From paolo at worknet.sii.it  Sun Nov 19 10:25:05 2006
From: paolo at worknet.sii.it (paolo pumilia)
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1970 00:59:59 -875900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] deleting mail from archive
Message-ID: <19700101005959.25758@worknet.sii.it>

Is there a proper way to delete a message from the mailing list archive?
Thank you for your help

Pol



From dag at fedayi.sonsorol.org  Sun Nov 19 10:25:05 2006
From: dag at fedayi.sonsorol.org (chris.dag)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 100 11:35:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] does mailman support anonymous lists?
Message-ID: <200001251635.LAA15555@fedayi.sonsorol.org>


Apologies if this was covered here recently, the python site search program
seems to be refusing connections at this time. 

I currently use MailMan on the bioperl/biopython/biojava.org server(s) 
and was thinking about using it for a new project...the problem being 
that some of the lists we will be needing should be anonymous in nature, ie the
sender and related header info needs to be removed or obfuscated.

Is it easy/possible to do this with mailman? I know perl but am
completly clueless with Python. As a workaround I may use Mailman for
the regular lists and have the anon-lists run via Lyris on a different
server.

Regards,
Chris 
dag at sonsorol.org







From lehmann at lsd.it  Sun Nov 19 10:25:05 2006
From: lehmann at lsd.it (LSD)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 100 17:41:29 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving hosts
Message-ID: <200001271641.RAA13342@scrondo.lsd.it>

Before I start: I'm  sorry if this is a FAQ or RTFM question, but I
didn't find this topic in this list's archive.

Which are the steps to do to MOVE a mailman full configuration (i.e.:
moving all the list hosted on a machine, user passwords, members lists,
etc.) from a machine to another?

I mean: I'm switching the machine that currently runs a 1.0rc3 mailman
installation with another new one that will run a v1.1 mailman release.

I tried to move the data directories (~mailman/data , ~mailman/lists, 
~mailman/archives, ~mailman/templates) from the old machine to the new
one but I was unsuccesful...

Any hint?
Where I'm wrong?

There is an Official Way to do this?
(It's not an upgrade to a newer version, it's a move).

Thanks in advance

--
Massimiliano Lehmann     

o------------------------------------------+---------------------------o
| mailto:lehmann at lsd.it                    | LSD  -  [L]ehmann         |
| http://www.lsd.it         (personal web) |           [S]oftware      |
| http://majjolone.lsd.it   (crazy web)    |             [D]evelopment |
o------------------------------------------+---------------------------o



From lehmann at lsd.it  Sun Nov 19 10:25:05 2006
From: lehmann at lsd.it (LSD)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 100 18:03:10 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Retrieving user's password
Message-ID: <200001271703.SAA13387@scrondo.lsd.it>

How can I retrieve all the passwords ov users subscribet to a list?

I want to associate a users's database (with apache/PHP/MySQL) to a 
mailing list, and allow list subscribers to modify their data.
To give users permission to modify the database record I want
to authenticahe them by a <e-mail address>/<Password> couple.

To make this task simple for my users, I want to use the same 
password they use to modify their maiman user profiles.

So, there is a way to get the passwords that list subscribers are
using (and use them later to manage the database access)?

Thanks in advance

--
Massimiliano Lehmann     
Milano - Italy
o------------------------------------------+---------------------------o
| mailto:lehmann at lsd.it                    | LSD  -  [L]ehmann         |
| http://www.lsd.it         (personal web) |           [S]oftware      |
| http://majjolone.lsd.it   (crazy web)    |             [D]evelopment |
o------------------------------------------+---------------------------o



From cday at permanently.misplaced.net  Sun Nov 19 10:25:05 2006
From: cday at permanently.misplaced.net (Chad Day)
Date: Thu, 18 May 100 17:15:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installation/permission troubles..
Message-ID: <200005182115.e4ILFea27179@permanently.misplaced.net>

This is with the 2.0 beta..

>From my httpd.conf:

<VirtualHost 208.246.80.201>
        ServerAdmin cday at beachassociates.com
        DocumentRoot /home/cday/public_html
        ServerName www.online-leagues.com
        ErrorLog /home/cday/error_log
        CustomLog /home/cday/access_log common
        ScriptAlias /mailman/ /home/mailman/cgi-bin/
        Alias /pipermail/ /home/mailman/archives/public/
</VirtualHost>


Check_perms:

[root at vw2 mailman-2.0beta2]# bin/check_perms 
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "bin/check_perms", line 35, in ?
    import paths
ImportError: No module named paths


and my apache error_log..

[Thu May 18 16:08:48 2000] [error] [client 24.28.207.66] Directory index forbidden by rule: /home/mailman/archives/public/
[Thu May 18 16:09:35 2000] [error] [client 24.28.207.66] Directory index forbidden by rule: /home/mailman/archives/public/
[Thu May 18 16:09:44 2000] [error] [client 24.28.207.66] attempt to invoke directory as script: /home/mailman/cgi-bin
[Thu May 18 16:09:57 2000] [error] [client 24.28.207.66] Directory index forbidden by rule: /home/mailman/archives/public/


Any ideas?  I'm totally stuck :(

Chad




From barry at digicool.com  Sun Nov 19 10:25:05 2006
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 09:25:05 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.0final bin/withlist patch for -r and -l available
References: <200012202355.PAA25995@utopia.west.sun.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1163928486.27980.mailman-users@python.org>

>>>>> "DM" == Dan Mick <Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM> writes:

    DM> Users of bin/withlist may have noticed that the -r and -l
    DM> options were broken in 2.0final; I just uploaded a SourceForge
    DM> patch to fix that (and I've asked Barry what he wants to do
    DM> process-wise with little nitty fixes like this).

In this particular case, there is definitely going to be a 2.0.1
release, both to fix bin/withlist and the recently discovered (by
myself and someone else simultaneously!) problem with qrunner.

In the future, we may just have a patches page with important
intra-release fixes.

-Barry





From webminerals2 at libero.it  Sun Nov 19 10:25:05 2006
From: webminerals2 at libero.it (webminerals)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 22.37.41 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] WebMinerals February Update
Message-ID: <E14T9cR-0002Tk-00@mail.python.org>

Greetings 

We manage a site about minerals and mineralogy specialized in fine Italian and European minerals. 

We Invite you to subscribe our email - update list  if interested in minerals and news about mineralogy.  
You can do this by replaying to this message with subscribe .  
IN CASE OF NO ANSWER YOU WILL BE AUTOMATICALLY REMOVED FROM OUR LIST .
 
Russian, Sardinian, Carrara minerals on WebMinerals

http://www.webmineralshop.com
 
In this month we present a nice selection of Minerals from Russia and old Soviet Republic,
 a page dedicated to Sardinia Minerals, some samples of a rare mineral: Brazilianite.
 Minerals from Carrara marble quarry and a selection of Calcite specimens.

 In the Informative Section a page dedicated to Mineralogical News in Italy and Europe that will be updated periodically and an article on Minerals from Carrara 
and the new Mineral Shows calendar Thanks

THANKS



From barry at digicool.com  Sun Nov 19 10:25:05 2006
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 09:25:05 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set gid didn't work?
References: <3B1803C4.505F86A7@auntminnie.com>
	<3B1BC8CC.DC9ABD6B@auntminnie.com>
	<3B1C2274.BEA6D8BF@auntminnie.com>
	<p05010402b742adbf0e95@[216.162.173.6]>
	<3B1D018C.5C726CDD@auntminnie.com>
	<15133.2541.238817.142161@anthem.wooz.org>
	<3B1D51A8.295291FF@auntminnie.com>
	<15133.24556.804957.762773@anthem.wooz.org>
	<3B1D6A9E.8D6C162F@auntminnie.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.2.1163928537.27980.mailman-users@python.org>

>>>>> "A" == Amanda  <arandall at auntminnie.com> writes:

    >> A> I couldn't get it to compile when I used
    >> --with-mail-gid=401.
    >> Hmm, what kind of error did you get?

    A> C&P from an earlier post I made to this list: Unfortunately...
    A> it apparently won't configure that way. When I run

    A>     ./configure --with-mail-gid=401 it says: [ No existing
    A> group found for the mail_wrapper program. This is the
    A> group that your mail delivery agent runs under, and uses to run
    A> filter programs. You might want to specify an existing group
    A> with the --with-mail-gid configure option.  Please see your
    A> mail agent's documentation, and the install file for details. ]

Oh darn, you're right.  I forgot that configure checks even numeric
gids with getgrgid().  So it /does/ complain if there's no entry in
/etc/group for the argument to --with-mail-gid.

    A> So, it ain't working. Mail goes into mailman and is never seen
    A> again.  Argh.

Did you set up the crontab?

-Barry



From bjf at samurai.com  Sun Nov 19 10:25:05 2006
From: bjf at samurai.com (Bryan Fullerton)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1969 23:32:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam directory
Message-ID: <a051010007c25efafd696@[140.230.20.2]>

Howdy,

Using Mailman 2.0.6, everything happy, working on moving over all my 
Majordomo lists.

Just noticed a bunch of files in the ~mailman/spam directory. Checked 
the archives, and it's not entirely clear but I'm guessing these are 
messages which have been "preserved for the site admin"? In this case 
it'd be entirely accidental, as they appear to be legitimate messages 
(though several with large attachments) which have already gone thru 
the lists in question - I'm guessing the list admin accidentally 
checked the preserve option.

Is there any 'proper' way to handle these files, or can I just nuke them?

Thanks,

Bryan

-- 
Bryan Fullerton               http://bryanfullerton.com/
Core Competence               uunet.ca!gts!cspace!bjf
Samurai Consulting
"You disgust me. Stupidity is dangerous." - Sanjuro



From dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us  Wed Nov  1 00:07:04 2006
From: dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us (Dan Young)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 15:07:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: Broken pipe on long mails
Message-ID: <4547D718.40406@mesd.k12.or.us>

Python version:  python-2.3.4-14.3
Mailman version: mailman-2.1.5.1-34.rhel4.5


I've been getting a broken pipe error when sending log mails (usually
triggered by those with attachments) through SMTPDirect (DELIVERY_MODULE
= 'Sendmail' delivers, but obviously is not preferred):

Oct 30 12:59:13 2006 (25556) Low level smtp error: [Errno 32] Broken
pipe, msgid: <4546679E.5030804 at mesd.k12.or.us>

Watching the local MTA, I can see the connection time out 300 seconds
after the connection is opened.

I'm able to trigger a similar broken pipe error trying to unpickle the
queued message (/root/test.pck is a copy of a pickled message):

# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/show_qfiles /root/test.pck  | head
====================> /root/test.pck
Return-Path: <dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us>
X-Original-To: xxxxxxx at xxxxxxxx.k12.or.us
Delivered-To: xxxxxxx at xxxxxxxx.k12.or.us
Received: from mrelay-i2.mesd.k12.or.us (mrelay-i2.mesd.k12.or.us
        [198.236.68.99])
        by xxxx.xxxxxxxxx.k12.or.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 205A370C0AF
        for <xxxxxxx at xxxxxxxx.k12.or.us>;
        Thu, 26 Oct 2006 15:29:39 -0700 (PDT)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/show_qfiles", line 74, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/show_qfiles", line 69, in main
    sys.stdout.write(fp.read())
IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe

I can suppress the IOError by patching show_qfiles:

21a22,24
> import signal
> signal.signal(signal.SIGPIPE, signal.SIG_DFL)
>

Any way I can get mailman to close the connection to the MTA, short of
"pass"ing on except IOError?

-- 
Dan Young <dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us>
Multnomah ESD - Technology Services
503-257-1562


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Nov  1 00:12:24 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 17:12:24 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails Not Being Delivered to All on List
In-Reply-To: <0b5501c6fd3f$d2347ce0$1400000a@reuben>
References: <PC1760200610311420070406f1bb6c1d@msapiro>
	<0b5501c6fd3f$d2347ce0$1400000a@reuben>
Message-ID: <p06240502c16d87c5e24f@[10.0.1.11]>

At 4:56 PM -0600 10/31/06, Bruce E. Breeding wrote:

>  I went to the URL and read it.  Thank you (and thank you for the other
>  comments in your email).   However, the FAQ merely said that it (leaving the
>  verification turned on) will "slow delivery rates from mailman to your MTA
>  significantly".

Correct.

>  Can you elaborate?  (I'm looking for something substantive to convey to my
>  web service provider.)

As one of the authors of a lot of material in that FAQ entry, I will 
try to answer your questions.

>  Is the delay minutes?  hours?  "it depends [on ___ ]"?

Officially, it depends.  But turning on DNS verification of e-mail 
addresses can cause messages that could be delivered in just a few 
seconds to take minutes or hours or more.  Do this across your whole 
list, and you might be able to go from handling thousands (or tens of 
thousands) of users with DNS verification turned off, to having 
difficulty handling hundreds of users with DNS verification turned on.

DNS verification is very, very bad news for proper operation of 
mailing lists.  So is anti-spam or anti-virus scanning.  All that 
kind of stuff should be done *ONLY* on message input into the mailing 
list system, and *NEVER* on message output from the mailing list 
system.

>  Does the delivery eventually take place, or, do some recipients really never
>  get the emails?

Maybe.  Maybe not.  But your throughput could go down substantially, 
and it may be impossible to reliably deliver mail to certain users.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov  1 02:49:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 17:49:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Interesting Goings ons...
In-Reply-To: <4547C88E.9030003@apl.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610311749080125f5706ee5@msapiro>

Adam Morehead wrote:

>We have mailman setup on our server... Everything is working fine except 
>one thing, all the approved emails are going to the recipients, all 
>denied are getting denied.. only one thing is bugging me... if theres a 
>pending request, we used to get a email letting us know that we have 
>email waiting for approval.. its not happening anymore.


Go to the list's General Options and make sure the email addresses for
owner and moderator (if any) are correct. Then scroll down to
Notifications and make sure admin_immed_notify is set to Yes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov  1 02:56:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 17:56:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails Not Being Delivered to All on List
In-Reply-To: <AFCFE06D-7EF4-45F7-BB59-AF81894FEB98@mac.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610311756120515f570706f@msapiro>

D. Alan Stewart wrote:
>
>I did not receive either of your responses to my "undelivered email"  
>thread.


I just noticed you have a mac.com address. There was a period of a
couple of weeks about a month ago during which mac.com was seriously
delaying and possibly losing mail. This appears to be over. We'll see
if you get this one directly.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From am at apl.washington.edu  Wed Nov  1 03:01:58 2006
From: am at apl.washington.edu (Adam Morehead)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:01:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Interesting Goings ons...
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610311749080125f5706ee5@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200610311749080125f5706ee5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45480016.5090509@apl.washington.edu>

Both are correct.... Next idea?

Adam


Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Adam Morehead wrote:
>
>  
>
>>We have mailman setup on our server... Everything is working fine except 
>>one thing, all the approved emails are going to the recipients, all 
>>denied are getting denied.. only one thing is bugging me... if theres a 
>>pending request, we used to get a email letting us know that we have 
>>email waiting for approval.. its not happening anymore.
>>    
>>
>
>
>Go to the list's General Options and make sure the email addresses for
>owner and moderator (if any) are correct. Then scroll down to
>Notifications and make sure admin_immed_notify is set to Yes.
>
>  
>



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov  1 03:07:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:07:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] undelivered mail, but only to some
In-Reply-To: <7A3F4C54-CB98-4369-88E8-71E06179A903@mac.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610311807140390f5706ff4@msapiro>

D. Alan Stewart wrote:
>
>> Sendmail claims it sent the mail to the users who didn't get it. I
>> recognize the symptoms say that Mailman is somehow involved, but I
>> don't see how.
>
>I recognize the difficulty of this particular problem.


I still stand by my assessment that in your case, Mailman is sending
the mail to the MTA, and the MTA is sending it on, and the loss must
occur downstream from there. That said, it is entirely possible that
the mail is lost/discarded because of something Mailman-specific in
the message. Things which could cause this problem might include the
listname-bounces at example.com envelope sender (can the domain of this
address be looked up in DNS?) or some Mailman specific header.

BTW, is bounce processing enabled for the list, and are there any
entries in Mailman's 'bounce' log for the recipients missing posts? At
least for debugging this, bounce_processing should be Yes and so
should bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner and
bounce_notify_owner_on_disable.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From BEBL.IT at InfoTechAccounting.com  Wed Nov  1 03:18:58 2006
From: BEBL.IT at InfoTechAccounting.com (Bruce E. Breeding)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:18:58 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails Not Being Delivered to All on List
References: <PC1760200610311420070406f1bb6c1d@msapiro>
	<0b5501c6fd3f$d2347ce0$1400000a@reuben>
	<p06240502c16d87c5e24f@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <0c6101c6fd5c$16cab600$1400000a@reuben>

Thank you, Brad, for the clarification of DNS verification and its effect on mailman.  

So far, my web service provider has resisted changing his configuration of mailman.  When I suggested Turning OFF DNS verification per this list suggestion, [and provided the FAQ link] to the web service provider, he replied as follows:

"The drawback of this configuration is that it will work poorly on systems supporting lists in several different mail domains. While Mailman handles virtual domains, it does not yet support having two distinct lists with the same name in different virtual domains, using the same Mailman installation.  Our mailservers are currently configured for optimal performance with mailman, this is all integrated by the Cpanel Program which is used to configure all domains."

Would you comment on this?  Is there some misinformation here?  
-- Bruce
I'm only a poor user (can you hear the violins playing?)   I just need a reliable email list ... free of course (not too picky, huh?)  I know I'm not his only user of mailman (making me wonder why his other customers aren't complaining)...

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov  1 03:23:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:23:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Interesting Goings ons...
In-Reply-To: <45480016.5090509@apl.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602006103118234606564f1acd9e@msapiro>

Adam Morehead wrote:

>Both are correct.... Next idea?

Are you getting the daily summary of moderator requests?

Look in Mailman's SMTP log? When a held post is processed, there should
be two or three entries in the SMTP log with Mailman generated
message-ids of the form
<mailman.nnnnn.nnnnnnnnn.nnnn.listname at example.com>. One of these is
the notice to the poster if respond_to_post_requests is Yes and has 1
recipient. Two are first, the moderator notice to listname-owner with
1 recipient, and then the resend to the owner(s) and moderator(s) with
number of recipients = the number of owners and moderators. Do you see
these in the log?	

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Nov  1 03:45:20 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:45:20 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails Not Being Delivered to All on List
In-Reply-To: <0c6101c6fd5c$16cab600$1400000a@reuben>
References: <PC1760200610311420070406f1bb6c1d@msapiro>
	<0b5501c6fd3f$d2347ce0$1400000a@reuben>
	<p06240502c16d87c5e24f@[10.0.1.11]>
	<0c6101c6fd5c$16cab600$1400000a@reuben>
Message-ID: <p06240500c16db97a88c5@[10.0.1.11]>

At 8:18 PM -0600 10/31/06, Bruce E. Breeding wrote:

>  "The drawback of this configuration is that it will work poorly on
>  systems supporting lists in several different mail domains.

How, exactly?  Turning off DNS verification within the MTA, *ONLY* 
for outgoing e-mail from the mailing list server, should speed up all 
lists on the server regardless of which domain they are hosted on.

>                                                              While
>  Mailman handles virtual domains, it does not yet support having
>  two distinct lists with the same name in different virtual domains,
>  using the same Mailman installation.

True, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the issue of turning 
off DNS verification within the MTA.

>  Our mailservers are currently configured for optimal performance
>  with mailman,

If he's doing DNS verification on mail that is outbound from the 
mailing list server, then it most definitely is *NOT* optimally 
configured.

>                this is all integrated by the Cpanel Program which
>  is used to configure all domains."

Ahh, there's the key.  He's totally freaking clueless, which explains 
why he's using cPanel.  So, he's spouting some complete garbage that 
is totally unrelated to the actual subject being discussed.  We can't 
really blame him for this, since he just doesn't know any better.

But you do know better, at least now you do.  And you can use this 
information to guide you in your choice of a new hosting provider 
that will actually be more clueful.

>  Would you comment on this?  Is there some misinformation here?

Yeah, it's pretty much all misinformation.

>  I'm only a poor user (can you hear the violins playing?)   I just
>  need a reliable email list ... free of course (not too picky, huh?)
>  I know I'm not his only user of mailman (making me wonder why his
>  other customers aren't complaining)...

Maybe they are complaining and you don't hear about it, or maybe they 
don't know what they could be getting and are willing to just settle 
for what they think is all they can get.

But now you know better.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From am at apl.washington.edu  Wed Nov  1 16:53:32 2006
From: am at apl.washington.edu (Adam Morehead)
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:53:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Interesting Goings ons...
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006103118234606564f1acd9e@msapiro>
References: <PC17602006103118234606564f1acd9e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4548C2FC.3060607@apl.washington.edu>

Tested this morning:

Nov 01 07:52:15 2006 (4952) 
<mailman.1140.1162396334.4950.allhands at apl.washingto
n.edu> smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.020 seconds
Nov 01 07:52:15 2006 (4952) 
<mailman.1141.1162396334.4950.allhands at apl.washingto
n.edu> smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.016 seconds
~

Adam


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Adam Morehead wrote:
> 
> 
>>Both are correct.... Next idea?
> 
> 
> Are you getting the daily summary of moderator requests?
> 
> Look in Mailman's SMTP log? When a held post is processed, there should
> be two or three entries in the SMTP log with Mailman generated
> message-ids of the form
> <mailman.nnnnn.nnnnnnnnn.nnnn.listname at example.com>. One of these is
> the notice to the poster if respond_to_post_requests is Yes and has 1
> recipient. Two are first, the moderator notice to listname-owner with
> 1 recipient, and then the resend to the owner(s) and moderator(s) with
> number of recipients = the number of owners and moderators. Do you see
> these in the log?	
> 


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Wed Nov  1 17:52:09 2006
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 10:52:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Doesn't Appear on Admin Page nor Listinfo Page
Message-ID: <200611011652.kA1Gq9Gs023295@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

I am testing Mailman on Ubuntu.  I created the site list.
Then I created a test list vm6mmtestlist1.  I do not remember how
I created it, but I think it was via the web.  I had a problem with
the Mailman configuration because I am using a virtual machine under
Ubuntu, and I was confused as to the name I should use in the
mm_cfg.py file - the name of the virtual machine or the name of the
host machine.  I corrected the config to point to the name of the
virtual machine.  I created a second test list vm6mmtestlist2.
There was nothing in the aliases file for Postfix, so I corrected the
problem and ran 

     bin/genaliases

That command generated the aliases for all three lists.

When I go to the web, the admin page and the Lists Overview pages
contain

     Mailman
     vm6mmtestlist2

The vm6mmtestlist1 list does not appear, and I do not know why.
The list has

     Privacy options...
          Advertised   Yes

and I believe that there are no config differences between lists 1 and 2
except for Sender filters in list2.

I assume that it was due to a misconfiguration when the list was
created (that is why I created list2), but I cannot determine how to
make the test list appear in these two web pages.  I have looked at FAQ
4.62 and 4.17, but neither seems to have a resolution to my problem.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Nov  1 18:11:06 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 11:11:06 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Doesn't Appear on Admin Page nor Listinfo
	Page
In-Reply-To: <200611011652.kA1Gq9Gs023295@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
References: <200611011652.kA1Gq9Gs023295@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611010911i698ea4e3o7d927374a661e02e@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/1/06, Barry Finkel <b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov> wrote:
> The vm6mmtestlist1 list does not appear, and I do not know why.
> The list has

The list doesn't show up because its URL doesn't match mailman's
current virtualhost URL. Try using fix_url on the list, and see if
that fixes the problem.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From scott at fyrenice.com  Wed Nov  1 18:57:55 2006
From: scott at fyrenice.com (Dr. Scott S. Jones)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 10:57:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reviving broken mailman ???
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061031135256040647ae8e8e@msapiro>
References: <6fbe3da00610311204r774add6bvf239efd018b6abfb@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC176020061031135256040647ae8e8e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061101175755.GA1400@xmission.com>

Mark: 

 
> Patrick has pretty much covered it. If you want another view, see
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-October/054114.html>.
> This is in the context of moving lists, but the directories and files
> would be the same.
> 
> However, I *think* you should be able to reinstall Mailman without
> moving your list data aside and get the same end result, but it would
> be good to back up your data anyway.
> 
> Also, re: Patrick's concern that the issue may be caused by something
> in the list data rather than Mailman itself is quite valid in general,
> but is almost certainly not the case with your specific issue.

Ok, I'll bide my time, I guess waiting for debian to come out and address
this apparent bug, relating to mailman and smtp-failure and debuglevel
reporting. I could wait a year, right, or it could be out today? 

In the meantime, I'll figure out how to back up my mailman installation per
Patrick's instructions. Is there any service that I could upload my list to,
and then have someone else send out to my list for me, for a price? Is that
option available? 


Scott



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Nov  1 19:01:41 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 12:01:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reviving broken mailman ???
In-Reply-To: <20061101175755.GA1400@xmission.com>
References: <6fbe3da00610311204r774add6bvf239efd018b6abfb@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC176020061031135256040647ae8e8e@msapiro>
	<20061101175755.GA1400@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611011001u50dbf48bl704322cb84d67f70@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/1/06, Dr. Scott S. Jones <scott at fyrenice.com> wrote:
> Ok, I'll bide my time, I guess waiting for debian to come out and address
> this apparent bug, relating to mailman and smtp-failure and debuglevel
> reporting. I could wait a year, right, or it could be out today?
If you're sure this is something in Debian, I assume you've filled out
a bug report about it, or at least checked bugs.debian.org?

> In the meantime, I'll figure out how to back up my mailman installation per
> Patrick's instructions. Is there any service that I could upload my list to,
> and then have someone else send out to my list for me, for a price? Is that
> option available?
Depending on what you mean by 'a price,' there are plenty of services
that offer mailman alongside a bunch of other stuff, probably for less
than $15/mo. I don't know that there are any dedicated mailman-only
offerings.

Personally, I have a VPS from vpsland.com (on which I run Debian,
heh.), which I could run mailman on; it's $11/mo.


-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From wash at wananchi.com  Wed Nov  1 15:31:27 2006
From: wash at wananchi.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 17:31:27 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade to mailman-2.1.9
Message-ID: <20061101143127.GD32577@ns2.wananchi.com>

Hi,

I have finally decided to upgrade from 2.1.5 -> 2.1.9, but I am being 
hesitant because in 2.1.5, there was a patch to integrate spam 
filtering into Mailman using SpamAssassin.

What are my options once I go to 2.1.9?



        cheers
       - wash 
+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Odhiambo Washington            		. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD (Nairobi, KE)  |
wash () WANANCHI ! com			. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, Loita St.,  |
GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI             |
GSM: (+254) 733 744 121			. (+254) 020 313 985 - 9             |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"  
						 --from a /. post


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Nov  1 19:26:30 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 12:26:30 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade to mailman-2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <20061101143127.GD32577@ns2.wananchi.com>
References: <20061101143127.GD32577@ns2.wananchi.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611011026r15673e24ufe8edb65c4507972@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/1/06, Odhiambo Washington <wash at wananchi.com> wrote:
> I have finally decided to upgrade from 2.1.5 -> 2.1.9, but I am being
> hesitant because in 2.1.5, there was a patch to integrate spam
> filtering into Mailman using SpamAssassin.
>
> What are my options once I go to 2.1.9?

The best option (and what you should be doing now) is filtering spam
at the MTA level; either flat-out rejecting spam there, or tagging it
in some way that you can later reject things at the Mailman level, if
need be.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Nov  2 02:55:03 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 19:55:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade to mailman-2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <20061101143127.GD32577@ns2.wananchi.com>
References: <20061101143127.GD32577@ns2.wananchi.com>
Message-ID: <p06240500c16effd4755c@[10.0.1.11]>

At 5:31 PM +0300 11/1/06, Odhiambo Washington wrote:

>  I have finally decided to upgrade from 2.1.5 -> 2.1.9, but I am being
>  hesitant because in 2.1.5, there was a patch to integrate spam
>  filtering into Mailman using SpamAssassin.

For one thing, you should be filtering using tools like SpamAssassin 
within your MTA and not within Mailman.  Regardless of which version 
of Mailman you use, you should not be integrating an anti-spam tool 
like SpamAssassin directly into it.

For another, versions of Mailman after 2.1.5 gave you the ability to 
filter on tags placed on the message earlier in the handling process 
(e.g., by SpamAssassin that is integrated into your MTA), and take 
hold/discard/reject/etc... decisions based on that information 
*before* the list looks at whether or not the sender is a member, 
etc....

This combination is extremely powerful.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Nov  2 04:11:50 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 12:11:50 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Upgrade to mailman-2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <20061101143127.GD32577@ns2.wananchi.com>
References: <20061101143127.GD32577@ns2.wananchi.com>
Message-ID: <87d5865yq1.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Odhiambo Washington writes:

 > I have finally decided to upgrade from 2.1.5 -> 2.1.9, but I am being 
 > hesitant because in 2.1.5, there was a patch to integrate spam 
 > filtering into Mailman using SpamAssassin.

First, look at doing the filtering in the MTA.

Second, look at the new filtering options in 2.1.9.

Third, if you absolutely must use something like jamesh's "patch",
AFAICS jamesh's method should still work for 2.1.9 without update.
It's not really a patch; it's a third party handler which you then
insert into the distribution pipeline.  Mailman architecture would
have to change an awful lot before that becomes unusable.


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  2 05:04:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 20:04:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Interesting Goings ons...
In-Reply-To: <4548C2FC.3060607@apl.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602006110120044301876b4a81a6@msapiro>

Adam Morehead wrote:

>Tested this morning:
>
>Nov 01 07:52:15 2006 (4952) 
><mailman.1140.1162396334.4950.allhands at apl.washingto
>n.edu> smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.020 seconds
>Nov 01 07:52:15 2006 (4952) 
><mailman.1141.1162396334.4950.allhands at apl.washingto
>n.edu> smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.016 seconds
>~


The above are sends of two messages (two different message IDs).
Message id <mailman.1140.1162396334.4950.allhands at apl.washington.edu>
is the poster notification and
<mailman.1141.1162396334.4950.allhands at apl.washington.edu> is the
owner notification. The owner nothfication is sent to
allhands-owner at apl.washington.edu and then resent to the owners and
moderators. If there is not a second entry in the smtp log for message
id <mailman.1141.1162396334.4950.allhands at apl.washington.edu>. There
is a problem with delivery of mail sent to
allhands-owner at apl.washington.edu.

What happens if you manually send mail to that address?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From wash at wananchi.com  Thu Nov  2 17:13:52 2006
From: wash at wananchi.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 19:13:52 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Creation via web UI
Message-ID: <20061102161352.GH13044@ns2.wananchi.com>

I am trying, for the 1st time in my life with Mailman, to create a list 
via the web UI. I have read all the available doco, and I believe that
I have configured my setup properly.
`check_perms -f` says no error found, yet when I try to create a list,
the web UI says:

"Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9 \
We're sorry, we hit a bug! \
Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of 
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, 
but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs"


Well the error itself from $Mailman_Home/logs/error is:

Nov 02 19:07:39 2006 admin(69413): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(69413): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----]
admin(69413): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(69413): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(69413):   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
admin(69413):     main()
admin(69413):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 56, in main
admin(69413):     process_request(doc, cgidata)
admin(69413):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 190, in process_request
admin(69413):     mlist.Create(listname, owner, pw, langs, emailhost)
admin(69413):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 493, in Create
admin(69413):     self.InitVars(name, admin, crypted_password)
admin(69413):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 404, in InitVars
admin(69413):     baseclass.InitVars(self)
admin(69413):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 96, in InitVars
admin(69413):     os.mkdir(self.archive_dir()+'.mbox', 02775)
admin(69413): OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/potopoto.mbox'
admin(69413): [----- Python Information -----]


So I am just wondering, why else should this happen? 




        cheers
       - wash 
+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Odhiambo Washington            		. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD (Nairobi, KE)  |
wash () WANANCHI ! com			. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, Loita St.,  |
GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI             |
GSM: (+254) 733 744 121			. (+254) 020 313 985 - 9             |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"  
						 --from a /. post


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  2 17:52:07 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 08:52:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Creation via web UI
In-Reply-To: <20061102161352.GH13044@ns2.wananchi.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061102085207087583e70452@msapiro>

Odhiambo Washington wrote:

>I am trying, for the 1st time in my life with Mailman, to create a list 
>via the web UI. I have read all the available doco, and I believe that
>I have configured my setup properly.
>`check_perms -f` says no error found,


There may be a problem with check_perms. We won't know for sure until
we find the immediate problem.


>yet when I try to create a list,
>the web UI says:
>
>"Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9 \
>We're sorry, we hit a bug! \
>Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of 
>traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, 
>but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs"
>
>
>Well the error itself from $Mailman_Home/logs/error is:
>
>Nov 02 19:07:39 2006 admin(69413): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>admin(69413): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----]
>admin(69413): [----- Traceback ------]
>admin(69413): Traceback (most recent call last):
>admin(69413):   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
>admin(69413):     main()
>admin(69413):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 56, in main
>admin(69413):     process_request(doc, cgidata)
>admin(69413):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 190, in process_request
>admin(69413):     mlist.Create(listname, owner, pw, langs, emailhost)
>admin(69413):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 493, in Create
>admin(69413):     self.InitVars(name, admin, crypted_password)
>admin(69413):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 404, in InitVars
>admin(69413):     baseclass.InitVars(self)
>admin(69413):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 96, in InitVars
>admin(69413):     os.mkdir(self.archive_dir()+'.mbox', 02775)
>admin(69413): OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/potopoto.mbox'
>admin(69413): [----- Python Information -----]


Verify that the wrapper /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/create has
permissions like

-rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman

The critical things are the SETGID bit and group 'mailman'.

Then verify that the directories /usr/local/mailman/,
/usr/local/mailman/archives/ and /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/
are all group 'mailman' and group writeable. Also, the directory
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/potopoto.mbox/ should not exist at
this point.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From wash at wananchi.com  Thu Nov  2 18:29:18 2006
From: wash at wananchi.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 20:29:18 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Creation via web UI
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061102085207087583e70452@msapiro>
References: <20061102161352.GH13044@ns2.wananchi.com>
	<PC176020061102085207087583e70452@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061102172918.GA60333@ns2.wananchi.com>

* On 02/11/06 08:52 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
| Odhiambo Washington wrote:
| 
| >I am trying, for the 1st time in my life with Mailman, to create a list 
| >via the web UI. I have read all the available doco, and I believe that
| >I have configured my setup properly.
| >`check_perms -f` says no error found,
| 
| 
| There may be a problem with check_perms. We won't know for sure until
| we find the immediate problem.

;-) It's the one that came with 2.1.9 (no local tweaks at all)


| >yet when I try to create a list,
| >the web UI says:
| >
| >"Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9 \
| >We're sorry, we hit a bug! \
| >Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of 
| >traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, 
| >but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs"
| >
| >
| >Well the error itself from $Mailman_Home/logs/error is:
| >
| >Nov 02 19:07:39 2006 admin(69413): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
| >admin(69413): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----]
| >admin(69413): [----- Traceback ------]
| >admin(69413): Traceback (most recent call last):
| >admin(69413):   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
| >admin(69413):     main()
| >admin(69413):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 56, in main
| >admin(69413):     process_request(doc, cgidata)
| >admin(69413):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 190, in process_request
| >admin(69413):     mlist.Create(listname, owner, pw, langs, emailhost)
| >admin(69413):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 493, in Create
| >admin(69413):     self.InitVars(name, admin, crypted_password)
| >admin(69413):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 404, in InitVars
| >admin(69413):     baseclass.InitVars(self)
| >admin(69413):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 96, in InitVars
| >admin(69413):     os.mkdir(self.archive_dir()+'.mbox', 02775)
| >admin(69413): OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/potopoto.mbox'
| >admin(69413): [----- Python Information -----]
| 
| 
| Verify that the wrapper /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/create has
| permissions like
| 
| -rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman
| 
| The critical things are the SETGID bit and group 'mailman'.

That was as expected.

| Then verify that the directories /usr/local/mailman/,
| /usr/local/mailman/archives/ and /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/
| are all group 'mailman' and group writeable.

/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/ was NOT group-writable. That was 
the problem.

Thank you so much. I am now 5 miles ahead.


        cheers
       - wash 
+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Odhiambo Washington            		. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD (Nairobi, KE)  |
wash () WANANCHI ! com			. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, Loita St.,  |
GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI             |
GSM: (+254) 733 744 121			. (+254) 020 313 985 - 9             |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"  
						 --from a /. post


From mailmanuserslist at gmail.com  Thu Nov  2 19:45:12 2006
From: mailmanuserslist at gmail.com (Rob Smithers)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 13:45:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive file not found
Message-ID: <d0ba7bf40611021045i1c6b2cf9x6c6797fd586cb305@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
      I'm hoping that one of you can shed some light on a problem that
I'm having with several established mailing lists.  I recently moved
all of my lists over to an SSL based connection.  After the move I
foud that none of my list archives, public and private, are available.
 The archive files are being updated, and if I go ingot the html files
on the server I can see all of the messages.  The problem is that
Mailman is trying to send all archive traffic to .php extensions when
all of the archive files have .html extensions.  If I try for a thread
view, which should, according to the index.html file launch
thread.html, Mailman tries to launch thread.php which doesn't exist.
      When I made the change to SSL I used the ./withlist -l -a -r
fix_url command.  The only change I made was to make the
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN setting https://... in the Defaults.py file.  I'm
not running Mod_Rewrite with Apache, and can't find any potential
culprits other than Mailman itself.  Does anyone know what might be
causing this?

I'm running Mailman version 2.1.9, with up to date Apache web server
software on an up to date Linux OS.  The standard permissions on my
archive files are:

drwxrwsr-x    2 mailman  mailman      4096 Sep 29 19:17 .
drwxrwsr-x   10 webuser   mailman      4096 Oct 16 03:27 ..
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      7289 Sep  8 04:15 000060.html
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      7154 Sep  8 23:30 000061.html
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      4040 Sep 15 18:32 000062.html
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      6229 Sep 22 20:38 000063.html
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      3144 Sep 24 17:46 000064.html
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      6778 Sep 29 19:17 000065.html
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      5586 Sep 29 19:17 000066.html
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      2476 Sep 29 19:17 author.html
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      2480 Sep 29 19:17 date.html
lrwxrwxrwx    1 mailman  mailman        11 Sep  2 17:45 index.html ->
thread.html
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      2474 Sep 29 19:17 subject.html
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      2637 Sep 29 19:17 thread.html

Thanks for your help,
Rob


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  2 21:15:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 12:15:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive file not found
In-Reply-To: <d0ba7bf40611021045i1c6b2cf9x6c6797fd586cb305@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061102121533073483e703df@msapiro>

Rob Smithers wrote:

>The problem is that
>Mailman is trying to send all archive traffic to .php extensions when
>all of the archive files have .html extensions.  If I try for a thread
>view, which should, according to the index.html file launch
>thread.html, Mailman tries to launch thread.php which doesn't exist.


So, are you saying that you go to
<http://example.com/mailman/private/thelist/> and you get to the
list's archive index file and there you find a 'thread' link to
<http://example.com/mailman/private/thelist/2006-November/thread.html>
and you try to go to that and get directed to the non-existent
<http://example.com/mailman/private/thelist/2006-November/thread.php>
instead?

If so, I think this must be due to some rewrite rule in your Apache
configuration.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  2 21:25:04 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 12:25:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Creation via web UI
In-Reply-To: <20061102172918.GA60333@ns2.wananchi.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611021225040328e97226cc@msapiro>

Odhiambo Washington wrote:

>* On 02/11/06 08:52 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>| 
>| There may be a problem with check_perms. We won't know for sure until
>| we find the immediate problem.
>
>;-) It's the one that came with 2.1.9 (no local tweaks at all)


And it appears to have a bug.


>/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/ was NOT group-writable. That was 
>the problem.


And it looks like check_perms neglects to check this. Thanks for the
report.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mailmanuserslist at gmail.com  Thu Nov  2 22:45:03 2006
From: mailmanuserslist at gmail.com (Rob Smithers)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 16:45:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive file not found
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061102121533073483e703df@msapiro>
References: <d0ba7bf40611021045i1c6b2cf9x6c6797fd586cb305@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC176020061102121533073483e703df@msapiro>
Message-ID: <d0ba7bf40611021345o5c95311ap1e3664a63d77042c@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/2/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Rob Smithers wrote:
>
> >The problem is that
> >Mailman is trying to send all archive traffic to .php extensions when
> >all of the archive files have .html extensions.  If I try for a thread
> >view, which should, according to the index.html file launch
> >thread.html, Mailman tries to launch thread.php which doesn't exist.
>
>
> So, are you saying that you go to
> <http://example.com/mailman/private/thelist/> and you get to the
> list's archive index file and there you find a 'thread' link to
> <http://example.com/mailman/private/thelist/2006-November/thread.html>
> and you try to go to that and get directed to the non-existent
> <http://example.com/mailman/private/thelist/2006-November/thread.php>
> instead?
>

Yes, that's what currently happens.

> If so, I think this must be due to some rewrite rule in your Apache
> configuration.
>

That's what I thought at first, but the rewrite modules is disabled in
the Apache config, and there are not even commented rewrite rules in
the httpd.conf.  I've checked through the directory structure, and
there are no .htaccess files enabling mod_rewrite, or setting any
rewrite rules.

Thanks,
Rob


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  2 23:38:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 14:38:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive file not found
In-Reply-To: <d0ba7bf40611021345o5c95311ap1e3664a63d77042c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611021438180718e9722860@msapiro>

Rob Smithers wrote:
>
>That's what I thought at first, but the rewrite modules is disabled in
>the Apache config, and there are not even commented rewrite rules in
>the httpd.conf.  I've checked through the directory structure, and
>there are no .htaccess files enabling mod_rewrite, or setting any
>rewrite rules.


What's in Apache's logs for these GETs?

Do you have any public archives? If so, do public archive URLs work?

You could do some tests. Try manually entering URLs in your browser like

<http://example.com/bad/path/to/thread.html>

<http://example.com/mailman/noscript/nolist/thread.html>

<http://example.com/mailman/admin/thelist/thread.html>

and see what happens.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sfeng at stanford.edu  Fri Nov  3 01:38:51 2006
From: sfeng at stanford.edu (Xueshan Feng)
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 16:38:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate attachements saved in archive directory?
Message-ID: <1162514331.23773.502.camel@hoss.stanford.edu>


Hello,

We are running mailman 2.1.8.

List's attachments seemed saved twice with different names in archives
directory. For example, one is "attachement.pdf", another one
"attachment-0001.pdf". The latter is the one used in the URL that
replaces the attachement in the oringal email. 

I thought this might have to do with email client, but I tested with Mac
MailApp and Linux Firfox, same behavior.

Any idea what caused this? 

Thanks!

Xueshan

-- 
------------------------------
Xueshan Feng (aka. Susan Feng)            

Shared Services, ITSS
Stanford University, CA 94305-3090

255 Panama St.
Room 157, Polya Hall
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4136





From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov  3 01:57:53 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 16:57:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate attachements saved in archive
	directory?
In-Reply-To: <1162514331.23773.502.camel@hoss.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020061102165753081283e70441@msapiro>

Xueshan Feng wrote:
>
>List's attachments seemed saved twice with different names in archives
>directory. For example, one is "attachement.pdf", another one
>"attachment-0001.pdf". The latter is the one used in the URL that
>replaces the attachement in the oringal email. 


Whether or not this happens depends on the setting of scrub_nondigest
and whether or not the list is digestable. If scrub_nondigest is Yes,
the original message is scrubbed and attachments are saved and
replaced by URLs in the original message. Then when the message is
archived and the digest (if any) is produced, there are no
attachments, only links.

If scrub_nondigest is No, the original message is sent with
attachments. The message is scrubbed for the archive and attachments
are saved and replaced by URLs. If the list is digestable, the message
is also put in the list's digest.mbox with attachments and when the
plain digest is produced, it is scrubbed again and duplicate copies of
the attachments are saved with different names and replaced by URLs.
Thus each saved attachment has two copies, one of which is referenced
by the archived message and the other of which is referenced by the
message in the plain digest.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dbrva at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  3 03:20:35 2006
From: dbrva at yahoo.com (David Boothe)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 18:20:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe Confirmation
In-Reply-To: <4547C88E.9030003@apl.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <20061103022035.4321.qmail@web55109.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

If I were to want to modify the subscribe request conformation email that Mailman creates so that it does NOT include any reference to a web page for processing the confirm, what file would I need to modify?  The following woudl be an example of what I woudl want to eliminate...
   
   
  ... Or visit this web page:
 http://mydomain.com/mailman/confirm/listname/92cb9079dd8eacb853e55329e89aed09b44a4386
   
   
   
  Thanks,
  ME


 
---------------------------------
Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low  PC-to-Phone call rates.

From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Fri Nov  3 03:41:32 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 18:41:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexpected Listname When Creating New List
In-Reply-To: <4542BDA6.8050706@ce.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <C16FEC5C.FA9C%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 10/27/06 6:17 PM, "Jon Forrest" <forrest at ce.berkeley.edu> wrote:

>> Are you sure your postfix aliases for Mailman are case sensitive. I
>> doubt it. Try mailing to test at mailman.example.com and
>> Test at mailman.example.com. I suspect both messages will get posted to
>> the list.
> 
> You are 100% right. I did NOT know this!! All these years
> of misinformation...

The current situation is that the local parts are not case sensitive almost
everywhere, but CAN be.  (Exim, for example, has a little-used option to
create case-sensitivity.  I don't speak Postfix, but a quick look at
"Postfix, The Definitive Guide" didn't show me an equivalent option.)

So (most) MTAs are stuck preserving case, particularly on messages relayed
to other MTAs, but comparing all lower case.  This seemingly was a political
thing in the mail standards meetings--there were still enough case-sensitive
sites to keep the status quo.

  --John




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov  3 03:58:53 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 18:58:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe Confirmation
In-Reply-To: <20061103022035.4321.qmail@web55109.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611021858530750c1fb5403@msapiro>

David Boothe wrote:

>If I were to want to modify the subscribe request conformation email that Mailman creates so that it does NOT include any reference to a web page for processing the confirm, what file would I need to modify?


The template is templates/en/verify.txt, but you don't actually change
this file. You make a modified version of this file and save it in one
of three other places depending on whether you want it to apply to a
list, all lists in one domain or all lists in the installation. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Nov  3 08:37:04 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 01:37:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How does mailman/mail/wrapper get created?
In-Reply-To: <OFB0A246D3.40A8FE3B-ON88257213.0004A6B4-88257213.00053F95@us.ibm.com>
References: <OFB0A246D3.40A8FE3B-ON88257213.0004A6B4-88257213.00053F95@us.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <p06240500c170a18e08ff@[10.0.1.11]>

At 5:57 PM -0700 10/25/06, Jon Ferraiolo wrote:

>  Looking at my installation, there is no mail/main/wrapper file.

That file only exists for Mailman 2.0.x.

>                                                                   Should
>  there be one?

Did you install Mailman 2.0.x?  If so, why?

Assuming you installed something more recent (like 2.1.9, which is 
the current version), then this program won't exist and any leftover 
aliases you may have from a previous 2.0.x installation won't work 
correctly.  In that case, the aliases need to be updated to work 
correctly with Mailman 2.1.x, as detailed in the instructions.

>                 Should it have been created by "make install" or is this
>  something that needs to be created manually?

I think you've probably got some sort of disconnect between your 
aliases and the program that was installed, but exactly why you have 
this situation is not clear.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From samarta at ci.uc.pt  Fri Nov  3 16:05:27 2006
From: samarta at ci.uc.pt (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o_S=E1_Marta?=)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 15:05:27 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OutgoingRunner hangs and messages not delivered to
	mail lists
Message-ID: <048f01c6ff59$7f4a0f10$ecc888c1@ci.uc.pt>

Greetings,

 

I have a problem with all of the mailing lists in our server.

Every day the qfiles/out directory gets hundreds of *.pck files not posted
to the mailing lists.

Manually, one can stop the master qrunner through mailmanctl stop and start
it again using mailmanctl start . But every time I ?ve done that there?s a
lock and I  manually removed the locks and issued the mailmanctl start .
That worked .

But , analysing the processes on the system I have noticed that are several
OutgoingRunner ?s , and the only way to get the messages posted to the
mailing lists is killing those processes.

 

 

All the archives works well ?that is: the messages are archived but not
posted ? I know that the archiving process is separated from posting.

It?s quite unusual because it?s the first time (3 weeks ago) this is
happening after several years of using mailman.

I am managing about a hundred of mailing lists with thousands of users.

I am using:

                        Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS release 4

Python 2.3.4

mailman 2.1.9

sendmail-8.13.1-2

 

I?ve searched through the mailman FAQ?s and I?ve not found any clue.

 

I made a shell script in order to minimize the problem when I am on weekends
and have inserted on the cron (running every 10 minutes):

#!/bin/sh

/home/mailman/bin/mailmanctl stop

ps auxwf|grep python

ps ax |grep python|grep -v grep|gawk -F " "  '{print $1;system("kill -9
"$1)}'

/home/mailman/bin/mailmanctl  -s start

 

 

I would appreciate any help on this issue,

 

   Joao Sa Marta

===============================|===================================

= Joao Sa Marta                |          Email: samarta at ci.uc.pt
<BLOCKED::mailto:samarta at ci.uc.pt>  =

= Centro de Informatica        |        Tel: 239 853178 (directo) =

= da Universidade de           |          Tel: 239 853170 (Geral) =

= Coimbra                      |                  Fax: 239 853189 =

= Apartado 3080                | http://www.uc.pt/pessoal/samarta =

= 3001-401 Coimbra             |                                  =

===============================|===================================

 



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov  3 16:43:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 07:43:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OutgoingRunner hangs and messages not delivered
	tomail lists
In-Reply-To: <048f01c6ff59$7f4a0f10$ecc888c1@ci.uc.pt>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611030743280281245e3415@msapiro>

Jo?o S? Marta wrote:

>Every day the qfiles/out directory gets hundreds of *.pck files not posted
>to the mailing lists.
>
>Manually, one can stop the master qrunner through mailmanctl stop and start
>it again using mailmanctl start . But every time I've done that there's a
>lock and I  manually removed the locks and issued the mailmanctl start .
>That worked .
>
>But , analysing the processes on the system I have noticed that are several
>OutgoingRunner's , and the only way to get the messages posted to the
>mailing lists is killing those processes.


That's because you are force starting Mailman when it hasn't fully
stopped. Lock files have a reason.

See FAQ
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp>.


>It's quite unusual because it's the first time (3 weeks ago) this is
>happening after several years of using mailman.


It appears there may be some queued message in the out/ queue causing a
problem. There may also be a problem between Mailman and Sendmail.
What is in Mailman's 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' logs and also
Sendmail's logs?

Is this a Debian Mailman and Python package? If so, see a couple of
threads in the mailman-users archive. One thread begins at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-October/053942.html>
(the link above) and is a single thread in the archive. The other
thread is broken in the archive because of many off-list replies, but
in subject sequence, it is those messages with subjects

[Mailman-Users] can't get mailman and exim4 talking on my debian 3.1
[Mailman-Users] slow processing
[Mailman-Users] Still can't send out from Mailman

If there is no problem evident in the smtp or smtp-failure logs, look
for an older message in the out/ queue and try moving it aside.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sfeng at stanford.edu  Fri Nov  3 19:30:38 2006
From: sfeng at stanford.edu (Xueshan Feng)
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 10:30:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate attachements saved in
	archive	directory?
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061102165753081283e70441@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061102165753081283e70441@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1162578638.23773.555.camel@hoss.stanford.edu>

On Thu, 2006-11-02 at 16:57 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Xueshan Feng wrote:
> >
> >List's attachments seemed saved twice with different names in archives
> >directory. For example, one is "attachement.pdf", another one
> >"attachment-0001.pdf". The latter is the one used in the URL that
> >replaces the attachement in the oringal email. 
> 
> 
> Whether or not this happens depends on the setting of scrub_nondigest
> and whether or not the list is digestable. If scrub_nondigest is Yes,
> the original message is scrubbed and attachments are saved and
> replaced by URLs in the original message. Then when the message is
> archived and the digest (if any) is produced, there are no
> attachments, only links.
> 
> If scrub_nondigest is No, the original message is sent with
> attachments. The message is scrubbed for the archive and attachments
> are saved and replaced by URLs. If the list is digestable, the message
> is also put in the list's digest.mbox with attachments and when the
> plain digest is produced, it is scrubbed again and duplicate copies of
> the attachments are saved with different names and replaced by URLs.
> Thus each saved attachment has two copies, one of which is referenced
> by the archived message and the other of which is referenced by the
> message in the plain digest.

Ah thanks for the clear explanation. I'd never thought this had to do
with list digest policy. Our system wide scrub_nodigest is False,
default value from installation, and my test list is digestable, like
most lists on our systems, hence the two copies of same attachment. If I
make mylist "nodigestable", then only one copy of attachement is saved. 

Xueshan
--



> 
-- 
------------------------------
Xueshan Feng (aka. Susan Feng)            

Shared Services, ITSS
Stanford University, CA 94305-3090

255 Panama St.
Room 157, Polya Hall
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4136





From mailmanuserslist at gmail.com  Fri Nov  3 19:49:47 2006
From: mailmanuserslist at gmail.com (Rob Smithers)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 13:49:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive file not found
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611021438180718e9722860@msapiro>
References: <d0ba7bf40611021345o5c95311ap1e3664a63d77042c@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200611021438180718e9722860@msapiro>
Message-ID: <d0ba7bf40611031049k7bbb7d16jaa1d3f820a53df42@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the help.  I found the problem.  We had a new mod_security
rule that was causing the problem.  I fixed the rule, and everything's
working again.

Thanks,
Rob

On 11/2/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Rob Smithers wrote:
> >
> >That's what I thought at first, but the rewrite modules is disabled in
> >the Apache config, and there are not even commented rewrite rules in
> >the httpd.conf.  I've checked through the directory structure, and
> >there are no .htaccess files enabling mod_rewrite, or setting any
> >rewrite rules.
>
>
> What's in Apache's logs for these GETs?
>
> Do you have any public archives? If so, do public archive URLs work?
>
> You could do some tests. Try manually entering URLs in your browser like
>
> <http://example.com/bad/path/to/thread.html>
>
> <http://example.com/mailman/noscript/nolist/thread.html>
>
> <http://example.com/mailman/admin/thelist/thread.html>
>
> and see what happens.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From szybalski at gmail.com  Fri Nov  3 20:01:58 2006
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 13:01:58 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610252053520437c9fec529@msapiro>
References: <804e5c70610251415m1381c549sadb25ae1fd35b7b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200610252053520437c9fec529@msapiro>
Message-ID: <804e5c70611031101n7c1afc63u96321cd80986eeb@mail.gmail.com>

> Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py

>
> >That is the file i patched SMTPDirect.py
> >
> > 57 class Connection:
> >     58     def __init__(self):
> >     59         self.__conn = None
> >     60
> >     61     def __connect(self):
> >     62         self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
> >     63         self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1)
> >     64         self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
> >     65         self.__numsessions=mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION


> >Is there a way to manually get the debug info from smtplib
> >(conversation with postfix) within this file?

Temporary SOLUTION.

After placing a bug report in debian, i have been given two files to
make debug information work.

"replacements for /usr/lib/python2.3/smtplib.py
and /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py that will enable
smtplib-debugging to work (you still have to patch SMTPDirect.py) "

I went in and renamed smtplib.py to smtplib.py.1
put the new file in and deleted smtplib.pyc ad smtplib.pyo
Then renamed /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py to Utils.py.1
(make sure its this one...there is at least 5 files called Utils.py)
put the new file in and deleted Utils.pyc and Utils.pyo

then
/etc/init.d/mailman restart
tail -f /var/log/mailman/error

while i was watching this i sent an emial to my testing group, etc.

Long story short. I replaced these files, removed pyc and pyo and
suddenly everything works like magic again. No more timeouts.
I'll try to get originals back in place and see how that works. I'll
keep you posted.

You can get the files from....
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=395493

Lukasz


> And, why they stop is what we're trying to figure out, and I can't tell
> you any more than I already have without additional information.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov  3 21:43:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 12:43:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70611031101n7c1afc63u96321cd80986eeb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006110312434909687e2a6179@msapiro>

Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
>
>After placing a bug report in debian, i have been given two files to
>make debug information work.
>
>"replacements for /usr/lib/python2.3/smtplib.py
>and /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py that will enable
>smtplib-debugging to work (you still have to patch SMTPDirect.py) "


I have looked at the bug report and the two files. I now see I was
mistaken in that I was all along looking at the Python 2.4 smtplib.py.
It turns out that Python 2.3 smtplib.py does write debug output to
stdout, not stderr which explains why you weren't seeing it.


>Long story short. I replaced these files, removed pyc and pyo and
>suddenly everything works like magic again. No more timeouts.
>I'll try to get originals back in place and see how that works. I'll
>keep you posted.


The change to Logging/Utils.py only affects logging of stderr, thus I
wouldn't expect this to affect the original issue.

It would be interesting to see the differences between the original
smtplib.py (now named smtplib.py.1) and the replacement. Do they only
add "import sys" and replace "print" with "print >> sys.stderr,", or
are there other changes. If there are no other changes, I am guessing
that the real problem is some kind of corruption in the .pyc or .pyo
files that you deleted.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mcjathan1 at xmission.com  Fri Nov  3 22:06:06 2006
From: mcjathan1 at xmission.com (mcjathan)
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 14:06:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman Installation - Can't Send Email to a
	New List
Message-ID: <454BAF3E.2040704@xmission.com>

Greetings,

We've recently installed Mailman 2.1.9 on our server. We have installed 
and configured Mailman in a postfix environment that is using mysql (See 
our server configuration at the bottom of this email).  We can create a 
new list, log onto the admin and user web interface.  However, we are 
unable to send email to a newly created list.  When we try to send an 
email, the send process hangs with the following message:

    Alert

    An error occurred while sending mail.  The mail server responded:
    <testlist at ourserver.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown
    in the local recipient table.  Please verify that your email address
    is correct in your Mail preference and try again.

We've followed the instructions in the pages below and still been unable 
to fix the problem:

    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.007.htp
    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp

We've noticed that the .../data/virtual-mailman.db does not populate.  
Running genaliases populates the .../data/aliases and 
...../data/aliases.db.  Adding a new list updates the aliases.db, but in 
either case, the virtual-mailman and virtual-mailman.db files have no data.

Questions:

1) Is our inability to send email to the lists due to the fact that the 
virtual db files aren't being populated?
2) If so, how do we fix this for our already created lists?
3) If so, how do we fix things so that lists we create from now on don't 
have this problem?

Regards,  Jeff
=====================
Server Configuration

Linux version 2.6.15-gentoo-r1

Postfix mail_version = 2.2.5
  -2 virtual domains
  -multiple aliases for each virtual domain

phpMyAdmin 2.7.0-pl1
  -MySQL 4.1.14-log

SquirrelMail version 1.4.5

Mailman version: 2.1.9 (not fully functional at this point)



From sli1que at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  3 22:26:13 2006
From: sli1que at yahoo.com (Eric Walker)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 13:26:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] debian/exim4/mailman
Message-ID: <20061103212613.21126.qmail@web60122.mail.yahoo.com>

hello all,
I am trying to setup a mailing list with mailman. Let me give you the background.
1) I have a website that I want to maintain a list for but my host provider charges me if I run a list through that hosts. So I figured  I could run a list from my own personal machine and use remote smtp to just mail to the list. ( its going to be an announcement list only). Well, I am running debian and home and I was able to finally get exim4 talking with gmail and use googles smtp servers. When I do a send from the command line I see the messages go out and they are received. The message has the headers and looks as if its comes from my websites domain. Now, I am trying to install mailman. I created a test list and here are a couple of things I can't do and need help.
1) When I create  a list I get a message saying a new list is created and here is the password to admin it etc. I follow the links in the page and it takes me back to my home machine and I see the mailman pages. I can admin and add users. I cannot send an email to the list though...
I have other things I need a different outlook on but lets get me mailing to the list first.

Thanks
Eric Walker

 
---------------------------------
Get your email and see which of your friends are online - Right on the  new Yahoo.com

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov  3 22:35:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 13:35:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman Installation - Can't Send Email to
	aNew List
In-Reply-To: <454BAF3E.2040704@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061103133510060948bdfccb@msapiro>

mcjathan wrote:
>
>1) Is our inability to send email to the lists due to the fact that the 
>virtual db files aren't being populated?


Maybe. Have you set up POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS in mm_cfg.py per
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html>


>2) If so, how do we fix this for our already created lists?


If the problem is that you havent set POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS,
fix it and then run bin/genaliases.


>3) If so, how do we fix things so that lists we create from now on don't 
>have this problem?


Assuming you have set "MTA = 'Postfix'" and properly set
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS in mm_cfg.py, list creation should
update data/aliases* and data/virtual-mailman* automatically.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Nov  4 00:23:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 15:23:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] debian/exim4/mailman
In-Reply-To: <20061103212613.21126.qmail@web60122.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061103152328059381502d6d@msapiro>

Eric Walker wrote:

>1) I have a website that I want to maintain a list for but my host provider charges me if I run a list through that hosts. So I figured  I could run a list from my own personal machine and use remote smtp to just mail to the list. ( its going to be an announcement list only). Well, I am running debian and home and I was able to finally get exim4 talking with gmail and use googles smtp servers.


Why not just let Exim connect directly to the recipients' smtp servers?


>When I do a send from the command line I see the messages go out and they are received. The message has the headers and looks as if its comes from my websites domain. Now, I am trying to install mailman. I created a test list and here are a couple of things I can't do and need help.
>1) When I create  a list I get a message saying a new list is created and here is the password to admin it etc. I follow the links in the page and it takes me back to my home machine and I see the mailman pages. I can admin and add users. I cannot send an email to the list though...


You have at least two choices:

You can use bin/inject to put a post into Mailman's 'in' queue, or you
can set up Exim/Mailman integration (see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.019.htp>),
and set up an MUA (email client) to post to the smtp server on
'localhost' and send posts through it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Nov  4 02:09:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 17:09:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] debian/exim4/mailman
In-Reply-To: <20061103232905.18539.qmail@web60123.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061103170903029661085dcb@msapiro>

Eric Walker wrote:
>
>1) how do I do that, not sure what you mean. Are you saying connect directly to my web hosts smtp server?
>2) not sure what your saying here. Are you saying set up a local smtp server and then through an email client post to the list and have the local server forward emails?


If you have both Exim and Mailman running on your own computer, Exim
can deliver incoming mail to mailman and Exim can accept outgoing mail
from Mailman and send it directly to the recipients without involving
an intermediate ISP.

If you don't have a domain name and/or a fixed IP address, it is a bit
tricky to get mail from the internet to your local Exim, but if all
you want to do is post to your own list from your own computer, it is
a simple matter to set up Exim to listen for SMTP connects on
'localhost' port 25, and it is also fairly simple to set up an MUA
(email client) to deliver its outgoing mail to the SMTP server on
'localhost' port 25. You then use this MUA
account/personality/whatever you call it to send a message to
'mylist at localhost' and Exim can accept it and deliver it to Mailman
for 'mylist'.

On the outbound side, Mailman delivers the mail to Exim on 'localhost'
port 25, and Exim sends it to the recipients directly via SMTP
connections to the recipient domains. Your web host's SMTP server is
not involved at all. This may or may not work for you because some
remote servers will not accept mail from an SMTP server (MTA) that
doesn't identify itself with a domain name that resolves to it's IP
address, so that can be a 'gotcha' if you don't have a fixed IP
address that has a reverse DNS entry.

Also, please include the list in replies.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sli1que at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  4 04:08:44 2006
From: sli1que at yahoo.com (Eric Walker)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 19:08:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] debian/exim4/mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061103170903029661085dcb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061104030844.40201.qmail@web60116.mail.yahoo.com>

Ok,
This is what I am proposing to do with your new information.
1) I found out that godaddy(my hosting account) does allow at least 250 free relays per day from my exisitng email accounts. Thats great for the time being. Well, If I can get the exim to send mails to it, then I think I have half the battle done. so help me with this first. I have been using the telnet smtp server 25 test.
everytime it says 553 Sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts.
But, I configure my local (MUA kmail) and all goes fine. what am I missing to get a telnet test connection. Also, I think I need to autheticate to this smtp server but not sure how on the telnet command line.

Thanks

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote: Eric Walker wrote:
>
>1) how do I do that, not sure what you mean. Are you saying connect directly to my web hosts smtp server?
>2) not sure what your saying here. Are you saying set up a local smtp server and then through an email client post to the list and have the local server forward emails?


If you have both Exim and Mailman running on your own computer, Exim
can deliver incoming mail to mailman and Exim can accept outgoing mail
from Mailman and send it directly to the recipients without involving
an intermediate ISP.

If you don't have a domain name and/or a fixed IP address, it is a bit
tricky to get mail from the internet to your local Exim, but if all
you want to do is post to your own list from your own computer, it is
a simple matter to set up Exim to listen for SMTP connects on
'localhost' port 25, and it is also fairly simple to set up an MUA
(email client) to deliver its outgoing mail to the SMTP server on
'localhost' port 25. You then use this MUA
account/personality/whatever you call it to send a message to
'mylist at localhost' and Exim can accept it and deliver it to Mailman
for 'mylist'.

On the outbound side, Mailman delivers the mail to Exim on 'localhost'
port 25, and Exim sends it to the recipients directly via SMTP
connections to the recipient domains. Your web host's SMTP server is
not involved at all. This may or may not work for you because some
remote servers will not accept mail from an SMTP server (MTA) that
doesn't identify itself with a domain name that resolves to it's IP
address, so that can be a 'gotcha' if you don't have a fixed IP
address that has a reverse DNS entry.

Also, please include the list in replies.

-- 
Mark Sapiro        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



 
---------------------------------
 Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. 

From ken at sunward.org  Sat Nov  4 05:10:17 2006
From: ken at sunward.org (Ken Winter)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 23:10:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] REvising text of "attachment scrubbed" message?
Message-ID: <00d901c6ffc7$25284a10$6703a8c0@Ken2K>

Is there any way to revise the text that is inserted into a message when an
attachment has been scrubbed?  Right now it reads something like:

 

-------------- next part --------------

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...

Name: Captions 1.ppt

Type: application/vnd.ms-powerpoint

Size: 3889664 bytes

Desc: not available

Url :
<http://lists.dhat.org/mailman/private/proto-announce/attachments/20061103/5
8c6b63a/attachment.ppt>
http://lists.dhat.org/mailman/private/proto-announce/attachments/20061103/59
c6b63a/attachment.ppt 

 

The idea of making attachments available as an optional download is great,
but my non-techie users are never going to understand the first two lines of
the preceding message.  If something has been "scrubbed", that would imply
to most people (or at least to me) that it has been washed away and is no
longer available.

 

~ TIA

~ Ken



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Nov  4 06:16:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 21:16:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] REvising text of "attachment scrubbed" message?
In-Reply-To: <00d901c6ffc7$25284a10$6703a8c0@Ken2K>
Message-ID: <PC176020061103211627073447433e79@msapiro>

Ken Winter wrote:

>Is there any way to revise the text that is inserted into a message when an
>attachment has been scrubbed?

Only by changing the actual message text which is coded in the
Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py module.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From joakim at nomell.se  Sun Nov  5 21:10:00 2006
From: joakim at nomell.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Joakim_N=F6mell?=)
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 21:10:00 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change -owner addresses
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0611052108530.22379@jajja.nomell.se>

Hi all. Due to huge spam problems I want to change all -owner aliases to 
something else. Is there any easy way to do this? I think I have seen this 
in the FAQ earlier but can't find it.

Thanks in advance.

-- 
__________________________________________________________________
Joakim N?mell     Tel  : 070 771 31 00     MSN  : joakim at nomell.nu
Unix engineer                              Web  : http://nomell.se
------------------------------------------------------------------


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Nov  5 22:50:04 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 13:50:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change -owner addresses
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0611052108530.22379@jajja.nomell.se>
Message-ID: <PC17602006110513500407342b633142@msapiro>

Joakim N?mell wrote:

>Hi all. Due to huge spam problems I want to change all -owner aliases to
>something else. Is there any easy way to do this? I think I have seen this
>in the FAQ earlier but can't find it.


I think it is necessary and sufficient to do this in the MTA.

If your MTA uses aliases, you could change the alias

listname-owner "|/path/to/mail/mailman owner listname"

to for example

listname-xyz "|/path/to/mail/mailman owner listname"

Then mail to listname-xyz will go to the owner and mail to
listname-owner will be undeliverable.

If you use Exim integrated with Mailman or something like that, this
would require other changes to the Exim router and transport for
Mailman.

This kind of MTA only change will not address the fact that various
notices will still be From: listname-owner, but I don't think that
will be a problem.

Note that if you use Postfix and generate aliases automatically, you'd
need to edit Mailman/MTA/Utils.py or running bin/genaliases will undo
your changes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ken at sunward.org  Sun Nov  5 23:27:31 2006
From: ken at sunward.org (Ken Winter)
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 17:27:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling password protection?
Message-ID: <00a301c70129$96a437e0$6703a8c0@Ken2K>

I need my ordinary members to be able to access scrubbed attachments without
having to remember a password.  If this means disabling end user password
protection across the whole list, I'm willing to do that.  If necessary, I'm
willing to do a workaround that assigns everybody the same password, which
would then be published to all members.  I can't find a way to do any of
these things, or anything else that would accomplish the goal.  Can anyone
tell me how?

 

I see that the mailman-users archive contains some seemingly relevant
materials (e.g. search on "disable passwords"); but these only deal with
subscribe / unsubscribe without pws, not with dowloading scrubbed
attachments.

 

~ TIA 

~ Ken



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov  6 01:26:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 16:26:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling password protection?
In-Reply-To: <00a301c70129$96a437e0$6703a8c0@Ken2K>
Message-ID: <PC17602006110516261804372b633027@msapiro>

Ken Winter wrote:

>I need my ordinary members to be able to access scrubbed attachments without
>having to remember a password.  If this means disabling end user password
>protection across the whole list, I'm willing to do that.  If necessary, I'm
>willing to do a workaround that assigns everybody the same password, which
>would then be published to all members.  I can't find a way to do any of
>these things, or anything else that would accomplish the goal.  Can anyone
>tell me how?


Why not just make your archives public?

Effectively, you do the same thing by not requiring password
authentication.

After making the archives public, you have to rebuild them with
"bin/arch --wipe" so that the URLs in the archive that are currently
of the form
<http://example.com/mailman/private/listname/attachments/...> become
of the form <http://example.com/pipermail/listname/attachments/...>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ken at sunward.org  Mon Nov  6 04:45:53 2006
From: ken at sunward.org (Ken Winter)
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 22:45:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling password protection?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006110516261804372b633027@msapiro>
Message-ID: <012a01c70156$106ea390$6703a8c0@Ken2K>

That works.  Thanks, Mark!

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 7:26 PM
To: Ken Winter; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Disabling password protection?

Ken Winter wrote:

>I need my ordinary members to be able to access scrubbed attachments
without
>having to remember a password.  If this means disabling end user password
>protection across the whole list, I'm willing to do that.  If necessary,
I'm
>willing to do a workaround that assigns everybody the same password, which
>would then be published to all members.  I can't find a way to do any of
>these things, or anything else that would accomplish the goal.  Can anyone
>tell me how?


Why not just make your archives public?

Effectively, you do the same thing by not requiring password
authentication.

After making the archives public, you have to rebuild them with
"bin/arch --wipe" so that the URLs in the archive that are currently
of the form
<http://example.com/mailman/private/listname/attachments/...> become
of the form <http://example.com/pipermail/listname/attachments/...>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan





From joakim at nomell.se  Mon Nov  6 10:23:00 2006
From: joakim at nomell.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Joakim_N=F6mell?=)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 10:23:00 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change -owner addresses
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006110513500407342b633142@msapiro>
References: <PC17602006110513500407342b633142@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0611061021350.13051@jajja.nomell.se>

On Sun, 5 Nov 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Joakim N?mell wrote:
>
>> Hi all. Due to huge spam problems I want to change all -owner aliases to
>> something else. Is there any easy way to do this? I think I have seen this
>> in the FAQ earlier but can't find it.
>
>
> If you use Exim integrated with Mailman or something like that, this
> would require other changes to the Exim router and transport for
> Mailman.
>
> This kind of MTA only change will not address the fact that various
> notices will still be From: listname-owner, but I don't think that
> will be a problem.

Yes, I'm using Exim with Mailman. What kind of changes do I need in this 
case?

-- 
__________________________________________________________________
Joakim N?mell     Tel  : 070 771 31 00     MSN  : joakim at nomell.nu
Unix engineer                              Web  : http://nomell.se
------------------------------------------------------------------


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov  6 17:34:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 08:34:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change -owner addresses
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0611061021350.13051@jajja.nomell.se>
Message-ID: <PC17602006110608341603439db26867@msapiro>

Joakim N?mell wrote:
>
>Yes, I'm using Exim with Mailman. What kind of changes do I need in this 
>case?


Assume you want to change '-owner' to '-xyz', and further assume you
have configured Exim more or less according to
<http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html>.

Then you have something in your router definition for Mailman that
looks like

    local_part_suffix_optional
    local_part_suffix = -admin     : \
                        -bounces   : -bounces+* : \
                        -confirm   : -confirm+* : \
                        -join      : -leave     : \
                        -owner    : -request   : \
                        -subscribe : -unsubscribe

Here you would just change '-owner' to '-xyz'

The trickier part is in your Mailman transport definition which
contains something like

    command = MM_WRAP \
              '${if def:local_part_suffix \
                    {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}} \
                    {post}}' \
              $local_part

which needs to be changed to

    command = MM_WRAP \
              '${if def:local_part_suffix \
                    {${sg{${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-xyz}{-owner}}} \
                    {-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}} \
                    {post}}' \
              $local_part


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From forrest at ce.berkeley.edu  Tue Nov  7 00:06:43 2006
From: forrest at ce.berkeley.edu (Jon Forrest)
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 15:06:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question About Case Handling in Non-member Filters
Message-ID: <454FC003.1070508@ce.berkeley.edu>

I woke up in the middle of the night last night
worried that my non-member filter regular expression
might not be completely correct.

I have

	^[^@]+@(.*\.)?example\.com$

and what I'm worried about is whether this will
match any permutation of upper and lowercase.
Python regular expressions are case sensitive,
I believe, but the function that does the matching
can be passed an flag that says to not be case
sensitive. I'm not sure where to look in the
Mailman source to find where this function is
called.

The FAQ says in Section 3.51 "Note also that the match
is case insensitive" but I'm still worried about this
since this is the only place I found any mention of
this. The installation and the administration manuals
don't mention it.

So, my question is are filter regular expressions case
sensitive?

Cordially,
-- 
Jon Forrest
forrest at ce.berkeley.edu
Computer Resources Manager
Civil and Environmental Engineering Dept.
305 Davis Hall
Univ. of Calif., Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720-1710
510-642-0904


From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Tue Nov  7 01:19:39 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 16:19:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] debian/exim4/mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061103152328059381502d6d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C175111B.FBEF%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 11/3/06 3:23 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

>> 1) I have a website that I want to maintain a list for but my host provider
>> charges me if I run a list through that hosts. So I figured  I could run a
>> list from my own personal machine and use remote smtp to just mail to the
>> list. ( its going to be an announcement list only). Well, I am running debian
>> and home and I was able to finally get exim4 talking with gmail and use
>> googles smtp servers.
> 
> 
> Why not just let Exim connect directly to the recipients' smtp servers?
> 

A. Terms of service.

B. Filters of two kinds (the first of which has two sub-kinds):

1.  List operator's ISP (a) blocks port 25 except to its own servers or (b)
diverts the traffic to its own servers

2.  Recipient's ISP does not accept incoming port 25 connections from the
list operator's IP block.

If list operator has static IP AND suitable reverse lookup for his domain,
and his ISP doesn't do static IP out of the same subnets that it does
dynamic, then #2 is much less likely--and so is the TOS problem.

  --John




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov  7 02:39:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:39:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question About Case Handling in Non-member
	Filters
In-Reply-To: <454FC003.1070508@ce.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611061739030609657ab2a4@msapiro>

Jon Forrest wrote:

>I woke up in the middle of the night last night
>worried that my non-member filter regular expression
>might not be completely correct.
>
>I have
>
>	^[^@]+@(.*\.)?example\.com$
>
>and what I'm worried about is whether this will
>match any permutation of upper and lowercase.


It will. All the regexps that can be entered on the list admin web
pages are compiled or searched with re.IGNORECASE.


>Python regular expressions are case sensitive,
>I believe, but the function that does the matching
>can be passed an flag that says to not be case
>sensitive. I'm not sure where to look in the
>Mailman source to find where this function is
>called.


If you do

grep -r _these_nonmembers Mailman/*

I'll bet you can figure out which hits are the ones you want.

Also, you can pass the IGNORECASE flag in the expression itself if you
really want the belt and suspenders.

	^(?i)[^@]+@(.*\.)?example\.com$


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov  7 03:23:25 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 18:23:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] debian/exim4/mailman
In-Reply-To: <20061104030844.40201.qmail@web60116.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006110618232505156e835e1c@msapiro>

Eric Walker wrote:

>This is what I am proposing to do with your new information.
>1) I found out that godaddy(my hosting account) does allow at least 250 free relays per day from my exisitng email accounts. Thats great for the time being. Well, If I can get the exim to send mails to it, then I think I have half the battle done. so help me with this first.


This will be a problem because you would be asking Exim to relay
outgoing mail via godaddy. You could probably figure out how to make
Exim do this and possibly even how to make exim authenticate as you to
godaddy, without which, godaddy almost certainly won't relay the mail,
but it seems to me that it would be simpler just to have Mailman use
godaddy as its outgoing SMTP server. You do this just by setting

SMTPHOST = 'example.com'

(or whatever the appropriate domain is) in mm_cfg.py. There is still
the authentication issue, but see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.072.htp>
for a link to information about that.



>I have been using the telnet smtp server 25 test.
>everytime it says 553 Sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts.
>But, I configure my local (MUA kmail) and all goes fine. what am I missing to get a telnet test connection. Also, I think I need to autheticate to this smtp server but not sure how on the telnet command line.


I'm not clear on what you are putting on the telnet command line and
where you see the 553, but if you want to connect and talk to a SMTP
server with telnet, you just do

telnet example.com 25

And then engage in an SMTP dialog with the server per RFC 2821
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2821.txt>. Authentication is an SMTP
extension described in RFC 2554 <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2554.txt>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From justbrits at comcast.net  Tue Nov  7 04:28:40 2006
From: justbrits at comcast.net (JB@comcast)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 21:28:40 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] debian/exim4/mailman
References: <PC17602006110618232505156e835e1c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <00cf01c7021c$d3df38f0$6701a8c0@actualshop>

Actually Mark, I was going to reply to Eric direct BUT:

<<but it seems to me that it would be simpler just to have Mailman use
godaddy as its outgoing SMTP server.>>

his WAY easier and more affordable solution would be to change Server Company to www.bluehost.com !!

I did and I cannot express how much GREATER a "deal" much less how much BETTER any assistance required is!!!

I was on godaddy and IRATE.  In doing some searching and with a comment from a fried found bluehost.  PRIOR to doing anything wrote their Tech Section witha question.  Answer in TWO hours!!!  Replied w/another ? !  Reply in less than an hour!!  Replied to #2 w/1 more ?  TEN MINUTES!!!  Now mind you, I had NOT done the change nor signed up for anything!!!  They were making NO money by answering me!!!

Outside of this mailman list, I have NOT encountered and service like it in close to two decades!!!

AMAZING!!!

The owner Matt Heaton / President Bluehost.com even has his own blog to keep his customers' up to date!?!?

Ed

Very Happy Bluehost Customer Ed

From rtbates at patmedia.net  Tue Nov  7 19:08:12 2006
From: rtbates at patmedia.net (Richard Bates)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 13:08:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie: Trying to set up mailman
Message-ID: <A4D79E38-52D9-4BB4-92DD-A34BA3611C23@patmedia.net>

I'm trying to setup mailman..
on a FreeBSD 6.1 system using
	postfix,qpopper,spamassassin,clamav,sasl2,tls



I got it all configured...
I can send/receive email to my standard users straight up.
when I try to send to the lists it logs the message
in my mailman website/pipermail/mylist
but doesn't deliver the mail.
the log & config files are below..

I searched the faq:
	and tried to do all the items in faq
	3.14. Troubleshooting: No mail going out to lists members

I did notice that the mailuser "nobody" is getting mail every
5 min I don't know what this message means...
=== startmessage
 From operator at mail2.telehouse.com  Tue Nov  7 12:55:00 2006
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on  
mail2.telehouse.com
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=3.5 tests=NO_RELAYS autolearn=no
         version=3.1.7
X-Original-To: operator
Delivered-To: operator at mail2.telehouse.com
From: operator at mail2.telehouse.com (Cron Daemon)
To: operator at mail2.telehouse.com
Subject: Cron <operator at mail2> /usr/libexec/save-entropy
X-Cron-Env: <SHELL=/bin/sh>
X-Cron-Env: <PATH=/etc:/bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin>
X-Cron-Env: <HOME=/>
X-Cron-Env: <LOGNAME=operator>
X-Cron-Env: <USER=operator>
Date: Tue,  7 Nov 2006 12:55:00 -0500 (EST)
X-Procmail-Status1: Global
X-Virus-Status: No
X-Virus-Checker-Version: clamassassin 1.2.3 with clamscan / ClamAV  
0.88.5/2035/Sun Oct 15 16:42:30 2006

YES: not found
===== end message


here is the log:
===== Start log
Nov  7 12:40:02 mail2 postfix/smtpd[70135]: disconnect from  
BatesiBook.mysite.com[172.18.1.139]
Nov  7 12:40:20 mail2 postfix/smtpd[70178]: connect from  
BatesiBook.mysite.com[172.18.1.139]
Nov  7 12:40:20 mail2 postfix/smtpd[70178]: setting up TLS connection  
from BatesiBook.mysite.com[172.18.1.139]
Nov  7 12:40:20 mail2 postfix/smtpd[70178]: TLS connection  
established from BatesiBook.mysite.com[172.18.1.139]: TLSv1 with  
cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)
Nov  7 12:40:20 mail2 postfix/smtpd[70178]: warning: SASL  
authentication failure: no user in db
Nov  7 12:40:20 mail2 postfix/smtpd[70178]: 814EA9581F:  
client=BatesiBook.mysite.com[172.18.1.139], sasl_method=PLAIN,  
sasl_username=bates at mail2.mysite.com
Nov  7 12:40:20 mail2 postfix/cleanup[70182]: 814EA9581F: message- 
id=<48867C96-BECB-41CF-8CF7-13D235726AB4 at mail2.mysite.com>
Nov  7 12:40:20 mail2 postfix/qmgr[70168]: 814EA9581F:  
from=<bates at mail2.mysite.com>, size=699, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Nov  7 12:40:20 mail2 postfix/local[70183]: 814EA9581F:  
to=<mylist at mail2.mysite.com>, relay=local, delay=0.21,  
delays=0.02/0.01/0/0.17, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to  
command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mylist)
Nov  7 12:40:20 mail2 postfix/qmgr[70168]: 814EA9581F: removed
===== End log

Here is the /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases file
===== BEgin aliases file
mailman-loop: /usr/local/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox

# STANZA START: mailman
# CREATED: Tue Nov  7 10:53:11 2006
mailman:             "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:   "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe  
mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe  
mailman"
# STANZA END: mailman

# STANZA START: mylist
# CREATED: Tue Nov  7 10:56:39 2006
mylist:             "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mylist"
mylist-admin:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mylist"
mylist-bounces:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mylist"
mylist-confirm:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mylist"
mylist-join:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join mylist"
mylist-leave:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave mylist"
mylist-owner:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mylist"
mylist-request:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mylist"
mylist-subscribe:   "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mylist"
mylist-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe  
mylist"
# STANZA END: mylist
===== End aliases file


here is teh /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
===== Start mm_cfg.py
# -*- python -*-

# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001,2002 by the Free Software  
Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or

###############################################
# Here's where we get the distributed defaults.

from Defaults import *

##################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
IMAGE_Logos = '/images/'
MTA = 'Postfix'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mail2.mysite.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mail2.mysite.com'
===== End mm_cfg.py



here is the postfix main.cf file
===== start postfix/main.cf
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
command_directory = /usr/local/sbin
daemon_directory = /usr/local/libexec/postfix
mail_owner = postfix
myhostname = mail2.mysite.com
mydomain = mail2.mysite.com
inet_interfaces = $myhostname, mail2.mysite.com
mydestination = $myhostname, mail2.mysite.com.$mydomain,  
mail2.mysite.com
mynetworks_style = host
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
home_mailbox = Mail/Mailbox
#mailbox_command = /usr/local/bin/procmail  -Y -f- /usr/local/etc/ 
procmailrc -a $DOMAIN
mailbox_command = /usr/local/bin/procmail  -Y  -a $DOMAIN
alias_maps = hash:/usr/local/etc/postfix/aliases
              hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

recipient_delimiter = +

sendmail_path = /usr/local/sbin/sendmail
newaliases_path = /usr/local/bin/newaliases
mailq_path = /usr/local/bin/mailq
setgid_group = maildrop
manpage_directory = /usr/local/man
sample_directory = /usr/local/etc/postfix
readme_directory = no
disable_vrfy_command = yes
mailbox_size_limit = 512000000
message_size_limit = 10485770
local_destination_concurrency_limit =  100
masquerade_domains = $mydomain
masquerade_exceptions = root


broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
smtpd_helo_required = yes
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8
smtpd_sender_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, reject_rhsbl_sender  
sbl.spamhaus.org
smtpd_client_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, reject_rbl_client  
sbl.spamhaus.org
smtpd_recipient_limit = 10000
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
# SASL SUPPORT FOR CLIENTS
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
smtpd_sasl_security_options = noanonymous
smtpd_sasl_local_domain = $myhostname
smtpd_recipient_restrictions =
         permit_sasl_authenticated,
         permit_mynetworks,
         reject_rhsbl_recipient sbl.spamhaus.org,
         reject_unauth_destination

# TLS SUPPORT
smtpd_tls_CAfile = /usr/local/etc/postfix/ssl/smtpd.pem
smtpd_tls_cert_file = /usr/local/etc/postfix/ssl/smtpd.pem
smtpd_tls_key_file = /usr/local/etc/postfix/ssl/smtpd.pem
smtpd_tls_loglevel = 1
smtpd_tls_received_header = yes
smtpd_tls_session_cache_timeout = 3600s
smtpd_use_tls = yes
smtp_tls_note_starttls_offer = yes
tls_random_source = dev:/dev/urandom
===== end postfix/main.cf


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov  7 21:36:53 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:36:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie: Trying to set up mailman
In-Reply-To: <A4D79E38-52D9-4BB4-92DD-A34BA3611C23@patmedia.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020061107123653018760686f30@msapiro>

Richard Bates wrote:
>
>I searched the faq:
>	and tried to do all the items in faq
>	3.14. Troubleshooting: No mail going out to lists members


Did you check that mailmanctl and all 8 qrunners are running. Your
symptom is that at least one of IncomingRunner and OutgoingRunner is
not running,


>I did notice that the mailuser "nobody" is getting mail every
>5 min I don't know what this message means...
>=== startmessage
> From operator at mail2.telehouse.com  Tue Nov  7 12:55:00 2006
>X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on  
>mail2.telehouse.com
>X-Spam-Level:
>X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=3.5 tests=NO_RELAYS autolearn=no
>         version=3.1.7
>X-Original-To: operator
>Delivered-To: operator at mail2.telehouse.com
>From: operator at mail2.telehouse.com (Cron Daemon)
>To: operator at mail2.telehouse.com
>Subject: Cron <operator at mail2> /usr/libexec/save-entropy
>X-Cron-Env: <SHELL=/bin/sh>
>X-Cron-Env: <PATH=/etc:/bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin>
>X-Cron-Env: <HOME=/>
>X-Cron-Env: <LOGNAME=operator>
>X-Cron-Env: <USER=operator>
>Date: Tue,  7 Nov 2006 12:55:00 -0500 (EST)
>X-Procmail-Status1: Global
>X-Virus-Status: No
>X-Virus-Checker-Version: clamassassin 1.2.3 with clamscan / ClamAV  
>0.88.5/2035/Sun Oct 15 16:42:30 2006
>
>YES: not found
>===== end message


If this is related to Mailman, it is because something is messed up in
mailman's crontab. The crontab sgould be running several daily jobs at
various times plus cron/gate_news every 5 minutes. Thes should run as
the mailman user. It looks like crond is trying to run the command
'YES' as 'operator'.
>Nov  7 12:40:20 mail2 postfix/local[70183]: 814EA9581F:  
>to=<mylist at mail2.mysite.com>, relay=local, delay=0.21,  
>delays=0.02/0.01/0/0.17, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to  
>command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mylist)


So the mail is being delivered properly to the wrapper.


>Here is the /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases file


So the aliases are OK


>here is teh /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
>===== Start mm_cfg.py
># -*- python -*-
>
># Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001,2002 by the Free Software  
>Foundation, Inc.
>#
># This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
>
>###############################################
># Here's where we get the distributed defaults.
>
>from Defaults import *
>
>##################################################
># Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
>IMAGE_Logos = '/images/'
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mail2.mysite.com'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mail2.mysite.com'
>===== End mm_cfg.py


If the above settings for DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_HOST are
different from what is in Defaults.py, you shold also have after the
two settings

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

although this is not your immediate problem.


Are the messaages in one of Mailman's queues? Do

ls -laR qfiles/

Are there any files of form tttt.tttt+xxxxxx.pck in any of the
subdirectories of qfiles/?. If so, in which subdirectory?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From will at serensoft.com  Tue Nov  7 22:10:09 2006
From: will at serensoft.com (will trillich)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 15:10:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to enable TRACEBACK for mailman "bug" errors?
Message-ID: <b84520740611071310h3f2a8e2g9ed7e2b955c40153@mail.gmail.com>

"""
Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly
inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman
error logs
"""

how do we ENABLE (uninhibit) the display of traceback in the web-page
error message?

i've googled for this and found several other folks who've asked the
question but they were actually asking other questions instead, most
of which were answered -- and not being a python wonk, i've not yet
managed to find the answer to THIS question.

we've just upgraded to mailman v2.1.9 and are having troubles tracking
down the snags.

all pointers welcome. thanks!

-- 
will trillich
"If we could first know where we are, and whither we are tending, we
could better judge what to do and how to do it." -- A. Lincoln


From Glen.Nielsen at sprint.com  Tue Nov  7 23:53:22 2006
From: Glen.Nielsen at sprint.com (Nielsen, Glen T [IT])
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 16:53:22 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subset of List Not Receiving Email -- Addresses in
	the subset vary with each message sent
Message-ID: <12B5F4A221E926489E57DA056C790CD50A775EE1@PDAWB15C.ad.sprint.com>

I recently inherited a couple Mailman lists and learned that emails sent to these lists are not arriving to all email addresses associated to each list (I polled various email addresses on each list after the fact).  What is particularly odd is that those not receiving an email message to a given list will vary each time an email is sent out. 

I've read the other posts about "Emails Not Being Delivered to All On List", but was not able to locate a fix in the thread.

Any help would be most appreciated.  Thanks.


Glen Nielsen


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov  8 01:18:35 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 16:18:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to enable TRACEBACK for mailman "bug"
	errors?
In-Reply-To: <b84520740611071310h3f2a8e2g9ed7e2b955c40153@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611071618350875547d174e@msapiro>

will trillich wrote:
>
>how do we ENABLE (uninhibit) the display of traceback in the web-page
>error message?


The traceback and associated error info should be in Mailman's 'error'
log. It is inhibited by default from display on the web page, because
it is often meaningless to the person who encounters the error and
could possibly reveal sensitive information.

To enable traceback display on web pages, find the line

STEALTH_MODE = 1

in scripts/driver, and change it to

STEALTH_MODE = 0

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From will at serensoft.com  Wed Nov  8 03:02:59 2006
From: will at serensoft.com (will trillich)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 20:02:59 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to enable TRACEBACK for mailman "bug"
	errors?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611071618350875547d174e@msapiro>
References: <b84520740611071310h3f2a8e2g9ed7e2b955c40153@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200611071618350875547d174e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <b84520740611071802t49726231t7713310c033d75ea@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/7/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> will trillich wrote:
> >how do we ENABLE (uninhibit) the display of traceback in the web-page
> >error message?
>
> The traceback and associated error info should be in Mailman's 'error'

i agree, it should. but it apparently isn't:

# ls -lt /var/log/mailman/error
-rw-r--r-- 1 list list 0 2006-11-06 12:31 /var/log/mailman/error
# ls -lt /var/log/mailman/ | head
total 524
-rw-rw-r-- 1 list     list   2032 2006-11-07 19:48 bounce
-rw-rw-r-- 1 list     list   4487 2006-11-07 19:48 smtp
-rw-rw-r-- 1 list     list  16727 2006-11-07 17:38 post
-rw-rw-r-- 1 list     list    155 2006-11-07 08:41 vette
-rw-rw-r-- 1 list     list    729 2006-11-07 06:25 qrunner
-rw-rw-r-- 1 list     list      0 2006-11-07 06:25 locks
-rw-rw-r-- 1 list     list      0 2006-11-07 06:25 smtp-failure
-rw-rw-r-- 1 list     list   5777 2006-11-07 06:04 smtp.1
-rw-rw-r-- 1 list     list    534 2006-11-06 22:41 smtp-failure.1

and this, just after a page-refresh with the bug bomb, and everything.

whatever the problem is, it's probably the same thing that's
interfering with error-log output (or perhaps, this being a debian
system, there's something else different going on).


> log. It is inhibited by default from display on the web page, because
> it is often meaningless to the person who encounters the error and
> could possibly reveal sensitive information.
>
> To enable traceback display on web pages, find the line
>
> STEALTH_MODE = 1
>
> in scripts/driver, and change it to
>
> STEALTH_MODE = 0

u da man! that did the trick -- thanks!

-- 
will trillich
"If we could first know where we are, and whither we are tending, we
could better judge what to do and how to do it." -- A. Lincoln


From will at serensoft.com  Wed Nov  8 03:10:13 2006
From: will at serensoft.com (will trillich)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 20:10:13 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to enable TRACEBACK for mailman "bug"
	errors?
In-Reply-To: <b84520740611071802t49726231t7713310c033d75ea@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b84520740611071310h3f2a8e2g9ed7e2b955c40153@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200611071618350875547d174e@msapiro>
	<b84520740611071802t49726231t7713310c033d75ea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b84520740611071810o2664edbq4cca8d9e3c56f95@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/7/06, will trillich <will at serensoft.com> wrote:
> On 11/7/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> > will trillich wrote:
> > >how do we ENABLE (uninhibit) the display of traceback in the web-page
> > >error message?
> >
> > The traceback and associated error info should be in Mailman's 'error'
>
> i agree, it should. but it apparently isn't:
>
> # ls -lt /var/log/mailman/error
> -rw-r--r-- 1 list list 0 2006-11-06 12:31 /var/log/mailman/error
> # ls -lt /var/log/mailman/ | head
> total 524
> -rw-rw-r-- 1 list     list   2032 2006-11-07 19:48 bounce
> -rw-rw-r-- 1 list     list   4487 2006-11-07 19:48 smtp
> -rw-rw-r-- 1 list     list  16727 2006-11-07 17:38 post
> -rw-rw-r-- 1 list     list    155 2006-11-07 08:41 vette
> -rw-rw-r-- 1 list     list    729 2006-11-07 06:25 qrunner
> -rw-rw-r-- 1 list     list      0 2006-11-07 06:25 locks
> -rw-rw-r-- 1 list     list      0 2006-11-07 06:25 smtp-failure
> -rw-rw-r-- 1 list     list   5777 2006-11-07 06:04 smtp.1
> -rw-rw-r-- 1 list     list    534 2006-11-06 22:41 smtp-failure.1
>
> and this, just after a page-refresh with the bug bomb, and everything.
>
> whatever the problem is, it's probably the same thing that's
> interfering with error-log output (or perhaps, this being a debian
> system, there's something else different going on).

indeed it was -- permissions/ownership on the log files themselves
were making apache very unhappy. not sure if this was upstream or
debian-specific, but all is harmonious in mailman-land again.

thanks!

-- 
will trillich
"If we could first know where we are, and whither we are tending, we
could better judge what to do and how to do it." -- A. Lincoln


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Nov  8 09:12:21 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:12:21 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to enable TRACEBACK for mailman
	"bug"	errors?
In-Reply-To: <b84520740611071810o2664edbq4cca8d9e3c56f95@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b84520740611071310h3f2a8e2g9ed7e2b955c40153@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200611071618350875547d174e@msapiro>
	<b84520740611071802t49726231t7713310c033d75ea@mail.gmail.com>
	<b84520740611071810o2664edbq4cca8d9e3c56f95@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87y7qmbbmi.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

will trillich writes:

 > indeed it was -- permissions/ownership on the log files themselves
 > were making apache very unhappy. not sure if this was upstream or
 > debian-specific, but all is harmonious in mailman-land again.

I suspect this is Debian-specific.  Debian has a generic "list" user
and a generic "list" group, rather than Mailman, Majordomo, etc
users/groups.  They also seem to leave the tree owned by root rather
than list (which is what is recommended by Mailman), and maybe forget
a few chmod g+s's on the directories.

I don't use Debian's package myself but ran into this on another
system.  I had assumed that since check_perms was quite unhappy that
the other admin had installed halfway from source, but I've just run a
quick dpkg -L mailman informs me that that indeed was a debian
install.  I'll have to check their bug db later.





From her at adm.ku.dk  Wed Nov  8 14:21:27 2006
From: her at adm.ku.dk (Henrik Rasmussen)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 14:21:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hit a but & use of VERP
Message-ID: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B653008D479F0@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>

I am new to Mailman. I currently have two problems.
 
I am using Mailman version 2.1.5 with Postfix. I am able to send mails
to the list and the mails are sent to the subscribers. According to the
mail headers in the mails received from Mailman, Mailman actually uses
Postfix.
 
Problem 1) I would like to use VERP. I have read a number of
documents[1] describing how to set this up, but so far Mailman is still
not using VERP, that is, the mails I receive from the list does not seem
to contain any VERPed headers.
 
[1]    http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html
        http://www.postfix.org/VERP_README.html
 
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-April/036006.html
        http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all
        /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.2.10/README_FILES/VERP_READM

Etc. Some describes to set VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = 1 (etc.) and other
documents explains to set VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes ,but I have tried
both in ~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py, without luck. I have also tried to
set it directly in Default.py (shame on me) but also no luck.
 
In postfix, I have tried to follow
/usr/share/doc/postfix-2.2.10/README_FILES/VERP_READM ,but I am not sure
where exactly to set up sendmail -V. I suppose it is mailman I should
set up to use sendmail -V, but I am not sure where. I figured it would
be in mm_cfg.py where I set SENDMAIL_CMD = '/usr/sbin/sendmail -V', but
this didn't do any difference. The default (in Defaults.py) is
SENDMAIL_CMD = '/usr/lib/sendmail' and I have tried this one with
SENDMAIL_CMD = '/usr/lib/sendmail -V' also. Still no luck.
 
I recall something about that VERP should have been set up at
installation, but isn't there any way to do it afterwards?
 
 
Problem 2) When calling
[mailmanserver]/mailman/options/nyhedsbrev/michaelh at telia.com
<mailto:mailserver/mailman/options/nyhedsbrev/michaelh at telia.com>  and
other addresses, I get the message
 
We're sorry, we hit a bug!
 
This is described a lot of places, but not exactly my problem (maybe I
just didn't find it yet).
 
The error log shows:
admin(1354): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(1354): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(1354):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in
run_main
admin(1354):     main()
admin(1354):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/options.py", line 239,
in main
admin(1354):     loginpage(mlist, doc, user, language)
admin(1354):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/options.py", line 813,
in loginpage
admin(1354):     table.AddRow([_("""In order to change your membership
option, you must
admin(1354):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py", line 89, in _
admin(1354):     return tns % dict
admin(1354): ValueError: unsupported format character 'p' (0x70) at
index 105
admin(1354): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(1354): sys.version     =   2.3.4 (#1, Feb  6 2006, 10:38:46)
[GCC 3.4.5 20051201 (Red Hat 3.4.5-2)]
admin(1354): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python
admin(1354): sys.prefix      =   /usr
admin(1354): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
admin(1354): sys.path        =   /usr
admin(1354): sys.platform    =   linux2

What do I do wrong?
 
Henrik


From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Wed Nov  8 15:28:45 2006
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 08:28:45 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hit a but & use of VERP
In-Reply-To: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B653008D479F0@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>
References: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B653008D479F0@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0611080820020.9259@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Henrik Rasmussen wrote:

> I am new to Mailman. I currently have two problems.
>
> I am using Mailman version 2.1.5 with Postfix. I am able to send mails
> to the list and the mails are sent to the subscribers. According to the
> mail headers in the mails received from Mailman, Mailman actually uses
> Postfix.
>
> Problem 1) I would like to use VERP. I have read a number of
> documents[1] describing how to set this up, but so far Mailman is still
> not using VERP, that is, the mails I receive from the list does not seem
> to contain any VERPed headers.
>
> [1]    http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html
>         http://www.postfix.org/VERP_README.html
>
> Etc. Some describes to set VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = 1 (etc.) and other
> documents explains to set VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes ,but I have tried
> both in ~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py, without luck. I have also tried to
> set it directly in Default.py (shame on me) but also no luck.

I'm not an "expert" but I believe VERP_CONFIRMATIONS only controls
confirmation messages like the parameter name implies. Controlling VERPing
of list messages is done by 1) turning on Personalization (non-digest
options in the interface; not sure how it's done for digests) which firt
requires OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION to be set in mm_cfg.py and 2)
setting the variables VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES and
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL in mm_cfg.py.

> In postfix, I have tried to follow
> /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.2.10/README_FILES/VERP_READM ,but I am not sure
> where exactly to set up sendmail -V. I suppose it is mailman I should
> set up to use sendmail -V, but I am not sure where. I figured it would
> be in mm_cfg.py where I set SENDMAIL_CMD = '/usr/sbin/sendmail -V', but
> this didn't do any difference. The default (in Defaults.py) is
> SENDMAIL_CMD = '/usr/lib/sendmail' and I have tried this one with
> SENDMAIL_CMD = '/usr/lib/sendmail -V' also. Still no luck.

I do VERP with Postfix and there was no need for me to change SENDMAIL_CMD
to make it work.

> I recall something about that VERP should have been set up at
> installation, but isn't there any way to do it afterwards?

No. I added VERP much later.

-- Larry Stone
   lstone19 at stonejongleux.com


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov  8 16:30:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 07:30:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hit a but & use of VERP
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0611080820020.9259@albion.stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611080730180187f4566f2d@msapiro>

Larry Stone wrote:

>On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Henrik Rasmussen wrote:
>
>> I am new to Mailman. I currently have two problems.
>>
>> I am using Mailman version 2.1.5 with Postfix. I am able to send mails
>> to the list and the mails are sent to the subscribers. According to the
>> mail headers in the mails received from Mailman, Mailman actually uses
>> Postfix.
>>
>> Problem 1) I would like to use VERP. I have read a number of
>> documents[1] describing how to set this up, but so far Mailman is still
>> not using VERP, that is, the mails I receive from the list does not seem
>> to contain any VERPed headers.
>>
>> [1]    http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html
>>         http://www.postfix.org/VERP_README.html
>>
>> Etc. Some describes to set VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = 1 (etc.) and other
>> documents explains to set VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes ,but I have tried
>> both in ~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py, without luck. I have also tried to
>> set it directly in Default.py (shame on me) but also no luck.
>
>I'm not an "expert" but I believe VERP_CONFIRMATIONS only controls
>confirmation messages like the parameter name implies.


Actually, in 2.1.5 VERP_CONFIRMATIONS only affects mass subscribe
invitations by putting the confirm token in the reply address and
creating a friendlier Subject:.


>Controlling VERPing
>of list messages is done by 1) turning on Personalization (non-digest
>options in the interface; not sure how it's done for digests) which firt
>requires OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION to be set in mm_cfg.py and 2)
>setting the variables VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES and
>VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL in mm_cfg.py.



You don't need to personalize the list in order to use VERP. Set

VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1

to VERP all regular deliveries, personalized or not.

Read the VERP section in Defaults.py for more information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov  8 16:44:07 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 07:44:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hit a but & use of VERP
In-Reply-To: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B653008D479F0@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611080744070750f4567155@msapiro>

Henrik Rasmussen wrote:
> 
>Problem 2) When calling
>[mailmanserver]/mailman/options/nyhedsbrev/michaelh at telia.com
><mailto:mailserver/mailman/options/nyhedsbrev/michaelh at telia.com>  and
>other addresses, I get the message
> 
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
> 
>This is described a lot of places, but not exactly my problem (maybe I
>just didn't find it yet).
> 
>The error log shows:
>admin(1354): [----- Traceback ------]
>admin(1354): Traceback (most recent call last):
>admin(1354):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in
>run_main
>admin(1354):     main()
>admin(1354):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/options.py", line 239,
>in main
>admin(1354):     loginpage(mlist, doc, user, language)
>admin(1354):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/options.py", line 813,
>in loginpage
>admin(1354):     table.AddRow([_("""In order to change your membership
>option, you must
>admin(1354):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py", line 89, in _
>admin(1354):     return tns % dict
>admin(1354): ValueError: unsupported format character 'p' (0x70) at
>index 105

The code at line 813 in options.py in the 2.1.5 base is (with some
lisnes wrapped)

    table.AddRow([_("""In order to change your membership option, you
must
    first log in by giving your %(extra)smembership password in the
section
    below.  If you don't remember your membership password, you can
have it
    emailed to you by clicking on the button below.  If you just want to
    unsubscribe from this list, click on the <em>Unsubscribe</em>
button and a
    confirmation message will be sent to you.

    <p><strong><em>Important:</em></strong> From this point on, you
must have
    cookies enabled in your browser, otherwise none of your changes
will take
    effect.
    """)])

It appears that this has been edited in the area of
"%(extra)smembership password" creating something like %(......)p

The "%(extra)s" is a substitution that receives either "email address
and " or nothing depending on context. It can be deleted, but it can't
be changed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jrc at clshost.com  Wed Nov  8 15:50:01 2006
From: jrc at clshost.com (J.R. Constance)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 07:50:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some of my Mailman mailing lists don't work but
	some do.
Message-ID: <2B17E6C5-7AFB-4E9E-B8FE-044190CD7DD5@clshost.com>

I recently transfered hosting from one service to another. I have  
hosted accounts that use mailman mailing lists. On one account  
(domain) all of the mailing lists seem to be functional. On the other  
at least one of the lists is not working. I can log in to the admin  
section and from that side everything looks normal. I can send  
invitations or subscribe members, and it tells me "Invitation sent  
successfully" or "Subscription successful" but no invitation or  
welcome emails are received.

I have successfully created a new list on this account and it works  
fine.

Any ideas what might be the problem, and what I can do to fix, short  
of recreating the mailing list(s) that are not working?

Thanks,

J.R. Constance



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov  8 17:54:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 08:54:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some of my Mailman mailing lists don't work
	butsome do.
In-Reply-To: <2B17E6C5-7AFB-4E9E-B8FE-044190CD7DD5@clshost.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611080854430640f456710b@msapiro>

J.R. Constance wrote:

>I recently transfered hosting from one service to another. I have  
>hosted accounts that use mailman mailing lists. On one account  
>(domain) all of the mailing lists seem to be functional. On the other  
>at least one of the lists is not working. I can log in to the admin  
>section and from that side everything looks normal. I can send  
>invitations or subscribe members, and it tells me "Invitation sent  
>successfully" or "Subscription successful" but no invitation or  
>welcome emails are received.
>
>I have successfully created a new list on this account and it works  
>fine.


Do you have access to the actual Mailman installation and log files? If
not, this is probably something your hosting provider needs to address.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From rustyw007 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  8 18:19:35 2006
From: rustyw007 at yahoo.com (Rusty Wilson)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 09:19:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error: namazu - can't open the index
Message-ID: <20061108171935.50279.qmail@web84014.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello,



I'm relatively new to Linux, and Mailman and never used namazu before - please accept my apolgies for any ignorance... :)



PROBLEM: namazu error - can't open the index



I set up namazu following the instructions in this post:

mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004_june/037580.html


but when i try to invoke the search from my archive page, i get the following error:

----
 Results:

References:  [  (can't open the index)  ]   

 No document matching your query.

 
----

I googled for some suggestions and came up with running the program from the command line - which works OK:


namazu foo /home/namazu/test1



so - i assume I have a permissions problem - am I on the right track?


This error seems to indicate that the CGI ran, but had error(s). Is this correct?

My .namazurc file is "stock" except I uncommented and changed 2 lines:
Index    /home/namazu
Template    /home/namazu/test1

The owner and group for namazu.cgi and .namazurc are mailman/mailman, and the permissions are: 755 for each.

the owner and group for /home/namazu/test1 are namazu/namazu and the permission on the directory is 775

Any suggestions on how to proceed would be appreciated. I chose this method since the author indicated no changes were required to mailman - and right now, thats important.

--Rusty




From sli1que at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  8 18:34:08 2006
From: sli1que at yahoo.com (Eric Walker)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 09:34:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] debian/exim4/mailman
In-Reply-To: <00cf01c7021c$d3df38f0$6701a8c0@actualshop>
Message-ID: <388267.42523.qm@web60125.mail.yahoo.com>

JB/Mark,
Well I sent in an email to godaddy. I asked them about the 533 error that stated host was not a valid host in the rcpt list. They said that error would show up when using a email client and I didn't have the button down that says outgoing smtp server needs authentication. So, I am assuming this means that my exim4 is not authenticating. How can I test to see if exim4 is sending out the correct info to authenticate. I do have the paswd and username in my passwd.client file.

Eric ...

"JB at comcast" <justbrits at comcast.net> wrote: Actually Mark, I was going to reply to Eric direct BUT:

<
godaddy as its outgoing SMTP server.>>

his WAY easier and more affordable solution would be to change Server Company to www.bluehost.com !!

I did and I cannot express how much GREATER a "deal" much less how much BETTER any assistance required is!!!

I was on godaddy and IRATE.  In doing some searching and with a comment from a fried found bluehost.  PRIOR to doing anything wrote their Tech Section witha question.  Answer in TWO hours!!!  Replied w/another ? !  Reply in less than an hour!!  Replied to #2 w/1 more ?  TEN MINUTES!!!  Now mind you, I had NOT done the change nor signed up for anything!!!  They were making NO money by answering me!!!

Outside of this mailman list, I have NOT encountered and service like it in close to two decades!!!

AMAZING!!!

The owner Matt Heaton / President Bluehost.com even has his own blog to keep his customers' up to date!?!?

Ed

Very Happy Bluehost Customer Ed
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/sli1que%40yahoo.com

Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp


 
---------------------------------
Sponsored Link

Try Netflix today! With plans starting at only $5.99 a month what are you waiting for?

From rustyw007 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  8 20:22:57 2006
From: rustyw007 at yahoo.com (Rusty Wilson)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:22:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error: namazu - can't open the index
Message-ID: <20061108192257.15623.qmail@web84010.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Solution.

OK - i was being dense. I checked all the permissions *except* those on the top-level user directory. Once I made it readable, the cgi could get to the index files.

--Rusty

----- Original Message ----
From: Rusty Wilson <rustyw007 at yahoo.com>
To: mailman-users at python.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2006 12:19:35 PM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error: namazu - can't open the index

Hello,

I'm relatively new to Linux, and Mailman and never used namazu before - please accept my apolgies for any ignorance... :)

PROBLEM: namazu error - can't open the index

I set up namazu following the instructions in this post:

mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004_june/037580.html

but when i try to invoke the search from my archive page, i get the following error:

----
 Results:
References:  [  (can't open the index)  ]   
 No document matching your query.
----

I googled for some suggestions and came up with running the program from the command line - which works OK:

namazu foo /home/namazu/test1

so - i assume I have a permissions problem - am I on the right track?

This error seems to indicate that the CGI ran, but had error(s). Is this correct?

My .namazurc file is "stock" except I uncommented and changed 2 lines:
Index    /home/namazu
Template    /home/namazu/test1

The owner and group for namazu.cgi and .namazurc are mailman/mailman, and the permissions are: 755 for each.

the owner and group for /home/namazu/test1 are namazu/namazu and the permission on the directory is 775

Any suggestions on how to proceed would be appreciated. I chose this method since the author indicated no changes were required to mailman - and right now, thats important.

--Rusty






From izghitu at gmail.com  Wed Nov  8 21:47:54 2006
From: izghitu at gmail.com (o omida parasita)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 22:47:54 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bcc problem
Message-ID: <948a6d890611081247j2e961fcfy9b7ee7c1c7a5370f@mail.gmail.com>

When using an email list if you send a message to the list but also do
a bcc /cc the message gets sent to moderator.

So for example we have a private list for internal use:

production at domain.com

If I (a member of the list) send a message to production at domain.com and I
bcc john at anotherdomain.com, the message gets sent to the moderator for
approval. I would get a message saying that the message is being held until
the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

Message has implicit destination


Is there a way to disable this feature/problem?


From szybalski at gmail.com  Wed Nov  8 23:55:08 2006
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:55:08 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70611031101n7c1afc63u96321cd80986eeb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <804e5c70610251415m1381c549sadb25ae1fd35b7b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200610252053520437c9fec529@msapiro>
	<804e5c70611031101n7c1afc63u96321cd80986eeb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <804e5c70611081455s22996a9cqa506c4be9f3ae1b7@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/3/06, Lukasz Szybalski <szybalski at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
> /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py
>
> >
> > >That is the file i patched SMTPDirect.py
> > >
> > > 57 class Connection:
> > >     58     def __init__(self):
> > >     59         self.__conn = None
> > >     60
> > >     61     def __connect(self):
> > >     62         self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
> > >     63         self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1)
> > >     64         self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
> > >     65         self.__numsessions=mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION
>
>
> > >Is there a way to manually get the debug info from smtplib
> > >(conversation with postfix) within this file?
>
> Temporary SOLUTION.
>
> After placing a bug report in debian, i have been given two files to
> make debug information work.
>
> "replacements for /usr/lib/python2.3/smtplib.py
> and /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py that will enable
> smtplib-debugging to work (you still have to patch SMTPDirect.py) "
>
> I went in and renamed smtplib.py to smtplib.py.1
> put the new file in and deleted smtplib.pyc ad smtplib.pyo
> Then renamed /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py to Utils.py.1
> (make sure its this one...there is at least 5 files called Utils.py)
> put the new file in and deleted Utils.pyc and Utils.pyo
>
> then
> /etc/init.d/mailman restart
> tail -f /var/log/mailman/error
>
> while i was watching this i sent an emial to my testing group, etc.
>
> Long story short. I replaced these files, removed pyc and pyo and
> suddenly everything works like magic again. No more timeouts.
> I'll try to get originals back in place and see how that works. I'll
> keep you posted.
>

I put the original smtplib.py file back in /varlib/python.3/smtplib.py
and i get the same problem again.

Nov 08 16:41:31 2006 (13973) Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file
descriptor, msgid:
<804e5c70611081443y26603704gdecfae9847cf64f4 at xxx.xxxx.com>
Nov 08 16:46:31 2006 (13973) delivery to xxxxx at xxx.com failed with
code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
Nov 08 16:46:31 2006 (13973) Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file
descriptor, msgid: <455209CD.20560.1BA7A89 at xxxx.xxxx.org>
Nov 08 16:46:31 2006 (13973) delivery to xxxx at xxxx.com failed with
code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor

So i guess i will stick with the file i got from debian bug

> You can get the files from....
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=395493

Lukasz

>
>
> > And, why they stop is what we're trying to figure out, and I can't tell
> > you any more than I already have without additional information.
> >
> > --
> > Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> > San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> >
>

-- 
Universal Information Crawler
http://uicrawler.sourceforge.net/


From ks at mocker.org  Thu Nov  9 00:30:29 2006
From: ks at mocker.org (Kyle Sexton)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:30:29 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] us-ascii problem with new install in Ubuntu
Message-ID: <a6b4a2050611081530t370ad738k29e26eba71cfe314@mail.gmail.com>

Fresh install of mailman on an Ubuntu system and I get the following error
cropping up when I send a message to a list:

Nov 08 17:04:20 2006 (9848) uncaught archiver exception at filepos: 0
Nov 08 17:04:20 2006 (9848) Uncaught runner exception: us-ascii
Nov 08 17:04:20 2006 (9848) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose
    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 214, in
ArchiveMail
    h.processUnixMailbox(f)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 564, in
processUnixMailbox
    m = mbox.next()
  File "mailbox.py", line 35, in next
    return self.factory(_Subfile(self.fp, start, stop))
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 89, in scrubber
    return mailbox.scrub(msg)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 109, in scrub
    return self._scrubber(self._mlist, msg)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 397, in process
    replace_payload_by_text(msg, sep.join(text), charset)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 175, in
replace_payload_by_text
    msg.set_payload(text, charset)
  File "email/Message.py", line 218, in set_payload
  File "email/Message.py", line 242, in set_charset
TypeError: us-ascii

Nov 08 17:04:20 2006 (9848) SHUNTING:
1163027059.0068791+6913355f30b2fbfb61b3469f5bf538e0ed51ecb9


It looks to me to be some type of language pack problem?  Mails go through
to the different users without issue, but never seem to make it to the
archive pool.  I ran fixperms and the issue still is happening.  Any advice
or things to check would be greatly appreciated.  Setup is
Ubuntu+postfix+mailman.

Thanks!

-- 
Kyle Sexton


From ifetch at du.edu  Wed Nov  8 23:55:45 2006
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 15:55:45 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9
Message-ID: <20061108134601.U40154@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

Hello,


    IT's (past) time to upgrade our mailman 2.1.5 installation to version 
2.1.9.

    I'm wondering whether anyone has experience they'd like to share going 
directly from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9 -- anything to be aware of in terms of the 
upgrade process or user experiences (meaning list administrators and 
members)?


    Looking at the upgrade and news files, and searching the archives, the 
only thing I have found is some references to "versions 2.1.6 through 
2.1.8 had issues, try 2.1.9".  I'm not sure exactly what issues 2.1.6 
through 2.1.8 had (besides security issues I see that 2.1.9 fixed).


Thanks for the help,

- Ivan.



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  9 01:44:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:44:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70611081455s22996a9cqa506c4be9f3ae1b7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611081644440703328c314b@msapiro>

Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
>
>I put the original smtplib.py file back in /varlib/python.3/smtplib.py
>and i get the same problem again.
>
>Nov 08 16:41:31 2006 (13973) Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file
>descriptor, msgid:
><804e5c70611081443y26603704gdecfae9847cf64f4 at xxx.xxxx.com>
>Nov 08 16:46:31 2006 (13973) delivery to xxxxx at xxx.com failed with
>code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
>Nov 08 16:46:31 2006 (13973) Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file
>descriptor, msgid: <455209CD.20560.1BA7A89 at xxxx.xxxx.org>
>Nov 08 16:46:31 2006 (13973) delivery to xxxx at xxxx.com failed with
>code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
>
>So i guess i will stick with the file i got from debian bug


Please post a 'diff -u' between the smtplib.py that works and the one
that doesn't work.

Lionel says that effectively all he changed in your working version was
writing debug output to sys.stderr instead of stdout, and when I
diffed Lionel's version with the Python 2.3.4 base, that's the only
change I saw, but there must be something else in your case or else
simply enabling the debug prints causes the problem because of the
writes to stdout, but then what caused the original problem.

In any case, I am very interested to see if there is some other change
in your original smtplib.py that is causing it to fail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From scott at fyrenice.com  Thu Nov  9 01:47:24 2006
From: scott at fyrenice.com (Dr. Scott S. Jones)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:47:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611081644440703328c314b@msapiro>
References: <804e5c70611081455s22996a9cqa506c4be9f3ae1b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200611081644440703328c314b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061109004724.GA5648@xmission.com>

Mark: 

I made the changes that Lucaz mentioned, with the two files, replacing them
and now mailman SEEMS to be working. It is sending out to my list anyway. 

I am not sure that everything is working quite right though so I'll test
things more, for a few days. 

Scott



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  9 01:55:53 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:55:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] debian/exim4/mailman
In-Reply-To: <388267.42523.qm@web60125.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061108165553062534333106@msapiro>

Eric Walker wrote:

>JB/Mark,
>Well I sent in an email to godaddy. I asked them about the 533 error that stated host was not a valid host in the rcpt list. They said that error would show up when using a email client and I didn't have the button down that says outgoing smtp server needs authentication. So, I am assuming this means that my exim4 is not authenticating. How can I test to see if exim4 is sending out the correct info to authenticate. I do have the paswd and username in my passwd.client file.


I don't offhand know the answer to your Exim authentication issue or
even if it's possible, but this is an Exim question and beyond the
scope of the Mailman-users list.

However, I urge you to forget about delivering from Mailman to Exim to
godaddy to end recipients. If you don't want to take Ed's (JB) advice,
then just set up Mailman to use godaddy directly as the outgoing SMTP
server. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.072.htp>
and the 'authentication' patch in the post linked from that FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  9 02:24:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:24:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] us-ascii problem with new install in Ubuntu
In-Reply-To: <a6b4a2050611081530t370ad738k29e26eba71cfe314@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006110817243702345eac69ef@msapiro>

Kyle Sexton wrote:

>Fresh install of mailman on an Ubuntu system and I get the following error
>cropping up when I send a message to a list:
>
>Nov 08 17:04:20 2006 (9848) uncaught archiver exception at filepos: 0
>Nov 08 17:04:20 2006 (9848) Uncaught runner exception: us-ascii
>Nov 08 17:04:20 2006 (9848) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose
>    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 214, in
>ArchiveMail
>    h.processUnixMailbox(f)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 564, in
>processUnixMailbox
>    m = mbox.next()
>  File "mailbox.py", line 35, in next
>    return self.factory(_Subfile(self.fp, start, stop))
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 89, in scrubber
>    return mailbox.scrub(msg)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 109, in scrub
>    return self._scrubber(self._mlist, msg)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 397, in process
>    replace_payload_by_text(msg, sep.join(text), charset)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 175, in
>replace_payload_by_text
>    msg.set_payload(text, charset)



What Mailman version is this? The above line numbers in Scrubber.py
don't match any of 2.1.7 (when replace_payload_by_text was first
introduced) through 2.1.9. It looks like your version has a modified
(by Ubuntu or ?) version of Scrubber.py that is broken - perhaps
somewhere charset is being assigned us-ascii instead of 'us-ascii'.


>  File "email/Message.py", line 218, in set_payload
>  File "email/Message.py", line 242, in set_charset
>TypeError: us-ascii
>
>Nov 08 17:04:20 2006 (9848) SHUNTING:
>1163027059.0068791+6913355f30b2fbfb61b3469f5bf538e0ed51ecb9
>
>
>It looks to me to be some type of language pack problem?  Mails go through
>to the different users without issue, but never seem to make it to the
>archive pool.


The messages are shunted. Once you resolve the Scrubber.py issue, you
can run bin/unshunt and they will be archived.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ks at mocker.org  Thu Nov  9 02:34:45 2006
From: ks at mocker.org (Kyle Sexton)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:34:45 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] us-ascii problem with new install in Ubuntu
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006110817243702345eac69ef@msapiro>
References: <a6b4a2050611081530t370ad738k29e26eba71cfe314@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602006110817243702345eac69ef@msapiro>
Message-ID: <a6b4a2050611081734h2daaff2dg5ea5683e3e37ee6d@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/8/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Kyle Sexton wrote:
>
> >Fresh install of mailman on an Ubuntu system and I get the following
> error
> >cropping up when I send a message to a list:
> >
> >Nov 08 17:04:20 2006 (9848) uncaught archiver exception at filepos: 0
> >Nov 08 17:04:20 2006 (9848) Uncaught runner exception: us-ascii
> >Nov 08 17:04:20 2006 (9848) Traceback (most recent call last):
> >  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
> >    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
> >  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
> >    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in
> _dispose
> >    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
> >  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 214, in
> >ArchiveMail
> >    h.processUnixMailbox(f)
> >  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 564, in
> >processUnixMailbox
> >    m = mbox.next()
> >  File "mailbox.py", line 35, in next
> >    return self.factory(_Subfile(self.fp, start, stop))
> >  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 89, in scrubber
> >    return mailbox.scrub(msg)
> >  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 109, in scrub
> >    return self._scrubber(self._mlist, msg)
> >  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 397, in
> process
> >    replace_payload_by_text(msg, sep.join(text), charset)
> >  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 175, in
> >replace_payload_by_text
> >    msg.set_payload(text, charset)
>
>
>
> What Mailman version is this? The above line numbers in Scrubber.py
> don't match any of 2.1.7 (when replace_payload_by_text was first
> introduced) through 2.1.9. It looks like your version has a modified
> (by Ubuntu or ?) version of Scrubber.py that is broken - perhaps
> somewhere charset is being assigned us-ascii instead of 'us-ascii'.
>
>
> >  File "email/Message.py", line 218, in set_payload
> >  File "email/Message.py", line 242, in set_charset
> >TypeError: us-ascii
> >
> >Nov 08 17:04:20 2006 (9848) SHUNTING:
> >1163027059.0068791+6913355f30b2fbfb61b3469f5bf538e0ed51ecb9
> >
> >
> >It looks to me to be some type of language pack problem?  Mails go
> through
> >to the different users without issue, but never seem to make it to the
> >archive pool.
>
>
> The messages are shunted. Once you resolve the Scrubber.py issue, you
> can run bin/unshunt and they will be archived.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
Mark,

Thanks for your reply.  I realized after I sent the message that I left of
the version numbers:

mailman 2.1.8-2ubuntu2

My Scrubber.py has a filesize of 22414, and I posted it here:
http://pastebin.ca/243930.  Is it possible that there is a language pack or
something missing in the default Ubuntu install that is a dependency I'm
missing?

-- 
Kyle Sexton


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  9 02:36:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:36:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bcc problem
In-Reply-To: <948a6d890611081247j2e961fcfy9b7ee7c1c7a5370f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611081736080906f10443f2@msapiro>

o omida parasita wrote:
>
>If I (a member of the list) send a message to production at domain.com and I
>bcc john at anotherdomain.com, the message gets sent to the moderator for
>approval. I would get a message saying that the message is being held until
>the list moderator can review it for approval.
>
>The reason it is being held:
>
>Message has implicit destination


Are you sure that's what's happening, and it's not the other way around.

In other words, if you send To: 'user' with Bcc: 'list' the implicit
destination hold is expected because the list address is not included
as a visible (To: or Cc:) recipient of the post. If you want such
posts to be accepted, set Privacy options...->Recipient
filters->require_explicit_destination to No.

On the other hand, if you send To: 'list' with Bcc: 'user' this should
be no different to Mailman than if you sent To: 'list' without the
Bcc:.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Nov  9 03:52:20 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 11:52:20 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  bcc problem
In-Reply-To: <948a6d890611081247j2e961fcfy9b7ee7c1c7a5370f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <948a6d890611081247j2e961fcfy9b7ee7c1c7a5370f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87bqnhmivv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

o omida parasita writes:

 > When using an email list if you send a message to the list but also do
 > a bcc /cc the message gets sent to moderator.

If the list address is in either To: or Cc:, it should not be
moderated for the reason "implicit destination".  Are you sure you are
actually sending "To:" the list?  Surely this only happens when you
"Bcc:" the list?

 > If I (a member of the list) send a message to production at domain.com
 > and I bcc john at anotherdomain.com, the message gets sent to the
 > moderator for approval.

Surely it's the other way around?  You sent to john and bcc'd
production, right?

 > Is there a way to disable this feature/problem?

Go to the Privacy Options>Recipient Filters screen in the list
administration interface.  Set require_explicit_destination to off.



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  9 04:37:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:37:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some of my Mailman mailing lists don't
	workbutsome do.
In-Reply-To: <20061108135842.9g2k3c4v0lp44w00@www.clshost.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006110819375605152703cb5b@msapiro>

jrc at clshost.com wrote:

>I do have access to the mailman installation and log files. Just not  
>sure exactly where to look, or what to look for.


First, I remembered there was a bug in Mailman prior to 2.1.9 which
would not send the welcome message from a mass subscribe unless the
list's send_welcome_message (on General Options) was Yes. This didn't
affect invitations as best as I can recall, although the
'notification' buttons on an 'invitatation' are really meaningless. No
notifications are sent with the invitation other than the invitation
itself, and when the user accepts the invitation, notifications ar
sent according to list settings

Could this be the problem?

If this is not the problem, then do I understand correctly that only
invitations and new subscriber welcome messages are missing, and only
for at least one 'old' list? Does this list function normally
otherwise?

If this is the case, Look in Mailman's 'error' and 'subscribe' logs.
Report any errors and also if the subscribes are logged or not. I
suspect they are logged and the user is subscribed even though the
welcome wasn't set. I'm leaning towards the above bug as the
explaination.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  9 05:10:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:10:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] us-ascii problem with new install in Ubuntu
In-Reply-To: <a6b4a2050611081734h2daaff2dg5ea5683e3e37ee6d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006110820103807815cea4113@msapiro>

Kyle Sexton wrote:
>
>Thanks for your reply.  I realized after I sent the message that I left of
>the version numbers:
>
>mailman 2.1.8-2ubuntu2
>
>My Scrubber.py has a filesize of 22414, and I posted it here:
>http://pastebin.ca/243930.  Is it possible that there is a language pack or
>something missing in the default Ubuntu install that is a dependency I'm
>missing?


I looked at your Scrubber.py and the changes I see from the 2.1.8/2.1.9
base don't look like they would cause this problem. I also don't think
it is any sort of missing dependency, but I don't know what it is.

If you send me off list or put somewhere on the web, the
/usr/lib/mailman/qfiles/shunt/1163027059.0068791+6913355f30b2fbfb61b3469f5bf538e0ed51ecb9.pck
file, I'll try to look at this further.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Nov  9 06:39:52 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 23:39:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <20061108134601.U40154@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
References: <20061108134601.U40154@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
Message-ID: <p06240500c1786dddc189@[10.0.1.11]>

At 3:55 PM -0700 11/8/06, Ivan Fetch wrote:

>     I'm wondering whether anyone has experience they'd like to share going
>  directly from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9 -- anything to be aware of in terms of the
>  upgrade process or user experiences (meaning list administrators and
>  members)?

I recently did the upgrade from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9 for the NTP Public 
Services Project at ntp.isc.org.  It really was this simple:

	1.  Stop the web server (apache)
	2.  Stop postfix
	3.  Stop Mailman
	4.  As root, do "cd /usr/ports/mail/mailman/; make install"
	5.  Start Mailman
	6.  Start postfix
	7.  Start the web server
	8.  Check everything to see that it all appears to be working
		correctly.

Of course, I actually used the FreeBSD port system to install Mailman 
as opposed to installing from source, but the concept is the same. 
And this is no guarantee that things will be this clean for you.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From vanhorn at whidbey.com  Thu Nov  9 08:46:01 2006
From: vanhorn at whidbey.com (G. Armour Van Horn)
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 23:46:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unkown user
Message-ID: <4552DCB9.60104@whidbey.com>

I did something, although I can't for the life of me figure out what, 
that broke my mailman server. The web presence hasn't changed any, user 
administration works fine, as does access to the archive, and monthly 
password reminders are being sent. But mail to any of the lists bounces. 
I'm running Mailman 2.1.9 (just upgraded from 2.1.8 tonight in hopes 
that the new install would fix the problem) with Postfix 2.2.5 on RedHat 
7.2.

The heart of the bounce is as follows:

<"|/home/mailman/mail/mailman post freehand"@domainvanhorn.com> (expanded from
    <freehand at virtuoso.domainvanhorn.com>): unknown user:
    "|/home/mailman/mail/mailman post freehand"


The aliases (/etc/postfix/aliases) for that list look like this:

## freehand mailing list
freehand:              "|/home/mailman/mail/mailman post freehand"
freehand-admin:        "|/home/mailman/mail/mailman admin freehand"
freehand-bounces:      "|/home/mailman/mail/mailman bounces freehand"
freehand-confirm:      "|/home/mailman/mail/mailman confirm freehand"
freehand-join:         "|/home/mailman/mail/mailman join freehand"
freehand-leave:        "|/home/mailman/mail/mailman leave freehand"
freehand-owner:        "|/home/mailman/mail/mailman owner freehand"
freehand-request:      "|/home/mailman/mail/mailman request freehand"
freehand-subscribe:    "|/home/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe freehand"
freehand-unsubscribe:  "|/home/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe freehand"

Does this suggest anything to anybody?

Van




-- 
----------------------------------------------------------
Sign up now for Quotes of the Day, a handful of quotations
on a theme delivered every morning.
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For photography, web design, hosting, and maintenance, 
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-----------------------------------------------------------



From her at adm.ku.dk  Thu Nov  9 09:58:24 2006
From: her at adm.ku.dk (Henrik Rasmussen)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 09:58:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hit a but & use of VERP
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611080730180187f4566f2d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B653008D47C76@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>

Thanks to both.

The trick with VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 did it. I thought that this
variable was for another purpose.

Henrik

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sendt: 8. november 2006 16:30
Til: Larry Stone; Henrik Rasmussen
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Emne: Re: [Mailman-Users] Hit a but & use of VERP

Larry Stone wrote:

>On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Henrik Rasmussen wrote:
>
>> I am new to Mailman. I currently have two problems.
>>
>> I am using Mailman version 2.1.5 with Postfix. I am able to send
mails
>> to the list and the mails are sent to the subscribers. According to
the
>> mail headers in the mails received from Mailman, Mailman actually
uses
>> Postfix.
>>
>> Problem 1) I would like to use VERP. I have read a number of
>> documents[1] describing how to set this up, but so far Mailman is
still
>> not using VERP, that is, the mails I receive from the list does not
seem
>> to contain any VERPed headers.
>>
>> [1]    http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html
>>         http://www.postfix.org/VERP_README.html
>>
>> Etc. Some describes to set VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = 1 (etc.) and other
>> documents explains to set VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes ,but I have tried
>> both in ~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py, without luck. I have also tried
to
>> set it directly in Default.py (shame on me) but also no luck.
>
>I'm not an "expert" but I believe VERP_CONFIRMATIONS only controls
>confirmation messages like the parameter name implies.


Actually, in 2.1.5 VERP_CONFIRMATIONS only affects mass subscribe
invitations by putting the confirm token in the reply address and
creating a friendlier Subject:.


>Controlling VERPing
>of list messages is done by 1) turning on Personalization (non-digest
>options in the interface; not sure how it's done for digests) which
firt
>requires OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION to be set in mm_cfg.py and
2)
>setting the variables VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES and
>VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL in mm_cfg.py.



You don't need to personalize the list in order to use VERP. Set

VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1

to VERP all regular deliveries, personalized or not.

Read the VERP section in Defaults.py for more information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From her at adm.ku.dk  Thu Nov  9 13:22:05 2006
From: her at adm.ku.dk (Henrik Rasmussen)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:22:05 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hit a but & use of VERP
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611080744070750f4567155@msapiro>
Message-ID: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B653008D47EAA@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>

It seems that the only files containing something like %(......)p is

[root at mailman lib]# find /usr/lib/mailman -name "*.py" -exec grep -H
")p" {} \; 

/usr/lib/mailman/tests/test_handlers.py:        mlist.msg_header =
'%(real_name)p header\n'
/usr/lib/mailman/tests/test_handlers.py:        mlist.msg_footer =
'%(real_name)p footer'
/usr/lib/mailman/tests/test_handlers.py:%(real_name)p header
/usr/lib/mailman/tests/test_handlers.py:%(real_name)p footer""")

I most likely read the error message wrong, but according to the error
message to me it seems it is line 105 in the file i18n.py that would
contain the unexpected format character 'p', but it doesn not contain
anything with )p

However, changing "your %(extra)smembership" to "your %(extra)s
membership" in the file /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/options.py have
solved the problem. Se I guess it must have been the p in smembership
that it was referring to.

Thanks for pointing out where to look.

Henrik

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sendt: 8. november 2006 16:44
Til: Henrik Rasmussen; mailman-users at python.org
Emne: Re: [Mailman-Users] Hit a but & use of VERP

Henrik Rasmussen wrote:
> 
>Problem 2) When calling
>[mailmanserver]/mailman/options/nyhedsbrev/michaelh at telia.com
><mailto:mailserver/mailman/options/nyhedsbrev/michaelh at telia.com>  and
>other addresses, I get the message
> 
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
> 
>This is described a lot of places, but not exactly my problem (maybe I
>just didn't find it yet).
> 
>The error log shows:
>admin(1354): [----- Traceback ------]
>admin(1354): Traceback (most recent call last):
>admin(1354):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in
>run_main
>admin(1354):     main()
>admin(1354):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/options.py", line
239,
>in main
>admin(1354):     loginpage(mlist, doc, user, language)
>admin(1354):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/options.py", line
813,
>in loginpage
>admin(1354):     table.AddRow([_("""In order to change your membership
>option, you must
>admin(1354):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py", line 89, in _
>admin(1354):     return tns % dict
>admin(1354): ValueError: unsupported format character 'p' (0x70) at
>index 105

The code at line 813 in options.py in the 2.1.5 base is (with some
lisnes wrapped)

    table.AddRow([_("""In order to change your membership option, you
must
    first log in by giving your %(extra)smembership password in the
section
    below.  If you don't remember your membership password, you can
have it
    emailed to you by clicking on the button below.  If you just want to
    unsubscribe from this list, click on the <em>Unsubscribe</em>
button and a
    confirmation message will be sent to you.

    <p><strong><em>Important:</em></strong> From this point on, you
must have
    cookies enabled in your browser, otherwise none of your changes
will take
    effect.
    """)])

It appears that this has been edited in the area of
"%(extra)smembership password" creating something like %(......)p

The "%(extra)s" is a substitution that receives either "email address
and " or nothing depending on context. It can be deleted, but it can't
be changed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From rtbates at patmedia.net  Thu Nov  9 13:26:37 2006
From: rtbates at patmedia.net (Richard Bates)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 07:26:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie: Trying to set up mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061107123653018760686f30@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061107123653018760686f30@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5F328DB1-2099-4347-A72E-14F6D92E4676@patmedia.net>

I had all 8 qrunners running.

I decided to re-install the whole box.
This time it worked.
	I used all the FreeBSD Ports installs.
	But I had to go back to the
	mailman install and reconfigure it
	to take messages as "mailman"
	it was expecting "nobody"

	Once I did that it seems to be working.

Thanks for your help.
Rich Bates

On Nov 7, 2006, at 3:36 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Richard Bates wrote:
>>
>> I searched the faq:
>> 	and tried to do all the items in faq
>> 	3.14. Troubleshooting: No mail going out to lists members
>
>
> Did you check that mailmanctl and all 8 qrunners are running. Your
> symptom is that at least one of IncomingRunner and OutgoingRunner is
> not running,
>
>
>> I did notice that the mailuser "nobody" is getting mail every
>> 5 min I don't know what this message means...
>> === startmessage
>> From operator at mail2.telehouse.com  Tue Nov  7 12:55:00 2006
>> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on
>> mail2.telehouse.com
>> X-Spam-Level:
>> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=3.5 tests=NO_RELAYS  
>> autolearn=no
>>         version=3.1.7
>> X-Original-To: operator
>> Delivered-To: operator at mail2.telehouse.com
>> From: operator at mail2.telehouse.com (Cron Daemon)
>> To: operator at mail2.telehouse.com
>> Subject: Cron <operator at mail2> /usr/libexec/save-entropy
>> X-Cron-Env: <SHELL=/bin/sh>
>> X-Cron-Env: <PATH=/etc:/bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin>
>> X-Cron-Env: <HOME=/>
>> X-Cron-Env: <LOGNAME=operator>
>> X-Cron-Env: <USER=operator>
>> Date: Tue,  7 Nov 2006 12:55:00 -0500 (EST)
>> X-Procmail-Status1: Global
>> X-Virus-Status: No
>> X-Virus-Checker-Version: clamassassin 1.2.3 with clamscan / ClamAV
>> 0.88.5/2035/Sun Oct 15 16:42:30 2006
>>
>> YES: not found
>> ===== end message
>
>
> If this is related to Mailman, it is because something is messed up in
> mailman's crontab. The crontab sgould be running several daily jobs at
> various times plus cron/gate_news every 5 minutes. Thes should run as
> the mailman user. It looks like crond is trying to run the command
> 'YES' as 'operator'.
>> Nov  7 12:40:20 mail2 postfix/local[70183]: 814EA9581F:
>> to=<mylist at mail2.mysite.com>, relay=local, delay=0.21,
>> delays=0.02/0.01/0/0.17, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to
>> command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mylist)
>
>
> So the mail is being delivered properly to the wrapper.
>
>
>> Here is the /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases file
>
>
> So the aliases are OK
>
>
>> here is teh /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
>> ===== Start mm_cfg.py
>> # -*- python -*-
>>
>> # Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001,2002 by the Free Software
>> Foundation, Inc.
>> #
>> # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
>>
>> ###############################################
>> # Here's where we get the distributed defaults.
>>
>> from Defaults import *
>>
>> ##################################################
>> # Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
>> IMAGE_Logos = '/images/'
>> MTA = 'Postfix'
>> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mail2.mysite.com'
>> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mail2.mysite.com'
>> ===== End mm_cfg.py
>
>
> If the above settings for DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_HOST are
> different from what is in Defaults.py, you shold also have after the
> two settings
>
> VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>
> although this is not your immediate problem.
>
>
> Are the messaages in one of Mailman's queues? Do
>
> ls -laR qfiles/
>
> Are there any files of form tttt.tttt+xxxxxx.pck in any of the
> subdirectories of qfiles/?. If so, in which subdirectory?
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  9 16:36:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 07:36:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unkown user
In-Reply-To: <4552DCB9.60104@whidbey.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611090736490537b5f46f8a@msapiro>

G. Armour Van Horn wrote:
>
>The heart of the bounce is as follows:
>
><"|/home/mailman/mail/mailman post freehand"@domainvanhorn.com> (expanded from
>    <freehand at virtuoso.domainvanhorn.com>): unknown user:
>    "|/home/mailman/mail/mailman post freehand"
>
>
>The aliases (/etc/postfix/aliases) for that list look like this:
>
>## freehand mailing list
>freehand:              "|/home/mailman/mail/mailman post freehand"


Then presumably, you don't use MTA = 'Postfix' and aliases in Mailman's
data/aliases.

There is something in the Postfix configuration that is causing it to
not recognize that the alias above is a pipe to a command and not a
user name. It is in Postfix and has nothing directly to do with
Mailman. The aliases seem correct.

Perhaps someone made some Postfix change involving virtual domains or
something like that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From amattina at layer8group.com  Thu Nov  9 17:02:34 2006
From: amattina at layer8group.com (Adam Mattina)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:02:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <02120861643BF543AD0B93E7D6F91FC00D2588@two.layer8group.local>

 

 

Adam Mattina
Networking & Systems Support
Layer 8 Group, Inc.
585.442.8888
amattina at layer8group.com <mailto:amattina at layer8group.com> 

 



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  9 17:14:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 08:14:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hit a but & use of VERP
In-Reply-To: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B653008D47EAA@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611090814180553ed9d0f3b@msapiro>

Henrik Rasmussen wrote:
>
>I most likely read the error message wrong, but according to the error
>message to me it seems it is line 105 in the file i18n.py that would
>contain the unexpected format character 'p', but it doesn not contain
>anything with )p


The error traceback


admin(1354):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/options.py", line
813, in loginpage
admin(1354):     table.AddRow([_("""In order to change your membership
option, you must
admin(1354):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py", line 89, in _
admin(1354):     return tns % dict
admin(1354): ValueError: unsupported format character 'p' (0x70) at
index 105


Says that the statement 'return tns % dict' at line 89 in i18n.py
encountered the error and the error was a format character of 'p' at
character position 105 in the string tns incountered in trying to
interpolate the dictionary dict into the string tns.

The string tns comes from the previous _() call at line 813 in
options.py, but it is the translation of the supplied string into the
user's preferred language. Thus it is the translataion in the
messages/<language>/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.* file that is the problem.


>However, changing "your %(extra)smembership" to "your %(extra)s
>membership" in the file /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/options.py have
>solved the problem. Se I guess it must have been the p in smembership
>that it was referring to.


Actually, adding the space caused the message to be untranslatable, and
that is what 'fixed' the problem.

The actual problem (fixed in Mailman 2.1.6) is in
messages/da/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po. In 2.1.5, you find

#: Mailman/Cgi/options.py:813
msgid ""
"In order to change your membership option, you must\n"
"    first log in by giving your %(extra)smembership password in the
section\n"
"    below.  If you don't remember your membership password, you can
have it\n"
"    emailed to you by clicking on the button below.  If you just want
to\n"
"    unsubscribe from this list, click on the <em>Unsubscribe</em>
button and "
"a\n"
"    confirmation message will be sent to you.\n"
"\n"
"    <p><strong><em>Important:</em></strong> From this point on, you
must "
"have\n"
"    cookies enabled in your browser, otherwise none of your changes
will "
"take\n"
"    effect.\n"
"    "
msgstr ""
"For at &aelig;ndre dine personlige indstillinger, skal du logge ind
nedenfor "
"ved at indtaste dit %(extra)password.\n"
"Hvis du ikke kan huske dit password, kan du bede om at f&aring; det
tilsendt "
"i en e-mail ved at klikke p&aring; knappen nedenfor.\n"
"Hvis du kun &oslash;nsker at framelde dig fra listen, klik da p?
<em>Meld mig "
"ud</em> knappen nedenfor,\n"
"og du vil efter en kort tid modtage en e-mail som beder dig godkende
dette.\n"
"\n"
"<p><strong><em>Vigtigt:</em></strong> Din Webbrowser skal acceptere "
"modtagelse af cookies\n"
"ellers bliver ingen af &aelig;ndringerne gemt.\n"
" "


The translated line

"ved at indtaste dit %(extra)password.\n"

should be

"ved at indtaste dit %(extra)spassword.\n"

After making this change, you have to run

 bin/msgfmt.py messages/da/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po

to rebuild the mailman.mo file.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Nov  9 18:06:29 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:06:29 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c1786dddc189@10.0.1.11>
References: <20061108134601.U40154@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
	<p06240500c1786dddc189@10.0.1.11>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611090906n4ebcc35fg9e5f6227a76eb200@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/8/06, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
> Of course, I actually used the FreeBSD port system to install Mailman
> as opposed to installing from source, but the concept is the same.
> And this is no guarantee that things will be this clean for you.

The only added complication when installing from source is that you'd
need to use the same './configure' arguments as you used before.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From vanhorn at whidbey.com  Thu Nov  9 19:57:36 2006
From: vanhorn at whidbey.com (G. Armour Van Horn)
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 10:57:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unkown user
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611090736490537b5f46f8a@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200611090736490537b5f46f8a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45537A20.1090409@whidbey.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>G. Armour Van Horn wrote:
>  
>
>>The heart of the bounce is as follows:
>>
>><"|/home/mailman/mail/mailman post freehand"@domainvanhorn.com> (expanded from
>>   <freehand at virtuoso.domainvanhorn.com>): unknown user:
>>   "|/home/mailman/mail/mailman post freehand"
>>
>>
>>The aliases (/etc/postfix/aliases) for that list look like this:
>>
>>## freehand mailing list
>>freehand:              "|/home/mailman/mail/mailman post freehand"
>>    
>>
>Then presumably, you don't use MTA = 'Postfix' and aliases in Mailman's
>data/aliases.
>
>There is something in the Postfix configuration that is causing it to
>not recognize that the alias above is a pipe to a command and not a
>user name. It is in Postfix and has nothing directly to do with
>Mailman. The aliases seem correct.
>
>Perhaps someone made some Postfix change involving virtual domains or
>something like that.
>  
>
Could you expand on that, perhaps? This system has used Postfix as its 
MTA since the day it was first setup (1 October 2002) and the aliases 
have always been added to /etc/postfix/aliases. There is no reference 
that I can see to aliases in /home/mailman/data, no file by that name 
and "grep alias *" returns no matches in that directory.

I don't recall ever making any change to the Postfix configuration on 
the system, although I'm sure that Postfix itself has been upgraded a 
couple of times, the current executable is dated 31 August 2005. That's 
long before the current problem started, but several years after the 
machine was first built.

Until this, the system has been extremely stable because it was 
purpose-built to run Mailman and never has had anything extraneous 
running and has been lightly loaded. Of course that may be a two-edged 
sword; the system is so stable that I rarely pay any attention to it, 
thus don't know the ins and outs of keeping things in order like I do 
with my other systems that run much higher volumes in Apache and Sendmail.

Van

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------
Sign up now for Quotes of the Day, a handful of quotations
on a theme delivered every morning.
Enlightenment! Daily, for free! 
mailto:twisted at whidbey.com?subject=Subscribe_QOTD

For photography, web design, hosting, and maintenance, 
visit Van's home page: http://www.domainvanhorn.com/van/
-----------------------------------------------------------



From glenn at vinehosting.com  Thu Nov  9 21:28:08 2006
From: glenn at vinehosting.com (Glenn Kelley)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:28:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange occurrence - search did not help
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAOlJ0sKJV7pPhkTtQo/ckBjCgAAAEAAAAPJ7HNhahF9Omsdg1/jhBJ8BAAAAAA==@vinehosting.com>

One of our clients has a strange occurrence with their Mail Man software.



This is an excerpt from their support request:



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Several people have asked the following question.

I am often getting your responses to questions before the original emails
reach me. In the case of this thread, I received your answers to Candace's
third email before I even received her first one. This time, her stuff was
quoted throughout your email, but it's happened before and only your
response came through. It's also happened with George E. and Andrew Bear's
emails. Just thought I'd let you know how I'm receiving on this end.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Any ideas ?







Glenn Kelley, Network Operations Director

The Vine Network - WEC Empowered

A division of the Foundation for Evangelism

www.Vinehosting.com / www.Evangelize.org / www.WebEmpoweredChurch.com

(V) 856-679-2008 ext 500

(C) 856-207-0123

(O) 856-753-7355

glenn at vinehosting.com




From sli1que at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  9 22:13:56 2006
From: sli1que at yahoo.com (Eric Walker)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:13:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and exim4
Message-ID: <242026.99190.qm@web60122.mail.yahoo.com>

Ok,
I am back. I am able to send a message out of exim4 from the command line through my webhosts smtp servers. (godaddy). Now I need to install mailman and get them to play together. Well it says the basic install should work right off the bat.(debian) I have a question. It says I need to at least set DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_HOST.  What do I set these too. I am sending these messages from my home machine. I get confused forinstances, DEFAULT_URL_HOST is the host part of my list.   www.mydomain.com. Well I have a legit host domain called www.mydomain.com. So when I set up list say test at mydomain.com, how do I send mail to everyone who is a member of the test list?

Thanks
Eric 

 
---------------------------------
Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

From makcalif at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 10 00:35:01 2006
From: makcalif at yahoo.com (mumtaz)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:35:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for these features
Message-ID: <20061109233501.1859.qmail@web50701.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

I have two questions:

1. The way I can create new lists using mailman, can I establish a grouping of lists as well? For example set of list for employees of my company and set of list for customers of my company? Eventually I want to customize the UI, so that employees can view only their lists and customers can only view lists related to them. Does that mean running totally separate instances of mailman for employees and customers?

2. How easy is it if I want to customize the UI that let's users subscribe to the list. I want to add new features on top of the given UIs. I want to enable some more questions to be asked on the list subscription page like age of the user, address, etc. 

Thanks
Mumtaz


 
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Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 10 02:08:17 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 17:08:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unkown user
In-Reply-To: <45537A20.1090409@whidbey.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006110917081706712d9341d0@msapiro>

G. Armour Van Horn wrote:
>>
>Could you expand on that, perhaps? This system has used Postfix as its 
>MTA since the day it was first setup (1 October 2002) and the aliases 
>have always been added to /etc/postfix/aliases. There is no reference 
>that I can see to aliases in /home/mailman/data, no file by that name 
>and "grep alias *" returns no matches in that directory.


There is a way to configure Mailman an Postfix so that mailman will
maintain aliases and aliases.db in its data/ directory and Postfix
will use them. This eliminates the need to manually add and delete
aliases in /etc/postfix/aliases when lists are created and deleted,
but is not required to use Mailman and Postfix. See
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html> for more information.

The fact that you don't do this is not the cause of your problem. The
problem is something to do with the postfix configuration file
(main.cf). Postfix is not properly interpreting the alias as a pipe to
a command. This has nothing do do with Mailman per se, as Postfix
decides the post is undeliverable without any Mailman involvement
whatsoever.

If you can't figure this out, you might have more success asking on a
Postfix list as this is a Postfix issue.

>I don't recall ever making any change to the Postfix configuration on 
>the system, although I'm sure that Postfix itself has been upgraded a 
>couple of times, the current executable is dated 31 August 2005. That's 
>long before the current problem started, but several years after the 
>machine was first built.


What about main.cf?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Nov 10 02:39:07 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 19:39:07 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for these features
In-Reply-To: <20061109233501.1859.qmail@web50701.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20061109233501.1859.qmail@web50701.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611091739r20481ccdo35a89f58ec2d9a88@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/9/06, mumtaz <makcalif at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have two questions:
>
> 1. The way I can create new lists using mailman, can I establish a grouping of lists as well?
> For example set of list for employees of my company and set of list for customers of my
> company? Eventually I want to customize the UI, so that employees can view only their lists
> and customers can only view lists related to them. Does that mean running totally separate
> instances of mailman for employees and customers?

See FAQ 3.5 <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.005.htp>


-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 10 02:55:22 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 17:55:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange occurrence - search did not help
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAOlJ0sKJV7pPhkTtQo/ckBjCgAAAEAAAAPJ7HNhahF9Omsdg1/jhBJ8BAAAAAA==@vinehosting.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611091755220578f57ae3b8@msapiro>

Glenn Kelley wrote:
>
>One of our clients has a strange occurrence with their Mail Man software.
>
>
>
>This is an excerpt from their support request:
>
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Several people have asked the following question.
>
>I am often getting your responses to questions before the original emails
>reach me. In the case of this thread, I received your answers to Candace's
>third email before I even received her first one. This time, her stuff was
>quoted throughout your email, but it's happened before and only your
>response came through. It's also happened with George E. and Andrew Bear's
>emails. Just thought I'd let you know how I'm receiving on this end.
>
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This is not a Mailman issue at all.

A posts. Mailman delivers the post to the outgoing MTA for all
recipients. B receives the post and replies. Mailman delivers the
reply to the outgoing MTA for all recipients. C receives B's reply
before A's post. This is not unusual. Mail delivery is complex, and
delays can occur anywhere. Receiving mail out of sequence is not
unusual, particularly if the recipients MTA is busy and not listening
continuously.

To diagnose this further from the sending end, you have to look at the
sending MTA's logs for the sends to the recipieint who received out of
sequence. You may find that the send of A's post to C was delayed
because of some SMTP issue between the MTAs and B's reply was not
delayed. Or you may see nothing unusual because the delay occurred
further down the delivery pipe.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From CLopez at oas.org  Fri Nov 10 03:43:25 2006
From: CLopez at oas.org (Lopez, Carlos Andres)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 21:43:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debian+Mailman+postfix Error with SMTP
Message-ID: <9CA36A3B60F5E9479BAB9A8A447762024C817C@STORK1.oas.org>

Hello guys...

...I'm new using mailman and postfix.

I installed postfix first and it ran perfect.

After I followed this 

 

With Mailman 2.1.4 installed, I followed the directions in the script
itself /usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py: 

/etc/postfix/main.cf:
   [...]
   relay_domains = ... lists.yourdomain.net
   transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
   mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1
   [...]
 
/etc/postfix/master.cf
   # [...]  
   mailman unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
     flags=FR user=list
     argv=/var/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py ${nexthop} ${user}
 
/etc/postfix/transport:
   lists.yourdomain.net   mailman:
 
/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py
   MTA = None # No MTA alias processing required
   # alias for postmaster, abuse and mailer-daemon
   DEB_LISTMASTER = 'postmaster at yourdomain.net'

After that, I restarted the Postfix and Mailman services. Furthermore,
in order for Postfix to learn about the "transport" settings, one needs
to run the command "postmap /etc/postfix/transport". 

I'm using debian sarge and lates postfix and mailman released.

The problem is that I can still receive mail to my local account but not
to any lists.... Or went I create the list it doesn't send the mail to
the list owner or the list members...

I went ot look the error log I found this.

Nov 09 21:28:33 2006 (9361) delivery to clopez at mydomain.com failed with
code -1: (-3,

 'Temporary failure in name resolution')

 

I really appreciate your help... if anyone knows how to fix it will by
my lifesaver... 

Thanks....

 

 

Carlos A. Lopez



From sli1que at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 10 05:31:10 2006
From: sli1que at yahoo.com (Eric Walker)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 20:31:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and exim4
In-Reply-To: <242026.99190.qm@web60122.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <571913.72172.qm@web60113.mail.yahoo.com>

no one got any ideas?



Eric Walker <sli1que at yahoo.com> wrote: Ok,
I am back. I am able to send a message out of exim4 from the command line through my webhosts smtp servers. (godaddy). Now I need to install mailman and get them to play together. Well it says the basic install should work right off the bat.(debian) I have a question. It says I need to at least set DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_HOST.  What do I set these too. I am sending these messages from my home machine. I get confused forinstances, DEFAULT_URL_HOST is the host part of my list.   www.mydomain.com. Well I have a legit host domain called www.mydomain.com. So when I set up list say test at mydomain.com, how do I send mail to everyone who is a member of the test list?

Thanks
Eric 

 
---------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------
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Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/sli1que%40yahoo.com

Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp



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From ge at linuxbox.org  Fri Nov 10 13:48:22 2006
From: ge at linuxbox.org (Gadi Evron)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 06:48:22 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0611100643150.15123-100000@linuxbox.org>

[x-posted to an anti-spam list]

Hi.

This is not specific to mailman, but I had a lot of trouble with it. I am
sure I am not the only one, so I figured I'll share.

In recent months the problem of moderation, especially with large lists,
has become even more significant.

The amounts of spam which reach the uncomfortable moderation page is
staggering.. but this email is not about the very inconvinient way of
mailman moderation (even small changes such as letting me moderate
non-members differently would have been amazing!).

This email is about spamcop.
Spamcop is blacklisting server swhich relay mailing list bounces
containing spam. Mailing list bounces are some of the only acceptable
bounces left on the Internet, but now that's no longer true.

These bounces contain mostly spam and phishing, and bounced back to fake
addresses belonging to real people. Therefore, even if Spamcop is
especially evil in this case and annoy us to hell and back - they are
right.

Bouncing back a message which tells a user his original message is held
for moderation is now a bad idea if we want to stay out of the black list
of spamcop, not to mention to not turn our servers to willing spam
conduits (as discussed a few months ago).

	Gadi.



From seeleman at gse.upenn.edu  Fri Nov 10 14:45:52 2006
From: seeleman at gse.upenn.edu (Todd Seeleman)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 08:45:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella List / Moderation
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061025202108035965d978ef@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061025202108035965d978ef@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45548290.2040605@gse.upenn.edu>


Greetings,

	I'm still not clear on the umbrella list function.  What I'm trying to 
do is have a number of sub-lists (different faculty status) to which 
email to the super-list (all-faculty comprising all of the sub-list 
names) will distribute.  I'd like to allow all sub-list members to send 
to the super-list and, if possible, allow all domain addresses i.e. 
*@gse.upenn.edu to send to certain lists.  Is this possible?  I've tried 
using the following options without success.

> On Privacy options...->Recipient filters for each sub-list, add the
> posting address of the umbrella lis to acceptable_aliases or, if you
> prefer, set require_explicit_destination to No.
> 

-- 

  ***************************************************************
  Todd Seeleman, Systems Analyst
  Penn Graduate School of Education
  3440 Market Street, Rm 477        email: seeleman at gse.upenn.edu
  Philadelphia, PA. 19104-3325      phone: 215-573-8378
  ***************************************************************


______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email 
______________________________________________________________________


From gherzig at fmed.uba.ar  Fri Nov 10 14:57:10 2006
From: gherzig at fmed.uba.ar (Gerardo Herzig)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:57:10 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] deleting "pending for approval" from command line
Message-ID: <45548536.5020401@fmed.uba.ar>

Hi all. I have a user who does not check "pending for approvals" so 
long, and now the mailman web interface trows an error (an timeout or 
resources issue, not shure). The thing is: Can i delete those pending 
messages from command line? Can i delete or blank a simple file? (its ok 
if i delete ALL the pending messages)

Thanks!!

Mailman 2.1.4


From ge at linuxbox.org  Fri Nov 10 15:16:47 2006
From: ge at linuxbox.org (Gadi Evron)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 08:16:47 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] deleting "pending for approval" from command
 line
In-Reply-To: <45548536.5020401@fmed.uba.ar>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0611100816140.21253-100000@linuxbox.org>

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Gerardo Herzig wrote:
> Hi all. I have a user who does not check "pending for approvals" so 
> long, and now the mailman web interface trows an error (an timeout or 
> resources issue, not shure). The thing is: Can i delete those pending 
> messages from command line? Can i delete or blank a simple file? (its ok 
> if i delete ALL the pending messages)

I have a similar issue with a mailing list with over 5K unmoderated
messages I need to sift through, and can't load the web interface for it.

	Gadi.

> 
> Thanks!!
> 
> Mailman 2.1.4
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ge%40linuxbox.org
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 



From seeleman at gse.upenn.edu  Fri Nov 10 15:18:27 2006
From: seeleman at gse.upenn.edu (Todd Seeleman)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:18:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Fwd: Re:  Umbrella List / Moderation]
Message-ID: <45548A33.5020605@gse.upenn.edu>


Sorry.  Mailman Version 2.1.9

Greetings,

	I'm still not clear on the umbrella list function.  What I'm trying to 
do is have a number of sub-lists (different faculty status) to which 
email to the super-list (all-faculty comprising all of the sub-list 
names) will distribute.  I'd like to allow all sub-list members to send 
to the super-list and, if possible, allow all domain addresses i.e. 
*@gse.upenn.edu to send to certain lists.  Is this possible?  I've tried 
using the following options without success.

> On Privacy options...->Recipient filters for each sub-list, add the
> posting address of the umbrella lis to acceptable_aliases or, if you
> prefer, set require_explicit_destination to No.
> 

-- 

  ***************************************************************
  Todd Seeleman, Systems Analyst
  Penn Graduate School of Education
  3440 Market Street, Rm 477        email: seeleman at gse.upenn.edu
  Philadelphia, PA. 19104-3325      phone: 215-573-8378
  ***************************************************************




______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email 
______________________________________________________________________


From gretchen at ladyweave.com  Fri Nov 10 15:45:20 2006
From: gretchen at ladyweave.com (Gretchen at Ladyweave.com | 269-369-1114)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:45:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] connection refused by lists.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.28.1163156410.19568.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <005101c704d6$d8feacf0$64010a0a@shadefc0737047>

Greetings!

I'm a newbie, a user, not a programmer -- and I have a question.

A message to one of our lists didn't go through. Does the error message
indicate a problem at the server or is it within the program? The list seems
to be working fine now. Thanks for any advice you can give.

Gretchen Ohmann
gretchen at ladyweave.com

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
<religious-educators at lists.cmwd-uua.org>... Deferred: Connection refused by
lists.cmwd-uua.org.
Message could not be delivered for 3 hours
Message will be deleted from queue

Final-Recipient: RFC822; religious-educators at lists.cmwd-uua.org
Action: failed
Status: 4.4.7
Remote-MTA: DNS; lists.cmwd-uua.org
Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:09:21 -0500 (EST)



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Nov 10 16:26:30 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:26:30 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] connection refused by lists.
In-Reply-To: <005101c704d6$d8feacf0$64010a0a@shadefc0737047>
References: <mailman.28.1163156410.19568.mailman-users@python.org>
	<005101c704d6$d8feacf0$64010a0a@shadefc0737047>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611100726o1feaffc5lde455465eb66b2f1@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/10/06, Gretchen at Ladyweave.com | 269-369-1114
<gretchen at ladyweave.com> wrote:
> A message to one of our lists didn't go through. Does the error message
> indicate a problem at the server or is it within the program? The list seems
> to be working fine now. Thanks for any advice you can give.
>
> <religious-educators at lists.cmwd-uua.org>... Deferred: Connection refused by
> lists.cmwd-uua.org.
> Message could not be delivered for 3 hours
> Message will be deleted from queue

This was a problem with the MTA (e.g., postfix, sendmail, exim, qmail,
or something else) at lists.cmwd-uua.org, OR with whichever server was
trying to talk to it. The latter is probably not the case, but it MAY
be due to a network disruption if everything checks out on the MTA
level.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Nov 10 16:30:01 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:30:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella List / Moderation
In-Reply-To: <45548290.2040605@gse.upenn.edu>
References: <PC176020061025202108035965d978ef@msapiro>
	<45548290.2040605@gse.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611100730k5101da96n9a62926cc47f7158@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/10/06, Todd Seeleman <seeleman at gse.upenn.edu> wrote:
>         I'm still not clear on the umbrella list function.  What I'm trying to
> do is have a number of sub-lists (different faculty status) to which
> email to the super-list (all-faculty comprising all of the sub-list
> names) will distribute.  I'd like to allow all sub-list members to send
> to the super-list
There is a patch to facilitate this, which allows you to reference
other lists' memberships in Privacy Options > Sender Filters >
accept_these_nonmembers.

> and, if possible, allow all domain addresses i.e.
> *@gse.upenn.edu to send to certain lists.  Is this possible?  I've tried
> using the following options without success.
You want to add ^.*@gse\.upenn\.edu to accept_these_nonmembers, which
should make it a regexp match.

As for the umbrella list configuration, not only do you need either
acceptable_aliases or !require_explicit_destination, but the umbrella
list address will also need to be in accept_these_nonmembers, or a
member of the sub lists (but the latter, here, is almost certainly a
bad idea. So, stick with accept_these_nonmembers.)


Hope this helps,

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From szybalski at gmail.com  Fri Nov 10 16:30:01 2006
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:30:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611081644440703328c314b@msapiro>
References: <804e5c70611081455s22996a9cqa506c4be9f3ae1b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200611081644440703328c314b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <804e5c70611100730u67b82e49t8cebcb4e177f76f2@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/8/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
> >
> >I put the original smtplib.py file back in /varlib/python.3/smtplib.py
> >and i get the same problem again.
> >
> >Nov 08 16:41:31 2006 (13973) Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file
> >descriptor, msgid:
> ><804e5c70611081443y26603704gdecfae9847cf64f4 at xxx.xxxx.com>
> >Nov 08 16:46:31 2006 (13973) delivery to xxxxx at xxx.com failed with
> >code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
> >Nov 08 16:46:31 2006 (13973) Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file
> >descriptor, msgid: <455209CD.20560.1BA7A89 at xxxx.xxxx.org>
> >Nov 08 16:46:31 2006 (13973) delivery to xxxx at xxxx.com failed with
> >code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
> >
> >So i guess i will stick with the file i got from debian bug
>
>
> Please post a 'diff -u' between the smtplib.py that works and the one
> that doesn't work.
>
> Lionel says that effectively all he changed in your working version was
> writing debug output to sys.stderr instead of stdout, and when I
> diffed Lionel's version with the Python 2.3.4 base, that's the only
> change I saw, but there must be something else in your case or else
> simply enabling the debug prints causes the problem because of the
> writes to stdout, but then what caused the original problem.
>
> In any case, I am very interested to see if there is some other change
> in your original smtplib.py that is causing it to fail.
>

Please not the smtlib.py is the one given to me and smtlib.py.1 is the
original one causing the problem.
I posted the whole file to debian bug report also.

xxx at xxx:/usr/lib/python2.3$ diff -u smtplib.py smtplib.py.1
--- smtplib.py  2006-11-03 11:35:49.000000000 -0600
+++ smtplib.py.1        2006-11-03 12:41:55.000000000 -0600
@@ -41,7 +41,6 @@
 #
 # This was modified from the Python 1.5 library HTTP lib.

-import sys
 import socket
 import re
 import rfc822
@@ -283,17 +282,17 @@
                 except ValueError:
                     raise socket.error, "nonnumeric port"
         if not port: port = SMTP_PORT
-        if self.debuglevel > 0: print >> sys.stderr, 'connect:', (host, port)
+        if self.debuglevel > 0: print 'connect:', (host, port)
         msg = "getaddrinfo returns an empty list"
         self.sock = None
         for res in socket.getaddrinfo(host, port, 0, socket.SOCK_STREAM):
             af, socktype, proto, canonname, sa = res
             try:
                 self.sock = socket.socket(af, socktype, proto)
-                if self.debuglevel > 0: print >> sys.stderr,
'connect:', (host, port)
+                if self.debuglevel > 0: print 'connect:', (host, port)
                 self.sock.connect(sa)
             except socket.error, msg:
-                if self.debuglevel > 0: print >> sys.stderr, 'connect
fail:', (host, port)
+                if self.debuglevel > 0: print 'connect fail:', (host, port)
                 if self.sock:
                     self.sock.close()
                 self.sock = None
@@ -302,12 +301,12 @@
         if not self.sock:
             raise socket.error, msg
         (code, msg) = self.getreply()
-        if self.debuglevel > 0: print >> sys.stderr, "connect:", msg
+        if self.debuglevel > 0: print "connect:", msg
         return (code, msg)

     def send(self, str):
         """Send `str' to the server."""
-        if self.debuglevel > 0: print >> sys.stderr, 'send:', `str`
+        if self.debuglevel > 0: print 'send:', `str`
         if self.sock:
             try:
                 self.sock.sendall(str)
@@ -346,7 +345,7 @@
             if line == '':
                 self.close()
                 raise SMTPServerDisconnected("Connection unexpectedly closed")
-            if self.debuglevel > 0: print >> sys.stderr, 'reply:', `line`
+            if self.debuglevel > 0: print 'reply:', `line`
             resp.append(line[4:].strip())
             code=line[:3]
             # Check that the error code is syntactically correct.
@@ -362,7 +361,7 @@

         errmsg = "\n".join(resp)
         if self.debuglevel > 0:
-            print >> sys.stderr, 'reply: retcode (%s); Msg: %s' %
(errcode,errmsg)
+            print 'reply: retcode (%s); Msg: %s' % (errcode,errmsg)
         return errcode, errmsg

     def docmd(self, cmd, args=""):
@@ -475,7 +474,7 @@
         """
         self.putcmd("data")
         (code,repl)=self.getreply()
-        if self.debuglevel >0 : print >> sys.stderr, "data:", (code,repl)
+        if self.debuglevel >0 : print "data:", (code,repl)
         if code != 354:
             raise SMTPDataError(code,repl)
         else:
@@ -485,7 +484,7 @@
             q = q + "." + CRLF
             self.send(q)
             (code,msg)=self.getreply()
-            if self.debuglevel >0 : print >> sys.stderr, "data:", (code,msg)
+            if self.debuglevel >0 : print "data:", (code,msg)
             return (code,msg)

     def verify(self, address):
xxx at xxx:/usr/lib/python2.3$

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=395493


-- 
Universal Information Crawler
http://uicrawler.sourceforge.net/


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Nov 10 16:37:56 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:37:56 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] deleting "pending for approval" from command
	line
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0611100816140.21253-100000@linuxbox.org>
References: <45548536.5020401@fmed.uba.ar>
	<Pine.LNX.4.21.0611100816140.21253-100000@linuxbox.org>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611100737j526d229epd5107cc83a2c4156@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/10/06, Gadi Evron <ge at linuxbox.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Gerardo Herzig wrote:
> > resources issue, not shure). The thing is: Can i delete those pending
> > messages from command line? Can i delete or blank a simple file? (its ok
> > if i delete ALL the pending messages)
>
> I have a similar issue with a mailing list with over 5K unmoderated
> messages I need to sift through, and can't load the web interface for it.
>
>         Gadi.
>

I've added FAQ 4.74
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.074.htp>
to answer this. If someone else can look it over for me and
double-check that what I've put is accurate (and the best phrasing,
etc.), I'd be appreciative.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Nov 10 16:45:55 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:45:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0611100643150.15123-100000@linuxbox.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0611100643150.15123-100000@linuxbox.org>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611100745j37ec906ctccb73cd1f916b108@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/10/06, Gadi Evron <ge at linuxbox.org> wrote:
> This is not specific to mailman, but I had a lot of trouble with it. I am
> sure I am not the only one, so I figured I'll share.
>
> In recent months the problem of moderation, especially with large lists,
> has become even more significant.
>
> The amounts of spam which reach the uncomfortable moderation page is
> staggering.. but this email is not about the very inconvinient way of
> mailman moderation (even small changes such as letting me moderate
> non-members differently would have been amazing!).
>
> This email is about spamcop.
> Spamcop is blacklisting server swhich relay mailing list bounces
> containing spam. Mailing list bounces are some of the only acceptable
> bounces left on the Internet, but now that's no longer true.
>
> These bounces contain mostly spam and phishing, and bounced back to fake
> addresses belonging to real people. Therefore, even if Spamcop is
> especially evil in this case and annoy us to hell and back - they are
> right.
>
> Bouncing back a message which tells a user his original message is held
> for moderation is now a bad idea if we want to stay out of the black list
> of spamcop, not to mention to not turn our servers to willing spam
> conduits (as discussed a few months ago).
>
>         Gadi.
>

I'm not entirely sure what the point of this message was.

Bearing that in mind, you shouldn't be using moderation as a
first-line anti-spam defense. Your MTA should be tagging emails as
spam (e.g., using Spamassassin, or something better suited to your
particular configuration), greylisting, etc. With a properly
configured setup, the spam that actually reaches the moderation
interface should be minimal; most of it should be discarded (not
rejected) by mailman, at the very least.

This is fairly trivial to implement; just set up your MTA to pass mail
through spamassassin, and then add a check for the headers it adds to
mailman's list configuration, if nothing else.

If I'm understanding your concern, the key here is for you to
configure your mailman installation to discard known spam messages
rather than rejecting them. This is, in fact, one of the options on
the moderation screen (you may choose to Accept, Defer, Reject, or
Discard messages).

Additionally, as far as I know, you CAN moderate non-members
differently; although perhaps I don't have the same understanding of
that phrase as you do. You can set messages from non-members to be
automatically discarded or rejected, as you wish. See Privacy Options
> Sender Filters > generic_nonmember_action

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Nov 10 16:48:07 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:48:07 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and exim4
In-Reply-To: <242026.99190.qm@web60122.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <242026.99190.qm@web60122.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611100748o7023437du9dcbc1886b0b73cf@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/9/06, Eric Walker <sli1que at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Ok,
> I am back. I am able to send a message out of exim4 from the command line through my
> webhosts smtp servers. (godaddy). Now I need to install mailman and get them to play
> together. Well it says the basic install should work right off the bat.(debian) I have a
> question. It says I need to at least set DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST.  What do I set these too. I am sending these messages from my
> home machine. I get confused forinstances, DEFAULT_URL_HOST is the host part of my
> list.   www.mydomain.com. Well I have a legit host domain called www.mydomain.com.
> So when I set up list say test at mydomain.com, how do I send mail to everyone who is a
> member of the test list?

Have you read through the Mailman Installation Manual
<http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/index.html> ?
These topics should be covered therein. Once you (mostly) understand
what it has to say, we'll be happy to help you address any issues you
might run across.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Nov 10 16:50:38 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:50:38 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debian+Mailman+postfix Error with SMTP
In-Reply-To: <9CA36A3B60F5E9479BAB9A8A447762024C817C@STORK1.oas.org>
References: <9CA36A3B60F5E9479BAB9A8A447762024C817C@STORK1.oas.org>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611100750y31ffbd6xfb5351cce5c6edb4@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/9/06, Lopez, Carlos Andres <CLopez at oas.org> wrote:
> Nov 09 21:28:33 2006 (9361) delivery to clopez at mydomain.com failed with
> code -1: (-3,
>
>  'Temporary failure in name resolution')

Which log file is this from, exactly? Is "clopez at mydomain.com" the
actual address, or have you edited the log entry (when posting to us)?
 Is the address a list member, or the name of a list?

If this is from a mailman log, it looks like your message is getting
to the list, but it's failing on delivery, which isn't a
postfix-mailman integration issue. It looks, in fact, like
'mydomain.com' is an invalid domain (check your email address in the
membership), or your mailman machine might have some kind of DNS
issues.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From ge at linuxbox.org  Fri Nov 10 16:57:35 2006
From: ge at linuxbox.org (Gadi Evron)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:57:35 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00611100745j37ec906ctccb73cd1f916b108@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0611100954370.21253-100000@linuxbox.org>

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Patrick Bogen wrote:
> I'm not entirely sure what the point of this message was.
> 
> Bearing that in mind, you shouldn't be using moderation as a
> first-line anti-spam defense. Your MTA should be tagging emails as
> spam (e.g., using Spamassassin, or something better suited to your
> particular configuration), greylisting, etc. With a properly
> configured setup, the spam that actually reaches the moderation
> interface should be minimal; most of it should be discarded (not
> rejected) by mailman, at the very least.
> 
> This is fairly trivial to implement; just set up your MTA to pass mail
> through spamassassin, and then add a check for the headers it adds to
> mailman's list configuration, if nothing else.

That fails the test of reality on lists I run which can be filtered. The
problem is so big now simple filtering doesn't do that much good. On those
lists that can't (security related with a lot of false positives) not
practical.

> If I'm understanding your concern, the key here is for you to
> configure your mailman installation to discard known spam messages
> rather than rejecting them. This is, in fact, one of the options on
> the moderation screen (you may choose to Accept, Defer, Reject, or
> Discard messages).

Auto-discarding may be an option, but it isn't in this case, as I need to
approve a lot of non-subscribed posts.

> Additionally, as far as I know, you CAN moderate non-members
> differently; although perhaps I don't have the same understanding of
> that phrase as you do. You can set messages from non-members to be
> automatically discarded or rejected, as you wish. See Privacy Options
> > Sender Filters > generic_nonmember_action

Moderate them differently and still have a choice? Going through modding
subscribers and seeing 2-3 posts, and going through non-subscribers and
seeing hundreds, simply isn't the same when on the same screen.

> -- 
> - Patrick Bogen
> 



From cgregory at hwcn.org  Fri Nov 10 17:45:47 2006
From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:45:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00611100745j37ec906ctccb73cd1f916b108@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10611101121120.19505-100000@james.hwcn.org>

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Patrick Bogen wrote:
> > Bouncing back a message which tells a user his original message is held
> > for moderation is now a bad idea if we want to stay out of the black list
> > of spamcop....      Gadi.
> I'm not entirely sure what the point of this message was.

The point *I* got was, even if you successfully filter with every 'safe'
method of spam filtering we can imagine, roughly 5-10% of spam will end up
reaching mailman, and when mailman sends its 'routine' message back to
'sender', it is generating backscatter that is cause for blacklisting.

The only suggestion I can come up with is some simple last-minute
filtering within mailman itself: Only send a 'holding' notice if the
visible 'From' header matches the Envelope Sender, and if the visibile
'To' address contains the mailman list address. The advantage to handling
this within mailman, and not in spamassassin, is that you aren't choosing
to discard the mail based on this criteria. You're just deciding whether
to send a courtesy e-mail warning of moderation.

Of course, you could simply choose not to send any warnings at all. Let
people who try to post figure it out for themselves. A good list home
page, and/or disclaimers at the bottom of list mail should help with this.

- Charles




 > > Bearing that in mind, you shouldn't be using moderation as
a > first-line anti-spam defense. Your MTA should be tagging emails as
> spam (e.g., using Spamassassin, or something better suited to your
> particular configuration), greylisting, etc. With a properly
> configured setup, the spam that actually reaches the moderation
> interface should be minimal; most of it should be discarded (not
> rejected) by mailman, at the very least.
> 
> This is fairly trivial to implement; just set up your MTA to pass mail
> through spamassassin, and then add a check for the headers it adds to
> mailman's list configuration, if nothing else.
> 
> If I'm understanding your concern, the key here is for you to
> configure your mailman installation to discard known spam messages
> rather than rejecting them. This is, in fact, one of the options on
> the moderation screen (you may choose to Accept, Defer, Reject, or
> Discard messages).
> 
> Additionally, as far as I know, you CAN moderate non-members
> differently; although perhaps I don't have the same understanding of
> that phrase as you do. You can set messages from non-members to be
> automatically discarded or rejected, as you wish. See Privacy Options
> > Sender Filters > generic_nonmember_action
> 
> -- 
> - Patrick Bogen
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cgregory%40hwcn.org
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 



From cpz at tuunq.com  Fri Nov 10 17:59:16 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 08:59:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0611100954370.21253-100000@linuxbox.org> from Gadi
	Evron at "Nov 10, 2006 09:57:35 am"
Message-ID: <20061110165916.61CC57AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Gadi Evron wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Patrick Bogen wrote:
> > Bearing that in mind, you shouldn't be using moderation as a
> > first-line anti-spam defense. Your MTA should be tagging emails as
> > spam (e.g., using Spamassassin, or something better suited to your
> > particular configuration), greylisting, etc. With a properly

> > This is fairly trivial to implement; just set up your MTA to pass mail
> > through spamassassin, and then add a check for the headers it adds to
> > mailman's list configuration, if nothing else.

> That fails the test of reality on lists I run which can be filtered. The
> problem is so big now simple filtering doesn't do that much good. On those
> lists that can't (security related with a lot of false positives) not
> practical.

I'm not sure how this fails a reality test. Are any anti-spam measures
in place currently?  If not, mailman is certainly not the place to 
start. That place is the incoming mail MTA.  (If you run your own servers,
installing spamassassin shoundn't take too much time. If you're using a
hosting server, then they should already have spam filters in place. If
they don't/can't you might consider a service that does.)

Once the MTA filters out what it can, and tags the suspect spam as such,
-then- creating mailman filters does become an almost trivial task.

Please search the mailman user's list archives, there have been many
discussions about spam handling.

z!


From ge at linuxbox.org  Fri Nov 10 17:52:05 2006
From: ge at linuxbox.org (Gadi Evron)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:52:05 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <20061110165916.61CC57AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0611101050580.27910-100000@linuxbox.org>

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
> I'm not sure how this fails a reality test. Are any anti-spam measures
> in place currently?  If not, mailman is certainly not the place to 
> start. That place is the incoming mail MTA.  (If you run your own servers,
> installing spamassassin shoundn't take too much time. If you're using a
> hosting server, then they should already have spam filters in place. If
> they don't/can't you might consider a service that does.)
> 
> Once the MTA filters out what it can, and tags the suspect spam as such,
> -then- creating mailman filters does become an almost trivial task.
> 
> Please search the mailman user's list archives, there have been many
> discussions about spam handling.
> 
> z!
> 

I cannot afford to spam filter some mailing lists. That's my problem.
With those I do, a lot still comes through and I am pretty good at it.

Sending the messages back is causing a lot of problem, and should be
considered again if it should remain ON by default.

	Gadi.



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 10 18:03:57 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:03:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for these features
In-Reply-To: <20061109233501.1859.qmail@web50701.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611100903570640f2f2ce99@msapiro>

mumtaz wrote:
>
>1. The way I can create new lists using mailman, can I establish a grouping of lists as well? For example set of list for employees of my company and set of list for customers of my company? Eventually I want to customize the UI, so that employees can view only their lists and customers can only view lists related to them. Does that mean running totally separate instances of mailman for employees and customers?


It may. You probably need to have two domains (different virtual
hosts), one for customers and one for employees. Then you can use
Mailman's virtual host capability to separate the two virtual hosts.
You can do this with a single Mailman instance, but only if you are
willing to live with the restriction that all list names must be
unique - i.e. you cant have the same list name in two different
domains. This restriction will go away in Mailman 2.2, but currently
if you want the same list name in two domains, you need two Mailman
instances or some 3rd party patches.


>2. How easy is it if I want to customize the UI that let's users subscribe to the list. I want to add new features on top of the given UIs. I want to enable some more questions to be asked on the list subscription page like age of the user, address, etc. 


It's fairly easy to modify the listinfo template to add additionl input
fields, but you also have to modify the CGI to accept the additional
information, and create a custom MemberAdaptor to store and maintain
that information. It is not difficult if you are a Python programmer,
but there are several pieces that have to work together.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Nov 10 18:07:56 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:07:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0611101050580.27910-100000@linuxbox.org>
References: <20061110165916.61CC57AE@mail.tuunq.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.21.0611101050580.27910-100000@linuxbox.org>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061110085608.0668a750@crimson-dragon.com>

Gadi Evron wrote:

>I cannot afford to spam filter some mailing lists. That's my problem.
>With those I do, a lot still comes through and I am pretty good at it.
>
>Sending the messages back is causing a lot of problem, and should be
>considered again if it should remain ON by default.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

This begs the question, why can you NOT afford to filter some lists?

I personally cannot imagine a situation where this would be so.


I've found that since we implemented gray-listing and spam-assassin 
and ClamAV on my server, I get maybe one Spam mail slipping through 
to mailman each month. Most times, it is completely spam-free and the 
only moderation request I get are for members trying to post to a 
member's only list from an alternative e-mail address.

Before we did all of this, we were getting many thousands of spam 
mails each day. Right now, those spam mails are still hitting the 
server but the vast majority are never even received because 
gray-listing derails about 80 to 90% of them. Of those that do get 
past that, most are then correctly identified by spamassassin for 
what they are.

You really should use the power of MTA filtering, it will save you a 
lot of frustration. At the very least, use gray-listing because the 
vast majority of spam simply won't be resent when a deferral response 
is sent from your MTA to the sender.



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Nov 10 18:11:34 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:11:34 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] deleting "pending for approval" from command
	line
In-Reply-To: <20061110171951.DAA167AE@mail.tuunq.com>
References: <6fbe3da00611100737j526d229epd5107cc83a2c4156@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061110171951.DAA167AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611100911p2dea6c42n56d1519da18dfa6d@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/10/06, Carl Zwanzig <cpz at tuunq.com> wrote:
> a coupla notes-
> The formatting comes out a bit wonky, ie
>         $ cd ~mailman/data $ rm heldmsg-<listname>-*
> is one line.
Fixed.

> I'm a more of fan of piping find output to xargs instead of using -exec.
>         find heldmsg  -name '*' | xargs rm
> (it also looks like the base dir is missing in the example.)
That seems like it'd be more efficient. Changed. (Fixed.)

>
> I don't see how the last example would be any better than the first, you
> can still fill up the cmd line.

Good point.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From ge at linuxbox.org  Fri Nov 10 18:13:50 2006
From: ge at linuxbox.org (Gadi Evron)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:13:50 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061110085608.0668a750@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0611101112460.27910-100000@linuxbox.org>

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Dragon wrote:
> Gadi Evron wrote:
> 
> >I cannot afford to spam filter some mailing lists. That's my problem.
> >With those I do, a lot still comes through and I am pretty good at it.
> >
> >Sending the messages back is causing a lot of problem, and should be
> >considered again if it should remain ON by default.
> ---------------- End original message. ---------------------
> 
> This begs the question, why can you NOT afford to filter some lists?
> 
> I personally cannot imagine a situation where this would be so.

Look at it as business which don't filter as they fear to lose
clients/business email.

That is a secondary problem to me. Lists I can't filter I will suffer
for. :)

These lists' main posts are reports of phishing scams, spam or malware,
which filtering kind of disturbs, but I am not complaining about them.

	Gadi.



From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Fri Nov 10 18:17:14 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:17:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] connection refused by lists.
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00611100726o1feaffc5lde455465eb66b2f1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C179F41A.FE1B%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 11/10/06 7:26 AM, "Patrick Bogen" <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11/10/06, Gretchen at Ladyweave.com | 269-369-1114
> <gretchen at ladyweave.com> wrote:
>> A message to one of our lists didn't go through. Does the error message
>> indicate a problem at the server or is it within the program? The list seems
>> to be working fine now. Thanks for any advice you can give.
>> 
>> <religious-educators at lists.cmwd-uua.org>... Deferred: Connection refused by
>> lists.cmwd-uua.org.
>> Message could not be delivered for 3 hours
>> Message will be deleted from queue
> 
> This was a problem with the MTA (e.g., postfix, sendmail, exim, qmail,
> or something else) at lists.cmwd-uua.org, OR with whichever server was
> trying to talk to it. The latter is probably not the case, but it MAY
> be due to a network disruption if everything checks out on the MTA
> level.
The sending MTA--aside from anything else--has a remarkably short retry
limit.  There are, for example, a bunch of school districts around here to
which they couldn't send mail on weekends as the districts shut their
servers down.  (The districts we send to most often have stopped doing
that.)

  --John




From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Fri Nov 10 18:25:00 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:25:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061110085608.0668a750@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <C179F5EC.FE1F%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 11/10/06 9:07 AM, "Dragon" <dragon at crimson-dragon.com> wrote:

> You really should use the power of MTA filtering, it will save you a
> lot of frustration. At the very least, use gray-listing because the
> vast majority of spam simply won't be resent when a deferral response
> is sent from your MTA to the sender.

Unfortunately, the spam engines sending image spam (or at least some of
them) are indeed retrying and successfully getting through greylisting.

[I can't say how much image spam might not be getting through greylisting.]

So the end of greylisting as a useful tool is approaching (I'm surprised it
has survived this long).

  --John




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 10 18:32:20 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:32:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] deleting "pending for approval" from commandline
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00611100737j526d229epd5107cc83a2c4156@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611100932200609483f9dd5@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
>I've added FAQ 4.74
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.074.htp>
>to answer this. If someone else can look it over for me and
>double-check that what I've put is accurate (and the best phrasing,
>etc.), I'd be appreciative.


I updated FAQ 4.74 to use bin/discard instead of rm and to explain why.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Nov 10 18:40:58 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:40:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <C179F5EC.FE1F%jwblist3@olympus.net>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20061110085608.0668a750@crimson-dragon.com>
	<C179F5EC.FE1F%jwblist3@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061110093746.066f03a0@crimson-dragon.com>

John W. Baxter sent the message below at 09:25 11/10/2006:
>On 11/10/06 9:07 AM, "Dragon" <dragon at crimson-dragon.com> wrote:
>
> > You really should use the power of MTA filtering, it will save you a
> > lot of frustration. At the very least, use gray-listing because the
> > vast majority of spam simply won't be resent when a deferral response
> > is sent from your MTA to the sender.
>
>Unfortunately, the spam engines sending image spam (or at least some of
>them) are indeed retrying and successfully getting through greylisting.
>
>[I can't say how much image spam might not be getting through greylisting.]
>
>So the end of greylisting as a useful tool is approaching (I'm surprised it
>has survived this long).
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

True, and there will always be an arms race between spammers and 
those of us who run servers to try to protect ourselves from unwanted junk.

But certain approaches are still quite effective and we should still 
be utilizing them when appropriate. Hopefully, the good guys will be 
able to keep ahead of the technology curve to put the screw to the bad guys.


Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Nov 10 18:49:14 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:49:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <C179F5EC.FE1F%jwblist3@olympus.net>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20061110085608.0668a750@crimson-dragon.com>
	<C179F5EC.FE1F%jwblist3@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611100949o4eb1735ayef4616e5c6042e89@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/10/06, John W. Baxter <jwblist3 at olympus.net> wrote:
> So the end of greylisting as a useful tool is approaching (I'm surprised it
> has survived this long).

I understand this point. I think that greylisting should persist, in
any case, since, if nothing else, it doubles the work a spammer has to
do; and on the scale they work, that's a lot.


Personally, I'd like to see hashcash become widespread, but I guess
that'd be hell for a mailing list.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Nov 10 18:54:24 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:54:24 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and exim4
In-Reply-To: <52398.55729.qm@web60116.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <6fbe3da00611100748o7023437du9dcbc1886b0b73cf@mail.gmail.com>
	<52398.55729.qm@web60116.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611100954i54eace4ch3fbc373ee0da086@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/10/06, Eric Walker <sli1que at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I am running Debian as I said before so these directions don't apply. No
> disrespect but I am using this list because I have called myself reading
> many documents about install of mailman and exim4 on debian and I am at wits
> ends.... Do you have anything that closer resembles my current setup?

Section 7 <http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/customizing.html>
indicates that configuration options are well-documented in the
Defaults.py, which addresses 'It says I need to at least set
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_HOST. What do I set these too.'

Section 13 <http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node45.html>
answers 'how do I send mail to everyone who is a member of the test
list?'

You don't need documentation that's specific to Debian and exim (FWIW,
I much prefer postfix to exim). You need documentation that covers the
basics of using and administering Mailman, which is what the linked
install guide does.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 10 18:57:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:57:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and exim4
In-Reply-To: <571913.72172.qm@web60113.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006111009574606871b1c9f7d@msapiro>

Eric Walker wrote:

>no one got any ideas?


7 hours and a bit is a rather short time to wait before pinging the
list for no response.


>So when I set up list say test at mydomain.com, how do I send mail to everyone who is a member of the test list?


I believe I answered this in my reply
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-November/054204.html>
to your original post. If you don't understand that reply, please ask
a more specific question.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Fri Nov 10 19:12:14 2006
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:12:14 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] connection refused by lists.
In-Reply-To: <005101c704d6$d8feacf0$64010a0a@shadefc0737047>
References: <005101c704d6$d8feacf0$64010a0a@shadefc0737047>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0611101204360.10176@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Gretchen at Ladyweave.com | 269-369-1114 wrote:

>
> A message to one of our lists didn't go through. Does the error message
> indicate a problem at the server or is it within the program? The list seems
> to be working fine now. Thanks for any advice you can give.
>
>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> <religious-educators at lists.cmwd-uua.org>... Deferred: Connection refused by
> lists.cmwd-uua.org.
> Message could not be delivered for 3 hours
> Message will be deleted from queue

Patrick already responded so I'll just add that it given "Connection
refused" that probably them mail server (not mailman) on
lists.cmwd-uua.org was not running. The server admin might have it down
for maintenance or some other reason. This is somewhat normal in the
scheme of things.

What is not normal is a sending server that gives up after a mere three
hours. Most mail servers try for four or five days since a system could be
down for a few days (e.g. a system dies Friday right after everyone leaves
for the day and is not noticed until Monday morning. Also, anecdotal
evidence suggest some sites turn off their servers over the weekend).

The sender who received this wouldn't by chance by on AOL? I've seen other
reports that indicate AOL gives up after three hours. A ridculously short
period of time and one that is guaranteed to generate a relatively large
number of bounces.

-- Larry Stone
   lstone19 at stonejongleux.com


From lorijh at sonic.net  Fri Nov 10 19:29:17 2006
From: lorijh at sonic.net (Lori Houston)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:29:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message fails to appear in archives
Message-ID: <4554C4FD.6090707@sonic.net>

I'm a non-developer with some mailman admin experience, although I've 
never set up a new list until recently.

My question: a few days ago I posted the first message to the list I set 
up and it does not appear in the archives. I have verified that people 
on the list received it, however. Why doesn't the message appear in the 
archive?

FYI, this is a cPanel hosted list, so I don't have command-line shell 
access.

-LH





From gretchen at ladyweave.com  Fri Nov 10 19:39:36 2006
From: gretchen at ladyweave.com (Gretchen at Ladyweave.com | 269-369-1114)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:39:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW:  connection refused by lists.
Message-ID: <002a01c704f7$92f0b430$64010a0a@shadefc0737047>

Aha. I thought as much. And indeed, the sender uses an AOL account.

Thanks, everyone, for the tips!

Gretchen 

-----Original Message-----
From: John W. Baxter [mailto:jwblist3 at olympus.net]
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 12:17 PM
To: Mailman Users
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] connection refused by lists.

On 11/10/06 7:26 AM, "Patrick Bogen" <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11/10/06, Gretchen at Ladyweave.com | 269-369-1114 
> <gretchen at ladyweave.com> wrote:
>> A message to one of our lists didn't go through. Does the error 
>> message indicate a problem at the server or is it within the program?
>> The list seems to be working fine now. Thanks for any advice you can
give.
>> 
>> <religious-educators at lists.cmwd-uua.org>... Deferred: Connection 
>> refused by lists.cmwd-uua.org.
>> Message could not be delivered for 3 hours Message will be deleted 
>> from queue
> 
> This was a problem with the MTA (e.g., postfix, sendmail, exim, qmail, 
> or something else) at lists.cmwd-uua.org, OR with whichever server was 
> trying to talk to it. The latter is probably not the case, but it MAY 
> be due to a network disruption if everything checks out on the MTA 
> level.
The sending MTA--aside from anything else--has a remarkably short retry
limit.  There are, for example, a bunch of school districts around here to
which they couldn't send mail on weekends as the districts shut their
servers down.  (The districts we send to most often have stopped doing
that.)

  --John






From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 10 19:50:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:50:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message fails to appear in archives
In-Reply-To: <4554C4FD.6090707@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611101050010250eca06f5b@msapiro>

Lori Houston wrote:
>
>My question: a few days ago I posted the first message to the list I set 
>up and it does not appear in the archives. I have verified that people 
>on the list received it, however. Why doesn't the message appear in the 
>archive?
>
>FYI, this is a cPanel hosted list, so I don't have command-line shell 
>access.


Are other lists on this server archiving properly?

Is archive set to Yes on the admin->Archiving options page for this
list?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lorijh at sonic.net  Fri Nov 10 19:39:15 2006
From: lorijh at sonic.net (Lori Houston)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:39:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message fails to appear in archives
In-Reply-To: <4554C4FD.6090707@sonic.net>
References: <4554C4FD.6090707@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4554C753.2000000@sonic.net>

BTW, I did search the mailman FAQ before posting this question ...

Lori Houston wrote:
> I'm a non-developer with some mailman admin experience, although I've 
> never set up a new list until recently.
>
> My question: a few days ago I posted the first message to the list I set 
> up and it does not appear in the archives. I have verified that people 
> on the list received it, however. Why doesn't the message appear in the 
> archive?
>
> FYI, this is a cPanel hosted list, so I don't have command-line shell 
> access.
>
> -LH
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lorijh%40sonic.net
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>
>
>   

-- 
Lori Houston | Communications Services
Writing | Editing | Web Content | Press Releases | Newsletters | Copywriting
lorijh at sonic.net | office: 707.528.9902 | cell: 707.569.6029 | fax: 707.324.6094




From CLopez at oas.org  Fri Nov 10 20:41:39 2006
From: CLopez at oas.org (Lopez, Carlos Andres)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:41:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error 550
Message-ID: <9CA36A3B60F5E9479BAB9A8A447762024C861D@STORK1.oas.org>

I'm a newbie...in Linux and mailman too....

...Does anyone know why i'm getting this error when i'm trying to send
and email to a mailing list?

Nov 10 12:35:04 2006 (31798) delivery to mailman-owner at lists.oas.org
failed with code 550: <mailman-owner at lists.oas.org>: Recipient address
rejected: User unknown in local recipient table.

How can I fix it??? Thanks...

This was taken from the /var/log/mailman/smtp-failure log.... Thanks for
you help...

 

Carlos A. Lopez

Office of Information Technology

Organization of American States

Washington DC

Phone: (202) 458 6341

Email: clopez at oas.org

 



From dlc at cs.appstate.edu  Fri Nov 10 19:02:50 2006
From: dlc at cs.appstate.edu (Darryl Cook)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:02:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman GUI
Message-ID: <20061110130250.gepu1h41wg4wk8ww@www.cs.appstate.edu>



   Im running mailman version 2.1.8 on Redhat ES v4. ? I have had it
running successfully for over 2 years now. ? Suddenly I am having
problems with the gui interface. ? Everything runs fine for lists
that are already created but the problem comes when trying to add a
new list.? I can add the list through the command line fine but if I
use the gui it just comes back to the same page without adding the
list. ? If I add the list by command line then the gui wont save any
changes to the configuration.? I dont get any error messages that I
can find either.

   I originally thought it to be a permission problem but the older
lists have the same permissions.? I have tried upgrading to 2.1.9 and
downgrading to 2.1.5 but they all act the same.

   Any ideas on where to look for this problem......thanks in advance!

   darryl


From lorijh at sonic.net  Fri Nov 10 21:25:10 2006
From: lorijh at sonic.net (Lori Houston)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:25:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message fails to appear in archives
In-Reply-To: <4554DFF3.8060704@sonic.net>
References: <PC1760200611101050010250eca06f5b@msapiro>
	<4554DFF3.8060704@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4554E026.30902@sonic.net>


> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Lori Houston wrote:
>>   
>>> My question: a few days ago I posted the first message to the list I set 
>>> up and it does not appear in the archives. I have verified that people 
>>> on the list received it, however. Why doesn't the message appear in the 
>>> archive?
>>>
>>> FYI, this is a cPanel hosted list, so I don't have command-line shell 
>>> access.
>>>     
>>
>>
>> Are other lists on this server archiving properly?
>>
>>   
> Don't know the answer to this ... This is on a server controlled by 
> the cPanel host. How would I check?
>
>> Is archive set to Yes on the admin->Archiving options page for this
>> list?
>>   
> Yes, that's the first thing I checked.
>
> -LH

-- 
Lori Houston | Communications Services
Writing | Editing | Web Content | Press Releases | Newsletters | Copywriting
lorijh at sonic.net | office: 707.528.9902 | cell: 707.569.6029 | fax: 707.324.6094



From md6969 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 10 21:35:56 2006
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 20:35:56 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Banning members
Message-ID: <4554E2AC.9050809@gmail.com>

I'm aware of the Mailman syntax for banning domains, but I'd like to ban 
members now whose email address *starts* with a given string! I've had a 
lot of requests lately from "debora" to join my list, always followed by 
something else before the "@" and at various domains. I tried following 
the format ^.*@004.com by using "debora^.*@*.*" but get an error when I 
try to submit the changes. Where am I going wrong?

Rgds

MD


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 10 21:48:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:48:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70611100730u67b82e49t8cebcb4e177f76f2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006111012480103907e0ed5e7@msapiro>

Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
>
>Please not the smtlib.py is the one given to me and smtlib.py.1 is the
>original one causing the problem.
>I posted the whole file to debian bug report also.


Your diff and the smtplib.py (the file you refer to above as
smtplib.py.1) you posted to the bug report confirm that this file is
essentially unchanged from the Python 2.3 base smtplib.py.

Therefore, I have to conclude that the symptom you see when you put
this in the Python library is due to the debug writes being to stdout
instead of stderr.

Thus, I think you still have the added

        self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1)

line in SMTPDirect.py. I think if you remove this line and then put the
original smtplib.py back in the python library (and to be sure, remove
the smtplib.pyc and smtplib.pyo to force a recompile), Mailman will
continue to send OK.

If this is the case, the original problem will have magically
disappeared. The only reason I can think of for this is that the
update that caused the problem may have had a corrupted smtplib.pyc
and/or smtplib.pyo.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 10 21:58:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:58:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message fails to appear in archives
In-Reply-To: <4554E026.30902@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602006111012582707967e0ed797@msapiro>

Lori Houston wrote:
>
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>>
>>> Are other lists on this server archiving properly?
>>>
>>>   
>> Don't know the answer to this ... This is on a server controlled by 
>> the cPanel host. How would I check?


Well, if you had any other lists on this server, you could look at
their archives, but that's obvious enough that I guess you only have
the one list.

You could try setting up another list as a test and see if that works,
but I suspect it won't either.

It is possible that Mailman's ArchiveRunner isn't running on the host,
but I think further debugging will have to be done by the hosting
service and/or cPanel (see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 10 22:11:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:11:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman GUI
In-Reply-To: <20061110130250.gepu1h41wg4wk8ww@www.cs.appstate.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602006111013114602657def3dd7@msapiro>

Darryl Cook wrote:
>
>Suddenly I am having
>problems with the gui interface. Everything runs fine for lists
>that are already created but the problem comes when trying to add a
>new list.  I can add the list through the command line fine but if I
>use the gui it just comes back to the same page without adding the
>list.  If I add the list by command line then the gui wont save any
>changes to the configuration.  I dont get any error messages that I
>can find either.


FAQ 4.45
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>
may help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 10 22:17:52 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:17:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error 550
In-Reply-To: <9CA36A3B60F5E9479BAB9A8A447762024C861D@STORK1.oas.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602006111013175207037def3f93@msapiro>

Lopez, Carlos Andres wrote:
>
>...Does anyone know why i'm getting this error when i'm trying to send
>and email to a mailing list?
>
>Nov 10 12:35:04 2006 (31798) delivery to mailman-owner at lists.oas.org
>failed with code 550: <mailman-owner at lists.oas.org>: Recipient address
>rejected: User unknown in local recipient table.
>
>How can I fix it??? Thanks...
>
>This was taken from the /var/log/mailman/smtp-failure log.... Thanks for
>you help...


Your MTA is unable to deliver to the mailman-owner at lists.oas.org
address.

I am only guessing here for lack of information, but my guess is the
post was received and held (check the admindb interface) and the
attempt to notify the owner is failing.

Depending on your MTA and how it delivers to Mailman, something is
missing from the MTA's aliases or the MTA's configuration.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 10 22:27:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:27:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Banning members
In-Reply-To: <4554E2AC.9050809@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611101327060265875adeaf@msapiro>

Martin Dennett wrote:

>I'm aware of the Mailman syntax for banning domains, but I'd like to ban 
>members now whose email address *starts* with a given string! I've had a 
>lot of requests lately from "debora" to join my list, always followed by 
>something else before the "@" and at various domains. I tried following 
>the format ^.*@004.com by using "debora^.*@*.*" but get an error when I 
>try to submit the changes. Where am I going wrong?


The '^' character in these expressions serves two purposes. As the
*initial* character, it tells Mailman that this is a regular
expression and not a literal address, and as part of the regular
expression, it matches the beginning of the string. Thus
"debora^.*@*.*" will be interpreted as a literal email address which
is invalid, thus the error. What you need is "^debora.*@.*\..*" or
more simply, just "^debora.*", or even "^debora". See
<http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dbrva at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 10 22:42:50 2006
From: dbrva at yahoo.com (David Boothe)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:42:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unhide and list users...
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006111013175207037def3f93@msapiro>
Message-ID: <68876.96367.qm@web55101.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

I have a list where all the subscriber address are marked hide.  I'd like to fetch a subscriber list that I can save as a text file locally if possible.  I believe that if I can mass unhide the subscribers and then send a request of some sorts to the list then it will send me the subscribers in a reply.  Can someone tell me how to go about doing this please?
   
  Thanks
   

 
---------------------------------
Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 10 23:06:53 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:06:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unhide and list users...
In-Reply-To: <68876.96367.qm@web55101.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611101406530921eca0722e@msapiro>

David Boothe wrote:

>I have a list where all the subscriber address are marked hide.  I'd like to fetch a subscriber list that I can save as a text file locally if possible.  I believe that if I can mass unhide the subscribers and then send a request of some sorts to the list then it will send me the subscribers in a reply.  Can someone tell me how to go about doing this please?


There is no "mass unhide" function per se. If you have command line
access, you can use bin/list_members to get a membership list and you
can run the withlist script at the end of this post to unhide all
members.

Be sure to change the default for new members on the General Options
page so they aren't hidden.

If you don't have command line access, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>.
You can use one of the scripts that retrieve the membership from the
web admin interface. Once you have a membership list, you can use the
unhide.py script at
<http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb> to unhide
the members.

Here's a withlist script if you have command line access.

Cut here --------------------------------------------------
"""Set all members of a list to be 'unhidden'.

Save as bin/set_unhide.py

Run via

   bin/withlist -r set_unhide <listname>
"""

from Mailman import mm_cfg

def set_unhide(mlist):
    if not mlist.Locked():
        mlist.Lock()
    for member in mlist.getMembers():
        mlist.setMemberOption(member, mm_cfg.ConcealSubscription, 0)
    mlist.Save()
    mlist.Unlock()
Cut here ---------------------------------------------------

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From md6969 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 10 23:21:37 2006
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 22:21:37 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Banning members
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611101327060265875adeaf@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200611101327060265875adeaf@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4554FB71.60100@gmail.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Martin Dennett wrote:
>
>   
>> I'm aware of the Mailman syntax for banning domains, but I'd like to ban 
>> members now whose email address *starts* with a given string! I've had a 
>> lot of requests lately from "debora" to join my list, always followed by 
>> something else before the "@" and at various domains. I tried following 
>> the format ^.*@004.com by using "debora^.*@*.*" but get an error when I 
>> try to submit the changes. Where am I going wrong?
>>     
>
>
> The '^' character in these expressions serves two purposes. As the
> *initial* character, it tells Mailman that this is a regular
> expression and not a literal address, and as part of the regular
> expression, it matches the beginning of the string. Thus
> "debora^.*@*.*" will be interpreted as a literal email address which
> is invalid, thus the error. What you need is "^debora.*@.*\..*" or
> more simply, just "^debora.*", or even "^debora". See
> <http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html>.
Thanks as usual, Mark. Page bookmarked for future reference.

On a totally different tack, is there any list available for future 
"wants" for the software? I have a couple of things that I think may be 
useful, and would like to know if there's anyway I can make them known?

Rgds

MD


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 10 23:33:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:33:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature Requests (was: Banning members)
In-Reply-To: <4554FB71.60100@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611101433490234eca06f7b@msapiro>

Martin Dennett wrote:
>
>On a totally different tack, is there any list available for future 
>"wants" for the software? I have a couple of things that I think may be 
>useful, and would like to know if there's anyway I can make them known?


Feature requests can be submitted to the tracker at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1586072&group_id=103&atid=350103>,
but we prefer they be added as comments to the new wiki page at
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+2.2>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ge at linuxbox.org  Sat Nov 11 00:06:16 2006
From: ge at linuxbox.org (Gadi Evron)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:06:16 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Banning members
In-Reply-To: <4554FB71.60100@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0611101704280.27910-100000@linuxbox.org>

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Martin Dennett wrote:
> On a totally different tack, is there any list available for future 
> "wants" for the software? I have a couple of things that I think may be 
> useful, and would like to know if there's anyway I can make them known?

Actually, we are all thankful for mailman. But we are users "in the
trenches" using mailman.

Maybe we should post a survey to the list for the 3 most desired
funciotnality wishes, and then post the results in "ten most
requested" poll yet again, to the public.

Let the public vote on what it needs? :)

	Gadi.



From tastyguy23 at hotmail.com  Sat Nov 11 01:14:00 2006
From: tastyguy23 at hotmail.com (Eric Michaels)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:14:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installation on a current mail  system
Message-ID: <BAY13-F5740A4CE4185501D90BCECEF60@phx.gbl>

Just want confirmation before moving forward. We ran a test setup Redhat 
8/Sendmail and Mailman is working great. Now I have to repeat the setup on a 
current linux box that handles our mail scrubbing. So I would like to 
install Mailman on a production sendmail box that we scrub emails with 
Spamassassin before passing internally.

Will installing Mailman interfere with any of the operations of the current 
system? We still want the system to handle the mail sent to those designated 
domains, and I was going to set up the Mailman domains (it handles two) in 
Sendmail and hosts.

Would I need to run virtual servers, or can Mailman co-exist with Sendmail 
that handles 'regular' mail. Any other caveats I should know about?

TIA,

Steve

_________________________________________________________________
All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC.  Get a free 90-day trial! 
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail



From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Nov 11 02:23:32 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 10:23:32 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00611100949o4eb1735ayef4616e5c6042e89@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20061110085608.0668a750@crimson-dragon.com>
	<C179F5EC.FE1F%jwblist3@olympus.net>
	<6fbe3da00611100949o4eb1735ayef4616e5c6042e89@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87bqnelqsr.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Patrick Bogen writes:

 > Personally, I'd like to see hashcash become widespread, but I guess
 > that'd be hell for a mailing list.

As I understand it, hashcash is just a totally unprofitable use of
cycles, which is bearable for personal mail, but substantially
increases the burden on mass mail.  While such waste for the purpose
of creating incentives is often effective, in this case I believe it
is not for three reasons.

First, spamming is a business, it has revenues with which to defray
such costs.  My project does not; if hashcash cycles becomes annoying
to my host, I'll just stop sending to hashcash users.  This is an arms
race, it has no physical upper limit on cost.  It is not obvious to me
that in the end the Commies will turn to democracy in the spam arms
race; remember, the Soviet Union broke up because the West
out-businessed them.

The second is that for a bounded cost[1], you can implement signed mail.
With current technology this is something of a cost, but for spammers
it's pure cost, for the rest of us it's arguably a fringe benefit much
of the time.  This is much more effective where usable, because the
signature identifies the sender to some degree, which spammers do not
want.

The third is that hashcash, like challenge-response, has a troublesome
analogy to spamming.  You're setting up a system, or "club" if you
prefer, that uses outsiders' resources *without their prior agreement*
to achieve a personal goal.  If you are in a position to get that
agreement, why not just use signed mail?

The real attraction to hashcash as I understand it is simply that you
don't have to educate users, it can be implemented without them even
knowing it happens.  But until we start educating users, or providing
them systems which make their mail usage appear educated to the
system, the spam problem will not be soluble (where my definition of
solution includes operation of public access mailing lists on a
volunteer basis.).

Cheers,
Steve


Footnotes: 
[1]  At any given level of technology.  Agreed, this cost will
increase over time as acceptable levels of security require more bits
in the keys, but with present technology, this is not a price the
spammers can afford to pay to drive up costs for the rest of us.



From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Nov 11 03:38:40 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 20:38:40 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] deleting "pending for approval" from commandline
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611100932200609483f9dd5@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200611100932200609483f9dd5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240503c17ae80fb196@[10.0.1.11]>

At 9:32 AM -0800 11/10/06, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  I updated FAQ 4.74 to use bin/discard instead of rm and to explain why.

And I updated it to do an explicit "-print" with the find command, 
since not all versions of the find command will automatically do a 
"-print".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Nov 11 03:37:27 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 20:37:27 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061110085608.0668a750@crimson-dragon.com>
References: <20061110165916.61CC57AE@mail.tuunq.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.21.0611101050580.27910-100000@linuxbox.org>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20061110085608.0668a750@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <p06240502c17ae5d32b8c@[10.0.1.11]>

At 9:07 AM -0800 11/10/06, Dragon wrote:

>  This begs the question, why can you NOT afford to filter some lists?

You must not recognize the name.  Gadi is not quite as well known in 
the security field as Bruce Schneier, but he's close.


I recognize the name, and I understand the pain that Gadi is going 
through.  He's running some mailing lists (many of which are 
private/by-invitation-only, I'm sure), where people discuss a variety 
of security-related topics, including things like botnet infections, 
the types of messages that the botnet members will send out, etc....

In other words, a great deal of the content of certain lists would 
look pretty much exactly like spam to a dumb tool like SpamAssassin, 
because it *is* spam.  Well, it's actually a discussion *about* spam, 
with real-world examples.


The real problem here is how do you run a mailing list system where 
Internet security professionals with twenty or thirty years of 
experience can get together and intelligently discuss a variety of 
subjects (including spam), while being able to protect that list 
against modern types of abuse.

I'm not sure you can do that with the typical types of "dumb" tools 
that are normally discussed on mailing lists like this.  SpamAssassin 
(or something like it) is more than enough for 99.99999% of the 
people out there, but if you really are one of those "beyond six 
sigma" types, what do you do?

>  I've found that since we implemented gray-listing and spam-assassin
>  and ClamAV on my server, I get maybe one Spam mail slipping through
>  to mailman each month. Most times, it is completely spam-free and the
>  only moderation request I get are for members trying to post to a
>  member's only list from an alternative e-mail address.

That's great, and you're ahead of 99% of the rest of the people on 
this list.  The problem is that Gadi is so far beyond that level that 
you don't even know his name.

Hell, I'm not sure that I can come up to his level, but I do at least 
recognize his name and the sort of problem that I'm pretty sure he's 
facing.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Nov 11 03:44:38 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 20:44:38 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installation on a current mail  system
In-Reply-To: <BAY13-F5740A4CE4185501D90BCECEF60@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY13-F5740A4CE4185501D90BCECEF60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <p06240504c17ae903eac3@[10.0.1.11]>

At 5:14 PM -0700 11/10/06, Eric Michaels wrote:

>  Will installing Mailman interfere with any of the operations of the current
>  system? We still want the system to handle the mail sent to those designated
>  domains, and I was going to set up the Mailman domains (it handles two) in
>  Sendmail and hosts.

Mailman isn't going to do anything that is not explicitly directed to 
it.  Mailman does not listen on port 25, or any other port, so it's 
not going to screw up any incoming traffic.

Unless you configure your web server to explicitly know about Mailman 
and to give it certain traffic meeting certain URL patterns, no one 
will ever be able to see a Mailman-related web page.

Unless you configure your mail server to explicitly know about 
Mailman and to give it certain mail messages, no one will ever be 
able to send a mail message to Mailman.

>  Would I need to run virtual servers, or can Mailman co-exist with Sendmail
>  that handles 'regular' mail. Any other caveats I should know about?

There shouldn't be any additional risk here.  No additional "virtual 
servers" should be required.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Nov 11 03:51:55 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 20:51:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10611101121120.19505-100000@james.hwcn.org>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10611101121120.19505-100000@james.hwcn.org>
Message-ID: <p06240505c17ae9ce1a76@[10.0.1.11]>

At 11:45 AM -0500 11/10/06, Charles Gregory wrote:

>  The point *I* got was, even if you successfully filter with every 'safe'
>  method of spam filtering we can imagine, roughly 5-10% of spam will end up
>  reaching mailman, and when mailman sends its 'routine' message back to
>  'sender', it is generating backscatter that is cause for blacklisting.

Yup.  That's an issue to be concerned about.

Right now, the standard version of Mailman effectively gives you a 
limited set of options:

	1.  Generate a response message to the claimed sender, which
	might potentially be a response to a forged spam sender, and
	thus would be backscatter.

	2.  Don't generate a response, and hold for moderation.

	3.  Don't generate a response, and throw the message away.

So, if you're running a mailing list, you've got to decide which is 
the lesser evil for you and your list participants, and take the 
appropriate action when choosing between which particular evil you 
are going to go with.

>  The only suggestion I can come up with is some simple last-minute
>  filtering within mailman itself: Only send a 'holding' notice if the
>  visible 'From' header matches the Envelope Sender, and if the visibile
>  'To' address contains the mailman list address. The advantage to handling
>  this within mailman, and not in spamassassin, is that you aren't choosing
>  to discard the mail based on this criteria. You're just deciding whether
>  to send a courtesy e-mail warning of moderation.

This is an excellent idea, and I'd like to see this get included as 
another option.

Can you file this an RFE for this on the appropriate page on 
SourceForge, or in the wiki?  Would you have the ability to share 
with us the code that you developed to implement this function?  If 
so, could you upload that as a patch to the appropriate page on 
SourceForge, or post it on the wiki?

>  Of course, you could simply choose not to send any warnings at all. Let
>  people who try to post figure it out for themselves. A good list home
>  page, and/or disclaimers at the bottom of list mail should help with this.

This may work for some communities, but since Internet e-mail is an 
inherently unreliable process, the only way a poster can be sure that 
his message did or did not get delivered is if they get an explicitly 
acknowledgment (or nack) of some sort.

The problem is that we can't confirm the claimed identity of the 
sender, so sending back a nack could be dangerous.  But so could 
failing to send a nack when we throw away a message.

You've got to decide which is the lesser evil for you and your 
participants, but so far I like your alternative option better than 
any of the options currently implemented in Mailman.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Nov 11 03:54:35 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 20:54:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <20061110165916.61CC57AE@mail.tuunq.com>
References: <20061110165916.61CC57AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <p06240506c17aeb6f7c04@[10.0.1.11]>

At 8:59 AM -0800 11/10/06, Carl Zwanzig wrote:

>  I'm not sure how this fails a reality test. Are any anti-spam measures
>  in place currently?

If you're going to run a list where people talk about spam, and use 
real-world examples, then you can't do spam filtering on that list -- 
tools like SpamAssassin just aren't intelligent enough to tell the 
difference between a real spam message and someone having a 
legitimate meta discussion regarding some spam message.

>                             If not, mailman is certainly not the place to
>  start. That place is the incoming mail MTA.  (If you run your own servers,
>  installing spamassassin shoundn't take too much time. If you're using a
>  hosting server, then they should already have spam filters in place. If
>  they don't/can't you might consider a service that does.)

For what Gadi is doing, none of the above is relevant.

>  Please search the mailman user's list archives, there have been many
>  discussions about spam handling.

Again, you need to understand more about the level at which Gadi is 
operating.  See my other message to Patrick about this.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Nov 11 03:57:55 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 20:57:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061110093746.066f03a0@crimson-dragon.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20061110085608.0668a750@crimson-dragon.com>
	<C179F5EC.FE1F%jwblist3@olympus.net>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20061110093746.066f03a0@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <p06240507c17aebfe9d83@[10.0.1.11]>

At 9:40 AM -0800 11/10/06, Dragon wrote:

>  True, and there will always be an arms race between spammers and
>  those of us who run servers to try to protect ourselves from unwanted junk.

Yup.

>  But certain approaches are still quite effective and we should still
>  be utilizing them when appropriate. Hopefully, the good guys will be
>  able to keep ahead of the technology curve to put the screw to the bad guys.

Speaking as one of the "good guys", I can tell you that we are losing 
the war.  I've written a series of articles to be published on the 
LOPSA.ORG website on the current state-of-the-art with regards to 
fighting spam, and I can tell you that it's not pretty.


The bad guys keep getting more and more resources that they can 
casually throw at any problem, and we keep getting pushed further and 
further into the corner on the defenses that exist and which can be 
employed.

We're losing, and we're losing badly.  And the situation is only 
going to get a lot worse.  Right now, most of the possible solutions 
I've seen have been as bad or worse than the disease.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Nov 11 04:01:38 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 21:01:38 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00611100949o4eb1735ayef4616e5c6042e89@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20061110085608.0668a750@crimson-dragon.com>
	<C179F5EC.FE1F%jwblist3@olympus.net>
	<6fbe3da00611100949o4eb1735ayef4616e5c6042e89@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240508c17aecbcca29@[10.0.1.11]>

At 11:49 AM -0600 11/10/06, Patrick Bogen wrote:

>>  So the end of greylisting as a useful tool is approaching (I'm surprised it
>>  has survived this long).
>
>  I understand this point. I think that greylisting should persist, in
>  any case, since, if nothing else, it doubles the work a spammer has to
>  do; and on the scale they work, that's a lot.

Nope.  It's trivially easy for them to track which sites have 
resulted in a tempfail, and then to retry those messages an hour 
later.

Keep in mind that they have botnets of millions or tens of millions 
of machines, and they effectively have more CPU cycles and network 
bandwidth than anyone else on the planet.


Trust me, you *WILL* lose.  The question is by how much you will 
lose.  And how hard you will fight to continue to tread water at that 
level.  And when they throw ten times as much resources at you next 
week, are you willing to work ten times as hard to continue to tread 
water?  And when they throw a hundred times as much resources at you 
the week following, what then?

>  Personally, I'd like to see hashcash become widespread, but I guess
>  that'd be hell for a mailing list.

Not scalable for large quantities of legitimate users, and doesn't 
pose any real significant cost burden for spammers, since they have 
unlimited CPU power at their disposal.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Nov 11 04:08:56 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 21:08:56 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <87bqnelqsr.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20061110085608.0668a750@crimson-dragon.com>
	<C179F5EC.FE1F%jwblist3@olympus.net>
	<6fbe3da00611100949o4eb1735ayef4616e5c6042e89@mail.gmail.com>
	<87bqnelqsr.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240509c17aedbc064b@[10.0.1.11]>

At 10:23 AM +0900 11/11/06, stephen at xemacs.org wrote:

>  The second is that for a bounded cost[1], you can implement signed mail.

For dozens of years, we've been telling people that once they have 
enough RAM and fast enough disk drives, the single biggest bottleneck 
in scaling up large mail systems is the filesystem, and overhead with 
regards to sychronous meta-data updates.

Signed mail causes the CPU of the mail server to have to do expensive 
crypto calculations that are many, many orders of magnitude beyond 
anything that had ever been done in the past, on a per-message basis. 
With signed mail, no amount of RAM, or fast disk drives, or smart 
filesystems will save you.

You need high-speed crypto accelerators for web servers, because of 
all those encrypted SSL connections which are used for secure 
transactions.  And yet, those are still just the tiniest fraction of 
all web connections.  What happens when SSL is the default?  And 
that's on a per-connection basis, where each connection might be able 
to represent hundreds or thousands or millions of individual 
transactions/messages.  What happens when you have to do that level 
of crypto calculations on a per-message basis?


At that point, you might as well just shut down all Internet e-mail anyway.

>  With current technology this is something of a cost, but for spammers
>  it's pure cost, for the rest of us it's arguably a fringe benefit much
>  of the time.  This is much more effective where usable, because the
>  signature identifies the sender to some degree, which spammers do not
>  want.

Actually, spammers have totally unlimited CPU power available to 
them, so they might be the only ones on the planet who are able to 
handle doing signed e-mail for all messages.

It doesn't matter that the signed message is actually traceable back 
to a particular person, it just matters that it's signed.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From mailinglist at ltsai.com  Sat Nov 11 10:52:47 2006
From: mailinglist at ltsai.com (Tsai Li Ming)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 17:52:47 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting notified for subscription bounce
Message-ID: <45559D6F.1070006@ltsai.com>

Hi,

Is it possible for the list owner to get a bounce when the confirmation
emails does not get sent out to the subscribers, usually by a bounce or 550.

I have the following logs in my postfix but the owner is not getting any
bounces:

Nov 11 13:43:46 mail postfix/local[19345]: 313C22FED3:
to=<listname-bounces at example.com>,
orig_to=<listname-users-bounces at example.com>,
  relay=local, delay=0, status=sent (delivered to command:
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces listname)
Nov 11 13:43:46 mail postfix/qmgr[19329]: 313C22FED3: removed

I have the following settings in my bounce processing section:
bounce processing: Yes
bounce_score_threshold: 5.0
bounce_info_stale_after: 7
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings: 3
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval: 7
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner: Yes
bounce_notify_owner_on_disable: Yes
bounce_notify_owner_on_removal: Yes
	


Sending to listname-admin at example.com does generate an "Uncaught bounce
notification"


Regards,
Liming



From jam at jamux.com  Sat Nov 11 17:17:12 2006
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 11:17:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <p06240505c17ae9ce1a76@[10.0.1.11]> (Brad Knowles's message of
	"Fri, 10 Nov 2006 20:51:55 -0600")
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10611101121120.19505-100000@james.hwcn.org>
	<p06240505c17ae9ce1a76@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <871woa2c1j.fsf@athene.jamux.com>

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From msapiro at value.net  Sat Nov 11 18:11:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 09:11:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting notified for subscription bounce
In-Reply-To: <45559D6F.1070006@ltsai.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611110911430812627ef0d7@msapiro>

Tsai Li Ming wrote:
>
>Is it possible for the list owner to get a bounce when the confirmation
>emails does not get sent out to the subscribers, usually by a bounce or 550.


If you mean the email sent to the potential subscriber asking her/him
to confirm the subscription, the answer is no. See below for more
discussion.


>I have the following logs in my postfix but the owner is not getting any
>bounces:
>
>Nov 11 13:43:46 mail postfix/local[19345]: 313C22FED3:
>to=<listname-bounces at example.com>,
>orig_to=<listname-users-bounces at example.com>,
>  relay=local, delay=0, status=sent (delivered to command:
>/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces listname)
>Nov 11 13:43:46 mail postfix/qmgr[19329]: 313C22FED3: removed
>
>I have the following settings in my bounce processing section:
>bounce processing: Yes
>bounce_score_threshold: 5.0
>bounce_info_stale_after: 7
>bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings: 3
>bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval: 7
>bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner: Yes
>bounce_notify_owner_on_disable: Yes
>bounce_notify_owner_on_removal: Yes


Look in Mailman's 'bounce' log.

Here's what happens with the above settings.

A bounce is returned to list-bounces. If it is not recognizable, it is
forwarded to the list owner (bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner:
Yes). If it is recognized, the bouncing address is determined. If this
address is not a list member, the bounce is ignored and nothing
further happens with this bounce. If the address is a list member, the
bounce is scored and logged in the bounce log. If it is the second or
subsequent bounce in the same day, it is logged only. If the score
reaches the threshold, the member's delivery is disabled and the owner
is notified (bounce_notify_owner_on_disable: Yes). The owner notice
contains a copy of the bounce DSN. This is the only time the owner
sees an actual DSN. A warning is also sent to the bouncing user.

After this point, processing is by cron/disabled which looks at members
with delivery disabled by bounce and sends additional warnings (at 7
day intervals) and ultimately removes the member if still disabled by
bounce after 21 days.

If a subscription confirmation request bounces, and the DSN is
recognized, it is ignored because the bouncing address is not yet a
list member.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mcjathan1 at xmission.com  Sat Nov 11 20:59:30 2006
From: mcjathan1 at xmission.com (McJathan)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 12:59:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman Installation - Can't Send Email to
 aNew List
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061103133510060948bdfccb@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061103133510060948bdfccb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45562BA2.5070301@xmission.com>

Mark (and anyone else who wants to jump in), my comments and questions 
are below in *bolded blue.*

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> mcjathan wrote:
>   
>> 1) Is our inability to send email to the lists due to the fact that the 
>> virtual db files aren't being populated?
>>     
>
>
> Maybe. Have you set up POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS in mm_cfg.py per
> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html>
>   
*Here is the text from the web-page that you reference (below)  My 
comments and questions will be interspersed in bolded blue.*

6.1.2 Virtual domains

Postfix 2.0 supports ``virtual alias domains'', essentially what used to 
be called ``Postfix-style virtual domains'' in earlier Postfix versions. 
To make virtual alias domains work with Mailman, you need to do some 
setup in both Postfix and Mailman. Mailman will write all virtual alias 
mappings to a file called, by default, 
/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman. It will also use *postmap* to 
create the *virtual-mailman.db* file that Postfix will actually use.

First, you need to set up the Postfix virtual alias domains as described 
in the Postfix documentation (see Postfix's |virtual(5)| manpage). Note 
that it's your responsibility to include the |virtual-alias.domain 
anything| line as described manpage; Mailman will not include this line 
in virtual-mailman. You are highly encouraged to make sure your virtual 
alias domains are working properly before integrating with Mailman.

*I stepped through http://www.postfix.org/virtual.5.html and we seem to 
have everything setup properly.  As a practical observation, we have 2 
virtual domain aliases each with multiple aliased and email from both 
internal and external addresses seem to be delivered without problem.*

Next, add a path to Postfix's virtual_alias_maps variable, pointing to 
the virtual-mailman file, e.g.:

    virtual_alias_maps = <your normal virtual alias files>,
        hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

assuming you've installed Mailman in the default location. If you're 
using an older version of Postfix which doesn't have the 
virtual_alias_maps variable, use the virtual_maps variable instead.

*From our Postfix main.cf file I checked the virtual_alias_maps entry.  
Here is our actual entry:
*

    *virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual.cf,
            hash:/usr/home/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
    *

*The mysql-virtual.cf file contains (among other entries):
*

    *table           = virtual
    select_field    = destination
    where_field     = email
    *

*The virtual-mailman file exists but is completely empty (zero bytes).  
In the same directory, there is also a file named virtual-mailman.db.  
Using the command "**db4.2_dump virtual-mailman.db", the contents on the 
db file is:*

    *VERSION=3
    format=bytevalue
    type=hash
    db_pagesize=4096
    HEADER=END
    DATA=END*

Next, in your mm_cfg.py file, you will want to set the variable 
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS to the list of virtual domains that 
Mailman should update. This may not be all of the virtual alias domains 
that your Postfix installation supports! The values in this list will be 
matched against the host_name attribute of mailing lists objects, and 
must be an exact match.

Here's an example. Say that Postfix is configured to handle the virtual 
domains |dom1.ain|, |dom2.ain|, and |dom3.ain|, and further that in your 
main.cf file you've got the following settings:

    myhostname = mail.dom1.ain
    mydomain = dom1.ain
    mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain
    virtual_alias_maps =
        hash:/some/path/to/virtual-dom1,
        hash:/some/path/to/virtual-dom2,
        hash:/some/path/to/virtual-dom2

*Here is our setup:
*

    *myhostname = mail.domain1.net
    mydomain = domain1.net
    mydestination =  $myhostname $mydomain
    virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual.cf,
            hash:/usr/home/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
    *

*Again, the **mysql-virtual.cf file seems to be properly setup because 
email sent to the virtual and aliased domains seems to work fine.  Also 
again, however, the virtual-mailman and virtual-mailman.db files are empty.
*

If in your virtual-dom1 file, you've got the following lines:

    dom1.ain  IGNORE
    @dom1.ain @mail.dom1.ain

this tells Postfix to deliver anything addressed to |dom1.ain| to the 
same mailbox at |mail.dom1.com|, its default destination.
*
This is where I get a bit lost, but I'll try to muddle through.  We 
don't actually have the virtual-domain1 file since we've implemented 
Postfix using mySQL.  Here are some possibly relevant entries from the 
database:
*

*From the table "alias" we have these entries:
*

    *alias (column title)
    * 	*destination (column title)
    *
    *postmaster
    * 	*postmaster at domain1.net
    *
    *root
    * 	*postmaster at domain1.net
    *

    *
    *

*From the table "transport" we have these entries:
*

    *domain (column title)* 	*destination (column title)*
    *domain1.net
    * 	*virtual:
    *
    *domain2.net* 	*virtual:*
    *domain3.com* 	*virtual:*

*From the table "virtual" we have these entries:
*

    *email (column title)* 	*destination (column title)*
    *domain1.net * 	*virtual:*
    *@alias1.com* 	*@domain2.net*
    *@alias2.com* 	*@domain2.net*
    *@alias3.com * 	*@domain2.net*
    *@alias4.info* 	*@domain2.ne*

In this case you would not include |dom1.ain| in 
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS because otherwise Mailman will write 
entries for mailing lists in the dom1.ain domain as

    mylist at dom1.ain         mylist
    mylist-request at dom1.ain mylist-request
    # and so on...

The more specific entries trump your more general entries, thus breaking 
the delivery of any |dom1.ain| mailing list.

*I'm completely lost here.*

However, you would include |dom2.ain| and |dom3.ain| in mm_cfg.py:

    POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['dom2.ain', 'dom3.ain']

Now, any list that Mailman creates in either of those two domains, will 
have the correct entries written to /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman.

*Here are the entries from our mm_cfg.py file:
*

    *from Defaults import *

    POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS=['domain1.net', 'domain2.net']
    MTA='Postfix'
    add_virtualhost('mail.domain1.net', 'domain1.net')
    MAILMAN_SITE_LIST='mailman'*

As above with the data/aliases* files, you want to make sure that both 
data/virtual-mailman and data/virtual-mailman.db are user and group 
owned by |mailman|.

*Here are the permissions of all files in the mailman/data/ directory:
*

    *-rw-r-----   1 root    mailman    41 Oct 18 16:20 adm.pw
    -rw-rw----   1 mailman mailman  3438 Nov  9 13:53 aliases
    -rw-rw----   1 mailman mailman 12288 Nov  9 13:53 aliases.db
    -rw-r-----   1 root    mailman    41 Oct 18 16:20 creator.pw
    -rw-r--r--   1 root    mailman    10 Oct 18 15:05 last_mailman_version
    -rw-rw----   1 mailman mailman     6 Oct 18 16:14 master-qrunner.pid
    -rw-r--r--   1 root    mailman 14114 Nov  3 00:44 sitelist.cfg
    -rw-rw-r--   1 mailman mailman     0 Nov  9 13:53 virtual-mailman
    -rw-rw-r--   1 mailman mailman 12288 Nov  9 13:53 virtual-mailman.db
    *

*Whew!  That's a lot of information.  Is any of it useful?  Can you 
suggest some corrections to our configuration?

Regards,  Jeff*




From mcjathan1 at xmission.com  Sat Nov 11 22:13:41 2006
From: mcjathan1 at xmission.com (McJathan)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 14:13:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman Installation - Can't Send Email to
 aNew List (reformatted)
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061103133510060948bdfccb@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061103133510060948bdfccb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45563D05.90007@xmission.com>

Mark (and anyone else who wants to jump in), my comments and questions
are below interspersed with the quotations.  My previous email with HTML 
formatting was stripped of most of the formatting.  Hopefully this email 
is better.

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> mcjathan wrote:
>   
>> 1) Is our inability to send email to the lists due to the fact that the 
>> virtual db files aren't being populated?
>>     
>
>
> Maybe. Have you set up POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS in mm_cfg.py per
> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html>
>   

I've quoted the entire web-page that you cite.  My comments and 
questions are interspersed.

> 6.1.2 Virtual domains
> 
> Postfix 2.0 supports ``virtual alias domains'', essentially what used to 
> be called ``Postfix-style virtual domains'' in earlier Postfix versions. 
> To make virtual alias domains work with Mailman, you need to do some 
> setup in both Postfix and Mailman. Mailman will write all virtual alias 
> mappings to a file called, by default, 
> /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman. It will also use *postmap* to 
> create the *virtual-mailman.db* file that Postfix will actually use.
> 
> First, you need to set up the Postfix virtual alias domains as described 
> in the Postfix documentation (see Postfix's |virtual(5)| manpage). Note 
> that it's your responsibility to include the |virtual-alias.domain 
> anything| line as described manpage; Mailman will not include this line 
> in virtual-mailman. You are highly encouraged to make sure your virtual 
> alias domains are working properly before integrating with Mailman.

I stepped through http://www.postfix.org/virtual.5.html and we seem to
have everything setup properly.  As a practical observation, we have 2
virtual domain aliases each with multiple aliases,  and email from both
internal and external addresses seem to be delivered without problem to 
all virtual and aliased domains.

> Next, add a path to Postfix's virtual_alias_maps variable, pointing to 
> the virtual-mailman file, e.g.:
> 
>     virtual_alias_maps = <your normal virtual alias files>,
>         hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
> 
> assuming you've installed Mailman in the default location. If you're 
> using an older version of Postfix which doesn't have the 
> virtual_alias_maps variable, use the virtual_maps variable instead.

 From our Postfix main.cf file I checked the virtual_alias_maps entry.
Here is our actual entry:

     virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual.cf,
             hash:/usr/home/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

The mysql-virtual.cf file contains (among other entries):

     table           = virtual
     select_field    = destination
     where_field     = email

The virtual-mailman file exists but is completely empty (zero bytes).
In the same directory, there is also a file named virtual-mailman.db.
Using the command "db4.2_dump virtual-mailman.db", the contents on the
db file are:

     VERSION=3
     format=bytevalue
     type=hash
     db_pagesize=4096
     HEADER=END
     DATA=END

> Next, in your mm_cfg.py file, you will want to set the variable 
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS to the list of virtual domains that 
> Mailman should update. This may not be all of the virtual alias domains 
> that your Postfix installation supports! The values in this list will be 
> matched against the host_name attribute of mailing lists objects, and 
> must be an exact match.
> 
> Here's an example. Say that Postfix is configured to handle the virtual 
> domains |dom1.ain|, |dom2.ain|, and |dom3.ain|, and further that in your 
> main.cf file you've got the following settings:
> 
>     myhostname = mail.dom1.ain
>     mydomain = dom1.ain
>     mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain
>     virtual_alias_maps =
>         hash:/some/path/to/virtual-dom1,
>         hash:/some/path/to/virtual-dom2,
>         hash:/some/path/to/virtual-dom2

Here is our setup:

     myhostname = mail.domain1.net
     mydomain = domain1.net
     mydestination =  $myhostname $mydomain
     virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual.cf,
             hash:/usr/home/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

Again, the mysql-virtual.cf file seems to be properly setup because
email sent to the virtual and aliased domains seems to work fine.  Also
again, however, the virtual-mailman and virtual-mailman.db files are empty.

> If in your virtual-dom1 file, you've got the following lines:
> 
>     dom1.ain  IGNORE
>     @dom1.ain @mail.dom1.ain
> 
> this tells Postfix to deliver anything addressed to |dom1.ain| to the 
> same mailbox at |mail.dom1.com|, its default destination.

This is where I get a bit lost, but I'll try to muddle through.  We
don't actually have the virtual-domain1 file since we've implemented
Postfix using mySQL.  Here are some possibly relevant entries from the
database:

 From the table "alias" we have these entries:

     alias (column title)          destination (column title)
     postmaster                    postmaster at domain1.net
     root                          postmaster at domain1.net

 From the table "transport" we have these entries:

     domain (column title)         destination (column title)*
     domain1.net                   virtual:
     domain2.net                   virtual:
     domain3.com                   virtual:

 From the table "virtual" we have these entries:

     email (column title)          destination (column title)
     *domain1.net                  virtual:
     *@alias1.com                  @domain2.net
     *@alias2.com                  @domain2.net
     *@alias3.com                  @domain2.net
     *@alias4.info                 @domain2.net

> In this case you would not include |dom1.ain| in 
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS because otherwise Mailman will write 
> entries for mailing lists in the dom1.ain domain as
> 
>     mylist at dom1.ain         mylist
>     mylist-request at dom1.ain mylist-request
>     # and so on...
> 
> The more specific entries trump your more general entries, thus breaking 
> the delivery of any |dom1.ain| mailing list.

I'm completely lost here.

> However, you would include |dom2.ain| and |dom3.ain| in mm_cfg.py:
> 
>     POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['dom2.ain', 'dom3.ain']
> 
> Now, any list that Mailman creates in either of those two domains, will 
> have the correct entries written to /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman.

Here are the entries from our mm_cfg.py file:

     from Defaults import

     POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS=['domain1.net', 'domain2.net']
     MTA='Postfix'
     add_virtualhost('mail.domain1.net', 'domain1.net')
     MAILMAN_SITE_LIST='mailman'*

> As above with the data/aliases* files, you want to make sure that both 
> data/virtual-mailman and data/virtual-mailman.db are user and group 
> owned by |mailman|.

Here are the permissions of all files in the mailman/data/ directory:


-rw-r-----   1 root    mailman    41 Oct 18 16:20 adm.pw
-rw-rw----   1 mailman mailman  3438 Nov  9 13:53 aliases
-rw-rw----   1 mailman mailman 12288 Nov  9 13:53 aliases.db
-rw-r-----   1 root    mailman    41 Oct 18 16:20 creator.pw
-rw-r--r--   1 root    mailman    10 Oct 18 15:05 last_mailman_version
-rw-rw----   1 mailman mailman     6 Oct 18 16:14 master-qrunner.pid
-rw-r--r--   1 root    mailman 14114 Nov  3 00:44 sitelist.cfg
-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman mailman     0 Nov  9 13:53 virtual-mailman
-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman mailman 12288 Nov  9 13:53 virtual-mailman.db


Whew!  That's a lot of information.  Is any of it useful?  Can you
suggest some corrections to our configuration?

Regards,  Jeff


From md6969 at gmail.com  Sat Nov 11 22:42:28 2006
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 21:42:28 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Banning members
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611101433490234eca06f7b@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200611101433490234eca06f7b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <455643C4.80206@gmail.com>

Having added ^debora*@.*\..* to the "List of addresses which are banned 
from membership in this mailing list.", I've still got 3 "debora" 
addresses to approve. Do you have any ideas?

MD


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Nov 11 23:06:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 14:06:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Banning members
In-Reply-To: <455643C4.80206@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061111140640064034333108@msapiro>

Martin Dennett wrote:

>Having added ^debora*@.*\..* to the "List of addresses which are banned 
>from membership in this mailing list.", I've still got 3 "debora" 
>addresses to approve. Do you have any ideas?


Your RE is missing a dot. It says 'debor' followed by zero or more 'a'
followed by '@'.

You want ^debora.*@.*\..*

However just ^debora will do the same thing and is much simpler. It
will match any address beginning with 'debora'. All you do with
^debora.*@.*\..* is require a '@' and a '.' somewhere after the '@'.
The address probably has these things, but it isn't necessary to test
for them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From alan at patriot.net  Sat Nov 11 21:47:18 2006
From: alan at patriot.net (Alan McConnell)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:47:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Difficulties with mailman 2.1.5
Message-ID: <20061111204718.GA3453@patriot.net>

I am the administrator of an E-list run by mailman at
my ISP, PatriotNet, and as admin I'm experiencing difficulties.
(PatriotNet has installed v 2.1.5)

These difficulties are, in ascending order of importance:

1.  It often takes two or more repetitions to log on to the 
administrative page.  I am always careful about typing my
password.

2.  When I go to the Membership Management/mass subscription
page to subscribe a new member, this subscription often does
not "take".  I get a nice screen saying "X is successfully
subscribed", and I get E-mail saying that "X has been subscribed",
but when I check it turns out that X is not in the list of
members.  I find it remarkable that confirmation messages are
sent out, without the file of list members having been successfully
written.

3.  Worst of all: I want messages sent by our members to be
sent also to the member that sent them.  This is not at present
occurring.  I have _not_ checked the button in
	General Options -- Additional Settings -- Do not send a
	copy of a member's own post

Also, in the Membership list, the entry "not metoo" has _not_
been checked.    I can find no other place where this behavior
can be changed.

I am cc-ing the support staff at patriot.net, since they will be
interested in any replies I get.  PatriotNet is a Linux shop, but 
I do not know what python version they are running.  I myself
have programming experience, but no acquaintance with python.

Many thanks for anticipated help.

Alan McConnell

-- 
Alan McConnell :  http://patriot.net/users/alan
    "The intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."
    Impeachment proceedings should be started immediately.


From md6969 at gmail.com  Sat Nov 11 23:16:19 2006
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 22:16:19 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Banning members
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061111140640064034333108@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061111140640064034333108@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45564BB3.90900@gmail.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Martin Dennett wrote:
>
>   
>> Having added ^debora*@.*\..* to the "List of addresses which are banned 
>>     
> >from membership in this mailing list.", I've still got 3 "debora" 
>   
>> addresses to approve. Do you have any ideas?
>>     
>
>
> Your RE is missing a dot. It says 'debor' followed by zero or more 'a'
> followed by '@'.
>
> You want ^debora.*@.*\..*
>
> However just ^debora will do the same thing and is much simpler. It
> will match any address beginning with 'debora'. All you do with
> ^debora.*@.*\..* is require a '@' and a '.' somewhere after the '@'.
> The address probably has these things, but it isn't necessary to test
> for them.
Ah, so that's where I went wrong. I'll go with the ^debora option, and 
hope that I don't get a valid "Debora" wanting to join the list!

Rgds

MD


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Nov 12 02:56:36 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 19:56:36 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <871woa2c1j.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10611101121120.19505-100000@james.hwcn.org>
	<p06240505c17ae9ce1a76@[10.0.1.11]> <871woa2c1j.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
Message-ID: <p06240501c17c2f657aaa@[10.0.1.11]>

At 11:17 AM -0500 11/11/06, John A. Martin wrote:

>  Perhaps amend Charles' suggestion to also provide a response when a
>  specified regular expression is found in the message header.

On first blush, it's hard to see how this would be useful.

>  Please consider this amendment to Charles' suggestion without arguing
>  the merits of SPF here.  This is only one example of using a header
>  field to augment Charles' original suggestion.

Umm, yeah.  I think you know me well enough to know what my views on 
SPF are, but on the other hand this does demonstrate the utility of 
the feature you're asking for.

I wouldn't have used SPF as the example here, but I take your point.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Nov 12 02:57:41 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 19:57:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman Installation - Can't Send Email to
 aNew List
In-Reply-To: <45562BA2.5070301@xmission.com>
References: <PC176020061103133510060948bdfccb@msapiro>
	<45562BA2.5070301@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <p06240502c17c2ff69c9b@[10.0.1.11]>

At 12:59 PM -0700 11/11/06, McJathan wrote:

>  Mark (and anyone else who wants to jump in), my comments and questions
>  are below in *bolded blue.*

As you've found out, colors and styling don't survive well in Internet e-mail.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Nov 12 03:01:10 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 20:01:10 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman Installation - Can't Send Email to
 aNew List (reformatted)
In-Reply-To: <45563D05.90007@xmission.com>
References: <PC176020061103133510060948bdfccb@msapiro>
	<45563D05.90007@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <p06240503c17c3050b1d5@[10.0.1.11]>

At 2:13 PM -0700 11/11/06, McJathan wrote:


>  This is where I get a bit lost, but I'll try to muddle through.  We
>  don't actually have the virtual-domain1 file since we've implemented
>  Postfix using mySQL.  Here are some possibly relevant entries from the
>  database:

I've read through your entire message, and your questions seem to be 
more related to how to get virtual domains working correctly in 
postfix using MySQL, and don't seem to have much to do with using 
Mailman in that context.

Have you tried asking your questions on the postfix-users list?

>  Whew!  That's a lot of information.  Is any of it useful?  Can you
>  suggest some corrections to our configuration?

I certainly don't have any suggestions for you, other than to make 
use of the various postfix-related resources to try to make sure that 
you do not have any disconnects between postfix and MySQL, and once 
you can confirm that all those non-Mailman problems have been 
resolved, we might be able to help you fix the remaining 
Mailman-specific issues.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Nov 12 03:08:39 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 20:08:39 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Difficulties with mailman 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <20061111204718.GA3453@patriot.net>
References: <20061111204718.GA3453@patriot.net>
Message-ID: <p06240504c17c30ead5d7@[10.0.1.11]>

At 3:47 PM -0500 11/11/06, Alan McConnell wrote:

>  1.  It often takes two or more repetitions to log on to the
>  administrative page.  I am always careful about typing my
>  password.

On first blush, this sounds a lot like the problem discussed in FAQ 
4.65 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.065.htp>. 
However, that problem would require you to always re-enter your 
password, as opposed to something that would always work on the 
second try.

You will also want to read the related FAQ entries 4.45 and 4.71 
(links included in the entry for FAQ 4.65 mentioned above).

>  2.  When I go to the Membership Management/mass subscription
>  page to subscribe a new member, this subscription often does
>  not "take".  I get a nice screen saying "X is successfully
>  subscribed", and I get E-mail saying that "X has been subscribed",
>  but when I check it turns out that X is not in the list of
>  members.  I find it remarkable that confirmation messages are
>  sent out, without the file of list members having been successfully
>  written.

My guess is that this is related to issue #1 above, and if you can 
get that problem fixed then this one seems that it would be likely to 
also go away.

>  3.  Worst of all: I want messages sent by our members to be
>  sent also to the member that sent them.  This is not at present
>  occurring.  I have _not_ checked the button in
>	General Options -- Additional Settings -- Do not send a
>	copy of a member's own post
>
>  Also, in the Membership list, the entry "not metoo" has _not_
>  been checked.    I can find no other place where this behavior
>  can be changed.

I'm not sure what to tell you.

You've checked the two things I know of to check, and yet you're 
seeing precisely the kind of behaviour we would expect when these 
features are used.

On this one, I have no idea what might be happening.

>  I am cc-ing the support staff at patriot.net, since they will be
>  interested in any replies I get.  PatriotNet is a Linux shop, but
>  I do not know what python version they are running.  I myself
>  have programming experience, but no acquaintance with python.

One thing that would help is if your ISP was running the latest 
version of Mailman -- we're now on version 2.1.9.  There have been a 
number of feature enhancements since version 2.1.4, and more 
importantly there have been a variety of critical security updates 
that have also been made.

Anyone running older code at this stage is leaving themselves wide 
open to vulnerabilities that could easily result in the entire 
machine being compromised, perhaps even by an automated rootkit tool.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From mcjathan1 at xmission.com  Sun Nov 12 12:19:53 2006
From: mcjathan1 at xmission.com (McJathan)
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 04:19:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman Installation - Can't Send Email to
 aNew List (reformatted)
In-Reply-To: <p06240503c17c3050b1d5@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <PC176020061103133510060948bdfccb@msapiro>
	<45563D05.90007@xmission.com> <p06240503c17c3050b1d5@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <45570359.2060902@xmission.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> I've read through your entire message, and your questions seem to be 
> more related to how to get virtual domains working correctly in 
> postfix using MySQL, and don't seem to have much to do with using 
> Mailman in that context.
>
> Have you tried asking your questions on the postfix-users list?

Hi Brad,  The virtual domains in Postfix seem to be working just fine.
We don't have any problems at all both sending and receiving regular
email.  I set out all our Postscript configuration mainly as background. 
  Our problem is with Mailman.  We can setup a Mailman list, add
subscribers, but when we send a message to the list we encounter an
error.  Please review again my very first message in this thread...

Regards,  Jeff



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Nov 12 17:21:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:21:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting notified for subscription bounce
In-Reply-To: <4556EF85.7020204@ltsai.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061112082156014006768704@msapiro>

Tsai Li Ming wrote:
>
>Lastly, can the list owner simply receives all bounces? If I remember 
>correctly, setting the bounce processing to No simply ignore all bounces?


Yes, setting bounce_processing to No ignores all bounces for the list.

You can forward all bounces to the list owner or anywhere else, by
changing the MTA aliases or whatever configuration definitions it uses
to deliver the -bounces address. You can't do it with Mailman settings.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Nov 12 18:02:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 09:02:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman Installation - Can't Send Email
	toaNew List (reformatted)
In-Reply-To: <45563D05.90007@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611120902330546bc427fa3@msapiro>

McJathan wrote:
>
>Here are the entries from our mm_cfg.py file:
>
>     from Defaults import
>
>     POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS=['domain1.net', 'domain2.net']
>     MTA='Postfix'
>     add_virtualhost('mail.domain1.net', 'domain1.net')
>     MAILMAN_SITE_LIST='mailman'*



Are the values for DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST from
Defaults.py those for the domain2.net domain? If not, you need to set
them in mm_cfg.py and clear the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary of the entry
from Defaults.py and have add_virtualhost() lines for the default
domain and each additional domain. See, e.g., the beginning of
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>.

Also, it looks like 

     add_virtualhost('mail.domain1.net', 'domain1.net')

may be backwards - the web domain is first and the email domain is
second.

If you need to make changes to these in mm_cfg.py, you probably also
need to run fix_url as described later in FAQ 4.29 or in
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>.


The fact that you have nothing in virtual-mailman after running
bin/genaliases and/or creating lists indicates you have no lists whose
host_name attribute is in the POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jam at jamux.com  Sun Nov 12 18:11:27 2006
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:11:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c17c2f657aaa@[10.0.1.11]> (Brad Knowles's message of
	"Sat, 11 Nov 2006 19:56:36 -0600")
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10611101121120.19505-100000@james.hwcn.org>
	<p06240505c17ae9ce1a76@[10.0.1.11]> <871woa2c1j.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<p06240501c17c2f657aaa@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <87d57szj28.fsf@athene.jamux.com>

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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Nov 12 19:22:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:22:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Difficulties with mailman 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <p06240504c17c30ead5d7@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611121022360265a9b7156d@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 3:47 PM -0500 11/11/06, Alan McConnell wrote:




Brad has covered this pretty well, but here's a bit more.


>>  1.  It often takes two or more repetitions to log on to the
>>  administrative page.  I am always careful about typing my
>>  password.
>
>On first blush, this sounds a lot like the problem discussed in FAQ 
>4.65 at 
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.065.htp>. 
>However, that problem would require you to always re-enter your 
>password, as opposed to something that would always work on the 
>second try.


Does the login page report an "Authorization failed." error, and a
second or third try succeeds? If so, I don't think the FAQ articles
are applicable in this case. If you're sure you are entering the
password correctly with no extra spaces, I don't know what could cause
this on a regular basis. Does the URI in the browser address bar
change after the failure?


>You will also want to read the related FAQ entries 4.45 and 4.71 
>(links included in the entry for FAQ 4.65 mentioned above).
>
>>  2.  When I go to the Membership Management/mass subscription
>>  page to subscribe a new member, this subscription often does
>>  not "take".  I get a nice screen saying "X is successfully
>>  subscribed", and I get E-mail saying that "X has been subscribed",
>>  but when I check it turns out that X is not in the list of
>>  members.  I find it remarkable that confirmation messages are
>>  sent out, without the file of list members having been successfully
>>  written.
>
>My guess is that this is related to issue #1 above, and if you can 
>get that problem fixed then this one seems that it would be likely to 
>also go away.


As Brad suggests, this may be related to the first issue. The only way
I see that this can happen is if the actual write of the confirmation
screen by the CGI encounters an exception. In this case, the updated
list will not have been saved, however, if this were to occur, you
should see the "we hit a bug" screen instead of the confirmation
screen, and the error should be logged in Mailman's 'error' log. Are
there any tracebacks in the 'error' log?


 
>>  3.  Worst of all: I want messages sent by our members to be
>>  sent also to the member that sent them.  This is not at present
>>  occurring.  I have _not_ checked the button in
>>	General Options -- Additional Settings -- Do not send a
>>	copy of a member's own post


This only controls the default of the "not metoo" setting for new
members.


>>  Also, in the Membership list, the entry "not metoo" has _not_
>>  been checked.    I can find no other place where this behavior
>>  can be changed.


Other things to check.

Is the poster subscribed to 'messages' and not 'digests' ('digest'
unchecked in the Membership list)?

Is delivery enabled for the poster ('nomail' unchecked in the
Membership list)?

Does the poster have 'nodupes' checked in the Membership list? If so,
AND the poster is included in a To: or Cc: header of the post - e.g.,
the poster Cc's herself - she won't receive a copy from the list.

Does the poster use gmail? Gmail will not save a received message which
duplicates one already in the 'conversation'. I.e., poster sends a
post, and gmail saves it in 'Sent Mail'. Then when gmail receives the
post from the list, it is a duplicate of the message in 'Sent Mail' so
it is not saved. There may be other services or user MUAs that behave
similarly.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jrc at clshost.com  Mon Nov 13 04:43:03 2006
From: jrc at clshost.com (J.R. Constance)
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:43:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Temporary local problem - please try later
Message-ID: <0522DE9B-1513-404B-B96F-D673D6AE66BB@clshost.com>

I am seeing the following error in my smtp-failure log

Nov 12 18:33:44 2006 (18367) All recipients refused:  
{'jrc at rodricon.com': (451, 'Temporary local problem - please try  
later')}, msgid: <mailman.1.1163260804.9656.constituent-society- 
leadership_ascls-lists.org at ascls-lists.org>
Nov 12 18:33:44 2006 (18367) delivery to jrc at rodricon.com failed with  
code 451: Temporary local problem - please try later

I have something like 180000 lines in the failure log either with  
this 451 error or with s. Any idea what could be causing this?

Thanks,

J.R. Constance




From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Nov 13 04:39:57 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:39:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <87d57szj28.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10611101121120.19505-100000@james.hwcn.org>
	<p06240505c17ae9ce1a76@[10.0.1.11]> <871woa2c1j.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<p06240501c17c2f657aaa@[10.0.1.11]> <87d57szj28.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
Message-ID: <p06240500c17d98f25bc0@[10.0.1.11]>

At 12:11 PM -0500 11/12/06, John A. Martin wrote:

>                                                                 I
>  suspect you would agree that otherwise action should not be
>  recommended to be taken based upon the data contained in header
>  fields.

I would agree that the RFC guidelines should be followed, and if they 
are met then certain actions could be taken in response.

Where I think we disagree is whether or not SPF is capable of 
actually meeting those requirements.  However, there may be other 
methods which might be capable of meeting those requirements, and 
they might also be reflected in a header which can be matched as a 
regular expression, so I agree that the general point is valid.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Nov 13 04:56:17 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:56:17 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Temporary local problem - please try later
In-Reply-To: <0522DE9B-1513-404B-B96F-D673D6AE66BB@clshost.com>
References: <0522DE9B-1513-404B-B96F-D673D6AE66BB@clshost.com>
Message-ID: <p06240501c17d9b08d8d6@[10.0.1.11]>

At 8:43 PM -0700 11/12/06, J.R. Constance wrote:

>  I have something like 180000 lines in the failure log either with
>  this 451 error or with s. Any idea what could be causing this?

I've been using Unix and the Internet for over twenty-two years, a 
professional Unix system administrator for over seventeen years, and 
specializing in managing Internet e-mail systems for over fourteen 
years.

Congratulations, this is a first -- I don't recall having ever seen 
this particular error message before in my life.  And at this stage 
in my career, I don't get too many of those.


This is almost certainly a problem in your local MTA, where Mailman 
is unable to hand off messages to the mail server for some reason.

What MTA are you using -- is it Exim?  How is that configured?  Have 
you checked the MTA logs, to see what it says about this issue?  Have 
you checked to make sure that your DNS is configured correctly?

Have you checked the relevant FAQ entries regarding MTA problems and 
non-delivery issues?

Have you checked your MTA configuration to make sure that it is 
turning off all anti-spam/anti-virus checks for all outbound 
messages, as suggested in the FAQ?  If you can't do that, can you at 
least confirm that your anti-virus scanning system is working 
properly?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 13 06:56:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:56:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Temporary local problem - please try later
In-Reply-To: <0522DE9B-1513-404B-B96F-D673D6AE66BB@clshost.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611122156150578268de7d1@msapiro>

J.R. Constance wrote:

>I am seeing the following error in my smtp-failure log
>
>Nov 12 18:33:44 2006 (18367) All recipients refused:  
>{'jrc at rodricon.com': (451, 'Temporary local problem - please try  
>later')}, msgid: <mailman.1.1163260804.9656.constituent-society- 
>leadership_ascls-lists.org at ascls-lists.org>
>Nov 12 18:33:44 2006 (18367) delivery to jrc at rodricon.com failed with  
>code 451: Temporary local problem - please try later
>
>I have something like 180000 lines in the failure log either with  
>this 451 error or with s. Any idea what could be causing this?


Brad has given several good suggestions in his reply. I just want to
add that this is a Mailman generated message (from the message-id). It
is almost certainly an owner notification of some kind sent to
constituent-society-leadership-owner at ascls-lists.org and then being
resent to the list owner.

Is the address jrc at rodricon.com deliverable? What do you see in the
MTA's log. What happens if you try to send to jrc at rodricon.com from
some MUA via the same MTA connection?

Also, the 451 is being returned by the MTA directly to Mailman's
SMTPDirect.py handler during the SMTP delivery, and the message is
queued for retry. Thus, this may be just one or a few messages, each
being retried every 15 minutes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ml at ancalagon.inka.de  Mon Nov 13 07:01:43 2006
From: ml at ancalagon.inka.de (Thomas Hochstein)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 07:01:43 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Temporary local problem - please try later
References: <0522DE9B-1513-404B-B96F-D673D6AE66BB@clshost.com>
	<p06240501c17d9b08d8d6@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <alm.0611130701.6956@windlord.akallabeth.de>

Brad Knowles schrieb:

> I've been using Unix and the Internet for over twenty-two years, a 
> professional Unix system administrator for over seventeen years, and 
> specializing in managing Internet e-mail systems for over fourteen 
> years.
>
> Congratulations, this is a first -- I don't recall having ever seen 
> this particular error message before in my life.

Your experience does not cover Exim too much, then. :) Exactly that
message is quite common with a misconfiguration.

> What MTA are you using -- is it Exim?  How is that configured?  Have 
> you checked the MTA logs, to see what it says about this issue?

Ack. That should do the trick.

-thh


From jrc at clshost.com  Mon Nov 13 07:53:15 2006
From: jrc at clshost.com (J.R. Constance)
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 23:53:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Temporary local problem - please try later
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c17d9b08d8d6@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <0522DE9B-1513-404B-B96F-D673D6AE66BB@clshost.com>
	<p06240501c17d9b08d8d6@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <2279719C-8F08-46E0-BD07-992ED96DDE26@clshost.com>

I am using Exim, and here is the corresponding error from the  
exim_rejecting log for this smtp-failure entry.

2006-11-12 18:33:44 H=localhost (frodo.clshost.com) [127.0.0.1]  
sender verify defer for <mailman-bounces at ascls-lists.org>: error in  
redirect data: missing or malformed local part (expected word or "<")  
in ":blackhole"
2006-11-12 18:33:44 H=localhost (frodo.clshost.com) [127.0.0.1]  
F=<mailman-bounces at ascls-lists.org> temporarily rejected RCPT  
<jrc at rodricon.com>: Could not complete sender verify

I have had a situation with this domain where some spammers seem to  
be using the domain as a return address and getting a lot of  
rejections for emails that we weren't sending, so I set the default  
address folr ascls-lists.org to :blackhole so that I wasn't getting  
all of the rejections. Could that be causing a problem?

The jrc at rodricon.com address is my main email address, and seems to  
work fine. I do receive email from the ascls-lists.org mailing lists  
on a regular basis to that address.

I will look through the FAQ entries, and will also recheck the DNS  
configuration.

Thanks,

J.R.

On Nov 12, 2006, at 8:56 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 8:43 PM -0700 11/12/06, J.R. Constance wrote:
>
>>  I have something like 180000 lines in the failure log either with
>>  this 451 error or with s. Any idea what could be causing this?
>
> I've been using Unix and the Internet for over twenty-two years, a  
> professional Unix system administrator for over seventeen years,  
> and specializing in managing Internet e-mail systems for over  
> fourteen years.
>
> Congratulations, this is a first -- I don't recall having ever seen  
> this particular error message before in my life.  And at this stage  
> in my career, I don't get too many of those.
>
>
> This is almost certainly a problem in your local MTA, where Mailman  
> is unable to hand off messages to the mail server for some reason.
>
> What MTA are you using -- is it Exim?  How is that configured?   
> Have you checked the MTA logs, to see what it says about this  
> issue?  Have you checked to make sure that your DNS is configured  
> correctly?
>
> Have you checked the relevant FAQ entries regarding MTA problems  
> and non-delivery issues?
>
> Have you checked your MTA configuration to make sure that it is  
> turning off all anti-spam/anti-virus checks for all outbound  
> messages, as suggested in the FAQ?  If you can't do that, can you  
> at least confirm that your anti-virus scanning system is working  
> properly?
>
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>
>
> Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail- 
> abuse.org
> mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
> e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct  
> that
> with the current address.



From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Nov 13 08:18:15 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:18:15 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <p06240509c17aedbc064b@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20061110085608.0668a750@crimson-dragon.com>
	<C179F5EC.FE1F%jwblist3@olympus.net>
	<6fbe3da00611100949o4eb1735ayef4616e5c6042e89@mail.gmail.com>
	<87bqnelqsr.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240509c17aedbc064b@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <87odrb4xxk.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > At 10:23 AM +0900 11/11/06, stephen at xemacs.org wrote:
 > 
 > >  The second is that for a bounded cost[1], you can implement signed mail.
 > 
 > For dozens of years, we've been telling people that once they have 
 > enough RAM and fast enough disk drives, the single biggest bottleneck 
 > in scaling up large mail systems is the filesystem, and overhead with 
 > regards to sychronous meta-data updates.
 > 
 > Signed mail causes the CPU of the mail server to have to do expensive 
 > crypto calculations that are many, many orders of magnitude beyond 
 > anything that had ever been done in the past, on a per-message basis.

If you insist that the server do the signature, yes.  Did you miss the
part where I said you have to educate users for this to work?

I'm not proposing this seriously, because I don't expect the average
user to be willing to learn anything as long as AOL and GMail promise
to do it all for them.  What I'm trying to do is outline what will be
necessary, just in case there's some educator who's more charismatic
than me. :-(

 > At that point, you might as well just shut down all Internet e-mail anyway.

For those who don't sign their messages, yes.  The rest of us will be
back in the friendly-user world because only our friends will be able
to send us mail. :-/

 > Actually, spammers have totally unlimited CPU power available to 
 > them, so they might be the only ones on the planet who are able to 
 > handle doing signed e-mail for all messages.

Because they are using owned machines, you mean.  Well, if those
machines can do crypto for the spammers, they can do crypto for their
nominal owners.  And if email is going to survive, by your
projections, they're going to have to.

 > It doesn't matter that the signed message is actually traceable back 
 > to a particular person, it just matters that it's signed.

Then it's just hashcash, and it can't scale.  We already knew that.



From petern at africaonline.co.zw  Mon Nov 13 11:29:20 2006
From: petern at africaonline.co.zw (Peter Nyamukusa)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:29:20 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List Error
Message-ID: <200611131229.20330.petern@africaonline.co.zw>

Hi Guys,

We recently installed mailmain running on FreeBSD with Vexim and I am getting 
the error below on one of the mailing lists, all the others are working 
perfectly


2006-11-13 12:01:52 1GjYdU-000IrF-DS ** |/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post 
users <users at test.co.zw>: retry timeout exceeded
2006-11-13 12:01:52 1GjYdU-000IrH-Ei == |/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post 
users <users at test.co.zw> R=system_aliases T=address_pipe defer (-28): Failed 
to find group "" from expanded string "${lookup mysql{select users.gid from 
users,domains where localpart = '${quote_mysql:$local_part}' and domain = 
'${quote_mysql:$domain}' and users.domain_id = domains.domain_id}}" for the 
address_pipe transport
2006-11-13 12:01:52 1GjYdU-000IrH-Ei ** |/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post 
users <users at test.co.zw>: retry timeout exceeded
2006-11-13 12:01:52 1GjYdU-000IrH-Ei |/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post 
users <users at test.co.zw>: error ignored

Regards,

Peter Nyamukusa



From gherzig at fmed.uba.ar  Mon Nov 13 14:09:16 2006
From: gherzig at fmed.uba.ar (Gerardo Herzig)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:09:16 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] deleting "pending for approval" from command
 line
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00611100737j526d229epd5107cc83a2c4156@mail.gmail.com>
References: <45548536.5020401@fmed.uba.ar>	
	<Pine.LNX.4.21.0611100816140.21253-100000@linuxbox.org>
	<6fbe3da00611100737j526d229epd5107cc83a2c4156@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45586E7C.6000002@fmed.uba.ar>

     > Can i delete those pending

>> > messages from command line? Can i delete or blank a simple file? 
>> (its ok
>> > if i delete ALL the pending messages)
>>
>> I have a similar issue with a mailing list with over 5K unmoderated
>> messages I need to sift through, and can't load the web interface for 
>> it.
>>
>>         Gadi.
>>
>
> I've added FAQ 4.74
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.074.htp>
> to answer this. If someone else can look it over for me and
> double-check that what I've put is accurate (and the best phrasing,
> etc.), I'd be appreciative.
>
Well, i think im using the Carl revised version of FAQ, and work 
perfectly. Thank you all!!

Gerardo



From CLopez at oas.org  Mon Nov 13 14:54:08 2006
From: CLopez at oas.org (Lopez, Carlos Andres)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:54:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] REMOVE
In-Reply-To: <45586E7C.6000002@fmed.uba.ar>
Message-ID: <9CA36A3B60F5E9479BAB9A8A44776202502638@STORK1.oas.org>




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 13 18:37:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:37:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List Error
In-Reply-To: <200611131229.20330.petern@africaonline.co.zw>
Message-ID: <PC176020061113093754070330583155@msapiro>

Peter Nyamukusa wrote:
>
>We recently installed mailmain running on FreeBSD with Vexim and I am getting 
>the error below on one of the mailing lists, all the others are working 
>perfectly
>
>
>2006-11-13 12:01:52 1GjYdU-000IrF-DS ** |/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post 
>users <users at test.co.zw>: retry timeout exceeded
>2006-11-13 12:01:52 1GjYdU-000IrH-Ei == |/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post 
>users <users at test.co.zw> R=system_aliases T=address_pipe defer (-28): Failed 
>to find group "" from expanded string "${lookup mysql{select users.gid from 
>users,domains where localpart = '${quote_mysql:$local_part}' and domain = 
>'${quote_mysql:$domain}' and users.domain_id = domains.domain_id}}" for the 
>address_pipe transport


It looks like Vexim is trying to obtain the group under which to run
the pipe from a mysql database, and the database doesn't have an entry
for the 'users' list (address local part).



-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 13 18:52:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:52:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Temporary local problem - please try later
In-Reply-To: <2279719C-8F08-46E0-BD07-992ED96DDE26@clshost.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061113095249000030582e91@msapiro>

J.R. Constance wrote:

>I am using Exim, and here is the corresponding error from the  
>exim_rejecting log for this smtp-failure entry.
>
>2006-11-12 18:33:44 H=localhost (frodo.clshost.com) [127.0.0.1]  
>sender verify defer for <mailman-bounces at ascls-lists.org>: error in  
>redirect data: missing or malformed local part (expected word or "<")  
>in ":blackhole"


Seems pretty straightforward to me. Exim is trying to verify the
envelope sender <mailman-bounces at ascls-lists.org> for this message to
<jrc at rodricon.com> according to something in its configuration and
there is an apparent syntax error involving ":blackhole"


>2006-11-12 18:33:44 H=localhost (frodo.clshost.com) [127.0.0.1]  
>F=<mailman-bounces at ascls-lists.org> temporarily rejected RCPT  
><jrc at rodricon.com>: Could not complete sender verify
>
>I have had a situation with this domain where some spammers seem to  
>be using the domain as a return address and getting a lot of  
>rejections for emails that we weren't sending, so I set the default  
>address folr ascls-lists.org to :blackhole so that I wasn't getting  
>all of the rejections. Could that be causing a problem?


I'm sure that's it. It appears there is some syntax error in what you
set in the Exim configuration.

What do you get from

  exim -bt jrc at rodricon.com -f mailman-bounces at ascls-lists.org

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mardin at comcast.net  Mon Nov 13 19:09:22 2006
From: mardin at comcast.net (mardin at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:09:22 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rename mailman hostname
Message-ID: <111320061809.22780.4558B4D20001399C000058FC220699973502070B9D0E03@comcast.net>

Mark ,

When I installed Mailman 2.1.5, the hostname was mailman_server1.admin.net. The Defaults.py was:
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mailman_server1.admin.net'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mailman_server1.admin.net'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'

Since I needed to rename hostname to mailman_server2.admin.net. I added the following lines to mm_cfg.py and run fix_url and arch. The mailman server was working.
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mailman_server2.admin.net'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mailman_server2.admin.net'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'

But when I looked at "FAQ 4.29. Where can I change a list or the default URL used for the web interface?" I found the following message:
> and some more add_virtualhost(URL_FQDN, EMAIL_FQDN) if you are using virtual hosts.

My question is:
Should I add one extra line shch as "add_virtualhost(mailman_server2.admin.net, mailman_server2.admin.net') in the mmcfg_cfg.py:
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mailman_server2.admin.net'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mailman_server2.admin.net'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
add_virtualhost(mailman_server2.admin.net, mailman_server2.admin.net')                                          <-new
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'

Our Apache httpd.conf has VirtualHost directory. Does it mean we are using the virtual host of mailman_server2.admin.net?
 <VirtualHost *:80>
ServerName mailman_server2.admin.net

We only use mailman_server2.admin.net now. Our clients send email by "listname at mailman_server2.admin.net" and access Mailman by "https://mailman_server2.admin.net". Would you please tell me how to figure out "if you are using virtual hosts."? 

Thanks,
Mardin



 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
> mardin at comcast.net wrote:
> >
> >My question is how to use the following two lines:
> >
> >VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
> >add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> >
> >For our case, is it necessary to add the above two lines? When I did a quick 
> test, the mailman server was working without adding these two lines.
> 
> It depends on what you're doing and what's in Defaults.py. If the
> settings in Defaults.py for DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
> are correct, then you don't need the two lines in mm_cfg.py (and you
> also don't need to set DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST in
> mm_cfg.py).
> 
> If the settings in Defaults.py for DEFAULT_URL_HOST and/or
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST need changing in mm_cfg.py, then you also need the
> two above lines. This affects mostly creation of new lists, but also
> fix_url and the domain of the site email address on the listinfo pages
> and some other places.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 



From ml at ancalagon.inka.de  Mon Nov 13 19:15:20 2006
From: ml at ancalagon.inka.de (Thomas Hochstein)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:15:20 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Temporary local problem - please try later
References: <0522DE9B-1513-404B-B96F-D673D6AE66BB@clshost.com>
	<p06240501c17d9b08d8d6@[10.0.1.11]>
	<2279719C-8F08-46E0-BD07-992ED96DDE26@clshost.com>
Message-ID: <alm.0611131915.6967@windlord.akallabeth.de>

"J.R. Constance" schrieb:

> 2006-11-12 18:33:44 H=localhost (frodo.clshost.com) [127.0.0.1]  
> sender verify defer for <mailman-bounces at ascls-lists.org>: error in  
> redirect data: missing or malformed local part (expected word or "<")  
> in ":blackhole"

Since it is ":blackhole:" and not ":blackhole" - mind the second colon
-, you've got a typo in your config.

> I have had a situation with this domain where some spammers seem to  
> be using the domain as a return address and getting a lot of  
> rejections for emails that we weren't sending, so I set the default  
> address folr ascls-lists.org to :blackhole so that I wasn't getting  
> all of the rejections. Could that be causing a problem?

Yes. Just fix the typo.

-thh


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Nov 13 19:14:04 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:14:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Temporary local problem - please try later
In-Reply-To: <2279719C-8F08-46E0-BD07-992ED96DDE26@clshost.com>
References: <0522DE9B-1513-404B-B96F-D673D6AE66BB@clshost.com>
	<p06240501c17d9b08d8d6@[10.0.1.11]>
	<2279719C-8F08-46E0-BD07-992ED96DDE26@clshost.com>
Message-ID: <p06240500c17e660646b5@[10.0.1.11]>

At 11:53 PM -0700 11/12/06, J.R. Constance wrote:

>  I have had a situation with this domain where some spammers seem to
>  be using the domain as a return address and getting a lot of
>  rejections for emails that we weren't sending, so I set the default
>  address folr ascls-lists.org to :blackhole so that I wasn't getting
>  all of the rejections. Could that be causing a problem?

Dunno.  Could be, but then that's an Exim-specific question, and you 
are much more likely to be able to get a useful answer if you were to 
ask that on a mailing list devoted to supporting Exim.  Of course 
before posting that question to their list, you should first check 
their FAQs, documentation, list archives, etc....

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Nov 13 19:20:20 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:20:20 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation
In-Reply-To: <87odrb4xxk.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20061110085608.0668a750@crimson-dragon.com>
	<C179F5EC.FE1F%jwblist3@olympus.net>
	<6fbe3da00611100949o4eb1735ayef4616e5c6042e89@mail.gmail.com>
	<87bqnelqsr.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240509c17aedbc064b@[10.0.1.11]>
	<87odrb4xxk.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240501c17e66766121@[10.0.1.11]>

At 4:18 PM +0900 11/13/06, stephen at xemacs.org wrote:

>  > Signed mail causes the CPU of the mail server to have to do expensive
>  > crypto calculations that are many, many orders of magnitude beyond
>  > anything that had ever been done in the past, on a per-message basis.
>
>  If you insist that the server do the signature, yes.  Did you miss the
>  part where I said you have to educate users for this to work?

No amount of user education is going to help.  First off, they need 
to be running suitable software.  Very little client-side software 
supports DKIM or other similar sorts of technologies, and this kind 
of thing is pretty useless if it's not widely implemented.

DKIM was specifically designed so that it could slip in as a "shim" 
on the server side, to start ramping up this process quickly, because 
they knew it would take a long time to be supported on the majority 
of clients.


But the problem is that it *has* to be supported on the server 
receiver in order to be useful at all -- that's the only place where 
you can do those calculations while the sender is being held open, so 
that you can make a decision as to whether or not to accept that 
message.

Otherwise, you might as well just blindly accept everything in the 
first place, and let the client deal with all problems.

>  > At that point, you might as well just shut down all Internet e-mail anyway.
>
>  For those who don't sign their messages, yes.  The rest of us will be
>  back in the friendly-user world because only our friends will be able
>  to send us mail. :-/

Not really, no.  Because only the spammers will have enough CPU power 
necessary to do all those calculations.  No recipient system will be 
capable of doing massive crypto calculations for each and every 
message that is received, so they will all get buried under the load.

>  > Actually, spammers have totally unlimited CPU power available to
>  > them, so they might be the only ones on the planet who are able to
>  > handle doing signed e-mail for all messages.
>
>  Because they are using owned machines, you mean.  Well, if those
>  machines can do crypto for the spammers, they can do crypto for their
>  nominal owners.  And if email is going to survive, by your
>  projections, they're going to have to.

It doesn't matter where or how the spammers get their CPU cycles, 
what matters is that they have them, and they continue to get more of 
them at a faster rate than the rest of us can stand up new servers to 
deal with the massive waves of spam.

We're losing this war, and we're losing it faster and faster every day.

>  > It doesn't matter that the signed message is actually traceable back
>  > to a particular person, it just matters that it's signed.
>
>  Then it's just hashcash, and it can't scale.  We already knew that.

Yup.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 13 19:50:17 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:50:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rename mailman hostname
In-Reply-To: <111320061809.22780.4558B4D20001399C000058FC220699973502070B9D0E03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020061113105017071851c491ff@msapiro>

mardin at comcast.net wrote:
>
>Since I needed to rename hostname to mailman_server2.admin.net. I added the following lines to mm_cfg.py and run fix_url and arch. The mailman server was working.
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mailman_server2.admin.net'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mailman_server2.admin.net'
>VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'


The above is correct and all you need.


>But when I looked at "FAQ 4.29. Where can I change a list or the default URL used for the web interface?" I found the following message:
>> and some more add_virtualhost(URL_FQDN, EMAIL_FQDN) if you are using virtual hosts.


This only applies if this Mailman is to support lists in more than one
domain.


>My question is:
>Should I add one extra line shch as "add_virtualhost(mailman_server2.admin.net, mailman_server2.admin.net') in the mmcfg_cfg.py:
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mailman_server2.admin.net'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mailman_server2.admin.net'
>VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>add_virtualhost(mailman_server2.admin.net, mailman_server2.admin.net')                                          <-new


This would be wrong. If you add additional lines such as the above, the
names have to be quoted as in

add_virtualhost('mailman_server2.admin.net',
'mailman_server2.admin.net')

but this wouldn't be any different from the

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

you already have with the values of DEFAULT_URL_HOST and
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST that you have assigned.


>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
>
>Our Apache httpd.conf has VirtualHost directory. Does it mean we are using the virtual host of mailman_server2.admin.net?
> <VirtualHost *:80>
>ServerName mailman_server2.admin.net


Yes, but it makes no difference to Mailman. Mailman's virtual hosts are
for supporting lists in more than one domain with a single Mailman
instance, so unless you have Mailman lists in a second domain, you
aren't using Mailman virtual hosts.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mardin at comcast.net  Mon Nov 13 20:25:57 2006
From: mardin at comcast.net (mardin at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:25:57 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rename mailman hostname
Message-ID: <111320061925.26465.4558C6C50000129D00006761220699849902070B9D0E03@comcast.net>

Thanks! You are always helpful!

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
> mardin at comcast.net wrote:
> >
> >Since I needed to rename hostname to mailman_server2.admin.net. I added the 
> following lines to mm_cfg.py and run fix_url and arch. The mailman server was 
> working.
> >DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mailman_server2.admin.net'
> >DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mailman_server2.admin.net'
> >VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
> >add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> >DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
> 
> 
> The above is correct and all you need.
> 
> 
> >But when I looked at "FAQ 4.29. Where can I change a list or the default URL 
> used for the web interface?" I found the following message:
> >> and some more add_virtualhost(URL_FQDN, EMAIL_FQDN) if you are using virtual 
> hosts.
> 
> 
> This only applies if this Mailman is to support lists in more than one
> domain.
> 
> 
> >My question is:
> >Should I add one extra line shch as "add_virtualhost(mailman_server2.admin.net, 
> mailman_server2.admin.net') in the mmcfg_cfg.py:
> >DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mailman_server2.admin.net'
> >DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mailman_server2.admin.net'
> >VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
> >add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> >add_virtualhost(mailman_server2.admin.net, mailman_server2.admin.net')                                          
> <-new
> 
> 
> This would be wrong. If you add additional lines such as the above, the
> names have to be quoted as in
> 
> add_virtualhost('mailman_server2.admin.net',
> 'mailman_server2.admin.net')
> 
> but this wouldn't be any different from the
> 
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> 
> you already have with the values of DEFAULT_URL_HOST and
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST that you have assigned.
> 
> 
> >DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
> >
> >Our Apache httpd.conf has VirtualHost directory. Does it mean we are using the 
> virtual host of mailman_server2.admin.net?
> > <VirtualHost *:80>
> >ServerName mailman_server2.admin.net
> 
> 
> Yes, but it makes no difference to Mailman. Mailman's virtual hosts are
> for supporting lists in more than one domain with a single Mailman
> instance, so unless you have Mailman lists in a second domain, you
> aren't using Mailman virtual hosts.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 



From auc2infinity at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 13 23:04:03 2006
From: auc2infinity at yahoo.com (mr po iv)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:04:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hidden email address
Message-ID: <20061113220403.19018.qmail@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

  hi there,
  i had a question regrading settings.  i want to make sure that the email/contact info for anyone in my list does not get published for everyone else to see when they respond to a message.  where would i make sure that this is checked and their email address is hidden? 
   
  i read the user guide, but i am still a bit confused.  I see the different settings below.
   
    
   in membership area there is a box called hide   
   in membership exposure there is "show member addr so that they are not directly recognizable as email addrs"   
   hide the sender of a message, replacing it with the list address (removes from, sender and reply to fields"
  So which one's need to be turned on, or is there one particular one I should turn on so that it is hidden.  Thanks.
   


 
---------------------------------
Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

From jnyland at gmail.com  Mon Nov 13 23:29:34 2006
From: jnyland at gmail.com (Jared Nyland)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:29:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman issue downloading full raw archive
Message-ID: <a5d091110611131429j26bd567flafdc4fd71f02a852@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

I have recently run into an issue with downloading the full raw archive on
one list.  The archive has reached 1086 MB in size and I now get this
error.  Has anyone seen this before or know how to resolve it.



Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
    main()
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/private.py", line 162, in main
    sys.stdout.write(f.read())
MemoryError: out of memory


Thanks in advance
Jared


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 14 00:08:02 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:08:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hidden email address
In-Reply-To: <20061113220403.19018.qmail@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061113150802092130e531fb@msapiro>

mr po iv wrote:

>  i had a question regrading settings.  i want to make sure that the email/contact info for anyone in my list does not get published for everyone else to see when they respond to a message.  where would i make sure that this is checked and their email address is hidden? 
>   
>  i read the user guide, but i am still a bit confused.  I see the different settings below.
>   
>    
>   in membership area there is a box called hide


This is also on the user's options page as "Conceal yourself from
subscriber list?" It does not show this user on the roster or the
email 'who' command results. You can effectively do the same thing by
setting private_roster to List admin only on the Privacy
options->Subscription rules page. Note also that the default setting
of this for new members is new_member_options->Conceal the member's
address on the General Options page.


>   in membership exposure there is "show member addr so that they are not directly recognizable as email addrs" 


This affects how member addresses are shown on the roster and in the
archives - 'user at example.com' vs. user at example.com'.

  
>   hide the sender of a message, replacing it with the list address (removes from, sender and reply to fields"


This is the one you want to make the sender's address not visible in
posts.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 14 03:53:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:53:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman issue downloading full raw archive
In-Reply-To: <a5d091110611131429j26bd567flafdc4fd71f02a852@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611131853030093d1b6daa0@msapiro>

Jared Nyland wrote:
>
>I have recently run into an issue with downloading the full raw archive on
>one list.  The archive has reached 1086 MB in size and I now get this
>error.  Has anyone seen this before or know how to resolve it.
>
>
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
>    main()
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/private.py", line 162, in main
>    sys.stdout.write(f.read())
>MemoryError: out of memory


What is happening is private.py is copying the list.mbox file to
stdout, but it is doing this by reading the entire file into memory
and then writing it back out to stdout. Thus, eventually you will
reach som limit on how big the CGI can grow and you get the memory
error.

You could make the archive public which allows the web server to access
the file directly via the 'pipermail' URL. If you don't want to make
the archive public, you could create an alias within the web server to
access the file and use .htaccess control to limit access.

Perhaps better than any of these is to patch Mailman/Cgi/Private.py.
The last few lines of this file are

    else:
        print 'Content-type: %s\n' % ctype
        sys.stdout.write(f.read())
        f.close()

If you change these to

    else:
        print 'Content-type: %s\n' % ctype
        line = f.readline()
        while line:
            sys.stdout.write(line)
            line = f.readline()
        f.close()

I think it will avoid the problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From arichy at gmx.de  Tue Nov 14 05:56:19 2006
From: arichy at gmx.de (ar)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 05:56:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Do not receive monthly password reminder with Mm
	2.1.9
Message-ID: <20061114055619.31b58b42.arichy@gmx.de>

Hi,

I administrate a mailing list with Mailman 2.1.9.

send_reminders (general) is set to Yes

I am also a normal user in "my" list and my personal option "send monthly password reminder" is also set to Yes (I did not change that).

But I do not receive such a reminder mail. Why?

Maybe because I log in at minimum once in a month so mailman knows that I know my password?

Thanks,
Arichy


From tedtarg at jobstreet.com  Tue Nov 14 08:44:01 2006
From: tedtarg at jobstreet.com (Ted Targosz)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:44:01 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migration from mailman 2.1.5 and fc2 to 2.1.9 and
	Centos
Message-ID: <1163490241.2189.91.camel@octopus.jobstreet.com>

Seems like i'm not the only one wanting to migrate from 2.1.5... but I
made the mistake of deploying fedora core 2 with mailman 2.1.5 (RPM) as
a production system...  now i can see i need to migrate to Centos 4 for
longer term stability. 

I recall reading somewhere that someone did this and they wound up
breaking mailman , but they didn't care because mailman wasn't being
used much..   however, in my case, mailman is the "sole" use of this
server.

Has anyone had any experiences moving from FC2 to Centos 4.x and running
mailman that they'd like to share?

anything i need to watch out for?
 
-- 

Ted Targosz
Business Development/Operations Manager
Jobstreet.com
Phone: 604-6445912
Hand Phone: 6012-2063600
Fax: 604-6428653
email: tedtarg at jobstreet.com

"Today is especially delicious!" - Nacho Libre



From tony.molloy at ul.ie  Tue Nov 14 10:23:23 2006
From: tony.molloy at ul.ie (Tony Molloy)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:23:23 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Clean up Archives
Message-ID: <200611140923.23336.tony.molloy@ul.ie>


Hi All,

I have a problem with the archives for one of my lists. This is a fun list 
so people tend to send lots of attachments to it.

I know I can delete messages from the list manually by editing the mbox 
files but I was wondering if it was possibe to "expire the archives" in 
some way.

Regards,

Tony

-- 


Tony Molloy.

System Manager.
Dept. of Comp. Sci.
University of Limerick


From shawj+ at pitt.edu  Tue Nov 14 14:28:10 2006
From: shawj+ at pitt.edu (Jan Shaw)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:28:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalized Email
Message-ID: <98790940-DB42-4CC4-84CD-E9D1AC17E2BA@pitt.edu>

How do I show the individual email addresses of recipient in their  
To: window ?  They are all members of a list but the sender wants it  
to look like they are receiving an individual email from him.  I am  
researching FAQ 3.15. How do I enable personalization.  Is this the  
right place for the answer? I am unable to locate the "enable  
personalization to true"  Thanks for your help.
jan


From auc2infinity at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 14 15:01:08 2006
From: auc2infinity at yahoo.com (auc2infinity at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:01:08 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam
Message-ID: <689981819-1163512869-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-796384872-@bwe029-cell00.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Hi Everyone,  I am subscribing memebers to my list and they pointed out to me that the welcome, invite, and or confirm email message get marked and moved into their spam folder.  Is there any settings in mailman so the the email clients don't see it as spam?

If the members are not aware or check their spam folder they would never know that mailman sent an invite.

Thanks
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry  



From stefan at blackflag.homedns.org  Tue Nov 14 15:15:13 2006
From: stefan at blackflag.homedns.org (stefanb)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:15:13 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam
In-Reply-To: <689981819-1163512869-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-796384872-@bwe029-cell00.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <689981819-1163512869-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-796384872-@bwe029-cell00.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <200611141515.15605.stefan@blackflag.homedns.org>

maybe your server is blacklisted

Am Dienstag, 14. November 2006 15:01 schrieb auc2infinity at yahoo.com:
> Hi Everyone,  I am subscribing memebers to my list and they pointed out to
> me that the welcome, invite, and or confirm email message get marked and
> moved into their spam folder.  Is there any settings in mailman so the the
> email clients don't see it as spam?
>
> If the members are not aware or check their spam folder they would never
> know that mailman sent an invite.
>
> Thanks
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/stefan%40blackflag.hom
>edns.org
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Tue Nov 14 16:36:34 2006
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:36:34 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam
In-Reply-To: <689981819-1163512869-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-796384872-@bwe029-cell00.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <689981819-1163512869-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-796384872-@bwe029-cell00.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0611140930530.11750@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 auc2infinity at yahoo.com wrote:

> Hi Everyone, I am subscribing memebers to my list and they pointed out
> to me that the welcome, invite, and or confirm email message get marked
> and moved into their spam folder.  Is there any settings in mailman so
> the the email clients don't see it as spam?

No nor can there be. Mail clients and receiving mail servers determine
what they think is spam by a variety of different means that may or may
not be under the control of the recipient.  The more restrictive a user's
anti-spam settings are, the more likely there are to be false positives.
If there was some way to include a magic flag in a message that said "this
is not spam", don't you think all the spammers would include that in their
spam?


-- Larry Stone
   lstone19 at stonejongleux.com


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Nov 14 16:52:43 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:52:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Do not receive monthly password reminder with
 Mm 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <20061114055619.31b58b42.arichy@gmx.de>
References: <20061114055619.31b58b42.arichy@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061114074712.0690cf60@crimson-dragon.com>

ar wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I administrate a mailing list with Mailman 2.1.9.
>
>send_reminders (general) is set to Yes
>
>I am also a normal user in "my" list and my personal option "send 
>monthly password reminder" is also set to Yes (I did not change that).
>
>But I do not receive such a reminder mail. Why?
>
>Maybe because I log in at minimum once in a month so mailman knows 
>that I know my password?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

These functions are handled by a series of scripts invoked at certain 
times by cron.

Has the crontab for the mailman user been setup?

If not, cron has no way to trigger these actions.

Mailman knows nothing about whether you have accessed it or not. It 
does not make a decision on when to send the password reminder on 
anything other than whether you have enabled password reminders.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Nov 14 16:54:52 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:54:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migration from mailman 2.1.5 and fc2 to 2.1.9
 and Centos
In-Reply-To: <1163490241.2189.91.camel@octopus.jobstreet.com>
References: <1163490241.2189.91.camel@octopus.jobstreet.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061114075318.0690d0a8@crimson-dragon.com>

Ted Targosz sent the message below at 23:44 11/13/2006:
>Seems like i'm not the only one wanting to migrate from 2.1.5... but I
>made the mistake of deploying fedora core 2 with mailman 2.1.5 (RPM) as
>a production system...  now i can see i need to migrate to Centos 4 for
>longer term stability.
>
>I recall reading somewhere that someone did this and they wound up
>breaking mailman , but they didn't care because mailman wasn't being
>used much..   however, in my case, mailman is the "sole" use of this
>server.
>
>Has anyone had any experiences moving from FC2 to Centos 4.x and running
>mailman that they'd like to share?
>
>anything i need to watch out for?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

My personal opinion...

Install mailman from source and forget any packages. The packages are 
generally not up to the latest release and installing from source is 
really quite easy.



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From ben at graphicbliss.com  Tue Nov 14 15:52:35 2006
From: ben at graphicbliss.com (Ben Swihart)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:52:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do you turn off e-mail command results?
Message-ID: <4559D833.3070000@graphicbliss.com>

Hello,

I was unable to search the archive this morning.

When users subscribe, I like sending them a "welcome" e-mail with introductions, 
instructions, etc.  However, if you send an e-mail to list-subscribe at domain.com,
we are getting this back:

"The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your
original message.

- Results:
    Subscription request succeeded.

- Done."

Is there a way to disable command result notifications?

Thanks,

Ben



From jnyland at gmail.com  Tue Nov 14 17:35:26 2006
From: jnyland at gmail.com (Jared Nyland)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:35:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman issue downloading full raw archive
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611131853030093d1b6daa0@msapiro>
References: <a5d091110611131429j26bd567flafdc4fd71f02a852@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200611131853030093d1b6daa0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <a5d091110611140835k6b3b98c6qf909326bab66e737@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

Great Thanks for the help on this issue.  I have added that code to my
private.py and now I am getting this error.


Traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 88, in run_main
    sys.__stdout__.write(tempstdout.getvalue())
MemoryError



Thanks
Jared





On 11/13/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Jared Nyland wrote:
> >
> >I have recently run into an issue with downloading the full raw archive
> on
> >one list.  The archive has reached 1086 MB in size and I now get this
> >error.  Has anyone seen this before or know how to resolve it.
> >
> >
> >
> >Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
> >    main()
> >   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/private.py", line 162, in main
> >    sys.stdout.write(f.read())
> >MemoryError: out of memory
>
>
> What is happening is private.py is copying the list.mbox file to
> stdout, but it is doing this by reading the entire file into memory
> and then writing it back out to stdout. Thus, eventually you will
> reach som limit on how big the CGI can grow and you get the memory
> error.
>
> You could make the archive public which allows the web server to access
> the file directly via the 'pipermail' URL. If you don't want to make
> the archive public, you could create an alias within the web server to
> access the file and use .htaccess control to limit access.
>
> Perhaps better than any of these is to patch Mailman/Cgi/Private.py.
> The last few lines of this file are
>
>     else:
>         print 'Content-type: %s\n' % ctype
>         sys.stdout.write(f.read())
>         f.close()
>
> If you change these to
>
>     else:
>         print 'Content-type: %s\n' % ctype
>         line = f.readline()
>         while line:
>             sys.stdout.write(line)
>             line = f.readline()
>         f.close()
>
> I think it will avoid the problem.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From dbrva at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 14 18:39:50 2006
From: dbrva at yahoo.com (David Boothe)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:39:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List moderators
Message-ID: <20061114173951.46998.qmail@web55109.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

I have a list with about 8,000 subscribers.  It is set up as an announcement only type list where only a handful of people can post to the list.  Everyone else has the mod option turnd on.  Is theer a way to list all of the members with the mod turned off (the people who can post to the list)?  I have full access to the derver in question.
   
  Thanks,
  DB

 	
---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

From debralee at casstel.net  Tue Nov 14 21:03:13 2006
From: debralee at casstel.net (Debbie)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:03:13 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribers bouncing
Message-ID: <009601c70827$eabbee40$6401a8c0@Monkeemachine2>

I checked the archives and didn't find what I was looking for, so please 
forgive me if this has been answered already.
I keep having about 90% of my 3000 subscribers bouncing on a regular basis. 
I've checked and most are good addresses. Even the address that I use keeps 
bouncing, and sending me the bounce message, even though I get all the 
messages I send.
 Have I done something wrong? Does it have something to do with it being an 
annoucement list?
It's getting to be an awful lot of work to manually contact the bounced 
subscribers to make sure they are still online and then to take the bounce 
off of their account. Only to have to go through it a few weeks later and do 
it again.
Can anyone help me?
Thanks in advance,
Debbie 



From ashley at pcraft.com  Tue Nov 14 21:30:09 2006
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:30:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribers bouncing
In-Reply-To: <009601c70827$eabbee40$6401a8c0@Monkeemachine2>
References: <009601c70827$eabbee40$6401a8c0@Monkeemachine2>
Message-ID: <455A2751.4090406@pcraft.com>

Debbie wrote:
> I keep having about 90% of my 3000 subscribers bouncing on a regular basis. 
> I've checked and most are good addresses. Even the address that I use keeps 
> bouncing, and sending me the bounce message, even though I get all the 
> messages I send.
    I'd start by finding out why they're bouncing.  If you're finding 
out that their addresses are valid, and yet your messages are bouncing, 
then you need to start by figuring out the reason for the bounce.  And 
that can be a number of things...

-- 
W | It's not a bug - it's an undocumented feature.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / Websmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Imaging                       .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.



From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Tue Nov 14 21:29:29 2006
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:29:29 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribers bouncing
In-Reply-To: <009601c70827$eabbee40$6401a8c0@Monkeemachine2>
References: <009601c70827$eabbee40$6401a8c0@Monkeemachine2>
Message-ID: <20061114202929.GG16888@charite.de>

* Debbie <debralee at casstel.net>:

> I keep having about 90% of my 3000 subscribers bouncing on a regular basis. 
> I've checked and most are good addresses. Even the address that I use keeps 
> bouncing, and sending me the bounce message, even though I get all the 
> messages I send.

Why are they bouncing? What exactly is there in the bounce message?

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                    send no mail to plonk at charite.de


From doug at sbscomp.net  Tue Nov 14 22:26:23 2006
From: doug at sbscomp.net (Douglas Phillips)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:26:23 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Moderators
In-Reply-To: <mailman.381.1163536216.32030.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.381.1163536216.32030.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EC5B2A8-DE19-4710-B6A1-4233DACE4583@sbscomp.net>

> I have a list with about 8,000 subscribers.  It is set up as an  
> announcement only type list where only a handful of people can post  
> to the list.  Everyone else has the mod option turnd on.  Is theer  
> a way to list all of the members with the mod turned off (the  
> people who can post to the list)?  I have full access to the derver  
> in question.

The following script, run as root from the Mailman base directory,  
should give you what you need (verified against a 2.1.5  
installation).  Remember to change the name of the list to check :)

from Mailman import mm_cfg
from Mailman import MailList

list_to_check = 'CHANGE THIS'

mlist = MailList.MailList(list_to_check, lock=0)
print "Unmoderated Users:"
for user in mlist.getMembers():
   if not mlist.getMemberOption(user,mm_cfg.Moderate):
     print user


--
Douglas G. Phillips
Simple Business Solutions


From pir at pir.net  Wed Nov 15 02:46:14 2006
From: pir at pir.net (Peter Radcliffe)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 01:46:14 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] scripts/owners not setting list domain
Message-ID: <20061115014614.GB16423@pir.net>

I recently upgraded from mailman 2.0.x to 2.1.x finally (yeah, I've
been kinda busy moving countries again) and was bitten by what seems to
me to be a change in behaviour.

Mail sent to <listname>-owner was appearing with an SMTP envelope
sender of <listname>-bounces@<DEFAULT_URL_HOST> which isn't a valid
domain for mailman mail since it's different from DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
so the mail was bouncing.

I confirmed this by temp changing DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST to something
else, ran fix_url and restarted the qrunners and it followed the
config. All other mail was currectly using
<listname>-bounces@<DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST>.

I checked I had gotten rid of all the old variables, had run
add_virtualhost() properly in mm_cfg.py, ran fix_url, restarted the
qrunners, etc, everything I could find about it until I ran
across;
  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-April/050706.html

It seems, as that person says, that scripts/owner calls
Utils.get_site_email() with no hostname which goes through
get_domain() to get where it's looking for... which pulls the hostname
out of mm_cfg.DEFAULT_URL_HOST.

Now, to my mind, using a URL host for email is never the right answer
unless no DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST has been configured.

My mm_cfg.py section is thus;
------------------------------------------------------------------
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'list.pir.net'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.pir.net'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't see a way to configure that to get what I think is the right
answer from 
  hostname = mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOSTS.get(get_domain(), get_domain())
but perhaps I'm missing something.

My answer was the following patch to scripts/owner. Since there is a
known list name at that point why not get the domain to use from it's
config?

Am I missing something?

Ta,
P.

------------------------------------------------------------------
*** owner.orig	Wed Nov 15 01:21:13 2006
--- owner	Wed Nov 15 01:20:24 2006
***************
*** 30,35 ****
--- 30,36 ----
  import paths
  from Mailman import mm_cfg
  from Mailman import Utils
+ from Mailman.MailList import MailList
  from Mailman.i18n import _
  from Mailman.Queue.sbcache import get_switchboard
  from Mailman.Logging.Utils import LogStdErr
***************
*** 49,54 ****
--- 50,56 ----
          print >> sys.stderr, _(
              'mailowner script, list not found: %(listname)s')
          sys.exit(1)
+     mlist = MailList(listname, lock=0)
      # Queue the message for the owners.  We will send them through the
      # incoming queue because we need some processing done on the message.  The
      # processing is minimal though, so craft our own pipeline, expressly for
***************
*** 57,63 ****
      inq.enqueue(sys.stdin.read(),
                  listname=listname,
                  _plaintext=1,
!                 envsender=Utils.get_site_email(extra='bounces'),
                  pipeline=mm_cfg.OWNER_PIPELINE,
                  toowner=1)
  
--- 59,66 ----
      inq.enqueue(sys.stdin.read(),
                  listname=listname,
                  _plaintext=1,
!                 envsender=Utils.get_site_email(hostname=mlist.host_name,
!                                                extra='bounces'),
                  pipeline=mm_cfg.OWNER_PIPELINE,
                  toowner=1)
  
------------------------------------------------------------------


-- 
pir



From richard.bates at gmail.com  Wed Nov 15 05:25:18 2006
From: richard.bates at gmail.com (Richard Bates)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 23:25:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with delivery
Message-ID: <9C19F879-596A-44AD-9801-2399D6CF9A85@gmail.com>

I am running FreeBSD 6.1 with Postfix

I setup a list "mylist"
I subsubscribed to it from my local email address, and my gmail address
then I sent a message from the local email address and both email  
addresses received it

all is good..

I then tried to send from the gmail account
only the local email address received the post.

I don't know what you need so I am showing you my
	postfix main.cf
	/var/log/maillog & /var/log/messages combined
	the actual email message with headers
	clip from the alias file
	procmailrc file
	procmailrc output

I think it has something to do with postfix but I don't know what.


===================================
== main.cf
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
command_directory = /usr/local/sbin
daemon_directory = /usr/local/libexec/postfix
mail_owner = postfix
myhostname = mail2.myhost.com
mydomain = mail2.myhost.com
myorigin = mail2.myhost.com

# RECEIVING MAIL
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8
# DELIVERY TO MAILBOX
home_mailbox = Mail/Mailbox
mail_spool_directory = /var/mail
# mailbox_command = /usr/local/bin/procmail -f- /usr/local/etc/ 
procmailrc -a "$EXTENSION"

sendmail_path = /usr/local/sbin/sendmail
newaliases_path = /usr/local/bin/newaliases
mailq_path = /usr/local/bin/mailq
setgid_group = maildrop
html_directory = no
manpage_directory = /usr/local/man
sample_directory = /usr/local/etc/postfix
readme_directory = no

alias_maps = hash:/usr/local/etc/postfix/aliases, hash:/usr/local/ 
mailman/data/aliases


##### MAILMAN ITEMS
recipient_delimiter = +
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550


####### ADDITIONAL SETTINGS SASL/TLS

disable_vrfy_command = yes
mailbox_size_limit = 512000000
message_size_limit = 10485770
local_destination_concurrency_limit =  100
masquerade_domains = $mydomain
masquerade_exceptions = root


smtpd_helo_required = yes
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8
smtpd_sender_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, reject_rhsbl_sender  
sbl.spamhaus.org
smtpd_client_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, reject_rbl_client  
sbl.spamhaus.org
smtpd_recipient_limit = 10000


# SASL SUPPORT FOR CLIENTS
broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
smtpd_sasl_security_options = noanonymous
smtpd_sasl_local_domain = $myhostname
smtpd_recipient_restrictions =
         permit_sasl_authenticated,
         permit_mynetworks,
         reject_rhsbl_recipient sbl.spamhaus.org,
         reject_unauth_destination


# TLS SUPPORT
smtpd_tls_CAfile = /usr/local/etc/postfix/ssl/smtpd.pem
smtpd_tls_cert_file = /usr/local/etc/postfix/ssl/smtpd.pem
smtpd_tls_key_file = /usr/local/etc/postfix/ssl/smtpd.pem
smtpd_tls_loglevel = 1
smtpd_tls_received_header = yes
smtpd_tls_session_cache_timeout = 3600s
smtpd_use_tls = yes
smtp_tls_note_starttls_offer = yes
tls_random_source = dev:/dev/urandom



=====================================
== /var/logs
Nov 14 23:09:45 mail2 postfix/smtpd[44378]: connect from  
localhost.myhost.com[127.0.0.1]
Nov 14 23:09:45 mail2 postfix/smtpd[44378]: C7DCA84423:  
client=localhost.myhost.com[127.0.0.1]
Nov 14 23:09:45 mail2 postfix/cleanup[44382]: C7DCA84423: message- 
id=<mailman.0.1163563784.44377.mylist at mail2.myhost.com>
Nov 14 23:09:45 mail2 postfix/qmgr[42428]: C7DCA84423: from=<mylist- 
bounces at mail2.myhost.com>, size=784, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Nov 14 23:09:45 mail2 postfix/smtpd[44378]: disconnect from  
localhost.myhost.com[127.0.0.1]
Nov 14 23:09:45 mail2 postfix/smtp[44383]: Host offered STARTTLS:  
[mail.myhost.com]
Nov 14 23:09:46 mail2 postfix/smtp[44383]: C7DCA84423:  
to=<bates at myhost.com>, relay=mail.myhost.com[172.18.1.8]:25,  
delay=0.28, delays=0.03/0.02/0/0.22, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 Ok:  
queued as 4A2F98831D)
Nov 14 23:09:46 mail2 postfix/qmgr[42428]: C7DCA84423: removed
Nov 14 23:10:05 mail2 postfix/smtpd[44378]: table hash:/usr/local/etc/ 
postfix/aliases(0,lock|fold_fix) has changed -- restarting
Nov 14 23:10:05 mail2 postfix/smtpd[44756]: connect from wx- 
out-0506.google.com[66.249.82.226]
Nov 14 23:10:05 mail2 postfix/smtpd[44756]: 8BB0A84425: client=wx- 
out-0506.google.com[66.249.82.226]
Nov 14 23:10:05 mail2 postfix/cleanup[44382]: 8BB0A84425: message- 
id=<02B6ECD1-456D-4710-A9F7-E85A0300F724 at gmail.com>
Nov 14 23:10:05 mail2 postfix/qmgr[42428]: 8BB0A84425:  
from=<mymail at gmail.com>, size=1414, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Nov 14 23:10:05 mail2 spamd[48303]: spamd: connection from  
localhost.myhost.com [127.0.0.1] at port 62934
Nov 14 23:10:05 mail2 spamd[48303]: spamd: processing message  
<02B6ECD1-456D-4710-A9F7-E85A0300F724 at gmail.com> for mailman:0
Nov 14 23:10:10 mail2 spamd[48303]: spamd: clean message (0.0/3.5)  
for mailman:0 in 4.8 seconds, 1722 bytes.
Nov 14 23:10:10 mail2 spamd[48303]: spamd: result: . 0 -  
scantime=4.8,size=1722,user=mailman,uid=0,required_score=3.5,rhost=local 
host.myhost.com,raddr=127.0.0.1,rport=62934,mid=<02B6ECD1-456D-4710- 
A9F7-E85A0300F724 at gmail.com>,autolearn=ham
Nov 14 23:10:10 mail2 postfix/local[44758]: 8BB0A84425:  
to=<mylist at mail2.myhost.com>, relay=local, delay=5.3,  
delays=0.29/0.01/0/5, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: / 
usr/local/bin/procmail -m MAILMAN=mylist /usr/local/mailman/ 
spamassassin/procmailrc)
Nov 14 23:10:10 mail2 postfix/qmgr[42428]: 8BB0A84425: removed
Nov 14 23:10:11 mail2 spamd[48302]: prefork: child states: II
Nov 14 23:10:11 mail2 postfix/smtpd[44781]: connect from  
localhost.myhost.com[127.0.0.1]
Nov 14 23:10:11 mail2 postfix/smtpd[44781]: DE84B84423:  
client=localhost.myhost.com[127.0.0.1]
Nov 14 23:10:11 mail2 postfix/cleanup[44382]: DE84B84423: message- 
id=<02B6ECD1-456D-4710-A9F7-E85A0300F724 at gmail.com>
Nov 14 23:10:11 mail2 postfix/qmgr[42428]: DE84B84423: from=<mylist- 
bounces at mail2.myhost.com>, size=2424, nrcpt=2 (queue active)
Nov 14 23:10:11 mail2 postfix/smtpd[44781]: disconnect from  
localhost.myhost.com[127.0.0.1]
Nov 14 23:10:11 mail2 spamd[48303]: spamd: connection from  
localhost.myhost.com [127.0.0.1] at port 58597
Nov 14 23:10:12 mail2 spamd[48303]: spamd: processing message  
<02B6ECD1-456D-4710-A9F7-E85A0300F724 at gmail.com> for root:0
Nov 14 23:10:15 mail2 spamd[48303]: spamd: clean message (-1.4/3.5)  
for root:0 in 3.8 seconds, 2596 bytes.
Nov 14 23:10:15 mail2 spamd[48303]: spamd: result: . -1 -  
SARE_HEAD_XBEEN,SARE_HEAD_XBEEN2  
scantime=3.8,size=2596,user=root,uid=0,required_score=3.5,rhost=localhos 
t.myhost.com,raddr=127.0.0.1,rport=58597,mid=<02B6ECD1-456D-4710-A9F7- 
E85A0300F724 at gmail.com>,autolearn=ham
Nov 14 23:10:15 mail2 postfix/local[44758]: DE84B84423:  
to=<bates at mail2.myhost.com>, relay=local, delay=4,  
delays=0.02/0.01/0/4, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: / 
usr/local/bin/procmail)
Nov 14 23:10:16 mail2 spamd[48302]: prefork: child states: II
Nov 14 23:10:22 mail2 postfix/smtp[44383]: DE84B84423:  
to=<mymail at gmail.com>, relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com 
[64.233.185.114]:25, delay=11, delays=0.02/0.01/11/0.42, dsn=2.0.0,  
status=sent (250 2.0.0 OK 1163563807 39si599795wrl)
Nov 14 23:10:22 mail2 postfix/qmgr[42428]: DE84B84423: removed
Nov 14 23:10:35 mail2 postfix/smtpd[44756]: disconnect from wx- 
out-0506.google.com[66.249.82.226]
Nov 14 23:09:45 mail2 postfix/smtpd[44378]: OTP unavailable because  
can't read/write key database /etc/opiekeys: Permission denied
Nov 14 23:10:05 mail2 postfix/smtpd[44756]: OTP unavailable because  
can't read/write key database /etc/opiekeys: Permission denied
Nov 14 23:10:11 mail2 postfix/smtpd[44781]: OTP unavailable because  
can't read/write key database /etc/opiekeys: Permission denied


============================
=== Email Message
 From mymail at gmail.com  Tue Nov 14 23:10:05 2006
Return-Path: <mymail at gmail.com>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on  
mail2.myhost.com
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=3.5 tests=none autolearn=ham
	version=3.1.7
X-Original-To: mylist at mail2.myhost.com
Delivered-To: mylist at mail2.myhost.com
Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com  
[66.249.82.226])
	by mail2.myhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BB0A84425
	for <mylist at mail2.myhost.com>; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 23:10:05 -0500 (EST)
Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s16so64416wxc
         for <mylist at mail2.myhost.com>; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:09:49  
-0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
         s=beta; d=gmail.com;
         h=received:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:message- 
id:content-type:to:from:subject:date:x-mailer;
         b=SIJk0fLgLuqNpom8S5oKpy72S4FBkKFUm/ 
abJbLFcVsokMgmtnaRPT5dijloSWLbouLn7HRr8Bo+ 
+AmMW2WxB8GQNWawnO1LdqqXQc98s6zbASwb19N6iOmR+eQJChHctiRm4QLtPQxNjTD 
+QRfOGMZb48nOEs8z+Zvm7RbiimQ=
Received: by 10.65.159.2 with SMTP id l2mr1702908qbo.1163563789029;
         Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:09:49 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?172.18.11.139? ( [24.225.178.118])
         by mx.google.com with ESMTP id e13sm336698qba. 
2006.11.14.20.09.48;
         Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:09:48 -0800 (PST)
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-Id: <02B6ECD1-456D-4710-A9F7-E85A0300F724 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
To: mylist at mail2.myhost.com
From: Richard Bates <mymail at gmail.com>
Subject: test 23:09
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 23:09:43 -0500
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3)
X-Procmail-Status: MailmanLevel
X-Virus-Status: No
X-Virus-Checker-Version: clamassassin 1.2.3 with clamdscan / ClamAV  
0.88.6/2195/Tue Nov 14 14:53:04 2006

test



===============================
=== /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases (CLIP)
# STANZA START: mylist
# CREATED: Tue Nov 14 19:58:05 2006
# mylist:             "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mylist"
mylist:             "|/usr/local/bin/procmail -m MAILMAN=mylist /usr/ 
local/mailman/spamassassin/procmailrc"
mylist-admin:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mylist"
mylist-bounces:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mylist"
mylist-confirm:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mylist"
mylist-join:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join mylist"
mylist-leave:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave mylist"
mylist-owner:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mylist"
mylist-request:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mylist"
mylist-subscribe:   "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mylist"
mylist-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe  
mylist"
# STANZA END: mylist


=================================
=== Procmailrc
#### Begin Variables
VERBOSE=yes
SHELL=/bin/sh
LOGFILE=/usr/local/mailman/spamassassin/procmail.log
#### END Variables
# Add Procmailstatus header
:0fw
| formail -a "X-Procmail-Status: MailmanLevel"

:0 Wh: msgid.lock
|formail -D 8192 /usr/local/mailman/spamassassin/${MAILMAN}/msgid.cache

## Check against Clamassassin
:0fw
|/usr/local/bin/clamassassin

## Check against SpamAssassin
:0fw: spamassassin.lock
| spamc -t 0


:0
* ^X-Spam-Flag: YES
/usr/local/mailman/spamassassin/${MAILMAN}/`date "+%Y%m%d"`/Spam/.

:0:
* ^X-Virus-Status: Yes
/usr/local/mailman/spamassassin/${MAILMAN}/`date "+%Y%m%d"`/Virus/.

:0 c
/usr/local/mailman/spamassassin/${MAILMAN}/`date "+%Y%m%d"`/Good/.

:0
|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman  post ${MAILMAN}



============================================
=== Procmail log
procmail: Executing "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman,post,mylist"
procmail: Executing "formail,-a,X-Procmail-Status: MailmanLevel"
procmail: Locking "msgid.lock"
procmail: Executing "formail,-D,8192,/usr/local/mailman/spamassassin/ 
mylist/msgid.cache"
procmail: Non-zero exitcode (1) from "formail"
procmail: Assigning "LASTFOLDER=formail -D 8192 /usr/local/mailman/ 
spamassassin/mylist/msgid.cache"
procmail: Unlocking "msgid.lock"
procmail: Executing "/usr/local/bin/clamassassin"
procmail: Locking "spamassassin.lock"
procmail: Executing "spamc,-t,0"
procmail: [44759] Tue Nov 14 23:10:10 2006
procmail: Unlocking "spamassassin.lock"
procmail: No match on "^X-Spam-Flag: YES"
procmail: No match on "^X-Virus-Status: Yes"
procmail: Executing "date,+%Y%m%d"
procmail: Assigning "LASTFOLDER=/usr/local/mailman/spamassassin/ 
mylist/20061114/Good/19"
procmail: Opening "/usr/local/mailman/spamassassin/mylist/20061114/ 
Good/19"
procmail: Acquiring kernel-lock
procmail: Assigning "LASTFOLDER=/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post  
mylist"
 From mymail at gmail.com  Tue Nov 14 23:10:05 2006
Subject: test 23:09
   Folder: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mylist			   1899
procmail: Executing "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman,post,mylist"



From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Nov 15 05:54:47 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 13:54:47 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  problem with delivery
In-Reply-To: <9C19F879-596A-44AD-9801-2399D6CF9A85@gmail.com>
References: <9C19F879-596A-44AD-9801-2399D6CF9A85@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87velh2tt4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Richard Bates writes:

 > I then tried to send from the gmail account
 > only the local email address received the post.

As I understand it, gmail helpfully filters everything you send out of
your INBOX.  I see a fair number of complaints on one of the mailing
lists I subscribe to that has a lot of gmail users on it about gmail's
general disregard for the existence of mailing lists and the whole
concept of threading.

Presumably you can set preferences to avoid this.

It might be a Mailman issue, but I would start by investigating gmail
since it is known to filter in ways that some users find unintuitive.



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Nov 15 06:00:49 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:00:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with delivery
In-Reply-To: <87velh2tt4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <9C19F879-596A-44AD-9801-2399D6CF9A85@gmail.com>
	<87velh2tt4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061114205747.07dde8a8@crimson-dragon.com>

stephen at xemacs.org sent the message below at 08:54 PM 11/14/2006:
>Richard Bates writes:
>
>  > I then tried to send from the gmail account
>  > only the local email address received the post.
>
>As I understand it, gmail helpfully filters everything you send out of
>your INBOX.  I see a fair number of complaints on one of the mailing
>lists I subscribe to that has a lot of gmail users on it about gmail's
>general disregard for the existence of mailing lists and the whole
>concept of threading.
>
>Presumably you can set preferences to avoid this.
>
>It might be a Mailman issue, but I would start by investigating gmail
>since it is known to filter in ways that some users find unintuitive.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

This is squarely on gmail. Mailman is blameless on this one.

It's my understanding there may be another few web mail services with 
similar issues.

I know that Hotmail is really bad about sending HTML only e-mails 
instead of multipart mixed with a plain-text version. This caused a 
great amount of frustration for one of my users until I was able to 
deduce just what was going on.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From petern at africaonline.co.zw  Wed Nov 15 09:48:49 2006
From: petern at africaonline.co.zw (Peter Nyamukusa)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 10:48:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] using special charaters in a mailing list
Message-ID: <200611151048.49542.petern@africaonline.co.zw>

Hi guys,

Does any one know how use special charaters such as " - " in a mailing list ie 
test-mailinglist at example.com

-- 
Peter Nyamukusa



From cmowen at att.net  Wed Nov 15 11:59:15 2006
From: cmowen at att.net (Charles M. Owen)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 05:59:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribers bouncing
In-Reply-To: <009601c70827$eabbee40$6401a8c0@Monkeemachine2>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAJQ0nI3Qft0+nbxUwgjQeksKAAAAQAAAApuR++QnmUUGCJf72w62IegEAAAAA@att.net>

My little meager 150 name list started bouncing after I added 50'ish new
names. In my case, the error was "unrouteable mail domain" and I found out
from the provider of the server, he was "throttling" outgoing mails at 100
per hour!!!! Could it be you are throttled at 300 (90% of 3000)?

Look for that, but definitely figure out and post what the stated reason is
for the bounce.

Charles "hoping for my own server someday" Owen

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+cmowen=att.net at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+cmowen=att.net at python.org] On Behalf Of Debbie
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 3:03 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribers bouncing

I checked the archives and didn't find what I was looking for, so please 
forgive me if this has been answered already.
I keep having about 90% of my 3000 subscribers bouncing on a regular basis. 
I've checked and most are good addresses. Even the address that I use keeps 
bouncing, and sending me the bounce message, even though I get all the 
messages I send.
 Have I done something wrong? Does it have something to do with it being an 
annoucement list?
It's getting to be an awful lot of work to manually contact the bounced 
subscribers to make sure they are still online and then to take the bounce 
off of their account. Only to have to go through it a few weeks later and do

it again.
Can anyone help me?
Thanks in advance,
Debbie 

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From seeleman at gse.upenn.edu  Wed Nov 15 16:57:27 2006
From: seeleman at gse.upenn.edu (Todd Seeleman)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 10:57:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too Many Lists?
In-Reply-To: <17728.12662.361380.228327@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <05b401c6f846$33879300$1400000a@reuben>
	<17728.12662.361380.228327@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <455B38E7.2060807@gse.upenn.edu>

Greetings,

    I've been happily converting text/aliases based lists to mailman 
(Tru64 Unix v5.1b, Apache Server version: Apache/2.0.54, Mailman 
version: 2.1.9) and everything has been working great.  I have 150 lists 
with ~16,000 addresses distributed among them.  Most of the lists are < 
100 with a few > 2000.  I find when I add another list things get goofy. 
  I can get to a list's admin page fine but when I click on another 
link, even a documentation or logout link, I get a "web page not found" 
browser message.  At this point I cannot even logout from the admin 
page.  When I remove the additional list operation returns to normal. 
I've checked_perms, restarted apache & mailman, and searched the FAQ all 
with no luck.  I seem to be on the boarder of some system limit.  Any ideas?

-- 

  *****************************************************************
   Todd Seeleman, Systems Analyst
   Penn Graduate School of Education
   3440 Market Street, Rm 477        email: seeleman at gse.upenn.edu
   Philadelphia, PA. 19104-3325      phone: 215-573-8378
  *****************************************************************


______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email 
______________________________________________________________________


From snake.lists at snakepit.net  Wed Nov 15 16:55:20 2006
From: snake.lists at snakepit.net (Snake)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:55:20 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam
Message-ID: <002101c708ce$74f077b0$a435c53e@enterprise>


I am getting a huge amount of spam sent to my list owner addresses for all
my lists, is there any way I can stop this?
Can I setup my lists so that only mailman itself can email me and that other
people cannot send email to list-owner at mylist.com

--
Russ




From raquel at thericehouse.net  Wed Nov 15 18:05:46 2006
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:05:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam
In-Reply-To: <002101c708ce$74f077b0$a435c53e@enterprise>
References: <002101c708ce$74f077b0$a435c53e@enterprise>
Message-ID: <20061115090546.5c2403e4.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:55:20 -0000
"Snake" <snake.lists at snakepit.net> wrote:

> 
> I am getting a huge amount of spam sent to my list owner addresses
> for all my lists, is there any way I can stop this?
> Can I setup my lists so that only mailman itself can email me and
> that other people cannot send email to list-owner at mylist.com
> 
> --
> Russ
> 
> 

I'm getting a huge amount sent to the "master" list: 
mailman at mylist.com

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
Man's fear of ideas is probably the greatest dike holding back human
knowledge and happiness.
  --Morris Leopold Ernst



From thomas.stocker at acceleris.ch  Wed Nov 15 17:25:38 2006
From: thomas.stocker at acceleris.ch (Thomas Stocker)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:25:38 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail error: collect: premature EOM: unexpected
	close
Message-ID: <web-2363046@bersier.net>

Hello List

I know this is a sendmail problem, but maybe one of you 
has experience with this case.

I've set up mailman on a Solaris 9 SPARC box. All runs 
fine, exept one mail (which contains no special chars like 
| (pipes) nor is the subject too long) coming from a java 
app is discarded by sendmail and thus not arriving 
mailman. I've searched the whole day, but found nothing. 
I've also patched sendmail to:

220 bahamas.sila.local ESMTP Sendmail 8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8; 
Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:14:36 +0100 (CET)

/var/log/syslog states

Nov 15 14:25:47 bahamas sendmail[2873]: [ID 801593 
mail.warning] kAFDElPY002873: collect: premature EOM: 
unexpected close
Nov 15 14:25:47 bahamas sendmail[2873]: [ID 801593 
mail.notice] kAFDElPY002873: collect: unexpected close on 
connection from swexch01lpro.sila.local, 
sender=<CheckTpsAckCnfMailTask at sila.local>
Nov 15 14:25:47 bahamas sendmail[2873]: [ID 801593 
mail.info] kAFDElPY002873: 
from=<CheckTpsAckCnfMailTask at sila.local>, size=1219, 
class=0, nrcpts=1, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, 
relay=swexch01lpro.sila.local [172.25.2.76]

/var/adm/messages says

Nov 10 14:19:28 bahamas sendmail[17781]: [ID 801593 
mail.crit] kAADCavb017781: SYSERR(root): collect: I/O 
error on connection from swexch02rpro.sila.local, 
from=<CheckTpsAckCnfMailTask at sila.local>

The network ist stable. MTUs are set correctly. Sending 
Server is an MS Exchange. All other mails from this (and
others) server are accepted.

exchange banner:

220 SWEXCH.sila.local Microsoft ESMTP MAIL Service, 
Version: 6.0.3790.1830 ready at  Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:18:58 
+0100

I have no clue for what to look, any ideas would be 
greatly appreciated, with an older Sendmail 
8.12.10+Sun/8.12.2 we did not have seen this problem.

TIA

Tom Stocker


From thomas.stocker at acceleris.ch  Thu Nov 16 10:19:33 2006
From: thomas.stocker at acceleris.ch (Thomas Stocker)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 10:19:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail error: collect: premature EOM: unexpected
	close
Message-ID: <web-2363450@bersier.net>

Hello List

I know this is a sendmail problem, but maybe one of you 
has experience with this case.

I've set up mailman 2.1.8 on a Solaris 9 SPARC box. All 
runs fine, exept one mail coming from a java app is 
discarded by sendmail and thus not arriving mailman. I've 
searched the whole day, but found nothing. I've also 
patched sendmail to:

220 bahamas.sila.local ESMTP Sendmail 8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8; 
Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:14:36 +0100 (CET)

/var/log/syslog states

Nov 15 14:25:47 bahamas sendmail[2873]: [ID 801593 
mail.warning] kAFDElPY002873: collect: premature EOM: 
unexpected close
Nov 15 14:25:47 bahamas sendmail[2873]: [ID 801593 
mail.notice] kAFDElPY002873: collect: unexpected close on 
connection from swexch01lpro.sila.local, 
sender=<CheckTpsAckCnfMailTask at sila.local>
Nov 15 14:25:47 bahamas sendmail[2873]: [ID 801593 
mail.info] kAFDElPY002873: 
from=<CheckTpsAckCnfMailTask at sila.local>, size=1219, 
class=0, nrcpts=1, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, 
relay=swexch01lpro.sila.local [172.25.2.76]

/var/adm/messages says

Nov 10 14:19:28 bahamas sendmail[17781]: [ID 801593 
mail.crit] kAADCavb017781: SYSERR(root): collect: I/O 
error on connection from swexch02rpro.sila.local, 
from=<CheckTpsAckCnfMailTask at sila.local>

The network ist stable. MTUs are set correctly. Sending 
Server is an MS Exchange (220 SWEXCH.sila.local Microsoft 
ESMTP MAIL Service,  Version: 6.0.3790.1830 ready at  Wed, 
15 Nov 2006 17:18:58 +0100). All other mails from this 
(and others) server are accepted and threatened correctly.

I have no clue for what to look for, any ideas would be 
appreciated greatly.

TIA

Tom Stocker

-- Acceleris GmbH | and IT works
Thomas Stocker | Technical Consultant Linux / Solaris
Webergutstr. 2 | CH-3052 Zollikofen
t +41 31 911 33 22 | m +41 78 609 08 85
thomas.stocker (at) acceleris.ch | www.acceleris.ch


From rnodal at andromeda.rutgers.edu  Thu Nov 16 17:16:19 2006
From: rnodal at andromeda.rutgers.edu (Rogelio Nodal)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 11:16:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] make mailman resend creation email again.
Message-ID: <1163693779.17522.7.camel@localhost>

Hello all:

I have read the mailman manual but still haven't have luck  in finding
what I want. I want mailman to resend the creation email for a list that
I created because the users that requested it have not received the
email yet. This is the only list that have had problems. Is there a
command to do this? Thanks a lot for your time. You help will be
appreciated.

-r 



From rustyw007 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 16 18:39:26 2006
From: rustyw007 at yahoo.com (Rusty Wilson)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 09:39:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] finding the date a user subscribed
Message-ID: <20061116173926.32885.qmail@web84006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Question: is there an easy (or not so easy) way to get a list of users subscribed to a particular list, along with the date they subscribed?

I've checked the admin interface (user management) and dont see a way to get at this info. I'm looking at the "back-end" now, but wondering if someone has already done this, or has some insight for me.

Thanks!
Rusty





From albinootje at gmail.com  Thu Nov 16 18:53:33 2006
From: albinootje at gmail.com (albi albinootje)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 18:53:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] finding the date a user subscribed
In-Reply-To: <20061116173926.32885.qmail@web84006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20061116173926.32885.qmail@web84006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6a1189840611160953q6931f308t1e61f9b1a38825cd@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/16/06, Rusty Wilson <rustyw007 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Question: is there an easy (or not so easy) way to get a list of users subscribed to a
> particular list, along with the date they subscribed?
>
> I've checked the admin interface (user management) and dont see a way to get at this info.
> I'm looking at the "back-end" now, but wondering if someone has already done this, or has
> some insight for me.

check the mailman logfiles, one of those logfiles should have that info


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov 16 19:03:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 10:03:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] finding the date a user subscribed
In-Reply-To: <20061116173926.32885.qmail@web84006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006111610032301560a32ef13@msapiro>

Rusty Wilson wrote:

>Question: is there an easy (or not so easy) way to get a list of users subscribed to a particular list,


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>.


>along with the date they subscribed?


The date is only available in Mailman's 'subscribe' log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From seeleman at gse.upenn.edu  Thu Nov 16 19:20:47 2006
From: seeleman at gse.upenn.edu (Todd Seeleman)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 13:20:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Too Many Lists?
Message-ID: <455CABFF.4080600@gse.upenn.edu>


Greetings,

     I've been happily converting text/aliases based lists to mailman
(Tru64 Unix v5.1b, Sendmail 8.13.7, Apache Server version: 
Apache/2.0.54, Mailman version: 2.1.9) and everything has been working 
great.  I have ~150 lists with ~16,000 addresses distributed among them. 
  Most of the lists are < 100 with a few > 2000.  I find when I add 
another list things get goofy.  I can get to a list's admin page fine 
but when I click on another link, even a documentation or logout link, I 
get a "web page not found" browser message.  At this point I cannot even 
logout from the admin page.  When I remove the additional list operation 
returns to normal. I've checked_perms, restarted apache & mailman, and 
searched the FAQ all with no luck.  I seem to be on the border of some 
system limit.  I also copied the installation to a similar, backup 
system and got the same results.  Any ideas?

Todd Seeleman

-- 

   *****************************************************************
    Todd Seeleman, Systems Analyst
    Penn Graduate School of Education
    3440 Market Street, Rm 477        email: seeleman at gse.upenn.edu
    Philadelphia, PA. 19104-3325      phone: 215-573-8378
   *****************************************************************



______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email 
______________________________________________________________________


From raquel at thericehouse.net  Thu Nov 16 20:03:03 2006
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 11:03:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL Rant
Message-ID: <20061116110303.08c46ffe.raquel@thericehouse.net>

I've been hosting a few lists using Mailman for quite some time now.
 Recently AOL has started deferring emails from my server, possibly
because one person on a list started a new subscription when they
left AOL and didn't cancel the subscription to the defunct AOL
address.

AOL sucks!

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
Nobody is free until everybody is free.
  --William T. Atkins



From addw at phcomp.co.uk  Thu Nov 16 20:05:09 2006
From: addw at phcomp.co.uk (Alain Williams)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 19:05:09 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL Rant
In-Reply-To: <20061116110303.08c46ffe.raquel@thericehouse.net>
References: <20061116110303.08c46ffe.raquel@thericehouse.net>
Message-ID: <20061116190509.GJ9897@mint.phcomp.co.uk>

On Thu, Nov 16, 2006 at 11:03:03AM -0800, Raquel wrote:
> I've been hosting a few lists using Mailman for quite some time now.
>  Recently AOL has started deferring emails from my server, possibly
> because one person on a list started a new subscription when they
> left AOL and didn't cancel the subscription to the defunct AOL
> address.

AFIR AOL will do this if they see lots of mail coming from you, it is an
anti spam measure. If you contact them and say that you run mail lists
they will enter you into their OK list.

-- 
Alain Williams
Parliament Hill Computers Ltd.
Linux Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT Lecturer.
+44 (0) 787 668 0256  http://www.phcomp.co.uk/

#include <std_disclaimer.h>


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Nov 16 20:24:17 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 13:24:17 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam
In-Reply-To: <002101c708ce$74f077b0$a435c53e@enterprise>
References: <002101c708ce$74f077b0$a435c53e@enterprise>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611161124n1da51957nc03e8382de773777@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/15/06, Snake <snake.lists at snakepit.net> wrote:
>
> I am getting a huge amount of spam sent to my list owner addresses for all
> my lists, is there any way I can stop this?
> Can I setup my lists so that only mailman itself can email me and that other
> people cannot send email to list-owner at mylist.com

This would have to be done on the MTA level, since I believe the
handling of list-owner in mailman is pretty simplistic (i.e., pull a
variable and redirect the mail).

Alternatively, you can always implement reasonable spam filtering
technologies at the MTA level to keep spam away from mailman (which is
where it belongs. Far, far away from mailman.)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From gsexton at mhsoftware.com  Thu Nov 16 22:19:22 2006
From: gsexton at mhsoftware.com (George Sexton)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 14:19:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] IncomingRunner reached maximum restart
Message-ID: <455CD5DA.2060703@mhsoftware.com>

I've got a situation with a list that is causing problems. I'm sorry 
this is so long, but here's the things I've done. I've searched the 
archives and I don't seem to see anything that applies.

I'm using Mailman 2.1.7 and I have a list that I can post to. Another 
person cannot post to this list. Any message they send kills the 
IncomingRunner. This person is a moderator on the list, and a list 
administrator. The person who cannot post to List A can post to List B 
without issue.

When the IncomingRunner dies, the new message appears in the qfiles/in 
folder with an extension of .bak. I've tried deleting and re-creating 
the list and it still dies. If I remove the .bak message and re-start 
Mailman, then any queued messages are sent or discarded.

I've looked through the log files, and there are no informative error 
messages that seem to shed any light on this.

I'd really appreciate any kind of help on this issue.

-- 
George Sexton
MH Software, Inc.
Voice: +1 303 438 9585
URL:   http://www.mhsoftware.com/



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov 16 22:42:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 13:42:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Clean up Archives
In-Reply-To: <200611140923.23336.tony.molloy@ul.ie>
Message-ID: <PC176020061116134246043771dbf043@msapiro>

Tony Molloy wrote:
>
>I know I can delete messages from the list manually by editing the mbox 
>files but I was wondering if it was possibe to "expire the archives" in 
>some way.


I think you would have to create some process as a shell script, Python
script, etc. to delete old messages from the .mbox file and run
bin/arch to rebuild, and then run this process periodically via cron.

Doing this would also invalidate any saved URLs linking to archived
messages as all the message numbers would change.

If you're only concerned about the attachments, you could just
periodically remove all the archives/private/<listname>/attachments/*
directories older than some cutoff.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov 16 22:49:26 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 13:49:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalized Email
In-Reply-To: <98790940-DB42-4CC4-84CD-E9D1AC17E2BA@pitt.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020061116134926048471dbf05e@msapiro>

Jan Shaw wrote:

>How do I show the individual email addresses of recipient in their  
>To: window ?  They are all members of a list but the sender wants it  
>to look like they are receiving an individual email from him.  I am  
>researching FAQ 3.15. How do I enable personalization.  Is this the  
>right place for the answer? I am unable to locate the "enable  
>personalization to true"  Thanks for your help.


Yes, FAQ 3.15 is the place.

Do you see personalization options on the Non-digest options page in
the admin interface. If not, as the FAQ says, you need to "set the
OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION variable to true" in mm_cfg.py.

If this is your Mailman installation, you (or your site admin or
Mailman admin staff) can do this. If this Mailman is hosted by some
servce provider, then you have to ask them and they may refuse to do
it because of performance concerns.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From atrick at prin.edu  Thu Nov 16 22:59:26 2006
From: atrick at prin.edu (Allan Trick)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:59:26 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dealing with bounce counts and bounced users
In-Reply-To: <20061017192112.GO31955@mint.phcomp.co.uk>
References: <009701c6f213$15881ca0$4af39280@oitlan.oit.ohiostate.edu>
	<6fbe3da00610171055w9e706b9s6566be8553286061@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061017192112.GO31955@mint.phcomp.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20061116155241.030e4d88@mail.prin.edu>

Yahoo! Mail has not been nice to our domain lately.  Since early 
November any messages (including all the ones sent from our Mailman 
system) to people with Yahoo email addresses have bounced--rejected 
by the Yahoo! Mail servers.

I lodged a complaint with Yahoo... it didn't seem like we had done 
anything wrong on our end.  Not an open relay, etc., etc.  They 
acknowledged there was a problem, and day after day the problem 
continued.  The more of our lists an individual with a Yahoo address 
was on, the quicker he or she exceeded the bounce limit.  As of today 
45 people have the "nomail" box checked because of bounces.

But it now looks like Yahoo has finally fixed the problem on their 
end that caused our mail to get rejected.  That's good news!  But 
I've already emailed all the people who have stopped getting mail 
from us via Mailman (I wrote them from a Gmail account since I 
couldn't get to them from my prin.edu account), and have suggested 
they get another email address and change it in Mailman.  That was 
yesterday.  And now that Yahoo is receiving mail from us again, I'm 
going to tell all those people "Never mind."

Here's my question:  how do I uncheck "nomail" for all those people 
that Mailman didn't think we could communicate with?  Do I need to go 
in to each one and manually do it?  Also, should I reset the bounce 
count for those folks?  If so, how is that done?

Thank you!

Allan Trick 



From md6969 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 16 22:59:25 2006
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:59:25 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL Rant
In-Reply-To: <mailman.714.1163713777.32030.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.714.1163713777.32030.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <455CDF3D.1020701@gmail.com>

mailman-users-request at python.org wrote:
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject:
> [Mailman-Users] AOL Rant
> From:
> Raquel <raquel at thericehouse.net>
> Date:
> Thu, 16 Nov 2006 11:03:03 -0800
> To:
> Mailman-Users at python.org
>
> To:
> Mailman-Users at python.org
>
>
> I've been hosting a few lists using Mailman for quite some time now.
>  Recently AOL has started deferring emails from my server, possibly
> because one person on a list started a new subscription when they
> left AOL and didn't cancel the subscription to the defunct AOL
> address.
>
> AOL sucks!
>
>   
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject:
> Re: [Mailman-Users] AOL Rant
> From:
> Alain Williams <addw at phcomp.co.uk>
> Date:
> Thu, 16 Nov 2006 19:05:09 +0000
> To:
> Raquel <raquel at thericehouse.net>
>
> To:
> Raquel <raquel at thericehouse.net>
> CC:
> Mailman-Users at python.org
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 16, 2006 at 11:03:03AM -0800, Raquel wrote:
>   
>> I've been hosting a few lists using Mailman for quite some time now.
>>  Recently AOL has started deferring emails from my server, possibly
>> because one person on a list started a new subscription when they
>> left AOL and didn't cancel the subscription to the defunct AOL
>> address.
>>     
>
> AFIR AOL will do this if they see lots of mail coming from you, it is an
> anti spam measure. If you contact them and say that you run mail lists
> they will enter you into their OK list.
Not all the time they won't. I found out (the hard way) that even being 
added to their whitelist is no guarantee that they'll deliver your mail. 
However, I have the contact details for the UK AOL Anti-spam analyst 
(after making a lot of noise) and discovered why AOL do what they do.

It can be dependant on some of the URL's that your users regularly add 
to their signature. If the site that's there is on AOL's blacklist, the 
whole mail gets bounced. All you can do at that point is to tell your 
users to refrain from adding the URL. It worked for me - now, I don't 
get any AOL members bouncing.

MD


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov 16 23:09:13 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 14:09:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do you turn off e-mail command results?
In-Reply-To: <4559D833.3070000@graphicbliss.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061116140913023471dbef57@msapiro>

Ben Swihart wrote:
>
>When users subscribe, I like sending them a "welcome" e-mail with introductions, 
>instructions, etc.  However, if you send an e-mail to list-subscribe at domain.com,
>we are getting this back:
>
>"The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your
>original message.
>
>- Results:
>    Subscription request succeeded.
>
>- Done."
>
>Is there a way to disable command result notifications?


Attached is a patch against Mailman 2.1.6 to do this. The line numbers
will need adjusting for other releases.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From jimpop at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 16 23:27:54 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:27:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] default reject message
Message-ID: <1163716074.6569.5.camel@localhost>

Is there a way to change the default reject message when denying posts
from non-subscribers via admindb?

Tia,

-Jim P.



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 17 00:04:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:04:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] using special charaters in a mailing list
In-Reply-To: <200611151048.49542.petern@africaonline.co.zw>
Message-ID: <PC176020061116150458093726fb3243@msapiro>

Peter Nyamukusa wrote:
>
>Does any one know how use special charaters such as " - " in a mailing list ie 
>test-mailinglist at example.com


There is nothing in Mailman per se that prohibits using a hyphen (dash,
minus sign) in a list name. I have several lists with hyphenated names.

If you are having difficulty, it may because your MTA treats any '-' in
the local part as a delimiter (whch would also render the list-owner,
list-bounces, etc. addresses unuseable) or some other MTA
configuration issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 17 00:20:07 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:20:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam
In-Reply-To: <002101c708ce$74f077b0$a435c53e@enterprise>
Message-ID: <PC176020061116152007095326fb3220@msapiro>

Snake wrote:
>
>I am getting a huge amount of spam sent to my list owner addresses for all
>my lists, is there any way I can stop this?
>Can I setup my lists so that only mailman itself can email me and that other
>people cannot send email to list-owner at mylist.com


As Patrick says in another reply, spam filtering is best done in the
incoming MTA, before it ever gets to Mailman.

However, to answer your question, mail to the -owner address is
processed through a pipeline of handlers defined as OWNER_PIPELINE in
Defaults.py. SpamDetect (i.e.processing of header_filter_rules) is in
that pipeline, but it probably isn't feasable to use
header_filter_rules for this as the same rules apply to list posts,
but you could implement a simple custom handler to discard any message
that didn't have a message-id of the form generated by mailman or a
mailman-like envelope sender or from address and add that to the
OWNER_PIPELINE list.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.067.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 17 00:44:57 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:44:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] make mailman resend creation email again.
In-Reply-To: <1163693779.17522.7.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC176020061116154457037526fb3010@msapiro>

Rogelio Nodal wrote:
>
>I have read the mailman manual but still haven't have luck  in finding
>what I want. I want mailman to resend the creation email for a list that
>I created because the users that requested it have not received the
>email yet. This is the only list that have had problems. Is there a
>command to do this? Thanks a lot for your time. You help will be
>appreciated.


There is no way to resend the created notice other than to remove the
list and create it again, but why do you need to resend the notice.
You can just tell them the list is created and what the list password
is. If you don't know the list password, set a new one via the web
admin interface using the site password to log in. Or you can set a
new list password via bin/change_pw which will notify the owner.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Fri Nov 17 01:13:31 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (=?UTF-8?B?6I+K5Zyw5pmC5aSr?=)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:13:31 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] IncomingRunner reached maximum restart
In-Reply-To: <455CD5DA.2060703@mhsoftware.com>
References: <455CD5DA.2060703@mhsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <455CFEAB.9000509@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

George Sexton wrote:

> 
> When the IncomingRunner dies, the new message appears in the qfiles/in 
> folder with an extension of .bak. I've tried deleting and re-creating 
> the list and it still dies. If I remove the .bak message and re-start 
> Mailman, then any queued messages are sent or discarded.

I've filed a bug report and a patch in the sourceforge tracker.
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1598087&group_id=103&atid=100103

It may not apply cleanly to the 2.1.7 version but the point is deleting 
lines starting from 'except...' and to the next 'try:' line.

The errorneous messages should be shunted and you can check them in 
qfiles/shunt directory.

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 17 01:21:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:21:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do you turn off e-mail command results?
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061116140913023471dbef57@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC17602006111616213404536d73f047@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Ben Swihart wrote:
>>
>>When users subscribe, I like sending them a "welcome" e-mail with introductions, 
>>instructions, etc.  However, if you send an e-mail to list-subscribe at domain.com,
>>we are getting this back:
>>
>>"The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your
>>original message.
>>
>>- Results:
>>    Subscription request succeeded.
>>
>>- Done."
>>
>>Is there a way to disable command result notifications?
>
>
>Attached is a patch against Mailman 2.1.6 to do this. The line numbers
>will need adjusting for other releases.


BTW, the command results should not be sent if a welcome will be sent
(send_welcome_msg on General Options is Yes) even without the patch.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 17 01:29:22 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:29:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dealing with bounce counts and bounced users
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20061116155241.030e4d88@mail.prin.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602006111616292207506d73f164@msapiro>

Allan Trick wrote:
>
>Here's my question:  how do I uncheck "nomail" for all those people 
>that Mailman didn't think we could communicate with?  Do I need to go 
>in to each one and manually do it?  Also, should I reset the bounce 
>count for those folks?  If so, how is that done?


Re-enabling delivery will reset the bounce count.

See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-February/049447.html>
for how.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 17 01:52:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:52:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] scripts/owners not setting list domain
In-Reply-To: <20061115014614.GB16423@pir.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602006111616520601406d73eef2@msapiro>

Peter Radcliffe wrote:
>
>I checked I had gotten rid of all the old variables, had run
>add_virtualhost() properly in mm_cfg.py, ran fix_url, restarted the
>qrunners, etc, everything I could find about it until I ran
>across;
>  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-April/050706.html
>
>It seems, as that person says, that scripts/owner calls
>Utils.get_site_email() with no hostname which goes through
>get_domain() to get where it's looking for... which pulls the hostname
>out of mm_cfg.DEFAULT_URL_HOST.


Yes, but then it looks that up in VIRTUAL_HOSTS


>Now, to my mind, using a URL host for email is never the right answer
>unless no DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST has been configured.


Agreed


>My mm_cfg.py section is thus;
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'list.pir.net'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.pir.net'
>VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>I can't see a way to configure that to get what I think is the right
>answer from 
>  hostname = mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOSTS.get(get_domain(), get_domain())
>but perhaps I'm missing something.


The above says call get_domain() and use the result as a key to be
looked up in VIRTUAL_HOSTS and return the value associated with that
key or if the key is not found, return the result of get_domain().

So get_domain() should return DEFAULT_URL_HOST which when looked up in
VIRTUAL_HOSTS should return DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.

I suspect since this is a Mailman 2.0.x upgrade that you may still have
a setting for DEFAULT_URL in mm_cfg.py. If so, remove it, and any
setting for DEFAULT_HOST_NAME. These are deprecated and if present
will override DEFAULT_URL_HOST in get_domain().

>My answer was the following patch to scripts/owner. Since there is a
>known list name at that point why not get the domain to use from it's
>config?

Your patch is OK, but it shouldn't be necessary and it affects bounce
processing which is tricky for owners anyway.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ifetch at du.edu  Fri Nov 17 01:54:56 2006
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:54:56 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] request.pck does not match heldmsg-Listname files
Message-ID: <20061116172925.U69595@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

Hello,


    I've noticed heldmsg-ListName-* files in mailman/data, which the 
request.pck file for the given list isn't aware of (the pickle only has a 
version string).

    Is there something which others have used to iterate the request.pck 
file of all lists, and determine orphaned files in the mailman/data 
directory so they can be deleted?


Thanks,

Ivan Fetch.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 17 02:16:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:16:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] request.pck does not match heldmsg-Listname
	files
In-Reply-To: <20061116172925.U69595@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
Message-ID: <PC17602006111617161508596d73f1ca@msapiro>

Ivan Fetch wrote:
>
>    I've noticed heldmsg-ListName-* files in mailman/data, which the 
>request.pck file for the given list isn't aware of (the pickle only has a 
>version string).
>
>    Is there something which others have used to iterate the request.pck 
>file of all lists, and determine orphaned files in the mailman/data 
>directory so they can be deleted?


I'm not aware of anything that has been written to check for/remove
orphaned heldmsg-list-* files, but if the request.pck is empty
(i.e.contains only the version info), you can just remove any
heldmsg-list-* files either directly or with bin/delete.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 17 06:16:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:16:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] default reject message
In-Reply-To: <1163716074.6569.5.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC17602006111621162307186d73f145@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:

>Is there a way to change the default reject message when denying posts
>from non-subscribers via admindb?


Only by changing the message in the definition of the NonMemberPost
class in Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py and/or any translations in
messages/<language>/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po (and rebuilding mailman.mo).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Nov 17 05:27:18 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:27:18 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL Rant
In-Reply-To: <20061116190509.GJ9897@mint.phcomp.co.uk>
References: <20061116110303.08c46ffe.raquel@thericehouse.net>
	<20061116190509.GJ9897@mint.phcomp.co.uk>
Message-ID: <p06240501c182ea429d3e@[10.0.1.11]>

At 7:05 PM +0000 11/16/06, Alain Williams wrote:

>  AFIR AOL will do this if they see lots of mail coming from you, it is an
>  anti spam measure. If you contact them and say that you run mail lists
>  they will enter you into their OK list.

Speaking as the former Sr. Internet Mail System Administrator for 
AOL, I understand all too well what they're doing and why, and just 
how stupid some of their stuff is.

That said, problems with AOL are well-known, and there are entries in 
the FAQ wizard that will provide you the information you need to do 
the best you can to work around the ones we know about.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From gsauthof at TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE  Fri Nov 17 11:47:04 2006
From: gsauthof at TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE (Georg Sauthoff)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 11:47:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
Message-ID: <20061117104704.GA16353@antipasto.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>

Hi,

when someone subscribes to my mailman mailinglist I get a subscription
request (like I configured it):
[..]
At your convenience, visit: http://www.etc.example.org/foo/bar
[..]

Hm, this is not the convenience I imagined.

Is it possible to configure mailman in such a way, that the admin is
able to approve such subscription requests via mail?

E.g. mailman could send some hash with the request and I would simply reply
adding an approve/deny command string to it.

Btw, it looks like the subject of the subscription request is localized
according to the users language choice. The body is localized to the
admin language choice.

(I am using mailman 2.1.5-9ubuntu4.)

Best regards
Georg Sauthoff

PS: Is it ok, if I submit a subscribtion request for this list to
www.gmane.org (a nntp gateway and web-archive of mailinglists)?

PPS: Perhaps you could remove the direct link to this list from
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/lists.html (in the left row) -
because the list requires subscription.

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From pir at pir.net  Fri Nov 17 12:44:08 2006
From: pir at pir.net (Peter Radcliffe)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 11:44:08 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] scripts/owners not setting list domain
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006111616520601406d73eef2@msapiro>
References: <20061115014614.GB16423@pir.net>
	<PC17602006111616520601406d73eef2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061117114408.GA243@pir.net>

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> probably said:
> Peter Radcliffe wrote:
> >Utils.get_site_email() with no hostname which goes through
> >get_domain() to get where it's looking for... which pulls the hostname
> >out of mm_cfg.DEFAULT_URL_HOST.
> Yes, but then it looks that up in VIRTUAL_HOSTS

I've got what the Defaults file and the FAQ says is the default
setting for virtual hosts for my url/email hosts.

> >My mm_cfg.py section is thus;
> >------------------------------------------------------------------
> >DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'list.pir.net'
> >DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.pir.net'
> >VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
> >add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> >------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >I can't see a way to configure that to get what I think is the right
> >answer from 
> >  hostname = mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOSTS.get(get_domain(), get_domain())
> >but perhaps I'm missing something.
> 
> The above says call get_domain() and use the result as a key to be
> looked up in VIRTUAL_HOSTS and return the value associated with that
> key or if the key is not found, return the result of get_domain().
> 
> So get_domain() should return DEFAULT_URL_HOST which when looked up in
> VIRTUAL_HOSTS should return DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.

I'd say that if that even given a misconfiguration, if the
VIRTUAL_HOSTS lookup fails it should be falling back to
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST, not returning DEFAULT_URL_HOST which it seems to
be to me.

> I suspect since this is a Mailman 2.0.x upgrade that you may still have
> a setting for DEFAULT_URL in mm_cfg.py. If so, remove it, and any
> setting for DEFAULT_HOST_NAME. These are deprecated and if present
> will override DEFAULT_URL_HOST in get_domain().

Nope, I checked quite specificly through the upgrade instructions and
the config code and removed all the old config options. Still couldn't
get it to use the DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.

  # fgrep DEFAULT_URL ~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
  DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.pir.net'
  add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
  DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
  # fgrep DEFAULT_HOST_NAME ~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
  # 

My names config section is as I listed above, the rest is smtp,
archive, qrunners, etc, settings, which all seem to give the desired
results.

> Your patch is OK, but it shouldn't be necessary and it affects bounce
> processing which is tricky for owners anyway.

If it shouldn't be necessary then I'm missing something since I can't
get that chunk of code to output the right answer... admittedly my
python is a bit rusty, though.

Ta,
P.

-- 
pir



From gherzig at fmed.uba.ar  Fri Nov 17 14:45:15 2006
From: gherzig at fmed.uba.ar (Gerardo Herzig)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 10:45:15 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] request.pck does not match heldmsg-Listname
	files
In-Reply-To: <20061116172925.U69595@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
References: <20061116172925.U69595@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
Message-ID: <455DBCEB.7060700@fmed.uba.ar>

Well, if mailman do not provide such a tool, there is lots of quick ways 
to find such a files: Lets assume that any given .pck file must have at 
least 5 lines to be considered a `good one'. So you can find those files 
who have less than 5 lines, then you can delete it

Simple python oneliner for finding .pck files fewer than 5 lines:
cd ~mailman/data
python

 >>> import glob
 >>>'\n'.join([x[0] for x in [(open(y).name, len(open(y).readlines())) 
for y in glob.glob('*.pck')] if x[1] < 5])

## the (if x[1] < 5) at the end is the total lines for each file.
Try it and watch. If you like it, you can save it as 
find_orphaned_files.py and do

./find_orphaned_files.py | xargs ~mailman/bin/discard

Or something like this. Its just an idea, hope to be helpfull.

Bye!
Gerardo

>Hello,
>
>
>    I've noticed heldmsg-ListName-* files in mailman/data, which the 
>request.pck file for the given list isn't aware of (the pickle only has a 
>version string).
>
>    Is there something which others have used to iterate the request.pck 
>file of all lists, and determine orphaned files in the mailman/data 
>directory so they can be deleted?
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Ivan Fetch.
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/gherzig%40fmed.uba.ar
>
>Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>
>  
>



From anne.ramey at ncmail.net  Fri Nov 17 14:57:00 2006
From: anne.ramey at ncmail.net (Anne Ramey)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 08:57:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too Many Lists?
Message-ID: <455DBFAC.5030009@ncmail.net>

    Greetings,

        I've been happily converting text/aliases based lists to mailman
    (Tru64 Unix v5.1b, Sendmail 8.13.7, Apache Server version:
    Apache/2.0.54, Mailman version: 2.1.9) and everything has been
    working great.  I have ~150 lists with ~16,000 addresses distributed
    among them.  Most of the lists are < 100 with a few > 2000.  I find
    when I add another list things get goofy.  I can get to a list's
    admin page fine but when I click on another link, even a
    documentation or logout link, I get a "web page not found" browser
    message.  At this point I cannot even logout from the admin page. 
    When I remove the additional list operation returns to normal. I've
    checked_perms, restarted apache & mailman, and searched the FAQ all
    with no luck.  I seem to be on the border of some system limit.  I
    also copied the installation to a similar, backup system and got the
    same results.  Any ideas?

    Todd Seeleman


I'm happily running 239 Mailman lists, the largest of which has /5/970 
at the moment on mailman 2.1.9.  //I have previously run mailman lists 
with >200K addresses on them on earlier versions of Mailman.  I've not 
see this issue.  I did have an issue similar to this when my url was not 
being set successfully and all of the links were trying to go to a 
non-existent domain./
/

-- 

Anne



From gsexton at mhsoftware.com  Fri Nov 17 16:27:47 2006
From: gsexton at mhsoftware.com (George Sexton)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 08:27:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] IncomingRunner reached maximum restart
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061116215539009322dd1024@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061116215539009322dd1024@msapiro>
Message-ID: <455DD4F3.30802@mhsoftware.com>

You are correct. This was SuSE Linux 10.1, which appears to be 2.1.7 
with a lot of patches.

I went ahead and installed 2.1.9 and it seemed to resolve the issue. I'm 
guessing the problem was RFC-2231 file names that spanned multiple 
lines. The outbound message had REALLY long file names.

Once I installed 2.1.9, the person was able to send the message.

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
>   
>> George Sexton wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> When the IncomingRunner dies, the new message appears in the qfiles/in 
>>> folder with an extension of .bak. I've tried deleting and re-creating 
>>> the list and it still dies. If I remove the .bak message and re-start 
>>> Mailman, then any queued messages are sent or discarded.
>>>       
>> I've filed a bug report and a patch in the sourceforge tracker.
>> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1598087&group_id=103&atid=100103
>>
>> It may not apply cleanly to the 2.1.7 version but the point is deleting 
>> lines starting from 'except...' and to the next 'try:' line.
>>
>> The errorneous messages should be shunted and you can check them in 
>> qfiles/shunt directory.
>>     
>
>
> Two things:
>
> If this is really 2.1.7, it is someones package with 2.1.9 backports,
> because .bak files in qfiles directories were only implemented in
> 2.1.9.
>
> I disagree with Tokio about how to fix this. I have attached a comment
> and an alternative patch to Tokio's bug report.
>
>   

-- 
George Sexton
MH Software, Inc.
Voice: +1 303 438 9585
URL:   http://www.mhsoftware.com/



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Nov 17 16:39:40 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 07:39:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <20061117104704.GA16353@antipasto.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
References: <20061117104704.GA16353@antipasto.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061117073500.066a6728@crimson-dragon.com>

Georg Sauthoff sent the message below at 02:47 11/17/2006:

>PS: Is it ok, if I submit a subscribtion request for this list to
>www.gmane.org (a nntp gateway and web-archive of mailinglists)?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

There was a rather drawn out, and sometimes heated discussion about 
this recently. IIRC, the outcome of that discussion was that the 
owner and maintainers of this list do not want the content of this 
list carried on the gmane service at this time.

I don't recall exactly the specific reasons for this but a search of 
this list's archives should turn it up in no time.


Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Nov 17 17:53:08 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 10:53:08 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <20061117104704.GA16353@antipasto.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
References: <20061117104704.GA16353@antipasto.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
Message-ID: <p06240502c18398bf99b4@[10.0.1.11]>

At 11:47 AM +0100 11/17/06, Georg Sauthoff wrote:

>  PS: Is it ok, if I submit a subscribtion request for this list to
>  www.gmane.org (a nntp gateway and web-archive of mailinglists)?

Uh, no -- please don't.  Please see the archives for the background 
on this issue.

>  PPS: Perhaps you could remove the direct link to this list from
>  http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/lists.html (in the left row) -
>  because the list requires subscription.

The list does require subscription, but the archives are public. 
IMO, people should be able to figure out for themselves that they 
will need to subscribe before posting.

But Barry is the one who has the final word on that subject.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 17 17:33:20 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 08:33:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] IncomingRunner reached maximum restart
In-Reply-To: <455CFEAB.9000509@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611170833200250834d974e@msapiro>

Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
>
>George Sexton wrote:
>
>> 
>> When the IncomingRunner dies, the new message appears in the qfiles/in 
>> folder with an extension of .bak. I've tried deleting and re-creating 
>> the list and it still dies. If I remove the .bak message and re-start 
>> Mailman, then any queued messages are sent or discarded.
>
>I've filed a bug report and a patch in the sourceforge tracker.
>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1598087&group_id=103&atid=100103
>
>It may not apply cleanly to the 2.1.7 version but the point is deleting 
>lines starting from 'except...' and to the next 'try:' line.
>
>The errorneous messages should be shunted and you can check them in 
>qfiles/shunt directory.


Two things:

If this is really 2.1.7, it is someones package with 2.1.9 backports,
because .bak files in qfiles directories were only implemented in
2.1.9.

I disagree with Tokio about how to fix this. I have attached a comment
and an alternative patch to Tokio's bug report.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From barry at python.org  Fri Nov 17 18:38:16 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 12:38:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c18398bf99b4@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <20061117104704.GA16353@antipasto.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
	<p06240502c18398bf99b4@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <7271E05E-269B-41FA-AC49-26BA938DBE00@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Nov 17, 2006, at 11:53 AM, Brad Knowles wrote:

>>  PPS: Perhaps you could remove the direct link to this list from
>>  http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/lists.html (in the left row) -
>>  because the list requires subscription.
>
> The list does require subscription, but the archives are public.
> IMO, people should be able to figure out for themselves that they
> will need to subscribe before posting.
>
> But Barry is the one who has the final word on that subject.

I agree with Brad.  I'd like to keep the link.  I /would/ still like  
to find a better way for non-subscribers to get help, but I think  
that's a larger issue than how this list is configured.

- -Barry

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From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 17 18:44:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:44:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too Many Lists?
In-Reply-To: <455CABFF.4080600@gse.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611170944320359b23c9e27@msapiro>

Todd Seeleman wrote:
>
>I find when I add 
>another list things get goofy.  I can get to a list's admin page fine 
>but when I click on another link, even a documentation or logout link, I 
>get a "web page not found" browser message.  At this point I cannot even 
>logout from the admin page.  When I remove the additional list operation 
>returns to normal.


Are you saying that lista, listb, etc. all work fine in the admin
interface and then you create listz and lista, listb, etc. all start
failing and you remove listz and the other lists start working again?

What happens to the actual links on the pages? Do they change?

What is in the apache logs for these failed attempts?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 17 19:01:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 10:01:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] IncomingRunner reached maximum restart
In-Reply-To: <455DD4F3.30802@mhsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611171001230656213dd7e7@msapiro>

George Sexton wrote:
>
>I went ahead and installed 2.1.9 and it seemed to resolve the issue. I'm 
>guessing the problem was RFC-2231 file names that spanned multiple 
>lines. The outbound message had REALLY long file names.
>
>Once I installed 2.1.9, the person was able to send the message.


Yes, 2.1.9 contains email 2.5.8 which fixed some issues with RFC 2231
headers.

However, while it appears less urgent in your case, I advise applying
my suggested patch from
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1598087&group_id=103&atid=100103>
to prevent some other unparseable message from causing the same
problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 17 19:42:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 10:42:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] scripts/owners not setting list domain
In-Reply-To: <20061117114408.GA243@pir.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602006111710424000468d7bd7d6@msapiro>

Peter Radcliffe wrote:
>
>If it shouldn't be necessary then I'm missing something since I can't
>get that chunk of code to output the right answer... admittedly my
>python is a bit rusty, though.


Try the following tests:

$ bin/withlist -i
No list name supplied.
Python info ...
(InteractiveConsole)
>>> from Mailman import Utils
>>> Utils.get_domain()
(should return 'www.pir.net')
>>> Utils.get_site_email()
(should return 'mailman at list.pir.net')
>>> from Mailman import mm_cfg
>>> mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOSTS
(should return {'www.pir.net': 'list.pir.net'}
>>>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pir at pir.net  Fri Nov 17 20:14:48 2006
From: pir at pir.net (Peter Radcliffe)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 19:14:48 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] scripts/owners not setting list domain
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006111710424000468d7bd7d6@msapiro>
References: <20061117114408.GA243@pir.net>
	<PC17602006111710424000468d7bd7d6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061117191448.GA6992@pir.net>

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> probably said:
> Try the following tests:

> >>> Utils.get_domain()
> (should return 'www.pir.net')

> >>> Utils.get_site_email()
> (should return 'mailman at list.pir.net')

> >>> mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOSTS
> (should return {'www.pir.net': 'list.pir.net'}

All return as they should. Even this returns correctly:

>>> from Mailman.Utils import get_domain
>>> mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOSTS.get(get_domain(), get_domain())
'list.pir.net'

Now if I back out my patch and retry sending mail to owners it works
just fine.

Makes me really puzzled. My best guess is I changed the mm_cfg.py file
from when I had the bad entries in, post-upgrade, and afterwards only
processes not in the mailman group that couldn't write to
Mailman/mm_cfg.pyc were run until I was done testing... but my MTA is
in mailman group and runs the wrapper as mailman/malman so that
doesn't make much sense.

Very odd. Thanks for the debugging help, though.

P.

-- 
pir



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 17 20:45:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 11:45:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] scripts/owners not setting list domain
In-Reply-To: <20061117191448.GA6992@pir.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611171145270796306a4ad7@msapiro>

Peter Radcliffe wrote:
>
>Makes me really puzzled.


Me too.


>My best guess is I changed the mm_cfg.py file
>from when I had the bad entries in, post-upgrade, and afterwards only
>processes not in the mailman group that couldn't write to
>Mailman/mm_cfg.pyc were run until I was done testing...


This wouldn't be the explaination. If the .py is newer than the .pyc,
the .py should always be used whether or not the .pyc can be updated.


>but my MTA is
>in mailman group and runs the wrapper as mailman/malman so that
>doesn't make much sense.
>
>Very odd. Thanks for the debugging help, though.


I'm glad it is working as it should.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jonese at uncw.edu  Fri Nov 17 20:01:53 2006
From: jonese at uncw.edu (Gurganious, Ellen)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 14:01:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] identifying dormant lists
Message-ID: <621A1D0B68C2594C80895862954FBB6B0605D6B3@UNCWMAILVS1.dcs.uncw.edu>

I'm curious on how to tell if lists are inactive or dormant ... I have
200+ lists and would like to get rid of lists that are no longer wanted
or utilized.  It is a rare user that asks to have something deleted ;)

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Ellen Gurganious

Computing Services

910.962.4227

jonese at uncw.edu

 



From anne.ramey at ncmail.net  Fri Nov 17 21:06:40 2006
From: anne.ramey at ncmail.net (Anne Ramey)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:06:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Default options for list
Message-ID: <455E1650.3040506@ncmail.net>

I was setting my system defaults for a new installation of mailman and 
seem to have run across a stumbling block.  I can set the 
generic_member_moderation to yes, but there doesn't seem to be a way in 
mm_cfg.py to set default member_moderation_action or default 
member_moderation_notice...or am I missing something?  I don't see any 
defaults for those in Defaults.py and when I try
DEFAULT_MEMBER_MODERATION_ACTION = 1
DEFAULT_MEMBER_MODERATION_NOTICE = "You do not have permission to post 
to this list, Please contact the list owner with any issues"
it seems to have no effect.  How do I set a system default for these?

-- 

Anne 



From alan at patriot.net  Fri Nov 17 21:10:58 2006
From: alan at patriot.net (Alan McConnell)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:10:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Difficulties with mailman 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <p06240504c17c30ead5d7@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <20061111204718.GA3453@patriot.net>
	<p06240504c17c30ead5d7@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <20061117201058.GA3709@patriot.net>

Hi, Brad,  I've been silent, uncourteously not thanking you
for your helpful message, because I wanted to act on
your suggestions before replying.

I have been in touch with the tech staff at PatriotNet(to 
whom I'm cc-ing this, and they have responded that they
are running Debian, with its well-known system of upgrades,
security fixes, etc.  I run Debian at home, so I know a 
little about this.

On Sat, Nov 11, 2006 at 08:08:39PM -0600, Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 3:47 PM -0500 11/11/06, Alan McConnell wrote:
> 
> > 1.  It often takes two or more repetitions to log on to the
> > administrative page.  I am always careful about typing my
> > password.
> 
> On first blush, this sounds a lot like the problem discussed in FAQ 
	I now can log in without repeating the process.

> > 2.  When I go to the Membership Management/mass subscription
> > page to subscribe a new member, this subscription often does
> > not "take".  I get a nice screen saying "X is successfully
	. . . .

> My guess is that this is related to issue #1 above, and if you can 
> get that problem fixed then this one seems that it would be likely to 
> also go away.
	I haven't added anyone recently.  I'll monitor this.

> > 3.  Worst of all: I want messages sent by our members to be
> > sent also to the member that sent them.  This is not at present
> > occurring.  I have _not_ checked the button in
	. . . 

> I'm not sure what to tell you.
> 
> You've checked the two things I know of to check, and yet you're 
> seeing precisely the kind of behaviour we would expect when these 
> features are used.
	I couldn't test this, but a PatriotNet sysadmin checked this;
	he sent a TEST message, and assures me that he got it back.

> One thing that would help is if your ISP was running the latest 
> version of Mailman -- we're now on version 2.1.9.  There have been a 
	Yes.  My question, addressed to you, or to any Debian
	experts here is:  using the Debian upgrade/update system,
	will the improvements of 2.1.9 by now have propagated to
	the PatriotNet system?  Debian puts a big focus on security.
	But, as I indicated above, it does seem that the system
	is better now.   (However the bottom LH corner of the admin
	screens still say version 2.1.5  !  ? )

Any comments from you or other experts would be much appreciated.
Again, thanks for your help!

Alan 

-- 
Alan McConnell :  http://patriot.net/users/alan
    "The intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."
    Impeachment proceedings should be started immediately.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 17 21:12:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 12:12:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman issue downloading full raw archive
In-Reply-To: <a5d091110611140835k6b3b98c6qf909326bab66e737@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611171212340265581afc6b@msapiro>

Jared Nyland wrote:
>
>Great Thanks for the help on this issue.  I have added that code to my
>private.py and now I am getting this error.
>
>
>Traceback:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 88, in run_main
>    sys.__stdout__.write(tempstdout.getvalue())
>MemoryError


You can try the following change to /usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver.

locate the code

        try:
            try:
                sys.stderr = logger
                sys.stdout = tempstdout
                main()
                sys.__stdout__.write(tempstdout.getvalue())
            finally:
                sys.stderr = sys.__stderr__
                sys.stdout = sys.__stdout__

and change it to

        try:
            try:
                sys.stderr = logger
                sys.stdout = tempstdout
                main()
                tempstdout.seek(0)
                line = tempstdout.readline()
                while line:
                    sys.__stdout__.write(line)
                    line = tempstdout.readline()
            finally:
                sys.stderr = sys.__stderr__
                sys.stdout = sys.__stdout__

This and the prior change are really only a stopgap. I now see the
issue is twofold. The output of the CGI is written to an in-memory
string and then ultimately copied to the real stdout. The base code
actually copies things in a way that at times there are two full
copies of the file in memory at once. These changes do the copy a line
at a time so that there is only one file copy in memory plus a line
which should avoid the problem for now, but eventually, the file will
grow large enough so that even one copy won't fit in memory, but
before that, perhaps the browsers receiving this file will choke.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 17 21:27:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 12:27:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] identifying dormant lists
In-Reply-To: <621A1D0B68C2594C80895862954FBB6B0605D6B3@UNCWMAILVS1.dcs.uncw.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611171227460609581afdcf@msapiro>

Gurganious, Ellen wrote:

>I'm curious on how to tell if lists are inactive or dormant ... I have
>200+ lists and would like to get rid of lists that are no longer wanted
>or utilized.  It is a rare user that asks to have something deleted ;)


If the lists have archives, look at them.

If there are no archives, you can use bin/withlist to look at the list
attribute last_post_time. e.g.

$ bin/withlist listname
Loading list listname (unlocked)
The variable `m' is the listname MailList instance
>>> import time
>>> time.ctime(m.last_post_time)
'Thu Sep 28 09:44:31 2006'
>>>               (control-D entered here)
Finalizing
$

Or create a script to print the list name and last_post_time for all
lists or some subset.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 17 21:44:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 12:44:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Default options for list
In-Reply-To: <455E1650.3040506@ncmail.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611171244310937ce8bcea8@msapiro>

Anne Ramey wrote:

>I was setting my system defaults for a new installation of mailman and 
>seem to have run across a stumbling block.  I can set the 
>generic_member_moderation to yes, but there doesn't seem to be a way in 
>mm_cfg.py to set default member_moderation_action or default 
>member_moderation_notice...or am I missing something?


You can set the default value for default_member_moderation for new
lists via

DEFAULT_DEFAULT_MEMBER_MODERATION

The default values for member_moderation_action and
member_moderation_notice are hard coded in Mailman/MailList.py to
'Hold' and empty respectively.


>I don't see any 
>defaults for those in Defaults.py and when I try
>DEFAULT_MEMBER_MODERATION_ACTION = 1
>DEFAULT_MEMBER_MODERATION_NOTICE = "You do not have permission to post 
>to this list, Please contact the list owner with any issues"
>it seems to have no effect.


You can't add any setting to mm_cfg.py that isn't in Defaults.py.
Mailman won't see it. If it did look for it and it wasn't defined in
Defaults.py, it would produce an error.


>How do I set a system default for these?


You could change Mailman/MailList.py to use
mm_cfg.DEFAULT_MEMBER_MODERATION_ACTION and
mm_cfg.DEFAULT_MEMBER_MODERATION_NOTICE instead of the current hard
coded 0 and '', and then you could put them in mm_cfg.py.

Or you could put the two lines

member_moderation_action = 1
member_moderation_notice = "You do not have permission to post to this
list, Please contact the list owner with any issues"

in a file and run bin/config_list with this file as input on the new
lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jnyland at gmail.com  Fri Nov 17 21:55:54 2006
From: jnyland at gmail.com (Jared Nyland)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 13:55:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman issue downloading full raw archive
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611171212340265581afc6b@msapiro>
References: <a5d091110611140835k6b3b98c6qf909326bab66e737@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200611171212340265581afc6b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <a5d091110611171255h38b1c810o209d3ad09d0c19e2@mail.gmail.com>

That did the trick for this issue

Thanks again
Jared

On 11/17/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Jared Nyland wrote:
> >
> >Great Thanks for the help on this issue.  I have added that code to my
> >private.py and now I am getting this error.
> >
> >
> >Traceback:
> >
> >Traceback (most recent call last):
> >  File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 88, in run_main
> >    sys.__stdout__.write(tempstdout.getvalue())
> >MemoryError
>
>
> You can try the following change to /usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver.
>
> locate the code
>
>         try:
>             try:
>                 sys.stderr = logger
>                 sys.stdout = tempstdout
>                 main()
>                 sys.__stdout__.write(tempstdout.getvalue())
>             finally:
>                 sys.stderr = sys.__stderr__
>                 sys.stdout = sys.__stdout__
>
> and change it to
>
>         try:
>             try:
>                 sys.stderr = logger
>                 sys.stdout = tempstdout
>                 main()
>                 tempstdout.seek(0)
>                 line = tempstdout.readline()
>                 while line:
>                     sys.__stdout__.write(line)
>                     line = tempstdout.readline()
>             finally:
>                 sys.stderr = sys.__stderr__
>                 sys.stdout = sys.__stdout__
>
> This and the prior change are really only a stopgap. I now see the
> issue is twofold. The output of the CGI is written to an in-memory
> string and then ultimately copied to the real stdout. The base code
> actually copies things in a way that at times there are two full
> copies of the file in memory at once. These changes do the copy a line
> at a time so that there is only one file copy in memory plus a line
> which should avoid the problem for now, but eventually, the file will
> grow large enough so that even one copy won't fit in memory, but
> before that, perhaps the browsers receiving this file will choke.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From robertj at linux4free.com  Fri Nov 17 22:07:50 2006
From: robertj at linux4free.com (Rob Jackson)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 14:07:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rate limit by domain/mx
Message-ID: <200611172107.kAHL7c8b006972@resources.rootsweb.com>

I know this isn't really a mailman issue, but I was just curious, those that
need rate limiting, what are you using?
 
I really need this set up, we have one list in paticular that has almost
1500 AOL subscribers, which is an announce only list, but the owner sends
out about 6 announcements at the same time flooding AOL with 9,000 messages,
and as fast as our MTA can handle.  Right now we are using sendmail 8.13.8.
 
Thanks
-Rob
 


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Nov 18 01:39:35 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 16:39:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman: how to display subject and date for
	archives when listingof archives?
In-Reply-To: <4547D554.80001@ncmir.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611171639350796ce8bce1f@msapiro>

Jana Nguyen wrote:
>
>How do I get the archive list to display the subject, author and date 
>when I go to list archives? For example:
>
>Archive 	View by: 	Downloadable version
>11 May 2006: 	  [ Next Meeting for Workshop] [Jana Nguyen] [11 May 
>2006]  	[ Text 1 KB ] 
><http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/bcc-internal/20060511.txt>
>
>	
>	
>
>
> The default that comes with mailman display the heading and we don't 
>want this (see below).
>
>
>You can get more information about this list 
><http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/bcc-internal>.
>
>Archive 	View by: 	Downloadable version
>11 May 2006: 	[ Thread ] 
><http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/bcc-internal/20060511/thread.html> 
>[ Subject ] 
><http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/bcc-internal/20060511/subject.html> 
>[ Author ] 
><http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/bcc-internal/20060511/author.html> 
>[ Date ] 
><http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/bcc-internal/20060511/date.html> 
>	[ Text 1 KB ] 
><http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/bcc-internal/20060511.txt>
>5 May 2006: 	[ Thread ] 
><http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/bcc-internal/20060505/thread.html> 
>[ Subject ] 
><http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/bcc-internal/20060505/subject.html> 
>[ Author ] 
><http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/bcc-internal/20060505/author.html> 
>[ Date ] 
><http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/bcc-internal/20060505/date.html> 
>	[ Text 438 bytes ] 
><http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/bcc-internal/20060505.txt>


This got lost in my inbox, partly because I don't understand the
question.

It appears from the examples above that you start new archive volumes
weekly. The first example is a particular weeks index page and the
second example is the overall table of contents. I don't know what you
are asking. Are you asking how to get the message date on a particular
weeks index page, or how to skip the overall table of contents and
have one big index page, or something else?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Nov 18 07:35:43 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 00:35:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Difficulties with mailman 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <20061117201058.GA3709@patriot.net>
References: <20061111204718.GA3453@patriot.net>
	<p06240504c17c30ead5d7@[10.0.1.11]> <20061117201058.GA3709@patriot.net>
Message-ID: <p06240500c184573c2e40@[10.0.1.11]>

At 3:10 PM -0500 11/17/06, Alan McConnell wrote:

>  Hi, Brad,  I've been silent, uncourteously not thanking you
>  for your helpful message, because I wanted to act on
>  your suggestions before replying.

Not a problem.  I appreciate your attention to detail.

>  I have been in touch with the tech staff at PatriotNet(to
>  whom I'm cc-ing this, and they have responded that they
>  are running Debian, with its well-known system of upgrades,
>  security fixes, etc.  I run Debian at home, so I know a
>  little about this.

While I don't consider myself a Linux person, I have some familiarity 
with Debian, and I understand the desire to have software fully 
checked out before upgrading as well as wanting to have the upgrade 
process be as bullet-proof as possible.

I was the Sr. Internet Mail Administrator for AOL for a couple of 
years, and I know what it's like to manage hundreds of systems with a 
small staff.  I only managed our small piece of the overall system, 
but I worked closely with the configuration management guys, so I 
understand what that's like.

>>  On first blush, this sounds a lot like the problem discussed in FAQ
>
>	I now can log in without repeating the process.

Cool.  That's good to hear.

>>  My guess is that this is related to issue #1 above, and if you can
>>  get that problem fixed then this one seems that it would be likely to
>>  also go away.
>
>	I haven't added anyone recently.  I'll monitor this.

If you have any further problems, please let us know.

>>  One thing that would help is if your ISP was running the latest
>>  version of Mailman -- we're now on version 2.1.9.  There have been a
>
>	Yes.  My question, addressed to you, or to any Debian
>	experts here is:  using the Debian upgrade/update system,
>	will the improvements of 2.1.9 by now have propagated to
>	the PatriotNet system?  Debian puts a big focus on security.
>	But, as I indicated above, it does seem that the system
>	is better now.   (However the bottom LH corner of the admin
>	screens still say version 2.1.5  !  ? )

I'm most certainly not a Debian expert, so in that respect I'm not 
sure I can answer this question.  I do know that there have been some 
issues in the past with getting the updates pushed out to some sites 
running Debian, especially if they're running older Debian releases 
for which new packages are not being built.

Moreover, Debian has made a number of changes to the code they ship 
out with our name on it, and we can't be responsible for them.

This process is getting better, and we have recently started having 
the Debian package maintainers contributing the relevant portions of 
their changes back to us, for future inclusion in our code base. 
There will be at least some convergence, at least in the future.


In the meanwhile, if you're still having issues, then I don't see 
many alternatives.  You can either choose to run the Debian package 
version of Mailman (in which case we're not going to be able to help 
you with certain classes of problems), or you can run the version 
installed directly from our source tarballs.

If you do choose to stick with the Debian package version, then your 
first level of support should be from the Debian community and 
especially the Debian package maintainer(s).  If you're having 
certain problems and they can prove that those problems are not a 
result of the code changes they've made, then we might be able to 
help.

But the only version of Mailman that we can officially support is the 
version we provide in our tarballs from our official sites.  We can 
make a best effort to try to support other versions of Mailman as 
modified by other organizations, but there's going to be a limit to 
what we can do in that regard.


I'm sorry I don't have a better answer for you.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From gsauthof at TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE  Sat Nov 18 13:48:28 2006
From: gsauthof at TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE (Georg Sauthoff)
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 13:48:28 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c18398bf99b4@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <20061117104704.GA16353@antipasto.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
	<p06240502c18398bf99b4@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <20061118124828.GB3811@australien.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>

On Fri, Nov 17, 2006 at 10:53:08AM -0600, Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 11:47 AM +0100 11/17/06, Georg Sauthoff wrote:
 
> >  PS: Is it ok, if I submit a subscribtion request for this list to
> >  www.gmane.org (a nntp gateway and web-archive of mailinglists)?
 
> Uh, no -- please don't.  Please see the archives for the background 
> on this issue.

If the admins don't like the gmane.org project/service I won't send a
request to them.

For the background you probably mean threads around:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-February/049376.html
(the take, take, take and leaching arguments are IMO a bit far fetched.
 And e.g. as a user of different ml I read via gmane I am not feeling as a part
 of the private gmane community! It is just an useful tool (to
 participate in some ml community, if you will).
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-September/053344.html


> >  PPS: Perhaps you could remove the direct link to this list from
> >  http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/lists.html (in the left row) -
> >  because the list requires subscription.

s/row/column/

> The list does require subscription, but the archives are public. 
> IMO, people should be able to figure out for themselves that they 
> will need to subscribe before posting.

I am only talking about the left link. It is about 'good practice':
- you have an open list: just throw the ml adress, -request adress/link
  and archive/search link at the page
- you have an closed list, which is absolutely allright: don't just
  write the ml adress at the page (without a clear statement that it is
  a closed list)

At the page http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/docs.html  the authors
invite users to just mail to mailman-users@ ('Email Us' - left side,
like every left side ) and only 'suggest' to subscribe ('We suggest you
subscribe to the list first' - right side, 2nd paragraph).

And sure you link to the searchable mail archive from the faq and
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users, but not from
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/ (which is the first
place if I look for the searchable archives - of course then the faq
or directly via google).

> But Barry is the one who has the final word on that subject.

Best regards
Georg Sauthoff
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From turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp  Sat Nov 18 14:04:43 2006
From: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 22:04:43 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Difficulties with mailman 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c184573c2e40@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <20061111204718.GA3453@patriot.net>
	<p06240504c17c30ead5d7@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061117201058.GA3709@patriot.net>
	<p06240500c184573c2e40@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <87r6w0hpn8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > >>  One thing that would help is if your ISP was running the latest
 > >>  version of Mailman -- we're now on version 2.1.9.  There have been a

 > At 3:10 PM -0500 11/17/06, Alan McConnell wrote:

 > >	Yes.  My question, addressed to you, or to any Debian
 > >	experts here is:  using the Debian upgrade/update system,
 > >	will the improvements of 2.1.9 by now have propagated to
 > >	the PatriotNet system?  Debian puts a big focus on security.
 > >	But, as I indicated above, it does seem that the system
 > >	is better now.   (However the bottom LH corner of the admin
 > >	screens still say version 2.1.5  !  ? )

That seems likely, as the current stable version of Debian ("sarge")
is distributed with 2.1.5.  However it does have patches in it
according to the Debian revision number (don't ask me what they are,
but you can go to the Debian FTP site, and get the patch file).
Debian practice being what it is, I would guess those are mostly
security related.  I'm sorry I can't tell you what's in "etch" (aka
"testing") and will be forthcoming in a few weeks; I run "sid" on my
personal system.

I can corroborate Brad's statement that Debian's package is not 100%
compatible with the product of an install from Mailman's tarballs and
following the install instructions to the letter, at least for one
recent (late summer 2006) version of the "sarge" distribution.  (Sarge
is running on a system that I only moderate the lists on.)



From alan at patriot.net  Sat Nov 18 14:20:49 2006
From: alan at patriot.net (Alan McConnell)
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 08:20:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Difficulties with mailman 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <87r6w0hpn8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <20061111204718.GA3453@patriot.net>
	<p06240504c17c30ead5d7@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061117201058.GA3709@patriot.net>
	<p06240500c184573c2e40@[10.0.1.11]>
	<87r6w0hpn8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20061118132049.GA2514@patriot.net>

First of all, thanks to Stephen and Brad for their illuminating
and informative replies!

On Sat, Nov 18, 2006 at 10:04:43PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Brad Knowles writes:
> 

	. . . . .

> That seems likely, as the current stable version of Debian ("sarge")
> is distributed with 2.1.5.  However it does have patches in it
> according to the Debian revision number (don't ask me what they are,
> but you can go to the Debian FTP site, and get the patch file).
> Debian practice being what it is, I would guess those are mostly
> security related.
	That's what I thought.

Now here is an "ignoramus" question, from one who knoweth not Python:
If mailman is "powered by Python", why is not an upgrade from mailman
2.1.5 to, say, 2.1.9, accomplished by simply grabbin the new python
scripts(hey, they are simply text files, right?) and dropping them
into place?  (of course the data -- the database of list members --
has to be backed up appropriately and restored, perhaps with new
fields added).    Yes, I know this is a dumb question<g>; but I hope
for an intelligent answer, letting me, and the Patriot Support staff,
know exactly what is involved in a real, non-Debian dependent upgrade.

I am a Debian user myself(sarge), on my home system, but I don't really
grok the upgrade/update system.  I agree that Debian does things its
way and mailman does things its way, and it is probably not appropriate
for mailman users to rely on Debian to keep totally abreast of
mailman development.

Again, thanks for the info; I hope that others will weigh in here.
I wish I could do more than just ask questions<sigh>.

Alan

-- 
Alan McConnell :  http://patriot.net/users/alan
    There are many good Impeachment sites; one of the best is:
           www.waifllc.org


From barry at python.org  Sat Nov 18 14:57:23 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 08:57:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <20061118124828.GB3811@australien.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
References: <20061117104704.GA16353@antipasto.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
	<p06240502c18398bf99b4@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061118124828.GB3811@australien.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
Message-ID: <2CA0AE10-FE27-46B9-8B74-DAB8B2BC18A4@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Nov 18, 2006, at 7:48 AM, Georg Sauthoff wrote:

> At the page http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/docs.html  the authors
> invite users to just mail to mailman-users@ ('Email Us' - left side,
> like every left side ) and only 'suggest' to subscribe ('We suggest  
> you
> subscribe to the list first' - right side, 2nd paragraph).

I agree that this is not the most user friendly arrangement, and that  
we should have a way for non-subscribers to "get help".  That "get  
help" address should be advertised as the "email us" link.

Of course, that address will be a spam magnet, which is why the list  
admins (justifiably) insist that if that help address is mailman- 
users, the latter must be subscription protected.

One alternative would be to do something like what the Python  
community does.  They have a "help" address that anybody can email,  
but for which subscriptions are controlled.  The volunteer helpers  
understand they'll get spammed but still they accept this because it  
benefits novice Python users.  Subscriptions are controlled so that  
the list doesn't become just a general discussion list (competing  
against python-list) and so that the participants are known Python  
experts.

Would this work for us?  The Python community is much larger than the  
Mailman community, so has a larger pool of volunteers to draw from.   
A competing concern is that our Mailman experts like Mark, Brad, and  
everyone else here on mailman-users wouldn't get burned out and just  
leave mailman-help (or worse, leave mailman-users too!).

So I don't know what the right answer is, and I must defer to the  
folks on this list.  If you have suggestions, please discuss!  For  
me, this isn't just limited to a desire to help Mailman users; it  
seems to me an acknowledgment that Mailman is missing a fundamental  
communication pattern.

- -Barry

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From glen.page at thet.net  Sat Nov 18 14:47:09 2006
From: glen.page at thet.net (Glen Page)
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 08:47:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] suppression of recipient list?
Message-ID: <D42E72EB-FBF8-4057-AE97-53AED7C4F898@thet.net>

I have read the FAQs and searched both the FAQs and the archives and  
can't find an answer so I am posting it here to see if anyone else  
has seen this problem and/or knows a solution.

I have Mailman ver. 2.1.9 up and running successfully. All the lists  
seem to be working fine with one "small" but potentially "big" flaw.
On all of my lists, when a message is sent to the list, the message  
received by the list members has the entire list of members in the  
header of the email. This text is quoted from one such header:

X-Thet.Net-Mailscanner-From: 	privatelist-bounces at lists.thet.net
	X-Thet.Net-Mailscanner-To: 	user1 at thet.net, user2 at thet.net,  
user3 at thet.net, user4 at thet.net, user5 at thet.net, user6 at thet.net,  
user7 at thet.net

Note -- I edited the list name and replace the real subscriber names  
with user1, user2 etc. as this is supposed to be private list and we  
are trying to avoid some spam.

I have done everything that I can think of and don't know where else  
to look. Is this something Mailman is doing or is it Mailscanner?
How do I fix it?

The other complaint that I had from one subscriber was that the  
messages from the list are in a "slightly odd format that confused my  
mail reader.  It was a multipart MIME message where the main part,  
the message itself, was treated as an enclosure."
Is this something I can do something about?

Thanks in advance for helping someone new to Mailman!

Glen Page
Technology Systems Administrator
ThetNet

Back up my hard drive?  How do I put it in reverse?  ~Author Unknown




From msapiro at value.net  Sat Nov 18 18:06:42 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 09:06:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] suppression of recipient list?
In-Reply-To: <D42E72EB-FBF8-4057-AE97-53AED7C4F898@thet.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611180906420937ae6ab233@msapiro>

Glen Page wrote:
>
>I have Mailman ver. 2.1.9 up and running successfully. All the lists  
>seem to be working fine with one "small" but potentially "big" flaw.
>On all of my lists, when a message is sent to the list, the message  
>received by the list members has the entire list of members in the  
>header of the email. This text is quoted from one such header:
>
>X-Thet.Net-Mailscanner-From: 	privatelist-bounces at lists.thet.net
>	X-Thet.Net-Mailscanner-To: 	user1 at thet.net, user2 at thet.net,  
>user3 at thet.net, user4 at thet.net, user5 at thet.net, user6 at thet.net,  
>user7 at thet.net
>
>I have done everything that I can think of and don't know where else  
>to look. Is this something Mailman is doing or is it Mailscanner?
>How do I fix it?


Your outgoing MTA (Thet.Net-Mailscanner?) is creating this header based
on the envelope recipients of the message.

You may or may not be able to fix this in the MTA.

I think you can avoid this issue by making mailman send a separate
message to each recipient. You can do this in one of the following
ways:

1) In mm_cfg.py set

   SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 1

   This is not recommended because it has all the performance
implications of 2) and none of the advantages.

2) In mm_cfg.py set

   VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1

3) In mm_cfg.py set

   OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes

   and then on the list admin Non-digest options page set personalize
to Yes. This will only affect individual messages, not digests.


>The other complaint that I had from one subscriber was that the  
>messages from the list are in a "slightly odd format that confused my  
>mail reader.  It was a multipart MIME message where the main part,  
>the message itself, was treated as an enclosure."
>Is this something I can do something about?


This may be because you have specified a msg_header in non-digest
options. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp>
which applies to the msg_header as well as the msg_footer. If you
don't think you have a msg_header, make sure the text box is empty,
not just blank.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Nov 18 19:45:26 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 10:45:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Difficulties with mailman 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <20061118132049.GA2514@patriot.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611181045260859b12dc8d5@msapiro>

Alan McConnell wrote:
>
>Now here is an "ignoramus" question, from one who knoweth not Python:
>If mailman is "powered by Python", why is not an upgrade from mailman
>2.1.5 to, say, 2.1.9, accomplished by simply grabbin the new python
>scripts(hey, they are simply text files, right?) and dropping them
>into place?


This is pretty much what the 'configure - make install' process does
when you upgrade from source. configure is necessary to set certain
installation specific things.


>(of course the data -- the database of list members --
>has to be backed up appropriately and restored, perhaps with new
>fields added).


Mailman knows how to convert/update older list data when it has been
upgraded. You probably do want to back everything up before doing the
'make install' just in case something goes wrong, but it isn't a
necessary part of the upgrade process.

See
<http://mailman.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/mailman/branches/Release_2_1-maint/mailman/UPGRADING?revision=7462>.
The initial, generic section covers what you need to do to upgrade
from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9. The more specific sections all have to do with
upgrading from pre 2.1.5.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From paa at usps.org  Sat Nov 18 20:01:42 2006
From: paa at usps.org (Phil usps)
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 14:01:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unadverti*** lists
Message-ID: <015801c70b48$5d0c8180$6401a8c0@phildesktop>

I understand how to make a list not show up on the mailing list overview
page by setting the privacy option-- Advertise this list to NO. However, I
do not understand why this causes the list to no longer show up on the Admin
Links page. As Site administrator, I want to easily see all the lists.

How can I make them all show on up the Admin Links page? If that is not
possible, how can I see a listing of all the lists? I cannot find an answer
in the FAQs.

Using ver 2.1.9

Phil

Philip Arcuni
Chairman, Information Technology Committee
United States Power Squadrons



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Nov 18 21:34:25 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 12:34:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unadverti*** lists
In-Reply-To: <015801c70b48$5d0c8180$6401a8c0@phildesktop>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611181234250000ec136e79@msapiro>

Phil usps wrote:

>I understand how to make a list not show up on the mailing list overview
>page by setting the privacy option-- Advertise this list to NO. However, I
>do not understand why this causes the list to no longer show up on the Admin
>Links page. As Site administrator, I want to easily see all the lists.


Since anyone (and any spambot) can visit the admin overview page, it is
not effective to hide a list from the listinfo overview and continue
to expose it on the admin overview.


>How can I make them all show on up the Admin Links page? If that is not
>possible, how can I see a listing of all the lists? I cannot find an answer
>in the FAQs.


If you are willing to patch Mailman to do this, it is fairly simple to
modify Mailman/Cgi/admin.py to skip the 'advertised' test.

There is also the command line tool bin/list_lists.

Also, you may be interested in the thread beginning at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-October/046952.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From bgmahesh at gmail.com  Sun Nov 19 07:00:18 2006
From: bgmahesh at gmail.com (BG Mahesh)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 11:30:18 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List admin controling member list thru email
Message-ID: <5227ac5c0611182200v5cc4917dnc18b8cad2fc631d1@mail.gmail.com>

hi

We are using Mailman 2.1.9. I want the admin of the list to be able to do
the following by sending emails and not visiting the admin section (web)

- Add/delete member(s)
- Delete "all" members of the list
- Add a bunch of users to the list

This is not for spamming. This is for a particular club which has about
1000+ members. We want to automate the member management via email.

Any help is appreciated

-- 
--
B.G. Mahesh
http://www.greynium.com/
http://www.oneindia.in/
http://www.click.in/ - Free Indian Classifieds


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Nov 19 09:44:00 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 02:44:00 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <20061118124828.GB3811@australien.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
References: <20061117104704.GA16353@antipasto.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
	<p06240502c18398bf99b4@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061118124828.GB3811@australien.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
Message-ID: <p06240500c185c7f08329@[10.0.1.11]>

At 1:48 PM +0100 11/18/06, Georg Sauthoff wrote:

>  (the take, take, take and leaching arguments are IMO a bit far fetched.

Basically, it comes down to a matter of trust.  The Gmane folks say 
that they operate by certain rules, and then we have multiple 
instances where they fail to operate by those rules.  If we can't 
trust them to operate by their own rules that they claim they always 
use, then how can we trust them with anything else?


I've spoken to Lars, and I'm convinced that he's a good guy.  In 
fact, I've had less problems with Lars than with a lot of people who 
use Gmane and insist that we allow our mailing lists to be served 
there.

But just because I believe that Lars is a good guy is not a 
sufficient justification for me to trust that the service will 
actually be operated according to the rules that they themselves have 
said that they are supposed to follow.

>  I am only talking about the left link. It is about 'good practice':

Who has defined this "good practice"?  I've been specializing in 
administering e-mail systems for well over a decade (including some 
of the largest e-mail systems on the planet), and I've helped set up 
the hardware and software for what were some of the largest mailing 
lists in existence, at least at the time.

I am not personally aware of anyone having defined any "best 
practice" that covers this situation, but if you can show me 
something that you have encountered, we can take a look at that and 
see how it might be applied.

>  At the page http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/docs.html  the authors
>  invite users to just mail to mailman-users@ ('Email Us' - left side,
>  like every left side ) and only 'suggest' to subscribe ('We suggest you
>  subscribe to the list first' - right side, 2nd paragraph).

Then it sounds like we should clarify the wording used around that 
link, which is something that Barry will have to do.

>  And sure you link to the searchable mail archive from the faq and
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users, but not from
>  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/ (which is the first
>  place if I look for the searchable archives - of course then the faq
>  or directly via google).

I'll take a look at that and see if I can update the description.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Nov 19 09:52:50 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 02:52:50 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Difficulties with mailman 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <20061118132049.GA2514@patriot.net>
References: <20061111204718.GA3453@patriot.net>
	<p06240504c17c30ead5d7@[10.0.1.11]> <20061117201058.GA3709@patriot.net>
	<p06240500c184573c2e40@[10.0.1.11]>
	<87r6w0hpn8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20061118132049.GA2514@patriot.net>
Message-ID: <p06240501c185ca00feff@[10.0.1.11]>

At 8:20 AM -0500 11/18/06, Alan McConnell wrote:

>  Now here is an "ignoramus" question, from one who knoweth not Python:
>  If mailman is "powered by Python", why is not an upgrade from mailman
>  2.1.5 to, say, 2.1.9, accomplished by simply grabbin the new python
>  scripts(hey, they are simply text files, right?) and dropping them
>  into place?  (of course the data -- the database of list members --
>  has to be backed up appropriately and restored, perhaps with new
>  fields added).    Yes, I know this is a dumb question<g>; but I hope
>  for an intelligent answer, letting me, and the Patriot Support staff,
>  know exactly what is involved in a real, non-Debian dependent upgrade.

The Debian guys have moved stuff around.  You can't just drop the 
2.1.9 code onto a Debian machine and expect it to work properly -- it 
won't be able to find any of the files from the Debian-hacked version 
of 2.1.5 that was previously installed.

When you take the current tarball and do a "make install" on that, it 
will put all the various files in the Mailman-standard locations, 
which are most definitely not the same as the Debian-standard 
locations for those kinds of things.  You could copy the respective 
list configuration and list archive files from the Debian-standard 
location to the Mailman-standard location, and if you do it right 
then you should be able to get your system upgraded from 2.1.5 to 
2.1.9.

But this isn't just a simple drop-in replacement.


What really needs to happen is the Debian guys need to get 2.1.9 and 
"Debian-ize" that codebase, and then ship that out to all their 
customers.  Problem is, the Debian project is well-known for being 
multiple years behind the current state-of-whatever, so $DEITY only 
knows when you might ever see this kind of update -- Maybe about the 
same time we're shipping Mailman3.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Nov 19 10:00:48 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 03:00:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <2CA0AE10-FE27-46B9-8B74-DAB8B2BC18A4@python.org>
References: <20061117104704.GA16353@antipasto.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
	<p06240502c18398bf99b4@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061118124828.GB3811@australien.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
	<2CA0AE10-FE27-46B9-8B74-DAB8B2BC18A4@python.org>
Message-ID: <p06240502c185cbf4741b@[10.0.1.11]>

At 8:57 AM -0500 11/18/06, Barry Warsaw wrote:

>  Would this work for us?  The Python community is much larger than the
>  Mailman community, so has a larger pool of volunteers to draw from.
>  A competing concern is that our Mailman experts like Mark, Brad, and
>  everyone else here on mailman-users wouldn't get burned out and just
>  leave mailman-help (or worse, leave mailman-users too!).

This might very well work.  But speaking only for myself, I would not 
be interested in being on the mailman-help list.

I'm perfectly happy to use the Mailman standard site admin tools to 
create a new list for this function, but other people are going to 
have to be the listowner and/or moderator, as well as the 
knowledgeable people on the list who would be responding back to 
these "help" requests.

If this mechanism works, I think it would help take some of the load 
off mailman-users, since you'd probably get fewer people sending 
e-mail if the list isn't linked directly from that particular place 
on the Mailman web space at list.org & gnu.org.


Beyond that, I'm not sure I have anything useful to add.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Nov 19 10:36:29 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 03:36:29 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c185c7f08329@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <20061117104704.GA16353@antipasto.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
	<p06240502c18398bf99b4@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061118124828.GB3811@australien.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
	<p06240500c185c7f08329@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <p06240503c185cfb85701@[10.0.1.11]>

At 2:44 AM -0600 11/19/06, Brad Knowles wrote:

>>   And sure you link to the searchable mail archive from the faq and
>>   http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users, but not from
>>   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/ (which is the first
>>   place if I look for the searchable archives - of course then the faq
>>   or directly via google).
>
>  I'll take a look at that and see if I can update the description.

I took another look at this page, it looks like we should be able to 
update the links by editing the templates from which the HTML files 
are built.  I've done that, and I'm in the process of completely 
re-generating the entire archive for mailman-users going back to the 
beginning of the list in 1998.  This should do what we need, although 
it will take a while to complete.


Oh, and all links into the archive will now be broken -- whatever 
article number you thought you were linking to is now going to point 
to a different article than the one you had originally found.  This 
is a side-effect of the way that Mailman generates the archives, and 
happens every time you do a complete regeneration.

This means we'll probably have to go back into the FAQ Wizard and 
clean up a lot of those entries, so that the links point to the new 
article number for the desired article in question.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From msapiro at value.net  Sun Nov 19 18:41:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 09:41:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <p06240503c185cfb85701@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611190941280546aa8fb09e@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>I took another look at this page, it looks like we should be able to 
>update the links by editing the templates from which the HTML files 
>are built.  I've done that, and I'm in the process of completely 
>re-generating the entire archive for mailman-users going back to the 
>beginning of the list in 1998.  This should do what we need, although 
>it will take a while to complete.


If you haven't started rebuilding the archives yet, I suggest you don't
do it. Not only will it invalidate all the links in the FAQ which can
be changed with some effort, it will also invalidate links in archived
messages.

Anyway, I don't think it's necessary to rebuild the old monthly index
pages even if you updated that template.

I think it would suffice to update the archtocnombox.html template
which is used to build the top level page at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/> and which is rebuilt
with every archived message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Nov 19 19:01:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 10:01:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List admin controling member list thru email
In-Reply-To: <5227ac5c0611182200v5cc4917dnc18b8cad2fc631d1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611191001500687374c74c1@msapiro>

BG Mahesh wrote:
>
>We are using Mailman 2.1.9. I want the admin of the list to be able to do
>the following by sending emails and not visiting the admin section (web)
>
>- Add/delete member(s)
>- Delete "all" members of the list
>- Add a bunch of users to the list


This is something that would have to be implemented either by modifying
the existing email subscribe and unsubscribe command processing or by
implementing entirely new email commands.

I'm not aware that anyone has already done anything like this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From alan at patriot.net  Sun Nov 19 19:20:13 2006
From: alan at patriot.net (Alan McConnell)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 13:20:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List admin controling member list thru email
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611191001500687374c74c1@msapiro>
References: <5227ac5c0611182200v5cc4917dnc18b8cad2fc631d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200611191001500687374c74c1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061119182013.GA3445@patriot.net>

On Sun, Nov 19, 2006 at 10:01:50AM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> BG Mahesh wrote:
> >
> >We are using Mailman 2.1.9. I want the admin of the list to be able to do
> >the following by sending emails and not visiting the admin section (web)
> >
> >- Add/delete member(s)
> >- Delete "all" members of the list
> >- Add a bunch of users to the list
> 
> 
> This is something that would have to be implemented either by modifying
> the existing email subscribe and unsubscribe command processing or by
> implementing entirely new email commands.
	Let me add my humble voice to endorse Mr Mahesh's ideas.  I'd 
	like to be able to approve/disapprove member joining, and 
	unknown people posting, as well.

I hope there is a wish list that mailman developers will keep in mind,
as they further improve/enhance.  I would hope the goal would be
that admins, as well as users, could do everything by E-mail as well
as by web interface.

The advantages of this would be great for people with dialup access, like
me.  Also great for people in developing countries, with slow links, for
whom E-mail works better than e.g. the loading of a web page.

Best wishes,

Alan

-- 
Alan McConnell :  http://patriot.net/users/alan
    "The intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."
    Impeachment proceedings should be started immediately.

From msapiro at value.net  Sun Nov 19 19:57:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 10:57:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List admin controling member list thru email
In-Reply-To: <20061119182013.GA3445@patriot.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611191057120109756b15f9@msapiro>

Alan McConnell wrote:
>	Let me add my humble voice to endorse Mr Mahesh's ideas.  I'd 
>	like to be able to approve/disapprove member joining, and 
>	unknown people posting, as well.


You can currently approve/discard held posts by email. If
admin_immed_notify is Yes, the notification is a MIME message with
three parts; a text/plain part containing the notice, a message/rfc822
part containing the original message and a message/rfc822 part
containing something like

------------------------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: confirm 99dfd3ff954d1b6b6a9af15004d2deaa457f5128
Sender: listname-request at example.com
From: listname-request at example.com

If you reply to this message, keeping the Subject: header intact,
Mailman will discard the held message.  Do this if the message is
spam.  If you reply to this message and include an Approved: header
with the list password in it, the message will be approved for posting
to the list.  The Approved: header can also appear in the first line
of the body of the reply.
-------------------------------------------------

If you reply to that message part or send any message to the
listname-request at example.com address with the 'confirm xxxx' subject,
the original message will be accepted or discarded depending on the
presence or absence of the Approved: header/line in the reply.

This is not the case currently for subscription approvals, but I will
look into implementing that.


>I hope there is a wish list that mailman developers will keep in mind,
>as they further improve/enhance.  I would hope the goal would be
>that admins, as well as users, could do everything by E-mail as well
>as by web interface.


The current 'wish list' is at
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+2.2>. There is also a list
at <http://www.list.org/todo.html> that contains "Provide an email
interface to all administrative commands".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From alan at patriot.net  Sun Nov 19 20:59:55 2006
From: alan at patriot.net (Alan McConnell)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 14:59:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with delivery -- & gmail
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061114205747.07dde8a8@crimson-dragon.com>
References: <9C19F879-596A-44AD-9801-2399D6CF9A85@gmail.com>
	<87velh2tt4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20061114205747.07dde8a8@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <20061119195955.GA3611@patriot.net>

On Tue, Nov 14, 2006 at 09:00:49PM -0800, Dragon wrote:
>
	.  .  .  .  

> >your INBOX.  I see a fair number of complaints on one of the mailing
> >lists I subscribe to that has a lot of gmail users on it about gmail's
> >general disregard for the existence of mailing lists and the whole
> >concept of threading.

	.  .  .  .  .

> This is squarely on gmail. Mailman is blameless on this one.

We must all recall that google's motto is: "Don't be evil"<g>.
So perhaps if others on gmail(which is one of my E-mail addresses)
would go to the Gmail Help Center and post something similar to
what I've posted (see below) it might help.

Best wishes to all,

Alan

(start)------------------------------------
I would like to have mail that I send to an E-list
(aka list-serve, E-mail list) from my gmail account,
accepted when it is sent back to me; it should appear
in my Inbox.  (I get postings from other list members,
so the list SW is OK).

It must have taken effort for Gmail to send these messages
to /dev/null.  I would like that effort to be undone.

Many thanks in advance,

Alan McConnell

                                 --------------------------(finish)

-- 
Alan McConnell :  http://patriot.net/users/alan
    "The intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."
    Impeachment proceedings should be started immediately.

From jam at jamux.com  Sun Nov 19 21:12:24 2006
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 15:12:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Difficulties with mailman 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c185ca00feff@[10.0.1.11]> (Brad Knowles's message of
	"Sun, 19 Nov 2006 02:52:50 -0600")
References: <20061111204718.GA3453@patriot.net>
	<p06240504c17c30ead5d7@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061117201058.GA3709@patriot.net>
	<p06240500c184573c2e40@[10.0.1.11]>
	<87r6w0hpn8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20061118132049.GA2514@patriot.net>
	<p06240501c185ca00feff@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <87k61r2o2f.fsf@athene.jamux.com>

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From barry at python.org  Sun Nov 19 23:00:26 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 17:00:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c185cbf4741b@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <20061117104704.GA16353@antipasto.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
	<p06240502c18398bf99b4@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061118124828.GB3811@australien.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
	<2CA0AE10-FE27-46B9-8B74-DAB8B2BC18A4@python.org>
	<p06240502c185cbf4741b@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <8507FD8F-3701-4427-A99F-C66A39BBAB2C@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Nov 19, 2006, at 4:00 AM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> This might very well work.  But speaking only for myself, I would  
> not be interested in being on the mailman-help list.

I don't blame you ;).  If anybody else is interested in seeing a  
mailman-help list get created, please setp forward.  Otherwise, of  
course, it won't happen.

- -Barry



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From barry at python.org  Sun Nov 19 23:02:11 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 17:02:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611190941280546aa8fb09e@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200611190941280546aa8fb09e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <804B8606-3FD7-4BBF-B4F0-4303026CAAF7@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Nov 19, 2006, at 12:41 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> If you haven't started rebuilding the archives yet, I suggest you  
> don't
> do it. Not only will it invalidate all the links in the FAQ which can
> be changed with some effort, it will also invalidate links in archived
> messages.

What he said!  It sucks that bin/arch is not reproducible, but that's  
something I'd like to address in a future release.  The trick will be  
to see if we can provide a reliable mapping from the old urls to  
whatever new url scheme we choose.

- -Barry

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From turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp  Mon Nov 20 04:11:28 2006
From: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:11:28 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <804B8606-3FD7-4BBF-B4F0-4303026CAAF7@python.org>
References: <PC1760200611190941280546aa8fb09e@msapiro>
	<804B8606-3FD7-4BBF-B4F0-4303026CAAF7@python.org>
Message-ID: <87ac2mhkwv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Barry Warsaw writes:

 > What he said!  It sucks that bin/arch is not reproducible, but that's  
 > something I'd like to address in a future release.  The trick will be  
 > to see if we can provide a reliable mapping from the old urls to  
 > whatever new url scheme we choose.

Just use the message's message id, munged into URI-compatibility if
necessary.  That will make it almost trivially searchable and easy to
verify that you've probably got the right message.  When rebuilding an
archive you just grovel through the old archive and build a table mapping
old URLs to new.

Note that because of irreproducibility if you don't have the old
archive you're stuck anyway.

Specifically, on inserting into the archive

1.  check for an existing directory with that name.  If it exists,
somebody has a problem generating unique message IDs, and they can
suffer for it with a layer of indirection.  Put the message in there
with the name being an index number (order of insertion is easy, or
you could MD5 or SHA1 the message body for a more unique and
reproducible identity---NB, you can truncate the hash for a manageable
number of bytes and slightly less double-collision resistance).
Update index.html in that directory.  Go to DONE.

2.  check for an existing file with that name.  If it exists,
"somebody has a problem ...".  mv the file to a temporary locationn,
create the directory with that name, mv the existing file in there,
add the new one (see #1 for naming options).  Create index.html.  Go
to DONE.

3.  create the file.

DONE:  You're done!

Note that because the collision directory and the file have the same
name, third parties can easily construct the appropriate URL and get
something quite useful in the case of a collision.

This scheme also has the advantage that you can predict the URL having
only a copy of the message.  So you could put the full URL of the
current message in the List-Archive header (if that doesn't contravene
the RFC), or you could add an X-List-Archive-Current-Post-URL header.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Nov 20 05:47:05 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 22:47:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611190941280546aa8fb09e@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200611190941280546aa8fb09e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240500c186e35f2119@[10.0.1.11]>

At 9:41 AM -0800 11/19/06, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  If you haven't started rebuilding the archives yet, I suggest you don't
>  do it. Not only will it invalidate all the links in the FAQ which can
>  be changed with some effort, it will also invalidate links in archived
>  messages.

I had already started doing it as of the time I posted that message. 
The damage is done.

>  Anyway, I don't think it's necessary to rebuild the old monthly index
>  pages even if you updated that template.

I updated the template, but it didn't seem to make a difference.  So, 
I wiped out all the old archives, and yet still didn't get the 
updated template.

Blech.

>  I think it would suffice to update the archtocnombox.html template
>  which is used to build the top level page at
>  <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/> and which is rebuilt
>  with every archived message.

I already tried that.  Didn't seem to work.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Nov 20 05:50:36 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 22:50:36 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <804B8606-3FD7-4BBF-B4F0-4303026CAAF7@python.org>
References: <PC1760200611190941280546aa8fb09e@msapiro>
	<804B8606-3FD7-4BBF-B4F0-4303026CAAF7@python.org>
Message-ID: <p06240501c186e42d5175@[10.0.1.11]>

At 5:02 PM -0500 11/19/06, Barry Warsaw wrote:

>  What he said!

Sorry, guy.  I wish there was a way to un-ring that bell.

>                 It sucks that bin/arch is not reproducible, but
>  that's something I'd like to address in a future release.  The trick
>  will be to see if we can provide a reliable mapping from the old urls
>  to whatever new url scheme we choose.

I think we could put up with "one last change", to a new format that 
was pretty much guaranteed to be self-consistent no matter how many 
times you wipe and rebuild the archives.

Note that this was one of the first bugs I ever filed for Mailman, 
years ago.  It hasn't been addressed since then, and I've long since 
given up hope that it would ever be addressed any time soon.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Nov 20 06:00:29 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 23:00:29 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <87ac2mhkwv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC1760200611190941280546aa8fb09e@msapiro>
	<804B8606-3FD7-4BBF-B4F0-4303026CAAF7@python.org>
	<87ac2mhkwv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240502c186e5148793@[10.0.1.11]>

At 12:11 PM +0900 11/20/06, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>  Just use the message's message id, munged into URI-compatibility if
>  necessary.  That will make it almost trivially searchable and easy to
>  verify that you've probably got the right message.  When rebuilding an
>  archive you just grovel through the old archive and build a table mapping
>  old URLs to new.

Doesn't work.  Too many MUAs out there use very non-specific strings 
for their message-ids, and you'd get too many collisions.

At a minimum, I figured that you'd need to take certain standard 
headers which are almost always present (Date, Subject, From, To, Cc, 
Message-ID, etc...), generate a cryptographic hash (MD-5, SHA-1, 
SHA-256, or whatever else you feel sufficiently comfortable with), 
and that should be a good starting point.  But it would still be just 
a starting point.  You'd still have to have a collision 
detection/avoidance algorithm.

IMO, you don't want to do a crypto hash over the body of the entire 
message, because that would take longer to calculate, and would be 
less likely to survive transmission, translation, future changes to 
the message body filtering code, etc....  You want to choose things 
that will be relatively stable and likely to survive most any kind of 
transformation that might be applied, regardless of whatever else 
might happen to the message.

>  This scheme also has the advantage that you can predict the URL having
>  only a copy of the message.  So you could put the full URL of the
>  current message in the List-Archive header (if that doesn't contravene
>  the RFC), or you could add an X-List-Archive-Current-Post-URL header.

Yup, that would be an additional useful feature.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 20 06:36:24 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 00:36:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c186e42d5175@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <PC1760200611190941280546aa8fb09e@msapiro>
	<804B8606-3FD7-4BBF-B4F0-4303026CAAF7@python.org>
	<p06240501c186e42d5175@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <1164000984.26252.4.camel@localhost>

On Sun, 2006-11-19 at 22:50 -0600, Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 5:02 PM -0500 11/19/06, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> 
> >  What he said!
> 
> Sorry, guy.  I wish there was a way to un-ring that bell.
> 
> >                 It sucks that bin/arch is not reproducible, but
> >  that's something I'd like to address in a future release.  The trick
> >  will be to see if we can provide a reliable mapping from the old urls
> >  to whatever new url scheme we choose.
> 
> I think we could put up with "one last change", to a new format that 
> was pretty much guaranteed to be self-consistent no matter how many 
> times you wipe and rebuild the archives.

How about having MM add a header to each email (List-Archive-UID) that
is generated as MM processes each email, and added to the headers
written to the mbox file.  Then have bin/arch use that ID to (re)create
each html file.

-Jim P.



From kremels at kreme.com  Mon Nov 20 07:13:30 2006
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 23:13:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c186e5148793@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <PC1760200611190941280546aa8fb09e@msapiro>
	<804B8606-3FD7-4BBF-B4F0-4303026CAAF7@python.org>
	<87ac2mhkwv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240502c186e5148793@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <6091FAB5-71CA-40BA-BDDA-83F42945E345@kreme.com>

On 19-Nov-2006, at 22:00, Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 12:11 PM +0900 11/20/06, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>>  Just use the message's message id, munged into URI-compatibility if
>>  necessary.
>
> Doesn't work.  Too many MUAs out there use very non-specific strings
> for their message-ids, and you'd get too many collisions.
>
> At a minimum, I figured that you'd need to take certain standard
> headers which are almost always present (Date, Subject, From, To, Cc,
> Message-ID, etc...), generate a cryptographic hash (MD-5, SHA-1,
> SHA-256, or whatever else you feel sufficiently comfortable with),
> and that should be a good starting point.  But it would still be just
> a starting point.  You'd still have to have a collision
> detection/avoidance algorithm.

Well, you can have mailman generate a "X-Mailman-ID:" for outgoing  
messages before it archives them or sends them to the list.  That  
way, you can guarantee that the ID is unique (use a message-id like  
format with SomeHash at listname.domain.tld).  Since that ID is part of  
the message, it gives a perfect 1:1 relationship between the  
individual message and the link to the archive of the message.  In  
fact, it can even BE a link to the archive of the message (but  
please, make that a toggle-able feature).

> IMO, you don't want to do a crypto hash over the body of the entire
> message, because that would take longer to calculate, and would be
> less likely to survive transmission, translation, future changes to
> the message body filtering code,

It doesn't matter if the body changes AFTER the ID is generated.  But  
agreed, doing it over the whole message would take too long. How  
about over the first 4096 bytes of the message+headers?

> etc....  You want to choose things
>>  This scheme also has the advantage that you can predict the URL  
>> having
>>  only a copy of the message.  So you could put the full URL of the
>>  current message in the List-Archive header (if that doesn't  
>> contravene
>>  the RFC), or you could add an X-List-Archive-Current-Post-URL  
>> header.
>
> Yup, that would be an additional useful feature.

Seems to make more sense to generate the code whilst the message is  
'owned' by mailman and then there's nothing to worry about it being  
munged in transit or on the other end.

-- 
"I don't care how much melanin you have in your skin  nor who you  
sleep with, you can't have my cheese."



From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Nov 20 08:05:01 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:05:01 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c186e5148793@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <PC1760200611190941280546aa8fb09e@msapiro>
	<804B8606-3FD7-4BBF-B4F0-4303026CAAF7@python.org>
	<87ac2mhkwv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240502c186e5148793@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <878xi6y4wy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > [Using Message-ID] doesn't work.  Too many MUAs out there use very
 > non-specific strings for their message-ids, and you'd get too many
 > collisions.

Hm.  I disagree, but I guess the only way to convince you is with a
patch that proves itself in practice.

Don't hold your breath, but it does matter to me, right now, so it
might get done, by me, in a reasonable amount of time.<wink>

Steve


From scott at fyrenice.com  Mon Nov 20 08:49:00 2006
From: scott at fyrenice.com (Dr. Scott S. Jones)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 00:49:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical
Message-ID: <20061120074900.GA17645@xmission.com>

I need to find out what others on the list use to produce graphical based
newsletters. I have been mailing out lots of text only based letters to my
lists and I get minimal response...what do some of you use to create
graphical newsletters to mail out? 

Scott


From daevid at daevid.com  Mon Nov 20 08:00:15 2006
From: daevid at daevid.com (Daevid Vincent)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 23:00:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it safe to upgrade mailman 2.1.5 to 2.1.9
Message-ID: <004b01c70c71$9a0a9110$450a0a0a@locutus>

I have the Gentoo ebuild for mailman installed and it's been working great.
Is there anything major worth updating this version for, and is it a
painless upgrade or am I risking breakage? What about 2.1.10 when that's
available?

daevid log # esearch mailman

*  net-mail/mailman [ Masked ]
      Latest version available: 2.1.9_rc1
      Latest version installed: 2.1.5-r4
      Size of downloaded files: 23,002 kB
      Homepage:    http://www.list.org/
      Description: A python-based mailing list server with an extensive web
interface
      License:     GPL-2


From barry at python.org  Mon Nov 20 14:18:42 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 08:18:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c186e42d5175@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <PC1760200611190941280546aa8fb09e@msapiro>
	<804B8606-3FD7-4BBF-B4F0-4303026CAAF7@python.org>
	<p06240501c186e42d5175@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <5700F024-CB72-4202-B727-65560853F71A@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Nov 19, 2006, at 11:50 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 5:02 PM -0500 11/19/06, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
>>  What he said!
>
> Sorry, guy.  I wish there was a way to un-ring that bell.

Can someone check to see just how badly broken our urls are?  I'd  
start with the FAQ.  Since many bugs that broke reproducibility have  
been fixed for a while, maybe we got lucky, at least with newer  
archive messages.

If not, perhaps we should consider asking XS4ALL to restore the  
archive from backup?

- -Barry

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From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Nov 20 19:23:59 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:23:59 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical
In-Reply-To: <20061120074900.GA17645@xmission.com>
References: <20061120074900.GA17645@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611201023r7d348fa7gca612f3dc5184acd@mail.gmail.com>

Most of us don't, for a couple of reasons:
Mailman's HTML support is fairly dumb, which means that the vast
variation in MUAs make it difficult to craft HTML (and message
structures that contain such) that will be presented in a regular way
to the users.

Mailman's primary purpose is as a discussion-oriented mailing list
manager, not for distributing newsletters and/or announcements (though
it is easily converted to this purpose).

Lastly, for a lot of folk (or, at least, myself), HTML is a
four-letter word when it comes to email.

On 11/20/06, Dr. Scott S. Jones <scott at fyrenice.com> wrote:
> I need to find out what others on the list use to produce graphical based
> newsletters. I have been mailing out lots of text only based letters to my
> lists and I get minimal response...what do some of you use to create
> graphical newsletters to mail out?
>
> Scott
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From tyler at beloit.edu  Mon Nov 20 19:58:44 2006
From: tyler at beloit.edu (Tim Tyler)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:58:44 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating list defaults and filters?
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061120124909.020e6d40@beloit.edu>

   Mailman users,
  I have two questions.  We are running Mailman 2.1.5 on Redhat.

1. Is there a way when creating lists to have it automatically set 
certain fields with certain defaults such as Archives off, mail size 
limit 40k, etc.; instead of having to manually set them?

2. Is there a way to set a filter for a list such that all messages 
are automatically rejected or discarded if they don't have a 
particular subject header string such as [announce] in it?  I see 
that one can accept [announce] in the filters, but how does one wild 
card reject all the rest?  Also, I presume that order matters, correct?



Tim Tyler
Network Engineer - Beloit College
tyler at beloit.edu 



From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Nov 20 21:12:57 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:12:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00611201023r7d348fa7gca612f3dc5184acd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20061120074900.GA17645@xmission.com>
	<6fbe3da00611201023r7d348fa7gca612f3dc5184acd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240502c187bc62276f@[10.0.1.11]>

At 12:23 PM -0600 11/20/06, Patrick Bogen wrote:

>  Most of us don't, for a couple of reasons:
>  Mailman's HTML support is fairly dumb, which means that the vast
>  variation in MUAs make it difficult to craft HTML (and message
>  structures that contain such) that will be presented in a regular way
>  to the users.

Mailman will transmit whatever you send, and you can configure it to 
avoid munging your HTML.  The problem is that most MUAs have limited 
ability to properly interpret HTML, and most programs for creating 
HTML output have wildly different ideas of how that content should be 
interpreted by the other end.

In this kind of environment, there's relatively little that Mailman can do.

>  Mailman's primary purpose is as a discussion-oriented mailing list
>  manager, not for distributing newsletters and/or announcements (though
>  it is easily converted to this purpose).

True.

>  Lastly, for a lot of folk (or, at least, myself), HTML is a
>  four-letter word when it comes to email.

Yeah, HTML e-mail is pretty evil.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Nov 20 23:17:55 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:17:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c187bc62276f@10.0.1.11>
References: <20061120074900.GA17645@xmission.com>
	<6fbe3da00611201023r7d348fa7gca612f3dc5184acd@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240502c187bc62276f@10.0.1.11>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611201417w11b106aem11ac23992d3ad728@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/20/06, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
> At 12:23 PM -0600 11/20/06, Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
> >  Most of us don't, for a couple of reasons:
> >  Mailman's HTML support is fairly dumb, which means that the vast
> >  variation in MUAs make it difficult to craft HTML (and message
> >  structures that contain such) that will be presented in a regular way
> >  to the users.
>
> Mailman will transmit whatever you send, and you can configure it to
> avoid munging your HTML.  The problem is that most MUAs have limited
> ability to properly interpret HTML, and most programs for creating
> HTML output have wildly different ideas of how that content should be
> interpreted by the other end.
>
> In this kind of environment, there's relatively little that Mailman can do.
>

No judgement meant on Mailman for this. I have at least a cursory
understanding of the issues. By 'dumb' I was referring to the
amount/nature of processing that Mailman does on HTML, absolutely not
the intelligence of the good folk that implemented such processing. :)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From daevid at daevid.com  Mon Nov 20 23:24:42 2006
From: daevid at daevid.com (Daevid Vincent)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:24:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical
In-Reply-To: <20061120074900.GA17645@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <20061120222253.0E9C01E4007@bag.python.org>

I don't know why everyone is all down on graphical HTML email. The way I see
it, I would much prefer HTML if it's a newsletter or something. It's
cleaner. Easier to read with formatting. Links aren't these huge URLs. And
adds a certain amount of professionalism (assuming it looks good and isn't
crappy circa 1988 looking).

The only time HTML email is "evil" is when it's from an unknown source that
is most likely a phisher, or it is coded so horribly that it's painful to
read.

If someone has joined a list, then that list should be trusted to some
degree, along with the members of said list.

I think this "plain-text" only mentality is antiquated and fostered from
die-hard zealots who still use, nigh, prefer the command line over GUI tools
which take most of the tedious guess-work and fat-fingering out of
administration of a server.

...but that's just my opinion.

D?VID  


From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Mon Nov 20 23:30:38 2006
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:30:38 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical
In-Reply-To: <20061120222253.0E9C01E4007@bag.python.org>
References: <20061120222253.0E9C01E4007@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0611201626460.22619@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006, Daevid Vincent wrote:

> I don't know why everyone is all down on graphical HTML email.

> I think this "plain-text" only mentality is antiquated and fostered from
> die-hard zealots who still use, nigh, prefer the command line over GUI tools
> which take most of the tedious guess-work and fat-fingering out of
> administration of a server.

In my case, it comes from valuing speed and size over bells and whistles.
HTML tends to be large and in every mail reader I've used, much slower to
render than plain text. When I'm working through a backlog of 100
messages, I value speed.

And from what I can see, the larger the message is and the slower it is to
render, the less likely it is to be something I want to read since those
are more often than not marketing messages trying to sell me something.

-- Larry Stone
   lstone19 at stonejongleux.com

From kremels at kreme.com  Tue Nov 21 00:52:06 2006
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:52:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical
In-Reply-To: <20061120222253.0E9C01E4007@bag.python.org>
References: <20061120222253.0E9C01E4007@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <3EEEEDDF-2E5B-4E1D-92C9-6A361B85CF91@kreme.com>

On 20-Nov-2006, at 15:24, Daevid Vincent wrote:
> I don't know why everyone is all down on graphical HTML email.

Because everyone thinks they are a grapahic designer and most people  
have the design sense of a 4yo ADHD kid.  Not to mention turning a  
10K newsletter into a 500K mess of HTML that is, frankly, unlikely to  
come through unscathed anyway.

> I think this "plain-text" only mentality is antiquated and fostered  
> from
> die-hard zealots who still use, nigh, prefer the command line over  
> GUI tools
> which take most of the tedious guess-work and fat-fingering out of
> administration of a server.

Oh, there's certainly some of that. But that's not all of it.  For  
example, I don't like having my mail window be the width of my  
screen, and the pane I read mail in is only about 600px wide.  Most  
HTML-ized email assumes that I will be giving it at the very least  
800px, and more like 1200px.  This makes most HTML email immediately  
unreadable for me.

I get some HTML email (AMC channel, BBCAmerica) but I usually just  
read the plain text alts because there's nothing in the HTML I care  
about. If I do care, I can view the html easily (and quite well,  
Apple's Mail.app does HTML better than any other MUA I've ever seen).

The other big issue is I can zip through 50 emails in less than 50  
seconds if it's all text.  With HTML, the rendering alone will slow  
me down considerably (I often do this to scan a thread I think I am  
not likely to be interested in... just to see if anything pops up).

-- 
You know, in a world in which Bush and Blair can be nominated for the  
Nobel Peace Prize, "for having dared to take the necessary decision  
to launch a war on Iraq without having the support of the UN" I find  
myself agreeing with Tom Lehrer: satire is dead. - Neil Gaiman



From daevid at daevid.com  Tue Nov 21 00:54:31 2006
From: daevid at daevid.com (Daevid Vincent)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:54:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0611201626460.22619@albion.stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <20061120235244.3EBA31E4014@bag.python.org>

> And from what I can see, the larger the message is and the 
> slower it is to
> render, the less likely it is to be something I want to read 
> since those
> are more often than not marketing messages trying to sell me 
> something.

Agreed. However the statements were about users who have purposely
subscribed to a list. And should that list send in HTML or plaintext. My
point being that in that case, HTML is fine because the reader WANTS to read
what you've sent them, and (at least in my opinion) prefers to have a nice
page layout than just courier font text.

Spammers. Phishers. Etc. those are another story entirely.

This is why God invented procmailrc files... Sort your mail at the server
into folders and you're winning half the battle.

D.Vin


From daevid at daevid.com  Tue Nov 21 00:57:15 2006
From: daevid at daevid.com (Daevid Vincent)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:57:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical
In-Reply-To: <20061120235244.3EBA31E4014@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <20061120235529.2EF471E4007@bag.python.org>

Furthermore, it's just basic common sense, that if you you're going to send
your email in HTML, you had better be considerate of bandwidth, size,
formatting, etc. Otherwise, you are risking loosing your audience. But the
same could be said if the person typed in all capitals, and swore like a
sailor using plain-text.

D?VID  


From jared.griffith at farheap.com  Tue Nov 21 00:54:37 2006
From: jared.griffith at farheap.com (Jared Griffith)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:54:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Process Hanging
Message-ID: <4562403D.8050505@farheap.com>

Hello everyone,
	I seem to be having an odd issue with Mailman.  For some reason the 
daemon just stops running and will not send out any mail to the various 
lists that it is managing.  There are no messages on the server, or 
messages generated by the mailman daemon, so I am a bit stumped to say 
the least.
Here are the particulars on the system:
Dual AMD Opteron server
FreeBSD 6.0
Cyrus-Imap - 2.3.7
Postfix 2.4.20060930,3
python-2.4.3
py24-gdbm-2.4.3
mailman-2.1.9

Everything was working fine for about 6 months, then all of a sudden it 
stopped working.  Now I have to go into the server everyday to stop and 
start the daemon, at which point it will send out mail posted to the lists.
Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.


-- 
- Thank you,
- Farheap Solutions, Inc.
- Jared B. Griffith
- Lead Systems Administrator
- California IT Department
- Email - jared.griffith at farheap.com
- Phone - 949.417.1500 ext. 266
- Cell Phone - 949.910.6542

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Nov 21 01:18:06 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:18:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical
In-Reply-To: <20061120235529.2EF471E4007@bag.python.org>
References: <20061120235244.3EBA31E4014@bag.python.org>
	<20061120235529.2EF471E4007@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061120160413.0671f570@crimson-dragon.com>

Daevid Vincent sent the message below at 15:57 11/20/2006:
>Furthermore, it's just basic common sense, that if you you're going to send
>your email in HTML, you had better be considerate of bandwidth, size,
>formatting, etc. Otherwise, you are risking loosing your audience. But the
>same could be said if the person typed in all capitals, and swore like a
>sailor using plain-text.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

But that is a large part of the problem. People are NOT mindful of 
these things and they also commonly lack that sense we all wish was common.

Let me say that positing this argument in this group is pretty much 
swimming upstream against a raging torrent of opposing opinion, at 
least that is how I see it.

HTML results in a lot of overhead, this is especially so with a 
number of MUAs that make bad markup (and more of them perpetrate this 
crime than don't). It is not unusual for a message that could be sent 
in 3 or 4 kB to bloat to 10 or even 100 times that size when 
presented in HTML. All of that markup and the images and what have 
you take bandwidth to send to all of those list members. A 
well-behaved MUA should also be sending HTML mail in a 
multipart-alternative MIME message with a text-html and a plain-text 
version of the message. All of that also adds even more overhead and 
eats more bandwidth.

It also depends much on the audience, what is important to them? The 
presentation or the message? A technical list such as this one rarely 
has need for any sort of graphical presentation. A list like this is 
plain text because it is the message that is important and all of 
that fancy formatting gets in the way.

Mailman is not intended to be a marketing device. People use it that 
way but it is not and never was intended to be a vehicle for 
advertising and customer contact.

I will also state that command-line is extremely useful and powerful. 
It's also extremely parsimonious about resources. An awful lot has to 
happen and run correctly for any GUI to light up to the point where 
it is useable to do anything. Next time your windowing system refuses 
to start, you may be grateful to have the command line.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp  Tue Nov 21 03:22:51 2006
From: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:22:51 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical
In-Reply-To: <20061120222253.0E9C01E4007@bag.python.org>
References: <20061120074900.GA17645@xmission.com>
	<20061120222253.0E9C01E4007@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <87r6vxwnb8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Daevid Vincent writes:

 > I don't know why everyone is all down on graphical HTML email.

Developers and administrators (ie, the great majority of the people
who answer questions on a list like this one) use email to communicate
ideas.  When you want to motivate somebody, a picture may be worth a
thousand words (NB, it requires 10,000 times the bandwidth!)  But how
do you express a Mailman error message in pictures?

You're right, those of us who say "HTML email is evil" probably are
projecting when we generalize (but be very careful about applying that
estimate to someone like Brad Knowles, who is a very professional
admin and likely subject to such biases but who also has worked in the
pioneer in the mass-service end of the industry == AOL---he knows
about the difficulties of serving a varied audience).

 > The way I see it, I would much prefer HTML if it's a newsletter or
 > something. It's cleaner. Easier to read with formatting.

Newsletter, sure.  As somebody else mentioned, in an announce-only
list, the publisher can control the format, and if users complain, he
can tweak the carefully designed style until everybody is satisfied.
For that purpose, "email" is a distribution channel; the communication
medium is something different, a "newsletter".  To my mind, that's no
different from having a plain-text email with a link to the newsletter
on a web page---except that it's far more convenient for the user
since he doesn't need to click on a link or wait for the page to
download.  (I would often consider using PDF instead, though.)

People who denounce "HTML email", however, are thinking of email as a
communication medium characterized by heterogeneity of both sender and
receiver, and high interactivity.  HTML simply isn't designed to adapt
to that, and many common generators produce terrible code.

 > Links aren't these huge URLs.

That's a deficiency in the MUAs, not in text/plain email.  My MUA has
abbreviated URLs for a decade.  It turns a bare URL like
"http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/Tools/Attitude/" into "[Attitude]"
and highlights it, and it's clickable.  (It also recognizes the anchor
element in otherwise plain text, and completely suppresses the tags and
href in that case.)  Pass the mouse over it and the full URL appears
as a tooltip.  This is not rocket science; AFAIK any reasonable recent
MUA can do that.  Certainly the GUI MUAs available for Linux do.
Similarly, many other conventions of conversational email can be
attractively formatted: quoted text, smilies ;-), /emphasis/, etc.
This doesn't require HTML at all.

Sure, if your monopolization strategy requires integrating the browser
into the OS, as Microsoft's did, then it makes sense to use the
integrated browser to render HTML in email.  Similarly if your
business is trying to turn your browser into a desktop, as with
Netscape.  It's not surprising that they were happy to force formatted
email into HTML instead of trying to deduce format from unstandardized
conventions.

 > And adds a certain amount of professionalism (assuming it looks
 > good and isn't crappy circa 1988 looking).

Brad's point is that you can't make that assumption, unless you own
the reader's MUA (and probably her monitor as well).  Works inside a
company---maybe.  I know that most of my university's pages look like
something the cat dragged in when using any browser other than very
recent IE on Windows at approximately 1024x768 resolution.  That
includes all popular browsers on the Mac (Firefox, Safari, Netscape,
and IE-for-Mac).  And they spend millions of dollars on those pages.

 > The only time HTML email is "evil" is when it's from an unknown
 > source that is most likely a phisher, or it is coded so horribly
 > that it's painful to read.

No, it's "evil" as a rule because it an accessory before the fact to
worms, phishers, and rank amateurs lacking in subtlety and taste.  It
doesn't make ordinary email look any better than plain text does in an
MUA that has an attractive "style sheet", and for users with special
needs (small screen, large font, or text-to-speech) it can be very
detrimental.

 > I think this "plain-text" only mentality is antiquated and fostered
 > from die-hard zealots who still use, nigh, prefer the command line
 > over GUI tools which take most of the tedious guess-work and
 > fat-fingering out of administration of a server.

Prefer, yes.  Zealotry, no, not for the majority of GUI naysayers.
All too often I've discovered that a GUI tool doesn't do what its
documentation led someone to think it should, or that the desired
configuration simply can't be achieved via the documented interface.
It's true that by reducing your field of choice the GUI takes
guesswork out of administration, but if something does go wrong, that
saved guesswork is often reimposed 100-fold.


From collinslc64 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 21 03:40:03 2006
From: collinslc64 at yahoo.com (CHARLOTTE COLLINS)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 18:40:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 33, Issue 44
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1261.1164066930.32030.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <20061121024003.52066.qmail@web82504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I would like to know where auditions are posted. please, help! 

mailman-users-request at python.org wrote:  Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to
mailman-users at python.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
mailman-users-request at python.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
mailman-users-owner at python.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Users digest..."
Today's Topics:

1. Re: Approve subscription requests via mail (Barry Warsaw)
2. Re: text-only versus graphical (Patrick Bogen)
3. creating list defaults and filters? (Tim Tyler)
4. Re: text-only versus graphical (Brad Knowles)
5. Re: text-only versus graphical (Patrick Bogen)
6. Re: text-only versus graphical (Daevid Vincent)
7. Re: text-only versus graphical (Larry Stone)
8. Re: text-only versus graphical (LuKreme)
9. Re: text-only versus graphical (Daevid Vincent)
10. Re: text-only versus graphical (Daevid Vincent)
From: Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org>
CC: Georg Sauthoff <gsauthof at TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>,
mailman-users at python.org
To: Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 08:18:42 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Nov 19, 2006, at 11:50 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 5:02 PM -0500 11/19/06, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
>> What he said!
>
> Sorry, guy. I wish there was a way to un-ring that bell.

Can someone check to see just how badly broken our urls are? I'd 
start with the FAQ. Since many bugs that broke reproducibility have 
been fixed for a while, maybe we got lucky, at least with newer 
archive messages.

If not, perhaps we should consider asking XS4ALL to restore the 
archive from backup?

- -Barry

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From: "Patrick Bogen" <pdbogen at gmail.com>
CC: mailman-users at python.org
To: "Dr. Scott S. Jones" <scott at fyrenice.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:23:59 -0600
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical

Most of us don't, for a couple of reasons:
Mailman's HTML support is fairly dumb, which means that the vast
variation in MUAs make it difficult to craft HTML (and message
structures that contain such) that will be presented in a regular way
to the users.

Mailman's primary purpose is as a discussion-oriented mailing list
manager, not for distributing newsletters and/or announcements (though
it is easily converted to this purpose).

Lastly, for a lot of folk (or, at least, myself), HTML is a
four-letter word when it comes to email.

On 11/20/06, Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote:
> I need to find out what others on the list use to produce graphical based
> newsletters. I have been mailing out lots of text only based letters to my
> lists and I get minimal response...what do some of you use to create
> graphical newsletters to mail out?
>
> Scott
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
>


-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From: Tim Tyler <tyler at beloit.edu>
To: mailman-users at python.org
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:58:44 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating list defaults and filters?

Mailman users,
I have two questions. We are running Mailman 2.1.5 on Redhat.

1. Is there a way when creating lists to have it automatically set 
certain fields with certain defaults such as Archives off, mail size 
limit 40k, etc.; instead of having to manually set them?

2. Is there a way to set a filter for a list such that all messages 
are automatically rejected or discarded if they don't have a 
particular subject header string such as [announce] in it? I see 
that one can accept [announce] in the filters, but how does one wild 
card reject all the rest? Also, I presume that order matters, correct?



Tim Tyler
Network Engineer - Beloit College
tyler at beloit.edu 



From: Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
CC: mailman-users at python.org
To: "Patrick Bogen" <pdbogen at gmail.com>,
"Dr. Scott S. Jones" <scott at fyrenice.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:12:57 -0600
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical

At 12:23 PM -0600 11/20/06, Patrick Bogen wrote:

> Most of us don't, for a couple of reasons:
> Mailman's HTML support is fairly dumb, which means that the vast
> variation in MUAs make it difficult to craft HTML (and message
> structures that contain such) that will be presented in a regular way
> to the users.

Mailman will transmit whatever you send, and you can configure it to 
avoid munging your HTML. The problem is that most MUAs have limited 
ability to properly interpret HTML, and most programs for creating 
HTML output have wildly different ideas of how that content should be 
interpreted by the other end.

In this kind of environment, there's relatively little that Mailman can do.

> Mailman's primary purpose is as a discussion-oriented mailing list
> manager, not for distributing newsletters and/or announcements (though
> it is easily converted to this purpose).

True.

> Lastly, for a lot of folk (or, at least, myself), HTML is a
> four-letter word when it comes to email.

Yeah, HTML e-mail is pretty evil.

-- 
Brad Knowles, 


Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006. If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From: "Patrick Bogen" <pdbogen at gmail.com>
CC: mailman-users at python.org
To: "Brad Knowles" <brad at shub-internet.org>
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:17:55 -0600
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical

On 11/20/06, Brad Knowles 
wrote:
> At 12:23 PM -0600 11/20/06, Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
> > Most of us don't, for a couple of reasons:
> > Mailman's HTML support is fairly dumb, which means that the vast
> > variation in MUAs make it difficult to craft HTML (and message
> > structures that contain such) that will be presented in a regular way
> > to the users.
>
> Mailman will transmit whatever you send, and you can configure it to
> avoid munging your HTML. The problem is that most MUAs have limited
> ability to properly interpret HTML, and most programs for creating
> HTML output have wildly different ideas of how that content should be
> interpreted by the other end.
>
> In this kind of environment, there's relatively little that Mailman can do.
>

No judgement meant on Mailman for this. I have at least a cursory
understanding of the issues. By 'dumb' I was referring to the
amount/nature of processing that Mailman does on HTML, absolutely not
the intelligence of the good folk that implemented such processing. :)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From: "Daevid Vincent" <daevid at daevid.com>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:24:42 -0800
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical

I don't know why everyone is all down on graphical HTML email. The way I see
it, I would much prefer HTML if it's a newsletter or something. It's
cleaner. Easier to read with formatting. Links aren't these huge URLs. And
adds a certain amount of professionalism (assuming it looks good and isn't
crappy circa 1988 looking).

The only time HTML email is "evil" is when it's from an unknown source that
is most likely a phisher, or it is coded so horribly that it's painful to
read.

If someone has joined a list, then that list should be trusted to some
degree, along with the members of said list.

I think this "plain-text" only mentality is antiquated and fostered from
die-hard zealots who still use, nigh, prefer the command line over GUI tools
which take most of the tedious guess-work and fat-fingering out of
administration of a server.

...but that's just my opinion.

D?VID 


From: Larry Stone <lstone19 at stonejongleux.com>
To: mailman-users at python.org
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:30:38 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006, Daevid Vincent wrote:

> I don't know why everyone is all down on graphical HTML email.

> I think this "plain-text" only mentality is antiquated and fostered from
> die-hard zealots who still use, nigh, prefer the command line over GUI tools
> which take most of the tedious guess-work and fat-fingering out of
> administration of a server.

In my case, it comes from valuing speed and size over bells and whistles.
HTML tends to be large and in every mail reader I've used, much slower to
render than plain text. When I'm working through a backlog of 100
messages, I value speed.

And from what I can see, the larger the message is and the slower it is to
render, the less likely it is to be something I want to read since those
are more often than not marketing messages trying to sell me something.

-- Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com

From: LuKreme <kremels at kreme.com>
To: mailman-users at python.org
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:52:06 -0700
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical

On 20-Nov-2006, at 15:24, Daevid Vincent wrote:
> I don't know why everyone is all down on graphical HTML email.

Because everyone thinks they are a grapahic designer and most people 
have the design sense of a 4yo ADHD kid. Not to mention turning a 
10K newsletter into a 500K mess of HTML that is, frankly, unlikely to 
come through unscathed anyway.

> I think this "plain-text" only mentality is antiquated and fostered 
> from
> die-hard zealots who still use, nigh, prefer the command line over 
> GUI tools
> which take most of the tedious guess-work and fat-fingering out of
> administration of a server.

Oh, there's certainly some of that. But that's not all of it. For 
example, I don't like having my mail window be the width of my 
screen, and the pane I read mail in is only about 600px wide. Most 
HTML-ized email assumes that I will be giving it at the very least 
800px, and more like 1200px. This makes most HTML email immediately 
unreadable for me.

I get some HTML email (AMC channel, BBCAmerica) but I usually just 
read the plain text alts because there's nothing in the HTML I care 
about. If I do care, I can view the html easily (and quite well, 
Apple's Mail.app does HTML better than any other MUA I've ever seen).

The other big issue is I can zip through 50 emails in less than 50 
seconds if it's all text. With HTML, the rendering alone will slow 
me down considerably (I often do this to scan a thread I think I am 
not likely to be interested in... just to see if anything pops up).

-- 
You know, in a world in which Bush and Blair can be nominated for the 
Nobel Peace Prize, "for having dared to take the necessary decision 
to launch a war on Iraq without having the support of the UN" I find 
myself agreeing with Tom Lehrer: satire is dead. - Neil Gaiman



From: "Daevid Vincent" <daevid at daevid.com>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:54:31 -0800
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical

> And from what I can see, the larger the message is and the 
> slower it is to
> render, the less likely it is to be something I want to read 
> since those
> are more often than not marketing messages trying to sell me 
> something.

Agreed. However the statements were about users who have purposely
subscribed to a list. And should that list send in HTML or plaintext. My
point being that in that case, HTML is fine because the reader WANTS to read
what you've sent them, and (at least in my opinion) prefers to have a nice
page layout than just courier font text.

Spammers. Phishers. Etc. those are another story entirely.

This is why God invented procmailrc files... Sort your mail at the server
into folders and you're winning half the battle.

D.Vin


From: "Daevid Vincent" <daevid at daevid.com>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:57:15 -0800
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical

Furthermore, it's just basic common sense, that if you you're going to send
your email in HTML, you had better be considerate of bandwidth, size,
formatting, etc. Otherwise, you are risking loosing your audience. But the
same could be said if the person typed in all capitals, and swore like a
sailor using plain-text.

D?VID 


------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

From petern at africaonline.co.zw  Tue Nov 21 07:08:12 2006
From: petern at africaonline.co.zw (Peter Nyamukusa)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 08:08:12 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients
Message-ID: <200611210808.12906.petern@africaonline.co.zw>

Hi,

How can I increase the number of recipients on my mailing list I am getting 
the following meaaseg below:

Cause: Too many recipients to the message
-- 
Peter Nyamukusa


From petern at africaonline.co.zw  Tue Nov 21 07:44:38 2006
From: petern at africaonline.co.zw (Peter Nyamukusa)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 08:44:38 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients
In-Reply-To: <200611210808.12906.petern@africaonline.co.zw>
References: <200611210808.12906.petern@africaonline.co.zw>
Message-ID: <200611210844.38927.petern@africaonline.co.zw>

On Tuesday 21 November 2006 08:08, Peter Nyamukusa wrote:
> Hi,
>
> How can I increase the number of recipients on my mailing list I am getting
> the following meaaseg below:
>
> Cause: Too many recipients to the message

sorry guys for such a shallow question I now have the answer

From ifetch at du.edu  Tue Nov 21 10:35:33 2006
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 02:35:33 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c1786dddc189@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <20061108134601.U40154@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
	<p06240500c1786dddc189@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <20061121022823.A69595@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

Hi Brad,
On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 3:55 PM -0700 11/8/06, Ivan Fetch wrote:
>
>>     I'm wondering whether anyone has experience they'd like to share going
>>  directly from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9 -- anything to be aware of in terms of the
>>  upgrade process or user experiences (meaning list administrators and
>>  members)?
>
> I recently did the upgrade from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9 for the NTP Public Services 
> Project at ntp.isc.org.  It really was this simple:
>
> 	1.  Stop the web server (apache)
> 	2.  Stop postfix
> 	3.  Stop Mailman
> 	4.  As root, do "cd /usr/ports/mail/mailman/; make install"
> 	5.  Start Mailman
> 	6.  Start postfix
> 	7.  Start the web server
> 	8.  Check everything to see that it all appears to be working
> 		correctly.
>
> Of course, I actually used the FreeBSD port system to install Mailman as 
> opposed to installing from source, but the concept is the same. And this is 
> no guarantee that things will be this clean for you.

    Thanks for your reply - I've done a test upgrade with a copy of our 
production 2.1.5 install on another box.  I moved some directories around 
(we're also reorganizing some storage), ran configure with the appropriate 
--prefix option, cleaned out data/qfiles so people wouldn't get deliveries 
from the tes install, and everything started up fine.  Now we're testing 
2.1.9 (although the real test is when folks begin using the 860 lists).


Thanks,

Ivan.


From ifetch at du.edu  Tue Nov 21 10:40:32 2006
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 02:40:32 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00611090906n4ebcc35fg9e5f6227a76eb200@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20061108134601.U40154@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
	<p06240500c1786dddc189@10.0.1.11>
	<6fbe3da00611090906n4ebcc35fg9e5f6227a76eb200@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20061121023605.G69595@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

Hi Patrick,

On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, Patrick Bogen wrote:

> On 11/8/06, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
>> Of course, I actually used the FreeBSD port system to install Mailman
>> as opposed to installing from source, but the concept is the same.
>> And this is no guarantee that things will be this clean for you.
>
> The only added complication when installing from source is that you'd
> need to use the same './configure' arguments as you used before.

    We currently have /usr/local/mailman on each machine, and list data, 
archives, logs, Etc on shared storage.  One of the things we will be 
changing during this upgrade is to have everything Mailman live on the 
shared storage.  During my test upgrade (on another machine) I integrated 
/usr/local/mailman/* and directories from shared storage, and ran 
configure with the --prefix pointing to this new mount point - this 
appears to have worked properly, E.G. Mailman does not look for anything 
in any of the old paths.


Thanks for your reply,

Ivan.


From ifetch at du.edu  Tue Nov 21 11:15:15 2006
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 03:15:15 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] request.pck does not match heldmsg-Listname
	files
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006111617161508596d73f1ca@msapiro>
References: <PC17602006111617161508596d73f1ca@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061121024122.D69595@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

Hi Mark,

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Ivan Fetch wrote:
>>
>>    I've noticed heldmsg-ListName-* files in mailman/data, which the
>> request.pck file for the given list isn't aware of (the pickle only has a
>> version string).
>>
>>    Is there something which others have used to iterate the request.pck
>> file of all lists, and determine orphaned files in the mailman/data
>> directory so they can be deleted?
>
>
> I'm not aware of anything that has been written to check for/remove
> orphaned heldmsg-list-* files, but if the request.pck is empty
> (i.e.contains only the version info), you can just remove any
> heldmsg-list-* files either directly or with bin/delete.

    It seems bin/delete generates an error when it can't find the file 
referenced in the list's request.pck.  Perhaps an option to discard which 
deletes the heldmsg file in cases like this (maybe this is something I'll 
work on after our Mailman upgrade).

$ discard heldmsg-info-dns-157.pck
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/mail/mailman/mailman/bin/discard", line 120, in ?
     main()
   File "/mail/mailman/mailman/bin/discard", line 110, in main
     mlist.HandleRequest(id, mm_cfg.DISCARD, '', False, False, '')
   File "/mail/mailman/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 164, in 
HandleRequest
     rtype, data = self.__db[id]
KeyError: 157


- Ivan.

From ifetch at du.edu  Tue Nov 21 11:30:14 2006
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 03:30:14 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] request.pck does not match heldmsg-Listname
	files
In-Reply-To: <455DBCEB.7060700@fmed.uba.ar>
References: <20061116172925.U69595@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
	<455DBCEB.7060700@fmed.uba.ar>
Message-ID: <20061121031534.R69595@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

HI Gerardo,

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006, Gerardo Herzig wrote:

> Well, if mailman do not provide such a tool, there is lots of quick ways to 
> find such a files: Lets assume that any given .pck file must have at least 5 
> lines to be considered a `good one'. So you can find those files who have 
> less than 5 lines, then you can delete it
>
> Simple python oneliner for finding .pck files fewer than 5 lines:
> cd ~mailman/data
> python
>
>>>> import glob
>>>> '\n'.join([x[0] for x in [(open(y).name, len(open(y).readlines())) for y 
> in glob.glob('*.pck')] if x[1] < 5])
>
> ## the (if x[1] < 5) at the end is the total lines for each file.
> Try it and watch. If you like it, you can save it as find_orphaned_files.py 
> and do
>
> ./find_orphaned_files.py | xargs ~mailman/bin/discard
>
> Or something like this. Its just an idea, hope to be helpfull.
>


    Thanks for your suggestion - in this case, counting the number of lines 
in pck files residing in the Mailman data directory does not help to 
validate those files.  The issue is heldmsg pck files in the data directory which are no 
longer referenced in the list/ListName/request.pck file.


Thanks - Ivan.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Nov 21 11:27:09 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 04:27:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical
In-Reply-To: <20061120222253.0E9C01E4007@bag.python.org>
References: <20061120222253.0E9C01E4007@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p06240502c1888409a598@[10.0.1.11]>

At 2:24 PM -0800 11/20/06, Daevid Vincent wrote:

>  I don't know why everyone is all down on graphical HTML email. The way I see
>  it, I would much prefer HTML if it's a newsletter or something. It's
>  cleaner. Easier to read with formatting. Links aren't these huge URLs. And
>  adds a certain amount of professionalism (assuming it looks good and isn't
>  crappy circa 1988 looking).

The problem is that each client will display the thing totally 
different from every other client.

Haven't you ever had to take twelve different web browsers (and 
versions thereof), to make sure that your web page will look at least 
reasonably okay in all of them?  Well, that situation is about a 
billion times worse with e-mail clients.  Not too many people 
actually try to do any real serious web surfing on their phones, but 
a lot of people do really serious levels of e-mail on their phones -- 
and phones aren't so good at displaying the multi-gigabyte web pages.


If you really want to send someone HTML, then just send them a link 
to a page and be done with it.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Nov 21 11:32:13 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 04:32:13 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical
In-Reply-To: <20061120235244.3EBA31E4014@bag.python.org>
References: <20061120235244.3EBA31E4014@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p06240503c1888549f0a6@[10.0.1.11]>

At 3:54 PM -0800 11/20/06, Daevid Vincent wrote:

>  Agreed. However the statements were about users who have purposely
>  subscribed to a list. And should that list send in HTML or plaintext. My
>  point being that in that case, HTML is fine because the reader WANTS to read
>  what you've sent them, and (at least in my opinion) prefers to have a nice
>  page layout than just courier font text.

The reader didn't necessarily know that the list would be sending out 
HTML, so that's not a valid assumption.

And, as LuKreme said, most people are physically incapable of doing 
good web page design, and what they turn out is the most vile crap 
that has ever had the misfortune of seeing the light of day.  I would 
much prefer to see some plain text with some real content, as opposed 
to a mountain-load of content-free crap that someone threw together 
because they thought they'd baffle me with bullshit, since they 
clearly couldn't dazzle me with brilliance.

>  This is why God invented procmailrc files... Sort your mail at the server
>  into folders and you're winning half the battle.

Yeah, but procmail doesn't help you deal with the stupidity on the 
part of the sender, and how that is reflected in the content of the 
message that you are sent.

It's smart, but not that smart.


Well, I guess you could just /dev/null all HTML messages, that would 
probably be a start.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From gsexton at mhsoftware.com  Tue Nov 21 15:16:47 2006
From: gsexton at mhsoftware.com (George Sexton)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 07:16:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061120160413.0671f570@crimson-dragon.com>
References: <20061120235244.3EBA31E4014@bag.python.org>	<20061120235529.2EF471E4007@bag.python.org>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20061120160413.0671f570@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <45630A4F.60401@mhsoftware.com>

Dragon wrote:
> HTML results in a lot of overhead, this is especially so with a 
> number of MUAs that make bad markup (and more of them perpetrate this 
> crime than don't). It is not unusual for a message that could be sent 
> in 3 or 4 kB to bloat to 10 or even 100 times that size when 
> presented in HTML. All of that markup and the images and what have 
> you take bandwidth to send to all of those list members. A 
> well-behaved MUA should also be sending HTML mail in a 
> multipart-alternative MIME message with a text-html and a plain-text 
> version of the message. All of that also adds even more overhead and 
> eats more bandwidth.
>   
Since 99% of the mail that enters my server is spam of some sort, 
worrying about a little overhead on the 1% that I actually care about 
doesn't make a whole lot of sense.


-- 
George Sexton
MH Software, Inc.
Voice: +1 303 438 9585
URL:   http://www.mhsoftware.com/


From vyom.asterisk at gmail.com  Tue Nov 21 12:16:39 2006
From: vyom.asterisk at gmail.com (vyom asterisk)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:46:39 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Freepbx querries
Message-ID: <64522100611210316sb411434mf1b4cd7626553cf@mail.gmail.com>

Hi!
These are the querries related to Freepbx-
1. How does Asterisk interact with Freepbx?
2. What is the exact finction of Freepbx?
3. How can we load additional modules in Freepbx(other than the core
module)?
4. Which password do we put in the ARI interface of recordings?
5. What exactly are custom trunks used for?
6. What is parking lotand call parking?

It would be great if these querries are resolved.

Thanks and Regards,
Vyom Asterisk.

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Nov 21 16:02:33 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 09:02:33 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Freepbx querries
In-Reply-To: <64522100611210316sb411434mf1b4cd7626553cf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <64522100611210316sb411434mf1b4cd7626553cf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611210702y3354eb0ayd349b478da265739@mail.gmail.com>

In case you didn't already realize this- this is not the correct
mailing list to be posting these questions to.

On 11/21/06, vyom asterisk <vyom.asterisk at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi!
> These are the querries related to Freepbx-
> 1. How does Asterisk interact with Freepbx?
> 2. What is the exact finction of Freepbx?
> 3. How can we load additional modules in Freepbx(other than the core
> module)?
> 4. Which password do we put in the ARI interface of recordings?
> 5. What exactly are custom trunks used for?
> 6. What is parking lotand call parking?
>
> It would be great if these querries are resolved.
>
> Thanks and Regards,
> Vyom Asterisk.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Nov 21 16:49:53 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 00:49:53 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical
In-Reply-To: <45630A4F.60401@mhsoftware.com>
References: <20061120235244.3EBA31E4014@bag.python.org>
	<20061120235529.2EF471E4007@bag.python.org>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20061120160413.0671f570@crimson-dragon.com>
	<45630A4F.60401@mhsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <87d57gn6ji.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

George Sexton writes:
 > Dragon wrote:
 > > HTML results in a lot of overhead,

 > Since 99% of the mail that enters my server is spam of some sort, 
 > worrying about a little overhead on the 1% that I actually care about 
 > doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Assuming that spam mails and real HTML posts are of the same size,
100% effectiveness in spam filtering, and an HTML bloat factor of 2,
you only need your average list to have 200 members for the bandwidth
savings due to prohibiting HTML going out to equal the bandwidth lost
to spam coming in.  Since realistically the HTML bloat factor is
likely to be more like 5-10, the critical level is going to be closer
to 100.


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Nov 21 17:23:18 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 10:23:18 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <20061121023605.G69595@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
References: <20061108134601.U40154@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
	<p06240500c1786dddc189@10.0.1.11>
	<6fbe3da00611090906n4ebcc35fg9e5f6227a76eb200@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061121023605.G69595@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611210823n2d84e89dl339f35ec0a4bf230@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/21/06, Ivan Fetch <ifetch at du.edu> wrote:
>     We currently have /usr/local/mailman on each machine, and list data,
> archives, logs, Etc on shared storage.  One of the things we will be
> changing during this upgrade is to have everything Mailman live on the
> shared storage.  During my test upgrade (on another machine) I integrated
> /usr/local/mailman/* and directories from shared storage, and ran
> configure with the --prefix pointing to this new mount point - this
> appears to have worked properly, E.G. Mailman does not look for anything
> in any of the old paths.

Sounds good. I guess I could've been clearer, and indicated that the
configure settings need to match the current installation- so if you
change the current installation, this won't necessarily be the
original configure arguments you used before. :)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Nov 21 17:30:55 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 10:30:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating list defaults and filters?
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20061120124909.020e6d40@beloit.edu>
References: <7.0.1.0.0.20061120124909.020e6d40@beloit.edu>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611210830q662c2725ge9f442e5594b42da@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/20/06, Tim Tyler <tyler at beloit.edu> wrote:
>    Mailman users,
>   I have two questions.  We are running Mailman 2.1.5 on Redhat.
>
> 1. Is there a way when creating lists to have it automatically set
> certain fields with certain defaults such as Archives off, mail size
> limit 40k, etc.; instead of having to manually set them?
FAQ 4.38 <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.038.htp>
might help with this. I could've sworn there was an FAQ relating to
how to make 'cookie-cutter' lists, as it were, but I can't seem to
find it. This info might just be in the list archives.

> 2. Is there a way to set a filter for a list such that all messages
> are automatically rejected or discarded if they don't have a
> particular subject header string such as [announce] in it?  I see
> that one can accept [announce] in the filters, but how does one wild
> card reject all the rest?  Also, I presume that order matters, correct?

What you want to do, in this case, is set a header_filter_rule that
accepts anything with [announce] in it, and then set the default
action to be discard.

However, it sounds like you're trying to set up an umbrella list. An
easier solution here would be to have the umbrella list sender address
(e.g., announce-bounces at example.com) be in the
'accept_these_nonmembers', and set generic_nonmember_action to
discard. If necessary, you can further set all members of the list to
moderated, and set member_moderation_action to 'discard'.


-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From gsexton at mhsoftware.com  Tue Nov 21 17:34:02 2006
From: gsexton at mhsoftware.com (George Sexton)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 09:34:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical
In-Reply-To: <87d57gn6ji.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <20061120235244.3EBA31E4014@bag.python.org>	<20061120235529.2EF471E4007@bag.python.org>	<7.0.1.0.2.20061120160413.0671f570@crimson-dragon.com>	<45630A4F.60401@mhsoftware.com>
	<87d57gn6ji.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <45632A7A.3070106@mhsoftware.com>

Whatever. It's a religious discussion and I'm not interested in it.

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> George Sexton writes:
>  > Dragon wrote:
>  > > HTML results in a lot of overhead,
>
>  > Since 99% of the mail that enters my server is spam of some sort, 
>  > worrying about a little overhead on the 1% that I actually care about 
>  > doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
>
> Assuming that spam mails and real HTML posts are of the same size,
> 100% effectiveness in spam filtering, and an HTML bloat factor of 2,
> you only need your average list to have 200 members for the bandwidth
> savings due to prohibiting HTML going out to equal the bandwidth lost
> to spam coming in.  Since realistically the HTML bloat factor is
> likely to be more like 5-10, the critical level is going to be closer
> to 100.
>
>   

-- 
George Sexton
MH Software, Inc.
Voice: +1 303 438 9585
URL:   http://www.mhsoftware.com/


From am at apl.washington.edu  Tue Nov 21 17:44:59 2006
From: am at apl.washington.edu (Adam Morehead)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 08:44:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical
In-Reply-To: <45632A7A.3070106@mhsoftware.com>
References: <20061120235244.3EBA31E4014@bag.python.org>	<20061120235529.2EF471E4007@bag.python.org>	<7.0.1.0.2.20061120160413.0671f570@crimson-dragon.com>	<45630A4F.60401@mhsoftware.com>	<87d57gn6ji.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<45632A7A.3070106@mhsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <45632D0B.7020103@apl.washington.edu>

Ok we have a mailing list setup for only our domain name to send out 
notices without needing approved, but there is one important person who 
does not have that domain name in her email address, so she always needs 
to get approval for posts... my question is, is there a way to set it up 
so she can post without approval, BUT not get the notices? (IE I cant 
just set her up as a user in the list)

------------------------------------------------------------
Adam Morehead

From am at apl.washington.edu  Tue Nov 21 17:46:54 2006
From: am at apl.washington.edu (Adam Morehead)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 08:46:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] External Address Help...
In-Reply-To: <45632D0B.7020103@apl.washington.edu>
References: <20061120235244.3EBA31E4014@bag.python.org>	<20061120235529.2EF471E4007@bag.python.org>	<7.0.1.0.2.20061120160413.0671f570@crimson-dragon.com>	<45630A4F.60401@mhsoftware.com>	<87d57gn6ji.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>	<45632A7A.3070106@mhsoftware.com>
	<45632D0B.7020103@apl.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <45632D7E.6050205@apl.washington.edu>

Sorry for not changing the subject on the last email.

------------------------------------------------------------
Adam Morehead


Adam Morehead wrote:
> Ok we have a mailing list setup for only our domain name to send out 
> notices without needing approved, but there is one important person who 
> does not have that domain name in her email address, so she always needs 
> to get approval for posts... my question is, is there a way to set it up 
> so she can post without approval, BUT not get the notices? (IE I cant 
> just set her up as a user in the list)
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Adam Morehead
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/am%40apl.washington.edu
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 21 17:44:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 08:44:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <6091FAB5-71CA-40BA-BDDA-83F42945E345@kreme.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006112108443206563eaa3110@msapiro>

LuKreme wrote:

>In  
>fact, it can even BE a link to the archive of the message (but  
>please, make that a toggle-able feature).


Not without drastically altering Mailman's architecture. Delivery and
archiving are done in parallel and asynchronously by separate runners.
IncomingRunner drops the message to be archived in the archive queue
for ArchRunner to process. At this point there is no way to know what
the archive URL will be, and when the message is archived and the URL
is known, there is no way for ArchRunner to pass that back to the
outgoing message which may have already been sent.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 21 17:47:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 08:47:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c186e35f2119@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <PC17602006112108475601253eaa2f15@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 9:41 AM -0800 11/19/06, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>  I think it would suffice to update the archtocnombox.html template
>>  which is used to build the top level page at
>>  <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/> and which is rebuilt
>>  with every archived message.
>
>I already tried that.  Didn't seem to work.


Did you restart Mailman?  Archiving keeps an in-memory template cache
which needs to be refreshed by a restart.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at python.org  Tue Nov 21 18:13:16 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:13:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical
In-Reply-To: <45632A7A.3070106@mhsoftware.com>
References: <20061120235244.3EBA31E4014@bag.python.org>	<20061120235529.2EF471E4007@bag.python.org>	<7.0.1.0.2.20061120160413.0671f570@crimson-dragon.com>	<45630A4F.60401@mhsoftware.com>
	<87d57gn6ji.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<45632A7A.3070106@mhsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <781EE720-3C41-47D0-91EA-01BE21831324@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Nov 21, 2006, at 11:34 AM, George Sexton wrote:

> Whatever. It's a religious discussion and I'm not interested in it.

It also doesn't really affect Mailman one way or the other, except  
possibly when talking about additional digest formats.

- -Barry

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From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 21 18:19:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 09:19:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <5700F024-CB72-4202-B727-65560853F71A@python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602006112109191600933eaa2ecd@msapiro>

Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
>Can someone check to see just how badly broken our urls are?  I'd  
>start with the FAQ.  Since many bugs that broke reproducibility have  
>been fixed for a while, maybe we got lucky, at least with newer  
>archive messages.


I just did a search of the FAQ for 'http://mail.python.org' and there
are 41 articles returned. 1.18 at least contains only a generic URL,
but the few other links I checked return the wrong articles. I can
work on fixing this over the next few days.

I checked a few links in the 2002 to 2005 range and it seems that they
can be fixed by incrementing the message number by '4' in the URL.

However, I see no change on the TOC or monthly index pages. Brad, which
template(s) did you change? The main one is archtocnombox.html, not
archtoc.html which is only used if there is a link to the global mbox
(mm_cfg.PUBLIC_MBOX is True which it isn't for the mail.python.org
lists).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From nospam001-lists at jankoh.dyndns.org  Tue Nov 21 18:29:14 2006
From: nospam001-lists at jankoh.dyndns.org (Jan Kohnert)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:29:14 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and UTF8
Message-ID: <36850.141.33.55.114.1164130154.squirrel@secure.the-pojs.dyndns.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hello folks,

I think I wrote about this problem some time ago and thought I fixed that
with your help. But acually I did not. :(

I running a German list and so also have a German list archive.

Now I moved my server to utf8 and tried to get Mailman to work with it.

I have set all neccessary things in mm_cfg.py but it still did not work.

So I found out, I have to encode the german mailman.po file in UTF-8 and
then rebuild the *.mo out of it. Now it works, so I can provide this
version (to large for this list to attach it). (Mailman 2.1.9_rc1).

But there is one (small) thing left:
If you look in [1] you will notice one incorrectly displayed character
(the ---next part---, in German ---n?chster Teil--- does not work in all
cases ([1] does not work, [2] does), altough all my editors say, the
umlaut is correctly declared...

So maybe I missed something or there is a bug somewhere.

But anyway, if Peer does read this list and wants/needs help I could hav a
closer look on the translation to get it complete.

Best regards Jan

[1]
https://secure.the-pojs.dyndns.org/pipermail/pojs-discussion/2006-November/000296.html
[2]
https://secure.the-pojs.dyndns.org/pipermail/pojs-discussion/2006-November/000297.html

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From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 21 18:49:55 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 09:49:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] External Address Help...
In-Reply-To: <45632D7E.6050205@apl.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611210949550750b07a7185@msapiro>

Adam Morehead wrote:

>Sorry for not changing the subject on the last email.


The new subject helps, but generating a new post as a reply to a post
in an unrelated thread causes the new thread to be buried in the old
and thus to not stand out in the archive.

See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-November/thread.html#54478>.


>Adam Morehead wrote:
>> Ok we have a mailing list setup for only our domain name to send out 
>> notices without needing approved, but there is one important person who 
>> does not have that domain name in her email address, so she always needs 
>> to get approval for posts... my question is, is there a way to set it up 
>> so she can post without approval, BUT not get the notices? (IE I cant 
>> just set her up as a user in the list)


Why can't you add her to the list with delivery disabled?

How do you control 'posting privilege'. Would it work to add her to
'accept_these_nonmembers'?

<unrelated rant>
Why do people want to be able to post to lists without having seen
what's already been posted. How do they know their post isn't
redundant?
</rant>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at python.org  Tue Nov 21 18:58:58 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:58:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006112108443206563eaa3110@msapiro>
References: <PC17602006112108443206563eaa3110@msapiro>
Message-ID: <28BF3304-CFD6-4EA0-837F-B0BCC5F70C28@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Nov 21, 2006, at 11:44 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> LuKreme wrote:
>
>> In
>> fact, it can even BE a link to the archive of the message (but
>> please, make that a toggle-able feature).
>
>
> Not without drastically altering Mailman's architecture. Delivery and
> archiving are done in parallel and asynchronously by separate runners.
> IncomingRunner drops the message to be archived in the archive queue
> for ArchRunner to process. At this point there is no way to know what
> the archive URL will be, and when the message is archived and the URL
> is known, there is no way for ArchRunner to pass that back to the
> outgoing message which may have already been sent.

Unless you can devise a scheme that allows you to calculate the  
archive url given only information you already have, or can derive  
from the message.  Ultimately, this is what I'd love to have.  I've  
been doing a few experiments along these lines, and I'll probably  
write more about it later (either in mailman-developers or on the wiki).

- -Barry

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From barry at python.org  Tue Nov 21 19:00:02 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:00:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006112109191600933eaa2ecd@msapiro>
References: <PC17602006112109191600933eaa2ecd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <0E5E0A9F-EA7C-480C-9EC1-5D617B217E7B@python.org>

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On Nov 21, 2006, at 12:19 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I just did a search of the FAQ for 'http://mail.python.org' and there
> are 41 articles returned. 1.18 at least contains only a generic URL,
> but the few other links I checked return the wrong articles. I can
> work on fixing this over the next few days.

Thanks Mark!
- -Barry

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From kremels at kreme.com  Tue Nov 21 19:05:31 2006
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:05:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] External Address Help...
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611210949550750b07a7185@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200611210949550750b07a7185@msapiro>
Message-ID: <A7236A6C-5266-4FE3-8979-A34A124216C2@kreme.com>

On 21-Nov-2006, at 10:49, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> <unrelated rant>
> Why do people want to be able to post to lists without having seen
> what's already been posted. How do they know their post isn't
> redundant?
> </rant>

Because they are in management which means:

   1) Everyone is intensely interested in what they have to say
   2) Nothing anyone else could ever say is worth hearing/reading
   3) Nothing they say can, by definition, be redundant

-- 
I draw the line at 7 unreturned phone calls.


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 21 19:21:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 10:21:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating list defaults and filters?
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20061120124909.020e6d40@beloit.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020061121102158006224c72ed8@msapiro>

Tim Tyler wrote:
>
>1. Is there a way when creating lists to have it automatically set 
>certain fields with certain defaults such as Archives off, mail size 
>limit 40k, etc.; instead of having to manually set them?


There are mm_cfg.py settings for some list defaults, but not all.

There are settings for DEFAULT_ARCHIVE and DEFAULT_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE.
See the sections "# Archive defaults" and "# List defaults" in
Defaults.py for a list of what's available.


>2. Is there a way to set a filter for a list such that all messages 
>are automatically rejected or discarded if they don't have a 
>particular subject header string such as [announce] in it?  I see 
>that one can accept [announce] in the filters, but how does one wild 
>card reject all the rest?  Also, I presume that order matters, correct?


In header filter rules, first set one or more rules to match and accept
what you want to pass. Then set the last rule with a RE that matches
anything (e.g. simply '^' or '.') and an action of reject (or hold or
discard).

Yes, order matters, the first rule matched is the one that applies to
the message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Tue Nov 21 19:37:35 2006
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 19:37:35 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating list defaults and filters?
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061121102158006224c72ed8@msapiro>
References: <7.0.1.0.0.20061120124909.020e6d40@beloit.edu>
	<PC176020061121102158006224c72ed8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061121183735.GA26767@charite.de>

* Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>:

> >1. Is there a way when creating lists to have it automatically set 
> >certain fields with certain defaults such as Archives off, mail size 
> >limit 40k, etc.; instead of having to manually set them?
> 
> 
> There are mm_cfg.py settings for some list defaults, but not all.

Which ones? Is there a list which defaults can be put there?

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                    send no mail to plonk at charite.de

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 21 19:31:29 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 10:31:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Process Hanging
In-Reply-To: <4562403D.8050505@farheap.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006112110312905463767639f@msapiro>

Jared Griffith wrote:
>
>Everything was working fine for about 6 months, then all of a sudden it 
>stopped working.  Now I have to go into the server everyday to stop and 
>start the daemon, at which point it will send out mail posted to the lists.


What is in the Mailman log files 'error' and 'qrunner'?

Before you stop mailmanctl, are mailmanctl and all eight qrunner
processes running? See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>
sec. 1b.

When Mailman stops processing messages, in which queue (subdirectory of
qfiles/) are the messages (tttt.tttt+xxxxxxxx.pck files) found?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 21 19:45:13 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 10:45:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] request.pck does not match heldmsg-Listname
	files
In-Reply-To: <20061121024122.D69595@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611211045130812ef872ef9@msapiro>

Ivan Fetch 
>
>On Thu, 16 Nov 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> I'm not aware of anything that has been written to check for/remove
>> orphaned heldmsg-list-* files, but if the request.pck is empty
>> (i.e.contains only the version info), you can just remove any
>> heldmsg-list-* files either directly or with bin/delete.
>
>    It seems bin/delete generates an error when it can't find the file 
>referenced in the list's request.pck.  Perhaps an option to discard which 
>deletes the heldmsg file in cases like this (maybe this is something I'll 
>work on after our Mailman upgrade).


So the immediate solution is to just rm the heldmsg-list-* files that
aren't referenced in config.pck rather than using bin/discard.

Another possible solution is to teach bin/discard to catch the
exception and ignore it.

The real question though is how does this come about in the first
place. Is this a one time glitch resulting from some particular event,
or is it a recurring situation. If the latter, it might be worth
creating a script to find and delete the orphaned heldmsg-* files, but
the real solution is to figure out why it's happening and fix that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 21 19:56:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 10:56:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating list defaults and filters?
In-Reply-To: <20061121183735.GA26767@charite.de>
Message-ID: <PC17602006112110564805315c7e35e3@msapiro>

Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:

>* Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>:
>
>> There are mm_cfg.py settings for some list defaults, but not all.
>
>Which ones? Is there a list which defaults can be put there?


Read Defaults.py.

Anything that's set there can be overridden in mm_cfg.py (although as
noted there, some settings are for internal Mailman use and shouldn't
be changed).

Anything not in Defaults.py can't be meaningfully set in mm_cfg.py
unless you modify Mailman code to use it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ifetch at du.edu  Tue Nov 21 21:04:27 2006
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:04:27 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] request.pck does not match heldmsg-Listname
	files
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611211045130812ef872ef9@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200611211045130812ef872ef9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061121130024.T69595@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

Hi Mark,


On Tue, 21 Nov 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Ivan Fetch
>>
>> On Thu, 16 Nov 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not aware of anything that has been written to check for/remove
>>> orphaned heldmsg-list-* files, but if the request.pck is empty
>>> (i.e.contains only the version info), you can just remove any
>>> heldmsg-list-* files either directly or with bin/delete.
>>
>>    It seems bin/delete generates an error when it can't find the file
>> referenced in the list's request.pck.  Perhaps an option to discard which
>> deletes the heldmsg file in cases like this (maybe this is something I'll
>> work on after our Mailman upgrade).
>
>
> So the immediate solution is to just rm the heldmsg-list-* files that
> aren't referenced in config.pck rather than using bin/discard.
>
> Another possible solution is to teach bin/discard to catch the
> exception and ignore it.
>
> The real question though is how does this come about in the first
> place. Is this a one time glitch resulting from some particular event,
> or is it a recurring situation. If the latter, it might be worth
> creating a script to find and delete the orphaned heldmsg-* files, but
> the real solution is to figure out why it's happening and fix that.

    My plan is to upgrade to 2.1.9, clean the heldmsg* files which are not 
referenced in lists' request.pck, then see whether we end up with any more 
un-accounted for heldmsg* files.

    We have had some issues with 2.1.5 queue runners freezing due (we 
think) to big5 characters in email subjects, although I don't know whether 
this could cause request.pck not to be updated.


Thanks - Ivan.


From raquel at thericehouse.net  Tue Nov 21 21:15:41 2006
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:15:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stopping Posts to mailman List
Message-ID: <20061121121541.4def2df0.raquel@thericehouse.net>

I have a spammer who's posting to mailman at domain.com.  Obviously,
the administration interface cannot be accessed for this list.  How
do I stop someone from posting to this list?  Also, I can't get rid
of the moderator requests for this list.

Debian Sarge
Sendmail 8.13.4
Mailman 2.1.5

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
Judgmentalism assumes that you have the right to change someone
else.  Well, you don't.  You only have the right to choose how *you*
will change and behave.  Trust others to make their own choices. 
Put the accountability for another's actions where it belongs, on
the other person's shoulders.
  --Vince Poscente


From raquel at thericehouse.net  Tue Nov 21 21:34:13 2006
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:34:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stopping Posts to mailman List
In-Reply-To: <45636206.2000007@music.memphis.edu>
References: <20061121121541.4def2df0.raquel@thericehouse.net>
	<45636206.2000007@music.memphis.edu>
Message-ID: <20061121123413.0b4a82fb.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:31:02 -0600
Dan <dan at music.memphis.edu> wrote:

> Raquel wrote:
> > Obviously, the administration interface cannot be accessed for
> > this list.
> 
> Why not? It works for me. Mailman 2.1.5, OS X.
> 
> Dan
> 

Yes, the first page can be accessed.  However, saving or accessing
pages other than the main page doesn't work.

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
You can't separate peace from freedom, because no one can be at
peace unless he has his freedom.
  --Malcolm X


From tmz at pobox.com  Tue Nov 21 21:36:25 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 15:36:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stopping Posts to mailman List
In-Reply-To: <20061121121541.4def2df0.raquel@thericehouse.net>
References: <20061121121541.4def2df0.raquel@thericehouse.net>
Message-ID: <20061121203625.GI32659@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Raquel wrote:
> I have a spammer who's posting to mailman at domain.com.  Obviously,
> the administration interface cannot be accessed for this list.

I must be missing the obvious part.  Why can't you access the admin
interface for that list?

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
    -- Andre Gide

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From peter at cww.org.uk  Tue Nov 21 21:39:10 2006
From: peter at cww.org.uk (Peter Edley)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:39:10 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  undelivered mail, but only to some
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAG5faJQ7+R9NpZek/b5r7hbCgAAAEAAAAI1oGgPQRlhBoGbHHSciMlgBAAAAAA==@cww.org.uk>

I found your post on the mailman users list about emails not getting sent to
some users.

 

Did you ever manage to solve this problem as i seem to be having exactly the
problem.

 

If you did manage to solve could you please email me and let me know how.

 

Peter Edley


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 21 21:56:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:56:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stopping Posts to mailman List
In-Reply-To: <20061121203625.GI32659@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020061121125606051581c3da49@msapiro>

Todd Zullinger wrote:
>
>Raquel wrote:
>> I have a spammer who's posting to mailman at domain.com.  Obviously,
>> the administration interface cannot be accessed for this list.
>
>I must be missing the obvious part.  Why can't you access the admin
>interface for that list?


Me too. If you mean you don't know the list password and/or the site
password then if you shouldn't know these things, pass the problem to
the person who should, and if you should know these things, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.008.htp>.

If you mean that attempts to go to URLs like
<http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/mailman> and
<http://www.example.com/mailman/admindb/mailman> take you to the
listinfo overview page instead, your web server is misconfigured. You
have something like

RedirectMatch /mailman[/]*$   http://www.example.com/mailman/listinfo

and it should be

RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$   http://www.example.com/mailman/listinfo

Fix this, but in the mean time you can use URL's like

<http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/mailman/x> and
<http://www.example.com/mailman/admindb/mailman/x> instead.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 21 22:11:45 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:11:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stopping Posts to mailman List
In-Reply-To: <20061121123413.0b4a82fb.raquel@thericehouse.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611211311450062a327be0b@msapiro>

Raquel wrote:
>
>Yes, the first page can be accessed.  However, saving or accessing
>pages other than the main page doesn't work.


See my reply at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-November/054530.html>.

If you are accessing something like
<http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/mailman/x> to get to the General
Options page, then you can't post changes or follow links to other
pages because those URLs don't have the trailing 'x' to foil the
redirect.

If this is some other issue, please provide more specific detail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From raquel at thericehouse.net  Tue Nov 21 22:23:05 2006
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:23:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stopping Posts to mailman List
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611211311450062a327be0b@msapiro>
References: <20061121123413.0b4a82fb.raquel@thericehouse.net>
	<PC1760200611211311450062a327be0b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061121132305.58a657ff.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:11:45 -0800
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Raquel wrote:
> >
> >Yes, the first page can be accessed.  However, saving or
> >accessing pages other than the main page doesn't work.
> 
> 
> See my reply at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-November/054
> 530.html>.
> 
> If you are accessing something like
> <http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/mailman/x> to get to the
> General Options page, then you can't post changes or follow links
> to other pages because those URLs don't have the trailing 'x' to
> foil the redirect.
> 
> If this is some other issue, please provide more specific detail.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B.
> Dylan

I can get to
http://my.FQDN/mailman/admin/mailman
and to
http://my.FQDN/mailman/admin/mailman/general

However, I cannot get to
http://my.FQDN/mailman/admin/mailman/privacy
or
members
or ...

All other lists I serve work wonderfully.  It's only the
automatically installed list, "mailman".

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
If God lived on earth, people would break his windows.
  --Jewish Proverb


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 21 22:34:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:34:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stopping Posts to mailman List
In-Reply-To: <20061121132305.58a657ff.raquel@thericehouse.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611211334460328b4386956@msapiro>

Raquel wrote:
>
>I can get to
>http://my.FQDN/mailman/admin/mailman
>and to
>http://my.FQDN/mailman/admin/mailman/general
>
>However, I cannot get to
>http://my.FQDN/mailman/admin/mailman/privacy
>or
>members
>or ...


And what response do you get when you go to one of these URLs, and what
is in the web server logs for these attempts?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From raquel at thericehouse.net  Tue Nov 21 22:35:38 2006
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:35:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stopping Posts to mailman List
In-Reply-To: <20061121121541.4def2df0.raquel@thericehouse.net>
References: <20061121121541.4def2df0.raquel@thericehouse.net>
Message-ID: <20061121133538.3b3b15f2.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:15:41 -0800
Raquel <raquel at thericehouse.net> wrote:

> I have a spammer who's posting to mailman at domain.com.  Obviously,
> the administration interface cannot be accessed for this list. 
> How do I stop someone from posting to this list?  Also, I can't
> get rid of the moderator requests for this list.
> 
> Debian Sarge
> Sendmail 8.13.4
> Mailman 2.1.5
> 
> -- 
> Raquel

I fixed the problem of not being able to change configuration, using
config_list.  However, the problem of being able to remove the
moderator requests still exists.

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
Nobody is free until everybody is free.
  --William T. Atkins


From raquel at thericehouse.net  Tue Nov 21 22:42:41 2006
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:42:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stopping Posts to mailman List
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611211334460328b4386956@msapiro>
References: <20061121132305.58a657ff.raquel@thericehouse.net>
	<PC1760200611211334460328b4386956@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061121134241.26027688.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:34:46 -0800
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Raquel wrote:
> >
> >I can get to
> >http://my.FQDN/mailman/admin/mailman
> >and to
> >http://my.FQDN/mailman/admin/mailman/general
> >
> >However, I cannot get to
> >http://my.FQDN/mailman/admin/mailman/privacy
> >or
> >members
> >or ...
> 
> 
> And what response do you get when you go to one of these URLs, and
> what is in the web server logs for these attempts?
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro

I get my server's "Error 404" page with no error in the Apache
server logs.

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
Nobody is free until everybody is free.
  --William T. Atkins


From kremels at kreme.com  Tue Nov 21 22:59:13 2006
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:59:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stopping Posts to mailman List
In-Reply-To: <20061121134241.26027688.raquel@thericehouse.net>
References: <20061121132305.58a657ff.raquel@thericehouse.net>
	<PC1760200611211334460328b4386956@msapiro>
	<20061121134241.26027688.raquel@thericehouse.net>
Message-ID: <1D83526B-5A90-4041-9DFE-306CE3A6BAB5@kreme.com>

On 21-Nov-2006, at 14:42, Raquel wrote:
> I get my server's "Error 404" page with no error in the Apache
> server logs.

Then your apache is FUBARed because apaches is supposed to log every  
error to the error log, unless you've disabled that.

Enable logging and try again so we can see what the error actually is.

-- 
My biggest problem is that Steve insists on serving PURPLE Kool Aid,  
and I don't like PURPLE <sip sip> Kool Aid.




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 21 23:12:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:12:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stopping Posts to mailman List
In-Reply-To: <20061121134241.26027688.raquel@thericehouse.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020061121141240001578824237@msapiro>

Raquel wrote:

>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

>> And what response do you get when you go to one of these URLs, and
>> what is in the web server logs for these attempts?
>I get my server's "Error 404" page with no error in the Apache
>server logs.


So Apache encounters an error, sends a 404 not found and logs nothing
at all in access_log or error_log? Seems like some serious Apache
deficiency to me.

OTOH, when you said

> >However, I cannot get to
> >http://my.FQDN/mailman/admin/mailman/privacy
> >or
> >members
> >or ...


Do you mean you actually tried to go to those URLs, or you just
followed the links on the General Options page. If the latter, the
web_page_url attribute of the mailman list is probably wrong. Try
running fix_url on the mailman list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ken at lookaroundcornwall.com  Tue Nov 21 23:28:32 2006
From: ken at lookaroundcornwall.com (Ken McMahon)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 22:28:32 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman newbie installation problems on virtual
	server
Message-ID: <001601c70dbc$6086d3d0$0302a8c0@P4Tower>

I'm attempting, it seems against my better judgement, to install Mailman
2.1.9 on my virtual server. I have very limited knowledge of Webserver
configuration, Python, or anything else, but I've managed most of it
successfully. I think the problem I have is to do with VirtualHost setup. I
have installed Mailman with reference to the installation manual and
(apparently quite outdated) documentation on my ISP website. I have
successfully installed the files and run check_perms with no problem.

I've set up a VirtualHost as follows:

<VirtualHost mailman.lookaroundcornwall.com>
ServerName mailman.lookaroundcornwall.com
ServerAdmin mailman.lookaroundcornwall.com
DocumentRoot /home/mailman
ScriptAlias /mailman /home/mailman/cgi-bin
Alias /pipermail /home/mailman/archives/public
</VirtualHost>

And added a cname record to the lookaroundcornwall.com zone file pointing
mailman.lookaroundcornwall.com to lookaroundcornwall.com

I've setup a test list, and added the aliases generated to
/usr/local/etc/mail/aliases, then run newaliases.

I receive the confirmation email with the password and links to the web
config and user pages -

You can configure your mailing list at the following web page:

    http://mailman.lookaroundcornwall.com/mailman/admin/testlist

The web page for users of your mailing list is: 

    http://mailman.lookaroundcornwall.com/mailman/listinfo/testlist

But, these pages don't exist. 

I think, (probably incorrectly, given I don't really know what I'm doing)
that the problem may lie in the /usr/local/home/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py
file. On the ISP advice, I've changed DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and
DEFAULT-URL_HOST as follows

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lookaroundcornwall.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lookaroundcornwall.com'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://mailman.%s/mailman/'

Clearly, something ain't right as these files aren't being written.

Can anybody help me sort this?

Cheers

ken

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.12/544 - Release Date: 21/11/2006
 


From raquel at thericehouse.net  Tue Nov 21 23:28:53 2006
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:28:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stopping Posts to mailman List
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061121141240001578824237@msapiro>
References: <20061121134241.26027688.raquel@thericehouse.net>
	<PC176020061121141240001578824237@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061121142853.53208c2f.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:12:40 -0800
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Raquel wrote:
> 
> >Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> 
> >> And what response do you get when you go to one of these URLs,
> >and > what is in the web server logs for these attempts?
> >I get my server's "Error 404" page with no error in the Apache
> >server logs.
> 
> 
> So Apache encounters an error, sends a 404 not found and logs
> nothing at all in access_log or error_log? Seems like some serious
> Apache deficiency to me.

Entry in access log:
68.124.131.140 - - [21/Nov/2006:13:40:17 -0800] "GET
/icons/mailman.jpg HTTP/1.1" 302 232
"http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/admin/mailman" "Mozilla/5.0
(X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20060927 Firefox/1.0.4
(Debian package 1.0.4-2sarge12)"

> 
> OTOH, when you said
> 
> > >However, I cannot get to
> > >http://my.FQDN/mailman/admin/mailman/privacy
> > >or
> > >members
> > >or ...
> 
> 
> Do you mean you actually tried to go to those URLs, or you just
> followed the links on the General Options page. If the latter, the
> web_page_url attribute of the mailman list is probably wrong. Try
> running fix_url on the mailman list.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro 

Either way I get the same result.

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
It is easy to take liberty for granted when you have never had it
taken from you.
  --M. Grundler


From earle at isolar.DynDNS.ORG  Tue Nov 21 23:36:04 2006
From: earle at isolar.DynDNS.ORG (Greg Earle)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:36:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1357.1164127660.32030.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.1357.1164127660.32030.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <45637F54.7070801@isolar.DynDNS.ORG>

"Patrick Bogen" <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11/21/06, Ivan Fetch <ifetch at du.edu> wrote:
>>     We currently have /usr/local/mailman on each machine, and list data,
>> archives, logs, Etc on shared storage.  One of the things we will be
>> changing during this upgrade is to have everything Mailman live on the
>> shared storage.  During my test upgrade (on another machine) I integrated
>> /usr/local/mailman/* and directories from shared storage, and ran
>> configure with the --prefix pointing to this new mount point - this
>> appears to have worked properly, E.G. Mailman does not look for anything
>> in any of the old paths.
> 
> Sounds good. I guess I could've been clearer, and indicated that the
> configure settings need to match the current installation- so if you
> change the current installation, this won't necessarily be the
> original configure arguments you used before. :)

I'm contemplating moving from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9 on a Red Hat Enterprise WS 3
system.  I built a custom 2.1.5 from a src RPM with the htDig stuff
added originally; on a system with no Mailman installed.  Now of course
I have a running setup with a dozen or so lists, and am afraid to go
and overwrite stuff and break the lists.  (I already accidentally
installed the new src RPM yesterday and overwrote my custom mailman.spec
file from my 2.1.5 setup - thank goodness for daily backups).

Any caveats/gotchas/suggestions to look out for?  (So far I've already
noticed from the old/new spec files that mmdir/varmmdir et al. have
changed from "/var/mailman" to "/{usr,var}/lib/${name}", for example.)

Thanks,

	- Greg

From turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp  Wed Nov 22 02:13:15 2006
From: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 10:13:15 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical
In-Reply-To: <781EE720-3C41-47D0-91EA-01BE21831324@python.org>
References: <20061120235244.3EBA31E4014@bag.python.org>
	<20061120235529.2EF471E4007@bag.python.org>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20061120160413.0671f570@crimson-dragon.com>
	<45630A4F.60401@mhsoftware.com>
	<87d57gn6ji.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<45632A7A.3070106@mhsoftware.com>
	<781EE720-3C41-47D0-91EA-01BE21831324@python.org>
Message-ID: <877ixomggk.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Barry Warsaw writes:

 > It also doesn't really affect Mailman one way or the other, except  
 > possibly when talking about additional digest formats.

Bandwidth-limiting ISPs are a FAQ on this list, though.  If we could
provide statistics on how much bloat there is, that might help people
decide their list policy.



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov 22 03:00:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:00:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stopping Posts to mailman List
In-Reply-To: <20061121142853.53208c2f.raquel@thericehouse.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602006112118001604060cea5566@msapiro>

Raquel wrote:
>
>Entry in access log:
>68.124.131.140 - - [21/Nov/2006:13:40:17 -0800] "GET
>/icons/mailman.jpg HTTP/1.1" 302 232
>"http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/admin/mailman" "Mozilla/5.0
>(X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20060927 Firefox/1.0.4
>(Debian package 1.0.4-2sarge12)"

This entry only relates to the retrieval of the Mailman logo for the
bottom of the page by the admin page. If that is the only entry in the
Apache logs relating to this retrieval, something is wrong with
Apache's logging.

Do you possibly have separate logs for different domains in which the
relevant entries might be found?

I note that I can go to
<http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/admindb/mailman> and get a
moderator login page. What happens if you go there and log in?

Also, the footer on that page says in part "Overview of all
missy.yellowline.com mailing lists" which indicates the host_name
(email domain) for the mailman list is missy.yellowline.com. Is that
correct?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov 22 03:17:20 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:17:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman newbie installation problems on
	virtualserver
In-Reply-To: <001601c70dbc$6086d3d0$0302a8c0@P4Tower>
Message-ID: <PC17602006112118172001250cea5451@msapiro>

Ken McMahon wrote:

>I've set up a VirtualHost as follows:
>
><VirtualHost mailman.lookaroundcornwall.com>
>ServerName mailman.lookaroundcornwall.com
>ServerAdmin mailman.lookaroundcornwall.com
>DocumentRoot /home/mailman
>ScriptAlias /mailman /home/mailman/cgi-bin
>Alias /pipermail /home/mailman/archives/public
></VirtualHost>
>
>And added a cname record to the lookaroundcornwall.com zone file pointing
>mailman.lookaroundcornwall.com to lookaroundcornwall.com
>
>I've setup a test list, and added the aliases generated to
>/usr/local/etc/mail/aliases, then run newaliases.
>
>I receive the confirmation email with the password and links to the web
>config and user pages -
>
>You can configure your mailing list at the following web page:
>
>    http://mailman.lookaroundcornwall.com/mailman/admin/testlist
>
>The web page for users of your mailing list is: 
>
>    http://mailman.lookaroundcornwall.com/mailman/listinfo/testlist
>
>But, these pages don't exist. 


Why not?

There should be CGI wrappers in /home/mailman/cgi-bin which is where
Apache will look for them given the above config. Is that where they
are?


>I think, (probably incorrectly, given I don't really know what I'm doing)
>that the problem may lie in the /usr/local/home/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py
>file. On the ISP advice, I've changed DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and
>DEFAULT-URL_HOST as follows


You shouldn't change Defaults.py. You should override things in
mm_cfg.py. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.021.htp>.


>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lookaroundcornwall.com'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lookaroundcornwall.com'
>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://mailman.%s/mailman/'


This probably isn't right. It looks like DEFAULT_URL_HOST should be
'mailman.lookaroundcornwall.com' and DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN should be
'http://%s/mailman/'.

This should be set in mm_cfg.py with

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lookaroundcornwall.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mailman.lookaroundcornwall.com'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

And then the list updated with fix_url. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>
and
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov 22 03:46:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:46:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <45637F54.7070801@isolar.DynDNS.ORG>
Message-ID: <PC17602006112118463307500cea56cf@msapiro>

Greg Earle wrote:
>
>I'm contemplating moving from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9 on a Red Hat Enterprise WS 3
>system.  I built a custom 2.1.5 from a src RPM with the htDig stuff
>added originally; on a system with no Mailman installed.  Now of course
>I have a running setup with a dozen or so lists, and am afraid to go
>and overwrite stuff and break the lists.  (I already accidentally
>installed the new src RPM yesterday and overwrote my custom mailman.spec
>file from my 2.1.5 setup - thank goodness for daily backups).


You are talking about rpm stuff about which we may know nothing. If you
had originally installed from source with patches now were upgrading
from source with patches, we could be more helpful.

Perhaps someone else on this list has evperience with the exact
scenario you're looking at, but otherwise I don't think we can be too
helpful other than to say in general, the upgrade from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9
is pretty painless.


>Any caveats/gotchas/suggestions to look out for?  (So far I've already
>noticed from the old/new spec files that mmdir/varmmdir et al. have
>changed from "/var/mailman" to "/{usr,var}/lib/${name}", for example.)


See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2004-October/017343.html>
for more on these RedHat specific changes.

Note that we've been told that there is a script that installs with the
later RedHat rpms that will migrate your data to the new locations.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Nov 22 03:50:14 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:50:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006112108475601253eaa2f15@msapiro>
References: <PC17602006112108475601253eaa2f15@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240504c1896b3f8394@[10.0.1.11]>

At 8:47 AM -0800 11/21/06, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>>  I already tried that.  Didn't seem to work.
>
>  Did you restart Mailman?  Archiving keeps an in-memory template cache
>  which needs to be refreshed by a restart.

Crap.  No, I didn't restart.

You'd think that after several years of administering Mailman, I'd 
remember stuff like that.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Nov 22 03:53:14 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:53:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006112109191600933eaa2ecd@msapiro>
References: <PC17602006112109191600933eaa2ecd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240505c1896b819301@[10.0.1.11]>

At 9:19 AM -0800 11/21/06, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  However, I see no change on the TOC or monthly index pages. Brad, which
>  template(s) did you change? The main one is archtocnombox.html, not
>  archtoc.html which is only used if there is a link to the global mbox
>  (mm_cfg.PUBLIC_MBOX is True which it isn't for the mail.python.org
>  lists).

I copied all the arch*.html template files to the mailman-users/en 
directory, edited and renamed the local archtocnombox.html to 
archtoc.html (after renaming the local archtoc.html file to something 
else), and then did the arch --wipe command.

What I didn't do was to restart Mailman.  And I didn't check the 
mm_cfg.py setting.


Blargh.  You'd think that I'd know to check these things.  I mean, I 
have been doing this a while.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From vyom.asterisk at gmail.com  Wed Nov 22 05:54:53 2006
From: vyom.asterisk at gmail.com (vyom asterisk)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 10:24:53 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Freepbx querries
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00611210702y3354eb0ayd349b478da265739@mail.gmail.com>
References: <64522100611210316sb411434mf1b4cd7626553cf@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00611210702y3354eb0ayd349b478da265739@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <64522100611212054w5603c537k571a0a32acfcf9e6@mail.gmail.com>

I have resently joined this mailing list ,
Plz suggest mailig list if you can ,
It will be a great help

thnks


On 11/21/06, Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> In case you didn't already realize this- this is not the correct
> mailing list to be posting these questions to.
>
> On 11/21/06, vyom asterisk <vyom.asterisk at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi!
> > These are the querries related to Freepbx-
> > 1. How does Asterisk interact with Freepbx?
> > 2. What is the exact finction of Freepbx?
> > 3. How can we load additional modules in Freepbx(other than the core
> > module)?
> > 4. Which password do we put in the ARI interface of recordings?
> > 5. What exactly are custom trunks used for?
> > 6. What is parking lotand call parking?
> >
> > It would be great if these querries are resolved.
> >
> > Thanks and Regards,
> > Vyom Asterisk.
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>
> > Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
> >
> > Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp>
> >
>
>
> --
> - Patrick Bogen
>

From vyom.asterisk at gmail.com  Wed Nov 22 06:20:50 2006
From: vyom.asterisk at gmail.com (vyom asterisk)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 10:50:50 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] could add modules to Freepbx
Message-ID: <64522100611212120o5540a1a8xec3fbfbf0bb24c04@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mail man Team

Please ,  suggest could add following modules to Freepbx
application.

1. Backup and restore
2. Featurecode admin
3. Follow me
4. IVR
5. Voice mail
6. Recordings
7. Queues
8. Call forward
9. Call waiting

1. Backup and restore
2. Featurecode admin
3. Follow me
4. IVR
5. Voice mail
6. Recordings
7. Queues
8. Call forward
9. Call waiting

Asterisk Implementation Team

From vyom.asterisk at gmail.com  Wed Nov 22 06:22:27 2006
From: vyom.asterisk at gmail.com (vyom asterisk)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 10:52:27 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how could we add following modules to Freepbx
Message-ID: <64522100611212122u3bd0033cl4ee4b2786d049950@mail.gmail.com>

Please  suggest
how could add following modules to Freepbx
application.

1. Backup and restore
2. Featurecode admin
3. Follow me
4. IVR
5. Voice mail
6. Recordings
7. Queues
8. Call forward
9. Call waiting

Asterisk implementation Team

From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Wed Nov 22 06:44:38 2006
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 23:44:38 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] could add modules to Freepbx
In-Reply-To: <64522100611212120o5540a1a8xec3fbfbf0bb24c04@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C1893FE6.31599%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 11/21/06 11:20 PM, vyom asterisk at vyom.asterisk at gmail.com wrote:

> Hi Mail man Team
> 
> Please ,  suggest could add following modules to Freepbx
> application.

You've already been told this list has nothing to with Freepbx and asterisk.
I've never heard of them and I doubt many other people here have. This list
is exclusively for the support of Mailman which is mailing list software.

If someone suggested to you this is the place to ask about Freepbx, they're
wrong. You need to find an appropriate support forum on your own.

-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/



From vyom.asterisk at gmail.com  Wed Nov 22 06:23:12 2006
From: vyom.asterisk at gmail.com (vyom asterisk)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 21:23:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] vyom asterisk wants to chat
Message-ID: <64522100611212123v226c49dj@mail.gmail.com>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

vyom asterisk wants to stay in better touch using some of Google's coolest new
products.

If you already have Gmail or Google Talk, visit:
http://mail.google.com/mail/b-548fd9f132-c56d53e660-ac9a96b849541a58
You'll need to click this link to be able to chat with vyom asterisk.

To get Gmail - a free email account from Google with over 2,600 megabytes of
storage - and chat with vyom asterisk, visit:
http://mail.google.com/mail/a-548fd9f132-c56d53e660-f41532e5e4

Gmail offers:
- Powerful spam protection
- Built-in search for finding your messages and a helpful way of organizing
  emails into "conversations"
- No pop-up ads or untargeted banners - just text ads and related information
  that are relevant to the content of your messages
- Instant messaging capabilities right inside Gmail

All this, and its yours for free. But wait, there's more! You can also get
Google Talk:

http://www.google.com/talk/

Its a small Windows* download that lets you make free calls to your friends
through your computer. It's simple and clutter-free, and it works with any
computer speaker and microphone.

Gmail and Google Talk are still in beta. We're working hard to add new features
and make improvements, so we might also ask for your comments and suggestions
periodically. We appreciate your help in making our products even better!

Thanks,
The Google Team

To learn more about Gmail and Google Talk, visit:
http://mail.google.com/mail/help/about.html
http://www.google.com/talk/about.html

(If clicking the URLs in this message does not work, copy and paste them into
the address bar of your browser).

* Not a Windows user? No problem. You can also connect to the Google
Talk service from any platform using third-party clients
(http://www.google.com/talk/otherclients.html).

From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Wed Nov 22 07:00:39 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 22:00:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Freepbx querries
In-Reply-To: <64522100611212054w5603c537k571a0a32acfcf9e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C1892787.1017A%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 11/21/06 8:54 PM, "vyom asterisk" <vyom.asterisk at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have resently joined this mailing list ,
> Plz suggest mailig list if you can ,
> It will be a great help
> 
> thnks

Suggest you look at the left side of <http://www.freepbx.org/>.

Near the top is "FreePBX Forums" which looks promising.
Near the bottom (just above the long skinny ad) is a blog.

And under "Useful Links" there is "Asterisk Tutorials".

  --John


  



From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Wed Nov 22 09:03:03 2006
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 09:03:03 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscription only via email?
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.64.0611220900320.3568@192.168.11.51>

Hello,

Because I cannot offer http access to the machine where mailman is 
installed, I wonder if I can set the subscription process so that it is 
available only through email. I understand I will have to edit some 
templates with email texts (suggestions which would be welcome though 
hopefully I will find them) but should I take anything else into 
considertaion?

Thank you

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Wed Nov 22 14:49:23 2006
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:49:23 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] encoding problem
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.64.0611221441550.20451@192.168.11.51>

Hello,

I have a strange problem but it only affects Outlook. Whenever I send 
something to a test list that I created, Outlook displays it in iso-8859-2 
encoding but the characterset is wrong. But when I change the display in 
outlook to Central Europe (ISO), the text is displayed correctly.

Has anyone else had this problem? Is there something that can be done 
about it. Strangely, even when I send this message to yahoo, hotmail and 
so. No problem with a proper display in a browser.

If anyone can offer any advice, I would be truly thankful!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov 22 17:05:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 08:05:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and UTF8
In-Reply-To: <36850.141.33.55.114.1164130154.squirrel@secure.the-pojs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611220805440625d2d9197d@msapiro>

Jan Kohnert wrote:
>
>So I found out, I have to encode the german mailman.po file in UTF-8 and
>then rebuild the *.mo out of it. Now it works, so I can provide this
>version (to large for this list to attach it). (Mailman 2.1.9_rc1).


I18n issues like the above are better discussed on the mailman-i18n
list <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-i18n>.


>But there is one (small) thing left:
>If you look in [1] you will notice one incorrectly displayed character
>(the ---next part---, in German ---n=E4chster Teil--- does not work in all
>cases ([1] does not work, [2] does), altough all my editors say, the
>umlaut is correctly declared...


It looks like in [1] somehow the utf-8 encoded message got interpreted
as some other character set (maybe iso-8859-1) and then got encoded
again as utf-8 so that instead if the a with umlaut, you see the bytes
of the utf-8 encoding of a with umulaut displayed as characters.

This may be a scrubber issue of some kind, but I am not sure why it
would occur with only one of two apparently structurally identical
messages from the same poster, but here is a clue.

I looked at the text file
<https://secure.the-pojs.dyndns.org/pipermail/pojs-discussion/2006-November.txt>.
While there are no Content-Type: headers in that file, I can see the
encoding of the Subject: header. It appears that the 'bad' posts are
'original' posts and are iso-8859-1 encoded by the poster's (you) MUA,
and the 'good' posts are 'replies' and are utf-8 encoded by the MUA.

Thus it appears that there may be a scrubber issue when the character
set of the incoming message is iso-8859-1 but the i18n translated
canned messages are utf-8.

What mailman version is this?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kremels at kreme.com  Thu Nov 23 01:19:32 2006
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:19:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <p06240504c1896b3f8394@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <PC17602006112108475601253eaa2f15@msapiro>
	<p06240504c1896b3f8394@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <3F2A3184-3961-4431-9D61-7848044AE191@kreme.com>

On 21-Nov-2006, at 19:50, Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 8:47 AM -0800 11/21/06, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>>  I already tried that.  Didn't seem to work.
>>
>>  Did you restart Mailman?  Archiving keeps an in-memory template  
>> cache
>>  which needs to be refreshed by a restart.
>
> Crap.  No, I didn't restart.
>
> You'd think that after several years of administering Mailman, I'd
> remember stuff like that.

Why?  how often do you restart mailman?

If you're like me, the last time I actually restarted mailman was  
around 1999.... :)

-- 
I'm no psychologist (although I play one when I'm picking up chicks  
over by the asylum)



From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Thu Nov 23 05:28:57 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 20:28:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscription only via email?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.64.0611220900320.3568@192.168.11.51>
Message-ID: <C18A6389.101B0%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 11/22/06 12:03 AM, "Zbigniew Szalbot" <zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org>
wrote:

> Because I cannot offer http access to the machine where mailman is
> installed, I wonder if I can set the subscription process so that it is
> available only through email. I understand I will have to edit some
> templates with email texts (suggestions which would be welcome though
> hopefully I will find them) but should I take anything else into
> considertaion?

In your situation, it may make more sense to use a mailing list manager
written to be "driven" from email, such as Majordomo.  Mailman--as a
reaction to the problems some people found with the Majordomo way--was
designed to be driven from the web, with a few email commands tossed in to
make former Majordomo users feel more at home.

After we switched our lists from Majordomo to Mailman, I stopped following
progress--if any--on Majordomo.  There could well be better choices around.

  --John



From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Nov 23 06:00:45 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 23:00:45 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail
In-Reply-To: <3F2A3184-3961-4431-9D61-7848044AE191@kreme.com>
References: <PC17602006112108475601253eaa2f15@msapiro>
	<p06240504c1896b3f8394@[10.0.1.11]>
	<3F2A3184-3961-4431-9D61-7848044AE191@kreme.com>
Message-ID: <p06240500c18adae9ca72@[10.0.1.11]>

At 5:19 PM -0700 11/22/06, LuKreme wrote:

>>  You'd think that after several years of administering Mailman, I'd
>>  remember stuff like that.
>
>  Why?  how often do you restart mailman?

Normally, you don't restart it too often.  But there are certain 
times, such as after changing an entry in the configuration file, 
changing templates, etc... after which you need to restart Mailman.

Otherwise, you'd only normally need to restart it after upgrading the software.

>  If you're like me, the last time I actually restarted mailman was
>  around 1999.... :)

I think we probably restart Mailman a little more frequently than 
that, because we track the current version pretty closely, and we 
usually have at least one or two releases per year.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Thu Nov 23 11:27:04 2006
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 11:27:04 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error: wrong virtual host
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.64.0611231053001.11019@192.168.11.51>

Hello,

I looked at the archives but I could not find a solution.

When I set up mailman I created it under a different domain and now are 
changing it to the one I want to be using.

So I did three things:
1. I modified mm_cfg.py to relect the new domain
2. I ran withlist -l -r fix_url list-name -u new-domain
3. I restarted mailman

I was unable to create a new list under this new domain - I was constantly 
getting errors about wrong/unknown host.

Eventually I was able to create the list by typing LAN IP address of the 
mailman machine/mailman/create. However the drawback is that in such a 
case mailman sends the list notification as 
list_name-bounces at LAN_IP_ADDRESS.

What can I do to fix it?

Thanks!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Thu Nov 23 11:36:51 2006
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 11:36:51 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] encoding problem
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.64.0611221441550.20451@192.168.11.51>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.64.0611221441550.20451@192.168.11.51>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.64.0611231133540.12610@192.168.11.51>

Hello,

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have a strange problem but it only affects Outlook. Whenever I send
> something to a test list that I created, Outlook displays it in iso-8859-2
> encoding but the characterset is wrong. But when I change the display in
> outlook to Central Europe (ISO), the text is displayed correctly.

I now know what caused this problem but do not know the real source of it. 
I created this faulty list by using:

bin/config_list -i data/sitelist.cfg name_of_the_list

When I deleted the list and re-created it using web browser, everything 
works fine. Bug or a feature?

Thanks!


-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

From nospam001-lists at jankoh.dyndns.org  Thu Nov 23 14:18:48 2006
From: nospam001-lists at jankoh.dyndns.org (Jan Kohnert)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 14:18:48 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and UTF8
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611220805440625d2d9197d@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200611220805440625d2d9197d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <39402.141.33.55.114.1164287928.squirrel@secure.the-pojs.dyndns.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Mark Sapiro schrieb:
> Jan Kohnert wrote:
>>
>>So I found out, I have to encode the german mailman.po file in UTF-8 and
>>then rebuild the *.mo out of it. Now it works, so I can provide this
>>version (to large for this list to attach it). (Mailman 2.1.9_rc1).
>
>
> I18n issues like the above are better discussed on the mailman-i18n
> list <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-i18n>.

Agreed, so I'm crossposting this one for References in the I18N list.
Followups please on that list.

>>But there is one (small) thing left:
>>If you look in [1] you will notice one incorrectly displayed character
>>(the ---next part---, in German ---n=E4chster Teil--- does not work in
>> all
>>cases ([1] does not work, [2] does), altough all my editors say, the
>>umlaut is correctly declared...
>
>
> It looks like in [1] somehow the utf-8 encoded message got interpreted
> as some other character set (maybe iso-8859-1) and then got encoded
> again as utf-8 so that instead if the a with umlaut, you see the bytes
> of the utf-8 encoding of a with umulaut displayed as characters.
>
> This may be a scrubber issue of some kind, but I am not sure why it
> would occur with only one of two apparently structurally identical
> messages from the same poster, but here is a clue.
>
> I looked at the text file
> <https://secure.the-pojs.dyndns.org/pipermail/pojs-discussion/2006-November.txt>.
> While there are no Content-Type: headers in that file, I can see the
> encoding of the Subject: header. It appears that the 'bad' posts are
> 'original' posts and are iso-8859-1 encoded by the poster's (you) MUA,
> and the 'good' posts are 'replies' and are utf-8 encoded by the MUA.
>
> Thus it appears that there may be a scrubber issue when the character
> set of the incoming message is iso-8859-1 but the i18n translated
> canned messages are utf-8.
>
> What mailman version is this?

Leaving your comment completely in heare for reference; as said above,
this is v2.1.9.

Regards Jan


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From Newnetllc at aol.com  Thu Nov 23 15:38:00 2006
From: Newnetllc at aol.com (Newnetllc at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 09:38:00 EST
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 33, Issue 53
Message-ID: <cef.26ebd09.32970c48@aol.com>

 

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov 23 18:32:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 09:32:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error: wrong virtual host
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.64.0611231053001.11019@192.168.11.51>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611230932280609e8c570dd@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>So I did three things:
>1. I modified mm_cfg.py to relect the new domain

How?

>2. I ran withlist -l -r fix_url list-name -u new-domain
>3. I restarted mailman
>
>I was unable to create a new list under this new domain - I was constantly 
>getting errors about wrong/unknown host.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>

Once you have DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_HOST set correctly in
mm_cfg.py and you have cleared the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary and added
the correct add_virtualhost() directive(s), you should be able to
create new lists and run fix_url to fix the list with the numeric IP
host names.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov 23 18:46:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 09:46:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] encoding problem
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.64.0611231133540.12610@192.168.11.51>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611230946440344e8c56fe4@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>>
>> I have a strange problem but it only affects Outlook. Whenever I send
>> something to a test list that I created, Outlook displays it in iso-8859-2
>> encoding but the characterset is wrong. But when I change the display in
>> outlook to Central Europe (ISO), the text is displayed correctly.
>
>I now know what caused this problem but do not know the real source of it. 
>I created this faulty list by using:
>
>bin/config_list -i data/sitelist.cfg name_of_the_list
>
>When I deleted the list and re-created it using web browser, everything 
>works fine. Bug or a feature?


Since I have no idea what the underlying problem was, I have no idea
whether there is a bug here or not and whether or not the bug, if any,
is in Mailman or Outlook.

However, bin/config_list does not create lists. It only modifies their
configurations so you must have created 'name_of_the_list' via the web
interface or via bin/newlist before running config_list.

Further, the file sitelist.cfg is intended to be used only to configure
the site ('mailman') list with settings that are more appropriate for
the site list than are the default list settings. It is not intended
to be used to configure other lists.

Perhaps if you use 'bin/config_list -o' to dump the configuration of
the now working list, and compare that to sitelist.cfg, you might get
some clues as to what may have caused this, although I can't see
anything other than 'language' settings (either list or user) having
an effect.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at python.org  Thu Nov 23 19:27:56 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 13:27:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscription only via email?
In-Reply-To: <C18A6389.101B0%jwblist3@olympus.net>
References: <C18A6389.101B0%jwblist3@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <9F2BCACF-8ED4-41F2-8448-E7A06857B360@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Nov 22, 2006, at 11:28 PM, John W. Baxter wrote:

> In your situation, it may make more sense to use a mailing list  
> manager
> written to be "driven" from email, such as Majordomo.  Mailman--as a
> reaction to the problems some people found with the Majordomo way--was
> designed to be driven from the web, with a few email commands  
> tossed in to
> make former Majordomo users feel more at home.

Although let me add that it is a goal of mine for MM2.2 to expand the  
drive-ability of Mailman via email to be as close to as powerful as  
the web interface as possible.  Limiting factors ought to be security  
considerations and usability, not (as is often the case now) that  
implementation details caused too much functionality to reside  
inaccessibly in the web support code.

- -Barry

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From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov 23 19:39:24 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 10:39:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and UTF8
In-Reply-To: <39402.141.33.55.114.1164287928.squirrel@secure.the-pojs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611231039240516ac10d3bc@msapiro>

Jan Kohnert wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro schrieb:
>>
>> Thus it appears that there may be a scrubber issue when the character
>> set of the incoming message is iso-8859-1 but the i18n translated
>> canned messages are utf-8.
>>
>> What mailman version is this?
>
>Leaving your comment completely in heare for reference; as said above,
>this is v2.1.9.

Sorry, somehow I overlooked your mention of the version in the OP.

Anyway, this is definitely a scrubber issue. I see why it occurs, but
I'm not yet sure how to fix it. The problem is when the character set
of the translation returned by

  _('-------------- next part --------------\n')

is not compatible with the character set of the message being scrubbed,
the translation can be garbled.

I think we should be using the character set of the list's preferred
language rather than the character set of the message in this case,
but the process is complicated and I'm not sure how to do it.

If you want, you can try the attached scrubber.patch.txt (apply to
Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061123/ad3c9e8a/attachment.txt 

From jason at dixongroup.net  Fri Nov 24 00:27:25 2006
From: jason at dixongroup.net (Jason Dixon)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 18:27:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman migration
Message-ID: <3D429399-202A-4D45-8A79-A541142E1057@dixongroup.net>

I'm migrating the Mailman 2.1.5 installation on a RHEL server to  
Mailman 2.1.8 on OpenBSD.  I transferred all of the files in /var/ 
spool/mailman over and checked permissions and symlinks.  I've  
recreated all of the aliases on each server, as well as all of the  
Apache settings for mailman and pipermail.  Is there anything I might  
be overlooking in the Mailman installation directory (/usr/local/ 
mailman on RHEL, /usr/local/lib/mailman on OpenBSD)?

Thanks in advance,

--
Jason Dixon
DixonGroup Consulting
http://www.dixongroup.net




From xt3 at cccmz.de  Fri Nov 24 01:13:14 2006
From: xt3 at cccmz.de (Stephan Jennewein)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 01:13:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shunting Problem
Message-ID: <1164327194.22955.1.camel@lisa>

Hi,

Today I got the following problem with one of my maillinglists.
Unshunt didn't help because the mails are allways ending up in
qfiles/shunt. Is there a solution to this problem ?

Greets
Stephan

Nov 24 00:16:05 2006 (10169) Uncaught runner exception: us-ascii
Nov 24 00:16:05 2006 (10169) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
_dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
_dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 92, in
process
    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 133, in
send_digests
    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 315, in
send_i18n_digests
    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 379, in
process
    msg.set_payload(sep.join(text), charset)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/email/Message.py", line 218, in set_payload
    self.set_charset(charset)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/email/Message.py", line 242, in set_charset
    raise TypeError(charset)
TypeError: us-ascii

Nov 24 00:16:05 2006 (10169) SHUNTING: 1164323765.2546699
+628864c581b16afb569997ef9ff416b5537b5f13
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From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Nov 24 04:19:17 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 21:19:17 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman migration
In-Reply-To: <3D429399-202A-4D45-8A79-A541142E1057@dixongroup.net>
References: <3D429399-202A-4D45-8A79-A541142E1057@dixongroup.net>
Message-ID: <p06240500c18c14f032c5@[10.0.1.11]>

At 6:27 PM -0500 11/23/06, Jason Dixon wrote:

>  I'm migrating the Mailman 2.1.5 installation on a RHEL server to
>  Mailman 2.1.8 on OpenBSD.

Version 2.1.8 had some serious security and operational problems.  If 
you're going to migrate, make sure you migrate to the latest version 
(2.1.9).

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 24 07:25:51 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 22:25:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shunting Problem
In-Reply-To: <1164327194.22955.1.camel@lisa>
Message-ID: <PC176020061123222551056246cd3ae5@msapiro>

Stephan Jennewein wrote:
>
>Today I got the following problem with one of my maillinglists.
>Unshunt didn't help because the mails are allways ending up in
>qfiles/shunt. Is there a solution to this problem ?
>
>Greets
>Stephan
>
>Nov 24 00:16:05 2006 (10169) Uncaught runner exception: us-ascii
>Nov 24 00:16:05 2006 (10169) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
>_dispose
>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
>_dopipeline
>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 92, in
>process
>    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 133, in
>send_digests
>    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 315, in
>send_i18n_digests
>    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 379, in
>process
>    msg.set_payload(sep.join(text), charset)
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/email/Message.py", line 218, in set_payload
>    self.set_charset(charset)
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/email/Message.py", line 242, in set_charset
>    raise TypeError(charset)
>TypeError: us-ascii
>
>Nov 24 00:16:05 2006 (10169) SHUNTING: 1164323765.2546699
>+628864c581b16afb569997ef9ff416b5537b5f13


There is a similar report, as yet unresolved, at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-November/054246.html>.

One problem in your case is the traceback above indicates you are
getting the 'email' package from /usr/lib/python2.4/ whereas you
should be getting it from /var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/. There should be
a /var/lib/mailman/bin/paths.py module which is imported by
bin/mailmanctl and by bin/qrunner and which contains among other things

# We also need the pythonlib directory on the path to pick up any
overrides of
# standard modules and packages.  Note that these must go at the front
of the
# path for this reason.
sys.path.insert(0, os.path.join(prefix, 'pythonlib'))

Is this the case?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 24 07:40:47 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 22:40:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman migration
In-Reply-To: <3D429399-202A-4D45-8A79-A541142E1057@dixongroup.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611232240470703fc9f96ee@msapiro>

Jason Dixon wrote:

>I'm migrating the Mailman 2.1.5 installation on a RHEL server to  
>Mailman 2.1.8 on OpenBSD.  I transferred all of the files in /var/ 
>spool/mailman over and checked permissions and symlinks.  I've  
>recreated all of the aliases on each server, as well as all of the  
>Apache settings for mailman and pipermail.  Is there anything I might  
>be overlooking in the Mailman installation directory (/usr/local/ 
>mailman on RHEL, /usr/local/lib/mailman on OpenBSD)?


You definitely want the lists/ and archives/ directories and their
contents. This is the main thing. I suspect all that's in
/var/spool/mailman/ is the queue directories and that these will be in
/usr/local/lib/mailman/qfiles/ in the OpenBSD installation, and if the
system is quiescent when you migrate, they will be empty anyway. You
may also want the heldmsg-*, site.pw and creator.pw files from the
data/ directory.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mathias.andre at gmail.com  Fri Nov 24 08:39:47 2006
From: mathias.andre at gmail.com (Mathias Andre)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 08:39:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and (really) large lists
Message-ID: <22b0f2200611232339l27b6f2a3veeb34e37d3a81dfe@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

The organisation I work for is in the process of migrating our
currentmailing lists (using majordomo) to Mailman.
In parallel of this migration we have been ask to set up a very large
mailing list: between 15000 to 25000 users. This would be a moderated
list (actually more like some kind of newsletter).

I was wondering how well would mailman cope with such a large list.
Has any of you done anything similar?
I'm open to any suggestions and recommendations, would you recommend
using Mailman or simply using aliases?

Thank you in advance,

Mathias

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Fri Nov 24 09:06:32 2006
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 09:06:32 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and (really) large lists
In-Reply-To: <22b0f2200611232339l27b6f2a3veeb34e37d3a81dfe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <22b0f2200611232339l27b6f2a3veeb34e37d3a81dfe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20061124080632.GP5979@charite.de>

* Mathias Andre <mathias.andre at gmail.com>:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> The organisation I work for is in the process of migrating our
> currentmailing lists (using majordomo) to Mailman.
> In parallel of this migration we have been ask to set up a very large
> mailing list: between 15000 to 25000 users. This would be a moderated
> list (actually more like some kind of newsletter).

We have 10.000 users, but they all live insoide our organisation.
 
> I was wondering how well would mailman cope with such a large list.
> Has any of you done anything similar?
> I'm open to any suggestions and recommendations, would you recommend
> using Mailman or simply using aliases?

You definitely want an MLM for bounce processing!

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                    send no mail to plonk at charite.de

From ken at lookaroundcornwall.com  Fri Nov 24 12:28:22 2006
From: ken at lookaroundcornwall.com (Ken McMahon)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:28:22 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message body is scrambled in archive
Message-ID: <009b01c70fbb$a66c12b0$0302a8c0@P4Tower>

All of a sudden (I must have changed something, but I don't know what) the
message body in my archives is scrambled
 
It actually says this
 
multipart/mixed
multipart/alternative
text/plain
 
When I cut and paste it somewhere else.
 
Can someone give me a gentle nudge in the right direction and explain to me
what I might have f*&>ed up?
 
Thanks
 
Ken

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.14/548 - Release Date: 23/11/2006
 

From ken at lookaroundcornwall.com  Fri Nov 24 12:31:53 2006
From: ken at lookaroundcornwall.com (Ken McMahon)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:31:53 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message body is scrambled in archive
In-Reply-To: <009b01c70fbb$a66c12b0$0302a8c0@P4Tower>
Message-ID: <00a001c70fbc$24372310$0302a8c0@P4Tower>

Scrub that, it doesn't say anything that makes sense, just

"????z??`?,?J??i??0?Z(????w\???jY\?o??k(??
??e??.?i?v+?zf???fr??z{

Whatever I do with it.

Ken

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
lookaroundcornwall.com 
360 degree fullscreen interactive panoramas from Cornwall


-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+ken=lookaroundcornwall.com at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+ken=lookaroundcornwall.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Ken McMahon
Sent: 24 November 2006 11:28
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message body is scrambled in archive


All of a sudden (I must have changed something, but I don't know what) the message body in my archives is scrambled
 
It actually says this
 
multipart/mixed
multipart/alternative
text/plain
 
When I cut and paste it somewhere else.
 
Can someone give me a gentle nudge in the right direction and explain to me what I might have f*&>ed up?
 
Thanks
 
Ken

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.14/548 - Release Date: 23/11/2006
 
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ken%40lookaroundcornwall.com

Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.14/548 - Release Date: 23/11/2006
 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.14/548 - Release Date: 23/11/2006
 


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 24 17:08:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 08:08:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message body is scrambled in archive
In-Reply-To: <00a001c70fbc$24372310$0302a8c0@P4Tower>
Message-ID: <PC17602006112408085401092c7d2f03@msapiro>

Ken McMahon wrote:

>Scrub that, it doesn't say anything that makes sense, just
>
>"?????????z?????`??,??J?????i????0??Z(?????????w\??????jY\??o????k(????
????e?????.??i??v+??zf???????fr?????z{
>
>Whatever I do with it.


Try changing the character encoding in your browser to UTF-8 when
you're viewing that page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 24 17:12:19 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 08:12:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and (really) large lists
In-Reply-To: <22b0f2200611232339l27b6f2a3veeb34e37d3a81dfe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611240812190031c21445b2@msapiro>

Mathias Andre wrote:
>
>I was wondering how well would mailman cope with such a large list.
>Has any of you done anything similar?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.015.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Nov 24 18:31:52 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:31:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and (really) large lists
In-Reply-To: <22b0f2200611232339l27b6f2a3veeb34e37d3a81dfe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <22b0f2200611232339l27b6f2a3veeb34e37d3a81dfe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240500c18cdcba393a@[10.0.1.11]>

At 8:39 AM +0100 11/24/06, Mathias Andre wrote:

>  In parallel of this migration we have been ask to set up a very large
>  mailing list: between 15000 to 25000 users. This would be a moderated
>  list (actually more like some kind of newsletter).
>
>  I was wondering how well would mailman cope with such a large list.

Check the FAQ.  15,000-25,000 is only a moderately large mailing 
list, as far as Mailman is concerned.

>  Has any of you done anything similar?

Check the FAQ.  There's lots of good stuff there.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From szybalski at gmail.com  Fri Nov 24 20:35:17 2006
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 13:35:17 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006111012480103907e0ed5e7@msapiro>
References: <804e5c70611100730u67b82e49t8cebcb4e177f76f2@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602006111012480103907e0ed5e7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <804e5c70611241135r4f37faaegdf6d862cc03d9665@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/10/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
> >
> >Please not the smtlib.py is the one given to me and smtlib.py.1 is the
> >original one causing the problem.
> >I posted the whole file to debian bug report also.
>
>
> Your diff and the smtplib.py (the file you refer to above as
> smtplib.py.1) you posted to the bug report confirm that this file is
> essentially unchanged from the Python 2.3 base smtplib.py.
>
> Therefore, I have to conclude that the symptom you see when you put
> this in the Python library is due to the debug writes being to stdout
> instead of stderr.
>
> Thus, I think you still have the added
>
>         self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1)
>
> line in SMTPDirect.py. I think if you remove this line and then put the
> original smtplib.py back in the python library (and to be sure, remove
> the smtplib.pyc and smtplib.pyo to force a recompile), Mailman will
> continue to send OK.
>
> If this is the case, the original problem will have magically
> disappeared. The only reason I can think of for this is that the
> update that caused the problem may have had a corrupted smtplib.pyc
> and/or smtplib.pyo.

I just put back the original file, removed debug
level line, and everything seems to be working.
I guess the bug is solved for me.

Thank you very much for your help.
Sincerely,
Lukasz Szybalski

-Signoff-

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Fri Nov 24 21:44:01 2006
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 21:44:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web interface to sync_members
Message-ID: <20061124204401.GU16101@charite.de>

I noticed that the feature request (which just arose here as well the
other day) for a Web interface to sync_members is still open.

Does anybody have a patch for that functionality?

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                    send no mail to plonk at charite.de

From stanley at chen.com.hk  Sat Nov 25 08:45:40 2006
From: stanley at chen.com.hk (Stanley Chen)
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 15:45:40 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I sent out a mailing,
	how can I know it's done or not?
Message-ID: <4567F4A4.20109@chen.com.hk>

We have a list running 100,000+ email addresses, and we broadcasted a
message. How can we find out if all messages are successfully sent, or
still in queue? If still in queue, how many message left to be sent?

Pls kindly suggest.

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Sat Nov 25 13:38:24 2006
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 13:38:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I sent out a mailing,
	how can I know it's done or not?
In-Reply-To: <4567F4A4.20109@chen.com.hk>
References: <4567F4A4.20109@chen.com.hk>
Message-ID: <20061125123824.GG18264@charite.de>

* Stanley Chen <stanley at chen.com.hk>:

> We have a list running 100,000+ email addresses, and we broadcasted a
> message. How can we find out if all messages are successfully sent, or
> still in queue? If still in queue, how many message left to be sent?

Look into the queue of your MTA
Usually the "mailq" does the trick (sendmail, postfix)

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                    send no mail to plonk at charite.de

From antennex at swbell.net  Sat Nov 25 15:37:00 2006
From: antennex at swbell.net (Jack Stone)
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 06:37:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and (really) large lists
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c18cdcba393a@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <20061125143700.7588.qmail@web82412.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

As one stat, one of my lists of 10,000 is usually completed within 24 mins. I usually drop all filter scans during that time, plus I use 20 separate mail queues (sendmail) so too many don't pile up in a single queue and has to start over delaying send-outs. These 2 things have affected my speed more than anything else -- except maybe a custom footer which I avoid using.
  

Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
  At 8:39 AM +0100 11/24/06, Mathias Andre wrote:

> In parallel of this migration we have been ask to set up a very large
> mailing list: between 15000 to 25000 users. This would be a moderated
> list (actually more like some kind of newsletter).
>
> I was wondering how well would mailman cope with such a large list.

Check the FAQ. 15,000-25,000 is only a moderately large mailing 
list, as far as Mailman is concerned.

> Has any of you done anything similar?

Check the FAQ. There's lots of good stuff there.

-- 
Brad Knowles, 


Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006. If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.
------------------------------------------------------
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(^-^)
Best regards,
Jack L. Stone

From antennex at swbell.net  Sat Nov 25 15:41:20 2006
From: antennex at swbell.net (Jack Stone)
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 06:41:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I sent out a mailing,
	how can I know it's done or not?
In-Reply-To: <20061125123824.GG18264@charite.de>
Message-ID: <20061125144120.62158.qmail@web82409.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I usually look in ~mailman/qfiles/out and when I see "0", that's good enough for me, although I know there may be some stragglers in the MTA mail queues. But, MM is through with its part.

Ralf Hildebrandt <Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de> wrote:  * Stanley Chen :

> We have a list running 100,000+ email addresses, and we broadcasted a
> message. How can we find out if all messages are successfully sent, or
> still in queue? If still in queue, how many message left to be sent?

Look into the queue of your MTA
Usually the "mailq" does the trick (sendmail, postfix)

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums) Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin Tel. +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin Fax. +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF send no mail to plonk at charite.de
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(^-^)
Best regards,
Jack L. Stone

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Nov 25 20:02:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 11:02:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I sent out a mailing,
	how can I know it's done or not?
In-Reply-To: <20061125144120.62158.qmail@web82409.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611251102330078d3de11ef@msapiro>

Jack Stone wrote:

>I usually look in ~mailman/qfiles/out and when I see "0", that's good enough for me, although I know there may be some stragglers in the MTA mail queues. But, MM is through with its part.


Prior to Mailman 2.1.9, the entry would be removed from the 'out' queue
at the start of delivery to the MTA. For a large list, there could be
some time before delivery to the MTA is complete. Beginning with
2.1.9, there will be a .bak file in the 'out' queue while delivery to
the MTA is in process.

You can look in Mailman's 'smtp' log for the "<message-id> smtp
for nnn recips, completed in tt.ttt seconds" message. When that message
is logged, Mailman's delivery to the MTA is complete. Prior to the
logging of that message, there's no way to know how close to done
Mailman is.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Sat Nov 25 20:18:14 2006
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:18:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and (really) large lists
In-Reply-To: <20061125143700.7588.qmail@web82412.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <p06240500c18cdcba393a@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061125143700.7588.qmail@web82412.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20061125191814.GS18264@charite.de>

* Jack Stone <antennex at swbell.net>:

> As one stat, one of my lists of 10,000 is usually completed within
> 24 mins. I usually drop all filter scans during that time,

I don't do that. I have a special port on my MTA that only allows
Mailman to connect to it and mail coming in that way is not being
filtered.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                    send no mail to plonk at charite.de

From scott at fyrenice.com  Sat Nov 25 20:43:52 2006
From: scott at fyrenice.com (Dr. Scott S. Jones)
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 12:43:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new list, slammed and hosed...
Message-ID: <20061125194352.GA26750@xmission.com>

I recently reopened a list for my wife's business. I have a few of my own
lists. I NEVER get any unsolicited postings to my list, which has been up a
few weeks, yet after 2 days of starting my wife's list, I am getting
spammed, hosed and slammed by all sorts of dubious posts. 

Is there something that should be set in Privacy or otherwise, in my list
versus the wife's new list, that it allowing all the crap in? 

Finally, both lists are moderated. What if i opened up my wife's list, and
just let anyone post any old thing to it. Could opening it expose my server,
upon which it runs, to danger, hacking, and other attack? 

Please advise. 

Scott

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From msapiro at value.net  Sat Nov 25 23:32:57 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 14:32:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new list, slammed and hosed...
In-Reply-To: <20061125194352.GA26750@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061125143257006207d3c4d7@msapiro>

Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote:
>
>I recently reopened a list for my wife's business. I have a few of my own
>lists. I NEVER get any unsolicited postings to my list, which has been up a
>few weeks, yet after 2 days of starting my wife's list, I am getting
>spammed, hosed and slammed by all sorts of dubious posts.


Basically, all it takes is one list recipient's computer to be infected
with some spyware for the list addresses to start receiving mega spam.


>Is there something that should be set in Privacy or otherwise, in my list
>versus the wife's new list, that it allowing all the crap in?


Maybe, maybe not. If Privacy options...->Sender
filters->generic_nonmember_action is Reject or Discard on your lists
and Hold on your wife's, that could explain the difference.


>Finally, both lists are moderated. What if i opened up my wife's list, and
>just let anyone post any old thing to it. Could opening it expose my server,
>upon which it runs, to danger, hacking, and other attack?


Probably not, but why would you want to expose the list members to
these posts? Much better to just discard them.  Better still to catch
as many as possible in the incoming MTA and not accept them in the
first place.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From azher at niit.edu.pk  Sun Nov 26 19:41:32 2006
From: azher at niit.edu.pk (Azher Amin)
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 12:41:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Management
Message-ID: <4569DFDC.7040307@niit.edu.pk>

Hi there,

Can someone suggest a solution for the following situation for the lists 
having hundred of users:

ListA : userA1, userA2
ListB: userB1, userB2, userB3

userB1 is not a member of ListA, but both of the lists are hosted on the 
same domain under same administration and list members are allowed to 
interact. Is there anyway that userB1 without becoming the member of 
ListA can post message to ListA ?? Reason is that ListA is small and it 
is not desired that the messages posted  over here go to ListB.

Regards
-Azher


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From djk at tobit.co.uk  Sun Nov 26 23:45:04 2006
From: djk at tobit.co.uk (Dirk Koopman)
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 22:45:04 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman has just stopped sending out mail to all
	mailing lists
Message-ID: <1164581104.30466.16.camel@localhost>

After many years of using mailman, and having upgraded to 2.1.9 and
running that for a few weeks, all mailing lists have now stopped
delivering mail.

Never has this happened before. 

I have tried stopping and starting system using mailmanctl but nothing
happens. There are a load of files in qfiles/shunt and the error file
has an entry such as this for each one:-


Nov 26 23:21:11 2006 (5936) SHUNTING: 1162300907.5600309+1c331d7faf6a2e50689a211b17979b4a3d787b14
Nov 26 23:21:11 2006 (5936) Uncaught runner exception: 'str' object has no attribute 'get_sender'
Nov 26 23:21:11 2006 (5936) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 162, in _onefile
    sender = msg.get_sender()
AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'get_sender'

Tried doing a show_qfile and I get this:-

./show_qfiles ../qfiles/shunt/1162300907.5600309+1c331d7faf6a2e50689a211b17979b4a3d787b14.pck
====================> ../qfiles/shunt/1162300907.5600309+1c331d7faf6a2e50689a211b17979b4a3d787b14.pck
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./show_qfiles", line 95, in ?
    main()
  File "./show_qfiles", line 88, in main
    sys.stdout.write(msg.as_string())
AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'as_string'


The relevant .pck is attached.

But every single one has the same error.


 

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 27 01:09:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 16:09:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman has just stopped sending out mail to
	allmailing lists
In-Reply-To: <1164581104.30466.16.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC17602006112616093701713f0cc650@msapiro>

Dirk Koopman wrote:
>
>There are a load of files in qfiles/shunt and the error file
>has an entry such as this for each one:-
>
>
>Nov 26 23:21:11 2006 (5936) SHUNTING: 1162300907.5600309+1c331d7faf6a2e50689a211b17979b4a3d787b14
>Nov 26 23:21:11 2006 (5936) Uncaught runner exception: 'str' object has no attribute 'get_sender'
>Nov 26 23:21:11 2006 (5936) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 162, in _onefile
>    sender = msg.get_sender()
>AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'get_sender'
>
>Tried doing a show_qfile and I get this:-
>
>./show_qfiles ../qfiles/shunt/1162300907.5600309+1c331d7faf6a2e50689a211b17979b4a3d787b14.pck
>====================> ../qfiles/shunt/1162300907.5600309+1c331d7faf6a2e50689a211b17979b4a3d787b14.pck
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "./show_qfiles", line 95, in ?
>    main()
>  File "./show_qfiles", line 88, in main
>    sys.stdout.write(msg.as_string())
>AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'as_string'


You could try bin/dumpdb instead.


>The relevant .pck is attached.


And removed by content filtering.

See the entire thread containing
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-September/053556.html>
for some discussion and a workaround.

I would really like to understand why this is happening, but I'm not
sure if we can. Could you send me off-list one of the shunted .pck
files and copies of Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py and scripts/post.
I'll see what I can determine.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 27 01:20:00 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 16:20:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Management
In-Reply-To: <4569DFDC.7040307@niit.edu.pk>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611261620000937d6e76509@msapiro>

Azher Amin wrote:
>
>Can someone suggest a solution for the following situation for the lists 
>having hundred of users:
>
>ListA : userA1, userA2
>ListB: userB1, userB2, userB3
>
>userB1 is not a member of ListA, but both of the lists are hosted on the 
>same domain under same administration and list members are allowed to 
>interact. Is there anyway that userB1 without becoming the member of 
>ListA can post message to ListA ?? Reason is that ListA is small and it 
>is not desired that the messages posted  over here go to ListB.


You can add userB1 to ListA's accept_these_nonmembers, but I suspect
from your 'hundreds of users' remark that you want all of ListB's
members to be able to post to ListA.

In that case, see the patch at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>
which will enable you to put @listb in ListA's accept_these_nonmembers
to allow any member of ListB to post to ListA.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From azher at niit.edu.pk  Mon Nov 27 02:37:57 2006
From: azher at niit.edu.pk (Azher Amin)
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 19:37:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Management
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611261620000937d6e76509@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200611261620000937d6e76509@msapiro>
Message-ID: <456A4175.7080903@niit.edu.pk>

Thnx a lot for sending the patch link, I will try it.

Regards
-Azher

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Azher Amin wrote:
>   
>> Can someone suggest a solution for the following situation for the lists 
>> having hundred of users:
>>
>> ListA : userA1, userA2
>> ListB: userB1, userB2, userB3
>>
>> userB1 is not a member of ListA, but both of the lists are hosted on the 
>> same domain under same administration and list members are allowed to 
>> interact. Is there anyway that userB1 without becoming the member of 
>> ListA can post message to ListA ?? Reason is that ListA is small and it 
>> is not desired that the messages posted  over here go to ListB.
>>     
>
>
> You can add userB1 to ListA's accept_these_nonmembers, but I suspect
> from your 'hundreds of users' remark that you want all of ListB's
> members to be able to post to ListA.
>
> In that case, see the patch at
> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>
> which will enable you to put @listb in ListA's accept_these_nonmembers
> to allow any member of ListB to post to ListA.
>
>   


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From mcjathan1 at xmission.com  Mon Nov 27 03:15:17 2006
From: mcjathan1 at xmission.com (mcjathan)
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 19:15:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman Installation - Can't Send Email
 toaNew List (reformatted)
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611120902330546bc427fa3@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200611120902330546bc427fa3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <456A4A35.2070203@xmission.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> McJathan wrote:
>   
>> Here are the entries from our mm_cfg.py file:
>>
>>     from Defaults import
>>
>>     POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS=['domain1.net', 'domain2.net']
>>     MTA='Postfix'
>>     add_virtualhost('mail.domain1.net', 'domain1.net')
>>     MAILMAN_SITE_LIST='mailman'*
>>     
>
>
>
> Are the values for DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST from
> Defaults.py those for the domain2.net domain? If not, you need to set
> them in mm_cfg.py and clear the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary of the entry
> from Defaults.py and have add_virtualhost() lines for the default
> domain and each additional domain. See, e.g., the beginning of
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>.
>
> Also, it looks like 
>
>      add_virtualhost('mail.domain1.net', 'domain1.net')
>
> may be backwards - the web domain is first and the email domain is
> second.
>
> If you need to make changes to these in mm_cfg.py, you probably also
> need to run fix_url as described later in FAQ 4.29 or in
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>.
>
>
> The fact that you have nothing in virtual-mailman after running
> bin/genaliases and/or creating lists indicates you have no lists whose
> host_name attribute is in the POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS list.
>
>   
Hi Mark,

In reading your instructions through what I discovered was that 
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS was set to false like this:

   POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = []

I'm assuming this may be the entire problem.  Should this be set thusly?:

   POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['domain1.net', 'domain2.net']

If so, once I make the change, what do I need to do to properly populate 
virtual-mailman and generally re-initialize everything?

Regards, Jeff

From gwaugh at scu.edu.au  Mon Nov 27 03:00:47 2006
From: gwaugh at scu.edu.au (Guy Waugh)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:00:47 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Load-balancing mailman between two servers
Message-ID: <456A46CF.9060203@scu.edu.au>

Hi there,

I run Mailman 2.1.9 on two load-balanced RHEL3 servers. The load
balancer is an LVS director (http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org), a layer
4 software load balancer. The load balancer balances requests to
sendmail on the two RHEL3 servers, and to apache running the Mailman web
interface. Because of this, there's no guarantee that a user will hit
the Mailman web interface on the same server as the one that has
received an email for a Mailman list. I do this load balancing for
redundancy, not for load; this way, I can bring down one of the two
servers at any time and the Mailman service is still maintained.

By the way, I've been doing this since Mailman 2.1.5, and from that
time, I've had the archives, data and lists directories on an NFS-shared
disk, like this:

[root at slap mailman-prod]# pwd
/usr/local/inst/mailman-2.1.9
[root at slap mailman-prod]# ls -al
total 72
drwxrwsr-x   18 mailman  mailman      4096 Oct  6 14:26 .
drwxr-xr-x   16 root     root         4096 Oct  9 10:26 ..
lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     mailman        35 Oct  6 14:25 archives ->
/var/mailman-share/mailman-archives
drwxrwsr-x    2 root     mailman      4096 Oct  6 14:28 bin
drwxrwsr-x    2 root     mailman      4096 Oct  6 14:28 cgi-bin
drwxrwsr-x    2 root     mailman      4096 Oct  9 09:00 cron
lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     mailman        31 Oct  6 14:25 data ->
/var/mailman-share/mailman-data
drwxrwsr-x    2 root     mailman      4096 Oct  6 14:27 icons
lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     mailman        32 Oct  6 14:25 lists ->
/var/mailman-share/mailman-lists
drwxrwsr-x    2 root     mailman      4096 Aug 13  2004 local-data
drwxrwsr-x    2 root     mailman      4096 Nov 23 12:04 locks
drwxrwsr-x    2 root     mailman      4096 Sep  9  2005 logs
drwxrwsr-x    2 root     mailman      4096 Oct  6 14:28 mail
drwxrwsr-x   11 root     mailman      4096 Oct  6 14:27 Mailman
drwxrwsr-x   34 root     mailman      4096 Oct  6 14:28 messages
drwxrwsr-x    6 root     mailman      4096 Jun 29  2004 pythonlib
drwxrwsr-x   11 root     mailman      4096 Jun 30  2004 qfiles
drwxrwsr-x    2 root     mailman      4096 Oct  6 14:49 scripts
drwxrwsr-x    2 root     mailman      4096 Jun 29  2004 spam
drwxrwsr-x   37 root     mailman      4096 Oct  6 14:28 templates
drwxrwsr-x    4 root     mailman      4096 Oct  6 14:28 tests

I'm wondering if there are any other directories that I should be
sharing between the two servers? I'm particularly thinking of the qfiles
directory, but basically, I guess I should be NFS-sharing any
directories that contain dynamic data that could be required by actions
arising from Mailman cron jobs (which only run on one of the two
servers) or from actions arising from the web interface.

Anyone suggest which directories I should be NFS sharing?

Thanks,
Guy.

-- 
Guy Waugh
Unix System Administrator
IT&TS, Southern Cross University
Lismore, NSW, Australia
Email: gwaugh at scu.edu.au
Ph.: +61 2 6620 3196
Fax: +61 2 6620 3033



From gwaugh at scu.edu.au  Mon Nov 27 05:03:56 2006
From: gwaugh at scu.edu.au (Guy Waugh)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:03:56 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Load-balancing mailman between two servers
In-Reply-To: <456A6236.5060507@adelaide.edu.au>
References: <456A46CF.9060203@scu.edu.au> <456A6236.5060507@adelaide.edu.au>
Message-ID: <456A63AC.5020909@scu.edu.au>

Hi Kim, list,

Kim Hawtin wrote:
> Guy Waugh wrote:
>   
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I run Mailman 2.1.9 on two load-balanced RHEL3 servers. The load
>> balancer is an LVS director (http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org), a layer
>> 4 software load balancer. The load balancer balances requests to
>> sendmail on the two RHEL3 servers, and to apache running the Mailman web
>> interface. Because of this, there's no guarantee that a user will hit
>> the Mailman web interface on the same server as the one that has
>> received an email for a Mailman list. I do this load balancing for
>> redundancy, not for load; this way, I can bring down one of the two
>> servers at any time and the Mailman service is still maintained.
>>
>> By the way, I've been doing this since Mailman 2.1.5, and from that
>> time, I've had the archives, data and lists directories on an NFS-shared
>> disk, like this:
>>     
>
> ...
>
>   
>> Anyone suggest which directories I should be NFS sharing?
>>     
>
> How/where do you share the incoming mail list aliases that sendmail checks?
>   
> Also when you create a new list, how to you update the other hosts aliases?
>   
On each server, in the sendmail aliases file. So, when adding or 
removing a list, I have to do the alias changes on each of the two servers.

One thing I am a bit concerned about is contention on the shared files 
between the two servers. If, for example, both servers wanted to update 
the same .pck file at the same time, I'm not sure what would happen... 
would one server lock the file and the other server wait for the lock to 
be released, does anyone know? Or would chaos ensue?
> cheers,
>
> Kim
>   
Cheers,
Guy.

-- 
Guy Waugh
Unix System Administrator
IT&TS, Southern Cross University
Lismore, NSW, Australia
Email: gwaugh at scu.edu.au
Ph.: +61 2 6620 3196
Fax: +61 2 6620 3033


From kim.hawtin at adelaide.edu.au  Mon Nov 27 04:57:42 2006
From: kim.hawtin at adelaide.edu.au (Kim Hawtin)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:27:42 +1030
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Load-balancing mailman between two servers
In-Reply-To: <456A46CF.9060203@scu.edu.au>
References: <456A46CF.9060203@scu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <456A6236.5060507@adelaide.edu.au>

Guy Waugh wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> I run Mailman 2.1.9 on two load-balanced RHEL3 servers. The load
> balancer is an LVS director (http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org), a layer
> 4 software load balancer. The load balancer balances requests to
> sendmail on the two RHEL3 servers, and to apache running the Mailman web
> interface. Because of this, there's no guarantee that a user will hit
> the Mailman web interface on the same server as the one that has
> received an email for a Mailman list. I do this load balancing for
> redundancy, not for load; this way, I can bring down one of the two
> servers at any time and the Mailman service is still maintained.
> 
> By the way, I've been doing this since Mailman 2.1.5, and from that
> time, I've had the archives, data and lists directories on an NFS-shared
> disk, like this:

...

> Anyone suggest which directories I should be NFS sharing?

How/where do you share the incoming mail list aliases that sendmail checks?

Also when you create a new list, how to you update the other hosts aliases?

cheers,

Kim
-- 
Operating Systems, Services and Operations
Information Technology Services, The University of Adelaide
kim.hawtin at adelaide.edu.au

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 27 06:54:55 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 21:54:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman Installation - Can't Send Email
	toaNewList (reformatted)
In-Reply-To: <456A4A35.2070203@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611262154550359d6e762fe@msapiro>


mcjathan wrote:
>
>In reading your instructions through what I discovered was that 
>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS was set to false like this:
>
>   POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = []
>
>I'm assuming this may be the entire problem.  Should this be set thusly?:
>
>   POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['domain1.net', 'domain2.net']


Probably yes, but that's what you said you had in mm_cfg.py in the OP.


>If so, once I make the change, what do I need to do to properly populate 
>virtual-mailman and generally re-initialize everything?


Run Mailman's 'bin/genaliases'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gkmohan at gmail.com  Mon Nov 27 09:12:54 2006
From: gkmohan at gmail.com (Krishna Mohan Gundu)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 01:12:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] disabling delivery of emails and yet be able to post
Message-ID: <70ec82800611270012y620685d4g5d025f6ac3682da9@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I did not find an answer to this question in the FAQ. It beats me as
to why this feature has been ignored all this while.

I am an infrequent poster to many mailing lists powered by mailman. In
most cases, I am not interested in receiving neither digests nor
individual emails from the list, but yet on an occasional day I would
like to post to list. I check the archives on an irregular basis.

Turning off the delivery of emails unfortunately disables posting. So
I will have enable/disable each time before/after I want to post. Is
there a better way?

thanks,
Krishna.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Nov 27 09:12:11 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 02:12:11 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Load-balancing mailman between two servers
In-Reply-To: <456A63AC.5020909@scu.edu.au>
References: <456A46CF.9060203@scu.edu.au>
	<456A6236.5060507@adelaide.edu.au> <456A63AC.5020909@scu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <p06240501c1904bb00191@[10.0.1.11]>

At 3:03 PM +1100 11/27/06, Guy Waugh quoted Kim Hawtin:

>>  How/where do you share the incoming mail list aliases that sendmail checks?
>>
>>  Also when you create a new list, how to you update the other hosts aliases?
>>
>  On each server, in the sendmail aliases file. So, when adding or
>  removing a list, I have to do the alias changes on each of the two servers.

Hmm.  With postfix, you can specify multiple alias files, some of 
which will get auto-rebuilt as necessary by postfix, others which can 
get manually rebuilt by other processes (like by Mailman, with the 
standard tools it provides).

It's been a while since I mucked around with sendmail, but I have to 
believe that the same is possible there.  Indeed, I believe that the 
technique that is currently used to completely automate this process 
with postfix was adapted from the technique that previously worked 
only with sendmail.

You could put that second set of aliases in the NFS shared space, so 
that you shouldn't have to rebuild that separately on the two boxes.

>  One thing I am a bit concerned about is contention on the shared files
>  between the two servers. If, for example, both servers wanted to update
>  the same .pck file at the same time, I'm not sure what would happen...
>  would one server lock the file and the other server wait for the lock to
>  be released, does anyone know? Or would chaos ensue?

The developers of Mailman have gone to great lengths to make the 
system as NFS-proof as possible.  That is to say, it should be 
possible to share the entire /usr/local/mailman structure via NFS (or 
wherever you put all the Mailman files, including archives, queue 
directories, etc...).  It should "just work".

That said, file locking on NFS is problematic during the very best of 
times, and I believe that the Mailman developers have gone to great 
lengths to try to work around that.  But, by putting that stuff on 
NFS, you are increasing the chances that you'll run into a situation 
where you get lock contention, or maybe stale locks that will need to 
be cleared out.  You will increase the amount of system maintenance 
that you have to do -- that's simply unavoidable.

And a very great deal depends on your NFS server.  Putting all this 
stuff on NFS can cut your throughput that you can handle by a great 
deal -- orders of magnitude or more, and that's if you've got a 
high-end mega-expensive dedicated NFS fileserver from the likes of 
EMC, Auspex, or Network Appliance.  Just keep this in mind as you 
program for redundancy.


I'm not saying that you can't put things on NFS, or that it's even 
"unwise".  I am saying that everything is a set of trade-offs, and 
you've got to understand what it is that you're trading for what.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Nov 27 09:16:20 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 02:16:20 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] disabling delivery of emails and yet be able to
 post
In-Reply-To: <70ec82800611270012y620685d4g5d025f6ac3682da9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <70ec82800611270012y620685d4g5d025f6ac3682da9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240502c1904edabf6f@[10.0.1.11]>

At 1:12 AM -0700 11/27/06, Krishna Mohan Gundu wrote:

>  Turning off the delivery of emails unfortunately disables posting. So
>  I will have enable/disable each time before/after I want to post. Is
>  there a better way?

This is not the way it works with any version of Mailman I have ever 
encountered.  In fact, I recommend that people do precisely this when 
they want to post from multiple different addresses to lists I 
administer, but where they want to receive only one copy of posts to 
the list.

What is it that you have seen that leads you to believe that this 
technique doesn't work?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From mcjathan1 at xmission.com  Mon Nov 27 13:16:43 2006
From: mcjathan1 at xmission.com (mcjathan)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 05:16:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman Installation - Can't Send Email
 toaNewList (reformatted)
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611262154550359d6e762fe@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200611262154550359d6e762fe@msapiro>
Message-ID: <456AD72B.9040703@xmission.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> mcjathan wrote:
>   
>> In reading your instructions through what I discovered was that 
>> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS was set to false like this:
>>
>>   POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = []
>>
>> I'm assuming this may be the entire problem.  Should this be set thusly?:
>>
>>   POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['domain1.net', 'domain2.net']
>>     
>
>
> Probably yes, but that's what you said you had in mm_cfg.py in the OP.
Hi Mark, Sorry, my mistake here.  I'm kind of over my head and feel like 
I'm chasing my tail as I try to walk through various configuration files 
and parameters.

In fact, POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS was set in mm_cfg.py, but was not 
set in Defaults.py.  Should POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS not be set in 
Defaults.py?

Jeff

From bmp at univexsystems.com  Mon Nov 27 13:50:21 2006
From: bmp at univexsystems.com (Brian Parish)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:50:21 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Old lists are working. New lists discard all
	messages. How to debug?
Message-ID: <456ADF0D.3050209@univexsystems.com>

I have a number of lists running happily, but a couple of new ones don't
want to play.  For testing purposes I subscribe myself to them and a
couple of other addresses.  All message sent to them from subscribed
addresses get automatically discarded.  I can see the discards in the
vette log, but that doesn't provide a reason why.  Do I need to turn on
verbose output or something to get a diagnostic that's meaningful?

TIA
Brian

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Nov 27 15:28:50 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 08:28:50 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman Installation - Can't Send Email
	toaNewList (reformatted)
In-Reply-To: <456AD72B.9040703@xmission.com>
References: <PC1760200611262154550359d6e762fe@msapiro>
	<456AD72B.9040703@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611270628i5c131e95u1b7c65648231dc09@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/27/06, mcjathan <mcjathan1 at xmission.com> wrote:
> In fact, POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS was set in mm_cfg.py, but was not
> set in Defaults.py.  Should POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS not be set in
> Defaults.py?

Any settings in mm_cfg.py override the identical setting in
Defaults.py. So, if POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS is unset in
Defaults.py (or even set to 'foobarmonkey', for whatever reason), any
setting (correct, valid, or otherwise) of
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS in mm_cfg.py will be used, instead.

The rule of thumb is that you should never alter Defaults.py, since
this file can (and probably will) be overwritten during an upgrade of
Mailman. mm_cfg.py, however, will NOT be overwritten by Mailman's
installation scripts, so it's safe to put configuration data there.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Mon Nov 27 16:43:16 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 07:43:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman Installation - Can't Send Email
 toaNewList (reformatted)
In-Reply-To: <456AD72B.9040703@xmission.com>
References: <PC1760200611262154550359d6e762fe@msapiro>
	<456AD72B.9040703@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061127074011.06572c20@crimson-dragon.com>

mcjathan sent the message below at 04:16 11/27/2006:
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
> > mcjathan wrote:
> >
> >> In reading your instructions through what I discovered was that
> >> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS was set to false like this:
> >>
> >>   POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = []
> >>
> >> I'm assuming this may be the entire problem.  Should this be set thusly?:
> >>
> >>   POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['domain1.net', 'domain2.net']
> >>
> >
> >
> > Probably yes, but that's what you said you had in mm_cfg.py in the OP.
>Hi Mark, Sorry, my mistake here.  I'm kind of over my head and feel like
>I'm chasing my tail as I try to walk through various configuration files
>and parameters.
>
>In fact, POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS was set in mm_cfg.py, but was not
>set in Defaults.py.  Should POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS not be set in
>Defaults.py?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

There is a comment right at the top of Defaults.py that says "don't 
edit this file".

Anything you want to change goes into mm_cfg.py and will override 
values in Defaults.py

The reason for this is that Defaults.py gets rebuilt and overwritten 
when you do make install. mm_cfg.py does not get overwritten so it is 
the place your overrides for site specific options are supposed to go.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 27 17:03:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 08:03:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman Installation - Can't Send Email
	toaNewList(reformatted)
In-Reply-To: <456AD72B.9040703@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611270803480843993baa1b@msapiro>

mcjathan wrote:
>
>In fact, POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS was set in mm_cfg.py, but was not 
>set in Defaults.py.  Should POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS not be set in 
>Defaults.py?


You should not make any changes in Defaults.py (see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.021.htp>
and other replies in this thread)

Your setting in mm_cfg.py overrides the default in Defaults.py, and
that's the way it should be.

So we're back to the original question. Please go back to
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-November/054347.html>
and try to understand what I wrote there. As I said there, "The fact
that you have nothing in virtual-mailman after running bin/genaliases
and/or creating lists indicates you have no lists whose host_name
attribute is in the POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS list".

Since POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS is apparently correct, the problem
is with the lists. This is because the various DEFAULT_*_HOST settings
and add_virtualhost directives are not correct in mm_cfg.py or weren't
when the lists were created. The post referenced above says more about
this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 27 17:19:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 08:19:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Old lists are working. New lists discard
	allmessages. How to debug?
In-Reply-To: <456ADF0D.3050209@univexsystems.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611270819560859b2c1e113@msapiro>

Brian Parish wrote:

>I have a number of lists running happily, but a couple of new ones don't
>want to play.  For testing purposes I subscribe myself to them and a
>couple of other addresses.  All message sent to them from subscribed
>addresses get automatically discarded.  I can see the discards in the
>vette log, but that doesn't provide a reason why.  Do I need to turn on
>verbose output or something to get a diagnostic that's meaningful?


I think there are just two ways this can happen.

1) You are 'moderated' and member_moderation_action is Discard.

2) Your post is seen as from a nonmember and either you are in
discard_these_nonmembers or generic_nonmember_action is Discard.

You can get more information in case 2) by setting
forward_auto_discards to Yes.

(All the above settings except your moderated bit are on Privacy
options...->Sender filters)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From david at midrange.com  Mon Nov 27 17:59:47 2006
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 10:59:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ics / iCalendar attachments?
Message-ID: <456B1983.9020107@midrange.com>

Has anyone configured Mailman to allow ICS / iCalendar attachments?

I've added text/calendar to the pass_mime_types setting in content
filtering, but the ICS attachment was removed.

The full content of pass_mime_types is:

multipart/mixed
multipart/alternative
multipart/related
text/plain
text/html
text/calendar
application/pdf


Here's how the mime attachment was included for the ICS file (I mangled
it a bit to make sure it didn't get parsed) ...

----------
Content- Type: text/calendar; method=REQUEST; name=invite.ics;
charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

BEGIN:VCALENDAR
PRODID:-//Google Inc//Google Calendar 70.9054//EN
VERSION:2.0
CALSCALE:GREGORIAN
METHOD:REQUEST
<snip>
----------

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

david

From rachel at musango.ca  Mon Nov 27 18:10:18 2006
From: rachel at musango.ca (Rachel Assuncao)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 12:10:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trying to access archives - access denied
Message-ID: <00da01c71246$eb3be450$6400a8c0@Musango>

Hello,

 


I am the manger for a couple of different lists that are relatively new.  It
has come to my attention in the last few days that our members are unable to
access the archives when they click on the archives link
(http://lists.genuinecontact.info/pipermail/genuinecontact/).  When you
click on the link, it takes you to a page that says "Forbidden: You don't
have permission to access /pipermail/genuinecontact/ on this server.
Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an
ErrorDocument to handle the request."


 

I don't have very much experience managing these things, and very little
technical understanding.  Does anyone have any ideas about how to resolve
this?

 

I've already checked the settings of the archives, and they are set to
archive messages, the archive file source is for public, and new archive
volumes should be set yearly.

 

Also, from the list management page, I can click on Edit List Archives and
it will take me to the archives for editing, but if I click on Go To List
Archives, I get the same message as above.

 

I feel like this should be something really easy to fix, but couldn't find
any reference in the help section available.  This is the same on all of the
lists I manage (6) so I am assuming it is a setting somewhere?

 

Thanks,

Rachel

 

The day will come when after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides,
gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And on that day
for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered
fire. 

~ Teilhard de Chardin

 


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Nov 27 19:51:51 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 12:51:51 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trying to access archives - access denied
In-Reply-To: <00da01c71246$eb3be450$6400a8c0@Musango>
References: <00da01c71246$eb3be450$6400a8c0@Musango>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611271051r4b002adi7cfec8e6bfa3540f@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/27/06, Rachel Assuncao <rachel at musango.ca> wrote:
> I am the manger for a couple of different lists that are relatively new.  It
> has come to my attention in the last few days that our members are unable to
> access the archives when they click on the archives link
> (http://lists.genuinecontact.info/pipermail/genuinecontact/).  When you
> click on the link, it takes you to a page that says "Forbidden: You don't
> have permission to access /pipermail/genuinecontact/ on this server.
> Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an
> ErrorDocument to handle the request."

This looks like a web server (e.g., apache) configuration, and/or
permissions issue. I think the problem is that the user apache is
running as can't access your /pipermail tree.

Did you install Mailman from source, or did you use a packaged version?

You might want to run through Chapter 5 of the installation manual
<http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node10.html> and
make sure you followed everything properly.

It might be worthwhile to run check_perms, as well, although I'm not
sure if it actually checks these particular permisisons.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From rachel at musango.ca  Mon Nov 27 20:58:29 2006
From: rachel at musango.ca (Rachel Assuncao)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:58:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trying to access archives - access denied
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00611271051r4b002adi7cfec8e6bfa3540f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <013a01c7125e$69f8fe60$6400a8c0@Musango>

Thanks for the quick response Patrick.

I didn't install Mailman.  Our web host (Blue Genesis) offers Mailman as
part of their independent server package.  We create the mailing list
through their host control panel (Pleask) and then do all of the management
of it through the Mailman online mailing list administration.  They are the
ones responsible for installation, and I assume it is installed correctly,
if many of their clients are using it.

What is check_perms?

Thanks,
Rachel
 
The day will come when after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides,
gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And on that day
for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered
fire. 
~ Teilhard de Chardin

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Bogen [mailto:pdbogen at gmail.com] 
Sent: November 27, 2006 1:52 PM
To: Rachel Assuncao
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] trying to access archives - access denied

On 11/27/06, Rachel Assuncao <rachel at musango.ca> wrote:
> I am the manger for a couple of different lists that are relatively new.
It
> has come to my attention in the last few days that our members are unable
to
> access the archives when they click on the archives link
> (http://lists.genuinecontact.info/pipermail/genuinecontact/).  When you
> click on the link, it takes you to a page that says "Forbidden: You don't
> have permission to access /pipermail/genuinecontact/ on this server.
> Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an
> ErrorDocument to handle the request."

This looks like a web server (e.g., apache) configuration, and/or
permissions issue. I think the problem is that the user apache is
running as can't access your /pipermail tree.

Did you install Mailman from source, or did you use a packaged version?

You might want to run through Chapter 5 of the installation manual
<http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node10.html> and
make sure you followed everything properly.

It might be worthwhile to run check_perms, as well, although I'm not
sure if it actually checks these particular permisisons.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 27 21:20:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 12:20:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ics / iCalendar attachments?
In-Reply-To: <456B1983.9020107@midrange.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611271220140500e6db5822@msapiro>

David Gibbs wrote:
>
>The full content of pass_mime_types is:
>
>multipart/mixed
>multipart/alternative
>multipart/related
>text/plain
>text/html
>text/calendar
>application/pdf
>
>
>Here's how the mime attachment was included for the ICS file (I mangled
>it a bit to make sure it didn't get parsed) ...
>
>----------
>Content- Type: text/calendar; method=REQUEST; name=invite.ics;
>charset=ISO-8859-1
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Content-Disposition: inline


That should do it. What are your other content filtering settings?

And what is the complete MIME structure of the message containing the
calendar? I.e., is the text/calendar part a subpart of some other part
type that isn't accepted?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From david at midrange.com  Mon Nov 27 21:34:31 2006
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:34:31 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ics / iCalendar attachments?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611271220140500e6db5822@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200611271220140500e6db5822@msapiro>
Message-ID: <456B4BD7.3090201@midrange.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> That should do it. What are your other content filtering settings?

filter_content = yes

filter_mime_types = blank

pass_mime_types = "multipart/mixed multipart/alternative
multipart/related text/plain text/html text/calendar application/pdf"

filter_filename_extensions = "exe bat cmd com pif scr vbs cpl"

pass_filename_extensions = blank

collapse_alternatives = yes

convert_html_to_plaintext = yes

filter_action = forward to owner

> And what is the complete MIME structure of the message containing the
> calendar? I.e., is the text/calendar part a subpart of some other part
> type that isn't accepted?

Don't think so ... but I'm not an expert in mime-encodong ..

Here's the a full message that has the calendar attachment ...

Return-Path: <dgibbs at asdf.com>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on mail.nospam.com
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_50,
	DK_POLICY_SIGNSOME,MIME_BASE64_NO_NAME autolearn=ham version=3.1.7
Received: from mail.il.us.asdf.com (mail.il.us.asdf.com [127.0.0.2])
	by mail.nospam.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kAR1vZsv029181
	for <david at nospam.com>; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 19:57:40 -0600
Received: from ilntexch.asdf.com (ilntexch.asdf.com [10.17.1.10])
	by mail.il.us.asdf.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B696182A
	for <david at nospam.com>; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 19:27:30 -0500 (EST)
Content-class: urn:content-classes:calendarmessage
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C711C7.683876B5"
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0
Subject: test
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 19:57:35 -0600
Message-ID: <C47BFB7D8477D24CA16684FC24A0C55F0228EA18 at ilntexch.asdf.com>
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
Thread-Topic: test
Thread-Index: AccRx2gZFDduLb4eQTWBBmJeW2QHRgAAAATY
From: "David Gibbs" <dgibbs at asdf.com>
To: <david at nospam.com>
X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.6/2242/Sat Nov 25 12:29:12 2006 on
rivendell.nospam.com
X-Virus-Status: Clean
Status: RO
X-Status: A
Content-Length: 2042
X-UID: 1576
X-Keywords:


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C711C7.683876B5
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

VHlwZTpTaW5nbGUgTWVldGluZw0KT3JnYW5pemVyOkRhdmlkIEdpYmJzDQpTdGFydCBUaW1lOlN1
bmRheSwgTm92ZW1iZXIgMjYsIDIwMDYgODowMCBQTQ0KRW5kIFRpbWU6U3VuZGF5LCBOb3ZlbWJl
ciAyNiwgMjAwNiA4OjMwIFBNDQpUaW1lIFpvbmU6KEdNVC0wNjowMCkgQ2VudHJhbCBUaW1lIChV
UyAmIENhbmFkYSkNCkxvY2F0aW9uOm5vd2hlcmUNCg0KKn4qfip+Kn4qfip+Kn4qfip+Kg0KDQoN
Cg0K

------_=_NextPart_001_01C711C7.683876B5
Content-class: urn:content-classes:calendarmessage
Content-Type: text/calendar;
	method=REQUEST;
	name="meeting.ics"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

BEGIN:VCALENDAR
METHOD:REQUEST
PRODID:Microsoft CDO for Microsoft Exchange
VERSION:2.0
BEGIN:VTIMEZONE
TZID:(GMT-06.00) Central Time (US & Canada)
X-MICROSOFT-CDO-TZID:11
BEGIN:STANDARD
DTSTART:16010101T020000
TZOFFSETFROM:-0500
TZOFFSETTO:-0600
RRULE:FREQ=YEARLY;WKST=MO;INTERVAL=1;BYMONTH=10;BYDAY=-1SU
END:STANDARD
BEGIN:DAYLIGHT
DTSTART:16010101T020000
TZOFFSETFROM:-0600
TZOFFSETTO:-0500
RRULE:FREQ=YEARLY;WKST=MO;INTERVAL=1;BYMONTH=4;BYDAY=1SU
END:DAYLIGHT
END:VTIMEZONE
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTAMP:20061127T015737Z
DTSTART;TZID="(GMT-06.00) Central Time (US & Canada)":20061126T200000
SUMMARY:test
UID:{2DEE9D74-A5C9-4082-B980-549FDF93EA67}
ATTENDEE;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP=TRUE;CN="david at nospam.com":MAILTO:david at nospam.com
ORGANIZER;CN="David Gibbs":MAILTO:dgibbs at asd.com
LOCATION:nowhere
DTEND;TZID="(GMT-06.00) Central Time (US & Canada)":20061126T203000
DESCRIPTION:\N\N
SEQUENCE:1
PRIORITY:5
CLASS:
CREATED:20061127T015735Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20061127T015735Z
STATUS:CONFIRMED
TRANSP:OPAQUE
X-MICROSOFT-CDO-BUSYSTATUS:BUSY
X-MICROSOFT-CDO-INSTTYPE:0
X-MICROSOFT-CDO-INTENDEDSTATUS:BUSY
X-MICROSOFT-CDO-ALLDAYEVENT:FALSE
X-MICROSOFT-CDO-IMPORTANCE:1
X-MICROSOFT-CDO-OWNERAPPTID:-1
BEGIN:VALARM
ACTION:DISPLAY
DESCRIPTION:REMINDER
TRIGGER;RELATED=START:-PT00H15M00S
END:VALARM
END:VEVENT
END:VCALENDAR

------_=_NextPart_001_01C711C7.683876B5--


Thanks!

david


From djk at tobit.co.uk  Mon Nov 27 22:04:10 2006
From: djk at tobit.co.uk (Dirk Koopman)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 21:04:10 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman has just stopped sending out mail
	to	allmailing lists
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006112616093701713f0cc650@msapiro>
References: <PC17602006112616093701713f0cc650@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1164661450.30466.40.camel@localhost>

I have reinstalled over the top of my installation. Doing a diff -u of
the source directory after a make and /usr/local/mailman produced
nothing of interest.

The make install has a large number of "pointers differ in signedness
warnings"

I did an 'unshunt' and here are some results

Some extracts from the logs:

 == smtp-failure

Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) delivery to seankerry at btinternet.com failed with code -1: please run connect() first
Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) delivery to jane_major at msn.com failed with code -1: please run connect() first
Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) delivery to mark at charnley7145.freeserve.co.uk failed with code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) delivery to tom.pollendine at middlelevel.co.uk failed with code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) delivery to Addmitch at aol.com failed with code -1: please run connect() first
Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) delivery to pmitzs at yahoo.com failed with code -1: please run connect() first
Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) delivery to sweenmarie at aol.com failed with code -1: please run connect() first
Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) delivery to leserve at tinyworld.co.uk failed with code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) delivery to djk at tobit.co.uk failed with code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) delivery to janzyuk at yahoo.co.uk failed with code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')

this is a snapshot of the last few lines. Each recipient has one of a
similar set of messages for every .pck.

 == error

Nov 27 21:53:24 2006 (12031) SHUNTING: 1162300907.583493+aa39005732b51ab067ad1e5ac45d4cf8cb1bf3f1
Nov 27 21:53:24 2006 (12031) Uncaught runner exception: 'str' object has no attribute 'get_sender'
Nov 27 21:53:24 2006 (12031) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 162, in _onefile
    sender = msg.get_sender()
AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'get_sender'

Nov 27 21:53:24 2006 (12031) SHUNTING: 1162300907.5915849+536fe1680b23dc5e1d4773156e3c0e98b6e64ed0

this is one of these for every pck

 == smtp

Nov 27 21:53:23 2006 (12035) <mailman.1.1164655871.6021.dxspider-support at dxcluster.org> smtp to dxspider-support for 1 recips, completed in 0.007 seconds
Nov 27 21:53:23 2006 (12035) <mailman.5.1164657531.6019.pelicans at tobit.co.uk> smtp to pelicans for 2 recips, completed in 0.009 seconds
Nov 27 21:53:24 2006 (12035) <20061127203222.31969.qmail at web86010.mail.ird.yahoo.com> smtp to pelicans for 204 recips, completed in 0.024 seconds
Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) <2F78F48E8F45F2468D09D7768EEEA9230585C3 at ryburgh4> smtp to pelicans for 204 recips, completed in 0.053 seconds

entirely normal

 == post

Nov 27 21:53:23 2006 (12035) post to pelicans from mailman-bounces at tobit.co.uk, size=4440, message-id=<mailman.5.1164657531.6019.pelicans at tobit.co.uk>, 2 failures
Nov 27 21:53:24 2006 (12035) post to pelicans from collin.picton at btinternet.com, size=18105, message-id=<20061127203222.31969.qmail at web86010.mail.ird.yahoo.com>, 204 failures
Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) post to pelicans from bob.king at crispmalt.com, size=153840, message-id=<2F78F48E8F45F2468D09D7768EEEA9230585C3 at ryburgh4>, 204 failures

Hope this helps

Dirk



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 27 22:34:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:34:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ics / iCalendar attachments?
In-Reply-To: <456B4BD7.3090201@midrange.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006112713344100935fcea606@msapiro>

David Gibbs wrote:
>
>Here's the a full message that has the calendar attachment ...
>
>Return-Path: <dgibbs at asdf.com>
><snip>
>Content-class: urn:content-classes:calendarmessage
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C711C7.683876B5"
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0
><snip>
>
>------_=_NextPart_001_01C711C7.683876B5
>Content-Type: text/plain;
>	charset="UTF-8"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
>
><snip>
>
>------_=_NextPart_001_01C711C7.683876B5
>Content-class: urn:content-classes:calendarmessage
>Content-Type: text/calendar;
>	method=REQUEST;
>	name="meeting.ics"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
><snip>
>
>------_=_NextPart_001_01C711C7.683876B5--



The overall message above is multipart/alternative with a text/plain
subpart and a text/calendar subpart. Apparently, Microsoft Exchange
mails a calendar with a text/plain alternative for those mail clients
that don't understand the calendar in the same way as it might include
a text/plain alternative to a text/html message.

Since your content filtering options include "collapse_alternatives =
yes", Mailman selects only the first alternative of those that remain
after initial filtering for delivery to the list. Thus the
text/calendar alternative is dropped in favor of the text/plain
alternative.

You have two choices:

1) teach Microsoft Exchange to send the calendar part only without the
text/plain alternative, or generate the message differently so it does
that, or

2) set "collapse_alternatives = no", but this may have other, unwanted
effects.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From david at midrange.com  Mon Nov 27 22:41:27 2006
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:41:27 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ics / iCalendar attachments?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006112713344100935fcea606@msapiro>
References: <PC17602006112713344100935fcea606@msapiro>
Message-ID: <456B5B87.2000903@midrange.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Since your content filtering options include "collapse_alternatives =
> yes", Mailman selects only the first alternative of those that remain
> after initial filtering for delivery to the list. Thus the
> text/calendar alternative is dropped in favor of the text/plain
> alternative.

Ok, that I can understand.

> 1) teach Microsoft Exchange to send the calendar part only without the
> text/plain alternative, or generate the message differently so it does
> that, or

Two words: Brick-wall & Head (as in: hitting one against the other ...
I'll accomplish the same whichever I do).

Although I don't think it's a M$ Exchange problem ... when I sent a
event attachment with GMail, I get the same behavior.

> 2) set "collapse_alternatives = no", but this may have other, unwanted
> effects.

Maybe.  I'll have to experiment.

david


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 27 22:51:55 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:51:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trying to access archives - access denied
In-Reply-To: <013a01c7125e$69f8fe60$6400a8c0@Musango>
Message-ID: <PC17602006112713515508594bea1072@msapiro>

Rachel Assuncao wrote:
>
>I didn't install Mailman.  Our web host (Blue Genesis) offers Mailman as
>part of their independent server package.  We create the mailing list
>through their host control panel (Pleask) and then do all of the management
>of it through the Mailman online mailing list administration.  They are the
>ones responsible for installation, and I assume it is installed correctly,
>if many of their clients are using it.
>
>What is check_perms?


Not relevant to you in the above scenario. It is a Mailman command line
tool for checking permissions available only to those who have shell
access to the Mailman installation.

Can you access the archives via a url like
<http://lists.genuinecontact.info/mailman/private/genuinecontact/>?
This URL should look like those you use to access the list admin or
moderator interface except with 'private' instead of 'admin' or
'admindb'. This should get a login page and you should be able to log
in with either a list member's email address and list password or the
list admin password. If you can get to the archives this way, that
verifies the archives are OK, but there still could be a permissions
issue or a misconfiguration of theweb server for the
lists.genuinecontact.info domain.

Do you have access to the web server logs for this domain? If so,
what's in the error log for the 403 errors?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 27 23:03:26 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:03:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ics / iCalendar attachments?
In-Reply-To: <456B5B87.2000903@midrange.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611271403260375099c5551@msapiro>

David Gibbs wrote:
>
>Two words: Brick-wall & Head (as in: hitting one against the other ...
>I'll accomplish the same whichever I do).
>
>Although I don't think it's a M$ Exchange problem ... when I sent a
>event attachment with GMail, I get the same behavior.


If all the MUA's send the text/calendar part with a text/plain
alternative, then what you need to do is 2).


>> 2) set "collapse_alternatives = no", but this may have other, unwanted
>> effects.
>
>Maybe.  I'll have to experiment.


The potentially unwanted effects I had in mind are that your current
settings accept both text/plain and text/html, but if a text/html part
has a text/plain alternative, only the text/plain part is sent to the
list. Setting "collapse_alternatives = no" will mean that in these
cases, both alternatives will be sent to the list in the original
multipart/alternative form. You may see this as neutral, positive or
negative.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mathias.andre at gmail.com  Mon Nov 27 23:09:15 2006
From: mathias.andre at gmail.com (Mathias Andre)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:09:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and (really) large lists
In-Reply-To: <20061125143700.7588.qmail@web82412.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <p06240500c18cdcba393a@10.0.1.11>
	<20061125143700.7588.qmail@web82412.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <22b0f2200611271409k65563e15r83afbb0346c52107@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for all your comments, next time I'll RTFM  a bit more :)

I'll let you know how it goes,

Mathias

On 11/25/06, Jack Stone <antennex at swbell.net> wrote:
> As one stat, one of my lists of 10,000 is usually completed within 24 mins.
> I usually drop all filter scans during that time, plus I use 20 separate
> mail queues (sendmail) so too many don't pile up in a single queue and has
> to start over delaying send-outs. These 2 things have affected my speed more
> than anything else -- except maybe a custom footer which I avoid using.
>
>
> Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
> At 8:39 AM +0100 11/24/06, Mathias Andre wrote:
>
> > In parallel of this migration we have been ask to set up a very large
> > mailing list: between 15000 to 25000 users. This would be a moderated
> > list (actually more like some kind of newsletter).
> >
> > I was wondering how well would mailman cope with such a large list.
>
> Check the FAQ. 15,000-25,000 is only a moderately large mailing
> list, as far as Mailman is concerned.
>
> > Has any of you done anything similar?
>
> Check the FAQ. There's lots of good stuff there.
>
> --
> Brad Knowles,
>
> Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
> mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006. If you have an old
> e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
> with the current address.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/antennex%40swbell.net
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
>
>
>
> (^-^)
> Best regards,
> Jack L. Stone

From david at midrange.com  Mon Nov 27 23:12:16 2006
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 16:12:16 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ics / iCalendar attachments?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611271403260375099c5551@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200611271403260375099c5551@msapiro>
Message-ID: <456B62C0.6080001@midrange.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> If all the MUA's send the text/calendar part with a text/plain 
> alternative, then what you need to do is 2).

Yep, figured that.

> The potentially unwanted effects I had in mind are that your current 
> settings accept both text/plain and text/html, but if a text/html
> part has a text/plain alternative, only the text/plain part is sent
> to the list. Setting "collapse_alternatives = no" will mean that in
> these cases, both alternatives will be sent to the list in the
> original multipart/alternative form. You may see this as neutral,
> positive or negative.

This is for one list with a very limited audience, so I don't think the
ramifications will be significant.


Thanks very much for your help.

david

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 28 00:02:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:02:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman has just stopped sending out mail
	toallmailing lists
In-Reply-To: <1164661450.30466.40.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC176020061127150233079624c7319d@msapiro>

Dirk Koopman wrote:

>The make install has a large number of "pointers differ in signedness
>warnings"


I think the only things that would produce this are the compilations of
the wrappers, and I don't see that wrapper issues could cause the
problem you're having.

Did you do any kind of Python update just before things stopped working?


>I did an 'unshunt' and here are some results
>
>Some extracts from the logs:
>
> == smtp-failure
>
>Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) delivery to seankerry at btinternet.com failed with code -1: please run connect() first
>Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) delivery to jane_major at msn.com failed with code -1: please run connect() first
>Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) delivery to mark at charnley7145.freeserve.co.uk failed with code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
>Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) delivery to tom.pollendine at middlelevel.co.uk failed with code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
>Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) delivery to Addmitch at aol.com failed with code -1: please run connect() first
>Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) delivery to pmitzs at yahoo.com failed with code -1: please run connect() first
>Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) delivery to sweenmarie at aol.com failed with code -1: please run connect() first
>Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) delivery to leserve at tinyworld.co.uk failed with code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
>Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) delivery to djk at tobit.co.uk failed with code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
>Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) delivery to janzyuk at yahoo.co.uk failed with code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
>
>this is a snapshot of the last few lines. Each recipient has one of a
>similar set of messages for every .pck.


Strange, as the shunting occurs well before delivery, but in any case,
the above are not related to the shunting errors. These errors occur
between Mailman and the outgoing MTA. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>
and
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.014.htp>


> == error
>
>Nov 27 21:53:24 2006 (12031) SHUNTING: 1162300907.583493+aa39005732b51ab067ad1e5ac45d4cf8cb1bf3f1
>Nov 27 21:53:24 2006 (12031) Uncaught runner exception: 'str' object has no attribute 'get_sender'
>Nov 27 21:53:24 2006 (12031) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 162, in _onefile
>    sender = msg.get_sender()
>AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'get_sender'
>
>Nov 27 21:53:24 2006 (12031) SHUNTING: 1162300907.5915849+536fe1680b23dc5e1d4773156e3c0e98b6e64ed0
>
>this is one of these for every pck


Expected as the shunted queue entries are defective (the question is
how did they get that way).

You need to apply the workaround discussed at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-September/053556.html>
and then try to unshunt. The workaround will also allow new messages
to process OK.


> == smtp
>
>Nov 27 21:53:23 2006 (12035) <mailman.1.1164655871.6021.dxspider-support at dxcluster.org> smtp to dxspider-support for 1 recips, completed in 0.007 seconds
>Nov 27 21:53:23 2006 (12035) <mailman.5.1164657531.6019.pelicans at tobit.co.uk> smtp to pelicans for 2 recips, completed in 0.009 seconds
>Nov 27 21:53:24 2006 (12035) <20061127203222.31969.qmail at web86010.mail.ird.yahoo.com> smtp to pelicans for 204 recips, completed in 0.024 seconds
>Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) <2F78F48E8F45F2468D09D7768EEEA9230585C3 at ryburgh4> smtp to pelicans for 204 recips, completed in 0.053 seconds
>
>entirely normal


Except all the deliveries failed.


> == post
>
>Nov 27 21:53:23 2006 (12035) post to pelicans from mailman-bounces at tobit.co.uk, size=4440, message-id=<mailman.5.1164657531.6019.pelicans at tobit.co.uk>, 2 failures
>Nov 27 21:53:24 2006 (12035) post to pelicans from collin.picton at btinternet.com, size=18105, message-id=<20061127203222.31969.qmail at web86010.mail.ird.yahoo.com>, 204 failures
>Nov 27 21:53:25 2006 (12035) post to pelicans from bob.king at crispmalt.com, size=153840, message-id=<2F78F48E8F45F2468D09D7768EEEA9230585C3 at ryburgh4>, 204 failures


These again relate to the sending issue, not the shunting issue, but
these two issues could be related at the Python level. Again, have
there been any Python changes?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rachel at musango.ca  Tue Nov 28 01:26:37 2006
From: rachel at musango.ca (Rachel Assuncao)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:26:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trying to access archives - access denied
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006112713515508594bea1072@msapiro>
Message-ID: <006d01c71283$e029f3d0$6400a8c0@Musango>

Hello Mark,

Thanks for the follow up.  I checked the link you provided, and yes, I can
access the archives that way.  So, it is good to know that the archives are
OK!

I've also been talking with our web host, who tried to help, couldn't, and
has now referred me to Pleask's service team for further follow up.

I have access to a variety of logs through Pleask's systems, but couldn't
find anything that referenced the error code, so maybe the logs I am able to
access aren't the right ones.

Rachel
 
The day will come when after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides,
gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And on that day
for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered
fire. 
~ Teilhard de Chardin
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: November 27, 2006 4:52 PM
To: Rachel Assuncao; mailman-users at python.org; pdbogen at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] trying to access archives - access denied

Rachel Assuncao wrote:
>
>I didn't install Mailman.  Our web host (Blue Genesis) offers Mailman as
>part of their independent server package.  We create the mailing list
>through their host control panel (Pleask) and then do all of the management
>of it through the Mailman online mailing list administration.  They are the
>ones responsible for installation, and I assume it is installed correctly,
>if many of their clients are using it.
>
>What is check_perms?


Not relevant to you in the above scenario. It is a Mailman command line
tool for checking permissions available only to those who have shell
access to the Mailman installation.

Can you access the archives via a url like
<http://lists.genuinecontact.info/mailman/private/genuinecontact/>?
This URL should look like those you use to access the list admin or
moderator interface except with 'private' instead of 'admin' or
'admindb'. This should get a login page and you should be able to log
in with either a list member's email address and list password or the
list admin password. If you can get to the archives this way, that
verifies the archives are OK, but there still could be a permissions
issue or a misconfiguration of theweb server for the
lists.genuinecontact.info domain.

Do you have access to the web server logs for this domain? If so,
what's in the error log for the 403 errors?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From xt3 at cccmz.de  Tue Nov 28 01:44:07 2006
From: xt3 at cccmz.de (Stephan Jennewein)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 01:44:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change the Webinterface url
Message-ID: <1164674647.5587.20.camel@lisa>

Hi,

how can I change the url to the webinterface of an already existing
list setup? Because I wanted to switch to https, but I don't see the
option for an existing setup. Every new list is working fine with the
new configuration in the mm_cfg.py but the old once doesn't care about
the changes.

stephan
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From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 28 04:15:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:15:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change the Webinterface url
In-Reply-To: <1164674647.5587.20.camel@lisa>
Message-ID: <PC176020061127191533045373d72ba6@msapiro>

Stephan Jennewein wrote:
>
>how can I change the url to the webinterface of an already existing
>list setup? Because I wanted to switch to https, but I don't see the
>option for an existing setup. Every new list is working fine with the
>new configuration in the mm_cfg.py but the old once doesn't care about
>the changes.



Then all you need to do for the existing lists is run fix_url. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stanley at chen.com.hk  Tue Nov 28 05:15:09 2006
From: stanley at chen.com.hk (Stanley Chen)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:15:09 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and (really) large lists
In-Reply-To: <22b0f2200611271409k65563e15r83afbb0346c52107@mail.gmail.com>
References: <p06240500c18cdcba393a@10.0.1.11>	<20061125143700.7588.qmail@web82412.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<22b0f2200611271409k65563e15r83afbb0346c52107@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <456BB7CD.2080800@chen.com.hk>

Can you elaborate more? How to seperate the mail queues and drop the 
filter scans?


Mathias Andre wrote:

>Thank you for all your comments, next time I'll RTFM  a bit more :)
>
>I'll let you know how it goes,
>
>Mathias
>
>On 11/25/06, Jack Stone <antennex at swbell.net> wrote:
>  
>
>>As one stat, one of my lists of 10,000 is usually completed within 24 mins.
>>I usually drop all filter scans during that time, plus I use 20 separate
>>mail queues (sendmail) so too many don't pile up in a single queue and has
>>to start over delaying send-outs. These 2 things have affected my speed more
>>than anything else -- except maybe a custom footer which I avoid using.
>>
>>
>>Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
>>At 8:39 AM +0100 11/24/06, Mathias Andre wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>In parallel of this migration we have been ask to set up a very large
>>>mailing list: between 15000 to 25000 users. This would be a moderated
>>>list (actually more like some kind of newsletter).
>>>
>>>I was wondering how well would mailman cope with such a large list.
>>>      
>>>
>>Check the FAQ. 15,000-25,000 is only a moderately large mailing
>>list, as far as Mailman is concerned.
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Has any of you done anything similar?
>>>      
>>>
>>Check the FAQ. There's lots of good stuff there.
>>
>>--
>>Brad Knowles,
>>
>>Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
>>mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006. If you have an old
>>e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
>>with the current address.
>>------------------------------------------------------
>>Mailman-Users mailing list
>>Mailman-Users at python.org
>>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>>Searchable Archives:
>>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>>Unsubscribe:
>>http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/antennex%40swbell.net
>>
>>Security Policy:
>>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
>>
>>
>>
>>(^-^)
>>Best regards,
>>Jack L. Stone
>>    
>>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/stanley%40chen.com.hk
>
>Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>  
>


-- 

Regards,
Stanley Chen

Mobile/SMS: +852.61007076
Fax: +852.82066697
Email/MSN: stanley at chen.com.hk


From stanley at chen.com.hk  Tue Nov 28 05:46:07 2006
From: stanley at chen.com.hk (Stanley Chen)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:46:07 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I sent out a mailing,
 how can I know it's done or not?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611251102330078d3de11ef@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200611251102330078d3de11ef@msapiro>
Message-ID: <456BBF0F.8020203@chen.com.hk>

When I read on the logs/smtp, many of the records said "All recipients 
refused: (452, '4.4.5 Insufficient disk space; try again later')", but 
there are actually plenty of the disk space left in the server, why?


Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Jack Stone wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I usually look in ~mailman/qfiles/out and when I see "0", that's good enough for me, although I know there may be some stragglers in the MTA mail queues. But, MM is through with its part.
>>    
>>
>
>
>Prior to Mailman 2.1.9, the entry would be removed from the 'out' queue
>at the start of delivery to the MTA. For a large list, there could be
>some time before delivery to the MTA is complete. Beginning with
>2.1.9, there will be a .bak file in the 'out' queue while delivery to
>the MTA is in process.
>
>You can look in Mailman's 'smtp' log for the "<message-id> smtp
>for nnn recips, completed in tt.ttt seconds" message. When that message
>is logged, Mailman's delivery to the MTA is complete. Prior to the
>logging of that message, there's no way to know how close to done
>Mailman is.
>
>  
>


-- 

Regards,
Stanley Chen

Mobile/SMS: +852.61007076
Fax: +852.82066697
Email/MSN: stanley at chen.com.hk


From bmp at univexsystems.com  Tue Nov 28 05:57:26 2006
From: bmp at univexsystems.com (Brian Parish)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:57:26 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Old lists are working. New lists discard
 allmessages. How to debug?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611270819560859b2c1e113@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200611270819560859b2c1e113@msapiro>
Message-ID: <456BC1B6.70109@univexsystems.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Brian Parish wrote:
>
>   
>> I have a number of lists running happily, but a couple of new ones don't
>> want to play.  For testing purposes I subscribe myself to them and a
>> couple of other addresses.  All message sent to them from subscribed
>> addresses get automatically discarded.  I can see the discards in the
>> vette log, but that doesn't provide a reason why.  Do I need to turn on
>> verbose output or something to get a diagnostic that's meaningful?
>>     
>
>
> I think there are just two ways this can happen.
>
> 1) You are 'moderated' and member_moderation_action is Discard.
>
> 2) Your post is seen as from a nonmember and either you are in
> discard_these_nonmembers or generic_nonmember_action is Discard.
>
> You can get more information in case 2) by setting
> forward_auto_discards to Yes.
>
> (All the above settings except your moderated bit are on Privacy
> options...->Sender filters)
>
>   
Thanks Mark,

But:

1.  I am moderated, but member_moderation_action is hold

2.  If I switch off my moderation bit, the behavior is unaffected

3.  I am subscribed to the list under two addresses and sending from
either I get discarded

4. discard_these_nonmembers is blank and generic_nonmember_action
 is hold

5. forward_auto_discards is set to Yes, so I see the discards, but with no explanation as to why

Given point 4, I don't understand how mailman can do anything but hold the message for approval, whether I am correctly subscribed or not.  I am more than happy to provide admin access to this list if you feel like having a play.

thanks again
Brian 


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Nov 28 08:48:20 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 01:48:20 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and (really) large lists
In-Reply-To: <456BB7CD.2080800@chen.com.hk>
References: <p06240500c18cdcba393a@10.0.1.11>
	<20061125143700.7588.qmail@web82412.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<22b0f2200611271409k65563e15r83afbb0346c52107@mail.gmail.com>
	<456BB7CD.2080800@chen.com.hk>
Message-ID: <p06240502c1919988a26a@[10.0.1.11]>

At 12:15 PM +0800 11/28/06, Stanley Chen wrote:

>  Can you elaborate more? How to seperate the mail queues and drop the
>  filter scans?

The easiest way is to configure your MTA so that it has a different 
and customized configuration that it uses for listening to a 
particular numbered port on the "loopback" interface (a.k.a., 
127.0.0.1), and then you configure Mailman to use only that 
port/interface for all outbound mail.

However, these are questions that are more specific to your MTA, and 
you should be looking for support from their respective 
organizations, using their websites, their FAQs, their documentation, 
their mailing lists, etc....


We can tell you how we've done this sort of thing on our sites, but 
that doesn't necessarily have any bearing on how you could (or 
should) do this for your site.  You need to get help specific to your 
MTA, which isn't something we are likely to be able to help with -- 
at least, not beyond what is already in the FAQs.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Nov 28 08:49:53 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 01:49:53 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I sent out a mailing,
 how can I know it's done or not?
In-Reply-To: <456BBF0F.8020203@chen.com.hk>
References: <PC1760200611251102330078d3de11ef@msapiro>
	<456BBF0F.8020203@chen.com.hk>
Message-ID: <p06240503c1919a49cfaf@[10.0.1.11]>

At 12:46 PM +0800 11/28/06, Stanley Chen wrote:

>  When I read on the logs/smtp, many of the records said "All recipients
>  refused: (452, '4.4.5 Insufficient disk space; try again later')", but
>  there are actually plenty of the disk space left in the server, why?

Again, that's likely to be a question specific to your MTA, and you 
should be looking for support on these issues from the organization 
that is specifically set up to do that.

So, if you use sendmail, go to sendmail.org.  If you use postfix, go 
to postfix.org.  And so on.


We can help you with questions related to Mailman, but we can't 
really help you with questions related to your MTA.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From darkservant at gmail.com  Tue Nov 28 13:43:28 2006
From: darkservant at gmail.com (Dark Servant)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 13:43:28 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman over SSH-Tunnel
Message-ID: <a888e20c0611280443v646f522ao8116a5302eda5eee@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I setup mailman to manage lists at xxx at lists.foo.com

The mailinglists works, but the admininterface gives me a headache.

The Webserver is not accessible from the outsite, so I have to use a
SSH-Tunnel like
ssh -L 8080:localhost:80 me at foo.com

Going to, for example,
http://localhost:8080/mailman/private/mailman/listinfo/knownlist, shows me
the listinformation for a known list - so far so good.
But all links on this page are absolut. The don't use localhost:8080 as
base, they all link to http://lists.foo.com/...

This is a big problem, as lists.foo.com is not accessible - the frontend is
not usable for me.

Can the scripts be configured, not to use this absolute URLs?

/David

From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Tue Nov 28 14:12:58 2006
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:12:58 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman over SSH-Tunnel
In-Reply-To: <a888e20c0611280443v646f522ao8116a5302eda5eee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a888e20c0611280443v646f522ao8116a5302eda5eee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.64.0611281411240.46140@192.168.11.51>

Hello,

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006, Dark Servant wrote:

> The mailinglists works, but the admininterface gives me a headache.
>
> The Webserver is not accessible from the outsite, so I have to use a
> SSH-Tunnel like
> ssh -L 8080:localhost:80 me at foo.com
>
> Going to, for example,
> http://localhost:8080/mailman/private/mailman/listinfo/knownlist, shows me
> the listinformation for a known list - so far so good.
> But all links on this page are absolut. The don't use localhost:8080 as
> base, they all link to http://lists.foo.com/...
>
> This is a big problem, as lists.foo.com is not accessible - the frontend is
> not usable for me.
>
> Can the scripts be configured, not to use this absolute URLs?

You could probably use fix_url.py to change it. But anyway, wouldn't it be 
better for you to set up a VPN connection to that machine? I do that on a 
router level and then once I am in, I can use administrative interface on 
the LAN.

HTH

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

From dan at music.memphis.edu  Tue Nov 28 13:51:45 2006
From: dan at music.memphis.edu (Dan Phillips)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 06:51:45 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Old lists are working. New lists discard
	allmessages. How to debug?
In-Reply-To: <456BC1B6.70109@univexsystems.com>
References: <PC1760200611270819560859b2c1e113@msapiro>
	<456BC1B6.70109@univexsystems.com>
Message-ID: <0C57D1C1-35BB-43F1-9593-B2A8C550F9FB@music.memphis.edu>

On Nov 27, 2006, at 10:57 PM, Brian Parish wrote

>> Brian Parish wrote:
>>
>>> I have a number of lists running happily, but a couple of new  
>>> ones don't
>>> want to play.  For testing purposes I subscribe myself to them and a
>>> couple of other addresses.  All message sent to them from subscribed
>>> addresses get automatically discarded.  I can see the discards in  
>>> the
>>> vette log, but that doesn't provide a reason why.  Do I need to  
>>> turn on
>>> verbose output or something to get a diagnostic that's meaningful?
>>>
> 1.  I am moderated, but member_moderation_action is hold
>
> 2.  If I switch off my moderation bit, the behavior is unaffected
>
> 3.  I am subscribed to the list under two addresses and sending from
> either I get discarded
>
> 4. discard_these_nonmembers is blank and generic_nonmember_action
>  is hold
>
> 5. forward_auto_discards is set to Yes, so I see the discards, but  
> with no explanation as to why
>
> Given point 4, I don't understand how mailman can do anything but  
> hold the message for approval, whether I am correctly subscribed or  
> not.  I am more than happy to provide admin access to this list if  
> you feel like having a play.


Is it possible this is a content filtering issue? If the result of  
filtering is an empty message body, it is discarded in the way you  
describe.

Dan




From bmp at univexsystems.com  Tue Nov 28 14:31:42 2006
From: bmp at univexsystems.com (Brian Parish)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 00:31:42 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Old lists are working. New lists discard
 allmessages. How to debug?
In-Reply-To: <0C57D1C1-35BB-43F1-9593-B2A8C550F9FB@music.memphis.edu>
References: <PC1760200611270819560859b2c1e113@msapiro>
	<456BC1B6.70109@univexsystems.com>
	<0C57D1C1-35BB-43F1-9593-B2A8C550F9FB@music.memphis.edu>
Message-ID: <456C3A3E.7050100@univexsystems.com>

Dan Phillips wrote:
> On Nov 27, 2006, at 10:57 PM, Brian Parish wrote
>
>>> Brian Parish wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have a number of lists running happily, but a couple of new ones
>>>> don't
>>>> want to play.  For testing purposes I subscribe myself to them and a
>>>> couple of other addresses.  All message sent to them from subscribed
>>>> addresses get automatically discarded.  I can see the discards in the
>>>> vette log, but that doesn't provide a reason why.  Do I need to
>>>> turn on
>>>> verbose output or something to get a diagnostic that's meaningful?
>>>>
>> 1.  I am moderated, but member_moderation_action is hold
>>
>> 2.  If I switch off my moderation bit, the behavior is unaffected
>>
>> 3.  I am subscribed to the list under two addresses and sending from
>> either I get discarded
>>
>> 4. discard_these_nonmembers is blank and generic_nonmember_action
>>  is hold
>>
>> 5. forward_auto_discards is set to Yes, so I see the discards, but
>> with no explanation as to why
>>
>> Given point 4, I don't understand how mailman can do anything but
>> hold the message for approval, whether I am correctly subscribed or
>> not.  I am more than happy to provide admin access to this list if
>> you feel like having a play.
>
>
> Is it possible this is a content filtering issue? If the result of
> filtering is an empty message body, it is discarded in the way you
> describe.
>
> Dan
>
>
No I don't think so.  I tried some "real" messages.  i.e. a normal
subject line and a few sentences of normal text.  Still discarded.

Is there really no way of having mailman indicate a reason for
discarding a message?  It would be really helpful to know what criteria
are in play here.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Brian

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Nov 28 15:07:39 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:07:39 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Old lists are working. New lists discard
	allmessages. How to debug?
In-Reply-To: <456C3A3E.7050100@univexsystems.com>
References: <PC1760200611270819560859b2c1e113@msapiro>
	<456BC1B6.70109@univexsystems.com>
	<0C57D1C1-35BB-43F1-9593-B2A8C550F9FB@music.memphis.edu>
	<456C3A3E.7050100@univexsystems.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611280607o5f30727ay7172a8062bba96df@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/28/06, Brian Parish <bmp at univexsystems.com> wrote:
> Is there really no way of having mailman indicate a reason for
> discarding a message?  It would be really helpful to know what criteria
> are in play here.

In fact, Mailman normally does give a reason in the vette log, except
in a few limited circumstances, like that which Dan mentioned.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Nov 28 15:10:10 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:10:10 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman over SSH-Tunnel
In-Reply-To: <a888e20c0611280443v646f522ao8116a5302eda5eee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a888e20c0611280443v646f522ao8116a5302eda5eee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611280610i102e5897h3273c03fb465eaf1@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/28/06, Dark Servant <darkservant at gmail.com> wrote:
> I setup mailman to manage lists at xxx at lists.foo.com
>
> The mailinglists works, but the admininterface gives me a headache.
>
> The Webserver is not accessible from the outsite, so I have to use a
> SSH-Tunnel like
> ssh -L 8080:localhost:80 me at foo.com

Another option might be to use a console-mode web browser, such as
elinks. The Mailman pages are pretty simple in their construction, and
so elinks should be more than adequate for whatever you need to do.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From darkservant at gmail.com  Tue Nov 28 15:38:02 2006
From: darkservant at gmail.com (Dark Servant)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:38:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman over SSH-Tunnel
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.64.0611281411240.46140@192.168.11.51>
References: <a888e20c0611280443v646f522ao8116a5302eda5eee@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.BSF.4.64.0611281411240.46140@192.168.11.51>
Message-ID: <a888e20c0611280638x25e57e81i734076e825bd18b0@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/28/06, Zbigniew Szalbot <zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> On Tue, 28 Nov 2006, Dark Servant wrote:
>
> > The mailinglists works, but the admininterface gives me a headache.
> >
> > The Webserver is not accessible from the outsite, so I have to use a
> > SSH-Tunnel like
> > ssh -L 8080:localhost:80 me at foo.com
> >
> > Going to, for example,
> > http://localhost:8080/mailman/private/mailman/listinfo/knownlist, shows
> me
> > the listinformation for a known list - so far so good.
> > But all links on this page are absolut. The don't use localhost:8080 as
> > base, they all link to http://lists.foo.com/...
> >
> > This is a big problem, as lists.foo.com is not accessible - the frontend
> is
> > not usable for me.
> >
> > Can the scripts be configured, not to use this absolute URLs?
>
> You could probably use fix_url.py to change it. But anyway, wouldn't it be
> better for you to set up a VPN connection to that machine? I do that on a
> router level and then once I am in, I can use administrative interface on
> the LAN.
>
> HTH
>
> --
> Zbigniew Szalbot



Hm.. what exactly does the fix_url script do? Changing the URLs on the
interface as I want?
Am I right that setting the DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN to something like "
http://localhost:8080/mailman" will work for me, as long people always
forward port 8080?

Yes, router level would be nicer, but it should work from any computer
and any network - as long as you have ssh access.

David

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Nov 28 16:46:33 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:46:33 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman over SSH-Tunnel
In-Reply-To: <a888e20c0611280638x25e57e81i734076e825bd18b0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a888e20c0611280443v646f522ao8116a5302eda5eee@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.BSF.4.64.0611281411240.46140@192.168.11.51>
	<a888e20c0611280638x25e57e81i734076e825bd18b0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611280746o1e3877f3p16163b9984cd0019@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/28/06, Dark Servant <darkservant at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hm.. what exactly does the fix_url script do? Changing the URLs on the
> interface as I want?
It changes the URLs on the pages to match the current config.

> Am I right that setting the DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN to something like "
> http://localhost:8080/mailman" will work for me, as long people always
> forward port 8080?
This isn't exactly right, but you've got the general idea.
-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From vernon at comp-wiz.com  Tue Nov 28 18:18:50 2006
From: vernon at comp-wiz.com (Vernon Webb)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:18:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, Fedora Core, 500 Internal Server Error
Message-ID: <20061128171816.M9097@comp-wiz.com>

I've installed mailman using Yum. I'll create a list which sends out the email that 
the list has been created. When I subcribe using the email it works fine, however if I 
click on the link back to the server I get a 500 Internal Server Error.

I look in my Apache logs and get the following error message:

[Wed Nov 22 19:19:56 2006] [error] [client X..118.247] attempt to invoke directory as 
script: /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/ 
[Wed Nov 22 19:21:22 2006] [error] [client X..118.247] Premature end of script 
headers: admin 
[Wed Nov 22 19:22:30 2006] [error] [client X.X.118.247] Premature end of script 
headers: listinfo

Next I look in my /var/log/httpd/suexec.log and I get:

[2006-11-24 10:07:27]: uid: (500/morganfundingcorp) gid: (500/500) cmd: confirm 
[2006-11-24 10:07:27]: file is either setuid or setgid: (/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-
bin/confirm)

So I change from 2755 with User as root, Group as mailman to 0755 and now I get:

[2006-11-25 14:45:43]: uid: (500/morganfundingcorp) gid: (500/500) cmd: admin 
[2006-11-25 14:45:43]: target uid/gid (500/500) mismatch with directory (0/41) or 
program (0/41) 
[2006-11-25 14:45:49]: uid: (500/morganfundingcorp) gid: (500/500) cmd: listinfo 
[2006-11-25 14:45:49]: target uid/gid (500/500) mismatch with directory (0/41) or 
program (0/41)

Anyone have any clues? I am at a dead end.


From esper at sherohman.org  Tue Nov 28 19:37:16 2006
From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:37:16 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing invalid list members
Message-ID: <20061128183716.GF19968@genma.sherohman.org>

Somehow, a user has gotten himself subscribed to one of my lists with
an address of the form foo at bar@hotmail.com.  How do I get rid of this
subscription?

The various web interface options just give an error that this address
is not subscribed (even while showing it on the list of subscribers -
might want to let the left hand know what the right hand is doing) and
remove_members from the command line gives a traceback culminating in
"Mailman.Errors.NotAMemberError: foo at bar", so I'd guess that some address
sanity-checking is what's killing the attempt.

In case it matters, I'm running Mailman from Debian's 2.1.5-8sarge5
package and this user is probably a carryover from an earlier version,
as remove_member's traceback starts in OldStyleMemberships.py.  And
here's the traceback, too, just to be complete:

--- cut here ---
# remove_members my-list foo at bar@hotmail.com
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/sbin/remove_members", line 186, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/sbin/remove_members", line 176, in main
    admin_notif, userack)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 990, in ApprovedDeleteMember
    self.removeMember(emailaddr)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 220, in removeMember
    self.__assertIsMember(member)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 113, in __assertIsMember
    raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
Mailman.Errors.NotAMemberError: foo at bar
--- cut here ---

-- 
I would rather be exposed to the inconvenience attending too much Liberty
than those attending too small degree of it.
  - Thomas Jefferson

From gwaugh at scu.edu.au  Wed Nov 29 00:08:24 2006
From: gwaugh at scu.edu.au (Guy Waugh)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 10:08:24 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Load-balancing mailman between two servers
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c1904bb00191@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <456A46CF.9060203@scu.edu.au> <456A6236.5060507@adelaide.edu.au>
	<456A63AC.5020909@scu.edu.au> <p06240501c1904bb00191@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <456CC168.4060002@scu.edu.au>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 3:03 PM +1100 11/27/06, Guy Waugh quoted Kim Hawtin:
>
>>>  How/where do you share the incoming mail list aliases that sendmail 
>>> checks?
>>>
>>>  Also when you create a new list, how to you update the other hosts 
>>> aliases?
>>>
>>  On each server, in the sendmail aliases file. So, when adding or
>>  removing a list, I have to do the alias changes on each of the two 
>> servers.
>
> Hmm.  With postfix, you can specify multiple alias files, some of 
> which will get auto-rebuilt as necessary by postfix, others which can 
> get manually rebuilt by other processes (like by Mailman, with the 
> standard tools it provides).
>
> It's been a while since I mucked around with sendmail, but I have to 
> believe that the same is possible there.  Indeed, I believe that the 
> technique that is currently used to completely automate this process 
> with postfix was adapted from the technique that previously worked 
> only with sendmail.
>
> You could put that second set of aliases in the NFS shared space, so 
> that you shouldn't have to rebuild that separately on the two boxes.
Yeah, thanks... given I've only got two servers, and we don't 
create/remove a lot of lists, I've never bothered to think about this 8-)
>
>>  One thing I am a bit concerned about is contention on the shared files
>>  between the two servers. If, for example, both servers wanted to update
>>  the same .pck file at the same time, I'm not sure what would happen...
>>  would one server lock the file and the other server wait for the 
>> lock to
>>  be released, does anyone know? Or would chaos ensue?
>
> The developers of Mailman have gone to great lengths to make the 
> system as NFS-proof as possible.  That is to say, it should be 
> possible to share the entire /usr/local/mailman structure via NFS (or 
> wherever you put all the Mailman files, including archives, queue 
> directories, etc...).  It should "just work".
>
> That said, file locking on NFS is problematic during the very best of 
> times, and I believe that the Mailman developers have gone to great 
> lengths to try to work around that.  But, by putting that stuff on 
> NFS, you are increasing the chances that you'll run into a situation 
> where you get lock contention, or maybe stale locks that will need to 
> be cleared out.  You will increase the amount of system maintenance 
> that you have to do -- that's simply unavoidable.
>
> And a very great deal depends on your NFS server.  Putting all this 
> stuff on NFS can cut your throughput that you can handle by a great 
> deal -- orders of magnitude or more, and that's if you've got a 
> high-end mega-expensive dedicated NFS fileserver from the likes of 
> EMC, Auspex, or Network Appliance.  Just keep this in mind as you 
> program for redundancy.
>
>
> I'm not saying that you can't put things on NFS, or that it's even 
> "unwise".  I am saying that everything is a set of trade-offs, and 
> you've got to understand what it is that you're trading for what.
>
OK, thanks Brad...

I'm still wondering whether I should be NFS-sharing the qfiles 
directory. I haven't delved into the Mailman source code to try to 
figure this out, but...

If, for example, a list post is held for (say) moderation in one 
server's qfiles directory (if this is in fact where held posts are 
kept?), and a list administrator accesses the Mailman web interface on 
the other server and approves the post, will the second (web interface) 
server be able to find the held post on the first server? I can't 
imagine that it would be able to find the post, if it is the case that 
posts held for moderation (and for other reasons, like posts by 
non-members to a member-only list etc. etc.) are held in the qfiles 
directory.

Maybe I should change my setup like you outline above, such that the 
*entire* Mailman installation is NFS-shared between both servers? The 
only anomaly to be dealt with here, AFAIK, is that Mailman writes a 
master-qrunner.pid file to the data directory, but I can get around 
that. I'd really prefer to leave it roughly the way I already have it, 
as I can upgrade Mailman on one server and test it while the old version 
is still running on the other server.

Thanks,
Guy.

-- 
Guy Waugh
Unix System Administrator
IT&TS, Southern Cross University
Lismore, NSW, Australia
Email: gwaugh at scu.edu.au
Ph.: +61 2 6620 3196
Fax: +61 2 6620 3033


From barry at python.org  Wed Nov 29 00:30:22 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:30:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Load-balancing mailman between two servers
In-Reply-To: <456CC168.4060002@scu.edu.au>
References: <456A46CF.9060203@scu.edu.au> <456A6236.5060507@adelaide.edu.au>
	<456A63AC.5020909@scu.edu.au> <p06240501c1904bb00191@[10.0.1.11]>
	<456CC168.4060002@scu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <CA1A6030-3792-4952-85D9-89F055B7E764@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Nov 28, 2006, at 6:08 PM, Guy Waugh wrote:

> I'm still wondering whether I should be NFS-sharing the qfiles
> directory. I haven't delved into the Mailman source code to try to
> figure this out, but...

You should be able to NFS share the qfiles directory, but you want to  
be careful about how you set up your qrunners.  However, this  
probably won't help you with what I think you really want to do  
(IIUC), which is load balance the web interface.

First, pending messages are not kept in qfiles -- that's only for  
messages that are being processed by the mail delivery subsystem.  A  
message that's waiting for moderation will get dequeued until it's  
approved, at which point it will be re-queued into the appropriate  
qfile directory.

Access to the "databases" which manage these pending files are all  
protected by Mailman's lockfile implementation, which has had a long  
stable history and a high probability of being NFS-safe, modulo bugs  
in specific NFS implementations of course.  So as long as your web  
requests can be completed within the lock timeouts, you should be  
able to load-balance admindb management across multiple web servers.   
Of course, while one server is accessing a list, no other processing  
for that list will occur on any other machine, as those other  
machines wait for the first machine's list lock to be released.   
However, processing involving other lists can still occur, as can  
outgoing mail delivery, which does not need to acquire a list lock.

The story with qfiles is this: every qfile lives in its own little  
slice of sha1 hash space and each hash slice is (supposed to be)  
owned by exactly one qrunner process.  This allows the qrunner to  
process the messages in its hash slice without having to deal with  
pesky locks which slows things down as contentions are serialized (a  
good thing when dealing with databases, a bad thing when you're  
trying to churn out a stream of messages).  Thus, if you're looking  
to load balance qfile directory processing, you can still do that if  
you assign each qrunner process on each machine a unique slice of the  
hash space -- it must be unique across all machines.  IOW, machine 1  
could handle the odd slices of qfile/in while machine 2 could handle  
the even slices.  Or you could have 8 qrunners on each machine and  
slice up qfiles/in 16 ways (the implementation requires a factor of 2  
in the number of hash slices).

Of course, if machine 1 went down, all the messages in its hash  
slices would sit unprocessed, but it would be a fairly simple matter  
to reconfigure machine 2 to handle machine 1's slices, or to bring up  
a fallback machine to handle those slices in the meantime.

That's the intent anyway <wink>.  I hope this makes sense and helps  
you better plan your operational environment.

- -Barry

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From gwaugh at scu.edu.au  Wed Nov 29 00:59:50 2006
From: gwaugh at scu.edu.au (Guy Waugh)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 10:59:50 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Load-balancing mailman between two servers
In-Reply-To: <CA1A6030-3792-4952-85D9-89F055B7E764@python.org>
References: <456A46CF.9060203@scu.edu.au> <456A6236.5060507@adelaide.edu.au>
	<456A63AC.5020909@scu.edu.au> <p06240501c1904bb00191@[10.0.1.11]>
	<456CC168.4060002@scu.edu.au>
	<CA1A6030-3792-4952-85D9-89F055B7E764@python.org>
Message-ID: <456CCD76.7090101@scu.edu.au>

Barry Warsaw wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Nov 28, 2006, at 6:08 PM, Guy Waugh wrote:
>
>> I'm still wondering whether I should be NFS-sharing the qfiles
>> directory. I haven't delved into the Mailman source code to try to
>> figure this out, but...
>
> You should be able to NFS share the qfiles directory, but you want to 
> be careful about how you set up your qrunners.  However, this probably 
> won't help you with what I think you really want to do (IIUC), which 
> is load balance the web interface.
>
> First, pending messages are not kept in qfiles -- that's only for 
> messages that are being processed by the mail delivery subsystem.  A 
> message that's waiting for moderation will get dequeued until it's 
> approved, at which point it will be re-queued into the appropriate 
> qfile directory.
>
> Access to the "databases" which manage these pending files are all 
> protected by Mailman's lockfile implementation, which has had a long 
> stable history and a high probability of being NFS-safe, modulo bugs 
> in specific NFS implementations of course.  So as long as your web 
> requests can be completed within the lock timeouts, you should be able 
> to load-balance admindb management across multiple web servers.  Of 
> course, while one server is accessing a list, no other processing for 
> that list will occur on any other machine, as those other machines 
> wait for the first machine's list lock to be released.  However, 
> processing involving other lists can still occur, as can outgoing mail 
> delivery, which does not need to acquire a list lock.
>
> The story with qfiles is this: every qfile lives in its own little 
> slice of sha1 hash space and each hash slice is (supposed to be) owned 
> by exactly one qrunner process.  This allows the qrunner to process 
> the messages in its hash slice without having to deal with pesky locks 
> which slows things down as contentions are serialized (a good thing 
> when dealing with databases, a bad thing when you're trying to churn 
> out a stream of messages).  Thus, if you're looking to load balance 
> qfile directory processing, you can still do that if you assign each 
> qrunner process on each machine a unique slice of the hash space -- it 
> must be unique across all machines.  IOW, machine 1 could handle the 
> odd slices of qfile/in while machine 2 could handle the even slices.  
> Or you could have 8 qrunners on each machine and slice up qfiles/in 16 
> ways (the implementation requires a factor of 2 in the number of hash 
> slices).
>
> Of course, if machine 1 went down, all the messages in its hash slices 
> would sit unprocessed, but it would be a fairly simple matter to 
> reconfigure machine 2 to handle machine 1's slices, or to bring up a 
> fallback machine to handle those slices in the meantime.
>
> That's the intent anyway <wink>.  I hope this makes sense and helps 
> you better plan your operational environment.
>
> - -Barry
Great, thanks Barry...

So, it sounds like all information about pending posts etc. is held in 
the databases in the directories I'm already NFS-sharing (i.e. archives, 
data and lists), and the qfiles directory is specific to the qrunner 
running on that machine, so I don't need to worry about NFS-sharing any 
of the other Mailman directories.

Yeehoo!

Thanks again,
Guy.

-- 
Guy Waugh
Unix System Administrator
IT&TS, Southern Cross University
Lismore, NSW, Australia
Email: gwaugh at scu.edu.au
Ph.: +61 2 6620 3196
Fax: +61 2 6620 3033


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Nov 29 00:32:29 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:32:29 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Load-balancing mailman between two servers
In-Reply-To: <456CC168.4060002@scu.edu.au>
References: <456A46CF.9060203@scu.edu.au>
	<456A6236.5060507@adelaide.edu.au>	<456A63AC.5020909@scu.edu.au>
	<p06240501c1904bb00191@[10.0.1.11]> <456CC168.4060002@scu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <p06240500c192759263ce@[10.0.1.11]>

At 10:08 AM +1100 11/29/06, Guy Waugh wrote:

>  I'm still wondering whether I should be NFS-sharing the qfiles
>  directory. I haven't delved into the Mailman source code to try to
>  figure this out, but...

In theory, it should work.  I wouldn't do it myself, because of the 
contention and locking issues, but it should work.

>  If, for example, a list post is held for (say) moderation in one
>  server's qfiles directory (if this is in fact where held posts are
>  kept?), and a list administrator accesses the Mailman web interface on
>  the other server and approves the post, will the second (web interface)
>  server be able to find the held post on the first server? I can't
>  imagine that it would be able to find the post, if it is the case that
>  posts held for moderation (and for other reasons, like posts by
>  non-members to a member-only list etc. etc.) are held in the qfiles
>  directory.

I believe that you are correct -- if the post is held on only one 
server, and you happen to log into the other server to approve the 
post, then the second machine would not see that post to approve it.

>  Maybe I should change my setup like you outline above, such that the
>  *entire* Mailman installation is NFS-shared between both servers?

My understanding is that it should work, modula the additional 
problems caused by putting things like shared queues on NFS (e.g., 
file contention, locking, etc...).

>  The
>  only anomaly to be dealt with here, AFAIK, is that Mailman writes a
>  master-qrunner.pid file to the data directory, but I can get around
>  that. I'd really prefer to leave it roughly the way I already have it,
>  as I can upgrade Mailman on one server and test it while the old version
>  is still running on the other server.

To be honest, I've never done it myself, and we don't use it on 
python.org (the home of the mailman-* lists).

So, I can't tell you how well it will or will not work, or what the 
precise little quirks will be.  I can tell you about the typical 
types of issues that I know about in general with NFS, and how I 
would expect those to apply with this type of usage.

That said, I believe that there are some people on the list who are 
doing this sort of thing (I mean, this topic has come up a few times 
before), and I believe that most of them are doing the simple thing 
of just sharing the entire /usr/local/mailman/ hierarchy between the 
target systems.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Nov 29 01:08:02 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:08:02 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Load-balancing mailman between two servers
In-Reply-To: <CA1A6030-3792-4952-85D9-89F055B7E764@python.org>
References: <456A46CF.9060203@scu.edu.au>
	<456A6236.5060507@adelaide.edu.au>	<456A63AC.5020909@scu.edu.au>
	<p06240501c1904bb00191@[10.0.1.11]>	<456CC168.4060002@scu.edu.au>
	<CA1A6030-3792-4952-85D9-89F055B7E764@python.org>
Message-ID: <p06240502c1927f6ab2ec@[10.0.1.11]>

At 6:30 PM -0500 11/28/06, Barry Warsaw wrote:

>  Of course, if machine 1 went down, all the messages in its hash
>  slices would sit unprocessed, but it would be a fairly simple matter
>  to reconfigure machine 2 to handle machine 1's slices, or to bring up
>  a fallback machine to handle those slices in the meantime.

Ahh, okay.  Cool.  I knew that there was a hashing scheme, but I had 
thought the intent was to use that for allowing multiple queue 
runners for each queue, on a single machine.  I wasn't aware that the 
same mechanism would be used for splitting the queues across servers 
via NFS -- allowing you to avoid the locking problems I mentioned 
earlier.

Cool.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From ge at linuxbox.org  Wed Nov 29 01:10:12 2006
From: ge at linuxbox.org (Gadi Evron)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:10:12 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Load-balancing mailman between two servers
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c1927f6ab2ec@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0611281810070.18881-100000@linuxbox.org>

Is this in the FAQ anywhere?

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 6:30 PM -0500 11/28/06, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> 
> >  Of course, if machine 1 went down, all the messages in its hash
> >  slices would sit unprocessed, but it would be a fairly simple matter
> >  to reconfigure machine 2 to handle machine 1's slices, or to bring up
> >  a fallback machine to handle those slices in the meantime.
> 
> Ahh, okay.  Cool.  I knew that there was a hashing scheme, but I had 
> thought the intent was to use that for allowing multiple queue 
> runners for each queue, on a single machine.  I wasn't aware that the 
> same mechanism would be used for splitting the queues across servers 
> via NFS -- allowing you to avoid the locking problems I mentioned 
> earlier.
> 
> Cool.
> 
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>
> 
> Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
> mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
> e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
> with the current address.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ge%40linuxbox.org
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Nov 29 01:14:25 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:14:25 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Load-balancing mailman between two servers
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0611281810070.18881-100000@linuxbox.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0611281810070.18881-100000@linuxbox.org>
Message-ID: <p06240503c19280e80c8d@[10.0.1.11]>

At 6:10 PM -0600 11/28/06, Gadi Evron wrote:

>  Is this in the FAQ anywhere?

Searching the FAQ wizard for "NFS" doesn't turn up any hits, so I 
would venture a guess to say that this issue is not addressed 
anywhere.  I'll summarize Barry's response and put in a link.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Nov 29 01:56:21 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:56:21 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Load-balancing mailman between two servers
In-Reply-To: <p06240503c19280e80c8d@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0611281810070.18881-100000@linuxbox.org>
	<p06240503c19280e80c8d@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <p06240504c1928afc6935@[10.0.1.11]>

At 6:14 PM -0600 11/28/06, Brad Knowles quoted Gadi Evron:

>>   Is this in the FAQ anywhere?
>
>  Searching the FAQ wizard for "NFS" doesn't turn up any hits, so I
>  would venture a guess to say that this issue is not addressed anywhere.
>  I'll summarize Barry's response and put in a link.

Okay, FAQ 4.75 has been created for this subject, see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.075.htp>.

I would appreciate any feedback you may have.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From barry at python.org  Wed Nov 29 01:12:33 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:12:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Load-balancing mailman between two servers
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c192759263ce@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <456A46CF.9060203@scu.edu.au>
	<456A6236.5060507@adelaide.edu.au>	<456A63AC.5020909@scu.edu.au>
	<p06240501c1904bb00191@[10.0.1.11]> <456CC168.4060002@scu.edu.au>
	<p06240500c192759263ce@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <1EACA484-5BCC-40E6-B747-BDE709564B09@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Nov 28, 2006, at 6:32 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> I believe that you are correct -- if the post is held on only one
> server, and you happen to log into the other server to approve the
> post, then the second machine would not see that post to approve it.

Brad thanks, that reminds me of one other thing!  Say you and I both  
hit the admindb page at the same time and we each get the same list  
of all pendings, but you're quicker on the draw than I am in  
submitting your approvals, discards, etc.  When I click submit, any  
message you didn't defer will be gone by the time my web request is  
processed.  Mailman should be robust enough (now ;) to just ignore  
those and move on.

This isn't really any different when you're load balancing though.

- -Barry

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From barry at python.org  Wed Nov 29 01:21:58 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:21:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Load-balancing mailman between two servers
In-Reply-To: <p06240503c19280e80c8d@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0611281810070.18881-100000@linuxbox.org>
	<p06240503c19280e80c8d@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <1BCFAE7D-0671-4168-81AF-35F78973A1E3@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Nov 28, 2006, at 7:14 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 6:10 PM -0600 11/28/06, Gadi Evron wrote:
>
>>  Is this in the FAQ anywhere?
>
> Searching the FAQ wizard for "NFS" doesn't turn up any hits, so I  
> would venture a guess to say that this issue is not addressed  
> anywhere.  I'll summarize Barry's response and put in a link.

Thanks Brad!  Oh and please do let us know how the NFS arrangement  
works for y'all.  Some of this will change in the next release in  
that I'm hoping we'll be able to remove the quotes around "database"  
in my previous message. :)  The idea being that if you wanted to,  
you'd stick most, if not all, the stuff currently being protected by  
a list lock into A Real Client/Server Database.

- -Barry

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From darkservant at gmail.com  Wed Nov 29 11:16:03 2006
From: darkservant at gmail.com (Dark Servant)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 11:16:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman over SSH-Tunnel
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00611280746o1e3877f3p16163b9984cd0019@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a888e20c0611280443v646f522ao8116a5302eda5eee@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.BSF.4.64.0611281411240.46140@192.168.11.51>
	<a888e20c0611280638x25e57e81i734076e825bd18b0@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00611280746o1e3877f3p16163b9984cd0019@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a888e20c0611290216q371ed46ncc5d48397a9e213d@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/28/06, Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/28/06, Dark Servant <darkservant at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hm.. what exactly does the fix_url script do? Changing the URLs on the
> > interface as I want?
> It changes the URLs on the pages to match the current config.
>
> > Am I right that setting the DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN to something like "
> > http://localhost:8080/mailman" will work for me, as long people always
> > forward port 8080?
> This isn't exactly right, but you've got the general idea.
> --
> - Patrick Bogen



Ok.. after some twiddling, I came up with this configuration:
mm_cfg.py:
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = '
http://localhost:8080/%s/mailman/<http://localhost:8080/%25s/../mailman/>
'
add_virtualhost('localhost','lists.foo.com')

I also had to add
lists.foo.com/pipermail
lists.foo.com/mailman
as aliases to http.conf

The virtualhost allows me to create xxx at lists.foo.com lists using the
localhost-ssh-tunnel.

That seems to work on first look. Anyone already sees some problems I may
face soon?

David

From bmp at univexsystems.com  Wed Nov 29 13:26:22 2006
From: bmp at univexsystems.com (Brian Parish)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 23:26:22 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Old lists are working. New lists discard
 allmessages. How to debug?
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00611280607o5f30727ay7172a8062bba96df@mail.gmail.com>
References: <PC1760200611270819560859b2c1e113@msapiro>	
	<456BC1B6.70109@univexsystems.com>	
	<0C57D1C1-35BB-43F1-9593-B2A8C550F9FB@music.memphis.edu>	
	<456C3A3E.7050100@univexsystems.com>
	<6fbe3da00611280607o5f30727ay7172a8062bba96df@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <456D7C6E.7040101@univexsystems.com>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
> On 11/28/06, Brian Parish <bmp at univexsystems.com> wrote:
>> Is there really no way of having mailman indicate a reason for
>> discarding a message?  It would be really helpful to know what criteria
>> are in play here.
>
> In fact, Mailman normally does give a reason in the vette log, except
> in a few limited circumstances, like that which Dan mentioned.
>
I did a bit more digging and found that the lists which don't work have
no entries in /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

Obviously a problem!  Tried creating another list and found that entries
were created in /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman and indeed, that
one works (although with other issues, which I'll post on separately). 
Having gone through the same process for both, I am at a loss to
understand this, but does this info add anything to the understanding of
anyone else?

Brian

From bmp at univexsystems.com  Wed Nov 29 13:32:15 2006
From: bmp at univexsystems.com (Brian Parish)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 23:32:15 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught bounce notification loop
Message-ID: <456D7DCF.70603@univexsystems.com>

With *bounce_processing set to Yes on one list I get:
*

The attached message was received as a bounce...

messages, with the same message attached many times.  i.e. The Uncaught bounce notification IS the attached message.  These continue streaming out until I turn off *bounce_processing

Clues for the clueless?

TIA
Brian
*



From ifetch at du.edu  Wed Nov 29 14:51:20 2006
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 06:51:20 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Load-balancing mailman between two servers
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c1904bb00191@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <456A46CF.9060203@scu.edu.au> <456A6236.5060507@adelaide.edu.au>
	<456A63AC.5020909@scu.edu.au> <p06240501c1904bb00191@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <20061129064045.M32217@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

Hello,


On Mon, 27 Nov 2006, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 3:03 PM +1100 11/27/06, Guy Waugh quoted Kim Hawtin:
>
>>>  How/where do you share the incoming mail list aliases that sendmail checks?
>>>
>>>  Also when you create a new list, how to you update the other hosts aliases?
>>>
>>  On each server, in the sendmail aliases file. So, when adding or
>>  removing a list, I have to do the alias changes on each of the two servers.
>
> Hmm.  With postfix, you can specify multiple alias files, some of
> which will get auto-rebuilt as necessary by postfix, others which can
> get manually rebuilt by other processes (like by Mailman, with the
> standard tools it provides).
>
> It's been a while since I mucked around with sendmail, but I have to
> believe that the same is possible there.  Indeed, I believe that the
> technique that is currently used to completely automate this process
> with postfix was adapted from the technique that previously worked
> only with sendmail.


    i'm doing this with Sendmail - you can add something like the following 
to your .mc file (E.G. sendmail.mc):

define(`ALIAS_FILE',`/etc/mail/aliases,/mail/mailman/sendmail/sendmail-aliases')dnl

    The first file mentioned (/etc/mail/aliases) is typically where 
sendmail looks for it's aliases.  The second 
(/mail/mailman/sendmail/mailman-aliases) lives on shared storage (your NFS 
server).  When you run newaliases, or sendmail -bi (same thing) on either 
machine, the shared sendmail-aliases.db file will be rebuilt.

    You would of course have to move your mailman aliases to the other 
aliases file, and change your procedure for creating new lists so that the 
new aliases also end up in the new aliases file.

    I believe you're running RHEL?  If you're wanting to give this a try 
with sendmail, you need to have the sendmail-cf RPM installed.  Then you 
can backup sendmail.mc and sendmail.cf, change sendmail.mc, and run make 
sendmail.cf to recreate the .cf file.


Thanks,

Ivan.


From vernon at comp-wiz.com  Wed Nov 29 15:30:32 2006
From: vernon at comp-wiz.com (Vernon Webb)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:30:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, Fedora Core, 500 Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <20061128171816.M9097@comp-wiz.com>
References: <20061128171816.M9097@comp-wiz.com>
Message-ID: <20061129142802.M83354@comp-wiz.com>

I'm sorry to re-visit this so soon, but no one has repsonded and I'm really lost on 
this one. I have searched google over and over for every possible solution and keep 
coming up empty handed. I know this is a suexec problem but don't know how to resolve 
it. Can anyone at least point me in the right direction?

Thanks

---------- Forwarded Message ----------- 
From: "Vernon Webb" <vernon at comp-wiz.com> 
To: mailman-users at python.org 
Sent: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:18:50 -0500 
Subject: Mailman, Fedora Core, 500 Internal Server Error

I've installed mailman using Yum. I'll create a list which sends out the email that 
the list has been created. When I subcribe using the email it works fine, however if I 
click on the link back to the server I get a 500 Internal Server Error.

I look in my Apache logs and get the following error message:

[Wed Nov 22 19:19:56 2006] [error] [client X..118.247] attempt to invoke directory as 
script: /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/ 
[Wed Nov 22 19:21:22 2006] [error] [client X..118.247] Premature end of script 
headers: admin 
[Wed Nov 22 19:22:30 2006] [error] [client X.X.118.247] Premature end of script 
headers: listinfo

Next I look in my /var/log/httpd/suexec.log and I get:

[2006-11-24 10:07:27]: uid: (500/morganfundingcorp) gid: (500/500) cmd: confirm 
[2006-11-24 10:07:27]: file is either setuid or setgid: (/usr/lib/mailman/cgi- 
bin/confirm)

So I change from 2755 with User as root, Group as mailman to 0755 and now I get:

[2006-11-25 14:45:43]: uid: (500/morganfundingcorp) gid: (500/500) cmd: admin 
[2006-11-25 14:45:43]: target uid/gid (500/500) mismatch with directory (0/41) or 
program (0/41) 
[2006-11-25 14:45:49]: uid: (500/morganfundingcorp) gid: (500/500) cmd: listinfo 
[2006-11-25 14:45:49]: target uid/gid (500/500) mismatch with directory (0/41) or 
program (0/41)

Anyone have any clues? I am at a dead end.

------- End of Forwarded Message -------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vernon Webb 
(201) 703-1232 
web designs & web hosting by comp-wiz.com, inc. 
Information in this transmission is privileged & confidential. It is intended for the 
use of the individual or entity named above. Any review, dissemination, disclosure, 
alteration, printing, circulation or transmission of this email or it's attachments is 
prohibited and unlawful.


From petern at africaonline.co.zw  Wed Nov 29 16:07:14 2006
From: petern at africaonline.co.zw (Peter Nyamukusa)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:07:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, Fedora Core, 500 Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <20061129142802.M83354@comp-wiz.com>
References: <20061128171816.M9097@comp-wiz.com>
	<20061129142802.M83354@comp-wiz.com>
Message-ID: <200611291707.14313.petern@africaonline.co.zw>

Hi
what entries do you have in /etc/sysconfig/selinux

Regards

Peter

On Wednesday 29 November 2006 16:30, Vernon Webb wrote:
> I'm sorry to re-visit this so soon, but no one has repsonded and I'm really
> lost on this one. I have searched google over and over for every possible
> solution and keep coming up empty handed. I know this is a suexec problem
> but don't know how to resolve it. Can anyone at least point me in the right
> direction?
>
> Thanks
>
> ---------- Forwarded Message -----------
> From: "Vernon Webb" <vernon at comp-wiz.com>
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Sent: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:18:50 -0500
> Subject: Mailman, Fedora Core, 500 Internal Server Error
>
> I've installed mailman using Yum. I'll create a list which sends out the
> email that the list has been created. When I subcribe using the email it
> works fine, however if I click on the link back to the server I get a 500
> Internal Server Error.
>
> I look in my Apache logs and get the following error message:
>
> [Wed Nov 22 19:19:56 2006] [error] [client X..118.247] attempt to invoke
> directory as script: /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
> [Wed Nov 22 19:21:22 2006] [error] [client X..118.247] Premature end of
> script headers: admin
> [Wed Nov 22 19:22:30 2006] [error] [client X.X.118.247] Premature end of
> script headers: listinfo
>
> Next I look in my /var/log/httpd/suexec.log and I get:
>
> [2006-11-24 10:07:27]: uid: (500/morganfundingcorp) gid: (500/500) cmd:
> confirm [2006-11-24 10:07:27]: file is either setuid or setgid:
> (/usr/lib/mailman/cgi- bin/confirm)
>
> So I change from 2755 with User as root, Group as mailman to 0755 and now I
> get:
>
> [2006-11-25 14:45:43]: uid: (500/morganfundingcorp) gid: (500/500) cmd:
> admin [2006-11-25 14:45:43]: target uid/gid (500/500) mismatch with
> directory (0/41) or program (0/41)
> [2006-11-25 14:45:49]: uid: (500/morganfundingcorp) gid: (500/500) cmd:
> listinfo [2006-11-25 14:45:49]: target uid/gid (500/500) mismatch with
> directory (0/41) or program (0/41)
>
> Anyone have any clues? I am at a dead end.
>
> ------- End of Forwarded Message -------
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vernon Webb
> (201) 703-1232
> web designs & web hosting by comp-wiz.com, inc.
> Information in this transmission is privileged & confidential. It is
> intended for the use of the individual or entity named above. Any review,
> dissemination, disclosure, alteration, printing, circulation or
> transmission of this email or it's attachments is prohibited and unlawful.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/petern%40africaonline.
>co.zw
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp




From kencheney at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 29 17:53:55 2006
From: kencheney at yahoo.com (Ken Cheney)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:53:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private lists and trouble shooting unsubscribes
Message-ID: <246069.96110.qm@web53203.mail.yahoo.com>

First let me say I am very new to Mailman, very new to Linux, and very new to mailing lists.  (it took me 2 days to get the listserv to even send out :( )
   
  I have the listserv up and sending to my lists; however, I would like to make the lists only emailable from the list owner.  I saw one post that referred to a FAQ but it was not very clear to me on how to do it. So, how do I limit the person that can send to the mailing list to only the list owner/administrator/moderator?  I have set all list members to be moderated, yet they dont show up on the "tend to pending moderator tasks" link.
   
  Any help would be appreciated.
   
   
   
   

 
---------------------------------
Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

From kencheney at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 29 17:54:59 2006
From: kencheney at yahoo.com (Ken Cheney)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:54:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-leave@domain.com isnt working
Message-ID: <39895.96598.qm@web53203.mail.yahoo.com>

When I send email to listname-leave at domain.com the names don't unsubscribe from the lists.
   
  Why would that be?
   
  Thanks.

 	
---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Nov 29 18:28:39 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 11:28:39 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private lists and trouble shooting unsubscribes
In-Reply-To: <246069.96110.qm@web53203.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <246069.96110.qm@web53203.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611290928t9d8b919g8b5c597342a3ce5e@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/29/06, Ken Cheney <kencheney at yahoo.com> wrote:
> First let me say I am very new to Mailman, very new to Linux, and very new to mailing
> lists.  (it took me 2 days to get the listserv to even send out :( )
>
>   I have the listserv up and sending to my lists; however, I would like to make the lists only
> emailable from the list owner.  I saw one post that referred to a FAQ but it was not very
> clear to me on how to do it. So, how do I limit the person that can send to the mailing list
> to only the list owner/administrator/moderator?  I have set all list members to be
> moderated, yet they dont show up on the "tend to pending moderator tasks" link.

What are 'they'? The users don't show up. If a moderated user sends a
message, and member_moderation_action is set to 'Hold,' then the
message will show up in the admin interface.

The general way to do what you want is: set all members to moderated.
Set 'default_member_moderation' for the list to 'Yes'. Set
'member_moderation_action' to 'Hold' if you want to see attempts by
the members to post, and have the opportunity to approve them. Set it
to 'reject,' otherwise, which will bounce the message and tell the
user why. To allow certain users (based on email address) to
automatically post, add their email addresses to
accept_these_nonmembers. This is probably the easiest, although least
secure, way to do this.

The better (though potentially more complex and difficult) way to do
this is to include the list password on any emails sent, which will
automatically bypass the sender filters. There are two ways to do
this: Either as a header in the email (this can be difficult,
depending on which email client you're using), or as the first line in
the email (this can be very tricky if you're sending HTML email. For
normal text, it should be fairly foolproof). Either way, the
header/line should look like:

Approved: <list password>

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From rmcleran at ix.netcom.com  Wed Nov 29 19:11:20 2006
From: rmcleran at ix.netcom.com (Bob McLeran)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:11:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using spam filters on subject line
Message-ID: <456DCD48.7050202@ix.netcom.com>

Using Mailman 2.1.9 as a list administrator.

Trying to block posts with string "test" in the subject line but would 
like to automatically approve certain subjects with the same string, 
such as "testing engine components" - is this possible under either 
"Header Filter Rules" or "Bounce Matching Headers" in the Privacy 
Options/Spam Filters section?

Bob


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Nov 29 19:25:46 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:25:46 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private lists and trouble shooting unsubscribes
In-Reply-To: <381997.56833.qm@web53208.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <6fbe3da00611290928t9d8b919g8b5c597342a3ce5e@mail.gmail.com>
	<381997.56833.qm@web53208.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611291025o5fca8b3cp593375bf465f2118@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/29/06, Ken Cheney <kencheney at yahoo.com> wrote:
> The "they" i was referring to are the messages that moderated members of the
> list sent to the list.  "they" dont show up in the Tend to pending moderator
> requests list link off of the admin page as I would expect them to.

Are you sure the messages were held, and not discarded or rejected?
Check the 'member_moderation_action' setting I mentioned.

Also, please try to keep your replies on-list, so that others can
chime in when I'm wrong about things, (which is fairly often! :)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu  Wed Nov 29 22:11:17 2006
From: jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu (Jana Nguyen)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:11:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to make a list private?
Message-ID: <456DF775.5040608@ncmir.ucsd.edu>

Hi,

I want to make my mailing list private for admin to view only.  But my 
list keep on displaying publically at <host>mailman/lisinfo.

Although, I've selected the "Private options" of the configuration admin 
page to set "Who can view subscription list?" to "List Admin Only".  But
when I got back to the <host>mailman/listinfo the list are still displayed.

Any help are appreciated.

Thanks!

From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Wed Nov 29 22:35:04 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:35:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and (really) large lists
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c1919988a26a@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <C1933D08.103D9%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 11/27/06 11:48 PM, "Brad Knowles" <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:

> The easiest way is to configure your MTA so that it has a different
> and customized configuration that it uses for listening to a
> particular numbered port on the "loopback" interface (a.k.a.,
> 127.0.0.1), and then you configure Mailman to use only that
> port/interface for all outbound mail.

And avoid 127.0.0.2

That IP is included--for testing purposes--in many DNS-based blocking lists.
So sites which check all Received: headers in messages are likely to see
127.0.0.2 as a Bad Thing[tm] and reject/discard/mark as spam messages
containing it.

  --John



From vernon at comp-wiz.com  Wed Nov 29 23:08:27 2006
From: vernon at comp-wiz.com (Vernon Webb)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:08:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, Fedora Core, 500 Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <200611291707.14313.petern@africaonline.co.zw>
References: <20061128171816.M9097@comp-wiz.com>
	<20061129142802.M83354@comp-wiz.com>
	<200611291707.14313.petern@africaonline.co.zw>
Message-ID: <20061129220755.M49889@comp-wiz.com>

# This file controls the state of SELinux on the system. 
# SELINUX= can take one of these three values: 
# enforcing - SELinux security policy is enforced. 
# permissive - SELinux prints warnings instead of enforcing. 
# disabled - SELinux is fully disabled. 
SELINUX=disabled 
# SELINUXTYPE= type of policy in use. Possible values are: 
# targeted - Only targeted network daemons are protected. 
# strict - Full SELinux protection. 
SELINUXTYPE=targeted 


---------- Original Message ----------- 
From: Peter Nyamukusa <petern at africaonline.co.zw> 
To: "Vernon Webb" <vernon at comp-wiz.com>, mailman-users at python.org 
Sent: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:07:14 +0200 
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, Fedora Core, 500 Internal Server Error

> Hi 
> what entries do you have in /etc/sysconfig/selinux 
> 
> Regards 
> 
> Peter 


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Nov 29 23:33:58 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 16:33:58 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to make a list private?
In-Reply-To: <456DF775.5040608@ncmir.ucsd.edu>
References: <456DF775.5040608@ncmir.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611291433u6ee3cbadwf73d8d9dc6590bfd@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/29/06, Jana Nguyen <jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I want to make my mailing list private for admin to view only.  But my
> list keep on displaying publically at <host>mailman/lisinfo.

What you're looking for is the 'advertised' setting on the 'Privacy
Options' page of the admin interface. Set this to 'no'.


-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From dave at boost-consulting.com  Thu Nov 30 00:10:37 2006
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 18:10:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mm-handler setup, new domain
Message-ID: <871wnl4zo2.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>


I am trying to set up Mailman at boost-consulting.com, which uses
Sendmail.

The README states:

  mm-handler is only really useful when it mostly "owns" its mail
  domain

So I am inclined to simply point a DNS record for
lists.boost-consulting.com at the same IP address and go from there.
Is there any reason that shouldn't work out peachily, and are there
any pitfalls I need to watch out for?

Thanks in advance,

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Nov 30 02:22:55 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:22:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private lists and trouble shooting unsubscribes
In-Reply-To: <782107.64897.qm@web53202.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <782107.64897.qm@web53202.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611291722t1f087fbn34258489b741bfad@mail.gmail.com>

This is where you want to adjust the setting I mentioned. If it's
already set to Hold (and not Discard or Reject), then there is
probably something else wrong, which is why you need to keep the
conversation on-list. As willing as I am to help, I don't have perfect
knowledge of Mailman.

- Patrick Bogen

On 11/29/06, Ken Cheney <kencheney at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I think I found it... Under privacy|sender filters.
>
> Ken Cheney <kencheney at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I will send the solution to the list after this email because I dont want
> the list subscribers to see how stupid I am at this point!  Right now I cant
> find where to set member_mod now...  I thought it was on one of the web
> screens.  Once the list is created do I need to now change it via the
> command line?  or is everything available somewhere in the mailman web ui?
>
> I am pretty sure somewhere along the line i set all the users to be in the
> "hold" space for nonmoderators or list owners.  I am wondering if I have
> some other problem since i can't unsubscribe by emailing to
> listname-leave at domain.com ...
>
> Ken
>
> Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/29/06, Ken Cheney wrote:
> > First let me say I am very new to Mailman, very new to Linux, and very new
> to mailing
> > lists. (it took me 2 days to get the listserv to even send out :( )
> >
> > I have the listserv up and sending to my lists; however, I would like to
> make the lists only
> > emailable from the list owner. I saw one post that referred to a FAQ but
> it was not very
> > clear to me on how to do it. So, how do I limit the person that can send
> to the mailing list
> > to only the list owner/administrator/moderator? I have set all list
> members to be
> > moderated, yet they dont show up on the "tend to pending moderator tasks"
> link.
>
> What are 'they'? The users don't show up. If a moderated user sends a
> message, and member_moderation_action is set to 'Hold,' then the
> message will show up in the admin interface.
>
> The general way to do what you want is: set all members to moderated.
> Set 'default_member_moderation' for the list to 'Yes'. Set
> 'member_moderation_action' to 'Hold' if you want to see attempts by
> the members to post, and have the opportunity to approve them. Set it
> to 'reject,' otherwise, which will bounce the message and tell the
> user why. To allow certain users (based on email address) to
> automatically post, add their email addresses to
> accept_these_nonmembers. This is probably the easiest, although least
> secure, way to do this.
>
> The better (though potentially more complex and difficult) way to do
> this is to include the list password on any emails sent, which will
> automatically bypass the sender filters. There are two ways to do
> this: Either as a header in the email (this can be difficult,
> depending on which email client you're using), or as the first line in
> the email (this can be very tricky if you're sending HTML email. For
> normal text, it should be fairly foolproof). Either way, the
> header/line should look like:
>
> Approved:
>
> --
> - Patrick Bogen
>
>
>  ________________________________
>  Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
>
>
>  ________________________________
> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
>
>


-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov 30 03:27:39 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 18:27:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to make a list private?
In-Reply-To: <456DF775.5040608@ncmir.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200611291827390640a3efe127@msapiro>

Jana Nguyen wrote:
>
>I want to make my mailing list private for admin to view only.  But my 
>list keep on displaying publically at <host>mailman/lisinfo.


Set advertised to No on Privacy options...

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kencheney at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 30 03:33:40 2006
From: kencheney at yahoo.com (Ken Cheney)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 18:33:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private lists and trouble shooting unsubscribes
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00611291722t1f087fbn34258489b741bfad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20061130023340.76094.qmail@web53207.mail.yahoo.com>

Thank you.  Here are my settings for Privacy Options:
   
  Member Filters:
  By Default, should new list member postings be moderated?  = Yes
  Action Taken? = Hold
  NonMember Filters:
  Action to take for postings from nonmembers for which no explicit action is defined? = Hold
  Should messages from non-memebers, which are are discarded be fwded to moderator? = Yes
   
  As a member of the list with the mod box checked I email the list.  The list not only doesnt make it to the recipients but it doesnt show up in the "Pending moderator requests" section.
   
  Here are also things that don't work which could lead to the problem, they dont sound like they would but I will post them anyway.
  emailing to listname-leave at domain.com does not remove members from the list.
  if i email from the list owner the emails go to all the list members except the members of the list that have email addresses on my work domain.  Example:
  name1 at yahoo.com - get message
  name2 at yahoo.com - get message
  name at mydomain.com - does not get message
   
  Thanks!!!

Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
  This is where you want to adjust the setting I mentioned. If it's
already set to Hold (and not Discard or Reject), then there is
probably something else wrong, which is why you need to keep the
conversation on-list. As willing as I am to help, I don't have perfect
knowledge of Mailman.

- Patrick Bogen

On 11/29/06, Ken Cheney wrote:
> I think I found it... Under privacy|sender filters.
>
> Ken Cheney wrote:
>
> I will send the solution to the list after this email because I dont want
> the list subscribers to see how stupid I am at this point! Right now I cant
> find where to set member_mod now... I thought it was on one of the web
> screens. Once the list is created do I need to now change it via the
> command line? or is everything available somewhere in the mailman web ui?
>
> I am pretty sure somewhere along the line i set all the users to be in the
> "hold" space for nonmoderators or list owners. I am wondering if I have
> some other problem since i can't unsubscribe by emailing to
> listname-leave at domain.com ...
>
> Ken
>
> Patrick Bogen 
wrote:
> On 11/29/06, Ken Cheney wrote:
> > First let me say I am very new to Mailman, very new to Linux, and very new
> to mailing
> > lists. (it took me 2 days to get the listserv to even send out :( )
> >
> > I have the listserv up and sending to my lists; however, I would like to
> make the lists only
> > emailable from the list owner. I saw one post that referred to a FAQ but
> it was not very
> > clear to me on how to do it. So, how do I limit the person that can send
> to the mailing list
> > to only the list owner/administrator/moderator? I have set all list
> members to be
> > moderated, yet they dont show up on the "tend to pending moderator tasks"
> link.
>
> What are 'they'? The users don't show up. If a moderated user sends a
> message, and member_moderation_action is set to 'Hold,' then the
> message will show up in the admin interface.
>
> The general way to do what you want is: set all members to moderated.
> Set 'default_member_moderation' for the list to 'Yes'. Set
> 'member_moderation_action' to 'Hold' if you want to see attempts by
> the members to post, and have the opportunity to approve them. Set it
> to 'reject,' otherwise, which will bounce the message and tell the
> user why. To allow certain users (based on email address) to
> automatically post, add their email addresses to
> accept_these_nonmembers. This is probably the easiest, although least
> secure, way to do this.
>
> The better (though potentially more complex and difficult) way to do
> this is to include the list password on any emails sent, which will
> automatically bypass the sender filters. There are two ways to do
> this: Either as a header in the email (this can be difficult,
> depending on which email client you're using), or as the first line in
> the email (this can be very tricky if you're sending HTML email. For
> normal text, it should be fairly foolproof). Either way, the
> header/line should look like:
>
> Approved:
>
> --
> - Patrick Bogen
>
>
> ________________________________
> Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
>
>
> ________________________________
> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
>
>


-- 
- Patrick Bogen


 
---------------------------------
Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

From dave at boost-consulting.com  Thu Nov 30 03:37:26 2006
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 21:37:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mm-handler setup, new domain
Message-ID: <87wt5dzml5.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>


I am trying to set up Mailman at boost-consulting.com, which uses
Sendmail.

The README states:

  mm-handler is only really useful when it mostly "owns" its mail
  domain

So I am inclined to simply point a DNS record for
lists.boost-consulting.com at the same IP address and go from there.
Is there any reason that shouldn't work out peachily, and are there
any pitfalls I need to watch out for?

Thanks in advance,

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com

From turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp  Thu Nov 30 03:55:15 2006
From: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:55:15 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Using spam filters on subject line
In-Reply-To: <456DCD48.7050202@ix.netcom.com>
References: <456DCD48.7050202@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <87vekx4p9o.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Bob McLeran writes:

 > Using Mailman 2.1.9 as a list administrator.
 > 
 > Trying to block posts with string "test" in the subject line but would 
 > like to automatically approve certain subjects with the same string, 
 > such as "testing engine components" - is this possible under either 
 > "Header Filter Rules" or "Bounce Matching Headers" in the Privacy 
 > Options/Spam Filters section?

Yes, but your problem is not well-enough specified yet.  What are you
trying to do here?  Prevent Joe Luser from posting "test" to see if
he's really subscribed or if the mailing list is down?  Or create a
"safety string" that the list admin can use to check if mailman is
receiving?  How much do false positives and negatives matter?


From bsaxvik at sunrice.com.au  Thu Nov 30 03:41:09 2006
From: bsaxvik at sunrice.com.au (Saxvik, Ben)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:41:09 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending emails via Mailman Issue
Message-ID: <B3F5C68B3053574B91F240C87B9CC3E228DF66@slof2563.rcl.domain>

Hi All,

I'm fairly new to mailman and have just recently installed it (version
2.1.9) on a Fedora 6 VM.

The installation went well with no major issues. Though the problem I'm
having at the moment is when every time mailman try's to send a message
the following error appears in the smtp-failure log underneath the
mailman logs directory.

"Low level smtp error: (111, 'Connection refused') msgid:"

I'm using sendmail as my mail server version 8.13.8 and my Python
version is 2.4.4

As yet I have been unable to locate a solution to this issue and was
hoping that somebody may be able to provide some guidance.

Thanks,

Ben 




From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Nov 30 04:32:05 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 21:32:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private lists and trouble shooting unsubscribes
In-Reply-To: <20061130023340.76094.qmail@web53207.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <6fbe3da00611291722t1f087fbn34258489b741bfad@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061130023340.76094.qmail@web53207.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611291932x1f8ffdecqa6fe89895d702036@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/29/06, Ken Cheney <kencheney at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Thank you.  Here are my settings for Privacy Options:
>
>   Member Filters:
>   By Default, should new list member postings be moderated?  = Yes
>   Action Taken? = Hold
>   NonMember Filters:
>   Action to take for postings from nonmembers for which no explicit action is defined? = Hold
>   Should messages from non-memebers, which are are discarded be fwded to moderator? =
>   Yes
>
>   As a member of the list with the mod box checked I email the list.  The list not only doesnt
>   make it to the recipients but it doesnt show up in the "Pending moderator requests" section.
Do you have access to the system logs on the machine mailman is
running on? Can you check mailman's vette log (someone correct me if
I'm wrong, please) to see what's happening to the messages you post?

>   Here are also things that don't work which could lead to the problem, they dont sound like
>   they would but I will post them anyway.
>   emailing to listname-leave at domain.com does not remove members from the list.
>   if i email from the list owner the emails go to all the list members except the members of the
>   list that have email addresses on my work domain.  Example:
>   name1 at yahoo.com - get message
>   name2 at yahoo.com - get message
>   name at mydomain.com - does not get message

Is the machine handling mail for mydomain.com the same machine as that
on which mailman runs?
Can you check your MTA (e.g., sendmail, postfix, exim, or qmail) logs
to see what's happening to the request you send to listname-leave?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Nov 30 04:36:52 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 21:36:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending emails via Mailman Issue
In-Reply-To: <B3F5C68B3053574B91F240C87B9CC3E228DF66@slof2563.rcl.domain>
References: <B3F5C68B3053574B91F240C87B9CC3E228DF66@slof2563.rcl.domain>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611291936w34ffe52fve20715d0d8ce27c5@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/29/06, Saxvik, Ben <bsaxvik at sunrice.com.au> wrote:
> "Low level smtp error: (111, 'Connection refused') msgid:"

Have you overriden the 'SMTPHOST' or 'SMTPPORT' options in mm_cfg.py?
Alternatively, have you changed one of them in Defaults.py? (The
latter would be a bad thing).

The default SMTPHOST is 'localhost', and the port is 0, which means
the default. If you aren't running an MTA on the machine running
Mailman (from what I understand, you are?), you'll need to change
them. If you've changed them to something else, that may be the
problem.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From brcisna at eazylivin.net  Thu Nov 30 04:19:32 2006
From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 21:19:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Most recent posts to top of page
Message-ID: <1164856772.11599.3.camel@server1.eazylivin.net>

Hello List,

I m sure this is an easy fix, but i can not find a howto on doing this:
How do I get MM to show most recent posts at top of the page,rather than
the default, most recent are at the bottom..

MM 2.1.8  Fedora Core 5

Thanks,

Barry


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Nov 30 04:49:34 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 21:49:34 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mm-handler setup, new domain
In-Reply-To: <871wnl4zo2.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>
References: <871wnl4zo2.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>
Message-ID: <p06240500c19404f183f9@[10.0.1.11]>

At 6:10 PM -0500 11/29/06, David Abrahams wrote:

>  So I am inclined to simply point a DNS record for
>  lists.boost-consulting.com at the same IP address and go from there.
>  Is there any reason that shouldn't work out peachily, and are there
>  any pitfalls I need to watch out for?

Just make sure you don't try to use a CNAME alias instead of a real 
IP address.  The RFCs require that all CNAME aliases get their 
hostname replaced with the actual canonical name that is referenced, 
and this will hose your Mailman configuration.  Directly resolve to 
real IP addresses and avoid any CNAME aliases, and you should be fine.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From thomas at btspuhler.com  Thu Nov 30 05:09:42 2006
From: thomas at btspuhler.com (Thomas Spuhler)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 21:09:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem creating list, unknown language
Message-ID: <200611292109.42932.thomas@btspuhler.com>

When creating a new list, (my first list) I get:
[root at aargau thomas]# newlist
Create a new, unpopulated mailing list.
.
.
.
Note that listnames are forced to lowercase.

Unknown language: en_US
[root at aargau thomas]# 

Same with other languages such as de or fr

It's on a Mandriva 2007 box, worked on 2006
even using mailman-2.1.6 from 2006

There is nothing in the log.

-- 
Best regards
Thomas Spuhler

From thomas at btspuhler.com  Thu Nov 30 04:50:13 2006
From: thomas at btspuhler.com (Thomas Spuhler)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 20:50:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem creating list, unknow language
Message-ID: <200611292050.13763.thomas@btspuhler.com>

When creating a new list, (my first list) I get:
[root at aargau thomas]# newlist
Create a new, unpopulated mailing list.
.
.
.
Note that listnames are forced to lowercase.

Unknown language: en_US
[root at aargau thomas]# 

Same with other languages such as de or fr

It's on a Mandriva 2007 box, worked on 2006
even using mailman-2.1.6 from 2006

There is nothing in the log.

-- 
Best regards
Thomas Spuhler

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov 30 05:27:39 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 20:27:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem creating list, unknown language
In-Reply-To: <200611292109.42932.thomas@btspuhler.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061129202739070393497146@msapiro>

Thomas Spuhler wrote:

>When creating a new list, (my first list) I get:
>[root at aargau thomas]# newlist
>Create a new, unpopulated mailing list.
>.
>.
>.
>Note that listnames are forced to lowercase.
>
>Unknown language: en_US
>[root at aargau thomas]# 
>
>Same with other languages such as de or fr

I don't know about de or fr, but regarding en_US, see
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-February/049542.html>
(that was Mandravia 10.1)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rmcleran at ix.netcom.com  Thu Nov 30 05:51:23 2006
From: rmcleran at ix.netcom.com (Bob McLeran)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 23:51:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using spam filters on subject line
In-Reply-To: <87vekx4p9o.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <456DCD48.7050202@ix.netcom.com>
	<87vekx4p9o.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <456E634B.6050908@ix.netcom.com>

We're trying to stop emails with the string "test" - and that works with 
the filter subject: test currently. What I'd like to do is to be able to 
create a rule that would allow a legitimate subject line, like "testing 
NMEA circuit" which includes the string "test" to go through without 
being blocked so I don't have to approve subsequent emails which are 
responding to the legitimate post even though they contain the blocked 
string.

It doesn't matter that every email with the string "test" is initially 
stopped; we want to then take the legitimate subject lines to create 
something (a rule, a pass-through filter, whatever it is called) to 
allow subsequent emails with that subject to go to the list without 
administrator intervention.

Bob


On 11/29/2006 9:55 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Bob McLeran writes:
>
>  > Using Mailman 2.1.9 as a list administrator.
>  > 
>  > Trying to block posts with string "test" in the subject line but would 
>  > like to automatically approve certain subjects with the same string, 
>  > such as "testing engine components" - is this possible under either 
>  > "Header Filter Rules" or "Bounce Matching Headers" in the Privacy 
>  > Options/Spam Filters section?
>
> Yes, but your problem is not well-enough specified yet.  What are you
> trying to do here?  Prevent Joe Luser from posting "test" to see if
> he's really subscribed or if the mailing list is down?  Or create a
> "safety string" that the list admin can use to check if mailman is
> receiving?  How much do false positives and negatives matter?
>
>
>
>   


From bsaxvik at sunrice.com.au  Thu Nov 30 07:01:35 2006
From: bsaxvik at sunrice.com.au (Saxvik, Ben)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 17:01:35 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending emails via Mailman Issue
Message-ID: <B3F5C68B3053574B91F240C87B9CC3E228DF67@slof2563.rcl.domain>

Hi Patrick,

Thanks for your reply.

Yes the MTA is running on the mailman machine.

No I have not changed the options SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT, they are still
set to their default settings. SMTPHOST 'localhost' SMTPPORT '0'.

Regards,

Ben 

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Bogen [mailto:pdbogen at gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 30 November 2006 2:37 PM
To: Saxvik, Ben
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Sending emails via Mailman Issue

On 11/29/06, Saxvik, Ben <bsaxvik at sunrice.com.au> wrote:
> "Low level smtp error: (111, 'Connection refused') msgid:"

Have you overriden the 'SMTPHOST' or 'SMTPPORT' options in mm_cfg.py?
Alternatively, have you changed one of them in Defaults.py? (The latter
would be a bad thing).

The default SMTPHOST is 'localhost', and the port is 0, which means the
default. If you aren't running an MTA on the machine running Mailman
(from what I understand, you are?), you'll need to change them. If
you've changed them to something else, that may be the problem.

--
- Patrick Bogen

From dave at boost-consulting.com  Thu Nov 30 07:06:01 2006
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 01:06:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mm-handler setup, new domain
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c19404f183f9@[10.0.1.11]> (Brad Knowles's message of
	"Wed\, 29 Nov 2006 21\:49\:34 -0600")
References: <871wnl4zo2.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>
	<p06240500c19404f183f9@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <87slg1zcxi.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>

Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> writes:

> At 6:10 PM -0500 11/29/06, David Abrahams wrote:
>
>>  So I am inclined to simply point a DNS record for
>>  lists.boost-consulting.com at the same IP address and go from there.
>>  Is there any reason that shouldn't work out peachily, and are there
>>  any pitfalls I need to watch out for?
>
> Just make sure you don't try to use a CNAME alias instead of a real IP
> address.  The RFCs require that all CNAME aliases get their hostname
> replaced with the actual canonical name that is referenced, and this
> will hose your Mailman configuration.  Directly resolve to real IP
> addresses and avoid any CNAME aliases, and you should be fine.

Pardon my ignorance, but is this a DNS setting you're referring to, or
is it something to do with configuration on the mailserver?

Thanks again,

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com

From lonnie at norton.utah.edu  Thu Nov 30 07:11:23 2006
From: lonnie at norton.utah.edu (Lonnie Norton)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 23:11:23 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to setup umbrella lists
Message-ID: <20061129231021.O56360@norton.utah.edu>

Hi,
    There is a "umbrella_list" setting in the "General Options" for my 
lists but I'm not sure how I'm supposed to setup the umbrella list to 
allow posting from people who are on the sub lists. Has someone written an 
explanation of this procedure?
Thanks, Lonnie.

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Nov 30 07:39:56 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:39:56 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using spam filters on subject line
In-Reply-To: <456E634B.6050908@ix.netcom.com>
References: <456DCD48.7050202@ix.netcom.com>
	<87vekx4p9o.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<456E634B.6050908@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <87psb54ev7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Bob McLeran writes:

 > We're trying to stop emails with the string "test" - and that works with 
 > the filter subject: test currently. What I'd like to do is to be able to 
 > create a rule that would allow a legitimate subject line, like "testing 
 > NMEA circuit" which includes the string "test" to go through without 
 > being blocked

 > It doesn't matter that every email with the string "test" is initially 
 > stopped; we want to then take the legitimate subject lines to create 
 > something (a rule, a pass-through filter, whatever it is called) to 
 > allow subsequent emails with that subject to go to the list without 
 > administrator intervention.

You need a sufficiently recent Mailman version so that the
"subject: test" style filter is called "legacy anti-spam filters" in
the Privacy > Spam Filters section of the admin pages.

First, get rid of those legacy filters.  I'm not sure how they
interact with the new header filters.  Then create Rule 1 with regexp
"^Subject: Testing NMEA circuit$" and action "Accept".  Next an
optional Rule 2 with regexp "^Subject: test$" and action "Reject".
Finally, Rule 3 with regexp "^Subject:.*test" and action "Hold."

These regexps do the following.  First, the subject "testing NMEA
circuits" exactly (except for case---specifically, no whitespace
changes, "Re:" or anything like that) is automatically passed.  If
that didn't match, then anything with the exact subject "test" is
rejected (ie, returned to sender).  If there is still no match, any
other subject containing "test" is held for admin action.  (Only the
last match is "fuzzy".)  Finally, the default action for your list
(presumably "Accept") is taken if none of the above matched.

More likely, rule 1 should be "^Subject:.*Testing NMEA circuit". which
would allow "Re:" and your mailing list "[Short circuits]" prefix,
plus suffixes like "-- another failure".

To add new approved subjects, just add them one per line to rule 1:

^Subject:.*Testing NMEA circuit
^Subject:.*Testing YaddaYadda circuit

You can get fancy with the regexp if you like, but that makes it more
tediious and error-prone to remove approvals (either because you want
the thread to die or for neatness reasons long after it's relevant).
So I recommend one regexp per thread.

Note that the optional reject rule 2 will return the message to sender.
I don't think there's any easy way to configure the rejection message
text, but I would guess that your users will learn to go "oops, bad
subject" when they get one.

I can't go into the details of fuzzy matching (regexps) here, but
there are some details of how this works I should mention.  A mail
message containing attachments or multimedia will have headers
embedded in the body, hidden by your MUA.  Those headers are also
checked (but they rarely include "Subject", except in the case of a
forwarded message).  Also, due to the way mail headers work, you
cannot depend on whitespace being "what you see is what you get".  I
believe that the match is against the full header as decoded (eg
foreign languages), after appending continuation lines.  As far as
efficiency of testing multiple regexps goes, it's almost surely not a
worry.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Nov 30 08:30:50 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 01:30:50 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mm-handler setup, new domain
In-Reply-To: <87slg1zcxi.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>
References: <871wnl4zo2.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>
	<p06240500c19404f183f9@[10.0.1.11]>
	<87slg1zcxi.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>
Message-ID: <p06240500c194390ebac8@[10.0.1.11]>

At 1:06 AM -0500 11/30/06, David Abrahams wrote:

>>  Just make sure you don't try to use a CNAME alias instead of a real IP
>>  address.  The RFCs require that all CNAME aliases get their hostname
>>  replaced with the actual canonical name that is referenced, and this
>>  will hose your Mailman configuration.  Directly resolve to real IP
>>  addresses and avoid any CNAME aliases, and you should be fine.
>
>  Pardon my ignorance, but is this a DNS setting you're referring to, or
>  is it something to do with configuration on the mailserver?

CNAME aliases are DNS records, yes.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Thu Nov 30 08:43:14 2006
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 08:43:14 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] personalization and limiting number of emails to MTA
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.64.0611300836540.42817@192.168.11.51>

Hello,

Is it possible within Mailman 2.1.9 to limit the number of emails sent to 
an MTA responsible for delivery so that not all of them are passed on one 
connection? I have a mls with about 600 addresses and the list is set to 
full personalization (monthly anounce list). When I ran it for the first 
time yesterday I saw mailman delivering about half of the emails on one 
connection and probably second half after a slight pause. This pause may 
have been caused by my (old) machine not able to cope with so many emails 
at one time. I just do not know. What I am looking for is limiting the 
number of emails sent by mailman to MTA to some custom defined value. Is 
this possible and if so then how?

Thank you!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

From d.tkaczyk at uw.edu.pl  Thu Nov 30 13:20:47 2006
From: d.tkaczyk at uw.edu.pl (Dominika Tkaczyk)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:20:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation action
Message-ID: <courier.456ECCA0.00003228@hermes4.poczta.uw.edu.pl>

Hello, 

I would like my mailing list to have the following configuration: the 
messages from most of subscribers are rejected, and there are a few 
subscribers whose messages are hold for moderation. Is there any way to do 
so without changing the source code? Or maybe there are already some 
patches? 

If I check the moderation checkbox for all subscribers, then I can set only 
one moderation action, but when I uncheck the box for the "priviledged" 
subscribers, their messages aren't hold for moderation. 

I am using Mailman 2.1.9. 

My second question is: does Mailman use any email authorization or it simply 
checks the From: header of messages? 

Regards,
Dominika 



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Nov 30 15:50:20 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 08:50:20 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending emails via Mailman Issue
In-Reply-To: <B3F5C68B3053574B91F240C87B9CC3E228DF67@slof2563.rcl.domain>
References: <B3F5C68B3053574B91F240C87B9CC3E228DF67@slof2563.rcl.domain>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611300650j7c1f30bage56ccfa7e8e68d4c@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/30/06, Saxvik, Ben <bsaxvik at sunrice.com.au> wrote:
> Yes the MTA is running on the mailman machine.
>
> No I have not changed the options SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT, they are still
> set to their default settings. SMTPHOST 'localhost' SMTPPORT '0'.

Can you double-check that your MTA is listening on port 25? Either
using: netstat -lnp (and looking for port 25) or: telnet localhost 25
and see if the MTA responds (after a few seconds, probably.)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Nov 30 16:03:03 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 09:03:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation action
In-Reply-To: <courier.456ECCA0.00003228@hermes4.poczta.uw.edu.pl>
References: <courier.456ECCA0.00003228@hermes4.poczta.uw.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611300703j726b2fcfod8ca34a4263593bc@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/30/06, Dominika Tkaczyk <d.tkaczyk at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
> I would like my mailing list to have the following configuration: the
> messages from most of subscribers are rejected, and there are a few
> subscribers whose messages are hold for moderation. Is there any way to do
> so without changing the source code? Or maybe there are already some
> patches?
Unfortunately, it looks like, since Moderate.py comes before anything
else, there's no really 'correct' way to do this.

One option that ought to work, however, would be the following:
Moderate all users that you want rejected, and set
member_moderation_action to reject. Unmoderate the users you want
held. Add a header filter rule that matches on everything (something
like a single caret ('^') should suffice), and is set to Hold. I
haven't tested this, and I don't know if it will work or not.

This does seem like something that should be implemented in a more
reasonable manner, though, possibly with the addition of a
'default_member_action,' separate from moderation?

> My second question is: does Mailman use any email authorization or it simply
> checks the From: header of messages?
Mailman only checks the From header, but it also looks for a special
'Approved' header. To use this feature, include an 'Approved:' header
containing the list password (e.g., Approved: foobar), or include it
as the first line of the message. Note that the latter is a bit
dependent on how the message is constructed, so if your email client
handles HTML email weird, and you use that, it's possible that mailman
might miss the header. The handling should be pretty good, though, and
text-only emails should be pretty much foolproof.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Nov 30 16:05:23 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 09:05:23 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation action
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00611300703j726b2fcfod8ca34a4263593bc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <courier.456ECCA0.00003228@hermes4.poczta.uw.edu.pl>
	<6fbe3da00611300703j726b2fcfod8ca34a4263593bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611300705q71e02eedl4f1015f12ff75942@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/30/06, Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/30/06, Dominika Tkaczyk <d.tkaczyk at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
> > My second question is: does Mailman use any email authorization or it simply
> > checks the From: header of messages?
> Mailman only checks the From header, but it also looks for a special
> 'Approved' header. To use this feature, include an 'Approved:' header
> containing the list password (e.g., Approved: foobar), or include it
> as the first line of the message.

I should point out that this *does* bypass any type of member
moderation. If a valid 'Approved:' header is included, then the
message bypasses any of those filters. I don't know for sure /which/
filters it bypasses, but I would assume it bypasses all of them. (Can
someone verify this assumption?)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Nov 30 16:07:19 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 09:07:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] personalization and limiting number of emails
	to MTA
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.64.0611300836540.42817@192.168.11.51>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.64.0611300836540.42817@192.168.11.51>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611300707x17462411xfd6f59cc9fd53256@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/30/06, Zbigniew Szalbot <zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org> wrote:
> Is it possible within Mailman 2.1.9 to limit the number of emails sent to
> an MTA responsible for delivery so that not all of them are passed on one
> connection?

Yes, set SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION and/or SMTP_MAX_RCPTS in
your mm_cfg.py to whichever values you want. SMTP_MAX_RCPTS is
probably not important, since you're using full personalization.
SMTP_MAX_SESSION_PER_CONNECTION is what you're asking about, however.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Nov 30 16:16:04 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 09:16:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to setup umbrella lists
In-Reply-To: <20061129231021.O56360@norton.utah.edu>
References: <20061129231021.O56360@norton.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611300716o463e4df7g9d94491bd355f307@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/30/06, Lonnie Norton <lonnie at norton.utah.edu> wrote:
> Hi,
>     There is a "umbrella_list" setting in the "General Options" for my
> lists but I'm not sure how I'm supposed to setup the umbrella list to
> allow posting from people who are on the sub lists. Has someone written an
> explanation of this procedure?

There is a patch available that will allow you to reference other
lists' memberships in the accept_these_nonmembers field. The
'umbrella_list' setting is really just an accessory, which redirects
notifications (e.g., periodic password notifications) to sublist-owner
instead of just sublist (in which case everyone on the sublist would
see sublist's password! Oops!).

The patch, I believe, is here:
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>


Additionally, each sublist either needs 'require_explicit_destination'
set to 'No,' or the address of the umbrella list added to
'acceptable_aliases'.

There may be something I'm missing, but I think that's everything.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Nov 30 16:27:14 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 09:27:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to setup umbrella lists
In-Reply-To: <456EF6D8.3040601@gse.upenn.edu>
References: <20061129231021.O56360@norton.utah.edu>
	<6fbe3da00611300716o463e4df7g9d94491bd355f307@mail.gmail.com>
	<456EF6D8.3040601@gse.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611300727h50b22565kb40a1d1373373f2@mail.gmail.com>

It reportedly applies properly to 2.1.8.. I don't know if anyone's
tried it against 2.1.9. If you're worried, just make a backup of
everything before you patch it.

- Patrick Bogen

P.s., please keep all replies on-list

On 11/30/06, Todd Seeleman <seeleman at gse.upenn.edu> wrote:
> Hi Patrick,
>
> I looked at the patch and it doesn't specifically mention mailman 2.1.9.
>   Will the patch work for that version?
>
> Todd Seeleman
>
> Patrick Bogen wrote:
> > On 11/30/06, Lonnie Norton <lonnie at norton.utah.edu> wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>     There is a "umbrella_list" setting in the "General Options" for my
> >> lists but I'm not sure how I'm supposed to setup the umbrella list to
> >> allow posting from people who are on the sub lists. Has someone written an
> >> explanation of this procedure?
> >
> > There is a patch available that will allow you to reference other
> > lists' memberships in the accept_these_nonmembers field. The
> > 'umbrella_list' setting is really just an accessory, which redirects
> > notifications (e.g., periodic password notifications) to sublist-owner
> > instead of just sublist (in which case everyone on the sublist would
> > see sublist's password! Oops!).
> >
> > The patch, I believe, is here:
> > <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>
> >
> >
> > Additionally, each sublist either needs 'require_explicit_destination'
> > set to 'No,' or the address of the umbrella list added to
> > 'acceptable_aliases'.
> >
> > There may be something I'm missing, but I think that's everything.
> >
>
> --
>
>   ***************************************************************
>   Todd Seeleman, Systems Analyst
>   Penn Graduate School of Education
>   3440 Market Street, Rm 477        email: seeleman at gse.upenn.edu
>   Philadelphia, PA. 19104-3325      phone: 215-573-8378
>   ***************************************************************
>
>


-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Thu Nov 30 16:40:59 2006
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:40:59 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] personalization and limiting number of emails
 to MTA
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00611300707x17462411xfd6f59cc9fd53256@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.64.0611300836540.42817@192.168.11.51>
	<6fbe3da00611300707x17462411xfd6f59cc9fd53256@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.64.0611301640190.65629@192.168.11.51>

Hello,

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Patrick Bogen wrote:

>> Is it possible within Mailman 2.1.9 to limit the number of emails sent to
>> an MTA responsible for delivery so that not all of them are passed on one
>> connection?
>
> Yes, set SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION and/or SMTP_MAX_RCPTS in
> your mm_cfg.py to whichever values you want. SMTP_MAX_RCPTS is

Thank you very much! I really appreciate this.

Warm regards,

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

From ala at chalmers.se  Thu Nov 30 16:23:14 2006
From: ala at chalmers.se (Ann-Louise Augustsson)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:23:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to setup umbrella lists
In-Reply-To: <20061129231021.O56360@norton.utah.edu>
References: <20061129231021.O56360@norton.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <456EF762.3070009@chalmers.se>

Lonnie Norton skrev:
> Hi,

Hi Lonnie,

> There is a "umbrella_list" setting in the "General Options" for my 
> lists but I'm not sure how I'm supposed to setup the umbrella list to 
> allow posting from people who are on the sub lists. Has someone written an 
> explanation of this procedure?

I just have fresh experiences with this problem. In my case there were 
some listmoderators that should be allowed to post to all members in all 
lists that was in the umbrella list constellation. They had to be 
members in all lists, and have the moderation bit unchecked. For all 
ordinary members, the moderation bit should remain checked.

Do you follow?

Best regards,
Ann-Louise Augustsson
Chalmers University of Technology
IT Service/Department of Systems Operation

From kencheney at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 30 17:26:32 2006
From: kencheney at yahoo.com (Ken Cheney)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 08:26:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private lists and trouble shooting unsubscribes
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00611291932x1f8ffdecqa6fe89895d702036@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <626125.64192.qm@web53202.mail.yahoo.com>

I do have access to the box that mailman is on. The vette log shows:

Nov 29 08:05:02 2006 (11992) Mailman post from root at listserv.mydomain.org held, message-id=<200611291305.kATD51Gr025658 at listserv.mydomain.org>: Post by non-member to a members-only list

but the email address I sent to this list from is a member of the list.  Is this a problem maybe in the aliases file?

alias_database = hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
alias_maps = hash:/etc/mailman/aliases


Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote: On 11/29/06, Ken Cheney  wrote:
> Thank you.  Here are my settings for Privacy Options:
>
>   Member Filters:
>   By Default, should new list member postings be moderated?  = Yes
>   Action Taken? = Hold
>   NonMember Filters:
>   Action to take for postings from nonmembers for which no explicit action is defined? = Hold
>   Should messages from non-memebers, which are are discarded be fwded to moderator? =
>   Yes
>
>   As a member of the list with the mod box checked I email the list.  The list not only doesnt
>   make it to the recipients but it doesnt show up in the "Pending moderator requests" section.
Do you have access to the system logs on the machine mailman is
running on? Can you check mailman's vette log (someone correct me if
I'm wrong, please) to see what's happening to the messages you post?

>   Here are also things that don't work which could lead to the problem, they dont sound like
>   they would but I will post them anyway.
>   emailing to listname-leave at domain.com does not remove members from the list.
>   if i email from the list owner the emails go to all the list members except the members of the
>   list that have email addresses on my work domain.  Example:
>   name1 at yahoo.com - get message
>   name2 at yahoo.com - get message
>   name at mydomain.com - does not get message

Is the machine handling mail for mydomain.com the same machine as that
on which mailman runs?
Can you check your MTA (e.g., sendmail, postfix, exim, or qmail) logs
to see what's happening to the request you send to listname-leave?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


 
---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

From fpga at pacbell.net  Thu Nov 30 19:00:08 2006
From: fpga at pacbell.net (Duane Clark)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 10:00:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subject line filtering
Message-ID: <456F1C28.1080802@pacbell.net>

First let me say that I realize that filtering is supposedly better done
at the MTA level (and we are running spam assassin), but I don't have 
access to that level; I am only a moderator for several lists, and I 
would like to be able to do simple filtering without bothering the sys 
admin.

With discard_these_nonmembers, I use regular expressions such as:
^.*paypal\.com
^debora.*
Those seem to work fine.

But I would like to be able to filter on subject lines, and suppose this 
would be done with header_filter_rules. About half of the spam that gets 
through are those recent ubiquitous spams with subject lines like "Linda 
wrote:" and "hi it's Linda". I tried the rules:
^subject:.*hi\sit
^subject:.*wrote:
But they don't seem to work. I am not very familiar with regular 
expressions. Can someone point out something I am doing wrong?


From lordrich at gmail.com  Thu Nov 30 19:23:46 2006
From: lordrich at gmail.com (Richard Kirkcaldy)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 18:23:46 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Logging list creation
Message-ID: <c30aa020611301023n30d51eb7la3fcc1f3dacd50f2@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
Is there a way to log the creation of new lists?  We've got quite a
few people administering our Mailman server and I'd like announcements
of new lists to be either logged somewhere or, even better, emailed
out to the Mailman list.

-- 
Richard Kirkcaldy

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Nov 30 20:57:54 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:57:54 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private lists and trouble shooting unsubscribes
In-Reply-To: <626125.64192.qm@web53202.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <6fbe3da00611291932x1f8ffdecqa6fe89895d702036@mail.gmail.com>
	<626125.64192.qm@web53202.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611301157x24623361l2c94c29ce737a7f3@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/30/06, Ken Cheney <kencheney at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I do have access to the box that mailman is on. The vette log shows:
>
> Nov 29 08:05:02 2006 (11992) Mailman post from root at listserv.mydomain.org
> held,
> message-id=<200611291305.kATD51Gr025658 at listserv.mydomain.org>:
> Post by non-member to a members-only list
The address 'root at listserv.mydomain.org' is not a member of the list.
That is the address you sent the message from. However, this indicates
the message was held, not rejected or discarded. Are you sure you're
looking at the correct place when you say it doesn't show up as a
moderation task?

> but the email address I sent to this list from is a member of the list.  Is
> this a problem maybe in the aliases file?
>
> alias_database = hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
I don't think you need both of these. I'm not completely sure,
however. This might have something to do with why listname-leave isn't
working.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Nov 30 20:58:46 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:58:46 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Logging list creation
In-Reply-To: <c30aa020611301023n30d51eb7la3fcc1f3dacd50f2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c30aa020611301023n30d51eb7la3fcc1f3dacd50f2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611301158h449697a4s5849fbc887ba469c@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/30/06, Richard Kirkcaldy <lordrich at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there a way to log the creation of new lists?  We've got quite a
> few people administering our Mailman server and I'd like announcements
> of new lists to be either logged somewhere or, even better, emailed
> out to the Mailman list.

I don't believe there's a setting to accomplish this. It shouldn't,
however, be terribly difficult to modify the various methods for
creating lists to generate an announcement to a fixed address,
however.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Nov 30 21:03:19 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 14:03:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subject line filtering
In-Reply-To: <456F1C28.1080802@pacbell.net>
References: <456F1C28.1080802@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611301203y325b663bm1c337694ee13f3c5@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/30/06, Duane Clark <fpga at pacbell.net> wrote:
> ^subject:.*hi\sit
> ^subject:.*wrote:
> But they don't seem to work. I am not very familiar with regular
> expressions. Can someone point out something I am doing wrong?

These look fine to me. What do you have the action set to for these rules?
Is it possible the message is being pre-approved some other way?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From bsaxvik at sunrice.com.au  Thu Nov 30 23:45:56 2006
From: bsaxvik at sunrice.com.au (Saxvik, Ben)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 09:45:56 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending emails via Mailman Issue
Message-ID: <B3F5C68B3053574B91F240C87B9CC3E228DF68@slof2563.rcl.domain>

Hi Patrick,

I tired to telnet to port 25 on localhost and got a connection refused
error.

I verified that sendmail was running and it was. I then proceeded to
/etc/hosts file and found that the loopback address for the machine was
incorrect. Instead of the address being 127.0.0.1 it was ::1. Once I
change it back it was all sweet.

I did apply some patches to my system recently so one of them must have
changed this address.

Again thanks for your assistance.

Regards,

Ben

   

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Bogen [mailto:pdbogen at gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, 1 December 2006 1:50 AM
To: Saxvik, Ben
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Sending emails via Mailman Issue

On 11/30/06, Saxvik, Ben <bsaxvik at sunrice.com.au> wrote:
> Yes the MTA is running on the mailman machine.
>
> No I have not changed the options SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT, they are 
> still set to their default settings. SMTPHOST 'localhost' SMTPPORT
'0'.

Can you double-check that your MTA is listening on port 25? Either
using: netstat -lnp (and looking for port 25) or: telnet localhost 25
and see if the MTA responds (after a few seconds, probably.)

--
- Patrick Bogen