From Peter.Soccar at bibalex.org  Mon Oct  2 10:56:51 2006
From: Peter.Soccar at bibalex.org (Peter Soccar)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 10:56:51 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how do I add a new administrative role to mailman?
Message-ID: <AAA84820D5874F46B68C394C41FBBB2237E60A@SEXGW3K-H2010.local.bibalex.dom>

Hello,

I'm new to mailman, and I'm asked to find a way to add a new administrative role in addition to the existing roles: (owner, moderator)

i.e. I need to create something like "semi-owner" or "advanced-moderator" that is to have some of the owners rights beside the moderators right

 

any help will be extremely appreciated

 

Best Regards  

 

 




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct  2 17:02:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 08:02:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how do I add a new administrative role to
	mailman?
In-Reply-To: <AAA84820D5874F46B68C394C41FBBB2237E60A@SEXGW3K-H2010.local.bibalex.dom>
Message-ID: <PC17602006100208024103285c02a611@msapiro>

Peter Soccar wrote:
>
>I'm new to mailman, and I'm asked to find a way to add a new administrative role in addition to the existing roles: (owner, moderator)
>
>i.e. I need to create something like "semi-owner" or "advanced-moderator" that is to have some of the owners rights beside the moderators right


This has been discussed before on this list. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.018.htp>
for information on searching the archives.

Basically, if you want to keep the current roles as opposed to
modifying one of the existing roles, you will need to implement a new
script (a restricted version of admin), compile a CGI wrapper to
invoke it and add an additional password attribute to validate this
role and modify the existing admin General and Password pages to
support this role and its password. This may not be a complete list.

You could probably avoid adding a new script and CGI wrapper by
modifying the existing admin script to not show things based on which
password was used to login. This might be the simplest approach,
particularly if all you wanted to do was eliminate certain whole pages
from the restricted interface.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dr-bob at uchicago.edu  Mon Oct  2 20:48:31 2006
From: dr-bob at uchicago.edu (Robert Hsiung)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 13:48:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Threading for integration with message board
Message-ID: <p06230960c146f6a09261@[128.135.25.11]>

Hi, everyone,

Do any of you know of an easy way to organize email into threads? 
Have any of you integrated a Mailman list and a message board?

I have a message board that I'd like users to be able to post to by 
email (instead of having to go the web site), and what I'm finding 
hard is integrating posts that are emailed with those that are 
submitted from the web site.

My first idea was to use Mailman, with the message board based on the 
threaded archives, but Mailman doesn't actually seem to do a great 
job of threading, plus I'm afraid I'd need to learn Python (what I'm 
comfortable with is Perl).

My other idea is to do it myself, by using the post number of the 
post being replied to as the "+detail" part of the reply-to address. 
The message board script gives each post a post number. If it emails 
out post 123, for example, with a reply-to address of:

	list+123 at server

and a user replies to that, the sendmail aliases file can pipe it to 
the message board script:

	list+*: |path-to-script

which can then extract the "123" from the reply-to header and thread 
it after post 123. It seems to me the easiest way to thread is with 
the number of the post being replied to, and I can't think of another 
way to make sure an email reply includes it.

What do you all think? I guess the second part is kind of off-topic 
here, but I hope it's OK to ask. Thanks,

Bob


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct  2 21:21:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 12:21:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Threading for integration with message board
In-Reply-To: <p06230960c146f6a09261@[128.135.25.11]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610021221310750fc38b28d@msapiro>

Robert Hsiung wrote:
>
>Do any of you know of an easy way to organize email into threads? 


Not necessarily easy, but see <http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html>.


>My first idea was to use Mailman, with the message board based on the 
>threaded archives, but Mailman doesn't actually seem to do a great 
>job of threading, plus I'm afraid I'd need to learn Python (what I'm 
>comfortable with is Perl).


Mailman's archives are threaded based on the Message-ID: of one post
being in either the In-Reply-To: or References: header (or both) of a
subsequent post.

This is an incomplete solution fo a number of reasons including:

1) Not all MUAs include either a In-Reply-To: or References: header in
replies.

2) People 'hijack' threads by creating a new post as a reply to a
previously received post.

3) Replies to posts in 'plain' format digests won't be threaded even if
they have a proper Subject:.

4) A direct recipient of a post which is delayed in reaching the list
can post a reply which reaches the list before the original. In this
case the reply isn't threaded even after the original arrives.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From leventelpen at gmail.com  Mon Oct  2 21:22:22 2006
From: leventelpen at gmail.com (Levent Elpen)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 22:22:22 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] gmail and yahoo blocked?
Message-ID: <bf94e7150610021222g6238ba98jde0a5e623f28e008@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I have a problem recently (I have not, before). I have two mailman
lists on my server and cpanel. One runs properly and send mail to all
server types include gmail and yahoo. Other, runs properly, too, but
does not send specially my yahoo and gmail adresses. This list's admin
address is my gmail address. This gmail address never receive from my
two list mails, only yahoo receive. Now, my yahoo address does not any
mail from my problem list in question in one way or another. This
yahoo address receive from other list.

How I can solve this problem? I did everything (configuration) but did
not work.

Sincerely,

Levent Elpen from Turkey.


-- 
http://www.iks-yayin.com
http://www.cizgifilmciler.org


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Oct  2 21:32:41 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:32:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] gmail and yahoo blocked?
In-Reply-To: <bf94e7150610021222g6238ba98jde0a5e623f28e008@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf94e7150610021222g6238ba98jde0a5e623f28e008@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240502c14719a1c187@[10.3.1.124]>

At 10:22 PM +0300 10/2/06, Levent Elpen wrote:

>  I have a problem recently (I have not, before). I have two mailman
>  lists on my server and cpanel.

Please see FAQ 6.11.

>                                 One runs properly and send mail to all
>  server types include gmail and yahoo. Other, runs properly, too, but
>  does not send specially my yahoo and gmail adresses.

Please see FAQ 3.42.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct  2 22:19:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 13:19:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] gmail and yahoo blocked?
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c14719a1c187@[10.3.1.124]>
Message-ID: <PC176020061002131903056217a6ca75@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 10:22 PM +0300 10/2/06, Levent Elpen wrote:
>
>>  I have a problem recently (I have not, before). I have two mailman
>>  lists on my server and cpanel.
>
>Please see FAQ 6.11.
>
>>                                 One runs properly and send mail to all
>>  server types include gmail and yahoo. Other, runs properly, too, but
>>  does not send specially my yahoo and gmail adresses.
>
>Please see FAQ 3.42.


This may or may not be a problem with Yahoo and/or Gmail blocking, but
since you have two lists on the same server and both Yahoo and Gmail
receive and deliver mail from one list and not the other, that rules
out a lot of the things such as originating domain or IP address that
are often the basis for blocking.

I would compare the two list configurations side by side to see what's
different. Possibly something like an explicit Reply-To: on one list
but not the other or something in the subject_prefix of the blocked
list is causing this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jheim at math.wisc.edu  Mon Oct  2 22:54:10 2006
From: jheim at math.wisc.edu (John Heim)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 15:54:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] allow members of one list to post to another
Message-ID: <04cb01c6e664$e8bf7f60$4ba65c90@vv507j>

I'm trying to switch my department over from smartlist to mailman. We 
currently have several smartlists configured so that if you're on one list, 
you can post to another even though you may not be  subscribed to the second 
list.  How can I reproduce that with mailman?

For instance, if I want all faculty members to be able to send a message to 
the computer staff, I would want everyone n the faculty list to be allowed 
to send to the computer-staff list.


Do I have to subscribe all faculty to the computer-staff list and then just 
have them not get messages? Is there an easier way?


In smartlist, you can do this by creating a symlink to the subscription file 
for the faculty list  to the allow file for the computer-staff list. So when 
an addresss is added to the faculty list, it automatically updates the allow 
list for computer-staff because they're actually the same file.




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct  2 23:17:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:17:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] allow members of one list to post to another
In-Reply-To: <04cb01c6e664$e8bf7f60$4ba65c90@vv507j>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610021417160953e2f5e069@msapiro>

John Heim wrote:

>I'm trying to switch my department over from smartlist to mailman. We 
>currently have several smartlists configured so that if you're on one list, 
>you can post to another even though you may not be  subscribed to the second 
>list.  How can I reproduce that with mailman?


The patch at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>
allows you to do exactly this by placing "@list1" in the
accept_these_nonmembers list of list2.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Oct  3 05:26:21 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 12:26:21 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Threading for integration with message board
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610021221310750fc38b28d@msapiro>
References: <p06230960c146f6a09261@[128.135.25.11]>
	<PC1760200610021221310750fc38b28d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <17697.55389.569256.246911@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:
 > Robert Hsiung wrote:
 > >
 > >Do any of you know of an easy way to organize email into threads? 
 > 
 > 
 > Not necessarily easy, but see <http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html>.

I've heard rumors that there's a Perl module on CPAN implementing
Jamie's algorithm.

Mailman also has "topics", which might help.

And Now For Something Completely Different: Roundup.  Roundup is an
issue tracker with excellent integration of email and web-based access
(something that can't be said for many popular trackers).  Since each
issue has a "nosy list", people who prefer to work via email can sign
up for the nosy list and receive each contribution to the issue
(thread) as it is posted.

I don't know if this could possibly serve your needs, but jumping out
of the box is often useful.  It's certainly closer to a "message
board" than a mailing list manager is.




From lists at macferrin.com  Tue Oct  3 08:37:24 2006
From: lists at macferrin.com (Ken MacFerrin)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 00:37:24 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can Google be used to search archives?
In-Reply-To: <p0623090bc140a3c463cd@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <p0623090bc140a3c463cd@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <45220524.4030001@macferrin.com>

Bob Bergey wrote:
> Can Google Free Search be set up to use for searches of my Mailman 
> archives? How would I go about it? I searched the list archives here 
> but didn't find anything on the topic.
> 
> Also, the list in question is a list where archives are set up to be 
> viewable only by current list members.
> 

If your lists were set to be public then you could use the Google's
"site:" keyword to search specifically within your domain.

site:yourdomainname.com your keywords here

http://www.google.com/intl/en/help/cheatsheet.html

-Ken


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Oct  3 09:01:53 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 00:01:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Threading for integration with message board
In-Reply-To: <17697.55389.569256.246911@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <p06230960c146f6a09261@[128.135.25.11]>
	<PC1760200610021221310750fc38b28d@msapiro>
	<17697.55389.569256.246911@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240505c147bb324c99@[10.57.23.125]>

At 12:26 PM +0900 10/3/06, <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:

>  > Not necessarily easy, but see <http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html>.
>
>  I've heard rumors that there's a Perl module on CPAN implementing
>  Jamie's algorithm.

It was my understanding that Mailman already implements Jamie's algorithm.

Is this not correct?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From benjamin at py-soft.co.uk  Tue Oct  3 13:06:26 2006
From: benjamin at py-soft.co.uk (Benjamin Donnachie)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 11:06:26 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Different URL PATTERNS per virtual host?
In-Reply-To: <450DD177.8000007@py-soft.co.uk>
References: <450DD177.8000007@py-soft.co.uk>
Message-ID: <44FAB72A.6060907@py-soft.co.uk>

Benjamin Donnachie wrote:
> I am using Mailman v2.1.6 and I was wondering whether it is possible to
> have a different DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN per virtual host?

I decided to cheat by sticking the following in the apache config for my
sites:

RewriteRule ^/mailman/(.*)  https://www\.py-soft\.co\.uk/mailman/$1
[L,R=permanent]

Seems to work! :)

Ben


From Peter.Soccar at bibalex.org  Tue Oct  3 14:46:15 2006
From: Peter.Soccar at bibalex.org (Peter Soccar)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 14:46:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] invoke new pages
Message-ID: <AAA84820D5874F46B68C394C41FBBB2237E611@SEXGW3K-H2010.local.bibalex.dom>


I'm using rpm to install mailman 2.7.1-1.2 on fedora5

and I need to create a new page like admin or admindb to handle an additional role

unfortunately in the setup I have i couldn't find cgi-wrapper.c to recompile it in order to invoke the new page

is there a way to make mailman recognize my new page (and put its executable in the CGI-BIN folder) or will I have to install another version of mail man not using rpm.

thanks alot


From r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk  Tue Oct  3 14:45:27 2006
From: r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 13:45:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] patches update for MM 2.1.9
Message-ID: <FB68EC1D-3D1F-438A-8CA8-5F886CBDD0E1@openinfo.co.uk>

I have rebuilt the MM patches I publish for compatibility with MM 2.1.9

There are no functional changes but the revised patches should apply   
to the 2.1.9 source code without patch complaining too much.

I have not done much testing due to pressure of other work. If you  
encounter any problems then let me know.

The revised patches are available from my vanity site at http:// 
www.openinfo.co.uk/mm/ and have also been uploaded to sourceforge  
(links to sourceforge tracker also on http://www.openinfo.co.uk/mm/  
index.html).

Richard

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Barrett                               http://www.openinfo.co.uk




From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Oct  3 15:57:56 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 22:57:56 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Threading for integration with message board
In-Reply-To: <p06240505c147bb324c99@[10.57.23.125]>
References: <p06230960c146f6a09261@[128.135.25.11]>
	<PC1760200610021221310750fc38b28d@msapiro>
	<17697.55389.569256.246911@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240505c147bb324c99@[10.57.23.125]>
Message-ID: <17698.27748.532120.786795@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:
 > At 12:26 PM +0900 10/3/06, <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
 > 
 > >  > Not necessarily easy, but see <http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html>.
 > >
 > >  I've heard rumors that there's a Perl module on CPAN implementing
 > >  Jamie's algorithm.
 > 
 > It was my understanding that Mailman already implements Jamie's algorithm.
 > 
 > Is this not correct?

Strictly speaking, it's pipermail that does any threading, which I
don't use (I use MHonArc, which doesn't thread as well as Jamie's
algorithm, but has the advantage that Somebody Else Installs and
Maintains It).  Not Mailman.

So I don't know.

However, the important word there was "Perl", which the OP knows.  I
have a feeling that even an algorithm whose results The Great Jamie
Zawinksi reluctantly admits are never less than thrilling<wink> might
not be tuned to the OP's needs.

So he might want to use a hackable CPAN module rather than a Python
implementation distributed with Mailman.


From leventelpen at gmail.com  Tue Oct  3 16:04:59 2006
From: leventelpen at gmail.com (Levent Elpen)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 17:04:59 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] gmail and yahoo blocked?
In-Reply-To: <bf94e7150610030701i73d1a2c9wcb41065c9f12a1fd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <p06240502c14719a1c187@10.3.1.124>
	<PC176020061002131903056217a6ca75@msapiro>
	<bf94e7150610030701i73d1a2c9wcb41065c9f12a1fd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf94e7150610030704r42ae8c78q698faed6b909753b@mail.gmail.com>

Too many thanks to Mark and Brad.

This is very interesting problem according to me.

I have done as follows:

First, I went to auto-responder and reduced to
autoresponse_graceperiod from 90 to 0.

Then, I received a digest message both my gmail and my yahoo address
in question in "[mylist name]-request@[myservername].net" format.

Second, I went to digest options, loooked at "Can list members choose
to receive list traffic bunched in digests?" and chossed "No".

Third, I went to membership list and cancelled to "digest" check box
both my gmail and my yahoo address (however, these check boxes was
absent before). There was only three digest (two, my gmail and yahoo
addresses) all of the list and I cancelled all. Each one looked at
member options and choose digest option to "Closed"

Fourth, Re-check membership list and I shocked: All digest options
that I cancelled re-placed! The system automatically choose "digest"
checkbox for only these three members (two, my gmail and yahoo
addresses).

I hate digest for mailman!

Please help me.

Sincerely,

Levent Elpen

--
http://www.iks-yayin.com
http://www.cizgifilmciler.org



On 10/2/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Brad Knowles wrote:
>
> >At 10:22 PM +0300 10/2/06, Levent Elpen wrote:
> >
> >>  I have a problem recently (I have not, before). I have two mailman
> >>  lists on my server and cpanel.
> >
> >Please see FAQ 6.11.
> >
> >>                                 One runs properly and send mail to all
> >>  server types include gmail and yahoo. Other, runs properly, too, but
> >>  does not send specially my yahoo and gmail adresses.
> >
> >Please see FAQ 3.42.
>
>
> This may or may not be a problem with Yahoo and/or Gmail blocking, but
> since you have two lists on the same server and both Yahoo and Gmail
> receive and deliver mail from one list and not the other, that rules
> out a lot of the things such as originating domain or IP address that
> are often the basis for blocking.
>
> I would compare the two list configurations side by side to see what's
> different. Possibly something like an explicit Reply-To: on one list
> but not the other or something in the subject_prefix of the blocked
> list is causing this.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From wjustet at gmail.com  Tue Oct  3 16:18:57 2006
From: wjustet at gmail.com (Walter Justet)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 11:18:57 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Aliases problem
Message-ID: <ba9211430610030718h3a4246b9pc9aeddb23a84e54b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, i?m having a problem with mailman 2.1.5+postfix 2.1.5. The server is
working fine for it?s virtual users, i?ve followed the intructions form
README.POSTFIX and created the list, subscribe some users, run the
genaliases script. But these error show up in the log:
*
*Oct  3 10:55:39 Cuervo2 sendmail[2825]: k93Dtd9N002825: to=gesig@[domain],
ctladdr=wjustet@[domain] (48/48), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00,
mailer=relay, pri=30604, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
(Ok: queued as 97E3B440B9)
Oct  3 10:55:40 Cuervo2 amavis[1494]: (01494-01-55) Passed CLEAN, LOCAL [
127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1] <wjustet@[domain]> -> <gesig@[hostname]>, Message-ID:
<1292.10.1.1.23.1159883738.squirrel@[hostname]>, mail_id: 9gKmk34A4+Ey,
Hits: -, queued_as: EB08B440BF, 420 ms
Oct  3 10:55:40 Cuervo2 postfix/lmtp[1605]: 97E3B440B9:
to=<gesig@[hostname]>, orig_to=<gesig@[hostname]>, relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1],
delay=1, status=sent (250 2.6.0 Ok, id=01494-01-55, from
MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025):
250 Ok: queued as EB08B440BF)
Oct  3 10:55:40 Cuervo2 postfix/local[2441]: EB08B440BF:
to=<gesig@[hostname]>, relay=local, delay=1, status=bounced (unknown user:
"gesig")

Note that where i put domain is the corresponding domain, and where it says
hostname is the fqdn for that host, i don?t know why it translate in that
way the email address.
Here?s the output from postconf -n:
alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-aliases.cf,
hash:/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman
bounce_size_limit = 100000
broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
command_directory = /usr/sbin
config_directory = /etc/postfix
content_filter = smtp-amavis:[127.0.0.1]:10024
daemon_directory = /usr/libexec/postfix
debug_peer_level = 2
disable_vrfy_command = yes
home_mailbox = Maildir/
html_directory = no
inet_interfaces = all
local_recipient_maps = $alias_maps $virtual_mailbox_maps unix:passwd.byname
mail_owner = postfix
mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq.postfix
manpage_directory = /usr/share/man
maps_rbl_domains = relays.ordb.org,sbl.spamhaus.org,bl.spamcop.net,
dul.dnsbl.sorbs.net,cbl.abuseat.org
message_size_limit = 3000000
mydestination = $myhostname
mydomain = [domain]
myhostname = [hostname]
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8, 10.0.0.0/8, localhost.localdomain
mynetworks_style = subnet
newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases.postfix
owner_request_special = no
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
readme_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.1.5/README_FILES
recipient_delimiter = +
relay_domains = /etc/postfix/relay_domains
relocated_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-relocated.cf
sample_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.1.5/samples
sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail.postfix
setgid_group = postdrop
smtpd_client_restrictions = permit_mynetworks,check_client_access
mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-client.cf
smtpd_data_restrictions = reject_unauth_pipelining
smtpd_etrn_restrictions = reject
smtpd_helo_required = yes
smtpd_helo_restrictions =
permit_mynetworks,reject_invalid_hostname,reject_non_fqdn_hostname
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, reject_rbl_client
cbl.abuseat.org, reject_rbl_client sbl-xbl.spamhaus.org, reject_rbl_client
list.dsbl.org, reject_rbl_client relays.ordb.org, check_recipient_access
mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-recipient.cf,reject_unauth_destination,permit
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = no
smtpd_sasl_local_domain = $myhostname
smtpd_sasl_security_options = noanonymous
smtpd_sender_restrictions = check_sender_access mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-
sender.cf
transport_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-transport.cf
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual.cf,
hash:/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman
virtual_gid_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-gid.cf
virtual_mailbox_base = /home/vmail
virtual_mailbox_domains = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-domains.cf
virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-maps.cf
virtual_transport = maildrop
virtual_uid_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-uid.cf

Could somebody help me? Thanks!
-- 
Best Regards
Walter


From jheim at math.wisc.edu  Tue Oct  3 16:30:21 2006
From: jheim at math.wisc.edu (John Heim)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 09:30:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] allow members of one list to post to another
References: <PC1760200610021417160953e2f5e069@msapiro>
Message-ID: <06f901c6e6f8$74ee4cd0$4ba65c90@vv507j>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "John Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] allow members of one list to post to another


> John Heim wrote:
>
>>I'm trying to switch my department over from smartlist to mailman. We
>>currently have several smartlists configured so that if you're on one 
>>list,
>>you can post to another even though you may not be  subscribed to the 
>>second
>>list.  How can I reproduce that with mailman?
>
>
> The patch at
> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>
> allows you to do exactly this by placing "@list1" in the
> accept_these_nonmembers list of list2.
>
> -- 


Thanks. I think I got it to work. For other newbies like me who might be 
browsing the list archives, here are some instructions for applying the 
patch:

1. Download the patch to your mailman directory:

cd /usr/local/mailman/
wget 
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/download.php\?group_id=103\&atid=300103\&file_id=138283\&aid=1220144 - 
O listinclusion.patch

2. Apply the patch:

patch -p1 < listinclusion.patch

3. Restart mailman:

/etc/init.d/mailman restart

I don't think it works unless you do step 3 which confused me for a bit.




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Oct  3 16:38:56 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 07:38:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] gmail and yahoo blocked?
In-Reply-To: <bf94e7150610030704r42ae8c78q698faed6b909753b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <p06240502c14719a1c187@10.3.1.124>
	<PC176020061002131903056217a6ca75@msapiro>
	<bf94e7150610030701i73d1a2c9wcb41065c9f12a1fd@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94e7150610030704r42ae8c78q698faed6b909753b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240502c14825cc8843@[10.57.23.125]>

At 5:04 PM +0300 10/3/06, Levent Elpen wrote:

>  Fourth, Re-check membership list and I shocked: All digest options
>  that I cancelled re-placed! The system automatically choose "digest"
>  checkbox for only these three members (two, my gmail and yahoo
>  addresses).

Weird.  I'm just taking a shot in the dark here, but have you checked 
FAQs 4.45, 4.65, and 4.71, to see if any of those apply to you?  I 
know that your description of your problem doesn't sound a whole lot 
like some of the problem descriptions in these FAQ entries, but I 
wonder if a similar issue might be occurring behind the scenes.

Please understand, I would not have expected you to look at these FAQ 
entries before, based on your description of the problem so far.  I'm 
just grasping at straws, trying to see if your problem is anything 
like some problems we have seen before.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Oct  3 16:45:57 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 07:45:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] allow members of one list to post to another
In-Reply-To: <06f901c6e6f8$74ee4cd0$4ba65c90@vv507j>
References: <PC1760200610021417160953e2f5e069@msapiro>
	<06f901c6e6f8$74ee4cd0$4ba65c90@vv507j>
Message-ID: <p06240504c14827e20570@[10.57.23.155]>

At 9:30 AM -0500 10/3/06, John Heim wrote:

>  3. Restart mailman:
>
>  /etc/init.d/mailman restart

Or, for people who are using the Mailman-standard tools to stop and 
restart the program, you would need the step "mailmanctl restart".

>  I don't think it works unless you do step 3 which confused me for a bit.

Yup.  Any time you're changing the underlying code, you've got to 
stop and restart the program.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From mm7 at cs.ucc.ie  Tue Oct  3 19:12:17 2006
From: mm7 at cs.ucc.ie (martin moriarty)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 18:12:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Archive problems with opening attachments
Message-ID: <452299F1.70901@cs.ucc.ie>

Hi There
We're running mailman 2.1.5 successfully here. Weve a particular problem 
with viewing attachments from arhives in a moderated list. I  can send 
an attachment as moderator ( PDF ) to the list and its distributed 
correctly after moderation. If however you go to view it from Archive 
you get the following

-------------- next part --------------

Skipped content of type multipart/mixed 

instead of the attachment, which is a problem for anyone joining the list late

Tried sending the same attachment as another user other than the moderator , again it goes for moderation , is received fine, 
but you receive the following:

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: advert-dsystems-phds.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 21837 bytes
Desc: not available


It does in this case give a url which you can eventually open the attachment, a bit messy.
Does anyone know if its possible to fix this behaviour so that you can view attachments from Archive. It did work for us last year. The
attachments are being saved in the attachments subdirectory within mailman ok
Many thanks in advance
Martin UCC





From md6969 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  3 21:44:45 2006
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 20:44:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approving mails
Message-ID: <4522BDAD.2020904@gmail.com>

Hi

I've checked the FAQ's and can't see (probably because "wood" and 
"trees" springs to mind) how to approve mails without having to go to 
the web to do it. The message I get telling me there's a mail awaiting 
approval states:

"If you reply to this message, keeping the Subject: header intact,
Mailman will discard the held message.  Do this if the message is
spam.  If you reply to this message and include an Approved: header
with the list password in it, the message will be approved for posting
to the list.  The Approved: header can also appear in the first line
of the body of the reply."

If I click "reply" and as the first line of the mail I put "Approved: (list password)" (without the quotes, and with a space after the colon, and without the password in brackets), I get a mail back that shows just that - not the message hitting the list. If I don't put the password in, I get the same thing. I'm obviously overlooking something very simple; could somebody please point me in the right direction.

Rgds

MD



From ki at knifecenter.com  Tue Oct  3 21:46:42 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 15:46:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble Subscribing/Unsubscribing/Sending Messages
Message-ID: <C1483662.3850B%ki@knifecenter.com>

I must have messed up a setting on my mailman server because none of the
requests sent by email are being processed.

When I send a subscribe request to: specials-join at mail.knifecenter.com I see
my Postfix server relaying the message to the mailman server, but it doesn't
actually subscribe the email address that I want to subscribe. Instead,
there are no actions that are taken by the mailman server (to the best of my
knowledge).

Is there a setting that I could have messed up that prevents messages sent
to the mailman server from being process properly?



From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Tue Oct  3 21:56:06 2006
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 15:56:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble Subscribing/Unsubscribing/Sending
	Messages
In-Reply-To: <C1483662.3850B%ki@knifecenter.com>
References: <C1483662.3850B%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <4522C056.4050703@wingfoot.org>

Ki Song wrote:
> I must have messed up a setting on my mailman server because none of the
> requests sent by email are being processed.
> 
> When I send a subscribe request to: specials-join at mail.knifecenter.com I see
> my Postfix server relaying the message to the mailman server, but it doesn't
> actually subscribe the email address that I want to subscribe. Instead,
> there are no actions that are taken by the mailman server (to the best of my
> knowledge).
> 
> Is there a setting that I could have messed up that prevents messages sent
> to the mailman server from being process properly?

First thing I'd check is to make sure mailman is actually running...

ps awwux | grep mailman

If nothing shows up, you need to launch the mailman qrunners:

mailmanctl start

Best,
--Glenn


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Tue Oct  3 22:05:01 2006
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 09:05:01 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New version of Mailman
Message-ID: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A37C7BA92@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi,

Where would I find info on Mailman 2, its advantages etc over 1? Sort of
like a white paper and/or release notes. Not having much luck with
Google or the Mailman site....

regards

Steven Jones
Senior  Linux/Unix/San System Administrator
APG -Technology Integration Team
Victoria University of Wellington
Phone: +64 4 463 6272 Mobile: +64 27 563 6272 



From pfd at pfdstudio.com  Tue Oct  3 22:14:36 2006
From: pfd at pfdstudio.com (Peter Davis)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 16:14:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie comments/questions
Message-ID: <4522C4AC.9090403@pfdstudio.com>


I just inherited ownership of a Mailman 2.1.5 list, my first exposure to 
Mailman, though I've run lists on majordomo, Yahoo!, etc.  I've checked 
the FAQ, but didn't find answers to these:

1) If my list is set so that only members can post, and I have a spam 
filter set up to hold messages whose subject line contains, for example, 
the word "spam,"  why do non-member messages with "spam" in the subject 
get put in the approval queue?  Shouldn't the non-member filter take 
precedence over the "spam" filter, and reject the message without 
requiring moderator intervention?  Is there a way to set that?

2) Is there a way to set up a filter to catch messages with a blank 
subject line?  I tried "subject:\s$", but this did nothing.

Thank you!

-pd

-- 
--------
                            Peter Davis
              Funny stuff at http://www.pfdstudio.com
   List of resources for children's writers and illustrators at:
                 http://www.pfdstudio.com/cwrl.html





From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Tue Oct  3 22:35:52 2006
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 09:35:52 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New version of Mailman
Message-ID: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A37C7BA9C@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi,

Please ignore, suffering from brain fade....

regards

Steven Jones
Senior  Linux/Unix/San System Administrator
APG -Technology Integration Team
Victoria University of Wellington
Phone: +64 4 463 6272 Mobile: +64 27 563 6272 



From chrisf at lucidoc.com  Tue Oct  3 22:50:53 2006
From: chrisf at lucidoc.com (chris fergus)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 13:50:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] links in outgoingmail not working
Message-ID: <001501c6e72d$9e1d4220$d882a8c0@JCF>

 

I have mm 2.1.5, Exim4 installed on a Debian box.

 

When setting up mailing lists the link in the outgoing email fails with a
404 error

 

The link is:

 

https://mail.servername.com/cgi-bin/admin/listname.... (Not Found)

 

The requested URL /cgi-bin/admin/internal was not found on this server.

 

I can get to the initial admin page at:

 

https://mail.servername/mailman/admin/mailman

 

but not the overview page

 

https://mail.servername.com/cgi-bin/listinfo

 

I get the 404 error.

 

My mm_cfg.py variable looks like this:

 

"DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/cgi-bin/'"

"PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/cgi-bin/private'"

 

My apached.conf looks like this:

 

#ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ /usr/lib/cgi-bin/

 

 

ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/

 

#

# "/usr/lib/cgi-bin" could be changed to whatever your ScriptAliased # CGI
directory exists, if you have that configured.

#

<Directory /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/>

    AllowOverride None

    Options ExecCGI

    Order allow,deny

    Allow from all

</Directory>

 

Iv'e tried tweeking the variables in both configs and running

 

'bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url'  

 

each time, but the problem usually, but not always gets worse; when I try
the link again, it just gives me a blank page (not accessable)

 

The output from the above command is always the following:

 

'importing fix_url....

Running fix_url.fix_url...

Loading list mailman (locked)

saving list

Loading list internal (locked)

Saving list

Finalizing'

 

It gives me the above response whether mailman is running or not. (which I
think is correct)

 

Additionally, the outgoing email to the <newlist> admin is the following
(which doesn't seem right):

 

'internal-bounces at mail.lucidoc.com; on behalf of;
mailman-admin at mail.lucidoc.com

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Chris

 

 

 

 



From leventelpen at gmail.com  Wed Oct  4 00:02:46 2006
From: leventelpen at gmail.com (Levent Elpen)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 01:02:46 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] gmail and yahoo blocked?
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c14825cc8843@10.57.23.125>
References: <p06240502c14719a1c187@10.3.1.124>
	<PC176020061002131903056217a6ca75@msapiro>
	<bf94e7150610030701i73d1a2c9wcb41065c9f12a1fd@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94e7150610030704r42ae8c78q698faed6b909753b@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240502c14825cc8843@10.57.23.125>
Message-ID: <bf94e7150610031502x3074330ob4a0c998056713fe@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks...

I made too self-efforts about this problem before I registered this
group and asked my questions to you. These FAQs never answer my
questions exactly. However, it is not possible to search so long and
variable questions at Python's Mailman FAQ Wizard web pages.

I cancelled my group's all digest options and automatically digestable
problem have not seen so far.

Basically, I'm curious about why owner and moderator (addresses) did
not receive his own messages to his mailboxes though he received
automatic sending information individually. I did not solve it.

And, why some owner and moderator messages did not deliver to some mailboxes?

I think, I should reduce my maliman lists on my server. There should
be ONE mailman list on my server. Otherwise, I'll go mad (!)

Sincerely,
L.E.

-- 
http://www.iks-yayin.com
http://www.cizgifilmciler.org



On 10/3/06, Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:
> At 5:04 PM +0300 10/3/06, Levent Elpen wrote:
>
> >  Fourth, Re-check membership list and I shocked: All digest options
> >  that I cancelled re-placed! The system automatically choose "digest"
> >  checkbox for only these three members (two, my gmail and yahoo
> >  addresses).
>
> Weird.  I'm just taking a shot in the dark here, but have you checked
> FAQs 4.45, 4.65, and 4.71, to see if any of those apply to you?  I
> know that your description of your problem doesn't sound a whole lot
> like some of the problem descriptions in these FAQ entries, but I
> wonder if a similar issue might be occurring behind the scenes.
>
> Please understand, I would not have expected you to look at these FAQ
> entries before, based on your description of the problem so far.  I'm
> just grasping at straws, trying to see if your problem is anything
> like some problems we have seen before.
>
> --
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.
>


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct  4 03:16:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 18:16:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] invoke new pages
In-Reply-To: <AAA84820D5874F46B68C394C41FBBB2237E611@SEXGW3K-H2010.local.bibalex.dom>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610031816320312a44803f8@msapiro>

Peter Soccar wrote:
>
>I'm using rpm to install mailman 2.7.1-1.2 on fedora5
>
>and I need to create a new page like admin or admindb to handle an additional role
>
>unfortunately in the setup I have i couldn't find cgi-wrapper.c to recompile it in order to invoke the new page
>
>is there a way to make mailman recognize my new page (and put its executable in the CGI-BIN folder) or will I have to install another version of mail man not using rpm.


First of all, if you are going to be modifying Mailman at this level, I
suggest you first download the current 2.1.9 tarball and unpack
configure and install it as an upgrade to your RPM installation. One
issue with this is I think the Fedora 5 RPM includes Red Hat's
modifications to support FHS. You can find a patch for this at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2004-October/017343.html>.

If you don't want to do this, you can find what you need in the
Subversion repository at
<http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/mailman/tags/Release_2_1_7/mailman/src/>.
You will need cgi-wrapper.c, common.c and common.h. You will also need
to examine Makefile.in and figure out what configure would do to turn
it into Makefile in order to see how to build the binary.

Alternatively, if you have tools for patching executable binaries, you
could take for example the existing admindb wrapper and patch the two
occurrances of 'admindb' to some other six character name which is the
name of your new script and wrapper.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct  4 03:50:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 18:50:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] links in outgoingmail not working
In-Reply-To: <001501c6e72d$9e1d4220$d882a8c0@JCF>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610031850340812a44805ee@msapiro>

chris fergus wrote:
>
>I can get to the initial admin page at:
>
>https://mail.servername.com/mailman/admin/mailman
>
>but not the overview page
>
>https://mail.servername.com/cgi-bin/listinfo
>
>I get the 404 error.
>
>My mm_cfg.py variable looks like this:
>
>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/cgi-bin/'
>PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/cgi-bin/private'
>
>My apached.conf looks like this:
>
>#ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ /usr/lib/cgi-bin/
>
>
>ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/


So you need to access Mailman CGI pages via URLs of the form
scheme://host/mailman/... as in your example above that works. This
means you need (for https scheme)


DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'

in mm_cfg.py. After making this change, you need to run fix_url as
below.


>Iv'e tried tweeking the variables in both configs and running
>
>'bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url'  
>
>each time, but the problem usually, but not always gets worse; when I try
>the link again, it just gives me a blank page (not accessable)
>
>The output from the above command is always the following:
>
>'importing fix_url....
>Running fix_url.fix_url...
>Loading list mailman (locked)
>saving list
>Loading list internal (locked)
>Saving list
>Finalizing'
>
>It gives me te above response whether mailman is running or not. (which I
think is correct)



Right. It is independent of whether or not Mailman is running. The
above is the expected output, but it won't do the right thing if
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN is wrong.


>Additionally, the outgoing email to the <newlist> admin is the following
>(which doesn't seem right):
>
>'internal-bounces at mail.lucidoc.com; on behalf of;
>mailman-admin at mail.lucidoc.com


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct  4 05:01:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 20:01:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Threading for integration with message board
In-Reply-To: <p06240505c147bb324c99@[10.57.23.125]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610032001050125a4480322@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 12:26 PM +0900 10/3/06, <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
>
>>  > Not necessarily easy, but see <http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html>.
>>
>>  I've heard rumors that there's a Perl module on CPAN implementing
>>  Jamie's algorithm.
>
>It was my understanding that Mailman already implements Jamie's algorithm.
>
>Is this not correct?


I think it is not correct. I haven't really researched the pipermail
threading algorithm, but based on observation of the results, I think
it only threads based on the parent's Message-ID: being found in the
In-Reply-To: or References: of the child. Jamie's algorithm is much
more elaborate than that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jeff.donsbach at gmail.com  Wed Oct  4 05:19:58 2006
From: jeff.donsbach at gmail.com (Jeff Donsbach)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 23:19:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Threading for integration with message board
In-Reply-To: <p06230960c146f6a09261@128.135.25.11>
References: <p06230960c146f6a09261@128.135.25.11>
Message-ID: <22976ef80610032019l4ca126d4l4de3c745088c1dd@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/2/06, Robert Hsiung <dr-bob at uchicago.edu> wrote:
>
> Hi, everyone,
>
> Do any of you know of an easy way to organize email into threads?
> Have any of you integrated a Mailman list and a message board?



Mail2Forum might give you a good start -

http://sourceforge.net/projects/m2f/

Hope this helps....

Jeff D


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct  4 05:25:47 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 20:25:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble Subscribing/Unsubscribing/Sending
	Messages
In-Reply-To: <C1483662.3850B%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610032025470843a448061a@msapiro>

Ki Song wrote:

>I must have messed up a setting on my mailman server because none of the
>requests sent by email are being processed.
>
>When I send a subscribe request to: specials-join at mail.knifecenter.com I see
>my Postfix server relaying the message to the mailman server,


How? Is it piping the message to "| path/to/mail/mailman join specials"?


>but it doesn't
>actually subscribe the email address that I want to subscribe. Instead,
>there are no actions that are taken by the mailman server (to the best of my
>knowledge).
>
>Is there a setting that I could have messed up that prevents messages sent
>to the mailman server from being process properly?


Yes. First step is to verify that the message to specials-join is being
piped to the wrapper with arguments "join specials" (you should see
this in your postfix log). If not, you need to check your aliases for
Postfix.

If the message is being piped correctly, see if it is sitting in
qfiles/commands/. If so, then as Glen suggests in another reply, make
sure CommandRunner is running.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct  4 05:56:09 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 20:56:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie comments/questions
In-Reply-To: <4522C4AC.9090403@pfdstudio.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610032056090359a4480410@msapiro>

Peter Davis wrote:
>
>I just inherited ownership of a Mailman 2.1.5 list, my first exposure to 
>Mailman, though I've run lists on majordomo, Yahoo!, etc.  I've checked 
>the FAQ, but didn't find answers to these:
>
>1) If my list is set so that only members can post, and I have a spam 
>filter set up to hold messages whose subject line contains, for example, 
>the word "spam,"  why do non-member messages with "spam" in the subject 
>get put in the approval queue?  Shouldn't the non-member filter take 
>precedence over the "spam" filter, and reject the message without 
>requiring moderator intervention?  Is there a way to set that?


I assume you are using header_filter_rules, not bounce_matching_headers.

Here's the story. Various things are done in a 'pipeline' of handler
modules.

Membership tests are done in 'Moderate'.
header_filter_rules are checked in 'SpamDetect.
bounce_matching_headers are checked in 'Hold'

The order of these modules in the pipeline is set by default via the
definition of GLOBAL_PIPELINE in Defaults.py. There are several other
modules, but the default order of the above three is 'SpamDetect',
'Moderate', 'Hold'.

Since by default, membership tests are done before
bounce_matching_headers, you could use bounce_matching_headers to hold
the spam and the test will be done after membership.

You can continue to use header_filter_rules and reorder the pipeline so
'SpamDetect' comes after 'Moderate'. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.067.htp>
which addresses a different issue, but will give hints as to how to
reorder the pipeline for a single list or all lists. Note that
reordering the pipline requires a level of access to the Mailman
server that you may not have.


>2) Is there a way to set up a filter to catch messages with a blank 
>subject line?  I tried "subject:\s$", but this did nothing.


In header_filter_rules, the pattern

 ^subject:\s*$

should work. In bounce_matching_headers

 subject: ^\s*$

should work. I don't think either of these will catch a post with no
Subject: header at all though.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct  4 06:20:29 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 21:20:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Archive problems with opening
	attachments
In-Reply-To: <452299F1.70901@cs.ucc.ie>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610032120290734a448059b@msapiro>

martin moriarty wrote:

>We're running mailman 2.1.5 successfully here. Weve a particular problem 
>with viewing attachments from arhives in a moderated list. I  can send 
>an attachment as moderator ( PDF ) to the list and its distributed 
>correctly after moderation. If however you go to view it from Archive 
>you get the following
>
>-------------- next part --------------
>
>Skipped content of type multipart/mixed 
>
>instead of the attachment, which is a problem for anyone joining the list late
>
>Tried sending the same attachment as another user other than the moderator , again it goes for moderation , is received fine, 
>but you receive the following:
>
>-------------- next part --------------
>A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>Name: advert-dsystems-phds.pdf
>Type: application/pdf
>Size: 21837 bytes
>Desc: not available
>
>
>It does in this case give a url which you can eventually open the attachment, a bit messy.


The second behavior is the expected behavior. I don't know why it would
be different depending on who posts except perhaps different MUAs are
used resulting in a different MIME structure for the message.

I don't recall the details, but there have been scrubber issues in the
past that could result in the first behavior, but this really
shouldn't happen.


>Does anyone know if its possible to fix this behaviour so that you can view attachments from Archive. It did work for us last year. The
>attachments are being saved in the attachments subdirectory within mailman ok


Pipermail does not have the ability to archive Multipart messages at
all, not to mention the ability to convert a PDF attachment to HTML so
it could be viewed inline in the archive.

Thus, all messages must be 'scrubbed' before archiving. Scrubbing
consists of saving all non-plain text attachments and plain text parts
with incompatible character sets separately in the 'attachments'
directory and replacing them with hyperlinks in the original message
and flattening the original into a single plain text message for the
archive.

If there are problems with the current (2.1.9) scrubber, we would like
to get the details (a copy of the original problem message with all
headers and MIME structure intact) so we can fix the scrubber, but
messages to be archived by pipermail must be scrubbed to be
intelligible in the archive. The only way around this is to use a
different (external) archiver, but I don't think you are ever going to
be able to display PDF inline in an HTML page in a browser independent
way without converting it to HTML which defeats the entire purpose of
using PDF in the first place.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct  4 06:37:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 21:37:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approving mails
In-Reply-To: <4522BDAD.2020904@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610032137100375f22ef9e1@msapiro>

Martin Dennett wrote:
>
>"If you reply to this message, keeping the Subject: header intact,
>Mailman will discard the held message.  Do this if the message is
>spam.  If you reply to this message and include an Approved: header
>with the list password in it, the message will be approved for posting
>to the list.  The Approved: header can also appear in the first line
>of the body of the reply."


That text comes from a message/rfc822 part which is the third sub-part
of the multipart/mixed moderator notice you receive. By "reply to this
message" it means reply to the message contained in the message/rfc822
sub-part. Which may or may not be easy to do (i.e. with a 'reply'
function) depending on your particular MUA.

You can still do it, but your Approved: line must be in a message sent
to the <listname>-request and with the subject of the sub-part
message, i.e. "confirm <40 digit hex token>" (perhaps preceded by "Re
:", but not by "Re : ".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct  4 06:58:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 21:58:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approving mails
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610032137100375f22ef9e1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC17602006100321584908590433e8cc@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>You can still do it, but your Approved: line must be in a message sent
>to the <listname>-request and with the subject of the sub-part
>message, i.e. "confirm <40 digit hex token>" (perhaps preceded by "Re
>:", but not by "Re : ".


I think I fumble fingered the above. What I meant was it's OK if your
MUA puts "Re: " in front of the subject, but it's not OK if it puts
"Re : " or "Re:" infront of the subject. I.e., subjects like

Subject: confirm <token>

or

Subject: Re: confirm <token>

or even

Subject: xyz: confirm <token>

will all work, but

Subject: Re:confirm <token>

and

Subject: Re : confirm <token>

will not work. This is because if the first 'word' of the subject is
not a recognized command, CommandRunner strips the first 'word' and
tries again, but it only does this once.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From md6969 at gmail.com  Wed Oct  4 08:18:09 2006
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 07:18:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approving mails
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006100321584908590433e8cc@msapiro>
References: <PC17602006100321584908590433e8cc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45235221.2050406@gmail.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>   
>> You can still do it, but your Approved: line must be in a message sent
>> to the <listname>-request and with the subject of the sub-part
>> message, i.e. "confirm <40 digit hex token>" (perhaps preceded by "Re
>> :", but not by "Re : ".
>>     
>
>
> I think I fumble fingered the above. What I meant was it's OK if your
> MUA puts "Re: " in front of the subject, but it's not OK if it puts
> "Re : " or "Re:" infront of the subject. I.e., subjects like
>
> Subject: confirm <token>
>
> or
>
> Subject: Re: confirm <token>
>
> or even
>
> Subject: xyz: confirm <token>
>
> will all work, but
>
> Subject: Re:confirm <token>
>
> and
>
> Subject: Re : confirm <token>
>
> will not work. This is because if the first 'word' of the subject is
> not a recognized command, CommandRunner strips the first 'word' and
> tries again, but it only does this once.
Err... good job I'm 8 (?) hours ahead of you and had time to read both 
mails before trying anything ;-)

Success! The first time I tried it, Thunderbird forwards mails of this 
type as .eml attachments, which get refused at the server as potentially 
dangerous and so it bounced back to me! Second time, copying and pasting 
the confirm <token> line into a mail and sending that to -request caused 
the mail to be discarded as I forgot the Approved: (password) as the 
first line of the mail :-[

Undaunted I created a further mail which - worked! Thanks for that - 
another of the "how do I do that" questions answered. Watch out for my 
next one in a moment....

MD


From md6969 at gmail.com  Wed Oct  4 08:23:10 2006
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 07:23:10 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Another puzzler
Message-ID: <4523534E.5090005@gmail.com>

This one has me completely baffled. Whenever a mail is hitting one of my 
lists, I'm getting an "undeliverable" bounce message. The message comes 
from "Mailer-Daemon at someisp.com", and the body of the mail states:

The message that you sent was undeliverable to the following: 

	bhaggett (UNUSED)

Herein lies the problem. "bhaggett" is not a member of the list, nor is "someisp.com" represented on the member list.

There is no other information in the bounce message, so how do I find out who the message is really trying to be delivered to?

Rgds

MD




From mm7 at cs.ucc.ie  Wed Oct  4 09:27:48 2006
From: mm7 at cs.ucc.ie (martin moriarty)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 08:27:48 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Archive problems with opening
	attachments
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610032120290734a448059b@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200610032120290734a448059b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45236274.8030908@cs.ucc.ie>

Many thanks for the good and  informational answer. I'll be upgrading to 
2.1.9 soon so will check it out as well
thanks
Mark Sapiro wrote:

>martin moriarty wrote:
>
>  
>
>>We're running mailman 2.1.5 successfully here. Weve a particular problem 
>>with viewing attachments from arhives in a moderated list. I  can send 
>>an attachment as moderator ( PDF ) to the list and its distributed 
>>correctly after moderation. If however you go to view it from Archive 
>>you get the following
>>
>>-------------- next part --------------
>>
>>Skipped content of type multipart/mixed 
>>
>>instead of the attachment, which is a problem for anyone joining the list late
>>
>>Tried sending the same attachment as another user other than the moderator , again it goes for moderation , is received fine, 
>>but you receive the following:
>>
>>-------------- next part --------------
>>A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>>Name: advert-dsystems-phds.pdf
>>Type: application/pdf
>>Size: 21837 bytes
>>Desc: not available
>>
>>
>>It does in this case give a url which you can eventually open the attachment, a bit messy.
>>    
>>
>
>
>The second behavior is the expected behavior. I don't know why it would
>be different depending on who posts except perhaps different MUAs are
>used resulting in a different MIME structure for the message.
>
>I don't recall the details, but there have been scrubber issues in the
>past that could result in the first behavior, but this really
>shouldn't happen.
>
>
>  
>
>>Does anyone know if its possible to fix this behaviour so that you can view attachments from Archive. It did work for us last year. The
>>attachments are being saved in the attachments subdirectory within mailman ok
>>    
>>
>
>
>Pipermail does not have the ability to archive Multipart messages at
>all, not to mention the ability to convert a PDF attachment to HTML so
>it could be viewed inline in the archive.
>
>Thus, all messages must be 'scrubbed' before archiving. Scrubbing
>consists of saving all non-plain text attachments and plain text parts
>with incompatible character sets separately in the 'attachments'
>directory and replacing them with hyperlinks in the original message
>and flattening the original into a single plain text message for the
>archive.
>
>If there are problems with the current (2.1.9) scrubber, we would like
>to get the details (a copy of the original problem message with all
>headers and MIME structure intact) so we can fix the scrubber, but
>messages to be archived by pipermail must be scrubbed to be
>intelligible in the archive. The only way around this is to use a
>different (external) archiver, but I don't think you are ever going to
>be able to display PDF inline in an HTML page in a browser independent
>way without converting it to HTML which defeats the entire purpose of
>using PDF in the first place.
>
>  
>



From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Oct  4 10:07:13 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 17:07:13 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Another puzzler
In-Reply-To: <4523534E.5090005@gmail.com>
References: <4523534E.5090005@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17699.27569.599116.309579@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Martin Dennett writes:

 > There is no other information in the bounce message, so how do I
 > find out who the message is really trying to be delivered to?

You can start by tracing the headers in the bounce message, but they
probably don't help.  Then you'll have to reconfigure your list to use
VERP.  This may involve reconfiguring the MTA.  Look for "VERP" in the
FAQ.

Steve


From mohamed.elesawy at gmail.com  Wed Oct  4 10:06:52 2006
From: mohamed.elesawy at gmail.com (Mohamed Mostafa)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 10:06:52 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] location
Message-ID: <617d0e20610040106m2c1f835ajad584ce4e490c4c3@mail.gmail.com>

i'm using mailman 2.1.7 on fedora core 5
i want to know where does the mailman save the email adresses of the
members? (the location of the file if it saves it in a file?)

thanks


From R.Bannocks at nhm.ac.uk  Wed Oct  4 11:38:19 2006
From: R.Bannocks at nhm.ac.uk (Robert Bannocks)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 10:38:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re-enabling users who exceed the bounce threshold
Message-ID: <8BFA9B2CBF825446AF400AD3A7B921CD05C366@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>

How can I as a list administrator re-enable or more correctly re-set a
given users bounce score.  In this case the causes of the bounces is out
of the users hands.  I cannot see a way to do this in the web interface
of on the FAQ/googling etc.

 

Regards

 



From mm7 at cs.ucc.ie  Wed Oct  4 15:15:19 2006
From: mm7 at cs.ucc.ie (martin moriarty)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 14:15:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] X-SPAM-FILTER problems
Message-ID: <4523B3E7.4050609@cs.ucc.ie>

Hi there
We run a multitude ( 20+) of mailman lists, some moderated, and some 
unmoderated. In each case we would like to discard those previously 
identified as spam by spam assassin. We run Mailman Version 2.1.5. Ive 
added in spam filter rules/expression: X-SPAM-FLAG:YES . Seems to work 
for a while, then stops working.
Also tried other regular expressions filtering on the Subject: . All 
appear to work, then stop working. When you look at the administrative 
interface , the rule/regular expression has disappeared. No error 
message appears to indicate Ive put the commands in inaccurately, indeed 
they work fine for a while. Any ideas on where I could be going wrong 
would be much appreciated
Regards
Martin

.


From ki at knifecenter.com  Wed Oct  4 15:30:34 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 09:30:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble
	Subscribing/Unsubscribing/Sending	Messages
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610032025470843a448061a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C1492FB9.3874A%ki@knifecenter.com>

>> I must have messed up a setting on my mailman server because none of the
>> requests sent by email are being processed.
>> 
>> When I send a subscribe request to: specials-join at mail.knifecenter.com I see
>> my Postfix server relaying the message to the mailman server,
> 
> 
> How? Is it piping the message to "| path/to/mail/mailman join specials"?
> 
The message is being piped to path/to/mail/mailman join specials by postfix.

> 
>> but it doesn't
>> actually subscribe the email address that I want to subscribe. Instead,
>> there are no actions that are taken by the mailman server (to the best of my
>> knowledge).
>> 
>> Is there a setting that I could have messed up that prevents messages sent
>> to the mailman server from being process properly?
> 
> 
> Yes. First step is to verify that the message to specials-join is being
> piped to the wrapper with arguments "join specials" (you should see
> this in your postfix log). If not, you need to check your aliases for
> Postfix.
> 
The message is being piped to path/to/mail/mailman join specials by postfix.

> If the message is being piped correctly, see if it is sitting in
> qfiles/commands/. If so, then as Glen suggests in another reply, make
> sure CommandRunner is running.
> 
There are a bunch of files sitting in the qfiles/commands directory.
How do I make sure CommandRunner is running?



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Oct  4 08:40:14 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 23:40:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Another puzzler
In-Reply-To: <4523534E.5090005@gmail.com>
References: <4523534E.5090005@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240502c14907932ee9@[10.3.1.124]>

At 7:23 AM +0100 10/4/06, Martin Dennett wrote:

>  There is no other information in the bounce message, so how do I
>  find out who the message is really trying to be delivered to?

This kind of problem is what VERP was designed to make much easier to 
detect.  Check the relevant FAQ entries on this subject, and keep in 
mind that this may require a level of access to your Mailman server 
that you may not have.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From ki at knifecenter.com  Wed Oct  4 15:35:27 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 09:35:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble
	Subscribing/Unsubscribing/Sending	Messages
In-Reply-To: <C1492FB9.3874A%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <C14930DF.3875E%ki@knifecenter.com>

>> If the message is being piped correctly, see if it is sitting in
>> qfiles/commands/. If so, then as Glen suggests in another reply, make
>> sure CommandRunner is running.
>> 
> There are a bunch of files sitting in the qfiles/commands directory.
> How do I make sure CommandRunner is running?

Got it. I just restarted mailmanctl and it is running smoothly.

How come this process is not running by default?
How can I make sure that the next time the system is rebooted, that
mailmanctl starts on boot?



From pfd at pfdstudio.com  Wed Oct  4 15:51:46 2006
From: pfd at pfdstudio.com (Peter Davis)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 09:51:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie comments/questions
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610032056090359a4480410@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200610032056090359a4480410@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4523BC72.3020803@pfdstudio.com>

Thanks, Mark,

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I assume you are using header_filter_rules, not bounce_matching_headers.
>   
Correct.

> Since by default, membership tests are done before
> bounce_matching_headers, you could use bounce_matching_headers to hold
> the spam and the test will be done after membership.
>   
Possibly, but I want to hold these messages to determine whether or not 
they are truly spam.  I don't want to simply bounce them automatically.

> You can continue to use header_filter_rules and reorder the pipeline so
> 'SpamDetect' comes after 'Moderate'. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.067.htp>
> which addresses a different issue, but will give hints as to how to
> reorder the pipeline for a single list or all lists. Note that
> reordering the pipline requires a level of access to the Mailman
> server that you may not have.
>   
Correct again.  I'm using Mailman on a hosting service, so I have very 
limited access.

>> 2) Is there a way to set up a filter to catch messages with a blank 
>> subject line?  I tried "subject:\s$", but this did nothing.
>>     
>
>
> In header_filter_rules, the pattern
>
>  ^subject:\s*$
>
> should work. 
FAQ entry 3.32 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.032.htp> says:

_Don't_ try to match the whole line by enclosing your pattern between 
beginning of line anchor ('^') and end of line anchor ('$').

Should I ignore that?

-pd

-- 
--------
                            Peter Davis
              Funny stuff at http://www.pfdstudio.com
   List of resources for children's writers and illustrators at:
                 http://www.pfdstudio.com/cwrl.html



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct  4 16:30:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 07:30:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] location
In-Reply-To: <617d0e20610040106m2c1f835ajad584ce4e490c4c3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006100407305401257529ef13@msapiro>

Mohamed Mostafa wrote:

>i'm using mailman 2.1.7 on fedora core 5
>i want to know where does the mailman save the email adresses of the
>members? (the location of the file if it saves it in a file?)


Mailman saves all list configuration information as a Python pickle in
the file lists/<listname>/config.pck. If you are not using a custom
MemberAdaptor to store membership info in your own database, the
config.pck includes all the membership information (addresses,
options, passwords, bounce info, ...).

The default location of the lists/ directory is /usr/local/mailman/.
RedHat used to put everything in /var/mailman/, but their more recent
packages put the lists/ directory in /var/lib/mailman/, so I think you
are looking for /var/lib/mailman/lists/<listname>/config.pck. If you
don't find it there, use 'find / -name config.pck' to search for it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct  4 16:51:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 07:51:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re-enabling users who exceed the bounce
	threshold
In-Reply-To: <8BFA9B2CBF825446AF400AD3A7B921CD05C366@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC17602006100407513802657529ef8f@msapiro>

Robert Bannocks wrote:

>How can I as a list administrator re-enable or more correctly re-set a
>given users bounce score.  In this case the causes of the bounces is out
>of the users hands.  I cannot see a way to do this in the web interface
>of on the FAQ/googling etc.


Go to the admin Membership List and set 'nomail' for the user and then
immediately reset it.

If you have command line access to Mailman, you can create a withlist
script to do this. See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-August/052700.html>
for a withlist script the sets 'nomail'. You could add the line

    mlist.setDeliveryStatus(member, MemberAdaptor.ENABLED)

immediately following the line

    mlist.setDeliveryStatus(member, MemberAdaptor.BYADMIN)

in that script to do this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kclair at gmail.com  Wed Oct  4 17:01:36 2006
From: kclair at gmail.com (K. Clair)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 10:01:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages to listname-bounces lost
Message-ID: <dff375270610040801w5887968dxa2577ea7a855523b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I'm trying to move our current nfs-based mailman setup (where we have
separate mail and web servers and mailman files on nfs) to a dedicated
mailman machine (where our mail and web servers will forward and
proxy, respectively, mailman requests to the mailman machine).

For mail, I have set up virtual domain aliases on our mail servers to
forward mail to lists at virtual domains to the local list aliases on
the mailman machine, for example:
listname at domain.com -> listname at mailman.server.com
listname-bounces at domain.com -> listname-bounces at mailman.server.com
etc...

When I try to submit a subscribe request via the web interface (which
happens on the mailman server), I see mail sent to the
listname-bounces address.  Since the listname is set up to send mail
from its virtual domain, the mail first goes to
listname-bounces at domain.com.  This of course forwards back to
listname-bounces at mailman.server.com.
It is at this point that it gets lost - it gets sent to the mailman
command, and nothing happens.  Nothing in the error log or any of the
logs.
The mail logs look like this:

Oct  3 17:08:54 rm-101-11 postfix/smtp[12624]: EFC9211700FC:
to=<ladies-bounces at domain.com>, relay=mail.server.com[IP]:25,
delay=0.15, delays=0.04/0/0.09/0.01, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 Ok:
queued as DF530288DC)

Oct  3 17:09:38 rm-101-11 postfix/local[12633]: 5D62711700F2:
to=<ladies-bounces at mailman.server.com>, relay=local, delay=0.44,
delays=0.01/0.02/0/0.41, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command:
/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces ladies)

Is this a problem that is being caused by the forwarding setup?

Thanks,
Kristina


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct  4 17:07:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 08:07:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users]
	TroubleSubscribing/Unsubscribing/Sending	Messages
In-Reply-To: <C14930DF.3875E%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610040807150406dbad65e5@msapiro>

Ki Song wrote:
>
>Got it. I just restarted mailmanctl and it is running smoothly.
>
>How come this process is not running by default?
>How can I make sure that the next time the system is rebooted, that
>mailmanctl starts on boot?

It probably does. If not, you probably want to install the
scripts/mailman script so it does. See
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node42.html>.

mailmanctl starts all eight qrunners. In your case, it seems that at
some point, CommandRunner died. Check Mailman's qrunner log for
information about this. Also, once you have determined from the
qrunner log when CommandRunner stopped, look at Mailman's error log
and perhaps other system logs for more information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pfd at pfdstudio.com  Wed Oct  4 17:02:33 2006
From: pfd at pfdstudio.com (Peter Davis)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 11:02:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re-enabling users who exceed the bounce
	threshold
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006100407513802657529ef8f@msapiro>
References: <8BFA9B2CBF825446AF400AD3A7B921CD05C366@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>
	<PC17602006100407513802657529ef8f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <8d633bfe0610040802r68dbdb89o198791e634e2808e@mail.gmail.com>

Here's a related question:

I run a list of about 2300 subscribers, of whom perhaps a third are using
Comcast services.  Lately, Comcast has been blocking messages from this
list, probably because someone reported the list as spam once.  All our
efforts to persuade Comcast that the 2300 subscribers have chosen to receive
the list, and that it is *not* spam, have been unsuccessful so far.

As a consequence, all these members wind up getting bounced, and eventually
their subscriptions are disabled.  I've gone through manually and un-bounced
all the bounced members, but this is extremely tedious and slow, because
Mailman makes me do 1 letter of the alphabet at a time, and then only 20 or
30 subscribers at a time.

Is there a fast way?  Is there a way to automatically un-bounce all bouncing
members?

I realize this won't solve the Comcast problem.  These members still won't
get their messages from the list, but at least if Comcast reopens the gates,
the mail will flow.

On another note, I'd like to be able to get a list of all the subscribers
with comcast.net addresses, so I can write to them off-list.  I'd settle for
a list of all subscribers, which I can then filter with grep.  But I don't
see any way to get a full list, other than by asking the host site
administrators nicely, and hoping for the best.

Thanks,
-pd



-- 
--------
                             Peter Davis
               Funny stuff at http://www.pfdstudio.com
    List of resources for children's writers and illustrators at:
                  http://www.pfdstudio.com/cwrl.html


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct  4 17:29:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 08:29:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie comments/questions
In-Reply-To: <4523BC72.3020803@pfdstudio.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610040829150171318b81da@msapiro>

Peter Davis wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Since by default, membership tests are done before
>> bounce_matching_headers, you could use bounce_matching_headers to hold
>> the spam and the test will be done after membership.
>>   
>Possibly, but I want to hold these messages to determine whether or not 
>they are truly spam.  I don't want to simply bounce them automatically.


That's what bounce_matching_headers does. Historically, it may have
bounced, but currently it holds despite the attribute name. It says:

  Hold posts with header value matching a specified regexp.
                      (Details for bounce_matching_headers)

and 'hold' is what it does.


>FAQ entry 3.32 
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.032.htp> says:
>
>_Don't_ try to match the whole line by enclosing your pattern between 
>beginning of line anchor ('^') and end of line anchor ('$').
>
>Should I ignore that?


I don't think that part of the FAQ entry is correct. Try it and report
back so we can update the FAQ if necessary.

The patterns in header_filter_rules are matched (using re.search)
against the entire message headers in MULTILINE mode. In MULTILINE
mode,using re.search, '^' matches the beginning of the string or
immediately following a newline and '$' matches the end of string or
immediately preceding a newline, so I think "^subject:\s*$" should
work. If not, try ^\r?subject:\s*$. In any case, the '^' was not the
critical change to your pattern; it is changing '\s' to '\s*' (which
will also allow '\r' at the end that is critical.

Note also, that bounce_matching_headers works differently than
header_filter_rules. bounce_matching_headers uses the first token to
define a header and then the remainder of the line is an re to search
in the values of all headers of that type.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct  4 18:05:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 09:05:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re-enabling users who exceed the bouncethreshold
In-Reply-To: <8d633bfe0610040802r68dbdb89o198791e634e2808e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006100409051800468c6d3f40@msapiro>

Peter Davis wrote:
>
>Is there a fast way?  Is there a way to automatically un-bounce all bouncing
>members?


Without command line access which I gather you don't have, you can do
it by scripting the web interface which leads to the answer below.


>I realize this won't solve the Comcast problem.  These members still won't
>get their messages from the list, but at least if Comcast reopens the gates,
>the mail will flow.


This may be the appropriate response, but here's a story which may or
may not be relevant.

At one point, there was a transient DNS issue affecting reverse lookups
for the server that sends list mail for my production lists. At the
same time, att.net started blocking our server causing all mail to
that domain to bounce. I tried contacting att.net following their
procedures and never got a reply (over a couple of months or more). I
also urged the att.net list members to contact att.net via their
customer support channels. Some did and got some 'we'll refer this to
engineering' type of reply.

Meanwhile, I kept reenabling the bounce disables. Finally, I decided to
let it rest for a week or more, and then when I reenabled delivery,
the block was gone.

Now this may well be a coincidence, but it is also possible that
att.net had a DNS reverse lookup error at the beginning and blocked
the IP. Then each subsequent mail found a 'cached' block and was
itself blocked and also updated the cache expiration. When I stopped
sending for over a week, the cached entry finally expired. This is
conjecture and may not be correct, but I think it is not necessarily a
good idea to keep reenabling bounces like this.


>On another note, I'd like to be able to get a list of all the subscribers
>with comcast.net addresses, so I can write to them off-list.  I'd settle for
>a list of all subscribers, which I can then filter with grep.  But I don't
>see any way to get a full list, other than by asking the host site
>administrators nicely, and hoping for the best.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>
for links to scripts that can scrape the admin interface for
membership. In particular, my updated version of Jim Tittsler's
mailman-subscribers.py script can obtain essentially all the admin
Membership List info in a flat file that can be grepped to obtain all
members in a particular domain or all bounce disabled members, etc.
There is also a script on Jim's linked page that can reset the
'hidden' flag for a list of members. This could be easily modified to
enable delivery instead.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct  4 18:13:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 09:13:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie comments/questions
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610040829150171318b81da@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610040913270281318b8254@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>In any case, the '^' was not the
>critical change to your pattern; it is changing '\s' to '\s*' (which
>will also allow '\r' at the end that is critical.


Just to be sure there's no misunderstanding, the above should have said

In any case, the '^' was not the
critical change to your pattern; it is changing '\s' to '\s*' (which
will also allow '\r' at the end) that is critical.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct  4 18:29:07 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 09:29:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] X-SPAM-FILTER problems
In-Reply-To: <4523B3E7.4050609@cs.ucc.ie>
Message-ID: <PC17602006100409290704067382effd@msapiro>

martin moriarty wrote:

>We run Mailman Version 2.1.5. Ive 
>added in spam filter rules/expression: X-SPAM-FLAG:YES . Seems to work 
>for a while, then stops working.


This is a bug in 2.1.5, partially fixed in 2.1.6 and completely fixed
in 2.1.7. See
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1230865&group_id=103&atid=100103>.


The problem is updating any of the other Privacy options... pages,
loses header_filter_rules.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct  4 18:41:17 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 09:41:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages to listname-bounces lost
In-Reply-To: <dff375270610040801w5887968dxa2577ea7a855523b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006100409411706877382f120@msapiro>

K. Clair wrote:
>
>For mail, I have set up virtual domain aliases on our mail servers to
>forward mail to lists at virtual domains to the local list aliases on
>the mailman machine, for example:
>listname at domain.com -> listname at mailman.server.com
>listname-bounces at domain.com -> listname-bounces at mailman.server.com
>etc...
>
>When I try to submit a subscribe request via the web interface (which
>happens on the mailman server), I see mail sent to the
>listname-bounces address.


This in itself indicates a problem. When you initiate a subscribe from
the web interface, this will result in a subscription confirmation
message sent to the subscribee from the listname-request address with
envelope from the listname-bounces address. If mail is coming to the
listname-bounces address, this seems to say the confirmation bounced,
and if the bounce is recognized by mailman but is for a non-member, it
is ignored.

So the issue seems to be that the confirmation is bouncing and not with
delivery to the -bounces address.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kclair at gmail.com  Wed Oct  4 19:06:37 2006
From: kclair at gmail.com (K. Clair)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 12:06:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages to listname-bounces lost
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006100409411706877382f120@msapiro>
References: <dff375270610040801w5887968dxa2577ea7a855523b@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602006100409411706877382f120@msapiro>
Message-ID: <dff375270610041006m21995316g95fefea200043381@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/4/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> K. Clair wrote:
> >
> >For mail, I have set up virtual domain aliases on our mail servers to
> >forward mail to lists at virtual domains to the local list aliases on
> >the mailman machine, for example:
> >listname at domain.com -> listname at mailman.server.com
> >listname-bounces at domain.com -> listname-bounces at mailman.server.com
> >etc...
> >
> >When I try to submit a subscribe request via the web interface (which
> >happens on the mailman server), I see mail sent to the
> >listname-bounces address.
>
>
> This in itself indicates a problem. When you initiate a subscribe from
> the web interface, this will result in a subscription confirmation
> message sent to the subscribee from the listname-request address with
> envelope from the listname-bounces address. If mail is coming to the
> listname-bounces address, this seems to say the confirmation bounced,
> and if the bounce is recognized by mailman but is for a non-member, it
> is ignored.
>
> So the issue seems to be that the confirmation is bouncing and not with
> delivery to the -bounces address.

Oh, ok!  So there was a second problem with my installation, which I
was going to send in a separate email, which seems to be the only real
problem.  Which is that the email addresses in subscribe requests are
being altered as such:
kclair at gmail.com becomes kclair-owner at gmail.com.

I've never seen this behavior in a mailman list before!  I just
recently upgraded to version 2.1.9.  One thing that I did do was copy
the list config files from mailman version 2.1.8 AFTER mailman 2.1.9
was already installed on the new server.  So any updates that might
have been made to the list by the "upgrade" to 2.1.9 werent' made.
Could this be related?

Thanks,
Kristina


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct  4 19:19:51 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 10:19:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages to listname-bounces lost
In-Reply-To: <dff375270610041006m21995316g95fefea200043381@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006100410195105004c6ed267@msapiro>

K. Clair wrote:
>
>Oh, ok!  So there was a second problem with my installation, which I
>was going to send in a separate email, which seems to be the only real
>problem.  Which is that the email addresses in subscribe requests are
>being altered as such:
>kclair at gmail.com becomes kclair-owner at gmail.com.


This will happen to certain administrative messages if General
Options->umbrella_list is set to yes. Could that be it?



>I've never seen this behavior in a mailman list before!  I just
>recently upgraded to version 2.1.9.  One thing that I did do was copy
>the list config files from mailman version 2.1.8 AFTER mailman 2.1.9
>was already installed on the new server.  So any updates that might
>have been made to the list by the "upgrade" to 2.1.9 werent' made.
>Could this be related?


That shouldn't matter. The list config changes that would have been
done by the upgrade script will be done anyway the first time the list
is accessed.

If the issue is the umbrella_list setting, I don't know how it would
have changed, or is this a new list?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From cacities at gmail.com  Wed Oct  4 21:23:04 2006
From: cacities at gmail.com (The League CA Cities)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 12:23:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New List Permission
Message-ID: <7c7532580610041223h31abc645lc5298974d34b3408@mail.gmail.com>

I am getting permission issues when trying to create a new list. There is no
authentication to prove my access status, any advice?


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct  4 21:54:25 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 12:54:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New List Permission
In-Reply-To: <7c7532580610041223h31abc645lc5298974d34b3408@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061004125425007833192ec7@msapiro>

The League CA Cities wrote:

>I am getting permission issues when trying to create a new list. There is no
>authentication to prove my access status, any advice?


Are you providing "List creator's (authentication) password:" at the
bottom of the list create form? This must be Mailman's "site" password
or the special list creator password both of which are set by the
command line bin/mmsitepass tool.

If this is not the problem, you'll have to be more specific as to what
you are doing and what the response is.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dr-bob at uchicago.edu  Thu Oct  5 01:41:58 2006
From: dr-bob at uchicago.edu (Robert Hsiung)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 18:41:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Threading for integration with message board
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610021221310750fc38b28d@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200610021221310750fc38b28d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p0623096fc149e554303f@[128.135.25.11]>

At 12:21 PM -0700 10/2/06, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Mailman's archives are threaded based on the Message-ID: of one post
>being in either the In-Reply-To: or References: header (or both) of a
>subsequent post.
>
>This is an incomplete solution fo a number of reasons including:
>
>1) Not all MUAs include either a In-Reply-To: or References: header in
>replies.
>
>2) People 'hijack' threads by creating a new post as a reply to a
>previously received post.
>
>3) Replies to posts in 'plain' format digests won't be threaded even if
>they have a proper Subject:.
>
>4) A direct recipient of a post which is delayed in reaching the list
>can post a reply which reaches the list before the original. In this
>case the reply isn't threaded even after the original arrives.

Thanks for all the responses!

#1 could be addressed by embedding, as I described, the message 
number in the original Reply-To: header, because then you could count 
on it being included in the To: header of replies.

#2 isn't a software issue, threads are "hijacked" on message boards, too.

#3 could be addressed by having separate digests for each thread, but 
I know, that could be a lot of digests. IMO, if people didn't want to 
deal with lots of email, the thing to do would be to switch to the 
message board.  :-)

#4 seems like it would be easy to fix, since you know the posts 
belong together and which came first.

OK, I can get my message board to "be a mailing list" as far as 
sending out posts by email to selected members. So I'll probably just 
go with that. But it won't have Mailman's features, which as far as 
user options seem to be:

* ack
* not metoo
* nodupes
* digest
* plain
* language

Is it possible to get Mailman to insert a variable "+detail" in the 
Reply-To headers? If so, I could use my threading system and Mailman 
both...

--

At 12:26 PM +0900 10/3/06, <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:

>I've heard rumors that there's a Perl module on CPAN implementing
>Jamie's algorithm.

Thanks for the tip. In fact, there are two, the latter possibly based 
on the former:

Mail::Thread
Perl implementation of JWZ's mail threading algorithm
Mail-Thread-2.5 - 27 May 2004 - Simon Cozens
http://search.cpan.org/author/SIMON/Mail-Thread-2.5/Thread.pm

Email::Thread
Use JWZ's mail threading algorithm with Email::Simple objects
Email-Thread-0.71 - 21 Jul 2006 - Ricardo SIGNES
http://search.cpan.org/author/RJBS/Email-Thread-0.71/lib/Email/Thread.pm

I'm not sure how I'd use them to maintain threading in an ongoing 
way, however. I can feed them a bunch of messages and they can thread 
them, but I don't think I'd want to redo that every time a new 
message came in...

--

At 3:49 PM +0100 10/3/06, Tim Walter wrote:

>If it is of help I use MM and a Fusetalk forum that integrates both 
>directions, relatively easy to set up.  I heard reports of another 
>BB that works, I seem to recall it was fudforum, might be worth 
>looking up.

At 11:19 PM -0400 10/3/06, Jeff Donsbach wrote:

>Mail2Forum might give you a good start -
>
>http://sourceforge.net/projects/m2f/

Thanks, but I don't think I want to switch to a different forum 
(Mail2Forum seems to work with only phpBB, at least right now)...

Bob


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Oct  5 04:06:23 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 11:06:23 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re-enabling users who exceed the bouncethreshold
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006100409051800468c6d3f40@msapiro>
References: <8d633bfe0610040802r68dbdb89o198791e634e2808e@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602006100409051800468c6d3f40@msapiro>
Message-ID: <17700.26783.558970.727428@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > Then each subsequent mail found a 'cached' block and was itself
 > blocked and also updated the cache expiration. When I stopped
 > sending for over a week, the cached entry finally expired.

This would be a serious violation of cache semantics, though.  If the
bug occurred at the DNS level, AT&T would have been in a world of pain.

I agree with your conclusion, though.  Systematically banging on a
closed door is unlikely to get sympathy, no matter how wrongheaded the
closed-door policy is.  I would consider it a violation of the rights
of the system's owner (eg, a theft of service).  Of course the owner
has obligations to his customers, but a mailing list has no standing
to enforce them.

That's a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I bet many of these systems'
maintainers feel just about that way.

Steve




From md6969 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  5 07:50:50 2006
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 06:50:50 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Another puzzler
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c14907932ee9@[10.3.1.124]>
References: <4523534E.5090005@gmail.com> <p06240502c14907932ee9@[10.3.1.124]>
Message-ID: <45249D3A.7000908@gmail.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 7:23 AM +0100 10/4/06, Martin Dennett wrote:
>
>>  There is no other information in the bounce message, so how do I
>>  find out who the message is really trying to be delivered to?
>
> This kind of problem is what VERP was designed to make much easier to 
> detect.  Check the relevant FAQ entries on this subject, and keep in 
> mind that this may require a level of access to your Mailman server 
> that you may not have.
>
Will check the FAQ's, but you're correct about my server access :-(

MD


From mm7 at cs.ucc.ie  Thu Oct  5 09:16:16 2006
From: mm7 at cs.ucc.ie (martin moriarty)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 08:16:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] X-SPAM-FILTER problems
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006100409290704067382effd@msapiro>
References: <PC17602006100409290704067382effd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4524B140.5090108@cs.ucc.ie>

Excellent thanks, I'll upgrade and check it out.
Mark Sapiro wrote:

>martin moriarty wrote:
>
>  
>
>>We run Mailman Version 2.1.5. Ive 
>>added in spam filter rules/expression: X-SPAM-FLAG:YES . Seems to work 
>>for a while, then stops working.
>>    
>>
>
>
>This is a bug in 2.1.5, partially fixed in 2.1.6 and completely fixed
>in 2.1.7. See
><http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1230865&group_id=103&atid=100103>.
>
>
>The problem is updating any of the other Privacy options... pages,
>loses header_filter_rules.
>
>  
>



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Oct  5 09:18:05 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 00:18:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re-enabling users who exceed the bouncethreshold
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006100409051800468c6d3f40@msapiro>
References: <PC17602006100409051800468c6d3f40@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240502c14a5d4cd216@[10.3.1.124]>

At 9:05 AM -0700 10/4/06, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  Now this may well be a coincidence, but it is also possible that
>  att.net had a DNS reverse lookup error at the beginning and blocked
>  the IP. Then each subsequent mail found a 'cached' block and was
>  itself blocked and also updated the cache expiration. When I stopped
>  sending for over a week, the cached entry finally expired. This is
>  conjecture and may not be correct, but I think it is not necessarily a
>  good idea to keep reenabling bounces like this.

There are plenty of places out there that run seriously screwed-up 
nameservers, and cache data in direct violation of the TTLs specified 
on the records, or do various other strange things.

It's also possible that you were running afoul of a firewall/network 
abuse rule, and by continually re-enabling those users you kept 
tripping that rule -- and resetting whatever auto-timeout they may 
have put on it.  By letting those users sit for a while, the rule 
ended up getting dropped and then when you re-enabled them later, you 
no longer had this problem.  I've seen automated network intrusion 
detection systems do this sort of thing.


One thing in common with both of these explanations is that the 
larger the recipient site, the more likely they are to be doing 
strange and bizarre things behind the scenes in order to deal with a 
wide variety of problems that you will probably never even have heard 
of, and when they do those kinds of things they are much more likely 
to have strange and bizarre side-effects -- which they frequently 
won't even know about themselves, and even if they do know about them 
they will almost certainly never discuss them with any outside party.


Cisco PIX firewalls used to break the SMTP protocol by default, when 
you enabled their SMTP proxy implementation.  People would do this to 
try to gain a measure of security-through-obscurity, but all that 
would really do is tell the whole world that their clueless 
mail/firewall administrators don't care about breaking SMTP e-mail to 
the world, and that they're using piss-poor Cisco PIX firewall crap 
to do it.  But they would never admit anything about what they were 
doing, and would violently refuse to accept any blame for any mail 
breakage problems that they caused.

Strangely enough, once someone pointed them at the specific piece of 
the Cisco documentation that showed precisely what they were doing 
wrong with precisely which stupid piece of equipment and then how to 
fix that damn configuration problem, things would mysteriously start 
working again -- but again without any kind of acknowledgement as to 
what idiot had broken the thing or why it had taken them so long to 
fix the thing that we all knew that they had broken (and how they had 
broken it).

Cisco PIX firewalls can still break SMTP e-mail in this way, but at 
least they're not configured to do so by default, out-of-the-box.


And you still get plenty of idiots in this world that set things up 
and then refuse to accept blame or even acknowledge that they could 
possibly have caused any portion of the problem they are experiencing.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Oct  5 09:17:58 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 00:17:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Threading for integration with message board
In-Reply-To: <p0623096fc149e554303f@[128.135.25.11]>
References: <PC1760200610021221310750fc38b28d@msapiro>
	<p0623096fc149e554303f@[128.135.25.11]>
Message-ID: <p06240503c14a6016797c@[10.3.1.124]>

At 6:41 PM -0500 10/4/06, Robert Hsiung wrote:

>  #1 could be addressed by embedding, as I described, the message
>  number in the original Reply-To: header, because then you could count
>  on it being included in the To: header of replies.

No, because the "Reply-to:" header has to contain an e-mail address 
and not a message number, so you can't go off and just change the 
format of that header without breaking every other mail program on 
the planet.

Moreover, when the mailing list is sending out the cooked version of 
the message, it has no idea what message number will have been 
assigned to that message by the archiving system.  It would know the 
value of the message-id header, but as we've said before, this 
doesn't always do us any good.

>  #4 seems like it would be easy to fix, since you know the posts
>  belong together and which came first.

That would require potentially re-parsing and modifying every single 
message in the archive, every time a new message comes into the list. 
The ramifications of having to go back and re-parse and modify a 
potentially never-ending string of previous messages in the list just 
because some new message came in on a thread three years after the 
previous message, is just ... mind boggling.

You can't properly fix #4 until the entire archive is implemented 
exclusively as a real database, and the display of the archive is 
always generated on-the-fly.  This is what mail and news clients 
effectively do when they use Jamie's algorithm, and this is what the 
archive server would also have to do.

In particular, this would mean that you could not pre-generate the 
cooked HTML version of an archive message, and message numbers in an 
archive could change whenever some new message comes into the archive 
in an earlier thread.  Not having persistent message numbers would 
break the ability to post links to specific archive messages on the 
list, because tomorrow there might be a different message with that 
number.

You can resolve the latter issue by getting away from message numbers 
entirely and going with a scheme based on the originating message-id 
header, but you'd have to add some additional intelligence to handle 
the potential problem of message-id collisions, etc....


So, there's lots of work here that needs to be done to fix the 
archiving system, yes.

>  Is it possible to get Mailman to insert a variable "+detail" in the
>  Reply-To headers? If so, I could use my threading system and Mailman
>  both...

I'm sure you could write such a module, yes.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Oct  5 09:19:30 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 00:19:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re-enabling users who exceed the bouncethreshold
In-Reply-To: <17700.26783.558970.727428@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <8d633bfe0610040802r68dbdb89o198791e634e2808e@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602006100409051800468c6d3f40@msapiro>
	<17700.26783.558970.727428@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240504c14a6233f856@[10.57.23.171]>

At 11:06 AM +0900 10/5/06, <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:

>  > Then each subsequent mail found a 'cached' block and was itself
>  > blocked and also updated the cache expiration. When I stopped
>  > sending for over a week, the cached entry finally expired.
>
>  This would be a serious violation of cache semantics, though.  If the
>  bug occurred at the DNS level, AT&T would have been in a world of pain.

Yeah, but during the years I was working at AOL, I frequently saw all 
sorts of really bizarre stuff that AT&T was doing, and I would not be 
at all surprised if they actually did exactly what Mark suggested.

There are other ways to explain the same kind of behaviour, but I 
certainly wouldn't put it past them.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From monurergin at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  5 10:32:42 2006
From: monurergin at yahoo.com (M. Onur ERGiN)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 01:32:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and qmail confuse
Message-ID: <20061005083242.21992.qmail@web30305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello,

I am running Mailman and qmail on a RH9 server. Both are running quite good. But in one condition, one of them confuses and mails are not delivered.

I have a user account with name 'ccc' on the server. The mails, which are sent to ccc at myserver can be delivered. But at the same time, I have a Mailman list with name 'ccc-submit' . After openning the 'ccc' account, mail delivery stopped to ccc-submit and I began to receive 'no such mailbox' error. When I remove user 'ccc' mails to 'ccc-submit' can be delivered.

What can cause this confusion, and what can be a possible solution?

Best regards, 
Onur.





From lista at techportal.it  Thu Oct  5 13:54:39 2006
From: lista at techportal.it (Simona)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 13:54:39 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to subscribe an user without his/her
	confirmation?
Message-ID: <4524F27F.1070602@techportal.it>

Hi all,

I'm developing an unified system using PHP that I would like to use to 
manage users' subscriptions to my website, forums and newsletters.

So, I'm asking you if there is a method to subscribe an user account to 
my Mailman lists without his/her confirmation via e-mail (I need to 
manage all confirmation procedures via PHP code...).

Thanks in advance.


From dr-bob at uchicago.edu  Thu Oct  5 14:56:49 2006
From: dr-bob at uchicago.edu (Robert Hsiung)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 07:56:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Threading for integration with message board
In-Reply-To: <p06240503c14a6016797c@[10.3.1.124]>
References: <PC1760200610021221310750fc38b28d@msapiro>
	<p0623096fc149e554303f@[128.135.25.11]>
	<p06240503c14a6016797c@[10.3.1.124]>
Message-ID: <p06230906c14aac6c7072@[128.135.25.11]>

At 12:17 AM -0700 10/5/06, Brad Knowles wrote:

>>  #1 could be addressed by embedding, as I described, the message
>>  number in the original Reply-To: header, because then you could count
>>  on it being included in the To: header of replies.
>
>No, because the "Reply-to:" header has to contain an e-mail address 
>and not a message number

Sorry, "embed" was short for:

>>My other idea is to do it myself, by using the post number of the 
>>post being replied to as the "+detail" part of the reply-to 
>>address. The message board script gives each post a post number. If 
>>it emails out post 123, for example, with a reply-to address of:
>>
>>	list+123 at server
>>
>>and a user replies to that, the sendmail aliases file can pipe it 
>>to the message board script:
>>
>>	list+*: |path-to-script
>>
>>which can then extract the "123" from the [to] header and thread it 
>>after post 123.

So it would be an address containing the number, not just the number.

>>  #4 seems like it would be easy to fix, since you know the posts
>>  belong together and which came first.
>
>That would require potentially re-parsing and modifying every single 
>message in the archive, every time a new message comes into the list.

Why would it imply that? The message comes in, you determine which 
thread it belongs to, and all you have to do is (1) go back in that 
thread until you reach the point where it belongs, which would just 
involve re-parsing those messages, and (2) insert it there, which 
would involve linking the previous message to it and linking it to 
the next message, or modifying two messages.

>In particular, this would mean that ... message numbers in an 
>archive could change whenever some new message comes into the 
>archive in an earlier thread.  Not having persistent message numbers 
>would break the ability to post links to specific archive messages 
>on the list, because tomorrow there might be a different message 
>with that number.

No, the message numbers could stay the same, they might just not stay 
in the same order. If you start with 1 -> 2 -> 3 and 4 comes in late, 
it would become 1 -> 4 -> 2 -> 3. Or whatever. Or am I missing 
something?

Bob


From esknight at samford.edu  Thu Oct  5 15:13:36 2006
From: esknight at samford.edu (Knight, Eric Sean)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 08:13:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing message to large moderation email
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2879.1160005322.10490.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <821AB4E5068CAB43A2539D4DD81F38E3E46437@SAMFORDMAIL.ad.samford.edu>

We are going to start limiting the size some of our internal mailing
lists and would like to customize the message that is sent to the poster
to include the number of our helpdesk if their message is to large.
Where is this text stored? 




From kclair at gmail.com  Thu Oct  5 16:35:05 2006
From: kclair at gmail.com (K. Clair)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 09:35:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to subscribe an user without his/her
	confirmation?
In-Reply-To: <4524F27F.1070602@techportal.it>
References: <4524F27F.1070602@techportal.it>
Message-ID: <dff375270610050735i11ac621el9ad368b34b694e37@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/5/06, Simona <lista at techportal.it> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm developing an unified system using PHP that I would like to use to
> manage users' subscriptions to my website, forums and newsletters.
>
> So, I'm asking you if there is a method to subscribe an user account to
> my Mailman lists without his/her confirmation via e-mail (I need to
> manage all confirmation procedures via PHP code...).

Hi,

The only way I have ever found to do this is to use the mailman
command line command "add_members".  This usually isn't really an
option from a web script because of permissions issues.

If you don't have access to the mailman bin directory on the server, I
don't know of a way to subscribe addresses without their confirmation,
other than using the mass subscribe form in the list admin interface
(but that would be difficult to use from php).

Kristina


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct  5 16:35:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 07:35:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to subscribe an user without
	his/herconfirmation?
In-Reply-To: <4524F27F.1070602@techportal.it>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610050735270188c6b95ed7@msapiro>

Simona wrote:
>
>I'm developing an unified system using PHP that I would like to use to 
>manage users' subscriptions to my website, forums and newsletters.
>
>So, I'm asking you if there is a method to subscribe an user account to 
>my Mailman lists without his/her confirmation via e-mail (I need to 
>manage all confirmation procedures via PHP code...).


If you have access to the Mailman configuration, you can put

ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = Yes

in mm_cfg.py. Then each list will have an additional choice of 'None'
for subscribe_policy (the default will still be 'Confirm' unless you
change that too).

This may work for you, but 'None' allows all subscription requests to
be effective immediately whether from your PHP code or not.

Otherwise, your PHP code could post the admin mass subscribe form data
via the web, but the drawback here is the list's admin password has to
be available to the PHP code. See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-December/041210.html>
and possibly other posts in the archive.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct  5 16:47:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 07:47:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and qmail confuse
In-Reply-To: <20061005083242.21992.qmail@web30305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610050747400626ef268eda@msapiro>

M. Onur ERGiN wrote:
>
>What can cause this confusion,

Qmail

>and what can be a possible solution?


You would probably be more likely to get a good answer to this from a
list or other support resource devoted to Qmail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct  5 16:54:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 07:54:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing message to large moderation email
In-Reply-To: <821AB4E5068CAB43A2539D4DD81F38E3E46437@SAMFORDMAIL.ad.samford.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602006100507543403910187ec49@msapiro>

Knight, Eric Sean wrote:

>We are going to start limiting the size some of our internal mailing
>lists and would like to customize the message that is sent to the poster
>to include the number of our helpdesk if their message is to large.
>Where is this text stored? 


The English language text is in the definition of the MessageTooBig
class in Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py.

Other languages are in the translations in the messages/ directory.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists at norrbring.se  Thu Oct  5 16:48:40 2006
From: lists at norrbring.se (Anders Norrbring)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 16:48:40 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Postfix on different hosts?
In-Reply-To: <44F5CD9F.9000902@norrbring.se>
References: <44F53EF1.1090802@norrbring.se>		<PC1760200608300732510828efcaeacf@msapiro>	<bdb32ec50608301022t440c5082lb1f05d8a005ccba1@mail.gmail.com>
	<44F5CD9F.9000902@norrbring.se>
Message-ID: <45251B48.1000607@norrbring.se>

Anders Norrbring skrev:
> Eric Howland skrev:
>> On 8/30/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>>> Anders Norrbring wrote:
>>>
>>>> Simple question,
>>>> would it be possible to run mailman on one host, and the Postfix MTA on
>>>> another host?
>>>>
>>>> The reason is that I'm configuring a new in/outgoing server that
>>>> eventually should take over the "old" one, the old should keep the web
>>>> server functionality, so I'd like to split things up.
>>>>
>>>> If it can be done, any hints on how?
>>>
>>> Using a different host for outgoing mail is simple. Just set SMTPHOST
>>> in mm_cfg.py.
>>>
>>> Incoming mail to Mailman is more difficult. This has been discussed
>>> before on this list. See
>>> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.018.htp>
>>> for searching information.

I'm having troubles finding info on this matter.. Probably because 
English isn't my native language, so I guess I just don't get the search 
terms right to get relevant results.

Anyway, more info would be really useful.

Thanks,
Anders.

From jheim at math.wisc.edu  Thu Oct  5 18:29:40 2006
From: jheim at math.wisc.edu (John Heim)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 11:29:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] automatically subscribe
Message-ID: <06f901c6e89b$74e816e0$4ba65c90@vv507j>

I need to write a script to add users to a Mailman list. The trick is that 
the script will not be running on the same machine that Mailman is running 
on.

When I add a user to our system, I need to kick off this script so that if 
the new user is in the faculty group, their email address is automatically 
added to the faculty Mailman list.

I am thinking that I could do this via the email interface. Ie. Generate a 
mail message to faculty-request. That sort of works. The only problem is 
that I need to do it as the list administrator or moderator so that the user 
doesn't get a confirmation message. Essentially, I need it to work as if I 
used add_members. With add_members, the user just gets a message that he has 
been subscribed.



Can I authenticate as list administrator and then subscribe some other email 
address?

This doesn't seem to work:

To: faculty-request at math.wisc.edu
set authenticate <password> address=administrator at math.wisc.edu
subscribe newfaculty at math.wisc.edu



From jrlamar at owu.edu  Thu Oct  5 17:58:53 2006
From: jrlamar at owu.edu (Jason LaMar)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 11:58:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sporadic, fractional non-delivery
Message-ID: <C14AA3FD.1EEC1%jrlamar@owu.edu>

We have an on-campus list with about 1,900 student subscribers that has been
functioning properly for months. Recently, however, an extremely small
percentage of students -- about 1% that we're aware of -- have stopped
getting messages from the list.

Here are some of the specifics ...

1. Mailman and the MTA (Sendmail) both reside on the same well-configured
Red Hat Linux ES server, which serves as our primary on-campus e-mail
server, too.

2. Doing grep on specific account names through all the Mailman logs hasn't
turned up any issues.

3. All impacted students are receiving "normal" (non-Mailman) messages just
fine from the same on-campus domain, which (again) is driven by the same
Sendmail instance.

4. No differences can be found at the Linux account level -- directory
permissions, user configuration, etc. -- between those who are receiving the
messages and those who aren't.

5. The impacted account names have been confirmed to reside in the Mailman
config.pck file and via the Web GUI Membership Management screen with
typical (non-digest) delivery preferences set.

I should note that some of these students are automatically forwarding their
University e-mail to an off-campus account -- like Gmail or Hotmail -- and
obviously that introduces another layer of message filtering. But many of
these students are using on-campus IMAP or POP e-mail resources only, and a
spot check immediately after a message is distributed via Mailman reveals
that they still aren't getting anything from the list.

Any ideas to help our investigation on the Mailman and/or Sendmail side? Is
there some extra verbose logging that could be turned on?



Thanks,

Jason

_________________________

Jason LaMar
Director of Information Services
Ohio Wesleyan University | Delaware, OH 43015
AIM/Yahoo IM: jasonrlamar | MSN/Google Talk: jasonrlamar at gmail.com
Tel: 740-368-3131 | Fax: 740-368-3272 | Web: http://www.owu.edu/




From ki at knifecenter.com  Thu Oct  5 18:51:28 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 12:51:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron gate_news
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006100507543403910187ec49@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C14AB050.39BFD%ki@knifecenter.com>

For some reason, the gate_news cron starting giving this error every 5
minutes:

IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/usr/local/mailman/lists/testlist/config.pck'

To the best of my knowledge, this list does not have a mail/news gateway.

Can someone let me know how I can get rid of this error?



From ki at knifecenter.com  Thu Oct  5 19:34:08 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 13:34:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron gate_news
In-Reply-To: <C14AB050.39BFD%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <C14ABA50.39C24%ki@knifecenter.com>

> For some reason, the gate_news cron starting giving this error every 5
> minutes:
> 
> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
> '/usr/local/mailman/lists/testlist/config.pck'
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, this list does not have a mail/news gateway.
> 
> Can someone let me know how I can get rid of this error?

Found out what the problem was. The permissions were incorrect. Did a chown
on the config.pck file and it worked!



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct  5 19:47:02 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 10:47:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sporadic, fractional non-delivery
In-Reply-To: <C14AA3FD.1EEC1%jrlamar@owu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610051047020094752c05c0@msapiro>

Jason LaMar wrote:

>We have an on-campus list with about 1,900 student subscribers that has been
>functioning properly for months. Recently, however, an extremely small
>percentage of students -- about 1% that we're aware of -- have stopped
>getting messages from the list.


The same students for each message?


>5. The impacted account names have been confirmed to reside in the Mailman
>config.pck file and via the Web GUI Membership Management screen with
>typical (non-digest) delivery preferences set.
>
>I should note that some of these students are automatically forwarding their
>University e-mail to an off-campus account -- like Gmail or Hotmail -- and
>obviously that introduces another layer of message filtering. But many of
>these students are using on-campus IMAP or POP e-mail resources only, and a
>spot check immediately after a message is distributed via Mailman reveals
>that they still aren't getting anything from the list.


How is this 'spot check' being done?


>Any ideas to help our investigation on the Mailman and/or Sendmail side? Is
>there some extra verbose logging that could be turned on?


It's pretty unlikely that this is a Mailman issue, but you can check
this by looking at Mailman's 'smtp' log. It will have an entry like

Oct 05 10:33:45 2006 (1570) <message-id> smtp for 170 recips, completed
in 4.645 seconds

The message should be delivered to nnn recips (170 in the above
example) where nnn is the number of message mode members with delivery
enabled less the poster if the poster doesn't receive her own posts
and less the number of members explicitly mentioned in To: or Cc: that
have the 'avoid dups' option.

If this number is as expected, then SMTPDirect delivered the message to
the MTA for all the expected recipients. You can also check Mailman's
'smtp-failure' log to see if any problems were reported to Mailman
during SMTP.

If the number of recips is short the number of missing deliveries, it
is a Mailman issue and we need to figure why Mailman is dropping
these, but I suspect from your analysis so far, that this isn't it.

If Mailman delivered to the expected number, then check the MTA's logs
because the problem is almost certainly in the MTA or outbound from
there.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Oct  5 20:05:31 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 11:05:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Threading for integration with message board
In-Reply-To: <p06230906c14aac6c7072@[128.135.25.11]>
References: <PC1760200610021221310750fc38b28d@msapiro>
	<p0623096fc149e554303f@[128.135.25.11]>
	<p06240503c14a6016797c@[10.3.1.124]>
	<p06230906c14aac6c7072@[128.135.25.11]>
Message-ID: <p06240500c14af8435ade@[10.57.23.171]>

At 7:56 AM -0500 10/5/06, Robert Hsiung wrote:

>>  That would require potentially re-parsing and modifying every
>>  single message in the archive, every time a new message comes
>>  into the list.
>
>  Why would it imply that? The message comes in, you determine
>  which thread it belongs to, and all you have to do is (1) go
>  back in that thread until you reach the point where it belongs,

Right, but a new message can come into a thread at any time in the 
future, potentially years in the future.  You'll have to change the 
"next" and "previous" links in the affected pre-generated HTML files 
(for each of the different types of sorting, including date, thread, 
and subject), plus the associated indexes.

And then all links which people have put into their messages will 
break, if the archives ever have to be re-generated.

>  which would just involve re-parsing those messages, and (2)
>  insert it there, which would involve linking the previous
>  message to it and linking it to the next message, or
>  modifying two messages.

Take a look at the code.  Understand what it actually does.  This 
process is not nearly so straightforward as you think.


Yes, in theory everything is trivially simple.  I mean, Jamie's 
algorithm has a pretty short description, right?

In practice, things get a lot thornier.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct  5 20:19:04 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 11:19:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] automatically subscribe
In-Reply-To: <06f901c6e89b$74e816e0$4ba65c90@vv507j>
Message-ID: <PC17602006100511190402351eb6570f@msapiro>

John Heim wrote:
>
>I am thinking that I could do this via the email interface. Ie. Generate a 
>mail message to faculty-request. That sort of works. The only problem is 
>that I need to do it as the list administrator or moderator so that the user 
>doesn't get a confirmation message. Essentially, I need it to work as if I 
>used add_members. With add_members, the user just gets a message that he has 
>been subscribed.
>
>
>
>Can I authenticate as list administrator and then subscribe some other email 
>address?


There are two reasons why this doesn't work.

1) 'set authenticate' is only effective for subsequent 'set' commands.

2) even if you use the list admin password and the list owners email
address in address=, you are still authenticating the 'member', not
the 'owner' (in fact, you'll get an error if the owner isn't a member).

For a different approach see
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-October/053679.html>
and the other post to which it refers.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From douglasdenny at gmail.com  Thu Oct  5 20:49:12 2006
From: douglasdenny at gmail.com (Douglas Denny)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 15:49:12 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making Archives password protected
Message-ID: <8ba9e8480610051149p361f3149rf320468d8f3e0488@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I am list administrator on a Mailman list. Users have asked me to
password protect the archives. I cannot find this option in my list
interface. This option does not seem to do anything:
I
s archive file source for public or private archival? * private

I am using version 2.1.7. Can someone tell me how to make the archives
only viewable by list subscribers?

-Doug


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  5 20:57:16 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 14:57:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making Archives password protected
In-Reply-To: <8ba9e8480610051149p361f3149rf320468d8f3e0488@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8ba9e8480610051149p361f3149rf320468d8f3e0488@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1160074636.22168.25.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 15:49 -0300, Douglas Denny wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am list administrator on a Mailman list. Users have asked me to
> password protect the archives. I cannot find this option in my list
> interface. This option does not seem to do anything:
> I
> s archive file source for public or private archival? * private

That option works for me and my lists.

> I am using version 2.1.7. Can someone tell me how to make the archives
> only viewable by list subscribers?

I was using v2.1.7, now on v2.1.9, archive_private worked then and works
now.  What does your apache config look like, wrt your paths/redirects
associated with the mailman archive directory structure?

-Jim P.







From dr-bob at uchicago.edu  Thu Oct  5 20:57:55 2006
From: dr-bob at uchicago.edu (Robert Hsiung)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 13:57:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Threading for integration with message board
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c14af8435ade@[10.57.23.171]>
References: <PC1760200610021221310750fc38b28d@msapiro>
	<p0623096fc149e554303f@[128.135.25.11]>
	<p06240503c14a6016797c@[10.3.1.124]>
	<p06230906c14aac6c7072@[128.135.25.11]>
	<p06240500c14af8435ade@[10.57.23.171]>
Message-ID: <p06230920c14b013f51f3@[128.135.25.11]>

At 11:05 AM -0700 10/5/06, Brad Knowles wrote:

>>>  That would require potentially re-parsing and modifying every
>>>  single message in the archive, every time a new message comes
>>>  into the list.
>>
>>  Why would it imply that? The message comes in, you determine
>>  which thread it belongs to, and all you have to do is (1) go
>>  back in that thread until you reach the point where it belongs,
>
>Right, but a new message can come into a thread at any time in the 
>future, potentially years in the future.  You'll have to change the 
>"next" and "previous" links in the affected pre-generated HTML files 
>(for each of the different types of sorting, including date, thread, 
>and subject), plus the associated indexes.

OK, that's 6 changed messages for every out-of-order one (+ 3 index 
files). That's still a lot less than "every single message in the 
archive, every time".

>And then all links which people have put into their messages will 
>break, if the archives ever have to be re-generated.

Wouldn't that depend on how and why they're regenerated? If it's just 
to add messages, then the same process could be followed, 6 old files 
would be changed for each new file, and all the old files could keep 
their message numbers.

>>  which would just involve re-parsing those messages, and (2)
>>  insert it there, which would involve linking the previous
>>  message to it and linking it to the next message, or
>>  modifying two messages.
>
>Take a look at the code.  Understand what it actually does.  This 
>process is not nearly so straightforward as you think.

What code? I didn't have any specific code, or algorithm, in mind. It 
just seemed to me that inserting a message earlier in a thread 
shouldn't be so much more trouble than adding it at the end. As I 
said before, it's just:

	1 -> 4 -> 2 -> 3

instead of:

	1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4

If it's more complicated than that, then there's something I'm not 
understanding, and I'd appreciate it if you'd explain. Thanks,

Bob


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct  5 22:16:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 13:16:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making Archives password protected
In-Reply-To: <8ba9e8480610051149p361f3149rf320468d8f3e0488@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610051316100423680b6231@msapiro>

Douglas Denny wrote:
>
>I am list administrator on a Mailman list. Users have asked me to
>password protect the archives. I cannot find this option in my list
>interface. This option does not seem to do anything:
>I
>s archive file source for public or private archival? * private


This setting should do it. It should cause the
archives/public/<listname> symlink to be removed so the 'pipermail'
URL no longer works and access is through the private CGI only.

If you 'tested' by visiting the archive immediately after changeing the
option, you were already logged in as the admin so you didn't have to
log in again.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From forrest at ce.berkeley.edu  Thu Oct  5 22:53:00 2006
From: forrest at ce.berkeley.edu (Jon Forrest)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 13:53:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs. Email Aliases
Message-ID: <452570AC.5020405@ce.berkeley.edu>

I'm a new Mailman user. So far things are working OK.

I just discovered a wrinkle that I suspect that other
mailmen and mailwomen have faced.

I follow good Sendmail/Postfix practice by breaking
my email aliases file into two sections - one where
I define a canonical email name for each person, and
the other where I define my email lists (which will
be replaced by Mailman-managed lists). In my lists
I only use the canonical name so that if somebody's
email address changes, I only have to change one thing
and then everything else works.

To show what I mean, I'll have something like this:

	smith:		smith at gmail.com

	list1:		smith
	list2:		smith
	list3:		smith

So when smith moves to yahoo.com, I only have to
change the first line.

However, I'm deliberately setting up each Mailman list
to only allow posting from members of the list. This means
that the technique above won't work because if I put
the canonical name in as the list member, any mail send
to the list by smith at gmail.com will be rejected. Using
smith at gmail.com in all the lists goes against the teachings
of Sendmail/Postfix, which are righteous. I don't currently
see any way around this.

What would be nice would be if there were a way to point Mailman
to the Sendmail/Postfix aliases file and then change the Mailman
check for list membership to do alias expansion.

I checked the FAQ but didn't see any mention of this. What am I
missing?

Cordially,
-- 
Jon Forrest
forrest at ce.berkeley.edu
Computer Resources Manager
Civil and Environmental Engineering Dept.
305 Davis Hall
Univ. of Calif., Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720-1710
510-642-0904



From Jimmy.do at omicron-lab.com  Thu Oct  5 23:52:28 2006
From: Jimmy.do at omicron-lab.com (Jimmy.do at omicron-lab.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 16:52:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] %variable for fullname in verify.txt
Message-ID: <249DE599979CD84683A1C3D94FBD52BB39F655@farquaad.us.omicron.at>

Hi all, We are trying to customize the verify.txt which is used in the Email
subscription confirmation to the user.  We would like to personalize it by
adding the user's fullname when they registered.  What is the %variable for
the user's fullname we can use in the verify.txt file?  Since the user's
fullname is optional on the registration form so may be blank, does the
verify.txt file support some type of conditional code so only display the
user's fullname when it is not blank?

Thank you in advance for any suggestion.

Sincerly,
Jimmy



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct  6 02:23:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 17:23:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] %variable for fullname in verify.txt
In-Reply-To: <249DE599979CD84683A1C3D94FBD52BB39F655@farquaad.us.omicron.at>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610051723440360b011aff4@msapiro>

Jimmy wrote:

>Hi all, We are trying to customize the verify.txt which is used in the Email
>subscription confirmation to the user.  We would like to personalize it by
>adding the user's fullname when they registered.  What is the %variable for
>the user's fullname we can use in the verify.txt file?


There isn't one unless you modify the code in Mailman/MailList.py (2
places - new subscription and address change) to provide one.

In general, the replacement dictionaries are template specific and
contain only the substitutions in the default template.


>Since the user's
>fullname is optional on the registration form so may be blank, does the
>verify.txt file support some type of conditional code so only display the
>user's fullname when it is not blank?


If you implement this, you could do something like what is currently
done with 'remote'. I.e., you define the replacement text to be
perhaps 'Hello <full name>' when <full name> is not empty and '' when
it is empty.

There is no way within the template to say 'some text %(x)s' if x is
non-empty and nothing otherwise.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct  6 03:13:09 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 18:13:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Postfix on different hosts?
In-Reply-To: <45251B48.1000607@norrbring.se>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610051813090251f97343c4@msapiro>

Anders Norrbring wrote:
>
>I'm having troubles finding info on this matter.. Probably because 
>English isn't my native language, so I guess I just don't get the search 
>terms right to get relevant results.

Try the threads starting at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-January/041819.html>
and
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-November/047646.html>

Both of the above were found with
<http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org+inurl%3Amailman+fetchmail>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct  6 03:30:02 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 18:30:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Another puzzler
In-Reply-To: <45249D3A.7000908@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610051830020766b245b160@msapiro>

Martin Dennett wrote:
>Brad Knowles wrote:
>> At 7:23 AM +0100 10/4/06, Martin Dennett wrote:
>>
>>>  There is no other information in the bounce message, so how do I
>>>  find out who the message is really trying to be delivered to?
>>
>> This kind of problem is what VERP was designed to make much easier to 
>> detect.  Check the relevant FAQ entries on this subject, and keep in 
>> mind that this may require a level of access to your Mailman server 
>> that you may not have.
>>
>Will check the FAQ's, but you're correct about my server access :-(


I'm sorry to say that if as you seem to say above, no part of the
original message is quoted in the bounce message and you don't have
the ability to alter the Mailman configuration on the server, the only
thing I can think to do is to directly mail your list members and see
who bounces. You could do a kind of binary search by sending a brief,
apologetic note with Bcc: to half the list. If you get a bounce, the
offending address is in that half. If not, it's in the other half (be
sure you wait long enough). Keep repeating this process until you
narrow it down to one address. Of course, this is tedious for you and
for your non-bouncing members who will receive a number of these
probes, but I don't think there's another way.

You could examine the Received: headers in the bounce message, but I
think these will originate with the unknown server and thus, won't
help you understand how (from where) the message got to that server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct  6 03:45:29 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 18:45:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs. Email Aliases
In-Reply-To: <452570AC.5020405@ce.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610051845290298b011afa7@msapiro>

Jon Forrest wrote:

<snip>
>
>To show what I mean, I'll have something like this:
>
>	smith:		smith at gmail.com
>
>	list1:		smith
>	list2:		smith
>	list3:		smith
>
>So when smith moves to yahoo.com, I only have to
>change the first line.
>
>However, I'm deliberately setting up each Mailman list
>to only allow posting from members of the list. This means
>that the technique above won't work because if I put
>the canonical name in as the list member, any mail send
>to the list by smith at gmail.com will be rejected.


You have a more serious issue to contend with first and that is that
Mailman does not accept email addresses consisting of only a
local-part ('smith' in your above example).



>However, I'm deliberately setting up each Mailman list
>to only allow posting from members of the list. This means
>that the technique above won't work because if I put
>the canonical name in as the list member, any mail send
>to the list by smith at gmail.com will be rejected. Using
>smith at gmail.com in all the lists goes against the teachings
>of Sendmail/Postfix, which are righteous. I don't currently
>see any way around this.


Stop thinking in terms of using MTA aliases to manage your list members
and let Mailman do its job.

Smith can subscribe her gmail address to a number of your Mailman lists
and when she moves to yahoo, she can change her address globally on
all your lists to which she is subscribed by visiting her options page
for a single list and changing her address globally.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From forrest at ce.berkeley.edu  Fri Oct  6 05:16:35 2006
From: forrest at ce.berkeley.edu (Jon Forrest)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 20:16:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs. Email Aliases
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610051845290298b011afa7@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200610051845290298b011afa7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4525CA93.9090208@ce.berkeley.edu>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> 
> You have a more serious issue to contend with first and that is that
> Mailman does not accept email addresses consisting of only a
> local-part ('smith' in your above example).

I didn't know that. I had read the following:

# The "host_name" is the preferred name for email to mailman-related
# addresses on this host, and generally should be the mail host's
# exchanger address, if any.  This setting can be useful for selecting
# among alternative names of a host that has multiple addresses.
host_name = 'ce.berkeley.edu'

so I was expecting this to be used when only a local part appears.

> Stop thinking in terms of using MTA aliases to manage your list members
> and let Mailman do its job.
> 
> Smith can subscribe her gmail address to a number of your Mailman lists
> and when she moves to yahoo, she can change her address globally on
> all your lists to which she is subscribed by visiting her options page
> for a single list and changing her address globally.

Our list members don't use Mailman's web interface. All our lists are 
created by administrative staff. Could a list administrator also
change an address globally?

Jon




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct  6 05:47:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 20:47:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs. Email Aliases
In-Reply-To: <4525CA93.9090208@ce.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610052047360813b245b1b1@msapiro>

Jon Forrest wrote:
>
>I didn't know that. I had read the following:
>
># The "host_name" is the preferred name for email to mailman-related
># addresses on this host, and generally should be the mail host's
># exchanger address, if any.  This setting can be useful for selecting
># among alternative names of a host that has multiple addresses.
>host_name = 'ce.berkeley.edu'
>
>so I was expecting this to be used when only a local part appears.


host_name is used for constructing the list posting address and the
various <listname>-* addresses from the list name.


>Our list members don't use Mailman's web interface. All our lists are 
>created by administrative staff. Could a list administrator also
>change an address globally?


No. Only the Mailman site admin (anyone who has logged on with the site
password) and the individual user can request a global address change.
In addition, regardless of who requests the change and whether or not
it is global, a confirmation request is sent to the new address and
the change must be confirmed.

Individual list owners (logged in with a list admin password) generally
can't request/change information for other lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From md6969 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  6 08:39:32 2006
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 07:39:32 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Another puzzler
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610051830020766b245b160@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200610051830020766b245b160@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4525FA24.7040803@gmail.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Martin Dennett wrote:
>   
>> Brad Knowles wrote:
>>     
>>> At 7:23 AM +0100 10/4/06, Martin Dennett wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>>  There is no other information in the bounce message, so how do I
>>>>  find out who the message is really trying to be delivered to?
>>>>         
>>> This kind of problem is what VERP was designed to make much easier to 
>>> detect.  Check the relevant FAQ entries on this subject, and keep in 
>>> mind that this may require a level of access to your Mailman server 
>>> that you may not have.
>>>
>>>       
>> Will check the FAQ's, but you're correct about my server access :-(
>>     
>
>
> I'm sorry to say that if as you seem to say above, no part of the
> original message is quoted in the bounce message and you don't have
> the ability to alter the Mailman configuration on the server, the only
> thing I can think to do is to directly mail your list members and see
> who bounces. You could do a kind of binary search by sending a brief,
> apologetic note with Bcc: to half the list. If you get a bounce, the
> offending address is in that half. If not, it's in the other half (be
> sure you wait long enough). Keep repeating this process until you
> narrow it down to one address. Of course, this is tedious for you and
> for your non-bouncing members who will receive a number of these
> probes, but I don't think there's another way.
>
> You could examine the Received: headers in the bounce message, but I
> think these will originate with the unknown server and thus, won't
> help you understand how (from where) the message got to that server.
By a process of elimination, examining all the header lines and my 
geographical knowledge (the bouncing address was a college with a county 
name in it - all I had to do was look for an address with a town in that 
county; not easy with 1500 addresses to scan), I've found the address 
that's causing the problem. I've now removed it from the list, and will 
wait and see what happens if the guy suddenly realises he's no longer 
receiving mail ;-)

Thanks for all the help as usual!

MD


From cputtick at gmail.com  Fri Oct  6 15:05:58 2006
From: cputtick at gmail.com (Chris Puttick)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 14:05:58 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing site domain name
In-Reply-To: <388f7e1a0610060559g2d73da8y408e7d46fef418af@mail.gmail.com>
References: <388f7e1a0610060559g2d73da8y408e7d46fef418af@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <388f7e1a0610060605k4aeb0417rc6297444ae0555ca@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

Now I know this will sound like a "didn't read the archives" and/or
"didn't read the FAQ" but I did and no solution suggested for similar
problems worked. In particular

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp

does not fix the problem:

Mailman has been installed on a dedicated clean built box. All lists
correctly refer to the actual FQDN of the server in both web and mail
addresses and the list server is functional in most respects. However
the root/master/? (a better name escapes me but "default" iseems
inappropriate, given it is a correctly configured variable) domain of
the installation is stubbornly remaining as the IP address of the
machine. I wouldn't mind so much, except the machine is in a DMZ and
has a non-routeable IP...

All suggestions (other than the entries in the FAQ I've already read
and tried ;-) ) welcome.

Cheers

Chris


-- 

http://thehumanjourney.net


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Oct  6 16:22:25 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 09:22:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing site domain name
In-Reply-To: <388f7e1a0610060605k4aeb0417rc6297444ae0555ca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <388f7e1a0610060559g2d73da8y408e7d46fef418af@mail.gmail.com>
	<388f7e1a0610060605k4aeb0417rc6297444ae0555ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240502c14c169c9de1@[10.0.1.11]>

At 2:05 PM +0100 10/6/06, Chris Puttick wrote:

>                                                                However
>  the root/master/? (a better name escapes me but "default" iseems
>  inappropriate, given it is a correctly configured variable) domain of
>  the installation is stubbornly remaining as the IP address of the
>  machine.

Where are you seeing this issue?  Is it in the URLs that the users 
visit when they go to the web pages for the list?  Is it in the 
e-mail addresses that the users see when the messages are delivered?

>           I wouldn't mind so much, except the machine is in a DMZ and
>  has a non-routeable IP...

If it's a non-routeable IP address, I don't see how anyone is getting 
to the web pages or getting e-mail to/from the box.  But either way, 
I would not be at all surprised if this was the problem.  Well, this 
and reverse DNS obviously being broken.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From cputtick at gmail.com  Fri Oct  6 16:45:30 2006
From: cputtick at gmail.com (Chris Puttick)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 15:45:30 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing site domain name
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c14c169c9de1@10.0.1.11>
References: <388f7e1a0610060559g2d73da8y408e7d46fef418af@mail.gmail.com>
	<388f7e1a0610060605k4aeb0417rc6297444ae0555ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240502c14c169c9de1@10.0.1.11>
Message-ID: <388f7e1a0610060745q711e1000s5071ce05a45d61c7@mail.gmail.com>

Non-routeable as in private address behinded a NATed proxying
firewall; the problem is seen if you go to any of the generic pages
e.g. lists.my.tld/mailman/listinfo, where the server instead of
referring to itself as lists.my.tld refers to itself as ip.ad.dr.ess -
if you go to a list specific page the URLs are as expected, except the
link for the overview page, which reads correctly as
lists.my.tld/mailman/listinfo but links to
ip.ad.dr.ess/mailman/listinfo.

URLs are also as expected in emails, as are email addresses. Like I
say, the list server functions properly, except for this insistence of
using the IP address in the base URLs.

Chris

On 06/10/06, Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:
> At 2:05 PM +0100 10/6/06, Chris Puttick wrote:
>
> >                                                                However
> >  the root/master/? (a better name escapes me but "default" iseems
> >  inappropriate, given it is a correctly configured variable) domain of
> >  the installation is stubbornly remaining as the IP address of the
> >  machine.
>
> Where are you seeing this issue?  Is it in the URLs that the users
> visit when they go to the web pages for the list?  Is it in the
> e-mail addresses that the users see when the messages are delivered?
>
> >           I wouldn't mind so much, except the machine is in a DMZ and
> >  has a non-routeable IP...
>
> If it's a non-routeable IP address, I don't see how anyone is getting
> to the web pages or getting e-mail to/from the box.  But either way,
> I would not be at all surprised if this was the problem.  Well, this
> and reverse DNS obviously being broken.
>
> --
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>      -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>      Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>   Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.
>


-- 

http://thehumanjourney.net


From lists at norrbring.se  Fri Oct  6 17:01:03 2006
From: lists at norrbring.se (Anders Norrbring)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 17:01:03 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Postfix on different hosts?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610051813090251f97343c4@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200610051813090251f97343c4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45266FAF.9050408@norrbring.se>

Mark Sapiro skrev:
> Anders Norrbring wrote:
>> I'm having troubles finding info on this matter.. Probably because 
>> English isn't my native language, so I guess I just don't get the search 
>> terms right to get relevant results.
> 
> Try the threads starting at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-January/041819.html>
> and
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-November/047646.html>
> 
> Both of the above were found with
> <http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org+inurl%3Amailman+fetchmail>.

Thanks Mark,
But I don't feel that fetchmail would be the right way for me...

I'm thinking that maybe I can mount the mailman executable directory 
from the webserver as a NFS share, and then run "as usual".

Would that work?
-- 

Anders Norrbring
Norrbring Consulting

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Oct  6 17:10:42 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 10:10:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Postfix on different hosts?
In-Reply-To: <45266FAF.9050408@norrbring.se>
References: <PC1760200610051813090251f97343c4@msapiro>
	<45266FAF.9050408@norrbring.se>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610060810n37e0999egc1b7e0c74672c728@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/6/06, Anders Norrbring <lists at norrbring.se> wrote:
> Thanks Mark,
> But I don't feel that fetchmail would be the right way for me...
>
> I'm thinking that maybe I can mount the mailman executable directory
> from the webserver as a NFS share, and then run "as usual".
>
> Would that work?

While this is theoretically possible ('all' the mailman executables
need is to be able to access the configuration files and access the
qfiles), you're basically just installing mailman on your mail server,
with extra, needless, layers of complexity.

The best way, really, to do this is to either (a) use fetchmail, or
(b) set up your real mail server to forward the appropriate mail
(i.e., the mailman messages) to the MTA on the mailman machine. (a)
will be simpler, maybe (I've never actually done that.) (b) seems like
a 'better' solution, to me.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct  6 17:15:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 08:15:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing site domain name
In-Reply-To: <388f7e1a0610060745q711e1000s5071ce05a45d61c7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610060815060921efddd95f@msapiro>

Chris Puttick wrote:

>the problem is seen if you go to any of the generic pages
>e.g. lists.my.tld/mailman/listinfo, where the server instead of
>referring to itself as lists.my.tld refers to itself as ip.ad.dr.ess -
>if you go to a list specific page the URLs are as expected, except the
>link for the overview page, which reads correctly as
>lists.my.tld/mailman/listinfo but links to
>ip.ad.dr.ess/mailman/listinfo.


What is your mm_cfg.py setting for DEFAULT_URL_HOST?

Also, check your webserver config. Particularly, that thing which in
apache looks like

RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$   http://example.com/mailman/listinfo

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists at norrbring.se  Fri Oct  6 17:16:55 2006
From: lists at norrbring.se (Anders Norrbring)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 17:16:55 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Postfix on different hosts?
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00610060810n37e0999egc1b7e0c74672c728@mail.gmail.com>
References: <PC1760200610051813090251f97343c4@msapiro>	
	<45266FAF.9050408@norrbring.se>
	<6fbe3da00610060810n37e0999egc1b7e0c74672c728@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45267367.7040005@norrbring.se>

Patrick Bogen skrev:
> On 10/6/06, Anders Norrbring <lists at norrbring.se> wrote:
>> Thanks Mark,
>> But I don't feel that fetchmail would be the right way for me...
>>
>> I'm thinking that maybe I can mount the mailman executable directory
>> from the webserver as a NFS share, and then run "as usual".
>>
>> Would that work?
> 
> While this is theoretically possible ('all' the mailman executables
> need is to be able to access the configuration files and access the
> qfiles), you're basically just installing mailman on your mail server,
> with extra, needless, layers of complexity.
> 
> The best way, really, to do this is to either (a) use fetchmail, or
> (b) set up your real mail server to forward the appropriate mail
> (i.e., the mailman messages) to the MTA on the mailman machine. (a)
> will be simpler, maybe (I've never actually done that.) (b) seems like
> a 'better' solution, to me.
> 


Hmm.. Forwarding should do it I guess.  The goal I'm aiming for is to 
split off all webserver activity from the mail host..
I guess that's clearly doable, I think the only thing would be to set up 
the Postfix on the webserver to use a subdomain for the lists, otherwise 
everything would loop back to the first SMTP. At least in my theory.. :)

-- 

Anders Norrbring
Norrbring Consulting

From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Oct  6 17:12:25 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 10:12:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing site domain name
In-Reply-To: <388f7e1a0610060745q711e1000s5071ce05a45d61c7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <388f7e1a0610060559g2d73da8y408e7d46fef418af@mail.gmail.com>
	<388f7e1a0610060605k4aeb0417rc6297444ae0555ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240502c14c169c9de1@10.0.1.11>
	<388f7e1a0610060745q711e1000s5071ce05a45d61c7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240502c14c227564bc@[10.0.1.11]>

At 3:45 PM +0100 10/6/06, Chris Puttick wrote:

>  URLs are also as expected in emails, as are email addresses. Like I
>  say, the list server functions properly, except for this insistence of
>  using the IP address in the base URLs.

Mark Sapiro, or one of the other core developers, may have a better 
answer for you.  However, I strongly suspect that your problem is a 
result of not having reverse DNS for the IP address behind your 
NAT'ed firewall, so either Mailman or your web server is substituting 
the IP address instead.

Mark?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Oct  6 17:26:47 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 10:26:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Postfix on different hosts?
In-Reply-To: <45266FAF.9050408@norrbring.se>
References: <PC1760200610051813090251f97343c4@msapiro>
	<45266FAF.9050408@norrbring.se>
Message-ID: <p06240503c14c23edbce6@[10.0.1.11]>

At 5:01 PM +0200 10/6/06, Anders Norrbring wrote:

>  I'm thinking that maybe I can mount the mailman executable directory
>  from the webserver as a NFS share, and then run "as usual".

The Mailman developers have done a lot of work to try to make Mailman 
as NFS-safe as possible.  In theory, you should be able to put the 
entire /usr/local/mailman directory on NFS and share that from the 
web server to the mail server, and so long as you properly configure 
both ends that should "just work".


Of course, any time you put content on NFS and you have two different 
servers accessing that content, you have a number of additional 
issues and you have to make sure that NFS is properly configured to 
support that method of use.  In particular, you need to make sure 
that client-side attribute caching is turned off, among other things.

You also need to keep in mind that being dependant on an NFS server 
for this kind of operation will introduce a number of new types of 
failure modes (like everything appears to completely lock up if the 
NFS server goes away), and that unless you're spending a lot of money 
for a pretty high-end NFS server this will reduce your throughput and 
the overall reliability of the system.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From ki at knifecenter.com  Fri Oct  6 18:25:33 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 12:25:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron gate_news
In-Reply-To: <C14ABA50.39C24%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <C14BFBBC.3A323%ki@knifecenter.com>

>> For some reason, the gate_news cron starting giving this error every 5
>> minutes:
>> 
>> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>> '/usr/local/mailman/lists/testlist/config.pck'
>> 
>> To the best of my knowledge, this list does not have a mail/news gateway.
>> 
>> Can someone let me know how I can get rid of this error?
> 
> Found out what the problem was. The permissions were incorrect. Did a chown
> on the config.pck file and it worked!
> 
Scratch the last comment. Apparently, the config.pck and other pck files are
recreated every time the cron runs. The problem is that when this file is
recreated, the permissions are such that mailman cannot modify that file.
For example, my config.pck file for all the lists on my mailman server are
automatically created with permissions with user apache. However, mailman is
not an authorized owner.

What should I do? Should I try and make the config.pck file default to
mailman ownership?



From jwgordon at math.okstate.edu  Fri Oct  6 18:08:14 2006
From: jwgordon at math.okstate.edu (Jack Gordon)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 11:08:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recently updated mailman and it quit working
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAE3daAOgrJVIitPRiLgSl8rCgAAAEAAAAJdwgDHpEFdBiT6uXMylTBIBAAAAAA==@math.okstate.edu>

September 6th, I updated mailman and it quit working.  The file permissions
are all group mailman, but it doesn't send out messages to the private
group.  My postfix maillog looks like this:

 

Oct  6 10:16:00 mail postfix/local[16020]: 03AFA3F84E:
to=<banach at math.okstate.edu>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent (delivered
to command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post banach)

Oct  6 10:18:27 mail postfix/local[16074]: 0DAF23F7F4:
to=<banach at math.okstate.edu>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent (delivered
to command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post banach)

Oct  6 10:18:28 mail postfix/local[16020]: 8C0913F84A:
to=<banach at math.okstate.edu>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent (delivered
to command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post banach)

Oct  6 10:18:34 mail postfix/local[16026]: EFB0F3F876:
to=<banach at math.okstate.edu>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent (delivered
to command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post banach)

Oct  6 10:18:36 mail postfix/local[16105]: B1A813F847:
to=<banach at math.okstate.edu>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent (delivered
to command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post banach)

Oct  6 10:18:41 mail postfix/local[16074]: 896203F7DE:
to=<banach at math.okstate.edu>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent (delivered
to command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post banach)

Oct  6 10:18:43 mail postfix/local[16107]: 28AB73F84E:
to=<banach at math.okstate.edu>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent (delivered
to command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post banach)

Oct  6 10:18:45 mail postfix/local[16074]: C920E3F873:
to=<banach at math.okstate.edu>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent (delivered
to command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post banach)

Oct  6 10:53:16 mail postfix/local[16546]: 9856E3F7F4:
to=<banach-request at math.okstate.edu>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent
(delivered to command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request banach)

Oct  6 10:53:16 mail postfix/local[16672]: 9856E3F7F4:
to=<banach at math.okstate.edu>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent (delivered
to command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post banach)

Oct  6 10:54:07 mail postfix/local[16672]: E00AE3F7F4:
to=<banach-bounces at math.okstate.edu>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent
(delivered to command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces banach)

 

Any hints on where I should look for the problem?

 

Thanks,

 

Jack W. Gordon Jr

Systems Administrator

Math Department

Oklahoma State University

Stillwater, Ok 74078

405 744 5541

 



From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Fri Oct  6 18:38:39 2006
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 18:38:39 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recently updated mailman and it quit working
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAE3daAOgrJVIitPRiLgSl8rCgAAAEAAAAJdwgDHpEFdBiT6uXMylTBIBAAAAAA==@math.okstate.edu>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAE3daAOgrJVIitPRiLgSl8rCgAAAEAAAAJdwgDHpEFdBiT6uXMylTBIBAAAAAA==@math.okstate.edu>
Message-ID: <20061006163839.GD16285@charite.de>

* Jack Gordon <jwgordon at math.okstate.edu>:
> September 6th, I updated mailman and it quit working.  The file permissions
> are all group mailman, but it doesn't send out messages to the private
> group.  My postfix maillog looks like this:
> 
>  
> 
> Oct  6 10:16:00 mail postfix/local[16020]: 03AFA3F84E:
> to=<banach at math.okstate.edu>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent (delivered
> to command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post banach)

Perfect.

> Any hints on where I should look for the problem?

Is mailman's queue runner running?

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                 send no mail to spamtrap at charite.de


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Oct  6 18:40:49 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 11:40:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recently updated mailman and it quit working
In-Reply-To: <20061006163839.GD16285@charite.de>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAE3daAOgrJVIitPRiLgSl8rCgAAAEAAAAJdwgDHpEFdBiT6uXMylTBIBAAAAAA==@math.okstate.edu>
	<20061006163839.GD16285@charite.de>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610060940x10f99b81rdd17c443af84c232@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/6/06, Ralf Hildebrandt <Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de> wrote:
> * Jack Gordon <jwgordon at math.okstate.edu>:
> > Any hints on where I should look for the problem?
>
> Is mailman's queue runner running?

Also, you want to check the mailman logs to see if anything looks bad
there. And, as Ralf said, check the qrunners are running:

ps uax | grep -i qrunner

Should list 8 or so processes.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From cputtick at gmail.com  Fri Oct  6 19:24:14 2006
From: cputtick at gmail.com (Chris Puttick)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 18:24:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing site domain name
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610060815060921efddd95f@msapiro>
References: <388f7e1a0610060745q711e1000s5071ce05a45d61c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200610060815060921efddd95f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <388f7e1a0610061024p6a080fffmffd4e866fe887790@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, the problem:

http://lists.openarchaeology.net/mailman/listinfo

compared with

http://lists.openarchaeology.net/mailman/listinfo/mailman

mm_cfg:

from Defaults import *

##################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
DEFAULT_NNTP_HOST = 'lists.openarchaeology.net'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.openarchaeology.net'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.openarchaeology.net'
MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'
DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
SMTPPORT = '25'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
IMAGE_LOGOS = '/mailmanicons/'

Any thoughts?

Chris


On 06/10/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Chris Puttick wrote:
>
> >the problem is seen if you go to any of the generic pages
> >e.g. lists.my.tld/mailman/listinfo, where the server instead of
> >referring to itself as lists.my.tld refers to itself as ip.ad.dr.ess -
> >if you go to a list specific page the URLs are as expected, except the
> >link for the overview page, which reads correctly as
> >lists.my.tld/mailman/listinfo but links to
> >ip.ad.dr.ess/mailman/listinfo.
>
>
> What is your mm_cfg.py setting for DEFAULT_URL_HOST?
>
> Also, check your webserver config. Particularly, that thing which in
> apache looks like
>
> RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$   http://example.com/mailman/listinfo
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 

http://thehumanjourney.net


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct  6 19:39:13 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 10:39:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron gate_news
In-Reply-To: <C14BFBBC.3A323%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061006103913079651bc16e9@msapiro>

Ki Song wrote:

>Scratch the last comment. Apparently, the config.pck and other pck files are
>recreated every time the cron runs. The problem is that when this file is
>recreated, the permissions are such that mailman cannot modify that file.
>For example, my config.pck file for all the lists on my mailman server are
>automatically created with permissions with user apache. However, mailman is
>not an authorized owner.
>
>What should I do? Should I try and make the config.pck file default to
>mailman ownership?


Mailman's access permissions are based on group, not user. Everything
should be group owned by 'mailman', and the group should have read and
write permission, and the crontab should be installed for user
'mailman' which should be in the 'mailman' group so that the cron jobs
run as group mailman. Whether the user who owns files is mailman or
root or apache or some combination of these and others should be
irrelevant.

See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node9.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct  6 20:10:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 11:10:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing site domain name
In-Reply-To: <388f7e1a0610061024p6a080fffmffd4e866fe887790@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006100611101608758445eafb@msapiro>

Chris Puttick wrote:

>Ok, the problem:
>
>http://lists.openarchaeology.net/mailman/listinfo
>
>compared with
>
>http://lists.openarchaeology.net/mailman/listinfo/mailman
>
>mm_cfg:
>
>from Defaults import *
>
>##################################################
># Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
>DEFAULT_NNTP_HOST = 'lists.openarchaeology.net'
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.openarchaeology.net'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.openarchaeology.net'
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
>POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'
>DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
>SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
>SMTPPORT = '25'
>VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>IMAGE_LOGOS = '/mailmanicons/'
>
>Any thoughts?


I suspect that adding

VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off

to the above will fix the symptom. If it does, the underlying problem
is that your web server is setting HTTP_HOST (or if HTTP_HOST is
unset, SERVER_NAME) to '10.0.10.18' in the environment passed to the
Mailman CGIs.

If that doesn't do it, try the following:

In the Mailman install directory, give the command

bin/withlist -i

Then at the first >>> prompt type

from Mailman import Utils

at the next prompt type

Utils.get_domain()

and see what it prints. Then type control-D to exit.

You can also try setting HTTP_HOST in the environment and then
repeating the above.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct  6 20:19:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 11:19:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recently updated mailman and it quit working
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00610060940x10f99b81rdd17c443af84c232@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061006111928006281a88e3a@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
>On 10/6/06, Ralf Hildebrandt <Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de> wrote:
>> * Jack Gordon <jwgordon at math.okstate.edu>:
>> > Any hints on where I should look for the problem?
>>
>> Is mailman's queue runner running?
>
>Also, you want to check the mailman logs to see if anything looks bad
>there. And, as Ralf said, check the qrunners are running:
>
>ps uax | grep -i qrunner
>
>Should list 8 or so processes.


And see what if anything is in the queues ('ls -lR qfiles/), and see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stupidmail4me at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  6 21:23:46 2006
From: stupidmail4me at yahoo.com (stupidmail4me)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 12:23:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not archiving
Message-ID: <20061006192346.14917.qmail@web30111.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm running Mailman-2.1.8p0 on an OpenBSD 3.9 box. I
have everything set up correctly (I've installed
successfully using older versions on older versions of
OpenBSD) as far as I can see. Mail is sending through
the lists appropriately, but it's not archiving at
all. I've checked Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py and the
list's configuration options and they're all set to
archive. I've checked permissions in
/var/spool/archive/* and they appear to be fine (if I
give _mailman a shell I can create files).

Has anyone successfully installed the package on
OpenBSD or had similar problems? Any ideas will help
as I'm all out of them.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct  6 22:50:02 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 13:50:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <20061006192346.14917.qmail@web30111.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610061350020531c00ab075@msapiro>

stupidmail4me wrote:

>Mail is sending through
>the lists appropriately, but it's not archiving at
>all. I've checked Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py and the
>list's configuration options and they're all set to
>archive. I've checked permissions in
>/var/spool/archive/* and they appear to be fine (if I
>give _mailman a shell I can create files).

Is ArchiveRunner running? Is there anything in Mailman's
qfiles/archive/ directory? Is there anything in Mailman's 'error' log?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ki at knifecenter.com  Fri Oct  6 23:02:14 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 17:02:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron gate_news
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061006103913079651bc16e9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C14C3C96.3A472%ki@knifecenter.com>

> Ki Song wrote:
> 
>> Scratch the last comment. Apparently, the config.pck and other pck files are
>> recreated every time the cron runs. The problem is that when this file is
>> recreated, the permissions are such that mailman cannot modify that file.
>> For example, my config.pck file for all the lists on my mailman server are
>> automatically created with permissions with user apache. However, mailman is
>> not an authorized owner.
>> 
>> What should I do? Should I try and make the config.pck file default to
>> mailman ownership?
> 
> 
> Mailman's access permissions are based on group, not user. Everything
> should be group owned by 'mailman', and the group should have read and
> write permission, and the crontab should be installed for user
> 'mailman' which should be in the 'mailman' group so that the cron jobs
> run as group mailman. Whether the user who owns files is mailman or
> root or apache or some combination of these and others should be
> irrelevant.
> 
> See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node9.html>.
> 
I ran check perms and there were no problems found.

The cron directory within the $prefix directory has several files. All files
are owned by the mailman group.

The lists directory has directories of all the lists that are currently
running on this install. Everything within these directories are part of the
mailman group as well.

What else do I need to check? I am still getting the
Cron <mailman at mail> /usr/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news
 message.




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct  6 23:04:19 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 14:04:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610061350020531c00ab075@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610061404190281c0b7088c@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>Is ArchiveRunner running?

That should be "Is ArchRunner running?". Sorry for any confusion.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct  6 23:30:26 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 14:30:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron gate_news
In-Reply-To: <C14C3C96.3A472%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061006143026029681a88f22@msapiro>

Ki Song wrote:

>I ran check perms and there were no problems found.
>
>What else do I need to check? I am still getting the
>Cron <mailman at mail> /usr/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news
> message.

What happens if you manually run

/usr/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news

as the 'mailman' user?

Where is the crontab that runs this installed?

Is the 'mailman' user a member of the 'mailman' group?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From scott_list at mischko.com  Sat Oct  7 01:12:06 2006
From: scott_list at mischko.com (Scott Chapman)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 16:12:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change email that shows up on summary page?
Message-ID: <4526E2C6.3050405@mischko.com>

http://lists.appliedeco.org/
How to change the email address that shows up in the text:
"If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact
mailman at lists.appliedeco.org." ?

Scott



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct  7 02:49:30 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 17:49:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change email that shows up on summary
	page?
In-Reply-To: <4526E2C6.3050405@mischko.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610061749300843b3ecb1c9@msapiro>

Scott Chapman wrote:

>http://lists.appliedeco.org/
>How to change the email address that shows up in the text:
>"If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact
>mailman at lists.appliedeco.org." ?


In the module Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py in the definition of the
listinfo_overview() function you'll find the following lines:

    # set up some local variables
    adj = msg and _('right') or ''
    siteowner = Utils.get_site_email()
    welcome.extend(


Change the line 

    siteowner = Utils.get_site_email()

to for example

    siteowner = 'someuser at example.com'

However, perhaps a better solution is to just leave it as is and
subscribe the intended recipient to the 'mailman' list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From scott_list at mischko.com  Sat Oct  7 03:38:43 2006
From: scott_list at mischko.com (Scott Chapman)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 18:38:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change email that shows up on summary
 page?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610061749300843b3ecb1c9@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200610061749300843b3ecb1c9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45270523.3090305@mischko.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> However, perhaps a better solution is to just leave it as is and
> subscribe the intended recipient to the 'mailman' list.

I don't follow you here.  You mean mailman at lists.appliedeco.org being the 
intended recipient?

How would this help?

Scott



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct  7 03:43:57 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 18:43:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change email that shows up on
	summarypage?
In-Reply-To: <45270523.3090305@mischko.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006100618435708123c23f485@msapiro>

Scott Chapman wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> However, perhaps a better solution is to just leave it as is and
>> subscribe the intended recipient to the 'mailman' list.
>
>I don't follow you here.  You mean mailman at lists.appliedeco.org being the 
>intended recipient?


I mean instead of changing the code to replace
mailman at lists.appliedeco.org (which is a list) with user at example.com,
just subscribe user at example.com to the mailman at lists.appliedeco.org
list. This is how it is intended to work.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From scott_list at mischko.com  Sat Oct  7 03:51:30 2006
From: scott_list at mischko.com (Scott Chapman)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 18:51:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change email that shows up on
	summarypage?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006100618435708123c23f485@msapiro>
References: <PC17602006100618435708123c23f485@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45270822.6000607@mischko.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Scott Chapman wrote:
> 
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>> However, perhaps a better solution is to just leave it as is and
>>> subscribe the intended recipient to the 'mailman' list.
>> I don't follow you here.  You mean mailman at lists.appliedeco.org being the 
>> intended recipient?
> 
> 
> I mean instead of changing the code to replace
> mailman at lists.appliedeco.org (which is a list) with user at example.com,
> just subscribe user at example.com to the mailman at lists.appliedeco.org
> list. This is how it is intended to work.

Then something else is amiss.  It gives me back this bounce when I try to send 
to the list:

You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has
been automatically rejected.  If you think that your messages are
being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at
mailman-owner at lists.mischko.com.

Scott




From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct  7 04:48:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 19:48:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change email that shows up on
	summarypage?
In-Reply-To: <45270935.20601@mischko.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006100619480302813c23f23c@msapiro>

Scott Chapman wrote:
>
>I found it.  The list is not available to non-members.  How do I make a list 
>be available to anyone?


Set Privacy options...->Sender filters->generic_nonmember_action to
Accept.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From scott_list at mischko.com  Sat Oct  7 03:56:05 2006
From: scott_list at mischko.com (Scott Chapman)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 18:56:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change email that shows up on
	summarypage?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006100618435708123c23f485@msapiro>
References: <PC17602006100618435708123c23f485@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45270935.20601@mischko.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Scott Chapman wrote:
> 
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>> However, perhaps a better solution is to just leave it as is and
>>> subscribe the intended recipient to the 'mailman' list.
>> I don't follow you here.  You mean mailman at lists.appliedeco.org being the 
>> intended recipient?
> 
> 
> I mean instead of changing the code to replace
> mailman at lists.appliedeco.org (which is a list) with user at example.com,
> just subscribe user at example.com to the mailman at lists.appliedeco.org
> list. This is how it is intended to work.

I found it.  The list is not available to non-members.  How do I make a list 
be available to anyone?

Scott




From admin2 at enabled.com  Sat Oct  7 07:21:16 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 22:21:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman no longer working
Message-ID: <4527394C.4030307@enabled.com>

mailman-2.1.9
FreeBSD 4-11
python-2.3.5_1
python-2.4.3


Hi there,

I recently upgraded python and mailman and a bunch of other FreeBSD 
ports.  mailman no longer appears to be forwarding mail.  I can see in 
my sendmail logs that the mail is received and piped to mailman with the 
post command like -  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post <listname>"

but looking at the mailman logs there is nothing that appears in the 
/usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp or /usr/local/mailman/logs/post logs 
relevant to the post

what could be going on here?  How do I troubleshoot this?  It also 
appears that some lists are working and allowing posts and some are not.



cheers,

Noah



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Sat Oct  7 07:32:32 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 00:32:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman no longer working
In-Reply-To: <4527394C.4030307@enabled.com>
References: <4527394C.4030307@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610062232j4e264350q9bec0761409c256f@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/7/06, Noah <admin2 at enabled.com> wrote:
> I recently upgraded python and mailman and a bunch of other FreeBSD
> ports.  mailman no longer appears to be forwarding mail.  I can see in
> my sendmail logs that the mail is received and piped to mailman with the
> post command like -  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post <listname>"
>
> but looking at the mailman logs there is nothing that appears in the
> /usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp or /usr/local/mailman/logs/post logs
> relevant to the post
>

Double check to make sure all of your queue runners are still running
(ps uax | grep -i queue or somesuch). There should be 8, or so.

If they aren't, try:

mailmanctl start

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From admin2 at enabled.com  Sat Oct  7 07:36:38 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 22:36:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman no longer working
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00610062232j4e264350q9bec0761409c256f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4527394C.4030307@enabled.com>
	<6fbe3da00610062232j4e264350q9bec0761409c256f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45273CE6.6070503@enabled.com>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
> On 10/7/06, Noah <admin2 at enabled.com> wrote:
>> I recently upgraded python and mailman and a bunch of other FreeBSD
>> ports.  mailman no longer appears to be forwarding mail.  I can see in
>> my sendmail logs that the mail is received and piped to mailman with the
>> post command like -  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post <listname>"
>>
>> but looking at the mailman logs there is nothing that appears in the
>> /usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp or /usr/local/mailman/logs/post logs
>> relevant to the post
>>
>
> Double check to make sure all of your queue runners are still running
> (ps uax | grep -i queue or somesuch). There should be 8, or so.
>
> If they aren't, try:

yeah they are/were running.  something a little deeper is happening 
here.  Again it is only one mail list at the momment that is not working 
or posting rather.  I can sub and unsub and receive notifications.  but 
the post is an issue right now.

# ps uax | grep -i queue
root        2  0.0  0.0     0    0  ??  DL   18Jun06   0:00.00  (taskqueue)
# ps uaxww | grep -i mailman
mailman 90890  0.6  0.3  8372 7108  ??  S    10:33PM   0:00.26 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 90889  0.6  0.3  8388 7116  ??  S    10:33PM   0:00.27 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 90888  0.6  0.3  8432 7204  ??  S    10:33PM   0:00.27 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 90887  0.8  0.3  8384 7152  ??  S    10:33PM   0:00.32 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 90886  0.6  0.3  8376 7120  ??  S    10:33PM   0:00.27 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 90885  0.6  0.3  8372 7120  ??  S    10:33PM   0:00.27 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 90884  0.7  0.3  8376 7120  ??  S    10:33PM   0:00.27 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 90883  0.8  0.3  8376 7112  ??  S    10:33PM   0:00.30 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 90882  0.0  0.3  8412 7152  ??  Ss   10:33PM   0:00.03 
/usr/local/bin/python ./mailmanctl start


clues?

cheers,

Noah

>
> mailmanctl start
>



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct  7 07:55:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 22:55:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman no longer working
In-Reply-To: <45273CE6.6070503@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061006225534087574e0300d@msapiro>

Noah wrote:
>
>yeah they are/were running.  something a little deeper is happening 
>here.  Again it is only one mail list at the momment that is not working 
>or posting rather.  I can sub and unsub and receive notifications.  but 
>the post is an issue right now.


Where are the messages ('ls -lR /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/')?

What's in Mailman's 'error' log?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From cputtick at gmail.com  Sat Oct  7 08:11:33 2006
From: cputtick at gmail.com (Chris Puttick)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 07:11:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing site domain name
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006100611101608758445eafb@msapiro>
References: <388f7e1a0610061024p6a080fffmffd4e866fe887790@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602006100611101608758445eafb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <388f7e1a0610062311h7563875djaa193c5dec8f8361@mail.gmail.com>

On 06/10/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Chris Puttick wrote:
>
> >Ok, the problem:
> >
> >http://lists.openarchaeology.net/mailman/listinfo
> >
> >compared with
> >
> >http://lists.openarchaeology.net/mailman/listinfo/mailman
> >
> >mm_cfg:
> >
> >from Defaults import *
> >
> >##################################################
> ># Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
> >DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
> >DEFAULT_NNTP_HOST = 'lists.openarchaeology.net'
> >DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.openarchaeology.net'
> >DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.openarchaeology.net'
> >MTA = 'Postfix'
> >POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
> >POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'
> >DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
> >SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
> >SMTPPORT = '25'
> >VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
> >add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> >IMAGE_LOGOS = '/mailmanicons/'
> >
> >Any thoughts?
>
>
> I suspect that adding
>
> VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off
>
> to the above will fix the symptom. If it does, the underlying problem
> is that your web server is setting HTTP_HOST (or if HTTP_HOST is
> unset, SERVER_NAME) to '10.0.10.18' in the environment passed to the
> Mailman CGIs.

Ok, that works. However, AFAICT neither HTTP_HOST nor SERVER_NAME are
explicitly set. Setting what I think is the SuSE 10.1 equivalent,
APACHE_SERVERNAME (in /etc/sysconfig/apache) does not fix the problem,
but does result in Apache generated documents showing
lists.openarchaeology.net as its root:

http://lists.openarchaeology.net/nopagehere

> If that doesn't do it, try the following:
>
> In the Mailman install directory, give the command
>
> bin/withlist -i
>
> Then at the first >>> prompt type
>
> from Mailman import Utils
>
> at the next prompt type
>
> Utils.get_domain()

Interesting. Following these steps gets me:
>>> Utils.get_domain()
'lists.openarchaeology.net'
>>>

Now I'm confused...

I'll use the VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off setting for now as I'm not
assuming this list server will ever be used to hosts lists for
something other than the openarchaeology domain. Happy to try other
fixes in the interest of furthering human knowledge ;-).

> and see what it prints. Then type control-D to exit.
>
> You can also try setting HTTP_HOST in the environment and then
> repeating the above.
>
> --

Cheers

Chris


-- 

http://thehumanjourney.net


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct  7 08:59:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 23:59:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing site domain name
In-Reply-To: <388f7e1a0610062311h7563875djaa193c5dec8f8361@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061006235927006281a88e39@msapiro>

Chris Puttick wrote:

>On 06/10/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>>
>> I suspect that adding
>>
>> VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off
>>
>> to the above will fix the symptom. If it does, the underlying problem
>> is that your web server is setting HTTP_HOST (or if HTTP_HOST is
>> unset, SERVER_NAME) to '10.0.10.18' in the environment passed to the
>> Mailman CGIs.
>
>Ok, that works. However, AFAICT neither HTTP_HOST nor SERVER_NAME are
>explicitly set.


OK. so setting VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW off gets you a host name from
DEFAULT_URL_HOST instead of '10.0.10.18'. Given this and the code in
Utils.get_domain() which is where this comes from, the web server must
be setting '10.0.10.18' as HOST_NAME or SERVER_NAME in the environment
it passes to the CGI. I think that normally, it should pass the name
of the host in the URL that accessed the page, at least in a virtual
hosts configuration, but here it is passing '10.0.10.18'. This is a
web server configuration issue.

Of course, as long as you're not actually using Mailman virtual hosts,
setting VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW off should be an acceptable solution.


>Setting what I think is the SuSE 10.1 equivalent,
>APACHE_SERVERNAME (in /etc/sysconfig/apache) does not fix the problem,
>but does result in Apache generated documents showing
>lists.openarchaeology.net as its root:
>
>http://lists.openarchaeology.net/nopagehere


I don't know enough about the above to comment.


>> If that doesn't do it, try the following:
>>
>> In the Mailman install directory, give the command
>>
>> bin/withlist -i
>>
>> Then at the first >>> prompt type
>>
>> from Mailman import Utils
>>
>> at the next prompt type
>>
>> Utils.get_domain()
>
>Interesting. Following these steps gets me:
>>>> Utils.get_domain()
>'lists.openarchaeology.net'


Because neither HOST_NAME nor SERVER_NAME is set in the environment you
passed to withlist (assuming VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW was on when you did
this test) so DEFAULT_URL_HOST is used.

If VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is off and you set HOST_NAME in the
environment before you invoke withlist (e.g. in bash
HOST_NAME=junk;export HOST_NAME
or in tcsh
setenv HOST_NAME junk
) then the above test will give whatever you set for HOST_NAME in the
environment as the result of Utils.get_domain().

>Now I'm confused...


I hope no longer...


>I'll use the VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off setting for now as I'm not
>assuming this list server will ever be used to hosts lists for
>something other than the openarchaeology domain. Happy to try other
>fixes in the interest of furthering human knowledge ;-).


Other fixes would have to be something that would affect the
environment passed to Mailman's CGIs by the web server. I don't know
this area well enough to suggest what they might be.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jerrywin5 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  7 19:28:23 2006
From: jerrywin5 at yahoo.com (Jerry Hole)
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 13:28:23 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Display of Names in Moderator Subscription Approval
 Request Emails
Message-ID: <4527E3B7.6080008@yahoo.com>

I have a private list set up that requires moderator approval. List 
members are approved based upon who they are. Their email is not enough 
to determine their identity. How can I get the name of those requesting 
subscription approval to show up in the moderator emails?

Jerry Win


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct  7 20:14:02 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 11:14:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman no longer working
In-Reply-To: <4527C6DB.5070406@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061007111402045358561de7@msapiro>

Please copy your replise to the list.

Noah wrote:
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Where are the messages ('ls -lR /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/')?
>>   
>
>yes
>
># ls -lR /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/ | wc -l
>   14430
># ls /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/
>archive         bounces         in              out             shunt
>bad             commands        news            retry           virgin


And in which of the ten queues are the 14,000+ entries and are they all
current entries?


>> What's in Mailman's 'error' log?
>>
>>   
>
>here is a tail of /usr/local/mailman/logs/error
>
>
>Oct 05 21:15:46 2006 (80775) Ignoring unparseable message: 
>1160108146.3305931+690c58fe518535018e9efa2e62f34e6956e6c1e9
>Oct 06 19:45:15 2006 (75058) Uncaught runner exception: No terminating 
>boundary and no trailing empty line
>Oct 06 19:45:15 2006 (75058) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
>    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 151, in 
>dequeue
>    msg = email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py", line 51, in 
>message_from_string
>    return Parser(_class, strict=strict).parsestr(s)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
>    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
>    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 240, in 
>_parsebody
>    msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
>    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
>    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 265, in 
>_parsebody
>    msg = self.parse(fp)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
>    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 206, in 
>_parsebody
>    raise Errors.BoundaryError(
>BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no trailing empty line
>
>Oct 06 19:45:15 2006 (75058) Ignoring unparseable message: 
>1160189115.47842+18be24324dc17289fa21a0eba9728ad56f13d0d2


This entry and the fragment of the Oct 5 entry are from malformed MIME
messages, almost certainly spam, that were ignored.

This is probably not related to your current problem.


>Oct 06 21:56:25 2006 mailmanctl(87639): No child with pid: 78979
>Oct 06 21:56:25 2006 mailmanctl(87639): [Errno 3] No such process
>Oct 06 21:56:25 2006 mailmanctl(87639): Stale pid file removed.
>Oct 06 21:57:20 2006 mailmanctl(87734): No child with pid: 87677
>Oct 06 21:57:20 2006 mailmanctl(87734): [Errno 3] No such process
>Oct 06 21:57:20 2006 mailmanctl(87734): Stale pid file removed.


These may indicate that qrunners died. Is there anything about this in
the 'qrunner' log?


>Oct 06 22:33:46 2006 mailmanctl(90876): The master qrunner lock could 
>not be acquired because it appears as if another
>master qrunner is already running.
>Oct 06 22:33:46 2006 mailmanctl(90876):


These indicate you are doing 'mailmanctl start' or 'mailmanctl -s
start' without first doing 'mailmanctl stop' and verifying that all
Mailman processes are stopped. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct  7 20:31:55 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 11:31:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Display of Names in Moderator Subscription
	ApprovalRequest Emails
In-Reply-To: <4527E3B7.6080008@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061007113155062536f23968@msapiro>

Jerry Hole wrote:

>I have a private list set up that requires moderator approval. List 
>members are approved based upon who they are. Their email is not enough 
>to determine their identity. How can I get the name of those requesting 
>subscription approval to show up in the moderator emails?


You would need to add for example a %(fullname)s replacement to the
subauth.txt template for the list (see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>)
and you would need to change this code fragment in
Mailman/ListAdmin.py from

            text = Utils.maketext(
                'subauth.txt',
                {'username'   : addr,
                 'listname'   : self.internal_name(),
                 'hostname'   : self.host_name,
                 'admindb_url': self.GetScriptURL('admindb',
absolute=1),
                 }, mlist=self)

to

            text = Utils.maketext(
                'subauth.txt',
                {'username'   : addr,
                 'fullname'   : fullname,
                 'listname'   : self.internal_name(),
                 'hostname'   : self.host_name,
                 'admindb_url': self.GetScriptURL('admindb',
absolute=1),
                 }, mlist=self)

i.e., add the

                 'fullname'   : fullname,


line.

Perhaps a simpler method is to just publicize that the way to subscribe
to the list is to send an email to an appropriate address with a
request including who you are, whether you want messages or digests,
etc., and then the appropriate person can mass subscribe or invite the
member.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Oct  7 21:03:17 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 14:03:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing site domain name
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061006235927006281a88e39@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061006235927006281a88e39@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240500c14daa3a45cd@[10.0.1.11]>

At 11:59 PM -0700 10/6/06, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>                         I think that normally, it should pass the name
>  of the host in the URL that accessed the page, at least in a virtual
>  hosts configuration, but here it is passing '10.0.10.18'. This is a
>  web server configuration issue.

This could also be a reverse DNS issue, since he's using RFC-1918 
private IP space.  This might be fixable from within the web server, 
however.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From admin2 at enabled.com  Sat Oct  7 21:19:41 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 12:19:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman no longer working
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061007111402045358561de7@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061007111402045358561de7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4527FDCD.1090009@enabled.com>


>
> And in which of the ten queues are the 14,000+ entries and are they all
> current entries?
>
>
>   

well lookie here.

# ls -lR qfiles/shunt/ | wc -l
   14393


what does that mean -  what is the shunt queue directory for?

here is a snippet of the file namesin qufiles/shunt

1160196209.4276011+2cb7b1389cc59eb383e0a179f1b59eed1b376aa5.pck
1160196209.4734559+63faff22811443c4c89098dd10ce9417852920e3.pck
1160196209.5072241+8105afad74a5cdbaac7821626a483cc674b0c9ad.pck
1160196209.5556359+bd6f797928d52cc8b9f899655a246c819334adae.pck
1160196209.590873+2a5f1aa36e17e8a79dc08ef16d37118ff6c57ecb.pck
1160196209.6326721+af3f4018e49a1aa658dd00ab9647f740e1bfa5ef.pck
1160196209.6745429+7b4a363c5d6b3424f8a354cb96ee264e0140ad33.pck
1160196209.716466+e9179b50c745d1dd1568c6cf975e87d9db67fe15.pck
1160196209.771184+a3664c9dd86d55f567e79a8b61d83ddc7563f3db.pck
1160196209.8121741+b8f598a5f14355e5acba3f962bb3f4d4ce8b2883.pck
1160196209.8540821+dd989c817f5b59f1eadc8545012d0793f54c4b74.pck
1160196209.89591+a031c30d55c9ef0922bdd64a0a02cd37bbb21a24.pck
1160196209.946244+3655a069af376348d0051aac1171ce9c7cdebf38.pck
1160196209.979713+53463a27f773583ad8151955523618248804031d.pck
1160196210.0325711+98d2a68cfa8244cb7ff465f0538d4f95d3d97b0d.pck
1160196210.0694251+c5a913922860b2bb9ca7700b261dea17e3cc2c14.pck



cheers,

noah




From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct  8 02:03:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 17:03:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman no longer working
In-Reply-To: <4527FDCD.1090009@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610071703370156b1364181@msapiro>

Noah wrote:
>
>well lookie here.
>
># ls -lR qfiles/shunt/ | wc -l
>   14393
>
>
>what does that mean -  what is the shunt queue directory for?


When Mailman encounters an unanticipated exception in handling a
message, it logs the error and puts the message aside in the shunt
queue. After the underlying cause is addressed, it may be appropriate
to run bin/unshunt to reprocess the messages, but not before the
underlying problem is addressed and fixed and maybe not at all.


>here is a snippet of the file namesin qufiles/shunt
>
>1160196209.4276011+2cb7b1389cc59eb383e0a179f1b59eed1b376aa5.pck
>1160196209.4734559+63faff22811443c4c89098dd10ce9417852920e3.pck
>1160196209.5072241+8105afad74a5cdbaac7821626a483cc674b0c9ad.pck
>1160196209.5556359+bd6f797928d52cc8b9f899655a246c819334adae.pck
>1160196209.590873+2a5f1aa36e17e8a79dc08ef16d37118ff6c57ecb.pck
>1160196209.6326721+af3f4018e49a1aa658dd00ab9647f740e1bfa5ef.pck
>1160196209.6745429+7b4a363c5d6b3424f8a354cb96ee264e0140ad33.pck
>1160196209.716466+e9179b50c745d1dd1568c6cf975e87d9db67fe15.pck
>1160196209.771184+a3664c9dd86d55f567e79a8b61d83ddc7563f3db.pck
>1160196209.8121741+b8f598a5f14355e5acba3f962bb3f4d4ce8b2883.pck
>1160196209.8540821+dd989c817f5b59f1eadc8545012d0793f54c4b74.pck
>1160196209.89591+a031c30d55c9ef0922bdd64a0a02cd37bbb21a24.pck
>1160196209.946244+3655a069af376348d0051aac1171ce9c7cdebf38.pck
>1160196209.979713+53463a27f773583ad8151955523618248804031d.pck
>1160196210.0325711+98d2a68cfa8244cb7ff465f0538d4f95d3d97b0d.pck
>1160196210.0694251+c5a913922860b2bb9ca7700b261dea17e3cc2c14.pck


Is this the beginning or the end? The nnn.nnn at the beginning of the
name is a time stamp - floating point seconds since the start of the
epoch. The above range from 'Fri Oct  6 21:43:29 2006' to 'Fri Oct  6
21:43:30 2006'.

There should be an entry in Mailman's error log for each one of those
with a full traceback and ending with a line

SHUNTING: filebase

Where filebase is the filename as above without the .pck extension.

What do the tracebacks and errors say?

Also, you can probably examine those files with bin/show_qfiles or
bin/dumpdb and see if the message might indicate some kind of loop.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct  8 03:51:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 18:51:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman no longer working
In-Reply-To: <452852B5.9030009@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610071851410421ece1f56e@msapiro>

Noah wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> When Mailman encounters an unanticipated exception in handling a
>> message, it logs the error and puts the message aside in the shunt
>> queue. After the underlying cause is addressed, it may be appropriate
>> to run bin/unshunt to reprocess the messages, but not before the
>> underlying problem is addressed and fixed and maybe not at all.
>>
>>
>>   
>okay thanks
>>   
>>> here is a snippet of the file namesin qufiles/shunt
>>>
>>> 1160196209.4276011+2cb7b1389cc59eb383e0a179f1b59eed1b376aa5.pck
>>> 1160196209.4734559+63faff22811443c4c89098dd10ce9417852920e3.pck
>>> 1160196209.5072241+8105afad74a5cdbaac7821626a483cc674b0c9ad.pck
>>> 1160196209.5556359+bd6f797928d52cc8b9f899655a246c819334adae.pck
>>> 1160196209.590873+2a5f1aa36e17e8a79dc08ef16d37118ff6c57ecb.pck
>>> 1160196209.6326721+af3f4018e49a1aa658dd00ab9647f740e1bfa5ef.pck
>>> 1160196209.6745429+7b4a363c5d6b3424f8a354cb96ee264e0140ad33.pck
>>> 1160196209.716466+e9179b50c745d1dd1568c6cf975e87d9db67fe15.pck
>>> 1160196209.771184+a3664c9dd86d55f567e79a8b61d83ddc7563f3db.pck
>>> 1160196209.8121741+b8f598a5f14355e5acba3f962bb3f4d4ce8b2883.pck
>>> 1160196209.8540821+dd989c817f5b59f1eadc8545012d0793f54c4b74.pck
>>> 1160196209.89591+a031c30d55c9ef0922bdd64a0a02cd37bbb21a24.pck
>>> 1160196209.946244+3655a069af376348d0051aac1171ce9c7cdebf38.pck
>>> 1160196209.979713+53463a27f773583ad8151955523618248804031d.pck
>>> 1160196210.0325711+98d2a68cfa8244cb7ff465f0538d4f95d3d97b0d.pck
>>> 1160196210.0694251+c5a913922860b2bb9ca7700b261dea17e3cc2c14.pck
>>>     
>>
>>
>> Is this the beginning or the end? The nnn.nnn at the beginning of the
>> name is a time stamp - floating point seconds since the start of the
>> epoch. The above range from 'Fri Oct  6 21:43:29 2006' to 'Fri Oct  6
>> 21:43:30 2006'.
>>   
>
>okay here is the start of the qfiles/shunt directory = so around October 
>6th at 21:33
>
>--- snip ---
>
># ls -l  | less
>total 274700
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman    10210 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195625.999362+c89e0d7b8e07710
>e7c154543027c12dad2a60f9a.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman     3121 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195626.0452521+2066b799fc17b7
>a02e64ac7f7e7c0e8298caf329.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman   254315 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195626.111922+0e86b9e8b76c77e
>eae51676ddda24eb4784112f4.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman     3280 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195626.1932449+07084c71555a8c
>29767428f9983cd83ff54f29e0.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman    18023 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195626.2369709+8a099a228d5aa6
>2cecb29f6e24620ac1c7a5a1f1.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman     4231 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195626.2888789+abd785fe25c7d4
>504fc6d102f3f218dda7dda24f.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman  1339443 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195626.407881+0cb3adf00e340e3
>3efd319c679074ef2351d4d1e.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman    41846 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195626.633749+1b24da7f45e5dba
>f4d6d25ebf8443b43c9bd20be.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman     2973 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195626.695061+3aac5e546d276b5
>6779ed08af756d1d2baed00b6.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman    41388 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195626.746171+2a1736ceae5ff7b
>7d8ba19cab30b570987b10385.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman     8894 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195626.8063321+e67b6bf18cc5c1
>35fac6903815b4f7e554087fac.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman    44829 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195626.8536539+3e4e1eeecc6a2c
>a0444aa03c51fed2099f4d680b.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman     3162 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195626.8973761+8afa4edfeafd77
>c29f7b64a1dfa9304b0d51e949.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman     2362 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195626.9391079+47c40f250f06ec
>cbdb28ac8abe034e1390005eca.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman    42127 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195626.993763+0d551742b9149fb
>61b2d1b31fab5f435869bc17c.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman     1665 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195627.054147+8c2ad33a86933c5
>c5d7c47408a96d3bef13ea520.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman     1955 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195627.0825861+7f05bcbdd780d0
>b61ce59f05842ebb3be37d0740.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman     1612 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195627.1322341+d803fa8078f5ef
>0a38b4e894aaba8f74db900110.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman    11844 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195627.1798019+bebaed1a8cb75f
>a2f22d184574a4af895500fa2b.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman    42152 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195627.2235739+47763a52ea557f
>2308a292a53b189b425d17efd1.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman    42179 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195627.2690489+e2fdc1d15ca33f
>4fe59872a0eaf9f25729435633.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman     6434 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195627.3298931+094a7d137dc73d
>84fe6c6b09a4ca54dc6137224d.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman     6464 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195627.372112+3bad6533f7c966c
>69d17d479b8d258504e25f3a2.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 root  mailman     9185 Oct  6 21:33 
>1160195627.4168611+9b02b5f80ab201
>ee4cf0ddc16974171a62be7f1b.pck
>
>
>---- snip -----
>> There should be an entry in Mailman's error log for each one of those
>> with a full traceback and ending with a line
>>
>> SHUNTING: filebase
>>   
>> Where filebase is the filename as above without the .pck extension.
>>
>> What do the tracebacks and errors say?
>>
>>   
>
>well here are the errors that have ended up in 
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/error  I dont see anything in the date range of 
>october 6th.  so what else can I try?
>
>---- snip ---
>
># grep "SHUNT" error
>Feb 11 11:47:03 2006 (67129) SHUNTING: 
>1139687222.191267+a408a7c3791d970391e2ee859e7ee1aee4e511ec
>Feb 19 23:23:04 2006 (88962) SHUNTING: 
>1140420182.7228961+3cca5db88da3b3ffe735834b1101f27b97a626a2
>Mar 07 12:45:22 2006 (96045) SHUNTING: 
>1141242240.8385019+b94b2e966cad393acbb1b8727f5596b971c5db35
>Mar 11 08:09:47 2006 (1215) SHUNTING: 
>1142093385.240932+63ea006aaf597383a233e9b93899daec9bb5f4c9
>Mar 15 07:27:58 2006 (63110) SHUNTING: 
>1142436477.7204449+451ae4e6b12ffc224ba7d6c1d0cd3ca51180c90b
>Mar 20 12:05:03 2006 (32271) SHUNTING: 
>1142885102.207798+68a0d57e24ffed593bfc41d7f04b5abad8565522
>Mar 24 12:02:38 2006 (79703) SHUNTING: 
>1143230556.5646989+07333452c2faa25964fda992b6ffe1facd7ef738
>Mar 30 10:59:09 2006 (43059) SHUNTING: 
>1143745147.5963349+fa1dd3bcc355fc953e1cc2c56a4ee61696889596
>Apr 02 14:30:30 2006 (39135) SHUNTING: 
>1144013428.959239+eaf23aaa2eeda1fbea24bd6168a1671b127bf608
>
>---- snip ---


I am puzzled. As I read the code, it is not possible to create the
shunt queue entry without also logging the error and the SHUNTING
message. Ordinarily, I would suggest that you might be logging to a
different set of log files in a different directory, but an earlier
post showed error log entries with timestamps Oct 06 21:56:25 2006 and
later. Is it possible you have more than one Mailman installation?


>> Also, you can probably examine those files with bin/show_qfiles or
>> bin/dumpdb and see if the message might indicate some kind of loop.
>>
>>   
>I can see the qfile but it looks like a regular post.  so I am not sure 
>what is going on here.


Well, there seem to be 14,000 of them in a 10 minute period. I don't
think they can all be regular posts unless something is looping on the
same post, but that shouldn't be because once the post is shunted, it
isn't processed further.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From admin2 at enabled.com  Sun Oct  8 03:53:32 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 18:53:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] shunting messages
Message-ID: <45285A1C.4040806@enabled.com>

Take a look at this.  I ran bin/unshunt

now i have a ton of 'SHUNT' errors in the /usr/local/mailman/logs/error


so it looks like there are some python errors here.  please look below.  
I am not sure where to go from here.

# pkg_info | grep python
python-2.3.5_1      An interpreted object-oriented programming language
python-2.4.3        An interpreted object-oriented programming language
# pkg_info | grep mailman
mailman-2.1.9       A mailing list manager (MLM) with a user-friendly 
web front
# python -V
Python 2.4.3


---- snip ----

Oct 07 18:26:43 2006 (65294) SHUNTING: 
1160195626.2888789+de6ec73e1418406952d796443
2212bd9d3bac7a5
Oct 07 18:26:44 2006 (65294) Uncaught runner exception: 'str' object has 
no attribu
te 'get_sender'
Oct 07 18:26:44 2006 (65294) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 162, in _onefile
    sender = msg.get_sender()
AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'get_sender'

Oct 07 18:26:44 2006 (65294) SHUNTING: 
1160195626.8973761+c430d72c38c000768d9a697a6
bc8379cbc23bbe7
Oct 07 18:26:45 2006 (65294) Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec 
can't encode
character u'\xe7' in position 4: ordinal not in range(128)
Oct 07 18:26:45 2006 (65294) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, 
in _dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, 
in _dopipeli
ne
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 111, in 
process
    g.flatten(p)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 101, in 
flatten
    self._write(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 129, in 
_write
    self._dispatch(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 155, in 
_dispatch
    meth(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 198, in 
_handle_text
    self._fp.write(payload)
UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xe7' in 
position 4: ord
inal not in range(128)

Oct 07 18:26:45 2006 (65294) SHUNTING: 
1160195627.8984029+f529140d829e102ddbe3f700f
0077af52c6a98dd
Oct 07 18:26:45 2006 (65294) Uncaught runner exception: 'str' object has 
no attribu
te 'get_sender'
Oct 07 18:26:45 2006 (65294) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 162, in _onefile
    sender = msg.get_sender()
AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'get_sender'





From admin2 at enabled.com  Sun Oct  8 03:57:35 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 18:57:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman no longer working
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610071851410421ece1f56e@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200610071851410421ece1f56e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45285B0F.3080909@enabled.com>


> I am puzzled. As I read the code, it is not possible to create the
> shunt queue entry without also logging the error and the SHUNTING
> message. Ordinarily, I would suggest that you might be logging to a
> different set of log files in a different directory, but an earlier
> post showed error log entries with timestamps Oct 06 21:56:25 2006 and
> later. Is it possible you have more than one Mailman installation?
>
>   


Hi mark,


I am puzzled as well.

I can see that only one installation is running.

# /usr/local/bin/python -V
Python 2.4.3

after running bin/unshunt there are tons of "SHUNT" errors messages in 
/usr/local/mailman/logs/error


in fact after runnning unshunt twice I see there are a lot of them :)

# grep "SHUNT" /usr/local/mailman/logs/error | wc -l
   27202



---- snip ----

# ps -auxww | grep mailman
mailman 65294  5.2  0.7 15520 14120  ??  R     1:10AM   2:12.89 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 65299  0.0  0.3  8376 6924  ??  I     1:10AM   0:00.28 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 65298  0.0  0.7 15084 13656  ??  S     1:10AM   0:43.43 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 65296  0.0  0.8 18840 17536  ??  S     1:10AM   1:42.70 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 65295  0.0  0.3  8384 6964  ??  S     1:10AM   0:14.27 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 65293  0.0  0.3  8536 7192  ??  S     1:10AM   0:14.30 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 65292  0.0  0.7 15180 13772  ??  S     1:10AM   0:29.19 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 65291  0.0  0.5 11264 9704  ??  S     1:10AM   0:28.09 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 65290  0.0  0.3  8416 6976  ??  Is    1:10AM   0:00.03 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start

--- snip ---


>   
>>> Also, you can probably examine those files with bin/show_qfiles or
>>> bin/dumpdb and see if the message might indicate some kind of loop.
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>> I can see the qfile but it looks like a regular post.  so I am not sure 
>> what is going on here.
>>     
>
>
> Well, there seem to be 14,000 of them in a 10 minute period. I don't
> think they can all be regular posts unless something is looping on the
> same post, but that shouldn't be because once the post is shunted, it
> isn't processed further.
>
>   



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct  8 04:33:11 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 19:33:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] shunting messages
In-Reply-To: <45285A1C.4040806@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061007193311062540f95bdc@msapiro>

Noah wrote:

>Take a look at this.  I ran bin/unshunt
>
>now i have a ton of 'SHUNT' errors in the /usr/local/mailman/logs/error
>
>
>so it looks like there are some python errors here.  please look below.  
>I am not sure where to go from here.
>
># pkg_info | grep python
>python-2.3.5_1      An interpreted object-oriented programming language
>python-2.4.3        An interpreted object-oriented programming language
># pkg_info | grep mailman
>mailman-2.1.9       A mailing list manager (MLM) with a user-friendly 
>web front
># python -V
>Python 2.4.3
>
>
>---- snip ----
>
>Oct 07 18:26:43 2006 (65294) SHUNTING: 
>1160195626.2888789+de6ec73e1418406952d796443
>2212bd9d3bac7a5
>Oct 07 18:26:44 2006 (65294) Uncaught runner exception: 'str' object has 
>no attribu
>te 'get_sender'
>Oct 07 18:26:44 2006 (65294) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 162, in _onefile
>    sender = msg.get_sender()
>AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'get_sender'

There seems to be an issue with the FreeBSD Mailman 2.1.9 package. See
the whole thread beginning at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-September/053546.html>.
The second and third posts in that thread give a suggested workaround
(be sure to read the correction in the third post). I still have no
idea what the cause is, especially since in your case, you say it only
affects one list. It may not even be the whole source of your problem,
and it appears the workaround may not have been effective for the OP.

Perhaps there is some modification in the FreeBSD package that breaks
the queueing mechanism. Can you download Switchboard.py, revision 8023
from
<http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/mailman/tags/Release_2_1_9/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py?view=log>
and compare it to the one in your installation - maybe post the result
of 'diff -u' if they are different.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct  8 04:41:57 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 19:41:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman no longer working
In-Reply-To: <45285B0F.3080909@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610071941570734d4f61cf7@msapiro>

Noah wrote:
>
>I can see that only one installation is running.


But is it the same Mailman from the same directory as the one that was
running when the messages were shunted on Oct 6 21:33?


># /usr/local/bin/python -V
>Python 2.4.3
>
>after running bin/unshunt there are tons of "SHUNT" errors messages in 
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/error
>
>
>in fact after runnning unshunt twice I see there are a lot of them :)
>
># grep "SHUNT" /usr/local/mailman/logs/error | wc -l
>   27202


It is not a good idea to run unshunt without at least attempting to fix
the underlying issue that caused the messages to be shunted in the
first place.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From admin2 at enabled.com  Sun Oct  8 05:09:56 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 20:09:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] shunting messages
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061007193311062540f95bdc@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061007193311062540f95bdc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45286C04.2020404@enabled.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Noah wrote:
>
>   
>> Take a look at this.  I ran bin/unshunt
>>
>> now i have a ton of 'SHUNT' errors in the /usr/local/mailman/logs/error
>>
>>
>> so it looks like there are some python errors here.  please look below.  
>> I am not sure where to go from here.
>>
>> # pkg_info | grep python
>> python-2.3.5_1      An interpreted object-oriented programming language
>> python-2.4.3        An interpreted object-oriented programming language
>> # pkg_info | grep mailman
>> mailman-2.1.9       A mailing list manager (MLM) with a user-friendly 
>> web front
>> # python -V
>> Python 2.4.3
>>
>>
>> ---- snip ----
>>
>> Oct 07 18:26:43 2006 (65294) SHUNTING: 
>> 1160195626.2888789+de6ec73e1418406952d796443
>> 2212bd9d3bac7a5
>> Oct 07 18:26:44 2006 (65294) Uncaught runner exception: 'str' object has 
>> no attribu
>> te 'get_sender'
>> Oct 07 18:26:44 2006 (65294) Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
>>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 162, in _onefile
>>    sender = msg.get_sender()
>> AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'get_sender'
>>     
>
> There seems to be an issue with the FreeBSD Mailman 2.1.9 package. See
> the whole thread beginning at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-September/053546.html>.
> The second and third posts in that thread give a suggested workaround
> (be sure to read the correction in the third post). I still have no
> idea what the cause is, especially since in your case, you say it only
> affects one list. It may not even be the whole source of your problem,
> and it appears the workaround may not have been effective for the OP.
>
> Perhaps there is some modification in the FreeBSD package that breaks
> the queueing mechanism. Can you download Switchboard.py, revision 8023
> from
> <http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/mailman/tags/Release_2_1_9/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py?view=log>
> and compare it to the one in your installation - maybe post the result
> of 'diff -u' if they are different.
>
>   
thank you for the explanation after looking at the first message with 
bin/dumpdb

I am able to see parsemsg is set to:

--- snip ---

{   '_parsemsg': False,
    'received_time': 1160195626.2888789,
    'version': 3,
    'whichq': '/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/in'}
[----- end pickle file -----]


----s nip ---

so I am hoping your fix works

cheer,s

Noah



From admin2 at enabled.com  Sun Oct  8 05:10:50 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 20:10:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman no longer working
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610071941570734d4f61cf7@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200610071941570734d4f61cf7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45286C3A.1070203@enabled.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Noah wrote:
>   
>> I can see that only one installation is running.
>>     
>
>
> But is it the same Mailman from the same directory as the one that was
> running when the messages were shunted on Oct 6 21:33?
>
>
>   
>> # /usr/local/bin/python -V
>> Python 2.4.3
>>
>> after running bin/unshunt there are tons of "SHUNT" errors messages in 
>> /usr/local/mailman/logs/error
>>
>>
>> in fact after runnning unshunt twice I see there are a lot of them :)
>>
>> # grep "SHUNT" /usr/local/mailman/logs/error | wc -l
>>   27202
>>     
>
>
> It is not a good idea to run unshunt without at least attempting to fix
> the underlying issue that caused the messages to be shunted in the
> first place.
>
>   


okay well there were no relevant "SHUNT" messages in logs/error . how 
else could I have figure this out from bin/dumpdb ?

cheers,

Noah




From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct  8 05:46:22 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 20:46:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman no longer working
In-Reply-To: <45286C3A.1070203@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610072046220062243a6d74@msapiro>

Noah wrote:
>
>okay well there were no relevant "SHUNT" messages in logs/error . how 
>else could I have figure this out from bin/dumpdb ?

You can't. In general, there may be nothing at all wrong with the
message that was shunted. It may be shunted due to a software error or
some other condition not directly related to the message itself. But,
if you don't find out what the error was and do something about it,
unshunting will likely just cause the message to encounter the same
error and be shunted again.

The mystery here is where the error log entries went. The code (at
least our code, I can't speak for FreeBSD) always writes the error log
when shunting a message (unless permissions prevent writing the error
log in which case, that exception kills the runner).

I would as root do

find / -name error

and see which of the resultant files look like Mailman error logs and
whether any of those contain the 'missing' log entries.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tazzer at gmail.com  Sun Oct  8 06:27:34 2006
From: tazzer at gmail.com (Tazzer)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 21:27:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can users create mailing lists on their
Message-ID: <22b51f60610072127s47a13e1dq6b90aa20b3fcf84a@mail.gmail.com>

I also agree.  In our environment users want to be able to create a
list without the involvement/delay of the mailman administrator.

Would very much like to see this as a feature of Mailman.

Thank you.

(Sorry if this does not meet up under the original thread.  Have
included the reference text in case it doesn't)

Scott D. Allen      sallen at infomanage.net
     Tue Oct  3 15:12:42 EDT 2000

    agreed. i'm just answering the question about users creating their own
lists. i would also like that type of checks-and-balances, but some people
just want to setup something in a dev environment.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Chuq Von Rospach [mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 2:08 PM
>To: Scott D. Allen; 'Victor Tsaran'; 'mailman-users at python.org'
>Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Can users create mailing lists on their
>own?
>
>
>At 1:48 PM -0400 10/3/00, Scott D. Allen wrote:
>>not from the web interface. if you gave them access to the
>mailman uid, or
>>setup a script of your own, you could have them run the
>newlist command
>>under an effective uid or similar.
>
>but that still doesn't set up the mail aliases or wire the list into
>the system. IMHO, I *want* an admin in the loop for list creation,
>since you have to tweak things that can really break the system if
>you don't know what you're doing.
>
>Imagine automating all of that, and having a user create the lists
>root and postmaster....
>
>--
>Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
>Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)
>
>You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct  8 15:22:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 06:22:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can users create mailing lists on their
In-Reply-To: <22b51f60610072127s47a13e1dq6b90aa20b3fcf84a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610080622540125fae17853@msapiro>

Tazzer wrote:

>I also agree.  In our environment users want to be able to create a
>list without the involvement/delay of the mailman administrator.
>
>Would very much like to see this as a feature of Mailman.


This *is* a current feature. The mailman site admin (or anyone with
command line access to mailman) can set a list creator password with
bin/mmsitepass. Then anyone who knows this password can create a list
via the web interface.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ge at linuxbox.org  Sun Oct  8 17:01:39 2006
From: ge at linuxbox.org (Gadi Evron)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 10:01:39 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google Code Search
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0610080959440.25392-100000@linuxbox.org>

Hi guys. I've been playing a lot with Google's new code search, collecting
a lot of search strings relating to security.

I searched for TBD and then TBD security. The very first hit is from
mailman 2.0.9:

    38:   *
          * TBD: This file needs a security audit.
          */

Just thought I'd share. If mailman is in need of volunteers, please let us
know.

	Gadi.



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Sun Oct  8 18:17:53 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 11:17:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google Code Search
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0610080959440.25392-100000@linuxbox.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0610080959440.25392-100000@linuxbox.org>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610080917n246c8e24s84e8547bbcb53ee4@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/8/06, Gadi Evron <ge at linuxbox.org> wrote:
> I searched for TBD and then TBD security. The very first hit is from
> mailman 2.0.9:
>           * TBD: This file needs a security audit.
2.0.9? Mailman is currently 2.1.9. I'm not sure if this still applies.

> Just thought I'd share. If mailman is in need of volunteers, please let us
> know.
Also, the proper place for your message would probably be
mailman-developers, rather than mailman-users.


-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From barry at python.org  Sun Oct  8 19:33:29 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 13:33:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google Code Search
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0610080959440.25392-100000@linuxbox.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0610080959440.25392-100000@linuxbox.org>
Message-ID: <96E2C3CB-1A11-4AF1-B100-98D7593DF27B@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Oct 8, 2006, at 11:01 AM, Gadi Evron wrote:

> Hi guys. I've been playing a lot with Google's new code search,  
> collecting
> a lot of search strings relating to security.
>
> I searched for TBD and then TBD security. The very first hit is from
> mailman 2.0.9:
>
>     38:   *
>           * TBD: This file needs a security audit.
>           */
>
> Just thought I'd share. If mailman is in need of volunteers, please  
> let us
> know.

That is from the vsnprintf.c file and it's only used on systems that  
don't have vsnprintf().  The file was taken almost literally from  
screen 3.7.6 and hasn't been looked at or updated in quite a while.

OTOH, are there any systems left that /don't/ have vsnprintf() in  
their standard C library?  Certainly the modern Solaris, Mac OS X,  
and Linux boxes that I have available all provide vsnprintf().

- -Barry

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From ge at linuxbox.org  Sun Oct  8 21:08:00 2006
From: ge at linuxbox.org (Gadi Evron)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 14:08:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google Code Search
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00610080917n246c8e24s84e8547bbcb53ee4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0610081407450.4080-100000@linuxbox.org>

On Sun, 8 Oct 2006, Patrick Bogen wrote:
> On 10/8/06, Gadi Evron <ge at linuxbox.org> wrote:
> > I searched for TBD and then TBD security. The very first hit is from
> > mailman 2.0.9:
> >           * TBD: This file needs a security audit.
> 2.0.9? Mailman is currently 2.1.9. I'm not sure if this still applies.
> 
> > Just thought I'd share. If mailman is in need of volunteers, please let us
> > know.
> Also, the proper place for your message would probably be
> mailman-developers, rather than mailman-users.
> 

Thanks. I'm a user though, and thought I'd ask.

> 
> -- 
> - Patrick Bogen
> 



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Oct  9 06:31:41 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 23:31:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google Code Search
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0610081407450.4080-100000@linuxbox.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0610081407450.4080-100000@linuxbox.org>
Message-ID: <p06240500c14f7fa4e0d0@[172.16.1.122]>

At 2:08 PM -0500 10/8/06, Gadi Evron wrote:

>>  > Just thought I'd share. If mailman is in need of volunteers, please let us
>>  > know.

>>
>>  Also, the proper place for your message would probably be
>>  mailman-developers, rather than mailman-users.
>
>  Thanks. I'm a user though, and thought I'd ask.

Patrick -- Gadi is a well-known member of the security community, we 
just need to help him find the appropriate place to have these 
discussions.

Gadi -- if you find something you think is a real security issue, 
please note that the official Mailman security policy is laid out in 
FAQ 1.27 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp>. 
If you have more general development questions, then Patrick is 
correct that the best place for those discussions is on the 
mailman-developers list.

If you have any questions regarding Mailman that are more 
operations-oriented, then mailman-users is the appropriate place.

If you're not sure about a particular question, then if you think it 
might be sensitive you should start with the instructions in FAQ 
1.27, otherwise you should probably post first to mailman-users, and 
we can redirect you if necessary.


And yes, the Mailman project can always use more volunteers.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From cath at smelliesavage.com  Mon Oct  9 11:35:00 2006
From: cath at smelliesavage.com (Cath O'Connell)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 10:35:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Mailman @ Ghoulnet
Message-ID: <20061009093417.118471E4008@bag.python.org>

Hi,
 
We have a domain hosted at Ghoulnet on which we have enabled a couple of mailing lists, which I'm told use your software.
 
We are having some problems, in that when we send an email to the list it just disappears - no bounce message, no delivery failure, no nothing - just disappears into the ether somewhere. Can you shed any light? The people at Ghoulnet seem to know nothing about the software and have referred me to yourselves directly!
 
To set up the list, we gave it a name and an administrator password, then we imported people from a text file. The members all seem to be there as when you log in to look they are all visible.
 
Also, some users are receiving emails with password reminders - what are these passwords for? We didn't set them up and I'm a bit confused about what they are for!
 
If you can shed any light at all I would be most grateful as we have now been trying to get this working for two or three months!
 
I look forward to hearing from you.
 
Kind regards
 
Cath
 


___________________________________________ 
Cath O'Connell

Systems Administrator
Smellie Savage Computers Ltd
http://www.smelliesavage.com 

Telephone: 0115 945 2422 
 

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Oct  9 16:12:27 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 23:12:27 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  FW: Mailman @ Ghoulnet
In-Reply-To: <20061009093417.118471E4008@bag.python.org>
References: <20061009093417.118471E4008@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <17706.22731.373086.891551@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Cath O'Connell writes:

 > We are having some problems, in that when we send an email to the
 > list it just disappears - no bounce message, no delivery failure,
 > no nothing - just disappears into the ether somewhere. Can you shed
 > any light? The people at Ghoulnet seem to know nothing about the
 > software and have referred me to yourselves directly!

This is Ghoulnet's responsibility, as they control access to the
information required for diagnosis.  If they haven't given you direct
access to the Mailman logs, the mail transfer agent (MTA) logs, and
the Mailman queues, you're going to have to ask them for various
information about that.

Internet email is extremely complex, potentially involving many hosts
each running many programs.  If the failures are happening with the
list, consistently with the list, and only with the list, then
something *probably* is wrong with the list (but only probably, mail
is that complex).

In order to find out precisely what is happening, you need to be able
to look at the logs produced by the various programs involved, and
often at the message queues.  These are only accessible from the
host.  If you do not have a login on the host which manages the lists,
you'll need to get someone who does have a login (and probably special
access, perhaps even full superuser privileges) to help you.

There's very little we can do without that information except to tell
you you're going to have to get it and point you at the FAQ, which has
lots of advice on *what* information to get and *where* on the list
host you can find it.

	Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

You may also wish to look at Mailman's feature list

		  http://www.list.org/features.html

I suspect from your description that you may have a "non-traditional"
usage pattern, and Mailman has a number of settings that you can
tune.  The passwords are one of them.

 > Also, some users are receiving emails with password reminders -
 > what are these passwords for? We didn't set them up and I'm a bit
 > confused about what they are for!

The traditional usage pattern for mailing lists that motivated the
development of Mailman is users who come and go at their own option.
Mailman is primarily a means to take the burden of adding and removing
members from list administrator.  Mailman also allows various forms of
member configuration (sending bundles of messages at once as digests,
instead of sending each message immediately as it comes in, for
example).  These options can be changed by each member on an
individual basis.  There are various forms of mischief that can be
played by someone who has access to your list membership information.
The passwords are an imperfect (but so far very effective) way to
forestall such mischief.

By default, passwords are automatically generated, and tend to be less
than memorable.  So reminders are sent.

These reminders can be disabled on the general options page of the
list administrator's web site.

It sounds to me like there are a fair number of standard settings that
may not be best for your use.  While you're checking the FAQ, you
might want to look up how to tune your list settings to make things as
convenient as possible for your admins and users.

HTH

Steve



From thml1 at gmx.de  Mon Oct  9 16:31:21 2006
From: thml1 at gmx.de (Thomas Mladek)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 16:31:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration of mailinglist
Message-ID: <20061009143121.44760@gmx.net>

Hi,

I want to migrate a lot of lists from majordomo to mailman.
Searching the web i found a perl script that worked for mailman 2.0

http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/Current/mailman-117/mailman/contrib/majordomo2mailman.pl

Is there any script working for the uptodate version of mailman?
Or do any of you know what I have to keep in mind writing sutch a scipt? 

Yours sincerely
Thomas


From stupidmail4me at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  9 16:49:39 2006
From: stupidmail4me at yahoo.com (stupidmail4me)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 07:49:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610061350020531c00ab075@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061009144939.41959.qmail@web30115.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes, ArchRunner is running...
30014 ??  I       2:00.15 /usr/local/bin/python2.3
/usr/local/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner
--runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s

But no, there's nothing in qfiles/archive.

--- Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> stupidmail4me wrote:
> 
> >Mail is sending through
> >the lists appropriately, but it's not archiving at
> >all. I've checked Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py and the
> >list's configuration options and they're all set to
> >archive. I've checked permissions in
> >/var/spool/archive/* and they appear to be fine (if
> I
> >give _mailman a shell I can create files).
> 
> Is ArchiveRunner running? Is there anything in
> Mailman's
> qfiles/archive/ directory? Is there anything in
> Mailman's 'error' log?
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is
> for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use
> your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Oct  9 17:09:38 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 10:09:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google Code Search
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00610090808p27bf3ab9ncc47f88df54231fa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0610081407450.4080-100000@linuxbox.org>
	<p06240500c14f7fa4e0d0@172.16.1.122>
	<6fbe3da00610090808p27bf3ab9ncc47f88df54231fa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610090809o64e8a5d2i376e3b59873eda6c@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/9/06, Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/8/06, Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:
> > At 2:08 PM -0500 10/8/06, Gadi Evron wrote:
> >
> > >>  > Just thought I'd share. If mailman is in need of volunteers, please let us
> > >>  > know.
> >
> > >>
> > >>  Also, the proper place for your message would probably be
> > >>  mailman-developers, rather than mailman-users.
> > >
> > >  Thanks. I'm a user though, and thought I'd ask.
> >
> > Patrick -- Gadi is a well-known member of the security community, we
> > just need to help him find the appropriate place to have these
> > discussions.
> Not trying to be rude; it just seemed to me that for security issues
> in the code (rather than, say, conceptual security issues), the
> appropriate place to start would be mailman-developers- and the list
> members there would be better equipped to know what's going on. But,
> it could just be that I have a flawed understanding of the exact
> purpose of our various lists.
>
> --
> - Patrick Bogen
>

Meant to send this to the list. :/ Sorry for the dupe, Brad.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From bmacknz at gmail.com  Mon Oct  9 17:10:51 2006
From: bmacknz at gmail.com (Bruce Mackenzie gm <BMackenzie@alum.mit.edu>)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 11:10:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] transfer archives from majordomo to mailman ?
Message-ID: <fe57541b0610090810s26450ee1ve4cde1b544d23e27@mail.gmail.com>

Does anybody have experience transferring the archived messages from an
old majordomo e-list, to a new mailman e-list which replaces it?

Any suggestions on :

Option A. - What I am thinking of trying...
Use the majordomo 'get' command to e-mail all the messages to mailman.
Something like:
1. before adding subscribers to the new mailman e-list,
2. make a temporary e-mail address, which forwards mail to the new
mailman e-list,
3. send a request with that as a 'from:' address, sent to majordomo,
asking it to send messages back, (using the majordomo 'index'
and 'get' commands.)   Thus mailman would receive all the old messages,
as if they were recently sent.
The problem is the subject lines & dates of the messages will not be useful.

Option B - The majordomo archives are just directories full of text files,
so the could be loaded as web pages.  But that does not provide privacy
and other nice features of archives, without some effort.

Option C. - There are old references to 'arch' and 'digest_arch',
 but they say...
>> This is being deprecated since mailman has been shifted over to ...
pipermail.


-- thanks,
Bruce Mackenzie
  please cc: BMacknz at gmail.com


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Oct  9 17:17:47 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 10:17:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] transfer archives from majordomo to mailman ?
In-Reply-To: <fe57541b0610090810s26450ee1ve4cde1b544d23e27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fe57541b0610090810s26450ee1ve4cde1b544d23e27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610090817g7160682bq872cf7612a171f4d@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/9/06, Bruce Mackenzie gm <BMackenzie at alum.mit.edu>
<bmacknz at gmail.com> wrote:
> Option B - The majordomo archives are just directories full of text files,
> so the could be loaded as web pages.  But that does not provide privacy
> and other nice features of archives, without some effort.
If you can get these messages into 'mbox' format (or, if they already
are- but I think you'll probably be slightly better off grouping them
up into mbox files and not having just a giant pile of messages), then
you can drop them in the appropriate place (which I believe is
archives/private/<listname>.mbox/ (<listname>.mbox is a directory,
with a file called <listname>.mbox inside, if the list has been used).

Then, you just need to rebuild the archives using mmarch. Something
like mmarch --wipe <listname> <first mbox file> and then mmarch
<listname> <each of the other mbox files in turn>


-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct  9 17:56:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 08:56:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can users create mailing lists on their
In-Reply-To: <4529ED6E.3070107@dcrocker.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610090856360359a93c6feb@Notebook>

Dave Crocker wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> This *is* a current feature. The mailman site admin (or anyone with
>> command line access to mailman) can set a list creator password with
>> bin/mmsitepass. Then anyone who knows this password can create a list
>> via the web interface.
>
>how does this make the listname registered with the local mail system, 
>as an email mailbox address?


You're correct that this is an issue where manual updates of per-list
aliases are required.

Both Exim and Postfix can be integrated with Mailman so as not to
require this <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/mail-server.html>.
The Postfix integration can be faked to work with Sendmail
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.049.htp>,
and there may be other MTAs that can be integrated to work without
manual aliases, so in many cases, manual aliases are not an issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct  9 18:06:26 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 09:06:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <20061009144939.41959.qmail@web30115.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610090906260140a93c6f06@Notebook>

stupidmail4me wrote:

>Yes, ArchRunner is running...
>30014 ??  I       2:00.15 /usr/local/bin/python2.3
>/usr/local/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner
>--runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
>
>But no, there's nothing in qfiles/archive.


Once again, is there anything in Mailman's error log?

Also, are there any settings relating to archiving in mm_cfg.py? If so,
what are they?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jheim at math.wisc.edu  Mon Oct  9 18:06:54 2006
From: jheim at math.wisc.edu (John Heim)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 11:06:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] automatically subscribe
Message-ID: <086201c6ebbc$f08d5110$4ba65c90@vv507j>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>

> For a different approach see
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-October/053679.html>
> and the other post to which it refers.
>


Thanks Mark.

Again for the archive, I thought I'd include a perl script I wrote to  use 
the url/post approach:

#!/usr/bin/perl

use strict;
  use LWP::UserAgent;

my $mydomain = 'mydomain.com';
my $email_address = 'jheim at mydomain.com';
my $adminpw = 'password';
my $list = 'listname';

# use script name for agent
my $ua = LWP::UserAgent->new;
my ($agent) = $0 =~ m#.*/(.*)$#;
$ua->agent("$agent.1 ");

my $form = {};
$form->{subscribees} = $email_address;
$form->{adminpw} = $adminpw;
$form->{send_welcome_msg_to_this_batch} = 1; # could be 0
$form->{send_notifications_to_list_owner} = 1; # could be 0

my $url = "https://$mydomain/mailman/admin/$list/members/add";
my $res = $ua->post ($url, $form);
#Check the outcome of the response

[...] 



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct  9 18:10:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 09:10:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] transfer archives from majordomo to mailman ?
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00610090817g7160682bq872cf7612a171f4d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610090910120265b43ff1f5@Notebook>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
>Then, you just need to rebuild the archives using mmarch. Something
>like mmarch --wipe <listname> <first mbox file> and then mmarch
><listname> <each of the other mbox files in turn>


Correct except it's bin/arch, not bin/mmarch.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stupidmail4me at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  9 18:37:00 2006
From: stupidmail4me at yahoo.com (stupidmail4me)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 09:37:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610090906260140a93c6f06@Notebook>
Message-ID: <20061009163701.54421.qmail@web30112.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Nothing in the error logs. 

mm_cfg.py:
MTA                     = None
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN     = 'https://%s/'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST      = 'lists.foo.org'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST        = 'lists.foo.org'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

--- Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> stupidmail4me wrote:
> 
> >Yes, ArchRunner is running...
> >30014 ??  I       2:00.15 /usr/local/bin/python2.3
> >/usr/local/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner
> >--runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
> >
> >But no, there's nothing in qfiles/archive.
> 
> 
> Once again, is there anything in Mailman's error
> log?
> 
> Also, are there any settings relating to archiving
> in mm_cfg.py? If so,
> what are they?
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is
> for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use
> your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct  9 19:22:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 10:22:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <20061009163701.54421.qmail@web30112.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061009102241056274f7b0bb@Notebook>

stupidmail4me wrote:

>Nothing in the error logs. 


Is the list's archive attribute set to Yes? (Archiving Options in the
web admin interface)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stupidmail4me at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  9 19:27:10 2006
From: stupidmail4me at yahoo.com (stupidmail4me)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 10:27:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061009102241056274f7b0bb@Notebook>
Message-ID: <20061009172710.29809.qmail@web30104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

It is set to Yes.

--- Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> stupidmail4me wrote:
> 
> >Nothing in the error logs. 
> 
> 
> Is the list's archive attribute set to Yes?
> (Archiving Options in the
> web admin interface)
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is
> for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use
> your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From kim.leandersson at chs.chalmers.se  Mon Oct  9 21:44:29 2006
From: kim.leandersson at chs.chalmers.se (Kim Leandersson)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 21:44:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailman and qmail
Message-ID: <000701c6ebdb$55d622e0$0e9f1081@chs.chalmers.se>

Hi,

Running mailman together with qmail on a server. Thought it worked just fine
because the mails were sent to the members. Now I notice that for example
the messages to the administrator/moderator that there are pending moderator
request isn't sent out. When I check my mail logs I see rows like this.

Oct  9 21:06:28 <server> qmail: 1160420788.602712 delivery 16629: deferral:
Illegal_command:_mailowner/preline:_fatal:_unable_to_copy_input:_broken_pipe
/Failed_to_start_/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman./

Oct  9 21:07:26 <server> qmail: 1160420846.907264 delivery 16637: deferral:
Illegal_command:_mailowner/Failed_to_start_/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman./pr
eline:_fatal:_unable_to_copy_input:_broken_pipe/


My .qmail files looks like this:
.qmail-listname:
|/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post listname

.qmail-listname-admin:
|/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman mailowner listname

.qmail-listname-bounces:
|/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces listname

.qmail-listname-confirm:
|/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm listname

.qmail-listname-join:
|/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join listname

.qmail-listname-leave:
|/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave listname

.qmail-listname-owner:
|/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman mailowner listname

.qmail-listname-request:
|/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman mailcmd listname

.qmail-listname-subscribe:
|/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe listname

.qmail-listname-unsubscribe:
|/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe listname

Any hints on what could be wrong? I'm not that familiar with qmail so I have
a hard time searching for errors.

//kim



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Oct  9 22:51:27 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 15:51:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailman and qmail
In-Reply-To: <000701c6ebdb$55d622e0$0e9f1081@chs.chalmers.se>
References: <Acbr21WyN3AUE/D6SCedEdzfnCAheQ==>
	<000701c6ebdb$55d622e0$0e9f1081@chs.chalmers.se>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610091351g1eaf8ed7v14c2554c83c6cfca@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/9/06, Kim Leandersson <kim.leandersson at chs.chalmers.se> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Running mailman together with qmail on a server. Thought it worked just fine
What version of mailman are you using?

As of recent versions, these should look like:

> .qmail-listname-admin:
> |/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
> /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman mailowner listname

mailman owner listname

> .qmail-listname-request:
> |/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
> /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman mailcmd listname

mailman request listname


-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Oct  9 22:52:02 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 15:52:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailman and qmail
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00610091351g1eaf8ed7v14c2554c83c6cfca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000701c6ebdb$55d622e0$0e9f1081@chs.chalmers.se>
	<6fbe3da00610091351g1eaf8ed7v14c2554c83c6cfca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610091352i4ff93b58jf27d6a576c1da1eb@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/9/06, Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/9/06, Kim Leandersson <kim.leandersson at chs.chalmers.se> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Running mailman together with qmail on a server. Thought it worked just fine
> What version of mailman are you using?
>
> As of recent versions, these should look like:
>
> > .qmail-listname-admin:
> > |/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
> > /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman mailowner listname
>
> mailman owner listname

Rather, 'admin' for listname-admin and 'owner' for listname-owner

>
> > .qmail-listname-request:
> > |/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
> > /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman mailcmd listname
>
> mailman request listname
>
>
> --
> - Patrick Bogen
>


-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From kim.leandersson at chs.chalmers.se  Mon Oct  9 23:10:13 2006
From: kim.leandersson at chs.chalmers.se (Kim Leandersson)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 23:10:13 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [G.U.D.] Re:  Problem with mailman and qmail
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00610091352i4ff93b58jf27d6a576c1da1eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78C3380FC84D724287837FD9A8EFC02F018DFEC6@vera.chs.chalmers.se>

Thanks, must have used an old script to create .qmail-files

//kim 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: gud-bounces at lists.chs.chalmers.se 
> [mailto:gud-bounces at lists.chs.chalmers.se] On Behalf Of Patrick Bogen
> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 10:52 PM
> To: G.U.D.
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [G.U.D.] Re: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailman and qmail
> 
> On 10/9/06, Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 10/9/06, Kim Leandersson <kim.leandersson at chs.chalmers.se> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Running mailman together with qmail on a server. Thought 
> it worked just fine
> > What version of mailman are you using?
> >
> > As of recent versions, these should look like:
> >
> > > .qmail-listname-admin:
> > > |/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
> > > /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman mailowner listname
> >
> > mailman owner listname
> 
> Rather, 'admin' for listname-admin and 'owner' for listname-owner
> 
> >
> > > .qmail-listname-request:
> > > |/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
> > > /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman mailcmd listname
> >
> > mailman request listname
> >
> >
> > --
> > - Patrick Bogen
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> - Patrick Bogen
> 
> 


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Oct 10 04:04:16 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 21:04:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google Code Search
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00610090808p27bf3ab9ncc47f88df54231fa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0610081407450.4080-100000@linuxbox.org>	
	<p06240500c14f7fa4e0d0@172.16.1.122>
	<6fbe3da00610090808p27bf3ab9ncc47f88df54231fa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240500c150ac7fe01a@[64.146.42.99]>

At 10:08 AM -0500 10/9/06, Patrick Bogen wrote:

>  Not trying to be rude;

Of course.

>                         it just seemed to me that for security issues
>  in the code (rather than, say, conceptual security issues), the
>  appropriate place to start would be mailman-developers- and the list
>  members there would be better equipped to know what's going on. But,
>  it could just be that I have a flawed understanding of the exact
>  purpose of our various lists.

For security-related issues, we prefer to route things through the 
appropriately controlled list.  We'd rather not have discussions of 
security-related subjects on a public list.  Once Barry, Tokio, Mark, 
or one of the other core developers approve, the discussion could be 
moved to mailman-developers.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From paulcarter7 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 10 07:45:39 2006
From: paulcarter7 at yahoo.com (Paul Carter)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 22:45:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] tending to moderator requests
Message-ID: <20061010054539.76916.qmail@web31502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi, 

I'm an administrator for a few small mailman lists.  Recently, some
messages in our list have gotten stuck in the moderator phase.  I keep
getting messages about messages that require moderator approval, but
when any of hte moderators or admins goes to evaluate the messages, it
always says: 

  "There are no pending requests."

But I still get emails about these messages every few days.  

Any advice?

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Tue Oct 10 08:02:32 2006
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 08:02:32 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to re-require admin's approval when posting?
Message-ID: <20061010075611.K39604@192.168.11.51>

Hello,

I have once upon a time added a filter to automatically accept messages 
coming from a certain email address to a mailman list. However, now I 
think this is not too wise since the list in question is a closed 
notification-only list, not one in which you can discuss issues. In other 
words, it is easy for someone to forge this address and submit whatever 
they want to the list.

How can I now force mailman to always require admin's approval if a 
message comes from an address already added to the aproval filter?

Thank you for your advice!

--
Zbigniew Szalbot


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 10 17:40:53 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 08:40:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <20061009172710.29809.qmail@web30104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610100840530609072d49b6@Notebook>

stupidmail4me wrote:

>It is set to Yes.
>
>--- Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
>> Is the list's archive attribute set to Yes?
>> (Archiving Options in the
>> web admin interface)


Apply the attached patch to your mailman installation, restart Mailman,
post a message to the list and report the contents of Mailman's
'debug' log.

To apply the patch, cd to the mailman install directory and

patch -p0 < path/to/patch.txt

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: patch.txt
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061010/f85b7f4c/attachment.txt 

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Oct 10 18:04:32 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 11:04:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to re-require admin's approval when posting?
In-Reply-To: <20061010075611.K39604@192.168.11.51>
References: <20061010075611.K39604@192.168.11.51>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610100904j6f5c3641hd36e22522405c970@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/10/06, Zbigniew Szalbot <zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org> wrote:
> How can I now force mailman to always require admin's approval if a
> message comes from an address already added to the aproval filter?

You need to remove whatever filter it is you used; either
accept_this_nonmember, or, if that email address is part of the list,
find it in the membership administration interface and check its
'moderated' bit.

Either that, or setting Emergency Moderation might do the trick.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Tue Oct 10 18:11:01 2006
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:11:01 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to re-require admin's approval when posting?
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00610100904j6f5c3641hd36e22522405c970@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20061010075611.K39604@192.168.11.51>
	<6fbe3da00610100904j6f5c3641hd36e22522405c970@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20061010180918.M56007@192.168.11.51>

Hello again,

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, Patrick Bogen wrote:

> You need to remove whatever filter it is you used; either
> accept_this_nonmember, or, if that email address is part of the list,
> find it in the membership administration interface and check its
> 'moderated' bit.

Thank you very much. I resolved this by setting the user moderated bit. 
Thanks again! I hadn't thought of that before!


Warm regards,

--
Zbigniew Szalbot


From stupidmail4me at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 10 18:54:51 2006
From: stupidmail4me at yahoo.com (stupidmail4me)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 09:54:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610100840530609072d49b6@Notebook>
Message-ID: <20061010165451.40760.qmail@web30110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Nothing. It doesn't create any log and there's no
appropriate entries in any log.

I've checked the headers for the delivered messages
and there's no x-archive headers (they're not being
myteriously added).

--- Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> stupidmail4me wrote:
> 
> >It is set to Yes.
> >
> >--- Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Is the list's archive attribute set to Yes?
> >> (Archiving Options in the
> >> web admin interface)
> 
> 
> Apply the attached patch to your mailman
> installation, restart Mailman,
> post a message to the list and report the contents
> of Mailman's
> 'debug' log.
> 
> To apply the patch, cd to the mailman install
> directory and
> 
> patch -p0 < path/to/patch.txt
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is
> for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use
> your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> > --- Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py	2006-04-15
> 16:56:00.000000000 -0700
> +++ Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py	2006-10-10
> 08:14:14.015625000 -0700
> @@ -22,6 +22,7 @@
>  from Mailman import mm_cfg
>  from Mailman import LockFile
>  from Mailman.Queue.Runner import Runner
> +from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog
>  
>  
>  
> @@ -32,6 +33,7 @@
>          # Support clobber_date, i.e. setting the
> date in the archive to the
>          # received date, not the (potentially
> bogus) Date: header of the
>          # original message.
> +        syslog('debug', 'ArchRunner processing %s',
> msg.get('message-id'))
>          clobber = 0
>          originaldate = msg.get('date')
>          receivedtime =
> formatdate(msgdata['received_time'])
> --- Mailman/Handlers/ToArchive.py	2006-04-15
> 16:56:08.000000000 -0700
> +++ Mailman/Handlers/ToArchive.py	2006-10-10
> 08:14:47.453125000 -0700
> @@ -22,10 +22,12 @@
>  
>  from Mailman import mm_cfg
>  from Mailman.Queue.sbcache import get_switchboard
> +from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog
>  
>  
>  
>  def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
> +    syslog('debug', 'ToArchive invoked %s',
> msg.get('message-id'))
>      # short circuits
>      if msgdata.get('isdigest') or not
> mlist.archive:
>          return
> @@ -35,6 +37,7 @@
>      if msg.has_key('x-no-archive') or
> msg.get('x-archive', '').lower() == 'no':
>          return
>      # Send the message to the archiver queue
> +    syslog('debug', 'ToArchive queueing %s',
> msg.get('message-id'))
>      archq = get_switchboard(mm_cfg.ARCHQUEUE_DIR)
>      # Send the message to the queue
>      archq.enqueue(msg, msgdata)
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From adamsca at gmail.com  Tue Oct 10 19:35:58 2006
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 10:35:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail forwarding loop
Message-ID: <27572d930610101035k6e8c3becp77bf0e1861744a2b@mail.gmail.com>

I am running the current version of Posfix with the current version of
Mailman.  This may actually be a Postfix question, but I have queried
the postfix-users lis and I think they are weary of hearing this
question.

One subscriber is receiving all list messages, but when she posts to the
'listname' list, she gets this:

Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.

     Subject:  MemberClicks
     Sent:     10/9/2006 3:24 PM

The following recipient(s) could not be reached:

     listname at mydomain.state.or.us on 10/9/2006 2:52 PM
           The e-mail system was unable to deliver the message, but
did not report a specific reason.  Check the address and try again.
If it still fails, contact your system administrator.

           < mydomain.state.or.us #5.0.0 X-Postfix; mail forwarding
loop for    listname at mydomain.state.or.us>


I checked the Postfix logs and see this:

Oct  9 14:51:37 gatsby postfix/nqmgr[2397]: C24354405E:
from=<user at email.com>, size=5680, nrcpt=1 (queue active)

Oct  9 14:51:37 gatsby postfix/local[21553]: C24354405E:
to=<listname at email.com>, relay=local, delay=1,
status=bounced (mail forwarding loop for
listname at mydomain.state.or.us)

I have been reading other information about mail forwarding errors in
Postfix, but none of them seem to apply here. Can someone give me some
tips as to what is happening? This is a small list and the list is not
subscribed to itself.



-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 10 21:48:52 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 12:48:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <20061010165451.40760.qmail@web30110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610101248520890f703a7ce@Notebook>

stupidmail4me wrote:

>Nothing. It doesn't create any log and there's no
>appropriate entries in any log.


If you applied the patch and then restarted Mailman and you get no
'debug' log with any messages, either the ToArchive handler is not in
the pipeline, or you're not looking in the right directory for the
logs.

Does the 'qrunner' log show entries from the restart?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 11 01:15:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:15:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] tending to moderator requests
In-Reply-To: <20061010054539.76916.qmail@web31502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610101615010671197084a0@Notebook>

Paul Carter wrote:
>
>I'm an administrator for a few small mailman lists.  Recently, some
>messages in our list have gotten stuck in the moderator phase.  I keep
>getting messages about messages that require moderator approval, but
>when any of hte moderators or admins goes to evaluate the messages, it
>always says: 
>
>  "There are no pending requests."
>
>But I still get emails about these messages every few days.  


The usual cause of this is an 'old', inactive Mailman installation
somewhere with a crontab still running its cron/checkdbs job.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 11 01:37:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:37:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail forwarding loop
In-Reply-To: <27572d930610101035k6e8c3becp77bf0e1861744a2b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610101637440312506b93c4@Notebook>

Christopher Adams wrote:
>
>One subscriber is receiving all list messages,


Then I take it that other users have no trouble posting.


>but when she posts to the
>'listname' list, she gets this:
>
>Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.
>
>     Subject:  MemberClicks
>     Sent:     10/9/2006 3:24 PM
>
>The following recipient(s) could not be reached:
>
>     listname at mydomain.state.or.us on 10/9/2006 2:52 PM
>           The e-mail system was unable to deliver the message, but
>did not report a specific reason.  Check the address and try again.
>If it still fails, contact your system administrator.
>
>           < mydomain.state.or.us #5.0.0 X-Postfix; mail forwarding
>loop for    listname at mydomain.state.or.us>
>
>
>I checked the Postfix logs and see this:
>
>Oct  9 14:51:37 gatsby postfix/nqmgr[2397]: C24354405E:
>from=<user at email.com>, size=5680, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>
>Oct  9 14:51:37 gatsby postfix/local[21553]: C24354405E:
>to=<listname at email.com>, relay=local, delay=1,
>status=bounced (mail forwarding loop for
>listname at mydomain.state.or.us)


So the postfix log is at least consistent with the message the user
receives.


>I have been reading other information about mail forwarding errors in
>Postfix, but none of them seem to apply here. Can someone give me some
>tips as to what is happening? This is a small list and the list is not
>subscribed to itself.


Even if the list were subscribed to itself, I don't think it would
cause this since that fact wouldn't be evident until delivery of the
post from Mailman, and Mailman has loop protection (the X-BeenThere:
header) to prevent it from being sent a second time.

I think you are correct in thinking this is a Postfix question, and I
don't know the answer, but I think it must have to do with either the
one user's domain or the number or identity of relays (hence Received:
headers) that the post passes through on the way from her MUA to the
list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tomnaugh at gmail.com  Wed Oct 11 01:50:05 2006
From: tomnaugh at gmail.com (Tom Kavanaugh)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:50:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Index Listing of mail lists
Message-ID: <98a90c220610101650v7aef92c9pe04a7f171332c17e@mail.gmail.com>

I have been using mailman at my workplace for almost a year now, and it is
working very well for us.
The number of lists are already over 50 and still growing.

One of the features I would like is to index list the mail list names.
Right now, the lists are sorted alphabetically and users have to scroll over
screens to get to lists starting with say "H".
If there is a way to setup a A-Z index hortizontally above the List name -
Description, it would be great.

Any code hacks for this feature?

Thanks
\Tom


From wjoyce at uvi.edu  Wed Oct 11 03:05:58 2006
From: wjoyce at uvi.edu (Joyce, Wesley K.)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:05:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems - Serious
Message-ID: <B317D254252B7F488367B5BD10F725230186FF18@exchange01.uvi.edu>

I am getting concerned about the stability of mailman.  About 3 weeks ago I encountered the bug that required I change Bouncer.py line. time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y', day + (0,)*6)) to time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y', day + (0,0,0,0,1,0))).

Since then, I have started encountering errors like this

Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) post to stxstudents from ldimeo at fake.dom, size=11496, message-id=<B317D254252B7F488367B5BD10F725230187B6E5 at mail01.fake.dom>, 41 failures

[root at mahi mailman]# tail smtp
Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) <B317D254252B7F488367B5BD10F725230187B6E5 at mail01.fake.dom> smtp for 41 recips, completed in 22.191 seconds
[root at mahi mailman]# tail smtp-failure
Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to aflynn at student.umass.edu failed with code -1: Server not connected
Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to hay1020 at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to jjackso at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to hfinch at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to mci0207 at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to col6656 at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to can1387 at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to jwebste at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to bry0769 at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to scox at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected

smtp-failure

Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to jephrai at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
, 'Interrupted system call')
Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to lrichar at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
, 'Interrupted system call')
Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to tchalle at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
, 'Interrupted system call')
Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to dconnor at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
, 'Interrupted system call')
Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to ewhitem at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
, 'Interrupted system call')
Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to mmyers at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4,
 'Interrupted system call')
Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to cenriqu at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
, 'Interrupted system call')
Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to dfontai at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
, 'Interrupted system call')
Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to afrett at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4,
 'Interrupted system call')
 
My MTA, which is postfix and on the localhost, and nothing has changed on that end.  I really don't know where to begin.  My searches on the archives have turned up solutions that are not working for me.  How to I troubleshoot thing?


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Oct 11 03:49:57 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 10:49:57 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Index Listing of mail lists
In-Reply-To: <98a90c220610101650v7aef92c9pe04a7f171332c17e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <98a90c220610101650v7aef92c9pe04a7f171332c17e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17708.19909.978449.862563@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Reply-To set to Mailman-Users.

Tom Kavanaugh writes:

 > If there is a way to setup a A-Z index hortizontally above the List name -
 > Description, it would be great.
 > 
 > Any code hacks for this feature?

This feature is already in the Member List page.  Since Mailman is
free software, reusing that code doesn't even count as stealing!<wink>

Mailman Developers: Is the web code set up so that so that admins
could fairly easily assemble these UI widgets into a page that suits
their usage?  Or would that be a major refactoring?  Sorta like
reimplementing Plone, I guess, but we really don't want to put "import
plone" at the top!

What I was thinking is that there could be a page generator pipeline,
similar to the list processor.  Of course the objects we want to
generate pages from (member lists, moderation queues, etc) would have
to grow appropriate interfaces -- sounds like work! but it would be
way cool.



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 11 04:40:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 19:40:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems - Serious
In-Reply-To: <B317D254252B7F488367B5BD10F725230186FF18@exchange01.uvi.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602006101019402300008cc9af57@Notebook>

Joyce, Wesley K. wrote:

>I am getting concerned about the stability of mailman.  About 3 weeks ago I encountered the bug that required I change Bouncer.py line. time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y', day + (0,)*6)) to time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y', day + (0,0,0,0,1,0))).
>
>Since then, I have started encountering errors like this


The change above has nothing to do with the problems below except that
the fact that you had to make the above change suggests you upgraded
Python from pre 2.1.4 to 2.1.4 and that may be related or some other
change you made at that time may be related.


>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) post to stxstudents from ldimeo at fake.dom, size=11496, message-id=<B317D254252B7F488367B5BD10F725230187B6E5 at mail01.fake.dom>, 41 failures
>
>[root at mahi mailman]# tail smtp
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) <B317D254252B7F488367B5BD10F725230187B6E5 at mail01.fake.dom> smtp for 41 recips, completed in 22.191 seconds
>[root at mahi mailman]# tail smtp-failure
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to aflynn at student.umass.edu failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to hay1020 at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to jjackso at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to hfinch at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to mci0207 at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to col6656 at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to can1387 at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to jwebste at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to bry0769 at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to scox at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>
>smtp-failure
>
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to jephrai at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
>, 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to lrichar at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
>, 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to tchalle at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
>, 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to dconnor at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
>, 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to ewhitem at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
>, 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to mmyers at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4,
> 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to cenriqu at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
>, 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to dfontai at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
>, 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to afrett at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4,
> 'Interrupted system call')
> 
>My MTA, which is postfix and on the localhost, and nothing has changed on that end.  I really don't know where to begin.  My searches on the archives have turned up solutions that are not working for me.  How to I troubleshoot thing?


The above messages seem to say that you are losing the connection to
your MTA. The underlying problems are being detected in Python's
smtplib. You can get more debugging information in Mailman's 'error'
log by altering Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py as follows. Find

    def __connect(self):
        self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
        self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
        self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION

and add a line so it becomes

    def __connect(self):
        self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
        self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1)
        self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
        self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION

Then restart Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From wjoyce at uvi.edu  Wed Oct 11 04:42:18 2006
From: wjoyce at uvi.edu (Joyce, Wesley K.)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 22:42:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems - Serious
References: <PC17602006101019402300008cc9af57@Notebook>
Message-ID: <B317D254252B7F488367B5BD10F725230186FF19@exchange01.uvi.edu>

Thanks for the prompt response.  For further analysis, here are the versions I am running.
 
[root at mahi ~]# rpm -qa mailman
mailman-2.1.5-35.fc4
[root at mahi ~]# rpm -qa python
python-2.4.1-2
[root at mahi ~]# 

I will add the line
self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1)
restart mailman 
 
and further inspect the logs.  Thanks for the step.
 
BTW, should I upgrade python or mailman, or try to resolve this first?

________________________________

From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Tue 10/10/2006 10:40 PM
To: Joyce, Wesley K.; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems - Serious



Joyce, Wesley K. wrote:

>I am getting concerned about the stability of mailman.  About 3 weeks ago I encountered the bug that required I change Bouncer.py line. time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y', day + (0,)*6)) to time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y', day + (0,0,0,0,1,0))).
>
>Since then, I have started encountering errors like this


The change above has nothing to do with the problems below except that
the fact that you had to make the above change suggests you upgraded
Python from pre 2.1.4 to 2.1.4 and that may be related or some other
change you made at that time may be related.


>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) post to stxstudents from ldimeo at fake.dom, size=11496, message-id=<B317D254252B7F488367B5BD10F725230187B6E5 at mail01.fake.dom>, 41 failures
>
>[root at mahi mailman]# tail smtp
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) <B317D254252B7F488367B5BD10F725230187B6E5 at mail01.fake.dom> smtp for 41 recips, completed in 22.191 seconds
>[root at mahi mailman]# tail smtp-failure
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to aflynn at student.umass.edu failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to hay1020 at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to jjackso at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to hfinch at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to mci0207 at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to col6656 at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to can1387 at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to jwebste at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to bry0769 at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to scox at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>
>smtp-failure
>
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to jephrai at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
>, 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to lrichar at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
>, 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to tchalle at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
>, 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to dconnor at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
>, 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to ewhitem at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
>, 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to mmyers at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4,
> 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to cenriqu at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
>, 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to dfontai at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
>, 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to afrett at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4,
> 'Interrupted system call')
>
>My MTA, which is postfix and on the localhost, and nothing has changed on that end.  I really don't know where to begin.  My searches on the archives have turned up solutions that are not working for me.  How to I troubleshoot thing?


The above messages seem to say that you are losing the connection to
your MTA. The underlying problems are being detected in Python's
smtplib. You can get more debugging information in Mailman's 'error'
log by altering Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py as follows. Find

    def __connect(self):
        self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
        self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
        self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION

and add a line so it becomes

    def __connect(self):
        self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
        self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1)
        self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
        self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION

Then restart Mailman.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan





From wjoyce at uvi.edu  Wed Oct 11 04:51:20 2006
From: wjoyce at uvi.edu (Joyce, Wesley K.)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 22:51:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [SPAM] - Re: Mailman Problems - Serious - Found
	word(s) list error in the Text body
References: <PC17602006101019402300008cc9af57@Notebook>
	<B317D254252B7F488367B5BD10F725230186FF19@exchange01.uvi.edu>
Message-ID: <B317D254252B7F488367B5BD10F725230186FF1A@exchange01.uvi.edu>

Adding this debuglevel immediatly revealed some useful information.
 
Postfix is returning '421 mahi.fake.com Error: too many errors', apparently after to many failures in recipient.  I recently purged lots of dead accounts that are obviously still listed in my mailing lists.  These seem to correspond to the Server not connected error. What's the best way to address this?
 
send: 'rcpt TO:<ste1232 at fake.com>\r\n'
reply: '550 <ste1232 at fake.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table\r\n'
reply: retcode (550); Msg: <ste1232 at fake.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table
send: 'rcpt TO:<aflynn at student.umass.edu>\r\n'
reply: '250 Ok\r\n'
reply: retcode (250); Msg: Ok
send: 'rcpt TO:<hay1020 at fake.com>\r\n'
reply: '550 <hay1020 at fake.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table\r\n'
reply: retcode (550); Msg: <hay1020 at fake.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table
send: 'rcpt TO:<jjackso at fake.com>\r\n'
reply: '250 Ok\r\n'
reply: retcode (250); Msg: Ok
send: 'rcpt TO:<hfinch at fake.com>\r\n'
reply: '250 Ok\r\n'
reply: retcode (250); Msg: Ok
send: 'rcpt TO:<mci0207 at fake.com>\r\n'
reply: '550 <mci0207 at fake.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table\r\n'
reply: retcode (550); Msg: <mci0207 at fake.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table
send: 'rcpt TO:<col6656 at fake.com>\r\n'
reply: '250 Ok\r\n'
reply: retcode (250); Msg: Ok
send: 'rcpt TO:<can1387 at fake.com>\r\n'
reply: '550 <can1387 at fake.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table\r\n'
reply: retcode (550); Msg: <can1387 at fake.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table
send: 'rcpt TO:<jwebste at fake.com>\r\n'
reply: '421 mahi.fake.com Error: too many errors\r\n'
reply: retcode (421); Msg: mahi.fake.com Error: too many errors
send: 'rcpt TO:<bry0769 at fake.com>\r\n'
send: 'quit\r\n'

 

________________________________

From: mailman-users-bounces+wjoyce=uvi.edu at python.org on behalf of Joyce, Wesley K.
Sent: Tue 10/10/2006 10:42 PM
To: Mark Sapiro; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [SPAM] - Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems - Serious - Found word(s) list error in the Text body



Thanks for the prompt response.  For further analysis, here are the versions I am running.

[root at mahi ~]# rpm -qa mailman
mailman-2.1.5-35.fc4
[root at mahi ~]# rpm -qa python
python-2.4.1-2
[root at mahi ~]#

I will add the line
self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1)
restart mailman

and further inspect the logs.  Thanks for the step.

BTW, should I upgrade python or mailman, or try to resolve this first?

________________________________

From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Tue 10/10/2006 10:40 PM
To: Joyce, Wesley K.; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems - Serious



Joyce, Wesley K. wrote:

>I am getting concerned about the stability of mailman.  About 3 weeks ago I encountered the bug that required I change Bouncer.py line. time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y', day + (0,)*6)) to time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y', day + (0,0,0,0,1,0))).
>
>Since then, I have started encountering errors like this


The change above has nothing to do with the problems below except that
the fact that you had to make the above change suggests you upgraded
Python from pre 2.1.4 to 2.1.4 and that may be related or some other
change you made at that time may be related.


>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) post to stxstudents from ldimeo at fake.dom, size=11496, message-id=<B317D254252B7F488367B5BD10F725230187B6E5 at mail01.fake.dom>, 41 failures
>
>[root at mahi mailman]# tail smtp
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) <B317D254252B7F488367B5BD10F725230187B6E5 at mail01.fake.dom> smtp for 41 recips, completed in 22.191 seconds
>[root at mahi mailman]# tail smtp-failure
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to aflynn at student.umass.edu failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to hay1020 at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to jjackso at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to hfinch at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to mci0207 at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to col6656 at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to can1387 at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to jwebste at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to bry0769 at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>Oct 10 20:55:55 2006 (26960) delivery to scox at fake.dom failed with code -1: Server not connected
>
>smtp-failure
>
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to jephrai at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
>, 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to lrichar at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
>, 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to tchalle at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
>, 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to dconnor at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
>, 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to ewhitem at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
>, 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to mmyers at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4,
> 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to cenriqu at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
>, 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to dfontai at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4
>, 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 08 04:09:22 2006 (10608) delivery to afrett at fake.dom failed with code -1: (4,
> 'Interrupted system call')
>
>My MTA, which is postfix and on the localhost, and nothing has changed on that end.  I really don't know where to begin.  My searches on the archives have turned up solutions that are not working for me.  How to I troubleshoot thing?


The above messages seem to say that you are losing the connection to
your MTA. The underlying problems are being detected in Python's
smtplib. You can get more debugging information in Mailman's 'error'
log by altering Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py as follows. Find

    def __connect(self):
        self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
        self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
        self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION

and add a line so it becomes

    def __connect(self):
        self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
        self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1)
        self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
        self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION

Then restart Mailman.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
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http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
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Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
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Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp




From stupidmail4me at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 11 05:05:50 2006
From: stupidmail4me at yahoo.com (stupidmail4me)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:05:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610101248520890f703a7ce@Notebook>
Message-ID: <20061011030550.2149.qmail@web30108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes, the qrunner log shows the shutdown and startup
from mailmanctl. I've also checked and ToArchive is in
the pipeline (it's not commented out or changed in any
conf file). This is why it's so odd.

--- Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> stupidmail4me wrote:
> 
> >Nothing. It doesn't create any log and there's no
> >appropriate entries in any log.
> 
> 
> If you applied the patch and then restarted Mailman
> and you get no
> 'debug' log with any messages, either the ToArchive
> handler is not in
> the pipeline, or you're not looking in the right
> directory for the
> logs.
> 
> Does the 'qrunner' log show entries from the
> restart?
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is
> for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use
> your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 11 05:07:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:07:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [SPAM] - Re: Mailman Problems - Serious - Found
	word(s) list error in the Text body
In-Reply-To: <B317D254252B7F488367B5BD10F725230186FF1A@exchange01.uvi.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610102007120421a4b2a971@Notebook>

Joyce, Wesley K. wrote:
>
>Adding this debuglevel immediatly revealed some useful information.
>
>Postfix is returning '421 mahi.fake.com Error: too many errors', apparently after to many failures in recipient.  I recently purged lots of dead accounts that are obviously still listed in my mailing lists.  These seem to correspond to the Server not connected error. What's the best way to address this?


Do you have bounce processing enabled for the lists? If bounce
processing is enabled with appropriate parameters, the dead addresses
will soon be disabled and then unsubscribed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From wjoyce at uvi.edu  Wed Oct 11 05:08:49 2006
From: wjoyce at uvi.edu (Joyce, Wesley K.)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 23:08:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems - Serious
References: <PC1760200610102007120421a4b2a971@Notebook>
Message-ID: <B317D254252B7F488367B5BD10F725230186FF1B@exchange01.uvi.edu>

Yes I do, but am I correct in thinking the bounce processing isn't going to happen because postfix is killing the session from mailman before it completes?
 
I am know considering settings smtpd_hard_error_limit to something like 5000.
 
Got clues of the postfix smtpd_hard_error_limit here
http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/postfix/2005-01/0920.html
http://groups.google.com/group/mailing.postfix.users/browse_frm/thread/d89d06d97b03cb5c/c8f1f29fdf752983%23c8f1f29fdf752983

________________________________

From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Tue 10/10/2006 11:07 PM
To: Joyce, Wesley K.; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [SPAM] - Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems - Serious - Found word(s) list error in the Text body



Joyce, Wesley K. wrote:
>
>Adding this debuglevel immediatly revealed some useful information.
>
>Postfix is returning '421 mahi.fake.com Error: too many errors', apparently after to many failures in recipient.  I recently purged lots of dead accounts that are obviously still listed in my mailing lists.  These seem to correspond to the Server not connected error. What's the best way to address this?


Do you have bounce processing enabled for the lists? If bounce
processing is enabled with appropriate parameters, the dead addresses
will soon be disabled and then unsubscribed.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan





From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 11 05:31:07 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:31:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems - Serious
In-Reply-To: <B317D254252B7F488367B5BD10F725230186FF1B@exchange01.uvi.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610102031070062da258c85@Notebook>

Joyce, Wesley K. wrote:
>
>Yes I do, but am I correct in thinking the bounce processing isn't going to happen because postfix is killing the session from mailman before it completes?


I suspect you are correct in this. It depends on what SMTPDirect sees
in the return from the SMTP transaction, but the smtp-failure log
messages seem to say it just sees the connection loss.

You could try setting

VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1

in mm_cfg.py. This will cause each user's delivery to be a separate
SMTP transaction with only one recipient which may avoid the 421
errors and will return the 550 errors for most if not all the bad
addresses.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Oct 11 05:30:03 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 22:30:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Index Listing of mail lists
In-Reply-To: <17708.19909.978449.862563@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <98a90c220610101650v7aef92c9pe04a7f171332c17e@mail.gmail.com>
	<17708.19909.978449.862563@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240502c1521579199d@[192.168.1.102]>

At 10:49 AM +0900 10/11/06, <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:

>  Mailman Developers: Is the web code set up so that so that admins
>  could fairly easily assemble these UI widgets into a page that suits
>  their usage?

Nope.  It's all hard-coded.

>                Or would that be a major refactoring?  Sorta like
>  reimplementing Plone, I guess, but we really don't want to put "import
>  plone" at the top!

Something like that, or maybe re-implementing Zope.

>  What I was thinking is that there could be a page generator pipeline,
>  similar to the list processor.  Of course the objects we want to
>  generate pages from (member lists, moderation queues, etc) would have
>  to grow appropriate interfaces -- sounds like work! but it would be
>  way cool.

Yeah, way cool.

We can't wait to see the code you're going to contribute to do this.  ;)

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 11 05:40:30 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:40:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <20061011030550.2149.qmail@web30108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610102040300718a4b2aaac@Notebook>

stupidmail4me wrote:

>Yes, the qrunner log shows the shutdown and startup
>from mailmanctl. I've also checked and ToArchive is in
>the pipeline (it's not commented out or changed in any
>conf file). This is why it's so odd.


The patch I posted causes ToArchive to write the 'ToArchive invoked
<message-id>' message to the debug log as the very first thing it
does. Therefore, the absence of this log message seems to say it isn't
being invoked at all.

Does the list have a 'pipeline' attribute? (Run 'bin/dumpdb
lists/listname/config.pck' to check.)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From wjoyce at uvi.edu  Wed Oct 11 05:38:21 2006
From: wjoyce at uvi.edu (Joyce, Wesley K.)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 23:38:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems - Serious
References: <PC1760200610102031070062da258c85@Notebook>
Message-ID: <B317D254252B7F488367B5BD10F725230186FF1C@exchange01.uvi.edu>

Ahh, this is very useful.  I will try this setting and see how it works.
 
Thanks.

________________________________

From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Tue 10/10/2006 11:31 PM
To: Joyce, Wesley K.; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems - Serious



Joyce, Wesley K. wrote:
>
>Yes I do, but am I correct in thinking the bounce processing isn't going to happen because postfix is killing the session from mailman before it completes?


I suspect you are correct in this. It depends on what SMTPDirect sees
in the return from the SMTP transaction, but the smtp-failure log
messages seem to say it just sees the connection loss.

You could try setting

VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1

in mm_cfg.py. This will cause each user's delivery to be a separate
SMTP transaction with only one recipient which may avoid the 421
errors and will return the 550 errors for most if not all the bad
addresses.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan





From tomnaugh at gmail.com  Wed Oct 11 05:56:57 2006
From: tomnaugh at gmail.com (Tom Kavanaugh)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:56:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Index Listing of mail lists
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c1521579199d@192.168.1.102>
References: <98a90c220610101650v7aef92c9pe04a7f171332c17e@mail.gmail.com>
	<17708.19909.978449.862563@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240502c1521579199d@192.168.1.102>
Message-ID: <98a90c220610102056t2dc08057q7fff39ccd57caf2c@mail.gmail.com>

I am glad that the mailman developer community are aware of this feature.

\Tom

On 10/10/06, Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:
>
> At 10:49 AM +0900 10/11/06, <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
>
> >  Mailman Developers: Is the web code set up so that so that admins
> >  could fairly easily assemble these UI widgets into a page that suits
> >  their usage?
>
> Nope.  It's all hard-coded.
>
> >                Or would that be a major refactoring?  Sorta like
> >  reimplementing Plone, I guess, but we really don't want to put "import
> >  plone" at the top!
>
> Something like that, or maybe re-implementing Zope.
>
> >  What I was thinking is that there could be a page generator pipeline,
> >  similar to the list processor.  Of course the objects we want to
> >  generate pages from (member lists, moderation queues, etc) would have
> >  to grow appropriate interfaces -- sounds like work! but it would be
> >  way cool.
>
> Yeah, way cool.
>
> We can't wait to see the code you're going to contribute to do this.  ;)
>
> --
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
> Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.
>


From saloneneric at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 11 12:59:58 2006
From: saloneneric at hotmail.com (Eric Salonen)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 20:59:58 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I edit the footer-info so that it affects
	ALL emails sent outof my create
Message-ID: <BAY104-F178FAAC292154250016BA7A6140@phx.gbl>

Hi everybody,

This has been probably asked a bunch of times, but I could not find the 
answer anywhere.

So the question is:

How do I edit the footer of the emails that are sent to the subscribers?

I have a whole bunch of mailing lists (about 50-100) so modifying the footer 
from the web GUI would be a very slow process. I need to add some text so 
that it adds the text to all mailing lists.

I found the following file in my Mailman Home:

Mailman/Defaults.py

But according to this file, it only modifies the footer for new created 
mailing lists, my need is to modify existing lists.

Im using Mailman version 2.1.7.

Thanks to anybody who answers.

KR,
--

Eric Salonen
Customer Support Officer
Direct: +358 3 630 0215

AMBIENTIA LTD. - DIGITAL BUSINESS AWARENESS

Visam?entie 35, FIN-13100 H?meenlinna, Finland
Tel. +358 3 630 020, Fax +358 3 630 0260, http://www.ambientia.net/




From wjoyce at uvi.edu  Wed Oct 11 13:08:29 2006
From: wjoyce at uvi.edu (Joyce, Wesley K.)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 07:08:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Proceeding with caution - Upgrading mailman using
	rpm via yum
Message-ID: <B317D254252B7F488367B5BD10F725230186FF1F@exchange01.uvi.edu>

Greetings, what action should I take pre and post upgrading mailman from 2.1.5.35 to 2.1.8 using YUM?  What specifically should I back up, and do I need to edit or run any commands after the upgrade.  I am nervous about doing this upgrade, cause it would really hurt if mailman got broken.

Fedora Core 4, Linux mahi.uvi.edu 2.6.14-1.1653_FC4smp #1 SMP Tue Dec 13 21:46:01 EST 2005 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
mailman-2.1.5-35.fc4
python-2.4.1-2




From Peter.Soccar at bibalex.org  Wed Oct 11 13:52:58 2006
From: Peter.Soccar at bibalex.org (Peter Soccar)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 13:52:58 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] where is creator.py?
Message-ID: <AAA84820D5874F46B68C394C41FBBB22016CB0FE@SEXGW3K-H2010.local.bibalex.dom>

I'm using mailman 2.1.7 installed from rpm on fedora 5, as I understand
the default path of adm.py and creator.py should be /etc/mailman 

I found adm.py but not creator.py, could it be in any other location?

 

 

Best Regards  

 

------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Soccar
Software Engineer
ICT Department, Web  Administration Unit
Bibliotheca Alexandrina 
P.O. Box 138, Chatby
Alexandria 21526, Egypt 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Phone:+(203) 4839999 , Ext.:1408
Fax:+(203) 482 0405:
E-Mail: peter.soccar at bibalex.org <mailto:peter.soccar at bibalex.org> 

Website: www.bibalex.org <http://www.bibalex.org/> 

 



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Oct 11 14:18:07 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 07:18:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Proceeding with caution - Upgrading mailman
 using rpm via yum
In-Reply-To: <B317D254252B7F488367B5BD10F725230186FF1F@exchange01.uvi.edu>
References: <B317D254252B7F488367B5BD10F725230186FF1F@exchange01.uvi.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240500c15290629f5d@[192.168.1.102]>

At 7:08 AM -0400 10/11/06, Joyce, Wesley K. wrote:

>  Greetings, what action should I take pre and post upgrading
>  mailman from 2.1.5.35 to 2.1.8 using YUM?

First off, we have only three-digit version numbers.  So, 2.1.5.35 is 
not one of our versions, and we have no idea what may have been done 
to this code.

Secondly, we are not the people who created your binary package 
management system, so we have no idea how this system may interact 
badly with our software, or in what weird ways things may fail.


These kinds of questions should be asked of those people who 
developed your binary package management system -- at least so far as 
it pertains to whatever they may have done to our code.

>                                             What specifically
>  should I back up, and do I need to edit or run any commands
>  after the upgrade.  I am nervous about doing this upgrade,
>  cause it would really hurt if mailman got broken.

Again, we didn't create those versions, so we don't know precisely 
what to tell you to backup.  If you had used our canonical source 
version, then I'd tell you to back up all of /usr/local/mailman, and 
that would get all Mailman configuration files, all the list 
archives, all the stuff currently sitting in one of the queue 
directories, etc....

But your binary packaged version probably stores stuff in different 
places, so you'd want to find out what those are and then back them 
up.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Oct 11 14:19:56 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 07:19:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] where is creator.py?
In-Reply-To: <AAA84820D5874F46B68C394C41FBBB22016CB0FE@SEXGW3K-H2010.local.bibalex.dom>
References: <AAA84820D5874F46B68C394C41FBBB22016CB0FE@SEXGW3K-H2010.local.bibalex.dom>
Message-ID: <p06240501c152918fe60b@[192.168.1.102]>

At 1:52 PM +0200 10/11/06, Peter Soccar wrote:

>  I'm using mailman 2.1.7 installed from rpm on fedora 5, as I understand
>  the default path of adm.py and creator.py should be /etc/mailman

That's not where our code would have put it, so you must be using a 
binary packaged version.  We may be able to help you with problems 
that are specific to our code, but we can't help you with anything 
that may have been done to our code once it was taken by someone else 
and turned into a binary package.

>  I found adm.py but not creator.py, could it be in any other location?

Dunno.  You should ask the people who created your binary package.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From seeleman at gse.upenn.edu  Wed Oct 11 15:59:51 2006
From: seeleman at gse.upenn.edu (Todd Seeleman)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 09:59:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2 questions
Message-ID: <452CF8D7.1030207@gse.upenn.edu>


Greetings,

     I tried the FAQ and searchable archive but neither helped.

1.  Can I select unsubscribe for all members of a list from the gui 
without having to click everyone?  Currently I list_members to a file 
and batch remove using that file or I use remove_members -all <listname>.

2.  How can I trim or delete archives?  I assume cleanarch does that but 
when I run it I get

 > hostname# cleanarch
 > Traceback (most recent call last):
 >   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/cleanarch", line 172, in ?
 >     main()
 >   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/cleanarch", line 122, in main
 >     line = sys.stdin.readline()

Thanks,

Todd Seeleman


-- 

  ***************************************************************
  Todd Seeleman, Systems Analyst
  Penn Graduate School of Education
  3440 Market Street, Rm 477        email: seeleman at gse.upenn.edu
  Philadelphia, PA. 19104-3325      phone: 215-573-8378
  ***************************************************************


______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email 
______________________________________________________________________


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 11 16:41:04 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 07:41:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] where is creator.py?
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c152918fe60b@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610110741040328c04f342c@Notebook>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 1:52 PM +0200 10/11/06, Peter Soccar wrote:
>
>>  I'm using mailman 2.1.7 installed from rpm on fedora 5, as I understand
>>  the default path of adm.py and creator.py should be /etc/mailman
>
>That's not where our code would have put it, so you must be using a 
>binary packaged version.  We may be able to help you with problems 
>that are specific to our code, but we can't help you with anything 
>that may have been done to our code once it was taken by someone else 
>and turned into a binary package.


Brad is correct in what he says, but you may find
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2004-October/017343.html>
to be helpful.

Also, what are you looking for? Our code contains neither adm.py nor
creator.py. If you are looking for the web CGI scripts, they are in
Mailman/Cgi/ and the admin interface is admin.py and the list create
interface is create.py.

If you are looking for the site and list creator password, the files
are adm.pw and creator.pw, (not .py) and they are in the data/
directory. if there is no creator.pw file, a list creator password has
not been established.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 11 17:07:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:07:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I edit the footer-info so that it
	affectsALL emails sent outof my create
In-Reply-To: <BAY104-F178FAAC292154250016BA7A6140@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610110807340656c3113112@Notebook>

Eric Salonen wrote:
>
>I have a whole bunch of mailing lists (about 50-100) so modifying the footer 
>from the web GUI would be a very slow process. I need to add some text so 
>that it adds the text to all mailing lists.


You can do this with a bin/withlist script or by running
bin/config_list over all lists in a shell script with input containing
just the new footer.

There's lots of discussion of both methods in the archives of this
list. See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-September/052983.html>
for one example of scripting config_list.


>I found the following file in my Mailman Home:
>
>Mailman/Defaults.py
>
>But according to this file, it only modifies the footer for new created 
>mailing lists, my need is to modify existing lists.


Don't edit Defaults.py.  Override what you want to change in mm_cfg.py.
See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.021.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 11 17:41:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:41:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2 questions
In-Reply-To: <452CF8D7.1030207@gse.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020061011084137021896fb6a3f@Notebook>

Todd Seeleman wrote:
>
>1.  Can I select unsubscribe for all members of a list from the gui 
>without having to click everyone?  Currently I list_members to a file 
>and batch remove using that file or I use remove_members -all <listname>.


No. Your current methods are the ones for this. I think the closest you
can come from the gui is to copy addresses from the roster page and
paste them into Mass Removal, but you probably need an intermediate
edit step.

You can use one of the web scripts
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>
to get the list for Mass Removal and you might be able to script the
whole process, butthere's no existing script AFAIK.


>2.  How can I trim or delete archives?  I assume cleanarch does that but 
>when I run it I get
>
> > hostname# cleanarch
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/cleanarch", line 172, in ?
> >     main()
> >   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/cleanarch", line 122, in main
> >     line = sys.stdin.readline()


No. cleanarch does something else entirely. See 'bin/cleanarch --help'

Assuming you want to continue archiving the list, there are a couple of
ways to approach this.

You can edit the listname.mbox/listname.mbox file and rebuild the
archive. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>
for info on this method and its drawbacks.

Or, you can just delete what you don't want from
archives/private/listname/. The problem with this is the
archives/private/listname/index.html file is continually updated using
information in the pipermail.pck file so even if you remove old
entries from it, they will come back. I'm not sure what will happen if
you remove the pipermail.pck file.

If you want to delete the archives and stop archiving the list, you can
set the list's 'archive' attribute to no and delete everything in the
archives for the list except for an appropriate
archives/private/listname/index.html file.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 11 17:57:51 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:57:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Show all list members on roster?
Message-ID: <PC1760200610110857510109c3112f00@Notebook>

RFE 1574066
<https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1574066&group_id=103&atid=350103>
asks for ALL list members to be available on a single page in the web
interface. I think this can be satisfied if the current 'roster' page
showed all members including 'hidden' members to a user logged in with
the site or list admin password.

Is there any reason why the roster presented to the site or list admin
should not show hidden members if they are identified as hidden?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Oct 11 18:13:35 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 11:13:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Show all list members on roster?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610110857510109c3112f00@Notebook>
References: <PC1760200610110857510109c3112f00@Notebook>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610110913s528e8c15hc7cada4a4845a8f8@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/11/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Is there any reason why the roster presented to the site or list admin
> should not show hidden members if they are identified as hidden?

Sounds reasonable to me. The only issue I'd have is the transparency
of it. Maybe have a note at the top that says, "You are currently
authenticated as the <list, site> administrator, so hidden users are
displayed in the list below." And, possibly, mark the hidden users?
(Greyed out, asterisk, something.)


-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Oct 11 18:18:31 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 09:18:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Show all list members on roster?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610110857510109c3112f00@Notebook>
References: <PC1760200610110857510109c3112f00@Notebook>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061011091335.063fbc88@crimson-dragon.com>

Mark Sapiro sent the message below at 08:57 10/11/2006:
>RFE 1574066
><https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1574066&group_id=103&atid=350103>
>asks for ALL list members to be available on a single page in the web
>interface. I think this can be satisfied if the current 'roster' page
>showed all members including 'hidden' members to a user logged in with
>the site or list admin password.
>
>Is there any reason why the roster presented to the site or list admin
>should not show hidden members if they are identified as hidden?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

My 2-cents...

If the site or list admin can see these members through the 
membership management interface (which they can), I see no reason why 
they should not be able to see them through the method you are proposing.



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Wed Oct 11 20:04:09 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 11:04:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] where is creator.py?
In-Reply-To: <AAA84820D5874F46B68C394C41FBBB22016CB0FE@SEXGW3K-H2010.local.bibalex.dom>
Message-ID: <C1528029.F10D%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 10/11/06 4:52 AM, "Peter Soccar" <Peter.Soccar at bibalex.org> wrote:

> I'm using mailman 2.1.7 installed from rpm on fedora 5, as I understand
> the default path of adm.py and creator.py should be /etc/mailman
> 
> I found adm.py but not creator.py, could it be in any other location?
> 

Aside from what Brad and Mark said, the locate command should find these
files for you.

  --John




From jimpop at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 11 20:39:43 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:39:43 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] where is creator.py?
In-Reply-To: <AAA84820D5874F46B68C394C41FBBB22016CB0FE@SEXGW3K-H2010.local.bibalex.dom>
References: <AAA84820D5874F46B68C394C41FBBB22016CB0FE@SEXGW3K-H2010.local.bibalex.dom>
Message-ID: <1160591983.11778.0.camel@localhost>

On Wed, 2006-10-11 at 13:52 +0200, Peter Soccar wrote:
> I'm using mailman 2.1.7 installed from rpm on fedora 5, as I understand
> the default path of adm.py and creator.py should be /etc/mailman 
> 
> I found adm.py but not creator.py, could it be in any other location?

Are you sure you don't mean creator.pw?

If so, look in mailman/data/

-Jim P.




From xaf at sbird.info  Wed Oct 11 20:32:24 2006
From: xaf at sbird.info (xaf)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 20:32:24 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug with Postfix + MySQL + Mailman
Message-ID: <afe3896fba76d82b2e5590f3cd49c4aa@debian>

Hi guys, sorry for my bad english, i'm french.
I haven't found any website or mailing-list that can help me for this problem.

It was any days ago, i want to install postfix, and it runs really, i want to put a mailing-list system, it's ok, but i want to add virtual users to postfix, and it's ok !!

But the problem occurs after : only virtual users runs, mailman lists can't run ...

I have this error :
-----------------
Oct 10 19:51:44 debian postfix/virtual[24698]: B722D1FF20: to=<mylist at dom.ext>, relay=virtual, delay=0, status=bounced (unknown user: "mylist at dom.ext")
-----------------

My main.cf :
-----------------
smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name (Debian/GNU) 
biff = no 
 
append_dot_mydomain = no 
 
myhostname = dom.ext 
alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases, hash:/etc/aliases 
alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases 
mydestination = debian, localhost.localdomain, localhost 
relayhost = 
mynetworks = !192.168.0.1, 192.168.0.0/24, 127.0.0.0/8 
mailbox_size_limit = 0 
recipient_delimiter = + 
inet_interfaces = all 
 
virtual_alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman, mysql:alias_maps 
virtual_uid_maps = static:106 
virtual_gid_maps = static:107 
virtual_mailbox_base = /var/mail/virtual 
virtual_mailbox_domains = mysql:domains_maps 
virtual_mailbox_limit = 204800000 
virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:mailbox_maps 
virtual_minimum_uid = 100 
virtual_transport = virtual 
 
# Additional for quota support 
virtual_create_maildirsize = yes 
virtual_mailbox_extended = yes 
virtual_mailbox_limit_maps = mysql:mailbox_limit_maps 
virtual_mailbox_limit_override = yes 
virtual_maildir_limit_message = Sorry, the user's maildir has overdrawn his diskspace quota, please try again later. 
virtual_overquota_bounce = yes 
 
# [mysql infos] 
mysql_user   = postfix 
mysql_passwd = ******* 
mysql_host   = localhost 
mysql_dbname = postfix 
 
# [mysql_relay_domains_maps] 
 
relay_domains_maps_user = $mysql_user 
relay_domains_maps_password = $mysql_passwd 
relay_domains_maps_hosts = $mysql_host 
relay_domains_maps_dbname = $mysql_dbname 
relay_domains_maps_table = domain 
relay_domains_maps_select_field = domain 
relay_domains_maps_where_field = domain 
 
# [mysql_virtual_alias_maps] 
 
alias_maps_user = $mysql_user 
alias_maps_password = $mysql_passwd 
alias_maps_hosts = $mysql_host 
alias_maps_dbname = $mysql_dbname 
alias_maps_table = alias 
alias_maps_select_field = goto 
alias_maps_where_field = address 
 
# [mysql_virtual_domains_maps] 
 
domains_maps_user = $mysql_user 
domains_maps_password = $mysql_passwd 
domains_maps_hosts = $mysql_host 
domains_maps_dbname = $mysql_dbname 
domains_maps_table = domain 
domains_maps_select_field = description 
domains_maps_where_field = domain 
 
# [mysql_virtual_mailbox_limit_maps]       
 
mailbox_limit_maps_user = $mysql_user    
mailbox_limit_maps_password = $mysql_passwd 
mailbox_limit_maps_hosts = $mysql_host 
mailbox_limit_maps_dbname = $mysql_dbname 
mailbox_limit_maps_table = mailbox 
mailbox_limit_maps_select_field = quota 
mailbox_limit_maps_where_field = username 
 
# [mysql_virtual_mailbox_maps]       
 
mailbox_maps_user = $mysql_user 
mailbox_maps_password = $mysql_passwd 
mailbox_maps_hosts = $mysql_host 
mailbox_maps_dbname = $mysql_dbname 
mailbox_maps_table = mailbox 
mailbox_maps_select_field = maildir 
mailbox_maps_where_field = username 
 
#content_filter=smtp-amavis:[127.0.0.1]:10024
-----------------

My /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
-----------------
# This file is generated by Mailman, and is kept in sync with the binary hash
# file virtual-mailman.db.  YOU SHOULD NOT MANUALLY EDIT THIS FILE unless you
# know what you're doing, and can keep the two files properly in sync.  If you
# screw it up, you're on your own.
#
# Note that you should already have this virtual domain set up properly in
# your Postfix installation.  See README.POSTFIX for details.

# LOOP ADDRESSES START
mailman-loop at dom.ext mailman-loop
# LOOP ADDRESSES END

# STANZA START: mailman
# CREATED: Thu Oct  5 01:32:34 2006
mailman at dom.ext              mylist
mailman-admin at dom.ext        mailman-admin
mailman-bounces at dom.ext      mailman-bounces
mailman-confirm at dom.ext      mailman-confirm
mailman-join at dom.ext         mailman-join
mailman-leave at dom.ext        mailman-leave
mailman-owner at dom.ext        mailman-owner
mailman-request at dom.ext      mailman-request
mailman-subscribe at dom.ext    mailman-subscribe
mailman-unsubscribe at dom.ext  mailman-unsubscribe
# STANZA END: mailman

# STANZA START: mylist
# CREATED: Thu Oct  5 01:47:37 2006
mylist at dom.ext              mylist
mylist-admin at dom.ext        mylist-admin
mylist-bounces at dom.ext      mylist-bounces
mylist-confirm at dom.ext      mylist-confirm
mylist-join at dom.ext         mylist-join
mylist-leave at dom.ext        mylist-leave
mylist-owner at dom.ext        mylist-owner
mylist-request at dom.ext      mylist-request
mylist-subscribe at dom.ext    mylist-subscribe
mylist-unsubscribe at dom.ext  mylist-unsubscribe
# STANZA END: mylist
-----------------


Many days left, i found on google a solution : change the directions of the virtual-mailman from mylist* to mylist*@localhost.
I have now this file :

My new /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
-----------------
# This file is generated by Mailman, and is kept in sync with the binary hash
# file virtual-mailman.db.  YOU SHOULD NOT MANUALLY EDIT THIS FILE unless you
# know what you're doing, and can keep the two files properly in sync.  If you
# screw it up, you're on your own.
#
# Note that you should already have this virtual domain set up properly in
# your Postfix installation.  See README.POSTFIX for details.

# LOOP ADDRESSES START
mailman-loop at dom.ext mailman-loop
# LOOP ADDRESSES END

# STANZA START: mailman
# CREATED: Thu Oct  5 01:32:34 2006
mailman at dom.ext              mylist at localhost
mailman-admin at dom.ext        mailman-admin at localhost
mailman-bounces at dom.ext      mailman-bounces at localhost
mailman-confirm at dom.ext      mailman-confirm at localhost
mailman-join at dom.ext         mailman-join at localhost
mailman-leave at dom.ext        mailman-leave at localhost
mailman-owner at dom.ext        mailman-owner at localhost
mailman-request at dom.ext      mailman-request at localhost
mailman-subscribe at dom.ext    mailman-subscribe at localhost
mailman-unsubscribe at dom.ext  mailman-unsubscribe at localhost
# STANZA END: mailman

# STANZA START: mylist
# CREATED: Thu Oct  5 01:47:37 2006
mylist at dom.ext              mylist at localhost
mylist-admin at dom.ext        mylist-admin at localhost
mylist-bounces at dom.ext      mylist-bounces at localhost
mylist-confirm at dom.ext      mylist-confirm at localhost
mylist-join at dom.ext         mylist-join at localhost
mylist-leave at dom.ext        mylist-leave at localhost
mylist-owner at dom.ext        mylist-owner at localhost
mylist-request at dom.ext      mylist-request at localhost
mylist-subscribe at dom.ext    mylist-subscribe at localhost
mylist-unsubscribe at dom.ext  mylist-unsubscribe at localhost
# STANZA END: mylist
-----------------

But now, i have another error :
-----------------
Oct 11 14:00:45 debian postfix/local[8037]: 7E77D1FF20: to=<mylist at localhost>, orig_to=<mylist at dom.ext>, relay=local, delay=0, status=bounced (unknown user: "mylist")
-----------------

If you can help me ... I need you really ... (and I have a very bad english xD)

Thank you !

XaF



From stupidmail4me at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 11 22:10:03 2006
From: stupidmail4me at yahoo.com (stupidmail4me)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 13:10:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610102040300718a4b2aaac@Notebook>
Message-ID: <20061011201003.3456.qmail@web30104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

OK. I'm an absolute idiot! I'm very sorry for wasting
your time. You've been absolutely right the whole time
(we both just didn't know it).

So. It never reached the archive runner so it was
never archived. It was successfully sent, but never
through the actual list. I was just using mailman@ as
a test bed before I set up my other lists. I've also
set up a virtuser in virtusertable
(mailman at lists.foo.com to root) because you don't
really want mailman alerting you to the fact that it's
not broken. So sendmail was reading this before it got
sent to the mailman mailer!

Absolute idiot! Thank you so very much!

--- Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> stupidmail4me wrote:
> 
> >Yes, the qrunner log shows the shutdown and startup
> >from mailmanctl. I've also checked and ToArchive is
> in
> >the pipeline (it's not commented out or changed in
> any
> >conf file). This is why it's so odd.
> 
> 
> The patch I posted causes ToArchive to write the
> 'ToArchive invoked
> <message-id>' message to the debug log as the very
> first thing it
> does. Therefore, the absence of this log message
> seems to say it isn't
> being invoked at all.
> 
> Does the list have a 'pipeline' attribute? (Run
> 'bin/dumpdb
> lists/listname/config.pck' to check.)
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is
> for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use
> your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 11 22:34:25 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 13:34:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug with Postfix + MySQL + Mailman
In-Reply-To: <afe3896fba76d82b2e5590f3cd49c4aa@debian>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610111334250015b494ee88@Notebook>

xaf wrote:
>
>My main.cf :
>-----------------
<snip>
>alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases, hash:/etc/aliases 


This is correct, but what is in /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases and has
postalias run and created the corresponding
/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db file?


>But now, i have another error :
>-----------------
>Oct 11 14:00:45 debian postfix/local[8037]: 7E77D1FF20: to=<mylist at localhost>, orig_to=<mylist at dom.ext>, relay=local, delay=0, status=bounced (unknown user: "mylist")
>-----------------


which seems to say that there is no local alias for 'mylist' in
/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases and aliases.db.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From katie1 at mardiweb.com  Thu Oct 12 17:57:15 2006
From: katie1 at mardiweb.com (katie1 at mardiweb.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 08:57:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Scrubbing archived attachments
Message-ID: <20061012155716.4BAC31E4007@bag.python.org>

I would like to set Mailman up so that it preserves attachments to messages
in the archives. I have been totally unsuccessful in doing this. I have set
it to scrubb all attachments except a certain type and I have set it to not
scrubb any attachments. Nothing works. The user gets the attachment, but it
is not preserved in the archive. 
Kate 



From nospam at codegnome.org  Thu Oct 12 17:18:46 2006
From: nospam at codegnome.org (Todd A. Jacobs)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 08:18:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VERP with Postfix recipient_delimiter of "-"
Message-ID: <20061012151846.GA30590@penguin.codegnome.org>

I've Googled around, and haven't seen anything useful. I'm hoping
someone else can point me in the right direction here.

I'm running Postfix 2.1.5 with the following key definitions:

    recipient_delimiter = -
    smtpd_authorized_verp_clients = $mynetworks
    owner_request_special = no
    
and Mailman 2.1.5, with the following:

    VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes
    VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
    VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes

However, no VERP happens at all. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

So, the question is, do I have to tweak the default VERP_FORMAT,
VERP_REGEXP, VERP_PROBE_FORMAT, VERP_PROBE_REGEXP, or anything else to
make this happen? Am I doing something wrong? Or is it just well and
truly broken?

Any help would be, well, helpful.

-- 
Unabashedly littering the information superhighway with detritus like
this for over 15 years now.


From biggleszx at gmail.com  Thu Oct 12 20:20:07 2006
From: biggleszx at gmail.com (BigglesZX)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 19:20:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using a remote email account as a message source
Message-ID: <ea1854820610121120p52a42c8byfbcb7bed29844a64@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I'm using Mailman 2.1.8 on Debian with exim4 (4.63). I am a first-time
user of Mailman (at least from the administrative end); I am trying to
use Mailman as a replacement for a mail distribution routine used
previously in a project I am part of.

The previous system involved two accounts, members at mydomain.com and
exec at mydomain.com, and a program run every hour or so that checked
these accounts for new mail and sent any new mail out to addresses on
two predefined lists - one for members@ and one for exec at .

I was told (by someone to whom the problem may or may not have been
succinctly explained) that Mailman could be my salvation, so here I am
- installed and ready to go. The main question being: can a Mailman
list be set up such that instead of using listname at localhost, a remote
account is checked for messages and these are then distributed to the
list?

Or is my best option to forward all mail from this remote address to
an account on the local machine, and then have the list operate in the
normal way?

Thanks for your time and best regards,

  Biggs

-- 
biggleszx at gmail.com
http://www.biggleszx.com/


From ki at knifecenter.com  Thu Oct 12 21:09:29 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 15:09:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron gate_news
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061006143026029681a88f22@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C1540B29.3BDA4%ki@knifecenter.com>

>> I ran check perms and there were no problems found.
>> 
>> What else do I need to check? I am still getting the
>> Cron <mailman at mail> /usr/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news
>> message.
> 
> What happens if you manually run
> 
> /usr/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news
> 
> as the 'mailman' user?
> 
> Where is the crontab that runs this installed?
> 
> Is the 'mailman' user a member of the 'mailman' group?
> 
I found out that the mailman user was no longer a member of the mailman
group.
So, I logged in as root, and added mailman to the mailman group.

For a couple hours, this error message stopped.

However, after a couple hours, the same error message about mailman not
being allowed permission to run the file is emailed to me again.

I log into the server as mailman, type in groups, and find out that mailman
is again, no longer a part of the mailman group.

I didn't change any permissions.
Could there be some script that is automatically removing mailman from the
mailman group?



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Oct 12 21:17:47 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:17:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using a remote email account as a message source
In-Reply-To: <ea1854820610121120p52a42c8byfbcb7bed29844a64@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ea1854820610121120p52a42c8byfbcb7bed29844a64@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610121217v5a145359w83806cdc6611d6cd@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/12/06, BigglesZX <biggleszx at gmail.com> wrote:
> I was told (by someone to whom the problem may or may not have been
> succinctly explained) that Mailman could be my salvation, so here I am
> - installed and ready to go. The main question being: can a Mailman
> list be set up such that instead of using listname at localhost, a remote
> account is checked for messages and these are then distributed to the
> list?
>
> Or is my best option to forward all mail from this remote address to
> an account on the local machine, and then have the list operate in the
> normal way?

You can set up a program called 'fetchmail' to retrieve the mail from
those remote machines and deliver it to the local mailman address.

A "cleaner" solution would, in fact, be to forward those local
addresses to the list address at the machine running mailman.

Additionally, don't forget to set 'require_explicit_destination' to
off, if the listname doesn't match the aliases you're using.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Oct 12 21:18:55 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:18:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron gate_news
In-Reply-To: <C1540B29.3BDA4%ki@knifecenter.com>
References: <PC176020061006143026029681a88f22@msapiro>
	<C1540B29.3BDA4%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610121218w258d19xac54190b120abb2e@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/12/06, Ki Song <ki at knifecenter.com> wrote:
> Could there be some script that is automatically removing mailman from the
> mailman group?

Certainly, but, AFAIK, it's not something associated with mailman.
Perhaps something that syncs your groups file with something else
periodically?

Anyway, check /etc/crontab and root's crontab for anything likely-looking.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From ki at knifecenter.com  Thu Oct 12 22:18:38 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 16:18:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron gate_news
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00610121218w258d19xac54190b120abb2e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C1541B5E.3BE14%ki@knifecenter.com>

>> Could there be some script that is automatically removing mailman from the
>> mailman group?
> 
> Certainly, but, AFAIK, it's not something associated with mailman.
> Perhaps something that syncs your groups file with something else
> periodically?
> 
> Anyway, check /etc/crontab and root's crontab for anything likely-looking.
> 
I don't see anything in there that would modify the mailman user's group
setting in these files (crontab). Is there anywhere else that I should look?



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 12 22:55:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 13:55:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Scrubbing archived attachments
In-Reply-To: <20061012155716.4BAC31E4007@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610121355340718477dbcb0@Notebook>

Kate wrote:

>I would like to set Mailman up so that it preserves attachments to messages
>in the archives. I have been totally unsuccessful in doing this. I have set
>it to scrubb all attachments except a certain type and I have set it to not
>scrubb any attachments. Nothing works. The user gets the attachment, but it
>is not preserved in the archive. 


What settings are you manipulating? It sounds more like content
filtering.

What are you seeing in the archive for a message with an attachment?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 12 23:34:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:34:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VERP with Postfix recipient_delimiter of "-"
In-Reply-To: <20061012151846.GA30590@penguin.codegnome.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610121434320562477dbc12@Notebook>

Todd A. Jacobs wrote:

>I've Googled around, and haven't seen anything useful. I'm hoping
>someone else can point me in the right direction here.
>
>I'm running Postfix 2.1.5 with the following key definitions:
>
>    recipient_delimiter = -
>    smtpd_authorized_verp_clients = $mynetworks
>    owner_request_special = no


Default Mailman settings use a VERP delimiter of '+', not '-'. It is
not practical to use '-' because of conflicts with the listname-*
addresses (although I don't know much about Postfix so I may not be
correctly understanding what recipient_delimiter does).

   
>and Mailman 2.1.5, with the following:
>
>    VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes
>    VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
>    VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes
>
>However, no VERP happens at all. Nada. Zip. Zilch.


What do you mean by this? Do you mean that password reminders and
subscription invitations/confirmations are not VERPed?

Note that the above settings will not cause posts to be VERPed unless
the list also has personalization set to Yes or Full. In order to VERP
non-personalized message delivery, set

VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1


>So, the question is, do I have to tweak the default VERP_FORMAT,
>VERP_REGEXP, VERP_PROBE_FORMAT, VERP_PROBE_REGEXP, or anything else to
>make this happen? Am I doing something wrong? Or is it just well and
>truly broken?


Only if you truly need the VERP delimiter to be other than '+'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From barry at python.org  Thu Oct 12 23:41:01 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 17:41:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VERP with Postfix recipient_delimiter of "-"
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610121434320562477dbc12@Notebook>
References: <PC1760200610121434320562477dbc12@Notebook>
Message-ID: <ACFEAB12-FF61-45D3-8D63-99B1E480D11C@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Oct 12, 2006, at 5:34 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Default Mailman settings use a VERP delimiter of '+', not '-'. It is
> not practical to use '-' because of conflicts with the listname-*
> addresses (although I don't know much about Postfix so I may not be
> correctly understanding what recipient_delimiter does).

You're right Mark, that's what it's for, and yep, it's best to use '+'.

- -Barry

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)

iQCVAwUBRS62bnEjvBPtnXfVAQLgVAP+OzVsMvuK4y5Rxy75GrMGTjm43wh64jiH
AoiNpe9vPdu3XfbdwGlpdZeyF7oaMaYGIVvh9UU2EPT/1AUUe7irXKRVs2EET1qh
862yZ08sNMAyBw4QlQZyhuR5ZaOSht745elK2kN+VNPkue2LZKPJnKQvsL5F0dCV
WyDcZ9YG3oE=
=VNvr
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From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 12 23:48:25 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:48:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Scrubbing archived attachments
In-Reply-To: <200610121522438.SM02672@psmtp.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610121448250718a60ebe67@Notebook>

Please include the list in replies.

Kate Henry wrote:

>Under Content Filtering I have tried:
>
>"Remove message attachments that don't have a matching filename extension"
>by putting "pdf, doc and rtf" in the box.  Then I tried putting nothing in
>any of the filter boxes (assuming this would allow all attachments to be
>archived).


Content filtering causes attachments of various types to be removed
before delivery/digesting/archiving. It will remove attachments from
all messages, but it won't affect how attachments that are not removed
are archived.


>Nothing works.  When I look at the e-mail in the archives it
>says the following:
>
>A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>Name: 04_540pins.pdf
>Type: application/pdf
>Size: 69000 bytes
>Desc: not available
>Url :
>/pipermail/coholist_cohousing-corvallis.com/attachments/20061012/86e2d42a/at
>tachment.pdf 
>
>All I want to do is to archive the attachment along with the e-mail so that
>people can go back into the archives to find an attachment.
>
>Can this be done?


That is exactly what is happening. The message has been archived and
the PDF attachment has been removed and stored separately in the
archive and a link to the PDF attachment is included in the archived
message. It should say (where example.com is your actual web host)

Url :
http://example.com/pipermail/coholist_cohousing-corvallis.com/attachments/20061012/86e2d42a/attachment.pdf

If the 'http://example.com' is truly missing from the archived message
and not just omitted in your email above, then the PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL
setting is misconfigured in the Mailman installation

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From katie1 at mardiweb.com  Thu Oct 12 23:56:33 2006
From: katie1 at mardiweb.com (Kate Henry)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:56:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Scrubbing archived attachments
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610121355340718477dbcb0@Notebook>
Message-ID: <20061012220318.1FE681E4008@bag.python.org>

All I want to do is to set up Mailman so that it sends an attachment with
the e-mail (that works) and then saves the attachment in the archived
version of the e-mail (doesn't work - get message that the attachment was
"scrubbed").  I can't seem to figure out how to do it.  I have nothing set
in "content filtering" assuming that would mean that nothing is filtered.
If that is not how to make it so that I can save a copy of the attachment in
the archive, what do I need to do?

Mardi Wetmore 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 1:56 PM
To: katie1 at mardiweb.com; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Scrubbing archived attachments

Kate wrote:

>I would like to set Mailman up so that it preserves attachments to 
>messages in the archives. I have been totally unsuccessful in doing 
>this. I have set it to scrubb all attachments except a certain type and 
>I have set it to not scrubb any attachments. Nothing works. The user 
>gets the attachment, but it is not preserved in the archive.


What settings are you manipulating? It sounds more like content filtering.

What are you seeing in the archive for a message with an attachment?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan






From trackmom at aol.com  Fri Oct 13 00:26:51 2006
From: trackmom at aol.com (Shaunna Prentice)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 15:26:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] EnsimPro and Mailman
Message-ID: <001801c6ee4d$84b49f00$6601a8c0@TivoPC>

Hi,

I have followed the instructions at:

http://forum.ev1servers.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43004

I have a server running Fedora and Ensim Pro 4.0.3-22.
Everything has been working except when someone wants to
subscribe.  About every other time it comes up with an
Internal Server Error.  Error log shows the premature script
headers: subscribe with the referring url that of the list.
Interestingly enough the confirmation email goes out anyway
so it must be in the display of the confirmation message
only.  I followed that how-to line by line. 

I was wondering if anyone else on Ensim has run into this
before.  

Thanks a bunch!
Megan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 13 00:30:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 15:30:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Scrubbing archived attachments
In-Reply-To: <200610121556430.SM02672@psmtp.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610121530050421e471b00a@Notebook>

Kate Henry wrote:

>All I want to do is to set up Mailman so that it sends an attachment with
>the e-mail (that works) and then saves the attachment in the archived
>version of the e-mail (doesn't work - get message that the attachment was
>"scrubbed").  I can't seem to figure out how to do it.  I have nothing set
>in "content filtering" assuming that would mean that nothing is filtered.


That is correct. Even better, set filter_content to No if that's what
you want and no content filtering will be done at all regardless of
the other settings.

In any case, if the attachment is sent in list mail, content filtering
didn't remove it and has no further effect on the archive.


>If that is not how to make it so that I can save a copy of the attachment in
>the archive, what do I need to do?


I'm not sure where the above message fits in this partially off list
thread, but here's a summary of what's happening.

Based on your off list message (copied in my reply at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-October/053829.html>),
the attachment is archived and its location in the archive is included
in the archived message. See my reply for more.

If you are expecting to see the PDF attachment 'inline' in the archive,
pipermail doesn't attempt to do that, and in fact, it can't be done at
all in a browser independent way. In another recent thread
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-October/053639.html>
I wrote

<quote>
Pipermail does not have the ability to archive Multipart messages at
all, not to mention the ability to convert a PDF attachment to HTML so
it could be viewed inline in the archive.

Thus, all messages must be 'scrubbed' before archiving. Scrubbing
consists of saving all non-plain text attachments and plain text parts
with incompatible character sets separately in the 'attachments'
directory and replacing them with hyperlinks in the original message
and flattening the original into a single plain text message for the
archive.
</quote>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Oct 13 01:56:53 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 18:56:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using a remote email account as a message source
In-Reply-To: <ea1854820610121558u36273fe9mff3fc73db0fd1abf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ea1854820610121120p52a42c8byfbcb7bed29844a64@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00610121217v5a145359w83806cdc6611d6cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<ea1854820610121558u36273fe9mff3fc73db0fd1abf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610121656m4fb50023md26a0cc3519d3556@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/12/06, BigglesZX <biggleszx at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Patrick, and thank you very much for your reply.
>
> I've followed your advice and now have fetchmail retrieving mail from
> the remote account and forwarding it to the local mailing list
> address. Despite my setting the list to accept mail from
> non-subscribers etc, mail does not appear to be getting through - so
> I'm just wondering where there might exist logs of any mail
> transactions taking place, so I can attempt to debug this.
The 'post' log will indicate whether or not the message was received.
The vette log will show messages that were discarded (or held?), and
should indicate the reason.

> I have checked the files in /var/log/mailman, and
> /var/log/mailman/smtp shows a couple of lines like the following:
The error log generally only shows things that caused a message to be
shunted, which probably isn't the issue at this point.

>
> Oct 12 23:01:49 2006 (13491)
> <mailman.0.1160690507.13514.listname at mydomain.com> smtp to listname
> for 1 recips, completed in 0.345 seconds
>
> The strange thing is that the timestamp on this line is from about 30
> mins before I started sending test messages, so I don't know why it is
> there. Crucially, no lines have shown up since I started sending the
> tests. /var/log/mailman/error shows nothing relevant (just error
> messages from when I restarted mailman a while ago).
An earlier test message? Can you double-check that the system's clock
is correct?

> The messages are definitely being retrieved by fetchmail as I tested
> this by directing them to a different local address (a normal mail
> account). Is there any way I can get further diagnostic information
> from mailman? I tried enabling archiving and nothing shows up so it
> appears that the messages do not make it on to the list.
>

If you generate a mail from the machine running mailman destined for
one of the lists, does it go out?

My first guess would be that your MTA on the machine running mailman.
Double-check that your aliases are set correctly, and check your MTA
logs to see that the messages are, in fact, getting passed to mailman.

(Fetchmail *might* be configured to deliver messages directly to your
mailbox, rather than through the local SMTP. The latter is what you
want.)

P.S.,
Please include the list in your replies, in case someone else has
better ideas than me. This is an extremely likely situation.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Oct 13 02:00:29 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 19:00:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron gate_news
In-Reply-To: <C1541B5E.3BE14%ki@knifecenter.com>
References: <6fbe3da00610121218w258d19xac54190b120abb2e@mail.gmail.com>
	<C1541B5E.3BE14%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610121700w606ec91aqf04090134c0e3291@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/12/06, Ki Song <ki at knifecenter.com> wrote:
> I don't see anything in there that would modify the mailman user's group
> setting in these files (crontab). Is there anywhere else that I should look?

You might want to check syslog, I believe most CRON implementations
report what they run when they run it.

Make sure there's nobody else that might be involved in administering
the machine that may be undoing what you're doing.

Make sure there are no daemonized processes running that might be
interested in keeping the groups a certain way.

I can't think of any other possibilities, aside from the machine being
compromised. However, it seems like that's excessive, considering the
symptom.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 13 02:32:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 17:32:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using a remote email account as a message source
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00610121656m4fb50023md26a0cc3519d3556@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610121732120968cd6fe074@Notebook>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 10/12/06, BigglesZX <biggleszx at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I've followed your advice and now have fetchmail retrieving mail from
>> the remote account and forwarding it to the local mailing list
>> address. Despite my setting the list to accept mail from
>> non-subscribers etc, mail does not appear to be getting through - so
>> I'm just wondering where there might exist logs of any mail
>> transactions taking place, so I can attempt to debug this.
>The 'post' log will indicate whether or not the message was received.


Actually, the 'post' log is written by SMTPDirect at message delivery
time as are the 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' logs. Thus the 'post' log
doesn't log 'received' posts. It only logs posts that are sent to the
list. Nothing logs the initial receipt of a post.


>> Oct 12 23:01:49 2006 (13491)
>> <mailman.0.1160690507.13514.listname at mydomain.com> smtp to listname
>> for 1 recips, completed in 0.345 seconds
>>
>> The strange thing is that the timestamp on this line is from about 30
>> mins before I started sending test messages, so I don't know why it is
>> there.


The message-id indicates this is an internally generated Mailman
message. It could be a subscription confirmation or some kind of owner
notification. It is not a post.



>> The messages are definitely being retrieved by fetchmail as I tested
>> this by directing them to a different local address (a normal mail
>> account).


What is fetchmail doing with the messages it retrieves? Note that
possibly the most straightforward thing is to have fetchmail deliver
to a local mail directory (qfiles/maildir/ by default but can be
changed in mm_cfg.py by setting MAILDIR_DIR) and use Mailman's maildir
delivery by putting the following in mm_cfg.py

USE_MAILDIR = Yes
QRUNNERS.append(('MaildirRunner', 1))

See Defaults.py for more info.

>> Is there any way I can get further diagnostic information
>> from mailman? I tried enabling archiving and nothing shows up so it
>> appears that the messages do not make it on to the list.


You probably have to actually add log messages to the code, but before
going there, look in qfiles/in/ and qfiles/shunt/. If both of these
are empty, the messages most likely aren't getting to Mailman in the
first place.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From xaf at sbird.info  Fri Oct 13 07:16:57 2006
From: xaf at sbird.info (XaF)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 7:16:57 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug with Postfix + MySQL + Mailman
In-Reply-To: <mailman.48.1160647211.19662.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.48.1160647211.19662.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <4aeb8ea9e0d28d3630002f2c4705411d@debian>

Hello !

I have found the problem, my mailserver was really configured correctly, but, and it isn't in any manual, I must add "local_recipient_maps" value ...

Now it's ok !

Thank you for your answer

Have a nice day ;)

XaF
[http://www.sbird.info/]



From biggleszx at gmail.com  Fri Oct 13 10:49:34 2006
From: biggleszx at gmail.com (BigglesZX)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 09:49:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using a remote email account as a message source
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610121732120968cd6fe074@Notebook>
References: <6fbe3da00610121656m4fb50023md26a0cc3519d3556@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200610121732120968cd6fe074@Notebook>
Message-ID: <ea1854820610130149u132e9599i921031da50b924c5@mail.gmail.com>

On 13/10/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> What is fetchmail doing with the messages it retrieves? Note that
> possibly the most straightforward thing is to have fetchmail deliver
> to a local mail directory (qfiles/maildir/ by default but can be
> changed in mm_cfg.py by setting MAILDIR_DIR) and use Mailman's maildir
> delivery by putting the following in mm_cfg.py
>
> USE_MAILDIR = Yes
> QRUNNERS.append(('MaildirRunner', 1))
>
> See Defaults.py for more info.
>

Apologies for deviation from topic :/

Okay, I've spent some time looking through the fetchmail documentation
and I can't for the life of me establish how to direct mail to a local
directory. Incidentally, my .fetchmailrc is as follows - I'm hoping I
got the semantics of it correct with regards to passing on mail in the
correct fashion.

   poll mymailserver.com protocol pop3
      username myusername there with password mypassw0rd is listname here nokeep
   ;

This configuration gives the impression of successful retreival and
flushing of remote mail. But it's still not making it to the list, so
I'm looking to try this local directory approach.

qfiles/in and qfiles/shunt are both empty, incidentally.

Thanks once again,

   Biggs

-- 
biggleszx at gmail.com
http://www.biggleszx.com/


From biggleszx at gmail.com  Fri Oct 13 10:54:57 2006
From: biggleszx at gmail.com (BigglesZX)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 09:54:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using a remote email account as a message source
In-Reply-To: <ea1854820610130149u132e9599i921031da50b924c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6fbe3da00610121656m4fb50023md26a0cc3519d3556@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200610121732120968cd6fe074@Notebook>
	<ea1854820610130149u132e9599i921031da50b924c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ea1854820610130154q17387335v95adcf644d797622@mail.gmail.com>

Ah, and here's the strange thing - if I send mail to the list address
(using listname at localhost) from a local account, it doesn't get sent
out on the list either! No bounce messages are returned.


On 13/10/06, BigglesZX <biggleszx at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 13/10/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> > What is fetchmail doing with the messages it retrieves? Note that
> > possibly the most straightforward thing is to have fetchmail deliver
> > to a local mail directory (qfiles/maildir/ by default but can be
> > changed in mm_cfg.py by setting MAILDIR_DIR) and use Mailman's maildir
> > delivery by putting the following in mm_cfg.py
> >
> > USE_MAILDIR = Yes
> > QRUNNERS.append(('MaildirRunner', 1))
> >
> > See Defaults.py for more info.
> >
>
> Apologies for deviation from topic :/
>
> Okay, I've spent some time looking through the fetchmail documentation
> and I can't for the life of me establish how to direct mail to a local
> directory. Incidentally, my .fetchmailrc is as follows - I'm hoping I
> got the semantics of it correct with regards to passing on mail in the
> correct fashion.
>
>    poll mymailserver.com protocol pop3
>       username myusername there with password mypassw0rd is listname here nokeep
>    ;
>
> This configuration gives the impression of successful retreival and
> flushing of remote mail. But it's still not making it to the list, so
> I'm looking to try this local directory approach.
>
> qfiles/in and qfiles/shunt are both empty, incidentally.
>
> Thanks once again,
>
>    Biggs
>
> --
> biggleszx at gmail.com
> http://www.biggleszx.com/
>


-- 
biggleszx at gmail.com
http://www.biggleszx.com/


From arimo at iki.fi  Fri Oct 13 12:34:48 2006
From: arimo at iki.fi (Ari Moisio)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 13:34:48 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] member_posting_only -setting in Mailman 2.1.5
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0610131328210.14249@nkl.local>

Hi!

  I have searched  all list configuration but cannnot find how to disable
member_posting_only-feature with web interface.

  I have several mailing lists with  memebers sometimes mailing from some 
other address they are subscribed. I have manually accepted each message 
but would like to permanently enable these senders addresses. However i 
could not find any setting to allow postings from  non-subscribed 
addresses.

  Is this functionality available via web interface?



-- 
arimo


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 13 16:37:19 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 07:37:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] member_posting_only -setting in Mailman 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0610131328210.14249@nkl.local>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610130737190343bf71244a@Notebook>

Ari Moisio wrote:
>
>  I have several mailing lists with  memebers sometimes mailing from some 
>other address they are subscribed. I have manually accepted each message 
>but would like to permanently enable these senders addresses. However i 
>could not find any setting to allow postings from  non-subscribed 
>addresses.
>
>  Is this functionality available via web interface?


Yes, Privacy options...->Sender filters

If you want to accept individual addresses, add them to
accept_these_nonmembers.

If you want to accept posts from any address, set
generic_nonmember_action to accept.

Also, in the moderator interface, when you are approving a post from a
nonmember, there is a checkbox to add the address to
accept_these_nonmembers.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 13 17:05:22 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 08:05:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using a remote email account as a message source
In-Reply-To: <ea1854820610130154q17387335v95adcf644d797622@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610130805220796de201fd2@Notebook>

BigglesZX wrote:

>Ah, and here's the strange thing - if I send mail to the list address
>(using listname at localhost) from a local account, it doesn't get sent
>out on the list either! No bounce messages are returned.


What's in the local MTA log for this message? Do you have aliases or
whatever the MTA uses to pipe the message to Mailman?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From katie1 at mardiweb.com  Fri Oct 13 17:33:44 2006
From: katie1 at mardiweb.com (katie1 at mardiweb.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 08:33:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW:  Mailman Scrubbing archived attachments
Message-ID: <20061013153345.50C3D1E4002@bag.python.org>


Ok, I think I get it.  But, here's what we get at the bottom of the e-mail:

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 04_540pins.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 69000 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
/pipermail/coholist_cohousing-corvallis.com/attachments/20061012/86e2d42a/at
tachment.pdf 

The URL is not a URL that works.  It does not come up as a clickable URL and
if you paste it into a browser and it goes nowhere.  Could this have
something to do with how my hosting service has Mailman set up?

Mardi 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 3:30 PM
To: Kate Henry; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Scrubbing archived attachments

Kate Henry wrote:

>All I want to do is to set up Mailman so that it sends an attachment 
>with the e-mail (that works) and then saves the attachment in the 
>archived version of the e-mail (doesn't work - get message that the 
>attachment was "scrubbed").  I can't seem to figure out how to do it.
>I have nothing set in "content filtering" assuming that would mean that
nothing is filtered.


That is correct. Even better, set filter_content to No if that's what you
want and no content filtering will be done at all regardless of the other
settings.

In any case, if the attachment is sent in list mail, content filtering
didn't remove it and has no further effect on the archive.


>If that is not how to make it so that I can save a copy of the 
>attachment in the archive, what do I need to do?


I'm not sure where the above message fits in this partially off list thread,
but here's a summary of what's happening.

Based on your off list message (copied in my reply at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-October/053829.html>),
the attachment is archived and its location in the archive is included in
the archived message. See my reply for more.

If you are expecting to see the PDF attachment 'inline' in the archive,
pipermail doesn't attempt to do that, and in fact, it can't be done at all
in a browser independent way. In another recent thread
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-October/053639.html>
I wrote

<quote>
Pipermail does not have the ability to archive Multipart messages at all,
not to mention the ability to convert a PDF attachment to HTML so it could
be viewed inline in the archive.

Thus, all messages must be 'scrubbed' before archiving. Scrubbing consists
of saving all non-plain text attachments and plain text parts with
incompatible character sets separately in the 'attachments'
directory and replacing them with hyperlinks in the original message and
flattening the original into a single plain text message for the archive.
</quote>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan






From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 13 18:00:51 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 09:00:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Scrubbing archived attachments
In-Reply-To: <20061013092300.SM02308@psmtp.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061013090051060959fe0214@Notebook>

Mardi Wetmore wrote:

>Ok, I think I get it.  But, here's what we get at the bottom of the e-mail:
>
>-------------- next part --------------
>A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>Name: 04_540pins.pdf
>Type: application/pdf
>Size: 69000 bytes
>Desc: not available
>Url :
>/pipermail/coholist_cohousing-corvallis.com/attachments/20061012/86e2d42a/at
>tachment.pdf 
>
>The URL is not a URL that works.  It does not come up as a clickable URL and
>if you paste it into a browser and it goes nowhere.


As I tried to indicate in my reply at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-October/053829.html>,
the Mailman installation itself is broken or misconfigured.

The URL should be
<http://cohousing-corvallis.com/pipermail/coholist_cohousing-corvallis.com/attachments/20061012/86e2d42a/attachment.pdf>
and it should be a clickable link in the archive. This URL does work
(I tried it).

For an example of how this is supposed to look in the archive, see
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-October/053780.html>.

I also visited <http://cohousing-corvallis.com/mailman/listinfo/> and I
see this is a cPanel installation. I don't know if the problem is the
cPanel Mailman or a misconfiguration, but it any case, it will
probably have to be addressed by cPanel or the administration of the
hosting server. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

Whoever is checking into this should first check the Defaults.py and
mm_cfg.py setting for PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL. The setting in Defaults.py
is (should be)

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'

it should not be overridden in mm_cfg.py. It appears in your case it
may be

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = '/pipermail/%(listname)s'

which is wrong.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From webmaster at gothamnetworking.com  Fri Oct 13 20:42:39 2006
From: webmaster at gothamnetworking.com (Mitch Tobol)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 14:42:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lost emails
Message-ID: <1ABF8095-E2A1-44E6-8D83-103A304ED1C9@gothamnetworking.com>

My list to about 500 people stopped working for some reason. Messages  
go in, get moderated but never reach the light of day. I read about  
an unshunt command which a programmer who doesn't know mailman used  
to no avail.

I really need a person who can help me fix this issue. The programmer  
that originally installed Mailman cannot be found.

Please contact me at 516-767-8182. Thanks.

Mitch Tobol


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 13 21:07:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 12:07:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lost emails
In-Reply-To: <1ABF8095-E2A1-44E6-8D83-103A304ED1C9@gothamnetworking.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006101312070807038f3b3a67@Notebook>

Mitch Tobol wrote:
>
>I really need a person who can help me fix this issue. The programmer  
>that originally installed Mailman cannot be found.


In the mean time, you might find
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>
to be of help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From biggleszx at gmail.com  Fri Oct 13 21:40:11 2006
From: biggleszx at gmail.com (BigglesZX)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 20:40:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using a remote email account as a message source
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610130805220796de201fd2@Notebook>
References: <ea1854820610130154q17387335v95adcf644d797622@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200610130805220796de201fd2@Notebook>
Message-ID: <ea1854820610131240hf149ecdyee5f2346cf634bdb@mail.gmail.com>

Okay, the problem was with my MTA - Exim was not set up to play with
mailman, so after following the advice given in the Exim-mailman
readme, I have made some progress. The test messages sent previously
were being frozen by Exim because it was not correctly set up to
handle messages to mailman.

The problem now is with group mismatch - my mails are getting through
to mailman but the following is returned as an error:

  Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
  wrapper script to be executed as group "daemon", but
  the system's mail server executed the mail script as
  group "Debian-exim".

I have followed the instructions given by Roger Lynn on
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=303342 as to how to
set up exim conf files to invoke mailman correctly, but I still get
the group mismatch error despite setting the script calling user to
"list" and group to "daemon" as recommended. I know the error suggests
this configuration change is not getting through, but I have run out
of things to try (and my head hurts). Is there any way to instruct
mailman to accept another group without recompiling (I'm on Debian and
used apt for a package install)?

To reiterate my "versions": Mailman 2.1.8 on Debian with exim4 (4.63).

Thanks once again for your time.

   Biggs

On 13/10/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> BigglesZX wrote:
>
> >Ah, and here's the strange thing - if I send mail to the list address
> >(using listname at localhost) from a local account, it doesn't get sent
> >out on the list either! No bounce messages are returned.
>
>
> What's in the local MTA log for this message? Do you have aliases or
> whatever the MTA uses to pipe the message to Mailman?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
biggleszx at gmail.com
http://www.biggleszx.com/


From ler at lerctr.org  Fri Oct 13 23:47:59 2006
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 16:47:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lost emails
In-Reply-To: <1ABF8095-E2A1-44E6-8D83-103A304ED1C9@gothamnetworking.com>
Message-ID: <044c01c6ef11$461a77a0$3d29010a@SURGIENT.COM>

Mitch Tobol wrote:
> My list to about 500 people stopped working for some reason. Messages
> go in, get moderated but never reach the light of day. I read about
> an unshunt command which a programmer who doesn't know mailman used
> to no avail.   
> 
> I really need a person who can help me fix this issue. The programmer
> that originally installed Mailman cannot be found. 
> 
> Please contact me at 516-767-8182. Thanks.
> 
> Mitch Tobol

I've been in touch with Mitch, and I'm seeing the following:
Oct 13 17:39:41 2006 (21897) SHUNTING:
1160751710.5174129+20b0271866a4e8765c73a8523cb44434221b861a
Oct 13 17:39:41 2006 (21897) Uncaught runner exception:
judie at PromotionalSolutions.biz
Oct 13 17:39:41 2006 (21897) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
_dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
_dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CalcRecips.py", line 74, in
process
    recips = [mlist.getMemberCPAddress(m)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 139, in
getDeliveryStatus
    self.__assertIsMember(member)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 113, in
__assertIsMember
    raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
NotAMemberError: judie at PromotionalSolutions.biz

Oct 13 17:39:41 2006 (21897) SHUNTING:
1160756157.5952711+8e02c47993802a4f0ff6930eff9c20de7af06873

This user *IS* listed in the membership DB.

This is Mailman 2.1.5 on 
[root at gothamweb01 shunt]# cat /etc/redhat-release
Fedora Core release 3 (Heidelberg)
[root at gothamweb01 shunt]#


I've not seen this before....

Ideas?



-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 512-248-2683             E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 430 Valona Loop, Round Rock, TX 78681-3893



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 14 00:56:13 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:56:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lost emails
In-Reply-To: <044c01c6ef11$461a77a0$3d29010a@SURGIENT.COM>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610131556130671039e310c@Notebook>

Larry Rosenman wrote:
>
>I've been in touch with Mitch, and I'm seeing the following:
>Oct 13 17:39:41 2006 (21897) SHUNTING:
>1160751710.5174129+20b0271866a4e8765c73a8523cb44434221b861a
>Oct 13 17:39:41 2006 (21897) Uncaught runner exception:
>judie at PromotionalSolutions.biz
>Oct 13 17:39:41 2006 (21897) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
>_dispose
>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
>_dopipeline
>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CalcRecips.py", line 74, in
>process
>    recips = [mlist.getMemberCPAddress(m)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 139, in
>getDeliveryStatus
>    self.__assertIsMember(member)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 113, in
>__assertIsMember
>    raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
>NotAMemberError: judie at PromotionalSolutions.biz

The full statement in CalcRecips.py is

    recips = [mlist.getMemberCPAddress(m)
              for m in mlist.getRegularMemberKeys()
              if mlist.getDeliveryStatus(m) == ENABLED]


There appears to be a problem in that the list returned by
getRegularMemberKeys() contains 'judie at PromotionalSolutions.biz'

This should be a completely lower case address. What's in the list's
'members' dictionary as shown by bin/dumpdb of the config.pck. The
keys should all be lower case with either 0 or a case-preserved
address as the value.

If this is the issue, you can fix it with bin/withlist or you may be
able to remove this member and then add her back. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.013.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ler at lerctr.org  Sat Oct 14 01:10:17 2006
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 18:10:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lost emails
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610131556130671039e310c@Notebook>
Message-ID: <007101c6ef1c$c5d45eb0$0202fea9@SURGIENT.COM>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Larry Rosenman wrote:
>> 
>> I've been in touch with Mitch, and I'm seeing the following:
>> Oct 13 17:39:41 2006 (21897) SHUNTING:
>> 1160751710.5174129+20b0271866a4e8765c73a8523cb44434221b861a
>> Oct 13 17:39:41 2006 (21897) Uncaught runner exception:
>> judie at PromotionalSolutions.biz
>> Oct 13 17:39:41 2006 (21897) Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in
>>    _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in
>>    _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130,
>>    in _dispose more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153,
>>    in _dopipeline sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CalcRecips.py", line 74, in
>>    process recips = [mlist.getMemberCPAddress(m)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 139,
>>    in getDeliveryStatus self.__assertIsMember(member)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 113,
>>    in __assertIsMember raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
>> NotAMemberError: judie at PromotionalSolutions.biz
> 
> The full statement in CalcRecips.py is
> 
>     recips = [mlist.getMemberCPAddress(m)
>               for m in mlist.getRegularMemberKeys()
>               if mlist.getDeliveryStatus(m) == ENABLED]
> 
> 
> There appears to be a problem in that the list returned by
> getRegularMemberKeys() contains 'judie at PromotionalSolutions.biz'
> 
> This should be a completely lower case address. What's in the list's
> 'members' dictionary as shown by bin/dumpdb of the config.pck. The
> keys should all be lower case with either 0 or a case-preserved
> address as the value.   
> 
> If this is the issue, you can fix it with bin/withlist or you may be
> able to remove this member and then add her back. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.013.htp>.

All the recipies on the page give the error.  What's in the db:

[root at gothamweb01 fredslist]# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/dumpdb config.pck |grep
judie
                   'judie at PromotionalSolutions.biz': 0,
[root at gothamweb01 fredslist]#

How can I delete this easily when all the tricks on that page fail with the
not a member.....



-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 512-248-2683             E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 430 Valona Loop, Round Rock, TX 78681-3893



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 14 01:39:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 16:39:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lost emails
In-Reply-To: <007101c6ef1c$c5d45eb0$0202fea9@SURGIENT.COM>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610131639500234039e2f7c@Notebook>

Larry Rosenman wrote:
>
>[root at gothamweb01 fredslist]# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/dumpdb config.pck |grep
>judie
>                   'judie at PromotionalSolutions.biz': 0,
>[root at gothamweb01 fredslist]#
>
>How can I delete this easily when all the tricks on that page fail with the
>not a member.....


shell prompt# bin/withlist -l fredslist
Loading list fredslist (locked)
The variable `m' is the fredslist MailList instance
>>> del m.members['judie at PromotionalSolutions.biz']
>>> m.members['judie at promotionalsolutions.biz'] = 0
>>> m.Save()
>>>             (enter a control-D here)
Unlocking (but not saving) list: fredslist
Finalizing
shell prompt# 


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ler at lerctr.org  Sat Oct 14 01:46:47 2006
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 18:46:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lost emails
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610131639500234039e2f7c@Notebook>
Message-ID: <000601c6ef21$de7cd500$3d29010a@SURGIENT.COM>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Larry Rosenman wrote:
>> 
>> [root at gothamweb01 fredslist]# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/dumpdb config.pck
>>> grep judie
>>                   'judie at PromotionalSolutions.biz': 0,
>> [root at gothamweb01 fredslist]# 
>> 
>> How can I delete this easily when all the tricks on that page fail
>> with the not a member.....
> 
> 
> shell prompt# bin/withlist -l fredslist
> Loading list fredslist (locked)
> The variable `m' is the fredslist MailList instance
>>>> del m.members['judie at PromotionalSolutions.biz']
>>>> m.members['judie at promotionalsolutions.biz'] = 0
>>>> m.Save()
>>>>             (enter a control-D here)
> Unlocking (but not saving) list: fredslist Finalizing shell prompt#

Gracia, Senor.

That did it :) 

List fixed. 

Thanks!



-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 512-248-2683             E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 430 Valona Loop, Round Rock, TX 78681-3893



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 14 01:53:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 16:53:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lost emails
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610131639500234039e2f7c@Notebook>
Message-ID: <PC176020061013165305009324feaec2@Notebook>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Larry Rosenman wrote:
>>
>>[root at gothamweb01 fredslist]# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/dumpdb config.pck |grep
>>judie
>>                   'judie at PromotionalSolutions.biz': 0,
>>[root at gothamweb01 fredslist]#


Don't do what I suggested in my prior reply if the above is a true
representation of the output from the command. If
'judie at PromotionalSolutions.biz' is a list member, in addition to
being in the 'members' dictionary, her address should also appear in
the 'language', 'passwords', user_options' and possibly the
'usernames' dictionaries. If it is only in the 'members' dictionary,
it should just be deleted, so see below


>>How can I delete this easily when all the tricks on that page fail with the
>>not a member.....
>
>
>shell prompt# bin/withlist -l fredslist
>Loading list fredslist (locked)
>The variable `m' is the fredslist MailList instance
>>>> del m.members['judie at PromotionalSolutions.biz']

Do do the above line, but do not do the line below.

>>>> m.members['judie at promotionalsolutions.biz'] = 0

after skipping the line above, do the rest.

>>>> m.Save()
>>>>             (enter a control-D here)
>Unlocking (but not saving) list: fredslist
>Finalizing
>shell prompt# 

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tracey at fairhousing.com  Sat Oct 14 04:19:40 2006
From: tracey at fairhousing.com (Tracey McCartney)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 21:19:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic notifications not going out
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20061013210944.05232628@getmail.mccartney.net>

I own/moderate several Mailman lists hosted by Inmotion Hosting.  In other words, I don't run the server. :)  The mailman installation on the server we're using will not send out automatic notifications.  I don't think any of the lists I've ever run on my Inmotion account have ever sent out a monthly password reminder, and recently I also stopped getting moderator notices.

I can kick out a password reminder manually from a listmember's page, so Mailman clearly has the ability to send stuff, but it's not doing it automatically like it should.

I pointed the techs at Inmotion to this:  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#6.14  Unfortunately, the techs there don't even know how to get to the list config page, much less fix this problem.  They've restarted Mailman twice and they "ran a script on the VPS," whatever that means.  It hasn't helped.  

Any suggestions I can pass along to them?  Would you suggest to me that I find a better host? :)


Thanks,

Tracey


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.3/474 - Release Date: 10/13/2006






From nospam at codegnome.org  Sat Oct 14 05:23:16 2006
From: nospam at codegnome.org (Todd A. Jacobs)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 20:23:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VERP with Postfix recipient_delimiter of "-"
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610121434320562477dbc12@Notebook>
References: <20061012151846.GA30590@penguin.codegnome.org>
	<PC1760200610121434320562477dbc12@Notebook>
Message-ID: <20061014032316.GC20879@penguin.codegnome.org>

On Thu, Oct 12, 2006 at 02:34:32PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Default Mailman settings use a VERP delimiter of '+', not '-'. It is

Not exactly. By default, Mailman expects that the MTA uses a plus, and
not a minus, but it shouldn't be hard-coded. Qmail, for example,
defaults to using a minus as a delimiter; are you saying VERP can't be
done with qmail, either?

> not practical to use '-' because of conflicts with the listname-*
> addresses (although I don't know much about Postfix so I may not be

This doesn't make any sense. As long as the various lists and
list-extensions are in the alias file, and the VERP address is properly
constructed as an extension of a list address, the mail should get
delivered to Mailman. Something may need to be tweaked, but I can't
believe it's not *possible*.

> What do you mean by this? Do you mean that password reminders and
> subscription invitations/confirmations are not VERPed?

I mean nothing outgoing, including comfirmation messages, are VERPed. As
I understand it, VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL should only be set to 1 if you
want *every* email to be VERPed, not just the confirmations.

> Only if you truly need the VERP delimiter to be other than '+'.

Yes, I truly do.

-- 
Unabashedly littering the information superhighway with detritus like
this for over 15 years now.


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 14 05:58:57 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 20:58:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VERP with Postfix recipient_delimiter of "-"
In-Reply-To: <20061014032316.GC20879@penguin.codegnome.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602006101320585708281e92b7f5@Notebook>

Todd A. Jacobs wrote:

>On Thu, Oct 12, 2006 at 02:34:32PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Default Mailman settings use a VERP delimiter of '+', not '-'. It is
>
>Not exactly. By default, Mailman expects that the MTA uses a plus, and
>not a minus, but it shouldn't be hard-coded.


It's not hard coded. It's in the settings for VERP_FORMAT, VERP_REGEXP,
VERP_PROBE_FORMAT, VERP_PROBE_REGEXP VERP_CONFIRM_FORMAT and
VERP_CONFIRM_REGEXP, and it defaults to a '+'.


>Qmail, for example,
>defaults to using a minus as a delimiter; are you saying VERP can't be
>done with qmail, either?


I didn't say Mailman's 'VERP' could or could not be used with any MTA.
I said

>> not practical to use '-' because of conflicts with the listname-*
>> addresses (although I don't know much about Postfix so I may not be
>
>This doesn't make any sense. As long as the various lists and
>list-extensions are in the alias file, and the VERP address is properly
>constructed as an extension of a list address, the mail should get
>delivered to Mailman. Something may need to be tweaked, but I can't
>believe it's not *possible*.


And if you use '-' does listname-bounces-user-name=example.com at ... get
delivered to listname or to listname-bounces or listname-bounces-user?
If you can arrange for your MTA to always deliver it to
listname-bounces, then there is no problem with using '-' as a
delimiter.


>> What do you mean by this? Do you mean that password reminders and
>> subscription invitations/confirmations are not VERPed?
>
>I mean nothing outgoing, including comfirmation messages, are VERPed. As
>I understand it, VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL should only be set to 1 if you
>want *every* email to be VERPed, not just the confirmations.


Well, what do YOU want? And what Mailman version is this? Prior to
Mailman 2.1.6, VERP_CONFIRMATIONS applied only to invitations and not
to other confirmations.


>> Only if you truly need the VERP delimiter to be other than '+'.
>
>Yes, I truly do.


Then you can set

VERP_FORMAT = '%(bounces)s~%(mailbox)s=%(host)s'
VERP_REGEXP =
r'^(?P<bounces>[^~]+?)\~(?P<mailbox>[^=]+)=(?P<host>[^@]+)@.*$'
VERP_PROBE_FORMAT = '%(bounces)s~%(token)s'
VERP_PROBE_REGEXP = r'^(?P<bounces>[^~]+?)\~(?P<token>[^@]+)@.*$'
VERP_CONFIRM_FORMAT = '%(addr)s~%(cookie)s'
VERP_CONFIRM_REGEXP = r'^(.*<)?(?P<addr>[^~]+?)\~(?P<cookie>[^@]+)@.*$'

in mm_cfg.py where '~' represents the delimiter you want to use, but if
that character is '-' the *_REGEXP settings will need further tweaking
to avoid matching the '-' in listname-bounces and listname-request.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From joasia at redakcja.esensja.pl  Sat Oct 14 13:36:36 2006
From: joasia at redakcja.esensja.pl (Jo'Asia)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 13:36:36 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning attachment of the held mail *OFF*?
Message-ID: <3510019747.20061014133636@redakcja.esensja.pl>

I'm an administrator for a few mailman-based lists.

Since the upgrade to v. 2.1.5 I can't find an option to *not* attach
the held mail to the 'X post from Y requires approval' messages.

The result is this: a list has the size threshold set to 500KB, a
large message (say 15MB) arrives and it happens to be something that
should be accepted. So I get first the 'requires aprroval' notice with
an 15MB attachment, I approve it, and then I get - surpise! - the 15MB
mail.

And there are those people who read the 'held for approval' response,
understand only the "it did not get through" part and are sending the
BIG mail again (and again, and again, and again...)

So - is there *any* way to turn the attachments *OFF*?

Jo'Asia

-- 
Joanna S?upek                              ---  ---  --- .--   --- " --- 
http://esensja.pl                         |--- '--  |--- |  | '--  |  --|
joasia at redakcja.esensja.pl                 --- ---'  --- |  | ---' | '--.
-------------------------------------------------------------------' ----



From benjamin at py-soft.co.uk  Sat Oct 14 14:44:33 2006
From: benjamin at py-soft.co.uk (Benjamin Donnachie)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 13:44:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Different URL PATTERNS per virtual host?
In-Reply-To: <44FAB72A.6060907@py-soft.co.uk>
References: <450DD177.8000007@py-soft.co.uk> <44FAB72A.6060907@py-soft.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4530DBB1.1010205@py-soft.co.uk>

Benjamin Donnachie wrote:
> RewriteRule ^/mailman/(.*)  https://www\.py-soft\.co\.uk/mailman/$1
> [L,R=permanent]
> Seems to work! :)

Ah... no it doesn't!  Ah well...

Ben


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 14 16:28:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 07:28:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using a remote email account as a message source
In-Reply-To: <ea1854820610131240hf149ecdyee5f2346cf634bdb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610140728320578f477d4e2@Notebook>

BigglesZX wrote:

>Okay, the problem was with my MTA - Exim was not set up to play with
>mailman, so after following the advice given in the Exim-mailman
>readme, I have made some progress. The test messages sent previously
>were being frozen by Exim because it was not correctly set up to
>handle messages to mailman.


I don't know which Exim-mailman readme you followed, but some of our
documentation is not complete. See
<http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html>.


>The problem now is with group mismatch - my mails are getting through
>to mailman but the following is returned as an error:
>
>  Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
>  wrapper script to be executed as group "daemon", but
>  the system's mail server executed the mail script as
>  group "Debian-exim".


If you are setting 'user' and 'group' in your Exim Mailman transport,
and they are not effective, it is because you are not starting Exim as
root. According to the above, you should be setting 'group' to
'daemon' or to some macro (MAILMAN_GROUP or MM_GROUP depending on what
docs you followed) which is set to 'daemon'.

If you installed from source, you could instead rerun configure with
the option --with-mail-gid=Debian-exim and then 'make install'.

There may also be some Debian package way to change the group expected
by the wrappers, but I don't know what that is.

You may find
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>
of interest.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 14 17:14:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 08:14:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning attachment of the held mail *OFF*?
In-Reply-To: <3510019747.20061014133636@redakcja.esensja.pl>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610140814560375f477d42f@Notebook>

Jo'Asia wrote:
>
>Since the upgrade to v. 2.1.5 I can't find an option to *not* attach
>the held mail to the 'X post from Y requires approval' messages.


That's because there isn't one. It is being considered as a feature for
Mailman 2.2.

In the mean time see the patch at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=760567&group_id=103&atid=300103>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From just.mailman at lesve.org  Sat Oct 14 16:58:48 2006
From: just.mailman at lesve.org (Lennart Svensson)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 16:58:48 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change Footer i email
Message-ID: <4530FB28.2070608@lesve.org>

How can I change the footer for email in one distrubition list (Not general for all lists)


	Regards



From biggleszx at gmail.com  Sat Oct 14 20:35:29 2006
From: biggleszx at gmail.com (BigglesZX)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 19:35:29 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using a remote email account as a message source
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610140728320578f477d4e2@Notebook>
References: <ea1854820610131240hf149ecdyee5f2346cf634bdb@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200610140728320578f477d4e2@Notebook>
Message-ID: <ea1854820610141135n485e8b70ic92dbba9f45b34f0@mail.gmail.com>

Okay, straying from topic further here, but you've already been so
helpful I'm hoping you might have a further solution to this :-).

I took the plunge and removed the mailman Debian package, and
installed from source. This has sorted the group mismatch problem from
before; my problem is now possibly more of an Exim issue I'm afraid,
but might still have something to do with a mailman problem.

If I use a local mail account (using mutt) to send a message to
listname at localhost, the message is passed through fine - goes out on
to the list.

If, however, I send the message to the remote account checked by
fetchmail, then run fetchmail to retrieve the message, it does not
make it to the list. Fetchmail is set up to pass on to
listname at localhost just as above, and a reading of the exim log gives
the impression that it has passed through okay, but then once the
administrative approval request mail is generated to the list admin,
that message gets frozen with the following error:

2006-10-14 19:26:57 1GYoDp-00066c-Ec ** listname-bounces at my.FQDN.com:
Unrouteable address

I thought I had configured exim to accept mail to this domain
correctly, but perhaps not - my question is why mailman won't deliver
the post to the list when it is sent in this manner.

The only difference between the two sendings is the sender's address -
the post goes through when the sender is @localhost or my FQDN - or to
put it another way, no admin message is generated when the mail
originates from the local machine. Have I missed a configuration
option relating to mail originating from the local machine?

Thanks once again for your time, and apologies for my departure from
the original topic.

   Biggs

On 14/10/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> BigglesZX wrote:
>
> >Okay, the problem was with my MTA - Exim was not set up to play with
> >mailman, so after following the advice given in the Exim-mailman
> >readme, I have made some progress. The test messages sent previously
> >were being frozen by Exim because it was not correctly set up to
> >handle messages to mailman.
>
>
> I don't know which Exim-mailman readme you followed, but some of our
> documentation is not complete. See
> <http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html>.
>
>
> >The problem now is with group mismatch - my mails are getting through
> >to mailman but the following is returned as an error:
> >
> >  Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
> >  wrapper script to be executed as group "daemon", but
> >  the system's mail server executed the mail script as
> >  group "Debian-exim".
>
>
> If you are setting 'user' and 'group' in your Exim Mailman transport,
> and they are not effective, it is because you are not starting Exim as
> root. According to the above, you should be setting 'group' to
> 'daemon' or to some macro (MAILMAN_GROUP or MM_GROUP depending on what
> docs you followed) which is set to 'daemon'.
>
> If you installed from source, you could instead rerun configure with
> the option --with-mail-gid=Debian-exim and then 'make install'.
>
> There may also be some Debian package way to change the group expected
> by the wrappers, but I don't know what that is.
>
> You may find
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>
> of interest.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
biggleszx at gmail.com
http://www.biggleszx.com/
ICQ 104870111

[ Because I used to be...

T H E B A S T A R D O P E R A T O R F R O M H E L L ! ! !

...and sometimes, late at night I get these twitches. Like dead people
get. (Or, as I prefer to call them, perfect computer users)

In the mornings I get them too. Like when the phone rings. And when I
get email. And when people talk to me. AND when people are hogging the
expresso machine to make fluffy milk. But apart from that I'm cured. A
new man. ]


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 14 21:50:22 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 12:50:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change Footer i email
In-Reply-To: <4530FB28.2070608@lesve.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020061014125022051549b83e39@Notebook>

Lennart Svensson wrote:

>How can I change the footer for email in one distrubition list (Not general for all lists)


In the list admin web interface Non-digest options->msg_footer and
Digest options->digest_footer. These can also be set from the command
line with bin/config_list.

Note that the mm_cfg.py settings DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER and
DEFAULT_DIGEST_FOOTER affect only newly created lists. They don't
affect lists that exist at the time they are set.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 15 04:06:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 19:06:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic notifications not going out
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20061013210944.05232628@getmail.mccartney.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610141906120656144e70fc@Notebook>

Tracey McCartney wrote:

>I own/moderate several Mailman lists hosted by Inmotion Hosting.  In other words, I don't run the server. :)  The mailman installation on the server we're using will not send out automatic notifications.  I don't think any of the lists I've ever run on my Inmotion account have ever sent out a monthly password reminder, and recently I also stopped getting moderator notices.


If you have admin_immed_notify on (under Notifications on the General
Options page), do you not get the immediate notices, or are you only
missing daily notices?


>I can kick out a password reminder manually from a listmember's page, so Mailman clearly has the ability to send stuff, but it's not doing it automatically like it should.
>
>I pointed the techs at Inmotion to this:  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#6.14



FAQ 6.14 has a somewhat misleading title. The real symptom of that
problem is that Mailman can't send anything at all, so it doesn't
apply in your case.


>Unfortunately, the techs there don't even know how to get to the list config page, much less fix this problem.  They've restarted Mailman twice and they "ran a script on the VPS," whatever that means.  It hasn't helped.  


VPS is probably "Virtual Private Server", but beyond that, I have no
idea what that means. I wonder if they do.


>Any suggestions I can pass along to them?


If only periodic messages such as daily admin summaries, monthly
password reminders and periodic digests are missing, it is most likely
because the Mailman cron jobs are not being run. Either the cron
daemon (crond) is not running at all on the server or there is no
crontab installed for the 'mailman' user which runs these jobs. See
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node41.html>.


>Would you suggest to me that I find a better host? :)


I think you can guess the answer to that :-)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 15 05:02:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 20:02:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration of mailinglist
In-Reply-To: <20061009143121.44760@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602006101420024308433bdc2896@Notebook>

Thomas Mladek wrote:
>
>I want to migrate a lot of lists from majordomo to mailman.
>Searching the web i found a perl script that worked for mailman 2.0
>
>http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/Current/mailman-117/mailman/contrib/majordomo2mailman.pl
>
>Is there any script working for the uptodate version of mailman?
>Or do any of you know what I have to keep in mind writing sutch a scipt? 


Sorry for not replying sooner. There have been some discussions of this
on the mailman-users list. You may find the thread starting at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-April/050558.html>
to be of interest. The OP says "We have a convert script that convert
a majordomo list to mailman - for most part, it works well." You may
be able to contact her for more information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tracey at fairhousing.com  Sun Oct 15 06:29:01 2006
From: tracey at fairhousing.com (Tracey McCartney)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 23:29:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic notifications not going out
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610141906120656144e70fc@Notebook>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20061013210944.05232628@getmail.mccartney.net>
	<PC1760200610141906120656144e70fc@Notebook>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20061014232534.04f6dc68@mail.fairhousing.com>

At 09:06 PM 10/14/2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:


>If you have admin_immed_notify on (under Notifications on the General
>Options page), do you not get the immediate notices, or are you only
>missing daily notices?
>If only periodic messages such as daily admin summaries, monthly
>password reminders and periodic digests are missing, it is most likely
>because the Mailman cron jobs are not being run. Either the cron
>daemon (crond) is not running at all on the server or there is no
>crontab installed for the 'mailman' user which runs these jobs. See
><http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node41.html>.

I don't get notices when something is in the moderation queue, and my members don't get monthly password reminders.  I do get other notices, like uncaught bounce notices and notices when someone is removed from the list.  So clearly some immediate notices are working and some aren't.  There may be more than one problem.  I'm guessing it's a misconfiguration on the part of my host, because they appear not to know ANYTHING about Mailman.

Thanks,


Tracey 


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.4/475 - Release Date: 10/13/2006






From kladizkov001 at phreaker.net  Sun Oct 15 11:09:59 2006
From: kladizkov001 at phreaker.net (Kladizkov)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:39:59 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature to export mailinglist
Message-ID: <4531FAE7.4060704@phreaker.net>

In mailman, is the feature to export the email ids in a mailinglist
missing. I needed to export my mailinglist email ids to an CSV formatted
file. How can i do this.

Kladizkov





From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 15 16:42:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 07:42:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic notifications not going out
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20061014232534.04f6dc68@mail.fairhousing.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006101507425603498f8a7195@Notebook>

Tracey McCartney wrote:
>
>I don't get notices when something is in the moderation queue, and my members don't get monthly password reminders.  I do get other notices, like uncaught bounce notices and notices when someone is removed from the list.


On the list's General Options page, is

Should the list moderators get immediate notice of new requests, as
well as daily notices about collected ones?
(Details for admin_immed_notify)
	
set to Yes?


>So clearly some immediate notices are working and some aren't.  There may be more than one problem.  I'm guessing it's a misconfiguration on the part of my host, because they appear not to know ANYTHING about Mailman.


They wouldn't be the only hosting service that offers a less than fully
functional Mailman and knows nothing about supporting it.

However, I don't know what installation/configuration problem would
cause the immediate moderator notices to be missing while other
notifications work if the above setting is Yes.

As far as the periodic notices/digests are concerned, that is most
likely some problem with the cron jobs as I indicated in my prior
reply.

Do any of your lists have periodic digests? If so, are these missing
too?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 15 16:49:13 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 07:49:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature to export mailinglist
In-Reply-To: <4531FAE7.4060704@phreaker.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610150749130605144e70ca@Notebook>

Kladizkov wrote:

>In mailman, is the feature to export the email ids in a mailinglist
>missing. I needed to export my mailinglist email ids to an CSV formatted
>file. How can i do this.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 15 20:01:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 11:01:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using a remote email account as a message source
In-Reply-To: <ea1854820610141135n485e8b70ic92dbba9f45b34f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610151101160637abdb6b0d@Notebook>

BigglesZX  wrote:
>
>If I use a local mail account (using mutt) to send a message to
>listname at localhost, the message is passed through fine - goes out on
>to the list.
>
>If, however, I send the message to the remote account checked by
>fetchmail, then run fetchmail to retrieve the message, it does not
>make it to the list. Fetchmail is set up to pass on to
>listname at localhost just as above, and a reading of the exim log gives
>the impression that it has passed through okay, but then once the
>administrative approval request mail is generated to the list admin,
>that message gets frozen with the following error:
>
>2006-10-14 19:26:57 1GYoDp-00066c-Ec ** listname-bounces at my.FQDN.com:
>Unrouteable address
>
>I thought I had configured exim to accept mail to this domain
>correctly, but perhaps not - my question is why mailman won't deliver
>the post to the list when it is sent in this manner.


I'm not really clear on what you are seeing here, but it seems that the
post via fetchmail is being held for moderator approval and the notice
to the moderator is not making it from Mailman to the moderator. Is
this correct so far?

If so, there are two issues. Why is the post held, and what happens to
the moderator notice?

If you go to the admindb web interface, do you see the post? If so,
what is the reason it is held? This info is also in the 'vette' log. I
suspect it is "implicit destination". As Patrick said very early in
this thread, you have to look at Privacy options...->Recipient filters
and either set require_explicit_destination to No or add
listname at the_remote_server.example.com to acceptable_aliases.


>The only difference between the two sendings is the sender's address -
>the post goes through when the sender is @localhost or my FQDN - or to
>put it another way, no admin message is generated when the mail
>originates from the local machine. Have I missed a configuration
>option relating to mail originating from the local machine?


How about the To: address? Is it the same in both cases, or is it
listname at local.example.com in one case and listname at remote.example.com
in the other. If the latter, see above.

As far as the notice to the admin getting stuck, I'm not sure. The
message

>2006-10-14 19:26:57 1GYoDp-00066c-Ec ** listname-bounces at my.FQDN.com:
>Unrouteable address

seems to be saying that something was sent and bounced to
listname-bounces and that address is unroutable. What does your Exim
config have for the mailman router?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tracey at fairhousing.com  Sun Oct 15 21:14:28 2006
From: tracey at fairhousing.com (Tracey McCartney)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:14:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic notifications not going out
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006101507425603498f8a7195@Notebook>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20061014232534.04f6dc68@mail.fairhousing.com>
	<PC17602006101507425603498f8a7195@Notebook>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20061015140921.05148650@mail.fairhousing.com>

At 09:42 AM 10/15/2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>On the list's General Options page, is
>
>Should the list moderators get immediate notice of new requests, as
>well as daily notices about collected ones?
>(Details for admin_immed_notify)
>        
>set to Yes?

Yes.


>Do any of your lists have periodic digests? If so, are these missing
>too?

Digests are working.  I have a second e-mail subscribed for digests only, and they kick out when they're supposed to.

Anyone know a good web host that supports Mailman well?  One of my discussion lists has about 225 people on it, and a lot of hosts disable bulk mailing because they think all large mailings are spam.



Tracey 


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.4/475 - Release Date: 10/13/2006






From atrick at prin.edu  Sun Oct 15 21:21:13 2006
From: atrick at prin.edu (Allan Trick)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:21:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail going to list archives but not to list!
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20061015142049.03280938@mail.prin.edu>

Following on to what I read in the archives of a problem Elizabeth 
Schwartz was having about a month ago, I'm having the same thing happen to me.

The last message that made it to any of our lists went out last 
Wednesday.  There are a bunch of .pck files in the qfiles/out 
directory, so I think there are messages trying to get out.  One of 
them that someone called and asked me about DOES show up in the 
archives for that list, but no one received it by email, and the .pck 
file for it is still in qfiles/out.

I looked at FAQ 3.14 and did everything I could there.  No luck.

Any advice?

Thanks,

Allan 



From raph at mankin.org.uk  Sun Oct 15 20:39:29 2006
From: raph at mankin.org.uk (Raphael Mankin)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 19:39:29 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UPgrade to 2.1.9 woes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.990.1160729700.11738.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.990.1160729700.11738.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <1160937569.8910.6.camel@mailgate.mankin.org.uk>

I recently upgraded from 2.1.8 to 2.1.9. This caused problems with the
URLs generated in the admin pages.

Previously, they used the virtual host name. After the change to 2.1.9
the URLs used the real host name, which failed in my virtual hosting
environment.

Is this known issue? Is there a work-around for it?

Second question: when are moderators likely to be able to edit postings?


From atrick at prin.edu  Sun Oct 15 20:44:29 2006
From: atrick at prin.edu (Allan Trick)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 13:44:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail going to list archives but not to list!
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20061015134148.032051a8@mail.prin.edu>

Following on to what I read in the archives of a problem Elizabeth 
Schwartz was having, I'm having the same thing happen to me.

The last message that made it to any of our lists went out last 
Wednesday.  There are a bunch of .pck files in the qfiles/out 
directory, so I think there are messages trying to get out.  One of 
them that someone called and asked me about DOES show up in the 
archives for that list, but no one received it by email, and the .pck 
file for it is still in qfiles/out.

I looked at FAQ 3.14 and did everything I could there.  No luck.

Any advice?

Thanks,

Allan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 15 22:16:39 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 13:16:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic notifications not going out
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20061015140921.05148650@mail.fairhousing.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610151316390999588f63ae@Notebook>

Tracey McCartney wrote"

>At 09:42 AM 10/15/2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>On the list's General Options page, is
>>
>>Should the list moderators get immediate notice of new requests, as
>>well as daily notices about collected ones?
>>(Details for admin_immed_notify)
>>        
>>set to Yes?
>
>Yes.
>
>
>>Do any of your lists have periodic digests? If so, are these missing
>>too?
>
>Digests are working.  I have a second e-mail subscribed for digests only, and they kick out when they're supposed to.


I'm out of ideas. To debug this further, I think we'd need access to
logs and other information on the server, which I gather we don't
have. If the host admins want to persue this on this list, we'll try
to help, but I gather from <http://www.inmotionhosting.com/> that this
may be a cPanel Mailman in which case see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.


>Anyone know a good web host that supports Mailman well?  One of my discussion lists has about 225 people on it, and a lot of hosts disable bulk mailing because they think all large mailings are spam.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp>.

Unfortunately, we've seen reports on this list of hosts that offer
Mailman lists and then don't allow lists of more than 100+/- members
to work because of outgoing SMTP limits. Note: I am not trying to
imply that any of the hosts you may find via the links in the above
FAQ would be in this category.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 15 22:23:47 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 13:23:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail going to list archives but not to list!
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20061015142049.03280938@mail.prin.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610151323470143b211b6be@Notebook>

Allan Trick wrote:
>
>The last message that made it to any of our lists went out last 
>Wednesday.  There are a bunch of .pck files in the qfiles/out 
>directory, so I think there are messages trying to get out.  One of 
>them that someone called and asked me about DOES show up in the 
>archives for that list, but no one received it by email, and the .pck 
>file for it is still in qfiles/out.
>
>I looked at FAQ 3.14 and did everything I could there.  No luck.


Is OutgoingRunner running? If not, are there any messages in Mailman's
'qrunner' log indicating why or when it stopped?

Are there any recent entries in Mailman's 'error', 'smtp', and
'smtp-failure' logs?

Have you tried 'bin/mailmanctl restart'?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 15 22:49:11 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 13:49:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UPgrade to 2.1.9 woes
In-Reply-To: <1160937569.8910.6.camel@mailgate.mankin.org.uk>
Message-ID: <PC17602006101513491108480b79a79b@Notebook>

Raphael Mankin wrote:

>I recently upgraded from 2.1.8 to 2.1.9. This caused problems with the
>URLs generated in the admin pages.
>
>Previously, they used the virtual host name. After the change to 2.1.9
>the URLs used the real host name, which failed in my virtual hosting
>environment.


This comes from the list's web_page_url attribute which shouldn't have
been touched by any part of the upgrade process.

Did anyone run fix_url?


>Is this known issue? Is there a work-around for it?


First I've heard of it.  Make sure that various settings such as
DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN and add_virtualhost() are as
they should be and then run fix_url. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>.


>Second question: when are moderators likely to be able to edit postings?


All I can tell you is it's on the list <http://www.list.org/todo.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From atrick at prin.edu  Sun Oct 15 23:43:53 2006
From: atrick at prin.edu (Allan Trick)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 16:43:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail going to list archives but not to  list!
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610151323470143b211b6be@Notebook>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20061015142049.03280938@mail.prin.edu>
	<PC1760200610151323470143b211b6be@Notebook>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20061015161954.03480de8@mail.prin.edu>

At 03:23 PM 10/15/2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Is OutgoingRunner running? If not, are there any messages in 
>Mailman's 'qrunner' log indicating why or when it stopped?

I think so.  See below.

>Have you tried 'bin/mailmanctl restart'?

Yes, to no avail.  When I do that, this is what is logged in the qrunner log:

>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3753) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGINT.  Stopping.
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (1662) Master watcher caught SIGINT.  Restarting.
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3752) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGINT.  Stopping.
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3754) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGINT.  Stopping.
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3753) NewsRunner qrunner exiting.
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3756) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGINT.  Stopping.
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3752) VirginRunner qrunner exiting.
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3756) CommandRunner qrunner exiting.
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3757) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGINT.  Stopping.
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3757) BounceRunner qrunner exiting.
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3751) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGINT.  Stopping.
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3751) RetryRunner qrunner exiting.
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (1662) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 3756, sig: None, sts: 2, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3755) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGINT.  Stopping.
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3754) ArchRunner qrunner exiting.
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3755) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (1662) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 3757, sig: None, sts: 2, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (1662) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 3753, sig: None, sts: 2, class: NewsRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (1662) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 3755, sig: None, sts: 2, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (1662) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 3751, sig: None, sts: 2, class: RetryRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (1662) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 3754, sig: None, sts: 2, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (1662) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 3752, sig: None, sts: 2, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (8830) NewsRunner qrunner started.
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (8828) CommandRunner qrunner started.
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (8832) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (8833) RetryRunner qrunner started.
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (8834) ArchRunner qrunner started.
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (8829) BounceRunner qrunner started.
>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (8835) VirginRunner qrunner started.

>Are there any recent entries in Mailman's 'error', 'smtp', and 
>'smtp-failure' logs?

No - no entries in smtp since last Wednesday (but Mailman still 
archives attempts to send out, as if they went).  However, the error 
log is a bit strange.  This is how it starts, exactly:

>Jan 15 12:15:36 2004 mailmanctl(24486): Primary start-up and 
>shutdown script for Mailman's qrunner daemon.
>
>This script starts, stops, and restarts the main Mailman queue runners, making
>sure that the various long-running qrunners are still alive and kicking.  It
>does this by forking and exec'ing the qrunners and waiting on their pids.
>When it detects a subprocess has exited, it may restart it.
>
>The qrunners respond to SIGINT, SIGTERM, and SIGHUP.  SIGINT and SIGTERM both
>cause the qrunners to exit cleanly, but the master will only restart qrunners
>that have exited due to a SIGINT.  SIGHUP causes the master and the qrunners
>to close their log files, and reopen then upon the next printed message.
>
>The master also responds to SIGINT, SIGTERM, and SIGHUP, which it simply
>passes on to the qrunners (note that the master will close and reopen its own
>log files on receipt of a SIGHUP).  The master also leaves its own process id
>in the file data/master-qrunner.pid but you normally don't need to use this
>pid directly.  The `start', `stop', `restart', and `reopen' commands handle
>everything for you.
>
>Usage: ./mailmanctl [options] [ start | stop | restart | reopen ]
>
>Options:
>
>     -n/--no-restart
>         Don't restart the qrunners when they exit because of an error or a
>         SIGINT.  They are never restarted if they exit in response to a
>         SIGTERM.  Use this only for debugging.  Only useful if the `start'
>         command is given.
>
>     -u/--run-as-user
>         Normally, this script will refuse to run if the user id and group id
>         are not set to the `mailman' user and group (as defined when you
>         configured Mailman).  If run as root, this script will change to this
>         user and group before the check is made.
>
>         This can be inconvenient for testing and debugging 
> purposes, so the -u
>         flag means that the step that sets and checks the uid/gid is skipped,
>         and the program is run as the current user and group.  This flag is
>         not recommended for normal production environments.
>
>         Note though, that if you run with -u and are not in the 
> mailman group,
>         you may have permission problems, such as begin unable to delete a
>         list's archives through the web.  Tough luck!
>
>     -s/--stale-lock-cleanup
>         If mailmanctl finds an existing master lock, it will normally exit
>         with an error message.  With this option, mailmanctl will perform an
>         extra level of checking.  If a process matching the 
> host/pid described
>         in the lock file is running, mailmanctl will still exit, but if no
>         matching process is found, mailmanctl will remove the 
> apparently stale
>         lock and make another attempt to claim the master lock.
>
>     -q/--quiet
>         Don't print status messages.  Error messages are still printed to
>         standard error.
>
>     -h/--help
>         Print this message and exit.
>
>Commands:
>
>     start   - Start the master daemon and all qrunners.  Prints a message and
>               exits if the master daemon is already running.
>
>     stop    - Stops the master daemon and all qrunners.  After stopping, no
>               more messages will be processed.
>
>     restart - Restarts the qrunners, but not the master process.  Use this
>               whenever you upgrade or update Mailman so that the 
> qrunners will
>               use the newly installed code.
>
>     reopen  - This will close all log files, causing them to be re-opened the
>               next time a message is written to them
>Jan 15 12:15:36 2004 mailmanctl(24486):
>Jan 15 12:15:36 2004 mailmanctl(24486): No command given.
>Jan 15 12:17:25 2004 mailmanctl(24740): No child with pid: 22488
>Jan 15 12:17:25 2004 mailmanctl(24740): [Errno 3] No such process
>Jan 15 12:17:25 2004 mailmanctl(24740): Stale pid file removed.
>Jan 15 12:25:00 2004 qrunner(25779): Run one or more qrunners, once 
>or repeatedly.
>
>Each named runner class is run in round-robin fashion.  In other words, the
>first named runner is run to consume all the files currently in its
>directory.  When that qrunner is done, the next one is run to consume all the
>files in /its/ directory, and so on.  The number of total iterations can be
>given on the command line.
>
>Usage: ./qrunner [options]
>
>Options:

. . . . <snip> . . . .

Does look like I expect it should.  Does this look like corruption 
that may have something to do with my problem?

Thx,

Allan

P.S.  Sorry about the duplicate post of my original message!  I 
wasn't sure I was subscribed.  My message didn't appear for many 
minutes so I thought there was a problem. 



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 16 00:19:07 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 15:19:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail going to list archives but not to  list!
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20061015161954.03480de8@mail.prin.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610151519070458c9e12451@Notebook>

Allan Trick wrote:

>At 03:23 PM 10/15/2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>Is OutgoingRunner running? If not, are there any messages in 
>>Mailman's 'qrunner' log indicating why or when it stopped?
>
>I think so.  See below.
>
>>Have you tried 'bin/mailmanctl restart'?
>
>Yes, to no avail.  When I do that, this is what is logged in the qrunner log:
>
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3753) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGINT.  Stopping.
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (1662) Master watcher caught SIGINT.  Restarting.
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3752) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGINT.  Stopping.
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3754) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGINT.  Stopping.
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3753) NewsRunner qrunner exiting.
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3756) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGINT.  Stopping.
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3752) VirginRunner qrunner exiting.
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3756) CommandRunner qrunner exiting.
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3757) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGINT.  Stopping.
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3757) BounceRunner qrunner exiting.
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3751) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGINT.  Stopping.
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3751) RetryRunner qrunner exiting.
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (1662) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>>(pid: 3756, sig: None, sts: 2, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3755) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGINT.  Stopping.
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3754) ArchRunner qrunner exiting.
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (3755) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (1662) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>>(pid: 3757, sig: None, sts: 2, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (1662) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>>(pid: 3753, sig: None, sts: 2, class: NewsRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (1662) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>>(pid: 3755, sig: None, sts: 2, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (1662) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>>(pid: 3751, sig: None, sts: 2, class: RetryRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (1662) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>>(pid: 3754, sig: None, sts: 2, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (1662) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>>(pid: 3752, sig: None, sts: 2, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (8830) NewsRunner qrunner started.
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (8828) CommandRunner qrunner started.
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (8832) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (8833) RetryRunner qrunner started.
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (8834) ArchRunner qrunner started.
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (8829) BounceRunner qrunner started.
>>Oct 15 16:24:25 2006 (8835) VirginRunner qrunner started.


OutgoingRunner is missing. there are no 'caught SIGINT', 'exiting',
'[restarting]' or 'started' entries for it.

What is in the qrunner log prior to this? Presumably there are entries
from last Wednesday indicating its 'restart limit' was reached.

Does 'ps -fAw | grep Runner' (or however you spell it on your system)
show OutgoingRunner?

Try

bin/mailmanctl stop

Then make sure all Mailman processes are stopped per
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp>

then do

bin/mailmanctl start

If that doesn't get things going, check the qrunner and error logs.

>>Are there any recent entries in Mailman's 'error', 'smtp', and 
>>'smtp-failure' logs?
>
>No - no entries in smtp since last Wednesday (but Mailman still 
>archives attempts to send out, as if they went).


Archiving is separate from sending.


>However, the error 
>log is a bit strange.  This is how it starts, exactly:
>
>>Jan 15 12:15:36 2004 mailmanctl(24486): Primary start-up and 
>>shutdown script for Mailman's qrunner daemon.
>>
>>This script starts, stops, and restarts the main Mailman queue runners, making
<snip>
>>               next time a message is written to them
>>Jan 15 12:15:36 2004 mailmanctl(24486):
>>Jan 15 12:15:36 2004 mailmanctl(24486): No command given.
>>Jan 15 12:17:25 2004 mailmanctl(24740): No child with pid: 22488
>>Jan 15 12:17:25 2004 mailmanctl(24740): [Errno 3] No such process
>>Jan 15 12:17:25 2004 mailmanctl(24740): Stale pid file removed.
>>Jan 15 12:25:00 2004 qrunner(25779): Run one or more qrunners, once 
>>or repeatedly.
>>
>>Each named runner class is run in round-robin fashion.  In other words, the
>>first named runner is run to consume all the files currently in its
>>directory.  When that qrunner is done, the next one is run to consume all the
>>files in /its/ directory, and so on.  The number of total iterations can be
>>given on the command line.
>>
>>Usage: ./qrunner [options]
>>
>>Options:
>
>. . . . <snip> . . . .
>
>Does look like I expect it should.  Does this look like corruption 
>that may have something to do with my problem?


No, it has nothing to do with your problem. These entries are from Jan
2004 and they represent the 'help' output from bin/mailmanctl and
bin/qrunner. Possibly this was during initial installation of Mailman.
I think they represent these processes being run as a service without
a controlling terminal and sending this output to the error log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From atrick at prin.edu  Mon Oct 16 00:56:41 2006
From: atrick at prin.edu (Allan Trick)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 17:56:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail going to list archives but not to   list!
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610151519070458c9e12451@Notebook>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20061015161954.03480de8@mail.prin.edu>
	<PC1760200610151519070458c9e12451@Notebook>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20061015175003.034bd000@mail.prin.edu>

At 05:19 PM 10/15/2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>OutgoingRunner is missing. there are no 'caught SIGINT', 'exiting',
>'[restarting]' or 'started' entries for it.
>
>What is in the qrunner log prior to this? Presumably there are entries
>from last Wednesday indicating its 'restart limit' was reached.

That's it, Mark! --

Oct 11 15:47:03 2006 (1662) Qrunner OutgoingRunner reached maximum 
restart limit of 10, not restarting.

>Try
>
>bin/mailmanctl stop
>
>Then make sure all Mailman processes are stopped per
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp>
>
>then do
>
>bin/mailmanctl start

Everything's humming along great now.

I thought "restart" would do the same as "stop" and "start", but I guess not!

Good learning experience for me (and maybe others reading this)...

Thanks,

Allan 



From nerrick at nerrick.com  Mon Oct 16 19:04:34 2006
From: nerrick at nerrick.com (Jason Snodgrass)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 10:04:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom Sign-Up Form
Message-ID: <4533BBA2.8040803@nerrick.com>

I want to have a simple form that has an e-mail address field and a 
submit button to add users to my mailing list. I have tried editing the 
existing form to give me what I need but I haven't been successful. Does 
any one have some sample code that they have used to do this?



From atrick at prin.edu  Mon Oct 16 19:43:57 2006
From: atrick at prin.edu (Allan Trick)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 12:43:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two footers appearing in messages
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20061015175003.034bd000@mail.prin.edu>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20061015161954.03480de8@mail.prin.edu>
	<PC1760200610151519070458c9e12451@Notebook>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20061015175003.034bd000@mail.prin.edu>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20061016122847.02e6b400@mail.prin.edu>

I've got some lists which go two deep, and two footers (saying how to 
unsubscribe, etc.).  A group of parents (we're a school) are on 
different lists, depending on if their child is boarding in our dorms 
or if they are a day student.  So we have a group of senior parents 
whose children are graduating in 2007 either on list "2007day" or 
"2007boarder" - and each of those list names are members of another 
list called "2007".  Teachers can therefore send a message to just 
"2007" and reach ALL parents; or they can write to just the boarder 
parents by writing only to "2007boarder".

When the message goes to "2007", there are TWO footers at the bottom 
of the message:  one with the URL to the parent's own Mailman page, 
and one to the page for whichever list they're on (boarder or 
day).  To get rid of the extra footer, is it safe for me to check 
"disabled" for message delivery on the "member" pages for the two 
list names which are under the main "2007" list?  Or would that 
affect all messages going to the parents?

Thx,
Allan 



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 16 19:41:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 10:41:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom Sign-Up Form
In-Reply-To: <4533BBA2.8040803@nerrick.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610161041380062e45f8144@Notebook>

Jason Snodgrass wrote:

>I want to have a simple form that has an e-mail address field and a 
>submit button to add users to my mailing list. I have tried editing the 
>existing form to give me what I need but I haven't been successful. Does 
>any one have some sample code that they have used to do this?


See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.033.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Mon Oct 16 20:03:50 2006
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 20:03:50 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom Sign-Up Form
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610161041380062e45f8144@Notebook>
References: <PC1760200610161041380062e45f8144@Notebook>
Message-ID: <20061016195523.O64036@192.168.11.51>

hello,

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>> I want to have a simple form that has an e-mail address field and a
>> submit button to add users to my mailing list. I have tried editing the
>> existing form to give me what I need but I haven't been successful. Does
>> any one have some sample code that they have used to do this?
> See
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.033.htp>.

In theory this is possible but you will later stumble with mailman 
generated pages. You will need to edit them. Much can be done within the 
administrative panel for the given list. So, in other words this is not 
the whole story.

Using this opportunity, has anyone thought of really making all these 
pages simpler, less jargon-free and more understandable for a typical, 
non-technical user?

Warm regards,

--
Zbigniew Szalbot


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 16 20:45:13 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:45:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two footers appearing in messages
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20061016122847.02e6b400@mail.prin.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602006101611451303751a6a5544@Notebook>

Allan Trick wrote:

>I've got some lists which go two deep, and two footers (saying how to 
>unsubscribe, etc.).  A group of parents (we're a school) are on 
>different lists, depending on if their child is boarding in our dorms 
>or if they are a day student.  So we have a group of senior parents 
>whose children are graduating in 2007 either on list "2007day" or 
>"2007boarder" - and each of those list names are members of another 
>list called "2007".  Teachers can therefore send a message to just 
>"2007" and reach ALL parents; or they can write to just the boarder 
>parents by writing only to "2007boarder".


So the "2007" list is an umbrella list. It should be so indicated on
its General Options page so that adinistrative messages such as
password reminders for its members get sent to, e.g.,
2007day-owner at ... and not to the whole 2007day at ... list.

Note that all the members of an umbrella list should be other lists and
not individuals. Lists which have a combination of other lists and
individuals as members are hard to manage well.


>When the message goes to "2007", there are TWO footers at the bottom 
>of the message:  one with the URL to the parent's own Mailman page, 
>and one to the page for whichever list they're on (boarder or 
>day).  To get rid of the extra footer, is it safe for me to check 
>"disabled" for message delivery on the "member" pages for the two 
>list names which are under the main "2007" list?  Or would that 
>affect all messages going to the parents?


No. If you disabled delivery for '2007day' and '2007boarder' on the
'2007' list, messages sent to the '2007' list would not reach the
sublists at all.

What you need to do is remove all the text from msg_footer on the
Non-digest options page of the '2007' list. Then the only footer that
will be added to messages will be the appropriate footer from the
sub-list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From atrick at prin.edu  Mon Oct 16 20:55:39 2006
From: atrick at prin.edu (Allan Trick)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 13:55:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two footers appearing in messages
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006101611451303751a6a5544@Notebook>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20061016122847.02e6b400@mail.prin.edu>
	<PC17602006101611451303751a6a5544@Notebook>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20061016135308.02f98ce0@mail.prin.edu>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>So the "2007" list is an umbrella list. It should be so indicated on
>its General Options page so that adinistrative messages such as
>password reminders for its members get sent to, e.g.,
>2007day-owner at ... and not to the whole 2007day at ... list.

Correct.  It's an umbrella list, and I've changed that radio button 
to Yes now for sending reminders to the owner.

>Note that all the members of an umbrella list should be other lists and
>not individuals. Lists which have a combination of other lists and
>individuals as members are hard to manage well.

Also correct.  We have no regular users - just list names - as 
members on these lists.

>If you disabled delivery for '2007day' and '2007boarder' on the
>'2007' list, messages sent to the '2007' list would not reach the
>sublists at all.

That's what I was afraid of, and why I thought I'd better consult the 
experts here before doing anything like that!

>What you need to do is remove all the text from msg_footer on the
>Non-digest options page of the '2007' list. Then the only footer that
>will be added to messages will be the appropriate footer from the
>sub-list.

Great idea.  I've done it and when the next broadcast blast goes out 
I'll watch to see what happens.  I'm sure this will fix it.

Thanks so much, Mark!

Allan



From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Mon Oct 16 21:54:13 2006
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:54:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Template Token Hell
Message-ID: <20061016195413.GA28235@fmp.com>

I'm trying to do a bit of work with Mailman templates.  I've hacked the Mailman 
archiving facility to handle PHP, and have done a bit of work to integrate 
namazu more seamlessly with Mailman (see http://www.fmp.com/namazu) but I'm up 
against a veritable jungle of different substitution tokens in different 
templates.  %(listname)s is the equivalent of the Python Mailman var real_name 
(the "pretty" name) in some places, while in others %(list_name)s is the 
lower-case name used for directories.  Yet other templates use replacement 
sequences that are more like HTML tags, e.g. "<MM-List-Name>".

A.  Is there any reference (other than reading code) where all these are
    defined for the different contexts in which they occur?

B.  Is there any plan to organize this mess into something more logical?

In particular, I'm trying to find out if there's a lower case version of the 
list name available in archtocnombox.html and archtoc.html (where %(listname)s 
is the "pretty" name selected by the list administrator), and what other 
substitution tokens are available in the context of these two templates.  
Because I've hacked these two templates to use PHP in both public and private 
archives, I can do a PHP strtolower() call on the string when the index.html 
file derived from the template is served, but without this hack we have a
problem with namazu.

Using the system described at 
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037580.html, the 
namazu CGI and its config program are localized in ~mailman/cgi-bin/listname/ 
but listname is the "pretty" name, so if I set up namazu for one of my lists 
and the list administrator changes the capitalization in the real_name, the 
archive search breaks.

Maybe I oughta post this on the dev list.  Can anyone here answer it?  Brad, 
maybe I'll see you Thursday and you can answer this personally.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Fighting against human |     PGP public key
FMP Computer Services |    creativity is like   |      available at
512-259-1190          |    trying to eradicate  | <http://pubkeys.fmp.com>
http://www.fmp.com    |        dandelions"      |
                      |      (Pamela Jones)     |


From chad at shire.net  Mon Oct 16 22:21:30 2006
From: chad at shire.net (Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:21:30 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two footers appearing in messages
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006101611451303751a6a5544@Notebook>
References: <PC17602006101611451303751a6a5544@Notebook>
Message-ID: <666BC17C-5A0E-4284-A9A2-FAB83E0A0E88@shire.net>


On Oct 16, 2006, at 12:45 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Note that all the members of an umbrella list should be other lists  
> and
> not individuals. Lists which have a combination of other lists and
> individuals as members are hard to manage well.
>

I have a list where everyone on the list is an individual except for  
one list.  If I set that one lists  membership to not get password  
reminders sent to it, we should be all set, right?

Chad

---
Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC
Your Web App and Email hosting provider
chad at shire.net



---
Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC
Your Web App and Email hosting provider
chad at shire.net




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 16 23:07:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:07:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Template Token Hell
In-Reply-To: <20061016195413.GA28235@fmp.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610161407580953b0be5e53@Notebook>

Lindsay Haisley wrote:

>I'm up 
>against a veritable jungle of different substitution tokens in different 
>templates.  %(listname)s is the equivalent of the Python Mailman var real_name 
>(the "pretty" name) in some places, while in others %(list_name)s is the 
>lower-case name used for directories.  Yet other templates use replacement 
>sequences that are more like HTML tags, e.g. "<MM-List-Name>".
>
>A.  Is there any reference (other than reading code) where all these are
>    defined for the different contexts in which they occur?


No.


>B.  Is there any plan to organize this mess into something more logical?


We recognize the problem and have some ideas that reach this area (see
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+2.2>), but no guarantees.


>In particular, I'm trying to find out if there's a lower case version of the 
>list name available in archtocnombox.html and archtoc.html (where %(listname)s 
>is the "pretty" name selected by the list administrator), and what other 
>substitution tokens are available in the context of these two templates.  


In general, the %(key_word)s substitutions are specific to any given
template that uses them and the only ones defined for a specific
template are the ones that appear in the default template.

It's pretty easy to patch the code to pass additional key_word:value
items to substitute in the template, but it does require patching the
code. See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-September/053399.html>
for more info.


>Maybe I oughta post this on the dev list.  Can anyone here answer it?


I think it's in the grey area where it could go on either list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 16 23:20:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:20:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two footers appearing in messages
In-Reply-To: <666BC17C-5A0E-4284-A9A2-FAB83E0A0E88@shire.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602006101614202301875d725252@Notebook>

Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote:
>
>I have a list where everyone on the list is an individual except for  
>one list.  If I set that one lists  membership to not get password  
>reminders sent to it, we should be all set, right?


That's likely to be OK in most environments, but someone who is on the
sub-list and really wants to know the password for the sub-list's
membership on the super-list can still go to the sub-list's options
login page for the super-list and request a password reminder.

When I said "Lists which have a combination of other lists and
individuals as members are hard to manage well." I was thinking more
in terms of the OP's multiple footer issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From just.mailman at lesve.org  Tue Oct 17 00:38:15 2006
From: just.mailman at lesve.org (Lennart Svensson)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 00:38:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error in crontab
Message-ID: <453409D7.6090500@lesve.org>

I got the following error (or warning):

/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py:175: DeprecationWarning: get_type() deprecated; use get_content_type()
  ctype = part.get_type(part.get_default_type())


Using Mailman from Ubuntu distrubityion

Mailman version 2.1.5
Python 2.4.3 (#2, Oct  6 2006, 07:52:30)



From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Tue Oct 17 00:41:16 2006
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 17:41:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Template Token Hell
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610161407580953b0be5e53@Notebook>
References: <20061016195413.GA28235@fmp.com>
	<PC1760200610161407580953b0be5e53@Notebook>
Message-ID: <20061016224116.GA29485@fmp.com>

Thus spake Mark Sapiro on Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 04:07:58PM CDT
> >In particular, I'm trying to find out if there's a lower case version of the 
> >list name available in archtocnombox.html and archtoc.html (where 
> >%(listname)s is the "pretty" name selected by the list administrator), and 
> >what other substitution tokens are available in the context of these two 
> >templates.  
> 
> 
> In general, the %(key_word)s substitutions are specific to any given
> template that uses them and the only ones defined for a specific
> template are the ones that appear in the default template.
> 
> It's pretty easy to patch the code to pass additional key_word:value
> items to substitute in the template, but it does require patching the
> code. See
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-September/053399.html>
> for more info.

After I wrote the above, I looked at the code for quick_maketext() and saw 
where I could do this.  My PHP hack does the case-crunching OK for my purposes, 
but the stuff I'm putting together for Mailman/Namazu integration ought to be 
able to work without doing anything but modifying the templates.

I probably ought to file a feature request that any template which might need 
it should support a keyword which contains the results of a call to 
mlist.internal_name() - in particular archtoc.html and archtocnombox.html :-)

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Fighting against human |     PGP public key
FMP Computer Services |    creativity is like   |      available at
512-259-1190          |    trying to eradicate  | <http://pubkeys.fmp.com>
http://www.fmp.com    |        dandelions"      |
                      |      (Pamela Jones)     |


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 17 00:55:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 15:55:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error in crontab
In-Reply-To: <453409D7.6090500@lesve.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020061016155501046873d243d5@Notebook>

Lennart Svensson wrote:

>I got the following error (or warning):
>
>/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py:175: DeprecationWarning: get_type() deprecated; use get_content_type()
>  ctype = part.get_type(part.get_default_type())
>
>
>Using Mailman from Ubuntu distrubityion
>
>Mailman version 2.1.5
>Python 2.4.3 (#2, Oct  6 2006, 07:52:30)


A normal Mailman 2.1.5 installation incudes a pythonlib/ directory
which in turn contains the email 2.5.5 Python email package. The cron/
and bin/ directories contain a paths.py module which is imported by
the various scripts in those directories and which sets sys.path so
that the email package used is the one in pythonlib/.

The above warning indicates that something is missing from the above
scenario and you are getting the email 3.0.1 package from the Python
2.4.3 installation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Oct 17 01:11:28 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:11:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom Sign-Up Form
In-Reply-To: <20061016195523.O64036@192.168.11.51>
References: <PC1760200610161041380062e45f8144@Notebook>
	<20061016195523.O64036@192.168.11.51>
Message-ID: <p06240503c159c1d3b7b3@[192.168.1.102]>

At 8:03 PM +0200 10/16/06, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:

>  Using this opportunity, has anyone thought of really making all these
>  pages simpler, less jargon-free and more understandable for a typical,
>  non-technical user?

That's a wonderful idea.  However, since most of the people who 
contribute to these efforts are people who've been around for a while 
and who understand the importance of things like reading the FAQs, 
this is kind of a self-selecting community.

If you could provide some contributions in this area, that would be wonderful.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Oct 17 01:13:04 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:13:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Template Token Hell
In-Reply-To: <20061016195413.GA28235@fmp.com>
References: <20061016195413.GA28235@fmp.com>
Message-ID: <p06240504c159c246d2b7@[192.168.1.102]>

At 2:54 PM -0500 10/16/06, Lindsay Haisley wrote:

>  Maybe I oughta post this on the dev list.  Can anyone here answer it?  Brad,
>  maybe I'll see you Thursday and you can answer this personally.

Yeah, this sounds like a topic that would be appropriate for the 
mailman-developers list.  I'm no longer subscribed there (and I'm not 
sure I could be of that much help even if I was), but I'll approve 
your post as soon as I see it in the queue.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From ken at sunward.org  Tue Oct 17 03:49:11 2006
From: ken at sunward.org (Ken Winter)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 21:49:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Archives
Message-ID: <001201c6f18e$72d639d0$6703a8c0@kenxp>

Is it possible (as a list administrator/owner) to delete old archives?



From ken at sunward.org  Tue Oct 17 03:47:59 2006
From: ken at sunward.org (Ken Winter)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 21:47:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about digests
Message-ID: <000d01c6f18e$491d12d0$6703a8c0@kenxp>

Is it possible to turn off the standard header that gets put on top of
digests?  I want to replace it with my own.



From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Tue Oct 17 04:12:10 2006
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 21:12:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom Sign-Up Form
In-Reply-To: <p06240503c159c1d3b7b3@[192.168.1.102]>
References: <PC1760200610161041380062e45f8144@Notebook>
	<20061016195523.O64036@192.168.11.51>
	<p06240503c159c1d3b7b3@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <20061017021210.GE30622@fmp.com>

Thus spake Brad Knowles on Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 06:11:28PM CDT
> At 8:03 PM +0200 10/16/06, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
> 
> >  Using this opportunity, has anyone thought of really making all these
> >  pages simpler, less jargon-free and more understandable for a typical,
> >  non-technical user?
> 
> That's a wonderful idea.  However, since most of the people who 
> contribute to these efforts are people who've been around for a while 
> and who understand the importance of things like reading the FAQs, 
> this is kind of a self-selecting community.
> 
> If you could provide some contributions in this area, that would be wonderful.

Anyone that does this kind of thing is a saint!  One of my big beefs with a 
whole lot of open source software is that it's written by, for and about geeks, 
and while the work would be potentially useful to a lot of people, it's 
surrounded by a haze of geek jargon that makes it semi-impervious to 
non-technical minds.  I run Mailman lists for the Travis County Democratic 
Party in Texas, numerous other political groups, and for a couple of musical 
instrument special insterest groups.  While the list admins for these are 
reasonably tech-savvy, the list subscribers are decidedly not.  I have to 
re-work stuff a lot.

For a project I'm working on I just de-geeked the Namazu search engine example 
page, which used Emacs, FreeBSD and other techie terms as search word examples.  
I replaced all the geek words with fruits and vegetables.  Everyone understands 
fruits and vegetables ;-)

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Fighting against human |     PGP public key
FMP Computer Services |    creativity is like   |      available at
512-259-1190          |    trying to eradicate  | <http://pubkeys.fmp.com>
http://www.fmp.com    |        dandelions"      |
                      |      (Pamela Jones)     |


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 17 04:13:47 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 19:13:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Archives
In-Reply-To: <001201c6f18e$72d639d0$6703a8c0@kenxp>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610161913470703d907814e@Notebook>

Ken Winter wrote:

>Is it possible (as a list administrator/owner) to delete old archives?


No. It requires file management or command shell access to the host
machine.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Tue Oct 17 04:15:05 2006
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 21:15:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Archives
In-Reply-To: <001201c6f18e$72d639d0$6703a8c0@kenxp>
References: <001201c6f18e$72d639d0$6703a8c0@kenxp>
Message-ID: <20061017021505.GF30622@fmp.com>

Thus spake Ken Winter on Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 08:49:11PM CDT
> Is it possible (as a list administrator/owner) to delete old archives?

Yeah, you have to do it from a shell as the mailman user.

Edit ~mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox and take out what 
you don't want.  Then run, as mailman,

arch --wipe listname

> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/fmouse-mailman%40fmp.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Fighting against human |     PGP public key
FMP Computer Services |    creativity is like   |      available at
512-259-1190          |    trying to eradicate  | <http://pubkeys.fmp.com>
http://www.fmp.com    |        dandelions"      |
                      |      (Pamela Jones)     |


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 17 04:26:52 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 19:26:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about digests
In-Reply-To: <000d01c6f18e$491d12d0$6703a8c0@kenxp>
Message-ID: <PC17602006101619265202344955fb3e@Notebook>

Ken Winter wrote:

>Is it possible to turn off the standard header that gets put on top of
>digests?  I want to replace it with my own.


You can add your own, list specific header to the digests by entering
it in Digest options->digest_header in the admin web interface.

This will appear before the standard

  Send listname submissions...

  To subscribe...

  ...

  When replying...

boilerplate and the table of contents which you can't turn off.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Tue Oct 17 04:48:41 2006
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 21:48:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Archives
In-Reply-To: <20061017021505.GF30622@fmp.com>
References: <001201c6f18e$72d639d0$6703a8c0@kenxp>
	<20061017021505.GF30622@fmp.com>
Message-ID: <20061017024841.GG30622@fmp.com>

But Mark's right.  You can't do it as the list admin or owner from the web UI, 
which is probably a more accurate answer to your question.

Thus spake Lindsay Haisley on Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 09:15:05PM CDT
> Thus spake Ken Winter on Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 08:49:11PM CDT
> > Is it possible (as a list administrator/owner) to delete old archives?
> 
> Yeah, you have to do it from a shell as the mailman user.
> 
> Edit ~mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox and take out what 
> you don't want.  Then run, as mailman,
> 
> arch --wipe listname

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Fighting against human |     PGP public key
FMP Computer Services |    creativity is like   |      available at
512-259-1190          |    trying to eradicate  | <http://pubkeys.fmp.com>
http://www.fmp.com    |        dandelions"      |
                      |      (Pamela Jones)     |


From ken at sunward.org  Tue Oct 17 05:17:32 2006
From: ken at sunward.org (Ken Winter)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 23:17:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Archives
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610161913470703d907814e@Notebook>
Message-ID: <002c01c6f19a$cbe2bdd0$6703a8c0@kenxp>

OK, I went to the host and deleted the files 2006-September (a folder),
2006-september.txt, and 2006-September.txt.gz.  Alas, the 9/06 archive is
still listed on the web page.  I guess I have to edit index.html in that
folder as well.  

This all is rather tedious, and pretty much fatal to my hope to farm this
level of task out to non-techie list administrators who only have the skills
(and permissions!) to work via the web administrative interface.

Is this the forum to request enhancements?

~ Thanks
~ Ken

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
    Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 10:14 PM
    To: Ken Winter; mailman-users at python.org
    Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Archives
    
    Ken Winter wrote:
    
    >Is it possible (as a list administrator/owner) to delete old archives?
    
    
    No. It requires file management or command shell access to the host
    machine.
    
    --
    Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan





From chad at shire.net  Tue Oct 17 06:36:14 2006
From: chad at shire.net (Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 22:36:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two footers appearing in messages
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006101614202301875d725252@Notebook>
References: <PC17602006101614202301875d725252@Notebook>
Message-ID: <63C58B1E-D3F5-4025-A157-5D9C3322F5B7@shire.net>


On Oct 16, 2006, at 3:20 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote:
>>
>> I have a list where everyone on the list is an individual except for
>> one list.  If I set that one lists  membership to not get password
>> reminders sent to it, we should be all set, right?
>
>
> That's likely to be OK in most environments, but someone who is on the
> sub-list and really wants to know the password for the sub-list's
> membership on the super-list can still go to the sub-list's options
> login page for the super-list and request a password reminder.
>
> When I said "Lists which have a combination of other lists and
> individuals as members are hard to manage well." I was thinking more
> in terms of the OP's multiple footer issue.

OK, thanks. I think we can live with that.  Worst that can happen is  
someone messes up a setting, and these users are more artistic and  
less technical types anyway.

We have the double footer issue, which is what caught my eye, but we  
don't care much.

Thanks
Chad
---
Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC
Your Web App and Email hosting provider
chad at shire.net




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 17 06:42:04 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 21:42:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Archives
In-Reply-To: <002c01c6f19a$cbe2bdd0$6703a8c0@kenxp>
Message-ID: <PC17602006101621420408432f0c6f4f@Notebook>

Ken Winter wrote:

>OK, I went to the host and deleted the files 2006-September (a folder),
>2006-september.txt, and 2006-September.txt.gz.  Alas, the 9/06 archive is
>still listed on the web page.  I guess I have to edit index.html in that
>folder as well.  


It won't help. See the post at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-October/053810.html>
for a bit more on this and a link to FAQ 3.3 which describes the
method Lindsay referred to in more detail.


>This all is rather tedious, and pretty much fatal to my hope to farm this
>level of task out to non-techie list administrators who only have the skills
>(and permissions!) to work via the web administrative interface.
>
>Is this the forum to request enhancements?


No, it's not. The proper forum is
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103> or
preferably the new wiki at
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+2.2>, but your request is
already on the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kaushalshriyan at gmail.com  Tue Oct 17 08:06:09 2006
From: kaushalshriyan at gmail.com (Kaushal Shriyan)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:36:09 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailman Upgrade
Message-ID: <6b16fb4c0610162306w42099e45vc4d21c44c2be701@mail.gmail.com>

Hi ALL

I have GNU Mailman version is 2.1.8 running on my linux box, Just
wanted to know "How do i upgrade it to "The current stable GNU Mailman
version is 2.1.9, released on 12-Sep-2006"

Thanks and Regards

Kaushal


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Oct 17 08:24:42 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 15:24:42 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom Sign-Up Form
In-Reply-To: <20061017021210.GE30622@fmp.com>
References: <PC1760200610161041380062e45f8144@Notebook>
	<20061016195523.O64036@192.168.11.51>
	<p06240503c159c1d3b7b3@[192.168.1.102]>
	<20061017021210.GE30622@fmp.com>
Message-ID: <17716.30506.737526.714368@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Lindsay Haisley writes:
 > Thus spake Brad Knowles on Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 06:11:28PM CDT
 > > At 8:03 PM +0200 10/16/06, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
 > > 
 > > >  Using this opportunity, has anyone thought of really making all these
 > > >  pages simpler, less jargon-free and more understandable for a typical,
 > > >  non-technical user?

 > > That's a wonderful idea.  However, since most of the people who 
 > > contribute to these efforts are people who've been around for a while 
 > > and who understand the importance of things like reading the FAQs, 
 > > this is kind of a self-selecting community.

 > > If you could provide some contributions in this area, that would
 > > be wonderful.

 > Anyone that does this kind of thing is a saint!  One of my big
 > beefs with a whole lot of open source software is that it's written
 > by, for and about geeks....  I have to re-work stuff a lot.

So it's not all about geeks after all: it's about anybody who can
write, code *or words*!  The geeks just got there first by writing the
code.

 > For a project I'm working on I just de-geeked the Namazu search
 > engine example page, which used Emacs, FreeBSD and other techie
 > terms as search word examples.  I replaced all the geek words with
 > fruits and vegetables.  Everyone understands fruits and vegetables
 > ;-)

This is a *great* example of what to do.

I'm afraid that de-tech'ing the Mailman FAQ, however, is an example of
what *not* to do.  I think it should by and large *stay* techie.  If
you get referred to the Mailman FAQ, you are probably a list admin
with a problem.  In my experience, Mailman does very well at getting
the straightforword stuff right.  So if you do have a problem, it's
probably not straightforward.

Furthermore, email is a large complex system that is *fundamentally*
dependent on standards, which are inherently techie territory.

Sure, the FAQ could be improved.  But it seems to me that there's no
shortage of help available for admins on the list, if you look at the
FAQ but don't understand it.  I think effort in this area would be
better directed to adding more of the same quality stuff to the FAQ,
and improving the user pages and providing more examples etc that are
available with one click from the point where users are likely to get
stuck.

IMHO, YMMV, etc.



From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Tue Oct 17 09:49:37 2006
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 09:49:37 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom Sign-Up Form
In-Reply-To: <p06240503c159c1d3b7b3@[192.168.1.102]>
References: <PC1760200610161041380062e45f8144@Notebook>
	<20061016195523.O64036@192.168.11.51>
	<p06240503c159c1d3b7b3@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <20061017092343.P23592@192.168.11.51>

Hello,

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006, Brad Knowles wrote:

> That's a wonderful idea.  However, since most of the people who contribute to 
> these efforts are people who've been around for a while and who understand 
> the importance of things like reading the FAQs, this is kind of a 
> self-selecting community.

English is not first language for me so I am not sure I should contribute 
but a couple of very simple things for starters.

1. Place all list templates (like a sign-up page, 
confirmation page, email text, etc.) in one place in admin. I may be wrong 
but at present not everything can be directly edited in admin. Even if it 
can, the information could be much better organized so that I knew what I 
am dealing with.

2. By default I would offer a very simply sign-up form with a clear, 
succint message. Something like:

If you would like to subscribe to NAME mailing list, please enter your 
email address in the field below and press Enter.

Below the email field I would put a link like "Advanced options". If 
someone clicks it, it would reveal more options like password, digest, 
etc. By default these options should not be dislayed. It would already 
make it a lot easier for people who now have a VERY long page full of 
information and not really sure what to do.

3. Absolutely and by all means hide the Subscribers part on the sign-up 
page.

4. Instead of a link to unsubscribe or edit options (these should NOT go 
together), just make a radio button under the email field (mentioned in 
point 2) where you simply choose Subscribe or Unsubscribe.

5. Information about archives should be somewhere below the form, not 
above. If I want to subscribe to the list, I do not need information about 
archives in the first place, though I can see some merit of it being 
there. But why as a first line of the sign-up page?

These changes would make it a lot easier for people to follow.

Hope all this makes sense.

P.S. English text is at least to some extent understandable but 
translations are much more difficult to follow. As much as I am thankful 
that there are wonderful people here who did the translation into Polish, 
I cannot speak favourably of its quality. It is not to criticize them. By 
no means. It is just that when I read it, I do not understand what the 
text means. Make the English templates simple and I am sure translations 
will also be better.

Thank you.

--
Zbigniew Szalbot


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Oct 17 10:26:28 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 03:26:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom Sign-Up Form
In-Reply-To: <20061017092343.P23592@192.168.11.51>
References: <PC1760200610161041380062e45f8144@Notebook>
	<20061016195523.O64036@192.168.11.51>
	<p06240503c159c1d3b7b3@[192.168.1.102]>
	<20061017092343.P23592@192.168.11.51>
Message-ID: <p06240500c15a40bb9907@[172.16.1.2]>

At 9:49 AM +0200 10/17/06, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:

>  English is not first language for me so I am not sure I should
>  contribute but a couple of very simple things for starters.

Actually, I find that people who are new to a subject like this are 
the ones that are in the best position to help us better understand 
how things look to a person who is new to the project, and therefore 
better able to help us understand where we are weak.  Some of the 
biggest contributors have been around long enough that it's hard to 
step out of our minds and set aside all of our knowledge and look at 
things from that perspective.

>  1. Place all list templates (like a sign-up page, confirmation
>  page, email text, etc.) in one place in admin. I may be wrong
>  but at present not everything can be directly edited in admin.
>  Even if it can, the information could be much better organized
>  so that I knew what I am dealing with.

Part of the problem is that there is a lot of stuff already in the 
admin pages.  It has to be organized somehow.  And sometimes it's a 
judgement call as to which things get organized where, because there 
may be several different ways that you could organize things.  One 
method may make more sense to me, while a different method may make 
more sense to you.

Better organization is clearly important, but just throwing 
everything on a single page is not the answer.  What we need help 
with is getting a better understanding of what things are truly 
important and deserve to be first, and what things may be less 
important and able be pushed further down.


This goes for the code itself, the actual admin web interface, the 
FAQ Wizard entries, the Wiki, and pretty much everything else.

If you can help us identify (with detailed specifics) what things 
about the current organization do not make sense, and how things 
could be better organized, that would be the first and biggest step 
towards actually making a sizable contribution.

>  These changes would make it a lot easier for people to follow.

And it took me to this point to figure out that you're just talking 
about the "list info" page, where potential new subscribers can sign 
up for the list.

You see, this stuff is complex.  You've got good points, but just 
editing a FAQ entry isn't going to help make these changes happen. 
These kinds of changes are going to require editing standard 
templates that are provided out-of-the-box, as well as the associated 
code.


To help us keep track of this sort of request, the best thing to do 
is to file an RFE via the page at 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103> and/or via 
the wiki at <http://wiki.list.org/>.  The problem here is that some 
of the affected programmers don't subscribe to this list, so in order 
for them to see your request it needs to be appropriately filed.

>  P.S. English text is at least to some extent understandable but
>  translations are much more difficult to follow. As much as I am
>  thankful that there are wonderful people here who did the
>  translation into Polish, I cannot speak favourably of its
>  quality.

This is something where you could help make an even greater 
contribution.  There is a whole separate Internationalization page at 
<http://www.list.org/i18n.html>, and they discuss translation issues 
on entirely separate mailing lists.  I suggest you hook up with the 
current Translation Champions for Polish (as listed on that page), 
and discuss the subject with them.

But you are correct that the simpler the source material they have to 
work with, the more likely that the translations will be correct, or 
at least easier to understand.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From pete at datasages.com  Tue Oct 17 16:33:38 2006
From: pete at datasages.com (Peter Kofod)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:33:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Serious Performance issue
Message-ID: <3CD2F82644A26B4CBDD478995E7FB129AA1D@exchange.datasages.com>

Hi Everyone:

I am new to this list having just implemented mailman for an
announce-list we host.  In short, the performance is horrible.  The list
has approx 40,000 subscribers and the avg message going out is about 40K
(some embedded imagery).  I know we can do better with lazy html etc.,
but the system has become unresponsive.

Here are the specifics:

Fedora Core 5
Mailman, Postfix (FC 5 releases), Apache, Sendmail

It has gotten to the point where we can't even manage the system via the
web interface (keep getting a 500 Internal Server error).  I am
obviously no mailman or postfix guru, so any pointers on where I should
look in the logs and make changes would be helpful.

Thanks,

Pete


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Oct 17 17:30:50 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:30:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Serious Performance issue
In-Reply-To: <3CD2F82644A26B4CBDD478995E7FB129AA1D@exchange.datasages.com>
References: <3CD2F82644A26B4CBDD478995E7FB129AA1D@exchange.datasages.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610170830v67d464a3wf166890326a68494@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/17/06, Peter Kofod <pete at datasages.com> wrote:
> It has gotten to the point where we can't even manage the system via the
> web interface (keep getting a 500 Internal Server error).  I am
> obviously no mailman or postfix guru, so any pointers on where I should
> look in the logs and make changes would be helpful.

See:
FAQ 4.11 <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.011.htp>
and
FAQ 6.3 <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.003.htp>

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Oct 17 17:34:57 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:34:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailman Upgrade
In-Reply-To: <6b16fb4c0610162306w42099e45vc4d21c44c2be701@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6b16fb4c0610162306w42099e45vc4d21c44c2be701@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610170834j28c767a9g240e678bd26916e3@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/17/06, Kaushal Shriyan <kaushalshriyan at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have GNU Mailman version is 2.1.8 running on my linux box, Just
> wanted to know "How do i upgrade it to "The current stable GNU Mailman
> version is 2.1.9, released on 12-Sep-2006"

Did you compile your Mailman from source, or are you using a package
distributed by your Linux distribution?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Tue Oct 17 17:35:05 2006
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:35:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Archives
In-Reply-To: <002c01c6f19a$cbe2bdd0$6703a8c0@kenxp>
References: <PC1760200610161913470703d907814e@Notebook>
	<002c01c6f19a$cbe2bdd0$6703a8c0@kenxp>
Message-ID: <20061017153505.GA5120@fmp.com>

Thus spake Ken Winter on Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 10:17:32PM CDT
> OK, I went to the host and deleted the files 2006-September (a folder),
> 2006-september.txt, and 2006-September.txt.gz.  Alas, the 9/06 archive is
> still listed on the web page.  I guess I have to edit index.html in that
> folder as well.  

This won't work.  You need to edit the mbox file, which is in 
~mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox - not the same as the per-month 
folders.  Deleting per-month folders and the monthly archives won't work.  
They're re-created from the the mbox file.  The mbox file is a single large 
file containing all the posts to the list.  It's a classic Unix format mail 
file in which each message is delimited with a "From address" line where From 
has no colon after it, as distinguished from the "From: address" body headers.  
You will need to delete messages starting with a From line and ending with the 
line just before the From line on any message not deleted.  Then run arch 
--wipe listname and you'll get what you expect.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Fighting against human |     PGP public key
FMP Computer Services |    creativity is like   |      available at
512-259-1190          |    trying to eradicate  | <http://pubkeys.fmp.com>
http://www.fmp.com    |        dandelions"      |
                      |      (Pamela Jones)     |


From ge at linuxbox.org  Tue Oct 17 17:38:48 2006
From: ge at linuxbox.org (Gadi Evron)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:38:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Serious Performance issue
In-Reply-To: <3CD2F82644A26B4CBDD478995E7FB129AA1D@exchange.datasages.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0610171036220.25033-100000@linuxbox.org>

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, Peter Kofod wrote:
> Hi Everyone:
> 
> I am new to this list having just implemented mailman for an
> announce-list we host.  In short, the performance is horrible.  The list
> has approx 40,000 subscribers and the avg message going out is about 40K
> (some embedded imagery).  I know we can do better with lazy html etc.,
> but the system has become unresponsive.

Generally, mailman does not really cope with *very* large lists too
well. It is still my system of choice.

> Here are the specifics:
> 
> Fedora Core 5
> Mailman, Postfix (FC 5 releases), Apache, Sendmail

Are you running spamassasin and similar? Looking at the header, do you see
a significant time lapse between certain hops?
 
> It has gotten to the point where we can't even manage the system via the
> web interface (keep getting a 500 Internal Server error).  I am
> obviously no mailman or postfix guru, so any pointers on where I should
> look in the logs and make changes would be helpful.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Pete
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ge%40linuxbox.org
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 



From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Tue Oct 17 17:53:26 2006
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:53:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom Sign-Up Form
In-Reply-To: <17716.30506.737526.714368@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC1760200610161041380062e45f8144@Notebook>
	<20061016195523.O64036@192.168.11.51>
	<p06240503c159c1d3b7b3@[192.168.1.102]>
	<20061017021210.GE30622@fmp.com>
	<17716.30506.737526.714368@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20061017155326.GB5120@fmp.com>

Thus spake stephen at xemacs.org on Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 01:24:42AM CDT
> Lindsay Haisley writes:
>  > For a project I'm working on I just de-geeked the Namazu search
>  > engine example page, which used Emacs, FreeBSD and other techie
>  > terms as search word examples.  I replaced all the geek words with
>  > fruits and vegetables.  Everyone understands fruits and vegetables
>  > ;-)
> 
> This is a *great* example of what to do.
> 
> I'm afraid that de-tech'ing the Mailman FAQ, however, is an example of
> what *not* to do.  I think it should by and large *stay* techie.  If
> you get referred to the Mailman FAQ, you are probably a list admin
> with a problem.  In my experience, Mailman does very well at getting
> the straightforword stuff right.  So if you do have a problem, it's
> probably not straightforward.

I quite agree.  I came in on this thread late in the game, so I'm not aware of 
exactly what it is that the original post talked about de-tech'ing.  
Well-written technical documentation, however, is also somewhat rarer than one 
might hope.  Anyone with a technical background, which I have, who's tried to 
set up the Common Unix Printing System (CUPS) from the ESP documentation has 
experienced the bleeding edge of bad documentation.  It's written in 
hyper-geek, which might as well be Latin when it comes to finding out the 
specific meaning of a particular error or the exact steps needed to do a 
particular job.

It's almost axiomatic that people with good technical skills are often verbally 
challenged when it comes to writing good documentation, whether it's for the 
general public or for other technical people.  This goes all the way back to 
the 80s and beyond, I'm sure.  The user's manual on my first desktop computer, 
a Kaypro-10, was a disaster area.  They'd copied engineering notes and marked 
them up by hand with a pen, and called it a manual.

> Furthermore, email is a large complex system that is *fundamentally*
> dependent on standards, which are inherently techie territory.

Yep, and RFCs are generally clearly written and logically organized.  Any 
documentation which is based on RFCs, and uses their organization as an example 
will probably be OK.

> Sure, the FAQ could be improved.  But it seems to me that there's no
> shortage of help available for admins on the list, if you look at the
> FAQ but don't understand it.

In my experience, list admins are generally not as tech literate as system 
admins, but for the lists I host they're well above average in their 
understanding of email protocols and problems.

--
Lindsay Haisley       | "Fighting against human |     PGP public key
FMP Computer Services |    creativity is like   |      available at
512-259-1190          |    trying to eradicate  | <http://pubkeys.fmp.com>
http://www.fmp.com    |        dandelions"      |
                      |      (Pamela Jones)     |


From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Tue Oct 17 18:11:25 2006
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:11:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Serious Performance issue
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0610171036220.25033-100000@linuxbox.org>
References: <3CD2F82644A26B4CBDD478995E7FB129AA1D@exchange.datasages.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.21.0610171036220.25033-100000@linuxbox.org>
Message-ID: <20061017161125.GC5120@fmp.com>

Thus spake Gadi Evron on Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 10:38:48AM CDT
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, Peter Kofod wrote:
> > Hi Everyone:
> > 
> > I am new to this list having just implemented mailman for an
> > announce-list we host.  In short, the performance is horrible.  The list
> > has approx 40,000 subscribers and the avg message going out is about 40K
> > (some embedded imagery).  I know we can do better with lazy html etc.,
> > but the system has become unresponsive.
> 
> Generally, mailman does not really cope with *very* large lists too
> well. It is still my system of choice.

I would try to profile the problem, chunk it down into components and see where 
it's taking the most time.  My guess is that it's not a Mailman problem, but an 
MTA problem.  "Unresponsive" generally means that your load average has gone 
way up, which is easy to check using top, and you can also see which processes 
are eating CPU cycles.  The FAQs which Patrick cited look quite helpful, but 
even so, IMHO, 40K subscribers is a *very* large list.  A single 40K message to 
the list ends up pushing better than a gigabyte of data through your mail 
server.  Load balancing the job across several servers might be appropriate.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Fighting against human |     PGP public key
FMP Computer Services |    creativity is like   |      available at
512-259-1190          |    trying to eradicate  | <http://pubkeys.fmp.com>
http://www.fmp.com    |        dandelions"      |
                      |      (Pamela Jones)     |


From thomas at ifi.uio.no  Tue Oct 17 18:00:31 2006
From: thomas at ifi.uio.no (Thomas Gramstad)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 18:00:31 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-deleting mail from outside .no?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0610171751180.27382@honbori.ifi.uio.no>

I have many small lists in Norwegian and they're all being
hit by a lot of spam. Yes, the spam filter holds them back --
but then I get a /lot/ of mail about new messages waiting,
and it's a big job moderating them.

What I really want is the option to set that anything mailed from
an address that does not end with .no is automatically deleted and
I never see it. Is that possible, per list or even per domain/for
all lists?

Thomas Gramstad


From kaushalshriyan at gmail.com  Tue Oct 17 18:14:54 2006
From: kaushalshriyan at gmail.com (Kaushal Shriyan)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:44:54 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailman Upgrade
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00610170834j28c767a9g240e678bd26916e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6b16fb4c0610162306w42099e45vc4d21c44c2be701@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00610170834j28c767a9g240e678bd26916e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6b16fb4c0610170914m6df54bf9x622d73700e61f48d@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/17/06, Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/17/06, Kaushal Shriyan <kaushalshriyan at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have GNU Mailman version is 2.1.8 running on my linux box, Just
> > wanted to know "How do i upgrade it to "The current stable GNU Mailman
> > version is 2.1.9, released on 12-Sep-2006"
>
> Did you compile your Mailman from source, or are you using a package
> distributed by your Linux distribution?
>
> --
> - Patrick Bogen
>
Hi Patrick

I have compiled GNU Mailman version 2.1.8 from source from
http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/

Thanks and Regards

Kaushal


From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Tue Oct 17 18:39:34 2006
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:39:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-deleting mail from outside .no?
Message-ID: <20061017163934.GB31625@fmp.com>

Privacy Options | Sender Filters | reject_these_nonmembers will accept a 
regular expression.  See the help for it.  It's a per-list setting.

Thus spake Thomas Gramstad on Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 11:00:31AM CDT
> I have many small lists in Norwegian and they're all being
> hit by a lot of spam. Yes, the spam filter holds them back --
> but then I get a /lot/ of mail about new messages waiting,
> and it's a big job moderating them.
> 
> What I really want is the option to set that anything mailed from
> an address that does not end with .no is automatically deleted and
> I never see it. Is that possible, per list or even per domain/for
> all lists?
> 
> Thomas Gramstad
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/fmouse-mailman%40fmp.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Fighting against human |     PGP public key
FMP Computer Services |    creativity is like   |      available at
512-259-1190          |    trying to eradicate  | <http://pubkeys.fmp.com>
http://www.fmp.com    |        dandelions"      |
                      |      (Pamela Jones)     |



From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Tue Oct 17 18:50:01 2006
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:50:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-deleting mail from outside .no?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0610171751180.27382@honbori.ifi.uio.no>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0610171751180.27382@honbori.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <20061017165001.GC31625@fmp.com>

Actually, discard_these_nonmembers on the same admin page I cited is a better 
option if most of it is spam.

Thus spake Thomas Gramstad on Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 11:00:31AM CDT
> What I really want is the option to set that anything mailed from
> an address that does not end with .no is automatically deleted and
> I never see it. Is that possible, per list or even per domain/for
> all lists?

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Fighting against human |     PGP public key
FMP Computer Services |    creativity is like   |      available at
512-259-1190          |    trying to eradicate  | <http://pubkeys.fmp.com>
http://www.fmp.com    |        dandelions"      |
                      |      (Pamela Jones)     |


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Oct 17 19:45:26 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:45:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-deleting mail from outside .no?
In-Reply-To: <20061017165001.GC31625@fmp.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0610171751180.27382@honbori.ifi.uio.no>
	<20061017165001.GC31625@fmp.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610171045y358645dbv9495b3388ecb353a@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/17/06, Lindsay Haisley <fmouse-mailman at fmp.com> wrote:
> Actually, discard_these_nonmembers on the same admin page I cited is a better
> option if most of it is spam.

Just to expand on what Lindsay is saying:

Rejecting 'spam' mails means that mailman will send a message back
saying the message was rejected. This is bad netcitizenry, because
most likely, the return address on the spam is a fake, so by sending
the spam bounce, you're actually spamming someone wlse (at worst), or,
at best, sending the mail into a blackhole. Which is to say: best
case, the reject is worthless. Worst case, you're adding to the
problem.

Which is why Lindsay recommended that you use
discard_these_nonmembers, which silently drops the messages, instead
of sending an email back.

Of course, the other side of this is that if there are legitimate
messages that get discarded, you won't know they were ever there, and
the person won't know they didn't get to you.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Tue Oct 17 19:48:10 2006
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:48:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Serious Performance issue
In-Reply-To: <20061017161125.GC5120@fmp.com>
References: <3CD2F82644A26B4CBDD478995E7FB129AA1D@exchange.datasages.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.21.0610171036220.25033-100000@linuxbox.org>
	<20061017161125.GC5120@fmp.com>
Message-ID: <20061017174810.GA22652@charite.de>

* Lindsay Haisley <fmouse-mailman at fmp.com>:


> I would try to profile the problem, chunk it down into components and see where 
> it's taking the most time.  My guess is that it's not a Mailman problem, but an 
> MTA problem.  "Unresponsive" generally means that your load average has gone 
> way up, which is easy to check using top, and you can also see which processes 
> are eating CPU cycles.  The FAQs which Patrick cited look quite helpful, but 
> even so, IMHO, 40K subscribers is a *very* large list.  A single 40K message to 
> the list ends up pushing better than a gigabyte of data through your mail 
> server.  Load balancing the job across several servers might be appropriate.

I'd need to know some details:

a) Are mailman and postfix on the same box? If yes: That sucks :)
b) Where does the load come from? If you send out an assload of mail,
   then Postfix will saturate your disk I/O and pump out the mail
   Nothing else will be moving during that time.
c) Is the mail coming mfrom mailman scanned for viruses? If yes: That
   sucks. After all it's sufficient to scan the mail going INTO mailman
   (usually that amount is <<< amount of outgoing mail)

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                 send no mail to spamtrap at charite.de


From gilmore.126 at osu.edu  Tue Oct 17 19:38:40 2006
From: gilmore.126 at osu.edu (Melinda)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 13:38:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password management
Message-ID: <009701c6f213$15881ca0$4af39280@oitlan.oit.ohiostate.edu>

Has anyone come up with a good management for passwords.  We are about to
introduce Mailman to the university and many are concerned about password
management and generating a lot of helpdesk calls.  We currently are running
Listproc on a Solaris.   We want to move to Mailman on a RedHat Linux box.
Any pointers would be much appreciated.   I am also new to this world.  

 

Mindy

 



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Oct 17 19:51:08 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:51:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailman Upgrade
In-Reply-To: <6b16fb4c0610170914m6df54bf9x622d73700e61f48d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6b16fb4c0610162306w42099e45vc4d21c44c2be701@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00610170834j28c767a9g240e678bd26916e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<6b16fb4c0610170914m6df54bf9x622d73700e61f48d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610171051v374fc0c4pe784de4488365475@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/17/06, Kaushal Shriyan <kaushalshriyan at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have compiled GNU Mailman version 2.1.8 from source from
> http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/

All you need to do, then, is run 'configure' with the same options you
gave it the first time, then compile and install normally. The new
sources files will overwrite the old files; then, just issue a
mailmanctl restart.

That said, if your lists are anything but low volume, you need to take
some extra care to properly handle messages that come in while you're
overwriting bits of mailman. Stop mailman ('mailmanctl stop'); then,
ideally, modify your MTA to issue a 400-series error for messages
destined for mailman (or all messages, maybe), so that they are
temporarily rejected (with an error code that says 'please try
again'). Then, you should be fine to run the install.

(Sorry, I don't know how to do this for any MTA, and I don't know what
MTA you're using.)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Oct 17 19:55:52 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:55:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password management
In-Reply-To: <009701c6f213$15881ca0$4af39280@oitlan.oit.ohiostate.edu>
References: <009701c6f213$15881ca0$4af39280@oitlan.oit.ohiostate.edu>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610171055w9e706b9s6566be8553286061@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/17/06, Melinda <gilmore.126 at osu.edu> wrote:
> Has anyone come up with a good management for passwords.  We are about to
> introduce Mailman to the university and many are concerned about password
> management and generating a lot of helpdesk calls.  We currently are running
> Listproc on a Solaris.   We want to move to Mailman on a RedHat Linux box.
> Any pointers would be much appreciated.   I am also new to this world.

Are you concerned about the mailman passwords?

These passwords are generally understood to be low-security; they are,
in fact, re-emailed periodically (if enabled), in plaintext; and since
email is largely unencrypted during transport, this makes such emails
vulnerable to sniffing attacks.

With all that in mind, mailman passwords shouldn't be used for
anything other than mailman. Even in mailman, they're largely
'unimportant,' and provide only an additional layer of security where
most MLMs have no security (e.g., with mailman, you give an email AND
its password to unsubscribe. Most other MLMs give only the email.)

Unfortunately, if your policies (irrationally) require all passwords
to be changed periodically, then I believe you're SOL in this regard.
I haven't seen anything with regards to enforcing password policy
within mailman, which means there's no expiration (and, thus, no 'your
password has expired, please change it now' support), and no strength
checking (although this would probably be fairly issue to implement
using cracklib, if there are python bindings).


If you're talking about password management in general, and not
specific to mailman, this is the wrong place to ask this. Mailman does
not handle user passwords for anything except mailman. Authenticating
real services against mailman would be a Bad Idea, and quite difficult
to implement.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From biggleszx at gmail.com  Tue Oct 17 20:23:01 2006
From: biggleszx at gmail.com (BigglesZX)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:23:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using a remote email account as a message source
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610151101160637abdb6b0d@Notebook>
References: <ea1854820610141135n485e8b70ic92dbba9f45b34f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200610151101160637abdb6b0d@Notebook>
Message-ID: <ea1854820610171123k37a4e178mc290c430009ba4d1@mail.gmail.com>

Ye gods, it was require_explicit_destination that sorted it. If only
I'd not glossed over that part in the original reply/looked more
thoroughly for that configuration directive :(.

Very many thanks to yourself and Patrick for sticking with me during
this! I suspect less patient guys would have ignored me long ago :).

Best regards and thanks once again,

   Biggs

On 15/10/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> BigglesZX  wrote:
> >
> >If I use a local mail account (using mutt) to send a message to
> >listname at localhost, the message is passed through fine - goes out on
> >to the list.
> >
> >If, however, I send the message to the remote account checked by
> >fetchmail, then run fetchmail to retrieve the message, it does not
> >make it to the list. Fetchmail is set up to pass on to
> >listname at localhost just as above, and a reading of the exim log gives
> >the impression that it has passed through okay, but then once the
> >administrative approval request mail is generated to the list admin,
> >that message gets frozen with the following error:
> >
> >2006-10-14 19:26:57 1GYoDp-00066c-Ec ** listname-bounces at my.FQDN.com:
> >Unrouteable address
> >
> >I thought I had configured exim to accept mail to this domain
> >correctly, but perhaps not - my question is why mailman won't deliver
> >the post to the list when it is sent in this manner.
>
>
> I'm not really clear on what you are seeing here, but it seems that the
> post via fetchmail is being held for moderator approval and the notice
> to the moderator is not making it from Mailman to the moderator. Is
> this correct so far?
>
> If so, there are two issues. Why is the post held, and what happens to
> the moderator notice?
>
> If you go to the admindb web interface, do you see the post? If so,
> what is the reason it is held? This info is also in the 'vette' log. I
> suspect it is "implicit destination". As Patrick said very early in
> this thread, you have to look at Privacy options...->Recipient filters
> and either set require_explicit_destination to No or add
> listname at the_remote_server.example.com to acceptable_aliases.
>
>
> >The only difference between the two sendings is the sender's address -
> >the post goes through when the sender is @localhost or my FQDN - or to
> >put it another way, no admin message is generated when the mail
> >originates from the local machine. Have I missed a configuration
> >option relating to mail originating from the local machine?
>
>
> How about the To: address? Is it the same in both cases, or is it
> listname at local.example.com in one case and listname at remote.example.com
> in the other. If the latter, see above.
>
> As far as the notice to the admin getting stuck, I'm not sure. The
> message
>
> >2006-10-14 19:26:57 1GYoDp-00066c-Ec ** listname-bounces at my.FQDN.com:
> >Unrouteable address
>
> seems to be saying that something was sent and bounced to
> listname-bounces and that address is unroutable. What does your Exim
> config have for the mailman router?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
biggleszx at gmail.com
http://www.biggleszx.com/
ICQ 104870111

[ Because I used to be...

T H E B A S T A R D O P E R A T O R F R O M H E L L ! ! !

...and sometimes, late at night I get these twitches. Like dead people
get. (Or, as I prefer to call them, perfect computer users)

In the mornings I get them too. Like when the phone rings. And when I
get email. And when people talk to me. AND when people are hogging the
expresso machine to make fluffy milk. But apart from that I'm cured. A
new man. ]


From carbonnb at gmail.com  Tue Oct 17 20:58:40 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 14:58:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailman Upgrade
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00610171051v374fc0c4pe784de4488365475@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6b16fb4c0610162306w42099e45vc4d21c44c2be701@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00610170834j28c767a9g240e678bd26916e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<6b16fb4c0610170914m6df54bf9x622d73700e61f48d@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00610171051v374fc0c4pe784de4488365475@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920610171158n43dc84fcnccbd61ce4bde6089@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/17/06, Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/17/06, Kaushal Shriyan <kaushalshriyan at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have compiled GNU Mailman version 2.1.8 from source from
> > http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/
>
> All you need to do, then, is run 'configure' with the same options you
> gave it the first time, then compile and install normally. The new
> sources files will overwrite the old files; then, just issue a
> mailmanctl restart.

Before you run the make install I'd recommend stopping mailman

mailmanctl stop
make install
mailmanctl start

-- 
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Oct 17 21:11:38 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 14:11:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-deleting mail from outside .no?
In-Reply-To: <20061017165001.GC31625@fmp.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0610171751180.27382@honbori.ifi.uio.no>
	<20061017165001.GC31625@fmp.com>
Message-ID: <p06240504c15ad3e5ba62@[172.16.1.2]>

At 11:50 AM -0500 10/17/06, Lindsay Haisley wrote:

>  Actually, discard_these_nonmembers on the same admin page I cited is a better
>  option if most of it is spam.

Actually, this kind of rejection should be done within the MTA, 
before the message ever gets to Mailman.  If the message you want to 
reject has already hit Mailman, then you've already lost the battle.

Which makes this question more appropriate for a different mailing list.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Oct 17 20:38:08 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 13:38:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Serious Performance issue
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0610171036220.25033-100000@linuxbox.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0610171036220.25033-100000@linuxbox.org>
Message-ID: <p06240501c15ad2fa8354@[172.16.1.2]>

At 10:38 AM -0500 10/17/06, Gadi Evron wrote:

>>  I am new to this list having just implemented mailman for an
>>  announce-list we host.  In short, the performance is horrible.  The list
>>  has approx 40,000 subscribers and the avg message going out is about 40K
>>  (some embedded imagery).  I know we can do better with lazy html etc.,
>>  but the system has become unresponsive.
>
>  Generally, mailman does not really cope with *very* large lists too
>  well.

Yeah, but if you've done the performance-tuning stuff correctly (see 
the FAQ), then you should be able to handle a 40K list.  Mailman 
typically starts to see issues when you get into lists considerably 
larger than that.

And the performance enhancements that they're working on for 2.2 
should help things tremendously.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Oct 17 21:15:15 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 14:15:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-deleting mail from outside .no?
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00610171045y358645dbv9495b3388ecb353a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0610171751180.27382@honbori.ifi.uio.no>
	<20061017165001.GC31625@fmp.com>
	<6fbe3da00610171045y358645dbv9495b3388ecb353a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240505c15adb8182cf@[172.16.1.2]>

At 12:45 PM -0500 10/17/06, Patrick Bogen wrote:

>  Of course, the other side of this is that if there are legitimate
>  messages that get discarded, you won't know they were ever there, and
>  the person won't know they didn't get to you.

These are thorny issues, which is why this process should be done 
within the MTA and not within Mailman.  If you reject the message 
within the MTA, then the sending machine is responsible for properly 
handling the bounces.  Conveniently for us, sending machines of 
spammers don't do bounces at all, while proper MTAs should.

This means that rejecting a spam message within the MTA does not 
generate "blowback" (a.k.a., "backscatter") for spam, while rejecting 
a message within the MTA should result in a proper Non-Delivery 
Notice (NDN, or "bounce") for legitimate messages.


Do this within the MTA.  Once the message gets past the MTA, you have 
accepted it and are responsible for ensuring that it gets delivered, 
and then you get into the thorny thicket of making sure that the 
message is real or spam, and that you always take the appropriate 
action.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From addw at phcomp.co.uk  Tue Oct 17 21:21:12 2006
From: addw at phcomp.co.uk (Alain Williams)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:21:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password management
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00610171055w9e706b9s6566be8553286061@mail.gmail.com>
References: <009701c6f213$15881ca0$4af39280@oitlan.oit.ohiostate.edu>
	<6fbe3da00610171055w9e706b9s6566be8553286061@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20061017192112.GO31955@mint.phcomp.co.uk>

On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 12:55:52PM -0500, Patrick Bogen wrote:
> On 10/17/06, Melinda <gilmore.126 at osu.edu> wrote:
> > Has anyone come up with a good management for passwords.  We are about to
> > introduce Mailman to the university and many are concerned about password
> > management and generating a lot of helpdesk calls.  We currently are running
> > Listproc on a Solaris.   We want to move to Mailman on a RedHat Linux box.
> > Any pointers would be much appreciated.   I am also new to this world.
> 
> Are you concerned about the mailman passwords?
> 
> These passwords are generally understood to be low-security; they are,
> in fact, re-emailed periodically (if enabled), in plaintext; and since
> email is largely unencrypted during transport, this makes such emails
> vulnerable to sniffing attacks.

That is not the point. The problems are:

* that mailman passwords are locked away in python pickles .. this makes them difficult to
  access/maintain through scripts written in other languages.
* if you are subscribed to several lists, then you have a different password
  for each list, or you need to change each of them every time that
  you change.

> With all that in mind, mailman passwords shouldn't be used for
> anything other than mailman. Even in mailman, they're largely
> 'unimportant,' and provide only an additional layer of security where
> most MLMs have no security (e.g., with mailman, you give an email AND
> its password to unsubscribe. Most other MLMs give only the email.)

No: they are not meant to he high security, but it would be nice to
use the same one as with various other services on the same box.

[23~-- 
Alain Williams
Parliament Hill Computers Ltd.
Linux Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT Lecturer.
+44 (0) 787 668 0256  http://www.phcomp.co.uk/

#include <std_disclaimer.h>


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Oct 17 23:50:20 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:50:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password management
In-Reply-To: <20061017192112.GO31955@mint.phcomp.co.uk>
References: <009701c6f213$15881ca0$4af39280@oitlan.oit.ohiostate.edu>
	<6fbe3da00610171055w9e706b9s6566be8553286061@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061017192112.GO31955@mint.phcomp.co.uk>
Message-ID: <p06240500c15afe96bbc6@[172.16.1.2]>

At 8:21 PM +0100 10/17/06, Alain Williams wrote:

>  * that mailman passwords are locked away in python pickles .. this
>  makes them difficult to access/maintain through scripts written in
>  other languages.

There's a variety of reasons why passwords are being eliminated from 
future versions of Mailman.  This is another good one.

However, you shouldn't need to access the passwords from other 
languages -- if the users have forgotten their password, they can 
always have a new one generated and then sent out to them by e-mail.

>  * if you are subscribed to several lists, then you have a different password
>   for each list, or you need to change each of them every time that
>   you change.

Not necessarily.  If they use the same e-mail address, they can log 
into their user page with the address and password for one list, then 
globally change their password for all lists.  It's a more complex 
process, but it does work.

Of course, we recognize that it's a more complex process and probably 
too much to expect for most users, which is part of why passwords are 
being eliminated.

>  No: they are not meant to he high security, but it would be nice to
>  use the same one as with various other services on the same box.

Mailman was not designed to integrate with other services on the same 
box.  However, if you program in Python, it's not hard to access the 
same pickles in other packages.  But that's more of a Python 
programming thing, not a Mailman thing.


If you'd like to have better integration between Mailman and other 
services on the same box, we would welcome your patches.  Please feel 
free to upload those via the SourceForge patch tracker for Mailman at 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103>.

Otherwise, please feel free to file your Request for Enhancement on 
the SourceForge RFE tracker for Mailman at 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103>, or via 
the Mailman wiki at <http://wiki.list.org/>.


We are working on this issue, but it's a slow process.  Among other 
things, there are a virtually infinite variety of other potential 
services you might want to integrate with.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From forrest at ce.berkeley.edu  Wed Oct 18 01:00:41 2006
From: forrest at ce.berkeley.edu (Jon Forrest)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:00:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Yet Another List Cloning Question
Message-ID: <45356099.6060902@ce.berkeley.edu>

(I've read the archives about list cloning. I hope
the question below isn't the same as the rest. This question
is for Mailman 2.1.9).

I need to create a bunch of email lists, more
than are feasible to create using the web interface.
I have, however, used the web interface to create
one list that I've successfully configured in the
way I want all the other lists to be.

 From reading the archives I know that one way to create the
other lists is something like this (oldlistname is
the correctly configured list):

	bin/config_list -o oldlistname.cfg oldlistname
	# separate list-specific stuff from generic and put in std.cfg
	bin/newlist newlistname
	bin/config_list -i std.cfg newlistname

Here's what isn't clear to me. In looking at the contents
of oldlistname.cfg I see lots of good stuff. Some of it is obviously
specific to oldlistname, and some of it is generic list
configuration info. Is there any way I, as a new Mailman,
can tell which is which? For example, it looks like everything after
'subject_prefix' can be generic but I'm not sure.

Also, am I right in thinking that a better way of doing this,
once I've created a correct std.cfg, would be to put the stuff
from std.cfg into mm_cfg.py?

Cordially,

-- 
Jon Forrest
forrest at ce.berkeley.edu
Computer Resources Manager
Civil and Environmental Engineering Dept.
305 Davis Hall
Univ. of Calif., Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720-1710
510-642-0904



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 18 02:23:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:23:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Yet Another List Cloning Question
In-Reply-To: <45356099.6060902@ce.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610171723580140e23daf26@Notebook>

Jon Forrest wrote:
>
>Here's what isn't clear to me. In looking at the contents
>of oldlistname.cfg I see lots of good stuff. Some of it is obviously
>specific to oldlistname, and some of it is generic list
>configuration info. Is there any way I, as a new Mailman,
>can tell which is which? For example, it looks like everything after
>'subject_prefix' can be generic but I'm not sure.


It depends :-)

For example, things like welcome_message and goodbye_msg may or may not
be list specific, but if they are empty in your standard config, then
they could be left in or omitted with the same effect for a new list.

Likewise, things from Privacy options are probably list specific, but
are likely empty.

Note that the things in your config_list -o output are just the
settings from the web admin pages together with their 'help text'
except for Passwords and Membership Management...



>Also, am I right in thinking that a better way of doing this,
>once I've created a correct std.cfg, would be to put the stuff
>from std.cfg into mm_cfg.py?


Yes, but you can't do this directly. You may already understand this,
but in case you don't, if you put

anonymous_list = True

in mm_cfg.py, it wouldn't result in an error, but it effectivly
wouldn't do anything. However, if you look in Defaults.py, you will see

DEFAULT_ANONYMOUS_LIST = No

which defines the default setting for the anonymous_list attribute for
new lists.  So, yes it is appropriate to look through Defaults.py for
all the defaults for new lists and override in mm_cfg.py those that
you want to be different.

Note however, that you can't make up settings for mm_cfg.py. For
example if you wanted all new lists to have a non-empty ban_list, you
can't do this by setting DEFAULT_BAN_LIST in mm_cfg.py because there
is no such setting and even if you set it, Mailman won't look at it.
You can only override Defaults.py settings in mm_cfg.py; you can't
create new ones.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Oct 18 07:28:56 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:28:56 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom Sign-Up Form
In-Reply-To: <20061017155326.GB5120@fmp.com>
References: <PC1760200610161041380062e45f8144@Notebook>
	<20061016195523.O64036@192.168.11.51>
	<p06240503c159c1d3b7b3@[192.168.1.102]>
	<20061017021210.GE30622@fmp.com>
	<17716.30506.737526.714368@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20061017155326.GB5120@fmp.com>
Message-ID: <17717.48024.761771.464458@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Lindsay Haisley writes:

 > Well-written technical documentation, however, is also somewhat
 > rarer than one might hope.

True.  But Mailman's is well better than average in my experience
because about half of it is in the FAQ, based on the Internet
tradition of codifying best current practices (ie, summarizing
Mailman-Users threads).  The basic install and configuration documents
are by now third generation (at least; I'm thinking of UCSD listserv
and Majordomo).  And many of the people involved place high priority
on user service, including documentation.

 > It's almost axiomatic that people with good technical skills are
 > often verbally challenged when it comes to writing good
 > documentation, whether it's for the general public or for other
 > technical people.

This has not been my experience.  When challenged to write good
documentation[1], most can do it, although there are glaring
exceptions.  The problem is "I'd rather be coding".  It's expensive to
enforce good documentation practices; you basically have to pay real
money for it (or have a charismatic boss like rms or GvR, and even
then it only applies to the projects s/he's directly involved in).

It's much easier to get "professional users" to contribute this way,
and I believe that Mailman (like Apache, for similar reasons) has been
rather successful.

 > In my experience, list admins are generally not as tech literate as
 > system admins, but for the lists I host they're well above average
 > in their understanding of email protocols and problems.

Sure.  My point is simply that, especially if they're not as good as
the list admins you associate with, people who don't understand what
the FAQ says probably also don't have sufficient grip on the basic
ideas of the email system to solve their own problems no matter how
good the documentation is.  Since they're going to come back to the
list anyway, the question is "would time be saved for advisors and
advisees alike if the docs were better?"

IMHO, having followed this ML for about 5 years now, the answer is
"not enough to make a thorough rewrite of the docs worthwhile."[2]
Most threads are clearly well-informed by the docs and the FAQ; the
people having problems generally just aren't looking at the issue
correctly, and once that's explained, a large fraction of threads are
wound up in a post or two (including the thank-you note, which is
pleasantly more common in this kind of relatively non-technical
audience!)


Footnotes: 
[1]  Not "excellent", merely "good".

[2]  It probably will be useful to review them for style and clarity
when 2.2 comes out though.





From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Oct 18 07:42:17 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:42:17 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password management
In-Reply-To: <20061017192112.GO31955@mint.phcomp.co.uk>
References: <009701c6f213$15881ca0$4af39280@oitlan.oit.ohiostate.edu>
	<6fbe3da00610171055w9e706b9s6566be8553286061@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061017192112.GO31955@mint.phcomp.co.uk>
Message-ID: <17717.48825.404283.351580@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Alain Williams writes:

 > * that mailman passwords are locked away in python pickles .. this
 > makes them difficult to access/maintain through scripts written in
 > other languages.

Not at all.  Just write a python script to get the passwords out, then
call that script.  Inefficient?  Of course---but if this facility is
being used more than once or twice a day for the whole box, you're
probably a customer for MemberAdapter or something like that.
(MemberAdapter is a technology to interface Mailman to mailing lists
kept in LDAP or SQL databases.  I don't know any more than the name
and that it requires substantial set up effort by the site admin, but
you can find it in the FAQ I believe.)

 > * if you are subscribed to several lists, then you have a different
 > password for each list, or you need to change each of them every
 > time that you change.

I think you're a candidate for MemberAdapter, although dealing with
helpdesk calls for the "more complex procedure" Brad describes might
be cheaper.

Specifically, IIRC MemberAdapter is cantankerous and being deprecated;
"something better" will be in later versions of Mailman.  OTOH, since
it's "something better" and you'll have the basic database side
already set up, you can hope it will be easy to migrate to the new
technology.  YMMV, of course.



From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Wed Oct 18 08:19:13 2006
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 01:19:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom Sign-Up Form
In-Reply-To: <17717.48024.761771.464458@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC1760200610161041380062e45f8144@Notebook>
	<20061016195523.O64036@192.168.11.51>
	<p06240503c159c1d3b7b3@[192.168.1.102]>
	<20061017021210.GE30622@fmp.com>
	<17716.30506.737526.714368@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20061017155326.GB5120@fmp.com>
	<17717.48024.761771.464458@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20061018061913.GB11152@fmp.com>

Thus spake stephen at xemacs.org on Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 12:28:56AM CDT
> Lindsay Haisley writes:
> 
>  > Well-written technical documentation, however, is also somewhat
>  > rarer than one might hope.
> 
> True.  But Mailman's is well better than average in my experience
> because about half of it is in the FAQ, based on the Internet
> tradition of codifying best current practices (ie, summarizing
> Mailman-Users threads).

I've actually been pretty well impressed with the clarity and organization of 
Mailman documentation.  I really like the help pages for the administration UI 
("Details for ....") to which I frequently refer people for whom I set up 
lists.  These pages usually achieve the goal of being technically straight 
forward enough to be both helpful to experienced admins and still clear to 
relative newcomers.  This isn't often an easy balance.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Fighting against human |     PGP public key
FMP Computer Services |    creativity is like   |      available at
512-259-1190          |    trying to eradicate  | <http://pubkeys.fmp.com>
http://www.fmp.com    |        dandelions"      |
                      |      (Pamela Jones)     |


From Francois.Braval at dr8.cnrs.fr  Wed Oct 18 14:44:19 2006
From: Francois.Braval at dr8.cnrs.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?BRAVAL_Fran=E7ois?=)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:44:19 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] external web interface
Message-ID: <4192A4A6366BAD44820A9DE6B71A1AD4015B5738@cesar.dcal.cnrs.fr>

hi
 
first, excuse for my poor english
 
i have set up a full mailman config on a server machine1 (postfix+apache+mailman) and all is working well
 
i want now to use the web interface on another server (machine2) and can't set up the things right
 
what i have done:
 
-create an nfs share from machine1:/usr/local/mailman to machine2:/usr/local/domain
-create mailman user and group on machine2 with same uid and sid as machine1
-mount nfs share on machine2
-dns entries for machine1 and machine2 are ok
-add to mm_cfg.py : 
  DEFAULT_URL_HOST ='machine2.mydomain.com'
  add_virtualhost('machine2.mydomain.com','machine1.mydomain.com')
 
when launching web interface on machine1, everything seems to work ok
 
when launching on machine2, i got the wen interface but saying no list present,
when trying to create one, got a 'sorry we hit a bug' screen, list seems to be created but no mail is sent to adminlist
 
 
what i've done wrong or incomplete ?
 
 
 
fran?ois
 
====================================== 
Fran?ois BRAVAL 
Service Informatique 
CNRS-DR08- Centre-Poitou-Charentes 
3E Avenue de la Recherche Scientifique 
45071 ORLEANS Cedex 2 
Tel 02 38 25 79 89
Fax 02 38 69 70 31 
www http://www.dr8.cnrs.fr <http://www.dr8.cnrs.fr/>  
====================================== 
 


From roman.hultay at infostore.ca  Wed Oct 18 17:48:14 2006
From: roman.hultay at infostore.ca (Roman Hultay)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 11:48:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.9_rc1
Message-ID: <1161186494.5013.5.camel@localhost>

I have just successfully installed mailman on a production box, and it
works great.

I have several questions which may or may not be newbie-like:

1. I would like to disable the ability for the public to see
http://mydomain.tld/mailman/lists

2. I would like to allow a specific user to be capable of adding mailing
lists via the web interface

3. I would like to change the From: field on all messages to a
definitive e-mail address on each list

4. I would like to remove the attachment / footer containing list
information

Any and all help will be appreciated.



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 18 18:08:02 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 09:08:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] external web interface
In-Reply-To: <4192A4A6366BAD44820A9DE6B71A1AD4015B5738@cesar.dcal.cnrs.fr>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610180908020671a1b0b101@Notebook>

BRAVAL Fran?ois wrote:
> 
>first, excuse for my poor english


Your English is clear enough I think. Much better than ma Fran?ais.

 
>what i have done:
> 
>-create an nfs share from machine1:/usr/local/mailman to machine2:/usr/local/domain
>-create mailman user and group on machine2 with same uid and sid as machine1
>-mount nfs share on machine2
>-dns entries for machine1 and machine2 are ok
>-add to mm_cfg.py : 
>  DEFAULT_URL_HOST ='machine2.mydomain.com'
>  add_virtualhost('machine2.mydomain.com','machine1.mydomain.com')


This has to do with the problem - see below.

 
>when launching web interface on machine1, everything seems to work ok
> 
>when launching on machine2, i got the wen interface but saying no list present,


When you go the the listinfo or admin overview pages from machine2, you
will see no lists because all the lists are in the machine1 domain.
This is based on the web_page_url attribute of the list. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>.

Setting DEFAULT_URL_HOST and add_virtual_host in mm_cfg.py won't affect
this. What you need in mm_cfg.py is

VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off

so all lists will appear on all domain's overview pages.

You should be able to go to the admin/listname or listinfo/listname
page on machine2 even if listname is not shown on the overview.


>when trying to create one, got a 'sorry we hit a bug' screen, list seems to be created but no mail is sent to adminlist


What is in Mailman's 'error' log for this 'bug'?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 18 18:31:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 09:31:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.9_rc1
In-Reply-To: <1161186494.5013.5.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610180931010921ff3c17fa@Notebook>

Roman Hultay wrote:
>
>I have several questions which may or may not be newbie-like:
>
>1. I would like to disable the ability for the public to see
>http://mydomain.tld/mailman/lists


I think you would have to address this in your web server.


>2. I would like to allow a specific user to be capable of adding mailing
>lists via the web interface


Establish a list creator password via bin/mmsitepass (see its --help)
and tell the user what it is. Depending on how your MTA delivers to
Mailman and whether or not it is 'integrated' you may still need to
deal manually with aliases.


>3. I would like to change the From: field on all messages to a
>definitive e-mail address on each list


Se the General Options->anonymous_list setting which will replace the
From: with the list address. This is all you can do without modifying
code. You can set Reply-To: to an arbitrary, specific address, also
under General Options.


>4. I would like to remove the attachment / footer containing list
>information


Go to Non-digest options and remove all the text from msg_footer. Do
the same for Digest options->digest_footer if you're concerned about
digests too.

You might find it helpful in geneal to go through the web admin
interface pages and see what's available. Also, see the FAQ
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>, and see the (abeit old
and/or incomplete) admin docs at <http://www.list.org/admins.html>
(and in the distribution tarball).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 18 19:39:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 10:39:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] external web interface
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610180908020671a1b0b101@Notebook>
Message-ID: <PC176020061018103937007857c0e933@Notebook>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>BRAVAL Fran?ois wrote:
>> 
>>-add to mm_cfg.py : 
>>  DEFAULT_URL_HOST ='machine2.mydomain.com'
>>  add_virtualhost('machine2.mydomain.com','machine1.mydomain.com')
>
>
>This has to do with the problem - see below.
>
<snip>
>
>Setting DEFAULT_URL_HOST and add_virtual_host in mm_cfg.py won't affect
>this. What you need in mm_cfg.py is
>
>VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off
>
>so all lists will appear on all domain's overview pages.


Actually, if you want to access the web interface only from machine2,
the above DEFAULT_URL_HOST and add_virtual_host settings are what you
want, and you don't need VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off, but you also
need to run fix_url to update the existing lists' web_page_url as
explained in
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From szybalski at gmail.com  Wed Oct 18 20:11:50 2006
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 13:11:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
Message-ID: <804e5c70610181111ib3284e7k7b68aa03f2227c6d@mail.gmail.com>

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-August/thread.html#52865

Hello,
I have similar problem as was discussed in link i just gave.
When i send email to the list. It get's received,

Oct 16 14:11:12 localhost postfix/qmgr[1153]: BECCC25C12A:
from=<email...>, size=203906, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Oct 16 14:11:13 localhost postfix/pipe[13741]: BECCC25C12A:
to=<list at lists.example>, relay=mailman, delay=3, status=sent
(lists.example.com)
Oct 16 14:11:13 localhost postfix/qmgr[1153]: BECCC25C12A: removed

 then it gets archived and then it tries to sent it out.

/var/log/mailman/smtp-failure
says
Oct 18 11:47:06 2006 (29893) delivery to email at email failed with code
-1: (110, 'Connection timed out')

/var/log/mailman/smtp
says:
Oct 18 11:47:06 2006 (29893)
<804e5c70610161138j444c3757j7e406a9b9ac81a65 at mail.gmail.com> smtp for
34 recips, completed in 378.081 seconds

when i do
>mail my at email.com
...etc

/var/log/mail.log says:
Oct 18 12:01:03 localhost postfix/qmgr[29672]: 2EE1025C0C2:
from=<lucas at example.com>, size=317, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Oct 18 12:01:04 localhost postfix/smtp[29961]: 2EE1025C0C2:
to=<myadress at site.org>, relay=smtp.sbcglobal.yahoo.com[68.142.229.41],
delay=1, status=sent (250 ok 1161194556 qp 85909)
Oct 18 12:01:04 localhost postfix/qmgr[29672]: 2EE1025C0C2: removed

compname:/var/lib/mailman/locks# ls
master-qrunner  master-qrunner.compname.29686

and /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out and retry has files in it

My setup is here:
http://acm.cs.uic.edu/modules/mediawiki/index.php/Debian#Mailman_on_Debian_with_Postfix.2C_instalation_and_configuration

OS: Debian stable/ postfix/ mailman with relay through sbcglobal

Permisions for mailman folder are:

drwxrwsr-x   4 root list 4096 2006-06-16 13:02 archives
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root   20 2006-10-18 10:44 bin -> /usr/lib/mailman/bin
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root   24 2006-10-18 10:44 cgi-bin ->
/usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root   21 2006-10-18 10:44 cron -> /usr/lib/mailman/cron
drwxrwsr-x   2 root list 4096 2006-10-18 11:59 data
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root   25 2006-10-18 10:44 icons ->
/usr/share/images/mailman
drwxrwsr-x   5 root list 4096 2006-06-23 17:37 lists
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root   18 2006-10-18 10:44 locks -> ../../lock/mailman
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root   17 2006-10-18 10:44 logs -> ../../log/mailman
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root   21 2006-10-18 10:44 mail -> /usr/lib/mailman/mail
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root   24 2006-10-18 10:44 Mailman ->
/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman
drwxrwsr-x  29 root list 4096 2006-06-16 13:02 messages
drwxrwsr-x  11 list list 4096 2006-06-16 13:05 qfiles
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root   24 2006-10-18 10:44 scripts ->
/usr/lib/mailman/scripts
drwxrwsr-x   2 root list 4096 2006-03-29 13:58 spam
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root   12 2006-10-18 10:44 templates -> /etc/mailman
drwxrwsr-x   4 root list 4096 2006-10-18 10:44 tests

Could you guys tell me what might be the problem?
Lucas


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 18 21:49:45 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 12:49:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70610181111ib3284e7k7b68aa03f2227c6d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061018124945092123005e86@Notebook>

Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
>
>/var/log/mailman/smtp-failure
>says
>Oct 18 11:47:06 2006 (29893) delivery to email at email failed with code
>-1: (110, 'Connection timed out')
>
>/var/log/mailman/smtp
>says:
>Oct 18 11:47:06 2006 (29893)
><804e5c70610161138j444c3757j7e406a9b9ac81a65 at mail.gmail.com> smtp for
>34 recips, completed in 378.081 seconds
>
>when i do
>>mail my at email.com
>...etc
>
>/var/log/mail.log says:
>Oct 18 12:01:03 localhost postfix/qmgr[29672]: 2EE1025C0C2:
>from=<lucas at example.com>, size=317, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>Oct 18 12:01:04 localhost postfix/smtp[29961]: 2EE1025C0C2:
>to=<myadress at site.org>, relay=smtp.sbcglobal.yahoo.com[68.142.229.41],
>delay=1, status=sent (250 ok 1161194556 qp 85909)
>Oct 18 12:01:04 localhost postfix/qmgr[29672]: 2EE1025C0C2: removed


What's in mail.log for the failed transactions?

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>
(which I just wrote) for further debugging hints.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Francois.Braval at dr8.cnrs.fr  Thu Oct 19 10:19:52 2006
From: Francois.Braval at dr8.cnrs.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?BRAVAL_Fran=E7ois?=)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:19:52 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] external web interface
Message-ID: <4192A4A6366BAD44820A9DE6B71A1AD4015B576A@cesar.dcal.cnrs.fr>

Hi again

I will use the first solution for the moment as I want 2 web servers: an internal one and one in our dmz for testing purpose.
The VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off setting works great and I got no longer a 'bug' error on list creation.
I keep the second way in mind for future usage
Continue testing...

Thx mark
 

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
> Envoy? : mercredi 18 octobre 2006 19:40
> ? : BRAVAL Fran?ois; mailman-users at python.org
> Objet : Re: [Mailman-Users] external web interface
> 
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> >BRAVAL Fran?ois wrote:
> >> 
> >>-add to mm_cfg.py : 
> >>  DEFAULT_URL_HOST ='machine2.mydomain.com'
> >>  add_virtualhost('machine2.mydomain.com','machine1.mydomain.com')
> >
> >
> >This has to do with the problem - see below.
> >
> <snip>
> >
> >Setting DEFAULT_URL_HOST and add_virtual_host in mm_cfg.py 
> won't affect
> >this. What you need in mm_cfg.py is
> >
> >VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off
> >
> >so all lists will appear on all domain's overview pages.
> 
> 
> Actually, if you want to access the web interface only from machine2,
> the above DEFAULT_URL_HOST and add_virtual_host settings are what you
> want, and you don't need VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off, but you also
> need to run fix_url to update the existing lists' web_page_url as
> explained in
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.
069.htp>.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 


From patrice.rossel at bluemail.ch  Thu Oct 19 12:25:12 2006
From: patrice.rossel at bluemail.ch (patrice.rossel at bluemail.ch)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:25:12 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 32, Issue 43
Message-ID: <10214219.69101161253512723.JavaMail.webmail@ps3zhb.bluewin.ch>

Merci pour vos messages! mais je ne comprends pas bien l'anglais. 
Largement inform? de vos activit?s, je vous sugg?re de supprimer mon 
adresse. Tous mes bons voeux, Patrice Rossel
----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----
Von: mailman-users-request at python.org
Datum: 19.10.2006 12:00
An: <mailman-users at python.org>
Betreff: Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 32, Issue 43

Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to
	mailman-users at python.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	mailman-users-request at python.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	mailman-users-owner at python.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more 
specific
than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Users digest..."
Today's Topics:

   1. external web interface (BRAVAL Fran?ois)
   2. Mailman 2.1.9_rc1 (Roman Hultay)
   3. Re: external web interface (Mark Sapiro)
   4. Re: Mailman 2.1.9_rc1 (Mark Sapiro)
   5. Re: external web interface (Mark Sapiro)
   6. Can't send messages to list (Lukasz Szybalski)
   7. Re: Can't send messages to list (Mark Sapiro)
   8. Re: external web interface (BRAVAL Fran?ois)
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
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Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%
40python.org/




From Francois.Braval at dr8.cnrs.fr  Thu Oct 19 13:54:46 2006
From: Francois.Braval at dr8.cnrs.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?BRAVAL_Fran=E7ois?=)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:54:46 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] external web interface
Message-ID: <4192A4A6366BAD44820A9DE6B71A1AD4015B5781@cesar.dcal.cnrs.fr>

Err.. No

In fact, it doesn't seem to work.
The URL is machine2.domain.com but the title of the page is machine1.domain.com
When I create a new list, it uses the machine1.domain.com domain 

If I remove the VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off and set the DEFAULT_URL_HOST to machine2.domain.com. I get a 'bug' error.

See my error log.

Oct 19 13:32:48 2006 (10276) command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases (status: 127, Unknown error 127)
Oct 19 13:32:48 2006 admin(10276): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 
admin(10276): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----] 
admin(10276): [----- Traceback ------] 
admin(10276): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(10276):   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
admin(10276):     main()
admin(10276):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 56, in main
admin(10276):     process_request(doc, cgidata)
admin(10276):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 238, in process_request
admin(10276):     sys.modules[modname].create(mlist, cgi=1)
admin(10276):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232, in create
admin(10276):     _update_maps()
admin(10276):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in _update_maps
admin(10276):     raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
admin(10276): RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases (status: 127, Unknown error 127)
admin(10276): [----- Python Information -----] 
admin(10276): sys.version     =   2.4.1 (#1, May 16 2005, 15:19:29) 
[GCC 4.0.0 20050512 (Red Hat 4.0.0-5)] 
admin(10276): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python 
admin(10276): sys.prefix      =   /usr 
admin(10276): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr 
admin(10276): sys.path        =   /usr 
admin(10276): sys.platform    =   linux2 
admin(10276): [----- Environment Variables -----] 
admin(10276): 	HTTP_COOKIE: test3+admin=280200000069d40f3645732800000031373330346536393039363237623233393263616130383239646231353366643932383335656338; test+admin=2802000000695bcb3645732800000066306166346133613861626464656366333133666162353636393864393733383731383335356535 
admin(10276): 	SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.0.54 (Fedora) 
admin(10276): 	SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/create 
admin(10276): 	SERVER_SIGNATURE: <address>Apache/2.0.54 (Fedora) Server at machine2.domain.fr Port 80</address>
admin(10276): 
admin(10276): 	REQUEST_METHOD: POST 
admin(10276): 	HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE: 300 
admin(10276): 	SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 
admin(10276): 	QUERY_STRING:  
admin(10276): 	CONTENT_LENGTH: 151 
admin(10276): 	HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7 
admin(10276): 	HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; fr; rv:1.8.0.7) Gecko/20060909 Firefox/1.5.0.7 
admin(10276): 	HTTP_CONNECTION: keep-alive 
admin(10276): 	HTTP_REFERER: http://machine2.domain.fr  
admin(10276): 	SERVER_NAME: machine2.domain.fr 
admin(10276): 	REMOTE_ADDR: 194.xx.xxx.11 
admin(10276): 	SERVER_PORT: 80 
admin(10276): 	SERVER_ADDR: 194.xx.xxx.157 
admin(10276): 	DOCUMENT_ROOT: /var/www/html 
admin(10276): 	PYTHONPATH: /usr/local/mailman 
admin(10276): 	SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/create 
admin(10276): 	SERVER_ADMIN: root at localhost 
admin(10276): 	HTTP_HOST: machine2.domain.fr 
admin(10276): 	REQUEST_URI: /mailman/create 
admin(10276): 	HTTP_ACCEPT: text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5 
admin(10276): 	GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1 
admin(10276): 	REMOTE_PORT: 1315 
admin(10276): 	HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: fr,fr-fr;q=0.8,en-us;q=0.5,en;q=0.3 
admin(10276): 	CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded 
admin(10276): 	HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip,deflate 








> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : 
> mailman-users-bounces+francois.braval=dr8.cnrs.fr at python.org 
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+francois.braval=dr8.cnrs.fr at pyth
on.org] De la part de BRAVAL Fran?ois
> Envoy? : jeudi 19 octobre 2006 10:20
> ? : Mark Sapiro; mailman-users at python.org
> Objet : Re: [Mailman-Users] external web interface
> 
> Hi again
> 
> I will use the first solution for the moment as I want 2 web 
> servers: an internal one and one in our dmz for testing purpose.
> The VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off setting works great and I got 
> no longer a 'bug' error on list creation.
> I keep the second way in mind for future usage
> Continue testing...
> 
> Thx mark
>  
> 
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
> > Envoy? : mercredi 18 octobre 2006 19:40
> > ? : BRAVAL Fran?ois; mailman-users at python.org
> > Objet : Re: [Mailman-Users] external web interface
> > 
> > Mark Sapiro wrote:
> > 
> > >BRAVAL Fran?ois wrote:
> > >> 
> > >>-add to mm_cfg.py : 
> > >>   ='machine2.mydomain.com'
> > >>  add_virtualhost('machine2.mydomain.com','machine1.mydomain.com')
> > >
> > >
> > >This has to do with the problem - see below.
> > >
> > <snip>
> > >
> > >Setting DEFAULT_URL_HOST and add_virtual_host in mm_cfg.py 
> > won't affect
> > >this. What you need in mm_cfg.py is
> > >
> > >VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off
> > >
> > >so all lists will appear on all domain's overview pages.
> > 
> > 
> > Actually, if you want to access the web interface only from 
> machine2,
> > the above DEFAULT_URL_HOST and add_virtual_host settings 
> are what you
> > want, and you don't need VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off, but you also
> > need to run fix_url to update the existing lists' web_page_url as
> > explained in
> > <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.
> 069.htp>.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> > San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense 
> - B. Dylan
> > 
> > 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/francois.
braval%40dr8.cnrs.fr
> 
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq
01.027.htp
> 


From roman.hultay at infostore.ca  Thu Oct 19 17:34:52 2006
From: roman.hultay at infostore.ca (Roman Hultay)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:34:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing Lists
Message-ID: <1161272092.30865.1.camel@localhost>

How would one go about changing the To: field in received mailings?

i.e. it currently says 'hockey at mydomain.tld' but is it possible for it
to say the recipient? This would mean that each message is different for
each recipient atleast in the header.



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 19 17:56:29 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 08:56:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] external web interface
In-Reply-To: <4192A4A6366BAD44820A9DE6B71A1AD4015B5781@cesar.dcal.cnrs.fr>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610190856290984016a3255@Notebook>

BRAVAL Fran?ois wrote:
>
>If I remove the VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off and set the
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST to machine2.domain.com. I get a 'bug' error.
>
>See my error log.
>
>Oct 19 13:32:48 2006 (10276) command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases (status: 127, Unknown error 127)
>Oct 19 13:32:48 2006 admin(10276): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>admin(10276): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----]
>admin(10276): [----- Traceback ------]
>admin(10276): Traceback (most recent call last):
>admin(10276):   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
>admin(10276):     main()
>admin(10276):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 56, in main
>admin(10276):     process_request(doc, cgidata)
>admin(10276):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 238, in process_request
>admin(10276):     sys.modules[modname].create(mlist, cgi=1)
>admin(10276):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232, in create
>admin(10276):     _update_maps()
>admin(10276):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in _update_maps
>admin(10276):     raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
>admin(10276): RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias =
>/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases (status: 127, Unknown error 127)

This issue should have nothing to do with the settings of
VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW and DEFAULT_URL_HOST in mm_cfg.py.

The list has been created and the data/aliases and, if the host is in
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS, the data/virtual-mailman files have
been updated, and now the Postfix MTA module is calling
/usr/sbin/postalias to update the data/aliases.db file, and the
postalias command fails.

Assuming /usr/sbin/postalias is the correct path (if not, set it in
mm_cfg.py with POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD), this is almost certainly an
ownership/permissions issue.

Permissions should be at least 0660 on both the aliases and aliases.db
files and the owner:group should be the mailman user:group. In older
versions, bin/check_perms doesn't check all this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From nolet at sinauer.com  Thu Oct 19 17:42:40 2006
From: nolet at sinauer.com (Nathaniel Nolet)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:42:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is them max subject length?
Message-ID: <4635F15B-220D-4683-8F34-CD09B8C81497@sinauer.com>

Hello Mailman Users,

I recently rolled out a new mailserver and decided to use Mailman as  
the mailing list software.  Everything has been going smoothly except  
for one minor issue: it looks like sometimes a subject is too long  
and gets turned into "(No Subject)", while the real subject becomes  
the first line of the email.  I'd like to either change this setting  
or let my end users know how long is too long, but I can't find the  
max subject length documented anywhere, nor did it jump out at me on  
the web interface.

I'm sure it's documented somewhere, but after checking the FAQ, the  
Wiki, Google and The Fine Manuals I'm stumped.  Could someone point  
me in the right direction?  Or does Mailman not do this at all and I  
should look into that user's email client?

Thanks,
Nate Nolet


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 19 18:15:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:15:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing Lists
In-Reply-To: <1161272092.30865.1.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610190915150562910070a1@Notebook>

Roman Hultay wrote:

>How would one go about changing the To: field in received mailings?
>
>i.e. it currently says 'hockey at mydomain.tld' but is it possible for it
>to say the recipient? This would mean that each message is different for
>each recipient atleast in the header.


This is called Full personalization, and it is one of the settings
under Non-digest options if the installation is set so owners can
enable list personalization. I.e.,

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes

in mm_cfg.py. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.015.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 19 18:43:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:43:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is them max subject length?
In-Reply-To: <4635F15B-220D-4683-8F34-CD09B8C81497@sinauer.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061019094358053187e2f08d@Notebook>

Nathaniel Nolet wrote:
>
>it looks like sometimes a subject is too long  
>and gets turned into "(No Subject)", while the real subject becomes  
>the first line of the email.  I'd like to either change this setting  
>or let my end users know how long is too long, but I can't find the  
>max subject length documented anywhere, nor did it jump out at me on  
>the web interface.
>
>I'm sure it's documented somewhere, but after checking the FAQ, the  
>Wiki, Google and The Fine Manuals I'm stumped.  Could someone point  
>me in the right direction?  Or does Mailman not do this at all and I  
>should look into that user's email client?


There is no setting per se, nor is there any limit on Subject: length
per se. Mailman does manipulate Subject: headers in the process of
adding the subject_prefix if any. This may result in a subject which
is originally a single line being folded into multiple lines in accord
with RFC 2822, but all Subject: headers sent by Mailman should conform
to the RFC.

Look at the raw message as sent by Mailman. If the Subject: header is
not compliant with RFC 2822, then report that here. Otherwise, look at
the user's MUA (email client).

Note that if this only affects one or a few recipients of the message
but not all recipients, it is almost certainly a user's MUA issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Thu Oct 19 19:06:47 2006
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:06:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is them max subject length?
In-Reply-To: <4635F15B-220D-4683-8F34-CD09B8C81497@sinauer.com>
References: <4635F15B-220D-4683-8F34-CD09B8C81497@sinauer.com>
Message-ID: <20061019170647.GA4369@fmp.com>

Are you sure this isn't happening in a mail system component other than 
Mailman?  RFC 2822 specifies that "Each line of characters MUST be no more than
998 characters, and SHOULD be no more than 78 characters, excluding
the CRLF."  This includes headers.  My understanding of this is that an MTA is 
obligated to properly handle a header line of fewer than 78 characters, and is 
obligated to handle email with a header line length > 78 and < 998 characters, 
but may do so creativly, and may reject outright any email with a header line 
that exceeds 998 characters.  What you describe sounds like MTA behavior rather 
than Mailman behavior.  A few simple tests should answer this question.

Thus spake Nathaniel Nolet on Thu, Oct 19, 2006 at 10:42:40AM CDT
> Hello Mailman Users,
> 
> I recently rolled out a new mailserver and decided to use Mailman as  
> the mailing list software.  Everything has been going smoothly except  
> for one minor issue: it looks like sometimes a subject is too long  
> and gets turned into "(No Subject)", while the real subject becomes  
> the first line of the email.  I'd like to either change this setting  
> or let my end users know how long is too long, but I can't find the  
> max subject length documented anywhere, nor did it jump out at me on  
> the web interface.
> 
> I'm sure it's documented somewhere, but after checking the FAQ, the  
> Wiki, Google and The Fine Manuals I'm stumped.  Could someone point  
> me in the right direction?  Or does Mailman not do this at all and I  
> should look into that user's email client?

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Fighting against human |     PGP public key
FMP Computer Services |    creativity is like   |      available at
512-259-1190          |    trying to eradicate  | <http://pubkeys.fmp.com>
http://www.fmp.com    |        dandelions"      |
                      |      (Pamela Jones)     |


From scott at fyrenice.com  Thu Oct 19 19:59:57 2006
From: scott at fyrenice.com (Dr. Scott S. Jones)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:59:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't get mailman and exim4 talking on my debian 3.1
Message-ID: <20061019175956.GA5763@xmission.com>

For some reason, after a recent nightmare with a hosed partition table, my
system which had a working Mailman 2.1.5 version on it, now refuses to
connect to exim4 and get my mail out to my lists. 

Here's a snippted from /var/log/mailman/smtp-failure. I have no idea what
these things mean but hoping someone here can help: 

Oct 19 11:36:12 2006 (2493) Low level smtp error: (110, 'Connection timed
out'), msgid: <mailman.23.1161064582.2493.sanchiro-patients at fyrenice.com>
Oct 19 11:36:12 2006 (2493) delivery to scott at fyrenice.com failed with code
-1: (110, 'Connection timed out')
Oct 19 11:39:21 2006 (2493) Low level smtp error: (110, 'Connection timed
out'), msgid: <mailman.24.1161064582.2493.sanchiro-patients at fyrenice.com>
Oct 19 11:39:22 2006 (2493) delivery to sanchiro-patients-owner at fyrenice.com
failed with code -1: (110, 'Connection timed out')
Oct 19 11:40:54 2006 (2493) Low level smtp error: (4, 'Interrupted system
call'), msgid: <mailman.0.1161100680.28041.sanchiro-patients at fyrenice.com>
Oct 19 11:40:55 2006 (2493) delivery to scott at fyrenice.com failed with code
-1: (4, 'Interrupted system call')
Oct 19 11:44:16 2006 (5556) Low level smtp error: (110, 'Connection timed
out'), msgid: <mailman.6.1160859275.2493.sanchiro-patients at fyrenice.com>
Oct 19 11:44:16 2006 (5556) delivery to scott at fyrenice.com failed with code
-1: (110, 'Connection timed out')
Oct 19 11:47:26 2006 (5556) Low level smtp error: (110, 'Connection timed
out'), msgid: <mailman.7.1160859276.2493.sanchiro-patients at fyrenice.com>
Oct 19 11:47:26 2006 (5556) delivery to sanchiro-patients-owner at fyrenice.com
failed with code -1: (110, 'Connection timed out')

When I revived my system, I couldn't get mailman to even respond until I
changed my exim4.conf.template file to exim4.conf.template.new, replacing it
with my older exim4.conf.template file. The .new file which apparently was
created during an apt-get update pass, contained NO INFORMATION ABOUT
MAILMAN, while the old exim4.conf.template file had all my Mailman
references. 

I am reading the !@#$#$@%^$%*ing manual, for those who would urge the RTFM
invective upon me. As yet, I can find no answers to help resolve this. It
would be nice if there were some probe utility that would verify everything
that needs to be in place, for mailman to work on a debian system. 

Thanks for any suggestions with this. 

btw, if I send to one of my lists, I get no response at any included list
recipient addresses though the message shows up in the archives for the list
as if it had gone out. Correction, the archives of all my lists work, i.e.,
thy collect mail sent out to each list, though none of the mail sent reaches
any recipient. 

Scott

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From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 19 21:06:51 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:06:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't get mailman and exim4 talking on my
	debian 3.1
In-Reply-To: <20061019175956.GA5763@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610191206510781ed94d800@Notebook>

Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote:
>
>For some reason, after a recent nightmare with a hosed partition table, my
>system which had a working Mailman 2.1.5 version on it, now refuses to
>connect to exim4 and get my mail out to my lists.
>
>Here's a snippted from /var/log/mailman/smtp-failure. I have no idea what
>these things mean but hoping someone here can help:
>
>Oct 19 11:36:12 2006 (2493) Low level smtp error: (110, 'Connection timed
>out'), msgid: <mailman.23.1161064582.2493.sanchiro-patients at fyrenice.com>
>Oct 19 11:36:12 2006 (2493) delivery to scott at fyrenice.com failed with code
>-1: (110, 'Connection timed out')
>Oct 19 11:39:21 2006 (2493) Low level smtp error: (110, 'Connection timed
>out'), msgid: <mailman.24.1161064582.2493.sanchiro-patients at fyrenice.com>
>Oct 19 11:39:22 2006 (2493) delivery to sanchiro-patients-owner at fyrenice.com
>failed with code -1: (110, 'Connection timed out')
>Oct 19 11:40:54 2006 (2493) Low level smtp error: (4, 'Interrupted system
>call'), msgid: <mailman.0.1161100680.28041.sanchiro-patients at fyrenice.com>
>Oct 19 11:40:55 2006 (2493) delivery to scott at fyrenice.com failed with code
>-1: (4, 'Interrupted system call')
>Oct 19 11:44:16 2006 (5556) Low level smtp error: (110, 'Connection timed
>out'), msgid: <mailman.6.1160859275.2493.sanchiro-patients at fyrenice.com>
>Oct 19 11:44:16 2006 (5556) delivery to scott at fyrenice.com failed with code
>-1: (110, 'Connection timed out')
>Oct 19 11:47:26 2006 (5556) Low level smtp error: (110, 'Connection timed
>out'), msgid: <mailman.7.1160859276.2493.sanchiro-patients at fyrenice.com>
>Oct 19 11:47:26 2006 (5556) delivery to sanchiro-patients-owner at fyrenice.com
>failed with code -1: (110, 'Connection timed out')


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>.


>When I revived my system, I couldn't get mailman to even respond until I
>changed my exim4.conf.template file to exim4.conf.template.new, replacing it
>with my older exim4.conf.template file. The .new file which apparently was
>created during an apt-get update pass, contained NO INFORMATION ABOUT
>MAILMAN, while the old exim4.conf.template file had all my Mailman
>references.


Almost all if not absolutely all Mailman specific stuff in exim.conf
has to do with delivery of incoming mail to Mailman, not with Mailman
sending.

Is Exim listening and accepting connects on localhost port 25?

Can you successfully 'telnet localhost 25'?


>It
>would be nice if there were some probe utility that would verify everything
>that needs to be in place, for mailman to work on a debian system.


That request/remark would be more appropriate on a Debian support list.


>btw, if I send to one of my lists, I get no response at any included list
>recipient addresses though the message shows up in the archives for the list
>as if it had gone out. Correction, the archives of all my lists work, i.e.,
>thy collect mail sent out to each list, though none of the mail sent reaches
>any recipient.


So incoming mail is reaching Mailman (presumably through the Mailman
spesific router and transport in Exim) and being processed by Mailman
whish is unable to send to the list members because of the errors
logged in smtp-failure. This basically says everything is working
except SMTP delivery from Mailman to Exim.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Thu Oct 19 21:31:03 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:31:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-deleting mail from outside .no?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0610171751180.27382@honbori.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <C15D2087.F441%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 10/17/06 9:00 AM, "Thomas Gramstad" <thomas at ifi.uio.no> wrote:

> I have many small lists in Norwegian and they're all being
> hit by a lot of spam. Yes, the spam filter holds them back --
> but then I get a /lot/ of mail about new messages waiting,
> and it's a big job moderating them.
> 
> What I really want is the option to set that anything mailed from
> an address that does not end with .no is automatically deleted and
> I never see it. Is that possible, per list or even per domain/for
> all lists?


As has been said, the MTA is likely the better venue for doing this, as SMTP
5xx rejections can be arranged.

That aside, are there *no* .com, .org, .edu etc within Norway (without the
trailing .no), which contain potential list subscribers?

For example, no one at hydro.com would want to be a list member.  (Domain
obtained on my first attempt, a Google search for Norsk Hydro.)

  --John




From ashley at pcraft.com  Thu Oct 19 23:50:14 2006
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:50:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalization Question
Message-ID: <4537F316.4040304@pcraft.com>


    I'm helping a customer set up three new lists and am running against 
a small issue.  I have OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION turned on and 
when we send a message to the list address, the message has:

    Subject: [whatever subject]
    From: <whoever posted the message>
    Sender: <[listname]-bounces at hostname>
    Reply-To: <the explicit reply-to we set>
    Date: <posted date>
    To: <subscriber at address.com>
    CC: <[listname]@hostname.com>

    How do I get rid of the Sender and CC lines?

    I don't notice those lines on other lists (that don't have 
personalization turned on.)


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 20 01:15:22 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:15:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalization Question
In-Reply-To: <4537F316.4040304@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061019161522087527432721@Notebook>

Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:
>
>    I'm helping a customer set up three new lists and am running against 
>a small issue.  I have OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION turned on and 
>when we send a message to the list address, the message has:
>
>    Subject: [whatever subject]
>    From: <whoever posted the message>
>    Sender: <[listname]-bounces at hostname>
>    Reply-To: <the explicit reply-to we set>
>    Date: <posted date>
>    To: <subscriber at address.com>
>    CC: <[listname]@hostname.com>
>
>    How do I get rid of the Sender and CC lines?


The Sender: header with listname-bounces is in every post sent by
Mailman whether personalized or not. Whether or not and how you see it
depends on the MUA (email client) you use to read the message. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.
You can remove it only by hacking Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py as
mentioned in the FAQ. 

The Cc: listname is intentionally added to facilitate replying to the
list. If you set reply_goes_to_list to 'this list' (not recommended)
or set anonymous_list to 'yes' it won't be added, but otherwise, you
can only remove it by modifying Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From drnick at physics.byu.edu  Fri Oct 20 02:01:43 2006
From: drnick at physics.byu.edu (Blatter, Nicholas)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 18:01:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman performance
Message-ID: <5DC600B80DB6EE4BAB1D631E14FBADCC2A9178@bohr.physics.byu.edu>

Hello,

I'm using Mailman 2.1.5 and Postfix to manage a small (~500) member list
and I recently went through and removed everyone from the list, and then
added them back in. After doing so I was watching the progress of
sending the Welcome message, and noticed that Mailman is taking an
exceptionally long time to send the messages out.

It looks like the messages are getting stuck in the qfiles/out
directory, and the smtp log shows many of the following entries:

Oct 19 17:30:12 2006 (2411) <mailman.25.1161298522.9123.undergrad at x.edu>
smtp for 1 recips, completed in 80.170 seconds

Every message is taking almost exactly 80.1 seconds, with no derivation.
Postfix's mailq is empty, and all other mail is getting through just
fine.

Anyone have any suggestions?  Why is it taking so long for it to send
each message?

Thanks!


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 20 02:23:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 17:23:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman performance
In-Reply-To: <5DC600B80DB6EE4BAB1D631E14FBADCC2A9178@bohr.physics.byu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610191723050390d19762cb@Notebook>

Blatter, Nicholas wrote:
>
>Every message is taking almost exactly 80.1 seconds, with no derivation.
>Postfix's mailq is empty, and all other mail is getting through just
>fine.
>
>Anyone have any suggestions?  Why is it taking so long for it to send
>each message?


Because it takes Postfix that long to respond to something. The answer
is in Postfix, not in Mailman.

Search the FAQ <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> for
performance. There may also be some clues in the archives of this list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From spyropolymiadis at kromestudios.com  Fri Oct 20 10:05:33 2006
From: spyropolymiadis at kromestudios.com (Spyro Polymiadis)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 17:35:33 +0930
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restricting numbers of emails per thread
Message-ID: <4538834D.5080502@kromestudios.com>

Hi all,

Does anyone know if there is a way to limit the number of posts in any 
given thread in a mail list?

We've got some ppl here that just post for the hell of it and just waste 
time in general, So we're looking at clamping down on some things..

Any ideas?

Cheers
Spyro



This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone. Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this message and its attachments, which does not relate to the official business of the sending company must be taken not to have been sent or endorsed by the sending company or any of its related entities. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from computer virus or other defect.



From Francois.Braval at dr8.cnrs.fr  Fri Oct 20 11:39:11 2006
From: Francois.Braval at dr8.cnrs.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?BRAVAL_Fran=E7ois?=)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 11:39:11 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] external web interface
Message-ID: <4192A4A6366BAD44820A9DE6B71A1AD4015B57B4@cesar.dcal.cnrs.fr>

I don't get it !
Permissions seems to be right on aliases* files. Owner is mailman:mailman perms is 777 for now.

2 questions:
With my config, postfix+mailman on machine1, apache on machine2
- /usr/sbin/postalias (and portmap) is on machine1, not needed on machine 2, right ?
- which user (or group) runs the /usr/sbin/postalias command when creating a list on machine2 with the web interface
     do I need to add this user to the postfix group or something ?
 
When I was using postfix+mailman+apache on the same machine, everything was working fine
So I also think it is a perms problem, but can't fix it...


> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
> Envoy? : jeudi 19 octobre 2006 17:56
> ? : BRAVAL Fran?ois; mailman-users at python.org
> Objet : RE: [Mailman-Users] external web interface
> 
> BRAVAL Fran?ois wrote:
> >
> >If I remove the VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off and set the
> >DEFAULT_URL_HOST to machine2.domain.com. I get a 'bug' error.
> >
> >See my error log.
> >
> >Oct 19 13:32:48 2006 (10276) command failed: 
> /usr/sbin/postalias /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases (status: 
> 127, Unknown error 127)
> >Oct 19 13:32:48 2006 admin(10276): 
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> >admin(10276): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----]
> >admin(10276): [----- Traceback ------]
> >admin(10276): Traceback (most recent call last):
> >admin(10276):   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", 
> line 101, in run_main
> >admin(10276):     main()
> >admin(10276):   File 
> "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 56, in main
> >admin(10276):     process_request(doc, cgidata)
> >admin(10276):   File 
> "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 238, in 
> process_request
> >admin(10276):     sys.modules[modname].create(mlist, cgi=1)
> >admin(10276):   File 
> "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232, in create
> >admin(10276):     _update_maps()
> >admin(10276):   File 
> "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in _update_maps
> >admin(10276):     raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
> >admin(10276): RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias =
> >/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases (status: 127, Unknown error 127)
> 
> This issue should have nothing to do with the settings of
> VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW and DEFAULT_URL_HOST in mm_cfg.py.
> 
> The list has been created and the data/aliases and, if the host is in
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS, the data/virtual-mailman files have
> been updated, and now the Postfix MTA module is calling
> /usr/sbin/postalias to update the data/aliases.db file, and the
> postalias command fails.
> 
> Assuming /usr/sbin/postalias is the correct path (if not, set it in
> mm_cfg.py with POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD), this is almost certainly an
> ownership/permissions issue.
> 
> Permissions should be at least 0660 on both the aliases and aliases.db
> files and the owner:group should be the mailman user:group. In older
> versions, bin/check_perms doesn't check all this.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 


From R.Bannocks at nhm.ac.uk  Fri Oct 20 11:50:05 2006
From: R.Bannocks at nhm.ac.uk (Robert Bannocks)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 10:50:05 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Are messages queues in the face of SMTP failures
Message-ID: <509BA58A394D564BA1832B1464E424288253@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>

I have just mass subscribed 300 people to a list, unfortunatly I
selected wrongly the "Send welcome messages to new subscribees?" and
"Send welcome messages to new subscribees?" options
resulting in 600 notices being prepared.  Fortunatly I had shut downt
the SMTP listner. 
 
My question.  Will mailman queue or re-create these messages, if so how
can I stop them being sent out as they are not required.
 
TIA and regards.
 
RB
 


From secretary at healheadingley.org.uk  Thu Oct 19 22:21:06 2006
From: secretary at healheadingley.org.uk (Heal Secretary)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 21:21:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail list script sending out spam and crashing
	server big style
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061019210843.03fb1e78@healheadingley.org.uk>

My web host suspended my account because -

"mail list script sending out spam and crashing server big style"

They tell me that this was some kind of highjacking of my Mailman 
script to send out spam.

Can anyone explain what actually happened, please, and what I can do 
to stop it happening again?

I am using Mailman 2.1.9.cp 1. I am locked in to CPanel and not at 
liberty, myself to do an upgrade from this version.

The host has now unblocked my account after some pleading on my part, 
that I had nothing to do with it.

The web host's error message is too short to be much help to me. They 
say I can get more information from the logs in CPanel. I have tried 
this, but the logs all seem to talk of traffic on my web site, not my 
mailing lists. Does anyone know what to look for, and where, in CPanel?

I run 3 mailing lists on Mailman. All of them are members only. New 
members can only be signed up by me. Non members are not allowed to 
post to the lists.

I can't figure what I could do to make Mailman more secure.

Any ideas?

Thanks
Nigel


Secretary of Heal Headingley
Campaigning for a Sustainable Balanced Community
www.healheadingley.org.uk  



From e.conte at fraternity.it  Fri Oct 20 13:43:35 2006
From: e.conte at fraternity.it (E. Conte Fraternity)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:43:35 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] infonews@fraternity.it doesn't work
Message-ID: <003201c6f43d$00750810$fe7aa8c0@CPQ18836310993>

I am the administrator of infonews at fraternity.it .  At the moment I have problems to send messages to the users of my mailinglist. I receive an error message: "IOError: [Errno 28] No space left on device"
Please could someone help me to solv the matter?
Thanks in advance

Edoardo Conte


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From justbrits at comcast.net  Fri Oct 20 15:44:42 2006
From: justbrits at comcast.net (JB@comcast)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 08:44:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail list script sending out spam and
	crashingserver big style
References: <7.0.1.0.0.20061019210843.03fb1e78@healheadingley.org.uk>
Message-ID: <0c3c01c6f44d$e60627a0$6401a8c0@actualshop>

Nigel:

Does your host with cPanel offer SpamAssassin ??

I had exact same prob early on.  My Host ( with shameless plug -:) = Bluehost.com) suggested I turn it on so I did and for 18-20 months NO more problems!!

Regards.............

Ed

From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Fri Oct 20 16:04:52 2006
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:04:52 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] where to customize other MM pages?
Message-ID: <20061020155900.M62006@192.168.11.51>

Hello,

Can anyone help me find pages which I need to cusomize, in particular I 
want to customize the page on which when you have given your email address 
you can:

unsubscribe
have your password sent to you
change subscription options (you need to specify a pass to be able to do 
that)

This page is usually under domain.tld/mailman/options/LIST_NAME

Many thanks in advance for pointing me in the right direction.


--
Zbigniew Szalbot


From jeff.donsbach at gmail.com  Fri Oct 20 15:47:40 2006
From: jeff.donsbach at gmail.com (Jeff Donsbach)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 09:47:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] infonews@fraternity.it doesn't work
In-Reply-To: <003201c6f43d$00750810$fe7aa8c0@CPQ18836310993>
References: <003201c6f43d$00750810$fe7aa8c0@CPQ18836310993>
Message-ID: <22976ef80610200647u490c365bw5a8e7dbe07973f19@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/20/06, E. Conte Fraternity <e.conte at fraternity.it> wrote:
>
> I am the administrator of infonews at fraternity.it .  At the moment I have
> problems to send messages to the users of my mailinglist. I receive an error
> message: "IOError: [Errno 28] No space left on device"
> Please could someone help me to solv the matter?
> Thanks in advance



You've got a full disk on your system. Clean it up.


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Oct 20 16:53:57 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 09:53:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail list script sending out spam and crashing
	server big style
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20061019210843.03fb1e78@healheadingley.org.uk>
References: <7.0.1.0.0.20061019210843.03fb1e78@healheadingley.org.uk>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610200753j5e11c7cbx4f5802879473381a@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/19/06, Heal Secretary <secretary at healheadingley.org.uk> wrote:
> I am using Mailman 2.1.9.cp 1. I am locked in to CPanel and not at
> liberty, myself to do an upgrade from this version.

If you or someone in your organization has the expertise, you might
consider switching to an alternate host that gives you full control.
E.g., a company that offers VPSs; you can usually get cPanel, but also
have full shell access to the 'server' to be able to update any
software you want (e.g., to non-cPanel versions).

I, personally, use www.vpsland.com, and derive no economic or social
benefit from recommending them (however, they're quite inexpensive and
have never given me problems.)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Oct 20 16:54:46 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 09:54:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Are messages queues in the face of SMTP failures
In-Reply-To: <509BA58A394D564BA1832B1464E424288253@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>
References: <509BA58A394D564BA1832B1464E424288253@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610200754p3cf70b0cx2868989e66a80830@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/20/06, Robert Bannocks <R.Bannocks at nhm.ac.uk> wrote:
> My question.  Will mailman queue or re-create these messages, if so how
> can I stop them being sent out as they are not required.

I believe they'll be placed in the 'retry' queue after they fail the
first time. You should be able to just remove them from there.

Mailman won't actually 're-create' the messages, as far as I know.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Oct 20 16:57:59 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 09:57:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restricting numbers of emails per thread
In-Reply-To: <4538834D.5080502@kromestudios.com>
References: <4538834D.5080502@kromestudios.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610200757i3de26431xedd3b088544b0e59@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/20/06, Spyro Polymiadis <spyropolymiadis at kromestudios.com> wrote:
> Does anyone know if there is a way to limit the number of posts in any
> given thread in a mail list?
>
> We've got some ppl here that just post for the hell of it and just waste
> time in general, So we're looking at clamping down on some things..

This sort of content management seems (a) out of the scope of mailman,
and (b) an unrealistic expectation.

Primarily, there's nothing stopping a user from just starting a new
thread; email doesn't actually have any concept of 'threads'. The only
thing you might conceivably be able to do is limit the rate of posting
from a given user.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From scott at fyrenice.com  Fri Oct 20 19:51:17 2006
From: scott at fyrenice.com (Dr. Scott S. Jones)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 11:51:17 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] slow processing
Message-ID: <20061020175116.GA5271@xmission.com>

What might cause really slow processing of email sent to a list? I set up a
new list yesterday around 4:00 pm....didn't receive any response, until this
morning, I noticed that around 7:00 pm, the mail finally arrived. 

??

Scott

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From ml at ancalagon.inka.de  Fri Oct 20 18:01:28 2006
From: ml at ancalagon.inka.de (Thomas Hochstein)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 18:01:28 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] infonews@fraternity.it doesn't work
References: <003201c6f43d$00750810$fe7aa8c0@CPQ18836310993>
Message-ID: <alm.0610201801.6504@windlord.akallabeth.de>

"E. Conte Fraternity" schrieb:

> I receive an error message: "IOError: [Errno 28] No space left on device"

Then there is no more free space on your - presumably - harddisk.

> Please could someone help me to solv the matter?

Free some space.

-thh


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Oct 20 20:37:44 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:37:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] slow processing
In-Reply-To: <20061020175116.GA5271@xmission.com>
References: <20061020175116.GA5271@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610201137x3019bd13lc6e901f378b22e26@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/20/06, Dr. Scott S. Jones <scott at fyrenice.com> wrote:
> What might cause really slow processing of email sent to a list? I set up a
> new list yesterday around 4:00 pm....didn't receive any response, until this
> morning, I noticed that around 7:00 pm, the mail finally arrived.

This is most likely caused by MTA issues. Search the FAQ for 'performance'.

Is this the only list on that machine? Are you sure it wasn't a
one-time delay? (E.g., a nameserver that was temporarily inaccessible)


-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu  Fri Oct 20 20:43:40 2006
From: jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu (Jewel)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:43:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam - How is this happening?
Message-ID: <453918DC.4010607@washburn.edu>

I run a Mailman server and have noticed more recently that it seems spam 
is being posted to some lists but when I look at the headers the message 
was only posted to the mailman-owner or the owner of the list.  How is 
this happening?  Here is an example of a header.  From just looking at 
the message it looks like it was posted to the entire list but in 
reality it looks like the address was spoofed?  Please help.

Subject:
Every day you loose the sensations of seex!
From:
Meadows <addendumapartheid at rousselpartners.com>
Date:
Fri, 20 Oct 2006 23:53:27 +0900

To:
lawdeans-l at lists.washlaw.edu

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Thanks!

-- 
J


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 20 21:51:07 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 15:51:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam - How is this happening?
In-Reply-To: <453918DC.4010607@washburn.edu>
References: <453918DC.4010607@washburn.edu>
Message-ID: <1161373867.10862.24.camel@localhost>

On Fri, 2006-10-20 at 13:43 -0500, Jewel wrote:
> I run a Mailman server and have noticed more recently that it seems spam 
> is being posted to some lists but when I look at the headers the message 
> was only posted to the mailman-owner or the owner of the list.  How is 
> this happening?  

The spammer is sending to both <list> and <list-owner>.  I see these all
the time, but the copy sent to <list> gets held back for admin approval
because the poster isn't a list subscriber.  The copy sent to
<list-owner> does get though to us, assuming it isn't caught by normal
spam measures.

-Jim P.





From pdbogen at gmail.com  Sat Oct 21 03:44:42 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 20:44:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] slow processing
In-Reply-To: <20061020205840.GA11525@xmission.com>
References: <20061020175116.GA5271@xmission.com>
	<6fbe3da00610201137x3019bd13lc6e901f378b22e26@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061020205840.GA11525@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610201844g49b2a74eh133c67cfa7c619f8@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/20/06, Dr. Scott S. Jones <scott at fyrenice.com> wrote:
> Patrick Bogen [20/10/06 13:37 -0500]:
>
> > This is most likely caused by MTA issues. Search the FAQ for 'performance'.
> >
> > Is this the only list on that machine? Are you sure it wasn't a
> > one-time delay? (E.g., a nameserver that was temporarily inaccessible)
>
> Sorry to ask, but which FAQ am I to check for 'performance'?
>
>
That would be the Mailman FAQ that's linked at the bottom of every
mailing list mail. Also, please keep all replies on-list; it's likely
that there are people who know more or have better insight than I, so
they deserve the chance show me I'm wrong.


-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Oct 21 05:19:14 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 12:19:14 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] external web interface
In-Reply-To: <4192A4A6366BAD44820A9DE6B71A1AD4015B57B4@cesar.dcal.cnrs.fr>
References: <4192A4A6366BAD44820A9DE6B71A1AD4015B57B4@cesar.dcal.cnrs.fr>
Message-ID: <17721.37298.648011.110625@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

BRAVAL Fran?ois writes:

 > I don't get it !
 > Permissions seems to be right on aliases* files. Owner is
 > mailman:mailman perms is 777 for now.

It's probably not the aliases* *files* that are the issue.  Permission
to create in the mailman/data directory itself is also needed.

Note that the wrapper in mailman/mail/mailman (or
mailman/mail/wrapper) needs to be sgid (02755, IIRC).

Both postfix and mailman can be finicky about permissions being too
*loose*, because that is a security hole.  Use the check_perms script
to get the permissions *exactly* right.  (Since postaliases is
actually being run, it's probably not your current problem, but why
not just do things right?)

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Oct 21 06:56:01 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 13:56:01 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail list script sending out spam and
	crashing	server big style
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20061019210843.03fb1e78@healheadingley.org.uk>
References: <7.0.1.0.0.20061019210843.03fb1e78@healheadingley.org.uk>
Message-ID: <17721.43105.512240.526052@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Heal Secretary writes:

 > My web host suspended my account because -
 > 
 > "mail list script sending out spam and crashing server big style"

As far as I can see, you did everything right that you could do.  Do
check for the SpamAssassin feature mentioned by JB at comcast.  (This
should be on by default if available!)

Given the way you present the problem, my first question is, "did
addresses other than list subscribers receive the spam?"  If people
not on your list *did* get the spam, then your host and the mailman
developers may have a *big* problem, and it doesn't involve you that I
can see.  (Except that we owe you thanks for the report!)  Please give
us more details in that case---if it could happen to you, there's a
chance it could happen to everybody.

If list members did get it, then

1.  Check to make sure that none of your members sent it (even with a
    personally approved list, this does happen, unfortunately).

2.  Recheck your configuration to make sure that it really is set so
    that only members can post to the list, etc.  Everybody makes
    mistakes; sometimes the instructions are hard to understand.  If
    you're not sure, read the FAQ and anything you still don't
    understand, ask here.

3.  You can check your archives, which will tell you the interesting
    part (where the spam came from and how it got to Mailman) as well
    as the logs can.  Get the "mbox" file containing all the messages,
    and read it with a text editor (not a mail program!).  Find a spam
    message, and look at the headers preceding it.  There will be a
    series of "Received:" headers, tracing the history of the message
    as it is processed by various parts of the Internet mail system.

    You cannot completely trust these (professional spammers will
    surely try to obscure the ultimate source), but if you don't
    understand them, you can post *the whole block of headers* here.
    NOTE: You should include *everything*, but omit any "Approved:"
    header, that may contain your administrator password.  Do tell us
    that you removed it, and whether the password was correct or not.
    (It shouldn't be there, but if it is, it's a clue.)  There may
    also be private information such as member addresses.  You should
    obscure anything that you know is personal information.  (Eg, if
    your address "secretary at healheadingly.org.uk" were in the headers
    you could change it to "member at mydomain.tld".)

4.  I don't know anything about cPanel logs, so I don't know what's
    available, but Mailman provides a wide variety of separate logs.
    The directly relevant ones are called "post" and "smtp".  Others
    that might contain clues are "error" and "vette".  These logs are
    not necessarily sufficient; you would also need access to the MTA
    logs.  IIRC, cPanel did *not* give you access to *any* of the
    above in the past, maybe they've changed in very recent versions.

    If all you can find are web logs, then (as you suspected) they're
    not related to the spam incident---they're kept separately by the
    webserver.

Finally, please be reassured.  IMO, a system crash is not your
responsibility, except in a minor contributory way.  Most of the
difficulty in designing and administering multiuser hosts is in
ensuring that one user cannot crash the system, and enormous effort
has been devoted to creating robust systems for 40 years.  This is the
designers' and administrators' responsibility, not yours.  Of course,
even with modern systems, it's not easy to provide nearly 100%
reliability.  So you should cooperate with the administrators'
requests to improve stability and security of the system, but you need
not accept blame (unless you found errors in step 1 or 2 above, and
even then, that's "minor" as I wrote above).

Also IMO, any host that offers Mailman via cPanel service or similar
is implicitly taking responsibility for spam.  Spam is best handled by
the MTA that actually talks to other hosts on the Internet, not by
services that are "behind the MTA" as Mailman is.  As Brad Knowles
often says, if spam gets caught by Mailman's filters, you've already
lost the point.  Even the more effective tools that can be configured
for use with Mailman are not part of Mailman, and so difficult or
impossible to use correctly from cPanel.  Only if you have access to
the MTA (examples are Sendmail, Postfix, or Exim) and other programs
like SpamAssassin can you really take responsibility for
spam-fighting.  Under cPanel, that's the host administrators.

If the administrators are trying to "blame" you (and a summary,
automatic suspension of service qualifies), then you should suspect
that they are not doing their jobs properly, and that you and their
other customers are at risk of similar incidents in the future.  I
don't recommend aggressively criticising your host---their customer
relations may not reflect their administrative competence---but
preparing to move to one with better customer relations and better
recommendations from current subscribers is probably a good idea.

HTH


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Oct 21 07:19:42 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 14:19:42 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Restricting numbers of emails per thread
In-Reply-To: <4538834D.5080502@kromestudios.com>
References: <4538834D.5080502@kromestudios.com>
Message-ID: <17721.44526.745778.646096@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Spyro Polymiadis writes:

 > We've got some ppl here that just post for the hell of it and just waste 
 > time in general, So we're looking at clamping down on some things..

This is a political problem; there are no technical solutions....

If you've got power or consensus that a limit is appropriate, moderate
the people who are abusing the consensus limits.  (I would guess
that's why this process got dubbed "moderation" in the first place.)
Go to the Membership Management pages, and click on the Moderate
Member button for members you don't trust to pace themselves.
Somebody will have to actually read and pass judgment on individual
posts, of course.

If you have a pretty substantial majority that will go along, but you
want things to look more "fair", you can moderate everybody (there's a
"moderate all" button at the bottom of the page).  This will require
substantially more effort from the moderator(s) to keep the desired
traffic flowing.

If you "can't just do things like that", you're probably going to need
to adjust the human relationships before anything effective can be
done.  Whatever you do will be called "censorship", no matter how fair
you think it is---the targets will know that you're aiming at them.
(At least they'll figure it out as soon as their post gets rejected!)

Anything automatic can be abused, too.  For example, a simple limit on
thread length could be imposed by counting the number of references in
the "References" header.  Then somebody who wants to have the last
word simply stuffs that header with bogus references to max out the
count.  Somebody willing to look like a jerk doesn't even have to know
how the References header works; they just do self-replies until
they've maxed out the thread.  Somebody who wants to reply to a
"closed" thread just truncates the References header to an acceptable
count.

If you keep state on the server, the "jerk" method (as well as more
subtle variants that would be harder to assign blame for) still
"works".



From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Oct 21 07:24:30 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 14:24:30 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam - How is this happening?
In-Reply-To: <1161373867.10862.24.camel@localhost>
References: <453918DC.4010607@washburn.edu>
	<1161373867.10862.24.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <17721.44814.93625.560983@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Jim Popovitch writes:

 > The copy sent to <list-owner> does get though to us, assuming it
 > isn't caught by normal spam measures.

And of course it should.  If it gets past your normal spam measures
then the probability that it's a real problem with your lists is too
high to ignore; this exposure is what we list managers get paid for
(in whatever coin it is that caused us to take on the job).



From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Oct 21 07:44:51 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 14:44:51 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Spam - How is this happening?
In-Reply-To: <453918DC.4010607@washburn.edu>
References: <453918DC.4010607@washburn.edu>
Message-ID: <17721.46035.662795.327990@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Jewel writes:

 > I run a Mailman server and have noticed more recently that it seems spam 
 > is being posted to some lists

Is it actually getting through to the lists?  The fact that the spam
score was zero suggests that it does, and that your "Barracuda" spam
filter has no teeth.  You should look into this.

 > but when I look at the headers the message was only posted to the
 > mailman-owner or the owner of the list.  How is this happening?

This really isn't a question for this list (it's a general mail
question), but as long as I'm here....

First, you may have software that removes duplicates, and even if you
were addressed several times, you probably get the list-owner version
first due to list processing delays, and the list version gets
suppressed.  If you want to see what got to Mailman, you can look at
the "mbox" file in the list's archives.  (Presumably Mailman functions
normally on the outgoing side, so that's all you really need for this
purpose.)

Second, the headers that you post here do not tell the whole story.
Specifically, the addresses that your host actually delivers to are
not listed in the headers.  (Sometimes the particular mailbox you find
the message in is; in your case it's the "Delivered-To" header.
However, *other* deliveries are not mentioned in your message.)  The
addresses in the headers you see have nothing to do with where
delivery takes place[1], except by grace of the author.  Spammers are
nothing if not graceless!

To understand why this *must* be so, consider CCs to hosts on the
"other side" of the Internet; your host can't know if they were sent,
let alone delivered.  Or BCCs ("blind carbon copies") received by your
host---since they can't appear in the headers you receive by
definition, there must be another way to tell the system where to
deliver them.  This is what is called the "RFC 2821 Envelope Sender".

	      http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2821.txt

That's pretty rough stuff, though.  Maybe somebody else (the Mailman
FAQ?) has a good reference to a primer?


Footnotes: 
[1]  Strictly speaking, there are any number of cases where they are
the same, but that's because those authors are graceful, or use
graceful software. :-)



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 21 08:01:07 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 23:01:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] external web interface
In-Reply-To: <4192A4A6366BAD44820A9DE6B71A1AD4015B57B4@cesar.dcal.cnrs.fr>
Message-ID: <PC17602006102023010704532815302c@msapiro>

BRAVAL Fran?ois wrote:
>
>2 questions:
>With my config, postfix+mailman on machine1, apache on machine2
>- /usr/sbin/postalias (and portmap) is on machine1, not needed on 
>machine 2, right ?


Wrong. When you run the create script on the web interface on machine2,
it does the postalias and postmap commands to update aliases.db and
virtual-mailman.db. If those paths (as defined by POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD
and POSTFIX_MAP_CMD) don't exist, that's the reason for the error you
see.

Note that the lists have been created and aliases and virtual-mailman
have been updated, but the postalias and postmap commands will still
need to be run to update the .db files.


>- which user (or group) runs the /usr/sbin/postalias command when =
>creating a list on machine2 with the web interface


The user is the user under which the web server runs the CGI wrapper.
The group is the mailman group because the wrapper is SETGID.


>     do I need to add this user to the postfix group or something ?


You shouldn't have to. My understanding is anyone can run postalias and
postmap as long as that user/group has permissions on the files being
processed. If things are correct, the commands will run as group
mailman which will have permission.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 21 08:49:29 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 23:49:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't get mailman and exim4 talking on my
	debian 3.1
In-Reply-To: <20061020150130.GA6338@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061020234929029628152fa5@msapiro>

Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote:

>+++ Mark Sapiro [19/10/06 16:21 -0700]:
>> >> See
>> >> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>.
>> >
>> >I visited that page, followed all steps
>> 
>> 
>> Did you add the line
>> 
>>         self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1)
>> 
>> to Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py and restart Mailman and then look in
>> Mailman's 'error' log?
>
>Most certainly, I did that.....and in /var/log/mailman/error, the last
>several lines are: 
>
>Oct 18 21:55:35 2006 (2501) SHUNTING:
>1161203857.3452799+3ecbeaaf1a5fbda6bf0f479d323944f26e0cfde7
>Oct 19 00:40:45 2006 (18630) No such list "9october06":
>Oct 19 06:19:57 2006 (19471) No such list "2ls":
>Oct 19 14:46:12 2006 mailmanctl(9068): The master qrunner lock could not be
>acquired because it appears as if another
>master qrunner is already running.
>Oct 19 14:46:12 2006 mailmanctl(9068):
>Oct 19 14:56:19 2006 mailmanctl(9778): No child with pid: 8762
>Oct 19 14:56:19 2006 mailmanctl(9778): [Errno 3] No such process
>Oct 19 14:56:19 2006 mailmanctl(9778): Stale pid file removed.
>Oct 19 16:07:20 2006 (9786) Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost on port
>smtp
>Oct 19 16:46:35 2006 (2494) Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost on port
>smtp
>Oct 19 17:25:23 2006 (6185) admin.py access for non-existent list: test75
>
>I should note here that I have since cleaned out lists "test75",
>"9october06", "2ls", I don't think this file is indicative, since when
>viewed, those lists were already removed with 'rmlist'. 


That's why you see the "No such list" errors. Someone has tried to
access those lists - in the case of 'test75' via the admin interface,
in the case of the others, via perhaps listinfo, private or some other
script that doesn't log it's name.

Anyway, the only messages relevant to your issue are "Cannot connect to
SMTP server localhost on port smtp". I don't know why there aren't
also debug prints from the Python smtplib if the

        self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1)

line was added to SMTPDirect.py per the FAQ. Basically however, this
says that in these instances at least, SMTPDirect was unable to
connect at all to 'localhost' port 25.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 21 18:47:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 09:47:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] where to customize other MM pages?
In-Reply-To: <20061020155900.M62006@192.168.11.51>
Message-ID: <PC17602006102109472309063fc43201@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>Can anyone help me find pages which I need to cusomize, in particular I 
>want to customize the page on which when you have given your email address 
>you can:
>
>unsubscribe
>have your password sent to you
>change subscription options (you need to specify a pass to be able to do 
>that)
>
>This page is usually under domain.tld/mailman/options/LIST_NAME


Some pages are built from templates. If you look in Mailman's
templates/en/ (or your preferred language) directory, you will see all
the templates that are available. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>
for info on modifying templates.

Anything that isn't a template is built on the fly by the script that
produces it. In the above case, this is the 'options' script and the
particular page is the options login page. Thus the script that
produces it is Mailman/Cgi/options.py (all Mailman URLs of the form
http://example.com/mailman/xxx/... are processed by
Mailman/Cgi/xxx.py).

In this case, the login page is produced by the loginpage() function in
the options.py module.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tcroes at ctrcc.com  Sat Oct 21 20:07:15 2006
From: tcroes at ctrcc.com (Tony Croes)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 13:07:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help newbie with a common error (smrsh)?
Message-ID: <20061021181357.117F41E4004@bag.python.org>

I have just installed mailman on a RHEL4 system from the RedHat network via
RPM. I can reach the list and admin tools via the web (i.e. cgi working). I
can create lists, add new users and submit posts. However, these posts only
show up in the web archives. I'm not getting them as forwarded email
messages. 

When I look at the archives, I see repeated posts from Cron <mailman at server>
with the following error:

    "/bin/sh: mailman: command not found"

I've tried to follow the faq (3.14 Troubleshooting: No mail going out to
list members), but so far no luck. Here is some additional information:

mailman exists and is executable (tried as root):
[root at server mail]# /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
Usage: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman program [args...]
[root at server mail]# file mailman
mailman: setgid ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1
(SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.2.5, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not
stripped
[root at server mail]# ll mailman
-rwxrwsr-x 1 root mailman 19154 Aug 23 07:22 mailman

"smrsh" symlink:
[root at server mail]# ls /etc/smrsh/
mailman
[root at server mail]# file /etc/smrsh/mailman
/etc/smrsh/mailman: symbolic link to `/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman'

I have these aliases. I commented out the first two which must have been put
there by the RPM install. I have not tried commenting out the duplicates
lower in the list and leaving the originals in:

# mailman aliases
# mailman: postmaster
# mailman-owner: mailman

# mailman mailing list
mailman: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"

This is the kind of output I get when I tail maillog:

Oct 21 12:27:14 server sendmail[19396]: k9LHRDWj019396:
from=<tony.croes at sbcglob al.net>, size=1676, class=0, nrcpts=1,
msgid=<200610211727.k9LHRDWj019396 at server .ctrcc.com>, proto=SMTP,
daemon=MTA, relay=smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.14 2.198.201]
Oct 21 12:27:15 server MailScanner[11624]: New Batch: Scanning 1
messages, 2280 bytes
Oct 21 12:27:21 server MailScanner[11624]: Virus and Content Scanning:
Starting
Oct 21 12:27:23 server MailScanner[11624]: Uninfected: Delivered 1
messages
Oct 21 12:27:23 server MailScanner[11624]: Batch (1 message) processed
in 7.97 s econds
Oct 21 12:27:24 server sendmail[19580]: k9LHRDWj019396:
to="| /usr/lib/mailman/m ail/mailman post mailman",
ctladdr=<mailman at server.ctrcc.com> (8/0), delay=00:00 :10,
xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=121676, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
 

Thanks for your help.




From tcroes at ctrcc.com  Sat Oct 21 20:08:55 2006
From: tcroes at ctrcc.com (Tony Croes)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 13:08:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help newbie with a common error (smrsh)?
Message-ID: <20061021181536.C69041E4004@bag.python.org>

I have just installed mailman on a RHEL4 system from the RedHat network via
RPM. I can reach the list and admin tools via the web (i.e. cgi working). I
can create lists, add new users and submit posts. However, these posts only
show up in the web archives. I'm not getting them as forwarded email
messages. 

When I look at the archives, I see repeated posts from Cron <mailman at server>
with the following error:

    "/bin/sh: mailman: command not found"

I've tried to follow the faq (3.14 Troubleshooting: No mail going out to
list members), but so far no luck. Here is some additional information:

mailman exists and is executable (tried as root):
[root at server mail]# /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
Usage: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman program [args...]
[root at server mail]# file mailman
mailman: setgid ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1
(SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.2.5, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not
stripped
[root at server mail]# ll mailman
-rwxrwsr-x 1 root mailman 19154 Aug 23 07:22 mailman

"smrsh" symlink:
[root at server mail]# ls /etc/smrsh/
mailman
[root at server mail]# file /etc/smrsh/mailman
/etc/smrsh/mailman: symbolic link to `/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman'

I have these aliases. I commented out the first two which must have been put
there by the RPM install. I have not tried commenting out the duplicates
lower in the list and leaving the originals in:

# mailman aliases
# mailman: postmaster
# mailman-owner: mailman

# mailman mailing list
mailman: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"

This is the kind of output I get when I tail maillog:

Oct 21 12:27:14 server sendmail[19396]: k9LHRDWj019396:
from=<tony.croes at sbcglob al.net>, size=1676, class=0, nrcpts=1,
msgid=<200610211727.k9LHRDWj019396 at server .ctrcc.com>, proto=SMTP,
daemon=MTA, relay=smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.14 2.198.201]
Oct 21 12:27:15 server MailScanner[11624]: New Batch: Scanning 1
messages, 2280 bytes
Oct 21 12:27:21 server MailScanner[11624]: Virus and Content Scanning:
Starting
Oct 21 12:27:23 server MailScanner[11624]: Uninfected: Delivered 1
messages
Oct 21 12:27:23 server MailScanner[11624]: Batch (1 message) processed
in 7.97 s econds
Oct 21 12:27:24 server sendmail[19580]: k9LHRDWj019396:
to="| /usr/lib/mailman/m ail/mailman post mailman",
ctladdr=<mailman at server.ctrcc.com> (8/0), delay=00:00 :10,
xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=121676, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
 

Thanks for your help.




From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 21 20:36:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 11:36:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help newbie with a common error (smrsh)?
In-Reply-To: <20061021181357.117F41E4004@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602006102111360607503fc43154@msapiro>

Tony Croes wrote:

>I have just installed mailman on a RHEL4 system from the RedHat network via
>RPM. I can reach the list and admin tools via the web (i.e. cgi working). I
>can create lists, add new users and submit posts. However, these posts only
>show up in the web archives. I'm not getting them as forwarded email
>messages. 
>
>When I look at the archives, I see repeated posts from Cron <mailman at server>
>with the following error:
>
>    "/bin/sh: mailman: command not found"


This error is due to improper installation of Mailman's crontab and has
nothing to do with your missing emails.

RedHat makes a crontab which they intend to be installed as
/etc/cron.d/mailman. Thus, the crontab contains the userid (mailman)
under which to run the command in field 6 and the command in field 7.
You have installed this as the crontab for the mailman user. User
crontab entries do not have the userid in field 6.


>I've tried to follow the faq (3.14 Troubleshooting: No mail going out to
>list members), but so far no luck. Here is some additional information:
>
>mailman exists and is executable (tried as root):
>[root at server mail]# /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
>Usage: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman program [args...]
>[root at server mail]# file mailman
>mailman: setgid ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1
>(SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.2.5, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not
>stripped
>[root at server mail]# ll mailman
>-rwxrwsr-x 1 root mailman 19154 Aug 23 07:22 mailman
>
>"smrsh" symlink:
>[root at server mail]# ls /etc/smrsh/
>mailman
>[root at server mail]# file /etc/smrsh/mailman
>/etc/smrsh/mailman: symbolic link to `/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman'


All of the above affect delivery of incoming mail to Mailman which is
working.


>I have these aliases. I commented out the first two which must have been put
>there by the RPM install. I have not tried commenting out the duplicates
>lower in the list and leaving the originals in:
>
># mailman aliases
># mailman: postmaster
># mailman-owner: mailman
>
># mailman mailing list
>mailman: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
>mailman-admin: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
>mailman-bounces: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
>mailman-confirm: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
>mailman-join: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
>mailman-leave: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
>mailman-owner: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
>mailman-request: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
>mailman-subscribe: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
>mailman-unsubscribe: "| /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"


Likewise aliases only affect delivery of incoming mail to Mailman which
is working.


>This is the kind of output I get when I tail maillog:
>
>Oct 21 12:27:14 server sendmail[19396]: k9LHRDWj019396:
>from=<tony.croes at sbcglob al.net>, size=1676, class=0, nrcpts=1,
>msgid=<200610211727.k9LHRDWj019396 at server .ctrcc.com>, proto=SMTP,
>daemon=MTA, relay=smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.14 2.198.201]
>Oct 21 12:27:15 server MailScanner[11624]: New Batch: Scanning 1
>messages, 2280 bytes
>Oct 21 12:27:21 server MailScanner[11624]: Virus and Content Scanning:
>Starting
>Oct 21 12:27:23 server MailScanner[11624]: Uninfected: Delivered 1
>messages
>Oct 21 12:27:23 server MailScanner[11624]: Batch (1 message) processed
>in 7.97 s econds
>Oct 21 12:27:24 server sendmail[19580]: k9LHRDWj019396:
>to="| /usr/lib/mailman/m ail/mailman post mailman",
>ctladdr=<mailman at server.ctrcc.com> (8/0), delay=00:00 :10,
>xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=121676, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


Yes, the mail is delivered to Mailman. Its appearance in the archive
proves that. Your problem is why is mail from Mailman not getting out.

Is OutgoingRunner Running?

What's in Mailman's 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' logs?

Are there entries in mailman's qfiles/out/, qfiles/retry/ and/or
qfiles/shunt queue directories?

If there are entries in qfiles/shunt/, what's in Mailman's error log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 21 21:36:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 12:36:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't get mailman and exim4 talking on my
	debian 3.1
In-Reply-To: <20061021172908.GA13888@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610211236480187b09eaf4b@msapiro>

Please include the mailman-user's list in replies.

No individual on the list knows everything.

Individuals make mistakes.

Individuals have other lives that take them away from mailman and/or
email for days or weeks at a time.

The list is a community which can often offer better and/or more timely
response than an individual. At worst, the individual will see your
list post and reply to it anyway.

If nothing else, a coherent thread in the archive can help others long
after the fact.



Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote:
>
>> >> Did you add the line
>> >> 
>> >>         self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1)
>> >> 
>> >> to Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py and restart Mailman and then look in
>> >> Mailman's 'error' log?
>
>I did add that line, but I will check again to make sure it is there
>correctly. 
> 
>> That's why you see the "No such list" errors. Someone has tried to
>> access those lists - in the case of 'test75' via the admin interface,
>> in the case of the others, via perhaps listinfo, private or some other
>> script that doesn't log it's name.
>> 
>> Anyway, the only messages relevant to your issue are "Cannot connect to
>> SMTP server localhost on port smtp". I don't know why there aren't
>> also debug prints from the Python smtplib if the
>> 
>>         self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1)
>> 
>> line was added to SMTPDirect.py per the FAQ. Basically however, this
>> says that in these instances at least, SMTPDirect was unable to
>> connect at all to 'localhost' port 25.
>
>I can only assume that the 'someone' to whom you refer, must be an outside
>entity attempting to email to those lists which are now gone.


Emailing a non-existent list can produse the error log entry

  'post script, list not found: %(listname)s'

But only if there are aliases or something left in the MTA that still
delivers to the list. In your case, Exim won't attempt to deliver to a
non-existent list, and in any case, your error log entries don't look
like the above.

The entries in your log are caused by someone or something (anyone,
anything, including a web crawler) accessing a URL like
http://example.com/mailman/<script>/<list> where <list> doesn't exist.

In one of the three cases, the script was 'admin', because 'admin'
identifies itself in that message. In the other two cases, the message
was the generic "No such list <list>: message which is issued py the
scripts admindb, confirm, edithtml, listinfo, options, private, rmlist
and subscribe.

If you want to know more about what script was invoked and from what
IP, consult your web server log for the times in question.


>If I knew the
>domain of your server, where your lists are hosted, and I attempted to mail
>to "nonexistant_list at mark_sapiro.org" ... is it safe also to assume that
>such email to that nonexistant list would generate a similar type error
>message in your log file?


No, it would be rejected as undeliverable by the incoming MTA (or
perhaps just discarded depending on how my incoming mail is delivered
to Mailman).


>If so, then I understand what you are saying about
>my lists which I removed. 
>
>Now that I know that SMTPDirect won't connect to 'localhost' port 25, how do
>I proceed? I guess I am having difficulty understanding how simply upgrading
>mailman or exim4....when I opted to keep my existing configuration files,
>would so badly hose my Mailman installation as to make it unworkable. 


That does seem unusual, but that's what we're trying to figure out.


>Is it safe to cut back on one's log files, for example with
>/var/log/mailman/error, keeping only the past two weeks of entries? 


I use logrotate to rotate the logs weekly and keep for prior
generations in addition to the current. If you do this, don't forget
to tell logrotate to do 'bin/mailmanctl reopen' after rotating.


>I am including a few other files to help you help me figure this out. 



I have snipped this in case there is anything in it that you don't want
to go to the list.

I think you said that you can successfully 'telnet localhost 25' and
get an appropriate '220' from Exim, and that you successfully ran the
various tests in FAQ 6.14, but that message was off list so I'm not
sure exactly what you said. Did you see the paragraph

<quote>
If the various diagnostic snippets above don't fail, first make sure
you are running them as the 'mailman' user and not as root as this can
make a difference. Also see
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-May/044972.html>
and
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-May/044742.html>
for more complete tests, and if these work, make sure you don't have
different (wrong) settings for SMTPHOST and/or SMTPPORT in mm_cfg.py.
</qoute>

in the FAQ and do the tests in the referenced posts as the mailman user?

In any case, your problem doesn't seem to be the one in FAQ 6.14 as
that is a hard failure, and your's seems more intermittent,
particularly considering your "slow processing" thread, however the
tests in the referenced posts may still be useful.


>Scott
>
>p.s. I am very grateful for your help here. I am sorry I am at times brain
>dead about how to proceed. 


It's OK - we all have blind spots from time to time.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 21 21:43:53 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 12:43:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't get mailman and exim4 talking on my
	debian 3.1
In-Reply-To: <20061021185910.GA17968@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610211243530859f83171f0@msapiro>

Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote:

>Here's a couple lines from /var/log/mailman/error: 
>
>Oct 21 12:32:42 2006 (15692) Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost on port
>smtp
>Oct 21 12:37:23 2006 (17533) Cannot connect to SMTP server 166.70.243.110 on
>port smtp


So presumably you changed SMTPHOST in mm_cfg.py to produce the second
entry?


>I am reading the faq entry at this link:
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp
>
>9) SMTPHOST
>
>   Mailman would accept messages but they wouldn't go anywhere.
>      logs/smtp would just show "All recipients refused: (61, 
>         'Connection refused')". My mailserver is configured to listen
>	    only on its external IP address, no localhost or anything like
>	       that. I had to add to ~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py:
>	             SMTPHOST = '<ip of my mailserver>'
>		        After that Mailman started working perfectly.
>			
>Here's my stupid question....I don't know what the "ip of my mailserver"
>would be...my box running debian 3.1...has address 166.70.243.110 routed to
>it. Would this the the correct 'ip of my mailserver'? 


Probably, assuming it isn't behind a NAT, but if you can successfully
'telnet localhost 25' and get a '220' response from Exim, the above is
not the issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Coach at LifeTrekCoaching.com  Mon Oct 23 01:42:03 2006
From: Coach at LifeTrekCoaching.com (Bob Tschannen-Moran)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:42:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header_filter_rules bug?
Message-ID: <01a501c6f633$ae526c00$6501a8c0@bob>

I use my list as a distribution-only list, holding all posts from me, the
Administrator. My posts are released only after I Accept them, either by
"Tending to Pending Moderator Requests" or by returning the coded
confirmation email (with "Approved: password" in the first line). I use the
latter system to schedule the time when messages will go out (since there is
no way to schedule that time from in the "Tending to Pending Moderator
Requests" section). I long for the day when that functionality will be added
to Mailman.

In the meantime, here is the problem and possible bug:

When I create a header_filter_rule, of any sort, I no longer receive the
automatic coded confirmation email from the Mailman list. The post is held
by the list, I am notified of the post (as the sender), I can Accept the
post by "Tending to Pending Moderator Requests" and it goes out, but I am
not automatically notified of the post as the list Administrator with the
coded confirmation email. As soon as I remove the header-filter-rule, the
coded confirmation emails are back. 

Since I can use the header_filter_rule to weed out spam, I am disappointed
that it also seems to disable one of the functionalities that I have come to
depend upon for my list. Am I doing something wrong? Is this truly a bug? Is
there a work around? Let me know. Thanks.

May you be filled with goodness, peace, and joy.

Bob Tschannen-Moran, Founder & President
LifeTrek Coaching International
121 Will Scarlet Lane
Williamsburg, VA 23185-5043
 
Phone: (757) 345-3452
Fax: (772) 382-3258
Skype: LifeTrek
Web: http://www.LifeTrekCoaching.com



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 23 02:05:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 17:05:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header_filter_rules bug?
In-Reply-To: <01a501c6f633$ae526c00$6501a8c0@bob>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610221705410046b80b0c37@msapiro>

Bob Tschannen-Moran wrote:
>
>When I create a header_filter_rule, of any sort, I no longer receive the
>automatic coded confirmation email from the Mailman list. The post is held
>by the list, I am notified of the post (as the sender), I can Accept the
>post by "Tending to Pending Moderator Requests" and it goes out, but I am
>not automatically notified of the post as the list Administrator with the
>coded confirmation email. As soon as I remove the header-filter-rule, the
>coded confirmation emails are back. 


Are you saying that if you have any header_filter_rules at all, that
posts held for other reasons do not result in admin notices even
though admin_immed_notify is Yes, and that removing
header_filter_rules restores the admin notices without any other
changes?

I can't see how this could be. What Mailman version is this?

I've looked at the current source and header_filter_rules is processed
only in the SpamDetect handler. Nothing else looks at it except the
web Gui to set and display it. If the message is passed by SpamDetect
there should be no difference in admin notification if it is
ultimately held. Even if it is held by header_filter_rules, the admin
should still be notified if admin_immed_notify is Yes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From forsythe at chem.iupui.edu  Mon Oct 23 02:57:03 2006
From: forsythe at chem.iupui.edu (Kelsey Forsythe)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 20:57:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] broken-black hole
Message-ID: <C660F335-36D9-4C34-B202-C565C0A3FF3F@chem.iupui.edu>

I am running Mailman-2.1.4.
I had been running for several years no problem.
We recently had a hard disk failure.
We had to replace with backup drive.
The backup seemed to work fine but now we are receiving complaints from
members of our lists that none of the messages are posted.
I checked and corrected some permission errors and
restarted the qrunner.
In the /var/log/mail.log file messages appear as follows:

> Oct 21 04:43:30 atom postfix/local[22667]: 807C21246E6FA:  
> to=<chemclub at atom.chem
> .iupui.edu>, relay=local, delay=3, status=sent ("|/usr/local/ 
> mailman/mail/mailma
> n post chemclub")

But the list does not seem to post to members.  I've verified via the  
URL that the list is there and members
are also still present.
Mail just seems to go into a hole.

Any suggestions?

Thank,s

Kelsey


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 23 03:38:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:38:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header_filter_rules bug?
In-Reply-To: <01ce01c6f63c$f3783590$6501a8c0@bob>
Message-ID: <PC176020061022183850037560f16149@msapiro>

Please copy replies to the list.

Bob Tschannen-Moran Wrote:

>Well, now that you put it THAT way, I have done more experimenting. When I
>put in either of the following two header_filter_rules (from Spammers):
>
>Received: from [83.93.206.242]
>helo=karin
>
>I do receive the admin notices, as one would expect. It's only when I put in
>the following header-filter-rule
>
>X-EMWD-MailScanner: Not scanned
>
>That the admin notice fails to be sent. Crazy but true. Do you have any
>ideas?


What is the action for that rule?

What happens to the post from you?

Is it possible that post also has the X-EMWD... header?

>PS -- We're using 2.1.9.cp1

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Coach at LifeTrekCoaching.com  Mon Oct 23 03:43:51 2006
From: Coach at LifeTrekCoaching.com (Bob Tschannen-Moran)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:43:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header_filter_rules bug?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610221705410046b80b0c37@msapiro>
Message-ID: <01f301c6f644$b2737d40$6501a8c0@bob>

Well, now that you put it THAT way, I have done more experimenting. When I
put in either of the following two header_filter_rules (from Spammers):

Received: from [83.93.206.242]
helo=karin

I do receive the admin notices, as one would expect. It's only when I put in
the following header-filter-rules

X-EMWD-MailScanner: Not scanned
MailScanner: Not scanned

That the admin notice fails to be sent. Crazy but true. Do you have any
ideas?

We are using Mailman version 2.1.9.cp1

May you be filled with goodness, peace, and joy.
 
Bob Tschannen-Moran, Founder & President
LifeTrek Coaching International
121 Will Scarlet Lane
Williamsburg, VA 23185-5043
 
Phone: (757) 345-3452
Fax: (772) 382-3258
Skype: LifeTrek
Web: http://www.LifeTrekCoaching.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 8:06 PM
To: Bob Tschannen-Moran; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] header_filter_rules bug?

Bob Tschannen-Moran wrote:
>
>When I create a header_filter_rule, of any sort, I no longer receive 
>the automatic coded confirmation email from the Mailman list. The post 
>is held by the list, I am notified of the post (as the sender), I can 
>Accept the post by "Tending to Pending Moderator Requests" and it goes 
>out, but I am not automatically notified of the post as the list 
>Administrator with the coded confirmation email. As soon as I remove 
>the header-filter-rule, the coded confirmation emails are back.


Are you saying that if you have any header_filter_rules at all, that posts
held for other reasons do not result in admin notices even though
admin_immed_notify is Yes, and that removing header_filter_rules restores
the admin notices without any other changes?

I can't see how this could be. What Mailman version is this?

I've looked at the current source and header_filter_rules is processed only
in the SpamDetect handler. Nothing else looks at it except the web Gui to
set and display it. If the message is passed by SpamDetect there should be
no difference in admin notification if it is ultimately held. Even if it is
held by header_filter_rules, the admin should still be notified if
admin_immed_notify is Yes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan





From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 23 03:46:29 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:46:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] broken-black hole
In-Reply-To: <C660F335-36D9-4C34-B202-C565C0A3FF3F@chem.iupui.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602006102218462904062e0f6973@msapiro>

Kelsey Forsythe wrote:

>I checked and corrected some permission errors and
>restarted the qrunner.
>In the /var/log/mail.log file messages appear as follows:
>
>> Oct 21 04:43:30 atom postfix/local[22667]: 807C21246E6FA:  
>> to=<chemclub at atom.chem
>> .iupui.edu>, relay=local, delay=3, status=sent ("|/usr/local/ 
>> mailman/mail/mailma
>> n post chemclub")
>
>But the list does not seem to post to members.  I've verified via the  
>URL that the list is there and members
>are also still present.
>Mail just seems to go into a hole.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>

In particular, check Mailman's log files and the qfiles/*/ directories.
If there are entries in any of the qfiles/*/ directories, in which
one(s).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Coach at LifeTrekCoaching.com  Mon Oct 23 03:48:18 2006
From: Coach at LifeTrekCoaching.com (Bob Tschannen-Moran)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:48:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header_filter_rules bug?
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061022183850037560f16149@msapiro>
Message-ID: <01f401c6f645$51adf890$6501a8c0@bob>

Oops. Sorry, Mark, I did not see your reply at the bottom. Here are the
answers to your questions:

1. The action for that rule is Discard.
2. The post from me is held by the list until I Accept it, then it is sent
on.
3. As the poster, I immediately receive the "Your message to LIST awaits
moderator approval" notice.
4. The post from me has the following header line: 

X-EMWD-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Not scanned:

It does not have the line:

X-EMWD-MailScanner: Not scanned:

(Which is the one I want blocked).

Let me know if you have any ideas.

May you be filled with goodness, peace, and joy.
 
Bob Tschannen-Moran, Founder & President
LifeTrek Coaching International
121 Will Scarlet Lane
Williamsburg, VA 23185-5043
 
Phone: (757) 345-3452
Fax: (772) 382-3258
Skype: LifeTrek
Web: http://www.LifeTrekCoaching.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 9:39 PM
To: Bob Tschannen-Moran
Cc: Mailman Users
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] header_filter_rules bug?

Please copy replies to the list.

Bob Tschannen-Moran Wrote:

>Well, now that you put it THAT way, I have done more experimenting. 
>When I put in either of the following two header_filter_rules (from
Spammers):
>
>Received: from [83.93.206.242]
>helo=karin
>
>I do receive the admin notices, as one would expect. It's only when I 
>put in the following header-filter-rule
>
>X-EMWD-MailScanner: Not scanned
>
>That the admin notice fails to be sent. Crazy but true. Do you have any 
>ideas?


What is the action for that rule?

What happens to the post from you?

Is it possible that post also has the X-EMWD... header?

>PS -- We're using 2.1.9.cp1

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan





From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 23 04:42:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:42:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header_filter_rules bug?
In-Reply-To: <01f401c6f645$51adf890$6501a8c0@bob>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610221942440328b96eafd4@msapiro>

Bob Tschannen-Moran wrote:
>
>1. The action for that rule is Discard.
>2. The post from me is held by the list until I Accept it, then it is sent
>on.
>3. As the poster, I immediately receive the "Your message to LIST awaits
>moderator approval" notice.
>4. The post from me has the following header line: 
>
>X-EMWD-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Not scanned:
>
>It does not have the line:
>
>X-EMWD-MailScanner: Not scanned:
>
>(Which is the one I want blocked).


I can't find a reason for this behavior in the Mailman 2.1.9 base.
There may be some cPanel mod affecting this, but I don't know anything
about that.

Do you have access to the actual Mailman code on your server? If so,
can you send off-list to me the Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py file.
If you can do that, I can try to verify whether or not there is a
cPanel mod that would cause this.

Again, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From contact at imug.com.au  Mon Oct 23 06:25:01 2006
From: contact at imug.com.au (iMug)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:25:01 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in the public HTML pages
Message-ID: <C162813D.A419%contact@imug.com.au>

I have created four Mailman mailing lists associated with my organization's
domain name through our web-hosting provider's cPanel (ie I do not have root
access to the server to try to fix problems). One of these lists returns a
"Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9.cp1" error message page anytime a subscriber
clicks any of the submit buttons on the General List Information page or the
Users Specific Options page. IOW, subscribers cannot alter their settings or
email address.

As administrator, I get this same error message page when I click on the
Submit Changes button on the Edit HTML page for either of these two pages
and my changes are not made.

I don't know whether it's coincidence or cause-and-effect, but I believe
these bug error message pages started to appear after I had been editing the
html of the General List page. *Perhaps* it was after I deleted a large
section of the html code -- the "Subscribing to [list name]" section. But
now I can no longer edit the html to put it back to how it was,  or any
other way.

Is there a way I can fix this problem? If it can only be fixed at the root
level, what specifically do I need to request my web-hosting provider to do
(if they are willing to do this sort of thing)?

My alternative is to close & delete this list and start again, but this
would be very disruptive and I would like to avoid it if possible.

Regards,
Hope Stewart




From rh231 at tid.es  Mon Oct 23 09:58:43 2006
From: rh231 at tid.es (richard)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 09:58:43 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] max_message_size
Message-ID: <007301c6f679$0f6c4f70$a31b5f0a@PC216348133666>

Can anyone suggest anything? 
We are running mailman with exim and cygwin on windows sever 2003.
Problem: all messages are truncated to about 45 Kb, be it body or attachment.
In the administrative interface / general options for the list I have changed the field:

Maximum length in kilobytes (KB) of a message body. Use 0 for no limit.

from 0 to 50000.
Problem persists. Have triple checked all I can. I cannot see the field  max_message_size  anywhere in the mm_cfg if that's where it should be.


From tcroes at ctrcc.com  Mon Oct 23 15:28:49 2006
From: tcroes at ctrcc.com (Tony Croes)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 08:28:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help newbie with a common error (smrsh)?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006102111360607503fc43154@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061023132854.5A1261E4006@bag.python.org>

 Thanks Mark.  Answers and questions below.

	Mark Sapiro wrote:

	>When I look at the archives, I see repeated posts from Cron 
	><mailman at server> with the following error:
	>
	>    "/bin/sh: mailman: command not found"


	This error is due to improper installation of Mailman's crontab and
has nothing to do with your missing emails.

	RedHat makes a crontab which they intend to be installed as
/etc/cron.d/mailman. Thus, the crontab contains the userid (mailman) under
which to run the command in field 6 and the command in field 7.
	You have installed this as the crontab for the mailman user. User
crontab entries do not have the userid in field 6.

I think I have fixed this error.  I checked and found a mailman cron file in
/var/spool/cron (where user based files are stored).  I deleted this file.
I do have the other cron file /etc/cron.d/mailman.  After deleting the user
entry, the previous error has not reappeared.

	Mark Sapiro wrote:

	Yes, the mail is delivered to Mailman. Its appearance in the archive
proves that. Your problem is why is mail from Mailman not getting out.

	Is OutgoingRunner Running?

I think so.  Output from #ps auxww | egrep 'p[y]thon':
mailman   5600  0.0  0.3 11096 3976 ?        Ss   Oct21   0:00
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start
mailman   5601  0.1  0.8 14692 8584 ?        S    Oct21   2:14
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   5602  0.0  0.5 10260 5416 ?        S    Oct21   0:00
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   5603  0.0  0.5 11248 5412 ?        S    Oct21   0:00
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   5604  0.0  0.5 11936 5772 ?        S    Oct21   0:04
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   5605  0.0  0.5 11208 5440 ?        S    Oct21   0:00
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   5606  0.0  0.5 11096 5660 ?        S    Oct21   0:01
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   5607  0.0  0.5 12372 5668 ?        S    Oct21   0:00
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   5608  0.0  0.5 11356 5408 ?        S    Oct21   0:00
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s


	Mark Sapiro wrote:

	What's in Mailman's 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' logs?

	Are there entries in mailman's qfiles/out/, qfiles/retry/ and/or
qfiles/shunt queue directories?

	If there are entries in qfiles/shunt/, what's in Mailman's error
log.

There is not an smtp-failure log.  The smtp and error logs are here:
smtp:
Oct 22 16:01:44 2006 (5606)
<mailman.0.1161550902.5604.mailman at server.ctrcc.com> smtp for 1 recips,
completed in 0.465 seconds
Oct 22 16:01:44 2006 (5606)
<mailman.1.1161550902.5604.mailman at server.ctrcc.com> smtp for 1 recips,
completed in 0.374 seconds
Oct 22 16:02:02 2006 (5606)
<mailman.1.1161550902.5604.mailman at server.ctrcc.com> smtp for 1 recips,
completed in 0.342 seconds

error:
Oct 21 11:52:13 2006 mailmanctl(6580): PID unreadable in:
/var/run/mailman/master-qrunner.pid 
Oct 21 11:52:13 2006 mailmanctl(6580): [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/var/run/mailman/master-qrunner.pid' 
Oct 21 11:52:13 2006 mailmanctl(6580): Is qrunner even running? 

More newbie questions.  Where is ~/qfiles under version 2.1.5?  I have not
been able to find it.  Is this the equivalent:

[root at server mailman]# pwd
/var/spool/mailman
[root at server mailman]# ll
total 60
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman 12288 Oct 22 16:03 archive
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 20 22:53 bounces
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 20 23:14 commands
drwxrws---  2 mail    mailman 20480 Oct 22 16:03 in
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 20 22:53 news
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 22 16:03 out
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 20 22:53 retry
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 20 22:53 shunt
drwxrws---  2 root    mailman  4096 Oct 22 16:01 virgin

All of these directories are empty.

Regards,
Tony Croes




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 23 16:29:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 07:29:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in the public HTML pages
In-Reply-To: <C162813D.A419%contact@imug.com.au>
Message-ID: <PC17602006102307294904212dd89616@msapiro>

iMug wrote:

>I have created four Mailman mailing lists associated with my organization's
>domain name through our web-hosting provider's cPanel (ie I do not have root
>access to the server to try to fix problems).


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.


>One of these lists returns a
>"Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9.cp1" error message page anytime a subscriber
>clicks any of the submit buttons on the General List Information page or the
>Users Specific Options page. IOW, subscribers cannot alter their settings or
>email address.
>
>As administrator, I get this same error message page when I click on the
>Submit Changes button on the Edit HTML page for either of these two pages
>and my changes are not made.
>
>I don't know whether it's coincidence or cause-and-effect, but I believe
>these bug error message pages started to appear after I had been editing the
>html of the General List page. *Perhaps* it was after I deleted a large
>section of the html code -- the "Subscribing to [list name]" section. But
>now I can no longer edit the html to put it back to how it was,  or any
>other way.
>
>Is there a way I can fix this problem? If it can only be fixed at the root
>level, what specifically do I need to request my web-hosting provider to do
>(if they are willing to do this sort of thing)?


They need to look at Mailman's 'error' log and get the error reports
and tracebacks associated with the 'bug' messages. Then if they can't
figure it out on their own, they can post that information here or
with the cPanel resources mentioned in the FAQ article.


>My alternative is to close & delete this list and start again, but this
>would be very disruptive and I would like to avoid it if possible.


And we would like to help you, but we need the information. I think
there may have been similar problems reported on this list before. You
might try searching the list archives for a solution. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.018.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 23 16:38:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 07:38:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] max_message_size
In-Reply-To: <007301c6f679$0f6c4f70$a31b5f0a@PC216348133666>
Message-ID: <PC17602006102307385800312dd89499@msapiro>

richard wrote:

>We are running mailman with exim and cygwin on windows sever 2003.
>Problem: all messages are truncated to about 45 Kb, be it body or attachment.
>In the administrative interface / general options for the list I have changed the field:
>
>Maximum length in kilobytes (KB) of a message body. Use 0 for no limit.
>
>from 0 to 50000.


This will not result in truncation. It will only result in a large
message being held for moderator approval.

You could as a debugging aid set it to say 50 to try and see if the
message is truncated before or after Mailman, but the underlying
truncation is almost certainly occurring in some MTA/MDA outside of
Mailman.
>Problem persists. Have triple checked all I can. I cannot see the field  max_message_size  anywhere in the mm_cfg if that's where it should be.


The Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py setting is DEFAULT_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE, but it
only sets the default for max_message_size for new lists, and this in
turn results in large messages being held, not truncated. Mailman
doesn't intentionally truncate messages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 23 17:11:25 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 08:11:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help newbie with a common error (smrsh)?
In-Reply-To: <200610230755756.SM04908@psmtp.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006102308112509531b4d2ef2@msapiro>

Tony Croes wrote:
>
>	Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>	Yes, the mail is delivered to Mailman. Its appearance in the archive
>proves that. Your problem is why is mail from Mailman not getting out.
>
>	Is OutgoingRunner Running?
>
>I think so.  Output from #ps auxww | egrep 'p[y]thon':
>mailman   5600  0.0  0.3 11096 3976 ?        Ss   Oct21   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start
>mailman   5601  0.1  0.8 14692 8584 ?        S    Oct21   2:14
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   5602  0.0  0.5 10260 5416 ?        S    Oct21   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   5603  0.0  0.5 11248 5412 ?        S    Oct21   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   5604  0.0  0.5 11936 5772 ?        S    Oct21   0:04
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   5605  0.0  0.5 11208 5440 ?        S    Oct21   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   5606  0.0  0.5 11096 5660 ?        S    Oct21   0:01
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   5607  0.0  0.5 12372 5668 ?        S    Oct21   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   5608  0.0  0.5 11356 5408 ?        S    Oct21   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s


Yes. It looks like Outgoing Runner is running.


>	Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>	What's in Mailman's 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' logs?
>
>	Are there entries in mailman's qfiles/out/, qfiles/retry/ and/or
>qfiles/shunt queue directories?
>
>	If there are entries in qfiles/shunt/, what's in Mailman's error
>log.
>
>There is not an smtp-failure log.


This means nothing was ever written to it so it wasn't created yet.


>The smtp and error logs are here:
>smtp:
>Oct 22 16:01:44 2006 (5606)
><mailman.0.1161550902.5604.mailman at server.ctrcc.com> smtp for 1 recips,
>completed in 0.465 seconds
>Oct 22 16:01:44 2006 (5606)
><mailman.1.1161550902.5604.mailman at server.ctrcc.com> smtp for 1 recips,
>completed in 0.374 seconds
>Oct 22 16:02:02 2006 (5606)
><mailman.1.1161550902.5604.mailman at server.ctrcc.com> smtp for 1 recips,
>completed in 0.342 seconds


The above are delivery of Mailman generated messages, not posts. If
they are associated with posts, they may be a message to the poster
that the post was held, a message to <list>-owner at ... that the post
was held and resend of the <list>-owner message to the actual list
owner address.

However, you say the posts ARE in the archive, so they aren't being
held or if they are, they are being approved.


>error:
>Oct 21 11:52:13 2006 mailmanctl(6580): PID unreadable in:
>/var/run/mailman/master-qrunner.pid 
>Oct 21 11:52:13 2006 mailmanctl(6580): [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>'/var/run/mailman/master-qrunner.pid' 
>Oct 21 11:52:13 2006 mailmanctl(6580): Is qrunner even running? 


These are not relevant to your problem.


>More newbie questions.  Where is ~/qfiles under version 2.1.5?  I have not
>been able to find it.  Is this the equivalent:
>
>[root at server mailman]# pwd
>/var/spool/mailman
>[root at server mailman]# ll
>total 60
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman 12288 Oct 22 16:03 archive
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 20 22:53 bounces
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 20 23:14 commands
>drwxrws---  2 mail    mailman 20480 Oct 22 16:03 in
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 20 22:53 news
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 22 16:03 out
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 20 22:53 retry
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 20 22:53 shunt
>drwxrws---  2 root    mailman  4096 Oct 22 16:01 virgin
>
>All of these directories are empty.


This is where the RedHat rpm puts them. If you look in mm_cfg.py, you
will see definitions of QUEUE_DIR, INQUEUE_DIR, OUTQUEUE_DIR,
CMDQUEUE_DIR, BOUNCEQUEUE_DIR, NEWSQUEUE_DIR, ARCHQUEUE_DIR,
SHUNTQUEUE_DIR, VIRGINQUEUE_DIR, BADQUEUE_DIR and RETRYQUEUE_DIR that
define the location.

Anyway, the fact that they are all empty means Mailman has finished
processing the message - it is not queued anywhere for further
processing. It could be 'held', but not if it appeared in the archive.

The implication is the message had no recipients. i.e., the list has no
members eligible for delivery - the list members
- subscribe to the digest,
- have delivery disabled,
- are the poster who doesn't receive her own posts or
- are a direct addressee who doesn't receive dups.

There are a couple of other interesting things in the above. All the
queue directories are 'default size' except 'in' and 'archive' which
are large. This indicates a lot of messages were posted (and in the
'in' queue) before the qrunners (mailmanctl) were started. Thus the
'in' directory grew. Then Mailman (mailmanctl) was started and the
'in' queue was processed and a lot of messages were dumped in the
'archive' queue which also grew, but ArchRunner was running so the
'archive' queue was being processed and didn't grow as big. The 'out'
queue never grew so presumably those messages had no direct recepients.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tcroes at ctrcc.com  Mon Oct 23 18:05:28 2006
From: tcroes at ctrcc.com (Tony Croes)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:05:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help newbie with a common error (smrsh)?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006102308112509531b4d2ef2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061023160532.AA6CD1E4006@bag.python.org>

You nailed it. (doh!)  See comments below. 

Thanks again for your help.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 10:11 AM
To: Tony Croes; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Help newbie with a common error (smrsh)?

Tony Croes wrote:
>
>	Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>	Yes, the mail is delivered to Mailman. Its appearance in the archive

>proves that. Your problem is why is mail from Mailman not getting out.
>
>	Is OutgoingRunner Running?
>
>I think so.  Output from #ps auxww | egrep 'p[y]thon':
>mailman   5600  0.0  0.3 11096 3976 ?        Ss   Oct21   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start
>mailman   5601  0.1  0.8 14692 8584 ?        S    Oct21   2:14
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   5602  0.0  0.5 10260 5416 ?        S    Oct21   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   5603  0.0  0.5 11248 5412 ?        S    Oct21   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   5604  0.0  0.5 11936 5772 ?        S    Oct21   0:04
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   5605  0.0  0.5 11208 5440 ?        S    Oct21   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   5606  0.0  0.5 11096 5660 ?        S    Oct21   0:01
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   5607  0.0  0.5 12372 5668 ?        S    Oct21   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   5608  0.0  0.5 11356 5408 ?        S    Oct21   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 
>-s


Yes. It looks like Outgoing Runner is running.


>	Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>	What's in Mailman's 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' logs?
>
>	Are there entries in mailman's qfiles/out/, qfiles/retry/ and/or 
>qfiles/shunt queue directories?
>
>	If there are entries in qfiles/shunt/, what's in Mailman's error
log.
>
>There is not an smtp-failure log.


This means nothing was ever written to it so it wasn't created yet.


>The smtp and error logs are here:
>smtp:
>Oct 22 16:01:44 2006 (5606)
><mailman.0.1161550902.5604.mailman at server.ctrcc.com> smtp for 1 recips, 
>completed in 0.465 seconds Oct 22 16:01:44 2006 (5606) 
><mailman.1.1161550902.5604.mailman at server.ctrcc.com> smtp for 1 recips, 
>completed in 0.374 seconds Oct 22 16:02:02 2006 (5606) 
><mailman.1.1161550902.5604.mailman at server.ctrcc.com> smtp for 1 recips, 
>completed in 0.342 seconds


The above are delivery of Mailman generated messages, not posts. If they are
associated with posts, they may be a message to the poster that the post was
held, a message to <list>-owner at ... that the post was held and resend of the
<list>-owner message to the actual list owner address.

However, you say the posts ARE in the archive, so they aren't being held or
if they are, they are being approved.

[Tony:]  Posts are in the archive.  They were held, until I went in and
approved them.  I did receive the approval request e-mails.

>error:
>Oct 21 11:52:13 2006 mailmanctl(6580): PID unreadable in:
>/var/run/mailman/master-qrunner.pid
>Oct 21 11:52:13 2006 mailmanctl(6580): [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>'/var/run/mailman/master-qrunner.pid' 
>Oct 21 11:52:13 2006 mailmanctl(6580): Is qrunner even running? 


These are not relevant to your problem.


>More newbie questions.  Where is ~/qfiles under version 2.1.5?  I have not
>been able to find it.  Is this the equivalent:
>
>[root at server mailman]# pwd
>/var/spool/mailman
>[root at server mailman]# ll
>total 60
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman 12288 Oct 22 16:03 archive
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 20 22:53 bounces
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 20 23:14 commands
>drwxrws---  2 mail    mailman 20480 Oct 22 16:03 in
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 20 22:53 news
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 22 16:03 out
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 20 22:53 retry
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 20 22:53 shunt
>drwxrws---  2 root    mailman  4096 Oct 22 16:01 virgin
>
>All of these directories are empty.


This is where the RedHat rpm puts them. If you look in mm_cfg.py, you
will see definitions of QUEUE_DIR, INQUEUE_DIR, OUTQUEUE_DIR,
CMDQUEUE_DIR, BOUNCEQUEUE_DIR, NEWSQUEUE_DIR, ARCHQUEUE_DIR,
SHUNTQUEUE_DIR, VIRGINQUEUE_DIR, BADQUEUE_DIR and RETRYQUEUE_DIR that
define the location.

Anyway, the fact that they are all empty means Mailman has finished
processing the message - it is not queued anywhere for further
processing. It could be 'held', but not if it appeared in the archive.

The implication is the message had no recipients. i.e., the list has no
members eligible for delivery - the list members
- subscribe to the digest,
- have delivery disabled,
- are the poster who doesn't receive her own posts or
- are a direct addressee who doesn't receive dups.

[Tony:]  This is exactly the issue.  1. The poster does not revceive their
own posts.  2. There were no other users in the list.  When approving the
messages I permitted those e-mail addresses to post to the list and assumed
that this also added them to the list.  It does not.  When I looked under
Adminstration|Membership Management, there were no eligible members.
Mailman is doing exactly what I asked it to.

There are a couple of other interesting things in the above. All the
queue directories are 'default size' except 'in' and 'archive' which
are large. This indicates a lot of messages were posted (and in the
'in' queue) before the qrunners (mailmanctl) were started. Thus the
'in' directory grew. Then Mailman (mailmanctl) was started and the
'in' queue was processed and a lot of messages were dumped in the
'archive' queue which also grew, but ArchRunner was running so the
'archive' queue was being processed and didn't grow as big. The 'out'
queue never grew so presumably those messages had no direct recepients.

[Tony:]  That is what happened.  After installing, I sent test messages and
cron was sending error messages (every minute) related to my earlier user
based cron entries.  When I started mailmanctl, these were apparently
cleared - they were immediately posted to the archive.  Since there were no
members in the list, none of the messages were forwarded.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan





From szybalski at gmail.com  Mon Oct 23 19:20:57 2006
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:20:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061018124945092123005e86@Notebook>
References: <804e5c70610181111ib3284e7k7b68aa03f2227c6d@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC176020061018124945092123005e86@Notebook>
Message-ID: <804e5c70610231020j7507b901s49346c50c9adc9df@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/18/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
> >
> >/var/log/mailman/smtp-failure
> >says
> >Oct 18 11:47:06 2006 (29893) delivery to email at email failed with code
> >-1: (110, 'Connection timed out')
> >
> >/var/log/mailman/smtp
> >says:
> >Oct 18 11:47:06 2006 (29893)
> ><804e5c70610161138j444c3757j7e406a9b9ac81a65 at mail.gmail.com> smtp for
> >34 recips, completed in 378.081 seconds
> >
> >when i do
> >>mail my at email.com
> >...etc
> >
> >/var/log/mail.log says:
> >Oct 18 12:01:03 localhost postfix/qmgr[29672]: 2EE1025C0C2:
> >from=<lucas at example.com>, size=317, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
> >Oct 18 12:01:04 localhost postfix/smtp[29961]: 2EE1025C0C2:
> >to=<myadress at site.org>, relay=smtp.sbcglobal.yahoo.com[68.142.229.41],
> >delay=1, status=sent (250 ok 1161194556 qp 85909)
> >Oct 18 12:01:04 localhost postfix/qmgr[29672]: 2EE1025C0C2: removed
>
>
> What's in mail.log for the failed transactions?
It didn't say anything. There was no record of any failure.
>
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>
> (which I just wrote) for further debugging hints.
>
One issue was a domain. I am not sure why it has worked before and one
day it stopped, but to continue on; i still have a problem.

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-May/044742.html
I did following test which showed me that when i use my
SMTPHOST='example.com' i would not connect, which explains the time
out.

I have added my webpage address to /etc/hosts (example.com was not there before)

fixed hosts file looks like:
mycomputer:/home/lucas# cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1 localhost example.com mycomputer

I have tested it by(would be nice to have this test included with
mailman as testmailman.py or something like that):
>su list
>python
>>> import smtplib
>>> SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
>>> SMTPPORT = 0
>>> x = smtplib.SMTP()
>>> x.connect(SMTPHOST, SMTPPORT)
(220, 'mycomp.example.com ESMTP Postfix (Debian/GNU)')
>>> x.close
<bound method SMTP.close of <smtplib.SMTP instance at 0x4021a5ec>>
>>> x.close()
>>> SMTPHOST = 'example.com'
>>> x.connect(SMTPHOST, SMTPPORT)
(220, 'mycomp.example.com ESMTP Postfix (Debian/GNU)')
>>> x.close()
>>> SMTPHOST = 'mycomp'
>>> x.connect(SMTPHOST, SMTPPORT)
(220, 'mycomp.example.com ESMTP Postfix (Debian/GNU)')
>>> x.close()

now it seemd to work for a second, it sent few mails but now:
 cat /var/log/mail.log
 says:
Oct 23 10:55:36 localhost postfix/smtpd[11974]: connect from
localhost[127.0.0.1]
Oct 23 10:55:36 localhost postfix/smtpd[11974]: 3F54C25C0C3:
client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
Oct 23 11:00:36 localhost postfix/smtpd[11974]: timeout after DATA
from localhost[127.0.0.1]
Oct 23 11:00:36 localhost postfix/smtpd[11974]: disconnect from
localhost[127.0.0.1]
Oct 23 11:00:36 localhost postfix/cleanup[11977]: 3F54C25C0C3:
message-id=<20061023155536.3F54C25C0C3 at mycomp.example.com>

I changed the Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py as follows.
    def __connect(self):
        self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
        self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
        self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION
and add a line so it becomes
    def __connect(self):
        self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
        self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1)
        self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
        self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION

cat /var/log/mailman/smtp-fail says:
  Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor, msgid:
<804e5c70610201400r16756b9bm3ec9275c73984168 at mail.gmail.com>
Oct 23 11:00:36 2006 (1497) delivery to email at email.com failed with
code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
Oct 23 11:00:36 2006 (1497) delivery to email at email.com failed with
code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
Oct 23 11:00:36 2006 (1497) delivery to email at email.com failed with
code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
Oct 23 11:00:36 2006 (1497) delivery to email at email.com failed with
code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
Oct 23 11:00:36 2006 (1497) delivery to email at email.com failed with
code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
Oct 23 11:00:36 2006 (1497) delivery to email at email.com failed with
code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
Oct 23 11:00:36 2006 (1497) delivery to email at email.com failed with
code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor

qrunner says:
Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1491) Master watcher caught SIGHUP.  Re-opening
log files.Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1492) ArchRunner qrunner caught
SIGHUP.  Reopening logs.
Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1493) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.
Reopening logs.Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1494) CommandRunner qrunner
caught SIGHUP.  Reopening logs.
Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1495) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.
Reopening logs.
Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1496) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.  Reopening logs.
Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1497) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.
Reopening logs.
Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1498) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.
Reopening logs.Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1499) RetryRunner qrunner caught
SIGHUP.  Reopening logs.

What could be causing the problem?


---
Side note:
is file permission like this normal?
/var/lib/mailman/bin
py files are in group list
but pyo or pyc are in group root

-rwxr-xr-x  1 root list  1499 2006-09-20 07:18 convert.py
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  1148 2006-10-18 10:44 convert.pyc
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  1148 2006-10-18 10:44 convert.pyo
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root list  3238 2006-09-20 07:18 discard
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root list  4399 2006-09-20 07:18 dumpdb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root list  4951 2006-09-20 07:18 find_member
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root list  2633 2006-09-20 07:18 fix_url.py
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  2491 2006-10-18 10:44 fix_url.pyc
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  2491 2006-10-18 10:44 fix_url.pyo


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 23 21:43:04 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:43:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70610231020j7507b901s49346c50c9adc9df@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006102312430403905ff8f08a@msapiro>

Lukasz Szybalski wrote:

>One issue was a domain. I am not sure why it has worked before and one
>day it stopped, but to continue on; i still have a problem.
>
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-May/044742.html
>I did following test which showed me that when i use my
>SMTPHOST='example.com' i would not connect, which explains the time
>out.


Which is why the default SMTPHOST is 'localhost'.


>I have tested it by(would be nice to have this test included with
>mailman as testmailman.py or something like that):
>>su list
>>python
>>>> import smtplib
>>>> SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
>>>> SMTPPORT = 0
>>>> x = smtplib.SMTP()
>>>> x.connect(SMTPHOST, SMTPPORT)
>(220, 'mycomp.example.com ESMTP Postfix (Debian/GNU)')
>>>> x.close
><bound method SMTP.close of <smtplib.SMTP instance at 0x4021a5ec>>
>>>> x.close()
>>>> SMTPHOST = 'example.com'
>>>> x.connect(SMTPHOST, SMTPPORT)
>(220, 'mycomp.example.com ESMTP Postfix (Debian/GNU)')
>>>> x.close()
>>>> SMTPHOST = 'mycomp'
>>>> x.connect(SMTPHOST, SMTPPORT)
>(220, 'mycomp.example.com ESMTP Postfix (Debian/GNU)')
>>>> x.close()
>
>now it seemd to work for a second, it sent few mails but now:
> cat /var/log/mail.log
> says:
>Oct 23 10:55:36 localhost postfix/smtpd[11974]: connect from
>localhost[127.0.0.1]
>Oct 23 10:55:36 localhost postfix/smtpd[11974]: 3F54C25C0C3:
>client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
>Oct 23 11:00:36 localhost postfix/smtpd[11974]: timeout after DATA
>from localhost[127.0.0.1]
>Oct 23 11:00:36 localhost postfix/smtpd[11974]: disconnect from
>localhost[127.0.0.1]
>Oct 23 11:00:36 localhost postfix/cleanup[11977]: 3F54C25C0C3:
>message-id=<20061023155536.3F54C25C0C3 at mycomp.example.com>
>
>I changed the Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py as follows.
>    def __connect(self):
>        self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
>        self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
>        self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION
>and add a line so it becomes
>    def __connect(self):
>        self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
>        self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1)
>        self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
>        self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION
>
>cat /var/log/mailman/smtp-fail says:
>  Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor, msgid:
><804e5c70610201400r16756b9bm3ec9275c73984168 at mail.gmail.com>
>Oct 23 11:00:36 2006 (1497) delivery to email at email.com failed with
>code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
>Oct 23 11:00:36 2006 (1497) delivery to email at email.com failed with
>code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
>Oct 23 11:00:36 2006 (1497) delivery to email at email.com failed with
>code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
>Oct 23 11:00:36 2006 (1497) delivery to email at email.com failed with
>code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
>Oct 23 11:00:36 2006 (1497) delivery to email at email.com failed with
>code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
>Oct 23 11:00:36 2006 (1497) delivery to email at email.com failed with
>code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
>Oct 23 11:00:36 2006 (1497) delivery to email at email.com failed with
>code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor


The above patch puts additional debugging info in Mailman's 'error'
log. If you aren't seeing this, see below.


>qrunner says:
>Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1491) Master watcher caught SIGHUP.  Re-opening
>log files.Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1492) ArchRunner qrunner caught
>SIGHUP.  Reopening logs.
>Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1493) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.
>Reopening logs.Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1494) CommandRunner qrunner
>caught SIGHUP.  Reopening logs.
>Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1495) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.
>Reopening logs.
>Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1496) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.  Reopening logs.
>Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1497) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.
>Reopening logs.
>Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1498) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.
>Reopening logs.Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1499) RetryRunner qrunner caught
>SIGHUP.  Reopening logs.



This indicates you did 'bin/mailmanctl reopen' (or sent mailmanctl a
SIGHUP). You need to do 'bin/mailmanctl reopen' (or send mailmanctl a
SIGINT) in order to reload the patched SMTPDirect.py module.


>What could be causing the problem?
>
>
>---
>Side note:
>is file permission like this normal?
>/var/lib/mailman/bin
>py files are in group list
>but pyo or pyc are in group root
>
>-rwxr-xr-x  1 root list  1499 2006-09-20 07:18 convert.py
>-rw-r--r--  1 root root  1148 2006-10-18 10:44 convert.pyc
>-rw-r--r--  1 root root  1148 2006-10-18 10:44 convert.pyo
>-rwxr-xr-x  1 root list  3238 2006-09-20 07:18 discard
>-rwxr-xr-x  1 root list  4399 2006-09-20 07:18 dumpdb
>-rwxr-xr-x  1 root list  4951 2006-09-20 07:18 find_member
>-rwxr-xr-x  1 root list  2633 2006-09-20 07:18 fix_url.py
>-rw-r--r--  1 root root  2491 2006-10-18 10:44 fix_url.pyc
>-rw-r--r--  1 root root  2491 2006-10-18 10:44 fix_url.pyo
>------------------------------------------------------


This is normal. The various discard, dumpdb, etc files are the command
line scripts and are normally installed with the owner/group and
permissions as above (assuming you ran the install as root).
convert.py and fix_url.py are 'withlist' scripts designed to be
imported by 'bin/withlist -r'. only the .py file is normally
installed. The .pyc (and .pyo if any) files are created by Python when
withlist imports the module. They will normally have the owner:group
of whoever ran the withlist command that imported them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From matt at mail.netera.ca  Tue Oct 24 00:34:13 2006
From: matt at mail.netera.ca (Matthew Clarkson)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:34:13 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail keeps looping back to list due to filter rule
Message-ID: <DF1A4110-70CD-4C63-BDFC-201313241C4B@mail.netera.ca>

My mailing lists have been running fine on our mailman 2.1.7 server  
for the last year, however, I just implemented a filter for spam on  
one of our public lists to catch anything that spamassassin marks  
with a ***SPAM*** subject.  The filter rule I imposed on this list is

subject: .*SPAM.*

however, now it loops mail back to the list that match this filter  
rule, locking the list up (I get stale locks in the locks/  
directory).  The only way to recover from the endless loops is by  
removing the stale locks and then discarding all .pck's to the list  
with the discard command (otherwise, the web interface gets locked up  
due to too many messages).

Here is the first bit of the moderator request email I get notifying  
me of pending requests to be dealt with (list name replaced by mylist).

------------------------------------------------

Pending posts:
From: theoeustacia at enterfree.it on Fri Oct 20 22:54:04 2006
Subject: ***SPAM*** Sweet
Cause: The message headers matched a filter rule

From: mylist-owner at mailman.netera.ca on Fri Oct 20 22:54:08 2006
Subject: mylist post from theoeustacia at enterfree.it requires approval
Cause: The message headers matched a filter rule

From: mylist-owner at mailman.netera.ca on Fri Oct 20 22:54:16 2006
Subject: mylist post from mylist-owner at mailman.netera.ca requires  
approval
Cause: The message headers matched a filter rule

From: mylist-owner at mailman.netera.ca on Fri Oct 20 22:54:20 2006
Subject: mylist post from mylist-owner at mailman.netera.ca requires  
approval
Cause: The message headers matched a filter rule

...
...
...

------------------------------------------------

Does anyone know what my be causing this, or where I can fix this?   
it seems as though the mylist-owner at ... address is looping it right  
back to the original address, of which it gives "Cause: The message  
headers matched a filter rule", is there an easy way around this?   
since I know this must be common practice to filter via spam headers.

Thanks for any help.

--
Matthew Clarkson
Netera Alliance


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Tue Oct 24 01:15:11 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 08:15:11 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail keeps looping back to list due to filter
 rule
In-Reply-To: <DF1A4110-70CD-4C63-BDFC-201313241C4B@mail.netera.ca>
References: <DF1A4110-70CD-4C63-BDFC-201313241C4B@mail.netera.ca>
Message-ID: <453D4CFF.8040409@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Matthew Clarkson wrote:
> My mailing lists have been running fine on our mailman 2.1.7 server  
> for the last year, however, I just implemented a filter for spam on  
> one of our public lists to catch anything that spamassassin marks  
> with a ***SPAM*** subject.  The filter rule I imposed on this list is
> 
> subject: .*SPAM.*
> 

This was fixed in 2.1.8 and now 2.1.9 is out.  Please upgrade.

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From chatty at flock.com  Tue Oct 24 01:22:07 2006
From: chatty at flock.com (Christopher Hatty)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:22:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin Integration Question
Message-ID: <005e01c6f6fa$0ef2ae00$fe02010a@onyx>

I've followed the instructions at this site:
http://www.jamesh.id.au/articles/mailman-spamassassin/
 
It works wonderfully, with one caveat.
 
If a message is detected as spam, it is sent to the moderation queue, even
if that message would otherwise have been discarded. 
 
Has anyone else run into this and managed to find a workaround? 
 
At present, my plan is to simply use a custom global pipeline for each list.
 
Thanks
Christopher


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Oct 24 02:48:09 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 19:48:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin Integration Question
In-Reply-To: <005e01c6f6fa$0ef2ae00$fe02010a@onyx>
References: <005e01c6f6fa$0ef2ae00$fe02010a@onyx>
Message-ID: <p06240501c16312387728@[10.0.1.11]>

At 4:22 PM -0700 10/23/06, Christopher Hatty wrote:

>  I've followed the instructions at this site:
>  http://www.jamesh.id.au/articles/mailman-spamassassin/

Personally, I am strongly opposed to integrating these sorts of 
things into Mailman itself.  This should be done before the message 
ever gets to Mailman, so that Mailman never even sees most of the 
spam, and only has to hold for moderation the stuff that you're not 
sure about.

Basically, once you've accepted the spam, you're dead meat.  By that 
point, you've already lost the war.  You have to be able to detect 
and eliminate spam before your server ever gets to the point where it 
could potentially accept the message.  That means these kinds of 
checks need to be done interactively, and these kinds of tools to 
perform these checks need to be integrated into the MTA -- not 
Mailman.

>  If a message is detected as spam, it is sent to the moderation queue, even
>  if that message would otherwise have been discarded.
>
>  Has anyone else run into this and managed to find a workaround?

IIRC, Mailman 2.1.6 brought in a new feature whereby you could cause 
rules to fire that would result in messages being rejected or 
discarded before the message was checked to see if it was sent by a 
member, which would trigger the other typical rules that would result 
in a message being held for moderation.

But 2.1.6 had some security holes, and there were other problems with 
2.1.7 and 2.1.8, so 2.1.9 is now out.  Try that version, and if you 
can't get that to work, let us know what problems you're having and 
maybe we can help.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 24 03:11:55 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:11:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin Integration Question
In-Reply-To: <005e01c6f6fa$0ef2ae00$fe02010a@onyx>
Message-ID: <PC17602006102318115505154e48589a@msapiro>

Christopher Hatty wrote:

>I've followed the instructions at this site:
>http://www.jamesh.id.au/articles/mailman-spamassassin/
> 
>It works wonderfully, with one caveat.
> 
>If a message is detected as spam, it is sent to the moderation queue, even
>if that message would otherwise have been discarded. 



According to the web site you reference, the SpamAssassin.py handler
recognizes the following mm_cfg.py settings:

SPAMASSASSIN_HOST
    The host spamd is running on. A string in hostname:port format.
SPAMASSASSIN_DISCARD_SCORE
    If a message receives a score above this limit, the message will be
discarded without moderation. The default value for this variable is
10.
SPAMASSASSIN_HOLD_SCORE
    If a message receives a score above this limit, the message will be
held for moderation. The default value for this variable is 5.
SPAMASSASSIN_MEMBER_BONUS
    If the message was sent by a member of the list, an adjustment can
be performed on the score. This makes it less likely that a message
claiming to come from a list member will be held for moderation. The
default value for this variable is 2.

Are you saying that messages with SpamAssassin score greater than
SPAMASSASSIN_DISCARD_SCORE are being held and not discarded, or just
that messages with SpamAssassin score between SPAMASSASSIN_HOLD_SCORE
and SPAMASSASSIN_DISCARD_SCORE that would be discarded for other
reasons are held instead?

If the latter, as you recognize ...

>Has anyone else run into this and managed to find a workaround? 
> 
>At present, my plan is to simply use a custom global pipeline for each list.


You can control the order of tests by the order of the pipeline. If you
want the SpamAssassin tests and actions to be done after those of
Moderate and Hold, just put SpamAssassin after Hold in
GLOBAL_PIPELINE. There's no need to have a per-list pipeline. Instead
of putting SpamAssassin between SpamDetect and Approve by putting

GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')

in mm_cfg.py, put it between Hold and MimeDel with

GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(GLOBAL_PIPELINE.index('MimeDel'), 'SpamAssassin')

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.067.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From szybalski at gmail.com  Tue Oct 24 04:57:13 2006
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:57:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006102312430403905ff8f08a@msapiro>
References: <804e5c70610231020j7507b901s49346c50c9adc9df@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602006102312430403905ff8f08a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <804e5c70610231957k2bbaf78dob186868cccc3bbd0@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/23/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
>
> >One issue was a domain. I am not sure why it has worked before and one
> >day it stopped, but to continue on; i still have a problem.
> >
> >http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-May/044742.html
> >I did following test which showed me that when i use my
> >SMTPHOST='example.com' i would not connect, which explains the time
> >out.
>
>
> Which is why the default SMTPHOST is 'localhost'.
>
>
> >I have tested it by(would be nice to have this test included with
> >mailman as testmailman.py or something like that):
> >>su list
> >>python
> >>>> import smtplib
> >>>> SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
> >>>> SMTPPORT = 0
> >>>> x = smtplib.SMTP()
> >>>> x.connect(SMTPHOST, SMTPPORT)
> >(220, 'mycomp.example.com ESMTP Postfix (Debian/GNU)')
> >>>> x.close
> ><bound method SMTP.close of <smtplib.SMTP instance at 0x4021a5ec>>
> >>>> x.close()
> >>>> SMTPHOST = 'example.com'
> >>>> x.connect(SMTPHOST, SMTPPORT)
> >(220, 'mycomp.example.com ESMTP Postfix (Debian/GNU)')
> >>>> x.close()
> >>>> SMTPHOST = 'mycomp'
> >>>> x.connect(SMTPHOST, SMTPPORT)
> >(220, 'mycomp.example.com ESMTP Postfix (Debian/GNU)')
> >>>> x.close()
> >
> >now it seemd to work for a second, it sent few mails but now:
> > cat /var/log/mail.log
> > says:
> >Oct 23 10:55:36 localhost postfix/smtpd[11974]: connect from
> >localhost[127.0.0.1]
> >Oct 23 10:55:36 localhost postfix/smtpd[11974]: 3F54C25C0C3:
> >client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
> >Oct 23 11:00:36 localhost postfix/smtpd[11974]: timeout after DATA
> >from localhost[127.0.0.1]
> >Oct 23 11:00:36 localhost postfix/smtpd[11974]: disconnect from
> >localhost[127.0.0.1]
> >Oct 23 11:00:36 localhost postfix/cleanup[11977]: 3F54C25C0C3:
> >message-id=<20061023155536.3F54C25C0C3 at mycomp.example.com>
> >
> >I changed the Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py as follows.
> >    def __connect(self):
> >        self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
> >        self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
> >        self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION
> >and add a line so it becomes
> >    def __connect(self):
> >        self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
> >        self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1)
> >        self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
> >        self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION
> >
> >cat /var/log/mailman/smtp-fail says:
> >  Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor, msgid:
> ><804e5c70610201400r16756b9bm3ec9275c73984168 at mail.gmail.com>
> >Oct 23 11:00:36 2006 (1497) delivery to email at email.com failed with
> >code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
> >Oct 23 11:00:36 2006 (1497) delivery to email at email.com failed with
> >code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
> >Oct 23 11:00:36 2006 (1497) delivery to email at email.com failed with
> >code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
> >Oct 23 11:00:36 2006 (1497) delivery to email at email.com failed with
> >code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
> >Oct 23 11:00:36 2006 (1497) delivery to email at email.com failed with
> >code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
> >Oct 23 11:00:36 2006 (1497) delivery to email at email.com failed with
> >code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
> >Oct 23 11:00:36 2006 (1497) delivery to email at email.com failed with
> >code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
>
>
> The above patch puts additional debugging info in Mailman's 'error'
> log. If you aren't seeing this, see below.
>
>
> >qrunner says:
> >Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1491) Master watcher caught SIGHUP.  Re-opening
> >log files.Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1492) ArchRunner qrunner caught
> >SIGHUP.  Reopening logs.
> >Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1493) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.
> >Reopening logs.Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1494) CommandRunner qrunner
> >caught SIGHUP.  Reopening logs.
> >Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1495) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.
> >Reopening logs.
> >Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1496) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.  Reopening logs.
> >Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1497) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.
> >Reopening logs.
> >Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1498) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.
> >Reopening logs.Oct 23 06:25:35 2006 (1499) RetryRunner qrunner caught
> >SIGHUP.  Reopening logs.
>
>
>
> This indicates you did 'bin/mailmanctl reopen' (or sent mailmanctl a
> SIGHUP). You need to do 'bin/mailmanctl reopen' (or send mailmanctl a
> SIGINT) in order to reload the patched SMTPDirect.py module.
>
>
> >What could be causing the problem?
> >
> >
> >---
> >Side note:
> >is file permission like this normal?
> >/var/lib/mailman/bin
> >py files are in group list
> >but pyo or pyc are in group root
> >
> >-rwxr-xr-x  1 root list  1499 2006-09-20 07:18 convert.py
> >-rw-r--r--  1 root root  1148 2006-10-18 10:44 convert.pyc
> >-rw-r--r--  1 root root  1148 2006-10-18 10:44 convert.pyo
> >-rwxr-xr-x  1 root list  3238 2006-09-20 07:18 discard
> >-rwxr-xr-x  1 root list  4399 2006-09-20 07:18 dumpdb
> >-rwxr-xr-x  1 root list  4951 2006-09-20 07:18 find_member
> >-rwxr-xr-x  1 root list  2633 2006-09-20 07:18 fix_url.py
> >-rw-r--r--  1 root root  2491 2006-10-18 10:44 fix_url.pyc
> >-rw-r--r--  1 root root  2491 2006-10-18 10:44 fix_url.pyo
> >------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> This is normal. The various discard, dumpdb, etc files are the command
> line scripts and are normally installed with the owner/group and
> permissions as above (assuming you ran the install as root).
> convert.py and fix_url.py are 'withlist' scripts designed to be
> imported by 'bin/withlist -r'. only the .py file is normally
> installed. The .pyc (and .pyo if any) files are created by Python when
> withlist imports the module. They will normally have the owner:group
> of whoever ran the withlist command that imported them.


Why do i get this error in smtp-failure?
Any ideas?

Oct 23 20:30:31 2006 (13510) delivery to email at email.com failed with
code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
Oct 23 20:30:31 2006 (13510) delivery to email at email.com failed with
code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
Oct 23 20:30:31 2006 (13510) Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file
descriptor, msgid:
<mailman.1.1161642951.1495.listname at lists.example.com>
Oct 23 20:33:30 2006 (13510) Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file
descriptor, msgid:
<mailman.1.1161643730.13036.lists at lists.example.com>

mail.info says:
Oct 23 20:25:31 localhost postfix/smtpd[13513]: connect from
localhost[127.0.0.1]
Oct 23 20:25:31 localhost postfix/smtpd[13513]: 0CA9A25C0C3:
client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
Oct 23 20:30:31 localhost postfix/smtpd[13513]: timeout after DATA
from localhost[127.0.0.1]
Oct 23 20:30:31 localhost postfix/smtpd[13513]: disconnect from
localhost[127.0.0.1]
Oct 23 20:30:31 localhost postfix/cleanup[13514]: 0CA9A25C0C3:
message-id=<20061024012531.0CA9A25C0C3 at mycomp.example.com>


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 24 06:18:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:18:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70610231957k2bbaf78dob186868cccc3bbd0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061023211848079641e73aec@msapiro>

Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
>
>Why do i get this error in smtp-failure?
>Any ideas?
>
>Oct 23 20:30:31 2006 (13510) delivery to email at email.com failed with
>code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
>Oct 23 20:30:31 2006 (13510) delivery to email at email.com failed with
>code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
>Oct 23 20:30:31 2006 (13510) Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file
>descriptor, msgid:
><mailman.1.1161642951.1495.listname at lists.example.com>
>Oct 23 20:33:30 2006 (13510) Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file
>descriptor, msgid:
><mailman.1.1161643730.13036.lists at lists.example.com>
>
>mail.info says:
>Oct 23 20:25:31 localhost postfix/smtpd[13513]: connect from
>localhost[127.0.0.1]
>Oct 23 20:25:31 localhost postfix/smtpd[13513]: 0CA9A25C0C3:
>client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
>Oct 23 20:30:31 localhost postfix/smtpd[13513]: timeout after DATA
>from localhost[127.0.0.1]
>Oct 23 20:30:31 localhost postfix/smtpd[13513]: disconnect from
>localhost[127.0.0.1]
>Oct 23 20:30:31 localhost postfix/cleanup[13514]: 0CA9A25C0C3:
>message-id=<20061024012531.0CA9A25C0C3 at mycomp.example.com>



You say you changed SMTPDirect.py.

> >I changed the Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py as follows.
> >    def __connect(self):
> >        self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
> >        self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
> >        self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION
> >and add a line so it becomes
> >    def __connect(self):
> >        self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
> >        self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1)
> >        self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
> >        self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION

Then be sure you have done

bin/mailmanctl restart

and report what is in Mailman's 'error' log with the same timestamps as
the 'smtp-failure' log entries.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From szybalski at gmail.com  Tue Oct 24 16:38:50 2006
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:38:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061023211848079641e73aec@msapiro>
References: <804e5c70610231957k2bbaf78dob186868cccc3bbd0@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC176020061023211848079641e73aec@msapiro>
Message-ID: <804e5c70610240738p103469a5lae9fe0274c20ba0e@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/23/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
> >
> >Why do i get this error in smtp-failure?
> >Any ideas?
> >
> >Oct 23 20:30:31 2006 (13510) delivery to email at email.com failed with
> >code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
> >Oct 23 20:30:31 2006 (13510) delivery to email at email.com failed with
> >code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
> >Oct 23 20:30:31 2006 (13510) Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file
> >descriptor, msgid:
> ><mailman.1.1161642951.1495.listname at lists.example.com>
> >Oct 23 20:33:30 2006 (13510) Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file
> >descriptor, msgid:
> ><mailman.1.1161643730.13036.lists at lists.example.com>
> >
> >mail.info says:
> >Oct 23 20:25:31 localhost postfix/smtpd[13513]: connect from
> >localhost[127.0.0.1]
> >Oct 23 20:25:31 localhost postfix/smtpd[13513]: 0CA9A25C0C3:
> >client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
> >Oct 23 20:30:31 localhost postfix/smtpd[13513]: timeout after DATA
> >from localhost[127.0.0.1]
> >Oct 23 20:30:31 localhost postfix/smtpd[13513]: disconnect from
> >localhost[127.0.0.1]
> >Oct 23 20:30:31 localhost postfix/cleanup[13514]: 0CA9A25C0C3:
> >message-id=<20061024012531.0CA9A25C0C3 at mycomp.example.com>
>
>
>
> You say you changed SMTPDirect.py.
>
> > >I changed the Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py as follows.
> > >    def __connect(self):
> > >        self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
> > >        self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
> > >        self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION
> > >and add a line so it becomes
> > >    def __connect(self):
> > >        self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
> > >        self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1)
> > >        self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
> > >        self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION
>
> Then be sure you have done
>
> bin/mailmanctl restart
>
> and report what is in Mailman's 'error' log with the same timestamps as
> the 'smtp-failure' log entries.


mailman has been restarted many times...and here are the outputs:
It seems as some messages go through after few hours. I created test
mailing list subscribed users, and 4 hours later subscription emal
went through...but here is the errior with the same time stamps.

smtp-failure:
Oct 24 08:15:37 2006 (18268) delivery to
mylist-owner at lists.example.com failed with code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file
descriptor
Oct 24 08:15:37 2006 (18268) Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file
descriptor, msgid:
<804e5c70610201400r16756b9bm3ec9275c73984168 at mail.gmail.com>

mail.log:
Oct 24 08:10:37 localhost postfix/smtpd[19990]: connect from
localhost[127.0.0.1]
Oct 24 08:10:37 localhost postfix/smtpd[19990]: 25AE325C0C3:
client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
Oct 24 08:15:37 localhost postfix/smtpd[19990]: timeout after DATA
from localhost[127.0.0.1]
Oct 24 08:15:37 localhost postfix/smtpd[19990]: disconnect from
localhost[127.0.0.1]
Oct 24 08:15:37 localhost postfix/cleanup[19993]: 25AE325C0C3:
message-id=<20061024131037.25AE325C0C3 at mycomp.example.com>
Oct 24 08:15:37 localhost postfix/smtpd[19990]: connect from
localhost[127.0.0.1]
Oct 24 08:15:37 localhost postfix/smtpd[19990]: 768C925C0C3:
client=localhost[127.0.0.1]

mail.info:
Oct 24 08:15:37 localhost postfix/smtpd[19990]: timeout after DATA
from localhost[127.0.0.1]
Oct 24 08:15:37 localhost postfix/smtpd[19990]: disconnect from
localhost[127.0.0.1]
Oct 24 08:15:37 localhost postfix/cleanup[19993]: 25AE325C0C3:
message-id=<20061024131037.25AE325C0C3 at mycomp.example.com>
Oct 24 08:15:37 localhost postfix/smtpd[19990]: connect from
localhost[127.0.0.1]
Oct 24 08:15:37 localhost postfix/smtpd[19990]: 768C925C0C3:
client=localhost[127.0.0.1]


Thanks,
Lucas


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 24 16:56:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 07:56:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70610240738p103469a5lae9fe0274c20ba0e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061024075616073456569cce@msapiro>

Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
>
>mailman has been restarted many times...and here are the outputs:
>It seems as some messages go through after few hours. I created test
>mailing list subscribed users, and 4 hours later subscription emal
>went through...but here is the errior with the same time stamps.
>
>smtp-failure:
>Oct 24 08:15:37 2006 (18268) delivery to
>mylist-owner at lists.example.com failed with code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file
>descriptor
>Oct 24 08:15:37 2006 (18268) Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file
>descriptor, msgid:
><804e5c70610201400r16756b9bm3ec9275c73984168 at mail.gmail.com>

Once again - in the same directory as you find the 'smtp-failure' log
above, there is a log file named 'error'. That is where the debug
output from Python's smtplib is found. What is in that log?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From szybalski at gmail.com  Tue Oct 24 17:02:20 2006
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:02:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061024075616073456569cce@msapiro>
References: <804e5c70610240738p103469a5lae9fe0274c20ba0e@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC176020061024075616073456569cce@msapiro>
Message-ID: <804e5c70610240802u58271baam44ee8b2460aba802@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/24/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
> >
> >mailman has been restarted many times...and here are the outputs:
> >It seems as some messages go through after few hours. I created test
> >mailing list subscribed users, and 4 hours later subscription emal
> >went through...but here is the errior with the same time stamps.
> >
> >smtp-failure:
> >Oct 24 08:15:37 2006 (18268) delivery to
> >mylist-owner at lists.example.com failed with code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file
> >descriptor
> >Oct 24 08:15:37 2006 (18268) Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file
> >descriptor, msgid:
> ><804e5c70610201400r16756b9bm3ec9275c73984168 at mail.gmail.com>
>
> Once again - in the same directory as you find the 'smtp-failure' log
> above, there is a log file named 'error'. That is where the debug
> output from Python's smtplib is found. What is in that log?

error: (doesn't have much there)

Oct 23 20:50:42 2006 mailmanctl(13642): The master qrunner lock could
not be acquired because it appears as if another
master qrunner is already running.
I was restarting mailman..

Oct 23 20:50:42 2006 mailmanctl(13642):
Oct 23 20:59:39 2006 (13656) Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost
on port smtp
Oct 24 08:36:36 2006 (18268) Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost
on port smtp
not sure about these 2 other than, my postfix is working since i can
send and receive emails. I assume it had to be somewhat connected with
the timeout in previous error.

Lucas


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 24 17:26:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 08:26:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70610240802u58271baam44ee8b2460aba802@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061024082656081249907244@msapiro>

Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
>
>error: (doesn't have much there)
>
>Oct 23 20:50:42 2006 mailmanctl(13642): The master qrunner lock could
>not be acquired because it appears as if another
>master qrunner is already running.
>I was restarting mailman..


'restart' won't issue this message. This message comes from doing
'mailmanctl start' without first doing 'mailmanctl stop' and waithing
for everything to stop.


>Oct 23 20:50:42 2006 mailmanctl(13642):
>Oct 23 20:59:39 2006 (13656) Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost
>on port smtp
>Oct 24 08:36:36 2006 (18268) Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost
>on port smtp
>not sure about these 2 other than, my postfix is working since i can
>send and receive emails. I assume it had to be somewhat connected with
>the timeout in previous error.


This is an exception reported by OutgoingRunner when SMTPDirect
encounters an uncaught socket.error exception.

There is no debug output from smtplib.

Which Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py did you patch? is there a
SMTPDirect.pyc in the same directory with a timestamp later than
SMTPDirect.py? The timestamp on SMTPDirect.pyc should be the time of
the first 'mailmanctl restart' following the change to SMTPDirect.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From robertj at linux4free.com  Tue Oct 24 17:28:21 2006
From: robertj at linux4free.com (Rob Jackson)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:28:21 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newgroup gatway and specific user rights
Message-ID: <200610241528.k9OFSI7e014502@resources.rootsweb.com>

I have several newgroup gateways set up, but I need to tweak it a little.  I
have a two sets of users.  One set is LIST ONLY, and the other set is LIST
and NEWSGROUP.  Is there a way I can set this up in mailman?
 
-Rob
 


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 24 17:52:19 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 08:52:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70610231957k2bbaf78dob186868cccc3bbd0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006102408521905150c229316@msapiro>

Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
>
>Why do i get this error in smtp-failure?
>Any ideas?
>
>Oct 23 20:30:31 2006 (13510) delivery to email at email.com failed with
>code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
>Oct 23 20:30:31 2006 (13510) delivery to email at email.com failed with
>code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
>Oct 23 20:30:31 2006 (13510) Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file
>descriptor, msgid:
><mailman.1.1161642951.1495.listname at lists.example.com>
>Oct 23 20:33:30 2006 (13510) Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file
>descriptor, msgid:
><mailman.1.1161643730.13036.lists at lists.example.com>
>
>mail.info says:
>Oct 23 20:25:31 localhost postfix/smtpd[13513]: connect from
>localhost[127.0.0.1]
>Oct 23 20:25:31 localhost postfix/smtpd[13513]: 0CA9A25C0C3:
>client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
>Oct 23 20:30:31 localhost postfix/smtpd[13513]: timeout after DATA
>from localhost[127.0.0.1]
>Oct 23 20:30:31 localhost postfix/smtpd[13513]: disconnect from
>localhost[127.0.0.1]
>Oct 23 20:30:31 localhost postfix/cleanup[13514]: 0CA9A25C0C3:
>message-id=<20061024012531.0CA9A25C0C3 at mycomp.example.com>


I looked at this a bit deeper, and I see the '[Errno 9] Bad file
descriptor' originates in the Python socket library when smtplib
attempts to send or receive on a closed connection.

Therefore, it appears the scenario is something like the following:

- Mailman attempts to send
- The SMTP transaction proceeds to the point where smtplib sends DATA
- Something happens (or doesn't happen) here and the MTA times out
(after waiting 5 minutes) and disconnects (closes the socket).
- smtplib sends or receives on the closed socket and gets the error 9.

We still don't know what causes the timeout. The smtplib debugging info
would help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From josh at emediatedesigns.com  Tue Oct 24 17:33:28 2006
From: josh at emediatedesigns.com (Josh Orchard)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 08:33:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to force mailman to process bounces but not
 send out anymore emails
Message-ID: <453E3248.7080809@emediatedesigns.com>

Hello,

I have many bounces in the thousands from a very large list (800K) that 
was sent. Will the list was stopped after 500K or so.  I would like to 
stop it from sending any more emails and have it process only the 
bounced emails and clean up only the bounces. 

So, basically how to make it only do the -leave emails that were sent. 

Thanks,

Josh



From rustyw007 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 24 18:06:58 2006
From: rustyw007 at yahoo.com (Rusty Wilson)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:06:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing archive template for a specific list
Message-ID: <20061024160658.55469.qmail@web84010.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Everyone,

mm 2.1.5

I want to make a template change to one specific archive template. I've reviewed:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037493.html> and <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037646.html>. These seem to show how to make a template change that will affect all lists.

On a hunch I edited:
$prefix/mailman/archives/public/<listname>/index.html

I then restarted mailman qrunners (per messages above).

As you've guessed, the change stuck, until the next post was made to the list.

What obvious step have I overlooked? Again, I want to make a template change to just one archive in particular.

TIA,
Rusty


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 24 18:18:35 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:18:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to force mailman to process bounces but
	notsend out anymore emails
In-Reply-To: <453E3248.7080809@emediatedesigns.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061024091835003100746ea2@msapiro>

Josh Orchard wrote:
>
>I have many bounces in the thousands from a very large list (800K) that 
>was sent. Will the list was stopped after 500K or so.  I would like to 
>stop it from sending any more emails and have it process only the 
>bounced emails and clean up only the bounces. 
>
>So, basically how to make it only do the -leave emails that were sent. 


Find Mailman's qfiles directory with subdirectories archive,  bounces, 
commands,  in,  news,  out,  retry,  shunt and  virgin.

Any outgoing messages not yet sent by Mailman will be in the out/ and
or retry/ queues. These are files of the form
ttttt.ttttt+xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.pck. You can delete these.

Any unprocessed returned bounces will be in bounces/ and any
unprocessed messages sent to -leave or -request (or -confirm, -join,
-(un)subscribe) will be in commands/.

Any unprocessed messages created by Mailman such as owner notices will
be in virgin/.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From josh at emediatedesigns.com  Tue Oct 24 18:35:59 2006
From: josh at emediatedesigns.com (Josh Orchard)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:35:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to force mailman to process bounces but
 notsend out anymore emails
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061024091835003100746ea2@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061024091835003100746ea2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <453E40EF.9060604@emediatedesigns.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Josh Orchard wrote:
>   
>> I have many bounces in the thousands from a very large list (800K) that 
>> was sent. Will the list was stopped after 500K or so.  I would like to 
>> stop it from sending any more emails and have it process only the 
>> bounced emails and clean up only the bounces. 
>>
>> So, basically how to make it only do the -leave emails that were sent. 
>>     
>
>
> Find Mailman's qfiles directory with subdirectories archive,  bounces, 
> commands,  in,  news,  out,  retry,  shunt and  virgin.
>
> Any outgoing messages not yet sent by Mailman will be in the out/ and
> or retry/ queues. These are files of the form
> ttttt.ttttt+xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.pck. You can delete these.
>
> Any unprocessed returned bounces will be in bounces/ and any
> unprocessed messages sent to -leave or -request (or -confirm, -join,
> -(un)subscribe) will be in commands/.
>
> Any unprocessed messages created by Mailman such as owner notices will
> be in virgin/.
>
>   
So, if I delete the out and virgin all outgoing will be stop and if I 
then start mailman back up it will do automatically process the bounces 
for me? 

Thanks,

Josh


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 24 18:35:21 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:35:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing archive template for a specific list
In-Reply-To: <20061024160658.55469.qmail@web84010.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006102409352104216c0c5e5a@msapiro>

Rusty Wilson wrote:
>
>I want to make a template change to one specific archive template. I've reviewed:
>
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037493.html> and <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037646.html>. These seem to show how to make a template change that will affect all lists.

quoting from
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037646.html>
which information is also in the FAQ at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>:


     # When looking for a template in a specific language, there are 4 
places
     # that are searched, in this order:
     #
     # 1. the list-specific language directory
     #    lists/<listname>/<language>
     #
     # 2. the domain-specific language directory
     #    templates/<list.host_name>/<language>
     #
     # 3. the site-wide language directory
     #    templates/site/<language>
     #
     # 4. the global default language directory
     #    templates/<language>
     #


In other words, for example, if you want to change the English language
archtocnombox.html templaty for the 'examplelist' list only, you
create the directory lists/examplelist/en/ if it doesn't exist and
save the edited template as lists/examplelist/en/archtocnombox.html
(note the lists/examplelist/ directory will exist and contains the
list's config.pck, etc. files).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From szybalski at gmail.com  Tue Oct 24 19:29:48 2006
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 12:29:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006102408521905150c229316@msapiro>
References: <804e5c70610231957k2bbaf78dob186868cccc3bbd0@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602006102408521905150c229316@msapiro>
Message-ID: <804e5c70610241029h423aabf9v596172649ad9e862@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/24/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
> >
> >Why do i get this error in smtp-failure?
> >Any ideas?
> >
> >Oct 23 20:30:31 2006 (13510) delivery to email at email.com failed with
> >code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
> >Oct 23 20:30:31 2006 (13510) delivery to email at email.com failed with
> >code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
> >Oct 23 20:30:31 2006 (13510) Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file
> >descriptor, msgid:
> ><mailman.1.1161642951.1495.listname at lists.example.com>
> >Oct 23 20:33:30 2006 (13510) Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file
> >descriptor, msgid:
> ><mailman.1.1161643730.13036.lists at lists.example.com>
> >
> >mail.info says:
> >Oct 23 20:25:31 localhost postfix/smtpd[13513]: connect from
> >localhost[127.0.0.1]
> >Oct 23 20:25:31 localhost postfix/smtpd[13513]: 0CA9A25C0C3:
> >client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
> >Oct 23 20:30:31 localhost postfix/smtpd[13513]: timeout after DATA
> >from localhost[127.0.0.1]
> >Oct 23 20:30:31 localhost postfix/smtpd[13513]: disconnect from
> >localhost[127.0.0.1]
> >Oct 23 20:30:31 localhost postfix/cleanup[13514]: 0CA9A25C0C3:
> >message-id=<20061024012531.0CA9A25C0C3 at mycomp.example.com>
>
-rw-r--r--  1 root list 16282 2006-10-18 17:38 SMTPDirect.py
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 10009 2006-10-23 21:18 SMTPDirect.pyc
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 10009 2006-10-23 21:18 SMTPDirect.pyo

>
> I looked at this a bit deeper, and I see the '[Errno 9] Bad file
> descriptor' originates in the Python socket library when smtplib
> attempts to send or receive on a closed connection.
>
> Therefore, it appears the scenario is something like the following:
>
> - Mailman attempts to send
> - The SMTP transaction proceeds to the point where smtplib sends DATA
> - Something happens (or doesn't happen) here and the MTA times out
> (after waiting 5 minutes) and disconnects (closes the socket).
> - smtplib sends or receives on the closed socket and gets the error 9.
>
> We still don't know what causes the timeout. The smtplib debugging info
> would help.
Where would i find it or how would i get it. Error, smtp,
smtp-failure, syslog has only what i have pasted in.


From betsy.schwartz at gmail.com  Tue Oct 24 19:33:37 2006
From: betsy.schwartz at gmail.com (Elizabeth Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:33:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Holding messages from non-members?
Message-ID: <a923f15e0610241033p432398a9x25a18735139dbd94@mail.gmail.com>

I am running mailman 2.1.8 on Solaris 10 with sendmail.

I have an umbrella list which seems to be discarding messages from
non-members. With the settings below,  I expected that the correct behavior
would be to hold the messages:

On the Privacy options:
      Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit
action is defined [hold]
      Should messages from non-members, which are automatically discarded,
be forwarded to the list
          moderator? [no]

The Privacy Options page also says:
" Any posting from a non-member who is not explicitly accepted, rejected, or
discarded, will have their posting filtered by the general non-member
rules<http://lists.gsd.harvard.edu/mailman/admin/gsd-announce-l/privacy/sender?VARHELP=privacy/sender/generic_nonmember_action>
."

My general non-member rules page is set to:
When a post from a non-member is received, the message's sender is matched
against the list of explicitly
accepted<http://lists.gsd.harvard.edu/mailman/admin/gsd-announce-l/privacy/sender?VARHELP=privacy/sender/accept_these_nonmembers>,
held<http://lists.gsd.harvard.edu/mailman/admin/gsd-announce-l/privacy/sender?VARHELP=privacy/sender/hold_these_nonmembers>,
rejected<http://lists.gsd.harvard.edu/mailman/admin/gsd-announce-l/privacy/sender?VARHELP=privacy/sender/reject_these_nonmembers>(bounced),
and
discarded<http://lists.gsd.harvard.edu/mailman/admin/gsd-announce-l/privacy/sender?VARHELP=privacy/sender/discard_these_nonmembers>addresses.
If no match is found, then this action is taken.
[Hold]

----
So, why am I not seeing hold? Is there another setting somewhere that I
missed? I did change the settingso that automatically discarded postings are
forwarded to the moderator.


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 24 19:32:39 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:32:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to force mailman to process bounces but
	notsendout anymore emails
In-Reply-To: <453E40EF.9060604@emediatedesigns.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610241032390468063ba61b@msapiro>

Josh Orchard wrote:
>>   
>So, if I delete the out and virgin all outgoing will be stop and if I 
>then start mailman back up it will do automatically process the bounces 
>for me? 


You should also delete any files (messages) in the retry/ queue. Just
delete the files, not the queue directories themselves.

Of course, this doesn't address messages that have already been
delivered from Mailman to the MTA.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 24 19:51:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:51:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Holding messages from non-members?
In-Reply-To: <a923f15e0610241033p432398a9x25a18735139dbd94@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006102410513305319cdbe614@msapiro>

Elizabeth Schwartz wrote:

>I am running mailman 2.1.8 on Solaris 10 with sendmail.
>
>I have an umbrella list which seems to be discarding messages from
>non-members. With the settings below,  I expected that the correct behavior
>would be to hold the messages:
>
>On the Privacy options:
>      Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit
>action is defined [hold]
>      Should messages from non-members, which are automatically discarded,
>be forwarded to the list
>          moderator? [no]


What's in reject_these_nonmembers and discard_these_nonmembers?

Are the discards logged in Mailman's 'vette' log? If so, with what
message?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 24 20:02:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 11:02:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70610241029h423aabf9v596172649ad9e862@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610241102280156063ba4d8@msapiro>

Lukasz Szybalski wrote:

>On 10/24/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>>
>> We still don't know what causes the timeout. The smtplib debugging info
>> would help.
>Where would i find it or how would i get it. Error, smtp,
>smtp-failure, syslog has only what i have pasted in.

The patch to SMTPDirect.py which you say you installed causes Pythons
smtplib to write debugging info to stderr which in a normal Mailman
environment is logged to Mailman's error log. Since you are not
getting the debugging information in Mailman's error log, either you
haven't applied the patch correctly or you haven't patched the correct
file (see the last paragraph of
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-October/054017.html>)
or something is going wrong with logging of stderr writes to the error
log.

I don't think it's likely that the problem is in the logging of stderr
unless this is a Debian issue that I don't know about.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From betsy.schwartz at gmail.com  Tue Oct 24 21:01:49 2006
From: betsy.schwartz at gmail.com (Elizabeth Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 15:01:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Holding messages from non-members?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006102410513305319cdbe614@msapiro>
References: <a923f15e0610241033p432398a9x25a18735139dbd94@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602006102410513305319cdbe614@msapiro>
Message-ID: <a923f15e0610241201k5a9f00cdy87942e0497caa6cd@mail.gmail.com>

reject_these_nonmembers and discard_these_nonmembers are both empty (looking
at the web interface)

The discarded messages appear in vette, but not with the list name, just a
line like this:

Oct 23 14:31:42 2006 (6918) Message discarded, msgid: <
6.2.5.6.2.20061023142639.01ea5d38 at Harvard.edu>

I changed the "should be forwarded to the list moderator" and now messages
are being held.


From josh at emediatedesigns.com  Tue Oct 24 21:02:21 2006
From: josh at emediatedesigns.com (Josh Orchard)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 12:02:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to force mailman to process bounces but
 notsendout anymore emails
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610241032390468063ba61b@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200610241032390468063ba61b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <453E633D.2080200@emediatedesigns.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Josh Orchard wrote:
>   
>>>   
>>>       
>> So, if I delete the out and virgin all outgoing will be stop and if I 
>> then start mailman back up it will do automatically process the bounces 
>> for me? 
>>     
>
>
> You should also delete any files (messages) in the retry/ queue. Just
> delete the files, not the queue directories themselves.
>
> Of course, this doesn't address messages that have already been
> delivered from Mailman to the MTA.
>
>   
yes. I cleaned out the MTA queues already.   So, I can clean those up 
and turn mailman back on and all the commands and bounces will be 
processed?  Thanks, I think I understand how this all works now. 

Josh


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 24 21:50:09 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 12:50:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nodupes flag
In-Reply-To: <B24CEF70CE8F4A4F9DF34C2EB3601F18021B2867@mail.staff.belmont.k12.ma.us>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610241250090546f237954b@msapiro>

Bochkov, Natasha wrote:
>
>I was looking for an answer on the issue I have with the MailMan and
>your name came out on the MailMan forum. Do you know by any chance how
>to turn On nodupes for all list members in a batch?


Use the following withlist script.


Cut here----------------------------------------
"""Set all members of a list to not receive from the list
those posts in which they are directly addressed in To: or Cc:

Save as bin/set_nodups.py

Run via

   bin/withlist -r set_nodups <listname>
"""

from Mailman import mm_cfg

def set_nodups(mlist):
    if not mlist.Locked():
        mlist.Lock()
    for member in mlist.getMembers():
        mlist.setMemberOption(member, mm_cfg.DontReceiveDuplicates, 1)
    mlist.Save()
    mlist.Unlock()
Cut here-----------------------------------------

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 24 22:17:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:17:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Holding messages from non-members?
In-Reply-To: <a923f15e0610241201k5a9f00cdy87942e0497caa6cd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610241317370609139b7b06@msapiro>

Elizabeth Schwartz wrote:
>
>The discarded messages appear in vette, but not with the list name, just a
>line like this:
>
>Oct 23 14:31:42 2006 (6918) Message discarded, msgid: <
>6.2.5.6.2.20061023142639.01ea5d38 at Harvard.edu>


Yeah, it's not too informative, but at least it says that the message
was intentionally discarded and didn't 'fall through the cracks'.


>I changed the "should be forwarded to the list moderator" and now messages
>are being held.


That's wierd. The forward_auto_discards setting is only tested if
generic_nonmember_action is 3 (discard).

What if you set forward_auto_discards off? does the problem return?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Oct 24 22:26:02 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 15:26:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Holding messages from non-members?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610241317370609139b7b06@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200610241317370609139b7b06@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240502c164271b9239@[10.0.1.11]>

At 1:17 PM -0700 10/24/06, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  Yeah, it's not too informative, but at least it says that the message
>  was intentionally discarded and didn't 'fall through the cracks'.

I'm thinking maybe the bodyparts got stripped, thus leaving an empty 
message that Mailman then discarded?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From betsy.schwartz at gmail.com  Wed Oct 25 00:28:29 2006
From: betsy.schwartz at gmail.com (Elizabeth Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 18:28:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Holding messages from non-members?
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c164271b9239@10.0.1.11>
References: <PC1760200610241317370609139b7b06@msapiro>
	<p06240502c164271b9239@10.0.1.11>
Message-ID: <a923f15e0610241528j6eb65357sa51baecc2ed3e29c@mail.gmail.com>

I'm sorry , this one was our screwup.

An old test list was around with a name that was one letter off.

(It would be a nice touch if the 'vette' log showed which list the discarded
mail was sent to...)


From Joel.Starkey at dcita.gov.au  Wed Oct 25 01:51:30 2006
From: Joel.Starkey at dcita.gov.au (Starkey, Joel)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 09:51:30 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Users subscribe with their emails being classified
	in the Subject field
Message-ID: <43B16B8E3AED9542AFF8401E28BDF70C032465E5@EX10.dept.gov.au>

Many of our subscribers cannot reply to the confirmation email to
confirm their subscription/unsubscription as their emails are being
classified on the way out of their email gateway. This is occurring in
both Government and Industry associations. I have seen these in various
format which have included:

 

Subject: confirm f901053f30c0fe1b3050899370ed960e6303a68e
[SEC:UNCLASSIFIED]

Subject: confirm
f901053f30c0fe1b3050899370ed960e6303a68e[SEC:UNCLASSIFIED]

Subject: [SEC:UNCLASSIFIED]confirm
f901053f30c0fe1b3050899370ed960e6303a68e

Subject: Unclassified - confirm f901053f30c0fe1b3050899370ed960e6303a68e

 

Has anyone come across this before and does anybody have a fix for this
so Mailman accepts and processes the confirmation. As currently if this
occurs mailman returns an "unprocessed" email.

 

Many thanks

 

Joel

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

The information transmitted is for the use of the intended recipient only and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged material. 
Any review, re-transmission, disclosure, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may result in severe penalties. 
If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the Security Advisor of the Department of Communications, Information Technology and the Arts, telephone (02) 6271-1880 and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments.
For all other enquiries please ring (02) 6271-1000. 
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________





From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 25 02:37:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 17:37:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Holding messages from non-members?
In-Reply-To: <a923f15e0610241528j6eb65357sa51baecc2ed3e29c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610241737180234a6fa629c@msapiro>

Elizabeth Schwartz wrote:
>
>(It would be a nice touch if the 'vette' log showed which list the discarded
>mail was sent to...)


I added it to my ToDo list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 25 03:19:24 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 18:19:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Users subscribe with their emails being
	classifiedin the Subject field
In-Reply-To: <43B16B8E3AED9542AFF8401E28BDF70C032465E5@EX10.dept.gov.au>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610241819240984b6adb250@msapiro>

Starkey, Joel wrote:

>Many of our subscribers cannot reply to the confirmation email to
>confirm their subscription/unsubscription as their emails are being
>classified on the way out of their email gateway. This is occurring in
>both Government and Industry associations. I have seen these in various
>format which have included:
>
> 
>
>Subject: confirm f901053f30c0fe1b3050899370ed960e6303a68e [SEC:UNCLASSIFIED]
<snip>

>Has anyone come across this before and does anybody have a fix for this
>so Mailman accepts and processes the confirmation. As currently if this
>occurs mailman returns an "unprocessed" email.


Set

VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes

in mm_cfg.py. This will cause the confirm token to be added to the
From: address of the confirmation as in

From: list-confirm+f901053f30c0fe1b3050899370ed960e6303a68e at example.com

When the reply is sent to
list-confirm+f901053f30c0fe1b3050899370ed960e6303a68e at example.com, the
token is extracted from the To: header and the confirmation is
processed without examining the Subject: header (which contains a
'friendlier' subject) at all.

Notes -

Pre Mailman 2.1.6, VERP_CONFIRMATIONS applied only to invitations.

See the settings for VERP_CONFIRM_FORMAT and VERP_CONFIRM_REGEXP if
your MTA doesn't like the '+' delimiter.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From BEBL.IT at InfoTechAccounting.com  Wed Oct 25 16:59:41 2006
From: BEBL.IT at InfoTechAccounting.com (Bruce E. Breeding)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 09:59:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella List / Moderation
Message-ID: <05b401c6f846$33879300$1400000a@reuben>

I'm implementing an umbrella list over three other lists.

When I send mail to the umbrella list, three events occur:
(a)  For each of the three lists, I (as owner) receive a request for approval with the message:  Message has implicit destination
(b)  Duplicate receiving email addresses (on two or all three of the sublists) are not being eliminated.
(c)  I do NOT receive a request for approval from the umbrella list (yes!)

I would like for the approval to be automatic and I'd like for duplicate email addresses to be eliminated.  I've probably missed the obvious, but I've invested several hours in troubleshooting ...

What I've done:
(1)  added the sender's email address to the privacy options / sender filter / non-member (even though the sender is a member and the sender's email moderate check-box is not checked).
(2)  done (1) above for each sublist and the umbrella list, although in the umbrella list, the sender is not a member.
(3)  added the <umbrellalistname>@listdomain.org as a sender not needing approval as in (1) above, but I didn't think I should have to do this, since it's not the original sender.

I've presumed that email addresses are not case sensitive, and routinely enter all addresses in lower case.

Solutions or next troubleshooting step suggestions are welcomed.

Thank you,
Bruce
(newbie to mailman, oldie to information technology, and embarrassed that I can't figure this out on my own)

From chatty at flock.com  Wed Oct 25 18:10:09 2006
From: chatty at flock.com (Christopher Hatty)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 09:10:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin Integration Question
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c16312387728@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <001401c6f850$0baf5570$fe02010a@onyx>

Ahahaha! All my mail from this list ended up in a spam folder. Ahem...

> Personally, I am strongly opposed to integrating these sorts 
> of things into Mailman itself.  This should be done before 
> the message ever gets to Mailman, so that Mailman never even 
> sees most of the spam, and only has to hold for moderation 
> the stuff that you're not sure about.

I agree with this. But that will require a little more thought on my part in
order to be non-disruptive, and still  wouldn't necessarily address the
issue.

> But 2.1.6 had some security holes, and there were other problems with
> 2.1.7 and 2.1.8, so 2.1.9 is now out.  Try that version, and if you can't
get that to work, let us know what
> problems you're having and maybe we can help.

K. Thanks!

C



From drnick at physics.byu.edu  Wed Oct 25 21:10:09 2006
From: drnick at physics.byu.edu (Blatter, Nicholas)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 13:10:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change content filter rejection text
Message-ID: <5DC600B80DB6EE4BAB1D631E14FBADCC2A93D3@bohr.physics.byu.edu>

I'm wondering if there is any way to change the message sent by the
content filter when a message is rejected. I'm trying to move away from
letting users send HTML messages to the lists I manage, and instead of
saying "The message's content type was not explicitly allowed" I would
like it to explain that only plain text messages are allowed.

I saw there are language directories in messages/ with this field, but
there are no English directories there (as I assume it's compiled into
the program).

Is there any way to change this message?

Thanks.


From szybalski at gmail.com  Wed Oct 25 23:15:43 2006
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:15:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610241102280156063ba4d8@msapiro>
References: <804e5c70610241029h423aabf9v596172649ad9e862@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200610241102280156063ba4d8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <804e5c70610251415m1381c549sadb25ae1fd35b7b6@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/24/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
>
> >On 10/24/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> We still don't know what causes the timeout. The smtplib debugging info
> >> would help.
> >Where would i find it or how would i get it. Error, smtp,
> >smtp-failure, syslog has only what i have pasted in.
>
> The patch to SMTPDirect.py which you say you installed causes Pythons
> smtplib to write debugging info to stderr which in a normal Mailman
> environment is logged to Mailman's error log. Since you are not
> getting the debugging information in Mailman's error log, either you
> haven't applied the patch correctly or you haven't patched the correct
> file (see the last paragraph of
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-October/054017.html>)
> or something is going wrong with logging of stderr writes to the error
> log.
That is the file i patched SMTPDirect.py

 57 class Connection:
     58     def __init__(self):
     59         self.__conn = None
     60
     61     def __connect(self):
     62         self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
     63         self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1)
     64         self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
     65         self.__numsessions=mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION

So after playing with it for a while...I figured the exception is here...

  381     except (socket.error, IOError, smtplib.SMTPException), e:
    382         # MTA not responding, or other socket problems, or any
other kind of
    383         # SMTPException.  In that case, nothing got delivered,
so treat this
    384         # as a temporary failure.
    385         syslog('smtp-failure', 'Low level smtp error: %s,
msgid: %s', e, msgid)
    386         error = str(e)
    387         for r in recips:
    388             refused[r] = (-1, error)

Is there a way to manually get the debug info from smtplib
(conversation with postfix) within this file? debuglevel works if i do
it by hand...

I could add something like this, its just where?
syslog('smtp-failure', 'conversation with smtplib: %s', e)

Also,
the emails seem to go through. Then they stop and then go after i do reopen.

Oct 25 12:51:39 localhost postfix/qmgr[1956]: 3B83225C0C9:
from=<email at site.org>, size=1070, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Oct 25 12:51:39 localhost postfix/smtpd[2479]: disconnect from
xxx.net[207.115.57.84]
Oct 25 12:51:39 localhost postfix/local[2483]: 3B83225C0C9:
to=<test at example.com>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent (delivered to
command: /var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test)
Oct 25 12:51:39 localhost postfix/qmgr[1956]: 3B83225C0C9: removed
Oct 25 12:51:40 localhost postfix/smtpd[2479]: connect from
localhost[127.0.0.1]Oct 25 12:51:40 localhost postfix/smtpd[2479]:
EE11A25C0C9: client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
Oct 25 12:51:40 localhost postfix/cleanup[2482]: EE11A25C0C9:
message-id=<453F6C2C.21928.1A7A5A2D at email.site.org>
Oct 25 12:51:41 localhost postfix/qmgr[1956]: EE11A25C0C9:
from=<test-bounces at example.com>, size=2078, nrcpt=4 (queue active)
Oct 25 12:51:41 localhost postfix/smtpd[2479]: disconnect from
localhost[127.0.0.1]
Oct 25 12:51:41 localhost postfix/local[2483]: EE11A25C0C9:
to=<lucas at example.com>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent (delivered
to command: procmail -a "$EXTENSION")
Oct 25 12:51:41 localhost postfix/local[2483]: EE11A25C0C9:
to=<lucas at example.com>, orig_to=<webmaster at example.com>, relay=local,
delay=1, status=sent (delivered to command: procmail -a "$EXTENSION")
Oct 25 12:51:41 localhost postfix/smtp[2486]: EE11A25C0C9:
to=<example at gmail.com>, relay=smtp.sbcglobal.yahoo.com[68.142.229.41],
delay=1, status=sent (250 ok 1161802397 qp 24637)
Oct 25 12:51:41 localhost postfix/smtp[2486]: EE11A25C0C9:
to=<email_pl at hotmail.com>,
relay=smtp.sbcglobal.yahoo.com[68.142.229.41], delay=1, status=sent
(250 ok 1161802397 qp 24637)
Oct 25 12:51:41 localhost postfix/qmgr[1956]: EE11A25C0C9: removed

Oct 25 12:55:20 localhost postfix/smtpd[2501]: connect from
localhost[127.0.0.1]Oct 25 12:55:20 localhost postfix/smtpd[2501]:
525DB25C0C9: client=localhost[127.0.0.1]

Doing : mailmanctrl reopen after 20 sec.

Oct 25 12:55:46 localhost postfix/smtpd[2501]: lost connection after
DATA from localhost[127.0.0.1]
Oct 25 12:55:46 localhost postfix/smtpd[2501]: disconnect from
localhost[127.0.0.1]
Oct 25 12:55:46 localhost postfix/cleanup[2504]: 525DB25C0C9:
message-id=<20061025175520.525DB25C0C9 at mycomp.example.com>
Oct 25 12:55:46 localhost postfix/smtpd[2501]: connect from
localhost[127.0.0.1]Oct 25 12:55:46 localhost postfix/smtpd[2501]:
45FD325C0C9: client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
Oct 25 12:55:46 localhost postfix/cleanup[2504]: 45FD325C0C9:
message-id=<453F6C2C.21928.1A7A5A2D at email.site.org>
Oct 25 12:55:46 localhost postfix/qmgr[1956]: 45FD325C0C9:
from=<test-bounces at example.com>, size=2106, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Oct 25 12:55:46 localhost postfix/smtpd[2501]: disconnect from
localhost[127.0.0.1]
Oct 25 12:55:46 localhost postfix/smtp[2508]: 45FD325C0C9:
to=<email at site.org>, relay=smtp.sbcglobal.yahoo.com[68.142.229.41],
delay=0, status=sent (250 ok 1161802643 qp 89987)
Oct 25 12:55:46 localhost postfix/qmgr[1956]: 45FD325C0C9: removed

Thanks,
Lucas

>
> I don't think it's likely that the problem is in the logging of stderr
> unless this is a Debian issue that I don't know about.


From forrest at ce.berkeley.edu  Thu Oct 26 02:41:07 2006
From: forrest at ce.berkeley.edu (Jon Forrest)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 17:41:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem With DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN
Message-ID: <45400423.7040905@ce.berkeley.edu>

(Mailman 2.1.9 on Fedora Core 5 Linux)

In mm_cfg.py I have

	DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'

However, when I go to my mailman/listinfo page the
links to my lists are wrong. They're

https://https//mailman.ce.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/listname

instead of

https://mailman.ce.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/listname

If I enter a corrected link (without the extra "https//")
into my browser I get to the right page.

This is happening even though I (believe) I followed the instructions
in section 4.27 of the FAQ by running

	bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url

I'm not sure if it matters by in Defaults.py I have

	DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'https://mailman.ce.berkeley.edu'
	add_virtualhost( 'mailman.ce.berkeley.edu', 'martin.ce.berkeley.edu' )

What am I doing wrong that causes the incorrect URLs to appear?

Cordially,
-- 
Jon Forrest
forrest at ce.berkeley.edu
Computer Resources Manager
Civil and Environmental Engineering Dept.
305 Davis Hall
Univ. of Calif., Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720-1710
510-642-0904



From forrest at ce.berkeley.edu  Thu Oct 26 02:50:04 2006
From: forrest at ce.berkeley.edu (Jon Forrest)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 17:50:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem With DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN
In-Reply-To: <45400423.7040905@ce.berkeley.edu>
References: <45400423.7040905@ce.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <4540063C.8070605@ce.berkeley.edu>

Minor correction:

> 	add_virtualhost( 'mailman.ce.berkeley.edu', 'martin.ce.berkeley.edu' )

This is in mm_cfg.py, not Defaults.py as I stupidly said.

Sorry,

Jon




From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Thu Oct 26 03:01:24 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:01:24 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem With DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN
In-Reply-To: <45400423.7040905@ce.berkeley.edu>
References: <45400423.7040905@ce.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <454008E4.1010200@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

> 	DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'https://mailman.ce.berkeley.edu'

should be 'mailman.ce.berkeley.edu'.

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 26 05:21:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 20:21:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella List / Moderation
In-Reply-To: <05b401c6f846$33879300$1400000a@reuben>
Message-ID: <PC176020061025202108035965d978ef@msapiro>

Bruce E. Breeding wrote:

>I'm implementing an umbrella list over three other lists.
>
>When I send mail to the umbrella list, three events occur:
>(a)  For each of the three lists, I (as owner) receive a request for approval with the message:  Message has implicit destination



On Privacy options...->Recipient filters for each sub-list, add the
posting address of the umbrella lis to acceptable_aliases or, if you
prefer, set require_explicit_destination to No.


>(b)  Duplicate receiving email addresses (on two or all three of the sublists) are not being eliminated.


That is correct. The members nodups setting only stops sending a list
post to the member if the member is an explicit addressee of the post.
The original idea of nodups was to do more, but it wasn't implemented.


>(c)  I do NOT receive a request for approval from the umbrella list (yes!)
>
>I would like for the approval to be automatic and I'd like for duplicate email addresses to be eliminated.  I've probably missed the obvious, but I've invested several hours in troubleshooting ...


As indicated, you can do the former, but doing the latter requires code
modification.


>What I've done:
>(1)  added the sender's email address to the privacy options / sender filter / non-member (even though the sender is a member and the sender's email moderate check-box is not checked).


Never checked if the sender is a member and not the hold reason. See
comment under (a) above.


>(2)  done (1) above for each sublist and the umbrella list, although in the umbrella list, the sender is not a member.


This for the umbrella list is probably what allows the sender's post to
pass through to the sub-lists.


>(3)  added the <umbrellalistname>@listdomain.org as a sender not needing approval as in (1) above, but I didn't think I should have to do this, since it's not the original sender.


Probably correct that you didn't need to do this.


Remark under (a) will fix (a).

(b) is the subject of Feature Request
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=230730&group_id=103&atid=350103>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 26 05:38:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 20:38:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change content filter rejection text
In-Reply-To: <5DC600B80DB6EE4BAB1D631E14FBADCC2A93D3@bohr.physics.byu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020061025203828018765d97857@msapiro>

Blatter, Nicholas wrote:

>I'm wondering if there is any way to change the message sent by the
>content filter when a message is rejected. I'm trying to move away from
>letting users send HTML messages to the lists I manage, and instead of
>saying "The message's content type was not explicitly allowed" I would
>like it to explain that only plain text messages are allowed.
>
>I saw there are language directories in messages/ with this field, but
>there are no English directories there (as I assume it's compiled into
>the program).


As you surmise, the English language text in the mailman.po/mailman.mo
files is the 'key' to the translated text. The English language text
is in the source modules.


>Is there any way to change this message?


Only by editing the message itself in the Mailman/Handlers/MimeDel.py
module.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Oct 26 05:54:30 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 12:54:30 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Umbrella List / Moderation
In-Reply-To: <05b401c6f846$33879300$1400000a@reuben>
References: <05b401c6f846$33879300$1400000a@reuben>
Message-ID: <17728.12662.361380.228327@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Bruce E. Breeding writes:

 > I'm implementing an umbrella list over three other lists.

 > When I send mail to the umbrella list, three events occur:

 > (a) For each of the three lists, I (as owner) receive a request for
 >     approval with the message: Message has implicit destination

Add "UMBRELLALISTNAME at listdomain.org" to acceptable_aliases in
Privacy>Recipient Filters.

 > (b) Duplicate receiving email addresses (on two or all three of the
 >     sublists) are not being eliminated.

No way to win here, currently.  Mailman could easily keep a database
of delivered-msgid/subscriber/timestamp triples, but for large
high-traffic lists this would be huge even with short expirations, and
probably would impact performance severely (the database would need to
be locked for every single delivery).  More sophisticated algorithms
specifically for umbrella lists could be designed, but that would
require a centralized user database which Mailman doesn't have yet.
(For the relatively rare "do this for all my lists" kind of user
request, it just interates over all lists looking for the user in the
list-specific databases.)

If you really want that badly and your lists are small, it would be
easy to insert such a delivery database filter into the pipeline, plus
a couple of lines of code in the actual delivery Handler to consult
it.  (I don't have one yet, not even a proof of concept.  Sorry.  But
somebody should be able to pick up on the hint.)



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 26 05:53:52 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 20:53:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send messages to list
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70610251415m1381c549sadb25ae1fd35b7b6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610252053520437c9fec529@msapiro>

Lukasz Szybalski wrote:

>That is the file i patched SMTPDirect.py
>
> 57 class Connection:
>     58     def __init__(self):
>     59         self.__conn = None
>     60
>     61     def __connect(self):
>     62         self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
>     63         self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1)
>     64         self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
>     65         self.__numsessions=mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION



But is it the correct Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py. I.e. is it the
one in the running Mailman installation, and not one in some unpack or
build directory?

Did you check the timestamp on the Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.pyc on
the same path (if there is one) to be sure it is the one being
imported by Mailman after you do a 'restart'


>So after playing with it for a while...I figured the exception is here...
>
>  381     except (socket.error, IOError, smtplib.SMTPException), e:
>    382         # MTA not responding, or other socket problems, or any
>other kind of
>    383         # SMTPException.  In that case, nothing got delivered,
>so treat this
>    384         # as a temporary failure.
>    385         syslog('smtp-failure', 'Low level smtp error: %s,
>msgid: %s', e, msgid)
>    386         error = str(e)
>    387         for r in recips:
>    388             refused[r] = (-1, error)
>
>Is there a way to manually get the debug info from smtplib
>(conversation with postfix) within this file? debuglevel works if i do
>it by hand...


What do you mean 'do it by hand'? Presumably, whatever you do by hand
doesn't fail. What is that?


>I could add something like this, its just where?
>syslog('smtp-failure', 'conversation with smtplib: %s', e)


You can't. The error occurs in the processing of

        refused = conn.sendmail(envsender, recips, msgtext)

in bulk_deliver and the exception is already caught and all available
information is reported. That's why you have to enable smtplib
debugging to get more information than you already have.


>Also,
>the emails seem to go through. Then they stop and then go after i do reopen.


'reopen' is not the same as 'restart'. Have you ever done a 'restart'?
All 'reopen' does is tell the runners to close and reopen their log
files. It doesn't reload any edited modules.


And, why they stop is what we're trying to figure out, and I can't tell
you any more than I already have without additional information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Thu Oct 26 05:59:06 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 12:59:06 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella List / Moderation
In-Reply-To: <17728.12662.361380.228327@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <05b401c6f846$33879300$1400000a@reuben>
	<17728.12662.361380.228327@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4540328A.7090404@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

>  > (b) Duplicate receiving email addresses (on two or all three of the
>  >     sublists) are not being eliminated.
> 
> No way to win here, currently.  

Try this patch.

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1347962&group_id=103&atid=300103

-- 
Tokio Kikuch, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From BEBL.IT at InfoTechAccounting.com  Thu Oct 26 07:09:17 2006
From: BEBL.IT at InfoTechAccounting.com (Bruce E. Breeding)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 00:09:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella List / Moderation
References: <PC176020061025202108035965d978ef@msapiro>
Message-ID: <076801c6f8bc$e34e7df0$1400000a@reuben>

Bruce's original question:
> >(a)  For each of the three lists, I (as owner) receive a request for
approval with the message:  Message has implicit destination


Mark Sapiro's answer to question (a):
> On Privacy options...->Recipient filters for each sub-list, add the
> posting address of the umbrella lis to acceptable_aliases or, if you
> prefer, set require_explicit_destination to No.

Thank you, Mark (and Stephen who gave the same answer).  Yes, I did this
[added the posting address for the umbrella list in the "recipient filter"
under privacy options for each sub-list] and it worked.

-- Bruce



From tom at tomandtrace.com  Thu Oct 26 05:53:21 2006
From: tom at tomandtrace.com (Tom Brennan)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:53:21 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Leave
Message-ID: <C0CD974F-02F8-463B-83FA-81F13C9F0CB1@tomandtrace.com>




----

tom "mo town" brennan
http://www.movember.com.au/au/sponsor,   my rego is 5386

www.tomandtrace.com
callto://tomandtrace
msn: tom at tomandtrace.com






From md6969 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 26 08:55:16 2006
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 07:55:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails not writing to archive immediately
Message-ID: <45405BD4.2070300@gmail.com>

I've just been mailed by one of my users to say that the archive for my 
list is not up to date. Having just checked prior to sending this, I 
found that by clicking on the "Date" link for this month, the last 
message written to it is nearly a week old. Downloading the Gzip'd text 
file (which never actually shows the correct size - any ideas?) brings 
me forward to only approximately 24 hours behind.

Does anybody know why this is - I'm assuming messages that get posted to 
the list should also hit the archive at the same time.

Rgds

MD


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 26 13:59:51 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 04:59:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails not writing to archive immediately
In-Reply-To: <45405BD4.2070300@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610260459510187a043182e@msapiro>

Martin Dennett wrote:

>I've just been mailed by one of my users to say that the archive for my 
>list is not up to date. Having just checked prior to sending this, I 
>found that by clicking on the "Date" link for this month, the last 
>message written to it is nearly a week old. Downloading the Gzip'd text 
>file (which never actually shows the correct size - any ideas?) brings 
>me forward to only approximately 24 hours behind.


The .txt.gz file is essentially up to date (it is only updated once
daily when cron/nightly_gzip runs). If you remove the ".gz" from the
URL that accesses the gzipped text, you will see the ungzipped text,
and it should be completely up to date.

Thus the problem is *not* that ArchRunner isn't running, but rather it
is in the archiving process itself. You need to check Mailman's
'error' log which will contain error reports and tracebacks of the
exception that causes the problem. Also, the messages have probably
been placed in Mailman's 'shunt' queue and can be reprocessed for the
archive by bin/unshunt, but the problem has to be fixed first, or they
will just be shunted again.

If you don't have access to the logs, you'll have to enlist the help of
whoever does.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jferrai at us.ibm.com  Thu Oct 26 16:05:10 2006
From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 07:05:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How does mailman/mail/wrapper get created?
Message-ID: <OFBC6ABA46.F36CE2AC-ON88257213.004D422E-88257213.004D60B6@us.ibm.com>



I am working with my ISP to get Mailman installed on a private domain. I
believe we have followed all of the Mailman setup instructions correctly.
We are at the point where we mail lists with subscribers. However, when
attempted to send email to one of the lists (e.g., foo at bar.com), we are now
getting an error message that says:

    sh: line 1: /home/bar/mailman/mail/wrapper: No such file or directory

Looking at my installation, there is no mail/main/wrapper file. Should
there be one? Should it have been created by "make install" or is this
something that needs to be created manually?

Thanks.

Jon Ferraiolo <jferrai at us.ibm.com>

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 26 16:28:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 07:28:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How does mailman/mail/wrapper get created?
In-Reply-To: <OFBC6ABA46.F36CE2AC-ON88257213.004D422E-88257213.004D60B6@us.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006102607283606715772b3a3@msapiro>

Jon Ferraiolo wrote:
>
>We are at the point where we mail lists with subscribers. However, when
>attempted to send email to one of the lists (e.g., foo at bar.com), we are now
>getting an error message that says:
>
>    sh: line 1: /home/bar/mailman/mail/wrapper: No such file or directory
>
>Looking at my installation, there is no mail/main/wrapper file. Should
>there be one? Should it have been created by "make install" or is this
>something that needs to be created manually?


It looks like you have installed aliases or other MTA configuration for
Mailman 2.0.x. In 2.1 the mail wrapper is
/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman (or whatever the path is). It is named
'mailman', not 'wrapper'.

See item 2 in
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From anne.ramey at ncmail.net  Thu Oct 26 17:29:44 2006
From: anne.ramey at ncmail.net (Anne Ramey)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:29:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] LDAP auth for admins
Message-ID: <4540D468.9020400@ncmail.net>

Has anyone done this already: change the login page to accept email 
address and password and then (1) check to be sure the email address is 
an owner of the list then (2) if so, authenticate them off an LDAP?  
This would really reduce our forgot password type support calls.

-- 

Anne 



From scott at fyrenice.com  Thu Oct 26 18:07:01 2006
From: scott at fyrenice.com (Dr. Scott S. Jones)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:07:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still can't send out from Mailman
Message-ID: <20061026160701.GA32262@xmission.com>

AFAIK, my mailman failure to send out issue, resides solely at the pathway
from mailman -> exim. All other email traffic, i.e., exim->mailman and all
other email traffic, seems to work just fine. 

I have included the debug line in my SMTPDirect.py file, and yet nothing
shows up in /var/log/mailman/error, i.e., no debug messages. 

Scott



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 26 19:23:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:23:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still can't send out from Mailman
In-Reply-To: <20061026160701.GA32262@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610261023460081f06ab6df@msapiro>

Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote:

>AFAIK, my mailman failure to send out issue, resides solely at the pathway
>from mailman -> exim. All other email traffic, i.e., exim->mailman and all
>other email traffic, seems to work just fine. 
>
>I have included the debug line in my SMTPDirect.py file, and yet nothing
>shows up in /var/log/mailman/error, i.e., no debug messages. 


If you have restarted Mailman after adding the set_debuglevel(1) call,
you should at least see the connect attempt logged.

You can try the following:

Give the command

/usr/lib/python2.x/smtplib.py

It will prompt you for a To: and From: address and a message body and
then attempt to send that via 'localhost' port 25 and print all the
debugging info.

Note that the /usr/lib/python2.x part of the above needs to be
adjusted, but it is the path to your installed Python library. It is
usually /usr/lib/python2.x where 2.x is your Python version.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From d.alan.stewart at mac.com  Thu Oct 26 20:55:25 2006
From: d.alan.stewart at mac.com (D. Alan Stewart)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 14:55:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] undelivered mail, but only to some
In-Reply-To: <45400423.7040905@ce.berkeley.edu>
References: <45400423.7040905@ce.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <0461FC7E-E277-4F04-B9E3-D988331EB480@mac.com>

I am having a baffling problem with Mailman. Suddenly the list that I  
am administrating has stopped delivering mail to a subset of the  
subscribers. It's not readily apparent what those that are not  
receiving the mails have in common - the domains that I know of  
include mac.com, yahoo.com, av8inc.com. It also seems that anyone new  
added to the list does not receive emails, though they do receive the  
initial subscripion notice and the monthly reminders. I have seen  
once that someone newly subscribed received one posting and has not  
received another since.

This list is provided to me by my web hosting provider, who is also  
baffled. The Mailman installation is version 2.1.5. The sendmail logs  
show successful transmissions to the users in question, at the  
correct time, so it appears Mailman is sending something, but the  
receiving end  must be discarding it. I'm one of those not receiving  
the emails. I've contacted my mail provider, mac.com, but they want a  
copy of the email being sent with complete headers. Since any new  
subscribers I've added aren't getting emails I'm having trouble doing  
this.

We set up a test list. I've found that the test list works if I  
subscribe only myself. However, if I mass subscribe all the  
subscribers of the malfunctioning list to the test list, it appears  
to behave in the same manner as the malfunctioning list. That seems  
to imply that it is either the number of subscribers or that one bad  
entry in the list is creating the problem. It can't be the number of  
subscribers, there are other, bigger Mailman lists on this same host  
that seem to be working correctly. There are less than 100  
subscribers to my list. In examining the list that I am subscribing I  
can find no entries that appear malformed.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

TIA.
Alan


From anne.ramey at ncmail.net  Thu Oct 26 21:31:00 2006
From: anne.ramey at ncmail.net (Anne Ramey)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 15:31:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trying to change default_url_pattern
Message-ID: <45410CF4.1070702@ncmail.net>

I put this setting in my mm_cfg.py:
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman_ldap/'

and my httpd.conf contains this:
# This alias is for mailman mailing lists
ScriptAlias /mailman_ldap/ "/usr/local/mailman_ldap/cgi-bin/"

I can log into the list fine, but all of the links on that page are 
/mailman/ not /mailman_ldap/ and if I try and type in the correct link 
it works.  How do I change this so that it changes what links it creates 
in my web interface?*
*

-- 

Anne 



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Oct 26 21:35:29 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 12:35:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trying to change default_url_pattern
In-Reply-To: <45410CF4.1070702@ncmail.net>
References: <45410CF4.1070702@ncmail.net>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061026123421.03f2b920@crimson-dragon.com>

Anne Ramey sent the message below at 12:31 10/26/2006:
>I put this setting in my mm_cfg.py:
>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman_ldap/'
>
>and my httpd.conf contains this:
># This alias is for mailman mailing lists
>ScriptAlias /mailman_ldap/ "/usr/local/mailman_ldap/cgi-bin/"
>
>I can log into the list fine, but all of the links on that page are
>/mailman/ not /mailman_ldap/ and if I try and type in the correct link
>it works.  How do I change this so that it changes what links it creates
>in my web interface?*
>*
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Did you make these changes before or after setting up the list(s)?

If after, did you run fix_url on the list(s) to update their configuration?

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From anne.ramey at ncmail.net  Thu Oct 26 22:17:34 2006
From: anne.ramey at ncmail.net (Anne Ramey)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:17:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trying to change default_url_pattern
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061026123421.03f2b920@crimson-dragon.com>
References: <45410CF4.1070702@ncmail.net>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20061026123421.03f2b920@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <454117DE.9050304@ncmail.net>

I thought that was just for the hostname.  Worked like a charm!  Thanks

Anne 


Dragon wrote:
> Anne Ramey sent the message below at 12:31 10/26/2006:
>> I put this setting in my mm_cfg.py:
>> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman_ldap/'
>>
>> and my httpd.conf contains this:
>> # This alias is for mailman mailing lists
>> ScriptAlias /mailman_ldap/ "/usr/local/mailman_ldap/cgi-bin/"
>>
>> I can log into the list fine, but all of the links on that page are
>> /mailman/ not /mailman_ldap/ and if I try and type in the correct link
>> it works.  How do I change this so that it changes what links it creates
>> in my web interface?*
>> *
> ---------------- End original message. ---------------------
>
> Did you make these changes before or after setting up the list(s)?
>
> If after, did you run fix_url on the list(s) to update their 
> configuration?
>
> Dragon
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 26 22:24:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:24:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trying to change default_url_pattern
In-Reply-To: <454117DE.9050304@ncmail.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602006102613244808622c0fe90e@msapiro>

Anne Ramey wrote re: fix_url:

>I thought that was just for the hostname.  Worked like a charm!  Thanks


Actually, you can change host_name (email host) from the web interface
so fix_url isn't really needed for that. What fix_url updates in
addition to host_name is the hidden attribute web_page_url which is
made from DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN with the substitution of the web host,

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 26 22:46:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:46:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] undelivered mail, but only to some
In-Reply-To: <0461FC7E-E277-4F04-B9E3-D988331EB480@mac.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610261346410550cc9a278f@msapiro>

D. Alan Stewart wrote:
>
>This list is provided to me by my web hosting provider, who is also  
>baffled. The Mailman installation is version 2.1.5. The sendmail logs  
>show successful transmissions to the users in question, at the  
>correct time, so it appears Mailman is sending something, but the  
>receiving end  must be discarding it. I'm one of those not receiving  
>the emails. I've contacted my mail provider, mac.com, but they want a  
>copy of the email being sent with complete headers. Since any new  
>subscribers I've added aren't getting emails I'm having trouble doing  
>this.


If the sendmail log says the post is sent to the user in question,
Mailman delivered it to sendmail for the user, and it's not Mailman's
problem.

Here are things you can check.

Mailman's 'smtp' log. This will tell you how many recipients the post
was sent to.

Also check if the list is personalized. You may not even have
personalization options on your Non-digest options page which means
that OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION is not set to Yes in mm_cfg.py
and delivery is almost certainly not personailzed.

Check the settings of VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL and SMTP_MAX_RCPTS if any
in mm_cfg.py

If the list is not personalized and delivery is not 'VERP like' because
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL has its default value of 0, and SMTP_MAX_RCPTS
has its default value of 500, then all 100 or less recipients receive
the identical message sent by Mailman in the same SMTP transaction
(with each recipient specified in a RCPT TO command).

You should also see this in the sendmail log, i.e. that the mail was
delivered to sendmail in one transaction.

Thus, if you can get copy of a received post from anyone, all the
initial headers (those that aren't Received: headers added by MTA's
outbound of your sendmail or other headers added by MDA's or receiving
MUA's) will be identical to those of the missing deliveries.


>We set up a test list. I've found that the test list works if I  
>subscribe only myself. However, if I mass subscribe all the  
>subscribers of the malfunctioning list to the test list, it appears  
>to behave in the same manner as the malfunctioning list. That seems  
>to imply that it is either the number of subscribers or that one bad  
>entry in the list is creating the problem. It can't be the number of  
>subscribers, there are other, bigger Mailman lists on this same host  
>that seem to be working correctly.


Can you add yourself to one of these lists?


>There are less than 100  
>subscribers to my list. In examining the list that I am subscribing I  
>can find no entries that appear malformed.
>
>Does anyone have any suggestions?


Sendmail claims it sent the mail to the users who didn't get it. I
recognize the symptoms say that Mailman is somehow involved, but I
don't see how.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From d.alan.stewart at mac.com  Thu Oct 26 22:57:01 2006
From: d.alan.stewart at mac.com (D. Alan Stewart)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:57:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] undelivered mail, but only to some
In-Reply-To: <0461FC7E-E277-4F04-B9E3-D988331EB480@mac.com>
References: <45400423.7040905@ce.berkeley.edu>
	<0461FC7E-E277-4F04-B9E3-D988331EB480@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CB8B183D-CD81-46DD-91F7-EBD94AD51509@mac.com>

In what order does Mailman process subscribers when it is  
transmitting to the list? The order in which they are subscribed?  
Alphabetical by email address? Random?

On Oct 26, 2006, at 2:55 PM, D. Alan Stewart wrote:

> I am having a baffling problem with Mailman. Suddenly the list that I
> am administrating has stopped delivering mail to a subset of the
> subscribers. It's not readily apparent what those that are not
> receiving the mails have in common - the domains that I know of
> include mac.com, yahoo.com, av8inc.com. It also seems that anyone new
> added to the list does not receive emails, though they do receive the
> initial subscripion notice and the monthly reminders. I have seen
> once that someone newly subscribed received one posting and has not
> received another since.
>
> This list is provided to me by my web hosting provider, who is also
> baffled. The Mailman installation is version 2.1.5. The sendmail logs
> show successful transmissions to the users in question, at the
> correct time, so it appears Mailman is sending something, but the
> receiving end  must be discarding it. I'm one of those not receiving
> the emails. I've contacted my mail provider, mac.com, but they want a
> copy of the email being sent with complete headers. Since any new
> subscribers I've added aren't getting emails I'm having trouble doing
> this.
>
> We set up a test list. I've found that the test list works if I
> subscribe only myself. However, if I mass subscribe all the
> subscribers of the malfunctioning list to the test list, it appears
> to behave in the same manner as the malfunctioning list. That seems
> to imply that it is either the number of subscribers or that one bad
> entry in the list is creating the problem. It can't be the number of
> subscribers, there are other, bigger Mailman lists on this same host
> that seem to be working correctly. There are less than 100
> subscribers to my list. In examining the list that I am subscribing I
> can find no entries that appear malformed.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions?
>
> TIA.
> Alan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users% 
> 40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
> d.alan.stewart%40mac.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 26 23:38:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 14:38:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] undelivered mail, but only to some
In-Reply-To: <CB8B183D-CD81-46DD-91F7-EBD94AD51509@mac.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610261438120675dc148a2f@msapiro>

D. Alan Stewart wrote:

>In what order does Mailman process subscribers when it is  
>transmitting to the list? The order in which they are subscribed?  
>Alphabetical by email address? Random?


It's a two step process. In the first step the CalcRecips handler
builds a recipient list. Assuming you don't have a custom
MemberAdaptor, and you probably don't, this list is in a hashed order,
i.e. pseudo random.

Step 2 occurs in the delivery handler, SMTPDirect. Here the above list
is split into up to 4 sublists containing

1 - all the addresses in the .com domain
2 - all the addresses in the .net and .org domains
3 - all the addresses in the .edu, .us and .ca domains
4 - all other addresses

Within these sublists, the original pseudo random order is preserved.

Then the sublists are processed in a hashed order, but since we know
the keys in this case, we know the order (at least with python 2.4),
and it is 4, 1, 2, 3.

So basically the recipient addresses are all the 'other' domain
addresses in a pseudo random order followed by all the .com addresses
in a pseudo random order followed by all the .net and .org addresses
in a pseudo random order followed by all the .edu, .us and .ca
addresses in a pseudo random order.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 26 23:54:13 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 14:54:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still can't send out from Mailman
In-Reply-To: <20061026212842.GA9453@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061026145413080047ac78ed@msapiro>

Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote:
>> 
>> You can try the following:
>> 
>> Give the command
>> 
>> /usr/lib/python2.x/smtplib.py
>> 
>
>fyrenice:/var/log/mailman# /usr/lib/python2.3/smtplib.py
>From: scott at fyrenice.com
>To: sanchiro at gmail.com
>Enter message, end with ^D:
>this is a test message, at M. Sapiro's suggestions. 
>This is only a test.
>Message length is 74
>send: 'ehlo localhost.localdomain\r\n'
>reply: '250-fyrenice.com Hello localhost [127.0.0.1]\r\n'
>reply: '250-SIZE 52428800\r\n'
>reply: '250-PIPELINING\r\n'
>reply: '250 HELP\r\n'
>reply: retcode (250); Msg: fyrenice.com Hello localhost [127.0.0.1]
>SIZE 52428800
>PIPELINING
>HELP
>send: 'mail FROM:<scott at fyrenice.com> size=74\r\n'
>reply: '250 OK\r\n'
>reply: retcode (250); Msg: OK
>send: 'rcpt TO:<sanchiro at gmail.com>\r\n'
>reply: '250 Accepted\r\n'
>reply: retcode (250); Msg: Accepted
>send: 'data\r\n'
>reply: '354 Enter message, ending with "." on a line by itself\r\n'
>reply: retcode (354); Msg: Enter message, ending with "." on a line by itself
>data: (354, 'Enter message, ending with "." on a line by itself')
>send: "this is a test message, at M. Sapiro's suggestions. \r\nThis is only
>a test.\r\n.\r\n"
>reply: '250 OK id=1GdCfZ-0002XR-Fc\r\n'
>reply: retcode (250); Msg: OK id=1GdCfZ-0002XR-Fc
>data: (250, 'OK id=1GdCfZ-0002XR-Fc')
>send: 'quit\r\n'
>reply: '221 fyrenice.com closing connection\r\n'
>reply: retcode (221); Msg: fyrenice.com closing connection
>
>>From all the OK items, is it safe to say that worked correctly, aside from
>my failure to end with a '.' on a line by itself? 


Actually, you did just what you were supposed to do. Terminating the
data with '.' on a line by itself is part of the protocol and smtplib
did that - that's the '\r\n.\r\n' at the end of the data.

So the above test worked. Now the question is why doesn't it work when
Mailman does it.

Things to check/try.

Defaults.py should have

SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
SMTPPORT = 0

These should not be changed in mm_cfg.py.

If the above test was not run as the Mailman user, run it as the
Mailman user ('mailman' or what ever it is on your system).

Try the above as an ordinary user, not root, no special permissions.

BTW, is Mailman using Python 2.3? I.e. is there another Python version
on the machine that Mailman might be using?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 27 01:16:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:16:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still can't send out from Mailman
In-Reply-To: <20061026224311.GA12927@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006102616161608160ef46ba0@msapiro>

Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote:
>
>I changed my mm_cfg.py to read as last two lines: 
>
>SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
>SMTPPORT = 0


This does no harm, but putting those lines in mm_cfg.py doesn't really
do anything as you are just resetting them to the same values they
already have from Defaults.py.


>I have since run /etc/init.d/mailman restart, which responded as follows: 
>
>fyrenice:/etc# /etc/init.d/mailman restart
>Restarting mailman queue runner: mailmanShutting down Mailman's master
>qrunner
>No child with pid: 17469
>[Errno 3] No such process
>Stale pid file removed.
>Starting Mailman's master qrunner.


This indicates that Mailman may have been improperly shut down in the
past (maybe from your crash?). Now, do 'ps -fAw | grep python' or
however you spell that on your system. You should see exactly one
mailmanctl process and exactly 8 qrunner processes with names
ArchRunner, BounceRunner, CommandRunner, IncomingRunner, NewsRunner,
OutgoingRunner, VirginRunner and RetryRunner. If this is not what you
see, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp>
for a procedure that will clean things up.

Also, are you still getting the same smtp-failure entries when Mailman
sends, and are you getting any log messages from smtplib in Mailman's
'error' log?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 27 02:10:13 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:10:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still can't send out from Mailman
In-Reply-To: <20061026233430.GA18016@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006102617101300345928716f@msapiro>

Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote:
>
>The output from /var/log/mailman/smtp-failures includes the following: 
>
>Oct 26 17:22:40 2006 (13140) delivery to patient1 at uswest.net failed with code
>-1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
>Oct 26 17:22:40 2006 (13140) delivery to patient2 at earthlink.net failed
>with code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
>Oct 26 17:22:41 2006 (13140) Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file
>descriptor, msgid:
><mailman.1.1161620763.30237.sanchiro-patients at fyrenice.com>
>Oct 26 17:27:41 2006 (13140) delivery to
>sanchiro-patients-owner at fyrenice.com failed with code -1: [Errno 9] Bad file
>descriptor
>Oct 26 17:27:42 2006 (13140) Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file
>descriptor, msgid: <mailman.0.1161751998.20463.test at www.fyrenice.com>
>Oct 26 17:27:42 2006 (13140) delivery to scott at fyrenice.com failed with code
>-1: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
>Oct 26 17:27:42 2006 (13140) Low level smtp error: [Errno 9] Bad file
>descriptor, msgid: <20061026231232.GA17574 at xmission.com>
>
>The list, with the first two lines, includes failed attempts to every one of
>the 280 or so entries on my 'sanchiro-patients' mailing list, all ending
>with the same error code. 


See the *entire* thread beginning at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-October/053942.html>

I think both you guys should be talking to Debian, and if you find a
resolution there, post it back here so we know what it is.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From charles at stremen.xs4all.nl  Fri Oct 27 17:20:43 2006
From: charles at stremen.xs4all.nl (Charles Stroom)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:20:43 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] notice to non-member submissions
Message-ID: <20061027152043.CBFE41076@corrente.localnet>

Hi all,

I am running a small mailman list and have a couple of non-member submissions 
(99.5% spam, but occasionally a genuine message from a member using an 
alternative email address) per day.  The default of mailman is "hold" and at 
the end of the day I discard them after a check.

Recently I noticed that such senders are being notified that their submission 
is being "on hold" and I would like to stop that.  Is there an option 
somewhere to do so and keeping "hold" as default?  I have been unable to find 
it.  (Mailman 2.1.6)

Charles Stroom

email: charles at stremen dot xs4all dot nl




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 27 18:00:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:00:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] notice to non-member submissions
In-Reply-To: <20061027152043.CBFE41076@corrente.localnet>
Message-ID: <PC17602006102709000500622d29e5c3@msapiro>

Charles Stroom wrote:
>
>Recently I noticed that such senders are being notified that their submission 
>is being "on hold" and I would like to stop that.  Is there an option 
>somewhere to do so and keeping "hold" as default?  I have been unable to find 
>it.  (Mailman 2.1.6)


It's respond_to_post_requests on the list's General Options page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From cmowen at att.net  Fri Oct 27 18:33:55 2006
From: cmowen at att.net (cmowen at att.net)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 16:33:55 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SPAM e-mail filtering
Message-ID: <102720061633.7486.454234F2000E049B00001D3E2160280741020A9901030C@att.net>

SPAM, as always is a hot topic and I may on the wrong forum, but...

All the addresses on the website have been picked up by spammers, and they are sending a "picture" of a message that gets by filters. I can stop the SPAM to the mailman newslist with moderation, but my problem really falls to other user address (non-maillist) that I have no way to stop. I am using Spamassin 3.1.7 and cpanel e-mail filtering is the only tools I have available. I am not sure that they even check mail directed to the list?

Can someone point me in the right direction?

I 

From phanh at canby.k12.or.us  Fri Oct 27 20:27:30 2006
From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 11:27:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate settings across multiple lists
Message-ID: <48C2DC4B-45C7-494D-9603-B426250BF2C6@canby.k12.or.us>

Hello, all

I need to create multiple listserv that have exactly the same  
settings, except the names. I'm not sure that it is possible to  
duplicate settings across multiple listserv. What's problems I may  
run into if I duplicate the settings?

Thank you very much,

Hung Phan
Network Specialist
Canby School District
1110 S Ivy Ave
Canby, OR 97013
503-266-0010




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 27 21:37:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 12:37:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate settings across multiple lists
In-Reply-To: <48C2DC4B-45C7-494D-9603-B426250BF2C6@canby.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610271237050453864743ca@msapiro>

Hung Phan wrote:
>
>I need to create multiple listserv that have exactly the same  
>settings, except the names. I'm not sure that it is possible to  
>duplicate settings across multiple listserv. What's problems I may  
>run into if I duplicate the settings?


The normal way to do this is to run 'bin/config_list -o' to write the
settings of the 'template' list to a file. Then edit that file and
remove all the list specific settings such as real_name, description,
etc. and use the resulting file to configure the other lists with
'bin/config_list -i'. See 'bin/config_list --help'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From md6969 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 27 21:39:15 2006
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 20:39:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails not writing to archive immediately
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610260459510187a043182e@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200610260459510187a043182e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45426063.2040404@gmail.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Martin Dennett wrote:
>
>   
>> I've just been mailed by one of my users to say that the archive for my 
>> list is not up to date. Having just checked prior to sending this, I 
>> found that by clicking on the "Date" link for this month, the last 
>> message written to it is nearly a week old. Downloading the Gzip'd text 
>> file (which never actually shows the correct size - any ideas?) brings 
>> me forward to only approximately 24 hours behind.
>>     
>
>
> The .txt.gz file is essentially up to date (it is only updated once
> daily when cron/nightly_gzip runs). If you remove the ".gz" from the
> URL that accesses the gzipped text, you will see the ungzipped text,
> and it should be completely up to date.
>
> Thus the problem is *not* that ArchRunner isn't running, but rather it
> is in the archiving process itself. You need to check Mailman's
> 'error' log which will contain error reports and tracebacks of the
> exception that causes the problem. Also, the messages have probably
> been placed in Mailman's 'shunt' queue and can be reprocessed for the
> archive by bin/unshunt, but the problem has to be fixed first, or they
> will just be shunted again.
>
> If you don't have access to the logs, you'll have to enlist the help of
> whoever does.
Hi Mark

You guessed correct in your last paragraph ;-)

I don't want to rock the boat with my host, seeing as I believe we're on 
borrowed time after some of the recent communications that have passed 
between us. However, things appear to have returned to normal (for now?) 
so I'll leave it be.

Martin


From paul at climbing.nl  Fri Oct 27 21:54:53 2006
From: paul at climbing.nl (Paul Gevers)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 21:54:53 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Python API
Message-ID: <4542640D.5080704@climbing.nl>

Hello,

I am working on a customized user management system created in
python/Zope. Currently I am using the bash script in mailman/bin to
communicate with Mailman, but I like to do a little bit more (which is
also possible with the "withlist" script) and in the main time speed
thinks up by python directly. However, I want to be as sure as possible
that my code does not break on software update. I tried to locate a
document with the python API, but I didn't find it.

It appears that the Mailman API is defined in MailList.py. Is this true?
How stable is this API?

With kind regards,
Paul Gevers



From charles at stremen.xs4all.nl  Fri Oct 27 22:25:38 2006
From: charles at stremen.xs4all.nl (Charles Stroom)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 22:25:38 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] notice to non-member submissions
In-Reply-To: Message from Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net> of "Fri,
	27 Oct 2006 09:00:05 PDT." <PC17602006102709000500622d29e5c3@msapiro> 
References: <PC17602006102709000500622d29e5c3@msapiro> 
Message-ID: <20061027202538.982611078@corrente.localnet>


on  Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:00:05 PDT
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Charles Stroom wrote:
> >
> >Recently I noticed that such senders are being notified that their submission 
> >is being "on hold" and I would like to stop that.  Is there an option 
> >somewhere to do so and keeping "hold" as default?  I have been unable to find 
> >it.  (Mailman 2.1.6)
> 
> 
> It's respond_to_post_requests on the list's General Options page.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 

That did it.  Many thanks

Charles




From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Oct 27 22:48:30 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:48:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate settings across multiple lists
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610271237050453864743ca@msapiro>
References: <48C2DC4B-45C7-494D-9603-B426250BF2C6@canby.k12.or.us>
	<PC1760200610271237050453864743ca@msapiro>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061027134457.07b23eb0@crimson-dragon.com>

Mark Sapiro sent the message below at 12:37 10/27/2006:
>Hung Phan wrote:
> >
> >I need to create multiple listserv that have exactly the same
> >settings, except the names. I'm not sure that it is possible to
> >duplicate settings across multiple listserv. What's problems I may
> >run into if I duplicate the settings?
>
>
>The normal way to do this is to run 'bin/config_list -o' to write the
>settings of the 'template' list to a file. Then edit that file and
>remove all the list specific settings such as real_name, description,
>etc. and use the resulting file to configure the other lists with
>'bin/config_list -i'. See 'bin/config_list --help'.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

This really seems to be a frequently recurring theme here.

I have taken it upon myself to learn Python to do another 
customization I have in mind (I want to be able to trigger external 
scripts on subscribe/unsubscribe events) and I may try to implement 
such a feature as a sort of "final project" for myself.

No promises on whether I will get this done or when it will happen if 
I do. It's not a high priority for me.

If I do choose to implement it, I will make the code available as a patch.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From barry at python.org  Fri Oct 27 23:05:42 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:05:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Python API
In-Reply-To: <4542640D.5080704@climbing.nl>
References: <4542640D.5080704@climbing.nl>
Message-ID: <461BA500-9004-4414-8C21-EDC35F6BAFBB@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Oct 27, 2006, at 3:54 PM, Paul Gevers wrote:

> I am working on a customized user management system created in
> python/Zope. Currently I am using the bash script in mailman/bin to
> communicate with Mailman, but I like to do a little bit more (which is
> also possible with the "withlist" script) and in the main time speed
> thinks up by python directly. However, I want to be as sure as  
> possible
> that my code does not break on software update. I tried to locate a
> document with the python API, but I didn't find it.
>
> It appears that the Mailman API is defined in MailList.py. Is this  
> true?
> How stable is this API?

This is probably more of a mailman-developers question, so please  
consider posting there.  In summary though, you might want to arrange  
to have the Mailman directory on your sys.path, then you can just do  
things like:

import Mailman.MailList

Other than the member adaptor, there really isn't a blessed API for  
Mailman, since there hasn't been a huge demand.  I think this should  
be improved for Mailman 2.2, but it will probably be anywhere from  
somewhat to really different than what's available in Mailman 2.1.   
What's there will not change significantly in the Mailman 2.1.x  
releases.

- -Barry

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From forrest at ce.berkeley.edu  Sat Oct 28 00:25:20 2006
From: forrest at ce.berkeley.edu (Jon Forrest)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:25:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexpected Listname When Creating New List
Message-ID: <45428750.4090408@ce.berkeley.edu>

(Mailman 2.1.9 Fedora 5)


newlist --help says:

"Note that listnames are forced to lowercase".

That doesn't seem to be true.

I just ran

	bin/newlist test

but my listinfo web page shows this as "Test".
It also shows up as "Test" in the General Options
web page.

If I look at the "Details for real name" information, it says:

"Email addresses are not case sensitive..."

I learned in Email 101 that this is not true on the left
side of "@" signs. Was my teacher playing a cruel joke on me?
In any case, I can change "Test" to "test" and all appears
well.

What's a mother to do?

Cordially,
-- 
Jon Forrest
forrest at ce.berkeley.edu
Computer Resources Manager
Civil and Environmental Engineering Dept.
305 Davis Hall
Univ. of Calif., Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720-1710
510-642-0904


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 28 00:45:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:45:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexpected Listname When Creating New List
In-Reply-To: <45428750.4090408@ce.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610271545360484f8be7068@msapiro>

Jon Forrest wrote:
>
>newlist --help says:
>
>"Note that listnames are forced to lowercase".
>
>That doesn't seem to be true.


The confusion is there are two list names. The internal list name which
is the name of the list's sub-directory in Mailman's lists/ directory,
and the name which is used in URLs referencing the list is lower case.

The real_name attribute on the list's General Options page may be mixed
case, but must be the same as the internal name except for case. A
newly created list will be given an initial real_name = to the all
lower case internal name except the first character will be Upper case
if it's a letter. This name is used in some messages and on the
listinfo page.


>I just ran
>
>	bin/newlist test
>
>but my listinfo web page shows this as "Test".
>It also shows up as "Test" in the General Options
>web page.
>
>If I look at the "Details for real name" information, it says:
>
>"Email addresses are not case sensitive..."
>
>I learned in Email 101 that this is not true on the left
>side of "@" signs. Was my teacher playing a cruel joke on me?
>In any case, I can change "Test" to "test" and all appears
>well.

Or you can leave it as "Test" or make it "TEST" if you like.

You are correct. Local parts of email addresses (left of the @) are
interpreted only by local mail delivery and may be case sensitive
although they usually aren't. If *your* MTA is case sensitive, then
your list's real_name should be all lower case to match the internal
name, but most likely, you can capitalize it any way you want to make
it pretty.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From forrest at ce.berkeley.edu  Sat Oct 28 01:53:26 2006
From: forrest at ce.berkeley.edu (Jon Forrest)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 16:53:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexpected Listname When Creating New List
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610271545360484f8be7068@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200610271545360484f8be7068@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45429BF6.9030405@ce.berkeley.edu>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> A newly created list will be given an initial real_name = to the all
> lower case internal name except the first character will be Upper case
> if it's a letter. This name is used in some messages and on the
> listinfo page.

I'm wondering what the reasoning for this is. If somebody wants
"Test" they'd create the list that way, I would think.

> You are correct. Local parts of email addresses (left of the @) are
> interpreted only by local mail delivery and may be case sensitive
> although they usually aren't. If *your* MTA is case sensitive, then
> your list's real_name should be all lower case to match the internal
> name, but most likely, you can capitalize it any way you want to make
> it pretty.

What got me worried was the signature in messages that come from my list.

It said:

	-------------------
	Test mailing list
	Test at mailman.example.com

So, given that my MTA (Postfix) is case sensitive, if somebody
replied to the email address on the last line of the signature,
the message would bounce.

Sure, I can use the web interface to change this, which I did, but
I'm still not understanding why both the internal and the other
name aren't the same by default, since this is likely the more
common case.

As always, thanks for your thoughtful replies,
Jon





From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 28 02:44:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:44:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexpected Listname When Creating New List
In-Reply-To: <45429BF6.9030405@ce.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020061027174450060916c9e353@msapiro>

Jon Forrest wrote:
>
>What got me worried was the signature in messages that come from my list.
>
>It said:
>
>	-------------------
>	Test mailing list
>	Test at mailman.example.com
>
>So, given that my MTA (Postfix) is case sensitive, if somebody
>replied to the email address on the last line of the signature,
>the message would bounce.


Are you sure your postfix aliases for Mailman are case sensitive. I
doubt it. Try mailing to test at mailman.example.com and
Test at mailman.example.com. I suspect both messages will get posted to
the list.


>Sure, I can use the web interface to change this, which I did, but
>I'm still not understanding why both the internal and the other
>name aren't the same by default, since this is likely the more
>common case.


We think the more common case is that people want the capitalization.
Look for example at <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From forrest at ce.berkeley.edu  Sat Oct 28 04:17:10 2006
From: forrest at ce.berkeley.edu (Jon Forrest)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 19:17:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexpected Listname When Creating New List
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061027174450060916c9e353@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061027174450060916c9e353@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4542BDA6.8050706@ce.berkeley.edu>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Are you sure your postfix aliases for Mailman are case sensitive. I
> doubt it. Try mailing to test at mailman.example.com and
> Test at mailman.example.com. I suspect both messages will get posted to
> the list.

You are 100% right. I did NOT know this!! All these years
of misinformation...

> 
>> Sure, I can use the web interface to change this, which I did, but
>> I'm still not understanding why both the internal and the other
>> name aren't the same by default, since this is likely the more
>> common case.
> 
> 
> We think the more common case is that people want the capitalization.
> Look for example at <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo>.

I see what you mean, although I wonder how many list administrators
are even aware of this issue.

My intuition tells me that programs shouldn't change the case
of user-supplied data unless there's a very good reason for
doing so, and it's clear that it's happening. But, you
are clearly the expert in this area.

Anyway, thanks for your help.

Jon Forrest





From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 28 04:34:52 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 19:34:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexpected Listname When Creating New List
In-Reply-To: <4542BDA6.8050706@ce.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610271934520562d07b4d46@msapiro>

Jon Forrest wrote:
>
>My intuition tells me that programs shouldn't change the case
>of user-supplied data unless there's a very good reason for
>doing so, and it's clear that it's happening. But, you
>are clearly the expert in this area.


I understand your point and it seems valid. I can't speak to the
discussions that may have taken place in deciding on current behavior
as that was all well before I joined the project.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Leo.Florendo at mvla.net  Sat Oct 28 09:25:58 2006
From: Leo.Florendo at mvla.net (Florendo, Leo)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 00:25:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bulk Subscriptions
Message-ID: <C1685416.1F2E%Leo.Florendo@mvla.net>

Is it possible to easily subscribe (or unsubscribe, or make other admin
changes to) a single email to many lists? How?

Thanks,
Leo Florendo



From jjloose at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Oct 28 15:41:33 2006
From: jjloose at yahoo.co.uk (Jon Loose)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 14:41:33 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest Options
Message-ID: <20061028134133.3110.qmail@web23003.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

I have some users who would like the digest to be
provided in a different format, which seems a logical
third option over and above Mime/Plain.  

The ideal would be a single HTML message which
combines all of the HTML/plain messages that have been
sent to the list, with attachments aggregated and
placed at the end of the combined message.  This is
something quite different than mailman does already -
but I felt it was worth raising.

An alternative might be a combination of the current
Mime/Plain options, with a single text containing all
the messages, with Mime attachments at the bottom for
any attachments to the original messages.

I have probably not described these thngs very well,
but any reflections on this would be appreciated.

With thanks,

Jon


		
___________________________________________________________ 
All New Yahoo! Mail ? Tired of Vi at gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html


From pryker at gmail.com  Sat Oct 28 16:23:25 2006
From: pryker at gmail.com (Phillip Ryker)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 10:23:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple Installations on same server...
Message-ID: <3642ecf20610280723p655a3f92xf56e4233d1e26757@mail.gmail.com>

I am trying to setup mailman to run for virtual domains on a single
server.  I have followed the information provided in the manual very
closely but am still having some issues.  I am running:

CentOS v4.4 2.6.9-42.0.3.EL
I have installed Exim from the CentOS rpm: exim-4.43-1.RHEL4.5

Before attempting the Mailman install I confirmed that email was
working properly on the server.  I have since installed Mailman-2.1.9
from source first to function as a single domain list server.  I
tested that and everything worked fine.  Now I have the following:

I have installed mailman-2.1.9 into two seperate installs as follows:

/virtual/listsrv.domain1.com/mailman
/virtual/listsrv.domain2.com/mailman

I have the follwing in httpd.conf:

<VirtualHost 72.13.xxx.xxx:80>
    ServerAdmin webmaster at domain1.com
    DocumentRoot /virtual/listsrv.domain1.com/html
    ServerName listsrv.domain1.com
    ScriptAlias /mailman "/virtual/listsrv.domain1.com/mailman/cgi-bin/"
    Alias /pipermail/ /virtual/listsrv.domain1.com/mailman/archives/public/
</VirtualHost>
<VirtualHost 72.13.xxx.xxx:80>
    ServerAdmin webmaster at domain2.com
    DocumentRoot /virtual/listsrv.domain2.com/html
    ServerName listsrv.domain2.com
    ScriptAlias /mailman "/virtual/listsrv.domain2.com/mailman/cgi-bin/"
    Alias /pipermail/ /virtual/listsrv.domain2.com/mailman/archives/public/
</VirtualHost>

I have confirmed that from the web everything works properly.  I can
create new lists and modify them, however, I cannot get the
configuration for exim to work for the multiple domain names.  Here is
what I have in my exim.conf file:

Under the main config section:

MAILMAN_USER=mailman
MAILMAN_GROUP=mailman

Under the routers section:

mailman_router:
    driver = accept
    #require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
    require_files =
/virtual/${domain}/mailman/lists/$(lc:$local_part)/config.pck
    local_part_suffix_optional
    local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
                        -confirm+* : -join : -leave : \
                        -owner : -request : -admin
    transport = mailman_transport

Under the transports:

mailman_transport:
    driver = pipe
    command = /virtual/${domain}/mailman/mail/mailman \
            ${if def:local_part_suffix \
                 {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}} \
                 {post}} \
              $local_part
    current_directory = /virtual/${domain}/mailman
    home_directory = /virtual/${domain}/mailman
    user = MAILMAN_USER
    group = MAILMAN_GROUP

When I try to run exim -bt with a valid list email I get this error:

[root at listsrv exim]# exim -bt news at listsrv.domain1.com
news at listsrv.qsurf.com cannot be resolved at this time:
  failed to expand "/virtual/${domain}/mailman/lists/${lc" for
require_files: "${lc" is not a known operator (or a } is missing in a
variable reference)

and I have a bunch of errors in my maillog as follows:

Oct 27 13:23:18 listsrv sendmail[11950]: k9RHNIFu011950:
to=pryker at domain1.com, ctladdr=pryker at listsrv.domain1.com (501/501),
delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=30470,
relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=4.3.0, stat=Deferred: 451 Temporary
local problem - please try later

I believe that my setup in the exim.conf file is not correct.  If
someone could provide some insight I would greatly appreciate the
help.  I believe the way my system is setup is right but it just seems
that the interaction between mailman and exim is broken.

Thanks

Phil


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 28 16:36:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 07:36:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bulk Subscriptions
In-Reply-To: <C1685416.1F2E%Leo.Florendo@mvla.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020061028073656031215f33fb0@msapiro>

Florendo, Leo wrote:

>Is it possible to easily subscribe (or unsubscribe, or make other admin
>changes to) a single email to many lists? How?


Many user options can be changed globally via the web options page, but
only by the user or the site admin. A list admin cannot change a
members options globally via the web.

If you have command line access, bin/remove_members can remove a member
from all lists. bin/add_members could be wrapped in a shell script to
subscribe a member to multiple lists.

If you don't have command line access, you might be able to script the
web interface to do these things. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>
for links to some examples of scripting the web interface.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 28 16:55:22 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 07:55:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest Options
In-Reply-To: <20061028134133.3110.qmail@web23003.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610280755220687818b2f45@msapiro>

Jon Loose wrote:
>
>The ideal would be a single HTML message which
>combines all of the HTML/plain messages that have been
>sent to the list, with attachments aggregated and
>placed at the end of the combined message.  This is
>something quite different than mailman does already -
>but I felt it was worth raising.
>
>An alternative might be a combination of the current
>Mime/Plain options, with a single text containing all
>the messages, with Mime attachments at the bottom for
>any attachments to the original messages.


I personally wouldn't find either of these options appealing. I hate
receiving HTML email. Additionally, all my lists allow only plain text
so there would be little advantage to an HTML digest (you could
specify color or font for message separators to make them stand out).

With either option, you don't have the ability to directly reply to
individual messages from your MUA as you do with the current MIME
digest. You have to edit the subject and body of the reply, at least
if you want it to be coherent, and you lose threading information for
the archives.

I also think that having attachments referenced by hyperlink that I can
choose to visit or not as in the current plain digest is preferable to
attaching them all at the end of the digest where I have to download
them whether I want them or not, and where I might have difficulty
knowing which attachments go with which message.

In short, it's a request that I wouldn't put any effort into
implementing unless there was overwhelming demand for it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 28 17:30:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 08:30:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple Installations on same server...
In-Reply-To: <3642ecf20610280723p655a3f92xf56e4233d1e26757@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006102808303603750f4f033b@msapiro>

Phillip Ryker wrote:
>
>I have confirmed that from the web everything works properly.  I can
>create new lists and modify them, however, I cannot get the
>configuration for exim to work for the multiple domain names.  Here is
>what I have in my exim.conf file:



This looks like the stuff from the Mailman installation manual which is
a bit lacking. The best guide is at
<http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html>.


>Under the main config section:
>
>MAILMAN_USER=mailman
>MAILMAN_GROUP=mailman
>
>Under the routers section:
>
>mailman_router:
>    driver = accept
>    #require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
>    require_files =
>/virtual/${domain}/mailman/lists/$(lc:$local_part)/config.pck


$(lc:$local_part) is syntactically incorrect and should be
${lc::$local_part}. This is the cause of your immediate issue.

The above reference recommends defining MAILMAN_HOME (or MM_HOME) as

MAILMAN_HOME=/virtual/${lc::$domain}/mailman

and effectively

require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/${lc::$local_part}/config.pck

Actually, they recommend in definitions

 MM_HOME=/virtual/${lc::$domain}/mailman
 MM_WRAP=MM_HOME/mail/mailman
 MM_LISTCHK=MM_HOME/lists/${lc::$local_part}/config.pck


and in the router

   require_files = MM_LISTCHK


>    local_part_suffix_optional
>    local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
>                        -confirm+* : -join : -leave : \
>                        -owner : -request : -admin
>    transport = mailman_transport


The above is actually incomplete, but not your immediate problem. See
the above reference.


>Under the transports:
>
>mailman_transport:
>    driver = pipe
>    command = /virtual/${domain}/mailman/mail/mailman \


Here, ${domain} should be ${lc::$domain} to be sure, or following the
above reference,

    command = MM_WRAP \

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Sat Oct 28 17:57:43 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 10:57:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SPAM e-mail filtering
In-Reply-To: <102720061633.7486.454234F2000E049B00001D3E2160280741020A9901030C@att.net>
References: <102720061633.7486.454234F2000E049B00001D3E2160280741020A9901030C@att.net>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610280857n746f2e21oa36cabd54ac1ac3c@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/27/06, cmowen at att.net <cmowen at att.net> wrote:
> SPAM, as always is a hot topic and I may on the wrong forum, but...
You are correct; this isn't the place to ask this. Try a more general
mail admin forum.

> All the addresses on the website have been picked up by spammers, and they are sending a
> "picture" of a message that gets by filters. I can stop the SPAM to the mailman newslist with
> moderation, but my problem really falls to other user address (non-maillist) that I have no way
> to stop. I am using Spamassin 3.1.7 and cpanel e-mail filtering is the only tools I have
> available. I am not sure that they even check mail directed to the list?
>
> Can someone point me in the right direction?
Without getting too into it, your best bet would probably be to switch
providers, if your current provider doesn't offer the level of support
and comptence that you need.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pryker at gmail.com  Sat Oct 28 21:02:15 2006
From: pryker at gmail.com (Phillip Ryker)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 15:02:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple Installations on same server...
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006102808303603750f4f033b@msapiro>
References: <3642ecf20610280723p655a3f92xf56e4233d1e26757@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602006102808303603750f4f033b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <3642ecf20610281202o4f13b2acycb05e8406d99cd96@mail.gmail.com>

OK,

I have used the refernece below to set everything up and now I am
getting this in my logs:

2006-10-28 14:40:49 1Gdt6v-0000tU-2A ==
tacos at listsrv.swiftnetworks.com
<tacos-request at listsrv.swiftnetworks.com> R=mailman_router
T=mailman_transport defer (2): No such file or directory: failed to
chdir to /virtual/:listsrv.swiftnetworks.com/mailman

so it appears it is placing an additional : in the directory name.
Problem is with a single colon it is not working either as the address
is not routable.  Any ideas?

Thanks

Phil



On 10/28/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Phillip Ryker wrote:
> >
> >I have confirmed that from the web everything works properly.  I can
> >create new lists and modify them, however, I cannot get the
> >configuration for exim to work for the multiple domain names.  Here is
> >what I have in my exim.conf file:
>
>
>
> This looks like the stuff from the Mailman installation manual which is
> a bit lacking. The best guide is at
> <http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html>.
>
>
> >Under the main config section:
> >
> >MAILMAN_USER=mailman
> >MAILMAN_GROUP=mailman
> >
> >Under the routers section:
> >
> >mailman_router:
> >    driver = accept
> >    #require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
> >    require_files =
> >/virtual/${domain}/mailman/lists/$(lc:$local_part)/config.pck
>
>
> $(lc:$local_part) is syntactically incorrect and should be
> ${lc::$local_part}. This is the cause of your immediate issue.
>
> The above reference recommends defining MAILMAN_HOME (or MM_HOME) as
>
> MAILMAN_HOME=/virtual/${lc::$domain}/mailman
>
> and effectively
>
> require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/${lc::$local_part}/config.pck
>
> Actually, they recommend in definitions
>
>  MM_HOME=/virtual/${lc::$domain}/mailman
>  MM_WRAP=MM_HOME/mail/mailman
>  MM_LISTCHK=MM_HOME/lists/${lc::$local_part}/config.pck
>
>
> and in the router
>
>   require_files = MM_LISTCHK
>
>
> >    local_part_suffix_optional
> >    local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
> >                        -confirm+* : -join : -leave : \
> >                        -owner : -request : -admin
> >    transport = mailman_transport
>
>
> The above is actually incomplete, but not your immediate problem. See
> the above reference.
>
>
> >Under the transports:
> >
> >mailman_transport:
> >    driver = pipe
> >    command = /virtual/${domain}/mailman/mail/mailman \
>
>
> Here, ${domain} should be ${lc::$domain} to be sure, or following the
> above reference,
>
>    command = MM_WRAP \
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From pryker at gmail.com  Sat Oct 28 21:15:40 2006
From: pryker at gmail.com (Phillip Ryker)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 15:15:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple Installations on same server...
In-Reply-To: <3642ecf20610281202o4f13b2acycb05e8406d99cd96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3642ecf20610280723p655a3f92xf56e4233d1e26757@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602006102808303603750f4f033b@msapiro>
	<3642ecf20610281202o4f13b2acycb05e8406d99cd96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3642ecf20610281215j48aee72oca984649e47846e1@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, let me be more specific:

I have this for my config file:

MM_UID=mailman
MM_GID=mailman
MM_HOME=/virtual/${lc::$domain}/mailman
MM_WRAP=MM_HOME/mail/mailman
MM_LISTCHK=MM_HOME/lists/${lc::$local_part}/config.pck
domainlist mm_domains = listsrv.domain1.com : listsrv.domain2.com
domainlist local_domains = @ : listsrv.domain1.com : listsrv.domain2.com

mailman_router:
    driver = accept
    domains = +mm_domains
    require_files = MM_LISTCHK
    local_part_suffix_optional
    local_part_suffix = -admin     : \
                        -bounces   : -bounces+* : \
                        -confirm   : -confirm+* : \
                        -join      : -leave     : \
                        -owner     : -request   : \
                        -subscribe : -unsubscribe
    transport = mailman_transport

mailman_transport:
    driver = pipe
    command = MM_WRAP \
              '${if def:local_part_suffix \
                    {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}} \
                    {post}}' \
              $local_part
    current_directory = MM_HOME
    home_directory = MM_HOME
    user = MM_UID
    group = MM_GID

and I am seeing the following in my main.log for exim:

No such file or directory: failed to chdir to
/virtual/:listsrv.swiftnetworks.com/mailman

so it appears it is placing an additional : in the directory name.
Problem is with a single colon it is not working either as the address
is not routable.  Any ideas?

Thanks

Phil


>
> On 10/28/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> > Phillip Ryker wrote:
> > >
> > >I have confirmed that from the web everything works properly.  I can
> > >create new lists and modify them, however, I cannot get the
> > >configuration for exim to work for the multiple domain names.  Here is
> > >what I have in my exim.conf file:
> >
> >
> >
> > This looks like the stuff from the Mailman installation manual which is
> > a bit lacking. The best guide is at
> > <http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html>.
> >
> >
> > >Under the main config section:
> > >
> > >MAILMAN_USER=mailman
> > >MAILMAN_GROUP=mailman
> > >
> > >Under the routers section:
> > >
> > >mailman_router:
> > >    driver = accept
> > >    #require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
> > >    require_files =
> > >/virtual/${domain}/mailman/lists/$(lc:$local_part)/config.pck
> >
> >
> > $(lc:$local_part) is syntactically incorrect and should be
> > ${lc::$local_part}. This is the cause of your immediate issue.
> >
> > The above reference recommends defining MAILMAN_HOME (or MM_HOME) as
> >
> > MAILMAN_HOME=/virtual/${lc::$domain}/mailman
> >
> > and effectively
> >
> > require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/${lc::$local_part}/config.pck
> >
> > Actually, they recommend in definitions
> >
> >  MM_HOME=/virtual/${lc::$domain}/mailman
> >  MM_WRAP=MM_HOME/mail/mailman
> >  MM_LISTCHK=MM_HOME/lists/${lc::$local_part}/config.pck
> >
> >
> > and in the router
> >
> >   require_files = MM_LISTCHK
> >
> >
> > >    local_part_suffix_optional
> > >    local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
> > >                        -confirm+* : -join : -leave : \
> > >                        -owner : -request : -admin
> > >    transport = mailman_transport
> >
> >
> > The above is actually incomplete, but not your immediate problem. See
> > the above reference.
> >
> >
> > >Under the transports:
> > >
> > >mailman_transport:
> > >    driver = pipe
> > >    command = /virtual/${domain}/mailman/mail/mailman \
> >
> >
> > Here, ${domain} should be ${lc::$domain} to be sure, or following the
> > above reference,
> >
> >    command = MM_WRAP \
> >
> > --
> > Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> > San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> >
> >
>


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Sat Oct 28 20:30:17 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 11:30:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest Options
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610280755220687818b2f45@msapiro>
References: <20061028134133.3110.qmail@web23003.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<PC1760200610280755220687818b2f45@msapiro>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061028112901.076d1478@crimson-dragon.com>

Mark Sapiro sent the message below at 07:55 AM 10/28/2006:
>Jon Loose wrote:
> >
> >The ideal would be a single HTML message which
> >combines all of the HTML/plain messages that have been
> >sent to the list, with attachments aggregated and
> >placed at the end of the combined message.  This is
> >something quite different than mailman does already -
> >but I felt it was worth raising.
> >
> >An alternative might be a combination of the current
> >Mime/Plain options, with a single text containing all
> >the messages, with Mime attachments at the bottom for
> >any attachments to the original messages.
>
>
>I personally wouldn't find either of these options appealing. I hate
>receiving HTML email. Additionally, all my lists allow only plain text
>so there would be little advantage to an HTML digest (you could
>specify color or font for message separators to make them stand out).
>
>With either option, you don't have the ability to directly reply to
>individual messages from your MUA as you do with the current MIME
>digest. You have to edit the subject and body of the reply, at least
>if you want it to be coherent, and you lose threading information for
>the archives.
>
>I also think that having attachments referenced by hyperlink that I can
>choose to visit or not as in the current plain digest is preferable to
>attaching them all at the end of the digest where I have to download
>them whether I want them or not, and where I might have difficulty
>knowing which attachments go with which message.
>
>In short, it's a request that I wouldn't put any effort into
>implementing unless there was overwhelming demand for it.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

I'm in agreement with Mark here. I find this whole idea horrifying. 
HTML is for web pages, not e-mail.

Friends don't let friends do HTML e-mail.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Oct 28 21:51:15 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 04:51:15 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Digest Options
In-Reply-To: <20061028134133.3110.qmail@web23003.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <20061028134133.3110.qmail@web23003.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <878xj02p8s.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Jon Loose writes:

 > I have some users who would like the digest to be
 > provided in a different format, which seems a logical
 > third option over and above Mime/Plain.  
 > 
 > The ideal would be a single HTML message which
 > combines all of the HTML/plain messages that have been
 > sent to the list, with attachments aggregated and
 > placed at the end of the combined message.  This is
 > something quite different than mailman does already -
 > but I felt it was worth raising.

It may *seem* logical, but I suspect that it will be the devil to
implement well.  People who want HTML are expecting pleasant
presentation.  But how you arrange that this be attractive across
personal styles, html vs. plain, etc, is non-obvious.

I think getting the presentation down would be quite difficult.


From pete at datasages.com  Sat Oct 28 22:10:37 2006
From: pete at datasages.com (Peter Kofod)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 16:10:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Accepted <password> in the header
Message-ID: <3CD2F82644A26B4CBDD478995E7FB129AA27@exchange.datasages.com>

I have an announce-only list with one member who can post.  I have it
set up so that he is not moderated, all others are moderated.
Currently, I discard moderated postings as well as non-member postings.
I want to tighten the setup a bit more so that the list owner (who is
the only non moderated user) has to send the Accepted <password>
function in the email header.  This is to prevent spoofing of the sender
email address.  How do I do this, while keeping the rest of the settings
the same?  (Discarding moderated member and non member postings).  Not
sure how to set that in the web interface and/or list_config file.

Thanks,

Pete


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 28 22:44:57 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 13:44:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple Installations on same server...
In-Reply-To: <3642ecf20610281215j48aee72oca984649e47846e1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610281344570578cbbf37db@msapiro>

Phillip Ryker wrote:

>Sorry, let me be more specific:
>
>I have this for my config file:
>
>MM_UID=mailman
>MM_GID=mailman
>MM_HOME=/virtual/${lc::$domain}/mailman
>MM_WRAP=MM_HOME/mail/mailman
>MM_LISTCHK=MM_HOME/lists/${lc::$local_part}/config.pck
>domainlist mm_domains = listsrv.domain1.com : listsrv.domain2.com
>domainlist local_domains = @ : listsrv.domain1.com : listsrv.domain2.com
>
>mailman_router:
>    driver = accept
>    domains = +mm_domains
>    require_files = MM_LISTCHK
>    local_part_suffix_optional
>    local_part_suffix = -admin     : \
>                        -bounces   : -bounces+* : \
>                        -confirm   : -confirm+* : \
>                        -join      : -leave     : \
>                        -owner     : -request   : \
>                        -subscribe : -unsubscribe
>    transport = mailman_transport
>
>mailman_transport:
>    driver = pipe
>    command = MM_WRAP \
>              '${if def:local_part_suffix \
>                    {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}} \
>                    {post}}' \
>              $local_part
>    current_directory = MM_HOME
>    home_directory = MM_HOME
>    user = MM_UID
>    group = MM_GID
>
>and I am seeing the following in my main.log for exim:
>
>No such file or directory: failed to chdir to
>/virtual/:listsrv.swiftnetworks.com/mailman
>
>so it appears it is placing an additional : in the directory name.
>Problem is with a single colon it is not working either as the address
>is not routable.  Any ideas?


Your initial problem with the unroutable address was that you had
parentheses '()' and not braces '{}' in $(lc:$local_part).

Actually, ${lc::$...} is wrong and the exim how to should be corrected.
You should have single ':' and not double '::' in constructs like
${lc:$...}. See
<http://www.exim.org/exim-html-4.63/doc/html/spec_html/ch11.html#SECTexpansionitems>.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pryker at gmail.com  Sat Oct 28 23:07:09 2006
From: pryker at gmail.com (Phillip Ryker)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 17:07:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple Installations on same server...
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610281344570578cbbf37db@msapiro>
References: <3642ecf20610281215j48aee72oca984649e47846e1@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200610281344570578cbbf37db@msapiro>
Message-ID: <3642ecf20610281407i5c3fb3c2kedb765fbad489871@mail.gmail.com>

I hear what you are saying.  I changed it to braces instead of
parentheses and got the same error message:

[root at listsrv exim]# exim -bt tacos at listsrv.swiftnetworks.com
tacos at listsrv.swiftnetworks.com cannot be resolved at this time:
  failed to expand "/virtual/${lc" for require_files: "${lc" is not a
known operator (or a } is missing in a variable reference)

So, then I found this which seems to be more up-to-date:

<http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html>.

and it recommended the following:

MM_UID=mailman
MM_GID=mailman
MM_HOME=/virtual/${lc::$domain}/mailman
MM_WRAP=MM_HOME/mail/mailman
MM_LISTCHK=MM_HOME/lists/${lc::$local_part}/config.pck

mailman_router:
    driver = accept
    domains = +mm_domains
    require_files = MM_LISTCHK
    local_part_suffix_optional
    local_part_suffix = -admin     : \
                        -bounces   : -bounces+* : \
                        -confirm   : -confirm+* : \
                        -join      : -leave     : \
                        -owner     : -request   : \
                        -subscribe : -unsubscribe
    transport = mailman_transport

mailman_transport:
    driver = pipe
    command = MM_WRAP \
              '${if def:local_part_suffix \
                    {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}} \
                    {post}}' \
              $local_part
    current_directory = MM_HOME
    home_directory = MM_HOME
    user = MM_UID
    group = MM_GID

I tried that and now exim -bt returns with the right response.
However, I am getting the following in my logs:

No such file or directory: failed to chdir to
/virtual/:listsrv.domain1.com/mailman

so it is now pritning that extra colon.  When I remove it I get errors
when running exim -bt.  When I add it I get errors in the logfiles as
above.  I am at a lost.  I know others are running multiple installs
but I just cannot seem to get past this.

Am I missing something obvious?

Thanks

Phil



On 10/28/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Phillip Ryker wrote:
>
> >Sorry, let me be more specific:
> >
> >I have this for my config file:
> >
> >MM_UID=mailman
> >MM_GID=mailman
> >MM_HOME=/virtual/${lc::$domain}/mailman
> >MM_WRAP=MM_HOME/mail/mailman
> >MM_LISTCHK=MM_HOME/lists/${lc::$local_part}/config.pck
> >domainlist mm_domains = listsrv.domain1.com : listsrv.domain2.com
> >domainlist local_domains = @ : listsrv.domain1.com : listsrv.domain2.com
> >
> >mailman_router:
> >    driver = accept
> >    domains = +mm_domains
> >    require_files = MM_LISTCHK
> >    local_part_suffix_optional
> >    local_part_suffix = -admin     : \
> >                        -bounces   : -bounces+* : \
> >                        -confirm   : -confirm+* : \
> >                        -join      : -leave     : \
> >                        -owner     : -request   : \
> >                        -subscribe : -unsubscribe
> >    transport = mailman_transport
> >
> >mailman_transport:
> >    driver = pipe
> >    command = MM_WRAP \
> >              '${if def:local_part_suffix \
> >                    {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}} \
> >                    {post}}' \
> >              $local_part
> >    current_directory = MM_HOME
> >    home_directory = MM_HOME
> >    user = MM_UID
> >    group = MM_GID
> >
> >and I am seeing the following in my main.log for exim:
> >
> >No such file or directory: failed to chdir to
> >/virtual/:listsrv.swiftnetworks.com/mailman
> >
> >so it appears it is placing an additional : in the directory name.
> >Problem is with a single colon it is not working either as the address
> >is not routable.  Any ideas?
>
>
> Your initial problem with the unroutable address was that you had
> parentheses '()' and not braces '{}' in $(lc:$local_part).
>
> Actually, ${lc::$...} is wrong and the exim how to should be corrected.
> You should have single ':' and not double '::' in constructs like
> ${lc:$...}. See
> <http://www.exim.org/exim-html-4.63/doc/html/spec_html/ch11.html#SECTexpansionitems>.
>
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 28 23:13:19 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 14:13:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Accepted <password> in the header
In-Reply-To: <3CD2F82644A26B4CBDD478995E7FB129AA27@exchange.datasages.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006102814131907180e870301@msapiro>

Peter Kofod wrote:

>I have an announce-only list with one member who can post.  I have it
>set up so that he is not moderated, all others are moderated.
>Currently, I discard moderated postings as well as non-member postings.
>I want to tighten the setup a bit more so that the list owner (who is
>the only non moderated user) has to send the Accepted <password>
>function in the email header.  This is to prevent spoofing of the sender
>email address.  How do I do this, while keeping the rest of the settings
>the same?  (Discarding moderated member and non member postings).  Not
>sure how to set that in the web interface and/or list_config file.


All you need to do in the web interface is to set the authorized poster
to 'moderated' along with everyone else.

You don't need to do anything special to enable the use of the

Approved: password

header. That is always available. Note that the name of the header is
Approved: or Approve:, not Accepted:, and password is either the
list's admin password or the list's moderator password.

Use of the Approved: header with correct password bypasses all tests
for holding, rejecting, discarding or accepting messages except for
Privacy options...->Spam filters->header_filter_rules and the
mm_cfg.py setting for KNOWN_SPAMMERS.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 28 23:34:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 14:34:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple Installations on same server...
In-Reply-To: <3642ecf20610281407i5c3fb3c2kedb765fbad489871@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610281434380875c452fad1@msapiro>

Phillip Ryker wrote:
>
>I tried that and now exim -bt returns with the right response.
>However, I am getting the following in my logs:
>
>No such file or directory: failed to chdir to
>/virtual/:listsrv.domain1.com/mailman
>
>so it is now pritning that extra colon.  When I remove it I get errors
>when running exim -bt.  When I add it I get errors in the logfiles as
>above.  I am at a lost.  I know others are running multiple installs
>but I just cannot seem to get past this.


I am recalling that there is an issue having to do with macro expansion
in Exim that required the colon to be doubled in macro definitions,
but not in directives or something like that. There is a thread on
this beginning at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-January/048428.html>
in the archives, but unfortunately, it doesn't get to a definitive
resolution.

You could try some of the suggestions in that thread, or you could try
just frogetting the macros and repeating the strings themselves
everywhere use with single colons.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pete at datasages.com  Sat Oct 28 23:51:09 2006
From: pete at datasages.com (Peter Kofod)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 17:51:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Accepted <password> in the header
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006102814131907180e870301@msapiro>
Message-ID: <3CD2F82644A26B4CBDD478995E7FB129AA2B@exchange.datasages.com>

I was wondering if it was possible to distinguish between the list
moderator and everyone else so that the moderator's message would be
authenticated immediately, whereas everyone else would get discarded, as
opposed to having be discarded manually?

Pete 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 5:13 PM
To: Peter Kofod; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Accepted <password> in the header

Peter Kofod wrote:

>I have an announce-only list with one member who can post.  I have it 
>set up so that he is not moderated, all others are moderated.
>Currently, I discard moderated postings as well as non-member postings.
>I want to tighten the setup a bit more so that the list owner (who is 
>the only non moderated user) has to send the Accepted <password> 
>function in the email header.  This is to prevent spoofing of the 
>sender email address.  How do I do this, while keeping the rest of the 
>settings the same?  (Discarding moderated member and non member 
>postings).  Not sure how to set that in the web interface and/or
list_config file.


All you need to do in the web interface is to set the authorized poster
to 'moderated' along with everyone else.

You don't need to do anything special to enable the use of the

Approved: password

header. That is always available. Note that the name of the header is
Approved: or Approve:, not Accepted:, and password is either the list's
admin password or the list's moderator password.

Use of the Approved: header with correct password bypasses all tests for
holding, rejecting, discarding or accepting messages except for Privacy
options...->Spam filters->header_filter_rules and the mm_cfg.py setting
for KNOWN_SPAMMERS.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pryker at gmail.com  Sun Oct 29 00:22:28 2006
From: pryker at gmail.com (Phillip Ryker)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 18:22:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple installations on same server with Exim4
	and mailman
Message-ID: <3642ecf20610281522t7a348c9dm45d1cf41c60efed0@mail.gmail.com>

I would like to inquire whether or not anyone has successfully setup
multiple installations of mailman-2.1.9 and exim4 on the same server.
If you have would it be possible to see a copy of your exim.conf?  I
have tried everything I can think of and believe I have run up against
some issues I cannot get around.

Anyone have this actually working?

Thanks

Phil


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 29 00:25:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 15:25:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Accepted <password> in the header
In-Reply-To: <3CD2F82644A26B4CBDD478995E7FB129AA2B@exchange.datasages.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610281525270625ef81280c@msapiro>

Peter Kofod wrote:

>I was wondering if it was possible to distinguish between the list
>moderator and everyone else so that the moderator's message would be
>authenticated immediately, whereas everyone else would get discarded, as
>opposed to having be discarded manually?


Only if the moderator is also a list member and then by setting the
modreator as 'unmoderated' and everyone else as moderated, but that is
what I thought you were trying to avoid in order to prevent posting by
spoofing the moderators address.

That is what the Approved: header is for.

If by "distinguish between the list moderator and everyone else" you
mean that the list moderator knows the moderator password and is able
to pre-approve her posts via the Approved: header, then yes, that's
how you do it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pete at datasages.com  Sun Oct 29 00:27:54 2006
From: pete at datasages.com (Peter Kofod)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 18:27:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Performance on mailman
Message-ID: <3CD2F82644A26B4CBDD478995E7FB129AA2C@exchange.datasages.com>

I am doing something wrong.  I am running mailman with about 100 lists
(announce only).  A couple are pretty big (40K + addresses).  They,
however, are used infrequently.  The big list has one weekly mailing and
the others much less often.  Currently, there is NO mail queued or being
sent (tail -f on maillog is silent), yet doing a top on the mailman
process shows mailman consuming 1240M of virtual memory and a task size
(RES) of 811M.

I am no Linux Performance Tuning expert, but the system seems pretty
pokey.  This is with no mail going out (and the occasional subscribe /
unsubscribe trickling in).

When a mailing goes out, the system becomes virtually unresponsive,
usually resulting in a http 500 error.  If ssh in to the system, I am
eventually able to kill mailman, at which time the system perks right up
again.  System is a P4 with 1 GB of RAM.

Mailman 2.19rc1


What am I missing?

Thanks,

pete


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 29 01:43:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 16:43:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple installations on same server with
	Exim4and mailman
In-Reply-To: <3642ecf20610281522t7a348c9dm45d1cf41c60efed0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610281643100046439eefd8@msapiro>

Phillip Ryker wrote:

>I would like to inquire whether or not anyone has successfully setup
>multiple installations of mailman-2.1.9 and exim4 on the same server.
>If you have would it be possible to see a copy of your exim.conf?  I
>have tried everything I can think of and believe I have run up against
>some issues I cannot get around.
>
>Anyone have this actually working?


Yes, I played with it and I got it working in a limited test
environment.

Here's the issue. The instruction at
<http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html#virdom> is wrong! The
problem is that some stuff is defined in one or more macros with
doubled colons, but the colons only need to be doubled in one of the
places where the macros are used and not in others. This is because
one of the places where the macros are used is a list, and the default
list delimiter is ':' so other colons have to be doubled in lists only.

The solution is to define the macros with single colons and to change
the list delimiter in the line that uses a list argument (only
require_files).

i.e.

MM_UID=mailman
MM_GID=mailman
MM_HOME=/virtual/${lc:$domain}/mailman
MM_WRAP=MM_HOME/mail/mailman
MM_LISTCHK=MM_HOME/lists/${lc:$local_part}/config.pck

mailman_router:
    driver = accept
    domains = +mm_domains
    require_files = <; MM_LISTCHK
    local_part_suffix_optional
    local_part_suffix = -admin     : \
                        -bounces   : -bounces+* : \
                        -confirm   : -confirm+* : \
                        -join      : -leave     : \
                        -owner     : -request   : \
                        -subscribe : -unsubscribe
    transport = mailman_transport

mailman_transport:
    driver = pipe
    command = MM_WRAP \
              '${if def:local_part_suffix \
                    {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}} \
                    {post}}' \
              $local_part
    current_directory = MM_HOME
    home_directory = MM_HOME
    user = MM_UID
    group = MM_GID



Alternatively, instead of

    require_files = <; MM_LISTCHK

I think you could have

    require_files = MM_LISTCHK

if you had

MM_LISTCHK=<; MM_HOME/lists/${lc:$local_part}/config.pck

where MM_HOME also has a single colon, although I didn't test that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 29 02:05:02 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 17:05:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Performance on mailman
In-Reply-To: <3CD2F82644A26B4CBDD478995E7FB129AA2C@exchange.datasages.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610281705020078ac6fb890@msapiro>

Peter Kofod wrote:

>I am doing something wrong.  I am running mailman with about 100 lists
>(announce only).  A couple are pretty big (40K + addresses).  They,
>however, are used infrequently.  The big list has one weekly mailing and
>the others much less often.  Currently, there is NO mail queued or being
>sent (tail -f on maillog is silent), yet doing a top on the mailman
>process shows mailman consuming 1240M of virtual memory and a task size
>(RES) of 811M.


See article 4.56 in the FAQ


>I am no Linux Performance Tuning expert, but the system seems pretty
>pokey.  This is with no mail going out (and the occasional subscribe /
>unsubscribe trickling in).
>
>When a mailing goes out, the system becomes virtually unresponsive,
>usually resulting in a http 500 error.  If ssh in to the system, I am
>eventually able to kill mailman, at which time the system perks right up
>again.  System is a P4 with 1 GB of RAM.
>
>Mailman 2.19rc1


You will find some information by going to the FAQ wizard

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

and searching for performance. Article 4.56 will be one of the 16 hits.
Not all the others will be relevant, but there is good information
there.

I suspect (but it's only a suspicion) that during your 'unresponsive'
times, the thing that's going on is SMTP delivery of the message from
Mailman to the MTA. Tuning the MTA per the suggestions in the FAQ may
help. In particular, if the MTA is doing DNS verification of
recipients from Mailman, that's a real killer. There are suggestions
in FAQ 4.11.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Oct 29 03:21:28 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 21:21:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest Options
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610280755220687818b2f45@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200610280755220687818b2f45@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240500c169bf28dd96@[10.0.1.11]>

At 7:55 AM -0700 10/28/06, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  In short, it's a request that I wouldn't put any effort into
>  implementing unless there was overwhelming demand for it.

There's a much more basic problem -- you'd have to parse the 
MIME/HTML bodyparts of each of the messages being submitted, convert 
them to some sort of canonical form, and then wrap them in a larger 
MIME/HTML message.  It's hard enough to understand the formatting 
used by a single MUA, it's quite another to have to be able to 
understand the formatting used by all MUAs.

You might be able to get say 70-80% of the way there with a single 
MUA, but I don't think you could hope to achieve even 50% success 
with a wide variety of MUAs.

I would not be at all surprised if it's basically impossible to 
perform this task, at least to any kind of moderately adequate level.


This is the equivalent of being able to write a program that can 
understand all spoken/written human languages, convert them to a 
single canonical form, and then put them all together into a single 
volume.

I don't know if you've ever seen Babelfish or other automated 
translation tools, but let's just say that, even on their best day, 
they are only barely adequate for the simplest of translations 
between the most common of languages.  You wouldn't want to try to 
run the United Nations using such tools.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From pryker at gmail.com  Sun Oct 29 13:55:25 2006
From: pryker at gmail.com (Phillip Ryker)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 07:55:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Multiple installations on same server with
	Exim4and mailman
In-Reply-To: <3642ecf20610290454n77692729v16d6f3585bedfc48@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3642ecf20610281522t7a348c9dm45d1cf41c60efed0@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200610281643100046439eefd8@msapiro>
	<3642ecf20610290454n77692729v16d6f3585bedfc48@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3642ecf20610290455t2bf486ebg33880db8b987b2f8@mail.gmail.com>

Mark,

That was it!  The <; did it.  Thank you very much for the support.  I
am temtped to write up a tutorial on how to do this since I already
have everything documented I have gone through.  The mailman docs are
outdated.

Thanks so much!!

Phil

On 10/28/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Phillip Ryker wrote:
>
> >I would like to inquire whether or not anyone has successfully setup
> >multiple installations of mailman-2.1.9 and exim4 on the same server.
> >If you have would it be possible to see a copy of your exim.conf?  I
> >have tried everything I can think of and believe I have run up against
> >some issues I cannot get around.
> >
> >Anyone have this actually working?
>
>
> Yes, I played with it and I got it working in a limited test
> environment.
>
> Here's the issue. The instruction at
> <http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html#virdom> is wrong! The
> problem is that some stuff is defined in one or more macros with
> doubled colons, but the colons only need to be doubled in one of the
> places where the macros are used and not in others. This is because
> one of the places where the macros are used is a list, and the default
> list delimiter is ':' so other colons have to be doubled in lists only.
>
> The solution is to define the macros with single colons and to change
> the list delimiter in the line that uses a list argument (only
> require_files).
>
> i.e.
>
> MM_UID=mailman
> MM_GID=mailman
> MM_HOME=/virtual/${lc:$domain}/mailman
> MM_WRAP=MM_HOME/mail/mailman
> MM_LISTCHK=MM_HOME/lists/${lc:$local_part}/config.pck
>
> mailman_router:
>    driver = accept
>    domains = +mm_domains
>    require_files = <; MM_LISTCHK
>    local_part_suffix_optional
>    local_part_suffix = -admin     : \
>                        -bounces   : -bounces+* : \
>                        -confirm   : -confirm+* : \
>                        -join      : -leave     : \
>                        -owner     : -request   : \
>                        -subscribe : -unsubscribe
>    transport = mailman_transport
>
> mailman_transport:
>    driver = pipe
>    command = MM_WRAP \
>              '${if def:local_part_suffix \
>                    {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}} \
>                    {post}}' \
>              $local_part
>    current_directory = MM_HOME
>    home_directory = MM_HOME
>    user = MM_UID
>    group = MM_GID
>
>
>
> Alternatively, instead of
>
>    require_files = <; MM_LISTCHK
>
> I think you could have
>
>    require_files = MM_LISTCHK
>
> if you had
>
> MM_LISTCHK=<; MM_HOME/lists/${lc:$local_part}/config.pck
>
> where MM_HOME also has a single colon, although I didn't test that.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From barry at python.org  Sun Oct 29 13:58:27 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 07:58:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest Options
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061028112901.076d1478@crimson-dragon.com>
References: <20061028134133.3110.qmail@web23003.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<PC1760200610280755220687818b2f45@msapiro>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20061028112901.076d1478@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <3FCF2E02-47A7-4FCE-8DE7-8D1BFE80B351@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Oct 28, 2006, at 2:30 PM, Dragon wrote:

> I'm in agreement with Mark here. I find this whole idea horrifying.
> HTML is for web pages, not e-mail.
>
> Friends don't let friends do HTML e-mail.

I'm by no means a fan of HTML email either, but /if/ we were to  
support it (a big if I might add), then the model I'd work from would  
be the daw-mac mailing list, which is IIRC run on yahoogroups.  It's  
not have bad even though it's laden with JavaScript.  You get a  
hyperlinked summary and clicking on each link does some JS magic to  
pop you to the message below.

Don't take the above as an endorsement of HTML digests, and there  
will always be standards-compliant plain text digests in Mailman.   
I'm just saying that there's at least one not so horrible (IMO)  
example out in the wild.

BTW, I think another possible digest style option would be one where  
the messages are not actually included in the digest, but the  
summaries (and perhaps some content excerpt) would be linked to the  
messages in the archives.  We've talked about that for a long time too.

- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)

iQCVAwUBRUSleXEjvBPtnXfVAQKn7AP/WOhtQPQulvxMajaA0whkkD07yb/B2uLI
nE6lNmXmTmC7vNeWwQxG8RnXFPVB7RBeqG6txFoJL82lu9vcppRuoGQXxkYZQn1E
vFteJT4xLwZRO+MIs8JyFZpFFHBk4lyhXlVi5kbLfsXgXe1boJ+hTmOMhtkNWBGM
AGtHBTT2AFk=
=+kIg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 29 15:59:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 06:59:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Multiple installations on same server
	withExim4and mailman
In-Reply-To: <3642ecf20610290455t2bf486ebg33880db8b987b2f8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006102906594905930c78df62@msapiro>

Phillip Ryker wrote:
>
>That was it!  The <; did it.  Thank you very much for the support.  I
>am temtped to write up a tutorial on how to do this since I already
>have everything documented I have gone through.  The mailman docs are
>outdated.


A tutorial would make a great addition to the FAQ.

We recognize some of our docs are lacking. We try to keep up, but it's
not easy :-)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists at norrbring.se  Sun Oct 29 16:05:58 2006
From: lists at norrbring.se (Anders Norrbring)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 16:05:58 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to move a list from 2.1.2
Message-ID: <4544C356.1080901@norrbring.se>

I have a bunch of lists that resides on an old 2.1.2 installation.. I 
want to move these to a newer machine with Mailman v2.1.7.
I'd like to move both lists and archives.

On the mailman web site, a script called "move_list" is mentioned, but 
that script doesn't exist on any of my systems...

Tips and hints are welcome!
-- 

Anders Norrbring
Norrbring Consulting

From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 29 16:57:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 07:57:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to move a list from 2.1.2
In-Reply-To: <4544C356.1080901@norrbring.se>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610290757080859ed83dd03@msapiro>

Anders Norrbring wrote:
>
>I have a bunch of lists that resides on an old 2.1.2 installation.. I 
>want to move these to a newer machine with Mailman v2.1.7.
>I'd like to move both lists and archives.
>
>On the mailman web site, a script called "move_list" is mentioned, but 
>that script doesn't exist on any of my systems...

The move_list script was for Mailman 2.0.x. It is not in Mailman 2.1.x.

The process is fairly straightforward, but it is complicated a bit if
the domain names for web access and/or email are different on the new
machine. There are many discussions of this in the archives of this
list and there is a FAQ at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp>
but it too is out of date.

The basic procedure assuming domain names change is the following:

1) move the lists/listname/ directory and contents for each list.
2) move the archives/private/listname.mbox/ directory and
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file for each list.
3) run fix_url on each list to update its host_name and hidden
web_page_url attributes. fix_url runs under bin/withlist. Run
bin/fix_url.py for instructions.
4) run bin/arch on each list to build the archives with correct links
to the listinfo page.

If domain names don't change, you can skip steps 3 and 4 and add to
step 2 - move the archives/private/listname directory and it's
contents for each list. You don't need to move the archives/public
stuff as it is checked and created/deleted as necessary each time the
list is accessed.

Mailman will automatically update the list data as needed from 2.1.2 to
2.1.7 when the list is accessed.

The above assumes there aren't held messages. If there are, they should
be dealt with on the old machine before the move. Also, if there is
the possibility of incoming posts during the move, it is a good idea
to stop the MTAs to keep things from hitting Mailman during the move.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists at norrbring.se  Sun Oct 29 17:26:17 2006
From: lists at norrbring.se (Anders Norrbring)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 17:26:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to move a list from 2.1.2
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610290757080859ed83dd03@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200610290757080859ed83dd03@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4544D629.1070904@norrbring.se>

Thanks Mark,
A very easy to go by description! I was thinking in these lines, but 
wanted to check first.

Again, thanks.
Anders.


Mark Sapiro skrev:
> Anders Norrbring wrote:
>> I have a bunch of lists that resides on an old 2.1.2 installation.. I 
>> want to move these to a newer machine with Mailman v2.1.7.
>> I'd like to move both lists and archives.
>>
>> On the mailman web site, a script called "move_list" is mentioned, but 
>> that script doesn't exist on any of my systems...
> 
> The move_list script was for Mailman 2.0.x. It is not in Mailman 2.1.x.
> 
> The process is fairly straightforward, but it is complicated a bit if
> the domain names for web access and/or email are different on the new
> machine. There are many discussions of this in the archives of this
> list and there is a FAQ at
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp>
> but it too is out of date.
> 
> The basic procedure assuming domain names change is the following:
> 
> 1) move the lists/listname/ directory and contents for each list.
> 2) move the archives/private/listname.mbox/ directory and
> archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file for each list.
> 3) run fix_url on each list to update its host_name and hidden
> web_page_url attributes. fix_url runs under bin/withlist. Run
> bin/fix_url.py for instructions.
> 4) run bin/arch on each list to build the archives with correct links
> to the listinfo page.
> 
> If domain names don't change, you can skip steps 3 and 4 and add to
> step 2 - move the archives/private/listname directory and it's
> contents for each list. You don't need to move the archives/public
> stuff as it is checked and created/deleted as necessary each time the
> list is accessed.
> 
> Mailman will automatically update the list data as needed from 2.1.2 to
> 2.1.7 when the list is accessed.
> 
> The above assumes there aren't held messages. If there are, they should
> be dealt with on the old machine before the move. Also, if there is
> the possibility of incoming posts during the move, it is a good idea
> to stop the MTAs to keep things from hitting Mailman during the move.
> 

From pete at datasages.com  Sun Oct 29 17:26:19 2006
From: pete at datasages.com (Peter Kofod)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 11:26:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Performance on mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200610281705020078ac6fb890@msapiro>
Message-ID: <3CD2F82644A26B4CBDD478995E7FB129AA34@exchange.datasages.com>

 I checked out the article in 4.56.  Here is the output from my vmstat 1
20

procs -----------memory---------- ---swap-- -----io---- --system--
----cpu----
 r  b   swpd   free   buff  cache   si   so    bi    bo   in    cs us sy
id wa
 0  5 1910632  14280   1552  15020    7    4     2     6    3     2  0
1 65 34
 2  5 1909864  14716   1544  14708 3204    0  3204     0  523   389  0
1 50 49
 1  5 1908948  15160   1540  14992 3348    0  3348     0  541   453  0
3 50 47
 0  5 1907980  15612   1536  15056 3308    0  3308    60  533   421  0
0 48 51
 0  5 1907048  15848   1508  14716 3460    0  3460     0  572   445  0
2 50 49
 0  5 1905916  15652   1500  14768 3760    0  3760     0  568   446  0
2 50 49
 0  5 1905092  15672   1460  14620 3344    0  3344     0  571   423  0
1 50 49
 0  5 1904052  15716   1448  14268 3684    0  3684     0  575   442  0
1 50 49
 0  5 1903164  15780   1420  14252 3544    0  3544    20  580   449  0
1 50 49
 0  5 1902252  15804   1412  14100 3668    0  3668     0  563   434  0
2 50 48
 0  5 1901120  15712   1384  13968 3968    0  3968     0  575   499  0
1  3 95
 1  4 1900200  15852   1360  13620 3544    0  3544     0  543   417  0
1  0 99
 0  5 1899268  16228   1356  13568 3372    0  3372     0  544   429  0
1  0 99
 0  5 1898176  16376   1332  13304 3616    0  3616    20  538   440  0
2  0 98
 0  5 1897176  16416   1324  13176 3536    0  3536     0  551   440  0
2  0 98
 0  5 1896096  16600   1304  13104 3536    0  3536     0  547   424  0
1  0 100
 0  5 1895260  13388   1304  13212 3328    0  3328     0  533   427  0
2  0 98
 0  5 1894132  16460   1256  12756 4132    0  4132     0  600   462  0
2  0 99
 0  5 1893040  16188   1208  12776 3620    0  3620    20  582   477  0
2  0 98
 0  5 1892100  15132   1144  12612 3820    0  3820     0  554   456  0
1  0 99


My blocks in (bi) and swap in (si) seem very high compared to what the
FAQ says.  Furthermore, It looks like a lot of the processes are in a
wait state (far right), if I read this correctly.

Anyone have a clue what I did wrong?

Pete


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 8:05 PM
To: Peter Kofod; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Performance on mailman

Peter Kofod wrote:

>I am doing something wrong.  I am running mailman with about 100 lists 
>(announce only).  A couple are pretty big (40K + addresses).  They, 
>however, are used infrequently.  The big list has one weekly mailing 
>and the others much less often.  Currently, there is NO mail queued or 
>being sent (tail -f on maillog is silent), yet doing a top on the 
>mailman process shows mailman consuming 1240M of virtual memory and a 
>task size
>(RES) of 811M.


See article 4.56 in the FAQ


>I am no Linux Performance Tuning expert, but the system seems pretty 
>pokey.  This is with no mail going out (and the occasional subscribe / 
>unsubscribe trickling in).
>
>When a mailing goes out, the system becomes virtually unresponsive, 
>usually resulting in a http 500 error.  If ssh in to the system, I am 
>eventually able to kill mailman, at which time the system perks right 
>up again.  System is a P4 with 1 GB of RAM.
>
>Mailman 2.19rc1


You will find some information by going to the FAQ wizard

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

and searching for performance. Article 4.56 will be one of the 16 hits.
Not all the others will be relevant, but there is good information
there.

I suspect (but it's only a suspicion) that during your 'unresponsive'
times, the thing that's going on is SMTP delivery of the message from
Mailman to the MTA. Tuning the MTA per the suggestions in the FAQ may
help. In particular, if the MTA is doing DNS verification of recipients
from Mailman, that's a real killer. There are suggestions in FAQ 4.11.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Oct 29 21:33:13 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 14:33:13 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to move a list from 2.1.2
In-Reply-To: <4544C356.1080901@norrbring.se>
References: <4544C356.1080901@norrbring.se>
Message-ID: <p06240500c16ac049217f@[10.0.1.11]>

At 4:05 PM +0100 10/29/06, Anders Norrbring wrote:

>  I have a bunch of lists that resides on an old 2.1.2 installation.
>  I want to move these to a newer machine with Mailman v2.1.7.

Keep in mind that 2.1.7 has been superceded by 2.1.8 and now 2.1.9. 
I believe that there may be some serious security issues with the 
older code, and would recommend that you upgrade to the current 
version as opposed to 2.1.7.

The upgrade steps should be the same, the only thing that will differ 
is the version of Mailman.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Oct 29 22:01:12 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 15:01:12 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Performance on mailman
In-Reply-To: <3CD2F82644A26B4CBDD478995E7FB129AA34@exchange.datasages.com>
References: <3CD2F82644A26B4CBDD478995E7FB129AA34@exchange.datasages.com>
Message-ID: <p06240501c16ac0b139df@[10.0.1.11]>

At 11:26 AM -0500 10/29/06, Peter Kofod wrote:


>  My blocks in (bi) and swap in (si) seem very high compared to what the
>  FAQ says.  Furthermore, It looks like a lot of the processes are in a
>  wait state (far right), if I read this correctly.

The Linux box you are comparing to in that FAQ entry is not doing a 
whole lot at that point, even though it's the main mail server for 
python.org.

You're seeing lots of swap-ins, but then *nix type OSes are usually 
demand-paged (i.e., stuff isn't loaded into memory until it's 
needed), so on a busy server a lot of swap-ins could be perfectly 
normal.  Your blocks-in is also higher than shown for that server, 
because your machine is busier for that period of time.

>  Anyone have a clue what I did wrong?

I'm not at all convinced that you've done anything wrong.  You're not 
seeing any swap-outs (so) although you don't have much buffer or 
cache in use, so it looks to me like you might be seeing some memory 
pressure but not enough to cause swapouts.  You are seeing high 
block-in rates and low block-out rates, which implies that the system 
is working to read everything in but is not yet outputting much 
information.

As comparison, here's what the main mail server for python.org looks 
like right now:

% vmstat 1 20
procs -----------memory---------- ---swap-- -----io---- --system-- ----cpu----
  r  b   swpd   free   buff  cache   si   so    bi    bo   in    cs us sy id wa
  0  2 975916  32988 140552 920632    0    0     1     1    0     1 22 12 66  0
  0  0 975916  32792 140560 920752    0    0   144   556  647  1015  4  1 95  0
  0  0 975916  31928 140560 920820    0    0    64     0 1150   724  3  2 94  0
  1  0 975916  31764 140568 920832    0    0    16     0  694   523  2  1 97  0
  0  0 975916  32508 140572 920852    0    0     8   672 1243  1068  5  3 92  0
  0  0 975916  31192 140584 920844    0    0     0   400  550   834  7  3 90  0
  0  0 975916  31064 140588 920852    0    0     8     0  403   593  3  1 96  0
  0  0 975916  30892 140588 920856    0    0     0     0  447   594  3  1 96  0
  0  0 975916  30868 140588 920860    0    0     0     0  463   779  3  1 95  0
  0  0 975916  30656 140592 920956    0    0    92     0  417   503  3  1 96  0
  0  0 975916  30192 140616 920980    0    0    24   416  370   518  4  1 95  0
  0  0 975916  30176 140616 920992    0    0     0   256  364   570  3  1 96  0
  1  0 975916  30128 140620 920992    0    0     4     0  292   375  1  1 97  0
  0  0 975916  30120 140620 920996    0    0     0     0  350   665  1  1 98  0
  0  0 975916  30072 140620 921000    0    0     4     0  282   439  2  2 96  0
  0  0 975916  30004 140636 921020    0    0    16   780  237   494  4  2 94  0
  0  0 975916  29892 140636 921024    0    0     4     0  235   325  3  0 97  0
  0  0 975916  30012 140640 921040    0    0    20     0  322   497  3  2 95  0
  0  0 975916  29984 140648 921056    0    0    20     0  360   666  3  1 96  0
  0  0 975916  30036 140656 921128    0    0    80   116  410   791  3  1 95  0

And here's what vmstat looks like when given the "-a" argument:
% vmstat -a 1 20
procs -----------memory---------- ---swap-- -----io---- --system-- ----cpu----
  r  b   swpd   free  inact active   si   so    bi    bo   in    cs us sy id wa
  0  0 975916  30164 1082752 229380    0    0     1     1    0     1 22 12 66  0
  0  0 975916  30068 1082836 229384    0    0    80     0  333   533  3  1 96  0
  0  0 975916  30060 1082856 229388    0    0    12   220  293   507  3  1 97  0
  0  0 975916  30080 1082860 229392    0    0     4     0  220   312  3  1 96  0
  0  0 975916  30220 1082700 229392    0    0     0     0  198   294  3  1 96  0
  1  0 975916  29376 1083532 229396    0    0    44     0  338   654  1  0 99  0
  0  0 975916  30336 1082604 229396    0    0     0     0  285   507  4  2 94  0
  0  0 975916  30300 1082640 229404    4    0    12   572  275   445  3  2 95  0
  0  0 975916  30432 1082496 229408    0    0    12     0  272   440  3  1 96  0
  0  0 975916  30396 1082044 229896    0    0     4     0  612   356  3  1 96  0
  0  0 975916  31292 1080800 230252    0    0   140     0  781   682  3  2 95  0
  0  4 975916  31208 1080892 230260    0    0    76   444  356   572  3  0 97  0
  0  0 975916  31352 1080748 230264    0    0    16    40  227   305  3  0 97  0
  0  0 975916  31324 1080764 230264    0    0     0     0  337   721  4  2 95  0
  0  0 975916  31520 1080584 230264    0    0     0     0  266   442  4  0 96  0
  1  0 975916  31520 1080592 230264    0    0     8     0  308   653  2  0 98  0
  0  0 975916  31660 1080452 230268    0    0     8   544  269   371  2  1 98  0
  0  0 975916  31660 1080452 230284    0    0     4     0  242   366  3  1 97  0
  0  0 975916  31840 1080276 230284    0    0     0     0  187   224  3  0 96  0
  0  0 975916  31820 1080260 230316    0    0    16     0  289   429  3  1 95  0

In particular, by looking at the "inact" versus "active" columns, you 
can see that this machine has no memory pressure, and almost all the 
memory that is used is actually inactive.  If you add up the 
respective columns, it's obvious that this machine has 2GB of memory, 
of which about 1GB is inactive.

Unfortunately, beyond that, it's hard to tell what's going on with 
the information you've given us.  Doing performance tuning does 
sometimes take some deeper knowledge of how the OS works and what 
your tools are capable of showing you, which is why (as the author of 
that FAQ entry) I recommended that you get a good book on performance 
tuning that is suitable for your OS.

In your case, it would probably be good to look at the individual 
memory requirements of some of your important processes, as well as 
the system itself.  You could do that with "ps" or "top", although 
there may be better tools that I am not familiar with.  Again, you 
need to know more about doing performance tuning for your OS.


You should also look at the output of "vmstat -m" and "vmstat -s". 
For comparison, here's what the main mail server for python.org looks 
like:

% vmstat -m
Cache                       Num  Total   Size  Pages
kmem_cache                   80     80    244      5
ip_conntrack               1963   6513    288    382
tcp_tw_bucket               710   1020    128     34
tcp_bind_bucket             388    678     32      6
tcp_open_request            720    720     96     18
inet_peer_cache              59     59     64      1
ip_fib_hash                   9    226     32      2
ip_dst_cache               1344   2352    160     93
arp_cache                     2     30    128      1
blkdev_requests            4096   4160     96    104
journal_head                730   2028     48     20
revoke_table                  3    253     12      1
revoke_record               226    226     32      2
dnotify_cache                 0      0     20      0
file_lock_cache             455    520     96     13
fasync_cache                  0      0     16      0
uid_cache                    18    452     32      4
skbuff_head_cache           756    888    160     37
sock                        682    864    960    215
sigqueue                    522    522    132     18
kiobuf                        0      0     64      0
Cache                       Num  Total   Size  Pages
cdev_cache                  973   1062     64     18
bdev_cache                    4    177     64      3
mnt_cache                    14    177     64      3
inode_cache              833119 833119    512 119017
dentry_cache             1289340 1289340    128  42978
filp                      12297  12360    128    412
names_cache                  64     64   4096     64
buffer_head              267637 325280     96   8132
mm_struct                   666    720    160     30
vm_area_struct             7463  11720     96    292
fs_cache                    661    767     64     13
files_cache                 344    441    416     49
signal_act                  306    306   1312    102
size-131072(DMA)              0      0 131072      0
size-131072                   0      0 131072      0
size-65536(DMA)               0      0  65536      0
size-65536                    0      0  65536      0
size-32768(DMA)               0      0  32768      0
size-32768                    1      2  32768      1
size-16384(DMA)               0      0  16384      0
size-16384                    0      1  16384      0
Cache                       Num  Total   Size  Pages
size-8192(DMA)                0      0   8192      0
size-8192                     2      6   8192      2
size-4096(DMA)                0      0   4096      0
size-4096                   179    179   4096    179
size-2048(DMA)                0      0   2048      0
size-2048                   218    338   2048    130
size-1024(DMA)                0      0   1024      0
size-1024                   454    516   1024    129
size-512(DMA)                 0      0    512      0
size-512                    560    560    512     70
size-256(DMA)                 0      0    256      0
size-256                    540    540    256     36
size-128(DMA)                 0      0    128      0
size-128                    961   1230    128     41
size-64(DMA)                  0      0     64      0
size-64                  150332 150332     64   2548
size-32(DMA)                  0      0     32      0
size-32                  170140 179218     32   1586

% vmstat -s
       2069316  total memory
       2038880  used memory
        232384  active memory
       1080640  inactive memory
         30436  free memory
        142724  buffer memory
        937524  swap cache
       1951888  total swap
        975916  used swap
        975972  free swap
     826138426 non-nice user cpu ticks
      28477042 nice user cpu ticks
     466997502 system cpu ticks
    2583888858 idle cpu ticks
             0 IO-wait cpu ticks
             0 IRQ cpu ticks
             0 softirq cpu ticks
    1453923144 pages paged in
    1620774295 pages paged out
        317133 pages swapped in
        445086 pages swapped out
     131794970 interrupts
     245776829 CPU context switches
    1130916810 boot time
     115549581 forks

Of course, if you don't know how to do performance tuning for your 
OS, and you don't have a good book to help guide you through this 
process, then most of these numbers will probably be pretty 
meaningless to you.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From pete at datasages.com  Sun Oct 29 23:22:58 2006
From: pete at datasages.com (Peter Kofod)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 17:22:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Performance on mailman
References: <3CD2F82644A26B4CBDD478995E7FB129AA34@exchange.datasages.com>
	<p06240501c16ac0b139df@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <3CD2F82644A26B4CBDD478995E7FB129037ABA@exchange.datasages.com>

Thanks Brad.  I will give those vmstat switches a whirl.  
 
I wouldn't even have started looking in to it if it wasn't that the system was so unresponsive.  It literally took 20 minutes to get a login prompt via ssh today.  This was with no mail being processed. The only way it gets quick again is when I kill the pid for mailmanctls and all her "kids".  Something is bogging it down and it's not the MTA (postfix) or apache, since it is still slow after I kill those as well.  Any thoughts on what it means when the process is in a wa (wait?) state as opposed to id (idle?).  I am wondering if there is some type of thread blocking (I am not a developer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night).  Just wondering out aloud.  Am I on to something or am I off the rocker?
 
Thanks,
 
Pete

________________________________

From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at shub-internet.org]
Sent: Sun 10/29/2006 4:01 PM
To: Peter Kofod; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Performance on mailman



At 11:26 AM -0500 10/29/06, Peter Kofod wrote:


>  My blocks in (bi) and swap in (si) seem very high compared to what the
>  FAQ says.  Furthermore, It looks like a lot of the processes are in a
>  wait state (far right), if I read this correctly.

The Linux box you are comparing to in that FAQ entry is not doing a
whole lot at that point, even though it's the main mail server for
python.org.

You're seeing lots of swap-ins, but then *nix type OSes are usually
demand-paged (i.e., stuff isn't loaded into memory until it's
needed), so on a busy server a lot of swap-ins could be perfectly
normal.  Your blocks-in is also higher than shown for that server,
because your machine is busier for that period of time.

>  Anyone have a clue what I did wrong?

I'm not at all convinced that you've done anything wrong.  You're not
seeing any swap-outs (so) although you don't have much buffer or
cache in use, so it looks to me like you might be seeing some memory
pressure but not enough to cause swapouts.  You are seeing high
block-in rates and low block-out rates, which implies that the system
is working to read everything in but is not yet outputting much
information.

As comparison, here's what the main mail server for python.org looks
like right now:

% vmstat 1 20
procs -----------memory---------- ---swap-- -----io---- --system-- ----cpu----
  r  b   swpd   free   buff  cache   si   so    bi    bo   in    cs us sy id wa
  0  2 975916  32988 140552 920632    0    0     1     1    0     1 22 12 66  0
  0  0 975916  32792 140560 920752    0    0   144   556  647  1015  4  1 95  0
  0  0 975916  31928 140560 920820    0    0    64     0 1150   724  3  2 94  0
  1  0 975916  31764 140568 920832    0    0    16     0  694   523  2  1 97  0
  0  0 975916  32508 140572 920852    0    0     8   672 1243  1068  5  3 92  0
  0  0 975916  31192 140584 920844    0    0     0   400  550   834  7  3 90  0
  0  0 975916  31064 140588 920852    0    0     8     0  403   593  3  1 96  0
  0  0 975916  30892 140588 920856    0    0     0     0  447   594  3  1 96  0
  0  0 975916  30868 140588 920860    0    0     0     0  463   779  3  1 95  0
  0  0 975916  30656 140592 920956    0    0    92     0  417   503  3  1 96  0
  0  0 975916  30192 140616 920980    0    0    24   416  370   518  4  1 95  0
  0  0 975916  30176 140616 920992    0    0     0   256  364   570  3  1 96  0
  1  0 975916  30128 140620 920992    0    0     4     0  292   375  1  1 97  0
  0  0 975916  30120 140620 920996    0    0     0     0  350   665  1  1 98  0
  0  0 975916  30072 140620 921000    0    0     4     0  282   439  2  2 96  0
  0  0 975916  30004 140636 921020    0    0    16   780  237   494  4  2 94  0
  0  0 975916  29892 140636 921024    0    0     4     0  235   325  3  0 97  0
  0  0 975916  30012 140640 921040    0    0    20     0  322   497  3  2 95  0
  0  0 975916  29984 140648 921056    0    0    20     0  360   666  3  1 96  0
  0  0 975916  30036 140656 921128    0    0    80   116  410   791  3  1 95  0

And here's what vmstat looks like when given the "-a" argument:
% vmstat -a 1 20
procs -----------memory---------- ---swap-- -----io---- --system-- ----cpu----
  r  b   swpd   free  inact active   si   so    bi    bo   in    cs us sy id wa
  0  0 975916  30164 1082752 229380    0    0     1     1    0     1 22 12 66  0
  0  0 975916  30068 1082836 229384    0    0    80     0  333   533  3  1 96  0
  0  0 975916  30060 1082856 229388    0    0    12   220  293   507  3  1 97  0
  0  0 975916  30080 1082860 229392    0    0     4     0  220   312  3  1 96  0
  0  0 975916  30220 1082700 229392    0    0     0     0  198   294  3  1 96  0
  1  0 975916  29376 1083532 229396    0    0    44     0  338   654  1  0 99  0
  0  0 975916  30336 1082604 229396    0    0     0     0  285   507  4  2 94  0
  0  0 975916  30300 1082640 229404    4    0    12   572  275   445  3  2 95  0
  0  0 975916  30432 1082496 229408    0    0    12     0  272   440  3  1 96  0
  0  0 975916  30396 1082044 229896    0    0     4     0  612   356  3  1 96  0
  0  0 975916  31292 1080800 230252    0    0   140     0  781   682  3  2 95  0
  0  4 975916  31208 1080892 230260    0    0    76   444  356   572  3  0 97  0
  0  0 975916  31352 1080748 230264    0    0    16    40  227   305  3  0 97  0
  0  0 975916  31324 1080764 230264    0    0     0     0  337   721  4  2 95  0
  0  0 975916  31520 1080584 230264    0    0     0     0  266   442  4  0 96  0
  1  0 975916  31520 1080592 230264    0    0     8     0  308   653  2  0 98  0
  0  0 975916  31660 1080452 230268    0    0     8   544  269   371  2  1 98  0
  0  0 975916  31660 1080452 230284    0    0     4     0  242   366  3  1 97  0
  0  0 975916  31840 1080276 230284    0    0     0     0  187   224  3  0 96  0
  0  0 975916  31820 1080260 230316    0    0    16     0  289   429  3  1 95  0

In particular, by looking at the "inact" versus "active" columns, you
can see that this machine has no memory pressure, and almost all the
memory that is used is actually inactive.  If you add up the
respective columns, it's obvious that this machine has 2GB of memory,
of which about 1GB is inactive.

Unfortunately, beyond that, it's hard to tell what's going on with
the information you've given us.  Doing performance tuning does
sometimes take some deeper knowledge of how the OS works and what
your tools are capable of showing you, which is why (as the author of
that FAQ entry) I recommended that you get a good book on performance
tuning that is suitable for your OS.

In your case, it would probably be good to look at the individual
memory requirements of some of your important processes, as well as
the system itself.  You could do that with "ps" or "top", although
there may be better tools that I am not familiar with.  Again, you
need to know more about doing performance tuning for your OS.


You should also look at the output of "vmstat -m" and "vmstat -s".
For comparison, here's what the main mail server for python.org looks
like:

% vmstat -m
Cache                       Num  Total   Size  Pages
kmem_cache                   80     80    244      5
ip_conntrack               1963   6513    288    382
tcp_tw_bucket               710   1020    128     34
tcp_bind_bucket             388    678     32      6
tcp_open_request            720    720     96     18
inet_peer_cache              59     59     64      1
ip_fib_hash                   9    226     32      2
ip_dst_cache               1344   2352    160     93
arp_cache                     2     30    128      1
blkdev_requests            4096   4160     96    104
journal_head                730   2028     48     20
revoke_table                  3    253     12      1
revoke_record               226    226     32      2
dnotify_cache                 0      0     20      0
file_lock_cache             455    520     96     13
fasync_cache                  0      0     16      0
uid_cache                    18    452     32      4
skbuff_head_cache           756    888    160     37
sock                        682    864    960    215
sigqueue                    522    522    132     18
kiobuf                        0      0     64      0
Cache                       Num  Total   Size  Pages
cdev_cache                  973   1062     64     18
bdev_cache                    4    177     64      3
mnt_cache                    14    177     64      3
inode_cache              833119 833119    512 119017
dentry_cache             1289340 1289340    128  42978
filp                      12297  12360    128    412
names_cache                  64     64   4096     64
buffer_head              267637 325280     96   8132
mm_struct                   666    720    160     30
vm_area_struct             7463  11720     96    292
fs_cache                    661    767     64     13
files_cache                 344    441    416     49
signal_act                  306    306   1312    102
size-131072(DMA)              0      0 131072      0
size-131072                   0      0 131072      0
size-65536(DMA)               0      0  65536      0
size-65536                    0      0  65536      0
size-32768(DMA)               0      0  32768      0
size-32768                    1      2  32768      1
size-16384(DMA)               0      0  16384      0
size-16384                    0      1  16384      0
Cache                       Num  Total   Size  Pages
size-8192(DMA)                0      0   8192      0
size-8192                     2      6   8192      2
size-4096(DMA)                0      0   4096      0
size-4096                   179    179   4096    179
size-2048(DMA)                0      0   2048      0
size-2048                   218    338   2048    130
size-1024(DMA)                0      0   1024      0
size-1024                   454    516   1024    129
size-512(DMA)                 0      0    512      0
size-512                    560    560    512     70
size-256(DMA)                 0      0    256      0
size-256                    540    540    256     36
size-128(DMA)                 0      0    128      0
size-128                    961   1230    128     41
size-64(DMA)                  0      0     64      0
size-64                  150332 150332     64   2548
size-32(DMA)                  0      0     32      0
size-32                  170140 179218     32   1586

% vmstat -s
       2069316  total memory
       2038880  used memory
        232384  active memory
       1080640  inactive memory
         30436  free memory
        142724  buffer memory
        937524  swap cache
       1951888  total swap
        975916  used swap
        975972  free swap
     826138426 non-nice user cpu ticks
      28477042 nice user cpu ticks
     466997502 system cpu ticks
    2583888858 idle cpu ticks
             0 IO-wait cpu ticks
             0 IRQ cpu ticks
             0 softirq cpu ticks
    1453923144 pages paged in
    1620774295 pages paged out
        317133 pages swapped in
        445086 pages swapped out
     131794970 interrupts
     245776829 CPU context switches
    1130916810 boot time
     115549581 forks

Of course, if you don't know how to do performance tuning for your
OS, and you don't have a good book to help guide you through this
process, then most of these numbers will probably be pretty
meaningless to you.

--
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.




From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Oct 30 01:00:55 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 18:00:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Performance on mailman
In-Reply-To: <3CD2F82644A26B4CBDD478995E7FB129037ABA@exchange.datasages.com>
References: <3CD2F82644A26B4CBDD478995E7FB129AA34@exchange.datasages.com>
	<p06240501c16ac0b139df@[10.0.1.11]>
	<3CD2F82644A26B4CBDD478995E7FB129037ABA@exchange.datasages.com>
Message-ID: <p06240500c16af0706a8f@[10.0.1.11]>

At 5:22 PM -0500 10/29/06, Peter Kofod wrote:

>  I wouldn't even have started looking in to it if it wasn't that the
>  system was so unresponsive.

That's not unusual.  Most systems get completely ignored unless there 
is some sort of catastrophic problem.

>  It literally took 20 minutes to get a login prompt via ssh today.
>  This was with no mail being processed. The only way it gets quick
>  again is when I kill the pid for mailmanctls and all her "kids".
>  Something is bogging it down and it's not the MTA (postfix) or
>  apache, since it is still slow after I kill those as well.

 From what you've said so far, it seems likely that Mailman is somehow 
involved in whatever problems you're having, but it's hard to say 
whether it's an innocent bystander that is suffering from collateral 
damage caused by something else, or if Mailman is actually the root 
cause (or one of the root causes).

>  Any thoughts on what it means when the process is in a wa (wait?)
>  state as opposed to id (idle?).

You'd need to have experience in kernel and thread programming on 
your particular platform in order to have a better idea of what this 
means.  I'm not a programmer, and I don't have much Linux-specific 
knowledge, so I'm afraid that I can't help you there.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 30 01:24:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 16:24:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Performance on mailman
In-Reply-To: <3CD2F82644A26B4CBDD478995E7FB129037ABA@exchange.datasages.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006102916240309686eada94b@msapiro>

Peter Kofod wrote:

>Any thoughts on what it means when the process is in a wa (wait?) state as opposed to id (idle?).  I am wondering if there is some type of thread blocking (I am not a developer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night).  Just wondering out aloud.  Am I on to something or am I off the rocker?


I am far from a *nix guru. I last did OS admin/development/maintenance
on the GE/Honeywell GECOS-III/GCOS-8 mainframe systems (but I do know
what the gecos field in the Unix password file was originally used for
and why it's called gecos).

Anyway, the only help I can offer is to tell you what the Mailman
processes are doing.

mailmanctl basically spawns all the qrunners and then calls Python's
os.wait() function which is a built-in function which waits until a
child process exits and then returns it's pid and exit status.

The qrunners process their respective queues. When there's nothing in
the queue, the runner is in a loop which sleeps (via Python's
time.sleep() function) for mm_cfg.QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME, wakes up, checks
it's queue, finds it empty and sleeps again. Default
QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME is seconds(1). You can set it longer in mm_cfg.py.
I don't know if this will help or not.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Jason at Weatherserver.net  Mon Oct 30 08:18:33 2006
From: Jason at Weatherserver.net (Jason [WeatherServer])
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 02:18:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass Footer Change
Message-ID: <000c01c6fbf3$9c0f7040$1400000a@newpc>

I am completely Python stupid.  How can I do a mass change of all footers on the lists I run without going list to list using the web interface.


--------------------------------------------
http://listserver.weatherserver.net
Weather Alerts, Traffic Alerts, Toronto Fire CAD Alerts
All to your email, 24/7/365
*****Visit us today*****

From capt at captfiero.com  Mon Oct 30 08:39:59 2006
From: capt at captfiero.com (Capt Fiero)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 23:39:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is awesome but.....
Message-ID: <000001c6fbf6$9afdf8e0$6a01a8c0@racer>

Ok our one of our resident tech guys that was a Linux guru set up a Linux
box with Mailman on it.  It was great.  He left so I decided to try and set
everything up myself.  I am not a total newb, as I run a Windows Box with
Apache and a few other server aps.  Well at least I didn?t think I was a
newb.  I went through about a ? dozen different Linux distro?s trying to
find one I was comfortable with and after about 40hrs of installing and
dumping I have given up trying to do it on Linux.  I have read a bunch of
FAQ?s on running Mailman on Windows and unless I am mistaken it?s a real
pain.

 

So what I am looking for is either any easy straight forward way of
installing Mailman on an NT box running Apache or a good alternative to the
much loved and great Mailman software.  I don?t even NEED all the
functionality of mailman.  I need a mailing list server that will handle 100
members.  I can sign them up manually.  It has to receive mail and forward
it back out to the group.  

 

Any help in either direction would be appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

David aka Capt Fiero


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.

 


From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Mon Oct 30 08:53:54 2006
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 18:53:54 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is awesome but.....
In-Reply-To: <000001c6fbf6$9afdf8e0$6a01a8c0@racer>
References: <000001c6fbf6$9afdf8e0$6a01a8c0@racer>
Message-ID: <p06230900c16b5db6e8a4@[203.53.37.182]>

>Ok our one of our resident tech guys that was a Linux guru set up a Linux
>box with Mailman on it.  It was great.  He left so I decided to try and set
>everything up myself.  I am not a total newb, as I run a Windows Box with
>Apache and a few other server aps.  Well at least I didn?t think I was a
>newb.  I went through about a ? dozen different Linux distro?s trying to
>find one I was comfortable with and after about 40hrs of installing and
>dumping I have given up trying to do it on Linux.  I have read a bunch of
>FAQ?s on running Mailman on Windows and unless I am mistaken it?s a real
>pain.
>
>
>
>So what I am looking for is either any easy straight forward way of
>installing Mailman on an NT box running Apache or a good alternative to the
>much loved and great Mailman software.  I don?t even NEED all the
>functionality of mailman.  I need a mailing list server that will handle 100
>members.  I can sign them up manually.  It has to receive mail and forward
>it back out to the group. 
>
>
>
>Any help in either direction would be appreciated.
>
Hi again,
	Seriously, pick any Linux distribution - 
Ubuntu may be a good bet for you as the user 
community is quite good for support.
	Personally, I run Mailman on OSX - it 
took some time for me to get it working, but it 
was actually quite easy once I figured out the 
terminology. I used the Postfix MTA that I 
already ran for Mailman & found it easy enough to 
get it going using that.
	I wrote a guide for setting up Mailman on 
OSX, part of which is contained here:
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node50.html
	Hope this helps you somewhat.

-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 30 15:59:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 06:59:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass Footer Change
In-Reply-To: <000c01c6fbf3$9c0f7040$1400000a@newpc>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610300659060250a18d8760@msapiro>

Jason [WeatherServer] wrote:

>I am completely Python stupid.  How can I do a mass change of all footers on the lists I run without going list to list using the web interface.


If you have command line access to Mailman, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.038.htp>.
If not, you have to use the web interface.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists at norrbring.se  Mon Oct 30 17:16:13 2006
From: lists at norrbring.se (Anders Norrbring)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:16:13 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to move a list from 2.1.2
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c16ac049217f@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <4544C356.1080901@norrbring.se> <p06240500c16ac049217f@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <4546254D.60107@norrbring.se>

Brad Knowles skrev:
> At 4:05 PM +0100 10/29/06, Anders Norrbring wrote:
> 
>>  I have a bunch of lists that resides on an old 2.1.2 installation.
>>  I want to move these to a newer machine with Mailman v2.1.7.
> 
> Keep in mind that 2.1.7 has been superceded by 2.1.8 and now 2.1.9. I 
> believe that there may be some serious security issues with the older 
> code, and would recommend that you upgrade to the current version as 
> opposed to 2.1.7.
> 
> The upgrade steps should be the same, the only thing that will differ is 
> the version of Mailman.
> 

Yeah.. I'll do a RPM build for SUSE on the latest version as soon as I 
can find the time. The thing I was a bit concerned about was the move 
from one machine to the other. Seemed to work fine though..

Except that the e-mail footers still shows the old web page link.. I 
haven't been digging into it yet though.

-- 

Anders Norrbring
Norrbring Consulting

From forrest at ce.berkeley.edu  Mon Oct 30 17:31:29 2006
From: forrest at ce.berkeley.edu (Jon Forrest)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 08:31:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to move a list from 2.1.2
In-Reply-To: <4546254D.60107@norrbring.se>
References: <4544C356.1080901@norrbring.se> <p06240500c16ac049217f@[10.0.1.11]>
	<4546254D.60107@norrbring.se>
Message-ID: <454628E1.5020807@ce.berkeley.edu>

Anders Norrbring wrote:

> Yeah.. I'll do a RPM build for SUSE on the latest version as soon as I 
> can find the time. The thing I was a bit concerned about was the move 
> from one machine to the other. Seemed to work fine though..

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but building from source can sometimes
be a good way to go here. It's not very hard, and you learn more
about the package you're building. This can help a lot of something
goes wrong because then you don't see the program as a closed box.
Plus, with complicated programs, when you build them yourself,
you know exactly what options you use, which you can then document
for your group. Once you've done this, then it makes moving
to other machines, and maybe other distributions, easier.

I know this isn't the way some people like to operate, and
I often debate this with people I work with, but this
approach has worked well for me, including my recent
installation of Mailman.

Cordially,
-- 
Jon Forrest
forrest at ce.berkeley.edu
Computer Resources Manager
Civil and Environmental Engineering Dept.
305 Davis Hall
Univ. of Calif., Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720-1710
510-642-0904


From cpz at tuunq.com  Mon Oct 30 17:56:05 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 08:56:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to move a list from 2.1.2
In-Reply-To: <454628E1.5020807@ce.berkeley.edu> from Jon Forrest at "Oct 30,
	2006 08:31:29 am"
Message-ID: <20061030165605.769CD7AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Jon Forrest wrote:

> Maybe I'm old fashioned, but building from source can sometimes
> be a good way to go here. It's not very hard, and you learn more
> about the package you're building. This can help a lot of something
> goes wrong because then you don't see the program as a closed box.

I suppose that I'm also rather 'old-fashioned" in that my preferred 
installation is from source, followed by using bsd ports. I've always 
found that using RPMs annoyed me. Either I have to go back and add missing 
dependancies, I don't know where things are installed, or the build options 
are wrong.  (Even on linux, I try to use original sources, not SRPMs.)

And as Jon said, you can learn quite a bit about what you're installing
just by installing it. I mean, how many people that install from RPMs
even know that there might be a README file to read, let along to and 
find it?

You could try installing freebsd instead of linux. Once the base OS
is installed, doing postfix (or exim) and mailman is quite easy.

z!


From sfeng at stanford.edu  Mon Oct 30 18:35:06 2006
From: sfeng at stanford.edu (Xueshan Feng)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 09:35:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass Footer Change
In-Reply-To: <mailman.28.1162206009.30479.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.28.1162206009.30479.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <1162229706.23773.314.camel@hoss.stanford.edu>


> > Reply-To: Jason [WeatherServer] <Jason at Weatherserver.net>
> > To: mailman-users at python.org
> > Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass Footer Change
> > Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 02:18:33 -0500
> > 
> > I am completely Python stupid.  How can I do a mass change of all footers on the lists I run without going list to list using the web interface.
> > 
> > 

Create a script, for example, call it 'newfooter.py' and save it under
the same diretory as 'withlist' script (/usr/lib/mailman/bin for my
Debian installation).

The newfooter.py:


def newfooter(mlist, file):
    fp = open(file) 
    nfooter = fp.read()
    fp.close()
    mlist.msg_footer = nfooter
    mlist.Save()

Then you can run (as root or mailman user):

withlist -l -r newfooter <list> <file>

This will change the footer of <list> with the content in <file>.

You wil need a script around it to feed it with multiple lists. 

This probably doesn't help much if you don't have login access to the
mailman server.  We developed a remote command line interface so our
list owners can manage their lists via command line without having to
login to the server. 

Xueshan


------------------------------
Xueshan Feng (aka. Susan Feng)            

Shared Services, ITSS
Stanford University, CA 94305-3090

255 Panama St.
Room 157, Polya Hall
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4136





From lists at norrbring.se  Mon Oct 30 19:11:17 2006
From: lists at norrbring.se (Anders Norrbring)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 19:11:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to move a list from 2.1.2
In-Reply-To: <454628E1.5020807@ce.berkeley.edu>
References: <4544C356.1080901@norrbring.se> <p06240500c16ac049217f@[10.0.1.11]>
	<4546254D.60107@norrbring.se> <454628E1.5020807@ce.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <45464045.5020609@norrbring.se>

Jon Forrest skrev:
> Anders Norrbring wrote:
> 
>> Yeah.. I'll do a RPM build for SUSE on the latest version as soon as I 
>> can find the time. The thing I was a bit concerned about was the move 
>> from one machine to the other. Seemed to work fine though..
> 
> Maybe I'm old fashioned, but building from source can sometimes
> be a good way to go here. It's not very hard, and you learn more
> about the package you're building. This can help a lot of something
> goes wrong because then you don't see the program as a closed box.
> Plus, with complicated programs, when you build them yourself,
> you know exactly what options you use, which you can then document
> for your group. Once you've done this, then it makes moving
> to other machines, and maybe other distributions, easier.
> 
> I know this isn't the way some people like to operate, and
> I often debate this with people I work with, but this
> approach has worked well for me, including my recent
> installation of Mailman.
> 
> Cordially,


Well Jon,
I do the builds, then I install them.. :)  SUSE doesn't provide 
latest-version packages, therefore I create them myself, and put them 
online for others to use if they want.

-- 

Anders Norrbring
Norrbring Consulting

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Oct 30 19:27:04 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:27:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to move a list from 2.1.2
In-Reply-To: <20061030165605.769CD7AE@mail.tuunq.com>
References: <20061030165605.769CD7AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <p06240501c16bf2c13390@[10.0.1.11]>

At 8:56 AM -0800 10/30/06, Carl Zwanzig wrote:

>  I suppose that I'm also rather 'old-fashioned" in that my preferred
>  installation is from source, followed by using bsd ports.

Of course, I prefer installing from source, too.  Especially when it 
comes to things like Mailman.  The irony here is that for the NTP 
Public Services project, when I initially installed Mailman so that I 
could switch over from Majordomo (like, four or five years ago), I 
used the BSD port system.  So, when it came time to do the upgrade to 
2.1.9, I ended up using the BSD port system once again.

>  You could try installing freebsd instead of linux. Once the base OS
>  is installed, doing postfix (or exim) and mailman is quite easy.

I've gotten to the point where I no longer talk to people about 
switching OSes.  I may talk about the superiority of using BSD 
filesystems with Soft Updates for mail-related applications, and if 
people are curious then I'll be able to talk about that in more depth.

But otherwise I've gotten to the point where I figure that most 
people aren't going to switch OSes just because I suggest it, and 
that my doing so just annoys them and doesn't have any positive 
impact.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.


From cgregory at hwcn.org  Mon Oct 30 21:06:06 2006
From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 15:06:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PROBLEM: Cron <mailman@king> /usr/bin/python -S
	/var/mailman/cron/senddigests
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10610301505260.20517-100000@james.hwcn.org>


Hello! I've just subscribed to see if anyone here is familiar with 
the error report I am now getting repeatedly from mailman (see below).

Also, I'm not certain yet, but it appears my archiving may have
stopped working. When I go to check archives, there are no
listings for the current week. 

If there is a specific set of info I can post (config, etc)
let me know. I've made no changes to list settings in the
past few days, and my postfix logs seem to show individual e-mails 
going out from the lists.

Incidentally, I'm sorry, but generic fixes like "upgrade mailman" won't
help me, because I'm stuck with the Red Hat 9 rpm. (sigh)
But if someone can tell me how to 'unstick' the following error,
I would appreciate it. 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 12:00:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Cron Daemon <root at hwcn.org>
To: mailman at hwcn.org
Subject: [WL] Cron <mailman at king> /usr/bin/python -S
    /var/mailman/cron/senddigests

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ?
    main()
  File "/var/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 86, in main
    mlist.send_digest_now()
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 60, in send_digest_now
    ToDigest.send_digests(self, mboxfp)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 123, in send_digests
    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 295, in send_i18n_digests
    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 252, in process
    payload = part.get_payload(decode=1)
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 189, in get_payload
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 75, in _bdecode
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/base64.py", line 44, in decodestring
    return binascii.a2b_base64(s)
binascii.Error: Incorrect padding

-----------------------

Thanks,

- Charles





From cgregory at hwcn.org  Mon Oct 30 23:17:18 2006
From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:17:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PROBLEM: Cron <mailman@king> /usr/bin/python -S
 /var/mailman/cron/senddigests
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10610301505260.20517-100000@james.hwcn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10610301710270.20517-100000@james.hwcn.org>


Additional note: I'm now digging through the archives (and having
better luck finding 'incorrect padding' as a search term).

It looks like it is caused by an attachment coding prob? Makes me wonder
why I am running into it now after years of successful posts? 

Is it possible I could just tell list members to NOT USE some particular
'function' or 'attachment'? The list is configured to only pass/permit
attachments of :

   multipart/mixed
   multipart/alternative
   text/plain
   text/html

- Charles

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006, Charles Gregory wrote:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/var/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/var/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 86, in main
>     mlist.send_digest_now()
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 60, in send_digest_now
>     ToDigest.send_digests(self, mboxfp)
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 123, in send_digests
>     send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 295, in send_i18n_digests
>     msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 252, in process
>     payload = part.get_payload(decode=1)
>   File "/var/tmp/mailman-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 189, in get_payload
>   File "/var/tmp/mailman-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 75, in _bdecode
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.2/base64.py", line 44, in decodestring
>     return binascii.a2b_base64(s)
> binascii.Error: Incorrect padding
> 
> -----------------------
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> - Charles
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cgregory%40hwcn.org
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 31 00:07:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 15:07:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PROBLEM: Cron <mailman@king> /usr/bin/python
	-S/var/mailman/cron/senddigests
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10610301710270.20517-100000@james.hwcn.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602006103015074808758c4fe13b@msapiro>

Charles Gregory wrote:
>
>Additional note: I'm now digging through the archives (and having
>better luck finding 'incorrect padding' as a search term).
>
>It looks like it is caused by an attachment coding prob? Makes me wonder
>why I am running into it now after years of successful posts? 


IIRC, this is fixed in recent versions, but since you asked us not to
suggest upgrading, I won't bother to look up the detail.

I think the error comes from a messahe part that has
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 and has incorrect padding at the
end. You haven't seen it before, because it is the result of an
encoding error by one person's broken MUA or possibly a message
garbled in transit.

You have to find the problem message which will be in some list's
lists/listname/digest.mbox file and edit the file to either fix or
remove the problem message. The list will be the first one in
alphabetical order that isn't getting it's periodic digests.


>Is it possible I could just tell list members to NOT USE some particular
>'function' or 'attachment'? The list is configured to only pass/permit
>attachments of :
>
>   multipart/mixed
>   multipart/alternative
>   text/plain
>   text/html


I don't think you need to do that. You'll know more when you find the
bad message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lisrael at liaa.com  Tue Oct 31 00:56:44 2006
From: lisrael at liaa.com (Larry Israel)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 15:56:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Simplified Entry
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006103015074808758c4fe13b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <020c01c6fc7f$0f3203e0$b903a8c0@larry1>

My list is administrator-controlled, rather than recipient controlled, to
add members to a list.

I have not found any way to enter both an email address and a
"plain-language name" in the space provided, in a single transaction.  Any
ideas?

Thanks.

Larry Israel



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 31 02:48:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:48:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Simplified Entry
In-Reply-To: <020c01c6fc7f$0f3203e0$b903a8c0@larry1>
Message-ID: <PC176020061030174832020359bbb72b@msapiro>

Larry Israel wrote:
>
>I have not found any way to enter both an email address and a
>"plain-language name" in the space provided, in a single transaction.  Any
>ideas?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.044.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Oct 31 05:00:24 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 13:00:24 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to move a list from 2.1.2
In-Reply-To: <20061030165605.769CD7AE@mail.tuunq.com>
References: <454628E1.5020807@ce.berkeley.edu>
	<20061030165605.769CD7AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <87u01l16ef.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Carl Zwanzig writes:

 > I suppose that I'm also rather 'old-fashioned" in that my preferred 
 > installation is from source,

When was the last time you installed a BIOS from source?<wink>  At some
level everybody has to trust their system from that level on down,
until it proves itself buggy.  I don't think choice of that level is a
matter of fashion; pros will be sharpening their own tools, hobbyists
go to Sears and buy them off the shelf.

 > And as Jon said, you can learn quite a bit about what you're installing
 > just by installing it.

Sure.  I can't blame people who don't though.  As a general principle,
it's all too often the case that all you gain is a knowledge of pain.
I wouldn't impose installing most GNOME apps from source on my worst
enemy.

In the case of Mailman, the defaults *don't* suck and the batteries
*are* included, it's definitely worth the small amount of extra time
spent.

 > I mean, how many people that install from RPMs even know that there
 > might be a README file to read, let along to and find it?

This is something that has peeved me for a decade.  Installers for
commercial software usually offer you the README after installation.
Why don't pkgsrc and dpkg and rpm and portage and MacPorts do that?

(Yes, I suggested that to the dselect maintainer, way back when.  I
guess I should do it again, now that debconf actually works---it
should be possible to adapt similar techniques.)


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Oct 31 05:25:22 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (stephen at xemacs.org)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 13:25:22 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PROBLEM: Cron <mailman@king>
	/usr/bin/python	-S/var/mailman/cron/senddigests
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006103015074808758c4fe13b@msapiro>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10610301710270.20517-100000@james.hwcn.org>
	<PC17602006103015074808758c4fe13b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87slh5158t.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > You have to find the problem message which will be in some list's
 > lists/listname/digest.mbox file and edit the file to either fix or
 > remove the problem message.

Note that fixing the message is a matter of adding or removing a few
"=" at the end of a BASE64-encoded text.

Since it's in a body part, look for a header that says

Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

Following that header section there will be a body part of long lines
of random-looking characters with no spaces in them and very few
punctuation characters.  Most mailers produce lines of 64 characters
(IIRC), so to check the length-multiple-of-4 constraint, just look at
the last line.  It should end with 0, 1, or 2 "=" signs as padding to
make it a multiple of 4 (there's a technical reason why 3 is impossible).

As long as you don't do *anything else* to the file, adding or
subtracting "=" as described here cannot make the situation worse. :-)

[[ For completeness, if had been in a header, you'd be looking for a
"MIME encoded word" which looks like

=?ENCODING?B?BASE64-characters-length-multiple-of-4?=

The "=?" prefix, "?" separators, and "?=" are literal.  The "ENCODING"
depends on character set used, the "B" means "BASE64", and the rest is
encoded content.  If the "BASE64-characters-length-multiple-of-4" part
is not a multiple of 4, then it should end with "=" pad characters,
either 1 or 2. ]]

HTH

Steve



From cgregory at hwcn.org  Tue Oct 31 15:49:52 2006
From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:49:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RESOLVED: Cron <mailman@king> /usr/bin/python
 -S/var/mailman/cron/senddigests
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006103015074808758c4fe13b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10610310938380.3675-100000@james.hwcn.org>

Hi and thanks!

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I think the error comes from a messahe part that has
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 and has incorrect padding at the
> end. You haven't seen it before, because it is the result of an
> encoding error by one person's broken MUA or possibly a message
> garbled in transit.

(nod) That is what I gathered from the web. But it keeps happening
every day. And thanks to your next comment I figured it out.....

> You have to find the problem message which will be in some list's
> lists/listname/digest.mbox file and edit the file to either fix or
> remove the problem message. The list will be the first one in
> alphabetical order that isn't getting it's periodic digests.

THANKS! I keep forgetting that apart from our main list we have a couple
of other small 'unused' ones. Unused, except that they attract the
occasional piece of spam! While the digest.mbox for the main list was
cycling properly, the digest.mbox for one of the smaller ones was 'stuck'
starting with the date the error appeared!

Fortunately no one gets the digest on that list, so I just trashed it.
And I am also happy because this means there is no 'regular poster'
on the main list using a broken MUA. (wipe brow with relief)

Excellent! So the cause was what I thought. I just had to look in the
right list for the 'bad' message. Thanks again!

- Charles



From dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us  Tue Oct 31 17:17:13 2006
From: dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us (Dan Young)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:17:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to move a list from 2.1.2
In-Reply-To: <87u01l16ef.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <454628E1.5020807@ce.berkeley.edu>	<20061030165605.769CD7AE@mail.tuunq.com>
	<87u01l16ef.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <45477709.4090909@mesd.k12.or.us>

stephen at xemacs.org wrote:
> Carl Zwanzig writes:
>  > I mean, how many people that install from RPMs even know that there
>  > might be a README file to read, let along to and find it?
> 
> This is something that has peeved me for a decade.  Installers for
> commercial software usually offer you the README after installation.
> Why don't pkgsrc and dpkg and rpm and portage and MacPorts do that?

If rpm asked me if I wanted to read the README every time I installed a
package, I'd claw my eyes out. rpm has always worked in a fully
automated fashion, i.e. no prompting for EULAs, etc.

"rpm -qld mailman" tells me where all the docs are, thankyouverymuch. ;-)

-- 
Dan Young <dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us>
Multnomah ESD - Technology Services
503-257-1562



From wheakory at isu.edu  Tue Oct 31 17:33:07 2006
From: wheakory at isu.edu (Kory Wheatley)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:33:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendigest error
Message-ID: <45477AC3.6000309@isu.edu>

I receive the following error when the below cron job is ran, or just 
running it from the command line.  Any suggestion on what would fix this 
issue?  Do I have a bad digest.mbox somewhere?

 /usr/local/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/senddigests

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ?
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 86, in main
    mlist.send_digest_now()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 60, in send_digest_now
    ToDigest.send_digests(self, mboxfp)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 133, in 
send_digests
    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 315, in 
send_i18n_digests
    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 299, in process
    url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 411, in 
save_attachment
    filename = Utils.oneline(msg.get_filename(''), lcset)
  File "/home/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 724, in get_filename
    filename = self.get_param('filename', missing, 'content-disposition')
  File "/home/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 607, in get_param
    for k, v in self._get_params_preserve(failobj, header):
  File "/home/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 554, in 
_get_params_preserve
    params = Utils.decode_params(params)
  File "/home/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 337, in decode_params
    charset, language, value = decode_rfc2231(EMPTYSTRING.join(value))
  File "/home/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 284, in decode_rfc2231
    charset, language, s = parts
ValueError: unpack list of wrong size




From mardin at comcast.net  Tue Oct 31 19:11:46 2006
From: mardin at comcast.net (mardin at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:11:46 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rename mailman hostname
Message-ID: <103120061811.13526.454791E2000AC203000034D6220730079302070B9D0E03@comcast.net>

Hi,

I needed to rename the mailman server (2.1.5) from mailman_server1.admin.net to mailman_server2.admin.net. I followed the FAQ 4.29.

(1) I changed the hostname to mailman_server2.admin.net on the system.

(2) I modified the mm_cfg.py as follows:
 
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mailman_server2.admin.net'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mailman_server2.admin.net'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'

I restart mailman and run fix_url:
$ ./mailmanctl restart
$ ./withlist -l -r fix_url listname

(3) I changed httpd.conf and ssl.conf to match new hostname of mailman_server2.admin.net.

The new mailman_server2..admin.net server was working (such as posted to mailing lists and run command line).  But I found a problem:

After I used URL of https://mailman_server2.admin.net/mailman/admin/, I could log in the list successfully. But I could not modify the contents of configurations and do other administration work. When I tried to submit the changes, I got the following message:

"Although this page is encrypted, the information you have entered is to be sent over an unencrypted connection and could easily be read by a third party.
Are you sure you want to continue sending this information? -> Continue"

After I clicked the Continue Botton, nothing changed about the list.

I did add the "DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'" to mm_cfg.py and restart mailman. Did I miss some steps for renaming the mailman hostname?

Thanks for your help! 
Mardin


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 31 20:37:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 11:37:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rename mailman hostname
In-Reply-To: <103120061811.13526.454791E2000AC203000034D6220730079302070B9D0E03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602006103111374309062e7ecb55@msapiro>

mardin at comcast.net wrote:
>
>After I used URL of https://mailman_server2.admin.net/mailman/admin/, I could log in the list successfully. But I could not modify the contents of configurations and do other administration work. When I tried to submit the changes, I got the following message:
>
>"Although this page is encrypted, the information you have entered is to be sent over an unencrypted connection and could easily be read by a third party.
>Are you sure you want to continue sending this information? -> Continue"
>
>After I clicked the Continue Botton, nothing changed about the list.
>
>I did add the "DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'" to mm_cfg.py and restart mailman. Did I miss some steps for renaming the mailman hostname?

If you want to use SSL, you should set

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'

and then run fix_url again. Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From scott at fyrenice.com  Tue Oct 31 20:42:17 2006
From: scott at fyrenice.com (Dr. Scott S. Jones)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:42:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reviving broken mailman ???
Message-ID: <20061031194217.GA26085@xmission.com>

Just for curiosity's sake, what would happen if one were to backup one's
list files, purge mailman and then reinstall, and move the list files back?
Might this revive a system running on debian, which is currently broken? 

Scott


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Oct 31 20:49:41 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 13:49:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reviving broken mailman ???
In-Reply-To: <20061031194217.GA26085@xmission.com>
References: <20061031194217.GA26085@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610311149o604fa232o672edb9fc03b8ce9@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/31/06, Dr. Scott S. Jones <scott at fyrenice.com> wrote:
> Just for curiosity's sake, what would happen if one were to backup one's
> list files, purge mailman and then reinstall, and move the list files back?
> Might this revive a system running on debian, which is currently broken?

It depends on why it's broken.

That said, if you follow the procedures given for moving a list to
another machine (except, instead, just move all the files aside while
you purge/reinstall), it shouldn't be any more broken than it was
before.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 31 20:58:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 11:58:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendigest error
In-Reply-To: <45477AC3.6000309@isu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602006103111584608752e7ecb39@msapiro>

Kory Wheatley wrote:
>
>I receive the following error when the below cron job is ran, or just 
>running it from the command line.  Any suggestion on what would fix this 
>issue?  Do I have a bad digest.mbox somewhere?


Probably not. You have a digest.mbox that has a message with an unusual
rfc2231 encoded header (a long filename= parameter in the
Content-Disposition: header of an attachment with an apostrophe in the
name), but the header is probably correct. It is the Python
email.Utils.decode_params() function that has the problem. This has
been fixed in Python email 2.5.8 which ships with Mailman 2.1.9


> /usr/local/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/senddigests
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/home/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/home/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 86, in main
>    mlist.send_digest_now()
>  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 60, in send_digest_now
>    ToDigest.send_digests(self, mboxfp)
>  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 133, in 
>send_digests
>    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 315, in 
>send_i18n_digests
>    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
>  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 299, in process
>    url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir)
>  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 411, in 
>save_attachment
>    filename = Utils.oneline(msg.get_filename(''), lcset)
>  File "/home/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 724, in get_filename
>    filename = self.get_param('filename', missing, 'content-disposition')
>  File "/home/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 607, in get_param
>    for k, v in self._get_params_preserve(failobj, header):
>  File "/home/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 554, in 
>_get_params_preserve
>    params = Utils.decode_params(params)
>  File "/home/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 337, in decode_params
>    charset, language, value = decode_rfc2231(EMPTYSTRING.join(value))
>  File "/home/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 284, in decode_rfc2231
>    charset, language, s = parts
>ValueError: unpack list of wrong size

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Oct 31 21:04:41 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:04:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reviving broken mailman ???
In-Reply-To: <20061031195632.GA26435@xmission.com>
References: <20061031194217.GA26085@xmission.com>
	<6fbe3da00610311149o604fa232o672edb9fc03b8ce9@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061031195632.GA26435@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00610311204r774add6bvf239efd018b6abfb@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/31/06, Dr. Scott S. Jones <scott at fyrenice.com> wrote:
> Broken, in that it won't send out through my MTA, which in my case is Exim4,
> or in another who's had trouble with mailman on debian, through Postfix. It
> seems that when he moved his data files, and purged mailman and then
> reinstalled it. He claims it works now....
Well, my point was, if your mailman is broken because something is
wrong with your list config files, keeping the list config files and
reinstalling everything else won't help anything. :)

> My question then is which files does one move out of the way of the wrecking
> ball, a la apt-get --purge mailman etc.... so that one doesn't have to
> recreate the list after reinstallation?

If you aren't concerned about list archives, I believe you only need
the files in (on Debian) /var/lib/mailman/lists/*
Each list should have its own directory, with a config.pck, possibly
config.pck.last, and (possibly?) a request.pck.

Archives are in /var/lib/mailman/archives; they can be regenerated
from some subset of the files in this hierarchy (I believe its those
under listname.mbox/), but I'm not sure if that's all that's required.

If you can read bash script, FAQ 4.18
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.018.htp>
might help you figure all this out.

P.s.,
Please CC the list on all replies, so that more well-versed folk can
chime in when I might not know the answer.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From mardin at comcast.net  Tue Oct 31 21:17:10 2006
From: mardin at comcast.net (mardin at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:17:10 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rename mailman hostname
Message-ID: <103120062017.17851.4547AF460002B00D000045BB220588644202070B9D0E03@comcast.net>

Mark,

You are great! It works now!

If renaming the mailman (2.1.5) hostname from mailman_server1.admin.net to mailman_server2.admin.net, I know that I have to modify and add the following three lines:
# vi mm_cfg.py  
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mailman_server2.admin.net'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mailman_server2.admin.net'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'

My question is how to use the following two lines:

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

For our case, is it necessary to add the above two lines? When I did a quick test, the mailman server was working without adding these two lines.

Thanks,
Mardin


 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
> mardin at comcast.net wrote:
> >
> >After I used URL of https://mailman_server2.admin.net/mailman/admin/, I could 
> log in the list successfully. But I could not modify the contents of 
> configurations and do other administration work. When I tried to submit the 
> changes, I got the following message:
> >
> >"Although this page is encrypted, the information you have entered is to be 
> sent over an unencrypted connection and could easily be read by a third party.
> >Are you sure you want to continue sending this information? -> Continue"
> >
> >After I clicked the Continue Botton, nothing changed about the list.
> >
> >I did add the "DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'" to mm_cfg.py and 
> restart mailman. Did I miss some steps for renaming the mailman hostname?
> 
> If you want to use SSL, you should set
> 
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
> 
> and then run fix_url again. Also see
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 31 22:06:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 13:06:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rename mailman hostname
In-Reply-To: <103120062017.17851.4547AF460002B00D000045BB220588644202070B9D0E03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610311306410265cf1dee92@msapiro>

mardin at comcast.net wrote:
>
>My question is how to use the following two lines:
>
>VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>
>For our case, is it necessary to add the above two lines? When I did a quick test, the mailman server was working without adding these two lines.

It depends on what you're doing and what's in Defaults.py. If the
settings in Defaults.py for DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
are correct, then you don't need the two lines in mm_cfg.py (and you
also don't need to set DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST in
mm_cfg.py).

If the settings in Defaults.py for DEFAULT_URL_HOST and/or
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST need changing in mm_cfg.py, then you also need the
two above lines. This affects mostly creation of new lists, but also
fix_url and the domain of the site email address on the listinfo pages
and some other places.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From BEBL.IT at InfoTechAccounting.com  Tue Oct 31 22:23:49 2006
From: BEBL.IT at InfoTechAccounting.com (Bruce E. Breeding)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 15:23:49 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails Not Being Delivered to All on List
Message-ID: <0b2a01c6fd32$dbd09570$1400000a@reuben>

Symptom:  some list recipients are not receiving their emails from the list [Four resulting questions below]

In attempting to determine WHY the above symptom is occurring, I contacted my web service provider.  We're getting to know each other well due to frequency of communication.  ;)
He seems to be trying hard to help me out.  
Here is his latest helpful hint:

**** Web service provider's suggestions start here ...
"I happened to catch some of your mailing lists trying to deliver a little while ago and caught an example of why you sometimes have problems. This is a good example of a list doing a partial delivery because it stalls at a bad address which causes delays etc for other addresses that are on the same list and this particular address you have on for lists currently unable to finish delivery.......................

Getting MX record for <domainname>.org (from local DNS server, may be cached)...   Received a SERVER FAILURE response.

This should be treated as an ERROR (per RFC974), and the E-mail delivery should PROBABLY be retried later.

Here is what has been delivered so far, anything with a "Y" has been delivered, anything without is stalled because of the bad email address which doesn't allow the mailserver to continue.

<and here, he inserted a list of email addresses from the list, each prefaced with either
YY, YN, NY, or NN>

<I presume he's getting this from (hopefully appropriate) log.>

<He even suggested I check email addresses at http://www.dnsreport.com (which I have, although I had already checked one by one to be sure the addresses were correctly entered.  I have most of them in a contact list and so there was little doubt in my mind of their accuracy.)>
**** Web service provider's suggestions end here ...

So, my Question(1):  Is it normal to expect a substantial amount of non-delivery to valid email addresses?  I would presume, "No."  But, in case I'm really missing the obvious, here, please enlighten me.

Question (2):  Is it normal for Mailman to "stall", or "stop" processing the rest of a list because of one bad email?  (I'm asking that somewhat rhetorically, expecting an emphatic "NO" answer.)

Question (3):  Please explain the YY, YN, NY, and NN indicators [preceding the email addresses] from the above referenced log.  I understand that YY means the email was delivered to the recipient, and NN means the email was NOT delivered to the recipient.  But, YN and NY?  maybe yes, maybe no?

Question (4):  Do you have further suggestions as to troubleshooting the reason that some of these addresses did not receive the email?  Are there specific places (other logs in mailman) I should ask him to look that could give further information?

Thank you for you help.
Bruce






From d.alan.stewart at mac.com  Tue Oct 31 22:50:23 2006
From: d.alan.stewart at mac.com (D. Alan Stewart)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 16:50:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails Not Being Delivered to All on List
In-Reply-To: <0b2a01c6fd32$dbd09570$1400000a@reuben>
References: <0b2a01c6fd32$dbd09570$1400000a@reuben>
Message-ID: <09C09E85-25BB-45F3-AAAE-7CE0F36973DF@mac.com>

Hey, this sounds like the same problem I posted on Oct. 26! Our list  
has had the problem for five months now.

It gets worse - this list has the same problem. In looking at the  
Mailman-Users archive, I see severals responses to my plea for help,  
"undelivered mail, but only to some" that I never received.

Thanks for the responses, Mark Sapiro, but I never got them - this  
list is broken too! I'll respond to your questions in my next posting.

Alan


On Oct 31, 2006, at 4:23 PM, Bruce E. Breeding wrote:

> Symptom:  some list recipients are not receiving their emails from  
> the list [Four resulting questions below]
>
> In attempting to determine WHY the above symptom is occurring, I  
> contacted my web service provider.  We're getting to know each  
> other well due to frequency of communication.  ;)
> He seems to be trying hard to help me out.
> Here is his latest helpful hint:
>
> **** Web service provider's suggestions start here ...
> "I happened to catch some of your mailing lists trying to deliver a  
> little while ago and caught an example of why you sometimes have  
> problems. This is a good example of a list doing a partial delivery  
> because it stalls at a bad address which causes delays etc for  
> other addresses that are on the same list and this particular  
> address you have on for lists currently unable to finish  
> delivery.......................
>
> Getting MX record for <domainname>.org (from local DNS server, may  
> be cached)...   Received a SERVER FAILURE response.
>
> This should be treated as an ERROR (per RFC974), and the E-mail  
> delivery should PROBABLY be retried later.
>
> Here is what has been delivered so far, anything with a "Y" has  
> been delivered, anything without is stalled because of the bad  
> email address which doesn't allow the mailserver to continue.
>
> <and here, he inserted a list of email addresses from the list,  
> each prefaced with either
> YY, YN, NY, or NN>
>
> <I presume he's getting this from (hopefully appropriate) log.>
>
> <He even suggested I check email addresses at http:// 
> www.dnsreport.com (which I have, although I had already checked one  
> by one to be sure the addresses were correctly entered.  I have  
> most of them in a contact list and so there was little doubt in my  
> mind of their accuracy.)>
> **** Web service provider's suggestions end here ...
>
> So, my Question(1):  Is it normal to expect a substantial amount of  
> non-delivery to valid email addresses?  I would presume, "No."   
> But, in case I'm really missing the obvious, here, please enlighten  
> me.
>
> Question (2):  Is it normal for Mailman to "stall", or "stop"  
> processing the rest of a list because of one bad email?  (I'm  
> asking that somewhat rhetorically, expecting an emphatic "NO" answer.)
>
> Question (3):  Please explain the YY, YN, NY, and NN indicators  
> [preceding the email addresses] from the above referenced log.  I  
> understand that YY means the email was delivered to the recipient,  
> and NN means the email was NOT delivered to the recipient.  But, YN  
> and NY?  maybe yes, maybe no?
>
> Question (4):  Do you have further suggestions as to  
> troubleshooting the reason that some of these addresses did not  
> receive the email?  Are there specific places (other logs in  
> mailman) I should ask him to look that could give further information?
>
> Thank you for you help.
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users% 
> 40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
> d.alan.stewart%40mac.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 31 22:52:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 13:52:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reviving broken mailman ???
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00610311204r774add6bvf239efd018b6abfb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061031135256040647ae8e8e@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
>P.s.,
>Please CC the list on all replies, so that more well-versed folk can
>chime in when I might not know the answer.


Yes. Please try to keep conversations on the list.

Patrick has pretty much covered it. If you want another view, see
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-October/054114.html>.
This is in the context of moving lists, but the directories and files
would be the same.

However, I *think* you should be able to reinstall Mailman without
moving your list data aside and get the same end result, but it would
be good to back up your data anyway.

Also, re: Patrick's concern that the issue may be caused by something
in the list data rather than Mailman itself is quite valid in general,
but is almost certainly not the case with your specific issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 31 23:05:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:05:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails Not Being Delivered to All on List
In-Reply-To: <09C09E85-25BB-45F3-AAAE-7CE0F36973DF@mac.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061031140528032847ae8e24@msapiro>

D. Alan Stewart wrote:
>
>Thanks for the responses, Mark Sapiro, but I never got them - this  
>list is broken too! I'll respond to your questions in my next posting.


This list is *not* broken. When I reply to posts, I normally include
the poster as a direct addressee of my reply (I have removed your
address from this reply). Most people are set to not receives dups
from the list in this case, so the list does not send you a copy and
the only copy you get is the direct mail from me.

If for some reason, direct mail from me to you is returned to me, I
will make every effort to get the mail to you by sending from a
different server or whatever it takes, but if as apparently happened
in your case, the direct mail from me to you just disappears, you
never see it, and I don't know.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 31 23:20:07 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:20:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails Not Being Delivered to All on List
In-Reply-To: <0b2a01c6fd32$dbd09570$1400000a@reuben>
Message-ID: <PC1760200610311420070406f1bb6c1d@msapiro>

Bruce E. Breeding wrote:

>Symptom:  some list recipients are not receiving their emails from the list [Four resulting questions below]
>
>In attempting to determine WHY the above symptom is occurring, I contacted my web service provider.  We're getting to know each other well due to frequency of communication.  ;)
>He seems to be trying hard to help me out.  
>Here is his latest helpful hint:
>
>**** Web service provider's suggestions start here ...
>"I happened to catch some of your mailing lists trying to deliver a little while ago and caught an example of why you sometimes have problems. This is a good example of a list doing a partial delivery because it stalls at a bad address which causes delays etc for other addresses that are on the same list and this particular address you have on for lists currently unable to finish delivery.......................
>
>Getting MX record for <domainname>.org (from local DNS server, may be cached)...   Received a SERVER FAILURE response.


This indicates that your provider's MTA is doing DNS verification on
outgoing mail from Mailman. This is not good. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.011.htp>.


>This should be treated as an ERROR (per RFC974), and the E-mail delivery should PROBABLY be retried later.
>
>Here is what has been delivered so far, anything with a "Y" has been delivered, anything without is stalled because of the bad email address which doesn't allow the mailserver to continue.
>
><and here, he inserted a list of email addresses from the list, each prefaced with either
>YY, YN, NY, or NN>
>
><I presume he's getting this from (hopefully appropriate) log.>


It doesn't come in that form from any Mailman log.


><He even suggested I check email addresses at http://www.dnsreport.com (which I have, although I had already checked one by one to be sure the addresses were correctly entered.  I have most of them in a contact list and so there was little doubt in my mind of their accuracy.)>
>**** Web service provider's suggestions end here ...
>
>So, my Question(1):  Is it normal to expect a substantial amount of non-delivery to valid email addresses?  I would presume, "No."  But, in case I'm really missing the obvious, here, please enlighten me.


It *shouldn't* be normal, but there is no accounting for the things
that ISP's do to protect their users from spam (or to protect
themselves from complaints from their users about spam).

ISPs will discard mail for any number of reasons, and there's not much
you can do about it.

Go to <http://openrbl.org/> and do a DNSBL lookup on the IP address
that your list mail comes from. If the IP address is on any black
lists, you'll have problems with delivery to some ISPs.


>Question (2):  Is it normal for Mailman to "stall", or "stop" processing the rest of a list because of one bad email?  (I'm asking that somewhat rhetorically, expecting an emphatic "NO" answer.)


It depends on the exact response from the MTA. If the MTA refuses a
recipient as undeliverable, Mailman will process that address as a
bounce and will continue to send to the others, possibly after a delay
of up to 15 minutes.


>Question (3):  Please explain the YY, YN, NY, and NN indicators [preceding the email addresses] from the above referenced log.  I understand that YY means the email was delivered to the recipient, and NN means the email was NOT delivered to the recipient.  But, YN and NY?  maybe yes, maybe no?


They don't come from a Mailman log.


>Question (4):  Do you have further suggestions as to troubleshooting the reason that some of these addresses did not receive the email?  Are there specific places (other logs in mailman) I should ask him to look that could give further information?


If the addresses are valid, he should be able to see delivery from the
MTA to the recipient. If the mail is sent from his server towards the
destination, the problem is somewhere downstream.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From d.alan.stewart at mac.com  Tue Oct 31 23:21:38 2006
From: d.alan.stewart at mac.com (D. Alan Stewart)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 17:21:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] undelivered mail, but only to some
Message-ID: <7A3F4C54-CB98-4369-88E8-71E06179A903@mac.com>

Responding to Mark Sapiro:

> If the sendmail log says the post is sent to the user in question,
> Mailman delivered it to sendmail for the user, and it's not Mailman's
> problem.

I agree, it's not clear whether this is a sendmail or a Mailman  
problem. However, I have never, AFAIK, failed to receive an email  
from my provider's domain, unless that email originated from this  
specific Mailman list. That seems suspicious, doesn't it? Of course,  
I may be missing other emails that I am not aware of. Not getting  
something you did not know to expect is not an easy problem to trap.

Since I now know that I am not receiving all emails from this list,  
possibly the problem is common but not often detected because the  
severity varies, list by list.

> Mailman's 'smtp' log. This will tell you how many recipients the post
> was sent to.

My provider has checked Mailman's smtp log. It shows emails were sent  
to all subscribers.

> Also check if the list is personalized. You may not even have
> personalization options on your Non-digest options page which means
> that OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION is not set to Yes in mm_cfg.py
> and delivery is almost certainly not personailzed.

I'm not certain, but I think this answers your question: the list  
does have digest options available to the users.

> Check the settings of VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL and SMTP_MAX_RCPTS if any
> in mm_cfg.py

I looked, there are no settings for these in Mailman/mm_cfg.py. There  
don't appear to be any site-specific settings here.

> You should also see this in the sendmail log, i.e. that the mail was
> delivered to sendmail in one transaction.

The provider has given me sendmail logs that I have analyzed. I was  
able to identify entries in the sendmail log that correspond with  
mailing list transmissions that were not received by the subscriber  
(me).

> Sendmail claims it sent the mail to the users who didn't get it. I
> recognize the symptoms say that Mailman is somehow involved, but I
> don't see how.

I recognize the difficulty of this particular problem.

Thanks,
Alan




From mardin at comcast.net  Tue Oct 31 23:26:17 2006
From: mardin at comcast.net (mardin at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 22:26:17 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rename mailman hostname
Message-ID: <103120062226.2571.4547CD89000A4CF000000A0B221357533302070B9D0E03@comcast.net>

Mark ,

In my Defaults.py:
$ more Defaults.py
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mailman_server1.admin.net'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mailman_server1.admin.net'

Since I need to rename hostname to mailman_server2.admin.net, I have to change it in mm_cfg.py. Thanks for your explanation, I will add these two lines to mm_cfg.py as follows:

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mailman_server2.admin.net'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mailman_server2.admin.net'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'

Thanks for your help!
Mardin


 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
> mardin at comcast.net wrote:
> >
> >My question is how to use the following two lines:
> >
> >VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
> >add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> >
> >For our case, is it necessary to add the above two lines? When I did a quick 
> test, the mailman server was working without adding these two lines.
> 
> It depends on what you're doing and what's in Defaults.py. If the
> settings in Defaults.py for DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
> are correct, then you don't need the two lines in mm_cfg.py (and you
> also don't need to set DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST in
> mm_cfg.py).
> 
> If the settings in Defaults.py for DEFAULT_URL_HOST and/or
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST need changing in mm_cfg.py, then you also need the
> two above lines. This affects mostly creation of new lists, but also
> fix_url and the domain of the site email address on the listinfo pages
> and some other places.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 



From am at apl.washington.edu  Tue Oct 31 23:05:02 2006
From: am at apl.washington.edu (Adam Morehead)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:05:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Interesting Goings ons...
Message-ID: <4547C88E.9030003@apl.washington.edu>

We have mailman setup on our server... Everything is working fine except 
one thing, all the approved emails are going to the recipients, all 
denied are getting denied.. only one thing is bugging me... if theres a 
pending request, we used to get a email letting us know that we have 
email waiting for approval.. its not happening anymore.

I went through aliases and made sure it is 'mailman' not 'wrappers' 
(Since we used to have the older version.

made sure that the aliases file is being called.

and even the email addy is in the admin and moderator spot on the webform...

what am I missing? Please let it be simple? lol.

Adam


From d.alan.stewart at mac.com  Tue Oct 31 23:40:14 2006
From: d.alan.stewart at mac.com (D. Alan Stewart)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 17:40:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails Not Being Delivered to All on List
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061031140528032847ae8e24@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061031140528032847ae8e24@msapiro>
Message-ID: <AFCFE06D-7EF4-45F7-BB59-AF81894FEB98@mac.com>

Mark,

You're correct, I did have the option set to eliminate duplicates.  
I've unset that now, because I'm having trouble trusting Mailman  
these days.

I did not receive either of your responses to my "undelivered email"  
thread.

I've forwarded all messages to my provider in hopes that he can make  
sense of something.

Alan

On Oct 31, 2006, at 5:05 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> D. Alan Stewart wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the responses, Mark Sapiro, but I never got them - this
>> list is broken too! I'll respond to your questions in my next  
>> posting.
>
>
> This list is *not* broken. When I reply to posts, I normally include
> the poster as a direct addressee of my reply (I have removed your
> address from this reply). Most people are set to not receives dups
> from the list in this case, so the list does not send you a copy and
> the only copy you get is the direct mail from me.
>
> If for some reason, direct mail from me to you is returned to me, I
> will make every effort to get the mail to you by sending from a
> different server or whatever it takes, but if as apparently happened
> in your case, the direct mail from me to you just disappears, you
> never see it, and I don't know.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users% 
> 40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
> d.alan.stewart%40mac.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From BEBL.IT at InfoTechAccounting.com  Tue Oct 31 23:56:36 2006
From: BEBL.IT at InfoTechAccounting.com (Bruce E. Breeding)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 16:56:36 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails Not Being Delivered to All on List
References: <PC1760200610311420070406f1bb6c1d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <0b5501c6fd3f$d2347ce0$1400000a@reuben>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> This indicates that your provider's MTA is doing DNS verification on
> outgoing mail from Mailman. This is not good. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.011.htp>.

I went to the URL and read it.  Thank you (and thank you for the other
comments in your email).   However, the FAQ merely said that it (leaving the
verification turned on) will "slow delivery rates from mailman to your MTA
significantly".

Can you elaborate?  (I'm looking for something substantive to convey to my
web service provider.)

Is the delay minutes?  hours?  "it depends [on ___ ]"?

Does the delivery eventually take place, or, do some recipients really never
get the emails?

-- Bruce



From jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu  Tue Oct 31 23:59:32 2006
From: jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu (Jana Nguyen)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:59:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman: how to display subject and date for
 archives when listing of archives?
Message-ID: <4547D554.80001@ncmir.ucsd.edu>

Hi,


How do I get the archive list to display the subject, author and date 
when I go to list archives? For example:

Archive 	View by: 	Downloadable version
11 May 2006: 	  [ Next Meeting for Workshop] [Jana Nguyen] [11 May 
2006]  	[ Text 1 KB ] 
<http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/bcc-internal/20060511.txt>

	
	


 The default that comes with mailman display the heading and we don't 
want this (see below).


You can get more information about this list 
<http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/bcc-internal>.

Archive 	View by: 	Downloadable version
11 May 2006: 	[ Thread ] 
<http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/bcc-internal/20060511/thread.html> 
[ Subject ] 
<http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/bcc-internal/20060511/subject.html> 
[ Author ] 
<http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/bcc-internal/20060511/author.html> 
[ Date ] 
<http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/bcc-internal/20060511/date.html> 
	[ Text 1 KB ] 
<http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/bcc-internal/20060511.txt>
5 May 2006: 	[ Thread ] 
<http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/bcc-internal/20060505/thread.html> 
[ Subject ] 
<http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/bcc-internal/20060505/subject.html> 
[ Author ] 
<http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/bcc-internal/20060505/author.html> 
[ Date ] 
<http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/bcc-internal/20060505/date.html> 
	[ Text 438 bytes ] 
<http://birn-holly.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/bcc-internal/20060505.txt>


Thanks!


From jferrai at us.ibm.com  Thu Oct 26 02:57:19 2006
From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 17:57:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How does mailman/mail/wrapper get created?
Message-ID: <OFB0A246D3.40A8FE3B-ON88257213.0004A6B4-88257213.00053F95@us.ibm.com>



I am working with my ISP to get Mailman installed on a private domain. I
believe we have followed all of the Mailman setup instructions correctly.
We are at the point where we mail lists with subscribers. However, when
attempted to send email to one of the lists (e.g., foo at bar.com), we are now
getting an error message that says:

    sh: line 1: /home/bar/mailman/mail/wrapper: No such file or directory

Looking at my installation, there is no mail/main/wrapper file. Should
there be one? Should it have been created by "make install" or is this
something that needs to be created manually?

Thanks.

Jon Ferraiolo <jferrai at us.ibm.com>