[Mailman-Users] Help newbie with a common error (smrsh)?

Tony Croes tcroes at ctrcc.com
Mon Oct 23 18:05:28 CEST 2006

You nailed it. (doh!)  See comments below. 

Thanks again for your help.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 10:11 AM
To: Tony Croes; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Help newbie with a common error (smrsh)?

Tony Croes wrote:
>	Mark Sapiro wrote:
>	Yes, the mail is delivered to Mailman. Its appearance in the archive

>proves that. Your problem is why is mail from Mailman not getting out.
>	Is OutgoingRunner Running?
>I think so.  Output from #ps auxww | egrep 'p[y]thon':
>mailman   5600  0.0  0.3 11096 3976 ?        Ss   Oct21   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start
>mailman   5601  0.1  0.8 14692 8584 ?        S    Oct21   2:14
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   5602  0.0  0.5 10260 5416 ?        S    Oct21   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   5603  0.0  0.5 11248 5412 ?        S    Oct21   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   5604  0.0  0.5 11936 5772 ?        S    Oct21   0:04
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   5605  0.0  0.5 11208 5440 ?        S    Oct21   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   5606  0.0  0.5 11096 5660 ?        S    Oct21   0:01
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   5607  0.0  0.5 12372 5668 ?        S    Oct21   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   5608  0.0  0.5 11356 5408 ?        S    Oct21   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 

Yes. It looks like Outgoing Runner is running.

>	Mark Sapiro wrote:
>	What's in Mailman's 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' logs?
>	Are there entries in mailman's qfiles/out/, qfiles/retry/ and/or 
>qfiles/shunt queue directories?
>	If there are entries in qfiles/shunt/, what's in Mailman's error
>There is not an smtp-failure log.

This means nothing was ever written to it so it wasn't created yet.

>The smtp and error logs are here:
>Oct 22 16:01:44 2006 (5606)
><mailman.0.1161550902.5604.mailman at server.ctrcc.com> smtp for 1 recips, 
>completed in 0.465 seconds Oct 22 16:01:44 2006 (5606) 
><mailman.1.1161550902.5604.mailman at server.ctrcc.com> smtp for 1 recips, 
>completed in 0.374 seconds Oct 22 16:02:02 2006 (5606) 
><mailman.1.1161550902.5604.mailman at server.ctrcc.com> smtp for 1 recips, 
>completed in 0.342 seconds

The above are delivery of Mailman generated messages, not posts. If they are
associated with posts, they may be a message to the poster that the post was
held, a message to <list>-owner at ... that the post was held and resend of the
<list>-owner message to the actual list owner address.

However, you say the posts ARE in the archive, so they aren't being held or
if they are, they are being approved.

[Tony:]  Posts are in the archive.  They were held, until I went in and
approved them.  I did receive the approval request e-mails.

>Oct 21 11:52:13 2006 mailmanctl(6580): PID unreadable in:
>Oct 21 11:52:13 2006 mailmanctl(6580): [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>Oct 21 11:52:13 2006 mailmanctl(6580): Is qrunner even running? 

These are not relevant to your problem.

>More newbie questions.  Where is ~/qfiles under version 2.1.5?  I have not
>been able to find it.  Is this the equivalent:
>[root at server mailman]# pwd
>[root at server mailman]# ll
>total 60
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman 12288 Oct 22 16:03 archive
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 20 22:53 bounces
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 20 23:14 commands
>drwxrws---  2 mail    mailman 20480 Oct 22 16:03 in
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 20 22:53 news
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 22 16:03 out
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 20 22:53 retry
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  4096 Oct 20 22:53 shunt
>drwxrws---  2 root    mailman  4096 Oct 22 16:01 virgin
>All of these directories are empty.

This is where the RedHat rpm puts them. If you look in mm_cfg.py, you
will see definitions of QUEUE_DIR, INQUEUE_DIR, OUTQUEUE_DIR,
define the location.

Anyway, the fact that they are all empty means Mailman has finished
processing the message - it is not queued anywhere for further
processing. It could be 'held', but not if it appeared in the archive.

The implication is the message had no recipients. i.e., the list has no
members eligible for delivery - the list members
- subscribe to the digest,
- have delivery disabled,
- are the poster who doesn't receive her own posts or
- are a direct addressee who doesn't receive dups.

[Tony:]  This is exactly the issue.  1. The poster does not revceive their
own posts.  2. There were no other users in the list.  When approving the
messages I permitted those e-mail addresses to post to the list and assumed
that this also added them to the list.  It does not.  When I looked under
Adminstration|Membership Management, there were no eligible members.
Mailman is doing exactly what I asked it to.

There are a couple of other interesting things in the above. All the
queue directories are 'default size' except 'in' and 'archive' which
are large. This indicates a lot of messages were posted (and in the
'in' queue) before the qrunners (mailmanctl) were started. Thus the
'in' directory grew. Then Mailman (mailmanctl) was started and the
'in' queue was processed and a lot of messages were dumped in the
'archive' queue which also grew, but ArchRunner was running so the
'archive' queue was being processed and didn't grow as big. The 'out'
queue never grew so presumably those messages had no direct recepients.

[Tony:]  That is what happened.  After installing, I sent test messages and
cron was sending error messages (every minute) related to my earlier user
based cron entries.  When I started mailmanctl, these were apparently
cleared - they were immediately posted to the archive.  Since there were no
members in the list, none of the messages were forwarded.

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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