[Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

JC Dill lists05 at equinephotoart.com
Mon Sep 18 16:55:37 CEST 2006

Barry Warsaw wrote:

> If I was aware of such problems in the past, I honestly don't  
> remember -- I'll place the blame squarely on my overloaded brain, and  
> age. :)   Taking a fresh look at this, I say let's do what we can to  
> get the lists on Gmane, including any back archives.

The problem is that Gmane violated both their own policies (to contact 
list owners before adding lists) and their agreement with us to not 
archive mailman lists.

	I simply don't trust them.

This problem surfaced when I found a "virgin" address of mine receiving 
spam.  I had just that newly created address to subscribe and post to a 
mailman list.  How had spammers found it so fast?  A quick google found 
that my address had been leaked straight to usenet by gmane.

1)  They didn't contact the list owner for permission before archiving 
the list.

2)  They didn't munge email addresses before posting the list messages 
to usenet.

They seem to have fixed problem #2, but problem #1 remains.  How hard is 
it to follow their OWN policy and contact a list's owner before adding 
it to their gateway?  This is basic netiquette.  Yet they don't seem 
able to comply with it.

Taking a fresh look, it looks like they are STILL unable (or unwilling) 
to comply with this.  And that's the crux of the matter.

Ask me if you can borrow my car, and I might say yes and give you the 
keys.  Take my car without asking, that's theft.

Ask me if I want to have sex, and I might say yes!  Try to have sex with 
me without my permission, that's rape.

Ask me if you can mirror/gateway a list I administer, I might say yes. 
Mirror or gateway it without permission (especially when your OWN policy 
says you ask first) and it is a netiquette violation and a copyright 
violation.  Not as bad as car theft or rape, but it's still a matter of 
taking something without permission, and it's still wrong.

IMHO we should not let Gmane mirror the mailman lists until they FIX 
their subscription process to ensure that they have the list owner's 
permission *before* they add the list to their gateway.  If we don't 
maintain this policy, we are endorsing what they do (adding without 
getting permission) and that's just wrong.


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