From cyndi at tikvah.com  Sat Dec  1 23:20:28 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 14:20:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Viewing Full Subscriber & Subscriber Security
Message-ID: <200712012220.lB1MKS7p007692@b.mail.sonic.net>

Hi, I'm new to the list, though I undoubtedly know some of you from other
list management lists.  I am in the process of migrating my mailing lists
from majordomo on a friend's server to mailman at sonic.net.

I have many questions which I haven't been able to answer by reading the
FAQ's.  Some are specific to Sonic most likely and I post those to the
Sonic usenet group for mailman, though it's a slow group.

My first question is about how to view my subscriber list.  It's not a
problem for the small lists.  I simply go to that page in the interface and
there everyone is.  

Unfortunately, once membership hits a certain level, mailman won't provide
the full list.  Now I have to look by letter.  So instead of viewing my
subscriber list in one fail swoop, I need to do it 26 times.

The FAQ taught me about the roster page, which is cool, but it just gives
the list of names, divided by regular and digest.  I can't do things like
page down to see who to unmoderate.  See:
http://lists.sonic.net/mailman/roster/lcveg   

Is there a way to see the entire membership list with all the interactive
boxes I get as an admin? 

Is this a setting on the ISP's end?  Can they make the option available?
or at least raise the threshhold for putting the list into letter-only
status?

Then there is a security question.  When I got the roster (requiring no
password), each name on the list was clickable.  When I clicked on a name,
it took me to the subscription page for that person.  Without requiring a
password.  When I did it for my own name I figured that my password was
just in a cookie.  But it works for a random name too.

Of course, the roster page should be passworded too...is it really possible
for anyone to view my subscriber list?  Can those of you who don't have a
Sonic IP view it?  

The addresses may be changed so they're harder for spammers to harvest but
they're full addresses that can easily be changed to proper emails.  Like
with a lot of lists, there are problems with small-time spammers wanting
access to subscribers but we also have troublemakers.  I don't want my
subscribers' email addresses visible to anyone but me.  And the
subscription settings shouldn't be accessible to just anyone either.

Are there settings on my end that I need to re-do?  Are there settings on
Sonic's end?

Thanks,
Cyndi


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Dec  2 00:32:45 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 15:32:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Viewing Full Subscriber & Subscriber Security
In-Reply-To: <200712012220.lB1MKS7p007692@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602007120115324509216e358f46@msapiro>

Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
>
>Is there a way to see the entire membership list with all the interactive
>boxes I get as an admin? 
>
>Is this a setting on the ISP's end?  Can they make the option available?
>or at least raise the threshhold for putting the list into letter-only
>status?


There are bug reports and feature requests in the sourceforge tracker
about this and lots of email in the archives. I'm embarrased to say
one of the bug reports is mine and I've never fixed it. See
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1072002&group_id=103&atid=100103>,
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=782436&group_id=103&atid=350103>
and
<http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org++inurl%3Amailman++admin_member_chunksize>

The short answer is the Mailman admins at the ISP have to do it. There
is a site configuration setting DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE which
defaults to 30 and sets the list's admin_member_chunksize attribute at
list create time. This in turn is the number above which the
membership is 'chunked'.

This can be changed for a list by running

bin/config_list -i <input_file> <listname>

with an input file containing the single line

admin_member_chunksize = 200

or whatever number you want, but this has to be don by someone with
command line access to the installation.


>Then there is a security question.  When I got the roster (requiring no
>password), each name on the list was clickable.  When I clicked on a name,
>it took me to the subscription page for that person.  Without requiring a
>password.  When I did it for my own name I figured that my password was
>just in a cookie.  But it works for a random name too.


If this were a real security issue, it should be posted per
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp>
(see Security Policy in the list footer), but I don't think it is.


>Of course, the roster page should be passworded too...is it really possible
>for anyone to view my subscriber list?  Can those of you who don't have a
>Sonic IP view it?  


The roster can be set on Privacy options...->Subscription
rules->private_roster to be viewable by Anyone, List members or the
List admin only. Even if it is viewable by anyone, the links to users
options page will normally take one to the user's login page.

If you clicked a random name and got to the user's actual options page,
you had the list admin cookie which allows you to visit any user's
options page.


>Are there settings on my end that I need to re-do?  Are there settings on
>Sonic's end?


Yes, you need to be sure that Privacy options...->Subscription
rules->private_roster is set to List members or List admin only as you
prefer.

You also have to recognize that once you've logged in to the admin
interface for a list, you have the admin cookie for the duration of
your browser session unless you explicitly log out from the admin
interface. With that cookie, you can visit any users options page from
the roster (and change their options), just as you can from the admin
membership list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cyndi at tikvah.com  Sun Dec  2 01:58:54 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 16:58:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Viewing Full Subscriber & Subscriber Security
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007120115324509216e358f46@msapiro> (message from Mark
	Sapiro on Sat, 1 Dec 2007 15:32:45 -0800)
References: <PC17602007120115324509216e358f46@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200712020058.lB20wsqh026553@b.mail.sonic.net>

   Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 15:32:45 -0800
   From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>

   There are bug reports and feature requests in the sourceforge tracker
   about this and lots of email in the archives. I'm embarrased to say
   one of the bug reports is mine and I've never fixed it. See
   <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1072002&group_id=103&atid=100103>,
   <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=782436&group_id=103&atid=350103>
   and
   <http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org++inurl%3Amailman++admin_member_chunksize>

Well, there are things that have been in my inbox for years too :)

But if you want a "me too" for making it a priority, here it is.

   The short answer is the Mailman admins at the ISP have to do it. There
   is a site configuration setting DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE which
   defaults to 30 and sets the list's admin_member_chunksize attribute at
   list create time. This in turn is the number above which the
   membership is 'chunked'.

Thanks, I will pass this on to the site admins.

   >Then there is a security question.  When I got the roster (requiring no
   >password), each name on the list was clickable.  When I clicked on a
   >name, it took me to the subscription page for that person.  Without
   >requiring a password.  When I did it for my own name I figured that my
   >password was just in a cookie.  But it works for a random name too.

   If this were a real security issue, it should be posted per
   <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp>
   (see Security Policy in the list footer), but I don't think it is.

Nodding.  That is good news.

   >Of course, the roster page should be passworded too...is it really
   >possible for anyone to view my subscriber list?  Can those of you who
   >don't have a Sonic IP view it?

   The roster can be set on Privacy options...->Subscription
   rules->private_roster to be viewable by Anyone, List members or the
   List admin only. Even if it is viewable by anyone, the links to users
   options page will normally take one to the user's login page.

I do have the list set to Who can view subscription list?: List admin
only. 

   If you clicked a random name and got to the user's actual options page,
   you had the list admin cookie which allows you to visit any user's
   options page.

Okay.

Can anyone else see my roster?
http://lists.sonic.net/mailman/roster/lcveg

Thanks,
Cyndi

P.S. That test of HTML options you asked for is still on my to-do list.


From cyndi at tikvah.com  Sun Dec  2 02:06:47 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 17:06:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass Subscribe Option
Message-ID: <200712020106.lB216llE029886@b.mail.sonic.net>

Okay, another question.

I am migrating lists from another system and the easiest way to do this is
to use mass subscribe and just put all the old users into it.  With a few
warnings on the existing list that anyone who doesn't want to be moved
needs to unsub now.

When I use mass subscribe at Sonic.net, the text indicates I'll have a
choice of actually subscribing the addresses or inviting them.  But there
is no choice.  It just goes directly to invite.

This has been a problem because, for one list I've migrated, there are
about 65 subscribers who have responded to the invite (I've done it twice
along with several posts to the existing list with links to the direct sub
page) and about 250 who haven't.  Only one person has asked not to be
migrated.  In some cases, friends of mine haven't responded to the invite
(and said they didn't see the requests...because they weren't paying
attention, not because they weren't sent).

I'd really like to sub everyone and be done with it.

I assume this is a setting on Sonic's end?  I posted to the local usenet
group for mailman and got no reply (their tech support prefers to use
usenet for anything that's not a basic issue and they are good about
replying except in the mailman group, which is rarely used).

If someone can confirm my suspicion and give me the details, I will pass it
on to Sonic tech support and see if they can do something about it.  I
suspect it was set this way on purpose as an antispam measure, but it's a
big inconveince for those of us migrating legitimate lists.

Thanks,
Cyndi


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Dec  2 02:34:26 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 17:34:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass Subscribe Option
In-Reply-To: <200712020106.lB216llE029886@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602007120117342602189214fd54@msapiro>

Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
>
>When I use mass subscribe at Sonic.net, the text indicates I'll have a
>choice of actually subscribing the addresses or inviting them.  But there
>is no choice.  It just goes directly to invite.


I'm not aware of any bugs in this specific function, so I can only
assume that this is a sonic.net 'feature' to force you to invite only.
Why they wouldn't also fix the web page to make it clear is beyond me,
but mass subscribe works in all the Mailman versions that I have any
experience with.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ivaldes at hal-pc.org  Sun Dec  2 05:21:13 2007
From: ivaldes at hal-pc.org (Ignacio Valdes)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 22:21:13 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] httpd.conf Rewrite rules with ZOPE to use mailman.
Message-ID: <311679a80712012021r22c55ce8oa22300bde603213a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I'm running a Zope instance that requires me to have re-write rules
(below) in httpd.conf that are not compatible with Mailman. I can use
mailman if I don't use the Zope re-write rules or I can use Zope but
not mailman with the re-write rules below. This seems like a black art
to me. Is there a way to change the re-write rules so that they both
work at the same time? Thanks!

NameVirtualHost 72.51.39.124:80

    <VirtualHost 72.51.39.124:80>
    ServerName brainimagingnews.net
    ServerAdmin webmaster at brainimagingnews.net
    ProxyPass /
http://localhost:8080/VirtualHostBase/http/brainimagingnews.net:80/brainimagingnews/VirtualHostRoot/
    ProxyPassReverse /
http://localhost:8080/VirtualHostBase/http/brainimagingnews.net:80/brainimagingnews/VirtualHostRoot/
    </VirtualHost>

    <VirtualHost 72.51.39.124:80>
    ServerName www.brainimagingnews.net
#    ServerAlias *
# redirects everything
    Redirect permanent / http://brainimagingnews.net/
   </VirtualHost>


My mailman.conf looks like this:

#
#  httpd configuration settings for use with mailman.
#

ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
<Directory /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/>
    AllowOverride None
    Options ExecCGI
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>


Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
<Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public>
    Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
    AllowOverride None
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Dec  2 07:59:26 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 22:59:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass Subscribe Option
In-Reply-To: <200712020106.lB216llE029886@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712012259260812edeb0026@msapiro>

Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
>
>If someone can confirm my suspicion and give me the details, I will pass it
>on to Sonic tech support and see if they can do something about it.  I
>suspect it was set this way on purpose as an antispam measure, but it's a
>big inconveince for those of us migrating legitimate lists.


As I said in my prior reply, I suspect this is intentional on Sonic's
part, but you may be able to negotiate with them to do a one time add
for you from a list provided by you. The command line add_members tool
should still be functional. It takes a file of lines like

Jane Doe <jdoe at example.com>

and adds each name/address to the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From chris at westnet.com  Sun Dec  2 14:44:05 2007
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 08:44:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] httpd.conf Rewrite rules with ZOPE to use
	mailman.
In-Reply-To: <311679a80712012021r22c55ce8oa22300bde603213a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <311679a80712012021r22c55ce8oa22300bde603213a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0712020843180.15894@westnet.com>

On Sat, 1 Dec 2007, Ignacio Valdes wrote:

> I'm running a Zope instance that requires me to have re-write rules
> (below) in httpd.conf that are not compatible with Mailman. I can use
> mailman if I don't use the Zope re-write rules or I can use Zope but
> not mailman with the re-write rules below. This seems like a black art
> to me. Is there a way to change the re-write rules so that they both
> work at the same time? Thanks!

The easiest thing may be to set up another NameVirtualHost  
mailman.brainimagingnews.net  to run mailman that doesn't have the re-write 
rules.


==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 948-3162
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/

From noel.dacosta at magharl.co.uk  Sun Dec  2 16:54:14 2007
From: noel.dacosta at magharl.co.uk (Noel da Costa)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 17:54:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MX records
Message-ID: <41CA34F2-C292-4BB7-9A3B-E118B48EBF12@magharl.co.uk>

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies so far.

> From: "Shadow" <Shadow at shadowsnetwork.com>
> I would say that this line shows the problem
> Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 <newlist at mydomain.co.uk>: invalid address

Yes, I agree.. but I'm not sure how to add a mail alias to my domain  
if not through the admin console.


> From: Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
> Option #2 would probably be closest, but what you'd have to do is  
> to set up the ten aliases needed for each list to be forwarded to a  
> local program on the machine.  If your hosting provider doesn't  
> allow that, then you can't use their interface to set up aliases.

I have root access, so it should be possible, I just don't know how.


> If your provider is using an MTA like postfix, with the right  
> options specified in the Mailman configuration file then you can  
> use mechanisms built into Mailman that can automatically generate  
> the necessary aliases for you, and postfix will automatically pick  
> up those changes on-the-fly.  However, this also requires  
> modification to the postfix configuration files, and if your  
> provider doesn't allow that, then obviously this won't be an option  
> for you.

It sounds, from what you are saying, that I shouldn't need to set the  
aliases up manually via the management console if Postfix is  
correctly integrated. I looked through the Mailman manual, at the bit  
which says Postfix Integration, but to be honest, it was all greek to  
me.

Anyone care to help me through it?


Many thanks,


Noel da Costa

Lead Developer
Magnet Harlequin

T: 01895 432400
F: 01895 432444
E: noel.dacosta at magharl.co.uk
W: http://www.magharl.co.uk

This e-mail is intended solely for the addressees named above and any  
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From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Dec  2 17:20:10 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 10:20:10 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MX records
In-Reply-To: <41CA34F2-C292-4BB7-9A3B-E118B48EBF12@magharl.co.uk>
References: <41CA34F2-C292-4BB7-9A3B-E118B48EBF12@magharl.co.uk>
Message-ID: <p06240800c3788b438c86@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/2/07, Noel da Costa wrote:

>  It sounds, from what you are saying, that I shouldn't need to set the
>  aliases up manually via the management console if Postfix is
>  correctly integrated.

Correct.  What will happen is that, as new lists are created, Mailman 
will add the appropriate aliases to a second file, which postfix will 
be told how to read, and postfix will automatically pick up all 
changes.  However, postfix will also be told not to otherwise try to 
manage the second aliases file in question -- Mailman will do that 
instead.

>                         I looked through the Mailman manual, at the bit
>  which says Postfix Integration, but to be honest, it was all greek to
>  me.
>
>  Anyone care to help me through it?

Regretfully, that's not something I've got time to help with right now.  ;(

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From ajmiller at psu.edu  Mon Dec  3 04:24:32 2007
From: ajmiller at psu.edu (Andrew Miller)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 22:24:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Digest Content-Transfer-Encoding
Message-ID: <A7CE5928-E3A2-459E-A524-EDC6BF63915A@psu.edu>

Hi,
We run Mailman 2.1.5 on Mac OS X 10.4.11 Server. Postfix 2.1.5 is the  
SMTP server. A number of our subscribers who are sent digests are not  
able to receive them. The digest messages are bouncing with the error  
message:

Action: failed
Status: 5.6.1
Diagnostic-Code: smtp;554 5.6.1 Body type not supported by Remote Host

Many of these digests are sent with the header Content-Transfer- 
Encoding: 8bit, and I am wondering if this is what is causing some of  
our subscribers to not receive these messages.

Has anyone else here experienced this problem, and is there a way to  
force Mailman to generate digests using the quoted-printable encoding  
instead? Or possibly, is there a way to get Postfix to translate to  
quoted-printable? We have recently migrated to Mailman from a  
different list serve program, and never had this problem with digests  
with the older list serve.

-- Andrew




From ivaldes at hal-pc.org  Mon Dec  3 07:24:55 2007
From: ivaldes at hal-pc.org (Ignacio Valdes)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 00:24:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] httpd.conf Rewrite rules with ZOPE to use
	mailman.
In-Reply-To: <redirect-460998233@mail.hal-pc.org>
References: <311679a80712012021r22c55ce8oa22300bde603213a@mail.gmail.com>
	<redirect-460998233@mail.hal-pc.org>
Message-ID: <311679a80712022224v6f41f136q817f670cb37cafd9@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Chris, A ServerBeach admin added this to httpd.conf

  <VirtualHost 72.51.39.124:80>
   DocumentRoot /var/www/html
   ServerAdmin webmaster at brainimagingnews.net
   </VirtualHost>

which fixed it so that I can use both Zope and and I can now get to
the Mailman web interface page, but I get an error with the archive
URL and I don't know how to get it to be a good URL for each domain
for each list.  I moved these Mailman lists from another ISP's servers
that previously hosted http://linuxmednews.com for many years and
others which are now hosted on 72  .5 1.3 x9 . 124. (remove spaces and
the x for the real IP) The flagship Mailman list is
linuxmednews-announce which previously was at
http://www.linuxmednews.com/mailman/listinfo/linuxmednews-announce and
which I've moved over but when I attempt to get to the archive page
from http://72  .5  1.3  9x.124/mailman/listinfo/linuxmednews-announce
it cannot find the page. I have changed the URL's using withlist
command to no effect.

The target should be that one can get to the Mailman page from
http://www.linuxmednews.com/mailman/listinfo/linuxmednews-announce and
that one can get to the archive from that page as well as of course be
able to send announcement by the list admin which is me.

Your help is much appreciated, if I/we can figure out how to get this
one working, I should be able to do the others on my own. Thanks!

-- IV

On Dec 2, 2007 7:44 AM, Christopher X. Candreva <chris at westnet.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Dec 2007, Ignacio Valdes wrote:
>
> > I'm running a Zope instance that requires me to have re-write rules
> > (below) in httpd.conf that are not compatible with Mailman. I can use
> > mailman if I don't use the Zope re-write rules or I can use Zope but
> > not mailman with the re-write rules below. This seems like a black art
> > to me. Is there a way to change the re-write rules so that they both
> > work at the same time? Thanks!
>
> The easiest thing may be to set up another NameVirtualHost
> mailman.brainimagingnews.net  to run mailman that doesn't have the re-write
> rules.
>
>
> ==========================================================
> Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 948-3162
> WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
> http://www.westnet.com/
>

From ivaldes at hal-pc.org  Mon Dec  3 07:43:07 2007
From: ivaldes at hal-pc.org (Ignacio Valdes)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 00:43:07 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] httpd.conf Rewrite rules with ZOPE to use
	mailman.
In-Reply-To: <311679a80712012021r22c55ce8oa22300bde603213a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <311679a80712012021r22c55ce8oa22300bde603213a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <311679a80712022243u1bec84acs7b02d330dcdaafa@mail.gmail.com>

Also, my mailman.conf file looks like this which should redirect to
the archives and everything else properly but doesn't seem too. -- IV

#
#  httpd configuration settings for use with mailman.
#

ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
<Directory /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/>
    AllowOverride None
    Options ExecCGI
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>


Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
<Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public>
    Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
    AllowOverride None
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

# Uncomment the following line, replacing www.example.com with your server's
# name, to redirect queries to /mailman to the listinfo page (recommended).

 RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ http://72.51.39.124/mailman/listinfo


On Dec 1, 2007 10:21 PM, Ignacio Valdes <ivaldes at hal-pc.org> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm running a Zope instance that requires me to have re-write rules
> (below) in httpd.conf that are not compatible with Mailman. I can use
> mailman if I don't use the Zope re-write rules or I can use Zope but
> not mailman with the re-write rules below. This seems like a black art
> to me. Is there a way to change the re-write rules so that they both
> work at the same time? Thanks!
>
> NameVirtualHost 72.51.39.124:80
>
>     <VirtualHost 72.51.39.124:80>
>     ServerName brainimagingnews.net
>     ServerAdmin webmaster at brainimagingnews.net
>     ProxyPass /
> http://localhost:8080/VirtualHostBase/http/brainimagingnews.net:80/brainimagingnews/VirtualHostRoot/
>     ProxyPassReverse /
> http://localhost:8080/VirtualHostBase/http/brainimagingnews.net:80/brainimagingnews/VirtualHostRoot/
>     </VirtualHost>
>
>     <VirtualHost 72.51.39.124:80>
>     ServerName www.brainimagingnews.net
> #    ServerAlias *
> # redirects everything
>     Redirect permanent / http://brainimagingnews.net/
>    </VirtualHost>
>
>
> My mailman.conf looks like this:
>
> #
> #  httpd configuration settings for use with mailman.
> #
>
> ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
> <Directory /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/>
>     AllowOverride None
>     Options ExecCGI
>     Order allow,deny
>     Allow from all
> </Directory>
>
>
> Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
> <Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public>
>     Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
>     AllowOverride None
>     Order allow,deny
>     Allow from all
> </Directory>
>

From ivaldes at hal-pc.org  Mon Dec  3 08:10:45 2007
From: ivaldes at hal-pc.org (Ignacio Valdes)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 01:10:45 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] httpd.conf Rewrite rules with ZOPE to use
	mailman.
In-Reply-To: <311679a80712022243u1bec84acs7b02d330dcdaafa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <311679a80712012021r22c55ce8oa22300bde603213a@mail.gmail.com>
	<311679a80712022243u1bec84acs7b02d330dcdaafa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <311679a80712022310u6ba5a0a0va8ae847973af9228@mail.gmail.com>

Finally, I changed using withlist the URL to the IP address and that
made things point to things in a better fashion, but now I get the
infamous message:

Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /pipermail/linuxmednews-announce
on this server.
Apache/2.2.6 (Fedora) Server at 7 2.5 1.3 x9 .1 24 (remove spaces and
x for the real IP) Port 80

I've checked the permission with check_perms and I did the chmod o-x
private thing but no change, it is still forbidden to go to the
archives.

-- IV

On Dec 3, 2007 12:43 AM, Ignacio Valdes <ivaldes at hal-pc.org> wrote:
> Also, my mailman.conf file looks like this which should redirect to
> the archives and everything else properly but doesn't seem too. -- IV
>
> #
> #  httpd configuration settings for use with mailman.
> #
>
> ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
> <Directory /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/>
>     AllowOverride None
>     Options ExecCGI
>     Order allow,deny
>     Allow from all
> </Directory>
>
>
> Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
> <Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public>
>     Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
>     AllowOverride None
>     Order allow,deny
>     Allow from all
> </Directory>
>
> # Uncomment the following line, replacing www.example.com with your server's
> # name, to redirect queries to /mailman to the listinfo page (recommended).
>
>  RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ http://72.51.39.124/mailman/listinfo
>
>
>
> On Dec 1, 2007 10:21 PM, Ignacio Valdes <ivaldes at hal-pc.org> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm running a Zope instance that requires me to have re-write rules
> > (below) in httpd.conf that are not compatible with Mailman. I can use
> > mailman if I don't use the Zope re-write rules or I can use Zope but
> > not mailman with the re-write rules below. This seems like a black art
> > to me. Is there a way to change the re-write rules so that they both
> > work at the same time? Thanks!
> >
> > NameVirtualHost 72.51.39.124:80
> >
> >     <VirtualHost 72.51.39.124:80>
> >     ServerName brainimagingnews.net
> >     ServerAdmin webmaster at brainimagingnews.net
> >     ProxyPass /
> > http://localhost:8080/VirtualHostBase/http/brainimagingnews.net:80/brainimagingnews/VirtualHostRoot/
> >     ProxyPassReverse /
> > http://localhost:8080/VirtualHostBase/http/brainimagingnews.net:80/brainimagingnews/VirtualHostRoot/
> >     </VirtualHost>
> >
> >     <VirtualHost 72.51.39.124:80>
> >     ServerName www.brainimagingnews.net
> > #    ServerAlias *
> > # redirects everything
> >     Redirect permanent / http://brainimagingnews.net/
> >    </VirtualHost>
> >
> >
> > My mailman.conf looks like this:
> >
> > #
> > #  httpd configuration settings for use with mailman.
> > #
> >
> > ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
> > <Directory /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/>
> >     AllowOverride None
> >     Options ExecCGI
> >     Order allow,deny
> >     Allow from all
> > </Directory>
> >
> >
> > Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
> > <Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public>
> >     Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
> >     AllowOverride None
> >     Order allow,deny
> >     Allow from all
> > </Directory>
> >
>

From carnold at electrichendrix.com  Mon Dec  3 17:00:44 2007
From: carnold at electrichendrix.com (Chris Arnold)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 11:00:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
Message-ID: <4754282C.4010303@electrichendrix.com>

Hello all! First, thanks to Mark for all your help.
Second, we use mailman 2.1.7 (novell rpm) on SLES10/OES2. The mailman
system has postix installed and we can send email via postfix with no
problems. I created a list and got the confirmation email. I joined
using a yahoo email account and our mytimewithgod domain email. When i
send a message to the list, i do not get an email at the yahoo account.
I look in the /var/log/email log and do not see where the message is
even being sent. The list is at
http://lists.mytimewithgod.net/mailman/listinfo/mtwg-prayer. Any help is
appreciated

From vicki at stanfield.net  Mon Dec  3 16:38:13 2007
From: vicki at stanfield.net (mailbox@stanfield.net)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:38:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't use newly created mailman list on Fedora 7
Message-ID: <30318258.1196696293733.JavaMail.?@fh1039.dia.cp.net>

I recently installed mailman on my Fedora 7 box and when I created a 
test list and
tried to email a message to it, my message gets returned with the 
following in it:

-------------------------------------
This is the mail system at host mail.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.

                   The mail system

<test-request at thepenguin.org>: Command died with status 1:
    "/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request test". Command output: 
Traceback (most
recent call last):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/request", line 64, 
in
<module>     main()   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/request", line 
59, in main 
   _plaintext=1)   File
    "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 132, in 
enqueue fp =
open(tmpfile, 'w') IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/var/spool/mailman/commands/1196694091.
16115+07cc7716bbb2ff1c11fbed56a95d1955412fd903.pck.tmp'
----------------------------

Looks like the permissions are wrong on the location where Switchboard.
py is trying
to create the file. Is that correct? And where would that be?

Vicki Stanfield

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec  3 17:27:18 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 08:27:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <4754282C.4010303@electrichendrix.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020071203082718020308ebcd9d@msapiro>

Chris Arnold wrote:

>Second, we use mailman 2.1.7 (novell rpm) on SLES10/OES2. The mailman
>system has postix installed and we can send email via postfix with no
>problems.


FYI, there may eventually be problems sending to some recipients
because you appear to have a dynamic IP with DNS at mydyndns.org.


>I created a list and got the confirmation email. I joined
>using a yahoo email account and our mytimewithgod domain email. When i
>send a message to the list, i do not get an email at the yahoo account.


Does this mean you do get the mail at "our mytimewithgod domain email"?

If so, or if the post is in the list archive (which I can't see because
you apparently don't have the 'pipermail' alias in your web server),
then at least the post is getting to Mailman.

>I look in the /var/log/email log and do not see where the message is
>even being sent. The list is at
>http://lists.mytimewithgod.net/mailman/listinfo/mtwg-prayer. Any help is
>appreciated


What is in Mailman's post and smtp logs?

Have you gone through the steps at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec  3 17:35:34 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 08:35:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't use newly created mailman list on Fedora 7
In-Reply-To: <30318258.1196696293733.JavaMail.?@fh1039.dia.cp.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020071203083534018708ebcd9d@msapiro>

"mailbox at stanfield.net" <vicki at stanfield.net> wrote:

>I recently installed mailman on my Fedora 7 box and when I created a 
>test list and
>tried to email a message to it, my message gets returned with the 
>following in it:
<snip>
>
><test-request at thepenguin.org>: Command died with status 1:
>    "/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request test". Command output: 
>Traceback (most
>recent call last):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/request", line 64, 
>in
><module>     main()   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/request", line 
>59, in main 
>   _plaintext=1)   File
>    "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 132, in 
>enqueue fp =
>open(tmpfile, 'w') IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/var/spool/mailman/commands/1196694091.
>16115+07cc7716bbb2ff1c11fbed56a95d1955412fd903.pck.tmp'
>----------------------------
>
>Looks like the permissions are wrong on the location where Switchboard.
>py is trying
>to create the file. Is that correct? And where would that be?


/var/spool/mailman/commands/ just like it says.

Try running Mailman's 'bin/check_perms -f' as root to fix the
permissions. It looks like this is RedHat FHS compliant Mailman so
that would be /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms.

If check_perms doesn't fix the problem, it might be a SeLinux issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From carnold at electrichendrix.com  Mon Dec  3 17:43:51 2007
From: carnold at electrichendrix.com (Chris Arnold)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 11:43:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <PC176020071203082718020308ebcd9d@msapiro>
References: <PC176020071203082718020308ebcd9d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47543247.3070101@electrichendrix.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Chris Arnold wrote:
>   
>
>
> FYI, there may eventually be problems sending to some recipients
> because you appear to have a dynamic IP with DNS at mydyndns.org.
>   
Yes, we also have a "smarthost" (i forward mail to this smarthost and it
has a static ip and it will always be able to deliver email).
>
>
> Does this mean you do get the mail at "our mytimewithgod domain email"?
>   
Yes, domain email is working and the system that has postfix is working
> If so, or if the post is in the list archive (which I can't see because
> you apparently don't have the 'pipermail' alias in your web server),
> then at least the post is getting to Mailman.
>   
>
>
> What is in Mailman's post and smtp logs?
Does mailman have specific logs (if so, where, i can not find any)? B/C
there is nothing in the /var/log/mail log files that pertain to mailman

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec  3 17:49:49 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 08:49:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] httpd.conf Rewrite rules with ZOPE to
	usemailman.
In-Reply-To: <311679a80712022310u6ba5a0a0va8ae847973af9228@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007120308494902509d53dfab@msapiro>

Ignacio Valdes wrote:
>
>You don't have permission to access /pipermail/linuxmednews-announce
>on this server.
>Apache/2.2.6 (Fedora) Server at 7 2.5 1.3 x9 .1 24 (remove spaces and
>x for the real IP) Port 80
>
>I've checked the permission with check_perms and I did the chmod o-x
>private thing but no change, it is still forbidden to go to the
>archives.
>>
>> Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
>> <Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public>
>>     Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
>>     AllowOverride None
>>     Order allow,deny
>>     Allow from all
>> </Directory>


The above looks good, so I think the issue may be that
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private has to be searchable by the web
server. That directory must be in Mailman's group and must have
permissions drwxrws--x, or if you choose to remove the world
searchable permission and make it drwxrws---, you must make the owner
(not the group) be the web server user. See the 'Warning' box at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node9.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From carnold at electrichendrix.com  Mon Dec  3 17:54:43 2007
From: carnold at electrichendrix.com (Chris Arnold)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 11:54:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <PC176020071203082718020308ebcd9d@msapiro>
References: <PC176020071203082718020308ebcd9d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <475434D3.5090301@electrichendrix.com>

I also meant to put in the last post, the following when running
check_perms:
Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
         This could allow other users on your system to read private
archives.
         If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
         installation manual on how to fix this.


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec  3 18:03:24 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 09:03:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <47543247.3070101@electrichendrix.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007120309032409844d998c30@msapiro>

Chris Arnold wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> Does this mean you do get the mail at "our mytimewithgod domain email"?
>>   
>Yes, domain email is working and the system that has postfix is working


Then Mailman is getting the mail and sending it and the problem is with
delivery from Postfix to Yahoo.

>> What is in Mailman's post and smtp logs?
>Does mailman have specific logs (if so, where, i can not find any)? B/C
>there is nothing in the /var/log/mail log files that pertain to mailman


Yes, Mailman has log files. With a source install, they are in
~mailman/logs (/usr/local/mailman/logs by default). If you can't find
them, look in mm_cfg.py and Defaults.py for the definition of LOG_DIR.

Look specifically at smtp and smtp-failure.

Also, what is your mm_cfg.py setting (if any, if not Defaults.py) for
SMTPHOST. If it is the default 'localhost' then your mail is
definitely going through the local postfix and if anyone is getting
it, there should be something in maillog. Try

  grep mtwg-prayer /var/log/maillog

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Mon Dec  3 18:07:37 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:07:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customize Reject Messages?
Message-ID: <475437D9.3080901@Media-Brokers.com>

Hi,

Is there a way to customize the rejection messages? Specifically, I want 
to customize the rejection message that a non-member who posts to a list 
that he is on the "List of non-member addresses whose postings should be 
automatically accepted."...

Currently they get this, if the message is too big:

"Your mail to 'Remnants' with the subject

     testing too big

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

     Message body is too big: 2236114 bytes with a limit of 256 KB"

I'd like to change it...

Thanks,

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From carnold at electrichendrix.com  Mon Dec  3 18:27:54 2007
From: carnold at electrichendrix.com (Chris Arnold)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:27:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007120309032409844d998c30@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007120309032409844d998c30@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47543C9A.5080003@electrichendrix.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Chris Arnold wrote:
>
>   
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> Then Mailman is getting the mail and sending it and the problem is with
>> delivery from Postfix to Yahoo.
The mailman logs does not show anything about getting mail. Problems to
yahoo, comcast, gmail and other domains? In the last install all those
worked before.
>> Yes, Mailman has log files. With a source install, they are in
>> ~mailman/logs (/usr/local/mailman/logs by default). If you can't find
>> them, look in mm_cfg.py and Defaults.py for the definition of LOG_DIR.
>>     
Logs are attached (i am not fond of the addresses being indexed. So
Mark, if you can, please delete the attachments)
>> Look specifically at smtp and smtp-failure.
>>
>> Also, what is your mm_cfg.py setting (if any, if not Defaults.py) for
>> SMTPHOST. If it is the default 'localhost' then your mail is
>> definitely going through the local postfix and if anyone is getting
>> it, there should be something in maillog. Try
>>
>>   grep mtwg-prayer /var/log/maillog
>>     
It is set for 'localhost'

Also, accroding to
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp step 2:
#grep wrapper /etc/aliases
#majordomo:             "|/usr/lib/majordomo/wrapper majordomo"
#test:                  "|/usr/lib/majordomo/wrapper resend -l test
test-outgoing"
#test-request:          "|/usr/lib/majordomo/wrapper majordomo -l test"

# grep mailman /etc/aliases
mailman:        root
mailman-owner:  mailman

It appears that there aren't any aliases. Step 6:
shows 2 locked files. They are master-qrunner and
master-qrunner.web.26733. These files are in /var/lib/mailman/locks
And i feel the need to say 2 domains (electrichendrix.com and
mytimewithgod.net). The list is on mytimewithgod.net and the mail server
is on electrichendrix.com.

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From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec  3 18:39:13 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 09:39:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <475434D3.5090301@electrichendrix.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712030939130968ceaa0535@msapiro>

Chris Arnold wrote:

>I also meant to put in the last post, the following when running
>check_perms:
>Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
>         This could allow other users on your system to read private
>archives.
>         If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
>         installation manual on how to fix this.


This directory needs to be searchable by the web server or public
archives won't work. See the post at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-December/059288.html>
for information about this and the 'pipermail' alias you need to make
public archives work.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From carnold at electrichendrix.com  Mon Dec  3 18:58:54 2007
From: carnold at electrichendrix.com (Chris Arnold)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:58:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712030939130968ceaa0535@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200712030939130968ceaa0535@msapiro>
Message-ID: <475443DE.2090700@electrichendrix.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Chris Arnold wrote:
>
> This directory needs to be searchable by the web server or public
> archives won't work. See the post at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-December/059288.html>
> for information about this and the 'pipermail' alias you need to make
> public archives work.
Thats fine but i first want to get the emails working to the list.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec  3 19:03:02 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10:03:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customize Reject Messages?
In-Reply-To: <475437D9.3080901@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007120310030203436024f2b9@msapiro>

Charles Marcus wrote:
>
>Is there a way to customize the rejection messages? Specifically, I want 
>to customize the rejection message that a non-member who posts to a list 
>that he is on the "List of non-member addresses whose postings should be 
>automatically accepted."...
>
>Currently they get this, if the message is too big:


The reject notice for a too big post is independent of whether the
poster is a list member or in accept_these_nonmembers.


>"Your mail to 'Remnants' with the subject
>
>     testing too big
>
>Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
>
>The reason it is being held:
>
>     Message body is too big: 2236114 bytes with a limit of 256 KB"
>
>I'd like to change it...


If all you want to change is the "Message body is too big: 2236114
bytes with a limit of 256 KB"" line, you have to change that by
editing the definition of reason_notice in the MessageTooBig class in
Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py

If you want to change the Hold notice in general for all held messages,
you can make a sitewide, domain-specific or list-specific version of
the postheld.txt template as discussed at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.

If you want to use a different template for only the 'too big' message,
that would require a significant code hack.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From vicki at stanfield.net  Mon Dec  3 19:36:24 2007
From: vicki at stanfield.net (mailbox@stanfield.net)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 18:36:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't use newly created mailman list on Fedora 7
Message-ID: <24060855.1196706984791.JavaMail.?@fh1037.dia.cp.net>

Thanks, Mark. I finally uninstalled, reinstalled, created mailman list, 
chmod o-x the archives, ran check_perms -f, and it works. Not sure how 
it got hosed, but I'm ok now.

Vicki

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec  3 19:41:23 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10:41:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <47543C9A.5080003@electrichendrix.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007120310412303904d9989dd@msapiro>

Chris Arnold wrote:

>Logs are attached (i am not fond of the addresses being indexed. So
>Mark, if you can, please delete the attachments)


Too late :-(

In any case, the addresses there are all part of Message-IDs, and
robots will pick up the whole thing which is not a good address.


>Also, accroding to
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp step 2:
>#grep wrapper /etc/aliases
>#majordomo:             "|/usr/lib/majordomo/wrapper majordomo"
>#test:                  "|/usr/lib/majordomo/wrapper resend -l test
>test-outgoing"
>#test-request:          "|/usr/lib/majordomo/wrapper majordomo -l test"
>
># grep mailman /etc/aliases
>mailman:        root
>mailman-owner:  mailman
>
>It appears that there aren't any aliases.


If there aren't aliases, you couldn't send any mail TO mailman. You
have Postfix integration (MTA = 'Postfix') so your aliases are in
Mailman's data/aliases and data/virtual-mailman files.


>Step 6:
>shows 2 locked files. They are master-qrunner and
>master-qrunner.web.26733. These files are in /var/lib/mailman/locks


The master-qrunner locks are normal. I have updated the FAQ.


>And i feel the need to say 2 domains (electrichendrix.com and
>mytimewithgod.net). The list is on mytimewithgod.net and the mail server
>is on electrichendrix.com.


But they are the same box ...


smtp log:
>
>Dec 02 22:04:35 2007 (9051) <mailman.0.1196650515.7856.mailman at web.electrichendrix.com> smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 453.140 seconds
<snip>

Every one of these log messages relates to a Mailman generated message
to a user or list owner. They all have Mailman generated Message-IDs
and are delivered to only one recipient. None of these are posts so we
are back to the "do posts even reach Mailman" question.

smtp-failure log:
>
>Dec 02 22:04:35 2007 (9051) Low level smtp error: (104, 'Connection reset by peer'), msgid: <mailman.0.1196650515.7856.mailman at web.electrichendrix.com>
>Dec 02 22:04:35 2007 (9051) delivery to administrator at mytimewithgod.net failed with code -1: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')


The above two messages relate to an error in delivery of only the first
of the smtp log messages.


>Dec 02 23:32:42 2007 (25746) Low level smtp error: (4, 'Interrupted system call'), msgid: <mailman.0.1196650515.7856.mailman at web.electrichendrix.com>


And this is a retry of the previous failure which also failed for a
different reason.


>Dec 02 23:41:18 2007 (25746) delivery to administrator at mytimewithgod.net failed with code -1: (4, 'Interrupted system call')


And this would appear to be the second entry along with the message
above except for the time stamp, Is this the full log?

It is not clear what these errors mean. If they are not persistent,
they may be the result of some manual intervention with the MTA. What
is in the maillog relating to these?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec  3 19:53:06 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10:53:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't use newly created mailman list on Fedora 7
In-Reply-To: <24060855.1196706984791.JavaMail.?@fh1037.dia.cp.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602007120310530605934d998a97@msapiro>

"mailbox at stanfield.net" <vicki at stanfield.net> wrote:

>Thanks, Mark. I finally uninstalled, reinstalled, created mailman list, 
>chmod o-x the archives, ran check_perms -f, and it works. Not sure how 
>it got hosed, but I'm ok now.


If you mean you ran chmod o-x on archives/private, see the Warning box
at <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node9.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From carnold at electrichendrix.com  Mon Dec  3 20:03:29 2007
From: carnold at electrichendrix.com (Chris Arnold)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:03:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007120310412303904d9989dd@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007120310412303904d9989dd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47545301.4080309@electrichendrix.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> If there aren't aliases, you couldn't send any mail TO mailman. You
> have Postfix integration (MTA = 'Postfix') so your aliases are in
> Mailman's data/aliases and data/virtual-mailman files.
>   
So could this be why it is not working?
>> And i feel the need to say 2 domains (electrichendrix.com and
>> mytimewithgod.net). The list is on mytimewithgod.net and the mail server
>> is on electrichendrix.com.
>>
>> But they are the same box ...
>>     
No, they are different boxes
>>
>> smtp log:
>>     
>> Dec 02 22:04:35 2007 (9051) <mailman.0.1196650515.7856.mailman at web.electrichendrix.com> smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 453.140 seconds
>>     
> <snip>
>
> Every one of these log messages relates to a Mailman generated message
> to a user or list owner. They all have Mailman generated Message-IDs
> and are delivered to only one recipient. None of these are posts so we
> are back to the "do posts even reach Mailman" question.
>   
> smtp-failure log:
>   
>> Dec 02 22:04:35 2007 (9051) Low level smtp error: (104, 'Connection reset by peer'), msgid: <mailman.0.1196650515.7856.mailman at web.electrichendrix.com>
>> Dec 02 22:04:35 2007 (9051) delivery to administrator at mytimewithgod.net failed with code -1: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')
>>     
Shouldn't <mailman.0.1196650515.7856.mailman at web.electrichendrix.com> be
<mailman.0.1196650515.7856.mailman at _lists.mytimewithgod.net>_
>
>   
>> Dec 02 23:41:18 2007 (25746) delivery to administrator at mytimewithgod.net failed with code -1: (4, 'Interrupted system call')
>>     
>
>
> And this would appear to be the second entry along with the message
> above except for the time stamp, Is this the full log?
>   
Yes, these are the full logs
> It is not clear what these errors mean. If they are not persistent,
> they may be the result of some manual intervention with the MTA. What
> is in the maillog relating to these?
That's just what is more confusing, they don't even reference anything
to these.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec  3 20:17:56 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 11:17:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <47545301.4080309@electrichendrix.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007120311175606099d53e119@msapiro>

Chris Arnold wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> But they are the same box ...
>>>     
>No, they are different boxes


They look the same to me from the outside. So are you saying that there
is a local network behind the one externally visible IP.

That would explain a few things such as mailman is talking to an MTA on
localhost and not to Postfix on the other box so that's why there is
nothing in the maillog on the other box.

Also Postfix on the other box can't deliver to a non-local Mailman.


>> It is not clear what these errors mean. If they are not persistent,
>> they may be the result of some manual intervention with the MTA. What
>> is in the maillog relating to these?
>That's just what is more confusing, they don't even reference anything
>to these.


Try looking in the log of the MTA that Mailman is talking to on it's
own 'localhost'

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lists.mailman-users at duinheks.xs4all.nl  Mon Dec  3 20:46:58 2007
From: lists.mailman-users at duinheks.xs4all.nl (lists.mailman-users at duinheks.xs4all.nl)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:46:58 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ? accessing public archives
Message-ID: <20071203200247.26CF420129F@duinheks.xs4all.nl>

Hallo Mark,

Op zondag 25 november 2007 schreef Mark Sapiro aan
lists.mailman-users at duinheks.xs4al:

 >> MS> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node9.html>.
 >> This link cannot be found :(
 MS> It works for me, but there are mirrors at
 MS> <http://mailman.sf.net/mailman-install/node9.html> and
 MS> <http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node9.html>

Strange that it doesn't work for me. But never mind, I found the
information I needed.

 MS> Also, since you are apparently installing from source, it is in
 MS> the source directory at admin/www/mailman-install/node9.html.

Because I have problems reading a graphics screen, I tend not to
look at .html files, but print the .ps or .pdf, if available.

 >> But I think I found what you mean :)
 MS> The warning box I refer to talks about the necessity for the web
 MS> server to have search (x) permission on the archives/private
 MS> directory

Right.

 >> server (postfix) was running with group mailman instead of bbs.
 >> But postfix does not belong to group mailman...
 MS> Postfix runs a pipe as the user that owns the aliases file in
 MS> which the pipe is found.

OK, That's nice to know.

Thank you very much for your help.

Groeten,

           Hans.

jdh punt beekhuizen bij duinheks punt xs4all punt nl

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5/071030
 * Origin: The Wizard is using MBSE/Linux (2:280/1018)

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Mon Dec  3 20:38:30 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:38:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Release date for 2.1.20?
Message-ID: <47545B36.40801@Media-Brokers.com>

Hi,

I know, I hate this kind of question, but, it's been 15 months since 
2.1.19 was released, and I was just wondering if there was any kind of 
tentative, planned guesstimated release date for 2.1.20...

Thanks...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From carnold at electrichendrix.com  Mon Dec  3 21:35:43 2007
From: carnold at electrichendrix.com (Chris Arnold)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:35:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007120311175606099d53e119@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007120311175606099d53e119@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4754689F.3060801@electrichendrix.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
> They look the same to me from the outside. So are you saying that there
> is a local network behind the one externally visible IP.
>   
That is correct a web server(postfix and mailman) and a mail server
(different servers).
> That would explain a few things such as mailman is talking to an MTA on
> localhost and not to Postfix on the other box so that's why there is
> nothing in the maillog on the other box.
>
> Also Postfix on the other box can't deliver to a non-local Mailman.
>   
Postfix and mailman are local (on the same system webserver)
>
>
> Try looking in the log of the MTA that Mailman is talking to on it's
> own 'localhost'
>   
Thats where i am looking and there is nothing in regards to mailman
I have the mailserver set to forward all mail to
<someone>@lists.mytimewithgod.net to the webserver which has postfix and
mailman


From campbell at cnpapers.com  Mon Dec  3 21:21:02 2007
From: campbell at cnpapers.com (Steve Campbell)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:21:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing to maillist + others
Message-ID: <4754652E.4050106@cnpapers.com>

A strange thing happened recently, and I know the sender is going to ask 
me about this.

I have set up a notification list for a department here. A member sent a 
notice to the list and also included some other people in the CC fields. 
Mailman complained about too many recipients. I'm not really sure why 
this caused a problem, other than the mail list address is sent to a 
specific sender, but I thought the other CC recipients would have been 
relayed to the proper MX servers.

Is there some way I can allow that to go through without a complaint and 
why would that be a problem to mailman?

Thanks

Steve Campbell


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec  3 21:41:45 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 12:41:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Digest Content-Transfer-Encoding
In-Reply-To: <A7CE5928-E3A2-459E-A524-EDC6BF63915A@psu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020071203124145017125fc98f8@msapiro>

Andrew Miller wrote:

>We run Mailman 2.1.5 on Mac OS X 10.4.11 Server. Postfix 2.1.5 is the  
>SMTP server. A number of our subscribers who are sent digests are not  
>able to receive them. The digest messages are bouncing with the error  
>message:
>
>Action: failed
>Status: 5.6.1
>Diagnostic-Code: smtp;554 5.6.1 Body type not supported by Remote Host
>
>Many of these digests are sent with the header Content-Transfer- 
>Encoding: 8bit, and I am wondering if this is what is causing some of  
>our subscribers to not receive these messages.


It could be, but as far as I know, if the remote MTA doesn't indicate
an ability to accept 8bit, Postfix should convert the body to
quoted-printable.


>Has anyone else here experienced this problem, and is there a way to  
>force Mailman to generate digests using the quoted-printable encoding  
>instead? Or possibly, is there a way to get Postfix to translate to  
>quoted-printable? We have recently migrated to Mailman from a  
>different list serve program, and never had this problem with digests  
>with the older list serve.


If in fact it is the Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit that is the
problem, it seems strange that only digests are affected. The
Content-Transfer-Encoding: is determined by by the Python email
library based on the character set and content of the message.

For a normal, English language digest, the character set is us-ascii in
which case the Content-Transfer-Encoding: will be 8bit or 7bit
depending on whether or not the message actually contains 8bit codes.

You can force QP encoding by forcing the message to be iso-8859-1
rather than us-ascii. You can do this by putting

add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'iso-8859-1')

in mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec  3 21:45:57 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 12:45:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Release date for 2.1.10 - was: 2.1.20?
In-Reply-To: <47545B36.40801@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020071203124557026527ef52e2@msapiro>

Charles Marcus wrote:
>
>I know, I hate this kind of question, but, it's been 15 months since 
>2.1.19 was released, and I was just wondering if there was any kind of 
>tentative, planned guesstimated release date for 2.1.20...


If you mean 2.1.9 and 2.1.10, 2.1.10b0 is essentially ready to release.
There are a few packaging glitches to work out due to the switch from
Subversion to Bazaar for version control, but it should be out very
soon.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec  3 21:55:47 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 12:55:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing to maillist + others
In-Reply-To: <4754652E.4050106@cnpapers.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007120312554705002a493083@msapiro>

Steve Campbell wrote:
>
>I have set up a notification list for a department here. A member sent a 
>notice to the list and also included some other people in the CC fields. 
<snip>
>Is there some way I can allow that to go through without a complaint and 
>why would that be a problem to mailman?


Set Privacy options...->Recipient filters->max_num_recipients to 0 if
you want to allow any number of addresses in To: and Cc:, or to some
large number if you want to limit it to that many.

This setting exists for two reasons.

It is/was an anti-spam measure as many messages with large numbers of
recipients are or in the past were spam.

It also allows you to decide whether you want to accept a post that
exposes possibly unrelated Cc: addresses to the list members.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Mon Dec  3 21:56:16 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:56:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Release date for 2.1.10 - was: 2.1.20?
In-Reply-To: <PC176020071203124557026527ef52e2@msapiro>
References: <PC176020071203124557026527ef52e2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47546D70.909@Media-Brokers.com>

Mark Sapiro, on 12/3/2007 3:45 PM, said the following:
> Charles Marcus wrote:
>> I know, I hate this kind of question, but, it's been 15 months since 
>> 2.1.19 was released, and I was just wondering if there was any kind of 
>> tentative, planned guesstimated release date for 2.1.20...

> If you mean 2.1.9 and 2.1.10

Heh - yeah - I've been messing with something else and had .19 and .20 
on my mind... sorry.

> 2.1.10b0 is essentially ready to release. There are a few packaging
> glitches to work out due to the switch from Subversion to Bazaar for
> version control, but it should be out very soon.

b0 meaning a beta?

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From campbell at cnpapers.com  Mon Dec  3 22:01:45 2007
From: campbell at cnpapers.com (Steve Campbell)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:01:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing to maillist + others
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007120312554705002a493083@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007120312554705002a493083@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47546EB9.4090201@cnpapers.com>



Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Steve Campbell wrote:
>   
>> I have set up a notification list for a department here. A member sent a 
>> notice to the list and also included some other people in the CC fields. 
>>     
> <snip>
>   
>> Is there some way I can allow that to go through without a complaint and 
>> why would that be a problem to mailman?
>>     
>
>
> Set Privacy options...->Recipient filters->max_num_recipients to 0 if
> you want to allow any number of addresses in To: and Cc:, or to some
> large number if you want to limit it to that many.
>
> This setting exists for two reasons.
>
> It is/was an anti-spam measure as many messages with large numbers of
> recipients are or in the past were spam.
>
> It also allows you to decide whether you want to accept a post that
> exposes possibly unrelated Cc: addresses to the list members.
>
>   

Mark,

Thanks very much.

I see what you mean by the exposure, and I will try to talk this person 
out of using so many addresses in any post (which is why we set up the 
mailling list in the first place). I could probably create an umbrella 
thingy here to better do what they want to do in the future.

Steve


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec  3 22:04:40 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:04:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <4754689F.3060801@electrichendrix.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020071203130440098427883260@msapiro>

Chris Arnold wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> They look the same to me from the outside. So are you saying that there
>> is a local network behind the one externally visible IP.
>>   
>That is correct a web server(postfix and mailman) and a mail server
>(different servers).
<snip>
>>   
>Postfix and mailman are local (on the same system webserver)
>>
>>
>> Try looking in the log of the MTA that Mailman is talking to on it's
>> own 'localhost'
>>   
>Thats where i am looking and there is nothing in regards to mailman
>I have the mailserver set to forward all mail to
><someone>@lists.mytimewithgod.net to the webserver which has postfix and
>mailman


OK. So i think the situation is you have one box with Mailman and
Postfix as the MTA. Outgoing mail from Mailman goes through this
Postfix. Incoming mail to the lists.mytimewithgod.net domain goes to a
different mailserver which relays it to Postfix on the Mailman/Postfix
box.

That should work.

Have you ever looked in the admindb interface to see if there are held
posts?

Can you send a post from outside to the list at
lists.mytimewithgod.net, find the maillog messages on the 'mailserver'
that say that post was relayed to the Mailman box and find the maillog
messages on the Mailman box that say what was done with that message?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec  3 22:06:56 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:06:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Release date for 2.1.10 - was: 2.1.20?
In-Reply-To: <47546D70.909@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712031306560562278830ca@msapiro>

Charles Marcus wrote:

>Mark Sapiro, on 12/3/2007 3:45 PM, said the following:
>
>> 2.1.10b0 is essentially ready to release. There are a few packaging
>> glitches to work out due to the switch from Subversion to Bazaar for
>> version control, but it should be out very soon.
>
>b0 meaning a beta?


Yes. b0 meaning the first beta release, but it should be stable except
for the translations.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Mon Dec  3 22:06:59 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:06:59 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Salesforce
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Rosi Bustamante <rosi@terrapeninsular.org>'
	dated: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:58:13 -0800
Message-ID: <200712032106.lB3L6xrg008561@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

Rosi Bustamante <rosi at terrapeninsular.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> Our organization uses Salesforce.com for its database management,  
> and we'd like to make it work with Mailman, so people can sign up  
> for our newsletter on our website and their info gets automatically  
> entered into Salesforce.
>
> Is such a feature possible with Mailman, and if so, where are the  
> instructions to set it up?  I'm not the tech person so I really need  
> a bit of direction on this, so I appreciate any help I can get.
>
> Rosi

See the thread 

     [Mailman-Users] programmatically managing list membership

in the November archives of this list; the first mail in the thread
was Nov 29.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Mon Dec  3 22:40:05 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:40:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customize Reject Messages?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007120310030203436024f2b9@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007120310030203436024f2b9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <475477B5.8060909@Media-Brokers.com>

> If all you want to change is the "Message body is too big: 2236114
> bytes with a limit of 256 KB"" line, you have to change that by
> editing the definition of reason_notice in the MessageTooBig class in
> Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py

Yes, that was part of it, thanks!

> If you want to change the Hold notice in general for all held messages,
> you can make a sitewide, domain-specific or list-specific version of
> the postheld.txt template as discussed at
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.

Ok, now, just one last thing... if there's not an easy way to do it, 
thats ok, but it never hurts to ask... ;)

For internal reasons, we only allow secure (https) traffic through our 
firewall. The URL provided at the footer of a message being held (that 
allows the sender to cancel it) is not a secure URL, so this link fails.

Is there a way to change this? I see how I can completely remove the 
entire reference, but I'd like to keep this functionality if possible.

Many thanks for your prompt responses!

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From carnold at electrichendrix.com  Mon Dec  3 23:00:32 2007
From: carnold at electrichendrix.com (Chris Arnold)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:00:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <PC176020071203130440098427883260@msapiro>
References: <PC176020071203130440098427883260@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47547C80.4000107@electrichendrix.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> OK. So i think the situation is you have one box with Mailman and
> Postfix as the MTA. Outgoing mail from Mailman goes through this
> Postfix. Incoming mail to the lists.mytimewithgod.net domain goes to a
> different mailserver which relays it to Postfix on the Mailman/Postfix
> box.
>
>   
Correct
> Have you ever looked in the admindb interface to see if there are held
> posts?
>   
I have but do not see where to check for held posts?
> Can you send a post from outside to the list at
> lists.mytimewithgod.net, find the maillog messages on the 'mailserver'
> that say that post was relayed to the Mailman box and find the maillog
> messages on the Mailman box that say what was done with that message?
>   
Yes, i see where, on the main mail server in its logs, connection
refused (SMTP port 25). So, it looks like my webserver is rejecting the
mailserver connection. In the webserver main.cf, i have mynetworks =
127.0.0.0/8, 192.168.sub.net, 192.168.sub.net

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec  3 23:10:55 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 14:10:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customize Reject Messages?
In-Reply-To: <475477B5.8060909@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020071203141055026527882fa0@msapiro>

Charles Marcus wrote:
>
>For internal reasons, we only allow secure (https) traffic through our 
>firewall. The URL provided at the footer of a message being held (that 
>allows the sender to cancel it) is not a secure URL, so this link fails.
>
>Is there a way to change this? I see how I can completely remove the 
>entire reference, but I'd like to keep this functionality if possible.


If your setting in mm_cfg.py for DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN includes the https
scheme (e.g. DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'), you may
need to run fix_url to update the list's web_page_url attribute. That
should fix it.

See at least items 2 and 3 at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.027.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec  3 23:21:48 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 14:21:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <47547C80.4000107@electrichendrix.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007120314214802506efd6eca@msapiro>

Chris Arnold wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:

>> Have you ever looked in the admindb interface to see if there are held
>> posts?
>>   
>I have but do not see where to check for held posts?


If you go to the admindb interface (either directly or via the "Tend to
pending moderator requests" link in the admin interface, it will
either show you the requests or tell you "There are no pending
requests."


>> Can you send a post from outside to the list at
>> lists.mytimewithgod.net, find the maillog messages on the 'mailserver'
>> that say that post was relayed to the Mailman box and find the maillog
>> messages on the Mailman box that say what was done with that message?
>>   
>Yes, i see where, on the main mail server in its logs, connection
>refused (SMTP port 25). So, it looks like my webserver is rejecting the
>mailserver connection. In the webserver main.cf, i have mynetworks =
>127.0.0.0/8, 192.168.sub.net, 192.168.sub.net


And what do you have for inet_interfaces?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From carnold at electrichendrix.com  Mon Dec  3 23:28:32 2007
From: carnold at electrichendrix.com (Chris Arnold)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:28:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007120314214802506efd6eca@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007120314214802506efd6eca@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47548310.4050501@electrichendrix.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> If you go to the admindb interface (either directly or via the "Tend to
> pending moderator requests" link in the admin interface, it will
> either show you the requests or tell you "There are no pending
>   
No pending requests
> And what do you have for inet_interfaces?
All

From carnold at electrichendrix.com  Mon Dec  3 23:36:48 2007
From: carnold at electrichendrix.com (Chris Arnold)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:36:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007120314214802506efd6eca@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007120314214802506efd6eca@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47548500.8070402@electrichendrix.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Chris Arnold wrote:
>
>   
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>     
>
>   
>>> Have you ever looked in the admindb interface to see if there are held
>>> posts?
>>>   
>>>       
>> I have but do not see where to check for held posts?
>>     
>
>
> If you go to the admindb interface (either directly or via the "Tend to
> pending moderator requests" link in the admin interface, it will
> either show you the requests or tell you "There are no pending
> requests."
>
>
>   
>>> Can you send a post from outside to the list at
>>> lists.mytimewithgod.net, find the maillog messages on the 'mailserver'
>>> that say that post was relayed to the Mailman box and find the maillog
>>> messages on the Mailman box that say what was done with that message?
>>>   
>>>       
>> Yes, i see where, on the main mail server in its logs, connection
>> refused (SMTP port 25). So, it looks like my webserver is rejecting the
>> mailserver connection. In the webserver main.cf, i have mynetworks =
>> 127.0.0.0/8, 192.168.sub.net, 192.168.sub.net
>>     
>
>
> And what do you have for inet_interfaces?
>
>   
OK, now i am at least getting mail returned :) (never thought i would be
so happy to have mail returned!). I remember this from the last time i
setup mailman in this environment; the error is
"l<listname at lists.mytimewithgod.net
<mailto:mtwg-prayer at lists.mytimewithgod.net>>: mail for
lists.mytimewithgod.net <http://lists.mytimewithgod.net> loops
    back to myself"
I just don't remember how to fix it.

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec  4 00:46:34 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:46:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <47548500.8070402@electrichendrix.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007120315463407344d998b40@msapiro>

Chris Arnold wrote:
>>   
>OK, now i am at least getting mail returned :) (never thought i would be
>so happy to have mail returned!). I remember this from the last time i
>setup mailman in this environment; the error is
>"l<listname at lists.mytimewithgod.net
><mailto:mtwg-prayer at lists.mytimewithgod.net>>: mail for
>lists.mytimewithgod.net <http://lists.mytimewithgod.net> loops
>    back to myself"
>I just don't remember how to fix it.


In postfix main.cf you need

virtual_alias_domains = lists.mytimewithgod.net

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Tue Dec  4 01:29:42 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:29:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customize Reject Messages?
In-Reply-To: <PC176020071203141055026527882fa0@msapiro>
References: <PC176020071203141055026527882fa0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47549F76.7000901@Media-Brokers.com>

On 12/3/2007, Mark Sapiro (mark at msapiro.net) wrote:
> Charles Marcus wrote:
>>
>> For internal reasons, we only allow secure (https) traffic through 
>> our firewall. The URL provided at the footer of a message being
>> held (that allows the sender to cancel it) is not a secure URL, so
>> this link fails.
>> 
>> Is there a way to change this? I see how I can completely remove 
>> the entire reference, but I'd like to keep this functionality if 
>> possible.

> If your setting in mm_cfg.py for DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN includes the 
> https scheme (e.g. DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'), you
> may need to run fix_url to update the list's web_page_url attribute.
> That should fix it.

Perfect! That fixed me up... thanks!

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From jlhugo at gmail.com  Tue Dec  4 01:33:00 2007
From: jlhugo at gmail.com (Jeffrey Hugo)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 18:33:00 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Received mail not always going to list
Message-ID: <73cc4c280712031633q56325279geba059e62c68d6f0@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I noticed a few days ago that incomming mail to a list would not always get
sent out.  After trying to trace down the problem, i noticed the following
in the /var/log/mailman/error file corresponding to each missing message.
I've been unable to determine why the majority of messages go out to the
list bit some do not.

The machine is running Ubuntu 6.06 (Dapper Drake), Mailman 2.1.5 installed
with apt-get, and Postfix.  Any help would be appreciated.

-Jeff

Dec 03 18:09:53 2007 (4532) Uncaught runner exception: (104, 'Connection
reset by peer')
Dec 03 18:09:53 2007 (4532) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
_dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
_dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamAssassin.py", line 76, in
process
    score, symbols = check_message(mlist, str(msg))
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamAssassin.py", line 62, in
check_message
    res = connection.check(spamd.SYMBOLS, message)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/spamd.py", line 122, in check
    response = fp.readline()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/socket.py", line 332, in readline
    data = self._sock.recv(self._rbufsize)
error: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')

Dec 03 18:09:54 2007 (4532) SHUNTING:
1195172718.109622+5f2a18798e1a2c35cac4085a04731996cdb017d9

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Dec  4 02:01:45 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:01:45 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <47548500.8070402@electrichendrix.com>
References: <PC17602007120314214802506efd6eca@msapiro>
	<47548500.8070402@electrichendrix.com>
Message-ID: <38C6D988-C3FF-4A80-8FA4-A893A44EEFEA@shub-internet.org>

Teach your MTA to know that it is supposed to handle mail for those  
addresses and deliver that to Mailman.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-Internet.org>

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 3, 2007, at 4:36 PM, Chris Arnold <carnold at electrichendrix.com>  
wrote:

> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Chris Arnold wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>>
>>
>>
>>>> Have you ever looked in the admindb interface to see if there are  
>>>> held
>>>> posts?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I have but do not see where to check for held posts?
>>>
>>
>>
>> If you go to the admindb interface (either directly or via the  
>> "Tend to
>> pending moderator requests" link in the admin interface, it will
>> either show you the requests or tell you "There are no pending
>> requests."
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Can you send a post from outside to the list at
>>>> lists.mytimewithgod.net, find the maillog messages on the  
>>>> 'mailserver'
>>>> that say that post was relayed to the Mailman box and find the  
>>>> maillog
>>>> messages on the Mailman box that say what was done with that  
>>>> message?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Yes, i see where, on the main mail server in its logs, connection
>>> refused (SMTP port 25). So, it looks like my webserver is  
>>> rejecting the
>>> mailserver connection. In the webserver main.cf, i have mynetworks =
>>> 127.0.0.0/8, 192.168.sub.net, 192.168.sub.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> And what do you have for inet_interfaces?
>>
>>
> OK, now i am at least getting mail returned :) (never thought i  
> would be
> so happy to have mail returned!). I remember this from the last time i
> setup mailman in this environment; the error is
> "l<listname at lists.mytimewithgod.net
> <mailto:mtwg-prayer at lists.mytimewithgod.net>>: mail for
> lists.mytimewithgod.net <http://lists.mytimewithgod.net> loops
>    back to myself"
> I just don't remember how to fix it.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brad%40shub-internet.org
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec  4 02:06:14 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:06:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Received mail not always going to list
In-Reply-To: <73cc4c280712031633q56325279geba059e62c68d6f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712031706140312aba9afa6@msapiro>

Jeffrey Hugo wrote:
>
>The machine is running Ubuntu 6.06 (Dapper Drake), Mailman 2.1.5 installed
>with apt-get, and Postfix.  Any help would be appreciated.
>
>-Jeff
>
>Dec 03 18:09:53 2007 (4532) Uncaught runner exception: (104, 'Connection
>reset by peer')
>Dec 03 18:09:53 2007 (4532) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
>_dispose
>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
>_dopipeline
>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamAssassin.py", line 76, in
>process
>    score, symbols = check_message(mlist, str(msg))
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamAssassin.py", line 62, in
>check_message
>    res = connection.check(spamd.SYMBOLS, message)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/spamd.py", line 122, in check
>    response = fp.readline()
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/socket.py", line 332, in readline
>    data = self._sock.recv(self._rbufsize)
>error: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')


Someone has apparently patched your Mailman with
<https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=300103&aid=534577&group_id=103>.
The spamd.py handler's SpamdConnection.check() method doesn't catch
socket exceptions that occur while reading from the socket. Thus if
something happens to the connection between the spamd.py handler and
the spamd daemon, an uncaught exception like the above occurs.

This may be transient glitches or they may depend on message content or
there may be some more fundamental problem with spamd.py.


>Dec 03 18:09:54 2007 (4532) SHUNTING:
>1195172718.109622+5f2a18798e1a2c35cac4085a04731996cdb017d9


You could try running bin/unshunt to reprocess these shunted messages
and see if they work a second time. However, I recommend first running
'bin/show_qfiles qfiles/shunt/*' and removing any entries you don't
actually want.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From carnold at electrichendrix.com  Tue Dec  4 02:33:57 2007
From: carnold at electrichendrix.com (Chris Arnold)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:33:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007120315463407344d998b40@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007120315463407344d998b40@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4754AE85.90607@electrichendrix.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Chris Arnold wrote:
>
> In postfix main.cf you need
>
> virtual_alias_domains = lists.mytimewithgod.net
That did not work. I get
<listname at lists.mytimewithgod.net
<mailto:mtwg-prayer at lists.mytimewithgod.net>>: host
192.168.x.x[192.168.x.x] said:
    550 <listname at lists.mytimewithgod.net
<mailto:mtwg-prayer at lists.mytimewithgod.net>>: Recipient address
rejected: User
    unknown in virtual alias table (in reply to RCPT TO command)

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec  4 02:47:20 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:47:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <4754AE85.90607@electrichendrix.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007120317472006874d998b03@msapiro>

Chris Arnold wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Chris Arnold wrote:
>>
>> In postfix main.cf you need
>>
>> virtual_alias_domains = lists.mytimewithgod.net
>That did not work. I get
><listname at lists.mytimewithgod.net
><mailto:mtwg-prayer at lists.mytimewithgod.net>>: host
>192.168.x.x[192.168.x.x] said:
>    550 <listname at lists.mytimewithgod.net
><mailto:mtwg-prayer at lists.mytimewithgod.net>>: Recipient address
>rejected: User
>    unknown in virtual alias table (in reply to RCPT TO command)


As I told you off line, you don't (or didn't) have a
data/virtual-mailman file. You need to be sure (fx_url) that your list
is in the lists.mytimewithgod.net domain and that your mm_cfg.py has

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.mytimewithgod.net']

and then run bin/genaliases to create data/virtual_mailman and
data/virtual_mailman.db. If you've done that and you have the virtual
mappings for the mtwg-prayer list in data/virtual_mailman, then the
problem is that you need to add the full pathname of virtual_mailman
to virtual_alias_maps in main.cf.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jlhugo at gmail.com  Tue Dec  4 03:11:08 2007
From: jlhugo at gmail.com (Jeffrey Hugo)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 20:11:08 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Received mail not always going to list
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712031706140312aba9afa6@msapiro>
References: <73cc4c280712031633q56325279geba059e62c68d6f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200712031706140312aba9afa6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <73cc4c280712031811v1ac9f10erc9080084d15ba914@mail.gmail.com>

I don't suppose there is a patch for the patch?  That would be too easy.

It looks like after running unshunt, the same thing happens.  I do not see
anything that appears to be a pattern among the shunted messages.  Are there
any suggestions as to how I might fix this?  I am not too familiar with the
Mailman set up on this machine, but I would like to get it fixed.  Thank
you.

-Jeff

On Dec 3, 2007 7:06 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Jeffrey Hugo wrote:
> >
> >The machine is running Ubuntu 6.06 (Dapper Drake), Mailman 2.1.5installed
> >with apt-get, and Postfix.  Any help would be appreciated.
> >
> >-Jeff
> >
> >Dec 03 18:09:53 2007 (4532) Uncaught runner exception: (104, 'Connection
> >reset by peer')
> >Dec 03 18:09:53 2007 (4532) Traceback (most recent call last):
> >  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
> >    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
> >  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
> >    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
> >_dispose
> >    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
> >  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
> >_dopipeline
> >    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamAssassin.py", line 76, in
> >process
> >    score, symbols = check_message(mlist, str(msg))
> >  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamAssassin.py", line 62, in
> >check_message
> >    res = connection.check(spamd.SYMBOLS, message)
> >  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/spamd.py", line 122, in check
> >    response = fp.readline()
> >  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/socket.py", line 332, in readline
> >    data = self._sock.recv(self._rbufsize)
> >error: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')
>
>
> Someone has apparently patched your Mailman with
> <
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=300103&aid=534577&group_id=103
> >.
> The spamd.py handler's SpamdConnection.check() method doesn't catch
> socket exceptions that occur while reading from the socket. Thus if
> something happens to the connection between the spamd.py handler and
> the spamd daemon, an uncaught exception like the above occurs.
>
> This may be transient glitches or they may depend on message content or
> there may be some more fundamental problem with spamd.py.
>
>
> >Dec 03 18:09:54 2007 (4532) SHUNTING:
> >1195172718.109622+5f2a18798e1a2c35cac4085a04731996cdb017d9
>
>
> You could try running bin/unshunt to reprocess these shunted messages
> and see if they work a second time. However, I recommend first running
> 'bin/show_qfiles qfiles/shunt/*' and removing any entries you don't
> actually want.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec  4 03:38:59 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 18:38:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Received mail not always going to list
In-Reply-To: <73cc4c280712031811v1ac9f10erc9080084d15ba914@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712031838590125bce89218@msapiro>

Jeffrey Hugo wrote:
>
>I don't suppose there is a patch for the patch?  That would be too easy.


You could try contacting the author via sourceforge
<https://sourceforge.net/users/jhenstridge/>.

You could find the code in Mailman/Handlers/spamd.py around line 122
that says:

        try:
            sock.send(request)
            sock.send(message)
            sock.shutdown(1) # shut down the send half of the socket
        except (socket.error, IOError):
            raise error('could not send request to spamd')

        fp = sock.makefile('rb')
        response = fp.readline()
        words = response.split(None, 2)


And change it to:

        try:
            sock.send(request)
            sock.send(message)
            sock.shutdown(1) # shut down the send half of the socket
        except (socket.error, IOError):
            raise error('could not send request to spamd')

        try:
            fp = sock.makefile('rb')
            response = fp.readline()
        except (socket.error, IOError):
            raise error('could not read reply from spamd')

        words = response.split(None, 2)


If I read the code correctly, this will have the effect of logging the
error in Mailman's error log and giving the message a spamassassin
score of -1.


>It looks like after running unshunt, the same thing happens.  I do not see
>anything that appears to be a pattern among the shunted messages.  Are there
>any suggestions as to how I might fix this?  I am not too familiar with the
>Mailman set up on this machine, but I would like to get it fixed.  


If it occurs reliably with these messages, it seems it is an issue with
the message content, but I have no idea what.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From carnold at electrichendrix.com  Tue Dec  4 04:40:10 2007
From: carnold at electrichendrix.com (Chris Arnold)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:40:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007120317472006874d998b03@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007120317472006874d998b03@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4754CC1A.7000708@electrichendrix.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> As I told you off line, you don't (or didn't) have a
> data/virtual-mailman file. 
I think you must have looked in the wrong dir or something b/c there has
been virtual_mailman and .db file since i first ran genaliases.
> You need to be sure (fx_url) that your list
> is in the lists.mytimewithgod.net domain
I have run this and get the following:
bin/withlist -l -r fix_url mtwg-prayer -u
Importing fix_url...
Running fix_url.fix_url()...
Loading list mtwg-prayer (locked)
Reset a list's web_page_url attribute to the default setting.

This script is intended to be run as a bin/withlist script, i.e.

% bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname [options]

Options:
    -u urlhost
    --urlhost=urlhost
        Look up urlhost in the virtual host table and set the
web_page_url and
        host_name attributes of the list to the values found.  This
        essentially moves the list from one virtual domain to another.

        Without this option, the default web_page_url and host_name
values are
        used.

    -v / --verbose
        Print what the script is doing.

If run standalone, it prints this help text and exits.

option -u requires argument
Unlocking (but not saving) list: mtwg-prayer
Finalizing
>  and that your mm_cfg.py has
>
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.mytimewithgod.net']
>   
This is also in the mm_cfg.py file
> and then run bin/genaliases to create data/virtual_mailman and
> data/virtual_mailman.db. 
Ran genaliases again
> If you've done that and you have the virtual
> mappings for the mtwg-prayer list in data/virtual_mailman, 
Here is the contents of virtual_mailman
# STANZA START: mtwg-prayer
# CREATED: Mon Dec  3 21:01:43 2007
mtwg-prayer at lists.mytimewithgod.net              mtwg-prayer
mtwg-prayer-admin at lists.mytimewithgod.net        mtwg-prayer-admin
mtwg-prayer-bounces at lists.mytimewithgod.net      mtwg-prayer-bounces
mtwg-prayer-confirm at lists.mytimewithgod.net      mtwg-prayer-confirm
mtwg-prayer-join at lists.mytimewithgod.net         mtwg-prayer-join
mtwg-prayer-leave at lists.mytimewithgod.net        mtwg-prayer-leave
mtwg-prayer-owner at lists.mytimewithgod.net        mtwg-prayer-owner
mtwg-prayer-request at lists.mytimewithgod.net      mtwg-prayer-request
mtwg-prayer-subscribe at lists.mytimewithgod.net    mtwg-prayer-subscribe
mtwg-prayer-unsubscribe at lists.mytimewithgod.net  mtwg-prayer-unsubscribe
# STANZA END: mtwg-prayer
> then the
> problem is that you need to add the full pathname of virtual_mailman
> to virtual_alias_maps in main.cf.
I have that too in the main.cf file:
virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual,
hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual_mailman
virtual_alias_domains = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual

From mcaustinsr at gmail.com  Tue Dec  4 04:47:22 2007
From: mcaustinsr at gmail.com (Michael Austin)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 22:47:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.9 cp2
Message-ID: <29c818200712031947r118696f9i8f7c7fa891be0e04@mail.gmail.com>

I am running Mailman 2.1.9 cp2 and every member on my list is getting the
montly reminder about their password.  I've looked everywhere for the
component to turn that off.  Can someone tell me how to disable that
feature?

Also, is there a way to find answers without having to be on a mailing
list?  Maybe something more along the lines of a newsgroup type setting?

Thank you,

-- 
Michael
----------------------------------------------------
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but
because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec  4 04:52:02 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:52:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <4754CC1A.7000708@electrichendrix.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007120319520203434d998999@msapiro>

Chris Arnold wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> As I told you off line, you don't (or didn't) have a
>> data/virtual-mailman file. 
>I think you must have looked in the wrong dir or something b/c there has
>been virtual_mailman and .db file since i first ran genaliases.


Maybe I did, but see below:


>> You need to be sure (fx_url) that your list
>> is in the lists.mytimewithgod.net domain
>I have run this and get the following:
>bin/withlist -l -r fix_url mtwg-prayer -u
<snip>
>option -u requires argument

If lists.mytimewithgod.net is DEFAULT_URL_HOST (but I don't think it
is), run

bin/withlist -l -r fix_url mtwg-prayer

If not run

bin/withlist -l -r fix_url mtwg-prayer -u lists.mytimewithgod.net


>Here is the contents of virtual_mailman
># STANZA START: mtwg-prayer
># CREATED: Mon Dec  3 21:01:43 2007
>mtwg-prayer at lists.mytimewithgod.net              mtwg-prayer
>mtwg-prayer-admin at lists.mytimewithgod.net        mtwg-prayer-admin
>mtwg-prayer-bounces at lists.mytimewithgod.net      mtwg-prayer-bounces
>mtwg-prayer-confirm at lists.mytimewithgod.net      mtwg-prayer-confirm
>mtwg-prayer-join at lists.mytimewithgod.net         mtwg-prayer-join
>mtwg-prayer-leave at lists.mytimewithgod.net        mtwg-prayer-leave
>mtwg-prayer-owner at lists.mytimewithgod.net        mtwg-prayer-owner
>mtwg-prayer-request at lists.mytimewithgod.net      mtwg-prayer-request
>mtwg-prayer-subscribe at lists.mytimewithgod.net    mtwg-prayer-subscribe
>mtwg-prayer-unsubscribe at lists.mytimewithgod.net  mtwg-prayer-unsubscribe
># STANZA END: mtwg-prayer


OK, that looks good.


>> then the
>> problem is that you need to add the full pathname of virtual_mailman
>> to virtual_alias_maps in main.cf.
>I have that too in the main.cf file:
>virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual,
>hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual_mailman
>virtual_alias_domains = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual


And is the virtual-mailman file you quote above in
/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual_mailman or in some other directory?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec  4 04:55:53 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:55:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.9 cp2
In-Reply-To: <29c818200712031947r118696f9i8f7c7fa891be0e04@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007120319555307344d998b53@msapiro>

Michael Austin wrote:

>I am running Mailman 2.1.9 cp2 and every member on my list is getting the
>montly reminder about their password.  I've looked everywhere for the
>component to turn that off.  Can someone tell me how to disable that
>feature?


General Options->send_reminders = No.


>Also, is there a way to find answers without having to be on a mailing
>list?  Maybe something more along the lines of a newsgroup type setting?


You could set your list delivery to 'disabled' and read the list on the
web at <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bga at altlinux.org  Tue Dec  4 05:01:05 2007
From: bga at altlinux.org (Grigory Batalov)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 07:01:05 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Memory usage
Message-ID: <20071204070105.33d91902.bga@altlinux.org>

Hi!

Mailman qrunners eat a lot of memory on my site:

USER       PID %CPU %MEM    VSZ   RSS TTY      STAT START   TIME COMMAND
mailman  30263  0.0  0.6  80108 13520 ?        S    02:20   0:01 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1
mailman  30584  0.0  0.7  82252 15640 ?        S    02:20   0:01 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:5:6
mailman  30616  0.0  0.7  81940 15524 ?        S    02:20   0:01 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:4:6
mailman  30646  0.0  0.8  84020 17548 ?        S    02:20   0:01 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:3:6
mailman  30672  0.0  0.7  82192 15704 ?        S    02:20   0:01 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:2:6
mailman  31774  0.0  0.6  79592 13108 ?        S    02:20   0:01 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1
mailman  31902  0.0  0.7  88520 15996 ?        S    02:20   0:01 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1
mailman  17971  0.0  1.0  87656 21112 ?        S    02:36   0:01 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:2:3
mailman  18106  0.0  1.1  90700 24164 ?        S    02:36   0:01 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:3
mailman  32494  0.0  1.2  92020 25632 ?        S    02:52   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:3
mailman  32571  0.0  1.2  93360 26984 ?        S    02:52   0:01 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:5:6
mailman  32739  0.0  0.7  81420 15040 ?        S    02:52   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:1:3
mailman   1875  0.0  1.2  91780 25388 ?        S    02:53   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:2:3
mailman   5216  0.0  1.3  94492 28124 ?        S    02:56   0:01 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:2:6
mailman   5779  0.0  0.6  80296 13740 ?        S    02:57   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:6
mailman  25687  0.1  1.1  90904 24532 ?        S    03:13   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:3:6
mailman  26274  0.0  0.8  83828 17548 ?        S    03:14   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:1:3
mailman   5314  0.3  0.7  81504 14984 ?        S    03:21   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:4:6
mailman   5382  0.2  0.5  78340 11968 ?        S    03:21   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:1:6
mailman   5500  0.2  0.4  75856  9520 ?        S    03:22   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:6

Sometimes their memory usage even grows up to 35Mb each.

I would like to know, is it possible to reduce qrunners memory usage and how?
There are 150 lists on the site and about 800 subscribers maximum.

-- 
 Grigory Batalov

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From carnold at electrichendrix.com  Tue Dec  4 05:04:38 2007
From: carnold at electrichendrix.com (Chris Arnold)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:04:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007120319520203434d998999@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007120319520203434d998999@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4754D1D6.2020903@electrichendrix.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> If lists.mytimewithgod.net is DEFAULT_URL_HOST (but I don't think it
> is), run
>
> bin/withlist -l -r fix_url mtwg-prayer
>
> If not run
>
> bin/withlist -l -r fix_url mtwg-prayer -u lists.mytimewithgod.net
>   
Yep, i ran bin/withlist -l -r fix_url mtwg-prayer -u
lists.mytimewithgod.net and that gave a different ouput and saved the file
>
>
> And is the virtual-mailman file you quote above in
> /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual_mailman or in some other directory?
It is in /var/lib/mailman/data

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec  4 05:14:14 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 20:14:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Memory usage
In-Reply-To: <20071204070105.33d91902.bga@altlinux.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602007120320141409684d998c16@msapiro>

Grigory Batalov wrote:
>
>I would like to know, is it possible to reduce qrunners memory usage and how?
>There are 150 lists on the site and about 800 subscribers maximum.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.056.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bga at altlinux.org  Tue Dec  4 06:26:41 2007
From: bga at altlinux.org (Grigory Batalov)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 08:26:41 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Broken pickle
In-Reply-To: <20071204070105.33d91902.bga@altlinux.org>
References: <20071204070105.33d91902.bga@altlinux.org>
Message-ID: <20071204082641.63de9904.bga@altlinux.org>

On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 07:01:05 +0300, Grigory Batalov wrote:

> USER       PID %CPU %MEM    VSZ   RSS TTY      STAT START   TIME COMMAND
...
> mailman  30584  0.0  0.7  82252 15640 ?        S    02:20   0:01 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:5:6
> mailman  30616  0.0  0.7  81940 15524 ?        S    02:20   0:01 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:4:6
> mailman  30646  0.0  0.8  84020 17548 ?        S    02:20   0:01 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:3:6
> mailman  30672  0.0  0.7  82192 15704 ?        S    02:20   0:01 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:2:6
> mailman   5779  0.0  0.6  80296 13740 ?        S    02:57   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:6

  Also, as you can see, I have no IncomingRunner:1:6 and it fails to start
  every time I try to:

$ sudo -u mailman /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:1:6

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
    qrunner.run()
  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
    filecnt = self._oneloop()
  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 159, in dequeue
    msg = cPickle.load(fp)
ValueError: insecure string pickle

  Using "strace" I have found which file it tries to load:

$ python
>>> file=open("/var/spool/mailman/in/1196682806.813381+4ffeef3dcbdc578279784fb47aa271ad8f6462f7.bak", "r")
>>> import cPickle
>>> msg=cPickle.load(file)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ValueError: insecure string pickle

  This file in spool looks regular except "^@" symbol at the end of first
  (long) line:

...bYQlIS1Mprnphtkfp4Urlx28fbCEAVsvLFc9KCkIQgH//2Q==\n\n------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C8359F.078C8BD9--\n\n\n^@
p1
.(dp1
S'listname'
...

  After I changed ^@ to quote (') I could load this file and print msg.

  How could it happen that pickle in queue became broken?

P.S. this is mailman-2.1.9

-- 
 Grigory Batalov,
 ALT Linux Team
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From shieldfire at gmail.com  Tue Dec  4 07:00:11 2007
From: shieldfire at gmail.com (Martin S)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 07:00:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integration with OpenLDAP or AD directory?
Message-ID: <7ad4c500712032200yd3e8fb0i496224857050cf40@mail.gmail.com>

Is it possible to integrate Mailman with AD (preferably) or OpenLDAP? Anyone
tried doing this somewhere?
I'll have a number of users in AD which will form base for three systems.
Now there is talk of integrating email list functionality into the system,
and as I have some experience with Mailman I've been thinking of trying to
the integration to work.


Regards,

Martin S

From jonathan at nerds.net  Tue Dec  4 07:12:58 2007
From: jonathan at nerds.net (Jonathan Dill)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 01:12:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integration with OpenLDAP or AD directory?
In-Reply-To: <7ad4c500712032200yd3e8fb0i496224857050cf40@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7ad4c500712032200yd3e8fb0i496224857050cf40@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4754EFEA.9020503@nerds.net>

Martin S wrote:
> Is it possible to integrate Mailman with AD (preferably) or OpenLDAP? Anyone
> tried doing this somewhere?
> I'll have a number of users in AD which will form base for three systems.
> Now there is talk of integrating email list functionality into the system,
> and as I have some experience with Mailman I've been thinking of trying to
> the integration to work.
>   
A few years back, I did that with iPlanet LDAP, just ran a batch job out 
of cron to do an ldap query to LDIF, massage that to a list of e-mail 
addresses, compare to list of subscribers, then add or remove 
addresses.  Surely, there is a more elegant way to do it, also not 
hardly instantaneous.  You might be able to use Penrose or ApacheDS to 
make some glue as an LDAP front end into AD if needed.

Jonathan

From rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov  Tue Dec  4 15:20:53 2007
From: rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov (Larry Rosenbaum)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 09:20:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shared non-member filters
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6321.1195522936.13604.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.6321.1195522936.13604.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <47556245.9040404@ornl.gov>


>> I think you mean
>> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>. 
>>
>> This patch allows specifying the name of a list (say list2) in list1's
>> accept_these_nonmembers so that members of list2 can post to list1
>> even if they aren't members of list1.
>
> Yep, thats it, thanks! According to the bug tracker, this patch will 
> be included in 2.1.10...
I would really like it if this feature were expanded so that members of 
list2 could post to list1 even if they are members of list1 and have 
their "moderate" flag on.  Sometimes it's easier to maintain a list of 
allowed posters than it is to search for them on list1 and fiddle with 
the moderate flag.

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec  4 17:40:00 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 08:40:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integration with OpenLDAP or AD directory?
In-Reply-To: <7ad4c500712032200yd3e8fb0i496224857050cf40@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712040840000703edeaff9f@msapiro>

Martin S wrote:

>Is it possible to integrate Mailman with AD (preferably) or OpenLDAP? Anyone
>tried doing this somewhere?
>I'll have a number of users in AD which will form base for three systems.
>Now there is talk of integrating email list functionality into the system,
>and as I have some experience with Mailman I've been thinking of trying to
>the integration to work.


See
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=871062&group_id=103&atid=300103>
and
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1471258&group_id=103&atid=300103>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec  4 18:04:13 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 09:04:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shared non-member filters
In-Reply-To: <47556245.9040404@ornl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712040904130484e4879a71@msapiro>

Larry Rosenbaum <rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov>
   Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 09:20:53 -0500
     To: mailman-users at python.org

>
>>> I think you mean
>>> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>. 
>>>
>>> This patch allows specifying the name of a list (say list2) in list1's
>>> accept_these_nonmembers so that members of list2 can post to list1
>>> even if they aren't members of list1.
>>
>> Yep, thats it, thanks! According to the bug tracker, this patch will 
>> be included in 2.1.10...
>I would really like it if this feature were expanded so that members of 
>list2 could post to list1 even if they are members of list1 and have 
>their "moderate" flag on.  Sometimes it's easier to maintain a list of 
>allowed posters than it is to search for them on list1 and fiddle with 
>the moderate flag.


You might consider submitting this as a separate feature request.

It is a more significant coding change, but more importantly, it is a
change in the semantics of accept_these_nonmembers which not everyone
may agree with.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bga at altlinux.org  Tue Dec  4 18:56:12 2007
From: bga at altlinux.org (Grigory Batalov)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 20:56:12 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Memory usage
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007120320141409684d998c16@msapiro>
References: <20071204070105.33d91902.bga@altlinux.org>
	<PC17602007120320141409684d998c16@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20071204205612.6c5c96f1.bga@altlinux.org>

On Mon, 3 Dec 2007 20:14:14 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> >I would like to know, is it possible to reduce qrunners memory usage and how?
> >There are 150 lists on the site and about 800 subscribers maximum.
> 
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.056.htp>.

  Sorry, not much help.
  Can you explain me, why qrunners take more and more memory (RES)?
  It was 25Mb maximum in my previous letter, now it is 36Mb:

$ top
  PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND                                  
17660 mailman   15   0  101M  36M 2668 S  0.0  1.8   0:41.33 qrunner                                   
32356 mailman   15   0  100M  35M 2668 S  0.0  1.7   0:38.30 qrunner                                   
17584 mailman   15   0  100M  35M 2668 S  0.0  1.7   0:40.04 qrunner                                   
32739 mailman   18   0 99.7M  34M 2660 S  0.0  1.7   0:33.94 qrunner                                   
 3182 mailman   15   0 99.5M  34M 2668 S  0.0  1.7   0:39.10 qrunner                                   
...

  Some of them took up to 200Mb (!) before I had to restart them.
  All this looks like slow and fast memory leak.

  My vmstat, if you are interested in:

$ vmstat -a 1 3
procs -----------memory---------- ---swap-- -----io---- --system-- ----cpu----
 r  b   swpd   free  inact active   si   so    bi    bo   in    cs us sy id wa
 1  0      0 1302408      0      0    0    0     0     0    0     1  1  0 94  5
 0  0      0 1302408      0      0    0    0     0     0    0  1625  0  0 99  1
 0  0      0 1303084      0      0    0    0     0     0    0  1800  0  0 88 12

  This is OpenVZ VE on Linux.

$ uname -a
Linux lists.altlinux.org 2.6.18-ovz-smp-alt17 #1 SMP Sat Oct 6 04:41:41 MSD 2007 x86_64 GNU/Linux


-- 
 Grigory Batalov,
 ALT Linux Team
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From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Dec  4 20:19:16 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:19:16 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Memory usage
In-Reply-To: <20071204205612.6c5c96f1.bga@altlinux.org>
References: <20071204070105.33d91902.bga@altlinux.org>
	<PC17602007120320141409684d998c16@msapiro>
	<20071204205612.6c5c96f1.bga@altlinux.org>
Message-ID: <p06240802c37b547c6872@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/4/07, Grigory Batalov wrote:

>>  See
>>  <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.056.htp>.
>
>   Sorry, not much help.
>   Can you explain me, why qrunners take more and more memory (RES)?

You seem to have fewer lists and fewer numbers of members per list 
than some of the sites I'm familiar with, but your lists may be 
higher in hourly or daily traffic.

>   It was 25Mb maximum in my previous letter, now it is 36Mb:
>
>  $ top
>    PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
>  17660 mailman   15   0  101M  36M 2668 S  0.0  1.8   0:41.33 qrunner
>  32356 mailman   15   0  100M  35M 2668 S  0.0  1.7   0:38.30 qrunner
>  17584 mailman   15   0  100M  35M 2668 S  0.0  1.7   0:40.04 qrunner
>  32739 mailman   18   0 99.7M  34M 2660 S  0.0  1.7   0:33.94 qrunner
>   3182 mailman   15   0 99.5M  34M 2668 S  0.0  1.7   0:39.10 qrunner
>  ....
>
>   Some of them took up to 200Mb (!) before I had to restart them.
>   All this looks like slow and fast memory leak.

That's not so different from what we've got on python.org (see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.015.htp>), 
and the RSS for our qrunners is between 11MB and 41MB, depending on 
the specific runner.  Note that neither yours nor ours are sucking up 
any CPU time, so they're primed for being paged or swapped out if you 
do run into any memory pressure.  Also note that all that Linux stats 
quoted on 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.056.htp> 
are from the python.org machines.

I'm not a Linux performance tuning expert, but I'm not seeing any 
real problems in what you've shown us so far.  If you are seeing 
problems, then you might want to consult a Linux performance tuning 
expert.

>   My vmstat, if you are interested in:
>
>$ vmstat -a 1 3
>procs -----------memory---------- ---swap-- -----io---- --system-- ----cpu----
>  r  b   swpd   free  inact active   si   so    bi    bo   in    cs us sy id wa
>  1  0      0 1302408      0      0    0    0     0     0    0     1 
>1  0 94  5
>  0  0      0 1302408      0      0    0    0     0     0    0  1625 
>0  0 99  1
>  0  0      0 1303084      0      0    0    0     0     0    0  1800 
>0  0 88 12
>
>   This is OpenVZ VE on Linux.

You've got over 1GB of memory that is marked as "free".  I'm not 
seeing any memory pressure here.

However, I would wonder why your command isn't showing you how much 
memory is inactive or active.  This would seem to me to be a system 
problem that you probably want to get resolved, although it doesn't 
have anything to do with Mailman.


That said, MTAs and mailing lists really, really want direct access 
to their disk subsystems where they handle all their messages, and 
they are likely to perform much worse in a virtual server environment 
than most other types of applications.

The types of applications that will tend to perform well under 
virtualization are those which are CPU-bound, but are infrequently 
used.  The I/O-bound systems, especially those that are disk 
I/O-bound on very specific issues like synchronous meta-data updates 
(which also involves lots of filesystem overhead, as well as physical 
disk I/O), will tend to perform poorly under virtualization.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From carnold at electrichendrix.com  Tue Dec  4 22:16:28 2007
From: carnold at electrichendrix.com (Chris Arnold)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 16:16:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not able to receive email from list
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007120319520203434d998999@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007120319520203434d998999@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4755C3AC.3050007@electrichendrix.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Chris Arnold wrote:
>
>   
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>     
>>> As I told you off line, you don't (or didn't) have a
>>> data/virtual-mailman file. 
>>>       
>> I think you must have looked in the wrong dir or something b/c there has
>> been virtual_mailman and .db file since i first ran genaliases.
>>     
>
>
> Maybe I did, but see below:
>
>
>   
>>> You need to be sure (fx_url) that your list
>>> is in the lists.mytimewithgod.net domain
>>>       
>> I have run this and get the following:
>> bin/withlist -l -r fix_url mtwg-prayer -u
>>     
> <snip>
>   
>> option -u requires argument
>>     
>
> If lists.mytimewithgod.net is DEFAULT_URL_HOST (but I don't think it
> is), run
>
> bin/withlist -l -r fix_url mtwg-prayer
>
> If not run
>
> bin/withlist -l -r fix_url mtwg-prayer -u lists.mytimewithgod.net
>
>
>   
>> Here is the contents of virtual_mailman
>> # STANZA START: mtwg-prayer
>> # CREATED: Mon Dec  3 21:01:43 2007
>> mtwg-prayer at lists.mytimewithgod.net              mtwg-prayer
>> mtwg-prayer-admin at lists.mytimewithgod.net        mtwg-prayer-admin
>> mtwg-prayer-bounces at lists.mytimewithgod.net      mtwg-prayer-bounces
>> mtwg-prayer-confirm at lists.mytimewithgod.net      mtwg-prayer-confirm
>> mtwg-prayer-join at lists.mytimewithgod.net         mtwg-prayer-join
>> mtwg-prayer-leave at lists.mytimewithgod.net        mtwg-prayer-leave
>> mtwg-prayer-owner at lists.mytimewithgod.net        mtwg-prayer-owner
>> mtwg-prayer-request at lists.mytimewithgod.net      mtwg-prayer-request
>> mtwg-prayer-subscribe at lists.mytimewithgod.net    mtwg-prayer-subscribe
>> mtwg-prayer-unsubscribe at lists.mytimewithgod.net  mtwg-prayer-unsubscribe
>> # STANZA END: mtwg-prayer
>>     
>
>
> OK, that looks good.
>
>
>   
>>> then the
>>> problem is that you need to add the full pathname of virtual_mailman
>>> to virtual_alias_maps in main.cf.
>>>       
>> I have that too in the main.cf file:
>> virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual,
>> hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual_mailman
>> virtual_alias_domains = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual
>>     
>
>
> And is the virtual-mailman file you quote above in
> /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual_mailman or in some other directory?
>
>   
Great news!!! I restored the old main.cf file from tape, changed
/usr/local to /var/lib and now everything is working as it ought!!!
Thanks for all the help. Mark, i know i now need to (quoted by Mark) "

This directory needs to be searchable by the web server or public
archives won't work. See the post at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-December/059288.html>
for information about this and the 'pipermail' alias you need to make"

I will work on this now.
public archives work.


From carnold at electrichendrix.com  Tue Dec  4 22:31:27 2007
From: carnold at electrichendrix.com (Chris Arnold)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 16:31:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "About" text from top of subscribe page
Message-ID: <4755C72F.303@electrichendrix.com>

In what file is the text from the "about" area of the subscribe page
found? I have looked in handlers and scripts and templates.

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec  4 23:08:01 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 14:08:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "About" text from top of subscribe page
In-Reply-To: <4755C72F.303@electrichendrix.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712041408010156ce212ffd@msapiro>

Chris Arnold wrote:

>In what file is the text from the "about" area of the subscribe page
>found? I have looked in handlers and scripts and templates.


If all you want to do is add something to that section to appear before
the "To see the collection of prior postings to the list" line, you
can put that in the list's General Options->info attribute.

If you want to make more extensive changes, the template is
listinfo.html and it can be edited for a specific list via the admin
"Edit the public HTML pages and text files"->"General list information
page" links, or a site-wide or domain or list specific edited version
can be made per
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From carnold at electrichendrix.com  Tue Dec  4 23:27:52 2007
From: carnold at electrichendrix.com (Chris Arnold)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:27:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "About" text from top of subscribe page
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712041408010156ce212ffd@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200712041408010156ce212ffd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4755D468.5080009@electrichendrix.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> If all you want to do is add something to that section to appear before
> the "To see the collection of prior postings to the list" line, you
> can put that in the list's General Options->info attribute.
>
> If you want to make more extensive changes, the template is
> listinfo.html and it can be edited for a specific list via the admin
> "Edit the public HTML pages and text files"->"General list information
> page" links, or a site-wide or domain or list specific edited version
> can be made per
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.
So, is it not in a file? I want to find that file on a backup tape,
restore the file and copy the text out of that file.

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Dec  5 00:06:14 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 15:06:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "About" text from top of subscribe page
In-Reply-To: <4755D468.5080009@electrichendrix.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712041506140375d18ea945@msapiro>

Chris Arnold wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> If all you want to do is add something to that section to appear before
>> the "To see the collection of prior postings to the list" line, you
>> can put that in the list's General Options->info attribute.
>>
>> If you want to make more extensive changes, the template is
>> listinfo.html and it can be edited for a specific list via the admin
>> "Edit the public HTML pages and text files"->"General list information
>> page" links, or a site-wide or domain or list specific edited version
>> can be made per
>> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.
>So, is it not in a file? I want to find that file on a backup tape,
>restore the file and copy the text out of that file.


I assume then that you are talking about the 'info' attribute of a
list. If so, you can get the lists/<listname>/config.pck file from the
backup tape.

Do not replace the current config.pck with that backup unless you want
to restore EVERYTHING (list settings, membership all member options
and attribute, digest volume number, ...).

Instead, just put the file somewhere and run Mailman's

 bin/dumpdb path/to/the/config.pck

to see what the info attribute was.

OTOH, maybe you do want to restore everything from the backup?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jlhugo at gmail.com  Wed Dec  5 00:13:04 2007
From: jlhugo at gmail.com (Jeffrey Hugo)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 17:13:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Received mail not always going to list
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712031838590125bce89218@msapiro>
References: <73cc4c280712031811v1ac9f10erc9080084d15ba914@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200712031838590125bce89218@msapiro>
Message-ID: <73cc4c280712041513m6ef71628lf13629cec7a5ea4d@mail.gmail.com>

Made the changes and tried another unshunt.  No luck.  Same exact error pops
up.  I've contacted the author but I haven't heard anything back yet.  In
the mean-time, you wouldn't happen to have any other ideas?

-Jeff

On Dec 3, 2007 8:38 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Jeffrey Hugo wrote:
> >
> >I don't suppose there is a patch for the patch?  That would be too easy.
>
>
> You could try contacting the author via sourceforge
> < https://sourceforge.net/users/jhenstridge/>.
>
> You could find the code in Mailman/Handlers/spamd.py around line 122
> that says:
>
>        try:
>            sock.send(request)
>            sock.send(message)
>            sock.shutdown(1) # shut down the send half of the socket
>        except (socket.error, IOError):
>            raise error('could not send request to spamd')
>
>        fp = sock.makefile('rb')
>        response = fp.readline()
>        words = response.split(None, 2)
>
>
> And change it to:
>
>        try:
>            sock.send(request)
>            sock.send(message)
>            sock.shutdown (1) # shut down the send half of the socket
>        except (socket.error, IOError):
>            raise error('could not send request to spamd')
>
>        try:
>            fp = sock.makefile('rb')
>            response = fp.readline()
>        except (socket.error, IOError):
>            raise error('could not read reply from spamd')
>
>        words = response.split(None, 2)
>
>
> If I read the code correctly, this will have the effect of logging the
> error in Mailman's error log and giving the message a spamassassin
> score of -1.
>
>
> >It looks like after running unshunt, the same thing happens.  I do not
> see
> >anything that appears to be a pattern among the shunted messages.  Are
> there
> >any suggestions as to how I might fix this?  I am not too familiar with
> the
> >Mailman set up on this machine, but I would like to get it fixed.
>
>
> If it occurs reliably with these messages, it seems it is an issue with
> the message content, but I have no idea what.
>
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From cyndi at tikvah.com  Wed Dec  5 00:09:06 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 15:09:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using your domain name
Message-ID: <200712042309.lB4N96FX026320@a.mail.sonic.net>

I haven't found this in the FAQ, though I might not be looking hard
enough.  Mostly the info is about how to set up MM on your own domain, but
that's not what I want.

I am using MM that is hosted at my ISP.  But I want to use my personal
domain name for the list addresses.  Getting the domain name addresses to
work is ridiculously easy: I simply set up a forward for the mail.  My
ISP's staff even gave me a list of all the aliases I needed to create.

But all the defaults for MM give the ISP's domain.  The header and footer
and welcome message.  The listinfo page and password reminder page.  The
message headers.  And so forth.

I know I can edit some (all?) of these from the web interface.  And I've
already set the reply-to field to my domain.  But I was wondering if there
was a way to get it to change over all at once.  It would take hours to
change it all manually for 4+ lists.

I don't necessarily want the ISP's addresses to stop working.  I'm happy to
have both.  I just want the list "paperwork" to display my domain when
possible.

There is the host_name setting, but I'm afraid to mess with it unless
someone says it's a good idea.

Thanks,
Cyndi


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Dec  5 00:32:45 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 15:32:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Received mail not always going to list
In-Reply-To: <73cc4c280712041513m6ef71628lf13629cec7a5ea4d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712041532450671e2b6712c@msapiro>

Jeffrey Hugo wrote:
>
>Made the changes and tried another unshunt.  No luck.  Same exact error pops
>up.  I've contacted the author but I haven't heard anything back yet.  In
>the mean-time, you wouldn't happen to have any other ideas?


Restart Mailman.

Any time you change anything that affects qrunners, you have to restart
Mailman before the change will be effective.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Dec  5 00:49:07 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 15:49:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using your domain name
In-Reply-To: <200712042309.lB4N96FX026320@a.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712041549070687ebf3d956@msapiro>

Cyndi Norwitz wrote:

>I haven't found this in the FAQ, though I might not be looking hard
>enough.  Mostly the info is about how to set up MM on your own domain, but
>that's not what I want.
>
>I am using MM that is hosted at my ISP.  But I want to use my personal
>domain name for the list addresses.  Getting the domain name addresses to
>work is ridiculously easy: I simply set up a forward for the mail.  My
>ISP's staff even gave me a list of all the aliases I needed to create.
>
>But all the defaults for MM give the ISP's domain.  The header and footer
>and welcome message.  The listinfo page and password reminder page.  The
>message headers.  And so forth.
>
>I know I can edit some (all?) of these from the web interface.  And I've
>already set the reply-to field to my domain.  But I was wondering if there
>was a way to get it to change over all at once.  It would take hours to
>change it all manually for 4+ lists.
>
>I don't necessarily want the ISP's addresses to stop working.  I'm happy to
>have both.  I just want the list "paperwork" to display my domain when
>possible.
>
>There is the host_name setting, but I'm afraid to mess with it unless
>someone says it's a good idea.


As far as email domain is concerned, that's exactly what host_name is
for. If you only want to change the domain in list email addresses,
and not in URLs, all you need to do is change the list's host_name.

If you also want to change the domain in URLs, the ISP has to do it for
you. The quick and dirty way to do it is to just change the list's
web_page_url attribute, but that requires command line access. Also,
see FAQs 4.17 and 4.62 for info on why this might not be the best way.

The best way is to have the ISP add a Mailman virtual host for your web
and email domains and then run fix_url to set your list's attributes.
See FAQ 4.29 for more.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jlhugo at gmail.com  Wed Dec  5 00:58:20 2007
From: jlhugo at gmail.com (Jeffrey Hugo)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 17:58:20 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Received mail not always going to list
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712041532450671e2b6712c@msapiro>
References: <73cc4c280712041513m6ef71628lf13629cec7a5ea4d@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200712041532450671e2b6712c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <73cc4c280712041558j43a1a8acp5ecd6a610da4d3e0@mail.gmail.com>

Ah, I suppose that might help.  It looks like that did the trick.  Thanks.

-Jeff

On Dec 4, 2007 5:32 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Jeffrey Hugo wrote:
> >
> >Made the changes and tried another unshunt.  No luck.  Same exact error
> pops
> >up.  I've contacted the author but I haven't heard anything back yet.  In
> >the mean-time, you wouldn't happen to have any other ideas?
>
>
> Restart Mailman.
>
> Any time you change anything that affects qrunners, you have to restart
> Mailman before the change will be effective.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From cyndi at tikvah.com  Wed Dec  5 01:05:44 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:05:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using your domain name
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712041549070687ebf3d956@msapiro> (message from Mark
	Sapiro on Tue, 4 Dec 2007 15:49:07 -0800)
References: <PC1760200712041549070687ebf3d956@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200712050005.lB505iEn032326@b.mail.sonic.net>

   Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 15:49:07 -0800
   From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>

   As far as email domain is concerned, that's exactly what host_name is
   for. If you only want to change the domain in list email addresses,
   and not in URLs, all you need to do is change the list's host_name.

Yea! it is perfect.  I haven't looked everywhere, but the footer and
message headers are all right.  I *don't* want to change the URL's because
then I'd have to set them up (I suppose I could forward them all, but why
bother).

This does just what I want it to do, as far as I can tell so far.

Thanks!
Cyndi


From bernd at firmix.at  Wed Dec  5 00:47:17 2007
From: bernd at firmix.at (Bernd Petrovitsch)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 00:47:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using your domain name
In-Reply-To: <200712042309.lB4N96FX026320@a.mail.sonic.net>
References: <200712042309.lB4N96FX026320@a.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <1196812037.3898.27.camel@gimli.at.home>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20071205/ce420f54/attachment.txt 

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Dec  5 02:06:36 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 17:06:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Broken pickle
In-Reply-To: <20071204082641.63de9904.bga@altlinux.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712041706360453aa02b049@msapiro>

Grigory Batalov wrote:
>  Also, as you can see, I have no IncomingRunner:1:6 and it fails to start
>  every time I try to:
>
>$ sudo -u mailman /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:1:6


Note that the documentation states that the number of slices must be a
power of two. I don't think it really matters, and I'm sure it isn't
anything to do with the corrupt pickle, but that's what it says.


>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
>    qrunner.run()
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
>    filecnt = self._oneloop()
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
>    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 159, in dequeue
>    msg = cPickle.load(fp)
>ValueError: insecure string pickle
>
>  Using "strace" I have found which file it tries to load:
>
>$ python
>>>> file=open("/var/spool/mailman/in/1196682806.813381+4ffeef3dcbdc578279784fb47aa271ad8f6462f7.bak", "r")


Actually, I hope it was actually trying to open
1196682806.813381+4ffeef3dcbdc578279784fb47aa271ad8f6462f7.pck
and had then renamed it to
1196682806.813381+4ffeef3dcbdc578279784fb47aa271ad8f6462f7.bak

dequeue should never be trying to open a .bak file.

In any case, the problem file would have been the first one in the
/var/spool/mailman/in/ directory in sequence by the part of the name
up to the '+'.


>>>> import cPickle
>>>> msg=cPickle.load(file)
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>ValueError: insecure string pickle
>
>  This file in spool looks regular except "^@" symbol at the end of first
>  (long) line:
>
>...bYQlIS1Mprnphtkfp4Urlx28fbCEAVsvLFc9KCkIQgH//2Q==\n\n------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C8359F.078C8BD9--\n\n\n^@


This is the string containing the raw message text and somehow the
quote at the end of the string has been changed to a null byte (^@). I
haven't got a clue as to how this could happen unless it's a Python
cPickle bug of some sort.

I just tried to make a queue entry of this type from a messsage that
had a trailing null byte and, with Python 2.5.1 at least, the null
byte was properly escaped as '\x00' in the pickle.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tech at craftbits.com  Wed Dec  5 05:36:13 2007
From: tech at craftbits.com (Vikram Goyal)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:36:13 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many Bounce action notifications
Message-ID: <092c01c836f8$5ed13f60$e416a8c0@acer>

Hello,

I maintain a medium sized mailing list (over 40000) to which a 
newsletter is sent out every few weeks. Till recently, I had no 
issues with this list, but after the last newsletter was sent 
out, I have started receiving "Bounce action notifications" by 
the truckload.

Each of these is unique and the attached message contains the 
list of addresses whose subscription has been disabled because of 
excessive or fatal bounces. But there are a few problems:

1. This is first time I am receiving these many bounce 
notifications. In fact, these notifications have not stopped 
coming since the newsletter was sent out.

2. I have set my bounce notifications to NOT be sent out to the 
list owner.

3. The web accessible Mailman is extremely slow to respond to any 
requests.

Is there something here that doesn't seem correct? If I stop 
mailman, I stop getting these notifications, but of course, that 
is less than ideal situation. I am guessing, at some point these 
notifications will stop, but why am I getting these notifications 
now and never before?

I have restarted Mailman several times to no avail. I am running 
Mailman 2.1.9.

Thanks,
Vikram Goyal,
tech at craftbits.com



From ivaldes at hal-pc.org  Wed Dec  5 06:21:52 2007
From: ivaldes at hal-pc.org (Ignacio Valdes)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 23:21:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] httpd.conf Rewrite rules with ZOPE to
	usemailman.
In-Reply-To: <redirect-461218771@mail.hal-pc.org>
References: <311679a80712030913w7305f415kbe24ad5ca258e2d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<redirect-461218771@mail.hal-pc.org>
Message-ID: <311679a80712042121g32f6d070h28b6dd2ddba0dad1@mail.gmail.com>

What ended up happening was that I followed the Mailman list moving
FAQ http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp
and the tar'ed symlinks to my old lists were not valid on the new
server. So the symlinks needed to be deleted and re-created such as:
ln -s /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/linuxmednews
Then I needed to 'chmod 755 private' in
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private and now it seems to work!

The hopefully last step now is how to figure out how to get it to use
the named URL, not the IP address URL such as
linuxmednews.com/mailman/listinfo for the info page and the rest.

-- IV

On Dec 3, 2007 11:48 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Ignacio Valdes wrote:
>
> >Then I needed to 'chmod 755 private' in
> >/var/lib/mailman/archives/private and now it seems to work!
>
> It should be 'chmod 2771 private'. Without g+ws, you'll not be able to
> create archives for new lists. o-r is not mandatory, but o+r can
> possibly allow unrestricted access to private archives from the web
> server.
>
> --
>
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Dec  5 06:36:15 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 21:36:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10b1 Released
Message-ID: <475638CF.2090105@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I am happy to announce the first beta release of Mailman 2.1.10.

This is a security and bug fix release and it is highly recommended
that all sites upgrade to this version.  Mailman 2.1.10 also adds support
for two new language translations, Hebrew and Slovak and a few new features.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and e-
newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, including download links, please see:

http://www.list.org
http://mailman.sf.net
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman

Special thanks are due to Barry Warsaw and Tokio Kikuchi for much coding
and support, Moritz Naumann for help with security issues and Jim Tittsler
for a significant patch.

Here's a list of the major changes.

  Security

    - The 2.1.9 fixes for CVE-2006-3636 have been enhanced.  In particular,
      many potential cross-site scripting attacks have are now detected in
      editing templates and updating the list's info attribute via the web
      admin interface.  Thanks again to Moritz Naumann for assistance with
      this.

  New Features

    - Changed cmd_who.py to list all members if authorization is with the
      list's admin or moderator password and to accept the password if the
      roster is public.  Also changed the web roster to show hidden members
      when authorization is by site or list's admin or moderator password
      (1587651).

    - Added the ability to put a list name in accept_these_nonmembers
      to accept posts from members of that list (1220144).

    - Added a new 'sibling list' feature to exclude members of another list
      from receiving a post from this list if the other list is in the To: or
      Cc: of the post or to include members of the other list if that list is
      not in the To: or Cc: of the post (Patch ID 1347962).

    - Added the admin_member_chunksize attribute to the admin General Options
      interface (Bug 1072002, Partial RFE 782436).

Internationalization

    - Added the Hebrew translation from Dov Zamir.  This includes addition of
      a direction ('ltr', 'rtl') to the LC_DESCRIPTIONS table.  The
      add_language() function defaults direction to 'ltr' to not break
      existing mm_cfg.py files.

    - Added the Slovak translation from Martin Matuska.


- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)

iD4DBQFHVjjPVVuXXpU7hpMRArQHAJ9NE4Fj8b2rpWaXX6+BFa27wWB2MACWIGqJ
1wxPhA7ZBRVG9gSiEhTb2A==
=vzXz
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From ivaldes at hal-pc.org  Wed Dec  5 06:38:06 2007
From: ivaldes at hal-pc.org (Ignacio Valdes)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 23:38:06 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Vexing withlist and possibly rewrite rule problem?
Message-ID: <311679a80712042138w1bc0a50dp73ec99342d35129d@mail.gmail.com>

Hello again all,

I am attempting to get the following URL to work:
http://www.linuxmednews.com/mailman/listinfo/linuxmednews-announce on
a server that is serving linuxmednews.com. If I use the withlist
fix_url command for linuxmednews-announce and put it to the
fully-qualified path that is desired as above, I cannot get to any of
the web interface pages. I get a resource not found message. If I use
withlist and set it to the numeric IP address, it halfway works in
that I can get to everything, but I cannot send an e-mail to
linuxmednews-announce at linuxmednews . com and have the list capture
it. If I send it to linuxmednews-announce at ip address no, it works.
What is desired is the fully-qualified URL above as well as the the
fully qualified e-mail address, not the IP. What might I try to do to
make this work? Thanks!

-- IV

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Dec  5 07:21:08 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 22:21:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many Bounce action notifications
In-Reply-To: <092c01c836f8$5ed13f60$e416a8c0@acer>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712042221080264b25ec370@msapiro>

Vikram Goyal wrote:
>
>I maintain a medium sized mailing list (over 40000) to which a 
>newsletter is sent out every few weeks. Till recently, I had no 
>issues with this list, but after the last newsletter was sent 
>out, I have started receiving "Bounce action notifications" by 
>the truckload.


What are the list's bounce processing settings. It's possible that this is the
first time you had enough posts close enough together to reach the threshhold
for the truckload of undeliverable addresses on your list.


>Each of these is unique and the attached message contains the 
>list of addresses whose subscription has been disabled because of 
>excessive or fatal bounces. But there are a few problems:
>
>1. This is first time I am receiving these many bounce 
>notifications. In fact, these notifications have not stopped 
>coming since the newsletter was sent out.


Your system may be backlogged causing delays. You'd have to look at Mailman's
logs and queues to see what might be going on.


>2. I have set my bounce notifications to NOT be sent out to the 
>list owner.


Which one(s). These notices are controlled by bounce_notify_owner_on_disable.
	

>3. The web accessible Mailman is extremely slow to respond to any 
>requests.


See 1. above. Also, if you have a processing backlog, there might be lock
contention slowing the web interface.


>Is there something here that doesn't seem correct? If I stop 
>mailman, I stop getting these notifications,


You just stop processing them, but they still get queued and processing
continues when you start Mailman again.


>but of course, that 
>is less than ideal situation. I am guessing, at some point these 
>notifications will stop, but why am I getting these notifications 
>now and never before?


See my first paragraph above.


>I have restarted Mailman several times to no avail. I am running 
>Mailman 2.1.9.


Restarting Mailman won't change this. If Mailman isn't running and a bounce
arrives, it is still queued and processed when Mailman starts again. If you
have any kind of backlog, stopping Mailman just makes things worse by delaying
processing further.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Dec  5 07:24:05 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 22:24:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Vexing withlist and possibly rewrite rule
	problem?
In-Reply-To: <311679a80712042138w1bc0a50dp73ec99342d35129d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712042224050621b25ec4d2@msapiro>

Ignacio Valdes wrote:
>
>I am attempting to get the following URL to work:
>http://www.linuxmednews.com/mailman/listinfo/linuxmednews-announce on
>a server that is serving linuxmednews.com. If I use the withlist
>fix_url command for linuxmednews-announce and put it to the
>fully-qualified path that is desired as above, I cannot get to any of
>the web interface pages. I get a resource not found message. If I use
>withlist and set it to the numeric IP address, it halfway works in
>that I can get to everything, but I cannot send an e-mail to
>linuxmednews-announce at linuxmednews . com and have the list capture
>it. If I send it to linuxmednews-announce at ip address no, it works.
>What is desired is the fully-qualified URL above as well as the the
>fully qualified e-mail address, not the IP. What might I try to do to
>make this work? Thanks!


If you can mail to the list and access the web interface by IP but not by name,
it is a DNS issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tech at craftbits.com  Wed Dec  5 07:35:11 2007
From: tech at craftbits.com (Vikram Goyal)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:35:11 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many Bounce action notifications
References: <PC1760200712042221080264b25ec370@msapiro>
Message-ID: <0b2e01c83709$02ab1920$e416a8c0@acer>

Hey Mark,

Thanks for the reply..

>>I maintain a medium sized mailing list (over 40000) to which a
>>newsletter is sent out every few weeks. Till recently, I had no
>>issues with this list, but after the last newsletter was sent
>>out, I have started receiving "Bounce action notifications" by
>>the truckload.
>
>
> What are the list's bounce processing settings. It's possible 
> that this is the
> first time you had enough posts close enough together to reach 
> the threshhold
> for the truckload of undeliverable addresses on your list.

This is what I think has happened, but I can't be sure.

However, isn't this just too freaky that the threshold has been 
reached for all these addresses with the same newsletter?

>>
>>1. This is first time I am receiving these many bounce
>>notifications. In fact, these notifications have not stopped
>>coming since the newsletter was sent out.
>
>
> Your system may be backlogged causing delays. You'd have to 
> look at Mailman's
> logs and queues to see what might be going on.

Ok, there is a backlog of about 65 messages, two days after the 
original message was sent.

>
>
>>2. I have set my bounce notifications to NOT be sent out to the
>>list owner.
>
>
> Which one(s). These notices are controlled by 
> bounce_notify_owner_on_disable.
>

Yes this one. This is from the page Bounce Processing. I wasn't 
aware of any other flags?

>
>>3. The web accessible Mailman is extremely slow to respond to 
>>any
>>requests.
>
>
> See 1. above. Also, if you have a processing backlog, there 
> might be lock
> contention slowing the web interface.
>

Ok, that does make sense.

<snip>

>
>>I have restarted Mailman several times to no avail. I am 
>>running
>>Mailman 2.1.9.
>
>
> Restarting Mailman won't change this. If Mailman isn't running 
> and a bounce
> arrives, it is still queued and processed when Mailman starts 
> again. If you
> have any kind of backlog, stopping Mailman just makes things 
> worse by delaying
> processing further.
>

Ok. Makes sense. So what would be the ideal way to stop these 
emails?
Is there a way to stop all these emails or I just need to grin 
and bear it?

More importantly, this doesn't indicate any issues with my 
Mailman configuration, right?

Thanks,
Vikram
tech at craftbits.com

>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for 
> gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - 
> B. Dylan
> 



From bga at altlinux.org  Wed Dec  5 07:46:00 2007
From: bga at altlinux.org (Grigory Batalov)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:46:00 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Broken pickle
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712041706360453aa02b049@msapiro>
References: <20071204082641.63de9904.bga@altlinux.org>
	<PC1760200712041706360453aa02b049@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20071205094600.183451b2.bga@altlinux.org>

On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 17:06:36 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> >  Also, as you can see, I have no IncomingRunner:1:6 and it fails to start
> >  every time I try to:
> >
> >$ sudo -u mailman /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:1:6
> 
> Note that the documentation states that the number of slices must be a
> power of two.

  Which documentation?

Mailman/Defaults.py.in:677
# BAW: Although not enforced, the # of slices must be a power of 2

$ /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --help
...
    -r runner[:slice:range]
    --runner=runner[:slice:range]
        Run the named qrunner, which must be one of the strings returned by
        the -l option.  Optional slice:range if given, is used to assign
        multiple qrunner processes to a queue.  range is the total number of
        qrunners for this queue while slice is the number of this qrunner from
        [0..range).

        If using the slice:range form, you better make sure that each qrunner
        for the queue is given the same range value.  If slice:runner is not
        given, then 1:1 is used.

        Multiple -r options may be given, in which case each qrunner will run
        once in round-robin fashion.  The special runner `All' is shorthand
        for a qrunner for each listed by the -l option.
...

  If power of 2 is important, it should be noted in qrunner's help too.
  (Also "then 1:1 is used" is wrong, usually 0:1 is used.)

> I don't think it really matters, and I'm sure it isn't
> anything to do with the corrupt pickle, but that's what it says.
...

> >  Using "strace" I have found which file it tries to load:
> >
> >$ python
> >>>> file=open("/var/spool/mailman/in/1196682806.813381+4ffeef3dcbdc578279784fb47aa271ad8f6462f7.bak", "r")
> 
> Actually, I hope it was actually trying to open
> 1196682806.813381+4ffeef3dcbdc578279784fb47aa271ad8f6462f7.pck
> and had then renamed it to
> 1196682806.813381+4ffeef3dcbdc578279784fb47aa271ad8f6462f7.bak
> 
> dequeue should never be trying to open a .bak file.

  Sure, I just took last one which was mentioned in strace log.

-- 
 Grigory Batalov,
 ALT Linux Team

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From cyndi at tikvah.com  Wed Dec  5 07:57:43 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 22:57:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many Bounce action notifications
In-Reply-To: <092c01c836f8$5ed13f60$e416a8c0@acer> (tech@craftbits.com)
References: <092c01c836f8$5ed13f60$e416a8c0@acer>
Message-ID: <200712050657.lB56vh7W027412@b.mail.sonic.net>

   From: "Vikram Goyal" <tech at craftbits.com>
   Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:36:13 +1000

   I maintain a medium sized mailing list (over 40000) to which a
   newsletter is sent out every few weeks. Till recently, I had no issues
   with this list, but after the last newsletter was sent out, I have
   started receiving "Bounce action notifications" by the truckload.

Just as something else to consider...

Do the bounce messages quote the newsletter or at least the subject line?
Are you sure it is the newsletter that is bouncing?  Do the email addresses
returning a bounce match subscribers to your list?

There is a new style of spam (well, not that new) that spoofs your return
address and sends out massive amounts of messages to random people (it has
a specific name I can't recall).  Then you get all the bounces (because a
percentage of people will always bounce).

When this has happened to me, I typically get 3-5000 (yes, thousand) bounce
messages over the course of a couple of days.  My husband just got his
first one two and it completely overwhelmed his account.  It has nothing to
do with running a mailing list, though you are more vunerable if your
address is out there on the net.

What you're describing sounds an awful lot like this.  Especially since you
have set up bounces for your list not to come to you.  It sounds like the
address that was spoofed was one used by MM, which would slow down the
system for sure.

Of course, I may be totally off here, but I wanted to throw it out there
just in case.

Cyndi


From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in  Wed Dec  5 08:09:57 2007
From: vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in (Vinita Aggarwal)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:39:57 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there any way,
	where I can select more than one message to approve/discard?
In-Reply-To: <200712050657.lB56vh7W027412@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <009601c8370d$dc777d20$3403010a@undp.org.in>

Hi 

I am new to mailman ...

I have a mailman list. Everyday, I am getting 20-30 messages (few are useful
and few are junks). I have to first approve the message to get circulated. 

Is there any way, where I can select more than one message to
approve/discard? 

Please suggest? 

Regards,
Vinita Aggarwal 

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+vinita.aggarwal=un.org.in at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+vinita.aggarwal=un.org.in at python.org] On
Behalf Of Cyndi Norwitz
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:28 PM
To: tech at craftbits.com
Cc: cyndi at tikvah.com; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Too many Bounce action notifications

   From: "Vikram Goyal" <tech at craftbits.com>
   Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:36:13 +1000

   I maintain a medium sized mailing list (over 40000) to which a
   newsletter is sent out every few weeks. Till recently, I had no issues
   with this list, but after the last newsletter was sent out, I have
   started receiving "Bounce action notifications" by the truckload.

Just as something else to consider...

Do the bounce messages quote the newsletter or at least the subject line?
Are you sure it is the newsletter that is bouncing?  Do the email addresses
returning a bounce match subscribers to your list?

There is a new style of spam (well, not that new) that spoofs your return
address and sends out massive amounts of messages to random people (it has
a specific name I can't recall).  Then you get all the bounces (because a
percentage of people will always bounce).

When this has happened to me, I typically get 3-5000 (yes, thousand) bounce
messages over the course of a couple of days.  My husband just got his
first one two and it completely overwhelmed his account.  It has nothing to
do with running a mailing list, though you are more vunerable if your
address is out there on the net.

What you're describing sounds an awful lot like this.  Especially since you
have set up bounces for your list not to come to you.  It sounds like the
address that was spoofed was one used by MM, which would slow down the
system for sure.

Of course, I may be totally off here, but I wanted to throw it out there
just in case.

Cyndi

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/vinita.aggarwal%40un.or
g.in

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Dec  5 10:01:50 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 03:01:50 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many Bounce action notifications
In-Reply-To: <200712050657.lB56vh7W027412@b.mail.sonic.net>
References: <092c01c836f8$5ed13f60$e416a8c0@acer>
	<200712050657.lB56vh7W027412@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <p06240802c37c18e97261@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/4/07, Cyndi Norwitz wrote:

>  There is a new style of spam (well, not that new) that spoofs your return
>  address and sends out massive amounts of messages to random people (it has
>  a specific name I can't recall).  Then you get all the bounces (because a
>  percentage of people will always bounce).

That would be called a "Joe Job", see <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_job>.

>  What you're describing sounds an awful lot like this.  Especially since you
>  have set up bounces for your list not to come to you.  It sounds like the
>  address that was spoofed was one used by MM, which would slow down the
>  system for sure.

If they were originally sent out with the appropriate 
listname-bounces address, and the joe-job bounces were coming back to 
the list and it was trying to process them, then yes -- this would 
certainly explain a very heavy load on the system.

Otherwise, I'm not sure I have enough information to be able to make 
any more comments on this particular problem.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Dec  5 10:04:52 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 03:04:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there any way,
 where I can select more than one message to approve/discard?
In-Reply-To: <009601c8370d$dc777d20$3403010a@undp.org.in>
References: <009601c8370d$dc777d20$3403010a@undp.org.in>
Message-ID: <p06240803c37c19849697@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/5/07, Vinita Aggarwal wrote:

>  I have a mailman list. Everyday, I am getting 20-30 messages (few are useful
>  and few are junks). I have to first approve the message to get circulated.
>
>  Is there any way, where I can select more than one message to
>  approve/discard?

If you're using a recent version of Mailman, at the top and bottom of 
the web page that shows the moderation queue for each list is a check 
box that says "Discard all messages marked Defer".  You'll have to 
take explicit action on those messages you want to allow through the 
system, but leave the rest set to "Defer", which should be the 
default.

Then select this one check box, and hit the button which says "Submit 
All Data".

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in  Wed Dec  5 10:41:46 2007
From: vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in (Vinita Aggarwal)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:11:46 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there any way,
	where I can select more than one message to approve/discard?
In-Reply-To: <p06240803c37c19849697@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <000c01c83723$10c1f9b0$3403010a@undp.org.in>

No... this option is not available.

Please suggest some other alternative.

Regards,
Vinita Aggarwal

-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at shub-internet.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 2:35 PM
To: Vinita Aggarwal; cyndi at tikvah.com; tech at craftbits.com;
mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is there any way,where I can select more than
one message to approve/discard?

On 12/5/07, Vinita Aggarwal wrote:

>  I have a mailman list. Everyday, I am getting 20-30 messages (few are
useful
>  and few are junks). I have to first approve the message to get
circulated.
>
>  Is there any way, where I can select more than one message to
>  approve/discard?

If you're using a recent version of Mailman, at the top and bottom of 
the web page that shows the moderation queue for each list is a check 
box that says "Discard all messages marked Defer".  You'll have to 
take explicit action on those messages you want to allow through the 
system, but leave the rest set to "Defer", which should be the 
default.

Then select this one check box, and hit the button which says "Submit 
All Data".

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>



From mohamed.chaari at st.com  Wed Dec  5 10:53:36 2007
From: mohamed.chaari at st.com (Mohamed CHAARI)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:53:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password monthly reminder
Message-ID: <47567520.2040404@st.com>

Hello,

In Mailman, there are 2 places where to configure the password monthly 
reminder:
- the first one is List Administration page, 'General Options' section, 
relative to the list as a whole
- the second one is in 'Subscription Options' page, relative to each 
list member

I would like to know what is the exact behavior of this option:
for example, as a list admin I have the 'reminder list flag' set to 'On' 
, then a member X set the 'reminder user flag' to Off ==> what are the 
consequences ? which flag override the other ?

According to the doc, the user flag override the list flag, but in this 
case, I don't understand the usefulness of the reminder list flag: 
assume the list admin set the reminder list flag to 'Off', it has no 
impact because default reminder user flag is set to 'On' and users will 
continue to receive reminders ... do you confirm ?

I have another question: where is stored the subscriber options ? Are 
they in the Mailman DB/Conf files ?
For example, in config.pck conf file , I found the reminder list flag:

/usr/lib/mailman/bin/dumpdb /var/lib/mailman/lists/mylist/config.pck | 
grep reminder

'send_reminders': 1,

but I didn't find the reminder user flag in this file.

Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks

-- 
---
--Mohamed CHAARI   (mailto : mohamed.chaari at st.com)

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Wed Dec  5 12:49:18 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 06:49:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shared non-member filters
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200711191518060406802963dc@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200711191518060406802963dc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4756903E.1060902@Media-Brokers.com>

On 11/19/2007, Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net) wrote:
> My question is do people think they might use this ability to 
> reference a list in the other *_these_nonmembers lists, and should it
> be documented for them too.

Sorry for the belated response...

Yes, I can see the potential benefit for this ability. I have no need 
for it currently, but you never know.

So, my vote would be to keep and document it...

Thanks for the .10b1 release - now just have to wait for the gentoo dev 
to make the ebuild available in the official portage tree (I haven't 
opened the can of worms that keeping my own, local repository of 
unofficial ebuilds yet, if I ever will)...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Wed Dec  5 12:52:55 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 06:52:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing admin email addresses
In-Reply-To: <668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A07A122BA17@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>
References: <668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A07A122BA0A@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>	<PC17602007111920591500624a739bad@msapiro>
	<668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A07A122BA17@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>
Message-ID: <47569117.4030104@Media-Brokers.com>

On 11/20/2007, Spyro Polymiadis (spyropolymiadis at kromestudios.com)
wrote:
> There are 2 admins on there.. 1 person is on All of them, and the 
> person who left is on about half of them.

In the future, you might consider just using some generic addresses, 
like list-admin-1, list-admin-2, etc, and then simply alias those to 
whoever is assigned that role - this way you just change the alias to 
change the admin... Thats how I do all of my admin stuff, not just for 
mailman...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From mdonada at auroraalimentos.com.br  Wed Dec  5 12:44:36 2007
From: mdonada at auroraalimentos.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1rcio_Luciano_Donada?=)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:44:36 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delayed delivery
Message-ID: <47568F24.1000708@auroraalimentos.com.br>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
 
Hi,
Now I have the mail server using debian etch with postfix. This same
server have installed mailman and I have noticed that many times the
mailman take long to deliver messages, sometimes even more than an
hour. I wonder what you have when using the same e-mail server has the
mailman to manage mailing lists.

# postconf -n
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases,
ldap:/etc/postfix/ldap/ldap-aliases.cf, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
anvil_rate_time_unit = 60s
biff = no
body_checks = regexp:/etc/postfix/maps/body_checks.cf
bounce_queue_lifetime = 1d
broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
command_directory = /usr/sbin
config_directory = /etc/postfix
content_filter = amavis:[127.0.0.1]:10024
daemon_directory = /usr/lib/postfix
default_destination_concurrency_limit = 25
default_destination_recipient_limit = 25
disable_vrfy_command = yes
empty_address_recipient = MAILER-DAEMON
header_checks = regexp:/etc/postfix/maps/header_checks.cf
home_mailbox = Maildir/
inet_protocols = all
local_recipient_maps = unix:passwd.byname,
ldap:/etc/postfix/ldap/ldap.cf, $alias_maps
mailbox_command = /usr/bin/procmail -p -t -m /etc/procmailrc
mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq
maximal_queue_lifetime = 1d
message_size_limit = 20240000
mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, $mydomain,
frigorifico-aurora.com.br
mydomain = domian.com.br
myhostname = mx.domian.com.br
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8
newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases
owner_request_special = no
recipient_bcc_maps =
hash:/etc/postfix/monitoramento/recebimento_bcc_email.cf
recipient_delimiter = +
relay_domains = $mydestination
sender_bcc_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/monitoramento/envio_bcc_email.cf
sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail
smtp_tls_note_starttls_offer = yes
smtp_use_tls = yes
smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP
smtpd_client_connection_count_limit = 25
smtpd_client_connection_rate_limit = 25
smtpd_client_restrictions = check_client_access
hash:/etc/postfix/maps/access
smtpd_data_restrictions = reject_unauth_pipelining
smtpd_etrn_restrictions = reject
smtpd_hard_error_limit = 100
smtpd_helo_required = yes
smtpd_recipient_limit = 10
smtpd_recipient_restrictions =
reject_non_fqdn_recipient,                             
reject_unknown_recipient_domain,            
permit_mynetworks,                              
permit_sasl_authenticated,                             
reject_unauth_destination,                           
reject_sender_login_mismatch,                           permit
smtpd_restriction_classes = check_greylist
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
smtpd_sasl_local_domain = $myhostname
smtpd_sasl_security_options = noanonymous
smtpd_sender_restrictions =
permit_sasl_authenticated,                     
reject_sender_login_mismatch,                       
permit_mynetworks,                      
reject_unauth_destination,                     
hash:/etc/postfix/maps/access
smtpd_tls_cert_file = /etc/postfix/ssl/smtpd.cert
smtpd_tls_key_file = /etc/postfix/ssl/smtpd.key
smtpd_tls_loglevel = 1
smtpd_tls_received_header = yes
smtpd_tls_session_cache_timeout = 3600s
smtpd_use_tls = yes
tls_random_source = dev:/dev/urandom
transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550


some ideias
thnx!!!

- --
M?rcio Luciano Donada <mdonada at auroraalimentos dot com dot br>
Aurora Alimentos - Cooperativa Central Oeste Catarinense
Departamento de T.I.
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From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Dec  5 16:31:26 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 07:31:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password monthly reminder
In-Reply-To: <47567520.2040404@st.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712050731260640e6e9d3da@msapiro>

Mohamed CHAARI wrote:
>
>I would like to know what is the exact behavior of this option:
>for example, as a list admin I have the 'reminder list flag' set to 'On' 
>, then a member X set the 'reminder user flag' to Off ==> what are the 
>consequences ? which flag override the other ?


The user who sets reminder's Off doesn't get them. Others are not affected.


>According to the doc, the user flag override the list flag, but in this 
>case, I don't understand the usefulness of the reminder list flag: 
>assume the list admin set the reminder list flag to 'Off', it has no 
>impact because default reminder user flag is set to 'On' and users will 
>continue to receive reminders ... do you confirm ?


No. The doc is misleading. If the list option is Off, no one gets reminders
regardless of user options. The user option only overrides the list option if
the list option is On and the user option is Off.


>I have another question: where is stored the subscriber options ? Are 
>they in the Mailman DB/Conf files ?
>For example, in config.pck conf file , I found the reminder list flag:
>
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/dumpdb /var/lib/mailman/lists/mylist/config.pck | 
>grep reminder
>
>'send_reminders': 1,
>
>but I didn't find the reminder user flag in this file.


Assuming you have a standard Mailman without a custom MemberAdaptor, this same
config.pck has a dictionary called user_options with user emails as keys and a
number as the value. This number is a bit string that defines the user option
flags. The bit definitions are in Defaults.py under the heading "Bitfield for
user options".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Dec  5 16:33:35 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:33:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there any way,
 where I can select more than one message to approve/discard?
In-Reply-To: <000c01c83723$10c1f9b0$3403010a@undp.org.in>
References: <000c01c83723$10c1f9b0$3403010a@undp.org.in>
Message-ID: <p06240800c37c7423d3f3@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/5/07, Vinita Aggarwal wrote:

>  No... this option is not available.
>
>  Please suggest some other alternative.

There are command-line tools you could use, if you had privileged 
access to a shell account on the server where Mailman is hosted (see 
FAQs 3.61 & 4.71), but I don't think these are likely to be available 
to you if you can't install a new version of Mailman.  There are also 
some additional web administration tools (see FAQ 3.53), but I don't 
think that any of them automate the problem you're having.  Of 
course, you could always make source-code level changes to the 
version of Mailman you're running, but then if you could do that then 
you could probably upgrade to a more recent version.

As far as this particular issue is concerned, I'm afraid there aren't 
many alternative options that are likely to be available to you.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Dec  5 16:34:33 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:34:33 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delayed delivery
In-Reply-To: <47568F24.1000708@auroraalimentos.com.br>
References: <47568F24.1000708@auroraalimentos.com.br>
Message-ID: <p06240801c37c756f21e1@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/5/07, M?rcio Luciano Donada wrote:

>  Now I have the mail server using debian etch with postfix. This same
>  server have installed mailman and I have noticed that many times the
>  mailman take long to deliver messages, sometimes even more than an
>  hour. I wonder what you have when using the same e-mail server has the
>  mailman to manage mailing lists.

Search the Mailman FAQ Wizard for "performance tuning".

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mohamed.chaari at st.com  Wed Dec  5 16:50:54 2007
From: mohamed.chaari at st.com (Mohamed CHAARI)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:50:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password monthly reminder
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712050731260640e6e9d3da@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200712050731260640e6e9d3da@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4756C8DE.2030102@st.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mohamed CHAARI wrote:
>> I would like to know what is the exact behavior of this option:
>> for example, as a list admin I have the 'reminder list flag' set to 'On' 
>> , then a member X set the 'reminder user flag' to Off ==> what are the 
>> consequences ? which flag override the other ?
> 
> 
> The user who sets reminder's Off doesn't get them. Others are not affected.
> 
> 
>> According to the doc, the user flag override the list flag, but in this 
>> case, I don't understand the usefulness of the reminder list flag: 
>> assume the list admin set the reminder list flag to 'Off', it has no 
>> impact because default reminder user flag is set to 'On' and users will 
>> continue to receive reminders ... do you confirm ?
> 
> 
> No. The doc is misleading. If the list option is Off, no one gets reminders
> regardless of user options. The user option only overrides the list option if
> the list option is On and the user option is Off.
> 
> 

ok

>> I have another question: where is stored the subscriber options ? Are 
>> they in the Mailman DB/Conf files ?
>> For example, in config.pck conf file , I found the reminder list flag:
>>
>> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/dumpdb /var/lib/mailman/lists/mylist/config.pck | 
>> grep reminder
>>
>> 'send_reminders': 1,
>>
>> but I didn't find the reminder user flag in this file.
> 
> 
> Assuming you have a standard Mailman without a custom MemberAdaptor, this same
> config.pck has a dictionary called user_options with user emails as keys and a
> number as the value. This number is a bit string that defines the user option
> flags. The bit definitions are in Defaults.py under the heading "Bitfield for
> user options".
> 

thank you, it's very clear now.


-- 
---
--Mohamed CHAARI   (mailto : mohamed.chaari at st.com)

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Dec  5 17:05:58 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 08:05:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delayed delivery
In-Reply-To: <47568F24.1000708@auroraalimentos.com.br>
References: <47568F24.1000708@auroraalimentos.com.br>
Message-ID: <4756CC66.9010503@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

M?rcio Luciano Donada wrote:
> Hi,
> Now I have the mail server using debian etch with postfix. This same
> server have installed mailman and I have noticed that many times the
> mailman take long to deliver messages, sometimes even more than an
> hour. I wonder what you have when using the same e-mail server has the
> mailman to manage mailing lists.
>
> # postconf -n
<snip>
> smtpd_recipient_limit = 10


What do you have in mm_cfg.py for SMTP_MAX_RCPTS? The default is 500 and
if you do not have VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 or personalization to
cause Mailman to send individual messages, you may be sending more
recipients per transaction than Postfix will accept causing multiple
retries.

Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.004.htp>
for much more.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From sandra at ccuec.unicamp.br  Wed Dec  5 17:06:16 2007
From: sandra at ccuec.unicamp.br (Sandra)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:06:16 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how migrate mojo archives to mailman archive
Message-ID: <4756CC78.7050202@ccuec.unicamp.br>

Hello,

   I would like to migrate mojo list archive to a mailman list archive.
   Do you have any idea to do that? Have anybody done it before.

Thanks a lot.

sandra


From bga at altlinux.org  Wed Dec  5 19:36:20 2007
From: bga at altlinux.org (Grigory Batalov)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:36:20 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Memory usage
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c37b547c6872@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <20071204070105.33d91902.bga@altlinux.org>
	<PC17602007120320141409684d998c16@msapiro>
	<20071204205612.6c5c96f1.bga@altlinux.org>
	<p06240802c37b547c6872@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <20071205213620.13f6074c.bga@altlinux.org>

On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:19:16 -0600, Brad Knowles wrote:

> >   It was 25Mb maximum in my previous letter, now it is 36Mb:
> >
> >  $ top
> >    PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
> >  17660 mailman   15   0  101M  36M 2668 S  0.0  1.8   0:41.33 qrunner
> >  32356 mailman   15   0  100M  35M 2668 S  0.0  1.7   0:38.30 qrunner
> >  17584 mailman   15   0  100M  35M 2668 S  0.0  1.7   0:40.04 qrunner
> >  32739 mailman   18   0 99.7M  34M 2660 S  0.0  1.7   0:33.94 qrunner
> >   3182 mailman   15   0 99.5M  34M 2668 S  0.0  1.7   0:39.10 qrunner
> >  ....
> >
> >   Some of them took up to 200Mb (!) before I had to restart them.
> >   All this looks like slow and fast memory leak.
> 
> That's not so different from what we've got on python.org (see 
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.015.htp>), 
> and the RSS for our qrunners is between 11MB and 41MB, depending on 
> the specific runner.  Note that neither yours nor ours are sucking up 
> any CPU time, so they're primed for being paged or swapped out if you 
> do run into any memory pressure.  Also note that all that Linux stats 
> quoted on 
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.056.htp> 
> are from the python.org machines.
> 
> I'm not a Linux performance tuning expert, but I'm not seeing any 
> real problems in what you've shown us so far.  If you are seeing 
> problems, then you might want to consult a Linux performance tuning 
> expert.

  The problem is that some qrunners quickly eat memory. Most of them
  use 20-37Mb after 13 hours of running. But today several qrunners
  6 times took above 200Mb! Fortunately now I have Monit that checks
  memory usage, and kills such runners.

  I wrote previous letter after server failure when 2 greedy qrunners
  took 249 and 235 Mb. In that moment even crond couldn't fork and
  mail delivery was aborted.

  After that I have increased memory limit to 2Gb and started Monit
  daemon to prevent such failure.

-- 
 Grigory Batalov,
 ALT Linux Team
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From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Wed Dec  5 23:03:12 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:03:12 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Eliminating Duplicate Postings
Message-ID: <200712052203.lB5M3Cda008321@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

A few days ago in one of my Mailman 2.1.9 lists, a posting at 7AM
was distributed to the members without problem.  The mail is addressed
to two lists, and both lists received, archived, and distributed the
mail.

At 5PM one of the recipients must have forwarded the mail back to
the lists.  The RFC 822/2822 mail headers have the same

     Return-Path:
     From:
     To:

lines as the original mail, and in addition there is a header line

     X-BeenThere: ...

for one of the lists (i.e., the list to which this recipient is
subscribed).  The mail reached Mailman.  I see in the Postfix
logs

     status=bounced (mail forwarding loop for LISTNAME)

I assume this is because there already is an X-BeenThere line for that
list.  The mail to the other Mailman list was accepted by Mailman
and redistributed to that list.  But I do not see a copy of the
second distribution in the archives.  I can see why Mailman accepted
the 5PM mail - it had an authorized "From:" address.  But why was
the mail not archived?  Because it was a duplicate mail?  

I would expect to have the archives contain a record of what was
sent.  Should Mailman have caught the duplicate posting?

I have not been in contact with the recipient to determine exactly what
he/she did.  I would like to prevent this from occurring in the future.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From rod at coate.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Dec  5 23:43:32 2007
From: rod at coate.fsnet.co.uk (Rod@freeserve)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 22:43:32 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix won't recognise lists built by Mailman.
Message-ID: <00af01c83790$43bbab50$0202a8c0@newbuild>

Hi

I have had an installation of Mailman on RedHat with Sendmail for some year. It's worked really well - installed out of the box and made to work with very little pain. Worked so well I've never needed to post a message here before, although I've often browsed the archives from time to time. 

Now the installation has had to be moved to a fine new server with Postfix on Linux RHEL 5. It seems to work well for standard mail purposes. But I have been trying for several days to get it working with Mailman.

Originally the problem was with my setup of Mailman - Apache didn't like the Mailman installation at /usr/local/mailman so I moved it to /var/www/html/mailman ,  fiddled with file and folder permissions and eventually settled on using the cgi-gid user and the mailman group, and at last Apache was happy. I can set lists up, configure them through the web, and receive notifications about new lists.

But I cannot get a message through to the lists. Each list address returns "invalid user".

The problem in summary is that Postfix does not appear to recognise the Mailman list. Can anyone help or suggest areas where I should look?

Here's the detail.

I build a Mailman list called test, add an address to the mailing list, and manually add the relevant alias to /etc/postfix/aliases (and then run postalias), and finally send a message to the
list address.

The error response "Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender" comes in by email, and the Postfix mail log says:
----------
Dec  5 15:27:04 localhost postfix/pipe[3185]: 15373754FE: to=<test at AAAAAA.net>,
relay=maildrop, delay=0.07, delays=0.04/0/0/0.02, dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced (user unknown.
Command output: Invalid user specified. )
----------

The Mailman logs show no activity, i.e. the message has not been handled by Mailman. What seems to be happening is that Postfix is trying to deliver the message to a mailbox,
instead of to the command in the aliases file. There is no mailbox 'test' on this server.

Aliases contains this line:
----------
test:              "|/var/www/html/mailman/mail/mailman post test"
----------

I've 'set allow_mail_to_commands = alias' in Postfix's main.cf.

The question for Mailman experts who also know Postfix is - is this clearly a problem with my Postfix setup, or could the problem be that I have the wrong --with-mail-gid ?? If I had the mail-gid wrong, would this show up in the Mailman logs?

After painfully trying lots of systematic changes to the Postfix setup without success, all I can think of now is either I'm using the wrong --with-mail-gid or I need to move the Mailman aliases into a separate mm.aliases file (then run postalias and amend the Postfix main.cf to recognise this) and change the permissions on that. If neither of those work I really have no idea where to go next.

It's late here and I'm finishing for the day now. But if anyone has any input to point me in the right direction tomorrow I'd really appreciate it.

Rod


From rod at coate.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Dec  5 23:39:06 2007
From: rod at coate.fsnet.co.uk (Rod@freeserve)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 22:39:06 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix won't recognise lists built by Mailman.
Message-ID: <008401c8378f$a559b5b0$0202a8c0@newbuild>

Hi

I have had an installation of Mailman on RedHat with Sendmail for some year. It's worked really well - installed out of the box and made to work with very little pain. Worked so well I've never needed to post a message here before, although I've often browsed the archives from time to time. 

Now the installation has had to be moved to a fine new server with Postfix on Linux RHEL 5. It seems to work well for standard mail purposes. But I have been trying for several days to get it working with Mailman.

Originally the problem was with my setup of Mailman - Apache didn't like the Mailman installation at /usr/local/mailman so I moved it to /var/www/html/mailman ,  fiddled with file and folder permissions and eventually settled on using the cgi-gid user and the mailman group, and at last Apache was happy. I can set lists up, configure them through the web, and receive notifications about new lists.

But I cannot get a message through to the lists. Each list address returns "invalid user".

The problem in summary is that Postfix does not appear to recognise the Mailman list. Can anyone help or suggest areas where I should look?

Here's the detail.

I build a Mailman list called test, add an address to the mailing list, and manually add the relevant alias to /etc/postfix/aliases (and then run postalias), and finally send a message to the
list address.

The error response "Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender" comes in by email, and the Postfix mail log says:
----------
Dec  5 15:27:04 localhost postfix/pipe[3185]: 15373754FE: to=<test at AAAAAA.net>,
relay=maildrop, delay=0.07, delays=0.04/0/0/0.02, dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced (user unknown.
Command output: Invalid user specified. )
----------

The Mailman logs show no activity, i.e. the message has not been handled by Mailman. What seems to be happening is that Postfix is trying to deliver the message to a mailbox,
instead of to the command in the aliases file. There is no mailbox 'test' on this server.

Aliases contains this line:
----------
test:              "|/var/www/html/mailman/mail/mailman post test"
----------

I've 'set allow_mail_to_commands = alias' in Postfix's main.cf.

The question for Mailman experts who also know Postfix is - is this clearly a problem with my Postfix setup, or could the problem be that I have the wrong --with-mail-gid ?? If I had the mail-gid wrong, would this show up in the Mailman logs?

After painfully trying lots of systematic changes to the Postfix setup without success, all I can think of now is either I'm using the wrong --with-mail-gid or I need to move the Mailman aliases into a separate mm.aliases file (then run postalias and amend the Postfix main.cf to recognise this) and change the permissions on that. If neither of those work I really have no idea where to go next.

It's late here and I'm finishing for the day now. But if anyone has any input to point me in the right direction tomorrow I'd really appreciate it.

Rod


From tech at craftbits.com  Thu Dec  6 00:01:27 2007
From: tech at craftbits.com (Vikram Goyal)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 09:01:27 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many Bounce action notifications
References: <092c01c836f8$5ed13f60$e416a8c0@acer>
	<200712050657.lB56vh7W027412@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<p06240802c37c18e97261@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <005f01c83792$da848550$e416a8c0@acer>

Funnily enough, the messages stopped the moment I sent the 
previous reply. As Mark suggested earlier, it could be because 
"all" the bounces happened at once because of the threshold 
coming at once.

Thanks everyone for their comments and suggestions.

Regards,
Vikram
tech at craftbits.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brad Knowles" <brad at shub-internet.org>
To: <cyndi at tikvah.com>; <tech at craftbits.com>
Cc: <cyndi at tikvah.com>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Too many Bounce action notifications


> On 12/4/07, Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
>
>>  There is a new style of spam (well, not that new) that spoofs 
>> your return
>>  address and sends out massive amounts of messages to random 
>> people (it has
>>  a specific name I can't recall).  Then you get all the 
>> bounces (because a
>>  percentage of people will always bounce).
>
> That would be called a "Joe Job", see 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_job>.
>
>>  What you're describing sounds an awful lot like this. 
>> Especially since you
>>  have set up bounces for your list not to come to you.  It 
>> sounds like the
>>  address that was spoofed was one used by MM, which would slow 
>> down the
>>  system for sure.
>
> If they were originally sent out with the appropriate 
> listname-bounces address, and the joe-job bounces were coming 
> back to the list and it was trying to process them, then yes --  
> this would certainly explain a very heavy load on the system.
>
> Otherwise, I'm not sure I have enough information to be able to 
> make any more comments on this particular problem.
>
> -- 
> Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
> 



From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec  6 01:36:16 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:36:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Eliminating Duplicate Postings
In-Reply-To: <200712052203.lB5M3Cda008321@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712051636160250dcfc026a@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:

>A few days ago in one of my Mailman 2.1.9 lists, a posting at 7AM
>was distributed to the members without problem.  The mail is addressed
>to two lists, and both lists received, archived, and distributed the
>mail.
>
>At 5PM one of the recipients must have forwarded the mail back to
>the lists.  The RFC 822/2822 mail headers have the same
>
>     Return-Path:
>     From:
>     To:
>
>lines as the original mail, and in addition there is a header line
>
>     X-BeenThere: ...
>
>for one of the lists (i.e., the list to which this recipient is
>subscribed).  The mail reached Mailman.  I see in the Postfix
>logs
>
>     status=bounced (mail forwarding loop for LISTNAME)
>
>I assume this is because there already is an X-BeenThere line for that
>list.


I am confused about the Postfix log entry. The X-BeenThere: header is generated
by Mailman on outgoing mail and is checked by Mailman on incoming mail to
avoid reposting the same message to the same list. A message to a list with an
X-BeenThere: for that list will be discarded and logged as a discard in the
vette log.

Postfix should pay no attention to an X-BeenThere: header, but It may have
detected a loop on some other criteria.


>The mail to the other Mailman list was accepted by Mailman
>and redistributed to that list.  But I do not see a copy of the
>second distribution in the archives.  I can see why Mailman accepted
>the 5PM mail - it had an authorized "From:" address.  But why was
>the mail not archived?  Because it was a duplicate mail?


If you look in the archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox for the list,
you will see both messages, but pipermail did not add it to the HTML archive
because of the duplicate Message-ID:.


>I would expect to have the archives contain a record of what was
>sent.  Should Mailman have caught the duplicate posting?


Other than X-BeenThere:, Mailman doesn't detect duplicates. It archived the
message as you will see from the archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox
file, but pipermail did detect the duplicate Message-ID: and didn't add the
second copy to the same list's HTML archive.


>I have not been in contact with the recipient to determine exactly what
>he/she did.  I would like to prevent this from occurring in the future.


It's hard to know what happened, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were not
some brain dead MTA doing this. I have seen messages returned to me that
apparently got to some MTA that then decided to deliver a copy back to me
apparently because I was in a To: or Cc: header of the original.

Go to the archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file and find the second
message (or a copy of it if you have it) and look at the chain of Received:
headers for clues.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From wheakory at isu.edu  Thu Dec  6 00:42:42 2007
From: wheakory at isu.edu (Kory Wheatley)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:42:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the subscribers moderation flag
In-Reply-To: <475638CF.2090105@msapiro.net>
References: <475638CF.2090105@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <47573772.40507@isu.edu>

Question:

Every week we have a Mailman Mailing list that automatically has the 
subscribers refreshed with a list in a file.  There's a step that I 
would like to add in this automated process and wonder if its possible.  
Would it be possible to write a procedure to uncheck the moderate flag 
in the mailing list for seven email subscriber addresses which are 
authorized to send to the list?  We only want a selected number to be 
able to send emails without moderation but this has to be done to these 
7 email addresses once a week after the list is refreshed with the 
automated new subscriber list.  Can I use "withlist" and a python script 
to do this.  I've written Python scripts but for this one I don't know 
what options to change on the users subscribed configuration.




From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec  6 02:08:08 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 17:08:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the subscribers moderation flag
In-Reply-To: <47573772.40507@isu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020071205170808096822bd5c50@msapiro>

Kory Wheatley wrote:
>
>Every week we have a Mailman Mailing list that automatically has the 
>subscribers refreshed with a list in a file.  There's a step that I 
>would like to add in this automated process and wonder if its possible.  
>Would it be possible to write a procedure to uncheck the moderate flag 
>in the mailing list for seven email subscriber addresses which are 
>authorized to send to the list?  We only want a selected number to be 
>able to send emails without moderation but this has to be done to these 
>7 email addresses once a week after the list is refreshed with the 
>automated new subscriber list.


The easy answer is use bin/sync_members to refresh the list and you won't have
this problem.


>Can I use "withlist" and a python script 
>to do this.  I've written Python scripts but for this one I don't know 
>what options to change on the users subscribed configuration.


See <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/set_mod.py> (mirrored at
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/set_mod.py>)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec  6 02:42:01 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 17:42:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix won't recognise lists built by Mailman.
In-Reply-To: <008401c8378f$a559b5b0$0202a8c0@newbuild>
Message-ID: <PC176020071205174201075022bd5b6f@msapiro>

Rod at freeserve wrote:
>
>I build a Mailman list called test, add an address to the mailing list, and manually add the relevant alias to /etc/postfix/aliases (and then run postalias), and finally send a message to the
>list address.


You may find it easier to use Postfix-Mailman integration as described at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html>, but that may cause group
mismatch errors if you don't already have them, so I suggest not doing that
immediately.


>The error response "Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender" comes in by email, and the Postfix mail log says:
>----------
>Dec  5 15:27:04 localhost postfix/pipe[3185]: 15373754FE: to=<test at AAAAAA.net>,
>relay=maildrop, delay=0.07, delays=0.04/0/0/0.02, dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced (user unknown.
>Command output: Invalid user specified. )
>----------
>
>The Mailman logs show no activity, i.e. the message has not been handled by Mailman. What seems to be happening is that Postfix is trying to deliver the message to a mailbox,
>instead of to the command in the aliases file. There is no mailbox 'test' on this server.


Actually, it's trying to deliver to a maildrop. See
<http://www.postfix.org/MAILDROP_README.html>


>Aliases contains this line:
>----------
>test:              "|/var/www/html/mailman/mail/mailman post test"
>----------
>
>I've 'set allow_mail_to_commands = alias' in Postfix's main.cf.


It never gets to your alias because the maildrop delivery takes priority.


>The question for Mailman experts who also know Postfix is - is this clearly a problem with my Postfix setup, or could the problem be that I have the wrong --with-mail-gid ?? If I had the mail-gid wrong, would this show up in the Mailman logs?


It is not a group mismatch. No, a group mismatch is not logged in Mailman, but
there will be a clear message from the wrapper both in the Postfix log and the
DSN sent back to the poster.


>After painfully trying lots of systematic changes to the Postfix setup without success, all I can think of now is either I'm using the wrong --with-mail-gid or I need to move the Mailman aliases into a separate mm.aliases file (then run postalias and amend the Postfix main.cf to recognise this) and change the permissions on that. If neither of those work I really have no idea where to go next.


You should move the aliases per the documentation I linked above, but that
won't solve this problem. You need to make sure that 'maildrop' is not
configured as the transport for this domain.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Dec  6 03:27:13 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:27:13 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Memory usage
In-Reply-To: <20071205213620.13f6074c.bga@altlinux.org>
References: <20071204070105.33d91902.bga@altlinux.org>
	<PC17602007120320141409684d998c16@msapiro>
	<20071204205612.6c5c96f1.bga@altlinux.org>
	<p06240802c37b547c6872@[192.168.1.101]>
	<20071205213620.13f6074c.bga@altlinux.org>
Message-ID: <p06240800c37d0b91521e@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/5/07, Grigory Batalov wrote:

>   The problem is that some qrunners quickly eat memory. Most of them
>   use 20-37Mb after 13 hours of running. But today several qrunners
>   6 times took above 200Mb! Fortunately now I have Monit that checks
>   memory usage, and kills such runners.

I'm reasonably sure there aren't any memory leaks in the Mailman or 
Python code, but unless someone who is an expert in locating memory 
leaks in the code can step forward and give us a complete 
stem-to-stern audit and give us hard confirmation one way or the 
other, we're not likely to get any further down this road.

If you can look at the code and tell us that you're definitely 
finding memory leaks, then I'm sure that the core developers will 
look very closely at that.  Otherwise, I know that this is one of 
they things they're always on the lookout for, and they eliminate 
them as soon as they find them.


If you are, or you can get, a Linux performance tuning expert to look 
closely at your system and tell you exactly what is going on, we'd 
love to find out what they have to say.  But we're not Linux 
performance tuning experts ourselves, and it's hard for us to try to 
guess as to why you're seeing such strange behaviour when I certainly 
don't recall hearing any such reports from anyone else in a very long 
time.

The last time we had such reports, it was because someone didn't 
understand the nature of how Unix-like OSes work and how they 
aggressively try to cache everything in memory, which is why I wrote 
the FAQ entry that you do not find to be of any use.


I am not a Linux performance tuning expert, but I have a fair amount 
of experience in doing general purpose Unix performance tuning, and I 
have a certain amount of lower-level kernel knowledge of how the 
various components within most Unix-like OSes interact with each 
other.

My problem is that I don't fully understand how this knowledge could 
be transferred or translated into a Linux environment.

>   I wrote previous letter after server failure when 2 greedy qrunners
>   took 249 and 235 Mb. In that moment even crond couldn't fork and
>   mail delivery was aborted.

I don't know what's going on.  I didn't see it happen.  From what I 
have seen of what your tools are reporting, there's definitely some 
very strange stuff going on, but I can't tell if the problem is that 
the tool is broken and therefore it's not reporting useful 
information, or if there is something else going on.

Certainly, your tools should not be saying that there is literally 
zero memory that is active, and literally zero memory that is 
inactive, with over a gigabyte of RAM being marked as free.  That's 
absolutely the furthest away possible type of situation that we would 
expect to see, based on what you're reporting in terms of how much 
memory is being used by the queue runners.

>   After that I have increased memory limit to 2Gb and started Monit
>   daemon to prevent such failure.

That may help, but until you figure out why netstat is reporting such 
totally and completely bogus numbers, I really don't think you're 
going to get anywhere that is very useful.

I suspect, but I have no evidence to back up this claim, that the 
problem may be related to the fact that you're running under a 
virtualization system.

I would suggest trying to run Mailman and the MTA directly underneath 
the primary OS on the machine (frequently called "domain zero" or 
"dom0" in virtualization parlance), and see if that at least helps 
the tools produce information that makes more sense.

Running under dom0 may not solve the actual underlying problem of the 
Mailman queue runners sucking up so much RAM, but at the very least 
it would help reduce the complexity of the system we're trying to 
help you debug.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From rpyne at kinfolk.org  Thu Dec  6 03:51:24 2007
From: rpyne at kinfolk.org (Richard Pyne)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:51:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not populating virtual-mailman
Message-ID: <4757013C.22833.2ECBDB@rpyne.kinfolk.org>

I have been running mailman for several years with few problems. I have 
now set up a new server and can't get mailman to populate the virtual-
domain file when I create a new list. It does populate the aliases 
correctly and it did create the virtual-mailman entry for the default 
"mailman" list when I did the installation.

Any help or hints where to look will be greatly appreciated.

--Richard

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec  6 04:05:53 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:05:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not populating virtual-mailman
In-Reply-To: <4757013C.22833.2ECBDB@rpyne.kinfolk.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020071205190553009322bd5912@msapiro>

Richard Pyne wrote:

>I have been running mailman for several years with few problems. I have 
>now set up a new server and can't get mailman to populate the virtual-
>domain file when I create a new list. It does populate the aliases 
>correctly and it did create the virtual-mailman entry for the default 
>"mailman" list when I did the installation.


Mailman only creates virtual-mailman entries for lists whose email host
(host_name) is listed in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec  6 04:35:31 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:35:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Broken pickle
In-Reply-To: <20071205094600.183451b2.bga@altlinux.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020071205193531007822bd58ed@msapiro>

Grigory Batalov wrote:
>
>On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 17:06:36 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> >  Also, as you can see, I have no IncomingRunner:1:6 and it fails to start
>> >  every time I try to:
>> >
>> >$ sudo -u mailman /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:1:6
>> 
>> Note that the documentation states that the number of slices must be a
>> power of two.
>
>  Which documentation?
>
>Mailman/Defaults.py.in:677
># BAW: Although not enforced, the # of slices must be a power of 2


That's the one I was referring to.


>$ /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --help
>...
>    -r runner[:slice:range]
>    --runner=runner[:slice:range]
>        Run the named qrunner, which must be one of the strings returned by
>        the -l option.  Optional slice:range if given, is used to assign
>        multiple qrunner processes to a queue.  range is the total number of
>        qrunners for this queue while slice is the number of this qrunner from
>        [0..range).
>
>        If using the slice:range form, you better make sure that each qrunner
>        for the queue is given the same range value.  If slice:runner is not
>        given, then 1:1 is used.
>
>        Multiple -r options may be given, in which case each qrunner will run
>        once in round-robin fashion.  The special runner `All' is shorthand
>        for a qrunner for each listed by the -l option.
>...
>
>  If power of 2 is important, it should be noted in qrunner's help too.
>  (Also "then 1:1 is used" is wrong, usually 0:1 is used.)
>
>> I don't think it really matters, and I'm sure it isn't
>> anything to do with the corrupt pickle, but that's what it says.


As I said, I don't think it is important. I just mentioned it in the first
place because I'd never seen a non-power of two number of slices used before.

As far as the default being 1:1, if you look in the code, that actually is the
default, and it doesn't matter because if the range is 1, the slice number is
ignored.

I agree that it's inconsistent, but I don't think it's worth breaking all the
translations to change it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Thu Dec  6 04:50:11 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:50:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing hostname of active list server
Message-ID: <47577173.5080509@Media-Brokers.com>

According to 4.29 of the FAQ:

-------------------------------------

4.29. Where can I change a list or the default URL used for the web 
interface?
For MM 2.1.2:

  Changing hostnames
  ------------------

These changes should be made $prefix/Mailman/mm_cfg.py. The applicable 
MM config variables are described in $prefix/Mailman/Defaults.py. 
Typically something like what follows, at the end of your mm_cfg.py, 
will do the trick:

  DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'your.mailhostname.tld'
  DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'your.webhostname.tld'
  VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
  add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

and some more add_virtualhost(URL_FQDN, EMAIL_FQDN) if you are using 
virtual hosts.

DEFAULT_URL_HOST should be a fully qualified host name, not an actual 
URL, e.g. 'mailman.example.com' not 'http://mailman.example.com'.

-------------------------------------------------

Currently, notices with URL references to cancel a posting are of the 
form aaaa.yyyyy.com, and I want to change it to bbbb.zzzz.com.

Is this as simple as setting the DEFAULT_URL_HOST in mm_cfg.py, then 
running:

$prefix/bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url ?

I am running postfix in virtual domains mode, but I only have one domain 
right now, if that matters...

I'm just a little nervous about 'fixing something that ain't broke'... ;)

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec  6 05:40:07 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:40:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing hostname of active list server
In-Reply-To: <47577173.5080509@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712052040070390bad858ad@msapiro>

Charles Marcus wrote:
>
>Currently, notices with URL references to cancel a posting are of the 
>form aaaa.yyyyy.com, and I want to change it to bbbb.zzzz.com.
>
>Is this as simple as setting the DEFAULT_URL_HOST in mm_cfg.py, then 
>running:
>
>$prefix/bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url ?


Yes., but you also want to add the

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

lines to mm_cfg,py following the reassignment of DEFAULT_URL_HOST


>I am running postfix in virtual domains mode, but I only have one domain 
>right now, if that matters...


As long as you aren't changing the email host, this shouldn't have any effect
on Postfix or your Postfix settings.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec  6 06:02:08 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:02:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how migrate mojo archives to mailman archive
In-Reply-To: <4756CC78.7050202@ccuec.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <PC176020071205210208040666be9d3e@msapiro>

Sandra wrote:
>
>   I would like to migrate mojo list archive to a mailman list archive.
>   Do you have any idea to do that? Have anybody done it before.


You need to be able to get your mojo archive in unix mbox format - messages
with headers and separated by standard From_ lines. Then you check for stray
From_ in message bodies with Mailman's bin/cleanarch tool and then use
Mailman's bin/arch tool to build the archive from the mbox.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rpyne at kinfolk.org  Thu Dec  6 06:02:45 2007
From: rpyne at kinfolk.org (Richard Pyne)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:02:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not populating virtual-mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC176020071205190553009322bd5912@msapiro>
References: <4757013C.22833.2ECBDB@rpyne.kinfolk.org>,
	<PC176020071205190553009322bd5912@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47572005.9150.3E4086@rpyne.kinfolk.org>

On 5 Dec 2007 at 19:05, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Richard Pyne wrote:
> 
> >I have been running mailman for several years with few problems. I have
> >now set up a new server and can't get mailman to populate the virtual-
> >domain file when I create a new list. It does populate the aliases
> >correctly and it did create the virtual-mailman entry for the default
> >"mailman" list when I did the installation.
> 
> 
> Mailman only creates virtual-mailman entries for lists whose email host
> (host_name) is listed in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS.

Thanks, I found the problem. I had left out a comma between two entries in 
the POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS.

--Richard




From mohamed.chaari at st.com  Thu Dec  6 10:29:05 2007
From: mohamed.chaari at st.com (Mohamed CHAARI)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 10:29:05 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] running External Archiver on
	background/foreground
In-Reply-To: <PC176020071130103706000092b2d3c6@msapiro>
References: <PC176020071130103706000092b2d3c6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4757C0E1.6090602@st.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mohamed CHAARI wrote:
>> I'm using Mailman for lists management, in a collaboration 
>> infrastructure site.
>> I configured Mailman so that an external archiver is used, but I 
>> hesitate to run this archiver in background or foreground.
>>
>> More concretely, in mm_cfg.py conf file, should I put:
>>
>> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = 'cat > /var/run/mailman/mail_tmp; 
>> /usr/local/bin/external_arch %(listname)s'
>>
>> or
>>
>> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = 'cat > /var/run/mailman/mail_tmp; 
>> /usr/local/bin/external_arch %(listname)s &'
>>
>> What do you recommend ? is there a difference, in terms of performance ?
>> Is there a risk of system overload, for one of the 2 solutions, when 
>> dealing with too big archives ? (I have some archives exceeding 50 M)
> 
> 
> The size of the archive is only going to influence
> /usr/local/bin/external_arch whatever that is. Its performance/run
> time may or may not depend on the size of the archive.
> 
> There are potential issues either way (forground or background). The
> external archiver command is run with the list locked. This is both
> good and bad. It eliminates any potential race condition which might
> overwrite /var/run/mailman/mail_tmp with a second message before the
> first message is processed, at least if only one list is involved, but
> it may keep the list locked for a long time if the external_arch
> process is slow. In addition, if the external_arch shoud do something
> that locks the list, a deadlock results.
> 
> See
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-August/045994.html>.
> 

you mentioned, in the thread above (Aug 2005), that it would be better 
to have a unique temporary file, to avoid conflict problems ...
I've tried this, in mm_cfg.py, using unix timestamp

PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = 'cat > /var/run/mailman/mail_tmp.$(date +%s); 
/usr/local/bin/external_arch.pl %(listname)s &'

but without success.
is there a way to do it ? should I use Python functions to get unix 
timestamp for current date ?

thanks

-- 
---
--Mohamed CHAARI   (mailto : mohamed.chaari at st.com)


From mdonada at auroraalimentos.com.br  Thu Dec  6 12:47:50 2007
From: mdonada at auroraalimentos.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1rcio_Luciano_Donada?=)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 09:47:50 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delayed delivery
In-Reply-To: <4756C7EE.3020106@msapiro.net>
References: <47568F24.1000708@auroraalimentos.com.br>
	<4756C7EE.3020106@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4757E166.9070405@auroraalimentos.com.br>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
 
Mark Sapiro escreveu:
> M?rcio Luciano Donada wrote:
>> Hi, Now I have the mail server using debian etch with postfix.
>> This same server have installed mailman and I have noticed that
>> many times the mailman take long to deliver messages, sometimes
>> even more than an hour. I wonder what you have when using the
>> same e-mail server has the mailman to manage mailing lists.
>
>> # postconf -n
> <snip>
>> smtpd_recipient_limit = 10
>
>
> What do you have in mm_cfg.py for SMTP_MAX_RCPTS? The default is
> 500 and if you do not have VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 or
> personalization to cause Mailman to send individual messages, you
> may be sending more recipients per transaction than Postfix will
> accept causing multiple retries.

Hi, Mark
Thanks for your help, I was checking the mm_cfg.py and not found the
parameter SMTP_MAX_RCPTS. The problem is that I use postfix in the
smtpd_recipient_limit = 10 to limit some users. How should I proceed,
I can simply add the parameter in mm_cfg.py? I need to improve
performance, because the e-mails so much time to be delivered. I am
using the version 2.1.9. The parameter is into default.py the values
is 500.


- --
M?rcio Luciano Donada <mdonada at auroraalimentos dot com dot br>
Aurora Alimentos - Cooperativa Central Oeste Catarinense
Departamento de T.I.
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From mdonada at auroraalimentos.com.br  Thu Dec  6 14:18:45 2007
From: mdonada at auroraalimentos.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1rcio_Luciano_Donada?=)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 11:18:45 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delayed delivery
In-Reply-To: <4757E166.9070405@auroraalimentos.com.br>
References: <47568F24.1000708@auroraalimentos.com.br>	<4756C7EE.3020106@msapiro.net>
	<4757E166.9070405@auroraalimentos.com.br>
Message-ID: <4757F6B5.3040306@auroraalimentos.com.br>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
 
M?rcio Luciano Donada escreveu:
>
>
>> What do you have in mm_cfg.py for SMTP_MAX_RCPTS? The default is
>> 500 and if you do not have VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 or
>> personalization to cause Mailman to send individual messages, you
>>  may be sending more recipients per transaction than Postfix will
>>  accept causing multiple retries.
>
> Hi, Mark Thanks for your help, I was checking the mm_cfg.py and not
> found the parameter SMTP_MAX_RCPTS. The problem is that I use
> postfix in the smtpd_recipient_limit = 10 to limit some users. How
> should I proceed, I can simply add the parameter in mm_cfg.py? I
> need to improve performance, because the e-mails so much time to be
> delivered. I am using the version 2.1.9. The parameter is into
> default.py the values is 500.
>
>

Hi,
I believe that the problem is the configuration of postfix, with the
parameter smtpd_recipient_limit = 15, the mailman sends initially for
the first 15 members of the list and seguinda, after some time for the
others. There were some to improve the performance without that I have
to change the smtpd_recipient_limit, because that would be difficult
to change because of some usu?riso I have on my network, it may
increase the time that the mailman is the delivery of e-mails, group
of 15 destinations.


- --
M?rcio Luciano Donada <mdonada at auroraalimentos dot com dot br>
Aurora Alimentos - Cooperativa Central Oeste Catarinense
Departamento de T.I.
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From rod at coate.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Dec  6 16:40:53 2007
From: rod at coate.fsnet.co.uk (Rod@freeserve)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 15:40:53 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix won't recognise lists built by Mailman.
References: <PC176020071205174201075022bd5b6f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <0c5601c8381e$6414acb0$0202a8c0@newbuild>

Mark

Your diagnosis was exactly right - the problem was that the messages were being handled by
maildrop, and not by local(8). The Postfix README explained the things I hadn't
understood.

Because my server is a pre-configured appliance I need to be careful with changing
transport for the whole domain, but Postfix lets you change the transport for individual
addresses, like this:

list at mydomain.net    local:
list-owner at mydomain.net  local:
etc

Putting these into the Postfix transport table got Postfix sending messages for these
addresses to the Mailman commands. Of course it didn't work straight off, but a look at
the maillog showed a very clear diagnostic from Mailman telling me that Postfix was trying
to execute the commands with a gid of nobody, when I had it set up to use the Postfix gid.
After reconfiguring Mailman with the right gid, the lists started to work and now my
service is back on the air.

A big thankyou to Mark for identifying the problem so clearly and quickly.

I'll look at integrating more closely with Postfix and moving the aliases as suggested in
a few days.

Thanks again.

Rod

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net>
To: "Rod at freeserve" <rod at coate.fsnet.co.uk>
Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Postfix won't recognise lists built by Mailman.


> Rod at freeserve wrote:
> >
> >I build a Mailman list called test, add an address to the mailing list, and manually
add the relevant alias to /etc/postfix/aliases (and then run postalias), and finally send
a message to the
> >list address.
>
>
> You may find it easier to use Postfix-Mailman integration as described at
> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html>, but that may cause group
> mismatch errors if you don't already have them, so I suggest not doing that
> immediately.
>
>
> >The error response "Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender" comes in by email, and the
Postfix mail log says:
> >----------
> >Dec  5 15:27:04 localhost postfix/pipe[3185]: 15373754FE: to=<test at AAAAAA.net>,
> >relay=maildrop, delay=0.07, delays=0.04/0/0/0.02, dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced (user
unknown.
> >Command output: Invalid user specified. )
> >----------
> >
> >The Mailman logs show no activity, i.e. the message has not been handled by Mailman.
What seems to be happening is that Postfix is trying to deliver the message to a mailbox,
> >instead of to the command in the aliases file. There is no mailbox 'test' on this
server.
>
>
> Actually, it's trying to deliver to a maildrop. See
> <http://www.postfix.org/MAILDROP_README.html>
>
>
> >Aliases contains this line:
> >----------
> >test:              "|/var/www/html/mailman/mail/mailman post test"
> >----------
> >
> >I've 'set allow_mail_to_commands = alias' in Postfix's main.cf.
>
>
> It never gets to your alias because the maildrop delivery takes priority.
>
>
> >The question for Mailman experts who also know Postfix is - is this clearly a problem
with my Postfix setup, or could the problem be that I have the wrong --with-mail-gid ?? If
I had the mail-gid wrong, would this show up in the Mailman logs?
>
>
> It is not a group mismatch. No, a group mismatch is not logged in Mailman, but
> there will be a clear message from the wrapper both in the Postfix log and the
> DSN sent back to the poster.
>
>
> >After painfully trying lots of systematic changes to the Postfix setup without success,
all I can think of now is either I'm using the wrong --with-mail-gid or I need to move the
Mailman aliases into a separate mm.aliases file (then run postalias and amend the Postfix
main.cf to recognise this) and change the permissions on that. If neither of those work I
really have no idea where to go next.
>
>
> You should move the aliases per the documentation I linked above, but that
> won't solve this problem. You need to make sure that 'maildrop' is not
> configured as the transport for this domain.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>



From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec  6 17:32:51 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 08:32:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delayed delivery
In-Reply-To: <4757E166.9070405@auroraalimentos.com.br>
References: <47568F24.1000708@auroraalimentos.com.br>	<4756C7EE.3020106@msapiro.net>
	<4757E166.9070405@auroraalimentos.com.br>
Message-ID: <47582433.4050003@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

M?rcio Luciano Donada wrote:
>
> Thanks for your help, I was checking the mm_cfg.py and not found the
> parameter SMTP_MAX_RCPTS. The problem is that I use postfix in the
> smtpd_recipient_limit = 10 to limit some users. How should I proceed,
> I can simply add the parameter in mm_cfg.py?


Yes. Just add

SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 10

to mm_cfg.py to override the Defaults.py setting of 500.


> I need to improve
> performance, because the e-mails so much time to be delivered. I am
> using the version 2.1.9. The parameter is into default.py the values
> is 500.


Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.004.htp>
for many more useful performance tips for Postfix/Mailman.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Dec  6 17:29:14 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 10:29:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delayed delivery
In-Reply-To: <4757F6B5.3040306@auroraalimentos.com.br>
References: <47568F24.1000708@auroraalimentos.com.br>
	<4756C7EE.3020106@msapiro.net>	<4757E166.9070405@auroraalimentos.com.br>
	<4757F6B5.3040306@auroraalimentos.com.br>
Message-ID: <p06240801c37dd2a3face@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/6/07, M?rcio Luciano Donada wrote:

>  I believe that the problem is the configuration of postfix, with the
>  parameter smtpd_recipient_limit = 15, the mailman sends initially for
>  the first 15 members of the list and seguinda, after some time for the
>  others. There were some to improve the performance without that I have
>  to change the smtpd_recipient_limit, because that would be difficult
>  to change because of some usu?riso I have on my network, it may
>  increase the time that the mailman is the delivery of e-mails, group
>  of 15 destinations.

Increasing this value isn't likely to help you 
very much.  This is the flip side of things like 
enabling VERP and full customization, see FAQ 
4.12 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.012.htp>.

Only for those sites where you have a very large 
number of recipients at the same address (e.g., 
hundreds of AOL users) will you see a benefit by 
having this number be higher.


Anyway, pay close attention to everything in that 
FAQ entry, because the original author went 
through a lot of math to explain how these things 
break down, and what kind of performance gain (or 
loss) you could expect by changing the value of 
things like SMTP_MAX_RCPTS.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mdonada at auroraalimentos.com.br  Thu Dec  6 17:40:54 2007
From: mdonada at auroraalimentos.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1rcio_Luciano_Donada?=)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 14:40:54 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delayed delivery
In-Reply-To: <47582433.4050003@msapiro.net>
References: <47568F24.1000708@auroraalimentos.com.br>	<4756C7EE.3020106@msapiro.net>
	<4757E166.9070405@auroraalimentos.com.br>
	<47582433.4050003@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <47582616.4070709@auroraalimentos.com.br>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
 
Mark Sapiro escreveu:
> M?rcio Luciano Donada wrote:
>> Thanks for your help, I was checking the mm_cfg.py and not found
>> the parameter SMTP_MAX_RCPTS. The problem is that I use postfix
>> in the smtpd_recipient_limit = 10 to limit some users. How should
>> I proceed, I can simply add the parameter in mm_cfg.py?
>
>
> Yes. Just add
>
> SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 10
>
> to mm_cfg.py to override the Defaults.py setting of 500.
>

Hi, Mark,
In the file mm_cfg.py just add
# mx:/etc/mailman# cat mm_cfg.py |grep SMTP
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 15

value SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 15 is just smtpd_recipient_limit = 15,

but Defaults.py valeu default is 500, not editing!!!

Some test in the next hour. Thx

- --
M?rcio Luciano Donada <mdonada at auroraalimentos dot com dot br>
Aurora Alimentos - Cooperativa Central Oeste Catarinense
Departamento de T.I.
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From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Dec  6 17:59:53 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 10:59:53 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delayed delivery
In-Reply-To: <47582616.4070709@auroraalimentos.com.br>
References: <47568F24.1000708@auroraalimentos.com.br>
	<4756C7EE.3020106@msapiro.net>	<4757E166.9070405@auroraalimentos.com.br>
	<47582433.4050003@msapiro.net>
	<47582616.4070709@auroraalimentos.com.br>
Message-ID: <p06240808c37ddac1e1a2@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/6/07, M?rcio Luciano Donada wrote:

>  In the file mm_cfg.py just add
>  # mx:/etc/mailman# cat mm_cfg.py |grep SMTP
>  SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 15
>
>  value SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 15 is just smtpd_recipient_limit = 15,
>
>  but Defaults.py valeu default is 500, not editing!!!

The values in mm_cfg.py (if any) over-ride those from Defaults.py.

Of course, there's still the internal limits in 
postfix, and there are many other performance 
related issues that you may also need to resolve.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec  6 18:10:36 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 09:10:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix won't recognise lists built by Mailman.
In-Reply-To: <0c5601c8381e$6414acb0$0202a8c0@newbuild>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712060910360609b9182645@msapiro>

Rod at freeserve wrote:
>
>Because my server is a pre-configured appliance I need to be careful with changing
>transport for the whole domain, but Postfix lets you change the transport for individual
>addresses, like this:
>
>list at mydomain.net    local:
>list-owner at mydomain.net  local:
>etc
>
>Putting these into the Postfix transport table got Postfix sending messages for these
>addresses to the Mailman commands. Of course it didn't work straight off, but a look at
>the maillog showed a very clear diagnostic from Mailman telling me that Postfix was trying
>to execute the commands with a gid of nobody, when I had it set up to use the Postfix gid.
>After reconfiguring Mailman with the right gid, the lists started to work and now my
>service is back on the air.
>
>A big thankyou to Mark for identifying the problem so clearly and quickly.
>
>I'll look at integrating more closely with Postfix and moving the aliases as suggested in
>a few days.


There are two things to be aware of.

If/when you configure Mailman/Postfix integration, you will have to reconfigure
Mailman again with a different --with-mail-gid because Postfix runs pipes as
the user who owns the alias file in which the pipe is found, and this will be
different from the current /etc/postfix/aliases.db.

The integration will not be complete in your case because the transport table
will also need updating, and Mailman doesn't know about that. It wouldn't be
too difficult for a Python Programmer to modify Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py to
maintain a transport table in the same way as it currently does the aliases
and virtual-mailman tables, and then add that table to Postfix transport_maps.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Thu Dec  6 19:58:20 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:58:20 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Eliminating Duplicate Postings
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net>'
	dated: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:36:16 -0800
Message-ID: <200712061858.lB6IwKKb006111@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

I wrote, in part:

>>I have not been in contact with the recipient to determine exactly what
>>he/she did.  I would like to prevent this from occurring in the future.

and Mark Sapiro replied:

It's hard to know what happened, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were
not some brain dead MTA doing this. I have seen messages returned to me
that apparently got to some MTA that then decided to deliver a copy
back to me apparently because I was in a To: or Cc: header of the
original.

Go to the archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file and find
the second message (or a copy of it if you have it) and look at the
chain of Received:  headers for clues.

All I can tell is that the original mail went to some address

     _________ at lsu.edu

at 7AM, and at 17:02 a mailer at LSU sent the mail back to Mailman.
The only way I am going to be able to tell what happened is to contact
the recipient at LSU and ask him what he might have done.

I did see two copies of the mail in the mbox file, as you suggested
I would.

>I am confused about the Postfix log entry. The X-BeenThere: header is
>generated by Mailman on outgoing mail and is checked by Mailman on
>incoming mail to avoid reposting the same message to the same list. A
>message to a list with an X-BeenThere: for that list will be discarded
>and logged as a discard in the vette log.
>
>Postfix should pay no attention to an X-BeenThere: header, but It may
>have detected a loop on some other criteria.

I do not know why the copy to the second Mailman list here was blocked
by Postfix.  If I have some spare time, I will research the Postfix
syslog message.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec  6 20:50:50 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:50:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] running External Archiver on
	background/foreground
In-Reply-To: <4757C0E1.6090602@st.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007120611505008286389f1ce@msapiro>

Mohamed CHAARI wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>> See
>> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-August/045994.html>.
>> 
>
>you mentioned, in the thread above (Aug 2005), that it would be better 
>to have a unique temporary file, to avoid conflict problems ...
>I've tried this, in mm_cfg.py, using unix timestamp
>
>PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = 'cat > /var/run/mailman/mail_tmp.$(date +%s); 
>/usr/local/bin/external_arch.pl %(listname)s &'
>
>but without success.
>is there a way to do it ? should I use Python functions to get unix 
>timestamp for current date ?


It looks to me as if you have inherited something from Jean-Philippe GIOLA and
it is now way more complicated than it needs to be.

Here are my observations on the above:

1) The name "mail_tmp.$(date +%s)" may still not be unique. What if two
messages arrive to be archived within the same second?

2)How does /usr/local/bin/external_arch.pl determine what file to read? And, if
it just picks one, it could be for the wrong list.

3)The reason the above doesn't work at all is mailman interpolates into the
PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER string from a dictionary in order to replace
%(listname)s with the actual listname, but this interpolation sees the %s date
format and replaces it with the entire dictionary. You have to double the % to
avoid this. E.g.

'cat > /var/run/mailman/mail_tmp.$(date +%%s); /usr/local/bin/external_arch.pl
%(listname)s &'

4) The normal way to do this is to not bother with the tempfile stuff at all,
but rather to just pipe the message to the external archiver as in

PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/usr/local/bin/external_arch.pl %(listname)s'

Then external_arch.pl can just read it's standard input for the message. If you
do it this way, you can't run it in the background because it won't get
standard input from the pipe, but the only reason it might need to run in the
background is if it does something which locks the list.

I think Jean-Philippe GIOLA was doing these wierd contortions because he wanted
both the normal pipermail archive and an external archive, but the normal way
to do this is to just do normal archiving in Mailman and subscribe an address
to the list to do the external archiving.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ivaldes at hal-pc.org  Thu Dec  6 22:17:55 2007
From: ivaldes at hal-pc.org (Ignacio Valdes)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 15:17:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Vexing withlist and possibly rewrite rule
	problem?
In-Reply-To: <redirect-461560566@mail.hal-pc.org>
References: <311679a80712042138w1bc0a50dp73ec99342d35129d@mail.gmail.com>
	<redirect-461560566@mail.hal-pc.org>
Message-ID: <311679a80712061317y21f813cftd1267d69be69b5b3@mail.gmail.com>

Okay, the magic incantation for httpd.conf at least for Fedora Core 6
httpd.conf file to use both Zope and Mailman at the same time with a
consistent URL for both Zope and Mailman seems to be:

   <VirtualHost IP_OF_SERVER_HERE:80>
   ServerName linuxmednews.com
   ServerAdmin webmaster at linuxmednews.com
   ProxyPass /mailman/ !
   ProxyPassReverse /mailman/ !
   ProxyPass /pipermail/ !
   ProxyPassReverse /pipermail/ !
   ProxyPass /
http://localhost:8080/VirtualHostBase/http/linuxmednews.com:80/linuxmednews/VirtualHostRoot/
   ProxyPassReverse /
http://localhost:8080/VirtualHostBase/http/linuxmednews.com:80/linuxmednews/VirtualHostRoot/
</VirtualHost>

   <VirtualHost IP_OF_SERVER_HERE:80>
   ServerName www.linuxmednews.com
#    ServerAlias *
# redirects everything
   Redirect permanent / http://linuxmednews.com/
  </VirtualHost>

On Dec 5, 2007 12:24 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
> Ignacio Valdes wrote:
> >
> >I am attempting to get the following URL to work:
> >http://www.linuxmednews.com/mailman/listinfo/linuxmednews-announce on
> >a server that is serving linuxmednews.com. If I use the withlist
> >fix_url command for linuxmednews-announce and put it to the
> >fully-qualified path that is desired as above, I cannot get to any of
> >the web interface pages. I get a resource not found message. If I use
> >withlist and set it to the numeric IP address, it halfway works in
> >that I can get to everything, but I cannot send an e-mail to
> >linuxmednews-announce at linuxmednews . com and have the list capture
> >it. If I send it to linuxmednews-announce at ip address no, it works.
> >What is desired is the fully-qualified URL above as well as the the
> >fully qualified e-mail address, not the IP. What might I try to do to
> >make this work? Thanks!
>
>
> If you can mail to the list and access the web interface by IP but not by name,
> it is a DNS issue.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From tyler at beloit.edu  Thu Dec  6 21:53:42 2007
From: tyler at beloit.edu (Tim Tyler)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 14:53:42 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list of members?
Message-ID: <20071206205342.057311B585DC@bcmail.beloit.edu>

   Mailman users,
   I have had some complaints from some of the faculty here that are 
owners of lists that they find the A through Z listing of members to 
be rather inconvenient at times.  While it is convenient when looking 
for a particular member, its often inconvenient when trying to over 
look the entire member list.  Is there a way within the GUI to view 
all members in one or a few pages rather than having to shift through 
26 letter worth of users?  Is there a way for them to generate the 
entire list to themselves?  Note: Most of them don't have access to a 
shell account for running the bin/list_member command.

   If not, any hope of this flexibility in future releases?


Tim Tyler
Network Engineer - Beloit College
tyler at beloit.edu 


From ivaldes at hal-pc.org  Thu Dec  6 22:21:40 2007
From: ivaldes at hal-pc.org (Ignacio Valdes)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 15:21:40 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Vexing withlist and possibly rewrite rule
	problem?
In-Reply-To: <311679a80712061317y21f813cftd1267d69be69b5b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <311679a80712042138w1bc0a50dp73ec99342d35129d@mail.gmail.com>
	<redirect-461560566@mail.hal-pc.org>
	<311679a80712061317y21f813cftd1267d69be69b5b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <311679a80712061321g5e802538nd7246425bbba88fe@mail.gmail.com>

So now, the final vexing question is that I have all this seemingly
working but I cannot seem to get the mailman list to receive any
e-mail. I have not setup an e-mail box for linuxmednews-announce at
linuxmednews.com yet because I don't know what the server should do
with email to that address so that mailman uses it. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

-- IV

On Dec 6, 2007 3:17 PM, Ignacio Valdes <ivaldes at hal-pc.org> wrote:
> Okay, the magic incantation for httpd.conf at least for Fedora Core 6
> httpd.conf file to use both Zope and Mailman at the same time with a
> consistent URL for both Zope and Mailman seems to be:
>
>    <VirtualHost IP_OF_SERVER_HERE:80>
>    ServerName linuxmednews.com
>    ServerAdmin webmaster at linuxmednews.com
>    ProxyPass /mailman/ !
>    ProxyPassReverse /mailman/ !
>    ProxyPass /pipermail/ !
>    ProxyPassReverse /pipermail/ !
>    ProxyPass /
> http://localhost:8080/VirtualHostBase/http/linuxmednews.com:80/linuxmednews/VirtualHostRoot/
>    ProxyPassReverse /
> http://localhost:8080/VirtualHostBase/http/linuxmednews.com:80/linuxmednews/VirtualHostRoot/
> </VirtualHost>
>
>    <VirtualHost IP_OF_SERVER_HERE:80>
>    ServerName www.linuxmednews.com
> #    ServerAlias *
> # redirects everything
>    Redirect permanent / http://linuxmednews.com/
>   </VirtualHost>
>
>
> On Dec 5, 2007 12:24 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> >
> > Ignacio Valdes wrote:
> > >
> > >I am attempting to get the following URL to work:
> > >http://www.linuxmednews.com/mailman/listinfo/linuxmednews-announce on
> > >a server that is serving linuxmednews.com. If I use the withlist
> > >fix_url command for linuxmednews-announce and put it to the
> > >fully-qualified path that is desired as above, I cannot get to any of
> > >the web interface pages. I get a resource not found message. If I use
> > >withlist and set it to the numeric IP address, it halfway works in
> > >that I can get to everything, but I cannot send an e-mail to
> > >linuxmednews-announce at linuxmednews . com and have the list capture
> > >it. If I send it to linuxmednews-announce at ip address no, it works.
> > >What is desired is the fully-qualified URL above as well as the the
> > >fully qualified e-mail address, not the IP. What might I try to do to
> > >make this work? Thanks!
> >
> >
> > If you can mail to the list and access the web interface by IP but not by name,
> > it is a DNS issue.
> >
> > --
> > Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> > San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> >
> >
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec  6 22:45:50 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 13:45:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Vexing withlist and possibly rewrite rule
	problem?
In-Reply-To: <311679a80712061321g5e802538nd7246425bbba88fe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020071206134550001537980c41@msapiro>

Ignacio Valdes wrote:

>So now, the final vexing question is that I have all this seemingly
>working but I cannot seem to get the mailman list to receive any
>e-mail. I have not setup an e-mail box for linuxmednews-announce at
>linuxmednews.com yet because I don't know what the server should do
>with email to that address so that mailman uses it. Any thoughts?


It should not deliver to a mailbox but should pipe the mail to
"|/path/to/mail/mailman post linuxmednews-announce".

How this is accomplished depends on the MTA. See
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/mail-server.html>.

If your MTA is Exim, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.019.htp>
and the docs linked from that as the installation manual is not
completely correct.

If you are generating aliases manually, you can run Mailman's
bin/genaliases to get a full list of required aliases.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec  6 22:58:26 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 13:58:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list of members?
In-Reply-To: <20071206205342.057311B585DC@bcmail.beloit.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602007120613582601876530ef35@msapiro>

Tim Tyler wrote:

>   I have had some complaints from some of the faculty here that are 
>owners of lists that they find the A through Z listing of members to 
>be rather inconvenient at times.  While it is convenient when looking 
>for a particular member, its often inconvenient when trying to over 
>look the entire member list.  Is there a way within the GUI to view 
>all members in one or a few pages rather than having to shift through 
>26 letter worth of users?  Is there a way for them to generate the 
>entire list to themselves?  Note: Most of them don't have access to a 
>shell account for running the bin/list_member command.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>.

Also note that in Mailman 2.1.10 (now in beta) list owners will be able
to set the maximum number of members per page which if set higher than
the total number of members, will put the entire membership on one
page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Dec  6 22:48:33 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:48:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Vexing withlist and possibly rewrite rule
 problem?
In-Reply-To: <311679a80712061321g5e802538nd7246425bbba88fe@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <311679a80712042138w1bc0a50dp73ec99342d35129d@mail.gmail.com>
	<redirect-461560566@mail.hal-pc.org>
	<311679a80712061317y21f813cftd1267d69be69b5b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<311679a80712061321g5e802538nd7246425bbba88fe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200712062138.lB6LbhM0016019@unreal.eroded.org>

Ignacio Valdes wrote:
>So now, the final vexing question is that I have all this seemingly
>working but I cannot seem to get the mailman list to receive any
>e-mail. I have not setup an e-mail box for linuxmednews-announce at
>linuxmednews.com yet because I don't know what the server should do
>with email to that address so that mailman uses it. Any thoughts?
>
>Thanks!
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

How you configure it all depends on exactly what MTA you are using. 
In any case, there is no mailbox setup for a normal installation. 
Each of the MTA programs does it differently but there will either be 
aliases or config files that specify how mail gets delivered to and 
from mailman.

Did you check the installation manual for instructions on how to set 
up mailman to work with your MTA?

You can find it at:

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/index.html

Specifically, you want to look at section 6 and follow the guide for 
whichever MTA you are using.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From dbuntin at gvtc.com  Fri Dec  7 05:46:19 2007
From: dbuntin at gvtc.com (David Buntin)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 22:46:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stale bounce info not purged for many members
Message-ID: <012b01c8388c$1c690280$0202a8c0@trout>

Today I had a nearby (and rare) MTA problem that caused a lot of emails to
bounce. Unfortunately, Mailman bounce processing removed almost everyone
from two lists.

These lists get very little traffic. A month or so ago I changed the
bounce_score_threshold and bounce_info_stale_after settings from 5.0 and 7
to 2.0 and 30. Even though many more days than 30 have passed since the last
bounce from almost all on the list, when the bounces happened today they
were all removed for excessive bounces.

I checked the bounce log and found entries like these:

   May 17 12:05:16 2007 (11340) listname: mail at addr current bounce score:
4.0
   ...
   Dec 06 09:00:17 2007 (13831) listname: mail at addr disabling due to bounce
score 4.0 >= 2.0

For the same member address, these are the relevant entries in the log.
Notice that the last bounce action was way back in May. No stale bounce
processing has occurred.

For what it's worth, I had a spam filter issue back in May that caused many
members to run up a bounce score of 4.0. I resolved the problem and haven't
had any bounces for most members since that time until today.

As a band-aid, I have re-enabled all the members and changed the bounce
settings back to 5.0 and 7. Even so, I'm afraid all members with a score of
4.0 back in May will be unsubscribed again on the next bounce.

Two questions:
1. Why isn't stale bounce processing resetting the scores for these members?
2. Is there a way I can force all the scores to be reset now?

Thanks,
David Buntin




From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Dec  7 07:23:07 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 22:23:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stale bounce info not purged for many members
In-Reply-To: <012b01c8388c$1c690280$0202a8c0@trout>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712062223070437a8e8b01c@msapiro>

David Buntin wrote:
>
>These lists get very little traffic. A month or so ago I changed the
>bounce_score_threshold and bounce_info_stale_after settings from 5.0 and 7
>to 2.0 and 30. Even though many more days than 30 have passed since the last
>bounce from almost all on the list, when the bounces happened today they
>were all removed for excessive bounces.


Because you lowered the threshold score. This is a known issue
mentioned several times on this list
<http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org++inurl%3Amailman++cron+disabled+stale+bounce>


>I checked the bounce log and found entries like these:
>
>   May 17 12:05:16 2007 (11340) listname: mail at addr current bounce score:
>4.0
>   ...
>   Dec 06 09:00:17 2007 (13831) listname: mail at addr disabling due to bounce
>score 4.0 >= 2.0


Are you sure you lowered the threshold a month ago? Has cron/disabled
not been running? The issue with cron/disabled disables that member
the first time cron/disabled runs after the threshold is lowered to <=
4.


>As a band-aid, I have re-enabled all the members and changed the bounce
>settings back to 5.0 and 7. Even so, I'm afraid all members with a score of
>4.0 back in May will be unsubscribed again on the next bounce.


They won't and you didn't have to raise the threshold. When you
reenabled delivery, any bounce info was removed.


>Two questions:
>1. Why isn't stale bounce processing resetting the scores for these members?


If a fresh bounce had arrived, it would have reset the stale score, but
cron/disabled which primarily sends notices and unsubscribes disabled
members after their warnings are exhausted also checks to see if any
enabled members exceed the threshold (in case the threshold is
lowered).

The issue is cron/disabled doesn't check to see if the bounce info is
fresh.


>2. Is there a way I can force all the scores to be reset now?


You already did by reenabling the members.

Note: I'm going to fix cron/disabled for the 2.1.10 final release.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dbuntin at gvtc.com  Fri Dec  7 08:00:04 2007
From: dbuntin at gvtc.com (David Buntin)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 01:00:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stale bounce info not purged for many members
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712062223070437a8e8b01c@msapiro>
References: <012b01c8388c$1c690280$0202a8c0@trout>
	<PC1760200712062223070437a8e8b01c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <013d01c8389e$cbc913c0$0202a8c0@trout>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>Because you lowered the threshold score. This is a known issue
>mentioned several times on this list
><http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org++inurl%3Amailman++cr
>on+disabled+stale+bounce>

This does seem to be the same problem.

>Are you sure you lowered the threshold a month ago? Has cron/disabled
>not been running? The issue with cron/disabled disables that member
>the first time cron/disabled runs after the threshold is lowered to <=
>4.

As best I can tell, cron/disabled has been running all this time. Issuing
crontab -l generates output including:

0 9 * * * /usr/local/bin/python -S /home/godsgroups/mailman/cron/disabled

Is there any way to know for sure if cron/disabled has been running?


>Note: I'm going to fix cron/disabled for the 2.1.10 final release.

Good to know. Thanks for that.


David Buntin


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Dec  7 08:19:18 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 23:19:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stale bounce info not purged for many members
In-Reply-To: <013d01c8389e$cbc913c0$0202a8c0@trout>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712062319180828a8e8b1ae@msapiro>

David Buntin wrote:
>
>As best I can tell, cron/disabled has been running all this time. Issuing
>crontab -l generates output including:
>
>0 9 * * * /usr/local/bin/python -S /home/godsgroups/mailman/cron/disabled
>
>Is there any way to know for sure if cron/disabled has been running?


If your crond writes a log (/var/log/cron ?), you can check that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rpyne at kinfolk.org  Fri Dec  7 08:32:54 2007
From: rpyne at kinfolk.org (Richard Pyne)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 00:32:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman with postfixadmin + postfix + mysql +
	dovecot + squirlmail
Message-ID: <475894B6.9442.8C0D16@rpyne.kinfolk.org>

I have set up a new mail server for a bunch of virtual domains using 
postfix, postfixadmin, dovecot, mysql, and squirelmail. Everything has 
been working fine for a couple of months.

Now I am trying to add Mailman to the mix.

I have Mailman installed and configured. Adding lists works and properly 
populates the virtual-mailman and aliases files as expected.

I have the maps specified in my postfix main.cf as:

alias_maps = hash:/var/mailman/data/aliases, hash:/etc/postfix/aliases
virtual_maps = hash:/var/mailman/data/virtual-mailman, 
mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf

Everything looks good until I try and send an email to a list. Everything 
bounces with a user unknown. It looks like all of the mailman virtual 
domains are being translated to the machines default domain.

For example:

<testlist at email-coop.com> (expanded from <testlist at freeutah.org>):
unknown user: "testlist at email-coop.com"

In this case, testlist at freeutha.org is the list on the virtual domain and 
email-coop.com is the real domain of the server.

Any help in getting Mailman to work in this setup will be greatly 
appreciated.

--Richard


From mohamed.chaari at st.com  Fri Dec  7 08:42:00 2007
From: mohamed.chaari at st.com (Mohamed CHAARI)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:42:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] running External Archiver on
	background/foreground
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007120611505008286389f1ce@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007120611505008286389f1ce@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4758F948.8040904@st.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mohamed CHAARI wrote:
> 
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> See
>>> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-August/045994.html>.
>>>
>> you mentioned, in the thread above (Aug 2005), that it would be better 
>> to have a unique temporary file, to avoid conflict problems ...
>> I've tried this, in mm_cfg.py, using unix timestamp
>>
>> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = 'cat > /var/run/mailman/mail_tmp.$(date +%s); 
>> /usr/local/bin/external_arch.pl %(listname)s &'
>>
>> but without success.
>> is there a way to do it ? should I use Python functions to get unix 
>> timestamp for current date ?
> 
> 
> It looks to me as if you have inherited something from Jean-Philippe GIOLA and
> it is now way more complicated than it needs to be.

yes

> 
> Here are my observations on the above:
> 
> 1) The name "mail_tmp.$(date +%s)" may still not be unique. What if two
> messages arrive to be archived within the same second?
> 
> 2)How does /usr/local/bin/external_arch.pl determine what file to read? And, if
> it just picks one, it could be for the wrong list.
> 
> 3)The reason the above doesn't work at all is mailman interpolates into the
> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER string from a dictionary in order to replace
> %(listname)s with the actual listname, but this interpolation sees the %s date
> format and replaces it with the entire dictionary. You have to double the % to
> avoid this. E.g.
> 
> 'cat > /var/run/mailman/mail_tmp.$(date +%%s); /usr/local/bin/external_arch.pl
> %(listname)s &'

ok

> 
> 4) The normal way to do this is to not bother with the tempfile stuff at all,
> but rather to just pipe the message to the external archiver as in
> 
> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/usr/local/bin/external_arch.pl %(listname)s'
> 
> Then external_arch.pl can just read it's standard input for the message. If you
> do it this way, you can't run it in the background because it won't get
> standard input from the pipe, but the only reason it might need to run in the
> background is if it does something which locks the list.

which is our case, because of the call to 'arch'

> 
> I think Jean-Philippe GIOLA was doing these wierd contortions because he wanted
> both the normal pipermail archive and an external archive,

yes this is exactly our requirement

> but the normal way
> to do this is to just do normal archiving in Mailman and subscribe an address
> to the list to do the external archiving.
> 

I didn't understand well this solution. can you please explain it, how 
can a subscriber/address do the external archiving ?


Thank you in advance


-- 
---
--Mohamed CHAARI   (mailto : mohamed.chaari at st.com)

From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in  Fri Dec  7 09:11:30 2007
From: vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in (Vinita Aggarwal)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:41:30 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <4758F948.8040904@st.com>
Message-ID: <00d001c838a8$c804d440$3403010a@undp.org.in>

Hi

I am not very sound in mailman configuration.

I have a list in which anyone can post. "Hold the positing from non
members".

Now, I am getting everyday about 100s of spam emails in that list. Please
advise how to deal with this?


Regards,
Vinita Aggarwal

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+vinita.aggarwal=un.org.in at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+vinita.aggarwal=un.org.in at python.org] On
Behalf Of Mohamed CHAARI
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 1:12 PM
To: Mark Sapiro
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] running External Archiver on
background/foreground

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mohamed CHAARI wrote:
> 
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> See
>>>
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-August/045994.html>.
>>>
>> you mentioned, in the thread above (Aug 2005), that it would be better 
>> to have a unique temporary file, to avoid conflict problems ...
>> I've tried this, in mm_cfg.py, using unix timestamp
>>
>> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = 'cat > /var/run/mailman/mail_tmp.$(date +%s); 
>> /usr/local/bin/external_arch.pl %(listname)s &'
>>
>> but without success.
>> is there a way to do it ? should I use Python functions to get unix 
>> timestamp for current date ?
> 
> 
> It looks to me as if you have inherited something from Jean-Philippe GIOLA
and
> it is now way more complicated than it needs to be.

yes

> 
> Here are my observations on the above:
> 
> 1) The name "mail_tmp.$(date +%s)" may still not be unique. What if two
> messages arrive to be archived within the same second?
> 
> 2)How does /usr/local/bin/external_arch.pl determine what file to read?
And, if
> it just picks one, it could be for the wrong list.
> 
> 3)The reason the above doesn't work at all is mailman interpolates into
the
> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER string from a dictionary in order to replace
> %(listname)s with the actual listname, but this interpolation sees the %s
date
> format and replaces it with the entire dictionary. You have to double the
% to
> avoid this. E.g.
> 
> 'cat > /var/run/mailman/mail_tmp.$(date +%%s);
/usr/local/bin/external_arch.pl
> %(listname)s &'

ok

> 
> 4) The normal way to do this is to not bother with the tempfile stuff at
all,
> but rather to just pipe the message to the external archiver as in
> 
> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/usr/local/bin/external_arch.pl %(listname)s'
> 
> Then external_arch.pl can just read it's standard input for the message.
If you
> do it this way, you can't run it in the background because it won't get
> standard input from the pipe, but the only reason it might need to run in
the
> background is if it does something which locks the list.

which is our case, because of the call to 'arch'

> 
> I think Jean-Philippe GIOLA was doing these wierd contortions because he
wanted
> both the normal pipermail archive and an external archive,

yes this is exactly our requirement

> but the normal way
> to do this is to just do normal archiving in Mailman and subscribe an
address
> to the list to do the external archiving.
> 

I didn't understand well this solution. can you please explain it, how 
can a subscriber/address do the external archiving ?


Thank you in advance


-- 
---
--Mohamed CHAARI   (mailto : mohamed.chaari at st.com)
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/vinita.aggarwal%40un.or
g.in

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Dec  7 09:20:36 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 00:20:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] running External Archiver on
	background/foreground
In-Reply-To: <4758F948.8040904@st.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020071207002036062537980e95@msapiro>

Mohamed CHAARI wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> but the normal way
>> to do this is to just do normal archiving in Mailman and subscribe an address
>> to the list to do the external archiving.
>> 
>
>I didn't understand well this solution. can you please explain it, how 
>can a subscriber/address do the external archiving ?


You subscribe a user in your local domain to the list. This is a real
user account, but not one normally used for mail. This user has a
.forward file which pipes incoming mail to the external archiver or to
a script which filters out non-list spam and sends the rest to the
external archiver. Or the mail is just delivered to a local mailbox
and some cron runs frequently to remove the mail from the local
mailbox, filter it and send the good list mail to the external
archiver.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Dec  7 09:28:40 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 00:28:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <00d001c838a8$c804d440$3403010a@undp.org.in>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712070028400921d9792941@msapiro>

Vinita Aggarwal wrote:
>
>I have a list in which anyone can post. "Hold the positing from non
>members".
>
>Now, I am getting everyday about 100s of spam emails in that list. Please
>advise how to deal with this?


It is best to start a new topic on a list by creating a new message,
not by replying to someone else's post. When you reply to an unrelated
post, your post gets threaded in the other topic in the archive and it
makes the archive hard to read.


Anyway, the answer to your question is install better spam filtering in
your MTA. The best thing is to identify spam at incoming SMTP time and
don't accept it in the first place. Next best is to accept it but
silently discard it in the MTA - do not bounce it to the claimed
sender as this is almost certainly forged.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From zbigniew at szalbot.homedns.org  Fri Dec  7 10:32:29 2007
From: zbigniew at szalbot.homedns.org (zbigniew szalbot)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 10:32:29 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] options to protect a mailing list
Message-ID: <4759132D.8090406@szalbot.homedns.org>

Hello,

I have a newsletter type mailing list. Messages from a specific address 
are automatically distributed to the list members. Messages from other 
addresses are discarded. Since the messages are sent at night, what are 
my options to automatically send them without risking that someone else 
will forge the FROM address and send spam or whatever to the list? How 
do you handle that? Human moderation is not possible because the 
messages should be sent around 3 a.m. at which time there's no one 
around to moderate.

Thank you!

Zbigniew Szalbot

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Dec  7 10:37:07 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 01:37:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman with postfixadmin + postfix + mysql
	+dovecot + squirlmail
In-Reply-To: <475894B6.9442.8C0D16@rpyne.kinfolk.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712070137070437a8e8b01c@msapiro>

Richard Pyne wrote:
>
>Everything looks good until I try and send an email to a list. Everything 
>bounces with a user unknown. It looks like all of the mailman virtual 
>domains are being translated to the machines default domain.
>
>For example:
>
><testlist at email-coop.com> (expanded from <testlist at freeutah.org>):
>unknown user: "testlist at email-coop.com"
>
>In this case, testlist at freeutha.org is the list on the virtual domain and 
>email-coop.com is the real domain of the server.


What does your maillog (Postfix et al) say about this message?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Dec  7 16:28:59 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 07:28:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] options to protect a mailing list
In-Reply-To: <4759132D.8090406@szalbot.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712070728590500ccf22c2f@msapiro>

zbigniew szalbot wrote:
>
>I have a newsletter type mailing list. Messages from a specific address 
>are automatically distributed to the list members. Messages from other 
>addresses are discarded. Since the messages are sent at night, what are 
>my options to automatically send them without risking that someone else 
>will forge the FROM address and send spam or whatever to the list? How 
>do you handle that? Human moderation is not possible because the 
>messages should be sent around 3 a.m. at which time there's no one 
>around to moderate.


Moderate everyone and post with an Approved: header. The header is

Approved: password

where password is the list admin or moderator password. Ideally, this
is an actual header, but it can also be the first non-blank line of
the first (or only) text/plain part of the body. I.e., if the message
is pure HTML, it can't be in the body, but if the message is
multipart/alternative it can.

The Approved header or body line is removed from the message. The
removal from the fancy alternative(s) of a multipart/alternative
message is not 100% reliable, so this works best with a true header.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From wheakory at isu.edu  Fri Dec  7 19:03:09 2007
From: wheakory at isu.edu (Kory Wheatley)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 11:03:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman error when sending a message
Message-ID: <47598ADD.10309@isu.edu>

I received this below error on one of our lists.  I'm running Mailman 
2.1.6.  Do you know the cause of the below python error.

Dec 07 09:07:59 2007 (19091) SHUNTING: 
1197043677.7637711+7717478d0c42f9abb211298207f5ffa813512bae
Dec 07 09:53:22 2007 (19091) Uncaught runner exception: unpack list of 
wrong size
Dec 07 09:53:22 2007 (19091) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in 
_dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in 
_dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 92, in process
    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 133, in 
send_digests
    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 315, in 
send_i18n_digests
    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 266, in process
    url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 411, in 
save_attachment
    filename = Utils.oneline(msg.get_filename(''), lcset)
  File "/home/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 724, in get_filename
    filename = self.get_param('filename', missing, 'content-disposition')
  File "/home/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 607, in get_param
    for k, v in self._get_params_preserve(failobj, header):
  File "/home/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 554, in 
_get_params_preserve
    params = Utils.decode_params(params)
  File "/home/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 337, in decode_params
    charset, language, value = decode_rfc2231(EMPTYSTRING.join(value))
  File "/home/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 284, in decode_rfc2231
    charset, language, s = parts
ValueError: unpack list of wrong size

Dec 07 09:53:22 2007 (19091) SHUNTING: 
1197046400.9411609+1cf11358e8862eae84391721d8fe3f1fae53d614

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Dec  7 19:22:43 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 10:22:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman error when sending a message
In-Reply-To: <47598ADD.10309@isu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602007120710224300789a382659@msapiro>

Kory Wheatley wrote:

>I received this below error on one of our lists.  I'm running Mailman 
>2.1.6.  Do you know the cause of the below python error.
>
>Dec 07 09:07:59 2007 (19091) SHUNTING: 
>1197043677.7637711+7717478d0c42f9abb211298207f5ffa813512bae
>Dec 07 09:53:22 2007 (19091) Uncaught runner exception: unpack list of 
>wrong size
>Dec 07 09:53:22 2007 (19091) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in 
>_dispose
>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in 
>_dopipeline
>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 92, in process
>    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 133, in 
>send_digests
>    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 315, in 
>send_i18n_digests
>    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
>  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 266, in process
>    url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir)
>  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 411, in 
>save_attachment
>    filename = Utils.oneline(msg.get_filename(''), lcset)
>  File "/home/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 724, in get_filename
>    filename = self.get_param('filename', missing, 'content-disposition')
>  File "/home/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 607, in get_param
>    for k, v in self._get_params_preserve(failobj, header):
>  File "/home/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 554, in 
>_get_params_preserve
>    params = Utils.decode_params(params)
>  File "/home/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 337, in decode_params
>    charset, language, value = decode_rfc2231(EMPTYSTRING.join(value))
>  File "/home/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 284, in decode_rfc2231
>    charset, language, s = parts
>ValueError: unpack list of wrong size
>
>Dec 07 09:53:22 2007 (19091) SHUNTING: 
>1197046400.9411609+1cf11358e8862eae84391721d8fe3f1fae53d614


This problem has been 'partially avoided' since Mailman 2.1.7 and fixed
since 2.1.9. See the thread that starts at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-August/058021.html>
for a fairly complete description of the issue and see the post at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-July/057768.html>
for information on what how to edit this list's digest.mbox file to
clear this problem (until the next time). After editing the
digest.mbox, you can run bin/unshunt to finish processing the shunted
messages, but before doing this, it is a good idea to run
bin/show_qfiles on qfile/shunt/* and delete any messages you don't
want.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Dec  7 20:35:56 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:35:56 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <00d001c838a8$c804d440$3403010a@undp.org.in>
References: <00d001c838a8$c804d440$3403010a@undp.org.in>
Message-ID: <p06240800c37f50eb9463@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/7/07, Vinita Aggarwal wrote:

>  Now, I am getting everyday about 100s of spam emails in that list. Please
>  advise how to deal with this?

Mailman doesn't have great tools for this.  Instead, you should 
configure your mail server to reject or discard the spam messages 
before they ever get to Mailman.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Dec  7 20:37:47 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:37:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] options to protect a mailing list
In-Reply-To: <4759132D.8090406@szalbot.homedns.org>
References: <4759132D.8090406@szalbot.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <p06240801c37f5144a945@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/7/07, zbigniew szalbot wrote:

>  I have a newsletter type mailing list. Messages from a specific address
>  are automatically distributed to the list members. Messages from other
>  addresses are discarded. Since the messages are sent at night, what are
>  my options to automatically send them without risking that someone else
>  will forge the FROM address and send spam or whatever to the list? How
>  do you handle that? Human moderation is not possible because the
>  messages should be sent around 3 a.m. at which time there's no one
>  around to moderate.

Search the FAQ Wizard for "Approved:".

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From eellery at rapix.com.br  Fri Dec  7 20:01:21 2007
From: eellery at rapix.com.br (Eduardo Ellery)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 16:01:21 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to have subscribers in msg_footer?
Message-ID: <024801c83903$8e5ca320$3a100cc9@UGC.TVSHOW.COM.BR>

Hi Everyone,

 

I searched a l ot but none found about listing in msg_footer list
subscribers.

 

We run a few lists with less than 20 subscribers and everyone need to know
who is on the list.

 

 

Atenciosamente,

Eduardo Ellery
Coordenador de Redes
Rapix Tecnologia e Internet  <http://www.rapix.com.br/> www.rapix.com.br
TV Show Brasil SA  <http://www.tvshowbrasil.com.br/> www.tvshowbrasil.com.br
Liberty Global, Inc Companies  <http://www.lgi.com/> www.lgi.com

 


From eellery at rapix.com.br  Fri Dec  7 22:04:00 2007
From: eellery at rapix.com.br (Eduardo Ellery)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 18:04:00 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to have subscribers in msg_footer?
Message-ID: <038101c83914$b0681740$3a100cc9@UGC.TVSHOW.COM.BR>

Hi Everyone,

I searched a l ot but none found about listing in msg_footer list
subscribers.

We run a few lists with less than 20 subscribers and everyone need to know
who is on the list.


Atenciosamente,

Eduardo Ellery
Coordenador de Redes
Rapix Tecnologia e Internet www.rapix.com.br
TV Show Brasil SA www.tvshowbrasil.com.br
Liberty Global, Inc Companies www.lgi.com



From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Fri Dec  7 22:12:38 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 16:12:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-member posters - receive copy of their email as
	confirmation?
Message-ID: <4759B746.8080906@Media-Brokers.com>

Hello again,

I really appreciate the fast and accurate responses to questions here...

This question has to do with the

Privacy Options > Sender Filters > accept_these_non-members

Is there a way to have Mailman send a copy (BCC would be preferred) of 
there message back to them, for verification that their message was sent?

We have two lists that we use that outside vendors post to (they are the 
'non-member'), where the members are our Sales Reps. I'd like for the 
non-members to get a BCC (preferred, CC would be OK) of their message 
when they post.

If this can't currently be done - what are the chances of an option to 
do so as an enhancement?

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Dec  7 22:15:23 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 15:15:23 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to have subscribers in
 msg_footer?
In-Reply-To: <038101c83914$b0681740$3a100cc9@UGC.TVSHOW.COM.BR>
References: <038101c83914$b0681740$3a100cc9@UGC.TVSHOW.COM.BR>
Message-ID: <p06240801c37f6807ff26@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/7/07, Eduardo Ellery wrote:

>  We run a few lists with less than 20 subscribers and everyone need to know
>  who is on the list.

So far as I know, you cannot achieve this without making changes to 
the source code.

I didn't respond to your message the first time you posted it to the 
list (about two hours ago), because I didn't have a good answer for 
you.  I am responding now in the hopes that you will wait for answers 
from others who might have better answers, instead of just sending 
another copy of your message.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Dec  7 22:16:13 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:16:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to have subscribers in
	msg_footer?
In-Reply-To: <024801c83903$8e5ca320$3a100cc9@UGC.TVSHOW.COM.BR>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712071316130890b43a6307@msapiro>

Eduardo Ellery wrote:
>
>We run a few lists with less than 20 subscribers and everyone need to know
>who is on the list.


No, you can't list all the subscribers in the footer, but you could
include something like

Membership List: %(web_page_url)sroster/$(list_name)s

in the footer to provide a link to the roster page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Dec  7 22:21:21 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 15:21:21 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-member posters - receive copy of their
 email as confirmation?
In-Reply-To: <4759B746.8080906@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <4759B746.8080906@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c37f689d2251@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/7/07, Charles Marcus wrote:

>  This question has to do with the
>
>  Privacy Options > Sender Filters > accept_these_non-members
>
>  Is there a way to have Mailman send a copy (BCC would be preferred) of
>  there message back to them, for verification that their message was sent?

If they were members, they'd see copies of their own posts by 
default, unless they chose to select the option to avoid that.

As non-members, I don't know of any way for Mailman to notify them 
that their message was sent out.  At least, not without making 
changes to the source code.

>  If this can't currently be done - what are the chances of an option to
>  do so as an enhancement?

Mailman is an open-source project.  As such, the odds would be 
greatly improved if you were to have such a feature developed by 
someone and then posted as a patch to the appropriate place on the 
Mailman pages at SourceForge.

Otherwise, you could post an RFE (Request for Feature Enhancement) in 
a slightly different part of the Mailman pages at SourceForge, and 
hope that one of the all-volunteer core programmers might ultimately 
get around to dealing with this issue at some point in the 
not-to-distant future.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Dec  7 22:33:22 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:33:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-member posters - receive copy of their
	email asconfirmation?
In-Reply-To: <4759B746.8080906@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712071333220828d8a28652@msapiro>

Charles Marcus wrote:
>
>We have two lists that we use that outside vendors post to (they are the 
>'non-member'), where the members are our Sales Reps. I'd like for the 
>non-members to get a BCC (preferred, CC would be OK) of their message 
>when they post.


I assume that you don't want these people to be able to see other
people's posts.

Here's what I would do.

Make them list members with delivery disabled, password reminders off
and a random password.

Set them to receive acknowledgement of posts.

Then they won't receive any posts from the list, but they will be able
to post and will receive acknowledgement from the list that their
posts were accepted.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Fri Dec  7 22:46:33 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 16:46:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-member posters - receive copy of their
 email as confirmation?
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c37f689d2251@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <4759B746.8080906@Media-Brokers.com>
	<p06240802c37f689d2251@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <4759BF39.9020106@Media-Brokers.com>

On 12/7/2007, Brad Knowles (brad at shub-internet.org) wrote:

>> This question has to do with the
>> 
>> Privacy Options > Sender Filters > accept_these_non-members
>>
>> Is there a way to have Mailman send a copy (BCC would be preferred)
>> of there message back to them, for verification that their message 
>> was sent?

> If they were members, they'd see copies of their own posts by 
> default, unless they chose to select the option to avoid that. 

Yeah, but the problem is, I don't want them to be members...

Or, more precisely, I don't want them to get copies of ALL messages sent 
to the list, just their own...

Or, even better, just a confirmation that their message was received. 
Something like the rejection notice, but instead an 'acknowledgment' notice.

Oh well, looks like it can't currently be done, no worries, it isn't 
mission critical...

Thanks for the response, even if it wasn't what I wanted to hear. :)

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Fri Dec  7 23:01:38 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 17:01:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-member posters - receive copy of
 their	email as confirmation?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712071333220828d8a28652@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200712071333220828d8a28652@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4759C2C2.60806@Media-Brokers.com>

Mark Sapiro, on 12/7/2007 4:33 PM, said the following:
> Charles Marcus wrote:
>> We have two lists that we use that outside vendors post to (they are the 
>> 'non-member'), where the members are our Sales Reps. I'd like for the 
>> non-members to get a BCC (preferred, CC would be OK) of their message 
>> when they post.

> I assume that you don't want these people to be able to see other
> people's posts.
> 
> Here's what I would do.
> 
> Make them list members with delivery disabled, password reminders off
> and a random password.
> 
> Set them to receive acknowledgement of posts.
> 
> Then they won't receive any posts from the list, but they will be able
> to post and will receive acknowledgement from the list that their
> posts were accepted.

Hey! Hmmmmm, let me think about this... Yes, I think this will work! 
Oh... wait...

How would this work in conjunction with the new functionality provided 
by this patch:

 > I think you mean
 > http://tinyurl.com/3xxdhk
 > This patch allows specifying the name of a list (say list2) in list1's
 > accept_these_nonmembers so that members of list2 can post to list1
 > even if they aren't members of list1.

Would I be able to set up a 'vendors' list, that just acts as a 
container for all of the vendors, set each members options as you 
described above, then put this list name in the other lists 
'accept_these_nonmembers' field, and have it 'just work'?

Remember, the 'vendors' list will not be a functioning list - the 
members of that list will be posting to one of two other lists, each of 
which expands to about 4 lists total internally - my lists are nested, 
by the way - some contain only other lists as members, some contain a 
mix of lists and individual members.

Thanks for the suggestion! I hope it will work as you described...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Dec  7 23:21:24 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 14:21:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-member posters - receive copy oftheir	email
	as confirmation?
In-Reply-To: <4759C2C2.60806@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712071421240703e4ea7137@msapiro>

Charles Marcus wrote:

>Mark Sapiro, on 12/7/2007 4:33 PM, said the following:
>> 
>> Here's what I would do.
>> 
>> Make them list members with delivery disabled, password reminders off
>> and a random password.
>> 
>> Set them to receive acknowledgement of posts.
>> 
>> Then they won't receive any posts from the list, but they will be able
>> to post and will receive acknowledgement from the list that their
>> posts were accepted.
>
>Hey! Hmmmmm, let me think about this... Yes, I think this will work! 
>Oh... wait...
>
>How would this work in conjunction with the new functionality provided 
>by this patch:
>
> > I think you mean
> > http://tinyurl.com/3xxdhk
> > This patch allows specifying the name of a list (say list2) in list1's
> > accept_these_nonmembers so that members of list2 can post to list1
> > even if they aren't members of list1.
>
>Would I be able to set up a 'vendors' list, that just acts as a 
>container for all of the vendors, set each members options as you 
>described above, then put this list name in the other lists 
>'accept_these_nonmembers' field, and have it 'just work'?


No. That won't work. For the above to work, the vendors have to
actually be members of the list they are posting to.

I also just realized that a 'vendor' who is a member of a list can
request a password reminder, and can thus get her/his password and
change options.


>Remember, the 'vendors' list will not be a functioning list - the 
>members of that list will be posting to one of two other lists, each of 
>which expands to about 4 lists total internally - my lists are nested, 
>by the way - some contain only other lists as members, some contain a 
>mix of lists and individual members.


Since you are already using 'umbrella' lists, what if the vendor list
were a super-umbrella. Maybe this requires multiple vendor lists in
your case, but it's a thought.

Also, the new sibling list feature in Mailman 2.1.10 might be useful in
this regard. The vendor list could have the 1 or 2 umbrella's in its
'regular_include_lists'. Then posts addressed to the vendor list will
go to the members of the include lists too. It's kind of the other
side of the accept_these_nonmembers coin. You can think of it as a
better way to do umbrella lists, but you still have the issue that a
vender list membor can probably obtain his/her password and enable
delivery, but at least he/she only gets vendor list posts (that still
may be bad).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Fri Dec  7 23:04:44 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 17:04:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What if address in 'accept_these_nonmembers' is
	actually a member
Message-ID: <4759C37C.4050606@Media-Brokers.com>

Would this cause a problem? I don't see why it would, and it hasn't 
seemed to, but I was just curious...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Dec  7 23:54:29 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 14:54:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What if address in 'accept_these_nonmembers'
	isactually a member
In-Reply-To: <4759C37C.4050606@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020071207145429060977eaf0de@msapiro>

Subject: [Mailman-Users] What if address in 'accept_these_nonmembers'
is actually a member

Charles Marcus wrote:

>Would this cause a problem? I don't see why it would, and it hasn't 
>seemed to, but I was just curious...


It has no effect. Posts from this address are processed using the
member's moderation flag and other options. *_these_nonmembers aren't
looked at in this case.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ken at law.duke.edu  Fri Dec  7 23:37:41 2007
From: ken at law.duke.edu (Kenneth Hirsh)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 17:37:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error setting up web interface
Message-ID: <475984E5.66C5.0084.0@law.duke.edu>

All,
I had to move my Mailman installation to another server.  The mailing lists are functioning.  I am having trouble with bringing up the web management interface.  The brwoser reportes a bug in Mailman.  Here is the entry from the Apache error log.  Can anyone give me some suggestions?
Ken Hirsh
 
Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----]
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] [----- Traceback ------]
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] Traceback (most recent call last):
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16]   File "/array/mailman/scripts/driver", line 82, in run_main
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16]     immediate=1)
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16]   File "/array/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 52, in __init__
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16]     Logger.__init__(self, category, nofail, immediate)
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16]   File "/array/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 50, in __init__
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16]     self.__get_f()
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16]   File "/array/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 68, in __get_f
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16]     1)
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16]   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/codecs.py", line 663, in open
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16]     file = __builtin__.open(filename, mode, buffering)
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/array/mailman/logs/error'
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] [----- Python Information -----]
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] sys.version     = 2.4.2 (#1, Jun 22 2007, 12:35:09) 
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] [GCC 4.1.2 20070115 (prerelease) (SUSE Linux)]
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] sys.executable  = /usr/bin/python
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] sys.prefix      = /usr
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] sys.exec_prefix = /usr
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] sys.path        = /usr
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] sys.platform    = linux2
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] [----- Environment Variables -----]
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tSERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.2.6 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.2.6  PHP/5.2.5
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tSCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/listinfo
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tHTTP_IF_MODIFIED_SINCE: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 23:00:00 GMT
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tSERVER_SIGNATURE: 
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tREQUEST_METHOD: GET
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tPATH_INFO: /envlit
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tSERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tQUERY_STRING: 
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tHTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET: windows-1252;q=1.0, utf-8;q=1.0, utf-16;q=1.0, iso-8859-1;q=0.6, *;q=0.1
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tHTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; fr; rv:1.8.1) VoilaBot BETA 1.2 (http://www.voila.com/)
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tHTTP_CONNECTION: close
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tSERVER_NAME: mailman.law.duke.edu
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tREMOTE_ADDR: 81.52.143.16
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tPATH_TRANSLATED: /array/www/html/envlit
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tSERVER_PORT: 80
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tSERVER_ADDR: 152.3.208.150
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tDOCUMENT_ROOT: /array/www/html
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tPYTHONPATH: /array/mailman
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tSCRIPT_FILENAME: /array/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tSERVER_ADMIN: you at example.com 
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tHTTP_HOST: mailman.law.duke.edu
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tREQUEST_URI: /mailman/listinfo/envlit
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tHTTP_ACCEPT: */*
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tGATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tREMOTE_PORT: 50347
[Fri Dec 07 16:11:17 2007] [error] [client 81.52.143.16] \tHTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: fr, en, *

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Dec  8 00:14:03 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 15:14:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error setting up web interface
In-Reply-To: <475984E5.66C5.0084.0@law.duke.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020071207151403014077eaeeef@msapiro>

Kenneth Hirsh wrote:
>
>I had to move my Mailman installation to another server.  The mailing lists are functioning.  I am having trouble with bringing up the web management interface.  The brwoser reportes a bug in Mailman.  Here is the entry from the Apache error log.  Can anyone give me some suggestions?


Mailman is unable to write its own error log. Thus, it encounters some
error (we don't yet know what) and attempts to log it and then
encounters this error which gets dumped to stderr and ends up in
apache's log.

First, run Mailman's bin/check_perms -f as root or the mailman user to
fix the permission problems (you may need to run it more that once
until it runs clean - ignore the warning about o+x on
archives/private).

Then when you encounter the web interface error again, it should be
logged in Mailman's error log and we can use that information to
figure it out.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cyndi at tikvah.com  Sat Dec  8 00:17:10 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 15:17:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c37f50eb9463@[192.168.1.101]> (message from Brad
	Knowles on Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:35:56 -0600)
References: <00d001c838a8$c804d440$3403010a@undp.org.in>
	<p06240800c37f50eb9463@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <200712072317.lB7NHAWI010646@a.mail.sonic.net>

   Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:35:56 -0600
   From: Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>

   On 12/7/07, Vinita Aggarwal wrote:
   >  Now, I am getting everyday about 100s of spam emails in that list. Please
   >  advise how to deal with this?

   Mailman doesn't have great tools for this.  Instead, you should 
   configure your mail server to reject or discard the spam messages 
   before they ever get to Mailman.

Any ideas how to do this when your ISP is hosting Mailman?  

As soon as they finish mass subscribing my address list, my domain name
list address will be active with MM and it gets HUNDREDS of spams a day.
Since I can't run them through SpamAssasin (that my ISP runs) (with
majordomo, msgs sent for moderation have MD headers so you can't check for
false positives without opening each msg), I use procmail to get rid of the
worst of the spam.

With the migration, I won't be able to use procmail anymore.  And SA won't
be an option either.  I'll be slowly unmoderating most of my list members
but many will have to be on moderation for life.  And their posts will be
mixed in with all the spam on the web interface.

I can ban the spammer's addresses through the interface, and even put some
key spam phrases into the interface, but it won't help much.

I've asked in my ISP's usenet group for Mailman and got no answers.

Cyndi


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Dec  8 07:27:11 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 00:27:11 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <200712072317.lB7NHAWI010646@a.mail.sonic.net>
References: <00d001c838a8$c804d440$3403010a@undp.org.in>
	<p06240800c37f50eb9463@[192.168.1.101]>
	<200712072317.lB7NHAWI010646@a.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <p06240800c37fe8f035df@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/7/07, Cyndi Norwitz wrote:

>    >  Now, I am getting everyday about 100s of spam emails in that 
>list. Please
>    >  advise how to deal with this?
>
>    Mailman doesn't have great tools for this.  Instead, you should
>    configure your mail server to reject or discard the spam messages
>    before they ever get to Mailman.
>
>  Any ideas how to do this when your ISP is hosting Mailman?

That would be the responsibility of your ISP.  If they're not doing 
their job, then maybe you might want to find a different provider of 
this particular service.

There are multiple different providers of service for Mailman and 
Mailman-hosted mailing lists linked from FAQ 1.17 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp>. 
I believe that at least one of those is actually fairly active on the 
mailman-users mailing list, although I don't have any personal 
experience with their particular service.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From cyndi at tikvah.com  Sat Dec  8 08:04:28 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 23:04:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c37fe8f035df@[192.168.1.101]> (message from Brad
	Knowles on Sat, 8 Dec 2007 00:27:11 -0600)
References: <00d001c838a8$c804d440$3403010a@undp.org.in>
	<p06240800c37f50eb9463@[192.168.1.101]>
	<200712072317.lB7NHAWI010646@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<p06240800c37fe8f035df@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <200712080704.lB874SnD002672@a.mail.sonic.net>

   Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 00:27:11 -0600
   From: Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>

   >    Mailman doesn't have great tools for this.  Instead, you should
   >    configure your mail server to reject or discard the spam messages
   >    before they ever get to Mailman.
   >
   >  Any ideas how to do this when your ISP is hosting Mailman?

   That would be the responsibility of your ISP.  If they're not doing 
   their job, then maybe you might want to find a different provider of 
   this particular service.

Well, I'm happy with my ISP and have no plans to move *again*.  But I will
ask them again if they can do it.  The reply I got from them was: "In the
future Sonic.net could integrate SpamAssassin into Mailman but that's not
currently on anyones plate."

Thanks,
Cyndi


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Dec  8 08:53:21 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 01:53:21 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <200712080704.lB874SnD002672@a.mail.sonic.net>
References: <00d001c838a8$c804d440$3403010a@undp.org.in>
	<p06240800c37f50eb9463@[192.168.1.101]>
	<200712072317.lB7NHAWI010646@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<p06240800c37fe8f035df@[192.168.1.101]>
	<200712080704.lB874SnD002672@a.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <E271B82E-A5E7-4059-8DED-E7164352CE64@shub-internet.org>

I was talking about moving just your mailing lists, not all your ISP  
services. Of course you could link those two if you want, but there  
are plenty of mailing list only providers that you could at least  
check out.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-Internet.org>

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 8, 2007, at 1:04 AM, Cyndi Norwitz <cyndi at tikvah.com> wrote:

>   Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 00:27:11 -0600
>   From: Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
>
>>   Mailman doesn't have great tools for this.  Instead, you should
>>   configure your mail server to reject or discard the spam messages
>>   before they ever get to Mailman.
>>
>> Any ideas how to do this when your ISP is hosting Mailman?
>
>   That would be the responsibility of your ISP.  If they're not doing
>   their job, then maybe you might want to find a different provider of
>   this particular service.
>
> Well, I'm happy with my ISP and have no plans to move *again*.  But  
> I will
> ask them again if they can do it.  The reply I got from them was:  
> "In the
> future Sonic.net could integrate SpamAssassin into Mailman but  
> that's not
> currently on anyones plate."
>
> Thanks,
> Cyndi
>

From cyndi at tikvah.com  Sat Dec  8 09:12:54 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 00:12:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <E271B82E-A5E7-4059-8DED-E7164352CE64@shub-internet.org> (message
	from Brad Knowles on Sat, 8 Dec 2007 01:53:21 -0600)
References: <00d001c838a8$c804d440$3403010a@undp.org.in>
	<p06240800c37f50eb9463@[192.168.1.101]>
	<200712072317.lB7NHAWI010646@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<p06240800c37fe8f035df@[192.168.1.101]>
	<200712080704.lB874SnD002672@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<E271B82E-A5E7-4059-8DED-E7164352CE64@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <200712080812.lB88CsYr023949@b.mail.sonic.net>

   From: Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
   Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 01:53:21 -0600

   I was talking about moving just your mailing lists, not all your ISP  
   services. Of course you could link those two if you want, but there  
   are plenty of mailing list only providers that you could at least  
   check out.

As I said, I am happy with my ISP and have no plans to move my lists again.

If there is no way for me to filter spam, then I will live with it until my
ISP is able to fix the problem.  Every provider has strengths and
weaknesses and I believe it is a poor choice to suddenly switch around
simply because there is one feature missing.  Another provider will have a
different weakness.  And most of them will cost money.  My lists are free
with my account services.

Cyndi


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Dec  8 17:49:30 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 08:49:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <200712080704.lB874SnD002672@a.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602007120808493002968cac3106@msapiro>

Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
>
>Well, I'm happy with my ISP and have no plans to move *again*.  But I will
>ask them again if they can do it.  The reply I got from them was: "In the
>future Sonic.net could integrate SpamAssassin into Mailman but that's not
>currently on anyones plate."


SpamAssassin is much better integrated in the MTA ahead of Mailman, but
if they want to integrate SpamAssassin with Mailman at some point,
refer them to
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=534577&group_id=103&atid=300103>
and
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=640518&group_id=103&atid=300103>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brian at emwd.com  Sat Dec  8 18:05:35 2007
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 12:05:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007120808493002968cac3106@msapiro>
References: <200712080704.lB874SnD002672@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<PC17602007120808493002968cac3106@msapiro>
Message-ID: <03fa01c839bc$8e68d910$ab3a8b30$@com>

Hi Cyndi:

I have been monitoring your situation. We offer a mailman hosting service
that does not require the client to move their entire hosting to us. Our
mailman clients have access to our mailscanner/spamassassin anti-spam system
for just $2 a month with great success. We have been offering mailman
services now for years and unlike many web hosts out there, we are committed
to supporting our mailman clients and not to ignoring them. Mailman is a
great software and we have enjoyed using and supporting it through the
years.

If you want more information, our mailman page is at
http://www.emwd.com/mailman.html. 

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'


-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark
Sapiro
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 11:50 AM
To: cyndi at tikvah.com; brad at shub-internet.org
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails

Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
>
>Well, I'm happy with my ISP and have no plans to move *again*.  But I will
>ask them again if they can do it.  The reply I got from them was: "In the
>future Sonic.net could integrate SpamAssassin into Mailman but that's not
>currently on anyones plate."


SpamAssassin is much better integrated in the MTA ahead of Mailman, but
if they want to integrate SpamAssassin with Mailman at some point,
refer them to
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=534577&group_id=10
3&atid=300103>
and
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=640518&group_id=10
3&atid=300103>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brian%40emwd.com

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Sat Dec  8 20:43:19 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:43:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing some list headers
Message-ID: <475AF3D7.7010501@Media-Brokers.com>

Hello again - hopefully you won't get too tired of me before I'm done... :)

While reading on 'Umbrella lists', I ran across a tip to remove some of 
the headers:

******************************

"2. Edit CookHeaders.py with your favorite editor.

Somewhere around line 116 (in version 2.0 final, at least), you'll see 
where the headers are added.  Simply delete each line.  Be careful not 
to upset the formatting - the indentation is important.

You can safely remove:

  * List-Unsubscribe, List-Subscribe, List-Post, List-ID, List-Help"

******************************

All I'm really interested in removing is the Sub, Unsub and Help 
headers, but this refers to v. 2.0 final, and the headers in question 
(that I'm interested in) begin on line # 206 instead of 116, so before I 
do this, I thought I'd ask...

If I wanted to remove these headers do I just comment the following lines?

    headers.update({
        'List-Help'       : '<mailto:%s?subject=help>' % requestaddr,
        'List-Unsubscribe': subfieldfmt % (listinfo, requestaddr, 'un'),
        'List-Subscribe'  : subfieldfmt % (listinfo, requestaddr, ''),
        })

Everyone subscribed to these lists are employees, and I do not want them 
to be able to sub/unsub or get help...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Dec  8 21:55:14 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 12:55:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing some list headers
In-Reply-To: <475AF3D7.7010501@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712081255140968266e3236@msapiro>

Charles Marcus wrote:
>
>All I'm really interested in removing is the Sub, Unsub and Help 
>headers, but this refers to v. 2.0 final, and the headers in question 
>(that I'm interested in) begin on line # 206 instead of 116, so before I 
>do this, I thought I'd ask...
>
>If I wanted to remove these headers do I just comment the following lines?
>
>    headers.update({
>        'List-Help'       : '<mailto:%s?subject=help>' % requestaddr,
>        'List-Unsubscribe': subfieldfmt % (listinfo, requestaddr, 'un'),
>        'List-Subscribe'  : subfieldfmt % (listinfo, requestaddr, ''),
>        })


If you want to remove just those 3 and keep the List-Post: and
List-Archive: headers, then yes, comment those lines.

OTOH, if you don't care about the List-Post: and List-Archive: headers,
then just set General Options->include_rfc2369_headers to No.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From david at midrange.com  Sat Dec  8 21:50:52 2007
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:50:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007120808493002968cac3106@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007120808493002968cac3106@msapiro>
Message-ID: <475B03AC.6090002@midrange.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> if they want to integrate SpamAssassin with Mailman at some point,
> refer them to
> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=640518&group_id=103&atid=300103>.

I can endorse this patch ... I've used it for years and it works great.

david


-- 
System i ... for when you can't afford to be out of business

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Sat Dec  8 22:46:02 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 16:46:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing some list headers
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712081255140968266e3236@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200712081255140968266e3236@msapiro>
Message-ID: <475B109A.8090100@Media-Brokers.com>

On 12/8/2007, Mark Sapiro (mark at msapiro.net) wrote:
> OTOH, if you don't care about the List-Post: and List-Archive: 
> headers, then just set General Options->include_rfc2369_headers to
> No.

Bingo... I actually saw that and wondered what it was... now I know... ;)

Thanks! Should be the last question for at least 3 or 4 minutes... :)

Great support here by the way, Mark... much appreciated.

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From cyndi at tikvah.com  Sat Dec  8 23:34:24 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 14:34:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007120808493002968cac3106@msapiro> (message from Mark
	Sapiro on Sat, 8 Dec 2007 08:49:30 -0800)
References: <PC17602007120808493002968cac3106@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200712082234.lB8MYOkl031963@a.mail.sonic.net>

   Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 08:49:30 -0800
   From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>

   SpamAssassin is much better integrated in the MTA ahead of Mailman, but
   if they want to integrate SpamAssassin with Mailman at some point,
   refer them to
   <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=534577&group_id=103&atid=300103>
   and
   <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=640518&group_id=103&atid=300103>.

Many thanks.  I have passed this along to my ISP.

Cyndi


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Dec  9 09:57:57 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 17:57:57 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <200712082234.lB8MYOkl031963@a.mail.sonic.net>
References: <PC17602007120808493002968cac3106@msapiro>
	<200712082234.lB8MYOkl031963@a.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <873auc9re2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Cyndi Norwitz writes:

 >    Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 08:49:30 -0800
 >    From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
 > 
 >    SpamAssassin is much better integrated in the MTA ahead of Mailman, but
 >    if they want to integrate SpamAssassin with Mailman at some point,
 >    refer them to
 >    <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=534577&group_id=103&atid=300103>
 >    and
 >    <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=640518&group_id=103&atid=300103>.
 > 
 > Many thanks.  I have passed this along to my ISP.

I thought you earlier wrote that SpamAssassin *is* being run by the
ISP, but "can't be used" with Mailman.  If SpamAssassin is installed,
I don't understand why you can't use it with Mailman.

Lack of spam filtering is not just another feature that might not be
provided in today's mail environment; it's a complete loss of service
waiting to happen.  IMHO YMMV etc, but I strongly advise you be
proactive on this.


From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in  Sun Dec  9 16:40:27 2007
From: vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in (Vinita Aggarwal)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 21:10:27 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error when I run service mailman restart
In-Reply-To: <873auc9re2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <000a01c83a79$d83d9ef0$5e7de0dc@undp.org.in>


Hi

When I run command-> service mailman restart, it gives following error.
Please help in sorting this error

[root at server ~]# service mailman restart
/etc/init.d/mailman: line 90:  1911 Segmentation fault      rm -f
/var/lock/subsys/$prog
/etc/init.d/mailman: line 59:  1913 Segmentation fault      cat
>$DST_CRON_SCRIPT  <<EOF
# DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE!
#
# Contents of this file managed by /etc/init.d/mailman
# Master copy is /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in
# Consult that file for documentation
EOF


/etc/init.d/mailman: line 76:  1926 Segmentation fault      touch
/var/lock/subsys/$prog

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+vinita.aggarwal=un.org.in at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+vinita.aggarwal=un.org.in at python.org] On
Behalf Of Stephen J. Turnbull
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 2:28 PM
To: cyndi at tikvah.com
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails

Cyndi Norwitz writes:

 >    Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 08:49:30 -0800
 >    From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
 > 
 >    SpamAssassin is much better integrated in the MTA ahead of Mailman,
but
 >    if they want to integrate SpamAssassin with Mailman at some point,
 >    refer them to
 >
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=534577&group_id=10
3&atid=300103>
 >    and
 >
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=640518&group_id=10
3&atid=300103>.
 > 
 > Many thanks.  I have passed this along to my ISP.

I thought you earlier wrote that SpamAssassin *is* being run by the
ISP, but "can't be used" with Mailman.  If SpamAssassin is installed,
I don't understand why you can't use it with Mailman.

Lack of spam filtering is not just another feature that might not be
provided in today's mail environment; it's a complete loss of service
waiting to happen.  IMHO YMMV etc, but I strongly advise you be
proactive on this.

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/vinita.aggarwal%40un.or
g.in

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in  Sun Dec  9 16:42:04 2007
From: vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in (Vinita Aggarwal)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 21:12:04 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error when i run service httpd restart
In-Reply-To: <873auc9re2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <000b01c83a7a$0f8b07d0$5e7de0dc@undp.org.in>


Hi,

When I restart httpd , it gives following error. Please help in solving this
error.

 
[root at server ~]# service httpd restart

Stopping httpd: /etc/rc.d/init.d/functions: line 156:  1099 Segmentation
fault      usleep 100000

/etc/rc.d/init.d/functions: line 156:  1101 Segmentation fault      sleep 1

/etc/rc.d/init.d/functions: line 156:  1105 Segmentation fault      rm -f
/var/run/$base.pid

 

Starting httpd: /etc/init.d/httpd: line 40:  1107 Segmentation fault
LANG=C grep -Eiq "^[[:space:]]*($GONE)" $CONFFILE

 

/etc/init.d/httpd: line 59:  1109 Segmentation fault      touch ${lockfile}
-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+vinita.aggarwal=un.org.in at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+vinita.aggarwal=un.org.in at python.org] On
Behalf Of Stephen J. Turnbull
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 2:28 PM
To: cyndi at tikvah.com
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails

Cyndi Norwitz writes:

 >    Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 08:49:30 -0800
 >    From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
 > 
 >    SpamAssassin is much better integrated in the MTA ahead of Mailman,
but
 >    if they want to integrate SpamAssassin with Mailman at some point,
 >    refer them to
 >
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=534577&group_id=10
3&atid=300103>
 >    and
 >
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=640518&group_id=10
3&atid=300103>.
 > 
 > Many thanks.  I have passed this along to my ISP.

I thought you earlier wrote that SpamAssassin *is* being run by the
ISP, but "can't be used" with Mailman.  If SpamAssassin is installed,
I don't understand why you can't use it with Mailman.

Lack of spam filtering is not just another feature that might not be
provided in today's mail environment; it's a complete loss of service
waiting to happen.  IMHO YMMV etc, but I strongly advise you be
proactive on this.

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/vinita.aggarwal%40un.or
g.in

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From sjorsgielen at gmail.com  Sun Dec  9 16:59:12 2007
From: sjorsgielen at gmail.com (Sjors Gielen)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 16:59:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman never replies to e-mail
Message-ID: <475C10D0.7070202@gmail.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi,

After a while of messing with it all, I got Mailman pretty much set up
correctly. I'm using a self-compiled Mailman along with Debians'
postfix. I needed to compile Mailman myself because the Debian version
had 'www-user' compiled-in as the web user, and my setup uses SuEXEC and
SuPHP to get different users and groups for every user. I've got the web
part set up, for the greatest part, now.
Also, when I send an e-mail from my Gmail account for, say,
mailman-subscribe at lists.dazjorz.com, the e-mail does arrive at Mailman:

Dec  9 15:08:24 server postfix/qmgr[20369]: 5F9BB4E005E:
from=<sjorsgielen at gmail.com>, size=1149, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Dec  9 15:08:25 server postfix/pipe[25456]: 5F9BB4E005E:
to=<mailman-subscribe at lists.dazjorz.com>, relay=mailman, delay=0.86,
delays=0.22/0.04/0/0.6, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered via mailman
service)

However, I never see it send a reply, at least not through postfix:

Dec 09 14:02:52 2007 (13531) Low level smtp error: (104, 'Connection
reset by peer'), msgid:
<mailman.0.1197135515.13418.mailman at lists.dazjorz.com>
Dec 09 14:02:52 2007 (13531) delivery to dazjorz at dazjorz.com failed with
code -1: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')

(the e-mail address here is the list administrator, which has to allow
the subscription before the confirmation, as set up in configuration).

I don't know if the complete setup is correct. This is the interesting
part of my mm_cfg.py:
MAILMAN_SITE_LIST='mailman';
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN='http://%s/mailman/'
PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL='/mailman/private'
MTA=None
IMAGE_LOGOS='/mmimages/'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST='lists.dazjorz.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST='lists.dazjorz.com'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST);
DEB_LISTMASTER='postmaster at dazjorz.com'
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFHXBDQqfvodGPEGSERAijBAJsEdl6bznxxXS5RMJ8hv79UUkuJzQCaA7BW
hVLh4DQZ4iMIPG02P/qkBrs=
=Z9xG
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Dec  9 17:14:33 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 08:14:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman never replies to e-mail
In-Reply-To: <475C10D0.7070202@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007120908143305464637bf63@msapiro>

Sjors Gielen wrote:
>
>However, I never see it send a reply, at least not through postfix:
>
>Dec 09 14:02:52 2007 (13531) Low level smtp error: (104, 'Connection
>reset by peer'), msgid:
><mailman.0.1197135515.13418.mailman at lists.dazjorz.com>
>Dec 09 14:02:52 2007 (13531) delivery to dazjorz at dazjorz.com failed with
>code -1: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')
>
>(the e-mail address here is the list administrator, which has to allow
>the subscription before the confirmation, as set up in configuration).


And the above (from Mailman's smtp-failure log) says mailman is trying
to send the held message notice to the owner, and there is a problem
during SMTP (with localhost port 25 assuming you haven't changed
SMTPHOST or SMTPPORT).

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Dec  9 17:35:00 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 08:35:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error when I run service mailman restart
In-Reply-To: <000a01c83a79$d83d9ef0$5e7de0dc@undp.org.in>
Message-ID: <PC17602007120908350007814637c02d@msapiro>

Vinita Aggarwal wrote:
>
>When I run command-> service mailman restart, it gives following error.
>Please help in sorting this error
>
>[root at server ~]# service mailman restart
>/etc/init.d/mailman: line 90:  1911 Segmentation fault      rm -f
>/var/lock/subsys/$prog
>/etc/init.d/mailman: line 59:  1913 Segmentation fault      cat
>>$DST_CRON_SCRIPT  <<EOF
># DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE!
>#
># Contents of this file managed by /etc/init.d/mailman
># Master copy is /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in
># Consult that file for documentation
>EOF
>
>
>/etc/init.d/mailman: line 76:  1926 Segmentation fault      touch
>/var/lock/subsys/$prog


I tried to tell you a couple of days ago
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-December/059421.html>
that you should start new topics by composing a new message to
mailman-users at python.org, not by replying to an unrelated post. I
suggest you go to
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-December/> and
look for your posts if you don't understand what I'm saying.

As far as the above error is concerned, and the related 'service httpd'
error in your other post is concerned, these are not things that this
list can help you with. These errors occur in the running of shell
scripts installed with the respective rpm packages. These are scripts
in /etc/init.d (or /etc/rc.d/init.d) named mailman, httpd, etc.

The problem above seems to occur before the script even tries to issue
a mailmanctl command.

If you can't figure out what the problem with this is, you can always
run "~mailman/bin/mailmanctl restart" directly.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From sjorsgielen at gmail.com  Sun Dec  9 18:00:30 2007
From: sjorsgielen at gmail.com (Sjors Gielen)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 18:00:30 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman never replies to e-mail
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007120908143305464637bf63@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007120908143305464637bf63@msapiro>
Message-ID: <475C1F2E.9090303@gmail.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Sjors Gielen wrote:
>> However, I never see it send a reply, at least not through postfix:
>>
>> Dec 09 14:02:52 2007 (13531) Low level smtp error: (104, 'Connection
>> reset by peer'), msgid:
>> <mailman.0.1197135515.13418.mailman at lists.dazjorz.com>
>> Dec 09 14:02:52 2007 (13531) delivery to dazjorz at dazjorz.com failed with
>> code -1: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')
>>
>> (the e-mail address here is the list administrator, which has to allow
>> the subscription before the confirmation, as set up in configuration).
> 
> 
> And the above (from Mailman's smtp-failure log) says mailman is trying
> to send the held message notice to the owner, and there is a problem
> during SMTP (with localhost port 25 assuming you haven't changed
> SMTPHOST or SMTPPORT).
> 
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>.
> 

I've just tried sending myself an e-mail again, and it is delivered to
Mailman, but I now don't even see an error message appear in the
errorlog, it doesn't even *try* to send a reply.
Also, I have Postgrey installed with Postfix, so that might be why the
message couldn't be sent. However, since Postfix then sends a 4xx reply,
shouldn't Mailman retry sending after ten minutes or so?

Sjors
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From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Dec  9 18:35:03 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 09:35:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman never replies to e-mail
In-Reply-To: <475C1F2E.9090303@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712090935030390b1cface9@msapiro>

Sjors Gielen wrote:
>
>I've just tried sending myself an e-mail again, and it is delivered to
>Mailman, but I now don't even see an error message appear in the
>errorlog, it doesn't even *try* to send a reply.
>Also, I have Postgrey installed with Postfix, so that might be why the
>message couldn't be sent. However, since Postfix then sends a 4xx reply,
>shouldn't Mailman retry sending after ten minutes or so?


Yes. If Mailman receives the 4xx status during SMTP, it will retry, but
Postgrey shouldn't be greylisting mail from localhost anyway.

Is the message held in Mailman? Check the admindb interface for the
list.

Also, check all Mailman's logs.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>

BTW, your OP indicated that Postfix was delivering via mailman service.
Are you using postfix-to-mailman2.1.py? Are you sure it's delivering
to Mailman?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cyndi at tikvah.com  Sun Dec  9 20:59:21 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 11:59:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <873auc9re2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (stephen@xemacs.org)
References: <PC17602007120808493002968cac3106@msapiro>
	<200712082234.lB8MYOkl031963@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<873auc9re2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <200712091959.lB9JxLJm002784@b.mail.sonic.net>

   From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org>
   Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 17:57:57 +0900

   I thought you earlier wrote that SpamAssassin *is* being run by the ISP,

Correct.

   but "can't be used" with Mailman. 

No, that they haven't taken the steps to integrate it with MM yet and have
no immediate plans to do so.  

   If SpamAssassin is installed, I don't understand why you can't use it
   with Mailman.

Is there a way *I* can without the ISP doing anything?

   Lack of spam filtering is not just another feature that might not be
   provided in today's mail environment; it's a complete loss of service
   waiting to happen.  IMHO YMMV etc, but I strongly advise you be
   proactive on this.

I'm working on it.  They do have SA for email.

This is a great small local ISP.  They are very responsive to problems and
go out of their way for their customers.  I suspect no one has asked them
yet for this feature.  I expect they'll deal with it soon.

Thanks,
Cyndi


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Dec  9 21:11:00 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 14:11:00 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <200712091959.lB9JxLJm002784@b.mail.sonic.net>
References: <PC17602007120808493002968cac3106@msapiro>
	<200712082234.lB8MYOkl031963@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<873auc9re2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<200712091959.lB9JxLJm002784@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <p06240801c381fb6f8cb9@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/9/07, Cyndi Norwitz wrote:

>>    I thought you earlier wrote that SpamAssassin *is* being run by the ISP,
>
>  Correct.
>
>>    but "can't be used" with Mailman.
>
>  No, that they haven't taken the steps to integrate it with MM yet and have
>  no immediate plans to do so.

They don't need to.  So long as they're running SpamAssassin on their 
machines and using the standard SpamAssassin tagging feature, you can 
take advantage of that.  You don't need any further help from them on 
that subject.

>>    If SpamAssassin is installed, I don't understand why you can't use it
>>    with Mailman.
>
>  Is there a way *I* can without the ISP doing anything?

Yes.  Set up your spam filters under "Privacy options..." then "Spam filters".

>>    Lack of spam filtering is not just another feature that might not be
>>    provided in today's mail environment; it's a complete loss of service
>>    waiting to happen.  IMHO YMMV etc, but I strongly advise you be
>>    proactive on this.
>
>  I'm working on it.  They do have SA for email.

So long as the e-mail for your mailing lists are passing through the 
same servers, then it doesn't matter.  At that point, e-mail is 
e-mail and it doesn't really matter who the sender is or who the 
recipient(s) is/are.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From sjorsgielen at gmail.com  Sun Dec  9 21:23:22 2007
From: sjorsgielen at gmail.com (Sjors Gielen)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 21:23:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman never replies to e-mail
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712090935030390b1cface9@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200712090935030390b1cface9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <475C4EBA.2090407@gmail.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Sjors Gielen wrote:
>> I've just tried sending myself an e-mail again, and it is delivered to
>> Mailman, but I now don't even see an error message appear in the
>> errorlog, it doesn't even *try* to send a reply.
>> Also, I have Postgrey installed with Postfix, so that might be why the
>> message couldn't be sent. However, since Postfix then sends a 4xx reply,
>> shouldn't Mailman retry sending after ten minutes or so?
> 
> 
> Yes. If Mailman receives the 4xx status during SMTP, it will retry, but
> Postgrey shouldn't be greylisting mail from localhost anyway.
> 
> Is the message held in Mailman? Check the admindb interface for the
> list.
> 
> Also, check all Mailman's logs.
> 
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>
> 
> BTW, your OP indicated that Postfix was delivering via mailman service.
> Are you using postfix-to-mailman2.1.py? Are you sure it's delivering
> to Mailman?
> 

No messages are held in Mailman, at least, I can't see any through
admindb. It seems like Mailman does send mail now, but it's being
blocked by the ISP because it's not able to verify
mailman-bouncer at lists.dazjorz.com due to Postgrey - I added the ISP's
SMTP servers to the whitelist, and now I'll just need to wait for the
ISP to delete its cache. I'll let you know when something happens (No
news is good news).
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Dec 10 00:24:32 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 08:24:32 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c381fb6f8cb9@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <PC17602007120808493002968cac3106@msapiro>
	<200712082234.lB8MYOkl031963@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<873auc9re2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<200712091959.lB9JxLJm002784@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<p06240801c381fb6f8cb9@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <87ve778n9r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > On 12/9/07, Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
 > 
 > >>    I thought you earlier wrote that SpamAssassin *is* being run by the ISP,
 > >
 > >  Correct.
 > >
 > >>    but "can't be used" with Mailman.
 > >
 > >  No, that they haven't taken the steps to integrate it with MM yet and have
 > >  no immediate plans to do so.
 > 
 > They don't need to.

And don't want to (I'm surprised Brad didn't reemphasize this).  If
they are running SpamAssassin, you want them to run it in such a way
that your MTA can refuse to accept the mail at all.  This has the
advantages that (1) you (and your Mailman) never see it, which (2)
saves your ISP the cost of running Mailman, and (3) in case of a
"false positive", a real user will see that their mail was bounced and
complain to you, and have some useful information for diagnosing why.

It's (2) and to some extent (3) that makes this method significantly
better than filtering on SpamAssassin headers at the Mailman stage.

 > So long as they're running SpamAssassin on their 
 > machines and using the standard SpamAssassin tagging feature, you can 
 > take advantage of that.  You don't need any further help from them on 
 > that subject.

Almost.  If you worry about false positives, you can ask them to make
sure that the "spam level header" which gives a "spamminess rating"
according to the number of stars (eg, X-Spam-Level: ********** is a
10) is enabled.  Then you can add a discard filter for
"^X-Spam-Level: \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*" to your Mailman configuration
which nukes all posts with level 10 spamminess or more, and a hold
filter to "^X-Spam-Level: \*\*\*\*\*" which holds posts with level 5
or more for moderation.  Tune the number of stars to fit your
experience.

This header is on by default, and you can easily check the headers of
list mail to see if it's there.

 > 
 > >>    If SpamAssassin is installed, I don't understand why you can't use it
 > >>    with Mailman.
 > >
 > >  Is there a way *I* can without the ISP doing anything?
 > 
 > Yes.  Set up your spam filters under "Privacy options..." then "Spam filters".
 > 
 > >>    Lack of spam filtering is not just another feature that might not be
 > >>    provided in today's mail environment; it's a complete loss of service
 > >>    waiting to happen.  IMHO YMMV etc, but I strongly advise you be
 > >>    proactive on this.
 > >
 > >  I'm working on it.  They do have SA for email.
 > 
 > So long as the e-mail for your mailing lists are passing through the 
 > same servers, then it doesn't matter.  At that point, e-mail is 
 > e-mail and it doesn't really matter who the sender is or who the 
 > recipient(s) is/are.
 > 
 > -- 
 > Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
 > LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
 > ------------------------------------------------------
 > Mailman-Users mailing list
 > Mailman-Users at python.org
 > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
 > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
 > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/stephen%40xemacs.org
 > 
 > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec 10 01:50:18 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 16:50:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring lists on newer version
In-Reply-To: <474B3279.1080107@pauahtun.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712091650180250e3d06f6c@msapiro>

Ivan Van Laningham wrote:
>
>QMAIL QUESTION, not Mailman:
>Now my big problem is that my qmail is configured with default, very 
>conservative, settings.  When I initially set the server up back in 
>March, I ran across a page on the net showing how to increase the limits 
>and queue sizes (?) to speed up qmail.  I failed to write that site 
>down, and naturally can't find it again.
>
>If anyone can help either track the site down, or fill me in on the 
>settings, to improve performance, I would greatly appreciate it.  I 
>apologize for the off-topic nature of the problem, but this list has 
>always been of the greatest help, and if there are any others out there 
>running Mailman on Plesk, the answers might help them too.


If you haven't seen
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.005.htp>,
then look at that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec 10 03:19:09 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 18:19:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From and Reply-To
In-Reply-To: <46364EFE-1D9A-4CC3-BF18-922BE08024A7@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602007120918190907658eb81fa6@msapiro>

Mikael Hansen wrote:

>I have noticed if a at b is not a member of a list and c at d is, then  
>posting using From: a at b along with Reply-To: c at d works?


See the default setting for SENDER_HEADERS and the comments preceding
it in Defaults.py. If you want to change it, change it in mm_cfg.py
and restart mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cyndi at tikvah.com  Mon Dec 10 05:14:08 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 20:14:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c381fb6f8cb9@[192.168.1.101]> (message from Brad
	Knowles on Sun, 9 Dec 2007 14:11:00 -0600)
References: <PC17602007120808493002968cac3106@msapiro>
	<200712082234.lB8MYOkl031963@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<873auc9re2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<200712091959.lB9JxLJm002784@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<p06240801c381fb6f8cb9@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <200712100414.lBA4E8dq024367@b.mail.sonic.net>

   Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 14:11:00 -0600
   From: Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>

   >  No, that they haven't taken the steps to integrate it with MM yet and have
   >  no immediate plans to do so.

   They don't need to.  So long as they're running SpamAssassin on their
   machines and using the standard SpamAssassin tagging feature, you can
   take advantage of that.  You don't need any further help from them on
   that subject.

That would rock.

   >  Is there a way *I* can without the ISP doing anything?

   Yes.  Set up your spam filters under "Privacy options..." then "Spam filters".

There is nothing called spam filters in privacy options.

I also checked content filtering and there is nothing relevant.

   So long as the e-mail for your mailing lists are passing through the
   same servers, then it doesn't matter.  At that point, e-mail is e-mail
   and it doesn't really matter who the sender is or who the recipient(s)
   is/are.

My guess is they are different servers, though the posts may pass through
the email server at some point.  List mail goes to lists.sonic.net, email
to sonic.net.

Cyndi


From cyndi at tikvah.com  Mon Dec 10 05:28:19 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 20:28:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <87ve778n9r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (stephen@xemacs.org)
References: <PC17602007120808493002968cac3106@msapiro>
	<200712082234.lB8MYOkl031963@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<873auc9re2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<200712091959.lB9JxLJm002784@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<p06240801c381fb6f8cb9@[192.168.1.101]>
	<87ve778n9r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <200712100428.lBA4SJLv028149@b.mail.sonic.net>

   From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org>
   Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 08:24:32 +0900

   Almost.  If you worry about false positives, you can ask them to make
   sure that the "spam level header" which gives a "spamminess rating"
   according to the number of stars (eg, X-Spam-Level: ********** is a 10)
   is enabled.  Then you can add a discard filter for "^X-Spam-Level:
   \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*" to your Mailman configuration which nukes all
   posts with level 10 spamminess or more, and a hold filter to
   "^X-Spam-Level: \*\*\*\*\*" which holds posts with level 5 or more for
   moderation.  Tune the number of stars to fit your experience.

But this isn't useful to me.  Oh, I'm sure some of the really bad spam
would go away, but this is a health list and so there are *a lot* of false
positives because we mention a lot of spam-like keywords.  So I'd have to
set the spam level pretty high.

A couple of months post-migration, I expect that the majority of my list
members will be off moderation.  Their posts will go through in what
amounts to a whitelist.  The rest will be moderated.

The spam sent to the posting address will be in my moderation window.
Mixed with the legit posts.  That is the problem.  Saying "this is spam so
I'm sending it to you for moderation" is not helpful.  The stuff is already
in moderation.  

I also don't want any member's mail that is not moderated to be marked spam
and held for moderation.  Given the nature of the list, this could easily
be 5-10% of all legit posts.  I do want the administriva filter on, but
that's already working okay.

Here's what I want:

Subscribers who are unmoderated to be whitelisted.
Non-subscribers who I have set to auto-accept to be whitelisted.
Potential spam from the moderated box to be sent to my graymail (my ISP's
  name (or maybe a common name, I don't know) for suspected spam--they send
  an email each night with the from and subject headers).

So, yes, I do want the spam filter to run through Mailman.  But I will
accept a spam filter from an earlier server if I can whitelist easily,
though it won't be very helpful to me.

Cyndi


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec 10 06:21:01 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 21:21:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <200712100414.lBA4E8dq024367@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712092121010156b35faefd@msapiro>

Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
>
>   Yes.  Set up your spam filters under "Privacy options..." then "Spam filters".
>
>There is nothing called spam filters in privacy options.


In the admin interface, there should be four sub-pages under Privacy
options...

    * Subscription rules
    * Sender filters
    * Recipient filters
    * Spam filters 

If they aren't all there, then this is something sonic.net has done to
their installation.


>My guess is they are different servers, though the posts may pass through
>the email server at some point.  List mail goes to lists.sonic.net, email
>to sonic.net.


Does list mail (received posts) have any SpamAssassin headers, e.g.
X-Spam-Status:, X-Spam-Flag:, X-Spam-Level:.

If so, you can filter on those with header_filter_rules which is under
Spam filters if you have it, but see my reply (to come) to your
subsequent post.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec 10 06:34:45 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 21:34:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <200712100428.lBA4SJLv028149@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712092134450875b35fb1f8@msapiro>

Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
>
>The spam sent to the posting address will be in my moderation window.
>Mixed with the legit posts.  That is the problem.  Saying "this is spam so
>I'm sending it to you for moderation" is not helpful.  The stuff is already
>in moderation.  


How about rejecting or discarding non-member posts instead of holding
them. does that help? Note that there are problems with rejecting spam
although Mailman has limits on the number of autoresponses per day to
a given user to prevent joe-jobbing. There are also problems with
discarding non-member posts if you ever expect to get legitimate
messages from non-members, but these are options to consider
(generic_nonmember_action = reject or discard).


>I also don't want any member's mail that is not moderated to be marked spam
>and held for moderation.  Given the nature of the list, this could easily
>be 5-10% of all legit posts.


So you are basically saying that you don't trust any spam filter other
than a human, so all this discussion is moot.


>I do want the administriva filter on, but
>that's already working okay.
>
>Here's what I want:
>
>Subscribers who are unmoderated to be whitelisted.
>Non-subscribers who I have set to auto-accept to be whitelisted.


You already have these.


>Potential spam from the moderated box to be sent to my graymail (my ISP's
>  name (or maybe a common name, I don't know) for suspected spam--they send
>  an email each night with the from and subject headers).


Mailman sends a summary every morning with the From: and Subject: of
the held posts waiting moderator action.


>So, yes, I do want the spam filter to run through Mailman.  But I will
>accept a spam filter from an earlier server if I can whitelist easily,
>though it won't be very helpful to me.


Here you have a problem because detecting a flagged post based on
header_filter_rules is not sensitive to whether or not the poster is
"whitelisted" (you could make rules for this, but it would be too
cumbersome; you'd basically need to list everyone's address in a rule).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cyndi at tikvah.com  Mon Dec 10 06:49:25 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 21:49:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712092121010156b35faefd@msapiro> (message from Mark
	Sapiro on Sun, 9 Dec 2007 21:21:01 -0800)
References: <PC1760200712092121010156b35faefd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200712100549.lBA5nP2l000666@a.mail.sonic.net>

   Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 21:21:01 -0800
   From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>

   Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
   >There is nothing called spam filters in privacy options.

   In the admin interface, there should be four sub-pages under Privacy
   options...

Yeah, duh, somehow I missed that :)

   Does list mail (received posts) have any SpamAssassin headers, e.g.
   X-Spam-Status:, X-Spam-Flag:, X-Spam-Level:.

Not taht I can see.  Here's a sample header from a spam attempted post:

Received: from b.mx.sonic.net (b.mx.sonic.net [209.204.159.4])
	  by listman.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id
	  lB56QfhY031208
	  for &lt;immune at listman.sonic.net&gt;; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 22:26:41
	  -0800
Received: from fedmail.FEDMAIL (70.43.123.148.nw.nuvox.net [70.43.123.148])
	  by b.mx.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id
	  lB56Qchx002626
	  for &lt;immune at sonic.net&gt;; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 22:26:41 -0800
Message-Id: &lt;200712050626.lB56Qchx002626 at b.mx.sonic.net&gt;
Received: from fedmail (70.43.123.67.nw.nuvox.net [70.43.123.67]) by
	  fedmail.FEDMAIL with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail
	  Service Version 5.5.2653.13)
	  id YFVARF1L; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 01:10:37 -0500
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 01:10:36 -0500
From: Prime Vendor&lt;fedmail at fedmail.prime-vendor.com&gt;
Sender: fedmail at fedmail.prime-vendor.com
Reply-to: fedmail at fedmail.prime-vendor.com
Subject: Hello JAMES FELDMAN
To: immune at sonic.net
X-Sonic-SB-IP-RBLs: IP RBLs .


Thanks,
Cyndi


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec 10 06:58:31 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 21:58:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <200712100549.lBA5nP2l000666@a.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712092158310421b35fb024@msapiro>

Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
>
>   Does list mail (received posts) have any SpamAssassin headers, e.g.
>   X-Spam-Status:, X-Spam-Flag:, X-Spam-Level:.
>
>Not taht I can see.  Here's a sample header from a spam attempted post:
>
>Received: from b.mx.sonic.net (b.mx.sonic.net [209.204.159.4])
>	  by listman.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id
>	  lB56QfhY031208
>	  for &lt;immune at listman.sonic.net&gt;; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 22:26:41
>	  -0800
>Received: from fedmail.FEDMAIL (70.43.123.148.nw.nuvox.net [70.43.123.148])
>	  by b.mx.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id
>	  lB56Qchx002626
>	  for &lt;immune at sonic.net&gt;; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 22:26:41 -0800
>Message-Id: &lt;200712050626.lB56Qchx002626 at b.mx.sonic.net&gt;
>Received: from fedmail (70.43.123.67.nw.nuvox.net [70.43.123.67]) by
>	  fedmail.FEDMAIL with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail
>	  Service Version 5.5.2653.13)
>	  id YFVARF1L; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 01:10:37 -0500
>Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 01:10:36 -0500
>From: Prime Vendor&lt;fedmail at fedmail.prime-vendor.com&gt;
>Sender: fedmail at fedmail.prime-vendor.com
>Reply-to: fedmail at fedmail.prime-vendor.com
>Subject: Hello JAMES FELDMAN
>To: immune at sonic.net
>X-Sonic-SB-IP-RBLs: IP RBLs .


Well, that last one seems to say that something at sonic thinks the
sending IP is in a blacklist, or maybe that blacklists were checked
and the IP wasn't found.

You'd probably have to ask sonic what the possible headers are and what
they mean.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cyndi at tikvah.com  Mon Dec 10 06:58:52 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 21:58:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712092134450875b35fb1f8@msapiro> (message from Mark
	Sapiro on Sun, 9 Dec 2007 21:34:45 -0800)
References: <PC1760200712092134450875b35fb1f8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200712100558.lBA5wqR8018022@b.mail.sonic.net>

   Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 21:34:45 -0800
   From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>

   How about rejecting or discarding non-member posts instead of holding
   them. does that help?

If the spam problem is too great, I may have to disallow non-member posts
except for people who write me asking to be put on an approved list.  I
have several regular posters who are not subscribers by their own choice
(their posts are generally newsletters).  My preference is to allow
non-member posts but moderate them (except for the few I put an auto-allow
on). 

   >I also don't want any member's mail that is not moderated to be marked
   >spam and held for moderation.  Given the nature of the list, this could
   >easily be 5-10% of all legit posts.

   So you are basically saying that you don't trust any spam filter other
   than a human, so all this discussion is moot.

No.  I said I don't want my unmoderated members to get their posts held due
to having keywords that match spam.  Spam filters always have false
positives.  In my experience, SA has a ton of false positives on my list
posts.  Spam filters are very useful but I don't want to rely on them
100%. 

   >Here's what I want:
   >
   >Subscribers who are unmoderated to be whitelisted.
   >Non-subscribers who I have set to auto-accept to be whitelisted.

   You already have these.

If the spam filter works on the mail server, then it will screen all the
posts, not just the ones held for moderation.

   >Potential spam from the moderated box to be sent to my graymail (my ISP's
   >  name (or maybe a common name, I don't know) for suspected spam--they send
   >  an email each night with the from and subject headers).

   Mailman sends a summary every morning with the From: and Subject: of
   the held posts waiting moderator action.

Yes, that is acceptable, if I can access them.  But I don't want spam to be
left in my moderation box.

   Here you have a problem because detecting a flagged post based on
   header_filter_rules is not sensitive to whether or not the poster is
   "whitelisted" (you could make rules for this, but it would be too
   cumbersome; you'd basically need to list everyone's address in a rule).

I agree.  There is no easy way I see of doing what I want.  I guess I need
to see what all the options are and play with it for a while and see what
my ISP does.

Thanks,
Cyndi


From spyropolymiadis at kromestudios.com  Mon Dec 10 06:57:58 2007
From: spyropolymiadis at kromestudios.com (Spyro Polymiadis)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:57:58 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <200712100549.lBA5nP2l000666@a.mail.sonic.net>
References: <PC1760200712092121010156b35faefd@msapiro>
	<200712100549.lBA5nP2l000666@a.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A07A2464A26@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>

Ive got it working with spamassassin just fine,

It gets spam checked as soon as its received by postfix, then it passes on to the mailman software - where non dropped spam gets checked again

I just have X-Spam-Flag: YES = discard (or hold for moderation in some more important lists) in my spam settings and for it not to accept mail from non list members (unless it's a public list) - ontop of that postfix does rbl checks etc and drops most spam now before it even hits spamassassin for checking..

Its worked a treat thus far..

Cheers
Spyro

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+spyropolymiadis=kromestudios.com at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-
> bounces+spyropolymiadis=kromestudios.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Cyndi
> Norwitz
> Sent: Monday, 10 December 2007 4:19 PM
> To: mark at msapiro.net
> Cc: cyndi at tikvah.com; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
>
>    Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 21:21:01 -0800
>    From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
>
>    Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
>    >There is nothing called spam filters in privacy options.
>
>    In the admin interface, there should be four sub-pages under Privacy
>    options...
>
> Yeah, duh, somehow I missed that :)
>
>    Does list mail (received posts) have any SpamAssassin headers, e.g.
>    X-Spam-Status:, X-Spam-Flag:, X-Spam-Level:.
>
> Not taht I can see.  Here's a sample header from a spam attempted post:
>
> Received: from b.mx.sonic.net (b.mx.sonic.net [209.204.159.4])
>           by listman.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP
> id
>           lB56QfhY031208
>           for &lt;immune at listman.sonic.net&gt;; Tue, 4 Dec 2007
> 22:26:41
>           -0800
> Received: from fedmail.FEDMAIL (70.43.123.148.nw.nuvox.net
> [70.43.123.148])
>           by b.mx.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id
>           lB56Qchx002626
>           for &lt;immune at sonic.net&gt;; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 22:26:41 -0800
> Message-Id: &lt;200712050626.lB56Qchx002626 at b.mx.sonic.net&gt;
> Received: from fedmail (70.43.123.67.nw.nuvox.net [70.43.123.67]) by
>           fedmail.FEDMAIL with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail
>           Service Version 5.5.2653.13)
>           id YFVARF1L; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 01:10:37 -0500
> Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 01:10:36 -0500
> From: Prime Vendor&lt;fedmail at fedmail.prime-vendor.com&gt;
> Sender: fedmail at fedmail.prime-vendor.com
> Reply-to: fedmail at fedmail.prime-vendor.com
> Subject: Hello JAMES FELDMAN
> To: immune at sonic.net
> X-Sonic-SB-IP-RBLs: IP RBLs .
>
>
> Thanks,
> Cyndi
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-
> users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
> users/spyropolymiadis%40kromestudios.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-
> mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



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From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec 10 07:19:50 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 22:19:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <200712100558.lBA5wqR8018022@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712092219500687b35fb141@msapiro>

Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
>
>I agree.  There is no easy way I see of doing what I want.  I guess I need
>to see what all the options are and play with it for a while and see what
>my ISP does.


So if I understand, you want spam filtering to apply only to
non-members who aren't in accept_these_nonmembers.

You aren't going to be able to do that unless sonic installs the
SpamAssassin patch referred to earlier in this thread or something
similar.

What that patch allows is setting a SpamAssassin 'hold' score and a
SpamAssassin 'discard' score and a member bonus for being a member or
in accept_these_nonmembers. If you set the member bonus high enough,
no member post would ever be held or discarded.

The problem with that is those settings are global, not per-list. The
patch could always be modified to make the settings per-list, but that
makes it less likely you'd ever see it installed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Dec 10 07:23:20 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:23:20 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <200712100428.lBA4SJLv028149@b.mail.sonic.net>
References: <PC17602007120808493002968cac3106@msapiro>
	<200712082234.lB8MYOkl031963@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<873auc9re2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<200712091959.lB9JxLJm002784@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<p06240801c381fb6f8cb9@[192.168.1.101]>
	<87ve778n9r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<200712100428.lBA4SJLv028149@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <87fxybdq5j.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Cyndi Norwitz writes:

 > But this isn't useful to me.  Oh, I'm sure some of the really bad spam
 > would go away, but this is a health list and so there are *a lot* of false
 > positives because we mention a lot of spam-like keywords.  So I'd have to
 > set the spam level pretty high.

Heh.  You're asking a lot of the current technology; if I were you,
I'd take up a collection and hire a consultant.  That said ...

Are you sure you get a lot of false positives?  Spam filtering is more
than just looking for "Viagra" or "Tylenol".  You really ought to look
at a sample of say 100 posts or maybe 1000, and see just how bad it
gets.  You might be pleasantly surprised at how few posts fall into
the only-a-human-can-tell range.

It's also possible to tune SpamAssassin by deemphasizing rules that
give false positives, as well as by using the sa-learn tool to train
its adaptive filters.  (If that's not your cup of tea, take up a
collection and hire a consultant.)

There are alternatives such as SpamBayes which may be easier to
integrate.

 > members will be off moderation.  Their posts will go through in what
 > amounts to a whitelist.  The rest will be moderated.

I assume your list archives are non-public?  Otherwise whitelisting is
dangerous (I've gotten spam claiming to be from Barry Warsaw, for
example).

 > The spam sent to the posting address will be in my moderation window.
 > Mixed with the legit posts.  That is the problem.  Saying "this is spam so
 > I'm sending it to you for moderation" is not helpful.  The stuff is already
 > in moderation.  

Yes, we understand that.  What I'm saying that saying "this is
definitely spam so it goes in the trash" *is* helpful, and I get a
heck of a lot of spam that doesn't anything to do with health: stock
scams, counterfeit watches, and pirated software, for example.  If you
can get rid of all of that, wouldn't it be a big win?

 > Here's what I want:
 > 
 > Subscribers who are unmoderated to be whitelisted.
 > Non-subscribers who I have set to auto-accept to be whitelisted.
 > Potential spam from the moderated box to be sent to my graymail

Reasonable.

 > So, yes, I do want the spam filter to run through Mailman.

Well, maybe you do.  Then again, maybe life would be better if you
handled all whitelisting and spam moderation through SpamAssassin.
SpamAssassin *can* do all of the above without being integrated into
Mailman.


From cyndi at tikvah.com  Mon Dec 10 07:30:30 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 22:30:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712092219500687b35fb141@msapiro> (message from Mark
	Sapiro on Sun, 9 Dec 2007 22:19:50 -0800)
References: <PC1760200712092219500687b35fb141@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200712100630.lBA6UU3U025409@b.mail.sonic.net>

   Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 22:19:50 -0800
   From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>

   So if I understand, you want spam filtering to apply only to
   non-members who aren't in accept_these_nonmembers.

That would be my preference.  But I would accept any form of spam filtering
and then simply work with it to reduce my workload as much as possible.

   You aren't going to be able to do that unless sonic installs the
   SpamAssassin patch referred to earlier in this thread or something
   similar.

   What that patch allows is setting a SpamAssassin 'hold' score and a
   SpamAssassin 'discard' score and a member bonus for being a member or
   in accept_these_nonmembers. If you set the member bonus high enough,
   no member post would ever be held or discarded.

This would work.

   The problem with that is those settings are global, not per-list. The
   patch could always be modified to make the settings per-list, but that
   makes it less likely you'd ever see it installed.

Nodding.  There are pros and cons to not running your own server.  

As for whether or not I actually see false positives...yes, I got several a
week from my list posts alone.  On lists that totalled a couple hundred
legit posts a week.  The spam filter would catch them not just for medical
words but for being from the wrong ISP or setting up their email program
not quite right, using the wrong phrase, and so forth.

Cyndi


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Dec 10 07:44:29 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:44:29 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <200712100558.lBA5wqR8018022@b.mail.sonic.net>
References: <PC1760200712092134450875b35fb1f8@msapiro>
	<200712100558.lBA5wqR8018022@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <87ejdvdp6a.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Cyndi Norwitz writes:

 >    Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 21:34:45 -0800
 >    From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
 > 
 >    How about rejecting or discarding non-member posts instead of holding
 >    them. does that help?
 > 
 > If the spam problem is too great, I may have to disallow non-member posts
 > except for people who write me asking to be put on an approved list.  I
 > have several regular posters who are not subscribers by their own choice
 > (their posts are generally newsletters).

This kind of poster might best be served by having them subscribe and
set their subscription to no-mail.  This also is a useful strategy for
members with multiple addresses.

 > My preference is to allow non-member posts but moderate them
 > (except for the few I put an auto-allow on).

Auto-allow non-members are a good candidate for subscribe-and-no-mail.
It could work for the "other" non-members, depending on how they find
out about your list(s).  If people's posts are urgent (at least to
them), subscribe-and-no-mail is not a great strategy, of course.  My
lists are like that (bug reports on software), but I've found it to be
a tolerable compromise nevertheless.  Even people who very rarely post
are often happy to to have an easy way to get that "free pass" (as
long as it doesn't mean they get unwanted mail from my lists).

 > No.  I said I don't want my unmoderated members to get their posts held due
 > to having keywords that match spam.  Spam filters always have false
 > positives.  In my experience, SA has a ton of false positives on my list
 > posts.

Please be more specific about "false positive".  If you mean according
to the default setting of "5.0 is spam", you might still get rid of a
*lot* of spam by raising that to 10.0 without false positives.

 > Yes, that is acceptable, if I can access them.  But I don't want spam to be
 > left in my moderation box.

How does your graymail work?  It sounded to me like it was just
another moderation box.  Now you have two, as I understand it.  This
may be a win for you, but I don't see why it would be offhand.


From cyndi at tikvah.com  Mon Dec 10 07:53:10 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 22:53:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <87ejdvdp6a.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (stephen@xemacs.org)
References: <PC1760200712092134450875b35fb1f8@msapiro>
	<200712100558.lBA5wqR8018022@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<87ejdvdp6a.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <200712100653.lBA6rAHI030403@b.mail.sonic.net>

   From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org>
   Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:44:29 +0900

    > If the spam problem is too great, I may have to disallow non-member posts
    > except for people who write me asking to be put on an approved list.  I
    > have several regular posters who are not subscribers by their own choice
    > (their posts are generally newsletters).

   This kind of poster might best be served by having them subscribe and
   set their subscription to no-mail.  This also is a useful strategy for
   members with multiple addresses.

This will not work in my situation for more than a certain percentage of my
non-member posts.  The details aren't important (to this list anyway).

    > No.  I said I don't want my unmoderated members to get their posts
    > held due to having keywords that match spam.  Spam filters always
    > have false positives.  In my experience, SA has a ton of false
    > positives on my list posts.

   Please be more specific about "false positive".  If you mean according
   to the default setting of "5.0 is spam", you might still get rid of a
   *lot* of spam by raising that to 10.0 without false positives.

False positive means it's legit mail that is in my spam folder.  Using my
ISP's defaults.

    > Yes, that is acceptable, if I can access them.  But I don't want spam to be
    > left in my moderation box.

   How does your graymail work?  It sounded to me like it was just
   another moderation box.  Now you have two, as I understand it.  This
   may be a win for you, but I don't see why it would be offhand.

Graymail is a list of from addresses and subject headers of every email
there.  If it's all spam, I scan and ignore.  It goes away forever after 7
days (my setting).

Anything in moderation for MM must be clicked on.  One at a time.  3 clicks
per sender (which means per spam most of the time) if I want to set the
address to auto-discard and ban the spammer from joining the list, in
addition to simply discarding the email.

False positives are far easier to deal with in MM moderation than in
graymail, but my ISP is about to come out with a better version of graymail
that may reduce the workload.

Cyndi


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Dec 10 08:57:44 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:57:44 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <200712100653.lBA6rAHI030403@b.mail.sonic.net>
References: <PC1760200712092134450875b35fb1f8@msapiro>
	<200712100558.lBA5wqR8018022@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<87ejdvdp6a.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<200712100653.lBA6rAHI030403@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <87d4tfdls7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Cyndi Norwitz writes:

 > This will not work in my situation for more than a certain percentage of my
 > non-member posts.  The details aren't important (to this list anyway).

Sure, but you're being nibbled to death by mice.  Everything that you
can offload onto other people is more time for you to spend on the
service you want to provide.  In my personal experience that "works"
in the sense that a number of people do go to the trouble to save me
time, and some even express gratitude for the chance to help.  YMMV,
of course.

 > False positive means it's legit mail that is in my spam folder.  Using my
 > ISP's defaults.

Well, those defaults are not well-tuned to your list.  (You obviously
know they're not working; my point is that there's a very good chance
that they can be tuned a *lot* better.)  Timing is up to you, but my
advice is to get in touch with your ISP early and often and see if
they'll give you some access to tuning SA (SpamAssassin) scores for
rules that give you a lot of false positives, and to training SA's
adaptive filters against a pile of your list mail.

BTW, I see that you have checked for SA headers in your list mail and
not found them.  If they're using something else, a lot of what has
been said about SA applies to most filter software to some degree.
And if they're not using anything, the sooner they start, the better
for everybody.

Regards,


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Dec 10 09:04:43 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 02:04:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <200712100414.lBA4E8dq024367@b.mail.sonic.net>
References: <PC17602007120808493002968cac3106@msapiro>
	<200712082234.lB8MYOkl031963@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<873auc9re2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<200712091959.lB9JxLJm002784@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<p06240801c381fb6f8cb9@[192.168.1.101]>
	<200712100414.lBA4E8dq024367@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <p06240800c382a354e6bb@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/9/07, Cyndi Norwitz wrote:

>>    >  Is there a way *I* can without the ISP doing anything?
>
>>    Yes.  Set up your spam filters under "Privacy options..." then
>>  "Spam filters".
>
>  There is nothing called spam filters in privacy options.

Then your ISP has installed a pretty non-standard version of Mailman. 
The standard version has this feature.  Again, you need to talk to 
your ISP.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Dec 10 09:14:14 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 02:14:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <200712100428.lBA4SJLv028149@b.mail.sonic.net>
References: <PC17602007120808493002968cac3106@msapiro>
	<200712082234.lB8MYOkl031963@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<873auc9re2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<200712091959.lB9JxLJm002784@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<p06240801c381fb6f8cb9@[192.168.1.101]>
	<87ve778n9r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<200712100428.lBA4SJLv028149@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <p06240801c382a3a4f979@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/9/07, Cyndi Norwitz wrote:

>  But this isn't useful to me.  Oh, I'm sure some of the really bad spam
>  would go away, but this is a health list and so there are *a lot* of false
>  positives because we mention a lot of spam-like keywords.  So I'd have to
>  set the spam level pretty high.

It depends on how your ISP runs SpamAssassin.  It is possible to run 
it in a manner where the user has full control over what rules and 
what scores will be applied to their mail, and when you train 
SpamAssassin by feeding it examples of spam that has gotten through 
or ham that has accidentally been mis-identified, these rules and 
scores will be updated as necessary.

I've been seriously fighting spam for about twelve years (as the Sr. 
Internet Mail Administrator for AOL, I wrote some of the earliest 
comprehensive anti-spam measures for sendmail, which I then 
re-published to the community), and I've spoken on this subject at 
conferences, I've been a member of the IETF/IRTF Anti-Spam Research 
Group, and was the head of the Best Current Practices sub-group.

I can tell you, with some authority, that the only effective way to 
run SpamAssassin is to do so using these per-user methods.  And that 
if you (the ISP) do actually run it in this way, you really can quite 
effectively catch or identify most spam, even in environments where 
you would otherwise tend to generate excessive false positive matches.


Of course, that doesn't mean that your ISP is actually going to do 
any of these things.

>  Here's what I want:
>
>  Subscribers who are unmoderated to be whitelisted.
>  Non-subscribers who I have set to auto-accept to be whitelisted.

That doesn't work, either.  Spammers troll the archives of mailing 
lists to find addresses they can use -- to spam those mailing lists, 
among others.  You can't just auto-whitelist all addresses in certain 
classes.

>  Potential spam from the moderated box to be sent to my graymail (my ISP's
>   name (or maybe a common name, I don't know) for suspected spam--they send
>   an email each night with the from and subject headers).

No, that's not a common name.  I've been in this business for nearly 
twenty years, and in all that time, I have never heard this 
particular term used in this manner.  More common terms are folders 
with names like "quarantine" or "probable spam".

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Dec 10 09:18:31 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 02:18:31 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <87fxybdq5j.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC17602007120808493002968cac3106@msapiro>
	<200712082234.lB8MYOkl031963@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<873auc9re2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<200712091959.lB9JxLJm002784@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<p06240801c381fb6f8cb9@[192.168.1.101]>
	<87ve778n9r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<200712100428.lBA4SJLv028149@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<87fxybdq5j.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240802c382a67ba3ba@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/10/07, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>  There are alternatives such as SpamBayes which may be easier to
>  integrate.

Everything is being done by her ISP, so I don't know that it's useful 
to discuss alternative solutions.  Either way, she's got to live with 
whatever they give her, at least up until the point she reconsiders 
whether or not she's going to move at least her mailing list services 
to a different provider that might be more responsive.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Dec 10 09:23:06 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 02:23:06 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <200712100653.lBA6rAHI030403@b.mail.sonic.net>
References: <PC1760200712092134450875b35fb1f8@msapiro>
	<200712100558.lBA5wqR8018022@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<87ejdvdp6a.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<200712100653.lBA6rAHI030403@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <p06240803c382a733ceff@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/9/07, Cyndi Norwitz wrote:

>  False positive means it's legit mail that is in my spam folder.  Using my
>  ISP's defaults.

Sounds like you need to talk to your ISP about how those defaults can 
be changed to be something more suitable for you.

>  Anything in moderation for MM must be clicked on.

Not true.  At least, not entirely true.

If there's anything you want to allow through, then yes -- those have 
to be clicked on.

Everything else could be left in the default "Defer" mode, and then 
you simply click the check box at the top or bottom of the page which 
says "Discard all mail marked 'Defer'", then hit the "Submit Your 
Changes" button.

>                                                     One at a time.  3 clicks
>  per sender (which means per spam most of the time) if I want to set the
>  address to auto-discard and ban the spammer from joining the list, in
>  addition to simply discarding the email.

See above.  All the stuff you want thrown away should be able to be 
thrown away with just one and only one click.

You should only have to click on anything else if you want to reject 
it, allow it through, or take some other less typical action.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Mon Dec 10 12:55:27 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 06:55:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712092134450875b35fb1f8@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200712092134450875b35fb1f8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <475D292F.3010305@Media-Brokers.com>

On 12/10/2007, Mark Sapiro (mark at msapiro.net) wrote:
> Mailman sends a summary every morning with the From: and Subject: of
> the held posts waiting moderator action.

Where is this option? I don't currently get these, but I'd like to...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From pkey at sgul.ac.uk  Mon Dec 10 15:21:24 2007
From: pkey at sgul.ac.uk (Paul Key)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:21:24 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest question
Message-ID: <475D4B64.7010107@sgul.ac.uk>

MM 2.1.3
Solaris 9

I have only one list on mailman that wants to use the digest facility to 
send out digests twice a day, at 8.15am and 1.15pm, monday to friday.

I know senddigest is entered in cron but should other lists want digest 
ability they may want different times dates.  Do I need multiple cron 
entries for senddigest?  Is senddigest configurable?  Can I pass in 
command line parameters telling senddigest which lists to send digests for?

Thanks

Paul

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec 10 16:55:00 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 07:55:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <475D292F.3010305@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712100755000296e46840a8@msapiro>

Charles Marcus wrote:

>On 12/10/2007, Mark Sapiro (mark at msapiro.net) wrote:
>> Mailman sends a summary every morning with the From: and Subject: of
>> the held posts waiting moderator action.
>
>Where is this option? I don't currently get these, but I'd like to...


There is no option for this per se. The option (admin_immed_notify) is
to get or not get the per message notices. The daily summary is
produced by cron/checkdbs which should run daily at 8:00 a.m. if you
have the default Mailman crontab installed.

If you aren't getting the summary, either cron isn't running checkdbs
or you are so diligent at dealing with held messages that there never
are any outstanding when checkdbs runs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Dec 10 16:57:54 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:57:54 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <475D292F.3010305@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <PC1760200712092134450875b35fb1f8@msapiro>
	<475D292F.3010305@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c3831225dfd1@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/10/07, Charles Marcus wrote:

>>  Mailman sends a summary every morning with the From: and Subject: of
>>  the held posts waiting moderator action.
>
>  Where is this option? I don't currently get these, but I'd like to...

That's a standard Mailman cron job.  You can also turn on immediate 
notices, if you want.  However, there should not be any way you can 
turn off the standard daily notices, short of disabling that cron job.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec 10 17:26:51 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 08:26:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest question
In-Reply-To: <475D4B64.7010107@sgul.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC17602007121008265100009a3436d3@msapiro>

Paul Key wrote:
>
>I know senddigest is entered in cron but should other lists want digest 
>ability they may want different times dates.  Do I need multiple cron 
>entries for senddigest?  Is senddigest configurable?  Can I pass in 
>command line parameters telling senddigest which lists to send digests for?


Yes. "cron/senddigests -l listname"

What it doesn't have is an "exclude listname" option so it would be
easy enough to add a crontab entry to send digests for this list at
8:15 and 13:15 M-F, but not sending digests to this list at the
"regular" times is trickier.

Of course, if you made the regular times say 13:15 M-F, then you could
just add the 8:15 M-F entry for this list, but if you wanted to keep
sending to other lists at daily at noon, you'd need something along
the lines of:

#!/bin/bash
cd ~mailman
for list in `bin/list_lists --bare`
do if [[ $list != special-list ]]
then cron/senddigests -l $list
fi
done

to be run at the normal time.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Mon Dec 10 17:35:49 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 08:35:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman never replies to e-mail
In-Reply-To: <475C1F2E.9090303@gmail.com>
References: <PC17602007120908143305464637bf63@msapiro>
	<475C1F2E.9090303@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200712101624.lBAGOGSM020292@unreal.eroded.org>

Sjors Gielen wrote:

>I've just tried sending myself an e-mail again, and it is delivered to
>Mailman, but I now don't even see an error message appear in the
>errorlog, it doesn't even *try* to send a reply.
>Also, I have Postgrey installed with Postfix, so that might be why the
>message couldn't be sent. However, since Postfix then sends a 4xx reply,
>shouldn't Mailman retry sending after ten minutes or so?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

I see you are posting from a Gmail account.

I will lay 100% odds that this is the problem.

Gmail has a really unhelpful "feature" of hiding messages it receives 
that have the same message ID as one sent from your Gmail account. 
Now if somebody else were to post a reply to the list to that 
message, Gmail will "magically" display that message in the thread.

This is a well known issue here on this list and I know a number of 
Gmail users have complained about it but Google apparently has no 
intention of fixing it (last I heard).


Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Mon Dec 10 18:05:12 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:05:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop spam emails
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712100755000296e46840a8@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200712100755000296e46840a8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <475D71C8.5090808@Media-Brokers.com>

On 12/10/2007, Mark Sapiro (mark at msapiro.net) wrote:
> If you aren't getting the summary, either cron isn't running checkdbs
> or you are so diligent at dealing with held messages that there never
> are any outstanding when checkdbs runs.

Duh... ok, there is no daily cron job for it (I had someone help me get 
this server set up a long time ago before I was comfortable doing stuff 
like this myself, and guess he forgot to do this)...

Mailman is in the cron group, so according to the Gentoo docs (thats 
what I'm using), a simple:

cd /usr/local/mailman/cron && crontab -u mailman crontab.in

should do it?

Thanks again!

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From mgrueter at aol.com  Mon Dec 10 21:00:12 2007
From: mgrueter at aol.com (Michael Grueter)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:00:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listinfo_url and optionsurl alternatives?
Message-ID: <EA99F7FF-9256-4030-86D0-F68D4BD740E4@aol.com>

The subscribeack.txt template file uses two variables that I would  
like to change:

1) %(listinfo_url)s produces the following URL:

http://hostname/mailman/listinfo/listname

where hostname is the generic host name for the mail server.

2) %(optionsurl)s produces a similar URL with the same generic hostname:

http://hostname/mailman/options/listname/username%40domain

Instead, I would like Mailman to use the custom "host name this list  
prefers for email" as entered in the General Options page of the  
Administration web page. What variables would I use to do this?

I looked through the Whole Mailman FAQ, and have been searching  
through the archives for this list, but I have not found anything  
that seems relevant. I'm running Mailman 2.1.5 on Mac OS X Server  
10.4.10.

Thanks,

- Mike

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec 10 22:10:03 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:10:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listinfo_url and optionsurl alternatives?
In-Reply-To: <EA99F7FF-9256-4030-86D0-F68D4BD740E4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020071210131003071870e9e4f1@msapiro>

Michael Grueter wrote:

>The subscribeack.txt template file uses two variables that I would  
>like to change:
>
>1) %(listinfo_url)s produces the following URL:
>
>http://hostname/mailman/listinfo/listname
>
>where hostname is the generic host name for the mail server.
>
>2) %(optionsurl)s produces a similar URL with the same generic hostname:
>
>http://hostname/mailman/options/listname/username%40domain
>
>Instead, I would like Mailman to use the custom "host name this list  
>prefers for email" as entered in the General Options page of the  
>Administration web page. What variables would I use to do this?

%(host_name)s is exactly that.

If you want to make a url, you would need something like

http://%(host_name)s/mailman/listinfo/listname

or

http://%(host_name)s/mailman/options/listname/%(user)s

although if that's what you're trying to do, your Mailman and/or your
list is not properly configured.

If you have the appropriate add_virtualhost() directives in mm_cfg.py
for this host and you have run fix_url if necessary to give the list
the correct web_page_url attribute, you should get the URL's you want
from the default template.

See some of the articles returned by
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=web_page_url&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From david at johmar.com  Tue Dec 11 02:25:55 2007
From: david at johmar.com (David Beaumont)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 01:25:55 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] forwarding messages from one list to another not as
	attachments
Message-ID: <008801c83b94$c6d203b0$415b9556@computername>

We need to forward moderated emails from one list to another more
appropriate list.  However they always arrive munged up, losing the
originators email address and with the text as an attachment.  I.e. looking
pretty crap.  This must be a common requirement however I can't find
anything in the FAQ and all I can find in the archives is this with no
answer:  

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg24118.html

I always get a quick reply to these queries often simply pointing to me to a
FAQ I have missed, I think it may be different this time! 

Thanks

David


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec 11 02:49:45 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:49:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] forwarding messages from one list to another
	not asattachments
In-Reply-To: <008801c83b94$c6d203b0$415b9556@computername>
Message-ID: <PC176020071210174945029670e9e375@msapiro>

David Beaumont wrote:

>We need to forward moderated emails from one list to another more
>appropriate list.  However they always arrive munged up, losing the
>originators email address and with the text as an attachment.  I.e. looking
>pretty crap.


FAQ 3.9
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.009.htp>
addresses a slightly different issue, but the techniques described
there will work just as well for bouncing a message to another list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Dec 11 03:04:52 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 20:04:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] forwarding messages from one list to another
 not asattachments
In-Reply-To: <PC176020071210174945029670e9e375@msapiro>
References: <PC176020071210174945029670e9e375@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240808c383a07039b6@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/10/07, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  FAQ 3.9
>  <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.009.htp>
>  addresses a slightly different issue, but the techniques described
>  there will work just as well for bouncing a message to another list.

Don't forget FAQ 4.39 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp>, 
which addresses the problems of HTML-formatted messages and what 
happens to them when you start stripping or flattening content, or 
adding footers, etc....

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mikaelhansen2 at comcast.net  Tue Dec 11 03:10:52 2007
From: mikaelhansen2 at comcast.net (Mikael Hansen)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:10:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-member post confirmation
Message-ID: <E9AB24D4-B0DB-4631-B3F9-AFE9E9146244@comcast.net>

Hello,

I was reading a thread from 2003 with just this subject line.

However, I don't see the feature implemented. Was it not done?

Mikael


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec 11 03:31:48 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:31:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-member post confirmation
In-Reply-To: <E9AB24D4-B0DB-4631-B3F9-AFE9E9146244@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020071210183148018770e9e30b@msapiro>

Mikael Hansen wrote:
>
>I was reading a thread from 2003 with just this subject line.
>
>However, I don't see the feature implemented. Was it not done?


Right. It hasn't been done.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From david at johmar.com  Tue Dec 11 03:32:40 2007
From: david at johmar.com (David Beaumont)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 02:32:40 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] forwarding messages from one list to another
	not asattachments
In-Reply-To: <PC176020071210174945029670e9e375@msapiro>
References: <008801c83b94$c6d203b0$415b9556@computername>
	<PC176020071210174945029670e9e375@msapiro>
Message-ID: <000001c83b9e$1a205fe0$415b9556@computername>

yes thanks that is one FAQ I had read, with a slight amount of horror.  The
first suggestion is surely much too cumbersome for regular use, I take it
the 'Voila' is ironic. The second suggestion I could live with except that I
don't have server shell access and anyway it would not fix our particular
problem. 

thanks

David 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
> Sent: 11 December 2007 01:50
> To: David Beaumont; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] forwarding messages from one 
> list to another not asattachments
> 
> David Beaumont wrote:
> 
> >We need to forward moderated emails from one list to another more 
> >appropriate list.  However they always arrive munged up, losing the 
> >originators email address and with the text as an attachment.  I.e. 
> >looking pretty crap.
> 
> 
> FAQ 3.9
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.009.htp>
> addresses a slightly different issue, but the techniques 
> described there will work just as well for bouncing a message 
> to another list.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 


From david at johmar.com  Tue Dec 11 03:32:40 2007
From: david at johmar.com (David Beaumont)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 02:32:40 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] forwarding messages from one list to another
	not asattachments
In-Reply-To: <p06240808c383a07039b6@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <PC176020071210174945029670e9e375@msapiro>
	<p06240808c383a07039b6@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <000101c83b9e$1b4f1be0$415b9556@computername>

Thanks but I don't think that is relevant as the original messages are in
plain text format, I have checked. 

David  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad Knowles 
> Don't forget FAQ 4.39 at
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.
> 039.htp>,
> which addresses the problems of HTML-formatted messages and 
> what happens to them when you start stripping or flattening 
> content, or adding footers, etc....
> 
> 


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Dec 11 04:13:20 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 21:13:20 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] forwarding messages from one list to another
 not asattachments
In-Reply-To: <000101c83b9e$1b4f1be0$415b9556@computername>
References: <PC176020071210174945029670e9e375@msapiro>
	<p06240808c383a07039b6@[192.168.1.101]>
	<000101c83b9e$1b4f1be0$415b9556@computername>
Message-ID: <p06240801c383b05cf4f9@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/11/07, David Beaumont wrote:

>  Thanks but I don't think that is relevant as the original messages are in
>  plain text format, I have checked.

Your description of:

	We need to forward moderated emails from one list to another
	more appropriate list.  However they always arrive munged up,
	losing the originators email address and with the text as an
	attachment.  I.e. looking pretty crap.

Sounds exactly like the problem I was referring to.

And this doesn't have anything to do with text versus HTML 
formatting, it has to do with MIME formatting and things like what 
you perceive to be an "attachment".  This is explained in some detail 
within the FAQ entry I referenced.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From david.hooton at platformnetworks.net  Mon Dec 10 08:38:37 2007
From: david.hooton at platformnetworks.net (David Hooton)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:38:37 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Phantom Moderator Requests
Message-ID: <2D5263A9F1AEF744A8D900DE8A1799DF082985@wiggum.syd01.office.plat.net.au.local>

Hi All,

We have a mailman install which keeps sending phantom moderator requests,
when we login to the admin interface there are no messages awaiting
moderation.  Can anyone tell me where the reminder script is seeing these
messages and why the admin interface isn't seeing them?

Cheers!

David

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec 11 07:06:46 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 22:06:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Phantom Moderator Requests
In-Reply-To: <2D5263A9F1AEF744A8D900DE8A1799DF082985@wiggum.syd01.office.plat.net.au.local>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712102206460921cb605287@msapiro>

David Hooton wrote:
>
>We have a mailman install which keeps sending phantom moderator requests,
>when we login to the admin interface there are no messages awaiting
>moderation.  Can anyone tell me where the reminder script is seeing these
>messages and why the admin interface isn't seeing them?


You have a crontab from an old/test/replaced/?? Mailman install that
has a list somewhere with outstanding requests.

Check your crontabs. Also try (as root)

  find / -name config.pck -print

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cyndi at tikvah.com  Tue Dec 11 09:27:19 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 00:27:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Processing Emails
Message-ID: <200712110827.lBB8RJTQ012758@a.mail.sonic.net>

Because of excessive spam, I've done what so many of us have had to do, I
set the catch-all on my domain name not to go to my inbox.  I have a few
dozen legit usernames set to come to me.  Because some non-spam slips
through, I send the leftover usernames to another mailbox I read
irregularly (the spam assasin program catches about 3000 spams a day to
that mailbox, leaving me with a handful a week to sort through).

Now that my main lists were migrated to Mailman today, I discovered that
notifications of bounces are being sent to my catch-all mailbox.  For some
reason, MM makes up a To: address.

Here's an example:
immune-bounces+immune=cunews.carleton.ca at immuneweb.org

The email address of the subscriber whose email bounced is:
immune at cunews.carleton.ca

My domain name is immuneweb.org and the name of the list is immune.

Obviously, I can't make email filters for every single one of my
subscribers.  But I'd like to see the bounce messages.

Is there a way to get MM to simply send the bounces to an address I
specify, or just to the list-owner which is specified elsewhere?

Thanks,
Cyndi


From david at johmar.com  Tue Dec 11 09:56:52 2007
From: david at johmar.com (David Beaumont)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:56:52 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] forwarding messages from one list to another
	not asattachments
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c383b05cf4f9@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <PC176020071210174945029670e9e375@msapiro>
	<p06240808c383a07039b6@[192.168.1.101]>
	<000101c83b9e$1b4f1be0$415b9556@computername>
	<p06240801c383b05cf4f9@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <000301c83bd3$c6cd2310$f4118556@computername>

I should have added that not only are the original messages plain text but
the list is configured to convert text/html parts to plain text. Isn't this
proposed solution number 2 in the FAQ
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp ? It
doesn't work for us. 

Where do I configure proposed solution no. 1 and what is a 'MUA' referred to
in solution 3?  Maybe I could try those as well.  We are already trying
solution 4 which I have to say works perfectly.

Thanks

David
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad Knowles 
...
> Your description of:
> 
> 	We need to forward moderated emails from one list to another
> 	more appropriate list.  However they always arrive munged up,
> 	losing the originators email address and with the text as an
> 	attachment.  I.e. looking pretty crap.
> 
> Sounds exactly like the problem I was referring to.
> 
> And this doesn't have anything to do with text versus HTML 
> formatting, it has to do with MIME formatting and things like 
> what you perceive to be an "attachment".  This is explained 
> in some detail within the FAQ entry I referenced.
> 
> --
> Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From pkey at sgul.ac.uk  Tue Dec 11 15:14:10 2007
From: pkey at sgul.ac.uk (Paul Key)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:14:10 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shunting & unknown encoding question
Message-ID: <475E9B32.5010400@sgul.ac.uk>

MM 2.1.3
Solaris 9

I have had an email shunted and am not sure why - any ideas why the encoding is unknown?

Dec 11 11:43:42 2007 (24788) Uncaught runner exception: unknown encoding: unknown
Dec 11 11:43:42 2007 (24788) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 110, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 160, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 75, in process
    prefix_subject(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 262, in prefix_subject
    h.append(s, c)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Header.py", line 285, in append
    s = s.encode(outcodec, errors)
LookupError: unknown encoding: unknown

Dec 11 11:43:42 2007 (24788) SHUNTING: 1197373305.4631159+54681260563e1d1577b352329843c2fa738ba81


Thanks

Paul


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Dec 11 15:28:59 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:28:59 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] forwarding messages from one list to another
 not asattachments
In-Reply-To: <000301c83bd3$c6cd2310$f4118556@computername>
References: <PC176020071210174945029670e9e375@msapiro>
	<p06240808c383a07039b6@[192.168.1.101]>
	<000101c83b9e$1b4f1be0$415b9556@computername>
	<p06240801c383b05cf4f9@[192.168.1.101]>
	<000301c83bd3$c6cd2310$f4118556@computername>
Message-ID: <p06240800c3844e0feb4e@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/11/07, David Beaumont wrote:

>  I should have added that not only are the original messages plain text but
>  the list is configured to convert text/html parts to plain text.

Plain text or not for the main message body, you may still have other 
bodyparts that are in other MIME formats, and you could potentially 
be stripping them, or you could allow them through.  If you do allow 
them through, then adding footers to your outgoing messages may cause 
your "plain text" format message to get encapsulated into a MIME 
multi-part/related type, which may be displayed in your MUA in a 
manner that is not palatable.

>                                                                    Isn't this
>  proposed solution number 2 in the FAQ
>  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp ? It
>  doesn't work for us.

Are you sure you're stripping all possible MIME bodypart types that 
might be interfering with the mail, and not just converting only the 
text/html parts into plain text and leaving the rest alone?

>  Where do I configure proposed solution no. 1 and what is a 'MUA' referred to
>  in solution 3?  Maybe I could try those as well.  We are already trying
>  solution 4 which I have to say works perfectly.

An MUA is a Mail User Agent.  In your case, the X-Mailer: header in 
your message says that you're using "Microsoft Office Outlook 11" as 
your MUA.  In my case, my MUA is Eudora.  There are plenty of other 
options available.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Dec 11 15:36:32 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:36:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Processing Emails
In-Reply-To: <200712110827.lBB8RJTQ012758@a.mail.sonic.net>
References: <200712110827.lBB8RJTQ012758@a.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3844f4d35df@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/11/07, Cyndi Norwitz wrote:

>  Now that my main lists were migrated to Mailman today, I discovered that
>  notifications of bounces are being sent to my catch-all mailbox.  For some
>  reason, MM makes up a To: address.
>
>  Here's an example:
>  immune-bounces+immune=cunews.carleton.ca at immuneweb.org

No, Mailman is not making up this address as a "To:" address.  This 
is an address format known as VERP (search the FAQ Wizard), and this 
is used as the envelope sender address for when you're sending out 
messages from the mailing list known as "immune" to the recipient 
address "immune at cunews.carleton.ca".  What appears to be happening is 
that this recipient address is bouncing, thus causing a bounce 
(a.k.a., "non-delivery notice", or NDN) to be sent back to this VERP 
sender address.

If your MTA understands the VERP format correctly, it should be 
passing back everything with an address of 
"immune-bounces+[insert.whatever.here]@immuneweb.org" back to your 
Mailman installation, where the standard Mailman bounce handling 
mechanism should take care of this problem.

>  Obviously, I can't make email filters for every single one of my
>  subscribers.  But I'd like to see the bounce messages.

Generally speaking, you should let Mailman handle the bounces 
messages automatically.

>  Is there a way to get MM to simply send the bounces to an address I
>  specify, or just to the list-owner which is specified elsewhere?

That's an option you can take, if you decide to omit all the other 
standard aliases that need to be created for Mailman.  You could just 
have all that traffic come back to you directly.


However, your bigger problem is that your ISP needs to configure 
their MTA (postfix, sendmail, whatever) to properly understand VERP 
format so that you have the possibility of having these bounces sent 
back to wherever you want.  Until the MTA is configured properly, and 
the aliases are set up properly, there's nothing else you can do.

It all comes down to your ISP understanding how to operate and manage 
Mailman correctly, as well as understanding how to operate and manage 
all the related parts of an e-mail system.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From pkey at sgul.ac.uk  Tue Dec 11 16:08:20 2007
From: pkey at sgul.ac.uk (Paul Key)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:08:20 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives not showing complete email message
Message-ID: <475EA7E4.1040308@sgul.ac.uk>

Hi

I am also getting the following where the body of an email should be in 
the list archives:

Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part 
--------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 4631 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : 
http://<server-name>/mailman/private/sgul-students/attachments/20071210/bb270a69/attachment.jpg 
<http://mailman.sghms.ac.uk/mailman/private/sgul-students/attachments/20071210/bb270a69/attachment.jpg>

The URL actually works and links to a small corporate JPEG conatined in 
the email.

I have seen the thread "Mailman and UTF8" in the mailman-users archive 
but couldn't fathom an answer and not sure about applying the patch.

Is there anyway of getting list messages such as this to appear readable 
in the list archives?

Thanks

paul


From david at johmar.com  Tue Dec 11 16:45:25 2007
From: david at johmar.com (David Beaumont)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:45:25 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] forwarding messages from one list to another
	not asattachments
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c3844e0feb4e@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <PC176020071210174945029670e9e375@msapiro>
	<p06240808c383a07039b6@[192.168.1.101]>
	<000101c83b9e$1b4f1be0$415b9556@computername>
	<p06240801c383b05cf4f9@[192.168.1.101]>
	<000301c83bd3$c6cd2310$f4118556@computername>
	<p06240800c3844e0feb4e@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <005f01c83c0c$d9498f90$f4118556@computername>

I'm getting confused.  To clarify, in Mailman 2.1.8 content filtering terms:
we are 'filtering the content' , 
we are not 'removing message attachments that have a matching content type' 
we are 'removing message attachments that don't match multipart/mixed,
multipart/alternative or text/plain', 
we are removing message attachments that match exe, bat, cmd,
com,pif,scr,vbs,cpl ', 
we are 'collapsing multipart/alternative to its first part content', 
we are converting text/html parts to plain text.  

is that solution 2?  By the way I still don't know how to configure solution
1.  

thanks for your time

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at shub-internet.org] 
> Sent: 11 December 2007 14:29
> To: David Beaumont; 'Brad Knowles'; 'Mark Sapiro'; 
> mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] forwarding messages from one 
> list to another not asattachments
> 
> On 12/11/07, David Beaumont wrote:
> 
> >  I should have added that not only are the original messages plain 
> > text but  the list is configured to convert text/html parts 
> to plain text.
> 
> Plain text or not for the main message body, you may still 
> have other bodyparts that are in other MIME formats, and you 
> could potentially be stripping them, or you could allow them 
> through.  If you do allow them through, then adding footers 
> to your outgoing messages may cause your "plain text" format 
> message to get encapsulated into a MIME multi-part/related 
> type, which may be displayed in your MUA in a manner that is 
> not palatable.
> 
> >                                                                    
> > Isn't this  proposed solution number 2 in the FAQ  
> > 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.0
> 39.htp ? 
> > It  doesn't work for us.
> 
> Are you sure you're stripping all possible MIME bodypart 
> types that might be interfering with the mail, and not just 
> converting only the text/html parts into plain text and 
> leaving the rest alone?
> 
> >  Where do I configure proposed solution no. 1 and what is a 'MUA' 
> > referred to  in solution 3?  Maybe I could try those as 
> well.  We are 
> > already trying  solution 4 which I have to say works perfectly.
> 
> An MUA is a Mail User Agent.  In your case, the X-Mailer: 
> header in your message says that you're using "Microsoft 
> Office Outlook 11" as your MUA.  In my case, my MUA is 
> Eudora.  There are plenty of other options available.
> 
> --
> Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec 11 18:41:13 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:41:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] forwarding messages from one list to another
	not asattachments
In-Reply-To: <005f01c83c0c$d9498f90$f4118556@computername>
Message-ID: <PC176020071211094113009334d2fdca@msapiro>

David Beaumont wrote:

>I'm getting confused.  To clarify, in Mailman 2.1.8 content filtering terms:
>we are 'filtering the content' , 
>we are not 'removing message attachments that have a matching content type' 
>we are 'removing message attachments that don't match multipart/mixed,
>multipart/alternative or text/plain', 
>we are removing message attachments that match exe, bat, cmd,
>com,pif,scr,vbs,cpl ', 
>we are 'collapsing multipart/alternative to its first part content', 
>we are converting text/html parts to plain text.  



We're all getting a bit confused.  First of all, Bard's referring to
multipart mime is correct and is really the crux of the issue, but FAQ
4.39 isn't really helpful in this case.

What is happening is there are two ways to get at the original message
short of accessing it directly on the server. The first is if
admin_immed_notify is Yes, the message is included in the notice to
the admin. The second is to 'forward' the message from the web admindb
interface.

In the first of these cases, the original message is an 'attachment'
(i.e. a MIME message/rfc822 part) to the message sent/received. A
'forwarded' message is a bit trickier. Concentrating on that for a
moment, the message contains the original message as a message/rfc822
body type. This is done to preserve the headers of the original
message.

In other words, the original message is forwarded something like an
attachment, but there is only one 'attached' part and it is the
message/rfc822 original message.

Thus, you can simply forward the message from the admindb interface to
another list, but the receiving list must accept content of type
message/rfc822

So you can add 'message/rfc822' to pass_mime_types.

Then your issue is when you forward the post to list_2, it will be from
'list_1-bounces at example.com' instead of the original sender, and it
will have subject "Forward of moderated message" instead of the
original subject so this really isn't a satisfactory option. What you
really want is the ability to 'bounce' or 'resend' the message from
the admindb interface to anothe address, but this ability doesn't
exist.

So then the alternative is to forward the message to yourself, or just
use the original held message notice if you got one, open that message
with a sufficiently mime capable MUA (mail user agent, aka mail
client), select the part which is the original message and resend that
to list_2. With an MUA such as Mutt for example, this is fairly easy.
With Outlook, it may be impossible.


One final note. With your content filtering settings, converting HTML
to plain text won't happen. If you want to accept an HTML only message
and convert it to plain text, you have to add text/html to
pass_mime_types.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jason at funnel.ca  Tue Dec 11 18:51:42 2007
From: jason at funnel.ca (Jason Bell)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:51:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Technical question
Message-ID: <C384385E.1CD7%jason@funnel.ca>

The Mailman lists that I have setup send messages to my membership with the
words "-bounces" added to the listserv e-mail address. Is there a way to
modify "-bounces" to something else like "-members"?

Please advise.

Thank you
Jason  Bell
Funnel Communications Inc.
296 Jarvis Street Unit 7
Toronto ON M5B 2C5
416-968-7979
jason at funnel.ca

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
  
The information in this e-mail  message (including its attachments) is
CONFIDENTIAL and may be legally  privileged. It is intended solely for the
addressee. Access to this message by  anyone else is unauthorized. If you
are not the intended recipient, notify the  sender by return e-mail and
delete this message from your system. Any  disclosure, copying, or
distribution of the message, or any action or omission  taken by an
unauthorized recipient in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be
unlawful. Our Company does not guarantee that this communication is free of
viruses, interceptions or interference, and does not endorse the sender's
personal views.



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Dec 11 19:43:25 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:43:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Technical question
In-Reply-To: <C384385E.1CD7%jason@funnel.ca>
References: <C384385E.1CD7%jason@funnel.ca>
Message-ID: <200712111832.lBBIVd1F001566@unreal.eroded.org>

Jason Bell wrote:
>The Mailman lists that I have setup send messages to my membership with the
>words "-bounces" added to the listserv e-mail address. Is there a way to
>modify "-bounces" to something else like "-members"?
>
>Please advise.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

The lists are set up that way to allow for bounced messages to be 
sent back to Mailman for proper processing and not to the original 
sender (poster) of the message. I suppose you could change the MTA 
alias used to members instead of bounces but that would really serve 
no useful purpose and would obscure the fact that the address is used 
as bounce processing address.

However, it may not be as simple as just changing an alias depending 
on what MTA you are using and how Mailman is set up.

I'd really suggest just leaving it alone.



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec 11 19:55:12 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:55:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shunting & unknown encoding question
In-Reply-To: <475E9B32.5010400@sgul.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712111055120671e9df710b@msapiro>

Paul Key wrote:
>
>I have had an email shunted and am not sure why - any ideas why the encoding is unknown?
>
>Dec 11 11:43:42 2007 (24788) Uncaught runner exception: unknown encoding: unknown
>Dec 11 11:43:42 2007 (24788) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 110, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 160, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 75, in process
>    prefix_subject(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 262, in prefix_subject
>    h.append(s, c)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Header.py", line 285, in append
>    s = s.encode(outcodec, errors)
>LookupError: unknown encoding: unknown
>
>Dec 11 11:43:42 2007 (24788) SHUNTING: 1197373305.4631159+54681260563e1d1577b352329843c2fa738ba81

Look at the message (bin/show_qfiles
qfiles/shunt/1197373305.4631159+54681260563e1d1577b352329843c2fa738ba81.pck).

I think you will see an RFC 2047 encoded Subject: header. I.e.
something like

 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?this=20is=20some=20text?=

except the characterset instead of being like the "iso-8859-1" in this
case, will literally be "unknown".

Some MUAs will create such an encoding with character set "unknown" or
"unknown-8bit" when the subject contains 8bit characters and the MUA
doesn't have a context to know what the character set is.

If this is a recent Mailman, about a dozen lines into the definition of
process() in Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py you will see

    if not msgdata.get('isdigest') and not fasttrack:
        try:
            prefix_subject(mlist, msg, msgdata)
        except (UnicodeError, ValueError):
            # TK: Sometimes subject header is not MIME encoded for 8bit
            # simply abort prefixing.
            pass

If you change the 'except' to

        except (UnicodeError, ValueError, LookupError):

and restart Mailman, you can unshunt the message and it will be
processed without prefixing the subject.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From phanh at canby.k12.or.us  Tue Dec 11 19:43:10 2007
From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:43:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman HTML text format
Message-ID: <E6E1BC5D-23B6-4F9D-BB78-EEED62F6F77C@canby.k12.or.us>

Hi,

Mailman default setting is to converted all HTML to plain text;  
however, our users would like to send out messages with text format.  
We changed the Content Filtering settings to:
Should Mailman filter the content of list traffic: Yes
Remove message attachments that don't have a matching content type:  
multipart/mixed, multipart/alternative, text/plain, html
Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text: No

The list still removes the text format even with these settings. Am I  
missing a setting?

Thank you,


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec 11 20:21:14 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:21:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Technical question
In-Reply-To: <200712111832.lBBIVd1F001566@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712111121140843366731b9@msapiro>

Dragon wrote:

>Jason Bell wrote:
>>The Mailman lists that I have setup send messages to my membership with the
>>words "-bounces" added to the listserv e-mail address. Is there a way to
>>modify "-bounces" to something else like "-members"?
>>
>>Please advise.
>---------------- End original message. ---------------------
>
>The lists are set up that way to allow for bounced messages to be 
>sent back to Mailman for proper processing and not to the original 
>sender (poster) of the message. I suppose you could change the MTA 
>alias used to members instead of bounces but that would really serve 
>no useful purpose and would obscure the fact that the address is used 
>as bounce processing address.
>
>However, it may not be as simple as just changing an alias depending 
>on what MTA you are using and how Mailman is set up.
>
>I'd really suggest just leaving it alone.


Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec 11 20:25:53 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:25:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman HTML text format
In-Reply-To: <E6E1BC5D-23B6-4F9D-BB78-EEED62F6F77C@canby.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712111125530171864959e0@msapiro>

Hung Phan wrote:
>
>Mailman default setting is to converted all HTML to plain text;  
>however, our users would like to send out messages with text format.  
>We changed the Content Filtering settings to:
>Should Mailman filter the content of list traffic: Yes
>Remove message attachments that don't have a matching content type:  
>multipart/mixed, multipart/alternative, text/plain, html


That should be text/html, not just html. Also, you probably want to set
collapse_alternatives to No

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec 11 20:36:52 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:36:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives not showing complete email message
In-Reply-To: <475EA7E4.1040308@sgul.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC176020071211113652037586495aab@msapiro>

Paul Key wrote:
>
>I am also getting the following where the body of an email should be in 
>the list archives:
>
>Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part 
>--------------
>A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>Name: not available
>Type: image/jpeg
>Size: 4631 bytes
>Desc: not available
>Url : 
>http://<server-name>/mailman/private/sgul-students/attachments/20071210/bb270a69/attachment.jpg 
>
>The URL actually works and links to a small corporate JPEG conatined in 
>the email.
>
>I have seen the thread "Mailman and UTF8" in the mailman-users archive 
>but couldn't fathom an answer and not sure about applying the patch.
>
>Is there anyway of getting list messages such as this to appear readable 
>in the list archives?


This may be a bug, or it may be a defective message. In any case, I
would like to see the message.

Please do the following:

Look at the archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file and find
the message. Copy the entire message from the .mbox file. If you wish
to elid the actual body parts except for a line or two, that's OK, but
keep all message headers and boundaries and sub-part headers intact.

Then either post that raw message text here or send it to me off list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jason at funnel.ca  Tue Dec 11 20:42:00 2007
From: jason at funnel.ca (Jason Bell)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:42:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Technical question
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712111121140843366731b9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C3845238.1CFE%jason@funnel.ca>

Thank you for your assistance folks. :)

Happy Holidays!
Jason  Bell
Funnel Communications Inc.
296 Jarvis Street Unit 7
Toronto ON M5B 2C5
416-968-7979
jason at funnel.ca

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viruses, interceptions or interference, and does not endorse the sender's
personal views.



> From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
> Organization: Not Very Much
> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:21:14 -0800
> To: Dragon <dragon at crimson-dragon.com>, mailman mailing list
> <mailman-users at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Technical question
> 
> Dragon wrote:
> 
>> Jason Bell wrote:
>>> The Mailman lists that I have setup send messages to my membership with the
>>> words "-bounces" added to the listserv e-mail address. Is there a way to
>>> modify "-bounces" to something else like "-members"?
>>> 
>>> Please advise.
>> ---------------- End original message. ---------------------
>> 
>> The lists are set up that way to allow for bounced messages to be
>> sent back to Mailman for proper processing and not to the original
>> sender (poster) of the message. I suppose you could change the MTA
>> alias used to members instead of bounces but that would really serve
>> no useful purpose and would obscure the fact that the address is used
>> as bounce processing address.
>> 
>> However, it may not be as simple as just changing an alias depending
>> on what MTA you are using and how Mailman is set up.
>> 
>> I'd really suggest just leaving it alone.
> 
> 
> Also see
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jason%40funnel.ca
> 
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec 11 21:49:14 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:49:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shunting & unknown encoding question
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712111055120671e9df710b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC176020071211124914060982d98d4f@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>Look at the message (bin/show_qfiles
>qfiles/shunt/1197373305.4631159+54681260563e1d1577b352329843c2fa738ba81.pck).
>
>I think you will see an RFC 2047 encoded Subject: header. I.e.
>something like
>
> Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?this=20is=20some=20text?=
>
>except the characterset instead of being like the "iso-8859-1" in this
>case, will literally be "unknown".


I am unable to duplicate this error in current Mailman with a simple
test. Please send me the full headers from the output from
bin/show_qfiles as above.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From php at argohost.net  Tue Dec 11 16:24:56 2007
From: php at argohost.net (Hermes PHP)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:24:56 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PHP Script for search archive
Message-ID: <01b801c83c09$fe658f20$fb30ad60$@net>

Hi,

 

Does anyone know of any script in PHP that look inside archives of the list?

 

The archives of the list are private.

 

 

Solution in phyton or perl not serve to me, has to be in PHP

 

 

Att,

'? um orgulho ter voc? como nosso cliente'

____________________________ 
Hermes Alves
Gerente TI
 
ArgoHost.net
Hospedagem Web com Facilidade
 <blocked::BLOCKED::http://www.argohost.net/> http://www.argohost.net
Suporte Telef?nico: (85) 3264 9944 / (11) 4063 4844 R. 102
E-mail:  <blocked::BLOCKED::mailto:suporte at argohost.net>
falecom at argohost.net

 

 


From ratnaweera at dplanet.ch  Wed Dec 12 12:03:35 2007
From: ratnaweera at dplanet.ch (Visvanath Ratnaweera)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:03:35 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Extracting e-mail addresses from a dead machine
Message-ID: <20071212110335.GA4617@mituru.zhaw.ch>

Hi all

This could also be a FAQ, sorry but I couldn't find the answer.

I have the data backup from a dead machine. The list is not moved
to a new server (yet). Therefore I have no running system of Mailman.

Is there a way of extracting the e-mail addresses from this (data)
backup?

regards
Visvanath

From rod at coate.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Dec 12 14:45:16 2007
From: rod at coate.fsnet.co.uk (Rod@freeserve)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:45:16 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce management and uncaught bounce notifications
Message-ID: <020301c83cc5$3b900fe0$0202a8c0@newbuild>

Hi

I've just upgraded to Mailman 2.1.9 from a much earlier installation.
One of the new features that puzzles me is the 'uncaught bounce notification'. I get these for out-of-office responses and for auto-replies. 

The auto-replies come from some artificial mailbox address.

The out-of-office responses will come either from an address on my list, or, where the address on my list is itself the address of a list on the remote system, from an individual address on the remote list. A few are addressed to <list>-admin at mydomain.net (as they used to be) and the majority to <list>-bounces at mydomain.net

I have some questions:

Q1    Why are they called 'uncaught' since they have clearly been sent to a Mailman address, and then neatly packaged up by Mailman and sent to me as list and/or site admin? Are they really just 'unrecognizable' possible bounces (as it says in the body of the Mailman email), or am I missing something?

Q2.    Have these responses also been sent to the sender of the message to which they are responses?  
(I don't see how they can have been, as there's nothing in most of the headers relating to the original message)

Q3    Are these responses causing the bounce count for the users to be increased?
(Again, I don't think that this can be the case, because they come back from a different address at the same domain, except possibly for the rare occasion where an out-of-office response comes back from an individual mailbox which is on my list)

Q4    How can I inspect users' bounce counts?

Q5    A small number of mailboxes were automatically set to nomail because of bouncing due to errors on my part (NB these were NOT the ones generating uncaught bounce messages). Mailman's behaviour in this case was reasonable, except (here's the important part) it did NOT send me a message about the suspension. But I have bounce_notify_owner_on_disable set to Yes and bounce_notify_owner_on_unsubscribe_set to Yes. (The same thing used to happen on the antique Mailman installation, but at least there I would get notifications most of the time). Where should I look to find out why these notifications are not reaching me? 

Q6    Again with regard to Q5: 
I've checked my aliases file and it looks OK. Exactly which role in <list>-<role>@mydomain.net should the notifications be coming to?

My main concern is actually Q5, because at present it looks like I need to audit all my mailing lists (more frequently than used to be the case) to check whether users are being dropped without me being notified. But I'd like to understand the other stuff too.

Rod



From peter at cww.org.uk  Wed Dec 12 16:14:54 2007
From: peter at cww.org.uk (Peter Edley)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:14:54 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PHP Script for search archive
In-Reply-To: <01b801c83c09$fe658f20$fb30ad60$@net>
References: <01b801c83c09$fe658f20$fb30ad60$@net>
Message-ID: <1197472494.6287.1.camel@pedley-laptop>

Not sure if there where any replies to this off list if so could you
please repost to the list since this is somthing I would be interested
in.


On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 12:24 -0300, Hermes PHP wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>  
> 
> Does anyone know of any script in PHP that look inside archives of the list?
> 
>  
> 
> The archives of the list are private.
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Solution in phyton or perl not serve to me, has to be in PHP
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Att,
> 
> '? um orgulho ter voc? como nosso cliente'
> 
> ____________________________ 
> Hermes Alves
> Gerente TI
>  
> ArgoHost.net
> Hospedagem Web com Facilidade
>  <blocked::BLOCKED::http://www.argohost.net/> http://www.argohost.net
> Suporte Telef?nico: (85) 3264 9944 / (11) 4063 4844 R. 102
> E-mail:  <blocked::BLOCKED::mailto:suporte at argohost.net>
> falecom at argohost.net
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/peter%40cww.org.uk
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Dec 12 16:48:10 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:48:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Extracting e-mail addresses from a dead machine
In-Reply-To: <20071212110335.GA4617@mituru.zhaw.ch>
Message-ID: <PC17602007121207481004531b66604f@msapiro>

Visvanath Ratnaweera wrote:
>
>I have the data backup from a dead machine. The list is not moved
>to a new server (yet). Therefore I have no running system of Mailman.
>
>Is there a way of extracting the e-mail addresses from this (data)
>backup?


The addresses are in Mailman's lists/<listname>/config.pck file on the
backup.  All the good ways of getting them require access to a Mailman
installation somewhere. Since you don't have that, you are left with
running 'strings config.pck' and sifting through the output for the
addresses.

If you did have access to a Mailman installation, you could run
Mailman's bin/dumpdb against the config.pck which would produce output
easier to deal with, or you could create a lists/<listname>/ directory
in that installation, put the config.pck in it and run
"bin/list_members -f -p <listname>"

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brian at emwd.com  Wed Dec 12 16:54:55 2007
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:54:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PHP Script for search archive
In-Reply-To: <1197472494.6287.1.camel@pedley-laptop>
References: <01b801c83c09$fe658f20$fb30ad60$@net>
	<1197472494.6287.1.camel@pedley-laptop>
Message-ID: <00a701c83cd7$58c79850$0a56c8f0$@com>

We have come up with a php script that provides a search function for mailman. It uses the sphyder search engine and requires a mysql database. The script comes with an installation feature that will automatically install sphyder and do the initial indexing of the archive. It works with both private and public archives. You will need a member subscription to the list in question if the archives are private. Once the installation is done then all that is needed is to run a cron job that indexes new posts into the mysql database.

The limitations to this script is that it requires a mysql db and can only be installed on a list by list basis. Also the search page is NOT integrated with archives. It is setup as a separate page outside of the mailing list archives however that has not been an issue with our clients. It can probably be integrated easy enough into your archives if you want.

If there is enough interest in this then I will make it a free download and perhaps someone can create a FAQ entry to the download. Just let me know.

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Peter Edley
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:15 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] PHP Script for search archive

Not sure if there where any replies to this off list if so could you
please repost to the list since this is somthing I would be interested
in.


On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 12:24 -0300, Hermes PHP wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>  
> 
> Does anyone know of any script in PHP that look inside archives of the list?
> 
>  
> 
> The archives of the list are private.
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Solution in phyton or perl not serve to me, has to be in PHP
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Att,
> 
> '? um orgulho ter voc? como nosso cliente'
> 
> ____________________________ 
> Hermes Alves
> Gerente TI
>  
> ArgoHost.net
> Hospedagem Web com Facilidade
>  <blocked::BLOCKED::http://www.argohost.net/> http://www.argohost.net
> Suporte Telef?nico: (85) 3264 9944 / (11) 4063 4844 R. 102
> E-mail:  <blocked::BLOCKED::mailto:suporte at argohost.net>
> falecom at argohost.net
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/peter%40cww.org.uk
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brian%40emwd.com

Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Wed Dec 12 17:18:35 2007
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:18:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PHP Script for search archive
In-Reply-To: <00a701c83cd7$58c79850$0a56c8f0$@com>
References: <01b801c83c09$fe658f20$fb30ad60$@net>	<1197472494.6287.1.camel@pedley-laptop>
	<00a701c83cd7$58c79850$0a56c8f0$@com>
Message-ID: <476009DB.10501@pauahtun.org>

Hi All--
Me!  Me!  Me!

;-)  I'm interested, very!

As part of my dedicated server from GoDaddy, which uses Plesk for an 
admin interface, a mysql DB is pre-installed.  How difficult is it for a 
DB neophyte to integrate with an existing setup like that?

Metta,
Ivan

Brian Carpenter wrote:
> We have come up with a php script that provides a search function for mailman. It uses the sphyder search engine and requires a mysql database. The script comes with an installation feature that will automatically install sphyder and do the initial indexing of the archive. It works with both private and public archives. You will need a member subscription to the list in question if the archives are private. Once the installation is done then all that is needed is to run a cron job that indexes new posts into the mysql database.
> The limitations to this script is that it requires a mysql db and can only be installed on a list by list basis. Also the search page is NOT integrated with archives. It is setup as a separate page outside of the mailing list archives however that has not been an issue with our clients. It can probably be integrated easy enough into your archives if you want.
> If there is enough interest in this then I will make it a free download and perhaps someone can create a FAQ entry to the download. Just let me know.
> Regards,Brian--------------------------------------EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
> -----Original Message-----From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Peter EdleySent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:15 AMTo: mailman-users at python.orgSubject: Re: [Mailman-Users] PHP Script for search archive
> Not sure if there where any replies to this off list if so could youplease repost to the list since this is somthing I would be interestedin.
> 
> On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 12:24 -0300, Hermes PHP wrote:> Hi,> >  > > Does anyone know of any script in PHP that look inside archives of the list?> >  > > The archives of the list are private.> >  > > > > Solution in phyton or perl not serve to me, has to be in PHP> >  > > > > Att,> > '? um orgulho ter voc? como nosso cliente'> > ____________________________ > Hermes Alves> Gerente TI>  > ArgoHost.net> Hospedagem Web com Facilidade>  <blocked::BLOCKED::http://www.argohost.net/> http://www.argohost.net> Suporte Telef?nico: (85) 3264 9944 / (11) 4063 4844 R. 102> E-mail:  <blocked::BLOCKED::mailto:suporte at argohost.net>> falecom at argohost.net> >  > > > > ------------------------------------------------------> Mailman-Users mailing list> Mailman-Users at python.org> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python
.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/peter%40cww.org.uk> > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> ------------------------------------------------------Mailman-Users mailing listMailman-Users at python.orghttp://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-usersMailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.pySearchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brian%40emwd.com
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> ------------------------------------------------------Mailman-Users mailing listMailman-Users at python.orghttp://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-usersMailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.pySearchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ivanlan%40pauahtun.org
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 

-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours


From mohamed.chaari at st.com  Wed Dec 12 17:18:22 2007
From: mohamed.chaari at st.com (Mohamed CHAARI)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:18:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PHP Script for search archive
In-Reply-To: <00a701c83cd7$58c79850$0a56c8f0$@com>
References: <01b801c83c09$fe658f20$fb30ad60$@net>	<1197472494.6287.1.camel@pedley-laptop>
	<00a701c83cd7$58c79850$0a56c8f0$@com>
Message-ID: <476009CE.6080808@st.com>

Brian Carpenter wrote:
> We have come up with a php script that provides a search function for mailman. It uses the sphyder search engine and requires a mysql database. The script comes with an installation feature that will automatically install sphyder and do the initial indexing of the archive. It works with both private and public archives. You will need a member subscription to the list in question if the archives are private. Once the installation is done then all that is needed is to run a cron job that indexes new posts into the mysql database.
> 
> The limitations to this script is that it requires a mysql db and can only be installed on a list by list basis. Also the search page is NOT integrated with archives. It is setup as a separate page outside of the mailing list archives however that has not been an issue with our clients. It can probably be integrated easy enough into your archives if you want.
> 
> If there is enough interest in this then I will make it a free download and perhaps someone can create a FAQ entry to the download. Just let me know.
> 
> Regards,
> Brian

Hello Brian,

I'm very interested in your solution.
Is it possible to use it ?

Thank you


-- 
---
--Mohamed CHAARI   (mailto:mohamed.chaari at st.com)

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Dec 12 17:22:23 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 08:22:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce management and uncaught bounce
	notifications
In-Reply-To: <020301c83cc5$3b900fe0$0202a8c0@newbuild>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712120822230718da5cb305@msapiro>

Rod at freeserve wrote:
>
>Q1    Why are they called 'uncaught' since they have clearly been sent to a Mailman address, and then neatly packaged up by Mailman and sent to me as list and/or site admin? Are they really just 'unrecognizable' possible bounces (as it says in the body of the Mailman email), or am I missing something?


No, you aren't missing anything. If
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner is Yes, any message received at
the listname-bounces address which is not recognized by Mailman as a
DSN is forwarded to the list owner as an unrecognized bounce since at
that point, Mailman doesn't know if it was an actual undeliverable
mail DSN or something else.
	

>Q2.    Have these responses also been sent to the sender of the message to which they are responses?  
>(I don't see how they can have been, as there's nothing in most of the headers relating to the original message)


No, they are only sent to the list owners and only if
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner is Yes.


>Q3    Are these responses causing the bounce count for the users to be increased?
>(Again, I don't think that this can be the case, because they come back from a different address at the same domain, except possibly for the rare occasion where an out-of-office response comes back from an individual mailbox which is on my list)


No. If Mailman could detect that it was an actual DSN regarding
non-delevery to a list member, then it wouldn't be 'unrecognized'.


>Q4    How can I inspect users' bounce counts?


Go to the admin membership list and click the user's name to go to the
user's options page. If the user has a non-zero bounce score, that
will be reported near the top of the options page.

Or, if you have access, look in Mailman's bounce log.


>Q5    A small number of mailboxes were automatically set to nomail because of bouncing due to errors on my part (NB these were NOT the ones generating uncaught bounce messages). Mailman's behaviour in this case was reasonable, except (here's the important part) it did NOT send me a message about the suspension. But I have bounce_notify_owner_on_disable set to Yes and bounce_notify_owner_on_unsubscribe_set to Yes. (The same thing used to happen on the antique Mailman installation, but at least there I would get notifications most of the time). Where should I look to find out why these notifications are not reaching me? 


Look in Mailman's bounce log to find the "disabling" entries. Then look
in Mailman's smtp log for entries at that time with message id's of
the form <mailman.nn.ttttt.ttt.listname at example.com>. nn is a sequence
number and ttttt.ttt is a time in seconds since the epoch.

There should be one message with sequence number x and two more with
sequence number x+1. The first is the message to the user. The second
is the message to listname-owner and the third is the resend of the
listname-owner message to the actual owner addresses. If you see
these, Mailman sent the notices. Beyond that, you have to look in your
MTA's logs.


>Q6    Again with regard to Q5: 
>I've checked my aliases file and it looks OK. Exactly which role in <list>-<role>@mydomain.net should the notifications be coming to?


They go to list-owner and are then resent to the list's owner (and
moderator) addresses.


>My main concern is actually Q5, because at present it looks like I need to audit all my mailing lists (more frequently than used to be the case) to check whether users are being dropped without me being notified. But I'd like to understand the other stuff too.


The listname-owner address needs to work. You can test it by just
mailing to listname-owner to see if you receive the mail. The fact
that you receive some notices is not definitive. Some owner notices
are relayed through listname-owner and some are sent to the owners
directly.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From srb at umich.edu  Wed Dec 12 17:22:00 2007
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:22:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit destination
Message-ID: <8CA8B2D4472C337FC4DA30AC@srb.local>

One of our lists has someone post to it whose mail is held, with the error:

Blind carbon copies or other implicit destinations are not allowed. Try
reposting your message by explicitly including the list address in the
To: or Cc: fields.

But as near as I can tell, she *is* putting the list address in the To: 
field, it's just been munged (presumably by Micro$oft LookOut) to have 
quotes in funny places.  Here's what the To: field looks like from the 
listname.mbox file (edited to protect the innocent):

To: "list at icpsr.umich.edu" <'list at icpsr.umich.edu'>

Are those unnecessary single quotes inside the "<...>" confusing Mailman? 
Or am I missing something really obvious?

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From rpyne at kinfolk.org  Wed Dec 12 17:42:16 2007
From: rpyne at kinfolk.org (Richard Pyne)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:42:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PHP Script for search archive
In-Reply-To: <00a701c83cd7$58c79850$0a56c8f0$@com>
References: <01b801c83c09$fe658f20$fb30ad60$@net>,
	<1197472494.6287.1.camel@pedley-laptop>,
	<00a701c83cd7$58c79850$0a56c8f0$@com>
Message-ID: <475FACF8.29903.17704E@rpyne.kinfolk.org>

Definitely interested.

Thanks.

--Richard

On 12 Dec 2007 at 10:54, Brian Carpenter wrote:

> We have come up with a php script that provides a search function for mailman. It uses the sphyder search engine and requires a mysql database. The script comes with an installation feature that will automatically install sphyder and do the initial indexing of the archive. It works with both private and public archives. You will need a member subscription to the list in question if the archives are private. Once the installation is done then all that is needed is to run a cron job that indexes new posts into the mysql database.
> 
> The limitations to this script is that it requires a mysql db and can only be installed on a list by list basis. Also the search page is NOT integrated with archives. It is setup as a separate page outside of the mailing list archives however that has not been an issue with our clients. It can probably be integrated easy enough into your archives if you want.
> 
> If there is enough interest in this then I will make it a free download and perhaps someone can create a FAQ entry to the download. Just let me know.
> 
> Regards,
> Brian
> --------------------------------------
> EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Peter Edley
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:15 AM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] PHP Script for search archive
> 
> Not sure if there where any replies to this off list if so could you
> please repost to the list since this is somthing I would be interested
> in.
> 
> 
> On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 12:24 -0300, Hermes PHP wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Does anyone know of any script in PHP that look inside archives of the list?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > The archives of the list are private.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Solution in phyton or perl not serve to me, has to be in PHP
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Att,
> > 
> > '? um orgulho ter voc? como nosso cliente'
> > 
> > ____________________________ 
> > Hermes Alves
> > Gerente TI
> >  
> > ArgoHost.net
> > Hospedagem Web com Facilidade
> >  <blocked::BLOCKED::http://www.argohost.net/> http://www.argohost.net
> > Suporte Telef?nico: (85) 3264 9944 / (11) 4063 4844 R. 102
> > E-mail:  <blocked::BLOCKED::mailto:suporte at argohost.net>
> > falecom at argohost.net
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/peter%40cww.org.uk
> > 
> > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brian%40emwd.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rpyne%40kinfolk.org
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Dec 12 18:02:09 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:02:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit destination
In-Reply-To: <8CA8B2D4472C337FC4DA30AC@srb.local>
Message-ID: <PC17602007121209020906564e7f0d19@msapiro>

Steve Burling wrote:
>
>But as near as I can tell, she *is* putting the list address in the To: 
>field, it's just been munged (presumably by Micro$oft LookOut) to have 
>quotes in funny places.  Here's what the To: field looks like from the 
>listname.mbox file (edited to protect the innocent):
>
>To: "list at icpsr.umich.edu" <'list at icpsr.umich.edu'>
>
>Are those unnecessary single quotes inside the "<...>" confusing Mailman? 


Python's email.Utils.parseaddr() returns the single quotes as part of
the address.

I hate to be in a position of defending LookOut, but are you sure she
doesn't have the quoted address in her address book entry?

If this can't be fixed at her end, you could put the quoted address in
the list's acceptable_aliases.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brian at emwd.com  Wed Dec 12 19:33:10 2007
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:33:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PHP Script for search archive
In-Reply-To: <476009DB.10501@pauahtun.org>
References: <01b801c83c09$fe658f20$fb30ad60$@net>	<1197472494.6287.1.camel@pedley-laptop>
	<00a701c83cd7$58c79850$0a56c8f0$@com> <476009DB.10501@pauahtun.org>
Message-ID: <002601c83ced$73fceb50$5bf6c1f0$@com>

All you do is just follow the on screen instructions. You will need to make sure you create a database and a database user that is setup to access the database. You will need the following information to properly setup sphyder:

database name:
database username:
database password:

You can download the script at the following location:

http://www.emwd.com/download/searchable_archives.tar.bz2

If anyone improves it then please let me know.

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'


-----Original Message-----
From: Ivan Van Laningham [mailto:ivanlan at pauahtun.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 11:19 AM
To: Brian Carpenter; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] PHP Script for search archive

Hi All--
Me!  Me!  Me!

;-)  I'm interested, very!

As part of my dedicated server from GoDaddy, which uses Plesk for an 
admin interface, a mysql DB is pre-installed.  How difficult is it for a 
DB neophyte to integrate with an existing setup like that?

Metta,
Ivan

Brian Carpenter wrote:
> We have come up with a php script that provides a search function for mailman. It uses the sphyder search engine and requires a mysql database. The script comes with an installation feature that will automatically install sphyder and do the initial indexing of the archive. It works with both private and public archives. You will need a member subscription to the list in question if the archives are private. Once the installation is done then all that is needed is to run a cron job that indexes new posts into the mysql database.
> The limitations to this script is that it requires a mysql db and can only be installed on a list by list basis. Also the search page is NOT integrated with archives. It is setup as a separate page outside of the mailing list archives however that has not been an issue with our clients. It can probably be integrated easy enough into your archives if you want.
> If there is enough interest in this then I will make it a free download and perhaps someone can create a FAQ entry to the download. Just let me know.
> Regards,Brian--------------------------------------EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
> -----Original Message-----From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Peter EdleySent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:15 AMTo: mailman-users at python.orgSubject: Re: [Mailman-Users] PHP Script for search archive
> Not sure if there where any replies to this off list if so could youplease repost to the list since this is somthing I would be interestedin.
> 
> On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 12:24 -0300, Hermes PHP wrote:> Hi,> >  > > Does anyone know of any script in PHP that look inside archives of the list?> >  > > The archives of the list are private.> >  > > > > Solution in phyton or perl not serve to me, has to be in PHP> >  > > > > Att,> > '? um orgulho ter voc? como nosso cliente'> > ____________________________ > Hermes Alves> Gerente TI>  > ArgoHost.net> Hospedagem Web com Facilidade>  <blocked::BLOCKED::http://www.argohost.net/> http://www.argohost.net> Suporte Telef?nico: (85) 3264 9944 / (11) 4063 4844 R. 102> E-mail:  <blocked::BLOCKED::mailto:suporte at argohost.net>> falecom at argohost.net> >  > > > > ------------------------------------------------------> Mailman-Users mailing list> Mailman-Users at python.org> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python
.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/peter%40cww.org.uk> > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> ------------------------------------------------------Mailman-Users mailing listMailman-Users at python.orghttp://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-usersMailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.pySearchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brian%40emwd.com
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> ------------------------------------------------------Mailman-Users mailing listMailman-Users at python.orghttp://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-usersMailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.pySearchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ivanlan%40pauahtun.org
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 

-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours


From henhowc at ucla.edu  Wed Dec 12 20:58:03 2007
From: henhowc at ucla.edu (Henry)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:58:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-Discard Sender Filter
Message-ID: <6dfbc9950712121158x141825b4r8d1a6621ddfddc68@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,

One of our Mailman mailing lists appears to have several e-mail
addresses listed under the sender filter section:

"List of non-member addresses whose postings will be automatically discarded"

I've talked to the list admins and they have all claimed that they did
not place these e-mail addresses there nor do they know how they got
there in the first place. Is there some sort of automatic "feature" in
Mailman that would be adding these e-mail addresses without manual
intervention? My first inclination after looking through the online
documentation and from using Mailman for the last few years was that
someone simply added these e-mail addresses manually by mistake and
either forgot about it or just didn't care to admit to doing it.
Basically I just wanted to make sure there wasn't anything I've missed
and this was in fact just user error and some feature you can
enable/disable through the admin options.

Anyone's input will be much appreciated. Thanks!

-- 
Henry Chang
henhowc at ucla.edu
University of California, Los Angeles

From ratnaweera at dplanet.ch  Wed Dec 12 21:00:16 2007
From: ratnaweera at dplanet.ch (Visvanath Ratnaweera)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:00:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Extracting e-mail addresses from a dead machine
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007121207481004531b66604f@msapiro>
References: <20071212110335.GA4617@mituru.zhaw.ch>
	<PC17602007121207481004531b66604f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20071212200016.GA3947@mituru>

Hi Mark

Ref: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 12.12.2007 18:16

I'm impressed by the support one gets in this list!

> Visvanath Ratnaweera wrote:
> >
> >I have the data backup from a dead machine. The list is not moved
> >to a new server (yet). Therefore I have no running system of Mailman.
> >
> >Is there a way of extracting the e-mail addresses from this (data)
> >backup?
> 
> 
> The addresses are in Mailman's lists/<listname>/config.pck file on the
> backup.  All the good ways of getting them require access to a Mailman
> installation somewhere. Since you don't have that, you are left with
> running 'strings config.pck' and sifting through the output for the
> addresses.

That defeats the original purpose. Until I get the list running
there was an urgent mail to be sent - only in case if there is a
trivial solution.
 
> If you did have access to a Mailman installation, you could run
> Mailman's bin/dumpdb against the config.pck which would produce output
> easier to deal with, or you could create a lists/<listname>/ directory
> in that installation, put the config.pck in it and run
> "bin/list_members -f -p <listname>"

I think better get the list working before the next "urgency" ;-(
Will come back if there is a need. Thanks a lot!

Visvanath

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Dec 12 21:15:41 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:15:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Extracting e-mail addresses from a dead machine
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007121207481004531b66604f@msapiro>
References: <20071212110335.GA4617@mituru.zhaw.ch>
	<PC17602007121207481004531b66604f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200712122004.lBCK3iAw014345@unreal.eroded.org>

Mark Sapiro sent the message below at 07:48 12/12/2007:
>Visvanath Ratnaweera wrote:
> >
> >I have the data backup from a dead machine. The list is not moved
> >to a new server (yet). Therefore I have no running system of Mailman.
> >
> >Is there a way of extracting the e-mail addresses from this (data)
> >backup?

<snip>

>If you did have access to a Mailman installation, you could run
>Mailman's bin/dumpdb against the config.pck which would produce output
>easier to deal with, or you could create a lists/<listname>/ directory
>in that installation, put the config.pck in it and run
>"bin/list_members -f -p <listname>"
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Is it really necessary to have a fully functioning Mailman 
installation to do this?

Would it not be sufficient to have Python installed, a copy of the 
dumpdb script and the config.pck file?





Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Wed Dec 12 21:33:18 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:33:18 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit destination
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net>'
	dated: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:02:09 -0800
Message-ID: <200712122033.lBCKXI8M001561@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

Steve Burling wrote:
>>
>>But as near as I can tell, she *is* putting the list address in the To: 
>>field, it's just been munged (presumably by Micro$oft LookOut) to have 
>>quotes in funny places.  Here's what the To: field looks like from the 
>>listname.mbox file (edited to protect the innocent):
>>
>>To: "list at icpsr.umich.edu" <'list at icpsr.umich.edu'>
>>
>>Are those unnecessary single quotes inside the "<...>" confusing Mailman? 

And Mark Sapiro replied:

>Python's email.Utils.parseaddr() returns the single quotes as part of
>the address.
>
>I hate to be in a position of defending LookOut, but are you sure she
>doesn't have the quoted address in her address book entry?
>
>If this can't be fixed at her end, you could put the quoted address in
>the list's acceptable_aliases.

>From my reading of RFC2821, 

     <'list at icpsr.umich.edu'>

is invalid.  Here is how I parse it, followed by the RFC 2821
definitions:

To: "list at icpsr.umich.edu" <'list at icpsr.umich.edu'>
To: [display-name]         angle-addr
To: [display-name]         "<" addr-spec ">"
To: [display-name]         "<" local-part "@" domain ">"

to              =       "To:" address-list CRLF
address-list    =       (address *("," address)) / obs-addr-list
address         =       mailbox / group
mailbox         =       name-addr / addr-spec
name-addr       =       [display-name] angle-addr
display-name    =       phrase
angle-addr      =       [CFWS] "<" addr-spec ">" [CFWS] / obs-angle-addr
addr-spec       =       local-part "@" domain
local-part      =       dot-atom / quoted-string / obs-local-part
obs-addr-list   =       1*([address] [CFWS] "," [CFWS]) [address]
obs-angle-addr  =       [CFWS] "<" [obs-route] addr-spec ">" [CFWS]

Note that 

     addr-spec

does not have apostrophes at each end.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Dec 12 21:58:49 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:58:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Extracting e-mail addresses from a dead machine
In-Reply-To: <200712122004.lBCK3iAw014345@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020071212125849037511d0b468@msapiro>

Dragon wrote:

>Mark Sapiro sent the message below at 07:48 12/12/2007:
>
>>If you did have access to a Mailman installation, you could run
>>Mailman's bin/dumpdb against the config.pck which would produce output
>>easier to deal with, or you could create a lists/<listname>/ directory
>>in that installation, put the config.pck in it and run
>>"bin/list_members -f -p <listname>"
>---------------- End original message. ---------------------
>
>Is it really necessary to have a fully functioning Mailman 
>installation to do this?
>
>Would it not be sufficient to have Python installed, a copy of the 
>dumpdb script and the config.pck file?


Nope. There are two issues. The first is that there are imports of
Mailman modules in dumpdb. The 'import paths' which among other things
inserts the path to mailman in sys.path so that Mailman modules can be
imported needs to be removed if there is no paths module or path to
the Mailman installation. There is also a 'from Mailman.i18n import _'
which can be replaced with

def _(s):
    return s

If you do those things, the dumpdb script will run, but then you will
likely encounter the second issue. The config.pck probably contains
instances of the _BounceInfo class defined in Mailman/Bouncer.py. If
so, the unpickling needs to import that module to understand the
_BounceInfo class instances. So you need that module plus everything
it imports, etc.

I.e. you need pretty much a whole Mailman installation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Dec 12 22:06:40 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:06:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-Discard Sender Filter
In-Reply-To: <6dfbc9950712121158x141825b4r8d1a6621ddfddc68@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020071212130640040611d0b47e@msapiro>

Henry wrote:
>
>My first inclination after looking through the online
>documentation and from using Mailman for the last few years was that
>someone simply added these e-mail addresses manually by mistake and
>either forgot about it or just didn't care to admit to doing it.
>Basically I just wanted to make sure there wasn't anything I've missed
>and this was in fact just user error and some feature you can
>enable/disable through the admin options.


When a list is created, the *_these_nonmember fields are empty. There
is no feature/option/configuration setting to make them otherwise by
default.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Wed Dec 12 22:25:51 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:25:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-Discard Sender Filter
In-Reply-To: <PC176020071212130640040611d0b47e@msapiro>
References: <PC176020071212130640040611d0b47e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <476051DF.8010601@Media-Brokers.com>

Mark Sapiro, on 12/12/2007 4:06 PM, said the following:
> Henry wrote:
>> My first inclination after looking through the online
>> documentation and from using Mailman for the last few years was that
>> someone simply added these e-mail addresses manually by mistake and
>> either forgot about it or just didn't care to admit to doing it.
>> Basically I just wanted to make sure there wasn't anything I've missed
>> and this was in fact just user error and some feature you can
>> enable/disable through the admin options.

> When a list is created, the *_these_nonmember fields are empty. There
> is no feature/option/configuration setting to make them otherwise by
> default.

Seems like I recall seeing an option to 'discard messages from this 
poster' when handling some administrative holds at some time, but I 
don't see it now...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Dec 12 22:48:20 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:48:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-Discard Sender Filter
In-Reply-To: <476051DF.8010601@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712121348200218f99728ce@msapiro>

Charles Marcus wrote:

>Mark Sapiro, on 12/12/2007 4:06 PM, said the following:
>> Henry wrote:
>>> My first inclination after looking through the online
>>> documentation and from using Mailman for the last few years was that
>>> someone simply added these e-mail addresses manually by mistake and
>>> either forgot about it or just didn't care to admit to doing it.
>>> Basically I just wanted to make sure there wasn't anything I've missed
>>> and this was in fact just user error and some feature you can
>>> enable/disable through the admin options.
>
>> When a list is created, the *_these_nonmember fields are empty. There
>> is no feature/option/configuration setting to make them otherwise by
>> default.
>
>Seems like I recall seeing an option to 'discard messages from this 
>poster' when handling some administrative holds at some time, but I 
>don't see it now...


Privacy options...->Sender filters->discard_these_nonmembers.

There is also an option in the admindb interface to add the sender of a
held non-member post to one of the *_these_nonmembers filters when
handling the post. This may explain how the addresses got in the OP's
list without the admin's remembering putting them there.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mgrueter at aol.com  Wed Dec 12 22:52:48 2007
From: mgrueter at aol.com (Michael Grueter)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:52:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listinfo_url and optionsurl alternatives?
In-Reply-To: <PC176020071210131003071870e9e4f1@msapiro>
References: <PC176020071210131003071870e9e4f1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <2D49CF70-6B43-4EBA-9503-64BFE5BAED8B@aol.com>

On Dec 10, 2007, at 1:10 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Michael Grueter wrote:
>
>> The subscribeack.txt template file uses two variables that I would
>> like to change:
>>
>> 1) %(listinfo_url)s produces the following URL:
>>
>> http://hostname/mailman/listinfo/listname
>>
>> where hostname is the generic host name for the mail server.
>>
>> 2) %(optionsurl)s produces a similar URL with the same generic  
>> hostname:
>>
>> http://hostname/mailman/options/listname/username%40domain
>>
>> Instead, I would like Mailman to use the custom "host name this list
>> prefers for email" as entered in the General Options page of the
>> Administration web page. What variables would I use to do this?
>
> %(host_name)s is exactly that.
>
> If you want to make a url, you would need something like
>
> http://%(host_name)s/mailman/listinfo/listname
>
> or
>
> http://%(host_name)s/mailman/options/listname/%(user)s
>
> although if that's what you're trying to do, your Mailman and/or your
> list is not properly configured.
>
> If you have the appropriate add_virtualhost() directives in mm_cfg.py
> for this host and you have run fix_url if necessary to give the list
> the correct web_page_url attribute, you should get the URL's you want
> from the default template.
>
> See some of the articles returned by
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> query=web_page_url&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search>.

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the info. I was able to play with the variables you  
mentioned and it works. So as far as correctly configuring Mailman is  
concerned, are you saying that I should not have to edit  
subscribeack.txt in order for the "host name this list prefers for  
email" to show up instead of the generic mail server host name?

I'm running Mac OS X Server 10.4.10 and there is a GUI admin tool for  
configuring mailing lists. This is what I used to setup my mailing  
list. Maybe it is not configuring things properly. Are you familiar  
with this tool?

Thanks,

- Mike

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Wed Dec 12 23:16:19 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:16:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-Discard Sender Filter
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712121348200218f99728ce@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200712121348200218f99728ce@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47605DB3.3090105@Media-Brokers.com>

On 12/12/2007, Mark Sapiro (mark at msapiro.net) wrote:
> There is also an option in the admindb interface to add the sender of
> a held non-member post to one of the *_these_nonmembers filters when
> handling the post. This may explain how the addresses got in the
> OP's list without the admin's remembering putting them there.

Yeah, thats the one I was thinking of... but the funny thing is, I just 
tested this and I don't see that option when I go to deal with the 
post... is there a way to disable these so you don't see them at all?

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec 13 00:43:53 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:43:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-Discard Sender Filter
In-Reply-To: <47605DB3.3090105@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712121543530687f4524344@msapiro>

Charles Marcus wrote:

>On 12/12/2007, Mark Sapiro (mark at msapiro.net) wrote:
>> There is also an option in the admindb interface to add the sender of
>> a held non-member post to one of the *_these_nonmembers filters when
>> handling the post. This may explain how the addresses got in the
>> OP's list without the admin's remembering putting them there.
>
>Yeah, thats the one I was thinking of... but the funny thing is, I just 
>tested this and I don't see that option when I go to deal with the 
>post... is there a way to disable these so you don't see them at all?


The option is only there for posts from non-members. Posts from members
held for moderation or other reasons will not have that option because
it doesn't make sense for them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec 13 01:00:18 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:00:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit destination
In-Reply-To: <200712122033.lBCKXI8M001561@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712121600180296f452419a@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:

>Steve Burling wrote:
>>>
>>>But as near as I can tell, she *is* putting the list address in the To: 
>>>field, it's just been munged (presumably by Micro$oft LookOut) to have 
>>>quotes in funny places.  Here's what the To: field looks like from the 
>>>listname.mbox file (edited to protect the innocent):
>>>
>>>To: "list at icpsr.umich.edu" <'list at icpsr.umich.edu'>
>>>
>>>Are those unnecessary single quotes inside the "<...>" confusing Mailman? 
>
>And Mark Sapiro replied:
>
>>Python's email.Utils.parseaddr() returns the single quotes as part of
>>the address.
>>
>>I hate to be in a position of defending LookOut, but are you sure she
>>doesn't have the quoted address in her address book entry?
>>
>>If this can't be fixed at her end, you could put the quoted address in
>>the list's acceptable_aliases.
>
>>From my reading of RFC2821, 
>
>     <'list at icpsr.umich.edu'>
>
>is invalid.  Here is how I parse it, followed by the RFC 2821
>definitions:


It is clearly invalid, no argument about that, but the question was
what to do about it.


>To: "list at icpsr.umich.edu" <'list at icpsr.umich.edu'>
>To: [display-name]         angle-addr
>To: [display-name]         "<" addr-spec ">"
>To: [display-name]         "<" local-part "@" domain ">"
>
>to              =       "To:" address-list CRLF
>address-list    =       (address *("," address)) / obs-addr-list
>address         =       mailbox / group
>mailbox         =       name-addr / addr-spec
>name-addr       =       [display-name] angle-addr
>display-name    =       phrase
>angle-addr      =       [CFWS] "<" addr-spec ">" [CFWS] / obs-angle-addr
>addr-spec       =       local-part "@" domain
>local-part      =       dot-atom / quoted-string / obs-local-part
>obs-addr-list   =       1*([address] [CFWS] "," [CFWS]) [address]
>obs-angle-addr  =       [CFWS] "<" [obs-route] addr-spec ">" [CFWS]
>
>Note that 
>
>     addr-spec
>
>does not have apostrophes at each end.


BTW, only the edu' part is invalid as only letters, digits and
non-leading hyphens can appear in the dot-separated pieces of domain,
but the 'list part is a legal local-part.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec 13 01:19:24 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:19:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listinfo_url and optionsurl alternatives?
In-Reply-To: <2D49CF70-6B43-4EBA-9503-64BFE5BAED8B@aol.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712121619240328f9607520@msapiro>

Michael Grueter wrote:
>
>On Dec 10, 2007, at 1:10 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> If you have the appropriate add_virtualhost() directives in mm_cfg.py
>> for this host and you have run fix_url if necessary to give the list
>> the correct web_page_url attribute, you should get the URL's you want
>> from the default template.
>>
>> See some of the articles returned by
>> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
>> query=web_page_url&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search>.
>
>Hi Mark,
>
>Thanks for the info. I was able to play with the variables you  
>mentioned and it works. So as far as correctly configuring Mailman is  
>concerned, are you saying that I should not have to edit  
>subscribeack.txt in order for the "host name this list prefers for  
>email" to show up instead of the generic mail server host name?


For purposes of discussion, let's say the "host name this list prefers
for email" is example.com.

Then, what I am saying is that if the URLs for your list's web pages
should be of the form http://example.com/mailman/..., the list's
hidden web_page_url attribute should be 'http://example.com/mailman/'
and then %(listinfo_url)s will produce
http://example.com/mailman/listinfo/listname and %(optionsurl)s will
produce http://example.com/mailman/options/listname/username%40domain


Now there are several ways to accomplish this, but first you should have

add_virtualhost('example.com', 'example.com')

in mm_cfg.py. Then you can run

bin/withlist -r -r fix_url listname -u example.com

to fix the list.


>I'm running Mac OS X Server 10.4.10 and there is a GUI admin tool for  
>configuring mailing lists. This is what I used to setup my mailing  
>list. Maybe it is not configuring things properly. Are you familiar  
>with this tool?


No, although I know that some people who run Apple's Mac OS X Server
Mailman forgo Apples GUI and use Mailman's web admin interface instead.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Dec 13 04:54:59 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:54:59 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce management and uncaught bounce notifications
In-Reply-To: <020301c83cc5$3b900fe0$0202a8c0@newbuild>
References: <020301c83cc5$3b900fe0$0202a8c0@newbuild>
Message-ID: <87d4tbdzak.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Rod at freeserve writes:

 > Q1    Why are they called 'uncaught' ... ?

This is pretty standard jargon.  There are low level routines, each of
which traps the errors it expects.  Some trap mice, some trap bears,
some trap bacteria.

Every once in a while, something unimaginable like the Loch Ness
Monster comes along and eludes all the traps.  So Mailman sets up a
moat around the castle in a high level routine, and it is the high-
level routine that eventually catches the tricky ones swimming in the
moat, and throws them in the dungeon because it has nothing useful to
do with them.  Then it calls the Sherriff (that's you!) to decide what
to do with them.

So "uncaught" is elliptical: it means "uncaught by one of the handlers
for errors we are prepared to handle sanely."

>From the "aren't you glad you asked?" department.


From opensource at unixoses.com  Thu Dec 13 04:46:47 2007
From: opensource at unixoses.com (Paul)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:46:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aliasing for another domain
Message-ID: <4798.192.168.103.1.1197517607.squirrel@bikesn4x4s.com>

I have been hosting a some mailman list for years now, and now we are
looking into getting the list from list at mydomain.com to
list at newdomain.com.

Here are some specifics:
The new domain already has a mail server and hosting web pages.

My idea is like like this.  I've tested it and it seems to work fine, but
am wondering if there is a more correct way.

* Make an mx record at "newdomain.com", such as "list.newdomain.com", and
give the new mx record the "mydomain" IP address.

* Add "list.newdomain.com" in my mx virtual domain table.

* Add all mailman's aliases in my mx's virtual table.

* Change the "Host name this list prefers for email" line in the "general
options page" to "list.newdomain.com".

My questions are:

Is there an easier way to alias all of mailman's aliases, such as for
admin, bounces, confirm, join, leave, owner, request, subscribe,
unsubscribe?

Also, the web interface will still be at "mydomain.com", which should not
be a problem, I guess a cname could be done for "list.newdomain.com", but
then I don't want to have that much control over that subdomain, just mx
for it.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Dec 13 05:08:50 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:08:50 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-Discard Sender Filter
In-Reply-To: <6dfbc9950712121158x141825b4r8d1a6621ddfddc68@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6dfbc9950712121158x141825b4r8d1a6621ddfddc68@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c386602f2be5@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/12/07, Henry wrote:

>  I've talked to the list admins and they have all claimed that they did
>  not place these e-mail addresses there nor do they know how they got
>  there in the first place. Is there some sort of automatic "feature" in
>  Mailman that would be adding these e-mail addresses without manual
>  intervention? My first inclination after looking through the online
>  documentation and from using Mailman for the last few years was that
>  someone simply added these e-mail addresses manually by mistake and
>  either forgot about it or just didn't care to admit to doing it.

When you first pull up the moderation queue for a mailing list, 
anything that is held gives you at least one set of options you can 
take (allow, reject, discard, etc...) but if the post came from a 
non-member you get an additional set of options you can take 
(including putting the sender address on the auto-discard list, the 
auto-accept list, etc...).

This is the only other way I know of to "automatically" put addresses 
on one of the per-list whitelists or blacklists.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Dec 13 05:44:03 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:44:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aliasing for another domain
In-Reply-To: <4798.192.168.103.1.1197517607.squirrel@bikesn4x4s.com>
References: <4798.192.168.103.1.1197517607.squirrel@bikesn4x4s.com>
Message-ID: <p06240806c38667e8fb56@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/12/07, Paul wrote:

>  My idea is like like this.  I've tested it and it seems to work fine, but
>  am wondering if there is a more correct way.
>
>  * Make an mx record at "newdomain.com", such as "list.newdomain.com", and
>  give the new mx record the "mydomain" IP address.
>
>  * Add "list.newdomain.com" in my mx virtual domain table.
>
>  * Add all mailman's aliases in my mx's virtual table.

Depending on your MTA and how the aliases are generated for 
integration with your MTA, this step may not be necessary.

If you're going to have all the same lists with the same names in 
both domains, then you don't need to have virtual domain support 
within Mailman, just have the MTA recognize "list.newdomain.com" as a 
name that it should treat as "local".  At that point, the same system 
aliases for the old domain will now function for 
"list.newdomain.com", and you shouldn't need to do anything else with 
the aliases.

>  Is there an easier way to alias all of mailman's aliases, such as for
>  admin, bounces, confirm, join, leave, owner, request, subscribe,
>  unsubscribe?

If you're going to use the virtual alias table interface, then I 
don't see an easier way around this problem.  If you use local 
aliases instead (which only have a "local" address portion leaving 
off the host/domain part), then you should be fine.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mkabot at soarol.com  Thu Dec 13 06:17:05 2007
From: mkabot at soarol.com (Michael Kabot)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 00:17:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Basic bounce processing question
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200711160831130234e50617d7@msapiro>
References: <00f201c82855$543e4f40$fcbaedc0$@com>
	<PC1760200711160831130234e50617d7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <020601c83d47$67176d20$35464760$@com>

Follow up question on the below suggestion.

In this configuration if a user replies, they will be replying to the
-bounces address which will then send email to the Admin - not the entire
list?

How do I configure the list to use the "basename", without the -bounces, in
the Sender: field?

Thanks,

Mike

| -----Original Message-----
| From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
| Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 11:31 AM
| To: mkabot at soarol.com; Mailman-Users at python.org
| Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Basic bounce processing question
| 
| Michael Kabot wrote:
| >
| >Is there anyway to turn the bounce processing score feature off,
| prevent
| >bounces from going back to list members, but still have bounce
| messages go
| >the list owner?
| 
| 
| You do this in the MTA. If the MTA has an alias like:
| 
| listname-bounces: "|/path/to/mail/mailman bounces listname"
| 
| You change it to
| 
| listname-bounces: "|/path/to/mail/mailman owner listname"
| 
| If the MTA uses some other kind of routing for Mailman, you do the
| equivalent thing.
| 
| Note that bounces from RFC compliant MTAs will always be returned to
| the listname-bounces address (the envelope sender). That address is
| also put in Sender: and Errors-To: headers in the outgoing mail to
| help non-compliant MTAs get it right. Still, there are non-compliant
| MTAs that will return bounces to the From: or other header address.
| There's nothing Mailman can do about that.
| 
| --
| Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
| San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec 13 06:32:02 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:32:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Basic bounce processing question
In-Reply-To: <020601c83d47$67176d20$35464760$@com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712122132020906651c2b4c@msapiro>

Michael Kabot wrote:

>Follow up question on the below suggestion.
>
>In this configuration if a user replies, they will be replying to the
>-bounces address which will then send email to the Admin - not the entire
>list?


Not if their MUA does what it is supposed to do. Replies should go to
the From: overridden by Reply-To:, not to the Sender:.

This is no different than the ordinary case where the -bounces address
is used for automated bounce processing.


>How do I configure the list to use the "basename", without the -bounces, in
>the Sender: field?


If you really want to, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Thu Dec 13 14:53:53 2007
From: mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Meenal Pant)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:53:53 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom handler error
Message-ID: <47613971.4090201@ncsa.uiuc.edu>

I am trying to implement a custom handler and referring to
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=edit&file=faq04.067.htp for
doing so. I insert the

 GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(GLOBAL_PIPELINE.index('Moderate'), 'MyHandler')

line in mm_cfg.py and restart the qrunner  as 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl restart 

However the handler does not get inserted in Defaults.py

I am using RHEL FC7 and mailman is installed in /usr/lib and /var/lib.
Thanks
Meenal

From joy.bryant at dir.state.tx.us  Thu Dec 13 16:55:14 2007
From: joy.bryant at dir.state.tx.us (Bryant, Joy Hall)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:55:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seeking Advice on Managing Mailman Lists
	(Organizational side not technical)
Message-ID: <A3B261AD53A62A46AC90781387CCC4CCE1F983@EXVS01.HESungard.local>

Our government agency has 40-50 Mailman lists which have sprung up over
the years as various needs arose.  We have a wonderful couple of guys
handling the tech side of things and each list has an owner - usually
not too technical - that handles the day to day memberships, postings,
inquiries, etc. 

We don't really have any central management of the process and face the
common problems of no standards, lists that die out but no one is
notified so they don't get removed, inconsistent wording or look and
feel, new owners left pretty much to figure things out.

Do any of you have good practices you could share about the
organizational management of the lists? We don't want to go too big
brother-ish, but perhaps things like:

** Form to request or deactivate a new list
** Examples of general policies every list owner should follow (not HOW
to do it, but perhaps a checklist of organization requirements: each
list must have a description, a footer, sample welcome message). I'm not
looking to re-create the user manual.
** Do you have periodic meetings of your list owners (again,
non-technical folks)? How often?

We can create these things from scratch, of course. But I wanted to
check with Mailman community to see if any of you have advice to share.
I'm aware of the user manuals, FAQs, and this list.  I did some
searching for this topic, but couldn't quite hit a match.  

I'm interested in corresponding with some of you in similar
circumstance.

Thanks,


Joy


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Joy Hall Bryant
Program Manager - IRM Outreach
Texas Department of Information Resources (DIR)
Office of Communications & Strategic Partnerships
P.O. Box 13564
Austin, TX 78711-3564
(512) 475-2346
joy.bryant at dir.state.tx.us



From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Dec 13 16:55:26 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:55:26 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom handler error
In-Reply-To: <47613971.4090201@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
References: <47613971.4090201@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240802c38705fa07c2@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/13/07, Meenal Pant wrote:

>  However the handler does not get inserted in Defaults.py

Defaults.py is a Python program that creates certain system-wide 
defaults, some of which can (and should) be over-ridden in mm_cfg.py. 
Thus, nothing you do in mm_cfg.py is going to get "inserted" into 
Defaults.py.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec 13 18:02:45 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:02:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom handler error
In-Reply-To: <47613971.4090201@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602007121309024506561a6e0ffd@msapiro>

Meenal Pant wrote:

>I am trying to implement a custom handler and referring to
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=edit&file=faq04.067.htp for
>doing so. I insert the
>
> GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(GLOBAL_PIPELINE.index('Moderate'), 'MyHandler')
>
>line in mm_cfg.py and restart the qrunner  as 
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl restart 
>
>However the handler does not get inserted in Defaults.py


As Brad says, it doesn't get inserted in Defaults.py, but it does get
inserted into the GLOBAL_PIPELINE list that is referenced by Mailman
modules as mm_cfg.GLOBAL_PIPELINE.

Do you have a real problem? I.e. does it seem that MyHandler doesn't
get called, or do you just think you have a problem because you don't
see MyHandler in Defaults.py?

If you have a real problem, we need more information about your
specific MyHandler and what it should be doing.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From japruim at raoset.com  Thu Dec 13 19:53:42 2007
From: japruim at raoset.com (Jason Pruim)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:53:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making sure MailMan is running...
Message-ID: <AB29B19C-62F6-4B3C-AE1D-EBC72A9AC2B9@raoset.com>

Hi Everyone...

I have looked around on the web and haven't found any info that I  
understand about making sure that mailman is receiving and sending e- 
mail that is sent into it. I just had a situation where on my site  
(With real low volume lists) that it was not sending mail since the 11  
of december...

Would it be best to watch for the qrunner process and make sure that's  
running? Or is there a better way? I'm planning on writing this into a  
Widget (For all you Macintosh people out there) if I can find a good  
way to make sure this is up and running.

Thanks for taking the time to read and post any info you have! :)


--

Jason Pruim
Raoset Inc.
Technology Manager
MQC Specialist
3251 132nd ave
Holland, MI, 49424
www.raoset.com
japruim at raoset.com



From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Thu Dec 13 20:55:18 2007
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:55:18 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making sure MailMan is running...
In-Reply-To: <AB29B19C-62F6-4B3C-AE1D-EBC72A9AC2B9@raoset.com>
References: <AB29B19C-62F6-4B3C-AE1D-EBC72A9AC2B9@raoset.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0712131347130.80368@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007, Jason Pruim wrote:

> I have looked around on the web and haven't found any info that I
> understand about making sure that mailman is receiving and sending e-
> mail that is sent into it. I just had a situation where on my site
> (With real low volume lists) that it was not sending mail since the 11
> of december...
>
> Would it be best to watch for the qrunner process and make sure that's
> running? Or is there a better way? I'm planning on writing this into a
> Widget (For all you Macintosh people out there) if I can find a good
> way to make sure this is up and running.

Is this for Mac OS X? It's not clear although you made the reference to
Macintoshes above.

I don't know anything about writing OS X widgets but as I've had an issue
with Mailman not starting reliably under Leopard, I set up a cron job to
run hourly and let me know if all the qrunners aren't there. It's pretty
simple:

#!/bin/sh
QRUNNERS=`ps -efw | grep -v grep | grep -c Python | awk '{ print $1 }'`

if [ $QRUNNERS != 9 ] ; then
  {
    echo "Mailman qrunner problem" | /usr/sbin/sendmail me at mydomain.com
  }
fi

Note that despite the "sendmail" command used there, that's really Postfix
as Postfix used the command "sendmail" (for Sendmail compatibility) as a
means of injecting mail. Note also that as written, the mail message will
be missing all RFC required headers but as it's going to myself, I don't
care. You could, of course, do something else there to provide
notification.

-- Larry Stone
   lstone19 at stonejongleux.com

From japruim at raoset.com  Thu Dec 13 21:01:49 2007
From: japruim at raoset.com (Jason Pruim)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:01:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making sure MailMan is running...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0712131347130.80368@albion.stonejongleux.com>
References: <AB29B19C-62F6-4B3C-AE1D-EBC72A9AC2B9@raoset.com>
	<Pine.OSX.4.58.0712131347130.80368@albion.stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <585FF742-683F-41A0-91C9-74C8E2046097@raoset.com>


On Dec 13, 2007, at 2:55 PM, Larry Stone wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Dec 2007, Jason Pruim wrote:
>
>> I have looked around on the web and haven't found any info that I
>> understand about making sure that mailman is receiving and sending e-
>> mail that is sent into it. I just had a situation where on my site
>> (With real low volume lists) that it was not sending mail since the  
>> 11
>> of december...
>>
>> Would it be best to watch for the qrunner process and make sure  
>> that's
>> running? Or is there a better way? I'm planning on writing this  
>> into a
>> Widget (For all you Macintosh people out there) if I can find a good
>> way to make sure this is up and running.
>
> Is this for Mac OS X? It's not clear although you made the reference  
> to
> Macintoshes above.
>
> I don't know anything about writing OS X widgets but as I've had an  
> issue
> with Mailman not starting reliably under Leopard, I set up a cron  
> job to
> run hourly and let me know if all the qrunners aren't there. It's  
> pretty
> simple:
>
> #!/bin/sh
> QRUNNERS=`ps -efw | grep -v grep | grep -c Python | awk '{ print  
> $1 }'`
>
> if [ $QRUNNERS != 9 ] ; then
>  {
>    echo "Mailman qrunner problem" | /usr/sbin/sendmail me at mydomain.com
>  }
> fi
>
> Note that despite the "sendmail" command used there, that's really  
> Postfix
> as Postfix used the command "sendmail" (for Sendmail compatibility)  
> as a
> means of injecting mail. Note also that as written, the mail message  
> will
> be missing all RFC required headers but as it's going to myself, I  
> don't
> care. You could, of course, do something else there to provide
> notification.
>
> -- Larry Stone
>   lstone19 at stonejongleux.com

Hi Larry,

Thanks for the response. The server in question is a Mac OS X Server  
10.4.11(Tiger) server. I will definitely look into that code, and see  
if I could incorporate that into my widget (Writing widgets in Leopard  
is pretty easy if you know what you want to do!)


--

Jason Pruim
Raoset Inc.
Technology Manager
MQC Specialist
3251 132nd ave
Holland, MI, 49424
www.raoset.com
japruim at raoset.com



From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Thu Dec 13 21:14:30 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:14:30 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making sure MailMan is running...
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Jason Pruim <japruim@raoset.com>'
	dated: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:53:42 -0500
Message-ID: <200712132014.lBDKEUSG006401@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

Jason Pruim <japruim at raoset.com> wrote:

>Hi Everyone...
>
>I have looked around on the web and haven't found any info that I  
>understand about making sure that mailman is receiving and sending e- 
>mail that is sent into it. I just had a situation where on my site  
>(With real low volume lists) that it was not sending mail since the 11  
>of december...
>
>Would it be best to watch for the qrunner process and make sure that's  
>running? Or is there a better way? I'm planning on writing this into a  
>Widget (For all you Macintosh people out there) if I can find a good  
>way to make sure this is up and running.
>
>Thanks for taking the time to read and post any info you have! :)

I monitor 12 different mail systems (including one Mailman system)
from one Unix mailer.  I have a script for each mail system that, every
15 minutes, sends a mail message to the system.  For Mailman, the
mail is sent to a Mailman list that I have created.
That list has one subscriber - the e-mail address from which the test
mail originates.  The mail, if Mailman is working properly, will
receive the posting and then send it back to the single address.
The script, after sending the mail, waits up to 10 minutes for the
return mail to appear in the Unix mailbox.  If the mail does not appear
in 10 minutes, the script sends alert pages to the Mailman support
personnel.  If I start getting pages from many of the 12 mail system
watch crons, I know that either there is a big networking problem or
the mail system from which I send the crons is having problems.
For Mailman, the return mail usually returns within 1-3 seconds.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Dec 14 04:48:33 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:48:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listinfo_url and optionsurl alternatives?
In-Reply-To: <4C08CF59-98C1-4176-9FFE-F5C56B92A376@aol.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020071213194833096862204989@msapiro>

Michael Grueter wrote:
>
>On Dec 12, 2007, at 4:19 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Now there are several ways to accomplish this, but first you should  
>> have
>>
>> add_virtualhost('example.com', 'example.com')
>>
>> in mm_cfg.py. Then you can run
>>
>> bin/withlist -r -r fix_url listname -u example.com
>>
>> to fix the list.
>
> From what I can tell, the Apple GUI does not allow configuring  
>virtual hosts in Mailman, nor does their documentation mention it, so  
>thank you for your information and your willingness to help. The  
>commands you mentioned did the trick. I did have to change the  
>withlist command like this:
>
>sudo bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname -u example.com
>
>The two -r commands produced an error on my server and I had to add  
>the -l command as withlist complained about the file not being  
>locked. I also had to run it through sudo so that withlist could  
>modify the files it needed.


Yes, the -r -r was a typo on my part. Sorry about that.

I'm glad you got it worked out.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From richip at richip.dhs.org  Fri Dec 14 21:34:01 2007
From: richip at richip.dhs.org (Richi Plana)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 13:34:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Handling Auto-Receipt Notifications
Message-ID: <1197664441.2210.26.camel@localhost6.localdomain6>

Hi,

I'm setting up Mailman for an organization where it's common practice to
have mail user agents automatically send back receipt notifications. In
other words, there's no getting around auto-receipt notification.

How does one handle the case where a subscriber's MUA automatically
sends Receipt replies to each email received including emails from
mailing lists? I've gone through the admin configuration scripts and
can't seem to find anything. Closest I found was in the Bounce options.
--

Richi Plana


From mangoo at wpkg.org  Fri Dec 14 21:38:10 2007
From: mangoo at wpkg.org (Tomasz Chmielewski)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:38:10 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one of my lists sends mails using
	"username@domain.tld-bounces" address
Message-ID: <4762E9B2.1050707@wpkg.org>

One of my lists sends mails (subscription, unsubscriptions etc.) using 
"username at domain.tld-bounces" address, where "username at domain.tld" is an 
email address defined in:

MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'username at domain.tld'


Because of this added -bounces at the end, the mails are of course rejected.

Other lists on the same server are not affected.

Any ideas what I screwed?


-- 
Tomasz Chmielewski
http://wpkg.org

From mangoo at wpkg.org  Fri Dec 14 21:40:37 2007
From: mangoo at wpkg.org (Tomasz Chmielewski)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:40:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one of my lists sends mails
 using	"username@domain.tld-bounces" address
In-Reply-To: <4762E9B2.1050707@wpkg.org>
References: <4762E9B2.1050707@wpkg.org>
Message-ID: <4762EA45.50300@wpkg.org>

Tomasz Chmielewski schrieb:
> One of my lists sends mails (subscription, unsubscriptions etc.) using 
> "username at domain.tld-bounces" address, where "username at domain.tld" is an 
> email address defined in:
> 
> MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'username at domain.tld'
> 
> 
> Because of this added -bounces at the end, the mails are of course rejected.
> 
> Other lists on the same server are not affected.
> 
> Any ideas what I screwed?

Actually, all lists on that server, but one, have -bounces added to the 
MAILMAN_SITE_LIST address.

I've no idea what's wrong.


-- 
Tomasz Chmielewski
http://wpkg.org



From mangoo at wpkg.org  Fri Dec 14 21:44:38 2007
From: mangoo at wpkg.org (Tomasz Chmielewski)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:44:38 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one of my lists sends mails
 using	"username@domain.tld-bounces" address
In-Reply-To: <4762EA45.50300@wpkg.org>
References: <4762E9B2.1050707@wpkg.org> <4762EA45.50300@wpkg.org>
Message-ID: <4762EB36.7040300@wpkg.org>

Tomasz Chmielewski schrieb:
> Tomasz Chmielewski schrieb:
>> One of my lists sends mails (subscription, unsubscriptions etc.) using 
>> "username at domain.tld-bounces" address, where "username at domain.tld" is an 
>> email address defined in:
>>
>> MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'username at domain.tld'
>>
>>
>> Because of this added -bounces at the end, the mails are of course rejected.
>>
>> Other lists on the same server are not affected.
>>
>> Any ideas what I screwed?
> 
> Actually, all lists on that server, but one, have -bounces added to the 
> MAILMAN_SITE_LIST address.
> 
> I've no idea what's wrong.

Oops, looks like I should have used something like:

MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'


;)

Sorry for the noise.


-- 
Tomasz Chmielewski
http://wpkg.org

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Dec 14 22:07:30 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 13:07:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Handling Auto-Receipt Notifications
In-Reply-To: <1197664441.2210.26.camel@localhost6.localdomain6>
Message-ID: <PC176020071214130730059361cccf6f@msapiro>

Richi Plana wrote:
>
>I'm setting up Mailman for an organization where it's common practice to
>have mail user agents automatically send back receipt notifications. In
>other words, there's no getting around auto-receipt notification.


Bummer :-(


>How does one handle the case where a subscriber's MUA automatically
>sends Receipt replies to each email received including emails from
>mailing lists? I've gone through the admin configuration scripts and
>can't seem to find anything. Closest I found was in the Bounce options.


To what address is the auto-receipt sent?

If it is the envelope sender or the Sender: header, there may or may
not be a problem. The receipt will go to the listname-bounces address
and will be handled as a bounce. As long as it isn't VERPed, it will
likely be unrecognized and will be discarded or forwarded to the list
owner depending on bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner. If it is
VERPed, it will be scored as a bounce for the VERPed address, which is
a problem.

If, as is more likely, it is sent to the Reply-To: or From:, it is a
problem for the poster who gets all the receipts or for whatever the
Reply-To: might be set to.

In short, there's not really anything you can do with Mailman settings
to compensate for this except turning off
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner in the one case where this
might help.

The real solution is to train the recipient MUA to not send a receipt
for "Precedence: list" mail, or as long as the list is not fully
personalized, to not send a receipt for mail of which the recipient is
not a direct addressee. Or better yet, not send receipts at all.	

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From sgruver at cis.ctc.edu  Sat Dec 15 01:00:08 2007
From: sgruver at cis.ctc.edu (Gruver, Sandi)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:00:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no dupes across lists?
Message-ID: <A28996BB367AA74E89600FC38E9BBDB701D7FEDB@athens.CISI.ctc.edu>

Does the 'no dupes' option mean that members will not receive a messages
sent to more than one list to which they are subscribed?


Thank you,

S Gruver
Unix system administrator
Center for Information Services
Bellevue, WA 98004
phone 425.803.9753
fax 425.803.9652 



From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Dec 15 01:49:45 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:49:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no dupes across lists?
In-Reply-To: <A28996BB367AA74E89600FC38E9BBDB701D7FEDB@athens.CISI.ctc.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020071214164945079679f4c789@msapiro>

Gruver, Sandi wrote:

>Does the 'no dupes' option mean that members will not receive a messages
>sent to more than one list to which they are subscribed?


No. It only means that a member will not receive the post from the list
if (s)he in specifically addressed in To: or Cc: of the post.

If you have lists with duplicate members which are frequently cross
posted, the new sibling lists 'exclude' feature in Mailman 2.1.10 can
be used to avoid these duplicate messages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From opensource at unixoses.com  Sun Dec 16 06:36:52 2007
From: opensource at unixoses.com (Paul)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 00:36:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aliasing for another domain
In-Reply-To: <p06240806c38667e8fb56@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <4798.192.168.103.1.1197517607.squirrel@bikesn4x4s.com>
	<p06240806c38667e8fb56@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <4849.192.168.103.1.1197783412.squirrel@bikesn4x4s.com>

On Wed, December 12, 2007 11:44 pm, Brad Knowles wrote:
> On 12/12/07, Paul wrote:
>
>>  My idea is like like this.  I've tested it and it seems to work fine,
>> but
>>  am wondering if there is a more correct way.
>>
>>  * Make an mx record at "newdomain.com", such as "list.newdomain.com",
>> and
>>  give the new mx record the "mydomain" IP address.
>>
>>  * Add "list.newdomain.com" in my mx virtual domain table.
>>
>>  * Add all mailman's aliases in my mx's virtual table.
>
> Depending on your MTA and how the aliases are generated for
> integration with your MTA, this step may not be necessary.
>
> If you're going to have all the same lists with the same names in
> both domains, then you don't need to have virtual domain support
> within Mailman, just have the MTA recognize "list.newdomain.com" as a
> name that it should treat as "local".  At that point, the same system
> aliases for the old domain will now function for
> "list.newdomain.com", and you shouldn't need to do anything else with
> the aliases.

Great idea, I didn't even think of that for some reason.  I trie it, and
it works great with no virtual aliasing to do.  I'm still thinking which I
would rather do.  Locally is much easier to admin, but virtual is much
more configurable to customize, and I can tighten it further on what
accounts can pass.

>>  Is there an easier way to alias all of mailman's aliases, such as for
>>  admin, bounces, confirm, join, leave, owner, request, subscribe,
>>  unsubscribe?
>
> If you're going to use the virtual alias table interface, then I
> don't see an easier way around this problem.  If you use local
> aliases instead (which only have a "local" address portion leaving
> off the host/domain part), then you should be fine.


From jll at larsenfamily.com  Sat Dec 15 16:34:17 2007
From: jll at larsenfamily.com (Jared Larsen)
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 08:34:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rss
Message-ID: <4763F3F9.2020703@larsenfamily.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Good Morning,

I have looked through the archives quite extensively and haven't really
found an answer to my question so I thought I would pose the question
here.  I would like to be able to somehow convert my mail list to an RSS
feed.  I'd like to find a solution that is fairly simple.

Here are some of the solutions I've looked at and am unable to
accomplish myself.

http://taint.org/mmrss/

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg29722.html

I know I might be asking for too much but I am not really experienced in
most of the hardcore web development stuff that I've found necessary to
use such things as MHonArc. I attempted to follow what little
instructions I could find to set it up that way and found that I simply
do not know enough.  Is anyone aware of a solution that could be setup
by an amateur? Or at least some better instructions for the methods
mentioned above (written with the amateur in mind).

Thanks for any and all suggestions.

Jared
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)

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From camelia.botez at weizmann.ac.il  Sun Dec 16 09:53:09 2007
From: camelia.botez at weizmann.ac.il (Camelia Botez)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 10:53:09 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-2.1.9
Message-ID: <1197795196.9083.15.camel@cami-as.weizmann.ac.il>

I installed Using Mailman version 2.0.11 on solaris9 and works fine.
Now , we are in process to replace our web server with a linux computer
on which I installed mailman-2.1.9.
How can I migrate all the mailing lists from the old version into the
new one and how can I use the old aliases build when a new list is
opened on the new aliases form ?


From hansen at rc.org  Sun Dec 16 12:25:58 2007
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 03:25:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no dupes across lists?
In-Reply-To: <PC176020071214164945079679f4c789@msapiro>
References: <PC176020071214164945079679f4c789@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240808c38ab8d96bfe@[10.0.1.2]>

That's interesting.

I run Mailman 2.1.5 (Mac OS X 10.4) and have the 'problem' that when someone posts to two lists at a time, I get only one message. I actually do want to get both for archival purposes. If this is not a function of Mailman 2.1.5, I wonder where the other message is cut. :-)

(No need for action from anyone - I was just mumbling aloud).

Allan

At 16:49 -0800 12/14/07, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Gruver, Sandi wrote:
>
>>Does the 'no dupes' option mean that members will not receive a messages
>>sent to more than one list to which they are subscribed?
>
>
>No. It only means that a member will not receive the post from the list
>if (s)he in specifically addressed in To: or Cc: of the post.
>
>If you have lists with duplicate members which are frequently cross
>posted, the new sibling lists 'exclude' feature in Mailman 2.1.10 can
>be used to avoid these duplicate messages.
>
>-- 
>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-- 
Allan Hansen
P.O Box 2423
Cypress, CA 90630
U.S.A.
hansen at rc.org
+1-714-875-8870

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Dec 16 18:34:46 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 02:34:46 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no dupes across lists?
In-Reply-To: <p06240808c38ab8d96bfe@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <PC176020071214164945079679f4c789@msapiro>
	<p06240808c38ab8d96bfe@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <87prx6bl1l.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Allan Hansen writes:

 > That's interesting.
 > 
 > I run Mailman 2.1.5 (Mac OS X 10.4) and have the 'problem' that
 > when someone posts to two lists at a time, I get only one message. I
 > actually do want to get both for archival purposes. If this is not a
 > function of Mailman 2.1.5, I wonder where the other message is
 > cut. :-)

What do you mean by "get"?  I "get" both messages in my system
mailbox, but because I have duplicate suppression on in my MUA, I only
"see" one.  The MUA automatically skips any message with a Message-ID
that it has already seen.

I would assume you've got a similar feature, perhaps not in your MUA
but in the MDA or MTA.

 > 
 > (No need for action from anyone - I was just mumbling aloud).
 > 
 > Allan
 > 
 > At 16:49 -0800 12/14/07, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 > >Gruver, Sandi wrote:
 > >
 > >>Does the 'no dupes' option mean that members will not receive a messages
 > >>sent to more than one list to which they are subscribed?
 > >
 > >
 > >No. It only means that a member will not receive the post from the list
 > >if (s)he in specifically addressed in To: or Cc: of the post.
 > >
 > >If you have lists with duplicate members which are frequently cross
 > >posted, the new sibling lists 'exclude' feature in Mailman 2.1.10 can
 > >be used to avoid these duplicate messages.
 > >
 > >-- 
 > >Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
 > >San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
 > 
 > -- 
 > Allan Hansen
 > P.O Box 2423
 > Cypress, CA 90630
 > U.S.A.
 > hansen at rc.org
 > +1-714-875-8870
 > ------------------------------------------------------
 > Mailman-Users mailing list
 > Mailman-Users at python.org
 > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
 > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
 > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/stephen%40xemacs.org
 > 
 > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From rod at coate.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Dec 16 18:45:01 2007
From: rod at coate.fsnet.co.uk (Rod@freeserve)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:45:01 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit destination
References: <8CA8B2D4472C337FC4DA30AC@srb.local>
Message-ID: <057501c8400b$6529b830$0202a8c0@newbuild>

This happens on my Mailman installation every few dozen posts and I've always assumed
Mailman is objecting to the quotes.

Your guess about the quotes being inserted by some MS mail software is probably right.
Despite asking asked many senders for more information on what they did which might have
triggered this behaviour, I've never managed to get a definitive answer. I wonder whether
it's something to do with copying and pasting addresses, or specifically copying and
pasting them into an address book and then using that.

But does Mailman have to treat this as an implicit address? Of course
'list at icpsr.umich.edu' is not literally exactly the same as list at icpsr.umich.edu , but the
list address is explicitly included within the quotes. Could a future version of Mailman
allow for this and avoid treating quoted addresses as implicit destinations?

Rod

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Burling" <srb at umich.edu>
To: "Mailman Users" <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 4:22 PM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit destination


> One of our lists has someone post to it whose mail is held, with the error:
>
> Blind carbon copies or other implicit destinations are not allowed. Try
> reposting your message by explicitly including the list address in the
> To: or Cc: fields.
>
> But as near as I can tell, she *is* putting the list address in the To:
> field, it's just been munged (presumably by Micro$oft LookOut) to have
> quotes in funny places.  Here's what the To: field looks like from the
> listname.mbox file (edited to protect the innocent):
>
> To: "list at icpsr.umich.edu" <'list at icpsr.umich.edu'>
>
> Are those unnecessary single quotes inside the "<...>" confusing Mailman?
> Or am I missing something really obvious?
>
> --
> Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
> University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
> 330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rod%40coate.fsnet.co.uk
>
> Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>



From cyndi at tikvah.com  Sun Dec 16 19:42:14 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 10:42:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers not working
Message-ID: <200712161842.lBGIgExX028573@a.mail.sonic.net>

One of the regular posters to my mailing list prefers to post from an
address different from the one where she recieves posts.  The first time
she did this, her post came up for moderation and I clicked on "accept" and
also checked the box to have her posts automatically be accepted.

If I go to my accept_these_nonmembers list, her address is in the box (and
has been for a while).

Since then, every time she posts, her messages still get held for
moderation.  I have the option to let them go through, which I do, but now
there is no way to check an option for auto processing.  It's simply
missing.

I realize that I could ask her to subscribe with her posting address and
then disable mail delivery.  But that seems rather roundabout.  Also, my
ISP doesn't allow mass subscribe (they did migrate my lists for me but I
can't get them to do every single add as it comes up), so my subscriber
would have to do the work and she uses a keyboard with great difficulty.
Not to mention that she isn't the only member who will want to post from a
different address and there are legit non-members who post to my list too.
I'd just like the feature to work.

Note that the address the moderation request thinks she is sending from
does exactly match the one in accept_these_nonmembers.  And the reason for
moderation is given as: Post to moderated list.

Here is the moderation information I'm given, with her personal information
edited:

From: <subscriber's address>

Action to take on all these held messages:
   Defer          Accept	    Reject	   Discard   
   
 Preserve messages for the site administrator
 Forward messages (individually) to:
 
Click on the message number to view the individual message, or you can view
all messages from <subscriber's address>
     
[1]  Subject:	<subject>
    Size:	5366 bytes
    Reason:	Post to moderated list
    Received:	Sun Dec 16 05:26:10 2007


Thanks for any assistance you all can give.

Cyndi


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Dec 16 20:27:57 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 11:27:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers not working
In-Reply-To: <200712161842.lBGIgExX028573@a.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712161127570906f4459ac3@msapiro>

Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
>
>Since then, every time she posts, her messages still get held for
>moderation.  I have the option to let them go through, which I do, but now
>there is no way to check an option for auto processing.  It's simply
>missing.


Because her address is already in a *_these_nonmembers filter. Assuming
she is in accept_these_nonmembers and not hold_these_nonmembers, her
post is being held for some other reason.

(Actually, that may not be the reason in this case - see below).


>I realize that I could ask her to subscribe with her posting address and
>then disable mail delivery.  But that seems rather roundabout.


She may already be subscribed.


>Note that the address the moderation request thinks she is sending from
>does exactly match the one in accept_these_nonmembers.  And the reason for
>moderation is given as: Post to moderated list.
>
>Here is the moderation information I'm given, with her personal information
>edited:
>
>From: <subscriber's address>
>
>Action to take on all these held messages:
>   Defer          Accept	    Reject	   Discard   
>   
> Preserve messages for the site administrator
> Forward messages (individually) to:


Here's where I'm confused (thank you Sonic). The reason "Post to
moderated list" says this is a post from a member whose moderate flag
is set. That's the only source of that reason. But, in that case, at
this point, there should be a "Clear this member's moderate flag"
checkbox, so I don't know what's going on.

Check your membership list to see if she is a moderated member.



>Click on the message number to view the individual message, or you can view
>all messages from <subscriber's address>
>     
>[1]  Subject:	<subject>
>    Size:	5366 bytes
>    Reason:	Post to moderated list
>    Received:	Sun Dec 16 05:26:10 2007

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Dec 16 20:31:17 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 11:31:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no dupes across lists?
In-Reply-To: <87prx6bl1l.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC17602007121611311706095382adf2@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Allan Hansen writes:
>
> > That's interesting.
> > 
> > I run Mailman 2.1.5 (Mac OS X 10.4) and have the 'problem' that
> > when someone posts to two lists at a time, I get only one message. I
> > actually do want to get both for archival purposes. If this is not a
> > function of Mailman 2.1.5, I wonder where the other message is
> > cut. :-)
>
>What do you mean by "get"?  I "get" both messages in my system
>mailbox, but because I have duplicate suppression on in my MUA, I only
>"see" one.  The MUA automatically skips any message with a Message-ID
>that it has already seen.
>
>I would assume you've got a similar feature, perhaps not in your MUA
>but in the MDA or MTA.


This is definitely a gmail 'feature' to the extent that you won't see
your own list posts because they are 'duplicates' of the sent message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Dec 16 20:44:43 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 11:44:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit destination
In-Reply-To: <057501c8400b$6529b830$0202a8c0@newbuild>
Message-ID: <PC17602007121611444304065382ad41@msapiro>

Rod at freeserve wrote:
>
>But does Mailman have to treat this as an implicit address? Of course
>'list at icpsr.umich.edu' is not literally exactly the same as list at icpsr.umich.edu , but the
>list address is explicitly included within the quotes. Could a future version of Mailman
>allow for this and avoid treating quoted addresses as implicit destinations?


I don't think Mailman should be in the business of guessing how to
re-parse an email address. As I mentioned in another post in this
thread
(<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-December/059534.html>),
the Python email.Utils.parseaddr() function returns the single quotes
as part of the parsed address. If this is a significant problem, I
think the email library is the place to address it.

Also, the issue can be easily avoided by putting the quoted address in
acceptable_aliases.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cyndi at tikvah.com  Sun Dec 16 20:57:00 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 11:57:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers not working
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712161127570906f4459ac3@msapiro> (message from Mark
	Sapiro on Sun, 16 Dec 2007 11:27:57 -0800)
References: <PC1760200712161127570906f4459ac3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200712161957.lBGJv0vd015003@a.mail.sonic.net>

   Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 11:27:57 -0800
   From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>

   Here's where I'm confused (thank you Sonic). The reason "Post to
   moderated list" says this is a post from a member whose moderate flag
   is set. That's the only source of that reason.

Unless the wording is slightly different and I'm misremembering, it says
this also when messages from non-members are being held for moderation (I
set up the list so that mail from non-members would come to me for
moderation as opposed to being rejected).

   But, in that case, at this point, there should be a "Clear this member's
   moderate flag" checkbox, so I don't know what's going on.

Well, there should be an option to set auto posting status.  It's there for
all other non-members.

   Check your membership list to see if she is a moderated member.

I just checked and she is not listed as a member under that address.

BTW, I'm using version 2.1.9.

Thanks,
Cyndi


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Dec 16 21:18:45 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 12:18:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers not working
In-Reply-To: <200712161957.lBGJv0vd015003@a.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712161218450562c57db19f@msapiro>

Cyndi Norwitz wrote:

>   From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
>
>   Here's where I'm confused (thank you Sonic). The reason "Post to
>   moderated list" says this is a post from a member whose moderate flag
>   is set. That's the only source of that reason.
>
>Unless the wording is slightly different and I'm misremembering, it says
>this also when messages from non-members are being held for moderation (I
>set up the list so that mail from non-members would come to me for
>moderation as opposed to being rejected).


It should say "Post by non-member to a members-only list" in that case.


>   But, in that case, at this point, there should be a "Clear this member's
>   moderate flag" checkbox, so I don't know what's going on.
>
>Well, there should be an option to set auto posting status.  It's there for
>all other non-members.


It will never be there if the user's (lower-cased) address is already
in one of *_these_nonmembers.


>   Check your membership list to see if she is a moderated member.
>
>I just checked and she is not listed as a member under that address.


How about another address in her message. If any address in a From:,
Reply-To: or Sender: header or the envelope sender is a list member,
the post will be considered to be from that member for purposes of
moderation.


>BTW, I'm using version 2.1.9.


Actually, I think you are using Sonic's Mailman which we've already
determined is non-standard at least wrt mass subscribe.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Dec 16 21:24:32 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 12:24:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no dupes across lists?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007121611311706095382adf2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC17602007121612243204067b49a816@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>This is definitely a gmail 'feature' to the extent that you won't see
>your own list posts because they are 'duplicates' of the sent message.


I meant to say "... to the extent that you won't even see your own list
posts ...".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Dec 16 21:41:38 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 12:41:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <1197795196.9083.15.camel@cami-as.weizmann.ac.il>
Message-ID: <PC17602007121612413809845382af7e@msapiro>

Camelia Botez wrote:

>I installed Using Mailman version 2.0.11 on solaris9 and works fine.
>Now , we are in process to replace our web server with a linux computer
>on which I installed mailman-2.1.9.
>How can I migrate all the mailing lists from the old version into the
>new one


Mailman is very good at updating lists from older versions. All you
need to do to migrate the list itself is move the
lists/<listname>/config.db files from the old installation to the new.
You need to make sure there is not already a
lists/<listname>/config.pck or config.pck.last, because if there is,
Mailman won't see the config.db. See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-July/057770.html>.
Note that in that post, I say the one can run

bin/config_list -i /dev/null listname

to force 'listname' to be converted. Actually, just running
bin/list_lists is sufficient to convert all the old lists after there
config.db files have been installed. Also see the advice in that post
about removing the config.db after the list is converted.


>and how can I use the old aliases build when a new list is
>opened on the new aliases form ?


I'm not sure how your aliases are being generated, but the old aliases
are no good. After you get your lists migrated, you should be able to
run bin/genaliases to create (or at least list) the required aliases.

One final thing is archives. I recommend just moving the
archives/private/<listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox files from the old
server, checking them with bin/cleanarch and then building new
archives with bin/arch --wipe.

You want to have Mailman not running (bin/mailmanctl stop) during the
list migration and .mbox move process or you could lose archived
messages if posts are processed after the list exists on the new
server and before the .mbox is moved.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cyndi at tikvah.com  Sun Dec 16 21:47:01 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 12:47:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers not working
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712161218450562c57db19f@msapiro> (message from Mark
	Sapiro on Sun, 16 Dec 2007 12:18:45 -0800)
References: <PC1760200712161218450562c57db19f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200712162047.lBGKl14P003916@b.mail.sonic.net>

   Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 12:18:45 -0800
   From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>

   >   Check your membership list to see if she is a moderated member.
   >
   >I just checked and she is not listed as a member under that address.

   How about another address in her message. If any address in a From:,
   Reply-To: or Sender: header or the envelope sender is a list member,
   the post will be considered to be from that member for purposes of
   moderation.

Ahhh...I checked her latest post and she has reply-to set to a different
address.  And that address is indeed subscribed to the list.  Because it
never was a checkbox option in the moderation section of the admin site, I
never unchecked the moderation box.  I have unchecked it now from the
members list.  

I will let you know if it doesn't solve the problem.

   >BTW, I'm using version 2.1.9.

   Actually, I think you are using Sonic's Mailman which we've already
   determined is non-standard at least wrt mass subscribe.

Now, now, I think an ISP disabling mass subscribe for its hundreds
(thousands?) of users it doesn't know personally is pretty reasonable.
It's a PITA for responsible list owners like me but there are some
irresponsible people out there and many of them think nothing of
subscribing lots of people to mailing lists without their permission.
After all, most Mailman users install it on their own servers, so obviously
they trust themselves.  As far as I can tell, the rest of the setup is
pretty standard.

Thanks for helping me track this oddness down.

Cyndi


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Dec 16 22:08:34 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:08:34 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers not working
In-Reply-To: <200712162047.lBGKl14P003916@b.mail.sonic.net>
References: <PC1760200712161218450562c57db19f@msapiro>
	<200712162047.lBGKl14P003916@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <p06240800c38b435972c0@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/16/07, Cyndi Norwitz wrote:

>  Now, now, I think an ISP disabling mass subscribe for its hundreds
>  (thousands?) of users it doesn't know personally is pretty reasonable.

Fair enough, but if they're going to make modifications then it's up 
to them to provide all the necessary support for the product they're 
offering to their customers.

>  After all, most Mailman users install it on their own servers, so obviously
>  they trust themselves.  As far as I can tell, the rest of the setup is
>  pretty standard.

Mailman was never intended to be used in a service provider 
environment.  To the extent it is, the onus of providing all support 
for the product as installed falls upon the service provider.  It's 
not really fair for them to install something and then take a 
completely hands-off attitude towards supporting it.

You wouldn't buy a car from a dealer who was unwilling to do any 
repairs or warranty work, but who instead forced you to ship the 
vehicle back to the manufacturer every time.  I don't see any 
difference here.


We try to be as helpful as we can, but we really shouldn't be the 
support department for every single ISP in the world who wants to 
install our software but who then can't be bothered to provide any 
local support.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Dec 16 22:28:32 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 13:28:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers not working
In-Reply-To: <200712162047.lBGKl14P003916@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020071216132832017192e12cab@msapiro>

Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
>   From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
>
>   How about another address in her message. If any address in a From:,
>   Reply-To: or Sender: header or the envelope sender is a list member,
>   the post will be considered to be from that member for purposes of
>   moderation.
>
>Ahhh...I checked her latest post and she has reply-to set to a different
>address.  And that address is indeed subscribed to the list.  Because it
>never was a checkbox option in the moderation section of the admin site, I
>never unchecked the moderation box.  I have unchecked it now from the
>members list.  
>
>I will let you know if it doesn't solve the problem.


I am confident that it will. This is an inconsistency in Mailman.
Mailman sees the Reply-To: is a moderated member and holds the post
for moderation, but admindb only uses the From: [1] to determine what
checkboxes to show you.

The problem here is the first time, admindb showed you the nonmember
filter boxes because the From: was not a member, but that wasn't why
the post was held, so adding the From: to accept_these_nonmembers
didn't do any good.

This is something to be aware of going forward. If the post is held for
"Post to moderated list" and the "Add to one of these sender filters"
option is offered, adding the From: address to a filter isn't going to
work because this is really a post from a moderated member, but
admindb is checking the wrong address.


>   Actually, I think you are using Sonic's Mailman which we've already
>   determined is non-standard at least wrt mass subscribe.
>
>Now, now, I think an ISP disabling mass subscribe for its hundreds
>(thousands?) of users it doesn't know personally is pretty reasonable.
>It's a PITA for responsible list owners like me but there are some
>irresponsible people out there and many of them think nothing of
>subscribing lots of people to mailing lists without their permission.
>After all, most Mailman users install it on their own servers, so obviously
>they trust themselves.  As far as I can tell, the rest of the setup is
>pretty standard.


Don't misunderstand me. I wasn't trying to say anything negative about
Sonic (except maybe they are not complying with the GPL if they
haven't contributed their mods back to the project). I'm only trying
to say that I can only tell you how standard Mailman does (or should)
work. I can't analyze code that I can't see.


[1] The underlying issue here is there are two methods for getting
senders in Mailman's Message class. get_sender() returns the first
address found in From:,  Sender: and envelope_from (or Sender:, From:
and envelope_from if mm_cfg.USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER is true), while
get_senders() returns a list of all addresses in (by default) From:,
envelope_from, Reply-To: and Sender:. Initially, the entire
get_senders() list is checked to find the first address that is a list
member. If found, the post is 'from' a member and that member's
moderate status is checked. If none of the addresses is a member, only
the single get_sender() address is checked against *_these_nonmembers,
and only the single get_sender() address is used by admindb to
determine what checkbox options to show.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cyndi at tikvah.com  Sun Dec 16 23:09:47 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 14:09:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Topics (was: accept_these_nonmembers not
	working)
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c38b435972c0@[192.168.1.101]> (message from Brad
	Knowles on Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:08:34 -0600)
References: <PC1760200712161218450562c57db19f@msapiro>
	<200712162047.lBGKl14P003916@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<p06240800c38b435972c0@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <200712162209.lBGM9lLd025728@b.mail.sonic.net>

   Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:08:34 -0600
   From: Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>

   Mailman was never intended to be used in a service provider environment.
   To the extent it is, the onus of providing all support for the product
   as installed falls upon the service provider.  It's not really fair for
   them to install something and then take a completely hands-off attitude
   towards supporting it.

   You wouldn't buy a car from a dealer who was unwilling to do any repairs
   or warranty work, but who instead forced you to ship the vehicle back to
   the manufacturer every time.  I don't see any difference here.

   We try to be as helpful as we can, but we really shouldn't be the
   support department for every single ISP in the world who wants to
   install our software but who then can't be bothered to provide any local
   support.

Okay, this explains your attitude in previous replies to me.  I just
couldn't figure out why you kept dissing my ISP, who is pretty local
(though spreading out around Calif) so you probably don't even know them.

I love my ISP and I don't say that lightly.  Nor am I implying they've
never pissed me off before.  This is a place where the CEO replies
helpfully to newsgroup posts (that's their prefered customer communication
area, sonic.* usenet groups), even (rare) ones that insult him, a place
where they keep adding new features and functions without raising prices
(completely opposite of my old ISP which was the excellent best.com until
they got bought out by Verio and features started going poof and support
went out the window...or over the ocean).

It is the case though that Mailman isn't one of their top priorities.  Oh,
they maintain it and they have dealt with my more pressing needs.  It's
hardly "hands-off."  When I posted to the usenet group about mass subscribe
not working, they agreed to migrate my subscription lists for me.  When I
had trouble starting new lists, they tracked it down to a bug on their end
and fixed it.  They are responsive.

On the other hand, bothering the ISP staff isn't what I want to do for
general Mailman questions.  Like this issue of accept_these_nonmembers.  Or
questions about setup and features.  These belong in a general discussion.

I have tried very hard to separate out my questions into things that appear
to be local issues and things that are about Mailman in general.  The
former goes to the Sonic group, though it's not well populated there.

When I did a search for a general Mailman support discussion list, I found
this one.  If I am wrong about this list's purpose, please tell me!  Is
this list mainly for announcing version updates, reporting bugs, and asking
for new features?  If so, I'd still stay, because those things interest me.
But if there is a better list for the general user "how do I do X?" or
"help me troubleshoot Y" questions, let me know and I'll go join it.

Cyndi


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Dec 17 01:49:31 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:49:31 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit destination
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007121611444304065382ad41@msapiro>
References: <057501c8400b$6529b830$0202a8c0@newbuild>
	<PC17602007121611444304065382ad41@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87ejdmf8mc.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:
 > Rod at freeserve wrote:
 > >
 > >But does Mailman have to treat this as an implicit address?

Mark was generous.  Yes, it does.  Mailman is doing the right thing.
Your user's system is broken.  Just because people rarely die from
misconfigured mail programs doesn't mean they are free from the
ethical obligation to fix them.  A tool under their control is causing
problems for others (specifically you!)  They should fix their tools,
or pay to have them fixed.  Just like a car with bad brake lights.
Sure, AFAIK nobody has died from a misconfigured MUA yet, but it's
basically the same attitude: "Watch out world, here I come!"

 > If this is a significant problem, I think the email library is the
 > place to address it.

If it's that much of a problem, I would suggest configuring the MTA to
reject it, myself.  But I think a better approach is to explain to the
user that her mail is being lost and delayed because it doesn't
conform to the standards that most systems do.  It's not just Rob's
list-serving system where this will happen.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Dec 17 02:26:46 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:26:46 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Topics (was: accept_these_nonmembers
	not	working)
In-Reply-To: <200712162209.lBGM9lLd025728@b.mail.sonic.net>
References: <PC1760200712161218450562c57db19f@msapiro>
	<200712162047.lBGKl14P003916@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<p06240800c38b435972c0@[192.168.1.101]>
	<200712162209.lBGM9lLd025728@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <87d4t6f6w9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Cyndi Norwitz writes:

 > On the other hand, bothering the ISP staff isn't what I want to do

But you'll bother the Mailman developers because they do it for free?

Think about it a little.  You like your ISP because they don't charge
much, which is because they free ride on the work of projects like
Mailman.  Mailman does not charge for the resources used in
development and support, which is a good thing.  It enables such free
riding, and that is a good thing, too.  Not everybody who would
benefit from using Mailman can afford to return money or hours to the
project immediately.

But those resources are nonetheless real.  Hours spent on email,
debugging, and development of new features.  Mark Sapiro's time is
*very* expensive, despite his generous choice to put a price of zero
on it, because he is a core developer.  Try to encourage your ISP's
staff to participate in the Mailman lists, at least when your problems
at their host are under discussion.  That will beneift everybody.



From cyndi at tikvah.com  Mon Dec 17 02:38:03 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:38:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Topics (was:
	accept_these_nonmembers	not	working)
In-Reply-To: <87d4t6f6w9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (stephen@xemacs.org)
References: <PC1760200712161218450562c57db19f@msapiro>
	<200712162047.lBGKl14P003916@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<p06240800c38b435972c0@[192.168.1.101]>
	<200712162209.lBGM9lLd025728@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<87d4t6f6w9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <200712170138.lBH1c3MN015657@b.mail.sonic.net>

   From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org>
   Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:26:46 +0900

   Cyndi Norwitz writes:
    > On the other hand, bothering the ISP staff isn't what I want to do

   But you'll bother the Mailman developers because they do it for free?

I do not wish to take over the list with meta-discussion but your comments
are completely uncalled for.

When I found this mailing list, it appeared to be a general discussion list
for Mailman users.  As I said before, if I was mistaken about the purpose
of the list then I hope Mark or another list owner will correct me and
guide me to a more appropriate venue.

And, actually, my ISP's prices are not dirt cheap, though they are
reasonable.  I like them because they're good people.

FWIW, I also give away countless hours of my time doing work I could be
getting paid for.  That's what my mailing lists are: support for people
with disabilities.  Even when someone phones me for my business I usually
end up giving them an hour of advice for a $5 sale.  My choice.  When I
can, I do direct them to better places for the information, which is what I
hope will happen here, if in fact I have been posting to the wrong place.

Cyndi


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Dec 17 03:49:22 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:49:22 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Topics (was: accept_these_nonmembers
 not	working)
In-Reply-To: <200712170138.lBH1c3MN015657@b.mail.sonic.net>
References: <PC1760200712161218450562c57db19f@msapiro>
	<200712162047.lBGKl14P003916@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<p06240800c38b435972c0@[192.168.1.101]>
	<200712162209.lBGM9lLd025728@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<87d4t6f6w9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<200712170138.lBH1c3MN015657@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <p06240801c38b90e09ec8@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/16/07, Cyndi Norwitz quoted Stephen J. Turnbull:

>>    But you'll bother the Mailman developers because they do it for free?
>
>  I do not wish to take over the list with meta-discussion but your comments
>  are completely uncalled for.

IMO, the truth is somewhere between those two points.  Stephen may 
have been a bit harsh, but there's definitely a kernel of reality 
there.

>  When I found this mailing list, it appeared to be a general discussion list
>  for Mailman users.  As I said before, if I was mistaken about the purpose
>  of the list then I hope Mark or another list owner will correct me and
>  guide me to a more appropriate venue.

We have had numerous historical problems with users of software that 
have been more or less heavily customized by other groups (e.g., 
cPanel, Plesk, Apple, etc...), and because of the amount of changes 
that have been made to the code and to the method in which they 
install and administer their customized version, there is relatively 
little we can do to help their users.

If you've got a problem with Plesk's modified version of Mailman, you 
need to go talk to the Plesk guys.  If you've got a problem with 
cPanel's modified version of Mailman, you need to go talk to the 
cPanel guys, although we know from past experience that they're not 
that responsive.  If you've got a problem with Apple's modified 
version of Mailman, then don't even bother to go talk to Apple 
because we know from past experience that no one ever there will ever 
listen to you.

If you've got a problem with the Debian or Red Hat binary packages, 
those respective communities actually have their own support 
resources that you should be able to use for these sorts of things, 
and you should be able to contact their maintainers.


So, now the question becomes how does your ISP fit into this picture?

>                                                                  When I
>  can, I do direct them to better places for the information, which is what I
>  hope will happen here, if in fact I have been posting to the wrong place.

This is not necessarily the wrong place for you to be asking your 
questions.  Just keep in mind that we've been burned before by 
several other parties, and when people start talking about 
proprietary versions of Mailman, or non-standard configurations of 
Mailman, we may tend to get a little touchy.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at python.org  Mon Dec 17 03:34:39 2007
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:34:39 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Topics (was: accept_these_nonmembers not
	working)
In-Reply-To: <200712162209.lBGM9lLd025728@b.mail.sonic.net>
References: <PC1760200712161218450562c57db19f@msapiro>
	<200712162047.lBGKl14P003916@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<p06240800c38b435972c0@[192.168.1.101]>
	<200712162209.lBGM9lLd025728@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <p06240800c38b8a5f1889@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/16/07, Cyndi Norwitz wrote:

>  When I did a search for a general Mailman support discussion list, I found
>  this one.  If I am wrong about this list's purpose, please tell me!  Is
>  this list mainly for announcing version updates, reporting bugs, and asking
>  for new features?  If so, I'd still stay, because those things interest me.
>  But if there is a better list for the general user "how do I do X?" or
>  "help me troubleshoot Y" questions, let me know and I'll go join it.

In addition to my duties in helping to keep the whole mail system for 
python.org up and running, I am also one of the co-owners/moderators 
of this mailing list, and I am currently the only active 
co-owner/moderator for this list.  No one has explicitly laid out all 
the rules for me as co-owner/moderator, but we have accumulated some 
standard practices over time.

One standard practice is that the core developers should be protected 
from having to answer or participate in any discussions where their 
time could be better spent elsewhere.  Of course, the core developers 
are more than welcome to participate in any discussions that they 
like.  We just try to keep as much stuff off their backs as we can.


Mark is one such core developer.  He's also one of the most prolific 
posters on this mailing list, in part because there are so many 
questions that get asked that I am not able to answer, and so they 
have to fall to someone who knows the code better than I do.  But I 
still try to protect him as much as I can.

Many other questions would have been answered by people who had read 
the appropriate FAQ entries or the archives of the list, although I 
must confess that sometimes people don't know what terms to use when 
searching the FAQ or the archives.


As one of the co-owners/moderators of this list, I would say that 
you're welcome to ask whatever questions on this list that you may 
have regarding the installation, operations, and maintenance of 
Mailman, so long as you can be reasonably sure of a few things:

	1.  The problem you're having is not unique to your particular
		customized non-standard installation.
	2.  The problem you're having is not addressed in the documentation.
	3.  The problem you're having is not addressed in the FAQ.
	4.  The problem you're having is not discussed in the archives.

Note that #1 applies to OS, distribution, or other specific versions 
of Mailman that have been put together by other parties, including 
Apple, Debian, Red Hat, cPanel, Plesk, etc....


If you downloaded and installed Mailman yourself from the source 
tarballs that we provide through the links listed at 
<http://www.list.org/download.html>, then you don't have to worry 
about #1.  If you installed Mailman yourself from a binary package, 
then by definition that did not come from one of our official 
sources, and you may have to worry about #1.  If you installed a 
product from some commercial company that incorporates something they 
call "Mailman", then you almost certainly do have to worry about #1.

If you are a user of a service provided by someone else, and the 
service they provide is called "Mailman", then you may or may not 
need to worry about #1, depending on how that service provider 
installed their software.  Until you can be reasonably certain as to 
what types of problems fall into which categories, you should first 
ask your service provider for support on the services they have 
installed and make available to you.

Keep in mind that even if your service provider does have a 
completely bog-standard installation of Mailman, there's lots of site 
or list administrative tasks that you may want/need to do that may 
require direct privileged access to the Mailman installation, and 
therefore your service provider would almost certainly have to do any 
of those tasks for you.


 From what I've been able to gather, your ISP has made at least some 
customizations of their Mailman installation.  Unfortunately, as a 
user, it can be difficult for you to tell what problems you are 
seeing that are a result from their customized installation, and what 
are a result of standard features within Mailman.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team
Co-moderator of mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From lev at vpac.org  Mon Dec 17 07:59:34 2007
From: lev at vpac.org (Lev Lafayette)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:59:34 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Aliases for list...
Message-ID: <1197874774.27252.5.camel@sys09.in.vpac.org>


Doubtless trivial but I've missed it in the documentation :-)

Is there a special mailman mechanism to alias lists e.g., I want posts
to listB at domain to end up at listA at domain.

(A workaround for renaming lists that is trivial, rather than
nontrivial)

Regards,


Lev


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Dec 17 08:07:17 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:07:17 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Topics
	(was:	accept_these_nonmembers	not	working)
In-Reply-To: <200712170138.lBH1c3MN015657@b.mail.sonic.net>
References: <PC1760200712161218450562c57db19f@msapiro>
	<200712162047.lBGKl14P003916@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<p06240800c38b435972c0@[192.168.1.101]>
	<200712162209.lBGM9lLd025728@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<87d4t6f6w9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<200712170138.lBH1c3MN015657@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <87bq8pg5p6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Cyndi Norwitz writes:

 > I do not wish to take over the list with meta-discussion but your
 > comments are completely uncalled for.

Since you misunderstand what I wrote, as well as the consequences of
what you wrote, I have to disagree.

 > When I found this mailing list, it appeared to be a general
 > discussion list for Mailman users.  As I said before, if I was
 > mistaken about the purpose of the list then I hope Mark or another
 > list owner will correct me and guide me to a more appropriate
 > venue.

It *is* the right place.  There is none more appropriate.  If there
were, you would have been told so a week ago.  The problem here is
that you haven't brought all of the relevant information to the table.
That's not your fault, you don't have it.

What is a misguided choice is refusing to "bother" the only people who
can provide that information.  The worst thing that can happen is they
might say "no", right?

 > And, actually, my ISP's prices are not dirt cheap, though they are
 > reasonable.

What I said is they would be more expensive if they were paying for
Mailman.  Let's not kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.  Which
could happen; cf. Brad's post for pointers to *un*reasonable vendors
who distribute Mailman.  As I wrote before, I don't fault anyone for
free riding; to everything there is a season, including paybacks for
free software you have benefitted from.  Their time will surely come,
in its time.

But you can help by asking them to get in touch with Mailman when it's
appropriate.  This would have been a good time.

 > I like them because they're good people.

In which case, they won't mind contributing a few minutes to reading
your threads to make sure there's nothing the Mailman support staff
needs to know, right?

 > FWIW, I also give away countless hours of my time doing work I
 > could be getting paid for.

It's not about money.  It's not about who has paid their dues or
where.  I believe, and have throughout, that when you (you,
personally) have something to contribute to Mailman, you will.  If you
know what it is.

I'm telling you one thing you (and anyone in your situation) can do
right now: save Mark time by getting your ISP's staff involved, at
least to the extent of a CC.  They're the only ones who can say
exactly what those local changes are so they and the Mailman staff can
try to figure out whether they do or don't impact your problems and
solutions.

The work can be done without that information, but it's harder and
more frustrating.  Unnecessarily so, as far as we know until you get
in touch with your ISP.

Regards,

From kkchn.cdac at gmail.com  Mon Dec 17 08:28:18 2007
From: kkchn.cdac at gmail.com (kk CHN)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 12:58:18 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught bounce notification: Why this message ,
	I haven't sent Any mails
Message-ID: <5e4d7fb90712162328t58b28518l966863ad61f4ff46@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everybody ;

I have  few mailing lists running  on Mailman(I am the list administrator
for these lists ) :  for the last few days I am getting a message regularly
with subject line   like this : Uncaught bounce notification


I havn't sent any mails to the address ("siif at boa-graphics.com
"<http://www.webmail.cdac.in/twig/index.php?&s%5Bmailbox%5D=INBOX&s%5BmailGroup%5D=%2A&s%5Bmail_startmsg%5D=1&s%5Bsortby%5D=date&s%5Bsortbyway%5D=1&s%5Bdelete-return%5D=msgview&s%5Bmailtree%5D=0%7C&c%5Bf%5D=mail&c%5Ba%5D=compose&form%5Bto%5D=siif at boa-graphics.com>)
still   I am receiving the "  Uncaught bounce notification "   email to my
list administration id && got annoyed How can I control this Or whats
happening here with my  mail system ?

Anybody here plese help me why this happened , what I have to take care for
not repeat this again  .

THANKS IN ADVANCE
KK
The content of the message as follows





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For more information see:
http://lists.mytestsite.com/mailman/admin/technical/bounce
<http://lists.iosn.net/mailman/admin/iosn-technical/bounce>


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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:05:16 +0530
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From hansen at rc.org  Mon Dec 17 09:52:11 2007
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 00:52:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no dupes across lists?
In-Reply-To: <87prx6bl1l.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC176020071214164945079679f4c789@msapiro>
	<p06240808c38ab8d96bfe@[10.0.1.2]>
	<87prx6bl1l.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240804c38be0d8f350@[10.0.1.2]>

At 2:34 +0900 12/17/07, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>Allan Hansen writes:
>
> > That's interesting.
> > 
> > I run Mailman 2.1.5 (Mac OS X 10.4) and have the 'problem' that
> > when someone posts to two lists at a time, I get only one message. I
> > actually do want to get both for archival purposes. If this is not a
> > function of Mailman 2.1.5, I wonder where the other message is
> > cut. :-)
>
>What do you mean by "get"?  I "get" both messages in my system
>mailbox, but because I have duplicate suppression on in my MUA, I only
>"see" one.  The MUA automatically skips any message with a Message-ID
>that it has already seen.

More detail:

One message from a subscriber's MUA goes to two lists in Mailman because that person is addressing it using

To: list1 at abc.com, list2 at abc.com

The subscriber (who is not I) is subscribed to both lis1 and list2 (I verified this).
I'm also subscribed to both list1 and list2 (also verified).

Mailman is the actual recipient of this message. However, being a listserver, Mailman becomes the originator (literally) of two new messages, one for the subscribers of list1 and another for the subscribers of list2. It has to be two messages, because one message has additional headers and a footer added for list1 and the other has headers and a footer added for list2. In fact, Mailman even adds the Sender: header with the list as the sender.

I'm subscribed to both list1 and list2, so I'll expect to see two different messages being picked up by my MUA. One message with Sender: list1 at abc.com and another with Sender: list2 at abc.com.

This, in fact, is how it worked in a previous list server (ListStar) that I used before Mailman.

In Mailman I'm seeing only the message corresponding to list2.

My MTA is Postfix and my MUA is Eudora (both running under Mac OS X 10.4.11).

I cannot imagine my MUA comparing the two messages and throwing one out, as the message bodies are, in fact, different. Ditto for the MDA and MTA.

Allan

>
>I would assume you've got a similar feature, perhaps not in your MUA
>but in the MDA or MTA.
>
> > 
> > (No need for action from anyone - I was just mumbling aloud).
> > 
> > Allan
> > 
> > At 16:49 -0800 12/14/07, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> > >Gruver, Sandi wrote:
> > >
> > >>Does the 'no dupes' option mean that members will not receive a messages
> > >>sent to more than one list to which they are subscribed?
> > >
> > >
> > >No. It only means that a member will not receive the post from the list
> > >if (s)he in specifically addressed in To: or Cc: of the post.
> > >
> > >If you have lists with duplicate members which are frequently cross
> > >posted, the new sibling lists 'exclude' feature in Mailman 2.1.10 can
> > >be used to avoid these duplicate messages.
> > >
> > >-- 
> > >Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> > >San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> > 
> > -- 
> > Allan Hansen
> > P.O Box 2423
> > Cypress, CA 90630
> > U.S.A.
> > hansen at rc.org
> > +1-714-875-8870
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/stephen%40xemacs.org
> > 
> > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

-- 
Allan Hansen
P.O Box 2423
Cypress, CA 90630
U.S.A.
hansen at rc.org
+1-714-875-8870

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Dec 17 11:12:17 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:12:17 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no dupes across lists?
In-Reply-To: <p06240804c38be0d8f350@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <PC176020071214164945079679f4c789@msapiro>
	<p06240808c38ab8d96bfe@[10.0.1.2]>
	<87prx6bl1l.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240804c38be0d8f350@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <871w9lfx4u.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Allan Hansen writes:

 > One message from a subscriber's MUA goes to two lists in Mailman
 > because that person is addressing it using
 > 
 > To: list1 at abc.com, list2 at abc.com

[subscriptions of poster and recipient to list1 and list2 verified]

 > Mailman is the actual recipient of this message. However, being a
 > listserver, Mailman becomes the originator (literally) of two new
 > messages,

This may be true "literally", but it is definitely not true from the
point of view of Mailman or RFC 2822.  In fact Mailman will preserve
the Message-ID header, and thus the identity of the two messages.
This behavior conforms to RFC 2822.

 > one for the subscribers of list1 and another for the
 > subscribers of list2. It has to be two messages, because one message
 > has additional headers and a footer added for list1 and the other has
 > headers and a footer added for list2. In fact, Mailman even adds the
 > Sender: header with the list as the sender. 

RFC 2822 headers are not part of the message in the sense relevant to
duplicate pruning.  Messing with those headers (except Message-ID, of
course) should never change the identity of the message in the sense
of RFC 2822 (AFAIK, I haven't read it with that exact point in mind,
though).

 > I'm subscribed to both list1 and list2, so I'll expect to see two
 > different messages being picked up by my MUA. One message with Sender:
 > list1 at abc.com and another with Sender: list2 at abc.com.

I don't suppose list1 is an umbrella list, with list2 subscribed to
it?  Or vice versa?  (I don't know for sure that this could lead to
the described effect, but I also don't see offhand how to prove it
couldn't.)

 > In Mailman I'm seeing only the message corresponding to list2.
 > 
 > My MTA is Postfix and my MUA is Eudora (both running under Mac OS X
 > 10.4.11).

Eudora is a full-featured MUA; I would imagine it can suppress dupes.

 > I cannot imagine my MUA comparing the two messages and throwing one
 > out, as the message bodies are, in fact, different. Ditto for the MDA
 > and MTA. 

I can't imagine it, either.  But no duplicate-pruning agent I've seen
attempts to compare bodies.  Instead, they use the Message-ID header,
and assume that two messages with the same Message-ID are the same
message in the relevant sense.  Mailman does not touch this header,
because it interprets the addition of body headers and footers, and
even removal of unwanted content, to *not* change the identity of the
message.  (IIRC Mailman does add a Resent-Message-ID, however.)  So
duplicate-pruning agents will suppress one of the messages.

Mailman's internal no-dupes and not-me-too features work differently:
if an explicit recipient address (resp, the from address for
not-me-too) in the message's headers (a) is an exact match for a
subscriber address and (b) its subscription has the no-dupes (resp,
not-me-too) flag set, Mailman does not queue a delivery to that
subscriber address.  This also does not involve an attempt to compare
message bodies.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Dec 17 11:11:55 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 04:11:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no dupes across lists?
In-Reply-To: <p06240804c38be0d8f350@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <PC176020071214164945079679f4c789@msapiro>
	<p06240808c38ab8d96bfe@[10.0.1.2]>
	<87prx6bl1l.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240804c38be0d8f350@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <A30DE3E8-4E95-4CDA-9F8A-71EF9EA6FFE3@shub-internet.org>

Check your Message-ID: headers. IIRC, Mailman doesn't change those  
when taking an incoming message and sending that back out.

In addition I happen to know from personal experience that Eudora has  
some very powerful duplicate suppression capabilities -- they are one  
of the few tools that helps keep me sane.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-Internet.org>

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 17, 2007, at 2:52 AM, Allan Hansen <hansen at rc.org> wrote:

> At 2:34 +0900 12/17/07, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>> Allan Hansen writes:
>>
>>> That's interesting.
>>>
>>> I run Mailman 2.1.5 (Mac OS X 10.4) and have the 'problem' that
>>> when someone posts to two lists at a time, I get only one message. I
>>> actually do want to get both for archival purposes. If this is not a
>>> function of Mailman 2.1.5, I wonder where the other message is
>>> cut. :-)
>>
>> What do you mean by "get"?  I "get" both messages in my system
>> mailbox, but because I have duplicate suppression on in my MUA, I  
>> only
>> "see" one.  The MUA automatically skips any message with a Message-ID
>> that it has already seen.
>
> More detail:
>
> One message from a subscriber's MUA goes to two lists in Mailman  
> because that person is addressing it using
>
> To: list1 at abc.com, list2 at abc.com
>
> The subscriber (who is not I) is subscribed to both lis1 and list2  
> (I verified this).
> I'm also subscribed to both list1 and list2 (also verified).
>
> Mailman is the actual recipient of this message. However, being a  
> listserver, Mailman becomes the originator (literally) of two new  
> messages, one for the subscribers of list1 and another for the  
> subscribers of list2. It has to be two messages, because one message  
> has additional headers and a footer added for list1 and the other  
> has headers and a footer added for list2. In fact, Mailman even adds  
> the Sender: header with the list as the sender.
>
> I'm subscribed to both list1 and list2, so I'll expect to see two  
> different messages being picked up by my MUA. One message with  
> Sender: list1 at abc.com and another with Sender: list2 at abc.com.
>
> This, in fact, is how it worked in a previous list server (ListStar)  
> that I used before Mailman.
>
> In Mailman I'm seeing only the message corresponding to list2.
>
> My MTA is Postfix and my MUA is Eudora (both running under Mac OS X  
> 10.4.11).
>
> I cannot imagine my MUA comparing the two messages and throwing one  
> out, as the message bodies are, in fact, different. Ditto for the  
> MDA and MTA.
>
> Allan
>
>>
>> I would assume you've got a similar feature, perhaps not in your MUA
>> but in the MDA or MTA.
>>
>>>
>>> (No need for action from anyone - I was just mumbling aloud).
>>>
>>> Allan
>>>
>>> At 16:49 -0800 12/14/07, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>>> Gruver, Sandi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Does the 'no dupes' option mean that members will not receive a  
>>>>> messages
>>>>> sent to more than one list to which they are subscribed?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No. It only means that a member will not receive the post from  
>>>> the list
>>>> if (s)he in specifically addressed in To: or Cc: of the post.
>>>>
>>>> If you have lists with duplicate members which are frequently cross
>>>> posted, the new sibling lists 'exclude' feature in Mailman 2.1.10  
>>>> can
>>>> be used to avoid these duplicate messages.
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>>>> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B.  
>>>> Dylan
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Allan Hansen
>>> P.O Box 2423
>>> Cypress, CA 90630
>>> U.S.A.
>>> hansen at rc.org
>>> +1-714-875-8870
>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>>> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>>> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/stephen%40xemacs.org
>>>
>>> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
> -- 
> Allan Hansen
> P.O Box 2423
> Cypress, CA 90630
> U.S.A.
> hansen at rc.org
> +1-714-875-8870
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brad%40shub-internet.org
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From hansen at rc.org  Mon Dec 17 11:52:35 2007
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 02:52:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no dupes across lists?
In-Reply-To: <871w9lfx4u.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC176020071214164945079679f4c789@msapiro>
	<p06240808c38ab8d96bfe@[10.0.1.2]>
	<87prx6bl1l.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240804c38be0d8f350@[10.0.1.2]>
	<871w9lfx4u.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240807c38c00b16a2c@[10.0.1.2]>

This certainly explains the behaviour, Stephen and Brad. I had looked
through all the
options in Eudora and didn't find a way to turn off this pruning feature,
so I assumed it
to be non-existent.

As for RFC 2822, this is what it says about Message-ID. Given the
highlighted section,
I think that what you have done with Mailman (not touching the Message-ID)
is the
right thing to do. Besides, keeping Brad sane is certainly a worthy goal. :-)

Thank you all for a great program.

Allan


   The "Message-ID:" field provides a unique message identifier that
   refers to a particular version of a particular message.  The
   uniqueness of the message identifier is guaranteed by the host that
   generates it (see below).  This message identifier is intended to be
   machine readable and not necessarily meaningful to humans.  A message
   identifier pertains to exactly one instantiation of a particular
   message; subsequent revisions to the message each receive new message
   identifiers.

   Note: There are many instances when messages are "changed", but those
   changes do not constitute a new instantiation of that message, and
   therefore the message would not get a new message identifier.  For
   example, when messages are introduced into the transport system, they
   are often prepended with additional header fields such as trace
   fields (described in section 3.6.7) and resent fields (described in
   section 3.6.6).  The addition of such header fields does not change
   the identity of the message and therefore the original "Message-ID:"
   field is retained.  In all cases, it is the meaning that the sender
   of the message wishes to convey (i.e., whether this is the same
   message or a different message) that determines whether or not the
   "Message-ID:" field changes, not any particular syntactic difference
   that appears (or does not appear) in the message.


At 19:12 +0900 12/17/07, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>Allan Hansen writes:
>
> > One message from a subscriber's MUA goes to two lists in Mailman
> > because that person is addressing it using
> >
> > To: list1 at abc.com, list2 at abc.com
>
>[subscriptions of poster and recipient to list1 and list2 verified]
>
> > Mailman is the actual recipient of this message. However, being a
> > listserver, Mailman becomes the originator (literally) of two new
> > messages,
>
>This may be true "literally", but it is definitely not true from the
>point of view of Mailman or RFC 2822.  In fact Mailman will preserve
>the Message-ID header, and thus the identity of the two messages.
>This behavior conforms to RFC 2822.
>
> > one for the subscribers of list1 and another for the
> > subscribers of list2. It has to be two messages, because one message
> > has additional headers and a footer added for list1 and the other has
> > headers and a footer added for list2. In fact, Mailman even adds the
> > Sender: header with the list as the sender.
>
>RFC 2822 headers are not part of the message in the sense relevant to
>duplicate pruning.  Messing with those headers (except Message-ID, of
>course) should never change the identity of the message in the sense
>of RFC 2822 (AFAIK, I haven't read it with that exact point in mind,
>though).
>
> > I'm subscribed to both list1 and list2, so I'll expect to see two
> > different messages being picked up by my MUA. One message with Sender:
> > list1 at abc.com and another with Sender: list2 at abc.com.
>
>I don't suppose list1 is an umbrella list, with list2 subscribed to
>it?  Or vice versa?  (I don't know for sure that this could lead to
>the described effect, but I also don't see offhand how to prove it
>couldn't.)
>
> > In Mailman I'm seeing only the message corresponding to list2.
> >
> > My MTA is Postfix and my MUA is Eudora (both running under Mac OS X
> > 10.4.11).
>
>Eudora is a full-featured MUA; I would imagine it can suppress dupes.
>
> > I cannot imagine my MUA comparing the two messages and throwing one
> > out, as the message bodies are, in fact, different. Ditto for the MDA
> > and MTA.
>
>I can't imagine it, either.  But no duplicate-pruning agent I've seen
>attempts to compare bodies.  Instead, they use the Message-ID header,
>and assume that two messages with the same Message-ID are the same
>message in the relevant sense.  Mailman does not touch this header,
>because it interprets the addition of body headers and footers, and
>even removal of unwanted content, to *not* change the identity of the
>message.  (IIRC Mailman does add a Resent-Message-ID, however.)  So
>duplicate-pruning agents will suppress one of the messages.
>
>Mailman's internal no-dupes and not-me-too features work differently:
>if an explicit recipient address (resp, the from address for
>not-me-too) in the message's headers (a) is an exact match for a
>subscriber address and (b) its subscription has the no-dupes (resp,
>not-me-too) flag set, Mailman does not queue a delivery to that
>subscriber address.  This also does not involve an attempt to compare
>message bodies.

-- 
Allan Hansen
P.O Box 2423
Cypress, CA 90630
U.S.A.
hansen at rc.org
+1-714-875-8870

From adamski at graceland.edu  Mon Dec 17 15:36:22 2007
From: adamski at graceland.edu (John Adamski)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 08:36:22 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one list not sending emails
Message-ID: <6D7A71EBCD2F3F49BB90628D2969F54231290DB6@owlery.graceland.edu>

Mailman 2.1.4, suse linux 2.6.5-7.145-smp

Recently we had one of our lists stop sending emails.  We have about 30 lists and all others seem to be working find.  The list in question will send a pending message to the moderator that a message is pending, and when they release it, poof it disappears.  I have even taken off the moderator flag and it still disappears.

The archive doesn't show anything, cron and all the other processes are running as other lists are sending out emails.  there is no locks for this list and everything else in the FAQ on "no mail", checks out ok.

Any other suggestions?

John

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec 17 16:40:03 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 07:40:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught bounce notification: Why this message ,
	I haven't sent Any mails
In-Reply-To: <5e4d7fb90712162328t58b28518l966863ad61f4ff46@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712170740030125ff51d420@msapiro>

kk CHN wrote:
>
>I have  few mailing lists running  on Mailman(I am the list administrator
>for these lists ) :  for the last few days I am getting a message regularly
>with subject line   like this : Uncaught bounce notification
>
>
>I havn't sent any mails to the address ("siif at boa-graphics.com")
>still   I am receiving the "  Uncaught bounce notification "   email to my
>list administration id && got annoyed How can I control this Or whats
>happening here with my  mail system ?


Spammers or confused list members are sending mail to
siif-bounces at boa-graphics.com or siif-admin at boa-graphics.com. These
are addresses used by Mailman's automated bounce processing. When an
ordinary message arrives at one of these addresses, Mailman can't
parse it as a Delivery Status Notification and forwards it to the list
owner.

You can't stop spammers from mailing to the address, but you can stop
the notices by turning off bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner on
the admin Bounce processing page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Mon Dec 17 17:20:16 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:20:16 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught bounce notification: Why this message ,
	I haven't sent Any mails
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net>'
	dated: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 07:40:03 -0800
Message-ID: <200712171620.lBHGKGAS001531@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

kk CHN wrote:
>>
>>I have  few mailing lists running  on Mailman(I am the list administrator
>>for these lists ) :  for the last few days I am getting a message regularly
>>with subject line   like this : Uncaught bounce notification
>>
>>
>>I havn't sent any mails to the address ("siif at boa-graphics.com")
>>still   I am receiving the "  Uncaught bounce notification "   email to my
>>list administration id && got annoyed How can I control this Or whats
>>happening here with my  mail system ?

and Mark Sapiro replied:

>Spammers or confused list members are sending mail to
>siif-bounces at boa-graphics.com or siif-admin at boa-graphics.com. These
>are addresses used by Mailman's automated bounce processing. When an
>ordinary message arrives at one of these addresses, Mailman can't
>parse it as a Delivery Status Notification and forwards it to the list
>owner.
>
>You can't stop spammers from mailing to the address, but you can stop
>the notices by turning off bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner on
>the admin Bounce processing page.

We have a problem here where mail from a Mailman list is sent to
a BlackBerry device.  When the recipient does a "reply-all", one of
the reply recipients is the list -bounce address.  This appears to be a
bug in the BlackBerry MUA code, but we have not verified it with
BlackBerry, as we get our BlackBerry support from Nextel.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec 17 17:21:11 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 08:21:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one list not sending emails
In-Reply-To: <6D7A71EBCD2F3F49BB90628D2969F54231290DB6@owlery.graceland.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712170821110000838e9e0b@msapiro>

John Adamski wrote:

>Mailman 2.1.4, suse linux 2.6.5-7.145-smp
>
>Recently we had one of our lists stop sending emails.  We have about 30 lists and all others seem to be working find.  The list in question will send a pending message to the moderator that a message is pending, and when they release it, poof it disappears.  I have even taken off the moderator flag and it still disappears.
>
>The archive doesn't show anything, cron and all the other processes are running as other lists are sending out emails.  there is no locks for this list and everything else in the FAQ on "no mail", checks out ok.

Including Mailman's 'error' log (FAQ 4.78, item 7)?

Since this is Mailman 2.1.4, I suspect this is the "bad message in the
list's digest.mbox" problem. I just added a note about this to FAQ
4.76 which see.
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.076.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Dec 17 18:47:44 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:47:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Aliases for list...
In-Reply-To: <1197874774.27252.5.camel@sys09.in.vpac.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712170947440046c3045a7a@msapiro>

Lev Lafayette wrote:
>
>Is there a special mailman mechanism to alias lists e.g., I want posts
>to listB at domain to end up at listA at domain.
>
>(A workaround for renaming lists that is trivial, rather than
>nontrivial)


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.070.htp>.

If you don't want to actually rename listA to listB, but just, as you
say, have mail to listB wind up at listA, this is mostly an MTA
question, not a Mailman question, but assuming your MTA uses aliases
of the form

lista at example.com:        "|/path/to/mail/mailman post lista"
lista-admin at example.com:  "|/path/to/mail/mailman admin lista"
etc.

just make a second set like

listb at example.com:        "|/path/to/mail/mailman post lista"
listb-admin at example.com:  "|/path/to/mail/mailman admin lista"
etc.

and add listb at example.com to lista's Privacy options...->Recipient
filters->acceptable_aliases.

Depending on your MTA and its configuration, there are probably other
ways to do this, but what you have to do is make mail to a listb...
address be finally delivered in exactly the same way as mail to the
corresponding lista.. address.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Dec 17 20:13:04 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:13:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught bounce notification: Why this message ,
 I haven't sent Any mails
In-Reply-To: <5e4d7fb90712162328t58b28518l966863ad61f4ff46@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5e4d7fb90712162328t58b28518l966863ad61f4ff46@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c38c7a7d5ff9@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/17/07, kk CHN wrote:

>  I have  few mailing lists running  on Mailman(I am the list administrator
>  for these lists ) :  for the last few days I am getting a message regularly
>  with subject line   like this : Uncaught bounce notification

In this case, someone sent out spam, claiming to be your mailing 
list.  The bounce comes back to Mailman, but since you didn't 
actually send the message in question, Mailman doesn't know what to 
do with it.  Therefore, Mailman sends to message to you, as list 
owner.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Dec 17 20:11:47 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:11:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Aliases for list...
In-Reply-To: <1197874774.27252.5.camel@sys09.in.vpac.org>
References: <1197874774.27252.5.camel@sys09.in.vpac.org>
Message-ID: <p06240800c38c7a44527f@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/17/07, Lev Lafayette wrote:

>  Is there a special mailman mechanism to alias lists e.g., I want posts
>  to listB at domain to end up at listA at domain.

So far as I know, there is no Mailman mechanism for this sort of 
thing.  Generally speaking, all aliases issues are handled by the MTA 
(e.g., sendmail, postfix, Exim, etc...) before the messages get to 
Mailman.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From jeff.donsbach at gmail.com  Mon Dec 17 23:49:43 2007
From: jeff.donsbach at gmail.com (Jeff Donsbach)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:49:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught bounce notification: Why this message ,
	I haven't sent Any mails
In-Reply-To: <200712171620.lBHGKGAS001531@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
References: <mark@msapiro.net>
	<200712171620.lBHGKGAS001531@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <22976ef80712171449nadaa35fw816a344f249b7544@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 17, 2007 11:20 AM, Barry Finkel <b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov> wrote:

>
> We have a problem here where mail from a Mailman list is sent to
> a BlackBerry device.  When the recipient does a "reply-all", one of
> the reply recipients is the list -bounce address.  This appears to be a
> bug in the BlackBerry MUA code, but we have not verified it with
> BlackBerry, as we get our BlackBerry support from Nextel.

I have seen this phenomena from my Blackberry users as well.  But I
have no connection with Blackberry, as this are not commercial lists
and I don't own one.

From knabe at 4j.lane.edu  Tue Dec 18 00:03:02 2007
From: knabe at 4j.lane.edu (Troy Knabe)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:03:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail/mailman
Message-ID: <7A8EDA8D-4E36-47B3-B355-0372D045E0C4@4j.lane.edu>

Whenever I send to a mail list that I have created it gets "stuck" in / 
var/spool/mqueue.  Once I restart sendmail it instantly processes all  
of the list messages and they go out.  Any ideas where I might have  
configured this wrong?

Thanks
-Troy

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec 18 02:22:13 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:22:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail/mailman
In-Reply-To: <7A8EDA8D-4E36-47B3-B355-0372D045E0C4@4j.lane.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712171722130062838e9e4b@msapiro>

Troy Knabe wrote:

>Whenever I send to a mail list that I have created it gets "stuck" in / 
>var/spool/mqueue.  Once I restart sendmail it instantly processes all  
>of the list messages and they go out.  Any ideas where I might have  
>configured this wrong?


This appears to be a sendmail issue, but check Mailman's smtp and
smtp-failure logs just in case. Assuming you find only the normal
"<msg-id> smtp to <listname> for nnn recipients, completed in t.ttt
seconds" messages in smtp and nothing in smtp-failure, then Mailman
has completed its SMTP transaction(s) to sendmail, and as you say, the
messages are queued by sendmail. I don't know why it takes a restart
for sendmail to process the queue. I could be wrong, but I don't think
it's Mailman.

The only Mailman configuration that affects SMTP at this level is
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS which may need to be reduced from it's default of 500
if sendmail is limited to fewer recipients per transaction.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From knabe at 4j.lane.edu  Tue Dec 18 03:26:06 2007
From: knabe at 4j.lane.edu (Troy Knabe)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:26:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail/mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712171722130062838e9e4b@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200712171722130062838e9e4b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <21250ECD-1E07-45A3-8F52-928645CD5E60@4j.lane.edu>

I found that my sendmail deamon was only redoing the queue every hour.  
Now that I changed that to 5 minutes. Nothing is staying longer than  
that. But why is mailman delivering to the queue?

-Troy

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 17, 2007, at 5:22 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Troy Knabe wrote:
>
>> Whenever I send to a mail list that I have created it gets "stuck"  
>> in /
>> var/spool/mqueue.  Once I restart sendmail it instantly processes all
>> of the list messages and they go out.  Any ideas where I might have
>> configured this wrong?
>
>
> This appears to be a sendmail issue, but check Mailman's smtp and
> smtp-failure logs just in case. Assuming you find only the normal
> "<msg-id> smtp to <listname> for nnn recipients, completed in t.ttt
> seconds" messages in smtp and nothing in smtp-failure, then Mailman
> has completed its SMTP transaction(s) to sendmail, and as you say, the
> messages are queued by sendmail. I don't know why it takes a restart
> for sendmail to process the queue. I could be wrong, but I don't think
> it's Mailman.
>
> The only Mailman configuration that affects SMTP at this level is
> SMTP_MAX_RCPTS which may need to be reduced from it's default of 500
> if sendmail is limited to fewer recipients per transaction.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Dec 18 03:41:30 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:41:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail/mailman
In-Reply-To: <21250ECD-1E07-45A3-8F52-928645CD5E60@4j.lane.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712171841300984838ea1f6@msapiro>

Troy Knabe wrote:

>I found that my sendmail deamon was only redoing the queue every hour.  
>Now that I changed that to 5 minutes. Nothing is staying longer than  
>that. But why is mailman delivering to the queue?


Assuming Mailman is 'standard', it is delivering to sendmail via SMTP
and it is sendmail that is queueing the message.

This is some sendmail configuration issue. Are you running MailScanner
or some other addons that might be scanning and requeuing messages.
Have you looked in your sendmail maillog for clues? If you are running
MailScanner or something similar, you might want to consider exempting
mail from localhost or at least from Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From knabe at 4j.lane.edu  Tue Dec 18 03:53:33 2007
From: knabe at 4j.lane.edu (Troy Knabe)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:53:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail/mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712171841300984838ea1f6@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200712171841300984838ea1f6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BAEAEBBC-B79F-4500-8E6F-9B2998FD1456@4j.lane.edu>

Yep I am using a milter for virus/spam. I'll brt that is causing the  
message to queue.

Thanks for the help.
-Troy

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 17, 2007, at 6:41 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Troy Knabe wrote:
>
>> I found that my sendmail deamon was only redoing the queue every  
>> hour.
>> Now that I changed that to 5 minutes. Nothing is staying longer than
>> that. But why is mailman delivering to the queue?
>
>
> Assuming Mailman is 'standard', it is delivering to sendmail via SMTP
> and it is sendmail that is queueing the message.
>
> This is some sendmail configuration issue. Are you running MailScanner
> or some other addons that might be scanning and requeuing messages.
> Have you looked in your sendmail maillog for clues? If you are running
> MailScanner or something similar, you might want to consider exempting
> mail from localhost or at least from Mailman.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

From SmithMm at tblc.org  Mon Dec 17 18:18:21 2007
From: SmithMm at tblc.org (Matt Smith)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 12:18:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help a newbie out! How to list users of a specific
	list
Message-ID: <69FDF3BECCCBAB41ABBCD23E2358529404F54544@EXCHANGE.tblc.local>

Hello,

 

We host several lists here and I would like to know how to list
users/subscribers list by list.  Is there an easy way of doing that?

 

Thank you,

 

 

Matthew Smith

Tampa Bay Library Consortium

813-622-8252 X229

smithmm at tblc.org

 


From knabe at 4j.lane.edu  Tue Dec 18 16:12:15 2007
From: knabe at 4j.lane.edu (Troy Knabe)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 07:12:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help a newbie out! How to list users of a
	specific	list
In-Reply-To: <69FDF3BECCCBAB41ABBCD23E2358529404F54544@EXCHANGE.tblc.local>
References: <69FDF3BECCCBAB41ABBCD23E2358529404F54544@EXCHANGE.tblc.local>
Message-ID: <355F0E71-0F20-46F6-B4B4-B104F0724798@4j.lane.edu>

$prefix/mailman/bin/list_members $listname

-Troy

On Dec 17, 2007, at 9:18 AM, Matt Smith wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
>
> We host several lists here and I would like to know how to list
> users/subscribers list by list.  Is there an easy way of doing that?
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
>
>
> Matthew Smith
>
> Tampa Bay Library Consortium
>
> 813-622-8252 X229
>
> smithmm at tblc.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/knabe%404j.lane.edu
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From lev at vpac.org  Tue Dec 18 23:44:39 2007
From: lev at vpac.org (Lev Lafayette)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:44:39 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help a newbie out! How to list users of
	a	specific	list
In-Reply-To: <355F0E71-0F20-46F6-B4B4-B104F0724798@4j.lane.edu>
References: <69FDF3BECCCBAB41ABBCD23E2358529404F54544@EXCHANGE.tblc.local>
	<355F0E71-0F20-46F6-B4B4-B104F0724798@4j.lane.edu>
Message-ID: <1198017879.633.1.camel@sys09.in.vpac.org>


You know... I've been thinking that this would be a really handy on the
web admin interface as well as the command line.

(Apologies if it does already exist as an option I simply haven't
noticed it)

Regards,


Lev

On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 07:12 -0800, Troy Knabe wrote:
> $prefix/mailman/bin/list_members $listname
> 
> -Troy
> 
> On Dec 17, 2007, at 9:18 AM, Matt Smith wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> >
> >
> > We host several lists here and I would like to know how to list
> > users/subscribers list by list.  Is there an easy way of doing that?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Matthew Smith
> >
> > Tampa Bay Library Consortium
> >
> > 813-622-8252 X229
> >
> > smithmm at tblc.org
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/knabe%404j.lane.edu
> >
> > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lev%40vpac.org
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Dec 19 00:03:27 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:03:27 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help a newbie out! How to list users of a
 specific	list
In-Reply-To: <1198017879.633.1.camel@sys09.in.vpac.org>
References: <69FDF3BECCCBAB41ABBCD23E2358529404F54544@EXCHANGE.tblc.local>
	<355F0E71-0F20-46F6-B4B4-B104F0724798@4j.lane.edu>
	<1198017879.633.1.camel@sys09.in.vpac.org>
Message-ID: <p06240804c38e0163feaf@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/19/07, Lev Lafayette wrote:

>  You know... I've been thinking that this would be a really handy on the
>  web admin interface as well as the command line.

On the web interface, the closest we get is the "Membership 
Management" section.  If you have more users on the list than a 
certain built-in site-wide default, then this will be broken down by 
the first letter of their e-mail address.

>  (Apologies if it does already exist as an option I simply haven't
>  noticed it)

For lists with hundreds of thousands of subscribers (and yes, there 
are some Mailman lists that large), putting all this on a single web 
page wouldn't be very feasible.  For smaller lists, I can see the 
value.

If you check the Mailman RFE (Request for Feature Enhancement) page 
at <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103>, I 
imagine that you should see a request from someone else for precisely 
this option.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Dec 19 00:08:07 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:08:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help a newbie out! How to list users
	ofa	specific	list
In-Reply-To: <1198017879.633.1.camel@sys09.in.vpac.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712181508070203e61de152@msapiro>

Lev Lafayette wrote:
>
>You know... I've been thinking that this would be a really handy on the
>web admin interface as well as the command line.


Not per se, but see <http://www.example.com/mailman/roster/listname>
(also linked from the list's listinfo page).

>(Apologies if it does already exist as an option I simply haven't
>noticed it)


>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

 3.62


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lev at vpac.org  Wed Dec 19 00:22:46 2007
From: lev at vpac.org (Lev Lafayette)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:22:46 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help a newbie out! How to list users of
	a	specific	list
In-Reply-To: <p06240804c38e0163feaf@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <69FDF3BECCCBAB41ABBCD23E2358529404F54544@EXCHANGE.tblc.local>
	<355F0E71-0F20-46F6-B4B4-B104F0724798@4j.lane.edu>
	<1198017879.633.1.camel@sys09.in.vpac.org>
	<p06240804c38e0163feaf@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <1198020166.633.8.camel@sys09.in.vpac.org>

On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 17:03 -0600, Brad Knowles wrote:
> On 12/19/07, Lev Lafayette wrote:
> 
> >  You know... I've been thinking that this would be a really handy on the
> >  web admin interface as well as the command line.
> 
> On the web interface, the closest we get is the "Membership 
> Management" section.  If you have more users on the list than a 
> certain built-in site-wide default, then this will be broken down by 
> the first letter of their e-mail address.

*nods* Which requires a "screen scrape" to get a copy of membership of
the mailing list in text form.

> 
> >  (Apologies if it does already exist as an option I simply haven't
> >  noticed it)
> 
> For lists with hundreds of thousands of subscribers (and yes, there 
> are some Mailman lists that large), putting all this on a single web 
> page wouldn't be very feasible.  For smaller lists, I can see the 
> value.
> 

Yahoo groups for example has this feature for moderators
(members-download). It would be especially handy for mailman managers
who don't have access to the command line (for example, due to
restrictions on their hosting service)

> If you check the Mailman RFE (Request for Feature Enhancement) page 
> at <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103>, I 
> imagine that you should see a request from someone else for precisely 
> this option.

Thanks for that.

All the best,


Lev


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Dec 19 00:33:08 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:33:08 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help a newbie out! How to list users of a
 specific	list
In-Reply-To: <1198020166.633.8.camel@sys09.in.vpac.org>
References: <69FDF3BECCCBAB41ABBCD23E2358529404F54544@EXCHANGE.tblc.local>
	<355F0E71-0F20-46F6-B4B4-B104F0724798@4j.lane.edu>
	<1198017879.633.1.camel@sys09.in.vpac.org>
	<p06240804c38e0163feaf@[192.168.1.101]>
	<1198020166.633.8.camel@sys09.in.vpac.org>
Message-ID: <p06240806c38e07d98224@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/19/07, Lev Lafayette wrote:

>  *nods* Which requires a "screen scrape" to get a copy of membership of
>  the mailing list in text form.

You can also get a copy of the list sent to you by using the e-mail 
interface.  See FAQ 3.62 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>.

>  Yahoo groups for example has this feature for moderators
>  (members-download). It would be especially handy for mailman managers
>  who don't have access to the command line (for example, due to
>  restrictions on their hosting service)

Mailman was not designed as a drop-in replacement for Yahoo!Groups. 
See FAQ 1.26 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.026.htp>.

It also was not designed to be used in a hosting environment.  See 
FAQ 1.32 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.032.htp>.


That said, we recognize that users want such features regardless, 
hence the Mailman RFE page at SourceForge.  And we'll do our best to 
implement the features we consider to be most important, as our time 
and other resources allow.

Of course, this is a purely volunteer-supported open source project, 
so if there's some feature you have a burning desire to have 
implemented then the easiest way to get that into the standard code 
base is for you to get (or pay) someone else to do that for you, and 
then contribute that code back to our project.  Then we can look at 
that code and determine whether or not it can be incorporated into an 
upcoming version.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From knabe at 4j.lane.edu  Wed Dec 19 01:57:06 2007
From: knabe at 4j.lane.edu (Troy Knabe)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:57:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] multiple hosts mounting mailman nfs
Message-ID: <5B2F2AB3-FC87-422D-86FF-0950B172FFA6@4j.lane.edu>

I have two smtp servers that we use dns round robin for load  
balancing.  I can run it one server at a time, but I am running into  
some pid lock file issues when I try to run them simultaneously.

Any suggestions?

Thanks
-Troy


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Dec 19 04:56:02 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:56:02 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] multiple hosts mounting mailman nfs
In-Reply-To: <5B2F2AB3-FC87-422D-86FF-0950B172FFA6@4j.lane.edu>
References: <5B2F2AB3-FC87-422D-86FF-0950B172FFA6@4j.lane.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240800c38e443ba94e@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/18/07, Troy Knabe wrote:

>  I have two smtp servers that we use dns round robin for load
>  balancing.  I can run it one server at a time, but I am running into
>  some pid lock file issues when I try to run them simultaneously.

Mailman is written in such a way that it should be as resistant as 
possible to problems that would be caused by mounting 
/usr/local/mailman on NFS, but there's only going to be so much that 
you can do.  It will definitely use lock files to try to keep things 
straight.

The other alternative is to keep the /usr/local/mailman/qfiles and 
certain other  directories mounted locally-only on each of the 
machines, and then to have the /usr/local/mailman/archives and 
certain other directories mounted shared via NFS.  This way, 
individual incoming messages will be processed locally on a given 
server, although the archives and other stuff will be shared from a 
single central location.  This should minimize most lock contention.


For your mail servers, you want to make sure that you don't try to 
share via NFS the /var/spool/mqueue type of directories, because most 
MTAs (e.g., sendmail, postfix, Exim, etc...) do not do well at all if 
those transactional directories are shared across multiple machines. 
You can share user mailboxes on /var/spool/mail via NFS, and there 
are certain Mailbox formats that make that sort of thing easier and 
more robust.  But that's not the transactional queue files for the 
MTA.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From hansen at rc.org  Wed Dec 19 06:23:10 2007
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:23:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help a newbie out! How to list users of a
 specific list
Message-ID: <p0624081cc38e57ce195e@[10.0.1.2]>

I have a web page (password protected) with a form that accepts requests to have the membership lists sent to the requester via email. The forms' CGI Perl script generates files on the server with these requests. A cron job with the proper privileges checks the file content and then uses the Mailman API to generate the list and send the file to the requestor if the requestor email is verified against an internal list of approved addresses for each list. Another form lets certain people (who are not list admins) enter and remove subscriptions. This form works the same way as the above.

Allan
>Hello,
>
> 
>
>We host several lists here and I would like to know how to list
>users/subscribers list by list.  Is there an easy way of doing that?
>
> 
>
>Thank you,
>
> 
>
> 
>
>Matthew Smith
>
>Tampa Bay Library Consortium
>
>813-622-8252 X229
>
>smithmm at tblc.org
>
> 

-- 
Allan Hansen
P.O Box 2423
Cypress, CA 90630
U.S.A.
hansen at rc.org
+1-714-875-8870

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Wed Dec 19 13:39:41 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 07:39:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help a newbie out! How to list users of a
 specific list
In-Reply-To: <p06240804c38e0163feaf@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <69FDF3BECCCBAB41ABBCD23E2358529404F54544@EXCHANGE.tblc.local>	<355F0E71-0F20-46F6-B4B4-B104F0724798@4j.lane.edu>	<1198017879.633.1.camel@sys09.in.vpac.org>
	<p06240804c38e0163feaf@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <4769110D.90002@Media-Brokers.com>

On 12/18/2007, Brad Knowles (brad at shub-internet.org) wrote:
> On the web interface, the closest we get is the "Membership 
> Management" section.  If you have more users on the list than a 
> certain built-in site-wide default, then this will be broken down by 
> the first letter of their e-mail address.

Where is this default set? I had a list that mysteriously switched to 
the view by letter mode, then a few days later, went back to listing 
them all on a single page... from the above comment, I'm guessing that I 
had added a member that put me over this limit, then removed one to put 
me back under.

I'd like to bump it up a tad, so that doesn't happen again. Our lists 
are fairly static, and will not be growing significantly in the future.

Thanks!

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From dblack at ualberta.ca  Wed Dec 19 16:30:40 2007
From: dblack at ualberta.ca (Dennis Black)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:30:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] multiple hosts mounting mailman nfs
In-Reply-To: <5B2F2AB3-FC87-422D-86FF-0950B172FFA6@4j.lane.edu>
References: <5B2F2AB3-FC87-422D-86FF-0950B172FFA6@4j.lane.edu>
Message-ID: <47693920.50103@ualberta.ca>

Troy Knabe wrote:
> I have two smtp servers that we use dns round robin for load  
> balancing.  I can run it one server at a time, but I am running into  
> some pid lock file issues when I try to run them simultaneously.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks
> -Troy
>
>   
Troy,
My configuration:

A carp machine answers "mailman.srv.ualberta.ca" and alternates inbound 
messages
to two machines behind the carp machine, "mailman1" and "mailman2",
NFS-mounted to a third machine, "mailmandb".

Mailman 2.1.9 and Postfix are installed on all three.

Beginning at about line 119, change /usr/local/bin/mailmanctl, so it reads:

# Locking contantsa
fname = socket.gethostname()
partz = fname.split('.')
hostnamez = partz.pop(0)
lyst = ['master-qrunner', hostnamez]
osmyname = "-".join(lyst)
LOCKFILE = os.path.join(mm_cfg.LOCK_DIR, osmyname)
# Since we wake up once per day and refresh the lock, the LOCK_LIFETIME

Mount /usr/local/mailman/locks on NFS.

This creates lockfiles named by hosts:

/usr/local/mailman/locks

-rw-rw-r--  2 mailman  mailman  79 Dec 19 17:29 master-qrunner-mailman1
-rw-rw-r--  2 mailman  mailman  79 Dec 19 17:29 
master-qrunner-mailman1.mailman1.srv.ualberta.ca.13791
-rw-rw-r--  2 mailman  mailman  78 Dec 19 15:45 master-qrunner-mailman2
-rw-rw-r--  2 mailman  mailman  78 Dec 19 15:45 
master-qrunner-mailman2.mailman2.srv.ualberta.ca.5476
-rw-rw-r--  2 mailman  mailman  80 Dec 20 13:35 master-qrunner-mailmandb
-rw-rw-r--  2 mailman  mailman  80 Dec 20 13:35 
master-qrunner-mailmandb.mailmandb.srv.ualberta.ca.7897

As Brad points out, each of the two machines has its own queue, but the 
/lists and /archives
are common NFS.

-- 
Dennis Black
System Admin
Academic Information and Communication Technologies (AICT)
(780-)492-9329
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to which
it is addressed, and may contain confidential, personal, and/or
privileged information. Please contact us immediately if you are not
the intended recipient of this communication. If you are not the
intended recipient of this communication, do not copy, distribute,
or take action on it. Any communication received in error, or
subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.


From knabe at 4j.lane.edu  Wed Dec 19 17:33:00 2007
From: knabe at 4j.lane.edu (Troy Knabe)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:33:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] multiple hosts mounting mailman nfs
In-Reply-To: <47693920.50103@ualberta.ca>
References: <5B2F2AB3-FC87-422D-86FF-0950B172FFA6@4j.lane.edu>
	<47693920.50103@ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <81907F46-0E3B-41E9-A0DB-B0A966326E5C@4j.lane.edu>


On Dec 19, 2007, at 7:30 AM, Dennis Black wrote:

> Troy Knabe wrote:
>> I have two smtp servers that we use dns round robin for load
>> balancing.  I can run it one server at a time, but I am running into
>> some pid lock file issues when I try to run them simultaneously.
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Troy
>>
>>
> Troy,
> My configuration:
>
> A carp machine answers "mailman.srv.ualberta.ca" and alternates  
> inbound
> messages
> to two machines behind the carp machine, "mailman1" and "mailman2",
> NFS-mounted to a third machine, "mailmandb".
>
> Mailman 2.1.9 and Postfix are installed on all three.
>
> Beginning at about line 119, change /usr/local/bin/mailmanctl, so it  
> reads:
>
> # Locking contantsa
> fname = socket.gethostname()
> partz = fname.split('.')
> hostnamez = partz.pop(0)
> lyst = ['master-qrunner', hostnamez]
> osmyname = "-".join(lyst)
> LOCKFILE = os.path.join(mm_cfg.LOCK_DIR, osmyname)
> # Since we wake up once per day and refresh the lock, the  
> LOCK_LIFETIME
>
> Mount /usr/local/mailman/locks on NFS.
>
> This creates lockfiles named by hosts:
>
> /usr/local/mailman/locks
>
> -rw-rw-r--  2 mailman  mailman  79 Dec 19 17:29 master-qrunner- 
> mailman1
> -rw-rw-r--  2 mailman  mailman  79 Dec 19 17:29
> master-qrunner-mailman1.mailman1.srv.ualberta.ca.13791
> -rw-rw-r--  2 mailman  mailman  78 Dec 19 15:45 master-qrunner- 
> mailman2
> -rw-rw-r--  2 mailman  mailman  78 Dec 19 15:45
> master-qrunner-mailman2.mailman2.srv.ualberta.ca.5476
> -rw-rw-r--  2 mailman  mailman  80 Dec 20 13:35 master-qrunner- 
> mailmandb
> -rw-rw-r--  2 mailman  mailman  80 Dec 20 13:35
> master-qrunner-mailmandb.mailmandb.srv.ualberta.ca.7897
>
> As Brad points out, each of the two machines has its own queue, but  
> the
> /lists and /archives
> are common NFS.
>
> -- 
> Dennis Black
> System Admin
> Academic Information and Communication Technologies (AICT)
> (780-)492-9329
> This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to which
> it is addressed, and may contain confidential, personal, and/or
> privileged information. Please contact us immediately if you are not
> the intended recipient of this communication. If you are not the
> intended recipient of this communication, do not copy, distribute,
> or take action on it. Any communication received in error, or
> subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/knabe%404j.lane.edu
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

Thanks to Dennis and Brad.  It appears that I now have this working  
perfectly, your instructions for mailmanctl were very easy to follow,  
even for a non-programmer.  I already had created /usr/local/mailman  
so I took qfiles and sym linked it back to local disks (with the same  
path on both hosts).  Messages seem to flowing correctly now.

Thanks again!

-Troy




From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Wed Dec 19 18:13:54 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:13:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help a newbie out! How to list users of a
 specific list
In-Reply-To: <4769110D.90002@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <69FDF3BECCCBAB41ABBCD23E2358529404F54544@EXCHANGE.tblc.local>	<355F0E71-0F20-46F6-B4B4-B104F0724798@4j.lane.edu>	<1198017879.633.1.camel@sys09.in.vpac.org>	<p06240804c38e0163feaf@[192.168.1.101]>
	<4769110D.90002@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <47695152.9020604@Media-Brokers.com>

Charles Marcus, on 12/19/2007 7:39 AM, said the following:
> On 12/18/2007, Brad Knowles (brad at shub-internet.org) wrote:
>> On the web interface, the closest we get is the "Membership 
>> Management" section.  If you have more users on the list than a 
>> certain built-in site-wide default, then this will be broken down by 
>> the first letter of their e-mail address.

> Where is this default set? I had a list that mysteriously switched to 
> the view by letter mode, then a few days later, went back to listing 
> them all on a single page... from the above comment, I'm guessing that I 
> had added a member that put me over this limit, then removed one to put 
> me back under.
> 
> I'd like to bump it up a tad, so that doesn't happen again. Our lists 
> are fairly static, and will not be growing significantly in the future.

Answering myself, found it digging through Defaults.py...

DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE = 30 is the default, which I just 
counted, and I currently have 30, so that was it...

Bumped it up to 50 in mm_cfg.py and restarted mailman...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Dec 19 18:24:32 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:24:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help a newbie out! How to list users of a
 specific list
In-Reply-To: <4769110D.90002@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <69FDF3BECCCBAB41ABBCD23E2358529404F54544@EXCHANGE.tblc.local>
	<355F0E71-0F20-46F6-B4B4-B104F0724798@4j.lane.edu>
	<1198017879.633.1.camel@sys09.in.vpac.org>
	<p06240804c38e0163feaf@[192.168.1.101]>
	<4769110D.90002@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c38f03356c7e@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/19/07, Charles Marcus wrote:

>  Where is this default set?

 From /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py:

# How many members to display at a time on the admin cgi to unsubscribe them
# or change their options?
DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE = 30

Note that I believe this is only consulted when creating the list. 
If you go into your mm_cfg.py file and set something else, that will 
affect all new lists created after that point, but I don't think it 
affects any current lists (which were created with the old setting).

If you search the FAQ Wizard for the string 
"DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE", you find that there is only one 
entry returned -- FAQ 4.30 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.030.htp>, 
which covers how to change this value for a list that has already 
been created.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Dec 19 19:02:06 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:02:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help a newbie out! How to list users of a
 specific list
In-Reply-To: <47695152.9020604@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <69FDF3BECCCBAB41ABBCD23E2358529404F54544@EXCHANGE.tblc.local>
	<355F0E71-0F20-46F6-B4B4-B104F0724798@4j.lane.edu>
	<1198017879.633.1.camel@sys09.in.vpac.org>
	<p06240804c38e0163feaf@[192.168.1.101]>
	<4769110D.90002@Media-Brokers.com>
	<47695152.9020604@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <200712191749.lBJHmn8b008128@unreal.eroded.org>

Charles Marcus sent the message below at 09:13 12/19/2007:
>Charles Marcus, on 12/19/2007 7:39 AM, said the following:
> > On 12/18/2007, Brad Knowles (brad at shub-internet.org) wrote:
> >> On the web interface, the closest we get is the "Membership
> >> Management" section.  If you have more users on the list than a
> >> certain built-in site-wide default, then this will be broken down by
> >> the first letter of their e-mail address.
>
> > Where is this default set? I had a list that mysteriously switched to
> > the view by letter mode, then a few days later, went back to listing
> > them all on a single page... from the above comment, I'm guessing that I
> > had added a member that put me over this limit, then removed one to put
> > me back under.
> >
> > I'd like to bump it up a tad, so that doesn't happen again. Our lists
> > are fairly static, and will not be growing significantly in the future.
>
>Answering myself, found it digging through Defaults.py...
>
>DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE = 30 is the default, which I just
>counted, and I currently have 30, so that was it...
>
>Bumped it up to 50 in mm_cfg.py and restarted mailman...
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Unfortunately, that will only change the setting for new lists, not 
existing ones.

The setting is stored in each list configuration when it is created 
and you would have to modify it for each list. You can see this by 
using the dumpdb script to examine the config.pck file for a list, 
the parameter is admin_member_chunksize.

You can change this by using the config_list script -o option to 
output the configuration in text format, make the change there and 
then re-import it using the -i option of the same script.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Dec 19 19:36:58 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:36:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help a newbie out! How to list users of
	aspecific list
In-Reply-To: <47695152.9020604@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712191036580031515f8339@msapiro>

Charles Marcus wrote:
>
>Answering myself, found it digging through Defaults.py...
>
>DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE = 30 is the default, which I just 
>counted, and I currently have 30, so that was it...
>
>Bumped it up to 50 in mm_cfg.py and restarted mailman...


Unfortunately, that won't help your existing lists. That only sets the
default for new lists. The setting for an existing list is the
admin_member_chunksize list attribute. Beginning in Mailman 2.1.10,
this setting is available on the list's General Options page. In older
versions, you need to do something like

#!/bin/bash
cd ~mailman
f=mktemp
echo admin_member_chunksize = 50 > $f
bin/config_list -i $f list_name
rm $f

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Wed Dec 19 19:54:16 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:54:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help a newbie out! How to list users of a
 specific list
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712191036580031515f8339@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200712191036580031515f8339@msapiro>
Message-ID: <476968D8.6050406@Media-Brokers.com>

Mark Sapiro, on 12/19/2007 1:36 PM, said the following:
> Charles Marcus wrote:
>> Answering myself, found it digging through Defaults.py...
>>
>> DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE = 30 is the default, which I just 
>> counted, and I currently have 30, so that was it...
>>
>> Bumped it up to 50 in mm_cfg.py and restarted mailman...

> Unfortunately, that won't help your existing lists. That only sets the
> default for new lists. The setting for an existing list is the
> admin_member_chunksize list attribute. Beginning in Mailman 2.1.10,
> this setting is available on the list's General Options page. In older
> versions, you need to do something like
> 
> #!/bin/bash
> cd ~mailman
> f=mktemp
> echo admin_member_chunksize = 50 > $f
> bin/config_list -i $f list_name
> rm $f

Ok, thanks! Makes sense to add this option to the web GUI - sounds like 
lots of good tweaks coming...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Dec 19 20:02:16 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:02:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help a newbie out! How to list users of
	aspecific list
In-Reply-To: <200712191749.lBJHmn8b008128@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602007121911021602504ccb622a@msapiro>

Dragon wrote:
>
>You can change this by using the config_list script -o option to 
>output the configuration in text format, make the change there and 
>then re-import it using the -i option of the same script.


There are two problems with making changes via "config_list -o" "edit
the file" "config_list -i"

The first problem is this is generally extra and unnecessary work.
config_list -i only changes those settings in the input, so it is
sufficient to just make a file with the one or two settings you want
to change and use that as input to config_list.

The more significant issue is "config_list -o" only dumps those list
settings which are in the admin web interface, so in this case, unless
you have upgraded to 2.1.10b1, you won't see admin_member_chunksize in
the config_list output, and if you have upgraded to 2.1.10b1 or later,
you can just set it on the General Options page.

config_list -o is useful for backing up list settings before
experimenting with multiple changes or just to have a backup. It is
also useful for creating a template configuration to be applied to
other lists, but to just change a few settings, the dump/edit/reload
scenario is generally overkill.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From h_rifkind at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 20 07:42:30 2007
From: h_rifkind at yahoo.com (Howard Rifkind)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 22:42:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing
	lists
Message-ID: <626849.48627.qm@web30311.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello all,

I'm trying to set up a listserve and getting the above
message.  I have root user priviledges but still can't
define a list for user on my site.

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec 20 08:31:37 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:31:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error: You are not authorized to create new
	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <626849.48627.qm@web30311.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007121923313709372834e94e@msapiro>

Howard Rifkind wrote:
>
>I'm trying to set up a listserve and getting the above
>message.  I have root user priviledges but still can't
>define a list for user on my site.


Since you quote a web interface error message, I assume you are trying
to create a list via the web create page.

Are you providing the correct Mailman site password or Mailman list
creator password as set by bin/mmsitepass for the "List creator's
(authentication) password:" at the bottom of the form?	

Note that as root or the Mailman user, you can also create a list using
bin/newlist.

Give these commands (newlist, mmsitepass) with the --help option for
more info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in  Thu Dec 20 13:01:54 2007
From: vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in (Vinita Aggarwal)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:31:54 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to changethe common/master password for all
	the lists?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007121923313709372834e94e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <000b01c84300$1ee7ae20$3403010a@undp.org.in>


Hi

I have about 100 lists running on my server. Every list has different
password. But there is one another password which works on all the list with
all rights. Now, I want to change that common/master password for existing
and new lists which I will create .


Please suggest how to do this.

Regards,
Vinita aggarwal
-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+vinita.aggarwal=un.org.in at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+vinita.aggarwal=un.org.in at python.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 1:02 PM
To: Howard Rifkind; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Error: You are not authorized to create
newmailinglists

Howard Rifkind wrote:
>
>I'm trying to set up a listserve and getting the above
>message.  I have root user priviledges but still can't
>define a list for user on my site.


Since you quote a web interface error message, I assume you are trying
to create a list via the web create page.

Are you providing the correct Mailman site password or Mailman list
creator password as set by bin/mmsitepass for the "List creator's
(authentication) password:" at the bottom of the form?	

Note that as root or the Mailman user, you can also create a list using
bin/newlist.

Give these commands (newlist, mmsitepass) with the --help option for
more info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/vinita.aggarwal%40un.or
g.in

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From camelia.botez at weizmann.ac.il  Thu Dec 20 15:08:32 2007
From: camelia.botez at weizmann.ac.il (Camelia Botez)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:08:32 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving mailman lists to a new machine
Message-ID: <1198159712.9083.20.camel@cami-as.weizmann.ac.il>

We are in the process of moving to a new web server.  On the old web
server we are running Mailman 2.0.11.  On the new web server we
installed Mailman 2.1.9.
How can we move all the mailing lists on the old machine to the new
machine including the membership list and the archives.
Thanks for any help.


From jon.slater at mesanetworks.net  Thu Dec 20 15:17:55 2007
From: jon.slater at mesanetworks.net (Jon Slater)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:17:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SPAM to ******-bounces lists
Message-ID: <00d401c84313$1dab8a00$59029e00$@slater@mesanetworks.net>

Hi,

 

I am receiving an excess amount of SPAM to my ?bounces? lists.  For example
?board-bounces? or ?members-bounces?.

 

Since the ?bounces? e-mail only comes to me, I?m the only one that sees it.

 

Is there some setting somewhere that can block these or a way to link these
accounts to SpamAssassin that can stop this?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Jon


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1189 - Release Date: 12/18/2007
9:40 PM
 

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec 20 16:40:18 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:40:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to changethe common/master password for all
	the lists?
In-Reply-To: <000b01c84300$1ee7ae20$3403010a@undp.org.in>
Message-ID: <PC176020071220074018029607fdefba@msapiro>

Vinita Aggarwal wrote:
>
>Now, I want to change that common/master password for existing
>and new lists which I will create .


bin/mmsitepass

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From raquel at thericehouse.net  Thu Dec 20 16:43:04 2007
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:43:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving mailman lists to a new machine
In-Reply-To: <1198159712.9083.20.camel@cami-as.weizmann.ac.il>
References: <1198159712.9083.20.camel@cami-as.weizmann.ac.il>
Message-ID: <20071220074304.b206dac9.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:08:32 +0200
Camelia Botez <camelia.botez at weizmann.ac.il> wrote:

> We are in the process of moving to a new web server.  On the old web
> server we are running Mailman 2.0.11.  On the new web server we
> installed Mailman 2.1.9.
> How can we move all the mailing lists on the old machine to the new
> machine including the membership list and the archives.
> Thanks for any help.
> 

I just recently went through this, following instructions provided in
an older email.  I'll forward the email to you privately.

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the
voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the
path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source
of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone
lives in fear. --Harry S Truman


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec 20 16:58:46 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:58:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving mailman lists to a new machine
In-Reply-To: <1198159712.9083.20.camel@cami-as.weizmann.ac.il>
Message-ID: <PC176020071220075846046899358302@msapiro>

Camelia Botez wrote:

>We are in the process of moving to a new web server.  On the old web
>server we are running Mailman 2.0.11.  On the new web server we
>installed Mailman 2.1.9.
>How can we move all the mailing lists on the old machine to the new
>machine including the membership list and the archives.


You posted almost the identical question 5 days ago and I replied
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-December/059584.html>.

Please read that reply, and if you have further questions, please be
more specific about what parts of the reply you don't understand or
what the problems are.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From danb at zu.com  Thu Dec 20 16:56:48 2007
From: danb at zu.com (Dan Brown)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:56:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the From: address...
Message-ID: <024f01c84320$ee13ab20$3200a8c0@DAN>


I've got a bunch of mail lists on a server which are all announcement only
lists.
On all of these lists the "From:" address is like how it is on the
mailman-users list.
It'll show up like:
mailman-users-bounces+danb at zu.com@python.org on behalf of "Some User
[su at wackedout.net]"

Now I know everything from "on behalf of..." onward is due to my mail client
and not the list.  I would like the emails to be showing as coming from
either just:

eg. mailman-users at python.org on behalf of "Some User [su at wackedout.net]"
or
eg. mailman-users-bounces at python.org on behalf of "Some User
[su at wackedout.net]"

Now while there is the "anonymous_list" option, this looks as though it will
remove everything so it would just show up as:

eg. mailman-users at python.org

I'm unsure what to call this and the personalization options don't seem to
be what I want either but I am playing around with a test list to figure out
what option is the correct one to do this.

Can someone fast-track me to it?

Thanks
___________________________________________________
Dan Brown
danb at zu.com


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec 20 17:17:45 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 08:17:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SPAM to ******-bounces lists
In-Reply-To: <00d401c84313$1dab8a00$59029e00$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602007122008174507344f017b2b@msapiro>

Jon Slater wrote:
>
>I am receiving an excess amount of SPAM to my ?bounces? lists.  For example
>?board-bounces? or ?members-bounces?.

<snip>

>Is there some setting somewhere that can block these or a way to link these
>accounts to SpamAssassin that can stop this?


You can turn off bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner. Then you have
the problem that a list member may be bouncing with an unrecognized
DSN, and you won't know it, but in my experience, this is rare. YMMV


It is better to block these with SpamAssassin in the MTA before they
ever get to Mailman, but you could create your own process which would
filter the mail and then pipe it to Mailman's mail wrapper with the
appropriate arguments, and arrange for the MTA to pipe the -bounces
mail to your process instead of directly to the mail wrapper.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec 20 18:04:47 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:04:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the From: address...
In-Reply-To: <024f01c84320$ee13ab20$3200a8c0@DAN>
Message-ID: <PC176020071220090447056230325401@msapiro>

Dan Brown wrote:
>
>I've got a bunch of mail lists on a server which are all announcement only
>lists.
>On all of these lists the "From:" address is like how it is on the
>mailman-users list.
>It'll show up like:
>mailman-users-bounces+danb at zu.com@python.org on behalf of "Some User
>[su at wackedout.net]"
>
>Now I know everything from "on behalf of..." onward is due to my mail client
>and not the list.


That is not actually correct. The part that Microsoft Outlook (and
possibly other MUAs, but Outlook is the main one) adds is the part
after From: through 'on behalf of'. Most MUA's just show

 From: Some User <su at wackedout.net>


>I would like the emails to be showing as coming from
>either just:
>
>eg. mailman-users at python.org on behalf of "Some User [su at wackedout.net]"
>or
>eg. mailman-users-bounces at python.org on behalf of "Some User
>[su at wackedout.net]"
>
>Now while there is the "anonymous_list" option, this looks as though it will
>remove everything so it would just show up as:
>
>eg. mailman-users at python.org

Actually, I thing that making the list anonymous won't help you at all.
It will make the From header be, e.g.

From: Mailman mailing list management users <mailman-users at python.org>

(the text part is the list's 'description') instead of

From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>,

but the Sender will still be, e.g.,
mailman-users-bounces+dan=zu.com at python.org


>I'm unsure what to call this and the personalization options don't seem to
>be what I want either but I am playing around with a test list to figure out
>what option is the correct one to do this.


The "+recipient=example.com" part of the Sender: is a VERP like sender.
In order to remove it, you need to remove whatever mm_cfg.py options
you have set in mm_cfg.py (assuming this is your Mailman installation)
that are causing it to be added. These are things like:

VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes  (default = No), and
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1  (default = 0)


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec 20 18:07:58 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:07:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SPAM to ******-bounces lists
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007122008174507344f017b2b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712200907580781303254e7@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>You can turn off bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner. Then you have
>the problem that a list member may be bouncing with an unrecognized
>DSN, and you won't know it, but in my experience, this is rare. YMMV

Also, if you set

VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1

in mm_cfg.py to enable a VERP-like sender, bounces of list mail
/should/ never be unrecognized.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cyndi at tikvah.com  Thu Dec 20 18:08:33 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:08:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stability of Mailman 2.1.10
Message-ID: <200712201708.lBKH8XG6023796@b.mail.sonic.net>

I asked my ISP to upgrade to the new version of MM (they're using 2.1.9).
I'm especially excited about the admin_member_chunksize feature.  Their
reply: "From their site it appears this is not a stable release...I expect
we will not be upgrading until it is indicated it is the latest stable
release."

Any comments I can pass along to them?

Thanks,
Cyndi


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec 20 18:52:57 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:52:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stability of Mailman 2.1.10
In-Reply-To: <200712201708.lBKH8XG6023796@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712200952570484e5fe4add@msapiro>

Cyndi Norwitz wrote:

>I asked my ISP to upgrade to the new version of MM (they're using 2.1.9).
>I'm especially excited about the admin_member_chunksize feature.  Their
>reply: "From their site it appears this is not a stable release...I expect
>we will not be upgrading until it is indicated it is the latest stable
>release."


It is currently the first beta release. The final 'stable' release will
not be made before Feb 2008.

I think it is quite solid. I am running my production lists on it, but
most of the translations are not up to date, and there will be changes
(I've already made 2) and probably one more release before the final.
So, unless they want to upgrade twice, I think it's reasonable that
they would want to wait for the final.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ben at easy2usekzn.co.za  Thu Dec 20 19:09:57 2007
From: ben at easy2usekzn.co.za (Ben Botes)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:09:57 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Retrieving list members
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANzRCOXjmi9Kr+YvtH46A/nCgAAAEAAAAI65cdP2w0NBoHePKm9LMB8BAAAAAA==@easy2usekzn.co.za>

Hi,

I need to get a list of all the members that is still subscribed to my
mailing list sent to me. How can this be done?

Regards

Ben Botes




From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Thu Dec 20 19:16:00 2007
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:16:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stability of Mailman 2.1.10
In-Reply-To: <200712201708.lBKH8XG6023796@b.mail.sonic.net>
References: <200712201708.lBKH8XG6023796@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <20071220181600.GH3561@charite.de>

* Cyndi Norwitz <cyndi at tikvah.com>:
> I asked my ISP to upgrade to the new version of MM (they're using 2.1.9).
> I'm especially excited about the admin_member_chunksize feature.  Their
> reply: "From their site it appears this is not a stable release...I expect
> we will not be upgrading until it is indicated it is the latest stable
> release."
> 
> Any comments I can pass along to them?

Works like a charm for our 8000 member lists.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                    send no mail to plonk at charite.de

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec 20 19:33:40 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:33:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Retrieving list members
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANzRCOXjmi9Kr+YvtH46A/nCgAAAEAAAAI65cdP2w0NBoHePKm9LMB8BAAAAAA==@easy2usekzn.co.za>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712201033400984f2af7260@msapiro>

Ben Botes wrote:
>
>I need to get a list of all the members that is still subscribed to my
>mailing list sent to me. How can this be done?

<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From joel.plane at gmail.com  Thu Dec 20 14:34:02 2007
From: joel.plane at gmail.com (Joel Plane)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 00:34:02 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] recipients addresses visible in To field
Message-ID: <1198157642.6149.9.camel@joel2>

Hi,

I have set up a mailing list for sending out a monthly newsletter.
It works well, except all recipients can see each others email addresses
in the To field. How do I prevent this?

I've a had genuine search on the Internet for answers but haven't found
anything yet.

Thanks.

Joel.


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec 20 21:15:50 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:15:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] recipients addresses visible in To field
In-Reply-To: <1198157642.6149.9.camel@joel2>
Message-ID: <PC176020071220121550007833192ee0@msapiro>

Joel Plane wrote:
>
>I have set up a mailing list for sending out a monthly newsletter.
>It works well, except all recipients can see each others email addresses
>in the To field. How do I prevent this?


It seems that you are not using Mailman, but rather are doing something
like using a 'group' in your address book.

Mailman doesn't put other list member addresses in the mail that it
sends.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rwalls at mcclatchyinteractive.com  Thu Dec 20 21:53:30 2007
From: rwalls at mcclatchyinteractive.com (Robin Walls)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:53:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe button not working on
Message-ID: <476AD64A.6070703@mcclatchyinteractive.com>

On http://lists.mcclatchyinteractive.com/mailman/listinfo/tricitynews, 
the opening form tags with actions seem to be missing from the html.  Is 
there a place I can go in and manually edit these or another way to 
repair the page?
e.g. of missing tag on "Subscribe" button

<FORM Method=POST ACTION="http://lists.mcclatchyinteractive.com/mailman/subscribe/tricitynews">

Thank you,

-- 
Robin Walls
McClatchy Interactive
(919) 861-1243
AIM:rwallsmi


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Dec 20 22:27:13 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:27:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe button not working on
In-Reply-To: <476AD64A.6070703@mcclatchyinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020071220132713029667915015@msapiro>

Robin Walls wrote:

>On http://lists.mcclatchyinteractive.com/mailman/listinfo/tricitynews, 
>the opening form tags with actions seem to be missing from the html.  Is 
>there a place I can go in and manually edit these or another way to 
>repair the page?
>e.g. of missing tag on "Subscribe" button


Someone has edited the listinfo.html template and in the process of
removing some of the leading sections, removed the
<MM-Subscribe-Form-Start> tag.

Hopefully, the edit was done via the link in the web admin interface or
following the guidelines at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>,
and the base templates/en/listinfo.html template is still intact. If
so, you can diff the edited template (possibly
lists/tricitynews/en/listinfo.html) against the original and figure
out where the <MM-Subscribe-Form-Start> should go. Or in your case,
since the language form has been removed, you can probably put it
right after the <BODY ...> tag.

The real issue is the <MM-Subscribe-Form-Start> tag is easy to miss
when editing the template because it actually is too early on the page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Dec 20 22:31:08 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:31:08 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stability of Mailman 2.1.10
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200712200952570484e5fe4add@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200712200952570484e5fe4add@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3908f2338e7@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/20/07, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  I think it is quite solid. I am running my production lists on it, but
>  most of the translations are not up to date, and there will be changes
>  (I've already made 2) and probably one more release before the final.

I'm going to be installing it soon for python.org, which will include 
all lists on that domain (including this one), so you will all get to 
be guinea pigs and you can tell me whether or not it's stable enough 
for production use.

We will definitely do this before the official stable version is 
shipped, so that we can feel comfortable enough in the beta that is 
available.

>  So, unless they want to upgrade twice, I think it's reasonable that
>  they would want to wait for the final.

I don't mind having us do the upgrade twice.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From robert at skipperweb.org  Fri Dec 21 00:08:49 2007
From: robert at skipperweb.org (Robert Boyd Skipper)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:08:49 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some members not receiving all posts
Message-ID: <476AF601.4030704@skipperweb.org>

I've looked through the FAQ and the archives, but can't locate an answer to this.  A few 
members subscribed to my list say they are not receiving every post.  They know this by 
scrolling down the posts that are replies, and seeing chunks in the history that they 
never saw.  They can go to the online archive and find the missing posts.  Other users 
seem not to have this problem.  More than one user has reported this problem.

Because it is sporadic and unpredictable, I don't know where to start troubleshooting.

Also, I did not install mailman myself.  My provider has made it available.  He is using 
mailman 2.1.9.cp2.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.


-- 
Robert Boyd Skipper
P.O. Box 593
Wimberley, TX 78676

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Dec 21 00:28:58 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:28:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some members not receiving all posts
In-Reply-To: <476AF601.4030704@skipperweb.org>
References: <476AF601.4030704@skipperweb.org>
Message-ID: <200712202316.lBKNFTYb023948@unreal.eroded.org>

Robert Boyd Skipper wrote:
>I've looked through the FAQ and the archives, but can't locate an 
>answer to this.  A few
>members subscribed to my list say they are not receiving every 
>post.  They know this by
>scrolling down the posts that are replies, and seeing chunks in the 
>history that they
>never saw.  They can go to the online archive and find the missing 
>posts.  Other users
>seem not to have this problem.  More than one user has reported this problem.
>
>Because it is sporadic and unpredictable, I don't know where to 
>start troubleshooting.
>
>Also, I did not install mailman myself.  My provider has made it 
>available.  He is using
>mailman 2.1.9.cp2.
>
>Thanks in advance for any ideas.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Are any of them using web mail programs, in particular Gmail? There 
is a well known "feature" of Gmail where it suppresses display of a 
user's own posts if the message ID matches one of an e-mail the user sent.

This is covered in the FAQ but it would be hard to find if you didn't 
know how to find it or if that was the exact symptom.

See if this might be of use:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.042.htp

Particularly the part about Gmail near the bottom.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Dec 21 00:38:52 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:38:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some members not receiving all posts
In-Reply-To: <476AF601.4030704@skipperweb.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200712201538520312e3aeffcc@msapiro>

Robert Boyd Skipper wrote:

>I've looked through the FAQ and the archives, but can't locate an answer to this.  A few 
>members subscribed to my list say they are not receiving every post.  They know this by 
>scrolling down the posts that are replies, and seeing chunks in the history that they 
>never saw.  They can go to the online archive and find the missing posts.  Other users 
>seem not to have this problem.  More than one user has reported this problem.
>
>Because it is sporadic and unpredictable, I don't know where to start troubleshooting.
>
>Also, I did not install mailman myself.  My provider has made it available.  He is using 
>mailman 2.1.9.cp2.


Here's what I suggest. First be sure that bounce_processing and
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner are both set to Yes. Then you
will receive any unrecognized bounce notices that might come from
these members and recognized bounce notices will be logged in
Mailman's bounce log - you may need your providers assistance to see
that or to determine if bounces are being recorded for the affected
members.

You can also go to a members 'options' page by following the link (the
member's email) from the admin Membership list, and if the member has
a current bounce score, it will be noted near the top of the page.

Whether or not Mailman is actually seeing bounces for these members,
this is almost certainly not Mailman's problem. You might be able to
learn more from the outgoing MTA's logs, but I think the most likely
cause is some kind of filtering going on either in the recipient's
mail clients (MUAs) or their ISPs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From joel.plane at gmail.com  Fri Dec 21 13:09:31 2007
From: joel.plane at gmail.com (Joel Plane)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 23:09:31 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] recipients addresses visible in To field
In-Reply-To: <476BA882.2000007@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <1198157642.6149.9.camel@joel2>
	<476BA882.2000007@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <1198238971.6154.5.camel@joel2>

Turns out you're right. It wasn't my list, it was a client's, so I
didn't send out the email. They do have a mailman list, but they didn't
use it for some reason, as is evident by the lack of the List headers
etc.

Thanks.

On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 06:50 -0500, Charles Marcus wrote:
> On 12/20/2007, Joel Plane (joel.plane at gmail.com) wrote:
> > I have set up a mailing list for sending out a monthly newsletter. It
> > works well, except all recipients can see each others email addresses
> > in the To field. How do I prevent this?
> 
> Either use the BCC field, or use a real mail list software like 
> mailman... but you certainly aren't using mailman for this list, so 
> don't know why you are posting your question here...
> 


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Fri Dec 21 13:20:09 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 07:20:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe button not working on
In-Reply-To: <PC176020071220132713029667915015@msapiro>
References: <PC176020071220132713029667915015@msapiro>
Message-ID: <476BAF79.4040904@Media-Brokers.com>

On 12/20/2007, Mark Sapiro (mark at msapiro.net) wrote:
> The real issue is the <MM-Subscribe-Form-Start> tag is easy to miss
> when editing the template because it actually is too early on the 
> page.

And so of course this is fixed for 2.1.10?

;)

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Fri Dec 21 20:30:58 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:30:58 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting Address in accept_these_nonmembers
	(was Add to filter from commandline?)
Message-ID: <200712211930.lBLJUwZH026272@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

>From a posting back in August:

Willendrup, Peter Kj?r wrote:
>> 
>> I have two mailinglists sitting on the same machine, one being the general
>> user mailinglist (A) and the other one the software developer list (B) (B is
>> reachable by a commonly known 'support' email adress).
>> 
>> Is there an easy way to allow members of list A to write messages to list B
>> without being members of B?
>
>
>See
><http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>
>for a patch to allow this.
>
>
>> My current solution is to add the members of A to the accepts filter of list
>> B - something that I am currently doing using the web interface...
>> 
>> My real question is: Is it possible to add addresses to the 'accepts' filter
>> of a mailinglist from the commandline?

And Mark Sapiro replied:
>Not directly, but in a shell script you could prepare a file that looks like
>
>mlist.accept_these_nonmembers.append('usera at example.com')
>mlist.accept_these_nonmembers.append('userb at example.com')
>
>and so on for all the non-members you want to add and then run
>
>bin/config_list -i filename listname
>
>where filename is the name of the above file.
>
>Alternatively, you could just prepare an input file that looks like
>
>accept_these_nonmembers = [
>'usera at example.com',
>'userb at example.com',
>'userc at example.net',
>'userd at example.net',
>]
>
>wherein all the addresses (not just adds) for accept_these_nonmembers
>are listed, and then run the same config_list command. See
>
>bin/config_list --help

I have implemented a script to add an address to

     accept_these_nonmembers

in a collection of Mailman lists, and I am wondering if there is a
similar mechanism for deleting an address in

     accept_these_nonmembers

in a collection of Mailman lists.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Dec 22 19:50:03 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 10:50:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe button not working on
In-Reply-To: <476BAF79.4040904@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020071222105003001560ba8c32@msapiro>

Charles Marcus wrote:

>On 12/20/2007, Mark Sapiro (mark at msapiro.net) wrote:
>> The real issue is the <MM-Subscribe-Form-Start> tag is easy to miss
>> when editing the template because it actually is too early on the 
>> page.
>
>And so of course this is fixed for 2.1.10?


Not yet. It might be, but i18n considerations make the fix far from
trivial. Changing any messages or templates impacts 34 (current count)
translations.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Dec 22 20:59:45 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:59:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting Address in accept_these_nonmembers(was
	Add to filter from commandline?)
In-Reply-To: <200712211930.lBLJUwZH026272@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC17602007122211594502031679bb78@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:
>
>>From a posting back in August:
>
>Willendrup, Peter Kj?r wrote:
>>> 
>>> My real question is: Is it possible to add addresses to the 'accepts' filter
>>> of a mailinglist from the commandline?
>
>And Mark Sapiro replied:
>>Not directly, but in a shell script you could prepare a file that looks like
>>
>>mlist.accept_these_nonmembers.append('usera at example.com')
>>mlist.accept_these_nonmembers.append('userb at example.com')
>>
>>and so on for all the non-members you want to add and then run
>>
>>bin/config_list -i filename listname
>>
>>where filename is the name of the above file.
>
>I have implemented a script to add an address to
>
>     accept_these_nonmembers
>
>in a collection of Mailman lists, and I am wondering if there is a
>similar mechanism for deleting an address in
>
>     accept_these_nonmembers
>
>in a collection of Mailman lists.


mlist.accept_these_nonmembers.remove('user at example.com')

but it would probably be better to do

user = 'user at example.com'
try:
    mlist.accept_these_nonmembers.remove(user)
except ValueError:
    print 'User: %s not in accept_these_nonmembers' % user

or maybe just

try:
    mlist.accept_these_nonmembers.remove('user at example.com')
except ValueError:
    pass

but, now you're getting into the realm of Python coding and it would be
better still to write a complete Python script rather than using
config_list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Dec 23 08:18:19 2007
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 23:18:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting Address in
	accept_these_nonmembers(wasAdd to filter from commandline?)
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007122211594502031679bb78@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC176020071222231819057892c5c475@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>but, now you're getting into the realm of Python coding and it would be
>better still to write a complete Python script rather than using
>config_list.


See <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/non_members> (mirrored at
<http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~msapiro/scripts/non_members> and
<http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/non_members>) for an example.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From sburkard at gmail.com  Tue Dec 25 17:05:37 2007
From: sburkard at gmail.com (Stefan Burkard)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 17:05:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Variables in welcome message are not replaced
Message-ID: <60f02a250712250805y72a95cb7m4ed7669981c6c44d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all
I set up a mailman mailinglist (everything preinstalled on a plesk-based
hosting) and have a strange effect.

When I subscribe a user from my address by using the email-command with the
optional "address=<user-address>", the user receives the
confirmation-message without problems. BUT if the user replies to the
message (to confirm), he gets a welcome-message with the variable-codes
instead of the real values.

When the user himself does the same procedure (obviously without the
address= option, that is not needed in this case), the welcome-message looks
just fine.

I tried the same with the mailman-users-list itself and it worked, so I
think this is not a bug - at least not in the actual version. I am using
version 2.1.5.

Can anybody help me with this one?
Regards
Stefan

From robert at skipperweb.org  Wed Dec 26 18:54:56 2007
From: robert at skipperweb.org (Robert Boyd Skipper)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 11:54:56 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriptions being disabled
Message-ID: <47729570.8090809@skipperweb.org>

Ok.  Here is another problem.

Today, I found that the subscriptions of twenty or so members have been disabled for 
excessive bounces.  The message accompanying each disabled subscription is:

":fail: Domain skipperweb.org has exceeded the max emails per hour. Message discarded.

Now, this is odd, because there seems to have been only one message sent out for the 
whole day.  I did not receive any previous bounce notifications from these addresses, so 
if they are bouncing something with my listname on it, it isn't coming back to me in any 
way that I can find it.  I've got the list-owner and the list-moderator set for my email 
address.  I've got every notification I can find set for yes.  I have bounce processing 
turned on.  The bounce_score_threshold is set for 5.0.

So, while I go and enable everyone's subscription again, maybe someone can throw some 
more ideas at me.

Skipper



-- 
Robert Boyd Skipper
P.O. Box 593
Wimberley, TX 78676

From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Wed Dec 26 20:22:10 2007
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 13:22:10 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriptions being disabled
In-Reply-To: <47729570.8090809@skipperweb.org>
References: <47729570.8090809@skipperweb.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0712261314340.28524@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Wed, 26 Dec 2007, Robert Boyd Skipper wrote:

> Ok.  Here is another problem.
>
> Today, I found that the subscriptions of twenty or so members have been disabled for
> excessive bounces.  The message accompanying each disabled subscription is:
>
> ":fail: Domain skipperweb.org has exceeded the max emails per hour. Message discarded.
>
> Now, this is odd, because there seems to have been only one message sent out for the
> whole day.

The message seems pretty self-explanatory to me. It sounds like your
provider limits you to a certain number of outgoing messages per hour and
you've exceeded it.

Depending on how you have mailman configured and how your your provider
counts e-mails (by message or by recipient), one e-mail to the list will
generate one or more outgoing messages. If you have VERP or full
personalization turned on, then each message to the list will generate one
outgoing message for each recipient.

For example, with VERP on, if you have 120 members, then you generate 120
outgoing messages. If the limit is 100 per hour, then at least 20 of them
will bounce (the exact number will depend on how many other outgoing
messages you've sent that hour for other reasons, e.g., you message to
this list).

> I did not receive any previous bounce notifications from these
> addresses, so if they are bouncing something with my listname on it, it
> isn't coming back to me in any way that I can find it.
...
> I have bounce processing turned on.  The bounce_score_threshold is set
> for 5.0.

With bounce processing turned on, you don't get notified until the bounce
threshold is exceeded. Until then, the bounces get logged in the Mailman
bounce log but that's it. So all of them have bounced five times before
you were notified.

-- Larry Stone
   lstone19 at stonejongleux.com

From robert at skipperweb.org  Wed Dec 26 20:33:27 2007
From: robert at skipperweb.org (Robert Boyd Skipper)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 13:33:27 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriptions being disabled
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0712261314340.28524@albion.stonejongleux.com>
References: <47729570.8090809@skipperweb.org>
	<Pine.OSX.4.58.0712261314340.28524@albion.stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <4772AC87.1040800@skipperweb.org>

Larry:

Thank you.  What was not clear to me was who discarded the message.  You're saying it 
was my own provider.  That explains a lot.  I thought it was the recipient.

If my provider is blocking the last few names on my low-volume list, I've got a serious 
problem. Thanks again for explaining so clearly and patiently.

Skipper


Larry Stone wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Dec 2007, Robert Boyd Skipper wrote:
> 
>> Ok.  Here is another problem.
>>
>> Today, I found that the subscriptions of twenty or so members have been disabled for
>> excessive bounces.  The message accompanying each disabled subscription is:
>>
>> ":fail: Domain skipperweb.org has exceeded the max emails per hour. Message discarded.
>>
>> Now, this is odd, because there seems to have been only one message sent out for the
>> whole day.
> 
> The message seems pretty self-explanatory to me. It sounds like your
> provider limits you to a certain number of outgoing messages per hour and
> you've exceeded it.
> 
> Depending on how you have mailman configured and how your your provider
> counts e-mails (by message or by recipient), one e-mail to the list will
> generate one or more outgoing messages. If you have VERP or full
> personalization turned on, then each message to the list will generate one
> outgoing message for each recipient.
> 
> For example, with VERP on, if you have 120 members, then you generate 120
> outgoing messages. If the limit is 100 per hour, then at least 20 of them
> will bounce (the exact number will depend on how many other outgoing
> messages you've sent that hour for other reasons, e.g., you message to
> this list).
> 
>> I did not receive any previous bounce notifications from these
>> addresses, so if they are bouncing something with my listname on it, it
>> isn't coming back to me in any way that I can find it.
> ...
>> I have bounce processing turned on.  The bounce_score_threshold is set
>> for 5.0.
> 
> With bounce processing turned on, you don't get notified until the bounce
> threshold is exceeded. Until then, the bounces get logged in the Mailman
> bounce log but that's it. So all of them have bounced five times before
> you were notified.
> 
> -- Larry Stone
>    lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/robert%40skipperweb.org
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 

-- 
Robert Boyd Skipper
P.O. Box 593
Wimberley, TX 78676

From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in  Thu Dec 27 11:45:25 2007
From: vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in (Vinita Aggarwal)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 16:15:25 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no dupes across lists?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007121611311706095382adf2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <017601c84875$9a776ab0$4503010a@undp.org.in>

Hi,

I have Three lists list1 at domain.com (1000 members) and list2 at domain.com
(1500 members) and list3 at domain.com . Now, In list3 at domain.com I have only
two members i.e. list1 at domain.com and list2 at domain.com.

If I send any message to list3 at domain.com it goes to all the members of
list1 and list2 but the members who are in both list1 and list2 gets
duplicate copies. How to prevent that? I don't want to send duplicate
messages.


Please advise.

Regards,
Vinita Aggarwal

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+vinita.aggarwal=un.org.in at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+vinita.aggarwal=un.org.in at python.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 1:01 AM
To: Stephen J. Turnbull; Allan Hansen
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] no dupes across lists?

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Allan Hansen writes:
>
> > That's interesting.
> > 
> > I run Mailman 2.1.5 (Mac OS X 10.4) and have the 'problem' that
> > when someone posts to two lists at a time, I get only one message. I
> > actually do want to get both for archival purposes. If this is not a
> > function of Mailman 2.1.5, I wonder where the other message is
> > cut. :-)
>
>What do you mean by "get"?  I "get" both messages in my system
>mailbox, but because I have duplicate suppression on in my MUA, I only
>"see" one.  The MUA automatically skips any message with a Message-ID
>that it has already seen.
>
>I would assume you've got a similar feature, perhaps not in your MUA
>but in the MDA or MTA.


This is definitely a gmail 'feature' to the extent that you won't see
your own list posts because they are 'duplicates' of the sent message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

------------------------------------------------------
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http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
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From gmillerd at gmail.com  Thu Dec 27 15:02:31 2007
From: gmillerd at gmail.com (Gabriel Millerd)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 08:02:31 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no dupes across lists?
In-Reply-To: <017601c84875$9a776ab0$4503010a@undp.org.in>
References: <PC17602007121611311706095382adf2@msapiro>
	<017601c84875$9a776ab0$4503010a@undp.org.in>
Message-ID: <8f551a650712270602j2fb3a344p6f475761d8c8ab19@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 27, 2007 4:45 AM, Vinita Aggarwal <vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in> wrote:
> I have Three lists list1 at domain.com (1000 members) and list2 at domain.com
> (1500 members) and list3 at domain.com . Now, In list3 at domain.com I have only
> two members i.e. list1 at domain.com and list2 at domain.com.
>
  write cron script that does something similar to this (typed free
hand, mileage may vary), or perhaps runs opportunistically, so that
your creating the actual list membership nearly on the fly

LIST=/tmp/list3.lst
./remove_members list3
(./list_members list1; ./list_members list2) | tr -t '[:upper:]'
'[:lower:]' |sort -u > ${LIST}
./add_members -w=n -a=n -r=/tmp/list3.lst list3
rm ${LIST}

From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in  Fri Dec 28 15:52:59 2007
From: vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in (Vinita Aggarwal)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 20:22:59 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no dupes across lists?
In-Reply-To: <8f551a650712270602j2fb3a344p6f475761d8c8ab19@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001501c84961$5a553c90$314fe0dc@undp.org.in>

Thanks for your suggestion

Regards,
Vinita Aggarwal

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+vinita.aggarwal=un.org.in at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+vinita.aggarwal=un.org.in at python.org] On
Behalf Of Gabriel Millerd
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 7:33 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] no dupes across lists?

On Dec 27, 2007 4:45 AM, Vinita Aggarwal <vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in> wrote:
> I have Three lists list1 at domain.com (1000 members) and list2 at domain.com
> (1500 members) and list3 at domain.com . Now, In list3 at domain.com I have only
> two members i.e. list1 at domain.com and list2 at domain.com.
>
  write cron script that does something similar to this (typed free
hand, mileage may vary), or perhaps runs opportunistically, so that
your creating the actual list membership nearly on the fly

LIST=/tmp/list3.lst
./remove_members list3
(./list_members list1; ./list_members list2) | tr -t '[:upper:]'
'[:lower:]' |sort -u > ${LIST}
./add_members -w=n -a=n -r=/tmp/list3.lst list3
rm ${LIST}
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/vinita.aggarwal%40un.or
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From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in  Fri Dec 28 15:55:00 2007
From: vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in (Vinita Aggarwal)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 20:25:00 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] To know when(Date) the subscriber in added in
	mailing list through mass subscription option
In-Reply-To: <8f551a650712270602j2fb3a344p6f475761d8c8ab19@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001601c84961$a2e45ef0$314fe0dc@undp.org.in>

Hi,

Is there any way by which I can find out the date on which a particular
email id was added in mailman mailing list?


Please suggest 


Regards,
Vinita Aggarwal



From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Dec 28 17:42:28 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 10:42:28 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] To know when(Date) the subscriber in added in
 mailing list through mass subscription option
In-Reply-To: <001601c84961$a2e45ef0$314fe0dc@undp.org.in>
References: <001601c84961$a2e45ef0$314fe0dc@undp.org.in>
Message-ID: <p06240801c39ad7d2b34f@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/28/07, Vinita Aggarwal wrote:

>  Is there any way by which I can find out the date on which a particular
>  email id was added in mailman mailing list?

Look in the logfile "/usr/local/mailman/logs/subscribe".

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From cyndi at tikvah.com  Sat Dec 29 06:55:01 2007
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 21:55:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Excerpt
Message-ID: <200712290555.lBT5t1JL029460@a.mail.sonic.net>

Okay, I searched the FAQ and found nothing even remotely related.

And I got a list from my ISP of all the changes they've made to the
standard install and it's not among them.

When a message comes through for moderation I can click on it and then I
get the full header and the "Message Excerpt."

The problem is that it truncates (hense the "excerpt").  With spam, I don't
care, because I'm obviously going to reject it.  But I have several
listmembers who are on permanant moderation because they don't understand
what a copyright is and they try to post entire articles.  Or they cut and
paste a long web page (not from their own site).  Or they quote entire
digests.  Stuff like that.

I can't always tell from the Message Excerpt if that is happening and I've
made mistakes.  So I have to go into my email and look for the notification
of the moderation request.  The full text of the attempted post is in
there.  It's a pain though, and I don't plan to always have immediate
notification turned on.

I would really like to be able to see the full text in that window.  Or to
be able to click on a link that shows it to me.

At the very least, something that tells me how many lines are in the email
would be great.  On the summary page it says the number of bytes.  But that
doesn't help that much because it depends on the density of the lines (and
it's hard to remember what bytes mean in terms of post length).  Plus that
information is not on the detail page!  I have to go back and forth to see
it.

Is there anything I can do?  Is there anything my ISP can do?  Is this a
new feature request?

Thanks,
Cyndi


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Dec 29 10:16:49 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 03:16:49 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Excerpt
In-Reply-To: <200712290555.lBT5t1JL029460@a.mail.sonic.net>
References: <200712290555.lBT5t1JL029460@a.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <p06240803c39bbfd213c4@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/28/07, Cyndi Norwitz wrote:

>  Okay, I searched the FAQ and found nothing even remotely related.

You're right.  You won't find this one there.  I'm not sure there's 
anything in the archives about it, either.

>  At the very least, something that tells me how many lines are in the email
>  would be great.  On the summary page it says the number of bytes.  But that
>  doesn't help that much because it depends on the density of the lines (and
>  it's hard to remember what bytes mean in terms of post length).  Plus that
>  information is not on the detail page!  I have to go back and forth to see
>  it.

In terms of what would be easy to do, I think the simplest would be 
to increase the number of message body lines that you can see. 
Towards this end, in the file Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py you find the 
definition "EXCERPT_HEIGHT = 10".  If you (or your ISP) sets this to 
a higher number (like 100), then stops and restarts Mailman, then in 
all future instances you should see 100 lines of message body in your 
"excerpt".

Anything more than that would take source code modifications, I'm afraid.


Unfortunately, this value does not appear to be something that is 
defined in Mailman/Defaults.py or which could be over-ridden in 
Mailman/mm_cfg.py.  Moreover, this is going to affect all lists on 
the server.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Sat Dec 29 17:34:39 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:34:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman won't 'start' - but is working?
Message-ID: <4776771F.6040306@Media-Brokers.com>

Ok, maybe this is an issue with my understanding, but...

I am on a gentoo system, trying to clean up some things (inherited) - 
duplicates, etc. I had an old version of Mailman (2.1.7) and 2.1.9 
installed.

I removed the 2.1.7 version with no apparent problems, but then updated 
2.1.9 to the latest rev - 2.1.9-r2 (this is in the testing/unstable repo 
on gentoo, so maybe this is a bug with this package)...

They aren't supposed to make major changes between minor rev bumps like 
this, but they did this time:

1. The install directory was changed from /usr/local/mailman to 
/usr/lib64/mailman.

2. They also split up some of the stuff... if I'm not mistaken, the 
following directories used to be in the main /usr/local/mailman:

archives
data
lists
locks
logs
qfiles
spam

but they all got moved to /var/lib/mailman...

I got all of this sorted (fixed the paths in the aliases files and in 
main.cf for postfix), and mailman seems to be working fine - I send a 
message to a list, I see it processed in the log, and the message is 
delivered to all list members... but...

If I try to 'start' mailman, it won't start - I get the (!!) error. If I 
try to stop it, it says it isn't started.

What am I missing?

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Sat Dec 29 17:44:57 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:44:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web interface not responding after upgrade...
Message-ID: <47767989.5040403@Media-Brokers.com>

Ok, this is the only other thing not working after my upgrade...

I am getting the following error when going to one of the admin pages:

*****************

Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /mailman/admin/listname/ on this server.
Apache Server at myhost.mydomain.com Port 443

*****************

Obviously either a permissions issue or another path problem, but I'm 
not sure where to look...

I don't see an 'admin' directory anywhere, though - is this the problem?

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Sat Dec 29 18:16:06 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 12:16:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman won't 'start' - but is working?
In-Reply-To: <4776771F.6040306@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <4776771F.6040306@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <477680D6.9050701@Media-Brokers.com>

Charles Marcus, on 12/29/2007 11:34 AM, said the following:
> If I try to 'start' mailman, it won't start - I get the (!!) error. If I 
> try to stop it, it says it isn't started.
> 
> What am I missing?

Hmmm... apparently the qrunner is running - if I manually issue the 
mailmanct stop or -s start commands, it appears to work...

I did verify these are correct in the startup script (see below) - but I 
also notice two things: it is dated from 2004, and it is issuing the 
command as 'su - mailman', but I am issuing the commands directly as 
root - so maybe this script didn't get updated properly?

#!/sbin/runscript
# Copyright 1999-2004 Gentoo Foundation
# Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License v2
# $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/net-mail/mailman/files/mailman.rc,v 
1.5 2004/07/14 23:50:52 agriffis Exp $

depend() {
         need net
         use logger
}

start() {
         ebegin "Starting mailman"
         su - mailman -c 'bin/mailmanctl -s start' >/dev/null 2>&1
         eend $?
}

stop() {
         ebegin "Stopping mailman"
         su - mailman -c 'bin/mailmanctl stop' >/dev/null 2>&1
         eend $?
}

svc_restart() {
         ebegin "Restarting mailman"
         su - mailman -c 'bin/mailmanctl restart' >/dev/null 2>&1
         eend $?
}

Tia for any pointers and/or whacks with a clue-stick...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 29 20:30:14 2007
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:30:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Excerpt
References: <200712290555.lBT5t1JL029460@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<p06240803c39bbfd213c4@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <002b01c84a51$54e30670$6501a8c0@sacomputer>

Would I be able to do this if I'm running mailman through my web service provider? bluehost is my web provider.

Thanks.

Sarah A

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brad Knowles" <brad at shub-internet.org>
To: <cyndi at tikvah.com>; <Mailman-Users at python.org>
Cc: <cyndi at tikvah.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Message Excerpt


On 12/28/07, Cyndi Norwitz wrote:

>  Okay, I searched the FAQ and found nothing even remotely related.

You're right.  You won't find this one there.  I'm not sure there's 
anything in the archives about it, either.

>  At the very least, something that tells me how many lines are in the email
>  would be great.  On the summary page it says the number of bytes.  But that
>  doesn't help that much because it depends on the density of the lines (and
>  it's hard to remember what bytes mean in terms of post length).  Plus that
>  information is not on the detail page!  I have to go back and forth to see
>  it.

In terms of what would be easy to do, I think the simplest would be 
to increase the number of message body lines that you can see. 
Towards this end, in the file Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py you find the 
definition "EXCERPT_HEIGHT = 10".  If you (or your ISP) sets this to 
a higher number (like 100), then stops and restarts Mailman, then in 
all future instances you should see 100 lines of message body in your 
"excerpt".

Anything more than that would take source code modifications, I'm afraid.


Unfortunately, this value does not appear to be something that is 
defined in Mailman/Defaults.py or which could be over-ridden in 
Mailman/mm_cfg.py.  Moreover, this is going to affect all lists on 
the server.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/marrie12%40gmail.com

Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Dec 29 23:02:32 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 16:02:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Excerpt
In-Reply-To: <002b01c84a51$54e30670$6501a8c0@sacomputer>
References: <200712290555.lBT5t1JL029460@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<p06240803c39bbfd213c4@[192.168.1.101]>
	<002b01c84a51$54e30670$6501a8c0@sacomputer>
Message-ID: <p06240803c39c74415e09@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/29/07, Sarah wrote:

>  Would I be able to do this if I'm running mailman through my web
>  service provider? bluehost is my web provider.

If you have direct privileged command-line access to the server where 
Mailman is installed, and they allow you to make source-code level 
changes to the Mailman software, then yes -- you would be able to 
make these changes.

Otherwise, you need to talk to your hosting provider.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From john at wa9als.com  Sat Dec 29 23:00:04 2007
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 17:00:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] check_perms question
Message-ID: <001501c84a66$310c2be0$13d8a8c0@wa9als>

Running 2.1.9 on Debian etch (stable), lists working fine except qrunner 
silently dies and noone notices until someone realizes they haven't seen any 
mail lately.  Currently worked around with cron job restarting Mailman. 
Googling around, some have suggested this might be related to 
permissions...?

Whether my perms are related to the above problem or not, I apparently do 
have some permissions problems as shown by running check_perms.  There were 
initially 70-some problems, most if not all of which were related to group 
being root instead of list.  I ran check_perms -f (as root) and many, but 
not all, were fixed.  Now there are 17 that still show having the same 
problem - group root not list - and I can't seem to fix it.  Even using 
WinSCP and trying to change the group ownership with that instead of 
check_perms -f does not give lasting results.  IOW, I can't seem to change 
the permissions!

I'm not a Linux expert, obvious from the above...  Any suggestions?  Would 
CHMOD from a server terminal be any different?  Any other comments?  I've 
checked the FAQ, but I don't see the problem there (or don't recognize it).

Thanks!  Running Mailman since 2.1.5 with essentially no problems until I 
upgraded Debian from sarge to etch and Mailman from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9.

Thanks!  - John


From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 29 23:26:37 2007
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 14:26:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Excerpt
References: <200712290555.lBT5t1JL029460@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<p06240803c39bbfd213c4@[192.168.1.101]>
	<002b01c84a51$54e30670$6501a8c0@sacomputer>
	<p06240803c39c74415e09@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <036901c84a69$f6c29d30$6501a8c0@sacomputer>

Thanks much. I'll talk to bluehost when i get another mess straightned out.

SA&G
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brad Knowles" <brad at shub-internet.org>
To: "Sarah" <marrie12 at gmail.com>; <Mailman-Users at python.org>
Cc: <cyndi at tikvah.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Message Excerpt


On 12/29/07, Sarah wrote:

>  Would I be able to do this if I'm running mailman through my web
>  service provider? bluehost is my web provider.

If you have direct privileged command-line access to the server where 
Mailman is installed, and they allow you to make source-code level 
changes to the Mailman software, then yes -- you would be able to 
make these changes.

Otherwise, you need to talk to your hosting provider.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Sat Dec 29 23:23:11 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 17:23:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web interface not responding after upgrade...
In-Reply-To: <47767989.5040403@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <47767989.5040403@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <4776C8CF.40902@Media-Brokers.com>

Charles Marcus, on 12/29/2007 11:44 AM, said the following:
> Ok, this is the only other thing not working after my upgrade...
> 
> I am getting the following error when going to one of the admin pages:
> 
> *****************
> 
> Forbidden
> 
> You don't have permission to access /mailman/admin/listname/ on this server.
> Apache Server at myhost.mydomain.com Port 443

Weird... its working now... I did restart some things and did a 
revdep-rebuild (I'm on gentoo), so something fixed it...

Thanks anyway...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Dec 30 01:32:17 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 09:32:17 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Message Excerpt
In-Reply-To: <200712290555.lBT5t1JL029460@a.mail.sonic.net>
References: <200712290555.lBT5t1JL029460@a.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <87bq896mzy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Cyndi Norwitz writes:

 > Is there anything I can do?  Is there anything my ISP can do?  Is this a
 > new feature request?

Looks like one to me, a good one, too.

While we're requesting this kind of feature, I'd like to be able to
get at the text of subscription requests, too.  My lists do get the
occasional spam to the subscription address.

I've submitted this as feature request #1860714 in the Mailman tracker
at SourceForge.

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1860714&group_id=103&atid=350103

From larry.zins at gmail.com  Sun Dec 30 07:03:49 2007
From: larry.zins at gmail.com (Larry Zins)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 22:03:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send email to non-local recipients
Message-ID: <3f87c8af0712292203l4d9ace02ocf07c0004913176a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, I've been trying for days now to get a test mailman list to work.  When
I send an email to the list "larry-test at mydomain.tld", only users that have
an unix account on the server itself receive the email.  I've searched and
tried the examples in the READMEs that came with the distribution,
main.cf.default, the internet, and nothing works.  I've got amavisd-new
working with SASL, SpamAssassin, ClamAV, and Dovecot, SquirrelMail, but I
can't get Mailman to work.

I'm using Postfix 2.3.3-2 and Mailman 2.1.9-2.

This is the current config that does'nt work:

In /etc/aliases:

## larry mailing list
larry-test:              "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post larry-test"
larry-test-admin:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin larry-test"
larry-test-bounces:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces larry-test"
2.1.9-2
larry-test-confirm:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm larry-test"
larry-test-join:         "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join larry-test"
larry-test-leave:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave larry-test"
larry-test-owner:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner larry-test"
larry-test-request:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request larry-test"
larry-test-subscribe:    "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe
larry-test"
larry-test-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe
larry-test"


In /etc/postfix/main.cf:

mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost, mydomain.tld,
fully-qualified hostname
local_recipient_maps =
virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual


In /etc/postfix/virtual:

larry-test at create.ucsb.edu              larry-test
larry-test-admin at create.ucsb.edu        larry-test-admin
larry-test-bounces at create.ucsb.edu      larry-test-bounces
larry-test-confirm at create.ucsb.edu      larry-test-confirm
larry-test-join at create.ucsb.edu         larry-test-join
larry-test-leave at create.ucsb.edu        larry-test-leave
larry-test-owner at create.ucsb.edu        larry-test-owner
larry-test-request at create.ucsb.edu      larry-test-request
larry-test-subscribe at create.ucsb.edu    larry-test-subscribe
larry-test-unsubscribe at create.ucsb.edu  larry-test-unsubscribe

And the errors:

Dec 29 21:43:10 sonic postfix/trivial-rewrite[21282]: fatal: open database
/etc/postfix/virtual.db: No such file or directory
Dec 29 21:43:10 sonic postfix/smtpd[21281]: fatal: open database
/etc/postfix/virtual.db: No such file or directory
Dec 29 21:43:11 sonic postfix/master[21166]: warning: process
/usr/libexec/postfix/smtpd pid 21281 exit status 1
Dec 29 21:43:11 sonic postfix/master[21166]: warning:
/usr/libexec/postfix/smtpd: bad command startup -- throttling
Dec 29 21:43:11 sonic postfix/master[21166]: warning: process
/usr/libexec/postfix/trivial-rewrite pid 21282 exit status 1
Dec 29 21:43:11 sonic postfix/master[21166]: warning:
/usr/libexec/postfix/trivial-rewrite: bad command startup -- throttling

Thanks for any tips.

Larry

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Sun Dec 30 15:13:04 2007
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 09:13:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send email to non-local recipients
In-Reply-To: <3f87c8af0712292203l4d9ace02ocf07c0004913176a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f87c8af0712292203l4d9ace02ocf07c0004913176a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4777A770.5000808@Media-Brokers.com>

On 12/30/2007, Larry Zins (larry.zins at gmail.com) wrote:
> Dec 29 21:43:10 sonic postfix/trivial-rewrite[21282]: fatal: open 
> database
> /etc/postfix/virtual.db: No such file or directory

did you execute 'postalias virtual' after creating the virtual file? 
This is how the .db file gets created.

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From larry.zins at gmail.com  Sun Dec 30 21:23:54 2007
From: larry.zins at gmail.com (Larry Zins)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 12:23:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send email to non-local recipients
In-Reply-To: <4777A770.5000808@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <3f87c8af0712292203l4d9ace02ocf07c0004913176a@mail.gmail.com>
	<4777A770.5000808@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <3f87c8af0712301223m10ff4247t9e506f41f87b0f35@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the reply Charles.  When I type the command "postalias virtual",
it complains about the format, as if it wants the format in the /etc/aliases
file.  I changed it the /etc/aliases format, but either way, it still
does'nt work.

# postalias virtual
postalias: warning: virtual, line 1: name must be local
postalias: warning: virtual, line 2: name must be local
postalias: warning: virtual, line 3: name must be local
postalias: warning: virtual, line 4: name must be local
postalias: warning: virtual, line 5: name must be local
postalias: warning: virtual, line 6: name must be local
postalias: warning: virtual, line 7: name must be local
postalias: warning: virtual, line 8: name must be local
postalias: warning: virtual, line 9: name must be local
postalias: warning: virtual, line 10: name must be local
#

I can't believe mailman is so hard to get working...  What good is a
maillist that does'nt send out of the box it's on?

Regards,
Larry

On Dec 30, 2007 6:13 AM, Charles Marcus <CMarcus at media-brokers.com> wrote:

> On 12/30/2007, Larry Zins (larry.zins at gmail.com) wrote:
> > Dec 29 21:43:10 sonic postfix/trivial-rewrite[21282]: fatal: open
> > database
> > /etc/postfix/virtual.db: No such file or directory
>
> did you execute 'postalias virtual' after creating the virtual file?
> This is how the .db file gets created.
>
> --
>
> Best regards,
>
> Charles
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/larry.zins%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Dec 30 21:36:12 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 14:36:12 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send email to non-local recipients
In-Reply-To: <3f87c8af0712292203l4d9ace02ocf07c0004913176a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f87c8af0712292203l4d9ace02ocf07c0004913176a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240804c39db181e70f@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/29/07, Larry Zins wrote:

>  Dec 29 21:43:10 sonic postfix/trivial-rewrite[21282]: fatal: open database
>  /etc/postfix/virtual.db: No such file or directory

You've got to create the virtual.db file first.  To do this, try 
"postmap virtual".  Don't use postalias, because that's just used for 
real local alias files, not virtual alias files.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Dec 30 21:37:44 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 14:37:44 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send email to non-local recipients
In-Reply-To: <3f87c8af0712301223m10ff4247t9e506f41f87b0f35@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f87c8af0712292203l4d9ace02ocf07c0004913176a@mail.gmail.com>
	<4777A770.5000808@Media-Brokers.com>
	<3f87c8af0712301223m10ff4247t9e506f41f87b0f35@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240805c39db1bef57b@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/30/07, Larry Zins wrote:

>  I can't believe mailman is so hard to get working...  What good is a
>  maillist that does'nt send out of the box it's on?

Before blaming Mailman, you might want to try to have some sort of 
minimal understanding of how the other parts of a mail system work, 
and how Mailman fits into that overall picture.

Blaming your car for being a piece of crap and not working isn't a 
particularly useful or accurate activity to participate in, if you 
couldn't be bothered to refill the fuel tank.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From larry.zins at gmail.com  Sun Dec 30 23:00:25 2007
From: larry.zins at gmail.com (Larry Zins)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 14:00:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send email to non-local recipients
In-Reply-To: <p06240804c39db181e70f@192.168.1.101>
References: <3f87c8af0712292203l4d9ace02ocf07c0004913176a@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240804c39db181e70f@192.168.1.101>
Message-ID: <3f87c8af0712301400l7fce0f06l8c5efb1f6a0b4cc@mail.gmail.com>

OK, the command "postmap virtual" accepted the virtual map file, so this is
good.  However, it still does'nt work, but for a different reason.  Now the
maillog file shows:

 Relay access denied;

The file LOCAL_RECIPIENT_README that came with the distribution says to set
the parameter "local_recipient_maps" to the empty string to fix this
problem:

local_recipient_maps =

But something is still wrong...

Thanks, Happy Holidaze
Larry

On Dec 30, 2007 12:36 PM, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:

> On 12/29/07, Larry Zins wrote:
>
> >  Dec 29 21:43:10 sonic postfix/trivial-rewrite[21282]: fatal: open
> database
> >  /etc/postfix/virtual.db: No such file or directory
>
> You've got to create the virtual.db file first.  To do this, try
> "postmap virtual".  Don't use postalias, because that's just used for
> real local alias files, not virtual alias files.
>
> --
> Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
>

From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 30 23:50:25 2007
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 14:50:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments in every message
Message-ID: <005701c84b36$62094130$6501a8c0@sacomputer>

Hello. I run a mail man list and almost every message has an attachment on it. Now there is no attachment when you look at the message but it appears to be the footer of the message that is invisible to OE and I notice that in thearchvies it says x attachments were scrubbed. Why is this. I notice this on other mail man lists I am a part of as well. what can I change to keep this from happening?  have subscribers who are upset at me and who are leaving because of this.
Thanks.

SA&G

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Dec 31 01:47:37 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 18:47:37 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send email to non-local recipients
In-Reply-To: <3f87c8af0712301400l7fce0f06l8c5efb1f6a0b4cc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f87c8af0712292203l4d9ace02ocf07c0004913176a@mail.gmail.com>	
	<p06240804c39db181e70f@192.168.1.101>
	<3f87c8af0712301400l7fce0f06l8c5efb1f6a0b4cc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c39deb366da3@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/30/07, Larry Zins wrote:

>  OK, the command "postmap virtual" accepted the virtual map file, so this
>  is good.  However, it still does'nt work, but for a different reason.  Now
>  the maillog file shows:
>
>  Relay access denied;

Assuming you have read and followed our official documentation on how 
to integrate Mailman with postfix (see 
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html>), then this would 
be a problem with postfix.  I suggest you take this matter up using 
their documentation, their FAQ, their mailing list, etc....

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Dec 31 01:48:37 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 18:48:37 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments in every message
In-Reply-To: <005701c84b36$62094130$6501a8c0@sacomputer>
References: <005701c84b36$62094130$6501a8c0@sacomputer>
Message-ID: <p06240801c39decc9cc25@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/30/07, Sarah wrote:

>  Hello. I run a mail man list and almost every message has an attachment on
>  it. Now there is no attachment when you look at the message but it appears
>  to be the footer of the message that is invisible to OE and I notice that
>  in thearchvies it says x attachments were scrubbed. Why is this. I notice
>  this on other mail man lists I am a part of as well. what can I change to
>  keep this from happening?  have subscribers who are upset at me and who
>  are leaving because of this.

Search the FAQ Wizard for "footers".

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From tony at lemlink.com.au  Mon Dec 31 09:33:38 2007
From: tony at lemlink.com.au (Tony Lembke)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:33:38 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HowTo Notes - Mailman and Sendmail Integration
Message-ID: <009CC17B-5C2B-43AF-AED6-B9FAEE592CD4@lemlink.com.au>

I've recently spent a fair deal of time integrating mailman with  
sendmail to automate the creation of alias files.
A number of postings to this list were helpful.
It's all working now, so I thought my notes may be helpful to speed  
things up for someone else.
I apologise if there are any mistakes or false steps.

Thanks to the Mailman developers and Ed Greenberg

To be read in conjunction with the mailman installation instructions at
<http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/index.htm>
and the post by Ed Greenberg at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037518.html>

-------------
Step 1
I'm using Apache2, Mailman 2.19 and FreeBSD4 and Python 2.4

-------------
Step 2
As root
#adduser
I used -> user: mailman, group:mailman, password: n

-------------
Step 3
create Installation Directory (as root)
su#  cd /usr/local/
su#  mkdir mailman
su#  chown mailman mailman
su# su mailman
su# cd mailman
su# chgrp mailnull .
su# chmod a+rx,g+ws .

-------------
Step 4
Now, go to the directory where you have downloaded mailman

su# cd /usr/home/xxxxx/mailman-2.1.9

Change back to user root
su# su root

You can ascertain the correct option for --with-mail-gid from /etc/ 
mail/sendmail.cf
su# grep "DefaultUser" /etc/mail/sendmail.cf
=> #O DefaultUser=mailnull
So use mailnull

su#  su root
su#   make clean
su#  configure --with-mail-gid=mailnull
I'm on FreeBSD so use this command
su# make DIRSETGID=: install

Now check permissions
su# cd /usr/local/mailman
su# bin/check_perms -f

My webserver runs as nobody (check httpd.conf on your system to confirm)
su# grep "User " /usr/local/apache2/conf/httpd.conf
=> User nobody

su# cd archives
su# chown nobody private
su# chmod o-x private

-------------
Step 5
Add this to your httpd-vhosts.conf, or httpd.conf depending on which  
version of Apache you are using

<VirtualHost *:80>
ServerName lists.practiceimprovement.com.au
TransferLog /dev/null
DocumentRoot /usr/home/lists/htdocs/
ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
Alias   /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
</VirtualHost>

and restart apache

-------------
Step 6
Integrating sendmail and mailman

mm-handler would not work for me (after considerable amount of time  
trying) - I think because by server was medicine.net.au and the  
address I wanted to use was practiceimprovement.org.au,
even though practiceimprovement.org.au was correctly set up on dns to  
be delegated to the right server.

So I used Ed Greenberg's approach at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037518.html>
which seems better to me.

Note: On Freebsd I first had to build sudo!

create the file /usr/sbin/mailman.aliases c
su# pico /usr/bin/mailman.aliases
containing the lines below =>

/bin/cp /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases /etc/mail/mailman.aliases
/usr/bin/newaliases

Note: I spent a lot of time bugtesting as I used 'cp' in the  
mailman.aliases script rather than /usr/cp
(it worked from the command line but not the web interface)

make it executable
su# chmod 755 /usr/sbin/mailman.aliases

Change your sendmail.cf file to include the new alias file
(for me, add this to medicine.net.au.mc)
define(`ALIAS_FILE', `/etc/mail/aliases,/etc/mail/mailman.aliases')
(and then as root)
su# /etc/mail/make install restart

Update your sudoers file ('nobody' is the user apache runs under -  
check your httpd.conf)
su# visudo
add=>
nobody ALL= NOPASSWD: /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases
mailman ALL= NOPASSWD: /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases

-------------
Step 7
my mm_cfg.py has these added

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'practiceimprovement.com.au'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.practiceimprovement.com.au'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
IMAGE_LOGOS = '/images/'
MTA='Postfix'
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/local/bin/sudo /usr/local/sbin/ 
mailman.aliases'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = []

Follow the rest of the instructions from step 7 on at ->
<http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/index.html>
-----------------
Testing
When you create a list using /bin/newlist, you should find that the  
file /etc/mail/mailman.aliases has been created / updated.
(I had some permissions to sort out in a few directories before it all  
worked smoothly)
The error log is helpful at /usr/local/mailman/logs/error

These commands can be helpful for troubleshooting, after you have  
successfully created a testlist and subscribed yourself to that list

To test mailman

su# echo "From: tony at pi.com.au
To: testlist at pi.com.au
Subject: Happy New Year
test mail body
" | /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post testlist

If that works, use this to test your sendmail/mailman integration

su# echo "From: tony at pi.com.au
To: testlist at pi.com.au
Subject: Merry Xmas
test mail body
" | /bin/sendmail -tony at pi.com.au testlist at pi.com.au

Hope this helps someone and would welcome corrections or improvements.

Happy New Year,

Tony Lembke








From barry at list.org  Mon Dec 31 19:15:46 2007
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 13:15:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HowTo Notes - Mailman and Sendmail Integration
In-Reply-To: <009CC17B-5C2B-43AF-AED6-B9FAEE592CD4@lemlink.com.au>
References: <009CC17B-5C2B-43AF-AED6-B9FAEE592CD4@lemlink.com.au>
Message-ID: <32A7D0E1-199C-43CE-9016-DC55F7E9F5C8@list.org>

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Hash: SHA1

On Dec 31, 2007, at 3:33 AM, Tony Lembke wrote:

> I've recently spent a fair deal of time integrating mailman with
> sendmail to automate the creation of alias files.
> A number of postings to this list were helpful.
> It's all working now, so I thought my notes may be helpful to speed
> things up for someone else.
> I apologise if there are any mistakes or false steps.
>
> Thanks to the Mailman developers and Ed Greenberg

Tony, what do you think about adding a page to the Mailman wiki with  
this excellent information?

http://wiki.list.org

- -Barry

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From sgruver at cis.ctc.edu  Mon Dec 31 21:08:54 2007
From: sgruver at cis.ctc.edu (Gruver, Sandi)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:08:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] not really an umbrella?
Message-ID: <A28996BB367AA74E89600FC38E9BBDB701D7FF38@athens.CISI.ctc.edu>

Mailman 2.1.5 on RedHat Linux - 

How can I set up a new list that sends to multiple existing lists - but
only sends one message to each person - even if the person is a member
of multiple lists?
 
 a.     LSOFT calls this a "superlist"
  
 b.    Can "Mailman" do this?
 
 c.     In this case, we have a system newsletter that will be sent to
multiple lists. I'd like people to receive the message only once, even
if they are on more than one of the lists included in the mailing.



Thank you,

Sandi Gruver
Unix system administrator
Center for Information Services
Bellevue, WA 98004
phone 425.803.9753
fax 425.803.9652 



From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Mon Dec 31 22:52:01 2007
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:52:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Lists
Message-ID: <20071231215215.728FE1E400D@bag.python.org>

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I had a disk failure and had to restore my Mandriva system from
backup. Everything seems to work except Mailman. Well, mailman works
but it does not recognize any of my old lists. How do I get Mailman to
see the lists again? TIA.
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