From lphillips at yourcomputerteacher.com  Tue May  1 02:56:28 2007
From: lphillips at yourcomputerteacher.com (Lisa Phillips)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:56:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate Emails - but only if first email has HTML
	or stationary
Message-ID: <10fa01c78b8b$8ddb4120$7301a8c0@INSPIRON>

I have an issue where user send out an email, that usually has html formatting in it, or as stationary background, it is sent out twice.  The second time it is sent out the formatting is gone, the background is gone, and the name on the email is usually the "real" name, vs. the display name that usually shows.  On top of that there are attachments that were not on the first email.  If there was stationary the .gif that was the stationary is there.  Here is an example of the other names of files that are attached:

GWAVADAT.TXT
4#Part.003
3#Part.002
GWAVA_2#Text.htm

If anyone can tell me what I need to do to keep the second email going out to users I would really appreciate it.  Another FYI, not all user receive these duplicate emails, but it seems like the majority do.  I would appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks,

Lisa

From msapiro at value.net  Tue May  1 04:53:35 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:53:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate Emails - but only if first email has
	HTMLor stationary
In-Reply-To: <10fa01c78b8b$8ddb4120$7301a8c0@INSPIRON>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704301953350703f10aa7a2@msapiro>

Lisa Phillips wrote:

>I have an issue where user send out an email, that usually has html formatting in it, or as stationary background, it is sent out twice.  The second time it is sent out the formatting is gone, the background is gone, and the name on the email is usually the "real" name, vs. the display name that usually shows.  On top of that there are attachments that were not on the first email.  If there was stationary the .gif that was the stationary is there.  Here is an example of the other names of files that are attached:
>
>GWAVADAT.TXT
>4#Part.003
>3#Part.002
>GWAVA_2#Text.htm


Some if not all of these names are made up by the MUA that is
displaying the mail. These attachments may or may not be shown in the
mail view as well.


>If anyone can tell me what I need to do to keep the second email going out to users I would really appreciate it.  Another FYI, not all user receive these duplicate emails, but it seems like the majority do.  I would appreciate any suggestions.


What we need to see to diagnose this further is copies of the raw
messages, i.e. the actual message source with all headers and mime
structure intact. Ideally we would like to see three messages, the
message as sent to the list and both copies as received from the list,
although just the latter two would help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Tue May  1 08:19:18 2007
From: mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Meenal Pant)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 01:19:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman with remote smtp server
Message-ID: <4636DBE6.6030107@ncsa.uiuc.edu>

Hi ,
I want to set up mailman to use a remote smtp server. How to achieve
this ? I am having trouble understanding how to set up list aliases in
/etc/alias  in particular?
Thanks
Meenal


From R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl  Tue May  1 11:53:26 2007
From: R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl (Rolf E. Sonneveld)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 11:53:26 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Troubleshooting posting of a message
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007042715400405627f8ff9d6@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007042715400405627f8ff9d6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <46370E16.9070402@sonnection.nl>

Hi,

[I changed the name of this thread, as I realized that I more or less 
hijacked this thread from bjames at cisco.com and two threads with the same 
subject proceeded in parallel, my sincere apologies to bjames at cisco.com 
and to the list]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Rolf E. Sonneveld wrote:
>   
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>     
>>> One minor point here. The post log entry is not written until the
>>> message is delivered by SMTPDirect.
>>>   
>>>       
>> OK, thus only after the message has been delivered to at least one 
>> subscriber (or the first MTA in the chain of delivery to at least one 
>> subscriber).
>>     
>
>
> Yes, the first MTA, namely the one on localhost, port 25 unless
> overridden by SMTPHOST/SMTPPORT in mm_cfg.py. There is no guarantee
> this MTA has sent the message further. You need to refer the the MTA's
> logs for that.
>   

OK, there was no message submission to the MTA, and this corresponds to 
the fact that there are no entries in smtp and smtp-failure logfiles.

>> In my case there were no entries in smtp nor in smtp-failure.
>>     
>
>
> So the message didn't get that far.
>
>
>   
>>> 1) The MTA pipes the message to the wrapper which passes it to the
>>> scripts/post script which in turn places it in the qfiles/in queue.
>>> Nothing is logged in Mailman, but the MTA normally logs the delivery.
>>>   
>>>       
>> Now here's the problem, I think. The MTA logs the message as being 
>> delivered to Mailman (via the wrapper script 
>> $MAILMANDIR/mailman/bin/mailman), so from the MTA's point of view it's 
>> done. Now, as the sent message cannot be found under qfiles, and as none 
>> of the $MAILMANDIR/logs/* files is modified, it seems as if the message 
>> disappeared in a black hole. Is there no way to enable debugging in the 
>> wrapper script? It would show the first action of Mailman, I assume.
>>     
>
>
> There are at least two possibilities here.
>
> 1) The post was rejected (not held or discarded). A reject is not
> logged, but there should be an associated entry in Mailman's smtp log
> with a mailman generated message-id and 1 recipient for the reject
> message sent to the poster.
>   

There is none.

> 2) The wrapper is for a different Mailman installation with a different
> qfiles directory and probably no qrunners running and probably
> different log files too.
>   

I see no other installation; I have only one in /usr/local/mailman.

> The wrapper itself (I would expect it to be located at
> $MAILMANDIR/mail/mailman, not $MAILMANDIR/mailman/bin/mailman)

correct, I made a wrong assumption when I was typing. I doublechecked 
and the mailman wrapper is at $MAILMANDIR/mail/mailman.

>  has the
> path to the scripts/ directory compiled in and doesn't have any debug
> switches. It will invoke the scripts/post script and presumably this
> happens OK or it will return a failure status to the MTA which would
> be logged by the MTA.
>   

The logfile within the MTA shows:

11:26:48.08: middleman version 0.2 starting, pid 25427
11:26:48.16: channel: mailman
11:26:48.17: option file: IMTA_TABLE:mailman_option
11:26:48.17: Opening the channel option file
11:26:48.17: mtaOptionStart: succeeded
11:26:48.17: WRAPPER=/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
11:26:48.17: MAX_THREADS=5
11:26:48.17: mtaDequeueStart()
11:26:48.17: #1: process_message() callback
11:26:48.17: #1: build_operations() starting
11:26:48.17: #1:  first address: allloc5estatic-owner at lists.domain.com
11:26:48.17: #1:   localpart: allloc5estatic-owner
11:26:48.17: #1:    listname: allloc5estatic
11:26:48.17: #1:    command: owner
11:26:48.17: #1: build_operations() returning
11:26:48.17: #1: get_messagefile() starting
11:26:48.17: #1:  opening tmpfile
11:26:48.19: #1:  wrote tmpfile successfully
11:26:48.19: #1: get_messagefile() returning
11:26:48.19: #1: running wrapper for every recipient
11:26:48.19: #1:  seeking back to the beginning of the message
11:26:48.19: #1:  about to fork()
11:26:48.19: #1:   command completed successfully
11:26:48.19: #1: cleaning up
11:26:48.19: #1: mm_opers_free() starting
11:26:48.19: #1: mm_opers_free() returning
11:26:48.19: #1:   waiting child 25428
11:26:48.20: #1: dequeue finished
11:26:48.21: #1:   command completed successfully
11:26:48.21: #1: cleaning up
11:26:48.21: #1: mm_opers_free() starting
11:26:48.21: #1: mm_opers_free() returning
11:26:48.21: #1: dequeue finished
11:29:48.00: mtaDequeueStart() returned

> You can add debugging to the scripts/post script. If you look at this
> script, you will see that it already detects a missing or invalid list
> name from the wrapper and writes to stderr which is logged to both the
> post and error logs.
>
> You could add some more output, say by adding the last two lines of
>
>     inq = get_switchboard(mm_cfg.INQUEUE_DIR)
>     inq.enqueue(sys.stdin.read(),
>                 listname=listname,
>                 tolist=1, _plaintext=1)
>     print >> sys.stderr, 'Post for %s queued in %s' \
>                         % (listname, mm_cfg.INQUEUE_DIR)
>   

I have added the last two lines, but nothing is written to the post logfile.

> If you don't see this in the post and error logs, you are not looking
> at the right installation or (third possibility) the right log files.
> Look in mm_cfg.py/Defaults.py for the definition of LOG_DIR and
> anything else used in its definition.
>   

The mm_cfg.py does not define LOG_DIR. In 
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py it is defined as:

LOG_DIR         = os.path.join(VAR_PREFIX, 'logs')

where VAR_PREFIX is defined in the same file as:

VAR_PREFIX      = '/usr/local/mailman'


> This can be tricky. LOG_DIR is defined in Defaults.py in terms of
> VAR_PREFIX. If VAR_PREFIX is redefined in mm_cfg.py, this will not
> redefine LOG_DIR as LOG_DIR was already defined in Defaults.py in
> terms of the Defaults.py definition of VAR_PREFIX.
>   

I see; however in my case this seems to be not the problem, as mm_cfg.py 
does not define LOG_DIR nor VAR_PREFIX.

Now, I tested the following:

I became user mailman
mailman> cd /usr/local/mailman/scripts
mailman> ./post <listname>
<message input>
<ctrl-D>

and indeed something showed up in the locks logfile, as well as in the 
post logfile and in the bounce logfile (as the sender address was not 
defined, mailman could not authorize the message submissions, which 
ended in a bounce). So it seems that the calling program within the MTA 
gets a positive success status from mailman, but something is wrong 
during message submission. To repeat part of he logfile:

[...]
11:26:48.19: #1: running wrapper for every recipient
11:26:48.19: #1:  seeking back to the beginning of the message
11:26:48.19: #1:  about to fork()
11:26:48.19: #1:   command completed successfully
11:26:48.19: #1: cleaning up
11:26:48.19: #1: mm_opers_free() starting
11:26:48.19: #1: mm_opers_free() returning
11:26:48.19: #1:   waiting child 25428
11:26:48.20: #1: dequeue finished
11:26:48.21: #1:   command completed successfully
11:26:48.21: #1: cleaning up
[...]


/rolf



From shirishag75 at gmail.com  Tue May  1 14:55:19 2007
From: shirishag75 at gmail.com (shirish agarwal)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 18:25:19 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dates grouped by date while going through an
	archive of mailing list
Message-ID: <511f47f50705010555u332aab0dp147f3d6edf3a1afa@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
       When clicking on mailing list archive even with dates the resulting
list is a flat list & one never comes to know when a particular discussion
started or ended right there. Other lists system make this pretty much easy.
For e.g. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/2007-04/index.htmlshould
be easy to know what I mean. We have been using GNU Mailman
2.1.8 . Please lemme know if something like this is there in 2.1.9 or
something similar is in works at the HEAD. Cheers !
-- 
          Shirish Agarwal
  This work is licensed under the Creative Commons NonCommercial Sampling
Plus 1.0 License. To view a copy of this license, visit
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/nc-sampling+/1.0/

From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Tue May  1 16:28:56 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 09:28:56 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error? in accept_these_nonmembers Processing
Message-ID: <200705011428.l41ESuMc014634@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

I create new Mailman (2.1.9) lists via copying template files.
One of my template files has:

accept_these_nonmembers = ['user1 at example.com', 'user2 at example.com',
   'user3 at example.com  (Joe Bleaux)', 'user4 at example.com']

(I have split the line for easier readibility.)  When I create a new
list via

     /usr/sbin/newlist $listname
     config_list -i $1.config $listname

I get no complaints, and the administrator web interface shows the
four addresses with the parenthesized name after the third address.
I have not tested whether any of these addresses can post to the new
list.  But when I want to add another address to the list (or remove
an address) via the admin web interface, I get an error messsage about
an incorrect address.  When I remove the parenthesized name, the error
message is not produced.  If the parenthesized name is not valid, I
would expect an error message during the config_list command execution.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mcnutt at utk.edu  Tue May  1 16:54:31 2007
From: mcnutt at utk.edu (McNutt Jr, William R)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 10:54:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to Find Bogus User
In-Reply-To: <ba5cdc4b0704271058w570bb225s76f4f22f111a816b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0913EC48F2B05C4FBE4878BAFCABBFEC4056E6@KFSVS2.utk.tennessee.edu>

I've started to get an error message back from the monthly reminders.
The gateway is reporting that:

"Your message could not be delivered to:

dawn norris,University of Maine (The name was not found at the remote
site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.)"

Fair enough.  It's not an e-mail address, there's no reason why the
server SHOULD be able to deliver it.  But I can't find the bad entry.
Find_member for 'dawn,' 'dawn Norris,' and 'University of Maine' are all
coming back with nothing found. How do I locate this incorrect entry?

Bill

From jim at miller5.com  Tue May  1 18:04:19 2007
From: jim at miller5.com (Jim Miller)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 11:04:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminders and unsubscribed users
Message-ID: <009d01c78c0a$610b98a0$6601a8c0@aspen>

I am running mailman 2.1.9.cp2 and have an ongoing issue I can't find an
solution for.  There are a number of people who have unsubscribed to my
list, yet they continue to receive monthly password reminders.  A few months
ago I even disabled the password reminder for the list as a whole, and that
works for all the subscribed users, yet the old unsubscribed users still
continue to receive reminders!  I verified once again today that these users
are not subscribed.  They themselves have no access to the user admin stuff,
even with the password mailman just sent them and they receive no other
email traffic from the list, just the password reminders.
 
Any idea what is causing this, and how to fix the problem?  I am about to
just remove the password reminder cron entry, which I know disables
reminders for all list, unless someone has a clue what is going on here.  An
archive search shows no help for this issue, though it has been mentioned
before.
 
jim
 

From donald.teed at gmail.com  Tue May  1 18:58:30 2007
From: donald.teed at gmail.com (D G Teed)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 13:58:30 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Counting messages that went to postfix queue
Message-ID: <dd4da0390705010958w50d4639bwd49daf4fed34440f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

We're in the final tests of a pilot of mailman at our University.

Due to the previous problem with majordomo2 losing about 9% of
email (never sent to postfix, on same server) in the mail list,
we'd like to verify that the number of emails that were attempted to be
delivered equals the number from list_members command.

I've tried finding the message queue IDs which were used
and grep QueueID maillog | wc but this seems difficult
to do since some reappear again in the logs, which were initially
bounces.

I also tried pflogsumm and looked at those stats.  At first I thought
the message sizes and multiples of that message size going to
different domains would be a key, but it seems to be inaccurate.

I don't have any indications that anyone in our pilot list was lost,
but we just need a method to account for the reliability.

Regards,

--Donald

From rb at islandnet.com  Tue May  1 20:03:38 2007
From: rb at islandnet.com (Ron Brogden)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 11:03:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] global email address blocklist?
Message-ID: <200705011103.38282.rb@islandnet.com>

Hello.  Like a good portion of the Internet, I am running into issues with  
AOL users hitting the "spam" button in their AOL email client for legitimate 
list traffic.  I am wanting to stop these users from re-subscribing to any 
lists but as far as I can tell, Mailman does not currently have a global 
blocklist.

Looking at the source, I see the following on line 394 of "MailList.py":

self.ban_list = []

I am wondering if a possible solution here would be to initialize this value 
to include a list of banned email address, either via an included value from 
Defaults.py or by hardcoding the values into to the above array?

self.ban_list = [ 'clueless at aol.com', 'bad_gui_design at aol.com' ]

What I am unclear of is whether this means that every message has to be 
scanned through this list or whether it would only apply to subscribe 
requests.

Another potential spot would be in "AddMember()".  Perhaps just adding a new 
function to MailList.py which checks if the address is in a global array and 
raises an error if this is the case?

If anyone has already cracked this or if there is already an existing function 
to support this please point me at the FAQ or docs.

Cheers,

Ron

-- 
islandnet.com
http://www.islandnet.com
support at islandnet.com
ph: (250) 383-0096 fax: (250) 383-6698

From drew.tenenholz at isid.org  Tue May  1 20:43:15 2007
From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 14:43:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Retrieving list membership via email
Message-ID: <p06240839c25d3480a402@[192.168.209.104]>

Folks --

I'd just like a quick confirmation of Mailman (2.1.4, yikes!) behavior:

A message sent to listname-request at example.com with a body of "who" 
should return the list members. (FAQ 3.62)

However, my list has 'private_roster' set to 'List Admin Only', and 
when (from a list owner email address) I send "who admin_password", I 
get:

- Results:
     You are not allowed to retrieve the list membership.


Is this expected behavior?

-- Drew Tenenholz

From kwz-mm at commpartners.com  Tue May  1 21:56:17 2007
From: kwz-mm at commpartners.com (Karl Zander)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 15:56:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail --> MHonArc error
Message-ID: <web-3888308@commpartners.com>

  
I am trying to convert a list from the Pipermail archiver 
to MhonArc.

I can run /bin/arch --wipe listname successfully.

I get this error when generating the MhonArc archive with

/bin/arch listname

Pickling archive state into 
/data/mailman/archives/private/listname/pipermail.pck
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "./arch", line 202, in ?
     main()
   File "./arch", line 190, in main
     archiver.processUnixMailbox(fp, start, end)
   File "/data/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", 
line 576, in processUnixMailbox
     self.mhonarcProcessUnixMailbox(input, start, end)
   File "/data/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", 
line 706, in mhonarcProcessUnixMailbox
     status = mhonarch_process.close()
IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe


If I switch back to Pipermail it will run successfully.

It looks too that I miss  March and April 2007 archives 
when trying to convert to MHonArc, but Pipermail generates 
them.  Would this point to an problem in the .mbox file?

--Karl

From simon_schuh at ntm.org.pg  Wed May  2 00:33:59 2007
From: simon_schuh at ntm.org.pg (Simon Schuh)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 08:33:59 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail/Vpopmail
Message-ID: <4637C057.4030904@ntm.org.pg>

Hello,

I'm trying to install Mailman and have some problems.
If I try to send an email to the list(configuration),
qmail cannot deliver the mail and I get a "Sorry, no mailbox here by
that name."
I looked in the logs and qmail actually tries to find the local
mailman-testliste at lists.mydomain.tld, like I configured it in the
virtualdomains.
I think qmail doesn't check the mailman home which is /usr/local/mailman.
And I don't really know how qmail could find it.
I have the line "lists.mydomain.tld:mailman" in virtualdomains,
but how should qmail know where to find the mailman home directory?

Hope the question is not to stupid and somebody can help me.

Thanks,
Simon Schuh


From mkabot at soarol.com  Wed May  2 01:26:30 2007
From: mkabot at soarol.com (Michael Kabot)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 19:26:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail/Vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <4637C057.4030904@ntm.org.pg>
Message-ID: <000001c78c48$26ca6200$650aa8c0@office>


Simon,

The Qmail files can usually be found in /var/qmail/mailnames.  There should
be a directory for each domain. Within these directories Qmail uses
.qmail-<alias> filenames for configuration so they are easily missed.  Make
sure to use 'ls -al' to see them.

Check to see if Mailman has created the proper .files.  There should be
quite a few for each list you have created.

  
In Service,
 
Michael Kabot
President - SOAR
  Scouting Online
    Affordable & Reliable
mkabot at soarol.com
585-388-0211

www.soarol.com 
 
 


| -----Original Message-----
| From: mailman-users-bounces+mkabot=soarol.com at python.org 
| [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+mkabot=soarol.com at python.org] 
| On Behalf Of Simon Schuh
| Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 6:34 PM
| To: mailman-users at python.org
| Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail/Vpopmail
| 
| 
| Hello,
| 
| I'm trying to install Mailman and have some problems.
| If I try to send an email to the list(configuration),
| qmail cannot deliver the mail and I get a "Sorry, no mailbox 
| here by that name." I looked in the logs and qmail actually 
| tries to find the local mailman-testliste at lists.mydomain.tld, 
| like I configured it in the virtualdomains. I think qmail 
| doesn't check the mailman home which is /usr/local/mailman. 
| And I don't really know how qmail could find it. I have the 
| line "lists.mydomain.tld:mailman" in virtualdomains, but how 
| should qmail know where to find the mailman home directory?
| 
| Hope the question is not to stupid and somebody can help me.
| 
| Thanks,
| Simon Schuh
| 
| ------------------------------------------------------
| Mailman-Users mailing list
| Mailman-Users at python.org 
| http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
| Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
| Searchable Archives: 
| http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
| Unsubscribe: 
| http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mkabot%40
soarol.com

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From shirishag75 at gmail.com  Wed May  2 01:52:46 2007
From: shirishag75 at gmail.com (shirish agarwal)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 05:22:46 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sorry for the link not getting right
Message-ID: <511f47f50705011652s7924e249wbe92109d26153eb4@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
      When clicking on mailing list archive even with dates the resulting
list is a flat list & one never comes to know when a particular discussion
started or ended right there. Other lists system make this pretty much easy.
For e.g. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/2007-04/index.html<http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/2007-04/index.htmlshould>should
<http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/2007-04/index.htmlshould>
be easy to know what I mean. They use something called MHonArc
We have been using GNU Mailman 2.1.8 .
Please lemme know if something like this is there in 2.1.9 or
something similar is in works at the HEAD. Cheers !
--

-- 
          Shirish Agarwal
  This work is licensed under the Creative Commons NonCommercial Sampling
Plus 1.0 License. To view a copy of this license, visit
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/nc-sampling+/1.0/

From msapiro at value.net  Wed May  2 02:47:37 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 17:47:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dates grouped by date while going through
	anarchive of mailing list
In-Reply-To: <511f47f50705010555u332aab0dp147f3d6edf3a1afa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070501174737026599ea75ee@msapiro>

shirish agarwal wrote:

>       When clicking on mailing list archive even with dates the resulting
>list is a flat list & one never comes to know when a particular discussion
>started or ended right there. Other lists system make this pretty much easy.
>For e.g. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/2007-04/index.html should
>be easy to know what I mean.


But that's a Mhonarc archive, not a pipermail archive.


>We have been using GNU Mailman
>2.1.8 . Please lemme know if something like this is there in 2.1.9 or
>something similar is in works at the HEAD. Cheers !


There is no current work on changing pipermail, but you can always use
Mhonarc as your Mailman archiver. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.004.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed May  2 03:28:04 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 18:28:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error? in accept_these_nonmembers Processing
In-Reply-To: <200705011428.l41ESuMc014634@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC176020070501182804021899ea759e@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:

>I create new Mailman (2.1.9) lists via copying template files.
>One of my template files has:
>
>accept_these_nonmembers = ['user1 at example.com', 'user2 at example.com',
>   'user3 at example.com  (Joe Bleaux)', 'user4 at example.com']


The *_these_nonmembers lists are lists of plain email addresses without
comments or real names or regexps (beginning with ^) that match email
addresses.


>(I have split the line for easier readibility.)


Actually, config_list input is Python, and in Python it is perfectly
acceptable to break a list like the above across lines. New-lines
outside of quoted strings are ignored if they occur inside parens (),
brackets [] or braces {}.


>When I create a new
>list via
>
>     /usr/sbin/newlist $listname
>     config_list -i $1.config $listname
>
>I get no complaints, and the administrator web interface shows the
>four addresses with the parenthesized name after the third address.
>I have not tested whether any of these addresses can post to the new
>list.


With the above, user3 at example.com could not post (because the code
would test whether 'user3 at example.com' is equal to 'user3 at example.com 
(Joe Bleaux)') but the others could.


>But when I want to add another address to the list (or remove
>an address) via the admin web interface, I get an error messsage about
>an incorrect address.  When I remove the parenthesized name, the error
>message is not produced.  If the parenthesized name is not valid, I
>would expect an error message during the config_list command execution.


It's not valid and your expectation is reasonable, but this isn't what
happens (I'm not saying it can't/won't be fixed).

Here's a section of the code that would normally validate the supplied
value.

        if wtype in (mm_cfg.EmailList, mm_cfg.EmailListEx):
            # BAW: value might already be a list, if this is coming from
            # config_list input.  Sigh.
            if isinstance(val, ListType):
                return val

In other words, if accept_these_nonmembers (or any attribute which is a
list of email addresses or a list of email addresses and regexps)
comes from the GUI page, it is the contents of a text box which is a
string and it is validated and transformed to a list, but if it is
already a list, it is assumed to be from input to config_list and the
list is just assigned to the attribute without validatating its
contents.

If you want to see this fixed, the best next step is to report it in
the bug tracker at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=100103>. (Since
I've already done the analysis, I'll probably fix it, but get it in
the tracker anyway.)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed May  2 03:45:57 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 18:45:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to Find Bogus User
In-Reply-To: <0913EC48F2B05C4FBE4878BAFCABBFEC4056E6@KFSVS2.utk.tennessee.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020070501184557028199ea7612@msapiro>

McNutt Jr, William R wrote:

>I've started to get an error message back from the monthly reminders.
>The gateway is reporting that:
>
>"Your message could not be delivered to:
>
>dawn norris,University of Maine (The name was not found at the remote
>site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.)"
>
>Fair enough.  It's not an e-mail address, there's no reason why the
>server SHOULD be able to deliver it.  But I can't find the bad entry.
>Find_member for 'dawn,' 'dawn Norris,' and 'University of Maine' are all
>coming back with nothing found. How do I locate this incorrect entry?


Presumably the address on the list is OK, but a .forward or other
aliasing mechanism downstream of Mailman is converting it.

Also, it seems you are not getting the message body returned since it
contains the address to which the reminder was sent.

If you are getting Received: headers back, you might be able to narrow
it down from the domain of the first server it is sent to.

If you set

VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes

in mm_cfg.py, the reminders will be sent with envelope from
mailman-bounces+user=example.net at example.com where user=example.net
comes from the recipients user at example.net member address and
example.com is your domain. The 'bounce' should come back to the
envelope address and enable you to see the user's address.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed May  2 04:35:20 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 19:35:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminders and unsubscribed users
In-Reply-To: <009d01c78c0a$610b98a0$6601a8c0@aspen>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705011935200343dcb8a54b@msapiro>

Jim Miller wrote:

>I am running mailman 2.1.9.cp2 and have an ongoing issue I can't find an
>solution for.  There are a number of people who have unsubscribed to my
>list, yet they continue to receive monthly password reminders.  A few months
>ago I even disabled the password reminder for the list as a whole, and that
>works for all the subscribed users, yet the old unsubscribed users still
>continue to receive reminders!  I verified once again today that these users
>are not subscribed.  They themselves have no access to the user admin stuff,
>even with the password mailman just sent them and they receive no other
>email traffic from the list, just the password reminders.
> 
>Any idea what is causing this, and how to fix the problem?  I am about to
>just remove the password reminder cron entry, which I know disables
>reminders for all list, unless someone has a clue what is going on here.  An
>archive search shows no help for this issue, though it has been mentioned
>before.


There have been past reports of this, and the ones that haven't been
resolved are from cPanel installations.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

It's even worse than just unsubscribed members still getting reminders.
See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-February/055638.html>
for a report of users receiving reminders from a deleted list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed May  2 04:50:36 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 19:50:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Counting messages that went to postfix queue
In-Reply-To: <dd4da0390705010958w50d4639bwd49daf4fed34440f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705011950360531dcb8a617@msapiro>

D G Teed wrote:
>
>Due to the previous problem with majordomo2 losing about 9% of
>email (never sent to postfix, on same server) in the mail list,
>we'd like to verify that the number of emails that were attempted to be
>delivered equals the number from list_members command.


Look at the entry in Mailman's smtp log which will tell you how man
total recipients there wore for each sent message.


>I've tried finding the message queue IDs which were used
>and grep QueueID maillog | wc but this seems difficult
>to do since some reappear again in the logs, which were initially
>bounces.


If you mean Message-Id:, that's in the smtp log entry. If you mean the
MTA's IDs, they would not normally be found anywhere in Mailman's
logs, and there could be more than one for a single post because a
single post may or may not be sent in a single smtp transaction
depending on Mailman settings and number of recipients.


>I also tried pflogsumm and looked at those stats.  At first I thought
>the message sizes and multiples of that message size going to
>different domains would be a key, but it seems to be inaccurate.
>
>I don't have any indications that anyone in our pilot list was lost,
>but we just need a method to account for the reliability.


If you want to know what Mailman thinks, if there are no entries in
Mailman's smtp-failure log, the number of recips in the smtp log entry
is the number of recipients given to the MTA. You can believe this
number or not, but I know of no case in which it is wrong.

If you want to know what the MTA did with these recipients and whether
or not it lost any, that is not a Mailman question.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From simon_schuh at ntm.org.pg  Wed May  2 04:57:09 2007
From: simon_schuh at ntm.org.pg (Simon Schuh)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 12:57:09 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail/Vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <000001c78c48$26ca6200$650aa8c0@office>
References: <000001c78c48$26ca6200$650aa8c0@office>
Message-ID: <4637FE05.6060905@ntm.org.pg>

My Qmail files are in /home/vpopmail/domains, but there are no files for 
Mailman.
I tried to create them manually, but probably did that wrong.
Where should they be?

Simon Schuh



Michael Kabot schrieb:
> Simon,
>
> The Qmail files can usually be found in /var/qmail/mailnames.  There should
> be a directory for each domain. Within these directories Qmail uses
> .qmail-<alias> filenames for configuration so they are easily missed.  Make
> sure to use 'ls -al' to see them.
>
> Check to see if Mailman has created the proper .files.  There should be
> quite a few for each list you have created.
>
>   
> In Service,
>  
> Michael Kabot
> President - SOAR
>   Scouting Online
>     Affordable & Reliable
> mkabot at soarol.com
> 585-388-0211
>
> www.soarol.com 
>  


From mkabot at soarol.com  Wed May  2 05:06:30 2007
From: mkabot at soarol.com (Michael Kabot)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 23:06:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail/Vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <4637FE05.6060905@ntm.org.pg>
Message-ID: <000201c78c66$e2935e10$650aa8c0@office>


Can you see an .qmail-<alias> files under the /var/vpopmail/domains
diretory?

Are you using Plesk, Cpanel, or any type of server/domain control panel?

If so, create an email alias through the control panel for one of your
domains <domain.tld>.

Check to see if the .qmail-<alias> file shows up in
/var/vpopmail/domains/<domain.tld>.

If it does not, that is not where Qmail configuration files are stored.

Unfortunately, I am not familiar with Vpopmail or how it interfaces with
Qmail.

  
In Service,
 
Michael Kabot
President - SOAR
  Scouting Online
    Affordable & Reliable
mkabot at soarol.com
585-388-0211

www.soarol.com 
 
 


| -----Original Message-----
| From: mailman-users-bounces+mkabot=soarol.com at python.org 
| [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+mkabot=soarol.com at python.org] 
| On Behalf Of Simon Schuh
| Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 10:57 PM
| To: mailman-users at python.org
| Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail/Vpopmail
| 
| 
| My Qmail files are in /home/vpopmail/domains, but there are 
| no files for 
| Mailman.
| I tried to create them manually, but probably did that wrong. 
| Where should they be?
| 
| Simon Schuh
| 
| 
| 
| Michael Kabot schrieb:
| > Simon,
| >
| > The Qmail files can usually be found in 
| /var/qmail/mailnames.  There 
| > should be a directory for each domain. Within these 
| directories Qmail 
| > uses .qmail-<alias> filenames for configuration so they are easily 
| > missed.  Make sure to use 'ls -al' to see them.
| >
| > Check to see if Mailman has created the proper .files.  
| There should 
| > be quite a few for each list you have created.
| >
| >   
| > In Service,
| >  
| > Michael Kabot
| > President - SOAR
| >   Scouting Online
| >     Affordable & Reliable
| > mkabot at soarol.com
| > 585-388-0211
| >
| > www.soarol.com
| >  
| 
| ------------------------------------------------------
| Mailman-Users mailing list
| Mailman-Users at python.org
| http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
| Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
| Searchable Archives: 
| http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
| Unsubscribe: 
| http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mkabot%40
soarol.com

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From msapiro at value.net  Wed May  2 05:32:39 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 20:32:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Troubleshooting posting of a message
In-Reply-To: <46370E16.9070402@sonnection.nl>
Message-ID: <PC17602007050120323909536d676840@msapiro>

Rolf E. Sonneveld wrote:
>
>Now, I tested the following:
>
>I became user mailman
>mailman> cd /usr/local/mailman/scripts
>mailman> ./post <listname>
><message input>
><ctrl-D>
>
>and indeed something showed up in the locks logfile, as well as in the 
>post logfile and in the bounce logfile (as the sender address was not 
>defined, mailman could not authorize the message submissions, which 
>ended in a bounce). So it seems that the calling program within the MTA 
>gets a positive success status from mailman, but something is wrong 
>during message submission. To repeat part of he logfile:
>
>[...]
>11:26:48.19: #1: running wrapper for every recipient
>11:26:48.19: #1:  seeking back to the beginning of the message
>11:26:48.19: #1:  about to fork()
>11:26:48.19: #1:   command completed successfully
>11:26:48.19: #1: cleaning up
>11:26:48.19: #1: mm_opers_free() starting
>11:26:48.19: #1: mm_opers_free() returning
>11:26:48.19: #1:   waiting child 25428
>11:26:48.20: #1: dequeue finished
>11:26:48.21: #1:   command completed successfully
>11:26:48.21: #1: cleaning up
>[...]


I see two possibilities.

1) the wrapper is failing and this fact is not communicated back to the
MTA. Possibly there is a group mismatch or some other problem, but
these result in stderr output from the wrapper and a non-zero exit
status, both of which should be seen by the MTA.

2) the wrapper's precompiled path to the scripts directory is to
something other than /usr/local/mailman/scripts.

It is not clear to me from your initial posts whether this issue
involves just one list or all lists and whether things this list (or
all lists) ever worked.

In any case, you could try your test similarly to the above, but using
the wrapper as in

cd /usr/local/mailman/mail      (or whatever the correct directory is)
./mailman post <listname>
<message input>
<ctrl-D>

The first attempt will probably result in a group mismatch error before
it reads any message input. This will at least tell you what group it
is expecting which may help if there is really a group mismatch with
the MTA.

Then if you can try it again as the expected group, you can see if it
actually posts the message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed May  2 05:58:14 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 20:58:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] global email address blocklist?
In-Reply-To: <200705011103.38282.rb@islandnet.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007050120581400466d67649c@msapiro>

Ron Brogden wrote:
>
>Looking at the source, I see the following on line 394 of "MailList.py":
>
>self.ban_list = []
>
>I am wondering if a possible solution here would be to initialize this value 
>to include a list of banned email address, either via an included value from 
>Defaults.py or by hardcoding the values into to the above array?
>
>self.ban_list = [ 'clueless at aol.com', 'bad_gui_design at aol.com' ]


You can do either. The 'standard' way to do it would be to define

DEFAULT_BAN_LIST = []

in Defaults.py (actually Defaults.py.in for a patch) and then put your
list

DEFAULT_BAN_LIST =['clueless at aol.com',
'bad_gui_design at aol.com']

in mm_cfg.py and put

        self.ban_list = mm_cfg.DEFAULT_BAN_LIST

in MailList.py.


>What I am unclear of is whether this means that every message has to be 
>scanned through this list or whether it would only apply to subscribe 
>requests.


It only applies to subscription requests, and since 2.1.7, invitations,
subscription confirmations and changes of address.

However, the above changes will only initialize the ban_list for new
lists. You will still need to use config_list or whatever to update
existing lists.


>Another potential spot would be in "AddMember()".  Perhaps just adding a new 
>function to MailList.py which checks if the address is in a global array and 
>raises an error if this is the case?


Yes. This would have the addvantage of not requiring the various list's
ban_list to be updated with every change and seems a better solution
for your purpose.

I suggest however that the place to make this change is not
AddMember(), but GetBannedPattern().

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed May  2 06:07:51 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 21:07:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Retrieving list membership via email
In-Reply-To: <p06240839c25d3480a402@[192.168.209.104]>
Message-ID: <PC176020070501210751051523335db6@msapiro>

Drew Tenenholz wrote:
>
>I'd just like a quick confirmation of Mailman (2.1.4, yikes!) behavior:
>
>A message sent to listname-request at example.com with a body of "who" 
>should return the list members. (FAQ 3.62)
>
>However, my list has 'private_roster' set to 'List Admin Only', and 
>when (from a list owner email address) I send "who admin_password", I 
>get:
>
>- Results:
>     You are not allowed to retrieve the list membership.
>
>
>Is this expected behavior?


Assuming 'admin_password' above is the actual list admin or moderator
password and not the user password of the admin, then no, it is not
the expected behavior. If it is the user password of the admin, then
it is the expected behavior.

The password needs to be the list's admin or moderator password. The
address you send the 'who' from and to which the results will be
returned can be any address.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed May  2 06:04:28 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 23:04:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dates grouped by date while going through an
 archive of mailing list
In-Reply-To: <511f47f50705010555u332aab0dp147f3d6edf3a1afa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <511f47f50705010555u332aab0dp147f3d6edf3a1afa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c25dbdfb68e1@[10.0.1.199]>

On 5/1/07, shirish agarwal wrote:

>        When clicking on mailing list archive even with dates the resulting
>  list is a flat list & one never comes to know when a particular discussion
>  started or ended right there. Other lists system make this pretty much easy.
>  For e.g. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/2007-04/index.html
>  should be easy to know what I mean. We have been using GNU Mailman
>  2.1.8 . Please lemme know if something like this is there in 2.1.9 or
>  something similar is in works at the HEAD. Cheers !

There is work planned on the archiving system for 2.2, but nothing 
that I know of for 2.1.x.  You could always use a different archiver, 
such as mhonarc -- the details on how to do this should be covered in 
the documentation and the FAQ Wizard.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed May  2 06:07:49 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 23:07:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error? in accept_these_nonmembers Processing
In-Reply-To: <200705011428.l41ESuMc014634@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
References: <200705011428.l41ESuMc014634@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <p06240802c25dbe517d00@[10.0.1.199]>

On 5/1/07, Barry Finkel wrote:

>  I get no complaints, and the administrator web interface shows the
>  four addresses with the parenthesized name after the third address.
>  I have not tested whether any of these addresses can post to the new
>  list.  But when I want to add another address to the list (or remove
>  an address) via the admin web interface, I get an error messsage about
>  an incorrect address.  When I remove the parenthesized name, the error
>  message is not produced.  If the parenthesized name is not valid, I
>  would expect an error message during the config_list command execution.

Yeah, I've seen some weirdness myself in areas like this.

The one that hit me was a service provider role account with an 
unusual (but legal) character in the name tried to post to one of our 
internal group lists, and I approved that message and also clicked 
the box to have Mailman automatically add that address to the 
whitelist.  That worked, no problem.

However, when I later went to add more addresses to the whitelist, 
there was nothing I could to get anything accepted -- until I deleted 
this unusual address.  After that, everything worked fine.  But I 
also couldn't re-add this unusual address.


There's definitely some bugs in the code to handle the whitelist 
addresses.  I need to file my own bug report on this subject on 
SourceForge, and I would encourage you to do the same.

Maybe then we could get Tokio or Mark to actually find & fix this one.  ;)

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed May  2 06:09:39 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 23:09:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to Find Bogus User
In-Reply-To: <0913EC48F2B05C4FBE4878BAFCABBFEC4056E6@KFSVS2.utk.tennessee.edu>
References: <0913EC48F2B05C4FBE4878BAFCABBFEC4056E6@KFSVS2.utk.tennessee.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240803c25dbf23ae53@[10.0.1.199]>

On 5/1/07, McNutt Jr, William R wrote:

>  Fair enough.  It's not an e-mail address, there's no reason why the
>  server SHOULD be able to deliver it.  But I can't find the bad entry.
>  Find_member for 'dawn,' 'dawn Norris,' and 'University of Maine' are all
>  coming back with nothing found. How do I locate this incorrect entry?

Good question.  If find_member isn't finding it, that tells me that 
there's some other illegal characters in the address that aren't 
visible, or that maybe the address is something totally different 
inside your system and that the broken aliasing is happening 
somewhere else.

Other than doing a "dumpdb" of all the lists and doing some visual 
searching, I'm not sure that I've got an easy answer for you.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed May  2 06:19:22 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 23:19:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Counting messages that went to postfix queue
In-Reply-To: <dd4da0390705010958w50d4639bwd49daf4fed34440f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd4da0390705010958w50d4639bwd49daf4fed34440f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240805c25dc056f645@[10.0.1.199]>

On 5/1/07, D G Teed wrote:

>  I've tried finding the message queue IDs which were used
>  and grep QueueID maillog | wc but this seems difficult
>  to do since some reappear again in the logs, which were initially
>  bounces.

Mailman will give you the message-id, the list name, and the number 
of recipients it was sent to.  However, this won't help you for 
digest recipients, since Mailman will have to generate a different 
and totally unique message-id for that.  In addition, it will use the 
same message-id on outbound as was used on inbound, so unless you 
have different copies of your MTA running on different ports and 
sending their logs to different locations, you're going to get a mix 
of both inbound and outbound activity in your log files.  This will 
make it more difficult to track down what happened when.

Now, postfix will give you a one-to-many mapping of the message-id 
and the queue-ids, and then you can track the status of the 
individual queue-ids.

>  I also tried pflogsumm and looked at those stats.  At first I thought
>  the message sizes and multiples of that message size going to
>  different domains would be a key, but it seems to be inaccurate.

Speaking as the author of the "mmdsr" script, and as someone who has 
hacked around with the pflogsumm script, I can tell you that this is 
a process that is harder to do than most people would give credit for.

Beyond that, I'm not sure I can give you any specific advice.  I've 
been looking at installing Splunk on the python.org machines so that 
we can more easily track down what happened when to which mail 
messages, but right now it doesn't appear to know anything about 
Mailman log format.  I don't mind teaching it about that kind of 
stuff, but that does mean that we're that much further away from 
having any kind of short-term solution for this problem.

>  I don't have any indications that anyone in our pilot list was lost,
>  but we just need a method to account for the reliability.

Mailman doesn't currently have much for you in this area.  We know 
that this is an area of weakness, and are planning on fixing this in 
upcoming versions.  However, we do not otherwise have a whole lot of 
details as to what will be going on when.

If you have specific requirements, I would urge you to join the 
discussions on this topic in the Mailman Wiki pages.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed May  2 06:10:43 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 23:10:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminders and unsubscribed users
In-Reply-To: <009d01c78c0a$610b98a0$6601a8c0@aspen>
References: <009d01c78c0a$610b98a0$6601a8c0@aspen>
Message-ID: <p06240804c25dbf87c5a3@[10.0.1.199]>

On 5/1/07, Jim Miller wrote:

>  I am running mailman 2.1.9.cp2 and have an ongoing issue I can't find an
>  solution for.

First off, this is a cPanel version.  See FAQ 6.11.

>  Any idea what is causing this, and how to fix the problem?  I am about to
>  just remove the password reminder cron entry, which I know disables
>  reminders for all list, unless someone has a clue what is going on here.  An
>  archive search shows no help for this issue, though it has been mentioned
>  before.

I'm guessing you have more than one copy of Mailman installed, and 
that it's the other version which is sending out the notices.  Talk 
to your service provider to find out for sure.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From msapiro at value.net  Wed May  2 06:44:30 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 21:44:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman with remote smtp server
In-Reply-To: <4636DBE6.6030107@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602007050121443009842a821cd6@msapiro>

Meenal Pant wrote:

>I want to set up mailman to use a remote smtp server. How to achieve
>this ? I am having trouble understanding how to set up list aliases in
>/etc/alias  in particular?


To use a remote SMTP server for outgoing mail, simply set SMTPHOST and
maybe SMTPPORT in mm_cfg.py. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.072.htp>.

To use a remote server for incoming mail to Mailman is much more
complex. A search of the archives of this list for "fetchmail" will
turn up some info
(<http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org++inurl%3Amailman-users++fetchmail>).

Depending on how remote the server is, it may be possible to use NFS to
give the remote server access to the mail wrapper on the Mailman host
which can be another way to do it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mymailmanlist at gmail.com  Wed May  2 06:59:09 2007
From: mymailmanlist at gmail.com (Me Myself)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 21:59:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New to list - Have cpanel questions
Message-ID: <c607a5e60705012159k5cb2a6acje06f6e4816e26065@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, I'm new to the list.  Am about to move a Mailman list to a new server
that uses cpanel.  I understand there is a slightly different version used
by cpanel.  Any tips for making the move?  Any potential problems I should
be aware of?   If anyone has how-to instructions I'd be grateful.  Thanks in
advance for any advice/assistance.

From mymailmanlist at gmail.com  Wed May  2 08:02:46 2007
From: mymailmanlist at gmail.com (Me Myself)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 23:02:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Transferring archives question
Message-ID: <c607a5e60705012302i39c52800y23c4b8c29c9b1065@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a way to transfer list archives from one server to another without
needing root access?  Thanks in advance.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed May  2 08:13:14 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 01:13:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Transferring archives question
In-Reply-To: <c607a5e60705012302i39c52800y23c4b8c29c9b1065@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c607a5e60705012302i39c52800y23c4b8c29c9b1065@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c25ddc347e3e@[10.0.1.199]>

On 5/1/07, Me Myself wrote:

>  Is there a way to transfer list archives from one server to another without
>  needing root access?

Not unless there are even more features that cPanel has added and 
which we do not know about.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From simon_schuh at ntm.org.pg  Wed May  2 09:11:49 2007
From: simon_schuh at ntm.org.pg (Simon Schuh)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 17:11:49 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail/Vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <000201c78c66$e2935e10$650aa8c0@office>
References: <000201c78c66$e2935e10$650aa8c0@office>
Message-ID: <463839B5.3060202@ntm.org.pg>

I'm using ServerAdmin24, it's developed by the German ISP Strato.
The normal e-mail functions work fine.

In  /var/qmail/control/virtualdomains there is one entry for every domain.
Like: mydomain.tld:mydomain.tld
There Mailman added one line: lists.mydomain.tld:mailman

In /home/vpopmail/domains there is a directory for every domain.
Like: /home/vpopmail/domains/mydomain.tld/
In there are .qmail files for all defined adresses.

Mailman didn't create any files there.
Can I tell Mailman where to create the files or how I'm doing this?



Michael Kabot schrieb:
> Can you see an .qmail-<alias> files under the /var/vpopmail/domains
> diretory?
>
> Are you using Plesk, Cpanel, or any type of server/domain control panel?
>
> If so, create an email alias through the control panel for one of your
> domains <domain.tld>.
>
> Check to see if the .qmail-<alias> file shows up in
> /var/vpopmail/domains/<domain.tld>.
>
> If it does not, that is not where Qmail configuration files are stored.
>
> Unfortunately, I am not familiar with Vpopmail or how it interfaces with
> Qmail.
>
>
> In Service,
>
> Michael Kabot
> President - SOAR
> Scouting Online
> Affordable & Reliable
> mkabot at soarol.com
> 585-388-0211
>
> www.soarol.com
>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed May  2 09:24:47 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 02:24:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail/Vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <463839B5.3060202@ntm.org.pg>
References: <000201c78c66$e2935e10$650aa8c0@office>
	<463839B5.3060202@ntm.org.pg>
Message-ID: <p06240801c25decba5ddb@[10.0.1.199]>

On 5/2/07, Simon Schuh wrote:

>  I'm using ServerAdmin24, it's developed by the German ISP Strato.

In which case, you need to ask your questions of them.

If you didn't install the software yourself, then you need to ask the 
people who did.

>  Can I tell Mailman where to create the files or how I'm doing this?

All I know is that we have some documentation on integrating Mailman 
with qmail, including the page at 
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/qmail-issues.html>, but there 
may be others.

However, if you didn't install Mailman yourself, then there may have 
been some things that were not done, or perhaps were done 
differently, and you need to talk to the people who installed it for 
you.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From simon_schuh at ntm.org.pg  Wed May  2 10:45:53 2007
From: simon_schuh at ntm.org.pg (Simon Schuh)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 18:45:53 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail/Vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c25decba5ddb@[10.0.1.199]>
References: <000201c78c66$e2935e10$650aa8c0@office>
	<463839B5.3060202@ntm.org.pg> <p06240801c25decba5ddb@[10.0.1.199]>
Message-ID: <46384FC1.10506@ntm.org.pg>

Hi Brad,

>>  I'm using ServerAdmin24, it's developed by the German ISP Strato.
>
> In which case, you need to ask your questions of them.
>
> If you didn't install the software yourself, then you need to ask the 
> people who did.
>
I didn't install it. It was a ready-to-run server. But why should I ask 
them how to configure Mailman?
Sorry, I don't understand that connection.
>
> All I know is that we have some documentation on integrating Mailman 
> with qmail, including the page at 
> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/qmail-issues.html>, but there may 
> be others.
>
> However, if you didn't install Mailman yourself, then there may have 
> been some things that were not done, or perhaps were done differently, 
> and you need to talk to the people who installed it for you.
>

Nobody installed Mailman. This is what I'm trying right now. (Like I 
wrote before)
I followed the official Mailman documentation as far as I could and I 
read the site about qmail, which you mentioned, several times.
But not everybody has the same intelligence and knowledge, at least I 
couldn't get Mailman to work.
I read some other websites, too. If you want to know, here are a few:
http://www.flounder.net/qmail/qmail-howto.html 
http://www.hesketh.com/publications/mailman_made_easy.html 
http://www.inter7.com/?page=vpopmail
http://www.kroon.co.za/howto.php?howto=qmail_mailman 
http://www.lifewithqmail.org/lwq.html 
http://nav.bandersnatch.org/clues/qmail-vpopmail-mailman.html
And I also read in the achieves of different Mailingslists. In 
Mailman-Users I actually found some entries concerning my problem.
But my Mailman still doesn't work, so I thought I want to try to ask you 
guys and there are actually people you tried to help me.
But if you think, I'm wrong here, tell me and I will not bother you any 
more.

Simon Schuh


From mkabot at soarol.com  Wed May  2 15:10:31 2007
From: mkabot at soarol.com (Michael Kabot)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 09:10:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail/Vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <463839B5.3060202@ntm.org.pg>
Message-ID: <000601c78cbb$44c08870$650aa8c0@office>


Simon,

Ok... Sounds like you have your problem defined.
- Mailman is interacting with Qmail fine
- Vpopmail has move the "mailnames" directory into its own directory
structure
- Qmail seems to know this, but Mailman does not

Just for a sanity check
- As root run Mailman's bin/check_perms

I'm at the end of my experience level.

Can anyone else on the list jump in?

  
In Service,
 
Michael Kabot
President - SOAR
  Scouting Online
    Affordable & Reliable
mkabot at soarol.com
585-388-0211

www.soarol.com 
 
 


| -----Original Message-----
| From: Simon Schuh [mailto:simon_schuh at ntm.org.pg] 
| Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 3:12 AM
| To: mailman-users at python.org
| Cc: mkabot at soarol.com
| Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail/Vpopmail
| 
| 
| I'm using ServerAdmin24, it's developed by the German ISP 
| Strato. The normal e-mail functions work fine.
| 
| In  /var/qmail/control/virtualdomains there is one entry for 
| every domain.
| Like: mydomain.tld:mydomain.tld
| There Mailman added one line: lists.mydomain.tld:mailman
| 
| In /home/vpopmail/domains there is a directory for every domain.
| Like: /home/vpopmail/domains/mydomain.tld/
| In there are .qmail files for all defined adresses.
| 
| Mailman didn't create any files there.
| Can I tell Mailman where to create the files or how I'm doing this?
| 
| 
| 
| Michael Kabot schrieb:
| > Can you see an .qmail-<alias> files under the /var/vpopmail/domains 
| > diretory?
| >
| > Are you using Plesk, Cpanel, or any type of server/domain control 
| > panel?
| >
| > If so, create an email alias through the control panel for 
| one of your 
| > domains <domain.tld>.
| >
| > Check to see if the .qmail-<alias> file shows up in 
| > /var/vpopmail/domains/<domain.tld>.
| >
| > If it does not, that is not where Qmail configuration files are 
| > stored.
| >
| > Unfortunately, I am not familiar with Vpopmail or how it interfaces 
| > with Qmail.
| >
| >
| > In Service,
| >
| > Michael Kabot
| > President - SOAR
| > Scouting Online
| > Affordable & Reliable
| > mkabot at soarol.com
| > 585-388-0211
| >
| > www.soarol.com
| >
| 


From jim at miller5.com  Wed May  2 17:25:41 2007
From: jim at miller5.com (Jim Miller)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 10:25:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminders and unsubscribed users
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705011935200343dcb8a54b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <005a01c78cce$255445e0$6601a8c0@aspen>

Thanks for the reply Mark.  I do have a ticket opened with cpanel.  I was
hoping that I might get some insight on this issue here as well, since I did
see some old inquiries about this same problem in the archives, and it was
not related to cpanel installs.  I did not see resolution to any of those
older archive issues.  I have no idea how the password reminder script is
coming up with these old/deleted users to send them reminders, they simply
do not seem to even exist anywhere!  For now, I have just removed the
reminder script from being called by cron, seems brute force may be the only
solution!

jim 

-----Original Message-----
From: miller5 at host.miller5.org [mailto:miller5 at host.miller5.org] On Behalf
Of Mark Sapiro
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 9:35 PM
To: Jim Miller; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] password reminders and unsubscribed users

Jim Miller wrote:

>I am running mailman 2.1.9.cp2 and have an ongoing issue I can't find 
>an solution for.  There are a number of people who have unsubscribed to 
>my list, yet they continue to receive monthly password reminders.  A 
>few months ago I even disabled the password reminder for the list as a 
>whole, and that works for all the subscribed users, yet the old 
>unsubscribed users still continue to receive reminders!  I verified 
>once again today that these users are not subscribed.  They themselves 
>have no access to the user admin stuff, even with the password mailman 
>just sent them and they receive no other email traffic from the list, just
the password reminders.
> 
>Any idea what is causing this, and how to fix the problem?  I am about 
>to just remove the password reminder cron entry, which I know disables 
>reminders for all list, unless someone has a clue what is going on 
>here.  An archive search shows no help for this issue, though it has 
>been mentioned before.


There have been past reports of this, and the ones that haven't been
resolved are from cPanel installations.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

It's even worse than just unsubscribed members still getting reminders.
See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-February/055638.html>
for a report of users receiving reminders from a deleted list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Wed May  2 17:38:52 2007
From: mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Meenal Pant)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 10:38:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman with remote smtp server
In-Reply-To: <dd4da0390705011736t6ccd7daav57e6e3a1bc804f89@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4636DBE6.6030107@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
	<dd4da0390705011736t6ccd7daav57e6e3a1bc804f89@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4638B08C.3060901@ncsa.uiuc.edu>

Thanks Donald and Mark for your help. A few more queries...
I want to set up a remote SMTP server using qmail and use it  for both
inbound and outbound.

So what kind of aliases do I require for sendmail and qmail on the
remote smtp server to forward the messages on to the mailman server. Are
these to be defined in /etc/aliases on the remote smtp server ? Also, do
I need to run fetchmail on the mailman server to fetch messages from the
remote smtp server ?
Many thanks
Meenal
D G Teed wrote:
> Do you mean a remote SMTP server for inbound or outbound?
> List aliases only need to be known on the inbound MX server
> and on mailman server itself.
>
> The aliases on the mailman server would look like the kind
> you see if you run the newlist command for a new list or
> run genaliases.  They pipe each email to the mailman program
> with an argument.
>
> The aliases on the inbound MX server are the sort which
> forward maillist at yourdomain.com <mailto:maillist at yourdomain.com> to
> maillist at mailman.yourdomain.com <mailto:maillist at mailman.yourdomain.com>
> If you are using postfix, you might need to work with the
> transport file to deliver email to the subdomain
> mailman.yourdomain.com <http://mailman.yourdomain.com>
> (where mailman is the name of your mailman server and yourdomain.com
> <http://yourdomain.com>
> is the name of your domain).
>
>
> On 5/1/07, *Meenal Pant* <mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu
> <mailto:mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu>> wrote:
>
>     Hi ,
>     I want to set up mailman to use a remote smtp server. How to achieve
>     this ? I am having trouble understanding how to set up list aliases in
>     /etc/alias  in particular?
>     Thanks
>     Meenal
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------
>     Mailman-Users mailing list
>     Mailman-Users at python.org <mailto:Mailman-Users at python.org>
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>     <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>
>     Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>     Searchable Archives:
>     http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>     <http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/>
>     Unsubscribe:
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/donald.teed%40gmail.com
>
>     Security Policy:
>     http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>     <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp>
>
>


From tyler at beloit.edu  Wed May  2 17:51:51 2007
From: tyler at beloit.edu (Tim Tyler)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 10:51:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending html content to Mailman list?
Message-ID: <200705021551.l42Fpoif009906@beloit.edu>

Mailman experts,
   We are running 2.1.5 version of Mailman and I have a problem where 
we are trying to send an automatic update announcement with hyper 
links to a particular mailman list.  It works fine if we send the 
message directly to webmail or other pop clients, but all of the html 
code is exposed as text when sending through a mailman list.  We 
basically lose our hyper links.

    Is it possible to send html content through a mailman list?  If so, how?

Note: Here is an example of a message we pipe through sendmail:

From: stuboard at www.beloit.edu
To: xxx at beloit.edu
Subject: [announce] Student e-Board Bi-Daily Summary
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
content-Disposition: inline

<html><body>
<br>
Below is a summary of the most recent messages posted to the student campus
email bulletin board. The full content of these messages can be read by
going to <a 
href="http://www.beloit.edu/stumail">http://www.beloit.edu/stumail/<
/a> any time of the day.
<br><br>
Do not reply to this email.  If you have questions: contact the ISR
Help Desk at isrhelp at http://www.beloit.edu or at x2067
<br><br>
<a href="http://www.beloit.edu/stumail/0919.html"> SUBJECT: 
[announce] Do you st
udy Spanish? correction</a><br>
--BY: Sylvia Lopez (lopezs at beloit.edu) --DATE: 2007-05-01</a><br><br>

<a href="http://www.beloit.edu/stumail/0920.html"> SUBJECT: free 
shuttle wed 5/2
  for ultimate frisbee [announce]</a><br>



Tim Tyler
Network Engineer - Beloit College
tyler at beloit.edu 



From donald.teed at gmail.com  Wed May  2 18:10:19 2007
From: donald.teed at gmail.com (D G Teed)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 13:10:19 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Counting messages that went to postfix queue
In-Reply-To: <p06240805c25dc056f645@10.0.1.199>
References: <dd4da0390705010958w50d4639bwd49daf4fed34440f@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240805c25dc056f645@10.0.1.199>
Message-ID: <dd4da0390705020910qbafc563ic0aa3aef60483097@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Thanks for the great replies and help.

I found a perl script "findsender.pl" with google and it seems to be
useful. I seem to have missing mail list members from my maillog,
and one python error from mailman.

Here is what I did to verify non-mailing...

list_members maillist > /tmp/listnames
for person in `cat  /tmp/listnames`; do  ./findsender.pl $person maillog |
grep 'Found 0'; done
{returns 28 email addresses}

I didn't trust that findsender.pl actually parses postfix logs 100% so I
verified
with plain grep for any mention of the user addresses in /var/log/maillog or
/var/log/mailman/*    I found one reference of the 28 which findsender.plmissed.
This list has 1890 members, and 27 are not showing up at all in postfix
logs.

Unless postfix has a bug where some emails are not being logged, there seems
to be a problem with mailman.  I'm not looking for delivery - just any
reference
to the expected attempts to deliver.

I do however see an error in /var/log/mailman which matches the time of
this mass mailing:

Apr 30 15:43:40 2007 (1877) Uncaught runner exception: No terminating
boundary and no trailing empty line
Apr 30 15:43:40 2007 (1877) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 151, in dequeue
    msg = email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py", line 52, in
message_from_string
    return Parser(_class, strict=strict).parsestr(s)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 240, in _parsebody
    msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 265, in _parsebody
    msg = self.parse(fp)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 206, in _parsebody
    raise Errors.BoundaryError(
BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no trailing empty line

Apr 30 15:43:40 2007 (1877) Ignoring unparseable message:
1177958619.246433+b72521b62f4a6aa7dc74c339613c4ef7e9c3eb
a7

There are no errors like it in our previous months of using mailman
on other smaller departmental mailing lists.  The mailman smtp log does not
show
the entry for the 1800 something messages which were delivered OK.

My hunch, is that there is some bad data in our mailing list subscription
which wasn't caught anywhere and has created this issue.  We are given
data from the Alumni Affairs department to inject into the mailing list.
It may contain odd things.  I've seen a '#' and single quote appear in
the mail subscriptions.

Regards,

--Donald


On 5/2/07, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
>
> On 5/1/07, D G Teed wrote:
>
> >  I've tried finding the message queue IDs which were used
> >  and grep QueueID maillog | wc but this seems difficult
> >  to do since some reappear again in the logs, which were initially
> >  bounces.
>
> Mailman will give you the message-id, the list name, and the number
> of recipients it was sent to.  However, this won't help you for
> digest recipients, since Mailman will have to generate a different
> and totally unique message-id for that.  In addition, it will use the
> same message-id on outbound as was used on inbound, so unless you
> have different copies of your MTA running on different ports and
> sending their logs to different locations, you're going to get a mix
> of both inbound and outbound activity in your log files.  This will
> make it more difficult to track down what happened when.
>
> Now, postfix will give you a one-to-many mapping of the message-id
> and the queue-ids, and then you can track the status of the
> individual queue-ids.
>
> >  I also tried pflogsumm and looked at those stats.  At first I thought
> >  the message sizes and multiples of that message size going to
> >  different domains would be a key, but it seems to be inaccurate.
>
> Speaking as the author of the "mmdsr" script, and as someone who has
> hacked around with the pflogsumm script, I can tell you that this is
> a process that is harder to do than most people would give credit for.
>
> Beyond that, I'm not sure I can give you any specific advice.  I've
> been looking at installing Splunk on the python.org machines so that
> we can more easily track down what happened when to which mail
> messages, but right now it doesn't appear to know anything about
> Mailman log format.  I don't mind teaching it about that kind of
> stuff, but that does mean that we're that much further away from
> having any kind of short-term solution for this problem.
>
> >  I don't have any indications that anyone in our pilot list was lost,
> >  but we just need a method to account for the reliability.
>
> Mailman doesn't currently have much for you in this area.  We know
> that this is an area of weakness, and are planning on fixing this in
> upcoming versions.  However, we do not otherwise have a whole lot of
> details as to what will be going on when.
>
> If you have specific requirements, I would urge you to join the
> discussions on this topic in the Mailman Wiki pages.
>
> --
> Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
> Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>
>

From donald.teed at gmail.com  Wed May  2 18:34:23 2007
From: donald.teed at gmail.com (D G Teed)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 13:34:23 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman with remote smtp server
In-Reply-To: <4638B08C.3060901@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
References: <4636DBE6.6030107@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
	<dd4da0390705011736t6ccd7daav57e6e3a1bc804f89@mail.gmail.com>
	<4638B08C.3060901@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <dd4da0390705020934o3422acbaw173a57a41dfded9a@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know qmail.  However I think all email programs on *nix
will use /etc/aliases.

You do not use fetchmail unless by remote you mean a server
you do not administer.  Can you set up an alias on the remote
server?  I think you'll have to put more details into describing
what you are doing to get appropriate assistance.

The question on how to do this with 2 servers you do
have full access to is already well documented, I think.


On 5/2/07, Meenal Pant <mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
> Thanks Donald and Mark for your help. A few more queries...
> I want to set up a remote SMTP server using qmail and use it  for both
> inbound and outbound.
>
> So what kind of aliases do I require for sendmail and qmail on the
> remote smtp server to forward the messages on to the mailman server. Are
> these to be defined in /etc/aliases on the remote smtp server ? Also, do
> I need to run fetchmail on the mailman server to fetch messages from the
> remote smtp server ?
> Many thanks
> Meenal
> D G Teed wrote:
> > Do you mean a remote SMTP server for inbound or outbound?
> > List aliases only need to be known on the inbound MX server
> > and on mailman server itself.
> >
> > The aliases on the mailman server would look like the kind
> > you see if you run the newlist command for a new list or
> > run genaliases.  They pipe each email to the mailman program
> > with an argument.
> >
> > The aliases on the inbound MX server are the sort which
> > forward maillist at yourdomain.com <mailto:maillist at yourdomain.com> to
> > maillist at mailman.yourdomain.com <mailto:maillist at mailman.yourdomain.com>
> > If you are using postfix, you might need to work with the
> > transport file to deliver email to the subdomain
> > mailman.yourdomain.com <http://mailman.yourdomain.com>
> > (where mailman is the name of your mailman server and yourdomain.com
> > <http://yourdomain.com>
> > is the name of your domain).
> >
> >
> > On 5/1/07, *Meenal Pant* <mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu
> > <mailto:mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu>> wrote:
> >
> >     Hi ,
> >     I want to set up mailman to use a remote smtp server. How to achieve
> >     this ? I am having trouble understanding how to set up list aliases
> in
> >     /etc/alias  in particular?
> >     Thanks
> >     Meenal
> >
> >     ------------------------------------------------------
> >     Mailman-Users mailing list
> >     Mailman-Users at python.org <mailto:Mailman-Users at python.org>
> >     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> >     <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>
> >     Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> >     Searchable Archives:
> >     http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> >     <http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/>
> >     Unsubscribe:
> >
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/donald.teed%40gmail.com
> >
> >     Security Policy:
> >
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> >     <
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp>
> >
> >
>
>

From msapiro at value.net  Wed May  2 19:10:04 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 10:10:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail/Vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <463839B5.3060202@ntm.org.pg>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705021010040359b7f5e88b@msapiro>

Simon Schuh wrote:
>
>In /home/vpopmail/domains there is a directory for every domain.
>Like: /home/vpopmail/domains/mydomain.tld/
>In there are .qmail files for all defined adresses.
>
>Mailman didn't create any files there.
>Can I tell Mailman where to create the files or how I'm doing this?


Mailman does not create any aliases for qmail. You have to create them
manually, 10 for each list. When you create a list, you should get a
report and an email about the aliases similar to the following for the
'mailman' list.

## mailman mailing list
mailman:           "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:   "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:   "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:   "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe
mailman"

but this is not the format for qmail alaises. I know nothing about
qmail. All I know is at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/qmail-issues.html> which you say
you've read.

What it says to me is that for each list you need to create 10 files
named .qmail-x where x is from the 'local parts above (e.g. mailman.
mailman-admin, etc.). These files should be created in the
/home/vpopmail/domains/mydomain.tld/ directory for the list domain.

The contents of these files should be something related to the
respective pipe command in the above list similar to

|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman

etc.

This is only my understanding of what I read in
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/qmail-issues.html>. It may not be
correct.

For further information, you'd have to see qmail documention or ask on
a qmail list or wait until someone with relevant experience sees your
post on this list.

As an alternate to aliases in qmail, there is a contributed script at
contrib/qmail-to-mailman.py in the Mailman source distribution and a
brief note about it at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/qmail-issues.html>. It is 8 years
old, but it might work.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed May  2 19:20:46 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 10:20:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminders and unsubscribed users
In-Reply-To: <005a01c78cce$255445e0$6601a8c0@aspen>
Message-ID: <PC17602007050210204600466dc1de9c@msapiro>

Jim Miller wrote:

>Thanks for the reply Mark.  I do have a ticket opened with cpanel.  I was
>hoping that I might get some insight on this issue here as well, since I did
>see some old inquiries about this same problem in the archives, and it was
>not related to cpanel installs.  I did not see resolution to any of those
>older archive issues.


Generally, as Brad noted in another reply, in a Mailman from source
installation, this issue comes about because the site decides to
install an upgrade in a new location, and the old crontab running the
old cron/mailpasswds against the old lists is left in place.


>I have no idea how the password reminder script is
>coming up with these old/deleted users to send them reminders, they simply
>do not seem to even exist anywhere!  For now, I have just removed the
>reminder script from being called by cron, seems brute force may be the only
>solution!


And it may not even work. I too have no idea how this happens, but
based on other reports including the one I pointed to in my prior
reply, there is some cPanel magic involved.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mkabot at soarol.com  Wed May  2 19:21:10 2007
From: mkabot at soarol.com (Michael Kabot)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 13:21:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail/Vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705021010040359b7f5e88b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <000201c78cde$47db9630$650aa8c0@office>



Mark,

Thanks for adding this information !

Simon,

I use Plesk for server control which automatically creates the files Mark is
talking about.  Thus I don't have to create them manually.

>From my installation of Qmail, I can confirm that all the files discussed
below need to be created.  That is how Qmail knows about the mailing lists
and their names.  Take an existing .qmail-<alias> file in the Vpopmail
directory and use it as an example of how to name the files and their proper
permissions.

  
In Service,
 
Michael Kabot
President - SOAR
  Scouting Online
    Affordable & Reliable
mkabot at soarol.com
585-388-0211

www.soarol.com 
 
 


| -----Original Message-----
| From: mailman-users-bounces+mkabot=soarol.com at python.org 
| [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+mkabot=soarol.com at python.org] 
| On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
| Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 1:10 PM
| To: Simon Schuh; mailman-users at python.org
| Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail/Vpopmail
| 
| 
| Simon Schuh wrote:
| >
| >In /home/vpopmail/domains there is a directory for every domain.
| >Like: /home/vpopmail/domains/mydomain.tld/
| >In there are .qmail files for all defined adresses.
| >
| >Mailman didn't create any files there.
| >Can I tell Mailman where to create the files or how I'm doing this?
| 
| 
| Mailman does not create any aliases for qmail. You have to 
| create them manually, 10 for each list. When you create a 
| list, you should get a report and an email about the aliases 
| similar to the following for the 'mailman' list.
| 
| ## mailman mailing list
| mailman:           "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
| mailman-admin:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
| mailman-bounces:   "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
| mailman-confirm:   "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
| mailman-join:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
| mailman-leave:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
| mailman-owner:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
| mailman-request:   "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
| mailman-subscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman 
| subscribe mailman"
| mailman-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman 
| unsubscribe mailman"
| 
| but this is not the format for qmail alaises. I know nothing 
| about qmail. All I know is at 
| <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/qmail-issues.html> which 
| you say you've read.
| 
| What it says to me is that for each list you need to create 
| 10 files named .qmail-x where x is from the 'local parts 
| above (e.g. mailman. mailman-admin, etc.). These files should 
| be created in the /home/vpopmail/domains/mydomain.tld/ 
| directory for the list domain.
| 
| The contents of these files should be something related to 
| the respective pipe command in the above list similar to
| 
| |preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman
| 
| etc.
| 
| This is only my understanding of what I read in 
| <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/qmail-issues.html>. It 
| may not be correct.
| 
| For further information, you'd have to see qmail documention 
| or ask on a qmail list or wait until someone with relevant 
| experience sees your post on this list.
| 
| As an alternate to aliases in qmail, there is a contributed 
| script at contrib/qmail-to-mailman.py in the Mailman source 
| distribution and a brief note about it at 
| <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/qmail-issues.html>. It 
| is 8 years old, but it might work.
| 
| -- 
| Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
| San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
| 
| ------------------------------------------------------
| Mailman-Users mailing list
| Mailman-Users at python.org 
| http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
| Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
| Searchable Archives: 
| http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
| Unsubscribe: 
| http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mkabot%40
soarol.com

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed May  2 18:53:58 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 11:53:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail/Vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <46384FC1.10506@ntm.org.pg>
References: <000201c78c66$e2935e10$650aa8c0@office>
	<463839B5.3060202@ntm.org.pg> <p06240801c25decba5ddb@[10.0.1.199]>
	<46384FC1.10506@ntm.org.pg>
Message-ID: <p06240800c25e7184172f@[10.0.1.199]>

On 5/2/07, Simon Schuh wrote:

>>>   I'm using ServerAdmin24, it's developed by the German ISP Strato.
>>
>>  In which case, you need to ask your questions of them.
>>
>>  If you didn't install the software yourself, then you need to ask the
>>  people who did.
>>
>  I didn't install it. It was a ready-to-run server. But why should I ask
>  them how to configure Mailman?

Because they may not have followed all of our instructions, or put 
things in a different location than we specify.

If you install the software yourself, from the instructions we 
provide on our site(s), and you don't use a binary package version 
that someone else created, etc... then we're much more likely to help 
you.

>  Sorry, I don't understand that connection.

The issue is that it's not clear to me who is responsible for 
installing the software on your system, and whether or not it's 
already installed but not yet properly configured, etc....

>  Nobody installed Mailman. This is what I'm trying right now. (Like I
>  wrote before)

Okay, I missed that part.  I thought that you'd said that it was 
developed by a German ISP, and it wasn't clear to me what you meant 
by this.

>  But my Mailman still doesn't work, so I thought I want to try to ask you
>  guys and there are actually people you tried to help me.
>  But if you think, I'm wrong here, tell me and I will not bother you any
>  more.

I don't do qmail, so I doubt I'm going to be able to provide much help.

I was just trying to help you find the right people that you need to 
talk to, based on what I could understand of your situation with your 
servers and who installed what, etc....

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed May  2 18:59:15 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 11:59:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending html content to Mailman list?
In-Reply-To: <200705021551.l42Fpoif009906@beloit.edu>
References: <200705021551.l42Fpoif009906@beloit.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240801c25e73538398@[10.0.1.199]>

On 5/2/07, Tim Tyler wrote:

>     Is it possible to send html content through a mailman list?  If so, how?

See FAQs 3.37 and 4.39, although the FAQs at 3.18 and 3.40 may also be useful.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed May  2 19:09:16 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 12:09:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Counting messages that went to postfix queue
In-Reply-To: <dd4da0390705020910qbafc563ic0aa3aef60483097@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd4da0390705010958w50d4639bwd49daf4fed34440f@mail.gmail.com>	
	<p06240805c25dc056f645@10.0.1.199>
	<dd4da0390705020910qbafc563ic0aa3aef60483097@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c25e7406adb3@[10.0.1.199]>

On 5/2/07, D G Teed wrote:

>  I didn't trust that findsender.pl actually parses postfix logs 100% so
>  I verified with plain grep for any mention of the user addresses in
>  /var/log/maillog or
>  /var/log/mailman/*    I found one reference of the 28 which
>  findsender.pl missed.
>  This list has 1890 members, and 27 are not showing up at all in postfix
>  logs.

Keep in mind that some of those users may have set themselves (or 
been set) to "NOMAIL" status, or they may be digest subscribers.  In 
either of those cases, they would not be found in the list of normal 
recipients.

You have to look to make sure you know how many "normal" subscribers you have.

>  Unless postfix has a bug where some emails are not being logged, there
>  seems to be a problem with mailman.  I'm not looking for delivery - just
>  any reference to the expected attempts to deliver.

If you found a bug, I think it's much more likely that it exists 
within Mailman or the Python libraries or Python itself than postfix. 
Or you could have found a bug in syslog, where postfix sent the data 
to be logged, but syslog didn't actually write it to the file.

>  There are no errors like it in our previous months of using mailman
>  on other smaller departmental mailing lists.  The mailman smtp log does
>  not show the entry for the 1800 something messages which were delivered OK.

That's weird.  You should definitely see Mailman smtp log entries for 
the other messages which were delivered.

>  My hunch, is that there is some bad data in our mailing list subscription
>  which wasn't caught anywhere and has created this issue.  We are given
>  data from the Alumni Affairs department to inject into the mailing list.
>  It may contain odd things.  I've seen a '#' and single quote appear in
>  the mail subscriptions.

That's possible.  I think you can use dumpdb to take a look at the 
list of subscribers, to see if there's anything funky there.

However, given that you've not had problems before and are now having 
problems, tells me that either this is a result of a new addition to 
the list, or that maybe there was a problem with the way that 
particular message was formatted.


Remind me again -- what version of Mailman are you using?  If you're 
not already on 2.1.9, you might want to consider making that upgrade, 
because I know that the more recent code has gotten more robust in 
the face of weirdness on input, and continuing to operate as close to 
normal as possible even though there may be some messages which don't 
go through.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From shirishag75 at gmail.com  Wed May  2 19:46:56 2007
From: shirishag75 at gmail.com (shirish agarwal)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 23:16:56 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] When would mailman 2.2 be a reality?
Message-ID: <511f47f50705021046k23e91f41vce9ad93e17bfa813@mail.gmail.com>

 When is work on mailman 2.2 supposed to start? Is there some kind of
   roadmap or trac something like that so people can see how the progress is
   happening along? Actually looking forward for the pipermail thing.  Thanx
in advance.

-- 
          Shirish Agarwal
  This work is licensed under the Creative Commons NonCommercial Sampling
Plus 1.0 License. To view a copy of this license, visit
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/nc-sampling+/1.0/

From msapiro at value.net  Wed May  2 19:52:46 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 10:52:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Counting messages that went to postfix queue
In-Reply-To: <dd4da0390705020910qbafc563ic0aa3aef60483097@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705021052460484449b70f2@msapiro>

D G Teed wrote:
>
>Unless postfix has a bug where some emails are not being logged, there seems
>to be a problem with mailman.  I'm not looking for delivery - just any
>reference
>to the expected attempts to deliver.


This is in the log message in Mailman's smtp log. E.g., something like

May 01 22:43:36 2007 (1570) <PC17602007050122432005312a821b07 at msapiro>
smtp for 198 recips, completed in 1.390 seconds

In this case, Mailman attempted delivery to the MTA for Message-Id:
<PC17602007050122432005312a821b07 at msapiro> for 198 recipients.


>I do however see an error in /var/log/mailman which matches the time of
>this mass mailing:
>
>Apr 30 15:43:40 2007 (1877) Uncaught runner exception: No terminating
>boundary and no trailing empty line
>Apr 30 15:43:40 2007 (1877) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
>    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 151, in dequeue
>    msg = email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py", line 52, in
>message_from_string
>    return Parser(_class, strict=strict).parsestr(s)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
>    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
>    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 240, in _parsebody
>    msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
>    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
>    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 265, in _parsebody
>    msg = self.parse(fp)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
>    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 206, in _parsebody
>    raise Errors.BoundaryError(
>BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no trailing empty line
>
>Apr 30 15:43:40 2007 (1877) Ignoring unparseable message:
>1177958619.246433+b72521b62f4a6aa7dc74c339613c4ef7e9c3eba7


This has nothing to do with delivery. This is an incoming message,
almost certainly spam, with defective MIME structure that was
discarded in its entirety.


>The mailman smtp log does not
>show
>the entry for the 1800 something messages which were delivered OK.


Are you using SMTPDirect? Do you have any overrides in mm_cfg.py for

DELIVERY_MODULE, SMTP_LOG_EVERY_MESSAGE or SMTP_LOG_EACH_FAILURE. Are
there any log messages in 'smtp' (similar to my example above)?


>My hunch, is that there is some bad data in our mailing list subscription
>which wasn't caught anywhere and has created this issue.  We are given
>data from the Alumni Affairs department to inject into the mailing list.
>It may contain odd things.  I've seen a '#' and single quote appear in
>the mail subscriptions.


This could be true. Try

bin/list_members -i <listname>

and/or

bin/list_members <listname> | grep '[^-0-9a-zA-Z_+.@]'

to narrow down the opportunities.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed May  2 19:54:37 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 10:54:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] When would mailman 2.2 be a reality?
In-Reply-To: <511f47f50705021046k23e91f41vce9ad93e17bfa813@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070502105437062529f30476@msapiro>

shirish agarwal wrote:

> When is work on mailman 2.2 supposed to start? Is there some kind of
>   roadmap or trac something like that so people can see how the progress is
>   happening along? Actually looking forward for the pipermail thing.  Thanx
>in advance.


Development is ongoing.

See <http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+2.2>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed May  2 20:05:04 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 11:05:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending html content to Mailman list?
In-Reply-To: <200705021551.l42Fpoif009906@beloit.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705021105040234f00e070e@msapiro>

Tim Tyler wrote:
>
>    Is it possible to send html content through a mailman list?  If so, how?

What are your Content filtering settings? Your message as below should
pass through unscathed if filter_content is No or if filter_content is
Yes, pass_mime_types includes text/html and convert_html_to_plaintext
is No.

This works for individual messages and for the MIME format digest. For
the pipermail archive and plain digest, the html will still be
scrubbed. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.037.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From drew.tenenholz at isid.org  Wed May  2 22:07:42 2007
From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 16:07:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Retrieving list membership via email
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070501210751051523335db6@msapiro>
References: <PC176020070501210751051523335db6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240899c25e99247d41@[192.168.209.104]>

Mark --

Thanks for the confirmation.  I tested again, and the list moderator 
password retrieves the member roster via email while the list admin 
password gives the "You are not allowed..." result.  This is OK for 
me, since it is the moderators who have been asking for the 
subscriber list anyway.

Either password works from the /listinfo/listname page to show the 
subscribers on the web interface.

I am puzzled by the differences in behavior.  Should I be worried 
about something in the setup?

TIA
--Drew Tenenholz


Drew wrote:
...
>A message sent to listname-request at example.com with a body of "who"
>should return the list members. (FAQ 3.62)
>
>However, my list has 'private_roster' set to 'List Admin Only', and
>when (from a list owner email address) I send "who admin_password", I
>get:
>
>- Results:
>      You are not allowed to retrieve the list membership.
>
>Is this expected behavior?

And At 9:07 PM -0700 5/1/07, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>Assuming 'admin_password' above is the actual list admin or moderator
>password and not the user password of the admin, then no, it is not
>the expected behavior. If it is the user password of the admin, then
>it is the expected behavior.
>
>The password needs to be the list's admin or moderator password. The
>address you send the 'who' from and to which the results will be
>returned can be any address.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>-------------------------------------

From donald.teed at gmail.com  Wed May  2 22:11:20 2007
From: donald.teed at gmail.com (D G Teed)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 17:11:20 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Counting messages that went to postfix queue
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c25e7406adb3@10.0.1.199>
References: <dd4da0390705010958w50d4639bwd49daf4fed34440f@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240805c25dc056f645@10.0.1.199>
	<dd4da0390705020910qbafc563ic0aa3aef60483097@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240802c25e7406adb3@10.0.1.199>
Message-ID: <dd4da0390705021311l157e4fc4jfc2727d84a115188@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/2/07, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
>
> On 5/2/07, D G Teed wrote:
>
> >  I didn't trust that findsender.pl actually parses postfix logs 100% so
> >  I verified with plain grep for any mention of the user addresses in
> >  /var/log/maillog or
> >  /var/log/mailman/*    I found one reference of the 28 which
> >  findsender.pl missed.
> >  This list has 1890 members, and 27 are not showing up at all in postfix
> >  logs.
>
> Keep in mind that some of those users may have set themselves (or
> been set) to "NOMAIL" status, or they may be digest subscribers.  In
> either of those cases, they would not be found in the list of normal
> recipients.


This is a pilot server.  I subscribed all users to the list myself
with no welcome message - only minutes before the message
was delivered.  It is a one way list.

You have to look to make sure you know how many "normal" subscribers you
> have.
>
> >  Unless postfix has a bug where some emails are not being logged, there
> >  seems to be a problem with mailman.  I'm not looking for delivery -
> just
> >  any reference to the expected attempts to deliver.
>
> If you found a bug, I think it's much more likely that it exists
> within Mailman or the Python libraries or Python itself than postfix.
> Or you could have found a bug in syslog, where postfix sent the data
> to be logged, but syslog didn't actually write it to the file.


It seems like mailman is the most likely point of failure.  There was a
python error
in the error log file for mailman.  Unless we are taking about versions of
python.
I'm running 2.3.4 for that (Redhat EL 4).

>  There are no errors like it in our previous months of using mailman
> >  on other smaller departmental mailing lists.  The mailman smtp log does
> >  not show the entry for the 1800 something messages which were delivered
> OK.
>
> That's weird.  You should definitely see Mailman smtp log entries for
> the other messages which were delivered.


Unless the python bomb out happened prior to logging the smtp info.

>  My hunch, is that there is some bad data in our mailing list subscription
> >  which wasn't caught anywhere and has created this issue.  We are given
> >  data from the Alumni Affairs department to inject into the mailing
> list.
> >  It may contain odd things.  I've seen a '#' and single quote appear in
> >  the mail subscriptions.
>
> That's possible.  I think you can use dumpdb to take a look at the
> list of subscribers, to see if there's anything funky there.


dumpdb shows the email case with the single quote wrapped with
double quotes, unlike the regular ones.  I've verifyed the list
prior to import to mailman, with Mail::VRFY and only found
2 bogus format email addresses.  One had the quote, and the
other had a bad top level domain.  Not 26 problems.

However, given that you've not had problems before and are now having
> problems, tells me that either this is a result of a new addition to
> the list, or that maybe there was a problem with the way that
> particular message was formatted.
>
>
> Remind me again -- what version of Mailman are you using?


I'm on 2.1.5.  I have the patch to allow subscribers in one list
to be added to posting ability in another list by simply adding
the @listname to the allowed set.  Hopefully that still works
in 2.1.9.

  If you're
> not already on 2.1.9, you might want to consider making that upgrade,
> because I know that the more recent code has gotten more robust in
> the face of weirdness on input, and continuing to operate as close to
> normal as possible even though there may be some messages which don't
> go through.


I'll take a look.

--Donald

From msapiro at value.net  Wed May  2 23:22:23 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 14:22:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Counting messages that went to postfix queue
In-Reply-To: <dd4da0390705021311l157e4fc4jfc2727d84a115188@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705021422230250e73e2691@msapiro>

D G Teed wrote:
>
>It seems like mailman is the most likely point of failure.  There was a
>python error
>in the error log file for mailman.  Unless we are taking about versions of
>python.
>I'm running 2.3.4 for that (Redhat EL 4).


Have you seen my posts in this thread archived at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-May/056883.html>
and
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-May/056914.html>?
In the latter post, I try to tell you that the error in your Mailman
error log has nothing to do with outgoing mail.


>Unless the python bomb out happened prior to logging the smtp info.



Again, that logged traceback has nothing to do with the message that
was actually delivered to (some of) the 1800 recips.




Please see the post at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-May/056914.html>
and report the answers to

"Are you using SMTPDirect? Do you have any overrides in mm_cfg.py for
DELIVERY_MODULE, SMTP_LOG_EVERY_MESSAGE or SMTP_LOG_EACH_FAILURE.

Are there any log messages in 'smtp' at all (similar to my example
above)?


Also, note that I have not directly addresses this post to you as I did
my previous two replies, so if you receive this from the list and
didn't receive the prior two directly, you might investigate why you
are blocking mail from me or at least unset 'nodups' in your
mailman-users subscription options.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed May  2 23:45:53 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 14:45:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Retrieving list membership via email
In-Reply-To: <p06240899c25e99247d41@[192.168.209.104]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705021445530609a56a8096@msapiro>

Drew Tenenholz wrote:
>
>Thanks for the confirmation.  I tested again, and the list moderator 
>password retrieves the member roster via email while the list admin 
>password gives the "You are not allowed..." result.  This is OK for 
>me, since it is the moderators who have been asking for the 
>subscriber list anyway.
>
>Either password works from the /listinfo/listname page to show the 
>subscribers on the web interface.
>
>I am puzzled by the differences in behavior.  Should I be worried 
>about something in the setup?


Well, something is amiss, but I don't know what. If you're sure that
the admin password was given correctly, I don't know what else could
be wrong. It wouldn't have anything to do with the list configuration.

Possibly, someone didn't want the admin password to be used in this
context and patched the Mailman/Commands/cmd_who.py module to not
accept it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu May  3 02:51:27 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 19:51:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Counting messages that went to postfix queue
In-Reply-To: <dd4da0390705021311l157e4fc4jfc2727d84a115188@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd4da0390705010958w50d4639bwd49daf4fed34440f@mail.gmail.com>	
	<p06240805c25dc056f645@10.0.1.199>	
	<dd4da0390705020910qbafc563ic0aa3aef60483097@mail.gmail.com>	
	<p06240802c25e7406adb3@10.0.1.199>
	<dd4da0390705021311l157e4fc4jfc2727d84a115188@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c25ee17a54ff@[10.0.1.199]>

On 5/2/07, D G Teed wrote:

>  It seems like mailman is the most likely point of failure.  There was a
>  python error in the error log file for mailman.  Unless we are taking
>  about versions of python.  I'm running 2.3.4 for that (Redhat EL 4).

There are different versions of Python.  More importantly, different 
versions of Mailman require different versions of Python -- and are 
more or less *incompatible* with other versions of Python.

In some cases, this is a matter of Mailman being forced to back-port 
certain features that were introduced in later versions of Python -- 
you shouldn't have to worry about these.

In other cases, features within Python just plain broke, or got 
changed, or got "fixed", and that completely breaks Mailman.

You need to know which version of Python you need for which version of Mailman.


Yes, I know this is a royal pain-in-the-ass.  We're trying to get 
better about this, believe me.

>  I'm on 2.1.5.  I have the patch to allow subscribers in one list
>  to be added to posting ability in another list by simply adding
>  the @listname to the allowed set.  Hopefully that still works
>  in 2.1.9.

Ahh.  Yeah, if at all possible, you definitely want to upgrade the 
version of Mailman you've got.  The patch should be applicable to 
version 2.1.9, without too much hassle.

And the latest version of Python 2.3.x is the right one for use with 
Mailman 2.1.9.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From msapiro at value.net  Thu May  3 03:59:01 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 18:59:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Counting messages that went to postfix queue
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c25ee17a54ff@[10.0.1.199]>
Message-ID: <PC17602007050218590102962302ed89@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>On 5/2/07, D G Teed wrote:
>
>>  I'm on 2.1.5.  I have the patch to allow subscribers in one list
>>  to be added to posting ability in another list by simply adding
>>  the @listname to the allowed set.  Hopefully that still works
>>  in 2.1.9.
>
>Ahh.  Yeah, if at all possible, you definitely want to upgrade the 
>version of Mailman you've got.  The patch should be applicable to 
>version 2.1.9, without too much hassle.

The patch at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>
applies without change to Mailman versions through 2.1.9 and at least
as far back as 2.1.4.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jpa3nos at yahoo.com  Thu May  3 12:00:57 2007
From: jpa3nos at yahoo.com (John Papapanos)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 03:00:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments - archives and encoding problems
Message-ID: <773156.81345.qm@web53902.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi list,

I have 2 different problems with attachments in
archives in mailman lists.

1. The first problem has to do with attachment URLs in

the web archive. The URL is split into two lines where
the first line ends with a '='. If you concatenate the
two lines and omit the '=' the URL works fine. I know
this problem has been already discussed but I haven't
found a working solution yet. The mail is delivered
directly from my mail client to the MTA without any
intermidiate machines.
Is there a solution to the broken link ?

2. The second problem is that mails having an
attachment are displayed fine in the web archives only
if the mail was sent with iso-8859-1 encoding. If I
choose a different encoding in my mail client 
(eq. iso-8859-7 or utf-8) mails in the web archives
are displayed scrambled. This is not the case if the 
mail does not have an attachment where it is handled
correctly by mailman regadless the encoding of the
mail.   

Thank you.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl  Thu May  3 12:11:02 2007
From: R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl (Rolf E. Sonneveld)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 12:11:02 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Troubleshooting posting of a message
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007050120323909536d676840@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007050120323909536d676840@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4639B536.7030104@sonnection.nl>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Rolf E. Sonneveld wrote:
>   
>> Now, I tested the following:
>>
>> I became user mailman
>> mailman> cd /usr/local/mailman/scripts
>> mailman> ./post <listname>
>> <message input>
>> <ctrl-D>
>>
>> and indeed something showed up in the locks logfile, as well as in the 
>> post logfile and in the bounce logfile (as the sender address was not 
>> defined, mailman could not authorize the message submissions, which 
>> ended in a bounce). So it seems that the calling program within the MTA 
>> gets a positive success status from mailman, but something is wrong 
>> during message submission. To repeat part of he logfile:
>>
>> [...]
>> 11:26:48.19: #1: running wrapper for every recipient
>> 11:26:48.19: #1:  seeking back to the beginning of the message
>> 11:26:48.19: #1:  about to fork()
>> 11:26:48.19: #1:   command completed successfully
>> 11:26:48.19: #1: cleaning up
>> 11:26:48.19: #1: mm_opers_free() starting
>> 11:26:48.19: #1: mm_opers_free() returning
>> 11:26:48.19: #1:   waiting child 25428
>> 11:26:48.20: #1: dequeue finished
>> 11:26:48.21: #1:   command completed successfully
>> 11:26:48.21: #1: cleaning up
>> [...]
>>     
>
>
> I see two possibilities.
>
> 1) the wrapper is failing and this fact is not communicated back to the
> MTA. Possibly there is a group mismatch or some other problem, but
> these result in stderr output from the wrapper and a non-zero exit
> status, both of which should be seen by the MTA.
>
> 2) the wrapper's precompiled path to the scripts directory is to
> something other than /usr/local/mailman/scripts.
>
> It is not clear to me from your initial posts whether this issue
> involves just one list or all lists and whether things this list (or
> all lists) ever worked.
>   

It involves all created lists. And the odd thing is that it seems that 
the lists sometimes work, and sometimes not. After more investigation I 
found the following pattern: when I create a new list and add one or 
more members to it (using add_members), and I post a message to this 
list using one of the subscribed addresses as the sender address, this 
posting disappears (as described in my previous messages). However, when 
I add new members (so a second add_members action), and when I send mail 
after that memberlist change, then the message is delivered properly!

> In any case, you could try your test similarly to the above, but using
> the wrapper as in
>
> cd /usr/local/mailman/mail      (or whatever the correct directory is)
> ./mailman post <listname>
> <message input>
> <ctrl-D>
>
> The first attempt will probably result in a group mismatch error before
> it reads any message input. This will at least tell you what group it
> is expecting which may help if there is really a group mismatch with
> the MTA.
>
> Then if you can try it again as the expected group, you can see if it
> actually posts the message.
>   

Thanks for this troubleshooting suggestion. Is there a way I can specify 
a sender address for this wrapper?

/rolf

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu May  3 13:41:32 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 20:41:32 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Attachments - archives and encoding problems
In-Reply-To: <773156.81345.qm@web53902.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <773156.81345.qm@web53902.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <87ps5if82b.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

John Papapanos writes:

 > Is there a solution to the broken link ?

This is not a "problem" that can be "solved".  Mailman (or some other
mail program) here is conforming to the recommendation in the
standards that lines in mail bodies be broken at a reasonable length.
Since this behavior is recommended, rather than required, a patch to
provide an option has a good chance of being accepted I should think.
(As a supporter of standards, I hope the core developers will choose
to spend their time improving conforming behavior, not providing
options for the benefit of those who use non-conforming MUAs!)

It might also be possible to use an 8-bit transfer encoding for the
body which might relax the line length limit, I forget exactly what
the standards say about that.  However, I don't think Mailman
currently supports that as an option. :-(

 > 2. The second problem is that mails having an
 > attachment are displayed fine in the web archives only
 > if the mail was sent with iso-8859-1 encoding. If I
 > choose a different encoding in my mail client 
 > (eq. iso-8859-7 or utf-8) mails in the web archives
 > are displayed scrambled.

What do you mean by "scrambled"?  Can you give a URL where we can
observe this?  What web browser do you use?  How is it configured for
viewing non-ASCII/ISO-8859-1 encodings?


From jpa3nos at yahoo.com  Thu May  3 14:19:15 2007
From: jpa3nos at yahoo.com (John Papapanos)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 05:19:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments - archives and encoding problems
In-Reply-To: <87ps5if82b.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <314196.68859.qm@web53909.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> What do you mean by "scrambled"?  Can you give a URL
> where we can
> observe this?  What web browser do you use?  How is
> it configured for
> viewing non-ASCII/ISO-8859-1 encodings?
> 

Here is a URL where I created a list for testing
mailman.

https://mail.bioacademy.gr/pipermail/testlist2/2007-May/thread.html

I have sent several mails to the lists using
iso-8859-1 and iso-8859-7 encodings.

The 2nd and 3rd mails do not really hava an attachment
(forgot to actually attach the file)

Check out the mail with the subject
[Testlist2] Mail sent as iso-8859-7 image attachment

It is not readable. I can't figure out what encoding
is actually used.

I sent the mails using thunderbird by changing the
outgoing mail character encoding in the preferences.

I use firefox to display the web archives. And I
change
the character encoding view settings when the encoding

is not autodetected.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From simon_schuh at ntm.org.pg  Thu May  3 14:24:07 2007
From: simon_schuh at ntm.org.pg (Simon Schuh)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 22:24:07 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail/Vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705021010040359b7f5e88b@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200705021010040359b7f5e88b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4639D467.7090300@ntm.org.pg>

I tried and tried to create the .qmail files, but now I found out that I 
simply had to add a line in /var/qmail/users/assign:
+mailman-:mailman:280:60000:/usr/local/mailman:-:: (60000 is the 
vpopmail group).
Now it works fine. There is no need to manually create .qmail files, the 
script handles it all.

Thank you all!

Simon

Mark Sapiro schrieb:
> Simon Schuh wrote:
>   
>> In /home/vpopmail/domains there is a directory for every domain.
>> Like: /home/vpopmail/domains/mydomain.tld/
>> In there are .qmail files for all defined adresses.
>>
>> Mailman didn't create any files there.
>> Can I tell Mailman where to create the files or how I'm doing this?
>>     
>
>
> Mailman does not create any aliases for qmail. You have to create them
> manually, 10 for each list. When you create a list, you should get a
> report and an email about the aliases similar to the following for the
> 'mailman' list.
>
> ## mailman mailing list
> mailman:           "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
> mailman-admin:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
> mailman-bounces:   "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
> mailman-confirm:   "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
> mailman-join:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
> mailman-leave:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
> mailman-owner:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
> mailman-request:   "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
> mailman-subscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
> mailman-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe
> mailman"
>
> but this is not the format for qmail alaises. I know nothing about
> qmail. All I know is at
> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/qmail-issues.html> which you say
> you've read.
>
> What it says to me is that for each list you need to create 10 files
> named .qmail-x where x is from the 'local parts above (e.g. mailman.
> mailman-admin, etc.). These files should be created in the
> /home/vpopmail/domains/mydomain.tld/ directory for the list domain.
>
> The contents of these files should be something related to the
> respective pipe command in the above list similar to
>
> |preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman
>
> etc.
>
> This is only my understanding of what I read in
> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/qmail-issues.html>. It may not be
> correct.
>
> For further information, you'd have to see qmail documention or ask on
> a qmail list or wait until someone with relevant experience sees your
> post on this list.
>
> As an alternate to aliases in qmail, there is a contributed script at
> contrib/qmail-to-mailman.py in the Mailman source distribution and a
> brief note about it at
> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/qmail-issues.html>. It is 8 years
> old, but it might work.
>
>   


From msapiro at value.net  Thu May  3 16:42:01 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 07:42:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Troubleshooting posting of a message
In-Reply-To: <4639B536.7030104@sonnection.nl>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705030742010546eb2e2d03@msapiro>

Rolf E. Sonneveld wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> It is not clear to me from your initial posts whether this issue
>> involves just one list or all lists and whether things this list (or
>> all lists) ever worked.
>>   
>
>It involves all created lists. And the odd thing is that it seems that 
>the lists sometimes work, and sometimes not. After more investigation I 
>found the following pattern: when I create a new list and add one or 
>more members to it (using add_members), and I post a message to this 
>list using one of the subscribed addresses as the sender address, this 
>posting disappears (as described in my previous messages). However, when 
>I add new members (so a second add_members action), and when I send mail 
>after that memberlist change, then the message is delivered properly!


That is very odd. Since the problem appears to be in the interaction
between the MTA and the wrapper, and the wrapper/post script do not
look at the contents of a post or really any other attributes of it -
they just queue it for IncomingRunner. The wrapper doesn't even look
at the list name; it just passes it to the post script. Also, the act
of adding more members to a list does not affect anything that the MTA
looks at (I think, see next paragraph).

The log you posted previously seems to say the MTA delivering to
Mailman is 'middleman'. I don't know anything at all about this MTA.
Another hint in a prior post tells me it may have some programatic way
(rather than aliases) for determining whether and how a post should be
delivered to Mailman. How does this work and what does it look at?

What user:group does the MTA use to invoke the wrapper? Can you invoke
the wrapper manually as below as that user:group and see if it reports
a group mismatch error

>> In any case, you could try your test similarly to the above, but using
>> the wrapper as in
>>
>> cd /usr/local/mailman/mail      (or whatever the correct directory is)
>> ./mailman post <listname>
>> <message input>
>> <ctrl-D>
>>
>> The first attempt will probably result in a group mismatch error before
>> it reads any message input. This will at least tell you what group it
>> is expecting which may help if there is really a group mismatch with
>> the MTA.
>>
>> Then if you can try it again as the expected group, you can see if it
>> actually posts the message.
>>   
>
>Thanks for this troubleshooting suggestion. Is there a way I can specify 
>a sender address for this wrapper?


If you mean an envelope sender, include a "From " line as the first
line of the message header. If you mean just the sender for list
membership tests, the regular From: header should be sufficient.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu May  3 16:55:14 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 23:55:14 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments - archives and encoding problems
In-Reply-To: <314196.68859.qm@web53909.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <87ps5if82b.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<314196.68859.qm@web53909.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <87fy6eez3h.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mailman developers: I've submitted a bug on the SF tracker (what, no
Jira yet?) #1712034.  What I write below is all I've got for now, and
it's on the tracker; bug/patch traffic will followup to the tracker.

Reply-To set to mailman-users.

John Papapanos writes:

 > Here is a URL where I created a list for testing
 > mailman.
 > 
 > https://mail.bioacademy.gr/pipermail/testlist2/2007-May/thread.html

Thanks!  As usual, seeing is believing.

Wow!  That's amazingly broken.  What's I'm pretty sure is happening is
that the archive contains raw message content in a MIME QP or 
transfer-encoding, which cannot be properly decoded because the
Content-Transfer-Encoding header has been stripped (AFAIK it's
actually prohibited in HTTP, cf RFC 2616 section 19.5).

The reason that the Greek text-only comes out OK is that your browser
interprets the &#123; notation in the message body as SGML entities,
which are Unicode.

To fix this, you *will* have to patch your Mailman installation, or
get an alternative archiver (there are instructions for using MHonArc
in the FAQ).  There's not going to be a way to configure around this,
I'm pretty sure.

The patch may be trivial, but I won't be able to look at it for a day
or two.  Maybe Mark, Barry, or Tokio can.

From nat at busquelo.org  Thu May  3 17:35:41 2007
From: nat at busquelo.org (Nathaniel Rahav)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 11:35:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent Help! Need to repair my list
Message-ID: <463A014D.8030207@busquelo.org>


Greetings Mailman Users. I did something supremely dumb last night in a 
late night attempt to be efficient and inadvertently corrupted one of my 
lists.
I had 150 moderator requests on a particular list (all spam) and due to 
some strange unicode characters in one or two of the messages, I was 
receiving an error when trying to "delete all moderator requests marked 
defer".
So i went into the mailman directory on the server and did the following:
cd mailman/data
rm -f heldmsg-news*.pck

where 'news' is the name of my list.

Now when I go to the pending moderator requests page I get the following 
error... can somebody please help me repair my list ? thanks :


    Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5


      We're sorry, we hit a bug!

If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy 
of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what 
happened. Thanks!


        Traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 233, in main
    num += show_helds_overview(mlist, form)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 483, in show_helds_overview
    mlist.HandleRequest(id, mm_cfg.DISCARD)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 159, in HandleRequest
    forward, addr)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 345, in __handlepost
    syslog('vette', note)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Syslog.py", line 40, in write
    self.write_ex(kind, msg, args, kws)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Syslog.py", line 58, in write_ex
    logf.write(msg + '\n')
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 73, in write
    Logger.write(self, "%s %s" % (prefix, msg))
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 91, in write
    f.write(msg)
UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\x92' in position 157: ordinal not in range(128)




------------------------------------------------------------------------


        Python information:

Variable 	Value
sys.version 	2.3.3 (#1, May 7 2004, 10:31:40) [GCC 3.3.3 20040412 (Red 
Hat Linux 3.3.3-7)]
sys.executable 	/usr/bin/python
sys.prefix 	/usr
sys.exec_prefix 	/usr
sys.path 	/usr
sys.platform 	linux2

------------------------------------------------------------------------


        Environment variables:

Variable 	Value
HTTP_COOKIE 
news+admin=280200000069cf463946732800000031616333636266363339393035316438313136333962343865626231346431306339616166633331 

SERVER_SOFTWARE 	Apache/2.0.53 (Unix) PHP/4.3.10
SCRIPT_NAME 	/mailman/admindb
SERVER_SIGNATURE 	
Apache/2.0.53 (Unix) PHP/4.3.10 Server at www.busquelo.org Port 80

REQUEST_METHOD 	GET
HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE 	300
SERVER_PROTOCOL 	HTTP/1.1
QUERY_STRING 	
HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET 	ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7
HTTP_USER_AGENT 	Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; 
rv:1.8.0.11) Gecko/20070312 Firefox/1.5.0.11
HTTP_CONNECTION 	keep-alive
HTTP_REFERER 	http://www.busquelo.org/mailman/admin/news/members/add
SERVER_NAME 	www.busquelo.org
REMOTE_ADDR 	96.224.0.108
PATH_TRANSLATED 	/home/httpd/busquelo.org/news
SERVER_PORT 	80
SERVER_ADDR 	209.166.211.42
DOCUMENT_ROOT 	/home/httpd/busquelo.org
PYTHONPATH 	/usr/local/mailman
SCRIPT_FILENAME 	/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/admindb
SERVER_ADMIN 	s3ma4 at yahoo.com
HTTP_HOST 	www.busquelo.org
REQUEST_URI 	/mailman/admindb/news
HTTP_ACCEPT 
application/x-shockwave-flash,text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5 

GATEWAY_INTERFACE 	CGI/1.1
REMOTE_PORT 	50871
REMOTE_HOST 	pool-96-224-0-108.nycmny.east.verizon.net
HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING 	gzip,deflate
PATH_INFO 	/news


-- 
Nathaniel Rahav
Busquelo Productions LLC
205 W 15th St, NYC 10011
Tel: 917 299 0115
Fax: 212 645 5687
nat at busquelo.org

www.busquelo.org
www.soulnado.net
www.tropicofcancer.net


From donald.teed at gmail.com  Thu May  3 19:45:55 2007
From: donald.teed at gmail.com (D G Teed)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 14:45:55 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Counting messages that went to postfix queue
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705021052460484449b70f2@msapiro>
References: <dd4da0390705020910qbafc563ic0aa3aef60483097@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200705021052460484449b70f2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <dd4da0390705031045n72f10965w688d0f50e54445c0@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/2/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> This is in the log message in Mailman's smtp log. E.g., something like
>
> May 01 22:43:36 2007 (1570) <PC17602007050122432005312a821b07 at msapiro>
> smtp for 198 recips, completed in 1.390 seconds
>
> In this case, Mailman attempted delivery to the MTA for Message-Id:
> <PC17602007050122432005312a821b07 at msapiro> for 198 recipients.


Actually it was there.  Sorry about that.  I was looking at the wrong date
since I was analyzing this the next day...

Apr 30 15:43:24 2007 (2110) <
EF80AA494809654B9EE67C4DD650CC7807E443AE at exchange.mydomain> smtp for 1890
recips, completed in 2.463 seconds

(domain obscured to protect the innocent)

So it thought it was sending out 1890, but in postfix there are certainly
20 some missing.

This has nothing to do with delivery. This is an incoming message,
> almost certainly spam, with defective MIME structure that was
> discarded in its entirety.


OK, that is good to know.

Are you using SMTPDirect? Do you have any overrides in mm_cfg.py for
>
> DELIVERY_MODULE, SMTP_LOG_EVERY_MESSAGE or SMTP_LOG_EACH_FAILURE. Are
> there any log messages in 'smtp' (similar to my example above)?


These are the overrides I have:
DEFAULT_ARCHIVE = Off
DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE = 1
ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 0
VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes
DEFAULT_LIST_ADVERTISED = No
DEFAULT_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE = 60           # KB
DEFAULT_SUBJECT_PREFIX  = "[%(real_name)s] "
DEFAULT_MSG_HEADER = ""
DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER = ""
DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = No
DEFAULT_SEND_WELCOME_MSG = No
DEFAULT_FIRST_STRIP_REPLY_TO = Yes
DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 3
DEFAULT_UNSUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 1
PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE = days(7)

Nothing from the set you mentioned.  But anyway, as the lost log entry
was found, I don't have any issue in this regard I don't think.

>My hunch, is that there is some bad data in our mailing list subscription
> >which wasn't caught anywhere and has created this issue.  We are given
> >data from the Alumni Affairs department to inject into the mailing list.
> >It may contain odd things.  I've seen a '#' and single quote appear in
> >the mail subscriptions.
>
>
> This could be true. Try
>
> bin/list_members -i <listname>
>
> and/or
>
> bin/list_members <listname> | grep '[^-0-9a-zA-Z_+.@]'
>
> to narrow down the opportunities.
>

There is only one bad entry - with the quote inside of it.
I'll run the list through a checker before adding to lists
in the future.  The -i flag doesn't detect that problem,
which isn't too surprising since nothing stopped the address
from being added.

We are running a second list test soon and I'll see if
it works more robustly with data checks prior to subscribing the list
members.

Regards,

--Donald

From jdinkel4 at cox.net  Thu May  3 19:31:45 2007
From: jdinkel4 at cox.net (James Dinkel)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 12:31:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman is not "scrubbing" attachments in the
	archives
Message-ID: <463A1C81.80402@cox.net>

For some reason our archive web pages try to display attachments inline 
instead of displaying a link to download the attachment.  If I 
understand correctly, this process is called "scrubbing."  From what 
I've read the default behavior is to scrub attachments in the archives, 
but it is not on mine.  This is pretty much a fresh, standard mailman 
(version 2.1.5-9ubuntu4.1) install on Ubuntu Dapper.

Any help would be appreciated :)

From eino at utu.fi  Thu May  3 19:45:49 2007
From: eino at utu.fi (Eino Tuominen)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 20:45:49 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Troubleshooting posting of a message
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705030742010546eb2e2d03@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200705030742010546eb2e2d03@msapiro>
Message-ID: <463A1FCD.70605@utu.fi>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
> The log you posted previously seems to say the MTA delivering to
> Mailman is 'middleman'. I don't know anything at all about this MTA.
> Another hint in a prior post tells me it may have some programatic way
> (rather than aliases) for determining whether and how a post should be
> delivered to Mailman. How does this work and what does it look at?

I hop into this thread as this is of interest to me, too.

Middleman is a channel daemon for Sun Java System Messaging Server (you
may know it as iPlanet Messaging Server or PMDF). I wrote middleman to
integrate Mailman with SJSMS as there was now thorough solution
available. It's still a work in progress, but works for us at the
University of Turku.

Now, there was a bug in middleman and I've asked Rolf to send me some
debugging info to find where the problem is. Until then there's nothing
to do but speculate. But I doubt the problem is in Mailman, although
Rolf's description of the problem seems very odd, I must say.

If anyone is interested in the integration, you may ask me off list if
you wish.

-- 
  Eino Tuominen

From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Fri May  4 01:20:46 2007
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 17:20:46 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Opinions on domainkeys
Message-ID: <463A6E4E.9030501@pauahtun.org>

Hi All--
I just ran across this proposal from Yahoo:

http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys

I was examining headers from some yahoogroup email for reasons having to 
do with non-delivery when I ran across the domainkey header.

Has anyone on the list given any thought to it?  Is it a Good Thing(tm)? 
  Or yet another way for Yahoo to try to dominate the planet?

There's a qmail patch available, which is what I'm using, and I wonder 
if there would be Mailman integration issues?  I assume that an 
unmodified Mailman installation would ignore the domainkey header.

Thanks.

Metta,
Ivan
-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours


From msapiro at value.net  Fri May  4 02:09:05 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 17:09:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman is not "scrubbing" attachments in
	thearchives
In-Reply-To: <463A1C81.80402@cox.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602007050317090500781f8b0153@msapiro>

James Dinkel wrote:

>For some reason our archive web pages try to display attachments inline 
>instead of displaying a link to download the attachment.  If I 
>understand correctly, this process is called "scrubbing."  From what 
>I've read the default behavior is to scrub attachments in the archives, 
>but it is not on mine.  This is pretty much a fresh, standard mailman 
>(version 2.1.5-9ubuntu4.1) install on Ubuntu Dapper.


Mailman doesn't scrub all attachments. It scrubs most, but not those
with type text/plain and a specified character set.

What is the MIME Content-Type: header of the attachments that aren't
scrubbed?

Also note that uuencoded data in a text/plain part is not an
attachment, even though some MUAs treat it as one, and it won't be
scrubbed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Fri May  4 02:23:47 2007
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 09:23:47 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments - archives and encoding problems
In-Reply-To: <314196.68859.qm@web53909.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <314196.68859.qm@web53909.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <463A7D13.4030308@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

> Here is a URL where I created a list for testing
> mailman.
> 
> https://mail.bioacademy.gr/pipermail/testlist2/2007-May/thread.html

Your site use Mailman-2.1.5 which is way too old.  Upgrade to the 
current version (2.1.9) and try again.

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/

From msapiro at value.net  Fri May  4 02:42:57 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 17:42:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Counting messages that went to postfix queue
In-Reply-To: <dd4da0390705031045n72f10965w688d0f50e54445c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070503174257007875d45047@msapiro>

D G Teed wrote:
>
>Actually it was there.  Sorry about that.  I was looking at the wrong date
>since I was analyzing this the next day...
>
>Apr 30 15:43:24 2007 (2110) <
>EF80AA494809654B9EE67C4DD650CC7807E443AE at exchange.mydomain> smtp for 1890
>recips, completed in 2.463 seconds
>
>(domain obscured to protect the innocent)
>
>So it thought it was sending out 1890, but in postfix there are certainly
>20 some missing.


Assuming there is nothing in smtp-failure, Postfix appeared to accept
all 1890 recipients.


>These are the overrides I have:
>DEFAULT_ARCHIVE = Off
>DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE = 1
>ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 0
>VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes
>DEFAULT_LIST_ADVERTISED = No
>DEFAULT_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE = 60           # KB
>DEFAULT_SUBJECT_PREFIX  = "[%(real_name)s] "
>DEFAULT_MSG_HEADER = ""
>DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER = ""
>DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = No
>DEFAULT_SEND_WELCOME_MSG = No
>DEFAULT_FIRST_STRIP_REPLY_TO = Yes
>DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 3
>DEFAULT_UNSUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 1
>PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE = days(7)
>
>Nothing from the set you mentioned.  But anyway, as the lost log entry
>was found, I don't have any issue in this regard I don't think.


Right. My question was only related to the 'missing' log entry.


>There is only one bad entry - with the quote inside of it.
>I'll run the list through a checker before adding to lists
>in the future.  The -i flag doesn't detect that problem,
>which isn't too surprising since nothing stopped the address
>from being added.


Mailman does a few tests on addresses, but it could do better.


>We are running a second list test soon and I'll see if
>it works more robustly with data checks prior to subscribing the list
>members.


Given the mm_cfg.py overrides above (actually, some things that aren't
overridden and still have their default values), I can tell you that
Mailman will deliver to the 1890 recipients in four smtp transactions
with 500, 500, 500 and 390 recipients. The recipients will be grouped
by top level domain, but other than that are in an essentially random
order so without actually going through the 'chunking' process with
the actual addresses, we don't know in which group or where within
that group the 'bad' address appears.

I suppose it is possible that Postfix gets one of these chunks,
encounders the 'bad' address and drops the rest of the chunk, although
I would expect this to be reported back to Mailman and logged in
smtp-failure and also logged in Postfix's logs.

I suppose it is also possible and perhaps more likely that Postfix gets
the chunk with the bad address and does its own sort by domain stuff
for its delivery process and then drops a group with the 'bad'
address, although I would expect at least the 'bad' address to be
logged in Postfix's logs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri May  4 03:34:50 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 18:34:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent Help! Need to repair my list
In-Reply-To: <463A014D.8030207@busquelo.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705031834500484c3c1abf6@msapiro>

Nathaniel Rahav wrote:

>I had 150 moderator requests on a particular list (all spam) and due to 
>some strange unicode characters in one or two of the messages, I was 
>receiving an error when trying to "delete all moderator requests marked 
>defer".
>So i went into the mailman directory on the server and did the following:
>cd mailman/data
>rm -f heldmsg-news*.pck
>
>where 'news' is the name of my list.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.074.htp>
for the proper way to do this the next time.


>Now when I go to the pending moderator requests page I get the following 
>error... can somebody please help me repair my list ? thanks :
>
>
>    Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5
>
>
>      We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy 
>of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what 
>happened. Thanks!
>
>
>        Traceback:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
>    main()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 233, in main
>    num += show_helds_overview(mlist, form)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 483, in show_helds_overview
>    mlist.HandleRequest(id, mm_cfg.DISCARD)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 159, in HandleRequest
>    forward, addr)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 345, in __handlepost
>    syslog('vette', note)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Syslog.py", line 40, in write
>    self.write_ex(kind, msg, args, kws)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Syslog.py", line 58, in write_ex
>    logf.write(msg + '\n')
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 73, in write
>    Logger.write(self, "%s %s" % (prefix, msg))
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 91, in write
>    f.write(msg)
>UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\x92' in position 157: ordinal not in range(128)


What is happening is the held message requests are still in
lists/news/request.pck, but the data/heldmsg-news-*.pck files are
gone, so the admindb CGI is trying to remove the request and log the
discard. The logger throws the exception because of the non-ascii data
in the subject.

You can get past this by just removing lists/news/request.pck, but that
will also cause you to lose any new requests which may be OK. You can
look at the data/heldmsg-news-*.pck files with bin/dumpdb to see if
you might want any. You can also look at lists/news/request.pck with
bin/dumpdb to see if there might be anything of interest there before
removing it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri May  4 06:12:06 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 13:12:06 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Opinions on domainkeys
In-Reply-To: <463A6E4E.9030501@pauahtun.org>
References: <463A6E4E.9030501@pauahtun.org>
Message-ID: <87r6pxdy7d.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Ivan Van Laningham writes:

 > Has anyone on the list given any thought to it?  Is it a Good Thing(tm)? 
 >   Or yet another way for Yahoo to try to dominate the planet?

Yes.  Probably.  Yes, but don't let that stop you.

There have been a couple of threads on this over the past couple of
years, most recently earlier this year.  Search the archives of this
list and mailman-devel for "domainkeys".  There's also a page on it on
Barry's wiki, IIRC.

 > There's a qmail patch available, which is what I'm using, and I wonder 
 > if there would be Mailman integration issues?  I assume that an 
 > unmodified Mailman installation would ignore the domainkey header.

It doesn't.  It strips them, because some *local* MTAs will refuse
mail from Mailman if there's a stale domainkey header.  Mailman also
changes many posts in certain configurations, enough to break the
domainkey signature.  It was judged at the time that removing the
domainkey header was the most interoperable thing to do, although it
is now known to cause some problems with sites that require a valid
domainkey from certain partners.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri May  4 06:06:31 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 21:06:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Opinions on domainkeys
In-Reply-To: <463A6E4E.9030501@pauahtun.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705032106310812242334ab@msapiro>

Ivan Van Laningham wrote:

>I just ran across this proposal from Yahoo:
>
>http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
>
>I was examining headers from some yahoogroup email for reasons having to 
>do with non-delivery when I ran across the domainkey header.
>
>Has anyone on the list given any thought to it?  Is it a Good Thing(tm)? 
>  Or yet another way for Yahoo to try to dominate the planet?
>
>There's a qmail patch available, which is what I'm using, and I wonder 
>if there would be Mailman integration issues?  I assume that an 
>unmodified Mailman installation would ignore the domainkey header.

See the threads with subject "dkim-signature headers" at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2007-February/thread.html>.

Executive summary:

Mailman currently removes DomainKey-Signature: and DKIM-Signature:
headers from posts and from mail to the -owner address. This is
probably not the right thing to do. Beginning in Mailman 2.1.10, the
removal of these headers will be controlled by a mm_cfg.py option with
the default being to not remove them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From macek at fortech.cz  Fri May  4 10:56:41 2007
From: macek at fortech.cz (Tomas Macek)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 10:56:41 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderation bit off on explicitly selected users
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.99.0705041032030.9368@maca.fortech.cz>

Hi,
we are using mailman 2.1.5 with Postfix. On our announce-only list we have subscribed all of our employees. This list is fully moderated, so when someone posts, the message waits for approving. That's fine. Now I need to have some users (3 mail addresses) of the subscribes, that can post to the list without moderation and waiting for approving from the moderator. Where can I specify these adresses? I do not use the mailman's web interface.

According to the posts I have found on google, this should be done by modifying the moderation bit on each user, but I cannot find where it could be done in the config file? The config file is the one obtained from the ./config_list -o list.conf MyList.
When I specify this in

     owner = ['adr1 at ourdomain.cz', 'adr2 at ourdomain.cz', 'adr3 at ourdomain.cz']
     moderator = ['adr1 at ourdomain.cz', 'adr2 at ourdomain.cz', 'adr3 at ourdomain.cz']

it does not help, the message from adr1 at ourdomain.cz waits for approving.

I set up this further settings:
default_member_moderation = True
member_moderation_action = 0
generic_nonmember_action = 3

I tried to setup the config like here http://www.modwest.com/help/kb13-195.html, but I think this is the case I have now - any message that came to the list is moderated, without exceptions. But I want these exceptions - some people can post without moderation.

Can anyone help me? If you want to know any other options I have in the config, let me know please.

Many thanks, Tomas


From jpa3nos at yahoo.com  Fri May  4 14:00:48 2007
From: jpa3nos at yahoo.com (John Papapanos)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 05:00:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments - archives and encoding problems
In-Reply-To: <463A7D13.4030308@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <313842.47152.qm@web53910.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


--- Tokio Kikuchi <tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp> wrote:

> 
> Your site use Mailman-2.1.5 which is way too old. 
> Upgrade to the 
> current version (2.1.9) and try again.
> 
> -- 
> Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
> http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/
> 

ok that was it. Mailman 2.1.9 solves this problem.
My initial choice of mailman-2.1.5 was because it was
provided as a package from my linux dist (ubuntu
server).

After I built and configured mailman-2.1.9 from
scratch 
everything worked as expected. Also the URLs for the
attachments in the archives pages are not broken 
anymore.

Many thanks.




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From donald.teed at gmail.com  Fri May  4 16:19:10 2007
From: donald.teed at gmail.com (D G Teed)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 11:19:10 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Counting messages that went to postfix queue
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070503174257007875d45047@msapiro>
References: <dd4da0390705031045n72f10965w688d0f50e54445c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC176020070503174257007875d45047@msapiro>
Message-ID: <dd4da0390705040719t6ddfe39fx420d16d670f2b280@mail.gmail.com>

Hello again,

Another list, with 577 subscribers was sent out today.  I validated
the email addresses, removed one before subscribing with
an underscore in the domain name.  This time there are 6 addresses
which do not appear in /var/log/maillog (did a log rotate
just prior to the send to keep this easy to check).

For the check, I'm using this perl script findsender.pl:

http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/postfix/2002-08/att-0287/02-findsender.pl

I dump the subscribers reported by mailman to a temp file:

~mailman/bin/list_members mylistname | sort > /tmp/ott2

I check to see if each can be found in any sort of mention in maillog:

for person in `cat /tmp/ott2 `; do  ./findsender.pl $person /var/log/maillog
| grep 'Found 0' | cut -d' ' -f5 ; done

In case findsender.pl is flawed, I grep each of the ones it reports.

I guess my next step will be to try 2.1.9.  Are there any suggestions on how
to
safely do the upgrade on top of Redhat's 2.1.5 Mailman?  It is currently
a pilot with a few real lists, but I could always flip them back to
majordomo2 for awhile if needed.

Regards,

--Donald

From mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Fri May  4 17:42:03 2007
From: mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Meenal Pant)
Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 10:42:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman with Apache Tomcat
Message-ID: <463B544B.2010007@ncsa.uiuc.edu>

I have a server running Liferay using apache tomcat. I access the portal as:
https://abc.xyz.org/web/guest/home

Can I still install mailman and use it with apache as described in the
Mailman
Documentation.(http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/front.html)
?

Basically I want to access mailman webserver as :
https://abc.xyz.org/mailman/listinfo

Will this work or do I have to integrate mailman with Tomcat ? If yes,
then how to do so? 
Thanks
Meenal

From srb at umich.edu  Fri May  4 18:15:35 2007
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 12:15:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman with Apache Tomcat
In-Reply-To: <463B544B.2010007@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
References: <463B544B.2010007@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <A333ED493FFB1B540C96A450@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>

--On May 4, 2007 10:42:03 AM -0500 Meenal Pant <mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu> wrote:

> I have a server running Liferay using apache tomcat. I access the portal
> as: https://abc.xyz.org/web/guest/home
>
> Can I still install mailman and use it with apache as described in the
> Mailman
> Documentation.(http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/front.
> html) ?
>
> Basically I want to access mailman webserver as :
> https://abc.xyz.org/mailman/listinfo
>
> Will this work or do I have to integrate mailman with Tomcat ? If yes,
> then how to do so?

To which I reply:

I don't think you can do this, at least not easily.  It's possible to have 
Apache hand off stuff to Tomcat, but I don't know of a way to do the 
opposite.

To do the former, we use Apache 2's mod_proxy_ajp to hand off certain 
chunks of the URI space to Tomcat via a ProxyPass declaration in the Apache 
config.  You also have to configure Tomcat so that it doesn't listen on 
port 80, so that Apache can listen there.  This takes a little fiddling 
around with to get working, but not much.  Here's a chunk of our 
Tomcat-related part of the Apache config:

------ cut here ------
## Set up mod_proxy_ajp for tomcat integration
ProxyRequests Off

<Proxy *>
  Order deny,allow
  Allow from all
</Proxy>

<Location /xxx>
    ProxyPass ajp://localhost:8009/xxx
</Location>
------ cut here ------

You can have multiple <Location /path> blocks, but for your purposes, it 
might be sufficient to just pass off /web.

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From msapiro at value.net  Fri May  4 18:54:29 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 09:54:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Counting messages that went to postfix queue
In-Reply-To: <dd4da0390705040719t6ddfe39fx420d16d670f2b280@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007050409542905788f21789f@msapiro>

D G Teed wrote:
>
>Another list, with 577 subscribers was sent out today.  I validated
>the email addresses, removed one before subscribing with
>an underscore in the domain name.  This time there are 6 addresses
>which do not appear in /var/log/maillog (did a log rotate
>just prior to the send to keep this easy to check).
>
>For the check, I'm using this perl script findsender.pl:
>
>http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/postfix/2002-08/att-0287/02-findsender.pl
>
>I dump the subscribers reported by mailman to a temp file:
>
>~mailman/bin/list_members mylistname | sort > /tmp/ott2


Instead of the above, do

~mailman/bin/list_members -r -n enabled mylistname | sort > /tmp/ott2

This will list only non-digest members with delivery enabled.

Or perhaps this is not an issue. Is the number of lines in of /tmp/ott2
equal to the number of recips in Mailman's smtp log entry? If so, then
Mailman is delivering to all of them.


>I check to see if each can be found in any sort of mention in maillog:
>
>for person in `cat /tmp/ott2 `; do  ./findsender.pl $person /var/log/maillog
>| grep 'Found 0' | cut -d' ' -f5 ; done
>
>In case findsender.pl is flawed, I grep each of the ones it reports.


This is really a question for Postfix resources. If Mailman says it
delivers to 577 recips, and you can only find 571 of them in Postfix's
logs, I think this has to be a Postfix issue.


>I guess my next step will be to try 2.1.9.  Are there any suggestions on how
>to
>safely do the upgrade on top of Redhat's 2.1.5 Mailman?


I certainly don't want to discourage you from upgrading, but the only
change in the SMTPDirect.py delivery module since 2.1.5 had to do with
the address logged in the post log as the sender of the post. I doubt
an upgrade would make any difference.

That said, upgrading should be straightforward. Download to a new
directory, unpack and run configure. Here you need a few options, and
you may need some trial and error. You need to specify
--prefix=~mailman (For RedHat 2.1.5, I think that's
--prefix=/var/mailman). You also need the groups under which Postfix
and Apache invoke the wrappers. If you have Mailman generating Postfix
aliases automatically in ~mailman/data/aliases* with MTA='Postfix' in
mm_cfg.py, you would want --with-mail-gid=mailman, but you didn't
indicate that you had MTA='Postfix' in a prior post, so you may need
--with-mail-gid=nobody or possibly --with-mail-gid=postfix depending
on your postfix configuration. You also probably need
--with-cgi-gid=apache.

Then you just run 'make install' or if you want two steps, make
followed by make install and that should do it unless you start
getting group mismatch errors from the mail and/or cgi-bin wrappers in
which case, you rerun configure with the proper --with-*-gid options
(reported in the group mismatch error messages) and 'make install'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From donald.teed at gmail.com  Fri May  4 19:49:12 2007
From: donald.teed at gmail.com (D G Teed)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 14:49:12 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Counting messages that went to postfix queue
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007050409542905788f21789f@msapiro>
References: <dd4da0390705040719t6ddfe39fx420d16d670f2b280@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602007050409542905788f21789f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <dd4da0390705041049r95f26c7u1f9ae8d5e03c43c2@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/4/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Instead of the above, do
>
> ~mailman/bin/list_members -r -n enabled mylistname | sort > /tmp/ott2
>
> This will list only non-digest members with delivery enabled.
>
> Or perhaps this is not an issue. Is the number of lines in of /tmp/ott2
> equal to the number of recips in Mailman's smtp log entry? If so, then
> Mailman is delivering to all of them.


Ya, this isn't an issue.  No one can control their membership
in the list.  I subscribe people from database report of email addresses
just before the message goes out.  I tried your suggestion
anyway and the count is still 577.

This is really a question for Postfix resources. If Mailman says it
> delivers to 577 recips, and you can only find 571 of them in Postfix's
> logs, I think this has to be a Postfix issue.


Oh dear, that could be difficult to "prove" to Postfix peoples.
Is there a way to get more verbose logging of what mailman
is delivering other than what the mail server reports?
That way I could compare the two and see
which is dropping the ball.

--Donald

From msapiro at value.net  Fri May  4 19:53:13 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 10:53:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderation bit off on explicitly selected users
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.99.0705041032030.9368@maca.fortech.cz>
Message-ID: <PC17602007050410531301870669fd08@msapiro>

Tomas Macek wrote:

>we are using mailman 2.1.5 with Postfix. On our announce-only list we have subscribed all of our employees. This list is fully moderated, so when someone posts, the message waits for approving. That's fine. Now I need to have some users (3 mail addresses) of the subscribes, that can post to the list without moderation and waiting for approving from the moderator. Where can I specify these adresses? I do not use the mailman's web interface.
>
>According to the posts I have found on google, this should be done by modifying the moderation bit on each user, but I cannot find where it could be done in the config file?


It can be done, but it is tricky. You have to call the list method to
do it.


>The config file is the one obtained from the ./config_list -o list.conf MyList.
>When I specify this in
>
>     owner = ['adr1 at ourdomain.cz', 'adr2 at ourdomain.cz', 'adr3 at ourdomain.cz']
>     moderator = ['adr1 at ourdomain.cz', 'adr2 at ourdomain.cz', 'adr3 at ourdomain.cz']
>
>it does not help, the message from adr1 at ourdomain.cz waits for approving.


You made these addresses both owner and moderator which is redundant
and only means that they will receive notices for the owner/moderator.
It has nothing to do with posting. Go to the FAQ wizard
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and see FAQ's 3.27, 3.45
and 3,60 for more on this.


>I set up this further settings:
>default_member_moderation = True
>member_moderation_action = 0
>generic_nonmember_action = 3
>
>I tried to setup the config like here http://www.modwest.com/help/kb13-195.html, but I think this is the case I have now - any message that came to the list is moderated, without exceptions. But I want these exceptions - some people can post without moderation.


See FAQ 3.11 for our advice on this.


>Can anyone help me? If you want to know any other options I have in the config, let me know please.


Why can't you use the web interface? If you can't use the web
interface, you must be approving posts by email which means you know
how to use the Approved: header. The best way to post to an announce
list is to use the Approved: header with the list password in the
post. If you do this, the post will not be held.

If you allow certain, unmoderated members to post, anyone can post by
spoofing their address. See FAQ 3.11 and 3.34 for more on this.

If you still want to unmoderate a specific user, and you can't use the
web, you can put the following 3 lines in input to config_list.

from Mailman import mm_cfg
mlist.setMemberOption('user at example.com', mm_cfg.Moderate, 0)
del mm_cfg

You can put additional mlist.setMemberOption() lines between the first
one and the "del mm_cfg" line.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From donald.teed at gmail.com  Fri May  4 20:39:19 2007
From: donald.teed at gmail.com (D G Teed)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 15:39:19 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Counting messages that went to postfix queue
In-Reply-To: <dd4da0390705041049r95f26c7u1f9ae8d5e03c43c2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd4da0390705040719t6ddfe39fx420d16d670f2b280@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602007050409542905788f21789f@msapiro>
	<dd4da0390705041049r95f26c7u1f9ae8d5e03c43c2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dd4da0390705041139i59c839ceqd72246b2433b08da@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I believe a pattern has emerged with the failure cases.

I grep'ed for each of the 6 who failed in the output
from dumpdb for the list.

~mailman/bin/dumpdb /var/lib/mailman/lists/mylist/config.pck | grep
username at domain.ca

Each one of them had a mixed case letter in the username
before the domain part of the email address.

If my hunch is right, this would be a mailman bug.
I've seen Postfix deliver email with mixed case
in the user name no problem.  Mailman does store
the original version inside the config.pck file,
as well as the mapped to lower case version.

There are exactly 6 emails matching grep [A-Z]
on the list file I was given.

Regards,

--Donald

From msapiro at value.net  Fri May  4 20:54:35 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 11:54:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Counting messages that went to postfix queue
In-Reply-To: <dd4da0390705041049r95f26c7u1f9ae8d5e03c43c2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007050411543505000669fe57@msapiro>

D G Teed wrote:
>
>Oh dear, that could be difficult to "prove" to Postfix peoples.
>Is there a way to get more verbose logging of what mailman
>is delivering other than what the mail server reports?
>That way I could compare the two and see
>which is dropping the ball.


Yes, and no.

Go to
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>
and see the part at the end about adding

        self.__conn.set_debuglevel(1)

to the code in Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py. This addition (and
restarting Mailman) will log the entire SMTP transaction between
Mailman and Postfix.

BUT, in your case (RedHat with Mailman 2.1.5, you probably have Python
2.3.3 (or some 2.3.x) version. Prior to Python 2.4, this debug output
was written to stdout rather than stderr and that will cause other
problems, so if you are going to do this you need to first apply the
attached patch to your python Lib/smtplib.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From msapiro at value.net  Fri May  4 21:10:06 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 12:10:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Counting messages that went to postfix queue
In-Reply-To: <dd4da0390705041139i59c839ceqd72246b2433b08da@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705041210060703fa4bff05@msapiro>

D G Teed wrote:
>
>I believe a pattern has emerged with the failure cases.
>
>I grep'ed for each of the 6 who failed in the output
>from dumpdb for the list.
>
>~mailman/bin/dumpdb /var/lib/mailman/lists/mylist/config.pck | grep
>username at domain.ca
>
>Each one of them had a mixed case letter in the username
>before the domain part of the email address.
>
>If my hunch is right, this would be a mailman bug.


Why do you think it is a bug? Mixed case is allowed and may be
significant in the local part of email addresses. If you subscribe an
address with a mixed case local part to a Mailman list, Mailman stores
two addresses - a lower-cased address which is used as the key to
identify the member throught Mailman, and a case-preserved address
which is used as the delivery address. It would be wrong for Mailman
to deliver to the lower-cased address.


>I've seen Postfix deliver email with mixed case
>in the user name no problem.


And it should, but it seems that it may not be in this case, BUT are
you sure Postfix dropped these addresses. Maybe you just didn't see
them in the logs because you were looking for the lower-cased address
and what was logged was the mixed-case address.

If you go back to your original bin/list_members and add a '-p' option
to it, you will get the list of case-preserved addresses that Mailman
actually delivered to and you might find them all in Postfix.


>Mailman does store
>the original version inside the config.pck file,
>as well as the mapped to lower case version.


Yes, as I note above.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ricardo at tdwg.org  Fri May  4 21:08:08 2007
From: ricardo at tdwg.org (Ricardo Pereira)
Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 16:08:08 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring missing messages due to wrong permissions
 in mbox archive file
Message-ID: <463B8498.50100@tdwg.org>

    Hi all,

    I've moved a list from one server to another a while ago but left 
the list archive .mbox file with the wrong permissions. After a week I 
noticed several permission denied errors in Mailman logs.

    I have corrected the permissions but now the messages sent during 
that period weren't added to the list archives. How can I add the 
missing messages to the archive?

    Thanks in advance for any help.

    Cheers,

Ricardo


From msapiro at value.net  Fri May  4 21:19:40 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 12:19:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring missing messages due to wrong
	permissionsin mbox archive file
In-Reply-To: <463B8498.50100@tdwg.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705041219400703e7c09607@msapiro>

Ricardo Pereira wrote:
>
>    I have corrected the permissions but now the messages sent during 
>that period weren't added to the list archives. How can I add the 
>missing messages to the archive?


The messages should have been shunted and should be in the qfiles/shunt
directory. If so, running bin/unshunt should remove them from
qfiles/shunt and add them to the archives.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From donald.teed at gmail.com  Fri May  4 21:27:28 2007
From: donald.teed at gmail.com (D G Teed)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 16:27:28 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Counting messages that went to postfix queue
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705041210060703fa4bff05@msapiro>
References: <dd4da0390705041139i59c839ceqd72246b2433b08da@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200705041210060703fa4bff05@msapiro>
Message-ID: <dd4da0390705041227y37b16bcfkf5462e6381a29dff@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/4/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
>
> And it should, but it seems that it may not be in this case, BUT are
> you sure Postfix dropped these addresses. Maybe you just didn't see
> them in the logs because you were looking for the lower-cased address
> and what was logged was the mixed-case address.
>

I'm terribly sorry.  This isn't the first time I've forgotten to do my -i in
grep
when looking at mail logs.

I've checked the mail logs again against the -p version of the list_members
output and now I see there are no missing cases in either of our tests!
Great.

Mailman is great!  And so are you guys for helping me track down
my own blind spot.

Regards,

--Donald

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri May  4 21:36:04 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 14:36:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Counting messages that went to postfix queue
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007050409542905788f21789f@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007050409542905788f21789f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240800c2613b688489@[10.0.1.199]>

On 5/4/07, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  This is really a question for Postfix resources. If Mailman says it
>  delivers to 577 recips, and you can only find 571 of them in Postfix's
>  logs, I think this has to be a Postfix issue.

Or a problem with the tool you're using to look through the log 
files, or a problem with the syslog program that postfix is sending 
the log data to, etc....

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From msapiro at value.net  Sat May  5 00:20:48 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 15:20:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate Emails - but only if first email has
	HTMLor stationary
In-Reply-To: <002501c78e3a$d21027f0$7301a8c0@INSPIRON>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705041520480046bef06ffe@msapiro>

Lisa Phillips wrote:
>
>Thank you for responding.  I can provide the messages sent to the list, but
>not the one as sent to the list.  I am also going to see if the first one
>caused some bounces from some of the members (they usually always do), and
>I'll send that in a separate email.  Please let me know if you have any
>suggestions.


I see from the messages, that this is a cPanel Mailman (2.1.9-cp1). I
don't think this duplication is a cPanel issue per se (see below).
Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

There was a somewhat different cPanel issue I worked on a while back
that caused duplication of images within an email as opposed to
duplicate messages, and that cPanel bug was triggered by the addition
of msg_footer to the message. See
<http://forums.cpanel.net/showthread.php?t=61603> (requires
registration) for my (unanswered) report of this, but I don't think
that that is this issue.

Thank you for including the two messages. That is very helpful.

The MIME structure of the first message is

multipart/mixed
    multipart/alternative
        text/plain
        text/html
    image/gif
    image/jpeg
    text/plain

This structure is not really correct, but it may have been munged by
Mailman's content filtering in some way. Given what this actually is
with the gif and jpeg images referenced by the html via Content-ID:, I
think the actual message structure should be

multipart/mixed
    multipart/alternative
        text/plain
        multipart/related
            text/html
            image/gif
            image/jpeg
    text/plain

I don't think this is related to the duplication however.

The second message appears to be a newly created message based on the
first message. While many of the headers of the first message are
copied verbatim in the second message, and the content of most of the
elemental parts is the same, several things stand out.

The Message-ID: is different. The From: header has had the real name
removed from the email address as you noted originally. The MIME
boundary is different. Parts are added. The MIME structure is
different. It is

multipart/mixed
    text/plain
    text/html
    image/gif
    image/jpeg
    application/octet-stream
    text/plain
    text/plain

The application/octet-stream part appears to be the msg_footer from the
first message, then there is an added text/plain part with
filename="GWAVADAT.TXT" and contents

AdmID:71370CBC7758B07A9A4CF8C0F77AE198

followed by the new msg_footer.

The message contains an

X-Mailer: GWAVA Archive Mailer

header. The Received: headers indicate it came back to the list via

Received: from [199.227.27.194] (port=47532
 helo=FSBMAIL.FIRSTSOUTHERNBANK.COM)
 by enzo.elinuxservers.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63)
 (envelope-from <KSmith-Bonilla at hialeahfl.gov>) id 1Hiwns-0008Aw-Ij
 for fisaalerts at fisanet.com; Tue, 01 May 2007 11:10:21 -0700
Received: from D9YTRC51 ([10.85.56.72])
 by FSBMAIL.FIRSTSOUTHERNBANK.COM with ESMTP;
 Tue, 01 May 2007 14:09:57 -0400

GWAVA is GroupWise anti-virus, anti-spam, archiving, etc.

Thus, I think what's happening is that one of the list members
addresses goes to GroupWise at FIRSTSOUTHERNBANK.COM and this
GroupWise is munging the message a bit and resending it back to the
list where it is resent to the members. Why this only seems to happen
with some list mail, I don't know.


>It seems like there should be some setting that would prevent users from
>receiving html formatted emails, which I think is what happening for the
>first email.  Let me know what you think, and thanks a million for your
>help.


There is no list member setting to prevent receiving HTML email. The
list has content filtering options that can be used to remove HTML and
images from all posts so no one receives any HTML.

For example, if you set filter_content On and put

multipart
message/rfc822
text/plain

in pass_mime_types, only text/plain parts will be passed through to the
list.


>Oh, one more question.. should I just reply to you on this, or the
>entire list?


Replying to the list or copying the list in a reply-all is normally the
way to reply.

The exceptions to this (this might have been one of them) are when the
reply contains emails or whatever with personal or domain information
that you don't want in a public archive and when the detailed
information in the reply (such as copies of emails) is very large.

In this case, your copy to the list was held I think because it
exceeded the maximum post size. It may yet be approved unless you
delete it first (instructions were in the 'held' notice you should
have received).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From donald.teed at gmail.com  Sat May  5 01:57:28 2007
From: donald.teed at gmail.com (D G Teed)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 20:57:28 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman with Apache Tomcat
In-Reply-To: <463B544B.2010007@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
References: <463B544B.2010007@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <dd4da0390705041657r5053c028o17029fd8ed887819@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

If you are running Tomcat and no apache, then I'd say
don't bother.  Get the plain apache and install it,
it will be up and running in minutes rather than days
to figure out how to make tomcat run plain old HTML
with a handful of CGIs.  Use the right tool for the job.
Tomcat is designed to run Java web applications.

--Donald

On 5/4/07, Meenal Pant <mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
> I have a server running Liferay using apache tomcat. I access the portal
> as:
> https://abc.xyz.org/web/guest/home
>
> Can I still install mailman and use it with apache as described in the
> Mailman
> Documentation.(
> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/front.html)
> ?
>
> Basically I want to access mailman webserver as :
> https://abc.xyz.org/mailman/listinfo
>
> Will this work or do I have to integrate mailman with Tomcat ? If yes,
> then how to do so?
> Thanks
> Meenal
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/donald.teed%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>

From msapiro at value.net  Sat May  5 02:59:06 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 17:59:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman with Apache Tomcat
In-Reply-To: <dd4da0390705041657r5053c028o17029fd8ed887819@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070504175906006226d57144@msapiro>

D G Teed wrote:
>
>If you are running Tomcat and no apache, then I'd say
>don't bother.  Get the plain apache and install it,
>it will be up and running in minutes rather than days
>to figure out how to make tomcat run plain old HTML
>with a handful of CGIs.  Use the right tool for the job.
>Tomcat is designed to run Java web applications.


Probably good advice, but see below.


>On 5/4/07, Meenal Pant <mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>>
>> I have a server running Liferay using apache tomcat. I access the portal
>> as:
>> https://abc.xyz.org/web/guest/home
>>
>> Can I still install mailman and use it with apache as described in the
>> Mailman
>> Documentation.(
>> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/front.html)
>> ?
>>
>> Basically I want to access mailman webserver as :
>> https://abc.xyz.org/mailman/listinfo
>>
>> Will this work or do I have to integrate mailman with Tomcat ? If yes,
>> then how to do so?


There is problem with the above. If you install Apache for Mailman, you
can't access Apache at https://abc.xyz.org/ because Tomcat is
listening on that https port (443). You will have to

- use a port other than 443 or http (not https) scheme for Mailman or

- use a different domain name/IP address for Mailman or

- if possible arrange for Tomcat to pass https://abc.xyz.org/mailman/
requests to Apache.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rayj_9 at hotmail.com  Sat May  5 18:49:25 2007
From: rayj_9 at hotmail.com (rayan jo rachwan)
Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 19:49:25 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 39, Issue 13
In-Reply-To: <mailman.32.1178359213.26082.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <BAY131-F391BFB1012FEEB9B0EBD06A9470@phx.gbl>

plz stop sending me mails
thank you

_________________________________________________________________
Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


From beech at alaskaparadise.com  Sun May  6 03:15:31 2007
From: beech at alaskaparadise.com (Beech Rintoul)
Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 17:15:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems, virtual-mailman not created
Message-ID: <200705051715.34012.beech@alaskaparadise.com>

I just installed Mailman for the first time and virtual-mailman is not 
being created. I'm using postfix and have the following in mm_cf.py:

MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postmap'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['domain1.org', 'domain2.com']

Running "genaliases" created the aliases db, but there is no 
virtual_mailman or db.

The virtual domains work and receive mail. What do I do next? Trying 
to create a new list in those domains resulted in not found errors.

Beech
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Beech Rintoul - Port Maintainer - beech at alaskaparadise.com
/"\   ASCII Ribbon Campaign  | FreeBSD Since 4.x
\ / - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail   | http://www.freebsd.org
 X  - NO Word docs in e-mail | Latest Release:
/ \  - http://www.freebsd.org/releases/6.2R/announce.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From msapiro at value.net  Sun May  6 07:12:48 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 22:12:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems, virtual-mailman not created
In-Reply-To: <200705051715.34012.beech@alaskaparadise.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705052212480234425cfcfa@msapiro>

Beech Rintoul wrote:

>I just installed Mailman for the first time and virtual-mailman is not 
>being created. I'm using postfix and have the following in mm_cf.py:
>
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postalias'
>POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postmap'
>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['domain1.org', 'domain2.com']
>
>Running "genaliases" created the aliases db, but there is no 
>virtual_mailman or db.


With the above settings, virtual-mailman* will not be created until
there is at least one list in domain1.org or domain2.org


>The virtual domains work and receive mail. What do I do next? Trying 
>to create a new list in those domains resulted in not found errors.


You also need

add_virtualhost('webdomain1.org', 'domain1.org')
add_virtualhost('webdomain2.org', 'domain2.org')

in order to create lists in those domains. If one of these sets is
DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST from Defaults.py, then you
don't need to repeat it. OTOH, if the Defaults.py settings for
DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST are not correct, then in
mm_cfg.py you need

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.example.com'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'example.com'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

followed by add_virtualhost() for the remaining hosts. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From beech at alaskaparadise.com  Mon May  7 01:08:32 2007
From: beech at alaskaparadise.com (Beech Rintoul)
Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 15:08:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems, virtual-mailman not created
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705052212480234425cfcfa@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200705052212480234425cfcfa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200705061508.34714.beech@alaskaparadise.com>

On Saturday 05 May 2007, Mark Sapiro said:
> Beech Rintoul wrote:
> >I just installed Mailman for the first time and virtual-mailman is
> > not being created. I'm using postfix and have the following in
> > mm_cf.py:
> >
> >MTA = 'Postfix'
> >POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postalias'
> >POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postmap'
> >POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['domain1.org', 'domain2.com']
> >
> >Running "genaliases" created the aliases db, but there is no
> >virtual_mailman or db.
>
> With the above settings, virtual-mailman* will not be created until
> there is at least one list in domain1.org or domain2.org
>
> >The virtual domains work and receive mail. What do I do next?
> > Trying to create a new list in those domains resulted in not
> > found errors.
>
> You also need
>
> add_virtualhost('webdomain1.org', 'domain1.org')
> add_virtualhost('webdomain2.org', 'domain2.org')

Thanks, that's what I was missing.
>
> in order to create lists in those domains. If one of these sets is
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST from Defaults.py, then you
> don't need to repeat it. OTOH, if the Defaults.py settings for
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST are not correct, then in
> mm_cfg.py you need
>
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.example.com'
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'example.com'
> VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>
> followed by add_virtualhost() for the remaining hosts. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.h
>tp>.

It still didn't create the files. But, I did a touch virtual-mailman 
and it then populated the file and created the db. It may be a 
problem with our install, I'll talk to the maintainer.


Thanks for the response,

Beech


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Beech Rintoul - Port Maintainer - beech at alaskaparadise.com
/"\   ASCII Ribbon Campaign  | FreeBSD Since 4.x
\ / - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail   | http://www.freebsd.org
 X  - NO Word docs in e-mail | Latest Release:
/ \  - http://www.freebsd.org/releases/6.2R/announce.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl  Mon May  7 12:44:20 2007
From: R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl (Rolf E. Sonneveld)
Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 12:44:20 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Troubleshooting posting of a message (SOLVED)
In-Reply-To: <463A1FCD.70605@utu.fi>
References: <PC1760200705030742010546eb2e2d03@msapiro> <463A1FCD.70605@utu.fi>
Message-ID: <463F0304.8070202@sonnection.nl>

Eino Tuominen wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>   
>> The log you posted previously seems to say the MTA delivering to
>> Mailman is 'middleman'. I don't know anything at all about this MTA.
>> Another hint in a prior post tells me it may have some programatic way
>> (rather than aliases) for determining whether and how a post should be
>> delivered to Mailman. How does this work and what does it look at?
>>     
>
> I hop into this thread as this is of interest to me, too.
>
> Middleman is a channel daemon for Sun Java System Messaging Server (you
> may know it as iPlanet Messaging Server or PMDF). I wrote middleman to
> integrate Mailman with SJSMS as there was now thorough solution
> available. It's still a work in progress, but works for us at the
> University of Turku.
>
> Now, there was a bug in middleman and I've asked Rolf to send me some
> debugging info to find where the problem is. Until then there's nothing
> to do but speculate. But I doubt the problem is in Mailman, although
> Rolf's description of the problem seems very odd, I must say.
>   

the patched version of middleman solved the mailman problems I reported. 
It runs fine now. Many thanks for the help of the list, especially the 
help of Mark Sapiro. My understanding of Mailman has much improved!

> If anyone is interested in the integration, you may ask me off list if
> you wish.
>   

I wonder if there's an interest in documenting the integration of 
mailman with Sun Java System Messaging Server, as in chapter 6 of the 
Gnu Mailman installation manual 
(http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/index.html)? I'm 
volunteering, but on the other hand, the README file written by Eino for 
the middleman interface code describes the integration process very well.

/rolf

From john at wa9als.com  Mon May  7 13:45:36 2007
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 07:45:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve held msg by replying
Message-ID: <006c01c7909d$3bd94b30$0201a8c0@wa9als>

I can't find it in the FAQ or listname-request help dialogue, but I thought 
there's a way to approve held messages by replying to the notice that I have 
held messages?  Tnx - John

From msapiro at value.net  Mon May  7 16:40:41 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 07:40:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve held msg by replying
In-Reply-To: <006c01c7909d$3bd94b30$0201a8c0@wa9als>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705070740410109e5061776@msapiro>

John Fleming wrote:
>
>I can't find it in the FAQ or listname-request help dialogue, but I thought 
>there's a way to approve held messages by replying to the notice that I have 
>held messages?  Tnx - John

There is no way to approve messaged by replying to the summary "'nn
<listname> moderator request(s) waiting" message.

If the lists General Options->admin_immed_notify is set to Yes, the
notification of an individual held message has 3 parts:

- a text/plain part with a summary of the list name, From:, Subject:
and held reason,

- a message/rfc822 part containing the actual held message and

- a message/rfc822 part containing a message From: the list-request
address with Subject: confirm <token> and with body

 If you reply to this message, keeping the Subject: header intact,
 Mailman will discard the held message.  Do this if the message is
 spam.  If you reply to this message and include an Approved: header
 with the list password in it, the message will be approved for posting
 to the list.  The Approved: header can also appear in the first line
 of the body of the reply.

So, if you reply to the message in part 3 (or send any message to the
list-request address with 'confirm <the actual token>' as the
subject), the original message will be accepted or discarded depending
on the presense or absense of a valid Approved: <admin or moderator
password> header in the reply.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Mon May  7 16:48:31 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 09:48:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not Moderating a Moderator's Posting
Message-ID: <200705071448.l47EmVus011557@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

I have a Mailman 2.1.9 list where the membership is re-built from
an external source.  The list contains all of the occupants of a
certain building who list an e-mail address in the Human Resources
Database.  I assumed that anyone on the list should be able to post
to the list, but the building IT administrator wanted all of the
postings to be moderated.  We accomplished this via

     default_member_moderation = 1

We added some moderator e-mail addresses via the administrative
web page, and we set a moderator password.  There is one minor
problem:  the moderators are set to those persons whom we want to
be able to post to the list (e.g., the building manager).  But those
moderators are subscribed to the list, so when they post, their
"moderation" flag is seen, and their postings are moderated.  I assume
that the code does not check to see that the post is coming from a
moderator and thus does not have to be moderated.  Is this a
bug/design deficiency/characteristic that can be fixed in a future
release?  I did not see anything during a quick search of
Mailman-developers archives.

Note that I cannot easily turn off the "moderated" bit on the
moderators' e-mail addresses, as the list is rebuilt nightly from the
HR Database.

P.S. I was once watching NASA TV during a shuttle mission, and one of
     the astronauts could not get a camera working.  Houston told the
     astronaut to power-cycle the camera.  That worked.  The question
     arose whether that was a bug or a feature.  A few minutes later
     Houston responded, "It is a characteristic".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon May  7 16:51:27 2007
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 16:51:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not Moderating a Moderator's Posting
In-Reply-To: <200705071448.l47EmVus011557@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
References: <200705071448.l47EmVus011557@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <20070507145127.GE19769@charite.de>

* Barry Finkel <b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov>:

> Note that I cannot easily turn off the "moderated" bit on the
> moderators' e-mail addresses, as the list is rebuilt nightly from the
> HR Database.

How do you rebuild the list?
Do you use symc_members? Or do you remove everybody and add them later?
-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                    send no mail to plonk at charite.de

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon May  7 17:00:23 2007
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 17:00:23 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not Moderating a Moderator's Posting
In-Reply-To: <20070507145127.GE19769@charite.de>
References: <200705071448.l47EmVus011557@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
	<20070507145127.GE19769@charite.de>
Message-ID: <20070507150023.GF19769@charite.de>

* Ralf Hildebrandt <Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de>:
> * Barry Finkel <b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov>:
> 
> > Note that I cannot easily turn off the "moderated" bit on the
> > moderators' e-mail addresses, as the list is rebuilt nightly from the
> > HR Database.
> 
> How do you rebuild the list?
> Do you use symc_members? Or do you remove everybody and add them later?

I meant to say sync_members of course...

We sync our lists like this:
bin/sync_members -w=no -g=no -d=no -a=no -f file_with_membership_addresses.txt name_of_list

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                    send no mail to plonk at charite.de

From jdinkel4 at cox.net  Mon May  7 17:24:16 2007
From: jdinkel4 at cox.net (James Dinkel)
Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 10:24:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman is not "scrubbing" attachments in
	thearchives
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007050317090500781f8b0153@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007050317090500781f8b0153@msapiro>
Message-ID: <463F44A0.1050104@cox.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> James Dinkel wrote:
>
>   
>> For some reason our archive web pages try to display attachments inline 
>> instead of displaying a link to download the attachment.  If I 
>> understand correctly, this process is called "scrubbing."  From what 
>> I've read the default behavior is to scrub attachments in the archives, 
>> but it is not on mine.  This is pretty much a fresh, standard mailman 
>> (version 2.1.5-9ubuntu4.1) install on Ubuntu Dapper.
>>     
>
>
> Mailman doesn't scrub all attachments. It scrubs most, but not those
> with type text/plain and a specified character set.
>
> What is the MIME Content-Type: header of the attachments that aren't
> scrubbed?
>
> Also note that uuencoded data in a text/plain part is not an
> attachment, even though some MUAs treat it as one, and it won't be
> scrubbed.
>
>   
They have all been pdf files.  Will it not scrub pdf files?  I don't 
exactly know what the

"MIME Content-Type:" is.

James


From msapiro at value.net  Mon May  7 17:43:55 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 08:43:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not Moderating a Moderator's Posting
In-Reply-To: <200705071448.l47EmVus011557@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705070843550703e50619d6@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:
>
>We added some moderator e-mail addresses via the administrative
>web page, and we set a moderator password.  There is one minor
>problem:  the moderators are set to those persons whom we want to
>be able to post to the list (e.g., the building manager).  But those
>moderators are subscribed to the list, so when they post, their
>"moderation" flag is seen, and their postings are moderated.  I assume
>that the code does not check to see that the post is coming from a
>moderator and thus does not have to be moderated.  Is this a
>bug/design deficiency/characteristic that can be fixed in a future
>release?  I did not see anything during a quick search of
>Mailman-developers archives.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.060.htp>.

The moderator list attribute is only a list of addresses which will be
sent certain notifications. This is the design of current Mailman.

In some future Mailman beyond 2.2, there may be a true user database
and this may change.


>Note that I cannot easily turn off the "moderated" bit on the
>moderators' e-mail addresses, as the list is rebuilt nightly from the
>HR Database.


See Ralf's replies regarding sync_members.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rbartholomew at mcclatchyinteractive.com  Mon May  7 17:44:47 2007
From: rbartholomew at mcclatchyinteractive.com (Robin Bartholomew)
Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 11:44:47 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Temporarily Diable Entire List
Message-ID: <463F496F.7050408@mcclatchyinteractive.com>

I want to make sure some lists are definitely not used before deleting 
them.  To temporarily disable a list, is moving the list directory 
(/home/mailman/lists/list_name) to a temporary directory an acceptable 
solution or is there a better way to go about this?

Thanks you,

-- 
Robin D. Bartholomew
McClatchy Interactive
(919) 861-1243
AIM:rbartmi


From msapiro at value.net  Mon May  7 17:57:51 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 08:57:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman is not "scrubbing" attachments
	inthearchives
In-Reply-To: <463F44A0.1050104@cox.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705070857510171d385cede@msapiro>

James Dinkel wrote:

>They have all been pdf files.  Will it not scrub pdf files?  I don't 
>exactly know what the
>
>"MIME Content-Type:" is.

For purposes of the scrubber, "MIME Content-Type:" is the value of the
Content-Type: header of the respective MIME message part.

PDF attachments should be scrubbed. They normally are Content-Type:
application/pdf, but any Content-Type: other than text/plain should
result in their being scrubbed in the archive.

Are other attachment types being scrubbed (or are PDF attachments the
only ones you get on your list)?

Can you provide a URL of an archive message that has this problem?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon May  7 18:08:54 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 09:08:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Temporarily Diable Entire List
In-Reply-To: <463F496F.7050408@mcclatchyinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705070908540484ad2277ba@msapiro>

Robin Bartholomew wrote:

>I want to make sure some lists are definitely not used before deleting 
>them.  To temporarily disable a list, is moving the list directory 
>(/home/mailman/lists/list_name) to a temporary directory an acceptable 
>solution or is there a better way to go about this?


If you have an MTA that programmatically determines how to deliver mail
to the various list addresses based on something in
/home/mailman/lists/list_name rather than using aliases, then moving
/home/mailman/lists/list_name elsewhere is effectively deleting the
list (but not the archives) with backup.

If this is what you want, then that's a perfectly good approach.

If you have MTA aliases and you don't remove them, there won't be much
difference. In this case, the MTA will try to deliver to a list
address, and the mail wrapper/script will report a non-existent list
back to the MTA which in turn should report that back to the sender.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Mon May  7 19:05:18 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 12:05:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Temporarily Diable Entire List
In-Reply-To: <463F496F.7050408@mcclatchyinteractive.com>
References: <463F496F.7050408@mcclatchyinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <7AEF2793-82C7-41AB-910D-CA023EA98582@goldmark.org>

On May 7, 2007, at 10:44 AM, Robin Bartholomew wrote:

> I want to make sure some lists are definitely not used before deleting
> them.  To temporarily disable a list, is moving the list directory
> (/home/mailman/lists/list_name) to a temporary directory an acceptable
> solution or is there a better way to go about this?

I would just change the alias for the list to go to some auto- 
responder or to the list owner.  So instead of having something like

  listname:   "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post listname"

just have it be something like

  listname: "|/path/to/some/autoresponder"

or

  listname:  owner-listname

You can do similar things with the request-listname address.

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Mon May  7 20:15:48 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 13:15:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not Moderating a Moderator's Posting
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Ralf Hildebrandt <Ralf.Hildebrandt@charite.de>'
	dated: Mon, 7 May 2007 17:00:23 +0200
Message-ID: <200705071815.l47IFmQj016958@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

I wrote:

>> Note that I cannot easily turn off the "moderated" bit on the
>> moderators' e-mail addresses, as the list is rebuilt nightly from the
>> HR Database.

and Ralf Hildebrand replied:

> How do you rebuild the list?
> Do you use symc_members? Or do you remove everybody and add them later?
>
>I meant to say sync_members of course...
>
>We sync our lists like this:
>bin/sync_members -w=no -g=no -d=no -a=no -f file_with_membership_addresses.txt name_of_list

I use 

     ./remove_members --all --nouserack --noadminack $destfile
     ./add_members -w n -r $destdir/$destfile

because I did not know about sync_members when I wrote my script.  The
posting in the archives I was reviewing did not mention sync_members.

I have a complication, with which I have to contend - besides the
dynamic list XXX built from the HR Database, I can have a static file
XXXstatic, which contains other subscribers that are not in the HR
Database.  My script processes this XXXstatic file when it processes
the XXX file.  To use sync_members I will have to combine the XXX and
XXXstatic files, and then use the combined file with sync_members.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon May  7 20:31:36 2007
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 20:31:36 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not Moderating a Moderator's Posting
In-Reply-To: <200705071815.l47IFmQj016958@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
References: <200705071815.l47IFmQj016958@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <20070507183136.GC28599@charite.de>

* Barry Finkel <b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov>:

> >We sync our lists like this:
> >bin/sync_members -w=no -g=no -d=no -a=no -f file_with_membership_addresses.txt name_of_list
> 
> I use 
> 
>      ./remove_members --all --nouserack --noadminack $destfile
>      ./add_members -w n -r $destdir/$destfile
> 
> because I did not know about sync_members when I wrote my script.  The
> posting in the archives I was reviewing did not mention sync_members.

Well, now you know :)
 
> I have a complication, with which I have to contend - besides the
> dynamic list XXX built from the HR Database, I can have a static file
> XXXstatic, which contains other subscribers that are not in the HR
> Database.  My script processes this XXXstatic file when it processes
> the XXX file.  To use sync_members I will have to combine the XXX and
> XXXstatic files, and then use the combined file with sync_members.

Correct. Not a big deal, though.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                    send no mail to plonk at charite.de

From icomfort at rescomp.stanford.edu  Mon May  7 21:17:59 2007
From: icomfort at rescomp.stanford.edu (Ian Ward Comfort)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 12:17:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not Moderating a Moderator's Posting
In-Reply-To: <200705071815.l47IFmQj016958@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
References: <200705071815.l47IFmQj016958@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <16E01CA1-65E2-4CF2-B11F-D47F8A7C9DEC@rescomp.stanford.edu>

On May 7, 2007, at 11:15 AM, Barry Finkel wrote:
> Ralf Hildebrand replied:
>> We sync our lists like this:
>> bin/sync_members -w=no -g=no -d=no -a=no -f  
>> file_with_membership_addresses.txt name_of_list
>
> I use
>
>      ./remove_members --all --nouserack --noadminack $destfile
>      ./add_members -w n -r $destdir/$destfile
>
> because I did not know about sync_members when I wrote my script.   
> The posting in the archives I was reviewing did not mention  
> sync_members.
>
> I have a complication, with which I have to contend - besides the  
> dynamic list XXX built from the HR Database, I can have a static  
> file XXXstatic, which contains other subscribers that are not in  
> the HR Database.  My script processes this XXXstatic file when it  
> processes the XXX file.  To use sync_members I will have to combine  
> the XXX and XXXstatic files, and then use the combined file with  
> sync_members.

cat XXX XXXstatic | ~mailman/bin/sync_members -w=no -g=no -d=no -a=no  
-f - name_of_list

perhaps?

?IWC


From jrlamar at owu.edu  Mon May  7 23:19:57 2007
From: jrlamar at owu.edu (Jason LaMar)
Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 17:19:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Random duplicate message to subscribers
Message-ID: <C265103D.2FAF6%jrlamar@owu.edu>

We have a fairly large list (more than 26,000 subscribers), and recently it
appears a very small fraction of the subscribers have started receiving
duplicate messages -- sometimes as many as a dozen or more. This behavior
just started happening within the last couple of weeks, and it seems to only
impact a minute and random subset of the subscribers. Anyone seen similar
behavior or have suggestions on the most effective way to troubleshoot this?

We're running version 2.1.5 on Red Hat Linux ES, and we've also had a few
runaway Python processes in the last couple of months that forced us to
restart the server. Perhaps this is all related and we just need to upgrade
to 2.1.9. Anybody happen to have a pre-built RPM for RHEL 4 with the latest
release?

Jason

_________________________

Jason LaMar
Director of Information Services
Ohio Wesleyan University | Delaware, OH 43015
IP Tel: 740-368-3131 | AIM/Yahoo IM: jasonrlamar
Fax: 740-368-3272 | Web: http://www.owu.edu/



From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon May  7 23:31:23 2007
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 23:31:23 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Random duplicate message to subscribers
In-Reply-To: <C265103D.2FAF6%jrlamar@owu.edu>
References: <C265103D.2FAF6%jrlamar@owu.edu>
Message-ID: <20070507213123.GI28599@charite.de>

* Jason LaMar <jrlamar at owu.edu>:
> We have a fairly large list (more than 26,000 subscribers), and recently it
> appears a very small fraction of the subscribers have started receiving
> duplicate messages -- sometimes as many as a dozen or more. This behavior
> just started happening within the last couple of weeks, and it seems to only
> impact a minute and random subset of the subscribers. Anyone seen similar
> behavior or have suggestions on the most effective way to troubleshoot this?

Analyse if these messages are truly identical. Meaning: Save them,
diff them. Look at the differences.

In some cases mail gets stuck between a virusscanner gateway and an
MTA, and although the virussanner gateways returns a tempfail, it may
STILL forward the mail -- thus leading in a massive multiplication of mail.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                    send no mail to plonk at charite.de

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Mon May  7 23:37:44 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 14:37:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Random duplicate message to subscribers
In-Reply-To: <C265103D.2FAF6%jrlamar@owu.edu>
References: <C265103D.2FAF6%jrlamar@owu.edu>
Message-ID: <200705072135.l47LYhbb023965@unreal.eroded.org>

Jason LaMar wrote:
>We have a fairly large list (more than 26,000 subscribers), and recently it
>appears a very small fraction of the subscribers have started receiving
>duplicate messages -- sometimes as many as a dozen or more. This behavior
>just started happening within the last couple of weeks, and it seems to only
>impact a minute and random subset of the subscribers. Anyone seen similar
>behavior or have suggestions on the most effective way to troubleshoot this?

There have been a number of discussions regarding similar things in 
the last few months. IIRC almost all of them were due to filter rules 
on the receiver end.

A search of the list archives for "duplicate posts" or something 
similar ought to turn up the discussions. I don't know if anything 
exists in the FAQ regarding this. However, it is highly unlikely that 
Mailman is the culprit here. A check of the Mailman SMTP log and MTA 
logs should be able to determine if multiple copies are being sent.

Far more likely is that the subscribers are getting multiple copies 
of replies to their posts or they have filter rules that are copying 
the posts instead of moving them.

>We're running version 2.1.5 on Red Hat Linux ES, and we've also had a few
>runaway Python processes in the last couple of months that forced us to
>restart the server. Perhaps this is all related and we just need to upgrade
>to 2.1.9. Anybody happen to have a pre-built RPM for RHEL 4 with the latest
>release?

Are you committed to Red Hat's way of doing things? If you don't 
really care about their file hierarchy system, I would suggest 
dumping the RPM and compiling from source yourself. I've done a 
source install of various versions of Mailman on both an RHEL 4 and 
an RHEL 6 system and never had a problem with doing so.

Otherwise, you are pretty much doomed to being behind a bit on 
releases if you rely on a package distribution of Mailman.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Mon May  7 23:45:36 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 14:45:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Random duplicate message to subscribers
In-Reply-To: <200705072135.l47LYhbb023965@unreal.eroded.org>
References: <C265103D.2FAF6%jrlamar@owu.edu>
	<200705072135.l47LYhbb023965@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <200705072143.l47LgZYp024020@unreal.eroded.org>

Dragon wrote:

>Far more likely is that the subscribers are getting multiple copies
>of replies to their posts or they have filter rules that are copying
>the posts instead of moving them.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

That didn't come out exactly how I meant it.

What I was trying to say is that it is possible that the person is 
receiving these multiple copies because they are listed as a 
recipient in the To:, CC:, or BCC: fields. In the first two cases, 
this can happen if the user has "Avoid duplicate copies of messages?" 
set to no. If they were addressed in a BCC:, Mailman has no way of 
knowing that and cannot suppress sending of a duplicate message.


Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From bjames at cisco.com  Tue May  8 00:16:12 2007
From: bjames at cisco.com (bjames at cisco.com)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 15:16:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Random duplicate message to subscribers
In-Reply-To: : <200705072135.l47LYhbb023965@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <200705072216.l47MGCL26367@cathode.cisco.com>

--> Jason LaMar wrote:
--> >We have a fairly large list (more than 26,000 subscribers), and recently it
--> >appears a very small fraction of the subscribers have started receiving
--> >duplicate messages -- sometimes as many as a dozen or more. This behavior
--> >just started happening within the last couple of weeks, and it seems to only
--> >impact a minute and random subset of the subscribers. Anyone seen similar
--> >behavior or have suggestions on the most effective way to troubleshoot this?
--> 
--> There have been a number of discussions regarding similar things in 
--> the last few months. IIRC almost all of them were due to filter rules 
--> on the receiver end.
--> 
--> A search of the list archives for "duplicate posts" or something 
--> similar ought to turn up the discussions. I don't know if anything 
--> exists in the FAQ regarding this. However, it is highly unlikely that 
--> Mailman is the culprit here. A check of the Mailman SMTP log and MTA 
--> logs should be able to determine if multiple copies are being sent.
--> 
--> Far more likely is that the subscribers are getting multiple copies 
--> of replies to their posts or they have filter rules that are copying 
--> the posts instead of moving them.

I also suggest checking whether the subscribers receiving multiple
copies use the same ISP (or the same small set of ISPs).  I have seen
several ISPs who install "upgrades" to their MTAs and cause this symptom.
One of the root causes has been receiving MTAs that terminate the
MTA-to-MTA TCP connection before the SMTP final acknowledgement has
been processed; this causes a properly behaving sending MTA to believe
that the message handoff was not* successful, and retransmit.

If you can get the users to forward you the duplicate messages, with
complete mail headers, you can sometimes spot this behavior in the
"Received:" fields.  For example, if the ISP has multiple mail
exchangers ("nslookup -query=mx userisp.domain"), the duplicate
copies may come through different mail exchangers in close time
sequence, as the sending MTA tries one mail exchanger after the
other.

Beau

--> >We're running version 2.1.5 on Red Hat Linux ES, and we've also had a few
--> >runaway Python processes in the last couple of months that forced us to
--> >restart the server. Perhaps this is all related and we just need to upgrade
--> >to 2.1.9. Anybody happen to have a pre-built RPM for RHEL 4 with the latest
--> >release?
--> 
--> Are you committed to Red Hat's way of doing things? If you don't 
--> really care about their file hierarchy system, I would suggest 
--> dumping the RPM and compiling from source yourself. I've done a 
--> source install of various versions of Mailman on both an RHEL 4 and 
--> an RHEL 6 system and never had a problem with doing so.
--> 
--> Otherwise, you are pretty much doomed to being behind a bit on 
--> releases if you rely on a package distribution of Mailman.
--> 
--> Dragon
--> 
--> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-->   Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
--> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--> 
--> ------------------------------------------------------
--> Mailman-Users mailing list
--> Mailman-Users at python.org
--> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
--> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
--> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
--> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bjames%40cisco.com
--> 
--> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
--> 

From msapiro at value.net  Tue May  8 00:28:51 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 15:28:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Random duplicate message to subscribers
In-Reply-To: <200705072135.l47LYhbb023965@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705071528510437cd11e308@msapiro>

Dragon wrote:
>
>Are you committed to Red Hat's way of doing things? If you don't 
>really care about their file hierarchy system, I would suggest 
>dumping the RPM and compiling from source yourself.

Even if you do care about FHS, you can still install from source.
RedHat's FHS patch is attached to
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2004-October/017343.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gasper at rz.rwth-aachen.de  Tue May  8 16:48:49 2007
From: gasper at rz.rwth-aachen.de (Wilfred Gasper)
Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 16:48:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Broken signature because of multipart/alternative
Message-ID: <46408DD1.9040407@rz.rwth-aachen.de>

Hello everybody,

I'm running Mailman 2.1.9 here at RWTH Aachen University.

Our University recently started distributing smime-certificates signed 
by our certificate authority. Now more and more people use our 
mailinglists with signed messages.

I disabled the footer and mime-filtering on my testing list and have 
successfully sent a signed message over this list.

But if I send an email with text/html and text/plain, there is the 
following problem:

The message has the content-type multipart/signed as expected, but the 
signature is broken because of some additional spaces in the 
content-type: multipart/alternative. A diff-output of a mail sent over 
the list and direct shows:

35c67
< This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.
<
< --------------ms010705010807090202080200
< Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
<  boundary="------------020000020307030005020605"
---
 > This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.
 >
 > --------------ms010705010807090202080200
 > Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 >       boundary="------------020000020307030005020605"

The other differences between those two mails are only in the header 
(other route, List-* headers). And sending only html or only text (no 
multipart/alternative) doesn't brake the signature.

Any ideas how i get rid of those extra spaces between 
multipart/alternative; and boundary=? I don't think, this is a intended 
behavior?

Kind regards,
Wilfred Gasper
-- 
Wilfred Gasper
RWTH Aachen University, Center for Computing and Communication
Seffenter Weg 23, 52074 Aachen (Germany)
gasper at rz.rwth-aachen.de - www.rz.rwth-aachen.de

From msapiro at value.net  Wed May  9 03:21:12 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 18:21:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Broken signature because of
	multipart/alternative
In-Reply-To: <46408DD1.9040407@rz.rwth-aachen.de>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705081821120843fe141137@msapiro>

Wilfred Gasper wrote:
>
>I'm running Mailman 2.1.9 here at RWTH Aachen University.
>
>Our University recently started distributing smime-certificates signed 
>by our certificate authority. Now more and more people use our 
>mailinglists with signed messages.
>
>I disabled the footer and mime-filtering on my testing list and have 
>successfully sent a signed message over this list.
>
>But if I send an email with text/html and text/plain, there is the 
>following problem:
>
>The message has the content-type multipart/signed as expected, but the 
>signature is broken because of some additional spaces in the 
>content-type: multipart/alternative. A diff-output of a mail sent over 
>the list and direct shows:
>
>35c67
>< This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.
><
>< --------------ms010705010807090202080200
>< Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
><  boundary="------------020000020307030005020605"
>---
> > This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.
> >
> > --------------ms010705010807090202080200
> > Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> >       boundary="------------020000020307030005020605"


I don't think those are extra spaces. This is a folded header, and I
think what happens is the original header is folded with <CR><LF><SP>
and it is processed by Mailman for some reason and when refolded by
Mailman it is folded with <CR><LF><TAB>, thus breaking the signature.


>The other differences between those two mails are only in the header 
>(other route, List-* headers). And sending only html or only text (no 
>multipart/alternative) doesn't brake the signature.
>
>Any ideas how i get rid of those extra spaces between 
>multipart/alternative; and boundary=? I don't think, this is a intended 
>behavior?


What is the list setting for filter_content? If it is Yes, you could
try changing it to No and see if that helps.

The real issue is header folding and unfolding is ambiguous in the RFCs
in the first place, and both <SP> and <TAB> are allowed as the folding
white space. Thus, it turns out in practice that header unfolding and
refolding is something of a black art and the underlying Python email
library doesn't guarantee that transformations such as you've observed
do not occur.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From joshua at eeinternet.com  Wed May  9 04:04:39 2007
From: joshua at eeinternet.com (Joshua J. Kugler)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 18:04:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Never mind: Upgrading and changing machines
Message-ID: <200705081804.40485.joshua@eeinternet.com>

I saw the "small" FAQ on the mailman site, but didn't catch the link to the 
large FAQ.  I shall post if I have any questions after reading that.

Sorry for the noise.

j

-- 
Joshua Kugler                           
Lead System Admin -- Senior Programmer
http://www.eeinternet.com
PGP Key: http://pgp.mit.edu/  ID 0xDB26D7CE
PO Box 80086 -- Fairbanks, AK 99708 -- Ph: 907-456-5581 Fax: 907-456-3111

From joshua at eeinternet.com  Wed May  9 04:01:48 2007
From: joshua at eeinternet.com (Joshua J. Kugler)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 18:01:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading and changing machines
Message-ID: <200705081801.49774.joshua@eeinternet.com>

I searched the archives, but only found this message:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-March/035371.html which 
had no reply.

We're upgrading from 2.0.11-1woody1 to 2.1.5-9ubuntu4.1, and changing boxes in 
the process.  I've read the docs, but haven't found anything about upgrading.  
Is there a documented procedure somewhere for upgrading?  This page: 
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/site.html the 'move_list' script, but 
there is no additional documentation about it, and it is nowhere to be found 
in the tab balls.  It does, however, sound like something I might need.

I assume I can copy over the directories in /var/lib/mailman/lists, but what 
must I do to the config.db to complete the upgrade?  I'll need to change the 
host name, but there are other fields in there that look like they may need 
updating, but I'm not sure how, and I'd rather let an "official" script muck 
around with config.db.

Any hints/tips?

j

-- 
Joshua Kugler                           
Lead System Admin -- Senior Programmer
http://www.eeinternet.com
PGP Key: http://pgp.mit.edu/  ID 0xDB26D7CE
PO Box 80086 -- Fairbanks, AK 99708 -- Ph: 907-456-5581 Fax: 907-456-3111

From gasper at rz.rwth-aachen.de  Wed May  9 09:02:28 2007
From: gasper at rz.rwth-aachen.de (Wilfred Gasper)
Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 09:02:28 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Broken signature because of
	multipart/alternative
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705081821120843fe141137@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200705081821120843fe141137@msapiro>
Message-ID: <46417204.2090803@rz.rwth-aachen.de>

Hi,

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Wilfred Gasper wrote:
>>>       boundary="------------020000020307030005020605"
> 
> 
> I don't think those are extra spaces. This is a folded header, and I
> think what happens is the original header is folded with <CR><LF><SP>
> and it is processed by Mailman for some reason and when refolded by
> Mailman it is folded with <CR><LF><TAB>, thus breaking the signature.

you're right, it's an <TAB> instead of a <SP>. I tried an email with 
text/plain and image/jpeg as attachment and the result was a change from 
<CR><LF><SP> to <SP>.

> What is the list setting for filter_content? If it is Yes, you could
> try changing it to No and see if that helps.

Since it's a testing list, it's already set to No because I wanted the 
email unchanged.

> The real issue is header folding and unfolding is ambiguous in the RFCs
> in the first place, and both <SP> and <TAB> are allowed as the folding
> white space. Thus, it turns out in practice that header unfolding and
> refolding is something of a black art and the underlying Python email
> library doesn't guarantee that transformations such as you've observed
> do not occur.

Thank you for this description. So there's nothing I can do against it 
like using another version of Python?

Kind regards,
Wilfred Gasper

-- 
Wilfred Gasper
RWTH Aachen University, Center for Computing and Communication
Seffenter Weg 23, 52074 Aachen (Germany)
gasper at rz.rwth-aachen.de - www.rz.rwth-aachen.de

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed May  9 14:02:08 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 21:02:08 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Broken signature because
	of	multipart/alternative
In-Reply-To: <46417204.2090803@rz.rwth-aachen.de>
References: <PC1760200705081821120843fe141137@msapiro>
	<46417204.2090803@rz.rwth-aachen.de>
Message-ID: <17985.47168.194741.406495@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Wilfred Gasper writes:

 > Thank you for this description. So there's nothing I can do against it 
 > like using another version of Python?

Well, another version of Python won't do.  You need another version of
the Internet.  According to RFC 2822,

Subject: a few words

Subject:
  a few words

Subject:
	 a few words

have identical semantics.  So if you sign RFC 2822 headers, you need
to canonicalize them before signing, and again before verifying,
because any relay might change them.

See the domain keys standard www.dkim.org for a protocol that has to
solve a similar problem.

Mailman intends to deal with domain keys in some future version (but
implementation is not scheduled yet, don't hold your breath ... unless
you want to do it yourself), so the necessary code for
canonicalization will eventually be available in Mailman (presumably
inherited from the standard email module in Python).  But you still
face breakage from all relays between signer and verifier.

HTH


From jnyland at gmail.com  Wed May  9 16:33:19 2007
From: jnyland at gmail.com (Jared Nyland)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 08:33:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail stopped sending out to mailing list users
Message-ID: <a5d091110705090733q225b6e75u76c49de5d0a10b5@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

I have run into a issues where mail has all of a sudden stopped being sent
to the mailing list.  I have looked at the log file and searched the
archives but have not found any help.  It looks like to me that mailman has
stopped going through the mailinglist-bounces part of the process.  I was
wondering is any one has run into this issue or know of something I can do
to fix it.


Here is what I see in my log file, I am using mailman with postfix.

 relay=local, delay=29, status=sent (delivered to command:
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post listname)

postfix/qmgr[8659]: B7C2B439943: removed

Then I should see it go to the listname-bounces then out to the members of
the list


Thanks in advance
Jared

From msapiro at value.net  Wed May  9 16:47:39 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 07:47:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail stopped sending out to mailing list users
In-Reply-To: <a5d091110705090733q225b6e75u76c49de5d0a10b5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705090747390000d8e60007@msapiro>

Jared Nyland wrote:
>
>I have run into a issues where mail has all of a sudden stopped being sent
>to the mailing list.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>,
particularly items 5b, 6 and 7.

Most likely, one or more of your qrunners isn't running and messages
are just waiting in Mailman's qfiles/in/ or qfiles/out/ queues.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jnyland at gmail.com  Wed May  9 18:29:15 2007
From: jnyland at gmail.com (Jared Nyland)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 10:29:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail stopped sending out to mailing list users
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705090747390000d8e60007@msapiro>
References: <a5d091110705090733q225b6e75u76c49de5d0a10b5@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200705090747390000d8e60007@msapiro>
Message-ID: <a5d091110705090929g19a7d919jbf4eaa578366feba@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the help on this, I did try those but still does not work.  In
doing some more trouble shooting I have found that the message that I am
sending is getting stuck in the shunt directory.  I have also found in the
mailman log file that I get this error.

May 09 09:49:46 2007 (5607) Uncaught runner exception:
May 09 09:49:46 2007 (5607) Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 110, in _oneloop
   self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
 File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 160, in _onefile
   keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
 File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
_dispose
   more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
 File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
_dopipeline
   sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
 File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 91, in process
   send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
 File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in
send_digests
   send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
 File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306, in
send_i18n_digests
   msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
 File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 304, in process
   t = unicode(t, partcharset, 'replace')
 File "/usr/lib/python2.3/encodings/base64_codec.py", line 41, in
base64_decode
   assert errors == 'strict'
AssertionError

May 09 09:49:47 2007 (5607) SHUNTING:
1178725785.6627519+f5e2d81766111458741eb658164fc17d90bde0ab


Thanks again
Jared


On 5/9/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Jared Nyland wrote:
> >
> >I have run into a issues where mail has all of a sudden stopped being
> sent
> >to the mailing list.
>
>
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>,
> particularly items 5b, 6 and 7.
>
> Most likely, one or more of your qrunners isn't running and messages
> are just waiting in Mailman's qfiles/in/ or qfiles/out/ queues.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From jnyland at gmail.com  Wed May  9 18:41:24 2007
From: jnyland at gmail.com (Jared Nyland)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 10:41:24 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail stopped sending out to mailing list users
In-Reply-To: <a5d091110705090929g19a7d919jbf4eaa578366feba@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a5d091110705090733q225b6e75u76c49de5d0a10b5@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200705090747390000d8e60007@msapiro>
	<a5d091110705090929g19a7d919jbf4eaa578366feba@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a5d091110705090941q5af207e7s93740990b2fb0db@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

I have found a fix for this issue.  In the /var/lib/mailman/lists/listname,
I remane the digest.mbox then run the /bin/unshunt.  It looks like it is
working now.


Thanks again for all your help
Jared


On 5/9/07, Jared Nyland <jnyland at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> Thanks for the help on this, I did try those but still does not work.  In
> doing some more trouble shooting I have found that the message that I am
> sending is getting stuck in the shunt directory.  I have also found in the
> mailman log file that I get this error.
>
> May 09 09:49:46 2007 (5607) Uncaught runner exception:
> May 09 09:49:46 2007 (5607) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 110, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 160, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
> _dispose
>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
> _dopipeline
>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 91, in process
>
>    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in
> send_digests
>    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306, in
> send_i18n_digests
>    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 304, in
> process
>    t = unicode(t, partcharset, 'replace')
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/encodings/base64_codec.py", line 41, in
> base64_decode
>    assert errors == 'strict'
> AssertionError
>
> May 09 09:49:47 2007 (5607) SHUNTING:
> 1178725785.6627519+f5e2d81766111458741eb658164fc17d90bde0ab
>
>
> Thanks again
> Jared
>
>
>  On 5/9/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> >
> > Jared Nyland wrote:
> > >
> > >I have run into a issues where mail has all of a sudden stopped being
> > sent
> > >to the mailing list.
> >
> >
> > See
> > <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>,
> > particularly items 5b, 6 and 7.
> >
> > Most likely, one or more of your qrunners isn't running and messages
> > are just waiting in Mailman's qfiles/in/ or qfiles/out/ queues.
> >
> > --
> > Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net >       The highway is for gamblers,
> > San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> >
> >
>

From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Wed May  9 23:07:56 2007
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 06:07:56 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail stopped sending out to mailing list users
In-Reply-To: <a5d091110705090941q5af207e7s93740990b2fb0db@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a5d091110705090733q225b6e75u76c49de5d0a10b5@mail.gmail.com>	<PC1760200705090747390000d8e60007@msapiro>	<a5d091110705090929g19a7d919jbf4eaa578366feba@mail.gmail.com>
	<a5d091110705090941q5af207e7s93740990b2fb0db@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4642382C.9010308@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi Jared,

I'm curious what kind of message caused this error.
I think that the exact message causing this error contains a header like:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=base64

It would be nice if you can check the moved digest.mbox and answer if my 
hyposis is right or not.

Mark, I've checked in a patch for this error.  Will you please review it 
and back out if it is not appropriate because I have not much time to 
spend now.

Tokio

Jared Nyland wote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
> I have found a fix for this issue.  In the /var/lib/mailman/lists/listname,
> I remane the digest.mbox then run the /bin/unshunt.  It looks like it is
> working now.
> 
> 
> Thanks again for all your help
> Jared
> 
> 
> On 5/9/07, Jared Nyland <jnyland at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Mark,
>>
>> Thanks for the help on this, I did try those but still does not work.  In
>> doing some more trouble shooting I have found that the message that I am
>> sending is getting stuck in the shunt directory.  I have also found in the
>> mailman log file that I get this error.
>>
>> May 09 09:49:46 2007 (5607) Uncaught runner exception:
>> May 09 09:49:46 2007 (5607) Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 110, in _oneloop
>>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 160, in _onefile
>>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
>> _dispose
>>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
>> _dopipeline
>>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 91, in process
>>
>>    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in
>> send_digests
>>    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306, in
>> send_i18n_digests
>>    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 304, in
>> process
>>    t = unicode(t, partcharset, 'replace')
>>  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/encodings/base64_codec.py", line 41, in
>> base64_decode
>>    assert errors == 'strict'
>> AssertionError
>>
>> May 09 09:49:47 2007 (5607) SHUNTING:
>> 1178725785.6627519+f5e2d81766111458741eb658164fc17d90bde0ab
>>
>>
>> Thanks again
>> Jared
>>
>>
>>  On 5/9/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>>> Jared Nyland wrote:
>>>> I have run into a issues where mail has all of a sudden stopped being
>>> sent
>>>> to the mailing list.
>>>
>>> See
>>> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>,
>>> particularly items 5b, 6 and 7.
>>>
>>> Most likely, one or more of your qrunners isn't running and messages
>>> are just waiting in Mailman's qfiles/in/ or qfiles/out/ queues.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net >       The highway is for gamblers,
>>> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>>>
>>>


-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/

From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Wed May  9 23:13:41 2007
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 06:13:41 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail stopped sending out to mailing list users
In-Reply-To: <4642382C.9010308@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <a5d091110705090733q225b6e75u76c49de5d0a10b5@mail.gmail.com>	<PC1760200705090747390000d8e60007@msapiro>	<a5d091110705090929g19a7d919jbf4eaa578366feba@mail.gmail.com>	<a5d091110705090941q5af207e7s93740990b2fb0db@mail.gmail.com>
	<4642382C.9010308@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <46423985.8020906@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

I wrote:

> Hi Jared,
> 
> I'm curious what kind of message caused this error.
> I think that the exact message causing this error contains a header like:
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=base64
> 
> It would be nice if you can check the moved digest.mbox and answer if my 
> hyposis is right or not.

"hypothesis" of course.

Sorry for bad english, my brain is still sleeping at 6AM.




From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu May 10 02:13:58 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 19:13:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail stopped sending out to mailing list users
In-Reply-To: <46423985.8020906@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <a5d091110705090733q225b6e75u76c49de5d0a10b5@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200705090747390000d8e60007@msapiro>
	<a5d091110705090929g19a7d919jbf4eaa578366feba@mail.gmail.com>
	<a5d091110705090941q5af207e7s93740990b2fb0db@mail.gmail.com>
	<4642382C.9010308@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <46423985.8020906@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240800c2681281cd96@[10.0.1.199]>

On 5/10/07, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:

>>  It would be nice if you can check the moved digest.mbox and answer if my
>>  hyposis is right or not.
>
>  "hypothesis" of course.
>
>  Sorry for bad english, my brain is still sleeping at 6AM.

Just about everything I ever learned about the Japanese language 
comes from the miniseries "Shogun", many years ago.  Yes, that bad. 
Really bad.  No, you really don't want to think about it too hard.

Trust me, no matter how bad your English is, it's always going to be 
better than my Japanese.  Or that of most anyone else on the list, 
for that matter.


I know plenty of people for whom English is their first and only 
language who will never be able to read and write it as well as you 
can, even when they're having their best day and you're on your worst 
day.

In fact, I'm related to some of them, and yes many of those do live 
in Tennessee.  You have my humblest and deepest apologies.  Yes, 
they're family.  Yes, I love them.  But yes, I do also owe you more 
of an apology for the crimes they've committed against the English 
language than you are ever likely to be capable of committing 
yourself.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From nikos at qbit.gr  Thu May 10 12:28:41 2007
From: nikos at qbit.gr (nikos)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 13:28:41 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  problem with cron
Message-ID: <4642F3D9.70601@qbit.gr>

Hello list.
I've just install mailman 2.1.9 in a fedora 6 server.
Everything works fine except cron.

I'm recieving errors like:

You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has
been automatically rejected.  If you think that your messages are
being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at
mailman-owner at myHost.

and subjects:


Cron <mailman at mail> mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip
Cron <mailman at mail> mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs

What did I do wrong?
I've just load contab.in in crontab -umailman
What will happents If I stop cron for mailman?

Thanx
Nikos

From jpa3nos at yahoo.com  Thu May 10 13:38:33 2007
From: jpa3nos at yahoo.com (John Papapanos)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 04:38:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable member configuration options
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200704240759280796ee932b18@msapiro>
Message-ID: <778972.90369.qm@web53912.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi to all again and thanks for your postings.
I think I found a way round my problem with
mailman-2.1.9

I thougth it would be nice to share by solution with
any
one else wanting to use mailman in a confiuration
similar
to mine. Although as stated before mailman is not
designed to serve as a spam blocker for the lists on
your
domain I think it can somehow do this. This is the
problem I wanted to solve and the solution I came up
with:

The Problem.
------------

At my domain (mydomain.com), I had several mailing
lists implemented by the emebeded mechanism of the 
mail server program (/etc/aliases). A list called 
mylist (mylist at mydomain.com) had several mail acounts
where some of them where outside mydomain.

mylist: 
  user1 at mydomain.com
  user2 at mydomain.com
  outuser1 at otherdomain1.com
  outuser2 at otherdomain2.com

When mails were sent to the list my mail server
forwarded the messages to all the above members.
Considere now this scenario:
A spammer sends a spam mail to the list. The spam is
not blocked by my spam filter program and is forwarded
to the above members. In this case although my mail
server is not an open relay the a spammer was able to
send spam from my mail server to other domains. The
receiving otherdomain mail servers when they catch the
spam mail may ilform me that I send spam or in an
extreme case they could also record my mail server in
an RBL and block future messages originating from my
domain.

The Requirements
----------------
To avoid a situation like the above I want to host 
a mailing list where:

1. Anyone (member or not) can post to the list
2. Only list members can read the list's postings
3. List members can be from both mydomain and
otherdomain.
4. Messages are only forwarded to the mail-clients of
only the list members that belong to mydomain.

5.But the how members of otherdomain will be able to
read the postings in the list?

The Solution
------------
Use mailman. Create web based mailing lists where all
of the above requirements are met and where
otherdomain
list members can read the postings via the web
archive.

How-To
------
* Create the list mylist at mydomain.com
* Subscribe the users (req. 3)
* Make the list archives private (req. 2)
* Set the "Privacy Options"->"Sender Filters"->
generic_nonmember_action=Accept (req. 1)
* Enable the "membership management" -> "nomail"
option for all the otherdomain users.

That should do it. But as mailman is so configurable
for users otherdomain users can change the nomail
option from either the web or the e-mail interface. 

- Don't allow users to change their nomail option from

  the web interface:
As list admin go to "Edit the public HTML pages and
text files"->"User specific options page" find the
html
code that refers to mail delivery options and delete
it. Now when the user visits his conf. wont be able to
change the nomail option.

- But the user can also change this option via the  
email interface, so disable the e-mail interface for
this list.

Configure the auto-responder for the mylist-request
address:
Set  "Auto-responder"->autorespond_postings="yes"
Set 
"Auto-responder"->autorespond_requests="Yes,w/discard"

and add an appropriate text to the auto-response
message.
 
Thats it.

Sorry for the long message but I think this could be
usefull to some people and it adds extra value to
mailman as a more appropriate tool to host mailing
lists than embeded mail-server mechanisms.

Any suggestions, opinions arguments for the above
are welcome.

 

  
 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From gilmore.126 at osu.edu  Thu May 10 20:27:51 2007
From: gilmore.126 at osu.edu (Melinda Gilmore)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 14:27:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about autorespond
Message-ID: <006001c79330$eb711b00$6ef39280@oitlan.oit.ohiostate.edu>

I want to set up an auto respond if a user request to be subscribed to a
list, there will be a message sent to them to verify that they want to
subscribe and then they will be subscribed.   Has anyone attempted this?

Melinda Gilmore
Systems Engineer
OIT/Enterprise Messaging
614-292-4953
?



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu May 10 21:02:29 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 12:02:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about autorespond
In-Reply-To: <006001c79330$eb711b00$6ef39280@oitlan.oit.ohiostate.edu>
References: <006001c79330$eb711b00$6ef39280@oitlan.oit.ohiostate.edu>
Message-ID: <200705101859.l4AIxA6W019104@unreal.eroded.org>

Melinda Gilmore wrote:
>I want to set up an auto respond if a user request to be subscribed to a
>list, there will be a message sent to them to verify that they want to
>subscribe and then they will be subscribed.   Has anyone attempted this?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Mailman does this automatically by default if you have the list set 
to confirm subscription requests. The other options are approval 
required or both confirm and approve.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu May 10 23:04:35 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 14:04:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about autorespond
In-Reply-To: <006801c7933b$4d0623b0$6ef39280@oitlan.oit.ohiostate.edu>
References: <006001c79330$eb711b00$6ef39280@oitlan.oit.ohiostate.edu>
	<200705101859.l4AIxA6W019104@unreal.eroded.org>
	<006801c7933b$4d0623b0$6ef39280@oitlan.oit.ohiostate.edu>
Message-ID: <200705102101.l4AL1Hpf020259@unreal.eroded.org>

Melinda Gilmore sent the message below at 12:42 5/10/2007:
>I have been poking around and trying to find whre this confirm subscription
>is
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

It is in the web interface under Privacy options -> Subscription 
rules. It's the second thing on that page.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From jacqui at spitfire.com.au  Fri May 11 07:28:29 2007
From: jacqui at spitfire.com.au (Jacqui Owen)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 15:28:29 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issues with HTML messages
Message-ID: <019d01c7938d$35614f30$2901a8c0@jac>

Hi,
 
I have an odd one I hope someone can help with. I run a server with
approximately 15 different mailman mailing lists. Up until very recently
they all handled html messages fine. Now for some reason they do not, even
using html templates which have been previously, successful. Neither
Mailman, postifx or python have been updated in the time between the lists
working and not working.
The content filtering is set to no so should not affect it.
The message is sent to the list and:
in the post log, shows a failure, shows the failure in the smtp-failure log,
however the message is archived. No entry in the error log. Once a html
message is sent to the list- it is broken and will not process plain text
messages. To fix it we need to remove the message from the retry directory
and restart mailman.
 
 
 delivery to username at domain.com.au  failed with code
-1: Server not connected

Researching this error code shows it is fairly generic. Any help is
apreciated, let me know if you need further info.
 
TIA
Jacqui
 
 

From msapiro at value.net  Fri May 11 20:04:41 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:04:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail stopped sending out to mailing list users
In-Reply-To: <4642382C.9010308@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705111104410437509dc83e@msapiro>

Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
>
>I'm curious what kind of message caused this error.
>I think that the exact message causing this error contains a header like:
>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=base64
>
>It would be nice if you can check the moved digest.mbox and answer if my 
>hyposis is right or not.


Also Jared, what Mailman version is this? see below.


>Mark, I've checked in a patch for this error.  Will you please review it 
>and back out if it is not appropriate because I have not much time to 
>spend now.


I'm kind of swamped myself, but I will look further at the patch. On
first inspection, it seems it won't cause any harm and may in this
case produce a good digest, but I think the answer depends on exactly
what the bad message is.

Also, the Mailman 2.1.7 patch to ToDigest.py to catch all send_digests
exceptions should prevent the shunting in this case, although digests
are still stopped, so the current patch or another patch is required
to  get the digest out.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri May 11 20:32:11 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:32:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with cron
In-Reply-To: <4642F3D9.70601@qbit.gr>
Message-ID: <PC17602007051111321107650eefdf48@msapiro>

nikos wrote:

>Hello list.
>I've just install mailman 2.1.9 in a fedora 6 server.
>Everything works fine except cron.
>
>I'm recieving errors like:
>
>You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has
>been automatically rejected.  If you think that your messages are
>being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at
>mailman-owner at myHost.
>
>and subjects:
>
>
>Cron <mailman at mail> mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip
>Cron <mailman at mail> mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs


cron is encountering errors and trying to mail them to the owner of the
crontab which is mailman at ...

These mails from cron are being delivered to the 'mailman' list as
posts and the list is not accepting them.


>What did I do wrong?


There may be permission issues or something else causing the cron
errors. You have to see the email which will report the response from
the command cron is running.

The email actually may be attached to the reject notice, but it would
be better to put

MAILTO=user at example.com

at the top of mailman's crontab to get the cron errors mailed to you
directly.


>I've just load contab.in in crontab -umailman
>What will happents If I stop cron for mailman?


None of the periodic jobs such as sending digests, sending pending
request reminders, sending monthly password reminders, gzipping the
archive text files, etc will be run.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri May 11 21:31:39 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 12:31:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issues with HTML messages
In-Reply-To: <019d01c7938d$35614f30$2901a8c0@jac>
Message-ID: <PC17602007051112313901095c045e14@msapiro>

Jacqui Owenwrote:
> 
>The message is sent to the list and:
>in the post log, shows a failure, shows the failure in the smtp-failure log,
>however the message is archived. No entry in the error log. Once a html
>message is sent to the list- it is broken and will not process plain text
>messages. To fix it we need to remove the message from the retry directory
>and restart mailman.
> 
> 
> delivery to username at domain.com.au  failed with code
>-1: Server not connected
>
>Researching this error code shows it is fairly generic. Any help is
>apreciated, let me know if you need further info.


The issue is between Mailman's SMTPDirect delivery module and the MTA
(postfix). Something about the HTML message is causing some issue
which appears to cause postfix to abruptly drop the connection.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>
for debugging suggestions. If the information there and referenced
from there doesn't help, let us know and we can offer further
suggestions.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sat May 12 02:56:31 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 17:56:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman is not "scrubbing" attachments in the
	archives (DIAGNOSED)
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705070857510171d385cede@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705111756310078118f4d4d@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>James Dinkel wrote:
>
>>They have all been pdf files.  Will it not scrub pdf files?  I don't 
>>exactly know what the
>>
>>"MIME Content-Type:" is.
>
>For purposes of the scrubber, "MIME Content-Type:" is the value of the
>Content-Type: header of the respective MIME message part.
>
>PDF attachments should be scrubbed. They normally are Content-Type:
>application/pdf, but any Content-Type: other than text/plain should
>result in their being scrubbed in the archive.
>
>Are other attachment types being scrubbed (or are PDF attachments the
>only ones you get on your list)?
>
>Can you provide a URL of an archive message that has this problem?


James provided access in an off list reply. It turns out that this is
the same Mailman 2.1.5 scrubber issue as discussed in the "Attachments
- archives and encoding problems" thread at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-May/056923.html>.
According to the resolution in that thread, upgrade to Mailman 2.1.9
solves the problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From thomas.renner at gmx.ch  Sat May 12 12:15:27 2007
From: thomas.renner at gmx.ch (Thomas Renner)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 12:15:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sending certificated emails results in attachments
Message-ID: <464593BF.1030301@gmx.ch>

Hi
If I send an email including my certificate to mailman people
using outlook-express or notes get the content of the mail as
an attachment.

Any idea how to avoid this?
Thomas

From msapiro at value.net  Sat May 12 14:59:43 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 05:59:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sending certificated emails results in
	attachments
In-Reply-To: <464593BF.1030301@gmx.ch>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705120559430781ea2b4a78@msapiro>

Thomas Renner wrote:

>If I send an email including my certificate to mailman people
>using outlook-express or notes get the content of the mail as
>an attachment.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From nkc_2004 at hotmail.com  Sun May 13 23:13:29 2007
From: nkc_2004 at hotmail.com (N U)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 17:13:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! -- Approved messages are discarded,
 and administration interface won't update
Message-ID: <BAY133-W66A8386FED27465252038F03F0@phx.gbl>

Hi folks,I need some help here. Your advice will be appreciated. As indicated in the subject, there's re two issues (they may be related somehow):1. The administration web interfaces for all the list won't update anything. For example, if I try to approve a held message, the message will remain held. If I try to add a new member to a list, the new email won't be added at all. 2. I tried to use email reply to approve held messages but failed. I do receive confirmation email saying the approval was successful, but the lines upon the approval message in log file "vette" are like this:May 09 16:12:36 2007 (2035) test: Discarded posting:        From: xxxx at xxxx.xxx        Subject: testThis started a few weeks ago. Newly created lists have such same problem as the existing lists. Thanks!Harry
_________________________________________________________________
Change is good. See what?s different about Windows Live Hotmail.
www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/default.html?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_changegood_0507

From webaliser at netcabo.pt  Sun May 13 23:46:34 2007
From: webaliser at netcabo.pt (Webaliser)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 22:46:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] change url
Message-ID: <4647873A.2080101@netcabo.pt>

Hello All

Hope you can help me.
I need to change the url of the site but I have a mailman ml in there
and I dont know if it is possible.....
The url I have now is like this: subdomain.domain.com

Initially I requested a sub-domain to a friend, but now I have a new
domain and I would like to move everything to the new domain. Is this
possible? Archive etc?

Thx
Web

ps: i have cpanel and mailman was installed via cpanel.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon May 14 00:20:50 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 17:20:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! -- Approved messages are discarded,
 and administration interface won't update
In-Reply-To: <BAY133-W66A8386FED27465252038F03F0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY133-W66A8386FED27465252038F03F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <p06240802c26d3f0c25f6@[10.0.1.199]>

On 5/13/07, N U wrote:

>  Hi folks,I need some help here. Your advice will be appreciated. As
>  indicated in the subject, there's re two issues (they may be related
>  somehow): 1. The administration web interfaces for all the list won't
>  update anything. For example, if I try to approve a held message, the
>  message will remain held. If I try to add a new member to a list, the
>  new email won't be added at all.

There are a variety of potential causes for this problem.  Some of 
them are detailed in FAQs 4.45, 4.65, 4.69, and 4.71.

>  2. I tried to use email reply to approve held messages but failed. I
>  do receive confirmation email saying the approval was successful, but
>  the lines upon the approval message in log file "vette" are like this:
>  May 09 16:12:36 2007 (2035) test: Discarded posting:
>  From: xxxx at xxxx.xxx        Subject: testThis started a few weeks ago.
>  Newly created lists have such same problem as the existing lists.

Sounds to me like you're somehow triggering one of the anti-spam or 
mail filtering rules, which results in a "discard" action.  Check 
your anti-spam settings, and check your mail filtering settings. 
Also try searching the FAQ for "discard", and the archives of the 
list.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon May 14 00:22:52 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 17:22:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] change url
In-Reply-To: <4647873A.2080101@netcabo.pt>
References: <4647873A.2080101@netcabo.pt>
Message-ID: <p06240803c26d3fd55511@[10.0.1.199]>

On 5/13/07, Webaliser wrote:

>  Initially I requested a sub-domain to a friend, but now I have a new
>  domain and I would like to move everything to the new domain. Is this
>  possible? Archive etc?

Search the FAQ Wizard for "fix_url".  Pay particular attention to FAQ 3.4.

>  ps: i have cpanel and mailman was installed via cpanel.

Then you may not be able to do any of the above.  See FAQ 6.11.

In all likelihood, all your support requests are going to have to be 
handled by your provider.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From msapiro at value.net  Mon May 14 01:08:34 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 16:08:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! -- Approved messages are discarded,
 and administration interface won't update
In-Reply-To: <BAY133-W66A8386FED27465252038F03F0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY133-W66A8386FED27465252038F03F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <46479A72.2050401@value.net>

N U wrote:
> Hi folks,I need some help here. Your advice will be appreciated. As
> indicated in the subject, there's re two issues (they may be related
> somehow):1. The administration web interfaces for all the list won't
> update anything.


Brad has already replied with a list of relevant FAQ articles.


> 2. I tried to use email reply to
> approve held messages but failed. I do receive confirmation email
> saying the approval was successful, but the lines upon the approval
> message in log file "vette" are like this:May 09 16:12:36 2007 (2035)
> test: Discarded posting:        From: xxxx at xxxx.xxx        Subject:
> test

Are you including an

Approved: list_password

header or initial body line in your email confirm command message?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From manyacool81 at list.ru  Mon May 14 05:01:56 2007
From: manyacool81 at list.ru (Elly cool)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 10:01:56 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
Message-ID: <E1HnQou-000PQ0-00.manyacool81-list-ru@f26.mail.ru>

Elly

From nikos at qbit.gr  Mon May 14 09:19:10 2007
From: nikos at qbit.gr (nikos)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 10:19:10 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with cron
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007051111321107650eefdf48@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007051111321107650eefdf48@msapiro>
Message-ID: <46480D6E.5090708@qbit.gr>

Thank you Mark.
I put the "mailto" line in crontab and I recieve the first errors:

/bin/sh: mailman: command not found

I think refers to mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/... lines.
What is wrong with that?

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> nikos wrote:
>
>   
>> Hello list.
>> I've just install mailman 2.1.9 in a fedora 6 server.
>> Everything works fine except cron.
>>
>> I'm recieving errors like:
>>
>> You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has
>> been automatically rejected.  If you think that your messages are
>> being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at
>> mailman-owner at myHost.
>>
>> and subjects:
>>
>>
>> Cron <mailman at mail> mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip
>> Cron <mailman at mail> mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs
>>     
>
>
> cron is encountering errors and trying to mail them to the owner of the
> crontab which is mailman at ...
>
> These mails from cron are being delivered to the 'mailman' list as
> posts and the list is not accepting them.
>
>
>   
>> What did I do wrong?
>>     
>
>
> There may be permission issues or something else causing the cron
> errors. You have to see the email which will report the response from
> the command cron is running.
>
> The email actually may be attached to the reject notice, but it would
> be better to put
>
> MAILTO=user at example.com
>
> at the top of mailman's crontab to get the cron errors mailed to you
> directly.
>
>
>   
>> I've just load contab.in in crontab -umailman
>> What will happents If I stop cron for mailman?
>>     
>
>
> None of the periodic jobs such as sending digests, sending pending
> request reminders, sending monthly password reminders, gzipping the
> archive text files, etc will be run.
>
>   

From msapiro at value.net  Mon May 14 18:47:23 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 09:47:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with cron
In-Reply-To: <46480D6E.5090708@qbit.gr>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705140947230250b87a6cd1@msapiro>

nikos wrote:

>I put the "mailto" line in crontab and I recieve the first errors:
>
>/bin/sh: mailman: command not found
>
>I think refers to mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/... lines.
>What is wrong with that?


You have installed a "system" crontab as the mailman user's crontab.

The crontab you installed is designed to be put in a file in
/etc/cron.d/ (e.g. /etc/cron.d/mailman). Thus it has an extra field
between the days/times and the command which contains the userid
(mailman) under which the command is to be run.

If you install it in /var/spool/cron/ via the crontab command, you have
to remove the mailman userid field from between the times and the
commands.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From knowledgeful at gmail.com  Tue May 15 05:25:35 2007
From: knowledgeful at gmail.com (Deboo ^)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 08:55:35 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] STARTTLS problem: 454 4.3.0 TLS not available due
	to local problem
Message-ID: <e46817700705142025p4b0ee794w85651defdcae20a@mail.gmail.com>

I'm getting the above erro when I try to telnet in to my newly
installed/configured postfix with TLS.

I searched on google for this exact error but didn't get any solution.
I got the info that thsi problem is due to the certs. I double checked
the paths to the certs and all is fine. So why this problem? Can
someone help?

Regards,
Deboo

-- 
Please don't Cc: me, I'm subscribed to the list.

From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Tue May 15 06:05:54 2007
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 23:05:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] STARTTLS problem: 454 4.3.0 TLS not available
 due to local problem
In-Reply-To: <e46817700705142025p4b0ee794w85651defdcae20a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C26E9BD2.3EEE9%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 5/14/07 10:25 PM, Deboo ^ at knowledgeful at gmail.com wrote:

> I'm getting the above erro when I try to telnet in to my newly
> installed/configured postfix with TLS.

You've posted this to the Mailman list. This is a Postfix problem that has
nothing to do with Mailman. Your question is best asked in Postfix support
resources.
 
-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/



From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue May 15 10:34:04 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 17:34:04 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] STARTTLS problem: 454 4.3.0 TLS not available
	due	to local problem
In-Reply-To: <e46817700705142025p4b0ee794w85651defdcae20a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e46817700705142025p4b0ee794w85651defdcae20a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87zm46a3k3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Deboo ^ writes:

 > I'm getting the above erro when I try to telnet in to my newly
 > installed/configured postfix with TLS.
 > 
 > I searched on google for this exact error but didn't get any solution.
 > I got the info that thsi problem is due to the certs. I double checked
 > the paths to the certs and all is fine. So why this problem? Can
 > someone help?

Yes, on the postfix lists.  This is a Mailman list, but mailman is not
involved in the described symptom at all.  You have a postfix
configuration problem, ask the postfix experts.




From jetta.view at gmx.de  Tue May 15 11:57:29 2007
From: jetta.view at gmx.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Klaus_H=F6ring?=)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 11:57:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribing by mail
Message-ID: <004d01c796d7$739f6730$dc1e280a@mheld>

hi 

i want to subscribe some users to mailman by mail.

1) is it possible to add the username to the list?
2) if i add the user by mail, the user receives an confirmation email.
is it possible to disable this email?

thanks for your help


emmi

From knowledgeful at gmail.com  Tue May 15 16:48:28 2007
From: knowledgeful at gmail.com (Deboo ^)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 20:18:28 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] STARTTLS problem: 454 4.3.0 TLS not available
	due to local problem
In-Reply-To: <87zm46a3k3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <e46817700705142025p4b0ee794w85651defdcae20a@mail.gmail.com>
	<87zm46a3k3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <e46817700705150748y2b590b41l5576bfc66dac5f8d@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/15/07, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
> Deboo ^ writes:
>
>  > I'm getting the above erro when I try to telnet in to my newly
>  > installed/configured postfix with TLS.
>  >
>  > I searched on google for this exact error but didn't get any solution.
>  > I got the info that thsi problem is due to the certs. I double checked
>  > the paths to the certs and all is fine. So why this problem? Can
>  > someone help?
>
> Yes, on the postfix lists.  This is a Mailman list, but mailman is not
> involved in the described symptom at all.  You have a postfix
> configuration problem, ask the postfix experts.


Sorry to post to the wrong list.

-- 
Please don't Cc: me, I'm subscribed to the list.

From pazo.andrea at gmail.com  Wed May 16 01:34:58 2007
From: pazo.andrea at gmail.com (Andrea)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 20:34:58 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] an error
Message-ID: <b6b430900705151634t7939f06bu4735d0c99f17015d@mail.gmail.com>

hi,
i installed mailman on a webmail of my job
and then of create the list mailman, appear the next error
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/sbin/newlist", line 226, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/sbin/newlist", line 208, in main
    }, mlist=mlist)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 557, in maketext
    return findtext(templatefile, dict, raw, lang, mlist)[0]
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 534, in findtext
    raise IOError(errno.ENOENT, 'No template file found', templatefile)
IOError: [Errno 2] No template file found: 'newlist.txt'

I have no idea what could be.
then i run the mailman and seems to be all normal
anybody knows why is that error?

Thanks

           Andrea

From msapiro at value.net  Wed May 16 03:20:13 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 18:20:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribing by mail
In-Reply-To: <004d01c796d7$739f6730$dc1e280a@mheld>
Message-ID: <PC176020070515182013012505c38aaa@msapiro>

Klaus H?ring wrote:
>
>i want to subscribe some users to mailman by mail.
>
>1) is it possible to add the username to the list?


Not directly. You can only send a

subscribe [password] [digest|nodigest] [address=<address>]

to the list-request address and this acts as any other email subscribe
for that address. Note that the password is the initial password for
the subscriber, not an authorization.


>2) if i add the user by mail, the user receives an confirmation email.
>is it possible to disable this email?


If you set Privacy options...->Subscription rules->subscribe_policy to
"Require approval", the user won't receive a confirmation, but an
admin/moderator will have to approve the subscription (which can also
be done by email if admin_immed_notify is yes so you get the email
with the necessary confirmation token).

Alternatively, if you have access to mm_cfg.py, you can set

ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = Yes

and then set subscribe_policy to None to bypass confirmation and
approval completely, but this is not recommended as it allows anyone
to subscribe anyone else to the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed May 16 03:32:02 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 18:32:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] an error
In-Reply-To: <b6b430900705151634t7939f06bu4735d0c99f17015d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705151832020406eed46ff8@msapiro>

Andrea wrote:

>i installed mailman on a webmail of my job
>and then of create the list mailman, appear the next error
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/sbin/newlist", line 226, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/sbin/newlist", line 208, in main
>    }, mlist=mlist)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 557, in maketext
>    return findtext(templatefile, dict, raw, lang, mlist)[0]
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 534, in findtext
>    raise IOError(errno.ENOENT, 'No template file found', templatefile)
>IOError: [Errno 2] No template file found: 'newlist.txt'
>
>I have no idea what could be.
>then i run the mailman and seems to be all normal
>anybody knows why is that error?


At best, your Mailman installation is incomplete. The newlist.txt
template which is used to create the 'list created' message could not
be found for the list language in any of the places it might be and
the English language distribution template couldn't be found either.

Does your Mailman installation have a $prefix/templates/ directory with
a number of two-letter and two-letter_two-letter language
subdirectories with 44 or so .txt and .html templates in each?

If you don't have the templates, many other things won't work either.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pilsl at goldfisch.at  Wed May 16 11:51:58 2007
From: pilsl at goldfisch.at (peter pilsl)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 11:51:58 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HOWTO for easy subscribe/unsubscribe via a simple
	webform
Message-ID: <464AD43E.5010104@goldfisch.at>


I run several mailman-lists for people with big distance to everything 
technical.  I noticed that almost noone subscribes using the standard 
subscription-procedure via mailman-webpages cause these forms are to complex for 
these users.

Lot of people have requested information about this topic in the last years, but 
I couldnt find a central source on solutions.

So I tried to develop a small HOWTO how to create a simple single-fielded 
webform to subscribe/unsubscribe to a list and customize the resulting webpages 
and (if you use it) confirmation-mails.

Unfortunately the Unsubscribe still gives me a headache. Creating a simple 
webform seems to be almost impossible, cause the unsubscribe-link needs to 
contain the users mailadress and does not respect the "confirmation needed for 
unsubscription"-settings in the list-options

http://<SERVERNAME>/mailman/options/<LISTNAME>/<ADRESS>?unsub=Unsubscribe;unsubconfirm=1

And I didnt find a way to customize the unsubscribe-result-html-page

I would appreatiate if you would visit my HOWTO at

http://www.goldfisch.at/knowwiki/howtos/mailman_un_subscribe

and maybe you can give information on the missing pieces or general feedback.

thnx,
peter


-- 
mag. peter pilsl - goldfisch.at
IT-Consulting
Tel: +43-650-3574035
Tel: +43-1-8900602
Fax: +43-1-8900602-15
skype: peter.pilsl
pilsl at goldfisch.at
www.goldfisch.at

From brian at emwd.com  Wed May 16 13:46:51 2007
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 07:46:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAAAQAAAAgkpQY4eRGUqRdDhQvyTfbwEAAAAA@emwd.com>

Dear List:
 
I am looking to hire someone experience with mailman to help me setup
searchable archives for my clients. My idea at this moment is to use mhonarc
and htdig but I am open to suggestions. Not all of my clients require this
so I would need to set this up on a list by list basis.
 
I am looking to hire for installation services, configuration, and
instruction on how to setup/use the archiving/search software on a list by
list basis.
 
I look forward to your replies. Thank you.

Kind regards,

Brian Carpenter

--------------------------------------

EMWD -  Executive Officer

 

 

From msapiro at value.net  Wed May 16 16:26:26 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 07:26:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with cron
In-Reply-To: <464AA746.9050603@qbit.gr>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705160726260671c117c8f9@msapiro>

Nikos Gatsis wrote:
>
>You mean:
>0 12 * * * mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests -> 0 12 * * * 
>/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests


Yes, that's exactly what I mean.


>All commands in cron are likewise... I have already delete them and 
>everything is OK.
>Why you put this "mailman" command in contab.in?


We do not put it there. It was put there by whoever created the Mailman
package (rpm, port, whatever) that you installed because it was
intended to be installed in a file in /etc/cron.d and not by the
crontab command.

Also, it is not a command. Files in /etc/cron.d, do not belong to a
specific user, so they need an extra field for the userid under which
to run. That's what the 'mailman' is in this file.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From nikos at qbit.gr  Wed May 16 16:33:51 2007
From: nikos at qbit.gr (nikos)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 17:33:51 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with cron
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705160726260671c117c8f9@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200705160726260671c117c8f9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <464B164F.6000103@qbit.gr>

OK.
Actualy I use fedora's rpm.

Thank you for your help!

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Nikos Gatsis wrote:
>   
>> You mean:
>> 0 12 * * * mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests -> 0 12 * * * 
>> /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests
>>     
>
>
> Yes, that's exactly what I mean.
>
>
>   
>> All commands in cron are likewise... I have already delete them and 
>> everything is OK.
>> Why you put this "mailman" command in contab.in?
>>     
>
>
> We do not put it there. It was put there by whoever created the Mailman
> package (rpm, port, whatever) that you installed because it was
> intended to be installed in a file in /etc/cron.d and not by the
> crontab command.
>
> Also, it is not a command. Files in /etc/cron.d, do not belong to a
> specific user, so they need an extra field for the userid under which
> to run. That's what the 'mailman' is in this file.
>
>   

From ricardo at americasnet.com  Wed May 16 19:23:07 2007
From: ricardo at americasnet.com (Ricardo Kleemann)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 10:23:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please help with some list options...
Message-ID: <0b7801c797de$df338d20$0b32170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>

Hi,

Is it possible for a list to put each recipient's email address on the "To" instead of the list address itself?

Similarly, there are some email clients that change the "From" to say <list-bounces> on behalf of <sender address>, how can I have the list simply put the sender's address and not have this "on behalf of"?

Thanks
Ricardo

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed May 16 19:42:15 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 12:42:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAA
	AQAAAAgkpQY4eRGUqRdDhQvyTfbwEAAAAA@emwd.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAA
	AQAAAAgkpQY4eRGUqRdDhQvyTfbwEAAAAA@emwd.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c270f2c6476e@[10.0.1.199]>

On 5/16/07, Brian Carpenter wrote:

>  I am looking to hire someone experience with mailman to help me setup
>  searchable archives for my clients.

So far as I know, if you're looking to hire contracting/consulting 
services for Mailman, the latest information can be found in FAQ 1.17.

If you have any more recent information, please feel free to update 
that FAQ page.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed May 16 19:43:55 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 12:43:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please help with some list options...
In-Reply-To: <0b7801c797de$df338d20$0b32170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>
References: <0b7801c797de$df338d20$0b32170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>
Message-ID: <p06240801c270f312594e@[10.0.1.199]>

On 5/16/07, Ricardo Kleemann wrote:

>  Is it possible for a list to put each recipient's email address on the
>  "To" instead of the list address itself?

Search through the FAQ Wizard, the documentation, and the archives of 
the list for "personalization".  In particular, what you're looking 
for is "Full Personalization".

>  Similarly, there are some email clients that change the "From" to
>  say <list-bounces> on behalf of <sender address>, how can I have the
>  list simply put the sender's address and not have this "on behalf of"?

That's a Microsoft problem.  We can't fix that.  See FAQ 2.3.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From rick at niof.net  Wed May 16 21:45:42 2007
From: rick at niof.net (Rick Pasotto)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:45:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 'Discard all messages marked Defer' not working
Message-ID: <20070516194541.GR6999@niof.net>

It doesn't work for subscription requests.
It still works fine for posts.

On a page that had one of each the post was discarded but not the
subscription request. On a page with just a subscription request nothing
at all happens.

Using 2.1.9 on debian.

-- 
"Humankind cannot stand very much reality." -- T. S. Eliot
    Rick Pasotto    rick at niof.net    http://www.niof.net

From mmlist at ns2.elektro.com  Wed May 16 23:23:24 2007
From: mmlist at ns2.elektro.com (Mailman Users)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 17:23:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please help with some list options...
Message-ID: <200705162123.l4GLNOvb026546@ns2.elektro.com>

> On 5/16/07, Ricardo Kleemann wrote:
> 
> >  Is it possible for a list to put each recipient's email address on the
> >  "To" instead of the list address itself?
> 
> Search through the FAQ Wizard, the documentation, and the archives of 
> the list for "personalization".  In particular, what you're looking 
> for is "Full Personalization".

Look in the $prefix/data directory at a file named sitelist.cfg
This documents the "personalization" option.

The best way I've found to set this is as follows:

In the $prefix directory:

    This creates a file that contains [almost] all current configuration.
    bin/config_list -o data/YourListName.cfg YourListName

    Then edit data/YourListName.cfg and on the end, add:

# Personalization option.  See sitelist.cfg for documentation.
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
#    2 = "Full Personalization"
personalize = 2


    Then install your modified option file:
    bin/config_list -i data/YourListName.cfg YourListName

This should result in the "To: " header having the recipient's address
instead of the list's address.

    Charlie Smith


 Charlie Smith  charlie {at} elektro.cmhnet.org
 http://www.elektro.com     Columbus Ohio   USA



From rick at niof.net  Wed May 16 23:26:12 2007
From: rick at niof.net (Rick Pasotto)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 17:26:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 'Discard all messages marked Defer' not working
In-Reply-To: <20070516194541.GR6999@niof.net>
References: <20070516194541.GR6999@niof.net>
Message-ID: <20070516212612.GS6999@niof.net>

On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 03:45:42PM -0400, Rick Pasotto wrote:
> It doesn't work for subscription requests. It still works fine for
> posts.
> 
> On a page that had one of each the post was discarded but not the
> subscription request. On a page with just a subscription request
> nothing at all happens.
> 
> Using 2.1.9 on debian.

It just occurred to me that 'messages' != 'administrative requests'
which is how I was reading it.

If that is in fact the intent, is there some way it could be made
clearer? It certainly makes no sense to have the option when there are
no messages to which it would apply though I do recognize the difficulty
of programming that.

-- 
"Must the citizen ever for a moment, or in the least degree, resign his
 conscience to the legislator?  Why has every man a conscience, then?
 I think that we should be men first, and subjects afterward."
	-- Henry David Thoreau 
    Rick Pasotto    rick at niof.net    http://www.niof.net

From jdinkel4 at cox.net  Wed May 16 23:58:36 2007
From: jdinkel4 at cox.net (James Dinkel)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 16:58:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAAAQAAAAgkpQY4eRGUqRdDhQvyTfbwEAAAAA@emwd.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAAAQAAAAgkpQY4eRGUqRdDhQvyTfbwEAAAAA@emwd.com>
Message-ID: <464B7E8C.6090701@cox.net>

Why not just use mailman's built in pipermail archiver?  With pipermail 
built into mailman, archiving is set on a list by list basis.

James Dinkel

Brian Carpenter wrote:
> Dear List:
>  
> I am looking to hire someone experience with mailman to help me setup
> searchable archives for my clients. My idea at this moment is to use mhonarc
> and htdig but I am open to suggestions. Not all of my clients require this
> so I would need to set this up on a list by list basis.
>  
> I am looking to hire for installation services, configuration, and
> instruction on how to setup/use the archiving/search software on a list by
> list basis.
>  
> I look forward to your replies. Thank you.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Brian Carpenter
>
> --------------------------------------
>
> EMWD -  Executive Officer
>
>  
>
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jdinkel4%40cox.net
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>   


From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Thu May 17 00:23:49 2007
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 16:23:49 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help
In-Reply-To: <464B7E8C.6090701@cox.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAAAQAAAAgkpQY4eRGUqRdDhQvyTfbwEAAAAA@emwd.com>
	<464B7E8C.6090701@cox.net>
Message-ID: <464B8475.4070005@pauahtun.org>

Hi All--
Does the built in archiver provide searching?  If it does, I don't think 
the FAQ tells how.

Metta,
Ivan

James Dinkel wrote:
> Why not just use mailman's built in pipermail archiver?  With pipermail 
> built into mailman, archiving is set on a list by list basis.
> 
> James Dinkel
> 
> Brian Carpenter wrote:
>> Dear List:
>>  
>> I am looking to hire someone experience with mailman to help me setup
>> searchable archives for my clients. My idea at this moment is to use mhonarc
>> and htdig but I am open to suggestions. Not all of my clients require this
>> so I would need to set this up on a list by list basis.
>>  
>> I am looking to hire for installation services, configuration, and
>> instruction on how to setup/use the archiving/search software on a list by
>> list basis.
>>  
>> I look forward to your replies. Thank you.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Brian Carpenter
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>>
>> EMWD -  Executive Officer
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jdinkel4%40cox.net
>>
>> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>>
>>   
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ivanlan%40pauahtun.org
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 

-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours


From unix.iingen at gmail.com  Thu May 17 00:25:51 2007
From: unix.iingen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Instituto_de_Ingenieria_=C1rea_de_Sistemas_Unix/Linux?=)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 17:25:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with anonymous list
Message-ID: <67a4dc590705161525t4d020da6mf1e571a2075140a3@mail.gmail.com>

hello list

I configured an anonymous list, it works well but hotmail classifies all the
messages from the list as spam.  There is no problem when i set anonymous
lisy option to no

It's really important for the list to be anonymous. So i would welcome any
suggestion


Thank you very much
-- 
Instituto de Ingenier?a de la UNAM
Coordinaci?n de Sistemas de C?mputo
?rea de Sistemas Unix/Linux

From knowledgeful at gmail.com  Thu May 17 01:54:16 2007
From: knowledgeful at gmail.com (Deboo ^)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 05:24:16 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] STARTTLS problem: 454 4.3.0 TLS not available
	due to local problem
In-Reply-To: <e46817700705150748y2b590b41l5576bfc66dac5f8d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e46817700705142025p4b0ee794w85651defdcae20a@mail.gmail.com>
	<87zm46a3k3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<e46817700705150748y2b590b41l5576bfc66dac5f8d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e46817700705161654n2a79ad5auba4ba7c38dd3654f@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/15/07, Deboo ^ <knowledgeful at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/15/07, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
> > Deboo ^ writes:
> >
> >  > I'm getting the above erro when I try to telnet in to my newly
> >  > installed/configured postfix with TLS.
> >  >
> >  > I searched on google for this exact error but didn't get any solution.
> >  > I got the info that thsi problem is due to the certs. I double checked
> >  > the paths to the certs and all is fine. So why this problem? Can
> >  > someone help?
> >
> > Yes, on the postfix lists.  This is a Mailman list, but mailman is not
> > involved in the described symptom at all.  You have a postfix
> > configuration problem, ask the postfix experts.
>
>
> Sorry to post to the wrong list.


Sorry to post here again. I'm already subscribed to postfix-users but
not gettign any mail from the list nor did I get any reply to my posts
there. I subscribed again  and have not got any response from the
majordomo address. Can someone help?

Regards,
Deboo



-- 
Please don't Cc: me, I'm subscribed to the list.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu May 17 02:14:25 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 19:14:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help
In-Reply-To: <464B8475.4070005@pauahtun.org>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAA
	AQAAAAgkpQY4eRGUqRdDhQvyTfbwEAAAAA@emwd.com>	<464B7E8C.6090701@cox.net>
	<464B8475.4070005@pauahtun.org>
Message-ID: <p06240800c2714e9fce85@[10.0.1.199]>

On 5/16/07, Ivan Van Laningham wrote:

>  Does the built in archiver provide searching?

No, but ht:dig integration is pretty easy to add.

>                                                 If it does, I don't think
>  the FAQ tells how.

I believe that you need to go to the SourceForge page for the ht:dig 
patches, and the documentation is included there.  Search the 
archives for details.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu May 17 02:15:28 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 19:15:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] STARTTLS problem: 454 4.3.0 TLS not available
 due to local problem
In-Reply-To: <e46817700705161654n2a79ad5auba4ba7c38dd3654f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e46817700705142025p4b0ee794w85651defdcae20a@mail.gmail.com>
	<87zm46a3k3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<e46817700705150748y2b590b41l5576bfc66dac5f8d@mail.gmail.com>
	<e46817700705161654n2a79ad5auba4ba7c38dd3654f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c2714ef3e225@[10.0.1.199]>

On 5/17/07, Deboo ^ wrote:

>  Sorry to post here again. I'm already subscribed to postfix-users but
>  not gettign any mail from the list nor did I get any reply to my posts
>  there. I subscribed again  and have not got any response from the
>  majordomo address. Can someone help?

We don't run the postfix-users list.  You'd have to talk to Wietse or 
the other appropriate people over there.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brian at emwd.com  Thu May 17 02:57:18 2007
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:57:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c2714e9fce85@[10.0.1.199]>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAAAQAAAAkYAyGT/DT0+troIb03xhNwEAAAAA@emwd.com>

<No, but ht:dig integration is pretty easy to add.>

Apparently finding help, even paid help is another thing. 

I installed ht:dig but received the following error message when trying to
install the mailman patch:

patching file Mailman/Cgi/remote_mmsearch
can't find file to patch at input line 4745
Perhaps you used the wrong -p or --strip option?
The text leading up to this was:
--------------------------
|diff -ruP --exclude=.DS_Store mailman-2.1.9-index/Mailman/Defaults.py.in
mailman-2.1.9-htdig/Mailman/Defaults.py.in
|--- mailman-2.1.9-index/Mailman/Defaults.py.in 2006-09-18
22:14:58.000000000 +0100
|+++ mailman-2.1.9-htdig/Mailman/Defaults.py.in 2006-09-20
16:06:17.000000000 +0100

I am trying to apply the htdig-2.1.9-0.1.patch to an already setup mailman
installation. I am running blind here guys. Can someone give a hand beside a
RTM or RTF answer?

Kind regards,
Brian Carpenter
--------------------------------------
EMWD -  Executive Officer



-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Brad
Knowles
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 8:14 PM
To: Ivan Van Laningham; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help


On 5/16/07, Ivan Van Laningham wrote:

>  Does the built in archiver provide searching?

No, but ht:dig integration is pretty easy to add.

>                                                 If it does, I don't 
> think  the FAQ tells how.

I believe that you need to go to the SourceForge page for the ht:dig 
patches, and the documentation is included there.  Search the 
archives for details.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author LinkedIn Profile:
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> Slides from Invited Talks:
<http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brian%40emwd.com

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From adamsca at gmail.com  Thu May 17 06:12:50 2007
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 21:12:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] modifying admin page - create new lists
Message-ID: <27572d930705162112gbb1fde6v7fc9d5691d2c2898@mail.gmail.com>

I would like to remove the reference to creating new lists that is
included in the admin page. I have looked in the Templates folder and
in the Mailman folder, but haven't been able to find where that is
included.

-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu May 17 10:34:26 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 03:34:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAA
	AQAAAAkYAyGT/DT0+troIb03xhNwEAAAAA@emwd.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAA
	AQAAAAkYAyGT/DT0+troIb03xhNwEAAAAA@emwd.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c271c278f581@[10.0.1.199]>

On 5/16/07, Brian Carpenter wrote:

>  Apparently finding help, even paid help is another thing.

Well, in a sense you're getting what you're paying for.

I know you asked for paid consulting on this sort of thing, but I 
don't have the time to do that, and so far as I know, neither do any 
of the other principal people involved in developing or supporting 
Mailman.  I pointed you at the FAQ entry where we have the latest 
information that I know of on this subject.  If you're unable or 
unwilling to find help through those resources, I don't know that 
we're going to be able to do that much more for you.  If so, then it 
will most definitely be on an when-available basis.

>  I am trying to apply the htdig-2.1.9-0.1.patch to an already setup mailman
>  installation. I am running blind here guys. Can someone give a hand beside a
>  RTM or RTF answer?

You didn't tell us anything about your installation.  From your error 
messages, I would guess that you're trying to apply this on a machine 
running Mac OS X.  Is this Mac OS X Server?  If so, are you trying to 
apply to the Apple-provided version of Mailman on Mac OS X Server? 
If so, have you read the FAQ entry on that subject?

I think you're asking a lot of us, without providing us much useful 
information in the way of what platform you're working on, what 
software is already installed and where, etc....  We're not 
mind-readers.  If you want us to be able to help, you need to provide 
some minimal baseline information.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From macek at fortech.cz  Thu May 17 10:37:48 2007
From: macek at fortech.cz (Tomas Macek)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:37:48 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderation bit off on explicitly selected users
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007050410531301870669fd08@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007050410531301870669fd08@msapiro>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.99.0705171033510.12374@maca.fortech.cz>

> Tomas Macek wrote:
>
>> we are using mailman 2.1.5 with Postfix. On our announce-only list we have subscribed all of our employees. This list is fully moderated, so when someone posts, the message waits for approving. That's fine. Now I need to have some users (3 mail addresses) of the subscribes, that can post to the list without moderation and waiting for approving from the moderator. Where can I specify these adresses? I do not use the mailman's web interface.
>>
>> According to the posts I have found on google, this should be done by modifying the moderation bit on each user, but I cannot find where it could be done in the config file?
>
>
> It can be done, but it is tricky. You have to call the list method to
> do it.
>
>
>> The config file is the one obtained from the ./config_list -o list.conf MyList.
>> When I specify this in
>>
>>     owner = ['adr1 at ourdomain.cz', 'adr2 at ourdomain.cz', 'adr3 at ourdomain.cz']
>>     moderator = ['adr1 at ourdomain.cz', 'adr2 at ourdomain.cz', 'adr3 at ourdomain.cz']
>>
>> it does not help, the message from adr1 at ourdomain.cz waits for approving.
>
>
> You made these addresses both owner and moderator which is redundant
> and only means that they will receive notices for the owner/moderator.
> It has nothing to do with posting. Go to the FAQ wizard
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and see FAQ's 3.27, 3.45
> and 3,60 for more on this.
>
>
>> I set up this further settings:
>> default_member_moderation = True
>> member_moderation_action = 0
>> generic_nonmember_action = 3
>>
>> I tried to setup the config like here http://www.modwest.com/help/kb13-195.html, but I think this is the case I have now - any message that came to the list is moderated, without exceptions. But I want these exceptions - some people can post without moderation.
>
>
> See FAQ 3.11 for our advice on this.
>
>
>> Can anyone help me? If you want to know any other options I have in the config, let me know please.
>
>
> Why can't you use the web interface?
We don't want to use the web interface, because we don't want to have another software running on our mailserver - we understand it as another possible security hole.

>
> from Mailman import mm_cfg
> mlist.setMemberOption('user at example.com', mm_cfg.Moderate, 0)
> del mm_cfg
This works, I used this, thanks!


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu May 17 10:43:21 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 03:43:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] modifying admin page - create new lists
In-Reply-To: <27572d930705162112gbb1fde6v7fc9d5691d2c2898@mail.gmail.com>
References: <27572d930705162112gbb1fde6v7fc9d5691d2c2898@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c271c5c0ba7f@[10.0.1.199]>

On 5/16/07, Christopher Adams wrote:

>  I would like to remove the reference to creating new lists that is
>  included in the admin page. I have looked in the Templates folder and
>  in the Mailman folder, but haven't been able to find where that is
>  included.

You'd have to check the source code to be sure, but my guess is that 
page is generated internally by Mailman.  There's a lot of stuff that 
can be modified through the templates, but there's also a lot of 
stuff that is generated internally, and you can only change the 
latter by making modifications to the source code.

This is a situation we're hoping to improve in the future, where 
pretty much everything should go through some sort of templating 
process, but we're not there today -- and I don't anticipate that 
we'll be there in the immediate future, although I do hope we get 
there sooner rather than later.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brian at emwd.com  Thu May 17 13:51:48 2007
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 07:51:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c271c278f581@[10.0.1.199]>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAAAQAAAAfr4sQAzWZ0mb0nmfRM7wIgEAAAAA@emwd.com>

My installation of mailman is on a Linux box running cPanel/WHM. The os is
CentOS 4.4. It is not an apple machine. It seems to me that the patch is
looking for a Defaults.py.in file, which I don't have. I could be wrong
however in interpreting the error message.

I do appreciate any help you can provide.

Kind regards,
Brian Carpenter
--------------------------------------
EMWD -  Executive Officer



-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at shub-internet.org] 
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 4:34 AM
To: Brian Carpenter; 'Brad Knowles'; 'Ivan Van Laningham';
mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help


On 5/16/07, Brian Carpenter wrote:

>  Apparently finding help, even paid help is another thing.

Well, in a sense you're getting what you're paying for.

I know you asked for paid consulting on this sort of thing, but I 
don't have the time to do that, and so far as I know, neither do any 
of the other principal people involved in developing or supporting 
Mailman.  I pointed you at the FAQ entry where we have the latest 
information that I know of on this subject.  If you're unable or 
unwilling to find help through those resources, I don't know that 
we're going to be able to do that much more for you.  If so, then it 
will most definitely be on an when-available basis.

>  I am trying to apply the htdig-2.1.9-0.1.patch to an already setup 
> mailman  installation. I am running blind here guys. Can someone give 
> a hand beside a  RTM or RTF answer?

You didn't tell us anything about your installation.  From your error 
messages, I would guess that you're trying to apply this on a machine 
running Mac OS X.  Is this Mac OS X Server?  If so, are you trying to 
apply to the Apple-provided version of Mailman on Mac OS X Server? 
If so, have you read the FAQ entry on that subject?

I think you're asking a lot of us, without providing us much useful 
information in the way of what platform you're working on, what 
software is already installed and where, etc....  We're not 
mind-readers.  If you want us to be able to help, you need to provide 
some minimal baseline information.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author LinkedIn Profile:
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> Slides from Invited Talks:
<http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0


From tmz at pobox.com  Thu May 17 14:15:30 2007
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 08:15:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAAAQAAAAfr4sQAzWZ0mb0nmfRM7wIgEAAAAA@emwd.com>
References: <p06240800c271c278f581@[10.0.1.199]>
	<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAAAQAAAAfr4sQAzWZ0mb0nmfRM7wIgEAAAAA@emwd.com>
Message-ID: <20070517121530.GB14957@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Brian Carpenter wrote:
> My installation of mailman is on a Linux box running cPanel/WHM. The
> os is CentOS 4.4. It is not an apple machine. It seems to me that
> the patch is looking for a Defaults.py.in file, which I don't have.
> I could be wrong however in interpreting the error message.

I don't know much about the ht:dig patch, but it does appear from a
cursory reading of it's docs[1] that it is meant to be applied to a
Mailman *source* tree, not to an already installed Mailman.

You may be able to force this to apply to the cPanel version of
mailman, but you'd face an uphill battle I'm sure.  See FAQ 6.11[2]
regarding cPanel.  There is a source dir on cPanel, the last time I
looked.  But it differs in numerous ways from the official Mailman
install.

(Someone out there may be interested in doing this work for pay,
though I'm not one of them.  My experience with cPanel is
intentionally limited.  I found it incredibly annoying to have to
track down change after change that they'd made to the various parts
of the system.)

[1] http://www.openinfo.co.uk/mm/patches/444884/install.html
[2] http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The authority of those who teach is often an obstacle to those who
want to learn.
    -- Cicero

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From jdinkel4 at cox.net  Thu May 17 15:52:28 2007
From: jdinkel4 at cox.net (James Dinkel)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 08:52:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help
In-Reply-To: <20070517121530.GB14957@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
References: <p06240800c271c278f581@[10.0.1.199]>	<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAAAQAAAAfr4sQAzWZ0mb0nmfRM7wIgEAAAAA@emwd.com>
	<20070517121530.GB14957@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <464C5E1C.7040209@cox.net>

Why does there need to be a patch to mailman?  Could you just setup 
htdig and have it index the pipermail web pages?

James Dinkel

Todd Zullinger wrote:
> Brian Carpenter wrote:
>   
>> My installation of mailman is on a Linux box running cPanel/WHM. The
>> os is CentOS 4.4. It is not an apple machine. It seems to me that
>> the patch is looking for a Defaults.py.in file, which I don't have.
>> I could be wrong however in interpreting the error message.
>>     
>
> I don't know much about the ht:dig patch, but it does appear from a
> cursory reading of it's docs[1] that it is meant to be applied to a
> Mailman *source* tree, not to an already installed Mailman.
>
> You may be able to force this to apply to the cPanel version of
> mailman, but you'd face an uphill battle I'm sure.  See FAQ 6.11[2]
> regarding cPanel.  There is a source dir on cPanel, the last time I
> looked.  But it differs in numerous ways from the official Mailman
> install.
>
> (Someone out there may be interested in doing this work for pay,
> though I'm not one of them.  My experience with cPanel is
> intentionally limited.  I found it incredibly annoying to have to
> track down change after change that they'd made to the various parts
> of the system.)
>
> [1] http://www.openinfo.co.uk/mm/patches/444884/install.html
> [2] http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp
>
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jdinkel4%40cox.net
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From jdinkel4 at cox.net  Thu May 17 15:57:49 2007
From: jdinkel4 at cox.net (James Dinkel)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 08:57:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] detecting administrivia requests in "bounces"
Message-ID: <464C5F5D.2090303@cox.net>

For some reason, my users like to send emails to 
listname-bounces at listserver.com.  I guess maybe because that is what is 
in the From: address on emails they recieve.  Anyway, they will be 
emails with a single request in them like "help" or "subscribe" but they 
dome to me because the bounce filter couldn't filter them out.  Is there 
anyway to have these checked for Administrivia?

From cbraxton at iname.com  Thu May 17 16:13:37 2007
From: cbraxton at iname.com (Carter Braxton)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:13:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to configure a list for invitation-only
	subscriptions?
Message-ID: <20070517141337.726C11CE303@ws1-6.us4.outblaze.com>

How can I configure an existing mailing list to be invitation-only? (That is, disabling the ability for the general public to sign up via the web or email interfaces unless an invitation is received first.) I must be missing something as I'm sure this is a very common requirement, but have not seen anything obvious in the list's options, mailman docs, or google searches. Thanks for help with this!

=
Laser Welding and Assembly
Automated laser weld attach tools. Comprehensive design and manufacturing services.
http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=ea8dbd0b0eb980b8756c95ef9128e3c2


From tmz at pobox.com  Thu May 17 16:40:16 2007
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:40:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help
In-Reply-To: <464C5E1C.7040209@cox.net>
References: <p06240800c271c278f581@[10.0.1.199]>
	<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAAAQAAAAfr4sQAzWZ0mb0nmfRM7wIgEAAAAA@emwd.com>
	<20070517121530.GB14957@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<464C5E1C.7040209@cox.net>
Message-ID: <20070517144016.GA18892@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

James Dinkel wrote:
> Why does there need to be a patch to mailman?  Could you just setup 
> htdig and have it index the pipermail web pages?

That doesn't provide the per-list integration that Brian wants.

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now, now my good man, this is no time for making enemies.
    -- Voltaire, on his deathbed in response to a priest asking that
    he renounce Satan.

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From brian at emwd.com  Thu May 17 17:08:34 2007
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 11:08:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help
In-Reply-To: <20070517121530.GB14957@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAAAQAAAAAHVyct1eUEKfSFjZaf0uzAEAAAAA@emwd.com>

>I don't know much about the ht:dig patch, but it does appear from a cursory
reading of it's docs[1] that it is meant to be applied to a Mailman *source*
tree, not to an already installed Mailman.

Thanks Todd. That explains the error message. cPanel's distribution of
mailman has worked great for me for years and they keep up with the latest
release of mailman consistently. I think I will need a third party
archiver/search function for my needs such as mhonarch/mharc.

If someone has experience in using mhonarch/mharc and has some time to help,
please contact me off list. Thanks.

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The authority of those who teach is often an obstacle to those who want to
learn.
    -- Cicero



From paul at fpen.org  Thu May 17 17:27:00 2007
From: paul at fpen.org (Paul Kleeberg MD Ramsey)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:27:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many moderator requests
Message-ID: <0741E19C-9F24-41F1-B8A8-CFB3836D396D@fpen.org>

I have a moderator who has not dealt with moderator requests for so  
long that the web page to manage them times out when it attempts to  
load.  We wish do delete all the pending messages.  How do I proceed?

Paul
--
Paul Kleeberg
paul at fpen.org

From ricardo at americasnet.com  Thu May 17 17:34:09 2007
From: ricardo at americasnet.com (Ricardo Kleemann)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 08:34:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounces of invalid emails don't go to owner?
Message-ID: <0d2b01c79898$d0070380$0b32170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>

Hi,

I see in my maillog email addresses that are bouncing because they are not valid, and I see mailman handling the bounce score, but the owner does not receive the bounce messages.

Is there a way to configure such that the owner does receive these bounces?

Thanks
Ricardo

From jetta.view at gmx.de  Thu May 17 17:35:37 2007
From: jetta.view at gmx.de (jetta.view at gmx.de)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 17:35:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how can i simulate mailman pages
Message-ID: <20070517153545.0C5F51E4002@bag.python.org>

hi,
how can i simulate mailman pages?
i want to build my own page to add or remove
members without any admin-confirmation.
 
--> Membership Management... -->Mass Subscription 
--> Membership Management... -->Mass Removal 
--> Membership Management... -->Membership List 

in the next step i want to send the post data
by script. (http://www.php-faq.de/q/q-code-post.html)

does anybody did the same for something?
i tested it, but it does not work and i don't know
why.
thanks for your help

best regards
emmi
 


From ricardo at americasnet.com  Thu May 17 17:48:51 2007
From: ricardo at americasnet.com (Ricardo Kleemann)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 08:48:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounces of invalid emails don't go to owner?
References: <0d2b01c79898$d0070380$0b32170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>
	<464C7939.9010903@greenacrestechnology.com>
Message-ID: <0d4601c7989a$ddd52f30$0b32170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>

Thanks.

I have all those settings to "Yes", isn't that the way it should be?

The first setting is about bounce messages that failed to be detected... but 
what about regular bounces that are properly detected?

Ricardo

> Hello,
>
> Go onto the "Bounce Processing" page on your Administration page. Scroll 
> to the bottom of the options. The last three are:
>
> Should Mailman send you, the list owner, any bounce messages that failed 
> to be detected by the bounce processor? /Yes/ is recommended.
> (Details for *bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner*) 
> <http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/admin/myrna-speak/?VARHELP=bounce/bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner>
>
> No Yes
>
> Should Mailman notify you, the list owner, when bounces cause a member's 
> subscription to be disabled?
> (Details for *bounce_notify_owner_on_disable*) 
> <http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/admin/myrna-speak/?VARHELP=bounce/bounce_notify_owner_on_disable>
>
> No Yes
>
> Should Mailman notify you, the list owner, when bounces cause a member to 
> be unsubscribed?
> (Details for *bounce_notify_owner_on_removal*) 
> <http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/admin/myrna-speak/?VARHELP=bounce/bounce_notify_owner_on_removal>
>
> No Yes
>
>
>
> This is where you can set what messages are sent to you via the bounce 
> system.
> 


From rodti at macleary.com  Thu May 17 17:25:44 2007
From: rodti at macleary.com (Rodti MacLeary)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:25:44 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stripping signatures from list messages
Message-ID: <36762.194.159.178.180.1179415544.squirrel@sqmail.phroot.net>

Is there any way for members of a discussion list to ask Mailman to
'ignore' the rest of their post, similar to the 'end' command when sending
an email to the listname-request address?  For example a member may have a
large footer signature automatically appended to their message when it
leaves their mail server, so adding an 'ignore' signal to the end of their
message would stop the signature below from being sent to the entire list.

Hope that makes sense!

r.


From ricardo at americasnet.com  Thu May 17 18:22:54 2007
From: ricardo at americasnet.com (Ricardo Kleemann)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:22:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounces of invalid emails don't go to owner?
References: <0d2b01c79898$d0070380$0b32170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>
	<464C7939.9010903@greenacrestechnology.com>
	<0d4601c7989a$ddd52f30$0b32170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>
	<464C7F2A.8060302@greenacrestechnology.com>
Message-ID: <0d6c01c7989f$9f6b9b80$0b32170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>

So there's no easy way to prune a large list of bad addresses... :-(


> Mailman attempts to process bounces on its own. Even with that setting 
> set to yes, you will only ever see the actual bounces when Mailman 
> cannot detect them.
> 
> Unless someone like Mark has a brilliant way of viewing these, you can't.
>

From rmrainey at earthlink.net  Thu May 17 21:56:15 2007
From: rmrainey at earthlink.net (Michael Rainey)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 13:56:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] neither receiving or sending
Message-ID: <464CB35F.5040304@earthlink.net>

After months of successful use of Mailman 2.1.5 for several lists, my 
hosting company "accidentally" unistalled Mailman. The have since 
"reinstalled" it, and it looks like all necessary files in var are there 
etc.

However no messages are apparently received (a moderated list---never 
shows a pending moderator request), nor sent (no notifications to 
administrator or mail delivered to recipients

It is a virtual host and the "add_virtual host ('www.mydomain.ext') was 
originally set up correctly but since it has been some time, and I, as a 
rank beginner cannot now locate mm_cfg.py (default 
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py) that should exist to check that it 
is still intact. Or if 'root /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py' is 
the correct path then mailman/Mailman no longer is there.

I did run 'newaliases' but no difference.

My hosting company has offered to back everything up and completely 
reinstall, but I don't have much faith in them at this point and have 
asked them not to do anything until I can identify probable issues. I 
guess as a minimum I would like to back up the (not public) list before 
I let them proceed.


Thank you,

MIchael Rainey

From rmrainey at earthlink.net  Thu May 17 22:22:20 2007
From: rmrainey at earthlink.net (Michael Rainey)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 14:22:20 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] neither receiving or sending
Message-ID: <464CB97C.10209@earthlink.net>

mm_cfg.py IS still there and is correct.

Sorry...long day.

Michael Rainey

__________________________

After months of successful use of Mailman 2.1.5 for several lists, my
hosting company "accidentally" unistalled Mailman. The have since
"reinstalled" it, and it looks like all necessary files in var are there
etc.

However no messages are apparently received (a moderated list---never
shows a pending moderator request), nor sent (no notifications to
administrator or mail delivered to recipients

It is a virtual host and the "add_virtual host ('www.mydomain.ext') was
originally set up correctly but since it has been some time, and I, as a
rank beginner cannot now locate mm_cfg.py (default
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py) that should exist to check that it
is still intact. Or if 'root /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py' is
the correct path then mailman/Mailman no longer is there.

I did run 'newaliases' but no difference.

My hosting company has offered to back everything up and completely
reinstall, but I don't have much faith in them at this point and have
asked them not to do anything until I can identify probable issues. I
guess as a minimum I would like to back up the (not public) list before
I let them proceed.


Thank you,

MIchael Rainey



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu May 17 23:21:46 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:21:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with anonymous list
In-Reply-To: <67a4dc590705161525t4d020da6mf1e571a2075140a3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <67a4dc590705161525t4d020da6mf1e571a2075140a3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00705171421i45994ac5s3bd8af61b44dd224@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/16/07, Instituto de Ingenieria ?rea de Sistemas Unix/Linux
<unix.iingen at gmail.com> wrote:
> I configured an anonymous list, it works well but hotmail classifies all the
> messages from the list as spam.  There is no problem when i set anonymous
> lisy option to no

Contact Hotmail and find out why they're classifying your list as
spam, and see if you can get on some kind of whitelist.

A good starting point might be Hotmail's 'postmaster' site
<http://postmaster.msn.com/>.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu May 17 23:33:32 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:33:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] detecting administrivia requests in "bounces"
In-Reply-To: <464C5F5D.2090303@cox.net>
References: <464C5F5D.2090303@cox.net>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00705171433i49ea40afx50d5b3300f90a29d@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/17/07, James Dinkel <jdinkel4 at cox.net> wrote:
> For some reason, my users like to send emails to
> listname-bounces at listserver.com.  I guess maybe because that is what is
> in the From: address on emails they recieve.  Anyway, they will be
> emails with a single request in them like "help" or "subscribe" but they
> dome to me because the bounce filter couldn't filter them out.  Is there
> anyway to have these checked for Administrivia?

No way without modifying the code, I think.

It looks like you'd have to modify maybe_forward in BounceRunner to
send it along to CommandRunner instead of just forwarding it to the
admin. Of course, if it's a genuinely unrecognized bounce, this would
result in the sender getting a bounce BACK for the unknown command,
which is bad.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu May 17 23:37:37 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:37:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to configure a list for invitation-only
	subscriptions?
In-Reply-To: <20070517141337.726C11CE303@ws1-6.us4.outblaze.com>
References: <20070517141337.726C11CE303@ws1-6.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00705171437q2786244ex206038836d2efb29@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/17/07, Carter Braxton <cbraxton at iname.com> wrote:
> How can I configure an existing mailing list to be invitation-only? (That is, disabling the
> ability for the general public to sign up via the web or email interfaces unless an invitation
> is received first.) I must be missing something as I'm sure this is a very common
> requirement, but have not seen anything obvious in the list's options, mailman docs, or
> google searches. Thanks for help with this!

Set 'advertised' to 'No' and 'subscribe_policy' to at least 'Require
approval,' if not 'Confirm and approve.'

Then, send invitations from Member Management > Mass Subscribe. (set
'Subscribe these users now or invite them?' to 'invite')

(Is there a better way to do any part of this?)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu May 17 23:39:23 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:39:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd:  Too many moderator requests
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00705171439j6d1fdce9v44cd68089c07771@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0741E19C-9F24-41F1-B8A8-CFB3836D396D@fpen.org>
	<6fbe3da00705171439j6d1fdce9v44cd68089c07771@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00705171439q9babe4bwe55ae4568d32e778@mail.gmail.com>

Forgot to 'Reply To All'.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com>
Date: May 17, 2007 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Too many moderator requests
To: Paul Kleeberg MD Ramsey <paul at fpen.org>


On 5/17/07, Paul Kleeberg MD Ramsey <paul at fpen.org> wrote:
> I have a moderator who has not dealt with moderator requests for so
> long that the web page to manage them times out when it attempts to
> load.  We wish do delete all the pending messages.  How do I proceed?

See FAQ 4.74 <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.074.htp>

--
- Patrick Bogen


-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu May 17 23:41:03 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:41:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how can i simulate mailman pages
In-Reply-To: <20070517153545.0C5F51E4002@bag.python.org>
References: <20070517153545.0C5F51E4002@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00705171441r68a08fd4y7d1b49bb7d0fafdc@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/17/07, jetta.view at gmx.de <jetta.view at gmx.de> wrote:
> hi,
> how can i simulate mailman pages?
> i want to build my own page to add or remove
> members without any admin-confirmation.


Why can't you just set subscribe_policy to 'Confirm' and then
duplicate the form fields on the general page for the list?

> i tested it, but it does not work and i don't know
> why.

The problem is probably that the /admin/* pages require the list or
site admin password to be in a cookie, and normal users aren't going
to have that.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu May 17 23:42:09 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:42:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stripping signatures from list messages
In-Reply-To: <36762.194.159.178.180.1179415544.squirrel@sqmail.phroot.net>
References: <36762.194.159.178.180.1179415544.squirrel@sqmail.phroot.net>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00705171442u461134d3kaff5eb1cb2c70785@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/17/07, Rodti MacLeary <rodti at macleary.com> wrote:
> Is there any way for members of a discussion list to ask Mailman to
> 'ignore' the rest of their post, similar to the 'end' command when sending
> an email to the listname-request address?  For example a member may have a
> large footer signature automatically appended to their message when it
> leaves their mail server, so adding an 'ignore' signal to the end of their
> message would stop the signature below from being sent to the entire list.

Mailman has no built-in way of doing this. It seems like this would be
difficult to implement if folks are using HTML mail; for plaintext
mail, it'd probably be fairly trivial to modify the code to do this.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu May 17 23:32:09 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:32:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAA
	AQAAAAfr4sQAzWZ0mb0nmfRM7wIgEAAAAA@emwd.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAA
	AQAAAAfr4sQAzWZ0mb0nmfRM7wIgEAAAAA@emwd.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c27279b8e8f1@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/17/07, Brian Carpenter wrote:

>  My installation of mailman is on a Linux box running cPanel/WHM. The os is
>  CentOS 4.4.

That's the kind of information we would have needed to know before we 
would be able to help you.  See FAQ 6.11, as well as FAQs 1.22 and 
1.23.

>               It is not an apple machine.

Part of the process you showed was referencing a ".DS_Store" file. 
See <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.DS_Store>, but clearly a Mac OS X 
box somehow got involved in your process.  I don't know how that is, 
but it's clearly there.

>                                            It seems to me that the patch is
>  looking for a Defaults.py.in file, which I don't have. I could be wrong
>  however in interpreting the error message.

I'd have to check, but the patch you downloaded may be intended to be 
applied to a pre-installed source-only version of Mailman, as you 
would have downloaded from one of our sites.

I have no idea how it would be applied to a cPanel installation. 
Again, see FAQ 6.11.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu May 17 23:37:42 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:37:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] detecting administrivia requests in "bounces"
In-Reply-To: <464C5F5D.2090303@cox.net>
References: <464C5F5D.2090303@cox.net>
Message-ID: <p06240802c2727aed3169@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/17/07, James Dinkel wrote:

>  For some reason, my users like to send emails to
>  listname-bounces at listserver.com.  I guess maybe because that is what is
>  in the From: address on emails they recieve.  Anyway, they will be
>  emails with a single request in them like "help" or "subscribe" but they
>  dome to me because the bounce filter couldn't filter them out.  Is there
>  anyway to have these checked for Administrivia?

Check your list configuration.  Those kinds of messages should 
already be filtered for Administrivia by default.

Check the main web admin page for your list, and scroll down to 
"administrivia".  Make sure that the radio button is set to "Yes".


Beyond that, there's nothing that Mailman can currently do for you. 
If you like, you may be able to create some additional Python code to 
handle these kinds of requests, but you'd need to find the necessary 
source module and make your changes there.

If you go this route, please consider contributing your changes back 
to the project through the appropriate SourceForge "patch" page for 
Mailman.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu May 17 23:39:26 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:39:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to configure a list for invitation-only
 subscriptions?
In-Reply-To: <20070517141337.726C11CE303@ws1-6.us4.outblaze.com>
References: <20070517141337.726C11CE303@ws1-6.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <p06240803c2727bbe6279@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/17/07, Carter Braxton wrote:

>  How can I configure an existing mailing list to be invitation-only? (That
>  is, disabling the ability for the general public to sign up via the web
>  or email interfaces unless an invitation is received first.)

This sort of stuff should be covered in FAQ 3.11, and the related FAQ 
entries -- try searching for "announce".

>  I must be missing something as I'm sure this is a very common requirement,
>  but have not seen anything obvious in the list's options, mailman docs,
>  or google searches. Thanks for help with this!

If the above FAQ entries don't answer your questions, please let us 
know and we'll try to clarify.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu May 17 23:41:41 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:41:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAA
	AQAAAAAHVyct1eUEKfSFjZaf0uzAEAAAAA@emwd.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAA
	AQAAAAAHVyct1eUEKfSFjZaf0uzAEAAAAA@emwd.com>
Message-ID: <p06240804c2727c2b7be4@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/17/07, Brian Carpenter wrote:

>  If someone has experience in using mhonarch/mharc and has some time to help,
>  please contact me off list. Thanks.

Part of your issue there is that they're not only going to need 
experience with mhonarc, but they're also going to need (or want to 
gain) experience with cPanel.

Really, these kinds of questions should be directed at your service 
provider (assuming they installed cPanel for you), or the cPanel 
folks.  They've made some extensive changes to the Mailman code and 
haven't contributed those back to us, so our ability to support their 
package is extremely limited.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu May 17 23:45:02 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:45:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stripping signatures from list messages
In-Reply-To: <36762.194.159.178.180.1179415544.squirrel@sqmail.phroot.net>
References: <36762.194.159.178.180.1179415544.squirrel@sqmail.phroot.net>
Message-ID: <p06240805c2727c9f9740@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/17/07, Rodti MacLeary wrote:

>  Is there any way for members of a discussion list to ask Mailman to
>  'ignore' the rest of their post, similar to the 'end' command when sending
>  an email to the listname-request address?  For example a member may have a
>  large footer signature automatically appended to their message when it
>  leaves their mail server, so adding an 'ignore' signal to the end of their
>  message would stop the signature below from being sent to the entire list.

Mailman does not have this functionality, no.

If the signature (or other additional stuff) was enclosed in a 
separate MIME bodypart, that could potentially be filtered out 
through the "Content filtering" facilities, but that would be about 
as far as we can go right now.


If you like, you may be able to create some additional Python code to 
handle this kind of stuff, but you'd need to find the necessary 
source module and make your changes there.

If you go this route, please consider contributing your changes back 
to the project through the appropriate SourceForge "patch" page for 
Mailman.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu May 17 23:47:20 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:47:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many moderator requests
In-Reply-To: <0741E19C-9F24-41F1-B8A8-CFB3836D396D@fpen.org>
References: <0741E19C-9F24-41F1-B8A8-CFB3836D396D@fpen.org>
Message-ID: <p06240806c2727d7fcba2@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/17/07, Paul Kleeberg MD Ramsey wrote:

>  I have a moderator who has not dealt with moderator requests for so
>  long that the web page to manage them times out when it attempts to
>  load.  We wish do delete all the pending messages.  How do I proceed?

You could try the command-line moderation techniques discussed in FAQ 3.61.

Failing that, this FAQ also has instructions on how to manually throw 
away all the offending files.  However, before going this route, I'd 
encourage you to search the FAQ for any other related entries, and to 
also search the archives of this list.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu May 17 23:49:36 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:49:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounces of invalid emails don't go to owner?
In-Reply-To: <0d2b01c79898$d0070380$0b32170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>
References: <0d2b01c79898$d0070380$0b32170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>
Message-ID: <p06240807c2727defe5ef@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/17/07, Ricardo Kleemann wrote:

>  I see in my maillog email addresses that are bouncing because they are
>  not valid, and I see mailman handling the bounce score, but the owner
>  does not receive the bounce messages.
>
>  Is there a way to configure such that the owner does receive these bounces?

The only way I know of is to change the alias so that the bounces go 
both directly to the list owner (or whatever other address you want), 
as well as going into Mailman for processing there.

I'm not sure, but this sort of thing may be detailed in the FAQ.  I'd 
encourage you to search there, as well as searching the archives of 
this list.

If this isn't already addressed in the FAQ, please let us know.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu May 17 23:52:21 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:52:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] neither receiving or sending
In-Reply-To: <464CB35F.5040304@earthlink.net>
References: <464CB35F.5040304@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p06240808c2727eb81519@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/17/07, Michael Rainey wrote:

>  After months of successful use of Mailman 2.1.5 for several lists, my
>  hosting company "accidentally" unistalled Mailman. The have since
>  "reinstalled" it, and it looks like all necessary files in var are there
>  etc.

In /var?  What OS is this?  Is this a binary packaged version of 
Mailman, or did they install it from source?

>  I did run 'newaliases' but no difference.

Did you check to confirm that all your Mailman-related aliases are there?


Beyond that, I'm not sure I can give you any more help at the moment. 
I'll have to think about this some more, and see if anything comes to 
mind.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From rmrainey at earthlink.net  Fri May 18 00:39:09 2007
From: rmrainey at earthlink.net (Michael Rainey)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:39:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] neither receiving or sending
In-Reply-To: <p06240808c2727eb81519@[192.168.1.66]>
References: <464CB35F.5040304@earthlink.net>
	<p06240808c2727eb81519@[192.168.1.66]>
Message-ID: <464CD98D.2040602@earthlink.net>

It is a binary packaged version, Linux, not sure which flavor, always 
assumed Redhat

The aliases are there.

I am ready to tell them to go ahead and do a complete reinstall, but 
want to make sure I have got my subscriber list intact. It should be 
visible to me as admin but is not, and even when I change privacy option 
to list visible to subscribers or to all it doe not let me see.

I rely on CP completely as am novice at SSH and also afraid I will mess 
it up even more. I do have a CP for server and access/ see root there

Two issues:
1. How can I see, retrieve or back up my list (remembering I know how to 
log in with SSH but that's about all)
2. Any other ideas about basic not sending or receiving.

Thank you,

Michael Rainey

Brad Knowles wrote:
> On 5/17/07, Michael Rainey wrote:
>
>>  After months of successful use of Mailman 2.1.5 for several lists, my
>>  hosting company "accidentally" unistalled Mailman. The have since
>>  "reinstalled" it, and it looks like all necessary files in var are 
>> there
>>  etc.
>
> In /var?  What OS is this?  Is this a binary packaged version of 
> Mailman, or did they install it from source?
>
>>  I did run 'newaliases' but no difference.
>
> Did you check to confirm that all your Mailman-related aliases are there?
>
>
> Beyond that, I'm not sure I can give you any more help at the moment. 
> I'll have to think about this some more, and see if anything comes to 
> mind.
>


From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Fri May 18 01:36:32 2007
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 17:36:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help
In-Reply-To: <p06240804c2727c2b7be4@[192.168.1.66]>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAA	AQAAAAAHVyct1eUEKfSFjZaf0uzAEAAAAA@emwd.com>
	<p06240804c2727c2b7be4@[192.168.1.66]>
Message-ID: <464CE700.30601@pauahtun.org>

Hi All--

Brad Knowles wrote:
> 
> Really, these kinds of questions should be directed at your service 
> provider (assuming they installed cPanel for you), or the cPanel 
> folks.  They've made some extensive changes to the Mailman code and 
> haven't contributed those back to us, so our ability to support their 
> package is extremely limited.
> 

That's interesting.  I use Plesk, and have not found anything different 
in my Mailman installation in the Python/HTML and config files other 
than a different base location than an installed-from-source Mailman 
would have.  Everything behaves the way I expect, except for the fact 
that I have to create lists using Plesk, which is not a hardship (and in 
fact it's easier than my much older previous installation from source).

Does anyone know whether or not Plesk has made any changes?

Metta,
Ivan
-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours


From cbraxton at iname.com  Fri May 18 03:54:23 2007
From: cbraxton at iname.com (Carter Braxton)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 20:54:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to configure a list for invitation-only
 subscriptions?
Message-ID: <20070518015423.EE3F016427A@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com>

On 5/17/07, Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Set 'advertised' to 'No' and 'subscribe_policy' to at least 'Require
> approval,' if not 'Confirm and approve.'
>
> Then, send invitations from Member Management > Mass Subscribe. (set
> 'Subscribe these users now or invite them?' to 'invite')

Thanks -- I thought of trying something like that, trouble is that requires that I would have to manually approve all of those who respond to the invitations, and that could potentially be several hundred (kind of a pain).

> (Is there a better way to do any part of this?)

I would think this is a common enough requirement that there would be. My web searches just turned up Mailman-based lists that said they were "invitation-only," but I could find nothing about how to set up that configuration. 

I disabled the "-join" email alias to prevent random subscriptions through that path, but someone could still potentially sign up via the web interface if, say, a member showed them the proper URL. (Maybe edit any of the html files that offer the signup option?)


=
W.E.T. River Trips - raftwet.com
Spring rafting trips on South Fork American. Student discounts.
http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=8359b214a97bff9571aa2104f4d6dfd7


From cbraxton at iname.com  Fri May 18 04:16:49 2007
From: cbraxton at iname.com (Carter Braxton)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 21:16:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to configure a list for invitation-only
 subscriptions?
Message-ID: <20070518021649.D57D31CE304@ws1-6.us4.outblaze.com>

On 5/17/07, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
> This sort of stuff should be covered in FAQ 3.11, and the related FAQ
> entries -- try searching for "announce".

Thank you -- I looked at those section of the FAQ and they don't seem to directly address this issue, they talk about broadcast-only lists, restricting posting to specific users, etc. What I'm looking for is a way to cut off all avenues of someone randomly joining unless they have first been sent an invitation. As I mentioned in another response, so far I've disabled the "-join" email address.

This cuts off one avenue a random user could try to sign up, but there is still the "subscribe" command for the "-request" address, and of course there is the web interface.  For the web interface, editing the html files that offer the subscription option should do the trick. (What file or files are involved?) Not sure if it is possible to selectively disable the "subscribe" command on the email interface, unless the source code is modified.



=
Make Quality Full Color Business Cards
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http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=68472fe15e4c8f00a607b1db12f14618


From srb at umich.edu  Fri May 18 04:27:15 2007
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 22:27:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to configure a list for invitation-only
 subscriptions?
In-Reply-To: <20070518021649.D57D31CE304@ws1-6.us4.outblaze.com>
References: <20070518021649.D57D31CE304@ws1-6.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <8A5959E9E574659C93945878@srb.local>

--On May 17, 2007 9:16:49 PM -0500 Carter Braxton <cbraxton at iname.com> 
wrote:

> This cuts off one avenue a random user could try to sign up, but there is
> still the "subscribe" command for the "-request" address, and of course
> there is the web interface.  For the web interface, editing the html
> files that offer the subscription option should do the trick. (What file
> or files are involved?) Not sure if it is possible to selectively disable
> the "subscribe" command on the email interface, unless the source code is
> modified.

To which I reply:

If you set privacy options->subscribe_policy to either "require approval" 
or "confirm and approve", then it doesn't matter if other subscription 
options are available -- unless you approve subscription requests I think 
that they'll just quietly time out.  Is that not enough?

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri May 18 05:37:03 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 22:37:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help
In-Reply-To: <464CE700.30601@pauahtun.org>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAA
	AQAAAAAHVyct1eUEKfSFjZaf0uzAEAAAAA@emwd.com>
	<p06240804c2727c2b7be4@[192.168.1.66]> <464CE700.30601@pauahtun.org>
Message-ID: <p06240800c272ce715424@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/17/07, Ivan Van Laningham wrote:

>  That's interesting.  I use Plesk, and have not found anything different
>  in my Mailman installation in the Python/HTML and config files other
>  than a different base location than an installed-from-source Mailman
>  would have.  Everything behaves the way I expect, except for the fact
>  that I have to create lists using Plesk, which is not a hardship (and in
>  fact it's easier than my much older previous installation from source).
>
>  Does anyone know whether or not Plesk has made any changes?

I can't say for sure, but I'm not aware of the Plesk folks making any 
material changes to the Mailman code.  However. like most binary 
packagers I would assume that they store things according to the way 
that makes sense to them and not necessarily in the way that you 
would get if you were to install our code directly.


So far as I know, the biggest issue with most Plesk/Mailman 
installations is the *ancient* versions of Python, Mailman, and other 
packages that they install.  I mean, like Mailman 2.0.x.

So, if you want to run a more recent version of Mailman, you'll have 
a rough time installing a more recent version of Python that does not 
interfere with the existing installation (the older version is also 
required for some other things inside of Plesk), plus the newer 
version of Mailman with specific references to the newer & 
non-standard installation of Python, etc....

You can do it if you know what you're doing, and you're able to 
follow all the compatibility dependencies manually, but that's going 
to take a lot of work and jury-rigging.  Of course, all of that will 
mean that you now have a non-standard installation of Plesk, and you 
probably won't be able to get any support from them, or your ISP, and 
so on.  Moreover, upgrading to a newer version of Plesk would un-do 
all that hard work which you would then have to re-do again manually, 
assuming it were actually possible to upgrade Plesk in that kind of 
environment.

It's more of a major operational hassle/support nightmare than anything else.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri May 18 05:39:40 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 22:39:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to configure a list for invitation-only
 subscriptions?
In-Reply-To: <20070518021649.D57D31CE304@ws1-6.us4.outblaze.com>
References: <20070518021649.D57D31CE304@ws1-6.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c272d009b3bd@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/17/07, Carter Braxton wrote:

>  Thank you -- I looked at those section of the FAQ and they don't seem
>  to directly address this issue, they talk about broadcast-only lists,
>  restricting posting to specific users, etc. What I'm looking for is a
>  way to cut off all avenues of someone randomly joining unless they have
>  first been sent an invitation. As I mentioned in another response, so
>  far I've disabled the "-join" email address.

Ahh.  That is a different matter, yes.  I must have missed something 
in the original post, because this was not clear to me.

No, Mailman does not have any method (that I know of) for making 
lists "by invitation only".  You can require approval from the 
Moderator(s) or List Owner(s), but as you observed that's not the 
same thing.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri May 18 05:42:03 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 22:42:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to configure a list for invitation-only
 subscriptions?
In-Reply-To: <8A5959E9E574659C93945878@srb.local>
References: <20070518021649.D57D31CE304@ws1-6.us4.outblaze.com>
	<8A5959E9E574659C93945878@srb.local>
Message-ID: <p06240802c272d086d0f5@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/17/07, Steve Burling wrote:

>  If you set privacy options->subscribe_policy to either "require approval"
>  or "confirm and approve", then it doesn't matter if other subscription
>  options are available -- unless you approve subscription requests I think
>  that they'll just quietly time out.  Is that not enough?

Unless I'm misunderstanding, the OP doesn't want to have to approve 
subscriptions.  He wants to be able to send out invitations, which 
would then be confirmed by the subscriber.  But he doesn't want the 
subscriber to be able to take any kind of action that would result in 
an invitation being sent -- invitations should only be sent as a 
result of direct manual action from the List Owner(s) or Moderator(s).

That is a subtle difference, and so far as I know this is not one 
that Mailman is currently able to resolve.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From cbraxton at iname.com  Fri May 18 06:41:23 2007
From: cbraxton at iname.com (Carter Braxton)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 23:41:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to configure a list for invitation-only
 subscriptions?
Message-ID: <20070518044123.A0D79478077@ws1-5.us4.outblaze.com>

Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
> No, Mailman does not have any method (that I know of) for making 
> lists "by invitation only".  You can require approval from the 
> Moderator(s) or List Owner(s), but as you observed that's not the 
> same thing.

I think I'm getting close -- so far I've done the following:

1. Disabled the "-subscribe" email address for the list.

2. Edited the list info page to remove the signup option and
replaced it with a notice that membership is via invitation only.
(I found the file to modify is /etc/mailman/en/listinfo.html.)

3. Made sure the list is not advertised on the site-wide web page.

4. Used apache to impose a name and password for web access.

This pretty much leaves the "subscribe" option in the email
interface as the remaining loophole. I would need to modify
the Mailman source to remove this keyword, and to modify
the "help" file that users can request. (Anyone know offhand
what files are involved?)

Of course I could just disable the "-request" address for
the list, disabling the email interface entirely. I'm a
little reluctant to do this, though I expect that at this
point most users will want to use "thuh web" to manage
their options.


=
Hurricane Roll Shutters, Accordions
Hurricane shutters, rolling shutters, accordions, storm panels and other products.
http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=8495a62e6dbc71261dcd3c9ac3250199


From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Fri May 18 06:56:35 2007
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 22:56:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c272ce715424@[192.168.1.66]>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAA
	AQAAAAAHVyct1eUEKfSFjZaf0uzAEAAAAA@emwd.com>
	<p06240804c2727c2b7be4@[192.168.1.66]>
	<464CE700.30601@pauahtun.org>
	<p06240800c272ce715424@[192.168.1.66]>
Message-ID: <464D3203.2010104@pauahtun.org>

Hi All--

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
> I can't say for sure, but I'm not aware of the Plesk folks making any 
> material changes to the Mailman code.  However. like most binary 
> packagers I would assume that they store things according to the way 
> that makes sense to them and not necessarily in the way that you would 
> get if you were to install our code directly.
> 

Once you figure out the way things are laid out--and it's not well 
documented--it makes sense.  Paths are long, but that makes creating 
lists for multiple virtual servers a snap.

> 
> So far as I know, the biggest issue with most Plesk/Mailman 
> installations is the *ancient* versions of Python, Mailman, and other 
> packages that they install.  I mean, like Mailman 2.0.x.
> 

They seem to have improved things.  I get my dedicated server from 
Godaddy, and it came with the latest version of Plesk, 8.1.0.  Mailman 
2.1.8, and Python 2.4.3.

> So, if you want to run a more recent version of Mailman, you'll have a 
> rough time installing a more recent version of Python that does not 
> interfere with the existing installation (the older version is also 
> required for some other things inside of Plesk), plus the newer version 
> of Mailman with specific references to the newer & non-standard 
> installation of Python, etc....
> 
> You can do it if you know what you're doing, and you're able to follow 
> all the compatibility dependencies manually, but that's going to take a 
> lot of work and jury-rigging.  Of course, all of that will mean that you 
> now have a non-standard installation of Plesk, and you probably won't be 
> able to get any support from them, or your ISP, and so on.

I already don't get any support from Godaddy.  They have some FAQs and I 
can call or email, but their answers are, "Wait until our mail server is 
back up to speed," or "We don't make you use that software, so we don't 
support it."

That said, the webtools they provide and the automated services they 
offer do work, often with very little prodding.

 > Moreover,
> upgrading to a newer version of Plesk would un-do all that hard work 
> which you would then have to re-do again manually, assuming it were 
> actually possible to upgrade Plesk in that kind of environment.
> 

I've already customized the snot out of my Mailman installation.  I back 
everything up twice.  If I had to install from scratch, I don't see any 
reason I couldn't get going in a day.

> It's more of a major operational hassle/support nightmare than anything 
> else.
> 

My suspicion is that any changes they've made are in the area of 
creating lists.  I haven't had a chance to investigate how that's done 
and how Plesk ties into it, but I plan to.  (After I get the 
certificates straightened out, and after I get rid of the 5,000 empty 
emails with no subject in the archives of one of my lists.)

Metta,
Ivan
-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri May 18 07:24:30 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 00:24:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help
In-Reply-To: <464D3203.2010104@pauahtun.org>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAA
	AQAAAAAHVyct1eUEKfSFjZaf0uzAEAAAAA@emwd.com>
	<p06240804c2727c2b7be4@[192.168.1.66]>	<464CE700.30601@pauahtun.org>
	<p06240800c272ce715424@[192.168.1.66]> <464D3203.2010104@pauahtun.org>
Message-ID: <p06240800c272e7f24e68@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/17/07, Ivan Van Laningham wrote:

>  They seem to have improved things.  I get my dedicated server from
>  Godaddy, and it came with the latest version of Plesk, 8.1.0.  Mailman
>  2.1.8, and Python 2.4.3.

Well, Mailman 2.1.8 has security issues, so you'll need to make sure 
to update that to 2.1.9.  It would be nice if they'd find out about 
these things and do them for you, or stick with an earlier version 
which may have been minus some of the newer features but also didn't 
have the security holes.

>  I already don't get any support from Godaddy.  They have some FAQs and I
>  can call or email, but their answers are, "Wait until our mail server is
>  back up to speed," or "We don't make you use that software, so we don't
>  support it."

Kinda what I figured.

I guess the bigger issue here is that most people using these kinds 
of systems are unlikely to have the skills necessary to be able to 
upgrade things under the Plesk hood and still keep Plesk working.


Heck, I've worked on these kinds of systems myself, and since I don't 
know how Plesk does a lot of things internally, even I don't know for 
sure if I could do that kind of thing -- with reasonable guarantees 
that it would all keep working correctly.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From james at freecharity.org.uk  Fri May 18 12:13:47 2007
From: james at freecharity.org.uk (James Davis)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 11:13:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] TypeError: decoding Unicode is not supported
Message-ID: <464D7C5B.3050905@freecharity.org.uk>

mailman 2.1.5-8sarge5 running on Debian 4.0. It's actually a custom
package I built myself with only minor changes for my mail environment.

It's an odd one... A search of Google and the archives shows that it's
been discussed before but with no definitive answer. One user is having
problems posting to a list. Mailman's error log shows the following
error, the e-mail which caused the problem is also supplied below.

Any idea what's causing this problem?

Thanks,

James

May 18 09:50:13 2007 (29323) Uncaught runner exception: decoding Unicode
is not supported
May 18 09:50:13 2007 (29323) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
_dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
_dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 91, in process
    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in
send_digests
    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306, in
send_i18n_digests
    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 318, in process
    partcharset = part.get_content_charset()
  File "email/Message.py", line 800, in get_content_charset
TypeError: decoding Unicode is not supported

May 18 09:50:13 2007 (29323) SHUNTING:
1179478212.3616531+d13a31b783297c1f32c72ac08da016a012618db4

Here's the e-mail that caused the error.

Return-path: <stefan.laros at yahoo.co.uk>
Envelope-to: support at freecharity.org.uk
Delivery-date: Fri, 18 May 2007 09:50:11 +0100
Received: from web25413.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.176.231])
	by freecharity.org.uk with smtp (Exim 4.63)
	(envelope-from <stefan.laros at yahoo.co.uk>)
	id 1HoyA5-0002yc-4y
	for support at freecharity.org.uk; Fri, 18 May 2007 09:50:11 +0100
Received: (qmail 17787 invoked by uid 60001); 18 May 2007 08:50:09 -0000
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
  s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk;

h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID;

b=TdkF35y16JDEIDEuLY4cGmrqstW67SrzR6Oj1Pa1Fc06qQZQFQx030h9xSizSQqXW/c5l9iDUCR9fCDlaR4yfzl8r7J/5vFS3F0UWj6NNGrqRnDTTe97jnOI7EVkaGK5qlJd7WcHhiGtR18sYPc+IacwfC8bVeuaECjzrq8P7cU=;
X-YMail-OSG:
CDYiRqkVM1lWc7oO9wflIqiW8_jrhpJzkYW.kGwhGMoYZtkKTIImK3OMRH0uKk0Hm6dMHimPwA--
Received: from [195.110.70.55] by web25413.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP;
Fri, 18 May 2007 08:50:08 GMT
X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.23.1 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.14
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 08:50:08 +0000 (GMT)
From: Stefan Laros <stefan.laros at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Symphony
To: lgso-rehearsals at freecharity.org.uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="0-707090045-1179478208=:17471"
Message-ID: <2399.17471.qm at web25413.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+)
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0
tests=DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE,DNS_FROM_RFC_POST,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no
version=_VERSION

--0-707090045-1179478208=:17471
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii

All,

Further to my earlier e-mails: we will only be rehearsing the symphony
this Sunday!

See you then & there.

Stefan
--0-707090045-1179478208=:17471
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ascii

<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;}
--></style></head><body><div style="font-family:arial, helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><DIV></DIV>
<DIV>

<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>All,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Further to my earlier e-mails: we will only be rehearsing the
symphony this&nbsp;Sunday!<BR></DIV>
<DIV>See you then &amp; there.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV>Stefan</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></DIV></div></body></html>
--0-707090045-1179478208=:17471--

-- 
http://www.freecharity.org.uk/ - Free IT services for charities
http://www.freecharity.org.uk/wiki/ - The VCSWiki

From brian at emwd.com  Fri May 18 16:16:27 2007
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 10:16:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help
In-Reply-To: <464CE700.30601@pauahtun.org>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAAAQAAAASIn5AVFDaUaavtcfb5ypPgEAAAAA@emwd.com>

Just to let everyone know I am going with the following solution:

Hypermail (http://www.hypermail.org/) for archiving and Sphider
(http://cs.ioc.ee/~ando/sphider/) as the search engine.

Since cPanel would overwrite any changes or patches I would make to the
mailman installation whenever a new version would come out, I decided to nix
the idea of using a custom patch applied to my mailman installation. I
rather use a third party solution such as above to create archives on a list
by list basis.

My programmer will be doing the installation and configuration and will be
detailing the steps to setup searchable archives outside of mailman's
installation directory. Would this be something worthwhile to add to the
Mailman FAQ?

Kind regards,
Brian Carpenter
--------------------------------------
EMWD -  Executive Officer



-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Ivan
Van Laningham
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 7:37 PM
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help


Hi All--

Brad Knowles wrote:
> 
> Really, these kinds of questions should be directed at your service
> provider (assuming they installed cPanel for you), or the cPanel 
> folks.  They've made some extensive changes to the Mailman code and 
> haven't contributed those back to us, so our ability to support their 
> package is extremely limited.
> 

That's interesting.  I use Plesk, and have not found anything different 
in my Mailman installation in the Python/HTML and config files other 
than a different base location than an installed-from-source Mailman 
would have.  Everything behaves the way I expect, except for the fact 
that I have to create lists using Plesk, which is not a hardship (and in 
fact it's easier than my much older previous installation from source).

Does anyone know whether or not Plesk has made any changes?

Metta,
Ivan
-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningh
am.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brian%40emwd.com

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From brian at emwd.com  Fri May 18 16:26:14 2007
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 10:26:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suprised unsubscribes
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAAAQAAAA+3ma75f3A02brNpPRb8fXQEAAAAA@emwd.com>

Hi List:
 
I had a client report to me this morning that several of his lists
mysteriously unsubscribed members of the list without their permission or
interventions. As far as I can tell these members were not generating any
bounces. I checked the FAQ and archives of this list but I found nothing
that would explain this behavior.
 
Could there be any other possible reasons for this other than:
 
1. Intentional action by member
2. Intentional action by administrator
3. Bounce removal
 
Any insight would be helpful. Thanks.
 

Kind regards,

Brian Carpenter

--------------------------------------

EMWD -  Executive Officer

 

 

From barry at python.org  Fri May 18 16:29:22 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 10:29:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAAAQAAAASIn5AVFDaUaavtcfb5ypPgEAAAAA@emwd.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAAAQAAAASIn5AVFDaUaavtcfb5ypPgEAAAAA@emwd.com>
Message-ID: <328DD41B-5F6D-46B2-87A4-A678500A4BAD@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On May 18, 2007, at 10:16 AM, Brian Carpenter wrote:

> My programmer will be doing the installation and configuration and  
> will be
> detailing the steps to setup searchable archives outside of mailman's
> installation directory. Would this be something worthwhile to add  
> to the
> Mailman FAQ?

That or the Mailman wiki <wiki.list.org>

Please do!
- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin)

iQCVAwUBRk24Q3EjvBPtnXfVAQKs4wP/adIoVQmyjPaWCOjykxkVIBHZ2g5S29d0
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bomJE3Vf8tfLOOhNxcCXVvulPShNeLgmjejqeQxERiWfIJTZ//A/UQwJMe6GRRCi
ZfLIxkxkJgM=
=RhEi
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From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Fri May 18 17:25:05 2007
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 09:25:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help
In-Reply-To: <328DD41B-5F6D-46B2-87A4-A678500A4BAD@python.org>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAAAQAAAASIn5AVFDaUaavtcfb5ypPgEAAAAA@emwd.com>
	<328DD41B-5F6D-46B2-87A4-A678500A4BAD@python.org>
Message-ID: <464DC551.5080906@pauahtun.org>

Hi All--
Brian, will these be publicly searchable and publicly accessible 
archives?  I would like to make my private archives searchable, but only 
by subscribed members.  Either way, however, you should certainly update 
the FAQ/Wiki.

Metta,
Ivan

Barry Warsaw wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On May 18, 2007, at 10:16 AM, Brian Carpenter wrote:
> 
>> My programmer will be doing the installation and configuration and 
>> will be
>> detailing the steps to setup searchable archives outside of mailman's
>> installation directory. Would this be something worthwhile to add to the
>> Mailman FAQ?
> 
> That or the Mailman wiki <wiki.list.org>
> 
> Please do!
> - -Barry
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin)
> 
> iQCVAwUBRk24Q3EjvBPtnXfVAQKs4wP/adIoVQmyjPaWCOjykxkVIBHZ2g5S29d0
> I4fNuHvJIdSb+ikalsHJjMh5U+PoM9AUbBiKQWxQfaOmgJKBUQS3ngRLRUv/pbvG
> bomJE3Vf8tfLOOhNxcCXVvulPShNeLgmjejqeQxERiWfIJTZ//A/UQwJMe6GRRCi
> ZfLIxkxkJgM=
> =RhEi
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 

-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours


From brian at emwd.com  Fri May 18 18:04:00 2007
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 12:04:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help
In-Reply-To: <464DC551.5080906@pauahtun.org>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAAAQAAAAb5k9HZRg3E6GbwpXtWezaQEAAAAA@emwd.com>

Only if the client wants it. If they want it private then setting them up
with password protection via .htaccess is easy enough.

Kind regards,
Brian Carpenter
--------------------------------------
EMWD -  Executive Officer



-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Ivan
Van Laningham
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 11:25 AM
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help


Hi All--
Brian, will these be publicly searchable and publicly accessible 
archives?  I would like to make my private archives searchable, but only 
by subscribed members.  Either way, however, you should certainly update 
the FAQ/Wiki.

Metta,
Ivan

Barry Warsaw wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On May 18, 2007, at 10:16 AM, Brian Carpenter wrote:
> 
>> My programmer will be doing the installation and configuration and
>> will be
>> detailing the steps to setup searchable archives outside of mailman's
>> installation directory. Would this be something worthwhile to add to the
>> Mailman FAQ?
> 
> That or the Mailman wiki <wiki.list.org>
> 
> Please do!
> - -Barry
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin)
> 
> iQCVAwUBRk24Q3EjvBPtnXfVAQKs4wP/adIoVQmyjPaWCOjykxkVIBHZ2g5S29d0
> I4fNuHvJIdSb+ikalsHJjMh5U+PoM9AUbBiKQWxQfaOmgJKBUQS3ngRLRUv/pbvG
> bomJE3Vf8tfLOOhNxcCXVvulPShNeLgmjejqeQxERiWfIJTZ//A/UQwJMe6GRRCi
> ZfLIxkxkJgM=
> =RhEi
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 

-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningh
am.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
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Unsubscribe:
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From msapiro at value.net  Fri May 18 18:59:26 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 09:59:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HOWTO for easy subscribe/unsubscribe via a
	simplewebform
In-Reply-To: <464AD43E.5010104@goldfisch.at>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705180959260593e19c70cb@msapiro>

peter pilsl wrote:
>
>Unfortunately the Unsubscribe still gives me a headache. Creating a simple 
>webform seems to be almost impossible, cause the unsubscribe-link needs to 
>contain the users mailadress and does not respect the "confirmation needed for 
>unsubscription"-settings in the list-options


The "confirmation needed for unsubscription"-settings in the
list-options controls whether or not a list admin or moderator must
approve the unsubscription. It does not control whether or not the
user has to confirm an unsubscription request.

In order to prevent users from being onsubscribed by third parties
without their consent, Mailman requires the any unsubscription request
that does not come from the list admin interface or the password
authenticated user be confirmed by the user's response to a
confirmation email.

If you want to bypass this confirmation, you need to submit the request
for example as though it came from the admin mass removal page with
the list admin or moderator password or from the user options page
with the user's or the list admin or moderator password.

See the whole thread starting at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-December/041213.html>
for more information.


>
>http://<SERVERNAME>/mailman/options/<LISTNAME>/<ADRESS>?unsub=Unsubscribe;unsubconfirm=1


The above needs a password to avoid confirmation. See the referenced
thread.


>And I didnt find a way to customize the unsubscribe-result-html-page


It is built on the fly by code/data in Mailman/Cgi/options.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri May 18 19:26:56 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 10:26:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please help with some list options...
In-Reply-To: <200705162123.l4GLNOvb026546@ns2.elektro.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070518102656025060c8ef92@msapiro>

Mailman Users wrote:
>
>    Then install your modified option file:
>    bin/config_list -i data/YourListName.cfg YourListName


Just in case anyone doesn't realize it, it is not necessary to provide
bin/config_list with a complete configuration. It is sufficient to
include in the input only the things you wish to change.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri May 18 19:55:37 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 10:55:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 'Discard all messages marked Defer' not working
In-Reply-To: <20070516212612.GS6999@niof.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602007051810553702659ac4714e@msapiro>

Rick Pasotto wrote:

>On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 03:45:42PM -0400, Rick Pasotto wrote:
>> It doesn't work for subscription requests. It still works fine for
>> posts.
>> 
>> On a page that had one of each the post was discarded but not the
>> subscription request. On a page with just a subscription request
>> nothing at all happens.
>> 
>> Using 2.1.9 on debian.
>
>It just occurred to me that 'messages' != 'administrative requests'
>which is how I was reading it.
>
>If that is in fact the intent, is there some way it could be made
>clearer? It certainly makes no sense to have the option when there are
>no messages to which it would apply though I do recognize the difficulty
>of programming that.


Yes, it is the intent that it apply only to 'messages'.

Do you have a suggestion as to how to make it more clear?

I agree that it doesn't make sense to offer the option when there are
no messages on the page, but as you recognize, this would require an
initial extra pass through the requests as the page is currently built
sequentially, and the checkbox at the top is created before we know if
any of the requests are 'messages'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri May 18 20:32:00 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 11:32:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to configure a list for
	invitation-onlysubscriptions?
In-Reply-To: <20070518015423.EE3F016427A@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070518113200009327b4507d@msapiro>

Carter Braxton wrote:
>
>Thanks -- I thought of trying something like that, trouble is that requires that I would have to manually approve all of those who respond to the invitations, and that could potentially be several hundred (kind of a pain).


No it doesn't. Regardless of subscribe_policy, invitations only have to
be accepted by the user. Further confirmation or approval is not
required.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri May 18 20:50:56 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 11:50:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to configure a list for
	invitation-onlysubscriptions?
In-Reply-To: <20070518044123.A0D79478077@ws1-5.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705181150560093d45ea775@msapiro>

Carter Braxton wrote:
>
>I think I'm getting close -- so far I've done the following:
>
>1. Disabled the "-subscribe" email address for the list.
>
>2. Edited the list info page to remove the signup option and
>replaced it with a notice that membership is via invitation only.
>(I found the file to modify is /etc/mailman/en/listinfo.html.)
>
>3. Made sure the list is not advertised on the site-wide web page.
>
>4. Used apache to impose a name and password for web access.
>
>This pretty much leaves the "subscribe" option in the email
>interface as the remaining loophole. I would need to modify
>the Mailman source to remove this keyword, and to modify
>the "help" file that users can request. (Anyone know offhand
>what files are involved?)
>
>Of course I could just disable the "-request" address for
>the list, disabling the email interface entirely. I'm a
>little reluctant to do this, though I expect that at this
>point most users will want to use "thuh web" to manage
>their options.


You really don't need to go to all this trouble. Just set
subscribe_policy to approve or confirm and approve and manually
discard any held subscription requests.

Acceptance of an invitation is not held, so that is not an issue. I
really don't think there would be so many subscribe requests that
discarding them via the admindb interface would be an issue.

If you really want to disable the subscribe email command, just change
Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py to respond that subscription is by
invitation only. That will take care of subscribe commande to -request
as well as mail to -subscribe and -join.

If you want to remove the subscribe info from the help command, you can
just remove

def gethelp(mlist):
    return _(__doc__)

from Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py. Or you can change the doc
string in that module to provide an alternate message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From matt.l.zimmerman at gmail.com  Fri May 18 21:07:35 2007
From: matt.l.zimmerman at gmail.com (Matt Zimmerman)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 15:07:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and LDAP
Message-ID: <50852730705181207q303d8f75lbe9b0b9df81b0589@mail.gmail.com>

I am using Mailman 2.19. Has written any scripts to sync Mailing lists with
LDAP? Just wondering.

Thanks,

Matt Zimmerman

From msapiro at value.net  Fri May 18 21:11:33 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 12:11:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how can i simulate mailman pages
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00705171441r68a08fd4y7d1b49bb7d0fafdc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705181211330390f5c28de7@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
>> i tested it, but it does not work and i don't know
>> why.
>
>The problem is probably that the /admin/* pages require the list or
>site admin password to be in a cookie, and normal users aren't going
>to have that.


It can also be provided in the POST data. See for example the thread at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-December/041213.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri May 18 21:31:09 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 12:31:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] neither receiving or sending
In-Reply-To: <464CD98D.2040602@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705181231090296ccf269f1@msapiro>

Michael Rainey wrote:

>It is a binary packaged version, Linux, not sure which flavor, always 
>assumed Redhat


If it's RedHat with Mailman 2.1.5, the installation is probably in
/var/mailman an the log files in /var/log/mailman.


>The aliases are there.
>
>I am ready to tell them to go ahead and do a complete reinstall, but 
>want to make sure I have got my subscriber list intact. It should be 
>visible to me as admin but is not, and even when I change privacy option 
>to list visible to subscribers or to all it doe not let me see.


Can you see the membership on the admin membership list?

The roster doesn't show hidden members regardless of who requests it
(this will be fixed in 2.1.10).

Don't do the reinstall untill you have gone through
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>.
My guess as the most likely problem is the qrunners aren't running
(item 1b in the FAQ). You may not be able to do some things like
bin/check_perms, but check the things you can.


>I rely on CP completely as am novice at SSH and also afraid I will mess 
>it up even more. I do have a CP for server and access/ see root there
>
>Two issues:
>1. How can I see, retrieve or back up my list (remembering I know how to 
>log in with SSH but that's about all)


/var/mailman/lists/<listname>/config.pck (assuming I have the first
part of the path right) has all the list settings, the membership list
and all the member options.

/var/mailman/archives/private/<listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox has all
you need to rebuild the archives with /var/mailman/bin/arch, and the
already built archives are in /var/mailman/archives/private/<listname>/


>2. Any other ideas about basic not sending or receiving.


The above referenced FAQ article.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri May 18 21:51:28 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 12:51:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] TypeError: decoding Unicode is not supported
In-Reply-To: <464D7C5B.3050905@freecharity.org.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705181251280562a087998e@msapiro>

James Davis wrote:
>
>It's an odd one... A search of Google and the archives shows that it's
>been discussed before but with no definitive answer. One user is having
>problems posting to a list. Mailman's error log shows the following
>error, the e-mail which caused the problem is also supplied below.
>
>Any idea what's causing this problem?


The shunted message is not the one causing the problem. It will happen
to every message from now on as the problem is caused by some prior
message in lists/<listname>/digest.mbox.

If you move the digest.mbox aside, the list will start processing again
and you can run bin/unshunt to process the shunted messages.

The "best way" to fix it is to edit the digest.mbox in place and fix
the offending message (which may have a Content-Type: header with
charset=Unicode instead of charset=utf-8), and then unshunt any
messages that were shunted due to this error.

If you just move digest.mbox aside and don't replace it, you'll lose a
digest. even if you do fix and replace it, you may wind up with and
'out of sequence' digest.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri May 18 22:00:45 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 13:00:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suprised unsubscribes
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAAAQAAAA+3ma75f3A02brNpPRb8fXQEAAAAA@emwd.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705181300450593565390de@msapiro>

Brian Carpenter wrote:
> 
>I had a client report to me this morning that several of his lists
>mysteriously unsubscribed members of the list without their permission or
>interventions. As far as I can tell these members were not generating any
>bounces. I checked the FAQ and archives of this list but I found nothing
>that would explain this behavior.
> 
>Could there be any other possible reasons for this other than:
> 
>1. Intentional action by member
>2. Intentional action by administrator
>3. Bounce removal


Check Mailman's subscribe log? The unsubscribes and reasons should be
there.

Members with stale bounce info can be disabled (or unsubscribed if
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 0) if bounce_score_threshold is
lowered to a value <= the member's stale bounce score.

I suppose you could add to your list 'intentional action by a third
party who somehow compromised user passwords, the list admin password
or the site password or found an unknown security hole'. I don't think
this is likely, particularly the security hole.	
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri May 18 22:11:13 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 13:11:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and LDAP
In-Reply-To: <50852730705181207q303d8f75lbe9b0b9df81b0589@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007051813111304536a25f032@msapiro>

Matt Zimmerman wrote:

>I am using Mailman 2.19. Has written any scripts to sync Mailing lists with
>LDAP? Just wondering.


Get your membership list from LDAP and use bin/sync_members to update
Mailman.


You might also be interested in
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=871062&group_id=103&atid=300103>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brian at emwd.com  Fri May 18 23:51:23 2007
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 17:51:23 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suprised unsubscribes
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705181300450593565390de@msapiro>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAAAQAAAAe18kqU2Ns0en8k6t7m0HRwEAAAAA@emwd.com>

Thanks Mark. You led to me to the answer. Actually here is what happended.

Client subscribed an e-mail forwarded to a list. This e-mail forwarder
forwards to some other mailing lists. Well someone unsubscribed the e-mail
forwarded from a list and the unsubscribe notification was sent to it and
then forwarded on to some other mailing lists. So people from these other
lists also receive unsubscribe notifications and panic.

"The answer my friend is blowing in the wind (log files), the answer is
blowing in the wind (log files)."

Kind regards,
Brian Carpenter
--------------------------------------
EMWD -  Executive Officer



-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 4:01 PM
To: Brian Carpenter; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Suprised unsubscribes


Brian Carpenter wrote:
> 
>I had a client report to me this morning that several of his lists 
>mysteriously unsubscribed members of the list without their permission 
>or interventions. As far as I can tell these members were not 
>generating any bounces. I checked the FAQ and archives of this list but 
>I found nothing that would explain this behavior.
> 
>Could there be any other possible reasons for this other than:
> 
>1. Intentional action by member
>2. Intentional action by administrator
>3. Bounce removal


Check Mailman's subscribe log? The unsubscribes and reasons should be there.

Members with stale bounce info can be disabled (or unsubscribed if
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 0) if bounce_score_threshold is lowered
to a value <= the member's stale bounce score.

I suppose you could add to your list 'intentional action by a third party
who somehow compromised user passwords, the list admin password or the site
password or found an unknown security hole'. I don't think
this is likely, particularly the security hole.	
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From eino at utu.fi  Sat May 19 08:01:58 2007
From: eino at utu.fi (Eino Tuominen)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 09:01:58 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and LDAP
In-Reply-To: <50852730705181207q303d8f75lbe9b0b9df81b0589@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50852730705181207q303d8f75lbe9b0b9df81b0589@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <464E92D6.9020202@utu.fi>

Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> I am using Mailman 2.19. Has written any scripts to sync Mailing lists with
> LDAP? Just wondering.

You didn't specify if you want to sync lists (list addresses) or list
memberships.

For former, I have written some modules that let Mailman create
LDAP-entries for the lists. I have not had time to make it a patch and
document it, but contact me off list if you want the code.

-- 
  Eino Tuominen

From cbraxton at iname.com  Sat May 19 15:59:37 2007
From: cbraxton at iname.com (Carter Braxton)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 08:59:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to configure a list for
 invitation-onlysubscriptions?
Message-ID: <20070519135937.C980F16427B@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com>

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> You really don't need to go to all this trouble. Just set
> subscribe_policy to approve or confirm and approve and manually
> discard any held subscription requests.

Thanks, I didn't realize that invitations would not be subject to the manual approval process.

> If you really want to disable the subscribe email command, just change
> Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py to respond that subscription is by
> invitation only. That will take care of subscribe commande to -request
> as well as mail to -subscribe and -join.

Exactly what I was looking for -- having already made the other modifications, might as well do this one as well to lock it down as much as possible.


=
NUS Consulting Group - Energy Management
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http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=b806c2c606eaba456206d245ed27fabb


From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Sat May 19 17:48:49 2007
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 09:48:49 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "No subject" messages in archives
Message-ID: <464F1C61.50101@pauahtun.org>

Hi All--
I have managed to recover and restore all the archives, covering eight 
or nine years, for all my mailing lists, following the excellent advice 
and pointers given by members of this list.

But I have one list for which I used archives from two previous 
incarnations of the list, plus the current archive mbox, as input to 
arch.  I made sure that the previous archives were in mbox format and 
that they contained only one "From " line per message.  Once I was 
convinced they were all ready, I combined the old archive mbox with the 
current archive mbox using cat, and ran arch.

It worked perfectly, creating archive pages going all the way back to 
1999, except that in the archive page for the month in which I ran arch 
(May) for the day on which I ran it (May 7), I have in the vicinity of 
5000 entries for messages with "No subject" and no body.  The index page 
for May looks like this:

# [Guppies] Malice 2008   Suzanne Williams
# No subject
# No subject
# No subject
... 5000 entries
# No subject
# No subject
# [Guppies] harsh words for cheating   peg908 at aol.com
# [Guppies] harsh words for cheating   Vwright

I tried to find these mysterious entries in the current archive mbox, 
but they don't appear.  The _only_ thing I can see, in the current mbox, 
is that the end of the last message from the old archives ends on one 
line and the "From " line for the next message begins on the very next 
line, with no blank lines between, and everywhere else there are either 
one or more blank lines or one of those message separator lines from 
AOL: 
 >"----------MB_8C9379FAFA8ECEC_DAC_6C2A_WEBMAIL-MC05.sysops.aol.com--"<

These bogus entries aren't really hurting anything, I suppose, but they 
are annoying and it is irritating to have to scroll down 5000 lines to 
get to the next real message.

What is causing this?  And is there anything I can do to get rid of the 
problem?  I am willing to live with it if I have to, but I would prefer 
having a fix.

Thanks!

Metta,
Ivan
-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

From msapiro at value.net  Sat May 19 19:33:01 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 10:33:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "No subject" messages in archives
In-Reply-To: <464F1C61.50101@pauahtun.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602007051910330103128a507bf9@msapiro>

Ivan Van Laningham wrote:
>
>But I have one list for which I used archives from two previous 
>incarnations of the list, plus the current archive mbox, as input to 
>arch.  I made sure that the previous archives were in mbox format and 
>that they contained only one "From " line per message.


Are you sure? Did you run bin/cleanarch against the .mbox file to check
it?

>Once I was 
>convinced they were all ready, I combined the old archive mbox with the 
>current archive mbox using cat, and ran arch.
>
>It worked perfectly, creating archive pages going all the way back to 
>1999, except that in the archive page for the month in which I ran arch 
>(May) for the day on which I ran it (May 7), I have in the vicinity of 
>5000 entries for messages with "No subject" and no body.  The index page 
>for May looks like this:
>
># [Guppies] Malice 2008   Suzanne Williams
># No subject
># No subject
># No subject
>... 5000 entries
># No subject
># No subject
># [Guppies] harsh words for cheating   peg908 at aol.com
># [Guppies] harsh words for cheating   Vwright


This usually results from a message containing an embedded "From "
somewhere in the message body. The message is archived properly under
its correct date and subject, but that entry is truncated at the line
that begins with "From ". Then the rest of the message is archived as
a separate message. Since it has no From:, Subject: or Date: headers,
it is archived with the current date and no subject. Also , text
following the "From " up to the first totally empty (not just blank)
line is considered part of the header and is not archived with this
'second' message.


>I tried to find these mysterious entries in the current archive mbox, 
>but they don't appear.


If there is any message body text in the 'No subject' archived entry,
you should be able to find that in the .mbox.


>The _only_ thing I can see, in the current mbox, 
>is that the end of the last message from the old archives ends on one 
>line and the "From " line for the next message begins on the very next 
>line, with no blank lines between,


That shouldn't cause this.


>and everywhere else there are either 
>one or more blank lines or one of those message separator lines from 
>AOL: 
> >"----------MB_8C9379FAFA8ECEC_DAC_6C2A_WEBMAIL-MC05.sysops.aol.com--"<
>
>These bogus entries aren't really hurting anything, I suppose, but they 
>are annoying and it is irritating to have to scroll down 5000 lines to 
>get to the next real message.


They are actually, because they represent missing pieces of other
messages.


>What is causing this?  And is there anything I can do to get rid of the 
>problem?  I am willing to live with it if I have to, but I would prefer 
>having a fix.


I think you have unescaped "From " lines in the bodies of messages. Run
bin/cleanarch (with the -n/--dry-run option) to check.

Another possibility is you have real looking but extraneous
(duplicate?) "From " lines not followed by a real message with
Subject: and Date: headers prior to the next "From ".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Sun May 20 13:41:14 2007
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 05:41:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "No subject" messages in archives
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007051910330103128a507bf9@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007051910330103128a507bf9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <465033DA.60809@pauahtun.org>

Hi All--

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Ivan Van Laningham wrote:
>> But I have one list for which I used archives from two previous 
>> incarnations of the list, plus the current archive mbox, as input to 
>> arch.  I made sure that the previous archives were in mbox format and 
>> that they contained only one "From " line per message.
> 
> 
> Are you sure? Did you run bin/cleanarch against the .mbox file to check
> it?
> 

I ran cleanarch, yes, but all it did was to escape every single "From " 
line, which would make arch think there was only one message.


> 
> This usually results from a message containing an embedded "From "
> somewhere in the message body. The message is archived properly under
> its correct date and subject, but that entry is truncated at the line
> that begins with "From ". Then the rest of the message is archived as
> a separate message. Since it has no From:, Subject: or Date: headers,
> it is archived with the current date and no subject. Also , text
> following the "From " up to the first totally empty (not just blank)
> line is considered part of the header and is not archived with this
> 'second' message.
> 

That would describe what I'm seeing, except that--
>  
> If there is any message body text in the 'No subject' archived entry,
> you should be able to find that in the .mbox.
> 

Right, but there are 5,000 entries with "No subject" and no body, not a 
hint of a body.

> 
>> The _only_ thing I can see, in the current mbox, 
>> is that the end of the last message from the old archives ends on one 
>> line and the "From " line for the next message begins on the very next 
>> line, with no blank lines between,
> 
> 
> That shouldn't cause this.
> 

Good to know.

> 
>> and everywhere else there are either 
>> one or more blank lines or one of those message separator lines from 
>> AOL: 
>>> "----------MB_8C9379FAFA8ECEC_DAC_6C2A_WEBMAIL-MC05.sysops.aol.com--"<
>> These bogus entries aren't really hurting anything, I suppose, but they 
>> are annoying and it is irritating to have to scroll down 5000 lines to 
>> get to the next real message.
> 
> 
> They are actually, because they represent missing pieces of other
> messages.
> 

How to track them down?

> 
>> What is causing this?  And is there anything I can do to get rid of the 
>> problem?  I am willing to live with it if I have to, but I would prefer 
>> having a fix.
> 
> 
> I think you have unescaped "From " lines in the bodies of messages. Run
> bin/cleanarch (with the -n/--dry-run option) to check.
> 
> Another possibility is you have real looking but extraneous
> (duplicate?) "From " lines not followed by a real message with
> Subject: and Date: headers prior to the next "From ".
> 

Do lines beginning with whitespace before a From count?  There are about 
a hundred of those in the input mbox.

Metta,
Ivan
-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

From james at freecharity.org.uk  Sun May 20 15:46:28 2007
From: james at freecharity.org.uk (James Davis)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 14:46:28 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] TypeError: decoding Unicode is not supported
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705181251280562a087998e@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200705181251280562a087998e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <46505134.3010307@freecharity.org.uk>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> If you just move digest.mbox aside and don't replace it, you'll lose a
> digest. even if you do fix and replace it, you may wind up with and
> 'out of sequence' digest.

Thanks, that did the trick. I deleted the digest as it serves no purpose 
to the users of this list.

Thank you once again,

James

From msapiro at value.net  Sun May 20 17:23:21 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 08:23:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] TypeError: decoding Unicode is not supported
In-Reply-To: <46505134.3010307@freecharity.org.uk>
Message-ID: <PC17602007052008232102969ad20f3d@msapiro>

James Davis wrote:
>
>Thanks, that did the trick. I deleted the digest as it serves no purpose 
>to the users of this list.


In that case, you could set Digest options->digestable to No to
guarantee this can't happen again (note that the shunting of valid
messages due to a bad digest.mbox message was fixed in Mailman 2.1.7).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sun May 20 17:51:16 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 08:51:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "No subject" messages in archives
In-Reply-To: <465033DA.60809@pauahtun.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705200851160187512ae68b@msapiro>

Ivan Van Laningham wrote:
>
>I ran cleanarch, yes, but all it did was to escape every single "From " 
>line, which would make arch think there was only one message.



Then either the From line doesn't match the pattern
mailbox.UnixMailbox._fromlinepattern or it is not followed immediately
(with no intervening lines or maybe even '\r') by a line that looks
like a message header.

If there is intervening whitespace between the "From " line and the
message headers, that may cause the spurious archived empty messages.



>Do lines beginning with whitespace before a From count?  There are about 
>a hundred of those in the input mbox.


They shouldn't be a problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Mon May 21 15:12:13 2007
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 07:12:13 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "No subject" messages in archives
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705200851160187512ae68b@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200705200851160187512ae68b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <46519AAD.7090409@pauahtun.org>

Hi All--

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Ivan Van Laningham wrote:
>> I ran cleanarch, yes, but all it did was to escape every single "From " 
>> line, which would make arch think there was only one message.
> 
> 
> 
> Then either the From line doesn't match the pattern
> mailbox.UnixMailbox._fromlinepattern or it is not followed immediately
> (with no intervening lines or maybe even '\r') by a line that looks
> like a message header.
> 
> If there is intervening whitespace between the "From " line and the
> message headers, that may cause the spurious archived empty messages.
> 

Ah.  Now we're getting somewhere.  Here are some sample "From " lines:

1)  From the current list.mbox (leading '> ' not part of actual line):
 > From Lizzelvin at aol.com Sun Mar 18 18:17:56 2007
2)  From the old mbox which I want to incorporate (leading '> ' inserted):
 > From "robyn m. fritz" <rfritz at nwlink.com>
or
 > From Mochie at webtv.net (C Ryplansky)

And here is the _fromlinepattern:

_fromlinepattern = r"From \s*[^\s]+\s+\w\w\w\s+\w\w\w\s+\d?\d\s+" \
                    r"\d?\d:\d\d(:\d\d)?(\s+[^\s]+)?\s+\d\d\d\d\s*$"

Now, I don't understand much of this pattern, but it looks to me as if 
a) there's no provision for matching " or < or > characters; and
b) some sort of date/time mark is required.

All the "From " lines are terminated with a \n, and all are followed 
immediately by what look like valid message header lines, so I don't 
think those are problems.  There do appear to be 1006 unescaped "From " 
lines in the old mbox:

$ grep '^From ' guppies-out.mbox | wc
    46295  163728 1800087
$ grep '^From: ' guppies-out.mbox | wc
    45289  159710 1803623

So, if I process the old mbox and convert the "From " lines without 
dates into "From " lines without " and <> and add a date/time stamp, and 
THEN run cleanarch, cleanarch should escape only the 1006 non-matching 
"From " lines, and I should end up with an mbox I can combine with 
March, April and May of 2007 from the current list.  Is that a correct 
assessment?

Metta,
Ivan
-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

From kevinc at seaplace.org  Mon May 21 15:43:16 2007
From: kevinc at seaplace.org (kevinc at seaplace.org)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 08:43:16 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Negligent admin needs help
Message-ID: <41719.164.144.240.25.1179754996.squirrel@www.seaplace.org>

Hi all.

The problem with great software is that one becomes use to it just working...

Alas, I've been negligent.  Per some date stamps, apparently about 2 weeks
ago my /usr/local filesystem filled up - causing mailman
(/usr/local/mailman) some grief.  Last night I moved /usr/local/mailman to
/var/mailman, created a symbolic link, and now have 40X more space.  I
rather figured that would do the trick, but alas, I apparently have
another problem.

Now (and I don't think its related to the filesystem move), I'm seeing
this in my smtp-failure log:

May 21 08:29:31 2007 (10620) delivery to cbingman at panix.com failed with
code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
May 21 08:29:31 2007 (10620) delivery to aquatictec at aol.com failed with
code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
May 21 08:29:31 2007 (10620) delivery to ddavies at seaplace.org failed with
code -1: please run connect() first
May 21 08:29:31 2007 (10620) delivery to greg at schiemer.us failed with code
-1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
May 21 08:29:31 2007 (10620) delivery to tmoore at alice.caltech.edu failed
with code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
May 21 08:29:31 2007 (10620) delivery to mar-rk at actwin.com failed with
code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
May 21 08:29:32 2007 (10620) Low level smtp error: (-2, 'Name or service
not known'), msgid:
<mailman.0.1179720029.5923.fishroom at mail2.seaplace.org>
May 21 08:29:32 2007 (10620) delivery to opkpuimk at mt.pl failed with code
-1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
May 21 08:29:32 2007 (10620) Low level smtp error: (-2, 'Name or service
not known'), msgid:
<mailman.1.1179720029.5923.fishroom at mail2.seaplace.org>
May 21 08:29:32 2007 (10620) delivery to fishroom-owner at mail2.seaplace.org
failed with code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
May 21 08:29:32 2007 (10620) Low level smtp error: (-2, 'Name or service
not known'), msgid: <20070521090518.2A2F03193 at mail.seaplace.org>

I played with this for about 3 hours last night without success so now
turn to this list.

This is a Gentoo system, running 2.6.16-hardened, Postfix (and thats
working - we are using it to send this message and gather replies), and
Mailman 2.1.9_rc1.

Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated.

Kevin



From felixproject2010 at yahoo.com  Mon May 21 18:21:13 2007
From: felixproject2010 at yahoo.com (felix trip)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 09:21:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how can i use your site
Message-ID: <597962.63338.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

hello is this python for sending mail or for what please update me
  i need a site to send multiple mail to my customers
  felix.

       
---------------------------------
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. 

From msapiro at value.net  Mon May 21 18:38:15 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 09:38:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Negligent admin needs help
In-Reply-To: <41719.164.144.240.25.1179754996.squirrel@www.seaplace.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602007052109381508593a6c1d2a@msapiro>

kevinc at seaplace.org wrote:
>
>Now (and I don't think its related to the filesystem move), I'm seeing
>this in my smtp-failure log:
>
>May 21 08:29:31 2007 (10620) delivery to cbingman at panix.com failed with
>code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
>May 21 08:29:31 2007 (10620) delivery to aquatictec at aol.com failed with
>code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
<snip>


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.014.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon May 21 19:37:28 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 10:37:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "No subject" messages in archives
In-Reply-To: <46519AAD.7090409@pauahtun.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705211037280890ec0b15f6@msapiro>

Ivan Van Laningham wrote:
>
>Ah.  Now we're getting somewhere.  Here are some sample "From " lines:
>
>1)  From the current list.mbox (leading '> ' not part of actual line):
> > From Lizzelvin at aol.com Sun Mar 18 18:17:56 2007


This is a normal Unix From_


>2)  From the old mbox which I want to incorporate (leading '> ' inserted):
> > From "robyn m. fritz" <rfritz at nwlink.com>
>or
> > From Mochie at webtv.net (C Ryplansky)


These are non-standard separators


>
>And here is the _fromlinepattern:
>
>_fromlinepattern = r"From \s*[^\s]+\s+\w\w\w\s+\w\w\w\s+\d?\d\s+" \
>                    r"\d?\d:\d\d(:\d\d)?(\s+[^\s]+)?\s+\d\d\d\d\s*$"
>
>Now, I don't understand much of this pattern, but it looks to me as if 
>a) there's no provision for matching " or < or > characters; and
>b) some sort of date/time mark is required.


This pattern is used by cleanarch to try to separate a standard Unix
From_ separator from other lines that just happen to begin with "From
". It matches
"From " followed by whitespace-delimited fields containing
any non-whitespace - email address
3 alphanumercs - day of week
3 alphanumerics - month
1 or 2 digits - day of month
1 or 2 digits, colon, 2 digits, optional colon and 2 digits - hh:mm(:ss)
optional any non whitespace - time zone offset
4 digits - year

So yes, it looks for a single email address and a date in a specific
format. The email address can be bracketed - <user at example.com> and
doesn't really have to look like a valid email address, but it can't
contain whitespace, thus it can't have a 'real name' unless it has no
whitespace such as johnsmith<jsmith at example.com>.

This is only used by cleanarch. Pipermail doesn't care about the
contents of the From_ separator. It assumes any line that begins with
"From " is a separator and ignores the rest of the line.
 

>All the "From " lines are terminated with a \n, and all are followed 
>immediately by what look like valid message header lines, so I don't 
>think those are problems.  There do appear to be 1006 unescaped "From " 
>lines in the old mbox:
>
>$ grep '^From ' guppies-out.mbox | wc
>    46295  163728 1800087
>$ grep '^From: ' guppies-out.mbox | wc
>    45289  159710 1803623


This seems to indicate a problem, but still doesn't account for 5000
spurious archive entries.


>So, if I process the old mbox and convert the "From " lines without 
>dates into "From " lines without " and <> and add a date/time stamp, and 
>THEN run cleanarch, cleanarch should escape only the 1006 non-matching 
>"From " lines, and I should end up with an mbox I can combine with 
>March, April and May of 2007 from the current list.  Is that a correct 
>assessment?


That is correct, but if you can process the old mbox and identify which
"From " lines without dates are actually message separators, then you
should be able to identify which ones are not message separators and
just escape those. I.e. create your own archive cleaner specific to
this situation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From catalyst at actionpa.org  Sat May 19 18:29:51 2007
From: catalyst at actionpa.org (Mike Ewall)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 12:29:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subject Lines Wrapped After Commas, (Like This?)
Message-ID: <20070521181021.BC1011E4005@bag.python.org>


I've noticed that on several Mailman lists I'm running, subject lines 
sometimes get chopped after commas or semicolons.  This doesn't 
always happen, though.  It's not just a matter of things being 
chopped after the 78-or-so chars, either.  Sometimes, it's after a single word.

Below are examples from a list I run on ethanol issues.  The first 
batch are examples with commas that came through just fine.  Below it 
are examples where the subject lines got chopped/wrapped 
prematurely.  This always happens at commas or semicolons.

I'm running Mailman version "2.1.9.cp2" (control panel 2?).

Any guidance on how to stop this inappropriate subject line wrapping 
would be much appreciated.

Mike
-----


*** THESE CAME THROUGH FINE ***

Subject: [Ethanol] Ethanol plant question,Palestine Il??

Subject: [Ethanol] Barrie, Ontario vs. proposed ethanol plant

Subject: [Ethanol] Jim Dunn vs."dumbest" PA ethanol plans. U.S. Taxpayers
  pay, Russians profit!

Subject: [Ethanol] Tufts' Grant Reid: ETHANOL, SNAKE OIL FOR THE 21ST CENTURY

Subject: [Ethanol] ABC, MSNBC, etc.: Not "green, " ethanol = more smog,
  cancer, death


*** THIS MAY HAVE BEEN CHOPPED DUE TO LENGTH ***

Subject: [Ethanol] UN warns: Biofuels risk farmers, food, environment,
	climate


*** THESE WERE CHOPPED AFTER COMMAS OR SEMICOLONS PREMATURELY ***

Subject: [Ethanol] Unlike U.S.,
	Canada issues fines for railway ethanol spills

Subject: [Ethanol] Not Iraq,
  is 2008 U.S. election' about who profits most from  ethanol?

Subject: [Ethanol] As in NY,
  Vinod Khosla's CA ethanol plans need "proper environmental review"

Subject: [Ethanol] Genetically Engineered Biofuels: The Next Big,
	Dangerous Hoax

Subject: [Ethanol] Wisconsin residents replace local officials,
	stop ethanol plant

Subject: [Ethanol] Dover,
  Wisconsin ciizens VOTE on "monster" ethanol plant April  3

Subject: [Ethanol] Cambria,
  Wisconsin CITIZENS vote on a Didion ethanol plant  April 3

Subject: [Ethanol] PA officials snub NC's ethanol-backing,
	job-hunting Bill Martin

Subject: [Ethanol] Leaving E85 ethanol "mess" in NC,
	Bill Martin job-hunts in PA

Subject: [Ethanol] PA newspaper wins top award;
  blew whistle on secret ethanol  study

Subject: [Ethanol] NY drops ethanol from energy agenda;
	favors wind, solar power


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon May 21 20:45:20 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 13:45:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how can i use your site
In-Reply-To: <597962.63338.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <597962.63338.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00705211145w14917818v199ce0a8fd761703@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/21/07, felix trip <felixproject2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> hello is this python for sending mail or for what please update me
>   i need a site to send multiple mail to my customers

This mailing list (and the associated websites) are to support people
using a particular software package (Mailman), which is used to
maintain email lists. We do not offer any services; in particular, you
cannot use this list or its associated websites to send mail to an
arbitrary group of people.

Simply put: this is not a site to send multiple mail to your customers.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From msapiro at value.net  Mon May 21 21:03:50 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 12:03:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subject Lines Wrapped After Commas, (Like This?)
In-Reply-To: <20070521181021.BC1011E4005@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602007052112035004686ae14886@msapiro>

Mike Ewall wrote:
>
>I've noticed that on several Mailman lists I'm running, subject lines 
>sometimes get chopped after commas or semicolons.


"Chopped" seems to be the wrong term. Long subjects aren't "chopped";
they are "folded". See sec. 2.2.3 of RFC 2822
<http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2822.html> for an explanation of this
process.


>This doesn't 
>always happen, though.  It's not just a matter of things being 
>chopped after the 78-or-so chars, either.  Sometimes, it's after a single word.
>
>Below are examples from a list I run on ethanol issues.  The first 
>batch are examples with commas that came through just fine.  Below it 
>are examples where the subject lines got chopped/wrapped 
>prematurely.  This always happens at commas or semicolons.



This is because the RFC recommends "folding SHOULD be limited to
placing the CRLF at higher-level syntactic breaks" and the folding
process is preferring to fold following a comma or semicolon if
possible.


>I'm running Mailman version "2.1.9.cp2" (control panel 2?).


This is a cPanel Mailman. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.
I'm not sure if the cPanel behavior is any different from standard
Mailman in this respect. Both will fold long subjects or subjects that
become long as a result of adding the subject_prefix. See below for
more.


>Any guidance on how to stop this inappropriate subject line wrapping 
>would be much appreciated.


It's not inappropriate. It's a standard. The recipient's MUA should be
properly unfolding the folded subject for display.


<snip>
>*** THESE WERE CHOPPED AFTER COMMAS OR SEMICOLONS PREMATURELY ***
>
>Subject: [Ethanol] Unlike U.S.,
>	Canada issues fines for railway ethanol spills


This could have been folded as

Subject: [Ethanol] Unlike U.S., Canada issues fines for railway ethanol
	 spills

or as

Subject: [Ethanol] Unlike U.S., Canada issues fines for railway
	 ethanol spills

I don't know if you'd like either of these better. I also don't know if
folding at the comma in this case is unique to cPanel or not. In any
case, it is done by the underlying Python email library, and all three
of the above folded subjects should unfold to essentially the same
thing (i.e., the MUA should remove the inserted <cr><lf><tab>)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue May 22 01:54:37 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 16:54:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subject Lines Wrapped After Commas, (LikeThis?)
In-Reply-To: <20070521151862.SM03288@psmtp.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705211654370687234ea8b4@msapiro>

Mike Ewall wrote:
>
>Thanks for clarifying the terms for me and for explaining how the 
>subject line behavior works.  Unfortunately, this isn't the first 
>"feature" of Mailman that I see as a bug.  I don't know about other 
>email readers, but in Eudora, only the part of the subject before the 
>fold shows up in the table of contents, making this feature rather annoying.


It is the underlying Python email library that folds the Subject:
header and determines where to fold. You could argue that it shouldn't
give preference to foldable whitespace following a comma or semicolon
in the unencoded value of the subject as these aren't syntactically
significant in a subject, and that may be valid, but it is still
folding in a standards compliant manner.

I would argue that Eudora is much more at fault here for not unfolding
the subject before presenting it in its TOC.

What does Eudora do with RFC 2047 encoded Subject: headers such as the
example in section 8 of the RFC
(http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2047.html>.


>I'd very much prefer to have things folded without regard to commas, 
>as in your examples below.


If Eudora would unfold the header before putting as much as fits into
the subject field of its TOC, this wouldn't be an issue. From my point
of view, you're asking that Mailman, which is already standards
compliant, alter its behavior to compensate for a non-compliant MUA.


>Is there any way to configure Mailman not to fold at higher-level 
>syntactic breaks?


No. I think that this would require modifying the Header module in the
Python email library.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From wally at booyaka.com  Tue May 22 01:59:52 2007
From: wally at booyaka.com (Wallace Winfrey)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 17:59:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] single list has stopped working while others
	continue to work
Message-ID: <46523278.3080805@booyaka.com>

Hello

I am running mailman v.2.1.5 (installed from source) on RHEL ES 3 using
kernel 2.4.21-47. We are using Sendmail 8.12.11. We have been running
this version of mailman successfully for the last two years with few
problems.

However, today I seem to have run into a real head-scratcher. We run a
dozen or so lists, most of which are unmoderated, two-way lists. We also
run a couple moderated, one-way announcement lists, one of which seems
to have stopped working sometime this afternoon. The rest of our lists
continue to function normally, but this particular list doesn't seem to
be working at all.

As I mentioned above, this is a moderated list, so when I post, I expect
to see a moderation message by email, and the moderation request appear
in the web management interface. However, neither of these things seems
to happen.

I can see sendmail handing it off to mailman just fine:

May 21 16:59:54 sly sendmail[4071]: l4LMxs3W004071:
from=<wally at cycling74.com>, size=806, class=0, nrcpts=1,
msgid=<46522468.80709 at cycling74.com>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA,
relay=intranet.cycling74.com [207.174.12.59]

May 21 16:59:54 sly sendmail[4072]: l4LMxs3W004071:
to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post cycling74-announcements",
ctladdr=<cycling74-announcements at sly.cycling74.com> (8/0),
delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=31050, dsn=2.0.0,
stat=Sent

However, that's it. Nothing else happens. There's nothing in the logs,
no errant locks in ~mailman/locks/, nothing that I could glean from
perusing the FAQ entry at:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp

Anyone have any ideas? We have another list that's set up with the exact
same options, just named differently and with a different subscriber
list, but it seems to be working just fine.

cheers

w

From msapiro at value.net  Tue May 22 02:37:16 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 17:37:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] single list has stopped working while
	otherscontinue to work
In-Reply-To: <46523278.3080805@booyaka.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007052117371603904f623896@msapiro>

Wallace Winfrey wrote:
>
>However, today I seem to have run into a real head-scratcher. We run a
>dozen or so lists, most of which are unmoderated, two-way lists. We also
>run a couple moderated, one-way announcement lists, one of which seems
>to have stopped working sometime this afternoon. The rest of our lists
>continue to function normally, but this particular list doesn't seem to
>be working at all.
>
>As I mentioned above, this is a moderated list, so when I post, I expect
>to see a moderation message by email, and the moderation request appear
>in the web management interface. However, neither of these things seems
>to happen.
>
>I can see sendmail handing it off to mailman just fine:
>
>May 21 16:59:54 sly sendmail[4071]: l4LMxs3W004071:
>from=<wally at cycling74.com>, size=806, class=0, nrcpts=1,
>msgid=<46522468.80709 at cycling74.com>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA,
>relay=intranet.cycling74.com [207.174.12.59]
>
>May 21 16:59:54 sly sendmail[4072]: l4LMxs3W004071:
>to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post cycling74-announcements",
>ctladdr=<cycling74-announcements at sly.cycling74.com> (8/0),
>delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=31050, dsn=2.0.0,
>stat=Sent
>
>However, that's it. Nothing else happens. There's nothing in the logs,


Are you looking at the right logs? i.e. are there lots of current
entries in Mailman's post and smtp logs that you're looking at.

If not, you're not looking at the right logs. RedHat normally puts them
in /var/log/mailman/.

If so, are you sure there is nothing in Mailman's error log and nothing
unusual in Mailman's qrunner and vette logs?


>no errant locks in ~mailman/locks/, nothing that I could glean from
>perusing the FAQ entry at:
>
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp
>
>Anyone have any ideas? We have another list that's set up with the exact
>same options, just named differently and with a different subscriber
>list, but it seems to be working just fine.


What's in qfiles/in? If it is not empty, what does

ps -fAw | grep Incoming

show? If it shows a runner with the option --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1,
then it's OK, but if it shows any number other than 1 in the third
colon-delimited field of the --runner option, see the last paragraph
of section 5b of FAQ 4.78.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From wally at booyaka.com  Tue May 22 03:48:28 2007
From: wally at booyaka.com (Wallace Winfrey)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 19:48:28 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] single list has stopped working while
 otherscontinue to work
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007052117371603904f623896@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007052117371603904f623896@msapiro>
Message-ID: <46524BEC.30003@booyaka.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Are you looking at the right logs? i.e. are there lots of current
> entries in Mailman's post and smtp logs that you're looking at.

Yeah, lots of current entries in post and smtp - normal list activity.

> If so, are you sure there is nothing in Mailman's error log and nothing
> unusual in Mailman's qrunner and vette logs?

The only thing I see from today in qrunner is my earlier mailman
restart; vette shows lots of spam 'Post by a non-member to a
members-only list' to our active lists (as usual), and a few legitimate
posts here and there.

I did a 'grep cycling74-announcements /usr/local/mailman/logs/*' and
nothing current came up. Just the test post from earlier today, the last
successful post to be accepted and sent on for moderation. The four
posts that have been sent afterwards to this list do not appear.

> What's in qfiles/in? If it is not empty, what does

It's empty.

> 
> ps -fAw | grep Incoming
> 
> show? If it shows a runner with the option --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1,
> then it's OK, 

That's what it shows.

Like I said, a real head-scratcher. I guess if worse comes to worst, I
could just try deleting the list and rebuilding it, but I'd like to
avoid that if at all possible.

cheers

w

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue May 22 03:58:32 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 20:58:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subject Lines Wrapped After Commas, (LikeThis?)
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705211654370687234ea8b4@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200705211654370687234ea8b4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240801c277fdb26a2c@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/21/07, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  I would argue that Eudora is much more at fault here for not unfolding
>  the subject before presenting it in its TOC.

I use Eudora myself.  I don't see any such problems.

>  If Eudora would unfold the header before putting as much as fits into
>  the subject field of its TOC, this wouldn't be an issue. From my point
>  of view, you're asking that Mailman, which is already standards
>  compliant, alter its behavior to compensate for a non-compliant MUA.

Eudora won't un-fold a subject line that has already been folded, 
regardless of how wide you make your window.  That's a Eudora 
problem, and there's nothing that anyone anywhere else in the 
Universe can do to fix it.

Eudora is going away.  Qualcomm has decided to kill it.  They're 
supposedly working on importing most of the most important features 
into Thunderbird, but that project is apparently a very long way away 
from fruition.  I'm going to have to find a new MUA pretty soon, and 
it most likely won't be Thunderbird, and it certainly won't be 
Thundora.  Pretty much all other Eudora users are in that same boat.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From msapiro at value.net  Tue May 22 04:16:52 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 19:16:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] single list has stopped working
	whileotherscontinue to work
In-Reply-To: <46524BEC.30003@booyaka.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705211916520656b20898a4@msapiro>

Wallace Winfrey wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> If so, are you sure there is nothing in Mailman's error log and nothing
>> unusual in Mailman's qrunner and vette logs?
>
>The only thing I see from today in qrunner is my earlier mailman
>restart; vette shows lots of spam 'Post by a non-member to a
>members-only list' to our active lists (as usual), and a few legitimate
>posts here and there.
>
>I did a 'grep cycling74-announcements /usr/local/mailman/logs/*' and
>nothing current came up.


You haven't mentioned Mailman's 'error' log. Is there one (it's
possible there isn't if there's never been an error)? If so, is there
anything in it? Most error log entries won't include the list name so
your grep wouldn't find them.


>Just the test post from earlier today, the last
>successful post to be accepted and sent on for moderation. The four
>posts that have been sent afterwards to this list do not appear.
>
>> What's in qfiles/in? If it is not empty, what does
>
>It's empty.
>
>> 
>> ps -fAw | grep Incoming
>> 
>> show? If it shows a runner with the option --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1,
>> then it's OK, 
>
>That's what it shows.
>
>Like I said, a real head-scratcher. I guess if worse comes to worst, I
>could just try deleting the list and rebuilding it, but I'd like to
>avoid that if at all possible.


That shouldn't be necessary. But, if the message gets to qfiles/in, it
shouldn't disappear without some log message. What happens if you post
a message to the list with Mailman's bin/inject?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue May 22 05:04:48 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 12:04:48 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subject Lines Wrapped After Commas, (Like This?)
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007052112035004686ae14886@msapiro>
References: <20070521181021.BC1011E4005@bag.python.org>
	<PC17602007052112035004686ae14886@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87hcq57e3z.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > case, it is done by the underlying Python email library, and all three
 > of the above folded subjects should unfold to essentially the same
 > thing (i.e., the MUA should remove the inserted <cr><lf><tab>)

AFAIK the standard implies but does not say that a single CRLF is to
be inserted before "folding white space", and that the proper way to
unfold is to simply remove the CRLF.  It's not obvious to me that
using a TAB here is a good idea; I would prefer a single space.

Again AFAIK, only in the case of abutting MIME encoded words does the
standard explicitly say what to do with whitespace other than the
CRLF.  In that case, all intervening whitespace is to be removed (ie,
any whitespace that should remain must be encoded in the encoded
words).  That's obviously not appropriate for receiving MUAs for
non-RFC 2047 cases.

Unfortunately, there is no agreement whatsoever among MUAs on how to
deal with the ambiguity in "the standard as MUA-writers understand it".

The bottom line is that I have a lot of sympathy with the OP; Eudora
is not at all out of line with the degree of variation in the sample
of MUAs I'm familiar with (many do not remove the CRLF, I suppose on
the grounds that the sending MUA or user often intends a "sequence of
lines" semantics).  However, I don't see what Mailman can do except to
pick a particular interpretation of the treatment of folding, and
stick to it.  The one used by Python's email library is certainly
reasonable.

 > This is because the RFC recommends "folding SHOULD be limited to
 > placing the CRLF at higher-level syntactic breaks" and the folding
 > process is preferring to fold following a comma or semicolon if
 > possible.

There's no support in the RFC for this.  The "syntactic breaks"
referred to are the RFC syntax, and the Subject field has none, not
even comments.  See RFC 2822 sections 2.2.1 and 3.6.5.

I would argue that Mailman's algorithm is bogus, as it violates POLA.
At the very least the subject header should be presumed to be prose to
be broken into approximately equal lines.

From wally at booyaka.com  Tue May 22 06:05:15 2007
From: wally at booyaka.com (Wallace Winfrey)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 22:05:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] single list has stopped working
 whileotherscontinue to work
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705211916520656b20898a4@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200705211916520656b20898a4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <46526BFB.7080200@booyaka.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> You haven't mentioned Mailman's 'error' log. Is there one (it's
> possible there isn't if there's never been an error)? If so, is there
> anything in it? Most error log entries won't include the list name so
> your grep wouldn't find them.

There's an error log, but there's nothing relevant in there (i.e.
nothing timestamped around the same time the messages were sent).

> That shouldn't be necessary. But, if the message gets to qfiles/in, it
> shouldn't disappear without some log message. What happens if you post
> a message to the list with Mailman's bin/inject?

It's definitely getting into qfiles/in -- I did a "watch --interval=0 -d
'ls -l qfiles/in/'" and then sent an email to
cycling74-announcements at cycling74.com, and a message briefly appeared in
there, and then disappeared (as expected). However, I don't see it any
mention of the mail in the logs once it goes in, well, I didn't think I
was anyway.

Tt appears I was wrong about there being nothing out of the ordinary in
the logs. I see the following (for example) in logs/vette whenever I
post to the list:

May 21 21:49:37 2007 (22417) Message discarded, msgid:
<4652684E.5060601 at cycling74.com>

If I look in the maillog, these are definitely the same message ids of
the messages I've been sending through and seeing, well, discarded.

This happens when using bin/inject -l cycling74-announcements to put a
message into the queue manually, as well -- it gets discarded.

My apologies for not mentioning this earlier. I assumed that all entries
in logs/vette would be preceded with the listname.

It's worth mentioning that we don't have any content filters set up for
the list.

I guess my question now is, why are messages sent to this list being
discarded? And all of a sudden? I suppose it's possible one of our
moderators may have inadvertently set a list option, but my perusal of
the configuration didn't reveal anything obvious.

cheers

w




From msapiro at value.net  Tue May 22 06:36:00 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 21:36:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] single list has stopped
	workingwhileotherscontinue to work
In-Reply-To: <46526BFB.7080200@booyaka.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705212136000125b09eaedd@msapiro>

Wallace Winfrey wrote:
>
>Tt appears I was wrong about there being nothing out of the ordinary in
>the logs. I see the following (for example) in logs/vette whenever I
>post to the list:
>
>May 21 21:49:37 2007 (22417) Message discarded, msgid:
><4652684E.5060601 at cycling74.com>
>
>If I look in the maillog, these are definitely the same message ids of
>the messages I've been sending through and seeing, well, discarded.
>
>This happens when using bin/inject -l cycling74-announcements to put a
>message into the queue manually, as well -- it gets discarded.
>
>My apologies for not mentioning this earlier. I assumed that all entries
>in logs/vette would be preceded with the listname.


OK.

Here are the places in Mailman 2.1.5 where a message can be discarded.

SpamDetect:
   Any match of a (header,regexp) tuple coded in KNOWN_SPAMMERS in
mm_cfg.py.
   Any match on the list's Privacy options...->Spam
filters->header_filter_rules with a discard action.

Moderate:
   Any post from a moderated member if member_moderation_action is
discard.
   Any post from a non-member if generic_nonmember_action is discard or
the poster is in discard_these_nonmembers

The above discards by Moderate will be bypassed (not done) if the
message contains an Approved: header with a valid list admin or
moderator password.

MimeDel:
   A message will be discarded if there is nothing left after content
filtering.

Scrubber can also discard an HTML message if
mm_cfg.ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER = 0, but in Mailman 2.1.5, Scrubber is
only invoked by archiving, so this wouldn't be the reason in your case.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From wally at booyaka.com  Tue May 22 07:28:54 2007
From: wally at booyaka.com (Wallace Winfrey)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 23:28:54 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] single list has stopped
 workingwhileotherscontinue to work
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705212136000125b09eaedd@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200705212136000125b09eaedd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <46527F96.9070000@booyaka.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Here are the places in Mailman 2.1.5 where a message can be discarded.
>
>    Any post from a non-member if generic_nonmember_action is discard or
> the poster is in discard_these_nonmembers

Ahh, here we go -- it looks like our moderator inadvertently set this to
 Discard (it had previously been set to Hold).

I apologize for the excessive noise required to come to this solution. I
very much appreciate your help in tracking this down. I feel like I've
got a much better handle on the process mailman goes through to post a
message, though.

In the future, if we see our messages "disappearing into the ether" so
to speak, the first thing I'll do is check all the discard settings.

Thanks again,

w


From tron478 at googlemail.com  Tue May 22 11:36:17 2007
From: tron478 at googlemail.com (TRON478)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 11:36:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one mailman installation and lists for two domains
Message-ID: <865f632b0705220236qee2276aw311d6479e16b5b80@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

i have set up a linux machine with mailman successfully. it works fine. now
i need a second mailinglist but based on another domain. That means i have
the first domain = lists.myfirstdomain.com -> this works, now i need to set
up a second domain -> lists.myseconddomain.com with mailinglists. Is that
possible? And if yes, how to make it?

thanks
yavuz

From barry at python.org  Tue May 22 13:57:37 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 07:57:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subject Lines Wrapped After Commas, (Like This?)
In-Reply-To: <87hcq57e3z.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <20070521181021.BC1011E4005@bag.python.org>
	<PC17602007052112035004686ae14886@msapiro>
	<87hcq57e3z.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <2BD8D1A2-2980-4EE9-A96B-35F2C1C3FE9D@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On May 21, 2007, at 11:04 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> I would argue that Mailman's algorithm is bogus, as it violates POLA.
> At the very least the subject header should be presumed to be prose to
> be broken into approximately equal lines.

I agree that the current state isn't correct, but the right place to  
fix this is in the email package, so the discussion really should be  
moved to Python's email-sig.

- -Barry

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From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue May 22 15:29:13 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 22:29:13 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subject Lines Wrapped After Commas, (Like This?)
In-Reply-To: <2BD8D1A2-2980-4EE9-A96B-35F2C1C3FE9D@python.org>
References: <20070521181021.BC1011E4005@bag.python.org>
	<PC17602007052112035004686ae14886@msapiro>
	<87hcq57e3z.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<2BD8D1A2-2980-4EE9-A96B-35F2C1C3FE9D@python.org>
Message-ID: <871wh96l7a.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Barry Warsaw writes:

 > I agree that the current state isn't correct, but the right place to  
 > fix this is in the email package, so the discussion really should be  
 > moved to Python's email-sig.

I thought about that ... but I certainly hope that people who have
opinions about this will join, because this is not a standards issue
at root.  It's about palliative care for those with sick MUAs.<wink>
So what are the symptoms we need to palliate?




From mmlist at ns2.elektro.com  Tue May 22 17:10:48 2007
From: mmlist at ns2.elektro.com (Mailman Users)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 11:10:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change subscriber address
Message-ID: <200705221510.l4MFAmSf015947@ns2.elektro.com>


I'm running Mailman 2.1.9 with RHEL.
    Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS release 3 (Taroon Update 1)

The question is how can a user change their subscription address?

The web page http://system.name/mailman/options/listname
shows a place to enter a new address.  This does not actually
change the user's subscription address.

What do I have wrong here?

Thanks.

Charlie Smith
charlie at elektro.cmhnet.org



From msapiro at value.net  Tue May 22 19:15:01 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 10:15:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change subscriber address
In-Reply-To: <200705221510.l4MFAmSf015947@ns2.elektro.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705221015010796eaf9717d@msapiro>

Mailman Users wrote:
>
>The web page http://system.name/mailman/options/listname
>shows a place to enter a new address.  This does not actually
>change the user's subscription address.
>
>What do I have wrong here?


Submitting an address change causes a confirmation request to be sent
to the new address. This confirmation request must be received and
acted upon before the change is effective.

If confirmation from the new address were not required it would be
possible for anyone to subscribe a 3rd party to a list without the 3rd
party's knowledge or consent by first subscribing her own address and
then changing it to that of the 3rd party.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From sberry at northlc.com  Tue May 22 18:47:38 2007
From: sberry at northlc.com (Scott Berry)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 11:47:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a problem loading mailman through my browser
Message-ID: <01aa01c79c9d$6fbb8fb0$6601a8c0@yellobow>

Hello there,

I am having a problem where mailman is not resolving to the address I assigned it through dyndns.  Here is the error  I get with a copy of my mailman.conf file.

Problem loading page

Unable to connect
Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at mailmanpilotalk.dyndns.biz.
list of 3 items
. The site could be temporarily unavailable or too busy. Try again in a few     moments.
. If you are unable to load any pages, check your computer's network     connection.
. If your computer or network is protected by a firewall or proxy, make sure     that Firefox is permitted to access the Web.
list end


From brian at emwd.com  Tue May 22 20:31:53 2007
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 14:31:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a problem loading mailman through my browser
In-Reply-To: <01aa01c79c9d$6fbb8fb0$6601a8c0@yellobow>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlur96LlPZE2sdEueOPjcjsKAAAAQAAAALMosMh4wy062sQMeO/G4+AEAAAAA@emwd.com>

This is not a mailman issue. The A record for mailmanpilotalk.dyndns.biz
points to 67.54.156.245. However this server is down and not responding to
pings or http requests.

Kind regards,
Brian Carpenter
--------------------------------------
EMWD -  Executive Officer



-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Scott
Berry
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 12:48 PM
To: Mailman
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a problem loading mailman through my browser


Hello there,

I am having a problem where mailman is not resolving to the address I
assigned it through dyndns.  Here is the error  I get with a copy of my
mailman.conf file.

Problem loading page

Unable to connect
Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at
mailmanpilotalk.dyndns.biz. list of 3 items
. The site could be temporarily unavailable or too busy. Try again in a few
moments.
. If you are unable to load any pages, check your computer's network
connection.
. If your computer or network is protected by a firewall or proxy, make sure
that Firefox is permitted to access the Web.
list end



From dbosso+lists.mailman at lsit.ucsb.edu  Tue May 22 20:25:33 2007
From: dbosso+lists.mailman at lsit.ucsb.edu (David R Bosso)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 11:25:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] multiple header_filter_rules?
Message-ID: <981AF55D12F1FD2B40DD3488@bossland.lsit.ucsb.edu>

Howdy, I'm seeing the following oddity with header_filter_rules.

I have 2 rules set up.  For a given test message, Rule 1 does not match, 
and Rule 2 does.  If I have Rule 1 set to discard, and Rule 2 set to Hold, 
the message is discarded.  If I make the single change of setting Rule 2 to 
Defer, then the message is accepted.

Any idea why the Action for Rule 1 is being used when Rule 2 is hit?  Can 
anyone else reproduce this?  Am I misunderstanding something about Rule 
processing order?

Using Mailman 2.1.9

Thanks.

-David

From mmlist at ns2.elektro.com  Tue May 22 21:02:36 2007
From: mmlist at ns2.elektro.com (Mailman Users)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 15:02:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change subscriber address
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705221015010796eaf9717d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200705221902.l4MJ2b43013664@ns2.elektro.com>

Earlier, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> Mailman Users wrote:
> >
> >The web page http://system.name/mailman/options/listname
> >shows a place to enter a new address.  This does not actually
> >change the user's subscription address.
> >
> >What do I have wrong here?
> 
> 
> Submitting an address change causes a confirmation request to be sent
> to the new address. This confirmation request must be received and
> acted upon before the change is effective.

I'm not getting a confirmation request to the new email address,
and am not seeing a moderator action request either.  

I've seen this behaviour on another Mailman list, ver 2.1.6 - so I assume
there must be something I've missed on the configuration?

    - Charlie


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue May 22 22:55:45 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 15:55:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subject Lines Wrapped After Commas, (Like This?)
In-Reply-To: <871wh96l7a.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <20070521181021.BC1011E4005@bag.python.org>
	<PC17602007052112035004686ae14886@msapiro>
	<87hcq57e3z.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<2BD8D1A2-2980-4EE9-A96B-35F2C1C3FE9D@python.org>
	<871wh96l7a.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240801c27908d20610@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/22/07, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>  I thought about that ... but I certainly hope that people who have
>  opinions about this will join, because this is not a standards issue
>  at root.  It's about palliative care for those with sick MUAs.<wink>
>  So what are the symptoms we need to palliate?

The problem is that the people who can fix this problem are over on 
the list that Barry identified.  Any discussion anywhere else is not 
likely to go anywhere, at least not as far as Python & Mailman are 
concerned.

So, get your experts to go have the appropriate discussion over 
there, or at least talk about the summary of the discussion.

That's your only real hope of getting anything done.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From msapiro at value.net  Tue May 22 23:45:29 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 14:45:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change subscriber address
In-Reply-To: <200705221902.l4MJ2b43013664@ns2.elektro.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705221445290109e4f4db6a@Notebook>

Mailman Users wrote:

>Earlier, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>> Submitting an address change causes a confirmation request to be sent
>> to the new address. This confirmation request must be received and
>> acted upon before the change is effective.
>
>I'm not getting a confirmation request to the new email address,
>and am not seeing a moderator action request either.  


There won't be a moderator action request for an address change.

If you have access to Mailman's logs, you can check the 'smtp' log to
see if a confirmation message is sent. There should be an entry
similar to

May 22 13:13:26 2007 (23704)
<mailman.56708.1179864805.1568.list at example.com> smtp for 1 recips,
completed in 0.040 seconds

(i.e. a 'mailman' message id with the list address and 1 message
recipient) for the confirmation notice.

If you have access to Mailman's command line tools, you can do

bin/dumpdb lists/<listname>/pending.pck

to see if there is an address change (type 'C') waiting confirmation.
For a nicer looking display of the pending.pck data, you can get
<http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/list_pending> (mirrored at
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/list_pending>) and put it in
Mailman's bin/ directory and run it.


>I've seen this behaviour on another Mailman list, ver 2.1.6 - so I assume
>there must be something I've missed on the configuration?


It's not controlled by configuration. Perhaps the confirmation request
is being spam filtered or just not recognized. If you set

VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes

in mm_cfg.py, the confirmation will have a nice subject, but otherwise
the subject is similar to

Subject: confirm e31b055e6099e5a2e6d1070d93029d18f9ba5167

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adamsca at gmail.com  Wed May 23 01:17:56 2007
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 16:17:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman aliases
Message-ID: <27572d930705221617t3eb3437co62fe36efa29d9274@mail.gmail.com>

Just for clarification, what is the use for the mailman list that is
listed in the aliases file? Is this a required list and if so, what is
it's purpose.

If that is not required, what are the necessary entries in the aliases
file to take care of mailman-bounces, mailman-owner, etc? Would that
just be aliases to individual email addresses to take care of messages
pointed to those mailman addresses.

I have been runnning mailman for a number of years and it recently was
pointed out that the mailman at mydomain.com didn't go anywhere. So,  I
added an alias to it and to mailman-owner and mailman-bounces to my
email address in the aliases file.

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here, but these have to point
somewhere. I have read through the Mailman installation docs and FAQ,
but can't find a definitive answer. Pointing me to some documentation
would be sufficient. Thanks

-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From msapiro at value.net  Wed May 23 01:53:05 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 16:53:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] multiple header_filter_rules?
In-Reply-To: <981AF55D12F1FD2B40DD3488@bossland.lsit.ucsb.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705221653050843cefc2290@msapiro>

David R Bosso wrote:
>
>I have 2 rules set up.  For a given test message, Rule 1 does not match, 
>and Rule 2 does.  If I have Rule 1 set to discard, and Rule 2 set to Hold, 
>the message is discarded.  If I make the single change of setting Rule 2 to 
>Defer, then the message is accepted.


And did you by any chance try setting rule 2's action back to Hold and
testing again? The reason I ask, is that when you "Add new item" via
the web GUI, a rule gets created with a flag indicating it is 'empty'
and this flag isn't tested in processing. It shouldn't matter because
either this empty slot will be filled in or it's action remains
'defer', but I may be missing something.


>Any idea why the Action for Rule 1 is being used when Rule 2 is hit? 


No.


>Can 
>anyone else reproduce this?  Am I misunderstanding something about Rule 
>processing order?


I think your understanding is correct. I haven't tried to duplicate it.


>Using Mailman 2.1.9


>From source or a package? If a package, which?


Can you provide the contents of header_filter_rules, ideally from the
output of

bin/dumpdb lists/<listname>/config.pck

or

bin/config_list -o filename listname

but barring that, a copy/paste from the web interface, and a copy of
the test message that illustrates the problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed May 23 02:19:30 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:19:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman aliases
In-Reply-To: <27572d930705221617t3eb3437co62fe36efa29d9274@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007052217193000465bf7f32c@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:

>Just for clarification, what is the use for the mailman list that is
>listed in the aliases file? Is this a required list and if so, what is
>it's purpose.


It is a required list in Mailman 2.1. bin/mailmanctl will not start
Mailman if it isn't present. It is used as the apparent source of
monthly password reminders and certain other notifications, the former
because reminders are for all subscribed lists in a domain, not for
individual lists, and the latter to avoid bounce loops on list-owner
notices.

It will go away in Mailman 2.2.


>If that is not required, what are the necessary entries in the aliases
>file to take care of mailman-bounces, mailman-owner, etc? Would that
>just be aliases to individual email addresses to take care of messages
>pointed to those mailman addresses.
>
>I have been runnning mailman for a number of years and it recently was
>pointed out that the mailman at mydomain.com didn't go anywhere. So,  I
>added an alias to it and to mailman-owner and mailman-bounces to my
>email address in the aliases file.
>
>Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here, but these have to point
>somewhere. I have read through the Mailman installation docs and FAQ,
>but can't find a definitive answer. Pointing me to some documentation
>would be sufficient. Thanks


The issue is somewhat tricky as the mailman list and its aliases are
usually created in the DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST domain, but the listinfo and
admin overview pages expose a mailman@ address in their own domain, so
these addresses ought to be deliverable too. Likewise the
mailman-bounces address. Aliases will point to e.g.
"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman",
"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman", etc. which is the
one and only 'mailman' list in the installation.

I hope this helps.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed May 23 02:35:38 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:35:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one mailman installation and lists for two
	domains
In-Reply-To: <865f632b0705220236qee2276aw311d6479e16b5b80@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070522173538071846077054@msapiro>

TRON478 wrote:
>
>i have set up a linux machine with mailman successfully. it works fine. now
>i need a second mailinglist but based on another domain. That means i have
>the first domain = lists.myfirstdomain.com -> this works, now i need to set
>up a second domain -> lists.myseconddomain.com with mailinglists. Is that
>possible? And if yes, how to make it?


Assuming you are willing to live with the restriction that all list
names must be installation unique, the Mailman side of this is simple.
Just put

add_virtualhost('www.myseconddomain.com', 'lists.myseconddomain.com')

or whatever the actual web and email domains are in mm_cfg.py following

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

if you have that in mm_cfg.py; otherwise anywhere following

##################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.

The rest of the job is setting up your MTA and web server for the
additional domain(s).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adamsca at gmail.com  Wed May 23 05:36:57 2007
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 20:36:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman aliases
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007052217193000465bf7f32c@msapiro>
References: <27572d930705221617t3eb3437co62fe36efa29d9274@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602007052217193000465bf7f32c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <27572d930705222036j3b36b8a6l3206f7fdde0e1c70@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks,Mark. That helps explaining the purpose of the mailman list.

All our lists use the form listname at wherever.com (wherever.com is the
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST set in mm_cfg.py).

In my Postfix aliases file, I have all the list aliases including
aliases for the mailman list:

## mailman mailing list
mailman-admin:        "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:      "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:      "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:         "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:        "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-request:      "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:    "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe:  "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"

So, in the general list info page, there is a line that says:

If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact mailman at wherever.com

Since that address is a post to the mailman mailing list, how does it
actually get delivered anywhere? I don't quite understand what you
mean about the general listinfo and admin pages exposing the mailman@
address in their own domain. I am unclear as to what that domain
should be.

On 5/22/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Christopher Adams wrote:
>
> >Just for clarification, what is the use for the mailman list that is
> >listed in the aliases file? Is this a required list and if so, what is
> >it's purpose.
>
>
> It is a required list in Mailman 2.1. bin/mailmanctl will not start
> Mailman if it isn't present. It is used as the apparent source of
> monthly password reminders and certain other notifications, the former
> because reminders are for all subscribed lists in a domain, not for
> individual lists, and the latter to avoid bounce loops on list-owner
> notices.
>
> It will go away in Mailman 2.2.
>
>
> >If that is not required, what are the necessary entries in the aliases
> >file to take care of mailman-bounces, mailman-owner, etc? Would that
> >just be aliases to individual email addresses to take care of messages
> >pointed to those mailman addresses.
> >
> >I have been runnning mailman for a number of years and it recently was
> >pointed out that the mailman at mydomain.com didn't go anywhere. So,  I
> >added an alias to it and to mailman-owner and mailman-bounces to my
> >email address in the aliases file.
> >
> >Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here, but these have to point
> >somewhere. I have read through the Mailman installation docs and FAQ,
> >but can't find a definitive answer. Pointing me to some documentation
> >would be sufficient. Thanks
>
>
> The issue is somewhat tricky as the mailman list and its aliases are
> usually created in the DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST domain, but the listinfo and
> admin overview pages expose a mailman@ address in their own domain, so
> these addresses ought to be deliverable too. Likewise the
> mailman-bounces address. Aliases will point to e.g.
> "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman",
> "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman", etc. which is the
> one and only 'mailman' list in the installation.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From msapiro at value.net  Wed May 23 06:08:10 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 21:08:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman aliases
In-Reply-To: <27572d930705222036j3b36b8a6l3206f7fdde0e1c70@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007052221081003128430a4a2@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:

>Thanks,Mark. That helps explaining the purpose of the mailman list.
>
>All our lists use the form listname at wherever.com (wherever.com is the
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST set in mm_cfg.py).
>
>In my Postfix aliases file, I have all the list aliases including
>aliases for the mailman list:
>
>## mailman mailing list
>mailman-admin:        "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
>mailman-bounces:      "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
>mailman-confirm:      "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
>mailman-join:         "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
>mailman-leave:        "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
>mailman-request:      "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
>mailman-subscribe:    "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
>mailman-unsubscribe:  "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
>
>So, in the general list info page, there is a line that says:
>
>If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact mailman at wherever.com
>
>Since that address is a post to the mailman mailing list, how does it
>actually get delivered anywhere?


The same as any other list. You subscribe the Mailman site admin(s) to
it and you set generic_nonmember_action to accept.


>I don't quite understand what you
>mean about the general listinfo and admin pages exposing the mailman@
>address in their own domain. I am unclear as to what that domain
>should be.


That doesn't apply in your case. I misunderstood your situation and
thought you had multiple virtual domains.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed May 23 08:05:36 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 15:05:36 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subject Lines Wrapped After Commas, (Like This?)
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c27908d20610@[192.168.1.66]>
References: <20070521181021.BC1011E4005@bag.python.org>
	<PC17602007052112035004686ae14886@msapiro>
	<87hcq57e3z.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<2BD8D1A2-2980-4EE9-A96B-35F2C1C3FE9D@python.org>
	<871wh96l7a.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240801c27908d20610@[192.168.1.66]>
Message-ID: <87ps4s5b2n.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > The problem is that the people who can fix this problem are over on 
 > the list that Barry identified.  Any discussion anywhere else is not 
 > likely to go anywhere, at least not as far as Python & Mailman are 
 > concerned.
 > 
 > So, get your experts to go have the appropriate discussion over 
 > there, or at least talk about the summary of the discussion.

This is not a problem that can be *defined* by experts, who are
generally going to be using conformant, well-behaved software.
Sometimes there will be issues, but they're less likely and Mailman
Users are probably among the most likely to encounter large
collections of users who all use software with the same issue.

Solutions should be proposed and discussed on email-sig, that's the
appropriate place for that.

To all: Please, if you have an issue with Mailman's folding of
headers, bring it up on the email-sig and/or the Python tracker.  I
don't know that something will be done soon, but those are the right
places to collect reports.  For tracker submissions, I suggest the
phrase "email header folding" should be in the summary to make search
easy (you won't find any yet, though).

You can see what's been happening with the email module recently here:

http://sourceforge.net/search/index.php?words=email&sort=artifact_id&sortdir=desc&offset=0&group_id=5470&type_of_search=artifact&pmode=0

To submit a bug report, I think you need to register with Sourceforge.
It's not hard, and AFAICT (I've been registered since the prerelease
trial) it's never been a source of spam or anything like that.

From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Wed May 23 19:26:38 2007
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 10:26:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subject Lines Wrapped After Commas, (LikeThis?)
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705211654370687234ea8b4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C279C75E.1333E%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 5/21/07 4:54 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> I would argue that Eudora is much more at fault here

Eudora was also the primary source of resistance to the List-* headers, with
its interesting habit of displaying all headers except those in its list of
"boring" headers.  Manipulating that list, in the time frame in which the
List-* headers appeared, was not easy for the users on any platform (less
hard on Mac than on Windows).

On the screen size I had at the time they appeared, the List-* headers
caused me to have to scroll to see the useful part of any mailing list
message longer than a couple of lines.

(My usage of Eudora is down to sending test messages and sending some
template-based messages.  And searching messages older than a half decade or
so.)

  --John



From dbosso+lists.mailman at lsit.ucsb.edu  Wed May 23 19:58:28 2007
From: dbosso+lists.mailman at lsit.ucsb.edu (David R Bosso)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 10:58:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] multiple header_filter_rules?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705221653050843cefc2290@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200705221653050843cefc2290@msapiro>
Message-ID: <71EDD17333FA81976377B366@bossland.lsit.ucsb.edu>

--On May 22, 2007 4:53:05 PM -0700 Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> David R Bosso wrote:
>>
>> I have 2 rules set up.  For a given test message, Rule 1 does not match,
>> and Rule 2 does.  If I have Rule 1 set to discard, and Rule 2 set to
>> Hold,  the message is discarded.  If I make the single change of setting
>> Rule 2 to  Defer, then the message is accepted.
>
>
> And did you by any chance try setting rule 2's action back to Hold and
> testing again? The reason I ask, is that when you "Add new item" via
> the web GUI, a rule gets created with a flag indicating it is 'empty'
> and this flag isn't tested in processing. It shouldn't matter because
> either this empty slot will be filled in or it's action remains
> 'defer', but I may be missing something.

Thanks for offering to help.  Yes, I can go back and forth with consistent 
results.

[snip]

>> Using Mailman 2.1.9
>
>
> From source or a package? If a package, which?

Gentoo's ebuild from portage.

>
> Can you provide the contents of header_filter_rules, ideally from the
> output of
>
> bin/dumpdb lists/<listname>/config.pck

'header_filter_rules': [   (   '^Return-Path: 
(?!(<dbosso at lsit\\.ucsb\\.edu>))',
                                   3,
                                   False),
                               ('^Subject: test', 7, False)],


> or
>
> bin/config_list -o filename listname
>
> but barring that, a copy/paste from the web interface

^Return-Path: (?!(<dbosso at lsit\.ucsb\.edu>))

^Subject: test

> and a copy of
> the test message that illustrates the problem.

A mail from me (rule 1 does not match), with the subject "test".

Thanks.

-David


>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>



From adamsca at gmail.com  Wed May 23 20:39:48 2007
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 11:39:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman aliases
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007052221081003128430a4a2@msapiro>
References: <27572d930705222036j3b36b8a6l3206f7fdde0e1c70@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602007052221081003128430a4a2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <27572d930705231139r390d52d0ufce01b3fa20bbe9c@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Mark. That seemed too obvious. Doesn't setting
generic_nonmember_action to accept result in a lot of spam to the
Mailman site admin? How are others dealing with this?

On 5/22/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Christopher Adams wrote:
>
> >Thanks,Mark. That helps explaining the purpose of the mailman list.
> >
> >All our lists use the form listname at wherever.com (wherever.com is the
> >DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST set in mm_cfg.py).
> >
> >In my Postfix aliases file, I have all the list aliases including
> >aliases for the mailman list:
> >
> >## mailman mailing list
> >mailman-admin:        "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
> >mailman-bounces:      "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
> >mailman-confirm:      "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
> >mailman-join:         "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
> >mailman-leave:        "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
> >mailman-request:      "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
> >mailman-subscribe:    "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
> >mailman-unsubscribe:  "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
> >
> >So, in the general list info page, there is a line that says:
> >
> >If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact mailman at wherever.com
> >
> >Since that address is a post to the mailman mailing list, how does it
> >actually get delivered anywhere?
>
>
> The same as any other list. You subscribe the Mailman site admin(s) to
> it and you set generic_nonmember_action to accept.
>
>
> >I don't quite understand what you
> >mean about the general listinfo and admin pages exposing the mailman@
> >address in their own domain. I am unclear as to what that domain
> >should be.
>
>
> That doesn't apply in your case. I misunderstood your situation and
> thought you had multiple virtual domains.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Wed May 23 21:16:56 2007
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 21:16:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman aliases
In-Reply-To: <27572d930705231139r390d52d0ufce01b3fa20bbe9c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <27572d930705222036j3b36b8a6l3206f7fdde0e1c70@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602007052221081003128430a4a2@msapiro>
	<27572d930705231139r390d52d0ufce01b3fa20bbe9c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <567E6E02C073BA15E28B1970@hgd.dyndns.org>

-- Christopher Adams <adamsca at gmail.com> is rumored to have mumbled on 23. 
Mai 2007 11:39:48 -0700 regarding Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman aliases:

> Thanks, Mark. That seemed too obvious. Doesn't setting
> generic_nonmember_action to accept result in a lot of spam to the
> Mailman site admin? How are others dealing with this?

We delete it.
--
Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Flachbau), Zi. 18, Robert-Koch-Str. 10
Zentrum f?r angewandte Informatik - Universit?tsweiter Service RRZK
Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - Tel. +49-221-478-5587
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From msapiro at value.net  Thu May 24 02:59:44 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 17:59:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] multiple header_filter_rules?
In-Reply-To: <71EDD17333FA81976377B366@bossland.lsit.ucsb.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705231759440328bc61f734@msapiro>

David R Bosso wrote:
>
>Thanks for offering to help.  Yes, I can go back and forth with consistent 
>results.


Thanks for providing the info I asked for. I will definitely look into
this unless someone else solves it in the mean time, but I will not be
able to spend any time on it before next week.

Be assured that I won't forget.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu May 24 03:34:45 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 18:34:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman aliases
In-Reply-To: <27572d930705231139r390d52d0ufce01b3fa20bbe9c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705231834450937fd632c96@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:

>Thanks, Mark. That seemed too obvious. Doesn't setting
>generic_nonmember_action to accept result in a lot of spam to the
>Mailman site admin? How are others dealing with this?


First, let me say that if your listinfo overview page says "If you are
having trouble using the lists, please contact mailman at example.com",
you should actually look at that mail.

Unfortunately, changing the overview pages to not say that requires
patching Mailman code so it isn't always feasable to remove the
message. This will change in some future release, but that doesn't
help the immediate situation.

You can do other things with the list settings, but setting the list to
reject or discard non-member posts is not right IMO. Setting the list
to hold non-member posts is OK, but then the list admin or moderator
has to deal with them anyway, so why not just accept them, at least if
the person who receives them from the list is the same person who has
to deal with them if they're held.

You can also set some header_filter_rules to try to discard some spam
if you can identify it that way.

The first step though is to have some kind of spam filtering and/or
greylisting on incoming mail so as little spam as possible even gets
to Mailman in the first place. That's what I do for my lists and the
list admins have to deal with the rest. And yes, I still spend an
inordinate amount of time checking spam at least cursorily for
legitimate messages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From douglas at intermind.net  Thu May 24 03:31:25 2007
From: douglas at intermind.net (Douglas Phillipson)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 18:31:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuration script bails
Message-ID: <4654EAED.9090309@intermind.net>

Installed on Debian Testing, mailman updates fail, causing other 
packages to fail to install with the following output, any help would be 
greatly appreciated...

Doug P

apt-get install mailman
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
mailman is already the newest version.
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 109 not upgraded.
1 not fully installed or removed.
Need to get 0B of archives.
After unpacking 0B of additional disk space will be used.
Setting up mailman (2.1.9-7) ...
Looking for enabled languages (this may take some time) ... done.
Installing site language en ............................................ 
done.
No updates are necessary.
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 297, in ?
     main()
   File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 272, in main
     r = [do_list(listname, args, func) for listname in Utils.list_names()]
   File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 201, in do_list
     return func(m, *args)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/unicodify_archives.py", line 59, in 
unicodify_archives
     h.database.mapKeys(unicodify_fst, archive, hdr)
   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 341, 
in mapKeys
     self.__openIndices(archive)
   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 251, 
in __openIndices
     t = DumbBTree(os.path.join(arcdir, archive + '-' + i))
   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 65, 
in __init__
     self.load()
   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 170, 
in load
     self.dict = marshal.load(fp)
ValueError: bad marshal data
dpkg: error processing mailman (--configure):
  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1
Errors were encountered while processing:
  mailman

From msapiro at value.net  Thu May 24 03:59:05 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 18:59:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuration script bails
In-Reply-To: <4654EAED.9090309@intermind.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705231859050921bc61f95e@msapiro>

Douglas Phillipson wrote:

>Installed on Debian Testing, mailman updates fail, causing other 
>packages to fail to install with the following output, any help would be 
>greatly appreciated...
>
>Doug P
>
>apt-get install mailman
<snip>
>No updates are necessary.
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 297, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 272, in main
>     r = [do_list(listname, args, func) for listname in Utils.list_names()]
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 201, in do_list
>     return func(m, *args)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/unicodify_archives.py", line 59, in 
>unicodify_archives
>     h.database.mapKeys(unicodify_fst, archive, hdr)
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 341, 
>in mapKeys
>     self.__openIndices(archive)
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 251, 
>in __openIndices
>     t = DumbBTree(os.path.join(arcdir, archive + '-' + i))
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 65, 
>in __init__
>     self.load()
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 170, 
>in load
>     self.dict = marshal.load(fp)
>ValueError: bad marshal data
>dpkg: error processing mailman (--configure):
>  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1
>Errors were encountered while processing:
>  mailman


The installation of your package is trying to run something on the
order of

bin/withlist -a -r unicodify_archives

Since the bin/unicodify_archives.py module is apparently unique to your
package as is the running of it against all lists via withlist, I
think you might be more successful seeking help from Debian.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adamsca at gmail.com  Thu May 24 18:37:32 2007
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 09:37:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman aliases
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705231834450937fd632c96@msapiro>
References: <27572d930705231139r390d52d0ufce01b3fa20bbe9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200705231834450937fd632c96@msapiro>
Message-ID: <27572d930705240937t73ea946epa18456d6a4c84251@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for all your ideas. I was just a bit surprised that a list
would be available for anyone to post to, since we emphasize to our
users that their lists are protected from spam, as all lists require
you to be a subscribe to post, and many require mod permissions to
post. That is still true and they are well protected, except for the
message sent directly to listname-owner.

Anyway, I will have to figure out a way to deal with the increase in
spam that I get at the mailman posting address. It is better to have
valid messages getting to me than to go nowhere, as they did before I
set up the mailman aliases for the mailman list.

Thanks for your answers.

On 5/23/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Christopher Adams wrote:
>
> >Thanks, Mark. That seemed too obvious. Doesn't setting
> >generic_nonmember_action to accept result in a lot of spam to the
> >Mailman site admin? How are others dealing with this?
>
>
> First, let me say that if your listinfo overview page says "If you are
> having trouble using the lists, please contact mailman at example.com",
> you should actually look at that mail.
>
> Unfortunately, changing the overview pages to not say that requires
> patching Mailman code so it isn't always feasable to remove the
> message. This will change in some future release, but that doesn't
> help the immediate situation.
>
> You can do other things with the list settings, but setting the list to
> reject or discard non-member posts is not right IMO. Setting the list
> to hold non-member posts is OK, but then the list admin or moderator
> has to deal with them anyway, so why not just accept them, at least if
> the person who receives them from the list is the same person who has
> to deal with them if they're held.
>
> You can also set some header_filter_rules to try to discard some spam
> if you can identify it that way.
>
> The first step though is to have some kind of spam filtering and/or
> greylisting on incoming mail so as little spam as possible even gets
> to Mailman in the first place. That's what I do for my lists and the
> list admins have to deal with the rest. And yes, I still spend an
> inordinate amount of time checking spam at least cursorily for
> legitimate messages.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From Aaron.Schubert at dhss.mo.gov  Thu May 24 18:30:56 2007
From: Aaron.Schubert at dhss.mo.gov (Aaron Schubert)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 11:30:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing lists fail
Message-ID: <4655776B.AB84.001A.0@dhss.mo.gov>

We are currently are running mailman on a Redhat box called listserv.  This box sits in the DMZ.  We also have our mail servers which are sitting inside the DMZ which pass traffic to our sendmail relay box to get to "listserv". Our mail is current mail setup looks like this:

Groupwise   --------> Sendmail Relay ----------> Listserv
(Client mails to list)    (Relays mail to DMZ)       (Accepts list and mails out)

Once listserv gets the mail it then delivers to the recipients.  It's route is like this:

Listserv  ----------->Sendmail Relay------------>Recipients (Can be internal or external)

On the Sendmail Relay I see mail successfully going from Groupwise to Relay to Listserv.  They are all accepted and reach the correct place.  But when Listserv sends the mail back out to the recipients I see the following errors on the Relay server from the maillog:

Listserv maillog:

stat=Deferred: Connection timed out with sendmailrelay.xxxxx.xxxx

Sendmail Relay maillog:

May 23 14:07:31 hostname sendmail[19397]: l4NJ1qpd019397: listserv.xxxx.xxxx [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] did not issue MAIL/EXPN/VRFY/ETRN during connection to MTA

May 23 14:14:32 hostname sendmail[19439]: l4NJEUUY019439: lost input channel from xxxx.xxxx.xxxx [xxx.xxx.xx.xxx] to MTA after mail

I have replaced the hostnames and ip addresses with xx for security reasons.  The mail successfully makes it from the user through the relay and then to the listserv.  But when it comes bash through,  it get the errors.

I can telnet to the sendmail relay on port 25 from listserv just fine,  I can send and external mail to my earthlink account from listserv just fine using the command line "mail -s Test xxxxx at earthlink.net.  I can see my mail successfully go through the listserv and the mail relay, then out.  But when it tries to send outbound to a list is when it doesn't go through and I see the message.

Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks.


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu May 24 21:05:38 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 14:05:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing lists fail
In-Reply-To: <4655776B.AB84.001A.0@dhss.mo.gov>
References: <4655776B.AB84.001A.0@dhss.mo.gov>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00705241205g4b86862cs977b6e7489b53cdb@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/24/07, Aaron Schubert <Aaron.Schubert at dhss.mo.gov> wrote:
> We are currently are running mailman on a Redhat box called listserv.  This box sits in
> the DMZ.  We also have our mail servers which are sitting inside the DMZ which pass
> traffic to our sendmail relay box to get to "listserv". Our mail is current mail setup looks
> like this:
This may or may not have any bearing on the problem, but:
What version of mailman are you running?

(snip)

> I have replaced the hostnames and ip addresses with xx for security reasons.  The mail
> successfully makes it from the user through the relay and then to the listserv.  But when it
> comes bash through,  it get the errors.
Did your configuration ever work? If so, has anything changed?


-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From lists at viplist.us  Thu May 24 20:57:37 2007
From: lists at viplist.us (Lloyd F. Tennison)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 11:57:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Splitting Subject
In-Reply-To: <200407251840.AA7208996@mail.ev1.net>
References: <200407251840.AA7208996@mail.ev1.net>
Message-ID: <46557DB1.27208.2500792@lists.viplist.us>

Am having a problem where Mailman is splitting a subject and adding a "\n" 
and what seems to be a tab in the subject line in the mail logs.(The tab is 
what can be seen in the headers after the message is sent.)  This of course, 
makes for a wrong display in mail clients.  They only thing I can see, is that 
the break occurs in the same place and it is shown in the view message 
screen.  The pck does not show any control characters there, however, so it 
must be doing it on transport.

Sending the exact same email with the same subject not through Mailman 
does not have the same problem.

MTA is exim 4.66.


Thanks.

Lloyd F. Tennison
lloyd at viplist.us

No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message.
However, a rather large number of electrons were temporarily
inconvenienced.


From cpz at tuunq.com  Thu May 24 23:21:53 2007
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 14:21:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Splitting Subject
In-Reply-To: <46557DB1.27208.2500792@lists.viplist.us> from "Lloyd F. Tennison"
	at "May 24, 2007 11:57:37 am"
Message-ID: <20070524212153.AC3517B0@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Lloyd F. Tennison wrote:
> Am having a problem where Mailman is splitting a subject and adding a "\n" 
> and what seems to be a tab in the subject line in the mail logs.(The tab is 
> what can be seen in the headers after the message is sent.)  This of course, 
> makes for a wrong display in mail clients. 

This was just discussed last week (or the week before). In short, the 
subject-line folding is correct, the mail client behavour is not.
Please check this list's archives for a discussion.

z!

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri May 25 00:15:05 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 17:15:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing lists fail
In-Reply-To: <4655776B.AB84.001A.0@dhss.mo.gov>
References: <4655776B.AB84.001A.0@dhss.mo.gov>
Message-ID: <p06240803c27bbe861107@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/24/07, Aaron Schubert wrote:

>  On the Sendmail Relay I see mail successfully going from Groupwise to Relay
>  to Listserv.  They are all accepted and reach the correct place.  But when
>  Listserv sends the mail back out to the recipients I see the following
>  errors on the Relay server from the maillog:

So far, this sounds like a problem with your MTA as opposed to a 
problem with Mailman.

If so, then I doubt that we're likely to be able to provide much help 
here.  You may have more luck in obtaining assistance from web sites, 
documentation, mailing lists, etc... that are dedicated to supporting 
your particular MTA.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From lists at viplist.us  Fri May 25 00:15:52 2007
From: lists at viplist.us (Lloyd F. Tennison)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 15:15:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Splitting Subject
Message-ID: <4655AC28.26131.3058770@lists.viplist.us>

I saw that, but it is not really an answer as te problem is that it is inserting a 
TAB, not whitespace, and that is what is causing the problem.  A carriage 
return and spaces would be fine. The tab is what most clients cannot 
handle.


----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Splitting Subject
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 14:21:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Lloyd F. Tennison wrote:
> Am having a problem where Mailman is splitting a subject and adding a "\n" 
> and what seems to be a tab in the subject line in the mail logs.(The tab is 
> what can be seen in the headers after the message is sent.)  This of course, 
> makes for a wrong display in mail clients. 

This was just discussed last week (or the week before). In short, the 
subject-line folding is correct, the mail client behavour is not.
Please check this list's archives for a discussion.

z!
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-
users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
users/lists%40viplist.us

Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-
mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

Thanks.

Lloyd F. Tennison
lloyd at viplist.us

No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message.
However, a rather large number of electrons were temporarily
inconvenienced.


From cpz at tuunq.com  Fri May 25 01:27:45 2007
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 16:27:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Splitting Subject
In-Reply-To: <4655AC28.26131.3058770@lists.viplist.us> from "Lloyd F. Tennison"
	at "May 24, 2007 03:15:52 pm"
Message-ID: <20070524232745.5DF827B0@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Lloyd F. Tennison wrote:
> I saw that, but it is not really an answer as te problem is that it is inserting a 
> TAB, not whitespace, and that is what is causing the problem.  A carriage 
> return and spaces would be fine. The tab is what most clients cannot 
> handle.

A tab character (^i or 0x11) -is- whitespace. (Also, in most implimentations,
newline, formfeed, vertical tab, and carrage return.)  Unicode defines 
even more.

z!

From carconni at earthlink.net  Fri May 25 02:04:33 2007
From: carconni at earthlink.net (carconni)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 17:04:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving Lists
Message-ID: <0ACBF3A4-29AF-48C0-A0D4-24044BD7DA5D@earthlink.net>

Hi,

I'm having some trouble with my mail server (xserve 10.4.9).  We  
discovered that there were some hardware issues and I'm in the  
process of building a new mail server to replace the old.  I  
understand that the current MAC OS doesn't support clustering so what  
we would like to do is move user data to a shared drive.  The service  
will remain on the server but we'd like to move the data to a shared  
file system.  Only one server will be processing mail but because of  
multiple failures, we'd like to find a way to safeguard our data.

I'm moving postfix's /var/spool to /mounted_file_share/mail/var/spool  
and I've changed the path in the main.cf file to point to it.  Is  
there anyway to do this with mailman?  Can I move /var/mailman to / 
mounted_file_share/var/mailman and is there a configuration file in / 
usr/share/mailman that I should modify?

Thank you



From cbraxton at iname.com  Fri May 25 04:58:30 2007
From: cbraxton at iname.com (Carter Braxton)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 21:58:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maximum template size?
Message-ID: <20070525025830.14D74478088@ws1-5.us4.outblaze.com>

I tried to modify the "invite.txt" template to include an FAQ with invitations that are mailed out. However, variable substitution in the template body stops working when the FAQ is included. (The invited person receives a message that includes text like "confirm %(cookie)s" instead of the confirmation string, etc.) Diagnostics such as the following appear in the error log file:

 broken template: /var/lib/mailman/templates/en/invite.txt int argument required

The only difference between the file that works (original) and the one getting the errors is the inclusion of the FAQ, the original template text is included otherwise unchanged. Is this problem due to a size limitation on template files? If so, is this configurable?

=
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From cbraxton at iname.com  Fri May 25 05:13:14 2007
From: cbraxton at iname.com (Carter Braxton)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 22:13:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What happens to expired invitations?
Message-ID: <20070525031314.AE84B1CE303@ws1-6.us4.outblaze.com>

How are expired invitations handled? Are they actually deleted from the pending database, or are they just marked as expired? If the latter is there any way to reactivate them?

I stupidly managed to send out some invites that wound up with an expiration of zero days -- didn't realize that when adding PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE to mm_cfg.py that this variable needs an arg of "days(10)" rather than just "10" to set a 10 day expiration time. Now people are being turned down trying to confirm invitations that have immediately expired. (D'oh!)

(I expect it will be necessary to send replacement invitations now that the PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE variable is properly set, but thought I'd check first...)


=
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Cambridge transcriptions provides fast, accurate and professional transcription services to legal, medical and corporate clients. Court reporter and videographer services also available.
http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=3acbcd5b3263dafce99582c4a2708ea5


From douglas at intermind.net  Fri May 25 05:21:45 2007
From: douglas at intermind.net (Douglas Phillipson)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 20:21:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuration script bails
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705231859050921bc61f95e@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200705231859050921bc61f95e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <46565649.5060507@intermind.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Douglas Phillipson wrote:
> 
>> Installed on Debian Testing, mailman updates fail, causing other 
>> packages to fail to install with the following output, any help would be 
>> greatly appreciated...
>>
>> Doug P
>>
>> apt-get install mailman
> <snip>
>> No updates are necessary.
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 297, in ?
>>     main()
>>   File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 272, in main
>>     r = [do_list(listname, args, func) for listname in Utils.list_names()]
>>   File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 201, in do_list
>>     return func(m, *args)
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/unicodify_archives.py", line 59, in 
>> unicodify_archives
>>     h.database.mapKeys(unicodify_fst, archive, hdr)
>>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 341, 
>> in mapKeys
>>     self.__openIndices(archive)
>>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 251, 
>> in __openIndices
>>     t = DumbBTree(os.path.join(arcdir, archive + '-' + i))
>>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 65, 
>> in __init__
>>     self.load()
>>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 170, 
>> in load
>>     self.dict = marshal.load(fp)
>> ValueError: bad marshal data
>> dpkg: error processing mailman (--configure):
>>  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1
>> Errors were encountered while processing:
>>  mailman
> 
> 
> The installation of your package is trying to run something on the
> order of
> 
> bin/withlist -a -r unicodify_archives
> 
> Since the bin/unicodify_archives.py module is apparently unique to your
> package as is the running of it against all lists via withlist, I
> think you might be more successful seeking help from Debian.
> 
Mark Sapiro wrote:
 > Douglas Phillipson wrote:
 >
 >> Installed on Debian Testing, mailman updates fail, causing other 
packages to fail to install with the following output, any help would be 
greatly appreciated...
 >>
 >> Doug P
 >>
 >> apt-get install mailman
 > <snip>
 >> No updates are necessary.
 >> Traceback (most recent call last):
 >>   File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 297, in ?
 >>     main()
 >>   File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 272, in main
 >>     r = [do_list(listname, args, func) for listname in 
Utils.list_names()]
 >>   File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/withlist", line 201, in do_list
 >>     return func(m, *args)
 >>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/unicodify_archives.py", line 59, in 
unicodify_archives
 >>     h.database.mapKeys(unicodify_fst, archive, hdr)
 >>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 
341, in mapKeys
 >>     self.__openIndices(archive)
 >>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 
251, in __openIndices
 >>     t = DumbBTree(os.path.join(arcdir, archive + '-' + i))
 >>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 
65, in __init__
 >>     self.load()
 >>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 
170, in load
 >>     self.dict = marshal.load(fp)
 >> ValueError: bad marshal data
 >> dpkg: error processing mailman (--configure):
 >>  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1
 >> Errors were encountered while processing:
 >>  mailman
 >
 >
 > The installation of your package is trying to run something on the
 > order of
 >
 > bin/withlist -a -r unicodify_archives
 >
 > Since the bin/unicodify_archives.py module is apparently unique to your
 > package as is the running of it against all lists via withlist, I
 > think you might be more successful seeking help from Debian.
 >

This is the standard Debian repository version of mailman.  Any debian 
users out there ever see this problem?

Thanks


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri May 25 06:17:12 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 23:17:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving Lists
In-Reply-To: <0ACBF3A4-29AF-48C0-A0D4-24044BD7DA5D@earthlink.net>
References: <0ACBF3A4-29AF-48C0-A0D4-24044BD7DA5D@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p06240801c27c12a9321c@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/24/07, carconni wrote:

>  I'm moving postfix's /var/spool to /mounted_file_share/mail/var/spool
>  and I've changed the path in the main.cf file to point to it.

Postfix is not designed to be used on a shared filesystem.  In fact, 
most shared filesystems violate some rules that most local 
filesystems follow, and even if you've only got the one machine that 
is accessing the data, the simple fact that it's on a shared 
filesystem will cause problems.

In short, I'd avoid this kind of solution like the plague, as far as 
postfix is concerned.  It may be okay to store certain types of user 
mailboxes out on NFS (or other shared filesystem type), but not the 
mail queues themselves.

>  Is there anyway to do this with mailman?  Can I move /var/mailman to
>  /mounted_file_share/var/mailman and is there a configuration file in
>  /usr/share/mailman that I should modify?

In contrast, Mailman is designed to be as NFS-compatible as possible, 
and so long as the underlying filesystem either operates as a normal 
local filesystem, or at least follows the same rules that NFS does, 
then you should be okay.

You should be able to move the entire /usr/local/mailman hierarchy 
out onto NFS, and Mailman should "just work" -- more or less.  There 
will be certain types of filesystem problems that even Mailman can't 
solve for you in those kinds of situations, but it will do as much as 
can be done.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri May 25 06:46:08 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 23:46:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving Lists
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c27c12a9321c@[192.168.1.66]>
References: <0ACBF3A4-29AF-48C0-A0D4-24044BD7DA5D@earthlink.net>
	<p06240801c27c12a9321c@[192.168.1.66]>
Message-ID: <p06240802c27c16dd2de4@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/24/07, Brad Knowles wrote:

>  In short, I'd avoid this kind of solution like the plague, as far as
>  postfix is concerned.  It may be okay to store certain types of user
>  mailboxes out on NFS (or other shared filesystem type), but not the
>  mail queues themselves.

I should also say that most mailbox formats are not safe to store on 
NFS, or any other kind of typical shared filesystem.  If you spend 
the really big bucks and you get Veritas VxFS (plus all their 
cluster-aware software) on big honking Sun Solaris servers, then you 
may be able to store them on a shared filesystem (if you do it 
right), but at that point I imagine you'd have enough money that you 
wouldn't need to be coming to us with questions.

There are some mailbox formats that are supposedly safe to store on 
NFS, but even they have some issues and extra baggage that they bring 
to the table, and which I imagine you are probably not aware of.


Of course, most NFS implementations would still leave you with a 
single-point-of-failure (SPOF), that being your NFS server.

The only way to resolve that one is to go with a clustered NFS server 
solution, such as sold by the folks at Network Appliance.  But those 
things are pretty damn bloody expensive, too.  Even so, they're still 
a lot less expensive than solutions from the likes of EMC or Hitachi 
Data Systems.


Now, if you're talking about a shared filesystem type that is 
anything but NFS, then you've got a whole 'nother Universe of 
problems.

Yes, I know about GFS from what used to be Sistina (since bought by 
Red Hat), and I know one of their former senior architects -- he's 
been my co-author on some of the invited talks I've done, and I've 
been a technical reviewer of his book.  I also know about things like 
Coda (or AFS), and a wide variety of other distributed filesystem 
solutions.

No, I'm not going to buy any sales pitch regarding how they're the 
perfect solution for problems like this.  If you want a real 
distributed cluster-aware filesystem for use with mail servers, then 
you're going to have to pay some real money.  It's that simple.

Veritas VxFS isn't necessarily the only solution here, but it is one 
of the best known.  There are other alternatives in this space, but 
they are equally expensive.  And no, Veritas VxFS on Linux is not the 
same as Veritas VxFS on Solaris.


Since you're using Mailman on Mac OS X, I should also point out FAQ 
1.21 and 1.29 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp> 
and 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.029.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From carconni at earthlink.net  Fri May 25 07:12:48 2007
From: carconni at earthlink.net (carconni)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 22:12:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving Lists
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c27c16dd2de4@[192.168.1.66]>
References: <0ACBF3A4-29AF-48C0-A0D4-24044BD7DA5D@earthlink.net>
	<p06240801c27c12a9321c@[192.168.1.66]>
	<p06240802c27c16dd2de4@[192.168.1.66]>
Message-ID: <BD86A50F-46A3-4364-97A4-71427B07F23F@earthlink.net>

Brad,

Thank you!  It sounds like you've saved me a lot of heartache.  We  
have a Netapps that I was hoping to mount on the mail server  and was  
hoping I could avoid losing mail when the mail server ran into problems.

It's my understanding that the next version on Leopard will support  
mail clustering so the solution I was looking for was somewhat  
temporary.  I'll have to give this a lot more thought.


On May 24, 2007, at 9:46 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> On 5/24/07, Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>>  In short, I'd avoid this kind of solution like the plague, as far as
>>  postfix is concerned.  It may be okay to store certain types of user
>>  mailboxes out on NFS (or other shared filesystem type), but not the
>>  mail queues themselves.
>
> I should also say that most mailbox formats are not safe to store  
> on NFS, or any other kind of typical shared filesystem.  If you  
> spend the really big bucks and you get Veritas VxFS (plus all their  
> cluster-aware software) on big honking Sun Solaris servers, then  
> you may be able to store them on a shared filesystem (if you do it  
> right), but at that point I imagine you'd have enough money that  
> you wouldn't need to be coming to us with questions.
>
> There are some mailbox formats that are supposedly safe to store on  
> NFS, but even they have some issues and extra baggage that they  
> bring to the table, and which I imagine you are probably not aware of.
>
>
> Of course, most NFS implementations would still leave you with a  
> single-point-of-failure (SPOF), that being your NFS server.
>
> The only way to resolve that one is to go with a clustered NFS  
> server solution, such as sold by the folks at Network Appliance.   
> But those things are pretty damn bloody expensive, too.  Even so,  
> they're still a lot less expensive than solutions from the likes of  
> EMC or Hitachi Data Systems.
>
>
> Now, if you're talking about a shared filesystem type that is  
> anything but NFS, then you've got a whole 'nother Universe of  
> problems.
>
> Yes, I know about GFS from what used to be Sistina (since bought by  
> Red Hat), and I know one of their former senior architects -- he's  
> been my co-author on some of the invited talks I've done, and I've  
> been a technical reviewer of his book.  I also know about things  
> like Coda (or AFS), and a wide variety of other distributed  
> filesystem solutions.
>
> No, I'm not going to buy any sales pitch regarding how they're the  
> perfect solution for problems like this.  If you want a real  
> distributed cluster-aware filesystem for use with mail servers,  
> then you're going to have to pay some real money.  It's that simple.
>
> Veritas VxFS isn't necessarily the only solution here, but it is  
> one of the best known.  There are other alternatives in this space,  
> but they are equally expensive.  And no, Veritas VxFS on Linux is  
> not the same as Veritas VxFS on Solaris.
>
>
> Since you're using Mailman on Mac OS X, I should also point out FAQ  
> 1.21 and 1.29 at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&file=faq01.021.htp> and <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/ 
> faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.029.htp>.
>
> -- 
> Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
> Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>
>
> 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
>


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri May 25 07:28:05 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 00:28:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving Lists
In-Reply-To: <BD86A50F-46A3-4364-97A4-71427B07F23F@earthlink.net>
References: <0ACBF3A4-29AF-48C0-A0D4-24044BD7DA5D@earthlink.net>
	<p06240801c27c12a9321c@[192.168.1.66]>
	<p06240802c27c16dd2de4@[192.168.1.66]>
	<BD86A50F-46A3-4364-97A4-71427B07F23F@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p06240803c27c22e7007e@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/24/07, carconni wrote:

>  Thank you!  It sounds like you've saved me a lot of heartache.  We have
>  a Netapps that I was hoping to mount on the mail server  and was hoping
>  I could avoid losing mail when the mail server ran into problems.

You can copy stuff up there, as a periodic backup process.  I did 
that kind of thing when I was the Sr. Internet Mail Administrator for 
Global Network Navigator, which was a joint venture between AOL and 
O'Reilly & Associates, and while it started out as the first major 
Internet portal, it later became the first nationwide ISP.

But don't try to use a mail spool on top of NFS as a live filesystem.

>  It's my understanding that the next version on Leopard will support
>  mail clustering so the solution I was looking for was somewhat
>  temporary.  I'll have to give this a lot more thought.

Yeah, I don't think I'd really buy that.  At best, that's a version 
1.0 product from a company that doesn't really understand Enterprise 
requirements.


If you want to know how to properly build or operate a mail cluster, 
I can point you to slides from invited talks that I've presented at 
various conferences (see 
<http://www.shub-internet.org/brad/papers/>), and consulting work 
that I've done for large corporations.

I'm not currently in a position to officially do more of that kind of 
consulting now, but I can at least give you some guidance, and may be 
able to help you find someone who could help you implement that sort 
of thing.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Fri May 25 08:36:17 2007
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 08:36:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Splitting Subject
In-Reply-To: <4655AC28.26131.3058770@lists.viplist.us>
References: <4655AC28.26131.3058770@lists.viplist.us>
Message-ID: <20070525063617.GA32129@charite.de>

* Lloyd F. Tennison <lists at viplist.us>:
> I saw that, but it is not really an answer as te problem is that it is inserting a 
> TAB, not whitespace, 

Tab is a whitespace character, isn't it?

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                    send no mail to plonk at charite.de

From ibatis2 at 163.com  Fri May 25 09:49:49 2007
From: ibatis2 at 163.com (jetspeed)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 15:49:49 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No domain name,
	Can I use mailman to build a maillist?
Message-ID: <20070525154949.80382d80.ibatis2@163.com>

I use exim4 as MTA, and mailman as maillist 
But I have no domain name besides my IP, so mails from other smtp servers can't be relayed to my MTA, How can I deal with this situation?

Thx a lot



From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Fri May 25 15:30:05 2007
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 07:30:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "No subject" messages in archives
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200705211037280890ec0b15f6@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200705211037280890ec0b15f6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4656E4DD.5090205@pauahtun.org>

Hi All--

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> So, if I process the old mbox and convert the "From " lines without 
>> dates into "From " lines without " and <> and add a date/time stamp, and 
>> THEN run cleanarch, cleanarch should escape only the 1006 non-matching 
>> "From " lines, and I should end up with an mbox I can combine with 
>> March, April and May of 2007 from the current list.  Is that a correct 
>> assessment?
> 
> 
> That is correct, but if you can process the old mbox and identify which
> "From " lines without dates are actually message separators, then you
> should be able to identify which ones are not message separators and
> just escape those. I.e. create your own archive cleaner specific to
> this situation.
> 

Which is exactly what I did.  I ran cleanarch on the result, and it 
found four instances of bad email addresses, as in "foo bar"@spam.org 
(the " were part of the address), but luckily, those four instances were 
forwarded messages, and did indeed need to be escaped.

OK.  Now I have a large inbox to re-process (110 MB), but before I do 
that, I have to remove all the previously processed messages from the 
current archive.  The FAQ ("3.3. How can I remove a post from the list 
archive / remove an entire archive?") says to "edit the raw archive".

Editing 122 MB of raw archive is going to take some time, since I have 
to throw away 110 MB of it.  I'd like to prevent new messages from 
coming into the system while I'm editing it, and I seem to be 
overlooking instructions on how to lock the list.  I find that the help 
message for withlist tells me how to lock the list while I operate on it 
using withlist, but is that what I want?  Can I vi/emacs the mbox while 
it is locked with withlist?

Am I simply obtuse, or is there no way to lock the list while I'm 
editing?  Or do I throw caution to the winds and blithely edit without 
concern for incoming messages?

Thanks for all your help, and patience.

Metta,
Ivan
-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

From barry at python.org  Fri May 25 15:48:46 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 09:48:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "No subject" messages in archives
In-Reply-To: <4656E4DD.5090205@pauahtun.org>
References: <PC1760200705211037280890ec0b15f6@msapiro>
	<4656E4DD.5090205@pauahtun.org>
Message-ID: <1F3C6E62-EFEE-4DC4-92E4-344AE8E4E798@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On May 25, 2007, at 9:30 AM, Ivan Van Laningham wrote:

> Editing 122 MB of raw archive is going to take some time, since I have
> to throw away 110 MB of it.  I'd like to prevent new messages from
> coming into the system while I'm editing it, and I seem to be
> overlooking instructions on how to lock the list.  I find that the  
> help
> message for withlist tells me how to lock the list while I operate  
> on it
> using withlist, but is that what I want?  Can I vi/emacs the mbox  
> while
> it is locked with withlist?
>
> Am I simply obtuse, or is there no way to lock the list while I'm
> editing?  Or do I throw caution to the winds and blithely edit without
> concern for incoming messages?

Hi Ivan,

Can you just turn off mailmanctl while you're editing the inbox?   
Okay, this will shut down your Mailman system globally, which you  
might not want to do, but it's as safe as it gets.

If you specifically want to block messages just to the list your  
editing, then yes, lock it with bin/withlist and just edit the mbox.

Another option is to restart mailmanctl but temporarily disable the  
ArchRunner.  You should be safe to edit the mbox file then, and just  
delay updating all your archives (including the mbox archives) until  
you've finished your surgery, while the rest of the system continues  
to churn away.

Cheers,
- -Barry

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From turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp  Fri May 25 16:04:48 2007
From: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 23:04:48 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Splitting Subject
In-Reply-To: <4655AC28.26131.3058770@lists.viplist.us>
References: <4655AC28.26131.3058770@lists.viplist.us>
Message-ID: <87myzt3sov.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Lloyd F. Tennison writes:

 > I saw that, but it is not really an answer as te problem is that it
 > is inserting a TAB, not whitespace, and that is what is causing the
 > problem.  A carriage return and spaces would be fine. The tab is
 > what most clients cannot handle.

Carl's reply notwithstanding, Barry considers this "something we
should do something about".

It's almost a trivial patch; in the email/Generator.py file find the
keyword argument continuation_ws='\t' to the Header initialization and
change the '\t' to ' '.

Unfortunately, on my Debian system that is in the main Python library,
and I will not mess with that (nor recommend that you do so).  If you
have one of the Mailman installations with a self-contained email
package (ie, in .../mailman/Mailman/mailman), then it is probably safe
to do that surgery.  I believe you'll have to restart Mailman, but
Python will pick up the change automagically.


 > 
 > 
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Splitting Subject
 > Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 14:21:53 -0700 (PDT)
 > From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
 > 
 > In a flurry of recycled electrons, Lloyd F. Tennison wrote:
 > > Am having a problem where Mailman is splitting a subject and adding a "\n" 
 > > and what seems to be a tab in the subject line in the mail logs.(The tab is 
 > > what can be seen in the headers after the message is sent.)  This of course, 
 > > makes for a wrong display in mail clients. 
 > 
 > This was just discussed last week (or the week before). In short, the 
 > subject-line folding is correct, the mail client behavour is not.
 > Please check this list's archives for a discussion.
 > 
 > z!
 > ------------------------------------------------------
 > Mailman-Users mailing list
 > Mailman-Users at python.org
 > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
 > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-
 > users%40python.org/
 > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
 > users/lists%40viplist.us
 > 
 > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-
 > mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
 > 
 > Thanks.
 > 
 > Lloyd F. Tennison
 > lloyd at viplist.us
 > 
 > No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message.
 > However, a rather large number of electrons were temporarily
 > inconvenienced.
 > 
 > ------------------------------------------------------
 > Mailman-Users mailing list
 > Mailman-Users at python.org
 > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
 > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
 > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/stephen%40xemacs.org
 > 
 > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Fri May 25 16:14:28 2007
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 08:14:28 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "No subject" messages in archives
In-Reply-To: <1F3C6E62-EFEE-4DC4-92E4-344AE8E4E798@python.org>
References: <PC1760200705211037280890ec0b15f6@msapiro>
	<4656E4DD.5090205@pauahtun.org>
	<1F3C6E62-EFEE-4DC4-92E4-344AE8E4E798@python.org>
Message-ID: <4656EF44.2040209@pauahtun.org>

Hi All--
Ah, thanks, Barry.  I will try one of these methods, probably the 
withlist one, and report back later today.  If all goes well, I'll be 
able to update two FAQ entries, the one about removing archive entries 
and the one about importing messages/archives into your mailing list.

Metta,
Ivan

Barry Warsaw wrote:
> 
> 
> Can you just turn off mailmanctl while you're editing the inbox?  Okay, 
> this will shut down your Mailman system globally, which you might not 
> want to do, but it's as safe as it gets.
> 
> If you specifically want to block messages just to the list your 
> editing, then yes, lock it with bin/withlist and just edit the mbox.
> 
> Another option is to restart mailmanctl but temporarily disable the 
> ArchRunner.  You should be safe to edit the mbox file then, and just 
> delay updating all your archives (including the mbox archives) until 
> you've finished your surgery, while the rest of the system continues to 
> churn away.
> 

-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Fri May 25 17:08:29 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 10:08:29 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listing Subscriptions with bounce_score>0
Message-ID: <200705251508.l4PF8TXi024014@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

I have previously posted to this list about lists that I have whose
membership is based on external sources (e.g., a Human Resources
database).  I update the list memberships daily via

     sync_members

One problem I have is with bounce processing.  All bounces are processed
by Mailman, which updates a bounce_score for the subscriber.  Some
of these lists are used infrequently, so I set

     bounce_info_stale_after = 40

I have set

     bounce_notify_owner_on_disable = Yes

so the owner will see all subscriptions disabled due to bounces.

I have not changed

     bounce_score_threshold = 5.0

so there can be a number of bounces before the threshold is reached,
the subscription is disabled, and the list owner is notified.

I want to know about all bounces so that I can have the HR database
updated, if necessary.  What I want to do is run a cron job daily that
will list all of the subscriptions in all of the lists where
bounce_score>0.  I started cloning list_members, but I decided that
before I go too far I should ask this list (1) if anyone has done this
and can share the code, and (2) if this is the proper way to proceed.
Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Fri May 25 19:17:07 2007
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 11:17:07 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "No subject" messages in archives
Message-ID: <46571A13.2070700@pauahtun.org>

Hi All--
I wrote:
> Ah, thanks, Barry.  I will try one of these methods, probably the 
> withlist one, and report back later today.  If all goes well, I'll be 
> able to update two FAQ entries, the one about removing archive entries 
> and the one about importing messages/archives into your mailing list.

I locked the list with withlist.  I then edited the .mbox file with vim 
and deleted 2662737 lines, all the messages that had malformed 'From ' 
lines (no dates at the end of the lines).  On my somewhat slow machine 
(2.2GHZ Celeron), with only a gig of memory, this took about 10 minutes. 
  I was willing to wait. ;-)

After saving modified .mbox, I exited withlist without saving.  I then 
catted the corrected old archive .mbox file to the end of the modified 
.mbox.  Then I ran arch.  That, too, took a while, maybe half-an-hour 
for about 49,000 messages.  Again, I was willing to wait. ;-)

Once it finished, I went to the latest, May 2007, archive index page. 
Here is the top of that page:

 >>>
May 2007 Archives by date

     * Messages sorted by: [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
     * More info on this list...

Starting: Tue May 1 04:17:11 MDT 2007
Ending: Fri May 25 09:53:46 MDT 2007
Messages: 928
<<<

"Messages: 928" is a WHOLE LOT better than "Messages: 5928".  ;-)

I couldn't be more pleased.  I'm chuffed!  Thanks to everyone.  I'll be 
updating the FAQ entries concerned later today, I hope.  Or would it be 
better to post the corrected entries here first in order to get input on 
them upfront?


I looked at the remainder of the archives, and I found only two 
oddities, both on the same page.  Here is the relevant section of the 
index page:

# Peter Abresch   Ellen Stanton
# No subject   Judith Miller
#   Marilyn Kapp
# Happy: Up, down, up, down...   Jmacampora at aol.com
# Guppy Digest   Jmacampora at aol.com
#   Jmacampora at aol.com
# Guppies/Janet A.   Lanier Dodson

The "Marilyn Kapp" and the third "Jmacampora at aol.com" entries have no 
subjects and no links to them.  The previous entries are missing the 
"Next message" links, and the following entries are missing the 
"Previous message" links.

I'm actually willing to live with these, unless they're damaging the 
archives somehow.  Any guesses as to how difficult it would be to fix 
these by say, simply editing the .mbox and re-running arch --wipe?

Metta,
Ivan
-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri May 25 20:23:23 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 13:23:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maximum template size?
In-Reply-To: <20070525025830.14D74478088@ws1-5.us4.outblaze.com>
References: <20070525025830.14D74478088@ws1-5.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00705251123y718e564fv941aca563cfe46a8@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/24/07, Carter Braxton <cbraxton at iname.com> wrote:
>  broken template: /var/lib/mailman/templates/en/invite.txt int argument required
Doesn't look like a size limitation.

Can you send your new template to the list so we can look at it?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From barry at python.org  Fri May 25 20:57:15 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 14:57:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "No subject" messages in archives
In-Reply-To: <46571A13.2070700@pauahtun.org>
References: <46571A13.2070700@pauahtun.org>
Message-ID: <B4295092-E0AC-4D00-AB4D-3E62B7955A01@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On May 25, 2007, at 1:17 PM, Ivan Van Laningham wrote:

> I locked the list with withlist.  I then edited the .mbox file with  
> vim
> and deleted 2662737 lines, all the messages that had malformed 'From '
> lines (no dates at the end of the lines).  On my somewhat slow machine
> (2.2GHZ Celeron), with only a gig of memory, this took about 10  
> minutes.
>   I was willing to wait. ;-)
>
> After saving modified .mbox, I exited withlist without saving.  I then
> catted the corrected old archive .mbox file to the end of the modified
> .mbox.  Then I ran arch.  That, too, took a while, maybe half-an-hour
> for about 49,000 messages.  Again, I was willing to wait. ;-)

The only thing I would add is that the default lock lifetime is 15  
seconds, so it's possible some other process would have broken the  
lock during that time.  That you didn't get an exception when you  
exited (and thus unlocked) the list is a good sign that didn't  
happen. ;)

Given the MailList object, there's no easy way to extend the lock's  
lifetime.  You can hack the LockFile.py file, or do something like:

 >>> m._MailList__lock.refresh(60 * minute)

> I'm actually willing to live with these, unless they're damaging the
> archives somehow.  Any guesses as to how difficult it would be to fix
> these by say, simply editing the .mbox and re-running arch --wipe?

Unsure.  What does bin/cleanarch -n say?

- -Barry

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From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Fri May 25 21:13:32 2007
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 13:13:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "No subject" messages in archives
In-Reply-To: <B4295092-E0AC-4D00-AB4D-3E62B7955A01@python.org>
References: <46571A13.2070700@pauahtun.org>
	<B4295092-E0AC-4D00-AB4D-3E62B7955A01@python.org>
Message-ID: <4657355C.2010806@pauahtun.org>

Hi All--

Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
> The only thing I would add is that the default lock lifetime is 15 
> seconds, so it's possible some other process would have broken the lock 
> during that time.  That you didn't get an exception when you exited (and 
> thus unlocked) the list is a good sign that didn't happen. ;)
> 

Urk.  I must live right.

> Given the MailList object, there's no easy way to extend the lock's 
> lifetime.  You can hack the LockFile.py file, or do something like:
> 
>  >>> m._MailList__lock.refresh(60 * minute)
> 

Good to know; I'll add that to the FAQ when I can.

>> I'm actually willing to live with these, unless they're damaging the
>> archives somehow.  Any guesses as to how difficult it would be to fix
>> these by say, simply editing the .mbox and re-running arch --wipe?
> 
> Unsure.  What does bin/cleanarch -n say?
> 

$ cleanarch -n <guppies.mbox
43413 messages found
$

I was a little off.

Metta,
Ivan
-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours


From joshua at eeinternet.com  Sat May 26 01:22:33 2007
From: joshua at eeinternet.com (Joshua J. Kugler)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 15:22:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List operates OK, but not listed in admin or info?
Message-ID: <200705251522.34354.joshua@eeinternet.com>

I've recently moved some lists from an old (MM 2.0) box to a new MM 2.1.5 box 
(Ubuntu Dapper).  All the lists are operating normally.  I used a script to 
copy and migrate, changing list owner and URL settings identically.  All 
lists operate correctly, and I can go to the info and admin pages for all of 
them.  However, one list does not show up in the list for 
my.list.host/listinfo or my.list.host/admin.  The URL is set (via fix_url) to 
my.list.host in all the lists, so I'm not sure what's going on.  And trying 
to create a list with that name, obviously fails.

If it matters.  One list is named awra-policy and the list not showing is 
named awra-policy2007.  Does MM have a thing against similar names? :)

Any ideas?

Thanks!

j

-- 
Joshua Kugler                           
Lead System Admin -- Senior Programmer
http://www.eeinternet.com
PGP Key: http://pgp.mit.edu/  ID 0xDB26D7CE
PO Box 80086 -- Fairbanks, AK 99708 -- Ph: 907-456-5581 Fax: 907-456-3111

From joshua at eeinternet.com  Sat May 26 01:37:37 2007
From: joshua at eeinternet.com (Joshua J. Kugler)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 15:37:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List operates OK,
	but not listed in admin or info?
In-Reply-To: <D79DE970-A67E-44A2-80D2-EEFA5D1073A1@music.memphis.edu>
References: <200705251522.34354.joshua@eeinternet.com>
	<D79DE970-A67E-44A2-80D2-EEFA5D1073A1@music.memphis.edu>
Message-ID: <200705251537.37946.joshua@eeinternet.com>

On Friday 25 May 2007 15:29, you wrote:
> On May 25, 2007, at 6:22 PM, Joshua J. Kugler wrote:
> > Any ideas?
>
> The most obvious possibility is if to ask if admin-->privacy options--
>
>  >"Advertise this list when people ask what lists are on this
>
> machine? " is set to yes.

Sigh...that was it.  I guess what threw me off was the fact that it wasn't 
showing in admin either.  I didn't think that setting affected admin.

Thanks!

j

-- 
Joshua Kugler                           
Lead System Admin -- Senior Programmer
http://www.eeinternet.com
PGP Key: http://pgp.mit.edu/  ID 0xDB26D7CE
PO Box 80086 -- Fairbanks, AK 99708 -- Ph: 907-456-5581 Fax: 907-456-3111

From cbraxton at iname.com  Sat May 26 04:54:47 2007
From: cbraxton at iname.com (Carter Braxton)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 21:54:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maximum template size?
Message-ID: <20070526025447.F24171BF258@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com>

"Patrick Bogen" <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Doesn't look like a size limitation.
> Can you send your new template to the list so we can look at it?

Sure thing. The following is the invite.txt file in question (edited to replace identifying names with "test"). It contains a general introduction and an FAQ for prospective list members, most of whom are -- to be kind -- not very computer literate. Following the FAQ is the original system-supplied invitation which when used by itself works as expected.

The reason for the added material is that the first round of invitations resulted in mass confusion, making it apparent that some hand-holding was necessary.

I just tested this to be certain, and the variable substitution does not take place -- the invitation email that is sent contains the variable names rather than the values:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - CUT HERE - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  *****  YOU ARE INVITED TO JOIN THE TEST MAILING LIST *****

This mailing list has been created as a test.

Via this mailing list, members can:

1. Share tips, strategies, and updates.

2. Communicate instantly with a group of like-minded individuals.

3. Request advice, tips, etc.

4. Post links to helpful documents.

5. Request assistance.

The benefits are unlimited. We ask, however, that this service not become
yet another outlet for jokes, etc.

Remember, this list serve is for TEST members *only*.

--> HOW DO I JOIN?

The simplest way is to simply reply to this message, leaving the subject line
intact. More detailed instructions follow.

--> I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS, WHO DO I ASK?

A detailed FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions list) may be found below.

Technical questions regarding the list may be directed to:

    test-owner at test.test

--> I REALLY DON'T WANT TO JOIN RIGHT NOW!

If you do not wish to join the TEST mailing list, simply disregard this
message and you will not be subscribed. (If you change your mind later and
wish to subscribe at a later date, contact us as specified above.) 


===========================================================================
TEST Mailing List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

Version 0.1

Last updated 5/21/2007

Maintained by: TEST list system administrator

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: WHAT IS A MAILING LIST?

A: Email mailing lists are among the oldest methods of group interaction
available on the Internet.  The first such list was the "MsgGroup" mailing
list which was created by Steve Walker, an ARPA program manager, in 1975.
Popular early mailing lists included "human-nets" (human factors and
networks), "network-hackers" (Internet programming), "sf-lovers" (science
fiction), and "wine-tasters" (wine tasting).

Although there have been many technological changes since that time, the
basic idea remains the same: A group of people interested in a particular
subject subscribe to a mailing list. Each email message sent by participants
to a central location is distributed to the entire group for the purpose
of conducting discussions and exchanging information.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THE TEST MAILING LIST?

A: The list was established to encourage the discussion of 
test issues.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: HOW DOES ONE SUBSCRIBE TO THE TEST MAILING LIST?

A: Subscription to the TEST mailing list is restricted to TEST members and
is granted via invitation only.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: WHAT DO I DO AFTER I GET MY INVITATION?

A: Your membership needs to be activated for you to become a list
participant. There are a few ways to do this, but by far the easiest is
to simply reply to the invitation without changing the subject line.

After doing this you will receive a welcome message confirming your
membership.
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: I RECEIVED THE WELCOME MESSAGE, BUT I'M CONFUSED. WHAT ARE
ALL THESE ADDRESSES AND PASSWORDS THAT IT TALKS ABOUT?

A: The primary thing to be aware of is that it is *not* necessary to log
in or to use a password to post to the TEST mailing list. Once your
membership has been confirmed by responding to the invitation, you have
full posting privileges.

The web pages and passwords that the welcome message refers to are
used for changing your membership settings. (For example, you might decide
to receive messages in "digest mode" or you might need to change your email
address. This will be covered in more detail later in this document.)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: SO HOW DO I POST A MESSAGE TO THE LIST?

A: Messages are distributed to the list by sending them to:

     test at test.test

That's all there is to it!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: WHAT ARE THE GROUND RULES FOR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE LIST?

A: In general, messages should be kept to the topics of testing.
The list should not be used as an outlet for jokes, personal messages,
etc. Reasonable manners and conduct should be adhered to. Personal
attacks on other participants and/or intentional disruptions may be
cause for suspension of the offender's subscription.

It is also important to note that while every effort is made to insure
that only TEST members have access to the list, email is *not* a secure
medium. As there can be no guarantee that messages will not be read by
outsiders please do not post information that is best kept private.

The preferred format for messages sent to the list is plain text.
If possible, please configure your email software to send plain text to
the list's posting address.

Attachments are not permitted and a size limit of 40 kilobytes is imposed
for each message.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: WHY CAN'T I SEND ATTACHMENTS? HOW COME MY MESSAGES TO THE LIST
DON'T COME THROUGH WITH THE FONTS AND COLORS THAT I USED?

A: There are a number of reasons for these restrictions:

Internet email was designed for the efficient exchange of relatively
short messages using plain text.  Formatted email uses HTML encoding
(which was designed for web sites) to make possible changes in text size,
style, color, fonts, etc. For this to work, both the sender and receiver
must be HTML compatible.

The problem is that HTML encoding can dramatically increase the size
of a message and can carry potentially malicious scripts, yet it
rarely adds any real substance to message content.  Particularly when 
sending messages in bulk, this bloat eats into server and bandwidth
resources.  However, since so many email programs send HTML by default
and not everyone knows how to selectively disable that "feature," such
messages are accepted by the list but are converted to plain text
before being distributed.

Attachments have the potential for being very large and may well carry
viruses or spyware. If attachments were accepted, a single subscriber
with an infected computer could spred their contagion to every list member
who uses a Windows-based computer. Depending on the type of attachment
the entire message will be rejected or the attachment will be deleted.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: I'M HAVING TROUBLE RECEIVING LIST MAIL AT MY AOL (OR HOTMAIL,
YAHOO, ETC.) ADDRESS. EVERYONE ELSE CAN MAIL TO ME, WHAT'S GOING ON?

A: The anti-spam measures that have been taken by many major ISPs and email
services also place roadblocks in the way of legitimate mailing lists,
which (like spam) are technically bulk mail. The reason for these measures
is that spam has become such a pervasive problem, accounting for at least
75% of email traffic on the Internet, that it threatens the usefulness
of email for many people.

All we can suggest is that if your service provider rejects list mail
that you try another service, possibly using a free web-based email account
at services like www.fastmail.fm, www.mail.com, www.gmail.com, etc., and
see if messages are accepted there. (Some of these services allow you
to forward incoming messages to another address. We have done some limited
testing with gmail.com, which has the forwarding feature, and it appears
to accept TEST list mail.)

More details on this problem may be found here:

  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.042.htp

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: SINCE SPAM IS SUCH A PROBLEM, WHAT WILL STOP SPAMMERS FROM SENDING
THEIR JUNK MAIL TO THE LIST? WILL THEY BE ABLE TO GET MY EMAIL ADDRESS?

A: The TEST mailing list does not accept messages from non-subscribers,
and subscriptions are granted by invitation only. This precludes spammers
from sending junk mail to the list should they manage to obtain its
mailing address. The addresses of list members is available only
to the system administrator.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: ARE THERE ARCHIVES KEPT OF TEST MAILING LIST MESSAGES?

A: No, we do not maintain archives of mailing list traffic.  Subscribers
are of course are free to save messages of interest using their own
email system.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: CAN I GET LIST MESSAGES GROUPED TOGETHER INSTEAD OF INDIVIDUALLY?
HOW DO I CHANGE MY EMAIL ADDRESS? CAN I TEMPORARILY STOP DELIVERY WHEN
I GO ON VACATION? HOW DO I UNSUBSCRIBE?

A: All of these, and more, are configured in your personal options.

Your welcome message includes short instructions on how to set your
personal options for list mail. There are two ways to interact with the
list software, a web interface (using your web browser), and an email
interface (comands sent to a special address).  Here we will cover
the web interface since most users will probably be most comfortable
with it.

The following is fairly lengthy and is broken up into subsections:

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    HOW DO I ACCESS MY ACCOUNT SETTINGS?

    The following information in your welcome message is the key to
    accessing and modifying your account settings:

    1. The web address for accessing your account.
    2. The password needed for you to log into your account.
       (This is provided in your welcome message.)

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    I'M STILL CONFUSED. WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO WITH ALL THIS?

    1. The web page address for changing your account options will
    look something like the following:

      http://www.test.test/cgi-bin/mailman/options/test/name%40domain.com

    The part that reads "name%40domain.com" is based on your email
    address.  For example, if you signed up with an email address of
    "foo at bar.com," you would point your web browser to:

      http://www.test.test/cgi-bin/mailman/options/test/foo%40bar.com

    Since this address may be difficult to remember, you will probably
    want to bookmark it in your browser for future use.

    2. On the login page you will see a place near the top to enter
    your personal password which was provided to you in your welcome
    message.  Enter the password and click on the "Log in" button below
    it to go to your account options.

    Near the bottom of the page there is a "Remind" button. If you
    have lost your password, click on this button and it will be
    emailed to you.

    In the middle of the page there is also an "Unsubscribe" button
    that can be used to remove your address from the list. This will
    mail to you a confirmation message with further instructions.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    OK, I'M IN THE "MEMBERSHIP CONFIGURATION" PAGE. NOW WHAT?

    That depends on what you want to do. There are a fair number of
    options that can be set. Not all are applicable to the TEST list.
    (Since we currently host a single mailing list, those options
    referring to "other mailing lists" are not used.)

    Here are some of the most common, from top of page to bottom:

    1. To change your email address, simply enter it (twice) in the
    areas indicated on the screen and click on the "Change my address
    and name" button. You will be sent a confirmation message to your
    new address with instructions on activating the change.

    2. To unsubscribe, click in the confirmation checkbox and click
    on the "Unsubscribe" button. THIS ACTION IS TAKEN IMMEDIATELY
    WITH NO OTHER CONFIRMATION!

    3. To change your password, enter it twice where indicated and
    click on the "Change My Password" button.

    For all of the following options, set them as desired then click
    on the "Submit My Changes" button near the bottom of the page:

    4. To stop mail delivery without unsubscribing, select "Disabled"
    for the "Mail delivery" option. (You can re-enable mail delivery
    at any time.)

    5. To set "Digest Mode" (batch multiple messages together instead
    of mailing individually), select "On" for this option. Most users
    will also want to turn the "MIME" option On.

    6. Normally you will receive a password reminder and the latest
    version of this FAQ on a monthly basis. To turn this off, select
    "No" for the "password reminder" option.

    When finished, click on the "Log out" button at the top-right
    part of the options page.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    WHAT IF I WANT TO TRY SETTING MY OPTIONS VIA EMAIL?

    Those wishing to try the email method should send an email to the
    address "test-request at test.test" containing only the word
    "help" in the body of the message. The subject line does not matter.
    You will be mailed back a message detailing the available commands.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: IS THE LIST SERVE ALWAYS UP AND RUNNING?

A: The server running the TEST mailing list normally runs 24/7. It may
on occasion be necessary to take the server offline to do updates or
perform other maintenance and repairs. It is also possible that the
server's Internet connection may experience problems from time to time.

List members will be informed prior to the server being taken offline
whenever possible.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: WHAT HAPPENS IF THE SERVER IS DOWN OR THERE ARE OTHER PROBLEMS?

A: If the server or its Internet connection are down you will not be
able to connect to the web-based interface for changing your subscription
options.

If you send email messages to the list while it is down, your service
provider's mail system will retry for a period of time until either the
message is delivered or a preset time limit expires. (This time limit and
any notification messages can vary between service providers. Typically
message delivery is retried every 4 hours for a period of four days.)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: WHAT HAPPENS IF THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH MY OWN EMAIL ACCOUNT?

A: The server tracks the number of "bounces" (delivery failures)
received for each subscriber's address. The list software has a formula
that it uses to track bounces, when the maximum is exceeded that
member's subscription is disabled.

This has the effect that if your email service is experiencing
temporary problems your subscription remains in effect. An extended
problem (such as changing email addresses and not updating your
your personal options) will ultimately result in your subscription
being cancelled.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: WHAT SOFTWARE IS USED TO RUN THE TEST MAILING LIST?

A: The operating system is Ubuntu Linux. The application software that
actually runs the list is GNU Mailman. Information on these may be found at:

   http://www.ubuntu.com
   http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: I STILL HAVE SOME QUESTIONS. WHERE CAN I FIND MORE INFORMATION ON
USING THE MAILING LIST?

A: There is a user manual for Mailman available here:

  http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member.pdf

(Features that would otherwise permit the general public to subscribe
have been disabled on the TEST list server.)

You can also contact the list administrator by sending email to:

  test-owner at test.test

===========================================================================

Your address "%(email)s" has been invited to join the %(listname)s
mailing list at %(hostname)s by the %(listname)s mailing list owner.
You may accept the invitation by simply replying to this message,
keeping the Subject: header intact.

You can also visit this web page:

    %(confirmurl)s

Or you should include the following line -- and only the following
line -- in a message to %(requestaddr)s:

    confirm %(cookie)s

Note that simply sending a `reply' to this message should work from
most mail readers.

If you want to decline this invitation, please simply disregard this
message.  If you have any questions, please send them to
%(listowner)s.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - CUT HERE - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -




=
Fleet Software & Solutions
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http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=627a284c857756a91b84e5fe59f5ce11


From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Sat May 26 05:14:39 2007
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 22:14:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List operates OK,
 but not listed in admin or info?
In-Reply-To: <200705251537.37946.joshua@eeinternet.com>
Message-ID: <C27D104F.3FA9B%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 5/25/07 6:37 PM, Joshua J. Kugler at joshua at eeinternet.com wrote:

> On Friday 25 May 2007 15:29, you wrote:
>> On May 25, 2007, at 6:22 PM, Joshua J. Kugler wrote:
>>> Any ideas?
>> 
>> The most obvious possibility is if to ask if admin-->privacy options--
>> 
>>> "Advertise this list when people ask what lists are on this
>> 
>> machine? " is set to yes.
> 
> Sigh...that was it.  I guess what threw me off was the fact that it wasn't
> showing in admin either.  I didn't think that setting affected admin.

It has to. Admin isn't private so a list that appeared on admin isn't
private.

-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/



From jetta.view at gmx.de  Sat May 26 20:21:32 2007
From: jetta.view at gmx.de (jetta.view at gmx.de)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 20:21:32 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how can i simulate mailman pages
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00705171441r68a08fd4y7d1b49bb7d0fafdc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070526182136.2EC151E4008@bag.python.org>

'The problem is probably that the /admin/* pages require the list or site
admin password to be in a cookie, and normal users aren't going to have
that.'

is it possible to set a cookie by hand. the page which set this
is protected with a htaccess password.

i checked the cookie of my site. the content was:
2802000000694879584673280000003834636466663363353463323833613439306638343163
3436613030393334653563343233626562 

is this the mailman-admin-password ?

how is it encrypted?

thanks for your help

emmi

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Patrick Bogen [mailto:pdbogen at gmail.com] 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 17. Mai 2007 23:41
An: jetta.view at gmx.de
Cc: Mailman-Users at python.org
Betreff: Re: [Mailman-Users] how can i simulate mailman pages

On 5/17/07, jetta.view at gmx.de <jetta.view at gmx.de> wrote:
> hi,
> how can i simulate mailman pages?
> i want to build my own page to add or remove members without any 
> admin-confirmation.


Why can't you just set subscribe_policy to 'Confirm' and then duplicate the
form fields on the general page for the list?

> i tested it, but it does not work and i don't know why.



--
- Patrick Bogen


From ljacobs at shambhala.com  Sat May 26 22:36:33 2007
From: ljacobs at shambhala.com (Leonard Jacobs)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 16:36:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Low level smtp error: Server not connected
Message-ID: <7c5b3fd245874985b5fa1fa9049a7b2c@shambhala.com>

I am trying to run Mailman 2.1.9 on a CentOS 4 server with postfix 2.4.1.  I had Mailman 2.1.5 running on a slower system and wanted to offload some apps to this newer server but am having problems. check_perms has no errors. Creating lists works fine and when postings are submitted the messages are delivered to the list admins re posting verifications.

But only a few of the messages are getting delivered. logs/smtp-failure shows many of this type of error:
"delivery to someone at gmail.com failed with code -1: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')" I am also seeing many " Low level smtp error: Server not connected, msgid" errors. I did try all the suggested fixes in the FAQ including adding the line to get error output in the logs/error file. And this file is showing successful delivery, such as 
"May 26 16:33:44 2007 qrunner(20744): reply:   '250 2.1.5 Ok\r\n'
May 26 16:33:44 2007 qrunner(20744): reply: retcode (250); Msg: 2.1.5 Ok
May 26 16:33:44 2007 qrunner(20744): send:   'rcpt TO:<somebody at surewest.net>\r\n"" 
but the majority of the messages are simply stuck in the qfiles/out and qfile/rety directory.

I am running python 2.5.1 so that I could get the error logging to work but this problem happened with python 2.3.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated since my mailing list no longer works at all.

Thanks.



From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun May 27 13:30:19 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 20:30:19 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Low level smtp error: Server not connected
In-Reply-To: <7c5b3fd245874985b5fa1fa9049a7b2c@shambhala.com>
References: <7c5b3fd245874985b5fa1fa9049a7b2c@shambhala.com>
Message-ID: <871wh24i7o.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Leonard Jacobs writes:

 > "delivery to someone at gmail.com failed with code -1: (104,
 > 'Connection reset by peer')" I am also seeing many " Low level smtp
 > error: Server not connected, msgid" errors.

This seems likely to be either a Postfix problem, or maybe you've
caught a social disease (ie, a bunch of big ISPs have decided you're a
spammer).  Either way, the first place to investigate is the Postfix
logs.


From ljacobs at shambhala.com  Mon May 28 16:06:37 2007
From: ljacobs at shambhala.com (Leonard Jacobs)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 10:06:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Low level smtp error: Server not Connected
Message-ID: <465AE1ED.5020508@shambhala.com>



> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1.  Low level smtp error: Server not connected (Stephen J. Turnbull)
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject:
> [Mailman-Users] Low level smtp error: Server not connected
> From:
> "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org>
> Date:
> Sun, 27 May 2007 20:30:19 +0900
> To:
> ljacobs at shambhala.com
>
> To:
> ljacobs at shambhala.com
> CC:
> mailman-users at python.org
>
> Precedence:
> list
> MIME-Version:
> 1.0
> References:
> <7c5b3fd245874985b5fa1fa9049a7b2c at shambhala.com>
> In-Reply-To:
> <7c5b3fd245874985b5fa1fa9049a7b2c at shambhala.com>
> Message-ID:
> <871wh24i7o.fsf at uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
> Content-Type:
> text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Message:
> 1
>
>
> Leonard Jacobs writes:
>
>  > "delivery to someone at gmail.com failed with code -1: (104,
>  > 'Connection reset by peer')" I am also seeing many " Low level smtp
>  > error: Server not connected, msgid" errors.
>
> This seems likely to be either a Postfix problem, or maybe you've
> caught a social disease (ie, a bunch of big ISPs have decided you're a
> spammer).  Either way, the first place to investigate is the Postfix
> logs.
>
>   
Wish it were so simple. There are no obvious errors in the postfix 
maillog files. In fact postfix is receiving and sending messages fine, 
just no mailman messages are getting delivered except for the response 
to the list creator that the list was created and notifications to the 
list posters that there is a message waiting to be reviewed. Once the 
moderated poster's message is released from the queue, it triggers the 
"server not connected" errors and never actually delivers any messages.

Strange behavior and I would appreciate any other insights and suggestions.
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude EVA]



From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue May 29 00:57:41 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 17:57:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Low level smtp error: Server not Connected
In-Reply-To: <465AE1ED.5020508@shambhala.com>
References: <465AE1ED.5020508@shambhala.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c2810d24bbae@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/28/07, Leonard Jacobs wrote:

>  Wish it were so simple. There are no obvious errors in the postfix
>  maillog files. In fact postfix is receiving and sending messages fine,
>  just no mailman messages are getting delivered except for the response
>  to the list creator that the list was created and notifications to the
>  list posters that there is a message waiting to be reviewed. Once the
>  moderated poster's message is released from the queue, it triggers the
>  "server not connected" errors and never actually delivers any messages.

Searching through the archives of the mailman-users list (in 
accordance with FAQ 1.18) turns up a number of hits.  I did 
<http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Server+not+connected%22+inurl:mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/>, 
but there are other searches that could also have been done.

In the article at 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-August/046366.html>, 
the problem was an inappropriate setting for SMTPPORT that needed to 
be fixed in the mm_cfg.py file.

Then there's the article at 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-September/046418.html>, 
where Mark Sapiro points out essentially the same search, and other 
issues that other people needed to resolve, in particular "setting 
SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION to 1 and/or setting SMTP_MAX_RCPTS 
to some small number."

Then there's the article at 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-July/038047.html>, 
and more than sixty others.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From ljacobs at shambhala.com  Tue May 29 12:21:16 2007
From: ljacobs at shambhala.com (Leonard Jacobs)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 06:21:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Low level smtp error: Server not connected
In-Reply-To: <mailman.36.1180432814.21192.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.36.1180432814.21192.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <465BFE9C.5080605@shambhala.com>

Thanks for your suggestion to read the FAQ and the associated list 
postings. I actually found those same postings and tried every 
suggestion in them that was relevant. Unfortunately nothing worked to 
resolve this annoying problem. There may be a setting that is incorrect 
and there may be something posted that explains this problem and 
provides a solution but so far I have not located anything that fixes it 
for me.

It is strange that a pretty vanilla installation, CentOS and Postfix 
with the latest Mailman version of 2.1.9 is so hard to configure and 
use. And this after using it on a CentOS 3 box but with frequent delays 
in sending and unusal errors. So moving the list was necessary but made 
the list totally unusable. I have heard from a few others with similar 
problems and no solution, so I know I am not the only user with these 
issues.

Any further suggestions would be appreciated.



mailman-users-request at python.org wrote:
> Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to
> 	mailman-users at python.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	mailman-users-request at python.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	mailman-users-owner at python.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Users digest..."
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Low level smtp error: Server not Connected (Leonard Jacobs)
>    2. Re: Low level smtp error: Server not Connected (Brad Knowles)
>   
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject:
> Re: [Mailman-Users] Low level smtp error: Server not Connected
> From:
> Leonard Jacobs <ljacobs at shambhala.com>
> Date:
> Mon, 28 May 2007 10:06:37 -0400
> To:
> mailman-users at python.org
>
> To:
> mailman-users at python.org
>
> Content-Transfer-Encoding:
> 7bit
> Precedence:
> list
> MIME-Version:
> 1.0
> Message-ID:
> <465AE1ED.5020508 at shambhala.com>
> Content-Type:
> text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> Message:
> 1
>
>
>
>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1.  Low level smtp error: Server not connected (Stephen J. Turnbull)
>>  
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Subject:
>> [Mailman-Users] Low level smtp error: Server not connected
>> From:
>> "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org>
>> Date:
>> Sun, 27 May 2007 20:30:19 +0900
>> To:
>> ljacobs at shambhala.com
>>
>> To:
>> ljacobs at shambhala.com
>> CC:
>> mailman-users at python.org
>>
>> Precedence:
>> list
>> MIME-Version:
>> 1.0
>> References:
>> <7c5b3fd245874985b5fa1fa9049a7b2c at shambhala.com>
>> In-Reply-To:
>> <7c5b3fd245874985b5fa1fa9049a7b2c at shambhala.com>
>> Message-ID:
>> <871wh24i7o.fsf at uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
>> Content-Type:
>> text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> Message:
>> 1
>>
>>
>> Leonard Jacobs writes:
>>
>>  > "delivery to someone at gmail.com failed with code -1: (104,
>>  > 'Connection reset by peer')" I am also seeing many " Low level smtp
>>  > error: Server not connected, msgid" errors.
>>
>> This seems likely to be either a Postfix problem, or maybe you've
>> caught a social disease (ie, a bunch of big ISPs have decided you're a
>> spammer).  Either way, the first place to investigate is the Postfix
>> logs.
>>
>>   
> Wish it were so simple. There are no obvious errors in the postfix 
> maillog files. In fact postfix is receiving and sending messages fine, 
> just no mailman messages are getting delivered except for the response 
> to the list creator that the list was created and notifications to the 
> list posters that there is a message waiting to be reviewed. Once the 
> moderated poster's message is released from the queue, it triggers the 
> "server not connected" errors and never actually delivers any messages.
>
> Strange behavior and I would appreciate any other insights and 
> suggestions.
> ---
> [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude EVA]
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject:
> Re: [Mailman-Users] Low level smtp error: Server not Connected
> From:
> Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
> Date:
> Mon, 28 May 2007 17:57:41 -0500
> To:
> Leonard Jacobs <ljacobs at shambhala.com>, mailman-users at python.org
>
> To:
> Leonard Jacobs <ljacobs at shambhala.com>, mailman-users at python.org
>
> Precedence:
> list
> MIME-Version:
> 1.0
> References:
> <465AE1ED.5020508 at shambhala.com>
> In-Reply-To:
> <465AE1ED.5020508 at shambhala.com>
> Message-ID:
> <p06240800c2810d24bbae@[192.168.1.66]>
> Content-Type:
> text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
> Message:
> 2
>
>
> On 5/28/07, Leonard Jacobs wrote:
>
>>  Wish it were so simple. There are no obvious errors in the postfix
>>  maillog files. In fact postfix is receiving and sending messages fine,
>>  just no mailman messages are getting delivered except for the response
>>  to the list creator that the list was created and notifications to the
>>  list posters that there is a message waiting to be reviewed. Once the
>>  moderated poster's message is released from the queue, it triggers the
>>  "server not connected" errors and never actually delivers any messages.
>
> Searching through the archives of the mailman-users list (in 
> accordance with FAQ 1.18) turns up a number of hits.  I did 
> <http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Server+not+connected%22+inurl:mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/>, 
> but there are other searches that could also have been done.
>
> In the article at 
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-August/046366.html>, 
> the problem was an inappropriate setting for SMTPPORT that needed to 
> be fixed in the mm_cfg.py file.
>
> Then there's the article at 
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-September/046418.html>, 
> where Mark Sapiro points out essentially the same search, and other 
> issues that other people needed to resolve, in particular "setting 
> SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION to 1 and/or setting SMTP_MAX_RCPTS to 
> some small number."
>
> Then there's the article at 
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-July/038047.html>, 
> and more than sixty others.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude EVA]



From barry at python.org  Tue May 29 16:25:22 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 10:25:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Low level smtp error: Server not connected
In-Reply-To: <465BFE9C.5080605@shambhala.com>
References: <mailman.36.1180432814.21192.mailman-users@python.org>
	<465BFE9C.5080605@shambhala.com>
Message-ID: <90CBC37D-13F4-4306-8970-03E9CB88DA53@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On May 29, 2007, at 6:21 AM, Leonard Jacobs wrote:

> Thanks for your suggestion to read the FAQ and the associated list
> postings. I actually found those same postings and tried every
> suggestion in them that was relevant. Unfortunately nothing worked to
> resolve this annoying problem. There may be a setting that is  
> incorrect
> and there may be something posted that explains this problem and
> provides a solution but so far I have not located anything that  
> fixes it
> for me.
>
> It is strange that a pretty vanilla installation, CentOS and Postfix
> with the latest Mailman version of 2.1.9 is so hard to configure and
> use. And this after using it on a CentOS 3 box but with frequent  
> delays
> in sending and unusal errors. So moving the list was necessary but  
> made
> the list totally unusable. I have heard from a few others with similar
> problems and no solution, so I know I am not the only user with these
> issues.
>
> Any further suggestions would be appreciated.

I don't have any idea what's going on, but here are some mostly  
useless comments.

I'm personally still on Postfix 2.3.6, and you mentioned that you're  
on Postfix 2.4.1.  I wonder if there isn't some new feature, anti- 
spam defense, or other setting that is tripping up Mailman.  It's  
also possible that Postfix 2.4.1 has some bug that's causing it to  
reset the connection.  I don't have time to slog through the Postfix  
change logs, but I suggest you take a look to see if there's anything  
relevant.

You might also try the Postfix 2.4.2 release candidate, and/or  
grabbing Postfix 2.3.9 to see if that improves things.  IME, Postfix  
is pretty easy to build and install from source.

If I were debugging this, my next step would probably be to write  
some sample Python applications that stress tested SMTP connections  
from a Python program.  Mailman uses Python's standard smtplib  
module, so that's where I'd start.  See if you can reproduce the  
problem outside of Mailman.

I agree with previous posters that this is almost certainly a problem  
with your Postfix installation.  Mailman + Postfix has been a long- 
term very stable combination, although as I said, it's possible  
there's something in Postfix 2.4 that's tripping us up now.

Does anybody else use Postfix 2.4?

- -Barry

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From dennis at top-dog-home.com  Tue May 29 16:06:10 2007
From: dennis at top-dog-home.com (Dennis Morgan)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 09:06:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a question about unadvertised lists and spam
Message-ID: <1180447571.5640.16.camel@localhost>

We have a site:
http://eaachat.org/

with several mailing lists. We have some lists advertised on a
non-default public list info page that we "branded" (thank you Mark for
your help!) here:
http://eaachat.org/maillist.html

and shows only the publicly accessible pages.

These pages have a mailto: owner at eaachat.org which is forwarded to
list at eaachat.org. We all have various filters set in our MUA to cope
with this. We check the moderator pages of the public lists frequently
for legitimate help requests, in other words the admins are the spam
filters for the domain.

The default mailman list info page is here:
http://lists.eaachat.org/mailman/listinfo

All lists are closed to non member posts and the subscribe policy is
confirm and approve.

My question is - are spamers able to pick up lists from the default (but
not easily accessible) default mailman listinfo page and start
bombarding us with spam on all lists? Or should I set the "Advertise
this list" option to "no" for the lists on the default listinfo page?

Thank you,

Dennis


From srb at umich.edu  Tue May 29 17:14:37 2007
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 11:14:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Low level smtp error: Server not connected
In-Reply-To: <90CBC37D-13F4-4306-8970-03E9CB88DA53@python.org>
References: <mailman.36.1180432814.21192.mailman-users@python.org>
	<465BFE9C.5080605@shambhala.com>
	<90CBC37D-13F4-4306-8970-03E9CB88DA53@python.org>
Message-ID: <0FE721DD1931C04DE61811B9@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>

--On May 29, 2007 10:25:22 AM -0400 Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:

> Does anybody else use Postfix 2.4?

To which I reply:

For what it's worth, my (extremely small, low-traffic) home Mailman install 
(2.1.9) uses Postfix 2.4.1 with no problems.

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue May 29 18:19:26 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 11:19:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Low level smtp error: Server not connected
In-Reply-To: <465BFE9C.5080605@shambhala.com>
References: <mailman.36.1180432814.21192.mailman-users@python.org>
	<465BFE9C.5080605@shambhala.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c28202aa4790@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/29/07, Leonard Jacobs wrote:

>  It is strange that a pretty vanilla installation, CentOS and Postfix
>  with the latest Mailman version of 2.1.9 is so hard to configure and
>  use.

Can you share with us the relevant portions of your mm_cfg.py file, 
and your postfix/main.cf file?

Also, you did stop and restart Mailman after making these changes, 
right?  Have you tried stopping and restarting it again?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue May 29 18:24:12 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 11:24:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Low level smtp error: Server not connected
In-Reply-To: <90CBC37D-13F4-4306-8970-03E9CB88DA53@python.org>
References: <mailman.36.1180432814.21192.mailman-users@python.org>
	<465BFE9C.5080605@shambhala.com>
	<90CBC37D-13F4-4306-8970-03E9CB88DA53@python.org>
Message-ID: <p06240803c2820314608c@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/29/07, Barry Warsaw wrote:

>  Does anybody else use Postfix 2.4?

Actually, I'm pretty sure we are currently using it on the NTP Public 
Services Project pages at ntp.isc.org, which is the project I had 
gotten involved in years ago, prior to getting involved in Mailman. 
I got on this mailing list in order to help me figure out if it would 
be a good idea to switch from Majordomo to Mailman, and I haven't 
looked back since.

Currently, these are the two primary open source projects where I 
spend most of my time.


If you want to give it a test, I could install the latest postfix 2.5 
experimental or non-production patch releases on the python.org mail 
servers, so that we can give the newer code a try.  ;)


Seriously, I am quite convinced that the problem here is a 
mis-configuration between Mailman and postfix, and that neither 
program is necessarily "at fault".

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From bishop at disinfo.net  Tue May 29 19:39:38 2007
From: bishop at disinfo.net (bishop at disinfo.net)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 10:39:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Point of Clarification for announcement lists
Message-ID: <1180460378.465c655ae05b4@secure.terabolic.com>

Hi all,

I'm a serious newbie to Mailmain, but I've worked through most of my
installation and basic configuration issues to get it up an running. I do need
some clarification regarding announcement lists. The instructions tell me to
create a new directory:

  "In Mailman 2.1.x you can customize the welcome message.  Create
  a directory lists/<yourlist>/en (assuming English :) and copy
  templates/subscribeack.txt to this directory.  Then edit this file 
  for your specific wording.  Mailman will use this specialized 
  template for the English welcome messages."

I'm assuming that this directory is in the root of the /usr/lib/Mailman/
directory. Is this correct? I've created the following directory structure:
/usr/lib/mailman/Lists/XXXX-high-school-announcements/en and copied over the
subscribeack.txt file. I've edited the subscribeack.ext file to reflect what I
want the welcome message to say, but it doesn't seem to be working. I think I
need to configure Mailman to use the new template, but I couldn't find any such
instructions. 

Am I missing something?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
David

From zevstub at gmail.com  Tue May 29 20:44:26 2007
From: zevstub at gmail.com (Zev Stub)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 21:44:26 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Linked subjects in digest (and more)
Message-ID: <a197848a0705291144xaaa0005u66c5fb1dc6086651@mail.gmail.com>

Hi. A few questions:

1. Is there any way to set Mailman so that the Digest provides active links
from the Digest toc to the respective messages contained within that digest?
That would be a big help for my users as I try to wean them off of Yahoo
Groups.

2. For moderating pending requests, in the details=all page, I'd like to
hide the message headers field so that it is a bit easier on my moderators.
Where can i do that?

3. Any way for moderators to be able to edit messages, both the subject and
message bodies?

Thanks.
Zev

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue May 29 21:46:37 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 14:46:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Point of Clarification for announcement lists
In-Reply-To: <1180460378.465c655ae05b4@secure.terabolic.com>
References: <1180460378.465c655ae05b4@secure.terabolic.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c282337cb8ef@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/29/07, bishop at disinfo.net wrote:

>                        I've edited the subscribeack.ext file to reflect what I
>  want the welcome message to say, but it doesn't seem to be working. I think I
>  need to configure Mailman to use the new template, but I couldn't find any
>  such instructions.

Did you stop and restart Mailman?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue May 29 21:50:59 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 14:50:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Linked subjects in digest (and more)
In-Reply-To: <a197848a0705291144xaaa0005u66c5fb1dc6086651@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a197848a0705291144xaaa0005u66c5fb1dc6086651@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c28233bcc7dc@[192.168.1.66]>

On 5/29/07, Zev Stub wrote:

>  1. Is there any way to set Mailman so that the Digest provides active links
>  from the Digest toc to the respective messages contained within that digest?

You mean for HTML format digests?  What would you do for text format digests?

So far as I know, there is no current way for Mailman to know, in 
advance, of what the URL to a given message would be, when creating 
the digest.  To make that sort of thing happen will require some 
architectural changes within Mailman, and that's not going to happen 
any time soon.

>  That would be a big help for my users as I try to wean them off of Yahoo
>  Groups.

Search the FAQ Wizard for "yahoo".

>  2. For moderating pending requests, in the details=all page, I'd like to
>  hide the message headers field so that it is a bit easier on my moderators.
>  Where can i do that?

Without modifying the source code to Mailman, I don't think that 
there is any way to do this.

>  3. Any way for moderators to be able to edit messages, both the subject and
>  message bodies?

Search the FAQ wizard for "edit held messages".

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From joshua at eeinternet.com  Tue May 29 22:23:38 2007
From: joshua at eeinternet.com (Joshua J. Kugler)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 12:23:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List operates OK,
	but not listed in admin or info?
In-Reply-To: <C27D104F.3FA9B%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
References: <C27D104F.3FA9B%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <200705291223.38574.joshua@eeinternet.com>

On Friday 25 May 2007 19:14, Larry Stone wrote:
> On 5/25/07 6:37 PM, Joshua J. Kugler at joshua at eeinternet.com wrote:
> > On Friday 25 May 2007 15:29, you wrote:
> >> On May 25, 2007, at 6:22 PM, Joshua J. Kugler wrote:
> >>> Any ideas?
> >>
> >> The most obvious possibility is if to ask if admin-->privacy options--
> >>
> >>> "Advertise this list when people ask what lists are on this
> >>
> >> machine? " is set to yes.
> >
> > Sigh...that was it.  I guess what threw me off was the fact that it
> > wasn't showing in admin either.  I didn't think that setting affected
> > admin.
>
> It has to. Admin isn't private so a list that appeared on admin isn't
> private.

Ah, yes.  Thanks.

j

-- 
Joshua Kugler                           
Lead System Admin -- Senior Programmer
http://www.eeinternet.com
PGP Key: http://pgp.mit.edu/  ID 0xDB26D7CE
PO Box 80086 -- Fairbanks, AK 99708 -- Ph: 907-456-5581 Fax: 907-456-3111

From curtis at backupcentral.com  Tue May 29 23:30:52 2007
From: curtis at backupcentral.com (W. Curtis Preston)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 14:30:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with joomla/mambo
Message-ID: <000001c7a238$a353b9b0$73017d0a@glasshousetech.com>

I finally saw this and would love to respond to the question.  The component
is indeed up and functioning on my site, and the code is available for
anyone who wants to hack away.  You can read all about it here:
 
http://www.backupcentral.com/content/view/108/47/
 
(I also updated the MailMan FAQ Wizard entry about this idea.)
 
Scott Harris did this as a favor to me, so I really own the code now and
Scott's off the project now that it's up and running.  If there's anyone who
would like to help further the work, especially in terms of making it more
Joomla! friendly, then I'd love to have your help now that it's started.
 
At 10:55 AM -0700 4/23/07, David Southwell wrote:
 
>  There was a interesting aside about some work done by Scot Harris but no
link
>  to  him e or to the software mentioned or even an indication that the
results
>  of his work are available in the public domain.
 
What I put in the FAQ is still the last word I heard from Curtis, and 
my understanding is that he helped fund an important step forward in 
the area of integrating Joomla! and Mailman.  I have not heard of any 
new information on this front.
 
If you have more recent information in this area, or know of someone 
who does, please feel free to update the FAQ and let us know.
 
If you've got better contact with Curtis than I do, and you can drag 
out of him more detail than I've been able to get so far, then please 
do go ahead and update the FAQ entry.
 
>                                                  The implication of the
FAQ
>  was a need to look elsewhere for a generic solution for providing a
module
>  giving a full integration for Joomla and mailman. What the FAQ did do was
to
>  reinforce what I knew.. that such integration was possible.. but took me
no
>  further towards actually doing it.
 
My understanding is that this is still a pretty raw area.  Mailman 
itself does not provide any hooks to assist with this process, so 
there's a limit to how much we can help.  If there are any tools out 
there to help integrate CMSes with Mailman, the unfortunate fact is 
that the authors of those tools have not coordinated well with the 
Mailman project, and they have not let us know about the work they've 
done.
 
>  Unfortunately, as in many other places, the FAQ, whilst providing many
>  apparently hopeful mentions, which can be very useful in some instances,
it
>  seems that there have not been enough informed contributions.
 
We've done the best we can based on what anecdotal information we can 
gather, but that's always going to be a hit-or-miss proposition.  If 
the authors of the tools don't coordinate with us, there's not much 
we can do about that.
 
>                                                                This means
the
>  work does not, in many places, have sufficient specific follow ups.
Perhaps
>  this is an indication that those of us who are new to mailman might
perhaps
>  pay more attention to turning the results of our learning experience into
>  well written contributions that  improve the quality of the  FAQ over
time.
 
That would certainly be a good step forward, yes.  However, it is a 
community-supported document, and if the community does not choose to 
put the effort into doing the work necessary to keep it up-to-date 
and filled with as much useful information as possible, then we will 
all suffer.
 
I've certainly done as much as I can to contribute to the FAQ Wizard, 
both in terms of generating content itself as well as providing 
editorial assistance to try to make things as easy to understand as I 
can.  But I'm only one person.  We need more people to do the same 
kind of thing, or the FAQ will die -- probably a slow death, but 
perhaps much faster than would otherwise be expected.
 
>  Do not get me wrong-- I have found the FAQ can be really useful at times,
but
>  the Mailman FAQ is a bit of a curates egg. Sometimes it seems like an FAQ
but
>  it often seems more like a personal blog rather than a well focused piece
of
>  work, written to a consistent, disciplined standard,  giving
comprehensive
>  step by step instructions  in response to very specific and well crafted
>  questions.
 
Yeah, well -- you get what you pay for.
 
Pay tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars per year, and maybe you 
can get a good professional author to spend their entire life to make 
the FAQ a world-class document, the equal to which cannot be found 
anywhere else in the world.
 
Otherwise, this is the kind of thing you can expect to get.
 
-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> >, Consultant &
Author
LinkedIn Profile: < <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

 

 

 


From pmatulis at sympatico.ca  Wed May 30 03:35:07 2007
From: pmatulis at sympatico.ca (Peter Matulis)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 21:35:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error email from mailman (what does it mean)?
Message-ID: <200705292135.07141.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>

I have mail for the mailman user redirected to my account.
Today I got this in my inbox.  What should I do to correct my setup?
Thanks for any help.



Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/lib/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 154, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/lib/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 140, in main
    compress(f)
  File "/usr/local/lib/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 81, in compress
    outfp = gzip.open(txtfile+'.gz', 'wb', 6)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/gzip.py", line 49, in open
    return GzipFile(filename, mode, compresslevel)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/gzip.py", line 95, in __init__
    fileobj = self.myfileobj = __builtin__.open(filename, mode or 'rb')
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/var/spool/mailman/archives/private/somelist/2006-April.txt.gz'



Peter

From msapiro at value.net  Wed May 30 04:19:22 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 19:19:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error email from mailman (what does it mean)?
In-Reply-To: <200705292135.07141.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <PC17602007052919192205004446fd4a@msapiro>

Peter Matulis wrote:

>I have mail for the mailman user redirected to my account.
>Today I got this in my inbox.  What should I do to correct my setup?
>Thanks for any help.
>
>
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/lib/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 154, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/local/lib/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 140, in main
>    compress(f)
>  File "/usr/local/lib/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 81, in compress
>    outfp = gzip.open(txtfile+'.gz', 'wb', 6)
>  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/gzip.py", line 49, in open
>    return GzipFile(filename, mode, compresslevel)
>  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/gzip.py", line 95, in __init__
>    fileobj = self.myfileobj = __builtin__.open(filename, mode or 'rb')
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/var/spool/mailman/archives/private/somelist/2006-April.txt.gz'


Make sure that the mailman user:group has at least search ('x')
permission on every directory in the path to
/var/spool/mailman/archives/private/somelist and at least 'rwx' on the
somelist directory itself and at least 'rw' on the file if it exists.

Those would be the minimum necessary permissions, but bin/check_perms
will check your installation and will want more than that, namely
'rws' for the mailman group on the mailman, archives, private and
somelist directories.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed May 30 06:27:17 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 21:27:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What happens to expired invitations?
In-Reply-To: <20070525031314.AE84B1CE303@ws1-6.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070529212717001565be0de0@msapiro>

Carter Braxton wrote:

>How are expired invitations handled? Are they actually deleted from the pending database, or are they just marked as expired? If the latter is there any way to reactivate them?


When any pending item is added to the pending database
(lists/<listname>/pending.pck), the expiration time of that item is
recorded in the 'evictions' dictionary which is an attribute of the
pending database. Each time the pending database is updated, all
expired items are removed.


>I stupidly managed to send out some invites that wound up with an expiration of zero days -- didn't realize that when adding PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE to mm_cfg.py that this variable needs an arg of "days(10)" rather than just "10" to set a 10 day expiration time. Now people are being turned down trying to confirm invitations that have immediately expired. (D'oh!)
>
>(I expect it will be necessary to send replacement invitations now that the PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE variable is properly set, but thought I'd check first...)


I'm afraid so. If by chance, the database has not been updated since
the invitations were sent, it is theoretically possible to change the
expiration time of those invitation cookies remaining in the database
to a time in the future, but you'd have to manipulate the database
pickle at a very low level, since if you tried to do it using
Pending.Pending class methods, the remaining expired cookies would be
evicted as soon as you changed anything.

In any case, it would be easier to apologize and resend the invitations.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tmz at pobox.com  Wed May 30 05:54:35 2007
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 23:54:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Low level smtp error: Server not connected
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c28202aa4790@[192.168.1.66]>
References: <mailman.36.1180432814.21192.mailman-users@python.org>
	<465BFE9C.5080605@shambhala.com>
	<p06240802c28202aa4790@[192.168.1.66]>
Message-ID: <20070530035435.GJ6952@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> On 5/29/07, Leonard Jacobs wrote:
> 
>>  It is strange that a pretty vanilla installation, CentOS and
>>  Postfix with the latest Mailman version of 2.1.9 is so hard to
>>  configure and use.
> 
> Can you share with us the relevant portions of your mm_cfg.py file,
> and your postfix/main.cf file?
> 
> Also, you did stop and restart Mailman after making these changes,
> right?  Have you tried stopping and restarting it again?

Just a guess, but have you looked for AVC denials or other messages if
you have SELinux enabled Leonard?

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to Hell in such a way
that you actually look forward to the trip.
    -- Anonymous

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From msapiro at value.net  Wed May 30 07:13:31 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 22:13:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listing Subscriptions with bounce_score>0
In-Reply-To: <200705251508.l4PF8TXi024014@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC176020070529221331057865be1021@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:
>
>I want to know about all bounces so that I can have the HR database
>updated, if necessary.  What I want to do is run a cron job daily that
>will list all of the subscriptions in all of the lists where
>bounce_score>0.  I started cloning list_members, but I decided that
>before I go too far I should ask this list (1) if anyone has done this
>and can share the code, and (2) if this is the proper way to proceed.


See <http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/get_bounce_info.py>
(mirrored at
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/get_bounce_info.py>).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cbraxton at iname.com  Wed May 30 13:33:48 2007
From: cbraxton at iname.com (Carter Braxton)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 06:33:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What happens to expired invitations?
Message-ID: <20070530113348.DF53B102EC@ws1-3.us4.outblaze.com>

"Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> In any case, it would be easier to apologize and resend the invitations.

Thanks, that has been done.

Is there a way to list the current pending invitations in the database? Since to my knowledge these are the only pending items (there is no moderation), I came up with:

  grep @ pending.pck | cut -d \' -f 2 >pending-invites.txt

...to get a list of addresses for which invitations are pending. This is obviously just an ugly hack, is there a supported way to list what's in the pending database?

=
Orlando Vacation Offer
Buy a Universal Orlando Vacation, Get 7 days of Unlimited Admission.
http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=290a3416facf4eb06e7dd03e1ba89882


From msapiro at value.net  Wed May 30 16:37:55 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 07:37:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What happens to expired invitations?
In-Reply-To: <20070530113348.DF53B102EC@ws1-3.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070530073755045336cc3c9c@msapiro>

Carter Braxton wrote:
>... is there a supported way to list what's in the pending database?


Not 'officially supported', but see
<http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/list_pending> (mirrored at
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/list_pending>).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From japruim at raoset.com  Wed May 30 16:43:57 2007
From: japruim at raoset.com (Jason Pruim)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 10:43:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Connection Refused
Message-ID: <716C5CAA-FD8C-4F36-AC03-9169D52F7B51@raoset.com>

Hi Everyone,

Been using mailman for awhile and have recently run into some trouble  
with it. I installed  ASSP which I think may be conflicting with the  
config of mailman. I think the fix I have to do is to add the  
SMTPPORT and SMTPHOST details in the mm_cfg.py file.

My question is... Exactly how do I edit that file? I tried to edit it  
with pico but that didn't work, all the stuff was scrambled.  Is  
there some trick that I don't know?

Mailman Version 2.1.5
Operating System: Macintosh OS X Server 10.4.9
MTA: Postfix Version 2.1 (I believe)
ASSP Verion 1.3.1

Let me know if you need any other info and thanks in advance!



From dan at music.memphis.edu  Wed May 30 17:22:04 2007
From: dan at music.memphis.edu (Dan Phillips)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 10:22:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Connection Refused
In-Reply-To: <716C5CAA-FD8C-4F36-AC03-9169D52F7B51@raoset.com>
References: <716C5CAA-FD8C-4F36-AC03-9169D52F7B51@raoset.com>
Message-ID: <8E43FA1A-24E0-4981-9C96-65EC89D2696D@music.memphis.edu>


On May 30, 2007, at 9:43 AM, Jason Pruim wrote:
>  I think the fix I have to do is to add the
> SMTPPORT and SMTPHOST details in the mm_cfg.py file.
>
> My question is... Exactly how do I edit that file? I tried to edit it
> with pico but that didn't work, all the stuff was scrambled.  Is
> there some trick that I don't know?
>
> Mailman Version 2.1.5
> Operating System: Macintosh OS X Server 10.4.9

There's no trick to it; pico should work just  fine to add those  
parameters to mm_cfg.py. In what way is it scrambled? I assume you're  
using the default OS X Server installation of Mailman? the only  
problems I've had with it is that some configuration settings and the  
mailman crontab sometimes get rewritten in OS updates, but I've never  
seen anything in mm_cfg.py changed.

Dan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed May 30 17:44:17 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 08:44:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Connection Refused
In-Reply-To: <716C5CAA-FD8C-4F36-AC03-9169D52F7B51@raoset.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705300844170968117814f9@msapiro>

Jason Pruim wrote:
>
>I think the fix I have to do is to add the  
>SMTPPORT and SMTPHOST details in the mm_cfg.py file.
>
>My question is... Exactly how do I edit that file? I tried to edit it  
>with pico but that didn't work, all the stuff was scrambled.  Is  
>there some trick that I don't know?


You should be able to use pico as long as you don't do any
'formatting', justification or filling commands.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From japruim at raoset.com  Wed May 30 18:26:36 2007
From: japruim at raoset.com (Jason Pruim)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 12:26:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Connection Refused
In-Reply-To: <716C5CAA-FD8C-4F36-AC03-9169D52F7B51@raoset.com>
References: <716C5CAA-FD8C-4F36-AC03-9169D52F7B51@raoset.com>
Message-ID: <287EF3B0-67CA-4DCE-9001-CF20D0B10294@raoset.com>

Thanks Mark & Dan!

I have no idea what caused the issue when I tried it the first time,  
but now all is well. I just can't use the interface that apple has  
setup for activating mailing lists. Need to do it from the command  
line which is okay. Already do that with another piece of software :)


On May 30, 2007, at 10:43 AM, Jason Pruim wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> Been using mailman for awhile and have recently run into some trouble
> with it. I installed  ASSP which I think may be conflicting with the
> config of mailman. I think the fix I have to do is to add the
> SMTPPORT and SMTPHOST details in the mm_cfg.py file.
>
> My question is... Exactly how do I edit that file? I tried to edit it
> with pico but that didn't work, all the stuff was scrambled.  Is
> there some trick that I don't know?
>
> Mailman Version 2.1.5
> Operating System: Macintosh OS X Server 10.4.9
> MTA: Postfix Version 2.1 (I believe)
> ASSP Verion 1.3.1
>
> Let me know if you need any other info and thanks in advance!
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users% 
> 40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
> japruim%40raoset.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


From cpreston at glasshouse.com  Thu May 31 10:18:15 2007
From: cpreston at glasshouse.com (Curtis Preston)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 04:18:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using wget to turn digest mode on/off
Message-ID: <4FBA0941CF3D9347889AA5FF23A809BE73F337@ghmail02.glasshousetech.com>

I need to be able to interact with MailMan via php without using the
command line, so I've been playing around with using URL commands.  I've
been able to do several things in MailMan using wget (and php's
file_get_contents subroutine), but there's one that's eluding me.

 

Here's what I CAN do:

 

List the mailing lists on the server:

http://<domain>/mailman/admin

 

List a user if they're in a given list.  It also shows whether they're
using digest mode.

http://<domain>/mailman/admin/<listname>/members?findmember=<user>@<doma
in>.com&adminpw=<pw>

 

Subscribe a user without telling anybody:

http://<domain>/mailman/admin/<listnam>/members/add?subscribe_or_invite=
0&send_welcome_msg_to_this_batch=0&notification_to_list_owner=0&subscrib
ees_upload=<user>@<domain>.com&adminpw=<pw>

 

Unsubscribe a user without telling anybody:

http://<domain>/mailman/admin/<listname>/members/remove?send_unsub_ack_t
o_this_batch=0&send_unsub_notifications_to_list_owner=0&unsubscribees_up
load=<user>@<domain>.com&adminpw=<pw>

 

BUT what I CAN'T do is turn a user's digest mode on or off.  

 

I've tried:

 

http://<domain>/mailman/options/<listname>/<user>--at--<domain>?digest=0
&options-submit&options-submit&adminpw=<pw>

 

But that doesn't authenticate.  On the real web side, it works if you
authenticate FIRST with another page, then call the user's options page
after you're authenticated as the admin, but I don't think I can do that
with wget.

 

I've tried:

http://<domain>/mailman/admin/<listname>/members/list?lfind_member=<user
>@<domain>&digest=off&setmemberopts_btn&adminpw=<pw>

 

But there I've got the problem that an unchecked radio button doesn't
show up.  I've tried several iterations with no luck.

 

HELP! (TIA)

 

---

W. Curtis Preston

Author of O'Reilly's Backup & Recovery and Using SANs and NAS

VP Data Protection

GlassHouse Technologies

 

 

 

 


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu May 31 12:06:00 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 19:06:00 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Using wget to turn digest mode on/off
In-Reply-To: <4FBA0941CF3D9347889AA5FF23A809BE73F337@ghmail02.glasshousetech.com>
References: <4FBA0941CF3D9347889AA5FF23A809BE73F337@ghmail02.glasshousetech.com>
Message-ID: <874plt1f5i.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Curtis Preston writes:

 > But that doesn't authenticate.  On the real web side, it works if you
 > authenticate FIRST with another page, then call the user's options page
 > after you're authenticated as the admin, but I don't think I can do that
 > with wget.

Dunno if it will get you where you want to be, but try "man wget" and
look up the --load-cookies and (IIRC) --store-cookies options.


From fatal.exception at gmail.com  Thu May 31 19:29:05 2007
From: fatal.exception at gmail.com (Jon Pauli)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 12:29:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] odd empty bounce message generated upon posting to
	a mailing list
Message-ID: <ad2cb7960705311029t51d4a3bco6613c36bac912359@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I have been looking around in the docs and have not seen anything that
matches my issue.

I have a couple of mailing lists and every time anyone- member or
non-member posts, everything works fine but the list owner gets

1)An uncaught bounce notification containing an empty attachment
called ForwardedMessage.eml. Thunderbird is the MUA so I'm guessing it
is responsible for determining how to interpret the attachment, but
even if I save it as a text file it is a 2 byte long file with no
visible characters in it...I didn't take a hex editor to it. I
understand why listowner gets these, I'm just not sure how it can work
with a 2 byte file and no headers ;)

2. An email where no subject and no sender appear in the MUA. The
headers are as follows:

Delivered-To: me at mydomain.com
Return-Path: <
mailman-bounces at mail.mydomain.com>
Received: from [192.168.10.22] (softdnserr [127.0.0.1])
by mail.mydomain.com with esmtp; Thu, 31 May 2007 09:57:36 -0500id
00A9A0CA.465EE260.00010B2E
Sender: mailman-bounces at mail.mydomain.com
Errors-To: mailman-bounces at mail.mydomain.com
Message-ID: <courier.465EE260.00010B2E at mydomain>
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 09:57:36 -0500
To: undisclosed-recipients: ;

The interesting things I noticed are:

1. The Received: header line is wrong. The mail server has a DNS
server running on it as well as the MTA.  its IP is 192.168.11.22 NOT
10.22 There is no 192.168.10.22 on my network. This happens only for
mailman emails. I don't recall having to set any IPs when I set up
mailman. What is wrong here?

2. The end of the Message-ID: line contains only mydomain, not say,
mydomain.com like non-mailman emails.

3. There is no Sender showing up in the MUA but the Sender: header is
present. It looks like Thunderbird maybe uses the From: header instead
of the Sender header despite naming the column where this would appear
"Sender".

I'd appreciate any thoughts or insight into this. I am confused.

From pfonville at troxlerlabs.com  Thu May 31 20:21:49 2007
From: pfonville at troxlerlabs.com (Phil Fonville)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 14:21:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to Create New Lists
Message-ID: <7C0A972FBA61F145984B9E890AA006A701131826@SNEEZY.troxlerlabs.local>


I am unable to create new lists with either the web interface or the
newlist script.  However, I can post to my existing lists, and the posts
go out to list subscribers.
 
Failed attempts yield this message:

   Error: Unknown virtual host: bashful at troxlerlabs.local
 

my mm_cfg.py file contains:

   DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/

   DEFAULT_NNTP_HOST = 'bashful'

   DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'bashful'

   DEFAULT_URL_HOST - 'bashful'

   add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
 

I did run the fix_url script against my existing lists.  I see no
evidence of problems when I run the check_perms and check_db scripts.

My hostname (physical and virtual [see below]) is
bashful.troxlerlabs.local

I have stopped and restarted the qrunner.

I should mention that my setup includes Postfix and Apache running in
the same host.  All this is in a SUSE Linux 10.2 virtual machine with
NAT and ports 25 and 80 forwarded to their respective applications.

This virtual machine worked fine on a different host, pfonvillepc2 (with
"pfonvillepc2" substituted for all instances of "bashful") before moving
it to bashful.

I have looked for posts and FAQs for similar problem(s) but couldn't
find any.  Would be grateful for any help.

 

From cpreston at glasshouse.com  Thu May 31 23:08:36 2007
From: cpreston at glasshouse.com (Curtis Preston)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 17:08:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Which script does /admin/members call?
Message-ID: <4FBA0941CF3D9347889AA5FF23A809BE73F52B@ghmail02.glasshousetech.com>

I need to know which script is called when I run the /admin/members page
and press Submit.  I can't figure it out since ./cgi-bin/members is a
binary.  

 

(I'm continuing down my path of trying to figure out how to set the
digest mode via wget and I need to see how Mailman is parsing this
form.)

 

---

W. Curtis Preston

Author of O'Reilly's Backup & Recovery and Using SANs and NAS

VP Data Protection

GlassHouse Technologies

 


From msapiro at value.net  Thu May 31 23:15:17 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 14:15:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to Create New Lists
In-Reply-To: <7C0A972FBA61F145984B9E890AA006A701131826@SNEEZY.troxlerlabs.local>
Message-ID: <PC1760200705311415170281e3436f8a@msapiro>

Phil Fonville wrote:
>
>I am unable to create new lists with either the web interface or the
>newlist script.  However, I can post to my existing lists, and the posts
>go out to list subscribers.
> 
>Failed attempts yield this message:
>
>   Error: Unknown virtual host: bashful at troxlerlabs.local
> 
>
>my mm_cfg.py file contains:
>
>   DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/
>
>   DEFAULT_NNTP_HOST = 'bashful'


This only affects mail <-> news gatewaying


>   DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'bashful'
>
>   DEFAULT_URL_HOST - 'bashful'


All the above host names must be fully qualified - i.e...
'bashful.troxlerlabs.local', not just 'bashful'.

Also, I assume the above '_' instead of '=' is just a typo in your
email.

Finally, it would be good here to remove the Defaults.py
add_virtualhost() entry by inserting

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()

prior to


>   add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> 
>
>I did run the fix_url script against my existing lists.  I see no
>evidence of problems when I run the check_perms and check_db scripts.
>
>My hostname (physical and virtual [see below]) is
>bashful.troxlerlabs.local


After you fix mm_cfg.py as above, it would be good to run fix_url again.

Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan