From boxenberg at hotmail.com  Tue Apr  1 04:21:54 2008
From: boxenberg at hotmail.com (Dov Oxenberg)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:21:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] alias question...
In-Reply-To: <47F15DD4.8050707@msapiro.net>
References: <BLU108-W3256AAC62E266532B2B6ACA3FA0@phx.gbl>
	<PC17602008033020093600621ee89de2@msapiro>
	<BLU108-W15115DD4F539B3BE53BF0CA3FA0@phx.gbl>
	<47F15DD4.8050707@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <BLU108-W48AE1EFC182B9F4B84696AA3F50@phx.gbl>

Hi Mark,
Not surprisingly you were right on target again :-)
And please bear with me as I am relatively new to Linux and I really do try to help myself as much as I can before turning to the list for help.
Apparently the target files/folders on my system are under /var/lib/mailman/.  So, thanks to your help I have now overcome this hurdle.  And yes, I had postfix set as the value for MTA.I am now stepping through all the troubleshooting steps in the mailman FAQ here http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp as I am not able to see pending requests in the web interface and not receiving mail from the list, any kind of mail (also not seeing the logo images, just the placeholders).
What is strange is that in the graphical web based administration interface to my VPS, all the permissions appear set correctly, as far as I know, on /var/lib/mailman because I am seeing list as the group and root as the user on all the directories.  As far as the user, list is only on locks and qfiles.
When I originally ran check_perms it returned something like 80 "errors" so I ran it again with the -f flag and am now getting 11 errors, but only in the command line!  When I again run check_perms -f it still reports back the same 11 "errors" as in:
/var/lib/mailman/logs bad group (has: root; expected list) (fixing) and so forth through the remaining 10 directories.
I have rebooted the machine but still appear to be stuck in the loop....any ideas???
Thanks again for your indulgence.
Dov



> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:55:32 -0700> From: mark at msapiro.net> To: boxenberg at hotmail.com> CC: mailman-users at python.org> Subject: Re: RE: [Mailman-Users] alias question...> > Dov Oxenberg wrote:> > Hi,> > Actually this is probably the fourth or fifth time I am revisiting > > "Chapter 6."> > But I seem to be making better progress now than in my previous attempts.> > I am at the part where I am trying to make sure data/aliases* have the > > correct ownership, GID, etc. When I issue "genaliases" it seems to > > work...at least I get the command prompt back with no reported errors. > > Then, I try to do "chown mailman:mailman..." and am receiving the error > > message "chown: cannot access 'data/aliases*' : No such file or directory"> > > Have you set> > MTA = 'Postfix'> > in mm_cfg.py? Probably you have since genaliases would report a lot of > aliases if it were the default MTA = 'Manual'.> > > > I should point out in my installation the path to the mailman bin is > > /usr/lib/mailman/bin in case that makes any difference. But I thought > > by running the "genaliases" (from the mailman "bin" directory) the > > script would create the aliases for me??? Obviously I am mistaken...but > > what am I doing wrong now????> > > Assuming that you do have MTA = 'Postfix', you need to be in the right > directory when you do the chown. This certainly isn't > /usr/lib/mailman/bin. It may be /usr/lib/mailman/data, or something else > depending on how the Mailman you are installing was configured. The > name of the directory id data/ and it will be in whatever was configured > as var-prefix which may be /usr/lib/mailman/ or something in /var.> > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr  1 04:59:31 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 19:59:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] alias question...
In-Reply-To: <BLU108-W48AE1EFC182B9F4B84696AA3F50@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU108-W3256AAC62E266532B2B6ACA3FA0@phx.gbl>
	<PC17602008033020093600621ee89de2@msapiro>
	<BLU108-W15115DD4F539B3BE53BF0CA3FA0@phx.gbl>
	<47F15DD4.8050707@msapiro.net>
	<BLU108-W48AE1EFC182B9F4B84696AA3F50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <47F1A513.6070909@msapiro.net>

Dov Oxenberg wrote:

> Apparently the target files/folders on my system are under 
> /var/lib/mailman/.  So, thanks to your help I have now overcome this 
> hurdle.  And yes, I had postfix set as the value for MTA.
> I am now stepping through all the troubleshooting steps in the mailman 
> FAQ here 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp 
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp> as 
> I am not able to see pending requests in the web interface and not 
> receiving mail from the list, any kind of mail (also not seeing the logo 
> images, just the placeholders).


Did you add hash:/var/lib/mailman/date/aliases to the alias_maps setting 
in your Postfix main.cf?


> What is strange is that in the graphical web based administration 
> interface to my VPS, all the permissions appear set correctly, as far 
> as I know, on /var/lib/mailman because I am seeing list as the group and 
> root as the user on all the directories.  As far as the user, list is 
> only on locks and qfiles.
> When I originally ran check_perms it returned something like 80 "errors" 
> so I ran it again with the -f flag and am now getting 11 errors, but 
> only in the command line!  When I again run check_perms -f it still 
> reports back the same 11 "errors" as in:
> /var/lib/mailman/logs bad group (has: root; expected list) (fixing) and 
> so forth through the remaining 10 directories.
> I have rebooted the machine but still appear to be stuck in the 
> loop....any ideas???


I have no idea why your file management GUI would show you one thing and 
check_perms something else. what does command line "ls -l" show?

Are you running check_perms as root? If so, and for whatever reason, 
check_perms doesn't fix it, you can always do

chgrp list /var/lib/mailman/*

Also, if your Mailman user:group is list:list, that is what you should 
set the user:group of /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases* to.

See the section just below the warning box at 
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node10.html> for some information 
on icons, although the default setting IMAGE_LOGOS = '/icons/' seems to 
be correct for many apache installations.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From boxenberg at hotmail.com  Tue Apr  1 05:44:11 2008
From: boxenberg at hotmail.com (Dov Oxenberg)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 23:44:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] alias question...
In-Reply-To: <47F1A513.6070909@msapiro.net>
References: <BLU108-W3256AAC62E266532B2B6ACA3FA0@phx.gbl>
	<PC17602008033020093600621ee89de2@msapiro>
	<BLU108-W15115DD4F539B3BE53BF0CA3FA0@phx.gbl>
	<47F15DD4.8050707@msapiro.net>
	<BLU108-W48AE1EFC182B9F4B84696AA3F50@phx.gbl>
	<47F1A513.6070909@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <BLU108-W307C94F99262C70A2468A7A3F50@phx.gbl>

Here is the line from my main.cf:
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mail/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
The results of my ls -l, which by the way I had looked at earlier also and neglected to mention, are illustrated in the attached screen shot.
I see the system thinks the group membership is root rather than list, is that about right?
Yes, I am logged in as root both in the gui and ssh.
Ok, this is just too weird...I did chgrp etc. and then ls -l again and it it made no difference, group membership did not get changed.
Well, as was said, "...the game is afoot Watson...."
Have to look into this and figure out what is going on.
Thanks again for your help!
Dov
 > Did you add hash:/var/lib/mailman/date/aliases to the alias_maps setting > in your Postfix main.cf?> > >  > > I have no idea why your file management GUI would show you one thing and > check_perms something else. what does command line "ls -l" show?> > Are you running check_perms as root? If so, and for whatever reason, > check_perms doesn't fix it, you can always do> > chgrp list /var/lib/mailman/*> > Also, if your Mailman user:group is list:list, that is what you should > set the user:group of /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases* to.> > See the section just below the warning box at > <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node10.html> for some information > on icons, although the default setting IMAGE_LOGOS = '/icons/' seems to > be correct for many apache installations.> > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan> 

From matthias at pg-seefeld.de  Tue Apr  1 16:38:21 2008
From: matthias at pg-seefeld.de (Matthias Rank)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 16:38:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not all subscribers receive emails
Message-ID: <47F248DD.7070306@pg-seefeld.de>

Hi everybody.
I have a problem with Mailman. When I send an email to a list this won't 
be any problem for very little lists up to a size of about 15 
subscribers. But if the list grows there are more and more people who 
don't receive emails and produce bounces like "testlist: a at b.de bounce 
score: 1.0" or "testlist: a at b.de has stale bounce info, resetting". The 
amazing is that there is no obvious system which persons do not receive 
emails, especially these are not always the same people and they are 
member of different email providers. Furthermore there are some (few) 
people who do hardly receive any email sent with Mailman although their 
email-accounts are okay.
I'm using plesk, so any other mta than qmail won't work, if this might 
be the problem.
I'm very confused and would be very glad about help.
Regards, Matthias

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr  1 17:56:32 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 08:56:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] alias question...
In-Reply-To: <BLU108-W307C94F99262C70A2468A7A3F50@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU108-W3256AAC62E266532B2B6ACA3FA0@phx.gbl>
	<PC17602008033020093600621ee89de2@msapiro>
	<BLU108-W15115DD4F539B3BE53BF0CA3FA0@phx.gbl>
	<47F15DD4.8050707@msapiro.net>
	<BLU108-W48AE1EFC182B9F4B84696AA3F50@phx.gbl>
	<47F1A513.6070909@msapiro.net>
	<BLU108-W307C94F99262C70A2468A7A3F50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <47F25B30.7010902@msapiro.net>

Dov Oxenberg wrote:
> Here is the line from my main.cf:
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mail/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
> The results of my ls -l, which by the way I had looked at earlier also 
> and neglected to mention, are illustrated in the attached screen shot.
> I see the system thinks the group membership is root rather than list, 
> is that about right?

[Note: the screenshot was output from ls -l of /var/lib/mailman showing 
7 actual subdirectories and 11 symlinks to to directories in other places.]

The /var/lib/mailman/* things whose ownership you can't change are 
symlinks to other directories. The fact that chgrp doesn't 'work' is 
normal because it changes the group of the target, not that of the 
symlink itself.

This is an unusual way of installing Mailman, but it should be OK. You 
can just ignore the errors from check_perms in this case. But, this all 
indicates your Mailman is an unusual package, so our installation 
manual, FAQ, etc. may not be completely relevant.

The real issue appears to be the fact that there is a 
/var/lib/mailman/messages directory, and it appears from its link count 
to have 32 subdirectories. This suggests that your package might be 
setup to use Mailman's 'Maildir' delivery instead of aliases (but again 
in a non-standard way). I'm guessing that that's where your messages 
are, and MaildirRunner or whatever is supposed to process them on the 
Mailman side is not running.

You need to do one of two things. Either, go to documentation and 
support resources specific to your OS and Mailman package for help, or 
rip it all out and install a standard Mailman distribution.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr  1 18:29:28 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 09:29:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not all subscribers receive emails
In-Reply-To: <47F248DD.7070306@pg-seefeld.de>
Message-ID: <PC17602008040109292806405cea211c@msapiro>

Matthias Rank wrote:

>Hi everybody.
>I have a problem with Mailman. When I send an email to a list this won't 
>be any problem for very little lists up to a size of about 15 
>subscribers. But if the list grows there are more and more people who 
>don't receive emails and produce bounces like "testlist: a at b.de bounce 
>score: 1.0" or "testlist: a at b.de has stale bounce info, resetting". The 
>amazing is that there is no obvious system which persons do not receive 
>emails, especially these are not always the same people and they are 
>member of different email providers. Furthermore there are some (few) 
>people who do hardly receive any email sent with Mailman although their 
>email-accounts are okay.
>I'm using plesk, so any other mta than qmail won't work, if this might 
>be the problem.
>I'm very confused and would be very glad about help.


Some MTA in the delivery chain is not accepting more that 15 (?)
recipients per message. Presumably, this is the qmail that Mailman is
talking to. If it is your qmail, you may be able to adjust it to
accept more recipients, or you can set

SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 10

in mm_cfg.py to tell Mailman to never send to more than 10 recipients
per SMTP transaction.

Once you do this, I think the bulk of your bounces will go away. Then
you can investigate any remaining non-receipt problems.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cwieland at uci.edu  Tue Apr  1 18:46:33 2008
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 09:46:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] total site subscribers
Message-ID: <2843759D-99A7-4312-B337-8C8444CE2515@uci.edu>

Before I do this myself. Does anyone have a script to list all  
subscribers to a mailman site?

Con Wieland
UC Irvine

From attila at kinali.ch  Tue Apr  1 18:51:39 2008
From: attila at kinali.ch (Attila Kinali)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 18:51:39 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] total site subscribers
In-Reply-To: <2843759D-99A7-4312-B337-8C8444CE2515@uci.edu>
References: <2843759D-99A7-4312-B337-8C8444CE2515@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20080401185139.4612d437.attila@kinali.ch>

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 09:46:33 -0700
Con Wieland <cwieland at uci.edu> wrote:

> Before I do this myself. Does anyone have a script to list all  
> subscribers to a mailman site?

How about `find_members .*` ?
Alternatively a combination of list_members and list_lists
should also work.

			Attila Kinali

-- 
Praised are the Fountains of Shelieth, the silver harp of the waters,
But blest in my name forever this stream that stanched my thirst!
                         -- Deed of Morred

From boxenberg at hotmail.com  Tue Apr  1 18:52:23 2008
From: boxenberg at hotmail.com (Dov Oxenberg)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 12:52:23 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] alias question...
In-Reply-To: <47F25B30.7010902@msapiro.net>
References: <BLU108-W3256AAC62E266532B2B6ACA3FA0@phx.gbl>
	<PC17602008033020093600621ee89de2@msapiro>
	<BLU108-W15115DD4F539B3BE53BF0CA3FA0@phx.gbl>
	<47F15DD4.8050707@msapiro.net>
	<BLU108-W48AE1EFC182B9F4B84696AA3F50@phx.gbl>
	<47F1A513.6070909@msapiro.net>
	<BLU108-W307C94F99262C70A2468A7A3F50@phx.gbl>
	<47F25B30.7010902@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <BLU108-W531FBDD6303359E9222405A3F50@phx.gbl>

Hi,
I think I just spent too long in front of the computer yesterday :-)
Under /var/lib/mailman/messages folder are directories with what appear to be country abbreviations?
For example, under /var/lib/mailman/messages/eu/ there is a folder called LC_Messages, and under that two files, mailman.mo and mailman.po
I am not 100% positive, but I could swear I installed mailman by running configure>make>make install
I would think that should have compiled a build based on my system specific configuration?  On the other hand it is entirely possible, in fact probably likely <g>, I either fudged something when I ran configure or provided some value at some point I should not have.
Thanks,
Dov
 
> The real issue appears to be the fact that there is a > /var/lib/mailman/messages directory, and it appears from its link count > to have 32 subdirectories. This suggests that your package might be > setup to use Mailman's 'Maildir' delivery instead of aliases (but again > in a non-standard way). I'm guessing that that's where your messages > are, and MaildirRunner or whatever is supposed to process them on the > Mailman side is not running.> > You need to do one of two things. Either, go to documentation and > support resources specific to your OS and Mailman package for help, or > rip it all out and install a standard Mailman distribution.> > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr  1 19:01:46 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 10:01:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] total site subscribers
In-Reply-To: <2843759D-99A7-4312-B337-8C8444CE2515@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804011001460578e722dd90@msapiro>

Con Wieland wrote:

>Before I do this myself. Does anyone have a script to list all  
>subscribers to a mailman site?


  bin/find_member .

(The '.' is intentional - it is a regexp that matches any character)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr  1 19:12:59 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 10:12:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] alias question...
In-Reply-To: <BLU108-W531FBDD6303359E9222405A3F50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804011012590578e722dd9d@msapiro>

Dov Oxenberg wrote:

>I think I just spent too long in front of the computer yesterday :-)
>Under /var/lib/mailman/messages folder are directories with what appear to be country abbreviations?


No. It is I who spent too much time doing whatever. The messages/
directory has nothing to do with Maildir. It is the normal
localization message catalog. Ignore everything in my prior post about
Maildir.


>I am not 100% positive, but I could swear I installed mailman by running configure>make>make install


That process would not have created all those /var/lib/mailman symlinks
nor would it have put the locks and logs directories in
/var/lock/mailman and /var/log/mailman unless the package you
configured was non-standard to begin with.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From boxenberg at hotmail.com  Tue Apr  1 19:25:49 2008
From: boxenberg at hotmail.com (Dov Oxenberg)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 13:25:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] alias question...
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200804011012590578e722dd9d@msapiro>
References: <BLU108-W531FBDD6303359E9222405A3F50@phx.gbl>
	<PC1760200804011012590578e722dd9d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BLU108-W217A8FD1A8DCE84A4A37FBA3F50@phx.gbl>

No worries...Alright well, I have kept digging and in examining the mail.log file I see postfix is refusing SMTP connections which may explain why I am not seeing the pending requests.
And I also see the welcome messages to the members I manually subscribed (mass subscribe for the web UI) trying to go out but my local mail server is refusing the connection attempt....
So it seems it is really a postfix problem I am dealing with...at least that is the way it looks.
Will investigate further and let you know what I come up with.
Regards,
Dov > No. It is I who spent too much time doing whatever. The messages/> directory has nothing to do with Maildir. It is the normal> localization message catalog. Ignore everything in my prior post about> Maildir.> > > >I am not 100% positive, but I could swear I installed mailman by running configure>make>make install> > > That process would not have created all those /var/lib/mailman symlinks> nor would it have put the locks and logs directories in> /var/lock/mailman and /var/log/mailman unless the package you> configured was non-standard to begin with.> > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan> 

From boxenberg at hotmail.com  Tue Apr  1 19:43:52 2008
From: boxenberg at hotmail.com (Dov Oxenberg)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 13:43:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] alias question...
In-Reply-To: <BLU108-W217A8FD1A8DCE84A4A37FBA3F50@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU108-W531FBDD6303359E9222405A3F50@phx.gbl>
	<PC1760200804011012590578e722dd9d@msapiro> 
	<BLU108-W217A8FD1A8DCE84A4A37FBA3F50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU108-W56D3697C7993389561B4ADA3F50@phx.gbl>

Before I go on a wild goose chase...here are the contents of my master.cf file - does this look normal?  What I mean is, does it appear as though I am missing anything?
 
#
# Postfix master process configuration file. For details on the format
# of the file, see the master(5) manual page (command: "man 5 master").
#
# ==========================================================================
# service type private unpriv chroot wakeup maxproc command + args
# (yes) (yes) (yes) (never) (100)
# ==========================================================================
smtp inet n - - - - smtpd
#submission inet n - - - - smtpd
# -o smtpd_enforce_tls=yes
# -o smtpd_sasl_auth_enable=yes
# -o smtpd_client_restrictions=permit_sasl_authenticated,reject
#smtps inet n - - - - smtpd
# -o smtpd_tls_wrappermode=yes
# -o smtpd_sasl_auth_enable=yes
# -o smtpd_client_restrictions=permit_sasl_authenticated,reject
#628 inet n - - - - qmqpd
pickup fifo n - - 60 1 pickup
cleanup unix n - - - 0 cleanup
qmgr fifo n - n 300 1 qmgr
#qmgr fifo n - - 300 1 oqmgr
tlsmgr unix - - - 1000? 1 tlsmgr
rewrite unix - - - - - trivial-rewrite
bounce unix - - - - 0 bounce
defer unix - - - - 0 bounce
trace unix - - - - 0 bounce
verify unix - - - - 1 verify
flush unix n - - 1000? 0 flush
proxymap unix - - n - - proxymap
smtp unix - - - - - smtp
# When relaying mail as backup MX, disable fallback_relay to avoid MX loops
relay unix - - - - - smtp
-o fallback_relay=
# -o smtp_helo_timeout=5 -o smtp_connect_timeout=5
showq unix n - - - - showq
error unix - - - - - error
discard unix - - - - - discard
local unix - n n - - local
virtual unix - n n - - virtual
lmtp unix - - - - - lmtp
anvil unix - - - - 1 anvil
scache unix - - - - 1 scache
#
# ====================================================================
# Interfaces to non-Postfix software. Be sure to examine the manual
# pages of the non-Postfix software to find out what options it wants.
#
# Many of the following services use the Postfix pipe(8) delivery
# agent. See the pipe(8) man page for information about ${recipient}
# and other message envelope options.
# ====================================================================
#
# maildrop. See the Postfix MAILDROP_README file for details.
# Also specify in main.cf: maildrop_destination_recipient_limit=1
#
maildrop unix - n n - - pipe
flags=DRhu user=vmail argv=/usr/bin/maildrop -d ${recipient}
#
# See the Postfix UUCP_README file for configuration details.
#
uucp unix - n n - - pipe
flags=Fqhu user=uucp argv=uux -r -n -z -a$sender - $nexthop!rmail ($recipient)
#
# Other external delivery methods.
#
ifmail unix - n n - - pipe
flags=F user=ftn argv=/usr/lib/ifmail/ifmail -r $nexthop ($recipient)
bsmtp unix - n n - - pipe
flags=Fq. user=bsmtp argv=/usr/lib/bsmtp/bsmtp -t$nexthop -f$sender $recipient
scalemail-backend unix - n n - 2 pipe
flags=R user=scalemail argv=/usr/lib/scalemail/bin/scalemail-store ${nexthop} ${user} ${extension}
mailman unix - n n - - pipe
flags=FR user=list argv=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py
${nexthop} ${user}
 

From munichlinux at yahoo.co.in  Tue Apr  1 20:22:21 2008
From: munichlinux at yahoo.co.in (prashanth g)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 23:52:21 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] import email module problem
Message-ID: <629083.85861.qm@web94509.mail.in2.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I am using RHEL and its a 64 bit machine, using mod_python as well. I try to execute the from Mailman import MailList it fails saying:

Mod_python error: "PythonHandler mod_python.publisher"

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/site-packages/mod_python/apache.py", line 299, in HandlerDispatch
    result = object(req)

  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/site-packages/mod_python/publisher.py", line 213, in handler
    published = publish_object(req, object)

  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/site-packages/mod_python/publisher.py", line 412, in publish_object
    return publish_object(req,util.apply_fs_data(object, req.form, req=req))

  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/site-packages/mod_python/util.py", line 439, in apply_fs_data
    return object(**args)

  File "/usr/local/cal/staging/top-deals/alertemail/alertemail.py", line 124, in adduser
    from Mailman import MailList

  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 40, in ?
    import email.Iterators

ImportError: No module named Iterators

but i could able to import the email.Iterators module from python interpretor any solution?  





      Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now, on http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html/

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr  1 20:23:13 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 11:23:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] alias question...
In-Reply-To: <BLU108-W56D3697C7993389561B4ADA3F50@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU108-W531FBDD6303359E9222405A3F50@phx.gbl>	<PC1760200804011012590578e722dd9d@msapiro>
	<BLU108-W217A8FD1A8DCE84A4A37FBA3F50@phx.gbl>
	<BLU108-W56D3697C7993389561B4ADA3F50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <47F27D91.1080005@msapiro.net>

Dov Oxenberg wrote:
> 
> Before I go on a wild goose chase...here are the contents of my 
> master.cf file - does this look normal?  What I mean is, does it appear 
> as though I am missing anything?
>  
> #
> # Postfix master process configuration file. For details on the format
> # of the file, see the master(5) manual page (command: "man 5 master").
> #
> # ==========================================================================
> # service type private unpriv chroot wakeup maxproc command + args
> # (yes) (yes) (yes) (never) (100)
> # ==========================================================================
> smtp inet n - - - - smtpd

Well I have chroot 'n' on the above and other entries, but I don't think 
that's the problem.

In an earlier post where you indicated your main.cf settings, you had

inet_interfaces = 127.0.01all

At the time, I thought this was a result of hotmail garbling your 
message, but perhaps it's not and that's the problem. If you have

inet_interfaces = all

that should be sufficient to accept mail from anywhere, or you could 
have a list of IP addresses including 127.0.0.1 which will allow you to 
send mail plus your incoming addresses. Even

inet_interfaces = 127.0.0.1 all

would work although the 127.0.0.1 is redundant in this case, but if you 
have 127.0.01all with no whitespace preceding 'all', I think that's your 
problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr  1 20:36:26 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 11:36:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] import email module problem
In-Reply-To: <629083.85861.qm@web94509.mail.in2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008040111362607812cadc007@msapiro>

prashanth g wrote:
>
>I am using RHEL and its a 64 bit machine, using mod_python as well. I try to execute the from Mailman import MailList it fails saying:
>
>Mod_python error: "PythonHandler mod_python.publisher"
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/site-packages/mod_python/apache.py", line 299, in HandlerDispatch
>    result = object(req)
>
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/site-packages/mod_python/publisher.py", line 213, in handler
>    published = publish_object(req, object)
>
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/site-packages/mod_python/publisher.py", line 412, in publish_object
>    return publish_object(req,util.apply_fs_data(object, req.form, req=req))
>
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/site-packages/mod_python/util.py", line 439, in apply_fs_data
>    return object(**args)
>
>  File "/usr/local/cal/staging/top-deals/alertemail/alertemail.py", line 124, in adduser
>    from Mailman import MailList
>
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 40, in ?
>    import email.Iterators
>
>ImportError: No module named Iterators
>
>but i could able to import the email.Iterators module from python interpretor any solution?  


How are you setting sys.path so that "from Mailman import MailList"
works at all?

If you are not doing the following, I suggest you do

sys.path.insert(0, '/path/to/mailman/bin')
import paths

This will insure that everything is set up for Mailman to get what it
needs from subsequent imports.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rvaughn at amigostecnicos.net  Tue Apr  1 20:31:41 2008
From: rvaughn at amigostecnicos.net (RVaughn)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:31:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] alias question...
In-Reply-To: <BLU108-W56D3697C7993389561B4ADA3F50@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU108-W531FBDD6303359E9222405A3F50@phx.gbl>	<PC1760200804011012590578e722dd9d@msapiro>
	<BLU108-W217A8FD1A8DCE84A4A37FBA3F50@phx.gbl>
	<BLU108-W56D3697C7993389561B4ADA3F50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <47F27F8D.1090107@amigostecnicos.net>

I ran into the same problem with postfix and mailman-2.1.9-r3 on Gentoo.
You are already on a wild goose chase. But that master.cf seems good.
Check your postfix logs for

[local] fatal: execvp /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman: Permission denied

reverting to gentoo's 2.1.9 did nothing.  chmod does nothing.  I think
my problem may be a postfix setgid problem but is more likely a more complicated
system problem.

I'm solving the problem with new iron and something other than my
current MTA and OS.




Dov Oxenberg wrote:
> Before I go on a wild goose chase...here are the contents of my master.cf file - does this look normal?  What I mean is, does it appear as though I am missing anything?
>  
> #
> # Postfix master process configuration file. For details on the format
> # of the file, see the master(5) manual page (command: "man 5 master").
> #
> # ==========================================================================
> # service type private unpriv chroot wakeup maxproc command + args
> # (yes) (yes) (yes) (never) (100)
> # ==========================================================================
> smtp inet n - - - - smtpd
> #submission inet n - - - - smtpd
> # -o smtpd_enforce_tls=yes
> # -o smtpd_sasl_auth_enable=yes
> # -o smtpd_client_restrictions=permit_sasl_authenticated,reject
> #smtps inet n - - - - smtpd
> # -o smtpd_tls_wrappermode=yes
> # -o smtpd_sasl_auth_enable=yes
> # -o smtpd_client_restrictions=permit_sasl_authenticated,reject
> #628 inet n - - - - qmqpd
> pickup fifo n - - 60 1 pickup
> cleanup unix n - - - 0 cleanup
> qmgr fifo n - n 300 1 qmgr
> #qmgr fifo n - - 300 1 oqmgr
> tlsmgr unix - - - 1000? 1 tlsmgr
> rewrite unix - - - - - trivial-rewrite
> bounce unix - - - - 0 bounce
> defer unix - - - - 0 bounce
> trace unix - - - - 0 bounce
> verify unix - - - - 1 verify
> flush unix n - - 1000? 0 flush
> proxymap unix - - n - - proxymap
> smtp unix - - - - - smtp
> # When relaying mail as backup MX, disable fallback_relay to avoid MX loops
> relay unix - - - - - smtp
> -o fallback_relay=
> # -o smtp_helo_timeout=5 -o smtp_connect_timeout=5
> showq unix n - - - - showq
> error unix - - - - - error
> discard unix - - - - - discard
> local unix - n n - - local
> virtual unix - n n - - virtual
> lmtp unix - - - - - lmtp
> anvil unix - - - - 1 anvil
> scache unix - - - - 1 scache
> #
> # ====================================================================
> # Interfaces to non-Postfix software. Be sure to examine the manual
> # pages of the non-Postfix software to find out what options it wants.
> #
> # Many of the following services use the Postfix pipe(8) delivery
> # agent. See the pipe(8) man page for information about ${recipient}
> # and other message envelope options.
> # ====================================================================
> #
> # maildrop. See the Postfix MAILDROP_README file for details.
> # Also specify in main.cf: maildrop_destination_recipient_limit=1
> #
> maildrop unix - n n - - pipe
> flags=DRhu user=vmail argv=/usr/bin/maildrop -d ${recipient}
> #
> # See the Postfix UUCP_README file for configuration details.
> #
> uucp unix - n n - - pipe
> flags=Fqhu user=uucp argv=uux -r -n -z -a$sender - $nexthop!rmail ($recipient)
> #
> # Other external delivery methods.
> #
> ifmail unix - n n - - pipe
> flags=F user=ftn argv=/usr/lib/ifmail/ifmail -r $nexthop ($recipient)
> bsmtp unix - n n - - pipe
> flags=Fq. user=bsmtp argv=/usr/lib/bsmtp/bsmtp -t$nexthop -f$sender $recipient
> scalemail-backend unix - n n - 2 pipe
> flags=R user=scalemail argv=/usr/lib/scalemail/bin/scalemail-store ${nexthop} ${user} ${extension}
> mailman unix - n n - - pipe
> flags=FR user=list argv=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py
> ${nexthop} ${user}
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rvaughn%40amigostecnicos.net
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 


From munichlinux at gmail.com  Tue Apr  1 21:45:33 2008
From: munichlinux at gmail.com (Prashanth)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 01:15:33 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd:  import email module problem
In-Reply-To: <1f869bdd0804011244q7fd350b6i91f2b6c68fbdc3c8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <629083.85861.qm@web94509.mail.in2.yahoo.com>
	<PC17602008040111362607812cadc007@msapiro>
	<1f869bdd0804011244q7fd350b6i91f2b6c68fbdc3c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1f869bdd0804011245x79fb6d0ah3e3b2a2f275eab99@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 12:06 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
 > prashanth g wrote:

 >  How are you setting sys.path so that "from Mailman import MailList"
 >  works at all?

 mailman is installed in the /usr/local/mailman and i am appending the
 path by sys.path.append('/usr/local/mailman/')  i also tried the way
 you said but no change i get the same error. In the interpretor i
 could able to import the email module but not in the code or via
 mailman. In the file if i say import email.Iterator still it fails.
 Pretty hard to debug

 I dint understand if that is a mailman problem or python problem or
 mod_python's or something with the RHEL's RPM ?
 The same code works perfectly in all other machine except RHEL


-- 
regards,

Prashanth
http://munichlinux.blogspot.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr  1 22:00:55 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 13:00:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd:  import email module problem
In-Reply-To: <1f869bdd0804011245x79fb6d0ah3e3b2a2f275eab99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804011300550937b0d9b3c0@msapiro>

Prashanth wrote:

>On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 12:06 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> > prashanth g wrote:
>
> >  How are you setting sys.path so that "from Mailman import MailList"
> >  works at all?
>
> mailman is installed in the /usr/local/mailman and i am appending the
> path by sys.path.append('/usr/local/mailman/')  i also tried the way
> you said but no change i get the same error.


My suggestion to 'import paths' will also set things like the path to
/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib at or near the front of sys.path.
/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib should contain a version of the Python
email package which is completely compatible with the installed
Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cwieland at uci.edu  Tue Apr  1 22:03:08 2008
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 13:03:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] clone_member
Message-ID: <474A1C73-0D03-48AA-B804-38499E7094CD@uci.edu>

I've used this command regularly when folks addresses change but  
since upgrading it hangs very early along the way with no errors.

./clone_member -r katstein at uci.edu kvancko at uci.edu

......
processing mailing list: uci-gis
     address not found: katstein at uci.edu
processing mailing list: uctas-internal
     address not found: katstein at uci.edu
processing mailing list: uciahcsg
     address not found: katstein at uci.edu
processing mailing list: cie-info
     address not found: katstein at uci.edu

any ideas???

thanks in advance
Con Wieland
UC Irvine

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr  1 23:09:18 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 14:09:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] clone_member
In-Reply-To: <474A1C73-0D03-48AA-B804-38499E7094CD@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602008040114091809533156e7cb@msapiro>

Con Wieland wrote:

>I've used this command regularly when folks addresses change but  
>since upgrading it hangs very early along the way with no errors.
>
>./clone_member -r katstein at uci.edu kvancko at uci.edu
>
>......
>processing mailing list: uci-gis
>     address not found: katstein at uci.edu
>processing mailing list: uctas-internal
>     address not found: katstein at uci.edu
>processing mailing list: uciahcsg
>     address not found: katstein at uci.edu
>processing mailing list: cie-info
>     address not found: katstein at uci.edu
>
>any ideas???


Is this a regular occurrence or just this one address? And what do you
mean by hangs? Do you mean it gets that far and then stops but doesn't
return? If so, I'd check for stale locks, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.076.htp>.

Note also, if it is hung on a list, it is the next list in the order
returned by Python's os.listdir() which should be the same order as
returned by

  ls -U /path/to/mailman/lists


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cwieland at uci.edu  Tue Apr  1 23:58:31 2008
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 14:58:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] clone_member
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008040114091809533156e7cb@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008040114091809533156e7cb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <DB9DD35A-5972-4D42-B66B-6406F6ECCDBD@uci.edu>


On Apr 1, 2008, at 2:09 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Con Wieland wrote:
>
>> I've used this command regularly when folks addresses change but
>> since upgrading it hangs very early along the way with no errors.
>>
>> ./clone_member -r katstein at uci.edu kvancko at uci.edu
>>
>> ......
>> processing mailing list: uci-gis
>>     address not found: katstein at uci.edu
>> processing mailing list: uctas-internal
>>     address not found: katstein at uci.edu
>> processing mailing list: uciahcsg
>>     address not found: katstein at uci.edu
>> processing mailing list: cie-info
>>     address not found: katstein at uci.edu
>>
>> any ideas???
>
>
> Is this a regular occurrence or just this one address?

I have two addresses I've tried

> And what do you
> mean by hangs? Do you mean it gets that far and then stops but doesn't
> return?

yes

> If so, I'd check for stale locks, see
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&file=faq04.076.htp>.

Here is the lock file

bash-2.05$ ls
casa-chavez.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.8797.68
cie-news.lock
cie-news.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.9561.30
cie-news.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.9583.30
cie-news.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.9588.30
cie-news.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.9716.30
cie-news.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.9843.30
cie-news.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.9877.30
cie-news.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.9896.30
master-qrunner
master-qrunner.maillists.nac.uci.edu.10060
ucdc.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.15367.0
ucdc.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.15368.0
ucdc.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.15369.0
uci-kgsa.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.2514.68
uci-kgsa.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.2576.68
uci-mouseusers.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.11468.73


it does not include the suspect list.
>
> Note also, if it is hung on a list, it is the next list in the order
> returned by Python's os.listdir() which should be the same order as
> returned by
>
>   ls -U /path/to/mailman/lists

.....
cie-fac                     ppdphd
cie-info                    pps-coreteam
cie-ipa                     pps-update
cie-news                    preemie-study
citr                        probationoutcome
claffiliates                pso
clas                        purchasingsurvey
classrooms                  pv-announce
classrooms-jobs             pvrc
clcorefac                   r-sna-devel
clcwegsa    ...............

it hangs on:

processing mailing list: uctas-internal
     address not found: katstein at uci.edu
processing mailing list: uciahcsg
     address not found: katstein at uci.edu
processing mailing list: cie-info
     address not found: katstein at uci.edu


and never returns


>
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr  2 00:29:48 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 15:29:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] clone_member
In-Reply-To: <DB9DD35A-5972-4D42-B66B-6406F6ECCDBD@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020080401152948028152bacaa9@msapiro>

Con Wieland wrote:
>
>On Apr 1, 2008, at 2:09 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> If so, I'd check for stale locks, see
>> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
>> req=show&file=faq04.076.htp>.
>
>Here is the lock file
>
>bash-2.05$ ls
>casa-chavez.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.8797.68


Unless you caught this lock in the process of being created, the above
without a casa-chavez.lock file is residue and probably sould be
removed. Does "ps -fwp 8797" show a Mailman related process?


>cie-news.lock
>cie-news.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.9561.30
>cie-news.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.9583.30
>cie-news.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.9588.30
>cie-news.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.9716.30
>cie-news.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.9843.30
>cie-news.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.9877.30
>cie-news.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.9896.30


There are 6 processes waiting on this lock. That's very suspicious. The
contents of the cie-news.lock file (cat cie-news.lock) will tell you
which of the 7 processes currently has the lock. Is the pid still
viable? How old is the lock (ls -l)?


>master-qrunner
>master-qrunner.maillists.nac.uci.edu.10060


These are normal. They prevent another 'mailmanctl start' when Mailman
is running.


>ucdc.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.15367.0
>ucdc.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.15368.0
>ucdc.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.15369.0
>uci-kgsa.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.2514.68
>uci-kgsa.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.2576.68
>uci-mouseusers.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.11468.73


See comments re casa-chavez.

The only list that's actually locked is cie-news.


>it does not include the suspect list.


What suspect list?


>> Note also, if it is hung on a list, it is the next list in the order
>> returned by Python's os.listdir() which should be the same order as
>> returned by
>>
>>   ls -U /path/to/mailman/lists
>
>.....
>cie-fac                     ppdphd
>cie-info                    pps-coreteam
>cie-ipa                     pps-update
>cie-news                    preemie-study
>citr                        probationoutcome
>claffiliates                pso
>clas                        purchasingsurvey
>classrooms                  pv-announce
>classrooms-jobs             pvrc
>clcorefac                   r-sna-devel
>clcwegsa    ...............


This is not the output we want to see. Did you include the -U (upper
case meaning 'do not sort') option. The list we want to see will have

uctas-internal
uciahcsg
cie-info

in that order followed by the problem list which I suspect is cie-news.


>it hangs on:
>
>processing mailing list: uctas-internal
>     address not found: katstein at uci.edu
>processing mailing list: uciahcsg
>     address not found: katstein at uci.edu
>processing mailing list: cie-info
>     address not found: katstein at uci.edu

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gherzig at fmed.uba.ar  Wed Apr  2 00:00:43 2008
From: gherzig at fmed.uba.ar (Gerardo Herzig)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 19:00:43 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman +postgres
Message-ID: <47F2B08B.8090201@fmed.uba.ar>

Hi all. Im just wondering: There is a mailman implementation who uses 
postgres as data storage?

A quick google just shows me tons of postgres lists working under mailman :)

Thanks!

Gerardo

From munichlinux at gmail.com  Wed Apr  2 05:01:03 2008
From: munichlinux at gmail.com (Prashanth)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 08:31:03 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman footer
Message-ID: <1f869bdd0804012001g687b4f0bq68bd3b9124db49e5@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

       which variable has the e-mail id of the receptionist and if i
need to add that in the footer where should i set that. In the
Non-digest option i said %(member)s but it shows that as such

-- 
regards,

Prashanth
http://munichlinux.blogspot.com

From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Wed Apr  2 05:11:21 2008
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 23:11:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman footer
In-Reply-To: <1f869bdd0804012001g687b4f0bq68bd3b9124db49e5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1f869bdd0804012001g687b4f0bq68bd3b9124db49e5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47F2F959.60101@wingfoot.org>

Prashanth wrote:
> Hi,
>
>        which variable has the e-mail id of the receptionist and if i
> need to add that in the footer where should i set that. In the
> Non-digest option i said %(member)s but it shows that as such
>
>   

Don't forget to turn on personalization!

I usually use this as my footer on the lists I host:

_______________________________________________
%(real_name)s mailing list
%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s
%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
To change your list options and get your account info for %(real_name)s:
%(user_optionsurl)s

More from the help page on msg_footer option:

When personalization 
<https://www.wingfoot.org/mailman/admin/offthemap/?VARHELP=nondigest/personalize> 
is enabled for this list, additional substitution variables are allowed 
in your headers and footers:

    * *user_address* - The address of the user, coerced to lower case.
    * *user_delivered_to* - The case-preserved address that the user is
      subscribed with.
    * *user_password* - The user's password.
    * *user_name* - The user's full name.
    * *user_optionsurl* - The url to the user's option page.

Best,
--Glenn


From munichlinux at gmail.com  Wed Apr  2 05:26:00 2008
From: munichlinux at gmail.com (Prashanth)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 08:56:00 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman footer
In-Reply-To: <1f869bdd0804012023x528bb0fx96868de5878d399c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1f869bdd0804012001g687b4f0bq68bd3b9124db49e5@mail.gmail.com>
	<47F2F959.60101@wingfoot.org>
	<1f869bdd0804012023x528bb0fx96868de5878d399c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1f869bdd0804012026t417dcf80t5f9bfcaa3c2f6a66@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 8:41 AM, Glenn Sieb <ges+lists at wingfoot.org> wrote:
 >
 >  Don't forget to turn on personalization!
 >
 >  I usually use this as my footer on the lists I host:
 >
 >  _______________________________________________
 >  %(real_name)s mailing list
 >  %(real_name)s@%(host_name)s
 >  %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
 >  To change your list options and get your account info for %(real_name)s:
 >  %(user_optionsurl)s
 >
 >  More from the help page on msg_footer option:
 >
 >  When personalization
 >  <https://www.wingfoot.org/mailman/admin/offthemap/?VARHELP=nondigest/personalize>
 >  is enabled for this list, additional substitution variables are allowed
 >  in your headers and footers:
 >
 >     * *user_address* - The address of the user, coerced to lower case.
 >     * *user_delivered_to* - The case-preserved address that the user is
 >       subscribed with.
 >     * *user_password* - The user's password.
 >     * *user_name* - The user's full name.
 >     * *user_optionsurl* - The url to the user's option page.
 >

 after setting the footer when i receive the mail it show the variable
 as such like this :

  _______________________________________________

 %(user_address)s

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr  2 05:30:52 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 20:30:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman footer
In-Reply-To: <1f869bdd0804012026t417dcf80t5f9bfcaa3c2f6a66@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804012030520125f5706f11@msapiro>

Prashanth wrote:

>On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 8:41 AM, Glenn Sieb <ges+lists at wingfoot.org> wrote:
> >


!!!!!!!!!
> >  Don't forget to turn on personalization!
!!!!!!!!!


> after setting the footer when i receive the mail it show the variable
> as such like this :
>
>  _______________________________________________
>
> %(user_address)s


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.015.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From yahoo at jimpop.com  Wed Apr  2 06:38:36 2008
From: yahoo at jimpop.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 00:38:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail footer (was: mailman footer)
Message-ID: <7ff145960804012138p4ea845a8x3d5a3e7fe769cbd1@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a way to add a pipermail (archive) footer, but not an email
footer, specifically a script (a'la Google Analytics)?

Thx,

-Jim P.

From metsf1 at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  2 07:28:08 2008
From: metsf1 at yahoo.com (metsf1 at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 22:28:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderation not working
Message-ID: <191626.94513.qm@web30801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I have a list that I run that is having moderation
problems.  While I have turned on all of the correct
moderator options, certain addresses seem to be
alluding the system, and it's causing a lot of
problems.  I think I have tracked the cause to '+'
characters being used in people's email address.

For example, say the email bob at smith.com is subscribed
to my list.  I checked the "mod" box, and I set in
Send Filters the option that all people on and off the
list  must get moderator approval before posting.  If
bob at smith.com emails my list, he will get held and
I'll have to approve it.  However, often times people
on my list use an address like bob+ at smith.com.  These
emails go straight through and post to the whole list.

Right now everybody on the list is seeing unsubscribe
and admin requests, and it's REALLY annoying.  It's
caused a mass unsubscribe, and it's practically out of
control.  Does anybody please know how to fix this?

Mets


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.  
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

From yahoo at jimpop.com  Wed Apr  2 07:51:45 2008
From: yahoo at jimpop.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 01:51:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archive 404 strangness
Message-ID: <7ff145960804012251u59fb410dt88f165126d5c787f@mail.gmail.com>

Sort of OT, but Mailman related.....

Lately I've noticed lots of 404 log errors for archive pages where the
first letter of the Month is not capatilized (i.e. 2007-september,
instead of the correct 2007-September).  These first started in
appearing in the logs around December 2007, but continue today.  The
IPs are all over the place, contain no referrer, and the user agent
varies but does include some search engines like Y!Slurp.   I've
checked every file in the archive for references to the lower case
month, but didn't find any.

In the case of the Y!Slurp hits, the IPs don't show as whois'ed by
Yahoo!, but rather OC3 Networks.

So... is this an archive harvesting miscreant?

-Jim P.

From munichlinux at gmail.com  Wed Apr  2 08:03:58 2008
From: munichlinux at gmail.com (Prashanth)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:33:58 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman footer
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200804012030520125f5706f11@msapiro>
References: <1f869bdd0804012026t417dcf80t5f9bfcaa3c2f6a66@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200804012030520125f5706f11@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1f869bdd0804012303o52d60d3fxa70b4fea30f36599@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 9:00 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
>
>  See
>  <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.015.htp>
>


i want to display the topic that the user has subscribed to in the
footer, is there any way to do that?


-- 
regards,

Prashanth
http://munichlinux.blogspot.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr  2 17:23:40 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 08:23:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail footer (was: mailman footer)
In-Reply-To: <7ff145960804012138p4ea845a8x3d5a3e7fe769cbd1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008040208234004530f57402d@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:

>Is there a way to add a pipermail (archive) footer, but not an email
>footer, specifically a script (a'la Google Analytics)?


You can always edit the templates. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.

article.html - for the article itself
archidxfoot.html - for the periodic index page
archtoc.html - for the main TOC if PUBLIC_MBOX = Yes
archtocnombox.html - for the main TOC if PUBLIC_MBOX = No

After making an edited template, you have to rebuild the archive with
bin/arch --wipe to affect older pages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr  2 17:46:42 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 08:46:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman footer
In-Reply-To: <1f869bdd0804012303o52d60d3fxa70b4fea30f36599@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008040208464207500f574158@msapiro>

Prashanth wrote:
>
>i want to display the topic that the user has subscribed to in the
>footer, is there any way to do that?


You would have to modify the code in Mailman/Nandlers/Decorate.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr  2 18:24:26 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 09:24:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archive 404 strangness
In-Reply-To: <7ff145960804012251u59fb410dt88f165126d5c787f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804020924260296576c6d22@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
>
>Lately I've noticed lots of 404 log errors for archive pages where the
>first letter of the Month is not capatilized (i.e. 2007-september,
>instead of the correct 2007-September).  These first started in
>appearing in the logs around December 2007, but continue today.  The
>IPs are all over the place, contain no referrer, and the user agent
>varies but does include some search engines like Y!Slurp.   I've
>checked every file in the archive for references to the lower case
>month, but didn't find any.
>
>In the case of the Y!Slurp hits, the IPs don't show as whois'ed by
>Yahoo!, but rather OC3 Networks.
>
>So... is this an archive harvesting miscreant?


I don't know if it's a miscreant or not, but I sometimes see this with
private archives in the form of "Private archive file not found:"
messages in the error log.

When I first saw this, I was concerned, and, as you, I looked for bad
links in the archives, looked in apache logs for IPs, looked at other
web activity for those IPs, and looked for those IPs in the
listname.mbox file.

Note that in the case of a private archive, the user has to be logged
in to generate that error log message.

I ultimately satisfied myself that these were cases of people manually
typing URLs of archive posts or manually altering a URL to go to a
different month's index and mistyping the case.

One thing you could try is googling the specific URL with something like

allinanchor:".../2006-september/..."

to see if there are any hits with the 'bad' URLs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr  2 18:50:47 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 09:50:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderation not working
In-Reply-To: <191626.94513.qm@web30801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804020950470828703d6d2b@msapiro>

metsf1 at yahoo.com wrote:
>
>For example, say the email bob at smith.com is subscribed
>to my list.  I checked the "mod" box, and I set in
>Send Filters the option that all people on and off the
>list  must get moderator approval before posting.  If
>bob at smith.com emails my list, he will get held and
>I'll have to approve it.  However, often times people
>on my list use an address like bob+ at smith.com.  These
>emails go straight through and post to the whole list.


If on Privacy options... -> sender filters

default_member_moderation is Yes
member_moderation_action is Hold
accept_these_nonmembers is empty and
generic_nonmember_action is Hold,

and all current members are set moderated, e.g. by having set them
under "Additional Member Tasks" on the Membership
Management...->Membership List page, then the only way a post can get
to the list without being held and approved by a moderator is if it is
pre-approved with an Approved: password header or initial plain text
body line.

Note that if bob at example.com is a member, bob+ at example.com will still
be treated as a non-member (unless that address is explicitly a member
too), so I would ask if accept_these_nonmembers contains a regexp that
matches '+'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mwise at tjs.org  Wed Apr  2 19:10:12 2008
From: mwise at tjs.org (Michael J Wise)
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 12:10:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem With Mailman Migration
Message-ID: <47F3BDF4.5030502@tjs.org>

I've recently moved our mailman service to a different server. It 
appears to be working well in all regards but one. When I attempt to 
manage a list from the webpage interface on the correct server it sends 
me to the admin password authorization page on the old server. All lists 
constantly refer back to the old server for admin tasks.

I have set the mm_cfg.py file properly with our new servers address 
(xxxxx.domain.tld), and have run withlist -l -r fix_url both in "-a" 
mode and individually on the various lists with no results. I also would 
like to know how to shutdown the old mailman admin web page. I have 
edited out the reference to mailman in httpd.conf and restarted the 
daemon with no success; there are no aliases to mailman in the 
httpd.conf file aside from what I edited.

The server platform is Mac Server 10.4.11. Thank you for your help.

-- 
Michael J Wise
Technology Coordinator
Thomas Jefferson School
4100 S. Lindbergh Blvd.
St. Louis, MO 63127
(314)843-4152 x171


From metsf1 at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  2 20:36:01 2008
From: metsf1 at yahoo.com (metsf1 at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:36:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderation not working
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200804020950470828703d6d2b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <258996.7363.qm@web30806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


> If on Privacy options... -> sender filters
> 
> default_member_moderation is Yes
> member_moderation_action is Hold
> accept_these_nonmembers is empty and
> generic_nonmember_action is Hold,
> 
> and all current members are set moderated, e.g. by
> having set them
> under "Additional Member Tasks" on the Membership
> Management...->Membership List page

All of these settings are activated just as you said.

> then the only
> way a post can get
> to the list without being held and approved by a
> moderator is if it is
> pre-approved with an Approved: password header or
> initial plain text
> body line.

I'm not familiar with this, could this be the problem?

> Note that if bob at example.com is a member,
> bob+ at example.com will still
> be treated as a non-member (unless that address is
> explicitly a member
> too), so I would ask if accept_these_nonmembers
> contains a regexp that
> matches '+'.

I assumed it would treat the '+' as being a different
address.  However, accept_these_nonmembers is empty,
unless this is somehow a server setting that I can't
control which overrides my config.

I added in hold_these_nonmembers the following flags
to try to stop the posts
^*+ at example\.com$ and ^.*example\.com$

I tried both separately but neither worked.


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.  
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

From jt.koffenberger at delmarvagroup.com  Wed Apr  2 20:04:06 2008
From: jt.koffenberger at delmarvagroup.com (JT Koffenberger)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:04:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customized digest pages
Message-ID: <DA2AC6A4-CFB1-4F40-BA58-7E12B96A05A4@delmarvagroup.com>

Has anyone out there ever developed a customized digest page?  If so..  
is there any place for templates or examples of such emails?

Thanks!

--JTK



JT Koffenberger

Founder and General Manager
Delmarva Group, LLC

phone: 302.559.8711
fax: 707.281.4628
mailto:jt.koffenberger at delmarvagroup.com
http://www.delmarvagroup.com



From MHeer at lbl.gov  Wed Apr  2 22:13:36 2008
From: MHeer at lbl.gov (Mark Heer)
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 13:13:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER directive ignored
Message-ID: <f29598945ef5.47f38680@lbl.gov>

  
Hello,

I can run the following ssh from the command line and it works, yet when I set the config for external archive mailman is ignoring the config option and attempts to archive on the local machine.  After I updated mm_cfg.py I did a mailmanctl restart
and restarted mailman from rc3.d dir. 
I have a key on the receiving machine which utilizes the $SSH_ORIGINAL_COMMAND environment variable to handle %listname and update the proper directories.
 
mm_cfg.py:
PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = 'ssh -e none -i $HOME/.ssh/archkey mailman at sbuild6 %(listname)s'
PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = 'ssh  -e none -i $HOME/.ssh/archkey mailman at sbuild6 %(listname)s'


error log:
return Mailbox.Mailbox(open(afn, 'a+'))
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/test1.mbox/test1.mbox'

 
Any idea why mailman is ignoring the EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER instruction?

Thanks,

Mark

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr  2 22:17:53 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:17:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderation not working
In-Reply-To: <258996.7363.qm@web30806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080402131753060971012076@msapiro>

metsf1 at yahoo.com wrote:

>
>> If on Privacy options... -> sender filters
>> 
>> default_member_moderation is Yes
>> member_moderation_action is Hold
>> accept_these_nonmembers is empty and
>> generic_nonmember_action is Hold,
>> 
>> and all current members are set moderated, e.g. by
>> having set them
>> under "Additional Member Tasks" on the Membership
>> Management...->Membership List page
>
>All of these settings are activated just as you said.
>
>> then the only
>> way a post can get
>> to the list without being held and approved by a
>> moderator is if it is
>> pre-approved with an Approved: password header or
>> initial plain text
>> body line.
>
>I'm not familiar with this, could this be the problem?


Only if the people sending the posts know how to do this and know the
list admin or list moderator password.


>> Note that if bob at example.com is a member,
>> bob+ at example.com will still
>> be treated as a non-member (unless that address is
>> explicitly a member
>> too), so I would ask if accept_these_nonmembers
>> contains a regexp that
>> matches '+'.
>
>I assumed it would treat the '+' as being a different
>address.  However, accept_these_nonmembers is empty,
>unless this is somehow a server setting that I can't
>control which overrides my config.
>
>I added in hold_these_nonmembers the following flags
>to try to stop the posts
>^*+ at example\.com$ and ^.*example\.com$
>
>I tried both separately but neither worked.


The first regexp is totally invalid. It would have to be

^.*\+ at example\.com$

The second should hold any non-member mail from any domain ending with
"example.com". The fact that it doesn't says that the mail is being
accepted before any non-member tests are applied.

What Mailman version is this? Is this perhaps a cPanel or other
modified package?

I have tested this locally by moderating user at example.com. A post From:
user+ at example.com with envelope from user at example.com was held as a
post from a moderated member, and a post From: user+ at example.com with
envelope from user+ at example.com was held as a post from a non-member.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From angray at beeb.net  Wed Apr  2 22:25:21 2008
From: angray at beeb.net (Aaron Gray)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 21:25:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preventing Attachments
Message-ID: <0a9201c894ff$ad16e7f0$0200a8c0@ze4427wm>

Hi, a mailman newbie here :)

Before installing MailMan I want to know if there is an admin option for either disallowing attachments, ie removing them or bouncing messages if they have an attachment.

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr  2 22:47:29 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:47:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preventing Attachments
In-Reply-To: <0a9201c894ff$ad16e7f0$0200a8c0@ze4427wm>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804021347290625df8eabce@msapiro>

Aaron Gray wrote:
>
>Before installing MailMan I want to know if there is an admin option for either disallowing attachments, ie removing them or bouncing messages if they have an attachment.


In short, Mailman has content filtering based on MIME type and also
attachment filename extension.

You can for example disallow any mime multipart messages whatsoever and
allow only text/plain messages, but that's pretty extreme because some
people won't be able to figure out how to send text/plain only as
opposed to multipart/alternative.

You can allow multipart messages and only allow the text/plain parts
therefrom and remove the rest, and this is probably close to what you
want, but technically, it is not disallowing 'attachments' because it
will allow 'attachments' of type text/plain.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr  2 22:37:58 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:37:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER directive ignored
In-Reply-To: <f29598945ef5.47f38680@lbl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804021337580187df8eaa35@msapiro>

Mark Heer wrote:
> 
>mm_cfg.py:
>PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = 'ssh -e none -i $HOME/.ssh/archkey mailman at sbuild6 %(listname)s'
>PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = 'ssh  -e none -i $HOME/.ssh/archkey mailman at sbuild6 %(listname)s'
>
>
>error log:
>return Mailbox.Mailbox(open(afn, 'a+'))
>IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/test1.mbox/test1.mbox'
>
> 
>Any idea why mailman is ignoring the EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER instruction?


What is your setting for ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX. It appears that the setting
is either 1 or 2 (perhaps the default 2) and you are encountering the
above exception before ever getting to the *_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER tests.
(It generally helps to post the entire traceback, not just the error).

If you are using *_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER, ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX must be either 0
or 2, and if it is 2, you will be writing to the
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox files
and if the /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/
directory doesn't exist, you will get the above error before doing any
archiving.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr  2 23:40:29 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:40:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem With Mailman Migration
In-Reply-To: <47F3BDF4.5030502@tjs.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804021440290687225676cc@msapiro>

Michael J Wise wrote:

>I've recently moved our mailman service to a different server. It 
>appears to be working well in all regards but one. When I attempt to 
>manage a list from the webpage interface on the correct server it sends 
>me to the admin password authorization page on the old server. All lists 
>constantly refer back to the old server for admin tasks.
>
>I have set the mm_cfg.py file properly with our new servers address 
>(xxxxx.domain.tld), and have run withlist -l -r fix_url both in "-a" 
>mode and individually on the various lists with no results.


This is exactly the kind of thing that fix_url is supposed to fix. The
fact that it doesn't indicates problems with your host settings in
Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py

What you want to start with in mm_cfg.py is (with your own host names
of course)

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.example.com'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'example.com'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

If you don't have that, do that, restart Mailman and run fix_url again


>I also would 
>like to know how to shutdown the old mailman admin web page. I have 
>edited out the reference to mailman in httpd.conf and restarted the 
>daemon with no success; there are no aliases to mailman in the 
>httpd.conf file aside from what I edited.


Then there is some non-obvious magic at work. If you don't have the
ScriptAlias for Mailman in httpd.conf, how is httpd getting to those
CGI scripts?  You might get a clue from your httpd access_log.


>The server platform is Mac Server 10.4.11. Thank you for your help.


Which I assume is still the Apple modified Mailman 2.1.5. Maybe these
are Apple questions.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Apr  2 22:38:44 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 13:38:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preventing Attachments
In-Reply-To: <0a9201c894ff$ad16e7f0$0200a8c0@ze4427wm>
References: <0a9201c894ff$ad16e7f0$0200a8c0@ze4427wm>
Message-ID: <200804022036.m32KaZxo014991@newbox.eroded.org>

Aaron Gray wrote:
>Hi, a mailman newbie here :)
>
>Before installing MailMan I want to know if there is an admin option 
>for either disallowing attachments, ie removing them or bouncing 
>messages if they have an attachment.
>
>Many thanks in advance,
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

You have several options on what to do with attachments. You can have 
them completely stripped (which is what I do on my lists), leave them 
alone or have them "scrubbed".

Scrubbing is where the attachment is removed from the message and 
stored in the list archive while an URL is added to the list post 
pointing to the file.

All of this is controllable by file type, if you desired it, you can 
allow or scrub some types of attachments while disallowing all others.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr  3 00:13:31 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:13:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customized digest pages
In-Reply-To: <DA2AC6A4-CFB1-4F40-BA58-7E12B96A05A4@delmarvagroup.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804021513310718225676ed@msapiro>

JT Koffenberger wrote:

>Has anyone out there ever developed a customized digest page?  If so..  
>is there any place for templates or examples of such emails?


The default template for the initial portion of the digest is
masthead.txt. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From angray at beeb.net  Thu Apr  3 00:34:46 2008
From: angray at beeb.net (Aaron Gray)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 23:34:46 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preventing Attachments
References: <0a9201c894ff$ad16e7f0$0200a8c0@ze4427wm>
	<200804022036.m32KaZxo014991@newbox.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <0afe01c89511$c15b7c00$0200a8c0@ze4427wm>

> Aaron Gray wrote:
>>Hi, a mailman newbie here :)
>>
>>Before installing MailMan I want to know if there is an admin option 
>>for either disallowing attachments, ie removing them or bouncing 
>>messages if they have an attachment.
>>
>>Many thanks in advance,
> ---------------- End original message. ---------------------
> 
> You have several options on what to do with attachments. You can have 
> them completely stripped (which is what I do on my lists), leave them 
> alone or have them "scrubbed".
> 
> Scrubbing is where the attachment is removed from the message and 
> stored in the list archive while an URL is added to the list post 
> pointing to the file.
> 
> All of this is controllable by file type, if you desired it, you can 
> allow or scrub some types of attachments while disallowing all others.

Nice, very nice, thanks,

Aaron


From jon.slater at mesanetworks.net  Thu Apr  3 02:19:10 2008
From: jon.slater at mesanetworks.net (Jon Slater)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 18:19:10 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block spam from "-owner"?
Message-ID: <00c001c89520$56ea31e0$04be95a0$@slater@mesanetworks.net>

I am getting a great deal of spam to almost all of my lists.  Well, not the
lists per se, but to the owner's of the lists.  

 

Like:

members-owner at server.org

volunteers-owner at server.org

board-owner at server.org

 

I'm using SpamAssassin but these are coming in with spam score like "-0.6"

 

Is there some other mechanism for eliminating this spam?

 

Thanks!

 

Jon

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr  3 03:52:48 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 18:52:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block spam from "-owner"?
In-Reply-To: <00c001c89520$56ea31e0$04be95a0$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020080402185248042161ccced5@msapiro>

Jon Slater wrote:

>I am getting a great deal of spam to almost all of my lists.  Well, not the
>lists per se, but to the owner's of the lists.  

<snip>

>I'm using SpamAssassin but these are coming in with spam score like "-0.6"
>
> 
>
>Is there some other mechanism for eliminating this spam?


Mail to the -owner address is subject to the same header_filter_rules
(but not bounce_matching_headers) that are configured for a list under
Privacy options...->Spam filters. That's essentially all you have in
Mailman itself.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rbraver at ohww.norman.ok.us  Thu Apr  3 04:28:54 2008
From: rbraver at ohww.norman.ok.us (Robert Braver)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 21:28:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block spam from "-owner"?
In-Reply-To: <00c001c89520$56ea31e0$04be95a0$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
References: <00c001c89520$56ea31e0$04be95a0$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
Message-ID: <645829109.20080402212854@ohww.norman.ok.us>

On Wednesday, April 2, 2008, 7:19:10 PM, Jon Slater wrote:

JS> I am getting a great deal of spam to almost all of my lists.  Well, not the
JS> lists per se, but to the owner's of the lists.  

[...]

JS> I'm using SpamAssassin but these are coming in with spam score like "-0.6"

I'm running SpamAssassin in front of my Mailman list addresses with
great success. It seems to me your issue is to find out why the spam
is scoring low, which would be more of a SpamAssassin question.

Is most or all of the spam scoring low, or just some?

-- 
Best regards,
 Robert Braver
 rbraver at ohww.norman.ok.us


From jaldhar at braincells.com  Thu Apr  3 04:13:00 2008
From: jaldhar at braincells.com (Jaldhar H. Vyas)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 22:13:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding extra information to subscription requests.
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.00.0804022210550.21304@jaldhar-laptop>

[I originally sent this to -developers but that was probably the wrong 
place.  If you see it there, please respond here instead.]

This is a project I've been noodling about with for a bit but now is the time 
to ask how to do it properly.

For a mailing list I run using 2.1.9 I would like to new subscribers to provide 
an explanation of why they would like to join the list and acknowledge their 
acceptance of the list code of conduct.

Now adding a textarea and checkbox to the subscription form is easy but how do 
you make that extra information get sent to the list owners?  Do I have to hack 
cgi-bin/subscribe or is there some simpler way?

-- 
Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Apr  3 05:26:07 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 12:26:07 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Block spam from "-owner"?
In-Reply-To: <00c001c89520$56ea31e0$04be95a0$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
References: <00c001c89520$56ea31e0$04be95a0$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
Message-ID: <878wzvy5yo.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Jon Slater writes:

 > members-owner at server.org
 > volunteers-owner at server.org
 > board-owner at server.org
 > 
 > I'm using SpamAssassin but these are coming in with spam score like "-0.6"

In your SA local rules file add some rules that bump messages that are
To: .*-owner at server.org +10 points.  Then figure out what the content
of desired messages looks like and bump that -10 points.


From boxenberg at hotmail.com  Thu Apr  3 07:28:33 2008
From: boxenberg at hotmail.com (Dov Oxenberg)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 01:28:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] almost there...now mail loops :-(
Message-ID: <BLU108-W15A1AB887958C686C82B47A3F70@phx.gbl>

Hi,I would again like to extend my thanks to Mark and everyone for your help and guidance as I have been struggling with getting my mailing list working.I am close...finally got things working by editing some values in the main.cf file.Which leads me to my question - now that I have mail working, I mean I am actually receiving responses from the mail Server, albeit failure notifications, and can now see administrative requests in the console.  In fact, the self-subscription works as well...or at least it was.Anyway, now I am receiving the below messages from the mail Sever:This is the mail system at host mail.domain.com. I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could notbe delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster. If you do so, please include this problem report. You candelete your own text from the attached returned message.                    The mail system <subject-discuss at domain.com>: mail for domain.com loops back to myself

--Forwarded Message Attachment--From: boxenberg at hotmail.comTo: subject-discuss at domain.comSubject: Another test message...Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 00:13:34 -0400
Please help,
And thank you again!
 

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr  3 16:50:29 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 07:50:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] almost there...now mail loops :-(
In-Reply-To: <BLU108-W15A1AB887958C686C82B47A3F70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC176020080403075029018702455a98@msapiro>

Dov Oxenberg wrote:

>Hi,I would again like to extend my thanks to Mark and everyone for your help and guidance as I have been struggling with getting my mailing list working.I am close...finally got things working by editing some values in the main.cf file.Which leads me to my question - now that I have mail working, I mean I am actually receiving responses from the mail Server, albeit failure notifications, and can now see administrative requests in the console.  In fact, the self-subscription works as well...or at least it was.Anyway, now I am receiving the below messages from the mail Sever:This is the mail system at host mail.domain.com. I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could notbe delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster. If you do so, please include this problem report. You candelete your own text from the attached returned message.                    The mail system <subject-discuss at domain.com>: mail !
> for domain.com loops back to myself
>
>--Forwarded Message Attachment--From: boxenberg at hotmail.comTo: subject-discuss at domain.comSubject: Another test message...Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 00:13:34 -0400
>Please help,
>And thank you again!


First, please complain to hotmail about the fact that it strips all the
line breaks from your pasted text. I've complained, but they don't
seem to think they have a problem. Perhaps if more people complain,
they'll eventually get it.

Now, the "loops back to myself" is Postfix's way of telling you that it
doesn't know how to deliver to domain.com.

The easiest fix is just to add domain.com to the mydestination list in
main.cf.

If, on the other hand, you need domain.com to be a virtual domain, add

virtual_alias_domains = domain.com
virtual_alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

to main.cf. either put these in or add the values to existing lists. If
you do it this way, you also need to put

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['domain.com']

in mm_cfg.py and rerun bin/genaliases, but if there is no need for this
to be a virtual domain,, just add domain.com to mydestination in
main.cf.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From wjonhind at gmail.com  Thu Apr  3 17:33:29 2008
From: wjonhind at gmail.com (Jon Hind)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 16:33:29 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hosted Mailman or roll your own ?
Message-ID: <f766081a0804030833h33f2c9b9k43399486cdbdc6e9@mail.gmail.com>

I Have a single mailman list with about 16 subscribers on Dreamhost. It's a
private family mailing list.

On dreamhost ones only interface is via the web admin interface which means
that I Can't see the logs and can't manually edit any of the mailman files.

I have problems with duplicate messages which I Haven't solved and also I
feel the geeky need to get at the nuts and bolts.

I should say that I'm not an IT professional, more of a long term dabbler.
Also I Have limited time to poke around with stuff, but have found that by
looking at the code on web type stuff really short circuits my learning
proceses.

 SO I was wondering if any others have made the switch from running a closed
mailman system to one of their own ? And for one list is it worth it ?

Cheers.

-- 
Jon

From steve at marmot.org  Thu Apr  3 21:18:17 2008
From: steve at marmot.org (Steve Lindemann)
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 13:18:17 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list address in From: line post message to closed
	list
Message-ID: <47F52D79.7040406@marmot.org>

I'm sorry, I'm just not sure what the best subject line would be for 
this... 8^(    I'm sure this has been going on for ages, but it's only 
just recently been brought to my attention.

The problem - when the list email address is (spoofed) in the From: line 
(as well as being on the To: line) the message posts to the list.  The 
ability to post to the list is supposed to be restricted to only list 
members.  The list address is not in the list of list members.

Is this normal?  I checked the config and there did see anything to 
allow this behavior there.  Is the list email address automatically 
considered to be a member of the list?  I can always block it in 
"privacy options->sender filters", but should that even be necessary?  Help!

I checked what documentation I can find and couldn't find any mention of 
this behaviour.  I didn't have a clue how to look for it in the FAQ so I 
settled for reading the index and didn't see anything resembling this 
there either.
--
Steve Lindemann                         __
Network Administrator                  //\\  ASCII Ribbon Campaign
Marmot Library Network, Inc.           \\//  against HTML/RTF email,
   url: http://www.marmot.org           //\\  vCards & M$ attachments
email: mailto:steve at marmot.org
voice: +1.970.242.3331 ext 116
   fax: +1.970.245.7854


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Apr  3 21:41:37 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 12:41:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list address in From: line post message to
 closed list
In-Reply-To: <47F52D79.7040406@marmot.org>
References: <47F52D79.7040406@marmot.org>
Message-ID: <200804031939.m33JdJE6001234@newbox.eroded.org>

Steve Lindemann sent the message below at 12:18 4/3/2008:
>I'm sorry, I'm just not sure what the best subject line would be for
>this... 8^(    I'm sure this has been going on for ages, but it's only
>just recently been brought to my attention.
>
>The problem - when the list email address is (spoofed) in the From: line
>(as well as being on the To: line) the message posts to the list.  The
>ability to post to the list is supposed to be restricted to only list
>members.  The list address is not in the list of list members.
>
>Is this normal?  I checked the config and there did see anything to
>allow this behavior there.  Is the list email address automatically
>considered to be a member of the list?  I can always block it in
>"privacy options->sender filters", but should that even be necessary?  Help!
>
>I checked what documentation I can find and couldn't find any mention of
>this behaviour.  I didn't have a clue how to look for it in the FAQ so I
>settled for reading the index and didn't see anything resembling this
>there either.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

This seemed rather strange to me too so I decided to test it on my 
server. I have 2.1.10b3 installed from source on a Redhat machine. My 
list is configured for posts from non-members to be discarded.

I sent a message to one of my lists using the list address in the 
From: header. The message was discarded as I expected it would be and 
I confirmed this by an entry in the vette log.

So it works on my installation as I expect it would. The question now 
is, what is the difference between my source install and your 
installation. Are you using a cPanel or Plesk version, or a version 
installed from somebody else's package maybe through yum or something similar?

Are you certain that the message was distributed via the list?

Is it in the list archive?

Can you match the message ID to one in the post log?

If you can see it in the archive and post log then it did get 
processed through mailman. If not, perhaps it was BCC'ed to your 
address or there is something else going on with your MTA.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From steve at marmot.org  Thu Apr  3 23:43:16 2008
From: steve at marmot.org (Steve Lindemann)
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 15:43:16 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list address in From: line post message to
 closed list
In-Reply-To: <200804031939.m33JdJE6001234@newbox.eroded.org>
References: <47F52D79.7040406@marmot.org>
	<200804031939.m33JdJE6001234@newbox.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <47F54F74.8020700@marmot.org>

Dragon wrote:
> Steve Lindemann sent the message below at 12:18 4/3/2008:
>>
>> The problem - when the list email address is (spoofed) in the From: line
>> (as well as being on the To: line) the message posts to the list.  The
>> ability to post to the list is supposed to be restricted to only list
>> members.  The list address is not in the list of list members.
>>
>> Is this normal?  I checked the config and there did see anything to
>> allow this behavior there.  Is the list email address automatically
>> considered to be a member of the list?  I can always block it in
>> "privacy options->sender filters", but should that even be necessary?  Help!
>>
> ---------------- End original message. ---------------------
> 
> This seemed rather strange to me too so I decided to test it on my 
> server. I have 2.1.10b3 installed from source on a Redhat machine. My 
> list is configured for posts from non-members to be discarded.
> 
> I sent a message to one of my lists using the list address in the 
> From: header. The message was discarded as I expected it would be and 
> I confirmed this by an entry in the vette log.
> 
> So it works on my installation as I expect it would. The question now 
> is, what is the difference between my source install and your 
> installation. Are you using a cPanel or Plesk version, or a version 
> installed from somebody else's package maybe through yum or something similar?
> 
> Are you certain that the message was distributed via the list?
> 
> Is it in the list archive?
> 
> Can you match the message ID to one in the post log?
> 
> If you can see it in the archive and post log then it did get 
> processed through mailman. If not, perhaps it was BCC'ed to your 
> address or there is something else going on with your MTA.
> 
> Dragon

I'm running version 2.1.9, installed from a tarball on a Dell server 
running CentOS 5.  I administer from the command line and thru the web 
interface.  It's a pretty basic install.

I went thru the logs and saw the message hit our email server 
(originally from 5850-260-1-62.dialup.samtel.ru), it gets passed to 
mailman and I see the  post entry showing it's arrival into mailman then 
then smtp entry showing it's delivery back to the email server.  I 
confirmed the delivery to the 144 recipients (fortunately this is a 
small list) in the mail log.  I am one of the recipients on this list, 
but in my case spamassassin flagged the message and it gets filtered away.

I just widened my search thru the mailman logs and noticed some other 
lists (in the vette log) holding messages for moderation with the list 
email in the From: line.  So it does appear to be something in this 
specific list that's misconfigured.  I'm off to poke around the config 
again but I'd be very interested in any suggestions about what I might 
be looking for!?  My first pass thru the config I was looking for 
something that would allow this to happen and didn't see it.
--
Steve


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Apr  4 00:08:52 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 15:08:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list address in From: line post message to
 closed list
In-Reply-To: <47F54F74.8020700@marmot.org>
References: <47F52D79.7040406@marmot.org>
	<200804031939.m33JdJE6001234@newbox.eroded.org>
	<47F54F74.8020700@marmot.org>
Message-ID: <200804032206.m33M6Xmi003590@newbox.eroded.org>

Steve Lindemann sent the message below at 14:43 4/3/2008:
>Dragon wrote:
>>Steve Lindemann sent the message below at 12:18 4/3/2008:
>>>
>>>The problem - when the list email address is (spoofed) in the From: line
>>>(as well as being on the To: line) the message posts to the list.  The
>>>ability to post to the list is supposed to be restricted to only list
>>>members.  The list address is not in the list of list members.
>>>
>>>Is this normal?  I checked the config and there did see anything to
>>>allow this behavior there.  Is the list email address automatically
>>>considered to be a member of the list?  I can always block it in
>>>"privacy options->sender filters", but should that even be necessary?  Help!
>>---------------- End original message. ---------------------
>>This seemed rather strange to me too so I decided to test it on my 
>>server. I have 2.1.10b3 installed from source on a Redhat machine. 
>>My list is configured for posts from non-members to be discarded.
>>I sent a message to one of my lists using the list address in the 
>>From: header. The message was discarded as I expected it would be 
>>and I confirmed this by an entry in the vette log.
>>So it works on my installation as I expect it would. The question 
>>now is, what is the difference between my source install and your 
>>installation. Are you using a cPanel or Plesk version, or a version 
>>installed from somebody else's package maybe through yum or something similar?
>>Are you certain that the message was distributed via the list?
>>Is it in the list archive?
>>Can you match the message ID to one in the post log?
>>If you can see it in the archive and post log then it did get 
>>processed through mailman. If not, perhaps it was BCC'ed to your 
>>address or there is something else going on with your MTA.
>>Dragon
>
>I'm running version 2.1.9, installed from a tarball on a Dell server 
>running CentOS 5.  I administer from the command line and thru the 
>web interface.  It's a pretty basic install.

Now when you say it's from a tarball, is it a binary install or did 
you compile it (configure, make, make install, etc.)?

Where did you obtain this version?

If it isn't from one of the links on the page linked below, it may 
have been altered in some way by somebody else to conform to some 
distribution specific criteria.

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman.html


>I went thru the logs and saw the message hit our email server 
>(originally from 5850-260-1-62.dialup.samtel.ru), it gets passed to 
>mailman and I see the  post entry showing it's arrival into mailman 
>then then smtp entry showing it's delivery back to the email 
>server.  I confirmed the delivery to the 144 recipients (fortunately 
>this is a small list) in the mail log.  I am one of the recipients 
>on this list, but in my case spamassassin flagged the message and it 
>gets filtered away.
>
>I just widened my search thru the mailman logs and noticed some 
>other lists (in the vette log) holding messages for moderation with 
>the list email in the From: line.  So it does appear to be something 
>in this specific list that's misconfigured.  I'm off to poke around 
>the config again but I'd be very interested in any suggestions about 
>what I might be looking for!?  My first pass thru the config I was 
>looking for something that would allow this to happen and didn't see it.

If this is a stock install from the mailman source, I've pretty much 
exhausted my ideas. The only settings I know that should affect the 
ability to deliver an e-mail are:

accept_these_nonmembers
generic_nonmember_action
header_filter_rules

I've looked through all the other options and don't see anything 
there that would possibly allow something through. The only other 
thing I can think of is that this mail might have been held and 
accidentally accepted or it might have been sent with an Approved: 
header with the list or site password.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From steve at marmot.org  Fri Apr  4 00:59:51 2008
From: steve at marmot.org (Steve Lindemann)
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 16:59:51 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list address in From: line post message to
 closed list
In-Reply-To: <200804032206.m33M6Xmi003590@newbox.eroded.org>
References: <47F52D79.7040406@marmot.org>	<200804031939.m33JdJE6001234@newbox.eroded.org>	<47F54F74.8020700@marmot.org>
	<200804032206.m33M6Xmi003590@newbox.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <47F56167.6000905@marmot.org>

Dragon wrote:
> Steve Lindemann sent the message below at 14:43 4/3/2008:
>> Dragon wrote:
>>> Steve Lindemann sent the message below at 12:18 4/3/2008:
>>>> The problem - when the list email address is (spoofed) in the From: line
>>>> (as well as being on the To: line) the message posts to the list.  The
>>>> ability to post to the list is supposed to be restricted to only list
>>>> members.  The list address is not in the list of list members.
>>>>
>>>> Is this normal?  I checked the config and there did see anything to
>>>> allow this behavior there.  Is the list email address automatically
>>>> considered to be a member of the list?  I can always block it in
>>>> "privacy options->sender filters", but should that even be necessary?  Help!
>>> ---------------- End original message. ---------------------
>>> This seemed rather strange to me too so I decided to test it on my 
>>> server. I have 2.1.10b3 installed from source on a Redhat machine. 
>>> My list is configured for posts from non-members to be discarded.
>>> I sent a message to one of my lists using the list address in the 
>>> From: header. The message was discarded as I expected it would be 
>>> and I confirmed this by an entry in the vette log.
>>> So it works on my installation as I expect it would. The question 
>>> now is, what is the difference between my source install and your 
>>> installation. Are you using a cPanel or Plesk version, or a version 
>>> installed from somebody else's package maybe through yum or something similar?
>>> Are you certain that the message was distributed via the list?
>>> Is it in the list archive?
>>> Can you match the message ID to one in the post log?
>>> If you can see it in the archive and post log then it did get 
>>> processed through mailman. If not, perhaps it was BCC'ed to your 
>>> address or there is something else going on with your MTA.
>>> Dragon
>> I'm running version 2.1.9, installed from a tarball on a Dell server 
>> running CentOS 5.  I administer from the command line and thru the 
>> web interface.  It's a pretty basic install.
> 
> Now when you say it's from a tarball, is it a binary install or did 
> you compile it (configure, make, make install, etc.)?
> 
> Where did you obtain this version?
> 
> If it isn't from one of the links on the page linked below, it may 
> have been altered in some way by somebody else to conform to some 
> distribution specific criteria.
> 
> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman.html
> 
> 
>> I went thru the logs and saw the message hit our email server 
>> (originally from 5850-260-1-62.dialup.samtel.ru), it gets passed to 
>> mailman and I see the  post entry showing it's arrival into mailman 
>> then then smtp entry showing it's delivery back to the email 
>> server.  I confirmed the delivery to the 144 recipients (fortunately 
>> this is a small list) in the mail log.  I am one of the recipients 
>> on this list, but in my case spamassassin flagged the message and it 
>> gets filtered away.
>>
>> I just widened my search thru the mailman logs and noticed some 
>> other lists (in the vette log) holding messages for moderation with 
>> the list email in the From: line.  So it does appear to be something 
>> in this specific list that's misconfigured.  I'm off to poke around 
>> the config again but I'd be very interested in any suggestions about 
>> what I might be looking for!?  My first pass thru the config I was 
>> looking for something that would allow this to happen and didn't see it.
> 
> If this is a stock install from the mailman source, I've pretty much 
> exhausted my ideas. The only settings I know that should affect the 
> ability to deliver an e-mail are:
> 
> accept_these_nonmembers
> generic_nonmember_action
> header_filter_rules
> 
> I've looked through all the other options and don't see anything 
> there that would possibly allow something through. The only other 
> thing I can think of is that this mail might have been held and 
> accidentally accepted or it might have been sent with an Approved: 
> header with the list or site password.
> 
> Dragon

acquired the software with:
wget 
http://openwebmail.org/openwebmail/download/release/openwebmail-2.52.tar.gz

followed by many wget's of required perl modules and such
and installed the lot.  I recall rounds of configure,make,make test,make 
install for the perl modules.  I don't recall doing that for the 
openwebmail, I do remember "./openwebmail-tool.pl --init" after some 
config file changes.

I'll check those specific settings.

If the message had been held I should have seen an entry for it in the 
vette log and there wasn't one.  I checked the message header for an 
Approved line and (fortunately) didn't find it.  I'd be very 
"disappointed" to find that password in a message header.

I'll keep poking at this end.  I'd love to hear any other ideas...
--
Steve


From fcocquyt at stanford.edu  Fri Apr  4 01:05:59 2008
From: fcocquyt at stanford.edu (Fletcher Cocquyt)
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 16:05:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spikes in mailman queue
Message-ID: <C41AB0E7.7BBE%fcocquyt@stanford.edu>

In the last 3-4 weeks I have observed 4-5 occasions were the mailman
qfiles/in dir suddenly gets bottlenecked (by mostly spam) ? seemingly
waiting on spamassassin.
I look at the syslog and it shows its processing 1 email every 10-20 seconds
? I?ve done some tuning already (local DNS caching server, Razor timeouts
lowered etc) - can anyone offer some advice on how to prevent this?  The
workaround currently is to stop/start SA (but then all the spam ends up in
the moderator's queue) - thanks for any tips

god at smtp-02:~ 3:01pm 52 # ps -ef | grep spam
    root 22276 22109   0 15:02:52 pts/1       0:00 grep spam
    root  7243     1   0   Apr 01 ?           0:26
/usr/local/stow/perl-5.8.5/bin/perl -T /usr/local/bin/spamd -d -u spamass -x
-P
 spamass 18745  7243   0 14:41:01 ?           0:02
/usr/local/stow/perl-5.8.5/bin/perl -T /usr/local/bin/spamd -d -u spamass -x
-P
 spamass   370  7243   0 13:03:20 ?           0:23
/usr/local/stow/perl-5.8.5/bin/perl -T /usr/local/bin/spamd -d -u spamass -x
-P



god at smtp-02:~ 3:01pm 51 # sa-update -D
[22133] dbg: logger: adding facilities: all
[22133] dbg: logger: logging level is DBG
[22133] dbg: generic: SpamAssassin version 3.2.3
[22133] dbg: config: score set 0 chosen.
[22133] dbg: dns: no ipv6
[22133] dbg: dns: is Net::DNS::Resolver available? yes
[22133] dbg: dns: Net::DNS version: 0.61
[22133] dbg: generic: sa-update version svn540384
[22133] dbg: generic: using update directory:
/usr/local/stow/perl-5.8.5/var/spamassassin/3.002003
[22133] dbg: diag: perl platform: 5.008005 solaris
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: Digest::SHA1, version 2.11
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: HTML::Parser, version 3.56
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: Net::DNS, version 0.61
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: MIME::Base64, version 3.07
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: DB_File, version 1.809
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: Net::SMTP, version 2.29
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: Mail::SPF, version v2.005
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: Mail::SPF::Query, version 1.999001
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: IP::Country::Fast, version 604.001
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: Razor2::Client::Agent, version 2.84
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: Net::Ident, version 1.20
[22133] dbg: diag: module not installed: IO::Socket::INET6 ('require'
failed)
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: IO::Socket::SSL, version 1.09
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: Compress::Zlib, version 2.007
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: Time::HiRes, version 1.59
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: Mail::DomainKeys, version 1.0
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: Mail::DKIM, version 0.28
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: DBI, version 1.48
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: Getopt::Long, version 2.34
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: LWP::UserAgent, version 2.001
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: HTTP::Date, version 1.43
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: Archive::Tar, version 1.36
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: IO::Zlib, version 1.07
[22133] dbg: diag: module installed: Encode::Detect, version 1.00
[22133] dbg: gpg: Searching for 'gpg'
[22133] dbg: util: current PATH is:
/bin:/etc:/lib:/usr/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/demo/SOUND:/usr/games:/usr/lib:/us
r/X11R6/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sfw/bin:/opt/sfw/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/lo
cal/etc:/usr/local/etc:/usr/openwin/bin:/opt/SUNWspro/bin:/sbin:/usr/sbin:/u
sr/ucb:/usr/ccs/bin:/usr/proc/bin:/usr/dt/bin:/usr/lib/nis
[22133] dbg: util: executable for gpg was found at /usr/local/bin/gpg
[22133] dbg: gpg: found /usr/local/bin/gpg
[22133] dbg: gpg: release trusted key id list:
5E541DC959CB8BAC7C78DFDC4056A61A5244EC45
26C900A46DD40CD5AD24F6D7DEE01987265FA05B
0C2B1D7175B852C64B3CDC716C55397824F434CE
[22133] dbg: channel: attempting channel updates.spamassassin.org
[22133] dbg: channel: update directory
/usr/local/stow/perl-5.8.5/var/spamassassin/3.002003/updates_spamassassin_or
g
[22133] dbg: channel: channel cf file
/usr/local/stow/perl-5.8.5/var/spamassassin/3.002003/updates_spamassassin_or
g.cf
[22133] dbg: channel: channel pre file
/usr/local/stow/perl-5.8.5/var/spamassassin/3.002003/updates_spamassassin_or
g.pre
[22133] dbg: channel: metadata version = 611820
[22133] dbg: dns: 3.2.3.updates.spamassassin.org => 611820, parsed as 611820
[22133] dbg: channel: current version is 611820, new version is 611820,
skipping channel
[22133] dbg: diag: updates complete, exiting with code 1


-- 
Fletcher Cocquyt
Senior Systems Administrator
Information Resources and Technology (IRT)
Stanford University School of Medicine

Email: fcocquyt at stanford.edu
Phone: (650) 724-7485



From steve at marmot.org  Fri Apr  4 01:10:39 2008
From: steve at marmot.org (Steve Lindemann)
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 17:10:39 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list address in From: line post message to
 closed list
In-Reply-To: <47F56167.6000905@marmot.org>
References: <47F52D79.7040406@marmot.org>	<200804031939.m33JdJE6001234@newbox.eroded.org>	<47F54F74.8020700@marmot.org>	<200804032206.m33M6Xmi003590@newbox.eroded.org>
	<47F56167.6000905@marmot.org>
Message-ID: <47F563EF.4070209@marmot.org>

Steve Lindemann wrote:
> Dragon wrote:
>> Steve Lindemann sent the message below at 14:43 4/3/2008:
>>> Dragon wrote:
>>>> Steve Lindemann sent the message below at 12:18 4/3/2008:
>>>>> The problem - when the list email address is (spoofed) in the From: line
>>>>> (as well as being on the To: line) the message posts to the list.  The
>>>>> ability to post to the list is supposed to be restricted to only list
>>>>> members.  The list address is not in the list of list members.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this normal?  I checked the config and there did see anything to
>>>>> allow this behavior there.  Is the list email address automatically
>>>>> considered to be a member of the list?  I can always block it in
>>>>> "privacy options->sender filters", but should that even be necessary?  Help!
>>>> ---------------- End original message. ---------------------
>>>> This seemed rather strange to me too so I decided to test it on my 
>>>> server. I have 2.1.10b3 installed from source on a Redhat machine. 
>>>> My list is configured for posts from non-members to be discarded.
>>>> I sent a message to one of my lists using the list address in the 
>>>> From: header. The message was discarded as I expected it would be 
>>>> and I confirmed this by an entry in the vette log.
>>>> So it works on my installation as I expect it would. The question 
>>>> now is, what is the difference between my source install and your 
>>>> installation. Are you using a cPanel or Plesk version, or a version 
>>>> installed from somebody else's package maybe through yum or something similar?
>>>> Are you certain that the message was distributed via the list?
>>>> Is it in the list archive?
>>>> Can you match the message ID to one in the post log?
>>>> If you can see it in the archive and post log then it did get 
>>>> processed through mailman. If not, perhaps it was BCC'ed to your 
>>>> address or there is something else going on with your MTA.
>>>> Dragon
>>> I'm running version 2.1.9, installed from a tarball on a Dell server 
>>> running CentOS 5.  I administer from the command line and thru the 
>>> web interface.  It's a pretty basic install.
>> Now when you say it's from a tarball, is it a binary install or did 
>> you compile it (configure, make, make install, etc.)?
>>
>> Where did you obtain this version?
>>
>> If it isn't from one of the links on the page linked below, it may 
>> have been altered in some way by somebody else to conform to some 
>> distribution specific criteria.
>>
>> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman.html
>>
>>
>>> I went thru the logs and saw the message hit our email server 
>>> (originally from 5850-260-1-62.dialup.samtel.ru), it gets passed to 
>>> mailman and I see the  post entry showing it's arrival into mailman 
>>> then then smtp entry showing it's delivery back to the email 
>>> server.  I confirmed the delivery to the 144 recipients (fortunately 
>>> this is a small list) in the mail log.  I am one of the recipients 
>>> on this list, but in my case spamassassin flagged the message and it 
>>> gets filtered away.
>>>
>>> I just widened my search thru the mailman logs and noticed some 
>>> other lists (in the vette log) holding messages for moderation with 
>>> the list email in the From: line.  So it does appear to be something 
>>> in this specific list that's misconfigured.  I'm off to poke around 
>>> the config again but I'd be very interested in any suggestions about 
>>> what I might be looking for!?  My first pass thru the config I was 
>>> looking for something that would allow this to happen and didn't see it.
>> If this is a stock install from the mailman source, I've pretty much 
>> exhausted my ideas. The only settings I know that should affect the 
>> ability to deliver an e-mail are:
>>
>> accept_these_nonmembers
>> generic_nonmember_action
>> header_filter_rules
>>
>> I've looked through all the other options and don't see anything 
>> there that would possibly allow something through. The only other 
>> thing I can think of is that this mail might have been held and 
>> accidentally accepted or it might have been sent with an Approved: 
>> header with the list or site password.
>>
>> Dragon
> 
> acquired the software with:
> wget 
> http://openwebmail.org/openwebmail/download/release/openwebmail-2.52.tar.gz
> 
> followed by many wget's of required perl modules and such
> and installed the lot.  I recall rounds of configure,make,make test,make 
> install for the perl modules.  I don't recall doing that for the 
> openwebmail, I do remember "./openwebmail-tool.pl --init" after some 
> config file changes.

OOPS... never mind that.  My notes only say I went to the mailman 
website and downloaded mailman-2.1.9.tgz... from there the notes get 
more involved but it boils down to: unpacked it, went thru the make/make 
install routine, ended up with a working copy.

I really need to pay attention to which question I working on... I was 
also dealing with an openwebmail issue at the same time (not much of an 
excuse but it's all I have 8^)  ...sorry for the confusion!!

> I'll check those specific settings.
> 
> If the message had been held I should have seen an entry for it in the 
> vette log and there wasn't one.  I checked the message header for an 
> Approved line and (fortunately) didn't find it.  I'd be very 
> "disappointed" to find that password in a message header.
> 
> I'll keep poking at this end.  I'd love to hear any other ideas...
> --
> Steve



From stumpie1 at sbcglobal.net  Fri Apr  4 01:24:53 2008
From: stumpie1 at sbcglobal.net (stumpie1 at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 16:24:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving list
Message-ID: <646331.24281.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi,
   
  A couple of mail lists that I manage are being moved in the next day or two.  Is there a way I can download a file with all the subscriber settings?  This is a quick thing and I don't have the time to dig through all the documentation.
   
  TIA for any help.
   
  cheers!
   
  Paul

From boxenberg at hotmail.com  Fri Apr  4 04:20:14 2008
From: boxenberg at hotmail.com (Dov Oxenberg)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 22:20:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem solved, list up and running...
In-Reply-To: <BAY124-W327754B5DB26667A6C9D518EF70@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY0-MC3-F16GAJ9BFn001df898@bay0-mc3-f16.bay0.hotmail.com>
	<BAY124-W327754B5DB26667A6C9D518EF70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU108-W213BF5431B4854269C3E4FA3F60@phx.gbl>

Hi!
Just a quick note to say thank you once again to Mark and everyone else.
I sincerely appreciate the support, guidance, and advice and have a tremendous amount of respect and admiration for you gurus.
Most of the time we tend to post to this list with our problems and I thought it would be refreshing to report a successful outcome, something positive instead.  With persistence, a great deal of online research, and the help and advice from this list
I was ultimately able to overcome the obstacles in my way and now have a mailing list up and running.
Granted I still need to pretty it up, as far as the web interface and default text, but the important thing was it be functional.
Thanks again to everyone for your help!
Dov
 

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  4 05:11:40 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 20:11:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list address in From: line post message
	toclosed list
In-Reply-To: <47F56167.6000905@marmot.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804032011400156a7ec4f44@msapiro>

Steve Lindemann wrote:
>
>If the message had been held I should have seen an entry for it in the 
>vette log and there wasn't one.  I checked the message header for an 
>Approved line and (fortunately) didn't find it.  I'd be very 
>"disappointed" to find that password in a message header.


If the incoming message had an Approved: header, it would have been
removed before being archived or sent to the list.

Note that a post will be determined to be from a list member if any of
From:, Reply-To: Sender: or the envelope sender (unix from) contains a
member address. I think in an earlier post, you indicated the message
came from 5850-260-1-62.dialup.samtel.ru according to your mail server
log. You could check there for the envelope from, and check the
Reply-To: of the received post. Unfortunately, if all you have is a
message from the list, the Sender: (and maybe other headers too) has
been rewritten by Mailman, but the original Sender: if any and 'unix
from' representing the envelope sender should be in the message in
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox. Note also, that this
list of places to look for a member address is the default, and can be
overridden by setting SENDER_HEADERS in mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  4 05:24:34 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 20:24:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving list
In-Reply-To: <646331.24281.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804032024340515a7ec50a5@msapiro>

stumpie1 wrote:
>   
>  A couple of mail lists that I manage are being moved in the next day or two.  Is there a way I can download a file with all the subscriber settings?  This is a quick thing and I don't have the time to dig through all the documentation.


If the lists are being moved to another Mailman installation, just move
the lists/listname/config.pck files.

I don't have the time to give a more complete answer.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  4 05:36:03 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:36:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spikes in mailman queue
In-Reply-To: <C41AB0E7.7BBE%fcocquyt@stanford.edu>
References: <C41AB0E7.7BBE%fcocquyt@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <47F5A223.90602@msapiro.net>

Fletcher Cocquyt wrote:
> In the last 3-4 weeks I have observed 4-5 occasions were the mailman
> qfiles/in dir suddenly gets bottlenecked (by mostly spam) ? seemingly
> waiting on spamassassin.
> I look at the syslog and it shows its processing 1 email every 10-20 seconds
> ? I?ve done some tuning already (local DNS caching server, Razor timeouts
> lowered etc) - can anyone offer some advice on how to prevent this?  The
> workaround currently is to stop/start SA (but then all the spam ends up in
> the moderator's queue) - thanks for any tips

I assume you actually are invoking SA from Mailman. If you could do this 
earlier, either in the MTA or maybe in procmail between the MTA and 
Mailman, multiple messages can be processed in parallel.

Or, you could consider slicing Mailman's in queue to get more 
parallelism at that level.

Beyond that, I suggest you try a SpamAssassin list for SA tuning questions.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From munichlinux at gmail.com  Fri Apr  4 10:37:33 2008
From: munichlinux at gmail.com (Prashanth)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 14:07:33 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] user email address in the body
Message-ID: <1f869bdd0804040137l3d19d5c0iaca099723ac8bf35@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

            Is there any way if i say the (user_address) in the email
body mailman will fill the email address there?

-- 
regards,

Prashanth
http://munichlinux.blogspot.com

From munichlinux at gmail.com  Fri Apr  4 15:57:02 2008
From: munichlinux at gmail.com (Prashanth)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 19:27:02 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman footer in html
Message-ID: <1f869bdd0804040657v796a5b32k33f379b0e813ce30@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

      I want to use html tags in the mailman's footer when i use it,
mailman escapes the tags, so how should i do that?

-- 
regards,

Prashanth
http://munichlinux.blogspot.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  4 17:23:00 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 08:23:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman footer in html
In-Reply-To: <1f869bdd0804040657v796a5b32k33f379b0e813ce30@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008040408230002505f7234fa@msapiro>

Prashanth wrote:
>
>      I want to use html tags in the mailman's footer when i use it,
>mailman escapes the tags, so how should i do that?


Mailman doesn't escape <tags> you put in msg_footer, etc. It does
escape them for display back to the web admin pages, but it puts them
unchanged in the actual footer.

However, they don't work because they are inserted into a text/plain
message part, so no intelligent MUA will render them as HTML.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Apr  4 17:29:17 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:29:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman footer in html
In-Reply-To: <1f869bdd0804040657v796a5b32k33f379b0e813ce30@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1f869bdd0804040657v796a5b32k33f379b0e813ce30@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c41bf97593a6@[192.168.1.199]>

On 4/4/08, Prashanth wrote:

>       I want to use html tags in the mailman's footer when i use it,
>  mailman escapes the tags, so how should i do that?

You can only do that when you're editing the template files which 
exist on the server, which would mean that you'd need to be the site 
admin and have full privileged shell access to that machine.

All web-based input in the forms is going to be processed and have 
potentially harmful HTML code de-fanged by Mailman.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  4 17:36:34 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 08:36:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] user email address in the body
In-Reply-To: <1f869bdd0804040137l3d19d5c0iaca099723ac8bf35@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804040836340593b86ffb33@msapiro>

Prashanth wrote:
>
>            Is there any way if i say the (user_address) in the email
>body mailman will fill the email address there?


No.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cwieland at uci.edu  Fri Apr  4 18:17:38 2008
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 09:17:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] format
Message-ID: <659D5E8D-4D9B-4487-BDE9-6965D68B3007@uci.edu>

Is it possible to change the "RE" formating on a per list basis. I  
recently upgraded and I see this was changed in 2.1.6.  BTW - I like  
the new format but it's those darn users-)

Changed in 2.1.6

   - New feature: subject_prefix can be configured to include a sequence
       number which is taken from the post_id variable.  Also, the  
prefix is
       always put at the start of the subject, i.e. "[list-name] Re:  
original
       subject", if mm_cfg.OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING is set No.  The  
default style
       is "Re: [list-name]" if numbering is not set, for backward  
compatibility.
       If the list owner is using numbering feature by "%d"  
directive, the new
       style, "[list-name 123] Re:", is always used.

I found this but I don't think it will do it.

  "Prefix for subject line of list postings." under General options

thanks in advance
Con WIeland
UC Irvine

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  4 19:05:54 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:05:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] format
In-Reply-To: <659D5E8D-4D9B-4487-BDE9-6965D68B3007@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020080404100554023408e56980@msapiro>

Con Wieland wrote:

>Is it possible to change the "RE" formating on a per list basis. I  
>recently upgraded and I see this was changed in 2.1.6.  BTW - I like  
>the new format but it's those darn users-)
>
>Changed in 2.1.6
>
>   - New feature: subject_prefix can be configured to include a sequence
>       number which is taken from the post_id variable.  Also, the  
>prefix is
>       always put at the start of the subject, i.e. "[list-name] Re:  
>original
>       subject", if mm_cfg.OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING is set No.  The  
>default style
>       is "Re: [list-name]" if numbering is not set, for backward  
>compatibility.
>       If the list owner is using numbering feature by "%d"  
>directive, the new
>       style, "[list-name 123] Re:", is always used.
>
>I found this but I don't think it will do it.
>
>  "Prefix for subject line of list postings." under General options


What are you asking, and what is the issue?

The default setting for OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING is Yes. It can be
overridden in mm_cfg.py. With this setting and no change to the list's
subject_prefix, prefixing will continue to work as before.

In 2.1.6 there were two new features - sequence numbering, and always
putting the prefix first before any Re:.

Numbering is controlled by litterally including '%d' in subject_prefix.
The %d is replaced by the message sequence number in the delivered
message. If you include the %d for sequence numbering, the setting for
OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING is ignored and the new behavior is implied.

In the absence of numbering, OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING controls the order of
the prefix and any Re:. Yes implies the previous style, e.g., "Re:
[Mailman-Users] format" and No implies, e.g., "[Mailman-Users] Re:
format".

Upon rereading, I think your question is "is it possible to have
OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING = No in mm_cfg.py, but use the old style for
selected lists through some list setting". Unfortunately, the answer
to that is no.

You can have OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING = Yes and use the new style for
selected lists, but only by adding sequence numbering to the prefix
for those lists that want the new style.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cwieland at uci.edu  Fri Apr  4 19:23:09 2008
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:23:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] format
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080404100554023408e56980@msapiro>
References: <PC176020080404100554023408e56980@msapiro>
Message-ID: <832E14CE-B8A6-4C74-91AA-350920429E19@uci.edu>


On Apr 4, 2008, at 10:05 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Con Wieland wrote:
>
>> Is it possible to change the "RE" formating on a per list basis. I
>> recently upgraded and I see this was changed in 2.1.6.  BTW - I like
>> the new format but it's those darn users-)
>>
>> Changed in 2.1.6
>>
>>   - New feature: subject_prefix can be configured to include a  
>> sequence
>>       number which is taken from the post_id variable.  Also, the
>> prefix is
>>       always put at the start of the subject, i.e. "[list-name] Re:
>> original
>>       subject", if mm_cfg.OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING is set No.  The
>> default style
>>       is "Re: [list-name]" if numbering is not set, for backward
>> compatibility.
>>       If the list owner is using numbering feature by "%d"
>> directive, the new
>>       style, "[list-name 123] Re:", is always used.
>>
>> I found this but I don't think it will do it.
>>
>>  "Prefix for subject line of list postings." under General options
>
>
> What are you asking, and what is the issue?
>
> The default setting for OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING is Yes. It can be
> overridden in mm_cfg.py. With this setting and no change to the list's
> subject_prefix, prefixing will continue to work as before.
>
> In 2.1.6 there were two new features - sequence numbering, and always
> putting the prefix first before any Re:.
>
> Numbering is controlled by litterally including '%d' in  
> subject_prefix.
> The %d is replaced by the message sequence number in the delivered
> message. If you include the %d for sequence numbering, the setting for
> OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING is ignored and the new behavior is implied.
>
> In the absence of numbering, OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING controls the order of
> the prefix and any Re:. Yes implies the previous style, e.g., "Re:
> [Mailman-Users] format" and No implies, e.g., "[Mailman-Users] Re:
> format".
>
> Upon rereading, I think your question is "is it possible to have
> OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING = No in mm_cfg.py, but use the old style for
> selected lists through some list setting". Unfortunately, the answer
> to that is no.

Yes that was the question, and the answer I suspected. I was just  
checking to see if I was missing something.

thanks
con

>
> You can have OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING = Yes and use the new style for
> selected lists, but only by adding sequence numbering to the prefix
> for those lists that want the new style.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From munichlinux at gmail.com  Fri Apr  4 19:49:18 2008
From: munichlinux at gmail.com (Prashanth)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 23:19:18 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman footer in html
In-Reply-To: <1f869bdd0804041028u24249e5am533e6d39d1b27dfe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1f869bdd0804040657v796a5b32k33f379b0e813ce30@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240800c41bf97593a6@192.168.1.199>
	<1f869bdd0804041028u24249e5am533e6d39d1b27dfe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1f869bdd0804041049q766c81e4vf537bc9488ef0a5d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi


 On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 8:59 PM, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
 >
 >  All web-based input in the forms is going to be processed and have
 > potentially harmful HTML code de-fanged by Mailman.
 >

 right, I tried changing the template/en/headfoot.html dint work is that right?

 instead of using unsubscribe: uri i want the unsubscribe as a anchor
 tag, so when i click the unsubscribe it will take me to subscription
 or some foo page.




 --
 regards,

 Prashanth
 http://munichlinux.blogspot.com



-- 
regards,

Prashanth
http://munichlinux.blogspot.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  4 20:08:12 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 11:08:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman footer in html
In-Reply-To: <1f869bdd0804041049q766c81e4vf537bc9488ef0a5d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804041108120078f4566eba@msapiro>

Prashanth wrote:
>
> right, I tried changing the template/en/headfoot.html dint work is that right?


That template contains the instructions for the basic, non-personalized
substitutions available for msg_header, msg_footer, digest_header and
digest_footer. The ONLY thing it affects is what you see when you
click the "Details for ..." link for the headers and footers.

Are you sure Mailman is what you want to be using? Your questions
indicate to me that some kind of customer relations management
software might be more suitable to your purpose.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  4 21:51:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 12:51:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hosted Mailman or roll your own ?
In-Reply-To: <f766081a0804030833h33f2c9b9k43399486cdbdc6e9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804041251080343f4566fbf@msapiro>

Jon Hind wrote:
>
> SO I was wondering if any others have made the switch from running a closed
>mailman system to one of their own ? And for one list is it worth it ?


It depends what kind of infrastructure you already have. You need to
have or have access to a server which meets the following requirements:

Is connected to the internet with a fixed IP address.
Has a domain name.
Has rDNS to to that domain name.
Is available on the internet at least most of the time.

Without the above, you won't be able to reliably send and receive mail.
If you have that, and have 'root access' to that server, and that
server has (or you can install) an MTA and a web server, then you can
install Mailman and have it work.

Is it worth it for one list? No, unless there is a significant 'hobby
project' component.

Note: I switched about 4 years ago from managing a few Topica exchange
lists to hosting them on a self-installed Mailman, but I already had
root access to a server that hosted web and email applications for the
domain.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From admin at evasfamily.com  Sat Apr  5 17:19:44 2008
From: admin at evasfamily.com (admin at evasfamily.com)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 10:19:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not receiving pending moderator request
	notifications
Message-ID: <063e01c89730$7ab4e900$6501a8c0@1stPoint>

I have several mailing lists that are not sending me notifications for pending moderator requests.  I do get new subscriber notifications.  I have "Should the list moderators get immediate notice of new requests, as well as daily notices about collected ones?"  set to "yes".  I do not see that I have access to the logs (it appears to be above my level of access via Cpanel, although I do have shell access if it can be accessed that way).  Is there anything I may be overlooking?  Would it be possible for me to set up a cron job to send notifications?  Any other suggestions? 
Thanks,
Dave

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr  5 18:37:47 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 09:37:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not receiving pending moderator
	requestnotifications
In-Reply-To: <063e01c89730$7ab4e900$6501a8c0@1stPoint>
Message-ID: <PC17602008040509374705318b5bbca2@msapiro>

admin at evasfamily.com wrote:

>I have several mailing lists that are not sending me notifications for pending moderator requests.  I do get new subscriber notifications.


Good. At least you get some owner notifications which means your owner
email is deliverable and processing of Mailman generated noticers is
working.


>I have "Should the list moderators get immediate notice of new requests, as well as daily notices about collected ones?"  set to "yes".


So you *should* be getting notices.


>I do not see that I have access to the logs (it appears to be above my level of access via Cpanel, although I do have shell access if it can be accessed that way).


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.
It will tell you where to find your cPanel Mailman installation, and
will also explain why we are somewhat limited in our ability to help
you.


>Is there anything I may be overlooking?  Would it be possible for me to set up a cron job to send notifications?  Any other suggestions? 


Standard Mailman runs several cron jobs including Mailman's
cron/checkdbs which sends the daily summary of outstanding moderator
requests. Do you get that? If not, what happens if you run
cron/checkdbs manually? Note it has to be run by a user in Mailman's
group in order to access everything it needs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr  5 19:10:32 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 10:10:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10 final release schedule.
In-Reply-To: <47D9E26E.4040708@msapiro.net>
References: <47D9E26E.4040708@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <47F7B288.6020801@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

For translators who haven't yet updated their translations for 2.1.10
and for other interested parties, I plan to release a 2.1.10 release
candidate on April 14, 2008 and barring any issues with the RC, the
2.1.10 final on April 21, 2008.

Note to translators - the latest mailman.pot for the 2.1 branch is at
<https://code.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1>. The SVN
repository on sourceforge is no longer maintained and is out of date.

One way to get your updated translation to me is to register on
launchpad and make your own private branch off the 2.1 branch, update
your branch and publish it and send me a note when it's ready. Then I
can just merge your branch back into the 2.1 branch.

Of course, if you prefer, you can just send me your updated message
catalog and templates if any or make them available anywhere on the web
and tell me where to find them.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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UjpxqBDIR8yLPin2faeMr7M=
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From barry at list.org  Sat Apr  5 20:50:51 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 14:50:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.10 final release
	schedule.
In-Reply-To: <47F7B288.6020801@msapiro.net>
References: <47D9E26E.4040708@msapiro.net> <47F7B288.6020801@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <5EC9708A-A3D7-4AE2-A2EE-23E1DBE074B7@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Apr 5, 2008, at 1:10 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
> For translators who haven't yet updated their translations for 2.1.10
> and for other interested parties, I plan to release a 2.1.10 release
> candidate on April 14, 2008 and barring any issues with the RC, the
> 2.1.10 final on April 21, 2008.

Sounds great, Mark.  Thanks!
- -Barry

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From david at johmar.com  Sun Apr  6 21:34:43 2008
From: david at johmar.com (David Beaumont)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 20:34:43 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Control of newsgroup posters
Message-ID: <000a01c8981d$43fa9bb0$60e88556@computername>

Is there a simple way to control newsgroup posters?  We interface our
mailman list to a newsgroup.  We find that not only do people who post via
the newsgroup NOT have to subscribe to our email list, we also cannot hold
their posts for moderation.  We would like the opposite of both of these.

Thanks, apologies if it is in the FAQ (which it usually is), I have searched
in vain for the answer using 'newsgroup' and 'moderation'.  

David


From kelly.terry.jones at gmail.com  Mon Apr  7 01:27:33 2008
From: kelly.terry.jones at gmail.com (Kelly Jones)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 16:27:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman autoresponder sends email from -bounces
	address?
Message-ID: <26face530804061627j5b1d8057q247ef33b82876530@mail.gmail.com>

We run a small internal mailing list, resumes at foo.com, that goes to
several people in HR. In other words, we use resumes like a sendmail
alias.

We recently added an auto-reply that says "thanks for submitting your
resume'". The auto-reply comes from "resumes-bounces at foo.com", which
seems incorrect. I can see setting "Errors-To:" to this address and
maybe even the envelope sender, but not the "From:" line.

The problem: when someone replies (perhaps w/ more followup
information), the reply goes to resumes-bounces at foo.com, which isn't
helpful.

Is this intentional? Can it be changed? We've played around w/
redirecting where resumes-bounces goes, but that doesn't seem like the
correct solution here.

-- 
We're just a Bunch Of Regular Guys, a collective group that's trying
to understand and assimilate technology. We feel that resistance to
new ideas and technology is unwise and ultimately futile.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr  7 01:36:46 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 16:36:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Control of newsgroup posters
In-Reply-To: <000a01c8981d$43fa9bb0$60e88556@computername>
Message-ID: <PC176020080406163646048483864412@msapiro>

David Beaumont wrote:

>Is there a simple way to control newsgroup posters?  We interface our
>mailman list to a newsgroup.  We find that not only do people who post via
>the newsgroup NOT have to subscribe to our email list, we also cannot hold
>their posts for moderation.  We would like the opposite of both of these.


That's not the way it works. The assumption is if you are gating from
news that you want all the posts from the news group.

It you only want posts on the list from list members and want them
moderated by the list, don't gate to the list from the news group,
just gate from the list to the news group and have list members post
to the list and not the news group.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From david at johmar.com  Mon Apr  7 01:57:17 2008
From: david at johmar.com (David Beaumont)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 00:57:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Control of newsgroup posters
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080406163646048483864412@msapiro>
References: <000a01c8981d$43fa9bb0$60e88556@computername>
	<PC176020080406163646048483864412@msapiro>
Message-ID: <000101c89841$f234c560$60e88556@computername>

Thanks but we have the newsgroup because some members, albeit a few, prefer
a newsgroup interface.  They would definitely not want to use the newsgroup
to read and then have to use email to post.   

I am experimenting with the mailman option 'List of non-member addresses
whose postings will be immediately held for moderation' and adding
'*@pegasus.annex.net'  which is what shows in the headers of the gated
newsgroup posts (with * being a random number).  Am I wasting my time
looking into that?  If not do I have the * right - I don't understand the
mailman help line  "start the line with a ^ character to designate a regular
expression match", can someone give examples of that usage to obtain the
wildcard function?

Thanks

David



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro  
> 
> >Is there a simple way to control newsgroup posters?  We 
> interface our 
> >mailman list to a newsgroup.  We find that not only do 
> people who post 
> >via the newsgroup NOT have to subscribe to our email list, we also 
> >cannot hold their posts for moderation.  We would like the 
> opposite of both of these.
> 
> 
> That's not the way it works. The assumption is if you are 
> gating from news that you want all the posts from the news group.
> 
> It you only want posts on the list from list members and want 
> them moderated by the list, don't gate to the list from the 
> news group, just gate from the list to the news group and 
> have list members post to the list and not the news group.


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr  7 02:04:19 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 17:04:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman autoresponder sends email from
	-bouncesaddress?
In-Reply-To: <26face530804061627j5b1d8057q247ef33b82876530@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080406170419054639523b55@msapiro>

Kelly Jones wrote:
>
>We recently added an auto-reply that says "thanks for submitting your
>resume'". The auto-reply comes from "resumes-bounces at foo.com", which
>seems incorrect. I can see setting "Errors-To:" to this address and
>maybe even the envelope sender, but not the "From:" line.
>
>The problem: when someone replies (perhaps w/ more followup
>information), the reply goes to resumes-bounces at foo.com, which isn't
>helpful.


Right, but when their vacation program replies, it isn't helpful for
that to go to your list.


>Is this intentional? Can it be changed? We've played around w/
>redirecting where resumes-bounces goes, but that doesn't seem like the
>correct solution here.


It's easy enough to change, if you want to hack the code. The From:
address is the second argument to Message.UserNotification in

 outmsg = Message.UserNotification(sender, mlist.GetBouncesEmail(),
                               subject, text, mlist.preferred_language)

at line 105 in Mailman/Handlers/Replybot.py. You could replace
mlist.GetBouncesEmail() with mlist.getListAddress() for the list
posting address, or mlist.getListAddress('owner') for the list-owner
address, or a new alias, say mlist.getListAddress('replies'), or even
a literal address.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr  7 02:28:57 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 17:28:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Control of newsgroup posters
In-Reply-To: <000101c89841$f234c560$60e88556@computername>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804061728570531ef1e328c@msapiro>

David Beaumont wrote:

>Thanks but we have the newsgroup because some members, albeit a few, prefer
>a newsgroup interface.  They would definitely not want to use the newsgroup
>to read and then have to use email to post.   
>
>I am experimenting with the mailman option 'List of non-member addresses
>whose postings will be immediately held for moderation' and adding
>'*@pegasus.annex.net'  which is what shows in the headers of the gated
>newsgroup posts (with * being a random number).  Am I wasting my time
>looking into that?


Yes. If the post is gated from usenet, all the
member/moderation/non-member tests are bypassed.


>If not do I have the * right - I don't understand the
>mailman help line  "start the line with a ^ character to designate a regular
>expression match", can someone give examples of that usage to obtain the
>wildcard function?

It's a regular expression, not a wildcard or glob. The correct thing
for what you would want is '^.*@pegasus\.annex\.net$' (see
<http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html>), but that is moot because
it won't work.

If this is your Mailman installation, and this is the only list you
gate from news, you could change the last line of the lines

                inq = get_switchboard(mm_cfg.INQUEUE_DIR)
                inq.enqueue(msg,
                            listname = mlist.internal_name(),
                            fromusenet = 1)

which begin at line 174 in cron/gate_news from

                            fromusenet = 1)

to

                            tolist = 1)

This would make the message look like any list post, but you may then
run into holds like 'implicit destination' on posts from unmoderated
members, but I gather you want them all held anyway.

If you have other gated news groups that don't want this behavior, you
can still do it, but the change becomes more complex.

You might even change the name of cron/gate_news to say
cron/our_gate_news and change the crontab accordingly so that your
change doesn't get reversed in an upgrade.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From greenspot at greenspot.fi  Mon Apr  7 12:22:58 2008
From: greenspot at greenspot.fi (Jussi Hirvi)
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 13:22:58 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing mm_cfg.py for existing lists
Message-ID: <C41FD0B2.28B8%greenspot@greenspot.fi>

Hi, list,

The problem I'm trying to solve is that Hotmail (and probably msn.com) do
not accept our Mailman emails - this seems to be a new phenomenon. The error
code is "too many recipients". From other sources I assume that Hotmail now
accept sonly max 9 recipients per one request, while Mailman's default
maximum is 500.

I try to solve this by adding
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 9
to my mm_cfg.py.

After Mailman restart, this seems to have no effect on existing lists - like
I expected.

Apparently I should use withlist - but how?

BTW, this is my first posting to the list.

- Jussi

--
Jussi Hirvi * Green Spot
Topeliuksenkatu 15 C * 00250 Helsinki * Finland
Tel. & fax +358 9 493 981 * Mobile +358 40 771 2098 (only sms)
jussi.hirvi at greenspot.fi * http://www.greenspot.fi


From uli at combie.de  Mon Apr  7 14:34:21 2008
From: uli at combie.de (combie)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 14:34:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman  sends only to listadmins
Message-ID: <00ba01c898ab$b4aceb40$6602a8c0@fettebeute>

System:
Strato.de root Server with ServerAdmin24
SuSE 10.2
mailman 2.1.9
exim 4.6.6
python 2.5

No Problem:
Create List in SA24
Subscribe and unsubscribe process seems ok
moderation seems ok
Web gui seems ok
no bad entries in mailman+exim logs
Normal Users can send to list and recives "You have sending to List"
the mails are in the archive
all 8 qrunners are started

Bad (the Problem)
the command "newlist" prints no aliases
Normal user dont recive any posted messages or archives or digest
only listadmins recive the mails


dirty hack:
i have put all members into the adminlist

Already checked:
read http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp
creating aliases in /etc/aliases  then "newaliases" an restart exim and 
mailman

What can i do?






From cwaltham at bowdoin.edu  Mon Apr  7 15:32:45 2008
From: cwaltham at bowdoin.edu (Chris Waltham)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 09:32:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Phantom moderation pending requests & heldmsg files
Message-ID: <2C8FD044-614D-4587-991F-B7EC36AE716C@bowdoin.edu>

A couple of weeks ago our Mailman 2.0 server crashed (a physical  
problem, it wasn't Mailman's fault!) and we had to upgrade to 2.1 in a  
real hurry. As a result, I had to copy the entire ~mailman/data  
directory... which may not have been such a good idea:

[mailman at list ~/data]$ ls -al | wc -l
40054

There are a _lot_ of files prefixed with "heldmsg-" in the data  
directory, as you can see. There are entries all the way back to 2005,  
in fact! I realize that I'm going to have to deal with all those files  
at some stage, but I currently have another problem. A user  
administers a list called "ams-announce", and they are receiving  
emails with the subject "The AMS-announce at list.bowdoin.edu mailing  
list has 31 request(s) waiting for your consideration". However, when  
they or I go to the admin interface, there are no pending requests.  
The user has been getting the same message for more than a week now,  
always with the same amount (31) of pending messages but there are  
never actually any messages there for the admin to discard.

Oddly, there are no files prefixed with "heldmsg-ams-announce" in the / 
home/mailman/data directory, however I did grep for the string "ams- 
announce" in _all_ heldmsg files and there are many matches --  
virtually all of it looks like spam. I suppose, then, that I have two  
questions:

* how can I print how many moderation requests a list has pending, and  
is there a way to flush the pending requests from the command-line?  
(The FAQ entries deal with doing it via the web interface, before  
2.1.5's feature of "discard all messages")
* can I print a list of what lists have what files pending in the  
format of heldmsg-$listname-$msgID, so that I can cross-reference the  
files I have on the filesystem (many of which are really old) with  
what the lists think need to be delievered?

This is with a 2.1.9 server.

Thanks,


Chris



From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr  7 16:55:48 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 07:55:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing mm_cfg.py for existing lists
In-Reply-To: <C41FD0B2.28B8%greenspot@greenspot.fi>
Message-ID: <PC176020080407075548032893811bb8@msapiro>

Jussi Hirvi wrote:
>
>I try to solve this by adding
>SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 9
>to my mm_cfg.py.
>
>After Mailman restart, this seems to have no effect on existing lists - like
>I expected.


SMTP_MAX_RCPTS is a setting that affects all SMTP delivery. It is not a
list setting. Setting it in mm_cfg.py and restarting Mailman is all
that is required.

Why do you think it isn't effective?

Note that if you mis spell SMTP_MAX_RCPTS in your mm_cfg.py setting, it
won't work and there will be no complaint.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From vancleef at lostwells.net  Mon Apr  7 17:42:25 2008
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 09:42:25 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing mm_cfg.py for existing lists
In-Reply-To: <C41FD0B2.28B8%greenspot@greenspot.fi>
Message-ID: <200804071542.m37FgP9E025382@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Jussi Hirvi has said:
> 
> Hi, list,
> 
> The problem I'm trying to solve is that Hotmail (and probably msn.com) do
> not accept our Mailman emails - this seems to be a new phenomenon. The error
> code is "too many recipients". From other sources I assume that Hotmail now
> accept sonly max 9 recipients per one request, while Mailman's default
> maximum is 500.
> 
> I try to solve this by adding
> SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 9
> to my mm_cfg.py.
> 
> After Mailman restart, this seems to have no effect on existing lists - like
> I expected.
> 
I think you will have to set the limit lower than 9.  My list runs
with 
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 5

It has been a couple of years since I experimented with this, and the
problem I was dealing with was that verizon.net would either accept
mails immediately or defer them until the MTA expired them.  

With a limit of 5 recipients, I get good delivery to all of the big
mail sites except yahoo.com.  They will defer even single-recipient
list priority mails during prime time, but deliver them within 24 hours.  

Read your MTA logs in addition to reading the bounce messages.  I have
had problems where the bounce message said one thing but the MTA log
said something quite different.

Hank

From seeleman at gse.upenn.edu  Mon Apr  7 20:03:01 2008
From: seeleman at gse.upenn.edu (Todd Seeleman)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 14:03:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Clearing out stored attachments
Message-ID: <F787D9D71B5B194B9048CF6B5445060801D856500F@MAILBOX.exchange.upenn.edu>

Greetings,

   I'm currently running mailman-2.1.9 on a Tru64/Alpha system.  I have archiving turned off for all the lists however I notice a large number of attachments stored in
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/<listname>.  How can I manage and control the size & number of these attachments so they don't continue to consume more and more disk space?

Todd

****************************************************************************
 Todd Seeleman, Systems Analyst
 Penn Graduate School of Education
 3440 Market Street, Rm 477        email: seeleman at gse.upenn.edu
 Philadelphia, PA. 19104-3325      phone: 215-573-8378
****************************************************************************



From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr  7 21:35:13 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 12:35:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Clearing out stored attachments
In-Reply-To: <F787D9D71B5B194B9048CF6B5445060801D856500F@MAILBOX.exchange.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804071235130218ff51d487@msapiro>

Todd Seeleman wrote:
>
>   I'm currently running mailman-2.1.9 on a Tru64/Alpha system.  I have archiving turned off for all the lists however I notice a large number of attachments stored in
>/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/<listname>.  How can I manage and control the size & number of these attachments so they don't continue to consume more and more disk space?


Since archiving is off, these attachments are being scrubbed and stored
either from all messages if the list's scrub_nondigest is Yes, or from
the plain text format digest.

The options available are:

- Use content filtering to remove the attachments before messages are
sent, or

- Do not scrub_nondigest, set digestable to No and change any current
digest subscribers to regular, or

- Set up a cron to go through archives/private/*/attachments/ and
delete any directories older than x.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr  7 22:20:19 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 13:20:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman  sends only to listadmins
In-Reply-To: <00ba01c898ab$b4aceb40$6602a8c0@fettebeute>
Message-ID: <PC176020080407132019079611284c2f@msapiro>

combie wrote:
>
>Bad (the Problem)
>the command "newlist" prints no aliases
>Normal user dont recive any posted messages or archives or digest
>only listadmins recive the mails
>
>
>dirty hack:
>i have put all members into the adminlist
>
>Already checked:
>read http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp
>creating aliases in /etc/aliases  then "newaliases" an restart exim and 
>mailman


The normal setup with Exim doesn't use aliases. If it is set up
according to the documents referred to in
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.019.htp>,
you will have

MTA = None

in mm_cfg.py, and no aliases will be generated or used. In any case,
posts are being delivered to lists (incoming) and archived, so
delivery to Mailman is working.

I don't understand the rest of your problem at all. Normal posts are
delivered to list members, and not to list owner or moderator.
Addresses in the owner or moderator lists do not receive outgoing
posts unless they are also list members.

Since posts are reaching the archives, they are being accepted by the
list and should be delivered to list members provided the members are
regular members with delivery enabled and OutgoingRunner is processing
the out/ queue.

What's in Mailman's smtp, smtp-failure and bounce logs?

What's in Mailman's out/ queue?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr  8 00:03:37 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 15:03:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Phantom moderation pending requests & heldmsg
	files
In-Reply-To: <2C8FD044-614D-4587-991F-B7EC36AE716C@bowdoin.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804071503370734e92ecb03@msapiro>

Chris Waltham wrote:

>A couple of weeks ago our Mailman 2.0 server crashed (a physical  
>problem, it wasn't Mailman's fault!) and we had to upgrade to 2.1 in a  
>real hurry. As a result, I had to copy the entire ~mailman/data  
>directory... which may not have been such a good idea:
>
>[mailman at list ~/data]$ ls -al | wc -l
>40054
>
>There are a _lot_ of files prefixed with "heldmsg-" in the data  
>directory, as you can see. There are entries all the way back to 2005,  
>in fact! I realize that I'm going to have to deal with all those files  
>at some stage, but I currently have another problem.


Depending on what else you did, these files may now be orphans, but see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.074.htp>.


>A user  
>administers a list called "ams-announce", and they are receiving  
>emails with the subject "The AMS-announce at list.bowdoin.edu mailing  
>list has 31 request(s) waiting for your consideration". However, when  
>they or I go to the admin interface, there are no pending requests.  
>The user has been getting the same message for more than a week now,  
>always with the same amount (31) of pending messages but there are  
>never actually any messages there for the admin to discard.
>
>Oddly, there are no files prefixed with "heldmsg-ams-announce" in the / 
>home/mailman/data directory, however I did grep for the string "ams- 
>announce" in _all_ heldmsg files and there are many matches --  
>virtually all of it looks like spam. I suppose, then, that I have two  
>questions:
>
>* how can I print how many moderation requests a list has pending, and  
>is there a way to flush the pending requests from the command-line?  
>(The FAQ entries deal with doing it via the web interface, before  
>2.1.5's feature of "discard all messages")
>* can I print a list of what lists have what files pending in the  
>format of heldmsg-$listname-$msgID, so that I can cross-reference the  
>files I have on the filesystem (many of which are really old) with  
>what the lists think need to be delievered?


First of all, the bogus '31 ams-announce moderator request(s)' email is
almost certainly not coming from your current Mailman 2.1.9
installation. I have never seen a report of a case like this where the
email was not coming from some old/backup/test/whatever installation
whose cron/checkdbs was still being run.

Second, the '31' has nothing to do with data/heldmsg-* files. These
files have the messages themselves, but not the pending request
information. The data for the 'moderator request(s)' email come from
the lists/listname/request.pck file. If you want to see what's there,
you can dump it with bin/dumpdb, and you can clear it by simply
removing the file, although if you dump it first, I think you'll see
it's devoid of requests just like the admindb interface says.

As far as getting a list of what messages are pending for each list in
the form heldmsg-$listname-$msgID is concerned, there's nothing that
will give you that in a nice list, but if you go to a specific list's
request.pck file and dump it with bin/dumpdb, you'll see one entry like

'version': (0, 1)

and for each held message, entries like

id: (1, (time, sender, subject, reason, filename, msgdata))

and entries with 2 or 3 as the first item of the value which are held
subscribe and unsubscribe requests.

In the held message entries, the key, id, is the number you call
$msgID; time is the time in seconds that the message was held; sender,
subject and reason are self explanitory; filename is the name of the
held message file and msgdata is a dictionary of the message's
metadata at the time it was held.

Note that if you have any request.db files, these are residue from your
prior installation. I don't know if you did an actual upgrade of your
2.0 installation to 2.1.9, but if you did, the data from the
request,db files should have been automatically migrated to the
request.pck files by bin/update as part of the 2.1.9 install. If that
isn't what happened, then I'm not sure what you're faced with in terms
of recovering any held messages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ilovespam at bellsouth.net  Tue Apr  8 02:40:00 2008
From: ilovespam at bellsouth.net (ilovespam at bellsouth.net)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 19:40:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-accept incoming messages? (how?)
Message-ID: <20080408004016.6DD4C1E4013@bag.python.org>

Is there a way for a subscribed user to have their messages accepted to the
list without being moderated by default?   In short, I want any new user
once subscribed to be able to send a message to the list and have it
received instead of having ot go in the admin area and turn off modeation
flags and accept the delivery of the message.

Thanks!


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr  8 02:47:33 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 17:47:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-accept incoming messages? (how?)
In-Reply-To: <20080408004016.6DD4C1E4013@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804071747330578749cf0c3@msapiro>

<ilovespam at bellsouth.net> wrote:

>Is there a way for a subscribed user to have their messages accepted to the
>list without being moderated by default?   In short, I want any new user
>once subscribed to be able to send a message to the list and have it
>received instead of having ot go in the admin area and turn off modeation
>flags and accept the delivery of the message.


Go to the list admin Privacy options...->Sender filters page and set
default_member_Moderation to No.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From matthias at pg-seefeld.de  Tue Apr  8 10:49:58 2008
From: matthias at pg-seefeld.de (Matthias Rank)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 10:49:58 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not all subscribers receive emails
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008040109292806405cea211c@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008040109292806405cea211c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47FB31B6.20907@pg-seefeld.de>

I could temporarily solve the problem by simply restarting my server. 
Then, for about one whole week, everything went perfectly. But yesterday 
the same problem appeared again. It is not a real solution for me to 
restart my server weekly so does anybody have an idea?
@Mark: Thanks, but SMTP_MAX_RCPTS is already set to 10

Mark Sapiro schrieb:
> Matthias Rank wrote:
>
>   
>> Hi everybody.
>> I have a problem with Mailman. When I send an email to a list this won't 
>> be any problem for very little lists up to a size of about 15 
>> subscribers. But if the list grows there are more and more people who 
>> don't receive emails and produce bounces like "testlist: a at b.de bounce 
>> score: 1.0" or "testlist: a at b.de has stale bounce info, resetting". The 
>> amazing is that there is no obvious system which persons do not receive 
>> emails, especially these are not always the same people and they are 
>> member of different email providers. Furthermore there are some (few) 
>> people who do hardly receive any email sent with Mailman although their 
>> email-accounts are okay.
>> I'm using plesk, so any other mta than qmail won't work, if this might 
>> be the problem.
>> I'm very confused and would be very glad about help.
>>     
>
>
> Some MTA in the delivery chain is not accepting more that 15 (?)
> recipients per message. Presumably, this is the qmail that Mailman is
> talking to. If it is your qmail, you may be able to adjust it to
> accept more recipients, or you can set
>
> SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 10
>
> in mm_cfg.py to tell Mailman to never send to more than 10 recipients
> per SMTP transaction.
>
> Once you do this, I think the bulk of your bounces will go away. Then
> you can investigate any remaining non-receipt problems.
>
>   


From greenspot at greenspot.fi  Tue Apr  8 12:20:50 2008
From: greenspot at greenspot.fi (Jussi Hirvi)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 13:20:50 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing mm_cfg.py for existing lists
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080407075548032893811bb8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C42121B2.2936%greenspot@greenspot.fi>

Hi,

This problem is now solved, I think...

Mark Sapiro (mark at msapiro.net) kirjoitteli (7.4.2008 17:55):
> SMTP_MAX_RCPTS is a setting that affects all SMTP delivery. It is not a
> list setting. Setting it in mm_cfg.py and restarting Mailman is all
> that is required.

Ok, that's good to know for sure!

> Why do you think it isn't effective?

After restarting Mailman I still got "Too many recipients" errors in the
Sendmail log (maillog).

Now I checked again, and there are still "Too many recipients" errors, but
when I check later entries, I find out that the Hotmail emails have finally
been sent. 

I didn't do any systematic checking, but on the basis of a small sample, it
seems that everything works OK!!

> Note that if you mis spell SMTP_MAX_RCPTS in your mm_cfg.py setting, it
> won't work and there will be no complaint.

That sure is easy to misspell - btw, "misspell" is one word, not two. :-D

Hank van Cleef (vancleef at lostwells.net) kirjoitteli (7.4.2008 18:42):
> I think you will have to set the limit lower than 9.  My list runs
> with 
> SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 5

Thanks Hank,

We will let it be 9 now for a while - so far the list admins haven't
complained. :-) If there will be problems again, I will lower the value, as
you suggested. 

I'm glad I found this mailing list, it already proved helpful. Thanks all!

- Jussi

--
Jussi Hirvi * Green Spot
Topeliuksenkatu 15 C * 00250 Helsinki * Finland
Tel. & fax +358 9 493 981 * Mobile +358 40 771 2098 (only sms)
jussi.hirvi at greenspot.fi * http://www.greenspot.fi


From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Tue Apr  8 13:35:19 2008
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 06:35:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing mm_cfg.py for existing lists
In-Reply-To: <C42121B2.2936%greenspot@greenspot.fi>
Message-ID: <C420C2A7.572C8%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 4/8/08 5:20 AM, Jussi Hirvi at greenspot at greenspot.fi wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> This problem is now solved, I think...
> 
> Mark Sapiro (mark at msapiro.net) kirjoitteli (7.4.2008 17:55):
>> SMTP_MAX_RCPTS is a setting that affects all SMTP delivery. It is not a
>> list setting. Setting it in mm_cfg.py and restarting Mailman is all
>> that is required.
> 
> Ok, that's good to know for sure!
> 
>> Why do you think it isn't effective?
> 
> After restarting Mailman I still got "Too many recipients" errors in the
> Sendmail log (maillog).
> 
> Now I checked again, and there are still "Too many recipients" errors, but
> when I check later entries, I find out that the Hotmail emails have finally
> been sent. 

The way you phrased that makes it sound like outgoing messages were merely
being deferred for the "too many recipients" error and not bounced. If
that's true, I hope you realize that changing the setting in Mailman only
affects messages given to sendmail after you made the change. Anything
already in sendmail's outgoing queue from before you made the change is not
affected by the change as Mailman is no further involvement with the message
at that point.

-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/



From greenspot at greenspot.fi  Tue Apr  8 13:46:45 2008
From: greenspot at greenspot.fi (Jussi Hirvi)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 14:46:45 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing mm_cfg.py for existing lists
In-Reply-To: <C420C2A7.572C8%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <C42135D5.2943%greenspot@greenspot.fi>

Larry Stone (lstone19 at stonejongleux.com) kirjoitteli (8.4.2008 14:35):
> The way you phrased that makes it sound like outgoing messages were merely
> being deferred for the "too many recipients" error and not bounced.

Yes, exactly so. 

> If
> that's true, I hope you realize that changing the setting in Mailman only
> affects messages given to sendmail after you made the change. Anything
> already in sendmail's outgoing queue from before you made the change is not
> affected by the change as Mailman is no further involvement with the message
> at that point.

Yes, I realize that.

- Jussi

--
Jussi Hirvi * Green Spot
Topeliuksenkatu 15 C * 00250 Helsinki * Finland
Tel. & fax +358 9 493 981 * Mobile +358 40 771 2098 (only sms)
jussi.hirvi at greenspot.fi * http://www.greenspot.fi


From samarta at ci.uc.pt  Tue Apr  8 14:56:14 2008
From: samarta at ci.uc.pt (=?UTF-8?B?Sm/Ci2FvIFPDoSBNYXJ0YQ==?=)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 13:56:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounces and disk quota exceeded
Message-ID: <47FB6B6E.1040907@ci.uc.pt>

Greetings,


Some of my list admins want to be able to know if  any member of their 
lists are with disk quota exceeded.

I am sending a message to a test list and I have created a user in our 
system with a very small disk quota.
I know that this user has already his disk quota exceeded and I've 
verified that sending "him" a message directly from my personal email 
address. (I've received a message from my mbx server with the usual 
notification "undelivered mail returned to sender"

I?ve set the parameter bounce_score_threshold to 0.5 and even now that 
member's subscription is not disabled and I, as the list owner, have not 
received any bounce notification.

Can anyone tell me what is the issue, please ?



===============================|===================================

= Joao Sa Marta                |          Email: samarta at ci.uc.pt =

= Centro de Informatica        |        Tel: 239 853178 (directo) =

= da Universidade de           |          Tel: 239 853170 (Geral) =

= Coimbra                      |                  Fax: 239 853189 =

= Apartado 3080                | http://www.uc.pt/pessoal/samarta =

= 3001-401 Coimbra             |                                  =

===============================|===================================


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr  8 16:59:59 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 07:59:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounces and disk quota exceeded
In-Reply-To: <47FB6B6E.1040907@ci.uc.pt>
References: <47FB6B6E.1040907@ci.uc.pt>
Message-ID: <47FB886F.5060806@msapiro.net>

Jo?o S? Marta wrote:
> 
> I am sending a message to a test list and I have created a user in our 
> system with a very small disk quota.
> I know that this user has already his disk quota exceeded and I've 
> verified that sending "him" a message directly from my personal email 
> address. (I've received a message from my mbx server with the usual 
> notification "undelivered mail returned to sender"
> 
> I?ve set the parameter bounce_score_threshold to 0.5 and even now that 
> member's subscription is not disabled and I, as the list owner, have not 
> received any bounce notification.
> 
> Can anyone tell me what is the issue, please ?

Do you have bounce_processing and all three bounce notifications set to Yes?

What's in Mailman's bounce and smtp-failure logs after you send to this 
test list?

Does mail to the list-bounces address get properly delivered to Mailman? 
What happens if you send an ordinary message to the list-bounces address?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr  8 17:06:29 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 08:06:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not all subscribers receive emails
In-Reply-To: <47FB31B6.20907@pg-seefeld.de>
Message-ID: <PC17602008040808062903901a52a523@msapiro>

Matthias Rank wrote:

>I could temporarily solve the problem by simply restarting my server. 
>Then, for about one whole week, everything went perfectly. But yesterday 
>the same problem appeared again. It is not a real solution for me to 
>restart my server weekly so does anybody have an idea?


This does not seem to be a Mailman issue. It seems more likely to be
something to do with your MTA. You need to go over your MTA logs and
determine what messages are bouncing and why?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ilovespam at bellsouth.net  Tue Apr  8 17:27:12 2008
From: ilovespam at bellsouth.net (ilovespam at bellsouth.net)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 10:27:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe footer
Message-ID: <20080408152721.A32BB1E4029@bag.python.org>

How do you insert a line in the footer to include a direct link for
unsubscribing similar to the one at the bottom of this list's emails?

Thanks


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr  8 18:21:13 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:21:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe footer
In-Reply-To: <20080408152721.A32BB1E4029@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804080921130046efa2b51b@msapiro>

<ilovespam at bellsouth.net> wrote:

>How do you insert a line in the footer to include a direct link for
>unsubscribing similar to the one at the bottom of this list's emails?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.015.htp>
regarding personalization. Once the list's personalize attribute is
"Yes", you can put

Unsubscribe: %(user_optionsurl)s

in msg_footer.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cwaltham at bowdoin.edu  Tue Apr  8 18:34:53 2008
From: cwaltham at bowdoin.edu (Chris Waltham)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 12:34:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Phantom moderation pending requests & heldmsg
	files
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200804071503370734e92ecb03@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200804071503370734e92ecb03@msapiro>
Message-ID: <0E206164-F7D0-4E15-A10D-75DFAEE90136@bowdoin.edu>

On Apr 7, 2008, at 6:03 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Chris Waltham wrote:
>
>> A couple of weeks ago our Mailman 2.0 server crashed (a physical
>> problem, it wasn't Mailman's fault!) and we had to upgrade to 2.1  
>> in a
>> real hurry. As a result, I had to copy the entire ~mailman/data
>> directory... which may not have been such a good idea:
>>
>> [mailman at list ~/data]$ ls -al | wc -l
>> 40054
>>
>> There are a _lot_ of files prefixed with "heldmsg-" in the data
>> directory, as you can see. There are entries all the way back to  
>> 2005,
>> in fact! I realize that I'm going to have to deal with all those  
>> files
>> at some stage, but I currently have another problem.
>
>
> Depending on what else you did, these files may now be orphans, but  
> see
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&file=faq04.074.htp>.

Thanks Mark, I'll check that out.

>> A user
>> administers a list called "ams-announce", and they are receiving
>> emails with the subject "The AMS-announce at list.bowdoin.edu mailing
>> list has 31 request(s) waiting for your consideration". However, when
>> they or I go to the admin interface, there are no pending requests.
>> The user has been getting the same message for more than a week now,
>> always with the same amount (31) of pending messages but there are
>> never actually any messages there for the admin to discard.
>>
>> Oddly, there are no files prefixed with "heldmsg-ams-announce" in  
>> the /
>> home/mailman/data directory, however I did grep for the string "ams-
>> announce" in _all_ heldmsg files and there are many matches --
>> virtually all of it looks like spam. I suppose, then, that I have two
>> questions:
>>
>> * how can I print how many moderation requests a list has pending,  
>> and
>> is there a way to flush the pending requests from the command-line?
>> (The FAQ entries deal with doing it via the web interface, before
>> 2.1.5's feature of "discard all messages")
>> * can I print a list of what lists have what files pending in the
>> format of heldmsg-$listname-$msgID, so that I can cross-reference the
>> files I have on the filesystem (many of which are really old) with
>> what the lists think need to be delievered?
>
>
> First of all, the bogus '31 ams-announce moderator request(s)' email  
> is
> almost certainly not coming from your current Mailman 2.1.9
> installation. I have never seen a report of a case like this where the
> email was not coming from some old/backup/test/whatever installation
> whose cron/checkdbs was still being run.

Guess what? This report also fails your criteria... it was the old  
server. :-( I thought I removed the NFS mount for mailman, but it was  
in the automounter so the cron job could still successfully run!  
That'll teach me for not just removing the user. And because the old  
server had the same name as the new server and I wasn't a list admin,  
I couldn't compare headers. Color me embarrassed...

> Second, the '31' has nothing to do with data/heldmsg-* files. These
> files have the messages themselves, but not the pending request
> information. The data for the 'moderator request(s)' email come from
> the lists/listname/request.pck file. If you want to see what's there,
> you can dump it with bin/dumpdb, and you can clear it by simply
> removing the file, although if you dump it first, I think you'll see
> it's devoid of requests just like the admindb interface says.

Yep, I bet it is:

[mailman at list ~/lists/ams-announce]$ dumpdb request.pck
[----- start pickle file -----]
<----- start object 1 ----->
{'version': (0, 1)}
[----- end pickle file -----]

Whereas if I run the "dumpdb" command on a list I know has outstanding  
requests, I see the request itself. Guess I know how this works, now!

> As far as getting a list of what messages are pending for each list in
> the form heldmsg-$listname-$msgID is concerned, there's nothing that
> will give you that in a nice list, but if you go to a specific list's
> request.pck file and dump it with bin/dumpdb, you'll see one entry  
> like
>
> 'version': (0, 1)
>
> and for each held message, entries like
>
> id: (1, (time, sender, subject, reason, filename, msgdata))
>
> and entries with 2 or 3 as the first item of the value which are held
> subscribe and unsubscribe requests.
>
> In the held message entries, the key, id, is the number you call
> $msgID; time is the time in seconds that the message was held; sender,
> subject and reason are self explanitory; filename is the name of the
> held message file and msgdata is a dictionary of the message's
> metadata at the time it was held.
>
> Note that if you have any request.db files, these are residue from  
> your
> prior installation. I don't know if you did an actual upgrade of your
> 2.0 installation to 2.1.9, but if you did, the data from the
> request,db files should have been automatically migrated to the
> request.pck files by bin/update as part of the 2.1.9 install. If that
> isn't what happened, then I'm not sure what you're faced with in terms
> of recovering any held messages.

With the exception of 3-4 lists (out of 800+), I let the "make update"  
command run so I presume that actually upgraded the lists. I think I  
might just delete the holdmsg files en masse, I can't see why  
(organizationally) I should need to keep them. I think I did remove  
pending_requests.db (or whatever it's called) when I did the upgrade,  
but I think it was empty anyway.


Chris

>
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>




From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr  8 19:24:15 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 10:24:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Phantom moderation pending requests & heldmsg
	files
In-Reply-To: <0E206164-F7D0-4E15-A10D-75DFAEE90136@bowdoin.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020080408102415028138039d28@msapiro>

Chris Waltham wrote:
>
>With the exception of 3-4 lists (out of 800+), I let the "make update"  
>command run so I presume that actually upgraded the lists. I think I  
>might just delete the holdmsg files en masse, I can't see why  
>(organizationally) I should need to keep them.


When you delete these files, it is better to use bin/discard as
discussed in
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.074.htp>
rather than just rm. This is because bin/discard actually removes the
held message from the requests.pck file (see below). However, if the
heldmsg-* file is an orphan, it won't be removed by bin/discard, so
you need to run bin/discard first and then rm any files left.

The problem with just removing the heldmsg-* file is if there are a
large number of held messages for a single list, the admindb CGI can
time out trying to create the held messages page, and just removing
the heldmsg-* files without also removing the request.pck entries
won't cure this time out.


>I think I did remove  
>pending_requests.db (or whatever it's called) when I did the upgrade,  
>but I think it was empty anyway.


You may be thinking of the global data/pending.db file, but this is
different. The items in that file if any were moved to the list
specific pending.pck file, and they are the confirmation tokens and
associated data for actions waiting confirmation, they are not the
actions waiting moderator approval which were in requests.db, now
requests.pck.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at list.org  Wed Apr  9 04:10:58 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 22:10:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ANNOUNCE: GNU Mailman 3.0a1 (Leave That Thing Alone)
Message-ID: <9F78B9C5-2B6A-409D-8120-D94D5B8D4F49@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

After far too long, I'm finally happy to announce the availability of  
GNU Mailman version 3.0 alpha 1, code name "Leave That Thing Alone".

Hopefully, I needn't point out that this version is not suitable for  
production.  Instead, I'm making it available to provide an early  
snapshot of where Mailman 3 is going, and to give interested  
developers, users and integrators something real to play with.  I am  
looking forward to your feedback and contributions, and I hope you  
will at least download the package and give what works a try.

For now, I would prefer if all discussion about 3.0a1 were held on the  
mailman-developers mailing list.  Please don't submit bug reports to  
SourceForge; it's far too early for that.  Ideally, you'll be  
interested enough to create your own branches and push them to  
Launchpad for all of us to look at.

For detailed information on 3.0a1, please read docs/ALPHA.txt.  This  
will explain what works and what doesn't, how to run the test suite  
and how to actually create, populate, and deliver to some mailing  
lists.  Much does not yet work, but everything that does work is very  
well documented using Python's doctest framework.

Please note that Python 2.5 is required, but a C compiler is no longer  
needed.  You will need some third party packages, but everything you  
need is available in the Python Cheeseshop.

You can download both the tarball and egg file for 3.0a1 from the  
Cheeseshop as well:

     http://pypi.python.org/pypi/mailman/3.0.0a1

You'll probably want the source tarball.

I hope you will find this first snapshot useful and encouraging.   
Please participate!

Enjoy,
- -Barry

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From zszalbot at gmail.com  Wed Apr  9 08:26:40 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 08:26:40 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] syncing recipients from an sql database / managing
	bounces
Message-ID: <94136a2c0804082326g479dac71n51e33299a1402ddc@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

We have an sql database of users who we would like to contact from
time to time. So far we have been doing it outside of mailman realm. I
would like to sync the sql user database to a mailing list and then
send them a newsletter. The primary reason for this is that manual
bounce management is quite a tedious process.

Is there a way to sync the database in such a way as to only update
records rather than delete all users from mailman and import them from
scratch? And what if a given record has been deleted in the sql
database? Will it also be deleted from mailman user database upon
importing/syncing?

Many thanks!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

From samarta at ci.uc.pt  Wed Apr  9 10:20:09 2008
From: samarta at ci.uc.pt (=?UTF-8?B?Sm/Ci2FvIFPDoSBNYXJ0YQ==?=)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 09:20:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounces and disk quota exceeded
In-Reply-To: <47FB886F.5060806@msapiro.net>
References: <47FB6B6E.1040907@ci.uc.pt> <47FB886F.5060806@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <47FC7C39.6040201@ci.uc.pt>

Greetings,

Thanks for your tips.

Mailman was working well. The problem was mine.

I had not read the Mailman manual -->"Only one bounce per day counts 
against a member's score, ..."

Today that member was disabled.

Regarding to the bounce feature:
 where can I get more detailed information, sepecifically /"Your 
Membership Is Disabled/ warnings "

If a member as disk quota exceeded, how can he receive those warnings ?

Thanks for your help.
   Joao Sa Marta


> Jo?o S? Marta wrote:
>>
>> I am sending a message to a test list and I have created a user in 
>> our system with a very small disk quota.
>> I know that this user has already his disk quota exceeded and I've 
>> verified that sending "him" a message directly from my personal email 
>> address. (I've received a message from my mbx server with the usual 
>> notification "undelivered mail returned to sender"
>>
>> I?ve set the parameter bounce_score_threshold to 0.5 and even now 
>> that member's subscription is not disabled and I, as the list owner, 
>> have not received any bounce notification.
>>
>> Can anyone tell me what is the issue, please ?
> Do you have bounce_processing and all three bounce notifications set 
> to Yes?
>
> What's in Mailman's bounce and smtp-failure logs after you send to 
> this test list?
>
> Does mail to the list-bounces address get properly delivered to 
> Mailman? What happens if you send an ordinary message to the 
> list-bounces address?
>


-- 

===============================|===================================

= Joao Sa Marta                |          Email: samarta at ci.uc.pt =

= Centro de Informatica        |        Tel: 239 853178 (directo) =

= da Universidade de           |          Tel: 239 853170 (Geral) =

= Coimbra                      |                  Fax: 239 853189 =

= Apartado 3080                | http://www.uc.pt/pessoal/samarta =

= 3001-401 Coimbra             |                                  =

===============================|===================================


From samarta at ci.uc.pt  Wed Apr  9 10:32:36 2008
From: samarta at ci.uc.pt (=?UTF-8?B?Sm/Ci2FvIFPDoSBNYXJ0YQ==?=)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 09:32:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] syncing recipients from an sql database /
 managing bounces
In-Reply-To: <94136a2c0804082326g479dac71n51e33299a1402ddc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <94136a2c0804082326g479dac71n51e33299a1402ddc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47FC7F24.8020203@ci.uc.pt>

Hi

Zbigniew Szalbot escreveu:
> Hello,
>
> We have an sql database of users who we would like to contact from
> time to time. So far we have been doing it outside of mailman realm. I
> would like to sync the sql user database to a mailing list and then
> send them a newsletter. The primary reason for this is that manual
> bounce management is quite a tedious process.
>
> Is there a way to sync the database in such a way as to only update
> records rather than delete all users from mailman and import them from
> scratch?
Yes, using /home/mailman/bin/sync_members


>  And what if a given record has been deleted in the sql
> database? Will it also be deleted from mailman user database upon
> importing/syncing?
>   

Yes.

I use a script to sync a lot of my lists

#!/bin/bash
#script to sync a mailing list named mailing_list
Data=`/bin/date +"%Y_%m_%d %T"`
day=`/bin/date +"%Y_%m_%d"`
hour=`/bin/date +"%H%M"`

LOGFILE="/home/admin/scripts_mailing_lists/$day""_mailing_list_sync.log"
nomefich="/home/admin/scripts_mailing_lists/$day""_mailing_list.log"
your_mysql_querie_goes here >$nomefich
#only sync if data were obtained to prevent conectivity losses because 
in our case the mysql server
# is a remote server
if [ `cat $nomefich | wc -l` > 0 ]; then
    /home/mailman/bin/sync_members -w=no -g=no -a=no -f $nomefich 
mailing_list >$LOGFILE
fi

> Many thanks!
>
>   


-- 

===============================|===================================

= Joao Sa Marta                |          Email: samarta at ci.uc.pt =

= Centro de Informatica        |        Tel: 239 853178 (directo) =

= da Universidade de           |          Tel: 239 853170 (Geral) =

= Coimbra                      |                  Fax: 239 853189 =

= Apartado 3080                | http://www.uc.pt/pessoal/samarta =

= 3001-401 Coimbra             |                                  =

===============================|===================================


From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Wed Apr  9 13:30:35 2008
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 06:30:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounces and disk quota exceeded
In-Reply-To: <47FC7C39.6040201@ci.uc.pt>
Message-ID: <C422130B.57403%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 4/9/08 3:20 AM, Jo?ao S?? Marta at samarta at ci.uc.pt wrote:

> Regarding to 
> the bounce feature:
 where can I get more detailed information, sepecifically
> /"Your 
Membership Is Disabled/ warnings "

If a member as disk quota
> exceeded, how can he receive those warnings ?

1) The warning messages are sent periodically (weekly) for some period
before the member is completely removed. It is likely that at some period
that time, the member will delete some stuff and be back under quota.

2) The warning might be small enough to be received (keep the user under
quota) even though the list message(s) were big enough to put him over quota
(e.g. member has 10,000 bytes available; 100,000 byte list message is
rejected but 1,000 byte "you are disabled" message is accepted).

-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/



From johnhkennedy at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  9 23:54:28 2008
From: johnhkennedy at yahoo.com (John Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 14:54:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Am I correct that mailman will work with a remote
	SmartHost?
Message-ID: <727370.34896.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Am I correct believing  that mailman will work with a remote  
SmartHost?        Thru my ISP? 

I'm a newbie and I want to avoid setting up a mail server on my machine if possible.  I believe that mailman will work with a SmartHost but I am unsure.  I am using Kubuntu linux.

If someone could advise me yes or no, 
I can probably handle the setup from there.

Thanks in advance.

John

 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Apr 10 04:50:47 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 21:50:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Am I correct that mailman will work with a
 remote SmartHost?
In-Reply-To: <727370.34896.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <727370.34896.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c42330797c3f@[192.168.1.199]>

On 4/9/08, John Kennedy wrote:

>  Am I correct believing  that mailman will work with a remote
>  SmartHost?        Thru my ISP?

Depending on how the smarthost is configured, yes.

If they require that you do some sort of authentication, I think 
that's beyond what you can do with the stock version of Mailman and 
you may need to make some source code modifications, or find an 
alternative way to achieve the same goal.

If they authenticate you by your IP address, you should be fine.

>  I'm a newbie and I want to avoid setting up a mail server on my machine
>  if possible.  I believe that mailman will work with a SmartHost but I
>  am unsure.  I am using Kubuntu linux.

Keep in mind that you still need to have some way to get the mail 
*into* Mailman, and you need some way to update the aliases that tell 
the MTA what mailing lists exist and what command should be run as a 
result.

If you're not going to run a local MTA on your box, you need to find 
alternative ways to do all these things.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com  Thu Apr 10 21:24:29 2008
From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (billc)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:24:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Am I correct that mailman will work with a
 remote SmartHost?
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c42330797c3f@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <727370.34896.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<p06240802c42330797c3f@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <a0623098bc42418f502bc@[192.168.33.3]>

At 9:50 PM -0500 4/9/08, Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>Keep in mind that you still need to have some way to get the mail
>*into* Mailman, and you need some way to update the aliases that tell
>the MTA what mailing lists exist and what command should be run as a
>result.

I set mine up last month and used Fetchmail to pull the messages from 
remote mailboxes and dump them into Mailman.  It's working great.

I set up Postfix on the host machine but turned off SMTP access from 
anything but localhost.  I suspect I could probably eliminate Postfix 
entirely and simply relay from Mailman to a smarthost, but I haven't 
gotten to that yet.


-- 
Bill Christensen
<http://greenbuilder.com/contact/>

Green Building Professionals Directory: <http://directory.greenbuilder.com>
Sustainable Building Calendar: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/>
Green Real Estate: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/>
Straw Bale Registry: <http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/>
Books/videos/software: <http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/>

From fan.d.liu at gmail.com  Fri Apr 11 07:11:54 2008
From: fan.d.liu at gmail.com (Fan Liu)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 13:11:54 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change an exist mailing list's name?
Message-ID: <20080411051154.GC2585@amber.pmo.ac.cn>

Dear list,

How to change an exist mailing list's name?  While in the administrative page, I
can only change it by case.

Best regards,
Fan
-- 
Fan Liu
Purple Mountain Observatory
2# West Beijing Road, Nanjing, China
Email: fanliu at pmo.ac.cn
Homepage: http://sfig.pmo.ac.cn/~fliu/

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 11 19:02:23 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:02:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change an exist mailing list's name?
In-Reply-To: <20080411051154.GC2585@amber.pmo.ac.cn>
Message-ID: <PC17602008041110022309066f1af201@msapiro>

Fan Liu wrote:
>
>How to change an exist mailing list's name?  While in the administrative page, I
>can only change it by case.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.070.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From uli at combie.de  Fri Apr 11 20:18:32 2008
From: uli at combie.de (combie)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 20:18:32 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman  sends only to listadmins
Message-ID: <017d01c89c00$73aa41d0$6602a8c0@fettebeute>

>> The normal setup with Exim doesn't use aliases.
OK!

>> Normal posts are delivered to list members
But my mailman does not so.
Only the daily and monthly Digests are send to all users.

>>What's in Mailman's smtp, smtp-failure and bounce logs?
mailman/log/error  only  few old Meassages like:
Apr 02 14:05:01 2008 admin(24560): /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py:907:
DeprecationWarning: raising a string exception is deprecated
  raise Errors.MMSubscribeNeedsConfirmation

mailman/log/smtp
There are at this time  3 normal Members in the List and  i send a mail to
the list,  it says:
Apr 10 12:53:50 2008 (13580)
<mailman.1.1207824827.13578.combie.de-liste at combie.de> smtp to
combie.de-liste for 1 recips, completed in 0.173 seconds

It sends only the: "Your message entitled xxxxx was successfully received by
the Combie.de-Liste mailing list.

mailman/log/smtp-failure
is empty

>> bounce logs?
there is no mailman bounce log

mailman/qfiles/bounces -> is empty
mailman/qfiles/out  -> is empty
mailman/qfiles/bad  -> 4 old Files
mailman/qfiles/archive  -> is empty
mailman/qfiles/bounces  -> is empty


 >>Since posts are reaching the archives, they are being accepted by the
list
YES!
All Posts are in the archive, but not delivered to the "normal" Listmembers

 >> and should be delivered to list members provided the members are regular
members with delivery enabled and OutgoingRunner is processing the out/
queue.
 All 8 qrunners are active incl. the OutgoingRunner

 >>Normal posts are delivered to list members
No!! That is my Problem!


>> Addresses in the owner or moderator lists do not receive outgoing posts
>> unless they are also list members.
YES!
If i put the "normal" listusers in the "The list administrator email
addresses. Multiple administrator addresses, each on separate line is"
Field, then they recive the Mails.


Please check it:  https://combie.de/mailman/listinfo/combie.de-liste
I raise you to a Listadmin

( Please excuse my bad English)


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 11 20:27:19 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:27:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman  sends only to listadmins
In-Reply-To: <017d01c89c00$73aa41d0$6602a8c0@fettebeute>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804111127190218ac32814d@msapiro>

combie wrote:
>
>mailman/log/smtp
>There are at this time  3 normal Members in the List and  i send a mail to
>the list,  it says:
>Apr 10 12:53:50 2008 (13580)
><mailman.1.1207824827.13578.combie.de-liste at combie.de> smtp to
>combie.de-liste for 1 recips, completed in 0.173 seconds


Go to the web admin Membership Management... -> Membership List page.
What is in the 'nomail' and 'digest' columns for each of the three
members?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From uli at combie.de  Sat Apr 12 01:01:16 2008
From: uli at combie.de (combie)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 01:01:16 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman  sends only to listadmins
Message-ID: <01eb01c89c27$f2f80fe0$6602a8c0@fettebeute>

>>Go to the web admin Membership Management... -> Membership List page.
>>What is in the 'nomail' and 'digest' columns for each of the three
>>members?
nomail: all fields empty
digest: all checked

You are now an Admin at my list....



From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 12 01:47:32 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:47:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman  sends only to listadmins
In-Reply-To: <01eb01c89c27$f2f80fe0$6602a8c0@fettebeute>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804111647320484329d07c4@msapiro>

combie wrote:

>>>Go to the web admin Membership Management... -> Membership List page.
>>>What is in the 'nomail' and 'digest' columns for each of the three
>>>members?
>nomail: all fields empty
>digest: all checked


This is your problem. All your list members are receiving digests
rather than individual messages, and there probably haven't been any
digests sent.

If you go to the web admin Digest options page, set send_digest_now to
Yes and click "Submit Your Changes", the members will all receive
their digests.

If you don't want members to receive digests rather than messages by
default, set digest_is_default to Regular. Also look at the settings
for digest_size_threshhold and digest_send_periodic.


>You are now an Admin at my list....


Yes, I see you made me an owner and subscribed me to the list, but I
have unsubscribed. Also, adding my address to the 'owner' list, only
says that owner notifications will be sent to me. It does not give me
access to the list admin interface. Only the list admin password which
I do not know and do not want to know will do that. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.060.htp>.

And please remove me from the owner list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From sciamano72 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 12 11:29:53 2008
From: sciamano72 at gmail.com (Sciamano)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:29:53 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments and blank messages
Message-ID: <57cffa630804120229y4b3d7e09t382bd096f7785e90@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
I'm using Mailman to manage a mailing list, which was previously
hosted on yahoogroups.
I like it so far, but I'm encountering what I think is a filtering problem.

Basically, I don't want any attachments except for text files, nor any
HTML messages sent to the list.

The list seems to work fine for most of the subscribers, except for
two of them, whose messages are creating problems: one who uses his
office email account and whose server attaches a disclaimer to the
messages, and the other who is using an Excite email account, which
adds an HTML banner to the bottom of his messages.

Depending on how I set the list up, only one of these two members
messages get delivered to the entire list correctly. The other one's
get delivered as blank messages (althought they show up correctly in
the archive). I can't seem to be able to set the filtering properties
in order to have both members' messages delivered correctly.

More specifically, if I set content filtering this way:

------------begin-------------------------
Should Mailman filter the content of list traffic according to the
settings below?
(Edit filter_content): YES
	
Remove message attachments that have a matching content type.
(Details for filter_mime_types): BLANK
	
Remove message attachments that don't have a matching content type.
Leave this field blank to skip this filter test.
(Details for pass_mime_types): BLANK
	
Remove message attachments that have a matching filename extension.
(Edit filter_filename_extensions): exe bat cmd com pif scr vbs cpl zip
rar ace bin iso jpg jpeg jpe tif tiff gif bmp

Remove message attachments that don't have a matching filename
extension. Leave this field blank to skip this filter test.
(Edit pass_filename_extensions): BLANK
	
Should Mailman collapse multipart/alternative to its first part content?
(Edit collapse_alternatives): YES

Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text? This conversion
happens after MIME attachments have been stripped.
(Edit convert_html_to_plaintext): YES
	
Action to take when a message matches the content filtering rules.
(Details for filter_action): REJECT
--------end--------------	

the posts from the member using an Excite account get delivered
correctly, but those from the member using his office mail get
delivered as three attachments, two of which contain the list's header
and footer, and one containing the post. The problem is that not every
member receives the three attachments correctly, some only receive an
empty attachment.

I tried changing the collapse_alternatives setting to:

------------begin-------------------------
Should Mailman collapse multipart/alternative to its first part content?
(Edit collapse_alternatives): NO	
--------end--------------	

But when the list is set up this way, the posts from the "office
member" get delivered correctly, but those from the "Excite member"
arrive blank.

How can I have both members' posts delivered correctly?
Please help, thanks a lot.

-- 
Luca Somazzi
Milano, Italia

From uli at combie.de  Sat Apr 12 13:22:03 2008
From: uli at combie.de (combie)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 13:22:03 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman  sends only to listadmins
Message-ID: <011201c89c8f$6f01e270$6602a8c0@fettebeute>

>> This is your problem. All your list members are receiving digests
rather than individual messages, 
YES!
THX a lot!


>>And please remove me from the owner list.
Done !

From bergenpeak at comcast.net  Sat Apr 12 14:51:35 2008
From: bergenpeak at comcast.net (bergenpeak at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 12:51:35 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't get "open" list to work
Message-ID: <041220081251.27029.4800B05700094EA7000069952200734830050E0A9F020A099D0A0D@comcast.net>

I've got a number of mail lists I'd like to run without requiring the user to performan a confirmation or for the list-admin to approve.  I've added to "mm_cfg.py" the lines:

DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 0
ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = yes

and then stopped and restarted mailman.  If I send a  message with "subscribe" in the subject to one of the lists, the list admin still gets a mail indicating that the subscription request needs to be approved.

Thinking that the issue was that the user was a non-member, I added the user's domain into the "accept_these_nonmembers".  The behavior is the same-- the list admin gets a mail to approve their subscription request.

I then removed the domain info under "accept_these_nonmembers" and changed "generic_nonmember_action" to accept and the list admin still get a mail indicating an approval is required.

The "subscribe_policy" shows as none under the UI.

Is there another setting I need to tweak so that the list admin does not need to approve subscriptions?

Is a completely open list (no user confirmation, no list admin approval) possible?  I intend to lock things down via the ban list once I get the open portion working as I expect.

I'm running mailman 2.1.9 on red hat.

Thanks

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 12 16:19:21 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 07:19:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't get "open" list to work
In-Reply-To: <041220081251.27029.4800B05700094EA7000069952200734830050E0A9F020A099D0A0D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602008041207192103599a34381c@msapiro>

bergenpeak at comcast.net wrote:

>I've got a number of mail lists I'd like to run without requiring the user to performan a confirmation or for the list-admin to approve.  I've added to "mm_cfg.py" the lines:
>
>DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 0
>ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = yes
>
>and then stopped and restarted mailman.  If I send a  message with "subscribe" in the subject to one of the lists, the list admin still gets a mail indicating that the subscription request needs to be approved.


Because the settings you changed only allow open subscribes and set the
default for new lists (which you may or may not want to be 'open').

You now have to go to the admin interface for each list for which you
want open subscribes and on the Privacy options...->Subscription rules
page, set subscribe_policy to None.


>Thinking that the issue was that the user was a non-member, I added the user's domain into the "accept_these_nonmembers".  The behavior is the same-- the list admin gets a mail to approve their subscription request.
>
>I then removed the domain info under "accept_these_nonmembers" and changed "generic_nonmember_action" to accept and the list admin still get a mail indicating an approval is required.
>
>The "subscribe_policy" shows as none under the UI.


If you're certain that you are looking at subscribe_policy for the list
for which approval was required and that it was None at the time the
subscription was requested, then I don't understand what the problem
is.

You could try setting it to something other than None and then setting
it back to None, but that shouldn't really change anything.


>Is there another setting I need to tweak so that the list admin does not need to approve subscriptions?
>
>Is a completely open list (no user confirmation, no list admin approval) possible?  I intend to lock things down via the ban list once I get the open portion working as I expect.


Yes. That's what subscribe_policy = None (actually 0) is for.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 12 17:01:17 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 08:01:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments and blank messages
In-Reply-To: <57cffa630804120229y4b3d7e09t382bd096f7785e90@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008041208011709846a0cbee9@msapiro>

Sciamano wrote:
>
>Basically, I don't want any attachments except for text files, nor any
>HTML messages sent to the list.
>
>The list seems to work fine for most of the subscribers, except for
>two of them, whose messages are creating problems: one who uses his
>office email account and whose server attaches a disclaimer to the
>messages, and the other who is using an Excite email account, which
>adds an HTML banner to the bottom of his messages.
>
>Depending on how I set the list up, only one of these two members
>messages get delivered to the entire list correctly. The other one's
>get delivered as blank messages (althought they show up correctly in
>the archive). I can't seem to be able to set the filtering properties
>in order to have both members' messages delivered correctly.
>
>More specifically, if I set content filtering this way:

<snip>
>
>the posts from the member using an Excite account get delivered
>correctly, but those from the member using his office mail get
>delivered as three attachments, two of which contain the list's header
>and footer, and one containing the post. The problem is that not every
>member receives the three attachments correctly, some only receive an
>empty attachment.


This seems like a problem with the MUAs (mail clients) reading the
message rather than the message.


>I tried changing the collapse_alternatives setting to:
>
>------------begin-------------------------
>Should Mailman collapse multipart/alternative to its first part content?
>(Edit collapse_alternatives): NO	
>--------end--------------	
>
>But when the list is set up this way, the posts from the "office
>member" get delivered correctly, but those from the "Excite member"
>arrive blank.
>
>How can I have both members' posts delivered correctly?


Set your content filtering as follows to do what you say you want.

filter_content Yes

filter_mime_types empty

pass_mime_types
    multipart
    message/rfc822
    text/plain

filter_filename_extensions empty, but doesn't matter unless the message
has a text/plain attachment with a file name extension that matches.
pass_filename_extensions empty

collapse_alternatives probably Yes

convert_html_to_plaintext doesn't matter because no HTML will get there

filter_action Reject

The above will remove everything which is not a text/plain part from
the delivered messages.

If you want to allow HTML that isn't in a multipart/alternative part
and convert it to plain text with lynx or whatever is set in mm_cfg.py
as HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND, then add text/html to pass_mime_types
and set convert_html_to_plaintext to Yes.

If the above suggestions do not resolve the problem, we need to see a
sample of each message (one 'office' and one 'excite'). The samples
can be edited for privacy, but they need to be raw messages as sent by
the user (not necessarily to the list) with the MIME structure and
headers intact. I.e., they need to be messages as sent by the users,
not as delivered by the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From sciamano72 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 12 17:15:37 2008
From: sciamano72 at gmail.com (Sciamano)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:15:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments and blank messages
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008041208011709846a0cbee9@msapiro>
References: <57cffa630804120229y4b3d7e09t382bd096f7785e90@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602008041208011709846a0cbee9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <57cffa630804120815g60dd9917y5f4ae2e04c508c65@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/12/08, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> This seems like a problem with the MUAs (mail clients) reading the
>  message rather than the message.

That might be the issue, since I can read the messages correctly using KMail.

> Set your content filtering as follows to do what you say you want.

<snip>

>  convert_html_to_plaintext doesn't matter because no HTML will get there

But won't this affect the Excite user?

>  The above will remove everything which is not a text/plain part from
>  the delivered messages.

That's what I'm worried about, considering the fact that Excite
appends HTML automatically to outgoing messages. Won't this make all
messages from the Excite user be rejected?

>  If you want to allow HTML that isn't in a multipart/alternative part
>  and convert it to plain text with lynx or whatever is set in mm_cfg.py
>  as HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND, then add text/html to pass_mime_types
>  and set convert_html_to_plaintext to Yes.

I don't know how to do this. I have access to Mailman through a cPanel
hosting account, I have no direct access to the server and its
configuration files.

>  If the above suggestions do not resolve the problem, we need to see a
>  sample of each message (one 'office' and one 'excite'). The samples
>  can be edited for privacy, but they need to be raw messages as sent by
>  the user (not necessarily to the list) with the MIME structure and
>  headers intact. I.e., they need to be messages as sent by the users,
>  not as delivered by the list.

Ok, I've set up the list as per your suggestions.
I will keep you posted whether the problems have been solved this way.
If not, I'll try to forward the original messages.
Thanks for your help so far.

Luca

From bergenpeak at comcast.net  Sat Apr 12 17:36:59 2008
From: bergenpeak at comcast.net (bergenpeak at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 15:36:59 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't get "open" list to work
Message-ID: <041220081536.19591.4800D71B0000FB6100004C872205886442050E0A9F020A099D0A0D@comcast.net>

All of the tests below where based on a user sending a mail with "subscribe" to the mail distro list-xyz at domain.com.  If I instead have the user send the subscribe message to list-xyz-request at domain.com, they get added to the distro without confirmation or approver interaction. 

Ok, that's the behavior that I want but are the two different behaviors expected?   Specifically, the "open" list mechanism only operates as "open" if you send mail to the "-request" list?  

It looks when messages are sent to the main list (with subscribe as subject), they are correctly being identifed as admin in nature, but flagged for approval whereas the list is defined as open for subscriptions.

Thanks

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 

> bergenpeak at comcast.net wrote: 
> 
> >I've got a number of mail lists I'd like to run without requiring the user to 
> performan a confirmation or for the list-admin to approve. I've added to 
> "mm_cfg.py" the lines: 
> > 
> >DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 0 
> >ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = yes 
> > 
> >and then stopped and restarted mailman. If I send a message with "subscribe" 
> in the subject to one of the lists, the list admin still gets a mail indicating 
> that the subscription request needs to be approved. 
> 
> 
> Because the settings you changed only allow open subscribes and set the 
> default for new lists (which you may or may not want to be 'open'). 
> 
> You now have to go to the admin interface for each list for which you 
> want open subscribes and on the Privacy options...->Subscription rules 
> page, set subscribe_policy to None. 
> 
> 
> >Thinking that the issue was that the user was a non-member, I added the user's 
> domain into the "accept_these_nonmembers". The behavior is the same-- the list 
> admin gets a mail to approve their subscription request. 
> > 
> >I then removed the domain info under "accept_these_nonmembers" and changed 
> "generic_nonmember_action" to accept and the list admin still get a mail 
> indicating an approval is required. 
> > 
> >The "subscribe_policy" shows as none under the UI. 
> 
> 
> If you're certain that you are looking at subscribe_policy for the list 
> for which approval was required and that it was None at the time the 
> subscription was requested, then I don't understand what the problem 
> is. 
> 
> You could try setting it to something other than None and then setting 
> it back to None, but that shouldn't really change anything. 
> 
> 
> >Is there another setting I need to tweak so that the list admin does not need 
> to approve subscriptions? 
> > 
> >Is a completely open list (no user confirmation, no list admin approval) 
> possible? I intend to lock things down via the ban list once I get the open 
> portion working as I expect. 
> 
> 
> Yes. That's what subscribe_policy = None (actually 0) is for. 
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, 
> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan 
> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 12 17:46:53 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 08:46:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments and blank messages
In-Reply-To: <57cffa630804120815g60dd9917y5f4ae2e04c508c65@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804120846530078226b5a83@msapiro>

Sciamano wrote:

>On 4/12/08, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
>>  The above will remove everything which is not a text/plain part from
>>  the delivered messages.
>
>That's what I'm worried about, considering the fact that Excite
>appends HTML automatically to outgoing messages. Won't this make all
>messages from the Excite user be rejected?


Not if there is any text/plain part in the message. If the Excite
user's message is multipart/alternative with text/plain and text/html
alternative parts and then a text/html footer or whatever, accepting
only multipart and text/plain will pass the text/plain alternative and
remove the rest.

If the Excite user's message is HTML only with no text/plain parts, and
you want to accept it, then you need to add text/html to
pass_mime_types and set convert_html_to_plaintext to Yes if you want
it converted.


>>  If you want to allow HTML that isn't in a multipart/alternative part
>>  and convert it to plain text with lynx or whatever is set in mm_cfg.py
>>  as HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND, then add text/html to pass_mime_types
>>  and set convert_html_to_plaintext to Yes.
>
>I don't know how to do this. I have access to Mailman through a cPanel
>hosting account, I have no direct access to the server and its
>configuration files.


I'm not suggesting you do anything about this. I'm only trying to
explain how convert_html_to_plaintext works.


>>  If the above suggestions do not resolve the problem, we need to see a
>>  sample of each message (one 'office' and one 'excite'). The samples
>>  can be edited for privacy, but they need to be raw messages as sent by
>>  the user (not necessarily to the list) with the MIME structure and
>>  headers intact. I.e., they need to be messages as sent by the users,
>>  not as delivered by the list.
>
>Ok, I've set up the list as per your suggestions.
>I will keep you posted whether the problems have been solved this way.
>If not, I'll try to forward the original messages.
>Thanks for your help so far.


You're welcome, and do keep us posted.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 12 18:08:23 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 09:08:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't get "open" list to work
In-Reply-To: <041220081536.19591.4800D71B0000FB6100004C872205886442050E0A9F020A099D0A0D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602008041209082308436b50c922@msapiro>

bergenpeak at comcast.net wrote:
>
>All of the tests below where based on a user sending a mail with "subscribe" to the mail distro list-xyz at domain.com.  If I instead have the user send the subscribe message to list-xyz-request at domain.com, they get added to the distro without confirmation or approver interaction. 
>
>Ok, that's the behavior that I want but are the two different behaviors expected?   Specifically, the "open" list mechanism only operates as "open" if you send mail to the "-request" list?  
>
>It looks when messages are sent to the main list (with subscribe as subject), they are correctly being identifed as admin in nature, but flagged for approval whereas the list is defined as open for subscriptions.


Subscription requests are sent to the list-xyz-request (or
list-xyz-join or list-xyz-subscribe) address. Posts to the list
members are sent to the list-xyz address.

If something that looks like a 'request' is sent to the list posting
address, and the General Options administrivia setting is set to Yes,
that message is held for approval as a post, not as a request, so a
human can decide if it is a misdirected request or a valid post that
just happens to look like a request.

In no case is a request sent to the list posting address automatically
processed as a request.

Consider a list post about subscribing with subject 'Subscribe'. Do we
treat this as a subscribe request or as a post to the list? We don't
know, so we hold it for a human to review.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From sciamano72 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 12 18:18:24 2008
From: sciamano72 at gmail.com (Sciamano)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 18:18:24 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments and blank messages
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200804120846530078226b5a83@msapiro>
References: <57cffa630804120815g60dd9917y5f4ae2e04c508c65@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200804120846530078226b5a83@msapiro>
Message-ID: <57cffa630804120918u681dd019g533b026e2cad3eed@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/12/08, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

>  >Won't this make all
>  >messages from the Excite user be rejected?
>
>  Not if there is any text/plain part in the message. If the Excite
>  user's message is multipart/alternative with text/plain and text/html
>  alternative parts and then a text/html footer or whatever, accepting
>  only multipart and text/plain will pass the text/plain alternative and
>  remove the rest.


If this may help: to my MUA, the Excite user messages appear as
multipart/mixed, with multipart/alternative content and Plain Text
Documents.
Messages from the "office" user, appear to me as multipart/mixed
containing only Plain Text Documents.



>  If the Excite user's message is HTML only with no text/plain parts, and
>  you want to accept it, then you need to add text/html to
>  pass_mime_types and set convert_html_to_plaintext to Yes if you want
>  it converted.


>From what I can see, it should not be HTML only... but the more I
analyze this problem, the less I can get a hold of it :-)


>  >>  If you want to allow HTML that isn't in a multipart/alternative part
>  >>  and convert it to plain text with lynx or whatever is set in mm_cfg.py
>  >>  as HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND, then add text/html to pass_mime_types
>  >>  and set convert_html_to_plaintext to Yes.
>  >
>  >I don't know how to do this. I have access to Mailman through a cPanel
>  >hosting account, I have no direct access to the server and its
>  >configuration files.
>
> I'm not suggesting you do anything about this. I'm only trying to
>  explain how convert_html_to_plaintext works.

Oh, sorry... I misread one line and understood it completely wrong.
Now I got it.


> You're welcome, and do keep us posted.

I surely will.
Thanks again
Luca

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 12 18:58:22 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 09:58:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments and blank messages
In-Reply-To: <57cffa630804120918u681dd019g533b026e2cad3eed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080412095822040607b42e4c@msapiro>

Sciamano wrote:
>
>If this may help: to my MUA, the Excite user messages appear as
>multipart/mixed, with multipart/alternative content and Plain Text
>Documents.


For this message, pass_mime_types with 'multipart', 'message/rfc822'
and 'text/plain' only will deliver a message to the list which is a
multipart/mixed message with the original text/plain part(s). In
addition if msg_header and/or msg_footer are non-empty, thos will be
added as separate text plain parts.


>Messages from the "office" user, appear to me as multipart/mixed
>containing only Plain Text Documents.


And the above content filtering setting will not change this message.
The problem with this message is that the text/plain parts are
probably some kind of header followed by the original message body
followed by some kind of footer. Some MUAs will display the header as
the message and call the actual message an attachment. This same issue
can occur when Mailman adds msg_header as a separate part. There's
little if anything that can be done about this other than reading the
message with a more competent MUA.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bergenpeak at comcast.net  Sat Apr 12 23:21:50 2008
From: bergenpeak at comcast.net (bergenpeak at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:21:50 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] open list and unsubscription
Message-ID: <041220082121.11980.480127EE0007E17600002ECC2200745672050E0A9F020A099D0A0D@comcast.net>

Is there a way to configure mailman so that a user can e-mail unsubscribe to a list but not need to perform a confirmation (or having to provide their pswd).

Thanks

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Apr 13 00:05:18 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 15:05:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] open list and unsubscription
In-Reply-To: <041220082121.11980.480127EE0007E17600002ECC2200745672050E0A9F020A099D0A0D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804121505180593b854b0c3@msapiro>

bergenpeak at comcast.net wrote:

>Is there a way to configure mailman so that a user can e-mail unsubscribe to a list but not need to perform a confirmation (or having to provide their pswd).


Only by requiring admin approval for unsubscribes. In that case, the
request is held for admin approval and the user is so notified and is
unsubscribed when the request is approved.

In all other cases, if the user's password is not provided, the user
must confirm.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bergenpeak at comcast.net  Sun Apr 13 00:23:01 2008
From: bergenpeak at comcast.net (bergenpeak at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 22:23:01 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] open list and unsubscription
Message-ID: <041220082223.2558.4801364500095977000009FE2205889116050E0A9F020A099D0A0D@comcast.net>

What functionality would I lose if I just changed the code that processed the info being delivered to "list-xyz-request"?  What if I changed, in /etc/alias, "|mailman request list-xyz" to a "|my-code.pl list-xyz".  This code would simply determine if this was a subscribe or unsubscribe request, and add_member or remove_member.   From what I can tell, if I run the add_member or remove_member directly, there's no need for a user confirmation or list-admin approval (right?)

I guess if its not obviously a subscribe or unsubscribe, I could then do a "|mailman request list-xyz" and see if the standard mailman machinery can figure out the right response.

What can of worms would I be opening if I went down this path?

Thanks



-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 

> bergenpeak at comcast.net wrote: 
> 
> >Is there a way to configure mailman so that a user can e-mail unsubscribe to a 
> list but not need to perform a confirmation (or having to provide their pswd). 
> 
> 
> Only by requiring admin approval for unsubscribes. In that case, the 
> request is held for admin approval and the user is so notified and is 
> unsubscribed when the request is approved. 
> 
> In all other cases, if the user's password is not provided, the user 
> must confirm. 
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, 
> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan 
> 

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Apr 13 01:33:29 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 08:33:29 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't get "open" list to work
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008041209082308436b50c922@msapiro>
References: <041220081536.19591.4800D71B0000FB6100004C872205886442050E0A9F020A099D0A0D@comcast.net>
	<PC17602008041209082308436b50c922@msapiro>
Message-ID: <878wziir7a.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > If something that looks like a 'request' is sent to the list posting
 > address, and the General Options administrivia setting is set to Yes,
 > that message is held for approval as a post, not as a request, so a
 > human can decide if it is a misdirected request or a valid post that
 > just happens to look like a request.
 > 
 > In no case is a request sent to the list posting address automatically
 > processed as a request.

It would be possible to try to detect and process these.  My former
list processor (IIRC, it was Majordomo) did that, and the first
non-default configuration I did was to disable it because two users
with broken procmailrcs sent "why can't I subscribe" messages to the
list.  I didn't see them, but they did result in multiple
subscriptions.  A good time was had by all ... not.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Apr 13 01:54:39 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 16:54:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] open list and unsubscription
In-Reply-To: <041220082223.2558.4801364500095977000009FE2205889116050E0A9F020A099D0A0D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804121654390796af84b1a3@msapiro>

bergenpeak at comcast.net wrote:
>
>What functionality would I lose if I just changed the code that processed the info being delivered to "list-xyz-request"?  What if I changed, in /etc/alias, "|mailman request list-xyz" to a "|my-code.pl list-xyz".


What's this my-code.pl stuff? Shouldn't that be my-code.py? ;)


>This code would simply determine if this was a subscribe or unsubscribe request, and add_member or remove_member.   From what I can tell, if I run the add_member or remove_member directly, there's no need for a user confirmation or list-admin approval (right?)


The main problem with the above is SETGID doesn't work on scripts so
your script will run as the user:group that the MTA invoked it as.
Depending on the MTA and its configuration, this may not have
permission to successfully run Mailman's bin/add_members and
bin/remove_members.


>I guess if its not obviously a subscribe or unsubscribe, I could then do a "|mailman request list-xyz" and see if the standard mailman machinery can figure out the right response.
>
>What can of worms would I be opening if I went down this path?


Aside from the potential permissions issue, it should be OK as long as
the MTA allows it sufficient time to finish.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From J.Angel at herts.ac.uk  Mon Apr 14 11:30:59 2008
From: J.Angel at herts.ac.uk (Judy Angel)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:30:59 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change all subscribers config
Message-ID: <372119812.1208169059@ICT-JA>


How do I change all subscribers to a list from plain to mime
How do I change all subscribers to a list from digest to non-digest?
Thanks
Judy Angel
University of Hertfordshire

From J.Angel at herts.ac.uk  Mon Apr 14 12:53:27 2008
From: J.Angel at herts.ac.uk (Judy Angel)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 11:53:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Selected timed delivery
Message-ID: <377068125.1208174007@ICT-JA>


I have a request for mail from a mailing list to be delivered at off peak 
time, 21:00-08:00. I have set it up in digest, but this format was not well 
received, and it only delivers once a day. Is there any way to freeze the 
messages and only release at a given time?
Thanks
Judy Angel
University of Hertfordshire

From paulm at rdscv.ro  Mon Apr 14 14:38:15 2008
From: paulm at rdscv.ro (paulm)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:38:15 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] domain allow
Message-ID: <48035037.3040008@rdscv.ro>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

hi, i have a configuration question, i want to allow users from a
certain domain that are not in the list to be able to send emails to the
list. So far i succeeded only by adding users one by one into the "List
of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted.
" field. Is there a way to add a whole domain ?


Regards Paul.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFIA1A3GPhC6XW20oARAkTQAJ9+DPfGIy/c4sZeZaJ/yoGHSmQLFQCfcQhR
1LsuZ9SOQ6PliWQSTx/Jo5I=
=peDp
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From paulm at rdscv.ro  Mon Apr 14 15:05:57 2008
From: paulm at rdscv.ro (paulm)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:05:57 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] domain allow
In-Reply-To: <48035037.3040008@rdscv.ro>
References: <48035037.3040008@rdscv.ro>
Message-ID: <480356B5.5060001@rdscv.ro>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

sry for the post, i found my answer on the mailing list archive.

paulm wrote:
| hi, i have a configuration question, i want to allow users from a
| certain domain that are not in the list to be able to send emails to the
| list. So far i succeeded only by adding users one by one into the "List
| of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted.
| " field. Is there a way to add a whole domain ?
|
|
| Regards Paul.
- ------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/paulm%40rdscv.ro

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

- --

Paul Marinas, netadm @ RDS Craiova.
Imagination is more important than knowledge... - A.E.
GnuPG Key http://pgp.rdscv.ro
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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+dFtY5vWFshYyme5mulaYlw=
=sOZz
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Mon Apr 14 16:51:13 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:51:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dump subscriber list from Web interface?
Message-ID: <48036F61.9000606@Media-Brokers.com>

Hi,

I checked the release notes for the 2.1.10 betas and didn't find 
anything about this, but thought I'd ask anyway...

Any chance 2.1.10 will allow the admin to dump the list of subscribers 
from the web interface?

Thanks, mailman rocks! Look forward to the release of 2.1.10...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Mon Apr 14 16:59:52 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 07:59:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change all subscribers config
In-Reply-To: <372119812.1208169059@ICT-JA>
References: <372119812.1208169059@ICT-JA>
Message-ID: <200804141455.m3EEtkkp011403@newbox.eroded.org>

Judy Angel sent the message below at 02:30 4/14/2008:

>How do I change all subscribers to a list from plain to mime
>How do I change all subscribers to a list from digest to non-digest?
>Thanks
>Judy Angel
>University of Hertfordshire
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

You can do those things through scripts run via the bin/withlist 
utility. I don't really know off the top of my head exactly how to do 
that as Python is not my forte. However, the MIME setting only refers 
to the digest option, so if you set it and then turn off digest for 
everyone, it really won't have any effect.



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Mon Apr 14 17:06:08 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:06:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Selected timed delivery
In-Reply-To: <377068125.1208174007@ICT-JA>
References: <377068125.1208174007@ICT-JA>
Message-ID: <200804141502.m3EF22xx011493@newbox.eroded.org>

Judy Angel sent the message below at 03:53 4/14/2008:

>I have a request for mail from a mailing list to be delivered at off peak
>time, 21:00-08:00. I have set it up in digest, but this format was not well
>received, and it only delivers once a day. Is there any way to freeze the
>messages and only release at a given time?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Mailman does not support any such functionality for individual posts. 
If you use the digest, you can edit the delivery time to what you 
want in mailman's crontab.

However, I seem to recall that if the size of the digest exceeds the 
limit set in Digest options digest_size_threshold a digest mail will 
be sent immediately. So in order to insure that the digest is only 
sent when you want it to go out, you will need to make that setting 
large enough to cover the volume of posting in the digest period.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr 14 17:18:59 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:18:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change all subscribers config
In-Reply-To: <372119812.1208169059@ICT-JA>
Message-ID: <PC176020080414081859062588902aac@msapiro>

Judy Angel wrote:
>
>How do I change all subscribers to a list from plain to mime
>How do I change all subscribers to a list from digest to non-digest?


If you are going to set them all to 'non-digest', the plain/mime
setting is irrelevant. However, there are a bunch of example withlist
scripts at <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/> (mirrored at
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/> and
<http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/>).

Assuming you have access to the command line interface, look at the
<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/set_unhide.py> script. Change

    for member in mlist.getMembers():
        mlist.setMemberOption(member, mm_cfg.ConcealSubscription, 0)

to

    for member in mlist.getMembers():
        mlist.setMemberOption(member, mm_cfg.DisableMime, 0)
    for member in mlist.getDigestMemberKeys():
        mlist.setMemberOption(member, mm_cfg.Digests, 0)

and then save and run it as described in the script.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr 14 17:31:47 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:31:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dump subscriber list from Web interface?
In-Reply-To: <48036F61.9000606@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080414083147018778d0522a@msapiro>

Charles Marcus wrote:
>
>I checked the release notes for the 2.1.10 betas and didn't find 
>anything about this, but thought I'd ask anyway...
>
>Any chance 2.1.10 will allow the admin to dump the list of subscribers 
>from the web interface?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>.

Changes in 2.1.10 include showing 'hidden' members in both the web
roster and the email 'who' results if the requester authenticates with
the list admin/moderator password.

Also, in 2.1.10 you will be able to set the maximum members per page
for the admin Membership List.

But there is no 'dump the membership list to a file' button.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Mon Apr 14 17:48:03 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 11:48:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dump subscriber list from Web interface?
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080414083147018778d0522a@msapiro>
References: <PC176020080414083147018778d0522a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <48037CB3.5080005@Media-Brokers.com>

On 4/14/2008, Mark Sapiro (mark at msapiro.net) wrote:
> But there is no 'dump the membership list to a file' button.

The reason I ask is, on a hosted service, you don't always have access 
the the cli - so a button in the web GUI would be nice...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Mon Apr 14 17:49:40 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 11:49:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dump subscriber list from Web interface?
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080414083147018778d0522a@msapiro>
References: <PC176020080414083147018778d0522a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <48037D14.7020206@Media-Brokers.com>

On 4/14/2008, Mark Sapiro (mark at msapiro.net) wrote:
>> I checked the release notes for the 2.1.10 betas and didn't find 
>> anything about this, but thought I'd ask anyway...
>> 
>> Any chance 2.1.10 will allow the admin to dump the list of 
>> subscribers from the web interface?

> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>.
> 
> Changes in 2.1.10 include showing 'hidden' members in both the web
> roster and the email 'who' results if the requester authenticates with
> the list admin/moderator password.

Cool, thanks... one of these will work for my purposes...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From bergenpeak at comcast.net  Mon Apr 14 19:01:48 2008
From: bergenpeak at comcast.net (bergenpeak at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:01:48 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] dump all list users from cli
Message-ID: <041420081701.26808.48038DFC000A3F01000068B82200761064050E0A9F020A099D0A0D@comcast.net>

Is there a way to dump all the members of all lists in a single command?    Something like "list_members -o - *" ?  The output would be something like:

list-name  email-address
etc.

Thanks

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Mon Apr 14 19:13:11 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:13:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] dump all list users from cli
In-Reply-To: <041420081701.26808.48038DFC000A3F01000068B82200761064050E0
	A9F020A099D0A0D@comcast.net>
References: <041420081701.26808.48038DFC000A3F01000068B82200761064050E0A9F020A099D0A0D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <200804141709.m3EH94ix013508@newbox.eroded.org>

bergenpeak at comcast.net sent the message below at 10:01 4/14/2008:
>Is there a way to dump all the members of all lists in a single 
>command?    Something like "list_members -o - *" ?  The output would 
>be something like:
>
>list-name  email-address
>etc.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

See:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr 14 19:28:14 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:28:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] dump all list users from cli
In-Reply-To: <041420081701.26808.48038DFC000A3F01000068B82200761064050E0A9F020A099D0A0D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804141028140796419733ea@msapiro>

bergenpeak at comcast.net wrote:

>Is there a way to dump all the members of all lists in a single command?    Something like "list_members -o - *" ?  The output would be something like:
>
>list-name  email-address
>etc.

The output won't be exactly as above, but

  bin/find_member .

(note the '.' regexp matching any address) will give you

user1 at example.com found in:
     list1
user2 at example.com found in:
     list2
user3 at example.com found in:
     list1
     list2
etc.

If you really want output as you indicate, something like

 for list in `bin/list_lists --bare`; do
   bin/list_members $list | sed "s/^/$list /"
 done

will do it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bergenpeak at comcast.net  Mon Apr 14 21:26:24 2008
From: bergenpeak at comcast.net (bergenpeak at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:26:24 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "topics"
Message-ID: <041420081926.23561.4803AFE000064A0A00005C092206998499050E0A9F020A099D0A0D@comcast.net>


I dumped out a list config and noticed at the bottom some config around "topics".  Some of the comments in the text suggests that a list subscriber can "choose to only receive messages from the mailing list for a particular topic bucket (or buckets)".  

Is this saying then that there's a way for users to see only a subset of messages sent to a list?  Is this configurable from a users perspcetive?  That is, when a user subscribes, is there a way for the user to indicate in the subscribe message the regular expression to use to determine which messages (buckets) they're interested in?

thanks

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr 14 22:02:24 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:02:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "topics"
In-Reply-To: <041420081926.23561.4803AFE000064A0A00005C092206998499050E0A9F020A099D0A0D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804141302240140ec17bc64@msapiro>

bergenpeak at comcast.net wrote:
>
>I dumped out a list config and noticed at the bottom some config around "topics".  Some of the comments in the text suggests that a list subscriber can "choose to only receive messages from the mailing list for a particular topic bucket (or buckets)".  
>
>Is this saying then that there's a way for users to see only a subset of messages sent to a list?  Is this configurable from a users perspcetive?  That is, when a user subscribes, is there a way for the user to indicate in the subscribe message the regular expression to use to determine which messages (buckets) they're interested in?


Topics are defined by the list admin, not by the user. See the Topics
section of the web admin interface. Topics are defined by regexps that
match against the Subject: and Keywords: message headers or header
like initial body lines.

If the list defines topics, each list member has the option of
subscribing to a subset of the defined topics and if the member
subscribes to one or more topics, she then has the further option of
receiving or not those message which match no topic.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 15 00:47:53 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:47:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <47F7B288.6020801@msapiro.net>
References: <47D9E26E.4040708@msapiro.net> <47F7B288.6020801@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4803DF19.3030406@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I am happy to announce the release of Mailman 2.1.10rc1.

This is a security and bug fix release and it is highly recommended
that all sites upgrade to this version. Mailman 2.1.10 also adds support
for three new language translations, Galician, Hebrew and Slovak and a
few new features.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and e-
newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, including download links, please see:

http://www.list.org
http://mailman.sf.net
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman

Special thanks are due to Barry Warsaw and Tokio Kikuchi for much coding
and support, Moritz Naumann for help with security issues and Jim
Tittsler for a significant patch.

Here's a list of the major changes.

Note in particular, the second item under Security as this is new since
2.1.10b4 and requires an mm_cfg.py change to maintain current behavior.


Security

- - The 2.1.9 fixes for CVE-2006-3636 were not complete.  In particular,
~  some potential cross-site scripting attacks were not detected in
~  editing templates and updating the list's info attribute via the web
~  admin interface.  This has been assigned CVE-2008-0564 and has been
~  fixed.  Thanks again to Moritz Naumann for assistance with this.

- - There is a new mm_cfg.py/Defaults.py variable
~  OWNERS_CAN_CHANGE_MEMBER_PASSWORDS which controls whether the list
~  owner can change a member's password from the member's options page.
~  This defaults to No and should be changed to Yes only if list owners
~  are trusted to not change a member's password, log in as the member
~  and make global membership changes.

New Features

- - Changed cmd_who.py to list all members if authorization is with the
~  list's admin or moderator password and to accept the password if the
~  roster is public.  Also changed the web roster to show hidden members
~  when authorization is by site or list's admin or moderator password
~  (1587651).

- - Added the ability to put a list name in accept_these_nonmembers
~  to accept posts from members of that list (1220144).

- - Added a new 'sibling list' feature to exclude members of another list
~  from receiving a post from this list if the other list is in the To:
~  or Cc: of the post or to include members of the other list if that
~  list is  not in the To: or Cc: of the post (Patch ID 1347962).

- - Added the admin_member_chunksize attribute to the admin General
~  Options interface (Bug 1072002, Partial RFE 782436).

Internationalization

- - Added the Hebrew translation from Dov Zamir.  This includes addition
~  of a direction ('ltr', 'rtl') to the LC_DESCRIPTIONS table.  The
~  add_language() function defaults direction to 'ltr' to not break
~  existing mm_cfg.py files.

- - Added the Slovak translation from Martin Matuska.

- - Added the Galician translation from Frco. Javier Rial Rodr?guez.


Changes since 2.1.10b4 include the OWNERS_CAN_CHANGE_MEMBER_PASSWORDS
setting mentioned above plus

- - Changed cmd_subscribe.py to properly accept (no)digest without a
~  password and to recognize (no)digest and address= case insensitively.

- - An updated mm-handler (mm-handler-2.1.10) that can help reduce
~  backscatter has been added to the contrib directory.

and updates to the Italian and Polish translations.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From xurizaemon at gmail.com  Tue Apr 15 01:19:28 2008
From: xurizaemon at gmail.com (chris burgess)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:19:28 +1200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] filtering excess quotes
Message-ID: <70d16a930804141619j44008eeh4ff76bcf469dbbfb@mail.gmail.com>

Does Mailman have a facility to prevent or hold messages which have excess
quoted contents, eg where the message content is severely outweighed by a
length bottom-quote?

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 15 02:01:44 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:01:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "topics"
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200804141302240140ec17bc64@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC176020080414170144015664df1008@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>bergenpeak at comcast.net wrote:
>>
<snip>
>>That is, when a user subscribes, is there a way for the user to indicate in the subscribe message the regular expression to use to determine which messages (buckets) they're interested in?

<snip>

>If the list defines topics, each list member has the option of
>subscribing to a subset of the defined topics and if the member
>subscribes to one or more topics, she then has the further option of
>receiving or not those message which match no topic.


To answer the last part of your question, there is no way for a user to
indicate in any subscribe request or subsequent email command which
topics the user wants to subscribe to. This can only be done via the
web via the member options page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From xurizaemon at gmail.com  Tue Apr 15 02:39:48 2008
From: xurizaemon at gmail.com (chris burgess)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:39:48 +1200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] filtering excess quotes
In-Reply-To: <70d16a930804141619j44008eeh4ff76bcf469dbbfb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <70d16a930804141619j44008eeh4ff76bcf469dbbfb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <70d16a930804141739lfbb78f9s1a882e288f2ca973@mail.gmail.com>

There are a few posts querying this capability, and one in particular which
suggests that a similar facility would exist in 2.1

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg05666.html

I've looked in the various content-filtering, privacy and spam filter
sections but can't see where/how I could hold messages which match the text
"Please trim quotes", if that text was inserted into the footer of each
outgoing message. We're using MM2.1.9

Does anyone know how this can now be achieved?

Also - a few other similar requests from years gone by:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg48840.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg29350.html

And for digests:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg23287.html

There are lots more requests like this in the list archives, but no clear
answer that I can see.

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:19 AM, chris burgess <xurizaemon at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Does Mailman have a facility to prevent or hold messages which have excess
> quoted contents, eg where the message content is severely outweighed by a
> length bottom-quote?
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 15 03:14:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 18:14:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] filtering excess quotes
In-Reply-To: <70d16a930804141739lfbb78f9s1a882e288f2ca973@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080414181408012564df0fc5@msapiro>

chris burgess wrote:

>There are a few posts querying this capability, and one in particular which
>suggests that a similar facility would exist in 2.1
>
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg05666.html
>


That's not how I read it. It seems to me that Chuq was only saying that
he would support the idea of adding the "hold posts containing key
footer strings" feature to 2.1.


>I've looked in the various content-filtering, privacy and spam filter
>sections but can't see where/how I could hold messages which match the text
>"Please trim quotes", if that text was inserted into the footer of each
>outgoing message. We're using MM2.1.9
>
>Does anyone know how this can now be achieved?


See below.


>Also - a few other similar requests from years gone by:
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg48840.html


The above is your own post from an hour before.


>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg29350.html
>
>And for digests:
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg23287.html
>
>There are lots more requests like this in the list archives, but no clear
>answer that I can see.
>
>On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:19 AM, chris burgess <xurizaemon at gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> Does Mailman have a facility to prevent or hold messages which have excess
>> quoted contents, eg where the message content is severely outweighed by a
>> length bottom-quote?


Standard Mailman does not have a directly configurable way to examine
message content as opposed to headers. This is an easy thing to
implement using a custom handler. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.067.htp>.
That is, it is easy to implement a handler to look at the message body
and modify the body or hold the message based on what it finds.
Actually coding the part that recognizes those things you're trying to
deal with, and deals with them appropriately may not be so easy.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bergenpeak at comcast.net  Tue Apr 15 05:13:02 2008
From: bergenpeak at comcast.net (bergenpeak at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:13:02 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "topics"
Message-ID: <041520080313.3715.48041D3E0002B75900000E832213528573050E0A9F020A099D0A0D@comcast.net>

So how does a subscribe become aware of the different topics available on a list?

How does one configure a user's e-mail address to receive only messages which match a topic?  

Thanks

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 

> bergenpeak at comcast.net wrote: 
> > 
> >I dumped out a list config and noticed at the bottom some config around 
> "topics". Some of the comments in the text suggests that a list subscriber can 
> "choose to only receive messages from the mailing list for a particular topic 
> bucket (or buckets)". 
> > 
> >Is this saying then that there's a way for users to see only a subset of 
> messages sent to a list? Is this configurable from a users perspcetive? That 
> is, when a user subscribes, is there a way for the user to indicate in the 
> subscribe message the regular expression to use to determine which messages 
> (buckets) they're interested in? 
> 
> 
> Topics are defined by the list admin, not by the user. See the Topics 
> section of the web admin interface. Topics are defined by regexps that 
> match against the Subject: and Keywords: message headers or header 
> like initial body lines. 
> 
> If the list defines topics, each list member has the option of 
> subscribing to a subset of the defined topics and if the member 
> subscribes to one or more topics, she then has the further option of 
> receiving or not those message which match no topic. 
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, 
> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan 
> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 15 05:27:16 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:27:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "topics"
In-Reply-To: <041520080313.3715.48041D3E0002B75900000E832213528573050E0A9F020A099D0A0D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020080414202716065631c665e0@msapiro>

bergenpeak at comcast.net wrote:
>
>So how does a subscribe become aware of the different topics available on a list?


She goes to her user options page, the one similar to
<http://python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/> for this list, and
logs in. If topics are defined, they will be listed in the "Which
topic categories would you like to subscribe to?" section.


>How does one configure a user's e-mail address to receive only messages which match a topic?  


On the same page, she selects those topics she wants to receive.

This is all described in section 9 of the user's manual
<http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node29.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bergenpeak at comcast.net  Tue Apr 15 06:08:25 2008
From: bergenpeak at comcast.net (bergenpeak at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 04:08:25 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "topics"
Message-ID: <041520080408.4213.48042A390005EE9E000010752200734830050E0A9F020A099D0A0D@comcast.net>

Is there a way to set a user's topics via a cli command?   

I've written a script which processes all the mail sent to "list-xyz-request" and automates subscription or unsubscribes to that list (in order to make both the subscription and unsubscribe options open).  It would seem easy enough to take mail sent to "list-xyz-request" with a "Subject: subscribe topic-abc " line and configure the user to receive mails sent to xyz that match topic "topic-abc".  But this would require a CLI command, and I was thinking it would be via the "add_member" command, but I don't see a means to set a topic value.  None of the other commands in mailman/bin hint at supporting  configuring a user's topic info.

Thanks

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 

> bergenpeak at comcast.net wrote: 
> > 
> >So how does a subscribe become aware of the different topics available on a 
> list? 
> 
> 
> She goes to her user options page, the one similar to 
> for this list, and 
> logs in. If topics are defined, they will be listed in the "Which 
> topic categories would you like to subscribe to?" section. 
> 
> 
> >How does one configure a user's e-mail address to receive only messages which 
> match a topic? 
> 
> 
> On the same page, she selects those topics she wants to receive. 
> 
> This is all described in section 9 of the user's manual 
> . 
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, 
> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan 
> 

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 15 06:45:40 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 23:45:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dump subscriber list from Web interface?
In-Reply-To: <48037CB3.5080005@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <PC176020080414083147018778d0522a@msapiro>
	<48037CB3.5080005@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c429e3215c73@[192.168.1.199]>

On 4/14/08, Charles Marcus wrote:

>  The reason I ask is, on a hosted service, you don't always have access
>  the the cli - so a button in the web GUI would be nice...

Mailman was never designed to be used in such an environment, and any 
hosting company who provides Mailman as a service and who doesn't 
back that up with proper site admin support, well ... deserves to be 
put out of business.

Vote with your feet and your dollars.  There are plenty of providers 
out there who do provide sufficient site admin support.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From Luke.Daly at newcastle.edu.au  Tue Apr 15 06:13:56 2008
From: Luke.Daly at newcastle.edu.au (Luke Daly)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:13:56 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam coming through ultra important list
Message-ID: <4804B824.7D71.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au>

Hi Guys

We currently run a hundred or so lists at a university our biggest one (22000 students at a university) is obviously moderated. bringing the membership up in the web interface doesnt work it just times out as it does randomly when trying to apply changes, but thats not the biggest problem. even with users moderated and action to take when a moderated user is set to reject and action to take when a non member posts is set to reject we got some spam t go through. allowing 22000 students to decide if they wanted to make friends with some russian teenager or something. obviously this is a pretty grave situation. we couldnt get into the web interface so we turned emergency moderation on at the box. is this a known issue or does anyone suspect what it may be/ is it because the list is so large? or that we have so many lists? or is the box under resourced? I have no idea what is happening here. any help would be appreciated.

Luke Daly
Systems Officer
IT Infrastructure
Newcastle University
17000
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you are not an authorised recipient of this e-mail, please reply to the sender of this e-mail indicating that you are not the intended recipient. In this case, you should not print, re-transmit to another party, store or act in reliance on this e-mail or any attachments, and should destroy all copies of them. This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may contain legally privileged information and/or copyright material of the sender or third parties. You should only re-transmit, distribute or commercialise the material if you are authorised to do so.
 

 



From gege at mgeiger.de  Tue Apr 15 08:25:03 2008
From: gege at mgeiger.de (Michael Geiger)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:25:03 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] drop spam solution
Message-ID: <48044A3F.6020504@mgeiger.de>

Hello,

I just want to let you know how I solved the spam problem on my server
and reduced the mail load dramatically:


Mails arriving on my server get tagged by spamassassin before they reach
mailman:
postfix -> spamassassin -> postfix -> mailman
(see http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/IntegratedSpamdInPostfix)


I changed my mailman installation (in /opt/mailman) this way:

In directory /opt/mailman/mail:

1. move mailman to mailman-org

2. create a new wrapper-script "mailman" (chown mailman:mailman, chmod 755):
----- BEGIN -----
#!/bin/sh
/usr/bin/procmail -m /opt/mailman/mail/mailman.procmailrc $*
-----  END  -----

3. create the file "mailman.procmailrc" (chown mailman:mailman, chmod 644):
----- BEGIN -----
:0
* ^X-Spam-Flag:.+YES
/dev/null

:0
|/opt/mailman/mail/mailman-org $1 $2
-----  END  -----


Now every mail that gets tagged as spam by sa will be dropped by
procmail, even those annoying mails to -owner. And no more backscatter
from your list!!


Michael

From munichlinux at gmail.com  Tue Apr 15 16:46:35 2008
From: munichlinux at gmail.com (Prashanth)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:16:35 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and sendmail issue
Message-ID: <1f869bdd0804150746l4f21cb4oa06a74de09c2b875@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

         when i send the mail i happen to see this in the sendmail
error log "stat=unknown mailer error 1 " any clue why is that because
of?

-- 
regards,

Prashanth
http://munichlinux.blogspot.com

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 15 17:07:33 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:07:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] drop spam solution
In-Reply-To: <48044A3F.6020504@mgeiger.de>
References: <48044A3F.6020504@mgeiger.de>
Message-ID: <20080415110733.1r6kra43xmj7j4kk@webmail.his.com>

Quoting Michael Geiger <gege at mgeiger.de>:

> 2. create a new wrapper-script "mailman" (chown mailman:mailman, chmod 755):
> ----- BEGIN -----
> #!/bin/sh
> /usr/bin/procmail -m /opt/mailman/mail/mailman.procmailrc $*
> -----  END  -----
>
> 3. create the file "mailman.procmailrc" (chown mailman:mailman, chmod 644):
> ----- BEGIN -----
> :0
> * ^X-Spam-Flag:.+YES
> /dev/null
>
> :0
> |/opt/mailman/mail/mailman-org $1 $2
> -----  END  -----

You can do all of this from within Mailman itself.  You don't need  
procmail.  If anything, you've made your mail server configuration  
more complex and more error-prone than it needs to be, in order to  
achieve your goal.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 15 17:15:50 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:15:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam coming through ultra important list
In-Reply-To: <4804B824.7D71.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au>
References: <4804B824.7D71.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <20080415111550.2hl5k06jpm8skc40@webmail.his.com>

Quoting Luke Daly <Luke.Daly at newcastle.edu.au>:

> We currently run a hundred or so lists at a university our biggest   
> one (22000 students at a university) is obviously moderated.

As a side note, I work at a public research University with ~50,000  
students and ~20,000 faculty and staff.

> bringing the membership up in the web interface doesnt work it just   
> times out as it does randomly when trying to apply changes, but   
> thats not the biggest problem.

Mailman was not designed to handle large lists through the WebUI.  I  
hope some of that will be improving with Mailman3, but there's no way  
to tell if that's the case or when Mailman3 will be shipping.

In the meanwhile, you need to make use of the command-line moderation  
& administration tools that are outlined in the FAQ.

>                                 even with users moderated and action  
>  to take when a moderated user is set to reject and action to take   
> when a non member posts is set to reject we got some spam t go   
> through.

I'm not surprised.  If the spammers have access to your archives, then  
they can probably figure out who the authorized users are and forge  
e-mail claiming to be from them.

>                          we couldnt get into the web interface so we  
>  turned emergency moderation on at the box.

In a case like this, that's a good first step.

>                                            is this a known issue or   
> does anyone suspect what it may be/ is it because the list is so   
> large? or that we have so many lists? or is the box under resourced?  
>  I have no idea what is happening here. any help would be appreciated.

Well, you really haven't given us any specifics at all regarding the  
nature of the box, how the mail server is configured, etc....  So,  
it's really hard to make any specific comments that may be helpful to  
you.

I can tell you to go read FAQ 3.11 at  
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>, and  
decide if you want to continue using a moderation-based mechanism like  
you have now (so that all messages have to be approved by the  
moderator, regardless of who the sender is), or if you want to use a  
password-enabled system and an "Approved:" header.

If the former, then you're already doing everything you want, and you  
just need to use the system you have.

If the latter, then pay special attention to the instructions on how  
to use the "Approved:" header, otherwise you'll be posting that header  
(and password) to the entire list for everyone to see, at which point  
you'll need to change the password again.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 15 17:22:42 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:22:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and sendmail issue
In-Reply-To: <1f869bdd0804150746l4f21cb4oa06a74de09c2b875@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1f869bdd0804150746l4f21cb4oa06a74de09c2b875@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080415112242.srqkk30k660wkg0s@webmail.his.com>

Quoting Prashanth <munichlinux at gmail.com>:

>          when i send the mail i happen to see this in the sendmail
> error log "stat=unknown mailer error 1 " any clue why is that because
> of?

You don't give us any useful information, so we're not going to be  
able to give you a useful answer.

Please see FAQ 1.21 at  
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>.  And  
if you do have a detailed question, please see FAQ 1.22 as well.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From chris at westnet.com  Tue Apr 15 17:39:08 2008
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:39:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <4803DF19.3030406@msapiro.net>
References: <47D9E26E.4040708@msapiro.net> <47F7B288.6020801@msapiro.net>
	<4803DF19.3030406@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0804151137030.27712@westnet.com>

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> This is a security and bug fix release and it is highly recommended
> that all sites upgrade to this version. Mailman 2.1.10 also adds support

Quick clarification: It's somewhat unusuall for it to be recommended that 
all sites upgrade to a release candidate. Am I to understand that the 
recommendation is for sites running 2.1.9 release updates to the 2.1.10rc1 
-- or just those running previous 2.1.10 betas ?


==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 948-3162
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 15 17:56:51 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:56:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0804151137030.27712@westnet.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080415085651029693f09adb@msapiro>

Christopher X. Candreva wrote:

>On Mon, 14 Apr 2008, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> This is a security and bug fix release and it is highly recommended
>> that all sites upgrade to this version. Mailman 2.1.10 also adds support
>
>Quick clarification: It's somewhat unusuall for it to be recommended that 
>all sites upgrade to a release candidate. Am I to understand that the 
>recommendation is for sites running 2.1.9 release updates to the 2.1.10rc1 
>-- or just those running previous 2.1.10 betas ?


There are two security issues mentioned in the announcement. The first
of these was exposed and addressed in 2.1.10b1 and the second in
2.1.10rc1. That is the reason for the recommendation. However, per the
previously announced schedule, the 2.1.10 final release is expected to
be available on April 21, so if you've waited this long, you might as
well wait for the final.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 15 18:32:49 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:32:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] drop spam solution
In-Reply-To: <20080415110733.1r6kra43xmj7j4kk@webmail.his.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080415093249020301014ffc@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>Quoting Michael Geiger <gege at mgeiger.de>:
>
>> 2. create a new wrapper-script "mailman" (chown mailman:mailman, chmod 755):
>> ----- BEGIN -----
>> #!/bin/sh
>> /usr/bin/procmail -m /opt/mailman/mail/mailman.procmailrc $*
>> -----  END  -----
>>
>> 3. create the file "mailman.procmailrc" (chown mailman:mailman, chmod 644):
>> ----- BEGIN -----
>> :0
>> * ^X-Spam-Flag:.+YES
>> /dev/null
>>
>> :0
>> |/opt/mailman/mail/mailman-org $1 $2
>> -----  END  -----
>
>You can do all of this from within Mailman itself.  You don't need  
>procmail.  If anything, you've made your mail server configuration  
>more complex and more error-prone than it needs to be, in order to  
>achieve your goal.


But Michael's solution applies to all mail to any Mailman list or
list-* address.

I assume Brad is thinking of header_filter_rules which have to be set
per list and apply only to mail to the list and list-owner addresses.

Michael's solution doesn't require procmail per se, but it depends on
Mailman mail passing through some filter ahead of the mail wrapper
which will drop the SA flagged mail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mpatil at bu.edu  Tue Apr 15 21:11:01 2008
From: mpatil at bu.edu (Patil, Manjiri S)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:11:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email delays using Mailman and sendmail
Message-ID: <2DE012B637518B4BB1F1C1F4AA570FB8021A318B@ENG-EXCHANGE1.ad.bu.edu>

Hi, 

We have internal Mailing List server running Mailman 2.1.9 and SENDMAIL
8.13.8. Whenever someone sent email to particular mailing list
(everyone at managemant.bu.edu)consisting app 300 users recipients receive
it after several hours. E.g see the following Email I sent yesterday at
3:19PM that came in at 6:09 PM and some received at 7:09 PM. I don't
understand why there is so much delay when sending mail to 300 users
mailing list as oppose to Sending mail to 140 users list. 

Following is the part of SENDMAIL log when I sent message yesterday at
3:19PM

 

Apr 14 03:19:04 smgpub sendmail[20155]: m3E7J2PH020154:
to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post everyo

ne", ctladdr=<everyone at management.bu.edu> (8/0), delay=00:00:01,
xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=334

65, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

Apr 14 03:19:30 smgpub sendmail[20160]: m3E7JQre020157:
to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post everyo

ne", ctladdr=<everyone at management.bu.edu> (8/0), delay=00:00:01,
xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=370

92, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

Apr 14 03:19:31 smgpub sendmail[20162]: m3E7JV6N020162:
from=<everyone-bounces at management.bu.edu>, siz

e=8750, class=-60, nrcpts=1,
msgid=<mailman.1466.1208157569.20422.everyone at management.bu.edu>,
proto=E

SMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=smgsendmail.bu.edu [127.0.0.1]

 

How do I debug the problem ? Pls help . 

 

Manz

 

 

 


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Tue Apr 15 21:24:08 2008
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:24:08 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email delays using Mailman and sendmail
In-Reply-To: <2DE012B637518B4BB1F1C1F4AA570FB8021A318B@ENG-EXCHANGE1.ad.bu.edu>
References: <2DE012B637518B4BB1F1C1F4AA570FB8021A318B@ENG-EXCHANGE1.ad.bu.edu>
Message-ID: <20080415192408.GB14796@charite.de>

* Patil, Manjiri S <mpatil at bu.edu>:
> Hi, 
> 
> We have internal Mailing List server running Mailman 2.1.9 and SENDMAIL
> 8.13.8. Whenever someone sent email to particular mailing list
> (everyone at managemant.bu.edu)consisting app 300 users recipients receive
> it after several hours. E.g see the following Email I sent yesterday at
> 3:19PM that came in at 6:09 PM and some received at 7:09 PM. I don't
> understand why there is so much delay when sending mail to 300 users
> mailing list as oppose to Sending mail to 140 users list. 
> 
> Following is the part of SENDMAIL log when I sent message yesterday at
> 3:19PM
> 
>  
> 
> Apr 14 03:19:04 smgpub sendmail[20155]: m3E7J2PH020154:
> to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post everyone", ctladdr=<everyone at management.bu.edu> (8/0), delay=00:00:01,
> xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=33465, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> 
> Apr 14 03:19:30 smgpub sendmail[20160]: m3E7JQre020157:
> to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post everyone", ctladdr=<everyone at management.bu.edu> (8/0), delay=00:00:01,
> xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=37092, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent 

> Apr 14 03:19:31 smgpub sendmail[20162]: m3E7JV6N020162:
> from=<everyone-bounces at management.bu.edu>, size=8750, class=-60, nrcpts=1,
> msgid=<mailman.1466.1208157569.20422.everyone at management.bu.edu>,
> proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=smgsendmail.bu.edu [127.0.0.1]

I only see one recipient. "nrcpts=1". Where's the actual log?

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                 send no mail to snickebo at charite.de

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 15 22:03:18 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:03:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email delays using Mailman and sendmail
In-Reply-To: <20080415192408.GB14796@charite.de>
Message-ID: <PC176020080415130318021893f09a6c@msapiro>

Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:

>* Patil, Manjiri S <mpatil at bu.edu>:
>> Hi, 
>> 
>> We have internal Mailing List server running Mailman 2.1.9 and SENDMAIL
>> 8.13.8. Whenever someone sent email to particular mailing list
>> (everyone at managemant.bu.edu)consisting app 300 users recipients receive
>> it after several hours. E.g see the following Email I sent yesterday at
>> 3:19PM that came in at 6:09 PM and some received at 7:09 PM. I don't
>> understand why there is so much delay when sending mail to 300 users
>> mailing list as oppose to Sending mail to 140 users list. 
>> 
>> Following is the part of SENDMAIL log when I sent message yesterday at
>> 3:19PM
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Apr 14 03:19:04 smgpub sendmail[20155]: m3E7J2PH020154:
>> to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post everyone", ctladdr=<everyone at management.bu.edu> (8/0), delay=00:00:01,
>> xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=33465, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
>> 
>> Apr 14 03:19:30 smgpub sendmail[20160]: m3E7JQre020157:
>> to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post everyone", ctladdr=<everyone at management.bu.edu> (8/0), delay=00:00:01,
>> xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=37092, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent 
>
>> Apr 14 03:19:31 smgpub sendmail[20162]: m3E7JV6N020162:
>> from=<everyone-bounces at management.bu.edu>, size=8750, class=-60, nrcpts=1,
>> msgid=<mailman.1466.1208157569.20422.everyone at management.bu.edu>,
>> proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=smgsendmail.bu.edu [127.0.0.1]
>
>I only see one recipient. "nrcpts=1". Where's the actual log?


Furthermore, that message has a Mailman generated Message-ID so it's a
notification. It could be an autoresponse to the poster or it could be
a 'held message' notice to the list owner.

What's in Mailman's vette, smtp and smtp-failure logs?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cwieland at uci.edu  Tue Apr 15 22:35:58 2008
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:35:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments
Message-ID: <F47FF07E-70B1-40EE-BEF7-81D9448AE42B@uci.edu>

I am having trouble understanding what is going on with the  
attachments and archives. I have a message being sent to the list  
that appears to be text with a pdf attachment. With Mac mail I  
receive it as expected showing both the text and the attachment. When  
I go to the archives though I get the message text plus

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/test/attachments/ 
20080415/846539df/attachment-0002.html
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: jeffrey_vallance.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 161144 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/test/attachments/ 
20080415/846539df/attachment-0001.pdf
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/test/attachments/ 
20080415/846539df/attachment-0003.html

My questions are,  why am I getting the html attachments?  and why  
are they jibberish?  The pdf is fine.

The messages that are jibberish seem to be:

--Apple-Mail-11-192818268
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks in advance
Con Wieland
University of California at Irvine

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 15 22:46:39 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:46:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "topics"
In-Reply-To: <041520080408.4213.48042A390005EE9E000010752200734830050E0A9F020A099D0A0D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602008041513463905629bd6eb99@msapiro>

bergenpeak at comcast.net wrote:
>
>Is there a way to set a user's topics via a cli command?   


You can do this with a withlist script such as the set_topics.py.txt
script attached. You would save this in Mailman's bin/ directory as
set_topics.py and run it via

  bin/withlist -l -r set_topics <list> <user-email> [<topic> ...]'

where <list> is the list name, <user-email> is the address of the
member and these are followed by zero or more topic names which will
become the topics the user is subscribed to (zero topics will remove
any subscribed topics, one or more will replace any subscribed topics
with the ones given).

Alternatively, you can use wget or something similar to send the
appropriate data to the user options CGI. See
<http://www.google.com/search?&q=site%3Amail.python.org++inurl%3Amailman++wget>
for some examples of using wget.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 15 22:51:13 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:51:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "topics"
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008041513463905629bd6eb99@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC176020080415135113087524a5c1d8@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>You can do this with a withlist script such as the set_topics.py.txt
>script attached. You would save this in Mailman's bin/ directory as
>set_topics.py and run it via
>
>  bin/withlist -l -r set_topics <list> <user-email> [<topic> ...]'


Sorry, I forgot the attachment. Here it is.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: set_topics.py.txt
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20080415/94001ea3/attachment.txt 

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 15 23:58:44 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:58:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments
In-Reply-To: <F47FF07E-70B1-40EE-BEF7-81D9448AE42B@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804151458440031f044ba8b@msapiro>

Con Wieland wrote:

>I am having trouble understanding what is going on with the  
>attachments and archives. I have a message being sent to the list  
>that appears to be text with a pdf attachment. With Mac mail I  
>receive it as expected showing both the text and the attachment. When  
>I go to the archives though I get the message text plus
>
>-------------- next part --------------
>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/test/attachments/ 
>20080415/846539df/attachment-0002.html
>-------------- next part --------------
>A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>Name: jeffrey_vallance.pdf
>Type: application/pdf
>Size: 161144 bytes
>Desc: not available
>Url : http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/test/attachments/ 
>20080415/846539df/attachment-0001.pdf
>-------------- next part --------------
>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/test/attachments/ 
>20080415/846539df/attachment-0003.html


So, it looks like the message structure is something like

multipart/mixed
    multipart/alternative
        text/plain        (the plain text you see in the archive)
        text/html         (the html version which is
                           attachment-0002.html in the archive)
    application/pdf       (the pdf attachment which is
                           attachment-0001.pdf in the archive)
    text/html             (appears to be a (empty) footer added
                           probably by the sender's MUA. This
                           is attachment-0003.html in the archive)



>My questions are,  why am I getting the html attachments?


Because the sender's MUA is sending them and your content filtering is
either not on or is not removing HTML and not collapsing alternatives.

>and why  
>are they jibberish?


They are not gibberish. They are HTML shown to you as raw rather than
rendered HTML.

The attachment-0002.html appears to be an announcement for "Beyond
Field: A Guide Through Practice and Discipline" which is what I assume
the original plain text is too. If you visit that link
(<http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/test/attachments/20080415/846539df/attachment-0002.html>,
and copy the text and paste it into a file named xxx.html and open
that file in a web browser, you'll see a rendered version which is
probably what you saw in your mail client rather than the plain text.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cwieland at uci.edu  Wed Apr 16 00:29:19 2008
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:29:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200804151458440031f044ba8b@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200804151458440031f044ba8b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <D9385BC1-E577-40DC-8739-1B986C8042E3@uci.edu>


On Apr 15, 2008, at 2:58 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Con Wieland wrote:
>
>> I am having trouble understanding what is going on with the
>> attachments and archives. I have a message being sent to the list
>> that appears to be text with a pdf attachment. With Mac mail I
>> receive it as expected showing both the text and the attachment. When
>> I go to the archives though I get the message text plus
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/test/attachments/
>> 20080415/846539df/attachment-0002.html
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> Name: jeffrey_vallance.pdf
>> Type: application/pdf
>> Size: 161144 bytes
>> Desc: not available
>> Url : http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/test/attachments/
>> 20080415/846539df/attachment-0001.pdf
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/test/attachments/
>> 20080415/846539df/attachment-0003.html
>
>
> So, it looks like the message structure is something like
>
> multipart/mixed
>     multipart/alternative
>         text/plain        (the plain text you see in the archive)
>         text/html         (the html version which is
>                            attachment-0002.html in the archive)
>     application/pdf       (the pdf attachment which is
>                            attachment-0001.pdf in the archive)
>     text/html             (appears to be a (empty) footer added
>                            probably by the sender's MUA. This
>                            is attachment-0003.html in the archive)
>
>
>
>> My questions are,  why am I getting the html attachments?
>
>
> Because the sender's MUA is sending them and your content filtering is
> either not on or is not removing HTML and not collapsing alternatives.

Correct it was not on for this example but when I turn it on and select:

Remove message attachments that have a matching content type.			text/ 
html

I lose the pdf too. How can I configure it to just remove the text/ 
html and leave the text/plain and application/pdf ?


>
>> and why
>> are they jibberish?
>
>
> They are not gibberish. They are HTML shown to you as raw rather than
> rendered HTML.

Yes, gibberish was not the right word. But why aren't they rendered  
when I click on the link. I am used to just being able to open the  
link and have them rendered.

con

>
> The attachment-0002.html appears to be an announcement for "Beyond
> Field: A Guide Through Practice and Discipline" which is what I assume
> the original plain text is too. If you visit that link
> (<http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/test/attachments/ 
> 20080415/846539df/attachment-0002.html>,
> and copy the text and paste it into a file named xxx.html and open
> that file in a web browser, you'll see a rendered version which is
> probably what you saw in your mail client rather than the plain text.
>
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 16 01:07:13 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:07:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments
In-Reply-To: <D9385BC1-E577-40DC-8739-1B986C8042E3@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020080415160713001501014f1c@msapiro>

Con Wieland wrote:
>
>On Apr 15, 2008, at 2:58 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Con Wieland wrote:
>>
>>> My questions are,  why am I getting the html attachments?
>>
>>
>> Because the sender's MUA is sending them and your content filtering is
>> either not on or is not removing HTML and not collapsing alternatives.
>
>Correct it was not on for this example but when I turn it on and select:
>
>Remove message attachments that have a matching content type.			text/ 
>html
>
>I lose the pdf too. How can I configure it to just remove the text/ 
>html and leave the text/plain and application/pdf ?


It depends on how you want to approach things. You can either specify
what you want to accept and filter the rest, or specify what you don't
want and accept the rest. This means you want to specify only one of
filter_mime_types and pass_mime_types and the other should be empty.

If you want to accept any text/plain parts from the message or an
attached (forwarded as attachment) message and likewise for PDFs and
not accept anything else, set filter_mime_types empty and
pass_mime_types to

multipart
message/rfc822
text/plain
application/pdf

If you want to accept everything except html, you would put text/html
in filter_mime_types and leave pass_mime_types empty, but this is
probably a very bad idea. The first problem that comes to mind is you
will pass the plain text from a multipart alternative message and also
pass the stationery background/watermark image file but remove the
html that references the image leaving it as a simple attachment.


>>> and why
>>> are they jibberish?
>>
>>
>> They are not gibberish. They are HTML shown to you as raw rather than
>> rendered HTML.
>
>Yes, gibberish was not the right word. But why aren't they rendered  
>when I click on the link. I am used to just being able to open the  
>link and have them rendered.


Because you don't want a list member posting an HTML message with evil
javascript and getting it stored as renderable html on your web site.
There is an mm_cfg.py setting to allow this, but here's what we say
about it in Defaults.py.

># This variable defines what happens to text/html subparts.  They can be
># stripped completely, escaped, or filtered through an external program.  The
># legal values are:
># 0 - Strip out text/html parts completely, leaving a notice of the removal in
>#     the message.  If the outer part is text/html, the entire message is
>#     discarded.
># 1 - Remove any embedded text/html parts, leaving them as HTML-escaped
>#     attachments which can be separately viewed.  Outer text/html parts are
>#     simply HTML-escaped.
># 2 - Leave it inline, but HTML-escape it
># 3 - Remove text/html as attachments but don't HTML-escape them. Note: this
>#     is very dangerous because it essentially means anybody can send an HTML
>#     email to your site containing evil JavaScript or web bugs, or other
>#     nasty things, and folks viewing your archives will be susceptible.  You
>#     should only consider this option if you do heavy moderation of your list
>#     postings.
<snip>
>ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER = 1

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From yahoo at jimpop.com  Wed Apr 16 01:24:46 2008
From: yahoo at jimpop.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:24:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080415085651029693f09adb@msapiro>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0804151137030.27712@westnet.com>
	<PC176020080415085651029693f09adb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <7ff145960804151624u316420ddwd822eae02bcd5281@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:56 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
>  There are two security issues mentioned in the announcement.

<harsh criticism>
How much sense does it make to announce security issues in a release
CANDIDATE?   Come on guys, release a STABLE version (or FIX), then
announce.  <--- Standard Operation Procedures.
</harsh criticism>

Quit feeding the enemy instead of your supporters.

Thx,

-Jim P.

From Luke.Daly at newcastle.edu.au  Wed Apr 16 02:19:22 2008
From: Luke.Daly at newcastle.edu.au (Luke Daly)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:19:22 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam issue
Message-ID: <4805D2AA.7D71.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au>

I have a large list (22000) users. it is configured with the following settings :
Action to take when a moderated member posts to the list. = Discard
Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is defined. = Discard
All users are moderated except where they are an administrator or moderator.

We have turned emergency moderation on due to some spam email from non members coming through mailman. this caused some upset. I have been tasked to find out how this happened. as the config suggests it should have been immediately discarded. when attempting to view the list in the web admin screen if you go to membership management it will time out. 

Has this behaviour been seen before?

Any help in this regard would be appreciated as I like mailman software and would like to respond to the pressure I am getting to replace it with something else.

                                 

Luke Daly
Systems Officer
IT Infrastructure
Newcastle University
17000
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you are not an authorised recipient of this e-mail, please reply to the sender of this e-mail indicating that you are not the intended recipient. In this case, you should not print, re-transmit to another party, store or act in reliance on this e-mail or any attachments, and should destroy all copies of them. This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may contain legally privileged information and/or copyright material of the sender or third parties. You should only re-transmit, distribute or commercialise the material if you are authorised to do so.
 

 



From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 16 02:42:57 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:42:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam issue
In-Reply-To: <4805D2AA.7D71.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <PC176020080415174257085901015294@msapiro>

Luke Daly wrote:

>I have a large list (22000) users. it is configured with the following settings :
>Action to take when a moderated member posts to the list. = Discard
>Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is defined. = Discard
>All users are moderated except where they are an administrator or moderator.


This is the problem. Did you see Brad's reply at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-April/061236.html>
to your previous post.

This is not a secure way to set up an announcement list. Anyone can
send a post to the list spoofing the From: as one of the
admin/moderator addresses. This might even happen accidentally with
spam sent to a list spoofing the From: and just by chance hitting one
of the unmoderated addresses.


The secure way to handle posting to an announce list is to moderate
everyone. Then if you want to discard or reject posts from members,
you post from non-member addresses which you add to
hold_these_nonmembers, and then have an admin/moderator approve the
held post.

Alternatively, if you want to be able to post without the post being
held, the authorized posters need to know the list moderator password.
They then put the header

Approved: password

where 'password' is the list admin or moderator password either as an
actual header in the post or as the first line of the first plain text
part of the posted message. This is discussed in Brad's reply and in
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>
which he referred to and also in
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.034.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Apr 16 02:49:59 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:49:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <7ff145960804151624u316420ddwd822eae02bcd5281@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0804151137030.27712@westnet.com>
	<PC176020080415085651029693f09adb@msapiro>
	<7ff145960804151624u316420ddwd822eae02bcd5281@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <36838.144.189.5.201.1208306999.squirrel@www.crimson-dragon.com>


On Tue, April 15, 2008 16:24, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:56 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>>
>>  There are two security issues mentioned in the announcement.
>
> <harsh criticism>
> How much sense does it make to announce security issues in a release
> CANDIDATE?   Come on guys, release a STABLE version (or FIX), then
> announce.  <--- Standard Operation Procedures.
> </harsh criticism>
>
> Quit feeding the enemy instead of your supporters.
>
> Thx,
>
> -Jim P.


I'm going to be harshly critical as well. Did you even read the release
notes in the announcement?

You are completely off base here. While Mark did not explicitly say so in
his reply, the fixes for the security problems noted are in the release.
If you had read the notes, you would see that. I suggest you go back and
read the original announcement in full.

I'm currently using the 2.1.10b4 release and it has been quite stable
since I went to it. I have no qualms about moving to the 2.1.10rc1 release
and will do so as soon as I can manage the time to do it.

My experience has been that by the time a release candidate is announced
by this project, it is usually quite close to the final version and the
only changes that are made in a stable release are often just translation
issues.


-- 
Dragon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From yahoo at jimpop.com  Wed Apr 16 03:08:26 2008
From: yahoo at jimpop.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:08:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <36838.144.189.5.201.1208306999.squirrel@www.crimson-dragon.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0804151137030.27712@westnet.com>
	<PC176020080415085651029693f09adb@msapiro>
	<7ff145960804151624u316420ddwd822eae02bcd5281@mail.gmail.com>
	<36838.144.189.5.201.1208306999.squirrel@www.crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <7ff145960804151808g72ac8f0ct39f186038b5a2172@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 8:49 PM, Dragon <dragon at crimson-dragon.com> wrote:
>  I'm going to be harshly critical as well. Did you even read the release
>  notes in the announcement?

Yes, I did.

>  You are completely off base here. While Mark did not explicitly say so in
>  his reply, the fixes for the security problems noted are in the release.

You seem to think that all sites will magically dig the fix out of a
RC release to apply to 2.1.9  or less install.

>  If you had read the notes, you would see that. I suggest you go back and
>  read the original announcement in full.

You are assuming, incorrectly, that I never read it.

>  I'm currently using the 2.1.10b4 release and it has been quite stable
>  since I went to it. I have no qualms about moving to the 2.1.10rc1 release
>  and will do so as soon as I can manage the time to do it.
>
>  My experience has been that by the time a release candidate is announced
>  by this project, it is usually quite close to the final version and the
>  only changes that are made in a stable release are often just translation
>  issues.

That is *your* experience, but that may only be unique to *you*.
Quit thinking that *your* scenario works in everyone else's model.

Through out this whole 2.1.10 RC process, Mark has implied over and
over that the RC (release CANDIDATE) was recommended for immediate
replacement of all previous versions of Mailman.  I questioned that a
month ago, and was told that the release CANDIDATE contained security
fixes not available to prior versions.   Everyone now knows what those
vulnerabilities are, but there is no *fix* for prior versions, nor is
there a *stable* (i.e. non-release CANDIDATE) available with the
fixes.   Sure the release CANDIDATE might work in some situations, but
what about those environments where only final releases, or
non-development code, are permitted by policy?

-Jim P.

From barry at python.org  Wed Apr 16 03:10:46 2008
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:10:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <36838.144.189.5.201.1208306999.squirrel@www.crimson-dragon.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0804151137030.27712@westnet.com>
	<PC176020080415085651029693f09adb@msapiro>
	<7ff145960804151624u316420ddwd822eae02bcd5281@mail.gmail.com>
	<36838.144.189.5.201.1208306999.squirrel@www.crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <FB3167D8-4C00-4CAA-8F99-C7D14B0B2E9B@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Apr 15, 2008, at 8:49 PM, Dragon wrote:

> My experience has been that by the time a release candidate is  
> announced
> by this project, it is usually quite close to the final version and  
> the
> only changes that are made in a stable release are often just  
> translation
> issues.

Besides, our entire source code is freely available, as is the archive  
of our commit messages.  We actually embargo certain commits until a  
time that we and the security professionals we work with agree, but  
once the changes are committed, I think you can pretty much treat them  
as being exposed publicly.  Better to get a release out asap after  
that and let the community know that there are important fixes  
contained within.

- -Barry

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin)

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fkEqw7ehl60=
=HS13
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From yahoo at jimpop.com  Wed Apr 16 03:18:02 2008
From: yahoo at jimpop.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:18:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <FB3167D8-4C00-4CAA-8F99-C7D14B0B2E9B@python.org>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0804151137030.27712@westnet.com>
	<PC176020080415085651029693f09adb@msapiro>
	<7ff145960804151624u316420ddwd822eae02bcd5281@mail.gmail.com>
	<36838.144.189.5.201.1208306999.squirrel@www.crimson-dragon.com>
	<FB3167D8-4C00-4CAA-8F99-C7D14B0B2E9B@python.org>
Message-ID: <7ff145960804151818q107d31b4p3756e3f05b2369ab@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 9:10 PM, Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:
> Better to get a release out asap after  that and let the community know
> that there are important fixes contained within.

Fair enough.  Where's the release then?

Look, I know you folks are working hard on this, and I certainly don't
dis-respect that.  HOWEVER, the process flow needs some re-thinking.
You should not publicly release security vulnerability details before
fixes are identified for current versions.   I can't imagine that you
don't already know that.

-Jim P.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Apr 16 03:44:34 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:44:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <7ff145960804151818q107d31b4p3756e3f05b2369ab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0804151137030.27712@westnet.com>
	<PC176020080415085651029693f09adb@msapiro>
	<7ff145960804151624u316420ddwd822eae02bcd5281@mail.gmail.com>
	<36838.144.189.5.201.1208306999.squirrel@www.crimson-dragon.com>
	<FB3167D8-4C00-4CAA-8F99-C7D14B0B2E9B@python.org>
	<7ff145960804151818q107d31b4p3756e3f05b2369ab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080415214434.gxnr10636lcgsksg@webmail.his.com>

Quoting Jim Popovitch <yahoo at jimpop.com>:

> Fair enough.  Where's the release then?

Dragon is right -- the code is up-to-date and waiting for translation,  
as do pretty much all RCs released by this project.

> Look, I know you folks are working hard on this, and I certainly don't
> dis-respect that.

Actions speak louder than words, and your actions in this case tell me  
that you most definitely *do* dis-respect us.

Feel free to act in some other manner that proves me wrong.

>                    HOWEVER, the process flow needs some re-thinking.
> You should not publicly release security vulnerability details before
> fixes are identified for current versions.   I can't imagine that you
> don't already know that.

I don't care what you think.  You don't run this project.  We have to  
support a wide variety of languages, and we can't just release an  
English-only version when we think it's ready.

The best we can do is to put out an RC and tell people what the  
reasons are for wanting to upgrade to this code, so long as they know  
it's only going to be available in limited numbers of languages.   
Others can wait for the updated versions that support their language  
of choice.

Each person installing or running Mailman gets to make their own  
choice as to when they're going to pull that trigger.  The security  
notices are out there, there is an RC available which addresses them.   
If you feel the burning need to have the latest and greatest code  
which avoids the more recent security issues, then go and install the  
RC.


But unless you're putting up the money to run this entire project out  
of your own personal pocket, I'm tired of listening to you bitch at us  
for not following your rules regarding how a release should be done.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From yahoo at jimpop.com  Wed Apr 16 03:56:42 2008
From: yahoo at jimpop.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:56:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <20080415214434.gxnr10636lcgsksg@webmail.his.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0804151137030.27712@westnet.com>
	<PC176020080415085651029693f09adb@msapiro>
	<7ff145960804151624u316420ddwd822eae02bcd5281@mail.gmail.com>
	<36838.144.189.5.201.1208306999.squirrel@www.crimson-dragon.com>
	<FB3167D8-4C00-4CAA-8F99-C7D14B0B2E9B@python.org>
	<7ff145960804151818q107d31b4p3756e3f05b2369ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080415214434.gxnr10636lcgsksg@webmail.his.com>
Message-ID: <7ff145960804151856l3e39846ck702bc97c7f423a99@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 9:44 PM, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
> Quoting Jim Popovitch <yahoo at jimpop.com>:
>
>
> > Fair enough.  Where's the release then?
> >
>
>  Dragon is right -- the code is up-to-date and waiting for translation, as
> do pretty much all RCs released by this project.
>
>
>
> > Look, I know you folks are working hard on this, and I certainly don't
> > dis-respect that.
> >
>
>  Actions speak louder than words, and your actions in this case tell me that
> you most definitely *do* dis-respect us.
>
>  Feel free to act in some other manner that proves me wrong.
>
>
>
> >                   HOWEVER, the process flow needs some re-thinking.
> > You should not publicly release security vulnerability details before
> > fixes are identified for current versions.   I can't imagine that you
> > don't already know that.
> >
>
>  I don't care what you think.  You don't run this project.  We have to
> support a wide variety of languages, and we can't just release an
> English-only version when we think it's ready.
>
>  The best we can do is to put out an RC and tell people what the reasons are
> for wanting to upgrade to this code, so long as they know it's only going to
> be available in limited numbers of languages.  Others can wait for the
> updated versions that support their language of choice.
>
>  Each person installing or running Mailman gets to make their own choice as
> to when they're going to pull that trigger.  The security notices are out
> there, there is an RC available which addresses them.  If you feel the
> burning need to have the latest and greatest code which avoids the more
> recent security issues, then go and install the RC.
>
>
>  But unless you're putting up the money to run this entire project out of
> your own personal pocket, I'm tired of listening to you bitch at us for not
> following your rules regarding how a release should be done.

Nice.

Sad too.

-Jim P.

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 16 05:04:12 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:04:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <7ff145960804151818q107d31b4p3756e3f05b2369ab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804152004120953fa95c1e5@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
>
>Fair enough.  Where's the release then?
>
>Look, I know you folks are working hard on this, and I certainly don't
>dis-respect that.  HOWEVER, the process flow needs some re-thinking.
>You should not publicly release security vulnerability details before
>fixes are identified for current versions.   I can't imagine that you
>don't already know that.


I appreciate your view Jim, and I was remis in not making patches for
2.1.9 publicly announced and available[1], however, if you don't trust
my 2.1.10 beta or rc release to be stable enough for production use,
why would you think my patches for 2.1.9 would be any better?

I really am faced with only two choices. Commit my fixes to the
publicly available source tree so they can be exposed and tested in a
wide variety of environments during the beta release phase, which
process necessarily also exposes the vulnerabilities that they fix to
the world, or sit on my patches and release them untested by others in
the final release.


[1]Patches for CVE-2008-0564 were made available to those who asked,
and a google search will show that some distros have been patched,
although Ubuntu for example
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mailman/+bug/199338> calls
it "low" importance.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Apr 16 05:17:35 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:17:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <7ff145960804151856l3e39846ck702bc97c7f423a99@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0804151137030.27712@westnet.com>
	<PC176020080415085651029693f09adb@msapiro>
	<7ff145960804151624u316420ddwd822eae02bcd5281@mail.gmail.com>
	<36838.144.189.5.201.1208306999.squirrel@www.crimson-dragon.com>
	<FB3167D8-4C00-4CAA-8F99-C7D14B0B2E9B@python.org>
	<7ff145960804151818q107d31b4p3756e3f05b2369ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080415214434.gxnr10636lcgsksg@webmail.his.com>
	<7ff145960804151856l3e39846ck702bc97c7f423a99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C20BD8AB-7DFF-4A81-90F5-69986E09D301@shub-internet.org>

If you want to do something that is actually productive here, why  
don't you find a way to use your own resources and your own personal  
free time to resolve this issue?

Maybe you could run a very large mailing list server you'd be willing  
to use as a guinea pig for all RC's, so that we would have an  
independent certification process, whereby you willingly sign away  
your first born if the code proved to have bugs in it, even after you  
certified it as being perfect.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-Internet.org>

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 15, 2008, at 8:56 PM, "Jim Popovitch" <yahoo at jimpop.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 9:44 PM, Brad Knowles <brad at shub- 
> internet.org> wrote:
>> Quoting Jim Popovitch <yahoo at jimpop.com>:
>>
>>
>>> Fair enough.  Where's the release then?
>>>
>>
>> Dragon is right -- the code is up-to-date and waiting for  
>> translation, as
>> do pretty much all RCs released by this project.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Look, I know you folks are working hard on this, and I certainly  
>>> don't
>>> dis-respect that.
>>>
>>
>> Actions speak louder than words, and your actions in this case tell  
>> me that
>> you most definitely *do* dis-respect us.
>>
>> Feel free to act in some other manner that proves me wrong.
>>
>>
>>
>>>                  HOWEVER, the process flow needs some re-thinking.
>>> You should not publicly release security vulnerability details  
>>> before
>>> fixes are identified for current versions.   I can't imagine that  
>>> you
>>> don't already know that.
>>>
>>
>> I don't care what you think.  You don't run this project.  We have to
>> support a wide variety of languages, and we can't just release an
>> English-only version when we think it's ready.
>>
>> The best we can do is to put out an RC and tell people what the  
>> reasons are
>> for wanting to upgrade to this code, so long as they know it's only  
>> going to
>> be available in limited numbers of languages.  Others can wait for  
>> the
>> updated versions that support their language of choice.
>>
>> Each person installing or running Mailman gets to make their own  
>> choice as
>> to when they're going to pull that trigger.  The security notices  
>> are out
>> there, there is an RC available which addresses them.  If you feel  
>> the
>> burning need to have the latest and greatest code which avoids the  
>> more
>> recent security issues, then go and install the RC.
>>
>>
>> But unless you're putting up the money to run this entire project  
>> out of
>> your own personal pocket, I'm tired of listening to you bitch at us  
>> for not
>> following your rules regarding how a release should be done.
>
> Nice.
>
> Sad too.
>
> -Jim P.

From yahoo at jimpop.com  Wed Apr 16 06:21:46 2008
From: yahoo at jimpop.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:21:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200804152004120953fa95c1e5@msapiro>
References: <7ff145960804151818q107d31b4p3756e3f05b2369ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200804152004120953fa95c1e5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <7ff145960804152121s1b778be0p849b27206f61ed93@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:04 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>  I appreciate your view Jim, and I was remis in not making patches for
>  2.1.9 publicly announced and available[1], however, if you don't trust
>  my 2.1.10 beta or rc release to be stable enough for production use,
>  why would you think my patches for 2.1.9 would be any better?

That's a very interesting, and good, question.  From my point of view,
which may be different from others, it depends on the situation and
need for patching.   For instance, there is more than "./configure"
and "make install" involved in a complex setup.  Additionally, I have
local patches for things that my sites need.   Setting all that up
takes time, and (in a normal day) if there is soon to be another
release I have to pause and judge whether my time is best spent on RC1
or the Final build.  NOTE:  I, like most reading this, would devote
much greater attention if there was a appearance of urgent need to
test specific fixes.  For the most part 2.1.10 (to me) appeared to be
some behind the scenes XSS fixes and nothing more.  So, assuming
Development had it under control (and by all accounts they did), why
would I spend 1 weekend setting up and testing RC1 when the Final
would be out in 2 weeks and I would have to do all that effort again?
 Now if 2.1.10 was a code fix release for dying processes, and if my
Mailman systems were experiencing dying processes, then my desire to
test early and often would be driven by my desire to have a stable
install (even at the RC level).  However Mailman 2.1.9  has been very
stable for me (THANK YOU) and so I don't know that I have anything to
test in the RC that I won't be testing for in the Final.  Hidden in
that text is the admission that I trust you (Mark, Barry, etc.) to
release 2.1.10 with as few of changes from 2.1.9 as necessary.   If
2.1.10 were a complete re-write, then obviously my thoughts on this
would be different.  For the record, Mark, I would always be willing
to at least look at future patches and give you a reasoned response as
to whether I could even test it or not.

>  I really am faced with only two choices. Commit my fixes to the
>  publicly available source tree so they can be exposed and tested in a
>  wide variety of environments during the beta release phase, which
>  process necessarily also exposes the vulnerabilities that they fix to
>  the world, or sit on my patches and release them untested by others in
>  the final release.

I can appreciate the significance of that situation.  I don't know
that I have a solution other than to ask what does ClamAV or
SpamAssassin do in similar situations?   I believe I shepherded the
idea, some time ago, of the need for a closed Mailman security team of
both developers and involved site administrators.   I would say if a
proven trusted group of Mailman site administrators privately
discussed and tested a security fix, then I would have no problem with
fixes being committed and released at once.  Although a "heads up!"
would be nice too. ;-)

>  [1]Patches for CVE-2008-0564 were made available to those who asked,
>  and a google search will show that some distros have been patched,
>  although Ubuntu for example
>  <https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mailman/+bug/199338> calls
>  it "low" importance.

Well, I gave up running Ubuntu on servers (although I still do on my
laptop) specifically because I didn't like there approach to things
like having NetworkManager installed/enabled by default on a Server
install. ;-)

-Jim P.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Apr 16 06:34:04 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:34:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <7ff145960804152121s1b778be0p849b27206f61ed93@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7ff145960804151818q107d31b4p3756e3f05b2369ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200804152004120953fa95c1e5@msapiro>
	<7ff145960804152121s1b778be0p849b27206f61ed93@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240803c42b3126a631@[192.168.1.199]>

On 4/16/08, Jim Popovitch wrote:

>  I can appreciate the significance of that situation.  I don't know
>  that I have a solution other than to ask what does ClamAV or
>  SpamAssassin do in similar situations?

Dunno.  Do they have to support twenty different languages?

Can those translations only be started once the mainline 
English-language code has been frozen, because the strings in the 
English-language version are used as the keys for the translated 
versions of the strings in other the other languages?

>                                           I believe I shepherded the
>  idea, some time ago, of the need for a closed Mailman security team of
>  both developers and involved site administrators.

There is one.  See FAQ 1.27.  It's secure enough that even I don't 
have access to it, although I'm sure that Barry, Mark, Tokio, and 
other critical people do.

>                                                      I would say if a
>  proven trusted group of Mailman site administrators privately
>  discussed and tested a security fix, then I would have no problem with
>  fixes being committed and released at once.

That's what you've got with the way RCs are handled today.

>                                               Although a "heads up!"
>  would be nice too. ;-)

That's what you've got with the way RCs are handled today.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brillig at dsl.pipex.com  Wed Apr 16 16:35:09 2008
From: brillig at dsl.pipex.com (Dave Hillam)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:35:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Third party unsubscribe request
Message-ID: <613268951.20080416153509@dsl.pipex.com>

Hi all

A different theme from the usual malicious subscription request, one
of my list members has just received a confirmation e-mail generated
by someone else. He is adamant it is not him, he is a long-standing
list member and I am inclined to believe him.

Now, the response includes the standard text:-

"If you do not wish to be removed from this list, please simply
disregard this message.  If you think you are being maliciously
removed from the list, or have any other questions, send them to
<email> ".

But - other than tell him to ignore the unsubscribe request, what can
I do as listadmin in these circumstances? I suspect this may be a
one-off (it's a friendly list), but I'd like to know just in case we
have someone messing around.

(I've looked through the FAQ and the list archive, but can't trace
anything on this).

TIA

Dave Hillam
mailto:brillig at dsl.pipex.com


From giulio at troccoli.it  Wed Apr 16 16:54:27 2008
From: giulio at troccoli.it (Giulio Troccoli)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:54:27 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Again on HTML emails
Message-ID: <9618.213.86.135.44.1208357667.squirrel@www.troccoli.it>

I need to send HTML email, or better I need to be able to do so. I've read
a lot of posts that say how to prevent HTML emails to be sent, but I can't
seem to be able to set mailman to accept them.

I used to use another system to manage my mailing lists that didn't have
any problems with HTML email. My "users" are used to receive HTML emails
so it's not a problem that they can't read them. I'm glad I changed the
old system to mailman and I will be fine even if I have to send plain text
emails. Still, I'd like to be able to send HTML.

I have a script that builds the email in a nice file and send it using
sendmail with the -t option. The email starts as follows

From: Giulio <giulio at troccoli.it>
To: test at troccoli.it
Subject:  Febbraio 2008
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="email.html"
Content-Base: http://www.troccoli.it

and then some HTML.

Without any content filtering set up in mailman the email is delivered as
an HTML attachement, which is sort of alright. So I tried switching
content filtering on. I added text/html to the pass_mime_types (which now
contains multipart/mixed, multipart/alternative, text/plain and text/html)
but the email is now rejected (filter_mime_types is empty). I will
eventually set convert_html_to_plaintext to No, but I need to sort this
first. Anyone has any idea what I'm doing wrong? (and don't tell me, yes,
sending HTML emails :-)

Giulio


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 16 17:13:38 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:13:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Third party unsubscribe request
In-Reply-To: <613268951.20080416153509@dsl.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080416081338088578d054db@msapiro>

Dave Hillam wrote:
>
>But - other than tell him to ignore the unsubscribe request, what can
>I do as listadmin in these circumstances? I suspect this may be a
>one-off (it's a friendly list), but I'd like to know just in case we
>have someone messing around.


Anyone can request unsubscription for anyone else via the user options
login page or via a spoofed From: in an email to list-leave or
list-unsubscribe or an unsubscribe command to list-request. One can
also request unsubscribe for another via a "unsubscribe address=xxx"
command to list-request.

Most of these pretty much have to be intentional, but if you have a
personalized list with a footer similar to the

Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/user%40example.com

footer added to messages from this list, it is possible that your list
member forwarded a list message containing that link to someone else,
and the recipient followed the link and clicked "Unsubscribe" thinking
she was unsubscribing herself from a list.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 16 17:21:39 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:21:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Again on HTML emails
In-Reply-To: <9618.213.86.135.44.1208357667.squirrel@www.troccoli.it>
Message-ID: <PC176020080416082139040078d052f7@msapiro>

Giulio Troccoli wrote:
>
>Without any content filtering set up in mailman the email is delivered as
>an HTML attachement, which is sort of alright.


Presumably, the message 'body' in this case is your msg_header. If you
remove the msg_header - i.e. make it empty, not just blank - it won't
be added and the 'body' will be the html part. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp>
for more on this.


>So I tried switching
>content filtering on. I added text/html to the pass_mime_types (which now
>contains multipart/mixed, multipart/alternative, text/plain and text/html)
>but the email is now rejected (filter_mime_types is empty).


I don't understand why unless filter_mime_types is not truly empty but
contains some whitespace.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mpatil at bu.edu  Wed Apr 16 18:03:09 2008
From: mpatil at bu.edu (Patil, Manjiri S)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:03:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email response very slow using Mailman and sendmail
Message-ID: <2DE012B637518B4BB1F1C1F4AA570FB8021A390D@ENG-EXCHANGE1.ad.bu.edu>

Hi, 

We have internal Mailing List server running Mailman 2.1.9 and SENDMAIL
8.13.8. Whenever someone sent email to particular mailing list
(everyone at managemant.bu.edu)consisting app 300 users recipients receive
it after several hours. E.g see the following Email I sent on Apr14th at
3:19PM that came in at 6:09 PM and some received at 7:09 PM. I don't
understand why there is so much delay when sending mail to 300 users
mailing list. I clearly see in Outlook headers that the mail is sitting
on Mailman for approximately 2hours . 


OUTLOOK headers :
Received: from smgpub.bu.edu (smgsendmail.bu.edu [127.0.0.1])
>            by smgpub.bu.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 
>m3ELf9u3001743;
>            Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:41:09 -0400
>
>Received: from relay1.bu.edu (relay1.bu.edu [128.197.27.99])
>            by smgpub.bu.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id
>m3EJJgII032663
>            for <everyone at management.bu.edu>; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:19:42

>-0400


Here is the corresponding SENDMAIL Log.

 
>>Apr 14 15:19:42 smgpub sendmail[32663]: m3EJJgII032663:
from=<mpatil at bu.edu>, size=2721, class=0, nrcpt s=1,
msgid=<2DE012B637518B4BB1F1C1F4AA570FB802148BC1 at ENG-EXCHANGE1.ad.bu.edu>
, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA,  relay=relay1.bu.edu [128.197.27.99]

>>Apr 14 15:19:42 smgpub sendmail[32664]: m3EJJgII032663:
to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post everyone",
ctladdr=<everyone at management.bu.edu> (8/0), delay=00:00:00,
xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=32911 , dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

>>Apr 14 15:19:50 smgpub sendmail[32667]: m3EJJk3b032666:
to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post everyon e",
ctladdr=<everyone at management.bu.edu> (8/0), delay=00:00:00,
xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=32342 , dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

 

Also in /var/log/mailman/smtp log I always see for the list in question
request has processed for 1 receipients only however for other lists it
says for 2recips , 3recips etc. 

>>Apr 14 05:16:52 2008 (20425)
<mailman.1497.1208164611.20422.everyone at management.bu.edu> smtp to
everyone for 1 recips, completed in 0.014 seconds

>>>Apr 14 05:39:33 2008 (20425)
<mailman.1505.1208165972.20422.everyone at management.bu.edu> smtp to
everyone for 1 recips, completed in 0.011 seconds



Thanks for the help. 
Manz




From cwieland at uci.edu  Wed Apr 16 18:28:50 2008
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:28:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080415160713001501014f1c@msapiro>
References: <PC176020080415160713001501014f1c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <398EF78A-9167-41B0-8832-44AE685B1180@uci.edu>


On Apr 15, 2008, at 4:07 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Con Wieland wrote:
>>
>> On Apr 15, 2008, at 2:58 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>> Con Wieland wrote:
>>>
>>>> My questions are,  why am I getting the html attachments?
>>>
>>>
>>> Because the sender's MUA is sending them and your content  
>>> filtering is
>>> either not on or is not removing HTML and not collapsing  
>>> alternatives.
>>
>> Correct it was not on for this example but when I turn it on and  
>> select:
>>
>> Remove message attachments that have a matching content type.			text/
>> html
>>
>> I lose the pdf too. How can I configure it to just remove the text/
>> html and leave the text/plain and application/pdf ?
>
>
> It depends on how you want to approach things. You can either specify
> what you want to accept and filter the rest, or specify what you don't
> want and accept the rest. This means you want to specify only one of
> filter_mime_types and pass_mime_types and the other should be empty.
>
> If you want to accept any text/plain parts from the message or an
> attached (forwarded as attachment) message and likewise for PDFs and
> not accept anything else, set filter_mime_types empty and
> pass_mime_types to
>
> multipart
> message/rfc822
> text/plain
> application/pdf

I must be missing something here because as soon as I turn on content  
filtering no matter what I try in pass_mime_types (with above) or  
filter_mime_types, I lose everything but the text

con


>
> If you want to accept everything except html, you would put text/html
> in filter_mime_types and leave pass_mime_types empty, but this is
> probably a very bad idea. The first problem that comes to mind is you
> will pass the plain text from a multipart alternative message and also
> pass the stationery background/watermark image file but remove the
> html that references the image leaving it as a simple attachment.
>
>
>>>> and why
>>>> are they jibberish?
>>>
>>>
>>> They are not gibberish. They are HTML shown to you as raw rather  
>>> than
>>> rendered HTML.
>>
>> Yes, gibberish was not the right word. But why aren't they rendered
>> when I click on the link. I am used to just being able to open the
>> link and have them rendered.
>
>
> Because you don't want a list member posting an HTML message with evil
> javascript and getting it stored as renderable html on your web site.
> There is an mm_cfg.py setting to allow this, but here's what we say
> about it in Defaults.py.
>
>> # This variable defines what happens to text/html subparts.  They  
>> can be
>> # stripped completely, escaped, or filtered through an external  
>> program.  The
>> # legal values are:
>> # 0 - Strip out text/html parts completely, leaving a notice of  
>> the removal in
>> #     the message.  If the outer part is text/html, the entire  
>> message is
>> #     discarded.
>> # 1 - Remove any embedded text/html parts, leaving them as HTML- 
>> escaped
>> #     attachments which can be separately viewed.  Outer text/html  
>> parts are
>> #     simply HTML-escaped.
>> # 2 - Leave it inline, but HTML-escape it
>> # 3 - Remove text/html as attachments but don't HTML-escape them.  
>> Note: this
>> #     is very dangerous because it essentially means anybody can  
>> send an HTML
>> #     email to your site containing evil JavaScript or web bugs,  
>> or other
>> #     nasty things, and folks viewing your archives will be  
>> susceptible.  You
>> #     should only consider this option if you do heavy moderation  
>> of your list
>> #     postings.
> <snip>
>> ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER = 1
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users% 
> 40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
> cwieland%40uci.edu
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Apr 16 18:56:44 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:56:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Third party unsubscribe request
In-Reply-To: <613268951.20080416153509@dsl.pipex.com>
References: <613268951.20080416153509@dsl.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <48062FCC.2050400@shub-internet.org>

Dave Hillam wrote:

> But - other than tell him to ignore the unsubscribe request, what can
> I do as listadmin in these circumstances? I suspect this may be a
> one-off (it's a friendly list), but I'd like to know just in case we
> have someone messing around.

There's not much you can do.  You might be able to go through your logs and 
get some information about the unsubscription request that came through, and 
if you've got the IP address of the sender and an accurate date/time stamp, 
you could send a note to postmaster@ or abuse@ for that site and ask that 
they take care of the issue.  But beyond that, there's not much.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Apr 16 19:00:22 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:00:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Again on HTML emails
In-Reply-To: <9618.213.86.135.44.1208357667.squirrel@www.troccoli.it>
References: <9618.213.86.135.44.1208357667.squirrel@www.troccoli.it>
Message-ID: <480630A6.2010600@shub-internet.org>

Giulio Troccoli wrote:

> I need to send HTML email, or better I need to be able to do so. I've read
> a lot of posts that say how to prevent HTML emails to be sent, but I can't
> seem to be able to set mailman to accept them.

Mailman filters stuff.  If you don't set it to filter out HTML e-mail, then 
your problem is solved.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From kd5de at nwla.com  Wed Apr 16 18:31:15 2008
From: kd5de at nwla.com (Mel Sojka)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:31:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RegEX for banning
Message-ID: <480629D3.2090508@nwla.com>

I have a client that want to ban all subscriptions from .pl and .ru what 
would be the regex under 2.1.9.
Mel

-- 
System Janitor/Network Plumber http://www.nwla.com
Linux User #25446    Linux 2.6.20


From vancleef at lostwells.net  Wed Apr 16 22:00:37 2008
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:00:37 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email response very slow using Mailman and
	sendmail
In-Reply-To: <2DE012B637518B4BB1F1C1F4AA570FB8021A390D@ENG-EXCHANGE1.ad.bu.edu>
Message-ID: <200804162000.m3GK0bWQ029387@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Patil, Manjiri S has said:
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> We have internal Mailing List server running Mailman 2.1.9 and SENDMAIL
> 8.13.8. Whenever someone sent email to particular mailing list
> (everyone at managemant.bu.edu)consisting app 300 users recipients receive
> it after several hours. E.g see the following Email I sent on Apr14th at
> 3:19PM that came in at 6:09 PM and some received at 7:09 PM. I don't
> understand why there is so much delay when sending mail to 300 users
> mailing list. I clearly see in Outlook headers that the mail is sitting
> on Mailman for approximately 2hours . 
> 
> 
> Here is the corresponding SENDMAIL Log.
> 
>  
> >>Apr 14 15:19:42 smgpub sendmail[32663]: m3EJJgII032663:
> from=<mpatil at bu.edu>, size=2721, class=0, nrcpt s=1,
> msgid=<2DE012B637518B4BB1F1C1F4AA570FB802148BC1 at ENG-EXCHANGE1.ad.bu.edu>
> , proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA,  relay=relay1.bu.edu [128.197.27.99]
> 
> >>Apr 14 15:19:42 smgpub sendmail[32664]: m3EJJgII032663:
> to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post everyone",
> ctladdr=<everyone at management.bu.edu> (8/0), delay=00:00:00,
> xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=32911 , dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> 
> >>Apr 14 15:19:50 smgpub sendmail[32667]: m3EJJk3b032666:
> to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post everyon e",
> ctladdr=<everyone at management.bu.edu> (8/0), delay=00:00:00,
> xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=32342 , dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> 
>  
You aren't looking at the complete picture in the sendmail logs here.

You should have:

1. The incoming message to the list---I assume that your first log
message is this.
2. Transmission by sendmail to the Mailman post address.  Both your
second and third log entries shown above appear to be this, but for
two different messages.   

Note the m3EJJgII032663: identifier in your first two messages.  These
match, so are the same message.

When Mailman sends outgoing mail, you should see messages with
from=<everyone-bounces>
Pick up the identifier on that message and find log entries that match
it.  Here is a ferinstane of a message to a yahoo.com lister that is
being deferred by yahoo.  


1.  Mailman sends message to sendmail for delivery to yahoo.com

Apr 16 10:30:52 julie sendmail[14680]: [ID 801593 mail.info] m3GGR9as014680: fro
m=<mercedes-bounces at mercedeslist.com>, size=15494, class=-30, nrcpts=1, msgid=<mailman.106.1208363033.5334.mercedes at mercedeslist.com>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v
4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]

2. First attempt to deliver:

Apr 16 10:34:38 julie sendmail[15894]: [ID 801593 mail.info] m3GGR9as014680: to=<listmember at yahoo.com>, delay=00:03:46, xdelay=00:03:46, mailer=esmtp, pri=189494, relay=g.mx.mail.yahoo.com. [209.191.88.239], dsn=4.0.0, stat=Deferred 

2. Second attempt to deliver:

Apr 16 11:18:26 julie sendmail[19203]: [ID 801593 mail.info] m3GGR9as014680: to=<listmember at yahoo.com>, delay=00:47:34, xdelay=00:00:00,mailer=esmtp, pri=279494, relay=b.mx.mail.yahoo.com., dsn=4.0.0, stat=Deferred

3. Nth attempt to deliver:

Apr 16 13:17:51 julie sendmail[27648]: [ID 801593 mail.info] m3GGR9as014680: to=<listmember at yahoo.com>, delay=02:46:59, xdelay=00:00:00,mailer=esmtp, pri=459494, relay=b.mx.mail.yahoo.com., dsn=4.0.0, stat=Deferred

Note that what keys these messages together is the ident string
m3GGR9as014680:

You'll note that the last delay is delay=02:46:59

This is a yahoo.com problem which we can't solve at the sending end.
Obviously, the listmember won't get the mail message until yahoo
agrees to accept it.  

I've cited a "problem delivery" that I am working at this end and
trying to get yahoo.com to do something about.  Look for stat=Deferred
in your system.  In any event you need to examine the outgoing mail
messages, as well as the incoming.  There are several hundred log
lines between these attempts, so you will have to search on the ident
string to find the affected messages.

Hank

From dpifer at odu.edu  Wed Apr 16 17:29:35 2008
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:29:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need capability of link to archived messages
Message-ID: <1208348491.3651.44.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Hello,

We have a list that we use for keeping backup logs and sometimes these
logs get rather large.  The list is moderated and sometimes the size of
the message goes beyond the "Maximum length in KB of message body" which
requires approval. The owner of the list wanted to know, as I do, is it
possible to get the e-mail of the message but the message contain an
embedded URL to the stored archive instead an e-mail message with the
log?  I am not sure but it sounds to me like some sort of webmail app to
me is needed.  Is this capability in Mailman or has someone modified
Mailman to include this sort of functionality?

FYI, we are using Mailman version 2.1.9.  I see that Mailman v2.1.10RC
is out now, not that it matters.

Darren
Old Dominion University
Norfolk, VA


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Apr 16 23:19:50 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 16:19:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need capability of link to archived messages
In-Reply-To: <1208348491.3651.44.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
References: <1208348491.3651.44.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <48066D76.8000408@shub-internet.org>

Darren G Pifer wrote:

> We have a list that we use for keeping backup logs and sometimes these
> logs get rather large.  The list is moderated and sometimes the size of
> the message goes beyond the "Maximum length in KB of message body" which
> requires approval. The owner of the list wanted to know, as I do, is it
> possible to get the e-mail of the message but the message contain an
> embedded URL to the stored archive instead an e-mail message with the
> log?

If you set "scrub_nondigest" to "yes", then the messages that are sent out 
will have the same attachment scrubbing mechanism applied to them as is done 
for digests.  However, most systems I know of that send out stuff by e-mail 
don't structure the message with proper MIME formatting (or old-style 
uuencode-ing, for that matter) and therefore what you get is the body of the 
message is too large but there is no "attachment".

Sure, you can store these large messages in your archive, and you can link 
to them if you want.  But there's not really anything that Mailman can help 
you do to them unless they're properly formatted on input.

>    I am not sure but it sounds to me like some sort of webmail app to
> me is needed.  Is this capability in Mailman or has someone modified
> Mailman to include this sort of functionality?

Mailman does not include a webmail application, although you could certainly 
install one.  See FAQ 1.26 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.026.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Apr 17 01:08:07 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:08:07 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <7ff145960804151624u316420ddwd822eae02bcd5281@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0804151137030.27712@westnet.com>
	<PC176020080415085651029693f09adb@msapiro>
	<7ff145960804151624u316420ddwd822eae02bcd5281@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87zlrtpfe0.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

BTW, the *real* problem here is that we *really* need to free up Mark
for doing more development.  Whether he likes it or not. ;-)

Jim Popovitch writes:

 > On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:56 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
 > >
 > >  There are two security issues mentioned in the announcement.
 > 
 > <harsh criticism>
 > How much sense does it make to announce security issues in a release
 > CANDIDATE?   Come on guys, release a STABLE version (or FIX), then
 > announce.  <--- Standard Operation Procedures.
 > </harsh criticism>
 > 
 > Quit feeding the enemy instead of your supporters.

That last was *quite* uncalled-for.

First of all, there is no such thing as a STABLE security release (you
can't beta test it before announcing and you don't have time to alpha
test properly), so it can't possibly be S.O.P.

Second, the fact that you emphasize STABLE indicates (and you confirm)
that you're thinking of a situation where you can't upgrade to an
unstable version because of "rules".  That's not Mark's problem,
that's *your* problem if you are not trusted to judge whether a fix is
sufficiently important and stable to be applied.  I understand your
frustration, but it ain't Mark's fault.

Third, you have real problems anyway.  Mailman has known security bugs
that are not going to get fixed soon (specifically the LIST-request
backscatter problem).[1]  You are aware of that, right?  In the great
scheme of things, I don't think the two minor issues fixed in this RC
are a really big deal....

Anyway, whether you like it or not, the backscatter issue shows that
the Mailman project currently does not put #1 priority on things just
because they're labeled "security issues".  If you want that changed,
it would help to have a better idea of what exactly is most important,
because resources aren't infinite.

Now, your desire for a stable security release suggests that what you
want is a procedure like

(0) mailman-security at python.org receives a report.
(1) The security cabal prepares a fix to the current stable release (if
    necessary, cutting a new branch) and tests it as well as possible.
(2) The release is cut as version STABLE.SECURITY-PATCH-NUMBER.
(3) The release is announced, and (optionally) a patch published for
    the DIY crowd.
(4) The developers consider whether to forward port or design a
    different fix for in-development versions (including the next
    stable/bugfix release).

Is that right?  If so, how much are you (and others) willing to
contribute toward achieving that process?  Eg, maybe you could beat
Mark to the punch on a few of the routine questions that he must spend
5 hours a week on, or so?  Or if you have Python skills, you could
volunteer to burn some midnight oil on generating patches and alpha
testing?  Etc, etc.


Footnotes: 
[1]  True, with some effort you can shut those aliases off, but that
will invalidate many of the information web pages, and for that reason
the secure configuration has not been made default, and probably that
will be postponed to Mailman 2.2.


From barry at list.org  Thu Apr 17 01:14:02 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:14:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <7ff145960804151818q107d31b4p3756e3f05b2369ab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0804151137030.27712@westnet.com>
	<PC176020080415085651029693f09adb@msapiro>
	<7ff145960804151624u316420ddwd822eae02bcd5281@mail.gmail.com>
	<36838.144.189.5.201.1208306999.squirrel@www.crimson-dragon.com>
	<FB3167D8-4C00-4CAA-8F99-C7D14B0B2E9B@python.org>
	<7ff145960804151818q107d31b4p3756e3f05b2369ab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <93104B59-5993-492C-9219-FD860417D12B@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Apr 15, 2008, at 9:18 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 9:10 PM, Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org>  
> wrote:
>> Better to get a release out asap after  that and let the community  
>> know
>> that there are important fixes contained within.
>
> Fair enough.  Where's the release then?
>
> Look, I know you folks are working hard on this, and I certainly don't
> dis-respect that.  HOWEVER, the process flow needs some re-thinking.
> You should not publicly release security vulnerability details before
> fixes are identified for current versions.   I can't imagine that you
> don't already know that.

There is some validity to the complaint that new releases are blocked  
on translation updates.  Our translators do a wonderful, and greatly  
appreciated job, but they're disadvantaged by our suboptimal  
translation process.  A big motivation for moving to a service like  
Pootle or Launchpad translations is to help decouple their work from  
that of the release manager.  I think we also need to find a better  
way to package non-English language support so that updates to  
languages can happen on their own schedule without requiring or  
blocking the core Mailman releases.

- -Barry

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From barry at list.org  Thu Apr 17 01:25:34 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:25:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <7ff145960804152121s1b778be0p849b27206f61ed93@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7ff145960804151818q107d31b4p3756e3f05b2369ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200804152004120953fa95c1e5@msapiro>
	<7ff145960804152121s1b778be0p849b27206f61ed93@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E4207190-C266-4371-AFD7-53EC90CD5C65@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Apr 16, 2008, at 12:21 AM, Jim Popovitch wrote:
>
>> I really am faced with only two choices. Commit my fixes to the
>> publicly available source tree so they can be exposed and tested in a
>> wide variety of environments during the beta release phase, which
>> process necessarily also exposes the vulnerabilities that they fix to
>> the world, or sit on my patches and release them untested by others  
>> in
>> the final release.
>
> I can appreciate the significance of that situation.  I don't know
> that I have a solution other than to ask what does ClamAV or
> SpamAssassin do in similar situations?   I believe I shepherded the
> idea, some time ago, of the need for a closed Mailman security team of
> both developers and involved site administrators.   I would say if a
> proven trusted group of Mailman site administrators privately
> discussed and tested a security fix, then I would have no problem with
> fixes being committed and released at once.  Although a "heads up!"
> would be nice too. ;-)

We have such a closed list, currently consisting of Mark, Tokio and  
myself.  It's who you get when you contact mailman- 
security at python.org.  More volunteers would probably be welcome,  
especially if they were devoted to lending the additional help you  
describe above.  Note too that we don't work in a vacuum.  Very often  
we're working with vendor-sec to address security issues in a  
responsible and coordinated way.

>> [1]Patches for CVE-2008-0564 were made available to those who asked,
>> and a google search will show that some distros have been patched,
>> although Ubuntu for example
>> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mailman/+bug/199338> calls
>> it "low" importance.
>
> Well, I gave up running Ubuntu on servers (although I still do on my
> laptop) specifically because I didn't like there approach to things
> like having NetworkManager installed/enabled by default on a Server
> install. ;-)

BTW, it's not our responsibility to do anything other than patch the  
Mailman source distribution.  We'll work with vendors of course, but  
it's really up to them to decide which patches to incorporate and and  
how to distribute.  If you don't want to run from source, you have to  
trust your distro vendor to do the right thing.

Fortunately now, you have another option.  You could track changes to  
the master Bazaar repositories using your own branches.  Then you can  
decide which of our changes to cherry pick into your own running  
servers, and easily merge in your own customization.  Nobody's doing  
it this way yet afaik, but I think it would work quite well for some  
sites.

- -Barry

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=7rg6
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From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 17 01:46:24 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 16:46:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RegEX for banning
In-Reply-To: <480629D3.2090508@nwla.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804161646240281d5e5f0f1@msapiro>

Mel Sojka wrote:

>I have a client that want to ban all subscriptions from .pl and .ru what 
>would be the regex under 2.1.9.


^.*\.pl$
^.*\.ru$

You could combine it in one

^.*\.(pl|ru)$

but it's probably clearer to leave it as two. See
<http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Apr 17 01:48:19 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:48:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <87zlrtpfe0.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0804151137030.27712@westnet.com>	<PC176020080415085651029693f09adb@msapiro>	<7ff145960804151624u316420ddwd822eae02bcd5281@mail.gmail.com>
	<87zlrtpfe0.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <48069043.308@shub-internet.org>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> [1]  True, with some effort you can shut those aliases off, but that
> will invalidate many of the information web pages, and for that reason
> the secure configuration has not been made default, and probably that
> will be postponed to Mailman 2.2.

I'd be really surprised if that ever becomes the default, because there are 
so many other ways in which backscatter can be generated -- either by 
Mailman, or any other MLM.

Yes, in the future I would hope there would be options available to the site 
admin, or ideally also to the list admin, to reduce backscatter generation, 
but they should address all potential sources of backscatter and not just 
the aliases.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From applewize at spamcop.net  Thu Apr 17 01:51:38 2008
From: applewize at spamcop.net (Mike Baumann)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:51:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Simple question
Message-ID: <4806910A.4040301@spamcop.net>

Sorry if this has been asked before but I am new to this list

The instructions for users who need help type help on the subject line 
with a blank message

They get back an email that there message may contain "administrivia"  

Do I have a setting wrong?

Thanks
Mike?
-- 

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 17 02:10:34 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:10:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Simple question
In-Reply-To: <4806910A.4040301@spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804161710340359d5e5f149@msapiro>

Mike Baumann 
>
>The instructions for users who need help type help on the subject line 
>with a blank message
>
>They get back an email that there message may contain "administrivia"  
>
>Do I have a setting wrong?


No. Your members are sending the help command to the list posting
address. It needs to be sent to the list-request address.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 17 02:25:48 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:25:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments
In-Reply-To: <398EF78A-9167-41B0-8832-44AE685B1180@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804161725480578542d0f52@msapiro>

Con Wieland wrote:
>
>On Apr 15, 2008, at 4:07 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> If you want to accept any text/plain parts from the message or an
>> attached (forwarded as attachment) message and likewise for PDFs and
>> not accept anything else, set filter_mime_types empty and
>> pass_mime_types to
>>
>> multipart
>> message/rfc822
>> text/plain
>> application/pdf
>
>I must be missing something here because as soon as I turn on content  
>filtering no matter what I try in pass_mime_types (with above) or  
>filter_mime_types, I lose everything but the text


It is possible that the user's MUA that sends the pdf attachment
doesn't properly identify its content-type as application/pdf. If that
is the case, and you can't convince the user to use an intelligent
MUA, you have to accept whatever content-type that MUA is assigning to
the attachment (maybe application/octet-stream - aargh...) and then
hope you can filter all the garbage without adverse impact by putting
say pdf and txt in pass_filename_extensions.

First, you have to see a raw message from the user with an attached pdf
and see what the part headers are.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 17 02:46:33 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:46:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need capability of link to archived messages
In-Reply-To: <1208348491.3651.44.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602008041617463302968bb1e829@msapiro>

Darren G Pifer wrote:
>
>The owner of the list wanted to know, as I do, is it
>possible to get the e-mail of the message but the message contain an
>embedded URL to the stored archive instead an e-mail message with the
>log?


This is not possible in current Mailman.

In Mailman 3, now in alpha exposure, I think there will be the ability
to include a link to the archived message in the delivered message
itself (some sort of X-Archived-At header), but the delivered message
will still contain the full original.

If the only issue is that some messages are held because they are too
big, why not just raise the limit. The setting is "Maximum length in
kilobytes (KB) of a message body. Use 0 for no limit." on General
Options.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cyndi at tikvah.com  Thu Apr 17 02:56:57 2008
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:56:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Again on HTML emails
In-Reply-To: <9618.213.86.135.44.1208357667.squirrel@www.troccoli.it>
	(giulio@troccoli.it)
References: <9618.213.86.135.44.1208357667.squirrel@www.troccoli.it>
Message-ID: <200804170056.m3H0uvYm014045@a.mail.sonic.net>

   Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:54:27 +0100 (BST)
   From: "Giulio Troccoli" <giulio at troccoli.it>

   I need to send HTML email, or better I need to be able to do so. I've read
   a lot of posts that say how to prevent HTML emails to be sent, but I can't
   seem to be able to set mailman to accept them.

You've gotten some technical responses, so I will just chime in with my
fellow-user one.  I do not have any of the content filters on and HTML
posts come through my list with zero problems.  I do get that "attachment
was scrubbed" bizzareness which is just the footer.  But the body of the
message is fine and all the HTML markup is intact.

My suggestion to you is to set up a test list on your system.  Hopefully
you're not somewhere where you have to pay per list.  But if you're running
MM on your server or you are at an ISP that lets you have multiple lists,
set up one that only you are on (or ask some people from your list to be
testers and join it).  

Start with the list defaults (you can change membership settings and stuff
like that) and send your HTML post.  See if it comes through okay.  If it
doesn't, then there is a problem with the MM installation or mailer
software on your server.  If it does, then make changes to content filters
one at a time to see where the problem starts.  I'm assuming that is what
is wrong; maybe it is something else.

Cyndi


From k.hicks at auckland.ac.nz  Thu Apr 17 02:35:44 2008
From: k.hicks at auckland.ac.nz (Kevin Hicks)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:35:44 +1200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] footer to the bottom of the email message
Message-ID: <924B2B288B4D9B47B764BA944068BDB901637792@fmhsx2.fmhs.auckland.ac.nz>

Hi, a very elementary question. I cannot find out how to add the footer
to the bottom of the email message. It is being added as an attachment.
Can you help?

 

Footer added to mail sent to regular list members 

(Details for msg_footer)

 

Cheers, Kevin

 


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Apr 17 03:16:14 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 20:16:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] footer to the bottom of the email message
In-Reply-To: <924B2B288B4D9B47B764BA944068BDB901637792@fmhsx2.fmhs.auckland.ac.nz>
References: <924B2B288B4D9B47B764BA944068BDB901637792@fmhsx2.fmhs.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <4806A4DE.70807@shub-internet.org>

Kevin Hicks wrote:

> Hi, a very elementary question. I cannot find out how to add the footer
> to the bottom of the email message. It is being added as an attachment.
> Can you help?

Search the Mailman FAQ Wizard at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> 
for "footer".  Pay special attention to FAQ 4.39.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 17 03:33:38 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:33:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email response very slow using Mailman and
	sendmail
In-Reply-To: <2DE012B637518B4BB1F1C1F4AA570FB8021A390D@ENG-EXCHANGE1.ad.bu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602008041618333802967877efae@msapiro>

Patil, Manjiri S wrote:
>
>We have internal Mailing List server running Mailman 2.1.9 and SENDMAIL
>8.13.8. Whenever someone sent email to particular mailing list
>(everyone at managemant.bu.edu)consisting app 300 users recipients receive
>it after several hours. E.g see the following Email I sent on Apr14th at
>3:19PM that came in at 6:09 PM and some received at 7:09 PM. I don't
>understand why there is so much delay when sending mail to 300 users
>mailing list. I clearly see in Outlook headers that the mail is sitting
>on Mailman for approximately 2hours . 


And as I suggested previously, everything here is consistent with that
message having been held for moderator approval and not approved for
some time.


>OUTLOOK headers :
>Received: from smgpub.bu.edu (smgsendmail.bu.edu [127.0.0.1])
>>            by smgpub.bu.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 
>>m3ELf9u3001743;
>>            Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:41:09 -0400


And as Hank points out in another reply, You show the sendmail log
entries for the delivery to Mailman with id m3EJJgII032663 which is
the header below, but where are the entries for the above id
m3ELf9u3001743 which is the delivery from Mailman?


>>Received: from relay1.bu.edu (relay1.bu.edu [128.197.27.99])
>>            by smgpub.bu.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id
>>m3EJJgII032663
>>            for <everyone at management.bu.edu>; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:19:42
>
>>-0400
>
>
>Here is the corresponding SENDMAIL Log.
>
> 
>>>Apr 14 15:19:42 smgpub sendmail[32663]: m3EJJgII032663:
>from=<mpatil at bu.edu>, size=2721, class=0, nrcpt s=1,
>msgid=<2DE012B637518B4BB1F1C1F4AA570FB802148BC1 at ENG-EXCHANGE1.ad.bu.edu>
>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA,  relay=relay1.bu.edu [128.197.27.99]
>
>>>Apr 14 15:19:42 smgpub sendmail[32664]: m3EJJgII032663:
>to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post everyone",
>ctladdr=<everyone at management.bu.edu> (8/0), delay=00:00:00,
>xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=32911 , dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
>
>>>Apr 14 15:19:50 smgpub sendmail[32667]: m3EJJk3b032666:
>to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post everyon e",
>ctladdr=<everyone at management.bu.edu> (8/0), delay=00:00:00,
>xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=32342 , dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
>
> 
>
>Also in /var/log/mailman/smtp log I always see for the list in question
>request has processed for 1 receipients only however for other lists it
>says for 2recips , 3recips etc. 
>
>>>Apr 14 05:16:52 2008 (20425)
><mailman.1497.1208164611.20422.everyone at management.bu.edu> smtp to
>everyone for 1 recips, completed in 0.014 seconds
>
>>>>Apr 14 05:39:33 2008 (20425)
><mailman.1505.1208165972.20422.everyone at management.bu.edu> smtp to
>everyone for 1 recips, completed in 0.011 seconds


These are notices generated from Mailman about messages. Neither of
these is the delivery from Mailman of the post. What is the smtp log
entry containing the message id
<2DE012B637518B4BB1F1C1F4AA570FB802148BC1 at ENG-EXCHANGE1.ad.bu.edu>?

Also, is there an X-Mailman-Approved-At: header in the received message?

Is there anything in Mailman's vette log about this message?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Apr 17 06:07:14 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:07:14 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <E4207190-C266-4371-AFD7-53EC90CD5C65@list.org>
References: <7ff145960804151818q107d31b4p3756e3f05b2369ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200804152004120953fa95c1e5@msapiro>
	<7ff145960804152121s1b778be0p849b27206f61ed93@mail.gmail.com>
	<E4207190-C266-4371-AFD7-53EC90CD5C65@list.org>
Message-ID: <87iqyhp1jh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Barry Warsaw writes:

 > BTW, it's not our responsibility to do anything other than patch the  
 > Mailman source distribution.

I think you've missed at least part of Jim's point ...

 > Then you can decide which of our changes to cherry pick into your
 > own running servers, and easily merge in your own customization.

Ayup, I do think you did.  Over his boss's dead body he will ....

The two points he wants, I think, are

(1) the certification that comes with an Official Release, and

(2) Minimal Change (addressing *only* the security issues) from the
current Official Stable Release.  Maybe even a patch for the previous
O.S.R., since many people give a release a bit of time to shake down.

*How* those changes get into his installation are (at this point) a
secondary concern.

Jim?

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Apr 17 06:15:32 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:15:32 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <93104B59-5993-492C-9219-FD860417D12B@list.org>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0804151137030.27712@westnet.com>
	<PC176020080415085651029693f09adb@msapiro>
	<7ff145960804151624u316420ddwd822eae02bcd5281@mail.gmail.com>
	<36838.144.189.5.201.1208306999.squirrel@www.crimson-dragon.com>
	<FB3167D8-4C00-4CAA-8F99-C7D14B0B2E9B@python.org>
	<7ff145960804151818q107d31b4p3756e3f05b2369ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<93104B59-5993-492C-9219-FD860417D12B@list.org>
Message-ID: <87hce1p15n.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Barry Warsaw writes:

 > There is some validity to the complaint that new releases are blocked  
 > on translation updates.  Our translators do a wonderful, and greatly  
 > appreciated job, but they're disadvantaged by our suboptimal  
 > translation process.

Fixing that won't help security releases, though.  I don't recall
anybody waiting on translations for the Apache traversal bug.

 > I think we also need to find a better way to package non-English
 > language support so that updates to languages can happen on their
 > own schedule without requiring or blocking the core Mailman
 > releases.

How do you propose to do that, except by releasing English-only
versions first?

I don't know the details of Python's implementation, but the gettext C
library is already pretty close to optimal on this, isn't it?  You
just drop a random .mo file into the right place, and gettext will use
the translation it finds if there's one there, and otherwise spew the
original string.

So all you really need is a utility to uninstall (and optionally back
up) the old language file and install the new one in the right place.


From yahoo at jimpop.com  Thu Apr 17 06:16:54 2008
From: yahoo at jimpop.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 00:16:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <87iqyhp1jh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <7ff145960804151818q107d31b4p3756e3f05b2369ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200804152004120953fa95c1e5@msapiro>
	<7ff145960804152121s1b778be0p849b27206f61ed93@mail.gmail.com>
	<E4207190-C266-4371-AFD7-53EC90CD5C65@list.org>
	<87iqyhp1jh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <7ff145960804162116h1255e741y6e7f1386a27f3f5a@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 12:07 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull
<stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
> Barry Warsaw writes:
>
>   > BTW, it's not our responsibility to do anything other than patch the
>   > Mailman source distribution.
>
>  I think you've missed at least part of Jim's point ...
>
>
>   > Then you can decide which of our changes to cherry pick into your
>   > own running servers, and easily merge in your own customization.
>
>  Ayup, I do think you did.  Over his boss's dead body he will ....
>
>  The two points he wants, I think, are
>
>  (1) the certification that comes with an Official Release, and
>
>  (2) Minimal Change (addressing *only* the security issues) from the
>  current Official Stable Release.  Maybe even a patch for the previous
>  O.S.R., since many people give a release a bit of time to shake down.
>
>  *How* those changes get into his installation are (at this point) a
>  secondary concern.
>
>  Jim?

Correct.   Security fixes should be minimal and quick, needing very
little effort/attention by end users (i.e. Mailman operators).   I
would be very trusting and very happy if things like XSS and remote
exploits were handled outside of CVS/SVN, then tested by a core group
of operators to make sure the fixes didn't break other things.  And
then (same day) commits to CVS/SVN and source releases to the market.
 2.1.10.rc1 appears to be more than security fixes, and as such is
held up by language dependencies and other standard release issues.
I think the process needs to change and have security issues handled
outside of normal releases.

And for the record, I would be very willing to help out (i have python
skils), but $DAYJOB legally prevents me from pretty much actively
getting involved.  Further, if I did contribute code, it could open
Mailman up to legal issues.  But, testing, etc, are ok because they
are not IP related.

-Jim P.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Apr 17 06:48:58 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:48:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <7ff145960804162116h1255e741y6e7f1386a27f3f5a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7ff145960804151818q107d31b4p3756e3f05b2369ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200804152004120953fa95c1e5@msapiro>
	<7ff145960804152121s1b778be0p849b27206f61ed93@mail.gmail.com>
	<E4207190-C266-4371-AFD7-53EC90CD5C65@list.org>
	<87iqyhp1jh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<7ff145960804162116h1255e741y6e7f1386a27f3f5a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c42c84df464a@[192.168.1.199]>

On 4/17/08, Jim Popovitch wrote:

>  I think the process needs to change and have security issues handled
>  outside of normal releases.

Which is what normally happens in the process as it currently exists. 
It's just that, in this particular case, this bug wasn't exposed 
until an earlier 2.1.10b version was released, and then we fixed this 
security hole.

So, in this case, to get the security fix you need to install the 
latest 2.1.10rc (which includes additional functionality), as opposed 
to a patch to a previous 2.1.9 version (which would presumably 
include just the security fix).


To go down the road you suggest would mean that we'd be responsible 
for back-porting all security-only fixes to all previous versions of 
Mailman, as a completely separate release tree from the new 
development work.

Speaking only for myself, this seems to be a significant additional 
amount of work, and I think it's unlikely to happen unless we get a 
lot more resources on this project.  We'd need developers working on 
new code, developers working exclusively on security fixes, and a 
separate Release Engineer whose sole responsibility is to manage the 
process of creating appropriate patch releases as well as sheparding 
the new development releases.

FreeBSD can get away with that, because they've got a lot more people 
working on the project, and a lot more money supporting those people. 
I doubt we're ever going to be in a position to do something like 
that ourselves.  In this project, most people have to wear multiple 
hats, and work on new development, security fixes, and release 
engineering, all at the same time.

>  And for the record, I would be very willing to help out (i have python
>  skils), but $DAYJOB legally prevents me from pretty much actively
>  getting involved.  Further, if I did contribute code, it could open
>  Mailman up to legal issues.  But, testing, etc, are ok because they
>  are not IP related.

You could take over the Release Engineering job, and manage the two 
separate security patch-only releases as well as the new-development 
releases.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From fan.d.liu at gmail.com  Thu Apr 17 10:18:43 2008
From: fan.d.liu at gmail.com (Fan Liu)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:18:43 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 'gb2312' codec can't decode bytes in position 0-1:
	illegal	multibyte sequence
Message-ID: <20080417081843.GI18269@amber.pmo.ac.cn>

Hi all,

I'm using Mailman 2.1.9 with python 2.4 and debian lenny.

Since there're posts encoded with 'gb2312', which can be decoded fine in
mutt. However, the archived mails, by pipermail, was not diplayed well in
webpages.

I searched the mailman-users list, and find the same problem posted before.
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg39747.html

The resolution suggested to intall cjkcodecs, which is provided by python2.4
now, and add 
add_language('zh_CN', _('Chinese (China)'), 'gb2312')
in Defaults.py (as referred to an earlier post
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/2003-September/000976.html). 

Then I run 
arch --wipe mylist

I encountered such error,

"UnicodeDecodeError: 'gb2312' codec can't decode bytes in position 0-1: illegal
multibyte sequence"

Any ideas why?  Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Fan


-- 
Fan Liu
Ph.D Student of Star Formation in Galaxies Group,
Purple Mountain Observatory,
2# West Beijing Road, Nanjing, China
Email: fanliu at pmo.ac.cn
Homepage: http://sfig.pmo.ac.cn/~fliu/

From giulio at troccoli.it  Thu Apr 17 12:04:53 2008
From: giulio at troccoli.it (Giulio Troccoli)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:04:53 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Again on HTML emails
In-Reply-To: <200804170056.m3H0uvYm014045@a.mail.sonic.net>
References: <9618.213.86.135.44.1208357667.squirrel@www.troccoli.it>
	<200804170056.m3H0uvYm014045@a.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <57136.213.86.135.44.1208426693.squirrel@www.troccoli.it>

On Gio, 17 Aprile 2008 1:56 am, Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
>    Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:54:27 +0100 (BST)
>    From: "Giulio Troccoli" <giulio at troccoli.it>
>
>    I need to send HTML email, or better I need to be able to do so. I've
> read
>    a lot of posts that say how to prevent HTML emails to be sent, but I
> can't
>    seem to be able to set mailman to accept them.
>
> You've gotten some technical responses, so I will just chime in with my
> fellow-user one.  I do not have any of the content filters on and HTML
> posts come through my list with zero problems.  I do get that "attachment
> was scrubbed" bizzareness which is just the footer.  But the body of the
> message is fine and all the HTML markup is intact.
>
> My suggestion to you is to set up a test list on your system.  Hopefully
> you're not somewhere where you have to pay per list.  But if you're
> running
> MM on your server or you are at an ISP that lets you have multiple lists,
> set up one that only you are on (or ask some people from your list to be
> testers and join it).
>
> Start with the list defaults (you can change membership settings and stuff
> like that) and send your HTML post.  See if it comes through okay.  If it
> doesn't, then there is a problem with the MM installation or mailer
> software on your server.  If it does, then make changes to content filters
> one at a time to see where the problem starts.  I'm assuming that is what
> is wrong; maybe it is something else.
>
> Cyndi
>
>

Thanks Cyndi, that is what I did. However, the problem, as Brad Knowles
suggested, was that I wasn't sending proper HTML formatted emails. I have
tried with Outlook and everything works fine (apart from the footer but I
know there is a FAQ for that).

Now my problem is how do I send proper HTML formatted emails with a
script? If anybody is willing to help me with that please email me, I
don't want to spam the list with OT emails.

Thanks
Giulio



From dpifer at odu.edu  Thu Apr 17 14:23:14 2008
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:23:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need capability of link to archived messages
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008041617463302968bb1e829@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008041617463302968bb1e829@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1208434994.3651.68.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Hi Mark,

On Wed, 2008-04-16 at 17:46 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Darren G Pifer wrote:
> >
> >The owner of the list wanted to know, as I do, is it
> >possible to get the e-mail of the message but the message contain an
> >embedded URL to the stored archive instead an e-mail message with the
> >log?
> 
> 
> This is not possible in current Mailman.
> 
> In Mailman 3, now in alpha exposure, I think there will be the ability
> to include a link to the archived message in the delivered message
> itself (some sort of X-Archived-At header), but the delivered message
> will still contain the full original.
> 
> If the only issue is that some messages are held because they are too
> big, why not just raise the limit. The setting is "Maximum length in
> kilobytes (KB) of a message body. Use 0 for no limit." on General
> Options.

The issue was no such much the moderator had to approve the message
because of the size but the fact that the e-mail messages to the list
are rather large.  It took about 10 munites to get my Evolution client
to read the entire message.  Mailman is probably not the software we not
to use for this kind of function, that is, storing backup logs, but it
is convenient.  

Anyhow, if Mailman 3 will include this kind of functionality, then we
will wait for its release.

Thanks, Darren
ODU


From carloswill at gmail.com  Thu Apr 17 15:17:34 2008
From: carloswill at gmail.com (Carlos Williams)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 09:17:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Only One List Is Not Working
Message-ID: <d80f793f0804170617p677f93cdxafffc46f688cc12d@mail.gmail.com>

I have several mailman list on my Postfix server and all work as far
as I know except for my most important one which is called "everyone"
at example.com. This list goes out to everyone who has an email
account on my Postfix server. I created some test lists today and just
to make sure that mailman was not broken and they all worked. I tried
sending email to some smaller lists and they all seem to work so I
don't know exactly what to do to determine why my everyone list is no
longer going out. I am the administrator for everyone and when anyone
sends stuff to the list, I never get any emails that anything is
pending and when I login via HTML interface, I don't see anything.

Are there any tips you guys can suggest I do for troubleshooting or
perhaps providing some information that could help me understand why
simply one of my lists is not working?

I checked /var/log/mailman/error and really don't know much about
mailman except how to install it and mildly maintain it as far as list
creation and deletion.

Thanks for any assistance!

mailman-2.1.5.1-34.rhel4.6

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 17 16:23:49 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 07:23:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 'gb2312' codec can't decode bytes in position
	0-1:illegal	multibyte sequence
In-Reply-To: <20080417081843.GI18269@amber.pmo.ac.cn>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804170723490625139b5bc2@msapiro>

Fan Liu 
>
>The resolution suggested to intall cjkcodecs, which is provided by python2.4
>now, and add 
>add_language('zh_CN', _('Chinese (China)'), 'gb2312')
>in Defaults.py (as referred to an earlier post
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/2003-September/000976.html). 
>
>Then I run 
>arch --wipe mylist
>
>I encountered such error,
>
>"UnicodeDecodeError: 'gb2312' codec can't decode bytes in position 0-1: illegal
>multibyte sequence"
>
>Any ideas why?  Thanks in advance.


I'm only guessing, but I think it is probably because the
templates/zh-CN/* templates are still encoded as utf-8. You can't
change the character encoding for a language without also recoding all
the templates and the message catalog.

In any case, I question whether the 4+ year old information is even
applicable in current Mailman. I suspect your original issue has to do
with messages in the archive being encoded as utf-8 and the web server
sending a content-type header with a charset other than utf-8. If so,
this is a web server issue. See my comment at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1942206&group_id=103&atid=100103>
for a bit more.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 17 16:26:36 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 07:26:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Only One List Is Not Working
In-Reply-To: <d80f793f0804170617p677f93cdxafffc46f688cc12d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804170726360734139b5c22@msapiro>

Carlos Williams wrote:
>
>Are there any tips you guys can suggest I do for troubleshooting or
>perhaps providing some information that could help me understand why
>simply one of my lists is not working?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.076.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pmoss at fcg.com  Thu Apr 17 16:26:04 2008
From: pmoss at fcg.com (Moss, Patricia)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:26:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9
Message-ID: <2318C3D1B2172948B6F93E77869AF1FBCD0B79@pant50.fcg.com>

I could not find much documentation on upgrading from mailman version
2.1.5 to version 2.1.9.  I want to make sure that it is as simple as
backing up my current install then run 'configure' and 'make install'.
The new will overwrite the old and convert what needs to be converted;
would this be a correct statement?

 

Pati M

"UNIX is user friendly. It's just picky about who it's friends with."

 


This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged, and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient.  Any review, reliance, or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited.  If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.

From mpatil at bu.edu  Thu Apr 17 17:49:50 2008
From: mpatil at bu.edu (Patil, Manjiri S)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:49:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email response very slow using Mailman and
	sendmail
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008041618333802967877efae@msapiro>
References: <2DE012B637518B4BB1F1C1F4AA570FB8021A390D@ENG-EXCHANGE1.ad.bu.edu>
	<PC17602008041618333802967877efae@msapiro>
Message-ID: <2DE012B637518B4BB1F1C1F4AA570FB8021DBA1E@ENG-EXCHANGE1.ad.bu.edu>


Hi Hank and mark , 

First of all thanks a lot for your detailed log explanation. I send new
message to this list today morning at 9:01AM and I received it arrived
at 10:02 AM. But some users havn't received it after 2hours. After
searching through logs I have come up with following. 

Also I see delay of 00:28:31 & 00:58:03 . I see that there is no
activity from 10:00:02 to 11:01:03. At 11:03 sendmail starts sending
message again to bunch of remaining people. I think delay happens when
there is stat=User unknown. I am going to unsubscribe those users. 


I do see that SENDAMAIL is trying to send messages only to bunch of
people which varies from 10 to 50 at time. Also how do I tune up
SENDMAIL with number of recipients to process at one time?


****Apr 17 09:30:30 smgpub sendmail[27208]: m3HD1x7v027207:
to=<awolk at bu.edu>, delay=00:28:31, xdelay=00:28:31, mailer=esmtp 
9147447, relay=relay.bu.edu. [128.197.27.198], dsn=5.1.1, stat=User
unknown

****Apr 17 10:00:02 smgpub sendmail[27208]: m3HD1x7v027207:
to=<... at bu.edu>,<.... at bu.edu>,<....da at bu.edu>,<.....@>
,<.... at bu.edu>,<.... at bu.edu [more], delay=00:58:03, xdelay=00:58:03,
mailer=esmtp, pri=9147447, relay.bu.edu. [128.197.27.198], dsn=2.0.0,
stat=Sent (m3HD1x78004079 Message accepted for delivery)

****Apr 17 10:00:02 smgpub sendmail[27208]: m3HD1x7v027207:
to=<rkgupta at bu.edu [more], delay=00:58:03, xdelay=00:58:03,
mailer=esmtp, pri=
7, relay=relay.bu.edu. [128.197.27.198], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
(m3HD1x78004079 Message accepted for delivery)


****Apr 17 10:00:02 smgpub sendmail[27208]: m3HD1x7v027207:
to=<tbrennan at bu.edu>, delay=00:58:03, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=es
ri=9147447, relay=relay.bu.edu. [128.197.27.198], dsn=5.1.1, stat=User
unknown

****Apr 17 11:01:03 smgpub sendmail[27208]: m3HD1x7v027207:
to=<sgsegal at bu.edu>, [more], delay=01:59:04, xdelay=01:01:01,
mailer=esmtp, pri=9147447, relay=relay.bu.edu. [128.197.27.198],
dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (m3HD1x7A004079 Message accepted for delivery)



Thanks 
Manjiri 




From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Apr 17 18:01:25 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:01:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Again on HTML emails
In-Reply-To: <57136.213.86.135.44.1208426693.squirrel@www.troccoli.it>
References: <9618.213.86.135.44.1208357667.squirrel@www.troccoli.it>	<200804170056.m3H0uvYm014045@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<57136.213.86.135.44.1208426693.squirrel@www.troccoli.it>
Message-ID: <48077455.5040609@shub-internet.org>

Giulio Troccoli wrote:

> Now my problem is how do I send proper HTML formatted emails with a
> script? If anybody is willing to help me with that please email me, I
> don't want to spam the list with OT emails.

I'd suggest getting a MIME CLI toolkit that you can use.  Going to 
freshmeat.net and searching for MIME, the first hit I get is for "MIME-tool" 
at <http://freshmeat.net/projects/mime/>, which has the description:

	MIME-tool constructs MIME encoded messages with file
	attachments.

Further down the list, there is "MIME Email message class" at 
<http://freshmeat.net/projects/mimemessageclass/>, which has the description:

	The MIME Email message class composes and sends MIME encoded
	email messages. It features user-definable headers and body
	parts, support for plain text and HTML body, headers with
	non-ASCII text, HTML messages with embedded images, file
	attachments with content type detection, forwarding of
	messages as attachments, setting the error delivery address
	with the Return-Path header, and sub-classes for different
	delivery methods: mail, SMTP, Qmail, Sendmail, and Microsoft
	IIS or Exchange pickup folder. It also supports sending
	personalized bulk mail by replacing the message parts that
	differ for each recipient.

Then there's "Gmime" at <http://freshmeat.net/projects/gmime/>, with the 
description:

	GMime is a library and set of utilities for parsing and
	creating messages using the Multipurpose Internet Mail
	Extension (MIME).

And "mbox.sh" at <http://freshmeat.net/projects/mboxsh/>:

	This shell script will extract all headers and bodies of a
	MIME email message recursively into a directory tree. It will
	also do the reverse operation, walking through a directory
	tree and regenerating a MIME email message. This script
	allows you to edit, delete, and add email message components
	as if they were files.

A more Pythonic answer is "MFMail" at <http://freshmeat.net/projects/mfmail/>:

	MFMail is a simple Python-program to mail one or more files from
	the command-line as a MIME-multipart message.


It didn't take long to find all these.  It took me much longer to type up 
the message and cut-n-paste URLs and descriptions.

Anyway, I know these aren't the only such toolkits, but you could at least 
start with these and see if one or more works for you.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Apr 17 18:09:14 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:09:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need capability of link to archived messages
In-Reply-To: <1208434994.3651.68.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
References: <PC17602008041617463302968bb1e829@msapiro>
	<1208434994.3651.68.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <4807762A.2080307@shub-internet.org>

Darren G Pifer wrote:

> The issue was no such much the moderator had to approve the message
> because of the size but the fact that the e-mail messages to the list
> are rather large.  It took about 10 munites to get my Evolution client
> to read the entire message.  Mailman is probably not the software we not
> to use for this kind of function, that is, storing backup logs, but it
> is convenient.

Even if Mailman3 will be able to tell you within the message itself what the 
URL is to the same content in the archives, Mailman isn't going to strip off 
the body of the message unless the logs are recognized as some sort of 
"attachment" and you've turned on "scrub_nondigest".

What you guys really need is a document management system that has an e-mail 
interface.  Once the backup log has been put into the document management 
system, it could send out an e-mail message with the URL to where the log is 
stored, and that e-mail message could go out to the mailing list.


Myself, in managing the mailing lists and mail system for python.org (where 
this mailing list is hosted), I run daily reports which send their output to 
a private archived mailing list, where I'm the only subscriber.  So, I get 
to see the reports sent to me by e-mail, and I can go back in the archives 
online if I need to pull out historical information from a while back.

But these are relatively short reports, not something nearly as massive as 
backup logs.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Apr 17 17:11:29 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:11:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <2318C3D1B2172948B6F93E77869AF1FBCD0B79@pant50.fcg.com>
References: <2318C3D1B2172948B6F93E77869AF1FBCD0B79@pant50.fcg.com>
Message-ID: <200804171506.m3HF6r8o002086@newbox.eroded.org>

Moss, Patricia wrote:
>I could not find much documentation on upgrading from mailman version
>2.1.5 to version 2.1.9.  I want to make sure that it is as simple as
>backing up my current install then run 'configure' and 'make install'.
>The new will overwrite the old and convert what needs to be converted;
>would this be a correct statement?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

With the addition that if you are using any third party patches to 
your installation, you will need to re-apply them before your make 
step. So essentially, yes, it is pretty much that simple.

A couple of things to note...

The file config.log in the source directory for the previous release 
will have the configure command that you used to install that 
version. (You did keep that around? If not, you may have to reinvent 
what was done last install).

If anyone has incorrectly edited Defaults.py instead of putting 
things in mm_cfg.py, those changes will be lost.



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Apr 17 18:17:36 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:17:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email response very slow using Mailman
	and	sendmail
In-Reply-To: <2DE012B637518B4BB1F1C1F4AA570FB8021DBA1E@ENG-EXCHANGE1.ad.bu.edu>
References: <2DE012B637518B4BB1F1C1F4AA570FB8021A390D@ENG-EXCHANGE1.ad.bu.edu>	<PC17602008041618333802967877efae@msapiro>
	<2DE012B637518B4BB1F1C1F4AA570FB8021DBA1E@ENG-EXCHANGE1.ad.bu.edu>
Message-ID: <48077820.9060406@shub-internet.org>

Patil, Manjiri S wrote:

> I do see that SENDAMAIL is trying to send messages only to bunch of
> people which varies from 10 to 50 at time. Also how do I tune up
> SENDMAIL with number of recipients to process at one time?

Ten to fifty users is actually quite a lot.  You're not likely to get too 
much more than this, because a lot of MTAs on the Internet are configured to 
refuse to accept messages from you if you've got too many recipients.  Some 
of these sites set the limit as low as ten users, some set it higher (like 
fifty or 100).

In your case, turning on personalization and VERP may actually help your 
message delivery because you won't be triggering such limitations, and you'd 
have a better idea of which recipients were causing problems for you.  Even 
though this would reduce the number of recipients per message, the end 
result may well be an improvement.

> ****Apr 17 09:30:30 smgpub sendmail[27208]: m3HD1x7v027207:
> to=<awolk at bu.edu>, delay=00:28:31, xdelay=00:28:31, mailer=esmtp 
> 9147447, relay=relay.bu.edu. [128.197.27.198], dsn=5.1.1, stat=User
> unknown

Thirty minute delay once sendmail got the message.  That's a sendmail issue, 
or an issue with the remote site.

> ****Apr 17 10:00:02 smgpub sendmail[27208]: m3HD1x7v027207:
> to=<... at bu.edu>,<.... at bu.edu>,<....da at bu.edu>,<.....@>
> ,<.... at bu.edu>,<.... at bu.edu [more], delay=00:58:03, xdelay=00:58:03,
> mailer=esmtp, pri=9147447, relay.bu.edu. [128.197.27.198], dsn=2.0.0,
> stat=Sent (m3HD1x78004079 Message accepted for delivery)

One hour delay, once sendmail got the message.  Again, that's a sendmail 
issue, or an issue with the remote site.

> ****Apr 17 10:00:02 smgpub sendmail[27208]: m3HD1x7v027207:
> to=<rkgupta at bu.edu [more], delay=00:58:03, xdelay=00:58:03,
> mailer=esmtp, pri=
> 7, relay=relay.bu.edu. [128.197.27.198], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> (m3HD1x78004079 Message accepted for delivery)

Ditto.

> ****Apr 17 10:00:02 smgpub sendmail[27208]: m3HD1x7v027207:
> to=<tbrennan at bu.edu>, delay=00:58:03, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=es
> ri=9147447, relay=relay.bu.edu. [128.197.27.198], dsn=5.1.1, stat=User
> unknown

Ditto.

> ****Apr 17 11:01:03 smgpub sendmail[27208]: m3HD1x7v027207:
> to=<sgsegal at bu.edu>, [more], delay=01:59:04, xdelay=01:01:01,
> mailer=esmtp, pri=9147447, relay=relay.bu.edu. [128.197.27.198],
> dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (m3HD1x7A004079 Message accepted for delivery)

Two hour delay, once sendmail got the message.


None of these really have anything to do with Mailman.  You need to fix your 
sendmail configuration, or talk to the people at the remote sites and find 
out why they're causing such huge delays.  Get a copy of the book "Sendmail 
Performance Tuning" by Nick Christenson.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brillig at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Apr 17 18:22:17 2008
From: brillig at dsl.pipex.com (Dave Hillam)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:22:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Third party unsubscribe request
In-Reply-To: <48062FCC.2050400@shub-internet.org>
References: <613268951.20080416153509@dsl.pipex.com>
	<48062FCC.2050400@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <249143672.20080417172217@dsl.pipex.com>

On Wednesday, April 16, 2008, 5:56:44 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> Dave Hillam wrote:

>> But - other than tell him to ignore the unsubscribe request, what can
>> I do as listadmin in these circumstances?

> There's not much you can do.  You might be able to go through your logs and
> get some information about the unsubscription request that came through, and
> if you've got the IP address of the sender and an accurate date/time stamp,
> you could send a note to postmaster@ or abuse@ for that site and ask that
> they take care of the issue.  But beyond that, there's not much.

Yes, I will have a look at the mail logs and see what that reveals,
thanks.

I reckon that it's more of a presentation issue - why tell people to
contact the listadmin, if there's nothing that can be done? On the
other hand, it gives a point of contact/reassurance for list members
who may get confused/upset at this, I suppose.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I'm minded to change the
boilerplate response text, but am not certain whether this would be a
Good Idea.

Cheers

Dave Hillam


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Apr 17 19:45:51 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 02:45:51 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need capability of link to archived messages
In-Reply-To: <1208434994.3651.68.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
References: <PC17602008041617463302968bb1e829@msapiro>
	<1208434994.3651.68.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <87y77cnzn4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Darren G Pifer writes:

 > The issue was no such much the moderator had to approve the message
 > because of the size but the fact that the e-mail messages to the list
 > are rather large.

This stripping would be almost trivial except that it's difficult to
predict what the URL would be (archiving is done asynchronously).  If
you can predict what the URL will be, then I believe it would be a few
lines of Python to demote the body (ie, the log's text) to a MIME part
before passing it to the archiver.  At that point you use the
stripping function in the archiver.  Finally, after the archiver gets
it, you remove that MIME part, too, and substitute the URL.

If logs are submitted to the system at reasonably long intervals, it
should be possible to predict the URL with sufficient accuracy.

I gather you're not in a hurry, maybe I can take a hack at this over
the weekend.  It would be helpful to know the pattern with which logs
are generated at your site.

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Apr 17 19:49:30 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 02:49:30 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Third party unsubscribe request
In-Reply-To: <249143672.20080417172217@dsl.pipex.com>
References: <613268951.20080416153509@dsl.pipex.com>
	<48062FCC.2050400@shub-internet.org>
	<249143672.20080417172217@dsl.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <87wsmwnzh1.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Dave Hillam writes:

 > I reckon that it's more of a presentation issue - why tell people to
 > contact the listadmin, if there's nothing that can be done? On the
 > other hand, it gives a point of contact/reassurance for list members
 > who may get confused/upset at this, I suppose.

That's the main point.

 > Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I'm minded to change the
 > boilerplate response text, but am not certain whether this would be a
 > Good Idea.

A Better Presentation would be a Good Idea, IMHO.  If you can come up
with one.  Removing the pointer to the list admin isn't, IMHO, because
it does happen that somebody within the admin's domain is doing this
mischievously or maliciously, and they may have the power to
discipline the miscreant.

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Thu Apr 17 19:55:15 2008
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:55:15 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email response very slow using Mailman and
	sendmail
In-Reply-To: <2DE012B637518B4BB1F1C1F4AA570FB8021DBA1E@ENG-EXCHANGE1.ad.bu.edu>
Message-ID: <200804171755.m3HHtFo3023322@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Patil, Manjiri S has said:
> 
> 
> Hi Hank and mark , 
> 
(snipping for brevity)

> I do see that SENDAMAIL is trying to send messages only to bunch of
> people which varies from 10 to 50 at time. Also how do I tune up
> SENDMAIL with number of recipients to process at one time?
> 
> 
> ****Apr 17 09:30:30 smgpub sendmail[27208]: m3HD1x7v027207:
> to=<awolk at bu.edu>, delay=00:28:31, xdelay=00:28:31, mailer=esmtp 
> 9147447, relay=relay.bu.edu. [128.197.27.198], dsn=5.1.1, stat=User
> unknown
> 
> ****Apr 17 10:00:02 smgpub sendmail[27208]: m3HD1x7v027207:
> to=<... at bu.edu>,<.... at bu.edu>,<....da at bu.edu>,<.....@>
> ,<.... at bu.edu>,<.... at bu.edu [more], delay=00:58:03, xdelay=00:58:03,
> mailer=esmtp, pri=9147447, relay.bu.edu. [128.197.27.198], dsn=2.0.0,
> stat=Sent (m3HD1x78004079 Message accepted for delivery)
> 
> ****Apr 17 10:00:02 smgpub sendmail[27208]: m3HD1x7v027207:
> to=<rkgupta at bu.edu [more], delay=00:58:03, xdelay=00:58:03,
> mailer=esmtp, pri=
> 7, relay=relay.bu.edu. [128.197.27.198], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> (m3HD1x78004079 Message accepted for delivery)
> 

I've snipped out a lot of you post for brevity, but it does seem clear
from what you've provided that your issues are primarily sendmail
issues, not Mailman.  

I'll make the assumption that your listmember base is all, or almost
all, at bu.edu, and that it is primarily students (plus faculty).  

You did not show the log message showing the outgoing message from
listname-bounces (Mailman) that give the size and nrcpts.  This is
what is being sent by Mailman as MUA to sendmail as MTA.  Also, please
don't snip log messages when posting them.  

I see a couple of things you can probably change to get radical
improvement fairly quickly.

1. If your outgoing (from listname-bounces) log message shows
nrcpts=50, or some other big number, put a limit on what Mailman is
allowed to send.  In the $MMROOT/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py file, put
in (or modify an existing) line to read:

SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 5

Then restart the Mailman Qrunner daemons.  

Reason:  sendmail will terminate sending of multiple recipient mails
on the first failure.  The remaining messages are deferred for retry.
Your user base is probably high-turnover (students entering and
leaving), so a lot of your delays are "peeling the onion" retries.

2. It appears that your sendmail outgoing daemon is being started with
a retry time of 1 hour.  Do a ps -ef |grep sendmail and look for lines
that read

 /usr/lib/sendmail -bd -q1h

The -q argument is the retry interval.  Find where sendmail is being
started and arrange to restart it with -q15m (15 minutes).  

Sendmail is generally started by a boot-time rc file, so you'll need
to find that file on your system (Solaris 9 is /etc/init.d/sendmail)
and adjust the startup appropriately.  

Reason:  Four retries per hour vs. 1 per hour should be obvious. Don't
cut the time down so much that sendmail retries while still processing
messages from the last retries.  

3.  Use the mailq utility to watch queue processing.  

4.  Any bounces with a DSN of 5.x.x should be going back to Mailman
and shown in the $MMROOT/mailman/logs/bounce log.  Check that you are
getting them.  Beyond that, you can set your Mailman bounce processing
from the Mailman List Administration screens.  I run with 3.0 (three
consecutive days), and 3 7-day notification intervals.  If you need to
clean up your listmember data base because of account turnover, I'd
suggest cutting that down to 2.0 bounces and 2 4-day notifications or
something similar.  

You should familiarize yourself with sendmail, and generally be on top
of any peculiar characteristics of your user base and the sites you
deliver mail to.  You should have the O'Reilly "Sendmail" (the "bat
book") and the O'Reilly sendmail 8.13 supplement.  Also, the Usenet
news group comp.mail.sendmail, the sendmail README (in the
distribution), and the sendmail web site, which has a huge (and
valuable) FAQ.

In general, the Mailman developers don't work with sendmail on a daily
basis.  I'm jumping in here as a Mailman user site manager who is
currently working delivery problems to yahoo.com listmembers, so I am
using the same resources you need to use to tune your system.  

Hank


From dpifer at odu.edu  Thu Apr 17 20:11:34 2008
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:11:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need capability of link to archived messages
In-Reply-To: <87y77cnzn4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC17602008041617463302968bb1e829@msapiro>
	<1208434994.3651.68.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
	<87y77cnzn4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <1208455894.3651.117.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 02:45 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Darren G Pifer writes:
> 
>  > The issue was no such much the moderator had to approve the message
>  > because of the size but the fact that the e-mail messages to the list
>  > are rather large.
> 
> This stripping would be almost trivial except that it's difficult to
> predict what the URL would be (archiving is done asynchronously).  If
> you can predict what the URL will be, then I believe it would be a few
> lines of Python to demote the body (ie, the log's text) to a MIME part
> before passing it to the archiver.  At that point you use the
> stripping function in the archiver.  Finally, after the archiver gets
> it, you remove that MIME part, too, and substitute the URL.
> 
> If logs are submitted to the system at reasonably long intervals, it
> should be possible to predict the URL with sufficient accuracy.

Unfortunately, the logs are sent once a hour. The frequency of this is
so the operators can review the log for certain information so they can
act on it.  We may be able change this to 2 hours but I need to check
with the head of operations.  The operators also get a printout of the
log, too, so maybe the frequency can be changed for e-mail only.

> I gather you're not in a hurry, maybe I can take a hack at this over
> the weekend.  It would be helpful to know the pattern with which logs
> are generated at your site.

I don't have time myself to work something up so I am dependent on
others for this.  If you can do this, this will help us out greatly and
I suppose others who could use this functionality.

Thanks, Darren
ODU


From giulio at troccoli.it  Thu Apr 17 21:41:33 2008
From: giulio at troccoli.it (Giulio Troccoli)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:41:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Again on HTML emails
In-Reply-To: <48077455.5040609@shub-internet.org>
References: <9618.213.86.135.44.1208357667.squirrel@www.troccoli.it>	<200804170056.m3H0uvYm014045@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<57136.213.86.135.44.1208426693.squirrel@www.troccoli.it>
	<48077455.5040609@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <4807A7ED.7030309@troccoli.it>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> Giulio Troccoli wrote:
>
>> Now my problem is how do I send proper HTML formatted emails with a
>> script? If anybody is willing to help me with that please email me, I
>> don't want to spam the list with OT emails.
>
> I'd suggest getting a MIME CLI toolkit that you can use.  Going to 
> freshmeat.net and searching for MIME, the first hit I get is for 
> "MIME-tool" at <http://freshmeat.net/projects/mime/>, which has the 
> description:
>
> [CUT]
Thanks to everybody for their help.

I'll look into those tools.

Cheers
Giulio

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Apr 17 20:55:25 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:55:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need capability of link to archived messages
In-Reply-To: <1208455894.3651.117.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
References: <PC17602008041617463302968bb1e829@msapiro>	<1208434994.3651.68.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>	<87y77cnzn4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<1208455894.3651.117.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <48079D1D.9080301@shub-internet.org>

Darren G Pifer wrote:

> I don't have time myself to work something up so I am dependent on
> others for this.  If you can do this, this will help us out greatly and
> I suppose others who could use this functionality.

As it currently exists, Mailman can't do this because the archiving function 
happens after the message is sent out to the subscribers, and therefore 
Mailman cannot know in advance what the URL would be.  If you move the 
archiving function earlier in the pipeline, then you could know what the URL 
is when you send out the message.

But I still think that what you really need is a proper document management 
system with an e-mail interface.  Using Mailman for this function is just 
.... well, maybe not quite "Wrong" with-a-capital-W, but it's certainly not 
what Mailman was designed for.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From jonathan at nerds.net  Thu Apr 17 21:25:49 2008
From: jonathan at nerds.net (Jonathan Dill)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:25:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need capability of link to archived messages
In-Reply-To: <1208348491.3651.44.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
References: <1208348491.3651.44.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <E0036174-A8AC-402C-9859-06782A848040@nerds.net>


On Apr 16, 2008, at 11:29 AM, Darren G Pifer wrote:
> We have a list that we use for keeping backup logs and sometimes these
> logs get rather large.  The list is moderated and sometimes the size  
> of
> the message goes beyond the "Maximum length in KB of message body"  
> which
> requires approval. The owner of the list wanted to know, as I do, is  
> it
> possible to get the e-mail of the message but the message contain an
> embedded URL to the stored archive instead an e-mail message with the
> log?  I am not sure but it sounds to me like some sort of webmail  
> app to
> me is needed.  Is this capability in Mailman or has someone modified
> Mailman to include this sort of functionality?

Just a thought, but maybe you could do something like that with  
MHonArc or with an email-driven trouble ticketing system like Mantis  
or OTRS.

http://www.mhonarc.org/
http://www.mantisbt.org/
http://otrs.org/

The potential advantage of something like Mantis is that it supports  
the business process by sending a "ticket" to the operator who must  
then do something to confirm that they did what they were supposed to  
do, they could also annotate and "escalate" the ticket if there is a  
problem that the operator cannot solve.

Another approach would be something like email-to-blog then generate  
an RSS feed that operators subscribe to, but like using mailman for  
this purpose, that process still does not validate that the operator  
took some action in response to the message.

A more sophisticated approach would be to tie this to an NMS like  
Zenoss or Nagios with a custom plugin that checks the log output and  
automatically raises an alert if some action is needed, the operator  
must then take some action to clear the alert.

Jonathan

From cderr at simons-rock.edu  Thu Apr 17 23:06:40 2008
From: cderr at simons-rock.edu (charlie derr)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:06:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about config_list
Message-ID: <4807BBE0.6010805@simons-rock.edu>

Hi,
	I'm trying to create a template for semi-automatic list creation, and while 'config_list -o' will dump out a floating point 
number for bounce_score_threshold correctly, when I try to use this generated config file with 'config_list -i' somehow the 
floating point value gets truncated (in a very pythonic way -- no rounding up) to an integer (though it still retains the floating 
point notation).    I discovered that I didn't actually need a floating point value there (1.0 was just as good as 0.75 for my 
purposes, so I simply used that), but since the documentation claims that a floating point value is acceptable, this seemed worth 
reporting.

version is mailman-2.1.5.1-34.rhel4.6


	mailman rocks,
		~c

From TechSubs at VibrantLivingMinistries.org  Thu Apr 17 15:29:26 2008
From: TechSubs at VibrantLivingMinistries.org (VLM TechSubs)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 06:29:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Security issues and code releases ... OO example
In-Reply-To: <1208434994.3651.68.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
References: <PC17602008041617463302968bb1e829@msapiro>
	<1208434994.3651.68.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <005701c8a08f$104df0d0$0201a8c0@vibrantlife01>

Greetings everyone,

First, I do not wish to trigger another round of flames, as we had here
yesterday WRT this topic. 

Second, and by coincidence from my perspective, the Open Office team just
issued a post that some here might find informative WRT this topic.

Third, I am not a developer. I share this only as a resource, and not as an
attempt to judge anything or suggest a course of action to anyone. 

That said ... enjoy!
Elchanan
____________

Please note that OpenOffice.org version 2.4, released on 27th March, fixed a
number of security vulnerabilities. To our knowledge, none of these has been
exploited; however, in accordance with industry best practice, we recommend
all users upgrade to 2.4.

This information has been withheld until now to ensure that all the products
derived from the OpenOffice.org codebase have been able to include these
security fixes before the public announcement of the vulnerabilities.

For full details of the vulnerabilities fixed, please see our security
bulletin http://www.openoffice.org/security/bulletin.html

The OpenOffice.org Security Team


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 17 17:10:01 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:10:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <2318C3D1B2172948B6F93E77869AF1FBCD0B79@pant50.fcg.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008041708100100782e9c48af@msapiro>

Moss, Patricia wrote:

>I could not find much documentation on upgrading from mailman version
>2.1.5 to version 2.1.9.  I want to make sure that it is as simple as
>backing up my current install then run 'configure' and 'make install'.
>The new will overwrite the old and convert what needs to be converted;
>would this be a correct statement?


Yes. See the first few paragraphs "UPGRADING FROM PREVIOUS VERSIONS" of
the UPGRADING document. That's really all that applies in a 2.1.5 to
2.1.9 upgrade.

Note that 2.1.10 final is expected to be released on April 21.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 18 01:26:16 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:26:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Only One List Is Not Working
In-Reply-To: <d80f793f0804171120y4488a6c2s2c34b0e6273f28e1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804171626160281e049c3c9@msapiro>

Carlos Williams wrote:
>>
>So now I am really at a loss on how to resolve this. The only thing I
>can think of is to delete the <everyone> and re-create it in mailman
>and re-subscibe everyone to it but I hate not understanding something
>and taking the easy way out.
>Not to mention who knows if that will even fix this problem...


So it is apparently something to do with the size of the list and in
turn, presumably the number of recipients to a single SMTP message.

What's in Mailman's smtp, smtp-failure and bounce logs? And what's in
the MTA logs relating to the message which mailman sends?

(and please copy the list on your reply)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 18 02:27:36 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:27:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Only One List Is Not Working
In-Reply-To: <d80f793f0804171321x462244efxeb2b1ef8132e4e76@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080417172736096841343f6c@msapiro>

Carlos Williams wrote:
>>
>I deleted the <everyone> list and recreated it with myself as the
>admin. It creates fine.
>I then start with 3 users (my IT staff) and subscribe them and all
>goes well. I then place
>a test email to everyone and all 3 users including myself get the
>email sent to everyone.
>I then add a bunch of email addresses (20) which consist of all my
>email accounts that begin
>with the letter "A". I subscribe them and place another test email to
>everyone and it works.
>I then add "B-Z" email addresses which consist of the remaining email
>accounts and its about
>307 addresses in total and they all subscribe no problem and then the
>test emails go straight
>to archive.
>
>What am I doing wrong? Am I hitting a limit or something?


Yes. By default Mailman will send to up to 500 recipients in one SMTP
transaction. Your MTA is not accepting that many. Your Mailman
smtp-failure log and your MTA logs should have entries telling you
this.

Set

SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 10

in mm_cfg.py and see if that helps.

(please copy any reply to the list)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rram at the-tech.mit.edu  Fri Apr 18 06:41:29 2008
From: rram at the-tech.mit.edu (Ricardo Ramirez)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 00:41:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Infinite moderation loop for one list
Message-ID: <48082679.7090701@the-tech.mit.edu>

Hello,

I am the owner of several mailman lists and I have set up very stringent 
moderation filters in an effort to curb spam. The filters work as 
expected except for one list in particular. The list is owned by itself 
and me. It is configured to send the owner notice of a pending 
moderation request immediately. The list itself has never received this 
notice, however I do. Furthermore, when a message gets flagged for 
moderation, mailman falls into an infinite loop. It's my understanding 
that this shouldn't happen because 1) Mailman is not supposed to 
moderate messages sent from itself and 2) X-BeenThere headers are 
appended to the message headers. None of the other lists I moderate 
(which are configured mostly the same) exhibit the same problems. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Ricardo Ramirez

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From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 18 07:44:34 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:44:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Infinite moderation loop for one list
In-Reply-To: <48082679.7090701@the-tech.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804172244340968254bd64a@msapiro>

Ricardo Ramirez wrote:
>
>I am the owner of several mailman lists and I have set up very stringent
>moderation filters in an effort to curb spam. The filters work as
>expected except for one list in particular. The list is owned by itself
>and me.


No list should ever be owned by itself.


>It is configured to send the owner notice of a pending
>moderation request immediately. The list itself has never received this
>notice, however I do. Furthermore, when a message gets flagged for
>moderation, mailman falls into an infinite loop. It's my understanding
>that this shouldn't happen because 1) Mailman is not supposed to
>moderate messages sent from itself


Why do you think that?


>and 2) X-BeenThere headers are
>appended to the message headers. None of the other lists I moderate
>(which are configured mostly the same) exhibit the same problems. Any ideas?


I don't know what the specific issue is with this list or why it
doesn't occur with other lists, but as I said, a list should never be
owned by itself. I'm sure if you remove the list posting address from
owner (and moderator if it's there) your problem will be solved.

FWIW, I may lack imagination, but I can't think why you would want list
owner notifications to be sent to the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dpifer at odu.edu  Fri Apr 18 14:43:33 2008
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:43:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman post log failures
Message-ID: <1208522613.1506.34.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Hello,

This morning I moved Mailman from one machine to another and believe it
is working yet I am seeing these errors in the post log:

Apr 18 08:37:43 2008 (7627) post to ssg from dpifer at odu.edu, size=2344,
message-id=<1208522260.1506.30.camel at odu.edu>, 10 failures

Is this cause for concern?  The messages are getting delivered.

Regards, Darren
ODU



From mpatil at bu.edu  Fri Apr 18 14:53:58 2008
From: mpatil at bu.edu (Patil, Manjiri S)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:53:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email response very slow using Mailman and
	sendmail
In-Reply-To: <200804171755.m3HHtFo3023322@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <2DE012B637518B4BB1F1C1F4AA570FB8021DBA1E@ENG-EXCHANGE1.ad.bu.edu>
	<200804171755.m3HHtFo3023322@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <2DE012B637518B4BB1F1C1F4AA570FB8021DBFC6@ENG-EXCHANGE1.ad.bu.edu>

Thanks a lot Hank. I will try your settings as well go through SENDAMIL
book and documentation to tweak sendmail performance.

Manjiri Patil 
mpatil at bu.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: Hank van Cleef [mailto:vancleef at lostwells.net] 
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 1:55 PM
To: Patil, Manjiri S
Cc: Mark Sapiro; Hank van Cleef; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Email response very slow using Mailman and
sendmail

The esteemed Patil, Manjiri S has said:
> 
> 
> Hi Hank and mark , 
> 
(snipping for brevity)

> I do see that SENDAMAIL is trying to send messages only to bunch of
> people which varies from 10 to 50 at time. Also how do I tune up
> SENDMAIL with number of recipients to process at one time?
> 
> 
> ****Apr 17 09:30:30 smgpub sendmail[27208]: m3HD1x7v027207:
> to=<awolk at bu.edu>, delay=00:28:31, xdelay=00:28:31, mailer=esmtp 
> 9147447, relay=relay.bu.edu. [128.197.27.198], dsn=5.1.1, stat=User
> unknown
> 
> ****Apr 17 10:00:02 smgpub sendmail[27208]: m3HD1x7v027207:
> to=<... at bu.edu>,<.... at bu.edu>,<....da at bu.edu>,<.....@>
> ,<.... at bu.edu>,<.... at bu.edu [more], delay=00:58:03, xdelay=00:58:03,
> mailer=esmtp, pri=9147447, relay.bu.edu. [128.197.27.198], dsn=2.0.0,
> stat=Sent (m3HD1x78004079 Message accepted for delivery)
> 
> ****Apr 17 10:00:02 smgpub sendmail[27208]: m3HD1x7v027207:
> to=<rkgupta at bu.edu [more], delay=00:58:03, xdelay=00:58:03,
> mailer=esmtp, pri=
> 7, relay=relay.bu.edu. [128.197.27.198], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> (m3HD1x78004079 Message accepted for delivery)
> 

I've snipped out a lot of you post for brevity, but it does seem clear
from what you've provided that your issues are primarily sendmail
issues, not Mailman.  

I'll make the assumption that your listmember base is all, or almost
all, at bu.edu, and that it is primarily students (plus faculty).  

You did not show the log message showing the outgoing message from
listname-bounces (Mailman) that give the size and nrcpts.  This is
what is being sent by Mailman as MUA to sendmail as MTA.  Also, please
don't snip log messages when posting them.  

I see a couple of things you can probably change to get radical
improvement fairly quickly.

1. If your outgoing (from listname-bounces) log message shows
nrcpts=50, or some other big number, put a limit on what Mailman is
allowed to send.  In the $MMROOT/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py file, put
in (or modify an existing) line to read:

SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 5

Then restart the Mailman Qrunner daemons.  

Reason:  sendmail will terminate sending of multiple recipient mails
on the first failure.  The remaining messages are deferred for retry.
Your user base is probably high-turnover (students entering and
leaving), so a lot of your delays are "peeling the onion" retries.

2. It appears that your sendmail outgoing daemon is being started with
a retry time of 1 hour.  Do a ps -ef |grep sendmail and look for lines
that read

 /usr/lib/sendmail -bd -q1h

The -q argument is the retry interval.  Find where sendmail is being
started and arrange to restart it with -q15m (15 minutes).  

Sendmail is generally started by a boot-time rc file, so you'll need
to find that file on your system (Solaris 9 is /etc/init.d/sendmail)
and adjust the startup appropriately.  

Reason:  Four retries per hour vs. 1 per hour should be obvious. Don't
cut the time down so much that sendmail retries while still processing
messages from the last retries.  

3.  Use the mailq utility to watch queue processing.  

4.  Any bounces with a DSN of 5.x.x should be going back to Mailman
and shown in the $MMROOT/mailman/logs/bounce log.  Check that you are
getting them.  Beyond that, you can set your Mailman bounce processing
from the Mailman List Administration screens.  I run with 3.0 (three
consecutive days), and 3 7-day notification intervals.  If you need to
clean up your listmember data base because of account turnover, I'd
suggest cutting that down to 2.0 bounces and 2 4-day notifications or
something similar.  

You should familiarize yourself with sendmail, and generally be on top
of any peculiar characteristics of your user base and the sites you
deliver mail to.  You should have the O'Reilly "Sendmail" (the "bat
book") and the O'Reilly sendmail 8.13 supplement.  Also, the Usenet
news group comp.mail.sendmail, the sendmail README (in the
distribution), and the sendmail web site, which has a huge (and
valuable) FAQ.

In general, the Mailman developers don't work with sendmail on a daily
basis.  I'm jumping in here as a Mailman user site manager who is
currently working delivery problems to yahoo.com listmembers, so I am
using the same resources you need to use to tune your system.  

Hank


From dpifer at odu.edu  Fri Apr 18 15:18:36 2008
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:18:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman post log failures
In-Reply-To: <1208522613.1506.34.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
References: <1208522613.1506.34.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <1208524716.1506.39.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Correct that, the messages are not getting delivered.  I have moved
Mailman back to the original machine.  I missed something during
the move.

Darren
ODU

On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 08:43 -0400, Darren G Pifer wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> This morning I moved Mailman from one machine to another and believe it
> is working yet I am seeing these errors in the post log:
> 
> Apr 18 08:37:43 2008 (7627) post to ssg from dpifer at odu.edu, size=2344,
> message-id=<1208522260.1506.30.camel at odu.edu>, 10 failures
> 
> Is this cause for concern?  The messages are getting delivered.
> 
> Regards, Darren
> ODU
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dpifer%40odu.edu
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 18 17:16:41 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:16:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman post log failures
In-Reply-To: <1208524716.1506.39.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020080418081641053174b85a5c@msapiro>

Darren G Pifer wrote:

>Correct that, the messages are not getting delivered.  I have moved
>Mailman back to the original machine.  I missed something during
>the move.
>
>On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 08:43 -0400, Darren G Pifer wrote:
>> 
>> This morning I moved Mailman from one machine to another and believe it
>> is working yet I am seeing these errors in the post log:
>> 
>> Apr 18 08:37:43 2008 (7627) post to ssg from dpifer at odu.edu, size=2344,
>> message-id=<1208522260.1506.30.camel at odu.edu>, 10 failures


Mailman's smtp-failure log will tell you what the failures are.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dpifer at odu.edu  Fri Apr 18 17:41:59 2008
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:41:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman post log failures
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080418081641053174b85a5c@msapiro>
References: <PC176020080418081641053174b85a5c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1208533319.1506.57.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Hi, Mark,

On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 08:16 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Darren G Pifer wrote:
> 
> >Correct that, the messages are not getting delivered.  I have moved
> >Mailman back to the original machine.  I missed something during
> >the move.
> >
> >On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 08:43 -0400, Darren G Pifer wrote:
> >> 
> >> This morning I moved Mailman from one machine to another and believe it
> >> is working yet I am seeing these errors in the post log:
> >> 
> >> Apr 18 08:37:43 2008 (7627) post to ssg from dpifer at odu.edu, size=2344,
> >> message-id=<1208522260.1506.30.camel at odu.edu>, 10 failures
> 
> 
> Mailman's smtp-failure log will tell you what the failures are.

I am seeing these errors in the smtp-failure log:

Apr 18 09:11:30 2008 (1231) Low level smtp error: (104, 'Connection
reset by peer'), msgid: <200804181200.m3IC01vP026939 at server1.odu.edu>
Apr 18 09:13:42 2008 (19445) delivery to user at odu.edu failed with code
-1: Connection unexpectedly closed
Apr 18 09:13:42 2008 (19445) delivery to user at odu.edu failed with code
-1: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')

I saw a lot of message in the retry directory.

Darren


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 18 17:55:51 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:55:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman post log failures
In-Reply-To: <1208533319.1506.57.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602008041808555105314869a866@msapiro>

Darren G Pifer wrote:
>
>I am seeing these errors in the smtp-failure log:
>
>Apr 18 09:11:30 2008 (1231) Low level smtp error: (104, 'Connection
>reset by peer'), msgid: <200804181200.m3IC01vP026939 at server1.odu.edu>
>Apr 18 09:13:42 2008 (19445) delivery to user at odu.edu failed with code
>-1: Connection unexpectedly closed
>Apr 18 09:13:42 2008 (19445) delivery to user at odu.edu failed with code
>-1: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')
>
>I saw a lot of message in the retry directory.


Your outgoing MTA (SMTP server) is rudely not accepting mail from
Mailman. These messages will be queued (in retry/) and retried at 15
minute intervals for five days before Mailman gives up on them.

If you can't figure out what's going on, there are some tips at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>
and
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.014.htp>.

Do you have SMTPHOST and/or SMTPPORT set in mm_cfg.py to some host/port
that is not appropriate after the move?

Can Mailman successfully send notices to 1 recipient, or does this
happen with all mail?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dpifer at odu.edu  Fri Apr 18 18:08:57 2008
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 12:08:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman post log failures
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008041808555105314869a866@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008041808555105314869a866@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1208534937.1506.69.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 08:55 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Darren G Pifer wrote:
> >
> >I am seeing these errors in the smtp-failure log:
> >
> >Apr 18 09:11:30 2008 (1231) Low level smtp error: (104, 'Connection
> >reset by peer'), msgid: <200804181200.m3IC01vP026939 at server1.odu.edu>
> >Apr 18 09:13:42 2008 (19445) delivery to user at odu.edu failed with code
> >-1: Connection unexpectedly closed
> >Apr 18 09:13:42 2008 (19445) delivery to user at odu.edu failed with code
> >-1: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')
> >
> >I saw a lot of message in the retry directory.
> 
> 
> Your outgoing MTA (SMTP server) is rudely not accepting mail from
> Mailman. These messages will be queued (in retry/) and retried at 15
> minute intervals for five days before Mailman gives up on them.
> 
> If you can't figure out what's going on, there are some tips at
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>
> and
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.014.htp>.

I will check out the links for where it went wrong.

> Do you have SMTPHOST and/or SMTPPORT set in mm_cfg.py to some host/port
> that is not appropriate after the move?

Yes, I checked that and did change SMTPHOST before this issue occurred.

> Can Mailman successfully send notices to 1 recipient, or does this
> happen with all mail?

Most of the messages I found in the smtp log that were successfully
delivered were for 1 recipient but there were some cases where there
were several recipients. There were about the same number of failures
in the smtp-failure log.

I will check the links you sent me.

Darren
ODU


From jonathan at nerds.net  Fri Apr 18 18:21:42 2008
From: jonathan at nerds.net (Jonathan Dill)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 12:21:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman post log failures
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008041808555105314869a866@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008041808555105314869a866@msapiro>
Message-ID: <DDF25493-E89E-48AA-897C-9A236E4C64DD@nerds.net>


On Apr 18, 2008, at 11:55 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Darren G Pifer wrote:
>>
>> I am seeing these errors in the smtp-failure log:
>>
>> Apr 18 09:11:30 2008 (1231) Low level smtp error: (104, 'Connection
>> reset by peer'), msgid: <200804181200.m3IC01vP026939 at server1.odu.edu>
>> Apr 18 09:13:42 2008 (19445) delivery to user at odu.edu failed with  
>> code
>> -1: Connection unexpectedly closed
>> Apr 18 09:13:42 2008 (19445) delivery to user at odu.edu failed with  
>> code
>> -1: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')
>>
>> I saw a lot of message in the retry directory.
>
>
> Your outgoing MTA (SMTP server) is rudely not accepting mail from
> Mailman. These messages will be queued (in retry/) and retried at 15
> minute intervals for five days before Mailman gives up on them.

If you are using a separate e-mail relay, could also be firewall  
issue, or maybe the relay does not allow the mailman box to use it as  
a relay.  Maybe the hostname or IP of the old server is still used  
somewhere, or maybe you need to fix DNS if the new server has a  
different address.  Also I have encountered problems where someone  
stuck an entry in /etc/hosts to work around some problem, then it  
caused problems later because we forgot about it.


>
>
> If you can't figure out what's going on, there are some tips at
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>
> and
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&file=faq06.014.htp>.
>
> Do you have SMTPHOST and/or SMTPPORT set in mm_cfg.py to some host/ 
> port
> that is not appropriate after the move?
>
> Can Mailman successfully send notices to 1 recipient, or does this
> happen with all mail?
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jonathan%40nerds.net
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Fri Apr 18 19:01:20 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:01:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman post log failures
In-Reply-To: <DDF25493-E89E-48AA-897C-9A236E4C64DD@nerds.net>
References: <PC17602008041808555105314869a866@msapiro>
	<DDF25493-E89E-48AA-897C-9A236E4C64DD@nerds.net>
Message-ID: <4808D3E0.3050902@Media-Brokers.com>

On 4/18/2008, Jonathan Dill (jonathan at nerds.net) wrote:
> If you are using a separate e-mail relay, could also be firewall  
> issue,

Is there by any chance a CISCO router in the mix anywhere?

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From jonathan at nerds.net  Fri Apr 18 19:27:17 2008
From: jonathan at nerds.net (Jonathan Dill)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:27:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman post log failures
In-Reply-To: <4808D3E0.3050902@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <PC17602008041808555105314869a866@msapiro>
	<DDF25493-E89E-48AA-897C-9A236E4C64DD@nerds.net>
	<4808D3E0.3050902@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <7957EC93-1F4A-46B4-8104-31455AB89446@nerds.net>


On Apr 18, 2008, at 1:01 PM, Charles Marcus wrote:

> On 4/18/2008, Jonathan Dill (jonathan at nerds.net) wrote:
>> If you are using a separate e-mail relay, could also be firewall
>> issue,
>
> Is there by any chance a CISCO router in the mix anywhere?

Yes exactly, I have seen the same type of thing with SonicWALL as  
well--the firewall sends back an RST to kill the connection, and the  
server thinks that the other end dropped the connection and you get  
"Connection unexpectedly closed".  If you have IPS and "deep packet  
inspection" there are even more reasons the firewall could decide to  
kill the connection, even if the allow / accept rules all look  
correct, hopefully there is some sign in the firewall logs if that is  
the case.

Even if there is not a firewall or router and something completely  
different is going on, you can learn a lot by picking apart a packet  
trace off the server or especially the firewall, the "follow tcp  
stream" option in wireshark or ethereal is priceless, then you can  
follow the conversation.  Even if everything is happening in loopback  
(as it should be if it is all supposed to be contained on one server)  
you can still sniff on the loopback connection.  Or you may discover  
that some of the traffic is getting sent out on the wire that is  
supposed to stay on the same box e.g. if DNS or /etc/hosts is not up  
to date.

Jonathan

From dpifer at odu.edu  Fri Apr 18 19:35:05 2008
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:35:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman post log failures
In-Reply-To: <4808D3E0.3050902@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <PC17602008041808555105314869a866@msapiro>
	<DDF25493-E89E-48AA-897C-9A236E4C64DD@nerds.net>
	<4808D3E0.3050902@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <1208540105.1506.82.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 13:01 -0400, Charles Marcus wrote:
> On 4/18/2008, Jonathan Dill (jonathan at nerds.net) wrote:
> > If you are using a separate e-mail relay, could also be firewall  
> > issue,
> 
> Is there by any chance a CISCO router in the mix anywhere?

There is a router between the 2 mail servers as they are on separate
networks but I believe the issue is with my sendmail configuration.  I
have implemented the rate control feature of sendmail and I started to
see messages like:

reject=421 4.3.2 Connection rate limit exceeded.

from the mail server. This would prevent Mailman from opening too many
connections to the local sendmail daemon causing the messages to end up
in retry, IMHO.  On occasion, I tried to restart sendmail and when the
script attempted to stop the local sendmail daemon it had shown it died
probably because of all of the connections it was receiving.  Anyhow,
that is my speculation.

I will be adding rules to sendmail's access list to unlimit the number
of sendmail connections from the machine.  Also, I am going to try to
move the list server again.

Darren
ODU 



From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 18 22:54:57 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:54:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about config_list
In-Reply-To: <4807BBE0.6010805@simons-rock.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602008041813545706564869a8e9@msapiro>

charlie derr wrote:

>... when I try to use this generated config file with 'config_list -i' somehow the 
>floating point value gets truncated (in a very pythonic way -- no rounding up) to an integer (though it still retains the floating 
>point notation).


There appears to be a bug in the validation of numeric values which
causes any floating point value of a 'standard' list attribute to be
replaced by int(value). This only affects bounce_score_threshold as
that is the only 'standard' list attribute which is a floating point
value. It also only affects config_list because of the way in which
config_list processes it's input.

Note that you can work around this by using

bounce_score_threshold = '0.75'

instead of

bounce_score_threshold = 0.75

in the input file to config_list. If the value is a string, the numeric
validatation code will work as intended and return the correct
floating point value.


>I discovered that I didn't actually need a floating point value there (1.0 was just as good as 0.75 for my 
>purposes, so I simply used that), but since the documentation claims that a floating point value is acceptable, this seemed worth 
>reporting.


Yes. As you discovered, a threshold of 1.0 is as good as 0.75, but this
is a bug and thanks for the report.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dnewman at networktest.com  Sat Apr 19 01:03:19 2008
From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:03:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] chroot, OpenBSD, Apache, and Mailman
Message-ID: <480928B7.1060909@networktest.com>

Greetings. Apologies if this has been answered before but I didn't find
a direct answer in the archives or FAQ.

Is there a howto for installing Mailman from source inside the Apache
chroot on OpenBSD?

I'm struggling with this, using Mailman 2.1.19, Postfix 2.4.3, and
OpenBSD 4.2. There's a list of installation steps pasted below.

I suspect a permissions problem. Mailman would not serve up pages when 
all files were owned by group mailman, so I did 'chgrp -R www 
/var/www/mailman'. But after trying to create a list, the
aliases file is mode 660, owned by root:www.

This is the error in /var/www/mailman/logs/error that results from
trying to create a new list:

Apr 18 11:21:00 2008 admin(1925):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(1925): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----]
admin(1925): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(1925): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(1925):   File "/var/www/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
admin(1925):     main()
admin(1925):   File "/var/www/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 56,
in main
admin(1925):     process_request(doc, cgidata)
admin(1925):   File "/var/www/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 238,
in proce
ss_request
admin(1925):     sys.modules[modname].create(mlist, cgi=1)
admin(1925):   File "/var/www/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232,
in crea
te
admin(1925):     _update_maps()
admin(1925):   File "/var/www/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53,
in _upda
te_maps
admin(1925):     raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
admin(1925): RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/local/sbin/postalias
/var/www/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)

I've also tried putting postalias inside the chroot jail but the error
above persists.

Thanks in advance for clues on getting this working.

dn



PROCEDURE FOR INSTALLING MAILMAN IN OPENBSD 4.2 APACHE CHROOT

1. Read all of the installation manual, or at least up to chapter 6,
before proceeding:

http://mailman.sourceforge.net/mailman-install/index.html

2. Grab mailman source and unpack:

  tar xzvf mailman-2.1.19.tgz

3. Add user mailman with UID/GID 91. Run adduser and follow the prompts.
Set the shell to nologin and set the password to blank, and then say yes
when asked if the user shouldn't be able to log in.

4. Create the /var/www/mailman directory where everything will go, and
set permissions and ownership:

   mkdir /var/www/mailman
   chgrp mailman /var/www/mailman
   chmod a+rx,g+ws /var/www/mailman

5. If it's not there already, install python:

pkg_add python-2.4.4p4

and create the appropriate symlinks to make this the default:

ln -s /usr/local/bin/python2.4 /usr/local/bin/python
ln -s /usr/local/bin/pydoc2.4  /usr/local/bin/pydoc

Now we need to get python into the chroot. First let's find out what
dependencies python has:

#ldd /usr/local/bin/python

/usr/local/bin/python:
         Start    End      Type Open Ref GrpRef Name
         00000000 00000000 exe  1    0   0      /usr/local/bin/python
         05054000 25096000 rlib 0    1   0
/usr/local/lib/libpython2.4.so.0.0
         068bd000 268c1000 rlib 0    1   0      /usr/lib/libutil.so.11.0
         05b7c000 25ba2000 rlib 0    1   0      /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.42.0
         070f2000 270f9000 rlib 0    1   0      /usr/lib/libm.so.2.3
         0b296000 2b29f000 rlib 0    1   0      /usr/lib/libpthread.so.8.0
         05d9d000 25dd1000 rlib 0    1   0      /usr/lib/libc.so.41.0
         0a739000 0a739000 rtld 0    1   0      /usr/libexec/ld.so

OK, so all of these files and directories need to go into the chroot jail:

mkdir -p /var/www/usr/lib
mkdir -p /var/www/usr/libexec
mkdir -p /var/www/usr/local/bin
mkdir -p /var/www/usr/local/lib
cp /usr/local/bin/python /var/www/usr/local/bin
cp /usr/local/lib/libpython2.4.so.0.0 /var/www/usr/local/lib
cp /usr/lib/libutil.so.11.0 /var/www/usr/lib
cp /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.42.0 /var/www/usr/lib
cp /usr/lib/libm.so.2.3 /var/www/usr/lib
cp /usr/lib/libpthread.so.8.0 /var/www/usr/lib
cp /usr/lib/libc.so.41.0 /var/www/usr/lib
cp /usr/libexec/ld.so /var/www/usr/libexec

And you'll also need some stuff from /etc in the chroot jail for UIDs
and GIDs to work:

mkdir -p /var/www/etc/
cp /etc/group /var/www/etc/
cp /etc/localtime /var/www/etc/
cp /etc/login.conf /var/www/etc/
cp /etc/passwd /var/www/etc/
cp /etc/pwd.db /var/www/etc/
mkdir -p /var/www/usr/share
cp -R /usr/share/nls /var/www/usr/share

6. If it's not there already (try "cc" from the command line), install 
the compilers package:

tar -C / -xzphf ${RELEASEPATH}/comp42.tar.gz

7. From the directory where you unpacked Mailman, configure and install 
the Mailman software:

./configure --prefix=/var/www/mailman --with-cgi-gid=67 \
  --with-mail-gid=201
make
make install

Assuming this goes well:

make clean

8. Check file permissions

/var/www/mailman/bin/check_perms -f

Keep repeating this step until there are no errors.

9. (Optional) Make private archives private

cd /var/www/mailman/archives
chown www private
chmod o-x private

10. Now configure the web server to use Mailman. Open
/var/www/conf/httpd.conf and add this:


ScriptAlias /mailman/       /var/www/mailman/cgi-bin/
Alias   /pipermail/     /var/www/mailman/archives/public/

<Directory "/var/www/mailman/archives/public/">
         AddDefaultCharset Off
</Directory>

If you're using VirtualHosts, then the lines above belong inside each
VirtualHost directive too, at least for the vhosts using Mailman.

And copy the Mailman icons into place:

cp /var/www/mailman/icons/*.{jpg,png} /var/www/icons/

Then restart Apache:

apachectl graceful

11. Now we set up Postfix to work with Mailman.

First, in /etc/postfix/main.cf, the GNUC docs say to change:

unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550

from its current setting of 450.

Also, it says to set:

recipient_delimiter = +

even though the current setting is:

recipient_delimiter = -

I'm not making this change for now, and sticking with the '-' setting.

12. Then proceed directly to section 6.1.2 of the docs to set up virtual
domains. We'll come back to section 6.1.1 on Postfix-Mailman integration
in a few minutes.

Specifically you want to add a pointer to the end of the
virtual_alias_maps parameter in /etc/postfix/main.cf. For example:

virtual_alias_maps =
         proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/forwardings.cf
         proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/email2email.cf
         hash:/var/www/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

13. Now put the following at the end of
/usr/local/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py, replacing 'domain1.tld' and
'domain2.tld' as appropriate with your domain names:

MTA = 'Postfix'
MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'domain1.tld'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'domain1.tld'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'
IMAGE_LOGOS = '/icons/'
MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postmap'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['domain2.tld', 'domain1.tld' ]
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
add_virtualhost('domain2.tld', 'domain2.tld')

14. Set up a site-wide mailing list called 'mailman'. Mailman MUST see
this list to start:

/var/www/mailman/bin/newlist mailman

Fill out the admin's email address and choose a password.

15. Set up Mailman maintenance as a crontab run by the mailman user:

chown -R mailman:mailman /var/www/mailman
cd /var/www/mailman/cron
crontab -u mailman crontab.in

16. Now start the mailman daemon:

/var/www/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start

After starting the program the admin named for the 'mailman' list should
get an email.

17. To start mailman every time the system starts, add these lines to
the end of /etc/rc.local:

# Mailman startup
if [ -x /var/www/mailman/bin/mailmanctl ]; then
         echo -n ' mailman'
         /var/www/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start
fi

18. Create site and list creator passwords. You want to read chapter 12
of the GNU docs carefully; these are like being root within Mailman!

/var/www/mailman/bin/mmsitepass
/var/www/mailman/bin/mmsitepass -c

19. Add mailman to www group. I don't know if this is a good security
practice (I suspect it's a bad idea) but I was unable to get Mailman to
work without this step.

In /etc/group and /var/www/etc/group:

www:*:67:mailman

and restart Apache and mailman:

apachectl restart
/var/www/mailman/bin/mailmanctl restart

20. (Necessary?) Find which postalias stuff needs to go into the chroot 
jail:

  ldd /usr/local/sbin/postalias
/usr/local/sbin/postalias:
         Start    End      Type Open Ref GrpRef Name
         00000000 00000000 exe  1    0   0      /usr/local/sbin/postalias
         015ad000 215b8000 rlib 0    2   0      /usr/lib/libssl.so.11.0
         0a28e000 2a2bd000 rlib 0    2   0      /usr/lib/libcrypto.so.13.0
         00eaf000 20ebb000 rlib 0    1   0
/usr/local/lib/libpcre.so.1.1
         0688d000 26893000 rlib 0    1   0
/usr/local/lib/libsasl2.so.2.22
         03e8c000 23eba000 rlib 0    1   0
/usr/local/lib/libmysqlclient.so.18.0
         00a26000 20a5a000 rlib 0    1   0      /usr/lib/libc.so.41.0
         08a55000 28a5d000 rlib 0    1   0      /usr/lib/libz.so.4.1
         08e39000 28e40000 rlib 0    1   0      /usr/lib/libm.so.2.3
         0d23a000 0d23a000 rtld 0    1   0      /usr/libexec/ld.so

And copy over the files:

mkdir /var/www/usr/local/sbin
cp /usr/local/sbin/postalias /var/www/usr/local/sbin/postalias
cp /usr/lib/libssl.so.11.0 /var/www/usr/lib/libssl.so.11.0
cp /usr/lib/libcrypto.so.13.0 /var/www/usr/lib/libcrypto.so.13.0
cp /usr/local/lib/libpcre.so.1.1 /var/www/usr/local/lib/libpcre.so.1.1
cp /usr/local/lib/libsasl2.so.2.22 /var/www/usr/local/lib/libsasl2.so.2.22
cp /usr/local/lib/libmysqlclient.so.18.0
/var/www/usr/local/lib/libmysqlclient.so.18.0
cp /usr/lib/libc.so.41.0 /var/www/usr/lib/libc.so.41.0
cp /usr/lib/libz.so.4.1 /var/www/usr/lib/libz.so.4.1
cp /usr/lib/libz.so.4.1 /var/www/usr/lib/libm.so.2.3
cp /usr/libexec/ld.so /var/www/usr/libexec/ld.so






From cderr at simons-rock.edu  Sat Apr 19 01:48:34 2008
From: cderr at simons-rock.edu (charlie derr)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 19:48:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about config_list
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008041813545706564869a8e9@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008041813545706564869a8e9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <48093352.3080800@simons-rock.edu>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> charlie derr wrote:
> 
>> ... when I try to use this generated config file with 'config_list -i' somehow the 
>> floating point value gets truncated (in a very pythonic way -- no rounding up) to an integer (though it still retains the floating 
>> point notation).
> 
> 
> There appears to be a bug in the validation of numeric values which
> causes any floating point value of a 'standard' list attribute to be
> replaced by int(value). This only affects bounce_score_threshold as
> that is the only 'standard' list attribute which is a floating point
> value. It also only affects config_list because of the way in which
> config_list processes it's input.
> 
> Note that you can work around this by using
> 
> bounce_score_threshold = '0.75'
> 
> instead of
> 
> bounce_score_threshold = 0.75
> 
> in the input file to config_list. If the value is a string, the numeric
> validatation code will work as intended and return the correct
> floating point value.
> 

Hah, I *almost* tried that on a hunch, but then wasn't able to build a mental model where casting to a string would ever be 
productive (when the end goal is a floating point value).  Just goes to show you that sometimes it's probably better to think less 
and stick with the hunch.  :-]

> 
>> I discovered that I didn't actually need a floating point value there (1.0 was just as good as 0.75 for my 
>> purposes, so I simply used that), but since the documentation claims that a floating point value is acceptable, this seemed worth 
>> reporting.
> 
> 
> Yes. As you discovered, a threshold of 1.0 is as good as 0.75, but this
> is a bug and thanks for the report.
> 

Thanks very much for the detailed info and explanation,
	~c


From brailleman at faradic.net  Sat Apr 19 02:35:39 2008
From: brailleman at faradic.net (J and B)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 20:35:39 -0400 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] implicit? addresses?
In-Reply-To: <480928B7.1060909@networktest.com>
References: <480928B7.1060909@networktest.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0804182029290.4649@shell.faradic.net>

greetings folks.. 
my question has no doubt been answered before I just don't seem to be able 
to find it:
so flinging myself on your mercy, I ask:
can one get mailman, which BTW is a lovely piece of software, to accept 
messages with undisclosed recipients in the too field??  Without my 
needing to go approve every single one.. if so, wherefore 
and how?? 
thanks a lot and sorry to be a pain, but since I gotta be something I 
may 
as well be that :-) 

-- 
Jack and Bakey :o)

"To make mistakes is human; to stumble is commonplace; 
to
be Able to Laugh at yourself is maturity." --William Ward


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Apr 19 04:22:07 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:22:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] implicit? addresses?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0804182029290.4649@shell.faradic.net>
References: <480928B7.1060909@networktest.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.61.0804182029290.4649@shell.faradic.net>
Message-ID: <p06240804c42f079de862@[198.18.100.115]>

On 4/18/08, J and B wrote:

>  can one get mailman, which BTW is a lovely piece of software, to accept
>  messages with undisclosed recipients in the too field??  Without my
>  needing to go approve every single one.. if so, wherefore
>  and how??

Check out the settings for "require_explicit_destination" under 
Privacy Options... -> Recipient Filters

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 19 05:27:20 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 20:27:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] chroot, OpenBSD, Apache, and Mailman
In-Reply-To: <480928B7.1060909@networktest.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804182027200281d91ecc2d@msapiro>

David Newman wrote:
>
>Is there a howto for installing Mailman from source inside the Apache
>chroot on OpenBSD?


I don't think so. There are some posts in the list archives, but I
think mostly questions and maybe answers.


>I'm struggling with this, using Mailman 2.1.19, Postfix 2.4.3, and
>OpenBSD 4.2. There's a list of installation steps pasted below.


I've snipped most of that except where I have comments.


>I suspect a permissions problem. Mailman would not serve up pages when 
>all files were owned by group mailman, so I did 'chgrp -R www 
>/var/www/mailman'. But after trying to create a list, the
>aliases file is mode 660, owned by root:www.


This is probably a mistake. Mailman relies on everything being group
Mailman and the CGI and mail wrappers being group Mailman and SETGID
so everything runs as group Mailman. If the chroot jail doesn't allow
SETGID to work, then I'm not sure what you'ld need to do, but whatever
user:group structure you have, both the web server and the MTA have to
be able to write various Mailman files.



>This is the error in /var/www/mailman/logs/error that results from
>trying to create a new list:
>
>Apr 18 11:21:00 2008 admin(1925):
>@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>admin(1925): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----]
>admin(1925): [----- Traceback ------]
>admin(1925): Traceback (most recent call last):
>admin(1925):   File "/var/www/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
>admin(1925):     main()
>admin(1925):   File "/var/www/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 56,
>in main
>admin(1925):     process_request(doc, cgidata)
>admin(1925):   File "/var/www/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 238,
>in proce
>ss_request
>admin(1925):     sys.modules[modname].create(mlist, cgi=1)
>admin(1925):   File "/var/www/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232,
>in crea
>te
>admin(1925):     _update_maps()
>admin(1925):   File "/var/www/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53,
>in _upda
>te_maps
>admin(1925):     raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
>admin(1925): RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/local/sbin/postalias
>/var/www/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)
>
>I've also tried putting postalias inside the chroot jail but the error
>above persists.


postalias has to be able to read data/aliases and write data/aliases.db
when running as the group of the web server unless the SETGID on the
cgi-bin/create wrapper works.


>Also, it says to set:
>
>recipient_delimiter = +
>
>even though the current setting is:
>
>recipient_delimiter = -
>
>I'm not making this change for now, and sticking with the '-' setting.


This will cause problems if you want to use any of Mailman's VERP like
options. All the templates and regexps are set to use '+' as the
delimiter, although they can be changed to use '-', it's tedious at
best.


>19. Add mailman to www group. I don't know if this is a good security
>practice (I suspect it's a bad idea) but I was unable to get Mailman to
>work without this step.
>
>In /etc/group and /var/www/etc/group:
>
>www:*:67:mailman
>
>and restart Apache and mailman:
>
>apachectl restart
>/var/www/mailman/bin/mailmanctl restart


Presumably, if this is necessary, it's because SETGID doesn't work for
the wrappers inside the jail.


>20. (Necessary?) Find which postalias stuff needs to go into the chroot 
>jail:
>
>  ldd /usr/local/sbin/postalias


If you need to do this for postalias, you also will need it for postmap
because the same thing applies to data/virtual-mailman*.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brailleman at faradic.net  Sat Apr 19 08:10:09 2008
From: brailleman at faradic.net (J and B)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 02:10:09 -0400 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] implicit? addresses?
In-Reply-To: <p06240804c42f079de862@[198.18.100.115]>
References: <480928B7.1060909@networktest.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.61.0804182029290.4649@shell.faradic.net>
	<p06240804c42f079de862@[198.18.100.115]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0804190209390.9321@shell.faradic.net>

Thanks Brad..
I found it..


-- 
Jack and Bakey :o)

"To make mistakes is human; to stumble is commonplace; 
to
be Able to Laugh at yourself is maturity." --William Ward

On Fri, 18 Apr 2008, Brad Knowles wrote:

> On 4/18/08, J and B wrote:
> 
> > can one get mailman, which BTW is a lovely piece of software, to accept
> > messages with undisclosed recipients in the too field??  Without my
> > needing to go approve every single one.. if so, wherefore
> > and how??
> 
> Check out the settings for "require_explicit_destination" under Privacy
> Options... -> Recipient Filters
> 
> 

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Sat Apr 19 17:37:13 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 11:37:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman post log failures
In-Reply-To: <1208540105.1506.82.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
References: <PC17602008041808555105314869a866@msapiro>	
	<DDF25493-E89E-48AA-897C-9A236E4C64DD@nerds.net>	
	<4808D3E0.3050902@Media-Brokers.com>
	<1208540105.1506.82.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <480A11A9.10804@Media-Brokers.com>

On 4/18/2008, Darren G Pifer (dpifer at odu.edu) wrote:
> There is a router between the 2 mail servers as they are on separate
> networks but I believe the issue is with my sendmail configuration.  I
> have implemented the rate control feature of sendmail and I started to
> see messages like:

Ok, but fyi the reason I asked specifically about a CISCO Pix router is 
they are known to cause lots of problems with smtp services if the smtp 
fixup protocol is enabled...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From dnewman at networktest.com  Sat Apr 19 22:10:29 2008
From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 13:10:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] chroot, OpenBSD, Apache, and Mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200804182027200281d91ecc2d@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200804182027200281d91ecc2d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <480A51B5.6050403@networktest.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> I suspect a permissions problem. Mailman would not serve up pages when 
>> all files were owned by group mailman, so I did 'chgrp -R www 
>> /var/www/mailman'. But after trying to create a list, the
>> aliases file is mode 660, owned by root:www.
> 
> 
> This is probably a mistake. Mailman relies on everything being group
> Mailman and the CGI and mail wrappers being group Mailman and SETGID
> so everything runs as group Mailman. If the chroot jail doesn't allow
> SETGID to work, then I'm not sure what you'ld need to do, but whatever
> user:group structure you have, both the web server and the MTA have to
> be able to write various Mailman files.

Yes, that's the key issue. The OpenBSD chroot won't SETGID in part 
because it mounts the /var partition nosuid, which forbids SETGID. In 
theory it's possible to disable this, and get the python and other 
binaries and libraries into the chroot environment, but at that point 
there's really no benefit to running chroot'ed.

The much easier (if somewhat less secure) solution is to run Apache 
without chroot. Just set 'httpd_flags=-u' in /etc/rc.conf.

After restarting Apache, Mailman installed clean with the default 
configure options.

thanks very much

dn


From zszalbot at gmail.com  Mon Apr 21 18:10:21 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:10:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] =?utf-8?q?sync=5Fmembers_script?=
Message-ID: <f4e97eccd449144dd089dab2bddf9378@localhost>


Hello, 
Just wanted to ask how you manage the following situation: 

There is a list of people you keep in an sql database. This database is
edited/updated daily. From time to time you want to contact these people,
so you export them as a flat file and import into Mailman (for example by
using sync_members script). 

You do the mailing and some addresses are removed from Mailman. When you
next time sync members from you sql database with Mailman, the sync_members
script will add the previously removed members again, won't it (as they
will not exist in mailman but will be in a flat file exported from sql
database)? 

How do you handle this situation? When you get information about
Mailman-unsubscribed emails, do you remove them then from your sql
database? Is there any other way round it? 

Thanks! 

Zbigniew Szalbot


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Mon Apr 21 18:29:57 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:29:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sync_members script
In-Reply-To: <f4e97eccd449144dd089dab2bddf9378@localhost>
References: <f4e97eccd449144dd089dab2bddf9378@localhost>
Message-ID: <200804211624.m3LGOfJh010978@newbox.eroded.org>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:

>Hello,
>Just wanted to ask how you manage the following situation:
>
>There is a list of people you keep in an sql database. This database is
>edited/updated daily. From time to time you want to contact these people,
>so you export them as a flat file and import into Mailman (for example by
>using sync_members script).
>
>You do the mailing and some addresses are removed from Mailman. When you
>next time sync members from you sql database with Mailman, the sync_members
>script will add the previously removed members again, won't it (as they
>will not exist in mailman but will be in a flat file exported from sql
>database)?
>
>How do you handle this situation? When you get information about
>Mailman-unsubscribed emails, do you remove them then from your sql
>database? Is there any other way round it?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Zbigniew Szalbot
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

If you are running a responsible opt-in mailing list, I think it is 
your responsibility to make sure that the unsubscribes are propagated 
back into your SQL database.

Doing anything else is at best negligent and at worst it is willfully 
ignoring the wishes of people to no longer receive your mailing.

What you need to do in this case is to process the unsubscribe 
notices from mailman and then remove the corresponding e-mail 
addresses from the database. This should not be too hard to do with a 
script in your favorite language.


Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From zszalbot at gmail.com  Mon Apr 21 18:36:19 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:36:19 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] =?utf-8?q?sync=5Fmembers_script?=
In-Reply-To: <200804211624.m3LGOfJh010978@newbox.eroded.org>
References: <f4e97eccd449144dd089dab2bddf9378@localhost>
	<200804211624.m3LGOfJh010978@newbox.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <914642cd0f2462a0170745fe34eee713@localhost>


Hi,

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:29:57 -0700, Dragon <dragon at crimson-dragon.com>
wrote:
> Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
> 
>>Hello,
>>Just wanted to ask how you manage the following situation:
>>
>>There is a list of people you keep in an sql database. This database is
>>edited/updated daily. From time to time you want to contact these people,
>>so you export them as a flat file and import into Mailman (for example by
>>using sync_members script).
>>
>>You do the mailing and some addresses are removed from Mailman. When you
>>next time sync members from you sql database with Mailman, the
> sync_members
>>script will add the previously removed members again, won't it (as they
>>will not exist in mailman but will be in a flat file exported from sql
>>database)?
>>
>>How do you handle this situation? When you get information about
>>Mailman-unsubscribed emails, do you remove them then from your sql
>>database? Is there any other way round it?
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>Zbigniew Szalbot
> ---------------- End original message. ---------------------
> 
> If you are running a responsible opt-in mailing list, I think it is
> your responsibility to make sure that the unsubscribes are propagated
> back into your SQL database.

Absolutely - I was just hoping I wouldn't have to do it by hand... Sure if
I had the unsubscribed addresses in a flat file, it would be easy to run an
sql query to remove them from the sql database. I am just not thrilled
about opening each unsbuscribed message and copying the email address into
a file.

Thanks!

Zbigniew Szalbot



From sciamano72 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 21 18:43:36 2008
From: sciamano72 at gmail.com (Sciamano)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:43:36 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments and blank messages
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080412095822040607b42e4c@msapiro>
References: <57cffa630804120918u681dd019g533b026e2cad3eed@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC176020080412095822040607b42e4c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <57cffa630804210943g6c0b0045l4d09481aa4b8fc9d@mail.gmail.com>

I promised I would report back on this issue, and can now confirm that
with the filtering settings suggested by Mark, the posts from "office
man" and those from "excite man" both get delivered by Mailman
correctly, although some MUAs have problems visualizing those from
"office man".

Therefore, there is no "real" solution, apart from inviting the
members affected by this problem to change their MUA to something more
MIME friendly.

Thanks for helping me out.
Luca

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Mon Apr 21 18:54:36 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:54:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sync_members script
In-Reply-To: <914642cd0f2462a0170745fe34eee713@localhost>
References: <f4e97eccd449144dd089dab2bddf9378@localhost>
	<200804211624.m3LGOfJh010978@newbox.eroded.org>
	<914642cd0f2462a0170745fe34eee713@localhost>
Message-ID: <200804211649.m3LGnKYl011221@newbox.eroded.org>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:

>Hi,
>
>On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:29:57 -0700, Dragon <dragon at crimson-dragon.com>
>wrote:
> > Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
> >
> >>Hello,
> >>Just wanted to ask how you manage the following situation:
> >>
> >>There is a list of people you keep in an sql database. This database is
> >>edited/updated daily. From time to time you want to contact these people,
> >>so you export them as a flat file and import into Mailman (for example by
> >>using sync_members script).
> >>
> >>You do the mailing and some addresses are removed from Mailman. When you
> >>next time sync members from you sql database with Mailman, the
> > sync_members
> >>script will add the previously removed members again, won't it (as they
> >>will not exist in mailman but will be in a flat file exported from sql
> >>database)?
> >>
> >>How do you handle this situation? When you get information about
> >>Mailman-unsubscribed emails, do you remove them then from your sql
> >>database? Is there any other way round it?
> >>
> >>Thanks!
> >>
> >>Zbigniew Szalbot
> > ---------------- End original message. ---------------------
> >
> > If you are running a responsible opt-in mailing list, I think it is
> > your responsibility to make sure that the unsubscribes are propagated
> > back into your SQL database.
>
>Absolutely - I was just hoping I wouldn't have to do it by hand... Sure if
>I had the unsubscribed addresses in a flat file, it would be easy to run an
>sql query to remove them from the sql database. I am just not thrilled
>about opening each unsbuscribed message and copying the email address into
>a file.
>
>Thanks!
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Why do it manually? Mailman lets you send unsubscribe notices to the 
list owner. You could add another address to the list owner setting 
that would receive the e-mails and then pipe them to a script to 
extract the data automatically.

At least that is how I would do it.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From zszalbot at gmail.com  Mon Apr 21 20:18:25 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:18:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] =?utf-8?q?sync=5Fmembers_script?=
In-Reply-To: <200804211649.m3LGnKYl011221@newbox.eroded.org>
References: <f4e97eccd449144dd089dab2bddf9378@localhost>
Message-ID: <20080421181826.1DF8328438@lists.lc-words.com>

<200804211624.m3LGOfJh010978 at newbox.eroded.org>
<914642cd0f2462a0170745fe34eee713 at localhost> <200804211649.m3LGnKYl011221 at newbox.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <042b96ffd5b5beb339b428a1a3f8ea21 at localhost>
X-Sender: zszalbot at gmail.com
Received: from 77-254-86-54.adsl.inetia.pl [77.254.86.54]
	 with HTTP/1.1 (POST); Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:18:25 +0200
User-Agent: RoundCube Webmail
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


Hello,

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:54:36 -0700, Dragon <dragon at crimson-dragon.com>
wrote:
>> >>How do you handle this situation? When you get information about
>> >>Mailman-unsubscribed emails, do you remove them then from your sql
>> >>database? Is there any other way round it?

>>Absolutely - I was just hoping I wouldn't have to do it by hand... Sure
> if
>>I had the unsubscribed addresses in a flat file, it would be easy to run
> an
>>sql query to remove them from the sql database. I am just not thrilled
>>about opening each unsbuscribed message and copying the email address
> into
>>a file.

> Why do it manually? Mailman lets you send unsubscribe notices to the
> list owner. You could add another address to the list owner setting
> that would receive the e-mails and then pipe them to a script to
> extract the data automatically.

Ashamed to ask but since I am no programmer, would anyone have such a
script? 

Many thanks in advance!

Zbigniew Szalbot


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr 21 21:50:01 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:50:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10 has been released
In-Reply-To: <4803DF19.3030406@msapiro.net>
References: <47D9E26E.4040708@msapiro.net> <47F7B288.6020801@msapiro.net>
	<4803DF19.3030406@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <480CEFE9.5000008@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I am happy to announce the release of Mailman 2.1.10.

This is a security and bug fix release and it is highly recommended
that all sites upgrade to this version. Mailman 2.1.10 also adds support
for three new language translations, Galician, Hebrew and Slovak and a
few new features.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and e-
newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, including download links, please see:

http://www.list.org
http://mailman.sf.net
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman

Special thanks are due to Barry Warsaw and Tokio Kikuchi for much coding
and support, Moritz Naumann for help with security issues and Jim Tittsler
for a significant patch.

Here's a list of the major changes.

Security

- - The 2.1.9 fixes for CVE-2006-3636 were not complete.  In particular,
some potential cross-site scripting attacks were not detected in
editing templates and updating the list's info attribute via the web
admin interface.  This has been assigned CVE-2008-0564 and has been
fixed.  Thanks again to Moritz Naumann for assistance with this.

- - There is a new mm_cfg.py/Defaults.py variable
OWNERS_CAN_CHANGE_MEMBER_PASSWORDS which controls whether the list
owner can change a member's password from the member's options page.
This defaults to No and should be changed to Yes only if list owners
are trusted to not change a member's password, log in as the member
and make global membership changes.

Note: If you are not ready to upgrade, patches for these two issues
are available at
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=103
in the 2.1.9 file list.

New Features

- - Changed cmd_who.py to list all members if authorization is with the
list's admin or moderator password and to accept the password if the
roster is public. Also changed the web roster to show hidden members
when authorization is by site or list's admin or moderator password
(1587651).

- - Added the ability to put a list name in accept_these_nonmembers
to accept posts from members of that list (1220144).

- - Added a new 'sibling list' feature to exclude members of another list
from receiving a post from this list if the other list is in the To: or
Cc: of the post or to include members of the other list if that list is
not in the To: or Cc: of the post (Patch ID 1347962).

- - Added the admin_member_chunksize attribute to the admin General Options
interface (Bug 1072002, Partial RFE 782436).

Internationalization

- - Added the Hebrew translation from Dov Zamir. This includes addition of
a direction ('ltr', 'rtl') to the LC_DESCRIPTIONS table. The
add_language() function defaults direction to 'ltr' to not break
existing mm_cfg.py files.

- - Added the Slovak translation from Martin Matuska.

- - Added the Galician translation from Frco. Javier Rial Rodr?guez.


- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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iD8DBQFIDO/oVVuXXpU7hpMRAngiAKCwIOhSJJrCaY3afhGJQN339/dKuACeMckR
SI7DwCHcYONnIj3LoNYueC0=
=DO/d
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From yahoo at jimpop.com  Mon Apr 21 22:54:49 2008
From: yahoo at jimpop.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:54:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10 has been released
In-Reply-To: <480CEFE9.5000008@msapiro.net>
References: <47D9E26E.4040708@msapiro.net> <47F7B288.6020801@msapiro.net>
	<4803DF19.3030406@msapiro.net> <480CEFE9.5000008@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <7ff145960804211354t2c506363k60f114022d2050f0@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 3:50 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>  Note: If you are not ready to upgrade, patches for these two issues
>  are available at
>  http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=103
>  in the 2.1.9 file list.

THANK YOU!

-Jim P.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Apr 21 23:28:16 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:28:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10 has been released
In-Reply-To: <480CEFE9.5000008@msapiro.net>
References: <47D9E26E.4040708@msapiro.net>
	<47F7B288.6020801@msapiro.net>	<4803DF19.3030406@msapiro.net>
	<480CEFE9.5000008@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <480D06F0.5020009@shub-internet.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I am happy to announce the release of Mailman 2.1.10.

Now running on mail.python.org.  Please let us know if there are any problems.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mcnutt at utk.edu  Mon Apr 21 17:49:18 2008
From: mcnutt at utk.edu (McNutt Jr, William R)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:49:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding a Particular Outbound Message
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6.1208685608.30095.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <0913EC48F2B05C4FBE4878BAFCABBFEC01FF1BA3@KFSVS2.utk.tennessee.edu>

Mailmain is currently not sending traffic.  But that's okay at the
moment.  One of my users wants to cancel a message she's sent.  Normally
I couldn't do this, because traffic goes out too fast for me to catch
it.

But since right now nothing's moving, I told her I'd try before I
re-started mailman.  Where would I look to find an outgoing message?

Bill 

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+mcnutt=utk.edu at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+mcnutt=utk.edu at python.org] On Behalf Of
mailman-users-request at python.org
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:00 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 50, Issue 40

Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to
	mailman-users at python.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	mailman-users-request at python.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	mailman-users-owner at python.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of Mailman-Users digest..."

From dnewman at networktest.com  Tue Apr 22 00:15:23 2008
From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:15:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10 has been released
In-Reply-To: <480CEFE9.5000008@msapiro.net>
References: <47D9E26E.4040708@msapiro.net>
	<47F7B288.6020801@msapiro.net>	<4803DF19.3030406@msapiro.net>
	<480CEFE9.5000008@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <480D11FB.2070500@networktest.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I am happy to announce the release of Mailman 2.1.10.

Congratulations!

I presume the usual upgrade instructions apply?

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.014.htp

dn


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 22 00:10:35 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:10:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding a Particular Outbound Message
In-Reply-To: <0913EC48F2B05C4FBE4878BAFCABBFEC01FF1BA3@KFSVS2.utk.tennessee.edu>
References: <0913EC48F2B05C4FBE4878BAFCABBFEC01FF1BA3@KFSVS2.utk.tennessee.edu>
Message-ID: <480D10DB.5020203@shub-internet.org>

McNutt Jr, William R wrote:

> Mailmain is currently not sending traffic.  But that's okay at the
> moment.  One of my users wants to cancel a message she's sent.  Normally
> I couldn't do this, because traffic goes out too fast for me to catch
> it.
> 
> But since right now nothing's moving, I told her I'd try before I
> re-started mailman.  Where would I look to find an outgoing message?

Depending on where your version of Mailman is installed, that would be in 
${MAILMANHOME}/qfiles/out/.  Otherwise, it has already been handed off to 
the MTA.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 22 00:24:38 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:24:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10 has been released
In-Reply-To: <480CEFE9.5000008@msapiro.net>
References: <47D9E26E.4040708@msapiro.net>
	<47F7B288.6020801@msapiro.net>	<4803DF19.3030406@msapiro.net>
	<480CEFE9.5000008@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <480D1426.1040000@shub-internet.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I am happy to announce the release of Mailman 2.1.10.
> 
> This is a security and bug fix release and it is highly recommended
> that all sites upgrade to this version. Mailman 2.1.10 also adds support
> for three new language translations, Galician, Hebrew and Slovak and a
> few new features.

Remind me next time that we *MUST* upgrade to the betas and RCs on 
python.org once you've made them available.  The changes made to the code 
which supports skipping unparseable messages means that mmdsr has to be 
changed to suit, otherwise you could wind up with a daily report that is 
800MB in size, depending on how many "unparseable messages" you might have.

We'll need to coordinate the updates to mmdsr and get the official version 
with all code contributions from all parties out there on the SourceForge page.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 22 00:26:46 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:26:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10 has been released
In-Reply-To: <480D11FB.2070500@networktest.com>
References: <47D9E26E.4040708@msapiro.net>	<47F7B288.6020801@msapiro.net>	<4803DF19.3030406@msapiro.net>	<480CEFE9.5000008@msapiro.net>
	<480D11FB.2070500@networktest.com>
Message-ID: <480D14A6.3000503@shub-internet.org>

David Newman wrote:

> I presume the usual upgrade instructions apply?
> 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.014.htp

For upgrading python.org, I made the mistake of leaving Mailman running even 
though I had shut down postfix and apache, and it still worked okay.  I'd 
recommend shutting down the web interface first, then Mailman, and then 
finally the MTA.

Then do the upgrade, and restart them in reverse order.

Then watch your log files like a hawk, and test out all your standard 
"stupid user tricks" to see if anything obvious has been broken.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 22 00:28:17 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:28:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding a Particular Outbound Message
In-Reply-To: <480D10DB.5020203@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008042115281705625a3befc3@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>McNutt Jr, William R wrote:
>
>> Mailmain is currently not sending traffic.  But that's okay at the
>> moment.  One of my users wants to cancel a message she's sent.  Normally
>> I couldn't do this, because traffic goes out too fast for me to catch
>> it.
>> 
>> But since right now nothing's moving, I told her I'd try before I
>> re-started mailman.  Where would I look to find an outgoing message?
>
>Depending on where your version of Mailman is installed, that would be in 
>${MAILMANHOME}/qfiles/out/.  Otherwise, it has already been handed off to 
>the MTA.


Or, depending on what part of Mailman's processing isn't running, it
might be in qfiles/in/. You can use bin/show_qfiles to list the
contents of the queue entries.

Note if the Mailman problem is OutgoingRunner and the message is in
qfiles/out/, it may already have been archived.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at list.org  Tue Apr 22 00:31:41 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:31:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.10 has been
	released
In-Reply-To: <480CEFE9.5000008@msapiro.net>
References: <47D9E26E.4040708@msapiro.net> <47F7B288.6020801@msapiro.net>
	<4803DF19.3030406@msapiro.net> <480CEFE9.5000008@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4AD99A70-A16F-4E0B-8F06-D1F00FAD3257@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Apr 21, 2008, at 3:50 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I am happy to announce the release of Mailman 2.1.10.

Congratulations Mark!  Long live Mailman 2.2. :)

I will update the web sites.

- -Barry

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From barry at list.org  Tue Apr 22 00:33:17 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:33:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10 has been released
In-Reply-To: <480D06F0.5020009@shub-internet.org>
References: <47D9E26E.4040708@msapiro.net>
	<47F7B288.6020801@msapiro.net>	<4803DF19.3030406@msapiro.net>
	<480CEFE9.5000008@msapiro.net> <480D06F0.5020009@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <AD4DE780-E3CE-4311-ABA0-06FAF90A106C@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Apr 21, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> I am happy to announce the release of Mailman 2.1.10.
>
> Now running on mail.python.org.  Please let us know if there are any  
> problems.

Wow, awesome Brad.  Thanks!

- -Barry

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From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 22 01:19:24 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:19:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10 has been released
In-Reply-To: <480D1426.1040000@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804211619240015a9a406a7@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>Remind me next time that we *MUST* upgrade to the betas and RCs on 
>python.org once you've made them available.  The changes made to the code 
>which supports skipping unparseable messages means that mmdsr has to be 
>changed to suit, otherwise you could wind up with a daily report that is 
>800MB in size, depending on how many "unparseable messages" you might have.
>
>We'll need to coordinate the updates to mmdsr and get the official version 
>with all code contributions from all parties out there on the SourceForge page.


OK, I'll try to remember.

FYI, I've been running all the 2.1.10 beta and rc releases and mmdsr
and haven't seen an issue, but I think in my case Postgrey/MailScanner
must be getting rid of all the unparseable messages before they reach
Mailman.

Note that in addition to the logging change for unparseable messages,
they will now be saved in the shunt queue, so if you have a lot,
you'll have to deal with that too.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 22 01:46:01 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:46:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10 has been released
In-Reply-To: <480D11FB.2070500@networktest.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804211646010953b6f94c3a@msapiro>

David Newman wrote:
>
>I presume the usual upgrade instructions apply?
>
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.014.htp


Those are really somewhat outdated. I probably should have just
replaced them, but I created a new FAQ
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.080.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 22 02:52:22 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:52:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10 has been released
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200804211619240015a9a406a7@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200804211619240015a9a406a7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <480D36C6.20209@shub-internet.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Note that in addition to the logging change for unparseable messages,
> they will now be saved in the shunt queue, so if you have a lot,
> you'll have to deal with that too.

These are the *.psv files?  Yeah, we've got almost 8000 of them on 
python.org.  Do you have any documentation on what should be done with them?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 22 03:30:40 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:30:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10 has been released
In-Reply-To: <480D36C6.20209@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804211830400093f07b6ee5@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Note that in addition to the logging change for unparseable messages,
>> they will now be saved in the shunt queue, so if you have a lot,
>> you'll have to deal with that too.
>
>These are the *.psv files?  Yeah, we've got almost 8000 of them on 
>python.org.  Do you have any documentation on what should be done with them?


Wow! I never thought there would be anything like this.

Here's the situation. Pre 2.1.9, when Mailman dequeued an incoming
message and then the Python email library couldn't parse the MIME
structure  the message was just lost. There wasn't anything that could
be done other than log the fact. This is not a big deal as the
message's MIME structure was defective and the message was almost
certainly spam.

Beginning in 2.1.9, we implemented the .bak files to back up an in
process message so the message could be recovered if something died
horribly (e.g. power failure) while it was in process. Nothing was
done at that time about the unparseable messages.

I then realized that the unparseable message had an intact .bak file in
the queue, so for 2.1.10, I decided to preserve this file (thus the
.psv in the shunt queue) in case some human wanted to look at it with
bin/dumpdb or whatever. Obviously, if you get 8000+ in a few hours, no
one is going to look at them all or even much of a sample.

You could set up a cron to run every hour or some other interval to
efectively do

  rm $var_prefix/qfiles/shunt/*.psv

The problem with that is there can occasionally be queue entries
preserved for other conditions which are hopefully much rarer, but you
might actually want to look at those.

I think the best solution is to turn off the preservation of
unparseable messages, and add an mm_cfg.py setting to turn it on. I
can work up a patch.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 22 04:40:33 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:40:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10 has been released
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200804211830400093f07b6ee5@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200804211830400093f07b6ee5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <480D5021.10405@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Mark Sapiro wrote:
|
| I think the best solution is to turn off the preservation of
| unparseable messages, and add an mm_cfg.py setting to turn it on. I
| can work up a patch.
|


A patch is attached. It doesn't turn off preservation by default because
it piggybacks on an existing Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py setting which was
lately used only by bin/update. The Defaults.py setting is

QRUNNER_SAVE_BAD_MESSAGES = Yes

Setting

QRUNNER_SAVE_BAD_MESSAGES = No

in mm_cfg.py will stop preserving the unparseable messages, but certain
other problem qfiles will still be preserved. Additionally, preserved
files will be stored in qfiles/bad and not qfiles/shunt. Finally, if
QRUNNER_SAVE_BAD_MESSAGES = No, the log message will revert to the old
"Ignoring unparseable message:".

Brad,

If you could apply this patch (you can apply it directly to the
installation directory, by e.g.

cd /usr/local/mailman
patch -p0 < path/to/2.1.10.patch.txt

and set

QRUNNER_SAVE_BAD_MESSAGES = No

in mm_cfg.py and restart Mailman, things should be back more or less the
way they were in 2.1.9.

I have applied the patch to my installation and I'm sure it's good, but
I haven't seen any unparseable messages.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From barry at list.org  Tue Apr 22 04:50:02 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 22:50:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.10 has been
	released
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200804211830400093f07b6ee5@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200804211830400093f07b6ee5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42F93661-9DB1-4021-B29D-6863712F6203@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Apr 21, 2008, at 9:30 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> You could set up a cron to run every hour or some other interval to
> efectively do
>
>  rm $var_prefix/qfiles/shunt/*.psv
>
> The problem with that is there can occasionally be queue entries
> preserved for other conditions which are hopefully much rarer, but you
> might actually want to look at those.
>
> I think the best solution is to turn off the preservation of
> unparseable messages, and add an mm_cfg.py setting to turn it on. I
> can work up a patch.

We should probably have some kind of shunt queue culler cron script in  
place, either that archives and deletes those files, or just expires  
them after a certain amount of time.  What to people generally do with  
their shunt files?

- -Barry

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From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 22 06:18:06 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:18:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.10 has been
 released
In-Reply-To: <42F93661-9DB1-4021-B29D-6863712F6203@list.org>
References: <PC1760200804211830400093f07b6ee5@msapiro>
	<42F93661-9DB1-4021-B29D-6863712F6203@list.org>
Message-ID: <p06240800c4331722669c@[192.168.1.199]>

On 4/21/08, Barry Warsaw wrote:

>  We should probably have some kind of shunt queue culler cron script in
>  place, either that archives and deletes those files, or just expires
>  them after a certain amount of time.

That's easy enough to do with cron and find.  You tell me what you 
want, and I'll be glad to set that up.

>                                        What to people generally do with
>  their shunt files?

Leave them untouched for months or years?  ;-)

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 22 06:31:32 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:31:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10 has been released
In-Reply-To: <480D5021.10405@msapiro.net>
References: <PC1760200804211830400093f07b6ee5@msapiro>
	<480D5021.10405@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <p06240803c4331a381fd7@[192.168.1.199]>

On 4/21/08, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  If you could apply this patch (you can apply it directly to the
>  installation directory, by e.g.
>
>  cd /usr/local/mailman
>  patch -p0 < path/to/2.1.10.patch.txt

Patch applied fine, no complaints.

>  and set
>
>  QRUNNER_SAVE_BAD_MESSAGES = No

Done.

>  in mm_cfg.py and restart Mailman, things should be back more or less the
>  way they were in 2.1.9.
>
>  I have applied the patch to my installation and I'm sure it's good, but
>  I haven't seen any unparseable messages.

I haven't seen any more unparseable messages in the last few minutes, 
but let's see how things go.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 22 07:36:39 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 00:36:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10 has been released
In-Reply-To: <p06240803c4331a381fd7@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <PC1760200804211830400093f07b6ee5@msapiro>
	<480D5021.10405@msapiro.net> <p06240803c4331a381fd7@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <p06240801c43327172405@[192.168.1.199]>

On 4/21/08, Brad Knowles wrote:

>>   I have applied the patch to my installation and I'm sure it's good, but
>>   I haven't seen any unparseable messages.
>
>  I haven't seen any more unparseable messages in the last few minutes,
>  but let's see how things go.

We've now had a couple of unparseable messages since applying the 
patch, and it seems to be working as expected.


Going back to Jun 12 23:48:51 2007, it looks like we've had a total 
of about 378,989 unparseable messages, although we only have just 
over 8000 messages in the mailman/qfiles/shunt and 
mailman/qfiles/shunt.old directories (7759 .psv files, and 312 .pck 
files).

That works out to about 37,900 unparseable messages per month, or 
something like about 125 unparseable messages per day.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From kkchn.cdac at gmail.com  Tue Apr 22 08:58:29 2008
From: kkchn.cdac at gmail.com (kk CHN)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 12:28:29 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman error file grows & disk going out of space
Message-ID: <5e4d7fb90804212358i3cc45d7eo4907a61b35a28d6a@mail.gmail.com>

People :

  I am facing a problem recently with ( my mailman -2.1.9  which runs
fine for a long term ) , last week my ~/mailman/logs/error  file
growing to GBs in size (5GB) then my server box goes out of disk space
 /usr  full.


/mailman/logs/error says the follows      ,  how can I fix this  ?
did anyone face this earlier ? please give me  your valuable  comments
  to fix this .


# tail -50  error
    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 246, in _parsebody
    raise Errors.BoundaryError(
BoundaryError: multipart message with no defined boundary

Apr 22 11:51:35 2008 (35739) Ignoring unparseable message:
1186840687.951453+8a33be62beafbb6e10e55ebae32cfa03ed596313
Apr 22 11:51:35 2008 (35739) Uncaught runner exception: multipart
message with no defined boundary
Apr 22 11:51:35 2008 (35739) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 164, in dequeue
    msg = email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py", line 51, in
message_from_string
    return Parser(_class, strict=strict).parsestr(s)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 246, in _parsebody
    raise Errors.BoundaryError(
BoundaryError: multipart message with no defined boundary

Apr 22 11:51:35 2008 (35739) Ignoring unparseable message:
1186840687.951453+8a33be62beafbb6e10e55ebae32cfa03ed596313
Apr 22 11:51:35 2008 (35739) Uncaught runner exception: multipart
message with no defined boundary
Apr 22 11:51:35 2008 (35739) Traceback (most recent call last):




I tried to find where this message
# find  / -name  1186840687.951453+8a33be62beafbb6e10e55ebae32cfa03ed596313

but no result ,


please help me with your experience .

Thanks in advance
dhanesh

From jim-ml at themiditrombone.net  Tue Apr 22 13:36:58 2008
From: jim-ml at themiditrombone.net (Jim Hale)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 06:36:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SME Server Contrib?
Message-ID: <004c01c8a46d$2d1cc5b0$87565110$@net>

Does anyone know if an SME Server (7.3) Contrib has been created yet for
2.1.10?

Thanks! :)


Jim Hale
The MIDI Trombone BBS - http://bbs.themiditrombone.net
Fantastic Adventures Online BBS - http://bbs.fantasticadventuresonline.net




From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 22 15:42:04 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 06:42:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman error file grows & disk going out of
	space
In-Reply-To: <5e4d7fb90804212358i3cc45d7eo4907a61b35a28d6a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080422064204067125e15063@msapiro>

kk CHN wrote:
>
>/mailman/logs/error says the follows      ,  how can I fix this  ?
>did anyone face this earlier ? please give me  your valuable  comments
>  to fix this .
>
>
># tail -50  error
>    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 246, in _parsebody
>    raise Errors.BoundaryError(
>BoundaryError: multipart message with no defined boundary
>
>Apr 22 11:51:35 2008 (35739) Ignoring unparseable message:
>1186840687.951453+8a33be62beafbb6e10e55ebae32cfa03ed596313
>Apr 22 11:51:35 2008 (35739) Uncaught runner exception: multipart
>message with no defined boundary
>Apr 22 11:51:35 2008 (35739) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
>    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 164, in dequeue
>    msg = email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py", line 51, in
>message_from_string
>    return Parser(_class, strict=strict).parsestr(s)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
>    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
>    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 246, in _parsebody
>    raise Errors.BoundaryError(
>BoundaryError: multipart message with no defined boundary
>
>Apr 22 11:51:35 2008 (35739) Ignoring unparseable message:
>1186840687.951453+8a33be62beafbb6e10e55ebae32cfa03ed596313
>Apr 22 11:51:35 2008 (35739) Uncaught runner exception: multipart
>message with no defined boundary
>Apr 22 11:51:35 2008 (35739) Traceback (most recent call last):
>
>
>
>
>I tried to find where this message
># find  / -name  1186840687.951453+8a33be62beafbb6e10e55ebae32cfa03ed596313
>
>but no result ,


In 2.1.9, the file you are looking for is
qfiles/in/1186840687.951453+8a33be62beafbb6e10e55ebae32cfa03ed596313.bak.
Each one of these errors is caused by a separate message being
received. This may be just a flood of malformed spam at your site or
some kind of DOS attack. I expect you have many .bak files in
qfiles/in/, one for each of these messages.

Note in general, log messages about queue entries don't contian the
extension, so you need 

# find  / -name 
1186840687.951453+8a33be62beafbb6e10e55ebae32cfa03ed596313\*

Actually, leaving these .bak files in the queue was an error in 2.1.9.
In Mailman 2.1.10, this was changed to preserve the queue entry that
contained the unparseable message in the shunt queue with a .psv
extension.

In any case, examining these qfiles/in/*.bak files with 'bin/dumpdb -p'
will tell you where the messages are coming from.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 22 15:52:23 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 06:52:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10 has been released
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c43327172405@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <PC176020080422065223079647453653@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>On 4/21/08, Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>>>   I have applied the patch to my installation and I'm sure it's good, but
>>>   I haven't seen any unparseable messages.
>>
>>  I haven't seen any more unparseable messages in the last few minutes,
>>  but let's see how things go.
>
>We've now had a couple of unparseable messages since applying the 
>patch, and it seems to be working as expected.
>
>
>Going back to Jun 12 23:48:51 2007, it looks like we've had a total 
>of about 378,989 unparseable messages, although we only have just 
>over 8000 messages in the mailman/qfiles/shunt and 
>mailman/qfiles/shunt.old directories (7759 .psv files, and 312 .pck 
>files).
>
>That works out to about 37,900 unparseable messages per month, or 
>something like about 125 unparseable messages per day.


The light dawns! (thanks to the post at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-April/061365.html>).

There was an error in 2.1.9 that didn't delete (or move aside) the .bak
file in qfiles/in from an unparseable message. Thus, there were 7500+
unparseable message qfiles/in/*.bak files when you restarted mailman.
These were all 'recovered' and reprocessed, reproducing the
unparseable message error, and this time moved to qfiles/shunt/*.psv
(so it wouldn't happen again).

This explains why there were over 7500 of these at once, when the
normal rate is /only/ 125 per day.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 22 17:13:52 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:13:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Important Mailman 2.1.9 to 2.1.10 upgrade note.
Message-ID: <480E00B0.1010808@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Actually, this note really applies to just restarting mailman a Mailman
2.1.9 installation, with or without upgrading to Mailman 2.1.10. But in
installations that just 'run' without intervention, this restart may not
occur until an upgrade.

There is an error in Mailman 2.1.9. In the introduction of the backup
and recovery of queue entries, we neglected to remove the backup queue
entry for an unparseable message. Thus, if you sometimes receive
unparseable messages which are ignored, you may have an accumulation of
.bak files in qfiles/in from these messages. When you restart Mailman,
these will all be reprocessed, resulting in a flood of error log entries.

There is no real harm done, but it would be a good idea when upgrading
to stop Mailman and remove any qfiles/in/*.bak files.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 22 17:44:03 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:44:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10 has been released
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c43327172405@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <PC176020080422084403006298e57a61@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>Going back to Jun 12 23:48:51 2007, it looks like we've had a total 
>of about 378,989 unparseable messages, although we only have just 
>over 8000 messages in the mailman/qfiles/shunt and 
>mailman/qfiles/shunt.old directories (7759 .psv files, and 312 .pck 
>files).


There are two reasons why you've had 378,989 unparseable messages, but
only have 7759 .psv files.

First, some of the unparseable .bak files that 2.1.9 left behind in
qfiles/in may have been removed or moved aside.

Second, whenever Mailman was restarted, any qfiles/in/*.bak files would
have been reprocessed resulting in a flood of unparseable message
errors and leaving just one new .bak file per message. Thus a single
message and .bak file could have been responsible for several logged
unparseable message errors if Mailman had been restarted several times.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From guilherme.funchal at gmail.com  Tue Apr 22 19:23:28 2008
From: guilherme.funchal at gmail.com (Guilherme Funchal)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:23:28 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question...
Message-ID: <e368268e0804221023x148fa9fdxc81081de2bc508c6@mail.gmail.com>

Hi!
How to include 'from original message" into body message when list is set to
anonymous_list  ?



-- 
"Um homem de honra ? aquele que vive segundo as regras e, se for necess?rio,
morre por elas. "
==============================
Guilherme Funchal da Silva .`.
LPI Level 2 Certification

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Apr 22 20:23:42 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:23:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question...
In-Reply-To: <e368268e0804221023x148fa9fdxc81081de2bc508c6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804221123420953c8c97cc3@msapiro>

Guilherme Funchal wrote:

>How to include 'from original message" into body message when list is set to
>anonymous_list  ?


There is no setting or configuration to add the original From: to the
message body, and why would you set the list 'anonymous' in the first
place if you want to expose the original From:?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From administrador at cha.jovenclub.cu  Tue Apr 22 21:06:53 2008
From: administrador at cha.jovenclub.cu (Osmany Goderich)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:06:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Postfix LDAP
Message-ID: <007801c8a4ac$06ad25c0$14077140$@jovenclub.cu>

Greetings,

 

Can anyone please show me an example of a Mailman working with a Postfix
system that has virtual users in an LDAP database? What do I need to do? I
have tried everything I found on the internet but nothing worked so far. Can
anyone help me with this?

 

thanks


From carlos at timos.com  Wed Apr 23 00:05:47 2008
From: carlos at timos.com (Carlos Corredor)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:05:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multipart messages
Message-ID: <001001c8a4c5$04f77d20$6401a8c0@cclaptop>

Hello:
 
Please note that I am on a shared host that has a control panel (not
cPanel), so I have to work from the administration page, I do not have
access to the Python source code.
 
I would like to start using multipart messages, but have not been able to
find how to do it in looking through the FAQs and the help docs. Could
someone point me to the right place?
 
Salud,
 
Carlos

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Apr 23 00:25:26 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:25:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Postfix LDAP
In-Reply-To: <007801c8a4ac$06ad25c0$14077140$@jovenclub.cu>
References: <007801c8a4ac$06ad25c0$14077140$@jovenclub.cu>
Message-ID: <480E65D6.3060005@shub-internet.org>

Osmany Goderich wrote:

> Can anyone please show me an example of a Mailman working with a Postfix 
> system that has virtual users in an LDAP database? What do I need to do?
> I have tried everything I found on the internet but nothing worked so
> far. Can anyone help me with this?

Well, the normal method of implementing Mailman doesn't have anything at all 
to do with virtual users, so I don't see how that part of your postfix 
system would make any difference here.


Now, if you wanted to implement the Mailman mailing lists through the 
LDAP-based virtual user system, that would be a different matter.  You'd 
need to find some way to get the various Mailman aliases to be 
programatically imported into the LDAP database, so that when postfix 
searched LDAP for listname-owner (or whatever), it would end up being 
pointed at the appropriate resource.

The other part of this problem is whether or not a virtual user can include 
a pipe to a local program or not, because all of the Mailman aliases would 
include pipes to a local program with certain command-line options.

I'm not sure we can help you with either of these parts of the problem. 
These are issues with how postfix interacts with LDAP and whether or not 
virtual users in postfix can include pipes to local programs.


There is an unsupported MySQL member adapter for Mailman, but the front end 
interface to Mailman would still be done through local aliases piped to a 
local program with certain specific command-line options.

If you wanted an LDAP-based member adapter, you'd need to develop that 
yourself, or find someone to work with you to develop that.


My understanding is that Mailman3 will include much more robust interfaces 
to various back-end databases, which I believe may also include LDAP, but 
there is currently no projected timeline for when Mailman3 will ship.

There has finally been an announcement of a pre-alpha development-only 
version of Mailman3 that is available, but if you're not willing and able to 
be a Python systems developer who can work on that code, then that doesn't 
really help you today.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 23 00:35:58 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:35:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multipart messages
In-Reply-To: <001001c8a4c5$04f77d20$6401a8c0@cclaptop>
Message-ID: <PC176020080422153558006276e3bdd8@msapiro>

Carlos Corredor wrote:
> 
>I would like to start using multipart messages, but have not been able to
>find how to do it in looking through the FAQs and the help docs. Could
>someone point me to the right place?


I'm not sure what you are asking or trying to do, but if you set
filter_content to No on the Content filtering page, Mailman should
send out what it receives.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 23 01:59:02 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:59:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multipart messages
In-Reply-To: <000001c8a4d0$6b16d370$6401a8c0@cclaptop>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804221659020125df66969f@msapiro>

Carlos Corredor wrote:

>What I would like to do is send messages that will be read and displayed as
>HTML when the recipient's mail client is set up to receive HTML messages, or
>be read and displayed as text messages when not. 


What you want to send and have Mailman pass is a multipart/alternative
message with a text/plain part and a text/html part.

To set Mailman's content filtering to accept and deliver this, you need
at least

multipart/alternative
text/plain part
text/html

in pass_mime_types, and you need to set collapse_alternatives to No and
convert_html_to_plaintext to No.
	

>But I also need to find out how to create such messages. I could not find a
>tutorial on how to do this.


This depends on your MUA. You appear to be using "Microsoft Office
Outlook 11". I really have no idea how to configure MS Outlook, but as
a guess, there is certainly some setting to compose a message as HTML,
and it is likely that if you compose an HTML message, it will be sent
as multipart/alternative.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Apr 23 06:22:04 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 23:22:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SME Server Contrib?
In-Reply-To: <004c01c8a46d$2d1cc5b0$87565110$@net>
References: <004c01c8a46d$2d1cc5b0$87565110$@net>
Message-ID: <p06240800c43469d7c9dd@[192.168.1.199]>

On 4/22/08, Jim Hale wrote:

>  Does anyone know if an SME Server (7.3) Contrib has been created yet for
>  2.1.10?

Sorry, what's an "SME Server Contrib"?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From zszalbot at gmail.com  Wed Apr 23 14:25:12 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:25:12 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10 and FreeBSD port
Message-ID: <01cf72860ae086de37077e4fc1d1846b@localhost>


Hello,

Does anyone know when the latest version of Mailman will end up as a
FreeBSD port? Thanks!

Zbigniew Szalbot


From drtaber at northcarolina.edu  Wed Apr 23 14:17:55 2008
From: drtaber at northcarolina.edu (Douglas R Taber)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 08:17:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SME Server Contrib?
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c43469d7c9dd@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <004c01c8a46d$2d1cc5b0$87565110$@net>
	<p06240800c43469d7c9dd@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <1AC01EB962C0E045ABAAD9B53BD6D7EC2470E152@mail-gahub.ad.northcarolina.edu>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+drtaber=northcarolina.edu at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+drtaber=northcarolina.edu at python.org] On
> Behalf Of Brad Knowles
> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 12:22 AM
> To: Jim Hale; Mailing List - Mailman
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] SME Server Contrib?
>
> On 4/22/08, Jim Hale wrote:
>
> >  Does anyone know if an SME Server (7.3) Contrib has been created yet
> for
> >  2.1.10?
>
> Sorry, what's an "SME Server Contrib"?
>
> --
> Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org


SME was (last I knew) an open-source all-in-one office server distro based on red hat. It does directory services, firewall, email, file and print sharing, etc. Presumably a contrib. is the package they use? It is based on red hat, so it is probably some sort of RPM.

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 23 17:12:47 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 08:12:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10 has been released
In-Reply-To: <480CEFE9.5000008@msapiro.net>
References: <47D9E26E.4040708@msapiro.net> <47F7B288.6020801@msapiro.net>
	<4803DF19.3030406@msapiro.net> <480CEFE9.5000008@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <480F51EF.6040702@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Mark Sapiro wrote:
| I am happy to announce the release of Mailman 2.1.10.


I have discovered a few problems with the release. None is a major show
stopper, but the most significant so far is that I broke cmd_subscribe
so that email subscribe to the -subscribe or -join address or the
- -request address with a bare 'subscribe' command results in the message
being shunted. A patch for this is attached, but I plan to make a patch
release probably next week.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Apr 23 17:37:45 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:37:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10 and FreeBSD port
In-Reply-To: <01cf72860ae086de37077e4fc1d1846b@localhost>
References: <01cf72860ae086de37077e4fc1d1846b@localhost>
Message-ID: <480F57C9.8080109@shub-internet.org>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:

> Does anyone know when the latest version of Mailman will end up as a
> FreeBSD port? Thanks!

Ask the FreeBSD port maintainer.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Wed Apr 23 17:09:36 2008
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:09:36 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages remain in spool/mailman/in
Message-ID: <01BD956ED7FDAFDC036B2D09@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>

Hi,

I just noticed a problem with our 2.1.9 installation. One of my colleagues 
complained that mails didn't go through to one of his lists. When I checked 
the logs, I found that sendmail handed the messages off to Mailman (some 
info redacted):

2008-04-23T15:14:23+02:00 lvr13.rrz.uni-koeln.de sendmail[21253]: 
m3NDEM3A021253: from=<yyy at uni-koeln.de>, size=5059, class=0, nrcpts=1, 
msgid=<1208956450.988675.155922491.2908.2 at otrs.rrz.uni-koeln.de>, 
proto=ESMTP, daemon=Daemon0, relay=cherub.rrz.uni-koeln.de [134.95.19.133]
2008-04-23T15:14:23+02:00 lvr13.rrz.uni-koeln.de sendmail[21271]: 
m3NDEM3A021253: to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post xxx", 
ctladdr=<xxx at uni-koeln.de> (8/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, 
mailer=prog, pri=35271, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

But there was no trace in any of Mailman's logs. On a hunch I checked the 
spool directory and noticed that there are 1,390 files in the "in" 
directory, starting at 2 pm today. I also found the message in question 
based on its time stamp. Some mail still goes through Mailman, but some 
apparently doesn't. All runners seem to be running, so I'm at a loss to 
explain this behavior.

Any ideas?

Update: I just noticed that the number of messages in "in" is decreasing. 
Could it be that something just overwhelmed Mailman so that now there is a 
backlog that's slowly being worked through? I don't think we ever had such 
issues prior to today.

Cheers, Sebastian
-- 
     .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Geb?ude 52), Zimmer 18.:.
Zentrum f?r angewandte Informatik - Universit?tsweiter Service RRZK
.:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ? +49-221-478-5587.:.
                   .:.:.:.Skype: shagedorn.:.:.:.
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From jim-ml at themiditrombone.net  Thu Apr 24 02:44:53 2008
From: jim-ml at themiditrombone.net (Jim Hale)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:44:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SME Server Contrib?
In-Reply-To: <1AC01EB962C0E045ABAAD9B53BD6D7EC2470E152@mail-gahub.ad.northcarolina.edu>
References: <004c01c8a46d$2d1cc5b0$87565110$@net>	<p06240800c43469d7c9dd@[192.168.1.199]>
	<1AC01EB962C0E045ABAAD9B53BD6D7EC2470E152@mail-gahub.ad.northcarolina.edu>
Message-ID: <001801c8a5a4$69a63920$3cf2ab60$@net>

Sorry - I figured everyone knew what the SME Server was. :)

Home page is http://www.contribs.org and yes, it's an open source, free,
all-in-one package that I've used for several years to run my sites. Only
problem is that it's harder to install 'other' software (Mailman for
example) and the folks that create the contribs (add-ons) have already done
the programming to make it work with the server.

Jim Hale
The MIDI Trombone BBS - http://bbs.themiditrombone.net
Fantastic Adventures Online BBS - http://bbs.fantasticadventuresonline.net

>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: mailman-users-bounces+jim-ml=themiditrombone.net at python.org
>>[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+jim-ml=themiditrombone.net at python.org] On
>>Behalf Of Douglas R Taber
>>Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 7:18 AM
>>To: Mailing List - Mailman
>>Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] SME Server Contrib?
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mailman-users-bounces+drtaber=northcarolina.edu at python.org
>>> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+drtaber=northcarolina.edu at python.org]
>>On
>>> Behalf Of Brad Knowles
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 12:22 AM
>>> To: Jim Hale; Mailing List - Mailman
>>> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] SME Server Contrib?
>>>
>>> On 4/22/08, Jim Hale wrote:
>>>
>>> >  Does anyone know if an SME Server (7.3) Contrib has been created
>>yet
>>> for
>>> >  2.1.10?
>>>
>>> Sorry, what's an "SME Server Contrib"?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
>>> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>>
>>
>>SME was (last I knew) an open-source all-in-one office server distro
>>based on red hat. It does directory services, firewall, email, file and
>>print sharing, etc. Presumably a contrib. is the package they use? It
>>is based on red hat, so it is probably some sort of RPM.
>>------------------------------------------------------
>>Mailman-Users mailing list
>>Mailman-Users at python.org
>>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-
>>users%40python.org/
>>Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jim-
>>ml%40themiditrombone.net
>>
>>Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-
>>mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp




From lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl  Thu Apr 24 16:14:15 2008
From: lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl (lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:14:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to make a list read-only ?
Message-ID: <20080424141709.15ED82038A5@duinheks.nl>

Hallo mailman-users,

I believe I saw this question before, but I couldn't find it any
more.
I'd like to configure a list so that only a few users may post
to it. In other words, make it a news letter.
How can I achieve this?

Groeten,

           Hans.

jdh punt beekhuizen bij duinheks punt nl

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5/080305
 * Origin: The Wizard is using MBSE/Linux (2:280/1018)

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 24 16:17:10 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 07:17:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages remain in spool/mailman/in
In-Reply-To: <F085C569E06FB51D379B3398@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
References: <PC1760200804231828440718250232da@msapiro>
	<F085C569E06FB51D379B3398@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
Message-ID: <48109666.5030809@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:
|
| Ultrafunk Popcorn? That's one I'd never heard of until today! I just saw
| that it isn't actively developed any more, otherwise I would've
| suggested a bug report: it doesn properly rfc2047-encode headers ...
| that's why "K?ln" appears as KXln in the Cc: field.


Yes. It has issues. Usually I deal with these manually, or if encodings
are a problem, I just use Thunderbird, but I was clearly rushing too
much yesterday morning, as that wasn't the only thing I didn't do well.
Back when it was being actively maintained, I had a good relationship
with the developer, and he would fix things very responsively, but it's
a dead product now.

I'm replying on the list to the rest of your message, as I never meant
to take it off list in the first place. That was another result of rushing.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 24 16:38:14 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 07:38:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages remain in spool/mailman/in
In-Reply-To: <F085C569E06FB51D379B3398@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
References: <PC1760200804231828440718250232da@msapiro>
	<F085C569E06FB51D379B3398@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
Message-ID: <48109B56.80706@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:
|
| --On 23. April 2008 18:28:44 -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
|
|>> Update: I just noticed that the number of messages in "in" is
|>> decreasing.
|>> Could it be that something just overwhelmed Mailman so that now there is
|>> a backlog that's slowly being worked through? I don't think we ever had
|>> such issues prior to today.
|>
|> There are two possibilities. One is that your IncomingRunner is sliced
|
| It's not. I didn't even know that feature until just now. Perhaps I
| should look into that.
|
|> The other is that somehow you are working through a flood of messages,
|> or some problem (maybe locks - see
|> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.076.htp>)
|> is making IncomingRunner run slowly.
|
| Well, there were really some locking issues, see below.
|
|> A backlogged IncomingRunner is
|> rare. It's more usual to see a backlogged OutgoingRunner due to delays
|> in SMTP.
|>
|> Check all of Mailman's logs for any clues.
|
| Let's start with mmdsr:
|
| Hourly Summary of Posts


Note that the 'post' log which is the source of these data is written
when the message is sent, not when it arrives.


| -----------------------
| <snip>
|     126  11:00-11:59
|      97  12:00-12:59
|     121  13:00-13:59
|    1355  14:00-14:59
|     760  15:00-15:59
|     617  16:00-16:59
|    1293  17:00-17:59
|     207  18:00-18:59
| <snip>
|
| So starting around 2pm there was an unusually high number of posts. On
| other days there are never more than about 150 messages per hour. It
| turns out that one list by itself hat 3,518 posts yesterday. And that
| list had locking issues:
|
| Apr 23 16:28:35 2008 (13393) jura-pruefungsamt.lock lifetime has
| expired, breaking
| Apr 23 16:28:35 2008 (13393)   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line
| 278, in ?
| Apr 23 16:28:35 2008 (13393)     main()
| Apr 23 16:28:35 2008 (13393)   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line
| 238, in main
| Apr 23 16:28:35 2008 (13393)     qrunner.run()
| Apr 23 16:28:35 2008 (13393)   File
| "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
| Apr 23 16:28:35 2008 (13393)     filecnt = self._oneloop()
| Apr 23 16:28:35 2008 (13393)   File
| "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 113, in _oneloop
| Apr 23 16:28:35 2008 (13393)     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
| Apr 23 16:28:35 2008 (13393)   File
| "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 171, in _onefile
| Apr 23 16:28:35 2008 (13393)     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg,
| msgdata)
| Apr 23 16:28:35 2008 (13393)   File
| "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/VirginRunner.py", line 38, in _dispose
| Apr 23 16:28:35 2008 (13393)     return IncomingRunner._dispose(self,
| mlist, msg, msgdata)
| Apr 23 16:28:35 2008 (13393)   File
| "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 115, in _dispose
| Apr 23 16:28:35 2008 (13393) mlist.Lock(timeout=mm_cfg.LIST_LOCK_TIMEOUT)
| Apr 23 16:28:35 2008 (13393)   File
| "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 161, in Lock
| Apr 23 16:28:35 2008 (13393)     self.__lock.lock(timeout)
| Apr 23 16:28:35 2008 (13393)   File
| "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 306, in lock
| Apr 23 16:28:35 2008 (13393)     important=True)
| Apr 23 16:28:35 2008 (13393)   File
| "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 416, in __writelog
| Apr 23 16:28:35 2008 (13393)     traceback.print_stack(file=logf)
| Apr 23 16:51:54 2008 (13389) jura-pruefungsamt.lock unexpected
| linkcount: -1
| Apr 23 16:51:54 2008 (13389)   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line
| 278, in ?
| Apr 23 16:51:54 2008 (13389)     main()
| Apr 23 16:51:54 2008 (13389)   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line
| 238, in main
| Apr 23 16:51:54 2008 (13389)     qrunner.run()
| Apr 23 16:51:54 2008 (13389)   File
| "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
| Apr 23 16:51:54 2008 (13389)     filecnt = self._oneloop()
| Apr 23 16:51:54 2008 (13389)   File
| "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 113, in _oneloop
| Apr 23 16:51:54 2008 (13389)     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
| Apr 23 16:51:54 2008 (13389)   File
| "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 171, in _onefile
| Apr 23 16:51:54 2008 (13389)     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg,
| msgdata)
| Apr 23 16:51:54 2008 (13389)   File
| "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 115, in _dispose
| Apr 23 16:51:54 2008 (13389) mlist.Lock(timeout=mm_cfg.LIST_LOCK_TIMEOUT)
| Apr 23 16:51:54 2008 (13389)   File
| "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 161, in Lock
| Apr 23 16:51:54 2008 (13389)     self.__lock.lock(timeout)
| Apr 23 16:51:54 2008 (13389)   File
| "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 287, in lock
| Apr 23 16:51:54 2008 (13389)     self.__linkcount(), important=True)
| Apr 23 16:51:54 2008 (13389)   File
| "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 416, in __writelog
| Apr 23 16:51:54 2008 (13389)     traceback.print_stack(file=logf)
|
| It turns out that our law school department informed all their students
| of some news. They did so by sending separate mails to each student,
| each time Cc'ing themselves on their Mailman list ...


Ouch!


| I will talk to
| them about that, but still I'd like to know how to avoid such a
| situation. Would slices have helped here?


No. Slicing would make things worse by increasing lock contention. Since
all the posts were for one list, and since the list is locked by
IncomingRunner for the entire duration of it's processing of a message,
slicing wouldn't help. It normally helps by increasing parallelism, but
only if the load is across multiple lists so the the sliced runners
aren't blocking each other.

In this case, IncomingRunner was doing the best that could be done. I
see that VirginRunner was involved in the locking, so perhaps these
messages were being held and moderator notices were being generated.
Then perhaps a moderator went to the admindb interface, which can keep a
list locked for a long time if it is processing a large list of requests.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 24 16:40:00 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 07:40:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to make a list read-only ?
In-Reply-To: <20080424141709.15ED82038A5@duinheks.nl>
Message-ID: <PC176020080424074000043750002f75@msapiro>

lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl wrote:
>
>I believe I saw this question before, but I couldn't find it any
>more.
>I'd like to configure a list so that only a few users may post
>to it. In other words, make it a news letter.
>How can I achieve this?


This is desdribed at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr 24 17:31:58 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:31:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SME Server Contrib?
In-Reply-To: <004c01c8a46d$2d1cc5b0$87565110$@net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804240831580468e8c5706e@msapiro>

Jim Hale wrote:

>Does anyone know if an SME Server (7.3) Contrib has been created yet for
>2.1.10?


This question might better be directed to SME forums or mailing lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Thu Apr 24 17:47:47 2008
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:47:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages remain in spool/mailman/in
In-Reply-To: <48109B56.80706@msapiro.net>
References: <PC1760200804231828440718250232da@msapiro>
	<F085C569E06FB51D379B3398@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<48109B56.80706@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <455FD74B93C769CCAF8BD5C2@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>

--On 24. April 2008 07:38:14 -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> I'd like to know how to avoid such a
> situation. Would slices have helped here?
>
>
> No. Slicing would make things worse by increasing lock contention.

OK, thanks.

> Since
> all the posts were for one list, and since the list is locked by
> IncomingRunner for the entire duration of it's processing of a message,
> slicing wouldn't help. It normally helps by increasing parallelism, but
> only if the load is across multiple lists so the the sliced runners
> aren't blocking each other.

With only 2 to 3 messages per minute under normal conditions that doesn't 
seem to be necessary for us.

> In this case, IncomingRunner was doing the best that could be done. I
> see that VirginRunner was involved in the locking, so perhaps these
> messages were being held and moderator notices were being generated.
> Then perhaps a moderator went to the admindb interface, which can keep a
> list locked for a long time if it is processing a large list of requests.

Ah, I wasn't even aware of that. Anyway, they promised not do it like that 
anymore, so I guess we're fine. Thanks for your help!
-- 
     .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Geb?ude 52), Zimmer 18.:.
Zentrum f?r angewandte Informatik - Universit?tsweiter Service RRZK
.:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ? +49-221-478-5587.:.
                   .:.:.:.Skype: shagedorn.:.:.:.
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From b19141 at anl.gov  Thu Apr 24 18:52:08 2008
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:52:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unparseable message
Message-ID: <20080424165208.2B5CD1759E@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

I built an Ubuntu package for the patched Mailman 2.1.9, and when
I tried to install it this morning, there was an error message
stating that 

     The directory /var/lib/mailman/qfiles contains files.
     It needs to be empty for the upgrade work properly.

I looked at that directory, and I found a number of

     bounces/xxxxx.bak

files.  Per a reply posting on 12 Feb-2008 by Mark Sapiro
(Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce file questions)
I moved those files elsewhere (for further study).  Then I was able to
install the updated Mailman 2.1.9 package.  Mark wrote:

     Yes, it's safe to delete. It is the backup of the file that
     BounceRunner was processing when something happened, and
     BounceRunner never 'finished' processing the file.  There
     was a hole that allowed this to occur on an 'unparseable'
     (almost always spam) message in 2.1.9, no whenever you get
     the "Ignoring unparseable message" in the error log, the
     .bak file is left behind. This is fixed in 2.1.10n now in
     beta.

I looked at the logs and found an unparseable rejection message.
I am including it below.  I am not sure what the problem is, but I
believe that the 

     content-type: message/rfc822

attachment contains the beginning of the original MIME-encoded
posting, and Mailman is getting confused with this MIME-within-MIME.
Here is a message from the Mailman error log:

     Uncaught runner exception: No terminating boundary and no trailing
     empty line

Here is the traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 164, in dequeue 
    msg = email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py", line 51, in message_from_string
    return Parser(_class, strict=strict).parsestr(s)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 240, in _parsebody
    msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr 
    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 265, in _parsebody
    msg = self.parse(fp)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 206, in _parsebody
    raise Errors.BoundaryError(
BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no trailing empty line

Am I correct in my diagnosis?  And is this (i.e., the unparseability)
something that can be corrected?  Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994

----- Here is the unparseable rejection message. -----

>From MAILER-DAEMON  Mon Apr 21 07:03:34 2008
Return-Path: <>
Received: from mailrelay.anl.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1])
        by localhost.ctd.anl.gov (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BE2E5F0C03;
        Mon, 21 Apr 2008 07:03:34 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from mailgateway.anl.gov (mailgateway.anl.gov [130.202.101.28])
        by mailrelay2.anl.gov (Postfix) with ESMTP id 601025F0C02
        for <LISTNAME-bounces at lists.anl.gov>; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 07:03:34 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from localhost by mailgateway.anl.gov;
  21 Apr 2008 07:03:34 -0500
Date: 21 Apr 2008 07:03:34 -0500
To: LISTNAME-bounces at lists.anl.gov
From: "Mail Delivery System" <MAILER-DAEMON at mailgateway.anl.gov>
Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="orAt.4Is3ZceEe.1I4wvb.Aylgfr0"
Message-Id: <20080421120334.601025F0C02 at mailrelay.anl.gov>

--orAt.4Is3ZceEe.1I4wvb.Aylgfr0
content-type: text/plain;
    charset="gb2312"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The following message to <abcdefgh at anl.gov> was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'5.1.1 <abcdefgh at anl.gov>: Recipient a=
ddress rejected: User unknown in relay recipient table'
--orAt.4Is3ZceEe.1I4wvb.Aylgfr0
content-type: message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns; mailgateway.anl.gov

Final-Recipient: rfc822;abcdefgh at anl.gov
Action: failed
Status: 5.0.0 (permanent failure)
Remote-MTA: dns; [130.202.101.23]
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'5.1.1 <abcdefgh at anl.gov>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in relay recipient table' (delivery attempts: 0)

--orAt.4Is3ZceEe.1I4wvb.Aylgfr0
content-type: message/rfc822

Received: from cliff.mcs.anl.gov (HELO mcs.anl.gov) ([140.221.9.17])
  by mailgateway.anl.gov with ESMTP; 21 Apr 2008 07:03:34 -0500
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  by mailgateway.anl.gov with ESMTP; 21 Apr 2008 07:03:34 -0500
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C8A3A7.4B24E858--
--orAt.4Is3ZceEe.1I4wvb.Aylgfr0--


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 25 03:37:15 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:37:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unparseable message
In-Reply-To: <20080424165208.2B5CD1759E@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC17602008042418371508906b8ff8c9@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:
>
>     The directory /var/lib/mailman/qfiles contains files.
>     It needs to be empty for the upgrade work properly.
>
>I looked at that directory, and I found a number of
>
>     bounces/xxxxx.bak

<snip>

>I looked at the logs and found an unparseable rejection message.
>I am including it below.  I am not sure what the problem is, but I
>believe that the 
>
>     content-type: message/rfc822
>
>attachment contains the beginning of the original MIME-encoded
>posting, and Mailman is getting confused with this MIME-within-MIME.
>Here is a message from the Mailman error log:
>
>     Uncaught runner exception: No terminating boundary and no trailing
>     empty line

<snip>
>
>------_=_NextPart_001_01C8A3A7.4B24E858--
>--orAt.4Is3ZceEe.1I4wvb.Aylgfr0--


Mailman (actually the Python email package) doesn,t like the fact that
there is no intervening empty line between the terminating boundary of
the message/rfc822 part and the terminating boundary of the outer
message.

Quoting from section 5.1.1 of RFC 2045

  The boundary may be followed by zero or more characters of linear
  whitespace. It is then terminated by either another CRLF and the
  header fields for the next part, or by two CRLFs, in which case
  there are no header fields for the next part.

The real issue here is that the bounce message was attempted to be
processed and logged as unparseable when it was received on 21 April,
but due to an error in 2.1.9, the .bak file for the unparseable
message wasn't removed.

The current Python email package is more forgiving and in fact does
parse this message, but because of incompatibilities with older Python
versions which are still supported by Mailman, we ship our Mailman
package with an older email package.

The sending MTA has sent a DSN which is not RFC 2045 compliant in that
the terminating boundary of the embedded message/rfc822 part is not
followed by two CRLFs. We should be more forgiving, and the current
email package is, but the initial fault is with the MTA that created a
non-compliant message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl  Fri Apr 25 10:15:36 2008
From: lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl (lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:15:36 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to make a list read-only ?
Message-ID: <20080425081945.E73702038B2@duinheks.nl>

Hallo Mark and Joerg,

Op donderdag 24 april 2008 schreef Mark Sapiro aan
lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl:

 MS> This is desdribed at
 MS> www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>.

Many thanks to both of you.

Groeten,

           Hans.

jdh punt beekhuizen bij duinheks punt nl

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5/080305
 * Origin: The Wizard is using MBSE/Linux (2:280/1018)

From lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl  Fri Apr 25 10:17:54 2008
From: lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl (lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:17:54 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to import a list of members?
Message-ID: <20080425081945.F2BF420399E@duinheks.nl>

Hallo mailman-users,

Is it possible to import an ASCII list of members for a
mailing list?
If yes, how to do it?

Groeten,

           Hans.

jdh punt beekhuizen bij duinheks punt nl

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5/080305
 * Origin: The Wizard is using MBSE/Linux (2:280/1018)

From lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl  Fri Apr 25 10:47:12 2008
From: lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl (lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:47:12 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to import a list of members?
Message-ID: <20080425084904.E06802039A5@duinheks.nl>

Hallo Zbigniew,

Op vrijdag 25 april 2008 schreef Zbigniew Szalbot aan
lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl:

 >> Is it possible to import an ASCII list of members for a
 >> mailing list?
 ZS> Take a look at bin/add_members script
 ZS> Run it with --help to see what options there are

Lovely! That seems to de exactly what I want. Thank tou very
much for your help.

Groeten,

           Hans.

jdh punt beekhuizen bij duinheks punt nl

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5/080305
 * Origin: The Wizard is using MBSE/Linux (2:280/1018)

From michael_lynn at ml.com  Fri Apr 25 12:31:13 2008
From: michael_lynn at ml.com (Lynn, Michael (A&E))
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 06:31:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to import a list of members?
In-Reply-To: <20080425084904.E06802039A5@duinheks.nl>
Message-ID: <A31A6594B84121479A71D1195BBA088F06093E@mlnyc20mb054.amrs.win.ml.com>

Not sure if this will help anyone - but I had a requirement to enable
remote subscription from a command line.  I wrapped a call to cURL for
this.

--->8---
#!/bin/bash
# mlynn 03/28/2008
# Wrap a call to curl to enable subscription to a mailman list
#
VERSION="0.1"
MAILMANURL="http://lists.yourserver.com/mailman/subscribe"
PROGRAM=`basename $0`

function ERROR
# Spew the wrongness
{
        echo "Error: Code $1"
        echo "${2}?"
        exit $1
}

function SYNTAX
#
# Tell the people how you communicate
#
{
        echo "SYNTAX:"
        echo "$PROGRAM $VERSION"
        echo "  $PROGRAM [[email] [firstname] [lastname] [password]
[listname]]"
        echo "  This handy script will wrap a call to cURL for the
purpose of subscribing"
        echo "  a user to a mailman list.  If you fail to provide
optional arguments, you"
        echo "  will be prompted to enter them at the command line."
        echo "           "
}

function CHECKCURL
#
# Check for commands you depend upon
#
{
        CURL=`which curl`
        if [ $? -ne 0 ]; then
                ERROR 1 "the command curl is missing from the system"
        fi;

}

function GETARGS
#
# Get the arguments - duh.
#
{
        if [ "$1" = "-h" -o "$1" = "--h" ]; then
                SYNTAX
                exit 0
        fi
        if [ -z $1 ]; then
                {
                echo "Enter email for user to be subscribed: "
                read EMAIL
                if [ -z $EMAIL ]; then
                        ERROR 30 "You must enter a valid email address."
                fi
                }
        else
                EMAIL=$1
        fi
        if [ -z $2 ]; then
                {
                echo "Enter the first name of the person to be
subscribed: "
                read FIRSTNAME
                if [ -z $FIRSTNAME ]; then
                        ERROR 30 "You the first name of the subscibee."
                fi
                }
        else
                FIRSTNAME=$2
        fi
        if [ -z $3 ]; then
                {
                echo "Enter the last name of the person to be
subscribed: "
                read LASTNAME
                if [ -z $LASTNAME ]; then
                        ERROR 30 "You the last name of the subscibee."
                fi
                }
        else
                LASTNAME=$3
        fi
        if [ -z $4 ]; then
                {
                echo "Enter the list access password for this user: "
                read PW
                if [ -z $PW ]; then
                        ERROR 30 "You must enter a password for $EMAIL."
                fi
                }
        else
                PW=$4
        fi
        if [ -z $5 ]; then
                {
                echo "Enter the list name to subscribe $EMAIL to: "
                read LIST
                if [ -z $LIST ]; then
                        ERROR 30 "You must enter a valid listname."
                fi
                }
        else
                LIST=$5
        fi
}

function DOCURL
# Build the cURL call
{

        # urlencode the email '@'
        UEMAIL=`echo $EMAIL | sed "s/\@/\%40/g"`
        CMD="curl -s
$MAILMANURL/${LIST}?email=${UEMAIL}&fullname=$FIRSTNAME%20$LASTNAME&pw=$
PW&pw-conf=$PW&digest=0&email-button=Submit"
        OUT=`${CMD}`
        if `echo ${OUT} | grep -i "no such list"` ; then
                {
                        ERROR 30 "List $LIST not found.  Please check
and try again."
                }
        else
                {
                        echo "List subscription for the following user
appears to have worked."
                        echo "Email:     $EMAIL"
                        echo "Full Name: $FIRSTNAME $LASTNAME"
                        echo "The user should recieve an email
requesting confirmation for this subscription."
                        exit 0
                }
        fi

}


CHECKCURL
GETARGS $1 $2 $3 $4 $5
DOCURL
---8<----

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+michael_lynn=ml.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+michael_lynn=ml.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 4:47 AM
To: mailman-users
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] How to import a list of members?


Hallo Zbigniew,

Op vrijdag 25 april 2008 schreef Zbigniew Szalbot aan
lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl:

 >> Is it possible to import an ASCII list of members for a
 >> mailing list?
 ZS> Take a look at bin/add_members script
 ZS> Run it with --help to see what options there are

Lovely! That seems to de exactly what I want. Thank tou very
much for your help.

Groeten,

           Hans.

jdh punt beekhuizen bij duinheks punt nl

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5/080305
 * Origin: The Wizard is using MBSE/Linux (2:280/1018)
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/michael_lynn%40ml.c
om

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
--------------------------------------------------------

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From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Fri Apr 25 15:39:47 2008
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:39:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it OK to unshunt "bad" messages?
Message-ID: <9D75255B8BEC89A3944931BE@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>

Hi,

I just noticed a message in the "bad" directory. I looked at it with 
show_qfiles and it looked harmless. Probably it was broken WRT its MIME 
encoding, but it wasn't a virus or anything. On a whim I ran unshunt on the 
"bad" directory and the message was then delivered to the list.

Basically I'm curious why Mailman didn't consider the message "bad" that 
time around. Is unshunt-processing somehow different from normal processing?

Thank, Sebastian
-- 
     .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Geb?ude 52), Zimmer 18.:.
Zentrum f?r angewandte Informatik - Universit?tsweiter Service RRZK
.:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ? +49-221-478-5587.:.
                   .:.:.:.Skype: shagedorn.:.:.:.
-------------- next part --------------
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From b19141 at anl.gov  Fri Apr 25 16:01:48 2008
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:01:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "IOError reading list extension" Message
Message-ID: <20080425140148.78A831759E@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

I am running a home-built Mailman 2.1.9 Ubuntu package with the latest
security patch.  I see messages in the error log like this one:

     Apr 25 08:00:05 2008 (27326) IOError reading list extension:
       [Errno 20] Not a directory:
       '/var/lib/mailman/lists/append_description.newdescription/extend.py'

I do not see any

     extend.py

in the directory in which I build Mailman.  I see an archived posting

     http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg37089.html

that has a similar complaint from 16 Feb 2006, but the response from
Mark Sapiro to that posting does not seem to fit my situation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From gilmore.126 at osu.edu  Fri Apr 25 16:57:28 2008
From: gilmore.126 at osu.edu (Melinda Gilmore)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:57:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] checksums
Message-ID: <013701c8a6e4$aef909d0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu>

I trying to find out if mailman uses the md5 checksum or this has to be set
up with the installation.  Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.  I
have not been able to find it so far.  



From b19141 at anl.gov  Fri Apr 25 17:09:32 2008
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:09:32 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unparseable message
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net>'
	dated: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:37:15 -0700
Message-ID: <20080425150932.18D841759E@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

Mark Sapiro replied to one of my postings:

>Mailman (actually the Python email package) doesn,t like the fact that
>there is no intervening empty line between the terminating boundary of
>the message/rfc822 part and the terminating boundary of the outer
>message.
>
>Quoting from section 5.1.1 of RFC 2045
>
>  The boundary may be followed by zero or more characters of linear
>  whitespace. It is then terminated by either another CRLF and the
>  header fields for the next part, or by two CRLFs, in which case
>  there are no header fields for the next part.

For the record (i.e., anyone who looks in the archives), the RFC is
2046.  This DSN message is being generated by our Ironport anti-spam
appliance, so we will report this to Ironport.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 25 17:14:16 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 08:14:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "IOError reading list extension" Message
In-Reply-To: <20080425140148.78A831759E@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804250814160796ace98e4c@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:

>I am running a home-built Mailman 2.1.9 Ubuntu package with the latest
>security patch.  I see messages in the error log like this one:
>
>     Apr 25 08:00:05 2008 (27326) IOError reading list extension:
>       [Errno 20] Not a directory:
>       '/var/lib/mailman/lists/append_description.newdescription/extend.py'
>
>I do not see any
>
>     extend.py
>
>in the directory in which I build Mailman.


Is 'append_description.newdescription' the name of a list?

This error occurs when Mailman attempts to read (actually execute) the
optional extend.py module for a list during the instantiation of that
list, and it gets an error exception other than 'doesn't exist'.

>From the actual error, it seems that
/var/lib/mailman/lists/append_description.newdescription is not a
directory. Is it a file?

There should be nothing in /var/lib/mailman/lists/ except
subdirectories corresponding to lists, but Mailman shouldn't really
care.

It's hard to tell without more information, but it looks like this
comes from cron/checkdbs which trys to instantiate every list. It
should only be trying to instantiate lists whose names are the names
of subdirectories of /var/lib/mailman/lists/ and which subdirectories
in turn contain a config.pck file, but something might be wrong with
Mailman.Utils.list_names() (or Mailman.Site.get_listnames() or
Mailman.Utils.list_exists() called by list_names()) that causes it to
return the bogus name.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gilmore.126 at osu.edu  Fri Apr 25 16:57:28 2008
From: gilmore.126 at osu.edu (Melinda Gilmore)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:57:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] passwords
Message-ID: <012d01c8a6e4$ae8698f0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu>

Does mailman have restrictions for passwords.   Like a number or cap needs
in the passwords.  I am not finding anything on that.  I know in my
experience it just lets me put in anything for a password, wether it be for
owner or user?

Melinda Gilmore
Systems Engineer
The Ohio State University
Enterprise Messaging/OIT
614-292-4953


From greyphoenixproductions at gmail.com  Fri Apr 25 17:18:58 2008
From: greyphoenixproductions at gmail.com (Michael Kubler)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:48:58 +0930
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to import a list of members?
In-Reply-To: <A31A6594B84121479A71D1195BBA088F06093E@mlnyc20mb054.amrs.win.ml.com>
References: <A31A6594B84121479A71D1195BBA088F06093E@mlnyc20mb054.amrs.win.ml.com>
Message-ID: <4811F662.2080507@gmail.com>

Wow, that beats my lazy way of doing it, which is simply a cron job 
which uses the *add_members* function to import a list of email 
addresses from a text file, that I have a PHP script 
<http://www.syjmovie.com> saving the addresses to.

Michael Kubler
*G*rey *P*hoenix *P*roductions <http://www.greyphoenix.biz>



Lynn, Michael (A&E) wrote:
> Not sure if this will help anyone - but I had a requirement to enable
> remote subscription from a command line.  I wrapped a call to cURL for
> this.
>
> --->8---
> #!/bin/bash
> # mlynn 03/28/2008
> # Wrap a call to curl to enable subscription to a mailman list
> #
> VERSION="0.1"
> MAILMANURL="http://lists.yourserver.com/mailman/subscribe"
> PROGRAM=`basename $0`
>
> function ERROR
> # Spew the wrongness
> {
>         echo "Error: Code $1"
>         echo "${2}?"
>         exit $1
> }
>
> function SYNTAX
> #
> # Tell the people how you communicate
> #
> {
>         echo "SYNTAX:"
>         echo "$PROGRAM $VERSION"
>         echo "  $PROGRAM [[email] [firstname] [lastname] [password]
> [listname]]"
>         echo "  This handy script will wrap a call to cURL for the
> purpose of subscribing"
>         echo "  a user to a mailman list.  If you fail to provide
> optional arguments, you"
>         echo "  will be prompted to enter them at the command line."
>         echo "           "
> }
>
> function CHECKCURL
> #
> # Check for commands you depend upon
> #
> {
>         CURL=`which curl`
>         if [ $? -ne 0 ]; then
>                 ERROR 1 "the command curl is missing from the system"
>         fi;
>
> }
>
> function GETARGS
> #
> # Get the arguments - duh.
> #
> {
>         if [ "$1" = "-h" -o "$1" = "--h" ]; then
>                 SYNTAX
>                 exit 0
>         fi
>         if [ -z $1 ]; then
>                 {
>                 echo "Enter email for user to be subscribed: "
>                 read EMAIL
>                 if [ -z $EMAIL ]; then
>                         ERROR 30 "You must enter a valid email address."
>                 fi
>                 }
>         else
>                 EMAIL=$1
>         fi
>         if [ -z $2 ]; then
>                 {
>                 echo "Enter the first name of the person to be
> subscribed: "
>                 read FIRSTNAME
>                 if [ -z $FIRSTNAME ]; then
>                         ERROR 30 "You the first name of the subscibee."
>                 fi
>                 }
>         else
>                 FIRSTNAME=$2
>         fi
>         if [ -z $3 ]; then
>                 {
>                 echo "Enter the last name of the person to be
> subscribed: "
>                 read LASTNAME
>                 if [ -z $LASTNAME ]; then
>                         ERROR 30 "You the last name of the subscibee."
>                 fi
>                 }
>         else
>                 LASTNAME=$3
>         fi
>         if [ -z $4 ]; then
>                 {
>                 echo "Enter the list access password for this user: "
>                 read PW
>                 if [ -z $PW ]; then
>                         ERROR 30 "You must enter a password for $EMAIL."
>                 fi
>                 }
>         else
>                 PW=$4
>         fi
>         if [ -z $5 ]; then
>                 {
>                 echo "Enter the list name to subscribe $EMAIL to: "
>                 read LIST
>                 if [ -z $LIST ]; then
>                         ERROR 30 "You must enter a valid listname."
>                 fi
>                 }
>         else
>                 LIST=$5
>         fi
> }
>
> function DOCURL
> # Build the cURL call
> {
>
>         # urlencode the email '@'
>         UEMAIL=`echo $EMAIL | sed "s/\@/\%40/g"`
>         CMD="curl -s
> $MAILMANURL/${LIST}?email=${UEMAIL}&fullname=$FIRSTNAME%20$LASTNAME&pw=$
> PW&pw-conf=$PW&digest=0&email-button=Submit"
>         OUT=`${CMD}`
>         if `echo ${OUT} | grep -i "no such list"` ; then
>                 {
>                         ERROR 30 "List $LIST not found.  Please check
> and try again."
>                 }
>         else
>                 {
>                         echo "List subscription for the following user
> appears to have worked."
>                         echo "Email:     $EMAIL"
>                         echo "Full Name: $FIRSTNAME $LASTNAME"
>                         echo "The user should recieve an email
> requesting confirmation for this subscription."
>                         exit 0
>                 }
>         fi
>
> }
>
>
> CHECKCURL
> GETARGS $1 $2 $3 $4 $5
> DOCURL
> ---8<----

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 25 17:26:51 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 08:26:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] checksums
In-Reply-To: <013701c8a6e4$aef909d0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020080425082651095318817d4c@msapiro>

Melinda Gilmore wrote:

>I trying to find out if mailman uses the md5 checksum or this has to be set
>up with the installation.  Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.  I
>have not been able to find it so far.  


I'm not sure what you're asking, but old versions of Mailman used to
use 'crypt' or 'md5' to encrypt list admin and moderator passwords and
site and list creator passwords, but it currently uses 'sha'. It will
still try 'crypt' and 'md5' on the supplied password if 'sha' doesn't
match, and if it gets a 'crypt' or 'md5' match, it will migrate the
encrypted password to 'sha'.

In order to compute 'crypt', 'md5' and 'sha' checksums, it uses the
builtin Python modules.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 25 17:31:25 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 08:31:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] passwords
In-Reply-To: <012d01c8a6e4$ae8698f0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804250831250062188179b7@msapiro>

Melinda Gilmore wrote:

>Does mailman have restrictions for passwords.   Like a number or cap needs
>in the passwords.


No.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 25 17:34:59 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 08:34:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unparseable message
In-Reply-To: <20080425150932.18D841759E@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804250834590843ce4d7406@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:

>Mark Sapiro replied to one of my postings:
>
>>Quoting from section 5.1.1 of RFC 2045
>>
>>  The boundary may be followed by zero or more characters of linear
>>  whitespace. It is then terminated by either another CRLF and the
>>  header fields for the next part, or by two CRLFs, in which case
>>  there are no header fields for the next part.
>
>For the record (i.e., anyone who looks in the archives), the RFC is
>2046.


Thanks for the correction. I had looked at both, and wrote the wrong
number.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 25 17:45:28 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 08:45:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] checksums
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080425082651095318817d4c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804250845280765ce4d7399@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Melinda Gilmore wrote:
>
>>I trying to find out if mailman uses the md5 checksum or this has to be set
>>up with the installation.  Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.  I
>>have not been able to find it so far.  
>
>
>I'm not sure what you're asking, ...


It occurs to me that what you are asking is if Mailman stores passwords
in encrypted form.

The answer is yes (but using sha, not md5) for site, list creator, list
admin and list moderator passwords.

The answer is no for list member passwords in current Mailman, but this
will change in Mailman 3.0.

It would be complicated to change Mailman 2.1 to encrypt list member
passwords because the periodic and on-demand password reminder would
have to be replaced with an on-demand password reset or something
similar.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at list.org  Fri Apr 25 17:50:41 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:50:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] checksums
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200804250845280765ce4d7399@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200804250845280765ce4d7399@msapiro>
Message-ID: <A286E7F6-B0F1-48B5-9BFC-65DE98ABC9F6@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Apr 25, 2008, at 11:45 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
> It would be complicated to change Mailman 2.1 to encrypt list member
> passwords because the periodic and on-demand password reminder would
> have to be replaced with an on-demand password reset or something
> similar.

Although in 2.2 we should kill off monthly password reminders,  
implementing a password reset instead, and encrypt user passwords  
too.  In 3.0 #1 and #3 is done, but not #2.

- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 25 18:21:12 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:21:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it OK to unshunt "bad" messages?
In-Reply-To: <9D75255B8BEC89A3944931BE@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
References: <9D75255B8BEC89A3944931BE@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
Message-ID: <481204F8.30207@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:
|
| I just noticed a message in the "bad" directory. I looked at it with
| show_qfiles and it looked harmless. Probably it was broken WRT its MIME
| encoding, but it wasn't a virus or anything. On a whim I ran unshunt on
| the "bad" directory and the message was then delivered to the list.
|
| Basically I'm curious why Mailman didn't consider the message "bad" that
| time around. Is unshunt-processing somehow different from normal
| processing?


I'm guessing that you are running Mailman 2.1.10 with the patch from
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-April/061360.html>,
since there's little else these days that would put anything in the
'bad' queue. Did the file have a .psv extension?

You should really look in the 'error' log to see the message associated
with preserving the entry. It may have been an actual unparseable
message due to defective MIME structure, or some possibly transient
issue. In the first case, I'd expect the same error to occur upon
unshunting, but not necessarily in the second case. There is nothing
really in bin/unshunt that would make it succeed without correcting the
underlying problem.

The main problem with unshunting a message from the 'bad' queue (other
than having to change the extension from .psv to .pck or .bak) is that
true shunted messages have an item in the metadata indicating the
original queue. Preserved messages in the 'bad' queue don't have this,
so they will be unshunted to the 'in' queue by default, which may not be
correct - e.g. they may have come from the bounce queue.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Fri Apr 25 18:34:11 2008
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:34:11 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it OK to unshunt "bad" messages?
In-Reply-To: <481204F8.30207@msapiro.net>
References: <9D75255B8BEC89A3944931BE@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<481204F8.30207@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <72A5D220C0B3569FDC9A1DA2@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>

Hi Mark,

thanks for your reply.

--On 25. April 2008 09:21:12 -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:
>|
>| I just noticed a message in the "bad" directory. I looked at it with
>| show_qfiles and it looked harmless. Probably it was broken WRT its MIME
>| encoding, but it wasn't a virus or anything. On a whim I ran unshunt on
>| the "bad" directory and the message was then delivered to the list.
>|
>| Basically I'm curious why Mailman didn't consider the message "bad" that
>| time around. Is unshunt-processing somehow different from normal
>| processing?
>
>
> I'm guessing that you are running Mailman 2.1.10 with the patch from
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-April/061360.html>,
> since there's little else these days that would put anything in the
> 'bad' queue.

No, it's 2.1.9 with two patches you sent me a few weeks ago.

> Did the file have a .psv extension?

No, it was a .pck file. I found this entry in the vette log:

(3438) Message discarded, msgid: <c39b437d2808.47ee2e26 at wmich.edu>

Then I read this comment in Defaults.py:

# When a message that is unparsable (by the email package) is received, what
# should we do with it?  The most common cause of unparsable messages is
# broken MIME encapsulation, and the most common cause of that is viruses 
like
# Nimda.  Set this variable to No to discard such messages, or to Yes to 
store
# them in qfiles/bad subdirectory.
QRUNNER_SAVE_BAD_MESSAGES = Yes

So I guess that's what happened, although the log line "message discarded" 
is a bit misleading. BTW, is there a reason why the list a message was 
addressed to isn't logged when messages are discarded?

> You should really look in the 'error' log to see the message associated
> with preserving the entry.

There was nothing in "error", only that line in "vette".

> It may have been an actual unparseable
> message due to defective MIME structure, or some possibly transient
> issue. In the first case, I'd expect the same error to occur upon
> unshunting, but not necessarily in the second case. There is nothing
> really in bin/unshunt that would make it succeed without correcting the
> underlying problem.

OK.

> The main problem with unshunting a message from the 'bad' queue (other
> than having to change the extension from .psv to .pck or .bak) is that
> true shunted messages have an item in the metadata indicating the
> original queue. Preserved messages in the 'bad' queue don't have this,
> so they will be unshunted to the 'in' queue by default, which may not be
> correct - e.g. they may have come from the bounce queue.

But that should be obvious after looking at it with show_qfiles, right?

Cheers, Sebastian
-- 
     .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Geb?ude 52), Zimmer 18.:.
Zentrum f?r angewandte Informatik - Universit?tsweiter Service RRZK
.:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ? +49-221-478-5587.:.
                   .:.:.:.Skype: shagedorn.:.:.:.
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From b19141 at anl.gov  Fri Apr 25 18:33:07 2008
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:33:07 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "IOError reading list extension" Message
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net>'
	dated: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 08:14:16 -0700
Message-ID: <20080425163307.604A91759E@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

Barry Finkel wrote:

>>I am running a home-built Mailman 2.1.9 Ubuntu package with the latest
>>security patch.  I see messages in the error log like this one:
>>
>>     Apr 25 08:00:05 2008 (27326) IOError reading list extension:
>>       [Errno 20] Not a directory:
>>       '/var/lib/mailman/lists/append_description.newdescription/extend.py'
>>
>>I do not see any
>>
>>     extend.py
>>
>>in the directory in which I build Mailman.


And Mark Sapiro replied:

>Is 'append_description.newdescription' the name of a list?
>
>This error occurs when Mailman attempts to read (actually execute) the
>optional extend.py module for a list during the instantiation of that
>list, and it gets an error exception other than 'doesn't exist'.

The three files in the /var/lib/mailman/lists directory

     append_description.newdescription
     append_description.description
     append_description.configfile

were created when I was testing a script to add "{category}" to the
description field of each Mailman list.  I am not sure how they
got there, as my script was running from my home directory.
I have deleted them.  Since these three files are not Mailman lists,
which Mailman process that was treating them as list names is
not important.

We find the Mailman "home" page (i.e., listinfo) not user-friendly, as
it lists all of the advertised lists in alphabetical order.  We have
about 80 advertised lists.  We want the lists sorted by category, so I
wrote a script to append "{category}" to each list description.  I have
defined eighteeen different "{category}" strings, and we are working
on generating a new listinfo page with the lists sorted by category.
The plan is to

     1) Make "listinfo.original" point to the Mailman-generated page.

     2) Have the new "listinfo" page use the "listinfo.original" page
        to extract the advertised list names and descriptions.
        A new list of lists page will be displayed using the category
        strings at the send of each list's "description" field and an
        external file that describes the various category strings.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 25 18:49:58 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:49:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "IOError reading list extension" Message
In-Reply-To: <20080425163307.604A91759E@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC17602008042509495804842759f7be@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:
>Since these three files are not Mailman lists,
>which Mailman process that was treating them as list names is
>not important.


It's important to me. I would like to understand why the name of a file
in the lists/ directory is being returned (apparently by
Utils.list_lists()) as a list name, because this isn't supposed to
happen (and I can't make it happen in my test installation).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 25 19:16:27 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:16:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it OK to unshunt "bad" messages?
In-Reply-To: <72A5D220C0B3569FDC9A1DA2@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
References: <9D75255B8BEC89A3944931BE@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<481204F8.30207@msapiro.net>
	<72A5D220C0B3569FDC9A1DA2@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
Message-ID: <481211EB.4070700@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:
|
| --On 25. April 2008 09:21:12 -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
|>
|> I'm guessing that you are running Mailman 2.1.10 with the patch from
|> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-April/061360.html>,
|> since there's little else these days that would put anything in the
|> 'bad' queue.
|
| No, it's 2.1.9 with two patches you sent me a few weeks ago.
|
|> Did the file have a .psv extension?
|
| No, it was a .pck file. I found this entry in the vette log:
|
| (3438) Message discarded, msgid: <c39b437d2808.47ee2e26 at wmich.edu>


This should have nothing to do with anything in the 'bad' queue. This
message is logged when a handler decides to discard an incoming post,
e.g. a post from a non-member in discard_these_nonmembers or any other
condition with a discard action.


| Then I read this comment in Defaults.py:
|
| # When a message that is unparsable (by the email package) is received,
| what
| # should we do with it?  The most common cause of unparsable messages is
| # broken MIME encapsulation, and the most common cause of that is
| viruses like
| # Nimda.  Set this variable to No to discard such messages, or to Yes to
| store
| # them in qfiles/bad subdirectory.
| QRUNNER_SAVE_BAD_MESSAGES = Yes
|
| So I guess that's what happened, although the log line "message
| discarded" is a bit misleading. BTW, is there a reason why the list a
| message was addressed to isn't logged when messages are discarded?


That setting in Defaults.py and the qfiles/bad directory have not been
used by anything other than the bin/update script for a long time (since
2.0.x I think). I just resurrected them in the 2.1.10 patch I posted
this week.

How old was the file you unshunted or how old was the message in it?

The list isn't logged in the case of a 'qfiles/bad' entry because some
error prevents the original entry from being properly read so we can't
get all the nice information like what list it was for.

The list name isn't logged in the case of the vette log entry, because
whoever created that code didn't think it would be useful or just didn't
think to do it (You could find the message-id in the MTA log if you
really wanted to know the list). Changing long standing log messages is
not something to be done lightly as it potentially breaks peoples log
analysis tools.


|> You should really look in the 'error' log to see the message associated
|> with preserving the entry.
|
| There was nothing in "error", only that line in "vette".


This is not surprising given that this is Mailman 2.1.9, as I think that
means the message must have been quite old.


|> The main problem with unshunting a message from the 'bad' queue (other
|> than having to change the extension from .psv to .pck or .bak) is that
|> true shunted messages have an item in the metadata indicating the
|> original queue. Preserved messages in the 'bad' queue don't have this,
|> so they will be unshunted to the 'in' queue by default, which may not be
|> correct - e.g. they may have come from the bounce queue.
|
| But that should be obvious after looking at it with show_qfiles, right?


In that example, yes, but not necessarily if it came from the 'out' or
'archive' queues. At least in these cases it would be more subtle, and
you might need to see the metadata which show_qfiles doesn't show you
(but dumpdb does).

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Apr 25 19:29:00 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:29:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] checksums
In-Reply-To: <013701c8a6e4$aef909d0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu>
References: <013701c8a6e4$aef909d0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu>
Message-ID: <481214DC.2090103@shub-internet.org>

Melinda Gilmore wrote:

> I trying to find out if mailman uses the md5 checksum or this has to be set
> up with the installation.  Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.  I
> have not been able to find it so far.

What do you mean by "uses the md5 checksum"?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Apr 25 19:29:29 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:29:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] passwords
In-Reply-To: <012d01c8a6e4$ae8698f0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu>
References: <012d01c8a6e4$ae8698f0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu>
Message-ID: <481214F9.9070808@shub-internet.org>

Melinda Gilmore wrote:

> Does mailman have restrictions for passwords.   Like a number or cap needs
> in the passwords.  I am not finding anything on that.  I know in my
> experience it just lets me put in anything for a password, wether it be for
> owner or user?

No restrictions, so far as I know.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Fri Apr 25 19:36:18 2008
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:36:18 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it OK to unshunt "bad" messages?
In-Reply-To: <481211EB.4070700@msapiro.net>
References: <9D75255B8BEC89A3944931BE@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<481204F8.30207@msapiro.net>
	<72A5D220C0B3569FDC9A1DA2@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<481211EB.4070700@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <BD8BE986EEBEA1C6B37068FF@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>

--On 25. April 2008 10:16:27 -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:
>|
>| No, it was a .pck file. I found this entry in the vette log:
>|
>| (3438) Message discarded, msgid: <c39b437d2808.47ee2e26 at wmich.edu>
>
>
> This should have nothing to do with anything in the 'bad' queue.

But it was definitely that message!

> This
> message is logged when a handler decides to discard an incoming post,
> e.g. a post from a non-member in discard_these_nonmembers or any other
> condition with a discard action.

That's what I thought initially, but how did it end up in "bad" then? Could 
it be caused by this patch to 2.1.9 that I applied on March 8:

                syslog('error', 'Ignoring unparseable message: %s',filebase)
 +             self._switchboard.finish(filebase)

I see this line in "error" shortly after the message that I found in "bad" 
arrived:

Mar 29 17:01:05 2008 (3438) Ignoring unparseable message: 
1206806465.417665+d798425535212058c480aebf7900add235ac4cb9
Mar 29 17:01:05 2008 (3438) Ignoring unparseable message: 
1206806465.4255731+c874adc58f17010096988e4e388e31260a56677a

But how can I tell what messages those really are?

> How old was the file you unshunted or how old was the message in it?

The message was from March 29. I wouldn't have bothered unshunting it, but 
it seemed as though it might still be relevant. Unfortunately I don't 
remember the timestamp of the file and now it's gone, of course.

> The list name isn't logged in the case of the vette log entry, because
> whoever created that code didn't think it would be useful or just didn't
> think to do it (You could find the message-id in the MTA log if you
> really wanted to know the list).

That's true.

> Changing long standing log messages is
> not something to be done lightly as it potentially breaks peoples log
> analysis tools.

I can see that, but still I'd put it on my wishlist for 2.2 or 3.0, because 
it's happened a few times that list admins complained about "lost 
messages". It would've been much easier to see that mail to those lists had 
been discarded if the list name had been logged. The way it is now we first 
had to look at the MTA's log and then search the error log for the 
message-id. And when a single message is sent to more than one list, that 
still doesn't necessarily tell you the whole story ...

>|> You should really look in the 'error' log to see the message associated
>|> with preserving the entry.
>|
>| There was nothing in "error", only that line in "vette".
>
> This is not surprising given that this is Mailman 2.1.9, as I think that
> means the message must have been quite old.

Not that old ...
-- 
     .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Geb?ude 52), Zimmer 18.:.
Zentrum f?r angewandte Informatik - Universit?tsweiter Service RRZK
.:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ? +49-221-478-5587.:.
                   .:.:.:.Skype: shagedorn.:.:.:.
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From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 25 20:19:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:19:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it OK to unshunt "bad" messages?
In-Reply-To: <BD8BE986EEBEA1C6B37068FF@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
References: <9D75255B8BEC89A3944931BE@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<481204F8.30207@msapiro.net>
	<72A5D220C0B3569FDC9A1DA2@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<481211EB.4070700@msapiro.net>
	<BD8BE986EEBEA1C6B37068FF@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
Message-ID: <4812209C.6000905@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:
| --On 25. April 2008 10:16:27 -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
|
|> Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:
|> |
|> | No, it was a .pck file. I found this entry in the vette log:
|> |
|> | (3438) Message discarded, msgid: <c39b437d2808.47ee2e26 at wmich.edu>
|>
|>
|> This should have nothing to do with anything in the 'bad' queue.
|
| But it was definitely that message!


I have been overlooking something. I think it was the same message in
the 'bad' queue and in the vette log entry. This happens when the list's
Content filtering -> filter_action is Preserve and the message is
discarded because content filtering removed all its content.

If it was accepted when unshunted, the list's content filtering settings
must have been changed in the interim.


|> This
|> message is logged when a handler decides to discard an incoming post,
|> e.g. a post from a non-member in discard_these_nonmembers or any other
|> condition with a discard action.
|
| That's what I thought initially, but how did it end up in "bad" then?
| Could it be caused by this patch to 2.1.9 that I applied on March 8:
|
|                syslog('error', 'Ignoring unparseable message:
%s',filebase)
| +             self._switchboard.finish(filebase)


This patch doesn't put anything in 'bad'. In fact, without this patch,
the original unparseable queue entry is left in the original queue with
a .bak extension. The patch just removes the .bak file unless you also
have patches to the finish() method in Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py.


| I see this line in "error" shortly after the message that I found in
| "bad" arrived:
|
| Mar 29 17:01:05 2008 (3438) Ignoring unparseable message:
| 1206806465.417665+d798425535212058c480aebf7900add235ac4cb9
| Mar 29 17:01:05 2008 (3438) Ignoring unparseable message:
| 1206806465.4255731+c874adc58f17010096988e4e388e31260a56677a
|
| But how can I tell what messages those really are?


Those are two separate messages/queue entries. In 2.1.9 with the patch
above, you can't tell anything, because the queue entries are gone. In
2.1.10 as released last Monday, the error log messages would have been
for example,

'Skipping and preserving unparseable message:
1206806465.4255731+c874adc58f17010096988e4e388e31260a56677a'

and the queue entry would have been saved as
1206806465.4255731+c874adc58f17010096988e4e388e31260a56677a.psv in
qfiles/shunt.

The patch I posted at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-April/061360.html>
makes this conditional on QRUNNER_SAVE_BAD_MESSAGES and saves the entry
in qfiles/bad instead.



|> Changing long standing log messages is
|> not something to be done lightly as it potentially breaks peoples log
|> analysis tools.
|
| I can see that, but still I'd put it on my wishlist for 2.2 or 3.0,
| because it's happened a few times that list admins complained about
| "lost messages". It would've been much easier to see that mail to those
| lists had been discarded if the list name had been logged. The way it is
| now we first had to look at the MTA's log and then search the error log
| for the message-id. And when a single message is sent to more than one
| list, that still doesn't necessarily tell you the whole story ...


I understand. There are a number of log messages that could benefit from
additional information. I've put it on my 2.2 list to review these.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From b19141 at anl.gov  Fri Apr 25 20:19:22 2008
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:19:22 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "IOError reading list extension" Message
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net>'
	dated: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:49:58 -0700
Message-ID: <20080425181922.1B9E71759E@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

Barry Finkel wrote:
>>Since these three files are not Mailman lists,
>>which Mailman process that was treating them as list names is
>>not important.

Mark Sapiro replied:
>It's important to me. I would like to understand why the name of a file
>in the lists/ directory is being returned (apparently by
>Utils.list_lists()) as a list name, because this isn't supposed to
>happen (and I can't make it happen in my test installation).

katydid# ls -al /var/lib/mailman/lists/ | grep -v ^d
total 992
katydid# 

Once I removed those files, there are no other regular files in the
directory, only sub-directories.  These messages are appearing each
hour at

     hh:00:03

and also at

     07:20:03

I have a Mailman cron that runs each morning at 07:20

     /usr/local/cron-scripts/mailman_bounce_report.exec

to produce a summary of all subscriptions with a non-zero bounce score;
it essentially does

     #!/bin/csh
     foreach list (`ls /var/lib/mailman/lists`)
          /usr/sbin/withlist -r get_bounce_info $list \
        > mailman_bounce_report.tmpout
     end

where

     get_bounce_info

came from your repository

     http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/get_bounce_info.py

In that script I assume that everything in the lists subdirectory
is the name of a Mailman list; I do not check for a regular file,
and I am not sure if I really need to code such a check.

I have another cron that runs every hour, on the hour, that produces a
flat file containing records

     listname e-mail address

so I have a list of all of the subscriptions.  That script

     /usr/local/cron-scripts/mailman_who.exec

essentially does:

     #!/bin/csh
     foreach list (`ls /var/lib/mailman/lists`)
          /usr/lib/mailman/bin/list_members -o $destdir/$list $list
     end

I also do not have a check in this script.  I am using 

     foreach list (`ls /var/lib/mailman/lists`)

and not

     Utils.list_lists())

to get a list of lists.  I assume that the Utils.list_lists()) code
has the check that I do not have in "foreach list".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From z.szalbot at lc-words.com  Fri Apr 25 20:47:30 2008
From: z.szalbot at lc-words.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:47:30 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower'
Message-ID: <48122742.7050709@lc-words.com>

Hello,

I have installed mailman 2.1.9.5 and now upgraded to 2.1.10 and see the 
following in mailman's error log.

Apr 25 20:02:49 2008 (24138) SHUNTING: 
1209146569.0795979+80ec39567f7efbc1306687a6c84ed28bfccfc400
Apr 25 20:04:36 2008 (24138) Uncaught runner exception: 'NoneType' 
object has no attribute 'lower'
Apr 25 20:04:36 2008 (24138) Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 114, in _oneloop
     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 185, in _onefile
     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 241, 
in _dispose
     res.do_command('join')
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 139, 
in do_command
     return handler.process(self, args)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py", line 74, 
in process
     if digest is None and password.lower() in ('digest', 'nodigest'):
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower'

I will appreciate if you could help me deal with it. Thank you!


-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot
www.lc-words.com

From brad at python.org  Fri Apr 25 21:19:14 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:19:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower'
In-Reply-To: <48122742.7050709@lc-words.com>
References: <48122742.7050709@lc-words.com>
Message-ID: <48122EB2.60203@python.org>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:

> I have installed mailman 2.1.9.5 and now upgraded to 2.1.10 and see the 
> following in mailman's error log.

Well, we've never shipped a version number 2.1.9.5, so that tells me you're 
probably using a binary packaged version provided by some other source. 
Maybe your OS vendor, maybe someone else.

However, since we don't know what they may have done to the code that they 
have packaged and shipped to you, we can't really tell you anything about 
how things may now act if you've applied some sort of patch or something 
from our code to try to bring you up to date.

If you want to completely de-install the old version and then re-install 
from our tarball, I would expect that should work, but I won't give you any 
guarantees.


Your first step for resolving all these problems should be to contact your 
vendor who provided the previous binary package version you were using, and 
get assistance from them.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team, & Co-moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From gilmore.126 at osu.edu  Fri Apr 25 21:31:25 2008
From: gilmore.126 at osu.edu (Melinda Gilmore)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:31:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] checksums
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080425082651095318817d4c@msapiro>
References: <013701c8a6e4$aef909d0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu>
	<PC176020080425082651095318817d4c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <01f301c8a70a$f35318c0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu>

What I mean by Checksum is a message bounce like this.

he following message was not processed due to the following reasons:
- The body of the message has a checksum matching those messages already
processed.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 11:27 AM
To: Melinda Gilmore; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] checksums

Melinda Gilmore wrote:

>I trying to find out if mailman uses the md5 checksum or this has to be 
>set up with the installation.  Any help on this would be greatly 
>appreciated.  I have not been able to find it so far.


I'm not sure what you're asking, but old versions of Mailman used to use
'crypt' or 'md5' to encrypt list admin and moderator passwords and site and
list creator passwords, but it currently uses 'sha'. It will still try
'crypt' and 'md5' on the supplied password if 'sha' doesn't match, and if it
gets a 'crypt' or 'md5' match, it will migrate the encrypted password to
'sha'.

In order to compute 'crypt', 'md5' and 'sha' checksums, it uses the builtin
Python modules.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Fri Apr 25 21:43:22 2008
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 21:43:22 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it OK to unshunt "bad" messages?
In-Reply-To: <4812209C.6000905@msapiro.net>
References: <9D75255B8BEC89A3944931BE@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<481204F8.30207@msapiro.net>
	<72A5D220C0B3569FDC9A1DA2@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<481211EB.4070700@msapiro.net>
	<BD8BE986EEBEA1C6B37068FF@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<4812209C.6000905@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <E5EA07187F81AD0CA97622ED@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>

--On 25. April 2008 11:19:08 -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

>|> This should have nothing to do with anything in the 'bad' queue.
>|
>| But it was definitely that message!
>
>
> I have been overlooking something. I think it was the same message in
> the 'bad' queue and in the vette log entry. This happens when the list's
> Content filtering -> filter_action is Preserve and the message is
> discarded because content filtering removed all its content.
>
> If it was accepted when unshunted, the list's content filtering settings
> must have been changed in the interim.

Thanks, that makes sense! The list does have content filtering and 
"preserve" as its filter_action.
-- 
     .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Geb?ude 52), Zimmer 18.:.
Zentrum f?r angewandte Informatik - Universit?tsweiter Service RRZK
.:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ? +49-221-478-5587.:.
                   .:.:.:.Skype: shagedorn.:.:.:.
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From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 25 21:48:17 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:48:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower'
In-Reply-To: <48122742.7050709@lc-words.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008042512481708289a3439ed@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>I have installed mailman 2.1.9.5 and now upgraded to 2.1.10 and see the 
>following in mailman's error log.
>
>Apr 25 20:02:49 2008 (24138) SHUNTING: 
>1209146569.0795979+80ec39567f7efbc1306687a6c84ed28bfccfc400
>Apr 25 20:04:36 2008 (24138) Uncaught runner exception: 'NoneType' 
>object has no attribute 'lower'
>Apr 25 20:04:36 2008 (24138) Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 114, in _oneloop
>     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 185, in _onefile
>     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 241, 
>in _dispose
>     res.do_command('join')
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 139, 
>in do_command
>     return handler.process(self, args)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py", line 74, 
>in process
>     if digest is None and password.lower() in ('digest', 'nodigest'):
>AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower'
>
>I will appreciate if you could help me deal with it. Thank you!


A description of this issue along with the patch to fix it is at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-April/061381.html>,
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-announce/2008-April/000111.html>,
and
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2008-April/020162.html>.

This is the major reason that there will be a 'patch' release soon.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 25 21:57:41 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:57:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] checksums
In-Reply-To: <01f301c8a70a$f35318c0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602008042512574104842759f7ad@msapiro>

Melinda Gilmore wrote:

>What I mean by Checksum is a message bounce like this.
>
>he following message was not processed due to the following reasons:
>- The body of the message has a checksum matching those messages already
>processed.


Mailman doesn't do this. The only thing close is pipermail attempts to
avoid duplicate archive messages, but that's based on message-id, not
a checksum.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 25 22:34:51 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:34:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower'
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008042512481708289a3439ed@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1760200804251334510812ab1cb1bf@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>>
>>I have installed mailman 2.1.9.5 and now upgraded to 2.1.10 and see the 
>>following in mailman's error log.
>>
>>Apr 25 20:02:49 2008 (24138) SHUNTING: 
>>1209146569.0795979+80ec39567f7efbc1306687a6c84ed28bfccfc400
>>Apr 25 20:04:36 2008 (24138) Uncaught runner exception: 'NoneType' 
>>object has no attribute 'lower'
>>Apr 25 20:04:36 2008 (24138) Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 114, in _oneloop
>>     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 185, in _onefile
>>     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 241, 
>>in _dispose
>>     res.do_command('join')
>>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 139, 
>>in do_command
>>     return handler.process(self, args)
>>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py", line 74, 
>>in process
>>     if digest is None and password.lower() in ('digest', 'nodigest'):
>>AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower'
>>
>>I will appreciate if you could help me deal with it. Thank you!
>
>
>A description of this issue along with the patch to fix it is at
><http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-April/061381.html>,
><http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-announce/2008-April/000111.html>,
>and
><http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2008-April/020162.html>.
>
>This is the major reason that there will be a 'patch' release soon.


One more thing. You should apply the patch and restart Mailman and then
use bin/unshunt to requeue the shunted messages because they are email
subscribe requests you probably don't want to loose.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at python.org  Fri Apr 25 22:47:14 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:47:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] checksums
In-Reply-To: <01f301c8a70a$f35318c0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu>
References: <013701c8a6e4$aef909d0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu>	<PC176020080425082651095318817d4c@msapiro>
	<01f301c8a70a$f35318c0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu>
Message-ID: <48124352.40300@python.org>

Melinda Gilmore wrote:

> What I mean by Checksum is a message bounce like this.
> 
> he following message was not processed due to the following reasons:
> - The body of the message has a checksum matching those messages already
> processed.

This is an error from Listserv (see <http://8help.osu.edu/33266.html>). 
This has nothing to do with Mailman.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team, & Co-moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 25 23:30:56 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:30:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "IOError reading list extension" Message
In-Reply-To: <20080425181922.1B9E71759E@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC17602008042514305605932bf030e9@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:
>
[...]
>
>     #!/bin/csh
>     foreach list (`ls /var/lib/mailman/lists`)
>          /usr/lib/mailman/bin/list_members -o $destdir/$list $list
>     end
>
>I also do not have a check in this script.  I am using 
>
>     foreach list (`ls /var/lib/mailman/lists`)
>
>and not
>
>     Utils.list_lists())
>
>to get a list of lists.  I assume that the Utils.list_lists()) code
>has the check that I do not have in "foreach list".


Thanks for the info. It appears I erroneously assumed from the 08:00:03
timestamp in your OP that it was cron/checkdbs, but it now seems it is
all from your scripts which do not check that the names in
`ls /var/lib/mailman/lists` are all valid lists.

If you would use `/usr/lib/mailman/bin/list_lists -b` instead of
`ls /var/lib/mailman/lists`, you would avoid this problem.

Your code is OK as long as all the names in `ls /var/lib/mailman/lists`
are in fact lists, but it fails when this isn't true.

And yes, the Utils.list_lists() function only returns the names of
directories that contain a config.pck or config.db file.

So, bottom line, use `bin/list_lists -b` instead of `ls lists` to get
the list names, and you won't need to worry about whether or not a
name is a list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From egsnyder at gmail.com  Sat Apr 26 01:14:35 2008
From: egsnyder at gmail.com (Eric Snyder)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:14:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman hosted on 1and1?
Message-ID: <efdc38a60804251614m57063adejbd09c1d66a5a4bf4@mail.gmail.com>

We have our corporate domain hosted on 1and1.com.  Can we install mailman on
the 1and1 environment?  Anyone already doing this?


-- 

===================================
Eric Snyder
Pres/CEO; Snyder Thorn Enterprises, Inc.
(613) 688-1570; EGS at SnyderThorn.com
www.SnyderThorn.com
===================================

From brad at python.org  Sat Apr 26 01:45:38 2008
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:45:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman hosted on 1and1?
In-Reply-To: <efdc38a60804251614m57063adejbd09c1d66a5a4bf4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <efdc38a60804251614m57063adejbd09c1d66a5a4bf4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48126D22.6090502@python.org>

Eric Snyder wrote:

> We have our corporate domain hosted on 1and1.com.  Can we install mailman on
> the 1and1 environment?  Anyone already doing this?

Do you have full root access on the box?  Do you know if they limit your 
outbound port 25 access, or place any other restrictions on you?

Those will be the kinds of questions you need to have answers to.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team, & Co-moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

From z.szalbot at lc-words.com  Sat Apr 26 09:17:15 2008
From: z.szalbot at lc-words.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 09:17:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower'
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008042512481708289a3439ed@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008042512481708289a3439ed@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4812D6FB.7090800@lc-words.com>

Hello,

Mark Sapiro pisze:

> Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>>
>>I have installed mailman 2.1.9.5 and now upgraded to 2.1.10 and see the 
>>following in mailman's error log.


Barry - sorry to have misinformed. I meant 2.1.9_5. Installed from ports 
on FreeBSD 7.0-Release.

> A description of this issue along with the patch to fix it is at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-April/061381.html>,
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-announce/2008-April/000111.html>,
> and
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2008-April/020162.html>.
> 
> This is the major reason that there will be a 'patch' release soon.


Thank you Mark - this has solved the issue!

 


-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot
www.lc-words.com

From egsnyder at gmail.com  Sat Apr 26 11:49:55 2008
From: egsnyder at gmail.com (Eric Snyder)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 05:49:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd:  Mailman hosted on 1and1?
In-Reply-To: <48126D22.6090502@python.org>
References: <efdc38a60804251614m57063adejbd09c1d66a5a4bf4@mail.gmail.com>
	<48126D22.6090502@python.org>
Message-ID: <efdc38a60804260249y21dc9d7av362ef74f88ecbb5@mail.gmail.com>

We have our corporate domain - snyderthorn.com -- registered and hosted on
1and1.  We are using mailman to maintain our corporate mailing lists on
another domain with another ISP.

Please advise.  Bearing in mind the constraints mentioned below, can we
install mailman on our account at 1and1?


===================================
Eric Snyder
Pres/CEO; Snyder Thorn Enterprises, Inc.
(613) 688-1570; EGS at SnyderThorn.com
www.SnyderThorn.com
===================================

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Date: Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman hosted on 1and1?
To: Eric Snyder <egsnyder at gmail.com>
Cc: Mailman-Users at python.org


Eric Snyder wrote:

 We have our corporate domain hosted on 1and1.com.  Can we install mailman
> on
> the 1and1 environment?  Anyone already doing this?
>

Do you have full root access on the box?  Do you know if they limit your
outbound port 25 access, or place any other restrictions on you?

Those will be the kinds of questions you need to have answers to.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team, & Co-moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists



--

From z.szalbot at lc-words.com  Sat Apr 26 13:40:00 2008
From: z.szalbot at lc-words.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 13:40:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off digests
Message-ID: <48131490.9090309@lc-words.com>

Hello,

I have a question about digests. I do not need them for the types of 
mailing lists we use, so I was glad to see an option to switch them off. 
I set
DEFAULT_DIGESTABLE = No
in mm_cfg.py and then restarted mailman. However, it has no effect on 
existing lists. Is that so that the setting is effective only for lists 
created from now on (and not on the existing ones)?

Thanks!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot
www.lc-words.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 26 17:31:34 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 08:31:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off digests
In-Reply-To: <48131490.9090309@lc-words.com>
Message-ID: <PC18302008042608313405005d5e88d6@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>I have a question about digests. I do not need them for the types of 
>mailing lists we use, so I was glad to see an option to switch them off. 
>I set
>DEFAULT_DIGESTABLE = No
>in mm_cfg.py and then restarted mailman. However, it has no effect on 
>existing lists. Is that so that the setting is effective only for lists 
>created from now on (and not on the existing ones)?


That is correct.

The setting for existing lists is 'digestable' on the Digest options
page.

If you want to set digestable to No for all existing lists, you could
run something like


#! /bin/bash
cd /path/to/mailman
temp=`mktemp`
echo digestable = 0 > $temp
for list in `bin/list_lists --bare` ; do
bin/config_list -i $temp $list
echo --- digest members in $list ---
bin/list_members --digest
done
rm $temp


You need to list the current digest members because you will have to
set them to 'regular' after setting the list's digestable to no or
they won't get any mail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From z.szalbot at lc-words.com  Sat Apr 26 18:05:12 2008
From: z.szalbot at lc-words.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 18:05:12 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off digests
In-Reply-To: <PC18302008042608313405005d5e88d6@msapiro>
References: <PC18302008042608313405005d5e88d6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <481352B8.9010509@lc-words.com>

Hello,

Mark Sapiro pisze:

> Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>>
>>I have a question about digests. I do not need them for the types of 
>>mailing lists we use, so I was glad to see an option to switch them off. 
>>I set
>>DEFAULT_DIGESTABLE = No
>>in mm_cfg.py and then restarted mailman. However, it has no effect on 
>>existing lists. Is that so that the setting is effective only for lists 
>>created from now on (and not on the existing ones)?
> 
> 
> That is correct.
> 
> The setting for existing lists is 'digestable' on the Digest options
> page.
> 
> If you want to set digestable to No for all existing lists, you could
> run something like
> 
> 
> #! /bin/bash
> cd /path/to/mailman
> temp=`mktemp`
> echo digestable = 0 > $temp
> for list in `bin/list_lists --bare` ; do
> bin/config_list -i $temp $list
> echo --- digest members in $list ---
> bin/list_members --digest
> done
> rm $temp

I did run it but I get

List name is required
--- digest members in general.test ---
List all the members of a mailing list.

Usage: bin/list_members [options] listname

Where:

     --output file
     -o file
         Write output to specified file instead of standard out.

<snip>

Should I change:
for list in `bin/list_lists --bare` ; do

into:

for list in `bin/list_lists --LIST_NAME` ; do

Or how do I supply the list of lists?

Many thanks!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot
www.lc-words.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 26 18:13:37 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 09:13:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off digests
In-Reply-To: <481352B8.9010509@lc-words.com>
Message-ID: <PC1830200804260913370171a9866110@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro pisze:
>
>> If you want to set digestable to No for all existing lists, you could
>> run something like
>> 
>> 
>> #! /bin/bash
>> cd /path/to/mailman
>> temp=`mktemp`
>> echo digestable = 0 > $temp
>> for list in `bin/list_lists --bare` ; do
>> bin/config_list -i $temp $list
>> echo --- digest members in $list ---
>> bin/list_members --digest
>> done
>> rm $temp
>
>I did run it but I get
>
>List name is required
>--- digest members in general.test ---
>List all the members of a mailing list.
>
>Usage: bin/list_members [options] listname
[...]


My mistake. line 8 (of 10) in the above script should be

bin/list_members --digest $list

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From z.szalbot at lc-words.com  Sat Apr 26 18:33:12 2008
From: z.szalbot at lc-words.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 18:33:12 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off digests
In-Reply-To: <PC1830200804260913370171a9866110@msapiro>
References: <PC1830200804260913370171a9866110@msapiro>
Message-ID: <48135948.70609@lc-words.com>

Hello,

Mark Sapiro pisze:

> My mistake. line 8 (of 10) in the above script should be
> 
> bin/list_members --digest $list


Thanks for the script. It seems to list the lists correctly, although 
similar error appears.

I restarted Mailman but when I try to subscribe I still see the option 
"Receive digests?" on web subscription page.

Thanks!

 


-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot
www.lc-words.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 26 18:51:58 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 09:51:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off digests
In-Reply-To: <48135948.70609@lc-words.com>
Message-ID: <PC18302008042609515803751513cc71@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>Thanks for the script. It seems to list the lists correctly, although 
>similar error appears.


Do you mean an error running the script or the 'error' below (digest
option still on listinfo form)?


>I restarted Mailman but when I try to subscribe I still see the option 
>"Receive digests?" on web subscription page.


What do you see as the setting for 'digestable' on the list's Digest
options page?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From z.szalbot at lc-words.com  Sat Apr 26 18:57:08 2008
From: z.szalbot at lc-words.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 18:57:08 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off digests
In-Reply-To: <PC18302008042609515803751513cc71@msapiro>
References: <PC18302008042609515803751513cc71@msapiro>
Message-ID: <48135EE4.7080509@lc-words.com>

Hello,

Mark Sapiro pisze:

>> I restarted Mailman but when I try to subscribe I still see the
>> option "Receive digests?" on web subscription page.
> 
> What do you see as the setting for 'digestable' on the list's Digest 
> options page?



Mark - apologies! I have not realized this will create another option on 
the Digest options page. Everything is OK now. Thank you so much for 
your help!


-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot
www.lc-words.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 26 19:12:57 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 10:12:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off digests
In-Reply-To: <48135EE4.7080509@lc-words.com>
Message-ID: <PC1830200804261012570343cada8190@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro pisze:
>
>>> I restarted Mailman but when I try to subscribe I still see the
>>> option "Receive digests?" on web subscription page.
>> 
>> What do you see as the setting for 'digestable' on the list's Digest 
>> options page?
>
>
>
>Mark - apologies! I have not realized this will create another option on 
>the Digest options page. Everything is OK now. Thank you so much for 
>your help!


Nothing you did "created" that option. That option was always there.
The purpose of the script was to set the option to No for all lists so
you wouldn't have to do it manually for each list via the web. If that
didn't happen, there was something wrong with the script or the way it
was run.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From z.szalbot at lc-words.com  Sat Apr 26 19:25:08 2008
From: z.szalbot at lc-words.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 19:25:08 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off digests
In-Reply-To: <PC1830200804261012570343cada8190@msapiro>
References: <PC1830200804261012570343cada8190@msapiro>
Message-ID: <48136574.9080809@lc-words.com>

Dear Marc,


> Nothing you did "created" that option. That option was always there.
> The purpose of the script was to set the option to No for all lists so
> you wouldn't have to do it manually for each list via the web. If that
> didn't happen, there was something wrong with the script or the way it
> was run.

Now I am even more ashamed... I am sorry to have created so much list 
traffic when the option was already there. Somehow I overlooked it 
because I never needed to configure digest options...

Thanks again!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot
www.lc-words.com

From z.szalbot at lc-words.com  Sat Apr 26 19:53:19 2008
From: z.szalbot at lc-words.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 19:53:19 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscription request sent twice
Message-ID: <48136C0F.7090401@lc-words.com>

Hello,

Sorry for yet another post. I have been googling to find an answer but 
have not been successful.

It seems that on my new server Mailman will sent each subscription 
request twice. Regular posts, information that someone is already on 
list are not sent twice. Only subscription requests. For example, these 
are the two I got while testing:

confirm 0be9992ac451e22a969a29bbc5f7c5a4d2a9c30d
confirm 3a90201f480e72b58bc804f650f67a84a18bc284

and Mailman's subscribe log shows:
Apr 26 10:53:54 2008 (76585) eu.ppl: pending Zbigniew Szalbot 
<zszalbot at yahoo.com>  zszalbot at yahoo.com
Apr 26 10:53:54 2008 (76585) eu.ppl: pending Zbigniew Szalbot 
<zszalbot at yahoo.com>  zszalbot at yahoo.com

I have analized MTA's logs and they have really been sent twice as 
separate messages although I requested subscription only once.

I am not blaming Mailman. I feel that there must be something wrong with 
my setup that this happens. I'll appreciate if someone has had the same 
experience and can suggest where to start troubleshooting it.

Thanks!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot
www.lc-words.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 26 20:34:03 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:34:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscription request sent twice
In-Reply-To: <48136C0F.7090401@lc-words.com>
Message-ID: <PC1830200804261134030718d2305ad1@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>It seems that on my new server Mailman will sent each subscription 
>request twice. Regular posts, information that someone is already on 
>list are not sent twice. Only subscription requests. For example, these 
>are the two I got while testing:
>
>confirm 0be9992ac451e22a969a29bbc5f7c5a4d2a9c30d
>confirm 3a90201f480e72b58bc804f650f67a84a18bc284
>
>and Mailman's subscribe log shows:
>Apr 26 10:53:54 2008 (76585) eu.ppl: pending Zbigniew Szalbot 
><zszalbot at yahoo.com>  zszalbot at yahoo.com
>Apr 26 10:53:54 2008 (76585) eu.ppl: pending Zbigniew Szalbot 
><zszalbot at yahoo.com>  zszalbot at yahoo.com
>
>I have analized MTA's logs and they have really been sent twice as 
>separate messages although I requested subscription only once.


How did you request subscription? Did you send an email to
eu.ppl-request, and if so, did it contain two subscribe commands, one
in the subject and one in the body?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From z.szalbot at lc-words.com  Sat Apr 26 20:41:09 2008
From: z.szalbot at lc-words.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 20:41:09 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscription request sent twice
In-Reply-To: <PC1830200804261134030718d2305ad1@msapiro>
References: <PC1830200804261134030718d2305ad1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <48137745.2080507@lc-words.com>

Hi there,

Mark Sapiro pisze:

>> I have analized MTA's logs and they have really been sent twice as
>>  separate messages although I requested subscription only once.
> 
> How did you request subscription? Did you send an email to 
> eu.ppl-request, and if so, did it contain two subscribe commands, one
>  in the subject and one in the body?


Time to call it a day! Did the previous version of Mailman (2.1.9_x) 
only checked body for subscription commands? The fact of the matter is 
that indeed I had the word subscribe in both the message subject as well 
as in body...

Anyway, thanks for your incredible support Mark!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot
www.lc-words.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Apr 26 20:50:13 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:50:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscription request sent twice
In-Reply-To: <48137745.2080507@lc-words.com>
Message-ID: <PC18302008042611501307184bd36c9b@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>Time to call it a day! Did the previous version of Mailman (2.1.9_x) 
>only checked body for subscription commands? The fact of the matter is 
>that indeed I had the word subscribe in both the message subject as well 
>as in body...


No.

If you mail to the list-join or list-subscribe address, the message
subject and body are ignored, but if you mail to the list-request
address, both the subject and body can contain commands. It's always
been that way for as long as I've been involved with Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Jan at Bytesmiths.com  Sun Apr 27 08:02:54 2008
From: Jan at Bytesmiths.com (Jan Steinman)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 23:02:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription mail-back failure
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3509.1209203406.12833.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.3509.1209203406.12833.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <E6C8E1F3-591F-4B73-8BD1-B7451FD1AF26@Bytesmiths.com>

I have a hosting client who is seeing intermittent failures of the  
subscription process. The user successfully fills in the subscription  
information, gets the subscription confirmation notice with the link  
and then tries to reply, and gets a bounce:

> 	Permanent Failure:
> 550_5.1.1_<ecovillagenewsletter- 
> request at ecovillagenewsletter.org>:_Recipient
> _address_rejected:_User_unknown_in_virtual_alias_table
> 	Delivery last attempted at Sun, 27 Apr 2008 01:41:20 -0000
> Reporting-MTA: dns; isp.att.net
> Arrival-Date: 27 Apr 2008  1:41:04 +0000
>
> Final-Recipient: rfc822; <ecovillagenewsletter-request at EcovillageNewsletter.org 
> >
> Action: failed
> Status: 5.0.0 550_5.1.1_<ecovillagenewsletter-request at ecovillagenewsletter.org 
> >:_Recipient_address_rejected:_User_unknown_in_virtual_alias_table
> Diagnostic-Code: smtp; Permanent Failure: Other undefined Status
> Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 01:41:20 -0000

Apparently, clicking the link is working, because hundreds of  
subscriptions have succeeded. I can only assume the only ones failing  
are ones that people mail back, rather than clicking the link.

This is a fairly plain-jane installation. EcovillageNewsletter.org is  
defined as a virtual domain. I don't see where I should have  
configured anything special to enable this. Other mailing lists I host  
(also on virtual domains) )aren't having this problem.

Any clues where I should begin digging?


:::: Because the -- all which is on the table begins to address the  
big cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculated, for  
example, is on the table. Whether or not benefits rise based upon wage  
increases or price increases. There's a series of parts of the formula  
that are being considered. And when you couple that, those different  
cost drivers, affecting those -- changing those with personal   
accounts, the idea is to get what has been promised more likely to be  
-- or closer delivered to that has been promised. Does that make any  
sense to you? -- George W. Bush ::::
:::: Jan Steinman http://www.VeggieVanGogh.com ::::



From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Apr 27 17:48:18 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 08:48:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription mail-back failure
In-Reply-To: <E6C8E1F3-591F-4B73-8BD1-B7451FD1AF26@Bytesmiths.com>
Message-ID: <PC1830200804270848180765dfb3a48f@msapiro>

Jan Steinman wrote:

>I have a hosting client who is seeing intermittent failures of the  
>subscription process. The user successfully fills in the subscription  
>information, gets the subscription confirmation notice with the link  
>and then tries to reply, and gets a bounce:
>
>> 	Permanent Failure:
>> 550_5.1.1_<ecovillagenewsletter- 
>> request at ecovillagenewsletter.org>:_Recipient
>> _address_rejected:_User_unknown_in_virtual_alias_table
>> 	Delivery last attempted at Sun, 27 Apr 2008 01:41:20 -0000
>> Reporting-MTA: dns; isp.att.net
>> Arrival-Date: 27 Apr 2008  1:41:04 +0000
>>
>> Final-Recipient: rfc822; <ecovillagenewsletter-request at EcovillageNewsletter.org 
>> >
>> Action: failed
>> Status: 5.0.0 550_5.1.1_<ecovillagenewsletter-request at ecovillagenewsletter.org 
>> >:_Recipient_address_rejected:_User_unknown_in_virtual_alias_table
>> Diagnostic-Code: smtp; Permanent Failure: Other undefined Status
>> Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 01:41:20 -0000
>
>Apparently, clicking the link is working, because hundreds of  
>subscriptions have succeeded. I can only assume the only ones failing  
>are ones that people mail back, rather than clicking the link.
>
>This is a fairly plain-jane installation. EcovillageNewsletter.org is  
>defined as a virtual domain. I don't see where I should have  
>configured anything special to enable this. Other mailing lists I host  
>(also on virtual domains) )aren't having this problem.
>
>Any clues where I should begin digging?


Apparently the MTA has whatever virtual maps/aliases are required to
deliver to <ecovillagenewsletter at ecovillagenewsletter.org> since I
assume the list works, but it is missing those for
<ecovillagenewsletter-request at ecovillagenewsletter.org> and how many
others of <ecovillagenewsletter-admin at ecovillagenewsletter.org>, 
<ecovillagenewsletter-bounces at ecovillagenewsletter.org>, 
<ecovillagenewsletter-confirm at ecovillagenewsletter.org>, 
<ecovillagenewsletter-join at ecovillagenewsletter.org>, 
<ecovillagenewsletter-leave at ecovillagenewsletter.org>, 
<ecovillagenewsletter-owner at ecovillagenewsletter.org>, 
<ecovillagenewsletter-subscribe at ecovillagenewsletter.org> and 
<ecovillagenewsletter-unsubscribe at ecovillagenewsletter.org>, all of
which should be deliverable in a "plain-jane installation".

This is in the MTA configuration and possibly involves Mailman since it
appears that mail.bytesmiths.com is running Postfix and you may be
using Mailman-Postfix integration for automatic alias generation. If
this latter is the case, you need to configure the things discussed in
both sections 6.1.1 and 6.1.2 at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dandrews at visi.com  Mon Apr 28 05:47:00 2008
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 22:47:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Handling Attachments and More
Message-ID: <auto-000048138935@mailfront1.g2host.com>

I have a Sun Cobalt RAQ550 with Mailman 2.1.8 installed, and running 
about 120 lists.  We were having problems with the setup handling 
multi-part messages that contained text and html -- some mail 
programs reproduced stuff twice etc.  Also we need to pass attachments.

On the advice of someone I made some changes, content filtering 
settings below, and while the multi-part thing is a little better, it 
only passes text attachments.  Need to pass .doc etc.

I am obviously not an expert in this stuff, or I wouldn't be 
bothering all of you.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Should Mailman filter the content of list traffic according to the 
settings below? 
<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/admin/nfb-talk/?VARHELP=contentfilter/filter_content>
(Edit 
filter_content<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/admin/nfb-talk/?VARHELP=contentfilter/filter_content>)
No Yes
Remove message attachments that have a matching content type. 
<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/admin/nfb-talk/?VARHELP=contentfilter/filter_mime_types>
(Details for 
filter_mime_types<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/admin/nfb-talk/?VARHELP=contentfilter/filter_mime_types>)
text/html
Remove message attachments that don't have a matching content type. 
Leave this field blank to skip this filter test. 
<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/admin/nfb-talk/?VARHELP=contentfilter/pass_mime_types>
(Details for 
pass_mime_types<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/admin/nfb-talk/?VARHELP=contentfilter/pass_mime_types>)
multipart/alternative message/rfc822 text/plain
Remove message attachments that have a matching filename extension. 
<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/admin/nfb-talk/?VARHELP=contentfilter/filter_filename_extensions>
(Edit 
filter_filename_extensions<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/admin/nfb-talk/?VARHELP=contentfilter/filter_filename_extensions>)
exe bat cmd com pif scr vbs cpl
Remove message attachments that don't have a matching filename 
extension. Leave this field blank to skip this filter test. 
<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/admin/nfb-talk/?VARHELP=contentfilter/pass_filename_extensions>
(Edit 
pass_filename_extensions<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/admin/nfb-talk/?VARHELP=contentfilter/pass_filename_extensions>)
Should Mailman collapse multipart/alternative to its first part 
content? 
<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/admin/nfb-talk/?VARHELP=contentfilter/collapse_alternatives>
(Edit 
collapse_alternatives<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/admin/nfb-talk/?VARHELP=contentfilter/collapse_alternatives>)
No Yes
Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text? This conversion 
happens after MIME attachments have been stripped. 
<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/admin/nfb-talk/?VARHELP=contentfilter/convert_html_to_plaintext>
(Edit 
convert_html_to_plaintext<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/admin/nfb-talk/?VARHELP=contentfilter/convert_html_to_plaintext>)
No Yes
Action to take when a message matches the content filtering rules. 
<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/admin/nfb-talk/?VARHELP=contentfilter/filter_action>
(Details for 
filter_action<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/admin/nfb-talk/?VARHELP=contentfilter/filter_action>)
Discard Reject Forward to List Owner Preserve



From gubitz at netcologne.de  Mon Apr 28 10:09:30 2008
From: gubitz at netcologne.de (Hans Gubitz)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:09:30 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + Exim4
Message-ID: <20080428080930.GB17819@redwitz79.de>

Hallo,

I started with mailman and exim4 on Debian testing.

Mail to a list arrives the server, but it is not answered.

In exim4/mainlog I read:
2008-04-28 10:00:06 1JqOHO-0003gP-UE == |/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
post administration <administration at hgk1.gym-nippes.dnsalias.org>
R=system_aliases defer (-30): pipe_transport unset in system_aliases
router

Do you have any hints to fix exim4?

Regards
Hans

-- 
Hans Gubitz <gubitz at netcologne.de>

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From john at wa9als.com  Mon Apr 28 15:11:15 2008
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:11:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Send to select subscribers
Message-ID: <200804281311.m3SDBFXQ008722@mail844.megamailservers.com>

I have a user asking if there is a way to send to selected list subscribers?  He wants to send a message to about 100 subscribers.  I don't think Mailman can do that from the members web page.  Any other ideas?

Thanks!

- John

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr 28 16:48:37 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:48:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Send to select subscribers
In-Reply-To: <200804281311.m3SDBFXQ008722@mail844.megamailservers.com>
Message-ID: <PC18302008042807483700938c9f3142@msapiro>

John Fleming wrote:

>I have a user asking if there is a way to send to selected list subscribers?  He wants to send a message to about 100 subscribers.  I don't think Mailman can do that from the members web page.  Any other ideas?


He could set up a separate list, or if there are only a few
'non-recipients', he could disable their delivery, post and then
re-enable their delivery. If he didn't want the post archived, he can
supress archiving by putting an "X-No-Archive:" or an "X-Archive: no"
header in the post. It has to be a real header; a pseudo header in the
body won't work.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From carloswill at gmail.com  Mon Apr 28 17:16:03 2008
From: carloswill at gmail.com (Carlos Williams)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:16:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Migration
Message-ID: <d80f793f0804280816t792ef1a9t53b0132998eaea4@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all!

I have built a new email server on my LAN and would like to move over
my Mailman content including archives over to my new email server and
was wondering if this is a common procedure / task? I am moving from a
RHEL4 to a RHEL5 server so not much is really too different in regards
to location and files. Is there a guide or write up the Mailman
community recommend I follow to perform this task?

I am currently running "mailman-2.1.5.1-34.rhel4.6" on my production
server and my new server I plan to migrate to is running
"mailman-2.1.9-2".

Thanks for any assistance and tips!

Carlos

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Apr 28 17:27:19 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:27:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Send to select subscribers
In-Reply-To: <200804281311.m3SDBFXQ008722@mail844.megamailservers.com>
References: <200804281311.m3SDBFXQ008722@mail844.megamailservers.com>
Message-ID: <4815ECD7.9060808@shub-internet.org>

John Fleming wrote:

> I have a user asking if there is a way to send to selected list
> subscribers?  He wants to send a message to about 100 subscribers.  I
> don't think Mailman can do that from the members web page.  Any other
> ideas?

Set up a topic, subscribe those users to that topic, then use the topic when 
sending out the message.  That's the only way that Mailman can address a 
subgroup, without setting up an umbrella list and various child lists.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr 28 18:08:28 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:08:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + Exim4
In-Reply-To: <20080428080930.GB17819@redwitz79.de>
Message-ID: <PC183020080428090828028122ee3ff5@msapiro>

Hans Gubitz wrote:
>
>I started with mailman and exim4 on Debian testing.
>
>Mail to a list arrives the server, but it is not answered.
>
>In exim4/mainlog I read:
>2008-04-28 10:00:06 1JqOHO-0003gP-UE =3D=3D |/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
>post administration <administration at hgk1.gym-nippes.dnsalias.org>
>R=3Dsystem_aliases defer (-30): pipe_transport unset in system_aliases
>router
>
>Do you have any hints to fix exim4?


This is an Exim question, not a Mailman question, but since you are
here, if you have a more or less standard Exim configuration, you are
missing

  pipe_transport = address_pipe

from the definition of the system_aliases router.

However, with Exim, you don't need to use aliases for Mailman. See
<http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html> for instructions on setting
this up.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From michael_lynn at ml.com  Mon Apr 28 18:11:21 2008
From: michael_lynn at ml.com (Lynn, Michael (A&E))
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:11:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Incorrect Hostname Appearing in mailto address
Message-ID: <A31A6594B84121479A71D1195BBA088F06094B@mlnyc20mb054.amrs.win.ml.com>

This may be an issue I need to post to a sendmail list... but I'll start
here.

I have configured mailman and everything is up and working
fantastically... with one issue:

Mails sent to the list appear with the wrong hostname in the TO: field
of the email.

Let's call the host's primary DNS entry "uglyhostname" and we'll call
the desired hostname alias for mailman "lists".

A user can send mail to "lists.internal.domain.com" and it gets to the
host and is processed properly by the aliases and mailman and delivered
to the list.   However, users viewing the message see:

To: listname at uglyhostname.location.domain.com

I have sendmail configured to masquerade as follows:
DMlists.internal.domain.com

And I've even changed the hostname on the server using
/etc/sysconfig/network
HOSTNAME=lists.internal.domain.com

Here's a snip from my mm_cfg:
--8<--
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'lists.internal.domain.com'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.internal.domain.com'

# Because we've overriden the virtual hosts above add_virtualhost
# MUST be called after they have been defined.
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
-->8--

Any ideas on how I can ensure that uglyhostname is not included in my
lists mails?

Thank you in advance.

Regards,
Mike
--------------------------------------------------------

This message w/attachments (message) may be privileged, confidential or proprietary, and if you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender, do not use or share it and delete it. Unless specifically indicated, this message is not an offer to sell or a solicitation of any investment products or other financial product or service, an official confirmation of any transaction, or an official statement of Merrill Lynch. Subject to applicable law, Merrill Lynch may monitor, review and retain e-communications (EC) traveling through its networks/systems. The laws of the country of each sender/recipient may impact the handling of EC, and EC may be archived, supervised and produced in countries other than the country in which you are located. This message cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free. This message is subject to terms available at the following link: http://www.ml.com/e-communications_terms/. By messaging with Merrill Lynch you consent to the foregoing.
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From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr 28 19:19:10 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:19:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Handling Attachments and More
In-Reply-To: <auto-000048138935@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <PC18302008042810191004063c2dc8a0@msapiro>

David Andrews wrote:

>I have a Sun Cobalt RAQ550 with Mailman 2.1.8 installed, and running 
>about 120 lists.  We were having problems with the setup handling 
>multi-part messages that contained text and html -- some mail 
>programs reproduced stuff twice etc.  Also we need to pass attachments.
>
>On the advice of someone I made some changes, content filtering 
>settings below, and while the multi-part thing is a little better, it 
>only passes text attachments.  Need to pass .doc etc.
>
>I am obviously not an expert in this stuff, or I wouldn't be 
>bothering all of you.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.


Your copy/paste of the web page is missing some information, namely,
which radio buttons are selected.


>Should Mailman filter the content of list traffic according to the 
>settings below? 
[...]
>No Yes

I assume this is Yes


>Remove message attachments that have a matching content type. 
[...]
>text/html


Generally, you don't want entries in both filter_mime_types and
pass_mime_types, since if you have anything in pass_mime_types,
everything else will be filtered whether it's here or not.


>Remove message attachments that don't have a matching content type. 
[...]
>multipart/alternative message/rfc822 text/plain


So you are accepting only elemental text/plain messages and text/plain
parts from multipart/alternative parts. This drops everything that
isn't text/plain and also drops text/plain subparts from other
multipart types.

For example, if you have a message with structure

multipart/mixed
    multipart/alternative
        text/plain
        text/html
    application/msword

which is a common structure for a message with an attached ms-word
file, you delete everything because you don't accept multipart/mixed.


What you probably want here is something like

multipart
message/rfc822
text/plain
application/msword
application/pdf
(etc.)


>Remove message attachments that have a matching filename extension. 
[...]
>exe bat cmd com pif scr vbs cpl

OK


[...]
>Should Mailman collapse multipart/alternative to its first part 
>content? 
[...]
>No Yes


This is probably irrelevant in most cases if you don't accept
text/html, but unless you want to actuall accept and pass say both
text/plain and text/html alternatives, set this to Yes.


>Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text? This conversion 
>happens after MIME attachments have been stripped. 
[...]
>No Yes


This should be Yes, only if you accept text/html, and you set
collapse_alternatives to Yes, and you want remaining html parts
converted to plain text.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr 28 19:27:03 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:27:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Incorrect Hostname Appearing in mailto address
In-Reply-To: <A31A6594B84121479A71D1195BBA088F06094B@mlnyc20mb054.amrs.win.ml.com>
Message-ID: <PC1830200804281027030093178e1b60@msapiro>

Lynn, Michael \(A&E\) wrote:
>
>Mails sent to the list appear with the wrong hostname in the TO: field
>of the email.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.022.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Apr 28 19:51:50 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:51:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Incorrect Hostname Appearing in mailto address
In-Reply-To: <A31A6594B84121479A71D1195BBA088F06094B@mlnyc20mb054.amrs.win.ml.com>
References: <A31A6594B84121479A71D1195BBA088F06094B@mlnyc20mb054.amrs.win.ml.com>
Message-ID: <48160EB6.2070907@shub-internet.org>

Lynn, Michael (A&E) wrote:

> Let's call the host's primary DNS entry "uglyhostname" and we'll call
> the desired hostname alias for mailman "lists".

And you set up "lists" to be a CNAME alias record pointing to 
"uglyhostname", right?  Well, don't do that.

Make sure that "lists" resolves directly to the correct IP address, and that 
the reverse DNS for that IP address also points back to "lists" as well as 
"uglyhostname".


Search the archives for "CNAME" if you need more details as to why this is 
the case.  There might also be a FAQ Wizard entry on this subject.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr 28 19:51:58 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:51:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Migration
In-Reply-To: <d80f793f0804280816t792ef1a9t53b0132998eaea4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1830200804281051580015483feb09@msapiro>

Carlos Williams wrote:
>
>I have built a new email server on my LAN and would like to move over
>my Mailman content including archives over to my new email server and
>was wondering if this is a common procedure / task? I am moving from a
>RHEL4 to a RHEL5 server so not much is really too different in regards
>to location and files. Is there a guide or write up the Mailman
>community recommend I follow to perform this task?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp>
and the links in the Note: in the 3rd paragraph.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From michael_lynn at ml.com  Mon Apr 28 19:58:54 2008
From: michael_lynn at ml.com (Lynn, Michael (A&E))
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:58:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Incorrect Hostname Appearing in mailto address
In-Reply-To: <48160EB6.2070907@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <A31A6594B84121479A71D1195BBA088F06094F@mlnyc20mb054.amrs.win.ml.com>

Correct - thanks for the info.

The issue is that my corporate host naming standards dictate that
hostnames must never, ever make any sense when you first read them.
Logical names for hosts are relegated to CNAME status.

Thanks again.

Regards,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at shub-internet.org] 
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 1:52 PM
To: Lynn, Michael (A&E)
Cc: Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Incorrect Hostname Appearing in mailto
address


Lynn, Michael (A&E) wrote:

> Let's call the host's primary DNS entry "uglyhostname" and we'll call
> the desired hostname alias for mailman "lists".

And you set up "lists" to be a CNAME alias record pointing to 
"uglyhostname", right?  Well, don't do that.

Make sure that "lists" resolves directly to the correct IP address, and
that 
the reverse DNS for that IP address also points back to "lists" as well
as 
"uglyhostname".


Search the archives for "CNAME" if you need more details as to why this
is 
the case.  There might also be a FAQ Wizard entry on this subject.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
--------------------------------------------------------

This message w/attachments (message) may be privileged, confidential or proprietary, and if you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender, do not use or share it and delete it. Unless specifically indicated, this message is not an offer to sell or a solicitation of any investment products or other financial product or service, an official confirmation of any transaction, or an official statement of Merrill Lynch. Subject to applicable law, Merrill Lynch may monitor, review and retain e-communications (EC) traveling through its networks/systems. The laws of the country of each sender/recipient may impact the handling of EC, and EC may be archived, supervised and produced in countries other than the country in which you are located. This message cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free. This message is subject to terms available at the following link: http://www.ml.com/e-communications_terms/. By messaging with Merrill Lynch you consent to the foregoing.
--------------------------------------------------------

From bergenpeak at comcast.net  Mon Apr 28 22:01:22 2008
From: bergenpeak at comcast.net (bergenpeak at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 20:01:22 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] configuring sender account so that mail only gets
	delivered to archive
Message-ID: <042820082001.7075.48162D120009A78200001BA32205889116050E0A9F020A099D0A0D@comcast.net>

Is there a way to configure a mail man distro so that when mail comes in from a specific user, the mail is accepted and put into the archive but this mail does not get sent to the actual distro?

Thanks

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr 28 22:14:38 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:14:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] configuring sender account so that mail only
	getsdelivered to archive
In-Reply-To: <042820082001.7075.48162D120009A78200001BA32205889116050E0A9F020A099D0A0D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC18302008042813143804536b4f9d2b@msapiro>

bergenpeak at comcast.net wrote:

>Is there a way to configure a mail man distro so that when mail comes in from a specific user, the mail is accepted and put into the archive but this mail does not get sent to the actual distro?


Only with something like a custom handler
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.067.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bergenpeak at comcast.net  Mon Apr 28 23:10:34 2008
From: bergenpeak at comcast.net (bergenpeak at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:10:34 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] configuring sender account so that mail only
	getsdelivered to archive
Message-ID: <042820082110.6387.48163D4A00025965000018F32213575333050E0A9F020A099D0A0D@comcast.net>

Thanks for the pointer.  

So I'm thinking about doing the " bin/config_list -i input_file test-list" to define a custom pipeline for the lists that I'd like this archive only behavior.

I've created a file called "input_file" that contains the "GLOBAL_PIPELINE = [" and ends with "'ToOutgoing', ]"

Questions:

1) Do I need to start this file with any "import" info, etc or is extracting the above from Defaults.py and nothing else suffient?

2) Suggestions on where in this pipeline I add in this special Handler?   Should I define the new handler just before "ToOutgoing"?   (I'm assuming the "ToOutgoing" is the mechanism that actually causes the mail to be sent to the distro)

3) Is there an existing handler I can pattern match off that shows how to match info in the "from" field?

4) If I understand the pipelining, it seems as if this new handler just needs to match on the sender and then tell mailman to stop processing in the pipeline because the archiving happens above in the pipeline with the ToArchive.py handler.   In the new handler, what value should be returned to say that no further processing should be performed?

5) It seems I could just muck with the existing ToArchive.py to see if the mail is from this one sender and just return a "don't process further values" and not bother a new handler and tweaking the per list pipeline configs.   Thoughts?

Thanks



-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 

> bergenpeak at comcast.net wrote: 
> 
> >Is there a way to configure a mail man distro so that when mail comes in from a 
> specific user, the mail is accepted and put into the archive but this mail does 
> not get sent to the actual distro? 
> 
> 
> Only with something like a custom handler 
> . 
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, 
> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan 
> 

From jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu  Tue Apr 29 21:10:51 2008
From: jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu (Jewel Makda)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:10:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests and Backups
Message-ID: <481772BB.9040402@washburn.edu>

Hey Mailman gurus!
I have a questions and am hoping someone can explain it to me.  I run 
backups on the lists on my Mailman server. One of the directories I tar 
up is:
/usr/local/mailman/lists/*
The size of the tar file was about 34KB every week.  All of a sudden 
when I ran my last backup it was 7KB.  The only change I made was I 
changed my cron file to send digests out daily, before this was disabled 
and digests were only being sent out when they reached their size. Could 
this be the cause of the small tar file since digests are now going out 
daily? 

Thanks,

-- 
JM



From honneus at cisco.com  Wed Apr 30 00:42:51 2008
From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus))
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:42:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with check_perms script
Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D85EF8DF@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com>

Hi,
 
I am trying to perform the check installation step in the Mailman
Installation Guide.  I am receiving an error when I run the check_perms
script from within my installation folder.
 
[root at 157226-mail mailman-2.1.10]# bin/check_perms
-bash: bin/check_perms: @PYTHON@: bad interpreter: No such file or
directory

I installed Python 2.4.4 and it seems to be in the path as I can execute
this version correctly.  The Mailman installation also seems to have run
fine and I followed all the instructions prior to this step.  
 
I can't seem to find the line in the check_perms script that is failing
either as the shell does not report a line number.
 
Please offer some advice for areas to troubleshoot as I am not all that
familiar with Mailman and am not a linux guru either.
 
Thanks in advance!
 
Bill


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 30 00:53:18 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:53:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests and Backups
In-Reply-To: <481772BB.9040402@washburn.edu>
Message-ID: <PC183020080429155318007812ae0960@msapiro>

Jewel Makda wrote:

>I have a questions and am hoping someone can explain it to me.  I run 
>backups on the lists on my Mailman server. One of the directories I tar 
>up is:
>/usr/local/mailman/lists/*
>The size of the tar file was about 34KB every week.  All of a sudden 
>when I ran my last backup it was 7KB.  The only change I made was I 
>changed my cron file to send digests out daily, before this was disabled 
>and digests were only being sent out when they reached their size. Could 
>this be the cause of the small tar file since digests are now going out 
>daily? 


Absolutely.

The messages for the next digest are stored in
lists/listname/digest.mbox. When you were triggering digests on size
only, these files were averaging half their max size. Now that you are
sending digests daily, they are smaller.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 30 01:09:50 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:09:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with check_perms script
In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D85EF8DF@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <PC183020080429160950009312ae098f@msapiro>

Bill Honneus wrote:
> 
>I am trying to perform the check installation step in the Mailman
>Installation Guide.  I am receiving an error when I run the check_perms
>script from within my installation folder.
> 
>[root at 157226-mail mailman-2.1.10]# bin/check_perms
>-bash: bin/check_perms: @PYTHON@: bad interpreter: No such file or
>directory


You are trying to run an unconfigured check_perms. I am guessing
mailman-2.1.10 is the directory in which you unpacked the tarball and
ran configure and make.

You need to run 'make install' if you haven't already, and run
bin/check_perms from the 'prefix' directory (/usr/local/mailman by
default).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From honneus at cisco.com  Wed Apr 30 16:30:31 2008
From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus))
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 10:30:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with check_perms script
In-Reply-To: <PC183020080429160950009312ae098f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D85EFAAA@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com>

Thanks for the clarification, Mark.  This worked!

Bill 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 7:10 PM
To: Bill Honneus (honneus); mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Problem with check_perms script

Bill Honneus wrote:
> 
>I am trying to perform the check installation step in the Mailman 
>Installation Guide.  I am receiving an error when I run the check_perms

>script from within my installation folder.
> 
>[root at 157226-mail mailman-2.1.10]# bin/check_perms
>-bash: bin/check_perms: @PYTHON@: bad interpreter: No such file or 
>directory


You are trying to run an unconfigured check_perms. I am guessing
mailman-2.1.10 is the directory in which you unpacked the tarball and
ran configure and make.

You need to run 'make install' if you haven't already, and run
bin/check_perms from the 'prefix' directory (/usr/local/mailman by
default).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From sfantar at snurf.info  Wed Apr 30 18:16:08 2008
From: sfantar at snurf.info (Shams Fantar)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:16:08 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installing mailman and sendmail
Message-ID: <48189B48.3050305@snurf.info>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi,

I'm installing mailman, I created the first mailing list[1], it works
fine. So, it's possible to subcribe to the list, that works, but it
isn't possible to send mails to the mailing list. It's a probleme with
sendmail, I'm reading the documentation of mailman[2], but the output of
the command "grep smrsh /etc/mail/sendmail.cf" is empty (sendmail is
installed). Do you have any ideas? And when I send a mail to the list, I
see nothing in log... In conclusion, mailman nearly works, there is
"just" a problem with sendmail.

[1] : http://lists.sce.snurf.info/listinfo/sce-project
[2] : http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node32.html

Regards,
- --
Shams Fantar (Website : http://snurf.info)
My public GPG Key : http://snurf.info/sfantar.gpg
? A book is like a garden carried in the pocket. ?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFIGJtI5ChwvXmalbURAgPTAKCawFt3Mpw7KfdcRoP4FcG1ojJ6UwCg9hfT
LFF4Awe1+5hyYWRTAhCdvyk=
=c++D
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Apr 30 18:45:55 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:45:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installing mailman and sendmail
In-Reply-To: <48189B48.3050305@snurf.info>
References: <48189B48.3050305@snurf.info>
Message-ID: <200804301639.m3UGdAPN011299@newbox.eroded.org>

Shams Fantar wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm installing mailman, I created the first mailing list[1], it works
>fine. So, it's possible to subcribe to the list, that works, but it
>isn't possible to send mails to the mailing list. It's a probleme with
>sendmail, I'm reading the documentation of mailman[2], but the output of
>the command "grep smrsh /etc/mail/sendmail.cf" is empty (sendmail is
>installed). Do you have any ideas? And when I send a mail to the list, I
>see nothing in log... In conclusion, mailman nearly works, there is
>"just" a problem with sendmail.
>
>[1] : http://lists.sce.snurf.info/listinfo/sce-project
>[2] : http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node32.html
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Did you add the list aliases for the list to the /etc/aliases file 
and then run newaliases?

When you created the list, a set of aliases for it should have been 
provided as output from the newlist script or via the web interface. 
Those have to be set up properly so sendmail knows what to do with 
the addresses associated to the list.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 30 18:53:43 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:53:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installing mailman and sendmail
In-Reply-To: <48189B48.3050305@snurf.info>
Message-ID: <PC18302008043009534301578a42ea88@msapiro>

Shams Fantar wrote:
>
>I'm installing mailman, I created the first mailing list[1], it works
>fine. So, it's possible to subcribe to the list, that works, but it
>isn't possible to send mails to the mailing list. It's a probleme with
>sendmail, I'm reading the documentation of mailman[2], but the output of
>the command "grep smrsh /etc/mail/sendmail.cf" is empty (sendmail is
>installed). Do you have any ideas? And when I send a mail to the list, I
>see nothing in log... In conclusion, mailman nearly works, there is
>"just" a problem with sendmail.
>
>[1] : http://lists.sce.snurf.info/listinfo/sce-project
>[2] : http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node32.html


What's in sendmail's logs for the message to the Mailman list?

Is Mailman running?

Are the messages getting to Mailman's qfiles/in/ queue?

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From sfantar at snurf.info  Wed Apr 30 18:55:39 2008
From: sfantar at snurf.info (Shams Fantar)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:55:39 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installing mailman and sendmail
In-Reply-To: <200804301639.m3UGdAPN011299@newbox.eroded.org>
References: <48189B48.3050305@snurf.info>
	<200804301639.m3UGdAPN011299@newbox.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <4818A48B.9050604@snurf.info>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


Dragon wrote:

>> Did you add the list aliases for the list to the /etc/aliases file and
> > then run newaliases?

Yes, I did. But when I run newaliases :

WARNING: local host name (;; connection timed out; no servers could be
reached) is not qualified; see cf/README: WHO AM I?
/etc/mail/aliases: 33 aliases, longest 56 bytes, 1450 bytes total

Therefore, I've looked for a solution, I've found few answers. but no
solution works...

>>
>> When you created the list, a set of aliases for it should have been
>> provided as output from the newlist script or via the web interface.
>> Those have to be set up properly so sendmail knows what to do with te
>> addresses associated to the list.

Okay.

> >
> > Dragon
> >

Thanks,


PS : I'm running debian lenny/sid.


- --
Shams Fantar (Website : http://snurf.info)
My public GPG Key : http://snurf.info/sfantar.gpg
? A book is like a garden carried in the pocket. ?
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=bJqv
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Apr 30 19:10:55 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:10:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installing mailman and sendmail
In-Reply-To: <4818A48B.9050604@snurf.info>
References: <48189B48.3050305@snurf.info>	<200804301639.m3UGdAPN011299@newbox.eroded.org>
	<4818A48B.9050604@snurf.info>
Message-ID: <4818A81F.5090005@shub-internet.org>

Shams Fantar wrote:

> WARNING: local host name (;; connection timed out; no servers could be
> reached) is not qualified; see cf/README: WHO AM I?

This is a sendmail problem.  You need to get your sendmail.cf fixed.

I don't think there's much we can do to help you with this -- I'd suggest 
making use of the resources provided by your platform vendor for finding and 
fixing this problem.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Apr 30 19:13:20 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 10:13:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installing mailman and sendmail
In-Reply-To: <4818A48B.9050604@snurf.info>
References: <48189B48.3050305@snurf.info>
	<200804301639.m3UGdAPN011299@newbox.eroded.org>
	<4818A48B.9050604@snurf.info>
Message-ID: <200804301706.m3UH6Zbt011678@newbox.eroded.org>

Shams Fantar sent the message below at 09:55 4/30/2008:
>Dragon wrote:
>
> >> Did you add the list aliases for the list to the /etc/aliases file and
> > > then run newaliases?
>
>Yes, I did. But when I run newaliases :
>
>WARNING: local host name (;; connection timed out; no servers could be
>reached) is not qualified; see cf/README: WHO AM I?
>/etc/mail/aliases: 33 aliases, longest 56 bytes, 1450 bytes total

OK, I don't know this for certain, but that seems to me that sendmail 
is either not configured correctly or not running at all. 
Unfortunately, I am no expert on sendmail and I can't give any 
specific help on setting it up without digging into the 
documentation. But you can try a few things here to see what is going on.

Are you able to send and receive mail from this box at all?

What do you get after running the following (you will probably need 
to be root):

ps aux | grep sendmail

It should produce something like this (and possibly more entries):

root     31013  0.0  0.2   9284  1196 ?        Ss   Mar29   2:44 
sendmail: accepting connections

You mentioned earlier you could not find your sendmail.cf file, try:

find / -name *.cf -print

>Therefore, I've looked for a solution, I've found few answers. but no
>solution works...

I think you need to make certain that sendmail is set up correctly 
and can process mail before going forward with trying to troubleshoot mailman.

>PS : I'm running debian lenny/sid.

It may be a good idea to check with debian support resources to help 
get this sorted out. It seems like every distribution does things a 
little bit different and they all seem to have their own ideas on 
what are the proper locations for things and the proper way to start 
daemons, etc.



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From bates at telehouse.com  Wed Apr 30 19:09:01 2008
From: bates at telehouse.com (Richard Bates)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:09:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possibly a simple question about delivery
Message-ID: <E6738D50-1D27-4264-AB51-84EAEB7C5BB8@telehouse.com>

I am testing a postfix mail server with mailman
My question/problem is

on normal delivery mail gets delivered to
/home/user/Maildir
for imap use.

when mailman delivers the mail it sends it to
/var/mail

why and how do i fix it?

Below is my postfix/main.cf
=====================================================
=== CLIP postfix/main.cf
home_mailbox = Maildir/
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
command_directory = /usr/local/sbin
daemon_directory = /usr/local/libexec/postfix
mail_owner = postfix
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 450
debug_peer_level = 2
debugger_command =
	PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin; export PATH; (echo cont;
	echo where) | gdb $daemon_directory/$process_name $process_id 2>&1
	>$config_directory/$process_name.$process_id.log & sleep 5
sendmail_path = /usr/local/sbin/sendmail
newaliases_path = /usr/local/bin/newaliases
mailq_path = /usr/local/bin/mailq
setgid_group = maildrop
#MAIL_GID = nobody

manpage_directory = /usr/local/man
sample_directory = /usr/local/etc/postfix
readme_directory = no
alias_maps = hash:/usr/local/etc/postfix/aliases,hash:/usr/local/ 
mailman/data/aliases
recipient_delimiter = +
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550


myhostname = test.telehouse.com
mydomain = test.telehouse.com
mydestination = test.telehouse.com,172.18.1.101

disable_vrfy_command = yes
mailbox_size_limit = 512000000
message_size_limit = 10485770
masquerade_domains = $mydomain
masquerade_exceptions = root

broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
smtpd_helo_required = yes
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8
smtpd_sender_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, reject_rhsbl_sender  
sbl.spamhaus.org
smtpd_client_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, reject_rbl_client  
sbl.spamhaus.org
smtpd_recipient_limit = 10000

#always_bcc = mailmanager

# SASL SUPPORT FOR CLIENTS
smtpd_sasl_authenticated_header = yes
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
smtpd_sasl_security_options = noanonymous
smtpd_sasl_local_domain = $myhostname
smtpd_recipient_restrictions =
         permit_sasl_authenticated,
         permit_mynetworks,
         reject_rhsbl_recipient sbl.spamhaus.org,
         reject_unauth_destination

#### END postfix/main.cf Clip

From sfantar at snurf.info  Wed Apr 30 19:22:29 2008
From: sfantar at snurf.info (Shams Fantar)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:22:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installing mailman and sendmail
In-Reply-To: <200804301706.m3UH6Zbt011678@newbox.eroded.org>
References: <48189B48.3050305@snurf.info>	<200804301639.m3UGdAPN011299@newbox.eroded.org>	<4818A48B.9050604@snurf.info>
	<200804301706.m3UH6Zbt011678@newbox.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <4818AAD5.3070206@snurf.info>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Dragon wrote:

> 
> OK, I don't know this for certain, but that seems to me that sendmail is
> either not configured correctly or not running at all. Unfortunately, I
> am no expert on sendmail and I can't give any specific help on setting
> it up without digging into the documentation. But you can try a few
> things here to see what is going on.
> 
> Are you able to send and receive mail from this box at all?
> 
> What do you get after running the following (you will probably need to
> be root):
> 
> ps aux | grep sendmail
> 
> It should produce something like this (and possibly more entries):
> 
> root     31013  0.0  0.2   9284  1196 ?        Ss   Mar29   2:44
> sendmail: accepting connections

Yes, sendmail is running.

> 
> You mentioned earlier you could not find your sendmail.cf file, try:
> 
> find / -name *.cf -print

No, I didn't say that (because sendmail.cf exists), I just said that
with "grep smrsh /etc/mail/sendmail.cf", I'm getting nothing with grep,
so, "smrsh" isn't in this file.


> 
> I think you need to make certain that sendmail is set up correctly and
> can process mail before going forward with trying to troubleshoot mailman.

Yes, I think it's just a problem with sendmail (or with mailman).

> 
>> PS : I'm running debian lenny/sid.
> 
> It may be a good idea to check with debian support resources to help get
> this sorted out. It seems like every distribution does things a little
> bit different and they all seem to have their own ideas on what are the
> proper locations for things and the proper way to start daemons, etc.
> 

Ok, if I don't manage to fixe the problem, I'll ask for helping on the
debian mailing list.

- --
Shams Fantar (Website : http://snurf.info)
My public GPG Key : http://snurf.info/sfantar.gpg
? A book is like a garden carried in the pocket. ?
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From sfantar at snurf.info  Wed Apr 30 19:33:09 2008
From: sfantar at snurf.info (Shams Fantar)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:33:09 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installing mailman and sendmail
In-Reply-To: <PC18302008043009534301578a42ea88@msapiro>
References: <PC18302008043009534301578a42ea88@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4818AD55.8010005@snurf.info>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> > Shams Fantar wrote:
>> >> I'm installing mailman, I created the first mailing list[1], it works
>> >> fine. So, it's possible to subcribe to the list, that works, but it
>> >> isn't possible to send mails to the mailing list. It's a probleme with
>> >> sendmail, I'm reading the documentation of mailman[2], but the
output of
>> >> the command "grep smrsh /etc/mail/sendmail.cf" is empty (sendmail is
>> >> installed). Do you have any ideas? And when I send a mail to the
list, I
>> >> see nothing in log... In conclusion, mailman nearly works, there is
>> >> "just" a problem with sendmail.
>> >>
>> >> [1] : http://lists.sce.snurf.info/listinfo/sce-project
>> >> [2] : http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node32.html
> >
> >
> > What's in sendmail's logs for the message to the Mailman list?
> >

Nothing in syslog, mail.log and in /var/log/mailman about sending mails
on the created list/the problem.

> > Is Mailman running?

Yes.


> >
> > Are the messages getting to Mailman's qfiles/in/ queue?
> >
> > See
> > <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>.
> >

I tried the solutions of the page, but no solution works.

=> grep mailman /etc/aliases
sce-project:              "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post sce-project"
sce-project-admin:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin sce-project"
sce-project-bounces:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces
sce-project"
sce-project-confirm:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm
sce-project"
sce-project-join:         "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join sce-project"
sce-project-leave:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave sce-project"
sce-project-owner:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner sce-project"
sce-project-request:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request
sce-project"
sce-project-subscribe:    "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe
sce-project"
sce-project-unsubscribe:  "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe
sce-project"

- --
Shams Fantar (Website : http://snurf.info)
My public GPG Key : http://snurf.info/sfantar.gpg
? A book is like a garden carried in the pocket. ?
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From gubitz at netcologne.de  Wed Apr 30 20:02:24 2008
From: gubitz at netcologne.de (Hans Gubitz)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:02:24 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] local ip in links
Message-ID: <20080430180224.GA6017@redwitz79.de>

Hi,

Overview of all ... mailing links 
points here to the local ip of the server, where all other links point
to the right url.

How can I change that?

Hans
-- 
Hans Gubitz <gubitz at netcologne.de>

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From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Apr 30 20:17:40 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:17:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installing mailman and sendmail
In-Reply-To: <48189B48.3050305@snurf.info>
References: <48189B48.3050305@snurf.info>
Message-ID: <4818B7C4.6060307@shub-internet.org>

Shams Fantar wrote:

>                                                    It's a probleme with
> sendmail, I'm reading the documentation of mailman[2], but the output of
> the command "grep smrsh /etc/mail/sendmail.cf" is empty (sendmail is
> installed).

Okay, so you acknowledge that this is a sendmail problem, therefore it seems 
to me that you should either be using the resources provided by your OS 
vendor to resolve this issue, or you should be using sendmail-related 
resources to resolve this issue.  In either event, I don't think we can help 
you there.

But I am curious as to why you would be looking for smrsh in the sendmail.cf 
and why you would think that this would be related to the issues you're having.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Apr 30 21:04:17 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:04:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installing mailman and sendmail
In-Reply-To: <4818B7C4.6060307@shub-internet.org>
References: <48189B48.3050305@snurf.info> <4818B7C4.6060307@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <200804301857.m3UIvVrZ013135@newbox.eroded.org>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>Shams Fantar wrote:
>
>>                                                    It's a probleme with
>>sendmail, I'm reading the documentation of mailman[2], but the output of
>>the command "grep smrsh /etc/mail/sendmail.cf" is empty (sendmail is
>>installed).
>
>Okay, so you acknowledge that this is a sendmail problem, therefore 
>it seems to me that you should either be using the resources 
>provided by your OS vendor to resolve this issue, or you should be 
>using sendmail-related resources to resolve this issue.  In either 
>event, I don't think we can help you there.
>
>But I am curious as to why you would be looking for smrsh in the 
>sendmail.cf and why you would think that this would be related to 
>the issues you're having.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

I am pretty certain he is referring to this:

http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node32.html

But the error message he got when he executed newaliases leads me to 
believe there is something else that is wrong there. So yeah, I agree 
with you Brad that he would be better served with getting help on a 
sendmail related forum or one for his OS.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From sfantar at snurf.info  Wed Apr 30 21:36:34 2008
From: sfantar at snurf.info (Shams Fantar)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:36:34 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installing mailman and sendmail
In-Reply-To: <200804301857.m3UIvVrZ013135@newbox.eroded.org>
References: <48189B48.3050305@snurf.info> <4818B7C4.6060307@shub-internet.org>
	<200804301857.m3UIvVrZ013135@newbox.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <4818CA42.9080108@snurf.info>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Dragon wrote:
> Brad Knowles wrote:
>> Shams Fantar wrote:
>>
>>>                                                    It's a probleme with
>>> sendmail, I'm reading the documentation of mailman[2], but the output of
>>> the command "grep smrsh /etc/mail/sendmail.cf" is empty (sendmail is
>>> installed).
>>
>> Okay, so you acknowledge that this is a sendmail problem, therefore it
>> seems to me that you should either be using the resources provided by
>> your OS vendor to resolve this issue, or you should be using
>> sendmail-related resources to resolve this issue.  In either event, I
>> don't think we can help you there.
>>
>> But I am curious as to why you would be looking for smrsh in the
>> sendmail.cf and why you would think that this would be related to the
>> issues you're having.
> ---------------- End original message. ---------------------
> 
> I am pretty certain he is referring to this:
> 
> http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node32.html
> 
> But the error message he got when he executed newaliases leads me to
> believe there is something else that is wrong there. So yeah, I agree
> with you Brad that he would be better served with getting help on a
> sendmail related forum or one for his OS.
> 
> Dragon


Ok, I'm going to ask for help at sendmail.

Thank you for your help.

- --
Shams Fantar (Website : http://snurf.info)
My public GPG Key : http://snurf.info/sfantar.gpg
? A book is like a garden carried in the pocket. ?
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From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 30 22:20:07 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:20:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installing mailman and sendmail
In-Reply-To: <4818AD55.8010005@snurf.info>
Message-ID: <PC18302008043013200704218487562c@msapiro>

Shams Fantar wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> > What's in sendmail's logs for the message to the Mailman list?
>> >
>
>Nothing in syslog, mail.log and in /var/log/mailman about sending mails
>on the created list/the problem.


If there's really nothing in mail.log regarding a post you send to a
mailing list, either sendmail is completely non-functioning or the
post isn't even getting to this sendmail in the first place.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 30 22:37:15 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:37:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] local ip in links
In-Reply-To: <20080430180224.GA6017@redwitz79.de>
Message-ID: <PC183020080430133715076523a2ba0c@msapiro>

Hans Gubitz wrote:
>
>Overview of all ... mailing links
>points here to the local ip of the server, where all other links point
>to the right url.


Do you mean that the hostname in the above text is the IP as in

 Overview of all 111.111.111.111 mailing lists?

If that's what you mean, that comes from the list's host_name attribute
("Host name this list prefers for email." near the bottom of the
list's General Options page.

If you mean the actual target of that link contains the IP, I don't
understand because this is generated the same way as all the other
links, e.g the "<listname> administrative interface" link right above
it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 30 23:15:20 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:15:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possibly a simple question about delivery
In-Reply-To: <E6738D50-1D27-4264-AB51-84EAEB7C5BB8@telehouse.com>
Message-ID: <PC183020080430141520026582527fdd@msapiro>

Richard Bates wrote:

>I am testing a postfix mail server with mailman
>My question/problem is
>
>on normal delivery mail gets delivered to
>/home/user/Maildir
>for imap use.
>
>when mailman delivers the mail it sends it to
>/var/mail
>
>why and how do i fix it?


Are you saying that mail from Mailman to a local user gets delivered to
the user's mailbox in /var/mail, but mail to this same user from a
different source gets delivered to /home/user/Maildir?

If so, what happens with other mail originating on this same box? And,
is this the same Postfix MTA doing the delivery in both cases?

In any case, this appears to be a Postfix issue although I don't know
what. It appears you have the appropriate "home_mailbox = Maildir/"
setting in main.cf, but if this works for some mail and not for
Mailman's mail, I think it must have to do with the host and port via
which Mailman's mail arrives to Postfix, and not with it's coming from
Mailman per se.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From vancleef at lostwells.net  Wed Apr 30 23:22:07 2008
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:22:07 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installing mailman and sendmail
In-Reply-To: <4818AAD5.3070206@snurf.info>
Message-ID: <200804302122.m3ULM7ff015504@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Shams Fantar has said:
> 
> No, I didn't say that (because sendmail.cf exists), I just said that
> with "grep smrsh /etc/mail/sendmail.cf", I'm getting nothing with grep,
> so, "smrsh" isn't in this file.
> 
> 
> > 
> > I think you need to make certain that sendmail is set up correctly and
> > can process mail before going forward with trying to troubleshoot mailman.
> 
> Yes, I think it's just a problem with sendmail (or with mailman).
> 
> > 
> >> PS : I'm running debian lenny/sid.
> > 

I'm going to jump in here as I run Mailman with sendmail on a Solaris
system.  I can't comment on pecuiliarities of a Linux precompiled
distribution.

The Mailman installation manual goes through the steps of enabling 
a link to smrsh.
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node32.html

Additionally, you'll need to enable the sendmail smrsh capability.
You need to do this by adding a line in the main.mc file for sendmail
and rerunning the M4 process to recreate the sendmail.cf file.
The line to add is:

FEATURE(smrsh, /usr/lib/smrsh)dnl

This assumes that the smrsh executable is in /usr/lib.

If you are trying to run with a precompiled sendmail, you'll need to
configure main.mc for a variety of things that generally aren't in
default installations; the line above in "in addition to" selecting
things like relay control, masquerading, access_db, virtusertable etc. etc.  

Hank

From webservant at sunnyside4u.org  Wed Apr 30 23:31:43 2008
From: webservant at sunnyside4u.org (Web Servant)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:31:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber names in bulk subscribe
Message-ID: <1209591103.8439.3.camel@sweetadeline.steigerfamily.house>

Howdy!  I moved our domain hosting to a new company, and among other
things the new service uses Mailman instead of the home-grown mailing
list the previous service used.

So now I have to manually transfer my 40+ subscribers from the old
server to Mailman.  Hooray for bulk subscribe!  I can just cut-and-paste
the list of users, problem solved.

Except... I'd also like to bulk populate the subscriber *names* field.
Is there any way to do that, or will I have to go back and individually
key them in to the user list after I paste in the address list?

Thanks,
pbs



From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Apr 30 23:46:17 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:46:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber names in bulk subscribe
In-Reply-To: <1209591103.8439.3.camel@sweetadeline.steigerfamily.house>
References: <1209591103.8439.3.camel@sweetadeline.steigerfamily.house>
Message-ID: <4818E8A9.2030606@shub-internet.org>

Web Servant wrote:

> Except... I'd also like to bulk populate the subscriber *names* field.
> Is there any way to do that, or will I have to go back and individually
> key them in to the user list after I paste in the address list?

See FAQ 3.44 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.044.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>