From audit at c2security.org  Fri Feb  1 01:17:31 2008
From: audit at c2security.org (audit)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:17:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confused on Vhost and URL's
Message-ID: <47A2651B.2020909@c2security.org>

I converted some mail lists over from one domain to another when I 
changed from sendmail to postfix. Everything's working great except for 
one problem. When I run the command  flatlined /usr/local/mailman# 
bin/withlist -l -r fix_url bb-help -u www.domain.com then the lists info 
shows as If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact 
mailman at www.domain.com.

I'm trying to get rid of the please contact mailman at www.domain.com and 
have it show as mailman at domain.com

If I run it as bin/withlist -l -r fix_url bb-help -u domain.com
then it does but then it doesn't show up as being on the public mail 
lists under http://www.domain.com/mailman/listinfo

Does anyone know how to fix this?

Thanks

Running FreeBSD 6.2, Mailman 2.1.9

Thanks

John

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb  1 01:33:44 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:33:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confused on Vhost and URL's
In-Reply-To: <47A2651B.2020909@c2security.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801311633440140111dd6b8@msapiro>

audit wrote:

>I converted some mail lists over from one domain to another when I 
>changed from sendmail to postfix. Everything's working great except for 
>one problem. When I run the command  flatlined /usr/local/mailman# 
>bin/withlist -l -r fix_url bb-help -u www.domain.com then the lists info 
>shows as If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact 
>mailman at www.domain.com.
>
>I'm trying to get rid of the please contact mailman at www.domain.com and 
>have it show as mailman at domain.com
>
>If I run it as bin/withlist -l -r fix_url bb-help -u domain.com
>then it does but then it doesn't show up as being on the public mail 
>lists under http://www.domain.com/mailman/listinfo


Make sure you have

add_virtualhost('www.domain.com', 'domain.com')

in mm_cfg.py. Then run the first command above. fix_url sets the
webhost from the -u option and then tries to look up the corresponding
email host. If there is no add_virtualhost() for the web host, the
lookup fails and fix_url uses the web host as the email host.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tony.wessels at aptare.com  Fri Feb  1 02:03:38 2008
From: tony.wessels at aptare.com (Tony Wessels)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:03:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not sending any mail and not populating subscribers
Message-ID: <4BE6EDFB3C58E24887D56332993B03AF03EEAD95@VS2.EXCHPROD.USA.NET>

I just setup a mailman list on my server and have several people
subscribe to the list. However, Mailman is not sending out any Welcome
emails to the subscribers, nor are any subscribers listed in the
subscribers list in the admin console. I have posted some messages
myself as a subscriber, but nothing is going out. Any ideas? Do I need
to create a separate email account on the server that matches the email
account that mailman created for the list? Any ideas would be greatly
appreciated. I'm not super technical and am configuring this through the
console, not doing any command line. 

 

Thanks, 

 

Tony 

 





 


From audit at c2security.org  Fri Feb  1 01:41:26 2008
From: audit at c2security.org (audit)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:41:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confused on Vhost and URL's
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200801311633440140111dd6b8@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200801311633440140111dd6b8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47A26AB6.8040201@c2security.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> audit wrote:
> 
>> I converted some mail lists over from one domain to another when I 
>> changed from sendmail to postfix. Everything's working great except for 
>> one problem. When I run the command  flatlined /usr/local/mailman# 
>> bin/withlist -l -r fix_url bb-help -u www.domain.com then the lists info 
>> shows as If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact 
>> mailman at www.domain.com.
>>
>> I'm trying to get rid of the please contact mailman at www.domain.com and 
>> have it show as mailman at domain.com
>>
>> If I run it as bin/withlist -l -r fix_url bb-help -u domain.com
>> then it does but then it doesn't show up as being on the public mail 
>> lists under http://www.domain.com/mailman/listinfo
> 
> 
> Make sure you have
> 
>  > add_virtualhost('www.domain.com', 'domain.com')
> 
> in mm_cfg.py. Then run the first command above. fix_url sets the
> webhost from the -u option and then tries to look up the corresponding
> email host. If there is no add_virtualhost() for the web host, the
> lookup fails and fix_url uses the web host as the email host.
> 

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!
I followed the guide at http://www.freebsddiary.org/mailman.php when I 
set this up and it said that I didn't need to use the 
add_virtualhost('www.domain.com', 'domain.com') because I'm using 
postfix-to-mailman.py script in my master.cf file as

mailman   unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
   flags=FR user=mailman argv=/usr/local/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py
   ${nexthop} ${user}


Now to send a message to one of the lists and make sure everything works.

John

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb  1 04:53:18 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:53:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not sending any mail and not populating
	subscribers
In-Reply-To: <4BE6EDFB3C58E24887D56332993B03AF03EEAD95@VS2.EXCHPROD.USA.NET>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801311953180078447e0de0@msapiro>

Tony Wessels wrote:

>I just setup a mailman list on my server and have several people
>subscribe to the list. However, Mailman is not sending out any Welcome
>emails to the subscribers, nor are any subscribers listed in the
>subscribers list in the admin console. I have posted some messages
>myself as a subscriber, but nothing is going out. Any ideas? Do I need
>to create a separate email account on the server that matches the email
>account that mailman created for the list? Any ideas would be greatly
>appreciated. I'm not super technical and am configuring this through the
>console, not doing any command line. 


How are people subscribing?

What are the settings on Privacy options...->Subscription rules?

Are subscriptions pending approval?

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kewlpcs at hotmail.com  Fri Feb  1 05:01:04 2008
From: kewlpcs at hotmail.com (Michael James Wright)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 14:01:04 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing image script on  the mailing list
Message-ID: <BAY107-W40503FB87963D6578CD31DBA300@phx.gbl>

Hi
 
cause i have setup the mailing list http://stormsearchers.com/mailman/listinfo/stormsearcher_stormsearchers.com i want to cahnge the image scrip to suit my website can it be done and how could i do that
 
Mike
_________________________________________________________________
Your Future Starts Here. Dream it? Then be it! Find it at www.seek.com.au
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Ftracking%3Dsk%3Ahet%3Ask%3Anine%3A0%3Ahot%3Atext&_t=764565661&_r=OCT07_endtext_Future&_m=EXT

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb  1 05:20:18 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:20:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing image script on  the mailing list
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-W40503FB87963D6578CD31DBA300@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801312020180328175d271a@msapiro>

Michael James Wright wrote:
> 
>cause i have setup the mailing list http://stormsearchers.com/mailman/listinfo/stormsearcher_stormsearchers.com i want to cahnge the image scrip to suit my website can it be done and how could i do that


Go to
<http://stormsearchers.com/mailman/edithtml/stormsearcher_stormsearchers.com>
(or follow the "Edit the public HTML pages and text files" link from
<http://stormsearchers.com/mailman/admin/stormsearcher_stormsearchers.com>)
and edit the "General list information page".

You can add css and modify html, but don't change any of the special
<MM-*> tags unless you know what you're doing.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net  Fri Feb  1 06:17:08 2008
From: dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net (Dennis Carr)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:17:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam got through - how?!
Message-ID: <20080131211708.c32b4915.dennisthetiger@chez-vrolet.net>

OK, so today, I get a spam on the FFML, of which I have included the
headers below.

My question is simple: how did this happen?  

-Dennis Carr


Return-Path: <ffml-bounces
+dennisthetiger=chez-vrolet.net at chez-vrolet.net> X-Original-To:
dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net Delivered-To:
dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net Received: from kimba.chez-vrolet.net
(localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by kimba.chez-vrolet.net (Postfix)
with ESMTP id EF66234255 for <dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net>; Thu, 31
Jan 2008 13:55:41 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ffml at chez-vrolet.net
Delivered-To: ffml at chez-vrolet.net
Received: from host86-128-140-151.range86-128.btcentralplus.com
	(host86-128-140-151.range86-128.btcentralplus.com
[86.128.140.151]) by kimba.chez-vrolet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id
CA2C3340E4 for <ffml at chez-vrolet.net>; Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:55:32 -0800
(PST) Content-Return: allowed 
X-Mailer: CME-V6.5.4.3; MSN 
Received: (qmail 3804 by uid 548); Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:55:39 GMT
Message-Id:
<20080131095539.3806.qmail at host86-128-140-151.range86-128.btcentralplus.com>
To: <ffml at chez-vrolet.net> From: <ffml at chez-vrolet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:55:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [FFML] January 77% OFF
X-BeenThere: ffml at chez-vrolet.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: The Fanfiction Mailing List <ffml at chez-vrolet.net>
List-Id: The Fanfiction Mailing List <ffml.chez-vrolet.net>
List-Unsubscribe:
<http://www.chez-vrolet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ffml>,
<mailto:ffml-request at chez-vrolet.net?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive:
<http://www.chez-vrolet.net/pipermail/ffml> List-Post:
<mailto:ffml at chez-vrolet.net> List-Help:
<mailto:ffml-request at chez-vrolet.net?subject=help> List-Subscribe:
<http://www.chez-vrolet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ffml>,
<mailto:ffml-request at chez-vrolet.net?subject=subscribe> Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: ffml-bounces+dennisthetiger=chez-vrolet.net at chez-vrolet.net
Errors-To: ffml-bounces+dennisthetiger=chez-vrolet.net at chez-vrolet.net
X-UIDL: WNh"!l8@"!3Z5!!eGm!!
Status: RO

From alxfrag at gmail.com  Fri Feb  1 10:28:08 2008
From: alxfrag at gmail.com (AlxFrag)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 11:28:08 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A small problem when migrating a mailman list
Message-ID: <47A2E628.7020808@gmail.com>

Hi,

I have a problem regarding the migration of a list call 
test_list at domain.soc.uoc.gr from an old mail server to a new one.

I've copied /mailman/lists to the new mail server. I've also edited the 
aliases,virtual_mailman and mm_cfg.py files.

List works ok in the new mail server. The problem is that i cant see it 
in http://mydomain/mailman/admin.

But i can edit it through http://mydomain/mailman/admindb/test_list.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

Alex

From alxfrag at gmail.com  Fri Feb  1 10:32:29 2008
From: alxfrag at gmail.com (AlxFrag)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 11:32:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moved list not creating virtual-mailman entries
In-Reply-To: <479E453F.979.2D47E46@rpyne.kinfolk.org>
References: <479E453F.979.2D47E46@rpyne.kinfolk.org>
Message-ID: <47A2E72D.2010600@gmail.com>

Richard Pyne wrote:
> I have a group of Mailman lists that I moved to a new server. When I run 
> genaliases, it is correctly creating the aliases but not the entries in 
> virtual-mailman.
>
> I made the move and ran "withlist -l -r fix_url [listname]" for each list, 
> but Mailman is still not creating the virtual entries.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> --Richard
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/alxfrag%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>   
what if you manually create these entries?

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb  1 16:31:24 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 07:31:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam got through - how?!
In-Reply-To: <20080131211708.c32b4915.dennisthetiger@chez-vrolet.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802010731240921baa61371@msapiro>

Dennis Carr wrote:

>OK, so today, I get a spam on the FFML, of which I have included the
>headers below.
>
>My question is simple: how did this happen?  
>
>-Dennis Carr
>
>
>Return-Path: <ffml-bounces
>+dennisthetiger=chez-vrolet.net at chez-vrolet.net> X-Original-To:
>dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net Delivered-To:
>dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net Received: from kimba.chez-vrolet.net
>(localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by kimba.chez-vrolet.net (Postfix)
>with ESMTP id EF66234255 for <dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net>; Thu, 31
>Jan 2008 13:55:41 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ffml at chez-vrolet.net
>Delivered-To: ffml at chez-vrolet.net
>Received: from host86-128-140-151.range86-128.btcentralplus.com
>	(host86-128-140-151.range86-128.btcentralplus.com
>[86.128.140.151]) by kimba.chez-vrolet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id
>CA2C3340E4 for <ffml at chez-vrolet.net>; Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:55:32 -0800
>(PST) Content-Return: allowed 
>X-Mailer: CME-V6.5.4.3; MSN 
>Received: (qmail 3804 by uid 548); Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:55:39 GMT
>Message-Id:
><20080131095539.3806.qmail at host86-128-140-151.range86-128.btcentralplus.com>
>To: <ffml at chez-vrolet.net> From: <ffml at chez-vrolet.net>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:55:32 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: [FFML] January 77% OFF
>X-BeenThere: ffml at chez-vrolet.net
>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
>Precedence: list
>Reply-To: The Fanfiction Mailing List <ffml at chez-vrolet.net>
>List-Id: The Fanfiction Mailing List <ffml.chez-vrolet.net>
>List-Unsubscribe:
><http://www.chez-vrolet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ffml>,
><mailto:ffml-request at chez-vrolet.net?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive:
><http://www.chez-vrolet.net/pipermail/ffml> List-Post:
><mailto:ffml at chez-vrolet.net> List-Help:
><mailto:ffml-request at chez-vrolet.net?subject=help> List-Subscribe:
><http://www.chez-vrolet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ffml>,
><mailto:ffml-request at chez-vrolet.net?subject=subscribe> Content-Type:
>text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Sender: ffml-bounces+dennisthetiger=chez-vrolet.net at chez-vrolet.net
>Errors-To: ffml-bounces+dennisthetiger=chez-vrolet.net at chez-vrolet.net
>X-UIDL: WNh"!l8@"!3Z5!!eGm!!
>Status: RO


Your MUA has wrapped these headers almost beyond recognition, but I
think the important one is

From: <ffml at chez-vrolet.net>

The sender of the spam has spoofed the list address that it sent the
mail to in the From: header.

Does the list accept mail from the list address. I.e. is
ffml at chez-vrolet.net or a pattern matching ffml at chez-vrolet.net in
accept_these_nonmembers? Or is ffml at chez-vrolet.net a list member
(hopefully with delivery disabled)?

If not, it is possible, that the address of a list member was the
envelope sender or in a Sender: header in the original message. You
can find the message in the archives/private/ffml.mbox/ffml.mbox file
and look at the From_ line and Sender: header if any to see these. You
can also find the envelope sender in the Postfix log entry for the
original delivery to Mailman (probably /var/log/maillog).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb  1 16:58:45 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 07:58:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam got through - how?!
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802010731240921baa61371@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC176020080201075845064030739acd@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Dennis Carr wrote:
>
>>OK, so today, I get a spam on the FFML, of which I have included the
>>headers below.
>>
<snip>
>
>Your MUA has wrapped these headers almost beyond recognition, but I
>think the important one is
>
>From: <ffml at chez-vrolet.net>
>
>The sender of the spam has spoofed the list address that it sent the
>mail to in the From: header.


On the other hand, it just occurred to me that perhaps this is an
anonymous list, in which case the above is not the original From:. If
this is the case, it is possible that the original From: spoofed a
list member. The original sender should be logged in mailman's 'post'
log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb  1 17:08:20 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 08:08:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A small problem when migrating a mailman list
In-Reply-To: <47A2E628.7020808@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802010808200015a81aa6c3@msapiro>

AlxFrag wrote:
>
>List works ok in the new mail server. The problem is that i cant see it 
>in http://mydomain/mailman/admin.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.017.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From javiabd at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  1 18:10:15 2008
From: javiabd at yahoo.com (Abdul Javid)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 09:10:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question on sender
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802010808200015a81aa6c3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <384227.84489.qm@web63708.mail.re1.yahoo.com>


Hi
  
Is there a way to tweak what mailing list memebers get in "sender" field
   
  Like I would  like to put " News " 
   
  when members get the mail, they should see "News" in sender area in their mailbox
   
  thanks
  
 

       
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb  1 18:27:31 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 09:27:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question on sender
In-Reply-To: <384227.84489.qm@web63708.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080201092731003178dac47e@msapiro>

Abdul Javid wrote:
>  
>Is there a way to tweak what mailing list memebers get in "sender" field
>   
>  Like I would  like to put " News " 
>   
>  when members get the mail, they should see "News" in sender area in their mailbox


The Sender: is set to the listname-bounces address for automated bounce
processing to accommodate broken MUAs that return bounces to Sender:
instead of the envelope sender. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>
for more on this.

You can set anonymous_list to Yes which will replace the From: with

From: description <list at example.com>

where description is the text in the list's description attribute and
list at example.com is the list address.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From javiabd at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  1 18:41:31 2008
From: javiabd at yahoo.com (Abdul Javid)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 09:41:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question on sender
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080201092731003178dac47e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <960488.89588.qm@web63707.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Thanks Mark for quick reply

I was using anonymous_list to yes but was not aware of the description field.

its working now.

thanks again.

Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote: Abdul Javid wrote:
>  
>Is there a way to tweak what mailing list memebers get in "sender" field
>   
>  Like I would  like to put " News " 
>   
>  when members get the mail, they should see "News" in sender area in their mailbox


The Sender: is set to the listname-bounces address for automated bounce
processing to accommodate broken MUAs that return bounces to Sender:
instead of the envelope sender. See

for more on this.

You can set anonymous_list to Yes which will replace the From: with

From: description 


where description is the text in the list's description attribute and
list at example.com is the list address.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

From kd5de at nwla.com  Fri Feb  1 20:55:09 2008
From: kd5de at nwla.com (Mel Sojka)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 13:55:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam to list owners
Message-ID: <47A3791D.4030205@nwla.com>

Folks I have an old server that is being hosted for a client. Because of 
Phyton version it is running mailman 2.1.5 under sendmail. For some 
unknown reason there seems to be a massive amount of spam going to the 
list owner. Is there some method in this version to stop this abuse. 
There are multiple web sites on this server so the list-owner is in the 
Virt User table for sendmail.
Thanks
Mel

-- 
System Janitor/Network Plumber http://www.nwla.com
Linux User #25446    Linux 2.6.20


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb  1 22:01:50 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 13:01:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam to list owners
In-Reply-To: <47A3791D.4030205@nwla.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802011301500234f9baeebc@msapiro>

Mel Sojka wrote:

>Folks I have an old server that is being hosted for a client. Because of 
>Phyton version it is running mailman 2.1.5 under sendmail. For some 
>unknown reason there seems to be a massive amount of spam going to the 
>list owner. Is there some method in this version to stop this abuse. 
>There are multiple web sites on this server so the list-owner is in the 
>Virt User table for sendmail.


The most effective way to deal with spam is with a combination of
measures including greylisting and scanning in the incoming MTA.

In Mailman itself, header_filter_rules are applied to -owner mail as
well as to list mail, so you might be able to do something with them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Feb  1 22:24:02 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 06:24:02 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Spam to list owners
In-Reply-To: <47A3791D.4030205@nwla.com>
References: <47A3791D.4030205@nwla.com>
Message-ID: <87odb09xql.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mel Sojka writes:

 > Folks I have an old server that is being hosted for a client. Because of 
 > Phyton version it is running mailman 2.1.5 under sendmail. For some 
 > unknown reason there seems to be a massive amount of spam going to the 
 > list owner.

You can change the visible list owner address from $POST-MAILBOX-owner
to something else, which will work for a while.  However, the list
owner address needs to be visible to members, at least, and in
principle it has to accept spam content (so that members can forward
you a spam post saying "look what got through!")  So whatever vector
got your list-owner on a spammer's list is likely to eventually "out"
this one, too.

 > Is there some method in this version to stop this abuse. 

There is no way to stop random individuals from sending mail to your
host, except to disconnect it from the Internet.  All you can do is
refuse it or filter it.  Both of which make it possible that you've
refused or discarded legitmate mail.  You have to decide for yourself
the balance between the volume of unwanted mail a human has to process
against the risk of missing mail you want to see.

The best strategy seems to be to have a good Bayesian filter at the
level of the MTA and to train it regularly with new spam and new ham.


From toddg at doppeltech.com  Sat Feb  2 03:21:22 2008
From: toddg at doppeltech.com (Todd Gaiser)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 18:21:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discovering why emails are bouncing
Message-ID: <BAY124-DS10DD50F38CB73B74545D5D1310@phx.gbl>

I recently had a large number of subscribers on one of my lists start bouncing.  I see their scores going up, but I can't figure out how to capture the bounce messages to discover the reason.

Any thoughts?

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb  2 03:45:27 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 18:45:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discovering why emails are bouncing
In-Reply-To: <BAY124-DS10DD50F38CB73B74545D5D1310@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC17602008020118452700157fd7834a@msapiro>

Todd Gaiser wrote:

>I recently had a large number of subscribers on one of my lists start bouncing.  I see their scores going up, but I can't figure out how to capture the bounce messages to discover the reason.

There are two kinds of bounces. Bounces that occur because of problems
in delivery from Mailman to your outgoing MTA are logged in Mailman's
smtp-failure log. More likely, you are seeing bounce DSNs from your or
a foreign MTA.

In this case, as long as bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is Yes, when
the score reaches the threshold, you will receive a notice which
includes the bounce DSN.

If that is not soon enough, you have a couple of options.

Bounces are queued in the file data/bounce-events-ppppp.pck (where
ppppp is the PID of BounceRunner) and processed once every 15 minutes
(or other time set in mm_cfg.py via REGISTER_BOUNCES_EVERY), so if you
look shortly after a post is sent, you may be able to do

  bin/dumpdb data/bounce-events-ppppp.pck

and see some queued bounce messages.

The other option is to modify the listname-bounces alias or whatever
your MTA uses to deliver the bounce to Mailman so that the bounces are
either sent to you as well or instead.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From danb at zu.com  Sat Feb  2 08:14:24 2008
From: danb at zu.com (Dan Brown)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 01:14:24 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests for bounces and mail list stats?
Message-ID: <212701c8656b$40ca3980$3200a8c0@DAN>

We run two different mailing list software programs on our servers, one of
these is mailman 2.1.9 (only been in operation a couple of months), the
other is LetterRip 4.0.7.  Mailman is far faster than LetterRip and we'd
like to replace LetterRip fully (most likely with mailman on Apple Mac OS X
Server).  One of the things people here like with LetterRip (which don't
appear to exist with mailman by itself) however are the Bounce Digests and
Daily Statistics.

On an announcement list recently moved from LetterRip to mailman with nearly
8000 subscribers the first announcement from the new server caused 1337
mailman "Bounce action notification" messages confirming either a suspension
from the mailing list or a removal due to having a bounce score too high.
Is there a way to digest these into either a specific number of bounces or a
timeframe so maybe at most for that many bounces I get perhaps 14
notifications instead?

The Daily Statistics which are being dearly missed when the lists are moved
over (I hadn't realized they were so vital frankly) listed the number of
posts, as well as the number of subscribes and unsubscribes.  Is there any
(patch/plugin/extension) which is capable of creating these.

I realize one or both of these may be more of a feature request (or "hey
that's a good idea! let us know how your patch works out") than a current
possibility.
___________________________________________________
Dan Brown
danb at zu.com


From jacsdad at nc.rr.com  Sat Feb  2 15:43:16 2008
From: jacsdad at nc.rr.com (Thomas J Casey)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 09:43:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I desperate need of help
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAkAW3ngMq1kK2brPTTjJgMcKAAAAQAAAAhCFBagChRUeNO9WRpIKocwEAAAAA@nc.rr.com>

I'm lost and confused and in desperate need of help.  Please see the
attached and let me know what I should do. 
 
Thanks ahead of time...
 
Jacsdad aka Thomas J Casey
 
Upon his retirement, a former NASCAR Winston Cup Champion was quoted: "the
Older I get... the Better I was"
 

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb  2 17:04:57 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 08:04:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests for bounces and mail list stats?
In-Reply-To: <212701c8656b$40ca3980$3200a8c0@DAN>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802020804570015c1639f68@msapiro>

Dan Brown wrote:
>
>On an announcement list recently moved from LetterRip to mailman with nearly
>8000 subscribers the first announcement from the new server caused 1337
>mailman "Bounce action notification" messages confirming either a suspension
>from the mailing list or a removal due to having a bounce score too high.
>Is there a way to digest these into either a specific number of bounces or a
>timeframe so maybe at most for that many bounces I get perhaps 14
>notifications instead?


No, there is not, but you could turn off the notifications and extract
some information from Mailman's bounce log instead.

OTOH, this would seem to be a unique situation caused by importing a
list of 8000 addresses, over 16% of which were invalid. I suspect on
lists with a less radical membership change, any digest of bounce
notifications would contain only one or two notices.


>The Daily Statistics which are being dearly missed when the lists are moved
>over (I hadn't realized they were so vital frankly) listed the number of
>posts, as well as the number of subscribes and unsubscribes.  Is there any
>(patch/plugin/extension) which is capable of creating these.


Check out Brad Knowles' mmdsr (Mailman daily status report). This is in
the contrib/ directory of the Mailman distribution and also at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1123383&group_id=103&atid=300103>.
The version shipped with Mailman 2.1.9 is not the latest, but the
differences are minor. The latest version is at the link above and
will be in 2.1.10b2.

mmdsr gives good post information by hour, list and sender, and lots of
other good information all obtained from Mailman's log files. There is
no summary of subscribes and unsubscribes, but it would be easy to add
as it is all in Mailman's subscribe log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb  2 17:19:27 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 08:19:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I desperate need of help
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAkAW3ngMq1kK2brPTTjJgMcKAAAAQAAAAhCFBagChRUeNO9WRpIKocwEAAAAA@nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802020819270250c163a035@msapiro>

Thomas J Casey wrote:
>
>I'm lost and confused and in desperate need of help.  Please see the
>attached and let me know what I should do. 


In case you didn't see your own post from the list, the attachment was
removed by Mailman's content filtering.

Please post a plain text description of your issue to the list so we
can help you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jacsdad at nc.rr.com  Sat Feb  2 19:20:38 2008
From: jacsdad at nc.rr.com (Thomas J Casey)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 13:20:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I desperate need of help
Message-ID: <002b01c865c8$4fb6e530$6601a8c0@jacsdad>

This may  be difficult for some to read, and I can forward you a pdf
version.
 
In addition to the website ( <http://www.troop152.org/> www.troop152.org) I
support the email distribution process.  I am having a lot of setup
tribulations and need some direction. 

 

I am attempting to setup Mailman for 22 different distribution lists, with
unique individuals contained with them. We need to be able to: (1) from a
persons private email account, send an email to a distribution list on the
Server where our website is housed. (2) when received, verify if the
individual is authorized to submit email, and if not, notify the list owner
of the attempt without forwarding it. (3) if the person is authorized,
distribute/forward the email to the members of the distribution list. 

 

This has been done and works great, however we are encountering the
following:

 

1.	when a person submits an email for distribution and received by the
recipients, the From: field displays: test152-bounces at troop152.org; on
behalf of; Thomas J Casey [jacsdad at nc.rr.com]
<test152-bounces at troop152.org>.  We would like to remove the
test152-bounces at troop152.org; on behalf of; and the
test152-bounces at troop152.org at the end.  

Can this be setup and if possible how can I set it up.

 

2.	when a person replies to the email, it attempts to reply to the
originator only (example: Thomas J Casey [jacsdad at nc.rr.com] and not to the
distribution list of test152 at troop152.org.  

Can this be setup and if possible how can I set it up.

 

3.	I need to able to define who is authorized to submit email for
redistribution.  I was told by Support that the individuals email must be
added to the General Section of Mailman in the List Moderator section.  This
causing havoc with the 87 individuals who are currently contained within the
List Moderator section.  They receive ever notice when an individual is
added, removed, moderator request(s) waiting, failure notices and the like.


Can Mailman be setup that only those individuals defied in the General
Section of Mailman in the List Administrator section be notified and if
possible how can I set it up.

 

4.	when a person attempts to send an email to a mailing list, there
email is held until I attend to it.  

 

Once authorized in #3, can the process of submission and distribution be
automatic?

 

I have been in contact with Support at Host Monster multiple times, and they
have been no help whatsoever.  I've weeded through the instruction on
Mailman at: http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html but am more
confused then ever. 

 

As you can imagine, I'm getting a lot of heat to rectify these problems PDQ.
This is a Boy Scout Troop and I volunteer my services but these problems are
causing us more problems then Mailman is worth to us. 

 

If you have any suggestions, I would be eternally grateful.

 

Thanks ahead of time. tj casey

 

 

 
 
Jacsdad aka Thomas J Casey
 
Upon his retirement, a former NASCAR Winston Cup Champion was quoted: "the
Older I get... the Better I was"
 

From brian at emwd.com  Sat Feb  2 19:48:10 2008
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 13:48:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I desperate need of help
In-Reply-To: <002b01c865c8$4fb6e530$6601a8c0@jacsdad>
References: <002b01c865c8$4fb6e530$6601a8c0@jacsdad>
Message-ID: <008e01c865cc$29ea3dd0$7dbeb970$@com>

> This has been done and works great, however we are encountering the
> following:
> 1.	when a person submits an email for distribution and received by
> the
> recipients, the From: field displays: test152-bounces at troop152.org; on
> behalf of; Thomas J Casey [jacsdad at nc.rr.com]
> <test152-bounces at troop152.org>.  We would like to remove the
> test152-bounces at troop152.org; on behalf of; and the
> test152-bounces at troop152.org at the end.
> 
> Can this be setup and if possible how can I set it up.

see http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp

> 2.	when a person replies to the email, it attempts to reply to the
> originator only (example: Thomas J Casey [jacsdad at nc.rr.com] and not to
> the
> distribution list of test152 at troop152.org.
> 
> Can this be setup and if possible how can I set it up.

Set "Where are replies to list messages directed?" to 'This List' on the
general options page of your mailman admin interface.


> 3.	I need to able to define who is authorized to submit email for
> redistribution.  I was told by Support that the individuals email must
> be
> added to the General Section of Mailman in the List Moderator section.
> This
> causing havoc with the 87 individuals who are currently contained
> within the
> List Moderator section.  They receive ever notice when an individual is
> added, removed, moderator request(s) waiting, failure notices and the
> like.

You can turn off some of these notifications via your list admin interface.

> 
> Can Mailman be setup that only those individuals defied in the General
> Section of Mailman in the List Administrator section be notified and if
> possible how can I set it up.

There is no need to have so many moderators. Just have the moderation bit of
those members who are allowed to post to the list turned to off. This can be
done on the membership management page. You can them remove the large number
of moderators that you have currently. 


> 4.	when a person attempts to send an email to a mailing list, there
> email is held until I attend to it.
> 
> Once authorized in #3, can the process of submission and distribution
> be
> automatic?

Yes. See my answer above.

> I have been in contact with Support at Host Monster multiple times, and
> they
> have been no help whatsoever.  I've weeded through the instruction on
> Mailman at: http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html but am more
> confused then ever.

It's my opinion that most web hosts who include mailman as their service
offering provide shoddy support for it. Check out us at
http://www.emwd.com/mailman.html.

> 
> 
> Thanks ahead of time. tj casey 
> 
> Jacsdad aka Thomas J Casey
> 

Have a great weekend!

Brian Carpenter
EMWD.com


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb  2 19:52:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 10:52:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I desperate need of help
In-Reply-To: <002b01c865c8$4fb6e530$6601a8c0@jacsdad>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802021052080859a704d803@msapiro>

Thomas J Casey wrote:
>
>1.	when a person submits an email for distribution and received by the
>recipients, the From: field displays: test152-bounces at troop152.org; on
>behalf of; Thomas J Casey [jacsdad at nc.rr.com]
><test152-bounces at troop152.org>.  We would like to remove the
>test152-bounces at troop152.org; on behalf of; and the
>test152-bounces at troop152.org at the end.  
>
>Can this be setup and if possible how can I set it up.


This is being done by the MUA (email client) that is reading the mail.
People who use other than MS Outlook to read this mail do not see
this. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.


>2.	when a person replies to the email, it attempts to reply to the
>originator only (example: Thomas J Casey [jacsdad at nc.rr.com] and not to the
>distribution list of test152 at troop152.org.  
>
>Can this be setup and if possible how can I set it up.


Reply-all should work.  Also, on the list's General Options page, you
can set reply_goes_to_list to 'This list'. Also, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.048.htp>.	


>3.	I need to able to define who is authorized to submit email for
>redistribution.  I was told by Support that the individuals email must be
>added to the General Section of Mailman in the List Moderator section. 


This is not true. Whether or not an address is listed as an owner or
moderator has absolutely nothing to do with how their posts are
handled.

I thing you are confusing the 'moderator' list with the individual
user's 'moderated' flag (the 'mod' checkbox on the admin Membership
list).


>This
>causing havoc with the 87 individuals who are currently contained within the
>List Moderator section.  They receive ever notice when an individual is
>added, removed, moderator request(s) waiting, failure notices and the like.


They should not be there.


>Can Mailman be setup that only those individuals defied in the General
>Section of Mailman in the List Administrator section be notified and if
>possible how can I set it up.


People who should receive notices should have their addresses listed as
owner or moderator. No other addresses should be listed as owner or
moderator. These addresses may or may not be list members. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.060.htp>.


>4.	when a person attempts to send an email to a mailing list, there
>email is held until I attend to it.  
>
> 
>
>Once authorized in #3, can the process of submission and distribution be
>automatic?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>.
This may not describe your situation exactly, but it will give you an
idea of the settings involved.

I think what you want is to set Privacy options...->Sender
filters->default_member_moderation to Yes so that new members are
moderated by default, and set the other settings on that page per your
needs.

Then on the admin Membership List under "Additional Member Tasks", set
every current member's moderation bit 'On', and then manually uncheck
the 'mod' box for those members allowed to post.


>I have been in contact with Support at Host Monster multiple times, and they
>have been no help whatsoever.  I've weeded through the instruction on
>Mailman at: http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html but am more
>confused then ever. 


Have you looked at <http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/admins.html>?
Unfortunately, the two manuals linked from there are inadequate. One
is for a very old version and the other is incomplete, but they may be
of help. Also, see the FAQ at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>.

You can always come back here with specific questions.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Feb  2 20:19:01 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 13:19:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I desperate need of help
In-Reply-To: <002b01c865c8$4fb6e530$6601a8c0@jacsdad>
References: <002b01c865c8$4fb6e530$6601a8c0@jacsdad>
Message-ID: <p06240800c3ca6c724e15@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/2/08, Thomas J Casey wrote:

>  1.	when a person submits an email for distribution and received by the
>  recipients, the From: field displays: test152-bounces at troop152.org; on
>  behalf of; Thomas J Casey [jacsdad at nc.rr.com]
>  <test152-bounces at troop152.org>.  We would like to remove the
>  test152-bounces at troop152.org; on behalf of; and the
>  test152-bounces at troop152.org at the end.
>
>  Can this be setup and if possible how can I set it up.

See FAQ 2.3 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.

>  2.	when a person replies to the email, it attempts to reply to the
>  originator only (example: Thomas J Casey [jacsdad at nc.rr.com] and not to the
>  distribution list of test152 at troop152.org.
>
>  Can this be setup and if possible how can I set it up.

See FAQ 3.48 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.048.htp>.

>  3.	I need to able to define who is authorized to submit email for
>  redistribution.  I was told by Support that the individuals email must be
>  added to the General Section of Mailman in the List Moderator section.  This
>  causing havoc with the 87 individuals who are currently contained within the
>  List Moderator section.  They receive ever notice when an individual is
>  added, removed, moderator request(s) waiting, failure notices and the like.

You don't set them up as moderators.  If they are subscribers to the 
list, you simply clear their moderation bit, leaving everyone else 
with their moderation bit set.  If they are not subscribers, then 
they need to be on the whitelist.

>  Can Mailman be setup that only those individuals defied in the General
>  Section of Mailman in the List Administrator section be notified and if
>  possible how can I set it up.

If you want them all to be notified of every moderation action that 
needs to be taken, then a simple way would be to set up an alias or 
mailing list for those people, and then list the alias or other 
mailing list as the moderator for the lists in question.  But list 
moderation can be a huge load of work, so I'm not sure you want that.

>  4.	when a person attempts to send an email to a mailing list, there
>  email is held until I attend to it.

That's standard list moderation.

>  Once authorized in #3, can the process of submission and distribution be
>  automatic?

Sure.  For those people who are approved to post to the list without 
moderation, just clear their moderation bit or put them on the 
whitelist.

Alternatively, you could let them have the list moderator password, 
and have them put the password in their message, according to the 
instructions in FAQ 3.11 and 3.34 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp> 
and 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.034.htp>, 
respectively.

>  I have been in contact with Support at Host Monster multiple times, and they
>  have been no help whatsoever.  I've weeded through the instruction on
>  Mailman at: http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html but am more
>  confused then ever.

Regretfully, if your mailing lists are provided by a hosting service, 
they need to be your first stop for all support questions.  If they 
are not responsive to you, then you should look around to find a 
mailing list service provider that is responsive.

>  As you can imagine, I'm getting a lot of heat to rectify these problems PDQ.
>  This is a Boy Scout Troop and I volunteer my services but these problems are
>  causing us more problems then Mailman is worth to us.

Once you get things set up, I think you'll be fine.  There's just 
some minor issues you're not used to, at least partly because of the 
other software you've been using until now.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Feb  2 21:27:40 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 05:27:40 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests for bounces and mail list stats?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802020804570015c1639f68@msapiro>
References: <212701c8656b$40ca3980$3200a8c0@DAN>
	<PC1760200802020804570015c1639f68@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87y7a385oj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:
 > Dan Brown wrote:
 > >
 > >Is there a way to digest [bounce messages] into either a specific
 > >number of bounces or a timeframe so maybe at most for that many
 > >bounces I get perhaps 14 notifications instead?

 > OTOH, this would seem to be a unique situation caused by importing a
 > list of 8000 addresses, over 16% of which were invalid. I suspect on
 > lists with a less radical membership change, any digest of bounce
 > notifications would contain only one or two notices.

Sure, but does anybody just sit on the edge of their chair waiting to
be biffed that a bounce message is waiting for them?  I know I
certainly don't.  I also have my mailer set up to collect those in a
virtual folder so I can deal all such at once, rather than having them
interrupt my otherwise unbroken sequence of fan mail.<wink>

I think it would be a really good idea to digestify these by default.
Well, good enough to submit an RFE:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1885403&group_id=103&atid=350103

From ratnaweera at dplanet.ch  Sat Feb  2 23:42:39 2008
From: ratnaweera at dplanet.ch (Visvanath Ratnaweera)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 23:42:39 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Needs help during tranisition
Message-ID: <20080202224239.GA8381@mituru>

Hi all

I did a whacky transistion form an old installation to a new one.
The old installation is only available as files (no running
Mailman), since a hard dist crashed and we were left with bare
data. 

I did a straightforward transition roughly as described in 
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-January/055208.html

Now when I visit http://OURHOST/mailman/admin/OURLIST and enter
password, I get
---
Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing
of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited,
but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. 
---

This is the error log (the listname and host name were replaced
manually by OURLIST and OURHOST):
---
Feb 02 23:15:27 2008 (12889) Failed config.pck write, retaining old state.
[Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/OURLIST/config.pck.tmp.OURHOST.12889'
Feb 02 23:15:27 2008 admin(12889): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 
admin(12889): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----] 
admin(12889): [----- Traceback ------] 
admin(12889): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(12889):   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
admin(12889):     main()
admin(12889):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 199, in mai
n
admin(12889):     mlist.Save()
admin(12889):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 561, in Save
admin(12889):     self.__save(dict)
admin(12889):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 516, in __sa
ve
admin(12889):     fp = open(fname_tmp, 'w')
admin(12889): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/OURLIST/config.pck.tmp.dskt6990.12889'
admin(12889): [----- Python Information -----] 
admin(12889): sys.version     =   2.5.1 (r251:54863, May  4 2007, 16:52:23) 
[GCC 4.1.2] 
admin(12889): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python 
admin(12889): sys.prefix      =   /usr 
admin(12889): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr 
admin(12889): sys.path        =   /usr 
admin(12889): sys.platform    =   linux2 
--- 

Any help appreciated.

Visvanath

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb  3 00:36:58 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 15:36:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Needs help during tranisition
In-Reply-To: <20080202224239.GA8381@mituru>
Message-ID: <PC17602008020215365805460a7b935c@msapiro>

Visvanath Ratnaweera wrote:
>
>I did a whacky transistion form an old installation to a new one.
>The old installation is only available as files (no running
>Mailman), since a hard dist crashed and we were left with bare
>data. 
>
>I did a straightforward transition roughly as described in 
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-January/055208.html
>
>Now when I visit http://OURHOST/mailman/admin/OURLIST and enter
>password, I get
>---
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing
>of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited,
>but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. 
>---
>
>This is the error log (the listname and host name were replaced
>manually by OURLIST and OURHOST):
>---
>Feb 02 23:15:27 2008 (12889) Failed config.pck write, retaining old state.
>[Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/OURLIST/config.pck.tmp.OURHOST.12889'
>Feb 02 23:15:27 2008 admin(12889): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 
>admin(12889): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----] 
>admin(12889): [----- Traceback ------] 
>admin(12889): Traceback (most recent call last):
>admin(12889):   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
>admin(12889):     main()
>admin(12889):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 199, in mai
>n
>admin(12889):     mlist.Save()
>admin(12889):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 561, in Save
>admin(12889):     self.__save(dict)
>admin(12889):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 516, in __sa
>ve
>admin(12889):     fp = open(fname_tmp, 'w')
>admin(12889): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/OURLIST/config.pck.tmp.dskt6990.12889'


It looks like the web server (in this case) doesn't have permission the
create files in the /usr/local/mailman/lists/OURLIST/ directory.

Check that the owner:group and permissions on this directory are the
same as other directories in /usr/local/mailman/lists/, e.g.
/usr/local/mailman/lists/mailman/.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb  3 01:33:24 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:33:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10b1 Released
In-Reply-To: <475638CF.2090105@msapiro.net>
References: <475638CF.2090105@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <47A50BD4.9080305@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I am happy to announce the second beta release of Mailman 2.1.10. For
technical reasons, there was no 'b2' release.

This is a security and bug fix release and it is highly recommended
that all sites upgrade to this version.  Mailman 2.1.10 also adds support
for two new language translations, Hebrew and Slovak and a few new features.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and e-
newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, including download links, please see:

http://www.list.org
http://mailman.sf.net
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman

Special thanks are due to Barry Warsaw and Tokio Kikuchi for much coding
and support, Moritz Naumann for help with security issues and Jim Tittsler
for a significant patch.

Changes since 2.1.10b1 include:

~  - Fixed cron/disabled to test if bounce info is stale before disabling a
~    member when the threshold has been reduced.

~  - Improved processing of backup/recovery of queue files.

~  - Updated mmdsr script.

~  - Updated Vietnamese and Danish translations.

And here are the major changes from 2.1.9 that were included in 2.1.10b1:

~  Security

~    - The 2.1.9 fixes for CVE-2006-3636 have been enhanced.  In particular,
~      many potential cross-site scripting attacks have are now detected in
~      editing templates and updating the list's info attribute via the web
~      admin interface.  Thanks again to Moritz Naumann for assistance with
~      this.

~  New Features

~    - Changed cmd_who.py to list all members if authorization is with the
~      list's admin or moderator password and to accept the password if the
~      roster is public.  Also changed the web roster to show hidden members
~      when authorization is by site or list's admin or moderator password
~      (1587651).

~    - Added the ability to put a list name in accept_these_nonmembers
~      to accept posts from members of that list (1220144).

~    - Added a new 'sibling list' feature to exclude members of another list
~      from receiving a post from this list if the other list is in the To: or
~      Cc: of the post or to include members of the other list if that list is
~      not in the To: or Cc: of the post (Patch ID 1347962).

~    - Added the admin_member_chunksize attribute to the admin General Options
~      interface (Bug 1072002, Partial RFE 782436).

Internationalization

~    - Added the Hebrew translation from Dov Zamir.  This includes addition of
~      a direction ('ltr', 'rtl') to the LC_DESCRIPTIONS table.  The
~      add_language() function defaults direction to 'ltr' to not break
~      existing mm_cfg.py files.

~    - Added the Slovak translation from Martin Matuska.


- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb  3 01:44:01 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:44:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10b3 Released (was: Re: Mailman
	2.1.10b1 Released)
In-Reply-To: <47A50BD4.9080305@msapiro.net>
References: <475638CF.2090105@msapiro.net> <47A50BD4.9080305@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <47A50E51.1090609@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Ihe subject of my previous post quoted below should have been "Mailman
2.1.10b3 Released". Sorry for the confusion.

Mark Sapiro wrote:
| I am happy to announce the second beta release of Mailman 2.1.10. For
| technical reasons, there was no 'b2' release.
|
| This is a security and bug fix release and it is highly recommended
| that all sites upgrade to this version.  Mailman 2.1.10 also adds support
| for two new language translations, Hebrew and Slovak and a few new
| features.
|
| Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and e-
| newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
| SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.
|
| For more information, including download links, please see:
|
| http://www.list.org
| http://mailman.sf.net
| http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
|
| Special thanks are due to Barry Warsaw and Tokio Kikuchi for much coding
| and support, Moritz Naumann for help with security issues and Jim Tittsler
| for a significant patch.
|
| Changes since 2.1.10b1 include:
|
| ~  - Fixed cron/disabled to test if bounce info is stale before disabling a
| ~    member when the threshold has been reduced.
|
| ~  - Improved processing of backup/recovery of queue files.
|
| ~  - Updated mmdsr script.
|
| ~  - Updated Vietnamese and Danish translations.
|
| And here are the major changes from 2.1.9 that were included in 2.1.10b1:
|
| ~  Security
|
| ~    - The 2.1.9 fixes for CVE-2006-3636 have been enhanced.  In
| particular,
| ~      many potential cross-site scripting attacks have are now detected in
| ~      editing templates and updating the list's info attribute via the web
| ~      admin interface.  Thanks again to Moritz Naumann for assistance with
| ~      this.
|
| ~  New Features
|
| ~    - Changed cmd_who.py to list all members if authorization is with the
| ~      list's admin or moderator password and to accept the password if the
| ~      roster is public.  Also changed the web roster to show hidden
| members
| ~      when authorization is by site or list's admin or moderator password
| ~      (1587651).
|
| ~    - Added the ability to put a list name in accept_these_nonmembers
| ~      to accept posts from members of that list (1220144).
|
| ~    - Added a new 'sibling list' feature to exclude members of another
| list
| ~      from receiving a post from this list if the other list is in the
| To: or
| ~      Cc: of the post or to include members of the other list if that
| list is
| ~      not in the To: or Cc: of the post (Patch ID 1347962).
|
| ~    - Added the admin_member_chunksize attribute to the admin General
| Options
| ~      interface (Bug 1072002, Partial RFE 782436).
|
| Internationalization
|
| ~    - Added the Hebrew translation from Dov Zamir.  This includes
| addition of
| ~      a direction ('ltr', 'rtl') to the LC_DESCRIPTIONS table.  The
| ~      add_language() function defaults direction to 'ltr' to not break
| ~      existing mm_cfg.py files.
|
| ~    - Added the Slovak translation from Martin Matuska.
|
|

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From barry at list.org  Sun Feb  3 04:33:24 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 22:33:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.10b1 Released
In-Reply-To: <47A50BD4.9080305@msapiro.net>
References: <475638CF.2090105@msapiro.net> <47A50BD4.9080305@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <B041E985-A08A-4C92-A103-A963D9FBD4D9@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Feb 2, 2008, at 7:33 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
> I am happy to announce the second beta release of Mailman 2.1.10. For
> technical reasons, there was no 'b2' release.

Awesome!  Thanks, and congratulations Mark.

- -Barry

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=Q/bo
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From ratnaweera at dplanet.ch  Sun Feb  3 09:17:07 2008
From: ratnaweera at dplanet.ch (Visvanath Ratnaweera)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 09:17:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Needs help during tranisition
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008020215365805460a7b935c@msapiro>
References: <20080202224239.GA8381@mituru>
	<PC17602008020215365805460a7b935c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080203081707.GA7389@mituru>

Hi Mark, hi all

Ref: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 03.02.2008 08:29
> Visvanath Ratnaweera wrote:
> >
> >I did a straightforward transition roughly as described in 
> >http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-January/055208.html
> >
> >Now when I visit http://OURHOST/mailman/admin/OURLIST and enter
> >password, I get
> >---
> >Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9
> >
> >[Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/OURLIST/config.pck.tmp.OURHOST.12889'
> >Feb 02 23:15:27 2008 admin(12889): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 
> 
> Check that the owner:group and permissions on this directory are the
> same as other directories in /usr/local/mailman/lists/, e.g.
> /usr/local/mailman/lists/mailman/.

Thanks! That took me further. (Sorry for these obvious questions.
I've installed this list one time years ago and it simply worked. 
Now trying to recover from a disk crash - between official duties).

Now I can login to the adminstration interface. My first test mail
bounced from Postfix "No such local recipient". Then I checked/
corrected the steps in 
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node13.html

Now my test mails get vanished somewhere (not delivered, not
bounced). How should I trace this?

regards
Visvanath

From audit at c2security.org  Sun Feb  3 17:51:48 2008
From: audit at c2security.org (audit)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 11:51:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting rid of default mailman address due to
	vhosts only
Message-ID: <47A5F124.4090302@c2security.org>

I'm running a primary server that I use for personal usage but also have 
a few lists running off a different domain setup on it using postfix, 
mailman, 2.1.9 and FreeBSD 6.2

On the front of http://www.virutaldomain.com/mailman/listinfo/ it says,

If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact 
mailman at virtualdomain.com.

but that's a list that I had to create when I started this entire thing. 
I used the rmlist to delete the mailman list but it gives me an error 
when I try to post to one of my other lists about

mailman   unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
   flags=FR user=mailman argv=/usr/local/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py
   ${nexthop} ${user}


command that I have in the master.cf file.

How do I get rid of that mailman list as I really don't need it nor want 
it anymore. If someone tries to send an email to 
mailman at virtualdomain.com. because they followed the directions on the 
from the listinfo page, then it just gets defered since I have the 
default mailman list setup so anything that posts to it gets defered and 
deleted.

Thanks


From ratnaweera at dplanet.ch  Sun Feb  3 17:54:29 2008
From: ratnaweera at dplanet.ch (Visvanath Ratnaweera)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 17:54:29 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Needs help during tranisition SOLVED
In-Reply-To: <20080203081707.GA7389@mituru>
References: <20080202224239.GA8381@mituru>
	<PC17602008020215365805460a7b935c@msapiro>
	<20080203081707.GA7389@mituru>
Message-ID: <20080203165429.GA13574@mituru>

Ignore this request. The problem was, I haven't yet started
qrunner!

It's working now. Thanks for your support!

Visvanath

Ref: Visvanath Ratnaweera <ratnaweera at dplanet.ch> 03.02.2008 11:49
> 
> Now I can login to the adminstration interface. My first test mail
> bounced from Postfix "No such local recipient". Then I checked/
> corrected the steps in 
> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node13.html
> 
> Now my test mails get vanished somewhere (not delivered, not
> bounced). How should I trace this?
> 
> regards
> Visvanath

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb  3 18:50:51 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 09:50:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting rid of default mailman address due
	tovhosts only
In-Reply-To: <47A5F124.4090302@c2security.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008020309505103128a58d82b@msapiro>

audit wrote:

>I used the rmlist to delete the mailman list but it gives me an error 
>when I try to post to one of my other lists about
>
>mailman   unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
>   flags=FR user=mailman argv=/usr/local/mailman/postfix-to-mailman.py
>   ${nexthop} ${user}
>
>
>command that I have in the master.cf file.
>
>How do I get rid of that mailman list as I really don't need it nor want 
>it anymore.


In Mailman 2.1.x, you MUST have the 'mailman' list. It will go away in
Mailman 3.0, but for now you need it. Many things depend on it.


>If someone tries to send an email to 
>mailman at virtualdomain.com. because they followed the directions on the 
>from the listinfo page, then it just gets defered since I have the 
>default mailman list setup so anything that posts to it gets defered and 
>deleted.


That's not really very friendly to your users. If you don't want to
accept mail to the mailman list, that's fine, but you should consider
patching Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py and Mailman/Cgi/admin.py to remove
the lines about mailing to the site list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From javiabd at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  3 19:07:02 2008
From: javiabd at yahoo.com (Abdul Javid)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 10:07:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to get the list of members in a list
In-Reply-To: <20080203165429.GA13574@mituru>
Message-ID: <658948.30103.qm@web63710.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

HI
   
  How do I get the list of members in list, number of members, the admin interface provides page by page or filter by name.
   
  thanks in advance
   
  Abdul

       
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb  3 19:16:00 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 10:16:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to get the list of members in a list
In-Reply-To: <658948.30103.qm@web63710.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008020310160008592b4e4bbb@msapiro>

Abdul Javid wrote:
>   
>  How do I get the list of members in list, number of members, the admin interface provides page by page or filter by name.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Sun Feb  3 19:10:56 2008
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 19:10:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to get the list of members in a list
In-Reply-To: <658948.30103.qm@web63710.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <20080203165429.GA13574@mituru>
	<658948.30103.qm@web63710.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20080203181056.GA10933@charite.de>

* Abdul Javid <javiabd at yahoo.com>:
> HI
>    
>   How do I get the list of members in list, number of members, the admin interface provides page by page or filter by name.

list_members listname
list_members listname | wc -l

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                    send no mail to plonk at charite.de

From audit at c2security.org  Sun Feb  3 19:42:47 2008
From: audit at c2security.org (audit)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 13:42:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting rid of default mailman address due
 tovhosts only
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008020309505103128a58d82b@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008020309505103128a58d82b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47A60B27.5020603@c2security.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> audit wrote:
> 

> That's not really very friendly to your users. If you don't want to
> accept mail to the mailman list, that's fine, but you should consider
> patching Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py and Mailman/Cgi/admin.py to remove
> the lines about mailing to the site list.
> 

How would I patch that? or is there lines that I can comment out?

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb  3 21:31:22 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 12:31:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting rid of default mailman address due
	tovhostsonly
In-Reply-To: <47A60B27.5020603@c2security.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802031231220109ab4f5463@msapiro>

audit wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> audit wrote:
>> 
>
>> That's not really very friendly to your users. If you don't want to
>> accept mail to the mailman list, that's fine, but you should consider
>> patching Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py and Mailman/Cgi/admin.py to remove
>> the lines about mailing to the site list.
>> 
>
>How would I patch that? or is there lines that I can comment out?

The attached patch.txt file contains patches for both modules.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
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From Brandon at WebsterRidge.com  Sun Feb  3 21:37:59 2008
From: Brandon at WebsterRidge.com (Brandon Sussman)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 15:37:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to get the list of members in a list
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008020310160008592b4e4bbb@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008020310160008592b4e4bbb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47A62627.7070403@WebsterRidge.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Mark Sapiro wrote:
|>  How do I get the list of members in list, number of members, the
admin interface provides page by page or filter by name.
|
| See
| <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>.
|
I have been playing with your script referenced in that faq.

I note "Tested with the Mailman 2.1.5 - 2.1.8 member roster layout.".  I
assume those releases's web page layouts as well.

Here is the admin URI that works for me (real list and server name xxxed
and yyyed):

http://lists.xxxx.net/admin.cgi/yyyy-xxxx.net/members

Command line as I think should have worked:

mailman-subscribers.py --url_path /admin.cgi lists.xxxx.net
yyyy-xxxx.net listpswd

(watch out for line break)

I made changes to get it to work with 2.1.9 (Dreamhost's release),
changing the server string and the letters variable (hardcoding the
entire alphabet into it).

Can you say if the changes I had to make as described below due to 2.1.9
differences or Dreamhost-monkeying-with-it differences?

1. From the usage, it seemed that '--url_path /admin.cgi' was literally
~ correct for me but the string it constructed was wrong and when I hard
coded my uri:
- --line of code follows:
member_url = 'http://lists.xxxx.net/admin.cgi/yyyy-xxxx.net/members'
- --end
it works as expected.

2. The script had problems finding all the letters - it only processed
the first one present in the membership list.  This sloppy change just
before the while loop that gets the chunks worked:
- --line of code follows:
letters = "2ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ"
- --end

My changes are hard coded since I am such a lazy weak Pythonist,
otherwise I am happy to share.
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From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Sun Feb  3 22:25:30 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 16:25:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests for bounces and mail list stats?
In-Reply-To: <87y7a385oj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <212701c8656b$40ca3980$3200a8c0@DAN>	<PC1760200802020804570015c1639f68@msapiro>
	<87y7a385oj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <47A6314A.4040000@Media-Brokers.com>

On 2/2/2008, Stephen J. Turnbull (stephen at xemacs.org) wrote:
> Sure, but does anybody just sit on the edge of their chair waiting to
> be biffed that a bounce message is waiting for them?

Actually, I have a few lists that, yes, I must deal with bounces 
immediately (or asap) - it is how the nature of these lists.

But the others are not time-sensitive, and having their bounces 
digestified would be fine.

So if this is done, I hope that it is at least an option per list.

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From Jan at Bytesmiths.com  Sun Feb  3 22:42:04 2008
From: Jan at Bytesmiths.com (Jan Steinman)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 13:42:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] managing pending subscriptions and confirmations
Message-ID: <B6F3805F-3FA3-45D6-8FE0-37E9E4F0BA63@Bytesmiths.com>

I seem to be gathering a fair number of unrequited pending  
subscriptions on several mailing lists. I see them by grepping for  
"pending" in /var/log/mailman/subscribe, and then checking for  
corresponding "new" entries. I did this after one of my hosting  
clients complained that people were subscribing to her newsletter, but  
weren't actually getting added to the mailing list.

These are "real" subscription requests -- not spammers or other trash.  
They are primarily people who have asked to subscribe, and then they  
were sent to the sign-up page. Many of them are relatively  
unsophisticated Internet users.

I have successfully gone through the subscription process with several  
alias addresses, so I know that it works -- at least from within my LAN.

I can only surmise that the confirmation messages are languishing in  
people's spam mailbox.

One of my clients is considering using a paid service called "Constant  
Contact" (http://www.constantcontact.com) because they claim they can  
get through people's spam filters.

Any clues, hints, or techniques for having mailman self-subscriptions  
without getting the confirmation stuck in spam filters?

I tried using the "listname-join" email address technique, but the  
confirmation comes back as from "listname-request", so it seems spam  
filters that allow replies to addresses previously sent to won't help  
here. Is there a way to make the "From:" address "listname-join"  
instead? (This should not cause any problems, because "Reply-To:"  
would still be "listname-request".)

Any other thoughts or comments welcome!

:::: This phase we're in of exponential growth is about over. We now  
have an exponential growth culture that at the present time doesn't  
even know how to cope with a state of non-growth. -- M. King Hubbert,  
1976 ::::
:::: Jan Steinman <http://www.EcoReality.org> ::::




From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb  3 23:03:42 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 14:03:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to get the list of members in a list
In-Reply-To: <47A62627.7070403@WebsterRidge.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008020314034203757382f001@msapiro>

Brandon Sussman wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>|>  How do I get the list of members in list, number of members, the
>admin interface provides page by page or filter by name.
>|
>| See
>| <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>.
>|
>I have been playing with your script referenced in that faq.
>
>I note "Tested with the Mailman 2.1.5 - 2.1.8 member roster layout.".  I
>assume those releases's web page layouts as well.


Actually, it means the admin Membership list page layout, and it also
works for me with Mailman 2.1.9 and 2.1.10. I have updated the note in
the script accordingly.


>Here is the admin URI that works for me (real list and server name xxxed
>and yyyed):
>
>http://lists.xxxx.net/admin.cgi/yyyy-xxxx.net/members
>
>Command line as I think should have worked:
>
>mailman-subscribers.py --url_path /admin.cgi lists.xxxx.net
>yyyy-xxxx.net listpswd
>
>(watch out for line break)


This looks correct.


>I made changes to get it to work with 2.1.9 (Dreamhost's release),
>changing the server string and the letters variable (hardcoding the
>entire alphabet into it).
>
>Can you say if the changes I had to make as described below due to 2.1.9
>differences or Dreamhost-monkeying-with-it differences?
>
>1. From the usage, it seemed that '--url_path /admin.cgi' was literally
>~ correct for me but the string it constructed was wrong and when I hard
>coded my uri:
>- --line of code follows:
>member_url = 'http://lists.xxxx.net/admin.cgi/yyyy-xxxx.net/members'
>- --end
>it works as expected.


There was a bug in processing the --url_path option. '-u /admin.cgi'
would have worked, but --url_path was completely broken (the option
list was missing a comma between "url_path=" and "verbose"). It is
fixed now on the web sites.


>2. The script had problems finding all the letters - it only processed
>the first one present in the membership list.  This sloppy change just
>before the while loop that gets the chunks worked:
>- --line of code follows:
>letters = "2ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ"
>- --end


This is because you hard coded member_url. In so doing, you left
url_path with it's default '/mailman/admin' value which makes it
impossible for the parser in the script to find the letters.

If you get the corrected script, you should be able to run it with the
'--url_path /admin.cgi' option and everything should work.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Brandon at WebsterRidge.com  Mon Feb  4 00:28:36 2008
From: Brandon at WebsterRidge.com (Brandon Sussman)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 18:28:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to get the list of members in a list
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008020314034203757382f001@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008020314034203757382f001@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47A64E24.3050503@WebsterRidge.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Mark Sapiro wrote:
| Brandon Sussman wrote:
|> | See
|> | <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>.
|> |
|> I have been playing with your script referenced in that faq.
|
| If you get the corrected script, you should be able to run it with the
| '--url_path /admin.cgi' option and everything should work.

Thanks - works just fine now!
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From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  4 00:39:32 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 15:39:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] managing pending subscriptions and confirmations
In-Reply-To: <B6F3805F-3FA3-45D6-8FE0-37E9E4F0BA63@Bytesmiths.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802031539320375b9c2c577@msapiro>

Jan Steinman wrote:
>
>I have successfully gone through the subscription process with several  
>alias addresses, so I know that it works -- at least from within my LAN.
>
>I can only surmise that the confirmation messages are languishing in  
>people's spam mailbox.


Or they are discarding or ignoring them because they don't realize what
they are.


>Any clues, hints, or techniques for having mailman self-subscriptions  
>without getting the confirmation stuck in spam filters?


First, you need to determine if that is really the problem.


>I tried using the "listname-join" email address technique, but the  
>confirmation comes back as from "listname-request", so it seems spam  
>filters that allow replies to addresses previously sent to won't help  
>here. Is there a way to make the "From:" address "listname-join"  
>instead? (This should not cause any problems, because "Reply-To:"  
>would still be "listname-request".)


There are two kinds of confirmations depending on the setting of
VERP_CONFIRMATIONS in Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py. The default is No. With
this setting, the confirmation is From: listname-request and the
subject is "confirm xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" where the x's
are a 40 character hex confirmation token.

With = Yes, the from/reply-to is
listname-confirm+xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and the subject is
'Your confirmation is required to join the <listname> mailing list'

There are potential problems with either of these. The first format is
easily overlooked by the recipient because the subject isn't
meaningful to her. The second format may cause problems in delivery
back to Mailman if the Mailman incoming MTA doesn't recognize the '+'
as a special delimiter in the local part of the address.

If you are using the default format, I suggest you set
VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes in mm_cfg.py, and verify that the resulting
confirmations are properly handled by your MTA, and see if that helps.

If you really want to change the From:, you have to edit
Mailman/MailList.py, but if the only reason for doing this is to make
the From: in the confirmation request equal to the To: in the
preceding subscription request, it would be easier to request
subscription by sending an email with subject 'subscribe' to the
listname-request address.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Feb  4 01:42:54 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 18:42:54 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] managing pending subscriptions and confirmations
In-Reply-To: <B6F3805F-3FA3-45D6-8FE0-37E9E4F0BA63@Bytesmiths.com>
References: <B6F3805F-3FA3-45D6-8FE0-37E9E4F0BA63@Bytesmiths.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3cc0f0f6bbb@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/3/08, Jan Steinman wrote:

>  One of my clients is considering using a paid service called "Constant
>  Contact" (http://www.constantcontact.com) because they claim they can
>  get through people's spam filters.

Lots of companies have made claims like this.  In my experience, 
their target market is other companies who want to get their paid 
spam through the spam filters of various recipients.  So, unless you 
want to be lumped in with other spammers who are using a paid service 
to try to get their spam through someone's spam filters, I wouldn't 
recommend using them.

There are services out there that can check to see if your systems 
are on any known black lists, etc... and then report that back to 
you.  They don't help you get spam through someone else's spam 
filters, but they do help you discover when your servers may have 
been accidentally listed on someone else's black lists.  I would 
recommend using services like this, if you don't have the ability to 
do those sorts of things in-house.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Feb  4 03:28:22 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 11:28:22 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  managing pending subscriptions and confirmations
In-Reply-To: <B6F3805F-3FA3-45D6-8FE0-37E9E4F0BA63@Bytesmiths.com>
References: <B6F3805F-3FA3-45D6-8FE0-37E9E4F0BA63@Bytesmiths.com>
Message-ID: <874pcp8ng9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Jan Steinman writes:

 > I seem to be gathering a fair number of unrequited pending  
 > subscriptions on several mailing lists. I see them by grepping for  
 > "pending" in /var/log/mailman/subscribe, and then checking for  
 > corresponding "new" entries. I did this after one of my hosting  
 > clients complained that people were subscribing to her newsletter, but  
 > weren't actually getting added to the mailing list.

 > I can only surmise that the confirmation messages are languishing in  
 > people's spam mailbox.

Seems possible, but I've never seen this.  I think it's more likely
that people are ignoring them, likely because they don't know what
they are.  There are a number of things you can do.

(1) Edit the list signup page to be emphasize that the confirmation
notice *must* be returned, and that it should arrive (or be available
for pickup for those whose mail clients don't auto-refresh) within a
few minutes of requesting subscription.

(2) For clients you trust to know their contacts, you can change the
subscription process to "approve" from "confirm" or "approve and
confirm", so that the user doesn't need to return the confirmation.
You really want diligent clients, though, otherwise *your* service can
get a reputation for spamming (this has been historically the case
with several large providers, where a few complaints from inadvertant
subscribers get your whole IP range banned for their service).

(3) You could edit the subject line of the confirmation request method
to be a lot more friendly and longer.  This would make it more likely
that the users would recognize it for what it is, and also you could
wrap the confirmation number to a second line where it might be less
obtrusive and frightening.

I don't know how well the typical broken-by-design mail clients used
by a lot of "just plain folks" would handle that, though, and it
probably requires hacking the sources.

 > One of my clients is considering using a paid service called "Constant  
 > Contact" (http://www.constantcontact.com) because they claim they can  
 > get through people's spam filters.

Anybody who just wants to "get through" spam filters is a spammer or
aiding and abetting spammers.  Don't associate with them, and firmly
ask your clients not to do so.  A full-service customer relations
consultant who helps with the whole relationship is another matter, of
course.


From djenkins at cs.otago.ac.nz  Mon Feb  4 03:35:23 2008
From: djenkins at cs.otago.ac.nz (Dylan Jenkinson)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 15:35:23 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirming Subscription Requests by Email
Message-ID: <47A679EB.3000309@cs.otago.ac.nz>

Hi,

I am currently working on a website, which has an attached mailing list. 
I have little experience with running mailing lists, but it has fallen 
to me to get the participant verification system up and running, and 
part of that includes auto-confirming subscriptions to the mailing list.

So, what I would like to know is: is there a way to confirm a 
subscription request by email, assuming that I will know the users email 
and password?

Thank you,
Dylan Jenkinson

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  4 04:56:45 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 19:56:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirming Subscription Requests by Email
In-Reply-To: <47A679EB.3000309@cs.otago.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802031956450359d39278f4@msapiro>

Dylan Jenkinson wrote:
>
>I am currently working on a website, which has an attached mailing list. 
>I have little experience with running mailing lists, but it has fallen 
>to me to get the participant verification system up and running, and 
>part of that includes auto-confirming subscriptions to the mailing list.
>
>So, what I would like to know is: is there a way to confirm a 
>subscription request by email, assuming that I will know the users email 
>and password?


No. However, if what you want to do is create a web page which will
allow a user to subscribe without having to take any further action,
and without removing the confirmation step normally required for other
subscription methods, you can do that.

See some of the hits from
<http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org+inurl%3Amailman-users+wget>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From marv at startrun.com  Mon Feb  4 09:14:01 2008
From: marv at startrun.com (Marvin Raab)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 00:14:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Cron question
Message-ID: <20080204082046.2FF9B1E4007@bag.python.org>

Hi all,


I've setup ver. 2.1.9 on Fedora 8. I used yum to install (can't find
'configure' but that's not really my question) and configured it using the
docs on the website including the cron section:
% cd $prefix/cron
% crontab -u mailman crontab.in


I repeatedly receive the following email in mailman's mailbox:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: root at mydomain.com (Cron Daemon)
To: mailman at mydomain.com
Subject: Cron <mailman at mail> mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated
X-Cron-Env: <SHELL=/bin/sh>
X-Cron-Env: <HOME=/usr/lib/mailman>
X-Cron-Env: <PATH=/usr/bin:/bin>
X-Cron-Env: <LOGNAME=mailman>
X-Cron-Env: <USER=mailman>

/bin/sh: mailman: command not found
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Some useful(?) info:

# ls -l /usr/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root mailman 10177 2008-01-14 23:57
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news

# grep mailman /etc/passwd
mailman:x:41:41:GNU Mailing List Manager:/usr/lib/mailman:/sbin/nologin

I have not modified the /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in  file:

0 8 * * * mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs
0 9 * * * mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled
0 12 * * * mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests
0 5 1 * * mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds
0,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55 * * * * mailman
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news
27 3 * * * mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip


Can someone point me to a solution or tell me what I've overlooked?
I did search through some of this lists archives but didn't see this
particular problem.


Thanks!









From alxfrag at gmail.com  Mon Feb  4 09:30:02 2008
From: alxfrag at gmail.com (AlxFrag)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 10:30:02 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A small problem when migrating a mailman list
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802010808200015a81aa6c3@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200802010808200015a81aa6c3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47A6CD0A.3050500@gmail.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> AlxFrag wrote:
>   
>> List works ok in the new mail server. The problem is that i cant see it 
>> in http://mydomain/mailman/admin.
>>     
>
>
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.017.htp>
>
>   
i've tried  ./withlist -l -r fix_url mylist -urlhost=mydomain but i 
still can't see the mylist appear in listiinfo.


From lachlan at lkla.org  Mon Feb  4 08:59:38 2008
From: lachlan at lkla.org (Lachlan Michael)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 16:59:38 +0900 (JST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Borks on Large Attachments
Message-ID: <11330.137.153.0.36.1202111978.squirrel@sm.lkla.org>

Dear Mailman List,

I have a problem when using mailman. The problem manifests itself when a
user sends a largish attachment (say 300kB) such as a digital camera
picture to a list. The lists I run are small private groups and if
possible  I would like to allow users to send these kind of attachments.

The server is question is vanilla FreeBSD 6.3 machine, using mailman
2.1.9_5 from ports with sendmail. The machine has 1GB of physical memory.
Python 2.5 is used (default settings). The maximum message size for this
list was set at 150kB, in an effort to stop this problem (which it didn't
seem to do), but I would like to set this limit higher (maybe to 1MB).

> uname -a
FreeBSD  6.3-PRERELEASE FreeBSD 6.3-PRERELEASE #0: Wed Jan  2 18:46:42 JST
2008
> pkg_info | grep mailman
mailman-2.1.9_5     A mailing list manager (MLM) with a user-friendly web
front
>  pkg_info | grep python
python25-2.5.1_1    An interpreted object-oriented programming language

Mailman fails with a "memory error" (see logs below).

This error then caused ALL mail to ALL other lists on the same machine to
be stop being processed, although they were queued and could be sent
later. Eventually some days later I realized that mail was not getting
through and investigated.

A simple restart of mailman did not help, and I found a suspicious file in
qfiles. The suspicious file had a .bak extension I moved it away. Then a
restart of mailman allowed all queued messages to be sent correctly (with
the exception of the suspicious mail file). Using less I saw that the mail
included a large picture file.  There are 11 members in the list that this
mail was sent to. The offending mail file size is shown below (ls -lh).

-rw-rw----   1 mailnull  mailman   599K Jan 30 23:36
1201703766.518079+a5beef9fbd8e4eea60ab77049b3bed4e877a98fc.bak

My questions is, is this a bug, a mis-configuration on my part, or
expected behaviour of mailman under these conditions for this machine
(i.e. am I hitting python or FreeBSD limits)?

My expectation would be that
1) the user gets an error that the file sent was too big
2) all other lists and other mail are not affected

I guess many people would be jumping up and down if this occurred
regularly, so I imagine that this a local configuration problem, but I
would appreciate if anybody had any advice for debugging or changing my
environment to remove this error.

Regards,

Lachlan






Error Logs (/usr/local/mailman/logs/error)
==========================================

Original Error (repeated several times)

Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150): Traceback (most recent call last):
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):      main()
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):      qrunner.run()
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):      msg, msgdata =
self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 164, in dequeue
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):      msg =
email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py", line 51, in
message_from_string
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):      return Parser(_class,
strict=strict).parsestr(s)
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):      return self.parse(StringIO(text),
headersonly=headersonly)
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):      self._parsebody(root, fp,
firstbodyline)
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 240, in _parsebody
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):      msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):      return self.parse(StringIO(text),
headersonly=headersonly)
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):      self._parsebody(root, fp,
firstbodyline)
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 240, in _parsebody
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):      msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):      return self.parse(StringIO(text),
headersonly=headersonly)
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):      self._parsebody(root, fp,
firstbodyline)
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 265, in _parsebody
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):      msg = self.parse(fp)
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):      self._parsebody(root, fp,
firstbodyline)
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 240, in _parsebody
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):      msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):      return self.parse(StringIO(text),
headersonly=headersonly)
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):      self._parsebody(root, fp,
firstbodyline)
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 218, in _parsebody
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150):      payload[start:terminator])
Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 qrunner(1150): MemoryError

Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406): Traceback (most recent call last):
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):      main()
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):      qrunner.run()
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):      msg, msgdata =
self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 164, in dequeue
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):      msg =
email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py", line 51, in
message_from_string
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):      return Parser(_class,
strict=strict).parsestr(s)
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):      return
self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):      self._parsebody(root, fp,
firstbodyline)
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 240, in _parsebody
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):      msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):      return
self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):      self._parsebody(root, fp,
firstbodyline)
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 240, in _parsebody
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):      msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):      return
self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):      self._parsebody(root, fp,
firstbodyline)
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 265, in _parsebody
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):      msg = self.parse(fp)
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):      self._parsebody(root, fp,
firstbodyline)
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 240, in _parsebody
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):      msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):      return
self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):      self._parsebody(root, fp,
firstbodyline)
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 218, in _parsebody
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):      payload[start:terminator])
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.5/re.py", line 157, in split
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406):      return _compile(pattern,
0).split(string, maxsplit)
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 qrunner(41406): MemoryError

After a simple restart of Mailman several days later when investigating
why mail had stopped, the following error appeared in the logs several
times.

Feb 03 08:26:08 2008 (33316) Uncaught runner exception: out of memory
Feb 03 08:26:08 2008 (33316) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
_dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
_dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 111, in
process
    g.flatten(p)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 101, in
flatten
    self._write(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 129, in _write
    self._dispatch(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 155, in
_dispatch
    meth(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 226, in
_handle_multipart
    g.flatten(part, unixfrom=False)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 101, in
flatten
    self._write(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 129, in _write
    self._dispatch(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 155, in
_dispatch
    meth(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 258, in
_handle_multipart
    print >> self._fp, '\n--' + boundary + '--',
MemoryError: out of memory

Finally, the qrunner log suggests that it gave up after several re-tries.

Error Log (/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner)
============================================

Jan 30 23:36:06 2008 (1146) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 1150, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
[restarting]
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 (41406) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 (1146) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 41406, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
[restarting]
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 (41407) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 (1146) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 41407, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
[restarting]
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 (41408) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 (1146) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 41408, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
[restarting]
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 (41409) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Jan 30 23:36:07 2008 (1146) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 41409, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
[restarting]
Jan 30 23:36:08 2008 (41410) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Jan 30 23:36:08 2008 (1146) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 41410, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
[restarting]
Jan 30 23:36:08 2008 (41411) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Jan 30 23:36:08 2008 (1146) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 41411, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
[restarting]
Jan 30 23:36:08 2008 (41412) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Jan 30 23:36:08 2008 (1146) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 41412, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
[restarting]
Jan 30 23:36:08 2008 (41413) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Jan 30 23:36:08 2008 (1146) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 41413, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
[restarting]
Jan 30 23:36:08 2008 (41414) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Jan 30 23:36:09 2008 (1146) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 41414, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
[restarting]
Jan 30 23:36:09 2008 (41415) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Jan 30 23:36:09 2008 (1146) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 41415, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
[restarting]
Jan 30 23:36:09 2008 (1146) Qrunner IncomingRunner reached maximum restart
limit of 10, not restarting.



From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Feb  4 10:14:01 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 18:14:01 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Mailman Cron question
In-Reply-To: <20080204082046.2FF9B1E4007@bag.python.org>
References: <20080204082046.2FF9B1E4007@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <87wsplm6cm.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Marvin Raab writes:

 > I've setup ver. 2.1.9 on Fedora 8. I used yum to install (can't find
 > 'configure' but that's not really my question) and configured it using the
 > docs on the website including the cron section:

yum installations do not conform to the docs on the website.  That's
the whole point of yum, really: doing things Fedora's way, rather than
that of the upstream.  This is really a Fedora question, therefore.

I think this was actually posted most recently about a week ago.  The
problem most likely is that the Mailman install assumes that the
Mailman jobs will be run from the root crontab, which has a different
format from user crontabs.  Specifically, the argument "mailman" is
intended to be a user to su to in a root crontab, while in a user
crontab that field is not present.  yum probably installs it as a user
crontab.

If you just delete the field "mailman" from each command, it will
probably start working.  Maybe.

From srb at umich.edu  Mon Feb  4 13:06:11 2008
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 07:06:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] managing pending subscriptions and confirmations
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c3cc0f0f6bbb@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <B6F3805F-3FA3-45D6-8FE0-37E9E4F0BA63@Bytesmiths.com>
	<p06240801c3cc0f0f6bbb@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <42BD65C833E7C3C4117E09B1@srb.local>

--On February 3, 2008 6:42:54 PM -0600 Brad Knowles 
<brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:

> On 2/3/08, Jan Steinman wrote:
>
> >  One of my clients is considering using a paid service called "Constant
> >  Contact" (http://www.constantcontact.com) because they claim they can
> >  get through people's spam filters.
>
> Lots of companies have made claims like this.  In my experience,
> their target market is other companies who want to get their paid
> spam through the spam filters of various recipients.  So, unless you
> want to be lumped in with other spammers who are using a paid service
> to try to get their spam through someone's spam filters, I wouldn't
> recommend using them.

To which I reply:

For whatever it's worth, I can tell you that Constant Contact can't get 
through everyone's filters.  My wife is on a mailing list that uses 
Constant Contact, and we recently had all sorts of problems getting that 
mail through UM's relatively aggressive "bad mailer" filters.  The mail 
wasn't getting marked as spam, but the behavior of Constant Contact's 
mailer was causing red flags at our end that caused their mail to be 
blocked.

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From gilmore.126 at osu.edu  Mon Feb  4 15:54:57 2008
From: gilmore.126 at osu.edu (Melinda Gilmore)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 09:54:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission problems
Message-ID: <00e601c8673d$e8ff71a0$aef39280@ad.service.osu.edu>

No matter what permission I set and copy from other lists that are ok, I
keep getting this error message.  I must have something to do with the .tmp
part fo the request.pck,  But can't figure out why I am still getting it.
Also, when I got to check that list, that file is not there.

Any directions would be greately appreciated. 

Your "cron" job on lists
/usr/local/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs

produced the following output:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 203, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 100, in main
    mlist.Save()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 560, in Save
    self.SaveRequestsDb()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 129, in
SaveRequestsDb
    self.__closedb()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 106, in __closedb
    fp = open(tmpfile, 'w')
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/usr/local/mailman/lists/sis_directors/request.pck.tmp'


Melinda Gilmore
Systems Engineer
The Ohio State University
Enterprise Messaging/OIT
614-292-4953


From david at hlacik.eu  Mon Feb  4 16:36:14 2008
From: david at hlacik.eu (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?David_Hl=E1=E8ik?=)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 16:36:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News Groups (local) mirrored with mailinglists
Message-ID: <cba415ca0802040736y481eba52pf894a7d9ae4999bf@mail.gmail.com>

Hi to all , i am looking for a solution to provide :

News Groups (local) mirrored with mailinglists
Best solution i see is INN + mailman.

What i am looking for is some script which will make my life easier.

I want to be able to automatically create News Group with same Mailinglist
name .
I want to be able to have a user -based access to a particular news groups.

Thanks in advance!

David

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  4 17:33:09 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 08:33:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Cron question
In-Reply-To: <20080204082046.2FF9B1E4007@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008020408330908282e9c4ba5@msapiro>

Marvin Raab wrote:
>
>I've setup ver. 2.1.9 on Fedora 8. I used yum to install (can't find
>'configure' but that's not really my question) and configured it using the
>docs on the website including the cron section:
>% cd $prefix/cron
>% crontab -u mailman crontab.in


That's your problem. As Stephen points out, when you install a package
via yum, you should not then go to the documentation for installing
the source distribution.

The crontab.in in your package is designed to be installed in
/etc/cron.d/mailman, and in fact, yum may have already put it there.

Again, as Stephen points out, if you install this crontab.in via the
crontab command (which puts it in /var/spool/cron/mailman), you have
to remove the 'mailman' from between the times and the command.

BTW, don't do this without first verifying that there is no
/etc/cron.d/mailman.

>I did search through some of this lists archives but didn't see this
>particular problem.

It's discussed many times. See
<http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org++inurl%3Amailman++crontab+%22mailman%3A+command+not+found%22>.

In particular, see
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-May/044891.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  4 17:43:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 08:43:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A small problem when migrating a mailman list
In-Reply-To: <47A6CD0A.3050500@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802040843080515afebd3ab@msapiro>

AlxFrag wrote:

>i've tried  ./withlist -l -r fix_url mylist -urlhost=mydomain but i 
>still can't see the mylist appear in listiinfo.


Is the list's advertised attribute (under Privacy options... in the web
admin interface) set to Yes?

If so, do

  bin/dumpdb lists/mylist/config.pck | grep \'web_page_url\'

and verify that the host name in the URL fragment matches exactly the
hostname in the URL you use to visit the listinfo page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dpifer at odu.edu  Mon Feb  4 17:32:49 2008
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 11:32:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman issues during migration (test to production)
Message-ID: <1202142769.15983.50.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Hello,

I am having an issue where I am migrating lists/archives/data from one
machine to another machine.  The machine I am migrating from is a Red
Hat Enterprise Linux 3 machine running mailman 2.1.6b4.  Mailman was
built from source code.  The machine I am migrating to is a Red Hat
Linux 5 machine running mailman 2.1.9.  I am using the mailman version
from the RHEL 5 DVDs.  I set up a test list server on the machine (where
eventually would become the production list server) and added a DNS A
record for test.list.odu.edu for the machine it is running on.  I used
the following document (even though it was for Debian it appears to work
for other flavors of Linux) for my information for migrating the
lists/archives/data: 

http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/567

I was successful in testing mailman on the machine. One change I needed
to make was the URL (because the lists contained list.odu.edu), so I
ran:

./withlist -l -r fix_url LIST_NAME -u test.list.odu.edu

to update the URL for each list. 

On Sunday, I attempted to change the test list server to a production
list server, so prior to migrating the lists/archives/data, I removed
all files those directories.  Also, prior to starting mailman and
sendmail, I made changes to mm_cfg.py (when I set up the test listserve)
from:

DEFAULT_HOST_NAME = 'test.list.odu.edu'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = '.test.list.odu.edu'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'test.list.odu.edu'
DEFAULT_URL       = 'http://test.list.odu.edu/'

to:

DEFAULT_HOST_NAME = 'list.odu.edu'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'list.odu.edu'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'list.odu.edu'
DEFAULT_URL       = 'http://list.odu.edu/'

I also made sure the sendmail.cf file on the new machine had:

C{mailman} list.odu.edu

When I started sendmail and mailman, I started to see a lot of messages
in /var/spool/mqueue. The sendmail (qf) queue files had these lines:

...
H??MIME-Version: 1.0
H??Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
H??Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
H??Subject: test.list.odu.edu mailing list memberships reminder
H??From: mailman-owner at test.list.odu.edu
H??To: spawn1882 at yahoo.com
H??X-No-Archive: yes
H??Message-ID: <mailman.4590.1201860028.4212.mailman at test.list.odu.edu>
H??Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:00:28 -0500
H??Precedence: bulk
H??X-BeenThere: mailman at test.list.odu.edu
H??X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
H??List-Id: Mailman site list <mailman.test.list.odu.edu>
...

So, it appears that mailman was trying to send out password reminders
even though it should not have run.  The system is configured to execute
the monthly password reminders only on the first on the month.  Since
the day of the install was Sunday, Feb. 3rd, it should not have run.
Also, to make it more interesting, there are references to "Subject:
test.list.odu.edu mailing list memberships reminder" when there should
not have been.  I searched the entire file system for test.list.odu.edu
but could not find where it was configured.  I even ran `strings' on the
binaries but could not find it.  

My questions are:

1) Why did mailman send out the password reminders, when they shouldn't
have?  As a FYI, I did not add a mailman crontab as the mailman crontab
on Red Hat runs out of /etc/cron.d.

2) Why did the messages contain any reference to test.list.odu.edu?
Where could this information be define?

You answers are appreciated.

Darren
Old Dominion University


From jason at funnel.ca  Mon Feb  4 17:21:49 2008
From: jason at funnel.ca (Jason Bell)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 11:21:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Palm Treo user
In-Reply-To: <cba415ca0802040736y481eba52pf894a7d9ae4999bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3CCA5CD.2E4C%jason@funnel.ca>

I have some users experiencing issues with Palm Treo's. Their e-mails arrive
as attachments instead of text messages. Is there simple solution to this
issue? It seems to be happening on Blackberry's as well.

Please advise.

Jason  Bell
Funnel Communications Inc.



From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  4 18:30:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 09:30:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Borks on Large Attachments
In-Reply-To: <11330.137.153.0.36.1202111978.squirrel@sm.lkla.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008020409300802034d23c4d3@msapiro>

Lachlan Michael wrote:
>
>I have a problem when using mailman. The problem manifests itself when a
>user sends a largish attachment (say 300kB) such as a digital camera
>picture to a list. The lists I run are small private groups and if
>possible  I would like to allow users to send these kind of attachments.
>
>The server is question is vanilla FreeBSD 6.3 machine, using mailman
>2.1.9_5 from ports with sendmail. The machine has 1GB of physical memory.
>Python 2.5 is used (default settings). The maximum message size for this
>list was set at 150kB, in an effort to stop this problem (which it didn't
>seem to do), but I would like to set this limit higher (maybe to 1MB).


Setting max_message_size doesn't help because the error occurs before
the message size is checked.


<snip>
>Mailman fails with a "memory error" (see logs below).
>
>This error then caused ALL mail to ALL other lists on the same machine to
>be stop being processed, although they were queued and could be sent
>later. Eventually some days later I realized that mail was not getting
>through and investigated.
>
>A simple restart of mailman did not help, and I found a suspicious file in
>qfiles. The suspicious file had a .bak extension I moved it away. Then a
>restart of mailman allowed all queued messages to be sent correctly (with
>the exception of the suspicious mail file).


This part of the problem is fixed in Mailman 2.1.10b3 which is now
available (see <http://www.list.org/download.html>).

Prior to Mailman 2.1.9, the error would have occurred once and the
message would have been lost. Beginning in 2.1.9, a queue file
backup/recovery mechanism was implemented which allowed messages that
were in process when a crash occurred to be recovered, but the problem
here is that if the message itself causes the crash, a loop occurs
such as you experienced. This is addressed in 2.1.10b3 by counting the
number of times a .bak file has been recovered and moving it aside
after 3 tries.

It would be wonderful if you could install the latest
Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py from
<http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/files>
and see if this mitigates the problem.



>Using less I saw that the mail
>included a large picture file.  There are 11 members in the list that this
>mail was sent to. The offending mail file size is shown below (ls -lh).
>
>-rw-rw----   1 mailnull  mailman   599K Jan 30 23:36
>1201703766.518079+a5beef9fbd8e4eea60ab77049b3bed4e877a98fc.bak
>
>My questions is, is this a bug, a mis-configuration on my part, or
>expected behaviour of mailman under these conditions for this machine
>(i.e. am I hitting python or FreeBSD limits)?


MemoryError is beyond the control of both Mailman and Python. Python is
requesting additional memory form the OS for the process and is being
denied. This is some kind of hardware or OS limitation. It could be
that the OS itself is running out of real or virtual memory or the
process is running into some process limit. This is a FreeBSD question.


>My expectation would be that
>1) the user gets an error that the file sent was too big


We can't do that in this case, because we haven't successfully parsed
the message so we don't even know who the sender is. If there were no
MemoryError, and the message just exceeded max_message_size, this is
exactly what would happen.


>2) all other lists and other mail are not affected


The 2.1.10b3 fix addresses this. However, the way things are currently
set, Incoming runner will crash 3 times before moving this message
aside. If this happens again with a second message, IncomingRunner
will crash 3 more times. On the fourth such message, IncomingRunner
will reach its limit of 10 restarts, so if these errors continue,
Mailman's mail processing will eventually stop.


>I guess many people would be jumping up and down if this occurred
>regularly, so I imagine that this a local configuration problem, but I
>would appreciate if anybody had any advice for debugging or changing my
>environment to remove this error.


500KB is not a big message. This should not be happening. I am only
guessing, but I think there must be some per-process memory limitation
in your OS that is set way too low.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  4 18:51:09 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 09:51:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission problems
In-Reply-To: <00e601c8673d$e8ff71a0$aef39280@ad.service.osu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802040951090375a5dc15c0@msapiro>

Melinda Gilmore wrote:

>No matter what permission I set and copy from other lists that are ok, I
>keep getting this error message.  I must have something to do with the .tmp
>part fo the request.pck,  But can't figure out why I am still getting it.
>Also, when I got to check that list, that file is not there.
>
>Any directions would be greately appreciated. 
>
>Your "cron" job on lists
>/usr/local/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs
>
>produced the following output:
>
<snip>
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/usr/local/mailman/lists/sis_directors/request.pck.tmp'


cron/checkdbs has found stale data in
/usr/local/mailman/lists/sis_directors/request.pck and is attempting
to update that file. In order to minimize the possibility of
corrupting the file, this is a two step process. First the file
/usr/local/mailman/lists/sis_directors/request.pck.tmp is created and
written with the updated data. Then the request.pck.tmp is renamed to
request.pck.

In your case, the attempt to create the request.pck.tmp fails for lack
of permission, so the file just isn't updated.

Have you checked the owner:group and permissions on the
/usr/local/mailman/lists/sis_directors/ directory and verified that
they are the same as other directories in the
/usr/local/mailman/lists/ directory? The owner and even the owner
permissions aren't that important, but the group should be 'mailman'
and the group permissions 'rws'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  4 19:06:54 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 10:06:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman issues during migration (test to
	production)
In-Reply-To: <1202142769.15983.50.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020080204100654071865b7cbc4@msapiro>

Darren G Pifer wrote:
>
>When I started sendmail and mailman, I started to see a lot of messages
>in /var/spool/mqueue. The sendmail (qf) queue files had these lines:
>
>...
>H??MIME-Version: 1.0
>H??Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>H??Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>H??Subject: test.list.odu.edu mailing list memberships reminder
>H??From: mailman-owner at test.list.odu.edu
>H??To: spawn1882 at yahoo.com
>H??X-No-Archive: yes
>H??Message-ID: <mailman.4590.1201860028.4212.mailman at test.list.odu.edu>
>H??Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:00:28 -0500
>H??Precedence: bulk
>H??X-BeenThere: mailman at test.list.odu.edu
>H??X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
>H??List-Id: Mailman site list <mailman.test.list.odu.edu>
>...
>
>So, it appears that mailman was trying to send out password reminders
>even though it should not have run.  The system is configured to execute
>the monthly password reminders only on the first on the month.  Since
>the day of the install was Sunday, Feb. 3rd, it should not have run.


The password reminders were generated for the test lists on Feb 1 at
05:00

>H??Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:00:28 -0500


Apparently, the crontab was installed so cron/mailpasswds ran and
generated the reminders which were queued, and when you started
mailman they were sent.

>
>My questions are:
>
>1) Why did mailman send out the password reminders, when they shouldn't
>have?  As a FYI, I did not add a mailman crontab as the mailman crontab
>on Red Hat runs out of /etc/cron.d.



See above.



>2) Why did the messages contain any reference to test.list.odu.edu?
>Where could this information be define?


Because the reminders were created on Feb 1 when you still had the test
lists on the server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Mon Feb  4 19:07:38 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 13:07:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + STARTTLS = lost messages?
Message-ID: <47A7546A.7000904@Media-Brokers.com>

Hello,

Ok, I googled and FAQ'd but didn't find the answer - if I missed it, a 
rtfa reference will be appreciate...

We outsource our anti-spam service, and I decided to lock it down by 
requiring TLS encrypted sessions to my postfix server. I did this on 
Saturday.

This morning, I discovered that messages to our lists weren't being 
delivered, and found the following errors in the smtp-failyre log:

Feb 04 08:00:05 2008 (7453) SMTP session failure: 530, 5.7.0 Must issue 
a STARTTLS command first, msgid: 
<mailman.0.1202130003.4596.mailman at myhost.mydomain.com>

Are these messages gone? Or is there a way to get mailman to reinject 
them? It wouldn't be the end of the world, as there were only a few, but 
there are two I'd like to recover if possible.

Thanks,

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Mon Feb  4 19:17:18 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 13:17:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + STARTTLS
Message-ID: <47A756AE.5070809@Media-Brokers.com>

Hello,

Ok, I googled and FAQ'd but didn't find the answer - if I missed it, a
rtfa reference will be appreciate...

We outsource our anti-spam service, and I'd to lock down my postfix 
server by requiring TLS encrypted sessions.

I discovered that mailman doesn't like this...

How do I tell mailman to use TLS?

Thanks,

-- 

Best regards,

Charles


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Feb  4 19:18:24 2008
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 19:18:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + STARTTLS
In-Reply-To: <47A756AE.5070809@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <47A756AE.5070809@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <20080204181824.GC22300@charite.de>

* Charles Marcus <CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com>:
> Hello,
> 
> Ok, I googled and FAQ'd but didn't find the answer - if I missed it, a
> rtfa reference will be appreciate...
> 
> We outsource our anti-spam service, and I'd to lock down my postfix 
> server by requiring TLS encrypted sessions.
> 
> I discovered that mailman doesn't like this...
> 
> How do I tell mailman to use TLS?

I let mailman talk to localhost, and postfix on localhost does all the
TLS stuff

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                    send no mail to plonk at charite.de

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  4 19:22:45 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 10:22:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Palm Treo user
In-Reply-To: <C3CCA5CD.2E4C%jason@funnel.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802041022450796cd4aaf89@msapiro>

Jason Bell wrote:

>I have some users experiencing issues with Palm Treo's. Their e-mails arrive
>as attachments instead of text messages. Is there simple solution to this
>issue? It seems to be happening on Blackberry's as well.


Does your list define a msg_header? If so, under some circumstances
(see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp>
which talks about msg_footer, but also applies to msg_header), the
message will be sent with the msg_header in a separate MIME part. This
will cause some MUAs to see the header as the message body and the
rest of the message as an attachment.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  4 19:38:03 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 10:38:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + STARTTLS
In-Reply-To: <20080204181824.GC22300@charite.de>
Message-ID: <PC176020080204103803081201b40f8f@msapiro>

Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:

>* Charles Marcus <CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com>:
>> Hello,
>> 
>> Ok, I googled and FAQ'd but didn't find the answer - if I missed it, a
>> rtfa reference will be appreciate...
>> 
>> We outsource our anti-spam service, and I'd to lock down my postfix 
>> server by requiring TLS encrypted sessions.
>> 
>> I discovered that mailman doesn't like this...
>> 
>> How do I tell mailman to use TLS?
>
>I let mailman talk to localhost, and postfix on localhost does all the
>TLS stuff


That seems like the easiest way.

Otherwise, you'd need to modify Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to add a
starttls call in the __connect method in the Connection class (see
<http://docs.python.org/lib/SMTP-objects.html>).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  4 19:45:07 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 10:45:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission problems
In-Reply-To: <014701c8675b$c49fc8f0$aef39280@ad.service.osu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802041045070171b7800432@msapiro>

Melinda Gilmore wrote:

>All permissions are the same as the others and have rws.   I guess I should
>mention that along with that error I get 4 other emails.  These are  just
>the last error line as in the other one.
>
> 
>OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/usr/local/mailman/lists/sis_directors/digest.mbox
>
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/usr/local/mailman/lists/sis_directors/config.pck.tmp.lists.3935
>
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/usr/local/mailman/lists/sis_directors/request.pck.tmp'
>
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mailman/2007-October.txt.gz'


Have you run bin/check_perms? If not, try that. Also, are the cron jobs
run as the 'mailman' user?

Did this just start happenning? If so, what changed?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From marv at startrun.com  Mon Feb  4 20:09:59 2008
From: marv at startrun.com (Marvin Raab)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:09:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Cron question FIXED
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008020408330908282e9c4ba5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080204191007.B22031E4026@bag.python.org>

Thanks to Steve, Stephen, and Mark!



To resolve the problem, I had root use:  crontab -u mailman -e
and manually edited the file; removing the mailman field

In Fedora 8 using yum to install, it appears that stopping and restarting
the mailman service does not copy the crontab.in file to the mailman user's
crontab.

Again, thanks for the pointers!

 


From ratnaweera at dplanet.ch  Mon Feb  4 20:23:56 2008
From: ratnaweera at dplanet.ch (Visvanath Ratnaweera)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 20:23:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails not archived (was Needs help during
	tranisition SOLVED)
In-Reply-To: <20080203165429.GA13574@mituru>
References: <20080202224239.GA8381@mituru>
	<PC17602008020215365805460a7b935c@msapiro>
	<20080203081707.GA7389@mituru> <20080203165429.GA13574@mituru>
Message-ID: <20080204192356.GA7499@mituru>

Hi all

Only later I noticed that one small step is still missing: The mails
are not archived!

I issued # bin/check_perms -f and got a whole lot of messages like:
...
article db files must be 0660: /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/
/database/2006-March-article (fixing)

During the second run it only says:
Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).

The testmails are also delivered. But not archived. What could
be missing?

regards
Visvanath


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Mon Feb  4 20:26:09 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 14:26:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + STARTTLS
In-Reply-To: <20080204181824.GC22300@charite.de>
References: <47A756AE.5070809@Media-Brokers.com>
	<20080204181824.GC22300@charite.de>
Message-ID: <47A766D1.8080200@Media-Brokers.com>

Ralf Hildebrandt, on 2/4/2008 1:18 PM, said the following:
>> How do I tell mailman to use TLS?

> I let mailman talk to localhost, and postfix on localhost does all the
> TLS stuff

Thanks Ralf,

Hmmm... ok, the default is supposed to be localhost... I'm not 
over-riding SMTPHOST in mm_cfg_py... and I confirmed that it is still 
set to localhost in Defaults.py (yes, I know not to change these, I just 
wanted to make sure it was set correctly there).

So, the question is, why do I get these errors when I enforce TLS on 
port 25?

I'm guessing this is a postfix issue then?

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  4 20:39:57 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:39:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Cron question FIXED
In-Reply-To: <20080204191007.B22031E4026@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802041139570828afebd515@msapiro>



----- Original Message ---------------

Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Cron question FIXED
   From: "Marvin Raab" <marv at startrun.com>
   Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:09:59 -0800
     To: <mailman-users at python.org>

>Thanks to Steve, Stephen, and Mark!
>
>
>
>To resolve the problem, I had root use:  crontab -u mailman -e
>and manually edited the file; removing the mailman field
>
>In Fedora 8 using yum to install, it appears that stopping and restarting
>the mailman service does not copy the crontab.in file to the mailman user's
>crontab.


But does it copy it to /etc/cron.d/mailman? If so, you will be running
duplicates of all the cron jobs which will result in duplicate
password reminders and admin notices and other problems.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  4 20:44:47 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:44:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + STARTTLS
In-Reply-To: <47A766D1.8080200@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802041144470718afebd49d@msapiro>

Charles Marcus wrote:
>
>So, the question is, why do I get these errors when I enforce TLS on 
>port 25?


Ralf is suggesting that you not enforce TLS on SMTP transactions from
localhost to Postfix on localhost.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  4 20:48:50 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:48:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails not archived (was Needs help
	duringtranisition SOLVED)
In-Reply-To: <20080204192356.GA7499@mituru>
Message-ID: <PC176020080204114850020363687f5d@msapiro>

Visvanath Ratnaweera wrote:
>
>Only later I noticed that one small step is still missing: The mails
>are not archived!
>
>I issued # bin/check_perms -f and got a whole lot of messages like:
>...
>article db files must be 0660: /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/
>/database/2006-March-article (fixing)
>
>During the second run it only says:
>Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
>
>The testmails are also delivered. But not archived. What could
>be missing?


Is ArchRunner running?

Are the list's archive attribute set to Yes?

Are there errors in Mailman's error log?

Are there files in qfiles/archive/ waiting processing?


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Mon Feb  4 21:01:35 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 15:01:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lost messages? Changing subject...
In-Reply-To: <47A7546A.7000904@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <47A7546A.7000904@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <47A76F1F.2060103@Media-Brokers.com>

I'm re-sending this because the subject was too close to the other one,
but its a different problem...

Charles Marcus, on 2/4/2008 1:07 PM, said the following:
> This morning, I discovered that messages to our lists weren't being 
> delivered, and found the following errors in the smtp-failure log:
> 
> Feb 04 08:00:05 2008 (7453) SMTP session failure: 530, 5.7.0 Must issue 
> a STARTTLS command first, msgid: 
> <mailman.0.1202130003.4596.mailman at myhost.mydomain.com>
> 
> Are these messages gone? Or is there a way to get mailman to reinject 
> them? It wouldn't be the end of the world, as there were only a few, but 
> there are two I'd like to recover if possible.

Thanks,

-- 

Best regards,

Charles


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  4 21:43:12 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 12:43:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lost messages? Changing subject...
In-Reply-To: <47A76F1F.2060103@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802041243120000e6b1258c@msapiro>

Charles Marcus wrote:

>I'm re-sending this because the subject was too close to the other one,
>but its a different problem...
>
>Charles Marcus, on 2/4/2008 1:07 PM, said the following:
>> This morning, I discovered that messages to our lists weren't being 
>> delivered, and found the following errors in the smtp-failure log:
>> 
>> Feb 04 08:00:05 2008 (7453) SMTP session failure: 530, 5.7.0 Must issue 
>> a STARTTLS command first, msgid: 
>> <mailman.0.1202130003.4596.mailman at myhost.mydomain.com>
>> 
>> Are these messages gone? Or is there a way to get mailman to reinject 
>> them? It wouldn't be the end of the world, as there were only a few, but 
>> there are two I'd like to recover if possible.


Assuming standard archiving settings, the messages are in the
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file(s) (and in the list
archives), but the out queue entry which contained the message with
the recipient list is gone. Depending on digest settings and whether a
digest has been produced, the messages may also be in the
lists/listname/digest.mbox file(s).

If you can build a list of recipients, you could extract the messages
into individual files and use /usr/sbin/sendmail to resend them.

You could also use Mailman's bin/inject to reintroduce them to
Mailman's in queue, but you need to remove things like Mailman's
X-BeenThere header first. Also this will result in the messages being
added a second time to archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox
(and the digest), although the duplicate Message-Id will probably
result in their not being duplicated in the HTML archive.

You could also just send a message to the list(s) apologizing for the
lost messages and referring people to the archives.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Mon Feb  4 21:53:31 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 15:53:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lost messages? Changing subject...
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802041243120000e6b1258c@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200802041243120000e6b1258c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47A77B4B.3020505@Media-Brokers.com>

On 2/4/2008, Mark Sapiro (mark at msapiro.net) wrote:
> Assuming standard archiving settings,

You know the old saying...

Because of the nature of these lists, archiving has always been disabled.

So, I gather from what you said, the messages are gone. Thankfully this 
isn't a big problem, even if it goes for a day or two - though it is 
inconvenient.

Thanks for the response (even if its not what I wanted to hear) ;)

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From ratnaweera at dplanet.ch  Mon Feb  4 22:19:18 2008
From: ratnaweera at dplanet.ch (Visvanath Ratnaweera)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 22:19:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails not archived
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080204114850020363687f5d@msapiro>
References: <20080204192356.GA7499@mituru>
	<PC176020080204114850020363687f5d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080204211918.GA10145@mituru>

Hi Mark

Ref: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 04.02.2008 20:53
> Visvanath Ratnaweera wrote:
> >
> >The testmails are also delivered. But not archived. What could
> >be missing?
> 
> 
> Is ArchRunner running?

That was it! It did a lot of processing. At the end "Feb 2008" 
archive appeared with the second test-mail. The first test-mail, 
which was also delivered, is not there. It doesn't matter.

> Are the list's archive attribute set to Yes?

Yes. From the beginning.

> Are there errors in Mailman's error log?

Only one:
---
Feb 04 20:12:26 2008 (16531) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13] Permission de
nied: '/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/OURLIST/database/2008-February-date.l
ock.dskt6990.16531.1'
...
---

> Are there files in qfiles/archive/ waiting processing?

Is empty.

Thank you very much. You saved our LUG! :-)

regards
Visvaanath

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Feb  4 22:56:33 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 06:56:33 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] managing pending subscriptions and confirmations
In-Reply-To: <42BD65C833E7C3C4117E09B1@srb.local>
References: <B6F3805F-3FA3-45D6-8FE0-37E9E4F0BA63@Bytesmiths.com>
	<p06240801c3cc0f0f6bbb@[192.168.1.199]>
	<42BD65C833E7C3C4117E09B1@srb.local>
Message-ID: <87zlugwfla.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Steve Burling writes:

 > wasn't getting marked as spam, but the behavior of Constant Contact's 
 > mailer was causing red flags at our end that caused their mail to be 
 > blocked.

Ooh! yeahhhh.  UM always did play tough "D"!

Former-OSU-prof-shouldn't-find-much-to-like-about-UM-but-I-*like*-it-ly y'rs,

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Feb  4 23:05:42 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 07:05:42 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Palm Treo user hijacks thread
In-Reply-To: <C3CCA5CD.2E4C%jason@funnel.ca>
References: <cba415ca0802040736y481eba52pf894a7d9ae4999bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3CCA5CD.2E4C%jason@funnel.ca>
Message-ID: <87y7a0wf61.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Please don't hijack threads.  Unless you know how to avoid that, that
means it is *rude* to reply to an unrelated message, *especially* if
you change the subject.  In a threading MUA, it will appear that the
original message has already been answered, and their problem may get no
attention.

Please check out the original message entitled "News Groups (local)
mirrored with mailinglists".  (Unfortunately I can't do more than
redirect attention to it.)

From lachlan at lkla.org  Tue Feb  5 01:00:13 2008
From: lachlan at lkla.org (Lachlan Michael)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 09:00:13 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Borks on Large Attachments
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008020409300802034d23c4d3@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008020409300802034d23c4d3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47A7A70D.90102@lkla.org>

Mark Sapiro ????????:
> Lachlan Michael wrote:
>   
>> I have a problem when using mailman. The problem manifests itself when a
>> user sends a largish attachment (say 300kB) such as a digital camera
>> picture to a list. The lists I run are small private groups and if
>> possible  I would like to allow users to send these kind of attachments.
>>
>> The server is question is vanilla FreeBSD 6.3 machine, using mailman
>> 2.1.9_5 from ports with sendmail. The machine has 1GB of physical memory.
>> Python 2.5 is used (default settings). The maximum message size for this
>> list was set at 150kB, in an effort to stop this problem (which it didn't
>> seem to do), but I would like to set this limit higher (maybe to 1MB).
>>     
>
>
> Setting max_message_size doesn't help because the error occurs before
> the message size is checked.
>
>
> <snip>
>   
>> Mailman fails with a "memory error" (see logs below).
>>
>> This error then caused ALL mail to ALL other lists on the same machine to
>> be stop being processed, although they were queued and could be sent
>> later. Eventually some days later I realized that mail was not getting
>> through and investigated.
>>
>> A simple restart of mailman did not help, and I found a suspicious file in
>> qfiles. The suspicious file had a .bak extension I moved it away. Then a
>> restart of mailman allowed all queued messages to be sent correctly (with
>> the exception of the suspicious mail file).
>>     
>
>
> This part of the problem is fixed in Mailman 2.1.10b3 which is now
> available (see <http://www.list.org/download.html>).
>
> Prior to Mailman 2.1.9, the error would have occurred once and the
> message would have been lost. Beginning in 2.1.9, a queue file
> backup/recovery mechanism was implemented which allowed messages that
> were in process when a crash occurred to be recovered, but the problem
> here is that if the message itself causes the crash, a loop occurs
> such as you experienced. This is addressed in 2.1.10b3 by counting the
> number of times a .bak file has been recovered and moving it aside
> after 3 tries.
>
> It would be wonderful if you could install the latest
> Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py from
> <http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/files>
> and see if this mitigates the problem.
>
>
>   
Ok, I will definitely try this.

>> Using less I saw that the mail
>> included a large picture file.  There are 11 members in the list that this
>> mail was sent to. The offending mail file size is shown below (ls -lh).
>>
>> -rw-rw----   1 mailnull  mailman   599K Jan 30 23:36
>> 1201703766.518079+a5beef9fbd8e4eea60ab77049b3bed4e877a98fc.bak
>>
>> My questions is, is this a bug, a mis-configuration on my part, or
>> expected behaviour of mailman under these conditions for this machine
>> (i.e. am I hitting python or FreeBSD limits)?
>>     
>
>
> MemoryError is beyond the control of both Mailman and Python. Python is
> requesting additional memory form the OS for the process and is being
> denied. This is some kind of hardware or OS limitation. It could be
> that the OS itself is running out of real or virtual memory or the
> process is running into some process limit. This is a FreeBSD question.
>
>
>   
Ok, I will take this question over to the FreeBSD lists.
>> My expectation would be that
>> 1) the user gets an error that the file sent was too big
>>     
>
>
> We can't do that in this case, because we haven't successfully parsed
> the message so we don't even know who the sender is. If there were no
> MemoryError, and the message just exceeded max_message_size, this is
> exactly what would happen.
>
>
>   
>> 2) all other lists and other mail are not affected
>>     
>
>
> The 2.1.10b3 fix addresses this. However, the way things are currently
> set, Incoming runner will crash 3 times before moving this message
> aside. If this happens again with a second message, IncomingRunner
> will crash 3 more times. On the fourth such message, IncomingRunner
> will reach its limit of 10 restarts, so if these errors continue,
> Mailman's mail processing will eventually stop.
>
>
>   
Great!
>> I guess many people would be jumping up and down if this occurred
>> regularly, so I imagine that this a local configuration problem, but I
>> would appreciate if anybody had any advice for debugging or changing my
>> environment to remove this error.
>>     
>
>
> 500KB is not a big message. This should not be happening. I am only
> guessing, but I think there must be some per-process memory limitation
> in your OS that is set way too low.
>
>   
My suspicion is something like that too, although from all the tests I 
have done the memory itself seems good.

Thanks again for your kind explanation and help. Mailman is a great 
piece of software.

Lachlan

From javiabd at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  5 04:54:43 2008
From: javiabd at yahoo.com (Abdul Javid)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 19:54:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question on unsubscribe
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802041139570828afebd515@msapiro>
Message-ID: <369171.31032.qm@web63715.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Hi 
  I have question on unsubcribe.
   
  I get few emails from mailman-bounces@<list,org> wtih subjectect "<listname> unsubcription  result.
   
  the content is the email id that got unsubribed.
   
  Is there a way to know if this unsubcription happened due to invalid email id or user initiated the unsubcripton.
   
  thanks


       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  5 05:13:36 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 20:13:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question on unsubscribe
In-Reply-To: <369171.31032.qm@web63715.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802042013360656332c1f74@msapiro>

Abdul Javid wrote:

>Hi 
>  I have question on unsubcribe.
>   
>  I get few emails from mailman-bounces@<list,org> wtih subjectect "<listname> unsubcription  result.
>   
>  the content is the email id that got unsubribed.
>   
>  Is there a way to know if this unsubcription happened due to invalid email id or user initiated the unsubcripton.


If you have access to Mailman's logs, the 'subscribe' log will give the
reason.

Otherwise, if you have bounce_notify_owner_on_disable set to Yes, then
if you were notified of a disable bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings
times bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval days previously, it
was due to bounce, and if you weren't notified of the disable, it
wasn't due to bounce.	

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From marv at startrun.com  Tue Feb  5 08:48:12 2008
From: marv at startrun.com (Marvin Raab)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 23:48:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Cron question FIXED
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802041139570828afebd515@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080205075459.0ABFF1E4006@bag.python.org>

Thanks for the response.


Yup, it does. 

So, I should simply comment out all lines in the crontab.in file?



 

I said:
>To resolve the problem, I had root use:  crontab -u mailman -e and 
>manually edited the file; removing the mailman field
>
>In Fedora 8 using yum to install, it appears that stopping and 
>restarting the mailman service does not copy the crontab.in file to the 
>mailman user's crontab.

Mark Sapiro said:
But does it copy it to /etc/cron.d/mailman? If so, you will be running
duplicates of all the cron jobs which will result in duplicate password
reminders and admin notices and other problems.


From lachlan at lkla.org  Tue Feb  5 12:23:10 2008
From: lachlan at lkla.org (Lachlan Michael)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 20:23:10 +0900 (JST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Borks on Large Attachments
In-Reply-To: <47A7A70D.90102@lkla.org>
References: <PC17602008020409300802034d23c4d3@msapiro>
	<47A7A70D.90102@lkla.org>
Message-ID: <28882.137.153.0.37.1202210590.squirrel@sm.lkla.org>


>> Prior to Mailman 2.1.9, the error would have occurred once and the
>> message would have been lost. Beginning in 2.1.9, a queue file
>> backup/recovery mechanism was implemented which allowed messages that
>> were in process when a crash occurred to be recovered, but the problem
>> here is that if the message itself causes the crash, a loop occurs
>> such as you experienced. This is addressed in 2.1.10b3 by counting the
>> number of times a .bak file has been recovered and moving it aside
>> after 3 tries.
>>
>> It would be wonderful if you could install the latest
>> Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py from
>> <http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/files>
>> and see if this mitigates the problem.
>>
> Ok, I will definitely try this.

Yes, it does solve the problem of processing on the lists stopping
completely. I'll keep that file in my Mailman! Thank-you.

Now to just work out the root cause of the memory errors ...

Lachlan


From barry at list.org  Tue Feb  5 13:08:58 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 07:08:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Borks on Large Attachments
In-Reply-To: <28882.137.153.0.37.1202210590.squirrel@sm.lkla.org>
References: <PC17602008020409300802034d23c4d3@msapiro>
	<47A7A70D.90102@lkla.org>
	<28882.137.153.0.37.1202210590.squirrel@sm.lkla.org>
Message-ID: <9C09EDD5-2B03-4AB8-B6E6-0A4000DCDFCE@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Feb 5, 2008, at 6:23 AM, Lachlan Michael wrote:

> Now to just work out the root cause of the memory errors ...

It's important to remember that Python's email parsing code sucks the  
entire message text into memory and keeps large attachments in memory  
after parsing too.  There could be a number of problems associated  
with this, including a memory leak that causes the raw text to be kept  
even after parsing, or that the attachment is just to big to be kept  
in memory after parsing.

There have been talks over the years about how to modify the email  
package's api's so that it would be possible to store large  
attachments in a separate file outside of core memory, but this has  
yet to be done.  Now would be a good time to look into it again, if we  
have any hopes of getting something like this into Python 2.6 and  
3.0.  However, this isn't the right place to discuss such changes --  
those should happen on Python's email sig: http://www.python.org/sigs/email-sig

Cheers,
- -Barry

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3lpV5w9yQqJfq8WaN9bVkww=
=pmiS
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From ippaso at trashmail.net  Tue Feb  5 15:45:54 2008
From: ippaso at trashmail.net (ippaso)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 15:45:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing qrunner stops working and outgoing
 mails get stuck
Message-ID: <47A876A2.5020600@localdomain>

For some reason my previous posts never reached the mailing list, so I
repost it here, sorry for the delay:


Mark Sapiro ha scritto:

>> Jan 27 13:34:57 2008 (2154) <20080127123401.27408.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
>> to test for 1 recips, completed in 55.860 seconds
>> Jan 27 13:37:21 2008 (2154) <20080127123607.27936.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
>> to test for 1 recips, completed in 63.191 seconds
>
>
> This is highly suspicious. The times above are the time from start to
> finish of the SMTP interaction with Qmail.  These times, particularly
> the last few are HUGE. Why?


After a look at the log of the smtp server (see below), I can guess that
the reason might be an high load on the system due to intense
spamassassin activity: at the time of the error there were 20
connections (the maximum number of allowable concurrent connections) to
the server, which, considering the traffic of our server, highlights a
spamming session.

Is it possible that the reason for the outgoing runner to stop is
related to this huge time or to the system load?



> Somewhere around here (13:37:21 minus 00:01:03.191) OutgoingRunner
> started SMTP delivery of the post to Qmail.


Here is the log from the smtp server for that time, in case it can help:
(qmail is patched to check the 'rcpt to' against a valid addresses list
before accepting a message and to reject during the smtp conversation
the mails which achieve a very high spamassassin spam score)


2008-01-27 13:36:00.396206500 qmail-smtpd: validrcptto RCPT TO:
hovgxnik at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:00.396215500 qmail-smtpd: validrcptto found: @MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:03.361324500 X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-1.25-st-qms: We have
reasons to believe this mail is SPAM
2008-01-27 13:36:03.613234500 X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-1.25-st-qms: We have
reasons to believe this mail is SPAM
2008-01-27 13:36:04.365972500 tcpserver: end 27763 status 256
2008-01-27 13:36:04.365978500 tcpserver: status: 19/20
2008-01-27 13:36:04.365979500 tcpserver: status: 20/20
2008-01-27 13:36:04.365981500 tcpserver: pid 27919 from 202.156.55.133
2008-01-27 13:36:04.365983500 tcpserver: ok 27919 MYDOMAIN:MYDOMAINIP:25
cm133.gamma55.maxonline.com.sg:202.156.55.133::1794
2008-01-27 13:36:04.546585500 tcpserver: end 27792 status 256
2008-01-27 13:36:04.546590500 tcpserver: status: 19/20
2008-01-27 13:36:04.546592500 tcpserver: status: 20/20
2008-01-27 13:36:04.546593500 tcpserver: pid 27920 from 211.158.55.6
2008-01-27 13:36:05.498585500 tcpserver: ok 27920 MYDOMAIN:MYDOMAINIP:25
:211.158.55.6::2133
2008-01-27 13:36:05.498591500 tcpserver: end 27920 status 256
2008-01-27 13:36:05.498593500 tcpserver: status: 19/20
2008-01-27 13:36:05.498594500 tcpserver: status: 20/20
2008-01-27 13:36:05.498596500 tcpserver: pid 27921 from 221.146.194.29
2008-01-27 13:36:05.498598500 tcpserver: ok 27921 MYDOMAIN:MYDOMAINIP:25
:221.146.194.29::1074
2008-01-27 13:36:05.498600500 tcpserver: end 27921 status 256
2008-01-27 13:36:05.498601500 tcpserver: status: 19/20
2008-01-27 13:36:05.499279500 tcpserver: status: 20/20
2008-01-27 13:36:05.499286500 tcpserver: pid 27922 from 89.76.17.147
2008-01-27 13:36:05.499287500 tcpserver: ok 27922 MYDOMAIN:MYDOMAINIP:25
chello089076017147.chello.pl:89.76.17.147::62209
2008-01-27 13:36:06.977693500 X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-1.25-st-qms: We have
reasons to believe this mail is SPAM
2008-01-27 13:36:07.045020500 qmail-smtpd: validrcptto RCPT TO:
capi-gruppo-owner at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:07.045025500 qmail-smtpd: validrcptto found:
capi-gruppo-owner at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:08.709515500 tcpserver: end 27764 status 256
2008-01-27 13:36:08.709521500 tcpserver: status: 19/20
2008-01-27 13:36:08.709523500 tcpserver: status: 20/20
2008-01-27 13:36:08.709526500 tcpserver: pid 27939 from 58.8.90.161
2008-01-27 13:36:08.709528500 tcpserver: ok 27939 MYDOMAIN:MYDOMAINIP:25
ppp-58-8-90-161.revip2.asianet.co.th:58.8.90.161::23932
2008-01-27 13:36:09.239802500 qmail-smtpd: validrcptto RCPT TO:
gruppo at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:09.239808500 qmail-smtpd: validrcptto found: @MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:11.326256500 qmail-smtpd: validrcptto RCPT TO:
hszdzlbsrkvx at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:11.382459500 qmail-smtpd: validrcptto found: @MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:12.198188500 X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-1.25-st-qms: We have
reasons to believe this mail is SPAM
2008-01-27 13:36:13.033921500 tcpserver: end 27835 status 0
2008-01-27 13:36:13.033926500 tcpserver: status: 19/20
2008-01-27 13:36:13.033927500 tcpserver: status: 20/20
2008-01-27 13:36:13.033929500 tcpserver: pid 27954 from 221.146.194.29
2008-01-27 13:36:13.033931500 tcpserver: ok 27954 MYDOMAIN:MYDOMAINIP:25
:221.146.194.29::1264
2008-01-27 13:36:13.033933500 tcpserver: end 27858 status 256
2008-01-27 13:36:13.033934500 tcpserver: status: 19/20
2008-01-27 13:36:13.033936500 tcpserver: status: 20/20
2008-01-27 13:36:13.033937500 tcpserver: pid 27956 from 211.158.55.6
2008-01-27 13:36:13.598710500 tcpserver: ok 27956 MYDOMAIN:MYDOMAINIP:25
:211.158.55.6::1232
2008-01-27 13:36:13.989282500 tcpserver: end 27954 status 256
2008-01-27 13:36:13.989290500 tcpserver: status: 19/20
2008-01-27 13:36:13.989291500 tcpserver: status: 20/20
2008-01-27 13:36:13.989293500 tcpserver: pid 27961 from 77.35.19.197
2008-01-27 13:36:13.989295500 tcpserver: ok 27961 MYDOMAIN:MYDOMAINIP:25
:77.35.19.197::1496
2008-01-27 13:36:15.318137500 tcpserver: end 27788 status 0
2008-01-27 13:36:15.318141500 tcpserver: status: 19/20
2008-01-27 13:36:15.318143500 tcpserver: status: 20/20
2008-01-27 13:36:15.318144500 tcpserver: pid 27962 from 195.91.79.251
2008-01-27 13:36:15.318146500 tcpserver: ok 27962 MYDOMAIN:MYDOMAINIP:25
flasmtp.t-mobile.sk:195.91.79.251::2161
2008-01-27 13:36:16.173859500 qmail-smtpd: validrcptto RCPT TO:
uiakjb at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:16.173866500 qmail-smtpd: validrcptto found: @MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:16.606159500 qmail-smtpd: validrcptto RCPT TO:
mailman at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:16.606165500 qmail-smtpd: validrcptto found: @MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:16.657140500 qmail-smtpd: validrcptto RCPT TO:
zona at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:16.657145500 qmail-smtpd: validrcptto found: zona at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:21.880761500 X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-1.25-st-qms: We have
reasons to believe this mail is SPAM
2008-01-27 13:36:22.482554500 tcpserver: end 27919 status 256
2008-01-27 13:36:22.482560500 tcpserver: status: 19/20
2008-01-27 13:36:22.482562500 tcpserver: status: 20/20
2008-01-27 13:36:22.482564500 tcpserver: pid 27995 from 211.158.55.6
2008-01-27 13:36:27.427176500 tcpserver: ok 27995 MYDOMAIN:MYDOMAINIP:25
:211.158.55.6::2179
2008-01-27 13:36:27.427185500 tcpserver: end 27995 status 256
2008-01-27 13:36:27.427187500 tcpserver: status: 19/20
2008-01-27 13:36:27.427189500 tcpserver: status: 20/20
2008-01-27 13:36:27.427191500 tcpserver: pid 27999 from 221.146.194.29
2008-01-27 13:36:27.427192500 tcpserver: ok 27999 MYDOMAIN:MYDOMAINIP:25
:221.146.194.29::1672
2008-01-27 13:36:27.427194500 tcpserver: end 27899 status 256
2008-01-27 13:36:27.427196500 tcpserver: status: 19/20
2008-01-27 13:36:27.427300500 tcpserver: status: 20/20
2008-01-27 13:36:27.427302500 tcpserver: pid 28000 from 211.158.55.6
2008-01-27 13:36:27.427304500 tcpserver: ok 28000 MYDOMAIN:MYDOMAINIP:25
:211.158.55.6::2189
2008-01-27 13:36:27.427306500 qmail-smtpd: validrcptto RCPT TO:
cars-owner at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:27.427307500 qmail-smtpd: validrcptto found:
cars-owner at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:28.538834500 qmail-smtpd: validrcptto RCPT TO: fs at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:28.538840500 qmail-smtpd: validrcptto found: @MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643714500 tcpserver: end 27854 status 0
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643719500 tcpserver: status: 19/20
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643721500 tcpserver: end 27903 status 0
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643722500 tcpserver: status: 18/20
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643724500 tcpserver: status: 19/20
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643726500 tcpserver: pid 28026 from 211.158.55.6
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643727500 tcpserver: status: 20/20
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643729500 tcpserver: pid 28027 from 211.158.55.6
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643730500 tcpserver: end 27902 status 0
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643732500 tcpserver: status: 19/20
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643836500 tcpserver: status: 20/20
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643839500 tcpserver: pid 28029 from 211.158.55.6
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643840500 tcpserver: ok 28026 MYDOMAIN:MYDOMAINIP:25
:211.158.55.6::1217
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643842500 tcpserver: ok 28029 MYDOMAIN:MYDOMAINIP:25
:211.158.55.6::2199
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643844500 tcpserver: end 28026 status 256
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643846500 tcpserver: status: 19/20
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643847500 tcpserver: end 28029 status 256
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643868500 tcpserver: status: 18/20
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643870500 tcpserver: status: 19/20
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643871500 tcpserver: pid 28030 from 82.208.178.201
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643873500 tcpserver: status: 20/20
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643874500 tcpserver: pid 28031 from 77.35.19.197
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643876500 tcpserver: ok 28030 MYDOMAIN:MYDOMAINIP:25
home-037715.b.astral.ro:82.208.178.201::3819
2008-01-27 13:36:31.643878500 tcpserver: end 27922 status 0
2008-01-27 13:36:31.644004500 tcpserver: status: 19/20
2008-01-27 13:36:31.644007500 tcpserver: end 28030 status 256
2008-01-27 13:36:31.644009500 tcpserver: status: 18/20
2008-01-27 13:36:31.644014500 tcpserver: status: 19/20
2008-01-27 13:36:31.644015500 tcpserver: pid 28032 from 58.8.90.161
2008-01-27 13:36:31.644017500 tcpserver: ok 28032 MYDOMAIN:MYDOMAINIP:25
ppp-58-8-90-161.revip2.asianet.co.th:58.8.90.161::24427
2008-01-27 13:36:31.644078500 tcpserver: status: 20/20
2008-01-27 13:36:31.644080500 tcpserver: pid 28033 from 211.158.55.6
2008-01-27 13:36:31.661559500 tcpserver: ok 28027 MYDOMAIN:MYDOMAINIP:25
:211.158.55.6::1256
2008-01-27 13:36:31.661567500 tcpserver: ok 28031 MYDOMAIN:MYDOMAINIP:25
:77.35.19.197::1502
2008-01-27 13:36:31.661570500 tcpserver: ok 28033 MYDOMAIN:MYDOMAINIP:25
:211.158.55.6::1867
2008-01-27 13:36:31.714273500 tcpserver: end 28027 status 256
2008-01-27 13:36:31.714277500 tcpserver: status: 19/20
2008-01-27 13:36:31.714280500 tcpserver: status: 20/20
2008-01-27 13:36:31.854773500 tcpserver: pid 28037 from 221.146.194.29
2008-01-27 13:36:31.856311500 tcpserver: ok 28037 MYDOMAIN:MYDOMAINIP:25
:221.146.194.29::1533
2008-01-27 13:36:33.784573500 qmail-smtpd: validrcptto RCPT TO:
uweia at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:33.784580500 qmail-smtpd: validrcptto found: @MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:34.128424500 qmail-smtpd: validrcptto RCPT TO:
noti-owner at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:34.128432500 qmail-smtpd: validrcptto found:
noti-owner at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:34.254435500 tcpserver: end 27962 status 0
2008-01-27 13:36:34.254440500 tcpserver: status: 19/20
2008-01-27 13:36:34.254442500 tcpserver: status: 20/20
2008-01-27 13:36:34.255429500 tcpserver: pid 28052 from 82.208.178.201
2008-01-27 13:36:34.468302500 X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-1.25-st-qms: We have
reasons to believe this mail is SPAM


> Why the discontinuity in timestamps here?


Sorry, my fault: I grep the log for "13:37"... :-)


>> 
procmail:_[28548]_Sun_Jan_27_13:38:32_2008/procmail:_Assigning_"MAILDIR=/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/mailmanspam/Maildir/.zvb"/procmail:_Couldn't_chdir_to_"/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/mailmanspam/Maildir/.zvb"/procmail:_Assigning_"MAILDIR=."/procmail:_Assigning_"LOGFILE=/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/procmail-mailman.log"/procmail:_Opening_"/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/procmail-mailman.log"/did_0+0+1/
>
> What's going on with these procmail entries for mailman? What's in
> /home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/procmail-mailman.log?


Our server is hosting two different domains, and this error depends on a
misconfiguration of the other domain settings: procmail is trying to
save the spam mail addressed to a list in a mailbox which,
unfortunately, doesn't exist. I will point out this to the postmaster of
that domain.

Unfortunately procmail is not logging the times of the operations in its
log file, so I can't easily find out the specific log entry for
Sun_Jan_27_13:38:32.
(BTW: someone knows how to add timestamps to procmail logs?)

>
>
>
> Questions?
>
> What's going on with procmail?
>
> What if anything is in Mailman's error and smtp-failure logs?


The only entry from 'error' log (when I copied the logs for the previous
post it wasn't here yet...):

Jan 27 14:17:58 2008 (2154) Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost on
port smtp


And here from 'smtp-failure'


Jan 27 14:17:58 2008 (2154) Low level smtp error: (4, 'Interrupted
system call'), msgid: <20080127123803.28436.qmail at MYDOMAIN>


> To try to debug the SMTP interaction with qmail, see
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>
> for a patch that can be applied to Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to
> log additional debug info. You said you have Python 2.4.3 which is
> good - do not use this patch with Python older than 2.4.x.


Ok, thanks: I will patch mailman immediately and post here the 'error'
log as soon as the error appears again.

Thank you,

Paso

From ippaso at trashmail.net  Tue Feb  5 16:13:26 2008
From: ippaso at trashmail.net (ippaso)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:13:26 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing qrunner stops working and outgoing
 mails get stuck
In-Reply-To: <47A876A2.5020600@localdomain>
References: <47A876A2.5020600@localdomain>
Message-ID: <47A87D16.5030909@localdomain>

SP ha scritto:

> Ok, thanks: I will patch mailman immediately and post here the 'error'
> log as soon as the error appears again.

Here the relevant part of mailman 'error' log (the time of the last sent
message is 22.29 and the time of the first message which gets stuck in
qfiles/out is 22.30):


Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): connect:   ('localhost', 25)
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): connect:   ('localhost', 25)
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '220 MYDOMAIN ESMTP\r\n'
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (220); Msg: MYDOMAIN
ESMTP
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): connect:   MYDOMAIN ESMTP
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'ehlo www.MYDOMAIN\r\n'
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-MYDOMAIN\r\n'
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-AUTH LOGIN CRAM-MD5
PLAIN\r\n'
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-AUTH=LOGIN CRAM-MD5
PLAIN\r\n'
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-STARTTLS\r\n'
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-PIPELINING\r\n'
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250 8BITMIME\r\n'
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (250); Msg: MYDOMAIN
AUTH LOGIN CRAM-MD5 PLAIN
AUTH=LOGIN CRAM-MD5 PLAIN
STARTTLS
PIPELINING
8BITMIME
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'mail
FROM:<test-bounces at MYDOMAIN>\r\n'
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250 ok\r\n'
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'rcpt
TO:<mailman-test at MYDOMAIN>\r\n'
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250 ok\r\n'
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'data\r\n'
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '354 go ahead\r\n'
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (354); Msg: go ahead
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): data:   (354, 'go ahead')
Feb 03 22:26:03 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'Return-Path:
<TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN>\r\nDelivered-To: MYDOMAIN-test at MYDOMAIN\r\nReceived:
(qmail 3364 invoked by uid 511); 3 Feb 2008 22:26:02 +0100\r\nDate: 3
Feb 2008 22:26:02 +0100\r\nMessage-ID:
<20080203212602.3363.qmail at MYDOMAIN>\r\nFrom: TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN\r\nTo:
test at MYDOMAIN\r\nSubject: [Test] Test Sun Feb  3 22:26:02 CET
2008\r\nX-BeenThere: test at MYDOMAIN\r\nX-Mailman-Version:
2.1.9\r\nPrecedence: list\r\nList-Id:
<test.MYDOMAIN>\r\nList-Unsubscribe:
<http://MYDOMAIN/mailman/listinfo/test>,\r\n\t<mailto:test-request at MYDOMAIN?subject=unsubscribe>\r\nList-Archive: 

<http://MYDOMAIN/pipermail/test>\r\nList-Post:
<mailto:test at MYDOMAIN>\r\nList-Help:
<mailto:test-request at MYDOMAIN?subject=help>\r\nList-Subscribe:
<http://MYDOMAIN/mailman/listinfo/test>,\r\n\t<mailto:test-request at MYDOMAIN?subject=subscribe>\r\nMIME-Version: 

1.0\r\nContent-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"\r\nContent-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable\r\nSender: test-bounces at MYDOMAIN\r\nErrors-To:
test-bounces at MYDOMAIN\r\n\r\nSun Feb  3 22:26:02 CET
2008\r\n_______________________________________________\r\nTest mailing
list\r\nTest at MYDOMAIN\r\nhttp://MYDOMAIN/mailman/listinfo/test\r\n.\r\n'
Feb 03 22:26:06 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250 ok 1202073966 qp
3369\r\n'
Feb 03 22:26:06 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok
1202073966 qp 3369
Feb 03 22:26:06 2008 qrunner(20175): data:   (250, 'ok 1202073966 qp 3369')
Feb 03 22:26:06 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'quit\r\n'
Feb 03 22:26:06 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '221 MYDOMAIN\r\n'
Feb 03 22:26:06 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (221); Msg: MYDOMAIN
Feb 03 22:29:40 2008 qrunner(20175): connect:   ('localhost', 25)
Feb 03 22:29:40 2008 qrunner(20175): connect:   ('localhost', 25)
Feb 03 22:30:18 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '220 MYDOMAIN ESMTP\r\n'
Feb 03 22:30:18 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (220); Msg: MYDOMAIN
ESMTP
Feb 03 22:30:18 2008 qrunner(20175): connect:   MYDOMAIN ESMTP
Feb 03 22:30:18 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'ehlo www.MYDOMAIN\r\n'
Feb 03 22:30:18 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-MYDOMAIN\r\n'
Feb 03 22:30:18 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-AUTH LOGIN CRAM-MD5
PLAIN\r\n'
Feb 03 22:30:18 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-AUTH=LOGIN CRAM-MD5
PLAIN\r\n'
Feb 03 22:30:18 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-STARTTLS\r\n'
Feb 03 22:30:18 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-PIPELINING\r\n'
Feb 03 22:30:18 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250 8BITMIME\r\n'
Feb 03 22:30:18 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (250); Msg: MYDOMAIN
AUTH LOGIN CRAM-MD5 PLAIN
AUTH=LOGIN CRAM-MD5 PLAIN
STARTTLS
PIPELINING
8BITMIME
Feb 03 22:30:18 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'mail
FROM:<test-bounces at MYDOMAIN>\r\n'
Feb 03 22:30:18 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250 ok\r\n'
Feb 03 22:30:18 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok
Feb 03 22:30:18 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'rcpt
TO:<mailman-test at MYDOMAIN>\r\n'
Feb 03 22:30:19 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250 ok\r\n'
Feb 03 22:30:19 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok
Feb 03 22:30:19 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'data\r\n'
Feb 03 22:30:20 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '354 go ahead\r\n'
Feb 03 22:30:20 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (354); Msg: go ahead
Feb 03 22:30:20 2008 qrunner(20175): data:   (354, 'go ahead')
Feb 03 22:30:20 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'Return-Path:
<TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN>\r\nDelivered-To: MYDOMAIN-test at MYDOMAIN\r\nReceived:
(qmail 3747 invoked by uid 511); 3 Feb 2008 22:27:30 +0100\r\nDate: 3
Feb 2008 22:27:30 +0100\r\nMessage-ID:
<20080203212730.3725.qmail at MYDOMAIN>\r\nFrom: TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN\r\nTo:
test at MYDOMAIN\r\nSubject: [Test] Test Sun Feb  3 22:27:27 CET
2008\r\nX-BeenThere: test at MYDOMAIN\r\nX-Mailman-Version:
2.1.9\r\nPrecedence: list\r\nList-Id:
<test.MYDOMAIN>\r\nList-Unsubscribe:
<http://MYDOMAIN/mailman/listinfo/test>,\r\n\t<mailto:test-request at MYDOMAIN?subject=unsubscribe>\r\nList-Archive: 

<http://MYDOMAIN/pipermail/test>\r\nList-Post:
<mailto:test at MYDOMAIN>\r\nList-Help:
<mailto:test-request at MYDOMAIN?subject=help>\r\nList-Subscribe:
<http://MYDOMAIN/mailman/listinfo/test>,\r\n\t<mailto:test-request at MYDOMAIN?subject=subscribe>\r\nMIME-Version: 

1.0\r\nContent-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"\r\nContent-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable\r\nSender: test-bounces at MYDOMAIN\r\nErrors-To:
test-bounces at MYDOMAIN\r\n\r\nSun Feb  3 22:27:26 CET
2008\r\n_______________________________________________\r\nTest mailing
list\r\nTest at MYDOMAIN\r\nhttp://MYDOMAIN/mailman/listinfo/test\r\n.\r\n'
Feb 03 22:31:22 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250 ok 1202074282 qp
4580\r\n'
Feb 03 22:31:22 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok
1202074282 qp 4580
Feb 03 22:31:22 2008 qrunner(20175): data:   (250, 'ok 1202074282 qp 4580')
Feb 03 22:31:22 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'quit\r\n'
Feb 03 22:31:22 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '221 MYDOMAIN\r\n'
Feb 03 22:31:22 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (221); Msg: MYDOMAIN
Feb 03 22:31:22 2008 qrunner(20175): connect:   ('localhost', 25)
Feb 03 22:31:22 2008 qrunner(20175): connect:   ('localhost', 25)
Feb 03 22:31:50 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '220 MYDOMAIN ESMTP\r\n'
Feb 03 22:31:50 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (220); Msg: MYDOMAIN
ESMTP
Feb 03 22:31:50 2008 qrunner(20175): connect:   MYDOMAIN ESMTP
Feb 03 22:31:50 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'ehlo www.MYDOMAIN\r\n'
Feb 03 22:31:50 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-MYDOMAIN\r\n'
Feb 03 22:31:50 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-AUTH LOGIN CRAM-MD5
PLAIN\r\n'
Feb 03 22:31:50 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-AUTH=LOGIN CRAM-MD5
PLAIN\r\n'
Feb 03 22:31:50 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-STARTTLS\r\n'
Feb 03 22:31:50 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-PIPELINING\r\n'
Feb 03 22:31:50 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250 8BITMIME\r\n'
Feb 03 22:31:50 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (250); Msg: MYDOMAIN
AUTH LOGIN CRAM-MD5 PLAIN
AUTH=LOGIN CRAM-MD5 PLAIN
STARTTLS
PIPELINING
8BITMIME
Feb 03 22:31:50 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'mail
FROM:<test-bounces at MYDOMAIN>\r\n'
Feb 03 22:31:50 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250 ok\r\n'
Feb 03 22:31:50 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok
Feb 03 22:31:50 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'rcpt
TO:<mailman-test at MYDOMAIN>\r\n'
Feb 03 22:31:50 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250 ok\r\n'
Feb 03 22:31:50 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok
Feb 03 22:31:50 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'data\r\n'
Feb 03 22:31:51 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '354 go ahead\r\n'
Feb 03 22:31:51 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (354); Msg: go ahead
Feb 03 22:31:51 2008 qrunner(20175): data:   (354, 'go ahead')
Feb 03 22:31:51 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'Return-Path:
<TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN>\r\nDelivered-To: MYDOMAIN-test at MYDOMAIN\r\nReceived:
(qmail 3907 invoked by uid 511); 3 Feb 2008 22:28:18 +0100\r\nDate: 3
Feb 2008 22:28:07 +0100\r\nMessage-ID:
<20080203212807.3906.qmail at MYDOMAIN>\r\nFrom: TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN\r\nTo:
test at MYDOMAIN\r\nSubject: [Test] Test Sun Feb  3 22:28:07 CET
2008\r\nX-BeenThere: test at MYDOMAIN\r\nX-Mailman-Version:
2.1.9\r\nPrecedence: list\r\nList-Id:
<test.MYDOMAIN>\r\nList-Unsubscribe:
<http://MYDOMAIN/mailman/listinfo/test>,\r\n\t<mailto:test-request at MYDOMAIN?subject=unsubscribe>\r\nList-Archive: 

<http://MYDOMAIN/pipermail/test>\r\nList-Post:
<mailto:test at MYDOMAIN>\r\nList-Help:
<mailto:test-request at MYDOMAIN?subject=help>\r\nList-Subscribe:
<http://MYDOMAIN/mailman/listinfo/test>,\r\n\t<mailto:test-request at MYDOMAIN?subject=subscribe>\r\nMIME-Version: 

1.0\r\nContent-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"\r\nContent-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable\r\nSender: test-bounces at MYDOMAIN\r\nErrors-To:
test-bounces at MYDOMAIN\r\n\r\nSun Feb  3 22:28:07 CET
2008\r\n_______________________________________________\r\nTest mailing
list\r\nTest at MYDOMAIN\r\nhttp://MYDOMAIN/mailman/listinfo/test\r\n.\r\n'
Feb 03 22:32:14 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250 ok 1202074334 qp
5084\r\n'
Feb 03 22:32:14 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok
1202074334 qp 5084
Feb 03 22:32:14 2008 qrunner(20175): data:   (250, 'ok 1202074334 qp 5084')
Feb 03 22:32:14 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'quit\r\n'
Feb 03 22:32:14 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '221 MYDOMAIN\r\n'
Feb 03 22:32:14 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (221); Msg: MYDOMAIN
Feb 03 22:32:14 2008 qrunner(20175): connect:   ('localhost', 25)
Feb 03 22:32:14 2008 qrunner(20175): connect:   ('localhost', 25)
Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '220 MYDOMAIN ESMTP\r\n'
Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (220); Msg: MYDOMAIN
ESMTP
Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): connect:   MYDOMAIN ESMTP
Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'ehlo www.MYDOMAIN\r\n'
Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-MYDOMAIN\r\n'
Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-AUTH LOGIN CRAM-MD5
PLAIN\r\n'
Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-AUTH=LOGIN CRAM-MD5
PLAIN\r\n'
Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-STARTTLS\r\n'
Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-PIPELINING\r\n'
Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250 8BITMIME\r\n'
Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (250); Msg: MYDOMAIN
AUTH LOGIN CRAM-MD5 PLAIN
AUTH=LOGIN CRAM-MD5 PLAIN
STARTTLS
PIPELINING
8BITMIME
Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'mail
FROM:<test-bounces at MYDOMAIN>\r\n'
Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250 ok\r\n'
Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok
Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'rcpt
TO:<mailman-test at MYDOMAIN>\r\n'
Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250 ok\r\n'
Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok
Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'data\r\n'
Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '354 go ahead\r\n'
Feb 03 22:32:56 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (354); Msg: go ahead
Feb 03 22:32:56 2008 qrunner(20175): data:   (354, 'go ahead')
Feb 03 22:32:56 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'Return-Path:
<TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN>\r\nDelivered-To: MYDOMAIN-test at MYDOMAIN\r\nReceived:
(qmail 4288 invoked by uid 511); 3 Feb 2008 22:29:12 +0100\r\nDate: 3
Feb 2008 22:29:12 +0100\r\nMessage-ID:
<20080203212912.4287.qmail at MYDOMAIN>\r\nFrom: TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN\r\nTo:
test at MYDOMAIN\r\nSubject: [Test] Test Sun Feb  3 22:29:12 CET
2008\r\nX-BeenThere: test at MYDOMAIN\r\nX-Mailman-Version:
2.1.9\r\nPrecedence: list\r\nList-Id:
<test.MYDOMAIN>\r\nList-Unsubscribe:
<http://MYDOMAIN/mailman/listinfo/test>,\r\n\t<mailto:test-request at MYDOMAIN?subject=unsubscribe>\r\nList-Archive: 

<http://MYDOMAIN/pipermail/test>\r\nList-Post:
<mailto:test at MYDOMAIN>\r\nList-Help:
<mailto:test-request at MYDOMAIN?subject=help>\r\nList-Subscribe:
<http://MYDOMAIN/mailman/listinfo/test>,\r\n\t<mailto:test-request at MYDOMAIN?subject=subscribe>\r\nMIME-Version: 

1.0\r\nContent-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"\r\nContent-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable\r\nSender: test-bounces at MYDOMAIN\r\nErrors-To:
test-bounces at MYDOMAIN\r\n\r\nSun Feb  3 22:29:12 CET
2008\r\n_______________________________________________\r\nTest mailing
list\r\nTest at MYDOMAIN\r\nhttp://MYDOMAIN/mailman/listinfo/test\r\n.\r\n'
Feb 03 22:33:23 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250 ok 1202074403 qp
5450\r\n'
Feb 03 22:33:23 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok
1202074403 qp 5450
Feb 03 22:33:23 2008 qrunner(20175): data:   (250, 'ok 1202074403 qp 5450')
Feb 03 22:33:23 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'quit\r\n'
Feb 03 22:33:23 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '221 MYDOMAIN\r\n'
Feb 03 22:33:23 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (221); Msg: MYDOMAIN
Feb 03 22:33:23 2008 qrunner(20175): connect:   ('localhost', 25)
Feb 03 22:33:23 2008 qrunner(20175): connect:   ('localhost', 25)








Again at the moment of the failure the system load was high since there
were about 20 simultaneous connections to the smtp server, and
consequently many spamassassins processes, and from the mailman 'smtp'
log again it took many time to deliver the last few messages:


Feb 03 22:25:10 2008 (20175) <20080203212501.3266.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
to test for 1 recips, completed in 3.815 seconds
Feb 03 22:26:06 2008 (20175) <20080203212602.3363.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
to test for 1 recips, completed in 3.451 seconds
Feb 03 22:31:22 2008 (20175) <20080203212730.3725.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
to test for 1 recips, completed in 102.005 seconds
Feb 03 22:32:14 2008 (20175) <20080203212807.3906.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
to test for 1 recips, completed in 52.107 seconds
Feb 03 22:33:23 2008 (20175) <20080203212912.4287.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
to test for 1 recips, completed in 69.000 seconds



No entries in the smtp-failure log, the last lines are dated the day before:


Feb 01 04:00:03 2008 (2154) Low level smtp error: (4, 'Interrupted
system call'), msgid: <mailman.1319.1201822426.2150.sp at MYDOMAIN>
Feb 02 12:36:08 2008 (2154) Low level smtp error: (110, 'Connection
timed out'), msgid: <mailman.1407.1201951977.2150.sp at MYDOMAIN>
Feb 02 12:36:08 2008 (2154) delivery to ADDRESS at MYDOMAIN failed with
code -1: (110, 'Connection timed out')




bye,

Paso


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  5 16:32:19 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 07:32:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Cron question FIXED
In-Reply-To: <20080205075457.A8AF6690982@sbh16.songbird.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080205073219089080a5adcd@msapiro>

Marvin Raab wrote:

>Thanks for the response.
>
>
>Yup, it does. 
>
>So, I should simply comment out all lines in the crontab.in file?
>
>
>
> 
>
>I said:
>>To resolve the problem, I had root use:  crontab -u mailman -e and 
>>manually edited the file; removing the mailman field
>>
>>In Fedora 8 using yum to install, it appears that stopping and 
>>restarting the mailman service does not copy the crontab.in file to the 
>>mailman user's crontab.
>
>Mark Sapiro said:
>But does it copy it to /etc/cron.d/mailman? If so, you will be running
>duplicates of all the cron jobs which will result in duplicate password
>reminders and admin notices and other problems.


No. What you should do is remove your hand installed mailman crontab

  crontab -u mailman -r

and let your yum installed package work as it was intended to.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jacsdad at nc.rr.com  Tue Feb  5 16:19:26 2008
From: jacsdad at nc.rr.com (Thomas J Casey)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 10:19:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still Lost
Message-ID: <002501c8680a$7f125a50$6601a8c0@jacsdad>

I'm not very technical so I need some more help please.  Step me through in
terms that are for dummies like me.  I'll try to explain:

 

I have 20+ Mailing Lists setup with each containing a unique set of
individuals who are to receive email sent to the list.  Some indididuals
need the ability to send email to all mailing lists, while others should
only be authorized to some of them. 

 

Here is where I'm confused.  

 

For each of my lists, I need for certain individuals to be able to be able
to submit to the mailing list but only those that I define.  In the Privacy
Section/Sender Filters/All mailing list administration do I set the By
default, should new list member postings be moderated?  to No then add the
list on individuals to the List of non-member addresses whose postings
should be automatically accepted.  I guess the name 'non-member' is where
I'm confused or should I do something different?

 

In an email from Brad Knowles, he stated: If they are not subscribers, "then
they need to be on the whitelist."  But I cannot find a whitelist anywhere.

 

I'm getting a lot of heat from our Boy Scout Troop's Leaders and need to get
this functional as soon as possible.

 

Thanks ahead of time

 

 
Jacsdad aka Thomas J Casey
 
Upon his retirement, a former NASCAR Winston Cup Champion was quoted: "the
Older I get... the Better I was"
 

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  5 17:47:37 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 08:47:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still Lost
In-Reply-To: <002501c8680a$7f125a50$6601a8c0@jacsdad>
Message-ID: <PC17602008020508473709372e9c4c2e@msapiro>

Thomas J Casey wrote:
>
>For each of my lists, I need for certain individuals to be able to be able
>to submit to the mailing list but only those that I define.  In the Privacy
>Section/Sender Filters/All mailing list administration do I set the By
>default, should new list member postings be moderated?  to No then add the
>list on individuals to the List of non-member addresses whose postings
>should be automatically accepted.  I guess the name 'non-member' is where
>I'm confused or should I do something different?


Here's a step by step for one list.

Go to Membership Management...->Membership List.

Scroll down to Additional Member Tasks.

Under "Set everyone's moderation bit, including those members not
currently visible" select On and click the Set button.

Now all list members are moderated.

Go to Privacy options...->Sender filters.

Set default_member_moderation to Yes so new members will be moderated
by default.

Set member_moderation_action according to how you want a post from an
unauthorized member to be handled, Hold for action by a
owner/moderator, Rejected with a message including the text in
member_moderation_notice, or Discarded with no notice.

If member_moderation_action is Reject, put appropriate text in
member_moderation_notice.

If anyone who is not a list member (subscriber) is to be allowed to
post, add their addresses, one per line to accept_these_nonmembers.
This is the whitelist that Brad mentioned. This only applies to non
members.

Set generic_nonmember_action to Hold, Reject or Discard depending on
how you want to handle posts from non members who aren't authorized to
post.

If you set generic_nonmember_action to Reject, put appropriate text in
nonmember_rejection_notice.

Click the Submit Your Changes button.

Go back to Membership Management...->Membership List.

On each page, uncheck the box in the 'mod' column for those list
members who are allowed to post and click the Submit Your Changes
button.

That's it. When a new member is added who is not authorized to post, no
other action is required. If the new member is authorized to post, do
the step in the previous paragraph for that member.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From greg at headingup.net  Tue Feb  5 17:55:29 2008
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 08:55:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Scripts Associated with Log File Rotation
Message-ID: <001a01c86817$ea62a910$650a2b0a@WS>

Hi There,

 

I have been studying the mailman code this morning to find a way to do some
processing when the mailman logs are rotated.  My goal is to process the
data in /var/log/mailman/subscribe.1 and /var/log/mailman/bounce.1 just
after they are rotated.  I reviewed the file /etc/logrotate.d/mailman on my
RHEL system which seems to control rotating the logs - below is a copy of
the file for reference.

 

/var/log/mailman/bounce /var/log/mailman/digest /var/log/mailman/error
/var/log/mailman/post /var/log/mailman/smtp /var/log/mailman/smtp-failure
/var/log/mailman/qrunner /var/log/mailman/locks /var/log/mailman/fromusenet
/var/log/mailman/subscribe /var/log/mailman/vette {

    missingok

    sharedscripts

    postrotate

        /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl reopen >/dev/null 2>&1 || true

    endscript

}

 

I have a couple of question about doing what I need to without breaking
anything:

 

(1)   The time stamps of the log files on my system are not all the same.
The time stamp of /var/log/mailman/subscribe.1 and /var/log/mailman/bounce.1
are not even on the same day.  This implies that rotation for these files is
happening at different times.  I'm concerned about making one change to the
logrotate.d file above - like adding a line to the postrotate section - as a
result.

(2)   My first concern leads me to break subscribe and bounce into separate
entries in the logrotate.d file.  Is the solution to what I am trying to
accomplish as simple as the following:

a.      Append the existing logrotate.d file to itself two times - resulting
in a file that has three logrotate sections

b.      Delete bounce and subscribe from the first section

c.      Delete all but bounce from the second section & add my script to run
against bounce.1 just before endscript

d.      Delete all but subscribe from the third section & add my script to
run against subscribe.1 just before endscript.

e.      This implies mailmanctl will run three times for each invocation of
logrotate - it only runs once with the distribution file due to
sharedscripts.  Is this OK?

 

Thanks for your assistance with this & helping me not break anything as I
make this enhancement to our production system, Greg


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  5 18:32:41 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 09:32:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Scripts Associated with Log File Rotation
In-Reply-To: <001a01c86817$ea62a910$650a2b0a@WS>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802050932410968f43b0891@msapiro>

Greg Sims wrote:
>
>I have a couple of question about doing what I need to without breaking
>anything:
>
> 
>
>(1)   The time stamps of the log files on my system are not all the same.
>The time stamp of /var/log/mailman/subscribe.1 and /var/log/mailman/bounce.1
>are not even on the same day.  This implies that rotation for these files is
>happening at different times.


No it doesn't. All it says is that at the time subscribe and bounce
were renamed to subscribe.1 and bounce.1, the time stamps on those
files were different.


>I'm concerned about making one change to the
>logrotate.d file above - like adding a line to the postrotate section - as a
>result.
>
>(2)   My first concern leads me to break subscribe and bounce into separate
>entries in the logrotate.d file.


You don't need to do this at all. Your concern is based on an erroneous
assumption.

Just add your processing of the *.1 files after the mailmanctl reopen
line.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From greg at headingup.net  Tue Feb  5 19:33:00 2008
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 10:33:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Scripts Associated with Log File Rotation
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802050932410968f43b0891@msapiro>
References: <001a01c86817$ea62a910$650a2b0a@WS>
	<PC1760200802050932410968f43b0891@msapiro>
Message-ID: <004901c86825$89fe4440$650a2b0a@WS>

I updated the /etc/logrotate.d/mailman file as you suggested.  

Thanks!  Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:33 AM
To: Greg Sims; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Scripts Associated with Log File Rotation

Greg Sims wrote:
>
>I have a couple of question about doing what I need to without breaking
>anything:
>
> 
>
>(1)   The time stamps of the log files on my system are not all the same.
>The time stamp of /var/log/mailman/subscribe.1 and
/var/log/mailman/bounce.1
>are not even on the same day.  This implies that rotation for these files
is
>happening at different times.


No it doesn't. All it says is that at the time subscribe and bounce
were renamed to subscribe.1 and bounce.1, the time stamps on those
files were different.


>I'm concerned about making one change to the
>logrotate.d file above - like adding a line to the postrotate section - as
a
>result.
>
>(2)   My first concern leads me to break subscribe and bounce into separate
>entries in the logrotate.d file.


You don't need to do this at all. Your concern is based on an erroneous
assumption.

Just add your processing of the *.1 files after the mailmanctl reopen
line.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From rtanner at linfield.edu  Tue Feb  5 19:58:02 2008
From: rtanner at linfield.edu (Rob Tanner)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 10:58:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Porting from a 2.1.5 installation to 2.1.7
Message-ID: <47A8B1BA.2020903@linfield.edu>

Hi,

I am retiring a server running Mailman 2.1.5 and need to port  
everything to a server running 2.1.7 (Fedora Core distribution).  Can I 
take the lists directory and simply copy it from one server to another 
(i.e., is the format of the various files the same)?  Is there anything 
else that needs to be copied?

Thanks,
Rob



-- 
Rob Tanner
UNIX Services Manager
Linfield College, McMinnville OR

From mangoo at wpkg.org  Tue Feb  5 20:15:38 2008
From: mangoo at wpkg.org (Tomasz Chmielewski)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:15:38 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding REL="nofollow" in Mailman's archives
Message-ID: <47A8B5DA.7000907@wpkg.org>

As some of the mailing lists I administer experience a steady flow of 
spam, I was looking for a way to add REL="nofollow" attribute to 
Mailman's messages.

As I didn't find a way to do it in Mailman, and I don't know enough of 
Python, I decided to write a simple Perl script which does it.


This is one of my first bites at Perl, so be gentle:

http://wpkg.org/REL=%22nofollow%22_and_Mailman


For some, REL="nofollow" may be controversial, though.


-- 
Tomasz Chmielewski

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  5 20:44:32 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 11:44:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing qrunner stops working and
	outgoingmails get stuck
In-Reply-To: <47A876A2.5020600@localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802051144320109b09eaeed@msapiro>

ippaso wrote:
>
>After a look at the log of the smtp server (see below), I can guess that
>the reason might be an high load on the system due to intense
>spamassassin activity: at the time of the error there were 20
>connections (the maximum number of allowable concurrent connections) to
>the server, which, considering the traffic of our server, highlights a
>spamming session.
>
>Is it possible that the reason for the outgoing runner to stop is
>related to this huge time or to the system load?


Yes, but I have some thoughts based on the smtplib debugs to which I'll
reply next.


>> Somewhere around here (13:37:21 minus 00:01:03.191) OutgoingRunner
>> started SMTP delivery of the post to Qmail.
>
>
>Here is the log from the smtp server for that time, in case it can help:
>(qmail is patched to check the 'rcpt to' against a valid addresses list
>before accepting a message and to reject during the smtp conversation
>the mails which achieve a very high spamassassin spam score)


This appears to be the reason for the large delays when the load is
high. If at all possible, you should not be spam scanning outgoing
mail from Mailman as all such mail is either a Mailman notice or a
post which was already scanned on the way in. In my case for example,
I have tight control over my server, so I don't spam scan any outgoing
mail at all.


<snip>
>>
>> What if anything is in Mailman's error and smtp-failure logs?
>
>
>The only entry from 'error' log (when I copied the logs for the previous
>post it wasn't here yet...):
>
>Jan 27 14:17:58 2008 (2154) Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost on
>port smtp
>
>
>And here from 'smtp-failure'
>
>
>Jan 27 14:17:58 2008 (2154) Low level smtp error: (4, 'Interrupted
>system call'), msgid: <20080127123803.28436.qmail at MYDOMAIN>


Was this at the time that you restarted Mailman?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  5 21:39:43 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 12:39:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing qrunner stops working and
	outgoingmails get stuck
In-Reply-To: <47A87D16.5030909@localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC176020080205123943053178d0537e@msapiro>

ippaso wrote:

>SP ha scritto:
>
>> Ok, thanks: I will patch mailman immediately and post here the 'error'
>> log as soon as the error appears again.
>
>Here the relevant part of mailman 'error' log (the time of the last sent
>message is 22.29 and the time of the first message which gets stuck in
>qfiles/out is 22.30):



<snip>


The following are the connect to start sending the last message
successfully sent.

>Feb 03 22:32:14 2008 qrunner(20175): connect:   ('localhost', 25)
>Feb 03 22:32:14 2008 qrunner(20175): connect:   ('localhost', 25)


Qmail is busy here too. Reply to connect takes 41 seconds.


>Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '220 MYDOMAIN ESMTP\r\n'
>Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (220); Msg: MYDOMAIN
>ESMTP


And the connect succeeded and we begin to send.


>Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): connect:   MYDOMAIN ESMTP
>Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'ehlo www.MYDOMAIN\r\n'
>Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-MYDOMAIN\r\n'
>Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-AUTH LOGIN CRAM-MD5
>PLAIN\r\n'
>Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-AUTH=LOGIN CRAM-MD5
>PLAIN\r\n'
>Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-STARTTLS\r\n'
>Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250-PIPELINING\r\n'
>Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250 8BITMIME\r\n'
>Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (250); Msg: MYDOMAIN
>AUTH LOGIN CRAM-MD5 PLAIN
>AUTH=LOGIN CRAM-MD5 PLAIN
>STARTTLS
>PIPELINING
>8BITMIME
>Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'mail
>FROM:<test-bounces at MYDOMAIN>\r\n'
>Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250 ok\r\n'
>Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok
>Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'rcpt
>TO:<mailman-test at MYDOMAIN>\r\n'
>Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250 ok\r\n'
>Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok
>Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'data\r\n'
>Feb 03 22:32:55 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '354 go ahead\r\n'
>Feb 03 22:32:56 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (354); Msg: go ahead
>Feb 03 22:32:56 2008 qrunner(20175): data:   (354, 'go ahead')
>Feb 03 22:32:56 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'Return-Path:
><TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN>\r\nDelivered-To: MYDOMAIN-test at MYDOMAIN\r\nReceived:
>(qmail 4288 invoked by uid 511); 3 Feb 2008 22:29:12 +0100\r\nDate: 3
>Feb 2008 22:29:12 +0100\r\nMessage-ID:
><20080203212912.4287.qmail at MYDOMAIN>\r\nFrom: TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN\r\nTo:
>test at MYDOMAIN\r\nSubject: [Test] Test Sun Feb  3 22:29:12 CET
>2008\r\nX-BeenThere: test at MYDOMAIN\r\nX-Mailman-Version:
>2.1.9\r\nPrecedence: list\r\nList-Id:
><test.MYDOMAIN>\r\nList-Unsubscribe:
><http://MYDOMAIN/mailman/listinfo/test>,\r\n\t<mailto:test-request at MYDOMAIN?subject=unsubscribe>\r\nList-Archive: 
>
><http://MYDOMAIN/pipermail/test>\r\nList-Post:
><mailto:test at MYDOMAIN>\r\nList-Help:
><mailto:test-request at MYDOMAIN?subject=help>\r\nList-Subscribe:
><http://MYDOMAIN/mailman/listinfo/test>,\r\n\t<mailto:test-request at MYDOMAIN?subject=subscribe>\r\nMIME-Version: 
>
>1.0\r\nContent-Type: text/plain;
>charset="iso-8859-1"\r\nContent-Transfer-Encoding:
>quoted-printable\r\nSender: test-bounces at MYDOMAIN\r\nErrors-To:
>test-bounces at MYDOMAIN\r\n\r\nSun Feb  3 22:29:12 CET
>2008\r\n_______________________________________________\r\nTest mailing
>list\r\nTest at MYDOMAIN\r\nhttp://MYDOMAIN/mailman/listinfo/test\r\n.\r\n'



Above, we send the message at 22:32:56. We do not receive the reply
below until 22:33:23.  Presumably, Qmail spent most of the 27 seconds
doing the spam scanning.


>Feb 03 22:33:23 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '250 ok 1202074403 qp
>5450\r\n'
>Feb 03 22:33:23 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (250); Msg: ok
>1202074403 qp 5450
>Feb 03 22:33:23 2008 qrunner(20175): data:   (250, 'ok 1202074403 qp 5450')
>Feb 03 22:33:23 2008 qrunner(20175): send:   'quit\r\n'
>Feb 03 22:33:23 2008 qrunner(20175): reply:   '221 MYDOMAIN\r\n'
>Feb 03 22:33:23 2008 qrunner(20175): reply: retcode (221); Msg: MYDOMAIN


Now, the message is sent and accepted and we try to connect again to
send the next message.


>Feb 03 22:33:23 2008 qrunner(20175): connect:   ('localhost', 25)
>Feb 03 22:33:23 2008 qrunner(20175): connect:   ('localhost', 25)


But we receive no reply to our connect and no timeout either, so we are
still waiting.

I'm not sure where the problem is, but it is outside Mailman. The
underlying Python smtplib has issued a tcp/ip connect request to
localhost, port 25 and is waiting for some kind of response, i.e., a
response from the process listening on localhost:25, a tcp/ip refusal
or a tcp/ip timeout. None of these things occur, so we just wait.

I have no idea whether this is an OS issue, a networking issue or a
Qmail issue, but there should eventually be a reply or a timeout.


>Again at the moment of the failure the system load was high since there
>were about 20 simultaneous connections to the smtp server, and
>consequently many spamassassins processes, and from the mailman 'smtp'
>log again it took many time to deliver the last few messages:
>
>
>Feb 03 22:25:10 2008 (20175) <20080203212501.3266.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
>to test for 1 recips, completed in 3.815 seconds
>Feb 03 22:26:06 2008 (20175) <20080203212602.3363.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
>to test for 1 recips, completed in 3.451 seconds
>Feb 03 22:31:22 2008 (20175) <20080203212730.3725.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
>to test for 1 recips, completed in 102.005 seconds
>Feb 03 22:32:14 2008 (20175) <20080203212807.3906.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
>to test for 1 recips, completed in 52.107 seconds
>Feb 03 22:33:23 2008 (20175) <20080203212912.4287.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
>to test for 1 recips, completed in 69.000 seconds


68+ of those 69 seconds are in waiting for the initial response to
connect and waiting for reply after sending the message text.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  5 22:22:01 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 13:22:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Porting from a 2.1.5 installation to 2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <47A8B1BA.2020903@linfield.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802051322010156e468401d@msapiro>

Rob Tanner wrote:
>
>I am retiring a server running Mailman 2.1.5 and need to port  
>everything to a server running 2.1.7 (Fedora Core distribution).  Can I 
>take the lists directory and simply copy it from one server to another 
>(i.e., is the format of the various files the same)?  Is there anything 
>else that needs to be copied?


There are many threads on this in the archives of the mailman-users
list. The FAQ at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp>
points to a few of them.

In short, for 2.1.5 to 2.1.7, you can move the lists/ directory and
Mailman will transparently update config.pck formats as necessary as
lists are accessed.

Note the following:

If you move the lists/*/request.pck files, you also need to move any
data/heldmsg-* files. OTOH, you can ignore any held messages on the
old server, in which case, it's better to not move the request.pck
files.

If you want to move archives, you can move the entire archives/private/
directory. You don't really need to worry about archives/public/ as
the symlinks therein will be recreated on the new system as the lists
are accessed, but if you want to move archives/public/, make sure that
you move the symlinks and not the directories they point to.

If you want to be selective about which archives to move, make sure
that you move both the archives/private/listname/ and the
archives/private/listname.mbox/ directories for each list.

You also have to deal with MTA aliases on the new server if the MTA
uses aliases for Mailman.

If the domain names for web and email will be the same on the new
server, that's all. If not, you need to run fix_url to update the
lists. Also, in this case, it might be better to just move the
archives/private/listname.mbox/ directories and rebuild the archives
with bin/arch --wipe so that the listinfo links in the archives will
have the correct host name.

If you are going to rebuild archives, it is good to first check the
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file with bin/cleanarch.

See:

bin/arch --help
bin/cleanarch --help
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From vmjr at panix.com  Wed Feb  6 00:21:21 2008
From: vmjr at panix.com (Victor M.J. Ryden)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 15:21:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable monthly Memberships EMail
Message-ID: <002301c8684e$3a76ef70$20c916ac@scag.local>

Is there a way to turn off the monthly Memberships Reminder EMail. I have an announcements list and don't want any additional EMail. I have searched on Google and the Archives, for this but all I see is how to turn off the Password Reminder, which is already off.

Thanks for your help.

-------------------------------------------------------
Victor M.J. Ryden



From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  6 01:00:49 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:00:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable monthly Memberships EMail
In-Reply-To: <002301c8684e$3a76ef70$20c916ac@scag.local>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802051600490359b09eaff8@msapiro>

Victor M.J. Ryden wrote:

>Is there a way to turn off the monthly Memberships Reminder EMail. I have an announcements list and don't want any additional EMail. I have searched on Google and the Archives, for this but all I see is how to turn off the Password Reminder, which is already off.


The password reminder is the only Monthly reminder that Mailman sends.
It is the mail with Subject: <hostname> mailing list memberships
reminder.

If you have set send_reminders to No on the list's General Options
page, reminders will not be sent for that list, but a list member may
be sent a reminder for other lists in the same installation.

If you control the Mailman server, you can remove the mailpasswds entry
from Mailman's crontab, and no reminders will ever be sent for any
list.
	

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rtanner at linfield.edu  Wed Feb  6 01:17:03 2008
From: rtanner at linfield.edu (Rob Tanner)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:17:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Porting from a 2.1.5 installation to 2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802051322010156e468401d@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200802051322010156e468401d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47A8FC7F.5020609@linfield.edu>

That was very very helpful.  Thanks!

-- Rob


Mark Sapiro said the following on 02/05/2008 01:22 PM:
> Rob Tanner wrote:
>   
>> I am retiring a server running Mailman 2.1.5 and need to port  
>> everything to a server running 2.1.7 (Fedora Core distribution).  Can I 
>> take the lists directory and simply copy it from one server to another 
>> (i.e., is the format of the various files the same)?  Is there anything 
>> else that needs to be copied?
>>     
>
>
> There are many threads on this in the archives of the mailman-users
> list. The FAQ at
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp>
> points to a few of them.
>
> In short, for 2.1.5 to 2.1.7, you can move the lists/ directory and
> Mailman will transparently update config.pck formats as necessary as
> lists are accessed.
>
> Note the following:
>
> If you move the lists/*/request.pck files, you also need to move any
> data/heldmsg-* files. OTOH, you can ignore any held messages on the
> old server, in which case, it's better to not move the request.pck
> files.
>
> If you want to move archives, you can move the entire archives/private/
> directory. You don't really need to worry about archives/public/ as
> the symlinks therein will be recreated on the new system as the lists
> are accessed, but if you want to move archives/public/, make sure that
> you move the symlinks and not the directories they point to.
>
> If you want to be selective about which archives to move, make sure
> that you move both the archives/private/listname/ and the
> archives/private/listname.mbox/ directories for each list.
>
> You also have to deal with MTA aliases on the new server if the MTA
> uses aliases for Mailman.
>
> If the domain names for web and email will be the same on the new
> server, that's all. If not, you need to run fix_url to update the
> lists. Also, in this case, it might be better to just move the
> archives/private/listname.mbox/ directories and rebuild the archives
> with bin/arch --wipe so that the listinfo links in the archives will
> have the correct host name.
>
> If you are going to rebuild archives, it is good to first check the
> archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file with bin/cleanarch.
>
> See:
>
> bin/arch --help
> bin/cleanarch --help
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>
>
>   


From rtanner at linfield.edu  Wed Feb  6 01:19:01 2008
From: rtanner at linfield.edu (Rob Tanner)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:19:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] getting python errorss with check_perms
Message-ID: <47A8FCF5.8060505@linfield.edu>

Hi,

Running this as root so that it can fix any perm problems, but I'm 
getting what I assume to be python errors:

[root at polgara mailman]# bin/check_perms -f
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/check_perms", line 382, in <module>
    checkarchives()
  File "bin/check_perms", line 216, in checkarchives
    print _("""\
NameError: global name '_' is not defined


I get the same errors without the '-f' argument.  Any ideas?

Thanks,
Rob




-- 
Rob Tanner
UNIX Services Manager
Linfield College, McMinnville OR

From tmz at pobox.com  Wed Feb  6 01:34:43 2008
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 19:34:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] getting python errorss with check_perms
In-Reply-To: <47A8FCF5.8060505@linfield.edu>
References: <47A8FCF5.8060505@linfield.edu>
Message-ID: <20080206003443.GO2720@inocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Rob Tanner wrote:
> Running this as root so that it can fix any perm problems, but I'm 
> getting what I assume to be python errors:
> 
> [root at polgara mailman]# bin/check_perms -f
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "bin/check_perms", line 382, in <module>
>   checkarchives()
> File "bin/check_perms", line 216, in checkarchives
>   print _("""\
> NameError: global name '_' is not defined
> 
> 
> I get the same errors without the '-f' argument.  Any ideas?

You said in another thread that you're migrating to a Fedora Core
system.  Are you using the Fedora rpm packages of Mailman?  This looks
like a bug in one of the patches that is applied in the Fedora/Red Hat
rpms.

If you're using the rpms, what version of Fedora are you running, and
what is the version and release of the mailman package?  The changes
I'm thinking of were discussed at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/132495

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There will always be death and taxes, but death doesn't get worse
every year.

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From rtanner at linfield.edu  Wed Feb  6 01:51:32 2008
From: rtanner at linfield.edu (Rob Tanner)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:51:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] getting python errorss with check_perms
In-Reply-To: <20080206003443.GO2720@inocybe.teonanacatl.org>
References: <47A8FCF5.8060505@linfield.edu>
	<20080206003443.GO2720@inocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <47A90494.90005@linfield.edu>

Todd,

I think the bug URL you gave me is a wrong URL.  Bug 132495 is a 
Japanese encoding bug and its status is closed (which I presume means 
fixed).  That doesn't sound like the problem I'm seeing.

In answer to your questions, the Fedora release is Fedora release 7 
(Moonshine) and the mailman package installed  is mailman-2.1.9-5.1 
(output of rpm -qa).   I just no checked, and there is not a more 
current package to download via yum.

-- Rob


Todd Zullinger said the following on 02/05/2008 04:34 PM:
> Rob Tanner wrote:
>   
>> Running this as root so that it can fix any perm problems, but I'm 
>> getting what I assume to be python errors:
>>
>> [root at polgara mailman]# bin/check_perms -f
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>> File "bin/check_perms", line 382, in <module>
>>   checkarchives()
>> File "bin/check_perms", line 216, in checkarchives
>>   print _("""\
>> NameError: global name '_' is not defined
>>
>>
>> I get the same errors without the '-f' argument.  Any ideas?
>>     
>
> You said in another thread that you're migrating to a Fedora Core
> system.  Are you using the Fedora rpm packages of Mailman?  This looks
> like a bug in one of the patches that is applied in the Fedora/Red Hat
> rpms.
>
> If you're using the rpms, what version of Fedora are you running, and
> what is the version and release of the mailman package?  The changes
> I'm thinking of were discussed at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/132495
>
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rtanner%40linfield.edu
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  6 02:19:12 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 17:19:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] getting python errorss with check_perms
In-Reply-To: <47A90494.90005@linfield.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602008020517191207032e9c4b2b@msapiro>

Rob Tanner wrote:
>
>I think the bug URL you gave me is a wrong URL.  Bug 132495 is a 
>Japanese encoding bug and its status is closed (which I presume means 
>fixed).  That doesn't sound like the problem I'm seeing.


Read further down in the comment thread. It talks about the _() i18n
function being changed to C_().

However, lines 37 to 48 of our check_perms are


try:
    import paths
except ImportError:
    print '''Could not import paths!

This probably means that you are trying to run check_perms from the
source
directory.  You must run this from the installation directory instead.
'''
    raise
from Mailman import mm_cfg
from Mailman.mm_cfg import MAILMAN_USER, MAILMAN_GROUP
from Mailman.i18n import _


Is this what your's looks like?


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Feb  6 02:29:42 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 19:29:42 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing qrunner stops working and outgoing
 mails get stuck
In-Reply-To: <47A876A2.5020600@localdomain>
References: <47A876A2.5020600@localdomain>
Message-ID: <p06240802c3cebda758e1@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/5/08, ippaso wrote:

>  Here is the log from the smtp server for that time, in case it can help:
>  (qmail is patched to check the 'rcpt to' against a valid addresses list
>  before accepting a message and to reject during the smtp conversation
>  the mails which achieve a very high spamassassin spam score)

You really want to avoid doing any kind of anti-spam check for 
outgoing mail from Mailman.  All those checks should be done on 
input, and should not need to be done on output.

Moreover, you really don't want to do any kind of recipient address 
validation, if the recipient in question is not local to your network 
-- that could easily be mistaken by remote sites for a spammer trying 
to verify his mailing list.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Feb  6 02:32:11 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 19:32:11 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still Lost
In-Reply-To: <002501c8680a$7f125a50$6601a8c0@jacsdad>
References: <002501c8680a$7f125a50$6601a8c0@jacsdad>
Message-ID: <p06240803c3cebe2776e6@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/5/08, Thomas J Casey wrote:

>  In an email from Brad Knowles, he stated: If they are not subscribers, "then
>  they need to be on the whitelist."  But I cannot find a whitelist anywhere.

Go to the web mail admin interface for your list.  Go to the "Privacy 
options..." sub-page, then to "Sender filters".

The second field on the page should be labeled 
"accept_these_nonmembers" with a description of "List of non-member 
addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted."  That's 
your whitelist.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From tmz at pobox.com  Wed Feb  6 02:56:30 2008
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 20:56:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] getting python errorss with check_perms
In-Reply-To: <47A90494.90005@linfield.edu>
References: <47A8FCF5.8060505@linfield.edu>
	<20080206003443.GO2720@inocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<47A90494.90005@linfield.edu>
Message-ID: <20080206015630.GP2720@inocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Rob Tanner wrote:
> I think the bug URL you gave me is a wrong URL.  Bug 132495 is a
> Japanese encoding bug and its status is closed (which I presume
> means fixed).  That doesn't sound like the problem I'm seeing.

The bug summary may not sound like what you're seeing, but the patch
that was applied to correct the initial problem does redefine _() and
can cause the sort of errors you're seeing.  I know this because I ran
into some places where the patch was incomplete and caused just such a
problem for me. :)

> In answer to your questions, the Fedora release is Fedora release 7
> (Moonshine) and the mailman package installed  is mailman-2.1.9-5.1
> (output of rpm -qa).   I just no checked, and there is not a more
> current package to download via yum.

There may still be problems with the patch, as the maintainer noted in
the last comment.  The bug is closed with the resolution rawhide,
which means that the latest updated patch may not have been pushed to
F7 (I haven't looked closely, though you can by looking at the Fedora
CVS: http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/rpms/mailman/)

There does happen to be an update that is in the updates-testing
repository, and the patch in question has been updated in that version
(mailman-2.1.9-5.3.i386.rpm).  You can download that directly or
enable the updates-testing repo to install it with yum like so:

yum --enablerepo=updates-testing update mailman

This package should hit the standard updates repo very soon as it
fixes CVE-2006-3636 (multiple cross-site scripting vulnerabilities).

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity

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From robert at reverson.net  Wed Feb  6 03:18:29 2008
From: robert at reverson.net (Robert Everson)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 20:18:29 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off confirmation
Message-ID: <7F5B91B0-BDEE-4006-A258-B6F8BFA7340E@reverson.net>

I'm running a mail list that is used for emergency notification, and  
many people subscribe using their cellphones.  Because of this,  
sending a confirmation email isn't really the easiest way for the  
users to subscribe.  Also, I don't really think that approving  
everyone would be feasible for me.  Is there a way to turn off the  
confirmation/approval process for new subscribers?

Thanks,
Robert Everson

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  6 03:45:48 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 18:45:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off confirmation
In-Reply-To: <7F5B91B0-BDEE-4006-A258-B6F8BFA7340E@reverson.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802051845480062b09eaece@msapiro>

Robert Everson wrote:

>I'm running a mail list that is used for emergency notification, and  
>many people subscribe using their cellphones.  Because of this,  
>sending a confirmation email isn't really the easiest way for the  
>users to subscribe.  Also, I don't really think that approving  
>everyone would be feasible for me.  Is there a way to turn off the  
>confirmation/approval process for new subscribers?


It is not recommended, but if you want to do it, and if you have
sufficient access to the Mailman server, you can put

ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = Yes

in mm_cfg.py, and then you will be offered None as one of the choices
for subscribe_policy.

Keep in mind that in addition to making things easier for your PDA
subscribers, this will also allow your worst enemy to subscribe
multiple people to your list and when these people start receiving
messages from the list and replying to the list with "take me off this
list" and complaining to their ISPs that you are a source of spam, you
will ultimately have to close the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Feb  6 04:33:25 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 12:33:25 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  getting python errorss with check_perms
In-Reply-To: <47A8FCF5.8060505@linfield.edu>
References: <47A8FCF5.8060505@linfield.edu>
Message-ID: <87odauu5bu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Rob Tanner writes:

 >   File "bin/check_perms", line 216, in checkarchives
 >     print _("""\
 > NameError: global name '_' is not defined

This is the conventional equivalent to GNU gettext used by most Python
programs.  Find the definition of '_' which will either look like

def _(x):
    # code here

or like

_ = gettext

(or some other name that looks like it might be a function that
translates an English string into some other language).  Then replace
it with

def _(x):
    return x

and win (unless you really want to see the messages in a language
other than the original, which is almost certainly English<wink>).


From rtanner at linfield.edu  Wed Feb  6 07:10:58 2008
From: rtanner at linfield.edu (Rob Tanner)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:10:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] getting python errorss with check_perms
In-Reply-To: <20080206015630.GP2720@inocybe.teonanacatl.org>
References: <47A8FCF5.8060505@linfield.edu>	<20080206003443.GO2720@inocybe.teonanacatl.org>	<47A90494.90005@linfield.edu>
	<20080206015630.GP2720@inocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <47A94F72.2030700@linfield.edu>

Todd,

That update took case of it.  Thanks.

-- Rob

On 02/05/2008 05:56 PM, Todd Zullinger wrote:
> Rob Tanner wrote:
>   
>> I think the bug URL you gave me is a wrong URL.  Bug 132495 is a
>> Japanese encoding bug and its status is closed (which I presume
>> means fixed).  That doesn't sound like the problem I'm seeing.
>>     
>
> The bug summary may not sound like what you're seeing, but the patch
> that was applied to correct the initial problem does redefine _() and
> can cause the sort of errors you're seeing.  I know this because I ran
> into some places where the patch was incomplete and caused just such a
> problem for me. :)
>
>   
>> In answer to your questions, the Fedora release is Fedora release 7
>> (Moonshine) and the mailman package installed  is mailman-2.1.9-5.1
>> (output of rpm -qa).   I just no checked, and there is not a more
>> current package to download via yum.
>>     
>
> There may still be problems with the patch, as the maintainer noted in
> the last comment.  The bug is closed with the resolution rawhide,
> which means that the latest updated patch may not have been pushed to
> F7 (I haven't looked closely, though you can by looking at the Fedora
> CVS: http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/rpms/mailman/)
>
> There does happen to be an update that is in the updates-testing
> repository, and the patch in question has been updated in that version
> (mailman-2.1.9-5.3.i386.rpm).  You can download that directly or
> enable the updates-testing repo to install it with yum like so:
>
> yum --enablerepo=updates-testing update mailman
>
> This package should hit the standard updates repo very soon as it
> fixes CVE-2006-3636 (multiple cross-site scripting vulnerabilities).
>
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rtanner%40linfield.edu
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From zszalbot at gmail.com  Wed Feb  6 09:41:46 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 09:41:46 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off confirmation
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802051845480062b09eaece@msapiro>
References: <7F5B91B0-BDEE-4006-A258-B6F8BFA7340E@reverson.net>
	<PC1760200802051845480062b09eaece@msapiro>
Message-ID: <94136a2c0802060041k15971305o24c4f5c5cd50c6ba@mail.gmail.com>

2008/2/6, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
> Robert Everson wrote:
>
> >I'm running a mail list that is used for emergency notification, and
> >many people subscribe using their cellphones.  Because of this,
> >sending a confirmation email isn't really the easiest way for the
> >users to subscribe.  Also, I don't really think that approving
> >everyone would be feasible for me.  Is there a way to turn off the
> >confirmation/approval process for new subscribers?
>
>
> It is not recommended, but if you want to do it, and if you have
> sufficient access to the Mailman server, you can put
>
> ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = Yes
>
> in mm_cfg.py, and then you will be offered None as one of the choices
> for subscribe_policy.
>
> Keep in mind that in addition to making things easier for your PDA
> subscribers, this will also allow your worst enemy to subscribe
> multiple people to your list and when these people start receiving
> messages from the list and replying to the list with "take me off this
> list" and complaining to their ISPs that you are a source of spam, you
> will ultimately have to close the list.

Hello - sorry to jump in and hijack the thread but is similar thing
possible for unsubscribe process? That is, I would actually like to
keep the subscription confirmation process intact but allow users to
unsubcribe *without* confirmation. Is that possible?

Thank you!

Zbigniew Szalbot

From lachlan at lkla.org  Wed Feb  6 13:58:28 2008
From: lachlan at lkla.org (Lachlan Michael)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 21:58:28 +0900 (JST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Borks on Large Attachments
In-Reply-To: <28882.137.153.0.37.1202210590.squirrel@sm.lkla.org>
References: <PC17602008020409300802034d23c4d3@msapiro>
	<47A7A70D.90102@lkla.org>
	<28882.137.153.0.37.1202210590.squirrel@sm.lkla.org>
Message-ID: <50661.137.153.0.37.1202302708.squirrel@sm.lkla.org>


>
>>> Prior to Mailman 2.1.9, the error would have occurred once and the
>>> message would have been lost. Beginning in 2.1.9, a queue file
>>> backup/recovery mechanism was implemented which allowed messages that
>>> were in process when a crash occurred to be recovered, but the problem
>>> here is that if the message itself causes the crash, a loop occurs
>>> such as you experienced. This is addressed in 2.1.10b3 by counting the
>>> number of times a .bak file has been recovered and moving it aside
>>> after 3 tries.
>>>
>>> It would be wonderful if you could install the latest
>>> Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py from
>>> <http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/files>
>>> and see if this mitigates the problem.
>>>
>> Ok, I will definitely try this.
>
> Yes, it does solve the problem of processing on the lists stopping
> completely. I'll keep that file in my Mailman! Thank-you.

One more data point. An attachment of 500-600kB was ok, but an attachment
of 1.5MB was not.

For the 1.5MB file case, the memory errors just kept coming until the .bak
file was left in place, and not moved away. Does this point to the mail
just being too big for python?

With the larger 1.5MB file:

Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(67667): Traceback (most recent call last):
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(67667):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(67667):      main()
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(67667):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(67667):      qrunner.run()
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(67667):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(67667):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(67667):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(67667):      msg, msgdata =
self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(67667):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 160, in dequeue
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(67667):      msg = cPickle.load(fp)
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(67667): MemoryError
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68026): Traceback (most recent call last):
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68026):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68026):      main()
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68026):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 225, in main
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68026):      qrunner = make_qrunner(*runners[0])
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68026):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 125, in make_qrunner
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68026):      qrunner = qrclass(slice, range)
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68026):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 53, in __init__
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68026):      self._switchboard =
Switchboard(self.QDIR, slice, numslices, True)
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68026):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 94, in __init__
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68026):      self.recover_backup_files()
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68026):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 226, in
recover_backup_files
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68026):      msg = cPickle.load(fp)
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68026): MemoryError
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68027): Traceback (most recent call last):
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68027):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68027):      main()
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68027):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 225, in main
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68027):      qrunner = make_qrunner(*runners[0])
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68027):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 125, in make_qrunner
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68027):      qrunner = qrclass(slice, range)
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68027):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 53, in __init__
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68027):      self._switchboard =
Switchboard(self.QDIR, slice, numslices, True)
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68027):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 94, in __init__
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68027):      self.recover_backup_files()
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68027):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 226, in
recover_backup_files
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68027):      msg = cPickle.load(fp)
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68027): MemoryError
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68028): Traceback (most recent call last):
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68028):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68028):      main()
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68028):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 225, in main
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68028):      qrunner = make_qrunner(*runners[0])
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68028):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 125, in make_qrunner
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68028):      qrunner = qrclass(slice, range)
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68028):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 53, in __init__
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68028):      self._switchboard =
Switchboard(self.QDIR, slice, numslices, True)
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68028):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 94, in __init__
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68028):      self.recover_backup_files()
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68028):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 226, in
recover_backup_files
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68028):      msg = cPickle.load(fp)
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68028): MemoryError
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68029): Traceback (most recent call last):
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68029):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68029):      main()
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68029):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 225, in main
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68029):      qrunner = make_qrunner(*runners[0])
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68029):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 125, in make_qrunner
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68029):      qrunner = qrclass(slice, range)
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68029):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 53, in __init__
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68029):      self._switchboard =
Switchboard(self.QDIR, slice, numslices, True)
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68029):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 94, in __init__
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68029):      self.recover_backup_files()
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68029):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 226, in
recover_backup_files
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68029):      msg = cPickle.load(fp)
Feb 06 21:20:38 2008 qrunner(68029): MemoryError
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68030): Traceback (most recent call last):
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68030):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68030):      main()
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68030):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 225, in main
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68030):      qrunner = make_qrunner(*runners[0])
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68030):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 125, in make_qrunner
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68030):      qrunner = qrclass(slice, range)
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68030):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 53, in __init__
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68030):      self._switchboard =
Switchboard(self.QDIR, slice, numslices, True)
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68030):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 94, in __init__
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68030):      self.recover_backup_files()
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68030):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 226, in
recover_backup_files
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68030):      msg = cPickle.load(fp)
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68030): MemoryError
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68031): Traceback (most recent call last):
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68031):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68031):      main()
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68031):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 225, in main
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68031):      qrunner = make_qrunner(*runners[0])
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68031):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 125, in make_qrunner
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68031):      qrunner = qrclass(slice, range)
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68031):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 53, in __init__
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68031):      self._switchboard =
Switchboard(self.QDIR, slice, numslices, True)
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68031):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 94, in __init__
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68031):      self.recover_backup_files()
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68031):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 226, in
recover_backup_files
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68031):      msg = cPickle.load(fp)
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68031): MemoryError
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68032): Traceback (most recent call last):
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68032):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68032):      main()
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68032):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 225, in main
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68032):      qrunner = make_qrunner(*runners[0])
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68032):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 125, in make_qrunner
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68032):      qrunner = qrclass(slice, range)
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68032):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 53, in __init__
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68032):      self._switchboard =
Switchboard(self.QDIR, slice, numslices, True)
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68032):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 94, in __init__
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68032):      self.recover_backup_files()
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68032):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 226, in
recover_backup_files
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68032):      msg = cPickle.load(fp)
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68032): MemoryError
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68033): Traceback (most recent call last):
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68033):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68033):      main()
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68033):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 225, in main
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68033):      qrunner = make_qrunner(*runners[0])
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68033):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 125, in make_qrunner
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68033):      qrunner = qrclass(slice, range)
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68033):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 53, in __init__
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68033):      self._switchboard =
Switchboard(self.QDIR, slice, numslices, True)
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68033):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 94, in __init__
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68033):      self.recover_backup_files()
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68033):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 226, in
recover_backup_files
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68033):      msg = cPickle.load(fp)
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68033): MemoryError
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68034): Traceback (most recent call last):
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68034):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68034):      main()
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68034):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 225, in main
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68034):      qrunner = make_qrunner(*runners[0])
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68034):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 125, in make_qrunner
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68034):      qrunner = qrclass(slice, range)
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68034):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 53, in __init__
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68034):      self._switchboard =
Switchboard(self.QDIR, slice, numslices, True)
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68034):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 94, in __init__
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68034):      self.recover_backup_files()
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68034):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 226, in
recover_backup_files
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68034):      msg = cPickle.load(fp)
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68034): MemoryError
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68035): Traceback (most recent call last):
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68035):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68035):      main()
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68035):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 225, in main
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68035):      qrunner = make_qrunner(*runners[0])
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68035):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 125, in make_qrunner
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68035):      qrunner = qrclass(slice, range)
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68035):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 53, in __init__
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68035):      self._switchboard =
Switchboard(self.QDIR, slice, numslices, True)
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68035):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 94, in __init__
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68035):      self.recover_backup_files()
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68035):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 226, in
recover_backup_files
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68035):      msg = cPickle.load(fp)
Feb 06 21:20:39 2008 qrunner(68035): MemoryError

whereas with the smaller file the error was

Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 (68072) Uncaught runner exception: out of memory
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 (68072) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
_dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
_dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 111, in
process
    g.flatten(p)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 101, in
flatten
    self._write(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 129, in _write
    self._dispatch(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 155, in
_dispatch
    meth(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 258, in
_handle_multipart
    print >> self._fp, '\n--' + boundary + '--',
MemoryError: out of memory

Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68072): Traceback (most recent call last):
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68072):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68072):      main()
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68072):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68072):      qrunner.run()
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68072):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68072):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68072):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 124, in _oneloop
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68072):      new_filebase =
self._shunt.enqueue(msg, msgdata)
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68072):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 110, in enqueue
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68072):      msgsave = cPickle.dumps(_msg,
protocol)
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68072): MemoryError :  out of memory
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 (68786) Uncaught runner exception: out of memory
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 (68786) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
_dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
_dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 111, in
process
    g.flatten(p)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 101, in
flatten
    self._write(msg)
 File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 129, in _write
    self._dispatch(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 155, in
_dispatch
    meth(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 258, in
_handle_multipart
    print >> self._fp, '\n--' + boundary + '--',
MemoryError: out of memory

Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68786): Traceback (most recent call last):
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68786):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68786):      main()
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68786):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68786):      qrunner.run()
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68786):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68786):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68786):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 124, in _oneloop
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68786):      new_filebase =
self._shunt.enqueue(msg, msgdata)
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68786):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 110, in enqueue
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68786):      msgsave = cPickle.dumps(_msg,
protocol)
Feb 06 21:30:57 2008 qrunner(68786): MemoryError :  out of memory
Feb 06 21:30:58 2008 (68787) Uncaught runner exception: out of memory
Feb 06 21:30:58 2008 (68787) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
_dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
_dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 111, in
process
    g.flatten(p)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 101, in
flatten
    self._write(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 129, in _write
    self._dispatch(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 155, in
_dispatch
    meth(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 258, in
_handle_multipart
    print >> self._fp, '\n--' + boundary + '--',
MemoryError: out of memory

Feb 06 21:30:58 2008 qrunner(68787): Traceback (most recent call last):
Feb 06 21:30:58 2008 qrunner(68787):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
Feb 06 21:30:58 2008 qrunner(68787):      main()
Feb 06 21:30:58 2008 qrunner(68787):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
Feb 06 21:30:58 2008 qrunner(68787):      qrunner.run()
Feb 06 21:30:58 2008 qrunner(68787):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
Feb 06 21:30:58 2008 qrunner(68787):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Feb 06 21:30:58 2008 qrunner(68787):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 124, in _oneloop
Feb 06 21:30:58 2008 qrunner(68787):      new_filebase =
self._shunt.enqueue(msg, msgdata)
Feb 06 21:30:58 2008 qrunner(68787):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 110, in enqueue
Feb 06 21:30:58 2008 qrunner(68787):      msgsave = cPickle.dumps(_msg,
protocol)
Feb 06 21:30:58 2008 qrunner(68787): MemoryError :  out of memory
Feb 06 21:30:58 2008 (68788) .bak file max count, preserving file:
1202301056.9592681+d4bd40a292f3ced54fbd5c82a14b4a2c306f1758




From ippaso at trashmail.net  Wed Feb  6 15:00:29 2008
From: ippaso at trashmail.net (SP)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 15:00:29 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing qrunner stops working and
 outgoingmails get stuck
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802051144320109b09eaeed@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200802051144320109b09eaeed@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47A9BD7D.7030103@trashmail.net>

Mark Sapiro ha scritto:

> Was this at the time that you restarted Mailman?

Yes, possibly it was that time...

In fact so far my solution to the problem has been a cron job which 
sends a SIGHUP signal to outgoin runner once a day at a fixed time, just 
to fix the situation in case something was wrong, and sometimes in 
correspondece to the time of that cron job I can find a similar entry in 
the error log.

I read in some other posts in this list that possibly a cron job like 
this is not a good idea since it can happens that the runner is busy 
when it receives the signal, but so far this is the only (partial and 
easy) cure I can think of... :-)

Thank you,

Paso



From ippaso at trashmail.net  Wed Feb  6 15:18:03 2008
From: ippaso at trashmail.net (SP)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 15:18:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing qrunner stops working and outgoing
 mails get stuck
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c3cebda758e1@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <47A876A2.5020600@localdomain>
	<p06240802c3cebda758e1@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <47A9C19B.2050807@trashmail.net>

I was not clear in my previous posts, so just to clarify:


Brad Knowles ha scritto:

> You really want to avoid doing any kind of anti-spam check for outgoing 
> mail from Mailman.  All those checks should be done on input, and should 
> not need to be done on output.


The antispam check is performed only on incoming mails: none of the mail 
originating from our server are scanned.

In particular, since for my tests I used an email address on the server 
itself none of the mails sent to the test list had been scanned by 
spamassassin, the high load of the system was due to the fact that in 
the moment mailman tried to send its message there were 20 connections 
from the outside world, and consequently spamassassin was checking those 
mails.


> Moreover, you really don't want to do any kind of recipient address 
> validation, if the recipient in question is not local to your network -- 
> that could easily be mistaken by remote sites for a spammer trying to 
> verify his mailing list.


My server is in fact accepting only local mails, no relay at all, so the 
problem does not exist... or am I wrong?
It is quite easy to generate a list of valid local addresses to use to 
perform a check on the "rcpt to:" of a mail and reject mails which are 
addressed to unknown addressees, avoiding the duty of generating plenty 
of bounce messages complaining that the address is unknown.

Bye,

Paso

From robert at skipperweb.org  Wed Feb  6 17:05:48 2008
From: robert at skipperweb.org (Robert Boyd Skipper)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 10:05:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members seemingly able to post
Message-ID: <47A9DADC.8010003@skipperweb.org>

I just had a fleck of spam sully my mailing list from an email address that is not among 
the members.  How can this be?  There were still about thirty other piece of spam 
awaiting administrative approval.  How could this one have slipped through?  Where would 
I start troubleshooting this? I know it's not just that it's spoofing the list, because 
the spam ended up in the online archives.

Skipper


-- 
Robert Boyd Skipper
P.O. Box 593
Wimberley, TX 78676

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  6 17:46:48 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 08:46:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Borks on Large Attachments
In-Reply-To: <50661.137.153.0.37.1202302708.squirrel@sm.lkla.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802060846480281b8115229@msapiro>

Lachlan Michael wrote:
>
>One more data point. An attachment of 500-600kB was ok, but an attachment
>of 1.5MB was not.
>
>For the 1.5MB file case, the memory errors just kept coming until the .bak
>file was left in place, and not moved away. Does this point to the mail
>just being too big for python?


No. This is really the same underlying problem. It is just manifesting
itself in an unanticipated way in the 1.5MB case. I will fix this,
probably later today, and send a revised Switchboard.py.

I am sorry for your difficulties, but I really appreciate your help in
getting the Mailman side of this fixed.

Ultimately, you will need to fix the underlying issue. I don't know how
to do that, but these errors should not be happening. In most
installations, Mailman can handle messages of tens of megabytes withot
this problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  6 18:19:33 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 09:19:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members seemingly able to post
In-Reply-To: <47A9DADC.8010003@skipperweb.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008020609193300155b431eb0@msapiro>

Robert Boyd Skipper wrote:

>I just had a fleck of spam sully my mailing list from an email address that is not among 
>the members.  How can this be?  There were still about thirty other piece of spam 
>awaiting administrative approval.  How could this one have slipped through?  Where would 
>I start troubleshooting this? I know it's not just that it's spoofing the list, because 
>the spam ended up in the online archives.


It is not always possible to tell after the fact, but here is some
info. Note that you can find the message in the
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file, but this message
has already been processed by Mailman and some Headers may have been
changed from the incoming message.

A message will be determined to be from a member if a members address
appears in any of the From:, Reply-To: or Sender: headers or is the
envelope sender which will be in the initial "From " line in the
listname.mbox file.

If the message is not from a member, it will be accepted if the From:
address, or the Sender: address if there is one and if
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER is set to Yes in mm_cfg.py, is in or matches a
pattern in accept_these_nonmembers.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rtanner at linfield.edu  Wed Feb  6 18:55:58 2008
From: rtanner at linfield.edu (Rob Tanner)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 09:55:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting python errors with bin/arch
Message-ID: <47A9F4AE.8010803@linfield.edu>

Hi,

I am trying to rebuild archives -- actually porting archives over from 
another machine and then doing a rebuild, but the problem below shows up 
inb all the archives.

I run the command "bin/arch small_centers" and get the following error:

#00000 <9c4d764c0802060656j1828bf41sbb8176d146fcbd9f at mail.gmail.com>
figuring article archives
2008-February
Pickling archive state into 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/small_centers/pipermail.pck
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/arch", line 200, in <module>
    main()
  File "bin/arch", line 188, in main
    archiver.processUnixMailbox(fp, start, end)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 580, in 
processUnixMailbox
    self.add_article(a)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 624, in 
add_article
    author = fixAuthor(article.decoded['author'])
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 62, in 
fixAuthor
    while i>0 and (L[i-1][0] in lowercase or
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xb5 in position 26: 
ordinal not in range(128)

This actually looks like a problem in a specific email message in the 
archive.  How do I identify the mesand how do I fix it?

Thanks,
Rob




-- 
Rob Tanner
UNIX Services Manager
Linfield College, McMinnville OR

From kathyg at anitaborg.org  Wed Feb  6 18:57:19 2008
From: kathyg at anitaborg.org (Kathy Gee)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 10:57:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User's Profile - "Other incoming email addresses"
Message-ID: <BA8F611626C42A48821E3EA1C75C5C6117825D@VS10.EXCHPROD.USA.NET>

Does anyone know if there is a Mailman script (or a way) that can find
email addresses that are entered in the "Other incoming email addresses"
field of the user profile page?  I have already tried using
"find_member" script which does not include these "other" email
addresses.  I have also searched on the archive files and did not see
anything remotely similar to my question.

 

Thanks!

Kathy

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  6 19:10:00 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 10:10:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User's Profile - "Other incoming email
	addresses"
In-Reply-To: <BA8F611626C42A48821E3EA1C75C5C6117825D@VS10.EXCHPROD.USA.NET>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802061010000640b8115360@msapiro>

Kathy Gee wrote:

>Does anyone know if there is a Mailman script (or a way) that can find
>email addresses that are entered in the "Other incoming email addresses"
>field of the user profile page?  I have already tried using
>"find_member" script which does not include these "other" email
>addresses.  I have also searched on the archive files and did not see
>anything remotely similar to my question.


Huh?

There is no "user profile page" or "Other incoming email addresses" in
the Mailman I know. Is this some modified Mailman?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From robert at reverson.net  Wed Feb  6 19:20:32 2008
From: robert at reverson.net (Robert Everson)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 12:20:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Default new users not able to post
Message-ID: <05EF32D4-DDCB-4F79-A944-11D92C9684FD@reverson.net>

Is there anyway to have new users unable to post to the list?  I got  
the list able to not get confirmation, and I (the admin) get emails  
whenever someone gets added to the list, for some security.

However, it now seems like users are able to post to the list, whereas  
I only want one or two people to be able to post to this list.  Is  
there anyway to default this so that new subscribers don't get the  
ability to post?

Robert

From kwz-mm at commpartners.com  Wed Feb  6 19:23:08 2008
From: kwz-mm at commpartners.com (Karl Zander)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 13:23:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT: Barracuda Reputation
Message-ID: <web-4674505@commpartners.com>

This is not specific to the Mailman software but more related to list 
management. Our lists are getting blocked by sites using the Barracuda 
reputation service.

   blocked using Barracuda Reputation

I am trying to figure out how this operates. I know how to get off of 
the CBL or that spamcop will remove the block after a time of no more 
spam and the AOL has their postmaster feedback loop. Is there any way 
to interact with the Barracuda Reputation service?

Our lists are locked down to only members. We do not allow any type of 
sign-up. Members on the lists are heavily vetted before they can even 
join.

Our challenge is the subject matter of the list. Discussions are on 
this sub-prime  mess and other types of financial scams against 
consumers. When you start talking a lot about these topics many spam 
filters will pick up on it.

We have asked members to whilelist the Mailman server IP and address. 
For whatever reason, not everyone is able to do that. Does anyone know 
if there is any type of feedback loop to this Barracuda Reputation 
service?

--Karl

From kathyg at anitaborg.org  Wed Feb  6 19:57:41 2008
From: kathyg at anitaborg.org (Kathy Gee)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 11:57:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User's Profile - "Other incoming email
	addresses"
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802061010000640b8115360@msapiro>
References: <BA8F611626C42A48821E3EA1C75C5C6117825D@VS10.EXCHPROD.USA.NET>
	<PC1760200802061010000640b8115360@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BA8F611626C42A48821E3EA1C75C5C611782F4@VS10.EXCHPROD.USA.NET>

Sorry for the confusion.  I am running a modified version of Mailman
however, I read in the archives where you can use the "whitelist"?

"In the meanwhile, your choices are to use the whitelist, or to have 
them subscribe multiple addresses and then set the others to be 
NOMAIL." - quote from Brad Knowles on the archives.

It is this "whitelist" I am referring to as the "Other incoming email
addresses" field.  Can you explain what this "whitelist" is?  I don't
see it on the user's option page (referred as "user profile page" in my
initial posting).  If it is just a field where one enters alternate
email addresses so one can post from these alternates, my question is if
there is a way to find these alternate email addresses entered in this
"whitelist".

I hope I'm using the correct terms this time :)

Thanks!

Kathy


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 10:10 AM
To: Kathy Gee; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] User's Profile - "Other incoming email
addresses"

Kathy Gee wrote:

>Does anyone know if there is a Mailman script (or a way) that can find
>email addresses that are entered in the "Other incoming email
addresses"
>field of the user profile page?  I have already tried using
>"find_member" script which does not include these "other" email
>addresses.  I have also searched on the archive files and did not see
>anything remotely similar to my question.


Huh?

There is no "user profile page" or "Other incoming email addresses" in
the Mailman I know. Is this some modified Mailman?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Wed Feb  6 20:18:00 2008
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 13:18:00 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Default new users not able to post
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Robert Everson <robert@reverson.net>'
	dated: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 12:20:32 -0600
Message-ID: <200802061918.m16JI0f3007015@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

Robert wrote:

>Is there anyway to have new users unable to post to the list?  I got  
>the list able to not get confirmation, and I (the admin) get emails  
>whenever someone gets added to the list, for some security.
>
>However, it now seems like users are able to post to the list, whereas  
>I only want one or two people to be able to post to this list.  Is  
>there anyway to default this so that new subscribers don't get the  
>ability to post?

Change default_member_moderation from No to Yes.
And you might want to change all of the current subscriptions to
Moderated, except for those members whom you want to be able to post.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From jrlamar at owu.edu  Wed Feb  6 19:40:00 2008
From: jrlamar at owu.edu (Jason LaMar)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 13:40:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT: Barracuda Reputation
In-Reply-To: <web-4674505@commpartners.com>
Message-ID: <C3CF6930.39053%jrlamar@owu.edu>

Karl,

Speaking on behalf of an organization that has long been using Barracuda
spam filtering appliances, I can tell you that the company's "reputation"
and "intent analysis" services leave much to be desired. Unlike the CBL or
Spamcop, Barracuda has never seemed willing to share the algorithms or
heuristics used to flag a domain/URL/whatever as "bad." This is
understandable in one sense, considering this is most likely proprietary
stuff, but it also has caused much operational frustration.

After being burned several times by these shady "reputation" and "intent
analysis" rules, I've just given up and gone to manual, wholesale
whitelisting of sender addresses and embedded message (body) URLs when
necessary. It seems to be the only way to get around Barracuda's default and
sometimes inexplicable characteristics.

As you can probably tell, I've grown weary and cynical of Barracuda's
issues, and we're transitioning to other spam filtering solutions. I've
heard great reviews of it in other organizations -- but it's just not
working for us anymore.

Jason

_________________________

Jason LaMar
Director of Information Services
Ohio Wesleyan University | Delaware, OH 43015
IP Tel: 740-368-3131 | AIM/Yahoo IM: jasonrlamar
Fax: 740-368-3272 | Web: http://www.owu.edu/



From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  6 21:12:03 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 12:12:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off confirmation
In-Reply-To: <94136a2c0802060041k15971305o24c4f5c5cd50c6ba@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7F5B91B0-BDEE-4006-A258-B6F8BFA7340E@reverson.net>	
	<PC1760200802051845480062b09eaece@msapiro>
	<94136a2c0802060041k15971305o24c4f5c5cd50c6ba@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47AA1493.6000706@msapiro.net>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
> 
> Hello - sorry to jump in and hijack the thread but is similar thing
> possible for unsubscribe process? That is, I would actually like to
> keep the subscription confirmation process intact but allow users to
> unsubcribe *without* confirmation. Is that possible?


No. Users can unsubscribe without confirmation by unsubscribing from the 
options page after logging in with their password or by including their 
password in an unsubscribe email command. Otherwise, confirmation is 
required.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  6 21:22:03 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 12:22:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User's Profile - "Other incoming email
	addresses"
In-Reply-To: <BA8F611626C42A48821E3EA1C75C5C611782F4@VS10.EXCHPROD.USA.NET>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802061222030859a248c27e@msapiro>

Kathy Gee wrote:

>Sorry for the confusion.  I am running a modified version of Mailman
>however, I read in the archives where you can use the "whitelist"?
>
>"In the meanwhile, your choices are to use the whitelist, or to have
>them subscribe multiple addresses and then set the others to be
>NOMAIL." - quote from Brad Knowles on the archives.
>
>It is this "whitelist" I am referring to as the "Other incoming email
>addresses" field.  Can you explain what this "whitelist" is?


It is Privacy options...->Sender filters->accept_these_nonmembers.


>I don't
>see it on the user's option page (referred as "user profile page" in my
>initial posting).  If it is just a field where one enters alternate
>email addresses so one can post from these alternates, my question is if
>there is a way to find these alternate email addresses entered in this
>"whitelist".


Users cannot add addresses to accept_these_nonmembers. The user's only
option in current Mailman (it will change in the future) is to
subscribe multiple addresses and set some of those to NOMAIL as
desired.

The admin can add addresses (or patterns) to accept_these_nonmembers,
and a moderator has the ability when processing a nonmember post in
the admindb interface to add the poster's address to any of the
*_these_nonmembers filters.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From djenkins at cs.otago.ac.nz  Wed Feb  6 21:29:32 2008
From: djenkins at cs.otago.ac.nz (Dylan Jenkinson)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 09:29:32 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting Someones Initial Password
Message-ID: <47AA18AC.2040302@cs.otago.ac.nz>

Hi there,

Having figured out how to subscribe people using the
http://[listdomian]/admin/inex/members/add?subscribees=[subscriber 
email]&adminpw=[admin password] method (thanks guys), I am now needing 
to find a way to set the users initial password. It seems that Mailman 
auto generates the passwords, but I'm trying to find a way to set the 
users password to the same as their passwords used on the rest of the site.

I have tried constructing a URL similar to the last problem, but while 
it lets me into the users options, it doesn't actually change their 
password. I have tried the following:

http://[istdomain]/options/inex/[emailsddress]?adminpw=[adminpw]&newpw=[newpw]&confpw=[newpw]
http://[istdomain]/options/inex/[emailsddress]?password=[adminpw]&newpw=[newpw]&confpw=[newpw]
http://[istdomain]/options/inex/[emailsddress]?newpw=[newpw]&confpw=[newpw]&adminpw=[adminpw]
http://[istdomain]/options/inex/[emailsddress]?newpw=[newpw]&confpw=[newpw]&password=[adminpw]

Could anyone: A) Show me what the actually string would be, or B) tell 
me a way to set the initial password for a user when you mass subscrbie 
them.

Thanks,

Dylan Jenkinson

From turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp  Wed Feb  6 21:53:47 2008
From: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 05:53:47 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  OT: Barracuda Reputation
In-Reply-To: <web-4674505@commpartners.com>
References: <web-4674505@commpartners.com>
Message-ID: <87wsphiz6s.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Karl Zander writes:

 > We have asked members to whilelist the Mailman server IP and address. 
 > For whatever reason, not everyone is able to do that. Does anyone know 
 > if there is any type of feedback loop to this Barracuda Reputation 
 > service?

I've seen it before occasionally; I was unable to find a way to deal
with it (but I didn't try too hard).  I tell users being victimized by
it to get another mailbox.  They're usually sympathetic.  Although my
users generally are techies predisposed to be sympathetic, my guess is
that there are a lot of problems with Barracuda.


From dme.gmail at eldridge.to  Wed Feb  6 22:04:06 2008
From: dme.gmail at eldridge.to (Daniel M. Eldridge)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 16:04:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off confirmation
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802051845480062b09eaece@msapiro>
References: <7F5B91B0-BDEE-4006-A258-B6F8BFA7340E@reverson.net>
	<PC1760200802051845480062b09eaece@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6b8704030802061304w27257f4fu6213ba20f69e6a13@mail.gmail.com>

If you want to avoid the risk of:
 ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = Yes

Then you--as the admin--could add the subscribers to the list
manually, Have them send their email address to you and then compile
that into a list which you then manually add via the
 Membership Management [Mass Subscription]

You have the option to ``Subscribe these users now or invite them?''

This fails to make the list updateable in real time, though I suppose the
best idea would be to subscribe with authentication from, say, a gmail
address and then have this gmail address forward messages to the
mobile device. In that way every user has two ways to read and respond
to these emergency messages. Though you're going to have to enable, or
allow, posts from the mobile if you want people to be able to post
from their mobile during an emergency. If this is in fact the case
then, perhaps authentication from the mobile device isn't such a bad
idea as you're expecting people to post from these devices during emergencies.

--Dan Eldridge

On Feb 5, 2008 9:45 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Robert Everson wrote:
>
> >I'm running a mail list that is used for emergency notification, and
> >many people subscribe using their cellphones.  Because of this,
> >sending a confirmation email isn't really the easiest way for the
> >users to subscribe.  Also, I don't really think that approving
> >everyone would be feasible for me.  Is there a way to turn off the
> >confirmation/approval process for new subscribers?
>
>
> It is not recommended, but if you want to do it, and if you have
> sufficient access to the Mailman server, you can put
>
> ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = Yes
>
> in mm_cfg.py, and then you will be offered None as one of the choices
> for subscribe_policy.
>
> Keep in mind that in addition to making things easier for your PDA
> subscribers, this will also allow your worst enemy to subscribe
> multiple people to your list and when these people start receiving
> messages from the list and replying to the list with "take me off this
> list" and complaining to their ISPs that you are a source of spam, you
> will ultimately have to close the list.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dme.mailman%40eldridge.to
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>



-- 
---
Daniel M. Eldridge
cell: 646-319-4115
phone: 212-362-6923
sent from my gmail account
mailto:dme at eldridge.to

From pilsl at goldfisch.at  Wed Feb  6 22:12:08 2008
From: pilsl at goldfisch.at (peter pilsl)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 22:12:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to remove list that has a name starting with
	whitespace?
Message-ID: <47AA22A8.7000406@goldfisch.at>


Usually I complain about users and kids that always manage to do the 
impossible, but this time I managed it myself.

I've a list on my system starting with " " and I cannot remove it.

# /usr/local/mailman/bin/list_lists -b | grep "^ "
  mystupidlist

I tried

rmlist ' mystupidlist'
rmlist " mystupidlist"
rmlist "\ mystupidlist"
rmlist \ mystupidlist

without success. Always a error like:

No such list: \ mystupidlist


any idea?

thnx,
peter








From kwz-mm at commpartners.com  Wed Feb  6 22:31:16 2008
From: kwz-mm at commpartners.com (Karl Zander)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 16:31:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT: Barracuda Reputation
In-Reply-To: <C3CF6930.39053%jrlamar@owu.edu>
References: <C3CF6930.39053%jrlamar@owu.edu>
Message-ID: <web-4675608@commpartners.com>

Thanks for the feedback.  What I find most frustrating is sites just 
trusting this stuff without thought.  "Our spam filter caught it, 
therefore it is bad.  You have a problem and are sending spam."  Sigh. 
 If I am able to walk them through the "look at the topic being 
discussed" some come around.

--Karl

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  6 23:00:31 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 14:00:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting Someones Initial Password
In-Reply-To: <47AA18AC.2040302@cs.otago.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <PC17602008020614003104842e9c4a63@msapiro>

Dylan Jenkinson wrote:
>
>I have tried constructing a URL similar to the last problem, but while 
>it lets me into the users options, it doesn't actually change their 
>password. I have tried the following:
>
>http://[istdomain]/options/inex/[emailsddress]?password=[adminpw]&newpw=[newpw]&confpw=[newpw]
>http://[istdomain]/options/inex/[emailsddress]?newpw=[newpw]&confpw=[newpw]&password=[adminpw]


Either of the above is almost right (order doesn't matter). You're
missing the submit button. You need to add

  &changepw

to either of the above. You don't have to give it a value as we only
check for its presence.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  6 23:12:24 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 14:12:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to remove list that has a name starting
	withwhitespace?
In-Reply-To: <47AA22A8.7000406@goldfisch.at>
Message-ID: <PC17602008020614122401259a343735@msapiro>

peter pilsl wrote:
>
>I've a list on my system starting with " " and I cannot remove it.
>
># /usr/local/mailman/bin/list_lists -b | grep "^ "
>  mystupidlist
>
>I tried
>
>rmlist ' mystupidlist'
>rmlist " mystupidlist"
>rmlist "\ mystupidlist"
>rmlist \ mystupidlist
>
>without success. Always a error like:
>
>No such list: \ mystupidlist


bin/rmlist can't (as you've discovered) remove a list with a leading or
trailing space. You could try patching rmlist by changing the 9th line
in the main() function from

    listname = args[0].lower().strip()

to

    listname = args[0].lower()

but it is probably easier to just do

rm -r lists/\ mystupidlist

The real question is do you know how you managed to create this list?
That looks like a hole we need to plug.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From trevor at lite3d.com  Wed Feb  6 21:49:27 2008
From: trevor at lite3d.com (Trevor Antczak)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 14:49:27 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New List Creation Hangs
Message-ID: <ABFE869A-663E-4531-B074-2B5271D7CC6A@lite3d.com>

Hello all,

I recently installed and configured Mailman to work with Sendmail.   
This installation is designed as an internal list server where  
essentially all users will be able to create lists as they need in  
order to serve specific needs.  In order to avoid a massive  
administrative overhead creating and installing alias files for every  
new list, I used the excellent instructions here:

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg47309.html

to allow Mailman to do it's own alias creation in Sendmail.  This has  
been partially successful, and I can now create lists with the newlist  
command, and aliasing is handled automatically.  When I try to create  
lists with the web interface though, something goes wrong.  Upon  
hitting submit, the little firefox wheel starts spinning, but the list  
creation never returns.  The list is at least partially created ( I  
can see it on the main page), but the aliasing isn't done, so I assume  
that somewhere between creating the list and running the aliasing  
stuff, there is some kind of hang up.   Absolutely nothing nothing  
appears in any of the logs that seems helpful (The most obvious log,  
the error log, is actually completely empty).  I'm not really sure  
what to include what additional info might be helpful.  I am fairly  
sure that I followed all of the instructions correctly, but of course  
this is not a "supported" configuration.  Essentially, anything that  
anyone can suggest I'll try, and I'll post any configs that people  
think might be helpful for troubleshooting.

The thing that seems strange to me is that "newlist" works, but the  
web site doesn't.


Thanks,

Trevor Antczak
Senior Systems Administrator
Louisiana Immersive Technologies Enterprise
337-735-1351
trevor at lite3d.com




From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  6 23:57:05 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 14:57:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting python errors with bin/arch
In-Reply-To: <47A9F4AE.8010803@linfield.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020080206145705039003a8fdcb@msapiro>

Rob Tanner wrote:
>
>I am trying to rebuild archives -- actually porting archives over from 
>another machine and then doing a rebuild, but the problem below shows up 
>inb all the archives.
>
>I run the command "bin/arch small_centers" and get the following error:
>
>#00000 <9c4d764c0802060656j1828bf41sbb8176d146fcbd9f at mail.gmail.com>
>figuring article archives
>2008-February
>Pickling archive state into 
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/small_centers/pipermail.pck
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "bin/arch", line 200, in <module>
>    main()
>  File "bin/arch", line 188, in main
>    archiver.processUnixMailbox(fp, start, end)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 580, in 
>processUnixMailbox
>    self.add_article(a)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 624, in 
>add_article
>    author = fixAuthor(article.decoded['author'])
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 62, in 
>fixAuthor
>    while i>0 and (L[i-1][0] in lowercase or
>UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xb5 in position 26: 
>ordinal not in range(128)
>
>This actually looks like a problem in a specific email message in the 
>archive.  How do I identify the mesand how do I fix it?


If you're doing a 'rebuild', you probably want the --wipe option with
bin/arch, but that isn't the problem.

The message has a hex b5 (Greek mu, micro sign), I think in the From:
header.

You can try the attached patch to cleanarch which should enable
cleanarch to find the problems. It won't "fix" them, but it will tell
you where they are.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
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From zszalbot at gmail.com  Thu Feb  7 00:08:28 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 00:08:28 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off confirmation
In-Reply-To: <47AA1493.6000706@msapiro.net>
References: <7F5B91B0-BDEE-4006-A258-B6F8BFA7340E@reverson.net>
	<PC1760200802051845480062b09eaece@msapiro>
	<94136a2c0802060041k15971305o24c4f5c5cd50c6ba@mail.gmail.com>
	<47AA1493.6000706@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <94136a2c0802061508l5a856430t94411dca34202a20@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

2008/2/6, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
> Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
> >
> > Hello - sorry to jump in and hijack the thread but is similar thing
> > possible for unsubscribe process? That is, I would actually like to
> > keep the subscription confirmation process intact but allow users to
> > unsubcribe *without* confirmation. Is that possible?
>
>
> No. Users can unsubscribe without confirmation by unsubscribing from the
> options page after logging in with their password or by including their
> password in an unsubscribe email command. Otherwise, confirmation is
> required.

Thank you Mark. Any chance of having it (unsubscribe without
confirmation) as an option one day? I run two quite large mailing
lists (12 and 28K subscribers) and I find that the biggest frustration
for people is when they are tring to unsubscribe (confirmation email
may get lost, be sent to spam, etc.) but somehow fail.

However, I know I am using Mailman only because there are people like
you who develop it, so many thanks for your work anyway!

Zbigniew Szalbot

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb  7 00:17:50 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 15:17:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New List Creation Hangs
In-Reply-To: <ABFE869A-663E-4531-B074-2B5271D7CC6A@lite3d.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080206151750039003a8fdf8@msapiro>

Trevor Antczak wrote:

>I used the excellent instructions here:
>
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg47309.html
>
>to allow Mailman to do it's own alias creation in Sendmail.  This has  
>been partially successful, and I can now create lists with the newlist  
>command, and aliasing is handled automatically.  When I try to create  
>lists with the web interface though, something goes wrong.


Because your web server is doing this as a different user.

Something in the process works for the user (mailman?) doing
bin/newlist, but not for the web server user.

The most obvious thing I can guess is that you followed the
instructions literally and put

nobody ALL= NOPASSWD: /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases
mailman ALL= NOPASSWD: /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases

in /etc/sudoers and in fact, your web server runs as apache or
something else other than nobody.

If this isn't it, then exactly how much gets done? The list gets
created. Does Mailman's data/aliases get updated? If so, this tells
you that the problem is in trying to execute the
/usr/sbin/mailman.aliases script.


>Upon  
>hitting submit, the little firefox wheel starts spinning, but the list  
>creation never returns.  The list is at least partially created ( I  
>can see it on the main page), but the aliasing isn't done, so I assume  
>that somewhere between creating the list and running the aliasing  
>stuff, there is some kind of hang up.   Absolutely nothing nothing  
>appears in any of the logs that seems helpful (The most obvious log,  
>the error log, is actually completely empty).


Have you looked in the web server logs?

It won't be in Mailman's logs because the hangup is probably in running

POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/bin/sudo /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases'

which is outside mailman (and the very last step). Since it works with
newlist, my best guess is still that the web server doesn't have
permission do do the sudo without a password, so when you run it from
the web, it hangs waiting for password input.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb  7 00:23:26 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 15:23:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off confirmation
In-Reply-To: <94136a2c0802061508l5a856430t94411dca34202a20@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080206152326075003a8ff48@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>Thank you Mark. Any chance of having it (unsubscribe without
>confirmation) as an option one day? I run two quite large mailing
>lists (12 and 28K subscribers) and I find that the biggest frustration
>for people is when they are tring to unsubscribe (confirmation email
>may get lost, be sent to spam, etc.) but somehow fail.


I sympathize with the frustration, and in your environment, unconfirmed
unsubscribe might work, but in general, I think it makes it too easy
for usera, upon seeing a 'disagreeable' post from userb, to just
unsubscribe userb from the list.


>However, I know I am using Mailman only because there are people like
>you who develop it, so many thanks for your work anyway!


You could always try your hand at a patch <wink>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb  7 02:36:11 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 17:36:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing qrunner stops working and
 outgoingmails get stuck
In-Reply-To: <47A9BD7D.7030103@trashmail.net>
References: <PC1760200802051144320109b09eaeed@msapiro>
	<47A9BD7D.7030103@trashmail.net>
Message-ID: <47AA608B.60901@msapiro.net>

SP wrote:
> 
> In fact so far my solution to the problem has been a cron job which 
> sends a SIGHUP signal to outgoin runner once a day at a fixed time, just 
> to fix the situation in case something was wrong, and sometimes in 
> correspondece to the time of that cron job I can find a similar entry in 
> the error log.


I think these are when OutgoingRunner is stuck waiting for it's connect 
attempt to complete, and then the signal interrupts the connect and 
causes the 'errors'.


> I read in some other posts in this list that possibly a cron job like 
> this is not a good idea since it can happens that the runner is busy 
> when it receives the signal, but so far this is the only (partial and 
> easy) cure I can think of... :-)


I actually think this is unlikely. After all, 'mailmanctl reopen' does 
the same thing to all the runners, and is normally done weekly or on 
whatever schedule you rotate logs, and this doesn't seem to create problems.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Feb  7 02:19:20 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 19:19:20 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT: Barracuda Reputation
In-Reply-To: <web-4675608@commpartners.com>
References: <C3CF6930.39053%jrlamar@owu.edu> <web-4675608@commpartners.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c3d00c97d9ca@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/6/08, Karl Zander wrote:

>  Thanks for the feedback.  What I find most frustrating is sites just
>  trusting this stuff without thought.  "Our spam filter caught it,
>  therefore it is bad.  You have a problem and are sending spam."  Sigh.
>  If I am able to walk them through the "look at the topic being
>  discussed" some come around.

Yes, Barracuda is screwed up and very badly managed.  Always has been 
(although it's gotten worse since they first rolled out), probably 
always will.

Of the appliances, Ironport seems to be not-too-bad on the technical 
"does it work" side, and seems to scale much better, too. 
Personally, I don't like any kind of appliance for this role, but if 
you have to have an appliance, Ironport seems like it would be a much 
better choice than Barracuda.


IMO, people who use Barracuda get what they deserve.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From robert at skipperweb.org  Wed Feb  6 23:40:56 2008
From: robert at skipperweb.org (Robert Boyd Skipper)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 16:40:56 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members seemingly able to post
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008020609193300155b431eb0@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008020609193300155b431eb0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47AA3778.6080906@skipperweb.org>

Mark:

Thank you for this information.  The headers don't seem to be the problem, as they 
contain non-member emails.  I don't have direct access to the mm_cfg.py file, and I 
can't find a user_envelope_sender in the web-based administration pages.  So I haven't 
checked into that.

However, I do have one more fact that may be relevant.  I just received another spam 
posting that got through.  It and the previous one both have emails that begin with an 
underscore: _pearl at absinth.com and _nlahtien at musikverein-altenhof.de
So, as a possible quick fix, I've set the Spam filter rule 1 to the following

from: _.*@.*

Maybe this will work?


Skipper


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Robert Boyd Skipper wrote:
> 
>> I just had a fleck of spam sully my mailing list from an email address that is not among 
>> the members.  How can this be?  There were still about thirty other piece of spam 
>> awaiting administrative approval.  How could this one have slipped through?  Where would 
>> I start troubleshooting this? I know it's not just that it's spoofing the list, because 
>> the spam ended up in the online archives.
> 
> 
> It is not always possible to tell after the fact, but here is some
> info. Note that you can find the message in the
> archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file, but this message
> has already been processed by Mailman and some Headers may have been
> changed from the incoming message.
> 
> A message will be determined to be from a member if a members address
> appears in any of the From:, Reply-To: or Sender: headers or is the
> envelope sender which will be in the initial "From " line in the
> listname.mbox file.
> 
> If the message is not from a member, it will be accepted if the From:
> address, or the Sender: address if there is one and if
> USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER is set to Yes in mm_cfg.py, is in or matches a
> pattern in accept_these_nonmembers.
> 

-- 
Robert Boyd Skipper
P.O. Box 593
Wimberley, TX 78676

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Feb  7 05:02:32 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 13:02:32 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off confirmation
In-Reply-To: <94136a2c0802061508l5a856430t94411dca34202a20@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7F5B91B0-BDEE-4006-A258-B6F8BFA7340E@reverson.net>
	<PC1760200802051845480062b09eaece@msapiro>
	<94136a2c0802060041k15971305o24c4f5c5cd50c6ba@mail.gmail.com>
	<47AA1493.6000706@msapiro.net>
	<94136a2c0802061508l5a856430t94411dca34202a20@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87myqdifc7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Zbigniew Szalbot writes:

 > Thank you Mark. Any chance of having it (unsubscribe without
 > confirmation) as an option one day?

There's a patch by Adrian Bye (actually one of his colleagues, I
think) in the tracker that provides some form of streamlined
unsubscribe.  It's described and pointed to in this post:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2005-February/017850.html

Note also Mark's reply to that post.


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb  7 05:04:51 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 20:04:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members seemingly able to post
In-Reply-To: <47AA3778.6080906@skipperweb.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020080206200451032803a8fdbb@msapiro>

Robert Boyd Skipper wrote:
>
>Thank you for this information.  The headers don't seem to be the problem, as they 
>contain non-member emails.  I don't have direct access to the mm_cfg.py file, and I 
>can't find a user_envelope_sender in the web-based administration pages.  So I haven't 
>checked into that.


Here's something you can try. Since you don't have access to mm_cfg.py,
I assume you don't have direct access to
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox either, but you can get
it from the web (if it's not too humongous) with a URL like
<http://www.example.com/mailman/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox>.
If you find the message(s) there, the initial "From " line and the
Return-Path:, if any, have the envelope sender. Then, the Reply-To:
and Sender: if any will be as in the original post, assuming your list
isn't anonymous and doesn't mung the Reply-To:


>However, I do have one more fact that may be relevant.  I just received another spam 
>posting that got through.  It and the previous one both have emails that begin with an 
>underscore: _pearl at absinth.com and _nlahtien at musikverein-altenhof.de
>So, as a possible quick fix, I've set the Spam filter rule 1 to the following
>
>from: _.*@.*
>
>Maybe this will work?


It should, assuming there's no 'real name' between From: and the
address and the address isn't in <>. I woul be inclined to try
something along the lines of

  ^from:.*[ <]_[^<> ]+ at .*

If you give this rule a Hold action, then you can see the original held
message with the original incoming headers intact. You will even see
the presence of an Approved: header or body line if any, although this
isn't likely to be the reason the message gets through as it requires
the list's admin or moderator password.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From zszalbot at gmail.com  Thu Feb  7 07:20:50 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 07:20:50 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off confirmation
In-Reply-To: <87myqdifc7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <7F5B91B0-BDEE-4006-A258-B6F8BFA7340E@reverson.net>
	<PC1760200802051845480062b09eaece@msapiro>
	<94136a2c0802060041k15971305o24c4f5c5cd50c6ba@mail.gmail.com>
	<47AA1493.6000706@msapiro.net>
	<94136a2c0802061508l5a856430t94411dca34202a20@mail.gmail.com>
	<87myqdifc7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <94136a2c0802062220h627959aw9196c835f879ffc5@mail.gmail.com>

2008/2/7, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org>:
> Zbigniew Szalbot writes:
>
>  > Thank you Mark. Any chance of having it (unsubscribe without
>  > confirmation) as an option one day?
>
> There's a patch by Adrian Bye (actually one of his colleagues, I
> think) in the tracker that provides some form of streamlined
> unsubscribe.  It's described and pointed to in this post:
>
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2005-February/017850.html
>
> Note also Mark's reply to that post.

Thank you Stephen! This is not what I am looking for. I do not want
the unsubscribe link in a message (I insert my own as I am worried
inserting footer by mailman would break html messages) so this is not
what I am looking for. I'd simply love to see "Unsubscribe without
confirmation" as an option in mailman's admin section. If I choose to
use it, I am on my own handling incidences of people unsubscribing
others.

I'd be happy to code a patch but as it happens I have never coded
anything (no technical background).

Many thanks anyway!

Zbigniew Szalbot

From gilmore.126 at osu.edu  Thu Feb  7 16:52:50 2008
From: gilmore.126 at osu.edu (Melinda Gilmore)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 10:52:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domains
Message-ID: <000001c869a1$7e84e970$aef39280@ad.service.osu.edu>

I need to set up a virtual domain without installing another mailman.   I
want to be able to just add the virtual domain.  I have been looking at the
archives and there is a lot of talk about it, but no specific instructions
on what to change in mailman.   I am also new to mailmna

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Melinda Gilmore
Systems Engineer
The Ohio State University
Enterprise Messaging/OIT
614-292-4953


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb  7 17:29:03 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:29:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domains
In-Reply-To: <000001c869a1$7e84e970$aef39280@ad.service.osu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602008020708290301258b5bbae0@msapiro>

Melinda Gilmore wrote:

>I need to set up a virtual domain without installing another mailman.   I
>want to be able to just add the virtual domain.  I have been looking at the
>archives and there is a lot of talk about it, but no specific instructions
>on what to change in mailman.   I am also new to mailmna


You need to put in mm_cfg.py

add_virtualhost('www.example.com', 'example.com')

where www.example.com and example.com are the web and email virtual
domains.

What else, if anything, you need to do in Mailman depends on your MTA.

You will need to do whatever is necessary in the MTA and web server to
support the domain.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cwieland at uci.edu  Thu Feb  7 17:29:30 2008
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:29:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cron/senddigests - error
Message-ID: <3A7D4C9B-4897-431C-8824-F49384368FAD@uci.edu>

Any ideas why I get the this?


/usr/local/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests

produced the following output:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ?
     main()
   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 86, in main
     mlist.send_digest_now()
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 60, in  
send_digest_now
     ToDigest.send_digests(self, mboxfp)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132,  
in send_digests
     send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306,  
in send_i18n_digests
     msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 240,  
in process
     url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 361,  
in save_attachment
     fnext = os.path.splitext(msg.get_filename(''))[1]
   File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 708, in  
get_filename
     filename = self.get_param('filename', missing, 'content- 
disposition')
   File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 591, in  
get_param
     for k, v in self._get_params_preserve(failobj, header):
   File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 538, in  
_get_params_preserve
     params = Utils.decode_params(params)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 337, in  
decode_params
     charset, language, value = decode_rfc2231(EMPTYSTRING.join(value))
   File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 284, in  
decode_rfc2231
     charset, language, s = parts
ValueError: unpack list of wrong size


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Thu Feb  7 17:33:27 2008
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 10:33:27 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off confirmation
In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org>'
	dated: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 13:02:32 +0900
Message-ID: <200802071633.m17GXRTm002748@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

Zbigniew Szalbot writes:

>> Thank you Mark. Any chance of having it (unsubscribe without
>> confirmation) as an option one day?

and Stephen J. Turnbull" replied:

>There's a patch by Adrian Bye (actually one of his colleagues, I
>think) in the tracker that provides some form of streamlined
>unsubscribe.  It's described and pointed to in this post:
>
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2005-February/017850.html
>
>Note also Mark's reply to that post.

I went to that mail in the archives, and it has

     You can get our patches here:

     https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1121257&group_id=103&a
     tid=300103

Note that the URL is split into two lines, and the hyperlink contains
only the first line, making the hyperlink point to the wrong web page.

Is this a bug in the pipermail archiving software?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From robert at skipperweb.org  Thu Feb  7 17:33:39 2008
From: robert at skipperweb.org (Robert Boyd Skipper)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 10:33:39 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members seemingly able to post
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080206200451032803a8fdbb@msapiro>
References: <PC176020080206200451032803a8fdbb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47AB32E3.6070402@skipperweb.org>

Mark:

Thanks again.  This is greatly helpful.  I'll look into all of these suggestions today. 
  It turns out that emails beginning with a hyphen also get through.  So I'm 
supplementing a filter for an initial underscore with a filter for an initial \W as 
well.  Until I know the exact parameter of the hole in mailman, I'd rather delay some 
legitimate posts than let through any more spam.

Skipper




Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Robert Boyd Skipper wrote:
>> Thank you for this information.  The headers don't seem to be the problem, as they 
>> contain non-member emails.  I don't have direct access to the mm_cfg.py file, and I 
>> can't find a user_envelope_sender in the web-based administration pages.  So I haven't 
>> checked into that.
> 
> 
> Here's something you can try. Since you don't have access to mm_cfg.py,
> I assume you don't have direct access to
> archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox either, but you can get
> it from the web (if it's not too humongous) with a URL like
> <http://www.example.com/mailman/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox>.
> If you find the message(s) there, the initial "From " line and the
> Return-Path:, if any, have the envelope sender. Then, the Reply-To:
> and Sender: if any will be as in the original post, assuming your list
> isn't anonymous and doesn't mung the Reply-To:
> 
> 
>> However, I do have one more fact that may be relevant.  I just received another spam 
>> posting that got through.  It and the previous one both have emails that begin with an 
>> underscore: _pearl at absinth.com and _nlahtien at musikverein-altenhof.de
>> So, as a possible quick fix, I've set the Spam filter rule 1 to the following
>>
>> from: _.*@.*
>>
>> Maybe this will work?
> 
> 
> It should, assuming there's no 'real name' between From: and the
> address and the address isn't in <>. I woul be inclined to try
> something along the lines of
> 
>   ^from:.*[ <]_[^<> ]+ at .*
> 
> If you give this rule a Hold action, then you can see the original held
> message with the original incoming headers intact. You will even see
> the presence of an Approved: header or body line if any, although this
> isn't likely to be the reason the message gets through as it requires
> the list's admin or moderator password.
> 

-- 
Robert Boyd Skipper
P.O. Box 593
Wimberley, TX 78676

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Feb  7 19:07:41 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 03:07:41 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  cron/senddigests - error
In-Reply-To: <3A7D4C9B-4897-431C-8824-F49384368FAD@uci.edu>
References: <3A7D4C9B-4897-431C-8824-F49384368FAD@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <87abmciqs2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Con Wieland writes:
 >    File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 337, in  
 > decode_params
 >      charset, language, value = decode_rfc2231(EMPTYSTRING.join(value))
 >    File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 284, in  
 > decode_rfc2231
 >      charset, language, s = parts
 > ValueError: unpack list of wrong size

RFC 2231 is not easy to implement.  ISTR a bug in our decoder meant
that it was not robust to incorrectly-formed parameters (usually in
name and file parameters of Content-Disposition), but that it was
fixed in 2.1.9 or so.

What version of Mailman are you running?


From cwieland at uci.edu  Thu Feb  7 19:08:12 2008
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 10:08:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cron/senddigests - error
In-Reply-To: <87abmciqs2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <3A7D4C9B-4897-431C-8824-F49384368FAD@uci.edu>
	<87abmciqs2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <AECEE2DB-E0BE-4005-BE34-DA5A91CD7505@uci.edu>

version 2.1.4

The odd thing though is it has only been happening the last couple of  
weeks

con

On Feb 7, 2008, at 10:07 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> Con Wieland writes:
>>    File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 337, in
>> decode_params
>>      charset, language, value = decode_rfc2231(EMPTYSTRING.join 
>> (value))
>>    File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 284, in
>> decode_rfc2231
>>      charset, language, s = parts
>> ValueError: unpack list of wrong size
>
> RFC 2231 is not easy to implement.  ISTR a bug in our decoder meant
> that it was not robust to incorrectly-formed parameters (usually in
> name and file parameters of Content-Disposition), but that it was
> fixed in 2.1.9 or so.
>
> What version of Mailman are you running?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users% 
> 40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
> cwieland%40uci.edu
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Feb  7 20:10:46 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 04:10:46 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cron/senddigests - error
In-Reply-To: <AECEE2DB-E0BE-4005-BE34-DA5A91CD7505@uci.edu>
References: <3A7D4C9B-4897-431C-8824-F49384368FAD@uci.edu>
	<87abmciqs2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<AECEE2DB-E0BE-4005-BE34-DA5A91CD7505@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <877ihginux.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Con Wieland writes:

 > version 2.1.4
 > 
 > The odd thing though is it has only been happening the last couple of  
 > weeks

Could be due to a new poster with a busted MTA, or an old poster with
a busted MTA who recently started using non-ASCII in MIME headers.

Maybe it's fixed in recent Mailman, Mark or Tokio will probably
remember, or you could look through the changelogs (browsable with
bzr, I should think) for "2231" which will probably pop it up.

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb  7 23:33:12 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 14:33:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cron/senddigests - error
In-Reply-To: <877ihginux.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC17602008020714331209219eaadb45@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Con Wieland writes:
>
> > version 2.1.4
> > 
> > The odd thing though is it has only been happening the last couple of  
> > weeks
>
>Could be due to a new poster with a busted MTA, or an old poster with
>a busted MTA who recently started using non-ASCII in MIME headers.
>
>Maybe it's fixed in recent Mailman, Mark or Tokio will probably
>remember, or you could look through the changelogs (browsable with
>bzr, I should think) for "2231" which will probably pop it up.


Actually, it's fixed in the Python email library. The problem is
discussed in the thread starting at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/email-sig/2006-July/000288.html> and
is fixed in email 2.5.8 which shipped with Mailman 2.1.9.

In any case, Con's problem is almost certainly caused by a message in
the list's digest.mbox file that has an apostrophe (') in either a
long subject or a long attachment filename.

I can't tell from the error trace which list is involved, but you can
do something like

find ~mailman/lists/ -name digest.mbox -print

to find which lists have digests pending, and then run

~mailman/cron/senddigests -l listname

on each in turn until you find the offending list. From there, you have
to edit the digest.mbox to remove the extra apostrophe from the rfc
2231 encoded header.

Note that the apostrophe in the header is not wrong, but prior to email
2.5.8, it would confuse the email.Utils.decode_rfc2231 function
causing the error.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb  7 23:51:18 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 14:51:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off confirmation
In-Reply-To: <200802071633.m17GXRTm002748@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802071451180781576c6eff@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:
>
>I went to that mail in the archives, and it has
>
>     You can get our patches here:
>
>     https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1121257&group_id=103&a
>     tid=300103
>
>Note that the URL is split into two lines, and the hyperlink contains
>only the first line, making the hyperlink point to the wrong web page.
>
>Is this a bug in the pipermail archiving software?


The poster's MUA split the line before it ever got to Mailman. Possibly
it just split the line, in which case the MUA is at fault, or possibly
it specified parameters "format=flowed,delsp=yes" in the message's
Content-Type:, expecting the receiving MUA to put it back together.

In the latter case, Scrubber used to lose those parameters. That is
fixed in Mailman 2.1.10, but I don't think pipermail knows how to
handle format=flowed in any case.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb  7 23:54:15 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 14:54:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members seemingly able to post
In-Reply-To: <47AB32E3.6070402@skipperweb.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020080207145415043798d6dae4@msapiro>

Robert Boyd Skipper wrote:
>
>Thanks again.  This is greatly helpful.  I'll look into all of these suggestions today. 
>  It turns out that emails beginning with a hyphen also get through.


Do you have any patterns in accept_these_nonmembers that might be
matching these addresses?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lachlan at lkla.org  Fri Feb  8 02:12:59 2008
From: lachlan at lkla.org (Lachlan Michael)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 10:12:59 +0900 (JST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Borks on Large Attachments
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802060846480281b8115229@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200802060846480281b8115229@msapiro>
Message-ID: <35659.137.153.0.27.1202433179.squirrel@sm.lkla.org>


> Lachlan Michael wrote:
>>
>>One more data point. An attachment of 500-600kB was ok, but an attachment
>>of 1.5MB was not.
>>
>>For the 1.5MB file case, the memory errors just kept coming until the
>> .bak
>>file was left in place, and not moved away. Does this point to the mail
>>just being too big for python?
>
>
> No. This is really the same underlying problem. It is just manifesting
> itself in an unanticipated way in the 1.5MB case. I will fix this,
> probably later today, and send a revised Switchboard.py.

Thank-you. I received the file off-list. The newer Switchboard.py works a
treat, and with a 2.3MB attachment got the following result (good)

Feb 07 12:27:41 2008 qrunner(36243): Traceback (most recent call last):
Feb 07 12:27:41 2008 qrunner(36243):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
Feb 07 12:27:41 2008 qrunner(36243):      main()
Feb 07 12:27:41 2008 qrunner(36243):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
Feb 07 12:27:41 2008 qrunner(36243):      qrunner.run()
Feb 07 12:27:41 2008 qrunner(36243):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
Feb 07 12:27:41 2008 qrunner(36243):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Feb 07 12:27:41 2008 qrunner(36243):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
Feb 07 12:27:41 2008 qrunner(36243):      msg, msgdata =
self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
Feb 07 12:27:41 2008 qrunner(36243):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 160, in dequeue
Feb 07 12:27:41 2008 qrunner(36243):      msg = cPickle.load(fp)
Feb 07 12:27:41 2008 qrunner(36243): MemoryError
Feb 07 12:27:41 2008 (36976) Unpickling .bak exception:
preserving file: 1202354860.860585+e4058698929b53b32944a60dbc3b8bad171e3028

> I am sorry for your difficulties, but I really appreciate your help in
> getting the Mailman side of this fixed.

No problem. Certainly these fixes, while not a complete solution for me,
have mitigated the pain somewhat. Also I have now installed the daily
script that was mentioned in the list a few days ago, to receive a report
about the status of Mailman/errors/number of sent messages etc and this
will be helpful too.

> Ultimately, you will need to fix the underlying issue. I don't know how
> to do that, but these errors should not be happening. In most
> installations, Mailman can handle messages of tens of megabytes withot
> this problem.

At the moment it is a case of trying one thing at a time.

Thanks again for your prompt help and excellent program!


From robert at skipperweb.org  Fri Feb  8 03:38:18 2008
From: robert at skipperweb.org (Robert Boyd Skipper)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 20:38:18 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members seemingly able to post
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080207145415043798d6dae4@msapiro>
References: <PC176020080207145415043798d6dae4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47ABC09A.7040200@skipperweb.org>

Mark:

No.  There are a few email addresses there, but they are seemingly unrelated to the 
three different ones that have gotten through.

Skipper


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Robert Boyd Skipper wrote:
>> Thanks again.  This is greatly helpful.  I'll look into all of these suggestions today. 
>>  It turns out that emails beginning with a hyphen also get through.
> 
> 
> Do you have any patterns in accept_these_nonmembers that might be
> matching these addresses?
> 

-- 
Robert Boyd Skipper
P.O. Box 593
Wimberley, TX 78676

From forrest.bao at gmail.com  Fri Feb  8 05:29:47 2008
From: forrest.bao at gmail.com (Forrest Sheng Bao)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 23:29:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't get self post after enabling "Receive your
	own posts to the list"
Message-ID: <889df5f00802072029s7a7a9ed4m45ed7812f334200f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am just beginning to use Mailman and found a strange problem. I haven
enabled "*Receive your own posts to the list*" in my personal options. Since
I am also the admin, I also unchecked the "not metoo" box of myself at
membership administration section. But I found that I still couldn't get the
posts I sent. Can someone tell me why?

Thanks,
Forrest

-- 
Forrest Sheng Bao
Ph.D. student, Dept. of Computer Science
M.Sc. student, Dept. of Electrical & Computer Engineering
Texas Tech University, USA
http://fsbao.net
1-806-577-4592

You are encouraged to use the language you prefer. I can understand Mandarin
and English. I can read both traditional and simplified Chinese, as well as
English.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Feb  8 05:36:48 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 22:36:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't get self post after enabling "Receive
 your own posts to the list"
In-Reply-To: <889df5f00802072029s7a7a9ed4m45ed7812f334200f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <889df5f00802072029s7a7a9ed4m45ed7812f334200f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3d18ccfa020@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/7/08, Forrest Sheng Bao wrote:

>  I am just beginning to use Mailman and found a strange problem. I haven
>  enabled "*Receive your own posts to the list*" in my personal options. Since
>  I am also the admin, I also unchecked the "not metoo" box of myself at
>  membership administration section. But I found that I still couldn't get the
>  posts I sent. Can someone tell me why?

See FAQ 2.8.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb  8 05:39:20 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 20:39:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't get self post after enabling "Receive
	yourown posts to the list"
In-Reply-To: <889df5f00802072029s7a7a9ed4m45ed7812f334200f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802072039200984e3ff092c@msapiro>

Forrest Sheng Bao wrote:
>
>I am just beginning to use Mailman and found a strange problem. I haven
>enabled "*Receive your own posts to the list*" in my personal options. Since
>I am also the admin, I also unchecked the "not metoo" box of myself at
>membership administration section. But I found that I still couldn't get the
>posts I sent. Can someone tell me why?


Because you're using gmail.

Gmail has a "feature" that if an incoming message is a duplicate (same
message ID) of one already in your inbox or sent folder, it ignores it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From forrest.bao at gmail.com  Fri Feb  8 05:49:11 2008
From: forrest.bao at gmail.com (Forrest Sheng Bao)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 23:49:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't get self post after enabling "Receive
	yourown posts to the list"
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802072039200984e3ff092c@msapiro>
References: <889df5f00802072029s7a7a9ed4m45ed7812f334200f@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200802072039200984e3ff092c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <889df5f00802072049i242ee16p1ed9cb37bca52225@mail.gmail.com>

No, I don't think so. I am also using the mailing list of other groups. They
are running on Mailman and I can get the posts sent by myself.

Brad, which FAQ did you refer to? I only found this one here :
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/faq.html
I can't index to 2.8


On Feb 7, 2008 11:39 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Forrest Sheng Bao wrote:
> >
> >I am just beginning to use Mailman and found a strange problem. I haven
> >enabled "*Receive your own posts to the list*" in my personal options.
> Since
> >I am also the admin, I also unchecked the "not metoo" box of myself at
> >membership administration section. But I found that I still couldn't get
> the
> >posts I sent. Can someone tell me why?
>
>
> Because you're using gmail.
>
> Gmail has a "feature" that if an incoming message is a duplicate (same
> message ID) of one already in your inbox or sent folder, it ignores it.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
Forrest Sheng Bao
Ph.D. student, Dept. of Computer Science
M.Sc. student, Dept. of Electrical & Computer Engineering
Texas Tech University, USA
http://fsbao.net
1-806-577-4592

You are encouraged to use the language you prefer. I can understand Mandarin
and English. I can read both traditional and simplified Chinese, as well as
English.

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb  8 05:56:00 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 20:56:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't get self post after enabling "Receive
	yourown posts to the list"
In-Reply-To: <889df5f00802072049i242ee16p1ed9cb37bca52225@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802072056000343e3ff0697@msapiro>

Forrest Sheng Bao wrote:
>
>Brad, which FAQ did you refer to? I only found this one here :
>http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/faq.html
>I can't index to 2.8


The Mailman FAQ at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From forrest.bao at gmail.com  Fri Feb  8 06:01:18 2008
From: forrest.bao at gmail.com (Forrest Sheng Bao)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 00:01:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't get self post after enabling "Receive
	yourown posts to the list"
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802072056000343e3ff0697@msapiro>
References: <889df5f00802072049i242ee16p1ed9cb37bca52225@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200802072056000343e3ff0697@msapiro>
Message-ID: <889df5f00802072101j38aab9bfr5b6fd3f0a3a13030@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Mark.

Damn, I spent 2 hours tonight on fighting this...

On Feb 7, 2008 11:56 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Forrest Sheng Bao wrote:
> >
> >Brad, which FAQ did you refer to? I only found this one here :
> >http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/faq.html
> >I can't index to 2.8
>
>
> The Mailman FAQ at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
Forrest Sheng Bao
Ph.D. student, Dept. of Computer Science
M.Sc. student, Dept. of Electrical & Computer Engineering
Texas Tech University, USA
http://fsbao.net
1-806-577-4592

You are encouraged to use the language you prefer. I can understand Mandarin
and English. I can read both traditional and simplified Chinese, as well as
English.

From kewlpcs at hotmail.com  Fri Feb  8 12:13:57 2008
From: kewlpcs at hotmail.com (Michael James Wright)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 21:13:57 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need some fortware to run website
Message-ID: <BAY107-W5EA4699CE7BA09C5790F3BA2F0@phx.gbl>

Hi guys 
 
I need a software to some files like IFF for my website Eg. zI downloading some files from JCU and Bom the one from Bom i'm looking at some software 
i need to be in a General access to a file through FTP can only be gained if the creator of the file has made it publicly accessible on a computer archive. This will accept the word "anonymous" as logon and your e-mail address as a password or type "guest" if you don't have e-mail address. 
As an anonymous user you can do the following:

If you're in telnet, type ftp ftp2.bom.gov.au ( or see Starting FTP ) 
When prompted for user-id, enter anonymous. 
When prompted for the password, enter your e-mail address ( or guest ) 
Type ls 
Use an ftp command to download the required information. 
Type quit to finish FTP session.
 
first of all my computer is a window home basic 64 bit 
 
Mike
 
_________________________________________________________________
What are you waiting for? Join Lavalife FREE
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26locale%3Den%5FAU%26a%3D30288&_t=764581033&_r=email_taglines_Join_free_OCT07&_m=EXT

From email.mccauley at gmail.com  Fri Feb  8 17:54:36 2008
From: email.mccauley at gmail.com (Jeff McCauley)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:54:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Signing up for a list
Message-ID: <fb6b86c20802080854r7849b520y112e35a023e98786@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a way to send a link out for individuals to use to sign up for a
list.  In other words, in a different email (or on a web site) can I have a
link they can click that will allow them to be added to the mailing list?

Thanks

--

From gmillerd at gmail.com  Fri Feb  8 19:24:15 2008
From: gmillerd at gmail.com (Gabriel Millerd)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:24:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Signing up for a list
In-Reply-To: <fb6b86c20802080854r7849b520y112e35a023e98786@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fb6b86c20802080854r7849b520y112e35a023e98786@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8f551a650802081024l6a3596e4pf13b7c95d47e3af3@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 8, 2008 10:54 AM, Jeff McCauley <email.mccauley at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there a way to send a link out for individuals to use to sign up for a
> list.  In other words, in a different email (or on a web site) can I have a
> link they can click that will allow them to be added to the mailing list?
>

Such as a mailto:MAILINGLIST-subscribe at DOMAIN.COM?



-- 
Gabriel Millerd

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb  8 20:30:47 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:30:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New List Creation Hangs
In-Reply-To: <C2372FFD-C729-490A-9F72-4B05127E96EF@lite3d.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008020811304700461c75cc7d@msapiro>

Trevor Antczak wrote:
>
>3) The data/aliases file is being updated


This says that Mailman.MTA.Postfix.create() is being called by the
create CGI and is successfully adding the aliases to data/aliases.

Assuming you have nothing in mm_cfg.py for
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS, and there's no reason why you would,
the next step is to run the command defined by POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD
(/usr/bin/sudo /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases). Since this copies
Mailman's data/aliases to /etc/mailman.aliases, and that doesn't
happen, presumably that's where the hangup is.

Note that is this command fails, and returns a failure status, that
will be logged in Mailman's error log. You can check Mailman's error
log for a message like:

'command failed: /usr/bin/sudo /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases
/path/to/data/aliases (status: <status>, <error message>'

but I suspect you won't find it, because if it were there, create would
also have returned this to apache and it would be in the apache log
which it isn't.  I think it is just waiting on something until apache
times out and kills it. The most likely thing it is waiting on is
sudo's password request.


>4) httpd error logs show the following:
>
>   [Fri Feb 08 10:44:18 2008] [warn] [client 172.20.8.19] Timeout  
>waiting for output from CGI script /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/create,  
>referer: http://goldfinger.lite3d.com/mailman/create
>   [Fri Feb 08 10:44:18 2008] [error] [client 172.20.8.19] Premature  
>end of script headers: create, referer: http://goldfinger.lite3d.com/mailman/create
<snip>


I still think in this case, sudo is asking for a password which isn't
provided. Why it is doing this, I don't know, but note that the
Mailman create CGI wrapper is group mailman and SETGID. It should
still be running as user apache, but with effective group mailman.
This may have something to do with it.

You could do a 'ps' while the CGI is hung to try to see exactly what
process is running and under what user.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cwieland at uci.edu  Fri Feb  8 21:37:12 2008
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:37:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cron/senddigests - error
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008020714331209219eaadb45@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008020714331209219eaadb45@msapiro>
Message-ID: <9A5B71BC-B47C-4FB4-B4FF-03CFB1C0F129@uci.edu>

Mark,

Your right on. I found the list but it has has been around for a long  
time and has a very large archive. Any ideas on how to narrow down  
the search? I'm not real sure where I'm looking for this.

thanks
con
On Feb 7, 2008, at 2:33 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>
>> Con Wieland writes:
>>
>>> version 2.1.4
>>>
>>> The odd thing though is it has only been happening the last  
>>> couple of
>>> weeks
>>
>> Could be due to a new poster with a busted MTA, or an old poster with
>> a busted MTA who recently started using non-ASCII in MIME headers.
>>
>> Maybe it's fixed in recent Mailman, Mark or Tokio will probably
>> remember, or you could look through the changelogs (browsable with
>> bzr, I should think) for "2231" which will probably pop it up.
>
>
> Actually, it's fixed in the Python email library. The problem is
> discussed in the thread starting at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/email-sig/2006-July/000288.html> and
> is fixed in email 2.5.8 which shipped with Mailman 2.1.9.
>
> In any case, Con's problem is almost certainly caused by a message in
> the list's digest.mbox file that has an apostrophe (') in either a
> long subject or a long attachment filename.
>
> I can't tell from the error trace which list is involved, but you can
> do something like
>
> find ~mailman/lists/ -name digest.mbox -print
>
> to find which lists have digests pending, and then run
>
> ~mailman/cron/senddigests -l listname
>
> on each in turn until you find the offending list. From there, you  
> have
> to edit the digest.mbox to remove the extra apostrophe from the rfc
> 2231 encoded header.
>
> Note that the apostrophe in the header is not wrong, but prior to  
> email
> 2.5.8, it would confuse the email.Utils.decode_rfc2231 function
> causing the error.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb  8 22:01:31 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:01:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cron/senddigests - error
In-Reply-To: <9A5B71BC-B47C-4FB4-B4FF-03CFB1C0F129@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602008020813013106251d5b3190@msapiro>

Con Wieland wrote:
>
>Your right on. I found the list but it has has been around for a long  
>time and has a very large archive. Any ideas on how to narrow down  
>the search? I'm not real sure where I'm looking for this.


The problem message is in the lists/<listname>/digest.mbox file, not in
the archive (well, it's probably in the archive too, but it's not
causing a problem there).

You need to open the digest.mbox with an editor that won't rewrap the
lines (i.e. not a word processor).

You are looking for an RFC 2231 encoded field that will have pieces
maybe like

  filename*0*='us-ascii'en'some_text_including_an_apostrophe'
  filename*1*=or_maybe_an_apostrophe'_in_a_continuation

The parameter may not be filename and the character set and language
may be empty or other than 'us-ascii'en', but there will be an
apostrophe somewhere after the first 3.

There may be more than one such, e.g. a filename in one header and a
name in another.

Remove the extra apostrophes and save the file and it should be OK.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cwieland at uci.edu  Fri Feb  8 22:40:38 2008
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:40:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cron/senddigests - error
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008020813013106251d5b3190@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008020813013106251d5b3190@msapiro>
Message-ID: <00D2E7B0-CEE4-4F68-9032-8E31DC1418C3@uci.edu>

So what am I missing. Everything looks good except:

         filename*0="[NACS-Staff] Time to order Girl Scout cookie's  
if you want
         "; filename*1="them.eml"

I removed the ' from cookie's  and I still get:

bash-2.05$ ~mailman/cron/senddigests -l nacs-staff
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ?
     main()
   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 86, in main
     mlist.send_digest_now()
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 60, in  
send_digest_now
     ToDigest.send_digests(self, mboxfp)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132,  
in send_digests
     send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306,  
in send_i18n_digests
     msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 240,  
in process
     url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 361,  
in save_attachment
     fnext = os.path.splitext(msg.get_filename(''))[1]
   File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 708, in  
get_filename
     filename = self.get_param('filename', missing, 'content- 
disposition')
   File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 591, in  
get_param
     for k, v in self._get_params_preserve(failobj, header):
   File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 538, in  
_get_params_preserve
     params = Utils.decode_params(params)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 337, in  
decode_params
     charset, language, value = decode_rfc2231(EMPTYSTRING.join(value))
   File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 284, in  
decode_rfc2231
     charset, language, s = parts
ValueError: unpack list of wrong size
bash-2.05$ ~mailman/cron/senddigests -l nacs-staff
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ?
     main()
   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 86, in main
     mlist.send_digest_now()
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 60, in  
send_digest_now
     ToDigest.send_digests(self, mboxfp)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132,  
in send_digests
     send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306,  
in send_i18n_digests
     msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 240,  
in process
     url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 361,  
in save_attachment
     fnext = os.path.splitext(msg.get_filename(''))[1]
   File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 708, in  
get_filename
     filename = self.get_param('filename', missing, 'content- 
disposition')
   File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 591, in  
get_param
     for k, v in self._get_params_preserve(failobj, header):
   File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 538, in  
_get_params_preserve
     params = Utils.decode_params(params)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 337, in  
decode_params
     charset, language, value = decode_rfc2231(EMPTYSTRING.join(value))
   File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 284, in  
decode_rfc2231
     charset, language, s = parts
ValueError: unpack list of wrong size


The rest of the filenames all look good.

con

On Feb 8, 2008, at 1:01 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Con Wieland wrote:
>>
>> Your right on. I found the list but it has has been around for a long
>> time and has a very large archive. Any ideas on how to narrow down
>> the search? I'm not real sure where I'm looking for this.
>
>
> The problem message is in the lists/<listname>/digest.mbox file,  
> not in
> the archive (well, it's probably in the archive too, but it's not
> causing a problem there).
>
> You need to open the digest.mbox with an editor that won't rewrap the
> lines (i.e. not a word processor).
>
> You are looking for an RFC 2231 encoded field that will have pieces
> maybe like
>
>   filename*0*='us-ascii'en'some_text_including_an_apostrophe'
>   filename*1*=or_maybe_an_apostrophe'_in_a_continuation
>
> The parameter may not be filename and the character set and language
> may be empty or other than 'us-ascii'en', but there will be an
> apostrophe somewhere after the first 3.
>
> There may be more than one such, e.g. a filename in one header and a
> name in another.
>
> Remove the extra apostrophes and save the file and it should be OK.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users% 
> 40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
> cwieland%40uci.edu
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From swebb at asce.org  Fri Feb  8 22:28:55 2008
From: swebb at asce.org (Webb, Steven)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 16:28:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation "Cookie" Content
Message-ID: <8A67A874AEA7024A8C8801AC1947DF8B01BFA774@EVS1.asce.org>

 
Hello,

I'm trying to determine how the "cookie" value used for invite
confirmations is generated and/or where it is stored.

We are looking into using another system outside of Mailman, such as
Lyris, to send broadcast emails to invite users to our mailman lists.
We'd like to include the URL to confirm their subscription in our
emails, but I can't find any information about how the confirmation
value is generated.  We'd need to be able either to generate the value
ourselves outside of Mailman, or figure out a way to dump a list of
email addresses needing confirmation with the confirmation value.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks,
  
Steven R. Webb
Software Engineer
	

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb  8 22:57:39 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:57:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cron/senddigests - error
In-Reply-To: <00D2E7B0-CEE4-4F68-9032-8E31DC1418C3@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602008020813573902509676b881@msapiro>

Con Wieland wrote:

>So what am I missing. Everything looks good except:
>
>         filename*0="[NACS-Staff] Time to order Girl Scout cookie's  
>if you want
>         "; filename*1="them.eml"
>
>I removed the ' from cookie's  and I still get:
>
<snip>


You may have missed it, but I said:

>>
>> There may be more than one such, e.g. a filename in one header and a
>> name in another.


You are seeing a 'filename' parameter which is part of a
Content-Disposition: header. The same message part probably also
contains a Content-Type: header with a 'name' parameter with an
apostrophe. You need to fix that too.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb  8 23:05:39 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 14:05:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation "Cookie" Content
In-Reply-To: <8A67A874AEA7024A8C8801AC1947DF8B01BFA774@EVS1.asce.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008020814053906871d5b31d6@msapiro>

Webb, Stevenwrote:
>
>We are looking into using another system outside of Mailman, such as
>Lyris, to send broadcast emails to invite users to our mailman lists.
>We'd like to include the URL to confirm their subscription in our
>emails, but I can't find any information about how the confirmation
>value is generated.  We'd need to be able either to generate the value
>ourselves outside of Mailman, or figure out a way to dump a list of
>email addresses needing confirmation with the confirmation value.


You can't generate the cookie outside of Mailman. It is essentially
random.

See <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_pending> (mirrored at
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/list_pending> and
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/list_pending>) for a way to dump
the pending requests.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From trevor at lite3d.com  Fri Feb  8 18:13:15 2008
From: trevor at lite3d.com (Trevor Antczak)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:13:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New List Creation Hangs
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080206151750039003a8fdf8@msapiro>
References: <PC176020080206151750039003a8fdf8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C2372FFD-C729-490A-9F72-4B05127E96EF@lite3d.com>

OK,

I was out of the office yesterday and couldn't play with this, but  
I've done some additional testing to try and figure it out.

1) I did, in fact give "apache" and "mailman" the necessary sudo  
privs, not "nobody", and "apache" is the user that the web server runs  
as

    from /etc/sudoers:
    apache ALL=(ALL)         NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/mailman.aliases
    mailman ALL=(ALL)        NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/mailman.aliases

   ps -ef | grep httpd:
   root      2823     1  0 Feb01 ?        00:00:04 /usr/sbin/httpd
   apache    8039  2823  0 Feb05 ?        00:00:00 /usr/sbin/httpd
   apache    8041  2823  0 Feb05 ?        00:00:00 /usr/sbin/httpd
   apache    8042  2823  0 Feb05 ?        00:00:00 /usr/sbin/httpd
   apache    8043  2823  0 Feb05 ?        00:00:00 /usr/sbin/httpd
   apache    8044  2823  0 Feb05 ?        00:00:00 /usr/sbin/httpd
   apache    8045  2823  0 Feb05 ?        00:00:00 /usr/sbin/httpd
   apache    8046  2823  0 Feb05 ?        00:00:00 /usr/sbin/httpd
   apache    8047  2823  0 Feb05 ?        00:00:00 /usr/sbin/httpd
   root     19348 18932  0 11:00 pts/0    00:00:00 grep httpd

2) I gave "apache" and "mailman" shells (the RPM creates them without  
a shell) and ran "newlist" while logged in as each user.  "newlist"  
ran without errors and created both the lists and the aliases.  There  
do not appear to be any permission problems.

3) The data/aliases file is being updated

4) httpd error logs show the following:

   [Fri Feb 08 10:44:18 2008] [warn] [client 172.20.8.19] Timeout  
waiting for output from CGI script /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/create,  
referer: http://goldfinger.lite3d.com/mailman/create
   [Fri Feb 08 10:44:18 2008] [error] [client 172.20.8.19] Premature  
end of script headers: create, referer: http://goldfinger.lite3d.com/mailman/create
   [Fri Feb 08 10:46:18 2008] [warn] [client 172.20.8.19] Timeout  
waiting for output from CGI script /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/create,  
referer: http://goldfinger.lite3d.com/mailman/create
   [Fri Feb 08 10:55:11 2008] [warn] [client 172.20.8.19] Timeout  
waiting for output from CGI script /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/create,  
referer: http://goldfinger.lite3d.com/mailman/create
   [Fri Feb 08 10:55:11 2008] [error] [client 172.20.8.19] Premature  
end of script headers: create, referer: http://goldfinger.lite3d.com/mailman/create
   [Fri Feb 08 10:57:11 2008] [warn] [client 172.20.8.19] Timeout  
waiting for output from CGI script /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/create,  
referer: http://goldfinger.lite3d.com/mailman/create
   [Fri Feb 08 11:08:48 2008] [warn] [client 172.20.8.19] Timeout  
waiting for output from CGI script /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/create,  
referer: http://goldfinger.lite3d.com/mailman/create
   [Fri Feb 08 11:08:48 2008] [error] [client 172.20.8.19] Premature  
end of script headers: create, referer: http://goldfinger.lite3d.com/mailman/create

Any other ideas based on this new information?

Trevor



On Feb 6, 2008, at 5:17 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Trevor Antczak wrote:
>
>> I used the excellent instructions here:
>>
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg47309.html
>>
>> to allow Mailman to do it's own alias creation in Sendmail.  This has
>> been partially successful, and I can now create lists with the  
>> newlist
>> command, and aliasing is handled automatically.  When I try to create
>> lists with the web interface though, something goes wrong.
>
>
> Because your web server is doing this as a different user.
>
> Something in the process works for the user (mailman?) doing
> bin/newlist, but not for the web server user.
>
> The most obvious thing I can guess is that you followed the
> instructions literally and put
>
> nobody ALL= NOPASSWD: /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases
> mailman ALL= NOPASSWD: /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases
>
> in /etc/sudoers and in fact, your web server runs as apache or
> something else other than nobody.
>
> If this isn't it, then exactly how much gets done? The list gets
> created. Does Mailman's data/aliases get updated? If so, this tells
> you that the problem is in trying to execute the
> /usr/sbin/mailman.aliases script.
>
>
>> Upon
>> hitting submit, the little firefox wheel starts spinning, but the  
>> list
>> creation never returns.  The list is at least partially created ( I
>> can see it on the main page), but the aliasing isn't done, so I  
>> assume
>> that somewhere between creating the list and running the aliasing
>> stuff, there is some kind of hang up.   Absolutely nothing nothing
>> appears in any of the logs that seems helpful (The most obvious log,
>> the error log, is actually completely empty).
>
>
> Have you looked in the web server logs?
>
> It won't be in Mailman's logs because the hangup is probably in  
> running
>
> POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/bin/sudo /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases'
>
> which is outside mailman (and the very last step). Since it works with
> newlist, my best guess is still that the web server doesn't have
> permission do do the sudo without a password, so when you run it from
> the web, it hangs waiting for password input.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

Thanks,

Trevor Antczak
Senior Systems Administrator
Louisiana Immersive Technologies Enterprise
337-735-1351
trevor at lite3d.com




From kwz-mm at commpartners.com  Sat Feb  9 15:31:22 2008
From: kwz-mm at commpartners.com (Karl Zander)
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 09:31:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't get self post after enabling "Receive
 your	own posts to the list"
In-Reply-To: <889df5f00802072029s7a7a9ed4m45ed7812f334200f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <889df5f00802072029s7a7a9ed4m45ed7812f334200f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <web-4686368@commpartners.com>

On Thu, 7 Feb 2008 23:29:47 -0500
  "Forrest Sheng Bao" <forrest.bao at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am just beginning to use Mailman and found a strange problem. I 
>haven
> enabled "*Receive your own posts to the list*" in my personal 
>options. Since
> I am also the admin, I also unchecked the "not metoo" box of myself 
>at
> membership administration section. But I found that I still couldn't 
>get the
> posts I sent. Can someone tell me why?
> 
> Thanks,
>Forrest



I note you are posting to this list with a gmail.com address. That may 
be relevant to what you are seeing if you also use a gmail.com address 
on your list. Gmail has a "feature" where it remembers the message ID. 
When you post to your list, the message comes back to gmail, the 
message ID is recognized and the message is not displayed because 
Gmail knows you already have it.

See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#2.8

--Karl

From dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net  Sat Feb  9 18:35:38 2008
From: dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net (Dennis Carr)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 09:35:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Temporary ban on lists?
Message-ID: <20080209093538.8306fc20.dennisthetiger@chez-vrolet.net>

One of the rules on the FFML were for temporary bans; I think that
Ecartis (the former list software) had such a facility, but after I
took time to RTFM I haven't seen anything as such in the Mailman set.

Is there an easy way to do this, or will I need to hack out an at(1)
job for the time being when this comes up?

-Dennis Carr


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Feb  9 19:20:41 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 12:20:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Temporary ban on lists?
In-Reply-To: <20080209093538.8306fc20.dennisthetiger@chez-vrolet.net>
References: <20080209093538.8306fc20.dennisthetiger@chez-vrolet.net>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3d39f44bc16@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/9/08, Dennis Carr wrote:

>  One of the rules on the FFML were for temporary bans; I think that
>  Ecartis (the former list software) had such a facility, but after I
>  took time to RTFM I haven't seen anything as such in the Mailman set.
>
>  Is there an easy way to do this, or will I need to hack out an at(1)
>  job for the time being when this comes up?

You can set the moderation bit for a give user, yes.  You can also 
set "emergency moderation" for an entire list, and cause all posts 
from everyone to be handled according to your moderation policy.

Was there something else specific that you wanted?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From gmillerd at gmail.com  Sat Feb  9 19:50:23 2008
From: gmillerd at gmail.com (Gabriel Millerd)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 12:50:23 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Temporary ban on lists?
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c3d39f44bc16@192.168.1.199>
References: <20080209093538.8306fc20.dennisthetiger@chez-vrolet.net>
	<p06240801c3d39f44bc16@192.168.1.199>
Message-ID: <8f551a650802091050s7f683ad8ka4a1c396cf40cb75@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 9, 2008 12:20 PM, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
>
> Was there something else specific that you wanted?
>

I believe he wants to reject (or similar action) upon a violation of a
policy for a period of time. So setting the moderation bit per use for
the next 7 days, or some sort of tarpitting.

-- 
Gabriel Millerd

From dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net  Sat Feb  9 19:53:50 2008
From: dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net (Dennis Carr)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 10:53:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Temporary ban on lists?
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c3d39f44bc16@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <20080209093538.8306fc20.dennisthetiger@chez-vrolet.net>
	<p06240801c3d39f44bc16@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <20080209105350.ca15b09a.dennisthetiger@chez-vrolet.net>

On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 12:20:41 -0600
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:

> You can set the moderation bit for a give user, yes.  You can also 
> set "emergency moderation" for an entire list, and cause all posts 
> from everyone to be handled according to your moderation policy.

What I'm looking for is to automatically turn off the mod bit for a
particular user at a prescribed time.

-Dennis

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb  9 20:37:53 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 11:37:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Temporary ban on lists?
In-Reply-To: <20080209105350.ca15b09a.dennisthetiger@chez-vrolet.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802091137530109f4566f02@msapiro>

Dennis Carr wrote:
>
>What I'm looking for is to automatically turn off the mod bit for a
>particular user at a prescribed time.


Mailman doesn't have that. There are ways to set/unset moderation for a
member from the command line such as the withlist script at
<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/set_mod.py> or the modify_members
script at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=982644&group_id=103&atid=300103>
which might simplify your at(1) hack, but you still need to set it up.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net  Sun Feb 10 00:47:23 2008
From: dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net (Dennis Carr)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 15:47:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Temporary ban on lists?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802091137530109f4566f02@msapiro>
References: <20080209105350.ca15b09a.dennisthetiger@chez-vrolet.net>
	<PC1760200802091137530109f4566f02@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080209154723.1da09a23.dennisthetiger@chez-vrolet.net>

On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 11:37:53 -0800
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Mailman doesn't have that. There are ways to set/unset moderation for
> a member from the command line such as the withlist script at
> <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/set_mod.py> or the modify_members
> script at
> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=982644&group_id=103&atid=300103>
> which might simplify your at(1) hack, but you still need to set it up.

I can do that, and can use set_mod.py, but how do I get withlist to
recognize it as a module?  Using the prescribed command line in the
URL, it does this:

list at kimba:~$ /usr/sbin/withlist -r /usr/sbin/set_mod.py ffml -s
dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net Importing /usr/sbin/set_mod...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/sbin/withlist", line 297, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/sbin/withlist", line 266, in main
    mod = __import__(module)
ImportError: No module named /usr/sbin/set_mod

-Dennis

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 10 01:52:37 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 16:52:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Temporary ban on lists?
In-Reply-To: <20080209154723.1da09a23.dennisthetiger@chez-vrolet.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802091652370968021d69ed@msapiro>

Dennis Carr wrote:
>
>I can do that, and can use set_mod.py, but how do I get withlist to
>recognize it as a module?  Using the prescribed command line in the
>URL, it does this:
>
>list at kimba:~$ /usr/sbin/withlist -r /usr/sbin/set_mod.py ffml -s
>dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net Importing /usr/sbin/set_mod...
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/sbin/withlist", line 297, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/sbin/withlist", line 266, in main
>    mod = __import__(module)
>ImportError: No module named /usr/sbin/set_mod


The correct command line with both withlist and set_mod.py stored in
/usr/sbin/ is

/usr/sbin/withlist -r set_mod ffml -s dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net

I.e. set_mod.py is in the same directory as withlist and no path and no
.py extension are given in the command.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mlmn at apcilog.org  Sun Feb 10 07:32:27 2008
From: mlmn at apcilog.org (AD-ML)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 07:32:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Signing up for a list
References: <fb6b86c20802080854r7849b520y112e35a023e98786@mail.gmail.com>
	<8f551a650802081024l6a3596e4pf13b7c95d47e3af3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001801c86bae$b85949c0$0201a8c0@perso>

such as SUBSCRIBE  in the main body of the mail or on a web page? 


I suspect [?subject=subscribe] is case-sensitive

<A href="mailto:MAILINGLIST-REQUEST at DOMAIN.COM?subject=subscribe">SUBSCRIBE</A>

Can this type of link be included in a footer efficiently?

Leonorin
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Gabriel Millerd 
  To: ReachMe at themarketingteacher.com 
  Cc: mailman-users at python.org 
  Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 7:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Signing up for a list


  On Feb 8, 2008 10:54 AM, Jeff McCauley <email.mccauley at gmail.com> wrote:
  > Is there a way to send a link out for individuals to use to sign up for a
  > list.  In other words, in a different email (or on a web site) can I have a
  > link they can click that will allow them to be added to the mailing list?
  >

  Such as a mailto:MAILINGLIST-subscribe at DOMAIN.COM?



  -- 
  Gabriel Millerd
  ------------------------------------------------------
  Mailman-Users mailing list
  Mailman-Users at python.org
  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
  Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
  Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
  Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mlmn%40apcilog.org

  Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From mlmn at apcilog.org  Sun Feb 10 07:43:16 2008
From: mlmn at apcilog.org (AD-ML)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 07:43:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw:  Signing up for a list
Message-ID: <003101c86bb0$3c26efe0$0201a8c0@perso>



Subscribe




From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 10 17:29:54 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 08:29:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Signing up for a list
In-Reply-To: <001801c86bae$b85949c0$0201a8c0@perso>
Message-ID: <PC176020080210082954000060de5216@msapiro>

AD-ML wrote:
>
>I suspect [?subject=subscribe] is case-sensitive


Only if the MUA that processes the mailto cares about the case of
'subject',and not all MUAs will even recognize the subject= fragment
at all, but this is moot anyway - see below.


><A href="mailto:MAILINGLIST-REQUEST at DOMAIN.COM?subject=subscribe">SUBSCRIBE</A>
>
>Can this type of link be included in a footer efficiently?


You can't put HTML tags in msg_footer or digest_footer because these
are placed in text/plain parts of the message, so what the user sees
is literally what you put above. It is much better to just put
something like:

Subscribe: <mailto:%(list_name)s-subscribe@%(host_name)s>

which many MUAs will render as a clickable link anyway. Note that if
you mail to the -subscribe (or -join) address rather than the -request
address, the subject doesn't matter.

Also note that the utility of putting a 'subscribe' link in mail that
presumably is sent only to people who are already subscribers is
debatable.

Finally note that subscribe and unsubscribe links are already included
in the RFC-2369 (List-*) headers of list messages unless you turn them
off.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ratnaweera at dplanet.ch  Sun Feb 10 19:32:13 2008
From: ratnaweera at dplanet.ch (Visvanath Ratnaweera)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:32:13 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails not archived
In-Reply-To: <20080204211918.GA10145@mituru>
References: <20080204192356.GA7499@mituru>
	<PC176020080204114850020363687f5d@msapiro>
	<20080204211918.GA10145@mituru>
Message-ID: <20080210183213.GA14350@mituru>

Hi

Ref: Visvanath Ratnaweera <ratnaweera at dplanet.ch> 04.02.2008 22:23
> 
> Ref: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 04.02.2008 20:53
> > Visvanath Ratnaweera wrote:
> > >
> > >The testmails are also delivered. But not archived. What could
> > >be missing?
> > 
> > 
> > Is ArchRunner running?
> 
> That was it! It did a lot of processing. At the end "Feb 2008" 
> archive appeared with the second test-mail. 

I did a "clean-up" in the server. Rather than starting qrunner,
ArchRunner etc manually, /usr/local/mailman/scripts/mailman being
now called with "start" as argument during boot. Mail delivery is OK 
but the archive is not created automatically. I have to call 
bin/arch <list> for that.

These are the running processes:

mailman   4227  0.0  0.9   9596  4888 ?        Ss   Feb06   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start
mailman   4228  0.0  1.6  11088  8332 ?        S    Feb06   1:05 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   4229  0.0  1.5  10768  7900 ?        S    Feb06   1:06 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   4230  0.0  1.2   9300  6380 ?        S    Feb06   1:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   4231  0.0  1.5  10560  7900 ?        S    Feb06   1:02 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   4232  0.0  1.2   9328  6392 ?        S    Feb06   0:54 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   4233  0.0  1.6  11016  8388 ?        S    Feb06   1:23 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   4234  0.0  1.4  10292  7524 ?        S    Feb06   1:04 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   4235  0.0  1.2   9316  6376 ?        S    Feb06   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s

What could be the problem?

regards
Visvanath

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 10 20:09:50 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:09:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails not archived
In-Reply-To: <20080210183213.GA14350@mituru>
Message-ID: <PC17602008021011095006254595f923@msapiro>

Visvanath Ratnaweera wrote:
>
>I did a "clean-up" in the server. Rather than starting qrunner,
>ArchRunner etc manually, /usr/local/mailman/scripts/mailman being
>now called with "start" as argument during boot. Mail delivery is OK 
>but the archive is not created automatically. I have to call 
>bin/arch <list> for that.


It seems like you have

ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 1

in mm_cfg.py causing archiving only to the .mbox file. You want

ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 2

to archive both to the .mbox file and the pipermail archive.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ratnaweera at dplanet.ch  Sun Feb 10 20:38:08 2008
From: ratnaweera at dplanet.ch (Visvanath Ratnaweera)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 20:38:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails not archived
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008021011095006254595f923@msapiro>
References: <20080210183213.GA14350@mituru>
	<PC17602008021011095006254595f923@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080210193808.GA15691@mituru>

Hi Mark

Ref: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 10.02.2008 20:28
> >
> >I did a "clean-up" in the server. Rather than starting qrunner,
> >ArchRunner etc manually, /usr/local/mailman/scripts/mailman being
> >now called with "start" as argument during boot. Mail delivery is OK 
> >but the archive is not created automatically. I have to call 
> >bin/arch <list> for that.
> 
> It seems like you have
> 
> ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 1
> 
> in mm_cfg.py causing archiving only to the .mbox file. You want
> 
> ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 2
> 
> to archive both to the .mbox file and the pipermail archive.

Thanks for the quick response! 

My Defaults.py set it correctly
---
DEFAULT_ARCHIVE = On
DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE = 0
ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 2
---

and not touched in mm_cfg.py. Does an explicite override in
mm_cfg.py necessary?

regards
Visvanath

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 10 21:20:11 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 12:20:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails not archived
In-Reply-To: <20080210193808.GA15691@mituru>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802101220110296fb61eed3@msapiro>

Visvanath Ratnaweera wrote:
>
>My Defaults.py set it correctly
>---
>DEFAULT_ARCHIVE = On
>DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE = 0
>ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 2
>---
>
>and not touched in mm_cfg.py. Does an explicite override in
>mm_cfg.py necessary?


No.

Perhaps there is a permissions problem. Try running bin/check_perms.
Also look in Mailman's 'error' log to see if there are errors when you
post to a list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ratnaweera at dplanet.ch  Sun Feb 10 21:40:29 2008
From: ratnaweera at dplanet.ch (Visvanath Ratnaweera)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:40:29 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails not archived
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802101220110296fb61eed3@msapiro>
References: <20080210193808.GA15691@mituru>
	<PC1760200802101220110296fb61eed3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080210204029.GA16773@mituru>

Hi Mark

Ref: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 10.02.2008 21:24
> Visvanath Ratnaweera wrote:
> >
> >My Defaults.py set it correctly
> >---
> >DEFAULT_ARCHIVE = On
> >DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE = 0
> >ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 2
> >---
> >
> >and not touched in mm_cfg.py. Does an explicite override in
> >mm_cfg.py necessary?
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Perhaps there is a permissions problem. Try running bin/check_perms.
> Also look in Mailman's 'error' log to see if there are errors when you
> post to a list.

check_perms seems to be happy:
/usr/local/mailman# bin/check_perms 
Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
   This could allow other users on your system to read private archives.
   If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
   installation manual on how to fix this.
No problems found

We might have to check manually:
all mailman processes run as user mailman

drwxrwsr-x 4 root mailman 4096 2007-11-11 15:30 archives//
drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 2007-11-13 22:55 public/

interesting
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root mailman 43 2007-11-13 22:55 /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/OURLIST -> /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/OURLIST/

withing OURLIST there is some confusion:
drwxrwsr-x   2 root    mailman  12288 2008-02-10 19:11 2007-September/
-rw-r--r--   1 root    mailman 481377 2008-02-10 19:11 2007-September.txt
-rw-r--r--   1 root    mailman  92418 2008-02-07 03:27 2007-September.txt.gz
drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman mailman   4096 2008-02-10 19:11 2008-February/
-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman mailman  33312 2008-02-10 19:11 2008-February.txt
-rw-rw-r--   1 root    mailman   4110 2008-02-10 03:27 2008-February.txt.gz
drwxrwsr-x 162 root    mailman   4096 2008-02-09 11:12 attachments/
drwxr-s---   2 root    mailman  12288 2008-02-10 19:12 database/
-rw-rw-r--   1 root    mailman  14942 2008-02-10 19:12 index.html

The explanation is simple. I migrated (had to) the list by copying files.
What are the proper settings here?

regards
Visvanath

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 10 22:40:11 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 13:40:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails not archived
In-Reply-To: <20080210204029.GA16773@mituru>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802101340110171b12de576@msapiro>

Visvanath Ratnaweera wrote:
>
>drwxrwsr-x 4 root mailman 4096 2007-11-11 15:30 archives//
>drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 2007-11-13 22:55 public/


Above are good.


>interesting
>lrwxrwxrwx 1 root mailman 43 2007-11-13 22:55 /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/OURLIST -> /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/OURLIST/


The above symlink is exactly right for a public archive.


>
>withing OURLIST there is some confusion:
>drwxrwsr-x   2 root    mailman  12288 2008-02-10 19:11 2007-September/
>-rw-r--r--   1 root    mailman 481377 2008-02-10 19:11 2007-September.txt
>-rw-r--r--   1 root    mailman  92418 2008-02-07 03:27 2007-September.txt.gz
>drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman mailman   4096 2008-02-10 19:11 2008-February/
>-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman mailman  33312 2008-02-10 19:11 2008-February.txt
>-rw-rw-r--   1 root    mailman   4110 2008-02-10 03:27 2008-February.txt.gz
>drwxrwsr-x 162 root    mailman   4096 2008-02-09 11:12 attachments/
>drwxr-s---   2 root    mailman  12288 2008-02-10 19:12 database/
>-rw-rw-r--   1 root    mailman  14942 2008-02-10 19:12 index.html



I don't know what the "confusion" is, but there is one problem.
database/ needs to be group writable. Also all the database/* files
need to be group mailman and group writable.

As I said before, if you look in Mailman's 'error' log you'll probably
see errors related to this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 10 23:01:41 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:01:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails not archived
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802101340110171b12de576@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802101401410406684a91bf@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Visvanath Ratnaweera wrote:
>>
>>withing OURLIST there is some confusion:
>>drwxrwsr-x   2 root    mailman  12288 2008-02-10 19:11 2007-September/
>>-rw-r--r--   1 root    mailman 481377 2008-02-10 19:11 2007-September.txt
>>-rw-r--r--   1 root    mailman  92418 2008-02-07 03:27 2007-September.txt.gz
>>drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman mailman   4096 2008-02-10 19:11 2008-February/
>>-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman mailman  33312 2008-02-10 19:11 2008-February.txt
>>-rw-rw-r--   1 root    mailman   4110 2008-02-10 03:27 2008-February.txt.gz
>>drwxrwsr-x 162 root    mailman   4096 2008-02-09 11:12 attachments/
>>drwxr-s---   2 root    mailman  12288 2008-02-10 19:12 database/
>>-rw-rw-r--   1 root    mailman  14942 2008-02-10 19:12 index.html
>
>
>
>I don't know what the "confusion" is, but there is one problem.
>database/ needs to be group writable. Also all the database/* files
>need to be group mailman and group writable.


Also, the *.txt and *.txt.gz files should be group writable.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ratnaweera at dplanet.ch  Sun Feb 10 23:20:43 2008
From: ratnaweera at dplanet.ch (Visvanath Ratnaweera)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 23:20:43 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails not archived
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802101401410406684a91bf@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200802101340110171b12de576@msapiro>
	<PC1760200802101401410406684a91bf@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080210222043.GA19013@mituru>

Hi Mark

Many thanks for the hotline!

Ref: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 10.02.2008 23:04
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> >Visvanath Ratnaweera wrote:
> >>
> >>withing OURLIST there is some confusion:
> >>drwxrwsr-x   2 root    mailman  12288 2008-02-10 19:11 2007-September/
> >>-rw-r--r--   1 root    mailman 481377 2008-02-10 19:11 2007-September.txt
> >>-rw-r--r--   1 root    mailman  92418 2008-02-07 03:27 2007-September.txt.gz
> >>drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman mailman   4096 2008-02-10 19:11 2008-February/
> >>-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman mailman  33312 2008-02-10 19:11 2008-February.txt
> >>-rw-rw-r--   1 root    mailman   4110 2008-02-10 03:27 2008-February.txt.gz
> >>drwxrwsr-x 162 root    mailman   4096 2008-02-09 11:12 attachments/
> >>drwxr-s---   2 root    mailman  12288 2008-02-10 19:12 database/
> >>-rw-rw-r--   1 root    mailman  14942 2008-02-10 19:12 index.html
> >
> >
> >
> >I don't know what the "confusion" is, but there is one problem.

The confustion was the difference in ownership, some owner mailman
some root.

> >database/ needs to be group writable. Also all the database/* files
> >need to be group mailman and group writable.

Corrected that and gave all database/* g+w

The next mail got archived this time!

There is still an error message:
 [Errno 13] Permission de
nied: '/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/OURLIST/pipermail.pck'

> Also, the *.txt and *.txt.gz files should be group writable.

Corrected that too.

regards
Visvanath

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 10 23:41:16 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:41:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails not archived
In-Reply-To: <20080210222043.GA19013@mituru>
Message-ID: <PC176020080210144116067166f9de8f@msapiro>

Visvanath Ratnaweera wrote:
>
>The confustion was the difference in ownership, some owner mailman
>some root.


Owner generally doesn't matter. It depends on who owned the process
that created the file or directory in the first place. The important
thing is group. Everything should be group 'mailman' and the group
should have sufficient permission.


>> >database/ needs to be group writable. Also all the database/* files
>> >need to be group mailman and group writable.
>
>Corrected that and gave all database/* g+w
>
>The next mail got archived this time!


Good.


>There is still an error message:
> [Errno 13] Permission de
>nied: '/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/OURLIST/pipermail.pck'


You didn't show the pipermail.pck file in your prior post, but it too
needs to be group mailman and group writable.

Also, all the directories in archives/private/ such as OURLIST and
OURLIST.mbox need to be group mailman and permissions drwxrwsr-x.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mjs at clemson.edu  Mon Feb 11 00:30:51 2008
From: mjs at clemson.edu (Matthew Saltzman)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 18:30:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pending messages disappeared from admindb
Message-ID: <1202686252.5377.89.camel@valkyrie.localdomain>

I use mailman-2.1.9-2 from RHEL5.

I was renaming a list according to the instructions in the FAQ.  The
last step there refers to moving pending requests in the qfiles
directory, which doesn't appear to apply in 2.1.9.  But in trying to
figure out if there was anything I did need to do, I renamed the
files /var/lib/mailman/data/heldmsg-oldlist-*.pck to
heldmsg-newlist-*.pck, then renamed them back to their original names.
After the first rename, the messages appeared in the admindb screen, but
only the sender addresses appeared for each message.  After the second
rename, the messages disappeared from the admindb screen altogether.

I checked another renamed list, and without renaming the held messages,
they all appeared in the new admindb screen.  So I guess the right
action would have been not to rename.  But now that it's done, how can I
restore the pending messages in the first list so they appear in the
admindb screen?

Thanks. 
-- 
                Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Mathematical Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 11 02:06:07 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:06:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pending messages disappeared from admindb
In-Reply-To: <1202686252.5377.89.camel@valkyrie.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802101706070703fb61f066@msapiro>

Matthew Saltzman wrote:
>
>I was renaming a list according to the instructions in the FAQ.  The
>last step there refers to moving pending requests in the qfiles
>directory, which doesn't appear to apply in 2.1.9.  But in trying to
>figure out if there was anything I did need to do, I renamed the
>files /var/lib/mailman/data/heldmsg-oldlist-*.pck to
>heldmsg-newlist-*.pck, then renamed them back to their original names.
>After the first rename, the messages appeared in the admindb screen, but
>only the sender addresses appeared for each message.  After the second
>rename, the messages disappeared from the admindb screen altogether.
>
>I checked another renamed list, and without renaming the held messages,
>they all appeared in the new admindb screen.  So I guess the right
>action would have been not to rename.  But now that it's done, how can I
>restore the pending messages in the first list so they appear in the
>admindb screen?


There are two (well actually three, but the third doesn't matter)
things associated with a held message.

These are:

1) The data/heldmsg-<listname>-nn.pck file which is a Python pickle
containing the raw message text.

2) An entry in lists/<listname>/request.pck which is keyed by the
message number (the nn in the data/heldmsg name) and which contains
various information about the message, see below.

3) An entry in lists/<listname>/pending.pck having to do with the
confirmation cookie that can be used to approve or discard the message.

The important thing in this case is 2). If you do

 bin/dumpdb lists/<newlistname>/request.pck

you may or may not see entries like the following:

    20: (   1,
            (   1202582349.7719331,
                'poster at example.com',
                'the message subject',
                'Post by non-member to a members-only list',
                'heldmsg-<oldlistname>-20.pck',
                {   '_parsemsg': True,
                    'lang': 'en',
                    'listname': '<listname>',
                    'pipeline': [   'Hold',
                                    'MimeDel',
                                    'Scrubber',
                                    'Emergency',
                                    'Tagger',
                                    'CalcRecips',
                                    'AvoidDuplicates',
                                    'Cleanse',
                                    'CleanseDKIM',
                                    'CookHeaders',
                                    'ToDigest',
                                    'ToArchive',
                                    'ToUsenet',
                                    'AfterDelivery',
                                    'Acknowledge',
                                    'ToOutgoing'],
                    'received_time': 1202582349.7179811,
                    'rejection_notice': 'Non-members are not allowed to
post messages to this list.',
                    'tolist': 1,
                    'version': 3})),

You will see that the sixth line of this contains the file name of the
heldmsg file with the original listname. Thus, as you discovered, the
proper action is not to rename this file.

You renamed this file, so admindb couldn't find it. Thus, it only
showed you some information and then deleted what it thought was a
residual entry in request.pck following a delete of the heldmsg file.
When you renamed the files back, it was too late. The entry in
requests.pck was gone.

At this point, all you can do is something like:

   bin/dumpdb data/heldmsg-<oldlistname>-nn.pck | sed -e 1,2d -e \$d |\
   bin/inject -l <newlistname>

to repost those messages you don't want to discard, and just remove the
rest.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 11 02:11:37 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:11:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pending messages disappeared from admindb
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802101706070703fb61f066@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802101711370125fb61ee42@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>At this point, all you can do is something like:
>
>   bin/dumpdb data/heldmsg-<oldlistname>-nn.pck | sed -e 1,2d -e \$d |\
>   bin/inject -l <newlistname>
>
>to repost those messages you don't want to discard, and just remove the
>rest.


BTW, after you do the above, you still need to eventually remove the
data/heldmsg-<oldlistname>-nn.pck file, as the message will
(presumably) be held again under the new list name.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mjs at clemson.edu  Mon Feb 11 02:30:28 2008
From: mjs at clemson.edu (Matthew Saltzman)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 20:30:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pending messages disappeared from admindb
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802101711370125fb61ee42@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200802101711370125fb61ee42@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1202693429.5377.91.camel@valkyrie.localdomain>


On Sun, 2008-02-10 at 17:11 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >
> >At this point, all you can do is something like:
> >
> >   bin/dumpdb data/heldmsg-<oldlistname>-nn.pck | sed -e 1,2d -e \$d |\
> >   bin/inject -l <newlistname>
> >
> >to repost those messages you don't want to discard, and just remove the
> >rest.
> 
> 
> BTW, after you do the above, you still need to eventually remove the
> data/heldmsg-<oldlistname>-nn.pck file, as the message will
> (presumably) be held again under the new list name.

Worked like a charm, thanks!

-- 
                Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Mathematical Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 11 03:52:16 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 18:52:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pending messages disappeared from admindb
In-Reply-To: <1202693429.5377.91.camel@valkyrie.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802101852160281b12de5e9@msapiro>

I updated the FAQ at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.070.htp>
to say not to change the heldmsg-* file names.

The FAQ on renaming a list at <http://www.list.org/faq.html> and
mirrors is so out of date, I'm surprised you could follow it at all,
but maybe we can change it to provide a link to the FAQ Wizard for 2.1.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mjs at clemson.edu  Mon Feb 11 05:01:44 2008
From: mjs at clemson.edu (Matthew Saltzman)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 23:01:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pending messages disappeared from admindb
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802101852160281b12de5e9@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200802101852160281b12de5e9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1202702504.5377.130.camel@valkyrie.localdomain>


On Sun, 2008-02-10 at 18:52 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I updated the FAQ at
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.070.htp>
> to say not to change the heldmsg-* file names.
> 
> The FAQ on renaming a list at <http://www.list.org/faq.html> and
> mirrors is so out of date, I'm surprised you could follow it at all,
> but maybe we can change it to provide a link to the FAQ Wizard for 2.1.

Yes, that would be helpful.

I think the whole site could use some reorganization.  I had seen the
FAQ Wizard page before, but I have no idea how I got there.  If I follow
the FAQ link in the left-hand nav panel, I get the old one.

Thanks for your help.
-- 
                Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Mathematical Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Feb 11 05:38:07 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 22:38:07 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pending messages disappeared from admindb
In-Reply-To: <1202702504.5377.130.camel@valkyrie.localdomain>
References: <PC1760200802101852160281b12de5e9@msapiro>
	<1202702504.5377.130.camel@valkyrie.localdomain>
Message-ID: <p06240804c3d5815dbae4@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/10/08, Matthew Saltzman wrote:

>  I think the whole site could use some reorganization.  I had seen the
>  FAQ Wizard page before, but I have no idea how I got there.  If I follow
>  the FAQ link in the left-hand nav panel, I get the old one.

Barry Warsaw has suggested that the entire FAQ Wizard should go away 
and everything converted over to the Wiki.  However, so far no one 
has expressed much interest in taking on the task of converting all 
the FAQ Wizard entries over to wiki format, so that they could then 
be edited and re-organized as appropriate.

If you like, you're welcome to take on that role.  ;-)

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From erasmu at gmail.com  Mon Feb 11 10:14:32 2008
From: erasmu at gmail.com (eras mus)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 09:14:32 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman lists migration
Message-ID: <c886f4b80802110114j4cb4f5c9pa457b687c2cea21b@mail.gmail.com>

how to migrate lists from one mailman version to another

From jaco at kroon.co.za  Mon Feb 11 10:24:58 2008
From: jaco at kroon.co.za (Jaco Kroon)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:24:58 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman lists migration
In-Reply-To: <c886f4b80802110114j4cb4f5c9pa457b687c2cea21b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c886f4b80802110114j4cb4f5c9pa457b687c2cea21b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47B0146A.2010608@kroon.co.za>

I used a small script, but I lost all personal preferences, fortunately 
in my case this didn't care too much.  Essentially I dumped a list of 
all "regular" and "digest" members seperately, as well as the list 
config.  Then I created the lists again on the other end, imported the 
configs, and then re-added the members.

It's rather crude, but it worked.  And as I said, we didn't care about 
the personal preferences or passwords.

Jaco

eras mus wrote:
> how to migrate lists from one mailman version to another
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jaco%40kroon.co.za
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From alxfrag at gmail.com  Mon Feb 11 13:26:37 2008
From: alxfrag at gmail.com (AlxFrag)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 14:26:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman lists migration
In-Reply-To: <47B0146A.2010608@kroon.co.za>
References: <c886f4b80802110114j4cb4f5c9pa457b687c2cea21b@mail.gmail.com>
	<47B0146A.2010608@kroon.co.za>
Message-ID: <47B03EFD.7030200@gmail.com>

Jaco Kroon wrote:
> I used a small script, but I lost all personal preferences, fortunately 
> in my case this didn't care too much.  Essentially I dumped a list of 
> all "regular" and "digest" members seperately, as well as the list 
> config.  Then I created the lists again on the other end, imported the 
> configs, and then re-added the members.
>
> It's rather crude, but it worked.  And as I said, we didn't care about 
> the personal preferences or passwords.
>
> Jaco
>
> eras mus wrote:
>   
>> how to migrate lists from one mailman version to another
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jaco%40kroon.co.za
>>
>> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>>     
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/alxfrag%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>   
i've succesfully migrated lists from one machine to the other keeping 
preference and passwords. I copied /usr/local/mailman/lists and 
/usr/local/mailman/data.

From AGabriel at jcschools.stier.org  Mon Feb 11 15:14:40 2008
From: AGabriel at jcschools.stier.org (Adam Gabriel)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 09:14:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Groupwise
Message-ID: <47B011FF.FEF8.00D9.1@jcschools.stier.org>

Greetings all!
Will mailman function with Groupwise as an MTA? I'm not too clear as to how mailman communicates with the mta, so I couldn't see an obvious way of doing this (Any docs for a non-python coder that might elaborate?). I want to run a list on my groupwise mailserver (I want to avoid another whole box if I can) but I don't think I could make 2 MTAs live on the same boxes nicely. Any thoughts?
 
Thanks in advance:
 
Adam
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Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20080211/b2ee3d6f/attachment.txt 

From mjs at clemson.edu  Mon Feb 11 15:40:31 2008
From: mjs at clemson.edu (Matthew Saltzman)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 09:40:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pending messages disappeared from admindb
In-Reply-To: <p06240804c3d5815dbae4@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <PC1760200802101852160281b12de5e9@msapiro>
	<1202702504.5377.130.camel@valkyrie.localdomain>
	<p06240804c3d5815dbae4@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <1202740831.5377.144.camel@valkyrie.localdomain>


On Sun, 2008-02-10 at 22:38 -0600, Brad Knowles wrote:
> On 2/10/08, Matthew Saltzman wrote:
> 
> >  I think the whole site could use some reorganization.  I had seen the
> >  FAQ Wizard page before, but I have no idea how I got there.  If I follow
> >  the FAQ link in the left-hand nav panel, I get the old one.
> 
> Barry Warsaw has suggested that the entire FAQ Wizard should go away 
> and everything converted over to the Wiki.  However, so far no one 
> has expressed much interest in taking on the task of converting all 
> the FAQ Wizard entries over to wiki format, so that they could then 
> be edited and re-organized as appropriate.
> 
> If you like, you're welcome to take on that role.  ;-)

I'd love to, but am regrettably already overcomitted.
-- 
                Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Mathematical Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs

From cpz at tuunq.com  Mon Feb 11 17:10:58 2008
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:10:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Groupwise
In-Reply-To: <47B011FF.FEF8.00D9.1@jcschools.stier.org> from Adam Gabriel at
	"Feb 11, 2008 09:14:40 am"
Message-ID: <20080211161058.BCF297AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Adam Gabriel wrote:
> Greetings all!
> Will mailman function with Groupwise as an MTA? I'm not too clear as to how mailman communicates with the mta, so I couldn't see an obvious way of doing this (Any docs for a non-python coder that might elaborate?). I want to run a list on my groupwise mailserver (I want to avoid another whole box if I can) but I don't think I could make 2 MTAs live on the same boxes nicely. Any thoughts?

Mailman should function with any MTA that plays by the usual SMTP rules.
OTOH, it might be easier in the long run to use postfix with mailman, 
and have postfix direct everything into groupwise.  (OTOH, you won't
get the mailman aliases into the groupwise address book.)

z!
who actuallly hasn't touched groupwise in  a long time

From cpz at tuunq.com  Mon Feb 11 17:14:23 2008
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:14:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman lists migration
In-Reply-To: <c886f4b80802110114j4cb4f5c9pa457b687c2cea21b@mail.gmail.com> from
	eras mus at "Feb 11, 2008 09:14:32 am"
Message-ID: <20080211161423.87E617AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, eras mus wrote:
> how to migrate lists from one mailman version to another

Try FAQ 3.4, the second block of text is probably what you want.

> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
from here...

z!


From AGabriel at jcschools.stier.org  Mon Feb 11 23:00:41 2008
From: AGabriel at jcschools.stier.org (Adam Gabriel)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 17:00:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Groupwise
In-Reply-To: <20080211161058.BCF297AE@mail.tuunq.com>
References: <47B011FF.FEF8.00D9.1@jcschools.stier.org> from Adam Gabriel at
	"Feb 11, 2008 09:14:40 am" <20080211161058.BCF297AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <47B07F38.FEF8.00D9.1@jcschools.stier.org>

>>> Carl Zwanzig <cpz at tuunq.com> 2/11/2008 11:10 AM >>>
Mailman should function with any MTA that plays by the usual SMTP rules.
OTOH, it might be easier in the long run to use postfix with mailman, 
and have postfix direct everything into groupwise.  (OTOH, you won't
get the mailman aliases into the groupwise address book.)
 
Carl,
That's my concern... When a user sends a message to a list, it would normally find the listname in the asiases file, and pipe the mail into the /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman python script, correct?
With groupwise, the system does have its Internet Agent that does play by SMTP, but it has no concept of local users, aliases, etc. It gets its users from eDirectory, and I can't make an alias/nickname that groupwise will understands that will point to a pipe/file... only to other eDirectory (LDAP) objects
 
Can you elaborate on your other suggestion - have postfix direct everything into GW? Could I run it on the same box, maybe just on another port and have it function still?
 
Thanks - Adam

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 11 23:56:29 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 14:56:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Groupwise
In-Reply-To: <47B07F38.FEF8.00D9.1@jcschools.stier.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020080211145629042127300c02@msapiro>

Adam Gabriel wrote:

>>>> Carl Zwanzig <cpz at tuunq.com> 2/11/2008 11:10 AM >>>
>Mailman should function with any MTA that plays by the usual SMTP rules.
>OTOH, it might be easier in the long run to use postfix with mailman, 
>and have postfix direct everything into groupwise.  (OTOH, you won't
>get the mailman aliases into the groupwise address book.)
> 
>Carl,
>That's my concern... When a user sends a message to a list, it would normally find the listname in the asiases file, and pipe the mail into the /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman python script, correct?
>With groupwise, the system does have its Internet Agent that does play by SMTP, but it has no concept of local users, aliases, etc. It gets its users from eDirectory, and I can't make an alias/nickname that groupwise will understands that will point to a pipe/file... only to other eDirectory (LDAP) objects
> 
>Can you elaborate on your other suggestion - have postfix direct everything into GW? Could I run it on the same box, maybe just on another port and have it function still?


I think there's some confusion here between incoming mail to Mailman
and outgoing mail from Mailman. Mailman delivers it's outgoing mail
via SMTP to whatever MTA is defined in mm_cfg.py by SMTPHOST and
SMTPPORT. The defaults for these if not defined in mm_cfg.py are
'localhost' and 0 respectively, and the port = 0 tells the Python
smtplib to use the default SMTP port which is 25.

Incoming mail is the issue you're concerned about, and this is normally
delivered via a pipe to the mail wrapper with ten specific addresses
per list and the corresponding ten pipe commands established via
aliases or programattically depending on the MTA.

If Groupwise cannot be made to deliver to a pipe, you have a few other
options.

1) Use Mailman's 'experimental' Maildir delivery. See the comments
surrounding the USE_MAILDIR setting in Defaults.py and also those at
the beginning of Mailman/Queue/MaildirRunner.py. This will work if you
can get Groupwise to deliver all list mail to a Maildir.

2) Possibly you can establish a separate domain for Mailman lists only
and set your DNS records so that mail for that domain bypasses
Groupwise and gets delivered to a different MTA on the Mailman box.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cpz at tuunq.com  Tue Feb 12 00:47:22 2008
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 15:47:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Groupwise
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080211145629042127300c02@msapiro> from Mark Sapiro at
	"Feb 11, 2008 02:56:29 pm"
Message-ID: <20080211234722.DC78D7AF@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Incoming mail is the issue you're concerned about, and this is normally
> delivered via a pipe to the mail wrapper with ten specific addresses
> per list and the corresponding ten pipe commands established via
> aliases or programattically depending on the MTA.
> 
> If Groupwise cannot be made to deliver to a pipe, you have a few other
> options.

If GW can deliver via SMTP, but not pipes, adding another MTA to the 
path should get around this  (GW -> Postfix via SMTP, psotfix uses a pipe to
send into mailman.) That was was initial thought behind the postfix 
suggestion.  I don't consider it exactly an elegent solution, but 
it should work. 

z!

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Feb 12 05:30:21 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 22:30:21 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Groupwise
In-Reply-To: <20080211234722.DC78D7AF@mail.tuunq.com>
References: <20080211234722.DC78D7AF@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c3d6d09b4e48@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/11/08, Carl Zwanzig wrote:

>  If GW can deliver via SMTP, but not pipes, adding another MTA to the
>  path should get around this  (GW -> Postfix via SMTP, psotfix uses a pipe to
>  send into mailman.) That was was initial thought behind the postfix
>  suggestion.  I don't consider it exactly an elegent solution, but
>  it should work.

Disclaimer: All of what is about to follow is based on my past 
experience and my current understanding.  However, I don't have any 
direct hands-on experience with the software in question.

GroupWise is a PC-based LAN e-mail package, so you're unlikely to get 
postfix also running on that same box, unless you're using virtual 
machine technology to run multiple different server OSes on the same 
physical box.  It's not a traditional MTA, it's more of a gateway to 
a proprietary LAN e-mail package, and isn't going to handle well the 
inbound aliases issue for Mailman -- much like using Exchange as your 
MTA.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From her at adm.ku.dk  Tue Feb 12 09:03:27 2008
From: her at adm.ku.dk (Henrik Rasmussen)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:03:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No subscription is made despite confirmation
Message-ID: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BE1FE@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>

One of my list administrators have celled me regarding some users not being subscribed to a list. Mailman have sent the users in question a confirmation ticket, and the subscribe log shows that the users have been put in pending mode.
 
Jan 31 13:09:33 2008 (2223) listname: pending me at privacy.net <mailto:me at privacy.net>   me at privacy.net <mailto:me at privacy.net> 
 
When the users returned the mail, Mailman issued a New command
 
Jan 31 13:11:29 2008 (2223) listname: new "me at privacy.net <mailto:me at privacy.net> " <>, via email confirmation

 
but still the users wasn't subscribed (list_members listname still did not show the user as member of the list). A few days later one of the users retried subscribing, and the same happened. The log does not show any signs that the user have tried unsubscribing (deleted).
 
According to the error log at the particular time, Mailman seems to have failed subscribing the user.
 
Jan 31 11:36:09 2008 (2223) SHUNTING: 1201775768.8376081+629ed6771846a9304e6eca2178f2047980aa8630
Jan 31 13:10:06 2008 (2223) Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xf8 in position 5: ordinal not in range(128)
Jan 31 13:10:06 2008 (2223) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 237, in _dispose
    res.process()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 110, in process
    stop = self.do_command(cmd, args)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 135, in do_command
    return self.do_command(cmd, args)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 137, in do_command
    return handler.process(self, args)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Commands/cmd_confirm.py", line 86, in process
    if line.lstrip() == match:
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xf8 in position 5: ordinal not in range(128)
 
>From the log entries above, can some of you explain to me what might be wrong?
 
Henrik

From ericlee at labourstart.org  Tue Feb 12 14:15:19 2008
From: ericlee at labourstart.org (Eric Lee)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:15:19 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending MovableType notifications via Mailman
Message-ID: <f9467540802120515l2fe4e7d2l86db689302bf7d9c@mail.gmail.com>

I've read about this in several places on the web and have nearly got it
working - but am missing a vital piece of the puzzle.

MovableType (blogging software) sends out Notifications using BCC.  I have
put the address for my Mailman list as the sole subscriber to the
Notification List.  But when I send out a message, even though I receive a
copy as the Mailman list owner, it doesn't go for moderation and isn't sent
to the list.

When I do the same thing from an email client -- sending out a message via
BCC to my Mailman list, coming from the same address (which is the list
administrator address anyway), everything works fine.

In Mailman, I've set the "require_explicit_destination" setting to "No"
which allows BCC'd messages to come through, and I'm using the same 'From'
address in both cases.

So why is Mailman treating one (sent via the email client) as a submission
to the list, to be moderated, and the other (sent to the same address via
MovableType) isn't treated this way.  What could be the difference?

Thanks very much.

Eric Lee


-- 
Phone: +44 7 846658571 or +44 2083461953
Email: ericlee at labourstart.org
Skype: erictlee
Web: http://www.labourstart.org
Blog: http://www.ericlee.info

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 12 17:09:14 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 08:09:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No subscription is made despite confirmation
In-Reply-To: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BE1FE@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>
Message-ID: <PC176020080212080914031210eb5126@msapiro>

Henrik Rasmussen wrote:

>One of my list administrators have celled me regarding some users not being subscribed to a list. Mailman have sent the users in question a confirmation ticket, and the subscribe log shows that the users have been put in pending mode.
> 
>Jan 31 13:09:33 2008 (2223) listname: pending me at privacy.net <mailto:me at privacy.net>   me at privacy.net <mailto:me at privacy.net> 
> 
>When the users returned the mail, Mailman issued a New command
> 
>Jan 31 13:11:29 2008 (2223) listname: new "me at privacy.net <mailto:me at privacy.net> " <>, via email confirmation


And this user is successfully subscribed. The only things left to do
after the "new" log entry is written are

 - Send the welcome to the user if the list's send_welcome_msg is Yes.

 - Send the notice to the admin if the list's admin_notify_mchanges is
   Yes.

Were these messages received?


>but still the users wasn't subscribed (list_members listname still did not show the user as member of the list).


I don't know why this would be the case. Does subscribe and confirm by
email work for other lists? For other users on this list? What if the
user confirms by web?


>A few days later one of the users retried subscribing, and the same happened. The log does not show any signs that the user have tried unsubscribing (deleted).
> 
>According to the error log at the particular time, Mailman seems to have failed subscribing the user.



These errors have nothing to do with the problem.

 
>Jan 31 11:36:09 2008 (2223) SHUNTING: 1201775768.8376081+629ed6771846a9304e6eca2178f2047980aa8630


This is from a shunted message at 11:36:09. The error that caused the
shunting is the traceback with the same timestamp that precedes the
above message in the log.


>Jan 31 13:10:06 2008 (2223) Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xf8 in position 5: ordinal not in range(128)
>Jan 31 13:10:06 2008 (2223) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 237, in _dispose
>    res.process()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 110, in process
>    stop = self.do_command(cmd, args)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 135, in do_command
>    return self.do_command(cmd, args)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 137, in do_command
>    return handler.process(self, args)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Commands/cmd_confirm.py", line 86, in process
>    if line.lstrip() == match:
>UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xf8 in position 5: ordinal not in range(128)


And this traceback is probably followed by another 'shunting' entry for
the message that caused it.

These error log entries are from messages (most likely spam) with
unencoded non-ascii characters in headers such as Subject: or From:.

You can see these messages in the shunt queue and determine what they
are.

  bin/show_qfiles qfiles/shunt/*

It is possible that the traceback at 13:10:06 is from this user's
confirm attempt, but even if this is the case, the confirm was
successfully retried by the user, because if it hadn't been, there
would be no 'new' entry in the subscribe log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cpz at tuunq.com  Tue Feb 12 18:08:11 2008
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:08:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Groupwise
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c3d6d09b4e48@[192.168.1.199]> from Brad Knowles at "Feb
	11, 2008 10:30:21 pm"
Message-ID: <20080212170812.243E17AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Brad Knowles wrote:

> GroupWise is a PC-based LAN e-mail package, so you're unlikely to get 
> postfix also running on that same box, unless you're using virtual 
> machine technology to run multiple different server OSes on the same 
> physical box.  It's not a traditional MTA, it's more of a gateway to 
> a proprietary LAN e-mail package, and isn't going to handle well the 
> inbound aliases issue for Mailman -- much like using Exchange as your 
> MTA.

Groupwise grew out of WordPerfect Office, which was a shared-file
type of system, but as I understand, Groupwise has been a real client/
server setup for years now. (Novell claims it'll run on windows, netware,
and unix/linux).  Since it does have an "Internet mail" connector, or
whatevern Novell calls it, it should be able to interface with Mailman
somehow.

Either way, I don't think that mail transport probably is as much of
a problem as  address book integration is.   (I like the idea of putting
the mailman addresses in their own subdomain.)

All this is, of course, conjecture on my part.

z!

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 12 18:10:22 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:10:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending MovableType notifications via Mailman
In-Reply-To: <f9467540802120515l2fe4e7d2l86db689302bf7d9c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802120910220421986b899b@msapiro>

Eric Lee wrote:
>
>So why is Mailman treating one (sent via the email client) as a submission
>to the list, to be moderated, and the other (sent to the same address via
>MovableType) isn't treated this way.  What could be the difference?


The envelope sender and the Sender:, From: and Reply-To: headers all
potentially affect whether a message is accepted or not.

I could be wrong, but I suspect you  have generic_nonmember_action set
to Discard, and the messages from MovableType are being discarded as
non-member posts. If this is the case, there will be 'Message
discarded' entries in Mailman's vette log, but they will only tell you
the message was discarded, not why. If you set forward_auto_discards
to Yes, you will receive a discard notice containing the message which
may help you determine what the problem is.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ericlee at labourstart.org  Tue Feb 12 19:28:18 2008
From: ericlee at labourstart.org (Eric Lee)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:28:18 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending MovableType notifications via Mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802120910220421986b899b@msapiro>
References: <f9467540802120515l2fe4e7d2l86db689302bf7d9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200802120910220421986b899b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <f9467540802121028kcf01a36rf2dc145403b6259b@mail.gmail.com>

I just checked and unfortunately, both the variables are set as you
suggested -- generic_nonmember_action  is 'hold' and forward_auto_discards
is 'yes'.  But I'm not getting any error messages back.  Any other ideas?
Thanks.

Oh, and take what you have gathered from coincidence.

Eric

On Feb 12, 2008 5:10 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Eric Lee wrote:
> >
> >So why is Mailman treating one (sent via the email client) as a
> submission
> >to the list, to be moderated, and the other (sent to the same address via
> >MovableType) isn't treated this way.  What could be the difference?
>
>
> The envelope sender and the Sender:, From: and Reply-To: headers all
> potentially affect whether a message is accepted or not.
>
> I could be wrong, but I suspect you  have generic_nonmember_action set
> to Discard, and the messages from MovableType are being discarded as
> non-member posts. If this is the case, there will be 'Message
> discarded' entries in Mailman's vette log, but they will only tell you
> the message was discarded, not why. If you set forward_auto_discards
> to Yes, you will receive a discard notice containing the message which
> may help you determine what the problem is.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
Phone: +44 7 846658571 or +44 2083461953
Email: ericlee at labourstart.org
Skype: erictlee
Web: http://www.labourstart.org
Blog: http://www.ericlee.info

From msilva at nmcourts.com  Tue Feb 12 21:38:06 2008
From: msilva at nmcourts.com (Mario Silva Borrego)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:38:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error compiling mailman 2.1.9
Message-ID: <47B203AE.7020100@nmcourts.com>

Hi guys:

I am trygin to compile mailman 2.1.9 and I got this error:

configure: error: can only configure for one host and one target at a time

My gcc version is: gcc (GCC) 3.4.6 20060404 (Red Hat 3.4.6-9)
My Linux distribution is:  CentOS 4.3


I am calling the configure with this little script:

CONTENTDIR=/var/www
PROG=mailman
# Installation directories
MMDIR=/usr/lib/${PROG}
VARMMDIR=/var/lib/${PROG}
DOCDIR=/usr/share/doc/${PROG}
CONFIGDIR=/etc/${PROG}
DATADIR=${VARMMDIR}/data
LOCKDIR=/var/lock/${PROG}
LOGDIR=/var/log/${PROG}
PIDDIR=/var/run/${PROG}
QUEUEDIR=/var/spool/${PROG}
HTTPDCONFDIR=/etc/httpd/conf.d
HTTPDCONFFILE=${PROG}.conf

# Now, the user and group the CGIs will expect to be run under.  This 
should
# match the user and group the web server is configured to run as.  The 
scripts
# will error out if they are invoked by any other user.
cgiuser=apache
cgigroup=apache

# Now, the user and group the scripts will actually execute as.
mmuser=mailman
mmuserid=41
mmgroup=mailman
mmgroupid=41

# Directory/File modes & permissions
dirmode=2775
exemode=2755

# Now, the groups your mail spoolers run as.  Sendmail uses mail(12)
# and postfix used to use nobody, but now uses postfix
mailgroup="mail postfix mailman nobody daemon"

# Python binary
__python=/usr/bin/python

# The mail wrapper program
mail_wrapper=mailman

./configure --prefix=${MMDIR}  \
       --prefix=${MMDIR} \
       --with-var-prefix=${VARMMDIR} \
       --with-config-dir=${CONFIGDIR} \
       --with-lock-dir=${LOCKDIR} \
       --with-log-dir=${LOGDIR} \
       --with-pid-dir=${PIDDIR} \
       --with-queue-dir=${QUEUEDIR} \
       --with-python=${__python} \
       --with-mail-gid=${mailgroup} \
       --with-cgi-id=${cgiuser} \
       --with-cgi-gid=${cgigroup} \
       --with-mailhost=localhost.localdomain \
       --with-urlhost=localhost.localdomain \
       --without-permcheck

-- 
Mario Silva Borrego
Systems Administrator
Supreme Court of New Mexico
Judicial Information Division
2905 Rodeo Park Dr. East, Bldg. #5
Santa Fe, NM 87505
Phone:  (505) 476-6959 / Mobil: (505) 660-1026
Fax:    (505) 476-6952

Website:  http://www.nmcourts.gov
mailto: mario.silva at nmcourts.gov

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From steve at marmot.org  Tue Feb 12 23:47:27 2008
From: steve at marmot.org (Steve Lindemann)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:47:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce file questions
Message-ID: <47B221FF.8090503@marmot.org>

I have two questions... I've looked at the FAQ and can't find the 
answer.  Not to say it isn't there but searching on the string "bounce" 
I didn't see an answer to either question.


1) Is it safe to delete a file hung up in mailman/qfiles/bounces?

I have one
-rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 3751 Jan  2 07:02 
1199282543.316215+a0fe738c4585516ea7c4b848e2a18442fc616c5c.bak
that I think I can delete (contents are spam anyway)


2) Is it safe to delete a file "bounce-events-*.pck" hung up in 
mailman/data?

I have one
-rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman  5764 Jan 24 00:00 bounce-events-03252.pck
that isn't going away.  I've watched the directory and other 
bounce-events files have appeared and disappeared (eventually).


Just out of curiosity I checked the logs and:

# grep 1199282543.316215 /var/log/mailman/*
error.3:Jan 02 07:02:23 2008 (3252) Ignoring unparseable message: 
1199282543.316215+a0fe738c4585516ea7c4b848e2a18442fc616c5c
error.3:Jan 24 08:08:10 2008 (3281) Ignoring unparseable message: 
1199282543.316215+a0fe738c4585516ea7c4b848e2a18442fc616c5c

I'm assuming (and all that entails) that it is safe to simply delete 
these files, but wanted to check with anyone smarter about mailman than 
I'm likely to ever be first.  Thanks!
--
Steve Lindemann                         __
Network Administrator                  //\\  ASCII Ribbon Campaign
Marmot Library Network, Inc.           \\//  against HTML/RTF email,
   url: http://www.marmot.org           //\\  vCards & M$ attachments
email: mailto:steve at marmot.org
voice: +1.970.242.3331 ext 116
   fax: +1.970.245.7854


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Feb 13 00:22:26 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:22:26 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  No subscription is made despite confirmation
In-Reply-To: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BE1FE@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>
References: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BE1FE@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>
Message-ID: <87ve4t4v65.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Henrik Rasmussen writes:

 > UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xf8 in
 > position 5: ordinal not in range(128) 

Your user is sending mail with raw 8-bit characters (in this case
probably meaning "?") in the headers.  This is forbidden by RFC 2822.
The universally accepted way to do this is by using MIME encoded words.

The only reasonable solution is to get your users to stop doing that.
This may require them to subscribe that address from a different MUA.

Mailman (actually, the email module) does not handle this gracefully,
but there is nothing sane that can be done with it by the Mailman
developers except to cause Mailman to explicitly refuse to process the
subscription.  (You or your organization could hack in an assumption
as to which coded character set is intended, but that would obviously
not be appropriate for general distribution.)

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Feb 13 00:29:48 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:29:48 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Sending MovableType notifications via Mailman
In-Reply-To: <f9467540802120515l2fe4e7d2l86db689302bf7d9c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9467540802120515l2fe4e7d2l86db689302bf7d9c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87tzkd4utv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Eric Lee writes:

 > When I do the same thing from an email client -- sending out a message via
 > BCC to my Mailman list, coming from the same address (which is the list
 > administrator address anyway), everything works fine.

It's probably not coming from the same addresses.  Note plural.  IIRC
Mailman considers three different addresses, the RFC 2822 From, the
RFC 2822 Sender, and the RFC 2821 envelope sender for possible
matching with the member list and other whitelisted addresses.

The envelope sender is usually a system user.  Probably the list
administrator mailbox is not the name of a system user account, and
equally probably MovableType is not running under the same system user
that your mail client is.

This is a very likely difference between the working and nonworking
cases.  I don't know if it accounts for the behavior, though, it's
just something to check.


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 13 00:43:21 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:43:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error compiling mailman 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <47B203AE.7020100@nmcourts.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802121543210875b03df300@msapiro>

Mario Silva Borrego wrote:
>
>I am trygin to compile mailman 2.1.9 and I got this error:
>
>configure: error: can only configure for one host and one target at a time
>
>My gcc version is: gcc (GCC) 3.4.6 20060404 (Red Hat 3.4.6-9)
>My Linux distribution is:  CentOS 4.3
>
>
>I am calling the configure with this little script:


I see a few issues with this script, but I can run it verbatim on
CentOS 5 and it issues

configure: WARNING: you should use --build, --host, --target

four times, but runs fine with no error. The warnings (not very
informative) come from

--with-mail-gid=${mailgroup}

and the fact that mailgroup is defined as

mailgroup="mail postfix mailman nobody daemon"

Also, this doesn't work. As far as I can tell, --with-mail-gid= needs
to be a single group, not a list of groups.  And even if you can make
it accept a list, it may not work as the wrapper will be compiled with
the first group from the list that is an existant group on your
system, so in my case for example, I have a 'mail' group, but my MTA
runs as 'postfix' so the above list would compile the wrapper with
'mail' which wouldn't work.

See more comments below.


>
>CONTENTDIR=/var/www
>PROG=mailman
># Installation directories
>MMDIR=/usr/lib/${PROG}
>VARMMDIR=/var/lib/${PROG}
>DOCDIR=/usr/share/doc/${PROG}
>CONFIGDIR=/etc/${PROG}
>DATADIR=${VARMMDIR}/data
>LOCKDIR=/var/lock/${PROG}
>LOGDIR=/var/log/${PROG}
>PIDDIR=/var/run/${PROG}
>QUEUEDIR=/var/spool/${PROG}
>HTTPDCONFDIR=/etc/httpd/conf.d
>HTTPDCONFFILE=${PROG}.conf
>
># Now, the user and group the CGIs will expect to be run under.  This should
># match the user and group the web server is configured to run as.  The scripts
># will error out if they are invoked by any other user.
>cgiuser=apache
>cgigroup=apache


The cgi user is not checked by the wrappers and there is no
--with-cgi-id option.


># Now, the user and group the scripts will actually execute as.
>mmuser=mailman
>mmuserid=41
>mmgroup=mailman
>mmgroupid=41
>
># Directory/File modes & permissions
>dirmode=2775
>exemode=2755
>
># Now, the groups your mail spoolers run as.  Sendmail uses mail(12)
># and postfix used to use nobody, but now uses postfix
>mailgroup="mail postfix mailman nobody daemon"
>
># Python binary
>__python=/usr/bin/python
>
># The mail wrapper program
>mail_wrapper=mailman
>
>./configure --prefix=${MMDIR}  \
>       --prefix=${MMDIR} \


Redundant --prefix


>       --with-var-prefix=${VARMMDIR} \
>       --with-config-dir=${CONFIGDIR} \
>       --with-lock-dir=${LOCKDIR} \
>       --with-log-dir=${LOGDIR} \
>       --with-pid-dir=${PIDDIR} \
>       --with-queue-dir=${QUEUEDIR} \


Have you patched Mailman with RedHat's FHS patch from
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2004-October/017343.html>
or something similar?  If not, the above five options don't exist. If
so, maybe you broke configure with the patch.


>       --with-python=${__python} \
>       --with-mail-gid=${mailgroup} \
>       --with-cgi-id=${cgiuser} \

no --with-cgi-id option

>       --with-cgi-gid=${cgigroup} \
>       --with-mailhost=localhost.localdomain \
>       --with-urlhost=localhost.localdomain \
>       --without-permcheck




-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 13 01:30:39 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:30:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce file questions
In-Reply-To: <47B221FF.8090503@marmot.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008021216303904685cbbc85b@msapiro>

Steve Lindemann wrote:
>
>
>1) Is it safe to delete a file hung up in mailman/qfiles/bounces?
>
>I have one
>-rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 3751 Jan  2 07:02 
>1199282543.316215+a0fe738c4585516ea7c4b848e2a18442fc616c5c.bak
>that I think I can delete (contents are spam anyway)


Yes, it's safe to delete. It is the backup of the file that
BounceRunner was processing when something happened, and BounceRunner
never 'finished' processing the file.  There was a hole that allowed
this to occur on an 'unparseable' (almost always spam) message in
2.1.9, no whenever you get the "Ignoring unparseable message" in the
error log, the .bak file is left behind. This is fixed in 2.1.10n now
in beta.


>2) Is it safe to delete a file "bounce-events-*.pck" hung up in 
>mailman/data?
>
>I have one
>-rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman  5764 Jan 24 00:00 bounce-events-03252.pck
>that isn't going away.  I've watched the directory and other 
>bounce-events files have appeared and disappeared (eventually).


Apparently, 3252 was the pid of BounceRunner on Jan 2 (from the .bak
above and the Jan 2 log message. The Jan 24 log message seems to be a
retry of the 'recovered' .bak file implying BounceRunner was
restarted. If BounceRunner dies in some ways, it can leave the
bounce-events file behind. If it restarts with a new pid, the old file
is orphaned and can safely be deleted.

Actually any bounce-events file can be deleted. The worst that will
happen is you'll lose a few bounce events.


>Just out of curiosity I checked the logs and:
>
># grep 1199282543.316215 /var/log/mailman/*
>error.3:Jan 02 07:02:23 2008 (3252) Ignoring unparseable message: 
>1199282543.316215+a0fe738c4585516ea7c4b848e2a18442fc616c5c
>error.3:Jan 24 08:08:10 2008 (3281) Ignoring unparseable message: 
>1199282543.316215+a0fe738c4585516ea7c4b848e2a18442fc616c5c
>
>I'm assuming (and all that entails) that it is safe to simply delete 
>these files, but wanted to check with anyone smarter about mailman than 
>I'm likely to ever be first.  Thanks!


Yes, it's safe.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 13 02:44:58 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:44:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending MovableType notifications via Mailman
In-Reply-To: <f9467540802121028kcf01a36rf2dc145403b6259b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802121744580546ef876cdc@msapiro>

Eric Lee wrote:
>
>I just checked and unfortunately, both the variables are set as you
>suggested -- generic_nonmember_action  is 'hold' and forward_auto_discards
>is 'yes'.  But I'm not getting any error messages back.  Any other ideas?


Yes. My next idea is the mail isn't getting to Mailman at all. You said
that you can mail the list directly, and it works so that doesn't
leave too many possibilities.

Where do the MovableType notifications come from? Inside a local
network or outside? Whichever it is, can you send mail to the list
from the same source? And are you absolutely certain the MovableType
messages are being sent to the correct list address?

Debugging this further may require access to MTA logs on the Mailman
host and the MovableType host.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Feb 13 03:21:10 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:21:10 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Groupwise
In-Reply-To: <20080212170812.243E17AE@mail.tuunq.com>
References: <20080212170812.243E17AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <p06240803c3d8046471c2@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/12/08, Carl Zwanzig wrote:

>  Groupwise grew out of WordPerfect Office, which was a shared-file
>  type of system, but as I understand, Groupwise has been a real client/
>  server setup for years now. (Novell claims it'll run on windows, netware,
>  and unix/linux).  Since it does have an "Internet mail" connector, or
>  whatevern Novell calls it, it should be able to interface with Mailman
>  somehow.

Even if they have a gateway program that runs on Unix, doesn't mean 
that it's a properly full-featured MTA like sendmail, postfix, Exim, 
etc....  This just isn't a particularly good choice for this function.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From ericlee at labourstart.org  Wed Feb 13 08:04:17 2008
From: ericlee at labourstart.org (Eric Lee)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:04:17 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending MovableType notifications via Mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802121744580546ef876cdc@msapiro>
References: <f9467540802121028kcf01a36rf2dc145403b6259b@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200802121744580546ef876cdc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <f9467540802122304n4444bd8ej48bbebd1ad4760a7@mail.gmail.com>

It's worse than I'm describing it -- I've done everything I can to allow
anyone to mail to my test list, I've gone over every configuration
possibility and yet the only messages it will even consider for moderation
are those coming from the list owner, which is on the same server.  It's not
even looking at messages coming from, for example, my Gmail account.  Even
when I tell it to allow messages from non-members.

This looks like something terribly wrong with the setup of Mailman -- and
the setup was done by my web hosting provider as part of Plesk on a virtual
server.  They're not responding to requests for support.

Could it be that there's something in the setup of Mailman which I can
change?  It is possible that Mailman may be blocking receipt of any postings
from external sources (i.e., emails sent from different servers)?

Eric


On Feb 13, 2008 1:44 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Eric Lee wrote:
> >
> >I just checked and unfortunately, both the variables are set as you
> >suggested -- generic_nonmember_action  is 'hold' and
> forward_auto_discards
> >is 'yes'.  But I'm not getting any error messages back.  Any other ideas?
>
>
> Yes. My next idea is the mail isn't getting to Mailman at all. You said
> that you can mail the list directly, and it works so that doesn't
> leave too many possibilities.
>
> Where do the MovableType notifications come from? Inside a local
> network or outside? Whichever it is, can you send mail to the list
> from the same source? And are you absolutely certain the MovableType
> messages are being sent to the correct list address?
>
> Debugging this further may require access to MTA logs on the Mailman
> host and the MovableType host.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
Phone: +44 7 846658571 or +44 2083461953
Email: ericlee at labourstart.org
Skype: erictlee
Web: http://www.labourstart.org
Blog: http://www.ericlee.info

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Feb 13 08:11:02 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:11:02 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending MovableType notifications via Mailman
In-Reply-To: <f9467540802122304n4444bd8ej48bbebd1ad4760a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9467540802121028kcf01a36rf2dc145403b6259b@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200802121744580546ef876cdc@msapiro>
	<f9467540802122304n4444bd8ej48bbebd1ad4760a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c3d8482753b1@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/13/08, Eric Lee wrote:

>  This looks like something terribly wrong with the setup of Mailman -- and
>  the setup was done by my web hosting provider as part of Plesk on a virtual
>  server.  They're not responding to requests for support.

It sounds to me like you've got a disconnect there between your MTA 
and Mailman, and since they did this with Plesk, only your hosting 
provider can help you.

If they're not being responsive, your only choice may be to find a 
different hosting provider.

>  Could it be that there's something in the setup of Mailman which I can
>  change?  It is possible that Mailman may be blocking receipt of any postings
>  from external sources (i.e., emails sent from different servers)?

You'd have to look at the logs to be able to see anything, and you 
can't do that if all you've got is the web interface.  Again, your 
hosting provider needs to be willing and able to do that, otherwise 
they shouldn't be offering the service at all.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From Vladislav.Rames at asseco.cz  Wed Feb 13 10:37:03 2008
From: Vladislav.Rames at asseco.cz (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Rame=B9_Vladislav?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:37:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] smtp-failure: 'Addres family was not recognized or
	address length wasinvalid'
Message-ID: <3A00E171CBC2CC4B8FEDAA85D127CBF1EC790A@cbuw00.pvt.cz>

Hi,

I tried to run mailman 2.1.9 with postfix 2.0.16 on Alpha TRU64 UNIX 5.1A.
Unfortunately, when I tried to subscribe to my test conference, I got this errors to smtp-failure file:

...
Feb 12 16:57:08 2008 (250559) delivery to root[at]t2.pvt.cz failed with code -1: (5, 'Addres family was not recognized or address length was invalid.') Feb 12 16:57:08 2008 (250559) Low level smtp error: (5, 'Addres family was not recognized or address length was invalid.'), msgid: <mailman.292.1202831704.250529.mailman[at]t2.pvt.cz>
Feb 12 16:57:08 2008 (250559) delivery to root[at]t2.pvt.cz failed with code -1: (5, 'Addres family was not recognized or address length was invalid.') Feb 12 17:00:02 2008 (250559) Low level smtp error: (5, 'Addres family was not recognized or address length was invalid.'), msgid: <mailman.293.1202832001.250529.mailman[at]t2.pvt.cz>
...

In Postfix maillog subscriptions looks like "send":

...
t2.pvt.cz# tail mail.log
Feb 13 09:05:00 t2 postfix/pickup[256660]: 5411D4DE: uid=0 from=<root> Feb 13 09:05:00 t2 postfix/cleanup[256788]: 5411D4DE: message-id=<20080213080500.5411D4DE[at]t2.pvt.cz>
Feb 13 09:05:00 t2 postfix/qmgr[250778]: 5411D4DE: from=<root[at]t2.pvt.cz>, size=346, nrcpt=1 (queue active) Feb 13 09:05:00 t2 postfix/local[256800]: warning: dict_nis_init: NIS domain name not set - NIS lookups disabled Feb 13 09:05:01 t2 postfix/local[256800]: 5411D4DE: to=<mailman[at]t2.pvt.cz>, orig_to=<mailman>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent ("|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman") Feb 13 09:10:00 t2 postfix/pickup[256660]: B1DA54DE: uid=0 from=<root> Feb 13 09:10:00 t2 postfix/cleanup[256817]: B1DA54DE: message-id=<20080213081000.B1DA54DE[at]t2.pvt.cz>
Feb 13 09:10:00 t2 postfix/qmgr[250778]: B1DA54DE: from=<root[at]t2.pvt.cz>, size=346, nrcpt=1 (queue active) Feb 13 09:10:00 t2 postfix/local[256815]: warning: dict_nis_init: NIS domain name not set - NIS lookups disabled Feb 13 09:10:01 t2 postfix/local[256815]: B1DA54DE: to=<mailman[at]t2.pvt.cz>, orig_to=<mailman>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent ("|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman") ...

When I tried mailman with sendmail, result was the same (the same error messages in smtp-failure file). 

Sending and receiving e-mails to/from users on this server (t2.pvt.cz) works properly.

I tried to find in conferences error message "Addres family was not recognized or address length was invalid." with "mailman", but withouth usable result.

What I doing wrong, have you any tips, please?

Vladislav Rame?
ASSECO Czech Republic, a.s.




From richih.mailinglist at gmail.com  Wed Feb 13 13:00:21 2008
From: richih.mailinglist at gmail.com (Richard Hartmann)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:00:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RFC: X-Archive header fields
Message-ID: <2d460de70802130400j1fc79627qa1e1dce298cbca34@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone would think X-Archive-Thread and
X-Archive-Mail would make sense. They could point the user to the
permanent archive location of both the thread and the email they are
reading. This would be useful beyond mailing lists, for example ticket
systems could use this as well.

Has this been done and abandoned? Is this viable? Would _you_ want to
use it?

And yes, I am aware of the possible abuse for spam if this were widely
implemented. Whitelists and other mechanisms could help there, though.


Best regards,
Richard

P.S.: I am not fixed on those names, they just make sense, to me.

From fcd.listas at gmail.com  Wed Feb 13 14:04:32 2008
From: fcd.listas at gmail.com (Fabiano Caixeta Duarte)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:04:32 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Update member's fullname
Message-ID: <47B2EAE0.6080303@gmail.com>

Hi folks!

I realized that there are scripts for automating creation, deletion end 
listing of list's members.

How can I update (actually insert) member's fullname in batch mode?

I have a file which contains member's fullname and e-mail address. 
Members were added to mailman with any names associated.

Thanks in advance!

-- 
Fabiano Caixeta Duarte
Especialista em Redes de Computadores
Linux User #195299
Ribeir?o Preto - SP


From barry at list.org  Wed Feb 13 14:48:24 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:48:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RFC: X-Archive header fields
In-Reply-To: <2d460de70802130400j1fc79627qa1e1dce298cbca34@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2d460de70802130400j1fc79627qa1e1dce298cbca34@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7E20E34E-E220-46FB-BC7F-238404E323B9@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Feb 13, 2008, at 7:00 AM, Richard Hartmann wrote:

> I was wondering if anyone would think X-Archive-Thread and
> X-Archive-Mail would make sense. They could point the user to the
> permanent archive location of both the thread and the email they are
> reading. This would be useful beyond mailing lists, for example ticket
> systems could use this as well.
>
> Has this been done and abandoned? Is this viable? Would _you_ want to
> use it?
>
> And yes, I am aware of the possible abuse for spam if this were widely
> implemented. Whitelists and other mechanisms could help there, though.

Hi Richard,

Please see RFC 5064: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc5064.txt

We'll very likely support this in Mailman 3.0 and 2.2.  See also this  
discussion:

http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Stable+URLs

although the details are still in flux.  Further discussion of this  
header should probably occur on mailman-developers.

Cheers,
- -Barry

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From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 13 16:38:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:38:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending MovableType notifications via Mailman
In-Reply-To: <f9467540802122304n4444bd8ej48bbebd1ad4760a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802130738080812d775d694@msapiro>

Eric Lee wrote:
>
>It's worse than I'm describing it -- I've done everything I can to allow
>anyone to mail to my test list, I've gone over every configuration
>possibility and yet the only messages it will even consider for moderation
>are those coming from the list owner, which is on the same server.  It's not
>even looking at messages coming from, for example, my Gmail account.  Even
>when I tell it to allow messages from non-members.
>
>This looks like something terribly wrong with the setup of Mailman -- 


Brad has responded to the Plesk/provider issues, and I have nothing to
add to that.

I only want to say that yes, something is terribly wrong, but from your
description, the outside mail is not even reaching Mailman, and this
is most likely to be a problem involving network, DNS and MTAs rather
than Mailman itself.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 13 17:03:56 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:03:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] smtp-failure: 'Addres family was not recognized
 or	address length wasinvalid'
In-Reply-To: <3A00E171CBC2CC4B8FEDAA85D127CBF1EC790A@cbuw00.pvt.cz>
References: <3A00E171CBC2CC4B8FEDAA85D127CBF1EC790A@cbuw00.pvt.cz>
Message-ID: <47B314EC.1000000@msapiro.net>

Ramea Vladislav wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I tried to run mailman 2.1.9 with postfix 2.0.16 on Alpha TRU64 UNIX 5.1A.
> Unfortunately, when I tried to subscribe to my test conference, I got this errors to smtp-failure file:
> 
> ...
> Feb 12 16:57:08 2008 (250559) delivery to root[at]t2.pvt.cz failed with code -1: (5, 'Addres family was not recognized or address length was invalid.') Feb 12 16:57:08 2008 (250559) Low level smtp error: (5, 'Addres family was not recognized or address length was invalid.'), msgid: <mailman.292.1202831704.250529.mailman[at]t2.pvt.cz>
> Feb 12 16:57:08 2008 (250559) delivery to root[at]t2.pvt.cz failed with code -1: (5, 'Addres family was not recognized or address length was invalid.') Feb 12 17:00:02 2008 (250559) Low level smtp error: (5, 'Addres family was not recognized or address length was invalid.'), msgid: <mailman.293.1202832001.250529.mailman[at]t2.pvt.cz>
> ...


These errors are reported from the outgoing MTA to Mailman when Mailman 
tries to send a message (in this case to root[at]t2.pvt.cz).


> In Postfix maillog subscriptions looks like "send":
> 
> ...
> t2.pvt.cz# tail mail.log
> Feb 13 09:05:00 t2 postfix/pickup[256660]: 5411D4DE: uid=0 from=<root> Feb 13 09:05:00 t2 postfix/cleanup[256788]: 5411D4DE: message-id=<20080213080500.5411D4DE[at]t2.pvt.cz>
> Feb 13 09:05:00 t2 postfix/qmgr[250778]: 5411D4DE: from=<root[at]t2.pvt.cz>, size=346, nrcpt=1 (queue active) Feb 13 09:05:00 t2 postfix/local[256800]: warning: dict_nis_init: NIS domain name not set - NIS lookups disabled Feb 13 09:05:01 t2 postfix/local[256800]: 5411D4DE: to=<mailman[at]t2.pvt.cz>, orig_to=<mailman>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent ("|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman") Feb 13 09:10:00 t2 postfix/pickup[256660]: B1DA54DE: uid=0 from=<root> Feb 13 09:10:00 t2 postfix/cleanup[256817]: B1DA54DE: message-id=<20080213081000.B1DA54DE[at]t2.pvt.cz>
> Feb 13 09:10:00 t2 postfix/qmgr[250778]: B1DA54DE: from=<root[at]t2.pvt.cz>, size=346, nrcpt=1 (queue active) Feb 13 09:10:00 t2 postfix/local[256815]: warning: dict_nis_init: NIS domain name not set - NIS lookups disabled Feb 13 09:10:01 t2 postfix/local[256815]: B1DA54DE: to=<mailman[at]t2.pvt.cz>, orig_to=<mailman>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent ("|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman") ...


These log entries are the delivery of posts to Mailman and represent 
sucessfull deliveries despite the warnings.


> When I tried mailman with sendmail, result was the same (the same error messages in smtp-failure file). 


Which indicates that the outgoing MTA Mailman is talking to is neither 
sendmail nor Postfix.


> Sending and receiving e-mails to/from users on this server (t2.pvt.cz) works properly.
> 
> I tried to find in conferences error message "Addres family was not recognized or address length was invalid." with "mailman", but withouth usable result.

It is not a Mailman message. It comes from the MTA.

Have you redefined SMTPHOST and/or SMTPPORT in mm_cfg.py. If not, 
Mailman is trying to send via SMTP to 'localhost' port 25. What happens 
if you 'telnet localhost 25'? What MTA answers?

Also see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From myron at cs.moravian.edu  Wed Feb 13 17:36:14 2008
From: myron at cs.moravian.edu (Myron Kowalski)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:36:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bug in Mailman 2.1.4
Message-ID: <A95844D8-F91D-4100-B9DE-80F53E632271@cs.moravian.edu>

One of my users sent me this message that he got when he tried to  
approve a message to
his list. As far as I can tell, all my other lists, including his, are  
working well. Any help on
what I should be looking for?



Bug in Mailman version 2.1.4

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy
of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what
happened. Thanks!
Traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/users/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
    main()
  File "/users/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 166, in main
    if not mlist.NumRequestsPending():
  File "/users/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 147, in
  NumRequestsPending
    self.__opendb()
  File "/users/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 82, in __opendb
    self.__db = marshal.load(fp)
MemoryError



Python information:

Variable	Value
sys.version	2.3.4 (#1, Aug 2 2004, 10:16:43) [GCC 2.95.3 20010315
(release)]
sys.executable	/usr/local/bin/python
sys.prefix	/usr/local
sys.exec_prefix	/usr/local
sys.path	/usr/local
sys.platform	sunos5

Environment variables:

Variable    Value
HTTP_COOKIE
net-avengers 
+ 
admin 
= 
2802000000699b27b247732800000066376664306131653934353533313666613036633137393832326530376136386137346331643666
SERVER_SOFTWARE		Apache/2.0.53 (Unix) PHP/4.3.10
mod_perl/1.999.20 Perl/v5.8.5
SCRIPT_NAME	  /mailman/admindb
SERVER_SIGNATURE
Apache/2.0.53 (Unix) PHP/4.3.10 mod_perl/1.999.20 Perl/v5.8.5 Server
at www.cs.moravian.edu Port 80
REQUEST_METHOD	       GET
HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE	       300
SERVER_PROTOCOL	       HTTP/1.0
QUERY_STRING	
HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET    ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7
HTTP_USER_AGENT	       Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US;
rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20080128 Firefox/2.0.0.11
TZ	     US/Eastern
HTTP_REFERER
http://www.cs.moravian.edu/mailman/admin/net-avengers/members
SERVER_NAME	www.cs.moravian.edu
REMOTE_ADDR	209.60.99.177
HTTP_VIA	1.1 coventry.corbesero.com:3128 (squid/2.5.STABLE14)
PATH_TRANSLATED	    /users/cs/public_html/net-avengers
SERVER_PORT	    80
SERVER_ADDR	    204.186.194.17
DOCUMENT_ROOT	    /users/cs/public_html
PYTHONPATH	    /users/mailman
SCRIPT_FILENAME	    /users/mailman/cgi-bin/admindb
SERVER_ADMIN	    webmaster at cs.moravian.edu
HTTP_HOST	    www.cs.moravian.edu
HTTP_CONNECTION	    keep-alive
HTTP_CACHE_CONTROL  max-age=259200
REQUEST_URI	    /mailman/admindb/net-avengers
HTTP_ACCEPT
text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/ 
plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5
GATEWAY_INTERFACE	CGI/1.1
HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR	192.168.201.31
REMOTE_PORT		2740
HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE	en-us,en;q=0.5
HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING	gzip,deflate
PATH_INFO		/net-avengers
--myron
=================================
Myron Kowalski
MoCoSIN Network/Systems Administrator
Moravian College
myron at cs.moravian.edu




From richih.mailinglist at gmail.com  Wed Feb 13 17:37:49 2008
From: richih.mailinglist at gmail.com (Richard Hartmann)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:37:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RFC: X-Archive header fields
In-Reply-To: <7E20E34E-E220-46FB-BC7F-238404E323B9@list.org>
References: <2d460de70802130400j1fc79627qa1e1dce298cbca34@mail.gmail.com>
	<7E20E34E-E220-46FB-BC7F-238404E323B9@list.org>
Message-ID: <2d460de70802130837x35cf5d62w7152ca335387d5dd@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 13, 2008 2:48 PM, Barry Warsaw <barry at list.org> wrote:


> Please see RFC 5064: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc5064.txt
>
> We'll very likely support this in Mailman 3.0 and 2.2.  See also this
> discussion:
>
> http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Stable+URLs

I will file wishlist items against KMail and Alpine to make them aware.

Are the authors of the RFC subscribed to MM-dev or should I poke them
elsewhere? It reads good, but the support for single message and full thread
is missing or hack-ish to implement, depending on what route people would
go.


Richard

From barry at list.org  Wed Feb 13 17:50:58 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:50:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RFC: X-Archive header fields
In-Reply-To: <2d460de70802130837x35cf5d62w7152ca335387d5dd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2d460de70802130400j1fc79627qa1e1dce298cbca34@mail.gmail.com>
	<7E20E34E-E220-46FB-BC7F-238404E323B9@list.org>
	<2d460de70802130837x35cf5d62w7152ca335387d5dd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2F6C635B-EB04-4A8C-905A-AA9209D33A8E@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Feb 13, 2008, at 11:37 AM, Richard Hartmann wrote:

> On Feb 13, 2008 2:48 PM, Barry Warsaw <barry at list.org> wrote:
>
>
>> Please see RFC 5064: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc5064.txt
>>
>> We'll very likely support this in Mailman 3.0 and 2.2.  See also this
>> discussion:
>>
>> http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Stable+URLs
>
> I will file wishlist items against KMail and Alpine to make them  
> aware.
>
> Are the authors of the RFC subscribed to MM-dev or should I poke them
> elsewhere? It reads good, but the support for single message and  
> full thread
> is missing or hack-ish to implement, depending on what route people  
> would
> go.

AFAIK, the RFC authors are not on mm-dev.  I've been meaning to  
contact them too.  If you do, please invite them to contact us so that  
we can work with them on practical issues.

- -Barry

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From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 13 18:03:00 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:03:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bug in Mailman 2.1.4
In-Reply-To: <A95844D8-F91D-4100-B9DE-80F53E632271@cs.moravian.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802130903000328cc56a9a8@msapiro>

Myron Kowalski wrote:

>One of my users sent me this message that he got when he tried to  
>approve a message to
>his list. As far as I can tell, all my other lists, including his, are  
>working well. Any help on
>what I should be looking for?
>
>
>
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.4
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy
>of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what
>happened. Thanks!
>Traceback:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/users/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
>    main()
>  File "/users/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 166, in main
>    if not mlist.NumRequestsPending():
>  File "/users/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 147, in
>  NumRequestsPending
>    self.__opendb()
>  File "/users/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 82, in __opendb
>    self.__db = marshal.load(fp)
>MemoryError


The CGI process is being denied sufficient memory for Python to load
the date from lists/<listname>/request.db.

My best guess is this file is huge and there are many held messages for
this list.

Look in Mailman's data/ directory for files named heldmsg-<listname>-*.
If there are lots, delete some of the oldest ones with

  bin/delete data/heldmsg...

Use bin/delete instead of just rm so that they will also be removed
from request.db.

If you can't get request.db down to a manageable size in this way, you
may just have to rm it and start over, but this will lose all current
requests from the admindb interface.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From myron at cs.moravian.edu  Wed Feb 13 18:45:02 2008
From: myron at cs.moravian.edu (Myron Kowalski)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:45:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bug in Mailman 2.1.4
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802130903000328cc56a9a8@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200802130903000328cc56a9a8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <8F9F192F-B6A2-462A-B870-E0FF780D7A1C@cs.moravian.edu>

On Feb 13, 2008, at 12:03 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Myron Kowalski wrote:
>
>> One of my users sent me this message that he got when he tried to
>> approve a message to
>> his list. As far as I can tell, all my other lists, including his,  
>> are
>> working well. Any help on
>> what I should be looking for?
>>
>>
>>
>> Bug in Mailman version 2.1.4
>>
>> We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>>
>> If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a  
>> copy
>> of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of  
>> what
>> happened. Thanks!
>> Traceback:
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>> File "/users/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
>>   main()
>> File "/users/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 166, in main
>>   if not mlist.NumRequestsPending():
>> File "/users/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 147, in
>> NumRequestsPending
>>   self.__opendb()
>> File "/users/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 82, in __opendb
>>   self.__db = marshal.load(fp)
>> MemoryError
>
>
> The CGI process is being denied sufficient memory for Python to load
> the date from lists/<listname>/request.db.
>
> My best guess is this file is huge and there are many held messages  
> for
> this list.
>
> Look in Mailman's data/ directory for files named heldmsg-<listname>- 
> *.
> If there are lots, delete some of the oldest ones with
>
>  bin/delete data/heldmsg...
>
> Use bin/delete instead of just rm so that they will also be removed
> from request.db.
>
> If you can't get request.db down to a manageable size in this way, you
> may just have to rm it and start over, but this will lose all current
> requests from the admindb interface.
>

There was only one message
-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman  mailman     2295 Feb 12 17:39 heldmsg-net- 
avengers-3.pck

and the request.db was rather small.
-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman  mailman      119 Oct 10 12:54 request.db

I decided to check all the lists. There were about a dozen heldmsg  
files and all the lists request.db
are small in size. I did notice that 10 of the lists request.db file  
was not owned by mailman. I'll change the
owner back to mailman and get rid of all the heldmsg. Nobody else has  
reported any problems, so maybe
it'll go away.

> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>


From myron at cs.moravian.edu  Wed Feb 13 19:06:34 2008
From: myron at cs.moravian.edu (Myron Kowalski)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:06:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bug in Mailman 2.1.4
In-Reply-To: <8F9F192F-B6A2-462A-B870-E0FF780D7A1C@cs.moravian.edu>
References: <PC1760200802130903000328cc56a9a8@msapiro>
	<8F9F192F-B6A2-462A-B870-E0FF780D7A1C@cs.moravian.edu>
Message-ID: <256EBFFC-7135-4500-8C0E-0B5426C3C014@cs.moravian.edu>

On Feb 13, 2008, at 12:45 PM, Myron Kowalski wrote:

> On Feb 13, 2008, at 12:03 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Myron Kowalski wrote:
>>
>>> One of my users sent me this message that he got when he tried to
>>> approve a message to
>>> his list. As far as I can tell, all my other lists, including his,
>>> are
>>> working well. Any help on
>>> what I should be looking for?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bug in Mailman version 2.1.4
>>>
>>> We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>>>
>>> If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a
>>> copy
>>> of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of
>>> what
>>> happened. Thanks!
>>> Traceback:
>>>
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>> File "/users/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
>>>  main()
>>> File "/users/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 166, in main
>>>  if not mlist.NumRequestsPending():
>>> File "/users/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 147, in
>>> NumRequestsPending
>>>  self.__opendb()
>>> File "/users/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 82, in __opendb
>>>  self.__db = marshal.load(fp)
>>> MemoryError
>>
>>
>> The CGI process is being denied sufficient memory for Python to load
>> the date from lists/<listname>/request.db.
>>
>> My best guess is this file is huge and there are many held messages
>> for
>> this list.
>>
>> Look in Mailman's data/ directory for files named heldmsg-<listname>-
>> *.
>> If there are lots, delete some of the oldest ones with
>>
>> bin/delete data/heldmsg...
>>
>> Use bin/delete instead of just rm so that they will also be removed
>> from request.db.
>>
>> If you can't get request.db down to a manageable size in this way,  
>> you
>> may just have to rm it and start over, but this will lose all current
>> requests from the admindb interface.
>>
>
> There was only one message
> -rw-rw-r--   1 mailman  mailman     2295 Feb 12 17:39 heldmsg-net-
> avengers-3.pck
>
> and the request.db was rather small.
> -rw-rw-r--   1 mailman  mailman      119 Oct 10 12:54 request.db
>
> I decided to check all the lists. There were about a dozen heldmsg
> files and all the lists request.db
> are small in size. I did notice that 10 of the lists request.db file
> was not owned by mailman. I'll change the
> owner back to mailman and get rid of all the heldmsg. Nobody else has
> reported any problems, so maybe
> it'll go away.
>

I have no bin/delete. I'm guessing you meant bin/discard.


>> -- 
>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B.  
>> Dylan
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/myron%40cs.moravian.edu
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From myron at cs.moravian.edu  Wed Feb 13 19:16:38 2008
From: myron at cs.moravian.edu (Myron Kowalski)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:16:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bug in Mailman 2.1.4
In-Reply-To: <256EBFFC-7135-4500-8C0E-0B5426C3C014@cs.moravian.edu>
References: <PC1760200802130903000328cc56a9a8@msapiro>
	<8F9F192F-B6A2-462A-B870-E0FF780D7A1C@cs.moravian.edu>
	<256EBFFC-7135-4500-8C0E-0B5426C3C014@cs.moravian.edu>
Message-ID: <C1689D38-6575-473D-AF48-21185993F0A2@cs.moravian.edu>

On Feb 13, 2008, at 1:06 PM, Myron Kowalski wrote:

> On Feb 13, 2008, at 12:45 PM, Myron Kowalski wrote:
>
>> On Feb 13, 2008, at 12:03 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>> Myron Kowalski wrote:
>>>
>>>> One of my users sent me this message that he got when he tried to
>>>> approve a message to
>>>> his list. As far as I can tell, all my other lists, including his,
>>>> are
>>>> working well. Any help on
>>>> what I should be looking for?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bug in Mailman version 2.1.4
>>>>
>>>> We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>>>>
>>>> If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a
>>>> copy
>>>> of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of
>>>> what
>>>> happened. Thanks!
>>>> Traceback:
>>>>
>>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>> File "/users/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
>>>> main()
>>>> File "/users/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 166, in main
>>>> if not mlist.NumRequestsPending():
>>>> File "/users/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 147, in
>>>> NumRequestsPending
>>>> self.__opendb()
>>>> File "/users/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 82, in __opendb
>>>> self.__db = marshal.load(fp)
>>>> MemoryError
>>>
>>>
>>> The CGI process is being denied sufficient memory for Python to load
>>> the date from lists/<listname>/request.db.
>>>
>>> My best guess is this file is huge and there are many held messages
>>> for
>>> this list.
>>>
>>> Look in Mailman's data/ directory for files named heldmsg- 
>>> <listname>-
>>> *.
>>> If there are lots, delete some of the oldest ones with
>>>
>>> bin/delete data/heldmsg...
>>>
>>> Use bin/delete instead of just rm so that they will also be removed
>>> from request.db.
>>>
>>> If you can't get request.db down to a manageable size in this way,
>>> you
>>> may just have to rm it and start over, but this will lose all  
>>> current
>>> requests from the admindb interface.
>>>
>>
>> There was only one message
>> -rw-rw-r--   1 mailman  mailman     2295 Feb 12 17:39 heldmsg-net-
>> avengers-3.pck
>>
>> and the request.db was rather small.
>> -rw-rw-r--   1 mailman  mailman      119 Oct 10 12:54 request.db
>>
>> I decided to check all the lists. There were about a dozen heldmsg
>> files and all the lists request.db
>> are small in size. I did notice that 10 of the lists request.db file
>> was not owned by mailman. I'll change the
>> owner back to mailman and get rid of all the heldmsg. Nobody else has
>> reported any problems, so maybe
>> it'll go away.
>>
>
> I have no bin/delete. I'm guessing you meant bin/discard.
>

I got rid of all the heldmsg w/o any problems, until I got to the one  
in question.
Discarding that heldmsg returned this error.

mailman:~/data% ../bin/discard heldmsg-net-avengers-3.pck
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "../bin/discard", line 120, in ?
     main()
   File "../bin/discard", line 110, in main
     mlist.HandleRequest(id, mm_cfg.DISCARD, '', False, False, '')
   File "/users/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 180, in  
HandleRequest
     self.__opendb()
   File "/users/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 82, in __opendb
     self.__db = marshal.load(fp)
MemoryError

>
>>> -- 
>>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>>> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B.
>>> Dylan
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/myron%40cs.moravian.edu
>>
>> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/myron%40cs.moravian.edu
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From boxenberg at hotmail.com  Wed Feb 13 20:50:22 2008
From: boxenberg at hotmail.com (Dov Oxenberg)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:50:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configure mailman for hosted e-mail...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1202928155.4979.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.0.1202928155.4979.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <BLU120-W21D0D35D15B77DD9D7F284A3240@phx.gbl>

Hi,
Our new web site and e-mail are currently being hosted by Network Solutions.
In our office I have a machine running Debian Lenny (stable) which at the moment is exclusively a fax Server but I am considering installing the Mailman package if I am confident I can get it to work in my scenario.
Being our e-mail is being hosted by Network Solutions, how would I go about configuring this machine to act as a List Server associated with our Domain name?
In other words, this Debian box is running in our office with a DSL connection to the Internet.  Our mail is being hosted by Network Solutions. How can I make the Network Solutions mail Serve "aware" of my list Server?
Thanks!
Dov

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Wed Feb 13 21:06:15 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:06:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configure mailman for hosted e-mail...
In-Reply-To: <BLU120-W21D0D35D15B77DD9D7F284A3240@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.0.1202928155.4979.mailman-users@python.org>
	<BLU120-W21D0D35D15B77DD9D7F284A3240@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <47B34DB7.5020603@Media-Brokers.com>

On 2/13/2008, Dov Oxenberg (boxenberg at hotmail.com) wrote:
> In other words, this Debian box is running in our office with a DSL 
> connection to the Internet.  Our mail is being hosted by Network 
> Solutions. How can I make the Network Solutions mail Serve "aware" of 
> my list Server?

Set the hostname for the listserver in mm_cfg.py to something like 
'lists.example.com', and add an A record in your DNS to point this 
subdomain to your IP address?

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From her at adm.ku.dk  Thu Feb 14 13:15:03 2008
From: her at adm.ku.dk (Henrik Rasmussen)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:15:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No subscription is made despite confirmation
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080212080914031210eb5126@msapiro>
References: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BE1FE@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>
	<PC176020080212080914031210eb5126@msapiro>
Message-ID: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BE20F@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>>One of my list administrators have celled me regarding some users not being subscribed to a list. Mailman have sent the users in question a confirmation ticket, and the subscribe log shows that the users have been put in pending mode.
>> 
>>Jan 31 13:09:33 2008 (2223) listname: pending me at privacy.net <mailto:me at privacy.net>   me at privacy.net <mailto:me at privacy.net> 
>> 
>>When the users returned the mail, Mailman issued a New command
>> 
>>Jan 31 13:11:29 2008 (2223) listname: new "me at privacy.net <mailto:me at privacy.net> " <>, via email confirmation
>
>
>And this user is successfully subscribed. The only things left to do
>after the "new" log entry is written are
>
> - Send the welcome to the user if the list's send_welcome_msg is Yes.
>
> - Send the notice to the admin if the list's admin_notify_mchanges is
>   Yes.
>
>Were these messages received?

Both send_welcome_msg and admin_notify_mchanges has been set to No. The subscriber currently have vacation so whether she received a "Result of your commands" mail is unknown. I've tried subscribing to the list from my external mail account and (as the subscriber) received the "Result of your commands" reply. Though I am actually subscribed to the list.

>>but still the users wasn't subscribed (list_members listname still did not show the user as member of the list).
>
>
>I don't know why this would be the case. Does subscribe and confirm by
>email work for other lists?

Yes this works (for me anyway), I haven't consultet the user about this yet.

>For other users on this list?

For me, by subscribing an external address (a spamcop.net address) to the particular list works too.

>What if the user confirms by web?

In general, the users have no knowledge about the web-interface nor the use of it. Only the list administrators have.


>>A few days later one of the users retried subscribing, and the same happened. The log does not show any signs that the user have tried unsubscribing (deleted).
>> 
>>According to the error log at the particular time, Mailman seems to have failed subscribing the user.

>These errors have nothing to do with the problem.
>Jan 31 11:36:09 2008 (2223) SHUNTING: 1201775768.8376081+629ed6771846a9304e6eca2178f2047980aa8630
>
>This is from a shunted message at 11:36:09. The error that caused the
>shunting is the traceback with the same timestamp that precedes the
>above message in the log.
>
>
>>Jan 31 13:10:06 2008 (2223) Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xf8 in position 5: ordinal not in range(128)
>>Jan 31 13:10:06 2008 (2223) Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 237, in _dispose
>>    res.process()
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 110, in process
>>    stop = self.do_command(cmd, args)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 135, in do_command
>>    return self.do_command(cmd, args)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 137, in do_command
>>    return handler.process(self, args)
>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Commands/cmd_confirm.py", line 86, in process
>>    if line.lstrip() == match:
>>UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xf8 in position 5: ordinal not in range(128)
>
>
>And this traceback is probably followed by another 'shunting' entry for
>the message that caused it.

That's correct.

>
>These error log entries are from messages (most likely spam) with
>unencoded non-ascii characters in headers such as Subject: or From:.
>
>You can see these messages in the shunt queue and determine what they
>are.
>
>  bin/show_qfiles qfiles/shunt/*
>
>It is possible that the traceback at 13:10:06 is from this user's
>confirm attempt, but even if this is the case, the confirm was
>successfully retried by the user, because if it hadn't been, there
>would be no 'new' entry in the subscribe log.

The thunted message is the particular confirmation reply from the user. The reply contains HTML, however, as you point out, this wasn't a problem since a 'new' command was in fact issued.

Thanks for a good description. 
 
Best Regards Henrik Rasmussen
 

 
Henrik Rasmussen
Systems Administrator
 
University of Copenhagen
Corporate IT
Noerregade 10
P.O.B 2177
DK-1017 Copenhagen K
DENMARK
it.ku.dk
 

From her at adm.ku.dk  Thu Feb 14 13:42:45 2008
From: her at adm.ku.dk (Henrik Rasmussen)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:42:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No subscription is made despite confirmation
In-Reply-To: <87ve4t4v65.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BE1FE@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>
	<87ve4t4v65.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BE210@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: 

>Henrik Rasmussen writes:
>
> > UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xf8 in
> > position 5: ordinal not in range(128) 
>
>Your user is sending mail with raw 8-bit characters (in this case
>probably meaning "?") in the headers.  This is forbidden by RFC 2822.
>The universally accepted way to do this is by using MIME encoded words.

That's plausible. The mailheader of the confirmation reply contains "This is a MIME message", but the message seems to be multipart MIME, containing both

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

and 

Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Description: HTML

>The only reasonable solution is to get your users to stop doing that.
>This may require them to subscribe that address from a different MUA.

This would not be a practicable solution, since we have subscribers from around the world.

Henrik

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 14 18:32:17 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:32:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bug in Mailman 2.1.4
In-Reply-To: <256EBFFC-7135-4500-8C0E-0B5426C3C014@cs.moravian.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802140932170234326eae9b@msapiro>

Myron Kowalski wrote:
>
>I have no bin/delete. I'm guessing you meant bin/discard.


Yes. My Bad. I meant bin/discard.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 14 18:42:23 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:42:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bug in Mailman 2.1.4
In-Reply-To: <C1689D38-6575-473D-AF48-21185993F0A2@cs.moravian.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802140942230703326eb076@msapiro>

Myron Kowalski wrote:
>
>I got rid of all the heldmsg w/o any problems, until I got to the one  
>in question.
>Discarding that heldmsg returned this error.
>
>mailman:~/data% ../bin/discard heldmsg-net-avengers-3.pck
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "../bin/discard", line 120, in ?
>     main()
>   File "../bin/discard", line 110, in main
>     mlist.HandleRequest(id, mm_cfg.DISCARD, '', False, False, '')
>   File "/users/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 180, in  
>HandleRequest
>     self.__opendb()
>   File "/users/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 82, in __opendb
>     self.__db = marshal.load(fp)
>MemoryError


So, it seems that even though the lists/net-avengers-3/request.db is
not large, it is corrupt in some way that causes unmarshaling to throw
the MemoryError.

I would just rm the lists/avengers-3/request.db file (and the remaining
heldmsg-net-avengers-*.pck files if any). The requests.db file will be
recreated as needed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mario.silva at nmcourts.gov  Wed Feb 13 21:20:35 2008
From: mario.silva at nmcourts.gov (Mario Silva Borrego)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:20:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error compiling mailman 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802121543210875b03df300@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200802121543210875b03df300@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47B35113.3020206@nmcourts.gov>

Mark:

Thank you very much for your advices, finally I could compile it with 
this little modifications, the "--with-mail-gid" option does accept 
multiple values, so I just made some little modifications and here you 
have in case you also want to update your current installation:

# General variables

CONTENTDIR=/var/www
PROG=mailman

# Installation directories
MMDIR=/usr/lib/${PROG}
VARMMDIR=/var/lib/${PROG}
DOCDIR=/usr/share/doc/${PROG}
CONFIGDIR=/etc/${PROG}
DATADIR=${VARMMDIR}/data
LOCKDIR=/var/lock/${PROG}
LOGDIR=/var/log/${PROG}
PIDDIR=/var/run/${PROG}
QUEUEDIR=/var/spool/${PROG}
HTTPDCONFDIR=/etc/httpd/conf.d
HTTPDCONFFILE=${PROG}.conf
# Now, the user and group the CGIs will expect to be run under.  This should
# match the user and group the web server is configured to run as.  The 
scripts
# will error out if they are invoked by any other user.

cgiuser=apache
cgigroup=apache

# Now, the user and group the scripts will actually execute as.

mmuser=mailman
mmuserid=41
mmgroup=mailman
mmgroupid=41

# Directory/File modes & permissions

dirmode=2775
exemode=2755

# Now, the groups your mail spoolers run as.  Sendmail uses mail(12)
# and postfix used to use nobody, but now uses postfix

mailgroup="mail postfix mailman nobody daemon"

# Python binary
__python=/usr/bin/python

# The mail wrapper program
mail_wrapper=mailman

echo "Variable Values to use in configure line:"
echo $CONTENTDIR
echo $PROG
echo $MMDIR
echo $VARMMDIR
echo $DOCDIR
echo $CONFIGDIR
echo $DATADIR
echo $LOCKDIR
echo $LOGDIR
echo $PIDDIR
echo $QUEUEDIR
echo $HTTPDCONFDIR
echo $HTTPDCONFFILE
echo $cgiuser
echo $cgigroup
echo $mmuser
echo $mmuserid
echo $mmgroup
echo $mmgroupid
echo $dirmode
echo $exemode
echo $mailgroup
echo $__python
echo $mail_wrapper


/configure --prefix=${MMDIR} \
            --with-var-prefix=${VARMMDIR} \
            --with-config-dir=${CONFIGDIR} \
            --with-lock-dir=${LOCKDIR} \
            --with-log-dir=${LOGDIR} \
            --with-pid-dir=${PIDDIR} \
            --with-queue-dir=${QUEUEDIR} \
            --with-python=${__python} \
            '--with-mail-gid=${mailgroup}' \
            --with-cgi-id=${cgiuser} \
            --with-cgi-gid=${cgigroup} \
            --target=localhost.localdomain \
            --with-mailhost=localhost.localdomain \
            --with-urlhost=localhost.localdomain \
            --without-permcheck \



with this configuration my compiling just ran flawless and clean.


thank you very much for your help!

mario


-- 
Mario Silva Borrego
Systems Administrator
Supreme Court of New Mexico
Judicial Information Division
2905 Rodeo Park Dr. East, Bldg. #5
Santa Fe, NM 87505
Phone:  (505) 476-6959 / Mobil: (505) 660-1026
Fax:    (505) 476-6952

Website:  http://www.nmcourts.gov
mailto: mario.silva at nmcourts.gov

LEGAL DISCLAIMER:

The content of this data transmission is not considered as an offer, proposal, understanding, or agreement unless it is confirmed in a document signed by a legal representative of Supreme Court of the State of New Mexico or the Judicial Information Division. The content of this data transmission is confidential and it is intended to be delivered only to the addresses, therefore, it shall not be distributed and/or disclosed through any mean without the original sender's previous authorization. If you are not the addressee you are forbidden to use it, either totally or partially, for any purpose.

AVISO LEGAL:

El contenido de este mensaje de datos no se considera oferta, propuesta o acuerdo, sino hasta que sea confirmado en  documento por escrito que contenga la firma aut?grafa del apoderado legal de La Suprema Corte del Estado de Nuevo Mexico o de la Division de Informatica del Estado. El contenido de este mensaje de datos es confidencial y se entiende dirigido y para uso exclusivo del destinatario, por lo que no podr? distribuirse y/o difundirse por ning?n medio sin la previa autorizaci?n del emisor original. Si usted no es el destinatario, se le proh?be su utilizaci?n total o parcial para cualquier fin.


From AGabriel at jcschools.stier.org  Thu Feb 14 20:30:36 2008
From: AGabriel at jcschools.stier.org (Adam Gabriel)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:30:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Announce only mailing list
Message-ID: <47B4508B.FEF8.00D9.1@jcschools.stier.org>

I want to create a list that's only used for announcements, and only one or two member can post to it. I have made users moderated by default, and set the moderation to reject posts from mod'ed users. I also set it to discard all non-member posts. It seems to work how I want it to, but I just wanted to make sure of a few things...
Is this the best way to do it?
Is there something else I need to do to make this work the best way (best practices)?
Can someone spoofs a user's email addresses that IS allowed to send to the list (the non-mod'ed users)? Is there a way to stop that (besides changing moderation to all posts being held)?
Thanks in Advance!
-Adam

From cpz at tuunq.com  Thu Feb 14 20:36:51 2008
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:36:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Announce only mailing list
In-Reply-To: <47B4508B.FEF8.00D9.1@jcschools.stier.org> from Adam Gabriel at
	"Feb 14, 2008 02:30:36 pm"
Message-ID: <20080214193651.89EA07AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Adam Gabriel wrote:
> I want to create a list that's only used for announcements, and only one or two member can post to it. I have made users moderated by default, and set the moderation to reject posts from mod'ed users. I also set it to discard all non-member posts. It seems to work how I want it to, but I just wanted to make sure of a few things...

I think you'll find answers to all these at:

> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
or
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

z!

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Feb 14 21:18:21 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:18:21 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No subscription is made despite confirmation
In-Reply-To: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BE210@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>
References: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BE1FE@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>
	<87ve4t4v65.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BE210@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>
Message-ID: <87k5l770mq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Henrik Rasmussen writes:
 > Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: 

 > >Your user is sending mail with raw 8-bit characters (in this case
 > >probably meaning "?") in the headers.  This is forbidden by RFC 2822.
 > >The universally accepted way to do this is by using MIME encoded words.
 > 
 > That's plausible. The mailheader of the confirmation reply contains
 > "This is a MIME message", but the message seems to be multipart
 > MIME, containing both

That's weird.  That leaves open the possibility of a bug in Mailman
(ie, it's decoding the header then passing it to the email module).
Does the message contain the MIME-Version: 1.0 header?

Of course it's possible that the MUA is just inserting those headers
but it's a lie (the MUA thinks that's enough to let it get away with
just putting UTF-8 *anywhere*).  But note that 0xF8 is illegal in
UTF-8 (for several reasons), so most likely that is intended as an ISO
8-bit character.

Do you agree that the interpretation of 0xF8 as "?" is likely here?

 > >The only reasonable solution is to get your users to stop doing that.
 > >This may require them to subscribe that address from a different MUA.
 > 
 > This would not be a practicable solution, since we have subscribers
 > from around the world.

The alternative is far worse, though:  to ask "S?ren" to spell his
name as "Soren".  :-(


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 14 23:22:34 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:22:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Update member's fullname
In-Reply-To: <47B2EAE0.6080303@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008021414223405621fe346d4@msapiro>

Fabiano Caixeta Duarte wrote:
>
>I realized that there are scripts for automating creation, deletion end 
>listing of list's members.
>
>How can I update (actually insert) member's fullname in batch mode?
>
>I have a file which contains member's fullname and e-mail address.
>Members were added to mailman with any names associated.


As far as I know, there is no generally available script to do this.

You could create a withlist script (see 'bin/withlist --help')
something along the lines of the following which assumes the your file
contains lines like

Real Name <user at example.com>


-------------------------------------------------------------
from email.Utils import parseaddr
from Mailman.Errors import NotAMemberError

def real_name_from_file(mlist):

    if not mlist.Locked():
        mlist.Lock()

    fp = open('/path/to/name_address/file')

    line = fp.readline()
    while line:
        real_name, address = parseaddr(line)
        if real_name and address:
            try:
                mlist.setMemberName(address.lower(), real_name)
            except NotAMemberError:
                print 'Not a list member: %s' % address.lower()
        line = fp.readline()
    mlist.Save()
    mlist.Unlock()
-------------------------------------------------------------


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 15 03:37:01 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 18:37:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error compiling mailman 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <47B35113.3020206@nmcourts.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802141837010015aef7ae70@msapiro>

Mario Silva Borrego wrote:
>
>Thank you very much for your advices, finally I could compile it with 
>this little modifications, the "--with-mail-gid" option does accept 
>multiple values, so I just made some little modifications and here you 
>have in case you also want to update your current installation:
<snip>
>
>mailgroup="mail postfix mailman nobody daemon"
>
<snip>
>            '--with-mail-gid=${mailgroup}' \
<snip>


This still does not work. Yes it is true that configure and make run
clean, but the resultant 'mailman' mail wrapper will always give a
group mismatch error.

By quoting '--with-mail-gid=${mailgroup}', you force configure to
create literally the following line in src/Makefile

MAIL_GROUP=     ${mailgroup}

Now, your script has not exported mailgroup to the environment, so make
winds up compiling the mail wrapper with -DMAIL_GROUP="\"\"" so the
compiled wrapper looks for the parent group name to be the null string
which never matches.

If you do export mailgroup to the environment before running make, make
compiles the wrapper with -DMAIL_GROUP="\"mail postfix mailman nobody
daemon\"". This too does not work because the compiled wrapper looks
for the parent group name to be literally "mail postfix mailman nobody
daemon" which again will never match.

As I said in my prior reply, the correct solution is the leave the
--with-mail-gid=${mailgroup} unquoted, and to define

mailgroup=mail

or

mailgroup=postfix

or whatever single correct group is used by the MTA to invoke the mail
wrapper.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From her at adm.ku.dk  Fri Feb 15 11:24:33 2008
From: her at adm.ku.dk (Henrik Rasmussen)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:24:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No subscription is made despite confirmation
In-Reply-To: <87k5l770mq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BE1FE@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk><87ve4t4v65.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp><78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BE210@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>
	<87k5l770mq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BE219@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>

 
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Henrik Rasmussen writes:
> Of course it's possible that the MUA is just inserting those headers
> but it's a lie (the MUA thinks that's enough to let it get away with
> just putting UTF-8 *anywhere*).  But note that 0xF8 is illegal in
> UTF-8 (for several reasons), so most likely that is intended as an ISO
> 8-bit character.
> Do you agree that the interpretation of 0xF8 as "?" is likely here?

I'm not sure. The mail body contains a signature "N?rregaard" in the plain text section and "N=C3=B8rregaard" in the HTML section, but there is no "?" in the header (and thus nor the e-mail address of the subscriber).

But even so, the fact that Mailman issued a 'new' command, the user should have been put on the list (i'm just speculating here, I'm not that familiar with e-mail handeling and especially not Mailman nor Python).

>  > >The only reasonable solution is to get your users to stop 
> doing that.
>  > >This may require them to subscribe that address from a 
> different MUA.
>  > 
>  > This would not be a practicable solution, since we have subscribers
>  > from around the world.
> 
> The alternative is far worse, though:  to ask "S?ren" to spell his
> name as "Soren".  :-(

Haha yes, that would not be easy.

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 15 17:36:52 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 08:36:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No subscription is made despite confirmation
In-Reply-To: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BE219@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>
Message-ID: <PC17602008021508365207187382f162@msapiro>

Henrik Rasmussen wrote:
> 
>Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>> Henrik Rasmussen writes:
>> Of course it's possible that the MUA is just inserting those headers
>> but it's a lie (the MUA thinks that's enough to let it get away with
>> just putting UTF-8 *anywhere*).  But note that 0xF8 is illegal in
>> UTF-8 (for several reasons), so most likely that is intended as an ISO
>> 8-bit character.
>> Do you agree that the interpretation of 0xF8 as "?" is likely here?
>
>I'm not sure. The mail body contains a signature "N?rregaard" in the plain text section and "N=C3=B8rregaard" in the HTML section, but there is no "?" in the header (and thus nor the e-mail address of the subscriber).


If you still have the shunted queue entry .pck file, can you send it to
me off list? I would like to use it for test data.


>But even so, the fact that Mailman issued a 'new' command, the user should have been put on the list (i'm just speculating here, I'm not that familiar with e-mail handeling and especially not Mailman nor Python).


I looked more closely at the traceback, and I think we have a bug. What
happened here is the confirmation was received and processed and the
subscription was confirmed. Then there is a bit at the end of
cmd_confirm.py that 'eats up' the rest of the message and makes a list
of 'unprocessed' lines. It is in this loop that the exception occurs.
The loop goes through the lines skipping any that match the 'confirm
<token>' command just processed, since adding such a line to the
'unprocessed' lines would be confusing.

In this case, the processed confirm command was in the subject, and
because of the way we handle subjects, it was a Unicode string. Thus,
when we looped through the rest of the lines doing

    if line.lstrip() == match:

with match being a Unicode string, line.lstrip() was assumed ascii and
coerced to Unicode for the comparison. This threw the exception when
it got to the signature line with a non-ascii character, and even
though the subscription was confirmed, the exception caused the saving
of the updated list to be skipped and the new member was lost.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Feb 15 17:55:03 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 01:55:03 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Bug] 2x decode_header? [was: No subscription is
	made ...]
In-Reply-To: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BE219@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>
References: <78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BE1FE@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>
	<87ve4t4v65.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BE210@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>
	<87k5l770mq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<78E3AAA50C11F0419C4C3F41707B6530048BE219@taipan.ad.adm.ku.dk>
Message-ID: <87wsp65fdk.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Moving to -developers, reply-to set.  Please keep Henrik in the loop.

Seems to be the same as
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1186819&group_id=103&atid=100103

Henrik Rasmussen writes:

 > Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
 > > Henrik Rasmussen writes:
 > > Of course it's possible that the MUA is just inserting those headers
 > > but it's a lie (the MUA thinks that's enough to let it get away with
 > > just putting UTF-8 *anywhere*).  But note that 0xF8 is illegal in
 > > UTF-8 (for several reasons), so most likely that is intended as an ISO
 > > 8-bit character.
 > > Do you agree that the interpretation of 0xF8 as "?" is likely here?
 > 
 > I'm not sure. The mail body contains a signature "N?rregaard" in
 > the plain text section and "N=C3=B8rregaard" in the HTML section,
 > but there is no "?" in the header (and thus nor the e-mail address
 > of the subscriber).

This sounds like a bug in Mailman; if the headers do not contain any
characters outside of ASCII, then for some reason Mailman (or the
email module that it calls) is trying to decode the headers twice.

Can you provide a verbatim copy of the original message?  (If privacy
is a problem, send it to Mark Sapiro <mark at sapiro.net>.  Mark is the
likely person to actually do any fixing; I know how this stuff works
in principle but haven't yet actually hacked the core code.)  The
whole thing, with no changes at all, please (you never know what
matters in these things, even changing the .sig could make the bug go
away!)

 > But even so, the fact that Mailman issued a 'new' command, the user
 > should have been put on the list (i'm just speculating here, I'm
 > not that familiar with e-mail handeling and especially not Mailman
 > nor Python).

"Issue" a command and "complete" a command are two different things.
I've already archived the earlier posts so I can't evaluate your
conjecture offhand.



From zszalbot at gmail.com  Mon Feb 18 20:27:38 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:27:38 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailmain starting twice
Message-ID: <94136a2c0802181127t711c3aa5md9b69a948a647aac@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I am using mailman 2.1.9 on a FreeBSD 6.3-RELEASE. My rc.conf only has
one mailman entry defined:

$ cat /etc/rc.conf |grep -c mailman
1

$ cat /etc/rc.conf |grep mailman
mailman_enable="YES"

However, when I restart the system, there are 16 qrunners. When I do
/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl stop it shuts down 8 qrunners,
leaving the others 8 running. When I repeat the procedure, it asks me
that perhaps the qrunners aren't running (no pid) but greping ps ax
shows 8 qrunners active. In the end I had to kill the master qrunner
to make the other qrunners disappear. Then I started mailman manually
and it worked as expcted (showing 8 qrunners in process list).

Any advice how to debug this? Other than that Mailman has been running great!

Thank you!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

From zszalbot at gmail.com  Mon Feb 18 20:31:48 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:31:48 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailmain starting twice
In-Reply-To: <94136a2c0802181127t711c3aa5md9b69a948a647aac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <94136a2c0802181127t711c3aa5md9b69a948a647aac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <94136a2c0802181131t1e41a630ra9c5fa30bb59fa6b@mail.gmail.com>

I should have included mailman logs...

2008/2/18, Zbigniew Szalbot <zszalbot at gmail.com>:
> Hello,
>
> I am using mailman 2.1.9 on a FreeBSD 6.3-RELEASE. My rc.conf only has
> one mailman entry defined:
>
> $ cat /etc/rc.conf |grep -c mailman
> 1
>
> $ cat /etc/rc.conf |grep mailman
> mailman_enable="YES"
>
> However, when I restart the system, there are 16 qrunners. When I do
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl stop it shuts down 8 qrunners,
> leaving the others 8 running. When I repeat the procedure, it asks me
> that perhaps the qrunners aren't running (no pid) but greping ps ax
> shows 8 qrunners active. In the end I had to kill the master qrunner
> to make the other qrunners disappear. Then I started mailman manually
> and it worked as expcted (showing 8 qrunners in process list).
>
> Any advice how to debug this? Other than that Mailman has been running great!

Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (560) ArchRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (563) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (567) RetryRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (565) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (564) NewsRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (566) VirginRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (562) CommandRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (561) BounceRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:27:06 2008 (718) CommandRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:27:06 2008 (716) ArchRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:27:06 2008 (717) BounceRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:27:06 2008 (719) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:27:06 2008 (722) VirginRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:27:06 2008 (721) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:27:06 2008 (720) NewsRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:27:07 2008 (723) RetryRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 565, sig: None, sts: 1, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Feb 18 18:28:09 2008 (1242) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (716) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (716) ArchRunner qrunner exiting.
Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (717) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (717) BounceRunner qrunner exiting.
Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (719) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (719) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (718) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (718) CommandRunner qrunner exiting.
Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (720) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (720) NewsRunner qrunner exiting.
Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (721) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (721) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (722) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (722) VirginRunner qrunner exiting.
Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (723) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (723) RetryRunner qrunner exiting.
Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (711) Master watcher caught SIGTERM.  Exiting.
Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 716, sig: None, sts: 15, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1)
Feb 18 18:30:00 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 718, sig: None, sts: 15, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1)
Feb 18 18:30:00 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 717, sig: None, sts: 15, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1)
Feb 18 18:30:00 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 719, sig: None, sts: 15, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
Feb 18 18:30:00 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 720, sig: None, sts: 15, class: NewsRunner, slice: 1/1)
Feb 18 18:30:00 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 721, sig: None, sts: 15, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1)
Feb 18 18:30:00 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 722, sig: None, sts: 15, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1)
Feb 18 18:30:00 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 723, sig: None, sts: 15, class: RetryRunner, slice: 1/1)
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (560) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (560) ArchRunner qrunner exiting.
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (561) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (561) BounceRunner qrunner exiting.
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (562) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (562) CommandRunner qrunner exiting.
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (563) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (563) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (564) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (564) NewsRunner qrunner exiting.
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (566) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (566) VirginRunner qrunner exiting.
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (567) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (567) RetryRunner qrunner exiting.
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (1242) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (1242) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master watcher caught SIGTERM.  Exiting.
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 562, sig: None, sts: 15, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1)
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 566, sig: None, sts: 15, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1)
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 563, sig: None, sts: 15, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 561, sig: None, sts: 15, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1)
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 560, sig: None, sts: 15, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1)
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 564, sig: None, sts: 15, class: NewsRunner, slice: 1/1)
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 567, sig: None, sts: 15, class: RetryRunner, slice: 1/1)
Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 1242, sig: None, sts: 15, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1)
Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1710) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1707) ArchRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1712) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1713) VirginRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1709) CommandRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1711) NewsRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1714) RetryRunner qrunner started.
Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1708) BounceRunner qrunner started.

Thanks!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 18 21:24:39 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:24:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailmain starting twice
In-Reply-To: <94136a2c0802181127t711c3aa5md9b69a948a647aac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802181224390171fcaa07d2@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>I am using mailman 2.1.9 on a FreeBSD 6.3-RELEASE. My rc.conf only has
>one mailman entry defined:
>
>$ cat /etc/rc.conf |grep -c mailman
>1
>
>$ cat /etc/rc.conf |grep mailman
>mailman_enable="YES"
>
>However, when I restart the system, there are 16 qrunners. When I do
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl stop it shuts down 8 qrunners,
>leaving the others 8 running. When I repeat the procedure, it asks me
>that perhaps the qrunners aren't running (no pid) but greping ps ax
>shows 8 qrunners active. In the end I had to kill the master qrunner
>to make the other qrunners disappear. Then I started mailman manually
>and it worked as expcted (showing 8 qrunners in process list).


Mailman has been started twice. At least the second start included the
'-s' option to remove 'stale' locks as in

  bin/mailmanctl -s start

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp>
for some more information on this.

What happens is somehow your startup script is starting Mailman twice
or being run twice. Exactly why is a FreeBSD question that I can't
answer, but because of the '-s' option, the second start removes the
locks that are intended to prevent this and overwrites the previous
master's pid with its own. Thus, when you issue the mailmanctl stop,
you only stop the second start and the first is still running.

You could edit the Mailman start script and remove the '-s' option, and
maybe the error that will then result from the second start attempt
will help you find why it happens.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 18 21:34:13 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:34:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailmain starting twice
In-Reply-To: <94136a2c0802181131t1e41a630ra9c5fa30bb59fa6b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080218123413042164e76cf2@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (560) ArchRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (563) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (567) RetryRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (565) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (564) NewsRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (566) VirginRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (562) CommandRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (561) BounceRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:27:06 2008 (718) CommandRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:27:06 2008 (716) ArchRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:27:06 2008 (717) BounceRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:27:06 2008 (719) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:27:06 2008 (722) VirginRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:27:06 2008 (721) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:27:06 2008 (720) NewsRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:27:07 2008 (723) RetryRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 565, sig: None, sts: 1, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]


The above is from the first OutgoingRunner (pid 565) dying on its own
and being restarted by its master (pid 559).

>Feb 18 18:28:09 2008 (1242) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.

It restarts as pid 1242.

This next bunch is from mailmanctl stop which signals the second master
(pid 711) and all its children.


>Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (716) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (716) ArchRunner qrunner exiting.
>Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (717) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (717) BounceRunner qrunner exiting.
>Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (719) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (719) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
>Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (718) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (718) CommandRunner qrunner exiting.
>Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (720) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (720) NewsRunner qrunner exiting.
>Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (721) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (721) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
>Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (722) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (722) VirginRunner qrunner exiting.
>Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (723) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (723) RetryRunner qrunner exiting.
>Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (711) Master watcher caught SIGTERM.  Exiting.
>Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 716, sig: None, sts: 15, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1)
>Feb 18 18:30:00 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 718, sig: None, sts: 15, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1)
>Feb 18 18:30:00 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 717, sig: None, sts: 15, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1)
>Feb 18 18:30:00 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 719, sig: None, sts: 15, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
>Feb 18 18:30:00 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 720, sig: None, sts: 15, class: NewsRunner, slice: 1/1)
>Feb 18 18:30:00 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 721, sig: None, sts: 15, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1)
>Feb 18 18:30:00 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 722, sig: None, sts: 15, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1)
>Feb 18 18:30:00 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 723, sig: None, sts: 15, class: RetryRunner, slice: 1/1)


Then you SIGTERM'd the first master.


>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (560) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (560) ArchRunner qrunner exiting.
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (561) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (561) BounceRunner qrunner exiting.
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (562) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (562) CommandRunner qrunner exiting.
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (563) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (563) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (564) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (564) NewsRunner qrunner exiting.
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (566) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (566) VirginRunner qrunner exiting.
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (567) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (567) RetryRunner qrunner exiting.
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (1242) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (1242) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master watcher caught SIGTERM.  Exiting.
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 562, sig: None, sts: 15, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1)
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 566, sig: None, sts: 15, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1)
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 563, sig: None, sts: 15, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 561, sig: None, sts: 15, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1)
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 560, sig: None, sts: 15, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1)
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 564, sig: None, sts: 15, class: NewsRunner, slice: 1/1)
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 567, sig: None, sts: 15, class: RetryRunner, slice: 1/1)
>Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 1242, sig: None, sts: 15, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1)


And finally restarted.


>Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1710) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1707) ArchRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1712) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1713) VirginRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1709) CommandRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1711) NewsRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1714) RetryRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1708) BounceRunner qrunner started.



What I am curious about is what's in Mailman's error log relating to
the first OutgoingRunner (pid 565) dying on its own. I would like to
see the error and traceback from this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From zszalbot at gmail.com  Mon Feb 18 23:08:38 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 23:08:38 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailmain starting twice
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080218123413042164e76cf2@msapiro>
References: <94136a2c0802181131t1e41a630ra9c5fa30bb59fa6b@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC176020080218123413042164e76cf2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <94136a2c0802181408qd704abeu14c3fb0e14c1bc97@mail.gmail.com>

Hello again,

2008/2/18, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
> Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
> >
> >Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (560) ArchRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (563) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (567) RetryRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (565) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (564) NewsRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (566) VirginRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (562) CommandRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:26:53 2008 (561) BounceRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:27:06 2008 (718) CommandRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:27:06 2008 (716) ArchRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:27:06 2008 (717) BounceRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:27:06 2008 (719) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:27:06 2008 (722) VirginRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:27:06 2008 (721) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:27:06 2008 (720) NewsRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:27:07 2008 (723) RetryRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 565, sig: None, sts: 1, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>
>
> The above is from the first OutgoingRunner (pid 565) dying on its own
> and being restarted by its master (pid 559).
>
> >Feb 18 18:28:09 2008 (1242) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
>
> It restarts as pid 1242.
>
> This next bunch is from mailmanctl stop which signals the second master
> (pid 711) and all its children.
>
>
> >Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (716) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> >Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (716) ArchRunner qrunner exiting.
> >Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (717) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> >Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (717) BounceRunner qrunner exiting.
> >Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (719) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> >Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (719) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
> >Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (718) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> >Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (718) CommandRunner qrunner exiting.
> >Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (720) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> >Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (720) NewsRunner qrunner exiting.
> >Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (721) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> >Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (721) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
> >Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (722) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> >Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (722) VirginRunner qrunner exiting.
> >Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (723) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> >Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (723) RetryRunner qrunner exiting.
> >Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (711) Master watcher caught SIGTERM.  Exiting.
> >Feb 18 18:29:59 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 716, sig: None, sts: 15, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1)
> >Feb 18 18:30:00 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 718, sig: None, sts: 15, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1)
> >Feb 18 18:30:00 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 717, sig: None, sts: 15, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1)
> >Feb 18 18:30:00 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 719, sig: None, sts: 15, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
> >Feb 18 18:30:00 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 720, sig: None, sts: 15, class: NewsRunner, slice: 1/1)
> >Feb 18 18:30:00 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 721, sig: None, sts: 15, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1)
> >Feb 18 18:30:00 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 722, sig: None, sts: 15, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1)
> >Feb 18 18:30:00 2008 (711) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 723, sig: None, sts: 15, class: RetryRunner, slice: 1/1)
>
>
> Then you SIGTERM'd the first master.
>
>
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (560) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (560) ArchRunner qrunner exiting.
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (561) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (561) BounceRunner qrunner exiting.
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (562) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (562) CommandRunner qrunner exiting.
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (563) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (563) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (564) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (564) NewsRunner qrunner exiting.
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (566) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (566) VirginRunner qrunner exiting.
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (567) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (567) RetryRunner qrunner exiting.
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (1242) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (1242) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master watcher caught SIGTERM.  Exiting.
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 562, sig: None, sts: 15, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1)
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 566, sig: None, sts: 15, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1)
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 563, sig: None, sts: 15, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 561, sig: None, sts: 15, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1)
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 560, sig: None, sts: 15, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1)
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 564, sig: None, sts: 15, class: NewsRunner, slice: 1/1)
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 567, sig: None, sts: 15, class: RetryRunner, slice: 1/1)
> >Feb 18 18:31:27 2008 (559) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 1242, sig: None, sts: 15, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1)
>
>
> And finally restarted.
>
>
> >Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1710) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1707) ArchRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1712) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1713) VirginRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1709) CommandRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1711) NewsRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1714) RetryRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 18 18:31:43 2008 (1708) BounceRunner qrunner started.
>
>
>
> What I am curious about is what's in Mailman's error log relating to
> the first OutgoingRunner (pid 565) dying on its own. I would like to
> see the error and traceback from this.

I did edit mailman startup script as it contained the -s flag (I have
removed it now). Not sure if it was there by default or if I inserted
it at some point. Now for the error log:

Feb 18 19:23:45 2008 mailmanctl(188): No child with pid: 14396
Feb 18 19:23:45 2008 mailmanctl(188): [Errno 3] No such process
Feb 18 19:23:45 2008 mailmanctl(188): Stale pid file removed.
Feb 18 19:25:50 2008 mailmanctl(184): PID unreadable in:
/usr/local/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid
Feb 18 19:25:50 2008 mailmanctl(184): [Errno 2] No such file or
directory: '/usr/local/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid'
Feb 18 19:25:50 2008 mailmanctl(184): Is qrunner even running?
Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565): Traceback (most recent call last):
Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in ?
Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565):      main()
Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565):      qrunner.run()
Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565):      msg, msgdata =
self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 150, in
dequeue
Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565):      fp = open(filename)
Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565): IOError :  [Errno 2] No such file
or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/out/1203355686.956471+f4998fab7c49e7696e310da67e6e976129e32e0b.pck'
Feb 18 18:30:03 2008 mailmanctl(1633): No child with pid: 711
Feb 18 18:30:03 2008 mailmanctl(1633): [Errno 3] No such process
Feb 18 18:30:03 2008 mailmanctl(1633): Stale pid file removed.
Feb 18 18:30:11 2008 mailmanctl(1636): PID unreadable in:
/usr/local/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid
Feb 18 18:30:11 2008 mailmanctl(1636): [Errno 2] No such file or
directory: '/usr/local/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid'
Feb 18 18:30:11 2008 mailmanctl(1636): Is qrunner even running?
Feb 18 18:30:22 2008 mailmanctl(1648): PID unreadable in:
/usr/local/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid
Feb 18 18:30:22 2008 mailmanctl(1648): [Errno 2] No such file or
directory: '/usr/local/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid'
Feb 18 18:30:22 2008 mailmanctl(1648): Is qrunner even running?
Feb 18 18:31:02 2008 mailmanctl(1683): PID unreadable in:
/usr/local/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid
Feb 18 18:31:02 2008 mailmanctl(1683): [Errno 2] No such file or
directory: '/usr/local/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid'
Feb 18 18:31:02 2008 mailmanctl(1683): Is qrunner even running?

Thank you again!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 18 23:47:56 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:47:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailmain starting twice
In-Reply-To: <94136a2c0802181408qd704abeu14c3fb0e14c1bc97@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008021814475607502bf03186@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:

>2008/2/18, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
>>
>> What I am curious about is what's in Mailman's error log relating to
>> the first OutgoingRunner (pid 565) dying on its own. I would like to
>> see the error and traceback from this.
>
>I did edit mailman startup script as it contained the -s flag (I have
>removed it now). Not sure if it was there by default or if I inserted
>it at some point.


It was probably always there. Even the script we distribute
(misc/mailman.in) has it. Sometimes you want it and sometimes you
don't. After a system restart, you really do want it to handle the
situation where the system crashed with Mailman running. I only
suggested you remove it in an attempt to help debug this multiple
start issue.


>Now for the error log:
>
<snip>
>Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565):   File
>"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in ?
>Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565):      main()
>Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565):   File
>"/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
>Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565):      qrunner.run()
>Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565):   File
>"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
>Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
>Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565):   File
>"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
>Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565):      msg, msgdata =
>self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565):   File
>"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 150, in
>dequeue
>Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565):      fp = open(filename)
>Feb 18 18:28:08 2008 qrunner(565): IOError :  [Errno 2] No such file
>or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/out/1203355686.956471+f4998fab7c49e7696e310da67e6e976129e32e0b.pck'
<snip>


This is what I wanted to see. Thank you. This is exactly the error
referred to in the FAQ
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp>.
I just wanted to be sure it wasn't something else.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From quinnten at cheerful.com  Tue Feb 19 06:26:51 2008
From: quinnten at cheerful.com (quinnten at cheerful.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 23:26:51 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb question from a newby
Message-ID: <20080219052651.C00D21CE7C0@ws1-6.us4.outblaze.com>

This is a question from a complete novice so don't humor me with "there's no such 
thing as a dumb question". 


Beckground:
I worked in IT for many years back in the days of DOS 3.3, Lotus 1-2 -3 and Word Perfect.  I've even had the fun of being the sole Administrator of a Novell Netware network (no bosses) back in the dark days of computing.


Question:
Not being happy with the new fangled and pre-packaged Yahoo Groups, I'd like to manage my own mailing list. I like to do it myself. Once upon a time I stumbled across a web-based interface for creating a Mailman mailing list.  I even set up a prototype kinda list as a Newsletter (with nobody able to post except me/the owner).


Then other passions consumed me. I had a problem with alcohol that I'm proud to say I have under control. But for the life of me, I cannot remember where on "World Wide" Web  I did this. 


Any help given would be appreciated. In the absence of such help, can anyone refer to a a *GOOD* place to start as far as getting started? This newsletter is very important.  Although this list is exlusively for Mailman... are there any other suggestions? Or is Mailman a good place to start for someone who is a little bit familiar with batch files, scripts, CPL's for the AS/400 and such?


ThanX,
Q


-- 
Want an e-mail address like mine?
Get a free e-mail account today at www.mail.com!


From peleg at freeall.org  Tue Feb 19 12:33:53 2008
From: peleg at freeall.org (Peleg Michaeli)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:33:53 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb question from a newby
In-Reply-To: <20080219052651.C00D21CE7C0@ws1-6.us4.outblaze.com>
References: <20080219052651.C00D21CE7C0@ws1-6.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <1203420833.5999.73.camel@dell.linuxdev.us.dell.com>

Why Mailman?

I think that there are better and much simpler web engines for
*Newsletters*.

Mailman can do more than that, hence it is much more complicated to
use/install/configure (my opinion).

Peleg.

On Mon, 2008-02-18 at 23:26 -0600, quinnten at cheerful.com wrote:
> This is a question from a complete novice so don't humor me with "there's no such 
> thing as a dumb question". 
> 
> 
> Beckground:
> I worked in IT for many years back in the days of DOS 3.3, Lotus 1-2 -3 and Word Perfect.  I've even had the fun of being the sole Administrator of a Novell Netware network (no bosses) back in the dark days of computing.
> 
> 
> Question:
> Not being happy with the new fangled and pre-packaged Yahoo Groups, I'd like to manage my own mailing list. I like to do it myself. Once upon a time I stumbled across a web-based interface for creating a Mailman mailing list.  I even set up a prototype kinda list as a Newsletter (with nobody able to post except me/the owner).
> 
> 
> Then other passions consumed me. I had a problem with alcohol that I'm proud to say I have under control. But for the life of me, I cannot remember where on "World Wide" Web  I did this. 
> 
> 
> Any help given would be appreciated. In the absence of such help, can anyone refer to a a *GOOD* place to start as far as getting started? This newsletter is very important.  Although this list is exlusively for Mailman... are there any other suggestions? Or is Mailman a good place to start for someone who is a little bit familiar with batch files, scripts, CPL's for the AS/400 and such?
> 
> 
> ThanX,
> Q
> 
> 


From agabriel at jcschools.stier.org  Tue Feb 19 13:33:15 2008
From: agabriel at jcschools.stier.org (Adam Gabriel)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 07:33:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailmain starting twice
In-Reply-To: <94136a2c0802181127t711c3aa5md9b69a948a647aac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <94136a2c0802181127t711c3aa5md9b69a948a647aac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47BA865C.FEEC.00D9.1@jcschools.stier.org>

Just setting this variable isn't going to start mailman... you need to find the script thats actually executing the binary (and checking this variable). maybe you should grep your entire /etc/ for mailman_enable to find it. 

-Adam

>>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at  2:27 PM, in message <94136a2c0802181127t711c3aa5md9b69a948a647aac at mail.gmail.com>, "Zbigniew Szalbot" <zszalbot at gmail.com> wrote:

Hello,

I am using mailman 2.1.9 on a FreeBSD 6.3-RELEASE. My rc.conf only has
one mailman entry defined:

$ cat /etc/rc.conf |grep -c mailman
1

$ cat /etc/rc.conf |grep mailman
mailman_enable="YES"

... 


From bruceclark at icon.co.za  Tue Feb 19 14:06:21 2008
From: bruceclark at icon.co.za (Bruce Clark)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:06:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footer Question
Message-ID: <C3E0A0ED.A03F%bruceclark@icon.co.za>

Hi All,

Apologies if this is a bit simple; I have looked through the FAQ...

I have a bit of footer text which I put in msg_footer (digest and non
digest).

Some people can see it, but some people cannot. Those that cannot see it,
get a small file as an attachment (ATT).

Am I doing something wrong, or would this be specific  to a mail client?

Thanks,

Bruce.



From b19141 at britaine.cis.anl.gov  Tue Feb 19 15:25:51 2008
From: b19141 at britaine.cis.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:25:51 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footer Question
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Bruce Clark <bruceclark@icon.co.za>'
	dated: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:06:21 +0200
Message-ID: <200802191425.m1JEPpRC013573@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

>
>Hi All,
>
>Apologies if this is a bit simple; I have looked through the FAQ...
>
>I have a bit of footer text which I put in msg_footer (digest and non
>digest).
>
>Some people can see it, but some people cannot. Those that cannot see it,
>get a small file as an attachment (ATT).
>
>Am I doing something wrong, or would this be specific  to a mail client?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bruce.

Maybe this FAQ:

     http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From cpz at tuunq.com  Tue Feb 19 15:54:25 2008
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 06:54:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailmain starting twice
In-Reply-To: <47BA865C.FEEC.00D9.1@jcschools.stier.org> from Adam Gabriel at
	"Feb 19, 2008 07:33:15 am"
Message-ID: <20080219145426.0B2047AF@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Adam Gabriel wrote:
> maybe you should grep your entire /etc/ for mailman_enable to 
> find it. 

Not exactly: grep -i mailman /etc/rc*  (don't look for the _enable var)

FWIW, even though I really the bsd ports system, I still install mailman
from source.

z!

From Brandon at WebsterRidge.com  Tue Feb 19 15:57:25 2008
From: Brandon at WebsterRidge.com (Brandon Sussman)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 09:57:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb question from a newby
In-Reply-To: <1203420833.5999.73.camel@dell.linuxdev.us.dell.com>
References: <20080219052651.C00D21CE7C0@ws1-6.us4.outblaze.com>
	<1203420833.5999.73.camel@dell.linuxdev.us.dell.com>
Message-ID: <47BAEE55.2040606@WebsterRidge.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Peleg Michaeli wrote:
| Why Mailman?
|
| I think that there are better and much simpler web engines for
| *Newsletters*.
|
| Mailman can do more than that, hence it is much more complicated to
| use/install/configure (my opinion).
|

Yes, there are better tools.  If all you want is one 'Newsletter' list,
they will serve you better, IMO.

There is a good FAQ on making a Mailman list do what you want.  It is
not hard and requires no hacking at all.  Just proper setting of
parameters available from the web interface(s).

You might consider finding a host that already supports lists, once you
decide on Mailman or an alternative.

Unless you really need the excitement of the technical administration,
sticking with the moderation/human issues may be the best solution.

I do this for folks.

Others that post here do as well.
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From zszalbot at gmail.com  Tue Feb 19 16:29:16 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 16:29:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailmain starting twice
In-Reply-To: <20080219145426.0B2047AF@mail.tuunq.com>
References: <47BA865C.FEEC.00D9.1@jcschools.stier.org>
	<20080219145426.0B2047AF@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <94136a2c0802190729h48334f0ek39d14a153dd6830b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

2008/2/19, Carl Zwanzig <cpz at tuunq.com>:
> In a flurry of recycled electrons, Adam Gabriel wrote:
> > maybe you should grep your entire /etc/ for mailman_enable to
> > find it.
>
> Not exactly: grep -i mailman /etc/rc*  (don't look for the _enable var)
>
> FWIW, even though I really the bsd ports system, I still install mailman
> from source.

Thank you! Carl this did it for me.
I forgot I put:
/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start &
in /etc/rc.local

I now remember that at some point Mailman did not want to start
automatically and rather than research the logs I put the above in
rc.local... shame on me but thank you Carl!

I restart this machine so seldom that I simply forgot all about it. Thanks!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

From bernholdtde at ornl.gov  Tue Feb 19 16:12:46 2008
From: bernholdtde at ornl.gov (bernholdtde at ornl.gov)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:12:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regular expressions in list config files?
Message-ID: <20080219151246.738D5C9B82@trunk.csm.ornl.gov>

Our corporate mail gateway adds a header to flag things it believes
are spam.  I'd like to be able to take advantage of this in my Mailman
lists.  I'm having some problems setting the header_filter_rules
properly.

If I use a simple regex, like 
			 '^x-spam-flag: *yes'
it seems to show up properly in the configuration.  But if I use a
more precise regex that accounts for all forms of whitespace with the
"\s" sequence, like this
		     '^\s*x-spam-flag:\s*yes\s*$'
then what appears in the config file is 
		   '^\\s*x-spam-flag:\\s*yes\\s*$'
in other words the backslashes have been quoted and are now literals.

I have tried this through the web U/I and using config_list and I get
the same result.  It seems pretty clear that both interfaces are
sanitizing inputs by quoting things that could cause problems, but I
haven't dug deep enough to find where that's happening. (I don't
really want to have to customize Mailman for something like this.)

I was surprised that I couldn't find any other mention of these kinds
of problems, and that the only examples people were using to
illustrate the use of regexes in Mailman config files didn't involves
special sequences like "\s".  Is anyone else using more sophisticed
REs successfully?  Is there some trick or Python arcana that I'm
missing (I know barely enough Python to get _into_ a paper bag)?

I haven't verified, but I assume the same treatment is applied to any
config field that can take a regex.

Thanks in advance for any help.
--
David E. Bernholdt                   |   Email: bernholdtde at ornl.gov 
Oak Ridge National Laboratory        |   Phone: +1 (865) 574 3147    
http://www.csm.ornl.gov/~bernhold/   |   Fax:   +1 (865) 576 5491

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 19 17:35:12 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:35:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regular expressions in list config files?
In-Reply-To: <20080219151246.738D5C9B82@trunk.csm.ornl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802190835120218ea7701a6@msapiro>

bernholdtde at ornl.gov wrote:
>
>If I use a simple regex, like 
>			 '^x-spam-flag: *yes'
>it seems to show up properly in the configuration.  But if I use a
>more precise regex that accounts for all forms of whitespace with the
>"\s" sequence, like this
>		     '^\s*x-spam-flag:\s*yes\s*$'
>then what appears in the config file is 
>		   '^\\s*x-spam-flag:\\s*yes\\s*$'
>in other words the backslashes have been quoted and are now literals.


Are you saying you see this with bin/dumpdb of the config.pck. If so,
that's just the way python is showing the representation of the
string. It is not the actual value of the string. If you doubt that,
try 'strings' instead of 'bin/dumpdb'.

Also note the initial \s* in '^\s*x-spam-flag:\s*yes\s*$' really does
nothing since if 'x-spam-flag:' is preceded by whitespace, it isn't a
header. I.e., none of the headers presented to header_filter_rules
regexps have leading whitespace.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From MelindaSavoy at texashealth.org  Tue Feb 19 18:56:25 2008
From: MelindaSavoy at texashealth.org (Savoy, Melinda)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:56:25 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need ability to allow emails with specific subject
	line
Message-ID: <1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F4820280604C@phdex03.txhealth.org>

I am new to the administrative functions of CPANEL and I've tried reading the Mailman online manual at the Python website but I cannot find an answer to my question. 

I have setup several email lists whereby only specific email addresses are accepted to go through to those defined in the email list.  I would like to create the ability whereby if an email has specific text in the SUBJECT then, like the accepted email addresses, I would like these emails to be accepted as well and go through to those defined in the email list. 

I tried using the SPAM filter where in the regex textbox I entered:  Subject: Here is my text 
but this did not work. 

Any direction or suggestion on how to best accomplish this would be greatly appreciated. 

Regards.


Melinda Savoy
Sr. Programmer Analyst
Financial Applications - Enterprise Systems



The information contained in this message and any attachments is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from copying, distributing, or using the information.  Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete the original message from your system.

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 19 19:33:40 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:33:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need ability to allow emails with specific
	subjectline
In-Reply-To: <1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F4820280604C@phdex03.txhealth.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020080219103340064073b340c8@msapiro>

Savoy, Melinda wrote:
>
>I have setup several email lists whereby only specific email addresses are accepted to go through to those defined in the email list.  I would like to create the ability whereby if an email has specific text in the SUBJECT then, like the accepted email addresses, I would like these emails to be accepted as well and go through to those defined in the email list. 
>
>I tried using the SPAM filter where in the regex textbox I entered:  Subject: Here is my text 
>but this did not work. 


Mailman does not have the ability to unconditionally accept mail with a
specific Subject:. header_filter_rules doesn't work for this because
the Accept action just means "pass the Spam filters"; it doesn't mean
unconditionally accept the message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From MelindaSavoy at texashealth.org  Tue Feb 19 19:46:42 2008
From: MelindaSavoy at texashealth.org (Savoy, Melinda)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 12:46:42 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need ability to allow emails with specific
	subject line
In-Reply-To: <DD45CE4F-AFE5-4D5B-BCDC-F98924F3853B@raoset.com>
References: <1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F4820280604C@phdex03.txhealth.org>
	<DD45CE4F-AFE5-4D5B-BCDC-F98924F3853B@raoset.com>
Message-ID: <1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F4820280604F@phdex03.txhealth.org>

Jason,

That is exactly what I would like to have happen.

We are a homeowners association and I have several forms that are
submitted to our email lists and each form has a specific subject line
that when released by the administrator (me)  because they are not in
the accepted email addresses listing of the list goes to each of the
members of that email list and because that email could be submitted
from anyone who completes the form I just was looking for a way to not
have to release "accept" the email manually and let it pass through to
that email list.

Hope that makes sense.

Is there a way to do what you're suggesting?  If so, how?

Thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Pruim [mailto:japruim at raoset.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 12:39 PM
To: Savoy, Melinda
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Need ability to allow emails with specific
subject line


On Feb 19, 2008, at 12:56 PM, Savoy, Melinda wrote:

> I am new to the administrative functions of CPANEL and I've tried 
> reading the Mailman online manual at the Python website but I cannot 
> find an answer to my question.
>
> I have setup several email lists whereby only specific email addresses

> are accepted to go through to those defined in the email list.  I 
> would like to create the ability whereby if an email has specific text

> in the SUBJECT then, like the accepted email addresses, I would like 
> these emails to be accepted as well and go through to those defined in

> the email list.
>
> I tried using the SPAM filter where in the regex textbox I entered:   
> Subject: Here is my text
> but this did not work.
>
> Any direction or suggestion on how to best accomplish this would be 
> greatly appreciated.


Hi Melinda,

What is the problem you're really trying to solve? Would it not be  
possible to add the e-mail addresses that would have to include a  
certain subject to the list and don't subscribe them just allow them  
to post? Just a thought :)


--

Jason Pruim
Raoset Inc.
Technology Manager
MQC Specialist
3251 132nd ave
Holland, MI, 49424
www.raoset.com
japruim at raoset.com






The information contained in this message and any attachments is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from copying, distributing, or using the information.  Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete the original message from your system.

From quinnten at cheerful.com  Tue Feb 19 19:51:27 2008
From: quinnten at cheerful.com (quinnten at cheerful.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 12:51:27 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb question from a newby - Re-Phrased
Message-ID: <20080219185127.BFC9D16427A@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com>

I appreciate y'all's responses. 

RESPONSE:
"....Unless you really need the excitement of the technical administration, sticking with the moderation/human issues may be the best solution....."


ME:
I DO WANT THE EXCITEMENT AND THE FINER CONTROL OF TECHNICAL ADMINISTRATION. 
There is a good FAQ on making a Mailman list do what you want.  It is
not hard and requires no hacking at all.  Just proper setting of
parameters available from the web interface(s).



RESPONSE:
"....There is a good FAQ on making a Mailman list do what you want.  It is
not hard and requires no hacking at all.  Just proper setting of
parameters available from the web interface(s)...."



ME:
<<<<NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT... WHERE IS/ARE THE WEB-INTERFACE(S)>>>  

2ND QUESTION: Can Mailman be ran on with a simple POPMAIL account..... <<<<LIGHTBULB>>>>... oops.. sorry guys/gals.. I just remembered... the last time I did this I had a domain name and my web hoster provided the Mailman Interface.


In leui of a hosting service ...... are there any other pretty good interfaces BESIDES Yahoo Groups?
Better yet, I'll search for one myself... unless anyone wants to comment.


Again, I sincerely appreciate all your help. Sometimes you just need a sounding board.


THANX,
Q


-- 
Want an e-mail address like mine?
Get a free e-mail account today at www.mail.com!


From japruim at raoset.com  Tue Feb 19 19:39:00 2008
From: japruim at raoset.com (Jason Pruim)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 13:39:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need ability to allow emails with specific
	subject line
In-Reply-To: <1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F4820280604C@phdex03.txhealth.org>
References: <1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F4820280604C@phdex03.txhealth.org>
Message-ID: <DD45CE4F-AFE5-4D5B-BCDC-F98924F3853B@raoset.com>


On Feb 19, 2008, at 12:56 PM, Savoy, Melinda wrote:

> I am new to the administrative functions of CPANEL and I've tried  
> reading the Mailman online manual at the Python website but I cannot  
> find an answer to my question.
>
> I have setup several email lists whereby only specific email  
> addresses are accepted to go through to those defined in the email  
> list.  I would like to create the ability whereby if an email has  
> specific text in the SUBJECT then, like the accepted email  
> addresses, I would like these emails to be accepted as well and go  
> through to those defined in the email list.
>
> I tried using the SPAM filter where in the regex textbox I entered:   
> Subject: Here is my text
> but this did not work.
>
> Any direction or suggestion on how to best accomplish this would be  
> greatly appreciated.


Hi Melinda,

What is the problem you're really trying to solve? Would it not be  
possible to add the e-mail addresses that would have to include a  
certain subject to the list and don't subscribe them just allow them  
to post? Just a thought :)


--

Jason Pruim
Raoset Inc.
Technology Manager
MQC Specialist
3251 132nd ave
Holland, MI, 49424
www.raoset.com
japruim at raoset.com



From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 19 20:25:35 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:25:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need ability to allow emails with
	specificsubject line
In-Reply-To: <1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F4820280604F@phdex03.txhealth.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008021911253505002e243077@msapiro>

Savoy, Melinda wrote:
>
>We are a homeowners association and I have several forms that are
>submitted to our email lists and each form has a specific subject line
>that when released by the administrator (me)  because they are not in
>the accepted email addresses listing of the list goes to each of the
>members of that email list and because that email could be submitted
>from anyone who completes the form I just was looking for a way to not
>have to release "accept" the email manually and let it pass through to
>that email list.


I think what Jason was suggesting is to put the email addresses of the
potential senders of the messages in accept_these_nonmembers, but I
think you're saying you don't know these addresses in advance, so that
won't work.

If your web form actually generates the email to the list, you can
generate it with an

Approved: <password>

header, where <password> is the list admin or list moderator password
(moderator would be safer in case it gets inadvertently exposed via
your web application).

This 'pre-approves' the mail and bypasses the membership tests. The
header is removed from the mail to the list members so the password
isn't exposed that way.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From MelindaSavoy at texashealth.org  Tue Feb 19 20:40:00 2008
From: MelindaSavoy at texashealth.org (Savoy, Melinda)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 13:40:00 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need ability to allow emails with
	specificsubject line
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008021911253505002e243077@msapiro>
References: <1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F4820280604F@phdex03.txhealth.org>
	<PC17602008021911253505002e243077@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F48202806050@phdex03.txhealth.org>

You are correct to say that I do not know the email addresses that could
possibly use the form.  

Thanks anyway.   

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:26 PM
To: Savoy, Melinda; Jason Pruim
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Need ability to allow emails with
specificsubject line

Savoy, Melinda wrote:
>
>We are a homeowners association and I have several forms that are 
>submitted to our email lists and each form has a specific subject line 
>that when released by the administrator (me)  because they are not in 
>the accepted email addresses listing of the list goes to each of the 
>members of that email list and because that email could be submitted 
>from anyone who completes the form I just was looking for a way to not 
>have to release "accept" the email manually and let it pass through to 
>that email list.


I think what Jason was suggesting is to put the email addresses of the
potential senders of the messages in accept_these_nonmembers, but I
think you're saying you don't know these addresses in advance, so that
won't work.

If your web form actually generates the email to the list, you can
generate it with an

Approved: <password>

header, where <password> is the list admin or list moderator password
(moderator would be safer in case it gets inadvertently exposed via your
web application).

This 'pre-approves' the mail and bypasses the membership tests. The
header is removed from the mail to the list members so the password
isn't exposed that way.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan





The information contained in this message and any attachments is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from copying, distributing, or using the information.  Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete the original message from your system.

From japruim at raoset.com  Tue Feb 19 20:46:14 2008
From: japruim at raoset.com (Jason Pruim)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 14:46:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need ability to allow emails with
	specificsubject line
In-Reply-To: <1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F48202806050@phdex03.txhealth.org>
References: <1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F4820280604F@phdex03.txhealth.org>
	<PC17602008021911253505002e243077@msapiro>
	<1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F48202806050@phdex03.txhealth.org>
Message-ID: <6A999CA9-6BDC-4427-9832-AD8AC891A872@raoset.com>


On Feb 19, 2008, at 2:40 PM, Savoy, Melinda wrote:

> You are correct to say that I do not know the email addresses that  
> could
> possibly use the form.
>
> Thanks anyway.

There still might be away to do this... It's not a pure mailman  
solution, but I did it for a contact form I use at my office. I simply  
set the address that the e-mail is coming from to an approved sender  
address... So in other words: japruim at raoset.com is okay to post to  
the list, so I set the form e-mail from address to: japruim at raoset.com  
and then have it print their e-mail address in the e-mail so I can  
contact them :)

It may be considered a dirty solution, but it works great for me.

If you'ld like, I could send you a copy of my contact form offlist  
which only requires PHP to run it..


>
>
>
> I think what Jason was suggesting is to put the email addresses of the
> potential senders of the messages in accept_these_nonmembers, but I
> think you're saying you don't know these addresses in advance, so that
> won't work.

Hi Mark,

Yeah, that's what I was thinking :)


--

Jason Pruim
Raoset Inc.
Technology Manager
MQC Specialist
3251 132nd ave
Holland, MI, 49424
www.raoset.com
japruim at raoset.com



From cyndi at tikvah.com  Tue Feb 19 20:49:23 2008
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:49:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need ability to allow emails
	with	specificsubject line
In-Reply-To: <1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F48202806050@phdex03.txhealth.org>
	(MelindaSavoy@texashealth.org)
References: <1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F4820280604F@phdex03.txhealth.org>
	<PC17602008021911253505002e243077@msapiro>
	<1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F48202806050@phdex03.txhealth.org>
Message-ID: <200802191949.m1JJnNo9028572@a.mail.sonic.net>

When I have had forms on my web pages, I was shocked by just how many of
the submissions were spam.  I could never figure out if a human took the
time to fill out all those little text boxes or if there was a generator
somewhere.  Sometimes the boxes were filled randomly and sometimes they
were done coherently.  More than half the submissions were total spam.

I strongly recommend that you do not set things up to post from a website
automatically.  I see that you are talking about forms distributed in
email, but the chances for spam are still there.

It takes some time to screen them all but it is worth it IMHO because even
one spam really pisses people off and makes a huge mess.

Cyndi



From japruim at raoset.com  Tue Feb 19 21:04:14 2008
From: japruim at raoset.com (Jason Pruim)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:04:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need ability to allow emails
	with	specificsubject line
In-Reply-To: <200802191949.m1JJnNo9028572@a.mail.sonic.net>
References: <1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F4820280604F@phdex03.txhealth.org>
	<PC17602008021911253505002e243077@msapiro>
	<1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F48202806050@phdex03.txhealth.org>
	<200802191949.m1JJnNo9028572@a.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <3640749D-A476-4A1D-A5A6-F39E7C439CC6@raoset.com>


On Feb 19, 2008, at 2:49 PM, Cyndi Norwitz wrote:

> When I have had forms on my web pages, I was shocked by just how  
> many of
> the submissions were spam.  I could never figure out if a human took  
> the
> time to fill out all those little text boxes or if there was a  
> generator
> somewhere.  Sometimes the boxes were filled randomly and sometimes  
> they
> were done coherently.  More than half the submissions were total spam.
>
> I strongly recommend that you do not set things up to post from a  
> website
> automatically.  I see that you are talking about forms distributed in
> email, but the chances for spam are still there.
>
> It takes some time to screen them all but it is worth it IMHO  
> because even
> one spam really pisses people off and makes a huge mess.
>
> Cyndi


Hi Cyndi,

Yes spam is a big issue, and to an extent, you will never get rid of  
spam... I say this as someone who runs a company email server and is  
in charge of keeping the spam down :)

There are ways though to make sure that no bots can submit to your  
forms... And the way I setup my mailman lists, is that no one but  
authorized people can post to the list, which does block e-mail  
harvesting techniques.

There are also CAPTCHA's that you can put on your web form's to avoid  
spam, but that has it's own set of drawbacks... Plenty of info on the  
web about it.

If you have someone paying people to submit forms on websites, there  
is no way to avoid that... Other then not having a form at all.

And there are people who do that... I have seen lots of adds  
requesting people to do just that...

So basically I agree with you, with a few stipulations.

:)

--

Jason Pruim
Raoset Inc.
Technology Manager
MQC Specialist
3251 132nd ave
Holland, MI, 49424
www.raoset.com
japruim at raoset.com



From jacsdad at nc.rr.com  Tue Feb 19 21:06:47 2008
From: jacsdad at nc.rr.com (Thomas J Casey)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:06:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 48, Issue 41
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4399.1203451456.9266.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <001201c87332$f4f9a6a0$6401a8c0@jacsdad>

Help  please remove me from distribution.

Jacsdad aka Thomas J Casey
 
Upon his retirement, a former NASCAR Winston Cup Champion was quoted: "the
Older I get... the Better I was"


-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+jacsdad=nc.rr.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+jacsdad=nc.rr.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
mailman-users-request at python.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 3:04 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 48, Issue 41


Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to
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From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 19 21:07:45 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 12:07:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need ability to allow emails with
	specificsubject line
In-Reply-To: <1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F48202806050@phdex03.txhealth.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020080219120745039023f4daf3@msapiro>

Savoy, Melinda wrote:

>You are correct to say that I do not know the email addresses that could
>possibly use the form.  
>
>Thanks anyway.   


Did you read the rest of my reply quoted below? It contains a solution
(if you still want to do it after reading Cyndi's reply). If you don't
understand the solution, but are interested, please ask specific
questions about it.


>
>If your web form actually generates the email to the list, you can
>generate it with an
>
>Approved: <password>
>
>header, where <password> is the list admin or list moderator password
>(moderator would be safer in case it gets inadvertently exposed via your
>web application).
>
>This 'pre-approves' the mail and bypasses the membership tests. The
>header is removed from the mail to the list members so the password
>isn't exposed that way.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From japruim at raoset.com  Tue Feb 19 21:11:56 2008
From: japruim at raoset.com (Jason Pruim)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:11:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need ability to allow emails with
	specificsubject line
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080219120745039023f4daf3@msapiro>
References: <PC176020080219120745039023f4daf3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <02649D0A-7742-4B53-A6AD-B9E3D25DA84C@raoset.com>


On Feb 19, 2008, at 3:07 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Savoy, Melinda wrote:
>
>> You are correct to say that I do not know the email addresses that  
>> could
>> possibly use the form.
>>
>> Thanks anyway.
>
>
> Did you read the rest of my reply quoted below? It contains a solution
> (if you still want to do it after reading Cyndi's reply). If you don't
> understand the solution, but are interested, please ask specific
> questions about it.

Hi Mark,

I actually have a question about this... Normally, I create an archive  
of all the mailing lists that I run, if I were to add a header that  
said Approved: <My super Hard password> would that get archived? I'll  
be honest, I haven't taken the time to read through the possibilities,  
but thought I would ask you real quick :)

Off to google and the docs to see what I can figure out!


>
>
>
>>
>> If your web form actually generates the email to the list, you can
>> generate it with an
>>
>> Approved: <password>
>>
>> header, where <password> is the list admin or list moderator password
>> (moderator would be safer in case it gets inadvertently exposed via  
>> your
>> web application).
>>
>> This 'pre-approves' the mail and bypasses the membership tests. The
>> header is removed from the mail to the list members so the password
>> isn't exposed that way.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

--

Jason Pruim
Raoset Inc.
Technology Manager
MQC Specialist
3251 132nd ave
Holland, MI, 49424
www.raoset.com
japruim at raoset.com



From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 19 21:26:27 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 12:26:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need ability to allow emails with
	specificsubject line
In-Reply-To: <02649D0A-7742-4B53-A6AD-B9E3D25DA84C@raoset.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008021912262705624383882d@msapiro>

Jason Pruim wrote:
>
>I actually have a question about this... Normally, I create an archive  
>of all the mailing lists that I run, if I were to add a header that  
>said Approved: <My super Hard password> would that get archived? I'll  
>be honest, I haven't taken the time to read through the possibilities,  
>but thought I would ask you real quick :)


The header is removed prior to any Mailman archiving and prior to
Mailman delivering the post anywhere such as an external archiver.

If you are somehow archiving incoming mail before it is delivered to
Mailman, then that will still contain the header.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 19 21:44:09 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 12:44:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need ability to allow emails with
	specificsubject line
In-Reply-To: <1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F48202806052@phdex03.txhealth.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020080219124409070364e76e08@msapiro>

Savoy, Melinda wrote:
>
>I am working with a CGI form that I am calling from a PHP page.
>
>So I'm not sure how I would implement an Approve <password> option on
>the form.  Hope that makes sense.


See the additional_headers argument to the php mail() function at
<http://us2.php.net/function.mail>.

<rant>
Also note that the note on that page which says "Note: If messages are
not received, try using a LF (\n) only. Some poor quality Unix mail
transfer agents replace LF by CRLF automatically (which leads to
doubling CR if CRLF is used). This should be a last resort, as it does
not comply with ? RFC 2822." was written by someone with a poor
understanding of the difference between a message "on the wire" and a
message in the local system. With php on a *nix server, the proper
termination is LF (\n) only which is the *nix end of line convention
and which is appropriately translated to CRLF (\r\n) for transmission
on the wire.
</rant>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bernholdtde at ornl.gov  Tue Feb 19 20:58:22 2008
From: bernholdtde at ornl.gov (bernholdtde at ornl.gov)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 14:58:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regular expressions in list config files?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802190835120218ea7701a6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080219195822.83B7DCAD35@trunk.csm.ornl.gov>

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:35:12 -0800  Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Are you saying you see this with bin/dumpdb of the config.pck. If so,
> that's just the way python is showing the representation of the
> string. It is not the actual value of the string. If you doubt that,
> try 'strings' instead of 'bin/dumpdb'.

Ah, that seems to be it.  dumpdb, config_list, and the web u/i all
show the quoting of the backslashes, but strings on the pickle show it
as I entered it.  (Too bad such things don't "roundtrip" properly
through tools that are supposed to do that, like config_list and the
web u/i.)

So the next question is why doesn't the header_filter_rules appear to
be working? Message are getting held (which is what I'm doing for
testing purposes), but the indicated reason is non-subscriber posting
rather than the header filter. (Both conditions are true for the
majority of junk that comes through, but there are some lists where I
really do need to allow legitimate non-subscriber posts, with
moderator approvals.)

As I understand it, SpamDetect runs before Hold, and I thought that
the first exception kicked it out of the handler processing.

Is there some logging I can turn on to see more details as to what's
going on in here?

Thanks
--
David E. Bernholdt                   |   Email: bernholdtde at ornl.gov 
Oak Ridge National Laboratory        |   Phone: +1 (865) 574 3147    
http://www.csm.ornl.gov/~bernhold/   |   Fax:   +1 (865) 576 5491    

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 19 23:23:49 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 14:23:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regular expressions in list config files?
In-Reply-To: <20080219195822.83B7DCAD35@trunk.csm.ornl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802191423490703acf84e70@msapiro>

bernholdtde at ornl.gov wrote:

>On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:35:12 -0800  Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Are you saying you see this with bin/dumpdb of the config.pck. If so,
>> that's just the way python is showing the representation of the
>> string. It is not the actual value of the string. If you doubt that,
>> try 'strings' instead of 'bin/dumpdb'.
>
>Ah, that seems to be it.  dumpdb, config_list, and the web u/i all
>show the quoting of the backslashes, but strings on the pickle show it
>as I entered it.  (Too bad such things don't "roundtrip" properly
>through tools that are supposed to do that, like config_list and the
>web u/i.)


What Mailman version is this. In my case, the web u/i shows the value I
enter without doubling the '\'.

Also, the 'round trip' issue seems OK, at least for config_list -o
followed by config_list -i. config_list reads the \\s and converts \\
to a literal \ so what gets put in the config is '\' followed by 's'
which is exactly what you want. If you gave config_list something like

header_filter_rules = [('^x-header:\s+some value$', 0, False)]

it would interpret '\s' as a literal 's' and you would lose the '\'.
config_list needs either

header_filter_rules = [('^x-header:\\s+some value$', 0, False)]

or

header_filter_rules = [(r'^x-header:\s+some value$', 0, False)]

Note that there is a big difference between '\s' in a string and say
'\n'. '\s' is two characters. '\' and 's' whereas '\n' is a single
newline character.


>So the next question is why doesn't the header_filter_rules appear to
>be working? Message are getting held (which is what I'm doing for
>testing purposes), but the indicated reason is non-subscriber posting
>rather than the header filter. (Both conditions are true for the
>majority of junk that comes through, but there are some lists where I
>really do need to allow legitimate non-subscriber posts, with
>moderator approvals.)


Good question. I think we need to determine why the web u/i is showing
the doubled '\'. It shouldn't, and whatever is making it do so, may
also be the reason for the rules not matching.


>As I understand it, SpamDetect runs before Hold, and I thought that
>the first exception kicked it out of the handler processing.


That is correct.


>Is there some logging I can turn on to see more details as to what's
>going on in here?


Unfortunately, no. You have to actually code additional logging in the
handler.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bjames at cisco.com  Wed Feb 20 02:22:44 2008
From: bjames at cisco.com (Beau James)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:22:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing posting to list "A" by members of list "B"?
Message-ID: <200802200122.m1K1Mi75021764@cisco.com>

We sometimes have related but distinct mailing lists, e.g. one
for coaches and one for referees in the same league.  Both lists
are moderated.

We'd like to turn on the flag to allow postings (still moderated)
only by members of the list.  For the usual reason: SPAMmers
are overwhelming the volunteer list moderators.

At the same time, we'd like to allow member of the related list
still to be able to post (postings still to be moderated).  That
is, we'd like the members of list "A" to be allowed to post to
list "B", without registering as members of list "B".

We could do this by, in effect, maintaining two copies of each
mailing list: one is the actual mailing list "A", and the other
is in the 'allowed posters' section of the list "B".  (And
vice-versa).

This is rather painful to administer, of course.

(Assuming both the mailing list memberships and the allowed
posters lists are stored in files, one could create a script
and cron job to periodically sync/merge the membership of list
"A" into the "allowed posters" of list "B".  Unfortunately, we
do not have that kind of shell access to the our list server.)

Any hints on how one might best accomplish this?

Thanks.

Beau

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 20 02:36:18 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:36:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing posting to list "A" by members of list
	"B"?
In-Reply-To: <200802200122.m1K1Mi75021764@cisco.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802191736180875ae6ab1dd@msapiro>

Beau James wrote:

>We sometimes have related but distinct mailing lists, e.g. one
>for coaches and one for referees in the same league.  Both lists
>are moderated.
>
>We'd like to turn on the flag to allow postings (still moderated)
>only by members of the list.  For the usual reason: SPAMmers
>are overwhelming the volunteer list moderators.
>
>At the same time, we'd like to allow member of the related list
>still to be able to post (postings still to be moderated).  That
>is, we'd like the members of list "A" to be allowed to post to
>list "B", without registering as members of list "B".


There is a patch at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>
which is included in the Mailman 2.1.10 base. This enables putting
list B in one of list A's *_these_nonmembers via the syntax @listb.

With Mailman 2.1.10 or with the patch in prior versions, you can put
@listb in lista's hold_these_nonmembers to accomplish what you want.

Note that you don't want to use accept_these_nonmembers, as that will
bypass moderation.

<snip>
>(Assuming both the mailing list memberships and the allowed
>posters lists are stored in files, one could create a script
>and cron job to periodically sync/merge the membership of list
>"A" into the "allowed posters" of list "B".  Unfortunately, we
>do not have that kind of shell access to the our list server.)
>
>Any hints on how one might best accomplish this?


It's as simple as installing the patch or upgrading to Mailman 2.1.10
(currently in beta with a release candidate due soon). All you need to
do is convince your provider to do it.<wink>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bjames at cisco.com  Wed Feb 20 02:44:47 2008
From: bjames at cisco.com (Beau James)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:44:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing posting to list "A" by members of list
	"B"?
Message-ID: <200802200144.m1K1ileC025652@cisco.com>

Thanks for the quick response.

--> >At the same time, we'd like to allow member of the related list
--> >still to be able to post (postings still to be moderated).  That
--> >is, we'd like the members of list "A" to be allowed to post to
--> >list "B", without registering as members of list "B".
--> 
--> There is a patch at
--> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>
--> which is included in the Mailman 2.1.10 base. This enables putting
--> list B in one of list A's *_these_nonmembers via the syntax @listb.
--> 
--> With Mailman 2.1.10 or with the patch in prior versions, you can put
--> @listb in lista's hold_these_nonmembers to accomplish what you want.

Perfect!

--> >Any hints on how one might best accomplish this?
--> 
--> It's as simple as installing the patch or upgrading to Mailman 2.1.10
--> (currently in beta with a release candidate due soon). All you need to
--> do is convince your provider to do it.<wink>

I'll take a run at that.  Even if we don't get quick satisfaction,
it's good to know that there is relief on the horizon.

Thanks again.

Beau

From Jan at Bytesmiths.com  Wed Feb 20 03:01:50 2008
From: Jan at Bytesmiths.com (Jan Steinman)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:01:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 48, Issue 41
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4465.1203471381.9266.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.4465.1203471381.9266.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <BDAB6146-62CA-491E-B3EF-FAE306508843@Bytesmiths.com>

> From: "Thomas J Casey" <jacsdad at nc.rr.com>
>
> Help  please remove me from distribution.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> ...
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



:::: Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is  
the merger of state and corporate power. -- Benito Mussolini
:::: Jan Steinman <http://www.Bytesmiths.com>



From bruceclark at icon.co.za  Wed Feb 20 07:38:54 2008
From: bruceclark at icon.co.za (Bruce Clark)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:38:54 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW:  Footer Question
In-Reply-To: <200802191425.m1JEPpRC013573@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <C3E1979E.A07F%bruceclark@icon.co.za>

Thanks - sorry about that.

When I whizzed through the FAQ, my eyes didn't pick up the subject line.

Regards,

Bruce.

------ Forwarded Message
From: Barry Finkel <b19141 at britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:25:51 -0600 (CST)
To: <Mailman-Users at python.org>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Footer Question

>
>Hi All,
>
>Apologies if this is a bit simple; I have looked through the FAQ...
>
>I have a bit of footer text which I put in msg_footer (digest and non
>digest).
>
>Some people can see it, but some people cannot. Those that cannot see it,
>get a small file as an attachment (ATT).
>
>Am I doing something wrong, or would this be specific  to a mail client?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bruce.

Maybe this FAQ:

     http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994

------------------------------------------------------
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Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bruceclark%40icon.co.za

Security Policy: 
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------ End of Forwarded Message



From rick at learntime.com  Wed Feb 20 12:15:58 2008
From: rick at learntime.com (Rick Harris)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:15:58 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
Message-ID: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>

My hosting company tells me that the mail logs indicate that the majority of
Mailman's messages to Yahoo addresses return a "deferred" message.  Here is
the complete message:

 

whateveraddress at yahoo.com R=lookuphost T=remote_smtp defer (0): SMTP error
from remote mail server after initial connection: host g.mx.mail.yahoo.com
[206.190.53.191]: 421 4.7.0 [TS02] Messages from 216.104.33.122 temporarily
deferred due to user complaints - 4.16.56.1; see
http://postmaster.yahoo.com/421-ts02.html

 

All of my outgoing email uses the same server located at 216.104.33.122 and
any single email that I send to any Yahoo address using any client is
received just fine. 

 

My Mailman list is very small with < 20 members and only 3 Yahoo addresses
and the user complaint thing is bogus. This is a golf list for crying out
loud.all of the members want to know what their tee times are for Saturday!
All of Yahoo addresses have the same issue, even my own which I added to the
list for testing.   And I said majority, because 1 in 15 or so messages will
miraculously come through.

 

Does anyone else have any experience with this, and is there something that
I can do on my end that would help?  

 

Rick Harris



 


From zszalbot at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 12:40:48 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:40:48 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
Message-ID: <94136a2c0802200340xa17821fgdc473c1e8d3a8444@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

2008/2/20, Rick Harris <rick at learntime.com>:
> My hosting company tells me that the mail logs indicate that the majority of
> Mailman's messages to Yahoo addresses return a "deferred" message.  Here is
> the complete message:

This is not even remotely mailman related. I have the same issue with
normal mail. Contact yahoo, they reply initially, then keep quiet and
nothing changes. The bigger the company, the worse it gets.

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

From MelindaSavoy at texashealth.org  Wed Feb 20 12:46:21 2008
From: MelindaSavoy at texashealth.org (Savoy, Melinda)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:46:21 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need ability to allow emails with
	specificsubject line
In-Reply-To: <3E760FB9-0F8F-4824-9A3F-B42D0B48A5D3@raoset.com>
References: <1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F4820280604F@phdex03.txhealth.org>
	<PC17602008021911253505002e243077@msapiro>
	<1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F48202806050@phdex03.txhealth.org>
	<6A999CA9-6BDC-4427-9832-AD8AC891A872@raoset.com>
	<1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F48202806051@phdex03.txhealth.org>
	<3E760FB9-0F8F-4824-9A3F-B42D0B48A5D3@raoset.com>
Message-ID: <1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F48202806058@phdex03.txhealth.org>

Well I found a workaround for my problem.  I used in the CGIEmail, as
was suggested yesterday, to just use  an email address in the FROM line
of my CGI form file that was accepted by the email list and it worked
famously.  

I don't know why I had not thought of that but I appreciate the insight
and direction that was given.

Thanks so much for all the help and the responses.

Jason, thanks for all your help and the code that you gave.  I may be
using it in the future.  Thanks so much.

Regards. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Pruim [mailto:japruim at raoset.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:58 PM
To: Savoy, Melinda
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Need ability to allow emails with
specificsubject line

Hi Melinda,

I haven't done much with CGI myself, but I guess you would just have to
change the form to process this new script :) Obviously make sure  
to change any of contact at raoset.com to what ever you want it to be.   
And this form is setup to use the POSt method, but can be changed to use
GET... Let me know if you have any questions about it. And if you
improve it, definitely let me know... This was something I cooked up on
my own, and there could be issues with it, but it's been working great
for me for about a year with no spam... But that could be because I
don't allow hardly any spam into my system... Or I'm just lucky :)

I went ahead and zipped both the php script, and my webpage that I
display to gather the info, just so you can see how everything fits
together.


--

Jason Pruim
Raoset Inc.
Technology Manager
MQC Specialist
3251 132nd ave
Holland, MI, 49424
www.raoset.com
japruim at raoset.com




The information contained in this message and any attachments is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from copying, distributing, or using the information.  Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete the original message from your system.

From rick at learntime.com  Wed Feb 20 13:06:20 2008
From: rick at learntime.com (Rick Harris)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:06:20 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <94136a2c0802200340xa17821fgdc473c1e8d3a8444@mail.gmail.com>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<94136a2c0802200340xa17821fgdc473c1e8d3a8444@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007501c873b9$01262440$03726cc0$@com>

Thank you for the response.  

I have spent time testing individual mail to the same addresses from the
same source and I am successful.   

What I failed to note in my posting is that this occurs when the mail is
going to multiple addresses as in a normal post.  If I go into my list and
turn everyone off except for my Yahoo address, it will work EVERY time.
Then I go back in and turn all of the addresses back on and the Yahoo
addresses get "deferred" including mine.

I'm not blaming Mailman...I'm just asking if there is something about
Mailman that I can change that will overcome this.  Changing anything about
Yahoo would be like changing heaven and earth.  Surely, someone else is
experiencing this issue.

Thanks again,

Rick Harris


-----Original Message-----
From: Zbigniew Szalbot [mailto:zszalbot at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 5:41 AM
To: Rick Harris
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo

Hi,

2008/2/20, Rick Harris <rick at learntime.com>:
> My hosting company tells me that the mail logs indicate that the majority
of
> Mailman's messages to Yahoo addresses return a "deferred" message.  Here
is
> the complete message:

This is not even remotely mailman related. I have the same issue with
normal mail. Contact yahoo, they reply initially, then keep quiet and
nothing changes. The bigger the company, the worse it gets.

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot




From roberto.gherardi at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 12:49:34 2008
From: roberto.gherardi at gmail.com (Roberto Gherardi)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:49:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce question
Message-ID: <584954160802200349y573ad6faqb5a3edbb1f3c52a0@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I have a problem whit the bounce.

I would like to know if I can redirect all messages bounce (managed by the
engine internal mailman) of a particular news letter on a specific address
e-mail


Many Thanks

RGdC

From AGabriel at jcschools.stier.org  Wed Feb 20 13:39:09 2008
From: AGabriel at jcschools.stier.org (Adam Gabriel)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:39:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
Message-ID: <47BBD91C.FEF8.00D9.1@jcschools.stier.org>

This sounds like an anitspam tactic to me. Messages addressed to multiple recipients are deferred, since a lot of spammers won't try sending a deferred message again; It's not worth their time or resources to keep track of deferred messages, and then go back and retry them. A legitimate mail will go through, just not until your MTA sends it a second time, upon which their servers will most likely accept it.
 
>>> On 2/20/2008 at 6:15 AM, in message <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>, "Rick Harris" <rick at learntime.com> wrote:
My hosting company tells me that the mail logs indicate that the majority of
Mailman's messages to Yahoo addresses return a "deferred" message.  Here is
the complete message:



...

From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Wed Feb 20 13:33:53 2008
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:33:53 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <007501c873b9$01262440$03726cc0$@com>
Message-ID: <C3E17A51.53D44%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 2/20/08 6:06 AM, Rick Harris at rick at learntime.com wrote:

> Thank you for the response.
> 
> I have spent time testing individual mail to the same addresses from the
> same source and I am successful.
> 
> What I failed to note in my posting is that this occurs when the mail is
> going to multiple addresses as in a normal post.  If I go into my list and
> turn everyone off except for my Yahoo address, it will work EVERY time.
> Then I go back in and turn all of the addresses back on and the Yahoo
> addresses get "deferred" including mine.
> 
> I'm not blaming Mailman...I'm just asking if there is something about
> Mailman that I can change that will overcome this.  Changing anything about
> Yahoo would be like changing heaven and earth.  Surely, someone else is
> experiencing this issue.

Turn on VERP or full personalization. That will force mailman to generate a
separate message for each recipient and Yahoo will see several messages each
addresses to one recipient rather than one message addressed to multiple
recipients.

Unfortunately, when a recipient chooses to use a free e-mail service, they
get what they're paying for.
 
-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/



From brian at emwd.com  Wed Feb 20 14:12:48 2008
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:12:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
Message-ID: <007001c873c2$4c2daa90$e488ffb0$@com>

> 
> My Mailman list is very small with < 20 members and only 3 Yahoo
> addresses
> and the user complaint thing is bogus. This is a golf list for crying
> out
> loud.all of the members want to know what their tee times are for
> Saturday!
> All of Yahoo addresses have the same issue, even my own which I added
> to the
> list for testing.   And I said majority, because 1 in 15 or so messages
> will
> miraculously come through.
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone else have any experience with this, and is there something
> that
> I can do on my end that would help?
> 
> 
> 
> Rick Harris
> 

The user complaint notice is bogus. I monitored a batch that had several
yahoo addresses in. When I tried to manually push through the batch, I
received a 451 and 421 error message from yahoo. The third yahoo address
when through fine. So in just one batch I received 3 different responses
from yahoo.

This is not a mailman issue but a yahoo problem. I have also tried getting
my servers whitelisted and to sign up for their feedback loop but all to no
avail.

If your hosting company is running exim as their mta, ask them to run one of
the following commands every 5 minutes are so:

exim -Rff yahoo.com

or

exim -qff

Those are the commands that I use to get my clients' posts pushed through to
yahoo accounts in a relatively short time.

Running VERP is not a viable alternative for those of us who host multiple
mailing lists due to the resource hit that the server takes.

I think the long term solution is to get your members signed up to your list
with another e-mail address. If only yahoo's free email users knew how yahoo
is interfering with their mail delivery.

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"


From rick at learntime.com  Wed Feb 20 14:23:15 2008
From: rick at learntime.com (Rick Harris)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:23:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <007001c873c2$4c2daa90$e488ffb0$@com>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<007001c873c2$4c2daa90$e488ffb0$@com>
Message-ID: <009d01c873c3$bfc95980$3f5c0c80$@com>

Thanks for your reply.  I understand that ultimately it is a Yahoo problem
and ultimately something that will never be cured.  I was hoping since I
only run one small list that there was a "magic" switch that I could flip
that would get past Yahoo.

Rick Harris

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Carpenter [mailto:brian at emwd.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:13 AM
To: 'Rick Harris'; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo

> 
> My Mailman list is very small with < 20 members and only 3 Yahoo
> addresses
> and the user complaint thing is bogus. This is a golf list for crying
> out
> loud.all of the members want to know what their tee times are for
> Saturday!
> All of Yahoo addresses have the same issue, even my own which I added
> to the
> list for testing.   And I said majority, because 1 in 15 or so messages
> will
> miraculously come through.
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone else have any experience with this, and is there something
> that
> I can do on my end that would help?
> 
> 
> 
> Rick Harris
> 

The user complaint notice is bogus. I monitored a batch that had several
yahoo addresses in. When I tried to manually push through the batch, I
received a 451 and 421 error message from yahoo. The third yahoo address
when through fine. So in just one batch I received 3 different responses
from yahoo.

This is not a mailman issue but a yahoo problem. I have also tried getting
my servers whitelisted and to sign up for their feedback loop but all to no
avail.

If your hosting company is running exim as their mta, ask them to run one of
the following commands every 5 minutes are so:

exim -Rff yahoo.com

or

exim -qff

Those are the commands that I use to get my clients' posts pushed through to
yahoo accounts in a relatively short time.

Running VERP is not a viable alternative for those of us who host multiple
mailing lists due to the resource hit that the server takes.

I think the long term solution is to get your members signed up to your list
with another e-mail address. If only yahoo's free email users knew how yahoo
is interfering with their mail delivery.

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"





From dblack at ualberta.ca  Wed Feb 20 15:38:07 2008
From: dblack at ualberta.ca (Dennis Black)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:38:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <009d01c873c3$bfc95980$3f5c0c80$@com>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>	<007001c873c2$4c2daa90$e488ffb0$@com>
	<009d01c873c3$bfc95980$3f5c0c80$@com>
Message-ID: <47BC3B4F.706@ualberta.ca>

Rick Harris wrote:
> Thanks for your reply.  I understand that ultimately it is a Yahoo problem
> and ultimately something that will never be cured.  I was hoping since I
> only run one small list that there was a "magic" switch that I could flip
> that would get past Yahoo.
>
> Rick Harris
>
>   
Rick, the last time Yahoo did this was in December, and I spent a week 
trying to contact someone there with a pulse,
tried getting added to their whitelist, filled in forms, read their 
automated responses, etc.
After about two weeks, the deferrals went away. Until now.
Even with my postfix configured for a "slow" Yahoo, as in the following, 
I still have 2600 Yahoo deferrals in my retry queue.

postfix/master.cf
yahoo     unix  -       -       n       -       1       smtp

postfix/main.cf
yahoo_destination_recipient_limit = 5            # matches Yahoo's limit
yahoo_destination_concurreny_limit = 2

postfix/transport
yahoo.ca        yahoo:
yahoo.com       yahoo:
(with subsequent 'postmap transport')


-- 
Dennis Black
System Admin
Academic Information and Communication Technologies (AICT)
(780-)492-9329
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to which
it is addressed, and may contain confidential, personal, and/or
privileged information. Please contact us immediately if you are not
the intended recipient of this communication. If you are not the
intended recipient of this communication, do not copy, distribute,
or take action on it. Any communication received in error, or
subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.


From attila at kinali.ch  Wed Feb 20 16:24:47 2008
From: attila at kinali.ch (Attila Kinali)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:24:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
Message-ID: <20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:15:58 -0600
"Rick Harris" <rick at learntime.com> wrote:


> whateveraddress at yahoo.com R=lookuphost T=remote_smtp defer (0): SMTP error
> from remote mail server after initial connection: host g.mx.mail.yahoo.com
> [206.190.53.191]: 421 4.7.0 [TS02] Messages from 216.104.33.122 temporarily
> deferred due to user complaints - 4.16.56.1; see
> http://postmaster.yahoo.com/421-ts02.html

Same here, although i get a TS01 instead of a TS02. And 10'000 a day of those.
 

> All of my outgoing email uses the same server located at 216.104.33.122 and
> any single email that I send to any Yahoo address using any client is
> received just fine. 

As far as i can tell, they only do it for certain IPs and only certain
MX have that problem (although i didn't check which ones they are and
whether it changes over time). So, finally all mails will arrive somewhen.

> My Mailman list is very small with < 20 members and only 3 Yahoo addresses
> and the user complaint thing is bogus. This is a golf list for crying out
> loud.all of the members want to know what their tee times are for Saturday!
> All of Yahoo addresses have the same issue, even my own which I added to the
> list for testing.   And I said majority, because 1 in 15 or so messages will
> miraculously come through.

Just wait a bit. If you set up your MTA correctly, it will choose a random
MX and hit one that accepts your mails.

 
> Does anyone else have any experience with this, and is there something that
> I can do on my end that would help?  

Pester yahoo. Although i doubt that this will help much. I'm now
in "contact" with them for over two weeks. The first respond i got
from them was a standard mail that i should contact my mail admin
(ie they haven't even read what i wrote). After repeating the
same thing 4 or 5 times, because they asked for the same stuff
(domain name, server ip, log file) over and over again i threatened
them to unsubsribe all subscribers from yahoo (a total of about 600 of them)
and tell everyone to choose a different freemailer. Since then, they
appologize in every mail, but nothing changed so far.

Now over two weeks after my initial "contact", i consider really
unsubscribing all yahoo users and put a news entry on our webpage
with the explenation if the situation doesn't change by this weekend.
I'm quite sure that this will catch their attention... even if it's too late.

				Attila Kinali
-- 
Praised are the Fountains of Shelieth, the silver harp of the waters,
But blest in my name forever this stream that stanched my thirst!
                         -- Deed of Morred

From brian at emwd.com  Wed Feb 20 16:48:17 2008
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:48:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
Message-ID: <008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>

> > My Mailman list is very small with < 20 members and only 3 Yahoo
> addresses
> > and the user complaint thing is bogus. This is a golf list for crying
> out
> > loud.all of the members want to know what their tee times are for
> Saturday!
> > All of Yahoo addresses have the same issue, even my own which I added
> to the
> > list for testing.   And I said majority, because 1 in 15 or so
> messages will
> > miraculously come through.
> 
> Just wait a bit. If you set up your MTA correctly, it will choose a
> random
> MX and hit one that accepts your mails.

It seems Rick is probably on a shared hosting environment and the time it
takes for his mail to finally be delivered will depend how large the hosting
company's mail queue is.

 
> 
> > Does anyone else have any experience with this, and is there
> something that
> > I can do on my end that would help?
> 
> Pester yahoo. Although i doubt that this will help much. I'm now
> in "contact" with them for over two weeks. The first respond i got
> from them was a standard mail that i should contact my mail admin
> (ie they haven't even read what i wrote). After repeating the
> same thing 4 or 5 times, because they asked for the same stuff
> (domain name, server ip, log file) over and over again i threatened
> them to unsubsribe all subscribers from yahoo (a total of about 600 of
> them)
> and tell everyone to choose a different freemailer. Since then, they
> appologize in every mail, but nothing changed so far.
> 
> Now over two weeks after my initial "contact", i consider really
> unsubscribing all yahoo users and put a news entry on our webpage
> with the explenation if the situation doesn't change by this weekend.
> I'm quite sure that this will catch their attention... even if it's too
> late.
> 

I really think the best option is to get our mailman list subscribers to
start using another e-mail provider. I think Yahoo should be sued for their
interference of legitimate e-mail communications and the way they have
wasted a large number of ISPs' time by the process that they make us go
through to try to get white listed with them or to even be placed upon their
feedback loop. In fact I haven't come across one ISP yet who has had their
servers successfully white listed with yahoo.

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"



From rick at learntime.com  Wed Feb 20 16:57:22 2008
From: rick at learntime.com (Rick Harris)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:57:22 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>
Message-ID: <010c01c873d9$478364f0$d68a2ed0$@com>

Yes.  I am on a shared server.  It seems that Yahoo picks up on the fact
that this is going to multiple recipients (apparent 5+ raises the flag).
Since I am on a shared server, it appears that my option for personalization
is turned off.  If I understand correctly, personalization might overcome
the Yahoo problem but might cause a problem with my host if my list was a
large one.  That may be an easier fight.

Thanks,

Rick Harris

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Carpenter [mailto:brian at emwd.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:48 AM
To: 'Attila Kinali'; 'Rick Harris'
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo

> > My Mailman list is very small with < 20 members and only 3 Yahoo
> addresses
> > and the user complaint thing is bogus. This is a golf list for crying
> out
> > loud.all of the members want to know what their tee times are for
> Saturday!
> > All of Yahoo addresses have the same issue, even my own which I added
> to the
> > list for testing.   And I said majority, because 1 in 15 or so
> messages will
> > miraculously come through.
> 
> Just wait a bit. If you set up your MTA correctly, it will choose a
> random
> MX and hit one that accepts your mails.

It seems Rick is probably on a shared hosting environment and the time it
takes for his mail to finally be delivered will depend how large the hosting
company's mail queue is.

 
> 
> > Does anyone else have any experience with this, and is there
> something that
> > I can do on my end that would help?
> 
> Pester yahoo. Although i doubt that this will help much. I'm now
> in "contact" with them for over two weeks. The first respond i got
> from them was a standard mail that i should contact my mail admin
> (ie they haven't even read what i wrote). After repeating the
> same thing 4 or 5 times, because they asked for the same stuff
> (domain name, server ip, log file) over and over again i threatened
> them to unsubsribe all subscribers from yahoo (a total of about 600 of
> them)
> and tell everyone to choose a different freemailer. Since then, they
> appologize in every mail, but nothing changed so far.
> 
> Now over two weeks after my initial "contact", i consider really
> unsubscribing all yahoo users and put a news entry on our webpage
> with the explenation if the situation doesn't change by this weekend.
> I'm quite sure that this will catch their attention... even if it's too
> late.
> 

I really think the best option is to get our mailman list subscribers to
start using another e-mail provider. I think Yahoo should be sued for their
interference of legitimate e-mail communications and the way they have
wasted a large number of ISPs' time by the process that they make us go
through to try to get white listed with them or to even be placed upon their
feedback loop. In fact I haven't come across one ISP yet who has had their
servers successfully white listed with yahoo.

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"






From attila at kinali.ch  Wed Feb 20 17:00:40 2008
From: attila at kinali.ch (Attila Kinali)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:00:40 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>
Message-ID: <20080220170040.02ffe09a.attila@kinali.ch>

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:48:17 -0500
"Brian Carpenter" <brian at emwd.com> wrote:

> I really think the best option is to get our mailman list subscribers to
> start using another e-mail provider. I think Yahoo should be sued for their
> interference of legitimate e-mail communications and the way they have
> wasted a large number of ISPs' time by the process that they make us go
> through to try to get white listed with them or to even be placed upon their
> feedback loop. In fact I haven't come across one ISP yet who has had their
> servers successfully white listed with yahoo.

ISP? What ISP? I manage only the mail server of an OSS project,
nothing fancy (although we produce as many mails as a small ISP).
And all that in my free time too. Yahoo is definitly not worth
the time i invested sofar to resolve this issue.

And yes, no other free mailer made that much trouble. Even GMX which
is known to be a pain is quite responsive if they see it comes from a
fellow admin.

Well, we'll see what happens. I'm quite sure you'll hear about
it if i "ban" yahoo.

			Attila Kinali

-- 
Praised are the Fountains of Shelieth, the silver harp of the waters,
But blest in my name forever this stream that stanched my thirst!
                         -- Deed of Morred

From zszalbot at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 17:04:45 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:04:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <010c01c873d9$478364f0$d68a2ed0$@com>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>
	<010c01c873d9$478364f0$d68a2ed0$@com>
Message-ID: <94136a2c0802200804h2f907e6bn65b9fa87405f0328@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

2008/2/20, Rick Harris <rick at learntime.com>:
> Yes.  I am on a shared server.  It seems that Yahoo picks up on the fact
>  that this is going to multiple recipients (apparent 5+ raises the flag).
>  Since I am on a shared server, it appears that my option for personalization
>  is turned off.  If I understand correctly, personalization might overcome
>  the Yahoo problem but might cause a problem with my host if my list was a
>  large one.  That may be an easier fight.

Not really. I generate email to yahoo separately for each recipient
and I am still having problems. Fortunately, I am using exim so -Rff
helps a lot. In short, while it may help, don't count too much on
this.

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

From brian at emwd.com  Wed Feb 20 17:03:09 2008
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:03:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <010c01c873d9$478364f0$d68a2ed0$@com>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>
	<010c01c873d9$478364f0$d68a2ed0$@com>
Message-ID: <009001c873da$182127f0$486377d0$@com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Harris [mailto:rick at learntime.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:57 AM
> To: 'Brian Carpenter'; 'Attila Kinali'
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
> 
> Yes.  I am on a shared server.  It seems that Yahoo picks up on the
> fact
> that this is going to multiple recipients (apparent 5+ raises the
> flag).
> Since I am on a shared server, it appears that my option for
> personalization
> is turned off.  If I understand correctly, personalization might
> overcome
> the Yahoo problem but might cause a problem with my host if my list was
> a
> large one.  That may be an easier fight.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rick Harris
> 

I doubt any web hosting company is going to enabled personalization on a
shared server environment. I know we won't. It is just too large of a
resource hit.

I also am not seeing this magic number (5) triggering Yahoo's response in my
observations of our mail logs. I think people are just speculating when they
try to find out why Yahoo is delaying their mail.

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"


From attila at kinali.ch  Wed Feb 20 17:13:44 2008
From: attila at kinali.ch (Attila Kinali)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:13:44 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <010c01c873d9$478364f0$d68a2ed0$@com>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>
	<010c01c873d9$478364f0$d68a2ed0$@com>
Message-ID: <20080220171344.5792af52.attila@kinali.ch>

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:57:22 -0600
"Rick Harris" <rick at learntime.com> wrote:

> Yes.  I am on a shared server.  It seems that Yahoo picks up on the fact
> that this is going to multiple recipients (apparent 5+ raises the flag).
> Since I am on a shared server, it appears that my option for personalization
> is turned off.  If I understand correctly, personalization might overcome
> the Yahoo problem but might cause a problem with my host if my list was a
> large one.  That may be an easier fight.

Yes, it might overcome this problem, but you'll get another,
even worse one: maintenance problems. Every setting you have
in your MTA needs to be checked over updates and might cause
undesired effects in case something, somewhere (even a remote host)
changes. Thus i will not add any special setting for yahoo or
any other freemailer/ISP/whatever

If yahoo wants to receive mails from my server (and i'm sure
they want because their users subscribed to my lists), then
they have to play nice like everyone else too.

			Attila Kinali

-- 
Praised are the Fountains of Shelieth, the silver harp of the waters,
But blest in my name forever this stream that stanched my thirst!
                         -- Deed of Morred

From brian at emwd.com  Wed Feb 20 17:20:19 2008
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:20:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <20080220171344.5792af52.attila@kinali.ch>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>	<010c01c873d9$478364f0$d68a2ed0$@com>
	<20080220171344.5792af52.attila@kinali.ch>
Message-ID: <00a201c873dc$7e594c80$7b0be580$@com>

> "Rick Harris" <rick at learntime.com> wrote:
> 
> > Yes.  I am on a shared server.  It seems that Yahoo picks up on the
> fact
> > that this is going to multiple recipients (apparent 5+ raises the
> flag).
> > Since I am on a shared server, it appears that my option for
> personalization
> > is turned off.  If I understand correctly, personalization might
> overcome
> > the Yahoo problem but might cause a problem with my host if my list
> was a
> > large one.  That may be an easier fight.
> 
> Yes, it might overcome this problem, but you'll get another,
> even worse one: maintenance problems. Every setting you have
> in your MTA needs to be checked over updates and might cause
> undesired effects in case something, somewhere (even a remote host)
> changes. Thus i will not add any special setting for yahoo or
> any other freemailer/ISP/whatever

Actually personalization is made within mailman not at the MTA level.


> If yahoo wants to receive mails from my server (and i'm sure
> they want because their users subscribed to my lists), then
> they have to play nice like everyone else too.
> 

I like your attitude!

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 20 17:21:52 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:21:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <009d01c873c3$bfc95980$3f5c0c80$@com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802200821520437e174bb49@msapiro>

Rick Harris wrote:

>Thanks for your reply.  I understand that ultimately it is a Yahoo problem
>and ultimately something that will never be cured.  I was hoping since I
>only run one small list that there was a "magic" switch that I could flip
>that would get past Yahoo.


If you are convinced that sending to only one Yahoo recipient per
message will avoid the problem, set Non-digest options-> personalize
to Yes. It doesn't have to be Full as another poster suggested, and
you don't actually have to personalize any header or footer
information. Setting personalize to Yes is enough to cause messages to
be sent individually.

If you don't see this option, you have to ask your provider to put

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes

in mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dblack at ualberta.ca  Wed Feb 20 17:23:46 2008
From: dblack at ualberta.ca (Dennis Black)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:23:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <009001c873da$182127f0$486377d0$@com>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>	<010c01c873d9$478364f0$d68a2ed0$@com>
	<009001c873da$182127f0$486377d0$@com>
Message-ID: <47BC5412.5020602@ualberta.ca>

Brian Carpenter wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rick Harris [mailto:rick at learntime.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:57 AM
>> To: 'Brian Carpenter'; 'Attila Kinali'
>> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
>> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
>>
>> Yes.  I am on a shared server.  It seems that Yahoo picks up on the
>> fact
>> that this is going to multiple recipients (apparent 5+ raises the
>> flag).
>> Since I am on a shared server, it appears that my option for
>> personalization
>> is turned off.  If I understand correctly, personalization might
>> overcome
>> the Yahoo problem but might cause a problem with my host if my list was
>> a
>> large one.  That may be an easier fight.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Rick Harris
>>
>>     
>
> I doubt any web hosting company is going to enabled personalization on a
> shared server environment. I know we won't. It is just too large of a
> resource hit.
>
> I also am not seeing this magic number (5) triggering Yahoo's response in my
> observations of our mail logs. I think people are just speculating when they
> try to find out why Yahoo is delaying their mail.
>
> Regards,
> Brian
>
>   
The "5" limit comes from a Yahoo page,
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/mail/postmaster/postmaster-277515.html

-- 
Dennis Black
System Admin
Academic Information and Communication Technologies (AICT)
(780-)492-9329
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to which
it is addressed, and may contain confidential, personal, and/or
privileged information. Please contact us immediately if you are not
the intended recipient of this communication. If you are not the
intended recipient of this communication, do not copy, distribute,
or take action on it. Any communication received in error, or
subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.


From b19141 at britaine.cis.anl.gov  Wed Feb 20 17:29:21 2008
From: b19141 at britaine.cis.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:29:21 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce question
In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Roberto Gherardi" <roberto.gherardi@gmail.com>'
	dated: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:49:34 +0100
Message-ID: <200802201629.m1KGTL8r012990@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

>Hi,
>
>I have a problem whit the bounce.
>
>I would like to know if I can redirect all messages bounce (managed by the
>engine internal mailman) of a particular news letter on a specific address
>e-mail
>
>
>Many Thanks
>
>RGdC

You can change the aliases file

     /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases (on my Mailman 2.1.9 Ubuntu)

by adding to the line:

     LISTNAME-bounces:  "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME"

this text:

     ,user at example.com

This, I believe, will send the bounces for the LISTNAME both to the
normal Mailman bounce processor and to the specified e-mail address.
Note that if Mailman auto-regenerates the alias file, your change
will be lost.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 20 17:40:44 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:40:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce question
In-Reply-To: <584954160802200349y573ad6faqb5a3edbb1f3c52a0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008022008404404843312eb70@msapiro>

Roberto Gherardi wrote:
>
>I have a problem whit the bounce.
>
>I would like to know if I can redirect all messages bounce (managed by the
>engine internal mailman) of a particular news letter on a specific address
>e-mail


No. Not in Mailman. If you want to redirect or copy all bounces from a
specific list to some given address, you may be able do that by
manipulating the listname-bounces alias in the MTA.

If you are saying that you want to redirect all bounce notices that are
generated by mail to a specific user from a specific list, I know of
no easy way to do that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brian at emwd.com  Wed Feb 20 17:42:10 2008
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:42:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <47BC5412.5020602@ualberta.ca>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>	<010c01c873d9$478364f0$d68a2ed0$@com>
	<009001c873da$182127f0$486377d0$@com>
	<47BC5412.5020602@ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <00a301c873df$8b324d50$a196e7f0$@com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis Black [mailto:dblack at ualberta.ca]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:24 AM
> To: Brian Carpenter
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
> 
> Brian Carpenter wrote:
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Rick Harris [mailto:rick at learntime.com]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:57 AM
> >> To: 'Brian Carpenter'; 'Attila Kinali'
> >> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> >> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
> >>
> >> Yes.  I am on a shared server.  It seems that Yahoo picks up on the
> >> fact
> >> that this is going to multiple recipients (apparent 5+ raises the
> >> flag).
> >> Since I am on a shared server, it appears that my option for
> >> personalization
> >> is turned off.  If I understand correctly, personalization might
> >> overcome
> >> the Yahoo problem but might cause a problem with my host if my list
> was
> >> a
> >> large one.  That may be an easier fight.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Rick Harris
> >>
> >>
> >
> > I doubt any web hosting company is going to enabled personalization
> on a
> > shared server environment. I know we won't. It is just too large of a
> > resource hit.
> >
> > I also am not seeing this magic number (5) triggering Yahoo's
> response in my
> > observations of our mail logs. I think people are just speculating
> when they
> > try to find out why Yahoo is delaying their mail.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Brian
> >
> >
> The "5" limit comes from a Yahoo page,
> http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/mail/postmaster/postmaster-277515.html
> 
> --
> Dennis Black

I might not be understanding Yahoo's statement correctly but that answer
doesn't seem to apply to connections being terminated for deferred reasons,
hence the " When this limit is reached, no further messages will be accepted
for delivery as our server automatically terminates the connection (without
giving an error code)." "Reestablish connections if you do not get an error
code" statements.


Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Feb 20 18:11:04 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 02:11:04 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
Message-ID: <8763wjwo2f.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Attila Kinali writes:

 > On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:15:58 -0600
 > "Rick Harris" <rick at learntime.com> wrote:
 > 
 > 
 > > whateveraddress at yahoo.com R=lookuphost T=remote_smtp defer (0): SMTP error
 > > from remote mail server after initial connection: host g.mx.mail.yahoo.com
 > > [206.190.53.191]: 421 4.7.0 [TS02] Messages from 216.104.33.122 temporarily
 > > deferred due to user complaints - 4.16.56.1; see
 > > http://postmaster.yahoo.com/421-ts02.html
 > 
 > Same here, although i get a TS01 instead of a TS02. And 10'000 a day of those.

This is just selective greylisting, which lots of sites use as a
blanket policy.

A look at

    http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/mail/postmaster/postmaster-15.html

suggests that Yahoo doesn't have a clue about discussion lists.  They
seem to think that all mailing lists are announcement lists (of course
that's apparently the OP's case).  Consider this list:

    Other great resources:

    * Help For Marketers by Scott Hazen Mueller
    * Marketing on the Internet Without Getting Burned by John C. Mozena
    * ESPC's best practices
    * How to Advertise Responsibly Using E-Mail and Newsgroups (RFC 3098)
    * MAAWG Sender BCP Version 1.1

:-(

If you're in a hosted environment, you might think about asking your
host to implement domain keys and/or PGP-signing your mail.  (Mailman
is (was?) not friendly to domain keys of non-owner posters, but in the
case of an announcement list having the host sign the post should work
fine.)


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Feb 20 18:30:38 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 02:30:38 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <00a201c873dc$7e594c80$7b0be580$@com>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>
	<010c01c873d9$478364f0$d68a2ed0$@com>
	<20080220171344.5792af52.attila@kinali.ch>
	<00a201c873dc$7e594c80$7b0be580$@com>
Message-ID: <873arnwn5t.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brian Carpenter writes:
[ IIRC it was Attila Kinali who wrote: ]

 > > If yahoo wants to receive mails from my server (and i'm sure
 > > they want because their users subscribed to my lists), then
 > > they have to play nice like everyone else too.
 > 
 > I like your attitude!

You're welcome to like the attitude, but it's really just the flip
side of Yahoo's.  The problem is spam, not Yahoo, and Yahoo serves a
clientele that in general cares more about spam getting through when
they don't want it than ham not getting through when they do want it.

If you really want to stick it to Yahoo, they claim that they respect
authenticated mail.  PGP sign everything that goes through your
server.  If they're serious about delivering mail that their users
want, that had better be good enough.

Not-yet-caring-enough-to-sign-my-own-mail-ly y'rs,



From rick at learntime.com  Wed Feb 20 18:34:46 2008
From: rick at learntime.com (Rick Harris)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:34:46 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <873arnwn5t.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>	<010c01c873d9$478364f0$d68a2ed0$@com>	<20080220171344.5792af52.attila@kinali.ch>	<00a201c873dc$7e594c80$7b0be580$@com>
	<873arnwn5t.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <014a01c873e6$e2f5efe0$a8e1cfa0$@com>

I guess the point of this and other messages regarding spam is that Yahoo is
being very cautious and erring on the side of protecting their clients.
Meanwhile, in my Yahoo mail account this morning, I flagged as spam a
message supposedly coming from Yahoo mail offering me random prizes, an
offer for me to claim some cash from Nigeria, and some porn.  

All my list is trying to do is to communicate with 15 golfers about what
time they are supposed to show up to play on Saturday.  Only 3 of those are
Yahoo addresses.

Rick Harris

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen J. Turnbull [mailto:stephen at xemacs.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:31 AM
To: Brian Carpenter
Cc: 'Attila Kinali'; 'Rick Harris'; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo

Brian Carpenter writes:
[ IIRC it was Attila Kinali who wrote: ]

 > > If yahoo wants to receive mails from my server (and i'm sure
 > > they want because their users subscribed to my lists), then
 > > they have to play nice like everyone else too.
 > 
 > I like your attitude!

You're welcome to like the attitude, but it's really just the flip
side of Yahoo's.  The problem is spam, not Yahoo, and Yahoo serves a
clientele that in general cares more about spam getting through when
they don't want it than ham not getting through when they do want it.

If you really want to stick it to Yahoo, they claim that they respect
authenticated mail.  PGP sign everything that goes through your
server.  If they're serious about delivering mail that their users
want, that had better be good enough.

Not-yet-caring-enough-to-sign-my-own-mail-ly y'rs,






From attila at kinali.ch  Wed Feb 20 18:41:50 2008
From: attila at kinali.ch (Attila Kinali)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:41:50 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <8763wjwo2f.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
	<8763wjwo2f.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20080220184150.c20819e0.attila@kinali.ch>

???

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 02:11:04 +0900
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:

> Attila Kinali writes:
> 
>  > On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:15:58 -0600
>  > "Rick Harris" <rick at learntime.com> wrote:
>  > 
>  > 
>  > > whateveraddress at yahoo.com R=lookuphost T=remote_smtp defer (0): SMTP error
>  > > from remote mail server after initial connection: host g.mx.mail.yahoo.com
>  > > [206.190.53.191]: 421 4.7.0 [TS02] Messages from 216.104.33.122 temporarily
>  > > deferred due to user complaints - 4.16.56.1; see
>  > > http://postmaster.yahoo.com/421-ts02.html
>  > 
>  > Same here, although i get a TS01 instead of a TS02. And 10'000 a day of those.
> 
> This is just selective greylisting, which lots of sites use as a
> blanket policy.

It's definitly not greylisting. Our server sends out a few dozen mails
a day on the low traffic lists to a few hundred on the high traffic ones.
Any greylisting that is half way sanely implemented should know after
the second mail that the server is a legitimate sender.

I don't know what they actually use to base their decission on, but
what ever it is, it's not one of the standard ways.

> A look at
> 
>     http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/mail/postmaster/postmaster-15.html

I've read that already and i comply with all but the Can-spam thingy
(no idea what that is) and the Domain-Keys (too lazy to set them up).
Heck, even all HTML is removed from the mails going over the lists.

> suggests that Yahoo doesn't have a clue about discussion lists.  They
> seem to think that all mailing lists are announcement lists (of course
> that's apparently the OP's case).  Consider this list:

I'd rather say they have no clue at all. 
>From a mail i got from them, after i send them 6 times in a row
the logs they requested as attachment _and_ said that i'm attaching
it in the mail itself:

---
From: Yahoo! Mail <abuse-admin(AT)cc.yahoo-inc.com>
[...]
Unfortunately, your message was sent to us as an attachment or html 
document.  

Due to security purposes, our custom messaging system is unable to 
access attachments or webpages and we will need you to cut and paste 
plain text information, as opposed to html format or sending it as an 
attachment. We apologize for the inconvenience.
---

I really wonder if anyone is reading the mails at yahoo or
whether they just use a bot that sends back an canned answer based
on some key words. Otherwise someone would have noticed that
the logs i mentioned as being attached are missing.

Oh yes, since i send the log inline, i haven't heard back at all.

> If you're in a hosted environment, you might think about asking your
> host to implement domain keys and/or PGP-signing your mail.  (Mailman
> is (was?) not friendly to domain keys of non-owner posters, but in the
> case of an announcement list having the host sign the post should work
> fine.)

I don't know whether i should do domain keys. Sofar it was never
a problem that we got tagged as spamers, it might be worth it
if more ISPs start to filter based on these. PGP is definitly
not an option. We send out way over 100k mails per day over mailinglists
(at some days it reaches even 200k mails/d). Signing all of them on the
server would produce too much load.
 
				Attila Kinali

-- 
Praised are the Fountains of Shelieth, the silver harp of the waters,
But blest in my name forever this stream that stanched my thirst!
                         -- Deed of Morred

From attila at kinali.ch  Wed Feb 20 18:52:18 2008
From: attila at kinali.ch (Attila Kinali)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:52:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <873arnwn5t.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>
	<010c01c873d9$478364f0$d68a2ed0$@com>
	<20080220171344.5792af52.attila@kinali.ch>
	<00a201c873dc$7e594c80$7b0be580$@com>
	<873arnwn5t.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20080220185218.575bff5d.attila@kinali.ch>

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 02:30:38 +0900
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:

> Brian Carpenter writes:
> [ IIRC it was Attila Kinali who wrote: ]
> 
>  > > If yahoo wants to receive mails from my server (and i'm sure
>  > > they want because their users subscribed to my lists), then
>  > > they have to play nice like everyone else too.
>  > 
>  > I like your attitude!
> 
> You're welcome to like the attitude, but it's really just the flip
> side of Yahoo's.  The problem is spam, not Yahoo, and Yahoo serves a
> clientele that in general cares more about spam getting through when
> they don't want it than ham not getting through when they do want it.

You are right, the key problem is Spam. But the way yahoo behaves
is like the DDR (Problem: People are running away, Solution: errect
a wall and shot everyone who tries to get over it), it might seem
to be working for the higher ups, but if you really look at what
you are doing, you have to reallize that you are just making it worse.
 
Actualy, i'm not angry at them, because they try to get a solution
to the spam problem, but rather that they are also hitting legitimate
users and refuse to talk about possible solutions.

I care about the users of the mailinglists i manage. If i see
that anyone has a problem that might be on my side, i try to
contact them to figure out how to solve it. It was a lot of
work in the first months, but the result now is that our mail
setup works very well and that even strange and broken setups
on the receiving side have little or no effects.

I also made the observation, that if i, as a mail server admin,
contact an ISP about problems that might be on their side, that
they are very responsive and helpfull in finding a solution.

It's just yahoo that behaves like a black sheep in this game.

			Attila Kinali
-- 
Praised are the Fountains of Shelieth, the silver harp of the waters,
But blest in my name forever this stream that stanched my thirst!
                         -- Deed of Morred

From mwelch at redwoodalliance.org  Wed Feb 20 18:45:28 2008
From: mwelch at redwoodalliance.org (Michael Welch)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:45:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802200821520437e174bb49@msapiro>
References: <009d01c873c3$bfc95980$3f5c0c80$@com>
	<PC1760200802200821520437e174bb49@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080220175349.BD3E4131B1E@friskymail-a2.g.dreamhost.com>


Mark Sapiro wrote at 08:21 AM 2/20/2008:
 
>>Thanks for your reply.  I understand that ultimately it is a Yahoo problem
>>and ultimately something that will never be cured.  I was hoping since I
>>only run one small list that there was a "magic" switch that I could flip
>>that would get past Yahoo.
>
>
>If you are convinced that sending to only one Yahoo recipient per
>message will avoid the problem, set Non-digest options-> personalize
>to Yes. It doesn't have to be Full as another poster suggested, and
>you don't actually have to personalize any header or footer
>information. Setting personalize to Yes is enough to cause messages to
>be sent individually.
>
>If you don't see this option, you have to ask your provider to put
>
>OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
>
>in mm_cfg.py.

It even happens when sending to a single yahoo address.

I ran into this error message when sending an email to three people: one a yahoo account, one gmail, and the other was an account on our server. The email was sent yesterday, and the message was waiting for me this morning. 

- - - - - - - - - - - -
Michael Welch, volunteer
Redwood Alliance
PO Box 293
Arcata, CA 95518
707-822-7884
mwelch at redwoodalliance.org
www.redwoodalliance.org


From ddewey at cyberthugs.com  Wed Feb 20 19:18:03 2008
From: ddewey at cyberthugs.com (Dave Dewey)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:18:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <C3E17A51.53D44%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
References: <007501c873b9$01262440$03726cc0$@com>
	<C3E17A51.53D44%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <20080220181803.GE16717@huntingcow.cyberthugs.com>

Quoting Larry Stone (lstone19 at stonejongleux.com):

> > I'm not blaming Mailman...I'm just asking if there is something about
> > Mailman that I can change that will overcome this.  Changing anything about
> > Yahoo would be like changing heaven and earth.  Surely, someone else is
> > experiencing this issue.
> 
> Turn on VERP or full personalization. That will force mailman to generate a
> separate message for each recipient and Yahoo will see several messages each
> addresses to one recipient rather than one message addressed to multiple
> recipients.


VERP does not necessarily solve the issue.  I have VERP running on
my lists, and yahoo is still deferring me and delivering to the spam
box when they DO deliver.


dd

From cyndi at tikvah.com  Wed Feb 20 20:00:36 2008
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:00:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com> (rick@learntime.com)
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
Message-ID: <200802201900.m1KJ0aFR016203@a.mail.sonic.net>

   From: "Rick Harris" <rick at learntime.com>
   Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:15:58 -0600

   whateveraddress at yahoo.com R=lookuphost T=remote_smtp defer (0): SMTP error
   from remote mail server after initial connection: host g.mx.mail.yahoo.com
   [206.190.53.191]: 421 4.7.0 [TS02] Messages from 216.104.33.122 temporarily
   deferred due to user complaints - 4.16.56.1; see
   http://postmaster.yahoo.com/421-ts02.html

I've gotten this too with some incoming mail, but I don't have yahoo.  My
ISP participates in this.

While most of what they reject is probably spam (based on what a friend
says who provides DNS for a domain name of mine and forwards the email to
me; many are "caught" by my ISP), I've had a couple completely legit
private emails (not list mail) from friends get rejected too.

They tell me it isn't about user complaints about me.  It's that they are
matching the emails to a larger spam database.  But it makes no sense to me
since the legit emails that got rejected had no spam keywords and came from
normal domains (one from yahoo).

   Does anyone else have any experience with this, and is there something that
   I can do on my end that would help?  

I can tell you it has nothing to do with Mailman.

Cyndi


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Wed Feb 20 20:02:40 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:02:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>
Message-ID: <47BC7950.9080406@Media-Brokers.com>

On 2/20/2008, Brian Carpenter (brian at emwd.com) wrote:
> I think Yahoo should be sued for their interference of legitimate
> e-mail communications

Sorry, I just don;'t see this... they are providing a FREE service.

If you aren;t happy with it, go somewhere else.

What I would do if I were you is simply warn people about problematic 
email services, and let them know that their messages may be delayed, or 
even disappeared.

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From brian at emwd.com  Wed Feb 20 20:18:57 2008
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:18:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <47BC7950.9080406@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>
	<47BC7950.9080406@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <00cc01c873f5$728bb780$57a32680$@com>

> On 2/20/2008, Brian Carpenter (brian at emwd.com) wrote:
> > I think Yahoo should be sued for their interference of legitimate
> > e-mail communications
> 
> Sorry, I just don;'t see this... they are providing a FREE service.
> 
> If you aren;t happy with it, go somewhere else.
> 
> What I would do if I were you is simply warn people about problematic
> email services, and let them know that their messages may be delayed,
> or
> even disappeared.
> 
> --
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Charles
> ------------------------------------------------------

Since I am the ISP whose communications are being interfered with by yahoo,
I am not sure where I could go. I am not sure where you got the idea I was
using yahoo's services.

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"



From brian at emwd.com  Wed Feb 20 20:30:12 2008
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:30:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <873arnwn5t.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>	<010c01c873d9$478364f0$d68a2ed0$@com>	<20080220171344.5792af52.attila@kinali.ch>	<00a201c873dc$7e594c80$7b0be580$@com>
	<873arnwn5t.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <00cd01c873f7$0aa28ac0$1fe7a040$@com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen J. Turnbull [mailto:stephen at xemacs.org]> 
> You're welcome to like the attitude, but it's really just the flip
> side of Yahoo's.  The problem is spam, not Yahoo, and Yahoo serves a
> clientele that in general cares more about spam getting through when
> they don't want it than ham not getting through when they do want it.
> 
> If you really want to stick it to Yahoo, they claim that they respect
> authenticated mail.  PGP sign everything that goes through your
> server.  If they're serious about delivering mail that their users
> want, that had better be good enough.
> 
> Not-yet-caring-enough-to-sign-my-own-mail-ly y'rs,

Well we have been using domain keys as per yahoo's instructions and I
haven't seen any reductions in yahoo's deferrals.

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Wed Feb 20 21:21:34 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:21:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <00cc01c873f5$728bb780$57a32680$@com>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>
	<47BC7950.9080406@Media-Brokers.com>
	<00cc01c873f5$728bb780$57a32680$@com>
Message-ID: <47BC8BCE.306@Media-Brokers.com>

On 2/20/2008, Brian Carpenter (brian at emwd.com) wrote:
>>> I think Yahoo should be sued for their interference of legitimate
>>> e-mail communications

>> Sorry, I just don't see this... they are providing a FREE service.
>> 
>> If you aren't happy with it, go somewhere else.
>> 
>> What I would do if I were you is simply warn people about 
>> problematic email services, and let them know that their messages
>> may be delayed, or even disappeared.

> Since I am the ISP whose communications are being interfered with by 
> yahoo, I am not sure where I could go. I am not sure where you got
> the idea I was using yahoo's services.

Right... badly worded, but my last paragraph is still the meaning I 
intended to convey...

Maybe better:

No one has a 'Right' to talk to anyone else's mail server.

If they aren't playing well, document it: let anyone who uses your 
services know that if THEY choose to use a problematic service, that is 
their choice and their risk (of lost messages).

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Wed Feb 20 21:24:43 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:24:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <47BC3B4F.706@ualberta.ca>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>	<007001c873c2$4c2daa90$e488ffb0$@com>	<009d01c873c3$bfc95980$3f5c0c80$@com>
	<47BC3B4F.706@ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <47BC8C8B.5020402@Media-Brokers.com>

On 2/20/2008, Dennis Black (dblack at ualberta.ca) wrote:
> postfix/main.cf
> yahoo_destination_recipient_limit = 5          # matches Yahoo's limit
> yahoo_destination_concurreny_limit = 2

I may be wrong, but I don't think you can add comments like that, only 
on lines that START with a '#'... so it should be:

# matches Yahoo's limit
yahoo_destination_recipient_limit = 5

yahoo_destination_concurreny_limit = 2

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From dblack at ualberta.ca  Wed Feb 20 22:02:54 2008
From: dblack at ualberta.ca (Dennis Black)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:02:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <47BC8C8B.5020402@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>	<007001c873c2$4c2daa90$e488ffb0$@com>	<009d01c873c3$bfc95980$3f5c0c80$@com>	<47BC3B4F.706@ualberta.ca>
	<47BC8C8B.5020402@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <47BC957E.6020507@ualberta.ca>

Charles Marcus wrote:
> On 2/20/2008, Dennis Black (dblack at ualberta.ca) wrote:
>   
>> postfix/main.cf
>> yahoo_destination_recipient_limit = 5          # matches Yahoo's limit
>> yahoo_destination_concurreny_limit = 2
>>     
>
> I may be wrong, but I don't think you can add comments like that, only 
> on lines that START with a '#'... so it should be:
>
> # matches Yahoo's limit
> yahoo_destination_recipient_limit = 5
>
> yahoo_destination_concurrency_limit = 2
>
>   
It was for focusing purposes only, in the message only.

The 'yahoo_destination_recipient_limit = 5'  is the one that matches 
Yahoo's rules, not the block of two:
yahoo_destination_recipient_limit = 5
yahoo_destination_concurrency_limit = 2

Then why did I bother to show both?
In case someone wanted to mess with the numbers on their system... it 
was a quick-and-dirty-cut-and-paste...

Yahoo doesn't supply a concurrency limit number, but states that you 
should keep it low to be nice to
their resources.

The values don't matter anyway. It sounds like the Mailman admins who 
have written, have tried everything
and it hasn't made a difference.

-- 
Dennis Black
System Admin
Academic Information and Communication Technologies (AICT)
(780-)492-9329
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to which
it is addressed, and may contain confidential, personal, and/or
privileged information. Please contact us immediately if you are not
the intended recipient of this communication. If you are not the
intended recipient of this communication, do not copy, distribute,
or take action on it. Any communication received in error, or
subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Feb 21 00:48:38 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:48:38 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <20080220184150.c20819e0.attila@kinali.ch>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
	<8763wjwo2f.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20080220184150.c20819e0.attila@kinali.ch>
Message-ID: <87ve4jur3d.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Attila Kinali writes:

 > > This is just selective greylisting, which lots of sites use as a
 > > blanket policy.
 > 
 > It's definitly not greylisting. Our server sends out a few dozen mails
 > a day on the low traffic lists to a few hundred on the high traffic ones.
 > Any greylisting that is half way sanely implemented should know after
 > the second mail that the server is a legitimate sender.

Well, maybe.  That is harder than it sounds to scale, though.  The
problem is that Yahoo has a lot of MXes, each handling hundreds of
thousands or millions of messages per day, and they're going to need
to propagate the greylist database to all of them somehow.  It's a
solvable problem, but nontrivial.

If you're using exim -qff, you also may be running into a problem of
hammering on their MXes too frequently; many greylisting algorithms
don't like that.

BTW, do you think they're lying about the user complaints?

 > I'd rather say [Yahoo] have no clue at all. 

The problem that Yahoo faces is that not only is their hardware
distributed, so is their wetware.  It's a lot easier for one person to
handle a few clues about the easy problems that one person can handle
than for an organization to deal with many clues about the much harder
problems of scaling to Yahoo size.

 > I don't know whether i should do domain keys. Sofar it was never
 > a problem that we got tagged as spamers, it might be worth it
 > if more ISPs start to filter based on these. PGP is definitly
 > not an option. We send out way over 100k mails per day over mailinglists
 > (at some days it reaches even 200k mails/d). Signing all of them on the
 > server would produce too much load.

Domain keys are per-message cryptographic signatures, too.  And as for
200K mails per day, is that 200K *posts* per day, or more like 2000
posts per day going to 100 recipients each, or even better yet, 200
posts/day going to 1000 recipients each?  And which would you rather
do: save a few CPU cycles, or reliably get your mail through?  Maybe
the usual variants on PGP are too expensive, but something weaker will
do until the spammers catch on, by which time you can hope that
everybody has enough CPU, and so on.

I know that the conventional wisdom that signing mail is very
expensive is well-justified, but on the other hand you have to
remember that there's a difference between "very" and "too" expensive.

BTW, of course it turns out that Yahoo doesn't implement the standard
that it sponsored (DKIM), but rather its own legacy variant.  Why am I
not surprised?  :-(I don't know how compatible they are, either. :-( :-(

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Feb 21 00:52:29 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:52:29 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <20080220185218.575bff5d.attila@kinali.ch>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>
	<010c01c873d9$478364f0$d68a2ed0$@com>
	<20080220171344.5792af52.attila@kinali.ch>
	<00a201c873dc$7e594c80$7b0be580$@com>
	<873arnwn5t.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20080220185218.575bff5d.attila@kinali.ch>
Message-ID: <87tzk3uqwy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Attila Kinali writes:

 > It's just yahoo that behaves like a black sheep in this game.

But that's simply not true.  AOL has a deservedly bad reputation, as
does Hotmail.  I've had problems with a number of universities, as
well (deserved, in a sense, but it was damn hard to get off the ban
list once we got on).


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Feb 21 01:05:28 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:05:28 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <00cd01c873f7$0aa28ac0$1fe7a040$@com>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>
	<010c01c873d9$478364f0$d68a2ed0$@com>
	<20080220171344.5792af52.attila@kinali.ch>
	<00a201c873dc$7e594c80$7b0be580$@com>
	<873arnwn5t.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<00cd01c873f7$0aa28ac0$1fe7a040$@com>
Message-ID: <87skznuqbb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brian Carpenter writes:

 > Well we have been using domain keys as per yahoo's instructions and I
 > haven't seen any reductions in yahoo's deferrals.

Well, they don't promise that any of those measures will get your mail
through.  And, to be sure, if I were them, I would not count domain
keys as a way to improve a bad reputation, only as a way to preserve a
good one.

Are you getting the "deferral based on customer complaints"?  If so,
do you think they're lying about that, or something?  (I'm not
claiming that you or any of your clients are spamming, and I don't
really care whether Yahoo customers are on average dumber than a
fencepost; the question is about Yahoo procedures.)

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 21 01:12:18 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:12:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <87ve4jur3d.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802201612180828aa071e6e@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Attila Kinali writes:
>
> > > This is just selective greylisting, which lots of sites use as a
> > > blanket policy.
> > 
> > It's definitly not greylisting. Our server sends out a few dozen mails
> > a day on the low traffic lists to a few hundred on the high traffic ones.
> > Any greylisting that is half way sanely implemented should know after
> > the second mail that the server is a legitimate sender.
>
>Well, maybe.  That is harder than it sounds to scale, though.  The
>problem is that Yahoo has a lot of MXes, each handling hundreds of
>thousands or millions of messages per day, and they're going to need
>to propagate the greylist database to all of them somehow.  It's a
>solvable problem, but nontrivial.


It may not be greylisting per se, but it actually doesn't seem to be a
problem for my MTA. In response to this thread, I looked in my maillog
and I see about 2500 of the "421 4.7.0 [TS01]" messages in the last
month. I don't see any "421 4.7.0 [TS02]" messages. As far as I can
tell, every one of these was eventually delivered, some almost
immediately to a different MX, some a few hours later after several
retries and some in between.

I wonder if Rick actually has a problem with undelivered (as opposed to
delayed) mail, or if his hosting company is just concerned about the
log messages and retries.

Also, the messages I see, and the message Rick posted all seem to come
in response to the initial connect. Thus, Rick's hosting company
should be looking at themselve rather than Rick's list since it is
apparently the connect from the IP that is being delayed, not list
mail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Feb 21 01:32:40 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:32:40 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <47BC8BCE.306@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>
	<47BC7950.9080406@Media-Brokers.com>
	<00cc01c873f5$728bb780$57a32680$@com>
	<47BC8BCE.306@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <87r6f7up1z.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Charles Marcus writes:

 > No one has a 'Right' to talk to anyone else's mail server.

Everybody here concedes that, I think.

 > If they aren't playing well, document it: let anyone who uses your 
 > services know that if THEY choose to use a problematic service, that is 
 > their choice and their risk (of lost messages).

But the problem is that *Brian* (as an example) is an ISP whose
reliability comes into question not because *his* customers use Yahoo,
but because *his customers'* customers (subscribers, whatever) use
Yahoo.  His customers are paying him money so that he takes care of
the mail; they do not want to tell their customers to change their
mail services.

Worst of all, if spam gets through, it's definitely Yahoo's fault
(although shared with everybody else in the pipeline); they *could*
have stopped it, for sure.  But if mail delivery is poor, you get
fingers pointing in every direction, and Yahoo is quite justified in
claiming that even if they make their best effort, they can't deliver
mail that got lost somewhere else.  Yahoo's customers are going to be
disposed to believe that the problem is indeed elsewhere (the
alternative is accepting their own responsibility for choosing a
broken service, you see).

So Brian (and other ISPs/hosting services like his) is caught in the
middle.  He can't guarantee reliability because that depends on the
customers' customer base, but reliability is what he takes pride in.


From brian at emwd.com  Thu Feb 21 01:31:10 2008
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:31:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <87r6f7up1z.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>	<47BC7950.9080406@Media-Brokers.com>	<00cc01c873f5$728bb780$57a32680$@com>	<47BC8BCE.306@Media-Brokers.com>
	<87r6f7up1z.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <012501c87421$10267e00$30737a00$@com>

Stephen you are my hero!

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
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Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org [mailto:mailman-
> users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Stephen J.
> Turnbull
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:33 PM
> To: Charles Marcus
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
> 
> Charles Marcus writes:
> 
>  > No one has a 'Right' to talk to anyone else's mail server.
> 
> Everybody here concedes that, I think.
> 
>  > If they aren't playing well, document it: let anyone who uses your
>  > services know that if THEY choose to use a problematic service, that
> is
>  > their choice and their risk (of lost messages).
> 
> But the problem is that *Brian* (as an example) is an ISP whose
> reliability comes into question not because *his* customers use Yahoo,
> but because *his customers'* customers (subscribers, whatever) use
> Yahoo.  His customers are paying him money so that he takes care of
> the mail; they do not want to tell their customers to change their
> mail services.
> 
> Worst of all, if spam gets through, it's definitely Yahoo's fault
> (although shared with everybody else in the pipeline); they *could*
> have stopped it, for sure.  But if mail delivery is poor, you get
> fingers pointing in every direction, and Yahoo is quite justified in
> claiming that even if they make their best effort, they can't deliver
> mail that got lost somewhere else.  Yahoo's customers are going to be
> disposed to believe that the problem is indeed elsewhere (the
> alternative is accepting their own responsibility for choosing a
> broken service, you see).
> 
> So Brian (and other ISPs/hosting services like his) is caught in the
> middle.  He can't guarantee reliability because that depends on the
> customers' customer base, but reliability is what he takes pride in.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-
> users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
> users/brian%40emwd.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-
> mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From brian at emwd.com  Thu Feb 21 01:42:53 2008
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:42:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <87skznuqbb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>	<010c01c873d9$478364f0$d68a2ed0$@com>	<20080220171344.5792af52.attila@kinali.ch>	<00a201c873dc$7e594c80$7b0be580$@com>	<873arnwn5t.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>	<00cd01c873f7$0aa28ac0$1fe7a040$@com>
	<87skznuqbb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <012601c87422$b31afea0$1950fbe0$@com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen J. Turnbull [mailto:stephen at xemacs.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:05 PM
> To: Brian Carpenter
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
> 
> Brian Carpenter writes:
> 
>  > Well we have been using domain keys as per yahoo's instructions and
> I
>  > haven't seen any reductions in yahoo's deferrals.
> 
> Well, they don't promise that any of those measures will get your mail
> through.  And, to be sure, if I were them, I would not count domain
> keys as a way to improve a bad reputation, only as a way to preserve a
> good one.
> 
> Are you getting the "deferral based on customer complaints"?  If so,
> do you think they're lying about that, or something?  (I'm not
> claiming that you or any of your clients are spamming, and I don't
> really care whether Yahoo customers are on average dumber than a
> fencepost; the question is about Yahoo procedures.)

Yes, I am seeing "deferral based on customer complaints" messages as well as
just a plain vanilla "temporarily deferred" messages. As I stated earlier, I
received 3 different responses in the same message batch from Yahoo.

As for customer complaints, I would not be able to tell since Yahoo makes it
just about impossible to get on their feedback loop program. Believe me AOL
is a breeze to work with in comparison to Yahoo. All I know is based upon
AOL's feedback, not having any of my IPs blacklisted, not hearing anything
from my datacenter (who is pretty quick to let me know if something is out
of the ordinary in regards to my outgoing mail) and being able to deliver to
all the other major e-mail providers such as hotmail, gmail, etc, I do not
have a spam problem. So though I am not willing to say Yahoo is lying, I
think that they have some serious problems with their mail servers that they
are not letting others know about. However I am merely speculating here.


Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"


From gmillerd at gmail.com  Thu Feb 21 01:44:14 2008
From: gmillerd at gmail.com (Gabriel Millerd)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:44:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802201612180828aa071e6e@msapiro>
References: <87ve4jur3d.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<PC1760200802201612180828aa071e6e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <8f551a650802201644s3de79ad2h10de0a583d766f4c@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 6:12 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

>  Also, the messages I see, and the message Rick posted all seem to come
>  in response to the initial connect. Thus, Rick's hosting company
>  should be looking at themselve rather than Rick's list since it is
>  apparently the connect from the IP that is being delayed, not list
>  mail.
>

Well the OP said the messages were deferred, the link the log gives
(which everyone is aware of) seems to describe greylisting. In my
experience the greylisting is sort of weak in that its not *.yahoo.com
but just server by server for quite a while. Likely this is by design.

I dont see a problem if the messages are deferred, but if he says they
are all disappearing (though I would assume this means his upstream is
just killing them off out of the queue) then there is a problem. But
then he would get bounces from yahoo killing them, not nice legal
defer messages.

-- 
Gabriel Millerd

From gmillerd at gmail.com  Thu Feb 21 01:50:43 2008
From: gmillerd at gmail.com (Gabriel Millerd)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:50:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <012601c87422$b31afea0$1950fbe0$@com>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>
	<010c01c873d9$478364f0$d68a2ed0$@com>
	<20080220171344.5792af52.attila@kinali.ch>
	<00a201c873dc$7e594c80$7b0be580$@com>
	<873arnwn5t.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<00cd01c873f7$0aa28ac0$1fe7a040$@com>
	<87skznuqbb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<012601c87422$b31afea0$1950fbe0$@com>
Message-ID: <8f551a650802201650h64deb0bw87ae90103d8326ec@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 6:42 PM, Brian Carpenter <brian at emwd.com> wrote:
>
>  As for customer complaints, I would not be able to tell since Yahoo makes it
>  just about impossible to get on their feedback loop program. Believe me AOL
>

  Couldnt this just be an issue of people on the list marking the
email as SPAM or the mail finding its way into the Bulk mail folder
for the yahoo, sbc/ameritech, etc domains?

There are plenty of people that have this issue with forgot password
reminders, account activations and what not with yahoo (according to
google search). This seems reasonable rather than them actual accusing
you of spamming.
-- 
Gabriel Millerd

From brian at emwd.com  Thu Feb 21 01:54:54 2008
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:54:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <8f551a650802201650h64deb0bw87ae90103d8326ec@mail.gmail.com>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>	
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>	
	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>	
	<010c01c873d9$478364f0$d68a2ed0$@com>	
	<20080220171344.5792af52.attila@kinali.ch>	
	<00a201c873dc$7e594c80$7b0be580$@com>	
	<873arnwn5t.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>	
	<00cd01c873f7$0aa28ac0$1fe7a040$@com>	
	<87skznuqbb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>	
	<012601c87422$b31afea0$1950fbe0$@com>
	<8f551a650802201650h64deb0bw87ae90103d8326ec@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <014601c87424$60b8af20$222a0d60$@com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gabriel Millerd [mailto:gmillerd at gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:51 PM
> To: Brian Carpenter; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
> 
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 6:42 PM, Brian Carpenter <brian at emwd.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >  As for customer complaints, I would not be able to tell since Yahoo
> makes it
> >  just about impossible to get on their feedback loop program. Believe
> me AOL
> >
> 
>   Couldnt this just be an issue of people on the list marking the
> email as SPAM or the mail finding its way into the Bulk mail folder
> for the yahoo, sbc/ameritech, etc domains?
> 
> There are plenty of people that have this issue with forgot password
> reminders, account activations and what not with yahoo (according to
> google search). This seems reasonable rather than them actual accusing
> you of spamming.
> --
> Gabriel Millerd

I don't know since I can't get Yahoo to communicate with me, that is outside of them deferring e-mail from my servers and their generic email communications.

I find it very problematic when a large ISP such as AOL and Yahoo allows their users to define what is spam is and what is not.

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 21 01:58:11 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:58:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <87skznuqbb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC17602008022016581101257367a488@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>
>Are you getting the "deferral based on customer complaints"?  If so,
>do you think they're lying about that, or something?  (I'm not
>claiming that you or any of your clients are spamming, and I don't
>really care whether Yahoo customers are on average dumber than a
>fencepost; the question is about Yahoo procedures.)


Note: The following is an incoherent rant from a deranged and totally
frusted person. You've been warned.

I'm getting the "deferral based on customer complaints" message. I
looked it up on Yahoo's web site, and I followed a link to "Does
Yahoo! Mail offer a feedback loop program to help senders minimize
complaint rates?". I thought "good, I can sign up and find out who's
reporting my mail as spam". Then I read further and found "To
participate in the program, senders must sign their outbound emails
with DomainKeys (DKIM is not currently supported)."

This is the second time in recent weeks that some large mail service
has used it's 600 lb. gorilla status to try to coerce me into
something, and I don't like it.

Actually, I don't care that much about Yahoo, because they do seem to
accept my mail. My real complaint is with Microsoft and Hotmail.
Several weeks ago, Hotmail started discarding some of my list mail,
this quickly escalated from some to most to all. Note that they didn't
reject it. Their MXs accepted it, but it never got delivered to any
recipient, regardless of any whitelisting the recipients applied.

I eventually found my way to <https://support.msn.com/default.aspx> and
submitted a report via the form linked as "Sender Information for
Hotmail Delivery". I got a response to that (to their credit, they
always responded) suggesting I add SPF records in DNS (more 600 lb.
gorilla tactics), and giving me a hotmail.com address to send sample
messages to, and requesting that I inform the responder of the subject
header of any messages I send.

I tried to do this. I don't know what happened to the message I sent to
the hotmail.com address, but my reply to the support rep bounced per

Action: failed
Status: 5.1.0
Diagnostic-Code: smtp;554 5.1.0 Sender Denied

I took great pains to always use my postmaster address in reports and
replies. I went through several iterations of submitting forms,
receiving replies and being unable to respond to the follow-up
questions in the replies (always with the same reject as above).

Also, at one point after putting SPF records in DNS, I tried to send an
email per something I found on the support site to inform them of the
domains (I can no longer find this instruction - I think it's been
replaced by yet another web form). Here is the email I sent in it's
entirety.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Return-path: <mark at msapiro.net>
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1])
	by msapiro.net with esmtp (Exim 4.62)
	(envelope-from <mark at msapiro.net>)
	id JW535E-00003K-OA
	for senderid at microsoft.com; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:53:38 -0800
Message-ID: <47B1EB32.80602 at msapiro.net>
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:53:38 -0800
From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Organization: Not Very Much
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: senderid at microsoft.com
Subject: SPF records updated
X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

grizz.org
msapiro.net
sbh16.songbird.com

-------------------------------------------------------------------

And the ironic thing is here's what happened when my MTA tried to send
it.

    SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data:
    host mailb.microsoft.com [131.107.115.215]: 550 5.7.1 <Your e-mail
was rejected by an anti-spam content filter on gateway
(131.107.115.215). Reasons for rejection may be:
    obscene language, graphics, or spam-like characteristics. Removing
these may let the e-mail through the filter.>

Ultimately, I started submitting the web forms describing the problem
as an inability to respond to follow-up information requests on
outstanding tickets. This got someone's attention, and I am currently
(temporarily) on a mitigation whitelist which is supposed to allow
time for the filters to retrain.

We'll see.

If you read this far, thanks for listening. I don't expect any advice
(but if you have some, I'm interested). I've just been so frustrated
by this process that I had to vent a bit.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 21 02:22:51 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:22:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <014601c87424$60b8af20$222a0d60$@com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802201722510343641945aa@msapiro>

Brian Carpenter wrote:
>
>I find it very problematic when a large ISP such as AOL and Yahoo allows their users to define what is spam is and what is not.


Well, in one sense, only the final recipient can determine what is spam
and what is not, but I certainly agree that providing a "this is spam"
button that a user can click by accident or for any number of spurious
reasons, and then using that click to label the sending server as a
(possible, probable, ?) spam source is fraught with difficulty.

I would hope that any service that does this would make it simple for
senders to get reports of this so they can try to address people's
problems. I think AOL does, although I haven't tried to sign up for
their feedback loop.

Certainly Yahoo doesn't seem to make it easy (although I just submitted
their request form, we'll see), and it is not easy (so far impossible
for me) to get on Microsoft's Junk Mail Reporting Partner program.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Feb 21 02:44:00 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:44:00 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008022016581101257367a488@msapiro>
References: <87skznuqbb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<PC17602008022016581101257367a488@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87odabulr3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > Then I read further and found "To participate in the program,
 > senders must sign their outbound emails with DomainKeys (DKIM is
 > not currently supported)."
 > 
 > This is the second time in recent weeks that some large mail service
 > has used it's 600 lb. gorilla status to try to coerce me into
 > something, and I don't like it.

C'mon, Mark, you know that the only problem here is that there's no
accepted standard; they have to authenticate "you" somehow (do you
really want me to be able to spoof you and get information about your
mail to Yahoo customers?), and the right "you" to authenticate is the
apparent source of allegedly objectionable mail.  So it's going to be
SPF or DomainKeys or something like that.

But you've identified the problem correctly (in more ways than one).
600lb gorillas don't move very fast most of the time, but once they do
get in motion they're terrifying.

Sorry to say, I don't think there's much chance the gorillas are going
to slim down, either.  There are too many advantages to being big in
this industry.

From brian at emwd.com  Thu Feb 21 02:36:03 2008
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:36:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802201722510343641945aa@msapiro>
References: <014601c87424$60b8af20$222a0d60$@com>
	<PC1760200802201722510343641945aa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <015101c8742a$20ca81d0$625f8570$@com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 8:23 PM
> To: Brian Carpenter; 'Gabriel Millerd'; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
> 
> Brian Carpenter wrote:
> >
> >I find it very problematic when a large ISP such as AOL and Yahoo
> allows their users to define what is spam is and what is not.
> 
> 
> Well, in one sense, only the final recipient can determine what is spam
> and what is not, but I certainly agree that providing a "this is spam"
> button that a user can click by accident or for any number of spurious
> reasons, and then using that click to label the sending server as a
> (possible, probable, ?) spam source is fraught with difficulty.

This wouldn't be a problem if they just applied a filter to that person's
e-mail address but to block an server's IP from sending any e-mail to all
their users? <shudders>

The really bad situation is when an e-mail forwarder that is setup on my
server that forwards both legitimate mail and spam (when it makes it through
my anti-spam system) to their AOL or Yahoo account and the user then clicks
that wicked "spam" button and inadvertently reports my server as a source of
spam. It's a tragic case of mistaken identity and none of the major e-mail
providers are willing to come up with a system that doesn't target the
middle man.


> I would hope that any service that does this would make it simple for
> senders to get reports of this so they can try to address people's
> problems. I think AOL does, although I haven't tried to sign up for
> their feedback loop.

AOL is very easy to get on their feedback loop and they have at least
demonstrated a willingness to work with a mail administrator.

> Certainly Yahoo doesn't seem to make it easy (although I just submitted
> their request form, we'll see), and it is not easy (so far impossible
> for me) to get on Microsoft's Junk Mail Reporting Partner program.
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

Wait till you get Yahoo's response asking you to add every single domain
name you want a report on, to a text file along with its domainkeys. For a
hosting company that hosts thousands of domains, such a request is
ridiculous. AOL does it by the IP address not by domain.

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 21 02:53:23 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:53:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <87odabulr3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC17602008022017532308755a7169c2@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Mark Sapiro writes:
>
> > Then I read further and found "To participate in the program,
> > senders must sign their outbound emails with DomainKeys (DKIM is
> > not currently supported)."
> > 
> > This is the second time in recent weeks that some large mail service
> > has used it's 600 lb. gorilla status to try to coerce me into
> > something, and I don't like it.
>
>C'mon, Mark, you know that the only problem here is that there's no
>accepted standard; they have to authenticate "you" somehow (do you
>really want me to be able to spoof you and get information about your
>mail to Yahoo customers?), and the right "you" to authenticate is the
>apparent source of allegedly objectionable mail.  So it's going to be
>SPF or DomainKeys or something like that.


That's not what I understood it to say. I understand they need to
authenticate me somehow as the person authorized to receive reports
about my mail to yahoo.com recipients, but I thought it said that in
order for me to participate in the feedback program at all, my mail to
yahoo.com recipients had to be signed with DomainKeys.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From justbrits at comcast.net  Thu Feb 21 03:40:25 2008
From: justbrits at comcast.net (JB@comcast)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:40:25 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
References: <014601c87424$60b8af20$222a0d60$@com><PC1760200802201722510343641945aa@msapiro>
	<015101c8742a$20ca81d0$625f8570$@com>
Message-ID: <011b01c87433$1d9ad6a0$6501a8c0@actualshop>

<<AOL does it by the IP address not by domain.>>

I thought so Brian, so AAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGG!!!!!

And I only have prob with ONE aol'er (who HAS a comcast account but keeps forgetting his comcast password!!!).  So periodically I have top open a Service Ticket with my provider and ask them to RE-contact (POS) aol.<sigh>

Goog thing is tho, only 3 or 4 times a YEAR!!!<G>

Ed

From turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp  Thu Feb 21 04:50:52 2008
From: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:50:52 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <015101c8742a$20ca81d0$625f8570$@com>
References: <014601c87424$60b8af20$222a0d60$@com>
	<PC1760200802201722510343641945aa@msapiro>
	<015101c8742a$20ca81d0$625f8570$@com>
Message-ID: <87mypvufvn.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brian Carpenter writes:

 > This wouldn't be a problem if they just applied a filter to that person's
 > e-mail address but to block an server's IP from sending any e-mail to all
 > their users? <shudders>

Hold that shudder ...

 > and none of the major e-mail providers are willing to come up with
 > a system that doesn't target the middle man.

That's because an *effective* system *must* target the middleman.
(Well, it could target *their* customers.  Not likely, right?)  It's
not possible to target the ultimate source (without widespread use of
strong authentification by the good guys -- but both you and Mark have
objected to plausible implementations of that in this thread); that's
like trying to target the Milky Way galaxy with a spitball.

Just read the FAQ for this list.  You will find Brad Knowles (a
recognized expert on the subject) advising over and over again that to
keep spam out of your users' mailboxes, you need to stop it before it
reaches your server.  And the only way to do that (that you can
implement in your own servers) is to refuse suspicious mail.

Full circle.

Granted, Brad himself often criticizes the implementation at AOL,
Yahoo, et al.  But the underlying strategy is the same.  "Stop spam as
far upstream as you can."

 > Wait till you get Yahoo's response asking you to add every single domain
 > name you want a report on, to a text file along with its domainkeys. For a
 > hosting company that hosts thousands of domains, such a request is
 > ridiculous.

... do you still have that shudder?  Here comes the punchline! ...

 > AOL does it by the IP address not by domain.

You can't have it both ways.  If AOL's database is organized by IP,
when you get filtered, you will get filtered by IP.  If you want Yahoo
to distinguish your "diligent" (and/or "lucky") domains from the less
so, you're going to have to give them domain keys so the good ones
can't be spoofed by the bad ones (or worse, by the bad guys
themselves).

You don't have to like it; I don't like it at all.  But it's not very
useful to propose that the 600-lb gorillas "stop targeting the
middlemen," nor to complain about gorillas that ask for authentication
of every domain that wants to clear its reputation with the simians'
systems.  Not until we can provide an alternative that looks like it
might work.

I for one don't have one.



From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Feb 21 07:11:49 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:11:49 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008022017532308755a7169c2@msapiro>
References: <87odabulr3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<PC17602008022017532308755a7169c2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87lk5evnx6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > That's not what I understood it to say. I understand they need to
 > authenticate me somehow as the person authorized to receive reports
 > about my mail to yahoo.com recipients, but I thought it said that in
 > order for me to participate in the feedback program at all, my mail to
 > yahoo.com recipients had to be signed with DomainKeys.

Right.  The domainkey that you use to ask for the reports needs to
be the same one that you use to send list posts to the Yahoo recips.
That's how you identify yourself as the admin of those lists.  Am I
missing something?

Yes, I do hate spammers for doing this to us.


From dbgsystems2 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 21 07:08:08 2008
From: dbgsystems2 at gmail.com (Darragh Gammell)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:08:08 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get_content_type() takes exactly 1 argument (2
	given)
Message-ID: <bdffd0680802202208l7639c0ceg18b4e0d8dc6a6162@mail.gmail.com>

 Hi

I keep seeing this error in my mailman error logs.
I've tried googling it for reasons but to no avail.

Anyone seen it before/have a reason.

Feb 21 17:03:21 2008 (16810) SHUNTING:
1176744092.7541261+83406355fa8fca831709ca6993e45b1b8763a180
Feb 21 17:03:25 2008 (16810) Uncaught runner exception: get_content_type()
takes exactly 1 argument (2 given)
Feb 21 17:03:25 2008 (16810) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
_dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
_dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 91, in process
    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in
send_digests
    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306, in
send_i18n_digests
    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 177, in process
    if ctype == 'text/plain':
TypeError: get_content_type() takes exactly 1 argument (2 given)

Feb 21 17:03:25 2008 (16810) SHUNTING:
1176751776.884974+121ed930b09df2e15bc8390b3ab74317a382467c

Thanks in advance

Darragh

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Feb 21 06:20:39 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:20:39 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <8763wjwo2f.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
	<8763wjwo2f.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240800c3e2b48665d2@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/21/08, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>  If you're in a hosted environment, you might think about asking your
>  host to implement domain keys and/or PGP-signing your mail.  (Mailman
>  is (was?) not friendly to domain keys of non-owner posters, but in the
>  case of an announcement list having the host sign the post should work
>  fine.)

Using PGP is not going to help, but DomainKeys may.  The 
administrator of the mail server in question could also sign up for 
the Yahoo! "feedback loop" mechanism (see 
<http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/mail/postmaster/postmaster-30.html>).


I've recently started working at the University of Texas at Austin, 
and it looks like I'm going to be doing some of their postmaster 
work.  I've been trying to get our mail servers signed up for various 
feedback loop mechanisms at major providers around the world, as well 
as subscribed to at least one or two "bonded sender" type programs. 
We're one of the largest public research Universities in the world 
with ~50,000 students and ~20,000 faculty and staff, and I can tell 
you from first hand experience that this is a painful process.

I filed our request with Yahoo!, but have not yet heard anything 
back.  We're on the AOL feedback loop, and getting quite a lot of 
reports about our users, many of which are hitting the "report as 
spam" button for messages that were forwarded to them from their 
mail.utexas.edu account, which means that AOL thinks we're sending 
them spam, when in fact we're just forwarding mail for a given user, 
which just happens to be spam.

We're also on the feedback loop for TimeWarner/RoadRunner, discovered 
that Gmail doesn't have any such service, and the people at 
NetZero/UnitedOnline really have no clue -- they don't get the fact 
that UT actually is their own ISP, we are our own phone company, we 
are our own power company, we are basically our own city and we 
provide all of our own various services, for a mid-size city 
community of about 70,000 people.

Oh, and Windows Live (you can't call it Hotmail anymore) requires 
that you have a registered Windows Live ID before you can sign up for 
their equivalent "Smart Network Data Services" program.


One problem with trying to get on all the various feedback loop 
processes, and obtaining service from a bonded sender program, is 
that they all have different requirements.  Some require SPF, some 
require Sender ID, some require DomainKeys, some require DKIM, some 
require that you sign up for service with 
ReturnPath/SenderScoreCertified, some require Habeas, some require 
GoodMail, and some require service with any of several other such 
services.

No one can do all of these things, and many people find it difficult 
enough to do just one or two.  This is turning into a situation worse 
than TMDA, where the recipient site can't be bothered to do any real 
work themselves, so they force everyone else to do their work for 
them.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Feb 21 06:27:11 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:27:11 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <20080220184150.c20819e0.attila@kinali.ch>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
	<8763wjwo2f.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20080220184150.c20819e0.attila@kinali.ch>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3e2bb0ded76@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/20/08, Attila Kinali wrote:

>>  This is just selective greylisting, which lots of sites use as a
>>  blanket policy.
>
>  It's definitly not greylisting. Our server sends out a few dozen mails
>  a day on the low traffic lists to a few hundred on the high traffic ones.
>  Any greylisting that is half way sanely implemented should know after
>  the second mail that the server is a legitimate sender.

Yahoo! has demonstrated that they don't understand the greylisting 
concept anyway, so this is unlikely.  They use a shared pool of 
outbound messages through all of their outbound mail servers, so 
you're pretty much guaranteed that the same message will never be 
touched by the same machine twice.

This ensures that their outbound mail will never be received by a 
site that implements a strict per-machine greylisting policy.  Only a 
looser network-level greylisting policy, will have any chance of 
working with Yahoo, and even then it won't work very well -- they 
just have too many outbound machines on too many different networks.

>  I don't know whether i should do domain keys. Sofar it was never
>  a problem that we got tagged as spamers, it might be worth it
>  if more ISPs start to filter based on these. PGP is definitly
>  not an option. We send out way over 100k mails per day over mailinglists
>  (at some days it reaches even 200k mails/d). Signing all of them on the
>  server would produce too much load.

This is the fundamental problem with creating or verifying all crypto 
signatures of all mail passing through a server.  You've got a really 
nice self-DDoS attack there, created for us by the nice authors of 
the DomainKeys and DKIM proposals.

This has been tried before, and failed, for the same reason.  Do some 
Googling on the term "pgpsendmail".

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Feb 21 06:33:08 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:33:08 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <87tzk3uqwy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>
	<010c01c873d9$478364f0$d68a2ed0$@com>
	<20080220171344.5792af52.attila@kinali.ch>
	<00a201c873dc$7e594c80$7b0be580$@com>
	<873arnwn5t.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20080220185218.575bff5d.attila@kinali.ch>
	<87tzk3uqwy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240802c3e2bcd45805@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/21/08, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>  > It's just yahoo that behaves like a black sheep in this game.
>
>  But that's simply not true.  AOL has a deservedly bad reputation, as
>  does Hotmail.  I've had problems with a number of universities, as
>  well (deserved, in a sense, but it was damn hard to get off the ban
>  list once we got on).

Actually, fighting spam is one area where AOL has historically done 
pretty well.  I know that it was the biggest part of my job when I 
was the Sr. Internet Mail System Administrator there, and I took my 
job very seriously.  We did a lot of things to prevent our customers 
from spamming, and we did a lot of things to try to protect them from 
getting spam.  We also set up the feedback loop mechanism (and I 
think AOL was the first site to create such a thing), so that admins 
at other sites around the world could get reports about what was 
happening through their mail servers.

Where AOL has fallen down is by making the "Report as Spam" button 
far too easy to hit, and doesn't require any kind of confirmation or 
anything.

And they don't give any negative feedback to their users when they 
just hit the "Report as Spam" button when they are actually getting 
mail that they really did ask for, but they're just being stupid.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Feb 21 06:39:35 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:39:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <015101c8742a$20ca81d0$625f8570$@com>
References: <014601c87424$60b8af20$222a0d60$@com>
	<PC1760200802201722510343641945aa@msapiro>
	<015101c8742a$20ca81d0$625f8570$@com>
Message-ID: <p06240803c3e2be7dbb8a@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/20/08, Brian Carpenter wrote:

>  The really bad situation is when an e-mail forwarder that is setup on my
>  server that forwards both legitimate mail and spam (when it makes it through
>  my anti-spam system) to their AOL or Yahoo account and the user then clicks
>  that wicked "spam" button and inadvertently reports my server as a source of
>  spam. It's a tragic case of mistaken identity and none of the major e-mail
>  providers are willing to come up with a system that doesn't target the
>  middle man.

Yup.  I had one of these today.  This is not the first time we've had 
this problem with this particular account, and in my reply to the AOL 
postmaster this time I told them that future complaints of this sort 
may result in that users account getting terminated.  I made sure to 
send copies to both our internal address and their AOL account.

I won't have our mail servers reputation dirtied by morons who can't 
tell the difference between the "Delete" button and the "Report as 
spam" button.  If they want to keep that mail.utexas.edu account and 
have it forward their mail somewhere outside of our system, then they 
had damn well better be careful with that "Report as spam" button.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Feb 21 06:42:01 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:42:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <87odabulr3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <87skznuqbb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<PC17602008022016581101257367a488@msapiro>
	<87odabulr3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240804c3e2bf2ee523@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/21/08, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>  C'mon, Mark, you know that the only problem here is that there's no
>  accepted standard; they have to authenticate "you" somehow (do you
>  really want me to be able to spoof you and get information about your
>  mail to Yahoo customers?), and the right "you" to authenticate is the
>  apparent source of allegedly objectionable mail.  So it's going to be
>  SPF or DomainKeys or something like that.

But SPF (and similar technologies) and DomainKeys (and similar 
technologies) are both inherently broken in the general case.  Sure, 
there are specific cases where sites like BankOfAmerica.com can use 
them (and to everyone's benefit), but they're too easy to set up 
incorrectly (on both sides), and they break too many other parts of 
how e-mail is supposed to work.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Feb 21 06:53:58 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:53:58 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <87mypvufvn.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <014601c87424$60b8af20$222a0d60$@com>
	<PC1760200802201722510343641945aa@msapiro>
	<015101c8742a$20ca81d0$625f8570$@com>
	<87mypvufvn.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240805c3e2bfe51013@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/21/08, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>  Granted, Brad himself often criticizes the implementation at AOL,
>  Yahoo, et al.  But the underlying strategy is the same.  "Stop spam as
>  far upstream as you can."

Yeah, but SPF/SenderID and DKIM/DomainKeys are not the right tools to 
be forcing everyone else in the industry to be using to achieve this 
goal.  You might as well force everyone to use only 24lb 
sledgehammers when they want to fasten any two objects together, and 
ignore all other fastening technologies like screws, glue, etc....

The DKIM guys did their homework -- they identified the weaknesses in 
SPF, and they found ways to avoid pretty much all of them.  Problem 
is, they brought out the crypto-nuclear weapons to use against the 
spammers, and they forgot that the spammers are like cockroaches, and 
they're the only ones who'll be left on this planet when the nuclear 
weapons actually get used.

>  You can't have it both ways.  If AOL's database is organized by IP,
>  when you get filtered, you will get filtered by IP.  If you want Yahoo
>  to distinguish your "diligent" (and/or "lucky") domains from the less
>  so, you're going to have to give them domain keys so the good ones
>  can't be spoofed by the bad ones (or worse, by the bad guys
>  themselves).

I don't think you can effectively protect these assets by domain. 
Among other things, there are far too many places out there that 
might have a valid need to send e-mail on my behalf, using my 
address, and any domain-level protection mechanism would almost 
certainly break that aspect of e-mail.  There go all your e-mail 
greeting cards, there go all your e-mail notifications of birthdays 
or other events, and a whole host of other things.


You can't even protect these assets completely by IP address.  If the 
spammers can get friendly with an ISP so that they can advertise 
bogus routes to your network, then they can send out mail from their 
machines using your IP addresses, and all your IP-based security 
mechanisms go out the window.

The mail will be treated by the other end as if it really had been 
sent by your mail servers, and then they'll go away in five minutes. 
But the damage has already been done -- the spam has been sent, and 
someone else has been blamed.  And all those ephemeral routing 
advertisements never get logged anywhere, so no one would ever know 
that it wasn't really you that was sending e-mail from that IP 
address.

>  You don't have to like it; I don't like it at all.  But it's not very
>  useful to propose that the 600-lb gorillas "stop targeting the
>  middlemen," nor to complain about gorillas that ask for authentication
>  of every domain that wants to clear its reputation with the simians'
>  systems.

I don't mind them targeting the middleman.  I just want them to 
target using the appropriate tools.

I want them to have enough intelligence to know when a user has set 
up forwarding on our system to their system, so that when a spam 
message comes in and the user clicks "report as spam", they can look 
through the headers of the message and avoid blaming us for sending 
spam to that user, because we were actually just doing what the user 
asked us to do.

The alternative is to just refuse to forward e-mail anymore.  And I 
don't really like that.


Oh, and btw, this also affects mailing lists, because all the 
low-level mechanisms for forwarding e-mail are functionally identical 
to operating a mailing list.

>                Not until we can provide an alternative that looks like it
>  might work.

They've got the money.  Let them pay to come up with something that 
will actually work.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From submit at zuka.net  Thu Feb 21 07:30:32 2008
From: submit at zuka.net (Dave Filchak)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:30:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not sending mail to list members
Message-ID: <47BD1A88.5090808@zuka.net>

Hello,

I am running Mailman version 2.1.6 and recently had to move my servers 
from one data center to another. This necessitated a change of IPs. 
Since the move, Mailman has refused to send out posts from my lists. 
Mail gets to the host and is redirected through aliases to the proper 
location, but then seemingly disappears. To be truthful, mail from the 
test list does show up very sporadically, sometimes hours later. But ... 
90% of the time .. nothing happens.

I am also running"

Linux ebony.zuka.net 2.6.9-11.ELsmp #1 SMP Wed Jun 8 17:54:20 CDT 2005 
i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
This is CentOS release 4.1 (Final)
This is Perl version 5.008005 (5.8.5)

This is MailScanner version 4.63.8

I have checked all the logs and can find nothing that sticks out. 
Nothing, other than the IP numbers have changed after the move. I am 
stumped so I am hoping someone might be able to suggest somewhere to 
look and some sort of troubleshooting that I may have missed.

Cheers

Dave

From attila at kinali.ch  Thu Feb 21 10:21:36 2008
From: attila at kinali.ch (Attila Kinali)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:21:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <87tzk3uqwy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>
	<010c01c873d9$478364f0$d68a2ed0$@com>
	<20080220171344.5792af52.attila@kinali.ch>
	<00a201c873dc$7e594c80$7b0be580$@com>
	<873arnwn5t.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20080220185218.575bff5d.attila@kinali.ch>
	<87tzk3uqwy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20080221102136.b7b6ac3a.attila@kinali.ch>

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:52:29 +0900
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:

> Attila Kinali writes:
> 
>  > It's just yahoo that behaves like a black sheep in this game.
> 
> But that's simply not true.  AOL has a deservedly bad reputation, as
> does Hotmail.  I've had problems with a number of universities, as
> well (deserved, in a sense, but it was damn hard to get off the ban
> list once we got on).

Sure, i'm not saying that there aren't any other black sheep.
But yahoo is the only one i have problems with. Aol and even
hotmail work fine.

			Attila Kinali


-- 
Praised are the Fountains of Shelieth, the silver harp of the waters,
But blest in my name forever this stream that stanched my thirst!
                         -- Deed of Morred

From attila at kinali.ch  Thu Feb 21 10:26:03 2008
From: attila at kinali.ch (Attila Kinali)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:26:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <87skznuqbb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>
	<010c01c873d9$478364f0$d68a2ed0$@com>
	<20080220171344.5792af52.attila@kinali.ch>
	<00a201c873dc$7e594c80$7b0be580$@com>
	<873arnwn5t.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<00cd01c873f7$0aa28ac0$1fe7a040$@com>
	<87skznuqbb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20080221102603.3ce9b339.attila@kinali.ch>

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:05:28 +0900
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:

> Are you getting the "deferral based on customer complaints"?  If so,
> do you think they're lying about that, or something?  (I'm not
> claiming that you or any of your clients are spamming, and I don't
> really care whether Yahoo customers are on average dumber than a
> fencepost; the question is about Yahoo procedures.)

Yes, i'm sure that these user complaints are not true.
The sever has only about two dozen mailinglists on it.
The few users that are on the machine dont use it for mail.
Not to mention that all mailinglist use some heavy spam filtering
that catches over 99% of it.

Never the less, i asked yahoo about these user complaints
but this question simply got ignored.

			Attila Kinali

-- 
Praised are the Fountains of Shelieth, the silver harp of the waters,
But blest in my name forever this stream that stanched my thirst!
                         -- Deed of Morred

From attila at kinali.ch  Thu Feb 21 10:53:41 2008
From: attila at kinali.ch (Attila Kinali)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:53:41 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <87ve4jur3d.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
	<8763wjwo2f.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20080220184150.c20819e0.attila@kinali.ch>
	<87ve4jur3d.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20080221105341.fc6090a6.attila@kinali.ch>

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:48:38 +0900
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:

> Attila Kinali writes:
> 
>  > > This is just selective greylisting, which lots of sites use as a
>  > > blanket policy.
>  > 
>  > It's definitly not greylisting. Our server sends out a few dozen mails
>  > a day on the low traffic lists to a few hundred on the high traffic ones.
>  > Any greylisting that is half way sanely implemented should know after
>  > the second mail that the server is a legitimate sender.
> 
> Well, maybe.  That is harder than it sounds to scale, though.  The
> problem is that Yahoo has a lot of MXes, each handling hundreds of
> thousands or millions of messages per day, and they're going to need
> to propagate the greylist database to all of them somehow.  It's a
> solvable problem, but nontrivial.

It's still not graylisting. For one thing, i get the follwoing error
message:
---
Feb 19 06:51:52 natsuki postfix/smtp[5564]: 205153B3B3: host g.mx.mail.yahoo.com
[209.191.88.239] refused to talk to me: 421 4.7.0 [TS01] Messages from 213.144.138.186
temporarily deferred due to user complaints - 4.16.55.1; see
http://postmaster.yahoo.com/421-ts01.html
---

The "refused to talk to me" makes it clear that my server didn't even get
a greeting, but above error message instead. So, yahoo doesn't even know
who the sender or recipient is. Ie, the whole thing is IP based.

For another thing, we send so many mails out, per day, that the probability
that we hit a server with the same envelope from/to twice in a day is nearly 1.


> If you're using exim -qff, you also may be running into a problem of
> hammering on their MXes too frequently; many greylisting algorithms
> don't like that.

And it isn't nice for all the other mail servers. There is a reason
why MTAs usualy implement an exponential back off if mail cannot be delivered.

So, no, i'm not doing that and never will.

 
> BTW, do you think they're lying about the user complaints?

Yes. See my other mail about that.


>  > I'd rather say [Yahoo] have no clue at all. 
> 
> The problem that Yahoo faces is that not only is their hardware
> distributed, so is their wetware.  It's a lot easier for one person to
> handle a few clues about the easy problems that one person can handle
> than for an organization to deal with many clues about the much harder
> problems of scaling to Yahoo size.

I know it's not easy. I see what kind of problems i have with only
one domain. But yahoo could at least talk to me in a proper way so
that we could find a solution together.

> Domain keys are per-message cryptographic signatures, too.  And as for
> 200K mails per day, is that 200K *posts* per day, or more like 2000
> posts per day going to 100 recipients each, or even better yet, 200
> posts/day going to 1000 recipients each?  And which would you rather
> do: save a few CPU cycles, or reliably get your mail through?  Maybe
> the usual variants on PGP are too expensive, but something weaker will
> do until the spammers catch on, by which time you can hope that
> everybody has enough CPU, and so on.


It's 1-400 mails/day on mailinglists ranging between 10 and 1500
subscribers. And be carefull with such callculations. A lot of 
things do not scale as good as we might think. The server in
question has one year average load of 0.40, with about 40-50%
of the CPU usage being spend on mailman (yes, mailman, 
not spamassasin or anything else). And it's not a small machine
either.

 
> I know that the conventional wisdom that signing mail is very
> expensive is well-justified, but on the other hand you have to
> remember that there's a difference between "very" and "too" expensive.

Too expensive for us.


			Attila Kinali

-- 
Praised are the Fountains of Shelieth, the silver harp of the waters,
But blest in my name forever this stream that stanched my thirst!
                         -- Deed of Morred

From Justin.Downs at shawgrp.com  Thu Feb 21 15:12:19 2008
From: Justin.Downs at shawgrp.com (Downs, Justin)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:12:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not sending mail to list members
References: <47BD1A88.5090808@zuka.net>
Message-ID: <BD0AC48C56E552418B4D8CC9CB4234533BF90C@entbtrxmb02.shawgrp.com>

I have been having the same exact problem since Saturday.  The only thing that changed was an issue with the DNS zone, which has since been resolved, but none of our email lists are sending to their recepients.

________________________________

From: mailman-users-bounces+justin.downs=shawgrp.com at python.org on behalf of Dave Filchak
Sent: Wed 2/20/2008 11:30 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not sending mail to list members



Hello,

I am running Mailman version 2.1.6 and recently had to move my servers
from one data center to another. This necessitated a change of IPs.
Since the move, Mailman has refused to send out posts from my lists.
Mail gets to the host and is redirected through aliases to the proper
location, but then seemingly disappears. To be truthful, mail from the
test list does show up very sporadically, sometimes hours later. But ...
90% of the time .. nothing happens.

I am also running"

Linux ebony.zuka.net 2.6.9-11.ELsmp #1 SMP Wed Jun 8 17:54:20 CDT 2005
i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
This is CentOS release 4.1 (Final)
This is Perl version 5.008005 (5.8.5)

This is MailScanner version 4.63.8

I have checked all the logs and can find nothing that sticks out.
Nothing, other than the IP numbers have changed after the move. I am
stumped so I am hoping someone might be able to suggest somewhere to
look and some sort of troubleshooting that I may have missed.

Cheers

Dave
------------------------------------------------------
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From linux at zamirfamily.com  Thu Feb 21 16:12:37 2008
From: linux at zamirfamily.com (Dov Zamir)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:12:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008022016581101257367a488@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008022016581101257367a488@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47BD94E5.2070808@zamirfamily.com>

????? Mark Sapiro:
> Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>   
>> Are you getting the "deferral based on customer complaints"?  If so,
>> do you think they're lying about that, or something?  (I'm not
>> claiming that you or any of your clients are spamming, and I don't
>> really care whether Yahoo customers are on average dumber than a
>> fencepost; the question is about Yahoo procedures.)
>>     
>
>
> Note: The following is an incoherent rant from a deranged and totally
> frusted person. You've been warned.
>
> I'm getting the "deferral based on customer complaints" message. I
> looked it up on Yahoo's web site, and I followed a link to "Does
> Yahoo! Mail offer a feedback loop program to help senders minimize
> complaint rates?". I thought "good, I can sign up and find out who's
> reporting my mail as spam". Then I read further and found "To
> participate in the program, senders must sign their outbound emails
> with DomainKeys (DKIM is not currently supported)."
>
> This is the second time in recent weeks that some large mail service
> has used it's 600 lb. gorilla status to try to coerce me into
> something, and I don't like it.
>
> Actually, I don't care that much about Yahoo, because they do seem to
> accept my mail. My real complaint is with Microsoft and Hotmail.
> Several weeks ago, Hotmail started discarding some of my list mail,
> this quickly escalated from some to most to all. Note that they didn't
> reject it. Their MXs accepted it, but it never got delivered to any
> recipient, regardless of any whitelisting the recipients applied.
>
> I eventually found my way to <https://support.msn.com/default.aspx> and
> submitted a report via the form linked as "Sender Information for
> Hotmail Delivery". I got a response to that (to their credit, they
> always responded) suggesting I add SPF records in DNS (more 600 lb.
>   
SPF DNS records are now mandatory. Hotmail announced that they would not 
receive any mail from a source with no SPF record from the first day it 
became mandatory a couple of years ago, but did not actually carry out 
the threat at that time, however, it seems that they may now be 
implementing this. An SPF record supposedly reduces spammers ability to 
spoof your domain.
> gorilla tactics), and giving me a hotmail.com address to send sample
> messages to, and requesting that I inform the responder of the subject
> header of any messages I send.
>
> I tried to do this. I don't know what happened to the message I sent to
> the hotmail.com address, but my reply to the support rep bounced per
>
> Action: failed
> Status: 5.1.0
> Diagnostic-Code: smtp;554 5.1.0 Sender Denied
>
> I took great pains to always use my postmaster address in reports and
> replies. I went through several iterations of submitting forms,
> receiving replies and being unable to respond to the follow-up
> questions in the replies (always with the same reject as above).
>
> Also, at one point after putting SPF records in DNS, I tried to send an
> email per something I found on the support site to inform them of the
> domains (I can no longer find this instruction - I think it's been
> replaced by yet another web form). Here is the email I sent in it's
> entirety.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Return-path: <mark at msapiro.net>
> Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1])
> 	by msapiro.net with esmtp (Exim 4.62)
> 	(envelope-from <mark at msapiro.net>)
> 	id JW535E-00003K-OA
> 	for senderid at microsoft.com; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:53:38 -0800
> Message-ID: <47B1EB32.80602 at msapiro.net>
> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:53:38 -0800
> From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
> Organization: Not Very Much
> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031)
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> To: senderid at microsoft.com
> Subject: SPF records updated
> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.6
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> grizz.org
> msapiro.net
> sbh16.songbird.com
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> And the ironic thing is here's what happened when my MTA tried to send
> it.
>
>     SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data:
>     host mailb.microsoft.com [131.107.115.215]: 550 5.7.1 <Your e-mail
> was rejected by an anti-spam content filter on gateway
> (131.107.115.215). Reasons for rejection may be:
>     obscene language, graphics, or spam-like characteristics. Removing
> these may let the e-mail through the filter.>
>
> Ultimately, I started submitting the web forms describing the problem
> as an inability to respond to follow-up information requests on
> outstanding tickets. This got someone's attention, and I am currently
> (temporarily) on a mitigation whitelist which is supposed to allow
> time for the filters to retrain.
>
> We'll see.
>
> If you read this far, thanks for listening. I don't expect any advice
> (but if you have some, I'm interested). I've just been so frustrated
> by this process that I had to vent a bit.
>
>   




This mail was sent via Mail-SeCure System.





 
 
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From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 21 16:48:51 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 07:48:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get_content_type() takes exactly 1 argument
	(2given)
In-Reply-To: <bdffd0680802202208l7639c0ceg18b4e0d8dc6a6162@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802210748510296930709fb@msapiro>

Darragh Gammell wrote:
>
>I keep seeing this error in my mailman error logs.
>I've tried googling it for reasons but to no avail.
>
>Anyone seen it before/have a reason.
>
>Feb 21 17:03:21 2008 (16810) SHUNTING:
>1176744092.7541261+83406355fa8fca831709ca6993e45b1b8763a180
>Feb 21 17:03:25 2008 (16810) Uncaught runner exception: get_content_type()
>takes exactly 1 argument (2 given)
>Feb 21 17:03:25 2008 (16810) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
>_dispose
>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
>_dopipeline
>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 91, in process
>    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in
>send_digests
>    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306, in
>send_i18n_digests
>    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 177, in process
>    if ctype == 'text/plain':
>TypeError: get_content_type() takes exactly 1 argument (2 given)
>
>Feb 21 17:03:25 2008 (16810) SHUNTING:
>1176751776.884974+121ed930b09df2e15bc8390b3ab74317a382467c


I think this is a different manifestation of the same problem discussed
in the thread at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-February/060328.html>.

The underlying cause may not be the same, but the problem is
precipitated by a message in the list's lists/listname/digest.mbox
file.

If you can't figure out which message it is (It's probably the first
one in the digest.mbox that's missing from the HTML archive if the
list is archived) You can move the digest.mbox aside, and at worst,
you'll lose the digest, but the list will start again. Then you can
run bin/unshunt to finish processing the shunted messages. Before
running unshunt, it is always a good idea to check the shunt queue for
old messages that you don't want to unshunt and delete those before
unshunting.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 21 17:04:25 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:04:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not sending mail to list members
In-Reply-To: <BD0AC48C56E552418B4D8CC9CB4234533BF90C@entbtrxmb02.shawgrp.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080221080425037593070a30@msapiro>

Downs, Justin wrote:

>I have been having the same exact problem since Saturday.  The only thing that changed was an issue with the DNS zone, which has since been resolved, but none of our email lists are sending to their recepients.


Dave Filchak wrote:
>
>I am running Mailman version 2.1.6 and recently had to move my servers
>from one data center to another. This necessitated a change of IPs.
>Since the move, Mailman has refused to send out posts from my lists.
>Mail gets to the host and is redirected through aliases to the proper
>location, but then seemingly disappears. To be truthful, mail from the
>test list does show up very sporadically, sometimes hours later. But ...
>90% of the time .. nothing happens.


Please see whatever is relevant at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>
for clues. Then post what you find and/or what you looked for and
didn't find.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at list.org  Thu Feb 21 18:17:16 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:17:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get_content_type() takes exactly 1 argument
	(2given)
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802210748510296930709fb@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200802210748510296930709fb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <967AEBBB-BFAE-47A7-86E2-17598DB80661@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Feb 21, 2008, at 10:48 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> The underlying cause may not be the same, but the problem is
> precipitated by a message in the list's lists/listname/digest.mbox
> file.

Just FTR, I really want to move MM3's digest mailbox to maildir format  
instead of mbox.  MM3 will require Python 2.5, so we can use it's  
really great updated mailbox module to handle problems like this.   
That's the plan anyway.

- -Barry

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin)

iEYEARECAAYFAke9shwACgkQ2YZpQepbvXE64wCeJ5g98PTgMAJ+J5ipiU9DzOk+
ncsAnRJ5hG886mTjIpT6rcKyzRqfKRp5
=yZPy
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From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 21 18:21:09 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:21:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c3e2b48665d2@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <PC17602008022109210907657382f166@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>Oh, and Windows Live (you can't call it Hotmail anymore) requires 
>that you have a registered Windows Live ID before you can sign up for 
>their equivalent "Smart Network Data Services" program.


Yes, they do require you to register for an ID, but once that is done,
the only requirement for signing up for SNDS is that you can receive
mail or be authorized by someone who can receive mail at the
postmaster or abuse address of the domain that 'owns' that IP.

Also, while SNDS is not their Junk Mail Reporting Partner program, I
discovered yesterday that if the 'complaint rate' in the report
exceeds the '< 0.1%' rate, it is a link to the message that was
complained about. Since my messages are VERP'd, I know who complained.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jrlamar at owu.edu  Thu Feb 21 18:23:21 2008
From: jrlamar at owu.edu (Jason LaMar)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:23:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie spam filter (regex) question
Message-ID: <C3E31DB9.39A5D%jrlamar@owu.edu>

OK, forgive my ignorance, but I'm trying to add a Spam Filter rule that
allows postings from a specific e-mail address -- as an exception to our
normal filtering rules.

It hasn't worked thus far, so what would be the proper (best) 'Spam Filter
Regexp' entry to accept any messages from this example address:

some.person.name at gmail.com

I know this should be easy and that I'm just missing something silly, so any
quick help would be appreciated.



Thanks,

Jason

_________________________

Jason LaMar
Director of Information Services
Ohio Wesleyan University | Delaware, OH 43015
IP Tel: 740-368-3131 | AIM/Yahoo IM: jasonrlamar
Fax: 740-368-3272 | Web: http://www.owu.edu/



From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 21 18:54:02 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:54:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie spam filter (regex) question
In-Reply-To: <C3E31DB9.39A5D%jrlamar@owu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802210954020000a9457e02@msapiro>

Jason LaMar wrote:

>OK, forgive my ignorance, but I'm trying to add a Spam Filter rule that
>allows postings from a specific e-mail address -- as an exception to our
>normal filtering rules.
>
>It hasn't worked thus far, so what would be the proper (best) 'Spam Filter
>Regexp' entry to accept any messages from this example address:
>
>some.person.name at gmail.com
>
>I know this should be easy and that I'm just missing something silly, so any
>quick help would be appreciated.


Are you just trying to avoid trapping mail from
some.person.name at gmail.com in other header_filter_rules? You can do
that, but first, here are some things you can't do with
header_filter_rules.

You can't bypass holds for bounce_matching_headers.

You can't bypass membership and moderation checks.

You can't bypass other holds such as message too big, etc.

This is because the Accept action on a header_filter_rules rule only
means pass the header_filter_rules tests. It doesn't mean
unconditionally accept the message.

So assuming that what you want is to bypass the other
header_filter_rules, you need to "add new item" before the current
rule 1 so the new rule becomes #1. Then the new rule 1 regexp should be

  ^from:.*(\s|<)some\.person\.name at gmail\.com(\s|>|$)

and the action Accept.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Brandon at WebsterRidge.com  Thu Feb 21 19:30:26 2008
From: Brandon at WebsterRidge.com (Brandon Sussman)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:30:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT but related: Re: Mailman postings deferred by
 Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008022109210907657382f166@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008022109210907657382f166@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47BDC342.8060700@WebsterRidge.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Here I am congratulating myself for not having any of these problems and
United Online (Juno) has blocked mail access for an entire range
xxx.yyy.zzz.abc/24 at my webhost.

Fortunately they are very responsive and have routed my mail through a
different part of their network that is not blocked...

Yay for somebody with brains.
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iQEVAwUBR73DQtN2DJl/zagkAQKvwwf9EObawnOq26Wek2jt3etHCU2KzQt1xgn1
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From R.Smits at io.tudelft.nl  Thu Feb 21 20:43:28 2008
From: R.Smits at io.tudelft.nl (Richard Smits)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:43:28 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automated moderation
Message-ID: <47BDD460.5090209@io.tudelft.nl>

Hello,

I have a difficult problem. (Maybe not for you)

Every day we do an import and a member_sync for a couple of lists.

# Postings from any of these non-members will be automatically accepted
# with no further moderation applied.  Add member addresses one per
# line; start the line with a ^ character to designate a regular
# expression match.
accept_these_nonmembers =

We have lists where people has to mail to, and which they are a member
of. So the [Privacy-options, accept_these_non_members] do not work....,
because they are a member....
You have to uncheck the moderate square in the member list.

My question is : can we have 1 list of addresses which can mail to the
list. Now we have to make an exception for the people who are a member
of the list.

(We are doing an automated script import etc... so this is an issue for us)

Or am i missing something ;-)

Greetings.... Richard

From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Thu Feb 21 21:12:56 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:12:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <87r6f7up1z.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>	<008701c873d8$04736260$0d5a2720$@com>	<47BC7950.9080406@Media-Brokers.com>	<00cc01c873f5$728bb780$57a32680$@com>	<47BC8BCE.306@Media-Brokers.com>
	<87r6f7up1z.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <47BDDB48.6010205@Media-Brokers.com>

Stephen J. Turnbull, on 2/20/2008 7:32 PM, said the following:
> But the problem is that *Brian* (as an example) is an ISP whose
> reliability comes into question not because *his* customers use Yahoo,
> but because *his customers'* customers (subscribers, whatever) use
> Yahoo.  His customers are paying him money so that he takes care of
> the mail; they do not want to tell their customers to change their
> mail services.

I undertans, and believe me, I'm totally sympathetic... but I'm also
realistic.

There is nothing you can do to change Yahoos behavior, so my philosophy
is, just make my/your customers/clients aware of the problems when using
certain services/providers.

> Yahoo's customers are going to be disposed to believe that the
> problem is indeed elsewhere (the alternative is accepting their own
> responsibility for choosing a broken service, you see).

I do - but where I apparently differ with you is, I don't try to
encourage their illusions - in fact, I will do everything I can to
disabuse them of their illusions.

> So Brian (and other ISPs/hosting services like his) is caught in the
> middle.  He can't guarantee reliability because that depends on the
> customers' customer base, but reliability is what he takes pride in.

Again, I do understand the dilemma, I just choose not to make someone
else's problem my own.

Here is a canned email I send to our users once every few months:

Subject: Fyi: EMail is not always 100% reliable...

Hello,

Hopefully you already know this, but in case you didn't:

Hopefully you already know this, but in case you didn't:

There are any number of reasons that email can be delayed in transit. It
is even possible that a message will never arrive at its final
destination, and although under most circumstances you will get a bounce
notifying you of the problem, sometimes you will not. For this reason,
if you have some time-sensitive material or information that you are
sending to a client or vendor, send it to them, but FOLLOW-UP with a
phone call or something to make sure they got it.

In general, yes, if you send an email to someone, they will get it - but
it could be delayed in transit, it could get stopped by someone's
anti-spam or anti-virusm s/w (either running on their mail system's
server, or on their local machine), someone might accidentally delete
it without realizing it (it happens) - and it is even possible that a
mis-configured or otherwise malfunctioning server could lose your
message without generating a bounce.

So, if you are sending someone something that is time-sensitive and
money depends on it getting to its destination - FOLLOW-UP and make sure
it got there.

This is just common sense to me, but maybe you weren't aware that email
isn't always a 100% reliable communication medium.

-- 

Best regards,

Charles





From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 21 21:25:06 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:25:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automated moderation
In-Reply-To: <47BDD460.5090209@io.tudelft.nl>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802211225060203d3164f91@msapiro>

Richard Smits wrote:
>
>Every day we do an import and a member_sync for a couple of lists.
>
># Postings from any of these non-members will be automatically accepted
># with no further moderation applied.  Add member addresses one per
># line; start the line with a ^ character to designate a regular
># expression match.
>accept_these_nonmembers =
>
>We have lists where people has to mail to, and which they are a member
>of. So the [Privacy-options, accept_these_non_members] do not work....,
>because they are a member....
>You have to uncheck the moderate square in the member list.
>
>My question is : can we have 1 list of addresses which can mail to the
>list. Now we have to make an exception for the people who are a member
>of the list.
>
>(We are doing an automated script import etc... so this is an issue for us)


I think the issue is you are not doing bin/sync_members to do the
import. If you use bin/sync_members, those people who are already
members will not have their moderation flag changed by the import.
This does require that sync_members be given the full membership list
each time, but if I understand correctly, that's what you're doing
anyway.

I don't know what your script process is, but neither sync_members or
add_members will change anything for an address which is already a
member.

If I'm not understanding the situation, please clarify.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From R.Smits at io.tudelft.nl  Thu Feb 21 21:31:36 2008
From: R.Smits at io.tudelft.nl (Richard Smits)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:31:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automated moderation
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802211225060203d3164f91@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200802211225060203d3164f91@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47BDDFA8.6060705@io.tudelft.nl>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Richard Smits wrote:
>> Every day we do an import and a member_sync for a couple of lists.
>>
>> # Postings from any of these non-members will be automatically accepted
>> # with no further moderation applied.  Add member addresses one per
>> # line; start the line with a ^ character to designate a regular
>> # expression match.
>> accept_these_nonmembers =
>>
>> We have lists where people has to mail to, and which they are a member
>> of. So the [Privacy-options, accept_these_non_members] do not work....,
>> because they are a member....
>> You have to uncheck the moderate square in the member list.
>>
>> My question is : can we have 1 list of addresses which can mail to the
>> list. Now we have to make an exception for the people who are a member
>> of the list.
>>
>> (We are doing an automated script import etc... so this is an issue for us)
> 
> 
> I think the issue is you are not doing bin/sync_members to do the
> import. If you use bin/sync_members, those people who are already
> members will not have their moderation flag changed by the import.
> This does require that sync_members be given the full membership list
> each time, but if I understand correctly, that's what you're doing
> anyway.

That's right...

> 
> I don't know what your script process is, but neither sync_members or
> add_members will change anything for an address which is already a
> member.

Also right, but we have to make a script to make the helpdesk manage a
"list or textfile" with addresses wich can mail to a list. Some people
are member of such a list, and some aren't.. so we have 2 places in the
system where we have to work.
---------
Accept from non members (non member)
Moderation flag (member)
---------
this is possible, but I was wondering if it's possible to have 1 place
for such addresses.

It would make life easier....:-)

Greetings... and thank you for the help...

From jrlamar at owu.edu  Thu Feb 21 21:34:45 2008
From: jrlamar at owu.edu (Jason LaMar)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:34:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie spam filter (regex) question
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802210954020000a9457e02@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200802210954020000a9457e02@msapiro>
Message-ID: <2686.192.68.223.67.1203626085.squirrel@mail.owu.edu>

Mark,

The simple trap is all I was trying to avoid -- with the understanding on
the other bypass caveats. Thanks very much.

Jason

_________________________

Jason LaMar
Director of Information Services
Ohio Wesleyan University | Delaware, OH 43015
IP Tel: 740-368-3131 | AIM/Yahoo IM: jasonrlamar
Fax: 740-368-3272 | Web: http://www.owu.edu/

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 21 22:20:54 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:20:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automated moderation
In-Reply-To: <47BDDFA8.6060705@io.tudelft.nl>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802211320540921ad72804f@msapiro>

Richard Smits wrote:
>
>Also right, but we have to make a script to make the helpdesk manage a
>"list or textfile" with addresses wich can mail to a list. Some people
>are member of such a list, and some aren't.. so we have 2 places in the
>system where we have to work.
>---------
>Accept from non members (non member)
>Moderation flag (member)
>---------
>this is possible, but I was wondering if it's possible to have 1 place
>for such addresses.


No. There is not one place where you can list members and non-members
alike who are allowed to post, but you could make a withlist script
which depending on your need could do something like:

Set all members moderated.

Clear accept_these_nonmembers.

Read the file of posters addresses.

For each posters address, if it is a list member, set it unmoderated,
  else add it to accept_these_nonmembers.

There are examples of withlist scripts in 'bin/withlist --help' and
several more at <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/> (mirrored at
<http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~msapiro/scripts/> and
<http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/>). In fact, my scripts page
already includes a stand alone script that can be used to maintain the
*_these_nonmembers lists and a withlist script for maintaining
moderation flags.

I'm sure you could hack something out of these to do what you want.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Feb 22 04:40:38 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:40:38 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <47BD94E5.2070808@zamirfamily.com>
References: <PC17602008022016581101257367a488@msapiro>
	<47BD94E5.2070808@zamirfamily.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c3e3f3d23c23@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/21/08, Dov Zamir wrote:

>  SPF DNS records are now mandatory. Hotmail announced that they would not
>  receive any mail from a source with no SPF record from the first day it
>  became mandatory a couple of years ago, but did not actually carry out
>  the threat at that time, however, it seems that they may now be
>  implementing this. An SPF record supposedly reduces spammers ability to
>  spoof your domain.

SPF is fundamentally broken, in many ways.  It was so in 2004, and it 
is still so today.

See <http://bradknowles.typepad.com/considered_harmful/2004/05/spf.html>.


Besides, Windows Live insists on SenderID, not SPF.  You should do 
your homework.


Either way, if Windows Live Hotmail wants to isolate themselves from 
the rest of the world as a result of a technology like this, then 
they will get what they deserve.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Feb 22 04:42:53 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:42:53 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get_content_type() takes exactly 1 argument
 (2given)
In-Reply-To: <967AEBBB-BFAE-47A7-86E2-17598DB80661@list.org>
References: <PC1760200802210748510296930709fb@msapiro>
	<967AEBBB-BFAE-47A7-86E2-17598DB80661@list.org>
Message-ID: <p06240803c3e3f5098509@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/21/08, Barry Warsaw wrote:

>  Just FTR, I really want to move MM3's digest mailbox to maildir format
>  instead of mbox.  MM3 will require Python 2.5, so we can use it's
>  really great updated mailbox module to handle problems like this.
>  That's the plan anyway.

Can we at least use a hashed mail directory solution that doesn't 
have massive scalability problems?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Feb 22 05:24:01 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:24:01 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <20080221105341.fc6090a6.attila@kinali.ch>
References: <006c01c873b1$f8442400$e8cc6c00$@com>
	<20080220162447.a489b1c3.attila@kinali.ch>
	<8763wjwo2f.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20080220184150.c20819e0.attila@kinali.ch>
	<87ve4jur3d.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20080221105341.fc6090a6.attila@kinali.ch>
Message-ID: <87zltthb4u.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Attila Kinali writes:

 > It's still not graylisting.  [...]  The "refused to talk to me"
 > makes it clear that my server didn't even get a greeting, but above
 > error message instead. So, yahoo doesn't even know who the sender
 > or recipient is. Ie, the whole thing is IP based.

OK, that's a lot more punitive than they make it sound.

 > > The problem that Yahoo faces is that not only is their hardware
 > > distributed, so is their wetware.  It's a lot easier for one person to
 > > handle a few clues about the easy problems that one person can handle
 > > than for an organization to deal with many clues about the much harder
 > > problems of scaling to Yahoo size.
 > 
 > I know it's not easy. I see what kind of problems i have with only
 > one domain. But yahoo could at least talk to me in a proper way so
 > that we could find a solution together.

You're anthropomorphizing.  There *is no Yahoo* that can talk to you
in a proper way.  Only employees.  Look at it this way: a bureaucracy
*is* like a machine, so designing an organization in which the
employees behave like human beings toward non-paying-customers is very
similar to writing a good UI for a large program --- but orders of
magnitude harder.  And you know how hard UI is.

I dunno, it sounds like all we can really do is boycott Yahoo, as you
suggested in the first place.  Whether they'll care, I don't know.


From barry at list.org  Fri Feb 22 14:46:50 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:46:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get_content_type() takes exactly 1 argument
	(2given)
In-Reply-To: <p06240803c3e3f5098509@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <PC1760200802210748510296930709fb@msapiro>
	<967AEBBB-BFAE-47A7-86E2-17598DB80661@list.org>
	<p06240803c3e3f5098509@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <568B16A4-2555-4C3F-80DD-E0E0E4B6294A@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Feb 21, 2008, at 10:42 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> On 2/21/08, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
>> Just FTR, I really want to move MM3's digest mailbox to maildir  
>> format
>> instead of mbox.  MM3 will require Python 2.5, so we can use it's
>> really great updated mailbox module to handle problems like this.
>> That's the plan anyway.
>
> Can we at least use a hashed mail directory solution that doesn't  
> have massive scalability problems?

For the digests it probably doesn't matter because they'll never get  
that big.  I'm still planning on making this change for the queue  
directories (though I haven't yet).

- -Barry

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin)

iEYEARECAAYFAke+0koACgkQ2YZpQepbvXGeRgCfanXNjb4NYNzVnK7i7FM2TZpM
NIMAnjcwkm0ElMle7RmHP65n7sIcqetD
=Ndfd
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From una.smith at att.net  Fri Feb 22 18:06:28 2008
From: una.smith at att.net (Una Smith)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:06:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest new bug
Message-ID: <20080222170628.GA29710@att.net>

I run a list using Mailman 2.1.9;  I am only the listadmin, not the site
admin.  I have configured the list so that subscribers who choose the
digest option get one or more daily digests if there are any posts that
day.  On or about December 16th, the digest subscribers stopped getting
any digests at all.  Exception:  if I use send_digest_now, they get a
digest.  The digest volume number increments each month.  I used 
send_digest_now in the middle of February and the result was volume X
issue 1;  it should have been more like issue 10.  This tells me the
problem is in Mailman.

Is this a known problem?

	Una Smith

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 22 18:56:04 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:56:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest new bug
In-Reply-To: <20080222170628.GA29710@att.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802220956040921789fe5bd@msapiro>

Una Smith wrote:

>I run a list using Mailman 2.1.9;  I am only the listadmin, not the site
>admin.  I have configured the list so that subscribers who choose the
>digest option get one or more daily digests if there are any posts that
>day.  On or about December 16th, the digest subscribers stopped getting
>any digests at all.  Exception:  if I use send_digest_now, they get a
>digest.  The digest volume number increments each month.  I used 
>send_digest_now in the middle of February and the result was volume X
>issue 1;  it should have been more like issue 10.  This tells me the
>problem is in Mailman.


I suspect the problem is one of two things. Either Digest options ->
digest_send_periodic is set to No or Mailman's cron/senddigests is not
being run by cron.

I suspect that on or about December 16th, either someone changed the
list's digest_send_periodic setting or changed Mailman's crontab or
for some reason, the system's crond stopped running.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From una.smith at att.net  Fri Feb 22 20:19:42 2008
From: una.smith at att.net (Una Smith)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:19:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest new bug
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802220956040921789fe5bd@msapiro>
References: <20080222170628.GA29710@att.net>
	<PC1760200802220956040921789fe5bd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080222191942.GA30023@att.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>I suspect the problem is one of two things. Either Digest options ->
>digest_send_periodic is set to No or Mailman's cron/senddigests is not
>being run by cron.
>
>I suspect that on or about December 16th, either someone changed the
>list's digest_send_periodic setting or changed Mailman's crontab or
>for some reason, the system's crond stopped running.

That's what I concluded myself, after I posted my query here.

	Una

From yahoo at jimpop.com  Fri Feb 22 21:10:31 2008
From: yahoo at jimpop.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:10:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail URL handling in archives
Message-ID: <7ff145960802221210o6da72e9bw9e1b8ad04ebf3e05@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I have a problem with some URLs being handled incorrectly.
Specifically URLs that are at the end of a sentence followed by a
period (full stop).   Example:

   To enroll visit this site: http://www.domain.tld/cgi-bin/enroll.pl.

Mailman/Pipermail converts that sentence like so:

  To enroll visit this site: <A
HREF="http://www.domain.tld/cgi-bin/enroll.pl.">http://www.domain.tld/cgi-bin/enroll.pl.</A>

The ending period (full stop) then invalidates the URL.

Is there any quick fix to 2.1.9 to resolve this?

Thanks,

-Jim P.

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 22 22:03:39 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:03:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail URL handling in archives
In-Reply-To: <7ff145960802221210o6da72e9bw9e1b8ad04ebf3e05@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008022213033906252192c278@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
>
>I have a problem with some URLs being handled incorrectly.
>Specifically URLs that are at the end of a sentence followed by a
>period (full stop).   Example:
>
>   To enroll visit this site: http://www.domain.tld/cgi-bin/enroll.pl.
>
>Mailman/Pipermail converts that sentence like so:
>
>  To enroll visit this site: <A
>HREF="http://www.domain.tld/cgi-bin/enroll.pl.">http://www.domain.tld/cgi-bin/enroll.pl.</A>
>
>The ending period (full stop) then invalidates the URL.
>
>Is there any quick fix to 2.1.9 to resolve this?


You could try to find the line

urlpat = re.compile(r'(\w+://[^>)\s]+)') # URLs in text

near the beginning of Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py and change it to

urlpat = re.compile(r'(\w+://[^>)\s]+?)\.?(\s|$)') # URLs in text

Note this re is very lightly tested and may not work in all cases.

Of course, if you can get the posters to surround their URLs with <>,
there is no problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From yahoo at jimpop.com  Fri Feb 22 22:09:49 2008
From: yahoo at jimpop.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:09:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail URL handling in archives
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008022213033906252192c278@msapiro>
References: <7ff145960802221210o6da72e9bw9e1b8ad04ebf3e05@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602008022213033906252192c278@msapiro>
Message-ID: <7ff145960802221309t2ed412f8o6589f78a9109d43e@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 4:03 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>  You could try to find the line
>
>  urlpat = re.compile(r'(\w+://[^>)\s]+)') # URLs in text
>
>  near the beginning of Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py and change it to
>
>  urlpat = re.compile(r'(\w+://[^>)\s]+?)\.?(\s|$)') # URLs in text
>
>  Note this re is very lightly tested and may not work in all cases.

As always, Thank you Mark.

>  Of course, if you can get the posters to surround their URLs with <>,
>  there is no problem.

:-) Herding cats would be easier.

Thanks again,

-Jim P.

From yahoo at jimpop.com  Sat Feb 23 01:09:16 2008
From: yahoo at jimpop.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 19:09:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail URL handling in archives
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008022213033906252192c278@msapiro>
References: <7ff145960802221210o6da72e9bw9e1b8ad04ebf3e05@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602008022213033906252192c278@msapiro>
Message-ID: <7ff145960802221609r2ed75c08r5c27192b3d22c18e@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 4:03 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>  You could try to find the line
>
>  urlpat = re.compile(r'(\w+://[^>)\s]+)') # URLs in text
>
>  near the beginning of Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py and change it to
>
>  urlpat = re.compile(r'(\w+://[^>)\s]+?)\.?(\s|$)') # URLs in text

Mark, that works well for the case I described.  I did find something
else similar that doesn't work:

     this is another url http://www.yahoo.com, and so is this
http://www.google.com.

Gets converted into:
   this is another url <A
HREF="http://www.yahoo.com,">http://www.yahoo.com,</A>
            and so is this <A
HREF="http://www.ibm.com">http://www.google.com</A>.

So, the problem seems to appear with commas too which makes me wonder
if this can be resolved with this:

   urlpat = re.compile(r'(\w+://[^>)\s]+?)(\.|,)?(\s|$)') # URLs in text

but then I got to thinking about any other punctuation make that
follows a URL... and my mind started spinning :-)

Any ideas, anyone?

-Jim P.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 23 01:37:24 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:37:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail URL handling in archives
In-Reply-To: <7ff145960802221609r2ed75c08r5c27192b3d22c18e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008022216372404373ffcdbed@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:

>On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 4:03 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>>  You could try to find the line
>>
>>  urlpat = re.compile(r'(\w+://[^>)\s]+)') # URLs in text
>>
>>  near the beginning of Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py and change it to
>>
>>  urlpat = re.compile(r'(\w+://[^>)\s]+?)\.?(\s|$)') # URLs in text
>
>Mark, that works well for the case I described.  I did find something
>else similar that doesn't work:
>
>     this is another url http://www.yahoo.com, and so is this
>http://www.google.com.
>
>Gets converted into:
>   this is another url <A
>HREF="http://www.yahoo.com,">http://www.yahoo.com,</A>
>            and so is this <A
>HREF="http://www.ibm.com">http://www.google.com</A>.


I assume that's a typo and 'ibm' should be 'google'.


>So, the problem seems to appear with commas too which makes me wonder
>if this can be resolved with this:
>
>   urlpat = re.compile(r'(\w+://[^>)\s]+?)(\.|,)?(\s|$)') # URLs in text
>
>but then I got to thinking about any other punctuation make that
>follows a URL... and my mind started spinning :-)


I think the suggestion above - (\.|,)? would work for comma, but you
could do it other ways - e.g.

   urlpat = re.compile(r'(\w+://[^>)\s]+?)[.,;]?(\s|$)') # URLs in text

to handle '.', ',' and ';', and you could extend that with more
characters, but you really need to be careful. Consider for example,
<http://www.example.com/some/page#anchor.> which could be a valid URL
ending in '.'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From yahoo at jimpop.com  Sat Feb 23 01:57:40 2008
From: yahoo at jimpop.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 19:57:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail URL handling in archives
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008022216372404373ffcdbed@msapiro>
References: <7ff145960802221609r2ed75c08r5c27192b3d22c18e@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602008022216372404373ffcdbed@msapiro>
Message-ID: <7ff145960802221657k3c7a497dje740a685b9cab4c1@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 7:37 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>  >Gets converted into:
>  >   this is another url <A
>  >HREF="http://www.yahoo.com,">http://www.yahoo.com,</A>
>  >            and so is this <A
>  >HREF="http://www.ibm.com">http://www.google.com</A>.
>
>
>  I assume that's a typo and 'ibm' should be 'google'.

:-) Yep.  I had used www.ibm.com and www.mbi.com in my test and
changed them to G! and Y! for the email, but
  missed one reference.

>  >So, the problem seems to appear with commas too which makes me wonder
>  >if this can be resolved with this:
>  >
>  >   urlpat = re.compile(r'(\w+://[^>)\s]+?)(\.|,)?(\s|$)') # URLs in text
>  >
>  >but then I got to thinking about any other punctuation make that
>  >follows a URL... and my mind started spinning :-)
>
>
>  I think the suggestion above - (\.|,)? would work for comma, but you
>  could do it other ways - e.g.
>
>
>    urlpat = re.compile(r'(\w+://[^>)\s]+?)[.,;]?(\s|$)') # URLs in text
>
>  to handle '.', ',' and ';', and you could extend that with more
>  characters, but you really need to be careful. Consider for example,
>  <http://www.example.com/some/page#anchor.> which could be a valid URL
>  ending in '.'.

Understood.  I think the "[.,;]" would cover 99% of the possibilities
of a URL in a sentence.

Thanks again!

-Jim P.

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Feb 23 02:13:02 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 10:13:02 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail URL handling in archives
In-Reply-To: <7ff145960802221609r2ed75c08r5c27192b3d22c18e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7ff145960802221210o6da72e9bw9e1b8ad04ebf3e05@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602008022213033906252192c278@msapiro>
	<7ff145960802221609r2ed75c08r5c27192b3d22c18e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87fxvkh3vl.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Jim Popovitch writes:

 > On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 4:03 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
 > So, the problem seems to appear with commas too which makes me wonder
 > if this can be resolved with this:
 > 
 >    urlpat = re.compile(r'(\w+://[^>)\s]+?)(\.|,)?(\s|$)') # URLs in text
 > 
 > but then I got to thinking about any other punctuation make that
 > follows a URL... and my mind started spinning :-)
 > 
 > Any ideas, anyone?

Unfortunately sre doesn't support POSIX character classes (like
[:punct:]) AFAIK, but I would say it's a good idea to make that

   urlpat = re.compile(r'(\w+://[^>)\s]+?)[#,.::\'"!?()]?(\s|$)') # URLs in text

for starters.  It would be better to replace it with a real
URL-matching regexp, though.


From boxenberg at hotmail.com  Sat Feb 23 03:01:20 2008
From: boxenberg at hotmail.com (Dov Oxenberg)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:01:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail URL handling in archives
In-Reply-To: <7ff145960802221609r2ed75c08r5c27192b3d22c18e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7ff145960802221210o6da72e9bw9e1b8ad04ebf3e05@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602008022213033906252192c278@msapiro> 
	<7ff145960802221609r2ed75c08r5c27192b3d22c18e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU120-W13596C40B43FA90EC4C015A31E0@phx.gbl>

Hi,
Please pardon me for butting in, I will be the first to admit I am probably the least qualified to give an opinion here, but....
:-)
It seems to me this is a DNS issue, no?  Simply because the trailing character, be it a comma or period, more or less represents "root" as far as DNS is concerned.  If you have a form front end it should not be that big a deal to just "trim" the period or comma from the URL.
Or am I just totally out of touch here???



> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 19:09:16 -0500> From: yahoo at jimpop.com> To: mailman-users at python.org> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail URL handling in archives> > On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 4:03 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:> > You could try to find the line> >> > urlpat = re.compile(r'(\w+://[^>)\s]+)') # URLs in text> >> > near the beginning of Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py and change it to> >> > urlpat = re.compile(r'(\w+://[^>)\s]+?)\.?(\s|$)') # URLs in text> > Mark, that works well for the case I described. I did find something> else similar that doesn't work:> > this is another url http://www.yahoo.com, and so is this> http://www.google.com.> > Gets converted into:> this is another url <A> HREF="http://www.yahoo.com,">http://www.yahoo.com,</A>> and so is this <A> HREF="http://www.ibm.com">http://www.google.com</A>.> > So, the problem seems to appear with commas too which makes me wonder> if this can be resolved with this:> > urlpat = re.compile(r'(\w+://[^>)\s]+?)(\.|,)?(\s|$)') # URLs in text> > but then I got to thinking about any other punctuation make that> follows a URL... and my mind started spinning :-)> > Any ideas, anyone?> > -Jim P.> ------------------------------------------------------> Mailman-Users mailing list> Mailman-Users at python.org> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/boxenberg%40hotmail.com> > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From yahoo at jimpop.com  Sat Feb 23 03:13:01 2008
From: yahoo at jimpop.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:13:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail URL handling in archives
In-Reply-To: <BLU120-W13596C40B43FA90EC4C015A31E0@phx.gbl>
References: <7ff145960802221210o6da72e9bw9e1b8ad04ebf3e05@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602008022213033906252192c278@msapiro>
	<7ff145960802221609r2ed75c08r5c27192b3d22c18e@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU120-W13596C40B43FA90EC4C015A31E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <7ff145960802221813o44c35b07vd334ef08a1708119@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 9:01 PM, Dov Oxenberg <boxenberg at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>  Please pardon me for butting in, I will be the first to admit I am probably
> the least qualified to give an opinion here, but....
>  :-)
>  It seems to me this is a DNS issue, no?  Simply because the trailing
> character, be it a comma or period, more or less represents "root" as far as
> DNS is concerned.  If you have a form front end it should not be that big a
> deal to just "trim" the period or comma from the URL.
>  Or am I just totally out of touch here???

:-) Well, tell that to those who live in a point-n-click world.   Yes,
manually removing the comma or period (or any other sentence forming
punctuation character that immediately trails the URL) will work,
HOWEVER that doesn't work for search engines when pipermail includes
the trailing mark within the html anchors.

-Jim P.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Feb 23 05:14:20 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 22:14:20 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get_content_type() takes exactly 1 argument
 (2given)
In-Reply-To: <568B16A4-2555-4C3F-80DD-E0E0E4B6294A@list.org>
References: <PC1760200802210748510296930709fb@msapiro>
	<967AEBBB-BFAE-47A7-86E2-17598DB80661@list.org>
	<p06240803c3e3f5098509@[192.168.1.199]>
	<568B16A4-2555-4C3F-80DD-E0E0E4B6294A@list.org>
Message-ID: <p0624080bc3e54cc7165e@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/22/08, Barry Warsaw wrote:

>>  Can we at least use a hashed mail directory solution that doesn't
>>  have massive scalability problems?
>
>  For the digests it probably doesn't matter because they'll never get
>  that big.  I'm still planning on making this change for the queue
>  directories (though I haven't yet).

I thought we were talking about replacing the 7th edition mbox file 
format for the raw or the similar mbox-like format for the cooked 
archives.  Using some sort of a hashed directory structure would 
allow a lot more flexibility in terms of going in and deleting or 
editing messages in the archive, along with many other benefits it 
might bring.

However, if you imagine python-list with hundreds of thousands of 
messages in the archive, there's just no way that could possibly 
scale with Maildir, Maildir+, or any other solution that does not 
enforce a good hashed directory scheme that is kept invisible to the 
higher-level applications.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From odieresis at gmail.com  Sat Feb 23 10:24:33 2008
From: odieresis at gmail.com (Odieresis [Gmail])
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 10:24:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delete message in large mbox
Message-ID: <47BFE651.70205@gmail.com>

Hi,

I need to delete a message from the archive. I read in some post I have 
to open mbox file of the list and manually remove the message as in 
source code. Then to rebuild the archive it's necessary to backup the 
archive folder and leave it blank.

Now I have a large mbox of MB 200. Can you tell me how I can handle such 
a file direct in shell access or downloading and uploading it?

Thank you for your time,

Francesco



From barry at list.org  Sat Feb 23 14:33:48 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 08:33:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get_content_type() takes exactly 1 argument
	(2given)
In-Reply-To: <p0624080bc3e54cc7165e@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <PC1760200802210748510296930709fb@msapiro>
	<967AEBBB-BFAE-47A7-86E2-17598DB80661@list.org>
	<p06240803c3e3f5098509@[192.168.1.199]>
	<568B16A4-2555-4C3F-80DD-E0E0E4B6294A@list.org>
	<p0624080bc3e54cc7165e@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <8835828F-6B51-47EB-BF35-79E8AD626AE1@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I set the Reply-To to mailman-developers, since that's where we should  
move this discussion to.

On Feb 22, 2008, at 11:14 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> On 2/22/08, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
>>> Can we at least use a hashed mail directory solution that doesn't
>>> have massive scalability problems?
>>
>> For the digests it probably doesn't matter because they'll never get
>> that big.  I'm still planning on making this change for the queue
>> directories (though I haven't yet).
>
> I thought we were talking about replacing the 7th edition mbox file  
> format for the raw or the similar mbox-like format for the cooked  
> archives.  Using some sort of a hashed directory structure would  
> allow a lot more flexibility in terms of going in and deleting or  
> editing messages in the archive, along with many other benefits it  
> might bring.
>
> However, if you imagine python-list with hundreds of thousands of  
> messages in the archive, there's just no way that could possibly  
> scale with Maildir, Maildir+, or any other solution that does not  
> enforce a good hashed directory scheme that is kept invisible to the  
> higher-level applications.

The archives is an entirely different subsystem, and without a  
volunteer stepping forward (for which I've been practically begging  
for years ;), I don't see us being able to do any architectural  
changes to Pipermail, at least until after MM3 comes out, if ever.   
That's the unfortunate reality, but I do have thoughts about our  
archiver situation, which I'll outline at some future date.

Actually, what I was talking about was the temporary digest mailbox.   
When Mailman receives messages destined for the list's digest, it  
holds these messages in a mailbox, currently mbox format, because  
that's all that older Python's supported.  Then when Mailman is  
building the digest, it reads messages from this mbox, and chucks it  
when its done.  So they never get that big, or live for that long.

Still, mbox presents its own problems, such as what Mark outlined.   
One corrupted message, or a broken mbox delimiter horks the whole  
digest.  I think we can do better with maildir and for the digest  
application, we don't have to worry about scalability.

- -Barry

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lNsAn2UPZg9QNKZUkWwZHDzBmkPYbz02
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From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 23 18:10:58 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 09:10:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delete message in large mbox
In-Reply-To: <47BFE651.70205@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080223091058067106ee83b9@msapiro>

Odieresis wrote:
>
>I need to delete a message from the archive. I read in some post I have 
>to open mbox file of the list and manually remove the message as in 
>source code. Then to rebuild the archive it's necessary to backup the 
>archive folder and leave it blank.
>
>Now I have a large mbox of MB 200. Can you tell me how I can handle such 
>a file direct in shell access or downloading and uploading it?


If you haven't already done so, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>.
Even if you have seen this FAQ, see it again as I just revised it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From odieresis at gmail.com  Sat Feb 23 18:24:34 2008
From: odieresis at gmail.com (Odieresis [Gmail])
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 18:24:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delete message in large mbox
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080223091058067106ee83b9@msapiro>
References: <PC176020080223091058067106ee83b9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47C056D2.8040202@gmail.com>


Mark Sapiro ha scritto:
> If you haven't already done so, see
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>.
> Even if you have seen this FAQ, see it again as I just revised it.
>   

Thank you Mark, this is where I collected the informations about how to 
delete the messages.
Now my question is how to handle a large mailbox file. Maybe it's a dumb 
question, I can't open the file with mutt or emacs, I think these are 
unavailable on my virtual server.

I will appreciate any suggestion, thank you.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 23 18:30:28 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 09:30:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delete message in large mbox
In-Reply-To: <47C056D2.8040202@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008022309302803435c980213@msapiro>

Odieresis wrote:
>
>Thank you Mark, this is where I collected the informations about how to 
>delete the messages.
>Now my question is how to handle a large mailbox file. Maybe it's a dumb 
>question, I can't open the file with mutt or emacs, I think these are 
>unavailable on my virtual server.


You could try ed, ex, vi or vim, or you could just edit the individual
HTML message per the last section in the revised FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From odieresis at gmail.com  Sat Feb 23 18:44:11 2008
From: odieresis at gmail.com (Odieresis [Gmail])
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 18:44:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delete message in large mbox
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008022309302803435c980213@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008022309302803435c980213@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47C05B6B.9050209@gmail.com>

Mark Sapiro ha scritto:
> You could try ed, ex, vi or vim, or you could just edit the individual
> HTML message per the last section in the revised FAQ

I don't want to edit the html files and leave the message in the mailbox.
I tried to use vim, but it's a too long file to manage (I don't know how 
to do, too).
It will be nice if I can download and edit the mbox file or use such a 
mailbox manager online.

Thank you.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Feb 23 21:17:43 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:17:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delete message in large mbox
In-Reply-To: <47BFE651.70205@gmail.com>
References: <47BFE651.70205@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c3e62f272531@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/23/08, Odieresis [Gmail] wrote:

>  Now I have a large mbox of MB 200.

That's not a large mbox.  A large mbox is 2GB, especially on a system 
where the OS is not configured to support "large files", and 2GB is 
the largest file size it can handle.  Oh, and the machine has only 
2GB of RAM.

>                                      Can you tell me how I can handle such
>  a file direct in shell access or downloading and uploading it?

If you've got the necessary write access to the file, it doesn't 
matter if you edit the file in-place using tools like emacs or vim, 
or if you download the file to your local machine and edit it there 
with a similar program and then re-upload.

Either way, you're going to need an editor that can handle lines of 
arbitrary length, and binary content.  Relatively few editors handle 
either or both of those things correctly.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Feb 23 21:19:02 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:19:02 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delete message in large mbox
In-Reply-To: <47C056D2.8040202@gmail.com>
References: <PC176020080223091058067106ee83b9@msapiro>
	<47C056D2.8040202@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3e630135c6d@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/23/08, Odieresis [Gmail] wrote:

>  Now my question is how to handle a large mailbox file. Maybe it's a dumb
>  question, I can't open the file with mutt or emacs, I think these are
>  unavailable on my virtual server.

You may need to talk to your service provider to find out what tools 
they do have available which would be able to meet the specified 
requirements.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Feb 23 21:20:18 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:20:18 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delete message in large mbox
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008022309302803435c980213@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008022309302803435c980213@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240802c3e6303d665f@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/23/08, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  You could try ed, ex, vi or vim, or you could just edit the individual
>  HTML message per the last section in the revised FAQ.

My recollection is that ed, ex, and the original vi cannot handle 
arbitrarily long lines or binary content, and don't work well with 
large files.  I believe that "nvi" and "vim" as alternatives to the 
original "vi" should be able to do these things just fine, as would 
emacs (and the various derivatives).

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Feb 23 21:21:54 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:21:54 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delete message in large mbox
In-Reply-To: <47C05B6B.9050209@gmail.com>
References: <PC17602008022309302803435c980213@msapiro>
	<47C05B6B.9050209@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240803c3e6308b78ae@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/23/08, Odieresis [Gmail] wrote:

>  I don't want to edit the html files and leave the message in the mailbox.

Fair enough.

>  I tried to use vim, but it's a too long file to manage (I don't know how
>  to do, too).

Vim should be able to handle it.  If vim can't handle it, you may be 
left with no other viable option.  Again, you need to talk to your 
provider.

>  It will be nice if I can download and edit the mbox file or use such a
>  mailbox manager online.

We don't provide any such service, and I don't know of anyone who 
does.  Moreover, I don't know of any such tools you could use to edit 
the file locally which would meet the necessary requirements, other 
than the exact same tools you could already use to edit the file 
in-place on your server.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Sun Feb 24 14:22:43 2008
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:22:43 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving a list from 2.1.9.CP2 to 2.1.9
Message-ID: <FE4F9D11AF6A6744AA0CE43248CEC0D80D83EF@elrond.hodgsonfamily.org>

Hi,

I have a host running Debian Etch with Mailman 2.1.9, and everything is
honky dory.  However, I need to transfer a list from a host running
Mailman 2.1.9.CP2, and the owner of that list is a bit worried about the
downgrade of Mailman to 2.1.9.  I have looked everywhere for the CP2
version, but can't find it on the Mailman website, and Google searches
have just got me Mailman pages from hosts running that version - there
are quite a number.

Is there any difference between the two versions, or is the CP2 version
just used in a specific Distro?  I did check to see if I was on the
latest version from Etch, and would prefer to keep this version, as it
is updated as required when doing a system update in Debian.

Also, is there anything I should be worried about when transferring from
the list?  The users have limited shell access so far, so I am going to
be looking at that on Monday, if possible getting the ISP to tar up the
various list/archive files from /var/lib/mailman or the like.

Any help gratefully received.
Thanks,
Andrew.

From brian at emwd.com  Sun Feb 24 14:35:01 2008
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:35:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving a list from 2.1.9.CP2 to 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <FE4F9D11AF6A6744AA0CE43248CEC0D80D83EF@elrond.hodgsonfamily.org>
References: <FE4F9D11AF6A6744AA0CE43248CEC0D80D83EF@elrond.hodgsonfamily.org>
Message-ID: <003f01c876ea$10428980$30c79c80$@com>

> Hi,
> 
> I have a host running Debian Etch with Mailman 2.1.9, and everything is
> honky dory.  However, I need to transfer a list from a host running
> Mailman 2.1.9.CP2, and the owner of that list is a bit worried about
> the
> downgrade of Mailman to 2.1.9.  I have looked everywhere for the CP2
> version, but can't find it on the Mailman website, and Google searches
> have just got me Mailman pages from hosts running that version - there
> are quite a number.
> 
> Is there any difference between the two versions, or is the CP2 version
> just used in a specific Distro?  I did check to see if I was on the
> latest version from Etch, and would prefer to keep this version, as it
> is updated as required when doing a system update in Debian.


The cp2 version means that your list is on a cPanel server that is running
mailman. It's not a newer version but a modified one to fit in with the way
cPanel runs things on their servers. So technically it's not a downgrade at
all.


Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"





From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Sun Feb 24 14:41:21 2008
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:41:21 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving a list from 2.1.9.CP2 to 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <003f01c876ea$10428980$30c79c80$@com>
References: <FE4F9D11AF6A6744AA0CE43248CEC0D80D83EF@elrond.hodgsonfamily.org>
	<003f01c876ea$10428980$30c79c80$@com>
Message-ID: <FE4F9D11AF6A6744AA0CE43248CEC0D80D83F1@elrond.hodgsonfamily.org>

Hi Brian,

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Carpenter [mailto:brian at emwd.com] 
Sent: 24 February 2008 13:35
To: Andrew Hodgson; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Moving a list from 2.1.9.CP2 to 2.1.9

>Andrew Hodgson wrote:
>> Hi,
 
[...]
 
>> Is there any difference between the two versions, or is the CP2
version
>> just used in a specific Distro?  I did check to see if I was on the
>> latest version from Etch, and would prefer to keep this version, as
it
>> is updated as required when doing a system update in Debian.

>The cp2 version means that your list is on a cPanel server that is
running
>mailman. It's not a newer version but a modified one to fit in with the
way
>cPanel runs things on their servers. So technically it's not a
downgrade at
>all.

Ok, thanks for that.  Is that going to make things more complex to
transfer the list, as this machine is hosted by the ISP, and I think
they only use the web interface to access the configurations for
websites, email accounts etc.  If I do get shell access, as this list is
running on the CPanel environment, will various directories be different
etc?

At least I have a clearer set of searches to do now :).

Thanks.
Andrew. 


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 24 16:52:03 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 07:52:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving a list from 2.1.9.CP2 to 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <FE4F9D11AF6A6744AA0CE43248CEC0D80D83F1@elrond.hodgsonfamily.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008022407520305463ffef345@msapiro>

Andrew Hodgson wrote:
>
>Ok, thanks for that.  Is that going to make things more complex to
>transfer the list, as this machine is hosted by the ISP, and I think
>they only use the web interface to access the configurations for
>websites, email accounts etc.  If I do get shell access, as this list is
>running on the CPanel environment, will various directories be different
>etc?

A bit of this (where to find the files) is answered at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

There will be other issues. One of the cPanel mods is support for lists
of the "same" name in separate virtual domains. This is done by
actually naming the list listname_domain. I'm not sure of all the
steps required to move a cPanel 'listname_domain' list to a non cPanel
'listname' list, but
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.070.htp>
may help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From MelindaSavoy at texashealth.org  Sun Feb 24 19:59:22 2008
From: MelindaSavoy at texashealth.org (savoym)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 10:59:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Export mail list users
Message-ID: <15667728.post@talk.nabble.com>


Is there a way to export the list of email addresses from a mailing list that
I have setup via the CPANEL gui tool?

Thanks.
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Export-mail-list-users-tp15667728p15667728.html
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 24 20:13:44 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:13:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Export mail list users
In-Reply-To: <15667728.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080224111344014022459d58@msapiro>

savoym <MelindaSavoy at texashealth.org> wrote:
>
>Is there a way to export the list of email addresses from a mailing list that
>I have setup via the CPANEL gui tool?

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>
and
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From MelindaSavoy at texashealth.org  Sun Feb 24 20:53:57 2008
From: MelindaSavoy at texashealth.org (Savoy, Melinda)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:53:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Export mail list users
References: <PC176020080224111344014022459d58@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1E0303C17A3EE54B88409683E033F482020E0615@phdex03.txhealth.org>

Mark,

Thanks for the direction. Appreciate the help.


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Sun 2/24/2008 13:13
To: Savoy, Melinda; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users]  Export mail list users
 
savoym <MelindaSavoy at texashealth.org> wrote:
>
>Is there a way to export the list of email addresses from a mailing list that
>I have setup via the CPANEL gui tool?

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>
and
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan





The information contained in this message and any attachments is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from copying, distributing, or using the information.  Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete the original message from your system.

From odieresis at gmail.com  Mon Feb 25 12:43:16 2008
From: odieresis at gmail.com (Odieresis [Gmail])
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 12:43:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delete message in large mbox
In-Reply-To: <p06240803c3e6308b78ae@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <PC17602008022309302803435c980213@msapiro>
	<47C05B6B.9050209@gmail.com>
	<p06240803c3e6308b78ae@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <47C2A9D4.4000503@gmail.com>

Brad Knowles ha scritto:
> Vim should be able to handle it.  If vim can't handle it, you may be 
> left with no other viable option.  Again, you need to talk to your 
> provider.

I'm trying to edit the .mbox with Vim, I hope to do any mistakes.
Thank you for your detailed answers.



From anthuman at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 25 14:35:44 2008
From: anthuman at yahoo.com (Anthony Human)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 05:35:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Archives page not updating
Message-ID: <614373.50802.qm@web36610.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello

I'm relatively new to mailman. I've searched the mailman lists and tried to find a solution to my issue
but nothing.
Has anyone encountered the below issue and could offer some help.

I recently moved mailman from one server to another.I tarred up the old archives and moved 
them to the new server, and simply untarred them into:

/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/[list-name]

The system has been running for a few months now and I have noticed that the archives 
list doesn't show anything past the month when I moved over to the new server.
When I log onto the server, I can see the messages in .txt files for the following months after the move.
However, when I vi the index.html it looks the same as the site i.e. no months following the server move.
Is there a command I can run to update the archives webpage? Ideally I would like the archives webpage to update
automatically again.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
Anthony



      ___________________________________________________________ 
Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good  

http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 25 17:21:32 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:21:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Archives page not updating
In-Reply-To: <614373.50802.qm@web36610.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802250821320390798b8ba6@msapiro>

Anthony Human wrote:
>
>I recently moved mailman from one server to another.I tarred up the old archives and moved 
>them to the new server, and simply untarred them into:
>
>/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/[list-name]


That's your first problem. The archives are always in the
archives/private/ directory. The archives/public/ directory just
contains symlinks to the corresponding archives/private/[list-name]
directories.

Also did you move /archives/private/[list-name].mbox/ from the old
server. If not, you will never be able to rebuild your complete
archive from scratch.


>The system has been running for a few months now and I have noticed that the archives 
>list doesn't show anything past the month when I moved over to the new server.
>When I log onto the server, I can see the messages in .txt files for the following months after the move.
>However, when I vi the index.html it looks the same as the site i.e. no months following the server move.
>Is there a command I can run to update the archives webpage? Ideally I would like the archives webpage to update
>automatically again.


First you need to straighten out your archive file locations. You
should have

archives/private/[list-name]/     containing the html archives and
                                  pipermail data for the list.

archives/private/[list-name].mbox/[list-name].mbox
                                  the cumulative .mbox archive

archives/public/[list-name]       a symlink to
                                  archives/private/[list-name] but if
                                  the symlink doesn't exist, Mailman
                                  will create it for a public archive
                                  the first time the list is accessed.

Then, if as I suspect,
archives/private/[list-name].mbox/[list-name].mbox contains only the
post-move messages, you can add those to the html archive with

  bin/arch

If archives/private/[list-name].mbox/[list-name].mbox contains all the
list messages from the beginning, or you can piece together one that
does, then you can do

  bin/arch --wipe

to completely initialize and rebuild the html archive.

It is a good idea to first check the .mbox file with bin/cleanarch.

See 'bin/arch --help' and 'bin/cleanarch --help'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From audit at c2security.org  Mon Feb 25 17:21:20 2008
From: audit at c2security.org (audit)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 11:21:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] multiple vhosting for lists
Message-ID: <47C2EB00.9070009@c2security.org>

Right now I have a multiple lists setup for hosting mail lists off one 
of my hosted sites, I would like to add another domain to host mail 
lists from now also. Under my /usr/local/etc/postfix/transport I have

domain.com mailman:

Can I just add the other domain.tld mailman: to the transport file and 
run postmap /usr/local/etc/postfix/transport

and then in my mm.cfg.py add another line below my current one

add_virtualhost('www.domain.com', 'domain.com')

add_virtualhost('www.newdomain.com', 'newdomain.com')

and then restart mailman?

This is on FreeBSD 6.3 with Mailman 2.1.9 installed from ports.

Thanks




From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 25 17:52:45 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:52:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] multiple vhosting for lists
In-Reply-To: <47C2EB00.9070009@c2security.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802250852450484291a4a71@msapiro>

audit wrote:

>Right now I have a multiple lists setup for hosting mail lists off one 
>of my hosted sites, I would like to add another domain to host mail 
>lists from now also. Under my /usr/local/etc/postfix/transport I have
>
>domain.com mailman:
>
>Can I just add the other domain.tld mailman: to the transport file and 
>run postmap /usr/local/etc/postfix/transport


It depends what your 'mailman' transport does.


>and then in my mm.cfg.py add another line below my current one
>
>add_virtualhost('www.domain.com', 'domain.com')
>
>add_virtualhost('www.newdomain.com', 'newdomain.com')
>
>and then restart mailman?


That's all you need to do in Mailman.

Whether or not you need to do anything in your web server configuration
depends on whether or not the existing Mailman stuff will apply to the
www.newdomain.com virtual host.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From audit at c2security.org  Mon Feb 25 18:39:36 2008
From: audit at c2security.org (audit)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 12:39:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] multiple vhosting for lists
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200802250852450484291a4a71@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200802250852450484291a4a71@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47C2FD58.10909@c2security.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> audit wrote:
>
>   
>> Right now I have a multiple lists setup for hosting mail lists off one 
>> of my hosted sites, I would like to add another domain to host mail 
>> lists from now also. Under my /usr/local/etc/postfix/transport I have
>>
>> domain.com mailman:
>>
>> Can I just add the other domain.tld mailman: to the transport file and 
>> run postmap /usr/local/etc/postfix/transport
>>     
>
>
> It depends what your 'mailman' transport does.
>
>   
The above entry is the only entry in my transport file. I have lists for 
the primary domain in the server that work fine and I didn't need to add 
the

domain.com mailman:

entry in until I was having problems trying to some mail lists over to a hosted domain on the server.


>   
>> and then in my mm.cfg.py add another line below my current one
>>
>> add_virtualhost('www.domain.com', 'domain.com')
>>
>> add_virtualhost('www.newdomain.com', 'newdomain.com')
>>
>> and then restart mailman?
>>     
>
>
> That's all you need to do in Mailman.
>
> Whether or not you need to do anything in your web server configuration
> depends on whether or not the existing Mailman stuff will apply to the
> www.newdomain.com virtual host.
>
>   
I believe I only need to add
        ScriptAlias /mailman   "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin"
        Alias       /pipermail "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public"
to the new domain's apache vhost conf for that domain and reload apache.





From b19141 at britaine.cis.anl.gov  Mon Feb 25 18:43:58 2008
From: b19141 at britaine.cis.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 11:43:58 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delete message in large mbox
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Brad Knowles <brad@shub-internet.org>'
	dated: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:21:54 -0600
Message-ID: <200802251743.m1PHhw5Z001846@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

>  I tried to use vim, but it's a too long file to manage (I don't know how
>  to do, too).

I have not had as chance to read this entire thread from the weekend,
so maybe what I have to say has already been said.

I once had to processs a 1+Gb mbox file where there had been a
mail loop, which caused the mbox file to grow in size.  The owner
wanted to save all of the non-looping mail in the mbox.

I ended up using head, tail, grep, and a few other Unix utilities
to find the wanted mail and extract it into a new mbox file.
It would have been easier to use vi or vim, but the file was too large.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From odieresis at gmail.com  Mon Feb 25 18:59:24 2008
From: odieresis at gmail.com (Odieresis [Gmail])
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:59:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delete message in large mbox
In-Reply-To: <200802251743.m1PHhw5Z001846@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
References: <200802251743.m1PHhw5Z001846@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <47C301FC.7080202@gmail.com>


Barry Finkel ha scritto:
>> I ended up using head, tail, grep, and a few other Unix utilities
>> to find the wanted mail and extract it into a new mbox file.
>> It would have been easier to use vi or vim, but the file was too large.

I didn't do any changes yet, I was working on other projects.
Vim is a new utility for me, but there's a useful guide I can use to do 
what I need for now. Your example makes me think I have to worry about 
the future growth of the mailbox and how to handle it with different 
utilities I don't know.

Do you think there is an easier way to do these cleanings? A sort of 
webmail interface?



From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb 25 19:42:45 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:42:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] multiple vhosting for lists
In-Reply-To: <47C2FD58.10909@c2security.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008022510424509681c77e715@msapiro>

audit wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> audit wrote:
>>
>>> Can I just add the other domain.tld mailman: to the transport file and 
>>> run postmap /usr/local/etc/postfix/transport
>>>     
>>
>>
>> It depends what your 'mailman' transport does.
>>
>>   
>The above entry is the only entry in my transport file. I have lists for 
>the primary domain in the server that work fine and I didn't need to add 
>the
>
>domain.com mailman:
>
>entry in until I was having problems trying to some mail lists over to a hosted domain on the server.



I still have no idea what you're doing because this is not at all the
usual way of handling virtual domains with Mailman in Postfix, but a
line such as

domain.com mailman:

in the transport file requires a definition of the 'mailman' transport
in main.cf. Depending on what that transport does, this may or may not
work with a second domain.


>>   
>>> and then in my mm.cfg.py add another line below my current one
>>>
>>> add_virtualhost('www.domain.com', 'domain.com')
>>>
>>> add_virtualhost('www.newdomain.com', 'newdomain.com')
>>>
>>> and then restart mailman?
>>>     
>>
>>
>> That's all you need to do in Mailman.


Actually, if you are configuring Mailman/Postfix integration with
virtual hosts, you may also need to add 'newdomain.com' to the
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS list in mm_cfg.py

See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html>.


>> Whether or not you need to do anything in your web server configuration
>> depends on whether or not the existing Mailman stuff will apply to the
>> www.newdomain.com virtual host.
>>
>>   
>I believe I only need to add
>        ScriptAlias /mailman   "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin"
>        Alias       /pipermail "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public"
>to the new domain's apache vhost conf for that domain and reload apache.


That seems right, but you may need

<Directory "/path/to/archives/public">
    Options +FollowSymLinks
</Directory>

unless it is already explicit or implicit in global settings.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Feb 25 21:37:02 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 05:37:02 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delete message in large mbox
In-Reply-To: <47C301FC.7080202@gmail.com>
References: <200802251743.m1PHhw5Z001846@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
	<47C301FC.7080202@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87y798pyc1.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Odieresis [Gmail] writes:

 > Do you think there is an easier way to do these cleanings? A sort of 
 > webmail interface?

Maybe this could be done in the long run, but the problem is finding a
given message in the large mailbox.  This can't be done effectively
over the web.  If you have shell access, I would use Python to set up
the mbox file as a Python mailbox object, then loop over messages
saving each to a copy mbox until you find similar to the one (eg,
matching subject) you're looking for, let the user choose whether to
skip that, and continue until done.  (Sorry, I don't have code off the
top of my head.)


From najnehoc at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 26 00:38:39 2008
From: najnehoc at yahoo.com (Jan Cohen)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 15:38:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Introduction, and another archive question
Message-ID: <690281.76795.qm@web55402.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Hi folks,

I'm a "well-versed in perl/php but doesn't know squat about python" information architect/sr. tech writer who's volunteered his time to help the Interaction Design Association (IxDA) straighten out a few quirks with their Mailman-based mailing list.  The question: is there any way (e.g., custom handlers) to add a link to the footers of smtp-generated messages that would allow readers to navigate to a specific thread in the IxDA's web-based archive?  We've been able to set up the indexing for mail generated via the IxDA's web-based app satisfactorily, but we haven't been able to find an answer to the indexing question for mail that's sent to the list via an email app.  A more detailed description of our setup follows:



Here's how our current system works. Everything starts with
the Mailman listserv. All member messages addressed to discuss at ixda.org go
through Mailman. It mails them back out to the entire membership and at the
same time creates an HTML archive of the message. That archive is here:


http://tinyurl.com/3b9zm8


( http://tinyurl.com/33ek3s is the link what's actually presented on the web)




When Mailman creates the individual HTML page for a particular message, it
assigns a sequential unique id and embeds it in the filename for the created
page. About a year ago we started scraping those HTML archives and putting the
contents of messages in a database and using them to drive the website at
ixda.org. The unique ids we use for our posts are based on the unique ids Mailman
generates.



The problem is, the unique ids don't exist until after Mailman sends out the
e-mail to the list, so it's not clear how to embed them in the e-mail
beforehand. On the web we have an advantage. We don't need to embed the actual
post id, which is unknowable in advance; we only have to embed the id of the
initial post in the thread, which we already know at the time of composition.
We append that link onto the body of the message before we send the e-mail from
the website to Mailman.



Members who send e-mail directly to discuss@ get their e-mails redistributed
through Mailman directly without an opportunity to add any link to the e-mail.
Even if we had a way to know the post id to embed, it's not clear whether it's
possible to create a dynamic footer of any kind in Mailman.



Any idea for other ways to structure the system?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Jan Cohen
 






From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 26 02:17:48 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:17:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Introduction, and another archive question
In-Reply-To: <690281.76795.qm@web55402.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080225171748043724385805@msapiro>

Jan Cohen wrote:
>
>Here's how our current system works. Everything starts with
>the Mailman listserv. All member messages addressed to discuss at ixda.org go
>through Mailman. It mails them back out to the entire membership and at the
>same time creates an HTML archive of the message. That archive is here:
>
>
>http://tinyurl.com/3b9zm8
>
>
>( http://tinyurl.com/33ek3s is the link what's actually presented on the web)
>
>
>
>
>When Mailman creates the individual HTML page for a particular message, it
>assigns a sequential unique id and embeds it in the filename for the created
>page. About a year ago we started scraping those HTML archives and putting the
>contents of messages in a database and using them to drive the website at
>ixda.org. The unique ids we use for our posts are based on the unique ids Mailman
>generates.
>
>
>
>The problem is, the unique ids don't exist until after Mailman sends out the
>e-mail to the list, so it's not clear how to embed them in the e-mail
>beforehand.


Even Mailman doesn't know them when it sends the message to the list.


>On the web we have an advantage. We don't need to embed the actual
>post id, which is unknowable in advance; we only have to embed the id of the
>initial post in the thread, which we already know at the time of composition.
>We append that link onto the body of the message before we send the e-mail from
>the website to Mailman.
>
>
>
>Members who send e-mail directly to discuss@ get their e-mails redistributed
>through Mailman directly without an opportunity to add any link to the e-mail.
>Even if we had a way to know the post id to embed, it's not clear whether it's
>possible to create a dynamic footer of any kind in Mailman.


You can create 'dynamic' footers, but without modifying the Decorate.py
handler, you are limited as to what dynamic content can be in them.

In the current Mailman archiving system and architecture, it's just not
possible for the mail delivery process to know the id of the message
in the archive.

This issue has been discussed at length on the
Mailman-Developers at python.org list. See the threads with subject
"Improving the archives" at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/> for July
through November, 2007.

There will be improvement in the Mailman 3.0 time frame.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From najnehoc at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 26 02:49:43 2008
From: najnehoc at yahoo.com (Jan Cohen)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:49:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Introduction, and another archive question
Message-ID: <745019.67517.qm@web55405.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Thanks for that info, Mark.

Any idea of how close (or far away) the 3.0 release is?

Jan C.

----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
To: Jan Cohen <najnehoc at yahoo.com>; mailman-users at python.org
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 8:17:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Introduction, and another archive question

In 
the 
current 
Mailman 
archiving 
system 
and 
architecture, 
it's 
just 
not
possible 
for 
the 
mail 
delivery 
process 
to 
know 
the 
id 
of 
the 
message
in 
the 
archive.

There 
will 
be 
improvement 
in 
the 
Mailman 
3.0 
time 
frame.




From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 26 03:17:46 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:17:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Introduction, and another archive question
In-Reply-To: <745019.67517.qm@web55405.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080225181746057811d91130@msapiro>

Jan Cohen wrote:
>
>Any idea of how close (or far away) the 3.0 release is?


The best information is at
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+3.0>.

At present it says "There is currently no ETA for Mailman 3, but
development is moving quickly."

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Feb 26 04:14:30 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 21:14:30 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delete message in large mbox
In-Reply-To: <47C301FC.7080202@gmail.com>
References: <200802251743.m1PHhw5Z001846@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
	<47C301FC.7080202@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c3e9344d7d63@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/25/08, Odieresis [Gmail] wrote:

>  I didn't do any changes yet, I was working on other projects.
>  Vim is a new utility for me, but there's a useful guide I can use to do
>  what I need for now. Your example makes me think I have to worry about
>  the future growth of the mailbox and how to handle it with different
>  utilities I don't know.

You do want to break the raw archive file periodically -- as in move 
the old archive file aside and start a new one, then reload Mailman. 
You don't want the file to grow so large that it can't be edited.

>  Do you think there is an easier way to do these cleanings? A sort of
>  webmail interface?

Mailman does not currently have any such tools, no.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From Vladislav.Rames at asseco.cz  Tue Feb 26 14:17:27 2008
From: Vladislav.Rames at asseco.cz (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Rame=B9_Vladislav?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 14:17:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Solved: smtp-failure: 'Addres family was not
	recognized or	address length wasinvalid'
Message-ID: <3A00E171CBC2CC4B8FEDAA85D127CBF1F434CB@cbuw00.pvt.cz>

Thank you very much for your answer, it start working
properly when I had defined SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT in 
mm_cfg.py how you adviced (SMTPHOST='t2.pvt.cz', 
SMTPPORT='25'). 

Have a nice day.

Vladislav Rames


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 5:04 PM
> To: Rame? Vladislav
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] smtp-failure: 'Addres family was 
> not recognized or address length wasinvalid'
> 
> Ramea Vladislav wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I tried to run mailman 2.1.9 with postfix 2.0.16 on Alpha 
> TRU64 UNIX 5.1A.
> > Unfortunately, when I tried to subscribe to my test 
> conference, I got this errors to smtp-failure file:
> > 
> > ...
> > Feb 12 16:57:08 2008 (250559) delivery to root[at]t2.pvt.cz failed 
> > with code -1: (5, 'Addres family was not recognized or 
> address length 
> > was invalid.') Feb 12 16:57:08 2008 (250559) Low level smtp 
> error: (5, 
> > 'Addres family was not recognized or address length was invalid.'), 
> > msgid: <mailman.292.1202831704.250529.mailman[at]t2.pvt.cz>
> > Feb 12 16:57:08 2008 (250559) delivery to root[at]t2.pvt.cz failed 
> > with code -1: (5, 'Addres family was not recognized or 
> address length 
> > was invalid.') Feb 12 17:00:02 2008 (250559) Low level smtp 
> error: (5, 
> > 'Addres family was not recognized or address length was invalid.'), 
> > msgid: <mailman.293.1202832001.250529.mailman[at]t2.pvt.cz>
> > ...
> 
> 
> These errors are reported from the outgoing MTA to Mailman 
> when Mailman tries to send a message (in this case to 
> root[at]t2.pvt.cz).
> 
> 
> > In Postfix maillog subscriptions looks like "send":
> > 
> > ...
> > t2.pvt.cz# tail mail.log
> > Feb 13 09:05:00 t2 postfix/pickup[256660]: 5411D4DE: uid=0 
> from=<root> Feb 13 09:05:00 t2 postfix/cleanup[256788]: 
> 5411D4DE: message-id=<20080213080500.5411D4DE[at]t2.pvt.cz>
> > Feb 13 09:05:00 t2 postfix/qmgr[250778]: 5411D4DE: 
> from=<root[at]t2.pvt.cz>, size=346, nrcpt=1 (queue active) 
> Feb 13 09:05:00 t2 postfix/local[256800]: warning: 
> dict_nis_init: NIS domain name not set - NIS lookups disabled 
> Feb 13 09:05:01 t2 postfix/local[256800]: 5411D4DE: 
> to=<mailman[at]t2.pvt.cz>, orig_to=<mailman>, relay=local, 
> delay=1, status=sent ("|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post 
> mailman") Feb 13 09:10:00 t2 postfix/pickup[256660]: 
> B1DA54DE: uid=0 from=<root> Feb 13 09:10:00 t2 
> postfix/cleanup[256817]: B1DA54DE: 
> message-id=<20080213081000.B1DA54DE[at]t2.pvt.cz>
> > Feb 13 09:10:00 t2 postfix/qmgr[250778]: B1DA54DE: 
> from=<root[at]t2.pvt.cz>, size=346, nrcpt=1 (queue active) 
> Feb 13 09:10:00 t2 postfix/local[256815]: warning: 
> dict_nis_init: NIS domain name not set - NIS lookups disabled 
> Feb 13 09:10:01 t2 postfix/local[256815]: B1DA54DE: 
> to=<mailman[at]t2.pvt.cz>, orig_to=<mailman>, relay=local, 
> delay=1, status=sent ("|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post 
> mailman") ...
> 
> 
> These log entries are the delivery of posts to Mailman and represent 
> sucessfull deliveries despite the warnings.
> 
> 
> > When I tried mailman with sendmail, result was the same 
> (the same error messages in smtp-failure file). 
> 
> 
> Which indicates that the outgoing MTA Mailman is talking to 
> is neither 
> sendmail nor Postfix.
> 
> 
> > Sending and receiving e-mails to/from users on this server 
> (t2.pvt.cz) works properly.
> > 
> > I tried to find in conferences error message "Addres family 
> was not recognized or address length was invalid." with 
> "mailman", but withouth usable result.
> 
> It is not a Mailman message. It comes from the MTA.
> 
> Have you redefined SMTPHOST and/or SMTPPORT in mm_cfg.py. If not, 
> Mailman is trying to send via SMTP to 'localhost' port 25. 
> What happens 
> if you 'telnet localhost 25'? What MTA answers?
> 
> Also see 
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.
073.htp>.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 
> 

From listeyon at metu.edu.tr  Tue Feb 26 16:33:48 2008
From: listeyon at metu.edu.tr (liste yoneticisi)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:33:48 +0200 (WET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] dividing list mbox
In-Reply-To: <000c01c6d247$e4416600$0301a8c0@endurance>
References: <20060906010502.eyux3ept1k4wsssw@sbscomp.net>
	<000c01c6d247$e4416600$0301a8c0@endurance>
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.58.0802261731120.291034@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>

Hello;

How can i divide the file "listname.mbox" in the directory
"listname.mbox/" by day.

I heard that it is possible as configuring listserver. But i couldn't find
it.
Can you help me?

Thank you.

Evrim AKMAN

        # The archive file structure by default is:
        #
        # archives/
        #     private/
        #         listname.mbox/
        #             listname.mbox
        #         listname/
        #             lots-of-pipermail-stuff
        #     public/
        #         listname.mbox@ -> ../private/listname.mbox
        #         listname@ -> ../private/listname



----------------
Liste Yoneticisi
http://e-list.cc.metu.edu.tr
http://e-liste.bidb.odtu.edu.tr


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 26 17:24:39 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 08:24:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] dividing list mbox
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.4.58.0802261731120.291034@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>
Message-ID: <PC17602008022608243900464c5df935@msapiro>

liste yoneticisi wrote:
>
>How can i divide the file "listname.mbox" in the directory
>"listname.mbox/" by day.


Set up a cron job to run at daily at 23:59 and do something like

#!/bin/bash
suffix=`date +%Y%m%d`
sleep 60
if [[ -f /path/to/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox ]]
   then mv /path/to/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox \
     /path/to/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox.$suffix
fi

Although you'd probably want to break it into subdirectories by month
and possibly year so as not to accumulate too many files in one
directory.

Moving the file aside is not a problem for the archiver which will just
create a new one the next time it archives a message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 26 17:39:12 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 08:39:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] dividing list mbox
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008022608243900464c5df935@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC176020080226083912015699a0d2e8@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>liste yoneticisi wrote:
>>
>>How can i divide the file "listname.mbox" in the directory
>>"listname.mbox/" by day.
>
>
>Set up a cron job to run at daily at 23:59 and do something like
>
>#!/bin/bash
>suffix=`date +%Y%m%d`
>sleep 60
>if [[ -f /path/to/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox ]]
>   then mv /path/to/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox \
>     /path/to/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox.$suffix
>fi
>
>Although you'd probably want to break it into subdirectories by month
>and possibly year so as not to accumulate too many files in one
>directory.
>
>Moving the file aside is not a problem for the archiver which will just
>create a new one the next time it archives a message.


I neglected to address

>>I heard that it is possible as configuring listserver. But i couldn't find
>>it.


There is no configuration option for this. Perhaps you are thinking of
the list's archive_volume_frequency which can be set to 'Daily' to
create a new archive index and pseudo mbox .txt file on a daily basis.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org  Tue Feb 26 18:40:05 2008
From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:40:05 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Specify different SMTP server
Message-ID: <FE4F9D11AF6A6744AA0CE43248CEC0D80D8425@elrond.hodgsonfamily.org>

Hi,

 

Reading previous emails seem to suggest I can make Mailman output to a
different SMTP server by changing the options in the configuration
files.  I would quite like to do this, as currently Mailman is on a
server which doesn't do much email, and the Exim on that machine outputs
to the destination SMTP server in any case.

 

My only question is: Is this a common deployment, and what happens if
the destination SMTP server is down?

 

Thanks.

Andrew.


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 26 19:56:11 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:56:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Specify different SMTP server
In-Reply-To: <FE4F9D11AF6A6744AA0CE43248CEC0D80D8425@elrond.hodgsonfamily.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802261056110546138655ed@msapiro>

Andrew Hodgson wrote:
>
>Reading previous emails seem to suggest I can make Mailman output to a
>different SMTP server by changing the options in the configuration
>files.  I would quite like to do this, as currently Mailman is on a
>server which doesn't do much email, and the Exim on that machine outputs
>to the destination SMTP server in any case.


You can set SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT in mm_cfg.py to use any server/port
that will relay your mail.


>My only question is: Is this a common deployment, and what happens if
>the destination SMTP server is down?


I don't know how common it is. One use is to set Mailman to use a port
other than 25 but still on localhost so the MTA can treat Mailman's
mail differently.

If the server, whether remote or local, is down, Mailman will see an
error when trying to connect. This will be logged in Mailman's
smtp-failure log, probably as a 'low level smtp error', and the
delivery will be retried at 15 minute intervals until it either
succeeds or DELIVERY_RETRY_PERIOD (default 5 days) elapses.

Note that Defaults.py also contains a setting for DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT,
but this is not used. The 15 minutes is hard coded in RetryRunner.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From vytenis at lss.lt  Tue Feb 26 18:51:44 2008
From: vytenis at lss.lt (Vytenis Tamakauskas)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:51:44 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman postfix mysql
Message-ID: <53881.78.62.75.243.1204048304.squirrel@mail.lss.lt>

Hello,

I have problem, In my mail server are postfix with mysql, witch handles
many user accunts and few dommains.

I need to make mailing list in that server, and i dont find any info about
that how to set up postfix + mysql + mailman and make them work together,
or some other way to create mailing list in this machine..

Please help!


Pagarbiai,

Vytenis Tamakauskas
Lietuvos studentu sajungos
Informaciniu technologiju projektu vadovas
E-pastas: vytenis at lss.lt
Skype: vytenis.t
Mob.: +37062130121, +37067577393
-----------
Lietuvos studentu sajunga
Gelezinio vilko g. 12, Vilnius, LT - 01112
tel.: 8 5 2685330, 2685331
faks.: 8 5 2611797
www.lss.lt


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Feb 26 20:10:57 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:10:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman postfix mysql
In-Reply-To: <53881.78.62.75.243.1204048304.squirrel@mail.lss.lt>
References: <53881.78.62.75.243.1204048304.squirrel@mail.lss.lt>
Message-ID: <200802261911.m1QJArac021614@unreal.eroded.org>

Vytenis Tamakauskas sent the message below at 09:51 2/26/2008:
>Hello,
>
>I have problem, In my mail server are postfix with mysql, witch handles
>many user accunts and few dommains.
>
>I need to make mailing list in that server, and i dont find any info about
>that how to set up postfix + mysql + mailman and make them work together,
>or some other way to create mailing list in this machine..
>
>Please help!
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

That is because there is no such "out of the box" configuration like 
that in Mailman at this point in time. I understand that there is 
some sort of plan to incorporate an RDBMS into Mailman in the 3.0 
branch but that is still a long way off before that happens.

I do know that some people have written scripts to extract e-mail 
addresses from their databases into plain text files to be used as 
input to Mailman's bin/sync_members script. Maybe this approach will 
work for you too.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb 26 20:18:55 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:18:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman postfix mysql
In-Reply-To: <53881.78.62.75.243.1204048304.squirrel@mail.lss.lt>
Message-ID: <PC17602008022611185507967dc53533@msapiro>

Vytenis Tamakauskas wrote:
>
>I need to make mailing list in that server, and i dont find any info about
>that how to set up postfix + mysql + mailman and make them work together,
>or some other way to create mailing list in this machine..


As far as I know, you can set up Postfix and Mailman using hash tables
for Mailman's aliases as described at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html> (mirror at
<http://mailman.sourceforge.net/mailman-install/node13.html>)
regardless of whether or not you are using MySQL for other purposes in
Postfix.

Is there some reason why you don't want to do this?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From yahoo at jimpop.com  Wed Feb 27 04:57:26 2008
From: yahoo at jimpop.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:57:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] dividing list mbox
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.4.58.0802261731120.291034@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>
References: <20060906010502.eyux3ept1k4wsssw@sbscomp.net>
	<000c01c6d247$e4416600$0301a8c0@endurance>
	<Pine.A41.4.58.0802261731120.291034@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>
Message-ID: <7ff145960802261957x3bd8300fmec5fcdc3a06a861e@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 10:33 AM, liste yoneticisi <listeyon at metu.edu.tr> wrote:
> Hello;
>
>  How can i divide the file "listname.mbox" in the directory
>  "listname.mbox/" by day.

http://www.openinfo.co.uk/mm/patches/dailymbox/index.html

hth,

-Jim P.

From zszalbot at gmail.com  Wed Feb 27 07:23:28 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:23:28 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] improper shutdown causes mailman not to start?
Message-ID: <94136a2c0802262223q27d32319v3ca379e3270882c2@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I rebooted my machine today and mailman wouldn't start.

Feb 27 06:46:56 2008 mailmanctl(692): The master qrunner lock could
not be acquired.  It appears as though there is
a stale master qrunner lock.  Try re-running mailmanctl with the -s flag.

Now could the reason be that mailman startup script did not have the -s flag?

mailman_start() {
        /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -q start
}

I removed it recently because I was having problem with two instances
of mailman at startup. But I then realized I had two different scripts
to start mailman so I removed one. I did not however change the main
(and now only) startup script in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/ to have the -s
flag included.

Many thanks!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

From listeyon at metu.edu.tr  Wed Feb 27 08:24:33 2008
From: listeyon at metu.edu.tr (liste yoneticisi)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:24:33 +0200 (WET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] dividing list mbox
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080226083912015699a0d2e8@msapiro>
References: <PC176020080226083912015699a0d2e8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.58.0802270920300.290884@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008, Mark Sapiro wrote:

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>liste yoneticisi wrote:
>>
>>How can i divide the file "listname.mbox" in the directory
>>"listname.mbox/" by day.
>
>
>Set up a cron job to run at daily at 23:59 and do something like
>
>#!/bin/bash
>suffix=`date +%Y%m%d`
>sleep 60
>if [[ -f /path/to/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox ]]
>   then mv /path/to/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox \
>     /path/to/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox.$suffix
>fi
>
>Although you'd probably want to break it into subdirectories by month
>and possibly year so as not to accumulate too many files in one
>directory.
>
>Moving the file aside is not a problem for the archiver which will just
>create a new one the next time it archives a message.


I neglected to address

>>I heard that it is possible as configuring listserver. But i couldn't find
>>it.


>There is no configuration option for this. Perhaps you are thinking of
>the list's archive_volume_frequency which can be set to 'Daily' to
>create a new archive index and pseudo mbox .txt file on a daily basis.

Thank you, you're right, that option divides

/path/to/archives/private/listname/<TIME RELATED DIRECTORY>

part. We configured as monthly, and using monarch.

We are trying to use htdig in order to archive search, but for a long time
(about months) we are unable to use it,

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From lists.mailman-users at duinheks.xs4all.nl  Wed Feb 27 12:46:52 2008
From: lists.mailman-users at duinheks.xs4all.nl (lists.mailman-users at duinheks.xs4all.nl)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:46:52 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change to new hostname?
Message-ID: <20080227114853.EC30F2013B0@duinheks.xs4all.nl>

Hallo mailman-users,

My system will get a different hostname soon.
How can I tell mailman that it has a new hostname?

Groeten,

           Hans.

jdh punt beekhuizen bij duinheks punt xs4all punt nl

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5/080211
 * Origin: The Wizard is using MBSE/Linux (2:280/1018)

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 27 15:50:00 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 06:50:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] improper shutdown causes mailman not to start?
In-Reply-To: <94136a2c0802262223q27d32319v3ca379e3270882c2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802270650000343a8c2f257@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>I rebooted my machine today and mailman wouldn't start.
>
>Feb 27 06:46:56 2008 mailmanctl(692): The master qrunner lock could
>not be acquired.  It appears as though there is
>a stale master qrunner lock.  Try re-running mailmanctl with the -s flag.
>
>Now could the reason be that mailman startup script did not have the -s flag?


Yes. You generally want that flag in a startup script. After a reboot,
it is guaranteed that all locks are stale as all the processes that
set them are gone, so you want the -s flag. I suggested removing it as
a debugging aid, not as a permanent change.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 27 16:00:09 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:00:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] dividing list mbox
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.4.58.0802270920300.290884@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>
Message-ID: <PC176020080227070009010909855736@msapiro>

liste yoneticisi wrote:
>
>We configured as monthly, and using monarch.
>
>We are trying to use htdig in order to archive search, but for a long time
>(about months) we are unable to use it,


Have you seen the various patches for Mailman/htDig integration and
Mailman/MHonArc integration at <http://www.openinfo.co.uk/mm/>?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb 27 16:18:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:18:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change to new hostname?
In-Reply-To: <20080227114853.EC30F2013B0@duinheks.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <PC176020080227071808003133192e87@msapiro>

lists.mailman-users at duinheks.xs4all.nl wrote:
>
>My system will get a different hostname soon.
>How can I tell mailman that it has a new hostname?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ganeshgajre at gmail.com  Wed Feb 27 21:01:22 2008
From: ganeshgajre at gmail.com (ganesh gajre)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 01:31:22 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <550c44e0802271201s61286269udc27d27828674891@mail.gmail.com>

hello sir.
 I like to subsribe mailman.

From ganeshgajre at gmail.com  Wed Feb 27 21:11:38 2008
From: ganeshgajre at gmail.com (ganesh gajre)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 01:41:38 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to make use of Notebook
Message-ID: <550c44e0802271211w1e9d0bd0m36e460b2760d412d@mail.gmail.com>

Hello ,
Iwant to know that how i can make a notebook of classes from different file.
Like,
I have written two class as python Script Main.py and Start.py. Start is my
first form and Main is second .
How to add both in one class using Notebook widget of PYGTK so whent Next
button is clicked it will open Main form.

Kindly give me reply.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Feb 28 04:03:51 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 21:03:51 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to make use of Notebook
In-Reply-To: <550c44e0802271211w1e9d0bd0m36e460b2760d412d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <550c44e0802271211w1e9d0bd0m36e460b2760d412d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3ebd4b7c090@[192.168.1.199]>

On 2/28/08, ganesh gajre wrote:

>  Iwant to know that how i can make a notebook of classes from different file.
>  Like,
>  I have written two class as python Script Main.py and Start.py. Start is my
>  first form and Main is second .
>  How to add both in one class using Notebook widget of PYGTK so whent Next
>  button is clicked it will open Main form.

This is the mailman-users mailing list, whose purpose is to allow 
community support for the Mailman mailing list management software, 
which happens to be written in Python.

This is not a mailing list to help you learn to program in Python, 
this is not a mailing list to ask reference questions about Python 
programming, etc....

For those kinds of things, you need to be looking at other mailing 
lists on python.org.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From lists.mailman-users at duinheks.xs4all.nl  Thu Feb 28 13:12:07 2008
From: lists.mailman-users at duinheks.xs4all.nl (lists.mailman-users at duinheks.xs4all.nl)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 13:12:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change to new hostname?
Message-ID: <20080228121321.1F1E22013D7@duinheks.xs4all.nl>

Hallo MArk,

Op woensdag 27 februari 2008 schreef Mark Sapiro aan
lists.mailman-users at duinheks.xs4al:

 >> My system will get a different hostname soon.
 >> How can I tell mailman that it has a new hostname?
 MS> See
 MS> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.02
 MS> 9.htp>.

Thank you!

Groeten,

           Hans.

jdh punt beekhuizen bij duinheks punt xs4all punt nl

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5/080211
 * Origin: The Wizard is using MBSE/Linux (2:280/1018)

From jcb+mmu at inf.ed.ac.uk  Thu Feb 28 13:54:10 2008
From: jcb+mmu at inf.ed.ac.uk (Julian Bradfield)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:54:10 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mass subscribe by email
Message-ID: <18374.44786.112925.920195@krk.inf.ed.ac.uk>

This appears to be a moderately FAQ, but I haven't yet found an answer
in the archives, and I can't immediately extract one from the source.


As a list owner, how do I *by email* subscribe a number of users, 
without requiring either their or my separate approval?
(The normal list setting is to require admin approval.)


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Feb 28 15:48:15 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 06:48:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mass subscribe by email
In-Reply-To: <18374.44786.112925.920195@krk.inf.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802280648150515964a7852@msapiro>

Julian Bradfield wrote:
>
>As a list owner, how do I *by email* subscribe a number of users, 
>without requiring either their or my separate approval?
>(The normal list setting is to require admin approval.)


You can't.

There is no email interface for list administration.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From chatty at flock.com  Thu Feb 28 17:57:26 2008
From: chatty at flock.com (Christopher Hatty)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 08:57:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation and Uncaught Bounce messages not being
	sent
Message-ID: <C3EC27F6.28138%chatty@flock.com>

Our mailman server stopped sending out the following notifications:

Uncaught Bounce notifications
Notification a sender gets when a post has been moderated
Notifications to moderators and list admins of any kind

I have NO idea what might have precipitated this. I'm not even sure when it
happened.

Can someone start me in a direction toward finding out?

Thanks
Christopher



From mikew at crucis.net  Thu Feb 28 21:03:24 2008
From: mikew at crucis.net (Mike - W0TMW)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 14:03:24 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman Installation
Message-ID: <47C7138C.5040505@crucis.net>

I've just started Mailman on a new Fedora 7 box.  It's been quite a 
while since I used MM, my previous box ran on RH9.

There are some things that I need to be refreshed and I haven't found 
them yet in the docs.

1. When creating a new list, must the maillist mail addresses be created 
manually? Can they be aliased to existing e-mail addresses?

2. I seem to remember that MM could be configured for broadcast only, 
i.e., for announcement to a fixed audience.  I don't see that option in 
the admin screens.  How would MM be configured for this use?

Any info will be appreciated.

Mike W

-- 
"Lose not thy airspeed lest the ground rises up and smites thee." - Anon.


From b19141 at britaine.cis.anl.gov  Thu Feb 28 21:47:04 2008
From: b19141 at britaine.cis.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 14:47:04 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman Installation
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Mike - W0TMW <mikew@crucis.net>'
	dated: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 14:03:24 -0600
Message-ID: <200802282047.m1SKl4IS004905@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

>Mike W. wrote:
>
>I've just started Mailman on a new Fedora 7 box.  It's been quite a 
>while since I used MM, my previous box ran on RH9.
>
>There are some things that I need to be refreshed and I haven't found 
>them yet in the docs.
>
>1. When creating a new list, must the maillist mail addresses be created 
>manually? Can they be aliased to existing e-mail addresses?
>
>2. I seem to remember that MM could be configured for broadcast only, 
>i.e., for announcement to a fixed audience.  I don't see that option in 
>the admin screens.  How would MM be configured for this use?

1. I do not understand the question.

2. Set the list to moderated:

        Privacy Options
             Sender filters
                  default_member_moderation ==> Yes
        Membership Management
             Membership List
                  Set everyone's moderation bit: On  Set
                  Turn off "Mod" for those members allowed to post.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From ki at knifecenter.com  Thu Feb 28 21:28:40 2008
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:28:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu/ISPConfig/Postfix/Mailman Installation Issues
Message-ID: <C3EC83A8.2ACA7%ki@knifecenter.com>

I recently installed the following:
Ubuntu
Apache
ISPConfig
Postfix
Mailman

As far as I know, Ubuntu, Apache, ISPConfig, and Postfix are running ok. I
verified this by:
- ssh'ing into the ubuntu server
- logging into the ISPConfig pages on the server using a browser
- sending/receiving email through the Postfix server

I believe I installed mailman properly using this guide:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Mailman

However, when I try to log into my installation of mailman using a browser:
http://www.myhostname.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin, there is a 404 error.

The only error message I see that may be relevant is:
NameVirtualHost myipaddress has no VirtualHosts mailman

What should I do?



From ki at knifecenter.com  Thu Feb 28 22:25:01 2008
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 16:25:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman DNS Issues
Message-ID: <C3EC90DD.2ACB5%ki@knifecenter.com>

I recently installed mailman on a new Ubuntu server.
The setup went through without a hitch ... Or so I thought.

When I try to log into my installation of mailman using a browser:
http://www.myhostname.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin, there is a 404 error page.

However, when I go to http://myipaddress/cgi-bin/mailman/admin
It works fine.

Is this a DNS issue?

The only error message I get when starting my server is the following:

NameVirtualHost myipaddress has no VirtualHosts mailman



From submit at zuka.net  Thu Feb 28 22:51:33 2008
From: submit at zuka.net (Dave Filchak)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 16:51:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ubuntu/ISPConfig/Postfix/Mailman Installation
 Issues
In-Reply-To: <C3EC83A8.2ACA7%ki@knifecenter.com>
References: <C3EC83A8.2ACA7%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <47C72CE5.6010906@zuka.net>

Ki Song wrote:
> I recently installed the following:
> Ubuntu
> Apache
> ISPConfig
> Postfix
> Mailman
>
> As far as I know, Ubuntu, Apache, ISPConfig, and Postfix are running ok. I
> verified this by:
> - ssh'ing into the ubuntu server
> - logging into the ISPConfig pages on the server using a browser
> - sending/receiving email through the Postfix server
>
> I believe I installed mailman properly using this guide:
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Mailman
>
> However, when I try to log into my installation of mailman using a browser:
> http://www.myhostname.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin, there is a 404 error.
>
> The only error message I see that may be relevant is:
> NameVirtualHost myipaddress has no VirtualHosts mailman
>
> What should I do?
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/submit%40zuka.net
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>   
I don't believe you need the cgi-bin here.

I think it should be  http://www.myhostname.com/mailman/admin

Dave

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Feb 28 23:13:21 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:13:21 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Mailman DNS Issues
In-Reply-To: <C3EC90DD.2ACB5%ki@knifecenter.com>
References: <C3EC90DD.2ACB5%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <87fxvclofy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Ki Song writes:

 > The only error message I get when starting my server is the following:
 > 
 > NameVirtualHost myipaddress has no VirtualHosts mailman

I don't know what the trailing "mailman" is about, but the above
basically means that as far as Apache is concerned you don't have any
"named" hosts.

If you have a NameVirtualHost directive for an IP address, all
configuration of the document tree outside of a VirtualHost directive
will be ignored; you won't have anything to serve to browsing
clients.  I thought the documentation implied that would apply to the
ipaddress too, but apparently you got lucky on that one.

See the Apache documentation for how to set up virtual hosts.


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 29 02:39:22 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:39:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman Installation
In-Reply-To: <47C7138C.5040505@crucis.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802281739220828b58d4d52@msapiro>

Mike - W0TMW wrote:

>I've just started Mailman on a new Fedora 7 box.  It's been quite a 
>while since I used MM, my previous box ran on RH9.
>
>There are some things that I need to be refreshed and I haven't found 
>them yet in the docs.
>
>1. When creating a new list, must the maillist mail addresses be created 
>manually? Can they be aliased to existing e-mail addresses?


No they can't be aliased to existing addresses. Whether there is a
manual process or not depends on your MTA. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.019.htp>,
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.049.htp>
and <http://mailman.sourceforge.net/mailman-install/node13.html>.


>2. I seem to remember that MM could be configured for broadcast only, 
>i.e., for announcement to a fixed audience.  I don't see that option in 
>the admin screens.  How would MM be configured for this use?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 29 02:45:50 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:45:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation and Uncaught Bounce messages not
	beingsent
In-Reply-To: <C3EC27F6.28138%chatty@flock.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802281745500343b58d4b89@msapiro>

Christopher Hatty wrote:

>Our mailman server stopped sending out the following notifications:
>
>Uncaught Bounce notifications
>Notification a sender gets when a post has been moderated
>Notifications to moderators and list admins of any kind
>
>I have NO idea what might have precipitated this. I'm not even sure when it
>happened.
>
>Can someone start me in a direction toward finding out?


My guess is VirginRunner has died and all the notices are in the virgin
queue.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>
for more on runners and queues. Also see Mailman's error and qrunner
logs for possible info related to the death of VirginRunner.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 29 02:55:24 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:55:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman DNS Issues
In-Reply-To: <C3EC90DD.2ACB5%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200802281755240812b58d4d44@msapiro>

Ki Song wrote:
>
>When I try to log into my installation of mailman using a browser:
>http://www.myhostname.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin, there is a 404 error page.
>
>However, when I go to http://myipaddress/cgi-bin/mailman/admin
>It works fine.
>
>Is this a DNS issue?


Maybe.


>The only error message I get when starting my server is the following:
>
>NameVirtualHost myipaddress has no VirtualHosts mailman


>From your other post, it seems you have installed an Ubuntu package
using Ubuntu documentation.

I suggest that you will find people more knowledgeable about your
particular situation by using Ubuntu support resources. 

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ratnaweera at dplanet.ch  Fri Feb 29 11:11:50 2008
From: ratnaweera at dplanet.ch (Visvanath Ratnaweera)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:11:50 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding old (majordomo) postings to a Mailman archive
Message-ID: <20080229101150.GA8487@mituru.zhaw.ch>

Hi all

Before changing to Mailman our list ran on majordomo. I still 
have those postings, in my IMAP mailbox, as a seperate directory.

My question is, how can I add those postings to the running list?

Chronological overlap is minimal. Only for the final month there 
are postings on both sides. Even if I have to delete the ones from 
the old archive, that's not a problem.

regards
Visvanath

From p.priscilap at ig.com.br  Fri Feb 29 13:46:41 2008
From: p.priscilap at ig.com.br (Priscila Gomes Pereira)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:46:41 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help to use
Message-ID: <ffce40f80802290446u138cd8dwf3580f9c07e6de92@mail.gmail.com>

I'm coordinator of an event and would like to use the Mailman. How can I do
it? I don't have a web server and my computer isn't Linux, is Windows.
Excuse the English full of errors.

From Vladislav.Rames at asseco.cz  Fri Feb 29 14:50:48 2008
From: Vladislav.Rames at asseco.cz (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Rame=B9_Vladislav?=)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:50:48 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help to use
Message-ID: <3A00E171CBC2CC4B8FEDAA85D127CBF1F4358F@cbuw00.pvt.cz>

Hello,

I'm afraid that mailman withouth UNIX/LINUX is quite problem:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.006.htp

I found some information here:

http://www.theadminzone.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-3488.html

or it can run under "cygwin"...

But if you not a LINUX/UNIX admin, isn't for you easier to use
free mailing list? For example here?

http://www.bravenet.com/webtools/elist/

Good luck.

I'm apologize for my english.

Vladislav Rames

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Priscila Gomes Pereira [mailto:p.priscilap at ig.com.br] 
> Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 1:47 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help to use
> 
> I'm coordinator of an event and would like to use the 
> Mailman. How can I do it? I don't have a web server and my 
> computer isn't Linux, is Windows.
> Excuse the English full of errors.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/vladislav
> .rames%40asseco.cz
> 
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq
> 01.027.htp
> 
> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 29 17:04:41 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 08:04:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help to use
In-Reply-To: <3A00E171CBC2CC4B8FEDAA85D127CBF1F4358F@cbuw00.pvt.cz>
References: <3A00E171CBC2CC4B8FEDAA85D127CBF1F4358F@cbuw00.pvt.cz>
Message-ID: <47C82D19.2060905@msapiro.net>

Ramea Vladislav wrote:
> 
> But if you not a LINUX/UNIX admin, isn't for you easier to use
> free mailing list? For example here?
> 
> http://www.bravenet.com/webtools/elist/

Or set up a list with a hosting service that offers Mailman hosting. See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 29 19:21:34 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:21:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding old (majordomo) postings to a Mailman
	archive
In-Reply-To: <20080229101150.GA8487@mituru.zhaw.ch>
Message-ID: <PC17602008022910213401252bf02eff@msapiro>

Visvanath Ratnaweera wrote:
>
>Before changing to Mailman our list ran on majordomo. I still 
>have those postings, in my IMAP mailbox, as a seperate directory.
>
>My question is, how can I add those postings to the running list?


You first need to convert (concatenate) the messages into a Unix mbox
format file. Then you can check the mbox with bin/cleanarch and add
its contents to your archive with bin/arch.


>Chronological overlap is minimal. Only for the final month there 
>are postings on both sides. Even if I have to delete the ones from 
>the old archive, that's not a problem.


You don't need to delete anything. If the same post was sent to both
lists with the same message-id:, it will only appear once in the
pipermail archive.

You may or may not wish to combine the majordomo mbox with the
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox Mailman file to create a
single archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file containing
all messages, and then run bin/arch --wipe to rebuild the archive
completely. This is not necessary, but if you simply add the old
messages at this point, it will not be possible to rebuild the archive
in the future without having message numbers reassigned, thus
invalidating any saved archive URLs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From robert at reverson.net  Fri Feb 29 19:38:15 2008
From: robert at reverson.net (Robert Everson)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 12:38:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Interface for creating lists
Message-ID: <F2ACDFF5-9928-4D47-9025-25D3D1801061@reverson.net>

I would like a web interface for users to create lists, without giving  
them access to the master mailman password.

Is there anything that would work for this?  I know I've seen it  
before, but it may have been a custom web application.

Thanks,
Robert Everson

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 29 19:42:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:42:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web Interface for creating lists
In-Reply-To: <F2ACDFF5-9928-4D47-9025-25D3D1801061@reverson.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020080229104208023455777cf2@msapiro>

Robert Everson wrote:

>I would like a web interface for users to create lists, without giving  
>them access to the master mailman password.
>
>Is there anything that would work for this?  I know I've seen it  
>before, but it may have been a custom web application.


See 'bin/mmsitepass --help'

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rsvancara at wsu.edu  Fri Feb 29 22:16:09 2008
From: rsvancara at wsu.edu (Svancara, Randall)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:16:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems starting mailman
Message-ID: <1204319769.4348.25.camel@local-gw.mainlab>

To all:

I have configured mailman on Solaris 10 working with Postfix.  I am
currently receiving the following error message while trying to start
mailman:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/local/software/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 547, in ?
    main()
  File "/local/software/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 389, in main
    lock = acquire_lock(force)
  File "/local/software/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 213, in
acquire_lock
    lock = acquire_lock_1(force)
  File "/local/software/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 205, in
acquire_lock_1
    hostname, pid, tempfile = get_lock_data()
  File "/local/software/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 173, in
get_lock_data
    pid = int(parts[-1])
ValueError: null byte in argument for int()

I know this has something to do with creating or accessing lock files,
however, I do not understand why.  As the mailman user, I can
create/access files in the data directory.  I think the permissions are
ok?

Anyone have any suggestions?

-- 
Randall Svancara
Systems Administrator
509-335-7093


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb 29 22:57:27 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:57:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems starting mailman
In-Reply-To: <1204319769.4348.25.camel@local-gw.mainlab>
Message-ID: <PC176020080229135727090678d054e5@msapiro>

Svancara, Randall wrote:
>
>I have configured mailman on Solaris 10 working with Postfix.  I am
>currently receiving the following error message while trying to start
>mailman:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/local/software/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 547, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/local/software/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 389, in main
>    lock = acquire_lock(force)
>  File "/local/software/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 213, in
>acquire_lock
>    lock = acquire_lock_1(force)
>  File "/local/software/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 205, in
>acquire_lock_1
>    hostname, pid, tempfile = get_lock_data()
>  File "/local/software/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 173, in
>get_lock_data
>    pid = int(parts[-1])
>ValueError: null byte in argument for int()


It appears you have corrupt data in Mailman's locks/master-qrunner file.

Assuming there are no mailman processes running at all, you can just
'rm locks/*' and that should avoid the problem.

Note that a typical mailmanctl lock is a pair of files named

master-qrunner

and

master-qrunner.<hostname>.<pid>

each with contents

/path/to/locks/master-qrunner.<hostname>.<pid>[user at host locks]

In your case, it appears that the lock files exist, but a numeric <pid>
can't be parsed from the contents.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan