From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Jan  1 04:22:14 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 21:22:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] not really an umbrella?
In-Reply-To: <A28996BB367AA74E89600FC38E9BBDB701D7FF38@athens.CISI.ctc.edu>
References: <A28996BB367AA74E89600FC38E9BBDB701D7FF38@athens.CISI.ctc.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240802c39f61cc3991@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/31/07, Gruver, Sandi wrote:

>  How can I set up a new list that sends to multiple existing lists - but
>  only sends one message to each person - even if the person is a member
>  of multiple lists?
>
>  a.     LSOFT calls this a "superlist"
>
>  b.    Can "Mailman" do this?

Not directly, no.  When all you have is the name of the list, you 
don't know who any of the subscribers are.  Once you've handed the 
message off to the list (or sublist) itself, it knows who it's own 
subscribers are, but doesn't know who any of the other subscribers 
are for any of the other lists.

With some command-line tools to dump the complete set of all 
subscribers from the selected sublists, then do a "sort -u" on those 
addresses and then re-import those into another list, you could 
achieve the same results.  But this is not automatic, and would 
depend on you regularly running some sort of a cron job.

Search the archives for more information.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Jan  1 04:23:41 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 21:23:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Lists
In-Reply-To: <20071231215215.728FE1E400D@bag.python.org>
References: <20071231215215.728FE1E400D@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p06240803c39f627360b4@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/31/07, Dennis Putnam wrote:

>  I had a disk failure and had to restore my Mandriva system from
>  backup. Everything seems to work except Mailman. Well, mailman works
>  but it does not recognize any of my old lists. How do I get Mailman to
>  see the lists again? TIA.

Assuming you had your entire /usr/local/mailman/* hierarchy backed 
up, it should be a simple matter of restoring that hierarchy and then 
stopping and restarting Mailman.

Of course, there's also going to be integration bits with your MTA, 
your webserver, etc... that you are also going to need to restore or 
re-do, but that's not part of Mailman per se.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Jan  1 04:28:14 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 21:28:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HowTo Notes - Mailman and Sendmail Integration
In-Reply-To: <009CC17B-5C2B-43AF-AED6-B9FAEE592CD4@lemlink.com.au>
References: <009CC17B-5C2B-43AF-AED6-B9FAEE592CD4@lemlink.com.au>
Message-ID: <p06240804c39f62ef7da4@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/31/07, Tony Lembke wrote:

>  To be read in conjunction with the mailman installation instructions at
>  <http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/index.htm>

That URL doesn't seem to exist anymore.  Try 
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/index.html> instead.

Other than that, on first glance this looks like good stuff.  I'll 
add some appropriate links in the FAQ Wizard.

Thanks!

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From marrie12 at gmail.com  Tue Jan  1 06:53:44 2008
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 21:53:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mass subscribing and puting users either no mail or
	digest
Message-ID: <000e01c84c3a$ad1137a0$6501a8c0@sacomputer>

I'm just curious. I know how to mass subscribe but  is there a way to mass subscribe a group of people to receive digest mail?
Thanks

Sarah Alawami
MSN: chellist at hotmail.com
skype: marrie1
Website;
www.marrie.org
To check out my podcast go to
http://feeds.feedburner.com/funfilled
For information on the list where you can discuss the podcast check out
http://tffp.marrie.org/mailman/listinfo/tffpdiscussionlist_tffp.marrie.org
 If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Jan  1 07:32:01 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 00:32:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mass subscribing and puting users either no
 mail or digest
In-Reply-To: <000e01c84c3a$ad1137a0$6501a8c0@sacomputer>
References: <000e01c84c3a$ad1137a0$6501a8c0@sacomputer>
Message-ID: <p06240800c39f8e2a9f94@[192.168.1.101]>

On 12/31/07, Sarah wrote:

>  I'm just curious. I know how to mass subscribe but  is there a way to
>  mass subscribe a group of people to receive digest mail?

Not directly, no.  Searching the FAQ Wizard for "withlist" will give 
you some hints, although I don't think the exact solution will be 
found there.  If you also search the archives of the list, you should 
get the other pieces of the puzzle.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From david at midrange.com  Wed Jan  2 03:45:14 2008
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 20:45:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "raising a string exception is deprecated"?
Message-ID: <477AFABA.2010802@midrange.com>

I just upgraded to Fedora 8, which includes Python 2.5.1, and started
noticing this error cropping up:

/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py:512: DeprecationWarning: raising a
string exception is deprecated
  raise quickexit

Is this something I should be concerned with?

Particularly the "raise quickexit" has be a bit worried ... is the
process that is being executed completing?

The above message was encountered when the checkdbs cronjob was running.

david


-- 
"The universe doesn't care what you believe. The wonderful thing about
science is that it doesn't ask for your faith, it just asks for your
eyes" --- http://xkcd.com/c154.html

From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in  Wed Jan  2 07:13:26 2008
From: vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in (Vinita Aggarwal)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:43:26 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] refresh my cross post list with updated members in
	sub lists after every 10 minutes
Message-ID: <006e01c84d06$97e1a870$3603010a@undp.org.in>

Hi 

 

I had a cron which used to refresh my cross post list with updated members
in sub lists after every 10 minutes.

 

It seems that cron is not working.

 

Please advise how to check that and if someone has deleted that cron then
how to make that.

 

I am a new person in this team and seems that someone who had access to my
machine has troubled it.

 

Regards,

Vinita Aggarwal


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Jan  2 08:53:21 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 01:53:21 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] refresh my cross post list with updated members
 in sub lists after every 10 minutes
In-Reply-To: <006e01c84d06$97e1a870$3603010a@undp.org.in>
References: <006e01c84d06$97e1a870$3603010a@undp.org.in>
Message-ID: <p06240804c3a0f32a4c48@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/2/08, Vinita Aggarwal wrote:

>  Please advise how to check that and if someone has deleted that cron then
>  how to make that.

That depends on your OS.  I suggest you identify what OS and version 
you're using, and then make use of their support mechanisms to answer 
any OS-specific questions you may have.

>  I am a new person in this team and seems that someone who had access to my
>  machine has troubled it.

That's possible, so you should first ask the other people on your 
team if anyone has messed with your cron jobs.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mj at mjw.se  Wed Jan  2 08:36:17 2008
From: mj at mjw.se (mattias)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 08:36:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix mysql
Message-ID: <000001c84d12$2963b710$0500a8c0@liomk23cfxd68z>

I run mailman and postfix
I run postfix with mysql
How to run mailman with it?


From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in  Wed Jan  2 09:26:54 2008
From: vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in (Vinita Aggarwal)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:56:54 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] refresh my cross post list with updated members
	in sub lists after every 10 minutes
In-Reply-To: <p06240804c3a0f32a4c48@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <009b01c84d19$3ceb8bd0$3603010a@undp.org.in>

will do as suggested.

I have checked, no one has info and no cron exists on my machine. I have
checked at OS level also

Please advice, is there any way that I can make these cross posts updated
automatically.


Regards,
Vinita Aggarwal

-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at shub-internet.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 1:23 PM
To: Vinita Aggarwal; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] refresh my cross post list with updated members
in sub lists after every 10 minutes
Importance: High

On 1/2/08, Vinita Aggarwal wrote:

>  Please advise how to check that and if someone has deleted that cron then
>  how to make that.

That depends on your OS.  I suggest you identify what OS and version 
you're using, and then make use of their support mechanisms to answer 
any OS-specific questions you may have.

>  I am a new person in this team and seems that someone who had access to
my
>  machine has troubled it.

That's possible, so you should first ask the other people on your 
team if anyone has messed with your cron jobs.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>



From gmillerd at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 09:50:57 2008
From: gmillerd at gmail.com (Gabriel Millerd)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 02:50:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] refresh my cross post list with updated members
	in sub lists after every 10 minutes
In-Reply-To: <009b01c84d19$3ceb8bd0$3603010a@undp.org.in>
References: <p06240804c3a0f32a4c48@192.168.1.101>
	<009b01c84d19$3ceb8bd0$3603010a@undp.org.in>
Message-ID: <8f551a650801020050k56e8001cr80b4f88d50a727e9@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 2, 2008 2:26 AM, Vinita Aggarwal <vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in> wrote:
> will do as suggested.
>
> I have checked, no one has info and no cron exists on my machine. I have
> checked at OS level also
>
> Please advice, is there any way that I can make these cross posts updated
> automatically.
>

I have seen some barebone solaris machines without crond that syslog
remotely, but those were basically desktops. Some admins remote all
syslog and all webserver logs. Hard sell to not have any logging for
your mail server though, ouch. I would guess that you have it
installed and its just not in your path or what not.

Depends on your mta, then you could setup something like this (a quick
script for a list user)

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dhhpvzq5_9dd9vj7dx

-- 
Gabriel Millerd

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Jan  2 09:47:37 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 02:47:37 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] refresh my cross post list with updated members
 in sub lists after every 10 minutes
In-Reply-To: <009b01c84d19$3ceb8bd0$3603010a@undp.org.in>
References: <009b01c84d19$3ceb8bd0$3603010a@undp.org.in>
Message-ID: <p06240800c3a0ffe04711@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/2/08, Vinita Aggarwal wrote:

>  I have checked, no one has info and no cron exists on my machine. I have
>  checked at OS level also

Without cron or some function like that, you're hosed.  None of the 
automated regular Mailman tasks will be performed, and that's going 
to be a real problem.

>  Please advice, is there any way that I can make these cross posts updated
>  automatically.

There is nothing inside of Mailman that can help you in this regard. 
You need OS-level features, like cron.  Without that, you're hosed.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From Warchol at harthosp.org  Wed Jan  2 21:16:05 2008
From: Warchol at harthosp.org (Dave Warchol)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 15:16:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating and Upgrading
Message-ID: <477BAAB5.E7DA.0082.0@harthosp.org>

I need to migrate a very old Red Hat (7.3) mailman 2.0.13 (postfix MTA 1.1.7) installation to a SuSE SLES 10 box running mailman 2.1.7, postfix 2.2.9.  I have the new box working in "test mode", temporary name/IP.  My goal is to keep the SLES installation "turn key" using the standard packages that come with the distro.  The question is what is the best/easiest method to migrate the lists from the old to the new.
 
One method I have considered would be "brute force" (a little labor intensive, a little heavier on the downtime, but doable):
- dumping the metadata from the old lists (configuration, members, etc.)
- bring the old server down
- bring the new server up with the same name/IP
- manually create the new lists
- import the members for each list
The only unknown is how to move the archives.
 
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks very much,
Dave

From marrie12 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 02:43:03 2008
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 17:43:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Thanks to all!
Message-ID: <00d301c84ce0$e4356930$6501a8c0@sacomputer>

Hello. I want to thank everyone who has helped me the new list is working flawlessly, so far. I'm not the one  hosting it but you guys  have helped me  through with some of the options on the interface. I'm glad this is up and running, finally!

Sarah Alawami
MSN: chellist at hotmail.com
skype: marrie1
Website;
www.marrie.org
To check out my podcast go to
http://feeds.feedburner.com/funfilled
For information on the list where you can discuss the podcast check out
http://tffp.marrie.org/mailman/listinfo/tffpdiscussionlist_tffp.marrie.org
> Man is the only animal that can remain on friendly terms with the victims he intends to eat until he eats them.
 Samuel Butler (1835-1902)

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan  2 21:43:00 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:43:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Excerpt
In-Reply-To: <p06240803c39bbfd213c4@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801021243000468b854b034@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>On 12/28/07, Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
>
>>  At the very least, something that tells me how many lines are in the email
>>  would be great.  On the summary page it says the number of bytes.  But that
>>  doesn't help that much because it depends on the density of the lines (and
>>  it's hard to remember what bytes mean in terms of post length).  Plus that
>>  information is not on the detail page!  I have to go back and forth to see
>>  it.
>
>In terms of what would be easy to do, I think the simplest would be 
>to increase the number of message body lines that you can see. 
>Towards this end, in the file Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py you find the 
>definition "EXCERPT_HEIGHT = 10".  If you (or your ISP) sets this to 
>a higher number (like 100), then stops and restarts Mailman, then in 
>all future instances you should see 100 lines of message body in your 
>"excerpt".
>
>Anything more than that would take source code modifications, I'm afraid.
>
>
>Unfortunately, this value does not appear to be something that is 
>defined in Mailman/Defaults.py or which could be over-ridden in 
>Mailman/mm_cfg.py.  Moreover, this is going to affect all lists on 
>the server.


Actually, EXCERPT_HEIGHT is not the controlling parameter.
EXCERPT_HEIGHT controls only the height of the text box, not the
number of lines shown (by scrolling).

The controlling parameter is ADMINDB_PAGE_TEXT_LIMIT which is a
Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py setting. It is in bytes and defaults to 4096,
but it can be set to a negative value to display the entire message.
E.g.

ADMINDB_PAGE_TEXT_LIMIT = -1

in mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan  2 22:14:56 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:14:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] not really an umbrella?
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c39f61cc3991@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801021314560109efee6f05@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>On 12/31/07, Gruver, Sandi wrote:
>
>>  How can I set up a new list that sends to multiple existing lists - but
>>  only sends one message to each person - even if the person is a member
>>  of multiple lists?
>>
>>  a.     LSOFT calls this a "superlist"
>>
>>  b.    Can "Mailman" do this?
>
>Not directly, no.  When all you have is the name of the list, you 
>don't know who any of the subscribers are.  Once you've handed the 
>message off to the list (or sublist) itself, it knows who it's own 
>subscribers are, but doesn't know who any of the other subscribers 
>are for any of the other lists.
>
>With some command-line tools to dump the complete set of all 
>subscribers from the selected sublists, then do a "sort -u" on those 
>addresses and then re-import those into another list, you could 
>achieve the same results.  But this is not automatic, and would 
>depend on you regularly running some sort of a cron job.


Mailman 2.1.10 has a new 'sibling list' feature that enables setting up
a list with no members and some siblings, the members of which will
receive copies of a post to the first list without duplication. This
is only one example of the use of sibling lists.

Sibling lists are a much more powerful concept than umbrella lists. The
only drawback is the sibling list features don't work for digest
members or digests, but for individual message recipients, you can do
much more than with umbrella lists and avoid duplicate messages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan  2 22:20:47 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:20:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] check_perms question
In-Reply-To: <001501c84a66$310c2be0$13d8a8c0@wa9als>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801021320470343c283e5a6@msapiro>

John Fleming wrote:

>Running 2.1.9 on Debian etch (stable), lists working fine except qrunner 
>silently dies and noone notices until someone realizes they haven't seen any 
>mail lately.  Currently worked around with cron job restarting Mailman. 
>Googling around, some have suggested this might be related to 
>permissions...?


What's in Mailman's error and qrunner logs when the runner dies?


>Whether my perms are related to the above problem or not, I apparently do 
>have some permissions problems as shown by running check_perms.  There were 
>initially 70-some problems, most if not all of which were related to group 
>being root instead of list.  I ran check_perms -f (as root) and many, but 
>not all, were fixed.  Now there are 17 that still show having the same 
>problem - group root not list - and I can't seem to fix it.  Even using 
>WinSCP and trying to change the group ownership with that instead of 
>check_perms -f does not give lasting results.  IOW, I can't seem to change 
>the permissions!


What are the 17 problem files/directories and what are their ownership
and permissions?


>I'm not a Linux expert, obvious from the above...  Any suggestions?  Would 
>CHMOD from a server terminal be any different?


Probably not. It does essentially what check_perms does.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan  2 22:36:26 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:36:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mass subscribing and puting users either nomail
	or digest
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c39f8e2a9f94@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801021336260156f5706f16@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>On 12/31/07, Sarah wrote:
>
>>  I'm just curious. I know how to mass subscribe but  is there a way to
>>  mass subscribe a group of people to receive digest mail?
>
>Not directly, no.  Searching the FAQ Wizard for "withlist" will give 
>you some hints, although I don't think the exact solution will be 
>found there.  If you also search the archives of the list, you should 
>get the other pieces of the puzzle.


It's a bit cumbersome, but if you set digest_is_default to Digest
before doing the mass subscribe, the mass subscribed members will be
set to digest. You can also control plain/MIME digest with
mime_is_default_digest in the same way.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan  2 22:52:48 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:52:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "raising a string exception is deprecated"?
In-Reply-To: <477AFABA.2010802@midrange.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080102135248073433a6316e@msapiro>

David Gibbs wrote:

>I just upgraded to Fedora 8, which includes Python 2.5.1, and started
>noticing this error cropping up:
>
>/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py:512: DeprecationWarning: raising a
>string exception is deprecated
>  raise quickexit
>
>Is this something I should be concerned with?


This is a known issue with Python 2.5.x and pre 2.1.10 Mailman. See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-September/058469.html>.

And no, it is not something you need to be concerned with.


>Particularly the "raise quickexit" has be a bit worried ... is the
>process that is being executed completing?


Yes. This is a coding trick to implement a multi-level 'break'.
Actually, that particular exception was changed to a class exception
in Mailman 2.1.9, but there are other string exceptions.

In Mailman 2.1.10, the warning is supressed so your logs (and cron
jobs) won't be cluttered with the warning, but other than the log
messages and cron emails, there is no problem that results.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan  2 23:01:28 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 14:01:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mass subscribing and puting users either
	nomailor digest
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200801021336260156f5706f16@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801021401280296efee6fa4@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote

>Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>>Searching the FAQ Wizard for "withlist" will give 
>>you some hints, although I don't think the exact solution will be 
>>found there.  If you also search the archives of the list, you should 
>>get the other pieces of the puzzle.
>
>
>It's a bit cumbersome, but if you set digest_is_default to Digest
>before doing the mass subscribe, the mass subscribed members will be
>set to digest. You can also control plain/MIME digest with
>mime_is_default_digest in the same way.


Setting nomail requires a withlist script as Brad suggested. See
<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/set_nomail.py> (mirrored at
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/set_nomail.py> and
<http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/set_nomail.py>) for an
example.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan  2 23:22:09 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 14:22:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating and Upgrading
In-Reply-To: <477BAAB5.E7DA.0082.0@harthosp.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801021422090171f5706f14@msapiro>

Dave Warchol wrote:
> 
>One method I have considered would be "brute force" (a little labor intensive, a little heavier on the downtime, but doable):
>- dumping the metadata from the old lists (configuration, members, etc.)
>- bring the old server down
>- bring the new server up with the same name/IP
>- manually create the new lists
>- import the members for each list
>The only unknown is how to move the archives.
> 
>Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


Too hard.

Do not manully create the old lists on the new server. This is
important.

Copy/backup the lists/<listname>/config.db files from the old machine
and copy/restore them to the new server. There must not be an existing
lists/<listname>/config.pck on the new server at this step. If there
is because you created the list on the new server, remove the
config.pck leaving only the config.db.

Archives can be moved by either moving the entire archives/private/
tree or by moving just the
archives/private/<listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox file and running
'bin/arch --wipe <listname>' for each list. If you do the latter, it
is a good idea to first check the .mbox files with bin/cleanarch.

Mailman will automatically update the config.db info (list config,
membership, options, etc.) and save a current format config.pck as
each list is accessed. You can force this for all lists by just
running bin/list_lists. Once the lists are converted and there are
config.pck and config.pck.last files, remove the old config.db or you
run the risk at some future time of falling back to the config.db if
the config.pck* files become corrupted.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Thu Jan  3 00:12:49 2008
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 18:12:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Lists
Message-ID: <20080102231623.B808D1E4005@bag.python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 06:03 PM 1/1/2008, you wrote:
 >On 1/1/08, Dennis Putnam wrote:
 >
 >You're missing the Python pickles which define which list(s) exist
 >and
 >what its/their configuration(s) is/are.  Those should presumably be
 >somewhere under /var/*/mailman/*, and you'd need to restore them as
 >well.  You'd need to stop Mailman, do the restore, then restart
 >Mailman.

Thanks for the reply but the only pickles I know of are made from
cucumbers and vinegar. :-) What file name or type should I be looking
for?


 >If you've already done that, then I'm not sure that I can give you
 >any
 >more help -- in that case, you may have to wait for an answer from
 >Mark Sapiro or someone else who knows the code better than I do.

I thought I restored everything but since I don't know what to look
for I can't really tell.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32)

iD8DBQFHfBpu/fiWYqZ2tVQRAhO+AJ0fbSKKHMebFxhnc1qTYg9cGLLsGACg0SAl
u55BQPPqLPWCq35JtZ02YRQ=
=kmZA
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From mj at mjw.se  Thu Jan  3 00:00:31 2008
From: mj at mjw.se (mattias)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 00:00:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix mysql mailman
Message-ID: <000001c84d93$469face0$0500a8c0@liomk23cfxd68z>

How to use mailman if i run postfix with mysql?


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan  3 00:42:53 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 15:42:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Lists
In-Reply-To: <20080102231623.B808D1E4005@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020080102154253035933a62ffc@msapiro>

Dennis Putnam wrote:
>
>Thanks for the reply but the only pickles I know of are made from
>cucumbers and vinegar. :-) What file name or type should I be looking
>for?


lists/<listname>/config.pck

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan  3 00:45:48 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 15:45:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix mysql mailman
In-Reply-To: <000001c84d93$469face0$0500a8c0@liomk23cfxd68z>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801021545480406efee7026@msapiro>

mattias wrote:

>How to use mailman if i run postfix with mysql?


<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/index.html>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mj at mjw.se  Thu Jan  3 00:50:42 2008
From: mj at mjw.se (mattias)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 00:50:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix mysql mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200801021545480406efee7026@msapiro>
Message-ID: <000001c84d9a$48f02860$0500a8c0@liomk23cfxd68z>

I don't find anything about mysql and postfix in the manual so i skipp
mailman
bye

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Fr?n: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Skickat: den 3 januari 2008 00:46
Till: mattias; mailman-users at python.org
?mne: Re: [Mailman-Users] Postfix mysql mailman


mattias wrote:

>How to use mailman if i run postfix with mysql?


<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/index.html>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From dmashal at intertrust.com  Thu Jan  3 00:43:36 2008
From: dmashal at intertrust.com (Dan Mashal)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 15:43:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fix_url script changes both web_page_url and
	host_name values
Message-ID: <D5987FFC5C2504499274E608BA47C51B048F6B24@exch-1.corp.intertrust.com>

Is there any way to change only one at a time (i.e. only the
web_page_url) value while using the withlist/fix_url script?

 

For example I have the list using xxx.com but the list is hosted on
mailman.yyy.com. 

 

How would I have a url host of mailman.yyy.com with the list using a
hostname of xxx.com?

 

Thanks,

Dan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan  3 01:11:40 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:11:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix mysql mailman
In-Reply-To: <000001c84d9a$48f02860$0500a8c0@liomk23cfxd68z>
Message-ID: <PC176020080102161140048433a6306c@msapiro>

mattias wrote:

>I don't find anything about mysql and postfix in the manual so i skipp
>mailman


The installation manual discusses using Postfix as an MTA with Mailman
and integrating Postfix with Mailman for automated alias generation.
The manual describes using hash tables in Postfix for Mailman, and
this will work even if you use mysql tables in Postfix for other
purposes.

If you want to use mysql database tables in Postfix for Mailman
aliases, you can, but this would be extra and unnecessary work.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan  3 01:24:49 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:24:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fix_url script changes both web_page_url
	andhost_name values
In-Reply-To: <D5987FFC5C2504499274E608BA47C51B048F6B24@exch-1.corp.intertrust.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801021624490734f570716f@msapiro>

Dan Mashal wrote:

>Is there any way to change only one at a time (i.e. only the
>web_page_url) value while using the withlist/fix_url script?


No, it is designed to do both.


>For example I have the list using xxx.com but the list is hosted on
>mailman.yyy.com. 
>
> 
>
>How would I have a url host of mailman.yyy.com with the list using a
>hostname of xxx.com?


Properly configure your add_virtualhost directives in mm_cfg.py. E.g.

add_virtual_host(mailman.yyy.com, xxx.com)

Then when you run

bin/withlist -l -r fix_url <listname> -u mailman.yyy.com

it will set the host in web_page_url to mailman.yyy.com and host_name
to xxx.com.

If this is not possible, you can set web_page_url with fix_url and then
manually change host_name via the admin web interface, or you can set
web_page_url directly via config_list with an input file like for
example,

web_page_url = 'http://mailman.yyy.com/mailman/'

or you could do a similar thing with interactive withlist.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in  Thu Jan  3 09:37:09 2008
From: vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in (Vinita Aggarwal)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:07:09 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there an easy way to discard all messages
	waiting to be reviewed
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200801021624490734f570716f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <009601c84de3$d81ea0e0$3603010a@undp.org.in>

Hi

I have a list where non members can post but their messages are moderated, I
ave to deal with a lot of spam. After sometime, just a small percentage of
them will be good posts. 

Is there an easy way to discard all messages waiting to be reviewed?

I don't have any option in my admin to select more than one message?


Regards,
Vinita Aggarwal



From cyndi at tikvah.com  Thu Jan  3 10:00:06 2008
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 01:00:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there an easy way to discard all
	messages	waiting to be reviewed
In-Reply-To: <009601c84de3$d81ea0e0$3603010a@undp.org.in>
	(vinita.aggarwal@un.org.in)
References: <009601c84de3$d81ea0e0$3603010a@undp.org.in>
Message-ID: <200801030900.m03906LG028906@b.mail.sonic.net>

   From: "Vinita Aggarwal" <vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in>
   Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:07:09 +0530

   I have a list where non members can post but their messages are
   moderated, I ave to deal with a lot of spam. After sometime, just a
   small percentage of them will be good posts.

I'm in the same boat.  All of my members are moderated at first (including
all new subscribers) and there are a handful that will need moderation
forever.  I've found that taking the time to click on the auto-discard for
the sender address of the spammers is making a big difference.

I also go into Privacy Options: Sender Filters to the
discard_these_nonmembers area.  You can set it up to discard posts from
certain domain names.  Unfortunately, you have to hunt for the formula
because it's not a general wildcard.  I had to spent some time in the FAQ
to get this info.

For example, add this line to discard any message from bipolartom.com (a
big source of my list mail spam): 

   ^[^@]+@(.*\.)?bipolartom\.com$

I still can not figure out how to discard certain usernames (or,
preferably, partial user names).  I get a lot of psychologyschool and
cookingschool @ various domains.

I was surprised to find that this little bit of extra work means that like
3/4 of my spam is being automatically discarded.  I was also very happy to
find out that the onslaught of spam I expected didn't come (most of the
spammers used email addresses from my previous server that didn't
transfer). 

   Is there an easy way to discard all messages waiting to be reviewed?

Yes.  The default setting is defer.  Once you've dealt with any real posts,
go ahead and click on "discard all posts marked defer" (or something to
that effect).

Cyndi


From itatabitovski at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  3 09:56:33 2008
From: itatabitovski at yahoo.com (Ilin Tatabitovski)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 00:56:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribed users to post on a mailing list
Message-ID: <590263.6779.qm@web35901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

hi,

is it possible to configure mailman to receive by
default (without sending bounce notification mail) all
mails sent to a certain mailing list by unsubscribed
users?

i am using hostmonster.com hosting and they offer
mailman. now i need to have one account that will be
used like info at ... or contact at ... that more users
should monitor.

thanks


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

From didier_trosset at agilent.com  Thu Jan  3 11:37:23 2008
From: didier_trosset at agilent.com (Didier Trosset)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 11:37:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List of Mailing Lists
Message-ID: <477CBAE3.6000401@agilent.com>

Hello,

I am having a problem in the page that shows the list of publicly available 
lists: mailman/listinfo.

It does not show the 9 lists that exists. All 9 are working correctly, and 
are marked as public.

   It shows either 8 of them, or the last 1 that I created.

It changes between showing 8 and showing 1 when I change the configuration 
in the lists. If I change something in one of the 8, the next page update of 
mailman/listinfo will show the 8. If I change something in the latest list, 
the next page update of mailman/listinfo show only this latest list. And the 
mailman/admin page behaves the same.

One big change occurs before I created the last one: I changed the 
domainname (the hostname remains the same) of the system.

I launched full searchs on the mailman lists directory, trying to guess some 
difference in the configuration, but didn't notice anything. The *.pck files 
didn't show anything related to the domainname.

What can I do now for the mailman/listinfo page to always show my 9 lists?

Thanks
Didier

-- 
Didier Trosset-Moreau
Acqiris Operations
Agilent Technologies
Geneva, Switzerland


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan  3 15:59:43 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 06:59:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribed users to post on a mailing list
In-Reply-To: <590263.6779.qm@web35901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801030659430625b326e5dc@msapiro>

Ilin Tatabitovski wrote:
>
>is it possible to configure mailman to receive by
>default (without sending bounce notification mail) all
>mails sent to a certain mailing list by unsubscribed
>users?


Privacy options...->Sender filters->generic_nonmember_action = Accept

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan  3 16:07:36 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 07:07:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List of Mailing Lists
In-Reply-To: <477CBAE3.6000401@agilent.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801030707360500576c6df8@msapiro>

Didier Trosset wrote:
>
>I am having a problem in the page that shows the list of publicly available 
>lists: mailman/listinfo.
>
>It does not show the 9 lists that exists. All 9 are working correctly, and 
>are marked as public.
>
>   It shows either 8 of them, or the last 1 that I created.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>.


>One big change occurs before I created the last one: I changed the 
>domainname (the hostname remains the same) of the system.


Your lists do not all have the same host name in their hidden
web_page_url attribute. The lists you see on the overview pages are
the ones that match the host name in the url you use to visit the
page. This is all addressed in the above referenced FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From srb at umich.edu  Thu Jan  3 16:24:57 2008
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:24:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hint: mmdsr.sh and Mac OS X Leopard
Message-ID: <114D45CF9ECC842508482866@srb.local>

Over the holiday, I took the opportunity to do a long-overdue hardware and 
OS upgrade of my home Mailman server.  I'd been running Mac OS X 10.3.9 
(!), and moved to a slightly-less-antique box running Mac OS X 10.5.1.

Mostly, everything went smoothly, but there were a few minor gotchas.  One 
was with mmdsr.sh, and I thought I might save some others the headache of 
figuring this out.  I was getting errors from the 'sort' invocation in the 
line that produces the "Hourly Summary of Posts":

$SED -e 's/^[A-Z][a-z][a-z] *[0-9]* //' -e 's/:.*$//' $TMPLOG | $UNIQ -c | 
$SORT -n +1 | $AWK '{ printf( "%8d  %02d:00-%02d:59\n", $1, $2, $2 ) }' >> 
$TMP

It turns out that according to:

<http://developer.apple.com/releasenotes/Darwin/RN-Unix03Conformance/index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40004772-DontLinkElementID_5>

'sort' no longer supports the form 'sort +POS1 -POS2', instead needint the 
form 'sort -k POS1,POS2'.  Of course, In that form POS1 and POS2 are 
1-based rather than 0-based.  So the 'sort' part of mmdsr.sh line above 
becomes, instead,

$SORT -n -k 2

Hope this saves someone some head scratching...

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan  3 16:38:31 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 07:38:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there an easy way to discard
	allmessages	waiting to be reviewed
In-Reply-To: <200801030900.m03906LG028906@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020080103073831010906a90cec@msapiro>

Cyndi Norwitz wrote:

>   From: "Vinita Aggarwal" <vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in>
>   Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:07:09 +0530
>
>   I have a list where non members can post but their messages are
>   moderated, I ave to deal with a lot of spam. After sometime, just a
>   small percentage of them will be good posts.
>
>I'm in the same boat.  All of my members are moderated at first (including
>all new subscribers) and there are a handful that will need moderation
>forever.  I've found that taking the time to click on the auto-discard for
>the sender address of the spammers is making a big difference.
>
>I also go into Privacy Options: Sender Filters to the
>discard_these_nonmembers area.  You can set it up to discard posts from
>certain domain names.  Unfortunately, you have to hunt for the formula
>because it's not a general wildcard.  I had to spent some time in the FAQ
>to get this info.


See <http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html> for the syntax of
Python regular expressions.


>For example, add this line to discard any message from bipolartom.com (a
>big source of my list mail spam): 
>
>   ^[^@]+@(.*\.)?bipolartom\.com$
>
>I still can not figure out how to discard certain usernames (or,
>preferably, partial user names).  I get a lot of psychologyschool and
>cookingschool @ various domains.


^psychologyschool@

^cookingschool@

^[^@]*school@

The latter will match any local part that ends in 'school'.


>I was surprised to find that this little bit of extra work means that like
>3/4 of my spam is being automatically discarded.  I was also very happy to
>find out that the onslaught of spam I expected didn't come (most of the
>spammers used email addresses from my previous server that didn't
>transfer). 


Unfortunately, it is only a matter of time until they find the new
addresses. Also, I have found that the addresses and domains that are
the alleged source of spam (From:) will change over time, so
maintaining those regexps will be an ongoing process.

I have recently set up a new server with the same domain names as the
old server. The old server used an old version of SpamAssassin to
filter mail. I set up the new server with greylisting (Postgrey) and
MailScanner (using ClamAV and SpamAssassin/DCC/Razor/Pyzor). I was
amazed. I went from several dozen spam messages per day hitting my
lists and being held to about one a week.


>   Is there an easy way to discard all messages waiting to be reviewed?
>
>Yes.  The default setting is defer.  Once you've dealt with any real posts,
>go ahead and click on "discard all posts marked defer" (or something to
>that effect).


Actually, it is a checkbox on the admindb overview page. Check the box
and click the submit button.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gilmore.126 at osu.edu  Thu Jan  3 18:23:34 2008
From: gilmore.126 at osu.edu (Melinda Gilmore)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 12:23:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron jobs
Message-ID: <003301c84e2d$5e8ef0a0$c7f29280@ad.service.osu.edu>

I keep getting this message from some cron jobs run.  And I have looked at
the permissions for the list it is referring to, but cannot seem to fix the
problem. Can anyone point me in the right direction

Your "cron" job on lists
/usr/local/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests

produced the following output:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 87, in main
    mlist.Save()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 557, in Save
    self.__save(dict)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 512, in __save
    fp = open(fname_tmp, 'w')
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/usr/local/mailman/lists/sis_directors/config.pck.tmp.lists.12634'

Melinda Gilmore
Systems Engineer
The Ohio State University
Enterprise Messaging/OIT
614-292-4953


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Jan  3 19:00:44 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:00:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron jobs
In-Reply-To: <003301c84e2d$5e8ef0a0$c7f29280@ad.service.osu.edu>
References: <003301c84e2d$5e8ef0a0$c7f29280@ad.service.osu.edu>
Message-ID: <200801031745.m03HiaQn012377@unreal.eroded.org>

Melinda Gilmore wrote:
>I keep getting this message from some cron jobs run.  And I have looked at
>the permissions for the list it is referring to, but cannot seem to fix the
>problem. Can anyone point me in the right direction
>
>Your "cron" job on lists
>/usr/local/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests
>
>produced the following output:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 87, in main
>     mlist.Save()
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 557, in Save
>     self.__save(dict)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 512, in __save
>     fp = open(fname_tmp, 'w')
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/usr/local/mailman/lists/sis_directors/config.pck.tmp.lists.12634'
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

The user that mailman runs as (default = mailman) needs to have write 
permission to the directory shown in the last line of the trace back. 
Have you tried running bin/check_perms as root with the -f option? 
You may need to run it a few times to fix everything.

These are the permissions I get on my /usr/local/mailman/lists directory:

drwxrwsr-x  9 mailman mailman 4096 Aug  9 09:22 lists


And for a sample list directory:

drwxrwsr-x 3 mailman mailman 4096 Jan  3 09:00 cuisine


If you are running a default installation of mailman, your lists 
directories should have the same permissions.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From tonyar at indigenthealthcaresolutions.com  Thu Jan  3 18:33:35 2008
From: tonyar at indigenthealthcaresolutions.com (Tonya Robison)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 11:33:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Un-subscribe notification
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c39ad7d2b34f@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <001601c84961$a2e45ef0$314fe0dc@undp.org.in>
	<p06240801c39ad7d2b34f@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <001d01c84e2e$c4c9c9c0$2564010a@FRONT>

Hey, 
I received an email from mailman-bounces at mydomain.com notifying me that a
member has been unsubscribed. This person has not requested to be removed
nor was notified to be removed. This happened about 3 weeks ago but with
about 10 members in one day. How do I keep my members from being randomly
removed? Thanks for your help!
Tonya


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan  3 20:42:18 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 11:42:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hint: mmdsr.sh and Mac OS X Leopard
In-Reply-To: <114D45CF9ECC842508482866@srb.local>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801031142180656bc793422@msapiro>

Steve Burling wrote:

>Over the holiday, I took the opportunity to do a long-overdue hardware and 
>OS upgrade of my home Mailman server.  I'd been running Mac OS X 10.3.9 
>(!), and moved to a slightly-less-antique box running Mac OS X 10.5.1.
>
>Mostly, everything went smoothly, but there were a few minor gotchas.  One 
>was with mmdsr.sh, and I thought I might save some others the headache of 
>figuring this out.  I was getting errors from the 'sort' invocation in the 
>line that produces the "Hourly Summary of Posts":
>
>$SED -e 's/^[A-Z][a-z][a-z] *[0-9]* //' -e 's/:.*$//' $TMPLOG | $UNIQ -c | 
>$SORT -n +1 | $AWK '{ printf( "%8d  %02d:00-%02d:59\n", $1, $2, $2 ) }' >> 
>$TMP
>
>It turns out that according to:
>
><http://developer.apple.com/releasenotes/Darwin/RN-Unix03Conformance/index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40004772-DontLinkElementID_5>
>
>'sort' no longer supports the form 'sort +POS1 -POS2', instead needint the 
>form 'sort -k POS1,POS2'.  Of course, In that form POS1 and POS2 are 
>1-based rather than 0-based.  So the 'sort' part of mmdsr.sh line above 
>becomes, instead,
>
>$SORT -n -k 2
>
>Hope this saves someone some head scratching...


Thanks for the report.

I observed the same problem when I moved my lists from an FC2 box to a
CentOS 5 box, but neglected to report it.

I have now added mmdsr version 0.0.17 to
<https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=300103&aid=1123383&group_id=103>
which fixes this and also includes a change to process rotated logs.
This version will be distributed with Mailman 2.1.10.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan  3 21:15:44 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 12:15:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Un-subscribe notification
In-Reply-To: <001d01c84e2e$c4c9c9c0$2564010a@FRONT>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801031215440718576c6eda@msapiro>

Tonya Robison wrote:

>I received an email from mailman-bounces at mydomain.com notifying me that a
>member has been unsubscribed. This person has not requested to be removed
>nor was notified to be removed. This happened about 3 weeks ago but with
>about 10 members in one day. How do I keep my members from being randomly
>removed? Thanks for your help!


I suspect these members were removed by automated bounce processing.
See Mailman's bounce log and the admin Bounce processing page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jan  4 00:26:34 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 17:26:34 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hint: mmdsr.sh and Mac OS X Leopard
In-Reply-To: <114D45CF9ECC842508482866@srb.local>
References: <114D45CF9ECC842508482866@srb.local>
Message-ID: <C655DB81-4974-4D00-AF5C-67FA44344889@shub-internet.org>

There are older versions of sort that don't accept the Gnu-specific  
syntax, while of course there are other (gnu) versions that don't  
support the older syntax. There's not much I can do to fix that -- the  
person installing the code needs to make changes as appropriate for  
their platform.

That's part of why I pull all the definitions for the binaries out  
into the section at the top, so that you can provide alternate paths  
to the appropriate programs.


That said, I will see if I can make some minor changes to the code so  
that this kind of thing is more obvious and easier to take the  
alternative version.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-Internet.org>

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 3, 2008, at 9:24 AM, Steve Burling <srb at umich.edu> wrote:

> Over the holiday, I took the opportunity to do a long-overdue  
> hardware and
> OS upgrade of my home Mailman server.  I'd been running Mac OS X  
> 10.3.9
> (!), and moved to a slightly-less-antique box running Mac OS X 10.5.1.
>
> Mostly, everything went smoothly, but there were a few minor  
> gotchas.  One
> was with mmdsr.sh, and I thought I might save some others the  
> headache of
> figuring this out.  I was getting errors from the 'sort' invocation  
> in the
> line that produces the "Hourly Summary of Posts":
>
> $SED -e 's/^[A-Z][a-z][a-z] *[0-9]* //' -e 's/:.*$//' $TMPLOG |  
> $UNIQ -c |
> $SORT -n +1 | $AWK '{ printf( "%8d  %02d:00-%02d:59\n", $1, $2,  
> $2 ) }' >>
> $TMP
>
> It turns out that according to:
>
> <http://developer.apple.com/releasenotes/Darwin/RN-Unix03Conformance/index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40004772-DontLinkElementID_5 
> >
>
> 'sort' no longer supports the form 'sort +POS1 -POS2', instead  
> needint the
> form 'sort -k POS1,POS2'.  Of course, In that form POS1 and POS2 are
> 1-based rather than 0-based.  So the 'sort' part of mmdsr.sh line  
> above
> becomes, instead,
>
> $SORT -n -k 2
>
> Hope this saves someone some head scratching...
>
> -- 
> Steve Burling                                     
> <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
> University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734  
> 615.3779
> 330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734  
> 647.8700
> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brad%40shub-internet.org
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jan  4 00:36:51 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 17:36:51 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hint: mmdsr.sh and Mac OS X Leopard
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200801031142180656bc793422@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200801031142180656bc793422@msapiro>
Message-ID: <AE254FF6-C0FF-4D6A-B09E-E902D72D593F@shub-internet.org>

That will break on some older systems. Since there is a mutual  
incompatibility problem here, we need to give people an easy way to  
select between the two options, depending on their OS.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-Internet.org>

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 3, 2008, at 1:42 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Steve Burling wrote:
>
>> Over the holiday, I took the opportunity to do a long-overdue  
>> hardware and
>> OS upgrade of my home Mailman server.  I'd been running Mac OS X  
>> 10.3.9
>> (!), and moved to a slightly-less-antique box running Mac OS X  
>> 10.5.1.
>>
>> Mostly, everything went smoothly, but there were a few minor  
>> gotchas.  One
>> was with mmdsr.sh, and I thought I might save some others the  
>> headache of
>> figuring this out.  I was getting errors from the 'sort' invocation  
>> in the
>> line that produces the "Hourly Summary of Posts":
>>
>> $SED -e 's/^[A-Z][a-z][a-z] *[0-9]* //' -e 's/:.*$//' $TMPLOG |  
>> $UNIQ -c |
>> $SORT -n +1 | $AWK '{ printf( "%8d  %02d:00-%02d:59\n", $1, $2,  
>> $2 ) }' >>
>> $TMP
>>
>> It turns out that according to:
>>
>> <http://developer.apple.com/releasenotes/Darwin/RN-Unix03Conformance/index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40004772-DontLinkElementID_5 
>> >
>>
>> 'sort' no longer supports the form 'sort +POS1 -POS2', instead  
>> needint the
>> form 'sort -k POS1,POS2'.  Of course, In that form POS1 and POS2 are
>> 1-based rather than 0-based.  So the 'sort' part of mmdsr.sh line  
>> above
>> becomes, instead,
>>
>> $SORT -n -k 2
>>
>> Hope this saves someone some head scratching...
>
>
> Thanks for the report.
>
> I observed the same problem when I moved my lists from an FC2 box to a
> CentOS 5 box, but neglected to report it.
>
> I have now added mmdsr version 0.0.17 to
> <https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=300103&aid=1123383&group_id=103 
> >
> which fixes this and also includes a change to process rotated logs.
> This version will be distributed with Mailman 2.1.10.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brad%40shub-internet.org
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jan  4 00:40:35 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 17:40:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Un-subscribe notification
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200801031215440718576c6eda@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200801031215440718576c6eda@msapiro>
Message-ID: <B08C624C-0D1B-4FF4-8F92-0900546C118D@shub-internet.org>

Probably as a result of monthly passwords being sent out at the first  
of the month.

This is a typical issue for Mailman-hosted mailing lists and users who  
either change e-mail addresses often, or who frequently have  
overflowing mailboxes, or set up auto-responders that are not  
intelligent in how they generate their responses, etc....

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-Internet.org>

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 3, 2008, at 2:15 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Tonya Robison wrote:
>
>> I received an email from mailman-bounces at mydomain.com notifying me  
>> that a
>> member has been unsubscribed. This person has not requested to be  
>> removed
>> nor was notified to be removed. This happened about 3 weeks ago but  
>> with
>> about 10 members in one day. How do I keep my members from being  
>> randomly
>> removed? Thanks for your help!
>
>
> I suspect these members were removed by automated bounce processing.
> See Mailman's bounce log and the admin Bounce processing page.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brad%40shub-internet.org
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From marrie12 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 02:12:59 2008
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 17:12:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Un-subscribe notification
References: <PC1760200801031215440718576c6eda@msapiro>
Message-ID: <01b901c84e6f$1c769910$6501a8c0@sacomputer>

I never saw a log for bounces in the admin interface. I looked under bounce processing and never saw it. If I get  in to this 
situation  this usser is in where is hte log loacated so I may find it. I don't run the ist from my  own machine. it is run by a 
web service provider.

SA&G
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net>
To: "Tonya Robison" <tonyar at indigenthealthcaresolutions.com>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Un-subscribe notification


Tonya Robison wrote:

>I received an email from mailman-bounces at mydomain.com notifying me that a
>member has been unsubscribed. This person has not requested to be removed
>nor was notified to be removed. This happened about 3 weeks ago but with
>about 10 members in one day. How do I keep my members from being randomly
>removed? Thanks for your help!


I suspect these members were removed by automated bounce processing.
See Mailman's bounce log and the admin Bounce processing page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/marrie12%40gmail.com

Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp 


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jan  4 02:51:52 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 17:51:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hint: mmdsr.sh and Mac OS X Leopard
In-Reply-To: <AE254FF6-C0FF-4D6A-B09E-E902D72D593F@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020080103175152015606ee81b0@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>That will break on some older systems. Since there is a mutual  
>incompatibility problem here, we need to give people an easy way to  
>select between the two options, depending on their OS.
>
>On Jan 3, 2008, at 1:42 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
>> Steve Burling wrote:
>>
>>> 'sort' no longer supports the form 'sort +POS1 -POS2', instead  
>>> needint the
>>> form 'sort -k POS1,POS2'.  Of course, In that form POS1 and POS2 are
>>> 1-based rather than 0-based.  So the 'sort' part of mmdsr.sh line  
>>> above
>>> becomes, instead,
>>>
>>> $SORT -n -k 2
>>
>> I have now added mmdsr version 0.0.17 to
>> <https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=300103&aid=1123383&group_id=103 
>> >
>> which fixes this and also includes a change to process rotated logs.
>> This version will be distributed with Mailman 2.1.10.


I will change this to make the relevant sort

  $SORT -n $SORT_FIELD

with an appropriate definition of SORT_FIELD in the front with the
other definitions.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jan  4 03:19:51 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 18:19:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Un-subscribe notification
In-Reply-To: <01b901c84e6f$1c769910$6501a8c0@sacomputer>
Message-ID: <PC176020080103181951081234f4cedf@msapiro>

Sarah wrote:

>I never saw a log for bounces in the admin interface. I looked under bounce processing and never saw it.


Because Mailman's logs are not available in the web admin interface.
They are global logs and are thus only available to people who can
access the underlying file system on the host machine.


>If I get  in to this 
>situation  this usser is in where is hte log loacated so I may find it. I don't run the ist from my  own machine. it is run by a 
>web service provider.


You don't really need access to the bounce log. That is only to find
out after the fact what happened. If you turn on the
bounce_notify_owner_on_disable notification, you will get a notice
when the member's delivery is first disabled due to bouncing, which
should be all you need to determine if the member's address is in fact
not good before the member is removed as long as
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings is > 0.
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jan  4 03:24:03 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 20:24:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Un-subscribe notification
In-Reply-To: <01b901c84e6f$1c769910$6501a8c0@sacomputer>
References: <PC1760200801031215440718576c6eda@msapiro>
	<01b901c84e6f$1c769910$6501a8c0@sacomputer>
Message-ID: <p06240800c3a348d661d1@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/3/08, Sarah wrote:

>  I never saw a log for bounces in the admin interface. I looked under
>  bounce processing and never saw it. If I get  in to this situation
>  this usser is in where is hte log loacated so I may find it. I don't
>  run the ist from my  own machine. it is run by a web service provider.

The log is on the server.  None of the Mailman logs are available via 
the web.  You need to get your service provider to look at the logs 
on your behalf.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jan  4 03:25:33 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 20:25:33 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hint: mmdsr.sh and Mac OS X Leopard
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080103175152015606ee81b0@msapiro>
References: <PC176020080103175152015606ee81b0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3a349557fab@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/3/08, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  I will change this to make the relevant sort
>
>   $SORT -n $SORT_FIELD
>
>  with an appropriate definition of SORT_FIELD in the front with the
>  other definitions.

That should work.  I'll also make that change on my official version 
of the code on the server for python.org.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From gretchen at ladyweave.com  Fri Jan  4 12:38:54 2008
From: gretchen at ladyweave.com (Gretchen at Ladyweave.com | 269-369-1114)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 06:38:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there an easy way to discard all
	messageswaiting to be reviewed
In-Reply-To: <009601c84de3$d81ea0e0$3603010a@undp.org.in>
Message-ID: <011c01c84ec6$62eb7b70$64010a0a@shadefc0737047>

You can also set the automatic discard to delete held messages after a
certain number of days. 

General Options --- scroll way down to the bottom --- "Discard held messages
older than this number of days. Use 0 for no automatic discarding."

I set most of my lists to 4 days, which is the longest I would ever go
without checking e-mail. That means when I get the moderator requests by
e-mail, I glance at the notices to make sure the messages are spam, then go
on with my work instead of having to log in to the list and moderate the
message. After the 4 days, Mailman lets you know "1 old request(s)
automatically expired." 

Works like a charm.

Gretchen Ohmann
Ladyweave Web Design

-----Original Message-----
From: Vinita Aggarwal [mailto:vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in] 
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 3:37 AM
To: 'Mark Sapiro'; 'Dan Mashal'; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is there an easy way to discard all
messageswaiting to be reviewed

Hi

I have a list where non members can post but their messages are moderated, I
ave to deal with a lot of spam. After sometime, just a small percentage of
them will be good posts. 

Is there an easy way to discard all messages waiting to be reviewed?

I don't have any option in my admin to select more than one message?


Regards,
Vinita Aggarwal





From Warchol at harthosp.org  Fri Jan  4 14:07:34 2008
From: Warchol at harthosp.org (Dave Warchol)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 08:07:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating and Upgrading
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200801021422090171f5706f14@msapiro>
References: <477BAAB5.E7DA.0082.0@harthosp.org>
	<PC1760200801021422090171f5706f14@msapiro>
Message-ID: <477DE946.E7DA.0082.0@harthosp.org>

Mark:
         First, thanks very much, your approach much easier and faster than mine.  I setup a testlist on the existing production server (call it server1) and was able to migrate the list and its archvies to a temporary box (call it server2) with a different hostname.  However, when I access the admin pages for the migrated list on on server2, each of the links is to server1 (general options, etc.).  For testing purposes, is there a way to change all of the references to the correct hostname on server2?  
Thanks,
Dave
>>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 1/2/2008 5:22 PM >>>
Dave Warchol wrote:
> 
>One method I have considered would be "brute force" (a little labor intensive, a little heavier on the downtime, but doable):
>- dumping the metadata from the old lists (configuration, members, etc.)
>- bring the old server down
>- bring the new server up with the same name/IP
>- manually create the new lists
>- import the members for each list
>The only unknown is how to move the archives.
> 
>Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


Too hard.

Do not manully create the old lists on the new server. This is
important.

Copy/backup the lists/<listname>/config.db files from the old machine
and copy/restore them to the new server. There must not be an existing
lists/<listname>/config.pck on the new server at this step. If there
is because you created the list on the new server, remove the
config.pck leaving only the config.db.

Archives can be moved by either moving the entire archives/private/
tree or by moving just the
archives/private/<listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox file and running
'bin/arch --wipe <listname>' for each list. If you do the latter, it
is a good idea to first check the .mbox files with bin/cleanarch.

Mailman will automatically update the config.db info (list config,
membership, options, etc.) and save a current format config.pck as
each list is accessed. You can force this for all lists by just
running bin/list_lists. Once the lists are converted and there are
config.pck and config.pck.last files, remove the old config.db or you
run the risk at some future time of falling back to the config.db if
the config.pck* files become corrupted.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users 
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py 
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail ( http://www.mail/ )-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/warchol%40harthosp.org 

Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From flynnibus at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  4 15:32:45 2008
From: flynnibus at yahoo.com (steve)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 06:32:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about suggested site-wide list from
	install documentation
Message-ID: <472808.7827.qm@web33115.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello all, trying to setup mailman on a linux 2.6.9 distrobution were mailman was installed, but not configured previously.

I'm following the documentation and have a question about the 'site-wide' list described in this step of the documentation

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node40.html

It states it should be named 'mailman' by default and that you setup the aliases for the mailing list after creation in /etc/aliases

My question is... since the aliases setup for the list is actually the same as the username that is setup to execute mailman.. any mail sent back to the user (such as from cron) get sent to the list.  This results in a bounce email because I get an error message from the cron job.. which comes from root at fqdn gets sent to mailman - which due to the aliases goes to the list - which gets bounced because root is not a subscriber of the list.  Of course I can add root as a subscribed member - but this doesn't seem like the intended behavior.

What exactly is this mailman distribution group used for?  Who should really be a member of the group?

Thanks
-Steve

       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

From flynnibus at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  4 16:04:41 2008
From: flynnibus at yahoo.com (steve)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 07:04:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question on cron.in and the init.d scripts in rpm
	file
Message-ID: <757351.61873.qm@web33109.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello all, setting up mailman on linux 2.6.9 where mailman was installed I believe by a rpm file.

The question is about the cron job.  The documentation says to install the contents of the supplied file into the cron job of the user mailman


    % cd $prefix/cron
    % crontab -u mailman crontab.in
Upon doing so, I got error messages from the cron job when it ran

/bin/sh: mailman: command not found

The cron entry failing looks like this
0,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55 * * * * mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news

The syntax didn't look right to me because, what was 'mailman' doing there at the start of the command?  the shell setup by cron can not find the mailman executable because its not installed in /usr/bin or /usr/sbin .  My install is into /usr/lib/mailman and /var/lib/mailman

Mark Sapiro offers an explanation in this archived message from the list
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg43115.html

Saying its due to a package setup and just remove 'mailman'.  I can do that, but reading the actual crontab.in file supplied suggests that the cronjob is automatically setup and torn down by the init.d script

# This file is copied to /etc/cron.d/mailman from
# /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in when the mailman service is started via its
# init.d script and the file /etc/cron.d/mailman is removed when the
# service is stopped.  Therefore any edits made directly to
# /etc/cron.d/mailman will be lost anytime the mailman service
# restarts.
#
# To make changes edit the master copy /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in and then
# restart the service to pick up the changes (/sbin/service mailman restart).

Ok - makes sense.. so I should edit the file in /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in and the script will update the actual cron job when the service is started..

So, I'll edit out mailman in /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in - but is this something lacking in the documentation?  I don't understand why the crontab.in file has that extra mailman in each of the lines of the crontab.  Does it serve a purpose for other installation types?

       
---------------------------------
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From Warchol at harthosp.org  Fri Jan  4 16:16:25 2008
From: Warchol at harthosp.org (Dave Warchol)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 10:16:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating and Upgrading
In-Reply-To: <477DE946.E7DA.0082.0@harthosp.org>
References: <477BAAB5.E7DA.0082.0@harthosp.org>
	<PC1760200801021422090171f5706f14@msapiro>
	<477DE946.E7DA.0082.0@harthosp.org>
Message-ID: <477E0778.E7DA.0082.0@harthosp.org>

All:
      I apologize for "noise", I found the answer in the FAQ.
 
% bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname [options]
 
Thanks again,
-Dave

>>> "Dave Warchol" <Warchol at harthosp.org> 1/4/2008 8:07 AM >>>
Mark:
         First, thanks very much, your approach much easier and faster than mine.  I setup a testlist on the existing production server (call it server1) and was able to migrate the list and its archvies to a temporary box (call it server2) with a different hostname.  However, when I access the admin pages for the migrated list on on server2, each of the links is to server1 (general options, etc.).  For testing purposes, is there a way to change all of the references to the correct hostname on server2?  
Thanks,
Dave
>>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 1/2/2008 5:22 PM >>>
Dave Warchol wrote:
> 
>One method I have considered would be "brute force" (a little labor intensive, a little heavier on the downtime, but doable):
>- dumping the metadata from the old lists (configuration, members, etc.)
>- bring the old server down
>- bring the new server up with the same name/IP
>- manually create the new lists
>- import the members for each list
>The only unknown is how to move the archives.
> 
>Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


Too hard.

Do not manully create the old lists on the new server. This is
important.

Copy/backup the lists/<listname>/config.db files from the old machine
and copy/restore them to the new server. There must not be an existing
lists/<listname>/config.pck on the new server at this step. If there
is because you created the list on the new server, remove the
config.pck leaving only the config.db.

Archives can be moved by either moving the entire archives/private/
tree or by moving just the
archives/private/<listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox file and running
'bin/arch --wipe <listname>' for each list. If you do the latter, it
is a good idea to first check the .mbox files with bin/cleanarch.

Mailman will automatically update the config.db info (list config,
membership, options, etc.) and save a current format config.pck as
each list is accessed. You can force this for all lists by just
running bin/list_lists. Once the lists are converted and there are
config.pck and config.pck.last files, remove the old config.db or you
run the risk at some future time of falling back to the config.db if
the config.pck* files become corrupted.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From flynnibus at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  4 16:18:32 2008
From: flynnibus at yahoo.com (steve)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 07:18:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question on cron.in and the init.d scripts in
	rpm file
In-Reply-To: <757351.61873.qm@web33109.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <137574.85754.qm@web33103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Ok, I found that if placed in /etc/cron.d the file is intended as a crontab which has the userfield as part of the command.. so the default crontab.in file is correct for that usage - but doesn't this mean the documentation is INCORRECT to tell you to directly install that file into the mailman's crontab using   crontab -u mailman filename   ?

steve <flynnibus at yahoo.com> wrote: Hello all, setting up mailman on linux 2.6.9 where mailman was installed I believe by a rpm file.

The question is about the cron job.  The documentation says to install the contents of the supplied file into the cron job of the user mailman


    % cd $prefix/cron
    % crontab -u mailman crontab.in
Upon doing so, I got error messages from the cron job when it ran

/bin/sh: mailman: command not found

The cron entry failing looks like this
0,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55 * * * * mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news

The syntax didn't look right to me because, what was 'mailman' doing there at the start of the command?  the shell setup by cron can not find the mailman executable because its not installed in /usr/bin or /usr/sbin .  My install is into /usr/lib/mailman and /var/lib/mailman

Mark Sapiro offers an explanation in this archived message from the list
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg43115.html

Saying its due to a package setup and just remove 'mailman'.  I can do that, but reading the actual crontab.in file supplied suggests that the cronjob is automatically setup and torn down by the init.d script

# This file is copied to /etc/cron.d/mailman from
# /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in when the mailman service is started via its
# init.d script and the file /etc/cron.d/mailman is removed when the
# service is stopped.  Therefore any edits made directly to
# /etc/cron.d/mailman will be lost anytime the mailman service
# restarts.
#
# To make changes edit the master copy /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in and then
# restart the service to pick up the changes (/sbin/service mailman restart).

Ok - makes sense.. so I should edit the file in /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in and the script will update the actual cron job when the service is started..

So, I'll edit out mailman in /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in - but is this something lacking in the documentation?  I don't understand why the crontab.in file has that extra mailman in each of the lines of the crontab.  Does it serve a purpose for other installation types?

       
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From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Jan  4 21:21:51 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:21:51 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question on cron.in and the init.d scripts
	in	rpm file
In-Reply-To: <137574.85754.qm@web33103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <757351.61873.qm@web33109.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<137574.85754.qm@web33103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <87sl1d1gv4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

steve writes:

 > Ok, I found that if placed in /etc/cron.d the file is intended as a
 > crontab which has the userfield as part of the command.. so the
 > default crontab.in file is correct for that usage - but doesn't this
 > mean the documentation is INCORRECT to tell you to directly install
 > that file into the mailman's crontab using   crontab -u mailman
 > filename   ?

No.  Mailman documentation refers to the distributed crontab which is
in the usual user crontab format (no set-user field).  It would work
correctly as the mailman user's crontab.

 > steve <flynnibus at yahoo.com> wrote: Hello all, setting up mailman on
 > linux 2.6.9 where mailman was installed I believe by a rpm file.

Almost certainly (based on past reports of this kind), something is
messed up in your Linux installation.  You could try to track it down
yourself -- a common cause is installing an RPM intended for a
different distribution, which isn't the distro's fault.  It could be
that the distro is broken, and may have even issued a bugfix upgrade.

Very likely this difference from the Mailman distribution is
documented somewhere in the distro's docs.  On Debian, try
/usr/share/doc/mailman-$FULL_DEBIAN_VERSION.

From vicki at thepenguin.org  Fri Jan  4 23:44:31 2008
From: vicki at thepenguin.org (Vicki Stanfield)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 17:44:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron jobs posted by non-member in mailman
Message-ID: <477EB6CF.8000705@thepenguin.org>

I am receiving all output from mailman cron jobs as requiring moderation
("Post by non-member to a members-only list"). I would guess that this is
a file ownership issue, but I can't seem to resolve it. It happens with
all my lists. Can someone help me find the solution?

CaptainVic


From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Sat Jan  5 01:01:41 2008
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 19:01:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Lists
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080102154253035933a62ffc@msapiro>
References: <20080102231623.B808D1E4005@bag.python.org>
	<PC176020080102154253035933a62ffc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080105000717.A75B61E4008@bag.python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 06:42 PM 1/2/2008, you wrote:
Dennis Putnam wrote:
 >
 >Thanks for the reply but the only pickles I know of are made from
 >cucumbers and vinegar. :-) What file name or type should I be looking
 >for?


lists/<listname>/config.pck

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

Thanks for the reply. I do indeed see .pck files. They are in
/var/lib/mailman/lists/<listname>. It has always bothered me that
Mandriva, for whatever reason, did not follow the mailman standard
directories. My question now is how do I know mailman is looking in
the correct place. I cannot find where the paths are defined in the
cfg.py file. Do they exist somewhere else? This all worked until I had
to do a restore. Obviously something is out of place but I just don't
know enough about mailman to even start trying to figure out what.
Just in case I forgot to mention the code is in
/usr/local/lib/mailman.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32)

iD8DBQFHfsjM/fiWYqZ2tVQRArYcAJ92KQ5hnW/ZPwS6M0eZV2sjw+kMYwCfdd0t
w3RnzI9GMAXahXf10Pq5Eog=
=ca7t
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From rlopez_33012 at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  5 01:18:48 2008
From: rlopez_33012 at yahoo.com (Ramon Lopez)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 19:18:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple repeated messages
Message-ID: <000001c84f30$8b3db240$a1b916c0$@com>

Al notifications that Mailman-bounces at domain.com
<mailto:Mailman-bounces at domain.com>  sends to advise the
administrator of new subscriptions and other actions that need
moderation are received in batches of 30+. All have the same
date, time and ID. How can this be fixed if I'm using cpanel. 

 

Thank you


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Sat Jan  5 01:47:07 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 16:47:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron jobs posted by non-member in mailman
In-Reply-To: <477EB6CF.8000705@thepenguin.org>
References: <477EB6CF.8000705@thepenguin.org>
Message-ID: <20080105004710.DJKR24689.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>

Vicki Stanfield did speak thusly:
>I am receiving all output from mailman cron jobs as requiring moderation
>("Post by non-member to a members-only list"). I would guess that this is
>a file ownership issue, but I can't seem to resolve it. It happens with
>all my lists. Can someone help me find the solution?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

It is quite possible somebody here can help you but it is also very 
likely that more information about your setup and the error will be 
required to diagnose what is going on.

But as a stab in the dark...

Did you install this yourself?

If so, how? (From source? A package of some sort?)

Did you run the bin/check_perms script as root with the -f option 
until it reports no further errors?

Did you set up the proper aliases for each list for your particular MTA?

Did you create the default site-wide mailman list as detailed in the 
install instructions?

Do you have access to the mailman logs?

If so, what does the error log say?

All of that would give folks a starting point to help you, right now 
there is simply not enough information.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From vicki at thepenguin.org  Sat Jan  5 04:27:34 2008
From: vicki at thepenguin.org (Vicki Stanfield)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 22:27:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron jobs posted by non-member in mailman
In-Reply-To: <20080105004710.DJKR24689.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>
References: <477EB6CF.8000705@thepenguin.org>
	<20080105004710.DJKR24689.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>
Message-ID: <477EF926.1010103@thepenguin.org>

Yes, I suppose I was a little slow with the details. I sent it in a 
hurry from work. Sorry.

Ok. My system is a Fedora 7 system. The version of mailman is 
mailman-2.1.9-5.1. I installed the RPM. I have run bin/check_perms -f as 
root. It reported errors the first time and none thereafter. I did set 
the aliases appropriately. I can send messages to the lists by cat'ing 
the message into the alias. I did create the site-wide mailman list. I 
believe I followed the directions, although I have a suspicion that this 
list is where the problem lies.

I have full access on this system, and yes, I have searched the mailman 
logs for a hint. The only info I see if in the /var/log/mailman/vette 
file and is really no more helpful than the message in the subject line:

Dec 30 12:00:02 2007 (3267) Mailman post from root at thepenguin.org held, 
message-id=<20071230170001.918BD29B00B5 at mail>: Post by non-member to a 
members-only list

The aliases for the lists are:
## mailman mailing list
mailman:              "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:         "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:    "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"

## homegroup mailing list
homegroup:              "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post homegroup"
homegroup-admin:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin homegroup"
homegroup-bounces:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces homegroup"
homegroup-confirm:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm homegroup"
homegroup-join:         "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join homegroup"
homegroup-leave:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave homegroup"
homegroup-owner:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner homegroup"
homegroup-request:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request homegroup"
homegroup-subscribe:    "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe homegroup"
homegroup-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe 
homegroup"

thanks for any hints,
Vic



From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Jan  5 08:20:19 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 01:20:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about suggested site-wide list from
 install documentation
In-Reply-To: <472808.7827.qm@web33115.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <472808.7827.qm@web33115.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06240809c3a4e012d4e2@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/4/08, steve wrote:

>  What exactly is this mailman distribution group used for?  Who should
>  really be a member of the group?

If you search the FAQ Wizard for "site-wide", you should be led to 
FAQ 4.25 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.025.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Jan  5 08:22:55 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 01:22:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question on cron.in and the init.d scripts in
 rpm file
In-Reply-To: <757351.61873.qm@web33109.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <757351.61873.qm@web33109.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p0624080ac3a4e039ddd2@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/4/08, steve wrote:

>  The question is about the cron job.  The documentation says to install
>  the contents of the supplied file into the cron job of the user mailman
>
>
>     % cd $prefix/cron
>     % crontab -u mailman crontab.in
>  Upon doing so, I got error messages from the cron job when it ran

The installation instructions at 
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node41.html> are suitable for 
use with the source version of Mailman that you can download directly 
through our site.  If you want to install a binary package version 
from some other provider, you should follow their installation 
instructions, because they may have made changes to where things are 
put, how things are put into place, etc....

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Jan  5 08:26:06 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 01:26:06 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron jobs posted by non-member in mailman
In-Reply-To: <477EB6CF.8000705@thepenguin.org>
References: <477EB6CF.8000705@thepenguin.org>
Message-ID: <p0624080bc3a4e1111089@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/4/08, Vicki Stanfield wrote:

>  I am receiving all output from mailman cron jobs as requiring moderation
>  ("Post by non-member to a members-only list"). I would guess that this is
>  a file ownership issue, but I can't seem to resolve it. It happens with
>  all my lists. Can someone help me find the solution?

This particular message just means that a user tried to post a 
message to one of your lists, and they were not a known subscriber. 
The list in question is set up to moderate posts from 
non-subscribers, and so this message is generated.

As far as this goes, there's nothing wrong with this process.  This 
is exactly what Mailman is supposed to do under these kinds of 
circumstances.

If you want to change this configuration to operate in a different 
manner, you've got a wide variety of options available to you, which 
I hope would be adequately explained in the documentation, the FAQ 
Wizard, etc....

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Jan  5 08:27:23 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 01:27:23 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple repeated messages
In-Reply-To: <000001c84f30$8b3db240$a1b916c0$@com>
References: <000001c84f30$8b3db240$a1b916c0$@com>
Message-ID: <p0624080cc3a4e1bd38cf@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/4/08, Ramon Lopez wrote:

>  Al notifications that Mailman-bounces at domain.com
>  <mailto:Mailman-bounces at domain.com>  sends to advise the
>  administrator of new subscriptions and other actions that need
>  moderation are received in batches of 30+. All have the same
>  date, time and ID. How can this be fixed if I'm using cpanel.

There is nothing in Mailman that should act in this manner.

Talk to your provider, and see FAQ 6.11 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From justus at easa.co.ke  Sat Jan  5 12:59:59 2008
From: justus at easa.co.ke (justus at easa.co.ke)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 14:59:59 +0300 (EAT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <2872.80.240.192.124.1199534399.squirrel@196.216.69.46>

everyone

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jan  5 19:57:26 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 10:57:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron jobs posted by non-member in mailman
In-Reply-To: <477EB6CF.8000705@thepenguin.org>
References: <477EB6CF.8000705@thepenguin.org>
Message-ID: <20080105185726.GA5221@sbh16.songbird.com>

On Fri, Jan 04, 2008 at 05:44:31PM -0500, Vicki Stanfield wrote:

>I am receiving all output from mailman cron jobs as requiring moderation
>("Post by non-member to a members-only list"). I would guess that this is
>a file ownership issue, but I can't seem to resolve it. It happens with
>all my lists. Can someone help me find the solution?


Normally, mailman's cron jobs do not produce output. They only produce
output in error cases. You should resolve the errors.

That said, what is happening is the cron output is mailed to 'mailman'
which is in your (and most cases) the site list. That message to the
list (from root or whatever) is being held as a non-member post.

Since the 'mailman' list is also advertised on the listinfo and admin
overview pages as a general 'help' address, it is best to set this list
to accept non-member posts.

Alternatively, you can put a 'MAILTO=user at example.com' in mailman's
crontab to mail cron output somewhere else.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jan  5 20:32:51 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 11:32:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Lists
In-Reply-To: <20080105000717.A75B61E4008@bag.python.org>
References: <20080102231623.B808D1E4005@bag.python.org>
	<PC176020080102154253035933a62ffc@msapiro>
	<20080105000717.A75B61E4008@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <20080105193251.GA5617@sbh16.songbird.com>

On Fri, Jan 04, 2008 at 07:01:41PM -0500, Dennis Putnam wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the reply. I do indeed see .pck files. They are in
> /var/lib/mailman/lists/<listname>. It has always bothered me that
> Mandriva, for whatever reason, did not follow the mailman standard
> directories. My question now is how do I know mailman is looking in
> the correct place. I cannot find where the paths are defined in the
> cfg.py file. Do they exist somewhere else? This all worked until I had
> to do a restore. Obviously something is out of place but I just don't
> know enough about mailman to even start trying to figure out what.
> Just in case I forgot to mention the code is in
> /usr/local/lib/mailman.

Look in Defaults.py for things like PREFIX, EXEC_PREFIX and VAR_PREFIX,
and then for things defined in terms of these such as LIST_DATA_DIR,
LOG_DIR, etc.

Then look in mm_cfg.py for possible overrides.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From schlaber at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 12:25:47 2008
From: schlaber at gmail.com (Bernd)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 12:25:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Include Mailman into my website...
Message-ID: <1199618747.5904.41.camel@localhost>

Hello,

I would like to use Mailman for sending newsletter to all subscribed
users from my website. The users should not realise that the newsletter
is part of a mailing list, because they should subscribe and unsubscribe
through my website. 
I configured mailman that it doesn't send welcome messages or password
reminder and all this stuff.
A friend of mine use Mailman in the same way. But his website and
Mailman installation are hosted on the same root server. I am customer
from webfaction.com. My website and the Mailman-installation are hosted
on different servers.

My friend use command line scripts
(http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/site.html) to subscribe/unsubscribe
the users through his website to Mailman.
I am not able to use this scripts and had to use the email interface
(http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/node10.html).

But here is the problem. The email interface doesn't take care of the
senders address. If I use the email interface with the administrative
e-mail address (this e-mail address is used to log-in into the mailing
list administration) the behavior is the same as if I use it with an
normal user e-mail address.

But I would like to subscribe an user without "subscribe_policy". If the
list-manager send an subscription the user should be subscribed
immediately without confirm/approve - option.

Is it possible to make the listname-request at domain.com logic only
available for the list-manager?

What's the purpose of the list-manager e-mail address except for log-in?


Regards
  Bernd

By the way, www.webfaction.com isn't listed on 
http://wiki.list.org/display/COM/Mailman+hosting+services


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Sun Jan  6 19:15:07 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 13:15:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman won't 'start' - but is working?
In-Reply-To: <477680D6.9050701@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <4776771F.6040306@Media-Brokers.com>
	<477680D6.9050701@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <47811AAB.6080801@Media-Brokers.com>

Anyone? This is actually now a little worse - I updated the kernel (from 
2.6.17 to 2.6.23), and mailman still won't start (gives me the [ !! ] 
error when I issue the /etc/init.d/mailman start command anad at boot 
time) - but now, the qrunner obviously isn't starting either, because 
the lists weren't responding until I issued a manual (as root) 
"/usr/lib64/mailmanctl -s start", after which all pending messages are 
delivered.

I really need a little help here... could this be some kind of 
permissions or path problem? The location of the /bin dorectory was 
changed in this package update... where would I check the path of the 
'bin' directory? Although, I did try to change the init script path to 
the full /usr/lib64/mailman/bin/mailmanctl path...

check_perms shows no problems...

Init script is shown below... this is on a Gentoo box, and I've asked on 
their forums, but thought I'd ask here too...

Charles Marcus, on 12/29/2007 12:16 PM, said the following:
> Charles Marcus, on 12/29/2007 11:34 AM, said the following:
>> If I try to 'start' mailman, it won't start - I get the (!!) error. If I 
>> try to stop it, it says it isn't started.
>>
>> What am I missing?

> Hmmm... apparently the qrunner is running - if I manually issue the 
> mailmanct stop or -s start commands, it appears to work...
> 
> I did verify these are correct in the startup script (see below) - but I 
> also notice two things: it is dated from 2004, and it is issuing the 
> command as 'su - mailman', but I am issuing the commands directly as 
> root - so maybe this script didn't get updated properly?
> 
> #!/sbin/runscript
> # Copyright 1999-2004 Gentoo Foundation
> # Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License v2
> # $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/net-mail/mailman/files/mailman.rc,v 
> 1.5 2004/07/14 23:50:52 agriffis Exp $
> 
> depend() {
>          need net
>          use logger
> }
> 
> start() {
>          ebegin "Starting mailman"
>          su - mailman -c 'bin/mailmanctl -s start' >/dev/null 2>&1
>          eend $?
> }
> 
> stop() {
>          ebegin "Stopping mailman"
>          su - mailman -c 'bin/mailmanctl stop' >/dev/null 2>&1
>          eend $?
> }
> 
> svc_restart() {
>          ebegin "Restarting mailman"
>          su - mailman -c 'bin/mailmanctl restart' >/dev/null 2>&1
>          eend $?
> }
> 
> Tia for any pointers and/or whacks with a clue-stick...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From Matt_Domsch at dell.com  Sun Jan  6 20:30:27 2008
From: Matt_Domsch at dell.com (Matt Domsch)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 13:30:27 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web forms to avoid
	member-only restrictions
Message-ID: <20080106193027.GC22785@auslistsprd01.us.dell.com>

Several times this week I've received spam to my lists which are set
to allow postings only by list members.  Upon review, something
(either bot or human, but I'm betting bot as they hit many lists at
once) subscribed the spam sender email to the lists via the web form,
sent the spam, then unsubscribed themselves.

The actual spam message was declared clean by both SpamAssassin and
IronPort, so the filtering ahead of MM is quite helpful, but not perfect.

Are there plans to enhance the web subscription form with a type of
captcha, or other technique to discourage bots?

Anyone else hit by this practice much?

Thanks,
Matt
http://lists.us.dell.com list admin

-- 
Matt Domsch
Linux Technology Strategist, Dell Office of the CTO
linux.dell.com & www.dell.com/linux

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jan  6 22:02:19 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 13:02:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web forms to
	avoidmember-only restrictions
In-Reply-To: <20080106193027.GC22785@auslistsprd01.us.dell.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801061302190265d3352c3c@Notebook>

Matt Domsch wrote:

>Several times this week I've received spam to my lists which are set
>to allow postings only by list members.  Upon review, something
>(either bot or human, but I'm betting bot as they hit many lists at
>once) subscribed the spam sender email to the lists via the web form,
>sent the spam, then unsubscribed themselves.


What is subscribe_policy for these lists?


>The actual spam message was declared clean by both SpamAssassin and
>IronPort, so the filtering ahead of MM is quite helpful, but not perfect.
>
>Are there plans to enhance the web subscription form with a type of
>captcha, or other technique to discourage bots?


There is no current plan.


>Anyone else hit by this practice much?


I've never seen it on lists with subscribe_policy of either Confirm or
Approve. I don't allow open subscribe.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jan  6 22:49:15 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 13:49:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Include Mailman into my website...
In-Reply-To: <1199618747.5904.41.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC176020080106134915018713034e2a@Notebook>

Bernd wrote:
>
>My friend use command line scripts
>(http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/site.html) to subscribe/unsubscribe
>the users through his website to Mailman.
>I am not able to use this scripts and had to use the email interface
>(http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/node10.html).


You need to use a php or CGI script on your web site to post a mass
subscribe transaction to the list's admin interface. See some of the
hits from
<http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org+inurl%3Amailman+wget+subscribe>
for more information.


>But here is the problem. The email interface doesn't take care of the
>senders address. If I use the email interface with the administrative
>e-mail address (this e-mail address is used to log-in into the mailing
>list administration) the behavior is the same as if I use it with an
>normal user e-mail address.
>
>But I would like to subscribe an user without "subscribe_policy". If the
>list-manager send an subscription the user should be subscribed
>immediately without confirm/approve - option.
>
>Is it possible to make the listname-request at domain.com logic only
>available for the list-manager?
>
>What's the purpose of the list-manager e-mail address except for log-in?


The 'owner' and 'moderator' addresses are the addresses to which
Mailman sends certain notices and other mail. Otherwise, there is
nothing special about these addresses. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.060.htp>.

The email command interface is designed for list members. It is not
intended to ba a facility for administering a list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From flynnibus at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  6 22:56:43 2008
From: flynnibus at yahoo.com (steve)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 13:56:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web forms to
	avoidmember-only restrictions
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200801061302190265d3352c3c@Notebook>
Message-ID: <386205.21475.qm@web33107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


>Are there plans to enhance the web subscription form with a type of
>captcha, or other technique to discourage bots?

>Anyone else hit by this practice much?
Human assisted registration is becoming more popular - apparently there is even setups where they auto farm-out the capcha recognition to pools of people who simply enter the stuff and the system processes everything else automatically.

On forums, even with capcha, there is an element that persists.  The best solutions have been to ban the most frequent abused mail systems, and potentially block problem IP ranges (like Asia).  How much you can do that depends on your list's scope.

In short - yes there appear to be human assisted automated spam generation systems in play.  Systems with a confirm email have also been mass defeated with software, but most hacks don't bother to build their own and try to use pre-made spamming software.  Unless mailman has been targeted by these developers in the past, its unlikely someone is using pure software to automate it.

       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Mon Jan  7 00:10:28 2008
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 17:10:28 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hint: mmdsr.sh and Mac OS X Leopard
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c3a349557fab@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <PC176020080103175152015606ee81b0@msapiro>
	<p06240801c3a349557fab@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <87CBC5DA-EC46-455B-B936-27BDDE56A143@goldmark.org>

On Jan 3, 2008, at 8:25 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> On 1/3/08, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> I will change this to make the relevant sort
>>
>>  $SORT -n $SORT_FIELD
>>
>> with an appropriate definition of SORT_FIELD in the front with the
>> other definitions.
>
> That should work.  I'll also make that change on my official version
> of the code on the server for python.org.

Isn't this the kind of thing that can be dealt with in the configure  
script?  I don't know the autoconf tools, but I thought that this was  
the sort of problem it was designed to address.

And I'd like to give another warning about standard Unix tools on OS  
X.  You can very easily end up with out of date man pages.  When a  
system is upgraded (using an "upgrade install" instead of a "clean" or  
"archive" install) you will get new compressed man pages.  For  
example, /usr/share/man/man1/sort.1.gz  But if you already have /usr/ 
share/man/man1/sort.1 you will end up with both files.  man will not  
detect that the .1 file is older than the .1.gz file.  As a result

     man sort

may give you the man page for a version of sort that is no longer on  
your system.  I'd discovered this a few months ago (I'd long known  
that many man pages didn't correspond to what I was using, but I  
hadn't understood why), so when this happened with sort.1 as I read  
this discussion, I at least knew what was happening.  My old sort.1  
page was from August 2005.

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Mon Jan  7 00:21:23 2008
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 17:21:23 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web forms to
	avoidmember-only restrictions
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200801061302190265d3352c3c@Notebook>
References: <PC1760200801061302190265d3352c3c@Notebook>
Message-ID: <426EBA60-B371-430D-B0AB-0DE3F5993B1B@goldmark.org>

On Jan 6, 2008, at 3:02 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I've never seen it on lists with subscribe_policy of either Confirm or
> Approve. I don't allow open subscribe.

Years ago (2000?) I did see this happen with one or twice with lists  
with a Confirm policy.  These were majordomo lists, but still the  
email confirmation was required.  I do not know whether the spammer  
automated the confirmation process.

What I have seen more often (though still rarely) is spammers forging  
addresses of list members.  Again, that was also a long time ago and I  
don't know whether those were just coincidences (address would have  
been harvest near each other and spammers then liked to forge From  
addresses that were possibly associated with recipients) or really  
targeting the list.

On the whole, I have found these things so rare that it hasn't been a  
real problem.  However, in principle lists could easily be targeted,  
so it is worth considering captchas.

Cheers,

-j



-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From sburkard at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 00:24:35 2008
From: sburkard at gmail.com (Stefan Burkard)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 00:24:35 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Variables in welcome message are not replaced
In-Reply-To: <60f02a250712250805y72a95cb7m4ed7669981c6c44d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <60f02a250712250805y72a95cb7m4ed7669981c6c44d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60f02a250801061524m481d5f4gbce7a2e0b0025bfa@mail.gmail.com>

Hi again

I posted the following about two weeks ago. Can anybody help me with this one?

Thanks
Stefan

------------------------------------
Hi all

I set up a mailman mailinglist (everything preinstalled on a
plesk-based hosting) and have a strange effect.

 When I subscribe a user from my address by using the email-command
with the optional "address=<user-address>", the user receives the
confirmation-message without problems. BUT if the user replies to the
message (to confirm), he gets a welcome-message with the
variable-codes instead of the real values.

When the user himself does the same procedure (obviously without the
address= option, that is not needed in this case), the welcome-message
looks just fine.

I tried the same with the mailman-users-list itself and it worked, so
I think this is not a bug - at least not in the actual version. I am
using version 2.1.5.

Can anybody help me with this one?
Regards
Stefan

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Jan  7 00:42:39 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 17:42:39 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Include Mailman into my website...
In-Reply-To: <1199618747.5904.41.camel@localhost>
References: <1199618747.5904.41.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <p06240800c3a716598e9c@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/6/08, Bernd wrote:

>  But I would like to subscribe an user without "subscribe_policy". If the
>  list-manager send an subscription the user should be subscribed
>  immediately without confirm/approve - option.

Keep in mind that some of the techniques you're talking about using 
could be easily abused to create a system to generate and transmit 
spam to people.

I'm not calling you a spammer.  I'm just warning you that other 
people may not see the distinction here, and they may call you a 
spammer, because you're using tools and techniques that could be 
easily abused.


That said, you should look at FAQ 3.53 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.053.htp>.

>  By the way, www.webfaction.com isn't listed on
>  http://wiki.list.org/display/COM/Mailman+hosting+services

If you run WebFaction.com, feel free to add it to the list of sites 
providing Mailman hosting services.  Otherwise, feel free to suggest 
to them that they add themselves to the list.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Jan  7 00:45:03 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 17:45:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web forms to
 avoidmember-only restrictions
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200801061302190265d3352c3c@Notebook>
References: <PC1760200801061302190265d3352c3c@Notebook>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3a71809f3e1@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/6/08, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>>  Anyone else hit by this practice much?
>
>  I've never seen it on lists with subscribe_policy of either Confirm or
>  Approve. I don't allow open subscribe.

I've seen spammers (or bots) get subscribed to lists and try to spam, 
then unsubscribe.  However, pretty much all the lists I run these 
days do default moderation for new subscribers, so that I can 
manually catch these sorts of things before I turn off their 
"moderation" bit.

This applies to most of the mailman-* mailing lists on python.org, as 
well as others elsewhere.


I also tend to run lists where subscription has to be approved by the 
list owner.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Jan  7 00:56:29 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 17:56:29 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hint: mmdsr.sh and Mac OS X Leopard
In-Reply-To: <87CBC5DA-EC46-455B-B936-27BDDE56A143@goldmark.org>
References: <PC176020080103175152015606ee81b0@msapiro>
	<p06240801c3a349557fab@[192.168.1.101]>
	<87CBC5DA-EC46-455B-B936-27BDDE56A143@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <p06240803c3a71a1a6fd7@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/6/08, Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:

>  Isn't this the kind of thing that can be dealt with in the configure
>  script?  I don't know the autoconf tools, but I thought that this was
>  the sort of problem it was designed to address.

For mmdsr, there is no "configure" script.  I wrote mmdsr to help me 
administer the mailing lists on python.org (and other sites), and it 
was useful enough that I decided that I would make it available to 
others.  But it's a complete hack of a Bourne shell script that has 
evolved over time, and is not integrated in any way into the standard 
part of the Mailman installation process.

This is an officially unsupported tool that is provided in a totally 
separate subdirectory, and if you choose to install and use it at 
your site, then you do so in the understanding of the basic nature of 
the tool and the fact that it is officially unsupported.

>  And I'd like to give another warning about standard Unix tools on OS X.
>  You can very easily end up with out of date man pages.  When a system
>  is upgraded (using an "upgrade install" instead of a "clean" or "archive"
>  install) you will get new compressed man pages.  For example,
>  /usr/share/man/man1/sort.1.gz  But if you already have
>  /usr/share/man/man1/sort.1 you will end up with both files.  man will
>  not detect that the .1 file is older than the .1.gz file.  As a result

So far as I know, we have no man pages for Mailman, and there are no 
man pages for mmdsr.  This really isn't relevant to this discussion.

>     man sort
>
>  may give you the man page for a version of sort that is no longer on
>  your system.  I'd discovered this a few months ago (I'd long known that
>  many man pages didn't correspond to what I was using, but I hadn't
>  understood why), so when this happened with sort.1 as I read this
>  discussion, I at least knew what was happening.  My old sort.1 page was
>  from August 2005.

Then you've got a screwed up man(1) command, because it should be 
smart enough to look at date/time stamps of the source versus the 
output text files, and if the source is newer then it should 
re-generate the output text file.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Jan  7 01:17:07 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 18:17:07 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Variables in welcome message are not replaced
In-Reply-To: <60f02a250801061524m481d5f4gbce7a2e0b0025bfa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <60f02a250712250805y72a95cb7m4ed7669981c6c44d@mail.gmail.com>
	<60f02a250801061524m481d5f4gbce7a2e0b0025bfa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240805c3a71f299f5e@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/7/08, Stefan Burkard wrote:

>  I posted the following about two weeks ago. Can anybody help me 
>with this one?

Two things:

1.  You're using Plesk.  You need to talk to your provider about 
anything that might potentially be caused by Plesk or the customized 
version of Mailman that they have installed.  The kinds of problems 
you're describing seem very likely to me to be a result of something 
that Plesk or your site administrator has done, and only your 
provider would be able to fix those problems.

See also FAQ 6.15 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.015.htp>.

2.  You're using Mailman 2.1.5, and the current version of Mailman is 
2.1.9 (which is what we're running on python.org), with 2.1.10 in 
early beta and set to be released soon.  So, part of your problem 
could potentially be resolved by upgrading the version of Mailman 
you're running, but then this gets back to point #1 above.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Jan  7 02:01:58 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 10:01:58 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web forms
	to	avoidmember-only restrictions
In-Reply-To: <426EBA60-B371-430D-B0AB-0DE3F5993B1B@goldmark.org>
References: <PC1760200801061302190265d3352c3c@Notebook>
	<426EBA60-B371-430D-B0AB-0DE3F5993B1B@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <87prwetpmh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Jeffrey Goldberg writes:

 > On the whole, I have found these things so rare that it hasn't been a  
 > real problem.  However, in principle lists could easily be targeted,  
 > so it is worth considering captchas.

Captchas have been discussed, and were not considered worthwhile.

(1) There are many sites that describe algorithms for automatically
getting 50% or better recognition on many common captchas.  I've tried
a couple using the Gimp, and indeed it looks like it's pretty easy to
achieve a filter that gives OCR-able images.  Note that a 50% rate is
going to be good enough for any spammer if that gives access.

(2) Several dodges have been found to get human help for solving
captchas (sort of XSS attacks in reverse), and of course you can just
hire them.

(3) On the other hand, hard to read captchas are exactly that: hard to
read.  For humans, too.  So introducing captchas the score is Spammers
2, Humans 0.


From marrie12 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 02:05:01 2008
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 17:05:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web
	formsto	avoidmember-only restrictions
References: <PC1760200801061302190265d3352c3c@Notebook><426EBA60-B371-430D-B0AB-0DE3F5993B1B@goldmark.org>
	<87prwetpmh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <00a801c850c9$5f065c00$6401a8c0@sacomputer>

        Pluss with those of us with failing site captchas are anoying if we don't have a pair of eyes to  deal with it.

SA&G
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org>
To: "Jeffrey Goldberg" <jeffrey at goldmark.org>
Cc: "Mailman Users" <mailman-users at python.org>; "Matt Domsch" <Matt_Domsch at dell.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web formsto avoidmember-only restrictions


Jeffrey Goldberg writes:

 > On the whole, I have found these things so rare that it hasn't been a  
 > real problem.  However, in principle lists could easily be targeted,  
 > so it is worth considering captchas.

Captchas have been discussed, and were not considered worthwhile.

(1) There are many sites that describe algorithms for automatically
getting 50% or better recognition on many common captchas.  I've tried
a couple using the Gimp, and indeed it looks like it's pretty easy to
achieve a filter that gives OCR-able images.  Note that a 50% rate is
going to be good enough for any spammer if that gives access.

(2) Several dodges have been found to get human help for solving
captchas (sort of XSS attacks in reverse), and of course you can just
hire them.

(3) On the other hand, hard to read captchas are exactly that: hard to
read.  For humans, too.  So introducing captchas the score is Spammers
2, Humans 0.

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
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Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
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From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Mon Jan  7 02:21:10 2008
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 18:21:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Variables in welcome message are not replaced
In-Reply-To: <p06240805c3a71f299f5e@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <60f02a250712250805y72a95cb7m4ed7669981c6c44d@mail.gmail.com>	<60f02a250801061524m481d5f4gbce7a2e0b0025bfa@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240805c3a71f299f5e@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <47817E86.6010604@pauahtun.org>

Hi All--

Brad Knowles wrote:
> On 1/7/08, Stefan Burkard wrote:
> 
>>  I posted the following about two weeks ago. Can anybody help me 
>> with this one?
> 
> Two things:
> 
> 1.  You're using Plesk.  You need to talk to your provider about 
> anything that might potentially be caused by Plesk or the customized 
> version of Mailman that they have installed.  The kinds of problems 
> you're describing seem very likely to me to be a result of something 
> that Plesk or your site administrator has done, and only your 
> provider would be able to fix those problems.
> 

Plesk doesn't enter into this one.  I'm using Plesk to create my lists, 
and this doesn't happen to me or my subscribers.

The only thing bizarre that's happened since my forced upgrade from 
2.1.8 to 2.1.9 has been that I sometimes get disable notifications for 
one list from the bounce address at another list.

> See also FAQ 6.15 at 
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.015.htp>.
> 
> 2.  You're using Mailman 2.1.5, and the current version of Mailman is 
> 2.1.9 (which is what we're running on python.org), with 2.1.10 in 
> early beta and set to be released soon.  So, part of your problem 
> could potentially be resolved by upgrading the version of Mailman 
> you're running, but then this gets back to point #1 above.
> 


Metta,
Ivan
-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

From marrie12 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 02:56:13 2008
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 17:56:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web forms
	toavoidmember-only restrictions
References: <PC1760200801061302190265d3352c3c@Notebook>
Message-ID: <00ef01c850d0$85ccf2c0$6401a8c0@sacomputer>


Nor I. I have a double opt in for muy list. I get no spam what so ever.

SA&G
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net>
To: "Matt Domsch" <Matt_Domsch at dell.com>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web forms toavoidmember-only restrictions


Matt Domsch wrote:

>Several times this week I've received spam to my lists which are set
>to allow postings only by list members.  Upon review, something
>(either bot or human, but I'm betting bot as they hit many lists at
>once) subscribed the spam sender email to the lists via the web form,
>sent the spam, then unsubscribed themselves.


What is subscribe_policy for these lists?


>The actual spam message was declared clean by both SpamAssassin and
>IronPort, so the filtering ahead of MM is quite helpful, but not perfect.
>
>Are there plans to enhance the web subscription form with a type of
>captcha, or other technique to discourage bots?


There is no current plan.


>Anyone else hit by this practice much?


I've never seen it on lists with subscribe_policy of either Confirm or
Approve. I don't allow open subscribe.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/marrie12%40gmail.com

Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Mon Jan  7 02:55:11 2008
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 19:55:11 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hint: mmdsr.sh and Mac OS X Leopard
In-Reply-To: <p06240803c3a71a1a6fd7@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <PC176020080103175152015606ee81b0@msapiro>
	<p06240801c3a349557fab@[192.168.1.101]>
	<87CBC5DA-EC46-455B-B936-27BDDE56A143@goldmark.org>
	<p06240803c3a71a1a6fd7@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <8F39F3C3-F052-4D8B-982F-BDB135E73009@goldmark.org>

On Jan 6, 2008, at 5:56 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> On 1/6/08, Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
>
>> Isn't this the kind of thing that can be dealt with in the configure
>> script?

> For mmdsr, there is no "configure" script. [...] This is an  
> officially unsupported tool that is provided in a totally separate  
> subdirectory,

OK.  Thanks for the explanation.  Makes sense.

Cheers,

-j


-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Mon Jan  7 03:01:51 2008
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 20:01:51 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web forms to
	avoidmember-only restrictions
In-Reply-To: <87prwetpmh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC1760200801061302190265d3352c3c@Notebook>
	<426EBA60-B371-430D-B0AB-0DE3F5993B1B@goldmark.org>
	<87prwetpmh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <8707222C-A914-4E1E-B448-869C15B1C99A@goldmark.org>

On Jan 6, 2008, at 7:01 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> Jeffrey Goldberg writes:
>
>>  [...] it is worth considering captchas.
>
> Captchas have been discussed, and were not considered worthwhile.

[snip of explanation of the lack of effectiveness and annoyance of  
capchas]

Thank you.  I've always disliked the things.  Now I know that there is  
actually good reason to.

I suspect that with a Confirm subscription policy (which is the  
minimum anyone should run) there really isn't too much to worry about  
in that we can always end up requiring approval for subscriptions (or  
moderate) associated with domains that show a history of allowing  
spammers to send subscription requests.

Cheers,

-j


-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Mon Jan  7 05:00:23 2008
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 22:00:23 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web forms to
 avoidmember-only restrictions
In-Reply-To: <87prwetpmh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <C3A6FFF7.50255%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 1/6/08 7:01 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull at stephen at xemacs.org wrote:

> (3) On the other hand, hard to read captchas are exactly that: hard to
> read.  For humans, too.  So introducing captchas the score is Spammers
> 2, Humans 0.

Yes indeed. One that takes me two to three tries to match is annoying. I
even found one I couldn't get right after half a dozen tries. I gave up.
Their loss.

-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/



From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jan  7 05:20:36 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 20:20:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Variables in welcome message are not replaced
In-Reply-To: <60f02a250801061524m481d5f4gbce7a2e0b0025bfa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080106202036003178d05183@msapiro>

Stefan Burkard wrote:
>
> When I subscribe a user from my address by using the email-command
>with the optional "address=<user-address>", the user receives the
>confirmation-message without problems. BUT if the user replies to the
>message (to confirm), he gets a welcome-message with the
>variable-codes instead of the real values.
>
>When the user himself does the same procedure (obviously without the
>address= option, that is not needed in this case), the welcome-message
>looks just fine.


I have looked at the way the welcome message is generated, at least in
our 2.1.5 distribution, and I don't see any way in which the
generation of the welcome message from the template is different
depending on whether the subscribed address comes from address= or
From:. In fact, the difference between these two modes is only very
early in the subscribe process before the confirmation is even sent to
the user. Once the confirmation is received, there is no difference in
how it is processed and the welcome message sent.

If you are sure that the address= is the only thing that is different,
this can't be explained by anything in our code as far as I can see.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jan  4 16:45:17 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 07:45:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question on cron.in and the init.d scripts
	inrpm file
In-Reply-To: <137574.85754.qm@web33103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801040745170390591ff777@msapiro>

steve wrote:

>Ok, I found that if placed in /etc/cron.d the file is intended as a crontab which has the userfield as part of the command.. so the default crontab.in file is correct for that usage - but doesn't this mean the documentation is INCORRECT to tell you to directly install that file into the mailman's crontab using   crontab -u mailman filename   ?


The problem is you are following our "install Mailman from source"
documentation, but you are installing a "packaged" Mailman which does
things differently. You should be either installing from source and
following our documentation or following the packager's documentation
for installing the package. If the packager's documentation is missing
or inadequate, that's not something we have any control over.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Jan  7 07:12:18 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 00:12:18 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Variables in welcome message are not replaced
In-Reply-To: <47817E86.6010604@pauahtun.org>
References: <60f02a250712250805y72a95cb7m4ed7669981c6c44d@mail.gmail.com>
	<60f02a250801061524m481d5f4gbce7a2e0b0025bfa@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240805c3a71f299f5e@[192.168.1.101]> <47817E86.6010604@pauahtun.org>
Message-ID: <p06240802c3a772eb40e4@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/6/08, Ivan Van Laningham wrote:

>  Plesk doesn't enter into this one.  I'm using Plesk to create my lists,
>  and this doesn't happen to me or my subscribers.

Plesk doesn't enter into this issue directly, but the fact that he's 
using Plesk means that he probably can't make any of the necessary 
changes himself, or at the very least he's going to have to do a lot 
more work to properly integrate that with Plesk -- I've worked on 
sites where they upgraded Mailman while keeping Plesk, and I can tell 
you that it was one of the worst nightmares I've ever seen.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Jan  7 07:14:05 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 00:14:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web forms
 toavoidmember-only restrictions
In-Reply-To: <00ef01c850d0$85ccf2c0$6401a8c0@sacomputer>
References: <PC1760200801061302190265d3352c3c@Notebook>
	<00ef01c850d0$85ccf2c0$6401a8c0@sacomputer>
Message-ID: <p06240803c3a773645d69@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/6/08, Sarah wrote:

>  Nor I. I have a double opt in for muy list. I get no spam what so ever.

Double opt-in doesn't necessarily mean that you won't ever get spam, 
it just means that you apparently haven't gotten any spam yet.

Moreover, the fact that you have not yet gotten any spam that has 
gotten through your filters and sent out via your mailing list is not 
necessarily due to the fact that you have a double opt-in list, 
although this is probably one factor to consider.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Jan  7 07:15:28 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 00:15:28 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web forms to
 avoidmember-only restrictions
In-Reply-To: <8707222C-A914-4E1E-B448-869C15B1C99A@goldmark.org>
References: <PC1760200801061302190265d3352c3c@Notebook>
	<426EBA60-B371-430D-B0AB-0DE3F5993B1B@goldmark.org>
	<87prwetpmh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<8707222C-A914-4E1E-B448-869C15B1C99A@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <p06240804c3a773b87118@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/6/08, Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:

>  I suspect that with a Confirm subscription policy (which is the
>  minimum anyone should run) there really isn't too much to worry about
>  in that we can always end up requiring approval for subscriptions (or
>  moderate) associated with domains that show a history of allowing
>  spammers to send subscription requests.

In my experience, just confirming subscriptions is not enough.  There 
are a few spammers who will get through that test.  So far, I have 
not yet seen much in the way of spammers who get through that filter 
as well as the moderation filter for new subscribers, but it's 
probably just a matter of time.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From bga at altlinux.org  Mon Jan  7 17:06:15 2008
From: bga at altlinux.org (Grigory Batalov)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 19:06:15 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queue delays
Message-ID: <20080107190615.61fc2da5.bga@altlinux.org>

Hello!

I have regular delays in message processing. Say, my server (Linux/Postfix)
receives a letter at 17:36 and quickly delivers it to the mailman queue (?).
Then message is hold for about 25 minutes and is processed again at 18:01.

It is strange to me, why mailman keeps the message so long?
How can I investigate such situation?

Maybe, other messages in queue could be the reason?

$ ls -1 /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/in/|wc -l
0
$ ls -1 /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out/|wc -l
120
$ ls -1 /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/retry/|wc -l
121

There are 8 Incoming, 8 Outgoing, 4 Retry and 4 Bounce qrunners on the server.
Nothing interesting in /var/log/mailman/error for that period.

I cite mail logs here in hope they can help:

---
/var/log/maillog:
...
Jan  7 17:36:24 lists postfix/smtpd[9319]: 3E5FFBE21CF: client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
Jan  7 17:36:24 lists postfix/cleanup[9736]: 3E5FFBE21CF: message-id=<20080107143624.1A3761AE802A at granary.armor.altlinux.org>
Jan  7 17:36:24 lists postfix/qmgr[32764]: 3E5FFBE21CF: from=<upravdom at altlinux.org>, size=2326, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Jan  7 17:36:24 lists postfix/local[9765]: 3E5FFBE21CF: to=<sisyphus-incominger at lists.altlinux.org>, relay=local, delay=0.27, delays=0.14/0/0/0.13, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib64/mailman/mail/mailman post sisyphus-incominger)
Jan  7 17:36:24 lists postfix/qmgr[32764]: 3E5FFBE21CF: removed
...

---
/var/log/mailman/post:
...
Jan 07 18:01:41 2008 (12250) post to sisyphus-incominger from upravdom at altlinux.org, size=4003, message-id=<20080107143624.1A3761AE802A at granary.armor.altlinux.org>, success
...

---
/var/log/mailman/smtp:
...
Jan 07 18:01:41 2008 (12250) <20080107143624.1A3761AE802A at granary.armor.altlinux.org> smtp to sisyphus-incominger for 15 recips, completed in 0.057 seconds
...

---
/var/log/maillog:
...
Jan  7 18:01:41 lists postfix/smtpd[11539]: 064E7BE1B56: client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
Jan  7 18:01:41 lists postfix/cleanup[14067]: 064E7BE1B56: message-id=<20080107143624.1A3761AE802A at granary.armor.altlinux.org>
Jan  7 18:01:41 lists postfix/qmgr[32764]: 064E7BE1B56: from=<sisyphus-incominger-bounces at lists.altlinux.org>, size=4204, nrcpt=3 (queue active)
...
Jan  7 18:01:41 lists postfix/smtpd[11539]: 099D8BE1D7D: client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
Jan  7 18:01:41 lists postfix/cleanup[14067]: 099D8BE1D7D: message-id=<20080107143624.1A3761AE802A at granary.armor.altlinux.org>
Jan  7 18:01:41 lists postfix/qmgr[32764]: 099D8BE1D7D: from=<sisyphus-incominger-bounces at lists.altlinux.org>, size=4204, nrcpt=5 (queue active)
...
Jan  7 18:01:41 lists postfix/smtpd[11539]: 0D9A3BE2078: client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
Jan  7 18:01:41 lists postfix/cleanup[14067]: 0D9A3BE2078: message-id=<20080107143624.1A3761AE802A at granary.armor.altlinux.org>
Jan  7 18:01:41 lists postfix/qmgr[32764]: 0D9A3BE2078: from=<sisyphus-incominger-bounces at lists.altlinux.org>, size=4204, nrcpt=7 (queue active)
...
(skipped SMTP delivery)
...
Jan  7 18:01:41 lists postfix/qmgr[32764]: 064E7BE1B56: removed
Jan  7 18:01:44 lists postfix/qmgr[32764]: 099D8BE1D7D: removed
Jan  7 18:01:52 lists postfix/qmgr[32764]: 0D9A3BE2078: removed
...

-- 
 Grigory Batalov,
 ALT Linux Team
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From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jan  7 17:59:10 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:59:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queue delays
In-Reply-To: <20080107190615.61fc2da5.bga@altlinux.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020080107085910073422a65e68@msapiro>

Grigory Batalov wrote:
>
>I have regular delays in message processing. Say, my server (Linux/Postfix)
>receives a letter at 17:36 and quickly delivers it to the mailman queue (?).
>Then message is hold for about 25 minutes and is processed again at 18:01.
>
>It is strange to me, why mailman keeps the message so long?
>How can I investigate such situation?
>
>Maybe, other messages in queue could be the reason?
>
>$ ls -1 /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/in/|wc -l
>0
>$ ls -1 /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out/|wc -l
>120
>$ ls -1 /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/retry/|wc -l
>121


Why is the out queue backlogged with 120 messages?  Why are there 121
messages being retried. What is in Mailman's smtp-failure log?

What does Mailman's smtp log look like? Does it show evidence of
'continuous processing'?


>There are 8 Incoming, 8 Outgoing, 4 Retry and 4 Bounce qrunners on the server.


Why so many runners? Do you really need that much parallelism?

The issue appears to be a backlogged 'out' queue. In order to say more,
we need to know what's causing all the retries (smtp-failure log) and
whether there are outgoing messages taking inordinately long to
process (smtp log).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From knabe at 4j.lane.edu  Mon Jan  7 18:22:26 2008
From: knabe at 4j.lane.edu (Troy Knabe)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 09:22:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe_policy
Message-ID: <EABE26A0-CA2A-4F24-828A-3EB8394FDB31@4j.lane.edu>

I want to set a list so that users cannot self subscribe.  Is there a  
way to do that?  I only see "confirm, require approval, or confirm and  
approve".  I would like "not allowed"

Thanks
-Troy



From knabe at 4j.lane.edu  Mon Jan  7 18:40:45 2008
From: knabe at 4j.lane.edu (Troy Knabe)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 09:40:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe_policy
In-Reply-To: <4782611B.1020002@simons-rock.edu>
References: <EABE26A0-CA2A-4F24-828A-3EB8394FDB31@4j.lane.edu>
	<4782611B.1020002@simons-rock.edu>
Message-ID: <12A62D68-FDB1-425E-953D-D306B9C96D83@4j.lane.edu>

Ok so that brings up 2 questions for me.

1.  What would I put to ban everyone from being able to subscribe?

2. If I banned everyone from subscription then I wouldn't be able to  
add them manually either, or is that not a correct assumption?

Thanks

-Troy


On Jan 7, 2008, at 9:27 AM, charlie derr wrote:

> Looks like ban_list under Privacy Options will do what you desire.
>
> 	~c
>
>
>
>
> Troy Knabe wrote:
>> I want to set a list so that users cannot self subscribe.  Is there  
>> a  way to do that?  I only see "confirm, require approval, or  
>> confirm and  approve".  I would like "not allowed"
>> Thanks
>> -Troy
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cderr%40simons-rock.edu
>> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


From cderr at simons-rock.edu  Mon Jan  7 18:27:55 2008
From: cderr at simons-rock.edu (charlie derr)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:27:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe_policy
In-Reply-To: <EABE26A0-CA2A-4F24-828A-3EB8394FDB31@4j.lane.edu>
References: <EABE26A0-CA2A-4F24-828A-3EB8394FDB31@4j.lane.edu>
Message-ID: <4782611B.1020002@simons-rock.edu>

Looks like ban_list under Privacy Options will do what you desire.

	~c




Troy Knabe wrote:
> I want to set a list so that users cannot self subscribe.  Is there a  
> way to do that?  I only see "confirm, require approval, or confirm and  
> approve".  I would like "not allowed"
> 
> Thanks
> -Troy
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cderr%40simons-rock.edu
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jan  7 18:58:22 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 09:58:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe_policy
In-Reply-To: <12A62D68-FDB1-425E-953D-D306B9C96D83@4j.lane.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801070958220593440a4347@msapiro>

Troy Knabe wrote:

>Ok so that brings up 2 questions for me.
>
>1.  What would I put to ban everyone from being able to subscribe?


^.

Ie, a pattern that matches any address with at least one character.


>2. If I banned everyone from subscription then I wouldn't be able to  
>add them manually either, or is that not a correct assumption?


That is correct.

What you want to do is set subscribe_policy to Require approval and
then just not approve any subscription requests.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Mon Jan  7 20:20:11 2008
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 13:20:11 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe_policy
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'charlie derr <cderr@simons-rock.edu>'
	dated: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:27:55 -0500
Message-ID: <200801071920.m07JKBBU028393@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

Troy Knabe wrote:
>> I want to set a list so that users cannot self subscribe.  Is there a  
>> way to do that?  I only see "confirm, require approval, or confirm and  
>> approve".  I would like "not allowed"
>> 
>> Thanks
>> -Troy

And charlie derr <cderr at simons-rock.edu> replied:

> Looks like ban_list under Privacy Options will do what you desire.

The problem with this solution, I believe, is that when the list owner
attempts to subscribe someone manually, that subscription attempt will
not be allowed due to the ban_list.  I do not know what would happen
if the list owner temporarily removed the ban_list, did the manual
subscription, and then re-instituted the ban_list.

What I would do in response to the original question is set the list
to "confirm and approve".  If I were to see a subscription attempt,
then I would either approve the subscription or tell the attemptee
that subscriptions are not allowed.  For a list with this configuration
I most likely would not have the list advertised.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Jan  7 20:23:47 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 13:23:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe_policy
In-Reply-To: <EABE26A0-CA2A-4F24-828A-3EB8394FDB31@4j.lane.edu>
References: <EABE26A0-CA2A-4F24-828A-3EB8394FDB31@4j.lane.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240805c3a82ca8c9a6@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/7/08, Troy Knabe wrote:

>  I want to set a list so that users cannot self subscribe.  Is there a
>  way to do that?  I only see "confirm, require approval, or confirm and
>  approve".  I would like "not allowed"

What's wrong with requiring approval, and then just not approving any requests?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From jimc at nmcourts.com  Mon Jan  7 20:54:08 2008
From: jimc at nmcourts.com (Jim Coberly)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:54:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe_policy
In-Reply-To: <p06240805c3a82ca8c9a6@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <EABE26A0-CA2A-4F24-828A-3EB8394FDB31@4j.lane.edu>
	<p06240805c3a82ca8c9a6@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <47828360.4080100@nmcourts.com>



Brad Knowles wrote:
> On 1/7/08, Troy Knabe wrote:
>
>   
>>  I want to set a list so that users cannot self subscribe.  Is there a
>>  way to do that?  I only see "confirm, require approval, or confirm and
>>  approve".  I would like "not allowed"
>>     
>
> What's wrong with requiring approval, and then just not approving any requests?
>
>   
Or one could set "Advertise this list when people ask what lists are on 
this machine?" to 'No' in addition to requiring approval.

-- 
This email is the opinion of the author and is not an official communication of the New Mexico Judicial Branch.


Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including all attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited unless specifically provided under the New Mexico Inspection of Public Records Act. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of this message. 


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Mon Jan  7 22:04:23 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:04:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman won't 'start' - but is working?
In-Reply-To: <47811AAB.6080801@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <4776771F.6040306@Media-Brokers.com>	<477680D6.9050701@Media-Brokers.com>
	<47811AAB.6080801@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <478293D7.6090408@Media-Brokers.com>

I'm trying to be patient, but NO ONE has a clue or idea where I might 
look to solve this?

I've asked here because I'm getting deafening silence on the Gentoo 
forums too...

:(

Charles Marcus, on 1/6/2008 1:15 PM, said the following:
> Anyone? This is actually now a little worse - I updated the kernel (from 
> 2.6.17 to 2.6.23), and mailman still won't start (gives me the [ !! ] 
> error when I issue the /etc/init.d/mailman start command anad at boot 
> time) - but now, the qrunner obviously isn't starting either, because 
> the lists weren't responding until I issued a manual (as root) 
> "/usr/lib64/mailmanctl -s start", after which all pending messages are 
> delivered.
> 
> I really need a little help here... could this be some kind of 
> permissions or path problem? The location of the /bin dorectory was 
> changed in this package update... where would I check the path of the 
> 'bin' directory? Although, I did try to change the init script path to 
> the full /usr/lib64/mailman/bin/mailmanctl path...
> 
> check_perms shows no problems...
> 
> Init script is shown below... this is on a Gentoo box, and I've asked on 
> their forums, but thought I'd ask here too...
> 
> Charles Marcus, on 12/29/2007 12:16 PM, said the following:
>> Charles Marcus, on 12/29/2007 11:34 AM, said the following:
>>> If I try to 'start' mailman, it won't start - I get the (!!) error. If I 
>>> try to stop it, it says it isn't started.
>>>
>>> What am I missing?
> 
>> Hmmm... apparently the qrunner is running - if I manually issue the 
>> mailmanct stop or -s start commands, it appears to work...
>>
>> I did verify these are correct in the startup script (see below) - but I 
>> also notice two things: it is dated from 2004, and it is issuing the 
>> command as 'su - mailman', but I am issuing the commands directly as 
>> root - so maybe this script didn't get updated properly?
>>
>> #!/sbin/runscript
>> # Copyright 1999-2004 Gentoo Foundation
>> # Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License v2
>> # $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/net-mail/mailman/files/mailman.rc,v 
>> 1.5 2004/07/14 23:50:52 agriffis Exp $
>>
>> depend() {
>>          need net
>>          use logger
>> }
>>
>> start() {
>>          ebegin "Starting mailman"
>>          su - mailman -c 'bin/mailmanctl -s start' >/dev/null 2>&1
>>          eend $?
>> }
>>
>> stop() {
>>          ebegin "Stopping mailman"
>>          su - mailman -c 'bin/mailmanctl stop' >/dev/null 2>&1
>>          eend $?
>> }
>>
>> svc_restart() {
>>          ebegin "Restarting mailman"
>>          su - mailman -c 'bin/mailmanctl restart' >/dev/null 2>&1
>>          eend $?
>> }
>>
>> Tia for any pointers and/or whacks with a clue-stick...
> 


-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Jan  7 22:53:04 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 15:53:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman won't 'start' - but is working?
In-Reply-To: <478293D7.6090408@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <4776771F.6040306@Media-Brokers.com>
	<477680D6.9050701@Media-Brokers.com>	<47811AAB.6080801@Media-Brokers.com>
	<478293D7.6090408@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <p06240805c3a84d857d95@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/7/08, Charles Marcus wrote:

>  I'm trying to be patient, but NO ONE has a clue or idea where I might
>  look to solve this?
>
>  I've asked here because I'm getting deafening silence on the Gentoo
>  forums too...

Everything I've seen on this subject leads me to believe that the 
problems you're having are more to do with discrepancies between the 
portage system you're using, the startup scripts that they provide, 
kernel updates you've applied, etc....

None of the specific error messages or startup scripts you've 
reported on are actually coming from Mailman itself -- they're coming 
from Gentoo-specific tools, and we're not going to be able to help 
you with those.

This would explain why you haven't seen any messages from anyone else 
that are in response to your posts -- all your questions seem to be 
very Gentoo-specific, and don't really have anything to do with 
Mailman itself.


Our Mailman-specific troubleshooting processes are described in the 
FAQ Wizard, and if you search for "troubleshoot", you should turn 
them up.

In particular, before we would be likely to be able to provide any 
assistance to you, we would need to know what is showing up in all 
your various Mailman and MTA logs, especially regarding the startup 
process.

Make sure to also check out the other FAQ Wizard entries that are 
referenced at the top of FAQ 4.78.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Mon Jan  7 22:56:36 2008
From: mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Meenal Pant)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 15:56:36 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Secure Email List Services using Mailman and GnuPG
Message-ID: <4782A014.7000208@ncsa.uiuc.edu>

This might be of interest to the Mailman User Community.

Our team has recently released SELS v0.4 software.
http://sels.ncsa.uiuc.edu/

This software release has two parts. One for the List Server (LS), which
 enables a list administrator to set up a Secure List Server using
Mailman and GnuPG. The second is for a List Moderator(LM), who  uses
this software to set up a secure list at the Secure List Server. Then
any list subscriber can exchange emails with the other list members
using COTS email clients with GnuPG plugins, ex: Thunderbird with
Enigmail. One main feature of our implementation is that the contents of
the email are never visible in plain text at the List Server. So even if
the List Server gets compromised, the message contents remain encrypted.

We look forward to your feedback, comments , suggestions.

Thanks and regards
Meenal Pant (SELS Team Member)

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jan  7 23:53:51 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 14:53:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman won't 'start' - but is working?
In-Reply-To: <478293D7.6090408@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008010714535107969ae2c94f@msapiro>

Charles Marcus wrote:

>I'm trying to be patient, but NO ONE has a clue or idea where I might 
>look to solve this?


As Brad says, we don't.

Here is an example of the init.d/mailman script that we distribute
after 'configure'.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
#!/bin/sh
#
# mailman    This shell script starts and stops GNU Mailman.
#
# Copyright (C) 2001-2003 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA
02110-1301, USA.
#
# Copy this file to /etc/init.d/ (or /etc/rc.d/init.d/ depending on
# your system) and activate it as such:
#
# On Debian, type "update-rc.d mailman defaults"
# On RedHat, and derivatives, install with "chkconfig --add mailman"
#
# chkconfig: 2345 98 12
# description: Mailman is the GNU Mailing List Manager, a program that \
#              manages electronic mail discussion groups.  For more \
#              on GNU Mailman see http://www.list.org
# processname: mailmanctl
# config: /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
# pidfile: /usr/local/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid

PYTHON=/usr/bin/python
MAILMANHOME=/usr/local/mailman
MAILMANCTL=$MAILMANHOME/bin/mailmanctl

case "$1" in
'start')
    #rm -f $MAILMANHOME/locks/*
    $PYTHON $MAILMANCTL -s -q start
    ;;

'stop')
    $PYTHON $MAILMANCTL -q stop
    ;;

'restart')
    $PYTHON $MAILMANCTL -q restart
    ;;

esac
exit 0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yours has relative paths, but you said you tried absolute paths too.
Your's also does su - mailman which is not needed (except for setting
the current directory to mailman's home for the relative paths) as
mailmanctl is designed to be run by root. There are other differences,
but I don't see why yours won't start mailman if the essentially
identical mailmanctl command typed by hand will.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Tue Jan  8 00:42:15 2008
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 18:42:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Lists
In-Reply-To: <20080105193251.GA5617@sbh16.songbird.com>
References: <20080102231623.B808D1E4005@bag.python.org>
	<PC176020080102154253035933a62ffc@msapiro>
	<20080105000717.A75B61E4008@bag.python.org>
	<20080105193251.GA5617@sbh16.songbird.com>
Message-ID: <20080107234232.EBCD81E4004@bag.python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 02:32 PM 1/5/2008, you wrote:

Look in Defaults.py for things like PREFIX, EXEC_PREFIX and
VAR_PREFIX,
and then for things defined in terms of these such as LIST_DATA_DIR,
LOG_DIR, etc.

Then look in mm_cfg.py for possible overrides.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

Thanks again for the help.

I knew it wasn't going to be that easy. Everything you mentioned seems
copacetic. I guess the next question is, can I set some kind of debug
that will give me some useful information in the logs?
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iD8DBQFHgrjO/fiWYqZ2tVQRAn+0AKDEE1wSwnEYAQzcI1JcSEb0LQw4AgCg0E5E
nIyqWFlpGkbwdscwloXv1+U=
=oC+3
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From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Jan  8 01:22:47 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 18:22:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Lists
In-Reply-To: <20080107234232.EBCD81E4004@bag.python.org>
References: <20080102231623.B808D1E4005@bag.python.org>
	<PC176020080102154253035933a62ffc@msapiro>
	<20080105000717.A75B61E4008@bag.python.org>
	<20080105193251.GA5617@sbh16.songbird.com>
	<20080107234232.EBCD81E4004@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p06240800c3a872a831e5@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/7/08, Dennis Putnam wrote:

>  I knew it wasn't going to be that easy. Everything you mentioned seems
>  copacetic. I guess the next question is, can I set some kind of debug
>  that will give me some useful information in the logs?

There is no "debug mode" with Mailman.  What you get in the logs is 
what you get in the logs.

You're free to go in and modify the source code to add more logging 
output, however.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Tue Jan  8 01:37:04 2008
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 19:37:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Lists
Message-ID: <20080108003722.AB1511E4004@bag.python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Thanks again. Please see the embedded responses.

At 07:10 PM 1/7/2008, you wrote:

What does Mailman's bin/list_lists show?

It shows my lists correctly.


What exactly is in mm_cfg.py and Defaults.py for VAR_PREFIX and
LIST_DATA_DIR. Note that if LIST_DATA_DIR is defined in Defaults.py as
os.path.join(VAR_PREFIX, 'lists'), redefining VAR_PREFIX in mm_cfg.py
will not change the location of LIST_DATA_DIR unless it is also
redefined in mm_cfg.py subsequent to the redefinition of VAR_PREFIX.

None are overridden in mm_cfg.py.

VAR_PREFIX = "/var/lib/mailman"


What happens if you do

[root at sbh16 mailman]# bin/withlist -i
No list name supplied.
Python 2.4.3 (#1, Mar 14 2007, 18:51:08)
[GCC 4.1.1 20070105 (Red Hat 4.1.1-52)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
(InteractiveConsole)
 >>> from Mailman import mm_cfg
 >>> mm_cfg.LIST_DATA_DIR
'/usr/local/mailman/lists'
 >>>

It shows my correct path "/var/lib/mailman/lists"

[root at sbh16 mailman]#

(the >>> lines are where you enter things. A control-D is entered on
the last line to quit)

Then do

ls -l /usr/local/mailman/lists

or whatever the output from the above was.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

It shows my mailing lists. I guess the implication is that something
else is wrong. Maybe some sub-process of mailman is not running?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32)

iD8DBQFHgsQe/fiWYqZ2tVQRAvw/AJ4n2Edpj9EhCBmnDBs4UpU9RTqtBACg/iaA
9OnhEdCeFXfvsevEWkAL9xk=
=ybEP
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From bga at altlinux.org  Tue Jan  8 01:41:23 2008
From: bga at altlinux.org (Grigory Batalov)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 03:41:23 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queue delays
In-Reply-To: <PC176020080107085910073422a65e68@msapiro>
References: <20080107190615.61fc2da5.bga@altlinux.org>
	<PC176020080107085910073422a65e68@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080108034123.36ef5cf0.bga@altlinux.org>

On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:59:10 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> >I have regular delays in message processing. Say, my server (Linux/Postfix)
> >receives a letter at 17:36 and quickly delivers it to the mailman queue (?).
> >Then message is hold for about 25 minutes and is processed again at 18:01.
> >
> >It is strange to me, why mailman keeps the message so long?
> >How can I investigate such situation?
> >
> >Maybe, other messages in queue could be the reason?
> >
> >$ ls -1 /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/in/|wc -l
> >0
> >$ ls -1 /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out/|wc -l
> >120
> >$ ls -1 /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/retry/|wc -l
> >121
> 
> 
> Why is the out queue backlogged with 120 messages?

  I guess, that is because "retry" messages come back to "out" queue
  from time to time. In sum "out" and "retry" always give 200-250 letters.

> Why are there 121
> messages being retried. What is in Mailman's smtp-failure log?

  It is full of errors:

Jan 08 01:55:00 2008 (13316) All recipients refused: {'mak at rsmu.ru': (450, '4.1.2 <mak at rsmu.ru>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found')}, msgid: <20080107110706.GC32553 at nevod.ru>
Jan 08 01:55:00 2008 (13316) delivery to mak at rsmu.ru failed with code 450: 4.1.2 <mak at rsmu.ru>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found

  with several different emails and different message-ids.
  About 42000 lines per day.

> What does Mailman's smtp log look like? Does it show evidence of
> 'continuous processing'?

  Well, there are messages like this:

Jan 08 01:55:11 2008 (12250) <47815B62.3090806 at gmail.com> smtp to sisyphus for 1 recips, completed in 30.005 seconds

  About 21000 posts per day, every took 30 seconds "for 1 recips".
  Should they address more recipients or take less time?

> >There are 8 Incoming, 8 Outgoing, 4 Retry and 4 Bounce qrunners on the server.
> 
> 
> Why so many runners? Do you really need that much parallelism?

  I thought they would process queue faster.

> The issue appears to be a backlogged 'out' queue. In order to say more,
> we need to know what's causing all the retries (smtp-failure log) and
> whether there are outgoing messages taking inordinately long to
> process (smtp log).

-- 
 Grigory Batalov,
 ALT Linux Team
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From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Tue Jan  8 01:52:08 2008
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 19:52:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Lists
Message-ID: <20080108005741.710AC1E4004@bag.python.org>

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I just discovered something that may or may not be useful. Just for
grins I tried sending a request to the request mail box. I saw some
errors in the syslog but the main one is that there is a group error.
The mailman wrapper expected to be run as group 'mail' but ran as
group 'mailman' instead. This sounds like and ownership issue now.
Everything is owned by 'mailman; and has group 'mail'. The mailman
user is a member of both groups with 'mailman' as the primary.
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From bga at altlinux.org  Tue Jan  8 01:58:19 2008
From: bga at altlinux.org (Grigory Batalov)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 03:58:19 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queue delays
In-Reply-To: <20080108034123.36ef5cf0.bga@altlinux.org>
References: <20080107190615.61fc2da5.bga@altlinux.org>
	<PC176020080107085910073422a65e68@msapiro>
	<20080108034123.36ef5cf0.bga@altlinux.org>
Message-ID: <20080108035819.5b3c1148.bga@altlinux.org>

On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 03:41:23 +0300, Grigory Batalov wrote:

> > What does Mailman's smtp log look like? Does it show evidence of
> > 'continuous processing'?
> 
>   Well, there are messages like this:
> 
> Jan 08 01:55:11 2008 (12250) <47815B62.3090806 at gmail.com> smtp to sisyphus for 1 recips, completed in 30.005 seconds
> 
>   About 21000 posts per day, every took 30 seconds "for 1 recips".
>   Should they address more recipients or take less time?

  Sorry, not every. Some of messages are for 10-400 recipients and
  completed in 0.1-50 seconds (depending on recipients count).
  Probably these are "real" messages, and those I wrote before
  are "retries".

> > The issue appears to be a backlogged 'out' queue. In order to say more,
> > we need to know what's causing all the retries (smtp-failure log) and
> > whether there are outgoing messages taking inordinately long to
> > process (smtp log).

-- 
 Grigory Batalov,
 ALT Linux Team
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From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan  8 02:09:03 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 17:09:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Lists
In-Reply-To: <20080108003722.AB1511E4004@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008010717090302185100dbdd@msapiro>

Dennis Putnam wrote:
>
>At 07:10 PM 1/7/2008, you wrote:
>
>What does Mailman's bin/list_lists show?
>
>It shows my lists correctly.


I am confused.

Your original post said "Well, mailman works but it does not recognize
any of my old lists. How do I get Mailman to see the lists again?"

Now you say bin/list_lists shows your lists.

Please try to be more specific about exactly what does and doesn't
work, and what happens in the non-working cases.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan  8 02:17:58 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 17:17:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Lists
In-Reply-To: <20080108005741.710AC1E4004@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008010717175803437264c1f1@msapiro>

Dennis Putnam wrote:
>
>I just discovered something that may or may not be useful. Just for
>grins I tried sending a request to the request mail box. I saw some
>errors in the syslog but the main one is that there is a group error.
>The mailman wrapper expected to be run as group 'mail' but ran as
>group 'mailman' instead. This sounds like and ownership issue now.
>Everything is owned by 'mailman; and has group 'mail'. The mailman
>user is a member of both groups with 'mailman' as the primary.


This is a group mismatch error and will prevent any mail from reaching
Mailman. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>.

I'm guessing that this is Postfix. I would say, if that is the case, to
make the owner of Mailman's aliases* files 'mail' to fix this, but I'm
confused as to what in particular the definitions of MAILMAN_USER and
MAILMAN_GROUP are (in Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py).

What happens if you run bin/check_perms?


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan  8 02:31:27 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 17:31:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queue delays
In-Reply-To: <20080108034123.36ef5cf0.bga@altlinux.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008010717312706717264c31a@msapiro>

Grigory Batalov wrote:
>
>On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:59:10 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>
>> Why are there 121
>> messages being retried. What is in Mailman's smtp-failure log?
>
>  It is full of errors:
>
>Jan 08 01:55:00 2008 (13316) All recipients refused: {'mak at rsmu.ru': (450, '4.1.2 <mak at rsmu.ru>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found')}, msgid: <20080107110706.GC32553 at nevod.ru>
>Jan 08 01:55:00 2008 (13316) delivery to mak at rsmu.ru failed with code 450: 4.1.2 <mak at rsmu.ru>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found


You have two major, serious problems in your MTA configuration. First,
it is doing DNS lookups on recipients at SMTP time. Apparently, from
your followup post, when the recipient domain is invalid, it take 30
seconds for this lookup to time out.

The second problem is when the domain is invalid, the MTA returns a 450
(retryable error) instead of a 550 which would record a bounce.

See some of the FAQs returned by
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=performance+mta&querytype=allkeywords&casefold=yes&req=search>
for more info.


>  with several different emails and different message-ids.
>  About 42000 lines per day.
>
>> What does Mailman's smtp log look like? Does it show evidence of
>> 'continuous processing'?
>
>  Well, there are messages like this:
>
>Jan 08 01:55:11 2008 (12250) <47815B62.3090806 at gmail.com> smtp to sisyphus for 1 recips, completed in 30.005 seconds
>
>  About 21000 posts per day, every took 30 seconds "for 1 recips".
>  Should they address more recipients or take less time?
>
>> >There are 8 Incoming, 8 Outgoing, 4 Retry and 4 Bounce qrunners on the server.
>> 
>> 
>> Why so many runners? Do you really need that much parallelism?
>
>  I thought they would process queue faster.


Once you resolve your MTA issues, I think you'll find that one slice
per queue will be adequate.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bga at altlinux.org  Tue Jan  8 03:05:07 2008
From: bga at altlinux.org (Grigory Batalov)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 05:05:07 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queue delays
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008010717312706717264c31a@msapiro>
References: <20080108034123.36ef5cf0.bga@altlinux.org>
	<PC17602008010717312706717264c31a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080108050507.352937e3.bga@altlinux.org>

On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 17:31:27 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> >> Why are there 121
> >> messages being retried. What is in Mailman's smtp-failure log?
> >
> >  It is full of errors:
> >
> >Jan 08 01:55:00 2008 (13316) All recipients refused: {'mak at rsmu.ru': (450, '4.1.2 <mak at rsmu.ru>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found')}, msgid: <20080107110706.GC32553 at nevod.ru>
> >Jan 08 01:55:00 2008 (13316) delivery to mak at rsmu.ru failed with code 450: 4.1.2 <mak at rsmu.ru>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found
> 
> You have two major, serious problems in your MTA configuration. First,
> it is doing DNS lookups on recipients at SMTP time. Apparently, from
> your followup post, when the recipient domain is invalid, it take 30
> seconds for this lookup to time out.

  You are absolutely right. There was domain check in Postfix:

smtpd_recipient_restrictions = 
        reject_non_fqdn_recipient,
        reject_unknown_recipient_domain,
        check_recipient_access cdb:/etc/postfix/smtpd_recipient_restrictions,
        permit_mynetworks,
        reject_unauth_destination

  I've moved "permit_mynetworks" upper and queue quickly got purged.

> The second problem is when the domain is invalid, the MTA returns a 450
> (retryable error) instead of a 550 which would record a bounce.
> 
> See some of the FAQs returned by
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=performance+mta&querytype=allkeywords&casefold=yes&req=search>
> for more info.

  Thanks.
...
> >> >There are 8 Incoming, 8 Outgoing, 4 Retry and 4 Bounce qrunners on the server.
> >> 
> >> Why so many runners? Do you really need that much parallelism?
> >
> >  I thought they would process queue faster.
> 
> Once you resolve your MTA issues, I think you'll find that one slice
> per queue will be adequate.

  Sure. Thank you very much!

-- 
 Grigory Batalov,
 ALT Linux Team
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From marrie12 at gmail.com  Tue Jan  8 09:21:25 2008
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 00:21:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Users - help
References: <BAYC1-PASMTP03461720FC944CB10E1917D94F0@CEZ.ICE>
	<005d01c85185$7618dbe0$6401a8c0@sacomputer>
	<BAYC1-PASMTP08EECC6D0D4B865FE63683D94F0@CEZ.ICE>
Message-ID: <00ea01c851cf$934a2850$6501a8c0@sacomputer>

Sure.
www.ultrahost.us.
There is a contact link on the page. they answer right away if they can. Tha'ts what impresses me and the person helping me never put me down or anything even though I felt like the questions I asked were dumb. The sign up process was quite easy.

SA&G
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Wendy Litvak, Discovery Toys 
To: Sarah 
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users - help


thanks Sarah,
do you have the contact info for ultrahost? how do you find them?
wendy
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Sarah 
  To: Wendy Litvak, Discovery Toys 
  Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 6:31 PM
  Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users - help


  I don'tknwo if you can do that with mail man. I only use mail man as a list serve and ultrahost is hosting it for me.

  SA&G
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Wendy Litvak, Discovery Toys 
  To: marrie12 at gmail.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 9:52 AM
  Subject: [Mailman-Users - help


  Hi Sarah,
  I saw your email in the archives of the mailman site.  I'd like to set up a data base for my customers - have a few different folders I can set up for different mailings.

  It looks like you had some help with that - can you let me know how it's working for you, and how you imported your addresses into the mailman list.

  is there any cost associated with this?

  thanks
  wendy

  Wendy Litvak  
  www.discoverytoyslink.com/WendyLitvak

  ENJOY a $50 or $100 FREE SHOPPING SPREE

  EARN EXTRA HOLIDAY $$ and SHOP FOR FREE!  

  HAVE THE STORE COME TO YOUR DOOR - No lines, parking, traffic!  Save time, relax and SHOP FROM HOME!

  Call or email for details and for a catalogue - over 50 NEW PRODUCTS including EXCLUSIVE PLAYSCHOOL/HASBRO Toys for Discovery Toys!

From anne.ramey at its.nc.gov  Tue Jan  8 18:06:29 2008
From: anne.ramey at its.nc.gov (Ramey, Anne)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 12:06:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posts not showing in archives
Message-ID: <84B164C70C4C6849BDA441101DB803651D5CB19984@NCWITMXMBEV31.ad.ncmail>

I have a list that had 2 recent posts that are not showing up in the archives.  They are in the post log as successful posts, but don't show in the archive.  Any idea how that could happen?  The archiving settings are to rotate monthly, privacy set to private.

Thanks,

Anne

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan  8 18:23:03 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 09:23:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posts not showing in archives
In-Reply-To: <84B164C70C4C6849BDA441101DB803651D5CB19984@NCWITMXMBEV31.ad.ncmail>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801080923030843b937de2e@msapiro>

Ramey, Anne wrote:

>I have a list that had 2 recent posts that are not showing up in the archives.  They are in the post log as successful posts, but don't show in the archive.  Any idea how that could happen?  The archiving settings are to rotate monthly, privacy set to private.


Is ArchRunner running? Are the messages still in the archive queue?

Is only this one list affected? Is there anything in Mailman's 'error'
log?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From knabe at 4j.lane.edu  Tue Jan  8 18:56:48 2008
From: knabe at 4j.lane.edu (Troy Knabe)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 09:56:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] approved senders
Message-ID: <1361CA23-0255-4E8C-8C48-F8F53E1AB504@4j.lane.edu>

For accept_these_nonmembers I would like to add my entire domain.  So  
I added "^@my.domain.com" w/out the quotes, but that doesn't seem to  
be working.  Any suggestions for my wrong syntax?

Thanks
-Troy



From anne.ramey at its.nc.gov  Tue Jan  8 18:59:02 2008
From: anne.ramey at its.nc.gov (Ramey, Anne)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 12:59:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posts not showing in archives
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200801080923030843b937de2e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <84B164C70C4C6849BDA441101DB803651D5CB199CD@NCWITMXMBEV31.ad.ncmail>



From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 12:23 PM
To: Ramey, Anne; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Posts not showing in archives

Ramey, Anne wrote:

>I have a list that had 2 recent posts that are not showing up in the archives.  They are in the post log as successful posts, but don't show in the archive.  Any idea how that could happen?  The archiving settings are to rotate monthly, privacy set to private.


Is ArchRunner running? Are the messages still in the archive queue?


Is only this one list affected? Is there anything in Mailman's 'error'
log?

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

Archrunner is running, other lists archived in that timeframe fine.  There is nothing in the error log.  The messages are listed as successful posts and were delivered successfully.  There doesn't appear to be anything waiting in the archive queue.  It is also just the messages on the 3rd and 5th that didn't get in the archive.  The message on the 7th (yesterday) is there.

Thanks,
Anne

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan  8 19:18:47 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 10:18:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] approved senders
In-Reply-To: <1361CA23-0255-4E8C-8C48-F8F53E1AB504@4j.lane.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801081018470062714eeecd@msapiro>

Troy Knabe wrote:

>For accept_these_nonmembers I would like to add my entire domain.  So  
>I added "^@my.domain.com" w/out the quotes, but that doesn't seem to  
>be working.  Any suggestions for my wrong syntax?


Try  ^[^@]+ at my.domain.com$

See <http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan  8 19:32:33 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 10:32:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] approved senders
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200801081018470062714eeecd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801081032330718271ae86f@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>Try  ^[^@]+ at my.domain.com$


To be really correct, that should be   ^[^@]+ at my\.domain\.com$


^[^@]+ at my.domain.com$ would allow for example user at myxdomain.com


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Tue Jan  8 20:01:31 2008
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 13:01:31 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posts not showing in archives
In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Ramey, Anne" <anne.ramey@its.nc.gov>'
	dated: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 12:59:02 -0500
Message-ID: <200801081901.m08J1VTL003622@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

Anne Ramey wrote:
>>>I have a list that had 2 recent posts that are not showing up in the
>>>archives.  They are in the post log as successful posts, but don't show
>>>in the archive.  Any idea how that could happen?  The archiving
>>>settings are to rotate monthly, privacy set to private.


And Mark Sapiro replied:
>>Is ArchRunner running? Are the messages still in the archive queue?
>>
>>
>>Is only this one list affected? Is there anything in Mailman's 'error'
>>log?


>And Anne Ramey replied:
>Archrunner is running, other lists archived in that timeframe fine.
>There is nothing in the error log.  The messages are listed as
>successful posts and were delivered successfully.  There doesn't appear
>to be anything waiting in the archive queue.  It is also just the
>messages on the 3rd and 5th that didn't get in the archive.  The
>message on the 7th (yesterday) is there.


Do the missing messages have the same message-id as a message already
in the archives?  I had an archive question in December, and Mark's
reply was that a message will not be archived if its message-id
already appears in the archive, as the second message is a duplicate
of the first.  (RFC 2822 says that the message-id must be unique.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan  8 20:59:46 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 11:59:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posts not showing in archives
In-Reply-To: <200801081901.m08J1VTL003622@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801081159460921714ef227@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:
>
>>And Anne Ramey replied:
>>Archrunner is running, other lists archived in that timeframe fine.
>>There is nothing in the error log.  The messages are listed as
>>successful posts and were delivered successfully.  There doesn't appear
>>to be anything waiting in the archive queue.  It is also just the
>>messages on the 3rd and 5th that didn't get in the archive.  The
>>message on the 7th (yesterday) is there.
>
>
>Do the missing messages have the same message-id as a message already
>in the archives?  I had an archive question in December, and Mark's
>reply was that a message will not be archived if its message-id
>already appears in the archive, as the second message is a duplicate
>of the first.  (RFC 2822 says that the message-id must be unique.)


Barry is correct. You can verify whether or not this is the reason by
looking in the archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file. If
the 'missing' messages are not in the HTML archive because of
duplicate message-ids, they will be in the
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file and you can also
search for possible dup message-ids.

If the missing posts are not in the
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file, the only other
thing I can think of is that someone set the lists archive setting to
'No' prior to the message on the 3rd and it was set back to 'Yes'
after the 5th.

Note that even if you don't write the
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox because of
ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX being set to other than 2, you can still search the
post log for duplicate message-ids.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Tue Jan  8 21:09:29 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 15:09:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] approved senders
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200801081018470062714eeecd@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200801081018470062714eeecd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4783D879.3020501@Media-Brokers.com>

Mark Sapiro, on 1/8/2008 1:18 PM, said the following:
> Troy Knabe wrote:
> 
>> For accept_these_nonmembers I would like to add my entire domain.  So  
>> I added "^@my.domain.com" w/out the quotes, but that doesn't seem to  
>> be working.  Any suggestions for my wrong syntax?
> 
> 
> Try  ^[^@]+ at my.domain.com$

But doing this you lose the benefit of recipient validation - meaning, 
spam sent 'Fm:' an invalid address in your domain will be allowed 
through... or am I missing something?

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From anne.ramey at its.nc.gov  Tue Jan  8 21:10:26 2008
From: anne.ramey at its.nc.gov (Ramey, Anne)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 15:10:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posts not showing in archives
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200801081159460921714ef227@msapiro>
Message-ID: <84B164C70C4C6849BDA441101DB803651D5CB19B51@NCWITMXMBEV31.ad.ncmail>


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 3:00 PM
To: Mailman-Users at python.org
Cc: Barry Finkel; Ramey, Anne
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Posts not showing in archives

Barry Finkel wrote:
>
>>And Anne Ramey replied:
>>Archrunner is running, other lists archived in that timeframe fine.
>>There is nothing in the error log.  The messages are listed as
>>successful posts and were delivered successfully.  There doesn't appear
>>to be anything waiting in the archive queue.  It is also just the
>>messages on the 3rd and 5th that didn't get in the archive.  The
>>message on the 7th (yesterday) is there.
>
>
>Do the missing messages have the same message-id as a message already
>in the archives?  I had an archive question in December, and Mark's
>reply was that a message will not be archived if its message-id
>already appears in the archive, as the second message is a duplicate
>of the first.  (RFC 2822 says that the message-id must be unique.)


Barry is correct. You can verify whether or not this is the reason by
looking in the archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file. If
the 'missing' messages are not in the HTML archive because of
duplicate message-ids, they will be in the
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file and you can also
search for possible dup message-ids.

If the missing posts are not in the
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file, the only other
thing I can think of is that someone set the lists archive setting to
'No' prior to the message on the 3rd and it was set back to 'Yes'
after the 5th.

Note that even if you don't write the
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox because of
ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX being set to other than 2, you can still search the
post log for duplicate message-ids.

----------------
The messages are not in the mbox file and the list owner/admin swears they didn't change the settings.  Interesting.

Anne



From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Wed Jan  9 00:48:24 2008
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 18:48:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Lists
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008010717175803437264c1f1@msapiro>
References: <20080108005741.710AC1E4004@bag.python.org>
	<PC17602008010717175803437264c1f1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080108234844.1379A1E4017@bag.python.org>

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At 08:17 PM 1/7/2008, you wrote:

This is a group mismatch error and will prevent any mail from reaching
Mailman. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>
.

I'm guessing that this is Postfix. I would say, if that is the case,
to
make the owner of Mailman's aliases* files 'mail' to fix this, but I'm
confused as to what in particular the definitions of MAILMAN_USER and
MAILMAN_GROUP are (in Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py).

It is in Defaluts.py and I see an uh,oh.

MAILMAN_USER='mail'
MAILMAN_GROUP='mail'


What happens if you run bin/check_perms?

Lots of uh, ohs here:

directory must be at least 02775: /usr/lib/mailman
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/bin
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/cron
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/mail
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/scripts
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/tests
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Commands
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Gui
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MTA
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/ar
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/ca
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/cs
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/da
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/de
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/es
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/et
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/eu
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/fi
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/fr
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/hr
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/hu
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/ia
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/it
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/ja
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/ko
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/lt
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/nl
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/no
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/pl
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/pt
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/pt_BR
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/ro
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/ru
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/sl
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/sr
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/sv
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/tr
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/uk
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/vi
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/zh_CN
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/messages/zh_TW
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/ar/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/ca/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/cs/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/da/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/de/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/es/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/et/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/eu/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/fi/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/fr/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/hr/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/hu/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/ia/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/it/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/ja/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/ko/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/lt/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/nl/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/no/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/pl/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/pt/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/pt_BR/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/ro/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/ru/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/sl/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/sr/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/sv/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/tr/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/uk/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/vi/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/zh_CN/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/messages/zh_TW/LC_MESSAGES
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/japanese
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/korean
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/lib
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/japanese/aliases
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/japanese/c
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/japanese/mappings
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/japanese/python
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/korean/c
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/korean/mappings
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/korean/python
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/lib/python2.4
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/lib/python2.4/site-packages
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/ar
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/ca
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/cs
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/da
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/de
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/en
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/es
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/et
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/eu
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/fi
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/fr
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/hr
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/hu
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/ia
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/it
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/ja
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/ko
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/lt
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/nl
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/no
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/pl
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/pt
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/pt_BR
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/ro
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/ru
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/sl
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/sr
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/sv
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/tr
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/uk
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/vi
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/zh_CN
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/zh_TW
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/templates/site
directory permissions must be 02775:
/usr/lib/mailman/templates/site/en
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/tests/bounces
directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/lib/mailman/tests/msgs
directory must be at least 02775: /var/lib/mailman
Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
          This could allow other users on your system to read private
          archives.
          If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult
          the
          installation manual on how to fix this.
/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/edithtml must be set-gid
/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/admin must be set-gid
/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/admindb must be set-gid
/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/confirm must be set-gid
/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/create must be set-gid
/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo must be set-gid
/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/options must be set-gid
/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/private must be set-gid
/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/rmlist must be set-gid
/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/roster must be set-gid
/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/subscribe must be set-gid
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman must be set-gid
/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db owned by mailman (must be owned by
mail
Problems found: 148
Re-run as mail (or root) with -f flag to fix

I did the check_perms -f and that seemed to fix it. Nice command. I
wish I had been able to find it in the docs without knowing about it
first.

Thanks. I owe you an adult beverage of your choice.

However, I am still concerned with the ownership issue. Should I
change it in mm_cfg.py to MAILMAN_USER='mailman' since that is what
the ownership is set to? I am wondering if this is really working
fully since I have not tested every nuance.



- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
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From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan  9 02:21:23 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 17:21:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Lists
In-Reply-To: <20080108233251.337296900A7@sbh16.songbird.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008010817212307814b7ede24@msapiro>

Dennis Putnam wrote:
>
>At 08:09 PM 1/7/2008, you wrote:
>
>I am confused.
>
>At least I'm not alone. :-)
>
>
>Your original post said "Well, mailman works but it does not recognize
>any of my old lists. How do I get Mailman to see the lists again?"
>
>Correct.
>
>
>Now you say bin/list_lists shows your lists.
>
>Correct.
>
>
>Please try to be more specific about exactly what does and doesn't
>work, and what happens in the non-working cases.
>
>When I try to access lists/admin via the web it ways there are none
>defined.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>


>When I try to send a message to a list, nothing noticeable
>happens other then logs showing it was delivered to the correct
>mailbox.


Mail to a list should not be delivered to a mailbox. It should be piped
to a command such as "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post listname"

Do you have aliases for all your lists in
/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases*? (Try running
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan  9 02:33:36 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 17:33:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Lists
In-Reply-To: <20080108234844.1379A1E4017@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020080108173336029664c3a6cc@msapiro>

Dennis Putnam wrote:
>
>At 08:17 PM 1/7/2008, you wrote:
>
>This is a group mismatch error and will prevent any mail from reaching
>Mailman. See
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>
>.
>
>I'm guessing that this is Postfix. I would say, if that is the case,
>to
>make the owner of Mailman's aliases* files 'mail' to fix this, but I'm
>confused as to what in particular the definitions of MAILMAN_USER and
>MAILMAN_GROUP are (in Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py).
>
>It is in Defaluts.py and I see an uh,oh.
>
>MAILMAN_USER='mail'
>MAILMAN_GROUP='mail'


Not necessarily. It's probably OK for the Maliman user:group to be
mail:mail. The only problem is if this gives too much access to other
processes running as user or group 'mail'.


>What happens if you run bin/check_perms?
>
>Lots of uh, ohs here:

<snip>

>Re-run as mail (or root) with -f flag to fix
>
>I did the check_perms -f and that seemed to fix it. Nice command. I
>wish I had been able to find it in the docs without knowing about it
>first.
>
>Thanks. I owe you an adult beverage of your choice.
>
>However, I am still concerned with the ownership issue. Should I
>change it in mm_cfg.py to MAILMAN_USER='mailman' since that is what
>the ownership is set to? I am wondering if this is really working
>fully since I have not tested every nuance.


With the exception of /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db (for Postfix),
the owner of files im Mailman's tree is immaterial. They are most
often owned by root as root is normally the user that installs them.
Everything in Mailman is based on group. All directories and all
wrappers should be SETGID and group = MAILMAN_GROUP. check_perms
should have taken care of that.

Also, files like logs need to be group writable which check_perms
doesn't check (a bug that will be fixed).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Wed Jan  9 03:54:51 2008
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:54:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail Processing Problem?
Message-ID: <20080109025504.8FE501E4017@bag.python.org>

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I'm beginning to think it would have been easier to just start all
over if I didn't care about my users getting upset. Anyway I still
seem to have a problem that I didn't have before the restore.

Since I don't know what is supposed to happen during processing I
guess all I can do is guess. When I send a request to one on my lists
(<list name>-request) the smtp log shows an error. The request gets
processed at least is it piped tp the mailman request command, and
then seems to get sent to <list name.-bounces>. The problem is that it
tries to send it via hostname.domain.com which my SMTP server tries to
send to my ISPs mail host. The mail is summarily rejected. I THINK it
should be going to <list name>-bounces at localhost instead. In any case
what is supposed to be happening here and why it is trying to send it
to bounces? Thanks.
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From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan  9 04:36:56 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 19:36:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail Processing Problem?
In-Reply-To: <20080109025504.8FE501E4017@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008010819365603122eb12fd0@msapiro>

Dennis Putnam wrote:
>
>Since I don't know what is supposed to happen during processing I
>guess all I can do is guess. When I send a request to one on my lists
>(<list name>-request) the smtp log shows an error. The request gets
>processed at least is it piped tp the mailman request command, and
>then seems to get sent to <list name.-bounces>. The problem is that it
>tries to send it via hostname.domain.com which my SMTP server tries to
>send to my ISPs mail host. The mail is summarily rejected. I THINK it
>should be going to <list name>-bounces at localhost instead. In any case
>what is supposed to be happening here and why it is trying to send it
>to bounces? Thanks.


One thing you can try is to create a new test list and see if that
works. Then at least, you will have a better idea if there is some
issue with mailman or if it has specifically to do with the restored
lists.

That said, here's what's supposeed to happen when you mail
listname-request.

The mail is piped to "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman request listname".

It is processed by the scripts/request script and the results are sent
to the From: address of the original mail with the subject "The
results of your email commands". This message is sent from and with
envelope from listname-bounces at ...

That message is either delivered to the original sender (you) or it
bounces in which case the bounce is sent to the listname-bounces
address. The domain in the from/sender of the reply is the host_name
attribute of the list which should not be 'localhost'

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mueminoglu at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 13:14:15 2008
From: mueminoglu at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-9?Q?Murat_Ugur_EM=DDNO=D0LU?=)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 14:14:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problem
Message-ID: <905486c70801090414v4834b0b0n9b5c23b92c365620@mail.gmail.com>

how can i write every user name and surname whose the mail has sent, when i
send a mail to a list?

Thanks.
<mailman-users at python.org>

From javiabd at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  9 14:35:26 2008
From: javiabd at yahoo.com (Abdul Javid)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 05:35:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow or Missed mails
Message-ID: <626426.86501.qm@web63707.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

HI
I started using mailman for 200 plus members in the list

I noticed the mail processing is slow and sometimes they are notprocessed at all

I see the mail in list of archives but its not sent.

How do I fix this.

Is there a setting to process fast and see what is sent and what is not sent.

Thanks in advance.

Abdul

       
---------------------------------
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From flynnibus at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  9 15:56:41 2008
From: flynnibus at yahoo.com (steve)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 06:56:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow or Missed mails
In-Reply-To: <626426.86501.qm@web63707.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <803973.74497.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Have you checked your mailer's log files for details on the messages that are missing?

Abdul Javid <javiabd at yahoo.com> wrote: HI
I started using mailman for 200 plus members in the list

I noticed the mail processing is slow and sometimes they are notprocessed at all

I see the mail in list of archives but its not sent.

How do I fix this.

Is there a setting to process fast and see what is sent and what is not sent.

Thanks in advance.

Abdul

       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
------------------------------------------------------
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From eva at vihrealiitto.fi  Wed Jan  9 15:45:21 2008
From: eva at vihrealiitto.fi (Eva Isaksson)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:45:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UTF-8 question
Message-ID: <20080109144521.GA9962@vihreat.fi>


Recently, I was asked to set our mailman installation to utf-8.
Our server is running the debian 2.1.9 mailman package.
I did this, and it "works" -- but I have a question anyway.

I started with the current settings: default language Finnish, 
charset iso-8859-1. 

The changes made for utf-8 included:
- changing the template files and the Finnish translation file
into utf-8 with iconv.
- fixing the mm_cfg.py by making DEFAULT_CHARSET = 'UTF-8'
and copying the relevant litany of LC_DESCRIPTIONS from
Defaults.py into mm_cfg.py and setting Finnish into utf-8.

Now, the problem that keeps puzzling me:

1. Before the change, mails with charset=iso-8859-1 and
charset=utf-8 were being distributed with the charset
untouched. I figured out as this is how it should be - right?

2. As our server hosts a lot of lists (almost 400 of them)
I decided to try utf-8 out on a smaller scale first, on an 
Ubuntu server, running only a couple of lists with its standard 
mailman package, version 2.1.5. The utf-8 change was a success. 
The webpages and archive were all okay, and the charset of 
mails was untouched too.

3. As things looked promising, I decided to proceed with our
real list server. The result: 
Web pages, archive, all okay, now in utf-8.
Mails... all of them in utf-8. And I mean ALL mails.

My question: was this to be expected? Is everything meant
to be in utf-8 from now on, including the forcing of
charset=utf-8 into all list mail headers? And why didn't this 
happen neither with the iso-8859-1 settings, nor with the
Ubuntu server?


- Eva
-- 
 Eva Isaksson * eva at vihreat.fi * Eva.Isaksson at Helsinki.Fi
 http://www.helsinki.fi/~eisaksso/

From admin2 at enabled.com  Wed Jan  9 16:39:40 2008
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 07:39:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spamassassin and mailman
Message-ID: <4784EABC.8040907@enabled.com>

Hi there,

many of our list moderators are receiving quite a bit of moderated 
messages that is spam.  Sometimes 20 to 40 or even more times a day.  I 
am wondering if there is a way to send all list mail through SA rules 
and then trash the mail that is a specific score so it never even gets 
moderated.  Any clues on how to accomplish this?

Cheers,

Noah

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan  9 17:03:44 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 08:03:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow or Missed mails
In-Reply-To: <803973.74497.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080109080344082860294228@msapiro>

steve wrote:

>Have you checked your mailer's log files for details on the messages that are missing?
>
>Abdul Javid <javiabd at yahoo.com> wrote: HI
>I started using mailman for 200 plus members in the list
>
>I noticed the mail processing is slow and sometimes they are notprocessed at all
>
>I see the mail in list of archives but its not sent.


Also check Mailman's logs. In particular 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure'.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>.
Also, see articles returned by
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=performance+mta&querytype=allkeywords&casefold=yes&req=search>,
in particular, 4.11 and 6.x.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan  9 17:09:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 08:09:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spamassassin and mailman
In-Reply-To: <4784EABC.8040907@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080109080908017178d051f3@msapiro>

Noah wrote:
>
>many of our list moderators are receiving quite a bit of moderated 
>messages that is spam.  Sometimes 20 to 40 or even more times a day.  I 
>am wondering if there is a way to send all list mail through SA rules 
>and then trash the mail that is a specific score so it never even gets 
>moderated.  Any clues on how to accomplish this?


It is best to do this in the incoming MTA before Mailman, but go to
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103> and browse
for Summary keyword: spamassassin

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan  9 17:21:17 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 08:21:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problem
In-Reply-To: <905486c70801090414v4834b0b0n9b5c23b92c365620@mail.gmail.com>
References: <905486c70801090414v4834b0b0n9b5c23b92c365620@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4784F47D.3010301@msapiro.net>

Murat Ugur EM0NO
LU wrote:
> how can i write every user name and surname whose the mail has sent, when i
> send a mail to a list?

Write them where?

If you mean put the individual recipient's name in the To: header or the
msg_header or msg_footer of that recipient's email, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.015.htp>.

If you mean something else, I don't understand.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lluisgomez at hangar.org  Wed Jan  9 22:52:00 2008
From: lluisgomez at hangar.org (lluisgomez at hangar.org)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 22:52:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] howto cancell a message
Message-ID: <20080109225200.y83wq5dr4kk4gwog@mail.hangar.org>

hi people, just a begginer question :

if i send a wrong message to a mailman list, there is a way to stop  
delivering this message?

thanks in advance,
ll.



----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Thu Jan 10 00:34:29 2008
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 18:34:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Lists
In-Reply-To: <4784BB6D.4090406@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <20080108005741.710AC1E4004@bag.python.org>
	<PC17602008010717175803437264c1f1@msapiro>
	<20080108234844.1379A1E4017@bag.python.org>
	<4784BB6D.4090406@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <20080109233901.ACEE91E4006@bag.python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 07:17 AM 1/9/2008, you wrote:

???

Are you mixing in your replies with the quoted text here without
distinuguishing the quoted text? That is VERY confusing, and will get
your posts bit-canned by a lot of people, just fyi...


That's odd. The text appears quoted when I am creating the reply. It
must somehow be stripped when sent. I'll have to see what is going on.
Thanks for the heads up and my apologies to the list.




- --

Best regards,

Charles Marcus
I.T. Director
Media Brokers International
678.514.6200 x224
678.514.6299 fax

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From jonathan at nerds.net  Thu Jan 10 00:39:03 2008
From: jonathan at nerds.net (Jonathan Dill)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 18:39:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] howto cancell a message
In-Reply-To: <20080109225200.y83wq5dr4kk4gwog@mail.hangar.org>
References: <20080109225200.y83wq5dr4kk4gwog@mail.hangar.org>
Message-ID: <47855B17.1020500@nerds.net>

lluisgomez at hangar.org wrote:
> hi people, just a begginer question :
>
> if i send a wrong message to a mailman list, there is a way to stop  
> delivering this message?
>   
Unless you have a slow server, a very large mailing lists, or a slow 
internet connection, by the time that you decide to stop the message, it 
is probably already too late.  If this is for example an announcements 
list / newsletter, the best thing is to have all messages moderated, or 
even set up a separate "test" list so that you can do a "dry run" to 
make sure everything looks OK before you send it out to the real list.

I have a client with a ~50,000 subscriber newsletter that goes out once 
a week, and they always send it out to an internal test list first so 
they can check for spelling errors or anything else that might be 
embarrassing before the message goes out.  Even so, I did have to abort 
the newsletter on a couple occasions.  By the time that they realized 
that there was a problem, mailman had already done its job, all of the 
messages were sitting in the postfix queue.  At that point, the exact 
procedure depends on what mail server you are using e.g. postfix, qmail, 
sendmail etc.

Jonathan

From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Thu Jan 10 01:38:37 2008
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 19:38:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail Processing Problem?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008010819365603122eb12fd0@msapiro>
References: <20080109025504.8FE501E4017@bag.python.org>
	<PC17602008010819365603122eb12fd0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080110003859.96F5C1E400E@bag.python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I'll give that a try. In the mean time maybe it is not what I thought
based on your explanation. The specific error from my ISP complains
about a missing DNS entry for RCPT TO. How do I set mailman to place
the correct RCPT TO information in the headers for my SMTP server. I
tried setting:

DEFAULT_REPLY_GOES_TO_LIST = 2
REPLY_TO_ADDRESS = '<acceptable host/domain>'

It seems that is not what it is using for the RCPT TO.

Thanks again.

At 10:36 PM 1/8/2008, you wrote:


One thing you can try is to create a new test list and see if that
works. Then at least, you will have a better idea if there is some
issue with mailman or if it has specifically to do with the restored
lists.

That said, here's what's supposeed to happen when you mail
listname-request.

The mail is piped to "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman request
listname".

It is processed by the scripts/request script and the results are sent
to the From: address of the original mail with the subject "The
results of your email commands". This message is sent from and with
envelope from listname-bounces at ...

That message is either delivered to the original sender (you) or it
bounces in which case the bounce is sent to the listname-bounces
address. The domain in the from/sender of the reply is the host_name
attribute of the list which should not be 'localhost'

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
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From kathyg at anitaborg.org  Thu Jan 10 02:22:18 2008
From: kathyg at anitaborg.org (Kathy Gee)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 18:22:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation Bit Problem
Message-ID: <5B94DD3326FC4541BBE0E4777EFF32CD05F2E4D8@VS7.EXCHPROD.USA.NET>

Help, someone?

 

When the moderation bit for a member is turned on, that member gets an
error message when trying to post a message.  The error message says
"Your message could not be processed because of an internal error
(software problem).  We are very sorry.  The system administrator has
been notified of the problem."  I'm sure this message is pretty generic
therefore not much help.  The message is no where to be found in any log
that I can see and it never gets to the "tend to pending moderator
requests" mode.

 

Anyway, this happened after our system got upgraded from Fedora Core 3
to 7.  The Mailman version is 2.1.4.  Is there something I may have
missed in the upgrade that would cause Mailman's moderation bit to act
up?  I've only been introduced to Mailman as the administrator since
July last year.  So, bear with me my ignorance on this subject.

 

Thanks,

Kathy

 

 


From gmillerd at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 02:45:09 2008
From: gmillerd at gmail.com (Gabriel Millerd)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 19:45:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] howto cancell a message
In-Reply-To: <47855B17.1020500@nerds.net>
References: <20080109225200.y83wq5dr4kk4gwog@mail.hangar.org>
	<47855B17.1020500@nerds.net>
Message-ID: <8f551a650801091745yff86180mf94fdbb6ac337d43@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 9, 2008 5:39 PM, Jonathan Dill <jonathan at nerds.net> wrote:

> I have a client with a ~50,000 subscriber newsletter that goes out once
> a week, and they always send it out to an internal test list first so
> they can check for spelling errors or anything else that might be
> embarrassing before the message goes out.  Even so, I did have to abort
>

This workflow is just priceless for such transmissions. I setting up a
CGI to 'vote allow/decline' messages, as sadly it takes just one
person to allow a message through and with work environments as they
tend to be the velocity of emails and the added mailing list websites
and google crawling can make these problems massive.

-- 
Gabriel Millerd

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Jan 10 06:52:55 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 23:52:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Lists
In-Reply-To: <20080109233901.ACEE91E4006@bag.python.org>
References: <20080108005741.710AC1E4004@bag.python.org>
	<PC17602008010717175803437264c1f1@msapiro>
	<20080108234844.1379A1E4017@bag.python.org>
	<4784BB6D.4090406@Media-Brokers.com>
	<20080109233901.ACEE91E4006@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <47846B52-ED33-4BC9-816A-0E9AA812E8FC@shub-internet.org>

Check the archives. HTML gets flattened to plain text and any fancy  
HTML stuff you've got goes away.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-Internet.org>

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 9, 2008, at 5:34 PM, Dennis Putnam <dap1 at bellsouth.net> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> At 07:17 AM 1/9/2008, you wrote:
>
> ???
>
> Are you mixing in your replies with the quoted text here without
> distinuguishing the quoted text? That is VERY confusing, and will get
> your posts bit-canned by a lot of people, just fyi...
>
>
> That's odd. The text appears quoted when I am creating the reply. It
> must somehow be stripped when sent. I'll have to see what is going on.
> Thanks for the heads up and my apologies to the list.
>
>
>
>
> - --
>
> Best regards,
>
> Charles Marcus
> I.T. Director
> Media Brokers International
> 678.514.6200 x224
> 678.514.6299 fax
>
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> o+D1VssS90ad2eqjwe+kO/E=
> =3SIp
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brad%40shub-internet.org
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From ftg at roadrunner.com  Thu Jan 10 19:19:12 2008
From: ftg at roadrunner.com (Frank Griffin)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:19:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some detail questions about migrating lists
Message-ID: <478661A0.7060804@roadrunner.com>

Hi all,

I need to migrate lists from an *old* Slackware system running MM 2.0
(0x200000f0) to a new system where MM is installed via RPM (2.1.9).

I've read the posts linked to by the FAQ, and the basic procedure is to
copy the data, lists, and archives directories and run withlist
fix_url.  But I have a couple of minor questions:

According to the UPGRADE document, file formats have changed as have
actual files (some new, some gone).  What triggers the 2.1 version to do
the necessary conversions ?  Is it just finding files of the old version
and recognizing them as such ?  Does the last_mailman_version in the
data directory trigger this ?

There are various minor concerns, such as file permissions, aliases,
redoing public archive symlinks, and so forth.  This made me wonder if
it would be easier/possible to run bin/newlist for each existing 2.0
list in the 2.1.9 system, and *then* bring over the data, lists, and
archives/private directories.  Advisable ?

TIA

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan 10 20:38:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:38:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail Processing Problem?
In-Reply-To: <20080110003859.96F5C1E400E@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008011011380804216ce6f00d@msapiro>

Dennis Putnam wrote:
>
>I'll give that a try. In the mean time maybe it is not what I thought
>based on your explanation. The specific error from my ISP complains
>about a missing DNS entry for RCPT TO. How do I set mailman to place
>the correct RCPT TO information in the headers for my SMTP server. I
>tried setting:
>
>DEFAULT_REPLY_GOES_TO_LIST = 2
>REPLY_TO_ADDRESS = '<acceptable host/domain>'
>
>It seems that is not what it is using for the RCPT TO.


RCPT TO is the SMTP command for specifying the recipient(s) of the
message. These will be the addresses of the list members or the
owner/moderator or other recipient of a Mailman generated notice.

I do not thing that is what the ISP's MTA is complaining about. I thing
it returns whatever reject status it is returning in response to a
RCPT TO command, but that doesn't mean it is complaining about the
recipient address.

I believe what it doesn't like is the MAIL FROM address - i.e. the
listname-bounces at host_name address. Is your list's host_name in DNS?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan 10 20:56:52 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:56:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation Bit Problem
In-Reply-To: <5B94DD3326FC4541BBE0E4777EFF32CD05F2E4D8@VS7.EXCHPROD.USA.NET>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801101156520421f1957039@msapiro>

Kathy Gee wrote:
>
>When the moderation bit for a member is turned on, that member gets an
>error message when trying to post a message.  The error message says
>"Your message could not be processed because of an internal error
>(software problem).  We are very sorry.  The system administrator has
>been notified of the problem."  I'm sure this message is pretty generic
>therefore not much help.  The message is no where to be found in any log
>that I can see and it never gets to the "tend to pending moderator
>requests" mode.


First thing to check is the list's Privacy options...->Sender filters
member_moderation_action and member_moderation_notice.

The only way I know that Mailman could be doing this is if that message
is set as member_moderation_notice, and member_moderation_action is
set to Reject.

Assuming that is not the reason, and that posts from unmoderated
members are processed normally, what are the full headers of this
message? Is there anything in Mailman's error log or othher logs with
a timestamp within a second or so of when this message is sent?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan 10 21:42:35 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:42:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some detail questions about migrating lists
In-Reply-To: <478661A0.7060804@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080110124235004663ed0351@msapiro>

Frank Griffin wrote:
>
>According to the UPGRADE document, file formats have changed as have
>actual files (some new, some gone).  What triggers the 2.1 version to do
>the necessary conversions ?  Is it just finding files of the old version
>and recognizing them as such ?


Yes, as far as the old config.db to new config.pck conversion is
concerned.

As far as other files such as the pending database and qfiles are
concerned, these will be converted by bin/update if you are upgrading
an installation, but if you are simply moving lists from an old to a
new installation, it is best to deal with pending requests and queued
messages on the old system and blow off anything that is left. There
is no automated way of converting these in the new installation.


>Does the last_mailman_version in the
>data directory trigger this ?


No. last_mailman_version tells bin/update whether it needs to do
anything. This comes into play when installing an upgrade, but when
moving an old list's config.(db|pck) into an existing installation, it
is the DATA_FILE_VERSION in the config file itself that triggers the
update.


>There are various minor concerns, such as file permissions, aliases,
>redoing public archive symlinks, and so forth.  This made me wonder if
>it would be easier/possible to run bin/newlist for each existing 2.0
>list in the 2.1.9 system, and *then* bring over the data, lists, and
>archives/private directories.  Advisable ?


No. This is absolutely wrong. If you create the list on the new system
first, Mailman will always see that list's config.pck and will never
look at the config.db that you move over.

My advice is:

Do not create the lists on the new host.

Do not move anything from the data/ directory.

Move only the config.db from the lists/<listname>/ directories.

Move the archives/private/ tree.

Run bin/list_lists which will instantiate every list and convert every
old config.db to a new config.pck.

Run bin/genaliases to create/update aliases.

After conversion, remove the config.db files as if you don't, a
possible future problem in reading the config.pck and config.pck.last
files could cause Mailman to fall back to the then outdated config.db.

Public archive symlinks will be created automatically the first time a
list's configuration is saved. The bin/list_lists accessing and
converting of the config.db files won't do this, but a list post or
accessing the admin web interface for a list will.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan 10 22:22:37 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:22:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UTF-8 question
In-Reply-To: <20080109144521.GA9962@vihreat.fi>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801101322370187adddaf40@msapiro>

Eva Isaksson wrote:
>
>The changes made for utf-8 included:
>- changing the template files and the Finnish translation file
>into utf-8 with iconv.
>- fixing the mm_cfg.py by making DEFAULT_CHARSET = 'UTF-8'
>and copying the relevant litany of LC_DESCRIPTIONS from
>Defaults.py into mm_cfg.py and setting Finnish into utf-8.


You really only needed to copy the one add_language() that you changed
(and also leave off the _() around the name) as in

add_language('fi', 'Finnish', 'utf-8')

>Now, the problem that keeps puzzling me:
>
>1. Before the change, mails with charset=iso-8859-1 and
>charset=utf-8 were being distributed with the charset
>untouched. I figured out as this is how it should be - right?


Yes, but not necessarily in all cases.


>2. As our server hosts a lot of lists (almost 400 of them)
>I decided to try utf-8 out on a smaller scale first, on an 
>Ubuntu server, running only a couple of lists with its standard 
>mailman package, version 2.1.5. The utf-8 change was a success. 
>The webpages and archive were all okay, and the charset of 
>mails was untouched too.
>
>3. As things looked promising, I decided to proceed with our
>real list server. The result: 
>Web pages, archive, all okay, now in utf-8.
>Mails... all of them in utf-8. And I mean ALL mails.
>
>My question: was this to be expected? Is everything meant
>to be in utf-8 from now on, including the forcing of
>charset=utf-8 into all list mail headers? And why didn't this 
>happen neither with the iso-8859-1 settings, nor with the
>Ubuntu server?


I'm not certain about all of this, but there are places including
Scrubber (removing attachments and flattening a message to plain text)
and adding msg_header and msg_footer where the character set of a
message can be coerced.

I did do a very simple test, and I don't see the problem.

Can you post an example of a test message as sent to a list and the
corresponding message as received from the list with the character set
coerced to UTF-8?


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Thu Jan 10 23:11:29 2008
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:11:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail Processing Problem?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008011011380804216ce6f00d@msapiro>
References: <20080110003859.96F5C1E400E@bag.python.org>
	<PC17602008011011380804216ce6f00d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080110221159.7FFBB1E4022@bag.python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Thanks for the reply.

No. I do not have a static IP or a registered domain, which is why all
mail from this server has to go through my ISP's server. However,
non-mailman mail is sent just fine. If it is indeed the "MAIL FROM"
then why would my changes in mm_cfg.py, not have fixed it? On the
other hand, why would it complain about 'RCPT TO' rather then 'MAIL
FROM'?

At 02:38 PM 1/10/2008, you wrote:

RCPT TO is the SMTP command for specifying the recipient(s) of the
message. These will be the addresses of the list members or the
owner/moderator or other recipient of a Mailman generated notice.

I do not thing that is what the ISP's MTA is complaining about. I
thing
it returns whatever reject status it is returning in response to a
RCPT TO command, but that doesn't mean it is complaining about the
recipient address.

I believe what it doesn't like is the MAIL FROM address - i.e. the
listname-bounces at host_name address. Is your list's host_name in DNS?

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From javiabd at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 10 23:49:17 2008
From: javiabd at yahoo.com (Abdul Javid)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:49:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman logs - how to check if all members recieved
	mail
Message-ID: <861919.64421.qm@web63705.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Hi
  Is there a way to check if the mail has be sent to all members in mailing list
   
  thanks in advance for your replies 
   
  Abdul 

       
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jan 11 00:24:30 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:24:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail Processing Problem?
In-Reply-To: <20080110221159.7FFBB1E4022@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602008011015243006569de0c1ce@msapiro>

Dennis Putnam wrote:
>
>No. I do not have a static IP or a registered domain, which is why all
>mail from this server has to go through my ISP's server. However,
>non-mailman mail is sent just fine. If it is indeed the "MAIL FROM"
>then why would my changes in mm_cfg.py, not have fixed it? On the
>other hand, why would it complain about 'RCPT TO' rather then 'MAIL
>FROM'?


The changes you made in mm_cfg.py

DEFAULT_REPLY_GOES_TO_LIST = 2
REPLY_TO_ADDRESS = '<acceptable host/domain>'

have nothing to do with this issue. First, they only set defaults for
new lists. They have no effect on existing lists. Second, they only
have to do with a Reply-To: header in outgiong list posts which has
absolutely nothing to do with your problem.


>On the
>other hand, why would it complain about 'RCPT TO' rather then 'MAIL
>FROM'?


Lots of reasons. It could be a relaying issue which can't be detected
until the MTA knows the destination, or it could just be that the MTA
is configured to do the FROM domain check at RCPT time in the SMTP
transaction.

What is the exact reject response from the MTA?

What is the difference between 'non-Mailman' mail that works and
Mailman mail that doesn't. Does the non-Mailman mail come from a
different envelope from domain? Does non-Mailman mail use SMTP-AUTH to
authenticate to the ISP?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From eva at vihrealiitto.fi  Fri Jan 11 00:35:38 2008
From: eva at vihrealiitto.fi (Eva Isaksson)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 01:35:38 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UTF-8 question
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200801101322370187adddaf40@msapiro>
References: <20080109144521.GA9962@vihreat.fi>
	<PC1760200801101322370187adddaf40@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080110233538.GA26740@vihreat.fi>

Mark Sapiro:
> I'm not certain about all of this, but there are places including
> Scrubber (removing attachments and flattening a message to plain text)
> and adding msg_header and msg_footer where the character set of a
> message can be coerced.

Yes, this seems to be the case. Our lists typically have umlaut
characters in their descriptions. Here's an example:

List-Id: =?utf-8?q?Vihreiden_vaikuttajien_sis=C3=A4inen_keskustelulista?=

Using a test list, I was able to find out that a list that has
only us-ascii in its headers and msg_footer will keep the original
charset untouched. As soon as any of those has any utf-8 stuff
in it, it causes a forced charset=utf-8.

I had spent more than a week trying to figure this out, 
so it's good to find out why this happens.

- Eva
-- 
 Eva Isaksson * eva at vihreat.fi * Eva.Isaksson at Helsinki.Fi
 http://www.helsinki.fi/~eisaksso/

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jan 11 00:40:11 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:40:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman logs - how to check if all members
	recievedmail
In-Reply-To: <861919.64421.qm@web63705.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801101540110609aba9b0cc@msapiro>

Abdul Javid wrote:

>  Is there a way to check if the mail has be sent to all members in mailing list


First, figure out how many recipients there should be. Get the possible
recipients with

  bin/list_members --regular --nomail=enabled listname | wc -l

Then figure out how many of those won't receive this post - the poster
if the poster has "Receive your own posts to the list?" set to No and
any list members directly addressed in To: or Cc: that have "Avoid
duplicate copies of messages?" set to Yes - and subtract from the
possible recipients.

Then go to Mailman's smtp log and find the message like:

Jan 10 13:03:41 2008 (368) <message-id> smtp to listname for nnn
recips, completed in t.ttt seconds

and verify that nnn is the expected number.

You can also check Mailman's smtp-failure and bounce logs for failed
deliveries and bounces reported to Mailman.

Beyond that, you have to ask the outgoing MTA.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jan 11 05:46:00 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:46:00 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow or Missed mails
In-Reply-To: <626426.86501.qm@web63707.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <626426.86501.qm@web63707.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06240805c3aca4bf2132@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/9/08, Abdul Javid wrote:

>  I noticed the mail processing is slow and sometimes they are notprocessed
>  at all

Search the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> for words like 
"performance" and "troubleshoot".

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jan 11 05:47:01 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:47:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spamassassin and mailman
In-Reply-To: <4784EABC.8040907@enabled.com>
References: <4784EABC.8040907@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <p06240806c3aca52338b6@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/9/08, Noah wrote:

>  many of our list moderators are receiving quite a bit of moderated
>  messages that is spam.  Sometimes 20 to 40 or even more times a day.  I
>  am wondering if there is a way to send all list mail through SA rules
>  and then trash the mail that is a specific score so it never even gets
>  moderated.  Any clues on how to accomplish this?

This kind of stuff needs to be done in the MTA, not Mailman.

That said, search the FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> for "spam".

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jan 11 05:48:49 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:48:49 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail Processing Problem?
In-Reply-To: <20080110003859.96F5C1E400E@bag.python.org>
References: <20080109025504.8FE501E4017@bag.python.org>
	<PC17602008010819365603122eb12fd0@msapiro>
	<20080110003859.96F5C1E400E@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p06240807c3aca5864fdc@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/9/08, Dennis Putnam wrote:

>  It seems that is not what it is using for the RCPT TO.

RCPT TO is a recipient address.  Look through the list of subscribers 
for your list and make sure that they are all correctly formed and 
valid domains.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From tony.molloy at ul.ie  Fri Jan 11 10:52:58 2008
From: tony.molloy at ul.ie (Tony Molloy)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:52:58 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Problem, mistyped address
Message-ID: <200801110952.58888.tony.molloy@ul.ie>



Hi,

I've been using mailman now for several years and have migrated my lists from 
Redhat-9 to Centos-4 and Centos-5. They all seem to be working OK

I'm seeing the following errors in my mailman logs


smtp log

 Jan 11 08:00:01 2008 (13841) 
<mailman.0.1200038401.5565.gsd at mail.csidmzs.ul.ie> smtp to gsd for 1 recips, 
completed in 0.029 seconds


smtp-failure log

Jan 11 08:00:01 2008 (13841) SMTP session failure: 553, 5.1.8 
<gsd-bounces+gsd-owner=mail.csidmzs.ul.ie at mail.csidmzs.ul.ie>... Domain of 
sender address gsd-bounces+gsd-owner=mail.csidmzs.ul.ie at mail.csidmzs.ul.ie 
does not exist, msgid: <mailman.0.1200038401.5565.gsd at mail.csidmzs.ul.ie>

Now I know the problem mail.csidmzs.ul.ie is incorrect. It should be 
mail.csisdmz.ul.ie. I presume during one of the migrations I must have 
mistyped something. But does anybody have any idea of where mailman is 
picking up the mistyped address and how can I sort it out.

Regards,

Tony

From egidijus.serplis at aideta.lt  Fri Jan 11 12:07:00 2008
From: egidijus.serplis at aideta.lt (Egidijus Serplis)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:07:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] deny members posts
Message-ID: <02a901c85442$16e37800$44aa6800$@serplis@aideta.lt>

Hi,

 

Maybe anyone can explain to me how to configure mailman, that list members
can't post to this list. And enable non-members post to this list. In other
words - i want members of list only get messages, but not post. Thanks for
answers. I'm using mailman 2.1.8-0.FC4.1

 

Egidijus


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jan 11 17:34:32 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:34:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Problem, mistyped address
In-Reply-To: <200801110952.58888.tony.molloy@ul.ie>
References: <200801110952.58888.tony.molloy@ul.ie>
Message-ID: <p06240802c3ad4aed001c@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/11/08, Tony Molloy wrote:

>  Now I know the problem mail.csidmzs.ul.ie is incorrect. It should be
>  mail.csisdmz.ul.ie. I presume during one of the migrations I must have
>  mistyped something. But does anybody have any idea of where mailman is
>  picking up the mistyped address and how can I sort it out.

Why not just go to the membership page and search for the incorrect 
domain name?  That should pull up the member's address information, 
which you can then correct.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jan 11 17:36:14 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:36:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] deny members posts
In-Reply-To: <02a901c85442$16e37800$44aa6800$@serplis@aideta.lt>
References: <02a901c85442$16e37800$44aa6800$@serplis@aideta.lt>
Message-ID: <p06240803c3ad4b6d1ded@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/11/08, Egidijus Serplis wrote:

>  Maybe anyone can explain to me how to configure mailman, that list members
>  can't post to this list. And enable non-members post to this list. In other
>  words - i want members of list only get messages, but not post. Thanks for
>  answers. I'm using mailman 2.1.8-0.FC4.1

Search the FAQ Wizard for "announce".

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jan 11 17:55:02 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:55:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Problem, mistyped address
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c3ad4aed001c@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801110855020781adddb16f@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>On 1/11/08, Tony Molloy wrote:
>
>>  Now I know the problem mail.csidmzs.ul.ie is incorrect. It should be
>>  mail.csisdmz.ul.ie. I presume during one of the migrations I must have
>>  mistyped something. But does anybody have any idea of where mailman is
>>  picking up the mistyped address and how can I sort it out.
>
>Why not just go to the membership page and search for the incorrect 
>domain name?  That should pull up the member's address information, 
>which you can then correct.


It's not a member address. It is the list domain which comes from the
list's host_name attribute on the General Options page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kathyg at anitaborg.org  Fri Jan 11 18:11:33 2008
From: kathyg at anitaborg.org (Kathy Gee)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:11:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation Bit Problem
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200801101156520421f1957039@msapiro>
References: <5B94DD3326FC4541BBE0E4777EFF32CD05F2E4D8@VS7.EXCHPROD.USA.NET>
	<PC1760200801101156520421f1957039@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5B94DD3326FC4541BBE0E4777EFF32CD05FE6EF0@VS7.EXCHPROD.USA.NET>





Under Privacy options...->Sender filters member_moderation_notice is
blank and member_moderation_action is set to Hold.

Here is what I have from mailman's error log for a failed attempt (sent
from a moderated member):

Jan 11 08:39:40 2008 admin(28403):
/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4-mills1/Mailman/Utils.py:469:
DeprecationWarning: raising a string exception is deprecated
  raise quickexit
Jan 11 08:39:54 2008 (15586) Uncaught runner exception: unbound method
reason_notice() must be called with ModeratedMemberPost instance as
first argument (got nothing instead)
Jan 11 08:39:54 2008 (15586) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4-mills1/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line
111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4-mills1/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line
169, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File
"/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4-mills1/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line
130, in _dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File
"/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4-mills1/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line
153, in _dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4-mills1/Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py",
line 80, in process
    ModeratedMemberPost)
  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4-mills1/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line
223, in hold_for_approval
    reason = Utils.wrap(exc.reason_notice())
TypeError: unbound method reason_notice() must be called with
ModeratedMemberPost instance as first argument (got nothing instead)

Jan 11 08:39:54 2008 (15586) SHUNTING:
1200069594.212882+ef9a62781ca483bd4077e680c970bd976ff74345
Jan 11 08:40:11 2008 admin(28515):
/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4-mills1/Mailman/Utils.py:469:
DeprecationWarning: raising a string exception is deprecated
  raise quickexit
Jan 11 08:40:33 2008 admin(28773):
/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4-mills1/Mailman/Utils.py:469:
DeprecationWarning: raising a string exception is deprecated
  raise quickexit
admin(28773): /usr/local/mailman-2.1.4-mills1/Mailman/MailList.py:862:
DeprecationWarning: raising a string exception is deprecated
  raise Errors.MMSubscribeNeedsConfirmation

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:57 AM
To: Kathy Gee; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Moderation Bit Problem

Kathy Gee wrote:
>
>When the moderation bit for a member is turned on, that member gets an
>error message when trying to post a message.  The error message says
>"Your message could not be processed because of an internal error
>(software problem).  We are very sorry.  The system administrator has
>been notified of the problem."  I'm sure this message is pretty generic
>therefore not much help.  The message is no where to be found in any
log
>that I can see and it never gets to the "tend to pending moderator
>requests" mode.


First thing to check is the list's Privacy options...->Sender filters
member_moderation_action and member_moderation_notice.

The only way I know that Mailman could be doing this is if that message
is set as member_moderation_notice, and member_moderation_action is
set to Reject.

Assuming that is not the reason, and that posts from unmoderated
members are processed normally, what are the full headers of this
message? Is there anything in Mailman's error log or othher logs with
a timestamp within a second or so of when this message is sent?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jan 11 19:43:00 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:43:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] deny members posts
In-Reply-To: <p06240803c3ad4b6d1ded@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801111043000250e3524f1a@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>On 1/11/08, Egidijus Serplis wrote:
>
>>  Maybe anyone can explain to me how to configure mailman, that list members
>>  can't post to this list. And enable non-members post to this list. In other
>>  words - i want members of list only get messages, but not post. Thanks for
>>  answers. I'm using mailman 2.1.8-0.FC4.1
>
>Search the FAQ Wizard for "announce".


This will cover the 'members can't post' side.

For the non-members can post side, set generic_nonmember_action to
Accept.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jan 11 20:09:46 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:09:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation Bit Problem
In-Reply-To: <5B94DD3326FC4541BBE0E4777EFF32CD05FE6EF0@VS7.EXCHPROD.USA.NET>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801111109460796dab2dfea@msapiro>

Kathy Gee wrote:
>
>Here is what I have from mailman's error log for a failed attempt (sent
>from a moderated member):
>
>Jan 11 08:39:40 2008 admin(28403):
>/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4-mills1/Mailman/Utils.py:469:
>DeprecationWarning: raising a string exception is deprecated
>  raise quickexit


The above is not part of the problem. It is a result of using Mailman
earlier than 2.1.10 with Python 2.5.x


>Jan 11 08:39:54 2008 (15586) Uncaught runner exception: unbound method
>reason_notice() must be called with ModeratedMemberPost instance as
>first argument (got nothing instead)
>Jan 11 08:39:54 2008 (15586) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4-mills1/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line
>111, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4-mills1/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line
>169, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File
>"/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4-mills1/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line
>130, in _dispose
>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>  File
>"/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4-mills1/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line
>153, in _dopipeline
>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4-mills1/Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py",
>line 80, in process
>    ModeratedMemberPost)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4-mills1/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line
>223, in hold_for_approval
>    reason = Utils.wrap(exc.reason_notice())
>TypeError: unbound method reason_notice() must be called with
>ModeratedMemberPost instance as first argument (got nothing instead)


Your Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py module is modified from the 2.1.4 base.
The offending line is line 212 in the base, not 223.

There is something wrong with this module or perhaps there is some
other incompatiblity between Mailman 2.1.4 and Python 2.5.x. Without
seeing exactly what has been changed in Hold.py, I can't say for sure.

I recommend upgrading Mailman as a start.


>Jan 11 08:39:54 2008 (15586) SHUNTING:
>1200069594.212882+ef9a62781ca483bd4077e680c970bd976ff74345
>Jan 11 08:40:11 2008 admin(28515):
>/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4-mills1/Mailman/Utils.py:469:
>DeprecationWarning: raising a string exception is deprecated
>  raise quickexit
>Jan 11 08:40:33 2008 admin(28773):
>/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4-mills1/Mailman/Utils.py:469:
>DeprecationWarning: raising a string exception is deprecated
>  raise quickexit
>admin(28773): /usr/local/mailman-2.1.4-mills1/Mailman/MailList.py:862:
>DeprecationWarning: raising a string exception is deprecated
>  raise Errors.MMSubscribeNeedsConfirmation


The above DeprecationWarnings are also not the cause of the problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Jan 11 22:56:49 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 06:56:49 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] deny members posts
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200801111043000250e3524f1a@msapiro>
References: <p06240803c3ad4b6d1ded@[192.168.1.101]>
	<PC1760200801111043000250e3524f1a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87abncgh5q.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:
 > Brad Knowles wrote:
 > 
 > >On 1/11/08, Egidijus Serplis wrote:
 > >
 > >>  Maybe anyone can explain to me how to configure mailman, that list members
 > >>  can't post to this list. And enable non-members post to this list. In other
 > >>  words - i want members of list only get messages, but not post. Thanks for
 > >>  answers. I'm using mailman 2.1.8-0.FC4.1
 > >
 > >Search the FAQ Wizard for "announce".
 > 
 > 
 > This will cover the 'members can't post' side.
 > 
 > For the non-members can post side, set generic_nonmember_action to
 > Accept.

He probably also wants to filter the nonmembers who can post, though!


From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Fri Jan 11 23:53:15 2008
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:53:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail Processing Problem?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008011015243006569de0c1ce@msapiro>
References: <20080110221159.7FFBB1E4022@bag.python.org>
	<PC17602008011015243006569de0c1ce@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20080111225350.6EB771E400C@bag.python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Thanks for the reply.

I'll remove those changes.

The exact response is:

550 [PERMFAIL] bellsouth.net requires valid sender domain (in reply to
RCPT TO command))

I should have paid more attention, sorry. Is not the RCPT TO command
itself but the reply to it and I believe it is referring to my
mailman/SMTP server.

I  can't tell you the specific difference because there are no useful
messages (just a 250 sent message) when it is successful. My main
point was that a message formed by the 'mail' command, on the same
server, works so it seems a mailman config issue. I don't think
SMTP-AUTH matters since both go through the same local 'SMTP'  server
to the same ISP mail server. Right? Isn't the mechanism 'sendmail' in
both cases to my SMTP server? Or is 'mailman' trying to talk directly
to my ISP's mail server? I don't recall doing anything special with
mailman when it was working for my ISP's mail server. I may have done
something to 'postfix' specifically for mailman but I don't recall
what.

At 06:24 PM 1/10/2008, you wrote:


The changes you made in mm_cfg.py

DEFAULT_REPLY_GOES_TO_LIST = 2
REPLY_TO_ADDRESS = '<acceptable host/domain>'

have nothing to do with this issue. First, they only set defaults for
new lists. They have no effect on existing lists. Second, they only
have to do with a Reply-To: header in outgiong list posts which has
absolutely nothing to do with your problem.


 >On the
 >other hand, why would it complain about 'RCPT TO' rather then 'MAIL
 >FROM'?


Lots of reasons. It could be a relaying issue which can't be detected
until the MTA knows the destination, or it could just be that the MTA
is configured to do the FROM domain check at RCPT time in the SMTP
transaction.

What is the exact reject response from the MTA?

What is the difference between 'non-Mailman' mail that works and
Mailman mail that doesn't. Does the non-Mailman mail come from a
different envelope from domain? Does non-Mailman mail use SMTP-AUTH to
authenticate to the ISP?

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
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From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jan 12 00:36:29 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 15:36:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail Processing Problem?
In-Reply-To: <20080111225350.6EB771E400C@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020080111153629031275fa4d35@msapiro>

Dennis Putnam wrote:
>550 [PERMFAIL] bellsouth.net requires valid sender domain (in reply to
>RCPT TO command))
>
>I should have paid more attention, sorry. Is not the RCPT TO command
>itself but the reply to it and I believe it is referring to my
>mailman/SMTP server.


I think it is refering to the domain of the 'sender' of the mail which
is the list's host_name attribute.


>I  can't tell you the specific difference because there are no useful
>messages (just a 250 sent message) when it is successful.


And what are the other things in your MTA's log entries like the from
and to addresses. The ISP is complaining about the domain of the from
address that you would see in your MTAs logs.


>My main
>point was that a message formed by the 'mail' command, on the same
>server, works so it seems a mailman config issue. I don't think
>SMTP-AUTH matters since both go through the same local 'SMTP'  server
>to the same ISP mail server. Right?


Yes, based on your description, that's right.


>Isn't the mechanism 'sendmail' in
>both cases to my SMTP server? Or is 'mailman' trying to talk directly
>to my ISP's mail server?


Unless you changed SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT (putting them in mm_cfg.py)
Mailman is sending to the MTA that it talks to on port 25 at
'localhost'.


>I don't recall doing anything special with
>mailman when it was working for my ISP's mail server. I may have done
>something to 'postfix' specifically for mailman but I don't recall
>what.


So look in your local maillog for the postfix entries for successful
and unsuccessful posts. The difference will be in the domain of the
'from' address in the log entries.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From knabe at 4j.lane.edu  Sat Jan 12 01:48:41 2008
From: knabe at 4j.lane.edu (Troy Knabe)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:48:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] multiple hosts mounting mailman nfs
In-Reply-To: <47693920.50103@ualberta.ca>
References: <5B2F2AB3-FC87-422D-86FF-0950B172FFA6@4j.lane.edu>
	<47693920.50103@ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <AAD0AC6A-8049-4AB4-BB3A-49419A2F8BE1@4j.lane.edu>


On Dec 19, 2007, at 7:30 AM, Dennis Black wrote:

> Troy Knabe wrote:
>> I have two smtp servers that we use dns round robin for load
>> balancing.  I can run it one server at a time, but I am running into
>> some pid lock file issues when I try to run them simultaneously.
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Troy
>>
>>
> Troy,
> My configuration:
>
> A carp machine answers "mailman.srv.ualberta.ca" and alternates  
> inbound
> messages
> to two machines behind the carp machine, "mailman1" and "mailman2",
> NFS-mounted to a third machine, "mailmandb".
>
> Mailman 2.1.9 and Postfix are installed on all three.
>
> Beginning at about line 119, change /usr/local/bin/mailmanctl, so it  
> reads:
>
> # Locking contantsa
> fname = socket.gethostname()
> partz = fname.split('.')
> hostnamez = partz.pop(0)
> lyst = ['master-qrunner', hostnamez]
> osmyname = "-".join(lyst)
> LOCKFILE = os.path.join(mm_cfg.LOCK_DIR, osmyname)
> # Since we wake up once per day and refresh the lock, the  
> LOCK_LIFETIME
>
> Mount /usr/local/mailman/locks on NFS.
>
> This creates lockfiles named by hosts:
>
> /usr/local/mailman/locks
>
> -rw-rw-r--  2 mailman  mailman  79 Dec 19 17:29 master-qrunner- 
> mailman1
> -rw-rw-r--  2 mailman  mailman  79 Dec 19 17:29
> master-qrunner-mailman1.mailman1.srv.ualberta.ca.13791
> -rw-rw-r--  2 mailman  mailman  78 Dec 19 15:45 master-qrunner- 
> mailman2
> -rw-rw-r--  2 mailman  mailman  78 Dec 19 15:45
> master-qrunner-mailman2.mailman2.srv.ualberta.ca.5476
> -rw-rw-r--  2 mailman  mailman  80 Dec 20 13:35 master-qrunner- 
> mailmandb
> -rw-rw-r--  2 mailman  mailman  80 Dec 20 13:35
> master-qrunner-mailmandb.mailmandb.srv.ualberta.ca.7897
>
> As Brad points out, each of the two machines has its own queue, but  
> the
> /lists and /archives
> are common NFS.
>
> -- 
> Dennis Black
> System Admin
> Academic Information and Communication Technologies (AICT)
> (780-)492-9329
> This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to which
> it is addressed, and may contain confidential, personal, and/or
> privileged information. Please contact us immediately if you are not
> the intended recipient of this communication. If you are not the
> intended recipient of this communication, do not copy, distribute,
> or take action on it. Any communication received in error, or
> subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/knabe%404j.lane.edu
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


Is it necessary to add the crontab to both servers?  It seems that on  
the secondary server (the one I didn't actually run "configure" on)  
messages are stuck in the mailq until I restart mailman.

-Troy




From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Sat Jan 12 17:40:17 2008
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 11:40:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail Processing Problem?
Message-ID: <20080112164038.A0CBB1E4020@bag.python.org>

Thanks for the reply. I have a guess as to what is wrong but I don't 
know how to fix it in mailman. Here are the syslog entries for a 
non-mailman email:

Jan 12 10:55:10 dap002 postfix/qmgr[2345]: 47CD185063: 
from=<dap at home.bellsouth.net>, size=435, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Jan 12 10:55:16 dap002 postfix/smtp[21572]: 47CD185063: 
to=<dap1 at bellsouth.net>, relay=mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25, 
delay=5.8, delays=0.05/0.02/5.5/0.28, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 ok 
; id=20080112155515H0100n202se)
Jan 12 10:55:16 dap002 postfix/qmgr[2345]: 47CD185063: removed

Note the from hostname is 'home.bellsouth.net'. Now the mailman entries:

Jan 12 10:56:12 dap002 postfix/qmgr[2345]: D4F7D85061: 
from=<cufsalumni-bounces at dap002.bellsouth.net>, size=10015, nrcpt=1 
(queue active)
Jan 12 10:56:12 dap002 postfix/smtpd[21582]: disconnect from dap002[127.0.0.1]
Jan 12 10:56:16 dap002 postfix/smtp[21572]: D4F7D85061: 
to=<dap1 at bellsouth.net>, relay=mail.bellsouth.net[207.115.11.17]:25, 
delay=3.5, delays=0.03/0.01/3.3/0.19, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host 
mail.bellsouth.net[207.115.11.17] said: 550 [PERMFAIL] bellsouth.net 
requires valid sender domain (in reply to RCPT TO command))

Here the from hostname is 'dap002.bellsouth.net' instead of 
'home.bellsouth.net', that is not to say I know this is the problem 
but its all I can see as different. Obviously mailman is somehow 
overriding the normal from hostname and building its own. The name 
'dap002' is the LAN hostname but I cannot use that as the from 
address to my ISP. My ISP has a special hostname for situations like 
this that will properly resolve via DNS although it is a dummy name 
for all DHCP assigned IPs. My mm_cfg.py has these 2 lines referring 
to the hostname but obviously they are not what is being used in this case:

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'home.bellsouth.net'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'home.bellsouth.net'



From felipe at neuwald.biz  Sat Jan 12 19:10:36 2008
From: felipe at neuwald.biz (Felipe Neuwald)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:10:36 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email classification
Message-ID: <4789029C.9070502@neuwald.biz>

Hi,

I'm looking for some way that I can classify emails that goes to one 
mail list.

I'm thinking, if some user send one email to the mail list, then the 
mail server reply one email to the user with one web page addres, and 
then, the user classify the email (like office, home, study, etc) and 
before the classification, the email is sent to the mail list. There is 
some way of email classification like these? Or other ways of email 
classification?

Thanks,

Felipe Neuwald.



From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Jan 12 23:58:09 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:58:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail Processing Problem?
In-Reply-To: <20080112164038.A0CBB1E4020@bag.python.org>
References: <20080112164038.A0CBB1E4020@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3aef4b5cbe4@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/12/08, Dennis Putnam wrote:

>  Thanks for the reply. I have a guess as to what is wrong but I don't
>  know how to fix it in mailman. Here are the syslog entries for a
>  non-mailman email:
>
>  Jan 12 10:55:10 dap002 postfix/qmgr[2345]: 47CD185063:
>  from=<dap at home.bellsouth.net>, size=435, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>  Jan 12 10:55:16 dap002 postfix/smtp[21572]: 47CD185063:
>  to=<dap1 at bellsouth.net>, relay=mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25,
>  delay=5.8, delays=0.05/0.02/5.5/0.28, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 ok
>  ; id=20080112155515H0100n202se)
>  Jan 12 10:55:16 dap002 postfix/qmgr[2345]: 47CD185063: removed
>
>  Note the from hostname is 'home.bellsouth.net'. Now the mailman entries:

Clearly, the hostname is "dap002" in some domain, because that's the 
name that is showing up in the "hostnme" field in the syslog file.

>  Jan 12 10:56:12 dap002 postfix/qmgr[2345]: D4F7D85061:
>  from=<cufsalumni-bounces at dap002.bellsouth.net>, size=10015, nrcpt=1
>  (queue active)
>  Jan 12 10:56:12 dap002 postfix/smtpd[21582]: disconnect from 
>dap002[127.0.0.1]
>  Jan 12 10:56:16 dap002 postfix/smtp[21572]: D4F7D85061:
>  to=<dap1 at bellsouth.net>, relay=mail.bellsouth.net[207.115.11.17]:25,
>  delay=3.5, delays=0.03/0.01/3.3/0.19, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host
>  mail.bellsouth.net[207.115.11.17] said: 550 [PERMFAIL] bellsouth.net
>  requires valid sender domain (in reply to RCPT TO command))

Well, if the hostname really was home.bellsouth.net, that would map 
to IP address 216.77.188.41, but the reverse DNS for this IP address 
points back to dsl.bellsouth.net, which does map correctly back to 
the same IP address.  So, I would not be surprised to see 
"home.bellsouth.net" changed to "dsl.bellsouth.net" in your outgoing 
mail.

>  Here the from hostname is 'dap002.bellsouth.net' instead of
>  'home.bellsouth.net', that is not to say I know this is the problem
>  but its all I can see as different.

Certainly, the name dap002.bellsouth.net does not exist in the DNS. 
If this is what your system is trying to use to identify itself to 
the outside world, that would be a problem.

>                                       Obviously mailman is somehow
>  overriding the normal from hostname and building its own. The name
>  'dap002' is the LAN hostname but I cannot use that as the from
>  address to my ISP. My ISP has a special hostname for situations like
>  this that will properly resolve via DNS although it is a dummy name
>  for all DHCP assigned IPs. My mm_cfg.py has these 2 lines referring
>  to the hostname but obviously they are not what is being used in this
>  case:

I suspect that the problem you're having may be a hostname or MTA 
misconfiguration issue, which Mailman is not involved in, and which 
cannot be fixed within Mailman.

Try typing the command "hostname" at the command-line prompt on the 
machine.  Also check your MTA configuration to make sure that this is 
not being over-ridden.

>  DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'home.bellsouth.net'
>  DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'home.bellsouth.net'

If you made these changes after the list was created, then they will 
not be reflected in the list configuration.  I think that running 
"fix_url" will do that for you, but you'll have to check the FAQ 
Wizard or the archives of the list to be sure.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Jan 13 00:00:05 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:00:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email classification
In-Reply-To: <4789029C.9070502@neuwald.biz>
References: <4789029C.9070502@neuwald.biz>
Message-ID: <p06240802c3aef6913b79@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/12/08, Felipe Neuwald wrote:

>  I'm thinking, if some user send one email to the mail list, then the
>  mail server reply one email to the user with one web page addres, and
>  then, the user classify the email (like office, home, study, etc) and
>  before the classification, the email is sent to the mail list. There is
>  some way of email classification like these? Or other ways of email
>  classification?

Mailman does not provide any tools to do this sort of thing.

You could have users put the classification in the subject line, or 
you could go through the process outlined in the Mailman FAQ Wizard 
whereby a moderator can modify a message before it is posted to the 
list, but as I recall that's a pretty lengthy and painful process.

I'm not aware of any other options in this case.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From dan at thecsl.org  Sun Jan 13 00:35:10 2008
From: dan at thecsl.org (Dan MacNeil)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 18:35:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attached script to pull out 'confirmed opt-in' and
 'unconfirmed' mailman list members
Message-ID: <47894EAE.9020005@thecsl.org>

An organizations we (http://thecsl.org) serve is moving their 
newsletter to something like constant contact. This service has 
nice marketing features and the resources to wrestle with aol, 
hotmail, etc to prove they aren't spam.

This other serivce, requires their customers to have the list 
members re-confirm their membership if the list owner can't prove 
that the list member originally confirmed her membership

Below is a script that produces two files, one with "confirmed" 
list members and one "unconfirmed" members.

It may be useful to other people.

There may well be smarter people on this list, who can point out 
problems with the script or observe that their is an easier way 
to accomplish my goal.


#### script below this line (this line not included ######
#!/usr/bin/perl -wT

use strict;

my $LIST_NAME = 'utec-news';

# This script produces two files:

#   /tmp/$LIST_NAME_confirmed_opt_in.txt
#      the people who replied to email
#      subscribe invite or or clicked
#      confirm link in subscribe
#      invite email

#  /tmp/$LIST_NAME_unconfirmed_opt_in.txt
#      The people who were subscribed
#      rather than invited
#      or whose confirmation
#      is in logs that were
#      rotated or expunged

# requirements:
#     perl
#     sudo rights to run list_members
#     zgrep, cut, sudo commands
#     installed debian etch mailman package
#     The name of a mailman list (above)
#     Access to mailman logs

# modifying below should adapt script for
# non debian etch systems

my $RAW_CONFIRMED_FILE   = "/tmp/${LIST_NAME}_raw_confirmed.txt";
my $RAW_UNCONFIRMED_FILE = "/tmp/${LIST_NAME}_raw_unconformed.txt";

my $CONFIRMED_FILE   = "/tmp/${LIST_NAME}_confirmed.txt";
my $UNCONFIRMED_FILE = "/tmp/${LIST_NAME}_unconfirmed.txt";

my $SUBSCRIBE_LOGS = '/var/log/mailman/subscribe*';

my $CUT_CMD   = '/usr/bin/cut';
my $ZGREP_CMD = '/bin/zgrep';

my $SUDO_CMD         = '/usr/bin/sudo';
my $LIST_MEMBERS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/list_members';

$ENV{PATH} = '/bin/';

{    # main
     print "\tcreating $RAW_CONFIRMED_FILE\n";
     my $cmd = " $ZGREP_CMD -i ${LIST_NAME}:.*new.*.confirmation";
     $cmd .= " $SUBSCRIBE_LOGS ";
     $cmd .= " | $CUT_CMD  -d ':' -f5 | $CUT_CMD -d  ',' -f1 ";
     $cmd .= " | $CUT_CMD -d ' ' -f3-10 > $RAW_CONFIRMED_FILE";
     ( system($cmd) == 0 )
       or die "failed to create create: $RAW_CONFIRMED_FILE";

     print "\tcleaning $RAW_CONFIRMED_FILE\n";
     my @raw_opt_in_emails = 
pull_out_clean_emails($RAW_CONFIRMED_FILE);

     print
       "\tputting subscriber list for $LIST_NAME in 
$RAW_UNCONFIRMED_FILE\n";
     $cmd = "$SUDO_CMD $LIST_MEMBERS_CMD $LIST_NAME > 
$RAW_UNCONFIRMED_FILE";
     ( system($cmd) == 0 )
       or die "failed to create create: $RAW_CONFIRMED_FILE";

     print "\tcleaning $RAW_UNCONFIRMED_FILE\n";
     my @raw_subscriber_emails = 
pull_out_clean_emails($RAW_UNCONFIRMED_FILE);

     print "\tremoving confirmed opt-in emails from unconfirmed 
list\n";
     my @net_subscriber_emails =
       set_difference( \@raw_subscriber_emails, 
\@raw_opt_in_emails );

     print "\tremoving emails not now subscribed from  opt-in 
emails list\n";
     my @net_opt_in_emails =
       set_intersection( \@raw_subscriber_emails,
       \@raw_opt_in_emails );

     print "\tsaving results: $CONFIRMED_FILE and 
$UNCONFIRMED_FILE \n";
     output_list( $CONFIRMED_FILE,   \@net_opt_in_emails );
     output_list( $UNCONFIRMED_FILE, \@net_subscriber_emails );
}

sub pull_out_clean_emails {
     my $file = shift;
     my @emails;

     my $IN_FH;
     open $IN_FH, $file
       or die "$file: $!";

     while ( my $line = <$IN_FH> ) {
         $line =~ s/[\"<>]//g;
         chomp $line;

         $line =~ /([\w\._\-]+\@[\w\.\-_]+)/;
         $line = lc($1);
         next if $line !~ /\w+/;

         push @emails, $line;
     }
     return @emails;
}

# everything in set a that isn't in set b
sub set_difference {
     my ( $set_a_aref, $set_b_aref ) = @_;
     my @set_result;
     my $skip = 0;

   SET_A: foreach my $a (@$set_a_aref) {
         next if $a =~ /^\s$/;
       SET_B: foreach my $b (@$set_b_aref) {
             if ( $a eq $b ) {
                 $skip = 1;
                 last SET_B;
             }
         }
         push @set_result, $a if not $skip;
         $skip = 0;
     }
     return @set_result;
}

# everything that is both Set a and Set b
sub set_intersection {
     my ( $set_a_aref, $set_b_aref ) = @_;
     my @set_result;
     my $match = 0;

   SET_A: foreach my $a (@$set_a_aref) {
         next if $a =~ /^\s+$/;
       SET_B: foreach my $b (@$set_b_aref) {
             if ( $a eq $b ) {
                 $match = 1;
                 last SET_B;
             }
         }
         push @set_result, $a if $match;
         $match = 0;
     }
     return @set_result;
}

sub output_list {
     my ( $outfile, $list_aref ) = @_;
     my $OUT_FH;
     open $OUT_FH, '>', $outfile
       or die "bad open for write:$outfile reason: $!";

     foreach my $line (@$list_aref) {
         print $OUT_FH "$line\n"
           or die "bad write to $outfile: $!";
     }
}

#### script above this line (this line not included ######

From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Sun Jan 13 02:25:47 2008
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 20:25:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail Processing Problem?
Message-ID: <20080113012655.8F3DB1E401B@bag.python.org>

At 05:58 PM 1/12/2008, you wrote:

>Well, if the hostname really was home.bellsouth.net, that would map 
>to IP address 216.77.188.41, but the reverse DNS for this IP address 
>points back to dsl.bellsouth.net, which does map correctly back to 
>the same IP address.  So, I would not be surprised to see 
>"home.bellsouth.net" changed to "dsl.bellsouth.net" in your outgoing mail.

As I said later, that is a special name set up by the ISP for just 
this type situation.


>Certainly, the name dap002.bellsouth.net does not exist in the DNS. 
>If this is what your system is trying to use to identify itself to 
>the outside world, that would be a problem.

Only mailman is trying to use that name.


>I suspect that the problem you're having may be a hostname or MTA 
>misconfiguration issue, which Mailman is not involved in, and which 
>cannot be fixed within Mailman.

If that we the case, why is it only mailman sending mail that is 
effected? As I demonstrated, when using the 'mail' command, everything is fine.


>Try typing the command "hostname" at the command-line prompt on the 
>machine.  Also check your MTA configuration to make sure that this 
>is not being over-ridden.

There is no MTA setting that would effect mailman and nothing else 
that I can find? Any suggestions?


>If you made these changes after the list was created, then they will 
>not be reflected in the list configuration.  I think that running 
>"fix_url" will do that for you, but you'll have to check the FAQ 
>Wizard or the archives of the list to be sure.

Keep in mind this was a working system that started giving me trouble 
after a restore.




From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jan 13 03:44:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 18:44:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail Processing Problem?
In-Reply-To: <20080112164038.A0CBB1E4020@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801121844080437438be33d@Notebook>

Dennis Putnam wrote:
>
>Here the from hostname is 'dap002.bellsouth.net' instead of 
>'home.bellsouth.net', that is not to say I know this is the problem 
>but its all I can see as different. Obviously mailman is somehow 
>overriding the normal from hostname and building its own. The name 
>'dap002' is the LAN hostname but I cannot use that as the from 
>address to my ISP. My ISP has a special hostname for situations like 
>this that will properly resolve via DNS although it is a dummy name 
>for all DHCP assigned IPs. My mm_cfg.py has these 2 lines referring 
>to the hostname but obviously they are not what is being used in this case:
>
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'home.bellsouth.net'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'home.bellsouth.net'


These will affect list attributes at list creation time but not
subsequently. You can run fix_url to fix the list but in this case,
that isn't necessary. In this case, all you need to do is go the the
list admin General Options page and change "Host name this list
prefers for email." (host_name) from dap002.bellsouth.net to
home.bellsouth.net.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Jan 13 04:24:10 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:24:10 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail Processing Problem?
In-Reply-To: <20080113012655.8F3DB1E401B@bag.python.org>
References: <20080113012655.8F3DB1E401B@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <87prw68l2d.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Dennis Putnam writes:

 > Keep in mind this was a working system that started giving me trouble 
 > after a restore.

Unfortunately, that's not really possible.  People who do not have
access to your system can only match symptoms to cases they've seen in
the past.  This particular symptom is universal for this kind of case:
if *nothing* was working, you wouldn't be posting here at this point.
So it tells us nothing we didn't already know.

As for "worked, broke, restored from backup, some stuff still doesn't
work", the most common cause for that in my experience is that the
configuration changed between backup and the initial breakdown.  Then
this change won't be reflected in the restore.

You say "this hostname only shows up with mailman", do you run your
own MTA, or do you ship everything off to bellsouth which actually
runs the MTA?  Mailman is not really an MTA, but it does have to be
quite a bit smarter than your typical MUA, so it may be that Mailman
is picking up the hostname from /etc/hostname or from the DNS, whereas
other programs are authenticating in some other way and bellsouth's
MTA is happy with them but not with Mailman.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Jan 13 05:24:09 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 22:24:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail Processing Problem?
In-Reply-To: <20080113012655.8F3DB1E401B@bag.python.org>
References: <20080113012655.8F3DB1E401B@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p06240802c3af4055855a@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/12/08, Dennis Putnam wrote:

>>  Certainly, the name dap002.bellsouth.net does not exist in the DNS.
>>  If this is what your system is trying to use to identify itself to
>>  the outside world, that would be a problem.
>
>  Only mailman is trying to use that name.

Not true.  Check your own syslog files.  They very clearly say 
"dap002" in the hostname field.  Syslog and perhaps other processes 
are somehow picking up that value from somewhere.  You should find 
out where.

>>  I suspect that the problem you're having may be a hostname or MTA
>>  misconfiguration issue, which Mailman is not involved in, and which
>>  cannot be fixed within Mailman.
>
>  If that we the case, why is it only mailman sending mail that is
>  effected? As I demonstrated, when using the 'mail' command, everything
>  is fine.

You could trace the entire SMTP dialog process and see what input is 
actually being generated.  With postfix, you could increase the 
debugging level, or you could use alternative programs (like tcpdump 
or WireShark) to sniff the traffic at the network layer.  I'd suggest 
doing both.

Without hard evidence one way or the other, it's difficult to tell.

>  There is no MTA setting that would effect mailman and nothing else
>  that I can find? Any suggestions?

Within the MTA configuration, there should not be anything that would 
affect only Mailman.  It should affect everything that passes through 
the machine, but for example if Mailman is using unqualified host 
names for outgoing mail, then the MTA may be configured to try to fix 
that, and in the process of "fixing" that, other problems might be 
caused.

This is why you need to know exactly what is being sent "on the wire" 
between Mailman and the MTA, and what the MTA is doing internally 
with what it is getting from Mailman.

>  Keep in mind this was a working system that started giving me trouble
>  after a restore.

It's entirely possible that the restore process may have missed some 
configuration file or some configuration option somewhere.  Without 
more information, it's going to be impossible to tell.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Sun Jan 13 15:33:50 2008
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 09:33:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail Processing Problem?
Message-ID: <20080113143415.93FEA1E4004@bag.python.org>

Success!!!!! :-D

It seems I owe you another adult beverage of your choice. Thanks.

Just out of curiosity, where is that parameter kept such that it did 
not get restored from the backup yet all the list archives and members did?

At 09:44 PM 1/12/2008, you wrote:

>These will affect list attributes at list creation time but not
>subsequently. You can run fix_url to fix the list but in this case,
>that isn't necessary. In this case, all you need to do is go the the
>list admin General Options page and change "Host name this list
>prefers for email." (host_name) from dap002.bellsouth.net to
>home.bellsouth.net.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


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From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jan 13 15:58:52 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 06:58:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail Processing Problem?
In-Reply-To: <20080113143415.93FEA1E4004@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801130658520421887f2b19@Notebook>

Dennis Putnam wrote:
>
>Success!!!!! :-D
>
>It seems I owe you another adult beverage of your choice. Thanks.
>
>Just out of curiosity, where is that parameter kept such that it did
>not get restored from the backup yet all the list archives and members did?


host_name is in the list's config.pck file along with all the other
list attributes, membership, options, etc.

So the question is not why it didn't get restored, because it must
have. The question is what else was different before that allowed it
to work?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From chris.oconnell at mcdconcepts.com  Sun Jan 13 22:36:12 2008
From: chris.oconnell at mcdconcepts.com (Chris O'Connell)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 06:36:12 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto accept
Message-ID: <000101c8562c$523fc5c0$f6bf5140$@oconnell@mcdconcepts.com>

Hi

 

I have a list where I want the emails to go  automatically from a certain
email address instead of having to be approved. Where do I enable this
please?

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

 


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Jan 14 06:16:01 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 23:16:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto accept
In-Reply-To: <000101c8562c$523fc5c0$f6bf5140$@oconnell@mcdconcepts.com>
References: <000101c8562c$523fc5c0$f6bf5140$@oconnell@mcdconcepts.com>
Message-ID: <p06240803c3b0a035fe84@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/14/08, Chris O'Connell wrote:

>  I have a list where I want the emails to go  automatically from a certain
>  email address instead of having to be approved. Where do I enable this
>  please?

See the Mailman List Administration Manual, specifically section 
2.7.2 at <http://www.list.org/mailman-admin/node22.html>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mohamed.chaari at st.com  Mon Jan 14 10:29:09 2008
From: mohamed.chaari at st.com (Mohamed CHAARI)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:29:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] running External Archiver on
	background/foreground
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007120611505008286389f1ce@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007120611505008286389f1ce@msapiro>
Message-ID: <478B2B65.3040803@st.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mohamed CHAARI wrote:
> 
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> See
>>> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-August/045994.html>.
>>>
>> you mentioned, in the thread above (Aug 2005), that it would be better 
>> to have a unique temporary file, to avoid conflict problems ...
>> I've tried this, in mm_cfg.py, using unix timestamp
>>
>> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = 'cat > /var/run/mailman/mail_tmp.$(date +%s); 
>> /usr/local/bin/external_arch.pl %(listname)s &'
>>
>> but without success.
>> is there a way to do it ? should I use Python functions to get unix 
>> timestamp for current date ?
> 
> 
> It looks to me as if you have inherited something from Jean-Philippe GIOLA and
> it is now way more complicated than it needs to be.
> 
> Here are my observations on the above:
> 
> 1) The name "mail_tmp.$(date +%s)" may still not be unique. What if two
> messages arrive to be archived within the same second?
> 
> 2)How does /usr/local/bin/external_arch.pl determine what file to read? And, if
> it just picks one, it could be for the wrong list.
> 
> 3)The reason the above doesn't work at all is mailman interpolates into the
> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER string from a dictionary in order to replace
> %(listname)s with the actual listname, but this interpolation sees the %s date
> format and replaces it with the entire dictionary. You have to double the % to
> avoid this. E.g.
> 
> 'cat > /var/run/mailman/mail_tmp.$(date +%%s); /usr/local/bin/external_arch.pl
> %(listname)s &'
> 
> 4) The normal way to do this is to not bother with the tempfile stuff at all,
> but rather to just pipe the message to the external archiver as in
> 
> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/usr/local/bin/external_arch.pl %(listname)s'
> 
> Then external_arch.pl can just read it's standard input for the message. If you
> do it this way, you can't run it in the background because it won't get
> standard input from the pipe, but the only reason it might need to run in the
> background is if it does something which locks the list.
> 

Hello,

I come back to this topic ...
As I really need to keep possibility to have both MM archiving and 
external one, I've made a small patch on Mailman, so that it accepts 
both internal archiving (pipermail) and external archiving (if enabled).
In this way, there is no longer need to call 'arch' in 
'external_arch.pl' script, and thus, this script doesn't need to be run 
in background.

But I would like to have your opinion (Mark and others), about this patch:
- is there any side effect ?
- can there be problems (or conflicts) when receiving and archiving many 
mails ?

here's the patch (on 'Archiver.py'):

--- /home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.orig.py	2008-01-11 
19:40:44.000000000 +0100
+++ /home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py	2008-01-11 
19:44:54.000000000 +0100
@@ -201,20 +201,22 @@
                  # Archive to mbox only.
                  return
          txt = str(msg)
-        # should we use the internal or external archiver?
+
+        # keep using the internal archiver
+        f = StringIO(txt)
+        import HyperArch
+        h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(self)
+        h.processUnixMailbox(f)
+        h.close()
+        f.close()
+
+	# now, use the external archiver (if enabled)
          private_p = self.archive_private
          if mm_cfg.PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and not private_p:
              self.ExternalArchive(mm_cfg.PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER, txt)
          elif mm_cfg.PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and private_p:
              self.ExternalArchive(mm_cfg.PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER, txt)
-        else:
-            # use the internal archiver
-            f = StringIO(txt)
-            import HyperArch
-            h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(self)
-            h.processUnixMailbox(f)
-            h.close()
-            f.close()
+

      #
      # called from MailList.MailList.Save()


Thanks & best regards

-- 
---
--Mohamed CHAARI   (mailto:mohamed.chaari at st.com)

From dblack at ualberta.ca  Mon Jan 14 15:40:28 2008
From: dblack at ualberta.ca (Dennis Black)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:40:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] multiple hosts mounting mailman nfs
In-Reply-To: <AAD0AC6A-8049-4AB4-BB3A-49419A2F8BE1@4j.lane.edu>
References: <5B2F2AB3-FC87-422D-86FF-0950B172FFA6@4j.lane.edu>	<47693920.50103@ualberta.ca>
	<AAD0AC6A-8049-4AB4-BB3A-49419A2F8BE1@4j.lane.edu>
Message-ID: <478B745C.5080608@ualberta.ca>

Troy Knabe wrote:
>> Troy Knabe wrote:
>>     
>>> I have two smtp servers that we use dns round robin for load
>>> balancing.  I can run it one server at a time, but I am running into
>>> some pid lock file issues when I try to run them simultaneously.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Troy
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> Troy,
>> My configuration:
>>
>> A carp machine answers "mailman.srv.ualberta.ca" and alternates  
>> inbound
>> messages
>> to two machines behind the carp machine, "mailman1" and "mailman2",
>> NFS-mounted to a third machine, "mailmandb".
>>     
snip
>> Is it necessary to add the crontab to both servers?  It seems that on  
>> the secondary server (the one I didn't actually run "configure" on)  
>> messages are stuck in the mailq until I restart mailman.
>>
>> -Troy
>>
>>
>>
>>     
Troy, if you mean the crontab for checkdbs, disabled, senddigests, 
mailpasswds, gate_news, etc., in my case I have the
NFS Mailman (third) machine do those.

-- 
Dennis Black
System Admin
Academic Information and Communication Technologies (AICT)
(780-)492-9329
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to which
it is addressed, and may contain confidential, personal, and/or
privileged information. Please contact us immediately if you are not
the intended recipient of this communication. If you are not the
intended recipient of this communication, do not copy, distribute,
or take action on it. Any communication received in error, or
subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.


From gilmore.126 at osu.edu  Mon Jan 14 16:51:01 2008
From: gilmore.126 at osu.edu (Melinda Gilmore)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:51:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Several domains
Message-ID: <002801c856c5$438561e0$a0f39280@ad.service.osu.edu>

One feature that is important to us is the ability to support  
> multiple domain names - i.e., with our current use of Communigate,  
> we can create lists for ecqnet.org, oh-pin.org, etc. 

Is this possible with mailman?

Melinda Gilmore
Systems Engineer
The Ohio State University
Enterprise Messaging/OIT
614-292-4953


From knabe at 4j.lane.edu  Mon Jan 14 16:51:45 2008
From: knabe at 4j.lane.edu (Troy Knabe)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:51:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] multiple hosts mounting mailman nfs
In-Reply-To: <478B745C.5080608@ualberta.ca>
References: <5B2F2AB3-FC87-422D-86FF-0950B172FFA6@4j.lane.edu>
	<47693920.50103@ualberta.ca>
	<AAD0AC6A-8049-4AB4-BB3A-49419A2F8BE1@4j.lane.edu>
	<478B745C.5080608@ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <E2B14DAE-6C0A-4DAE-8918-FB8AB1C567D0@4j.lane.edu>



On Jan 14, 2008, at 6:40 AM, Dennis Black <dblack at ualberta.ca> wrote:

> Troy Knabe wrote:
>>> Troy Knabe wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have two smtp servers that we use dns round robin for load
>>>> balancing.  I can run it one server at a time, but I am running  
>>>> into
>>>> some pid lock file issues when I try to run them simultaneously.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> -Troy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Troy,
>>> My configuration:
>>>
>>> A carp machine answers "mailman.srv.ualberta.ca" and alternates   
>>> inbound
>>> messages
>>> to two machines behind the carp machine, "mailman1" and "mailman2",
>>> NFS-mounted to a third machine, "mailmandb".
>>>
> snip
>>> Is it necessary to add the crontab to both servers?  It seems that  
>>> on  the secondary server (the one I didn't actually run  
>>> "configure" on)  messages are stuck in the mailq until I restart  
>>> mailman.
>>>
>>> -Troy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> Troy, if you mean the crontab for checkdbs, disabled, senddigests,  
> mailpasswds, gate_news, etc., in my case I have the
> NFS Mailman (third) machine do those.
>
> -- 
> Dennis Black
> System Admin
> Academic Information and Communication Technologies (AICT)
> (780-)492-9329
> This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to which
> it is addressed, and may contain confidential, personal, and/or
> privileged information. Please contact us immediately if you are not
> the intended recipient of this communication. If you are not the
> intended recipient of this communication, do not copy, distribute,
> or take action on it. Any communication received in error, or
> subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.
>

Yep I did thanks.

-Trou

From cpz at tuunq.com  Mon Jan 14 17:38:50 2008
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:38:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Several domains
In-Reply-To: <002801c856c5$438561e0$a0f39280@ad.service.osu.edu> from Melinda
	Gilmore at "Jan 14, 2008 10:51:01 am"
Message-ID: <20080114163850.6C7477B2@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Melinda Gilmore wrote:
> One feature that is important to us is the ability to support  
> > multiple domain names - i.e., with our current use of Communigate,  
> > we can create lists for ecqnet.org, oh-pin.org, etc. 
> 
> Is this possible with mailman?

Current versions of mailman don't intrinsically support multiple
domains, however it is possible, look in the FAQ  and archives for 
'virtual domain'.  

One method require patching the code somewhat (it works, I use it), 
the other requires running multiple instances of mailman (one for each 
domain). Both have tradeoffs, but those are described in the faq
entries & emails.

z!

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jan 14 17:52:58 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:52:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Several domains
In-Reply-To: <002801c856c5$438561e0$a0f39280@ad.service.osu.edu>
References: <002801c856c5$438561e0$a0f39280@ad.service.osu.edu>
Message-ID: <478B936A.4030803@msapiro.net>

Melinda Gilmore wrote:
> One feature that is important to us is the ability to support  
>> multiple domain names - i.e., with our current use of Communigate,  
>> we can create lists for ecqnet.org, oh-pin.org, etc. 
> 
> Is this possible with mailman?


Yes, with the restriction in current Mailman that list names must be
globally unique.

Search the FAQ and list archives for add_virtualhost.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Mon Jan 14 21:10:34 2008
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:10:34 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about bounce_info_stale_after
Message-ID: <200801142010.m0EKAYG0014708@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

I am running code

     get_bounce_info.py

that I got from

     http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/get_bounce_info.py

to get a daily bounce_score report.  I was looking at the report this
morning, and I see most entries with old list_bounce_date values.

For all my 218 Mailman lists, I have:

     bounce_processing = True
     bounce_score_threshold = 5.0
     bounce_info_stale_after = 7 (or 40 in some lists)
     bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 3
     bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval = 7

I calculate the number of days ago:

     Jan 14 =  0
     Jan 13 =  1
     ...
     Jan 07 =  7
     Jan 06 =  8
     ...
     Jan 01 = 13
     Dec 31 = 14
     Dec 30 = 15
     ...
     Dec 05 = 40

I see in the report entries such as

     ---------------------------
     <bounce info for member user at example.com
	     current score: 1.0
	     last bounce date: (2007, 10, 3)
	     email notices left: 3
	     last notice date: (1970, 1, 1)
	     confirmation cookie: None
	     >
     ---------------------------

Why is there still bounce information for this subscriber?
The list for which this information is extracted has

     bounce_info_stale_after = 7

so, I would have expected this bounce information to have been deleted
October 10 or 11.  I see this entry in today's report and all the
daily reports back to its first appearance October 03.

Here is a summary of all of the last bounce dates in the file:

     unix% grep "last bounce date:" $mbs | sort | uniq -c
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 5, 22)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 5, 23)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 6, 22)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 6, 27)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 7, 9)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 7, 11)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 7, 12)
	3         last bounce date: (2007, 7, 19)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 7, 20)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 7, 25)
	2         last bounce date: (2007, 7, 27)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 8, 16)
	6         last bounce date: (2007, 8, 20)
	2         last bounce date: (2007, 8, 28)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 8, 29)
       31         last bounce date: (2007, 8, 31)
	4         last bounce date: (2007, 9, 1)
	4         last bounce date: (2007, 9, 4)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 9, 6)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 9, 11)
	2         last bounce date: (2007, 9, 12)
	3         last bounce date: (2007, 9, 17)
	2         last bounce date: (2007, 9, 18)
	2         last bounce date: (2007, 9, 19)
	2         last bounce date: (2007, 9, 20)
	2         last bounce date: (2007, 9, 21)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 9, 27)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 9, 28)
	4         last bounce date: (2007, 10, 2)
	2         last bounce date: (2007, 10, 3)
	2         last bounce date: (2007, 10, 4)
	4         last bounce date: (2007, 10, 8)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 10, 13)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 10, 15)
	2         last bounce date: (2007, 10, 17)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 10, 18)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 10, 25)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 10, 26)
	2         last bounce date: (2007, 10, 31)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 11, 2)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 11, 11)
	2         last bounce date: (2007, 11, 12)
       10         last bounce date: (2007, 11, 13)
	7         last bounce date: (2007, 11, 14)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 11, 16)
	6         last bounce date: (2007, 11, 19)
	2         last bounce date: (2007, 11, 20)
	5         last bounce date: (2007, 11, 21)
	6         last bounce date: (2007, 11, 24)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 11, 25)
	3         last bounce date: (2007, 11, 27)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 11, 28)
	3         last bounce date: (2007, 11, 29)
       27         last bounce date: (2007, 11, 30)
	2         last bounce date: (2007, 12, 1)
	1         last bounce date: (2007, 12, 2)
	9         last bounce date: (2007, 12, 3)
	7         last bounce date: (2007, 12, 4)
       12         last bounce date: (2007, 12, 5)
	2         last bounce date: (2007, 12, 6)

(Note that I have re-sorted this list manually by date).
If the last bounce date is for a list with

     bounce_info_stale_after = 40

then I should only see in the report entries with last bounce date
of December 05 or 06.  And if

     bounce_info_stale_after = 7

I should not see any entries, as there has not been a bounce reported
after December 06 (except those where the bounces did set an address
to nomail or automatically unsubscribed the address).

Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Tue Jan 15 01:12:00 2008
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:12:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail Processing Problem?
In-Reply-To: <478B601A.3070900@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <20080113143415.93FEA1E4004@bag.python.org>
	<478B601A.3070900@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <20080115001553.7D73A1E402B@bag.python.org>

At 08:14 AM 1/14/2008, you wrote:

>Ahh... your quoting seems to be working now... now I can at least 
>make sense of your replies without straining...
>
>Next we'll address the top-posting problem... ;)

The top posting problem was temporary until I could get the quoting 
working right. I figured it would be less confusing that way. :-)


>jk...
>
>--
>
>Best regards,
>
>Charles


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From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 15 13:56:31 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 04:56:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about bounce_info_stale_after
In-Reply-To: <200801142010.m0EKAYG0014708@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
References: <200801142010.m0EKAYG0014708@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <478CAD7F.5040306@msapiro.net>

Barry Finkel wrote:
> 
> I see in the report entries such as
> 
>      ---------------------------
>      <bounce info for member user at example.com
> 	     current score: 1.0
> 	     last bounce date: (2007, 10, 3)
> 	     email notices left: 3
> 	     last notice date: (1970, 1, 1)
> 	     confirmation cookie: None
> 	     >
>      ---------------------------
> 
> Why is there still bounce information for this subscriber?
> The list for which this information is extracted has
> 
>      bounce_info_stale_after = 7
> 
> so, I would have expected this bounce information to have been deleted
> October 10 or 11.  I see this entry in today's report and all the
> daily reports back to its first appearance October 03.


Stale bounce info is not actually deleted until another bounce is
received. Normally, this is not a problem as when the new bounce is
received, the old info is stale and the score is reset to 1.0 for the
new bounce.

Prior to Mailman 2.1.10, there is a problem in cron/disabled in that if
the threshold for a list is reduced to a value less than a current stale
score, the staleness isn't detected and the member is disabled.

In 2.1.10 cron/disabled is fixed and will actually delete stale bounce info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mikaelhansen2 at comcast.net  Tue Jan 15 18:34:14 2008
From: mikaelhansen2 at comcast.net (Mikael Hansen)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:34:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Edit monthly reminder?
Message-ID: <EF270156-7B87-4E4C-8F4D-28CBF0486D3A@comcast.net>

Hello,

I searched the archive, but could find no answer to my question. Is  
it possible to edit/modify the contents of the membership reminder  
that is sent out monthly by email?

Mikael


From knabe at 4j.lane.edu  Tue Jan 15 18:53:51 2008
From: knabe at 4j.lane.edu (Troy Knabe)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:53:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Users Passwords
Message-ID: <A2D822AB-27AA-4281-982E-258A77DED886@4j.lane.edu>

I have installed Mailman for internal lists.  I have about 1500 lists,  
and employees are members of upwards of 200 lists.  Currently those  
lists are ldap groups  and I am working on migrating them to Mailman.   
I need all of my list archives to be private, so users will need their  
passwords.  But if I were to subscribe users to 200 lists and have  
them receive 200 passwords, they would be overwhelmed.  Has anyone  
else dealt with this, if so how did you deal with it?  Even if Mailman  
knew foo at example.com was a member of list a at example.com so when I  
subscribed him to list b at example.com he received the same password.

Thanks
-Troy



From liss at budget101.com  Tue Jan 15 19:17:51 2008
From: liss at budget101.com (Liss)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:17:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot Post to My Mailing List
Message-ID: <0MKp8S-1JEqPa0ztZ-0004Jk@mrelay.perfora.net>

 I checked the archives- but I was not able to locate a solution, so, I'm
picking your brains. . . 
 
My Webserver company offers the mailing list feature (pre-installed on the
server). I have set up 3 mailing lists.
 
1- for announcements only
1 - for daily posts
1- as a test because I cant get any of them to post.
 
When I add new subscribers- they add in fine. They receive the email for new
user like they are supposed to.
 
When I remove someone- that feature also works fine.
 
But when I send a message to the list, from the admin, mod's ,etc `~ no
matter WHAT I try I absolutely cannot get the msg to go through the list.
Nothing shows up in the archives. I don't receive any bounce error msgs,
Nothing. They just.. Vanish. 
 
 I am able to login to the admin panel of the list, I haven't lost any
passwords (that I know of), but I just cant seem to post.
 
Here's the list of my lists (lol)
http://lists.budget101.com/mailman/listinfo
 
TIA for any help or solutions,
 
Liss
 
 

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Jan 15 19:43:45 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 12:43:45 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Edit monthly reminder?
In-Reply-To: <EF270156-7B87-4E4C-8F4D-28CBF0486D3A@comcast.net>
References: <EF270156-7B87-4E4C-8F4D-28CBF0486D3A@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <p06240802c3b2aecc3b62@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/15/08, Mikael Hansen wrote:

>  I searched the archive, but could find no answer to my question. Is
>  it possible to edit/modify the contents of the membership reminder
>  that is sent out monthly by email?

It's a template stored in /usr/local/mailman/templates/en/, which you 
can copy to /usr/local/mailman/lists/<listname>/en/, and then edit it 
locally in that directory.

If you don't have privileged site admin access to the server where 
Mailman is installed and running, then you'll need to ask your site 
admin to do this on your behalf.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Jan 15 20:06:59 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:06:59 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot Post to My Mailing List
In-Reply-To: <0MKp8S-1JEqPa0ztZ-0004Jk@mrelay.perfora.net>
References: <0MKp8S-1JEqPa0ztZ-0004Jk@mrelay.perfora.net>
Message-ID: <p06240806c3b2b42d7e03@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/15/08, Liss wrote:

>  But when I send a message to the list, from the admin, mod's ,etc `~ no
>  matter WHAT I try I absolutely cannot get the msg to go through the list.
>  Nothing shows up in the archives. I don't receive any bounce error msgs,
>  Nothing. They just.. Vanish.

Search for "troubleshoot" in the FAQ Wizard (see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>).  Follow all the 
instructions.  Report back here.

If you are not able to follow all the instructions because you don't 
have access to some of the information, you need to talk to your web 
hosting company and get them to go through that process with you.  If 
you can't get them to do that, then there's nothing more we can do to 
help you.


See also FAQ 6.11 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From Ronald.Trimble at unisys.com  Tue Jan 15 20:52:16 2008
From: Ronald.Trimble at unisys.com (Trimble, Ronald D)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:52:16 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error when using Postfix
Message-ID: <F05A654DE1EB40448E76B127160AF5CF10186EE4@USEA-EXCH7.na.uis.unisys.com>

Everyone,
                I have come about as far as I can with my limited knowledge to get this application running.  I am getting the following error.  Can someone please tell me how to address it?

#< #5.0.0 X-Postfix; Command died with status 2: "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post testlist". Command output: Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group "nobody". Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "mailman", or re-run configure, providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=nobody'.> #SMTP#

Thanks,
Ron


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Tue Jan 15 21:33:23 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:33:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Edit monthly reminder?
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c3b2aecc3b62@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <EF270156-7B87-4E4C-8F4D-28CBF0486D3A@comcast.net>
	<p06240802c3b2aecc3b62@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <478D1893.1000209@Media-Brokers.com>

On 1/15/2008, Brad Knowles (brad at shub-internet.org) wrote:
>> I searched the archive, but could find no answer to my question. Is
>> it possible to edit/modify the contents of the membership reminder
>> that is sent out monthly by email?

> It's a template stored in /usr/local/mailman/templates/en/, which you 
> can copy to /usr/local/mailman/lists/<listname>/en/, and then edit it 
> locally in that directory.

Oops...

I take it thats the way you should do it for any of them?

I edited the 'postheld.txt' template in the templates/en directory, 
instead of copying it to the list subdir.

It works, and I did want the change for all lists - but it is good to 
know how to do a custom one for an individual list if I need to...

Thanks for the tip...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Jan 15 21:45:52 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:45:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Edit monthly reminder?
In-Reply-To: <478D1893.1000209@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <EF270156-7B87-4E4C-8F4D-28CBF0486D3A@comcast.net>
	<p06240802c3b2aecc3b62@[192.168.1.101]>
	<478D1893.1000209@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c3b2cb75f323@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/15/08, Charles Marcus wrote:

>  I take it thats the way you should do it for any of them?
>
>  I edited the 'postheld.txt' template in the templates/en directory,
>  instead of copying it to the list subdir.

If you edited the file in-place, then when you do your next upgrade, 
that template will get replaced.

If you copy it to a list-specific subdirectory (as I suggested), then 
it won't get replaced as part of the next upgrade.

>  It works, and I did want the change for all lists - but it is good to
>  know how to do a custom one for an individual list if I need to...

FAQ 4.48 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp> 
has more information about editing the templates and what you need to 
do in order to get them to be picked up.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 15 14:29:28 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 05:29:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] running External Archiver on
	background/foreground
In-Reply-To: <478B2B65.3040803@st.com>
References: <PC17602007120611505008286389f1ce@msapiro>
	<478B2B65.3040803@st.com>
Message-ID: <478CB538.90309@msapiro.net>

Mohamed CHAARI wrote:
> 
> As I really need to keep possibility to have both MM archiving and
> external one, I've made a small patch on Mailman, so that it accepts
> both internal archiving (pipermail) and external archiving (if enabled).
> In this way, there is no longer need to call 'arch' in
> 'external_arch.pl' script, and thus, this script doesn't need to be run
> in background.
> 
> But I would like to have your opinion (Mark and others), about this patch:
> - is there any side effect ?
> - can there be problems (or conflicts) when receiving and archiving many
> mails ?
> 
> here's the patch (on 'Archiver.py'):
> 
> --- /home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.orig.py    2008-01-11
> 19:40:44.000000000 +0100
> +++ /home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py    2008-01-11
> 19:44:54.000000000 +0100
> @@ -201,20 +201,22 @@
>                  # Archive to mbox only.
>                  return
>          txt = str(msg)
> -        # should we use the internal or external archiver?
> +
> +        # keep using the internal archiver
> +        f = StringIO(txt)
> +        import HyperArch
> +        h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(self)
> +        h.processUnixMailbox(f)
> +        h.close()
> +        f.close()
> +
> +    # now, use the external archiver (if enabled)
>          private_p = self.archive_private
>          if mm_cfg.PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and not private_p:
>              self.ExternalArchive(mm_cfg.PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER, txt)
>          elif mm_cfg.PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and private_p:
>              self.ExternalArchive(mm_cfg.PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER, txt)
> -        else:
> -            # use the internal archiver
> -            f = StringIO(txt)
> -            import HyperArch
> -            h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(self)
> -            h.processUnixMailbox(f)
> -            h.close()
> -            f.close()
> +
> 
>      #
>      # called from MailList.MailList.Save()


The above patch looks fine to me for what you want to do.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Tue Jan 15 22:34:22 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:34:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Edit monthly reminder?
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c3b2cb75f323@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <EF270156-7B87-4E4C-8F4D-28CBF0486D3A@comcast.net>	<p06240802c3b2aecc3b62@[192.168.1.101]>	<478D1893.1000209@Media-Brokers.com>
	<p06240800c3b2cb75f323@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <478D26DE.1070105@Media-Brokers.com>

On 1/15/2008, Brad Knowles (brad at shub-internet.org) wrote:
>> I take it thats the way you should do it for any of them?
>> 
>> I edited the 'postheld.txt' template in the templates/en directory,
>> instead of copying it to the list subdir.

> If you edited the file in-place, then when you do your next upgrade, 
> that template will get replaced.
> 
> If you copy it to a list-specific subdirectory (as I suggested), then 
> it won't get replaced as part of the next upgrade.

>> It works, and I did want the change for all lists - but it is good
>> to know how to do a custom one for an individual list if I need 
>> to...

> FAQ 4.48 at 
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp> 
> 
> has more information about editing the templates and what you need to 
> do in order to get them to be picked up.

Ok, thanks, some good info there...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From ocean at fireandwatersundries.com  Tue Jan 15 22:44:06 2008
From: ocean at fireandwatersundries.com (Ocean-Fire)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:44:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue with set up
Message-ID: <ILEFKIAPHCCHFMFDHPJFKENPCEAA.ocean@fireandwatersundries.com>

Hello,
I am currently the list admin for a small email list I host via my website
for a Dinner group.
We had been previously contacting every invitee separately and I decided to
streamline the process a bit.
So I subscribed all the folks who attend our dinners and receive invites
privately.

This is an example of the email headers I received on all the confirmations
of subscription when that task was completed:
Return-path: <mailman-bounces at fireandwatersundries.com>
Envelope-to: ocean at fireandwatersundries.com,
 ocean at fireandwatersundries.com
Delivery-date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:26:39 -0700
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=55177 helo=tempest.vosn.net)
            by tempest.vosn.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68)
            (envelope-from <mailman-bounces at fireandwatersundries.com>)
            id 1JEqUh-00010d-Fq; Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:26:39 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Monthlypagandinner subscription notification
From: mailman-bounces at fireandwatersundries.com
To: monthlypagandinner-owner at fireandwatersundries.com
Message-ID:
<mailman.23.1200421593.3660.monthlypagandinner_fireandwatersundries.com at fire
andwatersundries.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:26:33 -0700
Precedence: bulk
X-BeenThere: monthlypagandinner at fireandwatersundries.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp2
List-Id: This is the Monthly Pagan Dinner hosted by Ocean and Brian

<monthlypagandinner_fireandwatersundries.com.fireandwatersundries.com>
X-List-Administrivia: yes
Sender: mailman-bounces at fireandwatersundries.com
Errors-To: mailman-bounces at fireandwatersundries.com


The headers on all subsequent email exhibit the same language.
As well within the body of all emails:

-----Original Message-----
From: monthlypagandinner-bounces at fireandwatersundries.com
[mailto:monthlypagandinner-bounces at fireandwatersundries.com]On Behalf Of
Laura Norman
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 11:04 AM
To: monthlypagandinner at fireandwatersundries.com
Subject: Re: [Monthlypagandinner] January Dinner

-----Original Message-----
From: monthlypagandinner-bounces at fireandwatersundries.com
[mailto:monthlypagandinner-bounces at fireandwatersundries.com]On Behalf Of
Ocean-Fire
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 11:20 AM
To: Monthly Pagan Dinner Group
Subject: Re: [Monthlypagandinner] another test


In addition to this issue, the list footers are imbedding as attachemnts!!

Can any advise me as to the correction of these issues?

Sincerely
Ocean

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 15 23:28:46 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:28:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error when using Postfix
In-Reply-To: <F05A654DE1EB40448E76B127160AF5CF10186EE4@USEA-EXCH7.na.uis.unisys.com>
References: <F05A654DE1EB40448E76B127160AF5CF10186EE4@USEA-EXCH7.na.uis.unisys.com>
Message-ID: <478D339E.8050409@msapiro.net>

Trimble, Ronald D wrote:
> Everyone,
>                 I have come about as far as I can with my limited knowledge to get this application running.  I am getting the following error.  Can someone please tell me how to address it?
> 
> #< #5.0.0 X-Postfix; Command died with status 2: "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post testlist". Command output: Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group "nobody". Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "mailman", or re-run configure, providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=nobody'.> #SMTP#

See <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 15 23:47:59 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:47:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue with set up
In-Reply-To: <ILEFKIAPHCCHFMFDHPJFKENPCEAA.ocean@fireandwatersundries.com>
References: <ILEFKIAPHCCHFMFDHPJFKENPCEAA.ocean@fireandwatersundries.com>
Message-ID: <478D381F.1070306@msapiro.net>

Ocean-Fire wrote:
> Hello,
> I am currently the list admin for a small email list I host via my website
> for a Dinner group.
> We had been previously contacting every invitee separately and I decided to
> streamline the process a bit.
> So I subscribed all the folks who attend our dinners and receive invites
> privately.
> 
> This is an example of the email headers I received on all the confirmations
> of subscription when that task was completed:
> Return-path: <mailman-bounces at fireandwatersundries.com>
> Envelope-to: ocean at fireandwatersundries.com,
>  ocean at fireandwatersundries.com
> Delivery-date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:26:39 -0700
> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=55177 helo=tempest.vosn.net)
>             by tempest.vosn.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68)
>             (envelope-from <mailman-bounces at fireandwatersundries.com>)
>             id 1JEqUh-00010d-Fq; Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:26:39 -0700
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Subject: Monthlypagandinner subscription notification
> From: mailman-bounces at fireandwatersundries.com
> To: monthlypagandinner-owner at fireandwatersundries.com
> Message-ID:
> <mailman.23.1200421593.3660.monthlypagandinner_fireandwatersundries.com at fire
> andwatersundries.com>
> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:26:33 -0700
> Precedence: bulk
> X-BeenThere: monthlypagandinner at fireandwatersundries.com
> X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp2
> List-Id: This is the Monthly Pagan Dinner hosted by Ocean and Brian
> 
> <monthlypagandinner_fireandwatersundries.com.fireandwatersundries.com>
> X-List-Administrivia: yes
> Sender: mailman-bounces at fireandwatersundries.com
> Errors-To: mailman-bounces at fireandwatersundries.com
> 
> 
> The headers on all subsequent email exhibit the same language.
> As well within the body of all emails:
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: monthlypagandinner-bounces at fireandwatersundries.com
> [mailto:monthlypagandinner-bounces at fireandwatersundries.com]On Behalf Of
> Laura Norman
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 11:04 AM
> To: monthlypagandinner at fireandwatersundries.com
> Subject: Re: [Monthlypagandinner] January Dinner
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: monthlypagandinner-bounces at fireandwatersundries.com
> [mailto:monthlypagandinner-bounces at fireandwatersundries.com]On Behalf Of
> Ocean-Fire
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 11:20 AM
> To: Monthly Pagan Dinner Group
> Subject: Re: [Monthlypagandinner] another test
> 
> 
> In addition to this issue, the list footers are imbedding as attachemnts!!
> 
> Can any advise me as to the correction of these issues?


For the list footer as attachment issue, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp>.

What is the other issue? Is it the '-bounces' address? This is so
bounces can be processed automatically. The 'on behalf of' is a
Microsoft Outlook (and possibly other MUAs) issue See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.
If that doesn't address your issue, please be more specific as to what
the issue is.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Alan.Sill at ttu.edu  Wed Jan 16 00:03:10 2008
From: Alan.Sill at ttu.edu (Alan Sill)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:03:10 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender shows up as (list)-bounces rather than
	(list) for some users
Message-ID: <76DE1B9D-1850-497F-BAF9-4AB037769B3E@ttu.edu>

Some e-mail programs apparently report the sender as in the Sender:  
field rather than the From: field in hte headers of the e-mail  
messages sent via my mailman e-mail lists.  As a result, when these  
users send, or perhaps reply, to messages, they go to the (list)- 
bounces@(server) address rather than to (list)@(server) as I would wish.

Is this controllable, or can I give the users an instruction on how  
to set their e-mail clients so this does not happen?  Other than just  
telling them and having to repeat the instruction when this happens,  
that is...

Thanks.

From mikaelhansen2 at comcast.net  Wed Jan 16 03:30:19 2008
From: mikaelhansen2 at comcast.net (Mikael Hansen)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:30:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Edit monthly reminder?
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c3b2aecc3b62@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <EF270156-7B87-4E4C-8F4D-28CBF0486D3A@comcast.net>
	<p06240802c3b2aecc3b62@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <DCF03062-DD5D-4F65-9B51-048B8936C0B7@comcast.net>

On Jan 15, 2008, at 10:43, Brad Knowles wrote:

> It's a template stored in /usr/local/mailman/templates/en/, which  
> you can copy to /usr/local/mailman/lists/<listname>/en/, and then  
> edit it locally in that directory.

Done, including sudo bin/mailmanctl restart, but unfortunately my  
list-specific cronpass.txt does not override the standard :-(

Mikael


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Jan 16 04:33:05 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 21:33:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender shows up as (list)-bounces rather than
 (list) for some users
In-Reply-To: <76DE1B9D-1850-497F-BAF9-4AB037769B3E@ttu.edu>
References: <76DE1B9D-1850-497F-BAF9-4AB037769B3E@ttu.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240803c3b32b2c9517@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/15/08, Alan Sill wrote:

>  Some e-mail programs apparently report the sender as in the Sender:
>  field rather than the From: field in hte headers of the e-mail
>  messages sent via my mailman e-mail lists.  As a result, when these
>  users send, or perhaps reply, to messages, they go to the (list)-
>  bounces@(server) address rather than to (list)@(server) as I would wish.

As Mark Sapiro just said a few minutes ago to another person, see FAQ 
2.3 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.

This is not a Mailman problem, there's nothing we can do to help you.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From spyropolymiadis at kromestudios.com  Wed Jan 16 07:49:33 2008
From: spyropolymiadis at kromestudios.com (Spyro Polymiadis)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:49:33 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuring mailman to send email via another port
	(not port 25)
Message-ID: <668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A07BB4897B4@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>

Hi all,

Is there a way to configure mailman to not send mail to lists members via the default SMTP port?
Can I force it to use a second smtp port on the mail server, ie port 2500 for instance?

Cheers J
Spyro



________________________________



This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone. Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this message and its attachments, which does not relate to the official business of the sending company must be taken not to have been sent or endorsed by the sending company or any of its related entities. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from computer virus or other defect.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Jan 16 08:54:17 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 01:54:17 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuring mailman to send email via another
 port (not port 25)
In-Reply-To: <668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A07BB4897B4@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>
References: <668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A07BB4897B4@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3b36841a2b1@[192.168.82.74]>

On 1/16/08, Spyro Polymiadis wrote:

>  Is there a way to configure mailman to not send mail to lists members via
>  the default SMTP port?
>  Can I force it to use a second smtp port on the mail server, ie port 2500
>  for instance?

 From /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py:

# SMTP host and port, when DELIVERY_MODULE is 'SMTPDirect'.  Make sure the
# host exists and is resolvable (i.e., if it's the default of "localhost" be
# sure there's a localhost entry in your /etc/hosts file!)
SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
SMTPPORT = 0                                      # default from smtplib


Of course, if you want to make any changes to use alternative 
hostnames or ports, you'd make those in your mm_cfg.py file and then 
restart Mailman.


Take a long look through this file.  There's lots of good stuff here. 
Consider this file to be part of the documentation you should be 
looking at.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From spyropolymiadis at kromestudios.com  Wed Jan 16 15:16:44 2008
From: spyropolymiadis at kromestudios.com (Spyro Polymiadis)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:16:44 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuring mailman to send email via another
 port (not port 25)
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c3b36841a2b1@[192.168.82.74]>
References: <668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A07BB4897B4@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>
	<p06240801c3b36841a2b1@[192.168.82.74]>
Message-ID: <668C245C6BB6D84594549A1A418E598A07BD1F592A@ms-exch2.kromestudios.com>

Awesome, did the trick exactly :)
Cheers

-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at shub-internet.org]
Sent: Wednesday, 16 January 2008 6:24 PM
To: Spyro Polymiadis; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Configuring mailman to send email via another port (not port 25)

On 1/16/08, Spyro Polymiadis wrote:

>  Is there a way to configure mailman to not send mail to lists members via
>  the default SMTP port?
>  Can I force it to use a second smtp port on the mail server, ie port 2500
>  for instance?

 From /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py:

# SMTP host and port, when DELIVERY_MODULE is 'SMTPDirect'.  Make sure the
# host exists and is resolvable (i.e., if it's the default of "localhost" be
# sure there's a localhost entry in your /etc/hosts file!)
SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
SMTPPORT = 0                                      # default from smtplib


Of course, if you want to make any changes to use alternative
hostnames or ports, you'd make those in your mm_cfg.py file and then
restart Mailman.


Take a long look through this file.  There's lots of good stuff here.
Consider this file to be part of the documentation you should be
looking at.

--
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.4/1227 - Release Date: 16/01/2008 1:40 AM





This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone. Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this message and its attachments, which does not relate to the official business of the sending company must be taken not to have been sent or endorsed by the sending company or any of its related entities. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from computer virus or other defect.

From e1photon at gmail.com  Wed Jan 16 18:05:28 2008
From: e1photon at gmail.com (James Grace)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 12:05:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spamassasin and Mailman
Message-ID: <3b117fd90801160905u4013eb15jefeae816ba14c219@mail.gmail.com>

A quick question on how to implement SpamAssasin with Mailman.  How? >:}

From liss at budget101.com  Wed Jan 16 18:15:56 2008
From: liss at budget101.com (Liss)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 12:15:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments in every email showing
Message-ID: <0MKp8S-1JFBvE44AC-00049g@mrelay.perfora.net>

 I've finally got my mailing list up and running, but no matter what I do,
every single msg comes with a .txt attachment. I cant figure out how to shut
it off!
 
Any ideas?
 
Thanks,
Liss

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Jan 16 18:45:03 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:45:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spamassasin and Mailman
In-Reply-To: <3b117fd90801160905u4013eb15jefeae816ba14c219@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3b117fd90801160905u4013eb15jefeae816ba14c219@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c3b3f3002861@[192.168.82.120]>

On 1/16/08, James Grace wrote:

>  A quick question on how to implement SpamAssasin with Mailman.  How? >:}

Quick answer -- don't.  Do it in your MTA instead.

Long answer -- see the FAQ Wizard.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Jan 16 18:45:26 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:45:26 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments in every email showing
In-Reply-To: <0MKp8S-1JFBvE44AC-00049g@mrelay.perfora.net>
References: <0MKp8S-1JFBvE44AC-00049g@mrelay.perfora.net>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3b3f32731a2@[192.168.82.120]>

On 1/16/08, Liss wrote:

>  I've finally got my mailing list up and running, but no matter what I do,
>  every single msg comes with a .txt attachment. I cant figure out how to shut
>  it off!

Search the FAQ Wizard for "footer".

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Jan 16 18:47:06 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:47:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments in every email showing
In-Reply-To: <0MKp8S-1JFBvE44AC-00049g@mrelay.perfora.net>
References: <0MKp8S-1JFBvE44AC-00049g@mrelay.perfora.net>
Message-ID: <200801161729.m0GHSUfK018094@unreal.eroded.org>

Liss wrote:
>  I've finally got my mailing list up and running, but no matter what I do,
>every single msg comes with a .txt attachment. I cant figure out how to shut
>it off!
>
>Any ideas?
>
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Here is your problem:

"X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353"


The only way you can "fix" this is to stop using Microsoft Outlook 
and/or post only in plain-text, not HTML.

This is not a problem with mailman, it is how Outlook interprets 
multi-part MIME mail messages and the fact that mailman cannot 
determine exactly where to insert a footer into an HTML message as it 
can with a plain-text one. Mailman adds the footer for the list as a 
separate MIME part of the message preserving the original in its own part.

Microsoft chose to show the additional parts of a multi-part message 
as attachments even though they should be rendered in-line like 
Eudora and Thunderbird and a number of other programs do. It is not 
necessarily incorrect to treat such messages this way as the RFCs 
governing it give no guidelines on displaying a message in this form.

This was also addressed on this list at least a couple of times in 
the last week or so.

As Mark has both pointed out, see FAQ entry 4.039 for more detail:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From liss at budget101.com  Wed Jan 16 18:57:58 2008
From: liss at budget101.com (Liss)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 12:57:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments in every email showing
In-Reply-To: <0MKp8S-1JFBvE44AC-00049g@mrelay.perfora.net>
Message-ID: <0MKpCa-1JFCZv2lgu-0008Hl@mrelay.perfora.net>

 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments in every email showing

 The only info in the list attachment is the list info itself:

----------------------------------------------------------
news Weekly Newsletter
news at mydomain.com
http://lists.mydomain.com/mailman/listinfo/mylist

-----------------------------------------------------------

 It happens when I send any html mail -  I have tried every setting I can
think of to shut it off... 

~frustrated~



From zszalbot at gmail.com  Wed Jan 16 19:08:57 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 19:08:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments in every email showing
In-Reply-To: <0MKpCa-1JFCZv2lgu-0008Hl@mrelay.perfora.net>
References: <0MKp8S-1JFBvE44AC-00049g@mrelay.perfora.net>
	<0MKpCa-1JFCZv2lgu-0008Hl@mrelay.perfora.net>
Message-ID: <94136a2c0801161008j7f31fa30w72245ee61f5fff72@mail.gmail.com>

Hello

2008/1/16, Liss <liss at budget101.com>:
>
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments in every email showing
>
>  The only info in the list attachment is the list info itself:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> news Weekly Newsletter
> news at mydomain.com
> http://lists.mydomain.com/mailman/listinfo/mylist
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
>  It happens when I send any html mail -  I have tried every setting I can
> think of to shut it off...

Just delete any list info from non-digest options page.

Kind regards,

Zbigniew Szalbot

From liss at budget101.com  Wed Jan 16 19:13:38 2008
From: liss at budget101.com (Liss)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:13:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments in every email showing
In-Reply-To: <94136a2c0801161008j7f31fa30w72245ee61f5fff72@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0MKpCa-1JFCp42Tc1-0008E1@mrelay.perfora.net>

 
>  It happens when I send any html mail -  I have tried every setting I 
> can think of to shut it off...

Just delete any list info from non-digest options page.,



OMG, THANK You!!! It worked Great, thank you SO Very Much. 

~Liss


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Jan 16 19:24:28 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:24:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments in every email showing
In-Reply-To: <0MKp8S-1JFCdJ1k3i-0004Ac@mrelay.perfora.net>
References: <200801161729.m0GHSUfK018094@unreal.eroded.org>
	<0MKp8S-1JFCdJ1k3i-0004Ac@mrelay.perfora.net>
Message-ID: <200801161806.m0GI5r0T020841@unreal.eroded.org>

Liss sent the message below at 10:01 1/16/2008:
>Okay, but when I send a message to THIS list (which is also mailman) using
>html and Outlook, it doesn't create this issue & goes through the list
>without the attachment.
>
>Why does it work with Mailman user list but not my own?
>
>Thanks for the link, I just subscribed yesterday and I'm having a heck of a
>time locating threads that help.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

The reason you do not see the attachment behavior here is because 
this list is configured to scrub HTML and send in plain text. Since 
the message is flattened to plain text, mailman can simply insert the 
footer at the end of the plain text message and doesn't have to muck 
with MIME formats and multi-part messages.

Please keep the discussion on the list by using reply-to-all, if you 
hit reply it only goes back to the sender (a philosophical point I 
despise but won't try to argue. Thankfully, I can configure my lists 
the way I prefer to post back to the list).



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From sean at 2sparrows.org  Wed Jan 16 19:48:19 2008
From: sean at 2sparrows.org (Sean Butler)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:48:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Same list name, different domains...
Message-ID: <9A0E58F5-9E55-4788-BBFF-11F10228F08D@2sparrows.org>


I've searched around and the following thread is the closest to what  
I need, but I am having trouble getting it to work:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2002-November/023712.html


I need to setup board at eagles.com and board at hrca.org, both of which  
are running as virtual domains...  I'm running debian and postfix.

In /var/lib/mailman/data directory, I end up with two files:

aliases
virtual-mailman


In the aliases file, the original board at eagles looks like this:

# STANZA START: board
# CREATED: Wed Jan 16 13:30:03 2008
board:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post board"
board-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin board"
board-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces board"
...

And the new board at hrca looks like this:

# STANZA START: hrca_board
# CREATED: Wed Jan 16 13:30:03 2008
hrca_board:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post hrca_board"
hrca_board-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin  
hrca_board"
hrca_board-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces  
hrca_board"
...


In the virtual mailman file, the original board at eagles looks likes this:

# STANZA START: board
# CREATED: Wed Jan 16 13:30:03 2008
board at eagles.com      		        board
board-admin at eagles.com        		board-admin
board-bounces at eagles.com		board-bounces
...

# STANZA START: hrca_board
# CREATED: Wed Jan 16 13:30:03 2008
hrca_board at hrca.org     	        hrca_board
hrca_board-admin at hrca.org       	hrca_board-admin
hrca_board-bounces at hrca.org      	hrca_board-bounces
...

 From the instructions in the thread I found, I thought I should just  
modify the hrca_board at hrca.org to be board at hrca.org in the virtual  
mailman file (and all the other ones like -admin, etc.), but that  
doesn't seem to do it...

Also, if I run genaliases, then everything changes back to the  
original state anyway.

Am I missing something???


As additional info, I have postfix set up with:

virtual_maps =  hash:/etc/postfix/db/virtual,
                 hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases,
              hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases


Thanks for any info or ideas anyone can provide.

/Sean




From kremels at kreme.com  Wed Jan 16 19:21:41 2008
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:21:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web forms to
	avoidmember-only restrictions
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200801061302190265d3352c3c@Notebook>
References: <PC1760200801061302190265d3352c3c@Notebook>
Message-ID: <6F8C2105-46EE-4454-8A23-8050B97C1D24@kreme.com>

On 6-Jan-2008, at 14:02, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Are there plans to enhance the web subscription form with a type of
>> captcha, or other technique to discourage bots?
>
> There is no current plan.


There really should be.

-- 
I mistoke thee for thy better
   Hamlet Act III scene 4



From srb at umich.edu  Wed Jan 16 21:21:48 2008
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:21:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web forms
 to	avoidmember-only restrictions
In-Reply-To: <6F8C2105-46EE-4454-8A23-8050B97C1D24@kreme.com>
References: <PC1760200801061302190265d3352c3c@Notebook>
	<6F8C2105-46EE-4454-8A23-8050B97C1D24@kreme.com>
Message-ID: <10E36AD3DB517A9344204C9F@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>

--On January 16, 2008 11:21:41 AM -0700 LuKreme <kremels at kreme.com> wrote:

> There really should be.

To which I reply:

It's open source.  Start coding and submit a patch.

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan 16 21:21:57 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 12:21:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Edit monthly reminder?
In-Reply-To: <DCF03062-DD5D-4F65-9B51-048B8936C0B7@comcast.net>
References: <EF270156-7B87-4E4C-8F4D-28CBF0486D3A@comcast.net>	<p06240802c3b2aecc3b62@[192.168.1.101]>
	<DCF03062-DD5D-4F65-9B51-048B8936C0B7@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <478E6765.3060504@msapiro.net>

Mikael Hansen wrote:
> On Jan 15, 2008, at 10:43, Brad Knowles wrote:
> 
>> It's a template stored in /usr/local/mailman/templates/en/, which  
>> you can copy to /usr/local/mailman/lists/<listname>/en/, and then  
>> edit it locally in that directory.
> 
> Done, including sudo bin/mailmanctl restart, but unfortunately my  
> list-specific cronpass.txt does not override the standard :-(


Did you put it in the existing 'lists/listname/en' directory of your
Mailman installation which may not be
/usr/local/mailman/lists/<listname>/en?

Is this an English language list?

Did you refer to the FAQ for other locations you might want to put the
edited template to make it domain or site wide?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan 16 22:28:07 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:28:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Same list name, different domains...
In-Reply-To: <9A0E58F5-9E55-4788-BBFF-11F10228F08D@2sparrows.org>
References: <9A0E58F5-9E55-4788-BBFF-11F10228F08D@2sparrows.org>
Message-ID: <478E76E7.10009@msapiro.net>

Sean Butler wrote:
> 
> I need to setup board at eagles.com and board at hrca.org, both of which  
> are running as virtual domains...  I'm running debian and postfix.
> 
> In /var/lib/mailman/data directory, I end up with two files:
> 
> aliases
> virtual-mailman
> 
> 
> In the aliases file, the original board at eagles looks like this:
> 
> # STANZA START: board
> # CREATED: Wed Jan 16 13:30:03 2008
> board:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post board"
> board-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin board"
> board-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces board"
> ...
> 
> And the new board at hrca looks like this:
> 
> # STANZA START: hrca_board
> # CREATED: Wed Jan 16 13:30:03 2008
> hrca_board:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post hrca_board"
> hrca_board-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin  
> hrca_board"
> hrca_board-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces  
> hrca_board"
> ...
> 
> 
> In the virtual mailman file, the original board at eagles looks likes this:
> 
> # STANZA START: board
> # CREATED: Wed Jan 16 13:30:03 2008
> board at eagles.com      		        board
> board-admin at eagles.com        		board-admin
> board-bounces at eagles.com		board-bounces
> ...
> 
> # STANZA START: hrca_board
> # CREATED: Wed Jan 16 13:30:03 2008
> hrca_board at hrca.org     	        hrca_board
> hrca_board-admin at hrca.org       	hrca_board-admin
> hrca_board-bounces at hrca.org      	hrca_board-bounces
> ...


The above aliases and virtual-mailman entries look like what you need to
have two lists named respectively 'board' and 'hrca_board' as far as
Mailman is concerned internally and to access these lists via emails as
board at eagles.com, etc. and board at hrca.org, etc. respectively.

Did you run postalias and postmap to update the .db files after making
the above entries.


>  From the instructions in the thread I found, I thought I should just  
> modify the hrca_board at hrca.org to be board at hrca.org in the virtual  
> mailman file (and all the other ones like -admin, etc.), but that  
> doesn't seem to do it...


It should as long as you run postmap after making the mods.

You will also want to set board at hrca.org in acceptable_aliases for the
hrca_board list, and possibly other changes?

In what respect does it not do it? What happens when you mail
board at hrca.org?


> Also, if I run genaliases, then everything changes back to the  
> original state anyway.


Right. This will be a problem, but once you get it set up, you shouldn't
need to run genaliases, as list creation and deletion should keep things
in sync.

> Am I missing something???


It looks OK to me as long as you are running postmap after manually
updating virtual-mailman.


> As additional info, I have postfix set up with:
> 
> virtual_maps =  hash:/etc/postfix/db/virtual,
>                  hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases,
>               hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases


Looks good.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cpenn at srcc.lsu.edu  Wed Jan 16 21:51:03 2008
From: cpenn at srcc.lsu.edu (Chris Penn)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:51:03 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail
Message-ID: <52166.130.39.188.233.1200516663.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>


I have setup a qmailtoaster that is very similar to this setup
http://wiki.qmailtoaster.com/index.p...oaster_Install

I have compiled and installed Mailman on the machine into
/home/mailman/mydomain/

Does anyone know howto setup Qmail and Mailman to work together. The
mailman site has not been very helpful. I am attempting to do this on
Centos 5 using Mailman 2.1.9.

-- 
Sourthern Regional Climate Center
Louisiana State University
Howe-Russell Geoscience Complex
Office E330
Office:225.590.5847
Cell:949.300.3094

" A Mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems." -Erd?s,
Paul
Nov. 1992


From sean at 2sparrows.org  Wed Jan 16 23:19:55 2008
From: sean at 2sparrows.org (Sean Butler)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:19:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Same list name, different domains...
In-Reply-To: <478E76E7.10009@msapiro.net>
References: <9A0E58F5-9E55-4788-BBFF-11F10228F08D@2sparrows.org>
	<478E76E7.10009@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <1BE300CE-FE03-42CC-9D2D-2B0DB6EFB9F7@2sparrows.org>


On Jan 16, 2008, at 4:28 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>>  From the instructions in the thread I found, I thought I should just
>> modify the hrca_board at hrca.org to be board at hrca.org in the virtual
>> mailman file (and all the other ones like -admin, etc.), but that
>> doesn't seem to do it...
>
>
> It should as long as you run postmap after making the mods.
>
> You will also want to set board at hrca.org in acceptable_aliases for the
> hrca_board list, and possibly other changes?
>
> In what respect does it not do it? What happens when you mail
> board at hrca.org?



Ok, I did all this, and it works...

My question now is, that when I run genaliases, it changes the  
virtual mailman file back to hrca_board@ instead of just board@, so  
does that mean every time I need to run genaliases, I'm going to have  
to manually make this change?

Thanks,
Sean

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Jan 17 02:28:44 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:28:44 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web forms
	to	avoidmember-only restrictions
In-Reply-To: <6F8C2105-46EE-4454-8A23-8050B97C1D24@kreme.com>
References: <PC1760200801061302190265d3352c3c@Notebook>
	<6F8C2105-46EE-4454-8A23-8050B97C1D24@kreme.com>
Message-ID: <87ir1t2qb7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

LuKreme writes:
 > On 6-Jan-2008, at 14:02, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 > >> Are there plans to enhance the web subscription form with a type of
 > >> captcha, or other technique to discourage bots?
 > >
 > > There is no current plan.
 > 
 > 
 > There really should be.

Why?  It's user-unfriendly and botnet-friendly technology (ie, we know
that if you throw cycles at the problem you can solve it).  You get
the worst of both worlds.

We need to get out of the arms race with spammers.  We aren't
President Reagan, we can't spend them into submission.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Jan 17 03:42:05 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:42:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web forms to
 avoidmember-only restrictions
In-Reply-To: <6F8C2105-46EE-4454-8A23-8050B97C1D24@kreme.com>
References: <PC1760200801061302190265d3352c3c@Notebook>
	<6F8C2105-46EE-4454-8A23-8050B97C1D24@kreme.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c3b4709edf9e@[192.168.82.120]>

On 1/16/08, LuKreme wrote:

>>>  Are there plans to enhance the web subscription form with a type of
>>>  captcha, or other technique to discourage bots?
>>
>>  There is no current plan.
>
>  There really should be.

CAPTCHAs don't work.  The best mechanism I've found so far that does 
work is to moderate (or discard or reject) postings from 
non-subscribers, and to moderate new subscribers by default.  Once 
they prove they are human beings and capable posting reasonably 
on-topic messages to the list, you can clear their moderation bit.

Nothing else I've seen actually works.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Jan 17 03:46:53 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:46:53 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail
In-Reply-To: <52166.130.39.188.233.1200516663.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>
References: <52166.130.39.188.233.1200516663.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3b47144068d@[192.168.82.120]>

On 1/16/08, Chris Penn wrote:

>  Does anyone know howto setup Qmail and Mailman to work together. The
>  mailman site has not been very helpful. I am attempting to do this on
>  Centos 5 using Mailman 2.1.9.

Unfortunately, qmail hasn't really been updated in about a decade, 
and doesn't play particularly well with non-djb code.  What we've 
been able to figure out for integration with qmail is found in the 
Mailman documentation, although you may find some more tidbits in the 
archives.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From jaco at kroon.co.za  Thu Jan 17 07:10:49 2008
From: jaco at kroon.co.za (Jaco Kroon)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:10:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c3b47144068d@[192.168.82.120]>
References: <52166.130.39.188.233.1200516663.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>
	<p06240801c3b47144068d@[192.168.82.120]>
Message-ID: <478EF169.1040909@kroon.co.za>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> On 1/16/08, Chris Penn wrote:
> 
>>  Does anyone know howto setup Qmail and Mailman to work together. The
>>  mailman site has not been very helpful. I am attempting to do this on
>>  Centos 5 using Mailman 2.1.9.
> 
> Unfortunately, qmail hasn't really been updated in about a decade, 
> and doesn't play particularly well with non-djb code.  What we've 
> been able to figure out for integration with qmail is found in the 
> Mailman documentation, although you may find some more tidbits in the 
> archives.
> 

Try this:  http://www.kroon.co.za/howto.php?howto=qmail_mailman

It's how I got it working a while back.  Should still all be in order.
If there is something that doesn't work, please let me know so I can
update it.

Jaco

From mohamed.chaari at st.com  Thu Jan 17 11:20:27 2008
From: mohamed.chaari at st.com (Mohamed CHAARI)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:20:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] running External Archiver on
	background/foreground
In-Reply-To: <478CB538.90309@msapiro.net>
References: <PC17602007120611505008286389f1ce@msapiro>
	<478B2B65.3040803@st.com> <478CB538.90309@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <478F2BEB.5080606@st.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mohamed CHAARI wrote:
>> As I really need to keep possibility to have both MM archiving and
>> external one, I've made a small patch on Mailman, so that it accepts
>> both internal archiving (pipermail) and external archiving (if enabled).
>> In this way, there is no longer need to call 'arch' in
>> 'external_arch.pl' script, and thus, this script doesn't need to be run
>> in background.
>>
>> But I would like to have your opinion (Mark and others), about this patch:
>> - is there any side effect ?
>> - can there be problems (or conflicts) when receiving and archiving many
>> mails ?
>>
>> here's the patch (on 'Archiver.py'):
>>
>> --- /home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.orig.py    2008-01-11
>> 19:40:44.000000000 +0100
>> +++ /home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py    2008-01-11
>> 19:44:54.000000000 +0100
>> @@ -201,20 +201,22 @@
>>                  # Archive to mbox only.
>>                  return
>>          txt = str(msg)
>> -        # should we use the internal or external archiver?
>> +
>> +        # keep using the internal archiver
>> +        f = StringIO(txt)
>> +        import HyperArch
>> +        h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(self)
>> +        h.processUnixMailbox(f)
>> +        h.close()
>> +        f.close()
>> +
>> +    # now, use the external archiver (if enabled)
>>          private_p = self.archive_private
>>          if mm_cfg.PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and not private_p:
>>              self.ExternalArchive(mm_cfg.PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER, txt)
>>          elif mm_cfg.PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and private_p:
>>              self.ExternalArchive(mm_cfg.PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER, txt)
>> -        else:
>> -            # use the internal archiver
>> -            f = StringIO(txt)
>> -            import HyperArch
>> -            h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(self)
>> -            h.processUnixMailbox(f)
>> -            h.close()
>> -            f.close()
>> +
>>
>>      #
>>      # called from MailList.MailList.Save()
> 
> 
> The above patch looks fine to me for what you want to do.
> 

what about the Archiver.pyc file ? do you think it is necessary to 
re-compile and re-install the whole soft ? or simply apply the patch on 
Archiver.py to make it working ?

thank you

-- 
---
--Mohamed CHAARI   (mailto:mohamed.chaari at st.com)

From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Thu Jan 17 16:32:43 2008
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:32:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List regularly displays junk
Message-ID: <478F751B.6080909@pauahtun.org>

Hi All--
This is for a list I don't run, but am a member of.

Regularly, people post documents in some other encoding, and they get 
posted to the list as garbage.  Message source shows:

 >  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
 >  X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by chak-chak.pauahtun.net 
id m0HF0UZX032101
 >  Status:  O

I don't think these are HTML messages that people are posting, just 
differently encoded (it's an international list).

I'd like to give the list-owners some advice (and I do think they'll be 
amenable, providing it's good advice;-) ).  So what are the best 
settings to tell them to use?

Metta,
Ivan
-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Jan 17 16:57:01 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 07:57:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] running External Archiver on
 background/foreground
In-Reply-To: <478F2BEB.5080606@st.com>
References: <PC17602007120611505008286389f1ce@msapiro>
	<478B2B65.3040803@st.com> <478CB538.90309@msapiro.net>
	<478F2BEB.5080606@st.com>
Message-ID: <200801171538.m0HFcFwP014652@unreal.eroded.org>

Mohamed CHAARI wrote:

>what about the Archiver.pyc file ? do you think it is necessary to
>re-compile and re-install the whole soft ? or simply apply the patch on
>Archiver.py to make it working ?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Python is (usually) smart enough to figure out if the source file has 
been updated and the .pyc file is stale. In most cases you don't have 
to do anything to make it work after editing the .py file. If you are 
really concerned about it, just delete the .pyc file and it will be 
generated anew when Python next executes the .py file.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From fbowling at bbl.usouthal.edu  Thu Jan 17 18:01:25 2008
From: fbowling at bbl.usouthal.edu (Fletch Bowling)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:01:25 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list_members output with fullname option
Message-ID: <478F89E5.1000804@bbl.usouthal.edu>

Hello,
I am trying to get a file output with list members and getting the file 
with just the email names is no problem and works fine.
But the docs say there is a / -f option to get the full names in the 
output. This causes list_members to simply crash and output the standard 
help file.
Any fix for this?

Thanks,
Fletch


From mgrueter at aol.com  Thu Jan 17 18:46:06 2008
From: mgrueter at aol.com (Michael Grueter)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 09:46:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list_members output with fullname option
In-Reply-To: <478F89E5.1000804@bbl.usouthal.edu>
References: <478F89E5.1000804@bbl.usouthal.edu>
Message-ID: <BE78E621-5B79-4BEC-B8B4-6487FCC832BC@aol.com>

Hi Fletch,

I just did this yesterday. I found that the "/" was not needed. The  
command should look like this:

bin/list_members -f ListName

- Mike

On Jan 17, 2008, at 9:01 AM, Fletch Bowling wrote:

> I am trying to get a file output with list members and getting the  
> file
> with just the email names is no problem and works fine.
> But the docs say there is a / -f option to get the full names in the
> output. This causes list_members to simply crash and output the  
> standard
> help file.
> Any fix for this?

From fbowling at bbl.usouthal.edu  Thu Jan 17 19:09:26 2008
From: fbowling at bbl.usouthal.edu (Fletch Bowling)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:09:26 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list_members output with fullname option
In-Reply-To: <BE78E621-5B79-4BEC-B8B4-6487FCC832BC@aol.com>
References: <478F89E5.1000804@bbl.usouthal.edu>
	<BE78E621-5B79-4BEC-B8B4-6487FCC832BC@aol.com>
Message-ID: <478F99D6.9020205@bbl.usouthal.edu>

Michael Grueter wrote:

Thanks Michael,
I just stumbled on to it myself along with the fact that the -o needs to 
be behind the -f like this:

./list_members  -f -o filename listname

Wonder why the manual states to use "/" if it makes the script crash?

Regardless I am good to go now..thank you.
Fletch


> Hi Fletch,
>
> I just did this yesterday. I found that the "/" was not needed. The 
> command should look like this:
>
> bin/list_members -f ListName
>
> - Mike
>
> On Jan 17, 2008, at 9:01 AM, Fletch Bowling wrote:
>
>> I am trying to get a file output with list members and getting the file 
>>
>> with just the email names is no problem and works fine.
>>
>> But the docs say there is a / -f option to get the full names in the 
>>
>> output. This causes list_members to simply crash and output the standard 
>>
>> help file.
>>
>> Any fix for this?
>>
> = 


From joakim at nomell.se  Thu Jan 17 21:20:03 2008
From: joakim at nomell.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Joakim_N=F6mell?=)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:20:03 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change -owner addresses
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.0.99.0801172118150.2013@merope.webworld.se>

Hi all. I have just upgraded my system to MM 2.1.9 and wonder if it is 
possible to change the -owner-addresses to something else? The reason is 
that we receive a lot of spam after 3 years use. We already have 
spam-filters.

Thanks in advance

-- 
__________________________________________________________________
Joakim N?mell     Tel  : 070 771 31 00     MSN  : joakim at nomell.nu
Unix engineer                              Web  : http://nomell.se
------------------------------------------------------------------

From cpenn at srcc.lsu.edu  Thu Jan 17 21:57:32 2008
From: cpenn at srcc.lsu.edu (Chris Penn)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:57:32 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Howto find Users for a list?
Message-ID: <38645.130.39.188.233.1200603452.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>


I need to create a list of users for a particular list.  is there a way I
can find out who is subscribed to a list in mailman?

Thanks,

Chris...

-- 
Sourthern Regional Climate Center
Louisiana State University
Howe-Russell Geoscience Complex
Office E330
Office:225.590.5847
Cell:949.300.3094

" A Mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems." -Erd?s,
Paul
Nov. 1992


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Thu Jan 17 22:03:33 2008
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:03:33 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Same list name, different domains...
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Sean Butler <sean@2sparrows.org>'
	dated: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:48:19 -0500
Message-ID: <200801172103.m0HL3XFH001413@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

Sean Butler <sean at 2sparrows.org> wrote:

>I've searched around and the following thread is the closest to what  
>I need, but I am having trouble getting it to work:
>
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2002-November/023712.html
>
>
>I need to setup board at eagles.com and board at hrca.org, both of which  
>are running as virtual domains...  I'm running debian and postfix.
>
>In /var/lib/mailman/data directory, I end up with two files:
>
>aliases
>virtual-mailman
>
>
>In the aliases file, the original board at eagles looks like this:
>
># STANZA START: board
># CREATED: Wed Jan 16 13:30:03 2008
>board:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post board"
>board-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin board"
>board-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces board"
>...
>
>And the new board at hrca looks like this:
>
># STANZA START: hrca_board
># CREATED: Wed Jan 16 13:30:03 2008
>hrca_board:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post hrca_board"
>hrca_board-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin  
>hrca_board"
>hrca_board-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces  
>hrca_board"
>...
>
>
>In the virtual mailman file, the original board at eagles looks likes this:
>
># STANZA START: board
># CREATED: Wed Jan 16 13:30:03 2008
>board at eagles.com      		        board
>board-admin at eagles.com        		board-admin
>board-bounces at eagles.com		board-bounces
>...
>
># STANZA START: hrca_board
># CREATED: Wed Jan 16 13:30:03 2008
>hrca_board at hrca.org     	        hrca_board
>hrca_board-admin at hrca.org       	hrca_board-admin
>hrca_board-bounces at hrca.org      	hrca_board-bounces
>...
>
> From the instructions in the thread I found, I thought I should just  
>modify the hrca_board at hrca.org to be board at hrca.org in the virtual  
>mailman file (and all the other ones like -admin, etc.), but that  
>doesn't seem to do it...
>
>Also, if I run genaliases, then everything changes back to the  
>original state anyway.
>
>Am I missing something???
>
>
>As additional info, I have postfix set up with:
>
>virtual_maps =  hash:/etc/postfix/db/virtual,
>                 hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases,
>              hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
>
>
>Thanks for any info or ideas anyone can provide.

If the aliases file has

     # STANZA START: hrca_board
     # CREATED: Wed Jan 16 13:30:03 2008
     hrca_board at hrca.org     	        hrca_board
     ...

when you really want 

     # STANZA START: board

then I think that the string "hrca_board" must be in the list
configuration file somewhere, and that is why you are getting that
string as the list name.  As you wrote, changing the aliases file
works, but the changes can be redone by Mailman.

Then, as I was typing this reply I noticed that if this list were named
"board", then you would have two lists with the same name.  Even if the
names are in different virtual domains, you cannot have two lists
with the same name in Mailman 2.1.9.  I am not sure if this restriction
will be removed in 2.1.10.  So, one list will have to remain
"hrca_board" if the other list is named "board".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From jidanni at jidanni.org  Thu Jan 17 22:12:56 2008
From: jidanni at jidanni.org (jidanni at jidanni.org)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 05:12:56 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] surely can install mailman without root?
Message-ID: <87zlv417hj.fsf@jidanni.org>

Does one really need root privileges to install mailman?

Surely I could install mailman on my web shared hosting plan
without root. (As the version of mailman Dreamhost provides gives the
administrator only access to the web interface, and not the shell
scripts -- drives one nuts trying to debug.)

I'll just use --with-username=$USER --with-groupname=`id -g` ...
--with-cgi-ext=.cgi etc. and then use my .procmailrc to redirect what
comes to the extra mailboxes my hosting plan allows me to make...

And for sending mail I can use /usr/sbin/sendmail -i -f ...

Is the above neglecting a fundamental principle?

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1867285&group_id=103&atid=100103

From mgrueter at aol.com  Thu Jan 17 22:31:26 2008
From: mgrueter at aol.com (Michael Grueter)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:31:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Howto find Users for a list?
In-Reply-To: <38645.130.39.188.233.1200603452.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>
References: <38645.130.39.188.233.1200603452.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>
Message-ID: <18BD76A7-F00D-4E45-984E-5513E60481B9@aol.com>

Hi Chris,

Check the Mailman FAQ for a couple ways to do what you want:

<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#3.62>

- Mike

On Jan 17, 2008, at 12:57 PM, Chris Penn wrote:

> I need to create a list of users for a particular list.  is there a  
> way I
> can find out who is subscribed to a list in mailman?


From jidanni at jidanni.org  Thu Jan 17 22:35:38 2008
From: jidanni at jidanni.org (jidanni at jidanni.org)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 05:35:38 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] great. no gmane
Message-ID: <87abn416fp.fsf@jidanni.org>

I find it only natural to read mailing lists via NNTP/gnus/Gmane.org.
I can't imagine reading mailman-users via my little mailbox.

However we *denied* gmane:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.discuss/11433
http://www.mail-archive.com/search?q=gmane&l=mailman-users%40python.org

And http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users does not
list an alternative to
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

OK, I will read via
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
(i.e., "use own company products", "taste own medicine")

From jidanni at jidanni.org  Thu Jan 17 22:40:44 2008
From: jidanni at jidanni.org (jidanni at jidanni.org)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 05:40:44 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mass subscribe one per line, names too?
Message-ID: <8763xs1677.fsf@jidanni.org>

Gentlemen, the administrator's mass subscriptions entry box does not
mention how to get their English names added too. Does one put them in like:

Ted Blazanov <bzz at example.com>
Neurdovitz <bxzz at example.com>

Also say I have chosen site language = English. May I still enter
Chinese UTF names or expect disaster?

From mcnutt at utk.edu  Thu Jan 17 22:39:02 2008
From: mcnutt at utk.edu (McNutt Jr, William R)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:39:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Constipation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2963.1200605506.894.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <0913EC48F2B05C4FBE4878BAFCABBFEC0181FF30@KFSVS2.utk.tennessee.edu>

I have a recurring problem with my mailman server.  It keeps getting
constipated.  E-mails will pile up, un-served.  Stopping and re-starting
mailman clear out the que.

When I stop and start it, I get the following messages.

# bin/mailmanctl stop
Shutting down Mailman's master qrunner
No child with pid: 1711
[Errno 3] No such process
Stale pid file removed.
# bin/mailmanctl start
Starting Mailman's master qrunner.

Can anybody offer me any insight as to what might be causing this?

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+mcnutt=utk.edu at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+mcnutt=utk.edu at python.org] On Behalf Of
mailman-users-request at python.org
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 4:32 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 47, Issue 33

Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to
	mailman-users at python.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	mailman-users-request at python.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	mailman-users-owner at python.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Users digest..."

From jidanni at jidanni.org  Thu Jan 17 23:01:14 2008
From: jidanni at jidanni.org (jidanni at jidanni.org)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 06:01:14 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] English the best language
Message-ID: <871w8g1591.fsf@jidanni.org>

It is my understanding that on the administrator panels, picking a
site language other than English means more than perhaps some stale
message stings. It is more like one is imperiling their site to a half
blended years old version of the entire software.

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1861600&group_id=103&atid=100103

So my question is is this a common strategy: though I could pick
language X from the administrator panel like I want, I still choose
English there, but leave X installed for users to still choose, if
they so dare or don't know better.

And how much damage would that cause if they did choose X, assuming I
made sure listinfo.html subscribe.html options.html subscribeack.txt,
i.e., the only pages in language X I can edit on Dreamhost, had all
the missing buttons etc. added back by me.

Or maybe I should not allow them to choose X at all. Hope they can
read English.

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan 17 22:58:19 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:58:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list_members output with fullname option
In-Reply-To: <478F99D6.9020205@bbl.usouthal.edu>
References: <478F89E5.1000804@bbl.usouthal.edu>	<BE78E621-5B79-4BEC-B8B4-6487FCC832BC@aol.com>
	<478F99D6.9020205@bbl.usouthal.edu>
Message-ID: <478FCF7B.6090605@msapiro.net>

Fletch Bowling wrote:
> 
> Wonder why the manual states to use "/" if it makes the script crash?


What it says is

    --fullnames / -f
        Include the full names in the output.

In this context, the slash separates the two alternative ways
('--fullnames' or '-f') of spelling the option.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan 17 23:03:14 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:03:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Same list name, different domains...
In-Reply-To: <1BE300CE-FE03-42CC-9D2D-2B0DB6EFB9F7@2sparrows.org>
References: <9A0E58F5-9E55-4788-BBFF-11F10228F08D@2sparrows.org>
	<478E76E7.10009@msapiro.net>
	<1BE300CE-FE03-42CC-9D2D-2B0DB6EFB9F7@2sparrows.org>
Message-ID: <478FD0A2.6020601@msapiro.net>

Sean Butler wrote:
> 
> My question now is, that when I run genaliases, it changes the virtual
> mailman file back to hrca_board@ instead of just board@, so does that
> mean every time I need to run genaliases, I'm going to have to manually
> make this change?


Yes.

But why do you want to run genaliases?  Normally this is only required
to sync your aliases and virtual-mailman files after perhaps making
configuration changes of some kind. Normal list creation and deletion
should just update the affected entries in these files, and will not
change the board at hrca.org entries back to hrca_board.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan 17 23:03:46 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:03:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List regularly displays junk
In-Reply-To: <478F751B.6080909@pauahtun.org>
References: <478F751B.6080909@pauahtun.org>
Message-ID: <478FD0C2.3000506@msapiro.net>

Ivan Van Laningham wrote:
> 
> Regularly, people post documents in some other encoding, and they get 
> posted to the list as garbage.  Message source shows:
> 
>  >  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>  >  X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by chak-chak.pauahtun.net 
> id m0HF0UZX032101


This header was added by an MTA at chak-chak.pauahtun.net which did the
conversion.  It is unlikely that the conversion per se is the cause of
the problem.


>  >  Status:  O


This header is added by your MUA to keep track of whether the message is
Old/New/Read/Unread, etc.


> I don't think these are HTML messages that people are posting, just 
> differently encoded (it's an international list).
> 
> I'd like to give the list-owners some advice (and I do think they'll be 
> amenable, providing it's good advice;-) ).  So what are the best 
> settings to tell them to use?


It is not clear that Mailman is even involved in the problem. It is not
even clear what the nature of the problem is.

In order to even guess at what the problem is, I would need to see all
the headers and an excerpt of the 'garbage'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sean at 2sparrows.org  Thu Jan 17 23:22:33 2008
From: sean at 2sparrows.org (Sean Butler)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:22:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Same list name, different domains...
In-Reply-To: <478FD0A2.6020601@msapiro.net>
References: <9A0E58F5-9E55-4788-BBFF-11F10228F08D@2sparrows.org>
	<478E76E7.10009@msapiro.net>
	<1BE300CE-FE03-42CC-9D2D-2B0DB6EFB9F7@2sparrows.org>
	<478FD0A2.6020601@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <01D482CD-EC2B-4692-8208-3EEE84798B90@2sparrows.org>

On Jan 17, 2008, at 5:03 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Sean Butler wrote:
>>
>> My question now is, that when I run genaliases, it changes the  
>> virtual
>> mailman file back to hrca_board@ instead of just board@, so does that
>> mean every time I need to run genaliases, I'm going to have to  
>> manually
>> make this change?
>
>
> Yes.
>
> But why do you want to run genaliases?  Normally this is only required
> to sync your aliases and virtual-mailman files after perhaps making
> configuration changes of some kind. Normal list creation and deletion
> should just update the affected entries in these files, and will not
> change the board at hrca.org entries back to hrca_board.
>

Ah, ok... Then I should be ok.

Thanks,
Sean

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan 17 23:53:45 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:53:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Constipation
In-Reply-To: <0913EC48F2B05C4FBE4878BAFCABBFEC0181FF30@KFSVS2.utk.tennessee.edu>
References: <0913EC48F2B05C4FBE4878BAFCABBFEC0181FF30@KFSVS2.utk.tennessee.edu>
Message-ID: <478FDC79.3080500@msapiro.net>

McNutt Jr, William R wrote:
> I have a recurring problem with my mailman server.  It keeps getting
> constipated.  E-mails will pile up, un-served.  Stopping and re-starting
> mailman clear out the que.
> 
> When I stop and start it, I get the following messages.
> 
> # bin/mailmanctl stop
> Shutting down Mailman's master qrunner
> No child with pid: 1711
> [Errno 3] No such process
> Stale pid file removed.
> # bin/mailmanctl start
> Starting Mailman's master qrunner.


Your mailmanctl master and one or more qrunner processes are dying.

See <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>.

Next time it happens, check to see which Mailman processes are still
runninng if any. If there are any, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp>
about stopping them all before starting Mailman again.

Also check Mailman's qrunner and error logs and system logs for clues as
to why/how they died.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan 17 23:41:34 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:41:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change -owner addresses
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.0.99.0801172118150.2013@merope.webworld.se>
References: <alpine.DEB.0.99.0801172118150.2013@merope.webworld.se>
Message-ID: <478FD99E.1060000@msapiro.net>

Joakim N?mell wrote:
> Hi all. I have just upgraded my system to MM 2.1.9 and wonder if it is 
> possible to change the -owner-addresses to something else?


It may or may not be easy. At a minimum, you'd need to change

    def GetOwnerEmail(self):
        return self.getListAddress('owner')

in Mailman/MailList.py to

    def GetOwnerEmail(self):
        return self.getListAddress('somethingelse')

And also change the -owner aliases. I can't promise there aren't other
places where the -owner address is generated.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Jan 18 01:08:54 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:08:54 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  surely can install mailman without root?
In-Reply-To: <87zlv417hj.fsf@jidanni.org>
References: <87zlv417hj.fsf@jidanni.org>
Message-ID: <873aswm1ux.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

jidanni at jidanni.org writes:

 > Does one really need root privileges to install mailman?

You could probably make it "work" more or less, but to make things
secure you do need root privileges.

 > Is the above neglecting a fundamental principle?

Yes.  Security.  If your host allows you to do such things, I strongly
suggest you find one who won't. ;-)







From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Jan 18 01:10:57 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:10:57 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  English the best language
In-Reply-To: <871w8g1591.fsf@jidanni.org>
References: <871w8g1591.fsf@jidanni.org>
Message-ID: <871w8gm1ri.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

jidanni at jidanni.org writes:

 > Or maybe I should not allow them to choose X at all. Hope they can
 > read English.

Or, since you obviously can read English, you could translate the
strings and submit a patch.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jan 18 00:50:10 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:50:10 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change -owner addresses
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.0.99.0801172118150.2013@merope.webworld.se>
References: <alpine.DEB.0.99.0801172118150.2013@merope.webworld.se>
Message-ID: <p06240802c3b599c92fd4@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/17/08, Joakim N?mell wrote:

>  Hi all. I have just upgraded my system to MM 2.1.9 and wonder if it is
>  possible to change the -owner-addresses to something else? The reason is
>  that we receive a lot of spam after 3 years use. We already have
>  spam-filters.

Go to the main web admin page for your list, type 
in a different address in the second field, the 
one for the listowner address(es), then hit the 
"Submit Your Changes" button at the bottom of the 
page.  It's pretty simple.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jan 18 00:51:10 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:51:10 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Howto find Users for a list?
In-Reply-To: <38645.130.39.188.233.1200603452.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>
References: <38645.130.39.188.233.1200603452.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240803c3b59a3c4ac6@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/17/08, Chris Penn wrote:

>  I need to create a list of users for a particular list.  is there a way I
>  can find out who is subscribed to a list in mailman?

You can go to the web admin page for the list, then to the 
"Membership Management" page.  If you need anything more, see the FAQ 
Wizard for the command-line alternatives.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jan 18 00:52:06 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:52:06 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Same list name, different domains...
In-Reply-To: <200801172103.m0HL3XFH001413@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
References: <200801172103.m0HL3XFH001413@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <p06240804c3b59a875c56@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/17/08, Barry Finkel wrote:

>  Then, as I was typing this reply I noticed that if this list were named
>  "board", then you would have two lists with the same name.  Even if the
>  names are in different virtual domains, you cannot have two lists
>  with the same name in Mailman 2.1.9.  I am not sure if this restriction
>  will be removed in 2.1.10.

This restriction cannot be removed before Mailman 2.2.x, at the earliest.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jan 18 00:52:48 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:52:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] surely can install mailman without root?
In-Reply-To: <87zlv417hj.fsf@jidanni.org>
References: <87zlv417hj.fsf@jidanni.org>
Message-ID: <p06240805c3b59ab16629@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/18/08, jidanni at jidanni.org wrote:

>  Does one really need root privileges to install mailman?

Yup.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jan 18 00:54:59 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:54:59 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] great. no gmane
In-Reply-To: <87abn416fp.fsf@jidanni.org>
References: <87abn416fp.fsf@jidanni.org>
Message-ID: <p06240806c3b59ad96f9e@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/18/08, jidanni at jidanni.org wrote:

>  I find it only natural to read mailing lists via NNTP/gnus/Gmane.org.
>  I can't imagine reading mailman-users via my little mailbox.
>
>  However we *denied* gmane:

Gmane shot themselves in the foot.  Repeatedly.  If they had 
contacted us beforehand, we might have been more accommodating. 
Since they repeatedly ignored their own procedures in this regard, we 
have no choice but to prohibit them from providing any kind of NNTP 
gateway services for this list.

By all rights, they should be banned from providing any NNTP gateway 
services for any list hosted at python.org, but I have not pushed 
that issue.  At least, not yet.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jan 18 01:00:11 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:00:11 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mass subscribe one per line, names too?
In-Reply-To: <8763xs1677.fsf@jidanni.org>
References: <8763xs1677.fsf@jidanni.org>
Message-ID: <p06240807c3b59b6f92b1@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/18/08, jidanni at jidanni.org wrote:

>  Gentlemen, the administrator's mass subscriptions entry box does not
>  mention how to get their English names added too. Does one put them in like:
>
>  Ted Blazanov <bzz at example.com>
>  Neurdovitz <bxzz at example.com>

Yup.  This is mentioned in the archives, but I'm still looking for 
the relevant piece of documentation or the appropriate FAQ Wizard 
entry.

>  Also say I have chosen site language = English. May I still enter
>  Chinese UTF names or expect disaster?

Dunno.  The developers of Mailman have tried to make it as 
multi-language friendly as possible, but this may or may not work. 
Feel free to give it a try and let us know how it works out for you.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jan 18 01:05:52 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:05:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] English the best language
In-Reply-To: <871w8g1591.fsf@jidanni.org>
References: <871w8g1591.fsf@jidanni.org>
Message-ID: <p06240808c3b59d470178@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/18/08, jidanni at jidanni.org wrote:

>  And how much damage would that cause if they did choose X, assuming I
>  made sure listinfo.html subscribe.html options.html subscribeack.txt,
>  i.e., the only pages in language X I can edit on Dreamhost, had all
>  the missing buttons etc. added back by me.

This is an open source project, maintained entirely by volunteers in 
their non-existent free time.  You're always welcome to contribute 
code changes.

Failing that, the software costs exactly $0.00, and provides a pretty 
good Return On Investment for most users, including the hundreds of 
people who have been involved in producing all the language 
translations so far.

You're welcome to join the translation team, if you like.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From jidanni at jidanni.org  Fri Jan 18 01:41:28 2008
From: jidanni at jidanni.org (jidanni at jidanni.org)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 08:41:28 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] surely can install mailman without root?
References: <p06240805c3b59ab16629@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <87fxwwx8w7.fsf@jidanni.org>

>> Does one really need root privileges to install mailman?

BK> Yup.

I see. See ya. Bye.

SJT> You could probably make it "work" more or less, but to make things
SJT> secure you do need root privileges.

>> Is the above neglecting a fundamental principle?

SJT> Yes.  Security.  If your host allows you to do such things, I strongly
SJT> suggest you find one who won't. ;-)

My mom just spent $400 for me for 5 years at Dreamhost. What's the
worst that could happen? All the files on my account getting deleted?
No problem, I'll just put mailman on a different one of my unlimited
shell users. Now of course clogging the mail system for others would
not be acceptable.

Anyway it seems mailman is complicated enough to just use the web half
that Dreamhost allows, as ask their support staff to fix things I
can't reach.

Imagine me not being to stop bad bots via .htaccess.
Imagine all mail going straight to the moderator queue with no
.procmail etc. filtering. That is what I'm worried about with only web
access.

BK> This is an open source project, maintained entirely by volunteers
Never mind, I'll try the competition.
$ w3m -dump http://www.sympa.org/|grep Sorry
Sorry, you don't have enough rights to continue. Perhaps you forgot to login?

OK, looks I'm stuck with you guys.
BK> You're welcome to join the translation team, if you like.
My expertise is in just reporting lots of minor bugs.

From Brandon at WebsterRidge.com  Fri Jan 18 02:30:24 2008
From: Brandon at WebsterRidge.com (Brandon Sussman)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 20:30:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] surely can install mailman without root?
In-Reply-To: <87fxwwx8w7.fsf@jidanni.org>
References: <p06240805c3b59ab16629@[192.168.1.101]>
	<87fxwwx8w7.fsf@jidanni.org>
Message-ID: <47900130.50009@WebsterRidge.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

jidanni at jidanni.org wrote:

|
| My mom just spent $400 for me for 5 years at Dreamhost. What's the

Since DreamHost already has implemented Mailman for you, why don't you
concentrate on setting up your mail lists properly and securely?
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From justbrits at comcast.net  Fri Jan 18 02:47:28 2008
From: justbrits at comcast.net (JB@comcast)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 19:47:28 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] surely can install mailman without root?
References: <87zlv417hj.fsf@jidanni.org>
	<873aswm1ux.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <06a301c85974$163ca250$6401a8c0@actualshop>

Along the lines of this (Org. mail already dele'd & I forget who asked):

<quote>
jidanni at jidanni.org writes:

 > Does one really need root privileges to install mailman?
</quote>

Would it be the problems of one doing a full install in a seperate folder on a shared host site??  Space not a problem for myself and I would surmise the orginal questioner.

Just asking 'cause I realy do feel my expertise is far enough advanced -:).

Tnx.

Ed

From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Jan 18 03:14:54 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:14:54 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] surely can install mailman without root?
In-Reply-To: <87fxwwx8w7.fsf@jidanni.org>
References: <p06240805c3b59ab16629@[192.168.1.101]>
	<87fxwwx8w7.fsf@jidanni.org>
Message-ID: <87r6gflw0x.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

jidanni at jidanni.org writes:

 > >> Is the above neglecting a fundamental principle?
 > 
 > SJT> Yes.  Security.  If your host allows you to do such things, I strongly
 > SJT> suggest you find one who won't. ;-)
 > 
 > My mom just spent $400 for me for 5 years at Dreamhost. What's the
 > worst that could happen? All the files on my account getting deleted?
 > No problem,

You need to learn that what *you* don't know can hurt the rest of us.
Specifically, if the files on your account can be deleted, they can be
replaced.  Eg, with a set of spam filters that open the floodgates to
a spammer, along with a brand new set of 1 million subscribers you
never heard of.

 > I'll just put mailman on a different one of my unlimited shell
 > users.

No, you'll lose all your unlimited shell users, and be banned for life
from that system.  Nor will your mother get her $400 back, since you
violated the AUP.

 > Imagine me not being to stop bad bots via .htaccess.
 > Imagine all mail going straight to the moderator queue with no
 > .procmail etc. filtering. That is what I'm worried about with only web
 > access.

You get what you pay for.  Hardware and bandwidth, unfortunately,
cannot be provided in infinite amounts at negligible cost the way that
software can.


From jidanni at jidanni.org  Fri Jan 18 03:19:13 2008
From: jidanni at jidanni.org (jidanni at jidanni.org)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:19:13 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mass subscribe one per line, names too?
References: <p06240807c3b59b6f92b1@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <878x2nc1um.fsf@jidanni.org>

OK, thanks. Filed bug
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=1874279&group_id=103&atid=100103

From kewlpcs at hotmail.com  Fri Jan 18 04:12:34 2008
From: kewlpcs at hotmail.com (Michael James Wright)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:12:34 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installing Mailman
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1200624743.28337.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.0.1200624743.28337.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <BAY107-W71CA63AE0837D7E808FA0BA420@phx.gbl>

Dear Support Group 
 
I'm trying 2 setup mailman on my WEBSITE http://www.stormsearchers.com/overveiw/overveiw.html but i don't no python programming.could someone help us out here... 
 
Regards 
Michael Wright 
_________________________________________________________________
It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 at CarPoint.com.au
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT

From subscribed-lists at sterndata.com  Fri Jan 18 04:36:01 2008
From: subscribed-lists at sterndata.com (Steven Stern)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:36:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installing Mailman
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-W71CA63AE0837D7E808FA0BA420@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.0.1200624743.28337.mailman-users@python.org>
	<BAY107-W71CA63AE0837D7E808FA0BA420@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <47901EA1.1000607@sterndata.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01/17/2008 09:12 PM, Michael James Wright wrote:
| Dear Support Group
|
| I'm trying 2 setup mailman on my WEBSITE
http://www.stormsearchers.com/overveiw/overveiw.html but i don't no
python programming.could someone help us out here...
|
|

It would be helpful to know what operating system your website is
running and whether you have shell and root access.

- --

~  Steve
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFHkB6heERILVgMyvARArN9AJ9RyK4liQoQNIhpSEtVlY7PzsR3CwCeLP9l
yCcBxO6X5BzYnqPQqmiyrLo=
=GObj
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Fri Jan 18 09:47:25 2008
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 08:47:25 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Whenever this pain will end??
Message-ID: <BLU130-W3779A4FABF2FFB6E894617FB420@phx.gbl>


Hello All, 
 
well it's the same ol' story, I'm getting a "500 INTERNAL SERVER ERROR" and can't even log into my mailman's administration pages..
 
I've checked the searchable archives and noticed that many users have been facing the same error and nobody could provide a working solution .. unless if I missed something while reading the archives, did u guys found a cure for this pain in the act??
 
I'm running an Apache/2.0.52 (CentOS) Server , 2GBs of RAM, 120GBs hard disk space, and my mailman started to act this way ever since the list has grown to over 73,000 subscribers knowing that ONLY I post to my list and only one message is posted to the list daily ..
 
and one more thing, I kinda got lazy to read about how to retrieve your subscription list and subscribe or unsubscribe users from the list without using the admin interface, so could u please tell me how to add and remove new users without going to the admin pages that doesn't work?
 
please HELP!
 
Thank you ..
_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts!? Play the word scramble challenge with star power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan

From zszalbot at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 10:13:40 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:13:40 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Whenever this pain will end??
In-Reply-To: <BLU130-W3779A4FABF2FFB6E894617FB420@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU130-W3779A4FABF2FFB6E894617FB420@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <94136a2c0801180113m2dfff3f7p339c8749c06cbf3d@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

2008/1/18, Khalil Abbas <khillo100 at hotmail.com>:

> well it's the same ol' story, I'm getting a "500 INTERNAL SERVER ERROR" and can't even log into my mailman's administration pages..

You should for starters analyze your apache error logs.

> and one more thing, I kinda got lazy to read about how to retrieve your subscription list and subscribe or unsubscribe users from the list without using the admin interface, so could u please tell me how to add and remove new users without going to the admin pages that doesn't work?

/path_to_mailman/bin is where all the useful scripts reside.

HTH

Zbigniew Szalbot

From matt.l.zimmerman at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 15:20:49 2008
From: matt.l.zimmerman at gmail.com (Matt Zimmerman)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:20:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Script
Message-ID: <50852730801180620h4ac74f78g76998e83b936a12b@mail.gmail.com>

Mailman users,

I am using mailman 2.18 and I have about 2,000 lists. I was wondering if
anybody had a script that would output which lists had messages needing to
be moderated.

Thanks,

Matt

From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Fri Jan 18 16:38:40 2008
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:38:40 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Script
In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Matt Zimmerman" <matt.l.zimmerman@gmail.com>'
	dated: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:20:49 -0500
Message-ID: <200801181538.m0IFcecf028353@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

>Mailman users,
>
>I am using mailman 2.18 and I have about 2,000 lists. I was wondering if
>anybody had a script that would output which lists had messages needing to
>be moderated.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Matt

On my Ubuntu Mailman 2.1.9 in directory

     /var/lib/mailman/data

is where Mailman keeps its held messages.  I believe that any message
held for moderation would be a file with name

     heldmsg-LISTNAME-##.pck

You could look there and see what "heldmsg*" files exist.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jan 18 16:57:25 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:57:25 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] surely can install mailman without root?
In-Reply-To: <87fxwwx8w7.fsf@jidanni.org>
References: <p06240805c3b59ab16629@[192.168.1.101]>
	<87fxwwx8w7.fsf@jidanni.org>
Message-ID: <p06240800c3b67af36afa@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/18/08, jidanni at jidanni.org wrote:

>  I see. See ya. Bye.

Mailman is one of the most powerful and flexible mailing list 
management systems in the world, but it is not the right answer for 
everyone.  If you're not a suitable candidate for using Mailman, then 
I'm sorry we can't help you, but we can't just wave a magic wand and 
make everything perfect for you instantly.

>  My mom just spent $400 for me for 5 years at Dreamhost. What's the
>  worst that could happen? All the files on my account getting deleted?

Mailman just wasn't designed to be installed that way.  If you need a 
tool that can be installed that way, you need to look elsewhere.

>  Imagine me not being to stop bad bots via .htaccess.
>  Imagine all mail going straight to the moderator queue with no
>  .procmail etc. filtering. That is what I'm worried about with only web
>  access.

I have full privileged command-line access to the python.org servers, 
because I am the currently active member of the Python.org Postmaster 
Team, as well as the Mailmn Site Administrator and co-moderator of 
the various mailman-* mailing lists.

Frankly, I do almost all of my Mailman administration via the web. 
Typically, the only times I ever need to log onto the server and 
access things via the command line is when there is a problem with a 
particular user not being able to send e-mail to us and I need to go 
do some deep searching of the MTA logs on the server and 
compare/contrast those with the Mailman logs.

>  BK> You're welcome to join the translation team, if you like.
>
>  My expertise is in just reporting lots of minor bugs.

Apparently, you can also read at least one other language as well as 
English, so if you want to complain about the support that Mailman 
provides for other languages it would be pretty hypocritical of you 
to avoid contributing your skills and knowledge towards increasing 
the quality of the translations.

We've got version 2.1.10 waiting in the wings, currently in the 
process of having the translations updated for other languages.  This 
is an ideal opportunity for you to help yourself as well as to help 
others.


Or, you could just keep complaining.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jan 18 17:03:17 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:03:17 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Script
In-Reply-To: <50852730801180620h4ac74f78g76998e83b936a12b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50852730801180620h4ac74f78g76998e83b936a12b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3b67d66fe07@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/18/08, Matt Zimmerman wrote:

>  I am using mailman 2.18 and I have about 2,000 lists. I was wondering if
>  anybody had a script that would output which lists had messages needing to
>  be moderated.

The mmdsr script that I wrote, and have contributed to the Mailman 
project, includes monitoring of which lists have messages waiting to 
be moderated as one of the many things it checks on and includes in 
the daily report it generates and sends to you.

Mark Sapiro has recently made some modifications to this script to 
make it more friendly to installation on various different versions 
of Unix and Unix-like OSes which have slightly varying differences in 
the behaviour of certain commands like "sort".  Although this script 
may also be available elsewhere, this version is included in the 
contrib/ directory of version 2.1.10 (which is currently in beta, 
waiting for translations to other languages to be completed).

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From egearhart at dakotacom.net  Fri Jan 18 18:35:00 2008
From: egearhart at dakotacom.net (Eric Gearhart)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:35:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No footers for subscribers that are non-digest
Message-ID: <4790E344.8060204@dakotacom.net>

OK this one has baffled me.

We have set up a custom footer, for both non-digest and digest messages

When users send out messages to the list, non-digest subscribers receive 
no footer. Digest subscribers see the footer though.

In mailman/bin I can run ./dumpdb 
../lists/cassie-tips_listserv3.dakotacom.net/config.pck | grep footer

and I get:
    'digest_footer': 'To STOP, SUSPEND, CHANGE, or otherwise DO ANYTHING 
to your subscription, go 
here:\r\nhttp://listserv3.dakotacom.net/mailman/listinfo/cassie-tips_listserv3.dakotacom.net',
    'msg_footer': 'To STOP, SUSPEND, CHANGE, or otherwise DO ANYTHING to 
your subscription, go 
here:\r\nhttp://listserv3.dakotacom.net/mailman/listinfo/cassie-tips_listserv3.dakotacom.net',

So the settings are in the config.pck file... at this point I'm pretty 
much stuck.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,
Eric

From du at bestwaytech.com  Fri Jan 18 20:34:18 2008
From: du at bestwaytech.com (Danila Ulyanov)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:34:18 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot accept or reject messages as moderator
Message-ID: <4790FF3A.9020004@bestwaytech.com>

When going to "pending moderator requests" and attempting to do anything 
with a pending request, nothing happens. Accept, reject, etc. - just 
refreshes screen as if nothing happened after clicking Submit.

The log files show nothing, no errors on screen. This started happening 
after one of the regular system updates that updated a bunch of perl 
packages that may have been related, but there were no errors.

Any suggestions on how I may troubleshoot this issue? Is there a debug 
flag that can be turned on for this?

Thanks!

Danila

From RLamaster at nkschools.org  Fri Jan 18 20:37:04 2008
From: RLamaster at nkschools.org (Lamaster, Robert)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:37:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix->Mailman->Exchange - Where are my NDR's?
Message-ID: <837641D45B610D4EAB1320166D515E8E025B2B5A@EVS1.nkschools.local>

I need some help tracking down where my NDR's are going.  So far, we
haven't seen any.  Here's the setup for how mail is set to our lists:

User sends to a M$ Exchange mailbox (Created in Active Directory).  That
mailbox is configured to forward to a "Contact" in Active Directory,
which has the email address of the list on Mailman.  Postfix receives
the message from the "Contact" and hands it off to Mailman, which
dutifully expands it to individual emails (with VERP) as list-bounces.
Mailman then uses M$ Exchange as it's MTA to send the mails to (1)
internal recipients, and (2) our front-end Exchange server for delivery
to external recipients.

 

So... we've checked the inbox for the sender's mailbox and the M$
Exchange mailbox (there isn't a mailbox for the contact) and have found
no NDRs, even though we know there are a ton of them being generated.
Are the NDRs being returned to Mailman?  If so, is there any way I can
intercept them?


From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Fri Jan 18 21:13:49 2008
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 20:13:49 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mass subscribe
In-Reply-To: <mailman.26.1200654006.15067.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.26.1200654006.15067.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <BLU130-W421E5C12CA915F77516961FB420@phx.gbl>


 
dear mailman guys,
 
2 things ..
 
1- is there a way to mass-subscribe users through sending a command by email to the list without the administritive interface? because I keep getting an Internal server error message.. 
 
2- I've been trying to get a list of users to my email using the 'who password' command.. but it keeps giving me only 2500 addresses instead of the 75000+ emails in my list .. what to do about it?
 
your help is highly appreciated ..
 
Thanks..
_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts!? Play the word scramble challenge with star power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan

From subscribed-lists at sterndata.com  Fri Jan 18 21:41:21 2008
From: subscribed-lists at sterndata.com (Steven Stern)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:41:21 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mass subscribe
In-Reply-To: <BLU130-W421E5C12CA915F77516961FB420@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.26.1200654006.15067.mailman-users@python.org>
	<BLU130-W421E5C12CA915F77516961FB420@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <47910EF1.2030701@sterndata.com>

Khalil Abbas wrote:
>  
> dear mailman guys,
>  
> 2 things ..
>  
> 1- is there a way to mass-subscribe users through sending a command by email to the list without the administritive interface? because I keep getting an Internal server error message.. 
>  
> 2- I've been trying to get a list of users to my email using the 'who password' command.. but it keeps giving me only 2500 addresses instead of the 75000+ emails in my list .. what to do about it?
>  
> your help is highly appreciated ..
>  

/path-to-mailman/bin/sync_members [options] -f filename listname

/path-to-mailman/bin/list_members listname


From cpenn at srcc.lsu.edu  Fri Jan 18 22:06:15 2008
From: cpenn at srcc.lsu.edu (Chris Penn)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:06:15 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Hosts
Message-ID: <39195.130.39.188.233.1200690375.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>

Hi,

I have a mailserver at mail.mydomain.com.  The mailman url path is
mail.mydomain.com.
I have virtual domain mail server setup running on a mysql backend.
I have mailman setup and I am attempting to setup the mm_cfg.py
I am having a little trouble with the way I am suppose to setup the "Put
YOUR site-specific settings below this line" part. I know that I want
something like this:

####################################
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mail.mydomain.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mail.mydomain.com'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
####################################

I think I want to replace the default_url_host and default_email_hosts.
in the add_virtualhost().  I dont think it should be the default.  When
people mail the list is should be whateverlist at mydomain.com.

Thanks,

Chris Penn...

-- 
Sourthern Regional Climate Center
Louisiana State University
Howe-Russell Geoscience Complex
Office E330
Office:225.590.5847
Cell:949.300.3094

" A Mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems." -Erd?s,
Paul
Nov. 1992


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Fri Jan 18 22:54:06 2008
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:54:06 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix->Mailman->Exchange - Where are my NDR's?
In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Lamaster, Robert" <RLamaster@nkschools.org>'
	dated: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:37:04 -0800
Message-ID: <200801182154.m0ILs6fx008305@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

"Lamaster, Robert" <RLamaster at nkschools.org> wrote:

>I need some help tracking down where my NDR's are going.  So far, we
>haven't seen any.  Here's the setup for how mail is set to our lists:
>
>User sends to a M$ Exchange mailbox (Created in Active Directory).  That
>mailbox is configured to forward to a "Contact" in Active Directory,
>which has the email address of the list on Mailman.  Postfix receives
>the message from the "Contact" and hands it off to Mailman, which
>dutifully expands it to individual emails (with VERP) as list-bounces.
>Mailman then uses M$ Exchange as it's MTA to send the mails to (1)
>internal recipients, and (2) our front-end Exchange server for delivery
>to external recipients.
>
> 
>
>So... we've checked the inbox for the sender's mailbox and the M$
>Exchange mailbox (there isn't a mailbox for the contact) and have found
>no NDRs, even though we know there are a ton of them being generated.
>Are the NDRs being returned to Mailman?  If so, is there any way I can
>intercept them?

The NDR messages are sent back to the -bounces address and processed
by Mailman.  On my Ubuntu Mailman 2.1.9 system I see that in

     /var/lib/mailman/data

there is one file:

     bounce-events-04304.pck

This file is from my creating a list and entering a typo in the e-mail
address of the list owner, so the list-creation e-mail could not be
sent.  You might look in this directory.  As I was typing this reply
there was a second file in this directory, but it quickly vanished
after, I assume, the Mailman bounce processor read the NDR mail,
updated the affected subscription bounce score, and then deleted the
NDR mail.

In

     /var/log/mailman

I see files

     bounce
     bounce.1
     bounce.2.gz
     bounce.3.gz
     bounce.4.gz

These log files record bounces and what happens to the bounce_score;
there is no information as to why the mail bounced.  When a subscriber's
bounce_score reaches the maximum, and the subscriber is set to NOMAIL,
then the last NDR is sent to the list owner(s).  You could temporarily
lower the maximum to 1.0 so that the first bounce would send the NDR
to the list owner(s).  I have installed a module from Mark Sapiro
that gives me a daily bounce_score report for all of my lists.

Does your Exchange Server have mail logs where you can see what is
happening?  I am used to sendmail and Postfix syslogs on Unix; I have
not looked at any Exchange Server logs to see what is available.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jan 18 23:46:31 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:46:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No footers for subscribers that are non-digest
In-Reply-To: <4790E344.8060204@dakotacom.net>
References: <4790E344.8060204@dakotacom.net>
Message-ID: <47912C47.1010207@msapiro.net>

Eric Gearhart wrote:
> 
> When users send out messages to the list, non-digest subscribers receive 
> no footer. Digest subscribers see the footer though.
> 
> In mailman/bin I can run ./dumpdb 
> ../lists/cassie-tips_listserv3.dakotacom.net/config.pck | grep footer
> 
> and I get:
>     'digest_footer': 'To STOP, SUSPEND, CHANGE, or otherwise DO ANYTHING 
> to your subscription, go 
> here:\r\nhttp://listserv3.dakotacom.net/mailman/listinfo/cassie-tips_listserv3.dakotacom.net',
>     'msg_footer': 'To STOP, SUSPEND, CHANGE, or otherwise DO ANYTHING to 
> your subscription, go 
> here:\r\nhttp://listserv3.dakotacom.net/mailman/listinfo/cassie-tips_listserv3.dakotacom.net',
> 
> So the settings are in the config.pck file... at this point I'm pretty 
> much stuck.


Do you see anything in Mailman's error log?

Does msg_footer work on any list?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jan 18 23:54:28 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:54:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Hosts
In-Reply-To: <39195.130.39.188.233.1200690375.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>
References: <39195.130.39.188.233.1200690375.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>
Message-ID: <47912E24.8030205@msapiro.net>

Chris Penn wrote:
> 
> I have a mailserver at mail.mydomain.com.  The mailman url path is
> mail.mydomain.com.
> I have virtual domain mail server setup running on a mysql backend.
> I have mailman setup and I am attempting to setup the mm_cfg.py
> I am having a little trouble with the way I am suppose to setup the "Put
> YOUR site-specific settings below this line" part. I know that I want
> something like this:
> 
> ####################################
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mail.mydomain.com'
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mail.mydomain.com'
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> ####################################
> 
> I think I want to replace the default_url_host and default_email_hosts.
> in the add_virtualhost().  I dont think it should be the default.  When
> people mail the list is should be whateverlist at mydomain.com.


If people mail the lists at whateverlist at mydomain.com, and you have the
appropriate MX or A records so this works, what you want is

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mydomain.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mail.mydomain.com'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jan 19 00:01:40 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:01:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot accept or reject messages as moderator
In-Reply-To: <4790FF3A.9020004@bestwaytech.com>
References: <4790FF3A.9020004@bestwaytech.com>
Message-ID: <47912FD4.2000207@msapiro.net>

Danila Ulyanov wrote:
> When going to "pending moderator requests" and attempting to do anything 
> with a pending request, nothing happens. Accept, reject, etc. - just 
> refreshes screen as if nothing happened after clicking Submit.
> 
> The log files show nothing, no errors on screen. This started happening 
> after one of the regular system updates that updated a bunch of perl 
> packages that may have been related, but there were no errors.


See <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From RLamaster at nkschools.org  Sat Jan 19 00:45:57 2008
From: RLamaster at nkschools.org (Lamaster, Robert)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:45:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix->Mailman->Exchange - Where are my NDR's?
Message-ID: <837641D45B610D4EAB1320166D515E8E025B2FB2@EVS1.nkschools.local>

OK, after further research (I finally found a good source), I see that
Mailman discards bounce (NDR) messages (whether or not you turn on it's
bounce processing feature).

 

Is there any way I can temporarily intercept these for troubleshooting?
I'd just like to see some of the NDRs.


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Sat Jan 19 00:53:19 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:53:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix->Mailman->Exchange - Where are my NDR's?
In-Reply-To: <837641D45B610D4EAB1320166D515E8E025B2FB2@EVS1.nkschools.lo cal>
References: <837641D45B610D4EAB1320166D515E8E025B2FB2@EVS1.nkschools.local>
Message-ID: <200801182334.m0INYG5K008362@unreal.eroded.org>

Lamaster, Robert sent the message below at 15:45 1/18/2008:
>OK, after further research (I finally found a good source), I see that
>Mailman discards bounce (NDR) messages (whether or not you turn on it's
>bounce processing feature).
>
>
>
>Is there any way I can temporarily intercept these for troubleshooting?
>I'd just like to see some of the NDRs.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Is there some way you can have the -bounces address deliver to both 
the mailman queue and a mailbox?

I know that is possible with sendmail but I am unsure about your setup.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From jidanni at jidanni.org  Sat Jan 19 03:10:33 2008
From: jidanni at jidanni.org (jidanni at jidanni.org)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 10:10:33 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] surely can install mailman without root?
References: <p06240800c3b67af36afa@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <87hcha36qu.fsf@jidanni.org>

Dudes, out of curiosity why can't mailman be totally installed and run
without involving root? Indeed maybe it would be a safer and more
portable installation.

E.g., who cares what MTA is installed when one can just use:

#Untested partial .procmailrc for a mailman list on a catchall mailbox
#for a domain. No need to have root adjust some MTA's configuration!
0:
LIST=nurds
*$^TO_ $LIST-\/(admin|bounces|confirm|join|leave|owner|request|subscribe|unsubscribe)
|mail/mailman $MATCH $LIST
0:
*$^TO_ $LIST
|mail/mailman post $LIST

And the mailman directory tree we just tailor in ./configure to match
the site's apache setup. No meddling with apache config files.

And sending mail we just send to port 25 or /usr/lib/sendmail.

I mean one can install e.g., MediaWiki with all the bells and whistles
without root.

Does mailman run setuid root? No. SetGID seems no big hurdle on most
unix accounts. CGI is a feature of most hosting accounts. Mailbox
forwarding and aliases are features of most hosting accounts.

There, see, I have rewritten your thinking: indeed a totally
non-root-involved installation keeps one insulated from (and meddling
with) the underlying details. Yes, rewritten your thinking, all
without testing. Hope it really works. "What could go wrong?"

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Jan 19 03:14:11 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 20:14:11 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix->Mailman->Exchange - Where are my NDR's?
In-Reply-To: <837641D45B610D4EAB1320166D515E8E025B2FB2@EVS1.nkschools.local>
References: <837641D45B610D4EAB1320166D515E8E025B2FB2@EVS1.nkschools.local>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3b70cfea5b8@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/18/08, Lamaster, Robert wrote:

>  OK, after further research (I finally found a good source), I see that
>  Mailman discards bounce (NDR) messages (whether or not you turn on it's
>  bounce processing feature).

Mailman will discard them, if you turn off the bounce processing 
feature.  Otherwise, it will process them.

By default, Mailman should forward to you a copy of all bounces it 
gets that it does not understand.  So, it should only be processing 
those bounces which it does understand.  In theory, you shouldn't 
have anything to worry about, at least as far as Mailman properly 
processing the bounces.

>  Is there any way I can temporarily intercept these for troubleshooting?
>  I'd just like to see some of the NDRs.

It's all in your aliases.  Just change your aliases for the 
appropriate "-bounces" address to go somewhere else, so that you can 
see everything.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Jan 19 03:37:48 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 20:37:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] surely can install mailman without root?
In-Reply-To: <87hcha36qu.fsf@jidanni.org>
References: <p06240800c3b67af36afa@[192.168.1.101]>
	<87hcha36qu.fsf@jidanni.org>
Message-ID: <p06240804c3b7128df344@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/19/08, jidanni at jidanni.org wrote:

>  Dudes, out of curiosity why can't mailman be totally installed and run
>  without involving root? Indeed maybe it would be a safer and more
>  portable installation.

Feel free to give it a try and report back to us.

>  E.g., who cares what MTA is installed when one can just use:
>
>  #Untested partial .procmailrc for a mailman list on a catchall mailbox
>  #for a domain. No need to have root adjust some MTA's configuration!

Okay, so now you've just made Mailman 100% dependant on having 
procmail installed, as opposed to not really caring what MTA may be 
installed, and being able to work with multiple different MTAs.

>  There, see, I have rewritten your thinking: indeed a totally
>  non-root-involved installation keeps one insulated from (and meddling
>  with) the underlying details. Yes, rewritten your thinking, all
>  without testing. Hope it really works. "What could go wrong?"

No, you haven't totally rewritten anything, except maybe your own 
memory of how you magically improve anything you touch.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From jidanni at jidanni.org  Sat Jan 19 07:51:42 2008
From: jidanni at jidanni.org (jidanni at jidanni.org)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 14:51:42 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] translate strings, not whole templates
Message-ID: <87lk6m1f5t.fsf@jidanni.org>

What you currently have now is each translator not only responsible
for translating message strings -- but also faithfully reproducing the
whole HTML structure of the English version -- intact.

E.g., we run a random template through a HTML validator and see
end tag for "TABLE" omitted, but its declaration does not permit this
start tag was here
end tag for "CENTER" omitted, but its declaration does not permit this
start tag was here
end tag for element "CENTER" which is not open
end tag for element "TD" which is not open
end tag for element "TR" which is not open
end tag for element "TABLE" which is not open

Which means it is just lucky if the page displays as you intend it.

Also we see there even is the bin/transcheck command, to measure
aspects of the seriousness of the problem.

So I would advise before calling for help translating, first relieve
each translator from the task of keeping the HTML house of cards
intact. Don't require them also to be a HTML expert. Just use one
English template, and substitute strings into that.
Site customization of any page of course would still be possible.

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=1861600&group_id=103&atid=100103

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Jan 19 08:14:34 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 01:14:34 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] translate strings, not whole templates
In-Reply-To: <87lk6m1f5t.fsf@jidanni.org>
References: <87lk6m1f5t.fsf@jidanni.org>
Message-ID: <p06240800c3b74fb147e9@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/19/08, jidanni at jidanni.org wrote:

>  So I would advise before calling for help translating, first relieve
>  each translator from the task of keeping the HTML house of cards
>  intact. Don't require them also to be a HTML expert. Just use one
>  English template, and substitute strings into that.

That's a nice idea.


Of course, Mailman is an open source project that is 100% volunteer 
supported in our non-existent free time, and we have very limited 
resources for development.  If you've spent any time on the Mailman 
pages at SourceForge, then you've seen all the hundreds of patches, 
requests for enhancement, etc... that have been filed.

If you took a look at the current Mailman 2.1.10 beta code and 
compared that to earlier versions, you would see how much has changed 
over the years since the 2.1.* tree was first branched.  And you 
would also see what kind of superhuman effort is put forth by people 
like Mark Sapiro, Tokio Kikuchi, Barry Warsaw and so many others.

If you took a look at the Mailman wiki, you would get a chance to get 
some sort of idea what the long-term roadmap is for Mailman 2.2.x, 
2.3.x, and even the mythical Mailman3, although because this is a 
100% volunteer supported project and all the principals have real 
jobs that they have to pay full-time attention to in order to put 
food on the table, there can never be any kind of firm timetable for 
when any of the proposed features may actually be delivered.


If you have useful code to contribute, we welcome that.  If you have 
useful translation experience to provide, we gladly welcome that.  If 
you have thousands or millions of dollars to donate to the project so 
that we can pay people to work full time on development for Mailman, 
we will be very glad to welcome that.

Otherwise, you're welcome to file your RFEs and get in line with everyone else.


You appear to have some knowledge of HTML, so you could at least file 
updated translations with appropriate templates and HTML structure, 
while we wait for whatever code improvements may be necessary so that 
the translation process is made easier and less error-prone.

Ask not what the Mailman project can do for you.  Ask what you can do 
for the Mailman project.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From andrew at ado.is-a-geek.net  Sat Jan 19 14:09:26 2008
From: andrew at ado.is-a-geek.net (Andrew Oakley)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:09:26 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Different web interface and email address domains
	with POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
Message-ID: <4791F686.4040808@ado.is-a-geek.net>

I'm trying to set up a list "list at domain.com", but I want the web
interface to appear at http://sub.domain.com/mailman/.... I have set
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ["domain.com"] in my mm_cfg.py, but I
can't spot a way to set the web interface location.

With the current setup http://sub.domain.com/mailman/... does show the
interface, but all the links in it point to http://domain.com/mailman/....

Any ideas would be appreciated.

As a side note, the mailman guide doesn't seem to say that the
virtual-mailman file isn't created until you have a list set up, which
was somewhat confusing.

Cheers,
	Andrew Oakley

From andrew at ado.is-a-geek.net  Sat Jan 19 16:14:35 2008
From: andrew at ado.is-a-geek.net (Andrew Oakley)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:14:35 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Different web interface and email address
 domains with POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
In-Reply-To: <4791F686.4040808@ado.is-a-geek.net>
References: <4791F686.4040808@ado.is-a-geek.net>
Message-ID: <479213DB.1040808@ado.is-a-geek.net>

Never mind, I've fixed it.  It seems you need to run:
newlist --urlhost=sub.domain.com --emailhost=domain.com list-name
when you create the list and it works.

Seems this option isn't available in the web interface though.

Andrew Oakley wrote:
> I'm trying to set up a list "list at domain.com", but I want the web
> interface to appear at http://sub.domain.com/mailman/.... I have set
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ["domain.com"] in my mm_cfg.py, but I
> can't spot a way to set the web interface location.
> 
> With the current setup http://sub.domain.com/mailman/... does show the
> interface, but all the links in it point to http://domain.com/mailman/....
> 
> Any ideas would be appreciated.
> 
> As a side note, the mailman guide doesn't seem to say that the
> virtual-mailman file isn't created until you have a list set up, which
> was somewhat confusing.
> 
> Cheers,
> 	Andrew Oakley
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/andrew%40ado.is-a-geek.net
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From barry at list.org  Sat Jan 19 16:36:22 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 10:36:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] translate strings, not whole templates
In-Reply-To: <87lk6m1f5t.fsf@jidanni.org>
References: <87lk6m1f5t.fsf@jidanni.org>
Message-ID: <B4A043E0-880A-43BC-9D65-32DE388FC7A7@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Jan 19, 2008, at 1:51 AM, jidanni at jidanni.org wrote:

> What you currently have now is each translator not only responsible
> for translating message strings -- but also faithfully reproducing the
> whole HTML structure of the English version -- intact.
>
> E.g., we run a random template through a HTML validator and see
> end tag for "TABLE" omitted, but its declaration does not permit this
> start tag was here
> end tag for "CENTER" omitted, but its declaration does not permit this
> start tag was here
> end tag for element "CENTER" which is not open
> end tag for element "TD" which is not open
> end tag for element "TR" which is not open
> end tag for element "TABLE" which is not open
>
> Which means it is just lucky if the page displays as you intend it.
>
> Also we see there even is the bin/transcheck command, to measure
> aspects of the seriousness of the problem.
>
> So I would advise before calling for help translating, first relieve
> each translator from the task of keeping the HTML house of cards
> intact. Don't require them also to be a HTML expert. Just use one
> English template, and substitute strings into that.
> Site customization of any page of course would still be possible.

This thread should move to mailman-developers, but here's my take on  
things.  First, we completely agree with you. :)

The plan is to adopt a new templating system for Mailman 2.2 and 3.0.   
We'll use the same one for both, the main difference between that  
Mailman 2.2 intends to /only/ update the web u/i while Mailman 3 is a  
fairly significant redesign intended to back Mailman with an object- 
relational mapper tied to a relational database.

There are many Python-based templating systems out there.  The primary  
requirement for Mailman 3 is good i18n support so that we can do  
exactly what you describe.  I want to be able to write the templates  
once for all languages, do source string extraction and merge that  
into the standard catalogs, then use the normal translation services  
to render language-specific web pages.  We have not made a decision on  
which templating system to use yet.

If you're interesting in helping out with this effort, please join  
mailman-developers.

- -Barry

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=WmJV
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From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Sat Jan 19 19:46:57 2008
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 18:46:57 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mass subscribe
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3122.1200690381.894.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.3122.1200690381.894.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <BLU130-W38C8D55E5E192562A057E7FB430@phx.gbl>


 
hi, 
 
I have a dedicated server with cent-OS .. I access my mailman using:
 
http://www.mydoman.com/mailman/admin/listname
 
based on the message below, a nice fellow answered my questions by: path-to-mailman/bin/....
 
now I browsed my server using SSH but couldn't find the path to mailman anywhere, I automatically installed it using the control panel of my server.. but I don't know where I can find the path to mailman and the bin directory in it to run the commands! could anyone please help me?
 
here's my previous message and the answer of the nice guy:
 
> dear mailman guys,> > 2 things ..> > 1- is there a way to mass-subscribe users through sending a command by email to the list without the administritive interface? because I keep getting an 'Internal server error' message
 > 2- I've been trying to get a list of users to my email using the 'who password' command.. but it keeps giving me only 2500 addresses instead of the 75000+ emails in my list .. what to do about it?> > your help is highly appreciated ..>  /path-to-mailman/bin/sync_members [options] -f filename listname /path-to-mailman/bin/list_members listname
 
 
 
_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail?-get your "fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx

From tmz at pobox.com  Sat Jan 19 19:59:37 2008
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:59:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mass subscribe
In-Reply-To: <BLU130-W38C8D55E5E192562A057E7FB430@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.3122.1200690381.894.mailman-users@python.org>
	<BLU130-W38C8D55E5E192562A057E7FB430@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20080119185937.GP3136@inocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Khalil Abbas wrote:
> I have a dedicated server with cent-OS .. I access my mailman using:
> 
> http://www.mydoman.com/mailman/admin/listname
> 
> based on the message below, a nice fellow answered my questions by:
> path-to-mailman/bin/....
> 
> now I browsed my server using SSH but couldn't find the path to
> mailman anywhere, I automatically installed it using the control
> panel of my server.. but I don't know where I can find the path to
> mailman and the bin directory in it to run the commands! could
> anyone please help me?

You could find where mailman is installed in various ways, depending
on how your "control panel" installed it.  Some options you have
include:

- use the locate or find commands to search for sync-members
- use rpm to query for the list of files in the mailman package (if
  your control panel installed mailman via an rpm
- try ~mailman/bin, as the bin dir is typically in the mailman users
  home directory

There are surely other ways to find this.  In the end, you really need
to be more familiar with your OS and how the software on it is
installed.

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The race for quality has no finish line- so technically, it's more
like a death march. 
    -- Demotivators (www.despair.com)

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From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Sat Jan 19 20:11:18 2008
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:11:18 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] run mailman commands..
In-Reply-To: <mailman.26.1200740408.13705.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.26.1200740408.13705.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <BLU130-W36314D527F2BED4EA923BFFB430@phx.gbl>


hello all..
 
I have a dedicated server with CentOS installed.. I need to perform some mailman commands without going thru the administrative interface that doesn't work due to an 'internal server error' message..
 
now mailman commands are installed here:
 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin
 
for example I need to run the ' list_members listname' command but it keeps telling me that this is not a command.. although I logged in as 'root' not as the regular user name ..
 
can you please write the exact syntax that allows me to put the members of a list called "dailymail" (without the quotes)in a text file using the list_members command?
 
I also would really appreciate the exact syntax of the command that allows me to mass-subscribe the emails in a text file and adding them to same list called "dailymail"? .. and also the syntax that removes a bunch of emails in a text file from the list ..
 
I'm no linux programmer or something, do I need to put a certian thingy before each command to run? like "run list_members" or should I use some kind of code, in other words, what is the exact syntax or way that allows me to do the tasks above?
 
thanks a million..
 
 
_________________________________________________________________
Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser!
http://biggestloser.msn.com/

From subscribed-lists at sterndata.com  Sat Jan 19 20:41:08 2008
From: subscribed-lists at sterndata.com (Steven Stern)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:41:08 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] run mailman commands..
In-Reply-To: <BLU130-W36314D527F2BED4EA923BFFB430@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.26.1200740408.13705.mailman-users@python.org>
	<BLU130-W36314D527F2BED4EA923BFFB430@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <47925254.1070603@sterndata.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01/19/2008 01:11 PM, Khalil Abbas wrote:
| hello all..
|
| I have a dedicated server with CentOS installed.. I need to perform
some mailman commands without going thru the administrative interface
that doesn't work due to an 'internal server error' message..
|
| now mailman commands are installed here:
|
| /usr/lib/mailman/bin
|
| for example I need to run the ' list_members listname' command but it
keeps telling me that this is not a command.. although I logged in as
'root' not as the regular user name ..
|
| can you please write the exact syntax that allows me to put the
members of a list called "dailymail" (without the quotes)in a text file
using the list_members command?
|
| I also would really appreciate the exact syntax of the command that
allows me to mass-subscribe the emails in a text file and adding them to
same list called "dailymail"? .. and also the syntax that removes a
bunch of emails in a text file from the list ..
|

I prefer to use sync_members rather than remove_members and add_members.
~ With sync_members you need only keep the list of who should be on the
list.  When you run it, mailman will remove those currently on the list
who are not in your file and add those from the file who are not on the
list.  This works well when using a separate system to keep track of
subscriptions or generating your subscription list from some other database.

In this example, you'd create a file called dailylist-members.txt that
contains the list of email addresses that should be on the list.

I'd recommend the following command:

~   /usr/lib/mailman/bin/sync_members -g=no -w=no -a=no -f
dailymail-members.txt dailymail



For full usage info, use /usr/lib/mailman/bin/sync_members -h


- --

~  Steve
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jan 19 21:18:13 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 12:18:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Different web interface and email address
 domains with POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
In-Reply-To: <479213DB.1040808@ado.is-a-geek.net>
References: <4791F686.4040808@ado.is-a-geek.net>
	<479213DB.1040808@ado.is-a-geek.net>
Message-ID: <47925B05.6000709@msapiro.net>

Andrew Oakley wrote:
> Never mind, I've fixed it.  It seems you need to run:
> newlist --urlhost=sub.domain.com --emailhost=domain.com list-name
> when you create the list and it works.


What you really want is

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'sub.domain.com'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'domain.com'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

in mm_cfg.py. This will remove whatever was added by the
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) in Defaults.py and
set the correct defaults for list creation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jidanni at jidanni.org  Sun Jan 20 07:07:30 2008
From: jidanni at jidanni.org (jidanni at jidanni.org)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:07:30 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] translate strings, not whole templates
References: <B4A043E0-880A-43BC-9D65-32DE388FC7A7@list.org>
Message-ID: <87ve5pc9nh.fsf@jidanni.org>

BW> If you're interesting in helping out with this effort, please join
BW> mailman-developers.
Unfortunately all the development I can do (on Dreamhost) is pasting
into the edithtml.cgi window, and no matter how much I do I still
can't remove imbalanced tags from parts of mailman I have no access
to. So all I can say is is it is not good to have 13 buttons on one
language's template, and 24 on another, and it is not good to send
forth electric blender output style HTML tags options which don't
match Wilbur or other known versions. I mean maybe a script kiddie
will take advantage of the highly invalid HTML you fellows are pumping
into the world. So my contribution for 2008 is: "remember to validate".

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Jan 20 08:27:45 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 01:27:45 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] translate strings, not whole templates
In-Reply-To: <87ve5pc9nh.fsf@jidanni.org>
References: <B4A043E0-880A-43BC-9D65-32DE388FC7A7@list.org>
	<87ve5pc9nh.fsf@jidanni.org>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3b8a806fc94@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/20/08, jidanni at jidanni.org wrote:

>  Unfortunately all the development I can do (on Dreamhost) is pasting
>  into the edithtml.cgi window, and no matter how much I do I still
>  can't remove imbalanced tags from parts of mailman I have no access
>  to.

That may be the only public place you've got Mailman installed, but 
it should be trivially easy for someone of your skill to install 
Mailman locally on your desktop and then do further development and 
translation work there.

No one needs to be able to access the site from the outside world -- 
you just need to be able to see that the changes you've made have had 
the proper effect, and then you can contribute your changes to the 
project.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Jan 20 09:13:31 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 02:13:31 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] translate strings, not whole templates
In-Reply-To: <87ve5pc9nh.fsf@jidanni.org>
References: <B4A043E0-880A-43BC-9D65-32DE388FC7A7@list.org>
	<87ve5pc9nh.fsf@jidanni.org>
Message-ID: <p06240808c3b8b30a919e@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/20/08, jidanni at jidanni.org wrote:

>  Unfortunately all the development I can do (on Dreamhost) is pasting
>  into the edithtml.cgi window, and no matter how much I do I still
>  can't remove imbalanced tags from parts of mailman I have no access
>  to.

Oh, and if you're going to be involved in translations, the best 
place to start is 
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Internationalization>.  You'll be 
guided to the mailman-i18n mailing list, the list of current language 
champions, etc....

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From cpenn at srcc.lsu.edu  Mon Jan 21 08:08:35 2008
From: cpenn at srcc.lsu.edu (Chris Penn)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 01:08:35 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ERROR: "You must supply a valid email address."?
Message-ID: <45874.72.207.210.28.1200899315.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>

I have setup a qmailtoaster that is very similar to this setup
http://wiki.qmailtoaster.com/index.p...oaster_Install
I have compiled and installed Mailman on the machine into
/home/mailman/mydomain/

My mailserver is mail.mydomain.com.  The mailman url path is
mail.mydomain.com/mailman.
I have a virtual domain mail server setup running on a mysql backend.
I have mailman setup recieve and sending email for mydomain.com.  The
problem I am having is with the Subscriptions.  I can use add_member for a
list, but when i try a subscription with the webpage I get this error:
"You must supply a valid email address."

Im not sure what I am doing wrong here.

Thanks,

Chris Penn...

-- 
Sourthern Regional Climate Center
Louisiana State University
Howe-Russell Geoscience Complex
Office E330
Office:225.590.5847

" A Mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems." -Erd?s,
Paul
Nov. 1992


From henzef at uni-hildesheim.de  Mon Jan 21 11:24:28 2008
From: henzef at uni-hildesheim.de (henzef at uni-hildesheim.de)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:24:28 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installation problem - Korean module
Message-ID: <52503.147.172.30.50.1200911068.squirrel@webmail.uni-hildesheim.de>

Hello,

i have got an old, but special problem with the installation of mailman. I
found older mails on this list of it, but there was no solution for. I
tried to install the mailman on the uni server with Solaris 10 and the
recommended python 2.4.4. After configure, make, make install I receive
the following error

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "bin/update", line 46, in ?
import paths
File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/paths.py", line 60, in ?
import korean
ImportError: No module named korean
gmake: *** [update] Error 1

How can I fix it? The python libs for Korean should be included in python
versions since 2.4 and I also try to manually install the cjkcodecs for
python, without any success. Does someone has an idea? I heard of an fixed
makefile, but do not know where to get.

Another way is deactivating the korean module. Is that possible? I do not
found anything in the documentation. Any command or so.

The older discussion can be found here:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-September/058397.html

I am looking forward to hear from you.


From cpenn at srcc.lsu.edu  Mon Jan 21 12:56:07 2008
From: cpenn at srcc.lsu.edu (Chris Penn)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 05:56:07 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Different web interface and email address
 domains with POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
In-Reply-To: <4791F686.4040808@ado.is-a-geek.net>
References: <4791F686.4040808@ado.is-a-geek.net>
Message-ID: <33122.72.207.210.28.1200916567.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>

I put this into the apache conf file(/etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf or you can
create /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf and restart apache)
########################
#
#  httpd configuration settings for use with mailman.
#

ScriptAlias /mailman/ /home/mailman/domain/cgi-bin/
<Directory /home/mailman/domain/cgi-bin/>
    AllowOverride None
    Options ExecCGI
    AuthType Basic
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>


Alias /pipermail/ /home/mailman/domain/archives/public/
<Directory /home/mailman/domain/archives/public>
    Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
    AllowOverride None
    AuthType Basic
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

# Uncomment the following line, replacing www.example.com with your server's
# name, to redirect queries to /mailman to the listinfo page (recommended).

 RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ http://sub.domain.com/mailman/listinfo
#################


Also, in mm_cfg.py I used this for virtual domains...

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'domain.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'sub.domain.com'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

Note: I am not able to subscribe via the web page at the moment, so this
might not be perfect. I am still waiting for an email about my
subscription problem.  But everything else seems to work with virtual
domains.

Chris...

> I'm trying to set up a list "list at domain.com", but I want the web
> interface to appear at http://sub.domain.com/mailman/.... I have set
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ["domain.com"] in my mm_cfg.py, but I
> can't spot a way to set the web interface location.
>
> With the current setup http://sub.domain.com/mailman/... does show the
> interface, but all the links in it point to http://domain.com/mailman/....
>
> Any ideas would be appreciated.
>
> As a side note, the mailman guide doesn't seem to say that the
> virtual-mailman file isn't created until you have a list set up, which
> was somewhat confusing.
>
> Cheers,
> 	Andrew Oakley
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cpenn%40srcc.lsu.edu
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


-- 
Sourthern Regional Climate Center
Louisiana State University
Howe-Russell Geoscience Complex
Office E330
Office:225.590.5847
Cell:949.300.3094

" A Mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems." -Erd?s,
Paul
Nov. 1992


From vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in  Mon Jan 21 14:22:29 2008
From: vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in (Vinita Aggarwal)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:52:29 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Office in New Delhi needs urgent help to
	re-stabilize our mailing list
In-Reply-To: <33122.72.207.210.28.1200916567.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>
Message-ID: <200801211326.m0LDQXbB011532@smtp.undp.org>

Hi,

We have been a major Mailman mail list user (12,000 members; 100
messages/day) using a version (2.1.5) installed by a consultant two years
ago.   We were lucky until about a month ago when the server went down, and
major problems have been cropping up ever since.  Many members have stopped
receiving mails, and the server has continued to crash intermittently.  

We are getting very concerned about our continued operation.  Is anyone on
this list located in New Delhi India with all-purpose expertise on Mailman
who is immediately available to examine our code and do what is needed to
get our system stable again?

If so, please e-mail me at vinita.aggarwal at un.org.in  with your contacts,
credentials and rates. 

Thanks, 

Vinita Aggarwal


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.7/1232 - Release Date: 1/18/2008
7:32 PM
 



From floeff at arcor.de  Mon Jan 21 12:20:33 2008
From: floeff at arcor.de (Florian Effenberger)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 12:20:33 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail converts @ to at
Message-ID: <29756517.1200914433003.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail14>

Hi there,

pipermail converts @ to at in it's archives. I have disabled it for the sender of a message, but it seems to be non-configurable for the message body.

Is there any option I missed?

Thanks
Florian

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From audit at c2security.org  Mon Jan 21 16:27:00 2008
From: audit at c2security.org (audit)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 10:27:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] After Installing Virtual Hosts with mailman,
 regular aliases quit working.
Message-ID: <4794B9C4.60005@c2security.org>

Here's my output from postconf -n

alias_database = hash:/usr/local/etc/postfix/aliases
alias_maps = hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
command_directory = /usr/local/sbin
config_directory = /usr/local/etc/postfix
daemon_directory = /usr/local/libexec/postfix
debug_peer_level = 2
disable_vrfy_command = yes
html_directory = no
in_flow_delay = 3s
inet_interfaces = all
local_destination_concurrency_limit = 1
mail_owner = postfix
mailbox_command = /usr/local/bin/procmail -Y -a $DOMAIN
mailq_path = /usr/local/bin/mailq
manpage_directory = /usr/local/man
message_size_limit = 22528000
mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost, $mydomain,
mydomain = example.org
myhostname = flatlined.example.org
mynetworks = 216.2.209.0/28, 127.0.0.0/8, 10.2.1.0/24 12.104.180.101/32
mynetworks_style = host
myorigin = $mydomain
newaliases_path = /usr/local/bin/newaliases
owner_request_special = no
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
readme_directory = no
recipient_delimiter = +
sample_directory = /usr/local/etc/postfix
sendmail_path = /usr/local/sbin/sendmail
setgid_group = maildrop
smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name
smtpd_client_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, check_client_access 
hash:/usr/local/etc/postfix/junk, reject_rbl_client zen.spamhaus.org, 
reject_rbl_client virbl.dnsbl.bit.nl, reject_multi_recipient_bounce, 
reject_unauth_pipelining, reject_rhsbl_sender dsn.rfc-ignorant.org, 
reject_rbl_client list.dsbl.org, reject_rbl_client combined.njabl.org, 
reject_rbl_client bhnc.njabl.org, reject_rbl_client dnsbl.ahbl.org
smtpd_data_restrictions = reject_unauth_pipelining, permit
smtpd_helo_required = yes
smtpd_helo_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, reject_unauth_pipelining, 
permit
smtpd_sender_restrictions = hash:/usr/local/etc/postfix/junk, 
reject_unknown_sender_domain, reject_non_fqdn_sender, 
reject_unlisted_sender, reject_unauth_pipelining
strict_rfc821_envelopes = yes
transport_maps = hash:/usr/local/etc/postfix/transport
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
virtual_alias_maps = hash:/usr/local/etc/postfix/virtual
virtual_mailbox_base = /var/mail
virtual_mailbox_domains = /usr/local/etc/postfix/virtual_domains

Problem is, anything that I had in my /usr/local/etc/postfix/aliases 
file that wasn't the standard root, bin, postmaster, etc won't work. I 
get the error Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local 
recipient table

I used the regular domain on the server for personal usage and had a lot 
of aliases in there for mail lists. Now non of the aliases work.

Thanks




From tmz at pobox.com  Mon Jan 21 17:01:42 2008
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:01:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] After Installing Virtual Hosts with mailman,
	regular aliases quit working.
In-Reply-To: <4794B9C4.60005@c2security.org>
References: <4794B9C4.60005@c2security.org>
Message-ID: <20080121160142.GU3136@inocybe.teonanacatl.org>

audit wrote:
> Here's my output from postconf -n
> 
> alias_database = hash:/usr/local/etc/postfix/aliases
> alias_maps = hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
[...]
> Problem is, anything that I had in my /usr/local/etc/postfix/aliases 
> file that wasn't the standard root, bin, postmaster, etc won't work. I 
> get the error Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local 
> recipient table

You need to have your normal postfix aliases in alias_maps in addition
to the mailman aliases file.  The install guide[1] gives an example:

    alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases,
        hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

[1] http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node13.html

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now there's no more Oak oppression, for they passed a noble law.
And the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, axe, and saw...

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From myron at cs.moravian.edu  Mon Jan 21 18:25:50 2008
From: myron at cs.moravian.edu (Myron Kowalski)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 12:25:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] start script started reporting errors
Message-ID: <C98AEC4F-4460-47B1-B89D-02C900037A35@cs.moravian.edu>

I created a list that I wanted confirmation on. When I tested it, I  
didn't get anything.
After poking around, I found that parts of mailman seemed to have stop  
working
last week. I can't seem to remember doing anything that would have  
cause this, but
nonetheless something happened.

The qfiles/virigin has a thousand messages that aren't going away. And  
when I
start mailman by hand I get the following errors that repeat 4 or 5  
times.
 From these errors, can anybody guess as to what may have happened?

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/users/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
     main()
   File "/users/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
     qrunner.run()
   File "/users/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 65, in run
     filecnt = self._oneloop()
   File "/users/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 93, in _oneloop
     msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
   File "/users/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 156, in  
dequeue
     data = self._ext_read(dbfile)
   File "/users/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 262, in  
_ext_read
     dict = marshal.load(fp)
ValueError: bad marshal data
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/users/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
     main()
and so on....
  
--myron
=================================
Myron Kowalski
MoCoSIN Network/Systems Administrator
Moravian College
myron at cs.moravian.edu




From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Mon Jan 21 20:04:18 2008
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:04:18 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installation problem - Korean module
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'henzef@uni-hildesheim.de'
	dated: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:24:28 +0100 (CET)
Message-ID: <200801211904.m0LJ4I0P010804@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

henzef at uni-hildesheim.de wrote:

>Hello,
>
>i have got an old, but special problem with the installation of mailman. I
>found older mails on this list of it, but there was no solution for. I
>tried to install the mailman on the uni server with Solaris 10 and the
>recommended python 2.4.4. After configure, make, make install I receive
>the following error
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>File "bin/update", line 46, in ?
>import paths
>File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/paths.py", line 60, in ?
>import korean
>ImportError: No module named korean
>gmake: *** [update] Error 1
>
>How can I fix it? The python libs for Korean should be included in python
>versions since 2.4 and I also try to manually install the cjkcodecs for
>python, without any success. Does someone has an idea? I heard of an fixed
>makefile, but do not know where to get.
>
>Another way is deactivating the korean module. Is that possible? I do not
>found anything in the documentation. Any command or so.
>
>The older discussion can be found here:
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-September/058397.html
>
>I am looking forward to hear from you.

In my Ubuntu 2.1.9 system I have

     katydid% ls -al /var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/korean
     total 92
     drwxrwsr-x 5 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 .
     drwxrwsr-x 6 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 ..
     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list 1595 2002-07-18 19:01 aliases.py
     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list  772 2007-02-16 09:13 aliases.pyc
     drwxrwsr-x 2 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 c
     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list  976 2002-07-18 19:01 cp949.py
     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list  299 2007-02-16 09:13 cp949.pyc
     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list  979 2002-07-18 19:01 euc_kr.py
     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list  302 2007-02-16 09:13 euc_kr.pyc
     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list  967 2002-07-18 19:01 hangul.py
     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list  274 2007-02-16 09:13 hangul.pyc
     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list  882 2002-07-18 19:01 __init__.py
     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list  186 2007-02-16 09:13 __init__.pyc
     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list  994 2002-07-18 19:01 iso_2022_kr.py
     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list  317 2007-02-16 09:13 iso_2022_kr.pyc
     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list  976 2002-07-18 19:01 johab.py
     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list  299 2007-02-16 09:13 johab.pyc
     drwxrwsr-x 2 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 mappings
     drwxrwsr-x 2 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 python
     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list  991 2002-07-18 19:01 qwerty2bul.py
     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list  314 2007-02-16 09:13 qwerty2bul.pyc
     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list  985 2002-07-18 19:01 unijohab.py
     -rw-r--r-- 1 root list  308 2007-02-16 09:13 unijohab.pyc
     katydid% 

I know that in Ubuntu/Debian packages this pythonlib has been deleted
(in error) due to a problem that one person had in the past.
I built my Ubuntu package from the Mailman-supplied 2.1.9 source,
so I have this library on my system.  Is this pythonlib library on
your system?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From dandrews at visi.com  Mon Jan 21 19:27:32 2008
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 12:27:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages Appearing Twice
Message-ID: <auto-000034012581@mailfront1.g2host.com>

Hi:

The text of messages is appearing twice in the digests for some of my 
lists.  There will be the normal digest stuff, then the first message 
with headers etc., then it will say
next part

then the body of the message will app3ear again.  My digest type is 
set to Plain.

Is this related to processing of html messages or something?  What can I do?

Dave


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Jan 21 20:24:05 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:24:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail converts @ to at
In-Reply-To: <29756517.1200914433003.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail14>
References: <29756517.1200914433003.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail14>
Message-ID: <p06240804c3baa18c78da@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/21/08, Florian Effenberger wrote:

>  pipermail converts @ to at in it's archives. I have disabled it for the
>  sender of a message, but it seems to be non-configurable for the 
>message body.

Try turning off address obfuscation.

Of course, then what you've done is to provide an archive of known 
valid e-mail addresses which spammers can make good use of, so you'll 
want to make sure that your archives are private and that your list 
is not advertised.  Otherwise, you've just opened up all the posters 
to your list to getting even more spam than they do already.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Jan 21 20:58:29 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:58:29 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages Appearing Twice
In-Reply-To: <auto-000034012581@mailfront1.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000034012581@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <p06240807c3baa9384555@[192.168.1.101]>

On 1/21/08, David Andrews wrote:

>  The text of messages is appearing twice in the digests for some of my
>  lists.  There will be the normal digest stuff, then the first message
>  with headers etc., then it will say
>  next part

One problem I've seen is that the folks at Gmane.org provide an 
internal mail/news gateway service for many mailing lists, and if 
someone posts through Gmane.org using a newsreader that also sends 
out a copy of the message by e-mail, then you'll see two copies of 
those messages -- one directly from the poster, one via the gateway 
at Gmane.org.

This is another reason why I believe Gmane should be terminated with 
extreme prejudice.

However, this is not the only type of message duplication that can 
occur.  You really need to take a look at the raw archives for the 
list and compare & contrast the respective "Received:" headers of the 
duplicate messages.  With luck, it won't be too hard to figure out 
where the duplication is occurring.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From floeff at arcor.de  Mon Jan 21 21:23:52 2008
From: floeff at arcor.de (Florian Effenberger)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:23:52 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail converts @ to at
In-Reply-To: <p06240804c3baa18c78da@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <29756517.1200914433003.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail14>
	<p06240804c3baa18c78da@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <4794FF58.90503@arcor.de>

Hi,

> Try turning off address obfuscation.

this doesn't seem to affect the message body, only the message headers. :-(

Florian

From cpenn at srcc.lsu.edu  Mon Jan 21 22:07:01 2008
From: cpenn at srcc.lsu.edu (Chris Penn)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:07:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ERROR: "You must supply a valid email address."?
In-Reply-To: <45874.72.207.210.28.1200899315.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>
References: <45874.72.207.210.28.1200899315.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>
Message-ID: <56630.72.207.210.28.1200949621.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>

I have googled this question and there is only one suggestion on WLUG on
the web:
http://www.wlug.org.nz/MailManNotes

This issue seems to be the only thing not working at the moment and it
does not show up in the FAQs.  What does it mean when I subscribe someone
through the webpage and get this:

"You must supply a valid email address."

Also, none of the changes made over the site work, but I am able to change
things via terminal.

Thanks,

Chris Penn.


> I have setup a qmailtoaster that is very similar to this setup
> http://wiki.qmailtoaster.com/index.p...oaster_Install
> I have compiled and installed Mailman on the machine into
> /home/mailman/mydomain/
>
> My mailserver is mail.mydomain.com.  The mailman url path is
> mail.mydomain.com/mailman.
> I have a virtual domain mail server setup running on a mysql backend.
> I have mailman setup recieve and sending email for mydomain.com.  The
> problem I am having is with the Subscriptions.  I can use add_member for a
> list, but when i try a subscription with the webpage I get this error:
> "You must supply a valid email address."
>
> Im not sure what I am doing wrong here.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris Penn...
>
> --
> Sourthern Regional Climate Center
> Louisiana State University
> Howe-Russell Geoscience Complex
> Office E330
> Office:225.590.5847
>
> " A Mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems." -Erd?s,
> Paul
> Nov. 1992
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cpenn%40srcc.lsu.edu
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


-- 
Sourthern Regional Climate Center
Louisiana State University
Howe-Russell Geoscience Complex
Office E330
Office:225.590.5847
Cell:949.300.3094

" A Mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems." -Erd?s,
Paul
Nov. 1992


From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Mon Jan 21 22:44:35 2008
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:44:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ghost Moderator Requests
Message-ID: <20080121214513.7AEFB1E4019@bag.python.org>

I have a strange problem. I am getting a daily message from one of my 
mailing lists telling me I have 95 moderator requests pending. 
However, when I go to the administrator page for that mailing list it 
tells me there are no outstanding requests. Does anyone have any 
ideas what it happening? TIA.

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From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Jan 21 23:18:51 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:18:51 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ERROR: "You must supply a valid email address."?
In-Reply-To: <56630.72.207.210.28.1200949621.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>
References: <45874.72.207.210.28.1200899315.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>
	<56630.72.207.210.28.1200949621.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>
Message-ID: <87myqyddpw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Chris Penn writes:

 > I have googled this question and there is only one suggestion on WLUG on
 > the web:
 > http://www.wlug.org.nz/MailManNotes
 > 
 > This issue seems to be the only thing not working at the moment and it
 > does not show up in the FAQs.  What does it mean when I subscribe someone
 > through the webpage and get this:
 > 
 > "You must supply a valid email address."

Mailman claims that the address you provided violates the standard set
by RFC 2822.  You are probably using incorrect syntax in some way.
The only way we can help you is if you post the address(es) mailman is
complaining about so that we can tell you how to format them
acceptably.



From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jan 21 23:52:35 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:52:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ERROR: "You must supply a valid email address."?
In-Reply-To: <56630.72.207.210.28.1200949621.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>
References: <45874.72.207.210.28.1200899315.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>
	<56630.72.207.210.28.1200949621.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>
Message-ID: <47952233.5030601@msapiro.net>

Chris Penn wrote:
> I have googled this question and there is only one suggestion on WLUG on
> the web:
> http://www.wlug.org.nz/MailManNotes


That may be relevant, but I'm not sure about the 'fix'. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>


> This issue seems to be the only thing not working at the moment and it
> does not show up in the FAQs.  What does it mean when I subscribe someone
> through the webpage and get this:
> 
> "You must supply a valid email address."
> 
> Also, none of the changes made over the site work, but I am able to change
> things via terminal.


This is the same issue. Due to a redirect or something else, probably in
your web server configuration, you are losing the POST data from all
your web transactions.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jan 21 23:06:24 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:06:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail converts @ to at
In-Reply-To: <4794FF58.90503@arcor.de>
References: <29756517.1200914433003.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail14>	<p06240804c3baa18c78da@[192.168.1.101]>
	<4794FF58.90503@arcor.de>
Message-ID: <47951760.2060806@msapiro.net>

Florian Effenberger wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>> Try turning off address obfuscation.
> 
> this doesn't seem to affect the message body, only the message headers. :-(


What Mailman version is this? Both body and headers should be
controlloed by ARCHIVER_OBSCURES_EMAILADDRS in mm_cfg.py, but note that
this will not affect messages which are already archived. Changing it
will only affect new messages unless you rebuild the archive with bin/arch.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jan 21 23:27:48 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:27:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] start script started reporting errors
In-Reply-To: <C98AEC4F-4460-47B1-B89D-02C900037A35@cs.moravian.edu>
References: <C98AEC4F-4460-47B1-B89D-02C900037A35@cs.moravian.edu>
Message-ID: <47951C64.2030404@msapiro.net>

Myron Kowalski wrote:
> 
> The qfiles/virigin has a thousand messages that aren't going away. And  
> when I
> start mailman by hand I get the following errors that repeat 4 or 5  
> times.
>  From these errors, can anybody guess as to what may have happened?
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "/users/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
>      main()
>    File "/users/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
>      qrunner.run()
>    File "/users/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 65, in run
>      filecnt = self._oneloop()
>    File "/users/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 93, in _oneloop
>      msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>    File "/users/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 156, in  
> dequeue
>      data = self._ext_read(dbfile)
>    File "/users/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 262, in  
> _ext_read
>      dict = marshal.load(fp)
> ValueError: bad marshal data
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "/users/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
>      main()
> and so on....


This appears to be Mailman 2.1.4 or earlier.

The issue appears to be a corrupt .db file in qfiles/virgin/.

Each queue entry is a pair of files with the same name except one has a
.db extension and the other has .pck or possibly .msg extension.

The rest of the file name is a floating point time (ttttt.ttt) followed
by '+' followed by 40 hex digits.

The file causing the problem is the .db with the earliest time. Move
that file aside and stop and start Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jan 21 23:41:30 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:41:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages Appearing Twice
In-Reply-To: <auto-000034012581@mailfront1.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000034012581@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <47951F9A.2050100@msapiro.net>

David Andrews wrote:
> 
> The text of messages is appearing twice in the digests for some of my 
> lists.  There will be the normal digest stuff, then the first message 
> with headers etc., then it will say
> next part
> 
> then the body of the message will app3ear again.  My digest type is 
> set to Plain.
> 
> Is this related to processing of html messages or something?  What can I do?


>From your description above, I believe you are seeing both the
text/plain and text/html parts of a multipart/alternative message. There
are several ways to deal with this.

1)If you have a good, MIME aware MUA, set your digest type to MIME.

2)Train list posters to post only plain text (generally not possible,
but see <http://www.expita.com/nomime.html>).

3) Set the list's filter_content to Yes and either put things like

multipart
message/rfc822
text/plain

and not

text/html

in pass_mime_types, or if you want to accept HTML only messages, set
collapse_alternatives to Yes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 22 00:10:52 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:10:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ghost Moderator Requests
In-Reply-To: <20080121214513.7AEFB1E4019@bag.python.org>
References: <20080121214513.7AEFB1E4019@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <4795267C.9020908@msapiro.net>

Dennis Putnam wrote:
> I have a strange problem. I am getting a daily message from one of my
> mailing lists telling me I have 95 moderator requests pending. However,
> when I go to the administrator page for that mailing list it tells me
> there are no outstanding requests. Does anyone have any ideas what it
> happening? TIA.


Somewhere, there is another test/backup/incompletely deleted/whatever
Mailman installation that is sending these. Check the Received: headers
of the message to see at which server it originates and then

 find / -name config.pck -print

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From myron at cs.moravian.edu  Tue Jan 22 14:13:02 2008
From: myron at cs.moravian.edu (Myron Kowalski)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:13:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] start script started reporting errors
In-Reply-To: <47951C64.2030404@msapiro.net>
References: <C98AEC4F-4460-47B1-B89D-02C900037A35@cs.moravian.edu>
	<47951C64.2030404@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <5D1B2967-7F1B-449C-A279-C315C962AA8A@cs.moravian.edu>

Thanks. I just figured that out. I was doing a few things with mailman  
at the same time that message
must of come in, and I became convinced that I had done something  
wrong. I just didn't read the python
errors carefully enough.

--myron
=================================
Myron Kowalski
MoCoSIN Network/Systems Administrator
Moravian College
myron at cs.moravian.edu



On Jan 21, 2008, at 5:27 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Myron Kowalski wrote:
>>
>> The qfiles/virigin has a thousand messages that aren't going away.  
>> And
>> when I
>> start mailman by hand I get the following errors that repeat 4 or 5
>> times.
>> From these errors, can anybody guess as to what may have happened?
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/users/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
>>     main()
>>   File "/users/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
>>     qrunner.run()
>>   File "/users/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 65, in run
>>     filecnt = self._oneloop()
>>   File "/users/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 93, in _oneloop
>>     msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>>   File "/users/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 156, in
>> dequeue
>>     data = self._ext_read(dbfile)
>>   File "/users/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 262, in
>> _ext_read
>>     dict = marshal.load(fp)
>> ValueError: bad marshal data
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/users/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
>>     main()
>> and so on....
>
>
> This appears to be Mailman 2.1.4 or earlier.
>
> The issue appears to be a corrupt .db file in qfiles/virgin/.
>
> Each queue entry is a pair of files with the same name except one  
> has a
> .db extension and the other has .pck or possibly .msg extension.
>
> The rest of the file name is a floating point time (ttttt.ttt)  
> followed
> by '+' followed by 40 hex digits.
>
> The file causing the problem is the .db with the earliest time. Move
> that file aside and stop and start Mailman.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>


From du at bestwaytech.com  Tue Jan 22 19:26:56 2008
From: du at bestwaytech.com (Danila Ulyanov)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:26:56 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot accept or reject messages as moderator
In-Reply-To: <47912FD4.2000207@msapiro.net>
References: <4790FF3A.9020004@bestwaytech.com> <47912FD4.2000207@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <47963570.80005@bestwaytech.com>

Unfortunately this is not the error I am getting. It does not keep 
re-asking me for password and there were no web server changes.

I also tried looking at 
http://non-gnu.uvt.nl/repos/mailman-ssls/mailman-ssls/doc/secure-list-patch.pod 
instructions on how to debug, but they were utterly confusing.

Any other suggestions on what I can try?

Thanks!

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Danila Ulyanov wrote:
>> When going to "pending moderator requests" and attempting to do anything 
>> with a pending request, nothing happens. Accept, reject, etc. - just 
>> refreshes screen as if nothing happened after clicking Submit.
>>
>> The log files show nothing, no errors on screen. This started happening 
>> after one of the regular system updates that updated a bunch of perl 
>> packages that may have been related, but there were no errors.
> 
> 
> See <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>.
> 

From bga at altlinux.org  Tue Jan 22 19:57:07 2008
From: bga at altlinux.org (Grigory Batalov)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:57:07 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot accept or reject messages as moderator
In-Reply-To: <47963570.80005@bestwaytech.com>
References: <4790FF3A.9020004@bestwaytech.com> <47912FD4.2000207@msapiro.net>
	<47963570.80005@bestwaytech.com>
Message-ID: <20080122215707.199073ba.bga@altlinux.org>

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:26:56 -0600, Danila Ulyanov wrote:

> Unfortunately this is not the error I am getting. It does not keep 
> re-asking me for password and there were no web server changes.
> 
> I also tried looking at 
> http://non-gnu.uvt.nl/repos/mailman-ssls/mailman-ssls/doc/secure-list-patch.pod 
> instructions on how to debug, but they were utterly confusing.
> 
> Any other suggestions on what I can try?

  You can try "Live HTTP headers" Firefox plugin to see what really
  happens on HTTP level. Maybe there is something interesting?

> >> When going to "pending moderator requests" and attempting to do anything 
> >> with a pending request, nothing happens. Accept, reject, etc. - just 
> >> refreshes screen as if nothing happened after clicking Submit.
> >>
> >> The log files show nothing, no errors on screen. This started happening 
> >> after one of the regular system updates that updated a bunch of perl 
> >> packages that may have been related, but there were no errors.
> > 
> > 
> > See <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>.

-- 
 Grigory Batalov,
 ALT Linux Team
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From cpenn at srcc.lsu.edu  Tue Jan 22 20:16:29 2008
From: cpenn at srcc.lsu.edu (Chris Penn)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:16:29 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ERROR: "You must supply a valid email address."?
In-Reply-To: <47952233.5030601@msapiro.net>
References: <45874.72.207.210.28.1200899315.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>
	<56630.72.207.210.28.1200949621.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>
	<47952233.5030601@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <40945.130.39.188.233.1201029389.squirrel@seistan.srcc.lsu.edu>

That was it.
I took the redirects out apache conf and things are fine now.

Thanks,
chris penn

> Chris Penn wrote:
>> I have googled this question and there is only one suggestion on WLUG on
>> the web:
>> http://www.wlug.org.nz/MailManNotes
>
>
> That may be relevant, but I'm not sure about the 'fix'. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>
>
>
>> This issue seems to be the only thing not working at the moment and it
>> does not show up in the FAQs.  What does it mean when I subscribe
>> someone
>> through the webpage and get this:
>>
>> "You must supply a valid email address."
>>
>> Also, none of the changes made over the site work, but I am able to
>> change
>> things via terminal.
>
>
> This is the same issue. Due to a redirect or something else, probably in
> your web server configuration, you are losing the POST data from all
> your web transactions.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>


-- 
Sourthern Regional Climate Center
Louisiana State University
Howe-Russell Geoscience Complex
Office E330
Office:225.590.5847
Cell:949.300.3094

" A Mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems." -Erd?s,
Paul
Nov. 1992


From joyce.dowling at comcast.net  Tue Jan 22 20:47:08 2008
From: joyce.dowling at comcast.net (Joyce Dowling)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:47:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie with recurring frustrations!
Message-ID: <a06240804c3bbf7439397@[192.168.1.54]>

I'm not new to Mailman, just this listserv. I've used it for years 
with an organization that has good support with few problems. I just 
moved a site to a server that used to have decent support, but now 
apparently doesn't. I put in numerous tickets - sometimes saying they 
fixed it & recently no response at all.

I set up the listservs last month (5 of them that used to be on 
Majordomo). They worked at first, but since then I have intermitten 
problems with them not working ever since. But not working, I mean 
messages to the lists don't post. I have no idea where they go, but 
this is from various users. Also the "-owner" email addresses from 
all of the lists have never worked & I've sent out numerous test 
messages - they're supposed to come to me and another list admin, bu 
they never show up.

I have access to the admin area and ftp, but not root and I'm not a 
techie. Is there anything I can do besides give up and move to 
another server?

-- 
Joyce Dowling http://uu-mom.livejournal.com/
Helping to create beloved community (see 10 min. video): 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wezp1W2HKlU

From floeff at arcor.de  Tue Jan 22 21:01:18 2008
From: floeff at arcor.de (Florian Effenberger)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:01:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail converts @ to at
In-Reply-To: <47951760.2060806@msapiro.net>
References: <29756517.1200914433003.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail14>	<p06240804c3baa18c78da@[192.168.1.101]>
	<4794FF58.90503@arcor.de> <47951760.2060806@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <47964B8E.8090702@arcor.de>

Hi,

> What Mailman version is this? Both body and headers should be
> controlloed by ARCHIVER_OBSCURES_EMAILADDRS in mm_cfg.py, but note that
> this will not affect messages which are already archived. Changing it
> will only affect new messages unless you rebuild the archive with bin/arch.

thanks for the tip - seems to work now!

Florian

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 22 21:54:22 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:54:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot accept or reject messages as moderator
In-Reply-To: <47963570.80005@bestwaytech.com>
References: <4790FF3A.9020004@bestwaytech.com> <47912FD4.2000207@msapiro.net>
	<47963570.80005@bestwaytech.com>
Message-ID: <479657FE.3050204@msapiro.net>

Danila Ulyanov wrote:
> Unfortunately this is not the error I am getting. It does not keep
> re-asking me for password and there were no web server changes.


Despite the title, FAQ 4.45 addresses situations where constant
re-authorization is not required.


> I also tried looking at
> http://non-gnu.uvt.nl/repos/mailman-ssls/mailman-ssls/doc/secure-list-patch.pod
> instructions on how to debug, but they were utterly confusing.


Are you using ssl?


> Any other suggestions on what I can try?


Look for errors in Mailman's error log. Also view the source html of the
admindb page and see if the POST URL on the page is the same as the URL
in the address bar of the browser.

Also, does this problem occur only in the admindb interface, or also in
the admin interface?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brian at emwd.com  Tue Jan 22 22:47:19 2008
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:47:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie with recurring frustrations!
In-Reply-To: <a06240804c3bbf7439397@[192.168.1.54]>
References: <a06240804c3bbf7439397@[192.168.1.54]>
Message-ID: <012b01c85d40$627c69f0$27753dd0$@com>

Hi Joyce:

My recommendation is to move to another mailman provider. You can check out
our mailman service at http://www.emwd.com/mailman.html.

I guarantee you will not receive that type of shoddy mailman support from
us!

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Joyce
Dowling
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 2:47 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie with recurring frustrations!

I'm not new to Mailman, just this listserv. I've used it for years 
with an organization that has good support with few problems. I just 
moved a site to a server that used to have decent support, but now 
apparently doesn't. I put in numerous tickets - sometimes saying they 
fixed it & recently no response at all.

I set up the listservs last month (5 of them that used to be on 
Majordomo). They worked at first, but since then I have intermitten 
problems with them not working ever since. But not working, I mean 
messages to the lists don't post. I have no idea where they go, but 
this is from various users. Also the "-owner" email addresses from 
all of the lists have never worked & I've sent out numerous test 
messages - they're supposed to come to me and another list admin, bu 
they never show up.

I have access to the admin area and ftp, but not root and I'm not a 
techie. Is there anything I can do besides give up and move to 
another server?

-- 
Joyce Dowling http://uu-mom.livejournal.com/
Helping to create beloved community (see 10 min. video): 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wezp1W2HKlU
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brian%40emwd.com

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From herman at farpoint.nl  Tue Jan 22 23:55:15 2008
From: herman at farpoint.nl (H.F. Harperink)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:55:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mixed up languages
Message-ID: <47967453.1040306@farpoint.nl>

Hi,

I've pulled my hairs out, stripped the internet and looked into every 
corner I could find, but I found nothing on my problem, let alone a 
sollution to it.

I use mailman 2.1.5 on Ubuntu 6.06 Dapper and maintain two lists. One in 
English, one in German. I tried to update mailman but 2.1.5 seems to be 
the latest for Dapper.
Anyway, the admin interface functions with those to languages, though 
not everything is translated to German. NOT a problem, I speak both.
But when Germans want to signup to the German list they get confirmation 
mails in English though I've set the list to German (the admin interface 
is German).
For the Dutch this aint a problem, they al speak English.

Am I doing something wrong here, or is this a typical Mailman problem. I 
could find nothing about this anywhere, not even the sourceforge buglist.
If I could I would translate the needed files myself, but that does not 
seem te be easy to implement myself on the mailman installation.

Please advice.

Regards,
 Herman
 
And please excuse me if I overlooked that one corner which holds the 
answer to the problem, other than this mailinglist.

From matt at ideashop.com  Wed Jan 23 05:47:31 2008
From: matt at ideashop.com (Matthew Farr)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:47:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with a mailman list setup
Message-ID: <D9B661F22A4B43FA8B802B086734B39C@mattfarrPC>

Hi there,

I'm a web site designer and programmer, with a limited understanding of
shell access. 

I tried to set up a new list today, here:
http://tlca.org/mailman/listinfo/risingsun

However, no one can send mail to the list. It bounces back with:
This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification
Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:
    risingsun at tlca.org
Technical details of permanent failure:
PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 13): 550 <risingsun at tlca.org>: Recipient
address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table

>From looking at the documentation, it looks like I need to configure
Postfix, and maybe a virtual domain file? I'm at a loss. If anyone is
willing to help, I do take direction well. Where do I start?

TIA,
Matt

---------------------
Matt Farr
Idea Shop Inc.
Centennial, CO 80122
matt at ideashop.com
www.ideashop.com
---------------------




From jon.slater at mesanetworks.net  Wed Jan 23 06:29:46 2008
From: jon.slater at mesanetworks.net (Jon Slater)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:29:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Specify URL's in confirmation e-mail?
Message-ID: <067f01c85d80$f71cdc80$e5569580$@slater@mesanetworks.net>

Hi,

 

I run multiple virtual domains from my server.  For example:
firstdomain.com   seconddomain.org   thirddomain.com

 

But my server's 'real' name is:   myserver.com

 

So, of course, in my mm_cfg.py I have:

 

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = "www.myserver.com"

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = "myserver.com"

 

When someone signs-up for "members at firstdomain.com", or
"board at seconddomain.org" the confirmation e-mail says (paraphrased):

     To confirm, simply reply to this message w/ subject intact, or visit
this webpage: 
 
http://www.myserver.com/mailman/confirm/members/02349f9a809d0863879cb3242348
79

 

 

First, I get it...  I understand where the "www.myserver.com" is coming
from.  But is there a way, when someone signs-up for a firstdomain.com
mailing list, that the e-mail say
"http://www.firstdomain.com/mailman/confirm/members/4712...09847"?

 

All of my domains 'work'.  That is, I can access mailman web pages using any
of my domain names, and if I cut-n-paste the URL above and replace the
'myserver.com' with 'firstdomain.com' (or 'seconddomain.org'), the
registration still confirms.

 

 


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.9/1237 - Release Date: 1/22/2008
11:04 AM
 

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Jan 23 06:33:38 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:33:38 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with a mailman list setup
In-Reply-To: <D9B661F22A4B43FA8B802B086734B39C@mattfarrPC>
References: <D9B661F22A4B43FA8B802B086734B39C@mattfarrPC>
Message-ID: <p06240802c3bc81c3d81c@[128.62.235.110]>

On 1/22/08, Matthew Farr wrote:

>  From looking at the documentation, it looks like I need to configure
>  Postfix, and maybe a virtual domain file? I'm at a loss. If anyone is
>  willing to help, I do take direction well. Where do I start?

The Mailman documentation is available under 
<http://www.list.org/docs.html>.  From the sound of it, you need to 
start with the Site Administrator documentation, particularly section 
6.1 at <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Jan 23 06:38:01 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:38:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mixed up languages
In-Reply-To: <47967453.1040306@farpoint.nl>
References: <47967453.1040306@farpoint.nl>
Message-ID: <p06240803c3bc823cf44d@[128.62.235.110]>

On 1/22/08, H.F. Harperink wrote:

>  I use mailman 2.1.5 on Ubuntu 6.06 Dapper and maintain two lists. One in
>  English, one in German. I tried to update mailman but 2.1.5 seems to be
>  the latest for Dapper.

In most cases, we suggest that you install Mailman from our source 
tarballs as available from <http://www.list.org/download.html>, as 
opposed to using a binary package version developed by someone else. 
This is particularly important when talking about the latest binary 
package version for a particular platform being very old.

>  Am I doing something wrong here, or is this a typical Mailman problem. I
>  could find nothing about this anywhere, not even the sourceforge buglist.
>  If I could I would translate the needed files myself, but that does not
>  seem te be easy to implement myself on the mailman installation.

It sounds to me like the version you have installed does not have a 
complete translation included for supporting German.

I haven't heard any complaints like this regarding 2.1.5 in the past, 
so I would suspect that this may be a problem that is specific to 
your binary packaged version -- if you were to install the same 
version from our tarballs, that might work.

OTOH, this might be a problem specific to version 2.1.5 that we have 
corrected in the years since, and you might need to install a more 
recent version from our source tarballs.  We're up to version 2.1.9 
now, with 2.1.10 in late beta (awaiting completion of translation to 
the many different languages we support).


Either way, I'd suggest installing from the source tarballs to see if 
that fixes the problems.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Jan 23 06:39:05 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:39:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie with recurring frustrations!
In-Reply-To: <a06240804c3bbf7439397@[192.168.1.54]>
References: <a06240804c3bbf7439397@[192.168.1.54]>
Message-ID: <p06240804c3bc834f34ce@[128.62.235.110]>

On 1/22/08, Joyce Dowling wrote:

>  I set up the listservs last month (5 of them that used to be on
>  Majordomo). They worked at first, but since then I have intermitten
>  problems with them not working ever since. But not working, I mean
>  messages to the lists don't post. I have no idea where they go, but
>  this is from various users. Also the "-owner" email addresses from
>  all of the lists have never worked & I've sent out numerous test
>  messages - they're supposed to come to me and another list admin, bu
>  they never show up.

These are problems that can only be resolved by your site 
administrator.  If they are not being responsive to you, then I'd 
suggest that you might want to find a different hosting provider/site 
administrator.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From joyce.dowling at comcast.net  Wed Jan 23 07:19:28 2008
From: joyce.dowling at comcast.net (Joyce Dowling)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 06:19:28 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie with recurring frustrations!
Message-ID: <012320080619.25353.4796DC700009B38E0000630922058844840902070499010BD20A0C970106@comcast.net>

We just purchased this service in Nov. I don't know how I'd get my money back. There are so many services out there; how can one tell if a hosting provider is a good one? I did get recommendations on this one and there were good reviews. I had other sites on this server, too, and only recently am I experiencing this kind of problem. I know I need to move, though, because they answered my ticket saying it was fixed again this evening and my test messages from 45 mins. ago haven't come through yet. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
> On 1/22/08, Joyce Dowling wrote:
> 
> >  I set up the listservs last month (5 of them that used to be on
> >  Majordomo). They worked at first, but since then I have intermitten
> >  problems with them not working ever since. But not working, I mean
> >  messages to the lists don't post. I have no idea where they go, but
> >  this is from various users. Also the "-owner" email addresses from
> >  all of the lists have never worked & I've sent out numerous test
> >  messages - they're supposed to come to me and another list admin, bu
> >  they never show up.
> 
> These are problems that can only be resolved by your site 
> administrator.  If they are not being responsive to you, then I'd 
> suggest that you might want to find a different hosting provider/site 
> administrator.
> 
> -- 
> Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>


From joakim at nomell.se  Wed Jan 23 11:50:27 2008
From: joakim at nomell.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Joakim_N=F6mell?=)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 11:50:27 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change -owner addresses
In-Reply-To: <478FD99E.1060000@msapiro.net>
References: <alpine.DEB.0.99.0801172118150.2013@merope.webworld.se>
	<478FD99E.1060000@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.0.99.0801231149430.12858@merope.webworld.se>

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Joakim N?mell wrote:
>> Hi all. I have just upgraded my system to MM 2.1.9 and wonder if it is
>> possible to change the -owner-addresses to something else?
>
>
> It may or may not be easy. At a minimum, you'd need to change
>
>    def GetOwnerEmail(self):
>        return self.getListAddress('owner')
>
> in Mailman/MailList.py to
>
>    def GetOwnerEmail(self):
>        return self.getListAddress('somethingelse')
>
> And also change the -owner aliases. I can't promise there aren't other
> places where the -owner address is generated.

OK, I'm using exim so there are no aliases, just a router & a transport to 
mailman. I will give this a try.

-- 
__________________________________________________________________
Joakim N?mell     Tel  : 070 771 31 00     MSN  : joakim at nomell.nu
Unix engineer                              Web  : http://nomell.se
------------------------------------------------------------------

From joakim at nomell.se  Wed Jan 23 11:51:46 2008
From: joakim at nomell.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Joakim_N=F6mell?=)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 11:51:46 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change -owner addresses
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c3b599c92fd4@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <alpine.DEB.0.99.0801172118150.2013@merope.webworld.se>
	<p06240802c3b599c92fd4@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.0.99.0801231150300.12858@merope.webworld.se>

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, Brad Knowles wrote:

> On 1/17/08, Joakim N?mell wrote:
>
>>  Hi all. I have just upgraded my system to MM 2.1.9 and wonder if it is
>>  possible to change the -owner-addresses to something else? The reason is
>>  that we receive a lot of spam after 3 years use. We already have
>>  spam-filters.
>
> Go to the main web admin page for your list, type in a different address in 
> the second field, the one for the listowner address(es), then hit the "Submit 
> Your Changes" button at the bottom of the page.  It's pretty simple.

Sounds easy, but what happends with the old list-owner-adress for this 
list? I guess it still goes to admin or does it generate a user unknown if 
I change this address? I want to generate user unknown for the -owner 
aliases so they don't go into the system at all.

-- 
__________________________________________________________________
Joakim N?mell     Tel  : 070 771 31 00     MSN  : joakim at nomell.nu
Unix engineer                              Web  : http://nomell.se
------------------------------------------------------------------

From joakim at nomell.se  Wed Jan 23 12:20:47 2008
From: joakim at nomell.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Joakim_N=F6mell?=)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:20:47 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change -owner addresses
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.0.99.0801231149430.12858@merope.webworld.se>
References: <alpine.DEB.0.99.0801172118150.2013@merope.webworld.se>
	<478FD99E.1060000@msapiro.net>
	<alpine.DEB.0.99.0801231149430.12858@merope.webworld.se>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.0.99.0801231216460.12858@merope.webworld.se>

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008, Joakim N?mell wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Joakim N?mell wrote:
>>> Hi all. I have just upgraded my system to MM 2.1.9 and wonder if it is
>>> possible to change the -owner-addresses to something else?
>>
>>
>> It may or may not be easy. At a minimum, you'd need to change
>>
>>    def GetOwnerEmail(self):
>>        return self.getListAddress('owner')
>>
>> in Mailman/MailList.py to
>>
>>    def GetOwnerEmail(self):
>>        return self.getListAddress('somethingelse')
>>
>> And also change the -owner aliases. I can't promise there aren't other
>> places where the -owner address is generated.
>
> OK, I'm using exim so there are no aliases, just a router & a transport to
> mailman. I will give this a try.

Hi again. I changed it to "own" instead of "owner". I also changed -owner 
to -own in the mailman-router in my exim4.conf-file. But after restarting 
exim4 and mailman I got:

   lekstugan-own at smartlist.nu
     local delivery failed

But the owner addresses are only used for external people to contact the 
list owners, right? We are not using these adresses. So if this doesn't 
generates any problems for mailman, I can just change -owner in my 
mm-router in exim4.conf to something else? Mailman sends out some 
administravie mails from list-owner-address but this should work anyway I 
guess?

-- 
__________________________________________________________________
Joakim N?mell     Tel  : 070 771 31 00     MSN  : joakim at nomell.nu
Unix engineer                              Web  : http://nomell.se
------------------------------------------------------------------

From ippaso at trashmail.net  Wed Jan 23 13:28:25 2008
From: ippaso at trashmail.net (SP)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:28:25 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing qrunner stops working and outgoing mails
	get stuck
Message-ID: <479732E9.2070807@trashmail.net>

Hi everybody.

Since a couple of months I have started having some problems with
mailman. Sometimes it stops sending out e-mail: outgoing messages get
stuck in ~/qfiles/out.

The qrunner for outgoing mail is up and running, but it simply does not
process the messages in the queue. Restarting mailman, or simply sending
a SIGHUP at the Outgoing qrunner solves the problem: immediately mailman
starts handling the messages in the queue and processes *all of them*
without any problem.

And then, after some time (sometimes a week, sometimes a couple of days)
again it stops.

I checked the mailman logs, but I can't find any error or any message
that can help debugging the problem...

I am running mailman 2.1.9 on Fedora, with qmail as MTA and python 2.4.3.

I have really drained all my ideas... any suggestion, of any kind will
be appreciated!

Thank you,

Paso


From Brandon at WRWeb.net  Wed Jan 23 15:52:54 2008
From: Brandon at WRWeb.net (Brandon Sussman)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:52:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (OT) Newbie with recurring frustrations!
In-Reply-To: <012320080619.25353.4796DC700009B38E0000630922058844840902070499010BD20A0C970106@comcast.net>
References: <012320080619.25353.4796DC700009B38E0000630922058844840902070499010BD20A0C970106@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <479754C6.9060802@WRWeb.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Joyce Dowling wrote:

I sympathize.  The variations are endless.  I had to find a new one just
because my most favorite doesn't use Mailman and I needed it for a
couple of clients.

| We just purchased this service in Nov. I don't know how I'd get my
| There are so many services out there; how can one tell if a
| hosting provider is a good one?

Personal referral from folks who are doing what you want to do is fairly
reliable - as a person involved with IT things, cultivate a network of
people who have like interests, needs and abilities.

| I did get recommendations on this one and there were good reviews.

I have found that one has to go a level deeper into reviews than seems
needed.  The highest rated lists never seem to include my favorites :)

Were the recommendations specific regarding Mailman support?

| I had other sites on this server, too, and
| only recently am I experiencing this kind of problem. I know I need to
| move, though, because they answered my ticket saying it was fixed again
| this evening and my test messages from 45 mins. ago haven't come through
| yet. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I have had good luck so far with Dreamhost's Mailman support - they have
some folks who seem to care and know Mailman fairly well.

- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
| WRWeb Services                   |           http://WRWeb.net |
| 1482 Pleasant St.                |              (603)648-2595 |
| Webster, NH, 03303-7613          |            19TBJ8040800540 |
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
| Web Sites Designed and Supported |Think Locally, Buy Locally! |
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iQEVAwUBR5dUxtN2DJl/zagkAQLtugf/VkPLwbLJfTcnHMTg2Ht3w0K6z8QA3CG1
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From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Jan 23 18:06:17 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 02:06:17 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing qrunner stops working and outgoing
	mails	get stuck
In-Reply-To: <479732E9.2070807@trashmail.net>
References: <479732E9.2070807@trashmail.net>
Message-ID: <87abmwpj3q.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

SP writes:

 > I checked the mailman logs, but I can't find any error or any message
 > that can help debugging the problem...

Find the last few logs from Mailman and the MTA before the stoppage.
This may give experts some clue.  (If I knew what to tell you to look
for, I would, but experts often can see things that we can't. :)

 > I am running mailman 2.1.9 on Fedora, with qmail as MTA and python 2.4.3.

Is that Mailman locally built from source, or from the Fedora
distribution?  If it's from RPMs, you may want to try building from
source, which is the most-tested, best-understood configuration.  You
also might want to use a different MTA, unless you're a genuine qmail
expert yourself.  Or you might try RPMs for the various components
from RHEL (if you can get them) or CentOS.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Jan 23 18:14:02 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 02:14:02 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (OT) Newbie with recurring frustrations!
In-Reply-To: <479754C6.9060802@WRWeb.net>
References: <012320080619.25353.4796DC700009B38E0000630922058844840902070499010BD20A0C970106@comcast.net>
	<479754C6.9060802@WRWeb.net>
Message-ID: <878x2gpiqt.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brandon Sussman writes:

 > I have had good luck so far with Dreamhost's Mailman support - they have
 > some folks who seem to care and know Mailman fairly well.

That's interesting, considering that there was some hair-pulling over
on mailman-devel about possible problems with Dreamhost.  (Totally
unsupported by facts, I'll add; the poster just wanted to justify a
hare-brained scheme with claims that his hosting service, which was a
birthday present or something, *might be* unreliable.)


From ippaso at trashmail.net  Wed Jan 23 19:22:49 2008
From: ippaso at trashmail.net (SP)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:22:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing qrunner stops working and outgoing
 mails get stuck
In-Reply-To: <87abmwpj3q.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <479732E9.2070807@trashmail.net>
	<87abmwpj3q.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <479785F9.6050806@trashmail.net>

Stephen J. Turnbull ha scritto:

> Find the last few logs from Mailman and the MTA before the stoppage.
> This may give experts some clue.  (If I knew what to tell you to look
> for, I would, but experts often can see things that we can't. :)

Good suggestion: I have to wait for the problem to appear again, but as
soon as it jumps out I will post here the logs... the only problem is
that in fact I don't know exactly when the runner stops working: I
can only check the oldest message in the outgoing queue and conclude
that mailman get stuck *earlier* than the time of that message (and, of
course, after the last correctly sent message, but my lists are all low
traffic lists, so the gap may be quite big...)

> Is that Mailman locally built from source, or from the Fedora
> distribution?  

It is built from source; the only customization was that I added a patch
for the script to be executed by users from different groups.

But the odd thing is that the mailman installation worked for long
time (about one year...) without any problem (with qmail as MTA), and
suddenly some months ago it simply started this strange behavior. No
major updates of the software had been done when the problem arose for
the first time.

Thank you, bye,

Paso








From joyce.dowling at comcast.net  Wed Jan 23 20:50:28 2008
From: joyce.dowling at comcast.net (Joyce Dowling)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:50:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (OT) Newbie with recurring frustrations!
In-Reply-To: <479754C6.9060802@WRWeb.net>
References: <012320080619.25353.4796DC700009B38E0000630922058844840902070499010BD20A0C
	970106@comcast.net> <479754C6.9060802@WRWeb.net>
Message-ID: <a0624081ec3bd4a12fd1e@[192.168.1.54]>

At 9:52 AM -0500 1/23/08, Brandon Sussman wrote:
>Were the recommendations specific regarding Mailman support?

Who knew that Mailman support would be an issue?! Besides listservs, 
I need cpanel, message boards, drupal, and who knows what else! I 
help several non-profits & small businesses with their sites, but 
this one seems to want everything, though their budget isn't huge and 
they're non-profit. Since they can't afford a web site manager, I 
thought web based tools would be best and then train volunteers to 
edit the site.

-- 
Joyce Dowling http://uu-mom.livejournal.com/
Helping to create beloved community (see 10 min. video): 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wezp1W2HKlU

From brian at emwd.com  Wed Jan 23 21:06:36 2008
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:06:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (OT) Newbie with recurring frustrations!
In-Reply-To: <a0624081ec3bd4a12fd1e@[192.168.1.54]>
References: <012320080619.25353.4796DC700009B38E0000630922058844840902070499010BD20A0C	970106@comcast.net>
	<479754C6.9060802@WRWeb.net> <a0624081ec3bd4a12fd1e@[192.168.1.54]>
Message-ID: <013b01c85dfb$7ce02d20$76a08760$@com>

Actually bad support for mailman is a common problem among web hosts. Since
mailman comes package along with cpanel and other popular hosting control
panels, many web hosts freely advertise it with their services without
having the knowledge of runnning a reliable mailman server. Even large hosts
such as Bluehost is not immune from this since we have received a number of
former clients in the past several months from them over bad support of
their mailman service.

BTW -- we offer all of those services that your client needs and provide the
support for them. Just contact me and I am sure we can work something out.

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'


-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Joyce
Dowling
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 2:50 PM
To: Brandon Sussman
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] (OT) Newbie with recurring frustrations!

At 9:52 AM -0500 1/23/08, Brandon Sussman wrote:
>Were the recommendations specific regarding Mailman support?

Who knew that Mailman support would be an issue?! Besides listservs, 
I need cpanel, message boards, drupal, and who knows what else! I 
help several non-profits & small businesses with their sites, but 
this one seems to want everything, though their budget isn't huge and 
they're non-profit. Since they can't afford a web site manager, I 
thought web based tools would be best and then train volunteers to 
edit the site.

-- 
Joyce Dowling http://uu-mom.livejournal.com/
Helping to create beloved community (see 10 min. video): 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wezp1W2HKlU
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brian%40emwd.com

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From Tim.Bell at Sun.COM  Wed Jan 23 21:25:40 2008
From: Tim.Bell at Sun.COM (Tim Bell)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:25:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing qrunner stops working and outgoing
 mails get stuck
In-Reply-To: <479785F9.6050806@trashmail.net>
References: <479732E9.2070807@trashmail.net>
	<87abmwpj3q.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<479785F9.6050806@trashmail.net>
Message-ID: <4797A2C4.1070901@sun.com>

SP wrote:

> Good suggestion: I have to wait for the problem to appear again, but as
> soon as it jumps out I will post here the logs... the only problem is
> that in fact I don't know exactly when the runner stops working: I
> can only check the oldest message in the outgoing queue and conclude
> that mailman get stuck *earlier* than the time of that message (and, of
> course, after the last correctly sent message, but my lists are all low
> traffic lists, so the gap may be quite big...)

The first thing I did when I got mailman set up was to create a private test list so I could 
send as many test emails as I pleased without bothering anyone on the real lists.  I still use 
it from time to time.  Would you be able to create a test list and push some extra emails 
through to boost the load on mailman?  It should help you reproduce the problem sooner.

HTH - Tim

From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 23 22:41:11 2008
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:41:11 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] two mailman installations..
In-Reply-To: <mailman.18.1200999607.24975.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.18.1200999607.24975.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <BLU130-W17BEBA859973F960BF3680FB3F0@phx.gbl>


Dear mailman guys..
 
I have a cent-os dedicated server with godaddy and is hosting my daily newsletter list on it .. my subscrier list has grown to over 77,000 and is growing rapidly that I will have to purchase another server in order to deliver the newsletter in the same day.. because godaddy's policy allows each dedicated server to send the maximum of 100,000 emails per day.. 
 
the question is, is there a way to prevent duplicate subscriptions? because people subscribe to my newsletter by email sent to me, then I collect all the emails and use the mass-subscribe option in the web interface.. and some subscribers may exist in the first server and not in the second one so that they will recieve the same email twice.. 
 
any ideas how to avoid duplicate subscriptions in different servers?
 
thanks..
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan 23 22:14:49 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:14:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Specify URL's in confirmation e-mail?
In-Reply-To: <067f01c85d80$f71cdc80$e5569580$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
References: <067f01c85d80$f71cdc80$e5569580$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
Message-ID: <4797AE49.6020908@msapiro.net>

Jon Slater wrote:
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = "www.myserver.com"
> 
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = "myserver.com"


You also want

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

if you don't have it and then

add_virtulahost('www.firstdomain.con', 'firstdomain.com')
add_virtulahost('www.seconddomain.con', 'seconddomain.com')
etc.


Then restart mailman, and finally run fix_url to fix your lists. E.g.

cd ~mailman
bin/withlist -l -r fix_url members -u firstdomain.com
bin/withlist -l -r fix_url board -u seconddomain.com
etc.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan 23 22:34:35 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:34:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change -owner addresses
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.0.99.0801231216460.12858@merope.webworld.se>
References: <alpine.DEB.0.99.0801172118150.2013@merope.webworld.se>
	<478FD99E.1060000@msapiro.net>
	<alpine.DEB.0.99.0801231149430.12858@merope.webworld.se>
	<alpine.DEB.0.99.0801231216460.12858@merope.webworld.se>
Message-ID: <4797B2EB.3060601@msapiro.net>

Joakim N?mell wrote:
> 
> Hi again. I changed it to "own" instead of "owner". I also changed
> -owner to -own in the mailman-router in my exim4.conf-file. But after
> restarting exim4 and mailman I got:
> 
>   lekstugan-own at smartlist.nu
>     local delivery failed


I don't know why.  If you have something like the following for your
mailman router

mailman_router:
  driver = accept
  domains = +mm_domains
  require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
  local_part_suffix_optional
  local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
                      -confirm : -confirm+* : \
                      -join : -leave : \
                      -subscribe : -unsubscribe : \
                      -owner : -request : -admin
  transport = mailman_transport

and it worked before, I think changing '-owner' to '-own' in
local_part_suffix is all you need to do.


> But the owner addresses are only used for external people to contact the
> list owners, right? We are not using these adresses. So if this doesn't
> generates any problems for mailman, I can just change -owner in my
> mm-router in exim4.conf to something else? Mailman sends out some
> administravie mails from list-owner-address but this should work anyway
> I guess?


Mailman also sends some administrivia notices TO listname-owner and then
receives and resends them to the owner and moderator addresses, but changing

   def GetOwnerEmail(self):
       return self.getListAddress('owner')

in Mailman/MailList.py to

   def GetOwnerEmail(self):
       return self.getListAddress('own')

should take care of all of that (I think).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mailman at veggiechinese.net  Wed Jan 23 22:43:38 2008
From: mailman at veggiechinese.net (William Yardley)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:43:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (OT) Newbie with recurring frustrations!
In-Reply-To: <878x2gpiqt.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <012320080619.25353.4796DC700009B38E0000630922058844840902070499010BD20A0C970106@comcast.net>
	<479754C6.9060802@WRWeb.net>
	<878x2gpiqt.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20080123214338.GD24971@mitch.veggiechinese.net>

On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 02:14:02AM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Brandon Sussman writes:

> > I have had good luck so far with Dreamhost's Mailman support - they
> > have some folks who seem to care and know Mailman fairly well.

> That's interesting, considering that there was some hair-pulling over
> on mailman-devel about possible problems with Dreamhost.  (Totally
> unsupported by facts, I'll add; the poster just wanted to justify a
> hare-brained scheme with claims that his hosting service, which was a
> birthday present or something, *might be* unreliable.)

I used to work there and was somewhat involved with the early mailman
implementations there.... I'll say a few things:

1) Virtual domains are (AFAIK) still supported with lists being named
listname-example.com at lists.example.com - even if you alias
listname at example.com or something to it, you can't fully get rid of the
slightly ugly addresses. That's mostly due to limitations of Mailman (at
least at the time we implemented things, though there may be some
creative ways to get this to work now).

2) Since Mailman is hosted on central machines, and isn't one install
per account, there's no easy way to give users direct access to command
line commands, though I think their support team will be pretty
responsive for occasional or one-time requests to do stuff on users'
behalf.

3) Since Mailman is a shared service, there's obviously a limit to the
size of list that can reasonably be handled on this type of service,
though there aren't any hard limits that I know of, and I believe some
very large lists are being hosted here.

4) I will agree that they have some staff who know Mailman pretty well.
I don't know who all is working on it now, but I do know that one of the
founders, Dallas, has done a lot of work with the Mailman implementation
there, and I believe at least one other developer they have there is
also doing a good amount of work with supporting their Mailman installs.
Overall, they've got a very smart bunch of people.

5) DH has grown a lot in the past 3-4 years, and definitely there are
some technically-savvy folks who aren't always able to get the same
level of support they used to get. That said, I think they are better
than many / most hosts out there, and do have pretty good support for
hosting Mailman lists. Whatever one can say about the reliabilty of
their hosting services (and there are a range of opinions here), I think
the Mailman service should be pretty robust and reliable.

(Side note to the person who was posting about a non-profit - DH does
have a 90 day guarantee and *free* hosting for non-profits with
501(c)(3) or tax exempt non-profit status, so maybe at least worth a
try. Saying this as a former employee with no financial interest in the
company.)

w


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan 23 23:09:32 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:09:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Specify URL's in confirmation e-mail?
In-Reply-To: <4797AE49.6020908@msapiro.net>
References: <067f01c85d80$f71cdc80$e5569580$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
	<4797AE49.6020908@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4797BB1C.6090605@msapiro.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> Then restart mailman, and finally run fix_url to fix your lists. E.g.
> 
> cd ~mailman
> bin/withlist -l -r fix_url members -u firstdomain.com
> bin/withlist -l -r fix_url board -u seconddomain.com
> etc.


Actually, the fix_url -u option is the url host, not the email host, so
the above example should be

cd ~mailman
bin/withlist -l -r fix_url members -u www.firstdomain.com
bin/withlist -l -r fix_url board -u www.seconddomain.com
etc.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan 23 23:20:16 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:20:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with a mailman list setup
In-Reply-To: <D9B661F22A4B43FA8B802B086734B39C@mattfarrPC>
References: <D9B661F22A4B43FA8B802B086734B39C@mattfarrPC>
Message-ID: <4797BDA0.9090307@msapiro.net>

Matthew Farr wrote:
> 
> I tried to set up a new list today, here:
> http://tlca.org/mailman/listinfo/risingsun
> 
> However, no one can send mail to the list. It bounces back with:
> This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification
> Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:
>     risingsun at tlca.org
> Technical details of permanent failure:
> PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 13): 550 <risingsun at tlca.org>: Recipient
> address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table
> 
>>From looking at the documentation, it looks like I need to configure
> Postfix, and maybe a virtual domain file? I'm at a loss. If anyone is
> willing to help, I do take direction well. Where do I start?


Do the other lists on the site work?

It appears there are no aliases for the new list.  If the MTA is Postfix
and it is 'integrated' with Mailman, the generation of aliases should be
automatic. Otherwise, you may need to manually add the 10 required
aliases for the list to /etc/aliases or wherever they go and run
postalias or newaliases or whatever.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Thu Jan 24 00:34:02 2008
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:34:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ghost Moderator Requests
In-Reply-To: <4795267C.9020908@msapiro.net>
References: <20080121214513.7AEFB1E4019@bag.python.org>
	<4795267C.9020908@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20080123233501.8DA021E400F@bag.python.org>

At 06:10 PM 1/21/2008, you wrote:

>Somewhere, there is another test/backup/incompletely deleted/whatever
>Mailman installation that is sending these. Check the Received: headers
>of the message to see at which server it originates and then

I'm not sure what you mean by "at which server it originates". Are 
you talking about the server that is sending the mailman mail (i.e. 
the mailman server) or the server that sent the email(s) that require 
attention? If the latter, there is no way to tell since the message 
is from the mailman server.


>  find / -name config.pck -print

/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/mailman.pck
/var/lib/mailman/lists/<my real list>/<my real list>.pck


>--
>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


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From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Jan 24 04:33:54 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:33:54 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] two mailman installations..
In-Reply-To: <BLU130-W17BEBA859973F960BF3680FB3F0@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.18.1200999607.24975.mailman-users@python.org>
	<BLU130-W17BEBA859973F960BF3680FB3F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <p06240803c3bdb745c7c0@[192.168.1.199]>

On 1/23/08, Khalil Abbas wrote:

>  the question is, is there a way to prevent duplicate subscriptions?
>  because people subscribe to my newsletter by email sent to me, then
>  I collect all the emails and use the mass-subscribe option in the
>  web interface.. and some subscribers may exist in the first server
>  and not in the second one so that they will recieve the same email
>  twice.

There are no built-in features in Mailman to prevent duplicate 
subscriptions across different servers.

If you keep the official subscriber list in a back-end database and 
then you use sync_members, you should be able to split the list of 
subscribers and use the database to ensure that there aren't any 
duplications.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 24 09:58:10 2008
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:58:10 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 47, Issue 45
In-Reply-To: <mailman.18.1200999607.24975.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.18.1200999607.24975.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <BLU130-W24718C07D60D86E063190EFB380@phx.gbl>


 
Hello mailman guys..
 
ok, I have a dedicated server .. and I use mailman to send a daily newsletter.. I recenly got a list of 1,000,000 email addresses that I want to use to promote my website and mailing list .. can I create another mailman installation and add these addresses to it and use it to send an invitation to visit my website and join my mailing list without the risk of getting blocked by hotmail or yahoo or others because these emails I bought will have many faulty ones and will generate excessive bounces..
 
is mailman programmed in a way to avoid getting blocked by hotmail and others?? or do u think it's better to buy another server and use it for promotion? 
 
Thanks mailman unknown soldiers ;)
 
 
_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts!?Play the word scramble challenge with star power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan

From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 24 09:58:24 2008
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:58:24 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Promotion
In-Reply-To: <mailman.18.1200999607.24975.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.18.1200999607.24975.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <BLU130-W412A5B83E8F6020FB0F83FFB380@phx.gbl>


 
Hello mailman guys..
 
ok, I have a dedicated server .. and I use mailman to send a daily newsletter.. I recenly got a list of 1,000,000 email addresses that I want to use to promote my website and mailing list .. can I create another mailman installation and add these addresses to it and use it to send an invitation to visit my website and join my mailing list without the risk of getting blocked by hotmail or yahoo or others because these emails I bought will have many faulty ones and will generate excessive bounces..
 
is mailman programmed in a way to avoid getting blocked by hotmail and others?? or do u think it's better to buy another server and use it for promotion? 
 
Thanks mailman unknown soldiers ;)
 
 
_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail?-get your "fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx

From zszalbot at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 10:34:52 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 10:34:52 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Promotion
In-Reply-To: <BLU130-W412A5B83E8F6020FB0F83FFB380@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.18.1200999607.24975.mailman-users@python.org>
	<BLU130-W412A5B83E8F6020FB0F83FFB380@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <94136a2c0801240134x393253bds6e16ae55f060b71f@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

2008/1/24, Khalil Abbas <khillo100 at hotmail.com>:
>
>
> Hello mailman guys..
>
> ok, I have a dedicated server .. and I use mailman to send a daily newsletter.. I recenly got a list of 1,000,000 email addresses that I want to use to promote my website and mailing list .. can I create another mailman installation and add these addresses to it and use it to send an invitation to visit my website and join my mailing list without the risk of getting blocked by hotmail or yahoo or others because these emails I bought will have many faulty ones and will generate excessive bounces..
>
> is mailman programmed in a way to avoid getting blocked by hotmail and others?? or do u think it's better to buy another server and use it for promotion?

I may sound harsh but you cannot just get a list of 1,000,000 just
like that. I do not think Mailman creators wanted their product to be
used as a tool for spammers. Unless, these people have volunteered to
be sent offers.

I am not suggesting any solution because I am very much against such practices.

Zbigniew Szalbot

From alxfrag at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 14:11:04 2008
From: alxfrag at gmail.com (AlxFrag)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:11:04 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with fresh installation of mailman
Message-ID: <47988E68.7050007@gmail.com>

Hi all,

i've been using mailman-2.1.9 about a year now without problems.

I've set up a new mail server (postfix) and installed mailman again. 
I've succesfully created a new list called "mylist".

But, if i try to send an email to mylist at mydomain postfix replies that 
this user does not exist:

Jan 24 15:01:41 posidon postfix/virtual[15195]: CCB0E1089AC: 
to=<mylist at mydomain>, relay=virtual, delay=3.1, delays=2.8/0/0/0.34, 
dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced (unknown user: "mylist at mydomain")



In main.cf i have:

alias_maps=hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
virtual_alias_maps=hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

in mm_cfg.py:

MTA='Postfix'

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS=['mydomain']

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST,DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

add_virtualhost('mydomain','mydomain')

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance,

Alex


From joakim at nomell.se  Thu Jan 24 14:41:35 2008
From: joakim at nomell.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Joakim_N=F6mell?=)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:41:35 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change -owner addresses
In-Reply-To: <4797B2EB.3060601@msapiro.net>
References: <alpine.DEB.0.99.0801172118150.2013@merope.webworld.se>
	<478FD99E.1060000@msapiro.net>
	<alpine.DEB.0.99.0801231149430.12858@merope.webworld.se>
	<alpine.DEB.0.99.0801231216460.12858@merope.webworld.se>
	<4797B2EB.3060601@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.0.99.0801241437031.31963@merope.webworld.se>

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I don't know why.  If you have something like the following for your
> mailman router
>
> mailman_router:
>  driver = accept
>  domains = +mm_domains
>  require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
>  local_part_suffix_optional
>  local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
>                      -confirm : -confirm+* : \
>                      -join : -leave : \
>                      -subscribe : -unsubscribe : \
>                      -owner : -request : -admin
>  transport = mailman_transport
>
> and it worked before, I think changing '-owner' to '-own' in
> local_part_suffix is all you need to do.
>
>> But the owner addresses are only used for external people to contact the
>> list owners, right? We are not using these adresses. So if this doesn't
>> generates any problems for mailman, I can just change -owner in my
>> mm-router in exim4.conf to something else? Mailman sends out some
>> administravie mails from list-owner-address but this should work anyway
>> I guess?
>
>
> Mailman also sends some administrivia notices TO listname-owner and then
> receives and resends them to the owner and moderator addresses, but changing
>
>   def GetOwnerEmail(self):
>       return self.getListAddress('owner')
>
> in Mailman/MailList.py to
>
>   def GetOwnerEmail(self):
>       return self.getListAddress('own')
>
> should take care of all of that (I think).

If I change -owner to -own in the mm router in my exim.conf-file and 
change the above in MailList.py I got this log in exim:

2008-01-24 14:35:17 1JI2Ef-00011f-7q <= joakim at nomell.se H=localhost 
[127.0.0.1] P=esmtps X=TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32 S=856 
id=alpine.DEB.0.99.0801241435030.31963 at merope.webworld.se from <joakim at nomell.se> for lekstugan-own at smartlist.nu

2008-01-24 14:35:17 1JI2Ef-00011f-7q ** lekstugan at smartlist.nu 
<lekstugan-own at smartlist.nu> F=<joakim at nomell.se> R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport: Child 
process  of mailman_transport transport returned 6 from command: /var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman

I have restarted both exim and mailman. Can't find anything in the 
mailman own logs. O don't need to do anything else with MailList.py but 
restart mailman after the change?

-- 
__________________________________________________________________
Joakim N?mell     Tel  : 070 771 31 00     MSN  : joakim at nomell.nu
Unix engineer                              Web  : http://nomell.se
------------------------------------------------------------------

From cpz at tuunq.com  Thu Jan 24 17:54:36 2008
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:54:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Promotion
In-Reply-To: <BLU130-W412A5B83E8F6020FB0F83FFB380@phx.gbl> from Khalil Abbas
	at "Jan 24, 2008 08:58:24 am"
Message-ID: <20080124165436.D1E207AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Khalil Abbas wrote:

> ok, I have a dedicated server .. and I use mailman to send a daily 
>newsletter.. I recenly got a list of 1,000,000 email addresses that I 
>want to use to promote my website and mailing list .. 

Not what you want to hear, but -even-if- 100% of those addresses are
legitimately collected, opt-in, want to see your product addresses, it's 
still almost certain that you'll be immediately tagged as a spammer.
Given what I've seen of email address lists offered, most of the
entries are complete junk.

> is mailman programmed in a way to avoid getting blocked by hotmail 
> and others?? or do u think it's better to buy another server and use 
> it for promotion? 

All mailman does is send email.  There isn't much that the software can 
do to prevent hotmail/etc from blocking your mail.  There are things that 
you can do, like whitelisting, but you need to research those on the
postmaster web sites for said providers.

Oh, and it's quite possible that your ISP could bounce you as a
customer for violating their spamming policy.

z!


From du at bestwaytech.com  Thu Jan 24 21:30:19 2008
From: du at bestwaytech.com (Danila Ulyanov)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:30:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot accept or reject messages as moderator
In-Reply-To: <479657FE.3050204@msapiro.net>
References: <4790FF3A.9020004@bestwaytech.com> <47912FD4.2000207@msapiro.net>
	<47963570.80005@bestwaytech.com> <479657FE.3050204@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4798F55B.8060500@bestwaytech.com>

Thanks for all the help guys! Embarrassingly, it was in fact a very 
stupid configuration error. I completely forgot we used a mirror domain 
for mailman (so it doesn't conflict with main virtual domain in postfix) 
and a few weeks ago I made all domains redirect to the main domain in 
apache configuration, obviously that broke mailman since domains now 
differed. All fixed now.

Danila

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Danila Ulyanov wrote:
>> Unfortunately this is not the error I am getting. It does not keep
>> re-asking me for password and there were no web server changes.
> 
> 
> Despite the title, FAQ 4.45 addresses situations where constant
> re-authorization is not required.
> 
> 
>> I also tried looking at
>> http://non-gnu.uvt.nl/repos/mailman-ssls/mailman-ssls/doc/secure-list-patch.pod
>> instructions on how to debug, but they were utterly confusing.
> 
> 
> Are you using ssl?
> 
> 
>> Any other suggestions on what I can try?
> 
> 
> Look for errors in Mailman's error log. Also view the source html of the
> admindb page and see if the POST URL on the page is the same as the URL
> in the address bar of the browser.
> 
> Also, does this problem occur only in the admindb interface, or also in
> the admin interface?
> 

From matt at ideashop.com  Thu Jan 24 21:55:21 2008
From: matt at ideashop.com (Matthew Farr)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 13:55:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with a mailman list setup
In-Reply-To: <4797BDA0.9090307@msapiro.net>
References: <D9B661F22A4B43FA8B802B086734B39C@mattfarrPC>
	<4797BDA0.9090307@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <B0D6691C4A794D1891B15F13EA43C965@mattfarrPC>

Yes, the other lists are working.

I can see some of these aliases in virtual-mailman and virtual-mailman.db --
but there is a warning not to edit these files. Actually, one functioning
list isn't in either of these files, which makes me think there is a
separate aliases file elsewhere...

OK, same directory I see aliases. This file does have my new list of aliases
(which I did NOT enter manually):

# STANZA START: risingsun
# CREATED: Tue Jan 22 11:15:27 2008
risingsun:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post risingsun"
risingsun-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin risingsun"
risingsun-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces risingsun"
risingsun-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm risingsun"
risingsun-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join risingsun"
risingsun-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave risingsun"
risingsun-owner:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner risingsun"
risingsun-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request risingsun"
risingsun-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe risingsun"
risingsun-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe
risingsun"
# STANZA END: risingsun

However, the aliases.db DOES NOT include any of this information. Is there a
way I can edit this file? Do I need to? Could this be my problem?

Matt



 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 3:20 PM
To: Matthew Farr
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Problem with a mailman list setup

Matthew Farr wrote:
> 
> I tried to set up a new list today, here:
> http://tlca.org/mailman/listinfo/risingsun
> 
> However, no one can send mail to the list. It bounces back with:
> This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification 
> Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:
>     risingsun at tlca.org
> Technical details of permanent failure:
> PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 13): 550 <risingsun at tlca.org>: 
> Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table
> 
>>From looking at the documentation, it looks like I need to configure
> Postfix, and maybe a virtual domain file? I'm at a loss. If anyone is 
> willing to help, I do take direction well. Where do I start?


Do the other lists on the site work?

It appears there are no aliases for the new list.  If the MTA is Postfix and
it is 'integrated' with Mailman, the generation of aliases should be
automatic. Otherwise, you may need to manually add the 10 required aliases
for the list to /etc/aliases or wherever they go and run postalias or
newaliases or whatever.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan 24 18:10:46 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:10:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ghost Moderator Requests
In-Reply-To: <20080123233501.8DA021E400F@bag.python.org>
References: <20080121214513.7AEFB1E4019@bag.python.org>	<4795267C.9020908@msapiro.net>
	<20080123233501.8DA021E400F@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <4798C696.2080707@msapiro.net>

Dennis Putnam wrote:
> At 06:10 PM 1/21/2008, you wrote:
> 
>> Somewhere, there is another test/backup/incompletely deleted/whatever
>> Mailman installation that is sending these. Check the Received: headers
>> of the message to see at which server it originates and then
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by "at which server it originates". Are you
> talking about the server that is sending the mailman mail (i.e. the
> mailman server) or the server that sent the email(s) that require
> attention? If the latter, there is no way to tell since the message is
> from the mailman server.


I mean the Mailman server that sent the 'n <listname> moderator requests
waiting' notice, which may not be the same physical box as the Mailman
server that supports your active list..

The chain of Received: headers in the notification you receive will
identify every server MTA through which the mail passed on it's way to
you. I am suggesting that these messages might originate from a Mailman
installation on a different box and the earliest Received: headers in
the chain might help you identify the box.

For example, here are the Received: headers (and a few other
interspersed headers) from the message to which I'm replying:

Received: from smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.33])
 by sbh16.songbird.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A80E690092
 for <mark at msapiro.net>; Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:35:37 -0800 (PST)
Received: from bag.python.org (bag.python.org [194.109.207.14])
 by smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m0NNZR42028054
 for <mark at msapiro.net>; Thu, 24 Jan 2008 00:35:37 +0100 (CET)
 (envelope-from mailman-users-bounces+mark=msapiro.net at python.org)
Received: from bag.python.org (bag [127.0.0.1])
 by bag.python.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDB0B1E402F
 for <mark at msapiro.net>; Thu, 24 Jan 2008 00:35:36 +0100 (CET)
X-Original-To: mailman-users at python.org
Delivered-To: mailman-users at bag.python.org
Received: from bag.python.org (bag [127.0.0.1])
 by bag.python.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DA021E400F
 for <mailman-users at python.org>; Thu, 24 Jan 2008 00:35:01 +0100 (CET)
X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000, No
Received: from bag (HELO bag.python.org) (127.0.0.1)
 by bag.python.org with SMTP; 24 Jan 2008 00:35:01 +0100
Received: from fmailhost03.isp.att.net (fmailhost03.isp.att.net
 [204.127.217.103]) by bag.python.org (Postfix) with ESMTP
 for <mailman-users at python.org>; Thu, 24 Jan 2008 00:34:58 +0100 (CET)
Received: from dap001 (adsl-34-248-212.asm.bellsouth.net[67.34.248.212])
 by isp.att.net (frfwmhc03) with SMTP
 id <20080123233455H0300id6ioe>; Wed, 23 Jan 2008 23:34:57 +0000

These tell us that the message originated from your machine at
adsl-34-248-212.asm.bellsouth.net (IP 67.34.248.212). A similar analysis
of the Received: headers of the notice you received will indicate from
which physical box the message originated.


>>  find / -name config.pck -print
> 
> /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/mailman.pck
> /var/lib/mailman/lists/<my real list>/<my real list>.pck


Assuming you actually mean the results of the above find were

/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck
/var/lib/mailman/lists/<my real list>/config.pck

and nothing else, this is additional evidence that the notices originate
from a different box.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan 24 18:41:42 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:41:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Promotion
In-Reply-To: <94136a2c0801240134x393253bds6e16ae55f060b71f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.18.1200999607.24975.mailman-users@python.org>	<BLU130-W412A5B83E8F6020FB0F83FFB380@phx.gbl>
	<94136a2c0801240134x393253bds6e16ae55f060b71f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4798CDD6.7080309@msapiro.net>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> 2008/1/24, Khalil Abbas <khillo100 at hotmail.com>:
>>
>> Hello mailman guys..
>>
>> ok, I have a dedicated server .. and I use mailman to send a daily newsletter.. I recenly got a list of 1,000,000 email addresses that I want to use to promote my website and mailing list .. can I create another mailman installation and add these addresses to it and use it to send an invitation to visit my website and join my mailing list without the risk of getting blocked by hotmail or yahoo or others because these emails I bought will have many faulty ones and will generate excessive bounces..
>>
>> is mailman programmed in a way to avoid getting blocked by hotmail and others?? or do u think it's better to buy another server and use it for promotion?
> 
> I may sound harsh but you cannot just get a list of 1,000,000 just
> like that. I do not think Mailman creators wanted their product to be
> used as a tool for spammers. Unless, these people have volunteered to
> be sent offers.
> 
> I am not suggesting any solution because I am very much against such practices.


It is not harsh.

Unless you know for certain that every address on that list belongs to
someone who has asked to receive a class of mail which clearly includes
your intended mailing (something which is almost certainly not true
regardless of any assurances from the seller of the list), you are
spamming that list.

If 1% or 10,000 of those addresses are for example hotmail addresses,
whatever portion of those are invalid, I think hotmail should blacklist
you for sending a bulk mailing to 10,000 hotmail addresses.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan 24 18:52:14 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:52:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with fresh installation of mailman
In-Reply-To: <47988E68.7050007@gmail.com>
References: <47988E68.7050007@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4798D04E.1040605@msapiro.net>

AlxFrag wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> i've been using mailman-2.1.9 about a year now without problems.
> 
> I've set up a new mail server (postfix) and installed mailman again. 
> I've succesfully created a new list called "mylist".
> 
> But, if i try to send an email to mylist at mydomain postfix replies that 
> this user does not exist:
> 
> Jan 24 15:01:41 posidon postfix/virtual[15195]: CCB0E1089AC: 
> to=<mylist at mydomain>, relay=virtual, delay=3.1, delays=2.8/0/0/0.34, 
> dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced (unknown user: "mylist at mydomain")
> 
> 
> 
> In main.cf i have:
> 
> alias_maps=hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
> virtual_alias_maps=hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
> 
> in mm_cfg.py:
> 
> MTA='Postfix'
> 
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS=['mydomain']
> 
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST,DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> 
> add_virtualhost('mydomain','mydomain')


What are the actual contents of /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases and
/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman, and do
/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases.db and
/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman.db exist and have the same or
more recent modification times as the aliases and virtual-mailman files.

If not, does running Mailman's bin/genaliases fix it?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan 24 21:57:53 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:57:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change -owner addresses
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.0.99.0801241437031.31963@merope.webworld.se>
References: <alpine.DEB.0.99.0801172118150.2013@merope.webworld.se>
	<478FD99E.1060000@msapiro.net>
	<alpine.DEB.0.99.0801231149430.12858@merope.webworld.se>
	<alpine.DEB.0.99.0801231216460.12858@merope.webworld.se>
	<4797B2EB.3060601@msapiro.net>
	<alpine.DEB.0.99.0801241437031.31963@merope.webworld.se>
Message-ID: <4798FBD1.20707@msapiro.net>

Joakim N?mell wrote:
> 
> If I change -owner to -own in the mm router in my exim.conf-file and
> change the above in MailList.py I got this log in exim:
> 
> 2008-01-24 14:35:17 1JI2Ef-00011f-7q <= joakim at nomell.se H=localhost
> [127.0.0.1] P=esmtps X=TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32 S=856
> id=alpine.DEB.0.99.0801241435030.31963 at merope.webworld.se from
> <joakim at nomell.se> for lekstugan-own at smartlist.nu
> 
> 2008-01-24 14:35:17 1JI2Ef-00011f-7q ** lekstugan at smartlist.nu
> <lekstugan-own at smartlist.nu> F=<joakim at nomell.se> R=mailman_router
> T=mailman_transport: Child process  of mailman_transport transport
> returned 6 from command: /var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman


The status of 6 is an invalid command.

When I initially suggested changing the aliases, I was thinking of
something like

listname-own: "|path/to/mail/mailman owner listname"

which would work. With exim however, it is a bit more complex because by
changing the suffix to -own, you are also telling exim to invoke the
wrapper with a 'command' of 'own' instead of 'owner'.

You either need to change the mail/mailman wrapper to accept 'own' and
change the name of scripts/owner to scripts/own or change the exim
mailman transport which is probably easier.

If the transport definition contains something like

  command = MAILMAN_WRAP \
            '${if def:local_part_suffix \
                  {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}} \
                  {post}}' \
            $local_part

it needs to be changed. I don't know enough exim magic off the top of my
head to give you the exact incantation, and for a few more days, I am on
a ship in the Carribean and my internet access is very expensive (I'm
composing this offline), so I won't look it up, but the above says that
the command to pipe to is

MAILMAN_WRAP

followed by

if there is a suffix, use the 'word' between '-' and '+' if any,
else use 'post'

followed by

the local-part without the suffix which is the list name.

You have to enhance the suffix processing so that if it results in
'own', you make it 'owner'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hansen at rc.org  Fri Jan 25 00:31:48 2008
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:31:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Promotion
In-Reply-To: <94136a2c0801240134x393253bds6e16ae55f060b71f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.18.1200999607.24975.mailman-users@python.org>
	<BLU130-W412A5B83E8F6020FB0F83FFB380@phx.gbl>
	<94136a2c0801240134x393253bds6e16ae55f060b71f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3be9717dc65@[10.0.1.2]>

I agree, and it's not harsh enough.

My first reaction to this was Oh-My-God.

My second reaction was to think that we needed an agreement among Mailman list users that Mailman not be used for spam. Then I realized that that would only inconvenience legit Mailman users and spammers would not care to lie, just as they don't care about how grievously they inconvenience and lie to everyone on their 1,000,000 long subscriber lists.

So I suppose that the best response is to simply ignore requests such as this which so obviously is from a spammer.

Allan


At 10:34 AM +0100 1/24/08, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>Hello,
>
>2008/1/24, Khalil Abbas <khillo100 at hotmail.com>:
>>
>>
>> Hello mailman guys..
>>
>> ok, I have a dedicated server .. and I use mailman to send a daily newsletter.. I recenly got a list of 1,000,000 email addresses that I want to use to promote my website and mailing list .. can I create another mailman installation and add these addresses to it and use it to send an invitation to visit my website and join my mailing list without the risk of getting blocked by hotmail or yahoo or others because these emails I bought will have many faulty ones and will generate excessive bounces..
>>
>> is mailman programmed in a way to avoid getting blocked by hotmail and others?? or do u think it's better to buy another server and use it for promotion?
>
>I may sound harsh but you cannot just get a list of 1,000,000 just
>like that. I do not think Mailman creators wanted their product to be
>used as a tool for spammers. Unless, these people have volunteered to
>be sent offers.
>
>I am not suggesting any solution because I am very much against such practices.
>
>Zbigniew Szalbot

-- 
Allan Hansen
P.O Box 2423
Cypress, CA 90630
U.S.A.
hansen at rc.org
+1-714-875-8870

From cyndi at tikvah.com  Fri Jan 25 01:22:09 2008
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:22:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Promotion
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c3be9717dc65@[10.0.1.2]> (message from Allan Hansen on
	Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:31:48 -0800)
References: <mailman.18.1200999607.24975.mailman-users@python.org>
	<BLU130-W412A5B83E8F6020FB0F83FFB380@phx.gbl>
	<94136a2c0801240134x393253bds6e16ae55f060b71f@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240801c3be9717dc65@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <200801250022.m0P0M9VB029245@b.mail.sonic.net>

   Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:31:48 -0800
   From: Allan Hansen <hansen at rc.org>

   So I suppose that the best response is to simply ignore requests such as
   this which so obviously is from a spammer.

I disagree.  They shouldn't be ignored.  They should be denounced.

Previous posters covered all the bases just in (the unlikely) case the
poster had a legit list (or perhaps a list he was told was legit when he
bought it).  I can't imagine this guy is a seasoned spammer with full
knowledge of what he is doing or he wouldn't have posted for help.  If he
wants to do things legally and ethically, it's not too late.  If he
doesn't, well, we're not going to help him with his mailer issues.

Cyndi


From barry at list.org  Fri Jan 25 01:55:20 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 19:55:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Promotion
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c3be9717dc65@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <mailman.18.1200999607.24975.mailman-users@python.org>
	<BLU130-W412A5B83E8F6020FB0F83FFB380@phx.gbl>
	<94136a2c0801240134x393253bds6e16ae55f060b71f@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240801c3be9717dc65@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <603D7FAC-775C-4B37-AD42-EEB30F7137FE@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Jan 24, 2008, at 6:31 PM, Allan Hansen wrote:

> I agree, and it's not harsh enough.
>
> My first reaction to this was Oh-My-God.
>
> My second reaction was to think that we needed an agreement among  
> Mailman list users that Mailman not be used for spam. Then I  
> realized that that would only inconvenience legit Mailman users and  
> spammers would not care to lie, just as they don't care about how  
> grievously they inconvenience and lie to everyone on their 1,000,000  
> long subscriber lists.
>
> So I suppose that the best response is to simply ignore requests  
> such as this which so obviously is from a spammer.

Let me chime in for just a second.

Without really knowing the details of this specific case, I should  
point out a few things.  First, as anybody who's seen my replybot  
message knows, I consider spammers reprehensible and am saddened  
whenever I see them using Mailman for their nefarious purposes.   
Fortunately, I'm always gladdened in more than equal measure by all  
the great people using Mailman for positive, fun, interesting, and  
socially important ways.

Second, because GNU Mailman is licensed under the GPL, we cannot  
legally restrict Mailman from being used for any purpose.  The GPL is  
copyright based -- there's no user agreement anywhere to be found.  I  
sometimes wish we could legally prevent spammers from using Mailman,  
but we cannot, and in fact I think in the long run, that benefits all  
of us.  Spamming activities certainly run afoul of other, better laws,  
and I'd rather err on the side of more freedom than less.

However, I think it's perfectly appropriate to denounce spammers, and  
refuse to help them.  I hope we can also educate them so that people  
who might be inadvertently or naively spamming people will come to  
understand that there is a better way.  Some people know exactly what  
they are doing and don't care.  Those people deserve our scorn.  But I  
also know of cases where people really didn't realize that what they  
were doing was unacceptable or possibly illegal.  Let's help them  
understand they can use tools like Mailman in a more acceptable way.   
If they still want to do bad things, we don't have to help them.

Cheers,
- -Barry

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=k89P
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From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jan 25 04:33:51 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 19:33:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with a mailman list setup
In-Reply-To: <B0D6691C4A794D1891B15F13EA43C965@mattfarrPC>
References: <D9B661F22A4B43FA8B802B086734B39C@mattfarrPC>
	<4797BDA0.9090307@msapiro.net>
	<B0D6691C4A794D1891B15F13EA43C965@mattfarrPC>
Message-ID: <4799589F.4090107@msapiro.net>

Matthew Farr wrote:
> Yes, the other lists are working.
> 
> I can see some of these aliases in virtual-mailman and virtual-mailman.db --
> but there is a warning not to edit these files. Actually, one functioning
> list isn't in either of these files, which makes me think there is a
> separate aliases file elsewhere...
> 
> OK, same directory I see aliases. This file does have my new list of aliases
> (which I did NOT enter manually):
> 
> # STANZA START: risingsun
> # CREATED: Tue Jan 22 11:15:27 2008
> risingsun:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post risingsun"
> risingsun-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin risingsun"
> risingsun-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces risingsun"
> risingsun-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm risingsun"
> risingsun-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join risingsun"
> risingsun-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave risingsun"
> risingsun-owner:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner risingsun"
> risingsun-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request risingsun"
> risingsun-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe risingsun"
> risingsun-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe
> risingsun"
> # STANZA END: risingsun
> 
> However, the aliases.db DOES NOT include any of this information. Is there a
> way I can edit this file? Do I need to? Could this be my problem?


The aliases.db file is updated from the aliases file by the command

postalias /path/to/data/aliases

The list creation process that added these aliases to the data/aliases
file should run the postalias command defined as POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD in
Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py (default is /usr/sbin/postalias) to update the
aliases.db.  Perhaps this failed for some reason.

Another possibility is that Postfix's main.cf doesn't reference
data/aliases in alias_maps.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Jan 25 06:05:39 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 23:05:39 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Promotion
In-Reply-To: <603D7FAC-775C-4B37-AD42-EEB30F7137FE@list.org>
References: <mailman.18.1200999607.24975.mailman-users@python.org>
	<BLU130-W412A5B83E8F6020FB0F83FFB380@phx.gbl>
	<94136a2c0801240134x393253bds6e16ae55f060b71f@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240801c3be9717dc65@[10.0.1.2]>
	<603D7FAC-775C-4B37-AD42-EEB30F7137FE@list.org>
Message-ID: <p06240806c3bf1d05b6f8@[192.168.1.199]>

On 1/24/08, Barry Warsaw wrote:

>  However, I think it's perfectly appropriate to denounce spammers, and
>  refuse to help them.

Speaking only for myself, if I discover that someone has actively 
used Mailman to further their illegal and/or immoral spamming 
activities, then I will take any and all actions I can to terminate 
their electronic existence with extreme prejudice.

However, before I start the New Dresden Firestorm, I will do 
everything I can to make sure that they really are spammers and not 
just horribly misguided.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Fri Jan 25 07:41:14 2008
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:41:14 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Promotion
In-Reply-To: <200801250022.m0P0M9VB029245@b.mail.sonic.net>
References: <mailman.18.1200999607.24975.mailman-users@python.org>
	<BLU130-W412A5B83E8F6020FB0F83FFB380@phx.gbl>
	<94136a2c0801240134x393253bds6e16ae55f060b71f@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240801c3be9717dc65@[10.0.1.2]> 
	<200801250022.m0P0M9VB029245@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <BLU130-W49F33EB5EBE1A11C9B59FFB390@phx.gbl>


Now this is the most logical and reasonale answer I've ever got .. this is what I call: a reply from a professional.. she's right, I have no idea that this is spamming.. all I know about spamming is those who send you repeatedly every once in a while, and all I wanna do is send a simple invite and that's all.. if this is spamming, then screw it .. I'm no programmer and no whiz.. somebody gave me this huge list of emails for money and said it will make people more aware of my site if I used it to invite them ..
 
anyways, thanks cyndi.. I really appeciate your help ..
 
and for the guys who thrashed me.. thanks too, but I didn't know..
 
anyways, no harm done..
 
Thanks ..
 
> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:22:09 -0800> From: cyndi at tikvah.com> To: hansen at rc.org> CC: zszalbot at gmail.com; khillo100 at hotmail.com; mailman-users at python.org; cyndi at tikvah.com> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Promotion> > Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:31:48 -0800> From: Allan Hansen <hansen at rc.org>> > So I suppose that the best response is to simply ignore requests such as> this which so obviously is from a spammer.> > I disagree. They shouldn't be ignored. They should be denounced.> > Previous posters covered all the bases just in (the unlikely) case the> poster had a legit list (or perhaps a list he was told was legit when he> bought it). I can't imagine this guy is a seasoned spammer with full> knowledge of what he is doing or he wouldn't have posted for help. If he> wants to do things legally and ethically, it's not too late. If he> doesn't, well, we're not going to help him with his mailer issues.> > Cyndi> 
_________________________________________________________________
Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser!
http://biggestloser.msn.com/

From cyndi at tikvah.com  Fri Jan 25 07:56:22 2008
From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 22:56:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Promotion
In-Reply-To: <BLU130-W49F33EB5EBE1A11C9B59FFB390@phx.gbl> (message from Khalil
	Abbas on Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:41:14 +0000)
References: <mailman.18.1200999607.24975.mailman-users@python.org>
	<BLU130-W412A5B83E8F6020FB0F83FFB380@phx.gbl>
	<94136a2c0801240134x393253bds6e16ae55f060b71f@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240801c3be9717dc65@[10.0.1.2]> 
	<200801250022.m0P0M9VB029245@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<BLU130-W49F33EB5EBE1A11C9B59FFB390@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200801250656.m0P6uMNc028328@a.mail.sonic.net>

   From: Khalil Abbas <khillo100 at hotmail.com>
   Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:41:14 +0000

   Now this is the most logical and reasonale answer I've ever got .. this
   is what I call: a reply from a professional.. she's right, I have no
   idea that this is spamming.. all I know about spamming is those who send
   you repeatedly every once in a while, and all I wanna do is send a
   simple invite and that's all.. if this is spamming, then screw it .. I'm
   no programmer and no whiz.. somebody gave me this huge list of emails
   for money and said it will make people more aware of my site if I used
   it to invite them ..

   anyways, thanks cyndi.. I really appeciate your help ..

You're welcome.  But as you read further in your email you'll see that
others here shared my views.

I'm very glad to hear you've changed your mind about this mailing.  I wish
you luck in your legitimate promotional efforts (buying ads on search
engines or mailer software or elsewhere is a good choice).

Cyndi


From zszalbot at gmail.com  Fri Jan 25 08:00:12 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 08:00:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Promotion
In-Reply-To: <200801250656.m0P6uMNc028328@a.mail.sonic.net>
References: <mailman.18.1200999607.24975.mailman-users@python.org>
	<BLU130-W412A5B83E8F6020FB0F83FFB380@phx.gbl>
	<94136a2c0801240134x393253bds6e16ae55f060b71f@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240801c3be9717dc65@10.0.1.2>
	<200801250022.m0P0M9VB029245@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<BLU130-W49F33EB5EBE1A11C9B59FFB390@phx.gbl>
	<200801250656.m0P6uMNc028328@a.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <94136a2c0801242300y7e21e064j8dd116df5def3824@mail.gmail.com>

Hello again,

2008/1/25, Cyndi Norwitz <cyndi at tikvah.com>:
>    From: Khalil Abbas <khillo100 at hotmail.com>
>    Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:41:14 +0000
>
>    Now this is the most logical and reasonale answer I've ever got .. this
>    is what I call: a reply from a professional.. she's right, I have no
>    idea that this is spamming.. all I know about spamming is those who send
>    you repeatedly every once in a while, and all I wanna do is send a
>    simple invite and that's all.. if this is spamming, then screw it .. I'm
>    no programmer and no whiz.. somebody gave me this huge list of emails
>    for money and said it will make people more aware of my site if I used
>    it to invite them ..
>
>    anyways, thanks cyndi.. I really appeciate your help ..
>
> You're welcome.  But as you read further in your email you'll see that
> others here shared my views.
>
> I'm very glad to hear you've changed your mind about this mailing.  I wish
> you luck in your legitimate promotional efforts (buying ads on search
> engines or mailer software or elsewhere is a good choice).

Yes, irrelevant to Mailman but promotion-wise you may want to look at
adwords (Google). I am sure Yahoo! does something similar.

Thanks!

Zbigniew Szalbot

From alxfrag at gmail.com  Fri Jan 25 10:53:50 2008
From: alxfrag at gmail.com (AlxFrag)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 11:53:50 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with fresh installation of mailman
In-Reply-To: <4798D04E.1040605@msapiro.net>
References: <47988E68.7050007@gmail.com> <4798D04E.1040605@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4799B1AE.1080907@gmail.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> AlxFrag wrote:
>   
>> Hi all,
>>
>> i've been using mailman-2.1.9 about a year now without problems.
>>
>> I've set up a new mail server (postfix) and installed mailman again. 
>> I've succesfully created a new list called "mylist".
>>
>> But, if i try to send an email to mylist at mydomain postfix replies that 
>> this user does not exist:
>>
>> Jan 24 15:01:41 posidon postfix/virtual[15195]: CCB0E1089AC: 
>> to=<mylist at mydomain>, relay=virtual, delay=3.1, delays=2.8/0/0/0.34, 
>> dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced (unknown user: "mylist at mydomain")
>>
>>
>>
>> In main.cf i have:
>>
>> alias_maps=hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
>> virtual_alias_maps=hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>>
>> in mm_cfg.py:
>>
>> MTA='Postfix'
>>
>> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS=['mydomain']
>>
>> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST,DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>>
>> add_virtualhost('mydomain','mydomain')
>>     
>
>
> What are the actual contents of /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases and
> /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman, and do
> /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases.db and
> /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman.db exist and have the same or
> more recent modification times as the aliases and virtual-mailman files.
>
> If not, does running Mailman's bin/genaliases fix it?
>
>   
in

/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases:


mailman-loop: /usr/local/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox

# STANZA START: mailman
# CREATED: Fri Jan 25 11:46:25 2008
mailman:             "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:   "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
# STANZA END: mailman

# STANZA START: list
# CREATED: Fri Jan 25 11:46:25 2008
list:             "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post list"
list-admin:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin list"
list-bounces:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces list"
list-confirm:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm list"
list-join:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join list"
list-leave:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave list"
list-owner:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner list"
list-request:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request list"
list-subscribe:   "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe list"
list-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe list"
# STANZA END: list



in 
/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman:

# STANZA START: list
# CREATED: Fri Jan 25 11:46:25 2008
list at mydomain             list
list-admin at mydomain        list-admin
list-bounces at mydomain      list-bounces
list-confirm at mydomain      list-confirm
list-join at mydomain         list-join
list-leave at mydomain        list-leave
list-owner at mydomain        list-owner
list-request at mydomain      list-request
list-subscribe at mydomain    list-subscribe
list-unsubscribe at mydomain list-unsubscribe
# STANZA END: list

i also ran /bin/genaliases but still no luck :(



From abhra_mica at yahoo.co.in  Fri Jan 25 11:25:14 2008
From: abhra_mica at yahoo.co.in (Abhra Paul)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:25:14 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem regurding job submission through moab
	access potral
Message-ID: <914751.43967.qm@web8914.mail.in.yahoo.com>

When I am submitting any job through Moab Access Potral, then after a few second job is killed. I have checked the error.log file. The messages was like this :

 forrtl: severe (64): input conversion error, unit -5, file Internal Formatted Read
Image              PC                Routine            Line        Source             
dirac.x            0000000000A95E6E  Unknown               Unknown  Unknown
dirac.x            0000000000A9506A  Unknown               Unknown  Unknown
dirac.x            0000000000A4DA86  Unknown               Unknown  Unknown
dirac.x            0000000000A0275E  Unknown               Unknown  Unknown
dirac.x            0000000000A01D7A  Unknown               Unknown  Unknown
dirac.x            0000000000A1D89E  Unknown               Unknown  Unknown
dirac.x            0000000000A1BDEB  Unknown               Unknown  Unknown
dirac.x            00000000005B1EFE  Unknown               Unknown  Unknown
dirac.x            00000000005B156D  Unknown               Unknown  Unknown
dirac.x            00000000005A0BFB  Unknown               Unknown  Unknown
dirac.x            0000000000457C8F  Unknown               Unknown  Unknown
dirac.x            00000000004CCC48  Unknown               Unknown  Unknown
dirac.x            00000000004CCBE8  Unknown               Unknown  Unknown
dirac.x            000000000095A801  Unknown               Unknown  Unknown
libc.so.6          00000032A541C3FB  Unknown               Unknown  Unknown
dirac.x            000000000040A36A  Unknown               Unknown  Unknown
[node7.iacs.res.in:3, pid: 23976] Fatal Error: [node10.iacs.res.in:12, pid: 17654] Fatal Error: [node8.iacs.res.in:4, pid: 22748] Fatal Error: Unexpected disconnect received from [node7.iacs.res.in:0] at line 2079 in file vapiutil.c
[node9.iacs.res.in:8, pid: 20825] Fatal Error: [node10.iacs.res.in:13, pid: 17637] Fatal Error: [node10.iacs.res.in:14, pid: 17670] Fatal Error: Unexpected disconnect received from [node7.iacs.res.in:0] at line 2079 in file vapiutil.c
[node9.iacs.res.in:10, pid: 20807] Fatal Error: Unexpected disconnect received from [node7.iacs.res.in:0] at line 2079 in file vapiutil.c
[node9.iacs.res.in:11, pid: 20811] Fatal Error: Unexpected disconnect received from [node7.iacs.res.in:0] at line 2079 in file vapiutil.c
[node8.iacs.res.in:6, pid: 22741] Fatal Error: Unexpected disconnect received from [node7.iacs.res.in:0] at line 2079 in file vapiutil.c
Unexpected disconnect received from [node7.iacs.res.in:0] at line 2079 in file vapiutil.c
[node8.iacs.res.in:5, pid: 22742] Fatal Error: [node9.iacs.res.in:9, pid: 20842] Fatal Error: [node10.iacs.res.in:15, pid: 17632] Fatal Error: Unexpected disconnect received from [node7.iacs.res.in:0] at line 2079 in file vapiutil.c
[node7.iacs.res.in:1, pid: 23985] Fatal Error: Unexpected disconnect received from [node7.iacs.res.in:0] at line 2079 in file vapiutil.c
Unexpected disconnect received from [node7.iacs.res.in:0] at line 2079 in file vapiutil.c
[node7.iacs.res.in:2, pid: 23996] Fatal Error: Unexpected disconnect received from [node7.iacs.res.in:0] at line 2079 in file vapiutil.c
Unexpected disconnect received from [node7.iacs.res.in:0] at line 2079 in file vapiutil.c
[node8.iacs.res.in:7, pid: 22745] Fatal Error: Unexpected disconnect received from [node7.iacs.res.in:0] at line 2079 in file vapiutil.c
Unexpected disconnect received from [node7.iacs.res.in:0] at line 2079 in file vapiutil.c
Unexpected disconnect received from [node7.iacs.res.in:0] at line 2079 in file vapiutil.c
Unexpected disconnect received from [node7.iacs.res.in:0] at line 2079 in file vapiutil.c
bash: line 1: 17637 Terminated              /usr/bin/env MPIRUN_MPD=0 MPIRUN_HOST=node7.iacs.res.in MPIRUN_PORT=35265 MPIRUN_PROCESSES='node7.iacs.res.in:node7.iacs.res.in:node7.iacs.res.in:node7.iacs.res.in:node8.iacs.res.in:node8.iacs.res.in:node8.iacs.res.in:node8.iacs.res.in:node9.iacs.res.in:node9.iacs.res.in:node9.iacs.res.in:node9.iacs.res.in:node10.iacs.res.in:node10.iacs.res.in:node10.iacs.res.in:node10.iacs.res.in:' MPIRUN_RANK=13 MPIRUN_NPROCS=16 MPIRUN_ID=23901 /home/pcpkp/dummy/dirac.x
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please tell me how I solve this problem. Actually I am new in Cluster area , that is why I am facing much more problem. Plz help me.

                                                                              This message is from
                                                                                     Abhra Paul

       
---------------------------------
 Now you can chat without downloading messenger. Click here to know how.

From bernd at firmix.at  Fri Jan 25 10:41:11 2008
From: bernd at firmix.at (Bernd Petrovitsch)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:41:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Promotion
In-Reply-To: <BLU130-W49F33EB5EBE1A11C9B59FFB390@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.18.1200999607.24975.mailman-users@python.org>
	<BLU130-W412A5B83E8F6020FB0F83FFB380@phx.gbl>
	<94136a2c0801240134x393253bds6e16ae55f060b71f@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240801c3be9717dc65@[10.0.1.2]>
	<200801250022.m0P0M9VB029245@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<BLU130-W49F33EB5EBE1A11C9B59FFB390@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1201254071.22697.25.camel@tara.firmix.at>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20080125/00d8afda/attachment.txt 

From alxfrag at gmail.com  Fri Jan 25 12:15:45 2008
From: alxfrag at gmail.com (AlxFrag)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:15:45 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with fresh installation of
	mailman[SOLVED]
In-Reply-To: <4798D04E.1040605@msapiro.net>
References: <47988E68.7050007@gmail.com> <4798D04E.1040605@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4799C4E1.6040708@gmail.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> AlxFrag wrote:
>   
>> Hi all,
>>
>> i've been using mailman-2.1.9 about a year now without problems.
>>
>> I've set up a new mail server (postfix) and installed mailman again. 
>> I've succesfully created a new list called "mylist".
>>
>> But, if i try to send an email to mylist at mydomain postfix replies that 
>> this user does not exist:
>>
>> Jan 24 15:01:41 posidon postfix/virtual[15195]: CCB0E1089AC: 
>> to=<mylist at mydomain>, relay=virtual, delay=3.1, delays=2.8/0/0/0.34, 
>> dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced (unknown user: "mylist at mydomain")
>>
>>
>>
>> In main.cf i have:
>>
>> alias_maps=hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
>> virtual_alias_maps=hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>>
>> in mm_cfg.py:
>>
>> MTA='Postfix'
>>
>> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS=['mydomain']
>>
>> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST,DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>>
>> add_virtualhost('mydomain','mydomain')
>>     
>
>
> What are the actual contents of /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases and
> /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman, and do
> /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases.db and
> /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman.db exist and have the same or
> more recent modification times as the aliases and virtual-mailman files.
>
> If not, does running Mailman's bin/genaliases fix it?
>
>   
i removed the follwiong line from main.cf and mailman works now:

mydestination=

From kkchn.cdac at gmail.com  Fri Jan 25 13:19:41 2008
From: kkchn.cdac at gmail.com (kk CHN)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:49:41 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to migrate existing lists to a new Mailman
	installation
Message-ID: <5e4d7fb90801250419o70bd8797pc7197780331338f5@mail.gmail.com>

Hi People:

 I am using mailman 2.1.9 and postfix , I want to migrate my old lists
running in another server to this new server machine , How it can be  done ?
,

  any one of you have a very  simple method OR   document for this please
let me know those :

Thanks in advance
kk

From cwieland at uci.edu  Fri Jan 25 18:59:42 2008
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:59:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] content type
Message-ID: <A376F5EE-1966-40DF-9521-DF39417C0E90@uci.edu>

Can someone explain why I got this message with no additional text in  
the message.

Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part  
--------------

From rpyne at kinfolk.org  Fri Jan 25 18:57:21 2008
From: rpyne at kinfolk.org (Richard Pyne)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:57:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalization default
Message-ID: <4799C091.29446.A3FEAA@rpyne.kinfolk.org>

I can't seem to find any way to set the personalization default. I want to 
set the default for new lists to Full Personalization. Is there a 
reasonable way to do this?

I am running Mailman 2.1.9.

Thanks.

--Richard


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jan 25 23:23:46 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:23:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalization default
In-Reply-To: <4799C091.29446.A3FEAA@rpyne.kinfolk.org>
References: <4799C091.29446.A3FEAA@rpyne.kinfolk.org>
Message-ID: <479A6172.3010107@msapiro.net>

Richard Pyne wrote:
> I can't seem to find any way to set the personalization default. I want to 
> set the default for new lists to Full Personalization. Is there a 
> reasonable way to do this?


There is no configuration setting for this. You'd need to modify the
InitVars() function in the Mailman/MailList.py module to set personalize
to either literally 2 instead of the current 0, or better, change the
current

        personalize = 0

to

        if mm_cfg.OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION:
            personalize = mm_cfg.DEFAULT_PERSONALIZE
        else:
            personalize = 0

and add

DEFAULT_PERSONALIZE = 0

along with appropriate documentation to Defaults.py.in (or Defaults.py),
and then put your desired setting in mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jan 25 23:30:48 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:30:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] content type
In-Reply-To: <A376F5EE-1966-40DF-9521-DF39417C0E90@uci.edu>
References: <A376F5EE-1966-40DF-9521-DF39417C0E90@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <479A6318.4050505@msapiro.net>

Con Wieland wrote:
> Can someone explain why I got this message with no additional text in  
> the message.
> 
> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part  
> --------------


This appears to be the result of Scrubber, so if this was an individual
list message as opposed to a plain digest or an archived message, it is
caused in part by scrub_nondigest being Yes, but regardless, the same
thing will be seen in the archive and the plain digest.

It is impossible to say for sure without seeing the original raw message
as sent TO the list, but my best guess is it was a malformed MIME
message with an elemental part with type multipart/alternative.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From justbrits at comcast.net  Sat Jan 26 05:53:35 2008
From: justbrits at comcast.net (JB@comcast)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 22:53:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Promotion
References: <mailman.18.1200999607.24975.mailman-users@python.org><BLU130-W412A5B83E8F6020FB0F83FFB380@phx.gbl><94136a2c0801240134x393253bds6e16ae55f060b71f@mail.gmail.com><p06240801c3be9717dc65@[10.0.1.2]>
	<200801250022.m0P0M9VB029245@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<BLU130-W49F33EB5EBE1A11C9B59FFB390@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <03a501c85fd7$68f0d480$6401a8c0@actualshop>

Khalil:

<<Now this is the most logical and reasonale answer I've ever got .. this is what I call: a reply from a professional.. she's right, I have no idea that this is spamming.. all I know about spamming is those who send you repeatedly every once in a while, and all I wanna do is send a simple invite and that's all.. if this is spamming, then screw it .. I'm no programmer and no whiz.. somebody gave me this huge list of emails for money and said it will make people more aware of my site if I used it to invite them ..>>

While I most POSITIVILY agree with everything everybody has said regarding your org. post and that Cyndi has had one of the better, I would like to add my .02.

If the end result that you are trying to achieve, then in MHO you need to spend a TON of time doing so.

Thake the million # List and break it into 1000 member Lists and START from there.  Yep, gonna mean that you will have to reveiw EACH member of EACH 1000 person List.

IF YOU ARE WILLING TO DO SO, IMHO you would not be a "spammer".

Ed
Please visit my web site at:  www.justbrits.com 

From paul at fpen.org  Sat Jan 26 18:42:29 2008
From: paul at fpen.org (Paul Kleeberg)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:42:29 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Having the Web interface show the same lists with
	or without the "www." prefix
Message-ID: <B3369472-C7A9-4E06-89CB-9E3A0B1C7342@fpen.org>

Here is my question:  Is there anything I can do so that the mailman  
web interface will show the same lists whether or not  the "www."  
prefix appears?

Background:  Migrated and upgraded a from MacOSX Server 10.4 to 10.5  
which included an upgrade of Mailman to 2.1.9.  Everything functioned  
well.  I have 2 virtual domains and the lists on the two domains have  
remained distinct and functioning.  Mailman's web interface responded  
to www.domain1.com and domain1.com with one set of mailing lists and www.domain2.com 
  and domain2.com as the other site.  Now that I have upgraded to  
Apache 2.2. it appears that it the 2 web pages with the lists will  
only respond to the web pages if the "www." is not included.  Is there  
anything I can do so that the web interface for each sets of lists  
will work with or without the "www." prefix?
--
Paul Kleeberg
paul at fpen.org



From raquel at thericehouse.net  Sat Jan 26 19:09:01 2008
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 10:09:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Having the Web interface show the same lists
 with or without the "www." prefix
In-Reply-To: <B3369472-C7A9-4E06-89CB-9E3A0B1C7342@fpen.org>
References: <B3369472-C7A9-4E06-89CB-9E3A0B1C7342@fpen.org>
Message-ID: <20080126100901.7f639d24.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:42:29 -0600
Paul Kleeberg <paul at fpen.org> wrote:

> Here is my question:  Is there anything I can do so that the
> mailman web interface will show the same lists whether or not  the
> "www." prefix appears?
> 
> Background:  Migrated and upgraded a from MacOSX Server 10.4 to
> 10.5 which included an upgrade of Mailman to 2.1.9.  Everything
> functioned well.  I have 2 virtual domains and the lists on the two
> domains have remained distinct and functioning.  Mailman's web
> interface responded to www.domain1.com and domain1.com with one set
> of mailing lists and www.domain2.com and domain2.com as the other
> site.  Now that I have upgraded to Apache 2.2. it appears that it
> the 2 web pages with the lists will only respond to the web pages
> if the "www." is not included.  Is there anything I can do so that
> the web interface for each sets of lists will work with or without
> the "www." prefix? --
> Paul Kleeberg

This seems to be more of a question for the Apache list, however,
what does your virtual host directive look like?

Mine ... which works:

<VirtualHost 99.999.999.999:80> 
  ServerName www.domain.com 
  ServerAlias domain.com

 -- 
Raquel
============================================================
The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is
the first and only legitimate object of good government.

  --Thomas Jefferson


From paul at fpen.org  Sat Jan 26 20:28:10 2008
From: paul at fpen.org (Paul Kleeberg)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 13:28:10 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Having the Web interface show the same lists
	with or without the "www." prefix
In-Reply-To: <20080126100901.7f639d24.raquel@thericehouse.net>
References: <B3369472-C7A9-4E06-89CB-9E3A0B1C7342@fpen.org>
	<20080126100901.7f639d24.raquel@thericehouse.net>
Message-ID: <53CAC55E-D655-45B2-9F61-4B9CEF5604F2@fpen.org>

Raquel,

That is a good question.  I tried a server alias but that did not seem  
to work with Apache 2.2 (I think it did with 1.3 but who knows! my  
memory ain't what is used to be).  All other web pages would work  
except for the Mailman lists.

However, after having a Java Stout (my favorite mid-day beverage) and  
a slice of pizza (stimulated the dormant coding neurons in my brain) I  
was struck by the obvious:

   Redirecting www.domain.com/mailman/ to domain.com/mailman/

All is well.  Thanks for the input!

Paul
--
Paul Kleeberg
paul at fpen.org


On Jan 26, 2008, at 12:09 PM, Raquel wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:42:29 -0600
> Paul Kleeberg <paul at fpen.org> wrote:
>
>> Here is my question:  Is there anything I can do so that the
>> mailman web interface will show the same lists whether or not  the
>> "www." prefix appears?
>>
>> Background:  Migrated and upgraded a from MacOSX Server 10.4 to
>> 10.5 which included an upgrade of Mailman to 2.1.9.  Everything
>> functioned well.  I have 2 virtual domains and the lists on the two
>> domains have remained distinct and functioning.  Mailman's web
>> interface responded to www.domain1.com and domain1.com with one set
>> of mailing lists and www.domain2.com and domain2.com as the other
>> site.  Now that I have upgraded to Apache 2.2. it appears that it
>> the 2 web pages with the lists will only respond to the web pages
>> if the "www." is not included.  Is there anything I can do so that
>> the web interface for each sets of lists will work with or without
>> the "www." prefix? --
>> Paul Kleeberg
>
> This seems to be more of a question for the Apache list, however,
> what does your virtual host directive look like?
>
> Mine ... which works:
>
> <VirtualHost 99.999.999.999:80>
>  ServerName www.domain.com
>  ServerAlias domain.com
>
> -- 
> Raquel
> ============================================================
> The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is
> the first and only legitimate object of good government.
>
>  --Thomas Jefferson


From raquel at thericehouse.net  Sat Jan 26 20:39:17 2008
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:39:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Having the Web interface show the same lists
 with or without the "www." prefix
In-Reply-To: <53CAC55E-D655-45B2-9F61-4B9CEF5604F2@fpen.org>
References: <B3369472-C7A9-4E06-89CB-9E3A0B1C7342@fpen.org>
	<20080126100901.7f639d24.raquel@thericehouse.net>
	<53CAC55E-D655-45B2-9F61-4B9CEF5604F2@fpen.org>
Message-ID: <20080126113917.504c992f.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 13:28:10 -0600
Paul Kleeberg <paul at fpen.org> wrote:

> Raquel,
> 
> That is a good question.  I tried a server alias but that did not
> seem to work with Apache 2.2 (I think it did with 1.3 but who
> knows! my memory ain't what is used to be).  All other web pages
> would work except for the Mailman lists.
> 
> However, after having a Java Stout (my favorite mid-day beverage)
> and a slice of pizza (stimulated the dormant coding neurons in my
> brain) I was struck by the obvious:
> 
>    Redirecting www.domain.com/mailman/ to domain.com/mailman/
> 
> All is well.  Thanks for the input!
> 
> Paul
> --

Just for a point of reference, I use Apache 2.2 and I use the server
alias directive on all my servers ... without any rewriting rules.
But, if what you did works, then why mess with it?

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one
another, until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be heard
as well as our voices.

  --Richard M. Nixon


From admin2 at enabled.com  Sat Jan 26 21:29:40 2008
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 12:29:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spamassassin sendmail virtualusers and mail
	lists
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0801091638110.6140@asimov.shanew.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0801081736490.16111-100000@gypsy.impsec.org>
	<47847AB3.10006@enabled.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0801091638110.6140@asimov.shanew.net>
Message-ID: <479B9834.2070202@enabled.com>

Hi there Shane and Mailman list users.

this is a great idea indeed but the last part of the delivery to mailman 
aint working and trying to figure out a work around to keep the gid set 
to mailnull.

I am getting the error "Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error. 
Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group 
"mailnull", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as 
group "wheel".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group 
"mailnull", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option 
`--with-mail-gid=wheel'."

any clues how I can get my specific procmailrc file to run the mailman 
mail-wrapper with the group mailnull.  Is there something funky I can do 
to my /etc/groups ?  Maybe I could recompile my program with the mailman 
  wrapper with two mailman gids?

Why does the entry:

friends-owner:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner friends"

in my /etc/mail/aliases.mailman work fine without a group error message 
in /var/log/maillog?  weird?

Here is the script that calls the mailman mail-wrapper proggie:

--- snip ----

# cat /usr/local/etc/procmailrcs/friends-owner.rc
#procmail recipe for getting rid of high-scoring mail-list spam

:0fw
*
|/usr/local/bin/spamc -f

:0e
{
    EXITCODE=$?
}

:0:
* ^X-Spam-Level:.*\*\*\*\*\*\*
/usr/local/mailman/mail/spam-mail

:0
*
|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner friends

---- snip ----

Here are my mailman compilation settings in /etc/make.conf

--- snip ----

MM_USERNAME=mailman
MM_USERID=89
MM_GROUPNAME=mailman
MM_GROUPID=89
CGI_GID=www
MAIL_GID=mailnull


---- snip ----

Cheers,

Noah


Shane Williams wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Jan 2008, Noah wrote:
> 
>> Thanks John,
>>
>> the problem is that our moderators are getting way too much mail and 
>> just want to trash the high-scoring meesages.
> 
> We filter on mailman mailing lists in a roundabout way.
> 
> We changed the mailman "post" alias to invoke a procmail script, like:
> list-blah:         "|/usr/bin/procmail -m /etc/procmailrcs/list-blah.rc"
> 
> Then, the procmail recipe 1. runs spamc, 2. /dev/nulls anything over
> 10, and 3. calls mailman "post" the way the alias used to.  I've
> included an example below.
> 
> Then, in the mailman config for that list, under privacy option ->
> Spam Filters, we added a line to the "Legacy anti-spam filter" section
> that says "X-Spam-Flag: YES" causing anything between our default
> score and 10 to get held for moderation.  You could of course, change
> these levels and take different actions if you have a more recent
> version of mailman.
> 
> Maybe that helps...
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> #procmail recipe for getting rid of high-scoring mail-list spam
> 
> :0fw
> *
> |spamc -f
> 
> :0e
> {
>    EXITCODE=$?
> }
> 
> :0:
> * ^X-Spam-Level:.*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
> /dev/null
> 
> :0
> *
> |/home/mailman/mail/mailman post list-blah
> -------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Noah
>>
>>
>> John D. Hardin wrote:
>>>  On Tue, 8 Jan 2008, Noah wrote:
>>>
>>> >  We want to run spamassassin on mail lists
>>>
>>>  If you're managing your mailing lists using Mailman, there are patches
>>>  floating around that will make mailman pass messages through SA and
>>>  hold high-scoring messages for moderation.
>>>
>>>  --
>>>   John Hardin KA7OHZ                    http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/
>>>   jhardin at impsec.org    FALaholic #11174     pgpk -a jhardin at impsec.org
>>>   key: 0xB8732E79 -- 2D8C 34F4 6411 F507 136C  AF76 D822 E6E6 B873 2E79
>>>  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>    Liberals love sex ed because it teaches kids to be safe around their
>>>    sex organs. Conservatives love gun education because it teaches kids
>>>    to be safe around guns. However, both believe that the other's
>>>    education goals lead to dangers too terrible to contemplate.
>>>  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>   9 days until Benjamin Franklin's 302nd Birthday
>>
>>
> 

From kathyg at anitaborg.org  Sat Jan 26 23:01:39 2008
From: kathyg at anitaborg.org (Kathy Gee)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 15:01:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing by adding fields to Listinfo page
Message-ID: <5B94DD3326FC4541BBE0E4777EFF32CD0655A412@VS7.EXCHPROD.USA.NET>

Hello,

 

Can I customize the Listinfo page by adding one or two fields to prompt
for more information from a subscriber?  If yes, what python script(s)
do I need to also modify to make this work so the web admin interface
can display the information entered for these new fields when the form
is submitted?

 

Thanks!

 

Kathy Gee
IT Project Specialist
Anita Borg Institute for Women and Technology
"Connecting Women and Technology"
www.anitaborg.org <http://www.anitaborg.org>  | www.gracehopper.org
<http://www.gracehopper.org>  | www.systers.org <http://www.systers.org>
| www.anitaborg.org/techleaders <http://www.anitaborg.org/techleaders>  
_________________________________________________________
1501 Page Mill Road, MS 1105, Palo Alto, CA 94304
Email: kathyg at anitaborg.org <mailto:kathyg at anitaborg.org> 
Office: 1.650.857.3901
Fax: 1.650.852.8172

 


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Jan 27 00:03:07 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:03:07 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Promotion
In-Reply-To: <03a501c85fd7$68f0d480$6401a8c0@actualshop>
References: <mailman.18.1200999607.24975.mailman-users@python.org><BLU130-W412A5B83E8F
	6020FB0F83FFB380@phx.gbl><94136a2c0801240134x393253bds6e16ae55f060b71f@mai
	l.gmail.com><p06240801c3be9717dc65@[10.0.1.2]>
	<200801250022.m0P0M9VB029245@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<BLU130-W49F33EB5EBE1A11C9B59FFB390@phx.gbl>
	<03a501c85fd7$68f0d480$6401a8c0@actualshop>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3c16be7350e@[192.168.1.199]>

On 1/25/08, JB at comcast wrote:

>  Thake the million # List and break it into 1000 member Lists and START
>  from there.  Yep, gonna mean that you will have to reveiw EACH member
>  of EACH 1000 person List.

But you can't really do that, either.  One key difference between 
spam and a proper mailing list is that you have hard confirmation 
from the recipient that they asked to get the particular content in 
question.

In other words, they signed themselves up for a list, they got a 
confirmation notice, and they then acted on the confirmation notice 
to say "yes, I really do want this content".

Any time you buy a large list of addresses from somewhere, you bypass 
the first steps of that process, and that would make you a spammer. 
Even if you just send out invitations to those people to join your 
list, and you don't send anything else to them without their explicit 
confirmation, you're still a spammer.


The Direct Marketing Association says that they just want one bite of 
your apple, no more.  But when you've got a billion people taking 
just one bite each out of your apple, do you honestly think you're 
going to have an apple left?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Jan 27 00:08:08 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:08:08 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spamassassin sendmail virtualusers and mail
 lists
In-Reply-To: <479B9834.2070202@enabled.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0801081736490.16111-100000@gypsy.impsec.org>
	<47847AB3.10006@enabled.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0801091638110.6140@asimov.shanew.net>
	<479B9834.2070202@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c3c16d0f7a6e@[192.168.1.199]>

On 1/26/08, Noah wrote:

>  any clues how I can get my specific procmailrc file to run the mailman
>  mail-wrapper with the group mailnull.

That sounds like a procmail question you should ask on their mailing 
lists.  We don't do procmail -- we do Mailman.

>                                         Is there something funky I can do
>  to my /etc/groups ?

Nope.

>                       Maybe I could recompile my program with the mailman
>  wrapper with two mailman gids?

Not possible.  A person can be listed in multiple groups (and switch 
between which group is considered the "active one"), but each file 
can have one and only one group id.


The long and short of it is that spam tagging filtering should be 
done in the MTA (not procmail), before the message gets delivered to 
Mailman.  Once Mailman receives the message, you can use the internal 
features to do further anti-spam processing based on tags that were 
placed on the message within the MTA.

Note that procmail should never be part of that pipeline.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Jan 27 00:09:35 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:09:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing by adding fields to Listinfo page
In-Reply-To: <5B94DD3326FC4541BBE0E4777EFF32CD0655A412@VS7.EXCHPROD.USA.NET>
References: <5B94DD3326FC4541BBE0E4777EFF32CD0655A412@VS7.EXCHPROD.USA.NET>
Message-ID: <p06240803c3c16ddbaa4f@[192.168.1.199]>

On 1/26/08, Kathy Gee wrote:

>  Can I customize the Listinfo page by adding one or two fields to prompt
>  for more information from a subscriber?

Not easily, no.  There's no place to store that information, even if 
you could ask for it.

>                                           If yes, what python script(s)
>  do I need to also modify to make this work so the web admin interface
>  can display the information entered for these new fields when the form
>  is submitted?

This question is probably better asked on the mailman-developers 
list.  However, before posting there, I would encourage you to check 
their archives, because I'm sure that this has come up hundreds or 
thousands of times before.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From justbrits at comcast.net  Sun Jan 27 05:52:48 2008
From: justbrits at comcast.net (JB@comcast)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 22:52:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Promotion
References: <mailman.18.1200999607.24975.mailman-users@python.org><BLU130-W412A5B83E8F
	6020FB0F83FFB380@phx.gbl><94136a2c0801240134x393253bds6e16ae55f060b71f@mai
	l.gmail.com><p06240801c3be9717dc65@[10.0.1.2]>
	<200801250022.m0P0M9VB029245@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<BLU130-W49F33EB5EBE1A11C9B59FFB390@phx.gbl>
	<03a501c85fd7$68f0d480$6401a8c0@actualshop>
	<p06240801c3c16be7350e@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <057e01c860a0$76d3b940$6401a8c0@actualshop>

<<Any time you buy a large list of addresses from somewhere, you bypass 
the first steps of that process, and that would make you a spammer. >>

Can I RETRACT my post, Brad??

Ed (properly admonished + red-faced!)

From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Sun Jan 27 06:02:10 2008
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 00:02:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ghost Moderator Requests
In-Reply-To: <479BA119.1040701@msapiro.net>
References: <20080121214513.7AEFB1E4019@bag.python.org>
	<4795267C.9020908@msapiro.net>
	<20080123233501.8DA021E400F@bag.python.org>
	<4798C696.2080707@msapiro.net>
	<20080124231200.A8E74690092@sbh16.songbird.com>
	<47992776.5060401@msapiro.net>
	<20080126143313.69CB76900BB@sbh16.songbird.com>
	<479BA119.1040701@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20080127050932.990A21E4018@bag.python.org>

Thanks for the reply.

At 04:07 PM 1/26/2008, you wrote:

>First of all, it is not clear from your prior posts whether or not you
>recognize that these held messages are all from the 'mailman' site list,
>not from your other list.

Sorry I wasn't clear but yes, I knew they were from the mailman list.


>Also this (the 'mailman' list) list's web_page_url attribute which
>reflects its url host is http://dap002.dap.localnet/mailman/ which may
>or may not be valid, but is certainly not accessable from the internet.

That is correct since I don't have a static IP. I can access the 
admin functions from the LAN. My users must do everything via email.


>Finally, these all appear to have been 'owner' bounces delivered to the
>site list last April 17.

I can see that but I have no idea what is significant about that date 
since it did not show up until after I did this restore thing.


>If you go to the admindb interface for the 'mailman' list, you should
>see these messages and be able to discard them - go to the same URL as
>the admindb interface for your other list, but with 'mailman' as the
>list name.

As I said, it tells me there are no pending requests.


>Or, you can discard them by running.
>
>path/to/mailmans/bin/discard /var/lib/mailman/data/heldmsg-mailman-*

I thought I'd give this a try and here's what I get:

[root at dap002 bin]# discard /var/lib/mailman/data/heldmsg-mailman-*
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/sbin/discard", line 120, in ?
     main()
   File "/usr/sbin/discard", line 110, in main
     mlist.HandleRequest(id, mm_cfg.DISCARD, '', False, False, '')
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 164, in HandleRequest
     rtype, data = self.__db[id]
KeyError: 113
[root at dap002 bin]#

Must be a remnant of the restore fiasco.


>Do NOT just remove the heldmsg-mailman-* files since that will remove
>the message files, but it won't stop the notices. If you have already
>removed the files, you need to either go to the admindb interface for
>the mailman list and discard them or remove the
>/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/request.pck file which will be
>automatically recreated when necessary.

Even though the above didn't work, can I do this anyway? I don't use 
that mailing list so there are no messages in it that I care about. 
Is there a way to just wipe everything manually? I guess this list is 
necessary but is there a way to wipe everything and have it rebuild 
what it needs? That should clean everything up, right?


>--
>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From support at obantec.net  Sun Jan 27 11:35:54 2008
From: support at obantec.net (Obantec Support)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 10:35:54 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] korean error
Message-ID: <008701c860d0$653c16c0$c79d0650@theta>

Hi 

FC3 running python 2.3.4 & trying to install Mailman-2.1.9

./configure (using default settings)
make install produces just this error

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/update", line 46, in ?
    import paths
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/paths.py", line 60, in ?
    import korean
ImportError: No module named korean
make: *** [update] Error 1 

I  have googled and read the FAQ's but not found a solution.

Mark

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jan 27 12:20:37 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 03:20:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ghost Moderator Requests
In-Reply-To: <20080127050932.990A21E4018@bag.python.org>
References: <20080121214513.7AEFB1E4019@bag.python.org>	<4795267C.9020908@msapiro.net>	<20080123233501.8DA021E400F@bag.python.org>	<4798C696.2080707@msapiro.net>	<20080124231200.A8E74690092@sbh16.songbird.com>	<47992776.5060401@msapiro.net>	<20080126143313.69CB76900BB@sbh16.songbird.com>	<479BA119.1040701@msapiro.net>
	<20080127050932.990A21E4018@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <479C6905.2040203@msapiro.net>

Dennis Putnam wrote:
> 
>> If you go to the admindb interface for the 'mailman' list, you should
>> see these messages and be able to discard them - go to the same URL as
>> the admindb interface for your other list, but with 'mailman' as the
>> list name.
> 
> As I said, it tells me there are no pending requests.


This is a bit of a puzzle, because it should be using the same
request.pck data as the cron/checkdbs job that sends the notice.


>> Or, you can discard them by running.
>>
>> path/to/mailmans/bin/discard /var/lib/mailman/data/heldmsg-mailman-*
> 
> I thought I'd give this a try and here's what I get:
> 
> [root at dap002 bin]# discard /var/lib/mailman/data/heldmsg-mailman-*
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "/usr/sbin/discard", line 120, in ?
>      main()
>    File "/usr/sbin/discard", line 110, in main
>      mlist.HandleRequest(id, mm_cfg.DISCARD, '', False, False, '')
>    File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 164, in HandleRequest
>      rtype, data = self.__db[id]
> KeyError: 113
> [root at dap002 bin]#
> 
> Must be a remnant of the restore fiasco.


This says the heldmsg file did not have a corresponding request.pck
entry, and presumably there are some the other way around too. I.e.
after the restore, the actual heldmsg-* files were out of sync with
request.pck entries.

> 
>> Do NOT just remove the heldmsg-mailman-* files since that will remove
>> the message files, but it won't stop the notices. If you have already
>> removed the files, you need to either go to the admindb interface for
>> the mailman list and discard them or remove the
>> /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/request.pck file which will be
>> automatically recreated when necessary.
> 
> Even though the above didn't work, can I do this anyway? I don't use 
> that mailing list so there are no messages in it that I care about. 
> Is there a way to just wipe everything manually? I guess this list is 
> necessary but is there a way to wipe everything and have it rebuild 
> what it needs? That should clean everything up, right?


I suggest you remove all the heldmsg-mailman-* files and also remove the
lists/mailman/request.pck file.  If you then go to the admindb interface
for the 'mailman' list, it should create a new, 'empty' request.pck.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From matt.l.zimmerman at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 01:47:02 2008
From: matt.l.zimmerman at gmail.com (Matt Zimmerman)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:47:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list continues to lock
Message-ID: <50852730801271647yb606153je0a94a84afc7ccc4@mail.gmail.com>

I am using mailman 2.1.8. We seemed to have a issue today with messages
being queued up in the qfiles/in. After looking more into it it seems like
one of the mailing lists and the qrunner was locked. So I removed the both
locks. But they continued to lock up. So I brute force removed all of the
locks until the messages were dequeued. The messages seem not to be queuing
any more and the qrunner is not locking. The mailing list is still locking
though. The lock logs from earlier in the day say "unexpected linkcount:-1".
Any Ideas?

Thanks,

Matt

From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Mon Jan 28 02:04:01 2008
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:04:01 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing base URL for HTML GUI
Message-ID: <p06240803c3c2d928eb72@[203.53.37.182]>

Hi again,
	Just a quick question in this one. I've been running Mailman 
for a long time (2.1.5 patched to 2.1.6 from memory) on one of my 
servers.
	In the administration & general GUI HTML pages, if I go to 
the URL & enter the password, it will then redirect me to a different 
URL that starts with the hostname of the server - for example:

http://domain.com/mailman/admin/listname (then I log in to the 
Mailman admin interface)

Click a link such as General Options which will redirect to:

http://hostname.domain.com/mailman/listname/general (also prompting 
me to relogin with password details)

	I wonder if someone could direct me as to where to correct 
this so it doesn't redirect to the server's hostname - all other 
lists on the server work fine. I am guessing this will be somewhere 
within the config for the list but I don't want to be playing around 
& ruin something. Many thanks for any assistance.
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------

From leang.chumsoben at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 02:55:54 2008
From: leang.chumsoben at gmail.com (Soben)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 08:55:54 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Post number in subject line
Message-ID: <200801280855.55723.leang.chumsoben@gmail.com>

Hello all,

Is there anyone know how to show the post number in subject line? This number 
will be increased every time the member post something to the list. I have 
tried to search through Mailman's settings but seem no luck.

Thank you in advanced

Soben

-- 
Mr. Leang Chumsoben
Coordinator Assistant of Open Learning Program
Open Institute
Phnom Penh, Cambodia
Skype, Yahoo: leang.chumsoben
Websites:
http://www.open.org.kh
http://www.khmeros.info
http://women.open.org.kh
http://cambodiamirror.wordpress.com

From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Mon Jan 28 03:40:27 2008
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 11:40:27 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Post number in subject line
In-Reply-To: <200801280855.55723.leang.chumsoben@gmail.com>
References: <200801280855.55723.leang.chumsoben@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <479D409B.8050703@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>


> Hello all,
> 
> Is there anyone know how to show the post number in subject line? This number 
> will be increased every time the member post something to the list. I have 
> tried to search through Mailman's settings but seem no luck.
> 

What is the version of your mailman?  Subject numbering feature was 
introduced in 2.1.6.  You will see the following info in 
admin->subject_prefix->detail page, if your version supports numbering:

You can also add a sequencial number by %d substitution directive. eg.; 
[listname %d] -> [listname 123] (listname %05d) -> (listname 00123)

Cheers,

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jan 28 05:43:14 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 20:43:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list continues to lock
In-Reply-To: <50852730801271647yb606153je0a94a84afc7ccc4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008012720431404063e036304@msapiro>

Matt Zimmermanwrote:

>I am using mailman 2.1.8. We seemed to have a issue today with messages
>being queued up in the qfiles/in. After looking more into it it seems like
>one of the mailing lists and the qrunner was locked. So I removed the both
>locks. But they continued to lock up. So I brute force removed all of the
>locks until the messages were dequeued. The messages seem not to be queuing
>any more and the qrunner is not locking. The mailing list is still locking
>though. The lock logs from earlier in the day say "unexpected linkcount:-1".
>Any Ideas?


Not all locks should be removed.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.076.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jan 28 05:54:27 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 20:54:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing base URL for HTML GUI
In-Reply-To: <p06240803c3c2d928eb72@[203.53.37.182]>
Message-ID: <PC17602008012720542700003e03617b@msapiro>

Terry Allen wrote:

>	In the administration & general GUI HTML pages, if I go to 
>the URL & enter the password, it will then redirect me to a different 
>URL that starts with the hostname of the server - for example:
>
>http://domain.com/mailman/admin/listname (then I log in to the 
>Mailman admin interface)
>
>Click a link such as General Options which will redirect to:
>
>http://hostname.domain.com/mailman/listname/general (also prompting 
>me to relogin with password details)
>
>	I wonder if someone could direct me as to where to correct 
>this so it doesn't redirect to the server's hostname - all other 
>lists on the server work fine. I am guessing this will be somewhere 
>within the config for the list but I don't want to be playing around 
>& ruin something. Many thanks for any assistance.


The http://hostname.domain.com/mailman/ part of that comes from a
hidden list attribute named web_page_url. To change this, you can run

  bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname -u domain.com

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=web_page_url&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search>
for more details.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Mon Jan 28 06:08:25 2008
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:08:25 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing base URL for HTML GUI
In-Reply-To: <PC17602008012720542700003e03617b@msapiro>
References: <PC17602008012720542700003e03617b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240806c3c313598f3e@[203.53.37.182]>

>Terry Allen wrote:
>
>>	In the administration & general GUI HTML pages, if I go to
>>the URL & enter the password, it will then redirect me to a different
>>URL that starts with the hostname of the server - for example:
>>
>>http://domain.com/mailman/admin/listname (then I log in to the
>>Mailman admin interface)
>>
>>Click a link such as General Options which will redirect to:
>>
>>http://hostname.domain.com/mailman/listname/general (also prompting
>>me to relogin with password details)
>>
>>	I wonder if someone could direct me as to where to correct
>>this so it doesn't redirect to the server's hostname - all other
>>lists on the server work fine. I am guessing this will be somewhere
>>within the config for the list but I don't want to be playing around
>>& ruin something. Many thanks for any assistance.
>
>
>The http://hostname.domain.com/mailman/ part of that comes from a
>hidden list attribute named web_page_url. To change this, you can run
>
>   bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname -u domain.com
>
>See
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=web_page_url&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search>
>for more details.

Hi again,
	Outstanding - many thanks Mark, worked a treat. A shame with 
the years of list archives I would have to go back & do a huge batch 
edit to remove the hostname from the archives, but they can stay that 
way, too much work. The URL will be correct now anyhow.

-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------

From rod at coate.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Jan 28 08:34:21 2008
From: rod at coate.fsnet.co.uk (Rod@freeserve)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 07:34:21 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] korean error
Message-ID: <001601c86180$3389dbc0$0302a8c0@newbuild>

Mark

I had this problem with RHEL 5, Python 2.4.3 and Mailman 2.1.9.

If you don't need Korean support, here is a workround.
Remove or comment out two lines in misc/paths.py.in before running configure..

First comment out

        import korean

Then comment out

        import korean.aliases

- otherwise you will get the same error for this file as well.

I did not need support for Korean language and/or character set.
Mailman configure and make install worked fine after that, and the installed system
appears to be OK.

I assume that the pre-installed Python on my system did not have Korean language support
installed. It would have been difficult for me to fix the Python libraries - it was easy
to remove Korean support from Mailman.

Regards

Rod


----- Original Message -----
From: "Obantec Support" <support at obantec.net>
To: <Mailman-Users at python.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 10:35 AM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] korean error


> Hi
>
> FC3 running python 2.3.4 & trying to install Mailman-2.1.9
>
> ./configure (using default settings)
> make install produces just this error
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "bin/update", line 46, in ?
>     import paths
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/paths.py", line 60, in ?
>     import korean
> ImportError: No module named korean
> make: *** [update] Error 1
>
> I  have googled and read the FAQ's but not found a solution.
>
> Mark
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rod%40coate.fsnet.co.uk
>
> Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>


From zszalbot at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 09:42:11 2008
From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:42:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DB > mailman import script?
Message-ID: <94136a2c0801280042r43e1fd30hd6c173ed55085769@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Is there a script to insert users from a mysql database into mailman?

I can do it manually but I am wondering if there is a script to load a
list of subscribers from a mysql database to a specific mailman list
and if it is one which can be automated?

Thank you in advance!

Zbigniew Szalbot

From mainashiks at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 28 13:39:34 2008
From: mainashiks at hotmail.com (Wanjiku Maina)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:39:34 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ldap
Message-ID: <BLU122-W425E65BCC194C4C8108E0ECF340@phx.gbl>


Hi does how does openldap work with mailman?
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Mon Jan 28 14:37:18 2008
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 07:37:18 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DB > mailman import script?
In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Zbigniew Szalbot" <zszalbot@gmail.com>'
	dated: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:42:11 +0100
Message-ID: <200801281337.m0SDbIBl029256@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

"Zbigniew Szalbot" <zszalbot at gmail.com> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>Is there a script to insert users from a mysql database into mailman?
>
>I can do it manually but I am wondering if there is a script to load a
>list of subscribers from a mysql database to a specific mailman list
>and if it is one which can be automated?
>
>Thank you in advance!
>
>Zbigniew Szalbot

You can create a flat file from the database and use

     sync_members -w=no -g=no -d=no -a=no -f flatfile $listname

to synch the membership list quietly (without any notification to
new subscribers or those who are unsubscribed).  I do this for many
of my lists every day via cron.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From odieresis at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 15:01:21 2008
From: odieresis at gmail.com (Odieresis [Gmail])
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:01:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman installation and WestHost account upgrade
Message-ID: <479DE031.7060708@gmail.com>

I'm a newbie and I'm experiencing problems after my provider changed my 
account.

I can't restart Mailman list service via SSH after West Host provider 
upgraded my account to 3.0.

With this upgrade they changed Python to 2.5 and now when I try to start 
Mailman with one of these two commands:

    * mailmanctl start
    * mailmanctl -s start

the answer is:

    * -sh: mailmanctl: command not found

Please send me a your comments with a way to restart correctly Mailman.

Thank you.

Francesco

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Jan 28 17:10:35 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 01:10:35 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman installation and WestHost account upgrade
In-Reply-To: <479DE031.7060708@gmail.com>
References: <479DE031.7060708@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87hcgy53t0.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Odieresis [Gmail] writes:

 > I'm a newbie and I'm experiencing problems after my provider changed my 
 > account.
 > 
 > I can't restart Mailman list service via SSH after West Host provider 
 > upgraded my account to 3.0.

This is a provider problem, not a Mailman problem.  Talk to your
provider.

If you installed Mailman yourself, the most likely cause of the
"command not found" message is that mailmanctl is a Python script
whose shebang is specific to a Python version which has been removed.
You should reinstall Mailman as this is likely to be a pervasive issue
throughout the scripts.

If your Mailman is less than the most recent, you should probably
upgrade as well.  Older Mailman installations may not cope well with
Python 2.5.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Jan 28 17:12:41 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:12:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ldap
In-Reply-To: <BLU122-W425E65BCC194C4C8108E0ECF340@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU122-W425E65BCC194C4C8108E0ECF340@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <p06240800c3c3af3afd97@[192.168.1.199]>

On 1/28/08, Wanjiku Maina wrote:

>  Hi does how does openldap work with mailman?

The same as any other database.  Create a flat file and use "sync_members".

See Barry Finkel's response on this to Zbigniew Szalbot.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jan 28 17:23:08 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 08:23:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing base URL for HTML GUI
In-Reply-To: <p06240806c3c313598f3e@[203.53.37.182]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801280823080984806e0ae0@msapiro>

Terry Allen wrote:

>	Outstanding - many thanks Mark, worked a treat. A shame with 
>the years of list archives I would have to go back & do a huge batch 
>edit to remove the hostname from the archives, but they can stay that 
>way, too much work. The URL will be correct now anyhow.


You can fix the archives automatically, but there are caveats. You fix
the archive with

  bin/arch --wipe listname

This rebuilds the HTML archive from the
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file.

The caveats are:

1) You need to check the archive for unescaped "From " lines in message
bodies which confuse bin/arch. bin/cleanarch can help with this.

2) Rebuilding the archive may result in messages being assigned new
message numbers which will result in any existing, saved URLs of
archived messages becoming invalid or retrieving the wrong message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ippaso at trashmail.net  Mon Jan 28 17:47:29 2008
From: ippaso at trashmail.net (SP)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 17:47:29 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing qrunner stops working and outgoing
 mails get stuck
Message-ID: <479E0721.1050703@trashmail.net>

Tim Bell ha scritto:

> The first thing I did when I got mailman set up was to create a private 
> test list so I could send as many test emails as I pleased without 
> bothering anyone on the real lists.  I still use it from time to time.  


Thanks for the suggestion: this is what I did yesterday. :-)
A message is sent to a test list every 2 minutes: the last sent message
was that of 13:36 so whatever happened to mailman, it happened between
13:36 and 13:38, the time of the first message which got stuck in
qfiles/out.

Here are my logs from mailman and from my MTA (qmail)... unfortunately I
can't see anything which can suggest the reason of my problem in any of
them, so my only choice is to post them all... I post only logs which
have some entry dated today, 27 Jan.

Hope that someone here can find something interesting (and helpful for
me!) :-)

Thanks,

Paso



===========  BOUNCE  ===============

Jan 27 13:10:16 2008 (2150) bounce message w/no discernable addresses:
<00a001c860dd$82803ba0$c0a8007d at Yong>
Jan 27 13:10:18 2008 (2150) forwarding unrecognized, message-id:
<00a001c860dd$82803ba0$c0a8007d at Yong>
Jan 27 13:13:13 2008 (2150) bounce message w/no discernable addresses:
<072092806173.WENEqplr048513 at 933305.>
Jan 27 13:13:13 2008 (2150) forwarding unrecognized, message-id:
<072092806173.WENEqplr048513 at 933305.>
Jan 27 13:29:15 2008 (2150) bounce message w/no discernable addresses:
<17ab201c860e0$1fb31530$d06495a8 at Tyrone>
Jan 27 13:29:15 2008 (2150) forwarding unrecognized, message-id:
<17ab201c860e0$1fb31530$d06495a8 at Tyrone>
Jan 27 13:38:33 2008 (2150) bounce message w/no discernable addresses:
<032501c860e1$66489500$4d231703 at Darryl>
Jan 27 13:38:33 2008 (2150) forwarding unrecognized, message-id:
<032501c860e1$66489500$4d231703 at Darryl>
Jan 27 13:39:02 2008 (2150) bounce message w/no discernable addresses:
<035201c860e1$8822f6c0$4d231703 at Darryl>
Jan 27 13:39:02 2008 (2150) forwarding unrecognized, message-id:
<035201c860e1$8822f6c0$4d231703 at Darryl>
Jan 27 13:41:01 2008 (2150) bounce message w/no discernable addresses:
<0bb201c857a5$c84032d0$17227e4f at Leo>
Jan 27 13:41:01 2008 (2150) forwarding unrecognized, message-id:
<0bb201c857a5$c84032d0$17227e4f at Leo>


===========  POST  ===============

Jan 27 13:18:06 2008 (2154) post to test from TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN,
size=1236, message-id=<20080127121801.24859.qmail at MYDOMAIN>, success
Jan 27 13:20:14 2008 (2154) post to test from TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN,
size=1236, message-id=<20080127122001.25001.qmail at MYDOMAIN>, success
Jan 27 13:22:04 2008 (2154) post to test from TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN,
size=1236, message-id=<20080127122201.25176.qmail at MYDOMAIN>, success
Jan 27 13:24:05 2008 (2154) post to test from TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN,
size=1236, message-id=<20080127122401.25298.qmail at MYDOMAIN>, success
Jan 27 13:26:06 2008 (2154) post to test from TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN,
size=1236, message-id=<20080127122601.25433.qmail at MYDOMAIN>, success
Jan 27 13:28:28 2008 (2154) post to test from TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN,
size=1236, message-id=<20080127122808.25870.qmail at MYDOMAIN>, success
Jan 27 13:30:59 2008 (2154) post to test from TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN,
size=1236, message-id=<20080127123017.26417.qmail at MYDOMAIN>, success
Jan 27 13:33:01 2008 (2154) post to test from TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN,
size=1236, message-id=<20080127123207.26967.qmail at MYDOMAIN>, success
Jan 27 13:34:57 2008 (2154) post to test from TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN,
size=1236, message-id=<20080127123401.27408.qmail at MYDOMAIN>, success
Jan 27 13:37:21 2008 (2154) post to test from TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN,
size=1236, message-id=<20080127123607.27936.qmail at MYDOMAIN>, success


===========  QRUNNER  ===============

Jan 27 04:00:01 2008 (2154) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.
Reopening logs.

(This is because I used to send a SIGHUP to outgoing qrunner with a cron
job every night, just in case it stopped)


===========  SMTP  ===============

Jan 27 13:20:14 2008 (2154) <20080127122001.25001.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
to test for 1 recips, completed in 7.613 seconds
Jan 27 13:22:04 2008 (2154) <20080127122201.25176.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
to test for 1 recips, completed in 1.817 seconds
Jan 27 13:24:05 2008 (2154) <20080127122401.25298.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
to test for 1 recips, completed in 1.516 seconds
Jan 27 13:26:06 2008 (2154) <20080127122601.25433.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
to test for 1 recips, completed in 3.636 seconds
Jan 27 13:28:28 2008 (2154) <20080127122808.25870.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
to test for 1 recips, completed in 9.563 seconds
Jan 27 13:29:26 2008 (2154) <mailman.1099.1201436955.2150.zvb at MYDOMAIN>
smtp to zvb for 1 recips, completed in 9.095 seconds
Jan 27 13:30:59 2008 (2154) <20080127123017.26417.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
to test for 1 recips, completed in 24.989 seconds
Jan 27 13:33:01 2008 (2154) <20080127123207.26967.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
to test for 1 recips, completed in 42.552 seconds
Jan 27 13:34:57 2008 (2154) <20080127123401.27408.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
to test for 1 recips, completed in 55.860 seconds
Jan 27 13:37:21 2008 (2154) <20080127123607.27936.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
to test for 1 recips, completed in 63.191 seconds


===========  VETTE  ===============

Jan 27 13:25:46 2008 (2152) Message discarded, msgid:
<309d801c860df$b5594880$1402a8c0 at virus61175>
Jan 27 13:28:45 2008 (2152) Message discarded, msgid:
<c8a901c860e0$01477460$c0a800c3 at Josh>
Jan 27 13:29:37 2008 (2152) Message discarded, msgid:
<17ab901c860e0$20b6f0a0$d06495a8 at Tyrone>
Jan 27 13:29:37 2008 (2152) Message discarded, msgid:
<17aae01c860e0$1f85c3a0$d06495a8 at Tyrone>
Jan 27 13:31:40 2008 (2152) Message discarded, msgid:
<34a7f01c860e0$6e7e4950$bea29718 at Leila>
Jan 27 13:31:44 2008 (2152) Message discarded, msgid:
<34a7b01c860e0$6d450600$bea29718 at Leila>
Jan 27 13:32:12 2008 (2152) Message discarded, msgid:
<34a9001c860e0$8d35e740$bea29718 at Leila>
Jan 27 13:35:58 2008 (2152) Message discarded, msgid:
<03fe01c856cb$3e873fa0$c0a800e7 at Katy>
Jan 27 13:36:17 2008 (2152) Message discarded, msgid:
<040801c856cb$47fd46b0$c0a800e7 at Katy>
Jan 27 13:37:21 2008 (2152) Message discarded, msgid:
<09ac01c857a5$404bd0f0$17227e4f at Leo>
Jan 27 13:39:10 2008 (2152) Message discarded, msgid:
<034f01c860e1$8386d960$4d231703 at Darryl>
Jan 27 13:39:10 2008 (2152) Message discarded, msgid:
<0a2d01c857a5$65666990$17227e4f at Leo>
Jan 27 13:45:30 2008 (2152) Message discarded, msgid:
<001401c860ea$df288e90$06ee7f84 at ttttsf5bzhl44n>
Jan 27 13:46:07 2008 (2152) Message discarded, msgid:
<0aa601c860e4$40105000$ed0c82d5 at Deidre>

=================  ps aux | grep -i mailman  ============


mailman   2139  0.0  0.1  13608   724 ?        Ss   Jan03   0:00
/usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start
mailman   2149  0.0  1.2  15280  6180 ?        S    Jan03   7:43
/usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   2150  0.0  1.0  14696  5160 ?        S    Jan03   7:42
/usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   2151  0.0  0.4  14376  2396 ?        S    Jan03   3:49
/usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   2152  0.0  1.3  15392  6452 ?        S    Jan03  11:04
/usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner
--runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   2153  0.0  0.4  13436  1936 ?        S    Jan03   5:35
/usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   2154  0.0  1.1  16572  5520 ?        S    Jan03   7:26
/usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner
--runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   2155  0.0  1.0  14376  5040 ?        S    Jan03   2:27
/usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   2156  0.0  0.4  14240  1964 ?        S    Jan03   0:10
/usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s






=================  QMAIL-SENT   =========================
======= almost all the mail except my test mails are spam


2008-01-27 13:36:11.158063500 new msg 232129
2008-01-27 13:36:11.158069500 info msg 232129: bytes 5005 from
<jquinn at prudentialdoss.com> qp 27935 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:36:13.701428500 starting delivery 106836: msg 232129 to
local MYDOMAIN-capigruppo at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:13.701435500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:36:13.716169500 starting delivery 106837: msg 231555 to
remote painbook.com at webspheriments.com
2008-01-27 13:36:13.716182500 status: local 1/10 remote 1/200
2008-01-27 13:36:13.716183500 new msg 232130
2008-01-27 13:36:13.716185500 info msg 232130: bytes 5122 from
<jquinn at prudentialdoss.com> qp 27925 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:36:13.739423500 starting delivery 106838: msg 232130 to
local MYDOMAIN-cal at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:13.739429500 status: local 2/10 remote 1/200
2008-01-27 13:36:13.739604500 starting delivery 106839: msg 231999 to
remote painbook.com at webspheriments.com
2008-01-27 13:36:13.739609500 status: local 2/10 remote 2/200
2008-01-27 13:36:13.766457500 starting delivery 106840: msg 229540 to
remote painbook.com at webspheriments.com
2008-01-27 13:36:13.766464500 status: local 2/10 remote 3/200
2008-01-27 13:36:13.967860500 new msg 232139
2008-01-27 13:36:13.967867500 info msg 232139: bytes 291 from
<TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN> qp 27937 uid 511
2008-01-27 13:36:13.978364500 starting delivery 106841: msg 232139 to
local MYDOMAIN-test at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:13.978372500 status: local 3/10 remote 3/200
2008-01-27 13:36:15.843941500 delivery 106838: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:36:15.843950500 status: local 2/10 remote 3/200
2008-01-27 13:36:15.843952500 end msg 232130
2008-01-27 13:36:16.764732500 delivery 106841: success: did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:36:16.764740500 status: local 1/10 remote 3/200
2008-01-27 13:36:16.764742500 end msg 232139
2008-01-27 13:36:16.786087500 delivery 106836: success: did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:36:16.786093500 status: local 0/10 remote 3/200
2008-01-27 13:36:16.786095500 end msg 232129
2008-01-27 13:36:20.801466500 delivery 106837: deferral:
Sorry,_I_couldn't_find_any_host_by_that_name._(#4.1.2)/
2008-01-27 13:36:20.801474500 status: local 0/10 remote 2/200
2008-01-27 13:36:20.801476500 delivery 106839: deferral:
Sorry,_I_couldn't_find_any_host_by_that_name._(#4.1.2)/
2008-01-27 13:36:20.801478500 status: local 0/10 remote 1/200
2008-01-27 13:36:20.801480500 delivery 106840: deferral:
Sorry,_I_couldn't_find_any_host_by_that_name._(#4.1.2)/
2008-01-27 13:36:20.801482500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:36:28.417035500 new msg 232139
2008-01-27 13:36:28.417042500 info msg 232139: bytes 4895 from
<jrapp314 at cedarville.edu> qp 27992 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:36:28.467668500 starting delivery 106842: msg 232139 to
local MYDOMAIN-hszdzlbsrkvx at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:28.467676500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:36:28.483611500 new msg 232141
2008-01-27 13:36:28.483618500 info msg 232141: bytes 5000 from
<jrapp314 at cedarville.edu> qp 27998 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:36:28.520522500 starting delivery 106843: msg 232141 to
local MYDOMAIN-gonzalesenrika at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:28.520529500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:36:28.536605500 delivery 106842: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:36:28.536612500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:36:28.536614500 end msg 232139
2008-01-27 13:36:28.544080500 new msg 232146
2008-01-27 13:36:28.544086500 info msg 232146: bytes 4907 from
<jrafert471 at hersheys.com> qp 28003 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:36:28.576432500 starting delivery 106844: msg 232146 to
local MYDOMAIN-hovgxnik at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:28.576438500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:36:28.624391500 delivery 106843: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:36:28.624401500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:36:28.624403500 end msg 232141
2008-01-27 13:36:28.660295500 delivery 106844: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:36:28.660303500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:36:28.660305500 end msg 232146
2008-01-27 13:36:28.665366500 new msg 232150
2008-01-27 13:36:28.665374500 info msg 232150: bytes 4980 from
<jrapp314 at cedarville.edu> qp 28007 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:36:28.674495500 starting delivery 106845: msg 232150 to
local MYDOMAIN-gruppo at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:28.674504500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:36:28.739182500 delivery 106845: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:36:28.739191500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:36:28.739193500 end msg 232150
2008-01-27 13:36:33.833645500 new msg 232137
2008-01-27 13:36:33.833651500 info msg 232137: bytes 4876 from
<jqyay at travelgolf.com> qp 28040 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:36:33.963488500 starting delivery 106846: msg 232137 to
local MYDOMAIN-mailman at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:33.963493500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:36:43.560879500 delivery 106846: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:36:43.560885500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:36:43.560887500 end msg 232137
2008-01-27 13:36:43.570897500 new msg 232139
2008-01-27 13:36:43.570905500 info msg 232139: bytes 5011 from
<jrafert471 at hersheys.com> qp 28045 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:36:43.645354500 starting delivery 106847: msg 232139 to
local MYDOMAIN-hszdzlbsrkvx at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:43.645361500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:36:43.645363500 new msg 232149
2008-01-27 13:36:43.645364500 info msg 232149: bytes 5169 from
<jrakers at mtco.com> qp 28081 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:36:43.696390500 starting delivery 106848: msg 232149 to
local MYDOMAIN-fs at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:43.696400500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:36:43.696402500 delivery 106847: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:36:43.696404500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:36:43.696406500 end msg 232139
2008-01-27 13:36:43.754748500 delivery 106848: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:36:43.754755500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:36:43.754757500 end msg 232149
2008-01-27 13:36:56.100050500 new msg 232139
2008-01-27 13:36:56.100371500 info msg 232139: bytes 4743 from
<jramos at 20minutos.es> qp 28123 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:36:56.116975500 starting delivery 106849: msg 232139 to
local MYDOMAIN-uiakjb at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:56.117266500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:36:56.132433500 new msg 232129
2008-01-27 13:36:56.132800500 info msg 232129: bytes 5136 from
<jrakers at mtco.com> qp 28116 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:36:56.158337500 starting delivery 106850: msg 232129 to
local MYDOMAIN-ga at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:36:56.158790500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:36:56.172853500 delivery 106849: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:36:56.173395500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:36:56.173936500 end msg 232139
2008-01-27 13:36:56.187853500 delivery 106850: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:36:56.188417500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:36:56.188921500 end msg 232129
2008-01-27 13:13:37.440653500 new msg 232140
2008-01-27 13:13:37.440661500 info msg 232140: bytes 4933 from
<jraqn at hq.com> qp 23956 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:13:37.477036500 starting delivery 106595: msg 232140 to
local MYDOMAIN-freeradius-devel-owotyv at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:13:37.477081500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:13:37.522920500 delivery 106594: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:13:37.541620500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:13:37.541626500 end msg 232128
2008-01-27 13:13:37.542810500 delivery 106595: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:13:37.542818500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:13:37.542820500 end msg 232140
2008-01-27 13:13:37.547397500 new msg 231316
2008-01-27 13:13:37.547405500 info msg 231316: bytes 3678 from
<mailman-bounces at MYDOMAIN> qp 23965 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:13:37.555521500 starting delivery 106596: msg 231316 to
local MYDOMAIN-mc at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:13:37.555529500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:13:37.695498500 delivery 106596: success:
procmail:_Couldn't_create_"/var/mail/vpopmail"/procmail:_[23973]_Sun_Jan_27_13:13:37_2008/procmail:_Assigning_"MAILDIR=/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/mc/Maildir"/procmail:_Assigning_"LOGFILE=/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/mc/procmail.log"/procmail:_Opening_"/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/mc/procmail.log"/did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:13:37.695507500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:13:37.695509500 end msg 231316
2008-01-27 13:37:00.390197500 new msg 232130
2008-01-27 13:37:00.390202500 info msg 232130: bytes 4949 from
<jrafert471 at hersheys.com> qp 28145 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:37:00.426136500 starting delivery 106851: msg 232130 to
local MYDOMAIN-infod at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:37:00.426145500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:00.542765500 delivery 106851: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:37:00.542773500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:00.542775500 end msg 232130
2008-01-27 13:37:00.747076500 new msg 232139
2008-01-27 13:37:00.747082500 info msg 232139: bytes 1395 from
<adventistve9389 at creative-plane.com> qp 28149 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:37:00.797468500 starting delivery 106852: msg 232139 to
local MYDOMAIN-sebvgc at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:37:00.797475500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:00.826458500 delivery 106852: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:37:00.826465500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:00.826467500 end msg 232139
2008-01-27 13:37:02.845422500 new msg 232130
2008-01-27 13:37:02.845430500 info msg 232130: bytes 4894 from
<jrafert471 at hersheys.com> qp 28165 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:37:02.867282500 starting delivery 106853: msg 232130 to
local MYDOMAIN-gmhu at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:37:02.867289500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:02.893949500 delivery 106853: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:37:02.893957500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:02.893959500 end msg 232130
2008-01-27 13:37:02.904499500 new msg 232128
2008-01-27 13:37:02.904504500 info msg 232128: bytes 5097 from
<jquinn at prudentialdoss.com> qp 28161 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:37:02.919415500 starting delivery 106854: msg 232128 to
local MYDOMAIN-climmichiel at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:37:02.919423500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:02.949425500 delivery 106854: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:37:02.949433500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:02.949435500 end msg 232128
2008-01-27 13:37:17.973957500 new msg 232140
2008-01-27 13:37:17.973964500 info msg 232140: bytes 5004 from
<jrapp314 at cedarville.edu> qp 28220 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:37:18.024843500 starting delivery 106855: msg 232140 to
local MYDOMAIN-gmhu at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:37:18.024851500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:19.187835500 delivery 106855: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:37:19.187841500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:19.200568500 starting delivery 106856: msg 229708 to
remote HIDDEN_EXTERNAL_ADDRESS
2008-01-27 13:37:19.200580500 status: local 0/10 remote 1/200
2008-01-27 13:37:19.200581500 end msg 232140
2008-01-27 13:37:19.211720500 new msg 232144
2008-01-27 13:37:19.211727500 info msg 232144: bytes 4921 from
<jqsvd at ter.com> qp 28225 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:37:19.297540500 starting delivery 106857: msg 232144 to
local MYDOMAIN-zvb-owner at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:37:19.297547500 status: local 1/10 remote 1/200
2008-01-27 13:37:20.579956500 delivery 106856: deferral:
206.190.53.191_failed_after_I_sent_the_message./Remote_host_said:_451_Message_temporarily_deferred_-_[70]/
2008-01-27 13:37:20.579962500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:20.826018500 new msg 232141
2008-01-27 13:37:20.826027500 info msg 232141: bytes 5026 from
<jragland at fuse.net> qp 28223 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:37:20.878151500 starting delivery 106858: msg 232141 to
local MYDOMAIN-millsaimerisa at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:37:20.878158500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:20.882654500 delivery 106858: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:37:20.882662500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:20.882664500 end msg 232141
2008-01-27 13:37:21.157840500 delivery 106857: success: did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:37:21.157849500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:21.157850500 end msg 232144
2008-01-27 13:37:21.163382500 new msg 232128
2008-01-27 13:37:21.163389500 info msg 232128: bytes 1895 from
<test-bounces at MYDOMAIN> qp 28246 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:37:21.185407500 starting delivery 106859: msg 232128 to
local MYDOMAIN-mailman-test at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:37:21.185414500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:21.185416500 delivery 106859: success: did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:37:21.185417500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:21.185419500 end msg 232128
2008-01-27 13:37:21.254274500 new msg 232149
2008-01-27 13:37:21.254283500 info msg 232149: bytes 4853 from
<jragland at fuse.net> qp 28243 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:37:21.308078500 starting delivery 106860: msg 232149 to
local MYDOMAIN-mooresmtpesxbswr at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:37:21.308084500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:21.330455500 delivery 106860: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:37:21.330462500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:21.330464500 end msg 232149
2008-01-27 13:37:27.732534500 new msg 232139
2008-01-27 13:37:27.732540500 info msg 232139: bytes 5094 from
<jrapp314 at cedarville.edu> qp 28285 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:37:27.753766500 starting delivery 106861: msg 232139 to
local MYDOMAIN-info at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:37:27.753773500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:27.784165500 delivery 106861: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:37:27.784173500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:27.784175500 end msg 232139
2008-01-27 13:37:35.365248500 new msg 232142
2008-01-27 13:37:35.365254500 info msg 232142: bytes 5000 from
<jrapp314 at cedarville.edu> qp 28333 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:37:35.387598500 starting delivery 106862: msg 232142 to
local MYDOMAIN-infod at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:37:35.387605500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:35.409312500 delivery 106862: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:37:35.409321500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:35.409323500 end msg 232142
2008-01-27 13:37:41.924897500 new msg 232142
2008-01-27 13:37:41.924907500 info msg 232142: bytes 5065 from
<jr2004 at uol.com.br> qp 28351 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:37:41.975110500 starting delivery 106863: msg 232142 to
local MYDOMAIN-qif at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:37:41.975117500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:41.999415500 delivery 106863: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:37:41.999422500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:41.999424500 end msg 232142
2008-01-27 13:37:49.686625500 new msg 232129
2008-01-27 13:37:49.686973500 info msg 232129: bytes 5028 from
<jragland at fuse.net> qp 28362 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:37:55.137142500 starting delivery 106864: msg 232129 to
local MYDOMAIN-notizie at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:37:55.137428500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:55.301245500 delivery 106864: success:
procmail:_Couldn't_create_"/var/mail/vpopmail"/procmail:_[28399]_Sun_Jan_27_13:37:55_2008/procmail:_Assigning_"MAILDIR=/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/notizie/Maildir"/procmail:_Assigning_"LOGFILE=/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/notizie/procmail.log"/procmail:_Opening_"/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/notizie/procmail.log"/did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:37:55.301885500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:55.302450500 end msg 232129
2008-01-27 13:37:55.303222500 new msg 232150
2008-01-27 13:37:55.303494500 info msg 232150: bytes 4949 from
<jramos at 20minutos.es> qp 28386 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:37:55.355206500 starting delivery 106865: msg 232150 to
local MYDOMAIN-uweia at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:37:55.355505500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:55.370020500 new msg 232149
2008-01-27 13:37:55.370332500 info msg 232149: bytes 4951 from
<jqyay at travelgolf.com> qp 28383 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:37:55.395926500 starting delivery 106866: msg 232149 to
local MYDOMAIN-meggithaler at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:37:55.396228500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:55.410471500 delivery 106865: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:37:55.411083500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:55.411620500 end msg 232150
2008-01-27 13:37:55.440438500 delivery 106866: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:37:55.483851500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:55.484345500 end msg 232149
2008-01-27 13:37:56.449041500 new msg 231909
2008-01-27 13:37:56.449047500 info msg 231909: bytes 4979 from
<jrakers at mtco.com> qp 28410 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:37:56.491199500 starting delivery 106867: msg 231909 to
local MYDOMAIN-fs at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:37:56.491207500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:56.513523500 delivery 106867: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:37:56.513532500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:37:56.513534500 end msg 231909
2008-01-27 02:13:38.890632500 new msg 229720
2008-01-27 02:13:38.890638500 info msg 229720: bytes 5282 from
<jr at drillerssupply.com> qp 30272 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:13:38.855855500 new msg 231316
2008-01-27 13:13:38.855863500 info msg 231316: bytes 1673 from
<attelijkabawk at agosd.org> qp 23976 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:13:38.863330500 starting delivery 106597: msg 231316 to
local MYDOMAIN-uucp at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:13:38.863336500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:13:38.926690500 delivery 106597: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:13:38.926697500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:13:38.926699500 end msg 231316
2008-01-27 13:38:00.870266500 new msg 232130
2008-01-27 13:38:00.870273500 info msg 232130: bytes 4762 from
<jrafert471 at hersheys.com> qp 28419 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:38:00.891481500 starting delivery 106868: msg 232130 to
local MYDOMAIN-jaquenettawiatt at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:38:00.891487500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:00.920009500 delivery 106868: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:38:00.920017500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:00.920019500 end msg 232130
2008-01-27 13:38:05.268085500 new msg 232130
2008-01-27 13:38:05.268092500 info msg 232130: bytes 5078 from
<jrakers at mtco.com> qp 28425 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:38:05.325911500 starting delivery 106869: msg 232130 to
local MYDOMAIN-fs at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:38:05.325917500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:06.737068500 delivery 106869: success:
procmail:_Couldn't_create_"/var/mail/vpopmail"/procmail:_[28454]_Sun_Jan_27_13:38:06_2008/procmail:_Assigning_"MAILDIR=/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/fs/Maildir"/procmail:_Assigning_"LOGFILE=/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/fs/procmail.log"/procmail:_Opening_"/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/fs/procmail.log"/did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:38:06.737077500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:06.737079500 end msg 232130
2008-01-27 13:38:06.743687500 new msg 232138
2008-01-27 13:38:06.743694500 info msg 232138: bytes 5047 from
<jrapp314 at cedarville.edu> qp 28443 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:38:06.794904500 starting delivery 106870: msg 232138 to
local MYDOMAIN-infodd at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:38:06.794910500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:06.797258500 delivery 106870: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:38:06.797266500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:06.797268500 end msg 232138
2008-01-27 13:38:06.798999500 new msg 232149
2008-01-27 13:38:06.799006500 info msg 232149: bytes 291 from
<TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN> qp 28437 uid 511
2008-01-27 13:38:06.824979500 starting delivery 106871: msg 232149 to
local MYDOMAIN-test at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:38:06.824986500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:08.511684500 delivery 106871: success: did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:38:08.511691500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:08.511692500 end msg 232149
2008-01-27 13:38:21.766375500 new msg 232142
2008-01-27 13:38:21.766382500 info msg 232142: bytes 4863 from
<jrapp314 at cedarville.edu> qp 28506 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:38:21.806125500 starting delivery 106872: msg 232142 to
local MYDOMAIN-jaquenettawiatt at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:38:21.806130500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:21.817952500 new msg 232140
2008-01-27 13:38:21.817963500 info msg 232140: bytes 5043 from
<jr2004 at uol.com.br> qp 28500 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:38:21.883029500 starting delivery 106873: msg 232140 to
local MYDOMAIN-catchallnn at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:38:21.883036500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:21.883038500 delivery 106872: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:38:21.883040500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:21.883042500 end msg 232142
2008-01-27 13:38:21.908417500 delivery 106873: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:38:21.908428500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:21.908430500 end msg 232140
2008-01-27 13:38:32.057960500 new msg 232130
2008-01-27 13:38:32.057967500 info msg 232130: bytes 4807 from
<jramos at 20minutos.es> qp 28533 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:38:32.099926500 starting delivery 106874: msg 232130 to
local MYDOMAIN-zvb-bounces at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:38:32.099933500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:32.153416500 new msg 232141
2008-01-27 13:38:32.153425500 info msg 232141: bytes 5033 from
<jqsvd at ter.com> qp 28539 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:38:32.167114500 starting delivery 106875: msg 232141 to
local MYDOMAIN-zvb-request at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:38:32.167124500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:32.206643500 delivery 106875: success:
procmail:_[28548]_Sun_Jan_27_13:38:32_2008/procmail:_Assigning_"MAILDIR=/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/mailmanspam/Maildir/.zvb"/procmail:_Couldn't_chdir_to_"/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/mailmanspam/Maildir/.zvb"/procmail:_Assigning_"MAILDIR=."/procmail:_Assigning_"LOGFILE=/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/procmail-mailman.log"/procmail:_Opening_"/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/procmail-mailman.log"/did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:38:32.206655500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:32.206740500 end msg 232141
2008-01-27 13:38:32.312694500 new msg 232144
2008-01-27 13:38:32.312699500 info msg 232144: bytes 5043 from
<jr2004 at uol.com.br> qp 28536 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:38:32.364072500 starting delivery 106876: msg 232144 to
local MYDOMAIN-re at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:38:32.364079500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:32.365545500 new msg 232142
2008-01-27 13:38:32.365553500 info msg 232142: bytes 4932 from
<jramos at 20minutos.es> qp 28542 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:38:32.408993500 starting delivery 106877: msg 232142 to
local MYDOMAIN-sp-request at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:38:32.409002500 status: local 3/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:32.409004500 delivery 106876: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:38:32.409006500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:32.409008500 end msg 232144
2008-01-27 13:38:32.490732500 delivery 106877: success:
procmail:_[28556]_Sun_Jan_27_13:38:32_2008/procmail:_Assigning_"MAILDIR=/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/mailmanspam/Maildir/.sp"/procmail:_Couldn't_chdir_to_"/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/mailmanspam/Maildir/.sp"/procmail:_Assigning_"MAILDIR=."/procmail:_Assigning_"LOGFILE=/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/procmail-mailman.log"/procmail:_Opening_"/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/procmail-mailman.log"/did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:38:32.490743500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:32.490837500 end msg 232142
2008-01-27 13:38:32.898991500 delivery 106874: success: did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:38:32.898998500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:32.899000500 end msg 232130
2008-01-27 13:38:43.941309500 new msg 232141
2008-01-27 13:38:43.941315500 info msg 232141: bytes 4977 from
<jqsvd at ter.com> qp 28591 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:38:44.002411500 starting delivery 106878: msg 232141 to
local MYDOMAIN-zvb-subscribe at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:38:44.002416500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:44.020049500 delivery 106878: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:38:44.020057500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:44.020059500 end msg 232141
2008-01-27 13:38:53.524582500 new msg 232141
2008-01-27 13:38:53.524587500 info msg 232141: bytes 4856 from
<jragland at fuse.net> qp 28631 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:38:53.573159500 starting delivery 106879: msg 232141 to
local MYDOMAIN-owotyv at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:38:53.573174500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:53.574618500 new msg 232142
2008-01-27 13:38:53.574627500 info msg 232142: bytes 4980 from
<jr2004 at uol.com.br> qp 28625 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:38:53.629800500 starting delivery 106880: msg 232142 to
local MYDOMAIN-catchallk at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:38:53.629807500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:53.629809500 delivery 106879: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:38:53.629812500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:53.629813500 end msg 232141
2008-01-27 13:38:53.631091500 new msg 232144
2008-01-27 13:38:53.631098500 info msg 232144: bytes 4893 from
<jramos at 20minutos.es> qp 28628 uid 509
2008-01-27 13:38:53.678298500 starting delivery 106881: msg 232144 to
local MYDOMAIN-sp-bounces at MYDOMAIN
2008-01-27 13:38:53.678309500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:53.678311500 delivery 106880: success:
user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
2008-01-27 13:38:53.678313500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
2008-01-27 13:38:53.678315500 end msg 232142


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Mon Jan 28 17:56:09 2008
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:56:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] korean error
In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Obantec Support" <support@obantec.net>'
	dated: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 10:35:54 -0000
Message-ID: <200801281656.m0SGu9M1004695@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

"Obantec Support" <support at obantec.net> wrote:

>Hi 
>
>FC3 running python 2.3.4 & trying to install Mailman-2.1.9
>
>./configure (using default settings)
>make install produces just this error
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "bin/update", line 46, in ?
>    import paths
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/paths.py", line 60, in ?
>    import korean
>ImportError: No module named korean
>make: *** [update] Error 1 
>
>I  have googled and read the FAQ's but not found a solution.

In addition to the reply that has been posted, here is mine.
I do not know about FC3 and how it packages/patches Mailman.
I have looked at Debian/Ubuntu, which, in error, deletes pythonlib
due to an error that someone reported.  When I built a 2.1.9 Mailman
package for Ubuntu, I discarded all but one of the Debian/Ubuntu
patches and commented the

     rmdir debian/$(package)/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib

line in the debian/rules file.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mi+mailman at aldan.algebra.com  Mon Jan 28 18:58:36 2008
From: mi+mailman at aldan.algebra.com (Mikhail T.)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:58:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
Message-ID: <200801281258.37124.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>

Hello!

Our site uses mailman to host many mailing lists. Sometimes a person would 
find it necessary to post to several of the lists at once incurring 
irritation of the subscribers for the following reasons:

 1. People subscribed to more than one list will get the same message
    multiple times.
 2. The same message will be stored in multiple archives increasing their
    size.
 3. The same message will come up multiple times in subsequent searches
    through the archives.

Can our mailman installation be tweaked to eliminate all or some of the above 
undesirable effects? Thanks,

 -mi

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Jan 28 20:15:04 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 13:15:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <200801281258.37124.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
References: <200801281258.37124.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3c3d8a2b216@[192.168.1.199]>

On 1/28/08, Mikhail T. wrote:

>  Can our mailman installation be tweaked to eliminate all or some of the above
>  undesirable effects? Thanks,

Not without source-code level modifications, no.

The elimination of duplicates being sent to individuals is something 
that might be implemented in a future version of Mailman, but that 
would require that each list have complete knowledge of who all the 
overlapping subscribers are for all the other lists that are known 
recipients of the message.  And that would still break down if the 
sender created one message and sent it to one list, then took the 
same message and sent it separately to another list, etc....

Moreover, the list can't know that fredjbloggs at example.com is the 
same person as fred at example.net on another list, although future 
versions of Mailman will allow people the option of registering 
multiple different e-mail addresses that are all associated with the 
same identity, so if they choose to make use of that function, you 
would at least have a better chance.

Either way, I wouldn't look for these features to arrive before the 
mythical Mailman3 that we occasionally hear about.

OTOH, I'm not sure that this is something that should ever be the 
responsibility of the mailing list software.  The complete 
suppression of duplicates is something that can only be done 
conclusively by the receiver, and not the sender.


As for the rest, the message was sent to multiple lists, and 
therefore it should definitely show up in multiple archives.  I don't 
think that you're going to find any way around that one.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jan 28 22:31:55 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 13:31:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c3c3d8a2b216@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801281331550906c7ad8501@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>On 1/28/08, Mikhail T. wrote:
>
>>  Can our mailman installation be tweaked to eliminate all or some of the above
>>  undesirable effects? Thanks,
>
>Not without source-code level modifications, no.


In Mailman 2.1.10, there is a new sibling lists feature that can be
used to reduce or eliminate duplicates sent to members of multiple
cross-posted lists.

You can for example put listb at example.com in the regular_exclude_lists
attribute of lista at example.com. Then, if a post addresses both
lista at example.com and listb at example.com, those addresses which are
regular members of both lista at example.com and listb at example.com with
delivery enabled will not be sent the post from lista at example.com.

The rest of Brad's reply is right on.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mi+mailman at aldan.algebra.com  Mon Jan 28 22:40:37 2008
From: mi+mailman at aldan.algebra.com (Mikhail T.)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:40:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c3c3d8a2b216@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <200801281258.37124.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
	<p06240801c3c3d8a2b216@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <200801281640.40303.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>

????????? 28 ?????? 2008 02:15 ??, Brad Knowles ?? ????????:
> The elimination of duplicates being sent to individuals is something
> that might be implemented in a future version of Mailman, but that
> would require that each list have complete knowledge of who all the
> overlapping subscribers are for all the other lists that are known
> recipients of the message.

Yes, of course. But a single mailman installation hosting multiple mailing 
lists already has the complete knowledge, does not it?

> And that would still break down if the sender created one message and sent
> it to one list, then took the same message and sent it separately to another
> list, etc.... 

Yes, absolutely -- the only key is Message-Id. Even if a hash of the message 
body /could/ be used as the key, I think, a different Message-Id means, the 
message should be sent again.

> although future versions of Mailman will allow people the option of
> registering multiple different e-mail addresses that are all associated with
> the same identity, so if they choose to make use of that function, you
> would at least have a better chance.

I think, this function is already here. When I first sent message to this 
list, it bounced, because I was not a subscriber. The bounce suggested, that 
I subscribe ALL of my addresses and mark some of them as "NOMAIL". This would 
seem to indicate, that multiple addresses-per-person feature is already 
established.

> OTOH, I'm not sure that this is something that should ever be the
> responsibility of the mailing list software. ?The complete
> suppression of duplicates is something that can only be done
> conclusively by the receiver, and not the sender.

This is true. But if /most/ duplicates are eliminated by this, then the 
remaining /few/ may be acceptable to allow cross-posting to relevant mailing 
lists.

> As for the rest, the message was sent to multiple lists, and
> therefore it should definitely show up in multiple archives. ?I don't
> think that you're going to find any way around that one.

AFAIU, the message will appear in the search results multiple times -- once 
per mailing list. That is not justified -- the results should contain no 
repetitions...

Yours,

 -mi

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jan 28 23:16:46 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:16:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <200801281640.40303.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801281416460062c7ad81ac@msapiro>

Mikhail T. wrote:
>
>Yes, of course. But a single mailman installation hosting multiple mailing 
>lists already has the complete knowledge, does not it?


See my reply to Brad's reply.

<snip>
>I think, this function is already here. When I first sent message to this 
>list, it bounced, because I was not a subscriber. The bounce suggested, that 
>I subscribe ALL of my addresses and mark some of them as "NOMAIL". This would 
>seem to indicate, that multiple addresses-per-person feature is already 
>established.


This is not true 'multiple addresses per person'. This is just a bunch
of addresses, some of which don't receive list mail. Mailman currently
has no way to know which if any of these addresses belong to the same
user.

The concept to be implemented in Mailman 3.0 is a separate user
database which has an entry per person with perhaps multiple email
addresses and various roles such as member of list1, owner of list2
and moderator of list3


<snip>
>AFAIU, the message will appear in the search results multiple times -- once 
>per mailing list. That is not justified -- the results should contain no 
>repetitions...


For as many people who feel as you do, I'll wager that there are many
more who feel it is absolutely wrong to not archive a post to lista in
lista's archive just because it also was possibly archived in listb's
archive.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mi+mailman at aldan.algebra.com  Mon Jan 28 23:26:32 2008
From: mi+mailman at aldan.algebra.com (Mikhail Teterin)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 17:26:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
Message-ID: <200801281726.32676.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>

????????? 28 ?????? 2008 05:16 ??, Mark Sapiro ?? ????????:
> > AFAIU, the message will appear in the search results multiple times --
> > once per mailing list. That is not justified -- the results should
> > contain no repetitions...
>
> For as many people who feel as you do, I'll wager that there are many
> more who feel it is absolutely wrong to not archive a post to lista in
> lista's archive just because it also was possibly archived in listb's
> archive.

Well, depending on the archival method, a message can appear in both, with
only a single copy of it being stored. This can be achived, for example,
using symbolic (or even hard) links. Similarly, if a relational database is
employed, the same message can be referred to from multiple places.

Hardlinks, for example, is how one IMAP-server (cyrus, I believe) stores
messages sent to multiple recipients.

But I was referring to search-results only. Regardless of how the messages
are stored, if I type the search string and select several of the mailing
list archives to search through, the same message may appear in my search
results more than once. That duplication should not happen -- I don't think,
anyone would disagree.

Yours,

 -mi

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Mon Jan 28 23:57:30 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:57:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <200801281726.32676.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
References: <200801281726.32676.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <200801282258.m0SMvOr0030092@unreal.eroded.org>

Mikhail Teterin wrote:
>Well, depending on the archival method, a message can appear in 
>both, with only a single copy of it being stored. This can be 
>achived, for example, using symbolic (or even hard) links. 
>Similarly, if a relational database is employed, the same message 
>can be referred to from multiple places. Hardlinks, for example, is 
>how one IMAP-server (cyrus, I believe) stores messages sent to 
>multiple recipients. But I was referring to search-results only. 
>Regardless of how the messages are stored, if I type the search 
>string and select several of the mailing list archives to search 
>through, the same message may appear in my search results more than 
>once. That duplication should not happen -- I don't think, anyone 
>would disagree.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

I disagree. Completely.

I think you are trying to convince everyone your way is the only 
proper way to do it and I don't think you are seeing the wider issues here.

First, there is no search facility built into mailman. Any such 
functionality is due to use of a third-party search facility either 
integrated into mailman by whoever installed it or through a source 
such as Google's site indexing.

Second, if a message is stored in multiple archives then it SHOULD 
show up in the search results if you search those multiple archives. 
It should only appear once if you search only a single archive. If 
you use the default pipermail archiver or something like mhonarc to 
archive your list traffic, those separate hits in each list archive 
could indeed be different in that the thread links and previous post 
and next post links in them may (most likely will) point to different 
places as people reply to the message.

Doing anything else is, IMO, both unnecessarily complex and may serve 
to obscure the relationship of posts in a thread within a single list.

It would really be a nightmare to implement a multi-list-aware 
archiving system and search system. How do you keep track of what 
posts are stored where and which ones link to them in the forward and 
backward directions for each list (and those things ARE list 
dependent) if you only store a single copy? I know this can be 
implemented in a sophisticated RDBMS system but that requires a lot 
more complexity and having to install and run yet another software component.

Just remember, you didn't pay anything for the right to use the 
mailman software, it is freely available under the GPL and both 
written and maintained by volunteers. Feature requests are just that, 
requests, not mandates. The developers may choose to implement 
something or they may not. The fact that one of the core developers 
(Mark Sapiro) is telling you that his is not desirable should be an 
indication that the way it functions is probably not going to change. 
Which leaves you with basically two options, develop the changes you 
want yourself or live with the way it works.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 29 00:02:01 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:02:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing qrunner stops working and
	outgoingmails get stuck
In-Reply-To: <479E0721.1050703@trashmail.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602008012815020108593f56aa1c@msapiro>

SP wrote:
>
>Thanks for the suggestion: this is what I did yesterday. :-)
>A message is sent to a test list every 2 minutes: the last sent message
>was that of 13:36 so whatever happened to mailman, it happened between
>13:36 and 13:38, the time of the first message which got stuck in
>qfiles/out.
>
>Here are my logs from mailman and from my MTA (qmail)... unfortunately I
>can't see anything which can suggest the reason of my problem in any of
>them, so my only choice is to post them all... I post only logs which
>have some entry dated today, 27 Jan.
>
>Hope that someone here can find something interesting (and helpful for
>me!) :-)
>
>===========  BOUNCE  ===============
>


nothing relevant here


>
>===========  POST  ===============
>
<snip>
>Jan 27 13:37:21 2008 (2154) post to test from TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN,
>size=1236, message-id=<20080127123607.27936.qmail at MYDOMAIN>, success

The last post processed by Mailman. The next one isn't logged as it is
still in the queue.

>
>
>===========  QRUNNER  ===============
>


unfortunately, nothing relevant here.

>
>
>===========  SMTP  ===============
>
>Jan 27 13:20:14 2008 (2154) <20080127122001.25001.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
>to test for 1 recips, completed in 7.613 seconds
>Jan 27 13:22:04 2008 (2154) <20080127122201.25176.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
>to test for 1 recips, completed in 1.817 seconds
>Jan 27 13:24:05 2008 (2154) <20080127122401.25298.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
>to test for 1 recips, completed in 1.516 seconds
>Jan 27 13:26:06 2008 (2154) <20080127122601.25433.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
>to test for 1 recips, completed in 3.636 seconds
>Jan 27 13:28:28 2008 (2154) <20080127122808.25870.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
>to test for 1 recips, completed in 9.563 seconds
>Jan 27 13:29:26 2008 (2154) <mailman.1099.1201436955.2150.zvb at MYDOMAIN>
>smtp to zvb for 1 recips, completed in 9.095 seconds
>Jan 27 13:30:59 2008 (2154) <20080127123017.26417.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
>to test for 1 recips, completed in 24.989 seconds
>Jan 27 13:33:01 2008 (2154) <20080127123207.26967.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
>to test for 1 recips, completed in 42.552 seconds
>Jan 27 13:34:57 2008 (2154) <20080127123401.27408.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
>to test for 1 recips, completed in 55.860 seconds
>Jan 27 13:37:21 2008 (2154) <20080127123607.27936.qmail at MYDOMAIN> smtp
>to test for 1 recips, completed in 63.191 seconds


This is highly suspicious. The times above are the time from start to
finish of the SMTP interaction with Qmail.  These times, particularly
the last few are HUGE. Why?



>===========  VETTE  ===============
>


nothing relevant here

>
>=================  ps aux | grep -i mailman  ============
>
>
>mailman   2139  0.0  0.1  13608   724 ?        Ss   Jan03   0:00
>/usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start
>mailman   2149  0.0  1.2  15280  6180 ?        S    Jan03   7:43
>/usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   2150  0.0  1.0  14696  5160 ?        S    Jan03   7:42
>/usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   2151  0.0  0.4  14376  2396 ?        S    Jan03   3:49
>/usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   2152  0.0  1.3  15392  6452 ?        S    Jan03  11:04
>/usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner
>--runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   2153  0.0  0.4  13436  1936 ?        S    Jan03   5:35
>/usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   2154  0.0  1.1  16572  5520 ?        S    Jan03   7:26
>/usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner
>--runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s


OutgoingRunner appears normal.


>mailman   2155  0.0  1.0  14376  5040 ?        S    Jan03   2:27
>/usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   2156  0.0  0.4  14240  1964 ?        S    Jan03   0:10
>/usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
>
>
>
>
>
>
>=================  QMAIL-SENT   =========================
>======= almost all the mail except my test mails are spam


See my comments interspersed in these log entries.



>
>
<snip>
>2008-01-27 13:36:13.967860500 new msg 232139
>2008-01-27 13:36:13.967867500 info msg 232139: bytes 291 from
><TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN> qp 27937 uid 511
>2008-01-27 13:36:13.978364500 starting delivery 106841: msg 232139 to
>local MYDOMAIN-test at MYDOMAIN


The above is the post to your list.


>2008-01-27 13:36:13.978372500 status: local 3/10 remote 3/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:15.843941500 delivery 106838: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:36:15.843950500 status: local 2/10 remote 3/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:15.843952500 end msg 232130
>2008-01-27 13:36:16.764732500 delivery 106841: success: did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:36:16.764740500 status: local 1/10 remote 3/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:16.764742500 end msg 232139


And the completion of its delivery.



>2008-01-27 13:36:16.786087500 delivery 106836: success: did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:36:16.786093500 status: local 0/10 remote 3/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:16.786095500 end msg 232129


Somewhere around here (13:37:21 minus 00:01:03.191) OutgoingRunner
started SMTP delivery of the post to Qmail.


>2008-01-27 13:36:20.801466500 delivery 106837: deferral:
>Sorry,_I_couldn't_find_any_host_by_that_name._(#4.1.2)/
>2008-01-27 13:36:20.801474500 status: local 0/10 remote 2/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:20.801476500 delivery 106839: deferral:
>Sorry,_I_couldn't_find_any_host_by_that_name._(#4.1.2)/
>2008-01-27 13:36:20.801478500 status: local 0/10 remote 1/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:20.801480500 delivery 106840: deferral:
>Sorry,_I_couldn't_find_any_host_by_that_name._(#4.1.2)/
>2008-01-27 13:36:20.801482500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.417035500 new msg 232139
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.417042500 info msg 232139: bytes 4895 from
><jrapp314 at cedarville.edu> qp 27992 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.467668500 starting delivery 106842: msg 232139 to
>local MYDOMAIN-hszdzlbsrkvx at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.467676500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.483611500 new msg 232141
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.483618500 info msg 232141: bytes 5000 from
><jrapp314 at cedarville.edu> qp 27998 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.520522500 starting delivery 106843: msg 232141 to
>local MYDOMAIN-gonzalesenrika at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.520529500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.536605500 delivery 106842: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.536612500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.536614500 end msg 232139
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.544080500 new msg 232146
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.544086500 info msg 232146: bytes 4907 from
><jrafert471 at hersheys.com> qp 28003 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.576432500 starting delivery 106844: msg 232146 to
>local MYDOMAIN-hovgxnik at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.576438500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.624391500 delivery 106843: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.624401500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.624403500 end msg 232141
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.660295500 delivery 106844: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.660303500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.660305500 end msg 232146
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.665366500 new msg 232150
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.665374500 info msg 232150: bytes 4980 from
><jrapp314 at cedarville.edu> qp 28007 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.674495500 starting delivery 106845: msg 232150 to
>local MYDOMAIN-gruppo at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.674504500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.739182500 delivery 106845: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.739191500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:28.739193500 end msg 232150
>2008-01-27 13:36:33.833645500 new msg 232137
>2008-01-27 13:36:33.833651500 info msg 232137: bytes 4876 from
><jqyay at travelgolf.com> qp 28040 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:36:33.963488500 starting delivery 106846: msg 232137 to
>local MYDOMAIN-mailman at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:36:33.963493500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:43.560879500 delivery 106846: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:36:43.560885500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:43.560887500 end msg 232137
>2008-01-27 13:36:43.570897500 new msg 232139
>2008-01-27 13:36:43.570905500 info msg 232139: bytes 5011 from
><jrafert471 at hersheys.com> qp 28045 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:36:43.645354500 starting delivery 106847: msg 232139 to
>local MYDOMAIN-hszdzlbsrkvx at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:36:43.645361500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:43.645363500 new msg 232149
>2008-01-27 13:36:43.645364500 info msg 232149: bytes 5169 from
><jrakers at mtco.com> qp 28081 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:36:43.696390500 starting delivery 106848: msg 232149 to
>local MYDOMAIN-fs at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:36:43.696400500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:43.696402500 delivery 106847: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:36:43.696404500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:43.696406500 end msg 232139
>2008-01-27 13:36:43.754748500 delivery 106848: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:36:43.754755500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:43.754757500 end msg 232149
>2008-01-27 13:36:56.100050500 new msg 232139
>2008-01-27 13:36:56.100371500 info msg 232139: bytes 4743 from
><jramos at 20minutos.es> qp 28123 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:36:56.116975500 starting delivery 106849: msg 232139 to
>local MYDOMAIN-uiakjb at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:36:56.117266500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:56.132433500 new msg 232129
>2008-01-27 13:36:56.132800500 info msg 232129: bytes 5136 from
><jrakers at mtco.com> qp 28116 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:36:56.158337500 starting delivery 106850: msg 232129 to
>local MYDOMAIN-ga at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:36:56.158790500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:56.172853500 delivery 106849: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:36:56.173395500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:56.173936500 end msg 232139
>2008-01-27 13:36:56.187853500 delivery 106850: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:36:56.188417500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:36:56.188921500 end msg 232129


Why the discontinuity in timestamps here?


>2008-01-27 13:13:37.440653500 new msg 232140
>2008-01-27 13:13:37.440661500 info msg 232140: bytes 4933 from
><jraqn at hq.com> qp 23956 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:13:37.477036500 starting delivery 106595: msg 232140 to
>local MYDOMAIN-freeradius-devel-owotyv at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:13:37.477081500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:13:37.522920500 delivery 106594: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:13:37.541620500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:13:37.541626500 end msg 232128
>2008-01-27 13:13:37.542810500 delivery 106595: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:13:37.542818500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:13:37.542820500 end msg 232140
>2008-01-27 13:13:37.547397500 new msg 231316
>2008-01-27 13:13:37.547405500 info msg 231316: bytes 3678 from
><mailman-bounces at MYDOMAIN> qp 23965 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:13:37.555521500 starting delivery 106596: msg 231316 to
>local MYDOMAIN-mc at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:13:37.555529500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:13:37.695498500 delivery 106596: success:
>procmail:_Couldn't_create_"/var/mail/vpopmail"/procmail:_[23973]_Sun_Jan_27_13:13:37_2008/procmail:_Assigning_"MAILDIR=/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/mc/Maildir"/procmail:_Assigning_"LOGFILE=/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/mc/procmail.log"/procmail:_Opening_"/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/mc/procmail.log"/did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:13:37.695507500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:13:37.695509500 end msg 231316


End timstamps out of sequence.


>2008-01-27 13:37:00.390197500 new msg 232130
>2008-01-27 13:37:00.390202500 info msg 232130: bytes 4949 from
><jrafert471 at hersheys.com> qp 28145 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:37:00.426136500 starting delivery 106851: msg 232130 to
>local MYDOMAIN-infod at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:37:00.426145500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:00.542765500 delivery 106851: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:37:00.542773500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:00.542775500 end msg 232130
>2008-01-27 13:37:00.747076500 new msg 232139
>2008-01-27 13:37:00.747082500 info msg 232139: bytes 1395 from
><adventistve9389 at creative-plane.com> qp 28149 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:37:00.797468500 starting delivery 106852: msg 232139 to
>local MYDOMAIN-sebvgc at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:37:00.797475500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:00.826458500 delivery 106852: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:37:00.826465500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:00.826467500 end msg 232139
>2008-01-27 13:37:02.845422500 new msg 232130
>2008-01-27 13:37:02.845430500 info msg 232130: bytes 4894 from
><jrafert471 at hersheys.com> qp 28165 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:37:02.867282500 starting delivery 106853: msg 232130 to
>local MYDOMAIN-gmhu at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:37:02.867289500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:02.893949500 delivery 106853: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:37:02.893957500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:02.893959500 end msg 232130
>2008-01-27 13:37:02.904499500 new msg 232128
>2008-01-27 13:37:02.904504500 info msg 232128: bytes 5097 from
><jquinn at prudentialdoss.com> qp 28161 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:37:02.919415500 starting delivery 106854: msg 232128 to
>local MYDOMAIN-climmichiel at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:37:02.919423500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:02.949425500 delivery 106854: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:37:02.949433500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:02.949435500 end msg 232128
>2008-01-27 13:37:17.973957500 new msg 232140
>2008-01-27 13:37:17.973964500 info msg 232140: bytes 5004 from
><jrapp314 at cedarville.edu> qp 28220 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:37:18.024843500 starting delivery 106855: msg 232140 to
>local MYDOMAIN-gmhu at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:37:18.024851500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:19.187835500 delivery 106855: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:37:19.187841500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:19.200568500 starting delivery 106856: msg 229708 to
>remote HIDDEN_EXTERNAL_ADDRESS
>2008-01-27 13:37:19.200580500 status: local 0/10 remote 1/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:19.200581500 end msg 232140
>2008-01-27 13:37:19.211720500 new msg 232144
>2008-01-27 13:37:19.211727500 info msg 232144: bytes 4921 from
><jqsvd at ter.com> qp 28225 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:37:19.297540500 starting delivery 106857: msg 232144 to
>local MYDOMAIN-zvb-owner at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:37:19.297547500 status: local 1/10 remote 1/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:20.579956500 delivery 106856: deferral:
>206.190.53.191_failed_after_I_sent_the_message./Remote_host_said:_451_Message_temporarily_deferred_-_[70]/
>2008-01-27 13:37:20.579962500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:20.826018500 new msg 232141
>2008-01-27 13:37:20.826027500 info msg 232141: bytes 5026 from
><jragland at fuse.net> qp 28223 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:37:20.878151500 starting delivery 106858: msg 232141 to
>local MYDOMAIN-millsaimerisa at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:37:20.878158500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:20.882654500 delivery 106858: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:37:20.882662500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:20.882664500 end msg 232141
>2008-01-27 13:37:21.157840500 delivery 106857: success: did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:37:21.157849500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:21.157850500 end msg 232144


Here, Qmail logs the start of the delivery of the post from the list,
but the SMTP connect was issued by Mailman over a minute ago.



>2008-01-27 13:37:21.163382500 new msg 232128
>2008-01-27 13:37:21.163389500 info msg 232128: bytes 1895 from
><test-bounces at MYDOMAIN> qp 28246 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:37:21.185407500 starting delivery 106859: msg 232128 to
>local MYDOMAIN-mailman-test at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:37:21.185414500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:21.185416500 delivery 106859: success: did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:37:21.185417500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:21.185419500 end msg 232128


Delivery completes.


>2008-01-27 13:37:21.254274500 new msg 232149
>2008-01-27 13:37:21.254283500 info msg 232149: bytes 4853 from
><jragland at fuse.net> qp 28243 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:37:21.308078500 starting delivery 106860: msg 232149 to
>local MYDOMAIN-mooresmtpesxbswr at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:37:21.308084500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:21.330455500 delivery 106860: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:37:21.330462500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:21.330464500 end msg 232149
>2008-01-27 13:37:27.732534500 new msg 232139
>2008-01-27 13:37:27.732540500 info msg 232139: bytes 5094 from
><jrapp314 at cedarville.edu> qp 28285 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:37:27.753766500 starting delivery 106861: msg 232139 to
>local MYDOMAIN-info at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:37:27.753773500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:27.784165500 delivery 106861: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:37:27.784173500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:27.784175500 end msg 232139
>2008-01-27 13:37:35.365248500 new msg 232142
>2008-01-27 13:37:35.365254500 info msg 232142: bytes 5000 from
><jrapp314 at cedarville.edu> qp 28333 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:37:35.387598500 starting delivery 106862: msg 232142 to
>local MYDOMAIN-infod at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:37:35.387605500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:35.409312500 delivery 106862: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:37:35.409321500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:35.409323500 end msg 232142
>2008-01-27 13:37:41.924897500 new msg 232142
>2008-01-27 13:37:41.924907500 info msg 232142: bytes 5065 from
><jr2004 at uol.com.br> qp 28351 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:37:41.975110500 starting delivery 106863: msg 232142 to
>local MYDOMAIN-qif at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:37:41.975117500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:41.999415500 delivery 106863: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:37:41.999422500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:41.999424500 end msg 232142
>2008-01-27 13:37:49.686625500 new msg 232129
>2008-01-27 13:37:49.686973500 info msg 232129: bytes 5028 from
><jragland at fuse.net> qp 28362 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:37:55.137142500 starting delivery 106864: msg 232129 to
>local MYDOMAIN-notizie at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:37:55.137428500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:55.301245500 delivery 106864: success:
>procmail:_Couldn't_create_"/var/mail/vpopmail"/procmail:_[28399]_Sun_Jan_27_13:37:55_2008/procmail:_Assigning_"MAILDIR=/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/notizie/Maildir"/procmail:_Assigning_"LOGFILE=/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/notizie/procmail.log"/procmail:_Opening_"/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/notizie/procmail.log"/did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:37:55.301885500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:55.302450500 end msg 232129
>2008-01-27 13:37:55.303222500 new msg 232150
>2008-01-27 13:37:55.303494500 info msg 232150: bytes 4949 from
><jramos at 20minutos.es> qp 28386 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:37:55.355206500 starting delivery 106865: msg 232150 to
>local MYDOMAIN-uweia at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:37:55.355505500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:55.370020500 new msg 232149
>2008-01-27 13:37:55.370332500 info msg 232149: bytes 4951 from
><jqyay at travelgolf.com> qp 28383 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:37:55.395926500 starting delivery 106866: msg 232149 to
>local MYDOMAIN-meggithaler at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:37:55.396228500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:55.410471500 delivery 106865: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:37:55.411083500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:55.411620500 end msg 232150
>2008-01-27 13:37:55.440438500 delivery 106866: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:37:55.483851500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:55.484345500 end msg 232149
>2008-01-27 13:37:56.449041500 new msg 231909
>2008-01-27 13:37:56.449047500 info msg 231909: bytes 4979 from
><jrakers at mtco.com> qp 28410 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:37:56.491199500 starting delivery 106867: msg 231909 to
>local MYDOMAIN-fs at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:37:56.491207500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:56.513523500 delivery 106867: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:37:56.513532500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:37:56.513534500 end msg 231909
>2008-01-27 02:13:38.890632500 new msg 229720


More out of sequence timestamps.


>2008-01-27 02:13:38.890638500 info msg 229720: bytes 5282 from
><jr at drillerssupply.com> qp 30272 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:13:38.855855500 new msg 231316
>2008-01-27 13:13:38.855863500 info msg 231316: bytes 1673 from
><attelijkabawk at agosd.org> qp 23976 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:13:38.863330500 starting delivery 106597: msg 231316 to
>local MYDOMAIN-uucp at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:13:38.863336500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:13:38.926690500 delivery 106597: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:13:38.926697500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:13:38.926699500 end msg 231316


End timestamps out of sequence.


>2008-01-27 13:38:00.870266500 new msg 232130
>2008-01-27 13:38:00.870273500 info msg 232130: bytes 4762 from
><jrafert471 at hersheys.com> qp 28419 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:38:00.891481500 starting delivery 106868: msg 232130 to
>local MYDOMAIN-jaquenettawiatt at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:38:00.891487500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:00.920009500 delivery 106868: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:38:00.920017500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:00.920019500 end msg 232130
>2008-01-27 13:38:05.268085500 new msg 232130
>2008-01-27 13:38:05.268092500 info msg 232130: bytes 5078 from
><jrakers at mtco.com> qp 28425 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:38:05.325911500 starting delivery 106869: msg 232130 to
>local MYDOMAIN-fs at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:38:05.325917500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:06.737068500 delivery 106869: success:
>procmail:_Couldn't_create_"/var/mail/vpopmail"/procmail:_[28454]_Sun_Jan_27_13:38:06_2008/procmail:_Assigning_"MAILDIR=/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/fs/Maildir"/procmail:_Assigning_"LOGFILE=/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/fs/procmail.log"/procmail:_Opening_"/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/fs/procmail.log"/did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:38:06.737077500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:06.737079500 end msg 232130
>2008-01-27 13:38:06.743687500 new msg 232138
>2008-01-27 13:38:06.743694500 info msg 232138: bytes 5047 from
><jrapp314 at cedarville.edu> qp 28443 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:38:06.794904500 starting delivery 106870: msg 232138 to
>local MYDOMAIN-infodd at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:38:06.794910500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:06.797258500 delivery 106870: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:38:06.797266500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:06.797268500 end msg 232138
>2008-01-27 13:38:06.798999500 new msg 232149
>2008-01-27 13:38:06.799006500 info msg 232149: bytes 291 from
><TESTMAIL at MYDOMAIN> qp 28437 uid 511
>2008-01-27 13:38:06.824979500 starting delivery 106871: msg 232149 to
>local MYDOMAIN-test at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:38:06.824986500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:08.511684500 delivery 106871: success: did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:38:08.511691500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:08.511692500 end msg 232149
>2008-01-27 13:38:21.766375500 new msg 232142
>2008-01-27 13:38:21.766382500 info msg 232142: bytes 4863 from
><jrapp314 at cedarville.edu> qp 28506 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:38:21.806125500 starting delivery 106872: msg 232142 to
>local MYDOMAIN-jaquenettawiatt at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:38:21.806130500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:21.817952500 new msg 232140
>2008-01-27 13:38:21.817963500 info msg 232140: bytes 5043 from
><jr2004 at uol.com.br> qp 28500 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:38:21.883029500 starting delivery 106873: msg 232140 to
>local MYDOMAIN-catchallnn at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:38:21.883036500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:21.883038500 delivery 106872: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:38:21.883040500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:21.883042500 end msg 232142
>2008-01-27 13:38:21.908417500 delivery 106873: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:38:21.908428500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:21.908430500 end msg 232140
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.057960500 new msg 232130
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.057967500 info msg 232130: bytes 4807 from
><jramos at 20minutos.es> qp 28533 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.099926500 starting delivery 106874: msg 232130 to
>local MYDOMAIN-zvb-bounces at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.099933500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.153416500 new msg 232141
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.153425500 info msg 232141: bytes 5033 from
><jqsvd at ter.com> qp 28539 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.167114500 starting delivery 106875: msg 232141 to
>local MYDOMAIN-zvb-request at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.167124500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.206643500 delivery 106875: success:



What's going on with these procmail entries for mailman? What's in
/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/procmail-mailman.log?



>procmail:_[28548]_Sun_Jan_27_13:38:32_2008/procmail:_Assigning_"MAILDIR=/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/mailmanspam/Maildir/.zvb"/procmail:_Couldn't_chdir_to_"/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/mailmanspam/Maildir/.zvb"/procmail:_Assigning_"MAILDIR=."/procmail:_Assigning_"LOGFILE=/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/procmail-mailman.log"/procmail:_Opening_"/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/procmail-mailman.log"/did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.206655500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.206740500 end msg 232141
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.312694500 new msg 232144
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.312699500 info msg 232144: bytes 5043 from
><jr2004 at uol.com.br> qp 28536 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.364072500 starting delivery 106876: msg 232144 to
>local MYDOMAIN-re at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.364079500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.365545500 new msg 232142
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.365553500 info msg 232142: bytes 4932 from
><jramos at 20minutos.es> qp 28542 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.408993500 starting delivery 106877: msg 232142 to
>local MYDOMAIN-sp-request at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.409002500 status: local 3/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.409004500 delivery 106876: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.409006500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.409008500 end msg 232144
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.490732500 delivery 106877: success:
>procmail:_[28556]_Sun_Jan_27_13:38:32_2008/procmail:_Assigning_"MAILDIR=/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/mailmanspam/Maildir/.sp"/procmail:_Couldn't_chdir_to_"/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/mailmanspam/Maildir/.sp"/procmail:_Assigning_"MAILDIR=."/procmail:_Assigning_"LOGFILE=/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/procmail-mailman.log"/procmail:_Opening_"/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/procmail-mailman.log"/did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.490743500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.490837500 end msg 232142
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.898991500 delivery 106874: success: did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.898998500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:32.899000500 end msg 232130
>2008-01-27 13:38:43.941309500 new msg 232141
>2008-01-27 13:38:43.941315500 info msg 232141: bytes 4977 from
><jqsvd at ter.com> qp 28591 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:38:44.002411500 starting delivery 106878: msg 232141 to
>local MYDOMAIN-zvb-subscribe at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:38:44.002416500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:44.020049500 delivery 106878: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:38:44.020057500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:44.020059500 end msg 232141
>2008-01-27 13:38:53.524582500 new msg 232141
>2008-01-27 13:38:53.524587500 info msg 232141: bytes 4856 from
><jragland at fuse.net> qp 28631 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:38:53.573159500 starting delivery 106879: msg 232141 to
>local MYDOMAIN-owotyv at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:38:53.573174500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:53.574618500 new msg 232142
>2008-01-27 13:38:53.574627500 info msg 232142: bytes 4980 from
><jr2004 at uol.com.br> qp 28625 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:38:53.629800500 starting delivery 106880: msg 232142 to
>local MYDOMAIN-catchallk at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:38:53.629807500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:53.629809500 delivery 106879: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:38:53.629812500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:53.629813500 end msg 232141
>2008-01-27 13:38:53.631091500 new msg 232144
>2008-01-27 13:38:53.631098500 info msg 232144: bytes 4893 from
><jramos at 20minutos.es> qp 28628 uid 509
>2008-01-27 13:38:53.678298500 starting delivery 106881: msg 232144 to
>local MYDOMAIN-sp-bounces at MYDOMAIN
>2008-01-27 13:38:53.678309500 status: local 2/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:53.678311500 delivery 106880: success:
>user_does_not_exist,_but_will_deliver_to_/home/vpopmail/domains/MYDOMAIN/catchall//did_0+0+1/
>2008-01-27 13:38:53.678313500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/200
>2008-01-27 13:38:53.678315500 end msg 232142



Questions?

What's going on with procmail?

What if anything is in Mailman's error and smtp-failure logs?

To try to debug the SMTP interaction with qmail, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>
for a patch that can be applied to Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to
log additional debug info. You said you have Python 2.4.3 which is
good - do not use this patch with Python older than 2.4.x.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 29 00:05:44 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:05:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <200801281726.32676.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801281505440093c7ad81c9@msapiro>

Mikhail Teterin wrote:
>
>But I was referring to search-results only. Regardless of how the messages
>are stored, if I type the search string and select several of the mailing
>list archives to search through, the same message may appear in my search
>results more than once. That duplication should not happen -- I don't think,
>anyone would disagree.


I disagree. If there are multiple ways to access the same message, a
search engine should find all of them. If you want the search engine
to supress the duplicates, that's fine, but that's a job for the
search engine, not the archiver.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 29 00:26:03 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:26:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] korean error
In-Reply-To: <001601c86180$3389dbc0$0302a8c0@newbuild>
Message-ID: <PC17602008012815260304683f56a897@msapiro>

Rod at freeserve wrote:
>
>I had this problem with RHEL 5, Python 2.4.3 and Mailman 2.1.9.
>
>If you don't need Korean support, here is a workround.
>Remove or comment out two lines in misc/paths.py.in before running configure..
>
>First comment out
>
>        import korean
>
>Then comment out
>
>        import korean.aliases
>
>- otherwise you will get the same error for this file as well.
>
>I did not need support for Korean language and/or character set.
>Mailman configure and make install worked fine after that, and the installed system
>appears to be OK.
>
>I assume that the pre-installed Python on my system did not have Korean language support
>installed. It would have been difficult for me to fix the Python libraries - it was easy
>to remove Korean support from Mailman.


This is not the reason for this. Mailman 2.1.x itself installs its own
version of the python email libraty and the Japanese and Korean Codecs
in Mailman's pythonlib directory.

The problem is that sometimes the installation of the Korean Codecs
fails. This has been discussed several times on mailman-users. See the
thread starting at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-February/055640.html>
for one such discussion.

I think, but am not certain that the issue is that the Korean Codecs
are installed via Python's distutils package, and various things can
go wrong here. There is an issue with some RedHat releases missing
some of distutils if python-devel is not installed. configure has been
updated for 2.1.10 to try to catch this.

Another problem is that the setup for the Korean Codecs insists on
using 'cc' even if configure is using 'gcc' so you need a working 'cc'
command or a symlink from 'cc' to 'gcc'.

There is also the issue mentioned in another reply that Debian/Ubuntu
erroneously removes Mailman's pythonlib.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at list.org  Tue Jan 29 00:40:17 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:40:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200801281416460062c7ad81ac@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200801281416460062c7ad81ac@msapiro>
Message-ID: <ECC8A241-6271-487D-B612-696ED8303339@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Jan 28, 2008, at 5:16 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> The concept to be implemented in Mailman 3.0 is a separate user
> database which has an entry per person with perhaps multiple email
> addresses and various roles such as member of list1, owner of list2
> and moderator of list3

Without too deep in the technical weeds, this exists in Mailman 3.0  
right now: there are users, addresses, and members.  An address is  
just an email address, which can have state like "validated" and can  
be associated with a user.  A user is a person to Mailman, with a  
name, possibly preferences, and multiple associated addresses.  A  
member is a user who is associated with a mailing list under a  
particular role (or multiple roles), such as "subscribed list member",  
"administrator", or "moderator", with a particular address.

There's an intermediate concept not directly represented at the  
database layer called a "roster" which is just a set of members.  So  
when Mailman delivers a message to a mailing list for example, it asks  
for the roster of all enabled subscribed member addresses, and it send  
the message to them.

What this means is that in Mailman 3.0, there is knowledge of  
subscriptions across mailing lists, so that we could do better cross- 
posting, though this isn't implemented yet.  For example, you could  
say that the 'musicians' mailing list roster is composed of the  
rosters for the 'guitar-players' mailing list and the 'bass-players'  
mailing list, plus a bunch of directly subscribed multi- 
instrumentalists.  Mailman figures all that out when it decides who  
the recipients of the message are.

> <snip>
>> AFAIU, the message will appear in the search results multiple times  
>> -- once
>> per mailing list. That is not justified -- the results should  
>> contain no
>> repetitions...
>
>
> For as many people who feel as you do, I'll wager that there are many
> more who feel it is absolutely wrong to not archive a post to lista in
> lista's archive just because it also was possibly archived in listb's
> archive.

How the message is accessible is up to the archiver used, and  
archivers will be (more easily) pluggable in Mailman 3.  Pipermail  
will probably not be made any smarter unless a volunteer comes forward  
to make it so, but it would be easier to plug in MHonArc or even mail- 
archive.com/gmane support.  It's then up to the specific archiver  
whether it will reduce duplicates by comparing Message-Ids.  I'm not  
aware of a free archiver (or free archiving service) that does this  
though.

Cheers,
- -Barry

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From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Jan 29 01:59:07 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:59:07 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <200801281640.40303.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
References: <200801281258.37124.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
	<p06240801c3c3d8a2b216@[192.168.1.199]>
	<200801281640.40303.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c3c427be3ce5@[192.168.1.199]>

On 1/28/08, Mikhail T. wrote:

>  Yes, of course. But a single mailman installation hosting multiple mailing
>  lists already has the complete knowledge, does not it?

Nope.  All you have for each list knows is a bunch of e-mail 
addresses that are subscribed.  When sending out a message that has 
been cross-posted to multiple lists, one thing you could do is an 
equivalent to "sort | uniq" for all of the recipient e-mail 
addresses, but you have no way of know if a single person has 
multiple different addresses that are subscribed to one or more lists.

And I believe that interactive mail messages are handled separately 
from digests.

>  Yes, absolutely -- the only key is Message-Id. Even if a hash of the message
>  body /could/ be used as the key, I think, a different Message-Id means, the
>  message should be sent again.

Message-id is not really good enough.  There have been many examples 
of clients that do not create sufficiently unique message-ids for 
different messages.

But if the recipient wants to that that risk within their mail 
system, that's their choice.

>  I think, this function is already here. When I first sent message to this
>  list, it bounced, because I was not a subscriber. The bounce suggested, that
>  I subscribe ALL of my addresses and mark some of them as "NOMAIL". This would
>  seem to indicate, that multiple addresses-per-person feature is already
>  established.

Uh, no.  I think I may have written that bounce message.  I guarantee 
you that this feature does not yet exist in Mailman.

>  This is true. But if /most/ duplicates are eliminated by this, then the
>  remaining /few/ may be acceptable to allow cross-posting to relevant mailing
>  lists.

Most of the anti-duplication features can't be delivered until 
Mailman3.  The sister-list concept that Mark has introduced with 
Mailman 2.1.10 is the best we're likely to be able to see for a long 
time.

>  AFAIU, the message will appear in the search results multiple times -- once
>  per mailing list. That is not justified -- the results should contain no
>  repetitions...

Mailman does not incorporate any search function, therefore which 
searches return which messages is totally and completely irrelevant 
to Mailman.

Moreover, searches across multiple lists should most definitely 
return multiple hits for the same message, if it was posted to 
multiple lists.  If you want any other kind of behaviour, then that 
would be up to you and how you configure your particular search query.

No search engine author in their right mind should ever consider 
doing de-duplication on their own, although they might be willing to 
provide that feature to customers who demand the option.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Jan 29 02:05:05 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:05:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <200801281722.41956.mi+mill@aldan.algebra.com>
References: <PC1760200801281416460062c7ad81ac@msapiro>
	<200801281722.41956.mi+mill@aldan.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3c42afaff1c@[192.168.1.199]>

On 1/28/08, Mikhail Teterin wrote:

>  Well, depending on the archival method, a message can appear in both, with
>  only a single copy of it being stored. This can be achived, for example,
>  using symbolic (or even hard) links.

We do not do a "single instance store" within the archiving system of 
Mailman, and I can pretty much guarantee you that we never will. 
That's not to say that this is necessarily a bad idea, but I think we 
have much, much more important issues to resolve -- and probably 
will, for the entire future history of Mailman.

>                                       Similarly, if a relational database is
>  employed, the same message can be referred to from multiple places.

We don't employ a relational database within Mailman, or the 
archiving system.  If you want to implement that kind of function 
according to the API and programming hooks that we provide, that 
would be completely and totally outside the scope of Mailman per se.

>  Hardlinks, for example, is how one IMAP-server (cyrus, I believe) stores
>  messages sent to multiple recipients.

We do not implement any kind of IMAP or other user mailbox service 
with Mailman.  If you want that, you should go somewhere else.

>  But I was referring to search-results only. Regardless of how the 
>messages are
>  stored, if I type the search string and select several of the mailing list
>  archives to search through, the same message may appear in my search results
>  more than once. That duplication should not happen -- I don't think, anyone
>  would disagree.

I *violently* disagree with your claim.  If a message was 
cross-posted to multiple mailing lists and indexed by Google, then 
Google will most certainly return multiple hits for the same message, 
and this is precisely what any proper search engine should do.

De-duplication at this level is absolutely the worst thing you could 
do -- at least by default, although this could potentially be an 
alternative that the search engine author could offer as an 
alternative.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From leang.chumsoben at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 02:13:45 2008
From: leang.chumsoben at gmail.com (Soben)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 08:13:45 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Post number in subject line
In-Reply-To: <479D409B.8050703@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <200801280855.55723.leang.chumsoben@gmail.com>
	<479D409B.8050703@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <200801290813.45921.leang.chumsoben@gmail.com>

Thank you very much for the hint. It's now working. 

As you said, actually there is information about attaching the post numbering 
in the Detail Page of the Admin -> Subject Prefix. I just did not look 
deeply :)

Regards,
Soben

On ????? ?? 28 ???? 2008, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Is there anyone know how to show the post number in subject line? This
> > number will be increased every time the member post something to the
> > list. I have tried to search through Mailman's settings but seem no luck.
>
> What is the version of your mailman?  Subject numbering feature was
> introduced in 2.1.6.  You will see the following info in
> admin->subject_prefix->detail page, if your version supports numbering:
>
> You can also add a sequencial number by %d substitution directive. eg.;
> [listname %d] -> [listname 123] (listname %05d) -> (listname 00123)
>
> Cheers,



From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 29 03:13:56 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:13:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c3c427be3ce5@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <PC176020080128181356095375803e31@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>Most of the anti-duplication features can't be delivered until 
>Mailman3.  The sister-list concept that Mark has introduced with 
>Mailman 2.1.10 is the best we're likely to be able to see for a long 
>time.


Actually, Tokio deserves the credit for bringing the concept and
implementation to Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rpyne at kinfolk.org  Tue Jan 29 05:12:31 2008
From: rpyne at kinfolk.org (Richard Pyne)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 21:12:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moved list not creating virtual-mailman entries
Message-ID: <479E453F.979.2D47E46@rpyne.kinfolk.org>

I have a group of Mailman lists that I moved to a new server. When I run 
genaliases, it is correctly creating the aliases but not the entries in 
virtual-mailman.

I made the move and ran "withlist -l -r fix_url [listname]" for each list, 
but Mailman is still not creating the virtual entries.

Thanks for any help.

--Richard


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 29 05:21:31 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:21:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moved list not creating virtual-mailman entries
In-Reply-To: <479E453F.979.2D47E46@rpyne.kinfolk.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801282021310125bd8ced1c@msapiro>

Richard Pyne wrote:

>I have a group of Mailman lists that I moved to a new server. When I run 
>genaliases, it is correctly creating the aliases but not the entries in 
>virtual-mailman.
>
>I made the move and ran "withlist -l -r fix_url [listname]" for each list, 
>but Mailman is still not creating the virtual entries.


Is the virtual domain in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS in mm_cfg.py?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Jan 29 08:21:13 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:21:13 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c3c427be3ce5@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <200801281258.37124.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
	<p06240801c3c3d8a2b216@[192.168.1.199]>
	<200801281640.40303.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
	<p06240800c3c427be3ce5@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <877ihtcd1y.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > No search engine author in their right mind should ever consider 
 > doing de-duplication on their own, although they might be willing to 
 > provide that feature to customers who demand the option.

Google does.

From odieresis at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 09:49:15 2008
From: odieresis at gmail.com (Odieresis [Gmail])
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:49:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding Google Analytics to Mailman templates
Message-ID: <479EE88B.7010102@gmail.com>

I want to add Google Analytics to Mailman templates to track visits.
When I try to save /General Informations Page/ template with the code 
from Analytics it changes the code.

I paste this in:

    * <script src="http://www.google-analytics.com/urchin.js"
      type="text/javascript">
      </script>
      <script type="text/javascript">
      _uacct = "UA-000000-0";
      urchinTracker();
      </script>

It saves this:

    * &lt;script src="http://www.google-analytics.com/urchin.js"
      type="text/javascript"&gt;
      &lt;/script&gt;
      &lt;script type="text/javascript"&gt;
      _uacct = "UA-000000-0";
      urchinTracker();
      &lt;/script&gt;

Why does it do this? I'm looking for an answer on the internet but I 
didn't find any about code savings in templates.

Thank you in advance.

Francesco

From roberto.gherardi at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 11:23:03 2008
From: roberto.gherardi at gmail.com (Roberto Gherardi)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 11:23:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem Bounce Processing Category
Message-ID: <584954160801290223q3ca2e184oc96d59b1db4aea2f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,


I have a problem with   Bounce Processing Category's configuration. With
this  configutation :


*bounce_processing  =  yes

**bounce_score_threshold = 2.0

**bounce_info_stale_after = 365

**bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 2

**bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval = 5

**bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner = yes

**bounce_notify_owner_on_disable = yes

**bounce_notify_owner_on_removal = yes

with this configuration after


The users which exceed the **bounce_score_threshold = 2.0 should be disabled
but it doesn't  happen automatically .  How can I resolve  this problem ?

Thanks for your kindless

Roby
*

From deb at emdeon.com  Tue Jan 29 11:51:32 2008
From: deb at emdeon.com (Holmes, Deb)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 04:51:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] really dumb question on getting started;
	extracting archive
Message-ID: <8E9FE9D11E76E945B51694ADD4374C9D0A949825@zbnawlex005.na.webmd.net>

How do you unzip the .tar and .gz files prior to install?   For most
applications that I'm running on my unix based web server, my process is to
unzip on my Windows XP box prior to uploading to the web server.  I know
basically nothing about unix except how to post files and write simple .cgi
code. I'm wanting to install mailman in conjunction with a WordPress plug-in
and am pretty much expecting that between WordPress and the WP mailman plug
in I won't need to know very much about the unix stuff underneath.  But the
archive format has me stumped before I even get out the gate.  

 

I searched the FAQ on "extract" and "unzip" and found nothing on point.  I
searched the archives for this mailing list and found 3 other people with
the same question but none of the answers were helpful.  

One person suggested http://www.gzip.org, but that web page states that the
solution for unzipping on a windows machine is to use winzip:

"To extract .tar and .tar.gz files on Windows 9x/NT/2000/ME/XP use
<http://www.sfsu.edu/ftp/win/utils/> PowerArchiver 6.1 (freeware) or
<http://www.7-zip.org> 7-zip (freeware) or  <http://www.winzip.com> Winzip
(commercial)."

Winzip says the file format of the files downloaded from SourceForge isn't
valid.  Specifically the error when I try to extract mailman-2.1.10b1.tgz.gz
is "invalid directory"

And when I try to extract mailman-2.1.10b1.tar I get "Error reading header
after processing 0 entries"

 

 

Another respondent suggested the GNU installation manual , but those
instructions go from this:
2.2 Create the installation directory 

You are now ready to configure and install the Mailman software. 

To this 

SECTION0013100000000000000003.1 Run configure

Usually you can just cd to the directory you unpacked the Mailman source
tarball into, and run configure with no arguments:

Without ever stopping to say how to unpack the file.   

I'm sure it's obvious to those with passing familiarity with unix, but if
its that easy it couldn't hurt to enumerate the steps could it?

Thanks, in advance!

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 29 15:52:23 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 06:52:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding Google Analytics to Mailman templates
In-Reply-To: <479EE88B.7010102@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801290652230406576c6d8d@msapiro>

Odieresis [Gmail] wrote:

>I want to add Google Analytics to Mailman templates to track visits.
>When I try to save /General Informations Page/ template with the code 
>from Analytics it changes the code.
>
>I paste this in:
>
>    * <script src="http://www.google-analytics.com/urchin.js"
>      type="text/javascript">
>      </script>
>      <script type="text/javascript">
>      _uacct = "UA-000000-0";
>      urchinTracker();
>      </script>
>
>It saves this:
>
>    * &lt;script src="http://www.google-analytics.com/urchin.js"
>      type="text/javascript"&gt;
>      &lt;/script&gt;
>      &lt;script type="text/javascript"&gt;
>      _uacct = "UA-000000-0";
>      urchinTracker();
>      &lt;/script&gt;


We do not allow adding <script> and other potentially evil html via the
web interface in order to prevent potential cross site scripting (XSS)
attacks.

If you want to put such HTML in a template, you have to create an
edited template directly on the server via shell, ftp, etc. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 29 15:58:56 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 06:58:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem Bounce Processing Category
In-Reply-To: <584954160801290223q3ca2e184oc96d59b1db4aea2f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801290658560000576c6c18@msapiro>

Roberto Gherardi wrote:
>
>I have a problem with   Bounce Processing Category's configuration. With
>this  configutation :
>
>
>*bounce_processing  =  yes
>
>**bounce_score_threshold = 2.0
>
>**bounce_info_stale_after = 365
>
>**bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 2
>
>**bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval = 5
>
>**bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner = yes
>
>**bounce_notify_owner_on_disable = yes
>
>**bounce_notify_owner_on_removal = yes
>
>with this configuration after
>
>
>The users which exceed the **bounce_score_threshold = 2.0 should be disabled
>but it doesn't  happen automatically .  How can I resolve  this problem ?


Are users bounces recognized by Mailman?

What's in Mailman's 'bounce' log?

Are messages to the listname-bounces address being correctly delivered?
You can test this by sending a blank email to the listname-bounces
address. It should then be forwarded to you as an unrecognized bounce.

If you have Mailman's VERP enabled, does your MTA properly deliver the
VERP'd bounces?

What are you seeing that tells you users are bouncing and not being
disabled?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Tue Jan 29 16:01:11 2008
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:01:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] really dumb question on getting started;
 extracting archive
In-Reply-To: <8E9FE9D11E76E945B51694ADD4374C9D0A949825@zbnawlex005.na.webmd.net>
References: <8E9FE9D11E76E945B51694ADD4374C9D0A949825@zbnawlex005.na.webmd.net>
Message-ID: <479F3FB7.1070104@Media-Brokers.com>

Holmes, Deb, on 1/29/2008 5:51 AM, said the following:
> How do you unzip the .tar and .gz files prior to install?   For most

www.7zip.org

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Tue Jan 29 16:10:56 2008
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:10:56 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem Bounce Processing Category
In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Roberto Gherardi" <roberto.gherardi@gmail.com>'
	dated: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 11:23:03 +0100
Message-ID: <200801291510.m0TFAuhX005925@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

"Roberto Gherardi" <roberto.gherardi at gmail.com> wrote:

>I have a problem with   Bounce Processing Category's configuration. With
>this  configutation :
>
>
>*bounce_processing  =  yes
>
>**bounce_score_threshold = 2.0
>
>**bounce_info_stale_after = 365
>
>**bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 2
>
>**bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval = 5
>
>**bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner = yes
>
>**bounce_notify_owner_on_disable = yes
>
>**bounce_notify_owner_on_removal = yes
>
>with this configuration after
>
>
>The users which exceed the **bounce_score_threshold = 2.0 should be disabled
>but it doesn't  happen automatically .  How can I resolve  this problem ?

What is not happening that you think should be happening?  I believe
what should occur is this - after the bounce_score reaches 2.0,
the subscriber is set to NOMAIL.  Then Mailman will send two
"Your subscription is NOMAIL" warning messages to the subscriber.
You have

     bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval = 5

so there will be an additional 10 days (2 warning messages sent to the
subscriber) delay.  If there is no reply to the second warning message,
then finally the e-mail address will be unsubscribed from the list.
Look at the list membership and see if the e-mail address in question
has been set to NOMAIL [B].  I do not know the interval between the
bounce_score reaching 2.0 and the sending of the first warning
message.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 29 16:26:38 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:26:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] really dumb question on getting started;
	extracting archive
In-Reply-To: <8E9FE9D11E76E945B51694ADD4374C9D0A949825@zbnawlex005.na.webmd.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801290726380890f3a39540@msapiro>

Holmes, Deb wrote:

>How do you unzip the .tar and .gz files prior to install?


In a command shell on your unix web server type

man gunzip

and

man tar

or

tar --help

for documentation.

Depending on your specific tar, you should be able to do

tar -xf mailman-2.1.10b1.tgz

or

gunzip -c mailman-2.1.10b1.tgz | tar -xf -



>For most
>applications that I'm running on my unix based web server, my process is to
>unzip on my Windows XP box prior to uploading to the web server.  I know
>basically nothing about unix except how to post files and write simple .cgi
>code. I'm wanting to install mailman in conjunction with a WordPress plug-in
>and am pretty much expecting that between WordPress and the WP mailman plug
>in I won't need to know very much about the unix stuff underneath.  But the
>archive format has me stumped before I even get out the gate.  


I suspect you'll find you need to know a lot more than you think.

It is not recommended to unzip/untar Mailman on Windows first. The
tarball contains subordinate tarballs for the Python email library and
the Japanese and Korean codecs. If these get expanded on Windows,
Mailman's make will probably fail.


>I searched the FAQ on "extract" and "unzip" and found nothing on point.


This is so fundamental that no one expects that someone without this
much *nix knowledge would try to install Mailman.


>I
>searched the archives for this mailing list and found 3 other people with
>the same question but none of the answers were helpful.  
>
>One person suggested http://www.gzip.org, but that web page states that the
>solution for unzipping on a windows machine is to use winzip:


As I said, don't unzip on Windows. Put the tarball on the *nix machine
and unzip and untar it there.


>Winzip says the file format of the files downloaded from SourceForge isn't
>valid.  Specifically the error when I try to extract mailman-2.1.10b1.tgz.gz
>is "invalid directory"


The file on SourceForge is 2.1.10b1.tgz. Possibly your download process
added an extranous .gz extention because of it's content-type, but it
should be named 2.1.10b1.tgz, not 2.1.10b1.tgz.gz.


>And when I try to extract mailman-2.1.10b1.tar I get "Error reading header
>after processing 0 entries"


And where did mailman-2.1.10b1.tar come from? The failed extract of
2.1.10b1.tgz.gz?  I suspect it's empty.


>Another respondent suggested the GNU installation manual , but those
>instructions go from this:
>2.2 Create the installation directory 
>
>You are now ready to configure and install the Mailman software. 
>
>To this 
>
>SECTION0013100000000000000003.1 Run configure
>
>Usually you can just cd to the directory you unpacked the Mailman source
>tarball into, and run configure with no arguments:
>
>Without ever stopping to say how to unpack the file.   
>
>I'm sure it's obvious to those with passing familiarity with unix, but if
>its that easy it couldn't hurt to enumerate the steps could it?


It's a hurdle. If you can't get past that one, I think you'll have more
issues later. It takes more than a "passing familiarity with unix" to
install software - not just Mailman - any software.

That said, we will try to help if you ask, but we probably can't teach
you *nix administration from the ground up.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 29 16:31:38 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:31:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] really dumb question on getting started;
	extracting archive
In-Reply-To: <479F3FB7.1070104@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080129073138060952bce2e7@msapiro>

Charles Marcus wrote:

>Holmes, Deb, on 1/29/2008 5:51 AM, said the following:
>> How do you unzip the .tar and .gz files prior to install?   For most
>
>www.7zip.org


As I said in my reply to the OP, if you're trying to install Mailman on
*nix, don't unzip it on Windows.

In theory it should work, but it only complicates the problem of moving
the unpacked tree to the *nix environment, and many Windows unzip
applications will unzip recursively by default and this will break
things for make.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mi+mailman at aldan.algebra.com  Tue Jan 29 17:09:21 2008
From: mi+mailman at aldan.algebra.com (Mikhail T.)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 11:09:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c3c42afaff1c@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <PC1760200801281416460062c7ad81ac@msapiro>
	<200801281722.41956.mi+mill@aldan.algebra.com>
	<p06240801c3c42afaff1c@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <200801291109.21776.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>

????????? 28 ?????? 2008 08:05 ??, Brad Knowles ?? ????????:
> We do not do a "single instance store" within the archiving system of 
> Mailman, and I can pretty much guarantee you that we never will.
> That's not to say that this is necessarily a bad idea, but I think we
> have much, much more important issues to resolve

May I suggest, you underestimate the importance of this feature? Cross-posting 
may often be justified from the end-user perspective, but is discouraged by 
the admins exactly because it increases the archival-storage requirements...

> We do not implement any kind of IMAP or other user mailbox service 
> with Mailman.  If you want that, you should go somewhere else.

Brad, I brought up a particular IMAP-server's implementation as /an example/ 
of how a single message can appear in multiple mailboxes, while only copy of 
it is stored. You refer to this as "single instance store".

IMAP-server developers are just more affected by the same issue -- people 
CC-ing multiple addressees results in the same message getting to multiple 
mailboxes. IMAP-server admins also don't have the "luxury" of prohibiting 
CC-ing, as mailing-list admins often do. So IMAP-servers already implement 
the "single instance store", and it would be nice (and logical) if mailing 
list software did too -- starting with the recognized leader of the pack...

> I *violently* disagree with your claim. ?If a message was
> cross-posted to multiple mailing lists and indexed by Google, then
> Google will most certainly return multiple hits for the same message,
> and this is precisely what any proper search engine should do.
>
> De-duplication at this level is absolutely the worst thing you could
> do -- at least by default

And yet Google does just that -- de-duplication -- in its search results... It 
will display a warning at the bottom of the page, saying that duplicate 
results were suppressed...

> Mailman does not incorporate any search function, therefore which
> searches return which messages is totally and completely irrelevant
> to Mailman.

Well, this is more important -- I was under the (mistaken) impression, that it 
does. There is no point arguing, how a good search-engine should do things on 
a Mailman forum, if Mailman implements no search function.

Thank you, guys, very much for your comments. We'll try to look into the 
"sister-list" feature of 2.1.10 to eliminate/reduce multiple copies of 
messages going to the same subscriber and await 3.0 for a full solution to 
the problem.

I hope, you'll give the idea of "single instance storage" another thought. 
There is already an option to archive in "Maildir" format. Optionally storing 
hardlinks instead of copies of cross-posts can't be too difficult...

Yours,

 -mi

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 29 17:33:17 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 08:33:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] {Disarmed} Re: Problem Bounce Processing
	Category
In-Reply-To: <584954160801290748i420233f6sc27b2fc8ad2da51e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080129083317000015077711@msapiro>

Roberto Gherardi wrote:
>
>this is my log bounce :
>
<snip>
>Jan 29 10:17:22 2008 (29795) sending prova1 list probe to:
>m.lariccia-eds at libero.it (score 2.0 >= 2.0)


The probe is not bouncing, or more likely it is bouncing but postfix is
not delivering it back to Mailman,
>
>
>this is my log postfix:
<snip>
>Jan 29 10:17:23 PRILNL01 postfix/cleanup[770]: EEC9411F73F: message-id=<
>mailman.10.1201598242.29795.prova1 at nli.inail.it>
>Jan 29 10:17:23 PRILNL01 postfix/qmgr[27729]: EEC9411F73F: from=<
>prova1-bounces+2274385f755d822304e48e7ea880d630703e9a6b at nli.inail.it>,
>size=7833, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>Jan 29 10:17:24 PRILNL01 postfix/smtp[771]: EEC9411F73F: to=<
>m.lariccia-eds at libero.it>, relay=10.243.255.112[10.243.255.112], delay=1,
>status=sent (250 2.6.0  <mailman.10.1201598242.29795.prova1 at nli.inail.it>
>Queued mail for delivery)


This is the send of the probe. Note that the envelope is from
prova1-bounces+2274385f755d822304e48e7ea880d630703e9a6b at nli.inail.it

The +2274385f755d822304e48e7ea880d630703e9a6b part is a token that
identifies this particular probe when it bounces.

There are a few possibilities:

1) The probe actually doesn't bounce. This is unlikely.

2) The probe bounces, but Postfix doesn't know that
prova1-bounces+2274385f755d822304e48e7ea880d630703e9a6b at nli.inail.it
should be delivered to prova1-bounces at nli.inail.it. Do you have

recipient_delimiter = +

in your Postfix main.cf (see postconf -n). You need this for this to
work.

Your Postfix log excerpt didn't go far enough to show the probe bounce
if any.

3) The probe bounces after a delay that is long enough (3 days or more
by default) that the probe token has expired.


If your Mailman version is 2.1.6 or later, you can set

VERP_PROBES = No

(or remove VERP_PROBES = Yes) in mm_cfg.py to turn off the probe
feature. If this is Mailman 2.1.5, VERP_PROBES cannot be turned off.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From steve at marmot.org  Tue Jan 29 17:17:54 2008
From: steve at marmot.org (Steve Lindemann)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:17:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] really dumb question on getting started;
 extracting archive
In-Reply-To: <8E9FE9D11E76E945B51694ADD4374C9D0A949825@zbnawlex005.na.webmd.net>
References: <8E9FE9D11E76E945B51694ADD4374C9D0A949825@zbnawlex005.na.webmd.net>
Message-ID: <479F51B2.50102@marmot.org>


Holmes, Deb wrote:
> How do you unzip the .tar and .gz files prior to install?   For most
> applications that I'm running on my unix based web server, my process is to
> unzip on my Windows XP box prior to uploading to the web server.  I know
> basically nothing about unix except how to post files and write simple .cgi
> code. I'm wanting to install mailman in conjunction with a WordPress plug-in
> and am pretty much expecting that between WordPress and the WP mailman plug
> in I won't need to know very much about the unix stuff underneath.  But the
> archive format has me stumped before I even get out the gate.  
>

don't mess with the windoze system... just put the file in the directory 
on your *nix system that you want it unpacked in and:

$ tar -xf <filename>.tar

$ gunzip <filename>.gz

and for zipped tarballs (which I use a far bit):

$ tar -xzf <filename>.tar.gz

the man pages for tar and gunzip will explain all the switches, and 
there are a bunch, but you only need the ones shown to get what you 
want.  I usually add the -v switch (for verbose) as I like to see what's 
happening.
 >>>snip<<<

--
Steve Lindemann                         __
Network Administrator                  //\\  ASCII Ribbon Campaign
Marmot Library Network, Inc.           \\//  against HTML/RTF email,
   url: http://www.marmot.org           //\\  vCards & M$ attachments
email: mailto:steve at marmot.org
voice: +1.970.242.3331 ext 116
   fax: +1.970.245.7854


From gilmore.126 at osu.edu  Tue Jan 29 17:55:51 2008
From: gilmore.126 at osu.edu (Melinda Gilmore)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 11:55:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing mail
Message-ID: <009201c86297$cdb3de40$aef39280@ad.service.osu.edu>

I am totally stumped,  I have looked at all the logs including our mail
logs.   I send a message to a list and it just goes to lala land.   I have
attached a copy of the logs, hopeing somebody else eyes can see something I
cannot, or another place to look.  I have lookd in the mailman logs, and the
email server logs

Here are some logs of an email that did not go to the list, and no bounced
messages.


Jan 29 11:26:23 lists sendmail[11450]: [ID 801593 mail.info] m0TGQNHg011450:
from=<gilmore.126 at osu.edu>, size=2467, class=0, nrcpts=1,
msgid=<008d01c86294$b50a92b0$aef39280 at ad.service.osu.edu>, proto=ESMTP,
daemon=MTA-v4, relay=defang19.it.ohio-state.edu [128.146.216.133]
Jan 29 11:26:23 lists sendmail[11451]: [ID 801593 mail.info] cd:
to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post        it_fin_team",
ctladdr=<it_fin_team at lists.service.ohio-state.edu> (101/0), delay=00:00:00,
xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=32727, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


Jan 29 11:26:23 lists sendmail[11450]: [ID 801593 mail.info] m0TGQNHg011450:
from=<gilmore.126 at osu.edu>, size=2467, class=0, nrcpts=1,
msgid=<008d01c86294$b50a92b0$aef39280 at ad.service.osu.edu>, proto=ESMTP,
daemon=MTA-v4, relay=defang19.it.ohio-state.edu [128.146.216.133]
Jan 29 11:26:23 lists sendmail[11451]: [ID 801593 mail.info] m0TGQNHg011450:
to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post        it_fin_team",
ctladdr=<it_fin_team at lists.service.ohio-state.edu> (101/0), delay=00:00:00,
xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=32727, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

Melinda Gilmore
Systems Engineer
The Ohio State University
Enterprise Messaging/OIT
614-292-4953


From srb at umich.edu  Tue Jan 29 18:05:05 2008
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:05:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <200801291109.21776.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
References: <PC1760200801281416460062c7ad81ac@msapiro>
	<200801281722.41956.mi+mill@aldan.algebra.com>
	<p06240801c3c42afaff1c@[192.168.1.199]>
	<200801291109.21776.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <B5FA9180B7671EDC2F2CBD6B@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>

--On January 29, 2008 11:09:21 AM -0500 "Mikhail T." 
<mi+mailman at aldan.algebra.com> wrote:

> I hope, you'll give the idea of "single instance storage" another
> thought.  There is already an option to archive in "Maildir" format.
> Optionally storing  hardlinks instead of copies of cross-posts can't be
> too difficult...

To which I reply:

I love comments like this.  If it "can't be too difficult...", I suggest 
you put on your Python programming hat, and get coding.

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From mi+mailman at aldan.algebra.com  Tue Jan 29 18:17:23 2008
From: mi+mailman at aldan.algebra.com (Mikhail T.)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:17:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <B5FA9180B7671EDC2F2CBD6B@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>
References: <PC1760200801281416460062c7ad81ac@msapiro>
	<200801291109.21776.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
	<B5FA9180B7671EDC2F2CBD6B@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <200801291217.23886.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>

???????? 29 ?????? 2008 12:05 ??, Steve Burling ?? ????????:
> I love comments like this. ?If it "can't be too difficult...", I suggest
> you put on your Python programming hat, and get coding.

Whatever I code up will, naturally, need to be approved by the 
project-maintainers. This is why securing their acceptance /in principle/ is 
important before beginning the actual work.

As long as the official position remains:

<<We do not do a "single instance store" within the archiving system of
  Mailman, and I can pretty much guarantee you that we never will.>>

demanding work from a would-be contributor is facetious and insincere...

If I get something like: "Uhm, interesting, please send your patches", I'll 
get to work... Yours,

 -mi

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jan 29 18:31:31 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:31:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing mail
In-Reply-To: <009201c86297$cdb3de40$aef39280@ad.service.osu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602008012909313109845f3b83d7@msapiro>

Melinda Gilmore wrote:

>I am totally stumped,  I have looked at all the logs including our mail
>logs.   I send a message to a list and it just goes to lala land.   I have
>attached a copy of the logs,


Removed by content filtering? Or just the below?


>hopeing somebody else eyes can see something I
>cannot, or another place to look.  I have lookd in the mailman logs, and the
>email server logs
>
>Here are some logs of an email that did not go to the list, and no bounced
>messages.
>
>
>Jan 29 11:26:23 lists sendmail[11450]: [ID 801593 mail.info] m0TGQNHg011450:
>from=<gilmore.126 at osu.edu>, size=2467, class=0, nrcpts=1,
>msgid=<008d01c86294$b50a92b0$aef39280 at ad.service.osu.edu>, proto=ESMTP,
>daemon=MTA-v4, relay=defang19.it.ohio-state.edu [128.146.216.133]
>Jan 29 11:26:23 lists sendmail[11451]: [ID 801593 mail.info] cd:
>to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post        it_fin_team",
>ctladdr=<it_fin_team at lists.service.ohio-state.edu> (101/0), delay=00:00:00,
>xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=32727, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
>
>
>Jan 29 11:26:23 lists sendmail[11450]: [ID 801593 mail.info] m0TGQNHg011450:
>from=<gilmore.126 at osu.edu>, size=2467, class=0, nrcpts=1,
>msgid=<008d01c86294$b50a92b0$aef39280 at ad.service.osu.edu>, proto=ESMTP,
>daemon=MTA-v4, relay=defang19.it.ohio-state.edu [128.146.216.133]
>Jan 29 11:26:23 lists sendmail[11451]: [ID 801593 mail.info] m0TGQNHg011450:
>to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post        it_fin_team",
>ctladdr=<it_fin_team at lists.service.ohio-state.edu> (101/0), delay=00:00:00,
>xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=32727, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


These indicate the messages were successfully piped to the wrapper via

|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post        it_fin_team

and probably, but not certainly, queued in Mailman's 'in' queue.


If there are no entries in Mailman's 'error', 'vette', 'post', 'smtp'
and 'smtp-failure' logs, then maybe IncomingRunner isn't running.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>.
It looks like steps 2 and 3 are OK from the above, but what about 5b,
6, 7 and 8?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Jan 29 18:36:06 2008
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:36:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <200801291217.23886.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
References: <PC1760200801281416460062c7ad81ac@msapiro>
	<200801291109.21776.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
	<B5FA9180B7671EDC2F2CBD6B@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>
	<200801291217.23886.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <200801291736.m0THa3Ek009275@unreal.eroded.org>

Mikhail T. sent the message below at 09:17 1/29/2008:
>Whatever I code up will, naturally, need to be approved by the 
>project-maintainers. This is why securing their acceptance /in 
>principle/ is important before beginning the actual work. As long as 
>the official position remains: <<We do not do a "single instance 
>store" within the archiving system of   Mailman, and I can pretty 
>much guarantee you that we never will.>> demanding work from a 
>would-be contributor is facetious and insincere... If I get 
>something like: "Uhm, interesting, please send your patches", I'll 
>get to work...
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

I think you are once again seeing this through the wrong perspective. 
Brad is saying that the current group of developers is not doing this 
because it is not perceived as a priority and there are a lot of 
other things that are. Yes, his wording was pretty discouraging but 
taken in context of all the people who ask for or even demand 
features and have no desire to contribute anything, I can understand 
why he phrased it the way he did.

Now this does not preclude anyone from making changes they desire on 
their own or from presenting them to the development team for 
possible inclusion in a future release. This is after all an open 
source project and you may use or modify it in any way you desire as 
long as you comply with the terms of the GPL. You can then contribute 
those changes back as you see fit or simply use them yourself. If a 
feature developed independently is deemed to have a sufficient 
desirability by the core team, it is very likely it will get 
incorporated at some point in an official release.

Nobody here has said that this is a worthless effort or that it will 
be automatically rejected. But you must also understand that this is 
a volunteer effort, nobody gets paid for it and you aren't paying 
anything to obtain or use the software to those volunteer developers.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From dan at thecsl.org  Tue Jan 29 22:46:25 2008
From: dan at thecsl.org (Dan MacNeil)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:46:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] script to take debian
 /var/lib/mailman/vritual-mailman to /etc/postfix/relay_domains
 /etc/postfix/reply_recipients /etc/postfix/transport_maps
Message-ID: <479F9EB1.2060602@thecsl.org>

If you are running debian etch postfix with heavy spam filtering 
on one machine and debian etch mailman on another machine without 
much spam filtering

this script will take the postfix virtual-mailman file on the 
listserv mailman machine and create the files needed by postfix
to relay the mail to the listserv machine after spam filtering

Changes to DNS and /etc/postfix/main.cf left as exercise to reader.



########### cut here ##########
#!/usr/bin/perl -wT

# copyright dan at thecsl.org
# license GNU GPL v3 or later
# (a bit self important to dignify
# this hack w/ a license)

# script converts contents of mailman-virtual
# generated on csl-lists-01.thecsl.org to
# form needed to postfix needed to relay to that host
# see book of posfix chapter 13 'mail gateways'

# before running:

	# from your listserv machine:
		# copy /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
	# to:
		/tmp/
	#... on your postfix machine


use strict;
# untaint
$ENV{PATH}='';

my $VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_FILE   = '/tmp/virtual-mailman';
my $RELAY_RECIPIENTS_FILE  = '/etc/postfix/relay_recipients';
my $TRANSPORT_MAPS_FILE    = '/etc/postfix/transport';
my $RELAY_DOMAINS_FILE	   ='/etc/postfix/relay_domains';

{    #main
     warn_if_old_file($VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_FILE);

     my @emails  = get_emails($VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_FILE);
     my @domains = get_domains(@emails);

     my @relay_domain_map_lines = map { sprintf "%-55s OK\n", $_ 
} @domains;

     my @transport_map_lines =
       map { sprintf "%-35s smtp:[$_]\n", "$_"; } @domains;

     my @relay_recipient_lines = map { sprintf "%-55s OK\n", $_ } 
@emails;

     write_and_postmap($TRANSPORT_MAPS_FILE, at transport_map_lines);
     write_and_postmap($RELAY_RECIPIENTS_FILE, 
@relay_recipient_lines);
     write_and_postmap($RELAY_DOMAINS_FILE, @relay_domain_map_lines);

     # reload postfix config
     my $cmd="/usr/sbin/postfix reload";
     (system($cmd)==0) or die "FAILED: $cmd \n"


}

sub warn_if_old_file {
     my $file        = shift;
     my $change_time = ( stat $file )[9];
     warn "\n\n$file is more than an hour old. Did you forget to 
copy the new file?\n\n"
       if ( time() - $change_time > 3600 );
}

sub get_emails {
     my $file = shift;
     my $IN;
     open $IN, $file
       or die "$! ";
     my @emails;
     while ( my $line = <$IN> ) {

         #    next if $line !~ /lists.thecsl.org/;
         next if $line !~ /\@/;
         my $email = ( split /\s+/, $line )[0];
         push @emails, $email;
     }
     @emails = sort @emails;
     close $IN or die "bad close: $!";
     return @emails;
}

sub get_domains {
     my @emails = @_;
     my @domains;
     foreach my $email (@emails) {
         $email =~ /([\w_\-\.]+)$/;
         push @domains, $1;
     }
     my %unique_domains;
     foreach my $domain (@domains) {
         $unique_domains{$domain}++;

     }
     return sort keys %unique_domains;
}

sub write_and_postmap {
  my $file=shift;
  my @lines=@_;
  my $OUT_FH;

  open $OUT_FH, '>', $file
	or die "couldn't open $file for writing: $!\n";
  print $OUT_FH @lines ;
  my $cmd="/usr/sbin/postmap $file";
  (system($cmd)==0)
	or die "FAILED: $cmd ";

}
########### cut here ##########


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Jan 29 23:24:25 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 07:24:25 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <200801291217.23886.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
References: <PC1760200801281416460062c7ad81ac@msapiro>
	<200801291109.21776.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
	<B5FA9180B7671EDC2F2CBD6B@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>
	<200801291217.23886.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <18335.42905.497051.867725@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> Mikhail T. writes:

 > Whatever I code up will, naturally, need to be approved by the
 > project-maintainers. This is why securing their acceptance /in
 > principle/ is important before beginning the actual work.

This is false.  "Open source" means you can do what you like, and
Mailman actually will distribute it for you as a patch on the issue
tracker.  Many contributions have lived full life cycles that way.
And modern version control systems mean that you can maintain it
locally as Mailman releases new versions with a minimum of pain, ie,
slightly more than the Mailman developers would experience if it were
committed to the mainline.

Also, in open source it is rare that "acceptance in principle" will be
achieved without running code or a reasonably compensated consulting
contract with the maintainer to produce the code.

 > As long as the official position remains:

 > [something signed by Brad Knowles]

(*) Anything not over Barry Warsaw's signature is *un*official,
although Mark Sapiro and Tokio Kikuchi have a huge amount to say about
what actually gets implemented.  Brad Knowles is just channelling the
main developers, although Brad's intuitions should be taken very
seriously.  He knows what is is difficult and what is not.

 > If I get something like: "Uhm, interesting, please send your
 > patches", I'll get to work... Yours,

It should go without saying that it's very interesting; this is a FAQ
(although it's not in the FAQ Wizard).  Consider carefully in light of
remark (*), and Barry Warsaw's post about Mailman 3.


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan 30 00:17:06 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:17:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Edit monthly reminder? - solved
In-Reply-To: <DCF03062-DD5D-4F65-9B51-048B8936C0B7@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020080129151706023428c1e670@msapiro>

Mikael Hansen wrote:

>On Jan 15, 2008, at 10:43, Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>> It's a template stored in /usr/local/mailman/templates/en/, which  
>> you can copy to /usr/local/mailman/lists/<listname>/en/, and then  
>> edit it locally in that directory.
>
>Done, including sudo bin/mailmanctl restart, but unfortunately my  
>list-specific cronpass.txt does not override the standard :-(


After much puzzling, this is solved.

Monthly password reminders are not sent on behalf of a specific list
even if the remindee is only a member of one list. Therefore, list
specific (and for implementation reasons, domain specific)
cronpass.txt templates don't work.

An edited cronpass.txt must be in
templates/site/<language>/cronpass.txt.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mi+mailman at aldan.algebra.com  Wed Jan 30 01:30:50 2008
From: mi+mailman at aldan.algebra.com (Mikhail T.)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 19:30:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <18335.42905.497051.867725@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC1760200801281416460062c7ad81ac@msapiro>
	<200801291217.23886.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
	<18335.42905.497051.867725@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <200801291930.50355.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>

???????? 29 ?????? 2008 05:24 ??, Stephen J. Turnbull ?? ????????:
> This is false. ?"Open source" means you can do what you like, and
> Mailman actually will distribute it for you as a patch on the issue
> tracker. ?Many contributions have lived full life cycles that way.

Thank you, sir, for the encouragement, but I don't want my hypothetical 
contribution to live this way. I've contributed plenty to various open- (and 
closed-) source projects over the years (no, really, I did) and found, that 
it hurts me the most, when something I develop is rejected not because of it 
being poorly implemented, but because the powers-that-be consider in 
wrong /in principle/.

My interest in Mailman is not sufficient to fork my own version either and I 
don't look forward to maintaining my patch(es), updating them to keep working 
with the evolving Mailman.

> Anything not over Barry Warsaw's signature is *un*official [...] Brad
> Knowles is just channelling the main developers

As you may realize, I have no idea of the Mailman project hierarchy. Brad's 
words sounded quite authoritative, and he was no contradicted in any 
follow-ups...

> It should go without saying that it's very interesting; this is a FAQ [...]

Woo-hoo. That's encouraging. Well, if the only thing, that prevented the 
feature from appearing by now, is lack of development resources, then I'll 
get right on it. Thanks,

 -mi

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Jan 30 01:40:42 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 18:40:42 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <877ihtcd1y.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <200801281258.37124.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
	<p06240801c3c3d8a2b216@[192.168.1.199]>
	<200801281640.40303.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
	<p06240800c3c427be3ce5@[192.168.1.199]>
	<877ihtcd1y.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <40739B11-1BC7-4A55-B870-651E1E77A5BF@shub-internet.org>

Google does not provide all the storage for all the content in  
question, although they may have a cache of it.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-Internet.org>

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 29, 2008, at 1:21 AM, "Stephen J. Turnbull"  
<stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:

> Brad Knowles writes:
>
>> No search engine author in their right mind should ever consider
>> doing de-duplication on their own, although they might be willing to
>> provide that feature to customers who demand the option.
>
> Google does.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Jan 30 01:56:31 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 18:56:31 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <200801291217.23886.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
References: <PC1760200801281416460062c7ad81ac@msapiro>
	<200801291109.21776.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
	<B5FA9180B7671EDC2F2CBD6B@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>
	<200801291217.23886.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <D151A7C4-2CCB-490D-81D5-119F3E429CD4@shub-internet.org>

I was speaking in terms of the practical reality of a 100% unpaid all- 
volunteer project, like Mailman. There are simply way too many other  
things going on that are much higher priority.

If you pay certain Mailman developers real money for such a feature,  
then it will get done. If you write such a feature yourself or get  
someone else to write it for you and contribute that back to the  
Mailman project, then there's at least a decent chance it may be  
considered for inclusion in a future release, although you should keep  
in mind that it takes a fair amount of time and effort to validate  
someone else's code, albeit somewhat less than writing it yourself.


I don't see any other possible options as far as the Mailman project  
is concerned.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-Internet.org>

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 29, 2008, at 11:17 AM, "Mikhail T." <mi 
+mailman at aldan.algebra.com> wrote:

> ???????? 29 ?????? 2008 12:05 ??, Steve Burling ??  
> ????????:
>> I love comments like this. ?If it "can't be too difficult...", I s 
>> uggest
>> you put on your Python programming hat, and get coding.
>
> Whatever I code up will, naturally, need to be approved by the
> project-maintainers. This is why securing their acceptance /in  
> principle/ is
> important before beginning the actual work.
>
> As long as the official position remains:
>
> <<We do not do a "single instance store" within the archiving system  
> of
>  Mailman, and I can pretty much guarantee you that we never will.>>
>
> demanding work from a would-be contributor is facetious and  
> insincere...
>
> If I get something like: "Uhm, interesting, please send your  
> patches", I'll
> get to work... Yours,
>
> -mi
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brad%40shub-internet.org
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Jan 30 02:04:57 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 19:04:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <200801291930.50355.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
References: <PC1760200801281416460062c7ad81ac@msapiro>
	<200801291217.23886.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
	<18335.42905.497051.867725@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<200801291930.50355.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <9342A222-E190-4D33-BC71-CA1537F62347@shub-internet.org>

With regards to the Mailman project, Barry Warsaw is the only one who  
can give you the definitive answer as to whether or not this concept  
is or is not acceptable in principal.

Mark Sapiro and Tokio Kikuchi may disagree with him, and if so it will  
be up to them to convince him that they are right.

I'm just a non-developer associated with the project who is pointing  
out the practical realities of the nature of the 100% unpaid/all- 
volunteer nature of the project and that there are ten thousand times  
more things that people think should be done and which are probably  
higher on the list of priorities, and we have very limited resources  
to allocate.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-Internet.org>

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 29, 2008, at 6:30 PM, "Mikhail T." <mi 
+mailman at aldan.algebra.com> wrote:

> ???????? 29 ?????? 2008 05:24 ??, Stephen J. Turnbull  
> ?? ????????:
>> This is false. ?"Open source" means you can do what you like, and
>> Mailman actually will distribute it for you as a patch on the issue
>> tracker. ?Many contributions have lived full life cycles that way.
>
> Thank you, sir, for the encouragement, but I don't want my  
> hypothetical
> contribution to live this way. I've contributed plenty to various  
> open- (and
> closed-) source projects over the years (no, really, I did) and  
> found, that
> it hurts me the most, when something I develop is rejected not  
> because of it
> being poorly implemented, but because the powers-that-be consider in
> wrong /in principle/.
>
> My interest in Mailman is not sufficient to fork my own version  
> either and I
> don't look forward to maintaining my patch(es), updating them to  
> keep working
> with the evolving Mailman.
>
>> Anything not over Barry Warsaw's signature is *un*official [...] Brad
>> Knowles is just channelling the main developers
>
> As you may realize, I have no idea of the Mailman project hierarchy.  
> Brad's
> words sounded quite authoritative, and he was no contradicted in any
> follow-ups...
>
>> It should go without saying that it's very interesting; this is a  
>> FAQ [...]
>
> Woo-hoo. That's encouraging. Well, if the only thing, that prevented  
> the
> feature from appearing by now, is lack of development resources,  
> then I'll
> get right on it. Thanks,
>
> -mi
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brad%40shub-internet.org
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>

From barry at list.org  Wed Jan 30 03:02:20 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 21:02:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <200801291217.23886.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
References: <PC1760200801281416460062c7ad81ac@msapiro>
	<200801291109.21776.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
	<B5FA9180B7671EDC2F2CBD6B@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>
	<200801291217.23886.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <5B8DB457-5ACE-4D5C-A04C-975BB532C8EA@list.org>

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On Jan 29, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Mikhail T. wrote:

> ???????? 29 ?????? 2008 12:05 ??, Steve Burling ??  
> ????????:
>> I love comments like this.  If it "can't be too difficult...", I  
>> suggest
>> you put on your Python programming hat, and get coding.
>
> Whatever I code up will, naturally, need to be approved by the
> project-maintainers. This is why securing their acceptance /in  
> principle/ is
> important before beginning the actual work.
>
> As long as the official position remains:
>
> <<We do not do a "single instance store" within the archiving system  
> of
>  Mailman, and I can pretty much guarantee you that we never will.>>
>
> demanding work from a would-be contributor is facetious and  
> insincere...
>
> If I get something like: "Uhm, interesting, please send your  
> patches", I'll
> get to work... Yours,

I encourage you to contribute code to the Mailman project.  Please  
join the mailman-developers list for further discussions.

- -Barry

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From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Jan 30 03:11:02 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:11:02 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <200801291109.21776.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
References: <PC1760200801281416460062c7ad81ac@msapiro>
	<200801281722.41956.mi+mill@aldan.algebra.com>
	<p06240801c3c42afaff1c@[192.168.1.199]>
	<200801291109.21776.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c3c58ae1195d@[192.168.1.199]>

On 1/29/08, Mikhail T. wrote:

>  May I suggest, you underestimate the importance of this feature? 
>Cross-posting
>  may often be justified from the end-user perspective, but is discouraged by
>  the admins exactly because it increases the archival-storage requirements...

I've never once heard an admin discourage cross-posting because of 
archival storage requirements.  In my experience, the issue of 
cross-posting has much more to do with political control, some admins 
not wanting their lists to be well-publicised, and no admin liking to 
have to deal with the problem when hundreds of users from other lists 
try to do a "reply-all" that includes their lists and then the 
message gets rejected or put in the hold queue because those other 
people are not subscribers to the list.

>  Brad, I brought up a particular IMAP-server's implementation as /an example/
>  of how a single message can appear in multiple mailboxes, while only copy of
>  it is stored. You refer to this as "single instance store".

We don't really have mailboxes at all.  We have mail archives.  The 
raw mail archives are kept in 7th edition "mbox" format, and for the 
"cooked" archives they are broken down by month (or other archive 
rotation policy as set by the listowner) and either stored as 
something akin to 7th edition mbox format files (for the plain text 
archives) or split up into multiple *.html files for the HTML format 
archives, but in none of these cases are any of these files what you 
would call a "mailbox" per se.

>  IMAP-server developers are just more affected by the same issue -- people
>  CC-ing multiple addressees results in the same message getting to multiple
>  mailboxes. IMAP-server admins also don't have the "luxury" of prohibiting
>  CC-ing, as mailing-list admins often do. So IMAP-servers already implement
>  the "single instance store", and it would be nice (and logical) if mailing
>  list software did too -- starting with the recognized leader of the pack...

UW-IMAP certainly doesn't do single instance store, and I'm pretty 
sure that Courier-IMAP and Dovecot don't do single instance store by 
default.  There's a lot of problems that come along with single 
instance store that people are not likely to turn on such features by 
default.

>  And yet Google does just that -- de-duplication -- in its search 
>results... It
>  will display a warning at the bottom of the page, saying that duplicate
>  results were suppressed...

That's just search results.  They're not actually storing the 
original copies of those objects, and they give you the option of 
turning off that feature if you like.

That's completely different from doing an Internet-wide 
de-duplication of all data.

>  Well, this is more important -- I was under the (mistaken) 
>impression, that it
>  does. There is no point arguing, how a good search-engine should do things on
>  a Mailman forum, if Mailman implements no search function.

We don't do forums, either.

We do provide hooks that other people have used to implement such 
features, but none of that has been incorporated into the baseline 
version of Mailman.

>  I hope, you'll give the idea of "single instance storage" another thought.
>  There is already an option to archive in "Maildir" format. Optionally storing
>  hardlinks instead of copies of cross-posts can't be too difficult...

I believe you'll find it a lot harder than you think to convert the 
entire archive storage mechanism to use Maildir as an option, and 
then to integrate single instance store on top of that.  Once you do 
that, you're welcome to contribute the code, and then it becomes a 
matter of when one of the core developers can take a look at that 
code and decide whether or not to actually incorporate that into a 
future version of Mailman.

Personally, I think we have much higher priorities elsewhere, but 
then I don't assign tasks to guys like Mark Sapiro, Tokio Kikuchi, or 
Barry Warsaw.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Jan 30 03:18:03 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:18:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <200801291930.50355.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
References: <PC1760200801281416460062c7ad81ac@msapiro>
	<200801291217.23886.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
	<18335.42905.497051.867725@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<200801291930.50355.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c3c58e46e516@[192.168.1.199]>

On 1/29/08, Mikhail T. wrote:

>  As you may realize, I have no idea of the Mailman project hierarchy. Brad's
>  words sounded quite authoritative, and he was no contradicted in any
>  follow-ups...

I'm not a core developer for the project.  I'm just the current 
active postmaster/Internet mail system 
administrator/listmaster/Mailman site admin for python.org, as well 
as the co-owner of all the various mailman-* mailing lists on 
python.org.

I try to do what I can to offload the various core developers 
(including Barry, Mark, and Tokio) and to allow them to spend as much 
time as they can on their "real" work as far as the project is 
concerned.


Feel free to check out my LinkedIn profile (URL below) if you want to 
get some idea of my previous experience in this field.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Jan 30 03:15:02 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:15:02 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <18335.42905.497051.867725@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC1760200801281416460062c7ad81ac@msapiro>
	<200801291109.21776.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
	<B5FA9180B7671EDC2F2CBD6B@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>
	<200801291217.23886.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
	<18335.42905.497051.867725@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240801c3c58d7db5ee@[192.168.1.199]>

On 1/30/08, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>  This is false.  "Open source" means you can do what you like, and
>  Mailman actually will distribute it for you as a patch on the issue
>  tracker.

Not quite.  If he uploads his code as a patch to the tracker, we will 
most likely leave it there, and at some point it may get considered 
for inclusion in a future version of Mailman.  Beyond that, we can't 
make much in the way of promises.

>  (*) Anything not over Barry Warsaw's signature is *un*official,
>  although Mark Sapiro and Tokio Kikuchi have a huge amount to say about
>  what actually gets implemented.  Brad Knowles is just channelling the
>  main developers,

I wouldn't say that I was channeling them.  I would say that I'm 
trying to do what I can to support them and to allow them to spend 
what little time they have on their "real" work, as far as the 
project is concerned.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From barry at list.org  Wed Jan 30 05:12:20 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 23:12:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <200801291930.50355.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
References: <PC1760200801281416460062c7ad81ac@msapiro>
	<200801291217.23886.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
	<18335.42905.497051.867725@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<200801291930.50355.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <84AFFAE5-F5A3-472D-8B9F-CFE24AE0E691@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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On Jan 29, 2008, at 7:30 PM, Mikhail T. wrote:

> Thank you, sir, for the encouragement, but I don't want my  
> hypothetical
> contribution to live this way. I've contributed plenty to various  
> open- (and
> closed-) source projects over the years (no, really, I did) and  
> found, that
> it hurts me the most, when something I develop is rejected not  
> because of it
> being poorly implemented, but because the powers-that-be consider in
> wrong /in principle/.

Mikhail, mailman-users is not the best place to have technical  
discussions about developing Mailman.  Use mailman-developers instead  
and we can talk about your ideas, the design, implementation  
strategies, etc.

> My interest in Mailman is not sufficient to fork my own version  
> either and I
> don't look forward to maintaining my patch(es), updating them to  
> keep working
> with the evolving Mailman.

This is one of the biggest reasons why I moved the code to the Bazaar  
VCS.  I'd really like to see a rich variety of live branches out  
there, with patches, new features and so on.  It should be easy to  
keep them up-to-date, to be living implemented proofs of the code, and  
to be much more easily merged into the trunk.  Patches sitting in a  
tracker are like dead code.

- -Barry

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From barry at list.org  Wed Jan 30 05:17:27 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 23:17:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c3c58d7db5ee@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <PC1760200801281416460062c7ad81ac@msapiro>
	<200801291109.21776.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
	<B5FA9180B7671EDC2F2CBD6B@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>
	<200801291217.23886.mi+mailman@aldan.algebra.com>
	<18335.42905.497051.867725@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240801c3c58d7db5ee@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <D1123477-7217-493D-A620-E3B613BC6E47@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Jan 29, 2008, at 9:15 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> I wouldn't say that I was channeling them.  I would say that I'm
> trying to do what I can to support them and to allow them to spend
> what little time they have on their "real" work, as far as the
> project is concerned.

Which, btw, is greatly appreciated, as is all the great work by Mark  
and Tokio, and input and experience from Stephen, Brad and others.

- -Barry

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From vvatikiotis at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 30 15:30:42 2008
From: vvatikiotis at yahoo.com (Vassilis Vatikiotis)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 06:30:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] encodings in digest messages
Message-ID: <917577.30464.qm@web39707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

hello all,

Ive been having this problem with digests and encoding. Our lists are
multilingual and since only a small fraction of the posts are written in
utf our digests get garbled, with some parts being unreadable. Is there
any way of setting up mailman so as to generate correct digests i.e.
with more than 1 encodings ?

To that end: I've set mime_is_default_digest = MIME on the web interface
of list's digest page. But stil the digests I receive are unreadable
when the text is other than english.

>From the Digest headers:
- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" (Why? Ive set it to MIME.
and why us-ascii? how can I change that?)

- (don't know if this is relevant to the problem) -
content-transfer-encoding: 7bit (why? I thought that this should be
8bit??? How do I control this?)

I've search through mm_cfg and the Default but I couldn't find anything
that could help....
any ideas?
thx,
bill vatikiotis


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jan 30 17:39:17 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 08:39:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] encodings in digest messages
In-Reply-To: <917577.30464.qm@web39707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200801300839170156354d2f0d@msapiro>

Vassilis Vatikiotis wrote:
>
>To that end: I've set mime_is_default_digest = MIME on the web interface
>of list's digest page.


This only affects the digest type for new digest members. Current
digest members have to have the type changed either by going to their
options page and choosing MIME for "Get MIME or Plain Text Digests?"
or by the admin unchecking "plain" on the Membership List pages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mikaelhansen2 at comcast.net  Wed Jan 30 17:41:11 2008
From: mikaelhansen2 at comcast.net (Mikael Hansen)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 08:41:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <ECC8A241-6271-487D-B612-696ED8303339@list.org>
References: <PC1760200801281416460062c7ad81ac@msapiro>
	<ECC8A241-6271-487D-B612-696ED8303339@list.org>
Message-ID: <DEBA0F87-FABE-4896-B28D-9DEE7AF84B7B@comcast.net>

On Jan 28, 2008, at 15:40, Barry Warsaw wrote:

> What this means is that in Mailman 3.0, there is knowledge of
> subscriptions across mailing lists, so that we could do better cross-
> posting, though this isn't implemented yet.  For example, you could
> say that the 'musicians' mailing list roster is composed of the
> rosters for the 'guitar-players' mailing list and the 'bass-players'
> mailing list, plus a bunch of directly subscribed multi-
> instrumentalists.  Mailman figures all that out when it decides who
> the recipients of the message are.

This is quite interesting. I don't believe in duplication and as such  
not in cross-posting or even better cross-posting, and so the above is  
interesting to me because I admittedly was thinking along these lines,  
as I started reading this thread.

So I enjoy the roster concept which is outlined. Still, it seems odd  
to me that the list server software can adequately decide on the  
process of eliminating duplicates. To me, the roster concept implies  
that duplicates should not have been sent by list members in the first  
place.

In other words, a proper roster structure discourages any need for  
cross-posting. It's all about expectation, I think. The expectation  
for instance that if a guitar-players list exists, a guitar-players  
discussion should not take place, just or too, on the general  
musicians list.

But when the expectation is not in place, an approach such as a list  
server's elimination of duplicates appears to an awkward uphill  
battle. In short, I wonder if the suggested feature will do more harm  
than good.

Mikael


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Jan 30 23:21:36 2008
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 07:21:36 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
In-Reply-To: <DEBA0F87-FABE-4896-B28D-9DEE7AF84B7B@comcast.net>
References: <PC1760200801281416460062c7ad81ac@msapiro>
	<ECC8A241-6271-487D-B612-696ED8303339@list.org>
	<DEBA0F87-FABE-4896-B28D-9DEE7AF84B7B@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <87myqnar9r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mikael Hansen writes:

 > So I enjoy the roster concept which is outlined. Still, it seems odd  
 > to me that the list server software can adequately decide on the  
 > process of eliminating duplicates. To me, the roster concept implies  
 > that duplicates should not have been sent by list members in the first  
 > place.

As I pointed out elsewhere (on the mailman-developers list) this is
just reinventing Usenet as a push medium.  Barry has already asked
that this conversion go there; Reply-To set.

However, it is often the case that even when themes apparently nest
(as "guitarist" nests into "musicians"), some people are interested in
a collection of "broad" threads from "musicians", some people want a
collection of "narrow" threads from "guitarists", and there is often
an overlap where it's not obvious whether it is of narrow interest or
broad interest, eg a new technique for guitarists that might have been
known by cellists, or maybe trombonists -- you don't know -- since
antiquity.  Cross-posting can't be eliminated; you can only help users
to recognize and organize the duplication.

From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Thu Jan 31 10:40:27 2008
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 04:40:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ghost Moderator Requests
In-Reply-To: <47A11628.5000105@msapiro.net>
References: <20080121214513.7AEFB1E4019@bag.python.org>
	<4795267C.9020908@msapiro.net>
	<20080123233501.8DA021E400F@bag.python.org>
	<4798C696.2080707@msapiro.net>
	<20080124231200.A8E74690092@sbh16.songbird.com>
	<47992776.5060401@msapiro.net>
	<20080126143313.69CB76900BB@sbh16.songbird.com>
	<479BA119.1040701@msapiro.net>
	<20080127050932.990A21E4018@bag.python.org>
	<479C6905.2040203@msapiro.net>
	<20080127144756.901666900BB@sbh16.songbird.com>
	<47A11628.5000105@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20080131094412.42E7C1E4012@bag.python.org>

At 07:28 PM 1/30/2008, you wrote:

>Did it?
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

Sorry for not getting back to you, I've been unusually busy. Yes, it 
did. Thanks.

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From mark at bradakis.com  Thu Jan 31 18:28:16 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:28:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Odd error - no space left on device
Message-ID: <47A20530.6000808@bradakis.com>

So all of a sudden my mailman ( version 2.1.9 ) quit working, returning
mail posted to lists with the error

   |/local/mailman/teamnet/mail/mailman post fot". Command output: Name
    "main::debugfile" used only once: possible typo at /local/majordomo/demime
    line 280. -p on unopened filehandle _PATH_LOG at /local/majordomo/demime
    line 176. Traceback (most recent call last):   File
    "/local/mailman/teamnet/scripts/post", line 69, in ?     main()   File
    "/local/mailman/teamnet/scripts/post", line 64, in main     tolist=1,
    _plaintext=1)   File "/local/mailman/teamnet/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py",
    line 132, in enqueue     fp = open(tmpfile, 'w') IOError: [Errno 28] No
    space left on device:
    '/local/mailman/teamnet/qfiles/in/1201797128.5856061+c48d781397b95ac8800fb85d888303428baf86e1.pck.tmp'


But there IS space on the disk.  Root and regular users can create new files just
fine, but mailman can't.  Any clue as to where to look for the culprit, and why
it would just start happening?

mjb.




From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jan 31 19:02:02 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:02:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Odd error - no space left on device
In-Reply-To: <47A20530.6000808@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080131100202067199be55a1@msapiro>

Mark J Bradakis wrote:

>So all of a sudden my mailman ( version 2.1.9 ) quit working, returning
>mail posted to lists with the error
>
>   |/local/mailman/teamnet/mail/mailman post fot". Command output: Name
>    "main::debugfile" used only once: possible typo at /local/majordomo/demime
>    line 280. -p on unopened filehandle _PATH_LOG at /local/majordomo/demime
>    line 176. Traceback (most recent call last):   File
>    "/local/mailman/teamnet/scripts/post", line 69, in ?     main()   File
>    "/local/mailman/teamnet/scripts/post", line 64, in main     tolist=1,
>    _plaintext=1)   File "/local/mailman/teamnet/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py",
>    line 132, in enqueue     fp = open(tmpfile, 'w') IOError: [Errno 28] No
>    space left on device:
>    '/local/mailman/teamnet/qfiles/in/1201797128.5856061+c48d781397b95ac8800fb85d888303428baf86e1.pck.tmp'
>
>
>But there IS space on the disk.  Root and regular users can create new files just
>fine, but mailman can't.  Any clue as to where to look for the culprit, and why
>it would just start happening?


The mail wrapper is being denied by the OS when it attempts to create
the incoming queue entry. This is a question for your OS, but perhaps
the mailman user has a disk quota which is exceeded, or perhaps it is
only the partition which contains /local/mailman/teamnet/qfiles/in
which is full.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan