From sfantar at snurf.info Thu May 1 10:14:12 2008 From: sfantar at snurf.info (Shams Fantar) Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 10:14:12 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] installing mailman and sendmail In-Reply-To: <200804302122.m3ULM7ff015504@julie.lostwells.net> References: <200804302122.m3ULM7ff015504@julie.lostwells.net> Message-ID: <48197BD4.2030600@snurf.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hank van Cleef wrote: > I'm going to jump in here as I run Mailman with sendmail on a Solaris > system. I can't comment on pecuiliarities of a Linux precompiled > distribution. > > The Mailman installation manual goes through the steps of enabling > a link to smrsh. > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node32.html > > Additionally, you'll need to enable the sendmail smrsh capability. > You need to do this by adding a line in the main.mc file for sendmail > and rerunning the M4 process to recreate the sendmail.cf file. > The line to add is: > > FEATURE(smrsh, /usr/lib/smrsh)dnl > > This assumes that the smrsh executable is in /usr/lib. Apparently, I have to put the "FEATURE..." in /etc/mail/sendmail.mc > > If you are trying to run with a precompiled sendmail, you'll need to > configure main.mc for a variety of things that generally aren't in > default installations; the line above in "in addition to" selecting > things like relay control, masquerading, access_db, virtusertable etc. etc. > > Hank > - -- Shams Fantar (Website : http://snurf.info) My public GPG Key : http://snurf.info/sfantar.gpg ? A book is like a garden carried in the pocket. ? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIGXvU5ChwvXmalbURAuXpAJ4qrd4chEIOgX8HKSUIAnCytPM4LgCgsXEL c5EvReosRl96gzk0Pq8xdMA= =5oP6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From honneus at cisco.com Thu May 1 15:42:19 2008 From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus)) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 09:42:19 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with Sendmail Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D86550A7@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Hi, I'm a little confused about something regarding setting up Mailman to run using Sendmail. The following are instructions for how to create the mailman user. My first question is, why is the user created with no shell and no home? The documentation does not explain the reason why this is needed. % groupadd mailman % useradd -c''GNU Mailman'' -s /no/shell -d /no/home -g mailman mailman Second, in Ed Greenbergs workaround for integrating with Sendmail without mm-handler (I am doing this b/c I need to run with both maillists and individual users), the following instructions are given. 5. As mailman, run /home/mailman/bin/genaliases Check for a file /home/mailman/data/aliases and also TWO files /etc/mailman.aliases and /etc/mailman.aliases.db 6. Test creating a list using /home/mailman/bin/newlist Check for the appearance of aliases for that list in /etc/mailman.aliases Add some users and test the list First, I don't see how to login or sudo as mailman if the user is set up without a shell. Second, both steps refer to a home directory that does not exist if the user is set up with no home. In other words, the instructions seem to contradict the basic instruction for how to set up the mailman user. Please help me better understand what is needed here. Thanks, Bill From dragon at crimson-dragon.com Thu May 1 17:13:40 2008 From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon) Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 08:13:40 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with Sendmail In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D86550A7@xmb-rtp-213.amer.ci sco.com> References: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D86550A7@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Message-ID: <200805011506.m41F6j6A026852@newbox.eroded.org> Bill Honneus (honneus) wrote: >Hi, > >I'm a little confused about something regarding setting up Mailman to >run using Sendmail. The following are instructions for how to create >the mailman user. My first question is, why is the user created with no >shell and no home? The documentation does not explain the reason why >this is needed. > >% groupadd mailman >% useradd -c''GNU Mailman'' -s /no/shell -d /no/home -g mailman mailman > This is a standard security tactic for user accounts that are there for the sole purpose of running daemon processes. It helps prevent an attacker from usurping control under that user name. I would seriously suggest following the convention as it is an added layer of protection against malicious access. >Second, in Ed Greenbergs workaround for integrating with Sendmail >without mm-handler (I am doing this b/c I need to run with both >maillists and individual users), the following instructions are given. > >5. As mailman, run /home/mailman/bin/genaliases >Check for a file /home/mailman/data/aliases and >also TWO files /etc/mailman.aliases and /etc/mailman.aliases.db > >6. Test creating a list using /home/mailman/bin/newlist >Check for the appearance of aliases for that list in >/etc/mailman.aliases >Add some users and test the list > >First, I don't see how to login or sudo as mailman if the user is set up >without a shell. Second, both steps refer to a home directory that does >not exist if the user is set up with no home. In other words, the >instructions seem to contradict the basic instruction for how to set up >the mailman user. > >Please help me better understand what is needed here. Well, you are correct, you can't sudo if there is no shell for the user you want to impersonate. But that is irrelevant here as there is no need to do so (see next paragraph). Based on what you quote above, it seems to me that he has installed his mailman distribution in the /home/mailman directory. The default installation directory for a source install is /usr/local/mailman, some packaged versions are put in other places by the distribution authors. Now you really do not need to sudo as the mailman user. All you need to do is be a member of the mailman group. You should add yourself to the mailman group you would have created during setup and then you will be able to execute the scripts. This is predicated on all of the scripts having proper permissions so you would have had to run the bin/check_perms script with the -f option until you received no errors (run it as root when you do that). Dragon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From brad at shub-internet.org Thu May 1 17:29:55 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 10:29:55 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with Sendmail In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D86550A7@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> References: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D86550A7@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Message-ID: <4819E1F3.9030700@shub-internet.org> Bill Honneus (honneus) wrote: > I'm a little confused about something regarding setting up Mailman to > run using Sendmail. The following are instructions for how to create > the mailman user. My first question is, why is the user created with no > shell and no home? The documentation does not explain the reason why > this is needed. Because Mailman doesn't need the shell or the home directory, and they pose a potential security risk if they are present. So, leave them out and you avoid the potential security risk. > First, I don't see how to login or sudo as mailman if the user is set up > without a shell. Neither sudo nor a plain "su" need to have a shell for the user. All you're changing is your effective UID (EUID), but the rest of your environment comes from your real UID that you used to log in with. > Second, both steps refer to a home directory that does > not exist if the user is set up with no home. You're confusing the root of the directory structure where the Mailman code is installed with the /etc/passwd concept of "home directory". You can have /usr/local/mailman be the root of the directory structure for Mailman (and called the "Mailman home directory"), without having a home directory specified in /etc/passwd for this user. Yes, this can be confusing. > In other words, the > instructions seem to contradict the basic instruction for how to set up > the mailman user. In the alternative, you could go ahead and list this directory as the home directory in /etc/passwd, but doing that doesn't really buy you anything from the security or systems operations standpoint. > Please help me better understand what is needed here. Hope this helps. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From dragon at crimson-dragon.com Thu May 1 17:43:23 2008 From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon) Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 08:43:23 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with Sendmail In-Reply-To: <4819E1F3.9030700@shub-internet.org> References: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D86550A7@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> <4819E1F3.9030700@shub-internet.org> Message-ID: <200805011536.m41FaSSB027270@newbox.eroded.org> Brad Knowles wrote: >Neither sudo nor a plain "su" need to have a shell for the >user. All you're changing is your effective UID (EUID), but the >rest of your environment comes from your real UID that you used to log in with. ---------------- End original message. --------------------- Hmm... maybe on some flavors of *nix, but on my server, if there is no shell set for a user, you can't sudo or su to that user ID. At least not while I am logged in under my account. I just tried it to confirm, I also tried it while running as root with the same result "This account is currently not available." I'm running an RHEL 5 box. As I stated in my earlier reply, I do have my account set up as part of the mailman group. I can run mailman scripts with no problem without having to sudo to anything else. Dragon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From brad at shub-internet.org Thu May 1 18:07:38 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 11:07:38 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with Sendmail In-Reply-To: <200805011536.m41FaSSB027270@newbox.eroded.org> References: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D86550A7@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> <4819E1F3.9030700@shub-internet.org> <200805011536.m41FaSSB027270@newbox.eroded.org> Message-ID: <4819EACA.6060101@shub-internet.org> Dragon quoted me: >> Neither sudo nor a plain "su" need to have a shell for the user. All >> you're changing is your effective UID (EUID), but the rest of your >> environment comes from your real UID that you used to log in with. > ---------------- End original message. --------------------- > > Hmm... maybe on some flavors of *nix, but on my server, if there is no > shell set for a user, you can't sudo or su to that user ID. At least not > while I am logged in under my account. Hmm. On all the OSes I have experience with, you only need a shell for the user in question if you're doing an "su -", which would set up everything exactly as if you had logged in as that user from the login screen. > As I stated in my earlier reply, I do have my account set up as part of > the mailman group. I can run mailman scripts with no problem without > having to sudo to anything else. And you can always run them as root, too. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 1 18:09:08 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 09:09:08 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] installing mailman and sendmail In-Reply-To: <48197BD4.2030600@snurf.info> Message-ID: Shams Fantar wrote: > >Hank van Cleef wrote: > [...] >> Additionally, you'll need to enable the sendmail smrsh capability. >> You need to do this by adding a line in the main.mc file for sendmail >> and rerunning the M4 process to recreate the sendmail.cf file. >> The line to add is: >> = > >> FEATURE(smrsh, /usr/lib/smrsh)dnl >> = > >> This assumes that the smrsh executable is in /usr/lib. > >Apparently, I have to put the "FEATURE..." in /etc/mail/sendmail.mc You do not want to do this. Enabling smrsh in sendmail is not going to solve any of your problem - if anything, it will only make things worse. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From gubitz at netcologne.de Thu May 1 18:25:29 2008 From: gubitz at netcologne.de (Hans Gubitz) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 18:25:29 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] local ip in links In-Reply-To: References: <20080430180224.GA6017@redwitz79.de> Message-ID: <20080501162529.GB10900@redwitz79.de> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 01:37:15PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Hans Gubitz wrote: > > > >Overview of all ... mailing links > >points here to the local ip of the server, where all other links point > >to the right url. > > > If you mean the actual target of that link contains the IP, I don't > understand because this is generated the same way as all the other > links, e.g the " administrative interface" link right above > it. The are generated in different ways. In HTMLFormatter.py I read, that the first two lines of the footer use MailList.GetScriptURL() which returns Utils.ScriptURL, that includes self.web_page_url The third line - my problem - uses Utils.ScriptURL with exactly one parameter. So web_page_url==None and it is set by get_domain(). That is my problem. get_domain() returns the local ip of my listserver which is a virtual host. May be apache is not configured the right way. My workaround: Utils.get_domain(): return mm_cfg.DEFAULT_URL_HOST Hans -- Hans Gubitz -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 1 18:46:22 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 09:46:22 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] local ip in links In-Reply-To: <20080501162529.GB10900@redwitz79.de> Message-ID: Hans Gubitz wrote: > >On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 01:37:15PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> Hans Gubitz wrote: >> > >> >Overview of all ... mailing links >> >points here to the local ip of the server, where all other links point >> >to the right url. >> >> >> If you mean the actual target of that link contains the IP, I don't >> understand because this is generated the same way as all the other >> links, e.g the " administrative interface" link right above >> it. > > >The are generated in different ways. All the links are generated by mlist.GetScriptURL() >In HTMLFormatter.py I read, that the first two lines of the footer use >MailList.GetScriptURL() which returns Utils.ScriptURL, that includes >self.web_page_url > >The third line - my problem - uses Utils.ScriptURL with exactly one >parameter. So web_page_url==None and it is set by get_domain(). > >That is my problem. get_domain() returns the local ip of my listserver >which is a virtual host. May be apache is not configured the right way. If VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Yes (the default), Utils.get_domain() returns what the web server set in the environment as HTTP_HOST or SERVER_NAME if there's no HTTP_HOST. This is normally set to the host name portion of the URL that was used to access the page. >My workaround: >Utils.get_domain(): > return mm_cfg.DEFAULT_URL_HOST If you want to unconditionally return DEFAULT_URL_HOST, don't modify Utils.py. Just set VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = No in mm_cfg.py. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From worldoff9908 at sacbeemail.com Thu May 1 19:22:49 2008 From: worldoff9908 at sacbeemail.com (NFN Smith) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 10:22:49 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail/News duplicates problem Message-ID: I'm not sure if this is a problem with Mailman or INN, but I'll start on the Mailman side. If it's an INN problem, I'll be happy to redirect my question to the appropriate forum. I'm in the process of adding a news/mail gateway to a server that's running Mailman 2.1.9-7 on a Debian 4.0 box. I'm adding INN 2.4.3-1 . Both Mailman and INN are installed from the Debian Stable channel. Where I'm having problems is with messages posted from the news side -- they're gated into Mailman, and distributed correctly to mailing list subscribers, but then a copy of the message goes back through to the INN server, and INN isn't recognizing the message as having been seen, and the result is that the news side of thing sees a duplicate copy of the message. On further inspection, the duplicate message has clearly been submitted to news by Mailman, and includes lots of Mailman-specific headers. In particular, the Message-ID: header is rewritten by Mailman, and I'm assuming that INN relies on Message-ID: to track what has been seen or not. This is happening with nearly all the mailing lists configured to be gated to news on this server, with the exception of one list, where I'm not getting dupes. This implies that the difficulty is specific to the configuration of individual lists, but I can't see any difference in configurations on either Mailman or INN between the list/newsgroups that are getting duplicates, and the one that isn't. It looks like I'm missing something small, but I'm not seeing it. Any clue as to where I should start looking? Composed by sacbeemail. Get Your Free E-mail at http://www.sacbeemail.com . Or visit Northern California?s premiere news and information website at http://www.sacbee.com . From brad at shub-internet.org Thu May 1 19:48:53 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 12:48:53 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail/News duplicates problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <481A0285.5060001@shub-internet.org> NFN Smith wrote: > Where I'm having problems is with messages posted from the news side > -- they're gated into Mailman, and distributed correctly to mailing > list subscribers, but then a copy of the message goes back through to > the INN server, and INN isn't recognizing the message as having been > seen, and the result is that the news side of thing sees a duplicate > copy of the message. What I've seen a lot is that people tend to post to news with clients that also send out a copy by e-mail, and the mailing list is configured to gateway articles back to the newsgroup, thus resulting in duplicates. Another source of duplication is if you have multiple people operating mail-to-news gateways. > On further inspection, the duplicate message has clearly been > submitted to news by Mailman, and includes lots of Mailman-specific > headers. In particular, the Message-ID: header is rewritten by > Mailman, and I'm assuming that INN relies on Message-ID: to track what > has been seen or not. INN does rely on the Message-ID to track whether or not it has seen this particular message, but an article being gatewayed in via USENET should not then be gatewayed back out to USENET by Mailman. The pipeline of routines within Mailman should be set up to avoid precisely that condition. However, see FAQ 4.59 at for the reasons why Mailman modifies the Message-ID header on incoming USENET news. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 1 20:02:42 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 11:02:42 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail/News duplicates problem In-Reply-To: <481A0285.5060001@shub-internet.org> Message-ID: Brad Knowles wrote: > >INN does rely on the Message-ID to track whether or not it has seen this >particular message, but an article being gatewayed in via USENET should not >then be gatewayed back out to USENET by Mailman. The pipeline of routines >within Mailman should be set up to avoid precisely that condition. Exactly. When cron/gate_news polls the news group and posts messages to the Mailman list, it puts a fromusenet flag in the message's metadata. The ToUsenet handler looks for this flag and will not process the message if it is present. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From worldoff9908 at sacbeemail.com Thu May 1 21:34:16 2008 From: worldoff9908 at sacbeemail.com (NFN Smith) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 12:34:16 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail/News duplicates problem Message-ID: >> Brad Knowles wrote: >> >>INN does rely on the Message-ID to track whether or not it has seen this >>particular message, but an article being gatewayed in via USENET should not >>then be gatewayed back out to USENET by Mailman. The pipeline of routines >>within Mailman should be set up to avoid precisely that condition. > Exactly. When cron/gate_news polls the news group and posts messages to > the Mailman list, it puts a fromusenet flag in the message's metadata. > The ToUsenet handler looks for this flag and will not process the > message if it is present. OK, that makes sense. Any idea why fromusenet is getting ignored (or perhaps, never being created)? Composed by sacbeemail. Get Your Free E-mail at http://www.sacbeemail.com . Or visit Northern California?s premiere news and information website at http://www.sacbee.com . From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 1 22:08:06 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 13:08:06 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail/News duplicates problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: NFN Smith wrote: > >> Exactly. When cron/gate_news polls the news group and posts messages to >> the Mailman list, it puts a fromusenet flag in the message's metadata. >> The ToUsenet handler looks for this flag and will not process the >> message if it is present. > >OK, that makes sense. > >Any idea why fromusenet is getting ignored (or perhaps, never being >created)? I don't think that's what's happening at all. I think a more likely scenario is, as Brad suggested in his reply, that the original is posted to the newsgroup with a copy to the Mailman list. Thus, there are really two copies of the post, one to the news group which gets gated to the Mailman list and one to the Mailman list which gets gated to the news group. Do the 'duplicates' appear on both the Mailman list and the news group? Note that even if two copies are sent to the list members, the post may only appear once in the archive on the Mailman side if the two had the same message id. I can't be sure that this is what's happening, but it would help to see the full headers from both posts on the news group and from however many copies of the post are in Mailman's archives/private/list.mbos/list.mbox file. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From honneus at cisco.com Thu May 1 22:50:46 2008 From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus)) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 16:50:46 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions issue w/ Apache Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655342@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Hi, I just completed the mailman setup instructions and was able to create a mail list with the command line option and receive an email notification. However, the Apache web browsing part doesn't seem to work as I get a permissions error page when I attempt to browse to "http:///mailman/create. I have my httpd.conf set up to point the alias to the mailman script folder as such: ScritpAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/" The permissions on each script are shown below: -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21127 Apr 29 17:43 admin -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 admindb -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 confirm -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 create -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 edithtml -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 listinfo -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 options -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 private -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 rmlist -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 roster -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 subscribe Can somebody please recommend the next step(s) to troubleshoot this issue? Thanks in advance! Bill From dragon at crimson-dragon.com Thu May 1 23:00:43 2008 From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon) Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 14:00:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions issue w/ Apache In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655342@xmb-rtp-213.amer.ci sco.com> References: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655342@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Message-ID: <200805012053.m41KrkNH031721@newbox.eroded.org> Bill Honneus (honneus) wrote: >Hi, > >I just completed the mailman setup instructions and was able to create a >mail list with the command line option and receive an email >notification. However, the Apache web browsing part doesn't seem to >work as I get a permissions error page when I attempt to browse to >"http:///mailman/create. I have my httpd.conf set >up to point the alias to the mailman script folder as such: > >ScritpAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/" > >The permissions on each script are shown below: > >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21127 Apr 29 17:43 admin >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 admindb >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 confirm >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 create >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 edithtml >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 listinfo >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 options >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 private >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 rmlist >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 roster >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 subscribe > >Can somebody please recommend the next step(s) to troubleshoot this >issue? > >Thanks in advance! > ---------------- End original message. --------------------- It is quite possible your system is running SElinux. See: http://www.revsys.com/writings/quicktips/turn-off-selinux.html If it is running, turn it off as described on that page and try again. If that works, you will have to decide if you want to just keep it off or go to the trouble of configuring SElinux. Dragon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 1 23:34:46 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 14:34:46 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions issue w/ Apache In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655342@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Message-ID: Bill Honneus wrote: > >I just completed the mailman setup instructions and was able to create a >mail list with the command line option and receive an email >notification. However, the Apache web browsing part doesn't seem to >work as I get a permissions error page when I attempt to browse to >"http:///mailman/create. I have my httpd.conf set >up to point the alias to the mailman script folder as such: > >ScritpAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/" > >The permissions on each script are shown below: > >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21127 Apr 29 17:43 admin >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 admindb >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 confirm >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 create >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 edithtml >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 listinfo >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 options >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 private >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 rmlist >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 roster >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 subscribe > >Can somebody please recommend the next step(s) to troubleshoot this >issue? What is the exact error in the apache error-log? Just guessing, but I suspect you may not have allowed access to /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/. You may need Order allow,deny Allow from all in your httpd.conf. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From honneus at cisco.com Thu May 1 23:39:49 2008 From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus)) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 17:39:49 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions issue w/ Apache In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655364@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Hi Mark, That was the problem. I added that directory statement and I now get an error page showing the following: Mailman CGI error!!! The Mailman CGI wrapper encountered a fatal error. This entry is being stored in your syslog: Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the CGI wrapper script to be executed as group "nobody", but the system's web server executed the CGI script as group "apache". Try tweaking the web server to run the script as group "nobody", or re-run configure, providing the command line option `--with-cgi-gid=apache'. This seems self explanatory enough. So now if I run ./configure again from my original staging area with the above mentioned option, will I need to run "make install" again afterwards and redo all my original custom configuration? Thanks! Bill -----Original Message----- From: mailman-users-bounces+honneus=cisco.com at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+honneus=cisco.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 5:35 PM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Permissions issue w/ Apache Bill Honneus wrote: > >I just completed the mailman setup instructions and was able to create >a mail list with the command line option and receive an email >notification. However, the Apache web browsing part doesn't seem to >work as I get a permissions error page when I attempt to browse to >"http:///mailman/create. I have my httpd.conf set >up to point the alias to the mailman script folder as such: > >ScritpAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/" > >The permissions on each script are shown below: > >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21127 Apr 29 17:43 admin -rwxr-sr-x 1 root >mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 admindb -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr >29 17:43 confirm -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 create >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 edithtml -rwxr-sr-x 1 >root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 listinfo -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman >21159 Apr 29 17:43 options -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 >17:43 private -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 rmlist >-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 roster -rwxr-sr-x 1 root >mailman 21159 Apr 29 17:43 subscribe > >Can somebody please recommend the next step(s) to troubleshoot this >issue? What is the exact error in the apache error-log? Just guessing, but I suspect you may not have allowed access to /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/. You may need Order allow,deny Allow from all in your httpd.conf. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/honneus%40cisco.com Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 1 23:55:23 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 14:55:23 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions issue w/ Apache In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655364@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Message-ID: Bill Honneus > >That was the problem. I added that directory statement and I now get an >error page showing the following: > >Mailman CGI error!!! >The Mailman CGI wrapper encountered a fatal error. This entry is being >stored in your syslog: >Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the CGI wrapper script to be >executed as group "nobody", but the system's web server executed the CGI >script as group "apache". Try tweaking the web server to run the script >as group "nobody", or re-run configure, providing the command line >option `--with-cgi-gid=apache'. > >This seems self explanatory enough. So now if I run ./configure again >from my original staging area with the above mentioned option, will I >need to run "make install" again afterwards and redo all my original >custom configuration? I'm not sure what you mean by "custom configuration", but any changes you have made in mm_cfg.py will not be affected by the ./configure, make install process which never overwrites an existing mm_cfg.py. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From honneus at cisco.com Fri May 2 00:07:02 2008 From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus)) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 18:07:02 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions issue w/ Apache In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655379@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Thanks, Mark. It looks like this is working now. Much appreciated! Bill -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 5:55 PM To: Bill Honneus (honneus); mailman-users at python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Permissions issue w/ Apache Bill Honneus > >That was the problem. I added that directory statement and I now get >an error page showing the following: > >Mailman CGI error!!! >The Mailman CGI wrapper encountered a fatal error. This entry is being >stored in your syslog: >Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the CGI wrapper script to be >executed as group "nobody", but the system's web server executed the >CGI script as group "apache". Try tweaking the web server to run the >script as group "nobody", or re-run configure, providing the command >line option `--with-cgi-gid=apache'. > >This seems self explanatory enough. So now if I run ./configure again >from my original staging area with the above mentioned option, will I >need to run "make install" again afterwards and redo all my original >custom configuration? I'm not sure what you mean by "custom configuration", but any changes you have made in mm_cfg.py will not be affected by the ./configure, make install process which never overwrites an existing mm_cfg.py. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From kbejong at iot.IN.gov Fri May 2 18:56:55 2008 From: kbejong at iot.IN.gov (Bejong, Kay) Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 12:56:55 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.9 List Problem Message-ID: <426EF2F12F7A8546B4B182FFE53AE6B7032BE5E9@IOTEVSP04VW.shared.state.in.us> We are running Mailman 2.1.9 and had a moderated list with 17,000 users which had several issues and I was wondering whether anyone has noticed this behavior: 1. list members were able to reply to all 2. http interface became unusable 3. list members sent Unsubscribe message to all users on the list and it was not filtered as an admin request, even though configured to do so. 4. command lines "hung" and were unresponsive. Eventually after re importing the configuration, we were able to put the list on emergency moderation and it is now acting as it should. Thanks! Kay C. Bejong System Administrator From mark at msapiro.net Fri May 2 19:21:23 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 10:21:23 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.9 List Problem In-Reply-To: <426EF2F12F7A8546B4B182FFE53AE6B7032BE5E9@IOTEVSP04VW.shared.state.in.us> Message-ID: Bejong, Kay wrote: > >We are running Mailman 2.1.9 and had a moderated list with 17,000 users >which had several issues and I was wondering whether anyone has noticed >this behavior: >1. list members were able to reply to all I do not understand what this means. Do you mean that a moderated member was able to post to the list without the post being held, or do you mean something else? >2. http interface became unusable >3. list members sent Unsubscribe message to all users on the list and it >was not filtered as an admin request, even though configured to do so. >4. command lines "hung" and were unresponsive. 2. and 4. sound like a stale lock problem. See . For 3., the filtering of administrivia from the list is very simplistic. For a message to be detected as administrivia, it must have fewer than DEFAULT_MAIL_COMMANDS_MAX_LINES (default 25) non-empty body lines preceding a "-- " signature separator, and then the body must either consist of a single command word, or there must be within the Subject: line and the first 5 body lines, a line that looks like an email command with an appropriate number of arguments. I.e., a message that has a line Unsubscribe me from this list will not be detected as administrivia because the "Unsubscribe" command has too many arguments. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From roobin at theriver.com Fri May 2 20:03:01 2008 From: roobin at theriver.com (Rueben) Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 11:03:01 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] no moderator notification Message-ID: <289601c8ac7e$c3faa7e0$0700000a@delta> Hi, Moderators to my list do not get notifications that there is a pending message. I entered their email addresses on both the general page and the detail page. As the list owner, I get a notification that there are messages pending, but the moderators do not. The list was existing before I took over, and I only changed the email addresses. This might be completely stupid, but do AOL email addresses work with Mailman? I know... sounds dumb, but after reading the FAQ's and archives I'm getting desparate. Please be as non-tech as you can in your reply. This is new to me. Thanks. Ruben. From brad at shub-internet.org Fri May 2 20:28:44 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 13:28:44 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] no moderator notification In-Reply-To: <289601c8ac7e$c3faa7e0$0700000a@delta> References: <289601c8ac7e$c3faa7e0$0700000a@delta> Message-ID: <481B5D5C.80605@shub-internet.org> Rueben wrote: > Moderators to my list do not get notifications that there is a pending > message. I entered their email addresses on both the general page and the > detail page. > > As the list owner, I get a notification that there are messages pending, > but the moderators do not. Hmm. That's weird. That means the cron job is running, but it's not notifying the correct people. > The list was existing before I took over, and I only changed the email > addresses. > > This might be completely stupid, but do AOL email addresses work with > Mailman? I know... sounds dumb, but after reading the FAQ's and archives > I'm getting desparate. Well, AOL can cause certain problems. Same is true for all large providers that may just throw away e-mail that they think is spam, and you never even know what they've done. You should also check your spam folder, to see if AOL accepted it but then did not put it in your regular mailbox. The third possibility is that the messages are still sitting on your server and have not yet been delivered, but have also not yet been bounced. However, you'd need to know how to interact with your server at the Unix command-line level in order to take a closer look at this issue. Your site admin should be able to help you with this process, unless that's you. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From mark at msapiro.net Fri May 2 20:40:09 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 11:40:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] no moderator notification In-Reply-To: <289601c8ac7e$c3faa7e0$0700000a@delta> Message-ID: Rueben wrote: > >Moderators to my list do not get notifications that there is a pending message. I entered their email addresses on both the general page and the detail page. It doesn't matter if you enter the addresses on the General Options page or on the moderator detail page. Once an address or addresses are entered either place, they should appear both places (you may have to "reload" the General Options page after returning from details to see the change) as they are both the same list attribute. >As the list owner, I get a notification that there are messages pending, but the moderators do not. If you as "owner" are getting the notices, the notices are also being sent to the addresses listed as "moderator". What happens to them after that depends on a lot of things. Notices are actually sent to the listname-owner address and then received by Mailman and resent to the owners and moderators. You can test by just sending an ordinary email to your listname-owner at ... address. If the moderators receive that, but they don't receive moderation notices, it may be because the moderation notices have a "Precedence: bulk" header which may cause the recipient server to discard them. >The list was existing before I took over, and I only changed the email addresses. > >This might be completely stupid, but do AOL email addresses work with Mailman? I know... sounds dumb, but after reading the FAQ's and archives I'm getting desparate. See if you haven't already. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From z.szalbot at lc-words.com Fri May 2 20:46:43 2008 From: z.szalbot at lc-words.com (Zbigniew Szalbot) Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 20:46:43 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] misleading description Message-ID: <481B6193.9050009@lc-words.com> Hi all, I wonder if it is possible to change a description which appears on options page when you try to unsubscribe. Suppose you enter your email address at the general list information page. Then the options page gets displayed and you click the Unsubscribe button. There appears a message: The confirmation email has been sent. This is all right if you entered the right email address. But if by mistake you have entered an email address you are not subscribed with, the page still claims that a confirmation email has been sent but in fact it hasn't. I have run into this problem recently. I have pressed the Unsubscribe button a few times and waited for the confirmation email. However, it has never arrived. Only later did I realize I was trying to unsubscribe with a wrong email address. I think a message like "No such address in our database" would be a lot more helpful. Do you think this could be changed? Thanks! -- Zbigniew Szalbot www.lc-words.com From mark at msapiro.net Fri May 2 21:23:39 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 12:23:39 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] misleading description In-Reply-To: <481B6193.9050009@lc-words.com> Message-ID: Zbigniew Szalbot wrote: > >I wonder if it is possible to change a description which appears on >options page when you try to unsubscribe. Suppose you enter your email >address at the general list information page. Then the options page gets >displayed and you click the Unsubscribe button. There appears a message: > >The confirmation email has been sent. This message only appears for a non-member if the roster is non-public (available only to the admin or to list members). With a public roster, the message is 'No such member: user at example.com'. With a non-public roster, the message must be the same whether or not the address is a list member. Otherwise, this could be used to probe for list membership information. Granted the message could be changed from "The confirmation email has been sent." to something like "The confirmation email has been sent if user at example.com is a list member." Do you think this would help? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From roobin at theriver.com Fri May 2 21:53:09 2008 From: roobin at theriver.com (Rueben) Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 12:53:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] no moderator notification References: Message-ID: <28b501c8ac8e$267c8f50$0700000a@delta> Thanks for your reply, but I'm not sure how your suggestions help me. If the problem is with AOL, would that prevent other people from receiving the notices as well? Where would I look to see if the messages are being sent to the moderators? I'm going to remove the AOL address from the moderator list, add myself, and post a test message. Let's see if I get a reply as a moderator. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Sapiro" To: "Rueben" ; Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] no moderator notification > Rueben wrote: >> >>Moderators to my list do not get notifications that there is a pending >>message. I entered their email addresses on both the general page and the >>detail page. > > > It doesn't matter if you enter the addresses on the General Options > page or on the moderator detail page. Once an address or addresses are > entered either place, they should appear both places (you may have to > "reload" the General Options page after returning from details to see > the change) as they are both the same list attribute. > > >>As the list owner, I get a notification that there are messages pending, >>but the moderators do not. > > > If you as "owner" are getting the notices, the notices are also being > sent to the addresses listed as "moderator". > > What happens to them after that depends on a lot of things. > > Notices are actually sent to the listname-owner address and then > received by Mailman and resent to the owners and moderators. You can > test by just sending an ordinary email to your listname-owner at ... > address. If the moderators receive that, but they don't receive > moderation notices, it may be because the moderation notices have a > "Precedence: bulk" header which may cause the recipient server to > discard them. > > >>The list was existing before I took over, and I only changed the email >>addresses. >> >>This might be completely stupid, but do AOL email addresses work with >>Mailman? I know... sounds dumb, but after reading the FAQ's and archives >>I'm getting desparate. > > > See > > if you haven't already. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > From brad at shub-internet.org Fri May 2 23:14:50 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 16:14:50 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] no moderator notification In-Reply-To: <28b501c8ac8e$267c8f50$0700000a@delta> References: <28b501c8ac8e$267c8f50$0700000a@delta> Message-ID: <481B844A.5010102@shub-internet.org> Rueben wrote: > Thanks for your reply, but I'm not sure how your suggestions help me. > > If the problem is with AOL, would that prevent other people from > receiving the notices as well? Possibly, if they're also on AOL -- keep in mind that the address you see could always be forwarded by that system over to an address somewhere else, like AOL. You could also see the same behaviour if their provider does the same thing. > Where would I look to see if the messages are being sent to the moderators? You'd need to look in the logs and the queues for your mail server. > I'm going to remove the AOL address from the moderator list, add myself, > and post a test message. Let's see if I get a reply as a moderator. Sounds reasonable. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From z.szalbot at lc-words.com Sat May 3 09:04:09 2008 From: z.szalbot at lc-words.com (Zbigniew Szalbot) Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 09:04:09 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] misleading description In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <481C0E69.1020506@lc-words.com> Hello, > This message only appears for a non-member if the roster is non-public > (available only to the admin or to list members). With a public > roster, the message is 'No such member: user at example.com'. Ah, I see. In today's world an option for members to see other members' addresses sounds dangerous and may even be such. But I see now why this happens. > Granted the message could be changed from "The confirmation email has > been sent." to something like "The confirmation email has been sent if > user at example.com is a list member." Do you think this would help? Yes, it would be a lot more informative. Maybe in future it would be better to just disallow anyone to view a member's list and give a clear indication whether email has or has not been sent. If the unsubscribe script cannot be exploited remotely, then I do not see probing as a real threat (especially if additionally secured by some captcha code or the like). But then I may not see all the consequences of such solution. Anyway, thanks for Mailman! -- Zbigniew Szalbot www.lc-words.com From roobin at theriver.com Sat May 3 16:27:29 2008 From: roobin at theriver.com (Rueben) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 07:27:29 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] pass mime types Message-ID: <001401c8ad29$d2733890$0700000a@delta> Under content filtering there is a field labeled: Remove message attachments that don't have a matching content type. In the box I have: multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain Can someone explain what each of those entries means, and give examples as to what kind of files would be affected by each filter? Thanks, R. From mark at msapiro.net Sat May 3 19:11:47 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 10:11:47 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] pass mime types In-Reply-To: <001401c8ad29$d2733890$0700000a@delta> Message-ID: Rueben wrote: >Under content filtering there is a field labeled: Remove message attachments that don't have a matching content type. > >In the box I have: >multipart/mixed >multipart/alternative >text/plain > >Can someone explain what each of those entries means, and give examples as to what kind of files would be affected by each filter? Those entries are the MIME content types that content filtering will accept. Any message part with a content-type other that those three will be filtered out. For example, in a message with the following structure multipart/alternative text/plain text/html The multipart/alternative part will be accepted and it's sub-parts examined. Of those, only the text/plain part will be accepted and the text/html part will be removed. For this message multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain text/html application/msword again, only the text/plain part will be accepted and the text/html and application/msword parts will be removed. For this message multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain text/html image/jpeg nothing will be accepted because the entire multipart/related message content type is not accepted. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From brad at shub-internet.org Sat May 3 19:55:04 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 12:55:04 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] misleading description In-Reply-To: <481C0E69.1020506@lc-words.com> References: <481C0E69.1020506@lc-words.com> Message-ID: On 5/3/08, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote: > Maybe in future it would be better to just disallow anyone to view a > member's list and give a clear indication whether email has or has not > been sent. For closed rosters, we can't do that. If we give people an indication as to whether or not a message was sent, they can use that information to fish for e-mail addresses that they can spam. > If the unsubscribe script cannot be exploited remotely, then > I do not see probing as a real threat (especially if additionally secured > by some captcha code or the like). But then I may not see all the > consequences of such solution. CAPTCHAs are not secure. The CAPTCHAs run by Gmail, Yahoo!, and Windows Live Hotmail are all cracked, and about 50% of their outgoing traffic is now spam from compromised or illegitimate accounts. We do not use CAPTCHAs today, I believe they were a horrible idea to begin with, and if I have anything to say about it then we will never use CAPTCHAs ever in the future. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From stephen at xemacs.org Sun May 4 01:19:05 2008 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 08:19:05 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] misleading description In-Reply-To: References: <481C0E69.1020506@lc-words.com> Message-ID: <87bq3nvuvq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> > On 5/3/08, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote: > > If the unsubscribe script cannot be exploited remotely, then > > I do not see probing as a real threat (especially if additionally secured > > by some captcha code or the like). Note that people seem to really want one-click unsubscription. CAPTCHA violates that design goal bigtime. Brad Knowles writes: > CAPTCHAs are not secure. CAPTCHA-meme, die! Die, die, die, I say! Die-die-die-die-die! Anyway, what Brad said being taken as given, what seems to be the case is that trivial CAPTCHAs like
Please type "CAP-ME" in the box: give all the protection that a CAPTCHA can give. This is somewhat effective, because if the 'bot doesn't expect that particular CAPTCHA, it will lose. And that's the best you can do. What I conclude is that CAPTCHAs are a reasonable way for some low-to- moderate-traffic sites to shift the burden of spam-fighting to their users and to other sites, but that if Mailman ever implemented one, that would immediately make Mailman sites a target for automated CAPTCHA breaking. So sites serious about using CAPTCHA to discourage spamming would need to implement their own, anyway. From dandrews at visi.com Sun May 4 06:38:08 2008 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 23:38:08 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] misleading description In-Reply-To: <87bq3nvuvq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <481C0E69.1020506@lc-words.com> <87bq3nvuvq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: I have 120 lists and thousands of blind and visually impaired users, and if I were to implement any kind of captcha I would have a riot on my hands!!! David Andrews At 06:19 PM 5/3/2008, you wrote: > > On 5/3/08, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote: > > > > If the unsubscribe script cannot be exploited > remotely, then > > > I do not see probing as a real threat (especially if > additionally secured > > > by some captcha code or the like). > >Note that people seem to really want one-click unsubscription. >CAPTCHA violates that design goal bigtime. > >Brad Knowles writes: > > > CAPTCHAs are not secure. > >CAPTCHA-meme, die! Die, die, die, I say! Die-die-die-die-die! > >Anyway, what Brad said being taken as given, what seems to be the case >is that trivial CAPTCHAs like > > >
>Please type "CAP-ME" in the box: > name="nobody_would_guess_im_a_captcha_cause_theres_no_image"> > > > >give all the protection that a CAPTCHA can give. This is somewhat >effective, because if the 'bot doesn't expect that particular CAPTCHA, >it will lose. And that's the best you can do. > >What I conclude is that CAPTCHAs are a reasonable way for some low-to- >moderate-traffic sites to shift the burden of spam-fighting to their >users and to other sites, but that if Mailman ever implemented one, >that would immediately make Mailman sites a target for automated >CAPTCHA breaking. So sites serious about using CAPTCHA to discourage >spamming would need to implement their own, anyway. > >------------------------------------------------------ >Mailman-Users mailing list >Mailman-Users at python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users >Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py >Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ >Unsubscribe: >http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dandrews%40visi.com > >Security Policy: >http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG. >Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: >5/2/2008 4:34 PM From brad at shub-internet.org Sun May 4 06:41:10 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 23:41:10 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] misleading description In-Reply-To: References: <481C0E69.1020506@lc-words.com> <87bq3nvuvq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: On 5/3/08, David Andrews wrote: > I have 120 lists and thousands of blind and visually impaired users, and if > I were to implement any kind of captcha I would have a riot on my hands!!! There are audio CAPTCHAs that were developed by major sites to help them deal with their responsibilities under ADA, but they're even more insecure than the visual ones. I stand by my earlier statements. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From admin at evasfamily.com Sat May 3 15:57:00 2008 From: admin at evasfamily.com (admin at evasfamily.com) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 08:57:00 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How many bounces Message-ID: <022e01c8ad25$904a6910$6801a8c0@1stPoint> I understand how to set bounce thresholds, but is there a place to see where indidivual users are at regarding bounces? Let's say I have the threshold set to 5 bounces. Obvioulsy mailman is keeping track of each users number of bounces that are "current". How can I see where each user is at? It seems it would make a nice column addition to the Membership Management table. Dave From johnny at kosela.com Sun May 4 22:33:30 2008 From: johnny at kosela.com (Johnny Kosela) Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 22:33:30 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] gmail to hotmail problem Message-ID: <087501c8ae26$1e0f5250$6600a8c0@JKITSHG> Using mailman version 2.1.9.cp2 i have a problem with hotmail user not receiveing emails sent from a gmail account. I am just testing the list right now and have only 5 members in the list. One gmail, one hotmail and 3 others.... And the list seems to work fine! Except.... When i send a message from the gmail account to the list. Not every time but a lot of the times the message does not show up at the hotmail account. Sending mail from and to the other accounts seems to work fine. And i have also tryed sending email directly from the gmail account to the hotmail account, and that works fine! Anyone have seen this problem before? Or know if there is anything to do about it? And it is NOT because the message ends up in the hotmail "Junk" folder (that would be an easy problem)! Johnny From cite at incertum.net Sun May 4 23:00:38 2008 From: cite at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=) Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 23:00:38 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How many bounces In-Reply-To: <022e01c8ad25$904a6910$6801a8c0@1stPoint> References: <022e01c8ad25$904a6910$6801a8c0@1stPoint> Message-ID: <20080504210038.GE3042@mail.incertum.net> * admin at evasfamily.com wrote: > I understand how to set bounce thresholds, but is there a place to > see where indidivual users are at regarding bounces? Let's say I > have the threshold set to 5 bounces. Obvioulsy mailman is keeping > track of each users number of bounces that are "current". How can I > see where each user is at? It seems it would make a nice column > addition to the Membership Management table. As for now, you can either parse bounce logs or just klick on an individual user in the Membership Management table. And yes, a feature to display users sorted by bounce, e.g., would come in handy. Ciao Stefan -- Stefan F?rster http://www.incertum.net/ Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9 From cite at incertum.net Sun May 4 23:10:15 2008 From: cite at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=) Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 23:10:15 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] gmail to hotmail problem In-Reply-To: <087501c8ae26$1e0f5250$6600a8c0@JKITSHG> References: <087501c8ae26$1e0f5250$6600a8c0@JKITSHG> Message-ID: <20080504211015.GG3042@mail.incertum.net> * Johnny Kosela wrote: > When i send a message from the gmail account to the list. Not every > time but a lot of the times the message does not show up at the > hotmail account. Sending mail from and to the other accounts seems > to work fine. [...] > Anyone have seen this problem before? Or know if there is anything > to do about it? hotmail.com is notoriously known for silently discarding mails. Try a search on the mailing lists for your favourite MTA (Postfix, Exim, whatever). Have a look at: http://postmaster.msn.com/Services.aspx#SenderSolutions Ciao Stefan -- Stefan F?rster http://www.incertum.net/ Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9 From brad at shub-internet.org Sun May 4 23:26:08 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 16:26:08 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How many bounces In-Reply-To: <022e01c8ad25$904a6910$6801a8c0@1stPoint> References: <022e01c8ad25$904a6910$6801a8c0@1stPoint> Message-ID: On 5/3/08, wrote: > I understand how to set bounce thresholds, but is there a place to see > where indidivual users are at regarding bounces? Look in the log files. Specifically, /usr/local/mailman/logs/bounce, or wherever your Mailman installation places the log files on the server. > Let's say I have the > threshold set to 5 bounces. Obvioulsy mailman is keeping track of each > users number of bounces that are "current". How can I see where each > user is at? It seems it would make a nice column addition to the > Membership Management table. So far as I know, there are no current plans to put this kind of information into the web interface, although I think that would be a good idea. Please fill out a change request via the page on SourceForge. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From barry at list.org Mon May 5 04:22:47 2008 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 22:22:47 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] misleading description In-Reply-To: References: <481C0E69.1020506@lc-words.com> <87bq3nvuvq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <1132F8AA-F0E7-462D-A814-FCA7A5A0D9EC@list.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On May 4, 2008, at 12:38 AM, David Andrews wrote: > I have 120 lists and thousands of blind and visually impaired users, > and if I were to implement any kind of captcha I would have a riot > on my hands!!! I'm certainly not a fan of captchas either, and I get less so with every passing year. ;) - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkgeb3cACgkQ2YZpQepbvXE9VACgqYM4POzWB+1V52Dba/6NlMQy ckEAnRYgoWp9uummyczV/XmPu1PAk6OA =nZr8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mark at msapiro.net Mon May 5 06:01:21 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 21:01:21 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How many bounces In-Reply-To: <022e01c8ad25$904a6910$6801a8c0@1stPoint> Message-ID: admin at evasfamily.com wrote >Obvioulsy mailman is keeping track of each users number of bounces that are "current". How can I see where each user is at? It seems it would make a nice column addition to the Membership Management table. Others have pointed out Mailman's bounce log or just clicking the members email in the Membership List. If you have shell access, see the withlist script at (mirrored at and ). -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com Mon May 5 06:25:02 2008 From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (billc) Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 23:25:02 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Addresses Message-ID: I've got a couple questions about addresses: 1) I'm running virtual hosts w/apache. On the mailman/listinfo pages, the address mailman at domain2.com is given, though the server (and the only mailman@ address that has been set up so far) is @mydomain.com. Do I need to set up mailman@ addresses for all the other domains that have lists? Can I forward them to mailman at mydomain.com, and would that require that I then set up the mailman list to also accept mail for mailman at domain2.com, mailman at domain3.com, etc? Is there a better way? 2) Are both listname-join and listname-subscribe needed? Is there a way I can alias one to the other and cut down on the number of addresses required? If not, can this be something to work into the wishlist? It seems mighty redundant, and it's annoying when you're setting up a bunch of lists. Similar with listname-leave and listname-unsubscribe. Thanks. -- Bill Christensen billc at greenbuilder.com Green Building Professionals Directory: Sustainable Building Calendar: Green Real Estate: Straw Bale Registry: Books/videos/software: From mark at msapiro.net Mon May 5 07:17:52 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 22:17:52 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Addresses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: billc wrote: > >1) I'm running virtual hosts w/apache. On the mailman/listinfo >pages, the address mailman at domain2.com is given, though the server >(and the only mailman@ address that has been set up so far) is >@mydomain.com. Do I need to set up mailman@ addresses for all the >other domains that have lists? Can I forward them to >mailman at mydomain.com, and would that require that I then set up the >mailman list to also accept mail for mailman at domain2.com, >mailman at domain3.com, etc? Is there a better way? First, in 'standard' Mailman 2.1.x there can be only one site (mailman) list because list names have to be unique regardless of domain. In a mailman virtual hosting environment, the listinfo and admin overview pages give the address of the site list with a domain equal the the email host that corresponds to the host name in the url that invoked the page. So, yes, mail to the mailman list at any of your virtual domains should be deliverable. How you actually do this depends on your MTA and where you want that mail to go. In general, you don't need to worry about the various -request, -confirm, etc. addresses in the virtual domains; only the 'mailman' address itself. Whether you choose to direct it to your mailman list or to an individual or group, or a different individual or group or list per domain is up to you. >2) Are both listname-join and listname-subscribe needed? Is there a >way I can alias one to the other and cut down on the number of >addresses required? If not, can this be something to work into the >wishlist? It seems mighty redundant, and it's annoying when you're >setting up a bunch of lists. Similar with listname-leave and >listname-unsubscribe. You don't have to have both -join and -subscribe or really either one if you don't want to (likewise -leave and -unsubscribe). The two names are basically synonyms. If you don't want your MTA to know about -join, then just don't tell it. The only problem is if some potential subscriber "knows" that Mailman lists have a -join address and tries to use it, and it doesn't work. As far as Mailman is concerned the only addresses that have to work are the -owner address because mailman sends some owner notices to that address and the -bounces address if you're doing automated bounce processing. It's also nice if the -confirm address works because replies to confirmations may go there. Replies to confirmations may also go to -request depending on various settings. -admin is a deprecated synonym for -bounces and is definitely not needed, and -join, -subscribe, -leave and -unsubscribe are not needed if you want to force everyone to use the web interface. Of course, Postfix can be integrated with Mailman so aliases are maintained automatically, and Exim can be set up to interface programmatically without aliases, and sendmail aliases can be automated as discussed at although this FAQ doesn't discuss virtual maps, but they too can be handled. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From johannes.grimm at fh-rosenheim.de Mon May 5 10:36:24 2008 From: johannes.grimm at fh-rosenheim.de (Johannes Grimm) Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 10:36:24 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newlist generates no output Message-ID: <481EC708.3070006@fh-rosenheim.de> Hi, when i create a newlist with the "newlist" command in the mailman/bin directory from shell, there is no output generated to copy and paste for postfix aliases file. What needs to be done to let the output show up again? greets johannes From johnny at kosela.com Mon May 5 15:58:20 2008 From: johnny at kosela.com (Johnny Kosela) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 15:58:20 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] gmail to hotmail problem References: <087501c8ae26$1e0f5250$6600a8c0@JKITSHG> <20080504211015.GG3042@mail.incertum.net> Message-ID: <09f301c8aeb8$15de6110$6600a8c0@JKITSHG> Thank you for the info, Stefan! I can realy see what i can do about the problem myself. So i guess i just have to wait using the mailing list until every body have stopped using hotmail ;-) Johnny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan F?rster" To: Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail to hotmail problem >* Johnny Kosela wrote: >> When i send a message from the gmail account to the list. Not every >> time but a lot of the times the message does not show up at the >> hotmail account. Sending mail from and to the other accounts seems >> to work fine. > [...] >> Anyone have seen this problem before? Or know if there is anything >> to do about it? > > hotmail.com is notoriously known for silently discarding mails. Try a > search on the mailing lists for your favourite MTA (Postfix, Exim, > whatever). > > Have a look at: > > http://postmaster.msn.com/Services.aspx#SenderSolutions > > > Ciao > Stefan > -- > Stefan F?rster http://www.incertum.net/ Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9 > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list > Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/johnny%40kosela.com > > Security Policy: > http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp From mark at msapiro.net Mon May 5 18:28:08 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 09:28:08 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newlist generates no output In-Reply-To: <481EC708.3070006@fh-rosenheim.de> Message-ID: Johannes Grimm wrote: > >when i create a newlist with the "newlist" command in the mailman/bin >directory from shell, >there is no output generated to copy and paste for postfix aliases file. >What needs to be done to let the output show up again? My guess is you have either MTA= 'Postfix' or MTA = None in mm_cfg.py. The former is for Mailman/Postfix integration and causes Mailman to write the aliases to Mailman's data/aliases file and run postalias to update data/aliases.db which should be referenced in Postfix's alias_maps so it's all automagic . The latter is for MTAs like Exim that don't need aliases. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From gilmore.126 at osu.edu Mon May 5 18:54:54 2008 From: gilmore.126 at osu.edu (Melinda Gilmore) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 12:54:54 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List of owners and subscribers Message-ID: <010b01c8aed0$bdd40b00$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu> Has anyone out there put together and scripts that might extract out owners and subscribers to a list. Where you could see all the list and all their subscribers in one place. We have a group of list here that not everyone is on, but they are closely related to the lists, and someone had put together just an excel spreadsheet with links to see who was on the list. This is a very cumbersome process. The need for this type of a list is used several ways, as in if a user is on one list they may not be put on a new list so they look at this list. Some users need to look up a person to see if they will receive the information. Just somehting that user have gotten used to. When I switch them over to new mailman I do not want to have to put something like this together, Was wondering if there is something close I can give them in replacement. Hope this makes sense. Melinda Gilmore Systems Engineer The Ohio State University Enterprise Messaging/OIT 614-292-4953 From cite at incertum.net Mon May 5 19:05:49 2008 From: cite at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 19:05:49 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List of owners and subscribers In-Reply-To: <010b01c8aed0$bdd40b00$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu> References: <010b01c8aed0$bdd40b00$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu> Message-ID: <20080505170548.GB5541@mail.incertum.net> * Melinda Gilmore wrote: > Has anyone out there put together and scripts that might extract out owners > and subscribers to a list. Where you could see all the list and all their > subscribers in one place. My English is not that good and I'm not really sure if I understand what you actually want to achieve, but what about something like: list_lists | awk '(NR > 1){print $1}' | while read line; do echo "List: $line" list_members -f "$line" done This assumes you (1) have shell access to the box hosting Mailman and (2) that list_lists and list_members are in your $PATH. Cheers Stefan From cite at incertum.net Mon May 5 19:08:12 2008 From: cite at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 19:08:12 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List of owners and subscribers In-Reply-To: <20080505170548.GB5541@mail.incertum.net> References: <010b01c8aed0$bdd40b00$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu> <20080505170548.GB5541@mail.incertum.net> Message-ID: <20080505170812.GC5541@mail.incertum.net> Throw in a * Stefan F?rster wrote: > list_lists | awk '(NR > 1){print $1}' | while read line; do > echo "List: $line" list_admins "$line" > list_members -f "$line" > done exactly there ;) And ofc, this now assumes that list_admins is in your $PATH, too. Cheers Stefan From mark at msapiro.net Mon May 5 19:56:21 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 10:56:21 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List of owners and subscribers In-Reply-To: <010b01c8aed0$bdd40b00$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu> Message-ID: Melinda Gilmore wrote: >Has anyone out there put together and scripts that might extract out owners >and subscribers to a list. Where you could see all the list and all their >subscribers in one place. We have a group of list here that not everyone >is on, but they are closely related to the lists, and someone had put >together just an excel spreadsheet with links to see who was on the list. >This is a very cumbersome process. The need for this type of a list is used >several ways, as in if a user is on one list they may not be put on a new >list so they look at this list. Some users need to look up a person to see >if they will receive the information. Just somehting that user have gotten >used to. When I switch them over to new mailman I do not want to have to >put something like this together, Was wondering if there is something close >I can give them in replacement. Hope this makes sense. How about bin/find_member --owners . (note the '.' at the end which is a regexp that matches anything). This is not exactly what you're asking for because it gives lists by member instead of members by list. If you want results by list, something allong the lines of #!/bin/sh for list in `bin/list_lists --bare` ; do echo $list ------------------------- echo ' Owners and moderators' bin/list_owners -m $list echo -------------------- echo ' Members' bin/list_members --fullnames $list echo echo done should do it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From brad at shub-internet.org Mon May 5 20:20:59 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 13:20:59 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List of owners and subscribers In-Reply-To: <010b01c8aed0$bdd40b00$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu> References: <010b01c8aed0$bdd40b00$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu> Message-ID: <481F500B.3070301@shub-internet.org> Melinda Gilmore wrote: > Has anyone out there put together and scripts that might extract out owners > and subscribers to a list. You can get all this information from the list rosters themselves. Can you explain what purpose you're trying to achieve and how the existing list roster mechanism does not meet your needs? -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From honneus at cisco.com Mon May 5 23:36:16 2008 From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus)) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 17:36:16 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Join List Problem Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655D15@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Hi, I have my mailman set up and configured on my sendmail server as per the instructions in the Mailman Installation Manual. I was able to create a list called "test" using the newlist command line option, and got a confirmation email at the list owner's address. I have defined the aliases for test in my mailman.aliases file in /etc, separate from my aliases declarations. When I send an email to test-join at my.domain.com, I get the following returned email error: ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Mail Delivery Subsystem To: myAddress at yahoo.com Sent: Monday, May 5, 2008 4:55:07 PM Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details The original message was received at Mon, 5 May 2008 16:55:07 -0400 from myEmailServer.domain.com [111.111.111.111] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join test" (reason: 1) (expanded from: >) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- join script, list not found: test 554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1 Reporting-MTA: dns; my.domain.com Received-From-MTA: DNS; myEmailServer.domain.com Arrival-Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 16:55:07 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; test-join at my.domain.com X-Actual-Recipient: X-Unix; |/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join test Action: failed Status: 5.0.0 Diagnostic-Code: X-Unix; 1 Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 16:55:07 -0400 I don't understand why it says it can't find the "test" list as my apache server finds it just fine via the web browser, and I see the "test" appear in the "lists" folder underneath /usr/local/mailman. Anyone encounter this issue before? Thanks, Bill From cyndi at tikvah.com Tue May 6 00:07:36 2008 From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 15:07:36 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Easier to ban members Message-ID: <200805052207.m45M7aKj005614@a.mail.sonic.net> I'm putting this here first for feedback. If you want me to submit it anywhere, let me know. I am running version 2.1.9. I have no control over which version it is. If this has been updated, great. I have run into the problem of it being difficult to ban someone. If the person is not a subscriber and they try to post a message (all non-subscribers are set to moderation unless I explicitly allow them), all I have to do is click on "ban" as I reject or discard their message. But what if it's a subscriber? In the latest case, I had a troublemaker on my main list who repeatedly violated list rules and I wanted to remove and ban her. Her messages were already on moderation but there is no "ban" box for subscribers there. So I had to copy her email address and go to Privacy options: Subscription rules and paste her address into the box. Then I had to go to the membership area and unsub her. Just a few minutes ago, I was looking at the membership list for a spin-off list I run and noticed she was also subscribed there. There is no way to ban someone from the membership list, only unsub. And if you open up their subscription details, there is also no ban function there. So, I had to cut and paste back at the sub rules again and then go back to membership and unsub her. I don't think banning should be a simple check off box, because there are so many boxes it is easy to be confused (since you can't see the headers as you scroll down) but could there be a link to it? And one where banning also unsubs (can't imagine any situtation where a listowner would want to ban someone but leave them subscribed)? Perhaps an admin-only section (shows only when you're logged in as the listowner) when you open up a member's subscription info page. Something where I can kick-ban in a single operation. It would be nice to be able to do this from the moderation panel too, just like you can with non-subscribers. With the popularity of spammers who like to subscribe to a list then spam away, it is really helpful to make kick-banning simple. And also for us listowners who run lists where we get "spies" and moles (many subscribers have lawsuits against former or current employers due to work injuries and stuff like that). Thanks, Cyndi From ecsd at transpacific.net Mon May 5 23:50:55 2008 From: ecsd at transpacific.net (ecsd) Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 14:50:55 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Running into a coding bug in 2.1.10 and 2.1.10rc1 Message-ID: <481F813F.6090207@transpacific.net> I've tried both 2.1.10rc1 and 2.1.10, running with Python 2.5 on FreeBSD 6.2. I'm getting PYTHON errors that suggest code mismatch or something, I installed 2.1.10rc1 first and then brought over lists and archives from a different host running 2.1.5. I did not know what to do to upgrade post-install, then I found a note about using "withlist" with "fix_url", but that fails and upon installing the earlier version, 2.1.10, telling "update" to FORCE updates, it crashed with complaint about "No module named e", as shown below: mail[684] # ./list_lists Traceback (most recent call last): File "./list_lists", line 122, in main() File "./list_lists", line 94, in main mlist = MailList.MailList(n, lock=0) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__ self.Load() File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 632, in Load dict, e = self.__load(file) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 605, in __load dict = loadfunc(fp) ImportError: No module named e I also get this: mail[691] # ./list_members announce > xx Traceback (most recent call last): File "./list_members", line 286, in main() File "./list_members", line 230, in main mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=False) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__ self.Load() File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 632, in Load dict, e = self.__load(file) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 605, in __load dict = loadfunc(fp) AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'append' =========================================================================== How to fix this? Thanks. From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 6 01:01:21 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 16:01:21 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Join List Problem In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655D15@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Message-ID: Bill Honneus > >When I send an email to test-join at my.domain.com, >I get the following returned email error: > >----- Forwarded Message ---- >From: Mail Delivery Subsystem >To: myAddress at yahoo.com >Sent: Monday, May 5, 2008 4:55:07 PM >Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details > >The original message was received at Mon, 5 May 2008 16:55:07 -0400 >from myEmailServer.domain.com > [111.111.111.111] > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- >"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join test" > (reason: 1) > (expanded from: >) > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >join script, list not found: test The first question is how many scripts/ directories you have? Judjing from the path to the wrapper, there should be a /usr/local/mailman/scripts/ and that's it. Check that this is the case. Also check that you have /usr/local/mailman/lists/test/ and that it contains a config.pck file. Also look at /usr/local/mailman/scripts/paths.py. It should have prefix = '/usr/local/mailman' >I don't understand why it says it can't find the "test" list as my >apache server finds it just fine via the web browser, and I see the >"test" appear in the "lists" folder underneath /usr/local/mailman. Sendmail is invoking the wrapper at /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman, and it is invoking some scripts/join script, but the paths.py in that scripts/ directory doesn't have the appropriate prefix. Since the web interface works and normally invokes the scripts/driver script from the same scripts/ directory, I have to think that the mail wrapper was compiled with a different 'prefix' and is pointing at a different scripts/ directory. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 6 01:18:17 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 16:18:17 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Running into a coding bug in 2.1.10 and 2.1.10rc1 In-Reply-To: <481F813F.6090207@transpacific.net> Message-ID: ecsd wrote: >I've tried both 2.1.10rc1 and 2.1.10, running with Python 2.5 on FreeBSD 6.2. > >I'm getting PYTHON errors that suggest code mismatch or something, I installed >2.1.10rc1 first and then brought over lists and archives from a different host >running 2.1.5. I did not know what to do to upgrade post-install, then I found >a note about using "withlist" with "fix_url", but that fails and upon installing >the earlier version, 2.1.10, telling "update" to FORCE updates, it crashed >with complaint about "No module named e", as shown below: 2.1.10 should be more recent than 2.1.10rc1. If you have either one installed, you shouldn't need to run bin/update. That is only for upgrading an older installation which I assume you aren't doing. How did you 'bring over' the 2.1.5 lists? What you 'should' do (ignoring archives for the moment) is move only the lists/listname/config.pck for each list. Definitely do not move any config.db* files as they are from pre 2.1.x and are really out of date. It is best if you deal with held messages and pending requests before moving so you don't need to move lists/listname/pending.pck or lists/listname/requests.pck. Then if the host names have changed, you need to run fix_url. If this isn't what you did, remove everything from the lists/listname directories for the moved lists and move only the config.pck files and see if that helps. See . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From honneus at cisco.com Tue May 6 04:05:10 2008 From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus)) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 22:05:10 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Join List Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655DAB@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> >When I send an email to test-join at my.domain.com, I get the following >returned email error: > >----- Forwarded Message ---- >From: Mail Delivery Subsystem >To: myAddress at yahoo.com >Sent: Monday, May 5, 2008 4:55:07 PM >Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details > >The original message was received at Mon, 5 May 2008 16:55:07 -0400 >from myEmailServer.domain.com > [111.111.111.111] > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- >"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join test" > (reason: 1) > (expanded from: >) > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- join script, list not >found: test The first question is how many scripts/ directories you have? Judjing from the path to the wrapper, there should be a /usr/local/mailman/scripts/ and that's it. Check that this is the case. [BillH] I have /usr/local/mailman/scripts, and there is also a /usr/lib/mailman/scripts which I think was left over from an old installation. Also check that you have /usr/local/mailman/lists/test/ and that it contains a config.pck file. [BillH] I have this. Also look at /usr/local/mailman/scripts/paths.py. It should have prefix = '/usr/local/mailman' [BillH] I have this as well. >I don't understand why it says it can't find the "test" list as my >apache server finds it just fine via the web browser, and I see the >"test" appear in the "lists" folder underneath /usr/local/mailman. Sendmail is invoking the wrapper at /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman, and it is invoking some scripts/join script, but the paths.py in that scripts/ directory doesn't have the appropriate prefix. [BillH] Since I ran the ./configure and make install on the new installation, I can't think why it might be going to the old installation's scripts folder, especially since the prefix in the paths.py is correct. Since the web interface works and normally invokes the scripts/driver script from the same scripts/ directory, I have to think that the mail wrapper was compiled with a different 'prefix' and is pointing at a different scripts/ directory. [BillH] I don't think that this is the case. See my above comment. Thanks, Bill From honneus at cisco.com Tue May 6 04:05:10 2008 From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus)) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 22:05:10 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Create list error via Web Interface Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655DAC@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Hi, I have the Mailman web interface up and running, and I'm getting an error when I try to create a list using the create page. I'm going to this URL to create a new list, where 111.111.111.111 is the private IP address on our LAN segment: http://111.111.111.111/mailman/create I'm using my site password to try and submit the form. However, when I click "Create List", I get the following error: Error: Unknown virtual host: 111.111.111.111 Any ideas what might be going wrong? Thanks! Bill From honneus at cisco.com Tue May 6 04:03:09 2008 From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus)) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 22:03:09 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Default URL Host Issue Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655DAD@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Hi, I am having two problems with my Mailman web server. First, I seem to be having a problem with setting my DEFAULT_URL_HOST. When I first configured my mm_cfg.py, I had both my DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and my DEFAULT_URL_HOST set to my.domain.com. But I needed to change the URL to my-hostname.domain.com because I had a conflict with the my.domain.com redirecting me to another web server in our topology. So I made the change to my mm_cfg.py file as appears below and I re-ran the controller "bin/mailmanctl restart". However, when I navigate to the http://my-hostname.domain.com/mailman/admin, I get a page not found. The second problem is if I replace the url manually in the browser with the host IP, so I have http://111.111.111.111/mailman/admin, then I can get the admin page to come up, but then some of the links in the child pages end up navigating to http://my.domain.com/mailman/..../, instead of the host IP URL. The relevant section in my mm_cfg.py file is below: ################################################## # Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line. IMAGE_LOGOS = '/images/' MTA='Postfix' POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/bin/sudo /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases' POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [] DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = my.domain.com' DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'my-hostname.domain.com' VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) Please help me figure out what's wrong. Thanks much! Bill From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 6 04:15:54 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 19:15:54 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Join List Problem In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655DAB@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Message-ID: Bill Honneus wrote: > > >Since the web interface works and normally invokes the scripts/driver >script from the same scripts/ directory, I have to think that the mail >wrapper was compiled with a different 'prefix' and is pointing at a >different scripts/ directory. > >[BillH] I don't think that this is the case. See my above comment. Well, you could know for sure if you remove, rename or make unreadable the old /var/lib/mailman tree. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 6 04:24:00 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 19:24:00 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Create list error via Web Interface In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655DAC@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Message-ID: Bill Honneus wrote: > >I have the Mailman web interface up and running, and I'm getting an >error when I try to create a list using the create page. > >I'm going to this URL to create a new list, where 111.111.111.111 is the >private IP address on our LAN segment: > >http://111.111.111.111/mailman/create > > > I'm using my site password to try and submit the form. However, when I >click "Create List", I get the following error: > > >Error: Unknown virtual host: 111.111.111.111 You have the default VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW = Yes setting and 111.111.111.111 is not a url host in an add_virtualhost() directive in your configuration. If you are not using virtual domains and you want all your lists to be in the DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST domains, set VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW = No in mm_cfg.py. Otherwise, go to the create page from the domain you want the list to be in, and be sure that it is a configured virtual host. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 6 04:38:51 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 19:38:51 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Default URL Host Issue In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655DAD@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Message-ID: Bill Honneus wrote: > >I am having two problems with my Mailman web server. > >First, I seem to be having a problem with setting my DEFAULT_URL_HOST. >When I first configured my mm_cfg.py, I had both my DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST >and my DEFAULT_URL_HOST set to my.domain.com. But I needed to change >the URL to my-hostname.domain.com because I had a conflict with the >my.domain.com redirecting me to another web server in our topology. So >I made the change to my mm_cfg.py file as appears below and I re-ran the >controller "bin/mailmanctl restart". However, when I navigate to the >http://my-hostname.domain.com/mailman/admin, I get a page not found. That has to be addressed in the web server configuration by putting the mailman ScriptAlias (assuming apache) in a place where it applies globally or to the my-hostname.domain.com domain. >The second problem is if I replace the url manually in the browser with >the host IP, so I have http://111.111.111.111/mailman/admin, then I can >get the admin page to come up, but then some of the links in the child >pages end up navigating to http://my.domain.com/mailman/..../, instead >of the host IP URL. The links will point to the host name that's configured in the hidden web_page_url attribute that was configured for the list when you created it. >The relevant section in my mm_cfg.py file is below: > >################################################## ># Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line. > >IMAGE_LOGOS = '/images/' >MTA='Postfix' >POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/bin/sudo /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases' >POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [] >DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = my.domain.com' You're missing the initial quote above. I assume that's a typo, or nothing would work. >DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'my-hostname.domain.com' >VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() >add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) You need to fix your web server config so 'my-hostname.domain.com' works. Then you need to run bin/withlist -r fix_url -a which will set the host_name and web_page_url attributes of each list to my.domain.com and http://my-hostname.domain.com/mailman/ respectively. Then you probably want to add VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off (or No) to mm_cfg.py so that all your new lists will be created in the default domains. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From honneus at cisco.com Tue May 6 06:03:42 2008 From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus)) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 00:03:42 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Default URL Host Issue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655DCB@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 10:39 PM To: Bill Honneus (honneus); mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Default URL Host Issue Bill Honneus wrote: > >I am having two problems with my Mailman web server. > >First, I seem to be having a problem with setting my DEFAULT_URL_HOST. >When I first configured my mm_cfg.py, I had both my DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST >and my DEFAULT_URL_HOST set to my.domain.com. But I needed to change >the URL to my-hostname.domain.com because I had a conflict with the >my.domain.com redirecting me to another web server in our topology. So >I made the change to my mm_cfg.py file as appears below and I re-ran >the controller "bin/mailmanctl restart". However, when I navigate to >the http://my-hostname.domain.com/mailman/admin, I get a page not found. That has to be addressed in the web server configuration by putting the mailman ScriptAlias (assuming apache) in a place where it applies globally or to the my-hostname.domain.com domain. [BillH] Yes, I have the following ScriptAliases defined in my httpd.conf: ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ "/usr/local/apache2/cgi-bin/" ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/" What else do I need? >The second problem is if I replace the url manually in the browser with >the host IP, so I have http://111.111.111.111/mailman/admin, then I can >get the admin page to come up, but then some of the links in the child >pages end up navigating to http://my.domain.com/mailman/..../, instead >of the host IP URL. The links will point to the host name that's configured in the hidden web_page_url attribute that was configured for the list when you created it. >The relevant section in my mm_cfg.py file is below: > >################################################## ># Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line. > >IMAGE_LOGOS = '/images/' >MTA='Postfix' >POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/bin/sudo /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases' >POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [] >DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = my.domain.com' You're missing the initial quote above. I assume that's a typo, or nothing would work. [BillH] yes, that's a typo. Sorry for that! In my mm_cfg.py file, it is correct. >DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'my-hostname.domain.com' >VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() >add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) You need to fix your web server config so 'my-hostname.domain.com' works. Then you need to run bin/withlist -r fix_url -a which will set the host_name and web_page_url attributes of each list to my.domain.com and http://my-hostname.domain.com/mailman/ respectively. Then you probably want to add VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off (or No) to mm_cfg.py so that all your new lists will be created in the default domains. [BillH] Thanks. I'll try this when I get that other piece of information from you regarding the ScriptAlias (earlier in this reply thread). Thanks, Bill From honneus at cisco.com Tue May 6 06:04:25 2008 From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus)) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 00:04:25 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Join List Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655DCC@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Bill Honneus wrote: > > >Since the web interface works and normally invokes the scripts/driver >script from the same scripts/ directory, I have to think that the mail >wrapper was compiled with a different 'prefix' and is pointing at a >different scripts/ directory. > >[BillH] I don't think that this is the case. See my above comment. Well, you could know for sure if you remove, rename or make unreadable the old /var/lib/mailman tree. [BillH] I have tried renaming the old directory. We'll see if it helps! Thanks, Bill From honneus at cisco.com Tue May 6 06:05:29 2008 From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus)) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 00:05:29 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Create list error via Web Interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655DCA@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Hi Mark, Actually, I do already have VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW = No set in my Defaults.py. This must have come down from the default installation settings or it got set that way during the make install. Bill -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 10:24 PM To: Bill Honneus (honneus); mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Create list error via Web Interface Bill Honneus wrote: > >I have the Mailman web interface up and running, and I'm getting an >error when I try to create a list using the create page. > >I'm going to this URL to create a new list, where 111.111.111.111 is >the private IP address on our LAN segment: > >http://111.111.111.111/mailman/create > > > I'm using my site password to try and submit the form. However, when I >click "Create List", I get the following error: > > >Error: Unknown virtual host: 111.111.111.111 You have the default VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW = Yes setting and 111.111.111.111 is not a url host in an add_virtualhost() directive in your configuration. If you are not using virtual domains and you want all your lists to be in the DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST domains, set VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW = No in mm_cfg.py. Otherwise, go to the create page from the domain you want the list to be in, and be sure that it is a configured virtual host. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 6 06:17:13 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 21:17:13 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Create list error via Web Interface In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655DCA@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Message-ID: Bill Honneus wrote: > >Actually, I do already have VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW = No set in my >Defaults.py. This must have come down from the default installation >settings or it got set that way during the make install. My mistake. It's VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW, not VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW. The Defaults.py.in that we ship has VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = On nothing in configure or make changes that. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 6 06:27:30 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 21:27:30 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Default URL Host Issue In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655DCB@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Message-ID: Bill Honneus wrote: > >[BillH] Yes, I have the following ScriptAliases defined in my >httpd.conf: > >ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ "/usr/local/apache2/cgi-bin/" >ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/" It's not what else you need. You have the right ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/" directive. It is apparently not in a place where it applies to the my-hostname.domain.com host. Is it inside a VirtualHost or NameVirtualHost block? If so, it needs also to be in the VirtualHost or NameVirtualHost block that applies to the my-hostname.domain.com host. If that's not the answer, then there is some other configuration redirect or rewrite involving my-hostname.domain.com that is preventing the ScriptAlias /mailman/ from matching. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From honneus at cisco.com Tue May 6 15:59:53 2008 From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus)) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 09:59:53 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Default URL Host Issue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655E9B@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 12:28 AM To: Bill Honneus (honneus); mailman-users at python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Default URL Host Issue Bill Honneus wrote: > >[BillH] Yes, I have the following ScriptAliases defined in my >httpd.conf: > >ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ "/usr/local/apache2/cgi-bin/" >ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/" It's not what else you need. You have the right ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/" directive. It is apparently not in a place where it applies to the my-hostname.domain.com host. Is it inside a VirtualHost or NameVirtualHost block? If so, it needs also to be in the VirtualHost or NameVirtualHost block that applies to the my-hostname.domain.com host. If that's not the answer, then there is some other configuration redirect or rewrite involving my-hostname.domain.com that is preventing the ScriptAlias /mailman/ from matching. [BillH] I checked, and the ScriptAlias is in a directive called in my httpd.conf. I'm not sure what you mean by VirtualHost or NameVirtualHost blocks as I didn't see anything resembling that in the httpd.conf in my /usr/local/apache2/conf folder. Bill From honneus at cisco.com Tue May 6 15:58:25 2008 From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus)) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 09:58:25 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Create list error via Web Interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655E9C@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Hi Mark, Ok, this seems to have gotten me past the list create error. I was able to create another test list through the web interface. So now I just need to resolve the following: 1. Fix the apache web server so that it can resolve my-hostname.domain.com. 2. Fix my mailman and other prior test list so that the web page links map to my-hostname.domain.com instead of my.domain.com (see my "Default URL Host" thread). Thanks, Bill -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 12:17 AM To: Bill Honneus (honneus); mailman-users at python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Create list error via Web Interface Bill Honneus wrote: > >Actually, I do already have VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW = No set in my >Defaults.py. This must have come down from the default installation >settings or it got set that way during the make install. My mistake. It's VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW, not VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW. The Defaults.py.in that we ship has VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = On nothing in configure or make changes that. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From honneus at cisco.com Tue May 6 16:57:47 2008 From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus)) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:57:47 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Join List Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655F02@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Hi Mark, I renamed the old mailman folder and restarted both mailman and apache. I retried emailing the list using my test-join alias and now got the following error: From: Mail Delivery Subsystem To: myAddress at yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2008 10:45:53 AM Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details The original message was received at Tue, 6 May 2008 10:45:53 -0400 from my.hostname.domain.com [111.111.111.111] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join test" (reason: Service unavailable) (expanded from: ) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- smrsh: "mailman" not available for sendmail programs (stat failed) 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable Reporting-MTA: dns; my.domain.com Received-From-MTA: DNS; my.hostname.domain.com Arrival-Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:45:53 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; test-join at my.domain.com X-Actual-Recipient: X-Unix; |/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join test Action: failed Status: 5.5.0 Diagnostic-Code: X-Unix; 69 Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:45:53 -0400 I have verfied that the mailman service is running on my host, so I don't understand why I'm getting this error. Thanks, Bill -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 10:16 PM To: Bill Honneus (honneus); Mark Sapiro; mailman-users at python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Join List Problem Bill Honneus wrote: > > >Since the web interface works and normally invokes the scripts/driver >script from the same scripts/ directory, I have to think that the mail >wrapper was compiled with a different 'prefix' and is pointing at a >different scripts/ directory. > >[BillH] I don't think that this is the case. See my above comment. Well, you could know for sure if you remove, rename or make unreadable the old /var/lib/mailman tree. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 6 17:26:20 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 08:26:20 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Join List Problem In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8655F02@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Message-ID: Bill Honneus wrote: > >I renamed the old mailman folder and restarted both mailman and apache. >I retried emailing the list using my test-join alias and now got the >following error: > >From: Mail Delivery Subsystem >To: myAddress at yahoo.com >Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2008 10:45:53 AM >Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details > >The original message was received at Tue, 6 May 2008 10:45:53 -0400 >from my.hostname.domain.com [111.111.111.111] > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- >"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join test" > (reason: Service unavailable) > (expanded from: ) > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >smrsh: "mailman" not available for sendmail programs (stat failed) >554 5.0.0 Service unavailable >Reporting-MTA: dns; my.domain.com >Received-From-MTA: DNS; my.hostname.domain.com >Arrival-Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:45:53 -0400 Now we're getting somewhere. You have smrsh enabled in sendmail and it is not allowed to execute the /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman wrapper. It probably was allowed to execute the old one which is why you didn't see this before. I.e. you probably have a symlink from mailman to /var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman is the smrsh directory which needs to be changed (or added if not there) to go to /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman. See and/or sec 3 of . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From honneus at cisco.com Tue May 6 19:36:44 2008 From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus)) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 13:36:44 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Join List Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8656002@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Hi Mark, We're getting closer. I changed the symbolic link in /etc/smrsh to the following: [root at 157226-mail smrsh]# ls -l total 0 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 31 May 6 13:18 mailman -> /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman Now I am getting the following error: ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Mail Delivery Subsystem To: myAddress at yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2008 1:11:04 PM Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details The original message was received at Tue, 6 May 2008 13:11:04 -0400 from my-hostname.domain.com [111.111.111.111] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join test" (reason: 2) (expanded from: ) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group "mail". Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "mailman", or re-run configure, providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mail'. 554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 2 Reporting-MTA: dns; my.domain.com Received-From-MTA: DNS; my-hostname.domain.com Arrival-Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 13:11:04 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; test-join at my.domain.com X-Actual-Recipient: X-Unix; |/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join test Action: failed Status: 5.0.0 Diagnostic-Code: X-Unix; 2 Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 13:11:04 -0400 I tried to change the ownership of the symbolic link to mailman, but that didn't seem to take: [root at 157226-mail smrsh]# chown :mailman mailman [root at 157226-mail smrsh]# ls -l total 0 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 31 May 6 13:18 mailman -> /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman [root at 157226-mail smrsh]# Thanks, Bill -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:26 AM To: Bill Honneus (honneus); mailman-users at python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Join List Problem Bill Honneus wrote: > >I renamed the old mailman folder and restarted both mailman and apache. >I retried emailing the list using my test-join alias and now got the >following error: > >From: Mail Delivery Subsystem >To: myAddress at yahoo.com >Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2008 10:45:53 AM >Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details > >The original message was received at Tue, 6 May 2008 10:45:53 -0400 >from my.hostname.domain.com [111.111.111.111] > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- >"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join test" > (reason: Service unavailable) > (expanded from: ) > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >smrsh: "mailman" not available for sendmail programs (stat failed) >554 5.0.0 Service unavailable >Reporting-MTA: dns; my.domain.com >Received-From-MTA: DNS; my.hostname.domain.com >Arrival-Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:45:53 -0400 Now we're getting somewhere. You have smrsh enabled in sendmail and it is not allowed to execute the /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman wrapper. It probably was allowed to execute the old one which is why you didn't see this before. I.e. you probably have a symlink from mailman to /var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman is the smrsh directory which needs to be changed (or added if not there) to go to /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman. See and/or sec 3 of . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 6 21:07:33 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 12:07:33 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Join List Problem In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8656002@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Message-ID: Bill Honneus wrote: > >Now I am getting the following error: > >----- Forwarded Message ---- >From: Mail Delivery Subsystem >To: myAddress at yahoo.com >Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2008 1:11:04 PM >Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details > >The original message was received at Tue, 6 May 2008 13:11:04 -0400 >from my-hostname.domain.com [111.111.111.111] > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- >"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join test" > (reason: 2) > (expanded from: ) > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail >wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but >the system's mail server executed the mail script as >group "mail". Try tweaking the mail server to run the >script as group "mailman", or re-run configure, >providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mail'. >554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 2 >Reporting-MTA: dns; my.domain.com >Received-From-MTA: DNS; my-hostname.domain.com >Arrival-Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 13:11:04 -0400 >I tried to change the ownership of the symbolic link to mailman, but >that didn't seem to take: > >[root at 157226-mail smrsh]# chown :mailman mailman >[root at 157226-mail smrsh]# ls -l >total 0 >lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 31 May 6 13:18 mailman -> >/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman >[root at 157226-mail smrsh]# =20 Ownership and permissions of the symlink itself are not relevant anyway, since everything is determined by the target. The group under which sendmail invokes the pipe (mail in this case) comes from the sendmail config (sendmail.mc/sendmail.cf), but I'm not a sendmail guy, so I can't tell you how to change it. The alternitive is to rerun configure and make install with all options as before except for the addition of --with-mail-gid=mail for configure. See . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From tyler at beloit.edu Tue May 6 21:58:46 2008 From: tyler at beloit.edu (Tim Tyler) Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 14:58:46 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outlook verification receipt via Mailman? Message-ID: <20080506195841.937F11B585FB@bcmail.beloit.edu> Mailman experts, We are running Mailman 2.1.9 on a Centos server. I recently had a request from a list owner that they would like to use the "Request a delivery receipt for this message" option in Outlook to all members in a particular list to verify that users have opened a message. However, mailman seems to corrupt the delivery of this feature. It works fine if she sends directly to users, but it fails if sent through mailman. I know that other pop clients also have this feature and they also fail if using mailman. Is it possible to configure Mailman to allow this feature through? If so, how might I go about it? Tim Tyler Network Engineer - Beloit College tyler at beloit.edu From honneus at cisco.com Tue May 6 22:32:33 2008 From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus)) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 16:32:33 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Join List Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D86C5918@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Hi Mark, Ok, so now I ran ./configure and make install again the following options set: --with-mail-gid=mail --with-cgi-gid=apache Then I restarted the mailmanctl with "bin/mailmanctl restart". This time it looked like it tried to run the "join" script when I sent an email request to the "test-join" alias, but I encountered the following trace in /usr/local/mailman/logs/error: May 06 16:22:42 2008 (21946) Uncaught runner exception: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower' May 06 16:22:42 2008 (21946) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 114, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 185, in _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 241, in _dispose res.do_command('join') File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 139, in do_command return handler.process(self, args) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py", line 74, in process if digest is None and password.lower() in ('digest', 'nodigest'): AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower' May 06 16:22:42 2008 (21946) SHUNTING: 1210105361.8833561+be09a2c252d173b24b464e6670d0f615e3da6e1a Thanks, Bill -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 3:08 PM To: Bill Honneus (honneus); mailman-users at python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Join List Problem Bill Honneus wrote: > >Now I am getting the following error: > >----- Forwarded Message ---- >From: Mail Delivery Subsystem >To: myAddress at yahoo.com >Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2008 1:11:04 PM >Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details > >The original message was received at Tue, 6 May 2008 13:11:04 -0400 >from my-hostname.domain.com [111.111.111.111] > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- >"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join test" > (reason: 2) > (expanded from: ) > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Group mismatch error. >Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group >"mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as >group "mail". Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group >"mailman", or re-run configure, providing the command line option >`--with-mail-gid=mail'. >554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 2 >Reporting-MTA: dns; my.domain.com >Received-From-MTA: DNS; my-hostname.domain.com >Arrival-Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 13:11:04 -0400 >I tried to change the ownership of the symbolic link to mailman, but >that didn't seem to take: > >[root at 157226-mail smrsh]# chown :mailman mailman [root at 157226-mail >smrsh]# ls -l total 0 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 31 May 6 13:18 mailman >-> /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman [root at 157226-mail smrsh]# =20 Ownership and permissions of the symlink itself are not relevant anyway, since everything is determined by the target. The group under which sendmail invokes the pipe (mail in this case) comes from the sendmail config (sendmail.mc/sendmail.cf), but I'm not a sendmail guy, so I can't tell you how to change it. The alternitive is to rerun configure and make install with all options as before except for the addition of --with-mail-gid=mail for configure. See . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From b19141 at anl.gov Tue May 6 22:55:04 2008 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 15:55:04 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outlook verification receipt via Mailman? In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Tim Tyler ' dated: Tue, 06 May 2008 14:58:46 -0500 Message-ID: <20080506205504.F3D0D17649@britaine.cis.anl.gov> Tim Tyler wrote: > Mailman experts, > We are running Mailman 2.1.9 on a Centos server. I recently had a >request from a list owner that they would like to use the "Request a >delivery receipt for this message" option in Outlook to all members >in a particular list to verify that users have opened a >message. However, mailman seems to corrupt the delivery of this >feature. It works fine if she sends directly to users, but it fails >if sent through mailman. I know that other pop clients also have >this feature and they also fail if using mailman. Is it possible to >configure Mailman to allow this feature through? If so, how might I >go about it? Note that the "Return-Receipt-To:" header is non-standard, and its implementation varies among Mail User Agents: 1) Return a receipt message when the mail is placed in the mailbox. 2) Return a receipt message when the mail is read by the recipient (but not when it is discarded). 3) Ignore and never return a receipt message. If you do not get a return receipt from someone, you cannot assume that the recipient has not seen the mail message. I have seen cases where someone posts to a list and wants a return receipt. Then each person who reads the mail sends a return receipt - not to the sender, but to the list. I do not remember what mailing list software was being used. I am not a big fan of return receipts. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 6 23:48:48 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 14:48:48 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outlook verification receipt via Mailman? In-Reply-To: <20080506195841.937F11B585FB@bcmail.beloit.edu> Message-ID: Tim Tyler wrote: > We are running Mailman 2.1.9 on a Centos server. I recently had a >request from a list owner that they would like to use the "Request a >delivery receipt for this message" option in Outlook to all members >in a particular list to verify that users have opened a >message. However, mailman seems to corrupt the delivery of this >feature. It works fine if she sends directly to users, but it fails >if sent through mailman. I know that other pop clients also have >this feature and they also fail if using mailman. Is it possible to >configure Mailman to allow this feature through? If so, how might I >go about it? Mailman intentionally removes 'return-receipt-to', 'disposition-notification-to', 'x-confirm-reading-to' and 'x-pmrqc' headers from list mail. Aside from the fact that these are non-standard, annoying and unreliable and might return to the list or the list-bounces address rather than the poster, they could also be used to fish for membership on a list with a private roster. If you want to expreiment with not removing them, you need to modify the code in Mailman/Handlers/Cleanse.py. There's no configuration setting to do this. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 7 01:31:23 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 16:31:23 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Join List Problem In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D86C5918@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Message-ID: Bill Honneus wrote: > >This time it looked like it tried to run the "join" script when I sent >an email request to the "test-join" alias, but I encountered the >following trace in /usr/local/mailman/logs/error: > >May 06 16:22:42 2008 (21946) Uncaught runner exception: 'NoneType' >object has no attribute 'lower' >May 06 16:22:42 2008 (21946) Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 114, in >_oneloop > self._onefile(msg, msgdata) > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 185, in >_onefile > keepqueued =3D self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 241, in >_dispose > res.do_command('join') > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 139, in >do_command > return handler.process(self, args) > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py", line 74, >in process > if digest is None and password.lower() in ('digest', 'nodigest'): >AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower' > >May 06 16:22:42 2008 (21946) SHUNTING: >1210105361.8833561+be09a2c252d173b24b464e6670d0f615e3da6e1a Sorry about that. That's a Mailman 2.1.10 bug. The fix is in the Mailman_2.1.10.patch file on the sourceforge and GNU download sites. See . The patch for this issue was also posted to this list and others on April 23. See , , and . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From bijayant4u at yahoo.com Wed May 7 11:07:14 2008 From: bijayant4u at yahoo.com (bijayant kumar) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 10:07:14 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] clarification on virtual domains Message-ID: <65644.38564.qm@web32701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi list, I have postfix configure for virtual domain. Whenever i add a new list for a new domain, it takes the new-list at previousdomain.com as a email address for newly created list and all the aliases being generated on the basis of previousdomain.com. When i change the default host this list prefers setting from the interface, then mails are started to bounce saying user unknown in virtual mailbox table. I will explain my problem with the example... I have three virtual domain dom1.com, dom2.com,dom3.com in mm_cfg.py i have POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['dom1.com'] add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom1.com') It works fine. lists created takes the address list1 at dom1.com. But when i add a new list say list2 like POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['dom1.com','dom2.com'] add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom1.com') add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom2.com') The newly created list2 takes the address list2 at dom1.com when i update hostname setting from the list2 Administrative interface, mail start bouncing. I hope i am able to convey my problem. My question is how to achieve this, i have read some articles and tried to follow those but without any success. Please guide me to achieve this. Bijayant Kumar Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com From b19141 at anl.gov Wed May 7 18:15:50 2008 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 11:15:50 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] clarification on virtual domains In-Reply-To: Mail from 'bijayant kumar ' dated: Wed, 7 May 2008 10:07:14 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <20080507161550.837BE17649@britaine.cis.anl.gov> bijayant kumar wrote: >Hi list, > >I have postfix configure for virtual domain. Whenever >i add a new list for a new domain, it takes the >new-list at previousdomain.com as a email address for >newly created list and all the aliases being generated >on the basis of previousdomain.com. When i change the >default host this list prefers setting from the >interface, then mails are started to bounce saying >user unknown in virtual mailbox table. I will explain >my problem with the example... >I have three virtual domain dom1.com, >dom2.com,dom3.com >in mm_cfg.py i have >POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['dom1.com'] >add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom1.com') > >It works fine. lists created takes the address >list1 at dom1.com. > >But when i add a new list say list2 like > >POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = >['dom1.com','dom2.com'] >add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom1.com') >add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom2.com') > >The newly created list2 takes the address >list2 at dom1.com > >when i update hostname setting from the list2 >Administrative interface, mail start bouncing. > >I hope i am able to convey my problem. > >My question is how to achieve this, i have read some >articles and tried to follow those but without any >success. Please guide me to achieve this. How do you create the new list? If via the command line /usr/sbin/newlist LISTNAME then you need a first parameter /usr/sbin/newlist -e DOMAIN LISTNAME for example, /usr/sbin/newlist -e dom2.com mynewlist Use /usr/sbin/newlist -h to get the help information for the newlist command. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 7 18:39:22 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 09:39:22 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] clarification on virtual domains In-Reply-To: <65644.38564.qm@web32701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: bijayant kumar wrote: > >I have postfix configure for virtual domain. Whenever >i add a new list for a new domain, it takes the >new-list at previousdomain.com as a email address for >newly created list and all the aliases being generated >on the basis of previousdomain.com. When i change the >default host this list prefers setting from the >interface, then mails are started to bounce saying >user unknown in virtual mailbox table. I will explain >my problem with the example... >I have three virtual domain dom1.com, >dom2.com,dom3.com >in mm_cfg.py i have >POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['dom1.com'] >add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom1.com') > >It works fine. lists created takes the address >list1 at dom1.com. > >But when i add a new list say list2 like > >POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = >['dom1.com','dom2.com'] >add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom1.com') >add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom2.com') > >The newly created list2 takes the address >list2 at dom1.com Are you sure it isn't the other way around? When you have add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom1.com') add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom2.com') The second entry effectively replaces the first because what they do is add entries to a Python dictionary (a hash table). The first argument is the key and the second is the value. So the first above makes an entry with key 'lists.bijayant.com' and value 'dom1.com' and the second replaces the value for key 'lists.bijayant.com' with 'dom2.com' >when i update hostname setting from the list2 >Administrative interface, mail start bouncing. If you run Mailman's bin/genaliases after editing the list's host_name, that should fix the virtual maps. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From opensource at unixoses.com Wed May 7 18:31:13 2008 From: opensource at unixoses.com (Paul) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 12:31:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] clarification on virtual domains Message-ID: <2932.12.32.10.83.1210177873.squirrel@bikesn4x4s.com> On Wed, May 7, 2008 5:07 am, bijayant kumar wrote: > Hi list, > > I have postfix configure for virtual domain. Whenever > i add a new list for a new domain, it takes the > new-list at previousdomain.com as a email address for > newly created list and all the aliases being generated > on the basis of previousdomain.com. When i change the > default host this list prefers setting from the > interface, then mails are started to bounce saying > user unknown in virtual mailbox table. I will explain > my problem with the example... > I have three virtual domain dom1.com, > dom2.com,dom3.com > in mm_cfg.py i have > POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['dom1.com'] > add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom1.com') > > It works fine. lists created takes the address > list1 at dom1.com. > > But when i add a new list say list2 like > > POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = > ['dom1.com','dom2.com'] > add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom1.com') > add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom2.com') Try setting your new domain in postfix in this setting: mydestination = newdomain.com Then it will use the mailman aliases or you will need to manual set all aliasing in the postfix aliasing. From cwaltham at bowdoin.edu Wed May 7 21:03:52 2008 From: cwaltham at bowdoin.edu (Chris Waltham) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 15:03:52 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Phantom moderation pending requests & heldmsg files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1964443D-6310-48C9-A794-6CBE471DB73A@bowdoin.edu> Hi Mark, Just to re-visit this... On Apr 8, 2008, at 1:24 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Chris Waltham wrote: >> >> With the exception of 3-4 lists (out of 800+), I let the "make >> update" >> command run so I presume that actually upgraded the lists. I think I >> might just delete the holdmsg files en masse, I can't see why >> (organizationally) I should need to keep them. > > > When you delete these files, it is better to use bin/discard as > discussed in > > rather than just rm. This is because bin/discard actually removes the > held message from the requests.pck file (see below). However, if the > heldmsg-* file is an orphan, it won't be removed by bin/discard, so > you need to run bin/discard first and then rm any files left. > > The problem with just removing the heldmsg-* file is if there are a > large number of held messages for a single list, the admindb CGI can > time out trying to create the held messages page, and just removing > the heldmsg-* files without also removing the request.pck entries > won't cure this time out. I looked at my heldmsg files (all 40,000 of them :-)) and there are a number patterns. Most heldmsg files are from a handful of lists (let's call them baseball and football). If I do a dumpdb of the hockey list's pending.pck file, this is the output: [mailman at list ~/bin]$ ./dumpdb ../lists/hockey/pending.pck [----- start pickle file -----] <----- start object 1 -----> { '6183e43cf99b4a6850537d2a4837b26886bade2a': ('H', 5145), 'd22c46a0b5c704ec8be5c63a791e53adc23dc7fc': ('H', 5146), 'df7eae0e0a275c43b9c4bfb8d5f037df578e6cc2': ('H', 5147), Now, the first line ends with the value "5145". Here is what I can find on the filesystem: [mailman at list ~/data]$ ls -al heldmsg-hockey* | grep 5145 -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 3395 May 4 12:54 heldmsg- hockey-5145.pck I rinsed & repeated that process with the other two entries in the pending.pck file, i.e. 5146 and 5147. For both of those two, I can find heldmsg-hockey-NNNN.pck (where NNNN equals the ID above). However, I still have an awful lot of heldmsg-hockey files that are .txt files, not .pck files: [mailman at list ~/data]$ ls -al heldmsg-hockey*.txt | wc -l 3610 [mailman at list ~/data]$ ls -alt heldmsg-hockey*.txt | head -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 2210 Mar 13 08:42 heldmsg- hockey-4920.txt -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 3250 Mar 13 08:14 heldmsg- hockey-4919.txt -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 3646 Mar 13 01:18 heldmsg- hockey-4918.txt -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 2505 Mar 12 03:50 heldmsg- hockey-4917.txt -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 2377 Mar 12 03:50 heldmsg- hockey-4916.txt -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 2815 Mar 11 14:38 heldmsg- hockey-4915.txt -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 2354 Mar 10 12:02 heldmsg- hockey-4914.txt -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 2591 Mar 10 11:28 heldmsg- hockey-4913.txt -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 2227 Mar 10 11:19 heldmsg- hockey-4912.txt -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 2551 Mar 10 11:19 heldmsg- hockey-4911.txt I think March 10 is around the time that I went from Mailman 2.0.12 to 2.1.9. Now my question is this: does Mailman 2.1.9 reference .txt files for heldmessages, or are we only using .pck files now? Thanks! Chris From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 7 22:07:08 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 13:07:08 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Phantom moderation pending requests & heldmsg files In-Reply-To: <1964443D-6310-48C9-A794-6CBE471DB73A@bowdoin.edu> Message-ID: Chris Waltham wrote: >Hi Mark, > >Just to re-visit this... > >On Apr 8, 2008, at 1:24 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> Chris Waltham wrote: >>> >>> With the exception of 3-4 lists (out of 800+), I let the "make >>> update" >>> command run so I presume that actually upgraded the lists. I think I >>> might just delete the holdmsg files en masse, I can't see why >>> (organizationally) I should need to keep them. >> >> >> When you delete these files, it is better to use bin/discard as >> discussed in >> >> rather than just rm. This is because bin/discard actually removes the >> held message from the requests.pck file (see below). However, if the >> heldmsg-* file is an orphan, it won't be removed by bin/discard, so >> you need to run bin/discard first and then rm any files left. >> >> The problem with just removing the heldmsg-* file is if there are a >> large number of held messages for a single list, the admindb CGI can >> time out trying to create the held messages page, and just removing >> the heldmsg-* files without also removing the request.pck entries >> won't cure this time out. > >I looked at my heldmsg files (all 40,000 of them :-)) and there are a >number patterns. Most heldmsg files are from a handful of lists (let's >call them baseball and football). If I do a dumpdb of the hockey >list's pending.pck file, this is the output: > >[mailman at list ~/bin]$ ./dumpdb ../lists/hockey/pending.pck >[----- start pickle file -----] ><----- start object 1 -----> >{ '6183e43cf99b4a6850537d2a4837b26886bade2a': ('H', 5145), > 'd22c46a0b5c704ec8be5c63a791e53adc23dc7fc': ('H', 5146), > 'df7eae0e0a275c43b9c4bfb8d5f037df578e6cc2': ('H', 5147), Note that the entries in lists/hockey/pending.pck are only the confirmation tokens and they expire after (default) 3 days, so there may normally be lots of held messages that are not in pending.pck. The tokens in pending.pck are for the submitter of the held message to be able to cancel the post or for the admin/moderator to be able to cancel or approve the post by email. They have nothing to do with what's in the admindb interface which is controlled by what's in the request.pck file. >Now, the first line ends with the value "5145". Here is what I can >find on the filesystem: > >[mailman at list ~/data]$ ls -al heldmsg-hockey* | grep 5145 >-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 3395 May 4 12:54 heldmsg- >hockey-5145.pck > >I rinsed & repeated that process with the other two entries in the >pending.pck file, i.e. 5146 and 5147. For both of those two, I can >find heldmsg-hockey-NNNN.pck (where NNNN equals the ID above). >However, I still have an awful lot of heldmsg-hockey files that >are .txt files, not .pck files: The fact that they are .txt files is not a problem per se. As long as there are entries in request.pck for them, they should appear in the admindb interface and can be approved if you wish, or rejected or discarded. If they are not in request.pck and do not appear in the admindb interface, all you can do is remove the files or 'repost' the messages using bin/inject >[mailman at list ~/data]$ ls -al heldmsg-hockey*.txt | wc -l >3610 > >[mailman at list ~/data]$ ls -alt heldmsg-hockey*.txt | head >-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 2210 Mar 13 08:42 heldmsg- >hockey-4920.txt >-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 3250 Mar 13 08:14 heldmsg- >hockey-4919.txt >-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 3646 Mar 13 01:18 heldmsg- >hockey-4918.txt >-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 2505 Mar 12 03:50 heldmsg- >hockey-4917.txt >-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 2377 Mar 12 03:50 heldmsg- >hockey-4916.txt >-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 2815 Mar 11 14:38 heldmsg- >hockey-4915.txt >-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 2354 Mar 10 12:02 heldmsg- >hockey-4914.txt >-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 2591 Mar 10 11:28 heldmsg- >hockey-4913.txt >-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 2227 Mar 10 11:19 heldmsg- >hockey-4912.txt >-rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 2551 Mar 10 11:19 heldmsg- >hockey-4911.txt > >I think March 10 is around the time that I went from Mailman 2.0.12 to >2.1.9. Now my question is this: does Mailman 2.1.9 reference .txt >files for heldmessages, or are we only using .pck files now? Theis is controlled by HOLD_MESSAGES_AS_PICKLES which defaults to Yes but can be set to No in mm_cfg.py. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From cwaltham at bowdoin.edu Wed May 7 22:27:45 2008 From: cwaltham at bowdoin.edu (Chris Waltham) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 16:27:45 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Phantom moderation pending requests & heldmsg files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On May 7, 2008, at 4:07 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >>> I looked at my heldmsg files (all 40,000 of them :-)) and there >>> are a >> number patterns. Most heldmsg files are from a handful of lists >> (let's >> call them baseball and football). If I do a dumpdb of the hockey >> list's pending.pck file, this is the output: >> >> [mailman at list ~/bin]$ ./dumpdb ../lists/hockey/pending.pck >> [----- start pickle file -----] >> <----- start object 1 -----> >> { '6183e43cf99b4a6850537d2a4837b26886bade2a': ('H', 5145), >> 'd22c46a0b5c704ec8be5c63a791e53adc23dc7fc': ('H', 5146), >> 'df7eae0e0a275c43b9c4bfb8d5f037df578e6cc2': ('H', 5147), > > > Note that the entries in lists/hockey/pending.pck are only the > confirmation tokens and they expire after (default) 3 days, so there > may normally be lots of held messages that are not in pending.pck. Okay. > The tokens in pending.pck are for the submitter of the held message to > be able to cancel the post or for the admin/moderator to be able to > cancel or approve the post by email. They have nothing to do with > what's in the admindb interface which is controlled by what's in the > request.pck file. Okay. :-) That clears up things very well, thank you. [mailman at list ~/lists/hockey]$ dumpdb request.pck | grep heldmsg | wc -l 3835 >> Now, the first line ends with the value "5145". Here is what I can >> find on the filesystem: >> >> [mailman at list ~/data]$ ls -al heldmsg-hockey* | grep 5145 >> -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 3395 May 4 12:54 heldmsg- >> hockey-5145.pck >> >> I rinsed & repeated that process with the other two entries in the >> pending.pck file, i.e. 5146 and 5147. For both of those two, I can >> find heldmsg-hockey-NNNN.pck (where NNNN equals the ID above). >> However, I still have an awful lot of heldmsg-hockey files that >> are .txt files, not .pck files: > > > The fact that they are .txt files is not a problem per se. As long as > there are entries in request.pck for them, they should appear in the > admindb interface and can be approved if you wish, or rejected or > discarded. Now if I run bin/discard, that will discard all the messages in request.pck, right? As per this FAQ entry: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.074.htp Can you think of an easy way to discard all the messages in request.pck _except those_ which still have tokens remaining in pending.pck? Chris From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 7 22:59:43 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 13:59:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Phantom moderation pending requests & heldmsg files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Chris Waltham wrote: >Can you think of an easy way to discard all the messages in >request.pck _except those_ which still have tokens remaining in >pending.pck? If you're willing to accept that the only messages that have unexpired tokens left in pending.pck are those newer than PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE which defaults to 3 days, you can use the method suggested in the FAQ $ cd ~mailman $ find data -name heldmsg--\* -print | xargs bin/discard but make it $ cd ~mailman $ find data -name heldmsg-\* -mtime +3 -print | xargs bin/discard -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From bijayant4u at yahoo.com Thu May 8 06:27:28 2008 From: bijayant4u at yahoo.com (bijayant kumar) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 05:27:28 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] clarification on virtual domains In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <255510.59198.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks Mark for your reply. It is a great help to understand some basic things about mailman. --- Mark Sapiro wrote: > bijayant kumar wrote: > > > >I have postfix configure for virtual domain. > Whenever > >i add a new list for a new domain, it takes the > >new-list at previousdomain.com as a email address for > >newly created list and all the aliases being > generated > >on the basis of previousdomain.com. When i change > the > >default host this list prefers setting from the > >interface, then mails are started to bounce saying > >user unknown in virtual mailbox table. I will > explain > >my problem with the example... > >I have three virtual domain dom1.com, > >dom2.com,dom3.com > >in mm_cfg.py i have > >POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['dom1.com'] > >add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom1.com') > > > >It works fine. lists created takes the address > >list1 at dom1.com. > > > >But when i add a new list say list2 like > > > >POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = > >['dom1.com','dom2.com'] > >add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom1.com') > >add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom2.com') > > > >The newly created list2 takes the address > >list2 at dom1.com > > > Are you sure it isn't the other way around? When you > have > > add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom1.com') > add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom2.com') > > The second entry effectively replaces the first > because what they do is > add entries to a Python dictionary (a hash table). > The first argument > is the key and the second is the value. So the first > above makes an > entry with key 'lists.bijayant.com' and value > 'dom1.com' and the > second replaces the value for key > 'lists.bijayant.com' with 'dom2.com' I am not sure about this functionality of python, but what you are saying seems to right. After this explanation, it is little bit clear to me now why the second domain is taking the previous value. But i dont have any other option because i have to use only one url i.e 'lists.bijayant.com'. So all the lists created have to take the same url 'lists.bijayant.com'. > > >when i update hostname setting from the list2 > >Administrative interface, mail start bouncing. > > > If you run Mailman's bin/genaliases after editing > the list's host_name, > that should fix the virtual maps. I have not tried this yet, because list creator is creating the list via the web-interface and he do not have access the box where the mailman is running. I will try this and let you know. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is > for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use > your sense - B. Dylan > > Bijayant Kumar Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com From bijayant4u at yahoo.com Thu May 8 06:31:20 2008 From: bijayant4u at yahoo.com (bijayant kumar) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 05:31:20 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] clarification on virtual domains In-Reply-To: <20080507161550.837BE17649@britaine.cis.anl.gov> Message-ID: <89267.17638.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks Barry. I use Web Interface to create the lists. I have not tried yet the command-line option. In my scenario i think that i have to use command-line option to create the list. --- Barry Finkel wrote: > bijayant kumar wrote: > > >Hi list, > > > >I have postfix configure for virtual domain. > Whenever > >i add a new list for a new domain, it takes the > >new-list at previousdomain.com as a email address for > >newly created list and all the aliases being > generated > >on the basis of previousdomain.com. When i change > the > >default host this list prefers setting from the > >interface, then mails are started to bounce saying > >user unknown in virtual mailbox table. I will > explain > >my problem with the example... > >I have three virtual domain dom1.com, > >dom2.com,dom3.com > >in mm_cfg.py i have > >POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['dom1.com'] > >add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom1.com') > > > >It works fine. lists created takes the address > >list1 at dom1.com. > > > >But when i add a new list say list2 like > > > >POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = > >['dom1.com','dom2.com'] > >add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom1.com') > >add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom2.com') > > > >The newly created list2 takes the address > >list2 at dom1.com > > > >when i update hostname setting from the list2 > >Administrative interface, mail start bouncing. > > > >I hope i am able to convey my problem. > > > >My question is how to achieve this, i have read > some > >articles and tried to follow those but without any > >success. Please guide me to achieve this. > > How do you create the new list? If via the command > line > > /usr/sbin/newlist LISTNAME > > then you need a first parameter > > /usr/sbin/newlist -e DOMAIN LISTNAME > > for example, > > /usr/sbin/newlist -e dom2.com mynewlist > > Use > > /usr/sbin/newlist -h > > to get the help information for the newlist command. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Barry S. Finkel > Computing and Information Systems Division > Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 > (630) 252-7277 > 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 > (630) 252-4601 > Building 222, Room D209 Internet: > BSFinkel at anl.gov > Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: > I1004994 > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list > Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: > http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bijayant4u%40yahoo.com > > Security Policy: > http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp > Bijayant Kumar Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com From jimnorton at jimnorton.org Thu May 8 08:14:11 2008 From: jimnorton at jimnorton.org (Jim Norton) Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 23:14:11 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Command line modification of user options? Message-ID: <20080507231411.s20l18amzoowgsks@webmail2.jimnorton.org> Hello all, I run a large list and have a need to turn of the no-mail by-bounce setting from a large number of subscribers. Is there an easy way to do this from the command-line? Or perhaps somebody has a script? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Norton "The starting point of all achievement is desire. Keep this constantly in mind. Weak desires bring weak results, just as a small amount of fire makes a small amount of heat." - Napoleon Hill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jeff at stbartsfw.org Thu May 8 08:50:30 2008 From: jeff at stbartsfw.org (Jeff Hedglen) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 01:50:30 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not working Message-ID: <5ABB270EDF164707B6E57B4E1B94B905@HedglenHomePC> My mailman program just quit working - the mail is sent back undeliverable after over a year of working just fine Anyone else have this issue. I did nothing different and none of my lists work Jeff From hmag at ozemail.com.au Thu May 8 08:57:37 2008 From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 16:57:37 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not working In-Reply-To: <5ABB270EDF164707B6E57B4E1B94B905@HedglenHomePC> References: <5ABB270EDF164707B6E57B4E1B94B905@HedglenHomePC> Message-ID: >My mailman program just quit working - the mail is sent back >undeliverable after over a year of working just fine > > > >Anyone else have this issue. > > > >I did nothing different and none of my lists work > > Hi again, Stab on the dark here, but I would say that your mailman daemon or queue runner has unexpectedly crashed & not picking up mail or a corruption issue in your mailman lists is causing the issue - your mail server log should provide at least some idea, as should the bounce message. -- Bye for now, Terry Allen ___________________________________________________________________ hEARd Postal Address: hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd, Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia Internet - WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400 Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400 ----------------------------------------------- Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994 ----------------------------------------------- From sven at root2.schroederhost.de Thu May 8 14:20:09 2008 From: sven at root2.schroederhost.de (Sven Schmidt) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 14:20:09 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Date and squence numbe in subject Message-ID: <4822EFF9.90600@root2.schroederhost.de> I want to set a sequence number in topic but not start at 1. Additionaly I want to add the current date. How I do this? (mailman 2.1.10) From b19141 at anl.gov Thu May 8 15:09:57 2008 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 08:09:57 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not working In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Jeff Hedglen" ' dated: Thu, 8 May 2008 01:50:30 -0500 Message-ID: <20080508130957.541BB17649@britaine.cis.anl.gov> "Jeff Hedglen" wrote: >My mailman program just quit working - the mail is sent back >undeliverable after over a year of working just fine > >Anyone else have this issue. > >I did nothing different and none of my lists work You have not given us enough information on which to do diagnosis. Mail can be sent back as undeliverable for any number of reasons. If you had included one of the rejection messages, maybe we could have made some educated guesses. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 8 15:57:14 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 06:57:14 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] clarification on virtual domains In-Reply-To: <255510.59198.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: bijayant kumar wrote: > >--- Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> Are you sure it isn't the other way around? When you >> have >> >> add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom1.com') >> add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom2.com') >> >> The second entry effectively replaces the first >> because what they do is >> add entries to a Python dictionary (a hash table). >> The first argument >> is the key and the second is the value. So the first >> above makes an >> entry with key 'lists.bijayant.com' and value >> 'dom1.com' and the >> second replaces the value for key >> 'lists.bijayant.com' with 'dom2.com' > >I am not sure about this functionality of python, but >what you are saying seems to right. After this >explanation, it is little bit clear to me now why the >second domain is taking the previous value. But i dont >have any other option because i have to use only one >url i.e 'lists.bijayant.com'. So all the lists created >have to take the same url 'lists.bijayant.com'. In that case, every list you create from the web will have the same value for host_name and the data/virtual-mailman entries will have that domain. If it is wrong, you will need to change it via the web and then run bin/genaliases to rebuild data/virtual-mailman. Otherwise, you can create lists with bin/newlist and specify the host_name with the -e/--emailhost option. But, if all lists have the same web domain why do you want them to have different email domains? The listnames have to be unique anyway, so why not just have them all in your primary email domain and not bother with additional domains? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 8 16:07:11 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 07:07:11 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Command line modification of user options? In-Reply-To: <20080507231411.s20l18amzoowgsks@webmail2.jimnorton.org> Message-ID: Jim Norton wrote: > >I run a large list and have a need to turn of the no-mail by-bounce >setting from a large number of subscribers. > >Is there an easy way to do this from the command-line? Or perhaps >somebody has a script? There is a withlist script at ; mirrored at and . This script will reset no-mail by-bounce for all members or all members in a given domain. A single withlist command can run it for a single list or for all lists. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 8 16:15:01 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 07:15:01 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not working In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Terry Allen wrote: >>My mailman program just quit working - the mail is sent back >>undeliverable after over a year of working just fine >> >> >> >>Anyone else have this issue. >> >> >> >>I did nothing different and none of my lists work >> >> >Hi again, > Stab on the dark here, but I would say that your mailman >daemon or queue runner has unexpectedly crashed & not picking up mail If grunners die or Mailman is not running, the MTA should still be able to deliver to Mailman's queues as the delivery doesn't depend on any running daemon processes, so the above is probably not the issue. >or a corruption issue in your mailman lists is causing the issue - or some problem in Mailman's mail wrapper or post script or the MTA itself. >your mail server log should provide at least some idea, as should the >bounce message. Right. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From J.Angel at herts.ac.uk Thu May 8 16:11:17 2008 From: J.Angel at herts.ac.uk (Judy Angel) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 15:11:17 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] reply to sender and not list Message-ID: <109581000.1210259477@ICT-JA> How can I set the list up so that the reply by default goes to the individual sender not the list? thanks Judy Angel University of Hertfordshire From cwaltham at bowdoin.edu Thu May 8 16:23:00 2008 From: cwaltham at bowdoin.edu (Chris Waltham) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:23:00 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Phantom moderation pending requests & heldmsg files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <541600CA-F5A2-4172-BD5F-405051618483@bowdoin.edu> On May 7, 2008, at 4:59 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Chris Waltham wrote: > >> Can you think of an easy way to discard all the messages in >> request.pck _except those_ which still have tokens remaining in >> pending.pck? > > > If you're willing to accept that the only messages that have unexpired > tokens left in pending.pck are those newer than PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE > which defaults to 3 days, you can use the method suggested in the FAQ Just out of interest, how do I check and/or set that variable? I tried looking through list configs for pending_request_life and didn't see it; is it a global setting unless the list owner specifically changes it? I looked in the FAQ and couldn't find the answer, either. Thanks again, Chris From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 8 16:35:58 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 07:35:58 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] reply to sender and not list In-Reply-To: <109581000.1210259477@ICT-JA> Message-ID: Judy Angel wrote: > >How can I set the list up so that the reply by default goes to the >individual sender not the list? On the lists General Options page, set first_strip_reply_to to No and reply_goes_to_list to Poster. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From cwaltham at bowdoin.edu Thu May 8 16:39:34 2008 From: cwaltham at bowdoin.edu (Chris Waltham) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:39:34 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Phantom moderation pending requests & heldmsg files In-Reply-To: <541600CA-F5A2-4172-BD5F-405051618483@bowdoin.edu> References: <541600CA-F5A2-4172-BD5F-405051618483@bowdoin.edu> Message-ID: <04697D5D-70DF-41DC-93A0-955CFB730678@bowdoin.edu> On May 8, 2008, at 10:23 AM, Chris Waltham wrote: > On May 7, 2008, at 4:59 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> Chris Waltham wrote: >> >>> Can you think of an easy way to discard all the messages in >>> request.pck _except those_ which still have tokens remaining in >>> pending.pck? >> >> >> If you're willing to accept that the only messages that have >> unexpired >> tokens left in pending.pck are those newer than PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE >> which defaults to 3 days, you can use the method suggested in the FAQ > > Just out of interest, how do I check and/or set that variable? I > tried looking through list configs for pending_request_life and > didn't see it; is it a global setting unless the list owner > specifically changes it? I looked in the FAQ and couldn't find the > answer, either. Foolish me! [mailman at list ~/Mailman]$ grep PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE Defaults.py PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE = days(3) So sorry. :-) Chris From jeff at stbartsfw.org Thu May 8 17:01:22 2008 From: jeff at stbartsfw.org (Jeff Hedglen) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:01:22 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender Message-ID: <42CBC15F0C9343C797151541B5FEC9AD@JeffsOffice> Thanks for the replies - some people asked for more information on my mail return information. All other mail sends and receives fine but the mailman posts all come back undeliverable Here is the error message I receive - This message was created automatically by mail delivery software. A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: sbyam at stbartsfw.org SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:: host 64.207.194.132 [64.207.194.132]: 451 Temporary local problem - please try later: retry timeout exceeded From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 8 17:10:59 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 08:10:59 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Date and squence numbe in subject In-Reply-To: <4822EFF9.90600@root2.schroederhost.de> Message-ID: Sven Schmidt wrote: >I want to set a sequence number in topic but not start at 1. The sequence number is the list attribute post_id which started at list inception. You can see what it currently is with bin/dumpdb lists//config.pck | grep post_id If its current value is not acceptable, you can set post_id to anything you want with bin/withlist or bin/config_list, but be sure to set it to a floating point number, e.g. 12345.0 rather than 12345 >Additionaly I want to add the current date. How I do this? >(mailman 2.1.10) Only by modifying the code in Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 8 17:22:59 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 08:22:59 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Mail delivery failed: returning message tosender In-Reply-To: <42CBC15F0C9343C797151541B5FEC9AD@JeffsOffice> Message-ID: Jeff Hedglen wrote: > >Here is the error message I receive - > > >This message was created automatically by mail delivery software. > >A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its >recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: > > sbyam at stbartsfw.org > SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:: > host 64.207.194.132 [64.207.194.132]: 451 Temporary local problem - >please try later: > retry timeout exceeded That doesn't give a lot of help. The mail log might have more. But since the 451 comes after the RCPT TO: and before the DATA, we can see that the problem is with the address and not with delivery. Perhaps the aliases database has become corrupted or something has changed in the MTA configuration. In any case, this problem is with something to do with the MTA at 64.207.194.132, and not directly with Mailman. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 8 17:42:00 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 08:42:00 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Mail delivery failed: returning messagetosender In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark Sapiro wrote: >Jeff Hedglen wrote: >> >>Here is the error message I receive - >> >> >>This message was created automatically by mail delivery software. >> >>A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its >>recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: >> >> sbyam at stbartsfw.org >> SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:: >> host 64.207.194.132 [64.207.194.132]: 451 Temporary local problem - >>please try later: >> retry timeout exceeded > > >That doesn't give a lot of help. The mail log might have more. > >But since the 451 comes after the RCPT TO: and >before the DATA, we can see that the problem is with the address and >not with delivery. Perhaps the aliases database has become corrupted >or something has changed in the MTA configuration. In any case, this >problem is with something to do with the MTA at 64.207.194.132, and >not directly with Mailman. I looked a bit further. The primary MX for stbartsfw.org is mail.stbartsfw.org. This MX apparently receives the mail for sbyam at stbartsfw.org and relays it to 64.207.194.132. Exim answers the port 25 connect to 64.207.194.132, but it returns the "451 Temporary local problem - please try later:" to any RCPT TO: that I tried. Possibly it returns 451 for any 'invalid' address, but in any case it appears it is not even trying to deliver mail to sbyam at stbartsfw.org. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From scott at fyrenice.com Thu May 8 18:13:56 2008 From: scott at fyrenice.com (Dr. Scott S. Jones) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:13:56 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] More than just email? Message-ID: <20080508161356.GA26314@comcast.net> I manage several lists with my 2.1.9 installation of MailMan. I would LIKE to have MailMan continue in it's intended function, but also want to know if anyone here integrates MM with other databases to keep track of more than just Name email at address.com. More clearly, I guess I am hoping to integrate MM with other applications to work as a contact manager, to track calls, letters, emails, for my growing contact list. Suggestions? -- "If you can't afford Prevention now, how will you afford disease later?" Sandy Chiropractic Office Dr. Scott S. Jones V: 801.566.5428 MAILING ADDRESS F: 801.858.9300 PO Box 1154 E: scott at fyrenice.com Sandy, Utah 84091-1154 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From dragon at crimson-dragon.com Thu May 8 18:25:51 2008 From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 09:25:51 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] More than just email? In-Reply-To: <20080508161356.GA26314@comcast.net> References: <20080508161356.GA26314@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200805081625.m48GPo7g025153@newbox.eroded.org> Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote: >I manage several lists with my 2.1.9 installation of MailMan. I would LIKE >to have MailMan continue in it's intended function, but also want to know if >anyone here integrates MM with other databases to keep track of more than >just Name email at address.com. More clearly, I guess I am hoping to integrate >MM with other applications to work as a contact manager, to track calls, >letters, emails, for my growing contact list. > >Suggestions? ---------------- End original message. --------------------- Honestly, you would probably be a lot better off using a contact management program written for the purpose than trying to make Mailman fit the role. Mailman is a mailing list manager and it is very good for the purpose it was written for. It would be a major programming task to try to get it to do what you want. In my opinion, that time and effort would be better spent getting and using a tool specific to your needs. Dragon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 8 19:09:15 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:09:15 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] More than just email? In-Reply-To: <20080508161356.GA26314@comcast.net> Message-ID: Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote: > >I manage several lists with my 2.1.9 installation of MailMan. I would LIKE >to have MailMan continue in it's intended function, but also want to know if >anyone here integrates MM with other databases to keep track of more than >just Name email at address.com. More clearly, I guess I am hoping to integrate >MM with other applications to work as a contact manager, to track calls, >letters, emails, for my growing contact list. I don't know if this is what you have in mind, but there are a couple of MySQL MemberAdaptor modules. These allow Mailman to use a MySQL database for it's list membership. This would allow you to maintain your contact information (outside of Mailman) in a MySQL database and have Mailman access that database directly for list membership information. The original by Kev Green is at , but there is a later version at . A variant based on the original is at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From cite at incertum.net Thu May 8 19:49:20 2008 From: cite at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 19:49:20 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Command line modification of user options? In-Reply-To: References: <20080507231411.s20l18amzoowgsks@webmail2.jimnorton.org> Message-ID: <20080508174920.GE6643@mail.incertum.net> * Mark Sapiro wrote: > >Is there an easy way to do this from the command-line? Or perhaps > >somebody has a script? > > > There is a withlist script at > ; mirrored at > and > . [...] I've had, for different reasons, a look at http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/set_nodups.py which contains the following line: mlist.setMemberOption(member, mm_cfg.DontReceiveDuplicates, 1) Since this is exactly what I am looking for (well, more or less), I'd like to ask where I can get a list of all parameters (I'm talking about "DontReceiveDuplicates" right now) which can be used to modify subscriber options. Thanks in advance Stefan From stephen at xemacs.org Thu May 8 20:03:05 2008 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 03:03:05 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Mail delivery failed: returning messagetosender In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87bq3gr7vq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Mark Sapiro writes: > 64.207.194.132. Exim answers the port 25 connect to 64.207.194.132, > but it returns the "451 Temporary local problem - please try later:" > to any RCPT TO: that I tried. Did you try "postmaster"? If that doesn't work, 64.207.194.132 is seriously bunged anyway. From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 8 20:12:40 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:12:40 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Command line modification of user options? In-Reply-To: <20080508174920.GE6643@mail.incertum.net> Message-ID: Stefan F?rster wrote: > >I've had, for different reasons, a look at >http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/set_nodups.py which contains the >following line: > >mlist.setMemberOption(member, mm_cfg.DontReceiveDuplicates, 1) > >Since this is exactly what I am looking for (well, more or less), I'd >like to ask where I can get a list of all parameters (I'm talking >about "DontReceiveDuplicates" right now) which can be used to modify >subscriber options. in Defaults.py # Bitfield for user options. See DEFAULT_NEW_MEMBER_OPTIONS above to set # defaults for all new lists. Digests = 0 # handled by other mechanism, doesn't need a flag. DisableDelivery = 1 # Obsolete; use set/getDeliveryStatus() DontReceiveOwnPosts = 2 # Non-digesters only AcknowledgePosts = 4 DisableMime = 8 # Digesters only ConcealSubscription = 16 SuppressPasswordReminder = 32 ReceiveNonmatchingTopics = 64 Moderate = 128 DontReceiveDuplicates = 256 # A mapping between short option tags and their flag OPTINFO = {'hide' : ConcealSubscription, 'nomail' : DisableDelivery, 'ack' : AcknowledgePosts, 'notmetoo': DontReceiveOwnPosts, 'digest' : 0, 'plain' : DisableMime, 'nodupes' : DontReceiveDuplicates } -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 8 20:21:47 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:21:47 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Mail delivery failed: returningmessagetosender In-Reply-To: <87bq3gr7vq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >Mark Sapiro writes: > > > 64.207.194.132. Exim answers the port 25 connect to 64.207.194.132, > > but it returns the "451 Temporary local problem - please try later:" > > to any RCPT TO: that I tried. > >Did you try "postmaster"? If that doesn't work, 64.207.194.132 is >seriously bunged anyway. I just did - - mail from: 250 OK rcpt to: 451 Temporary local problem - please try later rcpt to: 451 Temporary local problem - please try later rcpt to: 451 Temporary local problem - please try later rcpt to: The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From cite at incertum.net Thu May 8 21:31:02 2008 From: cite at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=F6rster?=) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 21:31:02 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Command line modification of user options? In-Reply-To: References: <20080508174920.GE6643@mail.incertum.net> Message-ID: <20080508193101.GA32713@mail.incertum.net> * Mark Sapiro wrote: > Stefan F?rster wrote: >> Since this is exactly what I am looking for (well, more or less), I'd >> like to ask where I can get a list of all parameters (I'm talking >> about "DontReceiveDuplicates" right now) which can be used to modify >> subscriber options. > > > in Defaults.py Thank you, this comes in very handy. Ciao Stefan -- Stefan F?rster http://www.incertum.net/ Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9 FdI #314: Outlook (Express) - Designed to enable Virus replication. (Microsoft) From lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl Thu May 8 21:49:32 2008 From: lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl (lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 21:49:32 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with subscribe Message-ID: <20080508195305.1E50320491A@duinheks.nl> Hallo mailman-users, When I send a message to duinheks-test-subscribe, the request does not arrive in mailman, but produces the following in the error log: May 08 21:47:51 2008 (3636) Uncaught runner exception: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower' May 08 21:47:51 2008 (3636) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 114, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 185, in _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 241, in _dispose res.do_command('join') File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 139, in do_command return handler.process(self, args) File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py", line 74, in process if digest is None and password.lower() in ('digest', 'nodigest'): AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower' May 08 21:47:51 2008 (3636) SHUNTING: 1210276071.4968121+a7b07b7c3e9162f8487f34b404c47109de1dd745 I'm using mailman 2.1.10 under SlackWare 12.0. Please help me, I have not the faintest idea where to look. Groeten, Hans. jdh punt beekhuizen bij duinheks punt nl --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5/080305 * Origin: The Wizard is using MBSE/Linux (2:280/1018) From b19141 at anl.gov Thu May 8 22:29:06 2008 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 15:29:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with subscribe In-Reply-To: Mail from 'lists.mailman-users@duinheks.nl' dated: Thu, 08 May 2008 21:49:32 +0200 Message-ID: <20080508202906.33F4717649@britaine.cis.anl.gov> lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl wrote: >Hallo mailman-users, > >When I send a message to duinheks-test-subscribe, the request >does not arrive in mailman, but produces the following in the >error log: >May 08 21:47:51 2008 (3636) Uncaught runner exception: 'NoneType' object has >no >attribute 'lower' >May 08 21:47:51 2008 (3636) Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 114, in _oneloop > self._onefile(msg, msgdata) > File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 185, in _onefile > keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) > File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 241, in _dispose > res.do_command('join') > File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 139, in do_command > return handler.process(self, args) > File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py", line 74, in process > if digest is None and password.lower() in ('digest', 'nodigest'): >AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower' >May 08 21:47:51 2008 (3636) SHUNTING: >1210276071.4968121+a7b07b7c3e9162f8487f34b404c47109de1dd745 > >I'm using mailman 2.1.10 under SlackWare 12.0. > >Please help me, I have not the faintest idea where to look. > >Groeten, > > Hans. A search of the list archives shows that this is a 2.1.10 bug for which Mark Sapiro has released a patch. http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg49039.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From bijayant4u at yahoo.com Fri May 9 06:20:08 2008 From: bijayant4u at yahoo.com (bijayant kumar) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 05:20:08 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] clarification on virtual domains In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <454975.87375.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Mark Sapiro wrote: > bijayant kumar wrote: > > > >--- Mark Sapiro wrote: > > > >> Are you sure it isn't the other way around? When > you > >> have > >> > >> add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom1.com') > >> add_virtualhost('lists.bijayant.com', 'dom2.com') > >> > >> The second entry effectively replaces the first > >> because what they do is > >> add entries to a Python dictionary (a hash > table). > >> The first argument > >> is the key and the second is the value. So the > first > >> above makes an > >> entry with key 'lists.bijayant.com' and value > >> 'dom1.com' and the > >> second replaces the value for key > >> 'lists.bijayant.com' with 'dom2.com' > > > >I am not sure about this functionality of python, > but > >what you are saying seems to right. After this > >explanation, it is little bit clear to me now why > the > >second domain is taking the previous value. But i > dont > >have any other option because i have to use only > one > >url i.e 'lists.bijayant.com'. So all the lists > created > >have to take the same url 'lists.bijayant.com'. > > > In that case, every list you create from the web > will have the same > value for host_name and the data/virtual-mailman > entries will have > that domain. If it is wrong, you will need to change > it via the web > and then run bin/genaliases to rebuild > data/virtual-mailman. > > Otherwise, you can create lists with bin/newlist and > specify the > host_name with the -e/--emailhost option. > > But, if all lists have the same web domain why do > you want them to have > different email domains? The listnames have to be > unique anyway, so > why not just have them all in your primary email > domain and not bother > with additional domains? > Your suggestion is very good, but i cant have same email domain for every list. I dont have choice because our clients want lists in their respective email domain only :). So i have to follow the command line options for creating the lists, it is working great without any problem. Thanks for your tremendous support to sort out my problem. > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is > for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use > your sense - B. Dylan > > Bijayant Kumar Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com From lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl Fri May 9 07:46:08 2008 From: lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl (lists.mailman-users at duinheks.nl) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 07:46:08 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with subscribe Message-ID: <20080509054918.66D88204988@duinheks.nl> Hallo Barry, Op donderdag 08 mei 2008 schreef Barry Finkel aan Mailman-Users at python.org: >> When I send a message to duinheks-test-subscribe, the request >> does not arrive in mailman, but produces the following in the >> error log: >> May 08 21:47:51 2008 (3636) SHUNTING: >> 1210276071.4968121+a7b07b7c3e9162f8487f34b404c47109de1dd745 BF> A search of the list archives shows that this is a 2.1.10 bug BF> for which Mark Sapiro has released a patch. I *thought* I had read something about it, but coud not find it anymore. Maybe because it was the end of a log hot day :) It is working now. Thank you very much! Groeten, Hans. jdh punt beekhuizen bij duinheks punt nl --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5/080305 * Origin: The Wizard is using MBSE/Linux (2:280/1018) From honneus at cisco.com Fri May 9 20:35:59 2008 From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus)) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 14:35:59 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Programmatic Subscription Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D86C6629@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Hi, When a user subscribes or unsubscribes from a mailing list, they are sent an email confirmation and must click a link on the web interface or reply to the email to confirm their subscription/removal. One of our engineers is creating a portlet on a web application, and what he wants to do is allow the user to be immediately subscribed as soon as they click a link. Is there a way to configure Mailman so that a user is immediately subscribed or removed without the confirmation process? Alternatively, if we were to write some custom code on our application, could we simply call the subscribe cgi script, and then send the confirmation request from the application without asking the user for further input? Please let me know if this is a sound approach. Thanks, Bill From jeffs at tolisgroup.com Fri May 9 20:57:34 2008 From: jeffs at tolisgroup.com (Jeff Shepherd) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 11:57:34 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Programmatic Subscription In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D86C6629@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> References: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D86C6629@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Message-ID: <48249E9E.9030502@tolisgroup.com> Hi Bill, While I cannot provide insight on how to do this, I wonder why you would want to bypass the confirmation in the first place. The problem with bypassing that is that I can then subscribe several people to your list without confirming they are the ones who in-fact wanted to be subscribed. I could do this just to annoy people who I dislike. The purpose of the confirmation is to ensure that this doesn't happen. I don't think bypassing it is a very good idea. -Jeff Bill Honneus (honneus) wrote: > Hi, > > When a user subscribes or unsubscribes from a mailing list, they are > sent an email confirmation and must click a link on the web interface or > reply to the email to confirm their subscription/removal. One of our > engineers is creating a portlet on a web application, and what he wants > to do is allow the user to be immediately subscribed as soon as they > click a link. Is there a way to configure Mailman so that a user is > immediately subscribed or removed without the confirmation process? > Alternatively, if we were to write some custom code on our application, > could we simply call the subscribe cgi script, and then send the > confirmation request from the application without asking the user for > further input? > > Please let me know if this is a sound approach. > > Thanks, > > Bill > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list > Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jeffs%40tolisgroup.com > > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp > From honneus at cisco.com Fri May 9 21:07:54 2008 From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus)) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 15:07:54 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Programmatic Subscription In-Reply-To: <48249E9E.9030502@tolisgroup.com> Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D86C6650@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Hi Jeff, The reason we want to do this is because we want to control the subscriptions to our mailing list interface through our application. We disable subscriptions and unsubscriptions by email, so the only way that users can join is through our application interface. We would only allow users who have signed on through the application to subscribe, so they would have already verified themselves. Hope this clarifies the reason. Regards, Bill -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Shepherd [mailto:jeffs at tolisgroup.com] Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 2:58 PM To: Bill Honneus (honneus) Cc: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Programmatic Subscription Hi Bill, While I cannot provide insight on how to do this, I wonder why you would want to bypass the confirmation in the first place. The problem with bypassing that is that I can then subscribe several people to your list without confirming they are the ones who in-fact wanted to be subscribed. I could do this just to annoy people who I dislike. The purpose of the confirmation is to ensure that this doesn't happen. I don't think bypassing it is a very good idea. -Jeff Bill Honneus (honneus) wrote: > Hi, > > When a user subscribes or unsubscribes from a mailing list, they are > sent an email confirmation and must click a link on the web interface > or reply to the email to confirm their subscription/removal. One of > our engineers is creating a portlet on a web application, and what he > wants to do is allow the user to be immediately subscribed as soon as > they click a link. Is there a way to configure Mailman so that a user > is immediately subscribed or removed without the confirmation process? > Alternatively, if we were to write some custom code on our > application, could we simply call the subscribe cgi script, and then > send the confirmation request from the application without asking the > user for further input? > > Please let me know if this is a sound approach. > > Thanks, > > Bill > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list > Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jeffs%40tolisgrou > p.com > > Security Policy: > http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.h > tp > From brad at python.org Fri May 9 21:17:39 2008 From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 14:17:39 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Programmatic Subscription In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D86C6629@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> References: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D86C6629@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Message-ID: <4824A353.5050305@python.org> Bill Honneus (honneus) wrote: > When a user subscribes or unsubscribes from a mailing list, they are > sent an email confirmation and must click a link on the web interface or > reply to the email to confirm their subscription/removal. One of our > engineers is creating a portlet on a web application, and what he wants > to do is allow the user to be immediately subscribed as soon as they > click a link. Is there a way to configure Mailman so that a user is > immediately subscribed or removed without the confirmation process? It's easy enough to do with the command-line tools, if you know what you're doing. > Alternatively, if we were to write some custom code on our application, > could we simply call the subscribe cgi script, and then send the > confirmation request from the application without asking the user for > further input? > > Please let me know if this is a sound approach. I would strongly encourage you folks to *NOT* do this. It's so easy to abuse these kinds of systems and sign someone up for a billion different mailing lists. There's a reason why the default with Mailman is so that the user has to confirm their subscription request. -- Brad Knowles Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team, & Co-moderator of the mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists From brad at python.org Fri May 9 21:35:57 2008 From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 14:35:57 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Programmatic Subscription In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D86C6650@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> References: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D86C6650@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Message-ID: <4824A79D.1040309@python.org> Bill Honneus (honneus) wrote: > The reason we want to do this is because we want to control the > subscriptions to our mailing list interface through our application. We > disable subscriptions and unsubscriptions by email, so the only way that > users can join is through our application interface. We would only > allow users who have signed on through the application to subscribe, so > they would have already verified themselves. Unless I'm missing something here, this process can still be abused by remote parties to subscribe others to your list, and that's the key danger. -- Brad Knowles Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team, & Co-moderator of the mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists From mark at msapiro.net Fri May 9 21:39:19 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 12:39:19 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Programmatic Subscription In-Reply-To: <4824A353.5050305@python.org> Message-ID: Brad Knowles wrote: >Bill Honneus (honneus) wrote: > >> When a user subscribes or unsubscribes from a mailing list, they are >> sent an email confirmation and must click a link on the web interface or >> reply to the email to confirm their subscription/removal. One of our >> engineers is creating a portlet on a web application, and what he wants >> to do is allow the user to be immediately subscribed as soon as they >> click a link. Is there a way to configure Mailman so that a user is >> immediately subscribed or removed without the confirmation process? > >It's easy enough to do with the command-line tools, if you know what you're >doing. Or see some of the results from . >> Alternatively, if we were to write some custom code on our application, >> could we simply call the subscribe cgi script, and then send the >> confirmation request from the application without asking the user for >> further input? >> >> Please let me know if this is a sound approach. > >I would strongly encourage you folks to *NOT* do this. It's so easy to >abuse these kinds of systems and sign someone up for a billion different >mailing lists. > >There's a reason why the default with Mailman is so that the user has to >confirm their subscription request. I see in another reply that you plan on verifying the user via your web application before the subscribe/unsubscribe. This is fine, but you have to be sure that you protect against a user viewing the html source of your request form and figuring out how to post a (un)subscribe request to your application. In other words, you have to protect against one validated user (un)subscribing other users. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From bergenpeak at comcast.net Fri May 9 22:03:03 2008 From: bergenpeak at comcast.net (bergenpeak at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 14:03:03 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Programmatic Subscription In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D86C6650@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> References: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D86C6650@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Message-ID: <4824ADF7.8080605@comcast.net> I had a similar need where someone should be able to subscribe or unsubscribe without having to do any sort of admin or user confirmation. I also had a need to make it easy for a user to subscribe to 25-100 lists without having to manually subscribe to 25-100 individual lists. Note that there's a way to configure mailman so a user can subscribe without confirmation but that's not true on unsubscribe. Going on vacation and having to unsub from 100 lists and also confirm for 100 lists was too complicated and the mail admin (me) would be doing these by hand. I also have a closed user community so don't need to worry about malicious sub or unsub requests. So, here's what I did: 1) Wrote code to process all mail_list-requests. Basically, this code replaces the work mailman does on request processing. So in /etc/aliases, each group has an entry "maillist-request | /blah/request-processing.pl" 2) This code extracts who the mail is from, subject, and what list the mail was sent to and with this information calls remove_member or add_member directly. 3) I crafted a web page with all the groups listed as a unqiue url. If the user clicks on the link, it pre-opens a mail message with the right target address for that group and a subject of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe". All they need to do is hit send and the code gets delivered to the mailman server where the code sitting behind the "maillist-request" adds or removes the user. Folks could sub or unsub 10s of lists in a few seconds. 4) If they wanted on all lists, I created a fictitious group called "maillist-all" which was also a url on the web page. When mail to that alias hit the maillist-request code, it would detect the mail being sent to maillist "all" and then do the remove_member or add_member for this user from all individual mail lists. I'd expect you could have the URL instead hit some cgi-bin code which would call the add or remove user directly, but the mail approach was fine for my needs. Bill Honneus (honneus) wrote: > Hi Jeff, > > The reason we want to do this is because we want to control the > subscriptions to our mailing list interface through our application. We > disable subscriptions and unsubscriptions by email, so the only way that > users can join is through our application interface. We would only > allow users who have signed on through the application to subscribe, so > they would have already verified themselves. > > Hope this clarifies the reason. > > Regards, > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Shepherd [mailto:jeffs at tolisgroup.com] > Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 2:58 PM > To: Bill Honneus (honneus) > Cc: mailman-users at python.org > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Programmatic Subscription > > Hi Bill, > While I cannot provide insight on how to do this, I wonder why you would > want to bypass the confirmation in the first place. The problem with > bypassing that is that I can then subscribe several people to your list > without confirming they are the ones who in-fact wanted to be > subscribed. I could do this just to annoy people who I dislike. > > The purpose of the confirmation is to ensure that this doesn't happen. > I don't think bypassing it is a very good idea. > > -Jeff > > > Bill Honneus (honneus) wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> When a user subscribes or unsubscribes from a mailing list, they are >> sent an email confirmation and must click a link on the web interface >> or reply to the email to confirm their subscription/removal. One of >> our engineers is creating a portlet on a web application, and what he >> wants to do is allow the user to be immediately subscribed as soon as >> > > >> they click a link. Is there a way to configure Mailman so that a user >> > > >> is immediately subscribed or removed without the confirmation process? >> Alternatively, if we were to write some custom code on our >> application, could we simply call the subscribe cgi script, and then >> send the confirmation request from the application without asking the >> user for further input? >> >> Please let me know if this is a sound approach. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Bill >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> Mailman-Users mailing list >> Mailman-Users at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users >> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py >> Searchable Archives: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ >> Unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jeffs%40tolisgrou >> p.com >> >> Security Policy: >> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.h >> tp >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list > Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bergenpeak%40comcast.net > > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp > > From jeffs at tolisgroup.com Fri May 9 23:26:45 2008 From: jeffs at tolisgroup.com (Jeff Shepherd) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 14:26:45 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Programmatic Subscription In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D86C6650@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> References: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D86C6650@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Message-ID: <4824C195.7070202@tolisgroup.com> Hi Bill, Ah, that actually makes a lot more sense. :-) Now you've got me thinking... :-) -Jeff Bill Honneus (honneus) wrote: > Hi Jeff, > > The reason we want to do this is because we want to control the > subscriptions to our mailing list interface through our application. We > disable subscriptions and unsubscriptions by email, so the only way that > users can join is through our application interface. We would only > allow users who have signed on through the application to subscribe, so > they would have already verified themselves. > > Hope this clarifies the reason. > > Regards, > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Shepherd [mailto:jeffs at tolisgroup.com] > Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 2:58 PM > To: Bill Honneus (honneus) > Cc: mailman-users at python.org > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Programmatic Subscription > > Hi Bill, > While I cannot provide insight on how to do this, I wonder why you would > want to bypass the confirmation in the first place. The problem with > bypassing that is that I can then subscribe several people to your list > without confirming they are the ones who in-fact wanted to be > subscribed. I could do this just to annoy people who I dislike. > > The purpose of the confirmation is to ensure that this doesn't happen. > I don't think bypassing it is a very good idea. > > -Jeff > > > Bill Honneus (honneus) wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> When a user subscribes or unsubscribes from a mailing list, they are >> sent an email confirmation and must click a link on the web interface >> or reply to the email to confirm their subscription/removal. One of >> our engineers is creating a portlet on a web application, and what he >> wants to do is allow the user to be immediately subscribed as soon as >> > > >> they click a link. Is there a way to configure Mailman so that a user >> > > >> is immediately subscribed or removed without the confirmation process? >> Alternatively, if we were to write some custom code on our >> application, could we simply call the subscribe cgi script, and then >> send the confirmation request from the application without asking the >> user for further input? >> >> Please let me know if this is a sound approach. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Bill >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> Mailman-Users mailing list >> Mailman-Users at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users >> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py >> Searchable Archives: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ >> Unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jeffs%40tolisgrou >> p.com >> >> Security Policy: >> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.h >> tp >> >> From roobin at theriver.com Sat May 10 00:33:43 2008 From: roobin at theriver.com (Rueben) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 15:33:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] pass mime types References: Message-ID: <005f01c8b224$bdb2fd50$0700000a@delta> I don't understand your answer. Let me ask it differently. What would the mime types look like if I wanted to allow attachments for PDF and image files? Would it be any different if I wanted to allow html links to other websites? Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Sapiro" To: "Rueben" ; "Mailman-user" Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] pass mime types > Rueben wrote: > >>Under content filtering there is a field labeled: Remove message >>attachments that don't have a matching content type. >> >>In the box I have: >>multipart/mixed >>multipart/alternative >>text/plain >> >>Can someone explain what each of those entries means, and give examples as >>to what kind of files would be affected by each filter? > > > Those entries are the MIME content types that content filtering will > accept. Any message part with a content-type other that those three > will be filtered out. For example, in a message with the following > structure > > multipart/alternative > text/plain > text/html > > The multipart/alternative part will be accepted and it's sub-parts > examined. Of those, only the text/plain part will be accepted and the > text/html part will be removed. > > For this message > > multipart/mixed > multipart/alternative > text/plain > text/html > application/msword > > again, only the text/plain part will be accepted and the text/html and > application/msword parts will be removed. > > For this message > > multipart/related > multipart/alternative > text/plain > text/html > image/jpeg > > nothing will be accepted because the entire multipart/related message > content type is not accepted. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > From mark at msapiro.net Sat May 10 01:15:55 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 16:15:55 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] pass mime types In-Reply-To: <005f01c8b224$bdb2fd50$0700000a@delta> Message-ID: Rueben wrote: >I don't understand your answer. Apparently because you don't understand MIME. You could start at , but that probably isn't the easiest way to learn these things. In my explanation below, indententation is the key. When I wrote for example multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain text/html application/msword I was indication a message with content-type multipart/mixed which consisted of two sub-parts of types multipart/alternative and application/msword, and the multipart/alternative sub-part in turn contained text/plain and text/html alternative sub-parts You may also be interested in which is a list of registered MIME types for various content. >Let me ask it differently. > >What would the mime types look like if I wanted to allow attachments for PDF >and image files? Pass mime types might contain multipart message/rfc822 text/plain image application/pdf Line by line, the reasons are 1. If you don't accept multipart then the only messages you accept will be single part messages which by definition do not have attachments. 2. Accepting message/rfc822 is not manditory, but if someone forwards a message as an attachment, and you want to at least consider the parts of the attached message, you need this. 3. This is to accept plain text message bodies and attachments. 4. This will accept all 'image' content-types. if you want to be more selective you could accept, e.g., just image/jpeg, image/gif and image/png by listing those instead of the blanket 'image' (refer to the media types list referenced above). 5. This will accept PDF. >Would it be any different if I wanted to allow html links to other websites? If you want to allow html parts, you have to add text/html to the above list. I'm not sure what you mean by "html links to other websites". I included two URLs above in this text/plain message. Some MUAs (mail clients) may render these as clickable links. Others may not. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mark Sapiro" >To: "Rueben" ; "Mailman-user" > >Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 10:11 AM >Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] pass mime types > > >> Rueben wrote: >> >>>Under content filtering there is a field labeled: Remove message >>>attachments that don't have a matching content type. >>> >>>In the box I have: >>>multipart/mixed >>>multipart/alternative >>>text/plain >>> >>>Can someone explain what each of those entries means, and give examples as >>>to what kind of files would be affected by each filter? >> >> >> Those entries are the MIME content types that content filtering will >> accept. Any message part with a content-type other that those three >> will be filtered out. For example, in a message with the following >> structure >> >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain >> text/html >> >> The multipart/alternative part will be accepted and it's sub-parts >> examined. Of those, only the text/plain part will be accepted and the >> text/html part will be removed. >> >> For this message >> >> multipart/mixed >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain >> text/html >> application/msword >> >> again, only the text/plain part will be accepted and the text/html and >> application/msword parts will be removed. >> >> For this message >> >> multipart/related >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain >> text/html >> image/jpeg >> >> nothing will be accepted because the entire multipart/related message >> content type is not accepted. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org Sat May 10 11:22:21 2008 From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 10:22:21 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.9: Send output to SMTP server using TLS Message-ID: Hi, Is there any way to set Mailman 2.1.9 to output its messages to a specific SMTP server using TLS? I am doing this now ok, but the message is going over plain SMTP. I want to enforce TLS on that machine, but Mailman is using just plain SMTP. Thanks. Andrew. From cite at incertum.net Sat May 10 17:54:17 2008 From: cite at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 17:54:17 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dealing with multiple charsets (list messages and web archive) Message-ID: <20080510155417.GE23118@mail.incertum.net> Hello world, sometimes living outside of the U.S., or better said, living otside "us-ascii" can be a real pain. Let me explain, considerning a default installation for a list with default language "de". The LC_DESCRIPTIONS dictionary will include: add_language('de', _('German'), 'iso-8859-1') Now users are starting to post to the list and encode their messages in: ISO-8859-1 ISO-8859-15 UTF-8 And ofc, the ISO-encodings will use 8 bit transport encoding as well as QP. This leads to nasty side effect #1: Messages not posted in ISO-88599-1 will contain the list footer in an attachment. When mail gets archived, the HTML header of the archive pages shows the encoding specified in the list preferences, leading to nasty side effect #2: Messages encoded in ISO-8859-15 and UTF-8 will show broken non-ascii symbols. Even worse, since non-ascii characters in message headers may be encoded in a different charset than the one used in the message body, you can end up with a message which show two sorts of broken non-ascii chars (given headers are encoded in ISO-8859-15 and message body in UTF-8). What I'm looking for is a way to: 1. Examine an incoming message and determine wether it contains MIME parts with a content-type of text/plain. 2. Take those parts and do a charset conversion to the lists charset. 3. Add the list footer, header etc. in the lists charset. 4. Attach all parts of the original message which are not test/plain at the end of the message. This way, I could set a lists encoding to "UTF-8" by adding to mm_cfg.py: def _(s): return s add_language('de', _('German'), 'utf-8') del _ Users could post with whatever encoding they prefer, add attachments of any type. The messages sent by Mailman would alway look like: 1. Message sent by user, recoded (if necessary) to UTF-8 2. List footer with UTF-8 encoding 3. Attachments like application/pdf Is there a way to do this? If yes, can archives be rebuilt, too? Ciao Stefan P.S: I don't know if the above is understandable, English is not my first language. Feel free to ask for clarification. -- Stefan F?rster http://www.incertum.net/ Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9 FdI #320: Softwarewartung - Flags putzen, Strukturen nachrichten und Variablen mit ?l auff?llen. (Hans Bonfigt) From mark at msapiro.net Sat May 10 18:04:54 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 09:04:54 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.9: Send output to SMTP server using TLS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Andrew Hodgson wrote: > >Is there any way to set Mailman 2.1.9 to output its messages to a >specific SMTP server using TLS? I am doing this now ok, but the message >is going over plain SMTP. I want to enforce TLS on that machine, but >Mailman is using just plain SMTP. There are two ways to do this. 1) Set up an MTA on the Mailman machine, relay through it to the "specific SMTP server" and let it do the TLS. 2) Modify Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to do TLS. See . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From cite at incertum.net Sat May 10 18:19:53 2008 From: cite at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 18:19:53 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dealing with multiple charsets (list messages and web archive) In-Reply-To: <20080510155417.GE23118@mail.incertum.net> References: <20080510155417.GE23118@mail.incertum.net> Message-ID: <20080510161952.GF23118@mail.incertum.net> Foolow-up to myself: * Stefan F?rster wrote: > sometimes living outside of the U.S., or better said, living otside > "us-ascii" can be a real pain. Let me explain, considerning a default > installation for a list with default language "de". The LC_DESCRIPTIONS > dictionary will include: I've read http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp I still would like to do charset conversion on MIME encapsulated messages. We do our best not to let HTML message trhough to the list address, so we will only deal with text/plain and various binary content types. From mark at msapiro.net Sat May 10 18:57:12 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 09:57:12 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dealing with multiple charsets (list messages and web archive) In-Reply-To: <20080510161952.GF23118@mail.incertum.net> References: <20080510155417.GE23118@mail.incertum.net> <20080510161952.GF23118@mail.incertum.net> Message-ID: <4825D3E8.1040704@msapiro.net> Stefan F?rster wrote: > Foolow-up to myself: > > * Stefan F?rster wrote: >> sometimes living outside of the U.S., or better said, living otside >> "us-ascii" can be a real pain. Let me explain, considerning a default >> installation for a list with default language "de". The LC_DESCRIPTIONS >> dictionary will include: > > I've read > > http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp > > I still would like to do charset conversion on MIME encapsulated > messages. We do our best not to let HTML message trhough to the list > address, so we will only deal with text/plain and various binary > content types. What Mailman version are you using? Do you have problems with messages which are not multipart? Beginning in Mailman 2.1.6, a single part text/plain message should be coerced to Unicode, have headers and footers added as Unicode and then coerced back to the character set of the list (or of the incoming message if that fails). Also, have you tried setting Non-digest options -> scrub_nondigest to Yes? This may not be satisfactory for you, but if it is, it may help with some of your other issues. Also, if your Mailman version is 2.1.5 or older, upgrading may help. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From bill.heath at mail.callsunshine.com Sat May 10 19:01:50 2008 From: bill.heath at mail.callsunshine.com (Bill Heath) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 13:01:50 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe nonfictions duplicated daily Message-ID: I have a situation where approximately 120 unsubscribe notifications for one of my lists are being sent out repeatedly at basically the same time every day. I am very new to the Mailman server and Linux as well. Can anyone provide some guidance on where to look to begin troubleshooting this issue or to a solution to fix the problem? Bill From bill.heath at mail.callsunshine.com Sat May 10 19:19:30 2008 From: bill.heath at mail.callsunshine.com (Bill Heath) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 13:19:30 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe nonfictions duplicated daily In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My apologies, I had the configuration information in my clipboard but forgot to paste it prior to hitting send. I am running mailman 2.1.9, with postfix 2.4.5 on an Ubuntu 7.10 server -----Original Message----- I have a situation where approximately 120 unsubscribe notifications for one of my lists are being sent out repeatedly at basically the same time every day. I am very new to the Mailman server and Linux as well. Can anyone provide some guidance on where to look to begin troubleshooting this issue or to a solution to fix the problem? From mark at msapiro.net Sat May 10 21:15:18 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 12:15:18 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe nonfictions duplicated daily In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bill Heath wrote: >My apologies, I had the configuration information in my clipboard but >forgot to paste it prior to hitting send. > >I am running mailman 2.1.9, with postfix 2.4.5 on an Ubuntu 7.10 server > >-----Original Message----- >I have a situation where approximately 120 unsubscribe notifications for >one of my lists are being sent out repeatedly at basically the same time >every day. > >I am very new to the Mailman server and Linux as well. Can anyone >provide some guidance on where to look to begin troubleshooting this >issue or to a solution to fix the problem? My guess is these notices are being generated by the cron/disabled process which by default runs daily at 9:00 am. Normally, this process detects members whose delivery has been disabled by bounce and sends them the periodic reminder or ultimately unsubscribes them after enough notices have been sent. It seems that something is wrong here such that the unsubscribe notice to the admin is sent without the member actually being removed. There is a bug not fixed until 2.1.10. If a member's email address local_part was all lower case, but the domain was mixed/upper case (e.g. janedoe at Example.com), the member would be added with the key in member data not being all lower case. This could cause all sorts of problems including (I think) not actually removing the member when the member should be removed. I think that might be what's happening here. Do the addresses reported as being unsubscribed have all lower case local_part and mixed or upper case domain? Does bin/list_members without the -p option report members with upper case in the domain? If so, I think that's the issue. The problem is that it will be tricky to fix. If you can confirm that this is the case, I can work up a script that will fix it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From cite at incertum.net Sat May 10 21:41:42 2008 From: cite at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 21:41:42 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dealing with multiple charsets (list messages and web archive) In-Reply-To: <4825D3E8.1040704@msapiro.net> References: <20080510155417.GE23118@mail.incertum.net> <20080510161952.GF23118@mail.incertum.net> <4825D3E8.1040704@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <20080510194142.GA4503@mail.incertum.net> * Mark Sapiro wrote: > Stefan F?rster wrote: >> I've read >> >> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp >> >> I still would like to do charset conversion on MIME encapsulated >> messages. We do our best not to let HTML message trhough to the list >> address, so we will only deal with text/plain and various binary >> content types. > > What Mailman version are you using? 2.1.9 > Do you have problems with messages which are not multipart? If message headers contain unencoded special chars. I have just applied additional rules in our content filter to iron that out, it's not really mailmans fault. > Beginning in Mailman 2.1.6, a single part text/plain message should be > coerced to Unicode, have headers and footers added as Unicode and then > coerced back to the character set of the list (or of the incoming > message if that fails). This behaviour leaves me with UTF-8 as my only choice, because the default encoding for "German" can't even represent a currency sign properly. > Also, have you tried setting Non-digest options -> scrub_nondigest to > Yes? This may not be satisfactory for you, but if it is, it may help > with some of your other issues. After converting the message catalogues (messages/de/mailman.po) and the template files (templates/de/*.{html,txt}) as described in README-I18N.en and migrating the lists in question, rebuilding the web archives etc., I've switched that option on. The result is somewhat unexpected: The message translation for '-------------- next part --------------' is '-------------- n"achster Teil --------------' where the '"a" represents an "Umlaut", "?". This "?" gets encoded wrongly in the mail sent out, typcial "two chars" error ("?~" or soemthing like that). Interstingly, the next line talking about binary data which got cut out, which does _also_ include an "?" gets encoded correctly. Can you give me any hint on this? Replacement is done in Scrubber.py, line 392 here: # Now join the text and set the payload sep = _('-------------- next part --------------\n') replace_payload_by_text(msg, sep.join(text), charset) Do you think there might be other occurances of wrongly encoded strings read in from the message catalogue or the templates? Ciao Stefan P.S: I can upgrade from 2.1.9 if you think that it will make debugging easier. -- Stefan F?rster http://www.incertum.net/ Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9 Am Anfang war sie mein M?uschen, aber langsam werden die Tiere immer gr??er. From mark at msapiro.net Sat May 10 22:12:59 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 13:12:59 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dealing with multiple charsets (list messages and web archive) In-Reply-To: <20080510194142.GA4503@mail.incertum.net> Message-ID: Stefan F?rster wrote: >* Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> Also, have you tried setting Non-digest options -> scrub_nondigest to >> Yes? This may not be satisfactory for you, but if it is, it may help >> with some of your other issues. > >After converting the message catalogues (messages/de/mailman.po) and >the template files (templates/de/*.{html,txt}) as described in >README-I18N.en and migrating the lists in question, rebuilding the web >archives etc., I've switched that option on. > >The result is somewhat unexpected: The message translation for > >'-------------- next part --------------' > >is > >'-------------- n"achster Teil --------------' > >where the '"a" represents an "Umlaut", "??". This "??" gets encoded >wrongly in the mail sent out, typcial "two chars" error ("??~" or >soemthing like that). Interstingly, the next line talking about binary >data which got cut out, which does _also_ include an "??" gets encoded >correctly. Can you give me any hint on this? Replacement is done in >Scrubber.py, line 392 here: > > # Now join the text and set the payload > sep = _('-------------- next part --------------\n') > replace_payload_by_text(msg, sep.join(text), charset) The above problem is a bug fixed in 2.1.10. The fixed code is: # Now join the text and set the payload sep = _('-------------- next part --------------\n') # The i18n separator is in the list's charset. Coerce it to the # message charset. try: s = unicode(sep, lcset, 'replace') sep = s.encode(charset, 'replace') except (UnicodeError, LookupError, ValueError, AssertionError): pass replace_payload_by_text(msg, sep.join(text), charset) >Do you think there might be other occurances of wrongly encoded >strings read in from the message catalogue or the templates? Not that I'm aware of. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From cite at incertum.net Sat May 10 22:34:41 2008 From: cite at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=F6rster?=) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 22:34:41 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dealing with multiple charsets (list messages and web archive) In-Reply-To: References: <20080510194142.GA4503@mail.incertum.net> Message-ID: <20080510203441.GH4503@mail.incertum.net> * Mark Sapiro wrote: > Stefan F?rster wrote: >> # Now join the text and set the payload >> sep = _('-------------- next part --------------\n') >> replace_payload_by_text(msg, sep.join(text), charset) > > The above problem is a bug fixed in 2.1.10. The fixed code is: > > # Now join the text and set the payload > sep = _('-------------- next part --------------\n') > # The i18n separator is in the list's charset. Coerce it to the > # message charset. > try: > s = unicode(sep, lcset, 'replace') > sep = s.encode(charset, 'replace') > except (UnicodeError, LookupError, ValueError, > AssertionError): > pass > replace_payload_by_text(msg, sep.join(text), charset) Works like a charm, thanks. >> Do you think there might be other occurances of wrongly encoded >> strings read in from the message catalogue or the templates? > > Not that I'm aware of. So, now that I have a temporary fix - how can I recompose a message and sort the attachments? I don't mind if I have to code this myself, I would just appreciate a hint on where to start. For now, a single algorithm like (pseudo code): ,----[ resort message parts ] | init list_of_text_parts = empty; | init list_of_NON_text_parts = empty; | init new_message = empty; | | for part in msg.walk(); | if part.get_content_type() <> 'text/plain' | list_of_NON_text_parts.add(part); | else | list_of_text_parts.add(part); | | for part in list_of_text_parts.walk(); | message.append(part); | | for part in list_of_NON_text_parts.walk() | message.append(part); `---- would absolutely be sufficient. I'm just not familiar enough with Mailman yet to know exactly where to add this code (I don't speak a single line of Python yet, either, but what I wanna do is not really rocket science). Anyways, any help you could give me on that subject would be greatly appreciated. Ciao Stefan -- Stefan F?rster http://www.incertum.net/ Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9 Heute ist das Gestern von Morgen. Das heute ist die Geburt von Morgen. From bill.heath at mail.callsunshine.com Sun May 11 15:11:21 2008 From: bill.heath at mail.callsunshine.com (Bill Heath) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 09:11:21 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe nonfictions duplicated daily In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: After reviewing the member list, I did not see any of the domains with caps in them, I did however see several entries in the format of user at domain1.com/user2 at domain1.com/user3 at domain1.com. I am suspecting that this is not normal either. After searching in the web interface, they entry is there as well. If I check the unsubscribe option on the membership list and hit submit your changes, I get an response of user at domain1.com/user2 at domain1.com/user3 at domain1.com -- Not subscribed. Is there a way to manually remove these entries from the subscriber database? Bill Heath wrote: >My apologies, I had the configuration information in my clipboard but >forgot to paste it prior to hitting send. > >I am running mailman 2.1.9, with postfix 2.4.5 on an Ubuntu 7.10 server > >-----Original Message----- >I have a situation where approximately 120 unsubscribe notifications for >one of my lists are being sent out repeatedly at basically the same time >every day. > >I am very new to the Mailman server and Linux as well. Can anyone >provide some guidance on where to look to begin troubleshooting this >issue or to a solution to fix the problem? My guess is these notices are being generated by the cron/disabled process which by default runs daily at 9:00 am. Normally, this process detects members whose delivery has been disabled by bounce and sends them the periodic reminder or ultimately unsubscribes them after enough notices have been sent. It seems that something is wrong here such that the unsubscribe notice to the admin is sent without the member actually being removed. There is a bug not fixed until 2.1.10. If a member's email address local_part was all lower case, but the domain was mixed/upper case (e.g. janedoe at Example.com), the member would be added with the key in member data not being all lower case. This could cause all sorts of problems including (I think) not actually removing the member when the member should be removed. I think that might be what's happening here. Do the addresses reported as being unsubscribed have all lower case local_part and mixed or upper case domain? Does bin/list_members without the -p option report members with upper case in the domain? If so, I think that's the issue. The problem is that it will be tricky to fix. If you can confirm that this is the case, I can work up a script that will fix it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sun May 11 17:33:53 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 08:33:53 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe nonfictions duplicated daily In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bill Heath wrote: >After reviewing the member list, I did not see any of the domains with >caps in them, I did however see several entries in the format of >user at domain1.com/user2 at domain1.com/user3 at domain1.com. I am suspecting >that this is not normal either. That is correct. >After searching in the web interface, >they entry is there as well. If I check the unsubscribe option on the >membership list and hit submit your changes, I get an response of >user at domain1.com/user2 at domain1.com/user3 at domain1.com -- Not subscribed. >Is there a way to manually remove these entries from the subscriber >database? See . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sun May 11 18:55:57 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 09:55:57 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dealing with multiple charsets (list messages and web archive) In-Reply-To: <20080510203441.GH4503@mail.incertum.net> Message-ID: Stefan F?rster wrote: > >So, now that I have a temporary fix - how can I recompose a message >and sort the attachments? I don't mind if I have to code this myself, >I would just appreciate a hint on where to start. For now, a single >algorithm like (pseudo code): > >,----[ resort message parts ] >| init list_of_text_parts = empty; >| init list_of_NON_text_parts = empty; >| init new_message = empty; >| >| for part in msg.walk(); >| if part.get_content_type() <> 'text/plain' >| list_of_NON_text_parts.add(part); >| else >| list_of_text_parts.add(part); >| >| for part in list_of_text_parts.walk(); >| message.append(part); >| >| for part in list_of_NON_text_parts.walk() >| message.append(part); >`---- > >would absolutely be sufficient. I'm just not familiar enough with >Mailman yet to know exactly where to add this code (I don't speak a >single line of Python yet, either, but what I wanna do is not really >rocket science). Anyways, any help you could give me on that subject >would be greatly appreciated. What you have above is too simple, even as pseudo code What you want is more like the attached flatten.py.txt file (.txt added for content filtering). Note that this is far from production quality and probably doesn't even work on some messages. Problems I am aware of are things like - no i18n for canned text strings - signatures will get broken - with multipart/alternative, the text/plain part will be aggregated with the other text/plain parts and the text/html or other alternatives will be separately attached. - text/plain parts without a specified charset will not be aggregated but will be separately attached. This is a difficult issue because many mainstream MUAs will attach an arbitrary .txt attachment without specifying a charset. If you then assume it is say iso-8859-1 and convert it to unicode and in fact it was euc-jp or koi8-r or even utf-8, you can garble it irreversably. flatten.py is written so that it could be installed as is in Mailman as a custom Handler. See . Note that this will not address separate attachment of headers and footers. If the resultant 'flattened' message is multipart for any reason, msg_header and msg_footer will still be attached as separate MIME parts. The basic flow in the process is If this is not a multipart message do nothing. Walk through the message making two lists of elemental parts plain_parts are those text/plain parts with known character set other_parts are the rest. If there were no plain_parts, make a Unicode text part that says so, otherwise convert all the plain_parts to Unicode and string them together with a separator to make a text part. If there were no other_parts make the message a single part text/plain message with the text payload utf-8 encoded, else make a multipart/mixed message with a text/plain part with the text payload utf-8 encoded followed by all the other_parts. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sun May 11 19:19:27 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 10:19:27 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dealing with multiple charsets (list messagesand web archive) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark Sapiro wrote: > >What you want is more like the attached flatten.py.txt file (.txt added >for content filtering). Sorry, I forgot the attachment. Here it is. >Note that this is far from production quality >and probably doesn't even work on some messages. > >Problems I am aware of are things like > >- no i18n for canned text strings > >- signatures will get broken > >- with multipart/alternative, the text/plain part will be aggregated >with the other text/plain parts and the text/html or other >alternatives will be separately attached. > >- text/plain parts without a specified charset will not be aggregated >but will be separately attached. This is a difficult issue because >many mainstream MUAs will attach an arbitrary .txt attachment without >specifying a charset. If you then assume it is say iso-8859-1 and >convert it to unicode and in fact it was euc-jp or koi8-r or even >utf-8, you can garble it irreversably. > >flatten.py is written so that it could be installed as is in Mailman as >a custom Handler. See >. > >Note that this will not address separate attachment of headers and >footers. If the resultant 'flattened' message is multipart for any >reason, msg_header and msg_footer will still be attached as separate >MIME parts. > >The basic flow in the process is > >If this is not a multipart message do nothing. > >Walk through the message making two lists of elemental parts > plain_parts are those text/plain parts with known character set > other_parts are the rest. > >If there were no plain_parts, make a Unicode text part that says so, >otherwise convert all the plain_parts to Unicode and string them >together with a separator to make a text part. > >If there were no other_parts make the message a single part text/plain >message with the text payload utf-8 encoded, else make a >multipart/mixed message with a text/plain part with the text payload >utf-8 encoded followed by all the other_parts. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: flatten.py.txt URL: From cite at incertum.net Sun May 11 20:38:11 2008 From: cite at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 20:38:11 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dealing with multiple charsets (list messages and web archive) In-Reply-To: References: <20080510203441.GH4503@mail.incertum.net> Message-ID: <20080511183811.GJ6815@mail.incertum.net> Hello Mark, first of all, thank you very much for your help. This looks very promising indeed. * Mark Sapiro wrote: > What you want is more like the attached flatten.py.txt file (.txt added > for content filtering). Note that this is far from production quality > and probably doesn't even work on some messages. I will perform a full set of tests then - would have done anyways. Thanks for the warning, though. > Problems I am aware of are things like > > - no i18n for canned text strings Hm, I think I can handle that. After all, you already showed me how to do this ;-) > - signatures will get broken What kind of signatures do you mean? > - with multipart/alternative, the text/plain part will be aggregated > with the other text/plain parts and the text/html or other > alternatives will be separately attached. If this handler is called after MimeDel or Scrubber, there should be no more text/html parts left in the message. But then again, I'm not sure about that yet. Need to do more reading, I'm not sure yet where to add flatten.py. > - text/plain parts without a specified charset will not be aggregated > but will be separately attached. This is a difficult issue because > many mainstream MUAs will attach an arbitrary .txt attachment without > specifying a charset. If you then assume it is say iso-8859-1 and > convert it to unicode and in fact it was euc-jp or koi8-r or even > utf-8, you can garble it irreversably. If a .txt file without encoding is attached, it is always look if the receiver will be able to read the file. I'd say "gzip it". Really. > flatten.py is written so that it could be installed as is in Mailman as > a custom Handler. I will try this out tomorrow. > Note that this will not address separate attachment of headers and > footers. If the resultant 'flattened' message is multipart for any > reason, msg_header and msg_footer will still be attached as separate > MIME parts. After rebuilding the text parts, could we call "decorate" on the message before we attach any other parts? > The basic flow in the process is [very clear explanation cut] I think I'm beginning to like Python. Cheers Stefan -- Stefan F?rster http://www.incertum.net/ Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9 FdI #186: Admin-Handy - Elektronisches W?rgehalsband (Holger K?pke) From mark at msapiro.net Mon May 12 01:30:10 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 16:30:10 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dealing with multiple charsets (list messages and web archive) In-Reply-To: <20080511183811.GJ6815@mail.incertum.net> Message-ID: Stefan F?rster wrote: > >* Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> - signatures will get broken > >What kind of signatures do you mean? PGP and other signed mail. Domain keys and DKIM. >> - with multipart/alternative, the text/plain part will be aggregated >> with the other text/plain parts and the text/html or other >> alternatives will be separately attached. > >If this handler is called after MimeDel or Scrubber, there should be >no more text/html parts left in the message. But then again, I'm not >sure about that yet. Need to do more reading, I'm not sure yet where >to add flatten.py. Scrubber will turn anything into a single plain text message, so calling this handler after Scrubber if scrub_nondigest is Yes will do nothing. The main difference between this handler and Scrubber aside from the fact that Scrubber is more robust is that this handler leaves the 'other parts' attached to the message instead of storing them aside and replacing them with links to the stored parts. The handler could come anywhere between MimeDel and ToDigest, but between MimeDel and Scrubber may make the most sense. >> - text/plain parts without a specified charset will not be aggregated >> but will be separately attached. This is a difficult issue because >> many mainstream MUAs will attach an arbitrary .txt attachment without >> specifying a charset. If you then assume it is say iso-8859-1 and >> convert it to unicode and in fact it was euc-jp or koi8-r or even >> utf-8, you can garble it irreversably. > >If a .txt file without encoding is attached, it is always look if the >receiver will be able to read the file. I'd say "gzip it". Really. So if I understand you correctly, you could assume per standards that any text/plain part without a charset is us-ascii (or any other particular charset). This could be accomplished by changing if part.get_content_type() == 'text/plain' and part.get_content_charset(): to if part.get_content_type() == 'text/plain': and cset = part.get_content_charset() to cset = part.get_content_charset('us-ascii') >> flatten.py is written so that it could be installed as is in Mailman as >> a custom Handler. > >I will try this out tomorrow. > >> Note that this will not address separate attachment of headers and >> footers. If the resultant 'flattened' message is multipart for any >> reason, msg_header and msg_footer will still be attached as separate >> MIME parts. > >After rebuilding the text parts, could we call "decorate" on the >message before we attach any other parts? That's a bit tricky. If you were to do this, then after calling Decorate.process, you would need to set msgdata['nodecorate'] = True so that when Decorate is called again by SMTPDirect, it will just return. Also, if you are going to call Decorate from this handler, you have a dilema regarding digests. If you call this handler before ToDigest, then every message in the digest is decorated with msg_header and msg_footer in addition to the digest itself being decorated with digest_header and digest_footer. Of course, plain digest messages are scrubbed anyway, so if you do defer this handler until after ToDigest, you only have to be concerned about the MIME digest. You also won't be able to have any personalized substitutions in msg_header or msg_footer because at this point, you aren't decorating individual recipients messages. The bigest problem may be that as flatten.py is written, there is no point at which msg is the plain text message without attachments. You would have to create a text/plain message without the attached parts, pass that message to decorate and then add the other parts to the decorated message. Or possibly easier, you could call Decorate at the beginning before doing anything else, and then flatten the decorated message. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From bill.heath at mail.callsunshine.com Mon May 12 01:58:59 2008 From: bill.heath at mail.callsunshine.com (Bill Heath) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 19:58:59 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe nonfictions duplicated daily In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you, that worked perfectly after I found all the addresses that were causing me problems. Unfortunately every problem email had all valid characters in the email addresses, just not valid address form. Once all the bad addresses were removed, the cron job ran with no errors and I stopped receiving all the unsubscribe notifications. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 11:34 AM To: Bill Heath; mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe nonfictions duplicated daily Bill Heath wrote: >After reviewing the member list, I did not see any of the domains with >caps in them, I did however see several entries in the format of >user at domain1.com/user2 at domain1.com/user3 at domain1.com. I am suspecting >that this is not normal either. That is correct. >After searching in the web interface, >they entry is there as well. If I check the unsubscribe option on the >membership list and hit submit your changes, I get an response of >user at domain1.com/user2 at domain1.com/user3 at domain1.com -- Not subscribed. >Is there a way to manually remove these entries from the subscriber >database? See . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From monia.benmlouka at st.com Mon May 12 11:19:48 2008 From: monia.benmlouka at st.com (Monia BEN MLOUKA) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 11:19:48 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] how senddigests cron are generated & how can I stop it? Message-ID: <016a01c8b411$5342f580$770c9d0a@tun.st.com> Hi, I've just start to monitor a system which implements mailman, and I receive a regular email (every day) from senddigests cron with this body message: You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has been automatically rejected. If you think that your messages are being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at mailman-owner at lists.system.com. There is a traceback attached in the mail : Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ? main() File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 86, in main mlist.send_digest_now() File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 60, in send_digest_now ToDigest.send_digests(self, mboxfp) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in send_digests send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306, in send_i18n_digests msg = scrubber(mlist, msg) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 227, in process url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir, filter_html=False) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 466, in save_attachment fp = open(path, 'w') IOError: [Errno 36] File name too long: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/[too long file name].html' Any ideas about how it's generated and how can I stop it? Thanks in advance for your help! Monia From cite at incertum.net Mon May 12 13:16:25 2008 From: cite at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 13:16:25 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dealing with multiple charsets (list messages and web archive) In-Reply-To: References: <20080511183811.GJ6815@mail.incertum.net> Message-ID: <20080512111625.GC11494@mail.incertum.net> Hello Mark, if you feel this is getting too technical for mailman-users, please let me know. I'd also like to discuss "chunkify" in SMTPDDirect - is the developers list the right place for that? * Mark Sapiro wrote: > Stefan F?rster wrote: >> What kind of signatures do you mean? > PGP and other signed mail. Domain keys and DKIM. While the messages I send to _this_ list do contain valid DomainKyes and DKIM signatures, the mail delivered back to me doesn't verify, for obvious reasons. My servers remove DK(IM) headers at MTA level. Sorry, I don't know how properly to describe this in English: The resulting queue file which gets passed to Mailman does never contain DK(IM) headers. When Mailman injects a message back to the MTA, the MTA adds those headers after the whole message was received. I don't know if this makes any sense to you, but I don't see how flatten.py might brake that. As for PGP or S/MIME signatures, you are right, though. > The handler could come anywhere between MimeDel and ToDigest, but > between MimeDel and Scrubber may make the most sense. I placed it there (the description in the FAQ is wonderfully accurate and easy to follow) and ran some preliminary tests which looked not too bad so far. >> If a .txt file without encoding is attached, it is always look if the >> receiver will be able to read the file. I'd say "gzip it". Really. > > So if I understand you correctly, you could assume per standards that > any text/plain part without a charset is us-ascii (or any other > particular charset). This could be accomplished by changing > > if part.get_content_type() == 'text/plain' and > part.get_content_charset(): > > to > > if part.get_content_type() == 'text/plain': > > and > > cset = part.get_content_charset() > > to > > cset = part.get_content_charset('us-ascii') Actually, I was serious about gzip'ing those files. I implemented it that way. After all, if a MUA is broken enough to not declare a content type, I won't trust it with displaying it's own attachments, either. >> After rebuilding the text parts, could we call "decorate" on the >> message before we attach any other parts? > > > That's a bit tricky. If you were to do this, then after calling > Decorate.process, you would need to set > > msgdata['nodecorate'] = True Yes, I've done that - the code in SMTPDDirect makes it perfectly clear how one has to use Decorate ;) > so that when Decorate is called again by SMTPDirect, it will just > return. Also, if you are going to call Decorate from this handler, you > have a dilema regarding digests. If you call this handler before > ToDigest, then every message in the digest is decorated with > msg_header and msg_footer in addition to the digest itself being > decorated with digest_header and digest_footer. Of course, plain > digest messages are scrubbed anyway, so if you do defer this handler > until after ToDigest, you only have to be concerned about the MIME > digest. > > You also won't be able to have any personalized substitutions in > msg_header or msg_footer because at this point, you aren't decorating > individual recipients messages. > > The bigest problem may be that as flatten.py is written, there is no > point at which msg is the plain text message without attachments. You > would have to create a text/plain message without the attached parts, > pass that message to decorate and then add the other parts to the > decorated message. Or possibly easier, you could call Decorate at the > beginning before doing anything else, and then flatten the decorated > message. I will test calling flatten.py and Decorate.process just before ToOutgoing. Anyways, I was testing three mainstream MUAs (Apple Mail, Thunderbird and the web interface of a popular freemailer), and interstingly enough, those programs DID display a message with added attachment correctly. I.e. they were showing the text/plain part of the message and, without visible boundary, the footer, while making any, say, application/pdf parts accessible via the "Get attachment" functionality - IF the text/plain part and the footer had the same encoding. Let me add - and this is in now way directed to you, this list or Mailman (developers) and not meant to be an insult of any kind - that the current state of electronic mail is really a mess as far as charsets or binary contents are concerned. I do greatly appreciate the time and effort you put into helping me, thank you very much. Cheers Stefan -- Stefan F?rster http://www.incertum.net/ Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9 Nur wer im Dunkeln rumballert trifft immer ins Schwarze. From barry at python.org Mon May 12 13:41:57 2008 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 07:41:57 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dealing with multiple charsets (list messages and web archive) In-Reply-To: <20080512111625.GC11494@mail.incertum.net> References: <20080511183811.GJ6815@mail.incertum.net> <20080512111625.GC11494@mail.incertum.net> Message-ID: <780D9264-A561-44D1-9E97-D029F3BFC926@python.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On May 12, 2008, at 7:16 AM, Stefan F?rster wrote: > I'd also like to discuss "chunkify" in SMTPDDirect - is the developers > list the right place for that? Yes, please! - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBSCgtBnEjvBPtnXfVAQKEQwQAr9q1uCPMDDq1RAGRtDMUrvJGqpqS41nd x9On7nX0rYRVFzDRkr0t74mJ+4fi9ZfuQm0o3OC6ar1QHToUfCtSRiHPKFyISib3 Ye90wyy/aJrElS6Zq5vFqa8uG3TCVUKZLOWWDLm6m9ojg310jMBxniGx4w2u9U5t moOwsL3BHsc= =8AeF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mark at msapiro.net Mon May 12 19:16:19 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 10:16:19 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] how senddigests cron are generated & how can I stopit? In-Reply-To: <016a01c8b411$5342f580$770c9d0a@tun.st.com> Message-ID: Monia BEN MLOUKA wrote: >I've just start to monitor a system which implements mailman, >and I receive a regular email (every day) from senddigests cron with this body message: > >You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has been automatically rejected. If you think that your messages are being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at mailman-owner at lists.system.com. This part of the issue, which isn't the underlying problem, is Mailman's crontab is mailing errors to the 'mailman' user which happens to be the 'mailman' site list. Put a MAILTO=user at example.com at the beginning of the crontab to get these mails sent where you want rather than having them rejected by the mailman list and then maybe receiving the reject. >There is a traceback attached in the mail : > >Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ? > main() > File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 86, in main > mlist.send_digest_now() > File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 60, in send_digest_now > ToDigest.send_digests(self, mboxfp) > File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in send_digests > send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp) > File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306, in send_i18n_digests > msg = scrubber(mlist, msg) > File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 227, in process > url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir, filter_html=False) > File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 466, in save_attachment > fp = open(path, 'w') >IOError: [Errno 36] File name too long: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/[too long file name].html' One list has a message in it's lists//digest.mbox file which has an attached file with this long file name. Depending on your Mailman version and whether the size of the digest.mbox is bigger than digest_size_threshold, the same error and traceback may be in Mailman's error log for each list post. You need to find the offending lists//digest.mbox and edit it to change the too long file name. Since you know the name from the error message, you can probably find the mbox with grep 'piece of long name' lists/*/digest.mbox -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From eshao at andrew.cmu.edu Tue May 13 01:51:51 2008 From: eshao at andrew.cmu.edu (Edwin Shao) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 19:51:51 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments Added to All Messages I Send In-Reply-To: <17ca67550805121649p272db512k158a16db4c872f06@mail.gmail.com> References: <17ca67550805121649p272db512k158a16db4c872f06@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <17ca67550805121651y1dcd7346q9cd3ce6e0ba96060@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, Sorry if this has been asked before. I just spent 4 hours browsing the archive and FAQs and couldn't resolve my question. Every time I send a mail to my list, it appears like this: * *-----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Test-test mailing list Test-test at lists.friedneko.com http://lists.friedneko.com/mailman/listinfo/test-test A file named 'file.txt' is always attached, with the html representation of the body of the message. How do I get rid of the message "-----Inline Attachment Follows-----" and the attachment? I've used my school's Mailman and never had this problem, so I'm not sure what I'm doing incorrectly. Thanks! From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 13 02:14:45 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 17:14:45 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments Added to All Messages I Send In-Reply-To: <17ca67550805121651y1dcd7346q9cd3ce6e0ba96060@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Edwin Shao wrote: > >Sorry if this has been asked before. I just spent 4 hours browsing the >archive and FAQs and couldn't resolve my question. Every time I send a mail >to my list, it appears like this: > >* > >*-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > >_______________________________________________ >Test-test mailing list >Test-test at lists.friedneko.com >http://lists.friedneko.com/mailman/listinfo/test-test > It's in the FAQ. See . >A file named 'file.txt' is always attached, with the html representation of >the body of the message. How do I get rid of the message "-----Inline >Attachment Follows-----" and the attachment? I've used my school's Mailman >and never had this problem, so I'm not sure what I'm doing incorrectly. If you really want to get rid of it completely, go to and remove everything from the msg_footer box and save changes. You may want to do the same with digest_footer on the Digest options page. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From eshao at andrew.cmu.edu Tue May 13 02:19:01 2008 From: eshao at andrew.cmu.edu (Edwin Shao) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 20:19:01 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments Added to All Messages I Send In-Reply-To: References: <17ca67550805121651y1dcd7346q9cd3ce6e0ba96060@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <17ca67550805121719j7e305c5ex1f12f2de81b2f4f3@mail.gmail.com> So, that's what I thought the problem might be, but I use my school's Mailman server as well and they don't have this problem. That is, I can send HTML messages to the list and also have footers enabled. How do I enable that function for my Mailman server? On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Edwin Shao wrote: > > > >Sorry if this has been asked before. I just spent 4 hours browsing the > >archive and FAQs and couldn't resolve my question. Every time I send a > mail > >to my list, it appears like this: > > > >* > > > >*-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Test-test mailing list > >Test-test at lists.friedneko.com > >http://lists.friedneko.com/mailman/listinfo/test-test > > > > > It's in the FAQ. See > . > > > >A file named 'file.txt' is always attached, with the html representation > of > >the body of the message. How do I get rid of the message "-----Inline > >Attachment Follows-----" and the attachment? I've used my school's > Mailman > >and never had this problem, so I'm not sure what I'm doing incorrectly. > > > If you really want to get rid of it completely, go to > and > remove everything from the msg_footer box and save changes. You may > want to do the same with digest_footer on the Digest options page. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 13 02:43:03 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 17:43:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments Added to All Messages I Send In-Reply-To: <17ca67550805121719j7e305c5ex1f12f2de81b2f4f3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Edwin Shao wrote: > >So, that's what I thought the problem might be, but I use my school's >Mailman server as well and they don't have this problem. That is, I can send >HTML messages to the list and also have footers enabled. How do I enable >that function for my Mailman server? If you are sending an HTML message to your school's Mailman list, and the list's content filtering is not stripping the HTML or converting it to plain text and the footer is actually added in the HTML part and not as a separate text/plain part, then the Mailman at your school is somehow patched or modified to provide this function. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From webcoder at cfl.rr.com Tue May 13 06:04:52 2008 From: webcoder at cfl.rr.com (Juston Griggs) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 21:04:52 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Simple subscription? Message-ID: <20080513010456.XEZW28475.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@xalarisaa8d200> Is there a way I can just a single input box to my website for a user to enter their email to subscribe with? Instead of them having to go through the whole process on the normail subscription page? From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 13 03:56:43 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 18:56:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Simple subscription? In-Reply-To: <20080513010456.XEZW28475.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@xalarisaa8d200> Message-ID: Juston Griggs wrote: >Is there a way I can just a single input box to my website for a user to >enter their email to subscribe with? Instead of them having to go through >the whole process on the normail subscription page? See . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From z.szalbot at lc-words.com Tue May 13 07:42:19 2008 From: z.szalbot at lc-words.com (Zbigniew Szalbot) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 07:42:19 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] full personalization and CC field Message-ID: <48292A3B.3090200@lc-words.com> Hello, When full personalization is enabled a message sent to the list is delivered to members with TO field containing a member's address and the CC field containing the list address. Is there a setting to take off the CC address in case of full personalization (that is to only have the TO field present)? Many thanks! -- Zbigniew Szalbot www.lc-words.com From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 13 08:31:28 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 23:31:28 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] full personalization and CC field In-Reply-To: <48292A3B.3090200@lc-words.com> Message-ID: Zbigniew Szalbot wrote: > >When full personalization is enabled a message sent to the list is >delivered to members with TO field containing a member's address >and the CC field containing the list address. Is there a setting to take >off the CC address in case of full personalization (that is to only have >the TO field present)? Many thanks! The only way to not have the list address in a Cc: is to make the list anonymous or set reply_goes_to_list to This List. Otherwise the Cc: to the list is put there intentionally to facilitate replying to the list (via reply-all) since the list address will not be in the normal From:, To: or Reply-To: If you don't want this, you'd have to modify Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py. I recognize that this behavior is not necessarily appropriate for announcement lists, but unless you are willing to make an announcement list anonymous, that's how it is. The problem is that there is no 'announcement list' setting that would enable the code to determine that the Cc: is not appropriate. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From z.szalbot at lc-words.com Tue May 13 09:03:19 2008 From: z.szalbot at lc-words.com (Zbigniew Szalbot) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 09:03:19 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] full personalization and CC field In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48293D37.8000606@lc-words.com> Hello, Mark Sapiro: > The only way to not have the list address in a Cc: is to make the list > anonymous or set reply_goes_to_list to This List. Otherwise the Cc: to > the list is put there intentionally to facilitate replying to the list > (via reply-all) since the list address will not be in the normal > From:, To: or Reply-To: > > If you don't want this, you'd have to modify > Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py. Thank you Mark! I edited this file and - since I am no programmer - I just commented out lines 161, 162, 165-172 and restarted mailman. Initial tests show that the CC header does not get added. I put it on my journal to watch for this file when I update mailman in future. Thank you for your support! -- Zbigniew Szalbot www.lc-words.com From gilmore.126 at osu.edu Tue May 13 20:49:22 2008 From: gilmore.126 at osu.edu (Melinda Gilmore) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 14:49:22 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with aliases Message-ID: <011b01c8b52a$0ef106f0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu> I have been a good girl and have been looking in the archives. But I am missing something here. I cannot get my mailman to update the aliases database. I check the setting in the manual. I am running mailman with postifx. I have looked at the newlist --help and I just cannot get my alias db to update. I hate to have to do this manually. Any guidance would be great. Melinda Gilmore Systems Engineer The Ohio State University Enterprise Messaging/OIT 614-292-4953 From michael_lynn at ml.com Tue May 13 20:59:17 2008 From: michael_lynn at ml.com (Lynn, Michael (A&E)) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 14:59:17 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with aliases In-Reply-To: <011b01c8b52a$0ef106f0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu> Message-ID: Maybe I missed something but - Isn't it just a "/usr/bin/newaliases"? Unless you have some other automation wrapped around the call to newlist - you could easily create an alias: alias newlist='/bin/newlist;/usr/bin/newaliases' This limits your command line options - but will save you a couple keystrokes. You could also schedule a call to newaliases via cron - but that seems like overkill. Mike -----Original Message----- From: mailman-users-bounces+michael_lynn=ml.com at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+michael_lynn=ml.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Melinda Gilmore Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 2:49 PM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with aliases I have been a good girl and have been looking in the archives. But I am missing something here. I cannot get my mailman to update the aliases database. I check the setting in the manual. I am running mailman with postifx. I have looked at the newlist --help and I just cannot get my alias db to update. I hate to have to do this manually. Any guidance would be great. Melinda Gilmore Systems Engineer The Ohio State University Enterprise Messaging/OIT 614-292-4953 ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/michael_lynn%40ml.c om Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp -------------------------------------------------------- This message w/attachments (message) may be privileged, confidential or proprietary, and if you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender, do not use or share it and delete it. Unless specifically indicated, this message is not an offer to sell or a solicitation of any investment products or other financial product or service, an official confirmation of any transaction, or an official statement of Merrill Lynch. Subject to applicable law, Merrill Lynch may monitor, review and retain e-communications (EC) traveling through its networks/systems. The laws of the country of each sender/recipient may impact the handling of EC, and EC may be archived, supervised and produced in countries other than the country in which you are located. This message cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free. This message is subject to terms available at the following link: http://www.ml.com/e-communications_terms/. By messaging with Merrill Lynch you consent to the foregoing. -------------------------------------------------------- From michael_lynn at ml.com Tue May 13 21:01:35 2008 From: michael_lynn at ml.com (Lynn, Michael (A&E)) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 15:01:35 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with aliases In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Woops - stock newlist doesn't add to /etc/aliases automatically... The alias command I suggested won't help. -----Original Message----- From: Lynn, Michael (A&E) Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 2:59 PM To: 'Melinda Gilmore'; mailman-users at python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Help with aliases Maybe I missed something but - Isn't it just a "/usr/bin/newaliases"? Unless you have some other automation wrapped around the call to newlist - you could easily create an alias: alias newlist='/bin/newlist;/usr/bin/newaliases' This limits your command line options - but will save you a couple keystrokes. You could also schedule a call to newaliases via cron - but that seems like overkill. Mike -----Original Message----- From: mailman-users-bounces+michael_lynn=ml.com at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+michael_lynn=ml.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Melinda Gilmore Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 2:49 PM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with aliases I have been a good girl and have been looking in the archives. But I am missing something here. I cannot get my mailman to update the aliases database. I check the setting in the manual. I am running mailman with postifx. I have looked at the newlist --help and I just cannot get my alias db to update. I hate to have to do this manually. Any guidance would be great. Melinda Gilmore Systems Engineer The Ohio State University Enterprise Messaging/OIT 614-292-4953 ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/michael_lynn%40ml.c om Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp -------------------------------------------------------- This message w/attachments (message) may be privileged, confidential or proprietary, and if you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender, do not use or share it and delete it. Unless specifically indicated, this message is not an offer to sell or a solicitation of any investment products or other financial product or service, an official confirmation of any transaction, or an official statement of Merrill Lynch. Subject to applicable law, Merrill Lynch may monitor, review and retain e-communications (EC) traveling through its networks/systems. The laws of the country of each sender/recipient may impact the handling of EC, and EC may be archived, supervised and produced in countries other than the country in which you are located. This message cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free. This message is subject to terms available at the following link: http://www.ml.com/e-communications_terms/. By messaging with Merrill Lynch you consent to the foregoing. -------------------------------------------------------- From jrc at clshost.com Tue May 13 21:09:02 2008 From: jrc at clshost.com (J.R. Constance) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 13:09:02 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unrecognized Bounce Message-ID: I have one mailing list that for every message sent to the list I, as admin, receive the following "Uncaught Bounce Notification": > The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce > format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted > from it. This mailing list has been configured to send all > unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s). > > For more information see: > http://my_website.org/mailman/admin/ascls-co-leaders_my_list.org/ > bounce > > > > From: Mail Delivery Subsystem > Date: May 13, 2008 9:29:30 AM MDT > To: > Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details Clicking on the "For more information" link just takes me to the Bounce config page in the list admin section. I'm not getting any kind of transcript. Looking at the bounce log for this particular email shows the following: > May 13 09:29:26 2008 (21967) bounce message w/no discernable > addresses: <200805131529.m4DFTUVH029147 at tempest.organization.org> > May 13 09:29:26 2008 (21967) forwarding unrecognized, message-id: <200805131529.m4DFTUVH029147 at tempest.organization.org > > My guess here is that for some reason tempest.pvhs.org is sending some kind of response to the list that is getting bounced for whatever reason. I do have several subscribers at that facility, but have not heard that any of them are not receiving the emails from the list. Any ideas on how to I might proceed to figure out why I'm getting this bounce, and therefore maybe figure out how to prevent it? Thanks, J.R. J.R. Constance Rodric Consulting, LLC jrc at rodricon.com http://www.rodricon.com Phone: 720.339.3646 From michael_lynn at ml.com Tue May 13 22:05:20 2008 From: michael_lynn at ml.com (Lynn, Michael (A&E)) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 16:05:20 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with aliases In-Reply-To: <012601c8b52c$4040b4b0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu> Message-ID: Melinda, Maybe instead of manually editing aliases - you can simply regenerate your aliases on a periodic basis. You can use mailman/bin/genaliases to do that... If you place a delimiter in your aliases file, you can use something like the attached script to regenerate your entire /etc/aliases file. --->8--- #!/bin/perl # quick and very dirty alias regenerator # #!/bin/perl $DELIM="#%STARTMMALIASES%"; $GENALIASES='/var/mailman/bin/genaliases -q'; @OUT=`$GENALIASES`; @IN=`cat /etc/aliases`; for (@IN){ chomp; print "$_\n"; last if $_=~/($DELIM)/msg; } for (@OUT) { print "$_"; } $out=`$NEWLIASES`; ---8<--- And simply insert "#%STARTMMALIASES%" into your /etc/aliases just before your mailman aliases. You'll probably want to wrap some error checking around it so you don't clobber your aliases file. Granted... If you've got volumes of lists - it may not make sense to regenerate very often but at least it will be automated. Best, Mike -----Original Message----- From: Melinda Gilmore [mailto:gilmore.126 at osu.edu] Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 3:05 PM To: Lynn, Michael (A&E) Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Help with aliases Thanks for trying, but that is my problem. The instructions I am finding to set it up automatically are not working for me. -----Original Message----- From: Lynn, Michael (A&E) [mailto:michael_lynn at ml.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 3:02 PM To: Melinda Gilmore; mailman-users at python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Help with aliases Woops - stock newlist doesn't add to /etc/aliases automatically... The alias command I suggested won't help. -----Original Message----- From: Lynn, Michael (A&E) Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 2:59 PM To: 'Melinda Gilmore'; mailman-users at python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Help with aliases Maybe I missed something but - Isn't it just a "/usr/bin/newaliases"? Unless you have some other automation wrapped around the call to newlist - you could easily create an alias: alias newlist='/bin/newlist;/usr/bin/newaliases' This limits your command line options - but will save you a couple keystrokes. You could also schedule a call to newaliases via cron - but that seems like overkill. Mike -----Original Message----- From: mailman-users-bounces+michael_lynn=ml.com at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+michael_lynn=ml.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Melinda Gilmore Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 2:49 PM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with aliases I have been a good girl and have been looking in the archives. But I am missing something here. I cannot get my mailman to update the aliases database. I check the setting in the manual. I am running mailman with postifx. I have looked at the newlist --help and I just cannot get my alias db to update. I hate to have to do this manually. Any guidance would be great. Melinda Gilmore Systems Engineer The Ohio State University Enterprise Messaging/OIT 614-292-4953 ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/michael_lynn%40ml.c om Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp -------------------------------------------------------- This message w/attachments (message) may be privileged, confidential or proprietary, and if you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender, do not use or share it and delete it. Unless specifically indicated, this message is not an offer to sell or a solicitation of any investment products or other financial product or service, an official confirmation of any transaction, or an official statement of Merrill Lynch. Subject to applicable law, Merrill Lynch may monitor, review and retain e-communications (EC) traveling through its networks/systems. The laws of the country of each sender/recipient may impact the handling of EC, and EC may be archived, supervised and produced in countries other than the country in which you are located. This message cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free. This message is subject to terms available at the following link: http://www.ml.com/e-communications_terms/. By messaging with Merrill Lynch you consent to the foregoing. -------------------------------------------------------- From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 13 23:16:24 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 14:16:24 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with aliases In-Reply-To: <011b01c8b52a$0ef106f0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu> Message-ID: Melinda Gilmore wrote: >I have been a good girl and have been looking in the archives. But I am >missing something here. I cannot get my mailman to update the aliases >database. I check the setting in the manual. I am running mailman with >postifx. I have looked at the newlist --help and I just cannot get my alias >db to update. I hate to have to do this manually. > >Any guidance would be great. What is the problem? Is Mailman updating data/aliases? If not, do you have MTA = 'Postfix' in mm_cfg.py? If Mailman is updating its data/aliases, but aliases.db is not being updated, Mailman should be running the command defined as POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD (default is '/usr/sbin/postalias') with the path to data/aliases as its argument after it updates data/aliases. What happens when you run bin/newlist. Does it give you a list of aliases to add manually? If so, you are missing the MTA = 'Postfix' in mm_cfg.py. Does bin/newlist give some error? If so, what? See . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 13 23:44:48 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 14:44:48 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unrecognized Bounce In-Reply-To: Message-ID: J.R. Constance wrote: >I have one mailing list that for every message sent to the list I, as >admin, receive the following "Uncaught Bounce Notification": > >> The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce >> format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted >> from it. This mailing list has been configured to send all >> unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s). >> >> For more information see: >> http://my_website.org/mailman/admin/ascls-co-leaders_my_list.org/ >> bounce >> >> >> >> From: Mail Delivery Subsystem >> Date: May 13, 2008 9:29:30 AM MDT >> To: >> Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details > >Clicking on the "For more information" link just takes me to the >Bounce config page in the list admin section. I'm not getting any kind >of transcript. > >Looking at the bounce log for this particular email shows the following: > >> May 13 09:29:26 2008 (21967) bounce message w/no discernable >> addresses: <200805131529.m4DFTUVH029147 at tempest.organization.org> >> May 13 09:29:26 2008 (21967) forwarding unrecognized, message-id: <200805131529.m4DFTUVH029147 at tempest.organization.org >> > > > >My guess here is that for some reason tempest.pvhs.org is sending some >kind of response to the list that is getting bounced for whatever >reason. I do have several subscribers at that facility, but have not >heard that any of them are not receiving the emails from the list. More likely, what is happening is there is a list member whose mail is sent directly or indirectly (after a forward of some kind) to the server at tempest.organization.org. This mail is undeliverable by that server so it is sending some kind of DSN indicating the delivery problem back to the list-bounces address which is exactly what it is supposed to do. Mailman is unable to determine the bouncing address from the DSN which is not surprising if it consists only of the four headers you quoted with no other information in a body or attachment, so Mailman forwards the unrecognized bounce to you. Now it is clear from the bounce log that the message contained at least a Message-Id: header in addition to the four quoted headers. What else is in that message that your MUA is not showing to you? Can you view the raw message source? If your MUA is the same Apple Mail you sent this post with, open the message and select Message -> Raw Source from the View menu and see if that gives you more information. >Any ideas on how to I might proceed to figure out why I'm getting this >bounce, and therefore maybe figure out how to prevent it? You prevent it by removing the offending address from the list. If the above doesn't help find the address, you need to temporarily at least set VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 in mm_cfg.py and then restart Mailman. This will cause each message to be sent individually to each user with envelope from where user at example.com is the member address. Then, when it bounces, both Mailman and you will know what address is bouncing. Note that if you have one and only one list member whose address is in the organization.org domain, you could try temporarily disabling delivery to that member, and if that stops the notices, you've found the undeliverable address. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com Wed May 14 05:10:36 2008 From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (billc) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 22:10:36 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] supress acknowledgment of subscription request? Message-ID: Hi all, Is it possible to supress acknowledgement of subscription requests on a specific list? One list I've maintained for quite a while on another listserv system is for my own use only, collecting addresses of users who subscribe to service on our website. The users come and go, allow their subscriptions to that service to lapse, etc, but I want to keep a cumulative list of them. The way i've been doing it is to auto-subscribe them to a list. They don't need to know that I'm adding them to the list. From what I can see there's no button or checkbox to turn the return email off. Is there a simple way to do so for just one list? Is it possible to set it up such that any email to this one list address - which is fairly long and obscure and has never and will never be published anywhere - will get fully subscribed without confirmation or approval? If it's a lot of trouble i'll just figure out an alternative method, probably dropping them into a database table. -- Bill Christensen billc at greenbuilder.com Green Building Professionals Directory: Sustainable Building Calendar: Green Real Estate: Straw Bale Registry: Books/videos/software: From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 14 05:35:29 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 20:35:29 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] supress acknowledgment of subscription request? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: billc wrote: > >Is it possible to supress acknowledgement of subscription requests on >a specific list? If you subscribe users through the admin Mass Subscribe interface, set "Send welcome messages to new subscribees?" to No. If you subscribe them with bin/add_members, use the --welcome-msg=n (or -w n) option. Both these methods will default to no welcome message if you set send_welcome_msg to No on the General Options page. > From what I can see there's no button or checkbox to turn the return >email off. Is there a simple way to do so for just one list? Is it >possible to set it up such that any email to this one list address - >which is fairly long and obscure and has never and will never be >published anywhere - will get fully subscribed without confirmation >or approval? If you are talking about subscribing people by email as opposed to via the admin or command line interfaces, you have to set send_welcome_msg to No as above, and you also have to set ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = Yes in mm_cfg.py, and then you can set subscribe_policy for the list to None to allow subscribe without confirmation, but it is much better IMO to use the admin or command line interface. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com Wed May 14 09:12:10 2008 From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (billc) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 02:12:10 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] supress acknowledgment of subscription request? Message-ID: At 8:35 PM -0700 5/13/08, Mark Sapiro wrote: >If you are talking about subscribing people by email as opposed to via >the admin or command line interfaces Yes, that's what I was after. The web app in question is on a separate legacy server and has limited capabilities. But in following up on your answer I was able to figure out how to do it with an http call from that box, and it's working perfectly. Thanks. -- Bill Christensen billc at greenbuilder.com Green Building Professionals Directory: Sustainable Building Calendar: Green Real Estate: Straw Bale Registry: Books/videos/software: From khillo100 at hotmail.com Wed May 14 17:31:58 2008 From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 15:31:58 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 47, Issue 55 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hi mailman guys .. my question is, I have a 100,000+ subscribers mailing list, and hosting it with godaddy.com (Celeron 2000, 2 GBs RAM) .. but they only allow 100,000 emails per day for each dedicated server, so I have to buy a new server now, and it's a bit expensive.. I found another cheap service, $30/month dedicated servers and they offer unlimited emails per day.. but its characteristics are a bit low: AMD, 512 MB RAM .. my question is, will mailman with such a huge list which is also rapidly growing work on such server? knowing that I only send 1 email newsletter a day to the list and none of the users can send to the list but me.. another question, is it easy to install mailman manually? cause in godaddy's control panel it's ready to install with 1 click.. but with the new cheap service I have to install it myself.. Thanks for everything mates .. _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch when you're away with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_052008 From brad at python.org Wed May 14 19:49:16 2008 From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 12:49:16 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 47, Issue 55 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <482B261C.1000407@python.org> Khalil Abbas wrote: > my question is, I have a 100,000+ subscribers mailing list, and hosting > it with godaddy.com (Celeron 2000, 2 GBs RAM) .. but they only allow > 100,000 emails per day for each dedicated server, so I have to buy a new > server now, and it's a bit expensive.. I found another cheap service, > $30/month dedicated servers and they offer unlimited emails per day.. but > its characteristics are a bit low: AMD, 512 MB RAM .. > > my question is, will mailman with such a huge list which is also rapidly > growing work on such server? knowing that I only send 1 email newsletter > a day to the list and none of the users can send to the list but me.. We try to answer all these kinds of questions in the Mailman FAQ Wizard entry 1.15 at . However, your specific case may need a bit more explanation. If you read through the various FAQ entries regarding performance, you'll see that there are some critical factors. Pay special attention to FAQ 4.11 at , and the stuff down in section 6. One critical factor is MTA performance. You need to be running the right MTA in the right configuration, if you're going to be doing that kind of traffic. This has knock-on requirements for memory, disk I/O capacity, DNS cache performance and location, etc.... Another critical factor is Mailman lock, pickle, and queue contention. With a large list, all incoming and outgoing messages are processed in single-threaded mode, because there's just one pickle for the list which has to be locked during these kinds of operations, preventing any other list operations from occurring at the same time. There's also on-disk queue contention, especially as directory sizes get large. Here, you're going to want a filesystem that incorporates an internal directory hashing scheme (e.g., SGI XFS). You can get around the pickle contention by creating a number of smaller sub-lists, all of which are subscribed to a higher-level "umbrella" list. All traffic to an individual sub-list will be processed sequentially, but traffic between sublists can be processed in parallel. An ideal breakdown for sub-list size would probably be something between the natural logarithm and the square-root of the total number of subscribers you have. For 100,000 subscribers, that would be somewhere between 11 and 316 sub-lists. For really advanced stuff, you might want to look at splitting the Mailman queues and running multiple queue runners for each. The documentation for this stuff is *not* found in the FAQ or the official written documentation, and FAQ 4.75 won't help you since you're not load-balancing across multiple servers. The only documentation for setting up queue slices is found in the Mailman mm_cfg.py file, so you had better be pretty comfortable with this kind of stuff. All that said, I would be surprised if a low-end system like this could reasonably keep up with such a large list (see that FAQ Wizard entry mentioned above and pay particular attention to the articles that it links to for the larger sites). On the other hand, if you can get it to work, I'd love to hear about it. If you want to get a sense of what kind of hardware we use for handling the mail for python.org (including all our mailing lists), see FAQ 1.15 (mentioned above), FAQ 1.24 at , and FAQ 4.56 at . > another question, is it easy to install mailman manually? cause in > godaddy's control panel it's ready to install with 1 click.. but with the > new cheap service I have to install it myself.. It's about as easy as any software I've ever installed, but then I've been doing this sort of thing for nearly twenty years. So, I'm not sure I'm the right person to be answering your "ease-of-installation" questions. -- Brad Knowles Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team, & Co-moderator of the mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com Wed May 14 21:54:04 2008 From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (billc) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 14:54:04 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics Message-ID: Where can I find out more about how to use Topics? Nothing much came up in the FAQ. Thanks -- Bill Christensen billc at greenbuilder.com Green Building Professionals Directory: Sustainable Building Calendar: Green Real Estate: Straw Bale Registry: Books/videos/software: From honneus at cisco.com Thu May 15 01:56:14 2008 From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus)) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 19:56:14 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Join Email Notification Template Question Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8725D79@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Hi, The following below is the email I get when I join my 'Test' mailing list that I created from my mailman installation. Since I don't want my users to click on a link to confirm, what I would like to do is remove the link below so that the emails that go out to my users don't include the hyperlink (or supporting text of 'Or visit this web page') as an option. Is there a template that I could modify to achieve this or do I need to change a Python script somewhere? Thanks much! Bill ********************* Mailing list subscription confirmation notice for mailing list Test We have received a request from myAddress at yahoo.com for subscription of your email address, "myAddress at yahoo.com ", to the test at my.domain.com mailing list. To confirm that you want to be added to this mailing list, simply reply to this message, keeping the Subject: header intact. Or visit this web page: http://157226-myhostname.domain.com/mailman/confirm/test/60c72899e468340 92e001db66d6743017f00b7b5 Or include the following line -- and only the following line -- in a message to test-request at my.domain.com : confirm 60c72899e46834092e001db66d6743017f00b7b5 Note that simply sending a `reply' to this message should work from most mail readers, since that usually leaves the Subject: line in the right form (additional "Re:" text in the Subject: is okay). If you do not wish to be subscribed to this list, please simply disregard this message. If you think you are being maliciously subscribed to the list, or have any other questions, send them to test-owner at my.domain.com . From rclemings at gmail.com Thu May 15 06:12:43 2008 From: rclemings at gmail.com (Russell Clemings) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 21:12:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] content filtering and blank messages (again) Message-ID: I've search the archives and I must be missing something, so if this is a stupid question I apologize. But I'm having endless trouble getting Mailman to convert messages sent as HTML only into plain text. It's sending an empty message. The fixes discussed in past threads on this subject aren't working -- or else I'm not implementing them correctly. What follows are the content filtering settings, followed by a cc of a test message I sent to the list as HTML only, followed by what Mailman sent out after content filtering. The latter has no message body except the standard footer. I disguised all of the emails and other identifying information but I hope it's still understandable. Thanks in advance for any help. rac --- CONTENT FILTERING SETTINGS: Should Mailman filter the content of list traffic according to the settings below? Yes Remove message attachments that have a matching content type. (Blank) Remove message attachments that don't have a matching content type. Leave this field blank to skip this filter test. text multipart/mixed multipart/alternative multipart/related message/rfc822 text/html text/plain Remove message attachments that have a matching filename extension. (Blank) Remove message attachments that don't have a matching filename extension. Leave this field blank to skip this filter test. (Blank) Should Mailman collapse multipart/alternative to its first part content? Yes Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text? This conversion happens after MIME attachments have been stripped. Yes Action to take when a message matches the content filtering rules. Forward to List Owner ======== CC OF MESSAGE AS IT WAS SENT TO MAILMAN: Received: from my.isps.mx.server ([xx.xx.xx.xx]) by alnrmxc14.isps.mx.server (alnrmxc14) with ESMTP id <20080515034531a1400509ste>; Thu, 15 May 2008 03:45:31 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [xx.xx.xx.xx] Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([71.195.187.118]) by my.isps.mx.server with isps id RflV1Z0062ZiHyX8M00000; Thu, 15 May 2008 03:45:31 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=LIYwtywzrmFXcuGVuBcA:9 a=Fnt7OvYJGKwTYi23R0GNqJl9OAIA:4 a=AfD3MYMu9mQA:10 Message-ID: <482BB1DB.3010305 at mydomain.com> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 20:45:31 -0700 From: Me User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mailman-list at mydomain.com, my_email at address.com Subject: html mail test Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

html mail test



======== MESSAGE SENT BY MAILMAN AFTER CONTENT FILTERING: Delivered-To: my_other_email at address.com Received: by xx.xx.xx.xx with SMTP id c10cs50615fga; Wed, 14 May 2008 20:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by xx.xxx.xx.x with SMTP id b1mr1944460waa.165.1210823147551; Wed, 14 May 2008 20:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from server1.mydomain.com (server1.mydomain.com [xxx.xx.xxx.xxx]) by mx.address.com with ESMTP id g25si4319230wag.4.2008.05.14.20.45.45; Wed, 14 May 2008 20:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (address.com: domain of mailman-list-bounces at mydomain.com designates xxx.xx.xxx.xxx as permitted sender) client-ip=xxx.xx.xxx.xxx; Authentication-Results: mx.address.com; spf=pass (address.com: domain of mailman-list-bounces at mydomain.com designates xxx.xx.xxx.xxx as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mailman-list-bounces at mydomain.com Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=server1.mydomain.com) by server1.mydomain.com with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JwUPZ-0000sX-JQ for my_other_email at address.com; Wed, 14 May 2008 23:45:45 -0400 Received: from my.isps.mx.server ([76.96.30.40]) by server1.mydomain.com with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JwUPP-0000Uu-SR for mailman-list at mydomain.com; Wed, 14 May 2008 23:45:44 -0400 Received: from my.isps.mx.server ([76.96.30.11]) by my.isps.mx.server with isps id RerV1Z0050EPchoA403e00; Thu, 15 May 2008 03:45:33 +0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([71.195.187.118]) by my.isps.mx.server with isps id RflV1Z0062ZiHyX8M00000; Thu, 15 May 2008 03:45:31 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=LIYwtywzrmFXcuGVuBcA:9 a=Fnt7OvYJGKwTYi23R0GNqJl9OAIA:4 a=AfD3MYMu9mQA:10 Message-ID: <482BB1DB.3010305 at mydomain.com> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 20:45:31 -0700 From: Me User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: mailman-list at mydomain.com, my_email at address.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.9 X-Spam-Score: 9 X-Spam-Bar: / X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Antivirus-Scanner: ClamAV found no viruses but be safe and do your own scans MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9.cp2 Subject: [Mailman-list] html mail test X-BeenThere: mailman-list at mydomain.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mailman-list discussion list List-Id: Mailman-list discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mailman-list-bounces at mydomain.com Errors-To: mailman-list-bounces at mydomain.com X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server1.mydomain.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - address.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - mydomain.com _______________________________________________ Mailman-list mailing list mailman-list at mydomain.com To manage your subscription or unsubscribe: http://lists.mydomain.com/mailman/listinfo/Mailman-list (END) From SmithMm at tblc.org Thu May 15 14:20:20 2008 From: SmithMm at tblc.org (Matt Smith) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 08:20:20 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] undeliverable email on new list Message-ID: <69FDF3BECCCBAB41ABBCD23E23585294051DF58D@EXCHANGE.tblc.local> Hello, I cant figure out why a newly created list creates errors when trying to post. Here is an example error that comes from our exchange 2003 system. Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients. Subject: test from matt Sent: 5/14/2008 4:05 PM The following recipient(s) could not be reached: flaconfcom at lists.tblc.org on 5/14/2008 4:05 PM The e-mail account does not exist at the organization this message was sent to. Check the e-mail address, or contact the recipient directly to find out the correct address. ... User unknown> Matthew Smith smithmm at tblc.org From sven at root2.schroederhost.de Thu May 15 16:54:23 2008 From: sven at root2.schroederhost.de (Sven Schmidt) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 16:54:23 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding subject text Message-ID: <482C4E9F.8090108@root2.schroederhost.de> Hi! I have one list with a subject text, but it is not shown on the config website. I already dumped the config.pck, but didn't find it in there. Where could it be? From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 15 19:28:15 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 10:28:15 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: billc wrote: >Where can I find out more about how to use Topics? Nothing much came >up in the FAQ. The documentation, such as it is, is in the 'Details for' links on the admin Topics page. There is also information from a list member's perspective at in the List Member's manual. There's also some specific question/issue stuff in the archives of this list, but finding/organizing it may be difficult. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 15 19:36:44 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 10:36:44 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Join Email Notification Template Question In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D8725D79@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Message-ID: Bill Honneus wrote: > >The following below is the email I get when I join my 'Test' mailing >list that I created from my mailman installation. Since I don't want my >users to click on a link to confirm, what I would like to do is remove >the link below so that the emails that go out to my users don't include >the hyperlink (or supporting text of 'Or visit this web page') as an >option. Is there a template that I could modify to achieve this or do I >need to change a Python script somewhere? The template is subscribeack.txt. See for info on making edited templates. Also, this is one of the templates for which a list specific version can be made via the admin interface "Edit the public HTML pages and text files" link. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 15 20:20:10 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 11:20:10 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding subject text In-Reply-To: <482C4E9F.8090108@root2.schroederhost.de> Message-ID: Sven Schmidt wrote: > >I have one list with a subject text, but it is not shown on the config >website. I already dumped the config.pck, but didn't find it in there. >Where could it be? Are you saying that subject_prefix on the list's General Options page is empty, yet the subject is being prefixed on list mails? If that is what you're saying, then either this is a different list than you think it is and you are not looking at the General Options page/config.pck for the list that is actually processing the mail, or there are some modifications to this Mailman that are doing this. You could try looking at Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py which is where the prefixing is done. You could also try grep -r 'text' Mailman/* where 'text' is the added prefix. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu May 15 20:41:09 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 11:41:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] undeliverable email on new list In-Reply-To: <69FDF3BECCCBAB41ABBCD23E23585294051DF58D@EXCHANGE.tblc.local> Message-ID: Matt Smith wrote: > >I cant figure out why a newly created list creates errors when trying to >post. Here is an example error that comes from our exchange 2003 >system. > flaconfcom at lists.tblc.org on 5/14/2008 4:05 PM > > The e-mail account does not exist at the organization this >message was sent to. Apparently your exchange server requires manual addition of aliases to support Mailman lists. If your Mailman is configured in the normal way, bin/newlist or the web create interface should have reported a list of 10 required aliases for the new list to be manually installed. As I have no information as to how this works in exchange, those exact aliases may not apply, but search your current exchange configuration, aliases, etc. for entries corresponding to your existing lists and use those as a template for the new list. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org Thu May 15 20:50:42 2008 From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 19:50:42 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] undeliverable email on new list In-Reply-To: <69FDF3BECCCBAB41ABBCD23E23585294051DF58D@EXCHANGE.tblc.local> References: <69FDF3BECCCBAB41ABBCD23E23585294051DF58D@EXCHANGE.tblc.local> Message-ID: Matt Smith wrote: >Hello, >I cant figure out why a newly created list creates errors when trying to >post. Here is an example error that comes from our exchange 2003 >system. Could you try sending without using Exchange? Exchange may think it is responsible for delivery through *.tblc.org, in which case you may get similar errors. How did you create the list, and did you update the aliases? Andrew. From sven at root2.schroederhost.de Fri May 16 13:12:42 2008 From: sven at root2.schroederhost.de (Sven Schmidt) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 13:12:42 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding subject text In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <482D6C2A.3000108@root2.schroederhost.de> Mark Sapiro schrieb: > Are you saying that subject_prefix on the list's General Options page > is empty, yet the subject is being prefixed on list mails? yes, subject_prefix (general): empty > If that is what you're saying, then either this is a different list > than you think it is and you are not looking at the General Options > page/config.pck for the list that is actually processing the mail, or > there are some modifications to this Mailman that are doing this. I've noticed, that CookHeaders.pyc is bigger on the old server, but are the same CookHeaders.py. I guess, someone had copied it there. > > You could try looking at Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py which is where > the prefixing is done. You could also try > > grep -r 'text' Mailman/* > where 'text' is the added prefix. I did it already. From adnan.shahzad at lums.edu.pk Fri May 16 14:51:17 2008 From: adnan.shahzad at lums.edu.pk (Adnan Shahzad) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 17:51:17 +0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem: please help us Message-ID: Dear Team, I configure mailman very well and its working f9. But we are facing one problem that: We created a group e.g abc at lists.example.com , if someone write this email address in TO and send it, that message has been send to all members. We want to abc group email should be send email to one user e.g abc at example.com not to all members. We just want abc group just for sending email. My user don't want moderation they want simple. I configure like if someone reply or reply all both the case only I receive e-mail, but problem is occurred when someone email on abc at lists.lums.edu.pk that email are going to all members, which we don't want kindly give me solution Thanks M.Adnan Shahzad From mark at msapiro.net Fri May 16 16:43:48 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 07:43:48 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem: please help us In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Adnan Shahzad wrote: > >We created a group e.g abc at lists.example.com , if someone write this email address in TO and send it, that message has been send to all members. We want to abc group email should be send email to one user e.g abc at example.com not to all members. We just want abc group just for sending email. I don't understand what you mean by the above. I think you mean you want an announcement or one-way type of list where only one or a few people can post messages to be received by all members. If so, see . >My user don't want moderation they want simple. I configure like if someone reply or reply all both the case only I receive e-mail, but problem is occurred when someone email on abc at lists.lums.edu.pk that email are going to all members, which we don't want kindly give me solution If I understand you correctly, moderation is the only way Mailman has to do this. There is no other way to stop a list member from posting to the list. Note that moderation doesn't necessarily mean all posts from moderated members will be held for approval. You can set the action for a post from a moderated member to discard the post or reject it with a message you supply. See the FAQ article linked above. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri May 16 16:58:09 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 07:58:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding subject text In-Reply-To: <482D6C2A.3000108@root2.schroederhost.de> Message-ID: Sven Schmidt wrote: >Mark Sapiro schrieb: >> Are you saying that subject_prefix on the list's General Options page >> is empty, yet the subject is being prefixed on list mails? >yes, subject_prefix (general): empty > >> If that is what you're saying, then either this is a different list >> than you think it is and you are not looking at the General Options >> page/config.pck for the list that is actually processing the mail, or >> there are some modifications to this Mailman that are doing this. >I've noticed, that CookHeaders.pyc is bigger on the old server, but are >the same CookHeaders.py. >I guess, someone had copied it there. So there was a prior server involved. Are you sure the messages with prefixed subject are not coming from that server, or if they are coming from the new server, that the admin interface isn't going to the old server. Note that the .pyc size difference could be the result of compilation by a different Python version. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Kai-Behncke at gmx.de Fri May 16 19:38:57 2008 From: Kai-Behncke at gmx.de (Kai Behncke) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 19:38:57 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Don`t get my mailinglist to run (mailman & postfix) Message-ID: <20080516173857.122050@gmx.net> Dear list, a couple of month age I succesfully installed mailman and postfix, but that time somehow it does not work. I need to install a mailinglist on a server of the university of Osnabrueck. Debian Etch is installed there. Postfix runs finely. I made some tests with the php-command "mail" and could sent mails to my self. I installed mailman from source with "./configure --prefix=/usr/local/mailman --with-groupname=mailman --with-username=mailman --with-mail-gid=postfix --with-cgi-gid=apacheuser --with-mailhost=igf-srv-gin.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.de --with-urlhost=igf-srv-gin.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.de" bin/check_perms gave no errors at all. I created a side wide mailinglist,started the mailman qrunner,site password and can create a new mailinglist at: http://igf-srv-gin.igf.uni-osnabrueck.de/mailman/create ...and the list is created, also the entries in /usr/local/mailman/aliases: "# STANZA START: big_test # CREATED: Fri May 16 19:30:00 2008 big_test: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post big_test" big_test-admin: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin big_test" big_test-bounces: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces big_test" big_test-confirm: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm big_test" big_test-join: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join big_test" big_test-leave: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave big_test" big_test-owner: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner big_test" big_test-request: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request big_test" big_test-subscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe big_test" big_test-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe big_test" I can register as a new user to the list and get a confirmation mail.I confirm subscribing and try to send mails to that list but they are not send to the registered users???? Can anyone help please?? And I have another question: To send mails to mylist at igf-srv-gin.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.de is a really complicated name. is there a possibility to send it to (for example): mylist at my_adress.de But how and where can I define "my_adress.de". Thank you very much, Kai -- Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger geh?rt? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger From cite at incertum.net Fri May 16 19:49:13 2008 From: cite at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 19:49:13 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Don`t get my mailinglist to run (mailman & postfix) In-Reply-To: <20080516173857.122050@gmx.net> References: <20080516173857.122050@gmx.net> Message-ID: <20080516174912.GH14621@mail.incertum.net> * Kai Behncke wrote: > Postfix runs finely. I made some tests with the php-command "mail" and could sent mails to my self. > > I installed mailman from source with > "./configure --prefix=/usr/local/mailman --with-groupname=mailman > --with-username=mailman --with-mail-gid=postfix --with-cgi-gid=apacheuser > --with-mailhost=igf-srv-gin.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.de > --with-urlhost=igf-srv-gin.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.de" > > bin/check_perms gave no errors at all. > > I created a side wide mailinglist,started the mailman qrunner,site password > and can create a new mailinglist at: > > http://igf-srv-gin.igf.uni-osnabrueck.de/mailman/create > > ...and the list is created, also the entries in /usr/local/mailman/aliases: > > "# STANZA START: big_test > # CREATED: Fri May 16 19:30:00 2008 > big_test: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post big_test" > big_test-admin: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin big_test" > big_test-bounces: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces big_test" > big_test-confirm: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm big_test" > big_test-join: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join big_test" > big_test-leave: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave big_test" > big_test-owner: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner big_test" > big_test-request: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request big_test" > big_test-subscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe big_test" > big_test-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe big_test" > I can register as a new user to the list and get a confirmation > mail.I confirm subscribing and try to send mails to that list but > they are not send to the registered users???? Can anyone help > please?? We would need some more logging information. For example, is there anything in the Postfix mail log (usually /var/log/maillog or something similar)? Is there anything in mailman's error or smtp log? > And I have another question: > > To send mails to mylist at igf-srv-gin.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.de > > is a really complicated name. is there a possibility to send it to (for example): > > mylist at my_adress.de > > But how and where can I define "my_adress.de". Yo can add alias addresses which mailman feels responsible for in the admin web interface: http://your listserver>/mailman/admin//privacy/recipient The option name is "acceptable_aliases". Then you just need to have control over a mailserver to define an alias from mylist at my_adress.de to mylist at igf-srv-gin.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.de (and of course, the MX record for my_adress.de must point to that particular server). Ciao Stefan -- Stefan F?rster http://www.incertum.net/ Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9 FdI #306: Shockwave Flash - Augenkrebs (Felix von Leitner) From Kai-Behncke at gmx.de Fri May 16 20:11:55 2008 From: Kai-Behncke at gmx.de (Kai Behncke) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 20:11:55 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Don`t get my mailinglist to run (mailman & postfix) In-Reply-To: <20080516174912.GH14621@mail.incertum.net> References: <20080516173857.122050@gmx.net> <20080516174912.GH14621@mail.incertum.net> Message-ID: <20080516181155.269180@gmx.net> Hi Stefan, thank you very much for answering. In the logfile of mailman/log/smtp it`s written: May 16 19:30:01 2008 (3226) smtp to big_test for 1 recips, completed in 0.027 seconds May 16 19:33:55 2008 (3226) smtp to big_test for 1 recips, completed in 0.030 seconds May 16 19:34:27 2008 (3226) smtp to big_test for 1 recips, completed in 0.005 seconds ...I think that are logs after subscribing to the list. I don`t understand that, because I sent out mail to big_test at igf-srv-gin.igf.uni-osnabrueck.de at 19:45 and 20:00, but there are no entries in the logs. Also in the log-file of postfix there are mo entries at that time. But there are entries like: May 16 19:34:27 igf-srv-gin postfix/smtpd[3684]: connect from localhost[127.0.0.1] May 16 19:34:27 igf-srv-gin postfix/smtpd[3684]: 1EB28F96F: client=localhost[127.0.0.1] May 16 19:34:27 igf-srv-gin postfix/cleanup[3687]: 1EB28F96F: message-id= May 16 19:34:27 igf-srv-gin postfix/qmgr[1279]: 1EB28F96F: from=, size=2201, nrcpt=1 (queue active) May 16 19:34:27 igf-srv-gin postfix/smtpd[3684]: disconnect from localhost[127.0.0.1] May 16 19:34:27 igf-srv-gin postfix/smtp[3688]: 1EB28F96F: to=, relay=mx0.gmx.net[213.165.64.100]:25, delay=0.51, delays=0/0/0.34/0.17, dsn=2.6.0, status=sent (250 2.6.0 Message accepted {mx011}) May 16 19:34:27 igf-srv-gin postfix/qmgr[1279]: 1EB28F96F: removed ...thesee entires came also after I registered to my own list. That`s weird. It looks like there is no connection to posfix if I sent as a member of the list a mail to big_test at igf-srv-gin.igf.uni-osnabrueck.de. Do you have any idea what can cause that? Seems as if it will be a long night for me. Thank you again, Kai -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Fri, 16 May 2008 19:49:13 +0200 > Von: "Stefan F?rster" > An: mailman-users at python.org > Betreff: Re: [Mailman-Users] Don`t get my mailinglist to run (mailman & postfix) > * Kai Behncke wrote: > > Postfix runs finely. I made some tests with the php-command "mail" and > could sent mails to my self. > > > > I installed mailman from source with > > "./configure --prefix=/usr/local/mailman --with-groupname=mailman > > --with-username=mailman --with-mail-gid=postfix > --with-cgi-gid=apacheuser > > --with-mailhost=igf-srv-gin.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.de > > --with-urlhost=igf-srv-gin.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.de" > > > > bin/check_perms gave no errors at all. > > > > I created a side wide mailinglist,started the mailman qrunner,site > password > > and can create a new mailinglist at: > > > > http://igf-srv-gin.igf.uni-osnabrueck.de/mailman/create > > > > ...and the list is created, also the entries in > /usr/local/mailman/aliases: > > > > "# STANZA START: big_test > > # CREATED: Fri May 16 19:30:00 2008 > > big_test: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post big_test" > > big_test-admin: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin big_test" > > big_test-bounces: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces > big_test" > > big_test-confirm: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm > big_test" > > big_test-join: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join big_test" > > big_test-leave: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave big_test" > > big_test-owner: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner big_test" > > big_test-request: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request > big_test" > > big_test-subscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe > big_test" > > big_test-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe > big_test" > > > I can register as a new user to the list and get a confirmation > > mail.I confirm subscribing and try to send mails to that list but > > they are not send to the registered users???? Can anyone help > > please?? > > We would need some more logging information. For example, is there > anything in the Postfix mail log (usually /var/log/maillog or > something similar)? Is there anything in mailman's error or smtp log? > > > And I have another question: > > > > To send mails to mylist at igf-srv-gin.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.de > > > > is a really complicated name. is there a possibility to send it to (for > example): > > > > mylist at my_adress.de > > > > But how and where can I define "my_adress.de". > > Yo can add alias addresses which mailman feels responsible for in the > admin web interface: > > http://your listserver>/mailman/admin//privacy/recipient > > The option name is "acceptable_aliases". Then you just need to have > control over a mailserver to define an alias from mylist at my_adress.de > to mylist at igf-srv-gin.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.de (and of course, the MX > record for my_adress.de must point to that particular server). > > > Ciao > Stefan > -- > Stefan F?rster http://www.incertum.net/ Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9 > FdI #306: Shockwave Flash - Augenkrebs (Felix von Leitner) > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list > Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/kai-behncke%40gmx.de > > Security Policy: > http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp -- 249 Spiele f?r nur 1 Preis. Die GMX Spieleflatrate schon ab 9,90 Euro. Neu: Asterix bei den Olympischen Spielen: http://flat.games.gmx.de From khillo100 at hotmail.com Fri May 16 21:00:15 2008 From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 19:00:15 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] server load.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hi guys, I posted this message a couple of days ago but didn't get any satisfying answers.. neither did I find a good answer in the Faq cause it's too "technical" .. so here's my message again: hi mailman guys .. my question is, I have a 100,000+ subscribers mailing list, and hosting it with godaddy.com (Celeron 2000, 2 GBs RAM) .. but they only allow 100,000 emails per day for each dedicated server, so I have to buy a new server now, and it's a bit expensive.. I found another cheap service, $30/month dedicated servers and they offer unlimited emails per day.. but its characteristics are a bit low: AMD, 512 MB RAM .. my question is, will mailman with such a huge list which is also rapidly growing work on such server? knowing that I only send 1 email newsletter a day to the list and none of the users can send to the list but me.. another question, is it easy to install mailman manually? cause in godaddy's control panel it's ready to install with 1 click.. but with the new cheap service I have to install it myself.. and is there a ready-to-install script that does everything automatically like that in the control panels? Thanks for everything mates .. _________________________________________________________________ Give to a good cause with every e-mail. Join the i?m Initiative from Microsoft. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?souce=EML_WL_ GoodCause From cite at incertum.net Fri May 16 21:21:46 2008 From: cite at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 21:21:46 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] server load.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080516192146.GB28188@mail.incertum.net> * Khalil Abbas wrote: > hi guys, I posted this message a couple of days ago but didn't get > any satisfying answers.. neither did I find a good answer in the Faq > cause it's too "technical" .. so here's my message again: Actually, Brad Knowles' answer was quite good. > hi mailman guys .. my question is, I have a 100,000+ subscribers > mailing list, and hosting it with godaddy.com (Celeron 2000, 2 GBs > RAM) .. but they only allow 100,000 emails per day for each > dedicated server, so I have to buy a new server now, and it's a bit > expensive.. I found another cheap service, $30/month dedicated > servers and they offer unlimited emails per day.. but its > characteristics are a bit low: AMD, 512 MB RAM .. my question is, > will mailman with such a huge list which is also rapidly growing > work on such server? knowing that I only send 1 email newsletter a > day to the list and none of the users can send to the list but me.. A day has 24 hours. Each hour has 60 minutes. Each minute has 60 seconds. That makes for a total of 86400 seconds per day.That means that you had to send out about 2 mails per second. Given a setting of SMTP_MAX_RCPTS of 500, that means that mailman would deliver about 200 mails to your MTA - non personalized, non VERP'ed. This is not a problem at all from an MTA's point of view (perhaps somebody with more knowledge of Mailman can, again, say something about Mailman's memory requirements with that many recipients). Even with default configurations and a rather poor DNS cache, I can't see a problem with that. Now, you still have to do bounce processing - which again, with 100000 recipients, shouldn't be that much of a problem. So given that you have a non-personalized list, don't do VERP, I'd say: Go for it. If you need personalization or need to do VERP in Mailman: I'd say forget it. Now if you want a more educated answer, review what Brad said. > another question, is it easy to install mailman manually? cause in > godaddy's control panel it's ready to install with 1 click.. but > with the new cheap service I have to install it myself.. and is > there a ready-to-install script that does everything automatically > like that in the control panels? Thanks for everything mates .. Mailmans installation manual http://www.list.org/mailman-install/index.html is one of the most detailed and easy to understand writings I have ever seen. Ciao Stefan -- Stefan F?rster http://www.incertum.net/ Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9 Aut agere aut mori. (Either action or death.) From Kai-Behncke at gmx.de Fri May 16 22:21:51 2008 From: Kai-Behncke at gmx.de (Kai Behncke) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 22:21:51 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Don`t get my mailinglist to run (mailman & postfix) In-Reply-To: <20080516181155.269180@gmx.net> References: <20080516173857.122050@gmx.net> <20080516174912.GH14621@mail.incertum.net> <20080516181155.269180@gmx.net> Message-ID: <20080516202151.276280@gmx.net> Dear list, probably It was the firewall of the University that blocked the mail-functions. I will test it now with a private server. Thanks to Stefan and best regards, Kai -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Fri, 16 May 2008 20:11:55 +0200 > Von: "Kai Behncke" > An: "Stefan F?rster" , mailman-users at python.org > Betreff: Re: [Mailman-Users] Don`t get my mailinglist to run (mailman & postfix) > Hi Stefan, > > thank you very much for answering. > > In the logfile of mailman/log/smtp it`s written: > > May 16 19:30:01 2008 (3226) > smtp to big_test for 1 recips, completed in 0.027 > seconds > May 16 19:33:55 2008 (3226) > smtp to big_test for 1 recips, completed in 0.030 > seconds > May 16 19:34:27 2008 (3226) > smtp to big_test for 1 recips, completed in 0.005 > seconds > > ...I think that are logs after subscribing to the list. > > > I don`t understand that, because I sent out mail to > big_test at igf-srv-gin.igf.uni-osnabrueck.de at 19:45 and 20:00, but there are no entries in the > logs. > Also in the log-file of postfix there are mo entries at that time. > > But there are entries like: > May 16 19:34:27 igf-srv-gin postfix/smtpd[3684]: connect from > localhost[127.0.0.1] > May 16 19:34:27 igf-srv-gin postfix/smtpd[3684]: 1EB28F96F: > client=localhost[127.0.0.1] > May 16 19:34:27 igf-srv-gin postfix/cleanup[3687]: 1EB28F96F: > message-id= > May 16 19:34:27 igf-srv-gin postfix/qmgr[1279]: 1EB28F96F: > from=, size=2201, nrcpt=1 (queue > active) > May 16 19:34:27 igf-srv-gin postfix/smtpd[3684]: disconnect from > localhost[127.0.0.1] > May 16 19:34:27 igf-srv-gin postfix/smtp[3688]: 1EB28F96F: > to=, relay=mx0.gmx.net[213.165.64.100]:25, delay=0.51, > delays=0/0/0.34/0.17, dsn=2.6.0, status=sent (250 2.6.0 Message accepted {mx011}) > May 16 19:34:27 igf-srv-gin postfix/qmgr[1279]: 1EB28F96F: removed > > ...thesee entires came also after I registered to my own list. > > > That`s weird. It looks like there is no connection to posfix if I sent as > a member of the list a mail to big_test at igf-srv-gin.igf.uni-osnabrueck.de. > > Do you have any idea what can cause that? > > > Seems as if it will be a long night for me. > Thank you again, Kai > > > > -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > > Datum: Fri, 16 May 2008 19:49:13 +0200 > > Von: "Stefan F?rster" > > An: mailman-users at python.org > > Betreff: Re: [Mailman-Users] Don`t get my mailinglist to run (mailman > & postfix) > > > * Kai Behncke wrote: > > > Postfix runs finely. I made some tests with the php-command "mail" and > > could sent mails to my self. > > > > > > I installed mailman from source with > > > "./configure --prefix=/usr/local/mailman --with-groupname=mailman > > > --with-username=mailman --with-mail-gid=postfix > > --with-cgi-gid=apacheuser > > > --with-mailhost=igf-srv-gin.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.de > > > --with-urlhost=igf-srv-gin.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.de" > > > > > > bin/check_perms gave no errors at all. > > > > > > I created a side wide mailinglist,started the mailman qrunner,site > > password > > > and can create a new mailinglist at: > > > > > > http://igf-srv-gin.igf.uni-osnabrueck.de/mailman/create > > > > > > ...and the list is created, also the entries in > > /usr/local/mailman/aliases: > > > > > > "# STANZA START: big_test > > > # CREATED: Fri May 16 19:30:00 2008 > > > big_test: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post big_test" > > > big_test-admin: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin > big_test" > > > big_test-bounces: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces > > big_test" > > > big_test-confirm: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm > > big_test" > > > big_test-join: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join big_test" > > > big_test-leave: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave > big_test" > > > big_test-owner: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner > big_test" > > > big_test-request: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request > > big_test" > > > big_test-subscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe > > big_test" > > > big_test-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe > > big_test" > > > > > I can register as a new user to the list and get a confirmation > > > mail.I confirm subscribing and try to send mails to that list but > > > they are not send to the registered users???? Can anyone help > > > please?? > > > > We would need some more logging information. For example, is there > > anything in the Postfix mail log (usually /var/log/maillog or > > something similar)? Is there anything in mailman's error or smtp log? > > > > > And I have another question: > > > > > > To send mails to mylist at igf-srv-gin.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.de > > > > > > is a really complicated name. is there a possibility to send it to > (for > > example): > > > > > > mylist at my_adress.de > > > > > > But how and where can I define "my_adress.de". > > > > Yo can add alias addresses which mailman feels responsible for in the > > admin web interface: > > > > http://your listserver>/mailman/admin//privacy/recipient > > > > The option name is "acceptable_aliases". Then you just need to have > > control over a mailserver to define an alias from mylist at my_adress.de > > to mylist at igf-srv-gin.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.de (and of course, the MX > > record for my_adress.de must point to that particular server). > > > > > > Ciao > > Stefan > > -- > > Stefan F?rster http://www.incertum.net/ Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9 > > FdI #306: Shockwave Flash - Augenkrebs (Felix von Leitner) > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Mailman-Users mailing list > > Mailman-Users at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py > > Searchable Archives: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > > Unsubscribe: > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/kai-behncke%40gmx.de > > > > Security Policy: > > http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp > > -- > 249 Spiele f?r nur 1 Preis. Die GMX Spieleflatrate schon ab 9,90 Euro. > Neu: Asterix bei den Olympischen Spielen: http://flat.games.gmx.de > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list > Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/kai-behncke%40gmx.de > > Security Policy: > http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp -- Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger geh?rt? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger From Kai-Behncke at gmx.de Fri May 16 22:34:35 2008 From: Kai-Behncke at gmx.de (Kai Behncke) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 22:34:35 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Relay access denied: mailman & postfix Message-ID: <20080516203435.276300@gmx.net> Dear users, I try to get to run mailman & postfix now on a private server. With mailman everything seems to be ok, well at least I don`t get any error messages after bin/check_perms -f and can`t see any errors in /usr/local/mailman/logs/* again I can create list and subscribe to them. But if I sent a mail to the new list nothing is delivered. In my postfix-logs I find the following error: May 16 22:15:48 h1228898 postfix/smtp[4731]: 5131D1C041D4: to=, relay=mx0.gmx.de[213.165.64.100]:25, delay=0.2, delays=0.01/0/0.06/0.13, dsn=2.6.0, status=sent (250 2.6.0 Message accepted {mx075}) May 16 22:15:48 h1228898 postfix/qmgr[4649]: 5131D1C041D4: removed May 16 22:16:10 h1228898 postfix/smtpd[4670]: connect from mail.gmx.net[213.165.64.20] May 16 22:16:10 h1228898 postfix/smtpd[4670]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from mail.gmx.net[213.165.64.20]: 554 5.7.1 : Relay access denied; from= to= proto=SMTP helo= May 16 22:16:10 h1228898 postfix/smtpd[4670]: disconnect from mail.gmx.net[213.165.64.20] Does anybody know what this could mean? Thank you again, Kai -- 249 Spiele f?r nur 1 Preis. Die GMX Spieleflatrate schon ab 9,90 Euro. Neu: Asterix bei den Olympischen Spielen: http://flat.games.gmx.de From mark at msapiro.net Fri May 16 22:38:48 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 13:38:48 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] server load.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Khalil Abbas wrote: > >hi guys, I posted this message a couple of days ago but didn't get any satisfying > answers.. neither did I find a good answer in the Faq cause it's too > "technical" .. so here's my message again: I thought Brad's reply at was very thorough. Perhaps you overlooked it because the Subject of your original post (and the reply) was "Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 47, Issue 55" -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri May 16 22:53:34 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 13:53:34 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Relay access denied: mailman & postfix In-Reply-To: <20080516203435.276300@gmx.net> Message-ID: Kai Behncke wrote: > >In my postfix-logs I find the following error: > > > >May 16 22:15:48 h1228898 postfix/smtp[4731]: 5131D1C041D4: to=, relay=mx0.gmx.de[213.165.64.100]:25, delay=0.2, delays=0.01/0/0.06/0.13, dsn=2.6.0, status=sent (250 2.6.0 Message accepted {mx075}) >May 16 22:15:48 h1228898 postfix/qmgr[4649]: 5131D1C041D4: removed >May 16 22:16:10 h1228898 postfix/smtpd[4670]: connect from mail.gmx.net[213.165.64.20] >May 16 22:16:10 h1228898 postfix/smtpd[4670]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from mail.gmx.net[213.165.64.20]: 554 5.7.1 : Relay access denied; from= to= proto=SMTP helo= >May 16 22:16:10 h1228898 postfix/smtpd[4670]: disconnect from mail.gmx.net[213.165.64.20] > > >Does anybody know what this could mean? It means that this Postfix is not configured to relay mail from mail.gmx.net to geoplp.de, presumably because neither domain is considered local by this Postfix. Resolving this is a Postfix issue, not a Mailman issue. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Kai-Behncke at gmx.de Fri May 16 22:58:27 2008 From: Kai-Behncke at gmx.de (Kai Behncke) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 22:58:27 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Relay access denied: mailman & postfix In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080516205827.262100@gmx.net> Hi Mark, thank you for answering. So I will try to find a solution at the postfix-list. Best regards, Kai -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Fri, 16 May 2008 13:53:34 -0700 > Von: Mark Sapiro > An: "Kai Behncke" , mailman-users at python.org > Betreff: Re: [Mailman-Users] Relay access denied: mailman & postfix > Kai Behncke wrote: > > > >In my postfix-logs I find the following error: > > > > > > > >May 16 22:15:48 h1228898 postfix/smtp[4731]: 5131D1C041D4: > to=, relay=mx0.gmx.de[213.165.64.100]:25, delay=0.2, > delays=0.01/0/0.06/0.13, dsn=2.6.0, status=sent (250 2.6.0 Message accepted {mx075}) > >May 16 22:15:48 h1228898 postfix/qmgr[4649]: 5131D1C041D4: removed > >May 16 22:16:10 h1228898 postfix/smtpd[4670]: connect from > mail.gmx.net[213.165.64.20] > >May 16 22:16:10 h1228898 postfix/smtpd[4670]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from > mail.gmx.net[213.165.64.20]: 554 5.7.1 : Relay access > denied; from= to= proto=SMTP > helo= > >May 16 22:16:10 h1228898 postfix/smtpd[4670]: disconnect from > mail.gmx.net[213.165.64.20] > > > > > >Does anybody know what this could mean? > > > It means that this Postfix is not configured to relay mail from > mail.gmx.net to geoplp.de, presumably because neither domain is > considered local by this Postfix. > > Resolving this is a Postfix issue, not a Mailman issue. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -- 249 Spiele f?r nur 1 Preis. Die GMX Spieleflatrate schon ab 9,90 Euro. Neu: Asterix bei den Olympischen Spielen: http://flat.games.gmx.de From stephen at xemacs.org Sat May 17 00:58:26 2008 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 07:58:26 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] server load.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87y769svot.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Khalil Abbas writes: > I found another cheap service, $30/month dedicated servers and they > offer unlimited emails per day.. but its characteristics are a bit > low: AMD, 512 MB RAM .. Brad already gave you the non-technical answer: no, very likely that is not going to work for you. You should also consider that "cheap and unlimited" is a contradiction in terms. Such services are liable to (a) go out of business, (b) change the terms on you to avoid (a), or even (c) do (b), thus imposing additional costs on you to comply with the new terms, and then do (a) anyway because the change was too little, too late. From r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk Sat May 17 07:40:15 2008 From: r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk (Richard Barrett) Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 06:40:15 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patches revised for MM 2.1.10 Message-ID: For anyone that uses them, I now have put MM 2.1.10 compatible versions of the various Mailman patches I maintain up on my web site at: http://www.openinfo.co.uk/mm/index.html Patches are as follows: Sourceforge Patch Number - Description 444879 - Archive indexer control to improve indexing. 444884 - Integration of Mailman & htdig for archive searching. 644797 - Revised mailer exit status. 760567 - Moderation request message content. 820723 - Mailman/pipermail/MHonarc integration 850805 - Aggressive anti email address harvesting measures 1442025 - List Specialisation for Support Groups 1483446 - Daily mbox files for list mbox archives Apologies for the delay in making these available. I have been, and still am, in work overload so apologies in advance if you encounter any snags; but do not hesitate to contact me if any problems occur using the revised patches I will also upload them to Sourceforge as time permits, probably over this weekend. From tennybrittian at gmail.com Sat May 17 16:34:56 2008 From: tennybrittian at gmail.com (Bill Tenny-Brittian) Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 09:34:56 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Porting Issues Message-ID: <01f701c8b82b$2e0604b0$6601a8c0@BILLSLAPTOP> Greetings. We're running mailman 2.1.9.cp2 on a Linux server. We set up with PeertoPeer.net to filter our spam, which had become unmanageable. Because some spammers were sending directly to our IP, we changed the MX settings to go directly to PeerToPeer rather than through cPanel (mx). In addition, we changed our firewall smtp from 25. It worked great and spam dropped to virtually zero, but all our mailing lists stopped working. They weren't caught in our spam trap (we can see what's captured) . they simply didn't go through. We reopened the MX settings and all our listServ emails shuffled through. The question is, where do we change the settings in Mailman to allow the messages to be diverted to peertopeer and/or allow an alternate port from 25? Note: I'm just the site owner and though I have some basic knowledge of cPanel, WHM, etc., any responses will probably be forwarded to the CoLo server guru and/or to PeerToPeer to make adjustments . unless the fix is incredibly easy! Thanks in advance! Blessings Bill Tenny-Brittian Senior Editor: Net Results Senior Consultant: Easum Bandy & Associates From mark at msapiro.net Sat May 17 17:09:06 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 08:09:06 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Porting Issues In-Reply-To: <01f701c8b82b$2e0604b0$6601a8c0@BILLSLAPTOP> Message-ID: Bill Tenny-Brittian wrote: > >We're running mailman 2.1.9.cp2 on a Linux server. We set up with >PeertoPeer.net to filter our spam, which had become unmanageable. Because >some spammers were sending directly to our IP, we changed the MX settings to >go directly to PeerToPeer rather than through cPanel (mx). In addition, we >changed our firewall smtp from 25. See . >It worked great and spam dropped to virtually zero, but all our mailing >lists stopped working. They weren't caught in our spam trap (we can see >what's captured) . they simply didn't go through. We reopened the MX >settings and all our listServ emails shuffled through. > > > >The question is, where do we change the settings in Mailman to allow the >messages to be diverted to peertopeer and/or allow an alternate port from >25? The question is, where is the 'non-delivery' occurring? If the issue is that the incoming post is not reaching Mailman, we would need more information to know what is happening and what to do about it. Note that changes to your MX and incoming mail routing should not affect Mailman as long as list mail is ultimately delivered to the same local MTA as before. If posts are reaching Mailman, being archived but not going out, and there are errors in Mailman's smtp-failure log, you probably need to put SMTPPORT = nnn in mm_cfg.py where nnn is the port your outgoing MTA is listening on. See for some more information. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From brad at shub-internet.org Sat May 17 19:54:14 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 12:54:14 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Porting Issues In-Reply-To: <01f701c8b82b$2e0604b0$6601a8c0@BILLSLAPTOP> References: <01f701c8b82b$2e0604b0$6601a8c0@BILLSLAPTOP> Message-ID: On 5/17/08, Bill Tenny-Brittian wrote: > It worked great and spam dropped to virtually zero, but all our mailing > lists stopped working. They weren't caught in our spam trap (we can see > what's captured) . they simply didn't go through. We reopened the MX > settings and all our listServ emails shuffled through. > > The question is, where do we change the settings in Mailman to allow the > messages to be diverted to peertopeer and/or allow an alternate port from > 25? For incoming mail, you don't have any control over this within Mailman. You need to make these changes within your MTA. For outgoing mail, there is an SMTPPORT= definition in mm_cfg.py that can be changed, but if you're running on cPanel, then you probably don't have the access required to change that. If your hosting provider won't change that for you, then you either have to find a different hosting provider, or find a different way to try to solve this problem. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From brad at shub-internet.org Sat May 17 19:55:47 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 12:55:47 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patches revised for MM 2.1.10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/17/08, Richard Barrett wrote: > For anyone that uses them, I now have put MM 2.1.10 compatible versions of > the various Mailman patches I maintain up on my web site at: > > http://www.openinfo.co.uk/mm/index.html And I still have a dream that someday at least most of these patches will either be incorporated directly into the Mailman mainline source code, or some comparable features will be incorporated that will serve the same purpose. Either way, if that dream were to ever be realized, then you wouldn't have to continue to maintain all of these patches. Sigh.... -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From kwz-mm at commpartners.com Sat May 17 19:12:53 2008 From: kwz-mm at commpartners.com (Karl Zander) Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 13:12:53 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patches revised for MM 2.1.10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 17 May 2008 06:40:15 +0100 Richard Barrett wrote: >For anyone that uses them, I now have put MM 2.1.10 compatible > versions of the various Mailman patches I maintain up on my web site >at: > > http://www.openinfo.co.uk/mm/index.html > > Patches are as follows: > > Sourceforge Patch Number - Description > 444879 - Archive indexer control to improve indexing. > 444884 - Integration of Mailman & htdig for archive searching. > 644797 - Revised mailer exit status. > 760567 - Moderation request message content. > 820723 - Mailman/pipermail/MHonarc integration > 850805 - Aggressive anti email address harvesting measures > 1442025 - List Specialisation for Support Groups > 1483446 - Daily mbox files for list mbox archives > > Apologies for the delay in making these available. I have been, and > still am, in work overload so apologies in advance if you encounter > any snags; but do not hesitate to contact me if any problems occur > using the revised patches > > I will also upload them to Sourceforge as time permits, probably >over this weekend. > Thank you. We use the htdig and MHonarc patches to provide searchable archives. Our users like it. --Karl From cowboy at debian.org Sun May 18 02:21:29 2008 From: cowboy at debian.org (Richard Nelson) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 00:21:29 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] A cluster issue I didn't find in the faq, or on google Message-ID: <482F7689.4020103@debian.org> Mailman: 2.1.10 Python: 2.5.2 Debian: Sid (unstable) Linux: 2.6.25.3 I've got a small cluster of machines doing smtp/web/etc. The storage is NFSv3, moving to NFSv4 as soon as I get a few more Kerberos issues squared away. To enable Mailman, I symlinked mailman/archives and mailman/lists to a NFS directory (thus keeping the queues local to each machine). Most of this works just fine, any of the machines accept posts and even the mail->(single machine for the nonce) news gateway is working. Here's the odd part (making me think I just missed something obvious) * on each machine, mailman/bin/list_lists works fine (shows the whole enchilada) * on each machine http:///cgi-bin/(listinfo|admin)/ works fine * on all but the original machine, http:///cgi-bin/(listinfo|admin)/ says there are *no* public lists (when in fact there are several) and on the original machine, http:///cgi-bin/(listinfo|admin)/ shows the full list There are no errors being generated (/var/log/mailman/error is emtpy), no http errors, but cgi-bin/(listinfo|admin) think there are no directories !?! My gut feel is that while the python scripts handle the symlink fine, it seems the compiled cgi-bin somehow doesn't like the symlinks... but that doesn't fly because the original machine (which works) is using the same symlinks to the same place... The account running mailman is the same on all machines (ldap): uid=38(list) gid=38(list) groups=38(list) I'm stumped... any clues on what to look at next ? -- Rick From mark at msapiro.net Sun May 18 02:48:45 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 17:48:45 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] A cluster issue I didn't find in the faq, or on google In-Reply-To: <482F7689.4020103@debian.org> Message-ID: Richard Nelson wrote: > >* on all but the original machine, http:///cgi-bin/(listinfo|admin)/ > says there are *no* public lists (when in fact there are several) >and > on the original machine, http:///cgi-bin/(listinfo|admin)/ > shows the full list The default setting VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = On says on the admin and listinfo overview pages show only those public lists whose host name in the hidden web_page_url list attribute matches the host in the URL that linked to the page. For this and probably other reasons, you want VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off in mm_cfg.py. See . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rclemings at gmail.com Sun May 18 06:20:43 2008 From: rclemings at gmail.com (Russell Clemings) Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 21:20:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] content filtering and blank messages (again) Message-ID: (Following up) The problem and the workaround appear to be the same as this: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.022.htp The system in this case is running CPanel 11.18.6 on CentOS 4.6. The only difference from the symptoms discussed in the FAQ is that the messages sent out by Mailman after filtering were blank, whereas the case in the FAQ had a "permission denied" error. Thanks to Mark Sapiro for ruling out other causes and pointing to this solution. rac ORIGINAL MESSAGE: I've search the archives and I must be missing something, so if this is a stupid question I apologize. But I'm having endless trouble getting Mailman to convert messages sent as HTML only into plain text. It's sending an empty message. The fixes discussed in past threads on this subject aren't working -- or else I'm not implementing them correctly. What follows are the content filtering settings, followed by a cc of a test message I sent to the list as HTML only, followed by what Mailman sent out after content filtering. The latter has no message body except the standard footer. I disguised all of the emails and other identifying information but I hope it's still understandable. Thanks in advance for any help. rac --- CONTENT FILTERING SETTINGS: Should Mailman filter the content of list traffic according to the settings below? Yes Remove message attachments that have a matching content type. (Blank) Remove message attachments that don't have a matching content type. Leave this field blank to skip this filter test. text multipart/mixed multipart/alternative multipart/related message/rfc822 text/html text/plain Remove message attachments that have a matching filename extension. (Blank) Remove message attachments that don't have a matching filename extension. Leave this field blank to skip this filter test. (Blank) Should Mailman collapse multipart/alternative to its first part content? Yes Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text? This conversion happens after MIME attachments have been stripped. Yes Action to take when a message matches the content filtering rules. Forward to List Owner ======== CC OF MESSAGE AS IT WAS SENT TO MAILMAN: Received: from my.isps.mx.server ([xx.xx.xx.xx]) by alnrmxc14.isps.mx.server (alnrmxc14) with ESMTP id <20080515034531a1400509ste>; Thu, 15 May 2008 03:45:31 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [xx.xx.xx.xx] Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([71.195.187.118]) by my.isps.mx.server with isps id RflV1Z0062ZiHyX8M00000; Thu, 15 May 2008 03:45:31 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=LIYwtywzrmFXcuGVuBcA:9 a=Fnt7OvYJGKwTYi23R0GNqJl9OAIA:4 a=AfD3MYMu9mQA:10 Message-ID: <482BB1DB.3010305 at mydomain.com> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 20:45:31 -0700 From: Me User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mailman-list at mydomain.com, my_email at address.com Subject: html mail test Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

html mail test



======== MESSAGE SENT BY MAILMAN AFTER CONTENT FILTERING: Delivered-To: my_other_email at address.com Received: by xx.xx.xx.xx with SMTP id c10cs50615fga; Wed, 14 May 2008 20:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by xx.xxx.xx.x with SMTP id b1mr1944460waa.165.1210823147551; Wed, 14 May 2008 20:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from server1.mydomain.com (server1.mydomain.com [xxx.xx.xxx.xxx]) by mx.address.com with ESMTP id g25si4319230wag.4.2008.05.14.20.45.45; Wed, 14 May 2008 20:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (address.com: domain of mailman-list-bounces at mydomain.com designates xxx.xx.xxx.xxx as permitted sender) client-ip=xxx.xx.xxx.xxx; Authentication-Results: mx.address.com; spf=pass (address.com: domain of mailman-list-bounces at mydomain.com designates xxx.xx.xxx.xxx as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mailman-list-bounces at mydomain.com Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=server1.mydomain.com) by server1.mydomain.com with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JwUPZ-0000sX-JQ for my_other_email at address.com; Wed, 14 May 2008 23:45:45 -0400 Received: from my.isps.mx.server ([76.96.30.40]) by server1.mydomain.com with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JwUPP-0000Uu-SR for mailman-list at mydomain.com; Wed, 14 May 2008 23:45:44 -0400 Received: from my.isps.mx.server ([76.96.30.11]) by my.isps.mx.server with isps id RerV1Z0050EPchoA403e00; Thu, 15 May 2008 03:45:33 +0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([71.195.187.118]) by my.isps.mx.server with isps id RflV1Z0062ZiHyX8M00000; Thu, 15 May 2008 03:45:31 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=LIYwtywzrmFXcuGVuBcA:9 a=Fnt7OvYJGKwTYi23R0GNqJl9OAIA:4 a=AfD3MYMu9mQA:10 Message-ID: <482BB1DB.3010305 at mydomain.com> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 20:45:31 -0700 From: Me User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: mailman-list at mydomain.com, my_email at address.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.9 X-Spam-Score: 9 X-Spam-Bar: / X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Antivirus-Scanner: ClamAV found no viruses but be safe and do your own scans MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9.cp2 Subject: [Mailman-list] html mail test X-BeenThere: mailman-list at mydomain.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mailman-list discussion list List-Id: Mailman-list discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mailman-list-bounces at mydomain.com Errors-To: mailman-list-bounces at mydomain.com X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server1.mydomain.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - address.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - mydomain.com _______________________________________________ Mailman-list mailing list mailman-list at mydomain.com To manage your subscription or unsubscribe: http://lists.mydomain.com/mailman/listinfo/Mailman-list (END) From khillo100 at hotmail.com Sun May 18 09:46:53 2008 From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 07:46:53 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] excessive bounce notifications.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hi guys, I recieve over 2000 messages from mailman-bounces every day with subject: Uncaught bounce notification.. and when opening any message it's nothing but another Spam Ad about pills or shoes or other stuff.. how can I stop these ADs from being sent to my Admin email? it's becoming a real pain as it takes forever to download to the inbox.. on the other hand, I don't want to disable the notification because sometimes it might be a bounce that mailman couldn't detect so I remove it manually from the list .. thanks.. _________________________________________________________________ Change the world with e-mail. Join the i?m Initiative from Microsoft. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?source=EML_WL_ChangeWorld From cite at incertum.net Sun May 18 13:45:57 2008 From: cite at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 13:45:57 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] excessive bounce notifications.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080518114557.GF23468@mail.incertum.net> * Khalil Abbas wrote: > I recieve over 2000 messages from mailman-bounces every day with > subject: Uncaught bounce notification.. and when opening any message > it's nothing but another Spam Ad about pills or shoes or other > stuff.. how can I stop these ADs from being sent to my Admin email? > it's becoming a real pain as it takes forever to download to the > inbox.. on the other hand, I don't want to disable the notification > because sometimes it might be a bounce that mailman couldn't detect > so I remove it manually from the list .. If you do not wan't to disable those notifications in Mailman, the easiest way seems to filter the messages bevor they are delivered to mailman. This probably involves some configuration in your MTA - but have you tried out the "Spam Filtering" options in your admin webinterface? As for your mailserver: A very effective open source spam filtering tool is amavisd-new which is written in Perl and can classify incoming messages as ham or spam using a pre-defined set of rules (to catch typcial pill ads, Nigerian 419 frauds and so on), a Bayes style filter (which you can train to "learn" which messages are spam), numerous DNS blacklists to e.g. compare advertised URLs against blacklists and distributed spam tracking systems like Razor or Pyzor. You can download it at: http://www.ijs.si/software/amavisd/ Please note that, depending on the volume of messages it has to filter, amavisd-new might need a non-trivial amount of memory and CPU time. On a dualcore Opteron with 2 GB RAM, I can filter between four and eight messages per second. Another option is to configure your mail server to do more checks on incoming messages. Since I don't know what MTA you are using, I can only give you some general guidelines on that: A first step would be to enforce compliance to the (E)SMTP protocol in you MTA, i.e. reject the message when the (E)SMTP syntax is invalid or the presented name in the HELO/EHLO greeting is either invalid or not fully qualified (you have to THOROUGHLY TEST the latter!). This solution deson't consume any noticeable ressources. On the aforementioned server, I can easily handle around 7k rejected mails per second on 100 concurrent, incoming connections made by spambots. A second step would be to enforce a technique called greylisting on hosts which don't have a reverse DNS name or whose hostname looks like a dialup name, e.g. "22-22-22-22.dialup.provider.example.org". You can find information on greylisting at http://www.greylisting.org/ In terms of resources, greylisting is very cheap. On the aforementioned server, I can easily handle about 1k rejects per minute due to hosts not passing greylisting. As a last step, you can make use of various realtime DNS black lists, for exampe zen.spamhaus.org. I cannot give you any specific recommendations on which blacklists to use, and I can't give you any guidelines on your policy, i.e. whether you want to reject a message if the sending host is in one, two, three or more blacklists. There are Postfix style policy daemon, Sendmail style milters and generic SMTP proxies around which all allow you to configure quite sophisticated policies on when to reject a message according to DNSBL hits. For some general information on the use of blacklists, please refer to your MTA's documentation. On the aforementioned server, supported by a highly tuned local DNS cache, I can handle about 200 policy decisions per second at most. Cheers Stefan From cite at incertum.net Sun May 18 14:06:12 2008 From: cite at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 14:06:12 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] excessive bounce notifications.. In-Reply-To: <20080518114557.GF23468@mail.incertum.net> References: <20080518114557.GF23468@mail.incertum.net> Message-ID: <20080518120612.GH23468@mail.incertum.net> Damnit, that is * Stefan F?rster wrote: > easily handle around 7k rejected mails per second on 100 concurrent, per MINUTE, ofc! Ciao Stefan -- Stefan F?rster http://www.incertum.net/ Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9 ...And god said, let there be a Satan, so people won't blame everything on me... From mark at msapiro.net Sun May 18 16:48:54 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 07:48:54 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] excessive bounce notifications.. In-Reply-To: <20080518114557.GF23468@mail.incertum.net> Message-ID: Stefan F?rster wrote: >* Khalil Abbas wrote: >> I recieve over 2000 messages from mailman-bounces every day with >> subject: Uncaught bounce notification.. and when opening any message >> it's nothing but another Spam Ad about pills or shoes or other >> stuff.. how can I stop these ADs from being sent to my Admin email? >> it's becoming a real pain as it takes forever to download to the >> inbox.. on the other hand, I don't want to disable the notification >> because sometimes it might be a bounce that mailman couldn't detect >> so I remove it manually from the list .. > >If you do not wan't to disable those notifications in Mailman, the >easiest way seems to filter the messages bevor they are delivered to >mailman. This probably involves some configuration in your MTA - but >have you tried out the "Spam Filtering" options in your admin >webinterface? Mailman's spam filters only apply to mail to the list and list-owner addresses. They don't apply to mail to -bounces. The remainder of Stefan's advice is good. For my server, I use Postfix as the incoming MTA with Postgrey for greylisting. This gets rid of much spam. The remaining mail is run through MailScanner which in my configuration uses ClamAv, SpamAssassin, Razor, Pyzor, DCC and other checks for malware and spam. I find this to be a pretty effective combination. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From brad at shub-internet.org Sun May 18 19:00:02 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 12:00:02 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] excessive bounce notifications.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/18/08, Mark Sapiro wrote: > For my server, I use Postfix as the incoming MTA with Postgrey for > greylisting. This gets rid of much spam. At the Anti-Spam Workshop at the LISA'07 conference, one lesson we learned is that every site is different, and what works for one site may not work for another. However, another thing we learned is that greylisting is becoming much less effective for many sites -- the workshop leader shared with us some average statistics for greylisting success versus spam for the year versus the last month, and the year was a 20% hit ratio while the last month was 10%. At that point, I would say that greylisting is less than useful. There's a definite non-zero cost to using it, but if the spammers are doing non-queueing retries, then greylisting becomes less than useful. > The remaining mail is run > through MailScanner which in my > configuration uses ClamAv, SpamAssassin, Razor, Pyzor, DCC and other > checks for malware and spam. I find this to be a pretty effective > combination. I've got a multi-part article I've been writing for a couple of years that details all of my knowledge and experience on the subject of fighting spam (and I've been doing this for over seventeen years), for publication on the LOPSA.org website, and goes into some detail on the anti-spam methods we use for python.org. Anyone who wants a copy of the current draft should contact me, and I'll be glad to share it with them, under the conditions that they don't share it with anyone else without my prior approval, and they promise to give me feedback. I'm also hoping to do an invited talk at the LISA'08 conference on one small part of the spam problem, if anyone is interested. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From cowboy at debian.org Sun May 18 21:37:39 2008 From: cowboy at debian.org (Richard A Nelson) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 12:37:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] A cluster issue I didn't find in the faq, or on google In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 17 May 2008, Mark Sapiro wrote: > For this and probably other reasons, you want > > VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off Aha!!! That does, indeed do exactly what I want > in mm_cfg.py. See > . I did some searches in the faq; should've just read the entire thing, it is well done If you ever get to the south bay, look me up - there's a brewpub in walking distance :) -- Rick Nelson those apparently-bacteria-like multicolor worms coming out of microsoft's backorifice that's the backoffice logo From mark at msapiro.net Mon May 19 05:36:45 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 20:36:45 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] excessive bounce notifications.. In-Reply-To: References: <20080518114557.GF23468@mail.incertum.net> Message-ID: <4830F5CD.7030309@msapiro.net> Khalil Abbas wrote: > OKEYZ .. this is just too much for me.. if I just disabled the options > that send the Uncaught Bounce notification would it be ok? I mean if > there are REAL bounces that mailman couldn't process, would it be > harmful if I just ignored them? The harm in ignoring legitimate unrecognized bounces is you keep mailing to a dead address. At best, this is a waste of bandwidth and other resources. At worst, it can get your server blacklisted. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com Mon May 19 06:16:18 2008 From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (Bill Christensen) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 23:16:18 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] excessive bounce notifications.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 7:48 AM -0700 5/18/08, Mark Sapiro wrote: >Stefan F?rster wrote: > >>* Khalil Abbas wrote: >>> I recieve over 2000 messages from mailman-bounces every day with >>> subject: Uncaught bounce notification.. and when opening any message >>> it's nothing but another Spam Ad about pills or shoes or other >>> stuff.. how can I stop these ADs from being sent to my Admin email? >>> it's becoming a real pain as it takes forever to download to the >>> inbox.. on the other hand, I don't want to disable the notification >>> because sometimes it might be a bounce that mailman couldn't detect >>> so I remove it manually from the list .. >> >>If you do not wan't to disable those notifications in Mailman, the >>easiest way seems to filter the messages bevor they are delivered to >>mailman. This probably involves some configuration in your MTA - but >>have you tried out the "Spam Filtering" options in your admin >>webinterface? > > >Mailman's spam filters only apply to mail to the list and list-owner >addresses. They don't apply to mail to -bounces. > >The remainder of Stefan's advice is good. > If the original mail was sent to the list address by a non-member and bounced with an autoreply, would the spam filter have been applied? Is the filter only applied after the message passes a member/non-member test? My guess is that there's message rejection going on: the spam is coming to the list address, bouncing out as being from non member addresses, and bouncing back to the -bounce address. If that's the case, stop autoreplying to non member mail - or teach your moderators to discard rather than reject. Spam filtering before it gets to Mailman is still probably the best choice. -- Bill Christensen Green Building Professionals Directory: Sustainable Building Calendar: Green Real Estate: Straw Bale Registry: Books/videos/software: From ge at linuxbox.org Mon May 19 07:06:26 2008 From: ge at linuxbox.org (Gadi Evron) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 00:06:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] excessive bounce notifications.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 18 May 2008, Bill Christensen wrote: > At 7:48 AM -0700 5/18/08, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> Stefan F?rster wrote: >> >>> * Khalil Abbas wrote: >>>> I recieve over 2000 messages from mailman-bounces every day with >>>> subject: Uncaught bounce notification.. and when opening any message >>>> it's nothing but another Spam Ad about pills or shoes or other >>>> stuff.. how can I stop these ADs from being sent to my Admin email? >>>> it's becoming a real pain as it takes forever to download to the >>>> inbox.. on the other hand, I don't want to disable the notification >>>> because sometimes it might be a bounce that mailman couldn't detect >>>> so I remove it manually from the list .. >>> >>> If you do not wan't to disable those notifications in Mailman, the >>> easiest way seems to filter the messages bevor they are delivered to >>> mailman. This probably involves some configuration in your MTA - but >>> have you tried out the "Spam Filtering" options in your admin >>> webinterface? >> >> >> Mailman's spam filters only apply to mail to the list and list-owner >> addresses. They don't apply to mail to -bounces. >> >> The remainder of Stefan's advice is good. >> > > If the original mail was sent to the list address by a non-member and bounced > with an autoreply, would the spam filter have been applied? Is the filter > only applied after the message passes a member/non-member test? > > My guess is that there's message rejection going on: the spam is coming to > the list address, bouncing out as being from non member addresses, and > bouncing back to the -bounce address. If that's the case, stop autoreplying > to non member mail - or teach your moderators to discard rather than reject. > > Spam filtering before it gets to Mailman is still probably the best choice. Unrelated, I auto-delete bounces these days as to deteremine which is useful and which isn't, type-wise, takes me opening and examining the email. > -- > Bill Christensen > > > Green Building Professionals Directory: > Sustainable Building Calendar: > Green Real Estate: > Straw Bale Registry: > Books/videos/software: > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list > Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ge%40linuxbox.org > > Security Policy: > http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp > From maickel.pandie at gmail.com Mon May 19 09:09:15 2008 From: maickel.pandie at gmail.com (Maickel Pandie) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 14:09:15 +0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to access email queue in mailman and change the queue proses from FIFO to size based Message-ID: <6a215fbe0805190009l1fe2eb43w7f9d53b9f8aeb581@mail.gmail.com> Hello I'm new in mailman but I want to try to change the queue proceess method from FIFO to size based... how make it happen?? From honneus at cisco.com Mon May 19 16:05:39 2008 From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus)) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 10:05:39 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Inline Attachments on mailman messages Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D879046D@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Hi, My installation of Mailman is attaching the following html message on all the messages generated by my 'Test' mailing list. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Test mailing list Test at my.domain.com http://my-hostname.domain.com/mailman/listinfo/test I don't mind the attachment going out, but I do not want the http link included in the body of the attachment. Is there a way to disable the inclusion of the http link in the attachment? If not, then my next choice would be to disable the attachment alltogether. Thanks, Bill From mark at msapiro.net Mon May 19 16:22:16 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 07:22:16 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] excessive bounce notifications.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bill Christensen wrote: >At 7:48 AM -0700 5/18/08, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> >>Mailman's spam filters only apply to mail to the list and list-owner >>addresses. They don't apply to mail to -bounces. >> >>The remainder of Stefan's advice is good. >> > >If the original mail was sent to the list address >by a non-member and bounced with an autoreply, >would the spam filter have been applied? Is the >filter only applied after the message passes a >member/non-member test? For mail sent to the list posting address or the list-owner address, Mailman's header_filter_rules are applied before anything else. Mailman's bounce_matching_headers (a misnomer because it's actually a hold, not a bounce) are applied later to list posts (after member tests) and not at all to list-owner mail. >My guess is that there's message rejection going >on: the spam is coming to the list address, >bouncing out as being from non member addresses, >and bouncing back to the -bounce address. If >that's the case, stop autoreplying to non member >mail - or teach your moderators to discard rather >than reject. Those are good suggestions, but in the case of the OP, the issue is much simpler than that. Spam is sent directly to the list-bounces address. >Spam filtering before it gets to Mailman is still probably the best choice. Yes. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon May 19 16:44:50 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 07:44:50 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Inline Attachments on mailman messages In-Reply-To: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D879046D@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Message-ID: Bill Honneus wrote: > >My installation of Mailman is attaching the following html message on >all the messages generated by my 'Test' mailing list. > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > >_______________________________________________ >Test mailing list >Test at my.domain.com >http://my-hostname.domain.com/mailman/listinfo/test > > >I don't mind the attachment going out, but I do not want the http link >included in the body of the attachment. Is there a way to disable the >inclusion of the http link in the attachment? If not, then my next >choice would be to disable the attachment alltogether. The 'attachment' is the list's msg_footer. See for more on why it's an attachment. I'm not clear on how much of the above is actually in the footer, and how much is 'helpfully' added by your MUA, but you have complete control over the original contents of the footer on the list's Non-digest options page. Note that if this is the default footer, the actual footer is just _______________________________________________ Test mailing list Test at my.domain.com http://my-hostname.domain.com/mailman/listinfo/test and the and are added by your MUA when you view the message. Also note that the footer is attached as a text/plain message part, so any rendering of email addresses and URLs as 'clickable' links is also done by your MUA. View the raw message source to see what Mailman is actually sending. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon May 19 16:52:24 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 07:52:24 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to access email queue in mailman and change thequeue proses from FIFO to size based In-Reply-To: <6a215fbe0805190009l1fe2eb43w7f9d53b9f8aeb581@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Maickel Pandie wrote: >I'm new in mailman but I want to try to change the queue proceess >method from FIFO to size based... >how make it happen?? 1) Learn Python. 2) Read and understand Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py, particularly the Switchboard.files() method. 3) Make the changes to do what you want. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From brad at shub-internet.org Mon May 19 17:49:13 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 10:49:13 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] excessive bounce notifications.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4831A179.9090201@shub-internet.org> Mark Sapiro wrote and quoted Bill Christensen: > Those are good suggestions, but in the case of the OP, the issue is > much simpler than that. Spam is sent directly to the list-bounces > address. > >> Spam filtering before it gets to Mailman is still probably the best choice. > > Yes. It seems to me that the OP's problem is spam that is masquerading as a bounce. This has been going on for some time (see for an article written in 2006 about what one company was working on to combat the problem), but has become much more populare recently. The method known as Bounce Address Tag Validation (a.k.a., BATV, see ) is one way to try to mitigate fake bounces, but it is limited in scope and fragile. I think it may also break mailing lists. I have an alternative technique that I call Bounce Address Tag Fingerprinting (BATF) that I believe will be much more robust, won't require modifying the envelope sender address, and won't require any crypto. I have yet to get it officially written up anywhere, however. However, above everything else, BATV and BATV are not mutually exclusive. You could start with BATV now (if your systems are capable of handling it), and add BATF later, once it's been written down on paper and software has been developed which implements the technique. However, as you point out, all spam possible filtering should be done at the MTA, before the message ever gets to Mailman. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From honneus at cisco.com Mon May 19 20:59:50 2008 From: honneus at cisco.com (Bill Honneus (honneus)) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 14:59:50 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Inline Attachments on mailman messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <72090C0C43FAAE4EA600F612226977D879065E@xmb-rtp-213.amer.cisco.com> Thanks, Mark. The non-digest options on the admistrative page for my list clearly showed the content that was being added to the footer. I modified it to suit my needs. Thanks again for the help! Bill -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 10:45 AM To: Bill Honneus (honneus); mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Inline Attachments on mailman messages Bill Honneus wrote: > >My installation of Mailman is attaching the following html message on >all the messages generated by my 'Test' mailing list. > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > >_______________________________________________ >Test mailing list >Test at my.domain.com >http://my-hostname.domain.com/mailman/listinfo/test > > >I don't mind the attachment going out, but I do not want the http link >included in the body of the attachment. Is there a way to disable the >inclusion of the http link in the attachment? If not, then my next >choice would be to disable the attachment alltogether. The 'attachment' is the list's msg_footer. See for more on why it's an attachment. I'm not clear on how much of the above is actually in the footer, and how much is 'helpfully' added by your MUA, but you have complete control over the original contents of the footer on the list's Non-digest options page. Note that if this is the default footer, the actual footer is just _______________________________________________ Test mailing list Test at my.domain.com http://my-hostname.domain.com/mailman/listinfo/test and the and are added by your MUA when you view the message. Also note that the footer is attached as a text/plain message part, so any rendering of email addresses and URLs as 'clickable' links is also done by your MUA. View the raw message source to see what Mailman is actually sending. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From stephen at xemacs.org Mon May 19 23:16:50 2008 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 06:16:50 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to access email queue in mailman and change thequeue proses from FIFO to size based In-Reply-To: References: <6a215fbe0805190009l1fe2eb43w7f9d53b9f8aeb581@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <871w3yf0zh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Mark Sapiro writes: > Maickel Pandie wrote: > > >I'm new in mailman but I want to try to change the queue proceess > >method from FIFO to size based... > >how make it happen?? > > > 1) Learn Python. > 2) Read and understand Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py, particularly the > Switchboard.files() method. > 3) Make the changes to do what you want. 4) Discuss issues along the way on mailman-developers at python.org 5) (optional) File a patch on SourceForge to have your work included in the Mailman distribution. From sven at root2.schroederhost.de Tue May 20 08:44:32 2008 From: sven at root2.schroederhost.de (Sven Schmidt) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 08:44:32 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding subject text In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48327350.6050902@root2.schroederhost.de> Mark Sapiro schrieb: > > So there was a prior server involved. Are you sure the messages with > prefixed subject are not coming from that server, or if they are > coming from the new server, that the admin interface isn't going to > the old server. yes. Two different addresses. > > Note that the .pyc size difference could be the result of compilation > by a different Python version. Both are "CookHeaders.pyc: python 2.3 byte-compiled" From sven at root2.schroederhost.de Tue May 20 08:59:27 2008 From: sven at root2.schroederhost.de (Sven Schmidt) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 08:59:27 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding subject text / correction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <483276CF.8040704@root2.schroederhost.de> Mark Sapiro schrieb: > > > So there was a prior server involved. Are you sure the messages with > prefixed subject are not coming from that server, or if they are > coming from the new server, that the admin interface isn't going to > the old server. > > Note that the .pyc size difference could be the result of compilation > by a different Python version. > oh wait, on new server its "python 2.4 byte-compiled" old server: 8 -rw-r--r-- 1 root list 5776 2007-02-28 22:35 CalcRecips.py 4 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3238 2007-03-28 08:43 CalcRecips.pyc 4 -rw-r--r-- 1 root list 1370 2007-02-28 22:35 CleanseDKIM.py 4 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 898 2007-03-28 08:43 CleanseDKIM.pyc 4 -rw-r--r-- 1 root list 2095 2007-02-28 22:35 Cleanse.py 4 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1273 2007-03-28 08:43 Cleanse.pyc 16 -rw-r--r-- 1 root list 15315 2007-02-28 22:35 CookHeaders.py 12 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 8844 2007-03-28 08:43 CookHeaders.pyc new server: 8 -rw-r--r-- 1 root list 5776 2007-02-28 22:36 CalcRecips.py 4 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2820 2007-10-26 09:16 CalcRecips.pyc 4 -rw-r--r-- 1 root list 1370 2007-02-28 22:36 CleanseDKIM.py 4 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 833 2007-10-26 09:16 CleanseDKIM.pyc 4 -rw-r--r-- 1 root list 2095 2007-02-28 22:36 Cleanse.py 4 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1153 2007-10-26 09:16 Cleanse.pyc 16 -rw-r--r-- 1 root list 15315 2007-02-28 22:36 CookHeaders.py 8 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7474 2007-10-26 09:16 CookHeaders.pyc it seems,that nothing has been edited. only the size is diffent. From itatabitovski at gmail.com Tue May 20 11:12:32 2008 From: itatabitovski at gmail.com (Ilin Tatabitovski) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 11:12:32 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] disable bounce Message-ID: Hello, I would like to configure Mailman only for forward ANY kind of email to the subscribers. Often a mail with an attachment is being kept for revision, and a bounce notification is being sent. I would only like to forward a sent to a certain list to everybody. Is this possible? Thanks From sven at root2.schroederhost.de Tue May 20 12:51:58 2008 From: sven at root2.schroederhost.de (Sven Schmidt) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 12:51:58 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding subject text (solved) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4832AD4E.3070008@root2.schroederhost.de> Mark Sapiro schrieb: > So there was a prior server involved. Are you sure the messages with > prefixed subject are not coming from that server, or if they are > coming from the new server, that the admin interface isn't going to > the old server. Someone has put a script into the alias DB. #!/usr/bin/perl use Date::Format; @lt = localtime(time); $template="%Y-%m"; $datestr=time2str($template, time); $pipe="|/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post listname"; $counterfile="/var/local/MAInfocounter"; open(CF,"+<",$counterfile); while (){ $mano=$_; } $mano++; print $mano; seek(CF,0,0); print CF $mano; close(CF); open(PH,$pipe) || die "cannot open Pipe"; while () { $_ =~ s/^Subject: /Subject: [Infolist $datestr Nr.$mano] /; print PH $_; } close(PH); From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de Tue May 20 16:12:38 2008 From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 16:12:38 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible that a list loses its members? Message-ID: <6E631EA698E0E57E4236B99A@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de> Hi, we're running Mailman 2.1.9. Today I encountered something that's a mystery to me. A few weeks ago we created a list using our custom list-creation script that we always use. The list was apparently created correctly, like they always are. There were three initial list members and I can see them being added in /var/log/mailman/subscribe. Our script adds members using the add_members tool. Every Saturday we run a cronjob that looks for empty lists, i.e. lists with no members. The list in question popped up. So I wrote to the list owner to ask him why the list was empty. He was completely unaware of that. He had received the notifications about the new list members when the list was created and nothing since. That's corroborated by the fact that there are no unsubscribe lines in any of the log files. Still the list was empty. I'm at a loss to explain what might have happened. Any ideas? -- .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Geb?ude 52), Zimmer 18.:. Zentrum f?r angewandte Informatik - Universit?tsweiter Service RRZK .:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ? +49-221-478-5587.:. .:.:.:.Skype: shagedorn.:.:.:. From jstorry at cpha.ca Tue May 20 16:12:11 2008 From: jstorry at cpha.ca (Jesse Storry) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 10:12:11 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Mail Queue Message-ID: <0924696B88745C479703CA07A6D56AFB017671B6@cphasrv2.cpha.ca> Hi there, I am using Mailman 2.1.9 on CentOS with qmail. We are also using qmail to run spamassassin spam filter. We are also trying to route all mail through our Exchange box, rather than directly through the machine that Mailman is running on. This complicates things. I have found a way to redirect mail from Exchange to the Mailman box, but now I need to know where to redirect the mail after it goes through the spam filtering process via spamassassin. What I am looking for is a folder to drop the messages into such that they get picked up and processed by Mailman, or is there a program to invoke which takes an email message as an argument? I have been a little unclear as to how Mailman finds and processes new mail. Thanks, Jesse From jaco at kroon.co.za Tue May 20 19:00:06 2008 From: jaco at kroon.co.za (Jaco Kroon) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 19:00:06 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Mail Queue In-Reply-To: <0924696B88745C479703CA07A6D56AFB017671B6@cphasrv2.cpha.ca> References: <0924696B88745C479703CA07A6D56AFB017671B6@cphasrv2.cpha.ca> Message-ID: <48330396.4040609@kroon.co.za> It's been a while since I set it up but http://www.kroon.co.za/howto.php?howto=qmail_mailman should still be applicable. Regards, Jaco Jesse Storry wrote: > Hi there, > > I am using Mailman 2.1.9 on CentOS with qmail. We are also using qmail > to run spamassassin spam filter. We are also trying to route all mail > through our Exchange box, rather than directly through the machine that > Mailman is running on. This complicates things. > > I have found a way to redirect mail from Exchange to the Mailman box, > but now I need to know where to redirect the mail after it goes through > the spam filtering process via spamassassin. > > What I am looking for is a folder to drop the messages into such that > they get picked up and processed by Mailman, or is there a program to > invoke which takes an email message as an argument? I have been a little > unclear as to how Mailman finds and processes new mail. > > Thanks, > Jesse > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list > Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jaco%40kroon.co.za > > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp From gilmore.126 at osu.edu Tue May 20 19:02:08 2008 From: gilmore.126 at osu.edu (Melinda Gilmore) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 13:02:08 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domains Message-ID: <200805201702.m4KH22t8017322@defang10.it.ohio-state.edu> I know this has been covered alot and I do see alot of talk in the archives, but I am new to the whole, mailman/postfix/apache/redhat world and the instructions are not clear to me because of that. Is there anyone out there that has the actually settings and what files to change in postfix, apache, mta, and whatever to get virtual domains to work. Am I to understand that if I had a list called something at lists.service.osu.edu (our domain) and I want a virtual domain to go with it called something at network.org I can get this to work? From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 20 19:26:05 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 10:26:05 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] disable bounce In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ilin Tatabitovskiwrote: > >I would like to configure Mailman only for forward ANY kind of email >to the subscribers. Often a mail with an attachment is being kept for >revision, and a bounce notification is being sent. > >I would only like to forward a sent to a certain list to everybody. Is >this possible? There are many things that can cause a post to be held. If you turn off (set to No) respond_to_post_requests on the list's General Options page, the notice to the submitter will not be sent when a post is held. In order to not hold posts at all, you have to address the reason they are held in the first place. If posts with attachments are held it is likely because of max_message_size, also on the list's General Options page. Set this to 0 for no limit. Some other possible reasons are 'implicit destination' and 'too many recipients'. You can address these on Privacy options...->Recipient filters by setting require_explicit_destination to No and max_num_recipients to 0. There are other possible holds as well. If you encounter them, you can address them. E.g., if you want to accept posts from non-subscribers, set Privacy options...->Sender filters->generic_nonmember_action to Accept. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From brad at python.org Tue May 20 19:31:07 2008 From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 12:31:07 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Mail Queue In-Reply-To: <0924696B88745C479703CA07A6D56AFB017671B6@cphasrv2.cpha.ca> References: <0924696B88745C479703CA07A6D56AFB017671B6@cphasrv2.cpha.ca> Message-ID: <48330ADB.9060308@python.org> Jesse Storry wrote: > What I am looking for is a folder to drop the messages into such that > they get picked up and processed by Mailman, or is there a program to > invoke which takes an email message as an argument? I have been a little > unclear as to how Mailman finds and processes new mail. Mailman gets the message from the MTA, which passes the contents of the message on the command-line to the appropriate Mailman program. Different MTAs may handle this process in a different way, but with common MTAs like sendmail or postfix, this is controlled through the "alias" files, so that listname at yourhost.yourdomain.example.com gets redirected to the right invocation of the right program with the right command-line arguments. Integration of Mailman with Exchange is a pretty black art, in my experience. If you wanted to run a local MTA on the machine and have that machine push all outgoing mail through your Exchange server, you could do that. But how you configure Exchange to recognize mail delivered to it as being something that should be delivered to the back-end Mailman server is something totally different. In my experience, most people try to hide their Exchange servers behind Unix boxes, because the Exchange server can't deal with all the traffic and kinds of abuse that happens in the real world, and they set up the Unix server to filter all that out before it gets to Exchange. -- Brad Knowles Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team, & Co-moderator of the mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists From brad at python.org Tue May 20 19:32:50 2008 From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 12:32:50 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible that a list loses its members? In-Reply-To: <6E631EA698E0E57E4236B99A@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de> References: <6E631EA698E0E57E4236B99A@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de> Message-ID: <48330B42.2090908@python.org> Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > I'm at a loss to explain what might have happened. Any ideas? What is in the "bounce" log? The automatic bounce processing could have unsubscribed them, although I would have thought that the results of that would show up in the "subscribe" log. -- Brad Knowles Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team, & Co-moderator of the mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 20 19:52:34 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 10:52:34 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible that a list loses its members? In-Reply-To: <6E631EA698E0E57E4236B99A@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de> References: <6E631EA698E0E57E4236B99A@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de> Message-ID: <48330FE2.4030407@msapiro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: | | we're running Mailman 2.1.9. Today I encountered something that's a | mystery to me. A few weeks ago we created a list using our custom | list-creation script that we always use. The list was apparently created | correctly, like they always are. There were three initial list members | and I can see them being added in /var/log/mailman/subscribe. Our script | adds members using the add_members tool. | | Every Saturday we run a cronjob that looks for empty lists, i.e. lists | with no members. The list in question popped up. So I wrote to the list | owner to ask him why the list was empty. He was completely unaware of | that. He had received the notifications about the new list members when | the list was created and nothing since. That's corroborated by the fact | that there are no unsubscribe lines in any of the log files. Still the | list was empty. | | I'm at a loss to explain what might have happened. Any ideas? I can't explain what happened, but the only way I can see something like this happening is if there was a failure in list locking. I.e. if some other process was updating the list at the same time that add_members was running and the other process locked the list first, then add_members locked the list, added the members and saved and unlocked the list, and finally the other process saved the list without the members. I don't think this can result from a simple failure of some process to lock the list since an unlocked list cannot be saved, and locking a list refreshes the data. If there is an issue, it has to be in the locking mechanism itself, but this seems sound and there are no known issues with this, although coincidentally (and I'm sure it's just a rare and strange coincidence) I saw an apparent locking failure last week. See . So now we have two reports of possible locking failures. We'll have to keep watching. Brad Knowles wrote: | What is in the "bounce" log? The automatic bounce processing could have | unsubscribed them, although I would have thought that the results of that | would show up in the "subscribe" log. Yes - unsubscribes by bounce processing are logged in the "subscribe" log as is every other removal of a member except for low level manipulation by a withlist or other script. - -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) iD8DBQFIMw/iVVuXXpU7hpMRAgktAKCmQr16ny6TXLZGz49CcTSh4ci1UQCeIZ6J bPhKdEIUlw1QEdhAY4Gn09c= =x1g5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 20 20:10:39 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 11:10:39 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Mail Queue In-Reply-To: <0924696B88745C479703CA07A6D56AFB017671B6@cphasrv2.cpha.ca> Message-ID: Jesse Storry wrote: > >What I am looking for is a folder to drop the messages into such that >they get picked up and processed by Mailman, or is there a program to >invoke which takes an email message as an argument? I have been a little >unclear as to how Mailman finds and processes new mail. The 'standard' way is mail gets queued in one of Mailman's queues by being piped to Mailman's mail/mailman wrapper with appropriate arguments. How this process is accomplished with standard qmail alias files is described in the article at referenced in Jaco Kroon's reply in this thread. There is another way to deliver mail to Mailman using a maildir. See the doc string at the beginning of Mailman/Queue/MaildirRunner.py for more information. In order to use this method, you need to put USE_MAILDIR = Yes QRUNNERS.append(('MaildirRunner', 1)) in mm_cfg.py. You can also specify a path to the maildir with MAILDIR_DIR = '/path/to/maildir' if you don't want to use the default which is Mailman's qfiles/maildir/. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From soapy3 at gmail.com Tue May 20 20:58:47 2008 From: soapy3 at gmail.com (Steve) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 14:58:47 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Obscuring Email Addresses In The Archive Message-ID: <171bb3f10805201158w1f0ce1ebwf8b5e73a5fc8b5f8@mail.gmail.com> Hi; I'm running an email list that is on GNU Mailman 2.1.9.. In the distant past I have had trouble with disgruntled readers going into the archives to harvest email addresses so that they could rant to people off list. I don't want to shut innocent people out of the benefits of the archive. I was wondering if I could further obscure the email addresses in the archives. Perhaps removing everything after the "@" symbol? The GNU Mailman software is run for me on a server that I do not have access to, so a solution that I could implement from the admin interface would be preferable. Thanks! From soapy3 at gmail.com Tue May 20 21:05:56 2008 From: soapy3 at gmail.com (Steve) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 15:05:56 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailmain 2.1.9: Filtering Messages based on words in the body of an email? Message-ID: <171bb3f10805201205r18556259k6dbb3b3401200f0b@mail.gmail.com> Hi; My apologies if this message is redundant. I looked through the archives a few different search strings. While I found some related material most of it seemed to be from a long time ago. I'm admiring a GNU Mailman email list that is running on version 2.1.9 on a server that I do not have access too. Is it possible through the use of the admin interface to filter out messages based on key words in the body of an email? I have some banned ex-subscribers who periodically resubscribe under new email addresses to post URLs to rant pages about my list. I would rather not moderate all new incoming subscribers. I don't want to slow legitimate users down. The trolls often bury the URLs at the end of long messages making it easy to miss. I would prefer not to use procmail or software other than GNU Mailman. As I wrote the list is made available to me freely on a server that I do not have access to. I don't want to bother my admin more than I have to. Is it possible to set up GNU Mailman 2.1.9 to filter on URLs or other keywords in the body of an email? If this issue has been covered for this version of Mailman please feel free to RTFM me to the appropriate docs and I will read them. Thanks From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 20 21:17:04 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 12:17:04 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Obscuring Email Addresses In The Archive In-Reply-To: <171bb3f10805201158w1f0ce1ebwf8b5e73a5fc8b5f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Steve wrote: > >I was wondering if I could further obscure the email addresses in the >archives. Perhaps removing everything after the "@" symbol? > >The GNU Mailman software is run for me on a server that I do not have >access to, so a solution that I could implement from the admin >interface would be preferable. Any such obfuscation of email addresses beyond what's currently done would require source code modifications. See for one such example. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 20 21:20:25 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 12:20:25 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailmain 2.1.9: Filtering Messages based onwords in the body of an email? In-Reply-To: <171bb3f10805201205r18556259k6dbb3b3401200f0b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Steve wrote: > >Is it possible to set up GNU Mailman 2.1.9 to filter on URLs or other >keywords in the body of an email? Not without implementing a custom handler or modifying source code. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de Tue May 20 22:03:12 2008 From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 22:03:12 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible that a list loses its members? In-Reply-To: <48330B42.2090908@python.org> References: <6E631EA698E0E57E4236B99A@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de> <48330B42.2090908@python.org> Message-ID: <733D055D1003B3A3774FD088@G5> -- Brad Knowles is rumored to have mumbled on 20. Mai 2008 12:32:50 -0500 regarding Re: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible that a list loses its members?: >> I'm at a loss to explain what might have happened. Any ideas? > > What is in the "bounce" log? Nothing. > The automatic bounce processing could have > unsubscribed them, although I would have thought that the results of that > would show up in the "subscribe" log. Yup. But see my next reply. -- Sebastian Hagedorn - Listmaster - RZKR-R1 (Flachbau), Zimmer 18 Zentrum f?r angewandte Informatik - Universit?tsweiter Service RRZK Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - Tel. +49-221-478-5587 From brad at shub-internet.org Tue May 20 22:06:38 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 15:06:38 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Obscuring Email Addresses In The Archive In-Reply-To: <171bb3f10805201158w1f0ce1ebwf8b5e73a5fc8b5f8@mail.gmail.com> References: <171bb3f10805201158w1f0ce1ebwf8b5e73a5fc8b5f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48332F4E.2040803@shub-internet.org> Steve wrote: > I was wondering if I could further obscure the email addresses in the > archives. Perhaps removing everything after the "@" symbol? That would require source level modification to the mailing list software. > The GNU Mailman software is run for me on a server that I do not have > access to, so a solution that I could implement from the admin > interface would be preferable. Not so far as I know. You need to be able to get full priviledged access to the server in order to make the source-code level changes. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de Tue May 20 22:16:15 2008 From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 22:16:15 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible that a list loses its members? In-Reply-To: <48330FE2.4030407@msapiro.net> References: <6E631EA698E0E57E4236B99A@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de> <48330FE2.4030407@msapiro.net> Message-ID: -- Mark Sapiro is rumored to have mumbled on 20. Mai 2008 10:52:34 -0700 regarding Re: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible that a list loses its members?: >| I'm at a loss to explain what might have happened. Any ideas? > > > I can't explain what happened, but the only way I can see something like > this happening is if there was a failure in list locking. Right, that's what we thought ourselves. The member adding is logged and we verifed that the notification mails got sent, but it appears that both those actions occur *before* the members are actually added. > I.e. if some > other process was updating the list at the same time that add_members > was running and the other process locked the list first, then > add_members locked the list, added the members and saved and unlocked > the list, and finally the other process saved the list without the > members. The other process would probably(?) be the config_list command. Some more detail. We found the following just before the list was created: May 09 14:54:25 2008 (10586) admin.py access for non-existent list: listname May 09 14:54:25 2008 (11122) admin.py access for non-existent list: listname The member adding happened just two minutes later: May 09 14:56:29 2008 (13495) listname: new xxx.xxx at uni-koeln.de, Now the script we use to create new lists does this: new_list(); write_config_file(); config_list(); add_members(); demod_members(); send_mail(); new_list() calls newlist, config_list() calls config_list, and add_members() calls add_members - not much of a surprise, I guess. > I don't think this can result from a simple failure of some process to > lock the list since an unlocked list cannot be saved, and locking a list > refreshes the data. If there is an issue, it has to be in the locking > mechanism itself, but this seems sound and there are no known issues > with this, although coincidentally (and I'm sure it's just a rare and > strange coincidence) I saw an apparent locking failure last week. See > >. > > So now we have two reports of possible locking failures. We'll have to > keep watching. There were instances before where listowner talked of strange phenomena, but there never was any proof. I admit I never believed them ... -- Sebastian Hagedorn - Listmaster - RZKR-R1 (Flachbau), Zimmer 18 Zentrum f?r angewandte Informatik - Universit?tsweiter Service RRZK Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - Tel. +49-221-478-5587 From mark at msapiro.net Tue May 20 22:52:46 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 13:52:46 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible that a list loses its members? In-Reply-To: References: <6E631EA698E0E57E4236B99A@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de> <48330FE2.4030407@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <48333A1E.5050205@msapiro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: | -- Mark Sapiro is rumored to have mumbled on 20. Mai | 2008 10:52:34 -0700 regarding Re: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible that a | list loses its members?: | |> | I'm at a loss to explain what might have happened. Any ideas? |> |> |> I can't explain what happened, but the only way I can see something like |> this happening is if there was a failure in list locking. | | Right, that's what we thought ourselves. The member adding is logged and | we verifed that the notification mails got sent, but it appears that | both those actions occur *before* the members are actually added. Actually, no. The members are added before the log is written and the notices sent. See the ApprovedAddMember method in Mailman/MailList.py. What has to happen is after the members are added and the config.pck is saved, some other process has to overwrite the config.pck with one that doesn't have the added members (at least assuming you don't have a custom member adaptor that keeps membership elsewhere). |> I.e. if some |> other process was updating the list at the same time that add_members |> was running and the other process locked the list first, then |> add_members locked the list, added the members and saved and unlocked |> the list, and finally the other process saved the list without the |> members. | | The other process would probably(?) be the config_list command. Some | more detail. We found the following just before the list was created: | | May 09 14:54:25 2008 (10586) admin.py access for non-existent list: | listname | May 09 14:54:25 2008 (11122) admin.py access for non-existent list: | listname These are apparently from attempted web access to the admin interface for the list before it is created. | The member adding happened just two minutes later: | | May 09 14:56:29 2008 (13495) listname: new xxx.xxx at uni-koeln.de, Two minutes is forever in terms of what we're talking about. Even two seconds is a long time. | Now the script we use to create new lists does this: | | new_list(); | write_config_file(); | config_list(); | add_members(); | demod_members(); | send_mail(); | | new_list() calls newlist, config_list() calls config_list, and | add_members() calls add_members - not much of a surprise, I guess. Are these synchronous calls? What would have to happen is something like the following: config_list is called. It instantiates the list with a lock. It then reads its input and updates its in memory copy of the list. While this is going on, add_members is called. It instantiates the list with a lock., but somehow this fails to wait for config_list to relinquish its lock. add_members adds the members and saves and unlocks the updated list. Then config_list finishes processing and saves its updated list which doesn't have the members. This scenario is hypothetical. It depends on list locking to fail somehow at a low level. It can't result from a coding error in one of the processes as long as they use standard list methods because a process can't lock a list without obtaining/refreshing the latest list data, and a process can't save a list that isn't locked. Another possible cause is if there was a temporary read error on config.pck by the process immediately following add_members causing it to fall back to config.pck.last, but this would be logged in Mailman's error log. What do demod_members() and send_mail() do. Is there anything there that manipulates config.pck other than by standard MailList.MailList methods? |> I don't think this can result from a simple failure of some process to |> lock the list since an unlocked list cannot be saved, and locking a list |> refreshes the data. If there is an issue, it has to be in the locking |> mechanism itself, but this seems sound and there are no known issues |> with this, although coincidentally (and I'm sure it's just a rare and |> strange coincidence) I saw an apparent locking failure last week. See |> >. |> |> So now we have two reports of possible locking failures. We'll have to |> keep watching. | | There were instances before where listowner talked of strange phenomena, | but there never was any proof. I admit I never believed them ... - -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) iD8DBQFIMzoeVVuXXpU7hpMRAmGPAJ9gBdnMFqUsIxqre3iIkEZR9UaykwCgr5Xb cNC/t7HWoeRzG777k5kGmyM= =s98Q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 21 02:37:55 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 17:37:55 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domains In-Reply-To: <200805201702.m4KH22t8017322@defang10.it.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: Melinda Gilmore wrote: >I know this has been covered alot and I do see alot of talk in the >archives, but I am new to the whole, mailman/postfix/apache/redhat >world and the instructions are not clear to me because of that. Is >there anyone out there that has the actually settings and what files >to change in postfix, apache, mta, and whatever to get virtual >domains to work. Am I to understand that if I had a list called >something at lists.service.osu.edu (our domain) and I want a virtual >domain to go with it called something at network.org I can get this to work? Not exactly. If you have a list named "something" that is currently in the lists.service.osu.edu domain, you could move it to the network.org domain, but the whole idea of virtual domains in Mailman is that the various domains are disjoint (although currently list names still have to be globally unique). If you just want to be able to mail to something at network.org in addition to mailing to something at lists.service.osu.edu and have either address go to the list, this would all be done in Postfix and DNS. In order to give you a recipe to do what you want, I'd need more detailed information. We would need to have a dialog to determine what you want and what can be done. Unfortunately, I will not be available to do this until June. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com Wed May 21 05:38:46 2008 From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (Bill Christensen) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 22:38:46 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailmain 2.1.9: Filtering Messages based onwords in the body of an email? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 12:20 PM -0700 5/20/08, Mark Sapiro wrote: >Steve wrote: >> >>Is it possible to set up GNU Mailman 2.1.9 to filter on URLs or other >>keywords in the body of an email? > > >Not without implementing a custom handler > >or modifying source code. > Assuming that the rant URLs are known, couldn't he just use the spam filter? -- Bill Christensen Green Building Professionals Directory: Sustainable Building Calendar: Green Real Estate: Straw Bale Registry: Books/videos/software: From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 21 16:20:37 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 07:20:37 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailmain 2.1.9: Filtering Messages basedonwords in the body of an email? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bill Christensen wrote: >At 12:20 PM -0700 5/20/08, Mark Sapiro wrote: >>Steve wrote: >>> >>>Is it possible to set up GNU Mailman 2.1.9 to filter on URLs or other >>>keywords in the body of an email? >> >> >>Not without implementing a custom handler >> >>or modifying source code. >> > >Assuming that the rant URLs are known, couldn't he just use the spam filter? No because Mailman's spam filters only filter on the contents of headers, not the contents of body parts. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rae at gitchee.com Wed May 21 16:26:44 2008 From: rae at gitchee.com (Rae) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 09:26:44 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailmain 2.1.9: Filtering Messages based onwords in the body of an email? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <03ed01c8bb4e$b3a41fa0$1aec5ee0$@com> What commands would you use to set this up in the spam filter? I've tried this without success. Best wishes, Rae -----Original Message----- Assuming that the rant URLs are known, couldn't he just use the spam filter? From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 21 16:47:34 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 07:47:34 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailmain 2.1.9: Filtering Messages basedonwords in the body of an email? In-Reply-To: <03ed01c8bb4e$b3a41fa0$1aec5ee0$@com> Message-ID: Rae wrote: >What commands would you use to set this up in the spam filter? I've tried >this without success. Mailman's spam filters don't filter based on the contents of body parts. They only filter based on headers. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From soapy3 at gmail.com Wed May 21 17:05:44 2008 From: soapy3 at gmail.com (Steve) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 11:05:44 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailmain 2.1.9: Filtering Messages based on words in the body of an email? Message-ID: <171bb3f10805210805q618ae2fet9da49946b26426dd@mail.gmail.com> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Bill Christensen >>> Is it possible to set up GNU Mailman 2.1.9 to filter on URLs or other >>> keywords in the body of an email? > Assuming that the rant URLs are known, couldn't he just use the spam filter? Well, the actual emails carrying the URLs wouldn't be from the same domains, so I couldn't use GNU Mailman to catch those emails by the headers. If by "spam filter" you mean software other than GNU Mailman that wouldn't work for my situation as I do not have access to the server GNU Mailman runs on and I don't want to bother the admin more than I have to as he is graciously providing all of this for free ( including his time ). From b19141 at anl.gov Wed May 21 18:41:50 2008 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 11:41:50 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with 2.1.9 acceptable_aliases Message-ID: <20080521164150.965BC175AA@britaine.cis.anl.gov> There was a posting to a number of lists here yesterday To: comp_info+cats+noc at example.com all of the lists are linked; some of the lists are subscribed to others. I took that address and added it to acceptable_aliases for each of the lists. This morning I saw a posting to the same address held for moderation for the same lists: Reason: Message has implicit destination I thought that adding the address to acceptable_aliases was the method for auto-approving such postings. I am running 2.1.9. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From vancleef at lostwells.net Wed May 21 19:11:03 2008 From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 11:11:03 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailmain 2.1.9: Filtering Messages based on In-Reply-To: <171bb3f10805201205r18556259k6dbb3b3401200f0b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200805211711.m4LHB3R3002490@julie.lostwells.net> The esteemed Steve has said: > > I'm admiring a GNU Mailman email list that is running on version 2.1.9 > on a server that I do not have access too. > > Is it possible through the use of the admin interface to filter out > messages based on key words in the body of an email? > > I have some banned ex-subscribers who periodically resubscribe under > new email addresses to post URLs to rant pages about my list. I > would rather not moderate all new incoming subscribers. I don't want > to slow legitimate users down. The trolls often bury the URLs at the > end of long messages making it easy to miss. > I'll comment on this request from an administrator's perspective. If there is a software solution to the problem of rogues subscribing to a list and using it to disrupt things, I do not know what that would be. Rogues are very good at finding a software trap pattern and changing their tactics to bypass it. Historically, the main list I administer was set up on a listserv system with subscription "by invitation only" in 1998. It was purposely set up to get away from another list that was dominated by trolls, spammers, and flamers. We migrated the list to another system, using Mailman, in 2001. Over the years we have endured several concerted attempts by those who made themselves unwelcome and who were unsubscribed, to resubscribe under false pretenses and do a hit-and-run attack on our list. For several years, there was another mail list, hosted elsewhere, populated by "our enemies," but I think that has more-or-less fallen by the wayside. What has worked for us is a two-fold administrative solution. 1. We do not do software subscription through the Mailman interface. All subscriptions are manually-processed. New subscribers are required to fill out a form that requests real name, address, telephone number, educational level, profession, and birth year and mailed to the moderators through a cgi-bin script. The moderators review these and manually subscribe those who "pass" through the bulk subscription Mailman resource. 2. All new subscriptions are moderated. Once we see a few clean posts from new subscribers, we take them off moderation. Virtually all of the rogues who have managed to get through the subscription screening tip their hand quite quickly. Some offlist e-mail between a moderator and an offender either gets an apology or a flame. Which leads to: 3. Mail lists post messages from humans that are intended to be read by other humans. What is acceptable behavior is strictly human in nature. Sociology, rather than technology, is what will set and maintain standards. It is very important to have moderators who have good skills at guiding group behavior. And, yes, there is moderator workload involved in making this work. Once a list's focal point and demographics are clearly established, almost all issues involving listmember conduct are sociological. > I would prefer not to use procmail or software other than GNU Mailman. > As I wrote the list is made available to me freely on a server that I > do not have access to. I don't want to bother my admin more than I > have to. > Our use of various filter programs is oriented toward reducing spam volume. We do not attempt to use it to detect rogue posts. > Is it possible to set up GNU Mailman 2.1.9 to filter on URLs or other > keywords in the body of an email? > What it is possible to do is one thing. What is practical and effective is another. I've worked in the field of sociology of computer-mediated communications for about thirty years now, and have coded up no end of "good ideas" that more-or-less failed in their objective of reducing human workload. Mailman is rich in resources to handle basics, such as reformatting funny-format MUA text into readable text, stripping off attachments (with or without virii), not allowing postings from non-registered people, and the like. But it does not attempt to use technology to regulate human behavior. My experience suggests that if one is going to run a "clean" mail list, one has to define "clean"---in human sociological terms. And it is going to take humans to set and enforce those standards. Ten years of experience with our list has also made clear that "clean" is a moving target. Hank From mark at msapiro.net Wed May 21 19:11:22 2008 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 10:11:22 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with 2.1.9 acceptable_aliases In-Reply-To: <20080521164150.965BC175AA@britaine.cis.anl.gov> References: <20080521164150.965BC175AA@britaine.cis.anl.gov> Message-ID: <483457BA.1040808@msapiro.net> Barry Finkel wrote: > There was a posting to a number of lists here yesterday > > To: comp_info+cats+noc at example.com > > all of the lists are linked; some of the lists are subscribed to others. > I took that address and added it to > > acceptable_aliases What did you add to acceptable_aliases? And for which list(s)? A post addressed to comp_info+cats+noc at example.com will presumably be delivered to the comp_info list. In order for it not to be held by that list, you need either comp_info+cats+noc at example.com or a regexp like ^comp_info(\+[^@]*)?@example.com in the acceptable_aliases of the comp_info list. Then if other lists are members of the comp_info list, you need the same thing in acceptabale_aliases of those other lists to prevent the post from being held there. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From b19141 at anl.gov Wed May 21 19:45:21 2008 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 12:45:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10 Patch Release? Message-ID: <20080521174521.62FEB175AA@britaine.cis.anl.gov> Mark Sapiro wrote April 23: | I am happy to announce the release of Mailman 2.1.10 >I have discovered a few problems with the release. None is a major show >stopper, but the most significant so far is that I broke cmd_subscribe >so that email subscribe to the -subscribe or -join address or the >- -request address with a bare 'subscribe' command results in the message >being shunted. A patch for this is attached, but I plan to make a patch >release probably next week. Has there been a patch release, or is the one patch all that has been released? I want to start testing, but I do not want to begin testing and then have to build a new package for Ubuntu. Thanks. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From b19141 at anl.gov Wed May 21 20:10:49 2008 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 13:10:49 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with 2.1.9 acceptable_aliases In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Mark Sapiro ' dated: Wed, 21 May 2008 10:11:22 -0700 Message-ID: <20080521181049.48153175AA@britaine.cis.anl.gov> Barry Finkel wrote: > >> There was a posting to a number of lists here yesterday >> >> To: comp_info+cats+noc at example.com >> >> all of the lists are linked; some of the lists are subscribed to others. >> I took that address and added it to >> >> acceptable_aliases And Mark Sapiro replied: >What did you add to acceptable_aliases? And for which list(s)? > >A post addressed to comp_info+cats+noc at example.com will presumably be >delivered to the comp_info list. In order for it not to be held by that >list, you need either > >comp_info+cats+noc at example.com > >or a regexp like > >^comp_info(\+[^@]*)?@example.com > >in the acceptable_aliases of the comp_info list. Then if other lists are >members of the comp_info list, you need the same thing in >acceptabale_aliases of those other lists to prevent the post from being >held there. For each of the five lists for which there was a posting held for moderation I entered comp_info+cats+noc at example.com in the acceptable_aliases box on the admin web page via cut-and-paste. The mailling list that, I assume, is part of the distribution list for this comp_info_cats+noc list is out at example.com That address is an accceptable_alias for the Mailman list out at lists.example.com and to that list is subscribed itad at example.com opstr at lists.example.com In addition itad at example.com is an accceptable_alias for the Mailman list itad at lists.example.com and to that itad list is subscribed three other Mailman lists: ad at lists.anl.gov cs at lists.anl.gov us at lists.anl.gov For each of these six lists (out, itad, opstr, ad, cs, us) I had added comp_info+cats+noc at example.com to accceptable_aliases. The only thing "strange" about the string I added to acceptable_aliases is the two "+" characters. I did not know if the plus characters were causing problems. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From brad at shub-internet.org Wed May 21 20:42:26 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 13:42:26 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailmain 2.1.9: Filtering Messages based on In-Reply-To: <200805211711.m4LHB3R3002490@julie.lostwells.net> References: <200805211711.m4LHB3R3002490@julie.lostwells.net> Message-ID: <48346D12.1050209@shub-internet.org> Hank van Cleef wrote: > 3. Mail lists post messages from humans that are intended to be read > by other humans. What is acceptable behavior is strictly human in > nature. Sociology, rather than technology, is what will set and > maintain standards. It is very important to have moderators who have > good skills at guiding group behavior. And, yes, there is moderator > workload involved in making this work. Once a list's focal point and > demographics are clearly established, almost all issues involving > listmember conduct are sociological. Agreed. Virtually all lists that I've administered where we required confirm+approve and automatically moderated all new users, those lists have never had a spam problem. Well, at least not that the users see -- I may have to filter through dozens or hundreds of spam messages a day that get past the multitudes of layers of anti-spam filters in the MTA, but the users don't see any of that. But all the real controls are social. A sufficiently motivated attacker could easily get past the methods we have employed so far, and do significant damage to the list once they get through. At that point, we would have to deal with the problem in whatever way is necessary, and then try to figure out how to prevent that in the future. But I never lose sight of the fact that we're trying to use technical means to deal with a social problem. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From rae at gitchee.com Wed May 21 21:33:03 2008 From: rae at gitchee.com (Rae) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 14:33:03 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailmain 2.1.9: Filtering Messages basedonwords in the body of an email? In-Reply-To: References: <03ed01c8bb4e$b3a41fa0$1aec5ee0$@com> Message-ID: <01ba01c8bb79$7de75a50$79b60ef0$@com> That is what I suspected but I thought maybe something changed recently so I responded. Thanks for confirming that, Mark. -----Original Message----- >What commands would you use to set this up in the spam filter? I've tried >this without success. Mailman's spam filters don't filter based on the contents of body parts. They only filter based on headers. From cyndi at tikvah.com Wed May 21 21:28:51 2008 From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 12:28:51 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailmain 2.1.9: Filtering Messages based on In-Reply-To: <48346D12.1050209@shub-internet.org> (message from Brad Knowles on Wed, 21 May 2008 13:42:26 -0500) References: <200805211711.m4LHB3R3002490@julie.lostwells.net> <48346D12.1050209@shub-internet.org> Message-ID: <200805211928.m4LJSpvx007330@b.mail.sonic.net> Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 13:42:26 -0500 From: Brad Knowles Agreed. Virtually all lists that I've administered where we required confirm+approve and automatically moderated all new users, those lists have never had a spam problem. Well, at least not that the users see -- I may have to filter through dozens or hundreds of spam messages a day that get past the multitudes of layers of anti-spam filters in the MTA, but the users don't see any of that. But all the real controls are social. A sufficiently motivated attacker could easily get past the methods we have employed so far, and do significant damage to the list once they get through. At that point, we would have to deal with the problem in whatever way is necessary, and then try to figure out how to prevent that in the future. But I never lose sight of the fact that we're trying to use technical means to deal with a social problem. Yes. Technology isn't going to fix the problem of malicious users, though it can greatly reduce spam. I have many of those myself. The most recent appears to be an employee of a business one of my subscribers was complaining about. What software like Mailman can do is to make our job as list owners easier. My post about the ban feature got lost as several other discussions started immediately after. Those were all suggestions on how to make it easier for owners to deal with problem subscribers. The filter by content feature that started this thread would be great too. In my case, I want it to catch the various phrases used for the fake "it's fair use so copyright law doesn't apply" notices. That way I can unmoderate more subscribers and save myself a lot of work. The fewer steps it takes to control our lists, the easier it will be to manage them. Then we can spend more time focusing on content. Cyndi From opensource at unixoses.com Thu May 22 03:42:43 2008 From: opensource at unixoses.com (Paul) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 21:42:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domains In-Reply-To: <200805201702.m4KH22t8017322@defang10.it.ohio-state.edu> References: <200805201702.m4KH22t8017322@defang10.it.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: <1943.192.168.103.1.1211420563.squirrel@bikesn4x4s.com> On Tue, May 20, 2008 1:02 pm, Melinda Gilmore wrote: > I know this has been covered alot and I do see alot of talk in the > archives, but I am new to the whole, mailman/postfix/apache/redhat > world and the instructions are not clear to me because of that. Is > there anyone out there that has the actually settings and what files > to change in postfix, apache, mta, and whatever to get virtual > domains to work. Am I to understand that if I had a list called > something at lists.service.osu.edu (our domain) and I want a virtual > domain to go with it called something at network.org I can get this to work? > I've actually done some testing with the virtual ability. If the domain is set up as a virtual domain in postfix, then one needs to also have all of mailmans aliasing also in postfix aliasing, then it will work. From cite at incertum.net Thu May 22 13:23:02 2008 From: cite at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 13:23:02 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domains In-Reply-To: References: <200805201702.m4KH22t8017322@defang10.it.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: <20080522112301.GE31177@mail.incertum.net> * Mark Sapiro wrote: > Melinda Gilmore wrote: > >> I know this has been covered alot and I do see alot of talk in the >> archives, but I am new to the whole, mailman/postfix/apache/redhat >> world and the instructions are not clear to me because of that. Is >> there anyone out there that has the actually settings and what files >> to change in postfix, apache, mta, and whatever to get virtual >> domains to work. Am I to understand that if I had a list called >> something at lists.service.osu.edu (our domain) and I want a virtual >> domain to go with it called something at network.org I can get this to work? > > > Not exactly. If you have a list named "something" that is currently in > the lists.service.osu.edu domain, you could move it to the network.org > domain, but the whole idea of virtual domains in Mailman is that the > various domains are disjoint (although currently list names still have > to be globally unique). > > If you just want to be able to mail to something at network.org in > addition to mailing to something at lists.service.osu.edu and have either > address go to the list, this would all be done in Postfix and DNS. I think one would have to add something at network.org to acceptable_aliases, too. As a remark, I really think that integration of Mailman into Postfix using relay_domains and postfix-to-mailman.py should be included in the official installation documentation. Postfix's concept of virtual_alias_domains is very poweful and therefore offers lot's of ways you can totally break your mail system if you are inexperienced - you can break recipient validation or introduce mail loops, for example. Any aliasing needed can still be done with virtual_alias_maps if one absolutely _has_ to have aliases. With relay_recipient_maps you get better control about acceptable recipients (although you have to set this up yourself, I didn't see any way in Mailman to handle this in an automatic way). And as a last advantage, on a busy server, I personally would refrain from using Berkeley BD hash tables, because updates to those are not done "atomically" which might seriously break mail to lists if mail arrives while the maps are updated. Using CBD tables help's a lot here, safe for the much smaller memory footprint. Cheers Stefan -- Stefan F?rster http://www.incertum.net/ Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9 Science is what happens when preconception meets verification. From b19141 at anl.gov Thu May 22 16:27:13 2008 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 09:27:13 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with 2.1.9 acceptable_aliases Message-ID: <20080522142713.D3807175AA@britaine.cis.anl.gov> Barry Finkel wrote: >>> There was a posting to a number of lists here yesterday >>> >>> To: comp_info+cats+noc at example.com >>> >>> all of the lists are linked; some of the lists are subscribed to others. >>> I took that address and added it to >>> >>> acceptable_aliases And Mark Sapiro replied: >>What did you add to acceptable_aliases? And for which list(s)? >> >>A post addressed to comp_info+cats+noc at example.com will presumably be >>delivered to the comp_info list. In order for it not to be held by that >>list, you need either >> >>comp_info+cats+noc at example.com >> >>or a regexp like >> >>^comp_info(\+[^@]*)?@example.com >> >>in the acceptable_aliases of the comp_info list. Then if other lists are >>members of the comp_info list, you need the same thing in >>acceptabale_aliases of those other lists to prevent the post from being >>held there. and I replied: >For each of the five lists for which there was a posting held for >moderation I entered > > comp_info+cats+noc at example.com > >in the acceptable_aliases box on the admin web page via cut-and-paste. > >The mailling list that, I assume, is part of the distribution list for >this comp_info_cats+noc list is > > out at example.com > >That address is an accceptable_alias for the Mailman list > > out at lists.example.com > >and to that list is subscribed > > itad at example.com > opstr at lists.example.com > >In addition > > itad at example.com > >is an accceptable_alias for the Mailman list > > itad at lists.example.com > >and to that itad list is subscribed three other Mailman lists: > > ad at lists.anl.gov > cs at lists.anl.gov > us at lists.anl.gov > >For each of these six lists (out, itad, opstr, ad, cs, us) I had added > > comp_info+cats+noc at example.com > >to accceptable_aliases. > >The only thing "strange" about the string I added to acceptable_aliases >is the two "+" characters. I did not know if the plus characters were >causing problems. I ran another test: 1) I set up an e-mail alias a+b at anl.gov that points to an existing test list on my test Mailman 2.1.9 system. 2) Via that test list admin web page, I added a+b at anl.gov to the acceptable_aliases list. This address is the only entry in the list. 3) I sent test mail to a+b at anl.gov and the mail was sent to the moderator (i.e., me) due to "implicit destination" I have not looked at the code, and I am not an expert in regular expressions. I surmise that Mailman is treating the address as a regular expression, which matches ab at anl.gov aab at anl.gov aaab at anl.gov aaaab at anl.gov ... but does not match a+b at anl.gov I then changed the acceptable_aliases to a\+b at anl.gov and test mail was distributed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From savoy at uleth.ca Fri May 23 00:05:05 2008 From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 16:05:05 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] archive/attachment preening Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0B99EDEA@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca> Hi all, We have 870+ mailing lists and about 20 gigs worth of stuff in the private/archives directory. I thought I would do a little spring cleaning, such as sending mail to list owners to see if they still want their lists. But I would also like to pare down the size of the archives directory, which have been allowed to grow wild, using cron jobs. Before I do that, I want to get assurance from this list that I fully understand how the archives are written. We are currently running Mailman v2.1.5 and we'll upgrade to v2.1.10 later this summer. Please confirm the assumptions I am about to make before I write the preening scripts for cron. I also want to write a bunch of scripts that look for certain information. 1) If a list is digestable and archiving was never turned on, then the archives/private/listname/index.html will contain only the originally-created file (which basically says "No messages have been posted to this list yet, so the archives are currently empty"). 2) If there is no mbox file in the /archives/private/listname.mbox directory, then the list has never had archiving turned on. 3) If a list is digestable but there is no attachments directory in /archives/private/listname, then the list has never had a message posted to it. 4) If the list is digestable, and archiving has never been turned on, then files in the archives/private/listname/attachments directory are only useful to already-existing subscribers who have digesting turned on (ie if I poll a list and it has no members subscribed as digest users, then it is safe to delete all files in the attachments tree). If all of my above assumptions are correct, my psuedo-code would do something like this: if (list is not archived and has no digest members) keep stuff in attachments dir for 1 month; if (list is not archived but does have digest members) keep stuff in attachments dir for 1 year; if (list is archived) keep stuff in attachments dir for 3 years; For the archived lists (we have about 150 of them) I will contact the owners first, to warn them that I plan to pare their archive down to 3 years max. If they protest, I will add them as an exception to the rule and skip over them during the cron job run. I know that there is more to be done with regards to reducing the size of archives (ie running arch --wipe on the editted, pared down .mbox file, but I will do that manually). For now I am mostly interesting in keeping the stuff in the attachments directories to a minimum. I realize that deleting stuff in /attachments breaks links in the archive and digest messages, but I think that is reasonable for the really old messages (provided the list owner concurs). One final question. I know that you can change a list's settings with /bin/config_list, but can you poll a list for settings? For example, you can use "/bin/list_members -d" to see which members of a list read in digest mode, but how can I find out which lists have archiving turned on? Or do I have to examine the archives/private tree to garner that kind of info? Thanks! - jim - From b19141 at anl.gov Fri May 23 15:03:29 2008 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 08:03:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.10 has been released Message-ID: <20080523130329.43572175AA@britaine.cis.anl.gov> On April 23 Mark Sapiro wrote: >| I am happy to announce the release of Mailman 2.1.10. > > >I have discovered a few problems with the release. None is a major show >stopper, but the most significant so far is that I broke cmd_subscribe >so that email subscribe to the -subscribe or -join address or the >- -request address with a bare 'subscribe' command results in the message >being shunted. A patch for this is attached, but I plan to make a patch >release probably next week. Has there been a patch release, other than the one -subscribe patch included in that posting? Thanks. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From webct at hccs.edu Fri May 23 17:14:14 2008 From: webct at hccs.edu (webct) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 10:14:14 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! "Recipient list too long" message is held for approval Message-ID: <287735EC-568F-43F7-9112-C2D787178803@hccs.edu> Hi, We are using mailman which comes with Mac OS X server 10.5. I think, I have set it up correctly for most of the part but there is one lingering issue with sending a message with other email addresses. I get "Recipient list too long" error message and the email is held for moderator's approval. How do I make mailman remember to send messages across with long list of recipients. Thanks. fuzbuz. From knabe at 4j.lane.edu Fri May 23 17:48:14 2008 From: knabe at 4j.lane.edu (Knabe, Troy) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 08:48:14 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! "Recipient list too long" message is held for approval In-Reply-To: <287735EC-568F-43F7-9112-C2D787178803@hccs.edu> Message-ID: On 5/23/08 8:14 AM, "webct" wrote: Hi, We are using mailman which comes with Mac OS X server 10.5. I think, I have set it up correctly for most of the part but there is one lingering issue with sending a message with other email addresses. I get "Recipient list too long" error message and the email is held for moderator's approval. How do I make mailman remember to send messages across with long list of recipients. Thanks. fuzbuz. Under "Privacy Optionis" and "Recipient Filters" there is a "Ceiling on acceptable number of recipients for a posting". I believe the default value is 10. This has nothing to do with the number of list members, but the number of other addresses in the To:, CC:, and BCC: fields of the email that causes this be invoked. -Troy ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/knabe%404j.lane.edu Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp From murf at digium.com Fri May 23 19:03:20 2008 From: murf at digium.com (Steve Murphy) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 11:03:20 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Major problems with privacy and mailman lists and harvesters Message-ID: <1211562200.3442.146.camel@digium2> Hello! I'm quite concerned about what I'm seeing in mailman installations, and the amount of spam I've been getting because I participate in mailman based lists! I'm not talking about halting spam that gets submitted to the list for mailing. I'm not talking about spambots automatically joining the lists and submitting spam. What I'm concerned about is the fact that email harvesters are being given so much information. I've noticed in the mailman-users archives, that if I view info by thread (using the mailman archives as an example,) which site is 2.1.10 based, that all email addresses are present, but with a simple obfuscation. (the "@" has been changed to " at ".) I can't help but to think that this simple obfuscation is a joke. Any harvester written in the past number of years would be smart enough to capture such accurately. When viewing the developer's archives, I note that when a message is displayed singly, it is common to see [EMAIL PROTECTED]. This is much nicer, but I notice that in both archives, a button is provided at the bottom of the letter, that submits a form, and gets back both a "Found" page, with a mailto: url, and a redirect to a mailto... so, an anonymous user can easily get/harvest email addresses by simply analyzing the html form. The gzip'd archives by month for both lists both show all email addresses, with the " at " obfuscation. It seems inconsistent, funny even, that display by thread will show individual messages with [EMAIL REMOVED], but the gzip'd archives of the same message reveal, really, everything. And worse... If I really wanted to collect up-to-date juicy email addresses, I'd simply subscribe to all the mailman lists I possibly could, and route all the incoming messages to harvesters. In **This** case, the harvest is bountiful, as most messages arrive totally unfiltered, from headers galore bearing bounteous harvests of email addresses (for example, the From header), to the user sigs at the ends, with reply quotation headers mentioning the source addresses in between. Within MINUTES of my first posting on asterisk-users, I was getting spam on an email address that was brand-new. Since then, the spam volume on that email addr just keeps growing. I keep wondering, which way did they get my email addr? But, it doesn't matter. I can't help to think that 'targeted' spam mailers both spider the archives and subscribe to the lists.The bigger the list's subscription, hotter an item it is. So, please, can we apply the [EMAIL PROTECTED] tech to the archives, and the outgoing messages, and drop this silly notion that the " at " obfuscation is useful? Really, it's totally transparent. NO OBFUSCATION is safe in mailman. There's simply too much Can we drop the buttons from the archives whose HTML says:
Reply via email to
from which spam harvesters can almost instantly be updated to harvest "barb at nleaudiox.com" (modified from the orig to save the innocent author from a deluge of spam, at least on **my** account), without even submitting the form! We need to rethink how we can adequately keep emails out of spammers hands. And, yes, it's kinda unhandy not read a message and not be able to fire an email off to the author directly. But to make it easy for list subscribers, is to make it easy for spammers, who probably have already joined the list, and are delighted to get email addresses, any which way they can. Most discussion on mailing lists do not require any address other than the the mailing list itself. To take a discussion "offline", I propose a few ideas: 1. the mailing list allows the users to specify a phone-number, an irc channel and identity that they can be reached by, or some other method to contact the author, that is NOT an email address. This info is kept private, and the button at the bottom of the archived letters could give you this info. The person wanting to privately discuss the letter could then call the user or contact them via irc/jabber/whatever, and either discuss the matter there and then, or the author could voluntarily give the other party his email address at that time. Or file a list message, and ask the author to contact him, and give out a phone number, whatever. I thought about integrating spamgourmet throw-away email addresses, but really, that wouldn't help. Spammers could simply request, get the throw-away, spam it, and toss it. The user himself is the only one who can usefully hand out throw-away addresses. If you think mailman doesn't have to worry about this sort of thing, keep in mind that mailman has swiftly become probably the top mailing list software on the web. That spammers would not be interested in mining mailing lists for their tens of thousands of valid addresses is foolhardy thinking. That thinking the options that mailman provides now is adequate to keep spammers from harvesting email addrs, is just plain wrong. That datamining and de-obfuscation are NOT being done specifically for mailman lists is wishful thinking. Mailman needs to pay attention to the fact that spammers would **love** to use their mailing list installations to ship spam for them, AND ALSO that spammers will want to harvest email addresses from the web interface AND the mailings themselves. We need to lock down mailman, or at least make it an option! Simply put, in messages sent to users, the only email that should be found anywhere in a recieved message, is the recipient's. In the archived messages, absolutely no email addresses at all. Not even obfuscated. If we follow this pattern, the spammers will not be able to use mailman lists for any useful purpose. They'll have to hack the web sites to get the lists. murf -- Steve Murphy Software Developer Digium From ge at linuxbox.org Fri May 23 19:44:06 2008 From: ge at linuxbox.org (Gadi Evron) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 12:44:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Major problems with privacy and mailman lists and harvesters In-Reply-To: <1211562200.3442.146.camel@digium2> References: <1211562200.3442.146.camel@digium2> Message-ID: Hi Steve. Thank you for your email, it is well researched and conveys your point of view. Your points on inconsistency in protecting email addresses in the archives are interesting. Also, I am no lover of spammers. That said, can you break down your suggestions to those relevant to the inherent FUBAR state of SMTP, mailing list administration choices and policies, and mailman? I don't see how you can prevent a person or bot from subscribing to an open mailing list and harvesting it. Some locking down is not possible, some not wanted, and some not necessary. I find, as I mentioned, the archives point for example very interesting, if anyone was willing to spend the time on making it happen. Gadi. On Fri, 23 May 2008, Steve Murphy wrote: > Hello! > > I'm quite concerned about what I'm seeing in mailman installations, > and the amount of spam I've been getting because I participate in > mailman based lists! > > I'm not talking about halting spam that gets submitted to the list > for mailing. I'm not talking about spambots automatically joining > the lists and submitting spam. > > What I'm concerned about is the fact that email harvesters are being > given so much information. > > I've noticed in the mailman-users archives, that if I view info > by thread (using the mailman archives as an example,) > which site is 2.1.10 based, > that all email addresses are present, but with a simple obfuscation. > (the "@" has been changed to " at ".) I can't help but to think > that this simple obfuscation is a joke. Any harvester written in the > past number of years would be smart enough to capture such accurately. > > When viewing the developer's archives, I note that when a message is > displayed singly, it is common to see [EMAIL PROTECTED]. This is > much nicer, but I notice that in both archives, a button is provided > at the bottom of the letter, that submits a form, and gets back > both a "Found" page, with a mailto: url, and a redirect to a mailto... > so, an anonymous user can easily get/harvest email addresses by simply > analyzing the html form. > > The gzip'd archives by month for both lists both show all email > addresses, with the " at " obfuscation. > > It seems inconsistent, funny even, that display by thread will show > individual messages with [EMAIL REMOVED], but the gzip'd archives > of the same message reveal, really, everything. > > And worse... If I really wanted to collect up-to-date juicy email > addresses, I'd simply subscribe to all the mailman lists I possibly > could, and > route all the incoming messages to harvesters. In **This** case, > the harvest is bountiful, as most messages arrive totally unfiltered, > from headers galore bearing bounteous harvests of email addresses > (for example, the From header), to the user sigs at the ends, with > reply quotation headers mentioning the source addresses in between. > > Within MINUTES of my first posting on asterisk-users, I was getting spam > on an email address that was brand-new. Since then, the spam volume > on that email addr just keeps growing. > > I keep wondering, which way did they get my email addr? > But, it doesn't matter. I can't help to think that 'targeted' > spam mailers both spider the archives and subscribe to the > lists.The bigger the list's subscription, hotter an item it is. > > So, please, can we apply the [EMAIL PROTECTED] tech to the archives, > and the outgoing messages, and drop this silly notion that > the " at " obfuscation is useful? Really, it's totally transparent. > NO OBFUSCATION is safe in mailman. There's simply too much > Can we drop the buttons from the archives whose HTML says: > >
> > > > > Reply via email to
> >
> > from which spam harvesters can almost instantly be updated to harvest "barb at nleaudiox.com" > (modified from the orig to save the innocent author from a deluge of spam, at > least on **my** account), without even submitting the form! > > We need to rethink how we can adequately keep emails out of spammers hands. > And, yes, it's kinda unhandy not read a message and not be able to fire an email > off to the author directly. But to make it easy for list subscribers, is to make it easy > for spammers, who probably have already joined the list, and are delighted > to get email addresses, any which way they can. > > Most discussion on mailing lists do not require any address other than > the the mailing list itself. To take a discussion "offline", I propose a > few ideas: > > 1. the mailing list allows the users to specify a phone-number, > an irc channel and identity that they can be reached by, or some other > method to contact the author, that is NOT an email address. This info > is kept private, and the button at the bottom of the archived letters > could give you this info. The person wanting to privately discuss the > letter could then call the user or contact them via irc/jabber/whatever, > and either discuss the matter there and then, or the author could > voluntarily give the other party his email address at that time. Or > file a list message, and ask the author to contact him, and give out a > phone number, whatever. > > I thought about integrating spamgourmet throw-away email addresses, > but really, that wouldn't help. Spammers could simply request, get > the throw-away, spam it, and toss it. The user himself is the only > one who can usefully hand out throw-away addresses. > > If you think mailman doesn't have to worry about this sort of thing, > keep in mind that mailman has swiftly become probably the top mailing > list software on the web. That spammers would not be interested in > mining mailing lists for their tens of thousands of valid addresses > is foolhardy thinking. That thinking the options that mailman provides > now is adequate to keep spammers from harvesting email addrs, is just > plain wrong. That datamining and de-obfuscation are NOT being done > specifically > for mailman lists is wishful thinking. > > Mailman needs to pay attention to the fact that spammers would **love** > to use their mailing list installations to ship spam for them, AND ALSO > that spammers will want to harvest email addresses from the web > interface > AND the mailings themselves. > > > We need to lock down mailman, or at least make it an option! Simply put, > in messages sent to users, the only email that should be found anywhere > in a recieved message, is the recipient's. > In the archived messages, absolutely no email addresses at all. Not even > obfuscated. If we follow this pattern, the spammers will not be able to > use mailman lists for any useful purpose. They'll have to hack the web > sites > to get the lists. > > > murf > > > -- > Steve Murphy > Software Developer > Digium > From brad at python.org Fri May 23 20:55:54 2008 From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 13:55:54 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Major problems with privacy and mailman lists and harvesters In-Reply-To: <1211562200.3442.146.camel@digium2> References: <1211562200.3442.146.camel@digium2> Message-ID: <4837133A.1040809@python.org> Steve Murphy wrote: > I've noticed in the mailman-users archives, that if I view info > by thread (using the mailman archives as an example,) > which site is 2.1.10 based, > that all email addresses are present, but with a simple obfuscation. > (the "@" has been changed to " at ".) I can't help but to think > that this simple obfuscation is a joke. Any harvester written in the > past number of years would be smart enough to capture such accurately. This is a well-known weakness. Please feel free to upload a suggested patch to , or at least file a Request For Enhancement at . > When viewing the developer's archives, I note that when a message is > displayed singly, it is common to see [EMAIL PROTECTED]. That's the external searchable archives provided by mail-archive.com, which is actually available for both mailman-users and mailman-developers. > The gzip'd archives by month for both lists both show all email > addresses, with the " at " obfuscation. Yup. That's part of the standard internal pipermail archiving process. > Within MINUTES of my first posting on asterisk-users, I was getting spam > on an email address that was brand-new. Since then, the spam volume > on that email addr just keeps growing. We've known that this weakness was a potential issue for years. However, I don't recall our ever hearing a specific case where this weakness was actually being exploited. If you look at those "patches" and "RFE" pages, you'll note that there are a large number of things that people want from Mailman (200-300 things or more per category), and since this is a 100% volunteer-supported project, our developers have limited time and resources to be able to devote to fixing each and every little thing that people have asked for. > We need to rethink how we can adequately keep emails out of spammers hands. Even with better obfuscation, the spammers will always be able to silently subscribe to the lists and harvest addresses that way. There's no way to stop them from doing that. > And, yes, it's kinda unhandy not read a message and not be able to fire an email > off to the author directly. But to make it easy for list subscribers, is to make it easy > for spammers, who probably have already joined the list, and are delighted > to get email addresses, any which way they can. We can't obscure messages that we send out. Otherwise, they wouldn't get delivered. You do have to have some basic understanding of how Internet e-mail works before you can talk intelligently about what could or should be done. > We need to lock down mailman, or at least make it an option! Simply put, > in messages sent to users, the only email that should be found anywhere > in a recieved message, is the recipient's. If a list admin chooses, they can always enable anonymization. But there's a reason why no one wants to do this. Go talk to the people running anonymized lists to understand that problem more fully. On a more general note, the more you break Internet e-mail in order to try to stop the spammers, the more the bastards win. You're continuing to make the critical mistake that everyone else does, which is that you're trying to solve an inherently non-technical problem with technical means. And that is a recipe for guaranteed disaster. Spam is just another form of con job. And if the "oldest profession" is prostitute, then the second oldest profession has to be "con artist". Con jobs have been going on for thousands of years, and there's no evidence that they will ever stop being perpetrated, at least not so long as our species continues to have at least one member still alive. So, you're not *EVER* going to get rid of spam. Give that fight up right now. The best you can do is to try to cut it down to a dull roar, and make sure that you're not one of the lower-hanging fruit. Then always keep in the back of your mind that a sufficiently determined attacker can get through the deepest and most powerful defenses -- if they can assassinate presidents and other government leaders, then they can certainly get through any defenses that people like you and me can afford to create. -- Brad Knowles Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com Fri May 23 20:59:52 2008 From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (Bill Christensen) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 13:59:52 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! "Recipient list too long" message is held for approval In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The acceptable number of recipients can be adjusted at: http:///mailman/admin//privacy/recipient Ceiling on acceptable number of recipients for a posting. (Details for max_num_recipients) Defaults to 10 At 8:48 AM -0700 5/23/08, Knabe, Troy wrote: >On 5/23/08 8:14 AM, "webct" wrote: > >Hi, > >We are using mailman which comes with Mac OS X server 10.5. I think, >I have set it up correctly for most of the part but there is one >lingering issue with sending a message with other email addresses. > >I get "Recipient list too long" error message and the email is held >for moderator's approval. How do I make mailman remember to send >messages across with long list of recipients. > >Thanks. >fuzbuz. > > > >Under "Privacy Optionis" and "Recipient Filters" there is a "Ceiling >on acceptable number of recipients for a posting". I believe the >default value is 10. This has nothing to do with the number of list >members, but the number of other addresses in the To:, CC:, and BCC: >fields of the email that causes this be invoked. > >-Troy > > > >------------------------------------------------------ >Mailman-Users mailing list >Mailman-Users at python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users >Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py >Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ >Unsubscribe: >http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/knabe%404j.lane.edu > >Security Policy: >http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp > >------------------------------------------------------ >Mailman-Users mailing list >Mailman-Users at python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users >Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py >Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ >Unsubscribe: >http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/billc_lists%40greenbuilder.com > >Security Policy: >http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp -- Bill Christensen Green Building Professionals Directory: Sustainable Building Calendar: Green Real Estate: Straw Bale Registry: Books/videos/software: From yahoo at jimpop.com Fri May 23 22:16:26 2008 From: yahoo at jimpop.com (Jim Popovitch) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 16:16:26 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Major problems with privacy and mailman lists and harvesters In-Reply-To: <1211562200.3442.146.camel@digium2> References: <1211562200.3442.146.camel@digium2> Message-ID: <7ff145960805231316t88dfd24j265b7b24c858b7bb@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Steve Murphy wrote: > Within MINUTES of my first posting on asterisk-users, I was getting spam > on an email address that was brand-new. How do you know that it was your archived post that the spammers picked up on? It is also possible that the harvester is an address subscribed to asterisk-users. IMHO, obfuscating the archives achieves little effect other than a false sense of hope. The fact is spammers don't want stale archived email addresses, they want fresh active (i.e. poster's) addresses. Welcome to 2008, ;-) -Jim P. From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org Fri May 23 22:29:54 2008 From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 21:29:54 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Major problems with privacy and mailman lists andharvesters In-Reply-To: <1211562200.3442.146.camel@digium2> References: <1211562200.3442.146.camel@digium2> Message-ID: Steve Murphy wrote: >I'm quite concerned about what I'm seeing in mailman installations, and the amount of spam I've been getting >because I participate in mailman based lists! >What I'm concerned about is the fact that email harvesters are being given so much information. >I've noticed in the mailman-users archives, that if I view info by thread (using the mailman archives as an >example,) which site is 2.1.10 based, that all email addresses are present, but with a simple obfuscation. >(the "@" has been changed to " at ".) I can't help but to think that this simple obfuscation is a joke. Any >harvester written in the past number of years would be smart enough to capture such accurately. When we were looking for a list software package, we came up against this problem. I think the issue here is that the archives are open to anyone (aka public archives), and there is no real way of allowing people to contact anyone off list if the email addresses are protected. That said, there are a number of external archiving solutions around that will do this already, such as MHonArc http://www.mhonarc.org/. >>When viewing the developer's archives, I note that when a message is displayed singly, it is common to see >[EMAIL PROTECTED]. This is much nicer, but I notice that in both archives, a button is provided at the bottom >of the letter, that submits a form, and gets back both a "Found" page, with a mailto: url, and a redirect to a >mailto... >so, an anonymous user can easily get/harvest email addresses by simply analyzing the html form. The email form is done by mail-archive.com, and they are running several honeypots to monitor spam coming in via this method. The FAQ which explains this is at http://www.mail-archive.com/faq.html. [...] >It seems inconsistent, funny even, that display by thread will show individual messages with [EMAIL REMOVED], >but the gzip'd archives of the same message reveal, really, everything. Are you sure you are viewing the same archives? >And worse... If I really wanted to collect up-to-date juicy email addresses, I'd simply subscribe to all the >mailman lists I possibly could, and route all the incoming messages to harvesters. In **This** case, the >harvest is bountiful, as most messages arrive totally unfiltered, from headers galore bearing bounteous >harvests of email addresses (for example, the From header), to the user sigs at the ends, with reply quotation >headers mentioning the source addresses in between. This is a problem with email not Mailman. Do you see Freelists, YahooGroups or Google Groups doing similar? >Within MINUTES of my first posting on asterisk-users, I was getting spam on an email address that was brand->new. Since then, the spam volume on that email addr just keeps growing. That is interesting as I have subscribed to several lists using a list account at work which are on Mailman - namely RedHat and LUG user groups, and I haven't had spam to that address in ages. Contrast this with my main work address, which I use to sign up for email newsletters (when evaluating products), use as sales contacts, fill in web forms etc, where I get around 40-50 spams a day. >I keep wondering, which way did they get my email addr? >But, it doesn't matter. I can't help to think that 'targeted' >spam mailers both spider the archives and subscribe to the lists.The bigger the list's subscription, hotter an >item it is. Maybe you should post this to one of the mail-archive lists, to see if the people controlling the honeypots are finding similar. >So, please, can we apply the [EMAIL PROTECTED] tech to the archives, and the outgoing messages, and drop this >silly notion that the " at " obfuscation is useful? Really, it's totally transparent. Possibly agreeing with you viz the archiving via the web, but I for one would never use such a feature as email protection on any of my lists for email subscribers. Andrew. From metaperl at gmail.com Sat May 24 02:36:47 2008 From: metaperl at gmail.com (Terrence Brannon) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 20:36:47 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] high memory usage and long running time for mailman Python process Message-ID: <4837631F.9030107@gmail.com> Hello, I am running Debian/etch and the user "list" has a Python process which takes up 83.2% of my memory and has been running for more than 40 minutes. My suspicion is that some sort of queue of moderator messages is very large. In fact, /var/lib/mailman/ is very large... I cannot access the administrator interface via the web: 6733 ./qfiles 21551 ./messages 60071 ./lists/asciidoc-discuss 60093 ./lists 288500 ./data 380881 . In looking through archives, I discovered I have more than 60,000 held messages for one mailing list: schemelab at li2-168:/var/lib/mailman/data$ ls -l | wc -l 64688 but for some reason attempting to discard even one is not working... it just sits there and hangs: schemelab at li2-168:/var/lib/mailman/data$ sudo ../bin/discard heldmsg-asciidoc-discuss-59527.pck Password: (no return to shell after 5 minutes) From mwelch at redwoodalliance.org Sat May 24 04:16:41 2008 From: mwelch at redwoodalliance.org (Michael Welch) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 19:16:41 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Major problems with privacy and mailman lists and harvesters In-Reply-To: <1211562200.3442.146.camel@digium2> References: <1211562200.3442.146.camel@digium2> Message-ID: <20080524021647.220D5181075@friskymail-a3.g.dreamhost.com> Steve Murphy wrote at 10:03 AM 5/23/2008: >I've noticed in the mailman-users archives, that if I view info by thread (using the mailman archives as an example,) which site is 2.1.10 based, that all email addresses are present, but with a simple obfuscation. (the "@" has been changed to " at ".) I can't help but to think that this simple obfuscation is a joke. Any harvester written in the past number of years would be smart enough to capture such accurately. I think the Topica listserver had a great way to deal with email addresses in archives. You could see a semblance of the email address, but no way could you deduce the real address. If you are logged into the site, each is still obscured, but is a live link that opens up an email-like dialog box -- with the real address still obscured. But it does send an email to the real address for the obscured address. Pretty good way of dealing with the problem, but I have no idea if something like this could be coded into Mailman archives. - - - - - - - - - - - - Michael Welch, volunteer Redwood Alliance PO Box 293 Arcata, CA 95518 707-822-7884 mwelch at redwoodalliance.org www.redwoodalliance.org From billc_lists at greenbuilder.com Sat May 24 05:38:47 2008 From: billc_lists at greenbuilder.com (Bill Christensen) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 22:38:47 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Major problems with privacy and mailman lists and harvesters In-Reply-To: <1211562200.3442.146.camel@digium2> References: <1211562200.3442.146.camel@digium2> Message-ID: When creating archives for one of the lists I run (until recently with another listserv software) I wrote a relatively simple find/replace grep which replaces the domain names so that email addresses become billc at ... In this case, the list itself is by invitation only but the archives are open to all, so the list members can figure out who the posters are easily enough and some non listmembers may as well, but the spammers won't have a clue. Having just moved over to Mailman recently I have yet to implement that fix on my lists but I hope to do so in the fairly near future. Another trick that I've used with our web databases is to assign an ID to a user and create a spam-resistant mail form which doesn't display the email address in the source code, but instead retrieves it via the ID behind the scenes when the email is sent. It's probably similar to the Topica method that Michael Welch posted about, and it works fairly well for us (though in the last couple of weeks someone found their way around it. I still need to figure out the hole and plug it up). The big problem I see with implementing most of the anti-spam tricks I employ as a relatively small web developer on as large a scale as incorporating them into Mailman is that with enough motivation and a little research a spammer could still script around them and exploit Mailman lists, either by harvesting or direct sending. They're typically not overly motivated to do so for our little market, but with all the Mailman lists out there it would certainly be a target. At 11:03 AM -0600 5/23/08, Steve Murphy wrote: >Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=sha1; > protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; > boundary="=-xE9PbKG5Tri4f0crMNni" > >Hello! > >I'm quite concerned about what I'm seeing in mailman installations, >and the amount of spam I've been getting because I participate in >mailman based lists! > >I'm not talking about halting spam that gets submitted to the list >for mailing. I'm not talking about spambots automatically joining >the lists and submitting spam. > >What I'm concerned about is the fact that email harvesters are being >given so much information. > >I've noticed in the mailman-users archives, that if I view info >by thread (using the mailman archives as an example,) >which site is 2.1.10 based, >that all email addresses are present, but with a simple obfuscation. >(the "@" has been changed to " at ".) I can't help but to think >that this simple obfuscation is a joke. Any harvester written in the >past number of years would be smart enough to capture such accurately. > >When viewing the developer's archives, I note that when a message is >displayed singly, it is common to see [EMAIL PROTECTED]. This is >much nicer, but I notice that in both archives, a button is provided >at the bottom of the letter, that submits a form, and gets back >both a "Found" page, with a mailto: url, and a redirect to a mailto... >so, an anonymous user can easily get/harvest email addresses by simply >analyzing the html form. > >The gzip'd archives by month for both lists both show all email >addresses, with the " at " obfuscation. > >It seems inconsistent, funny even, that display by thread will show >individual messages with [EMAIL REMOVED], but the gzip'd archives >of the same message reveal, really, everything. > >And worse... If I really wanted to collect up-to-date juicy email >addresses, I'd simply subscribe to all the mailman lists I possibly >could, and >route all the incoming messages to harvesters. In **This** case, >the harvest is bountiful, as most messages arrive totally unfiltered, >from headers galore bearing bounteous harvests of email addresses >(for example, the From header), to the user sigs at the ends, with >reply quotation headers mentioning the source addresses in between. > >Within MINUTES of my first posting on asterisk-users, I was getting spam >on an email address that was brand-new. Since then, the spam volume >on that email addr just keeps growing. > >I keep wondering, which way did they get my email addr? >But, it doesn't matter. I can't help to think that 'targeted' >spam mailers both spider the archives and subscribe to the >lists.The bigger the list's subscription, hotter an item it is. > >So, please, can we apply the [EMAIL PROTECTED] tech to the archives, >and the outgoing messages, and drop this silly notion that >the " at " obfuscation is useful? Really, it's totally transparent. >NO OBFUSCATION is safe in mailman. There's simply too much >Can we drop the buttons from the archives whose HTML says: > >
> > > > >Reply via email to
> >
> >from which spam harvesters can almost instantly be updated to >harvest "barb at nleaudiox.com" >(modified from the orig to save the innocent author from a deluge of spam, at >least on **my** account), without even submitting the form! > >We need to rethink how we can adequately keep emails out of spammers hands. >And, yes, it's kinda unhandy not read a message and not be able to >fire an email >off to the author directly. But to make it easy for list >subscribers, is to make it easy >for spammers, who probably have already joined the list, and are delighted >to get email addresses, any which way they can. > >Most discussion on mailing lists do not require any address other than >the the mailing list itself. To take a discussion "offline", I propose a >few ideas: > >1. the mailing list allows the users to specify a phone-number, >an irc channel and identity that they can be reached by, or some other >method to contact the author, that is NOT an email address. This info >is kept private, and the button at the bottom of the archived letters >could give you this info. The person wanting to privately discuss the >letter could then call the user or contact them via irc/jabber/whatever, >and either discuss the matter there and then, or the author could >voluntarily give the other party his email address at that time. Or >file a list message, and ask the author to contact him, and give out a >phone number, whatever. > >I thought about integrating spamgourmet throw-away email addresses, >but really, that wouldn't help. Spammers could simply request, get >the throw-away, spam it, and toss it. The user himself is the only >one who can usefully hand out throw-away addresses. > >If you think mailman doesn't have to worry about this sort of thing, >keep in mind that mailman has swiftly become probably the top mailing >list software on the web. That spammers would not be interested in >mining mailing lists for their tens of thousands of valid addresses >is foolhardy thinking. That thinking the options that mailman provides >now is adequate to keep spammers from harvesting email addrs, is just >plain wrong. That datamining and de-obfuscation are NOT being done >specifically >for mailman lists is wishful thinking. > >Mailman needs to pay attention to the fact that spammers would **love** >to use their mailing list installations to ship spam for them, AND ALSO >that spammers will want to harvest email addresses from the web >interface >AND the mailings themselves. > > >We need to lock down mailman, or at least make it an option! Simply put, >in messages sent to users, the only email that should be found anywhere >in a recieved message, is the recipient's. >In the archived messages, absolutely no email addresses at all. Not even >obfuscated. If we follow this pattern, the spammers will not be able to >use mailman lists for any useful purpose. They'll have to hack the web >sites >to get the lists. > > >murf > > >-- >Steve Murphy >Software Developer >Digium > >------------------------------------------------------ >Mailman-Users mailing list >Mailman-Users at python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users >Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py >Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ >Unsubscribe: >http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/billc_lists%40greenbuilder.com > >Security Policy: >http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp -- Bill Christensen Green Building Professionals Directory: Sustainable Building Calendar: Green Real Estate: Straw Bale Registry: Books/videos/software: From andrew at hodgsonfamily.org Sat May 24 12:04:50 2008 From: andrew at hodgsonfamily.org (Andrew Hodgson) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 11:04:50 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Major problems with privacy and mailman lists and harvesters In-Reply-To: <20080524021647.220D5181075@friskymail-a3.g.dreamhost.com> References: <1211562200.3442.146.camel@digium2> <20080524021647.220D5181075@friskymail-a3.g.dreamhost.com> Message-ID: Michael Welch wrote: [Regarding obscuring email addresses in archives] >I think the Topica listserver had a great way to deal with email addresses in archives. You could see a >semblance of the email address, but no way could you deduce the real address. If you are logged into the site, >each is still obscured, but is a live link that opens up an email-like dialog box -- with the real address >still obscured. But it does send an email to the real address for the obscured address. The problem I can see with that is it may not work well on a public archive, and if we wanted a private archive, we would need to protect the users from spammers signing into the system, and sending a whole bunch of emails, possibly through the server running the archives! Andrew. From andReadG at otenet.gr Sat May 24 14:23:07 2008 From: andReadG at otenet.gr (andReadG) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 15:23:07 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] custom mime precedence? Message-ID: <483808AB.3080808@otenet.gr> Hi all! This is the situation: attachments are stripped (which is as I intended), but many messages come in as multipart, with 1st part as text/plain and second one as text/html. The senders, intended to send the 2nd one (formatted to draw attention in specific parts), but, being treated as attachment, stays at the server. Is there a way around? I mean extract and keep all non-text attachments for http download, but exclude text/html and let it through along with the plain text, or be preferred over it? any help/suggestion will be greatly appreciated! tAndRead From metaperl at gmail.com Sat May 24 15:10:25 2008 From: metaperl at gmail.com (Terrence Brannon) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 09:10:25 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why am I being ignored??? Message-ID: <483813C1.9030305@gmail.com> I posted this and basically the whole list is having other discussions like I never even posted... From srb at umich.edu Sat May 24 17:04:32 2008 From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 11:04:32 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why am I being ignored??? In-Reply-To: <483813C1.9030305@gmail.com> References: <483813C1.9030305@gmail.com> Message-ID: --On May 24, 2008 9:10:25 AM -0400 Terrence Brannon wrote: > I posted this > > and basically the whole list is having other discussions like I never > even posted... To which I reply: So, let's see. You posted your original message at 5:37pm PST on the Friday before a holiday weekend, and at 6:10am the following morning, you complain that no one as helped you yet? Yeah, that makes sense. Don't want much for free, do you? -- Steve Burling University of Michigan, ICPSR Voice: +1 734 615.3779 330 Packard Street FAX: +1 734 647.8700 Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910 From vancleef at lostwells.net Sat May 24 17:56:10 2008 From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 09:56:10 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why am I being ignored??? In-Reply-To: <483813C1.9030305@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200805241556.m4OFuAvQ006892@julie.lostwells.net> The esteemed Terrence Brannon has said: > > I posted this > > and basically the whole list is having other discussions like I never > even posted... > Ignored? I may have missed something but the one lively discussion I've seen here in the past few hours (you posted at 17:37 CDT yesterday and are following up at 06:10) has been about spam handling, which is a topic that every sysadmin knows about and deals with no matter what mail programs they are running. And I think that most of the discussion has been between sysadmins. I will qualify my comments by stating that I am neither a Mailman nor a Python developer. I'm just another sysadmin running Mailman 2.1.9 and Python 2.4.3, locally compiled, on a Solaris 9 system, who is building up a 2.1.10 Solaris 10 upgrade. Aside from the fact that "Debian/etch" only tells me you are running Linux, which is off my turf, I don't see some basic information that is probably needed to help you. What version of Mailman? What version of Python? Are these local compiles from source, or are they prepackaged versions downloaded from elsewhere (rpm files or whatever Debian uses for precompiled packages)? If prepackaged, where did they come from? Is this a new installation, or one that has been running for a while? If I read you correctly, you've got a Python module running in some sort of a loop. What's the name of the module? Have you checked basics, such as whether your Qrunners are all running? Have you tried stopping and restarting Mailman. Are you continuing to try to analyze and debug your problems (Mailman, MTA, Apache log reading, determining what's in the files that are not being processed, etc.)? Have you trolled through the Mailman FAQ for clues? Or are you just sitting there waiting for somebody---anybody--- to give you the magic answer. (Sorry, I don't have that). I don't know where the Mailman developers are this fine Memorial Day Weekend Saturday morning. Maybe out playing golf. They are volunteers, donating their time, and that last thing I expect is to have them jump when somebody says "frog." In the meantime, I'd suggest that you gather up the basic configuration information, provide it here, and continue your own debugging efforts. Hank From brad at shub-internet.org Sat May 24 18:22:00 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 11:22:00 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why am I being ignored??? In-Reply-To: <483813C1.9030305@gmail.com> References: <483813C1.9030305@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/24/08, Terrence Brannon wrote: > I posted this > > and basically the whole list is having other discussions like I never > even posted... I didn't respond because I basically don't have any answers for you. There's the standard stuff in the FAQ about large qrunner processes and the command-line programs, but your situation seems to be a bit different from what they're talking about, so it didn't seem relevant to me to refer you to those FAQ items. At this point, all I can suggest is that you either wait longer for bin/discard to do it's thing, or you manually remove the relevant files with rm. Of course, you'll probably want to do that while Mailman is shut down, and you'll want to move aside and remake all relevant subdirectories because once a directory has gotten large (like tens or hundreds of thousands of files), it will never get smaller again and that will always hurt directory access times from that point forward. In other words, basic sysadmin stuff. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From terri at zone12.com Sat May 24 22:02:01 2008 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 16:02:01 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] custom mime precedence? In-Reply-To: <483808AB.3080808@otenet.gr> References: <483808AB.3080808@otenet.gr> Message-ID: <37A809CA-9497-4565-9D19-DEA708328F2C@zone12.com> On 24-May-08, at 8:23 AM, andReadG wrote: > Hi all! > > This is the situation: attachments are stripped > (which is as I intended), but many messages > come in as multipart, with 1st part as text/plain > and second one as text/html. The senders, intended > to send the 2nd one (formatted to draw attention > in specific parts), but, being treated as > attachment, stays at the server. > > Is there a way around? I mean extract and keep > all non-text attachments for http download, > but exclude text/html and let it through along > with the plain text, or be preferred over it? > What does your pass_mime_types look like for this list? If you tell it to let text/html through, as well as text/plain, people will get the double messages the way they were sent, but most mail clients handle that gracefully the way the sender intended. You want something that looks like this: multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain text/html multipart/signed Terri From starman617 at aol.com Sun May 25 04:31:18 2008 From: starman617 at aol.com (Todd Andrews) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 19:31:18 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to import a list of members? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4838CF76.1040905@aol.com> Hello Michael Lynne and other list members, I'm looking for an easy way to update the real names ONLY for members already on the list. I've studied FAQ "3.53. Additional web administration tools?" (http://tinyurl.com/4r553c) and Michael Lynne's curl wrapper (http://tinyurl.com/5gug8d) but I can't find a place where the CGI's are documented to know how I could write a curl wrapper to do what I want. I don't have direct access to the command line tools or binaries because I'm using mailman provided by a hosting service. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Kind regards, Todd Andrews From metaperl at gmail.com Sun May 25 07:49:55 2008 From: metaperl at gmail.com (Terrence Brannon) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 01:49:55 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Commercial support options? Message-ID: <4838FE03.1040504@gmail.com> I think some of the responders to me had a point. This is high quality software. It deserves financial support. If I'm a happy user, then I can show my appreciation by funding support for my problem. But I dont see any commercial support options at http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman From andReadG at otenet.gr Sun May 25 17:23:11 2008 From: andReadG at otenet.gr (andReadG) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 18:23:11 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] selective mime 'scrubbing' (WITHOUT filtering) In-Reply-To: <37A809CA-9497-4565-9D19-DEA708328F2C@zone12.com> References: <483808AB.3080808@otenet.gr> <37A809CA-9497-4565-9D19-DEA708328F2C@zone12.com> Message-ID: <4839845F.5040406@otenet.gr> hi all (again) my initial question was: "custom mime precedence?" I was asking if I can let the text/html part of a multipart(/alternative) message pass through when when preceded by the text/plain part AND followed by something like an application/pdf part, but keep the pdf in the server (not filtered-out; kept in the archive for http download) The (1st) answer I got seems I was misunderstood (but thanks anyway Terri). I was advised to see the 'pass_mime_types' variable (to include text/html) -BUT- I have the 'scrub_nondigest' set to true, so (simple) filtering is of no help (nor desired; I don't want the pdf (or any base64 part) phased out, I just want it stay in the archive area with a link leading to it in the delivered mail) My first impression is that this cannot be done, at least with the 2.1.6 version I use. Is this true? Can this be solved If I upgrade the version? Again, any suggestion will be of great help! (as always!) p.s. here is the initial question: > This is the situation: attachments are stripped > (which is as I intended), but many messages > come in as multipart, with 1st part as text/plain > and second one as text/html. The senders, intended > to send the 2nd one (formatted to draw attention > in specific parts), but, being treated as > attachment, stays at the server. > > Is there a way around? I mean extract and keep > all non-text attachments for http download, > but exclude text/html and let it through along > with the plain text, or be preferred over it? and the 1st answer: >> What does your pass_mime_types look like for this list? >> If you tell it to let text/html through, as well as >> text/plain, people will get the double messages the way they >> were sent, but most mail clients handle that gracefully the >> way the sender intended. >> >> You want something that looks like this: >> multipart/mixed >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain >> text/html >> multipart/signed From brad at shub-internet.org Sun May 25 19:55:27 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 12:55:27 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] selective mime 'scrubbing' (WITHOUT filtering) In-Reply-To: <4839845F.5040406@otenet.gr> References: <483808AB.3080808@otenet.gr> <37A809CA-9497-4565-9D19-DEA708328F2C@zone12.com> <4839845F.5040406@otenet.gr> Message-ID: On 5/25/08, andReadG wrote: > I have the 'scrub_nondigest' set to true, so > (simple) filtering is of no help (nor desired; > I don't want the pdf (or any base64 part) phased > out, I just want it stay in the archive area > with a link leading to it in the delivered > mail) That's what scrub_nondigest does -- it will strip the PDF attachment and replace it with a link to where you can download it from the web server. The rest should be achievable by appropriate settings of the MIME types that are either passed or removed, for those parts you don't want scrubbed. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From metaperl at gmail.com Sun May 25 20:43:00 2008 From: metaperl at gmail.com (Terrence Brannon) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 14:43:00 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] all held message discarded but request.pck is still very large and incomingRUnner is eating a lot of memory Message-ID: <4839B334.6090809@gmail.com> I need to get this memory usage issue fixed... and payment is definitely an option. schemelab at li2-168:/var/lib/mailman/lists/asciidoc-discuss$ ls -l total 74294 -rw-rw---- 1 list list 17344 May 25 14:23 config.pck -rw-rw---- 1 list list 17290 May 25 13:48 config.pck.last -rw-rw---- 1 list list 101495 May 25 14:23 pending.pck -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 44699421 May 25 14:18 request.pck -rw-rw-r-- 1 list list 30939136 May 25 14:37 request.pck.tmp schemelab at li2-168:/var/lib/mailman/lists/asciidoc-discuss$ ps waxu |grep python list 28471 0.0 0.0 8696 4 ? Ss 07:27 0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start list 28480 0.0 0.2 8508 776 ? S 07:27 0:02 /usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s list 28481 0.0 0.2 9180 868 ? S 07:27 0:03 /usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s list 28482 0.0 0.7 8744 2576 ? S 07:27 0:06 /usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s list 28483 0.0 0.0 8352 164 ? S 07:27 0:00 /usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s list 28686 0.0 0.2 8312 760 ? S 07:52 0:02 /usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s list 28688 0.0 0.2 8724 1068 ? S 07:53 0:02 /usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s list 28691 0.0 0.2 8352 772 ? S 07:55 0:01 /usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s list 28692 1.4 72.0 305108 256536 ? R 07:55 5:48 /usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s 1000 30745 0.0 0.1 1644 556 tty0 S+ 14:39 0:00 grep python s From lac at openend.se Mon May 26 08:59:10 2008 From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 08:59:10 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords Message-ID: <200805260659.m4Q6xA53018624@theraft.openend.se> Here's the situation: I site I know has several hundred mailman mailing lists. Most lists are administed by 2 or 3 different people. Most people who administer at least one list, administer 10 or more. It is a pain to remember all the list passwords, and people are complaining that it is insecure to have them all written down. On the other hand, it is politically impossible to give out the site password. So what people _want_ is a way to log in with a password and then have mailman recognise them and make it possible for them to administer all the lists they run. I don't see any way to do this. Am I missing something, or will this require code? Laura Creighton From cyndi at tikvah.com Mon May 26 10:19:53 2008 From: cyndi at tikvah.com (Cyndi Norwitz) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 01:19:53 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords In-Reply-To: <200805260659.m4Q6xA53018624@theraft.openend.se> (message from Laura Creighton on Mon, 26 May 2008 08:59:10 +0200) References: <200805260659.m4Q6xA53018624@theraft.openend.se> Message-ID: <200805260819.m4Q8Jrfb016110@b.mail.sonic.net> This isn't exactly what you're asking for but... I have a mere 5 MM lists. I use the same password for 4 of them and then use Firefox to access the interfaces. FF remembers the password for each site for me. As long as I'm on the same computer as before, it just lets me in after a password confirmation page (filled in for me). Your site simply has to not interfere with this function. What is a pain for me to remember is the link to get to each interface. I use a custom page for my new window/tab page in FF. It has them listed so I can click and go. My method doesn't work if you have to share your computer and can't risk having passwords in there. And using the same password doesn't work if you have different combinations of people co-administrating the lists. It's also something the individual has to set up, as opposed to you providing a solution for your users. I do like your idea though of having one main account per person which will then give you allowed access to all the lists you own or moderate (and subscribe to). Don't know how doable it is though... Cyndi From stephen at xemacs.org Mon May 26 20:19:42 2008 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 03:19:42 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords In-Reply-To: <200805260819.m4Q8Jrfb016110@b.mail.sonic.net> References: <200805260659.m4Q6xA53018624@theraft.openend.se> <200805260819.m4Q8Jrfb016110@b.mail.sonic.net> Message-ID: <87r6bprkqp.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Cyndi Norwitz writes: > What is a pain for me to remember is the link to get to each interface. I > use a custom page for my new window/tab page in FF. It has them listed so > I can click and go. What I do is to create a bookmark folder in FireFox containing a bookmark for each list such as Name: NAME-OF-LIST URL: http://HOST/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/LIST?adminpw=PASSWORD (ISTR I first heard of this from Barry Warsaw.) If I wanted that to be secure and/or portable, I'd put it in an HTML file on a USB stick. It would be easy to generate such files, and any security risk would be restricted to the lists managed by people who scatter such information around for snoops to see, which is about the best you can do. I believe that FireFox at least can import such pages as bookmark folders. I realize that this is less than what really *should* be possible in this day and age, but I hope it helps. > I do like your idea though of having one main account per person which will > then give you allowed access to all the lists you own or moderate (and > subscribe to). Don't know how doable it is though... This is definitely coming in Mailman 3, since user management will be separated from individual lists. The same mechanism can surely be adapted to admin account management. From murf at digium.com Tue May 27 00:11:22 2008 From: murf at digium.com (Steve Murphy) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 17:11:22 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Major problems with privacy and mailman lists and harvesters In-Reply-To: <2646970.6471211839723427.JavaMail.root@jupiler.digium.com> Message-ID: <9620704.6491211839882165.JavaMail.root@jupiler.digium.com> ----- "Brad Knowles" wrote: > Steve Murphy wrote: > > > I've noticed in the mailman-users archives, that if I view info > > by thread (using the mailman archives as an example,) > > which site is 2.1.10 based, > > that all email addresses are present, but with a simple obfuscation. > > (the "@" has been changed to " at ".) I can't help but to think > > that this simple obfuscation is a joke. Any harvester written in the > > past number of years would be smart enough to capture such accurately. > > This is a well-known weakness. Please feel free to upload a suggested patch > to , > or at least file a Request For Enhancement at > . > OK, I'll look into this. > > When viewing the developer's archives, I note that when a message is > > displayed singly, it is common to see [EMAIL PROTECTED]. > > That's the external searchable archives provided by mail-archive.com, which > is actually available for both mailman-users and mailman-developers. > Ah-ha! I had not noticed this. A third party was involved... hmmm! > > The gzip'd archives by month for both lists both show all email > > addresses, with the " at " obfuscation. > > Yup. That's part of the standard internal pipermail archiving process. > > > Within MINUTES of my first posting on asterisk-users, I was getting spam > > on an email address that was brand-new. Since then, the spam volume > > on that email addr just keeps growing. > > We've known that this weakness was a potential issue for years. However, I > don't recall our ever hearing a specific case where this weakness was > actually being exploited. > > If you look at those "patches" and "RFE" pages, you'll note that there are a > large number of things that people want from Mailman (200-300 things or more > per category), and since this is a 100% volunteer-supported project, our > developers have limited time and resources to be able to devote to fixing > each and every little thing that people have asked for. > Yes, I know. I'm working on Asterisk, another free-software package. I bet it's the same basic situation. I'll put my code where my mouth is, if everybody agrees that it's the way to go. > > We need to rethink how we can adequately keep emails out of spammers hands. > > Even with better obfuscation, the spammers will always be able to silently > subscribe to the lists and harvest addresses that way. There's no way to > stop them from doing that. > Agreed. But I'm not at all for any kind of obfuscation. I'm for removal. If we do a good job of subtracting email addresses from outgoing messages, and out of the archives, eventually the spammers will give up on lists so configured. Not worth the effort. But that's their choice. Personally, I'd love for them to waste tons of resources on harvesting addresses that are not there. > > And, yes, it's kinda unhandy not read a message and not be able to fire an email > > off to the author directly. But to make it easy for list subscribers, is to make it easy > > for spammers, who probably have already joined the list, and are delighted > > to get email addresses, any which way they can. > > We can't obscure messages that we send out. Otherwise, they wouldn't get > delivered. You do have to have some basic understanding of how Internet > e-mail works before you can talk intelligently about what could or should be > done. > I **thought"" I understood the basics of email workings. What I'm targeting is the "From ", and "From:" headers. Instead of them giving the actual email of the original submitter, they could simply say "whateverlist at lists.whateverdomain.com" -- in other words, set the from addr to the list address itself. All emails that might appear in the body of the message itself will be stripped (with [EMAIL REMOVED] type stuff to replace it, as a service to list members, to help protect them from being harvested. Again, No Obfuscations. It is common practice to say "John Doe ", in which case, the name is left alone. It would be stripped to "John Doe <{REMOVED]>" What's not-doable about this? Am I missing something? I can be incredibly dense at times, and miss some pretty obvious laws of nature. Feel free to correct me. IIRC, the spammers forge the From addresses all the time, and the emails get delivered. > > We need to lock down mailman, or at least make it an option! Simply put, > > in messages sent to users, the only email that should be found anywhere > > in a recieved message, is the recipient's. > > If a list admin chooses, they can always enable anonymization. But there's > a reason why no one wants to do this. Go talk to the people running > anonymized lists to understand that problem more fully. > That I will do. But I'm not really into total anonymity. Just email addr removal. > On a more general note, the more you break Internet e-mail in order to try > to stop the spammers, the more the bastards win. > > You're continuing to make the critical mistake that everyone else does, > which is that you're trying to solve an inherently non-technical problem > with technical means. And that is a recipe for guaranteed disaster. Well, you are right to a degree. First, we could rate complete email address removal as the "Ultra" privacy option for a mailing list, and not everybody will opt for it, because taking a discussion "offline" will not be a 1-click process. Sorry. And users *could* use email-obfuscation to hide email addresses from the removal process, letting them leak into the list and archives to make it easier for people to reach the submitter. But I see this whole process as a way to reduce the chances that the spammers get your email address. No guarantees. One of your friends could go into an e-card site and use them to send you a nice birthday card. and a ton of spam. > > > Spam is just another form of con job. And if the "oldest profession" is > prostitute, then the second oldest profession has to be "con artist". Con > jobs have been going on for thousands of years, and there's no evidence that > they will ever stop being perpetrated, at least not so long as our species > continues to have at least one member still alive. > > So, you're not *EVER* going to get rid of spam. Give that fight up right > now. The best you can do is to try to cut it down to a dull roar, and make > sure that you're not one of the lower-hanging fruit. > > Then always keep in the back of your mind that a sufficiently determined > attacker can get through the deepest and most powerful defenses -- if they > can assassinate presidents and other government leaders, then they can > certainly get through any defenses that people like you and me can afford to > create. > Yes, I'm very aware of all this. I've done my fair share of scouring emails for web addresses, and calling hacked sites to inform them they were being used for a scam, among other activities to fight the cons that I won't go into. All I want to do is see if we can reduce the leakage of email addresses in mailman from firehose proportions to something less. murf > -- > Brad Knowles > Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the > mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists > -- Steve Murphy Software Developer Digium From murf at digium.com Tue May 27 00:30:24 2008 From: murf at digium.com (Steve Murphy) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 17:30:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Major problems with privacy and mailman lists and harvesters In-Reply-To: <5489693.6561211840935223.JavaMail.root@jupiler.digium.com> Message-ID: <4701099.6581211841024944.JavaMail.root@jupiler.digium.com> ----- "Jim Popovitch" wrote: > On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Steve Murphy wrote: > > Within MINUTES of my first posting on asterisk-users, I was getting spam > > on an email address that was brand-new. > > How do you know that it was your archived post that the spammers > picked up on? It is also possible that the harvester is an address > subscribed to asterisk-users. I have not yet had the time to invest to scientifically prove that the spammers got my address from gleaning the list or archives. But it might be fun to do. Get an account at spamgourmet, or equiv. Sign up to a series of lists, having all list submissions go to unique-to-list throw-away addrs. Post a few messages, and then close down the mailman account, after the messages go out. Watch the throw-away accounts, and see if they get spammed. I **have** verified that the w3.org mailing list is responsible for one throw-way getting spammed. (and big-time, at that!) > > IMHO, obfuscating the archives achieves little effect other than a > false sense of hope. The fact is spammers don't want stale archived > email addresses, they want fresh active (i.e. poster's) addresses. > > Welcome to 2008, ;-) I totally agree. We need to filter out *all* addresses from the outgoing messages, to protect folks who like to include their email in message trailers and sigs, or who quote other emails from other users, and get them spammed, also. Obfuscation can/will be overcome and is not a solution. > > -Jim P. -- Steve Murphy Software Developer Digium From stephen at xemacs.org Tue May 27 02:42:28 2008 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 09:42:28 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Major problems with privacy and mailman lists and harvesters In-Reply-To: <9620704.6491211839882165.JavaMail.root@jupiler.digium.com> References: <2646970.6471211839723427.JavaMail.root@jupiler.digium.com> <9620704.6491211839882165.JavaMail.root@jupiler.digium.com> Message-ID: <87lk1wshl7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Steve Murphy writes: > Yes, I know. I'm working on Asterisk, another free-software package. > I bet it's the same basic situation. I'll put my code where my mouth is, > if everybody agrees that it's the way to go. Everybody doesn't. Me, for one. I have no objection to people trying to turn email into something it isn't, but I won't use it. So make sure it's configurable, please. >>> We need to rethink how we can adequately keep emails out of >>> spammers hands. Feel free to waste tons of resources on that problem. > What I'm targeting is the "From ", and "From:" headers. Instead of them > giving the actual email of the original submitter, they could simply say > "whateverlist at lists.whateverdomain.com" They already do. However, according to the RFCs, To, CC, From, Date, etc. are author headers. Third parties should not be touching them except at the behest of the author. I don't have a problem with "implicit consent" (ie, a public statement that mail sent to this list will be stripped of addresses), but this does imply that until we know that 95% of the world wants anonymization, the stripper should be off by default. I suspect that you won't even come close to 50%, because a large fraction of mailman lists are announce-style anyway. Furthermore, there are a whole bunch of other headers that you really need to go after. Reply-To, Sender, To, CC, some Received, the Resent-* versions of the above as well as X-Delivered-To etc in case of a forwarded message, all may contain inadvertant valid addresses or mailboxes. Reply-To is going be especially controversial, as people who actually know what Reply-To is for and use it correctly tend to be BOFH types who can flame until the bile leaks from the corners of their eyes. You'll also presumably want to strip MIME type message/rfc-822 of any addresses it might contain, etc. > All emails that might appear in the body of the message itself will > be stripped (with [EMAIL REMOVED] type stuff to replace it, as a > service to list members, to help protect them from being harvested. On some lists it's pretty common to see "see " to refer to a Message-ID. How do you propose to avoid stripping those? How about when somebody is trying to give an example of an incorrectly formed address? > That I will do. But I'm not really into total anonymity. Just email > addr removal. You're missing the point. Stripping addresses is the main thing that a list can guarantee as far as anonymity goes. So people running anonymous lists are going to know about all the technical problems that your proposal will run into. > > You're continuing to make the critical mistake that everyone else does, > > which is that you're trying to solve an inherently non-technical problem > > with technical means. And that is a recipe for guaranteed disaster. > > Well, you are right to a degree. First, we could rate complete > email address removal as the "Ultra" privacy option for a mailing > list, and not everybody will opt for it, because taking a > discussion "offline" will not be a 1-click process. No, in fact it will be a messy public "Yo, whoever posted that message get in touch with me, you can find my address at ." About 80% of which won't get any response at all. The thing is, you complained about the Asterisk list. Well, that's exactly the kind of list where a vocal few (typically the project leaders) are going to be quite opposed to such schemes. Their addresses are generally well-known (perhaps not their personal addresses, but their project aliases will be). You're proposing to make it difficult for them to get in touch with users who are asking for help. How about the dorks who write "CC me, I'm not subscribed"? We generally do want to answer their questions (perhaps after toasting them to a nice light brown). Etc, etc. And people who do want to get replies may very well end up going private and bothering those with published addresses for that purpose since the list won't work for them. As I already wrote, I'm sure a lot of people want this (or will think they do until they actually try it). It's a worthwhile project, but it's neither a panacea nor something that anybody "must" do. Steve From justbrits at comcast.net Tue May 27 03:35:58 2008 From: justbrits at comcast.net (JB@comcast) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 19:35:58 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords References: <200805260659.m4Q6xA53018624@theraft.openend.se><200805260819.m4Q8Jrfb016110@b.mail.sonic.net> <87r6bprkqp.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <048601c8bf9a$0411e6d0$6801a8c0@shop> Sounds great, Stephen. <> I just PRAY cPanel doesn't screw it up!! Ed From am72subs at gmail.com Tue May 27 05:06:45 2008 From: am72subs at gmail.com (Anant Maringanti) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 11:06:45 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] why do i keep getting awaiting approval messages ? Message-ID: I have looked up the archives and the FAQ but perhaps I dont even know what I am looking for. I have recently set up a mailing list. I think I have set up the list for not holding up any member's posting for admin approval. But each time there is a posting, it gets held up and I get a message saying "message awaiting approval" and it wont go through until I approve of it. At first I thought it was because messages were coming in with html in them -- so I sent a message in plain text format to test but even that got held up. Where should I look? Here are the main options which I think are relevant as I have set them. Any suggestions in this regard will be greatly appreciated: ----------------------- (Administrivia filter) Check postings and intercept ones that seem to be administrative requests? YES Emergency moderation of all traffic to the list - No. Maximum length in kilobytes (KB) of a message body. Set to 40 KB. Should messages from this mailing list include the RFC 2369 (i.e. List-*) headers? (Yes is highly recommended) Set to NO. Set everyone's moderation bit, including those members not currently visible - OFF. SENDER FILTERS: By default, should new list member postings be moderated? NO Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is defined. HOLD Spam filters: I have left spam filter rule #1 blank. action : defer. Legacy anti spam filters: I have not changed anything in this. # Lines that *start* with a '#' are comments. to: friend at public.com message-id: relay.comanche.denmark.eu from: list at listme.com from: .*@uplinkpro.com Filter rules to match against the headers of a message. HOLD Content Filtering: Should Mailman filter the content of list traffic according to the settings below? YES Remove message attachments that don't have a matching content type. Leave this field blank to skip this filter test: multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain Remove message attachments that have a matching filename extension: exe bat cmd com pif scr vbs cpl Should Mailman collapse multipart/alternative to its first part content? YES Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text? This conversion happens after MIME attachments have been stripped. YES Action to take when a message matches the content filtering rules: Forward to list owner. From brad at shub-internet.org Tue May 27 06:56:43 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 23:56:43 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Major problems with privacy and mailman lists and harvesters In-Reply-To: <9620704.6491211839882165.JavaMail.root@jupiler.digium.com> References: <9620704.6491211839882165.JavaMail.root@jupiler.digium.com> Message-ID: On 5/26/08, Steve Murphy wrote: > Agreed. But I'm not at all for any kind of obfuscation. I'm for > removal. If we do a good job of subtracting email addresses from > outgoing messages, and out of the archives, eventually the spammers > will give up on lists so configured. Other than anonymization, we can't really mess with the outgoing messages. You would be destroying information that could not be retrieved or recreated, and if one of the recipients wanted to reply to all of the other recipients (including non-list participants), they would not be able to do so. We could certainly do more within the "cooked" archives, however. Of course, in that case the list admin would have to protect the raw archives from being downloaded, and right now there's no way to prevent that from within Mailman. You can choose whether or not to advertise the raw archives, but even if they're not advertised, someone who knows how to contruct the appropriate URL can still download them. So there are multiple security-related things that could be done to further protect the archives, at least as an option for the list admin. Of course, you as a subscriber, would have no control over what would be done with your e-mail once it's posted to the list -- that would be up to the people who administer the list and what archive security options they choose to select. This might potentially be something we could fix in Mailman3 (where each user could control on a per-list and per-sender address basis what is done to/with their e-mail addresses within the archives), but I don't think anyone has put any serious thought into that particular issue. > I **thought"" I understood the basics of email workings. > What I'm targeting is the "From ", and "From:" headers. What you call the "From " header is not actually a header. It's the envelope sender information, and is not necessarily recorded anywhere within the message itself. You can't muck with that, unless you want your message thrown away as spam. Also, you can't really muck with the header "From:" field, unless you want your message thrown away as spam. > Instead of them > giving the actual email of the original submitter, they could simply say > "whateverlist at lists.whateverdomain.com" -- in other words, set the from > addr to the list address itself. That's called "list anonymization". However, this is controlled on a per-list basis, and as a user you have absolutely no control over this process whatsoever. Moreover, there are some pretty serious costs with list anonymization. Trust me, you really don't want to turn this on unless you know exactly what you're doing and why. > What's not-doable about this? Am I missing something? I can be incredibly > dense at times, and miss some pretty obvious laws of nature. Feel free to > correct me. With regards to the messages actually being transmitted, that's basically all we can do. > IIRC, the spammers forge the From addresses all the time, and the emails > get delivered. Yeah, but they don't care if 99.9999999999999999999999% of their messages get thrown away as spam, so long as that last tiny fraction gets through. In contrast, your users would probably be pretty upset if any significant fraction of the messages being sent by your list were to get thrown away as spam. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From brad at shub-internet.org Tue May 27 07:01:05 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 00:01:05 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords In-Reply-To: <200805260659.m4Q6xA53018624@theraft.openend.se> References: <200805260659.m4Q6xA53018624@theraft.openend.se> Message-ID: On 5/26/08, Laura Creighton wrote: > So what people _want_ is a way to log in with a password and then have > mailman recognise them and make it possible for them to administer all > the lists they run. The site admin password can be used to administer any list on the system. If you turn on the appropriate option in the mm_cfg.py file, you can even set it up so that you log into one list with the site admin password and you don't even have to provide a password to log into any of the other lists -- the cookie set by the first password login will be recognized by all the other lists. But there's one and only one site admin password. And whoever has site admin password can do anything at all that they want to your Mailman installation -- if it can be done from the web, they can do it. You really don't want to be sharing the site admin password with anyone that you don't trust to have full root level access to your mail servers. Which brings us right back to where we were. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From ges+lists at wingfoot.org Tue May 27 07:43:51 2008 From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 01:43:51 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords In-Reply-To: <87r6bprkqp.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <200805260659.m4Q6xA53018624@theraft.openend.se> <200805260819.m4Q8Jrfb016110@b.mail.sonic.net> <87r6bprkqp.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <483B9F97.1020408@wingfoot.org> Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > I do like your idea though of having one main account per person which will > > then give you allowed access to all the lists you own or moderate (and > > subscribe to). Don't know how doable it is though... > > This is definitely coming in Mailman 3, since user management will be > separated from individual lists. The same mechanism can surely be > adapted to admin account management. > Sweet! So then there won't be a "list administator" and "list moderator" password any longer? It'll be like Yahell!Groups, and you can just 'flip a bit' and someone gets those rights turned on? Nice! :-D Way to go, Mailman team! I can't wait for v3 now!!! :-D Best, --Glenn From brad at shub-internet.org Tue May 27 08:39:25 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 01:39:25 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords In-Reply-To: <483B9F97.1020408@wingfoot.org> References: <200805260659.m4Q6xA53018624@theraft.openend.se> <200805260819.m4Q8Jrfb016110@b.mail.sonic.net> <87r6bprkqp.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <483B9F97.1020408@wingfoot.org> Message-ID: On 5/27/08, Glenn Sieb wrote: > Sweet! So then there won't be a "list administator" and "list moderator" > password any longer? It'll be like Yahell!Groups, and you can just 'flip > a bit' and someone gets those rights turned on? Nice! :-D > > Way to go, Mailman team! I can't wait for v3 now!!! :-D The technical capability to do this sort of thing may or may not exist, but I have not heard any official word from Barry as to exactly what features will be implemented. So, I wouldn't go counting those chickens yet. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From ges+lists at wingfoot.org Tue May 27 09:07:38 2008 From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 03:07:38 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords In-Reply-To: References: <200805260659.m4Q6xA53018624@theraft.openend.se> <200805260819.m4Q8Jrfb016110@b.mail.sonic.net> <87r6bprkqp.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <483B9F97.1020408@wingfoot.org> Message-ID: <483BB33A.6050606@wingfoot.org> Brad Knowles wrote: > The technical capability to do this sort of thing may or may not > exist, but I have not heard any official word from Barry as to exactly > what features will be implemented. > > So, I wouldn't go counting those chickens yet. > Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > I do like your idea though of having one main account per person which will > > then give you allowed access to all the lists you own or moderate (and > > subscribe to). Don't know how doable it is though... > > This is definitely coming in Mailman 3, since user management will be > separated from individual lists. The same mechanism can surely be > adapted to admin account management. > Hey Brad! So I misread this? Best, --G. -- ...destination is merely a byproduct of the journey --Eric Hansen From brad at shub-internet.org Tue May 27 09:40:00 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 02:40:00 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords In-Reply-To: <483BB33A.6050606@wingfoot.org> References: <200805260659.m4Q6xA53018624@theraft.openend.se> <200805260819.m4Q8Jrfb016110@b.mail.sonic.net> <87r6bprkqp.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <483B9F97.1020408@wingfoot.org> <483BB33A.6050606@wingfoot.org> Message-ID: On 5/27/08, Glenn Sieb wrote: > So I misread this? Barry Warsaw is the Principal Core Developer for Mailman. Tokio Kikuchi and Mark Sapiro are also other key core developers for Mailman. I'll listen to anything that these people have to say on the subject, because they are all more knowledgeable on the subject than I am. Otherwise, unless it's officially listed on the Mailman3 page in the wiki at , or Barry or one of the other core developers has made a strong public statement that some feature will definitely be included, then I'd be inclined to hold off on counting any chickens. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From stephen at xemacs.org Tue May 27 11:02:50 2008 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 18:02:50 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords In-Reply-To: <483BB33A.6050606@wingfoot.org> References: <200805260659.m4Q6xA53018624@theraft.openend.se> <200805260819.m4Q8Jrfb016110@b.mail.sonic.net> <87r6bprkqp.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <483B9F97.1020408@wingfoot.org> <483BB33A.6050606@wingfoot.org> Message-ID: <87hcckruf9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Glenn Sieb writes: > Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > > I do like your idea though of having one main account per person which will > > > then give you allowed access to all the lists you own or moderate (and > > > subscribe to). Don't know how doable it is though... > > > > This is definitely coming in Mailman 3, since user management will be > > separated from individual lists. The same mechanism can surely be > > adapted to admin account management. > > > > Hey Brad! > > So I misread this? Yes and no. As Brad points out, I am not a core Mailman developer, nor do I have any other particular creds that anybody should listen to me. Nonetheless, the problem that in Mailman 2.x users have a password per list and either have to reset all to the same one or keep lists of them is a long-standing issue acknowledged by Barry and I believe Mark as a "misfeature" at best. Barry has said that he wants Mailman 3 to be much more friendly to external, centralized user management, partly for this reason. Better user management is also essential to improved anti-spam filtering (specifically, the MTA needs to be able to callout to Mailman to check if the sender is a list member). For these reasons I'd be willing to bet money that the necessary centralized accounting features will be in Mailman 3. On the other hand, don't hold your breath. The main reason that I mentioned it is cautionary: Mailman 3 is a ways away. These features are not going to be available in a production release for many months AFAICS, and may very well depend on admins installing a real DBMS such as LDAP or MySQL to get the features. In the long run I expect it will be a "batteries included" approach, but early releases may not be easy to set up for these purposes. From lac at openend.se Tue May 27 12:05:35 2008 From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 12:05:35 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords In-Reply-To: Message from "Stephen J. Turnbull" of "Tue, 27 May 2008 03:19:42 +0900." <87r6bprkqp.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <200805260659.m4Q6xA53018624@theraft.openend.se> <200805260819.m4Q8Jrfb016110@b.mail.sonic.net> <87r6bprkqp.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <200805271005.m4RA5ZFW021024@theraft.openend.se> In a message of Tue, 27 May 2008 03:19:42 +0900, "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: >Cyndi Norwitz writes: > > > What is a pain for me to remember is the link to get to each interface >. I > > use a custom page for my new window/tab page in FF. It has them liste >d so > > I can click and go. > >What I do is to create a bookmark folder in FireFox containing a bookmark >for each list such as > > Name: NAME-OF-LIST > URL: http://HOST/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/LIST?adminpw=PASSWORD > >(ISTR I first heard of this from Barry Warsaw.) If I wanted that to be >secure and/or portable, I'd put it in an HTML file on a USB stick. It >would be easy to generate such files, and any security risk would be >restricted to the lists managed by people who scatter such information >around for snoops to see, which is about the best you can do. I >believe that FireFox at least can import such pages as bookmark folders. Thank you. This is a good idea. > >I realize that this is less than what really *should* be possible in >this day and age, but I hope it helps. > > > I do like your idea though of having one main account per person which > will > > then give you allowed access to all the lists you own or moderate (and > > subscribe to). Don't know how doable it is though... > >This is definitely coming in Mailman 3, since user management will be >separated from individual lists. The same mechanism can surely be >adapted to admin account management. Any idea when Mailman 3 is coming? Laura From barry at list.org Tue May 27 13:03:44 2008 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 07:03:44 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords In-Reply-To: References: <200805260659.m4Q6xA53018624@theraft.openend.se> <200805260819.m4Q8Jrfb016110@b.mail.sonic.net> <87r6bprkqp.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <483B9F97.1020408@wingfoot.org> Message-ID: <8477A9B5-EF43-4EB9-BB23-BDD2F263FE1A@list.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On May 27, 2008, at 2:39 AM, Brad Knowles wrote: > On 5/27/08, Glenn Sieb wrote: > >> Sweet! So then there won't be a "list administator" and "list >> moderator" >> password any longer? It'll be like Yahell!Groups, and you can just >> 'flip >> a bit' and someone gets those rights turned on? Nice! :-D >> >> Way to go, Mailman team! I can't wait for v3 now!!! :-D > > The technical capability to do this sort of thing may or may not > exist, but I have not heard any official word from Barry as to > exactly what features will be implemented. > > So, I wouldn't go counting those chickens yet. That's definitely the plan though. Some of this is implemented now, and some will live in the new u/i layer or be enforced though the REST interface. - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkg76pAACgkQ2YZpQepbvXHlsgCcCQgCQsGFmCBnoO5xzgfn25N1 cCMAoIfnx7xPuBhUyINA05va8ahR1gFV =XprH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From lac at openend.se Tue May 27 15:55:36 2008 From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 15:55:36 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords In-Reply-To: Message from Brad Knowles of "Tue, 27 May 2008 00:01:05 CDT." References: <200805260659.m4Q6xA53018624@theraft.openend.se> Message-ID: <200805271355.m4RDta2Q026776@theraft.openend.se> Thanks Brad >But there's one and only one site admin password. And whoever has >site admin password can do anything at all that they want to your >Mailman installation -- if it can be done from the web, they can do >it. > > >You really don't want to be sharing the site admin password with >anyone that you don't trust to have full root level access to your >mail servers. > >Which brings us right back to where we were. Right, what people want is a way to remember one password to administer 15 or so lists on one site, without having the site password, because there is _nobody_ we trust to administer all the lists. So that password is only used by sysadmins for rare emergencies. Laura From b19141 at anl.gov Tue May 27 16:26:51 2008 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 09:26:51 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Laura Creighton ' dated: Tue, 27 May 2008 15:55:36 +0200 Message-ID: <20080527142651.664C6175AA@britaine.cis.anl.gov> Laura Creighton replied: >Right, what people want is a way to remember one password to administer >15 or so lists on one site, without having the site password, because >there is _nobody_ we trust to administer all the lists. So that password >is only used by sysadmins for rare emergencies. If you are the only admin for each of the 15 lists, then set the admin password to one string that you will remember. The problem arises when you are not the only admin, and each of the 15 lists has a different set of co-admins. Then every one of those co-admins will need to know the one admin password, and those co-admins will then have admin access to lists for which they are not administrators. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From lac at openend.se Tue May 27 17:01:56 2008 From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 17:01:56 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords In-Reply-To: Message from b19141@anl.gov (Barry Finkel) of "Tue, 27 May 2008 09:26:51 CDT." <20080527142651.664C6175AA@britaine.cis.anl.gov> References: <20080527142651.664C6175AA@britaine.cis.anl.gov> Message-ID: <200805271501.m4RF1urA005520@theraft.openend.se> In a message of Tue, 27 May 2008 09:26:51 CDT, Barry Finkel writes: >Laura Creighton replied: > >>Right, what people want is a way to remember one password to administer >>15 or so lists on one site, without having the site password, because >>there is _nobody_ we trust to administer all the lists. So that passwor >d >>is only used by sysadmins for rare emergencies. > >If you are the only admin for each of the 15 lists, then set the admin >password to one string that you will remember. The problem arises when >you are not the only admin, and each of the 15 lists has a different >set of co-admins. Then every one of those co-admins will need to know >the one admin password, and those co-admins will then have admin access >to lists for which they are not administrators. This is exacly the state we are in right now, which is why we cannot share admin passwords between lists. It looks like a case of 'you want it, go to work on Mailman 3' to me. :-) I just wanted to check that I wasn't overlooking something. Thank you. Laura >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Barry S. Finkel >Computing and Information Systems Division >Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 >9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 >Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov >Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From b19141 at anl.gov Tue May 27 19:21:10 2008 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 12:21:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] why do i keep getting awaiting approval messages ? In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Anant Maringanti" ' dated: Tue, 27 May 2008 11:06:45 +0800 Message-ID: <20080527172110.74394175AA@britaine.cis.anl.gov> "Anant Maringanti" wrote, in part: >I have looked up the archives and the FAQ but perhaps I dont even know >what I am looking for. I have recently set up a mailing list. I think >I have set up the list for not holding up any member's posting for >admin approval. But each time there is a posting, it gets held up and I >get a message saying "message awaiting approval" and it wont go through >until I approve of it. At first I thought it was because messages were >coming in with html in them -- so I sent a message in plain text >format to test but even that got held up. Where should I look? Here are >the main options which I think are relevant as I have set them. Any >suggestions in this regard will be greatly appreciated: You have told us much, but you have not told us why the "message awaiting approval" was issued. In that mail there should be a reason why the mail was sent to the list moderator(s) for approval, such as a) posting by a non-member to a member-only list b) "implicit destination" c) too many recipients d) and others Without knowing the reason, we can only guess at the reason and attempt to give you advice. I could tell you how to fix "implicit destination", but that will not help you if that is not the cause of your problem. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From dragon at crimson-dragon.com Tue May 27 19:48:01 2008 From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 10:48:01 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Major problems with privacy and mailman lists and harvesters In-Reply-To: <20080524021647.220D5181075@friskymail-a3.g.dreamhost.com> References: <1211562200.3442.146.camel@digium2> <20080524021647.220D5181075@friskymail-a3.g.dreamhost.com> Message-ID: <200805271744.m4RHiq5i028299@newbox.eroded.org> Michael Welch wrote: >Steve Murphy wrote at 10:03 AM 5/23/2008: > > >I've noticed in the mailman-users archives, that if I view info by > thread (using the mailman archives as an example,) which site is > 2.1.10 based, that all email addresses are present, but with a > simple obfuscation. (the "@" has been changed to " at ".) I can't > help but to think that this simple obfuscation is a joke. Any > harvester written in the past number of years would be smart enough > to capture such accurately. > >I think the Topica listserver had a great way to deal with email >addresses in archives. You could see a semblance of the email >address, but no way could you deduce the real address. If you are >logged into the site, each is still obscured, but is a live link >that opens up an email-like dialog box -- with the real address >still obscured. But it does send an email to the real address for >the obscured address. > >Pretty good way of dealing with the problem, but I have no idea if >something like this could be coded into Mailman archives. ---------------- End original message. --------------------- Doing so is definitely possible, but it would require that the archive pages be served via a CGI program and that you have some sort of database of those e-mail addresses that said CGI process would access. If I am not mistaken, I believe that there is currently a wrapper script that handles access control to private archives but which gets bypassed if the archive is public. The current architecture under pipermail is that the actual archive pages themselves are just static HTML files and the wrapper script only has the function of setting and checking an access token in a cookie to access them if the archive is private. Dragon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From katy at by-design.net Tue May 27 19:57:03 2008 From: katy at by-design.net (Katy Eggering) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 12:57:03 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to make unsubscribe==ban ??? Message-ID: <483C4B6F.5030805@by-design.net> I've looked in the archives but didn't find anything about my situation. I have a customer that is implementing a mailing list for those that subscribe to their service. They plan to import the member list from their database and do a mass subscribe. Each mailing sent out will include unsubscribe info. When the user sends an "unsubscribe" message, we need to make sure that they aren't resubscribed with the next database/user sync. It looks like we can accomplish this by adding that user to the ban list. (I know in older versions a subscribe by the admin overruled the ban list, but not any more.) So my question is how to get the unsubscribed user into the list of banned users. I haven't found a command line version of ban. Does one exist? Other suggestions welcome. Thanks. Katy -- Katy Eggering Networks By Design katy at by-design.net 314.786.1000 x 114 From brad at shub-internet.org Tue May 27 21:31:58 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 14:31:58 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords In-Reply-To: <200805271005.m4RA5ZFW021024@theraft.openend.se> References: <200805260659.m4Q6xA53018624@theraft.openend.se> <200805260819.m4Q8Jrfb016110@b.mail.sonic.net> <87r6bprkqp.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <200805271005.m4RA5ZFW021024@theraft.openend.se> Message-ID: <483C61AE.1060807@shub-internet.org> Laura Creighton wrote: > Any idea when Mailman 3 is coming? So far as I know, no official schedule has been announced. There has been an announcement of a pre-alpha version that Mailman developers can take a look at and see what might ultimately arrive, but if you're not a Mailman developer who's hacking on the code then this won't help you. Keep an eye on the Mailman3 section of the wiki, and look for announcements to the appropriate mailman-* mailing lists. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From terri at zone12.com Tue May 27 21:32:40 2008 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 15:32:40 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman FAQ: a call for help Message-ID: <9F24FE12-8A65-4E1B-AFC6-68001D6C362D@zone12.com> Ever wanted to help out with Mailman but didn't know how? Here's your chance! I've been trying to make the wiki into the one-stop-shop for Mailman documentation, and as part of that process, I made a script that moved the Mailman FAQ entries into the wiki. http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Frequently+Asked+Questions You'll see that there's around 200 entries in there now, organized into sections as they were originally in the FAQ Wizard: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py I need some people who've got a few minutes to help out with cleaning up the wiki FAQ entries. You don't need to know the answers -- I just need some volunteers who can fix some links and maybe do some organization. I don't need any huge time commitment, just sign up for a wiki account and do an entry or two when you've got some spare time. Most of the pages just need someone to convert the FAQ Wizard links to internal wiki links (eg: in http://wiki.list.org/x/PIA9), maybe fix some other formatting (eg: look at http://wiki.list.org/x/p4A9 and how the preformatted stuff is inexplicably in three blocks rather than one). It's an easy job, it's just that at 200 pages, I could use some help! If you have any questions or need any help getting started, please let me know! Terri From barry at list.org Tue May 27 22:28:18 2008 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 16:28:18 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords In-Reply-To: <483C61AE.1060807@shub-internet.org> References: <200805260659.m4Q6xA53018624@theraft.openend.se> <200805260819.m4Q8Jrfb016110@b.mail.sonic.net> <87r6bprkqp.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <200805271005.m4RA5ZFW021024@theraft.openend.se> <483C61AE.1060807@shub-internet.org> Message-ID: <1FC7D0ED-963E-4B1B-A0F3-C7CFFCE9AEF5@list.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On May 27, 2008, at 3:31 PM, Brad Knowles wrote: > So far as I know, no official schedule has been announced. There > has been an announcement of a pre-alpha version that Mailman > developers can take a look at and see what might ultimately arrive, > but if you're not a Mailman developer who's hacking on the code then > this won't help you. > > Keep an eye on the Mailman3 section of the wiki, and look for > announcements to the appropriate mailman-* mailing lists. MM 3.0alpha1 was released. I encourage and welcom everyone who wants to help get MM3 closer to reality to check out the code, bang on it, and join mailman-developers. - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkg8buIACgkQ2YZpQepbvXHPWwCeOu9fxhqrqPtXqcvQ+WABmUZy d9YAoKJugPkymUTrfkmQUyZdhROQjZWx =qEMg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From barry at list.org Tue May 27 22:32:02 2008 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 16:32:02 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman FAQ: a call for help In-Reply-To: <9F24FE12-8A65-4E1B-AFC6-68001D6C362D@zone12.com> References: <9F24FE12-8A65-4E1B-AFC6-68001D6C362D@zone12.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On May 27, 2008, at 3:32 PM, Terri Oda wrote: > Ever wanted to help out with Mailman but didn't know how? Here's > your chance! > > I've been trying to make the wiki into the one-stop-shop for Mailman > documentation, and as part of that process, I made a script that > moved the Mailman FAQ entries into the wiki. > > http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Frequently+Asked+Questions Terri, this is superfantastic! Thanks so much for doing this. Two things: - - Does it make sense to turn off write permission on the FAQ wizard? If we don't, the wiki will slowly get out of date. I think we can do this easily by changing the password and maybe adding some pointers to the wiki. - - We should commit your script to the mailman-administrivia repository. - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkg8b8IACgkQ2YZpQepbvXFCEACfTIG7qCSv4AUB2aJMvGNBA3B3 WNoAoLnfA4vF+n9xvujeUHUsmt6qqsTV =2Ilh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From brad at shub-internet.org Tue May 27 22:51:26 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 15:51:26 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to make unsubscribe==ban ??? In-Reply-To: <483C4B6F.5030805@by-design.net> References: <483C4B6F.5030805@by-design.net> Message-ID: <483C744E.1080009@shub-internet.org> Katy Eggering wrote: > When the user sends an "unsubscribe" > message, we need to make sure that they aren't resubscribed with the > next database/user sync. It looks like we can accomplish this by adding > that user to the ban list. Are you sure? > (I know in older versions a subscribe by the > admin overruled the ban list, but not any more.) I would be really surprised if this was true. Can you point to the documentation or release notes that indicate this change? -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From floeff at gmail.com Wed May 28 02:00:33 2008 From: floeff at gmail.com (Florian Effenberger) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 02:00:33 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting respond_to_post_requests and header filters in mm_cfg.py Message-ID: Hello, is it possible to set respond_to_post_requests and header filters in mm_cfg.py? I want to disable respond_to_post_requests for new lists automatically, and also want to filter out mails with X-Spam-Flags: YES in the header per default. Seems my settings in mm_cfg.py don't get recognized... Thanks Florian From am72subs at gmail.com Wed May 28 03:02:38 2008 From: am72subs at gmail.com (Anant Maringanti) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 09:02:38 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] why do i keep getting awaiting approval messages ? Message-ID: >You have told us much, but you have not told us why the "message >awaiting approval" was issued. In that mail there should be a reason >why the mail was sent to the list moderator(s) for approval, such as > a) posting by a non-member to a member-only list > b) "implicit destination" >c) too many recipients > d) and others Hi Barry, thanks for responding. The message said: "posting from a member to a moderated group." As it turned out, I had left the newsgroup options unchanged because I assumed that it doesnt matter because I dont have a newsgroup associated with this list. But apparently, as the newsgroup was checked to be a moderated group, even if there is none associated with this list, it will behave as if the list itself is moderated. I just changed that and tried a test post. Everything is fine for now. Thanks again anant From mailmanlist at jfm30204.e4ward.com Wed May 28 04:15:53 2008 From: mailmanlist at jfm30204.e4ward.com (mailmanlist at jfm30204.e4ward.com) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 22:15:53 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman hourly limit Message-ID: <483CC059.7000700@jfm30204.e4ward.com> I just purchased a VPS to which I will have root access, so I would imagine that I will have access to Mailman config files. In Webhost Manager, there is an option to set an hourly limit for all Mailman users. Naturally, that's a good idea. But there should be a way to exempt a domain or override the limit for one domain. Is this possible, and, if so, how would it be done? JFM From brad at shub-internet.org Wed May 28 07:08:01 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 00:08:01 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting respond_to_post_requests and header filters in mm_cfg.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/28/08, Florian Effenberger wrote: > is it possible to set respond_to_post_requests and header filters in > mm_cfg.py? I want to disable respond_to_post_requests for new lists > automatically, and also want to filter out mails with X-Spam-Flags: > YES in the header per default. Seems my settings in mm_cfg.py don't > get recognized... I think the settings in mm_cfg.py only affect the defaults that are set when new lists are created. In particular, they have no affect on any pre-existing lists. You'd need to go through a separate process to change those same settings on each list, presumably some semi-automated method using "with_list". -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From brad at shub-internet.org Wed May 28 07:09:23 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 00:09:23 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman hourly limit In-Reply-To: <483CC059.7000700@jfm30204.e4ward.com> References: <483CC059.7000700@jfm30204.e4ward.com> Message-ID: On 5/27/08, mailmanlist at jfm30204.e4ward.com wrote: > I just purchased a VPS to which I will have root access, so I would > imagine that I will have access to Mailman config files. In Webhost > Manager, there is an option to set an hourly limit for all Mailman > users. This is not a standard part of Mailman. If you have any questions regarding these kinds of non-standard features, you need to ask your hosting provider. > Naturally, that's a good idea. But there should be a way to exempt > a domain or override the limit for one domain. > > Is this possible, and, if so, how would it be done? Talk to your hosting provider. They should know what additional tools they installed and how they work. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From floeff at gmail.com Wed May 28 08:42:44 2008 From: floeff at gmail.com (Florian Effenberger) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 08:42:44 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting respond_to_post_requests and header filters in mm_cfg.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Brad, > I think the settings in mm_cfg.py only affect the defaults that are set when > new lists are created. In particular, they have no affect on any > pre-existing lists. > > You'd need to go through a separate process to change those same settings on > each list, presumably some semi-automated method using "with_list". sorry for the confusion - that's not the issue. The issue is that there seem to be no options in mm_cfg.py that reflect these settings. I can set all other things, but not these two... Florian From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com Wed May 28 12:22:41 2008 From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 06:22:41 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords In-Reply-To: References: <200805260659.m4Q6xA53018624@theraft.openend.se> Message-ID: <483D3271.6000100@Media-Brokers.com> On 5/27/2008, Brad Knowles (brad at shub-internet.org) wrote: > The site admin password can be used to administer any list on the > system. If you turn on the appropriate option in the mm_cfg.py file, > you can even set it up so that you log into one list with the site > admin password and you don't even have to provide a password to log > into any of the other lists -- the cookie set by the first password > login will be recognized by all the other lists. Wow, that would come in useful for me... what option is that? -- Best regards, Charles From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com Wed May 28 12:59:18 2008 From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 05:59:18 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords In-Reply-To: <483D3271.6000100@Media-Brokers.com> Message-ID: On 5/28/08 5:22 AM, Charles Marcus at CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com wrote: > On 5/27/2008, Brad Knowles (brad at shub-internet.org) wrote: >> The site admin password can be used to administer any list on the >> system. If you turn on the appropriate option in the mm_cfg.py file, >> you can even set it up so that you log into one list with the site >> admin password and you don't even have to provide a password to log >> into any of the other lists -- the cookie set by the first password >> login will be recognized by all the other lists. > > Wow, that would come in useful for me... what option is that? ALLOWS_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES. Set it to Yes in mm_cfg.py. >From my empirical testing, the site admin password must be different than the list admin password (as a sole administrator for my system, I had them the same). If they're the same, it appears Mailman determines it to be the list password and never gets to the site password test and there never sets the site admin cookie. -- Larry Stone lstone19 at stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ From sernaluna at yahoo.com Wed May 28 19:20:24 2008 From: sernaluna at yahoo.com (JCSL) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 10:20:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Relative to Relaying deny Message-ID: <775611.7035.qm@web62301.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Hi everybody I have a big problem with a list, I have installed in my server as MTA Postfix, an antivirus Vexira and mailman to have the posibility to get a service's list. I have 4 lists created, 3 of them contain only email's directions with my domain i mean is only for internal use, that's works perfect. But theres one that contain external domains and when i try to send a message to all the members (hotmail's, yahoo's, etc), the message never is delivered, checking the logs i found that error in the smtp-failure's log in mailman: May 27 18:29:15 2008 (7555) delivery to failed with code 558: Relaying denied: domain not valid. I could send emails from my MTA to this domains, so i think that the configuration of my postfix is correct but....... when mailman try to send messages dosen't work. I hope that somebody could help me. Thanks in advance.... ======================= Julio C?sar Serna Luna ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Deportes Beta ?No te pierdas lo ?ltimo sobre el torneo clausura 2008! Ent?rate aqu? http://deportes.yahoo.com From d.drury at gmail.com Thu May 29 00:42:13 2008 From: d.drury at gmail.com (Duncan Drury) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 23:42:13 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription errors Message-ID: <4156a9150805281542g1f283b72od881f38e99c14a43@mail.gmail.com> I have recently upgraded my Mailman installation to 2.1.10 and the online subscription system that I set up stopped working completely (users fill out a form, which generates an email, which subscribes them to the list). This seems to be related to the known bug in 2.1.10 and I have tried installing the patch that has been discussed in many places - but I am still getting the same problem. In log/error I am seeing the following: May 28 23:36:05 2008 (31672) Uncaught runner exception: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower' May 28 23:36:05 2008 (31672) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 241, in _dispose res.do_command('join') File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 139, in do_command return handler.process(self, args) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py", line 74, in process if digest is None and password.lower() in ('digest', 'nodigest'): AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower' May 28 23:36:05 2008 (31672) SHUNTING: 1212014164.9099751+f202edd394843183ffbb4f3cde5b3f52fca1038a Perhaps I am not installing the patch correctly? I'm using the FreeBSD port of Mailman, and haven't had to patch anything before! Any help would be much appreciated. This has had me scratching my head for days. Duncan From brad at python.org Thu May 29 01:28:46 2008 From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 18:28:46 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords In-Reply-To: <483D3271.6000100@Media-Brokers.com> References: <200805260659.m4Q6xA53018624@theraft.openend.se> <483D3271.6000100@Media-Brokers.com> Message-ID: <483DEAAE.8010207@python.org> Charles Marcus wrote: > Wow, that would come in useful for me... what option is that? From /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py: # Normally when a site administrator authenticates to a web page with the site # password, they get a cookie which authorizes them as the list admin. It # makes me nervous to hand out site auth cookies because if this cookie is # cracked or intercepted, the intruder will have access to every list on the # site. OTOH, it's dang handy to not have to re-authenticate to every list on # the site. Set this value to Yes to allow site admin cookies. ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = No -- Brad Knowles Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists From dnewman at networktest.com Thu May 29 03:52:31 2008 From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 18:52:31 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source Message-ID: <483E0C5F.6010500@networktest.com> One or more AOL subscribers is reporting posts to one of our mailing lists as spam. Every time there's a post to this list, both we and our upstream provider get a feedback report from AOL. This report provides the message-ID for the offending email, but not the recipient's address. AOL claims I should be able to find the offended recipient(s) with just the message-ID, but I do not believe they are correct about that. grep'ing for the message-ID in maillog returns *all* of the ~250 recipients for each post. I would like to find which AOL user(s) are complaining and unsubscribe them. One method would be to write a script that sends an individual email containing a unique ID to each subscriber, and see if AOL sends feedback complaint(s) for those. Questions: 1. In putting together a script, do I need to include this header: Return-Path: ("mylist" and "example.org" are fact-free examples) 2. Is there some better way of isolating a given recipient if all I have from a spam report is a single message-ID? This is on OpenBSD 4.2 running postfix 2.4.3 and mailman 2.1.10. Many thanks! dn From ddewey at cyberthugs.com Thu May 29 04:09:16 2008 From: ddewey at cyberthugs.com (Dave Dewey) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 22:09:16 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source In-Reply-To: <483E0C5F.6010500@networktest.com> References: <483E0C5F.6010500@networktest.com> Message-ID: <20080529020915.GA5173@huntingcow.cyberthugs.com> Quoting David Newman (dnewman at networktest.com): > One or more AOL subscribers is reporting posts to one of our mailing > lists as spam. Every time there's a post to this list, both we and our > upstream provider get a feedback report from AOL. This report provides > the message-ID for the offending email, but not the recipient's address. > > AOL claims I should be able to find the offended recipient(s) with just > the message-ID, but I do not believe they are correct about that. > grep'ing for the message-ID in maillog returns *all* of the ~250 > recipients for each post. Well, how many of those 250 use AOL email addresses? That'll narrow it down. > I would like to find which AOL user(s) are complaining and unsubscribe > them. > > One method would be to write a script that sends an individual email > containing a unique ID to each subscriber, and see if AOL sends feedback > complaint(s) for those. This is probably one way. Another is to enable VERP for your outgoing messages, this allows you to track the message ID to the individual user. dd From dnewman at networktest.com Thu May 29 04:26:04 2008 From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 19:26:04 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source In-Reply-To: <20080529020915.GA5173@huntingcow.cyberthugs.com> References: <483E0C5F.6010500@networktest.com> <20080529020915.GA5173@huntingcow.cyberthugs.com> Message-ID: <483E143C.5040500@networktest.com> On 5/28/08 7:09 PM, Dave Dewey wrote: > Quoting David Newman (dnewman at networktest.com): > >> One or more AOL subscribers is reporting posts to one of our mailing >> lists as spam. Every time there's a post to this list, both we and our >> upstream provider get a feedback report from AOL. This report provides >> the message-ID for the offending email, but not the recipient's address. >> >> AOL claims I should be able to find the offended recipient(s) with just >> the message-ID, but I do not believe they are correct about that. >> grep'ing for the message-ID in maillog returns *all* of the ~250 >> recipients for each post. > > Well, how many of those 250 use AOL email addresses? That'll narrow > it down. Only around 15 percent are @aol.com addresses but unfortunately AOL has other domains such as @netscape.com, @bigfoot.com, and possibly others, all of which get handled by the AOL postmaster. I don't have an exhaustive list; while it's mostly likely some user in @aol.com-land, I can't say for sure. > This is probably one way. > > Another is to enable VERP for your outgoing messages, this allows > you to track the message ID to the individual user. That sounds very promising, thanks. Trying it now... dn From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com Thu May 29 05:43:23 2008 From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 22:43:23 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source In-Reply-To: <483E143C.5040500@networktest.com> Message-ID: On 5/28/08 9:26 PM, David Newman at dnewman at networktest.com wrote: >> Another is to enable VERP for your outgoing messages, this allows >> you to track the message ID to the individual user. > > That sounds very promising, thanks. Trying it now... I have all my lists VERPed for just that reason. Once I figure out who it is, they get unsubscribed with extreme prejudice (meaning they also get banned from the mail server). But you should be aware that will increase your outgoing mail load. Nothing I do is high enough frequency for that to be an issue but it can be for some people. Most of my lists are announcement lists. In fact, for some of them, the recipients aren't even aware it's a mailing list. I (as a side job) assign soccer referees for local leagues. Rather than sending out announcements to my referees with a long BCC: list, I add them to a private mailman list with VERP so they receive them with them as the To: recipient. That also lets me know who to remove when they decide that the easiest way to let me know that they're no longer interested in being notified of available games is to do a "report as spam". :-( -- Larry Stone lstone19 at stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com Thu May 29 13:23:26 2008 From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 07:23:26 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords In-Reply-To: <483DEAAE.8010207@python.org> References: <200805260659.m4Q6xA53018624@theraft.openend.se> <483D3271.6000100@Media-Brokers.com> <483DEAAE.8010207@python.org> Message-ID: <483E922E.10904@Media-Brokers.com> On 5/28/2008, Brad Knowles (brad at python.org) wrote: > From /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py: > > # Normally when a site administrator authenticates to a web page with the site > # password, they get a cookie which authorizes them as the list admin. It > # makes me nervous to hand out site auth cookies because if this cookie is > # cracked or intercepted, the intruder will have access to every list on the > # site. OTOH, it's dang handy to not have to re-authenticate to every list on > # the site. Set this value to Yes to allow site admin cookies. > ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = No Sorry, guess I should have looked a little closer... but thanks... I made the change and restarted mailman, and still have to log into each list, so I'm guessing this only applies to new lists? I'll have to run a command to make it apply to existing lists? -- Best regards, Charles From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com Thu May 29 13:35:02 2008 From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 06:35:02 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords In-Reply-To: <483E922E.10904@Media-Brokers.com> Message-ID: On 5/29/08 6:23 AM, Charles Marcus at CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com wrote: > On 5/28/2008, Brad Knowles (brad at python.org) wrote: >> From /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py: >> >> # Normally when a site administrator authenticates to a web page with the >> site >> # password, they get a cookie which authorizes them as the list admin. It >> # makes me nervous to hand out site auth cookies because if this cookie is >> # cracked or intercepted, the intruder will have access to every list on the >> # site. OTOH, it's dang handy to not have to re-authenticate to every list >> on >> # the site. Set this value to Yes to allow site admin cookies. >> ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = No > > Sorry, guess I should have looked a little closer... but thanks... > > I made the change and restarted mailman, and still have to log into each > list, so I'm guessing this only applies to new lists? I'll have to run a > command to make it apply to existing lists? Is your site password the same as the list admin passwords? My playing around with the feature says the site admin password must be different from the list admin password. Otherwise, it will be authenticated as the list password, not the site password, and you'll need to log into the other lists. -- Larry Stone lstone19 at stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ From b19141 at anl.gov Thu May 29 16:59:23 2008 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 09:59:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription errors In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Duncan Drury" ' dated: Wed, 28 May 2008 23:42:13 +0100 Message-ID: <20080529145923.B404E175AA@britaine.cis.anl.gov> "Duncan Drury" wrote: >I have recently upgraded my Mailman installation to 2.1.10 and the >online subscription system that I set up stopped working completely >(users fill out a form, which generates an email, which subscribes them >to the list). > >This seems to be related to the known bug in 2.1.10 and I have tried >installing the patch that has been discussed in many places - but I am >still getting the same problem. In log/error I am seeing the >following: > >May 28 23:36:05 2008 (31672) Uncaught runner exception: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower' >May 28 23:36:05 2008 (31672) Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop > self._onefile(msg, msgdata) > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile > keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 241, in >_dispose > res.do_command('join') > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 139, in >do_command > return handler.process(self, args) > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py", line 74, in >process > if digest is None and password.lower() in ('digest', 'nodigest'): >AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower' > >May 28 23:36:05 2008 (31672) SHUNTING: >1212014164.9099751+f202edd394843183ffbb4f3cde5b3f52fca1038a > >Perhaps I am not installing the patch correctly? I'm using the FreeBSD >port of Mailman, and haven't had to patch anything before! > >Any help would be much appreciated. This has had me scratching my head >for days. > >Duncan I am not an expert in this particular patch. I did install it on a system where I build an Ubuntu Mailman 2.1.10 package, but I have not yet installed nor tested that package, as I am awaiting maybe more patches. The only thing I can suggest is that maybe the FreeBSD port has a conflicting patch? I know that Debian/Ubuntu has changes to the SourceForge source, so I build my package from the SourceForge source and remove all but one Debian/Ubuntu patch (the one that places files in the proper directories for D/U). I do not know what FreeBSD does. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From dnewman at networktest.com Thu May 29 19:45:59 2008 From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 10:45:59 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <483EEBD7.2000800@networktest.com> On 5/28/08 8:43 PM, Larry Stone wrote: > On 5/28/08 9:26 PM, David Newman at dnewman at networktest.com wrote: > >>> Another is to enable VERP for your outgoing messages, this allows >>> you to track the message ID to the individual user. >> That sounds very promising, thanks. Trying it now... > > I have all my lists VERPed for just that reason. Once I figure out who it > is, they get unsubscribed with extreme prejudice (meaning they also get > banned from the mail server). But you should be aware that will increase > your outgoing mail load. Nothing I do is high enough frequency for that to > be an issue but it can be for some people. > > Most of my lists are announcement lists. In fact, for some of them, the > recipients aren't even aware it's a mailing list. I (as a side job) assign > soccer referees for local leagues. Rather than sending out announcements to > my referees with a long BCC: list, I add them to a private mailman list with > VERP so they receive them with them as the To: recipient. That also lets me > know who to remove when they decide that the easiest way to let me know that > they're no longer interested in being notified of available games is to do a > "report as spam". :-( > OK, I've enabled VERP but I'm no closer to isolating who's complaining in AOL-land. Possibly this is some VERP config error on my part. I added the following to mm_cfg.py and rebooted: VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = Yes VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 The next AOL feedback report contained a unique Message-ID, as always. grep'ing for that ID in /usr/local/mailman/logs tells me only that the message was delivered to 250 recipients in 65 seconds. grep'ing for that ID in /var/log/maillog produces a lot more output -- in fact, still one entry per mailing list subscriber. I've pasted one example below (addresses redacted); there are 250 of these in maillog. So, back to the original question: How to associate one message-ID with one subscriber? Many thanks dn May 29 10:01:22 mail amavis[24936]: (24936-17) Passed CLEAN, LOCAL [127.0.0.1] [ 207.178.164.26] -> , Message-ID: <627766.37361.qm at web38905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, mail_id : KdgO9YwQBfML, Hits: -2.403, size: 18328, queued_as: 482E25B31D5, 12089 ms May 29 10:01:22 mail postfix/cleanup[26083]: 913255B31D7: message-id=<627766.373 61.qm at web38905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> May 29 10:01:22 mail postfix/cleanup[31531]: BE4745B31D8: message-id=<627766.373 61.qm at web38905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> May 29 10:01:22 mail postfix/cleanup[26083]: D9C2E5B31D9: message-id=<627766.373 61.qm at web38905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> May 29 10:01:23 mail postfix/cleanup[31531]: 47F645B31DA: message-id=<627766.373 61.qm at web38905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> May 29 10:01:23 mail postfix/cleanup[26083]: 6E0D65B31DB: message-id=<627766.373 61.qm at web38905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> May 29 10:01:23 mail postfix/cleanup[31531]: 876B85B31DC: message-id=<627766.373 61.qm at web38905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From brad at python.org Thu May 29 20:40:33 2008 From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 13:40:33 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source In-Reply-To: <483EEBD7.2000800@networktest.com> References: <483EEBD7.2000800@networktest.com> Message-ID: <483EF8A1.4030109@python.org> David Newman wrote: > OK, I've enabled VERP but I'm no closer to isolating who's complaining > in AOL-land. > > Possibly this is some VERP config error on my part. I added the > following to mm_cfg.py and rebooted: > > VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes > VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes > VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = Yes > VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes > VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 > > The next AOL feedback report contained a unique Message-ID, as always. Did you go back to the list configuration and turn on personalization? -- Brad Knowles Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists From dnewman at networktest.com Thu May 29 20:53:06 2008 From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 11:53:06 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source In-Reply-To: <483EF8A1.4030109@python.org> References: <483EEBD7.2000800@networktest.com> <483EF8A1.4030109@python.org> Message-ID: <483EFB92.2030802@networktest.com> On 5/29/08 11:40 AM, Brad Knowles wrote: > David Newman wrote: > >> OK, I've enabled VERP but I'm no closer to isolating who's complaining >> in AOL-land. >> >> Possibly this is some VERP config error on my part. I added the >> following to mm_cfg.py and rebooted: >> >> VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes >> VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes >> VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = Yes >> VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes >> VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 >> >> The next AOL feedback report contained a unique Message-ID, as always. > > Did you go back to the list configuration and turn on personalization? > Er, no, I haven't. Where do I set that in the Web UI? thanks dn From dragon at crimson-dragon.com Thu May 29 21:03:38 2008 From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 12:03:38 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source In-Reply-To: <483EFB92.2030802@networktest.com> References: <483EEBD7.2000800@networktest.com> <483EF8A1.4030109@python.org> <483EFB92.2030802@networktest.com> Message-ID: <200805291900.m4TJ07mZ004975@newbox.eroded.org> David Newman wrote: >On 5/29/08 11:40 AM, Brad Knowles wrote: >>David Newman wrote: >> >>>OK, I've enabled VERP but I'm no closer to isolating who's >>>complaining in AOL-land. >>> >>>Possibly this is some VERP config error on my part. I added the >>>following to mm_cfg.py and rebooted: >>> >>>VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes >>>VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes >>>VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = Yes >>>VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes >>>VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 >>> >>>The next AOL feedback report contained a unique Message-ID, as always. >>Did you go back to the list configuration and turn on personalization? > >Er, no, I haven't. Where do I set that in the Web UI? ---------------- End original message. --------------------- Should be in the list general options. I am not sure, but you may have to do a Mailman restart to enable it. Dragon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From dandrews at visi.com Thu May 29 21:09:26 2008 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 14:09:26 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source In-Reply-To: <483EFB92.2030802@networktest.com> References: <483EEBD7.2000800@networktest.com> <483EF8A1.4030109@python.org> <483EFB92.2030802@networktest.com> Message-ID: At 01:53 PM 5/29/2008, David Newman wrote: >On 5/29/08 11:40 AM, Brad Knowles wrote: >>David Newman wrote: >> >>>OK, I've enabled VERP but I'm no closer to isolating who's >>>complaining in AOL-land. >>> >>>Possibly this is some VERP config error on my part. I added the >>>following to mm_cfg.py and rebooted: >>> >>>VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes >>>VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes >>>VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = Yes >>>VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes >>>VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 >>> >>>The next AOL feedback report contained a unique Message-ID, as always. >>Did you go back to the list configuration and turn on personalization? > >Er, no, I haven't. Where do I set that in the Web UI? > >thanks > >dn DA: It is under Nondigest Options. Dave >------------------------------------------------------ >Mailman-Users mailing list >Mailman-Users at python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users >Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py >Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ >Unsubscribe: >http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dandrews%40visi.com > >Security Policy: >http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp > David Andrews and white cane Harry. From brad.plevyak at highmarkmedicareservices.com Thu May 29 21:20:05 2008 From: brad.plevyak at highmarkmedicareservices.com (brad.plevyak at highmarkmedicareservices.com) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 15:20:05 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Selecting Topics Externally? Message-ID: Hi all, We currently use Mailman at our site but do not have the administrative interface open to the public. My workaround to allow users to subscribe and unsubsribe was a CGI script that generated a command line argument to send the subcribe or unsubscribe message along with the e-mail address to mailman, using an e-mail message (it simulated the user sending an email with "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" in the subject). Pretty simple. I have a tougher job now though -- We'd like users to be able to select a topic or topics to add or remove themselves to on the mailing list. Without a built-in command line option to set topics, or being able to directly post to the mailman application (since it's behind our firewall and will only work for internal company users, not external customers), can anyone tell me if they have written a CGI application that can simulate sending these commands to mailman? I was thinking I could use an HTML form to pass the form field values to a CGI script, which could then build the proper submit logic to in turn pass the commands on to mailman (since the CGI is running our our server internally, this SHOULD work). Can anyone help me? My head is spinning here. Thanks! From gilmore.126 at osu.edu Thu May 29 21:55:00 2008 From: gilmore.126 at osu.edu (Melinda Gilmore) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 15:55:00 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queued mail Message-ID: <002f01c8c1c5$e23aedd0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu> Is there any mailman setting that you would need to verify if you were going to shut the server down, to make sure mail is queued. We use postfix with mailman 2.1.6 Melinda Gilmore Systems Engineer The Ohio State University Enterprise Messaging/OIT 614-292-4953 From dnewman at networktest.com Thu May 29 22:02:41 2008 From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 13:02:41 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source In-Reply-To: References: <483EEBD7.2000800@networktest.com> <483EF8A1.4030109@python.org> <483EFB92.2030802@networktest.com> Message-ID: <483F0BE1.9060703@networktest.com> On 5/29/08 12:09 PM, David Andrews wrote: >>> Did you go back to the list configuration and turn on personalization? >> >> Er, no, I haven't. Where do I set that in the Web UI? >> >> thanks >> >> dn > > DA: It is under Nondigest Options. Sorry for being dense, but where? These are the only choices I see under nondigest options: nondigestable msg_header msg_footer scrub_nondigest and under sibling lists: regular_exclude_lists regular_include_lists dn From dandrews at visi.com Thu May 29 22:42:02 2008 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 15:42:02 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source In-Reply-To: <483F0BE1.9060703@networktest.com> References: <483EEBD7.2000800@networktest.com> <483EF8A1.4030109@python.org> <483EFB92.2030802@networktest.com> <483F0BE1.9060703@networktest.com> Message-ID: It is between the first and second choices you listed. Since it isn't there, I would guess you need to stop and restart Mailman so the configuration file is reprocessed. Dave At 03:02 PM 5/29/2008, David Newman wrote: >On 5/29/08 12:09 PM, David Andrews wrote: > >>>>Did you go back to the list configuration and turn on personalization? >>> >>>Er, no, I haven't. Where do I set that in the Web UI? >>> >>>thanks >>> >>>dn >>DA: It is under Nondigest Options. > >Sorry for being dense, but where? > >These are the only choices I see under nondigest options: > >nondigestable >msg_header >msg_footer >scrub_nondigest > >and under sibling lists: > >regular_exclude_lists >regular_include_lists > >dn > >------------------------------------------------------ >Mailman-Users mailing list >Mailman-Users at python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users >Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py >Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ >Unsubscribe: >http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dandrews%40visi.com > >Security Policy: >http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp > David Andrews and white cane Harry. From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com Thu May 29 22:46:31 2008 From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 15:46:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source In-Reply-To: <483EEBD7.2000800@networktest.com> References: <483EEBD7.2000800@networktest.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 May 2008, David Newman wrote: > Possibly this is some VERP config error on my part. I added the > following to mm_cfg.py and rebooted: > > VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes > VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes > VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = Yes > VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes > VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 You also need OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes Once you do that, the personalization option will appear on the appropriate admin page. You will probably need to restart httpd for it to appear. I doubt restarting the qrunners will be needed. -- Larry Stone lstone19 at stonejongleux.com From lac at openend.se Thu May 29 23:11:02 2008 From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 23:11:02 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list with no archive Message-ID: <200805292111.m4TLB2iD010752@theraft.openend.se> A mailing list that I am subscribed to, for reasons of privacy, has decided to not archive its messages. I think this is an extremely silly idea, but right now out of my control. My problem is that periodically I think I remember something useful having been posted there, and want to search the non-existant archives -- because I forget they do not exist. The first erroneous piece of information I get is 'this archive is only searchable by list members'. So I try to log in to read the list, and despite typing my correct password, things fail with 'Authorization Failed' rather than letting me discover that there were no archives to be found. So you assume you haven't reset your password for this mailing list to one of the several you are in the habit of using, and ask for a password reminder -- to find out that all of this has been a complete waste of time because your problem is that there is no archive, not that you mistyped your password. So -- is this just a bug -- should I report it -- or is this list misconfigured? I can ask the list maintainer to change things if there is a way we can avoid this. Thanks very much, Laura Creighton From brad at python.org Thu May 29 23:53:32 2008 From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 16:53:32 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queued mail In-Reply-To: <002f01c8c1c5$e23aedd0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu> References: <002f01c8c1c5$e23aedd0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu> Message-ID: <483F25DC.1010700@python.org> Melinda Gilmore wrote: > Is there any mailman setting that you would need to verify if you were going > to shut the server down, to make sure mail is queued. We use postfix with > mailman 2.1.6 No, there is no such setting. Postfix should queue everything it can't deliver to Mailman and refuse to accept any more mail if it's own local queues are full, and the remote end should then queue the messages. Anything that can be delivered to Mailman while the Mailman queue runners are shut down will be put into a Mailman queue, to be processed once Mailman comes back up. There's queues all over the place. -- Brad Knowles Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists From dnewman at networktest.com Fri May 30 06:18:36 2008 From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 21:18:36 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source In-Reply-To: References: <483EEBD7.2000800@networktest.com> Message-ID: <483F801C.5000307@networktest.com> On 5/29/08 1:46 PM, Larry Stone wrote: > On Thu, 29 May 2008, David Newman wrote: > >> Possibly this is some VERP config error on my part. I added the >> following to mm_cfg.py and rebooted: >> >> VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes >> VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes >> VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = Yes >> VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes >> VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 > > You also need > OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes > > Once you do that, the personalization option will appear on the > appropriate admin page. You will probably need to restart httpd for it to > appear. I doubt restarting the qrunners will be needed. Hmmm. I must be missing something, as the system is still associating each Message-ID with all 250 list subscribers. This is in mm_cfg.py: VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = Yes VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes and under Non-digest options, peronsalize is set to "Full Personaliztion" and I restarted mailman, apache, and postfix after all this. What else might be missing? many thanks dn From yahoo at jimpop.com Fri May 30 06:37:55 2008 From: yahoo at jimpop.com (Jim Popovitch) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 00:37:55 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source In-Reply-To: <483F801C.5000307@networktest.com> References: <483EEBD7.2000800@networktest.com> <483F801C.5000307@networktest.com> Message-ID: <7ff145960805292137y482dc24sdee5f2ea3540d6c8@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 12:18 AM, David Newman wrote: > Hmmm. I must be missing something, as the system is still associating each > Message-ID with all 250 list subscribers. VERP has nothing to do with Message-ID, and everything to do with Return-Path and Sender: ;-) -Jim P. From bob001 at gmail.com Fri May 30 08:49:45 2008 From: bob001 at gmail.com (Bob001) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 23:49:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing mailman to maintain history of unsubscriptions. Message-ID: <17503855.post@talk.nabble.com> Hello Experts, Looking for guidance on this one. How can we customize mailman to ensure that un-subscriptions are automatically recorded. Once recorded, we also intent to customize subscribe function to automatically ensure that they don't get re-subscribed. If they explicitly ask for re-subscription, we can remove the record from un-subscribed info db. Other idea is to may be we can just customize it in a way so that we just enable the user's noemail flag with 'A' ? Any suggestions? Any patch available to achieve this functionality? Any better ideas to achieve this, please share. - Regards, Bob. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Customizing-mailman-to-maintain-history-of-unsubscriptions.-tp17503855p17503855.html Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From brad at shub-internet.org Fri May 30 09:37:32 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 02:37:32 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing mailman to maintain history of unsubscriptions. In-Reply-To: <17503855.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <17503855.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: On 5/29/08, Bob001 wrote: > How can we customize mailman to ensure that un-subscriptions are > automatically recorded. They already are. They're recorded in /usr/local/mailman/logs/subscribe. > Once recorded, we also intent to customize subscribe function to > automatically ensure that they don't get re-subscribed. You need to make sure you understand why they're unsubscribed, however. If you get unsubscribed due to excessive bounces caused by a short-term problem at your ISP, should this prohibit you from ever being subscribed again? And the automatic bounce handling system of Mailman is just one of many factors to consider. > Any suggestions? Any patch available to achieve this functionality? Check the patch system on sourceforge, but I would doubt it. The key is going to be fully and completely understanding any of the various different reasons why a user was unsubscribed and putting that into the database, and knowing which of those kinds of transactions could be reversible and under what circumstances. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com Fri May 30 13:35:00 2008 From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 06:35:00 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source In-Reply-To: <7ff145960805292137y482dc24sdee5f2ea3540d6c8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/29/08 11:37 PM, Jim Popovitch at yahoo at jimpop.com wrote: > On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 12:18 AM, David Newman > wrote: >> Hmmm. I must be missing something, as the system is still associating each >> Message-ID with all 250 list subscribers. > > VERP has nothing to do with Message-ID, and everything to do with > Return-Path and Sender: ;-) With VERP and personalization, the Return-Path, instead of being "listname-bounces at sendingdomain" becomes "listname-bounces+recipient=destdomain at sendingdomain". I think you said you're using Postfix in which case you need "recipient_delimiter = +" in your main.cf so it knows about the plus signs in the return paths. When you then get the AOL TOS e-mail, you can figure out who the list recipient was as while AOL redacts the AOL recipient, they don't touch the Return-Path. As you have observed, the original message-ID is still preserved. -- Larry Stone lstone19 at stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ From boxenberg at hotmail.com Fri May 30 13:32:50 2008 From: boxenberg at hotmail.com (Dov Oxenberg) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 07:32:50 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] re-install postfix? In-Reply-To: <001601c8c237$5f3a5f70$6001a8c0@Ben> References: <001601c8c237$5f3a5f70$6001a8c0@Ben> Message-ID: Good morning, Until Wednesday night my Server was running like a champ then suddenly, mysteriously, Postfix broke for no apparent reason. It is failing to start reporting "no local interface found for..." and citing some IP address which is invalid for my system. I have not been able to get anywhere since Wednesday night and am now considering uninstalling Postfix and then reinstalling. I realize this is a Postfix issue, but I wanted to ask what are the consequences of uninstalling Postfix, then reinstalling as it relates to Mailman - do I need to do anything with my existing Mailman installation, will I need to reinstall, etc. Thanks! Dov From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com Fri May 30 13:44:13 2008 From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 07:44:13 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] re-install postfix? In-Reply-To: References: <001601c8c237$5f3a5f70$6001a8c0@Ben> Message-ID: <483FE88D.6070805@Media-Brokers.com> On 5/30/2008 7:32 AM, Dov Oxenberg wrote: > Good morning, > Until Wednesday night my Server was running like a champ then > suddenly, mysteriously, Postfix broke for no apparent reason. It is > failing to start reporting "no local interface found for..." Sounds like you have a problem with your NIC... > citing some IP address which is invalid for my system. I have not > been able to get anywhere since Wednesday night and am now > considering uninstalling Postfix and then reinstalling. What have you done to try to remedy the situation? I am on the postfix list, and have not seen a single message from you about the problem. They are very knowledgeable people there - but you will need to be very specific with your problem description, and provide postconf -n output and logs of the errors... > I realize this is a Postfix issue, but I wanted to ask what are the > consequences of uninstalling Postfix, then reinstalling as it relates > to Mailman - do I need to do anything with my existing Mailman > installation, will I need to reinstall, etc. Reinstalling would be silly at this point. Fix the problem. From your vague description, it sounds like a hardware problem. Things never break 'for no reason'... -- Best regards, Charles From boxenberg at hotmail.com Fri May 30 13:57:27 2008 From: boxenberg at hotmail.com (Dov Oxenberg) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 07:57:27 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] re-install postfix? In-Reply-To: <483FE88D.6070805@Media-Brokers.com> References: <001601c8c237$5f3a5f70$6001a8c0@Ben> <483FE88D.6070805@Media-Brokers.com> Message-ID: Hi Charles, Thanks for your prompt reply. The reason my description is "vague" is because I was reluctant to post details of a Postfix problem to the Mailman list. Mailman is running fine...I can log in to the Web interface, manage my list, users etc., and obviously Apache is running as well. I looked on postfix.org but did not see anything regarding a mailing list. Would you please be so kind as to provide a link or address where I can subscribe? Regards, Dov > Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 07:44:13 -0400> From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com> To: mailman-users at python.org> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] re-install postfix?> > On 5/30/2008 7:32 AM, Dov Oxenberg wrote:> > Good morning,> > Until Wednesday night my Server was running like a champ then> > suddenly, mysteriously, Postfix broke for no apparent reason. It is> > failing to start reporting "no local interface found for..."> > Sounds like you have a problem with your NIC...> > > citing some IP address which is invalid for my system. I have not> > been able to get anywhere since Wednesday night and am now> > considering uninstalling Postfix and then reinstalling.> > What have you done to try to remedy the situation? I am on the postfix > list, and have not seen a single message from you about the problem. > They are very knowledgeable people there - but you will need to be very > specific with your problem description, and provide postconf -n output > and logs of the errors...> > > I realize this is a Postfix issue, but I wanted to ask what are the> > consequences of uninstalling Postfix, then reinstalling as it relates> > to Mailman - do I need to do anything with my existing Mailman> > installation, will I need to reinstall, etc.> > Reinstalling would be silly at this point. Fix the problem. From your > vague description, it sounds like a hardware problem.> > Things never break 'for no reason'...> > -- > > Best regards,> > Charles> ------------------------------------------------------> Mailman-Users mailing list> Mailman-Users at python.org> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/boxenberg%40hotmail.com> > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp From boxenberg at hotmail.com Fri May 30 14:04:31 2008 From: boxenberg at hotmail.com (Dov Oxenberg) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 08:04:31 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] re-install postfix? In-Reply-To: References: <001601c8c237$5f3a5f70$6001a8c0@Ben> <483FE88D.6070805@Media-Brokers.com> Message-ID: Never mind, I found it. Please forgive the faux pas. Dov > From: boxenberg at hotmail.com> To: cmarcus at media-brokers.com; mailman-users at python.org> Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 07:57:27 -0400> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] re-install postfix?> > Hi Charles,> Thanks for your prompt reply.> The reason my description is "vague" is because I was reluctant to post details of a Postfix problem to the Mailman list.> Mailman is running fine...I can log in to the Web interface, manage my list, users etc., and obviously Apache is running as well.> I looked on postfix.org but did not see anything regarding a mailing list.> Would you please be so kind as to provide a link or address where I can subscribe?> Regards,> Dov> > > > > Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 07:44:13 -0400> From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com> To: mailman-users at python.org> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] re-install postfix?> > On 5/30/2008 7:32 AM, Dov Oxenberg wrote:> > Good morning,> > Until Wednesday night my Server was running like a champ then> > suddenly, mysteriously, Postfix broke for no apparent reason. It is> > failing to start reporting "no local interface found for..."> > Sounds like you have a problem with your NIC...> > > citing some IP address which is invalid for my system. I have not> > been able to get anywhere since Wednesday night and am now> > considering uninstalling Postfix and then reinstalling.> > What have you done to try to remedy the situation? I am on the postfix > list, and have not seen a single message from you about the problem. > They are very knowledgeable people there - but you will need to be very > specific with your problem description, and provide postconf -n output > and logs of the errors...> > > I real!> ize this is a Postfix issue, but I wanted to ask what are the> > consequences of uninstalling Postfix, then reinstalling as it relates> > to Mailman - do I need to do anything with my existing Mailman> > installation, will I need to reinstall, etc.> > Reinstalling would be silly at this point. Fix the problem. From your > vague description, it sounds like a hardware problem.> > Things never break 'for no reason'...> > -- > > Best regards,> > Charles> ------------------------------------------------------> Mailman-Users mailing list> Mailman-Users at python.org> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/boxenberg%40hotmail.com> > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp> ------------------------------------------------------> Mailman-Users mailing list> Mailman-Users at python.org> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/boxenberg%40hotmail.com> > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com Fri May 30 14:43:57 2008 From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 08:43:57 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] re-install postfix? In-Reply-To: References: <001601c8c237$5f3a5f70$6001a8c0@Ben> <483FE88D.6070805@Media-Brokers.com> Message-ID: <483FF68D.6000000@Media-Brokers.com> On 5/30/2008 8:04 AM, Dov Oxenberg wrote: > Never mind, I found it. > Please forgive the faux pas. No worries... hope you get it sorted... -- Best regards, Charles From gilmore.126 at osu.edu Fri May 30 16:28:16 2008 From: gilmore.126 at osu.edu (Melinda Gilmore) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 10:28:16 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queued mail In-Reply-To: <483F25DC.1010700@python.org> References: <002f01c8c1c5$e23aedd0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu> <483F25DC.1010700@python.org> Message-ID: <000d01c8c261$66220160$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu> Thank you for the information Brad. -----Original Message----- From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at python.org] Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 5:54 PM To: Melinda Gilmore Cc: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Queued mail Melinda Gilmore wrote: > Is there any mailman setting that you would need to verify if you were going > to shut the server down, to make sure mail is queued. We use postfix with > mailman 2.1.6 No, there is no such setting. Postfix should queue everything it can't deliver to Mailman and refuse to accept any more mail if it's own local queues are full, and the remote end should then queue the messages. Anything that can be delivered to Mailman while the Mailman queue runners are shut down will be put into a Mailman queue, to be processed once Mailman comes back up. There's queues all over the place. -- Brad Knowles Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists From dnewman at networktest.com Fri May 30 17:00:09 2008 From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 08:00:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48401679.2090102@networktest.com> On 5/30/08 4:35 AM, Larry Stone wrote: > On 5/29/08 11:37 PM, Jim Popovitch at yahoo at jimpop.com wrote: > >> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 12:18 AM, David Newman >> wrote: >>> Hmmm. I must be missing something, as the system is still associating each >>> Message-ID with all 250 list subscribers. >> VERP has nothing to do with Message-ID, and everything to do with >> Return-Path and Sender: ;-) > > With VERP and personalization, the Return-Path, instead of being > "listname-bounces at sendingdomain" becomes > "listname-bounces+recipient=destdomain at sendingdomain". > > I think you said you're using Postfix in which case you need > "recipient_delimiter = +" in your main.cf so it knows about the plus signs > in the return paths. ACK. Yes, that's in main.cf. > > When you then get the AOL TOS e-mail, you can figure out who the list > recipient was as while AOL redacts the AOL recipient, they don't touch the > Return-Path. I wish this were true, but it appears AOL gets to the Return-Path too: Return-Path: So neither Return-ID nor Message-ID identifies who's complaining. But...this might be something. The next message header contains an ESMTP ID that corresponds with exactly one AOL user in maillog: Received: from rly-mh07.mx.aol.com (rly-mh07.mail.aol.com [172.21.166.143]) by air-mh02.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMH024-be4483f8d3acf; Fri, 30 May 2008 01:14:45 -0400 Received: from mail.somedomain.com (mail.somedomain.com [666.666.666.666]) by rly-mh07.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMH074-be4483f8d3acf; Fri, 30 May 2008 01:14:35 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.somedomain.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B55685B31C0 for ; Thu, 29 May 2008 22:14:34 -0000 (UTC) root at mail:log# grep -i B55685B31C0 /var/log/maillog May 29 22:14:34 mail postfix/smtpd[25785]: B55685B31C0: client=localhost[127.0.0.1] May 29 22:14:34 mail postfix/cleanup[21262]: B55685B31C0: message-id= May 29 22:14:34 mail postfix/qmgr[23040]: B55685B31C0: from=, size=13344, nrcpt=1 (queue active) Given the above, is "aoluser at aol.com" the subscriber that's complaining? Or is it just a coincidence that that AOL user got listed first? many thanks dn From dragon at crimson-dragon.com Fri May 30 17:03:13 2008 From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 08:03:13 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] re-install postfix? In-Reply-To: References: <001601c8c237$5f3a5f70$6001a8c0@Ben> Message-ID: <200805301459.m4UExYWP019960@newbox.eroded.org> Dov Oxenberg sent the message below at 04:32 5/30/2008: >Good morning, >Until Wednesday night my Server was running like a champ then >suddenly, mysteriously, Postfix broke for no apparent reason. >It is failing to start reporting "no local interface found for..." >and citing some IP address which is invalid for my system. I have >not been able to get anywhere since Wednesday night and am now >considering uninstalling Postfix and then reinstalling. >I realize this is a Postfix issue, but I wanted to ask what are the >consequences of uninstalling Postfix, then reinstalling as it >relates to Mailman - do I need to do anything with my existing >Mailman installation, will I need to reinstall, etc. ---------------- End original message. --------------------- I can't help with the postfix issues but I would suggest that on the mailman side of things that you shut down mailman until you get things fixed and then restart it afterward. I doubt you will have to do anything to it, but it can't hurt to be cautious. Dragon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com Fri May 30 17:40:40 2008 From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 10:40:40 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source In-Reply-To: <48401679.2090102@networktest.com> References: <48401679.2090102@networktest.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 May 2008, David Newman wrote: > > When you then get the AOL TOS e-mail, you can figure out who the list > > recipient was as while AOL redacts the AOL recipient, they don't touch the > > Return-Path. > > I wish this were true, but it appears AOL gets to the Return-Path too: > > Return-Path: Hmmm. I had one as recently as 5/15 and Return-Path was not touched nor some of the other places the address appears. It is frustrating that AOL wants to stop the unwanted e-mail but tries to make it difficult to figure out who is complaining. Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 20:02:11 EDT From: scomp at aol.net To: undisclosed_recipients at aol.com Subject: Client TOS Notification Return-Path: Received: from rly-yc03.mail.aol.com (rly-yc03.mail.aol.com [172.18.205.146]) by air-yc04.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILINYC44-1c4478a76c82e5; Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:38:43 -0500 Received: from albion.stonejongleux.com (albion.stonejongleux.com [66.92.131.28]) by rly-yc03.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYC32-1c4478a76c82e5; Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:38:33 -0500 Received: from albion.stonejongleux.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by albion.stonejongleux.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34DAC2A5C24F for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:38:32 -0600 (CST) X-Original-To: listname at stonejongleux.com Delivered-To: listname at stonejongleux.com Received: from [192.168.1.72] (unknown [192.168.1.72]) by albion.stonejongleux.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E2312A5C1F1 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:38:27 -0600 (CST) ... Sender: listname-bounces+AOLUSER=aol.com at stonejongleux.com Errors-To: listname-bounces+AOLUSER=aol.com at stonejongleux.com X-AOL-IP: 66.92.131.28 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_helo : n X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_822_from : + X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > So neither Return-ID nor Message-ID identifies who's complaining. > > But...this might be something. The next message header contains an ESMTP > ID that corresponds with exactly one AOL user in maillog: > > Received: from rly-mh07.mx.aol.com (rly-mh07.mail.aol.com > [172.21.166.143]) by air-mh02.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id > MAILINMH024-be4483f8d3acf; Fri, 30 May 2008 01:14:45 -0400 > Received: from mail.somedomain.com (mail.somedomain.com > [666.666.666.666]) by rly-mh07.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id > MAILRELAYINMH074-be4483f8d3acf; Fri, 30 May 2008 01:14:35 -0400 > Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by mail.somedomain.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B55685B31C0 > for ; Thu, 29 May 2008 22:14:34 -0000 (UTC) > > > root at mail:log# grep -i B55685B31C0 /var/log/maillog > > May 29 22:14:34 mail postfix/smtpd[25785]: B55685B31C0: > client=localhost[127.0.0.1] > May 29 22:14:34 mail postfix/cleanup[21262]: B55685B31C0: > message-id= > May 29 22:14:34 mail postfix/qmgr[23040]: B55685B31C0: > from=, size=13344, > nrcpt=1 (queue active) > > Given the above, is "aoluser at aol.com" the subscriber that's complaining? > Or is it just a coincidence that that AOL user got listed first? I think so. With personalization on, Mailman is generating a separate e-mail for each user which passes through Postfix as separate messages with a unique ID in Postfix. Without personalization, Mailman could pass as few as one message to the MTA and let the MTA split it into all the destinations. With personalization, the message for each user comes to the MTA as a separate message. One of the tradeoffs of personalization is the increased workload for Mailman and the MTA. -- Larry Stone lstone19 at stonejongleux.com From dnewman at networktest.com Fri May 30 18:15:06 2008 From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 09:15:06 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source In-Reply-To: References: <48401679.2090102@networktest.com> Message-ID: <4840280A.2090007@networktest.com> On 5/30/08 8:40 AM, Larry Stone wrote: > On Fri, 30 May 2008, David Newman wrote: > >>> When you then get the AOL TOS e-mail, you can figure out who the list >>> recipient was as while AOL redacts the AOL recipient, they don't touch the >>> Return-Path. >> I wish this were true, but it appears AOL gets to the Return-Path too: >> >> Return-Path: > > Hmmm. I had one as recently as 5/15 and Return-Path was not touched nor > some of the other places the address appears. It is frustrating that AOL > wants to stop the unwanted e-mail but tries to make it difficult to figure > out who is complaining. Indeed. I got my case escalated, and at first the AOL postmaster was responsive, but I haven't heard back since pointing this out a few days ago. >> Given the above, is "aoluser at aol.com" the subscriber that's complaining? >> Or is it just a coincidence that that AOL user got listed first? > > I think so. With personalization on, Mailman is generating a separate > e-mail for each user which passes through Postfix as separate messages > with a unique ID in Postfix. Without personalization, Mailman could pass > as few as one message to the MTA and let the MTA split it into all the > destinations. With personalization, the message for each user comes to the > MTA as a separate message. One of the tradeoffs of personalization is the > increased workload for Mailman and the MTA. Initially I thought the changes I made to mailman would result in a unique Message-ID per recipient, but this does not appear to be the case. For future reference, are these the only mailman change needed to get unique ESMTP IDs? 1. in mm_cfg.py, add "OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes" 2. enable personalization for the list in the Web UI If so, that may be "good enough" to catch who's complaining. thanks much dn From gilmore.126 at osu.edu Fri May 30 20:28:33 2008 From: gilmore.126 at osu.edu (Melinda Gilmore) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 14:28:33 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] archives Message-ID: <004001c8c282$f7e0a1d0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu> Is there a way to automate deletion by size of archives through mailman. Has anyone done that out there. I want to delete any archives that have grown large in size by date preferrably. Melinda Gilmore Systems Engineer The Ohio State University Enterprise Messaging/OIT 614-292-4953 From brad at shub-internet.org Fri May 30 20:57:26 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 13:57:26 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] re-install postfix? In-Reply-To: References: <001601c8c237$5f3a5f70$6001a8c0@Ben> Message-ID: <48404E16.1070103@shub-internet.org> Dov Oxenberg wrote: > I have not been able to get > anywhere since Wednesday night and am now considering uninstalling > Postfix and then reinstalling. This sounds like a configuration problem. Uninstalling and then re-installing the software isn't going to help you fix a configuration problem. You need to actually fix the configuration problem, in order to fix the configuration problem. Hopefully, you've got an automatic backup system that keeps copies of all your configuration files in SCCS, RCS, CVS, Subversion, Bazar, or some other sort of versioning system, so that you can just pull out the latest configuration files you know are correct and then restore those. If not, you may have quite a bit of work ahead of you, but uninstalling and reinstalling the software is not likely to help. > I realize this is a Postfix issue, but I > wanted to ask what are the consequences of uninstalling Postfix, then > reinstalling as it relates to Mailman - do I need to do anything with my > existing Mailman installation, will I need to reinstall, etc. As far as Mailman is concerned, I don't think there's any impact. Not unless you used a package installation mechanism that would remove everything that depends on postfix (including Mailman), when you go to remove postfix. If that were to happen, you'd be seriously screwed. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From brad at python.org Fri May 30 21:02:55 2008 From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 14:02:55 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source In-Reply-To: <48401679.2090102@networktest.com> References: <48401679.2090102@networktest.com> Message-ID: <48404F5F.3040409@python.org> David Newman wrote: > Given the above, is "aoluser at aol.com" the subscriber that's complaining? > Or is it just a coincidence that that AOL user got listed first? Since you're now sending just one message for each recipient, you will get unique queue ids assigned by your MTA for each and every message, and most MTAs will record those in the "Received:" headers. You seem to have found what looks like a unique queue id from postfix, and that should lead you to one and only one message. You might also get unique message-ids if you're doing Full Personalization, but that shouldn't be necessary in this case. -- Brad Knowles Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists From brad at shub-internet.org Fri May 30 21:54:12 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 14:54:12 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] archives In-Reply-To: <004001c8c282$f7e0a1d0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu> References: <004001c8c282$f7e0a1d0$6af29280@ad.service.osu.edu> Message-ID: <48405B64.3070103@shub-internet.org> Melinda Gilmore wrote: > Is there a way to automate deletion by size of archives through mailman. Not with the standard software we ship, no. > Has anyone done that out there. I want to delete any archives that have > grown large in size by date preferrably. Check the patches page on SourceForge to see if anyone has uploaded a script to do that sort of thing. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp Fri May 30 23:22:06 2008 From: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 06:22:06 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source In-Reply-To: <4840280A.2090007@networktest.com> References: <48401679.2090102@networktest.com> <4840280A.2090007@networktest.com> Message-ID: <87wslbebcx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> David Newman writes: > Initially I thought the changes I made to mailman would result in a > unique Message-ID per recipient, but this does not appear to be the case. Yeah, somebody actually said that, but they really meant the Return-Path. Changing Message-ID on regular posts would violate RFC 2822. Message-ID ids the content, not the medium, and is an author header: intermediate senders like Mailman must not touch it. There is a Resent-Message-ID that Mailman can set, but I don't know if that would get returned by AOL. Something has to be done to throw some of the burden back on these ISPs. I wonder if something along the lines of a monthly message like To our valued AOL subscribers: Because AOL's [privacy policy] has the inadvertant side effect of [making it impossible to determine who wants out], while their [unwanted mail policy] means that failure to address these complaints causes AOL to [refuse our mail to you], we have adopted a policy of [continuous opt-in]. Your address will be automatically be set to no-mail in our database at TIME-DATE-ONE-WEEK-FROM-NOW. To continue receiving our notices, please visit [your personal page] and renew your subscription at any time. You may wish to check the [archives of past messages] in case you missed any. [Yes, keep sending me NAME-OF-LIST.] Sincerely yours, Da Management might make the point. (The brackets [] show location of links to pages whose intended content should be clear.) To make this minimally annoying to the subscriber, there could be one-click links, and the resubscription interval could be per-user-configurable (with the default being every 15 minutes for AOLusers to ensure that they don't receive any unwanted posts). Obviously this isn't going to work very well if you have a newsletter that is primarily of benefit to you for advertising etc, while the clients put marginal value on it. So it's just an idle daydream.... There might be something to the continuous opt-in idea with appropriate support from Mailman, though, as that would provide evidence that the user is being a jerk by hitting the spam button, when they could just let the subscription lapse. From jonathan at nerds.net Fri May 30 23:00:40 2008 From: jonathan at nerds.net (Jonathan Dill) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 17:00:40 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source In-Reply-To: <48401679.2090102@networktest.com> References: <48401679.2090102@networktest.com> Message-ID: On May 30, 2008, at 11:00 AM, David Newman wrote: > On 5/30/08 4:35 AM, Larry Stone wrote: >> On 5/29/08 11:37 PM, Jim Popovitch at yahoo at jimpop.com wrote: >>> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 12:18 AM, David Newman >> > >>> wrote: >>>> Hmmm. I must be missing something, as the system is still >>>> associating each >>>> Message-ID with all 250 list subscribers. >>> VERP has nothing to do with Message-ID, and everything to do with >>> Return-Path and Sender: ;-) >> With VERP and personalization, the Return-Path, instead of being >> "listname-bounces at sendingdomain" becomes >> "listname-bounces+recipient=destdomain at sendingdomain". >> I think you said you're using Postfix in which case you need >> "recipient_delimiter = +" in your main.cf so it knows about the >> plus signs >> in the return paths. > > ACK. Yes, that's in main.cf. > >> When you then get the AOL TOS e-mail, you can figure out who the list >> recipient was as while AOL redacts the AOL recipient, they don't >> touch the >> Return-Path. > > I wish this were true, but it appears AOL gets to the Return-Path too: > > Return-Path: > > So neither Return-ID nor Message-ID identifies who's complaining. > > But...this might be something. The next message header contains an > ESMTP ID that corresponds with exactly one AOL user in maillog: > > Received: from rly-mh07.mx.aol.com (rly-mh07.mail.aol.com > [172.21.166.143]) by air-mh02.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id > MAILINMH024-be4483f8d3acf; Fri, 30 May 2008 01:14:45 -0400 > Received: from mail.somedomain.com (mail.somedomain.com > [666.666.666.666]) by rly-mh07.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id > MAILRELAYINMH074-be4483f8d3acf; Fri, 30 May 2008 01:14:35 -0400 > Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by mail.somedomain.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B55685B31C0 > for ; Thu, 29 May 2008 22:14:34 -0000 (UTC) > > > root at mail:log# grep -i B55685B31C0 /var/log/maillog > > May 29 22:14:34 mail postfix/smtpd[25785]: B55685B31C0: > client=localhost[127.0.0.1] > May 29 22:14:34 mail postfix/cleanup[21262]: B55685B31C0: message- > id= > May 29 22:14:34 mail postfix/qmgr[23040]: B55685B31C0: from= >, size=13344, nrcpt=1 (queue active) > > Given the above, is "aoluser at aol.com" the subscriber that's > complaining? Or is it just a coincidence that that AOL user got > listed first? Ostensibly, AOL does this to prevent listwashing, but it's not exactly helpful. I think AOL strips out a lot of the message headers in the TOS reports, so you don't get all of the Received headers and message- ids. How I dealt with it is that I made a custom footer in the VERP configuration that says something like: This e-mail was delivered to foobar at aol.com I suppose that it would be better if you could somehow stick that in to a hash that only you could decipher, especially if AOL decides at some point to strip all e-mail addresses out of the messages, but it's better than nothing. That shows up in the TOS messages, I stuff them all into a mailbox and then have a script that grabs the addresses from the footer and unsubscribes those addresses. I also got some good advice I think from someone on this list to put a "gentle reminder" at the top of each message with the unsub links etc right there. It says something like "You are receiving this message because you subscribed to the blah blah newsletter on the example.com website." Also, maybe you are already doing this, but a gentle reminder for you that may help with these AOL reports, you should absolutely require people to confirm their subscription and not just add them to the mailing list, even if they provided their e-mail address some other way for example filled out a comment card at an event. If people can't be bothered to confirm their subscription, then they can't be bothered to follow the instructions to unsubscribe either and will just click the "Report Spam" button when they no longer wish to receive the newsletter. Things used to be different, but now days failing to confirm subscriptions can get you blacklisted, and even your website taken offline. That actually happened to someone who ignored my insistence that they should require confirmations, arguing that it would be "too difficult" for their newsletter subscribers. > > > many thanks > > dn > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list > Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jonathan%40nerds.net > > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp From boxenberg at hotmail.com Fri May 30 23:37:46 2008 From: boxenberg at hotmail.com (Dov Oxenberg) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 17:37:46 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Memebership list... In-Reply-To: <001901c8c298$6e4803d0$6001a8c0@Ben> References: <001901c8c298$6e4803d0$6001a8c0@Ben> Message-ID: Hi, In the Web administration interface, how do I adjust the number of subscribers displayed in the table? Previously I was able to view all the members but now that the membership number has increased to over 30 subscribers the table is only displaying the first three members and I have to search for any other members individually. Thanks! From dragon at crimson-dragon.com Fri May 30 23:48:29 2008 From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 14:48:29 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Memebership list... In-Reply-To: References: <001901c8c298$6e4803d0$6001a8c0@Ben> Message-ID: <200805302144.m4ULilKc025771@newbox.eroded.org> Dov Oxenberg wrote: >Hi, >In the Web administration interface, how do I adjust the number of >subscribers displayed in the table? >Previously I was able to view all the members but now that the >membership number has increased to over 30 subscribers the table is >only displaying the first three members and I have to search for any >other members individually. ---------------- End original message. --------------------- In version 2.1.10 (NOT anything earlier) you can adjust the number of users displayed per page by setting admin_member_chunksize on the General Options page. Dragon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From brad at python.org Sat May 31 00:28:27 2008 From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 17:28:27 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source In-Reply-To: <87wslbebcx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <48401679.2090102@networktest.com> <4840280A.2090007@networktest.com> <87wslbebcx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <48407F8B.8050103@python.org> Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Yeah, somebody actually said that, but they really meant the > Return-Path. Changing Message-ID on regular posts would violate RFC > 2822. Message-ID ids the content, not the medium, and is an author > header: intermediate senders like Mailman must not touch it. IIRC, when you enable Full Personalization, enough changes are made to the message that it ends up being considered a completely new message, and therefore a new message-id is created. Same for list anonymization. Certainly, when you turn on personalization, you can enable certain values to be used in the footer of each message being sent out that will tell you the original e-mail address that it was addressed to, and if the redacting covers only the headers and not the footer, then you might see that. But either way, even you turn on just regular personalization and don't make any modifications to the message, you will get unique queue-ids that you can work with and compare against data in your logs. -- Brad Knowles Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists From dnewman at networktest.com Sat May 31 00:35:45 2008 From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 15:35:45 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source In-Reply-To: <48407F8B.8050103@python.org> References: <48401679.2090102@networktest.com> <4840280A.2090007@networktest.com> <87wslbebcx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <48407F8B.8050103@python.org> Message-ID: <48408141.3000705@networktest.com> On 5/30/08 3:28 PM, Brad Knowles wrote: > Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > >> Yeah, somebody actually said that, but they really meant the >> Return-Path. Changing Message-ID on regular posts would violate RFC >> 2822. Message-ID ids the content, not the medium, and is an author >> header: intermediate senders like Mailman must not touch it. > > IIRC, when you enable Full Personalization, enough changes are made to > the message that it ends up being considered a completely new message, > and therefore a new message-id is created. Same for list anonymization. That didn't happen, at least with my setup. grep'ing on the Message-ID provided by AOL still returned the email addresses of all list subscribers. > > Certainly, when you turn on personalization, you can enable certain > values to be used in the footer of each message being sent out that will > tell you the original e-mail address that it was addressed to, and if > the redacting covers only the headers and not the footer, then you might > see that. > > But either way, even you turn on just regular personalization and don't > make any modifications to the message, you will get unique queue-ids > that you can work with and compare against data in your logs. Yes, that appears to have worked. At least so far after I unsubscribed the problem user, posts to this particular list have not resulted in spam reports from AOL. dn From jjfink at fight.org Fri May 30 23:56:27 2008 From: jjfink at fight.org (Juliet Fink) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 17:56:27 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] A quicker way to accept moderated messages Message-ID: <00af01c8c2a0$04cf0090$1d030a0a@fight.lcl> We just migrated all of our lists that we host from Listserv to Mailman and several of the list owners and moderators who travel frequently and use handhelds while on the go are wondering if there is a quicker way to accept messages in a moderated list. Right now, an email comes, you click on it, login to mailman interface, click on accept, and then click on submit. So there are a few steps to the process (although I think this isn't particularly an unreasonable amount of steps, I promised I would look into it to keep our users happy). I was wondering if anyone had a quicker way to do this, fewer steps, a script that enables you to accept a moderated message directly from a link in the email or something to that effect. Thanks, Juliet ******************************************************************** Juliet Fink, Director of Education Philadelphia FIGHT The AIDS Library * Critical Path * Project TEACH 1233 Locust Street, 2nd Floor Philadelphia, PA 19107 P: (215)985-4851 x141 F: (215)985-4492 Email: jjfink at fight.org ******************************************************************* Important: This e-mail message and any attachments is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient(s) named above. It may contain information that is protected, privileged, or confidential, and it should not be disseminated, distributed, or copied to persons not authorized to receive such information. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution, or copying is strictly prohibited. If you think you have received this e-mail message in error, please notify the sender immediately. From justbrits at comcast.net Sat May 31 02:59:36 2008 From: justbrits at comcast.net (JB@comcast) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 18:59:36 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT bur importent?? References: <48401679.2090102@networktest.com> <4840280A.2090007@networktest.com><87wslbebcx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp><48407F8B.8050103@python.org> <48408141.3000705@networktest.com> Message-ID: <017f01c8c2b9$99454090$6801a8c0@shop> Gents: Nor sure where else I should post but at 5:27PM CDT I rec'd: ********************************************************* Your membership in the mailing list Mailman-Users has been disabled due to excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated 31-May-2008. You will not get any more messages from this list until you re-enable your membership. You will receive 3 more reminders like this before your membership in the list is deleted. ********************************************************* Since I would suspect that "tomorrow" is NOY here yet, thought I should mention. -:) Ed From brad at shub-internet.org Sat May 31 04:11:06 2008 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 21:11:06 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT bur importent?? In-Reply-To: <017f01c8c2b9$99454090$6801a8c0@shop> References: <48401679.2090102@networktest.com> <4840280A.2090007@networktest.com><87wslbebcx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp><48407F8B.8050103@python.org> <48408141.3000705@networktest.com> <017f01c8c2b9$99454090$6801a8c0@shop> Message-ID: <4840B3BA.2060106@shub-internet.org> JB at comcast wrote: > Since I would suspect that "tomorrow" is NOY here yet, thought > I should mention. -:) That system is located in Amsterdam, and operates in the CET timezone. So, for them, Tomorrow really has already happened. As to why you got disabled, well, it could be the hackers who took over the comcast.com domain and redirected it to their own servers, thus causing your e-mail and e-mail for all other comcast.com users to be bounced. You should be able to resubscribe without any problem. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From justbrits at comcast.net Sat May 31 18:31:51 2008 From: justbrits at comcast.net (JB@comcast) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 10:31:51 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT bur importent?? References: <48401679.2090102@networktest.com> <4840280A.2090007@networktest.com><87wslbebcx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp><48407F8B.8050103@python.org> <48408141.3000705@networktest.com> <017f01c8c2b9$99454090$6801a8c0@shop> <4840B3BA.2060106@shub-internet.org> Message-ID: <006401c8c33b$d57b6620$6801a8c0@shop> Thanks, Brad!! <> I did not know that!! -:) But I did think better to say something than not!! Ed From kelly.terry.jones at gmail.com Sat May 31 20:18:15 2008 From: kelly.terry.jones at gmail.com (Kelly Jones) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 11:18:15 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Triggers for when lists are changed? Message-ID: <26face530805311118m3dbc751bp3df69df1808acbe8@mail.gmail.com> I run nightly cron jobs to fix/update various Mailman lists. I don't know Python, so I write Perl scripts that call the Python scripts in /usr/local/mailman/bin/ This works OK, but I'd really like to run these Perl scripts whenever a list is changed, not just once a day. In other words, I'd like Mailman 'triggers'. Examples: "whenever list foo's membership changes, run foo-member-change.pl" "whenever list bar's config changes, run bar-config-change.pl" "whenver anything changes on any list, run list-cleanup.pl" Can Mailman do that? If not, I'd like to request it as a feature. I realize I can have a daemon watch the config.pck timestamps, but that seems ugly. -- We're just a Bunch Of Regular Guys, a collective group that's trying to understand and assimilate technology. We feel that resistance to new ideas and technology is unwise and ultimately futile.