From viz at lug.zhaw.ch  Sat Aug  1 12:13:27 2009
From: viz at lug.zhaw.ch (viz)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:13:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trivial prob in migrating
In-Reply-To: <PC192200907280707240812e6c671c4@msapiro>
References: <20090727192717.GA22007@lug.zhaw.ch>
	<PC192200907280707240812e6c671c4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20090801101327.GA17085@lug.zhaw.ch>

Hi Mark and all

That problem was solved, although not exactly according to
your instructions (see details below). I have another prob
at the bottom of this mail.

Ref: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 28.07.2009 16:07
> viz at lug.zhaw.ch wrote:
> >
> >This is roughly what I did:
> >- copied old:/usr/local/mailman/{lists|archives|data} to
> >new:/var/lib/mailman/
> >
> >- chown -R list /var/lib/mailman/{lists|archives|data}
> 
> You must chgrp to Mailman's group

In this Debian fresh installation, there is user and group called 
list. The files in /var/lib/mailman itself is root:list,
files/directories inside have all sorts of ownerships:
root:root, list:list, root:list, list:klog, ???

> >- /etc/init.d/mailman start
> >and I get "IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
> >'/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck"
> >
> >
> >checking the privileges
> >-rw-rw---- 1 root klog    3660 2009-07-27 17:18 config.pck
> >
> >its odd pending.pck and request.pck are owned by list:klog
> >and have timestamps 2008-10-21. Deleting config.pck didn't
> >help, it was recreated with the identical permissions.
> >
> >What is missing?
> 
> 
> Changing the group may be enough, but if you've lost the SETGID bit,
> you need to set that too. Mailman's bin/check_perms should help.

Changing the ownership helped. Possibly not the best
solution.

> >Second question: How do I create all the special strings
> >needed by postfix?
> 
> Make sure you have
> 
> MTA = 'Postfix'
> 
> in mm_cfg.py and run Mailman's bin/genaliases. See
> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html>.

Thanks. That was missing. I just bin/genaliases >>
/etc/aliases and ran newaliases.

That part is sofar OK.

The next question is the archives.

http://server/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo brings me:

  Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9
  We're sorry, we hit a bug!
  Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem.
  Printing of traceback and other system information has 

/var/lib/mailman/log/error has amoung other things
file /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py line 595
  fp = open(dbfile)
  IOError: Errorno 13 Permission denied
/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck

Again permissions?

Viz

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug  1 17:01:38 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 08:01:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error Running bin/genaliases
In-Reply-To: <15c03e8f0907302225r3a6f2919oc9207eef96075d55@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19220090801080138001500af65f5@msapiro>

anirudh nair wrote:
>
>I get the following error while running bin/genaliases
>
>anirudh at ani-lap:/usr/local/mailman/bin$ ./genaliases
>postalias: fatal: bad string length 0 < 1: setgid_group =


It looks like you have a problem in your Postfix configuration. This is
not a genaliases problem. You'll get the same error if you just run
the command

/usr/sbin/postalias /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

directly. It looks like you have

setgid_group =

somewhere in your Postfix configuration (main.cf) and Postfix is
telling you the value must be at least 1 character.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug  1 17:06:52 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 08:06:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sitewide mailman list
In-Reply-To: <001b01ca11df$f40fdd20$dc2f9760$@126@osu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC192200908010806520796f0e2a690@msapiro>

Melinda Humphrey-Gilmore wrote:

>I feel like this is a silly question, but I have search all of the setting
>files on my mailman server.   When users send a message to mailman@, a copy
>of the message is going to another email address.  This was done by another
>tech no longer with us.  I cannot find where he made that change.  I want to
>remove this address he assigned to receive a copy of any message that goes
>to mailman at .


Go to the web admin page for the 'mailman' list and look at the
Membership List.

If that doesn't answer your question, then my guess is that there is
somewhere in your incoming MTA an alias for 'mailman' other than the
normal list alias

mailman: "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug  1 17:17:01 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 08:17:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing confirmation requests and held messages
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0907311216460.14885@gc.phys.uwm.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1922009080108170101875ee68d7c@msapiro>

Gregory Skelton wrote:
>
>I'm kinda new to the administrating mailman lists, and I've recently run 
>into a problem with our current setup. We have multiple list, all the data 
>is mounted over nfs, and we're seeing missing emails. For instance, we've 
>had some users try to subscribe to a list but don't get a confirmation 
>email, other times we're seeing "held" messages no show up in the qeue for 
>the administrator to authorize them. This is starting to become a real 
>problem for our scientific colaboration, and I need to get it fixed soon.


Is this a "new" problem, or just newly discovered? If it is a "new"
problem, what changed?


>We're running mailman 2.1.9, and sendmail sendmail-8.13.8-2 on a Centos 
>5.2 system.
>
>Does anyone have any idea what might be the problem?


It's almost impossible to even guess based on only the above.


>I've ran check_perms script, and it gave me this output:
>
>Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
>          This could allow other users on your system to read private
> 	archives.
>          If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
>          installation manual on how to fix this.
>No problems found


This is completely normal.


>And running check_db -a -v
>
>I noticed most of mailing list are ok, but found a few list that have this 
>problem.
>
>List: lalsuite-commits
>    /var/mailman/lists/lalsuite-commits/config.pck: okay
>    /var/mailman/lists/lalsuite-commits/config.pck.last: okay
>     [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
>'/var/mailman/lists/lalsuite-commits/config.db'
>     [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
>'/var/mailman/lists/lalsuite-commits/config.db.last'


This is normal too. The lists that don't have config.db and
config.db.last files were created under Mailman 2.1.x. Those that do
have them were migrated from 2.0.x. In fact it is a good idea to
remove the config.db and config.db.last files from the lists that have
them. Otherwise, if the config.pck and config.pck.last files ever get
corrupted, Mailman could fall back to the config.db or config.db.last
and then you'd wind up with a years-old configuration and membership
list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug  1 17:47:09 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 08:47:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Membership Management Question
In-Reply-To: <C9C381799F30D94B82E9A0A23DF50C5E068727E1@EXCH04.purdue.lcl>
Message-ID: <PC19220090801084709073485e3c867@msapiro>

Boes, RaeLynn wrote:

>I can't seem to find where to add a new member to an existing  list.
>Can you help?


You can directly add or invite members on the web admin Membership
Management... -> Mass Subscription page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug  1 17:54:37 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 08:54:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trivial prob in migrating
In-Reply-To: <20090801101327.GA17085@lug.zhaw.ch>
Message-ID: <PC19220090801085437007885e3c5f3@msapiro>

viz wrote:
>
>The next question is the archives.
>
>http://server/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo brings me:
>
>  Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9
>  We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>  Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem.
>  Printing of traceback and other system information has 
>
>/var/lib/mailman/log/error has amoung other things
>file /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py line 595
>  fp = open(dbfile)
>  IOError: Errorno 13 Permission denied
>/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck
>
>Again permissions?


Have you run bin/check_perms?

If not, please run it as root with -f until it runs clean. It will fix
all sorts of problems. The problem above could be that the
cgi-bin/listinfo wrapper is not group 'list' and SETGID or the 'list
group does not have access to the
/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck file.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug  1 22:05:25 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 13:05:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and group mismatch error
In-Reply-To: <BAY118-W45A29A76E0DAB68D3C69D9DB110@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC1922009080113052501257f746656@msapiro>

Greg White wrote:
>
>> Mark wrote:
>>
>> The above looks good. what is the exact group mismatch error message
>> you get in the DSN and/or maillog when you mail to test at list.xyz.com?
>
>To send the test message I sshd into my box as user, su - to root, and did:
># /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test
>Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be
>executed as one of the following groups:
>[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],
>but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group: "root".
>Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these groups:
>[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],
>or re-run configure providing the command line option:
>'--with-mail-gid=root'.


As I said in an earlier post, this means nothing. It only says that
root can't run the wrapper, but says nothing about Postfix running the
wrapper.


>I then use mutt (still as root) to send an email and this is what I see in /var/log/maillog
>Aug  1 13:21:44 list postfix/postfix-script: starting the Postfix mail system
>Aug  1 13:21:44 list postfix/master[2494]: daemon started -- version 2.3.3, configuration /etc/postfix
>Aug  1 13:22:23 list Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as one of the following groups: [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon], but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group: "root". Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these groups: [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon], or re-run configure providing the command line option: '--with-mail-gid=root'.


OK. This one is meaningful. It says Postfix is trying to run the
wrapper as root (or does it?), and that is a problem. See below for
more.


>Finally I exit root and go back to being a user and I do:
>/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test
>Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be
>executed as one of the following groups:
>[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],
>but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group: "user".
>Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these groups:
>[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],
>or re-run configure providing the command line option:
>'--with-mail-gid=user'.


Again, this one is not relevant. If you do

sudo -u mailman /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test

it should work. That is also what Postfix should be doing.

Earlier you said -

># ls -lhZ /etc/mailman/aliases*
>-rw-rw----  root    mailman user_u:object_r:mailman_data_t   /etc/mailman/aliases
>-rw-rw-r--  mailman mailman user_u:object_r:mailman_data_t   /etc/mailman/aliases.db


I.e. the aliases.db is owned by 'mailman'. Also, Postfix's 'man 8
local' says in part

DELIVERY RIGHTS
       Deliveries to external files and external commands are  made 
with  the
       rights  of the receiving user on whose behalf the delivery is
made.  In
       the absence of a user context,  the  local(8)  daemon  uses  the
 owner
       rights  of  the :include: file or alias database.  When those
files are
       owned by the superuser, delivery is made with the rights
specified with
       the default_privs configuration parameter.


This says that Postfix executes the wrapper as the user who owns the
alias database in which the pipe to the wrapper is found which is
mailman, not root.

Do you have Mailman aliases in /etc/aliases too? Even that shouldn't
cause this problem as (you said) /etc/aliases.db is owned by root and
that should cause Postfix to execute any pipes found there as the
default-privs user which is normally 'nobody'.

This appears to be a Postfix issue of some kind, or perhaps not.

How is mutt delivering mail? In your log excerpt I only see

>Aug  1 13:21:44 list postfix/postfix-script: starting the Postfix mail system
>Aug  1 13:21:44 list postfix/master[2494]: daemon started -- version 2.3.3, configuration /etc/postfix
>Aug  1 13:22:23 list Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as one of the following groups: [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon], but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group: "root". Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these groups: [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon], or re-run configure providing the command line option: '--with-mail-gid=root'.

I see nothing preceding this that indicates Postfix received the mail
and tried to pipe it to the wrapper. I only see over two minutes later

>Aug  1 13:25:01 list postfix/pickup[2498]: C122C8604E0: uid=41 from=
>Aug  1 13:25:01 list postfix/cleanup[2767]: C122C8604E0: message-id=
>Aug  1 13:25:01 list postfix/qmgr[2499]: C122C8604E0: from=, size=625, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>Aug  1 13:25:02 list postfix/local[2769]: C122C8604E0: to=, orig_to=, relay=local, delay=0.51, delays=0.25/0.05/0/0.21, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent >(delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman)
>Aug  1 13:25:02 list postfix/qmgr[2499]: C122C8604E0: removed

Which looks like a successful delivery to me. Is Mailman running? Is
this message in qfiles/in? What happened to it?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Sat Aug  1 22:43:40 2009
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 15:43:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detecting Autoresponders
In-Reply-To: <web-6231257@commpartners.com>
References: <web-6231257@commpartners.com>
Message-ID: <56B904A9-AC6C-44F7-8FAB-0EAE85B7B266@goldmark.org>

On Jun 28, 2009, at 5:34 PM, Karl Zander wrote:

> This particular autoresponder is not known to be broken.

It's a bit dated, but I have a rant about broken autoresponder here:

  http://goldmark.org/netrants/auto-resp/

As others have said, if an autoresponder is responding repeatedly to  
the same address in the course of a few days it is certainly behaving  
badly.  Lotus Notes and Exchange autoresponders should not be allowed  
near the Internet.

I remove people from lists, sending a note to them and their  
postmaster saying that as long as they use broken autoresponders they  
should not join any Internet email discussion lists.


-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug  1 22:49:52 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 13:49:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and group mismatch error
In-Reply-To: <BAY118-W45A29A76E0DAB68D3C69D9DB110@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC19220090801134952092116d22e8d@msapiro>

Greg White wrote:
>
>I then use mutt (still as root) to send an email and this is what I see in /var/log/maillog
>Aug  1 13:21:44 list postfix/postfix-script: starting the Postfix mail system
>Aug  1 13:21:44 list postfix/master[2494]: daemon started -- version 2.3.3, configuration /etc/postfix
>Aug  1 13:22:23 list Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as one of the following groups: [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon], but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group: "root". Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these groups: [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon], or re-run configure providing the command line option: '--with-mail-gid=root'.


Now that I've thought about this a bit more, I think I see it more
clearly. To summarize, the above message was written by the wrapper
itself when you ran it from the command line as root.


>Aug  1 13:25:01 list postfix/pickup[2498]: C122C8604E0: uid=41 from=
>Aug  1 13:25:01 list postfix/cleanup[2767]: C122C8604E0: message-id=
>Aug  1 13:25:01 list postfix/qmgr[2499]: C122C8604E0: from=, size=625, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>Aug  1 13:25:02 list postfix/local[2769]: C122C8604E0: to=, orig_to=, relay=local, delay=0.51, delays=0.25/0.05/0/0.21, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman)
>Aug  1 13:25:02 list postfix/qmgr[2499]: C122C8604E0: removed


And these messages indicate a successful delivery to the wrapper by
Postfix with no group mismatch error of the message you sent with mutt.

So you don't have a group mismatch problem. The only group mismatch
errors occur when you run the wrapper by hand as the 'wrong' user
which is supposed to produce the group mismatch error so everything is
working.

If your posts are not reaching the 'mailman' list, there is some reason
other than aliases or group mismatch for it. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Sat Aug  1 23:18:04 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 22:18:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detecting Autoresponders
In-Reply-To: <56B904A9-AC6C-44F7-8FAB-0EAE85B7B266@goldmark.org>
References: <web-6231257@commpartners.com>
	<56B904A9-AC6C-44F7-8FAB-0EAE85B7B266@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <20090801211804.GU30597@amyl.org.uk>

On Sat, Aug 01, 2009 at 03:43:40PM -0500, Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
> On Jun 28, 2009, at 5:34 PM, Karl Zander wrote:
> 
> >This particular autoresponder is not known to be broken.
> 
> It's a bit dated, but I have a rant about broken autoresponder here:
> 
>  http://goldmark.org/netrants/auto-resp/

That's quite a nice summary, IMO.

> As others have said, if an autoresponder is responding repeatedly to  
> the same address in the course of a few days it is certainly behaving  
> badly.  Lotus Notes and Exchange autoresponders should not be allowed  
> near the Internet.

I'd rewrite that last part to:
 "Lotus Notes and poorly-setup Microsoft Exchange installations should
  not be allowed near the Internet."

(I have been known to do Exchange consultancy, but I do have a clue
regarding RFCs, mail-delivery, and amn't from the point-and-click
"set-up a Mail Server" school of practice.)

> I remove people from lists, sending a note to them and their  
> postmaster saying that as long as they use broken autoresponders they  
> should not join any Internet email discussion lists.

I'm not ~usually~ that mean: I tend to un-sub people, or set their
addresses to moderated: a few people don't realize how broken their
"approach" is. (I don't always see those messages: through filtering,
I attempt to ditch 'out of office' type messages.)

-- 
``Freedom of the press in Britain means freedom to print such of the
  proprietor's prejudices as the advertisers don't object to.''
  (Hannen Swaffer)

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Aug  2 03:36:35 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 18:36:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing confirmation requests and held messages
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908011921110.25794@gc.phys.uwm.edu>
Message-ID: <PC19220090801183635010816d22b4f@msapiro>

Gregory Skelton wrote:
>
>The problem we're having looks like this. When we have messages held for 
>moderator approval, when there "approved" the message disappears and 
>doesn't get delivered to the list. The things we've already look at are: 
>the mailman cron job, owned my mailman is in place and functioning. The 
>options for not allowing html/MIME content is disabled. This problem 
>happens all the time, and I can reproduce it consistently.


If this is Mailman 2.1.x, cron has nothing to do with mail delivery
except for periodic digests.

See the troublshooting FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9> for more
things to look at.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gskelton at gravity.phys.uwm.edu  Sun Aug  2 02:34:58 2009
From: gskelton at gravity.phys.uwm.edu (Gregory Skelton)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 19:34:58 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing confirmation requests and held messages
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009080108170101875ee68d7c@msapiro>
References: <PC1922009080108170101875ee68d7c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908011921110.25794@gc.phys.uwm.edu>


Hi Mark and et al,

I apologize for not explaining myself very well before. The collaboration 
that I work for has had MailMan lists for over 10 years, and we've 
recently run into a problem with our lists. I've read through the install 
directions and have even googled the problem; without any results.

The problem we're having looks like this. When we have messages held for 
moderator approval, when there "approved" the message disappears and 
doesn't get delivered to the list. The things we've already look at are: 
the mailman cron job, owned my mailman is in place and functioning. The 
options for not allowing html/MIME content is disabled. This problem 
happens all the time, and I can reproduce it consistently.

I'm wondering if there's anything else we've missed, doesn't anyone have 
an idea?

Thanks Much,
Gregory





On Sat, 1 Aug 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Gregory Skelton wrote:
>>
>> I'm kinda new to the administrating mailman lists, and I've recently run
>> into a problem with our current setup. We have multiple list, all the data
>> is mounted over nfs, and we're seeing missing emails. For instance, we've
>> had some users try to subscribe to a list but don't get a confirmation
>> email, other times we're seeing "held" messages no show up in the qeue for
>> the administrator to authorize them. This is starting to become a real
>> problem for our scientific colaboration, and I need to get it fixed soon.
>
>
> Is this a "new" problem, or just newly discovered? If it is a "new"
> problem, what changed?
>
>
>> We're running mailman 2.1.9, and sendmail sendmail-8.13.8-2 on a Centos
>> 5.2 system.
>>
>> Does anyone have any idea what might be the problem?
>
>
> It's almost impossible to even guess based on only the above.
>
>
>> I've ran check_perms script, and it gave me this output:
>>
>> Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
>>          This could allow other users on your system to read private
>> 	archives.
>>          If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
>>          installation manual on how to fix this.
>> No problems found
>
>
> This is completely normal.
>
>
>> And running check_db -a -v
>>
>> I noticed most of mailing list are ok, but found a few list that have this
>> problem.
>>
>> List: lalsuite-commits
>>    /var/mailman/lists/lalsuite-commits/config.pck: okay
>>    /var/mailman/lists/lalsuite-commits/config.pck.last: okay
>>     [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>> '/var/mailman/lists/lalsuite-commits/config.db'
>>     [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>> '/var/mailman/lists/lalsuite-commits/config.db.last'
>
>
> This is normal too. The lists that don't have config.db and
> config.db.last files were created under Mailman 2.1.x. Those that do
> have them were migrated from 2.0.x. In fact it is a good idea to
> remove the config.db and config.db.last files from the lists that have
> them. Otherwise, if the config.pck and config.pck.last files ever get
> corrupted, Mailman could fall back to the config.db or config.db.last
> and then you'd wind up with a years-old configuration and membership
> list.
>
>

-- 
Gregory R. Skelton Phone: (414)229-2678 (Office)
System Administrator: (920) 246-4415 (Cell)
1900 E. Kenwood Blvd: gskelton at gravity.phys.uwm.edu
University of Wisconsin : AIM/ICQ gregor159
Milwaukee, WI 53201 http://www.lsc-group.phys.uwm.edu/~gskelton
Emergency Email: gregorsk at vzw.blackberry.net

From pcguy11 at live.com  Sat Aug  1 20:43:48 2009
From: pcguy11 at live.com (Greg White)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 13:43:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and group mismatch error
In-Reply-To: <PC192200907311458510859346d694e@msapiro>
References: <BAY118-W411D8D4F6171036A0101A1DB100@phx.gbl>
	<PC192200907311458510859346d694e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BAY118-W45A29A76E0DAB68D3C69D9DB110@phx.gbl>


> Mark wrote:
>> Greg wrote:
>>
>># ls -lhZ /etc/aliases*
>>-rw-r--r-- root root system_u:object_r:etc_aliases_t /etc/aliases
>>-rw-r--r-- root root system_u:object_r:etc_aliases_t /etc/aliases.db
>>
>># ls -lhZ /etc/mailman/aliases*
>>-rw-rw---- root mailman user_u:object_r:mailman_data_t /etc/mailman/aliases
>>-rw-rw-r-- mailman mailman user_u:object_r:mailman_data_t /etc/mailman/aliases.db
>
>
> This looks good. The key thing is that Mailman's aliases.db is owned by
> mailman.
>
snip
>>
>>So do I have everything configured right??
>>Do I have to recompile mailman? If so it looks like I have to recompile starting with ./configure --with-mail-gid=root
>
>
> The above looks good. what is the exact group mismatch error message
> you get in the DSN and/or maillog when you mail to test at list.xyz.com?

To send the test message I sshd into my box as user, su - to root, and did:
# /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test
Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be
executed as one of the following groups:
[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],
but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group: "root".
Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these groups:
[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],
or re-run configure providing the command line option:
'--with-mail-gid=root'.

I then use mutt (still as root) to send an email and this is what I see in /var/log/maillog
Aug  1 13:21:44 list postfix/postfix-script: starting the Postfix mail system
Aug  1 13:21:44 list postfix/master[2494]: daemon started -- version 2.3.3, configuration /etc/postfix
Aug  1 13:22:23 list Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as one of the following groups: [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon], but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group: "root". Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these groups: [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon], or re-run configure providing the command line option: '--with-mail-gid=root'.
Aug  1 13:25:01 list postfix/pickup[2498]: C122C8604E0: uid=41 from=
Aug  1 13:25:01 list postfix/cleanup[2767]: C122C8604E0: message-id=
Aug  1 13:25:01 list postfix/qmgr[2499]: C122C8604E0: from=, size=625, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Aug  1 13:25:02 list postfix/local[2769]: C122C8604E0: to=, orig_to=, relay=local, delay=0.51, delays=0.25/0.05/0/0.21, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman)
Aug  1 13:25:02 list postfix/qmgr[2499]: C122C8604E0: removed
Aug  1 13:25:04 list postfix/smtpd[2771]: connect from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
Aug  1 13:25:04 list postfix/smtpd[2771]: 792BE8604DD: client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
Aug  1 13:25:04 list postfix/cleanup[2767]: 792BE8604DD: message-id=
Aug  1 13:25:04 list postfix/qmgr[2499]: 792BE8604DD: from=, size=1952, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Aug  1 13:25:04 list postfix/smtpd[2771]: disconnect from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
Aug  1 13:25:04 list postfix/local[2769]: 792BE8604DD: to=, relay=local, delay=0.07, delays=0.01/0/0/0.06, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to maildir)
Aug  1 13:25:04 list postfix/qmgr[2499]: 792BE8604DD: removed
Aug  1 13:26:19 list postfix/pickup[2498]: C49B88604E0: uid=0 from=
Aug  1 13:26:19 list postfix/cleanup[2767]: C49B88604E0: message-id=
Aug  1 13:26:19 list postfix/qmgr[2499]: C49B88604E0: from=, size=418, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Aug  1 13:26:20 list postfix/local[2769]: C49B88604E0: to=, relay=local, delay=0.28, delays=0.1/0/0/0.18, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test)
Aug  1 13:26:20 list postfix/qmgr[2499]: C49B88604E0: removed

Finally I exit root and go back to being a user and I do:
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test
Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be
executed as one of the following groups:
[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],
but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group: "user".
Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these groups:
[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],
or re-run configure providing the command line option:
'--with-mail-gid=user'.

Thanks,
Greg

_________________________________________________________________
Get free photo software from Windows Live
http://www.windowslive.com/online/photos?ocid=PID23393::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_PH_software:082009

From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Sat Aug  1 22:24:28 2009
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (tanstaafl at libertytrek.org)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 16:24:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman user password
Message-ID: <4A74A47C.6050402@libertytrek.org>

Hello,

I'm still trying to fix a problem I've had for a long time (started
after an update) where mailman won't start from the standard init
script. I think I have finally figured out what the problem is, but
wanted to ask...

Is the mailman user supposed to be passwordless?

I know I'm running a non vanilla version, but my question is mostly
generic I think...

Currently, the init script contains:

su - mailman -c '/bin/mailmanctl -s start' >/dev/null 2>&1

When I do this from a non-root account:

myuser at myhost ~ $ su - mailman -c '/bin/mailmanctl -s start' >/dev/null 2>&1

I see this in the log:

myhost su[6114]: pam_unix(su:auth): authentication failure;
logname=myuser uid=1001 euid=0 tty=pts/2 ruser=myuser rhost=  user=mailman
myhost su[6114]: pam_authenticate: Authentication failure
myhost su[6114]: FAILED su for mailman by myuser
myhost su[6114]: - pts/2 myuser:mailman

My problem is I don't know how this works/is supposed to work. Is
mailmans passwd supposed to be empty/blank? That seems like a bad idea,
but if not, how is it supposed to start without giving the password for
the mailman account somehow?

It starts fine if I start it from the command line as root, so it has to
be something to do with the init script and/or permissions (the password
for the mailman account)...

Thanks for any comments/thoughts...

From kremels at kreme.com  Sun Aug  2 09:34:05 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 01:34:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and group mismatch error
In-Reply-To: <BAY118-W45A29A76E0DAB68D3C69D9DB110@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY118-W411D8D4F6171036A0101A1DB100@phx.gbl>
	<PC192200907311458510859346d694e@msapiro>
	<BAY118-W45A29A76E0DAB68D3C69D9DB110@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <18F83983-23CE-4A80-A833-1437FF49150F@kreme.com>

On 1-Aug-2009, at 12:43, Greg White wrote:
> To send the test message I sshd into my box as user, su - to root,  
> and did:
> # /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test
> Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be
> executed as one of the following groups:
> [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],
> but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group:  
> "root".
> Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these groups:
> [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],
> or re-run configure providing the command line option:
> '--with-mail-gid=root'.

Right. The error message is quite clear. Why do you think running the  
command as root WOULD work?

try su mailman ( or sudo -u mailman ) and then run the command.

> I then use mutt (still as root) to send an email and this is what I  
> see in /var/log/maillog

Sent an email to what, exactly? the list?

> Aug  1 13:21:44 list postfix/postfix-script: starting the Postfix  
> mail system
> Aug  1 13:21:44 list postfix/master[2494]: daemon started -- version  
> 2.3.3, configuration /etc/postfix
> Aug  1 13:22:23 list Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.  
> Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as one of  
> the following groups: [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon], but  
> the system's mail server executed the mail script as group: "root".  
> Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these  
> groups: [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon], or re-run  
> configure providing the command line option: '--with-mail-gid=root'.

This looks like test attempt above.

> Aug  1 13:25:02 list postfix/local[2769]: C122C8604E0: to=,  
> orig_to=, relay=local, delay=0.51, delays=0.25/0.05/0/0.21,  
> dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/ 
> mailman post mailman)

That worked. Mailman is configured correctly.

> Finally I exit root and go back to being a user and I do:
> /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test

And why do you think that would work? Again, the error message is  
quite clear.

What is the problem? It looks to me like everything is working properly.


-- 
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons for you are crunchy and
	taste good with ketchup


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Aug  2 09:54:45 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 16:54:45 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detecting Autoresponders
In-Reply-To: <20090801211804.GU30597@amyl.org.uk>
References: <web-6231257@commpartners.com>
	<56B904A9-AC6C-44F7-8FAB-0EAE85B7B266@goldmark.org>
	<20090801211804.GU30597@amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <87k51md516.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Adam McGreggor writes:

 > > As others have said, if an autoresponder is responding repeatedly to  
 > > the same address in the course of a few days it is certainly behaving  
 > > badly.  Lotus Notes and Exchange autoresponders should not be allowed  
 > > near the Internet.
 > 
 > I'd rewrite that last part to:
 >  "Lotus Notes and poorly-setup Microsoft Exchange installations should
 >   not be allowed near the Internet."

I'm not sure that's acceptable.  People might be tempted to think that
MCSE + CCNA qualify one to do better than "poorly set up" a mail
server. :-/

 > "approach" is. (I don't always see those messages: through filtering,
 > I attempt to ditch 'out of office' type messages.)

My butt has been saved (from Usenet-style flaming, not corporate-style
firing) on a number of occasions by the practice of making my personal
filter a subset of the rules used on my lists.  I realize for various
reasons that's not always feasible, but it's a good rule of thumb to
start with.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Aug  2 11:13:34 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 18:13:34 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  mailman user password
In-Reply-To: <4A74A47C.6050402@libertytrek.org>
References: <4A74A47C.6050402@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: <87eirud1dt.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

tanstaafl at libertytrek.org writes:

 > Is the mailman user supposed to be passwordless?

AFAIK there is no need to log in as the mailman user, so that user
should have no password (in the sense of "disabled", not in the sense
of "zero-length string").

 > When I do this from a non-root account:
 > 
 > myuser at myhost ~ $ su - mailman -c '/bin/mailmanctl -s start' >/dev/null 2>&1

[it doesn't work as expected]

 > My problem is I don't know how this works/is supposed to work.

It's not supposed to work.  mailman privileges should only be
accessible by the system administrator, ie, someone who has the root
password.

 > It starts fine if I start it from the command line as root,

That's how you're supposed to do it, if you need to do it.

 > so it has to be something to do with the init script and/or
 > permissions (the password for the mailman account)...

It's not a problem with the password for the mailman user. :-)

The init script itself may be broken.  AFAIK, the init script should
be invoking the set-gid binary called "mailman" or "wrapper".  This
just cleans up the environment, changes the effective user id to
mailman, and execs the command specified.  (There's no good reason for
*any* mailman program to be on anybody's PATH, so yes, just having
/bin/mailmanctl makes your installation nonstandard.)

The best thing to do at this point is to run the check_perms script
provided with mailman.  It usually resides in $prefix/lib/mailman/bin,
but since your installation is non-standard, you may have to search
a bit.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Aug  2 16:05:51 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 07:05:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman user password
In-Reply-To: <4A74A47C.6050402@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: <PC19220090802070551085981dc83ce@msapiro>

tanstaafl at libertytrek.org wrote:
>
>Is the mailman user supposed to be passwordless?


It doesn't matter. It's up to you and your own policy.


>I know I'm running a non vanilla version, but my question is mostly
>generic I think...
>
>Currently, the init script contains:
>
>su - mailman -c '/bin/mailmanctl -s start' >/dev/null 2>&1


This is the real issue. mailmanctl should always be run by root. Your
init script should just contain

/bin/mailmanctl -s start >/dev/null 2>&1

without the su - mailman


>When I do this from a non-root account:
>
>myuser at myhost ~ $ su - mailman -c '/bin/mailmanctl -s start' >/dev/null 2>&1
>
>I see this in the log:
>
>myhost su[6114]: pam_unix(su:auth): authentication failure;
>logname=myuser uid=1001 euid=0 tty=pts/2 ruser=myuser rhost=  user=mailman
>myhost su[6114]: pam_authenticate: Authentication failure
>myhost su[6114]: FAILED su for mailman by myuser
>myhost su[6114]: - pts/2 myuser:mailman
>
>My problem is I don't know how this works/is supposed to work. Is
>mailmans passwd supposed to be empty/blank? That seems like a bad idea,
>but if not, how is it supposed to start without giving the password for
>the mailman account somehow?


You're supposed to start it as root. Unprivileged users aren't supposed
to be able to start, stop, restart Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From eharvey at lyricsemiconductors.com  Sun Aug  2 17:44:10 2009
From: eharvey at lyricsemiconductors.com (Edward Harvey)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 11:44:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable attachment scrubbing?
In-Reply-To: <PC192200907311423110250119d7bc5@msapiro>
References: <010001ca1221$2778cf50$766a6df0$@com>
	<PC192200907311423110250119d7bc5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <001e01ca1388$14743300$3d5c9900$@com>

> If you mean include an arbitrary binary attachment (say an executable
> file) displayed inline in the archived message rather that removed and
> replaced by a link, then no, there is no way to do that.
>
> If you mean replace the attachment with a link that preserves the
> original attachment file name and extension, put the following in
> mm_cfg.py
>
> SCRUBBER_DONT_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME = False
> SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION = True


That is precisely what I was looking for, thank you very much.

The root cause of the problem was - People are starting to use docx and
xlsx files by default now, and these mime types aren't recognized (at
least in the version of mailman that I have.)  So they get renamed
"attachment.bin" and that's a problem for non-technical users.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Aug  2 18:10:11 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 09:10:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable attachment scrubbing?
In-Reply-To: <001e01ca1388$14743300$3d5c9900$@com>
Message-ID: <PC192200908020910110328b08f1513@msapiro>

Edward Harvey quoted me and wrote:
>>
>> If you mean replace the attachment with a link that preserves the
>> original attachment file name and extension, put the following in
>> mm_cfg.py
>>
>> SCRUBBER_DONT_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME = False
>> SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION = True
>
>
>That is precisely what I was looking for, thank you very much.
>
>The root cause of the problem was - People are starting to use docx and
>xlsx files by default now, and these mime types aren't recognized (at
>least in the version of mailman that I have.)  So they get renamed
>"attachment.bin" and that's a problem for non-technical users.


Actually, it's not mailman that doesn't recognize the MIME type.
Mailman (Scrubber) calls the Python library
mimetypes.guess_all_extensions() to 'guess' the extension for the MIME
type. This in turn, at least with Python 2.3 and newer, looks in the
following list of system files for mappings from MIME type to
extension.


knownfiles = [
    "/etc/mime.types",
    "/etc/httpd/mime.types",                    # Mac OS X
    "/etc/httpd/conf/mime.types",               # Apache
    "/etc/apache/mime.types",                   # Apache 1
    "/etc/apache2/mime.types",                  # Apache 2
    "/usr/local/etc/httpd/conf/mime.types",
    "/usr/local/lib/netscape/mime.types",
    "/usr/local/etc/httpd/conf/mime.types",     # Apache 1.2
    "/usr/local/etc/mime.types",                # Apache 1.3
    ]


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From sanchiro at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 00:36:18 2009
From: sanchiro at gmail.com (Scott Jones)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 16:36:18 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set up mailman, but no email notification
Message-ID: <d5c086b20908021536g648dbaeet2fb85dd68724dbc9@mail.gmail.com>

I finally got mailman working to the point I created 'mailman' list
successfully. Everything has worked correctly, but despite it showing
that mailman has sent a notice to the administrator email account,
that email has never made it into my email inbox.

What would cause that email not to correctly send out the message?

Scott

From pcguy11 at live.com  Mon Aug  3 16:38:23 2009
From: pcguy11 at live.com (Greg White)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 09:38:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and group mismatch error
In-Reply-To: <PC19220090801134952092116d22e8d@msapiro>
References: <BAY118-W45A29A76E0DAB68D3C69D9DB110@phx.gbl>
	<PC19220090801134952092116d22e8d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BAY118-W3AE2E2DD29612710448A3DB0F0@phx.gbl>


> Mark wrote:
>> Greg White wrote:
>>
>>I then use mutt (still as root) to send an email and this is what I see in /var/log/maillog
>>Aug 1 13:21:44 list postfix/postfix-script: starting the Postfix mail system
>>Aug 1 13:21:44 list postfix/master[2494]: daemon started -- version 2.3.3, configuration /etc/postfix
>>Aug 1 13:22:23 list Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as one of the following groups: [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon], but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group: "root". Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these groups: [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon], or re-run configure providing the command line option: '--with-mail-gid=root'.
>
>
> Now that I've thought about this a bit more, I think I see it more
> clearly. To summarize, the above message was written by the wrapper
> itself when you ran it from the command line as root.
>
>
>>Aug 1 13:25:01 list postfix/pickup[2498]: C122C8604E0: uid=41 from=
>>Aug 1 13:25:01 list postfix/cleanup[2767]: C122C8604E0: message-id=
>>Aug 1 13:25:01 list postfix/qmgr[2499]: C122C8604E0: from=, size=625, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>>Aug 1 13:25:02 list postfix/local[2769]: C122C8604E0: to=, orig_to=, relay=local, delay=0.51, delays=0.25/0.05/0/0.21, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman)
>>Aug 1 13:25:02 list postfix/qmgr[2499]: C122C8604E0: removed
>
>
> And these messages indicate a successful delivery to the wrapper by
> Postfix with no group mismatch error of the message you sent with mutt.
>
> So you don't have a group mismatch problem. The only group mismatch
> errors occur when you run the wrapper by hand as the 'wrong' user
> which is supposed to produce the group mismatch error so everything is
> working.
>
> If your posts are not reaching the 'mailman' list, there is some reason
> other than aliases or group mismatch for it. See the FAQ at

1)
# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms
Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
         This could allow other users on your system to read private archives.
         If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
         installation manual on how to fix this.
No problems found

2a)
# ps aux |grep cron |grep -v grep
root      2503  0.0  0.1   5288  1208 ?        Ss   08:24   0:00 crond
root      2519  0.0  0.0   1668   624 ?        SNs  08:24   0:00 anacron -s

2b)
# ps auxww| grep mailmanctl |grep -v grep
mailman   2615  0.0  0.5  13060  4880 ?        Ss   08:24   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start

3)
# grep wrapper /etc/aliases
no results
# grep mailman /etc/aliases
no results

Since my aliases aren't in /etc/aliases I ran the following too:
# grep wrapper /etc/mailman/aliases
no results

# grep mailman /etc/mailman/aliases
mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox
# STANZA START: mailman
mailman:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
# STANZA END: mailman
test:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test"
test-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin test"
test-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces test"
test-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm test"
test-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join test"
test-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave test"
test-owner:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner test"
test-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request test"
test-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe test"
test-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe test"

4) Not applicable as sendmail is not installed.
5) Not applicable as sendmail is not installed.

6a) not applicable as I am using 2.1.9-4.el5
6b) no command to run
7) I can't find the locks.
8)
#cat /var/log/mailman/smtp
Aug 03 08:25:03 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.101 seconds
Aug 03 08:30:02 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.040 seconds
Aug 03 08:35:02 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.040 seconds
Aug 03 08:40:05 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.039 seconds
Aug 03 08:45:04 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.042 seconds
Aug 03 08:50:04 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.041 seconds
Aug 03 08:55:04 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.040 seconds
Aug 03 09:00:04 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.041 seconds
Aug 03 09:00:04 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.052 seconds
Aug 03 09:05:03 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.041 seconds
Aug 03 09:10:03 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.041 seconds
Aug 03 09:15:04 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.041 seconds
Aug 03 09:20:04 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.041 seconds
Aug 03 09:25:04 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.042 seconds
 
#cat /var/log/mailman/qrunner
Aug 03 08:24:27 2009 (2617) ArchRunner qrunner started.
Aug 03 08:24:27 2009 (2620) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Aug 03 08:24:27 2009 (2619) CommandRunner qrunner started.
Aug 03 08:24:27 2009 (2623) VirginRunner qrunner started.
Aug 03 08:24:27 2009 (2625) RetryRunner qrunner started.
Aug 03 08:24:27 2009 (2621) NewsRunner qrunner started.
Aug 03 08:24:27 2009 (2618) BounceRunner qrunner started.
Aug 03 08:24:27 2009 (2622) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.

The rest were empty or didn't exist.

9) All folders are empty.
10) I added SMTPHOST='127.0.0.1' to my mm_cfy.py, restarted mailman, service stop mailman, service start mailman, tried  sudo -u mailman /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post sjpd
and it still didn't do anything.
11) No mm-handler found

Thanks,


_________________________________________________________________
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http://windowsliveformobile.com/en-us/photos/default.aspx?&OCID=0809TL-HM

From pcguy11 at live.com  Mon Aug  3 16:42:53 2009
From: pcguy11 at live.com (Greg White)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 09:42:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and group mismatch error
In-Reply-To: <18F83983-23CE-4A80-A833-1437FF49150F@kreme.com>
References: <BAY118-W411D8D4F6171036A0101A1DB100@phx.gbl>
	<PC192200907311458510859346d694e@msapiro>
	<BAY118-W45A29A76E0DAB68D3C69D9DB110@phx.gbl> 
	<18F83983-23CE-4A80-A833-1437FF49150F@kreme.com>
Message-ID: <BAY118-W10D5CA769B2FFA97738DDDDB0F0@phx.gbl>


> kremels at kreme.com wrote:
> On 1-Aug-2009, at 12:43, Greg White wrote:
>> To send the test message I sshd into my box as user, su - to root,
>> and did:
>> # /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test
>> Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be
>> executed as one of the following groups:
>> [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],
>> but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group:
>> "root".
>> Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these groups:
>> [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],
>> or re-run configure providing the command line option:
>> '--with-mail-gid=root'.
>
> Right. The error message is quite clear. Why do you think running the
> command as root WOULD work?
>
> try su mailman ( or sudo -u mailman ) and then run the command.

Since the mailman account on a centos and redhat system is setup as nologin how else would you send a post?

>> I then use mutt (still as root) to send an email and this is what I
>> see in /var/log/maillog
>
> Sent an email to what, exactly? the list?

I tried to post a message to the list.  I started mutt, pressed m, to: test at xyz.com, subject test, wrote this is a test :wq, pressed y to send.

>> Aug 1 13:21:44 list postfix/postfix-script: starting the Postfix
>> mail system
>> Aug 1 13:21:44 list postfix/master[2494]: daemon started -- version
>> 2.3.3, configuration /etc/postfix
>> Aug 1 13:22:23 list Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.
>> Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as one of
>> the following groups: [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon], but
>> the system's mail server executed the mail script as group: "root".
>> Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these
>> groups: [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon], or re-run
>> configure providing the command line option: '--with-mail-gid=root'.
>
> This looks like test attempt above.
>
>> Aug 1 13:25:02 list postfix/local[2769]: C122C8604E0: to=,
>> orig_to=, relay=local, delay=0.51, delays=0.25/0.05/0/0.21,
>> dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/
>> mailman post mailman)
>
> That worked. Mailman is configured correctly.
>
>> Finally I exit root and go back to being a user and I do:
>> /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test
>
> And why do you think that would work? Again, the error message is
> quite clear.
>
> What is the problem? It looks to me like everything is working properly.

If the mailman user can't login can I post to the list?

_________________________________________________________________
Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1

From pcguy11 at live.com  Mon Aug  3 16:11:30 2009
From: pcguy11 at live.com (Greg White)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 09:11:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and group mismatch error
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009080113052501257f746656@msapiro>
References: <BAY118-W45A29A76E0DAB68D3C69D9DB110@phx.gbl>
	<PC1922009080113052501257f746656@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BAY118-W35E6943BC4D47232BBA8A8DB0F0@phx.gbl>






> Mark wrote:

>> Greg White wrote:

>>

>>> Mark wrote:

>>>

>>> The above looks good. what is the exact group mismatch error
message

>>> you get in the DSN and/or maillog when you mail to
test at list.xyz.com?

>>

>>To send the test message I sshd into my box as user, su - to root, and
did:

>># /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test

>>Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be

>>executed as one of the following groups:

>>[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],

>>but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group:
"root".

>>Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these groups:

>>[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],

>>or re-run configure providing the command line option:

>>'--with-mail-gid=root'.

>

>

> As I said in an earlier post, this means nothing. It only says that

> root can't run the wrapper, but says nothing about Postfix running the

> wrapper.



If this means nothing then way is it displayed?  It is a worrysome message for the first time maillist admin.



>>I then use mutt (still as root) to send an email and this is what I
see in /var/log/maillog

>>Aug 1 13:21:44 list postfix/postfix-script: starting the Postfix mail
system

>>Aug 1 13:21:44 list postfix/master[2494]: daemon started -- version
2.3.3, configuration /etc/postfix

>>Aug 1 13:22:23 list Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.
Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as one of the following
groups: [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon], but the system's mail server
executed the mail script as group: "root". Try tweaking the mail
server to run the script as one of these groups: [mail, postfix, mailman,
nobody, daemon], or re-run configure providing the command line option:
'--with-mail-gid=root'.

>

>

> OK. This one is meaningful. It says Postfix is trying to run the

> wrapper as root (or does it?), and that is a problem. See below for

> more.

>

>

>>Finally I exit root and go back to being a user and I do:

>>/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test

>>Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be

>>executed as one of the following groups:

>>[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],

>>but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group:
"user".

>>Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these groups:

>>[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],

>>or re-run configure providing the command line option:

>>'--with-mail-gid=user'.

>

>

> Again, this one is not relevant. If you do

>

> sudo -u mailman /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test

>

> it should work. That is also what Postfix should be doing.

>

> Earlier you said -

>

>># ls -lhZ /etc/mailman/aliases*

>>-rw-rw---- root mailman user_u:object_r:mailman_data_t
/etc/mailman/aliases

>>-rw-rw-r-- mailman mailman user_u:object_r:mailman_data_t
/etc/mailman/aliases.db

>

>

> I.e. the aliases.db is owned by 'mailman'. Also, Postfix's 'man 8

> local' says in part

>

> DELIVERY RIGHTS

> Deliveries to external files and external commands are made

> with the

> rights of the receiving user on whose behalf the delivery is

> made. In

> the absence of a user context, the local(8) daemon uses the

> owner

> rights of the :include: file or alias database. When those

> files are

> owned by the superuser, delivery is made with the rights

> specified with

> the default_privs configuration parameter.

>

>

> This says that Postfix executes the wrapper as the user who owns the

> alias database in which the pipe to the wrapper is found which is

> mailman, not root.

>

> Do you have Mailman aliases in /etc/aliases too? Even that shouldn't

> cause this problem as (you said) /etc/aliases.db is owned by root and

> that should cause Postfix to execute any pipes found there as the

> default-privs user which is normally 'nobody'.

>

> This appears to be a Postfix issue of some kind, or perhaps not.

>

> How is mutt delivering mail? In your log excerpt I only see

>

>>Aug 1 13:21:44 list postfix/postfix-script: starting the Postfix mail
system

>>Aug 1 13:21:44 list postfix/master[2494]: daemon started -- version
2.3.3, configuration /etc/postfix

>>Aug 1 13:22:23 list Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.
Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as one of the following
groups: [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon], but the system's mail server
executed the mail script as group: "root". Try tweaking the mail
server to run the script as one of these groups: [mail, postfix, mailman,
nobody, daemon], or re-run configure providing the command line option:
'--with-mail-gid=root'.

>

> I see nothing preceding this that indicates Postfix received the mail

> and tried to pipe it to the wrapper. I only see over two minutes later

>

>>Aug 1 13:25:01 list postfix/pickup[2498]: C122C8604E0: uid=41 from=

>>Aug 1 13:25:01 list postfix/cleanup[2767]: C122C8604E0: message-id=

>>Aug 1 13:25:01 list postfix/qmgr[2499]: C122C8604E0: from=, size=625,
nrcpt=1 (queue active)

>>Aug 1 13:25:02 list postfix/local[2769]: C122C8604E0: to=, orig_to=,
relay=local, delay=0.51, delays=0.25/0.05/0/0.21, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent
>(delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman)

>>Aug 1 13:25:02 list postfix/qmgr[2499]: C122C8604E0: removed

>

> Which looks like a successful delivery to me. Is Mailman running? Is

> this message in qfiles/in? What happened to it?


No there are no mailman aliases in the /etc/aliases file.  Mutt should be using the local postfix server to send the message.  I checked /etc/Muttrc and there is no setting for smtp.


Mailman is running.  Logging in as root and doing:

# su mailman /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test

This account is currently not available.



# sudo -u mailman /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test

The system just sits there and does nothing.  There is only 1 account
signed up for the mail list so it should take 10 minutes to do something. 
It has been 10 minutes since I pressed enter and nothing has happened.  I waited 30 minutes and pressed Ctrl-C.  This is what I saw:Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/post", line 69, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/post", line 62, in main
    inq.enqueue(sys.stdin.read(),
KeyboardInterrupt


How am I supposed to post to the maillist if I can't do it from root or a user
account.  I can't login into the system as mailman:

# cat /etc/passwd

mailman:x:41:41:GNU Mailing List Manager:/usr/lib/mailman:/sbin/nologin




The following is everything from the /var/log/maillog since I turn the PC on

this morning:



Aug  3 08:24:18 list postfix/postfix-script: starting the Postfix mail

system

Aug  3 08:24:18 list postfix/master[2468]: daemon started -- version

2.3.3, configuration /etc/postfix

Aug  3 08:25:02 list postfix/pickup[2472]: 38DFD8604E0: uid=41

from=

Aug  3 08:25:02 list postfix/cleanup[2711]: 38DFD8604E0:

message-id=

Aug  3 08:25:02 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: 38DFD8604E0:
from=,

size=625, nrcpt=1 (queue active)

Aug  3 08:25:02 list postfix/local[2713]: 38DFD8604E0:
to=,

orig_to=, relay=local, delay=0.56, delays=0.28/0.05/0/0.23,

dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman

post mailman)

Aug  3 08:25:02 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: 38DFD8604E0: removed

Aug  3 08:25:03 list postfix/smtpd[2715]: connect from

localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]

Aug  3 08:25:03 list postfix/smtpd[2715]: BEB718604DD:

client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]

Aug  3 08:25:03 list postfix/cleanup[2711]: BEB718604DD:

message-id=

Aug  3 08:25:03 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: BEB718604DD:

from=, size=1952, nrcpt=1 (queue active)

Aug  3 08:25:03 list postfix/smtpd[2715]: disconnect from

localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]

Aug  3 08:25:03 list postfix/local[2713]: BEB718604DD:
to=,

relay=local, delay=0.09, delays=0.01/0/0/0.07, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent

(delivered to maildir)

Aug  3 08:25:03 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: BEB718604DD: removed

Aug  3 08:30:01 list postfix/pickup[2472]: 694258604E0: uid=41

from=

Aug  3 08:30:01 list postfix/cleanup[2723]: 694258604E0:

message-id=

Aug  3 08:30:01 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: 694258604E0:
from=,

size=625, nrcpt=1 (queue active)

Aug  3 08:30:01 list postfix/local[2725]: 694258604E0:
to=,

orig_to=, relay=local, delay=0.31, delays=0.14/0.01/0/0.16,

dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman

post mailman)

Aug  3 08:30:01 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: 694258604E0: removed

Aug  3 08:30:02 list postfix/smtpd[2727]: connect from
localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]

Aug  3 08:30:02 list postfix/smtpd[2727]: DCB7F8604DD:

client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]

Aug  3 08:30:02 list postfix/cleanup[2723]: DCB7F8604DD:

message-id=

Aug  3 08:30:02 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: DCB7F8604DD:

from=, size=1952, nrcpt=1 (queue active)

Aug  3 08:30:02 list postfix/smtpd[2727]: disconnect from

localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]

Aug  3 08:30:02 list postfix/local[2725]: DCB7F8604DD:
to=,

relay=local, delay=0.02, delays=0.01/0.01/0/0, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent

(delivered to maildir)

Aug  3 08:30:02 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: DCB7F8604DD: removed

Aug  3 08:35:01 list postfix/pickup[2472]: 92E238604E0: uid=41

from=

Aug  3 08:35:01 list postfix/cleanup[2735]: 92E238604E0:

message-id=

Aug  3 08:35:01 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: 92E238604E0:
from=,

size=625, nrcpt=1 (queue active)

Aug  3 08:35:01 list postfix/local[2737]: 92E238604E0: to=,

orig_to=, relay=local, delay=0.41, delays=0.13/0.01/0/0.27,

dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman

post mailman)

Aug  3 08:35:01 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: 92E238604E0: removed

Aug  3 08:35:02 list postfix/smtpd[2739]: connect from

localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]

Aug  3 08:35:02 list postfix/smtpd[2739]: E853B8604DD:

client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]

Aug  3 08:35:02 list postfix/cleanup[2735]: E853B8604DD:

message-id=

Aug  3 08:35:02 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: E853B8604DD:

from=, size=1952, nrcpt=1 (queue active)

Aug  3 08:35:02 list postfix/smtpd[2739]: disconnect from
localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]

Aug  3 08:35:02 list postfix/local[2737]: E853B8604DD:
to=,

relay=local, delay=0.02, delays=0.01/0.01/0/0, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent

(delivered to maildir)

Aug  3 08:35:02 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: E853B8604DD: removed

Aug  3 08:40:02 list postfix/pickup[2472]: 1E5398604F5: uid=41

from=

Aug  3 08:40:02 list postfix/cleanup[2836]: 1E5398604F5:

message-id=

Aug  3 08:40:02 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: 1E5398604F5:
from=,

size=625, nrcpt=1 (queue active)

Aug  3 08:40:02 list postfix/local[2838]: 1E5398604F5:
to=,

orig_to=, relay=local, delay=0.43, delays=0.25/0.01/0/0.17,

dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman

post mailman)

Aug  3 08:40:02 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: 1E5398604F5: removed

Aug  3 08:40:04 list postfix/smtpd[2840]: connect from

localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]

Aug  3 08:40:05 list postfix/smtpd[2840]: 00ED08604E3:
client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]

Aug  3 08:40:05 list postfix/cleanup[2836]: 00ED08604E3:

message-id=

Aug  3 08:40:05 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: 00ED08604E3:

from=, size=1952, nrcpt=1 (queue active)

Aug  3 08:40:05 list postfix/smtpd[2840]: disconnect from

localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]

Aug  3 08:40:05 list postfix/local[2838]: 00ED08604E3:
to=,

relay=local, delay=0.02, delays=0.01/0.01/0/0, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent

(delivered to maildir)

Aug  3 08:40:05 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: 00ED08604E3: removed

Aug  3 08:45:01 list postfix/pickup[2472]: 64CBB8604F5: uid=41
from=

Aug  3 08:45:01 list postfix/cleanup[2923]: 64CBB8604F5:
message-id=

Aug  3 08:45:01 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: 64CBB8604F5:
from=, size=625, nrcpt=1 (queue active)

Aug  3 08:45:01 list postfix/local[2925]: 64CBB8604F5:
to=, orig_to=, relay=local, delay=0.29,
delays=0.12/0.01/0/0.16, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command:
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman)

Aug  3 08:45:01 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: 64CBB8604F5: removed

Aug  3 08:45:04 list postfix/smtpd[2927]: connect from
localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]

Aug  3 08:45:04 list postfix/smtpd[2927]: 0EA3D8604E3:
client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]

Aug  3 08:45:04 list postfix/cleanup[2923]: 0EA3D8604E3:
message-id=

Aug  3 08:45:04 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: 0EA3D8604E3:
from=, size=1952, nrcpt=1 (queue active)

Aug  3 08:45:04 list postfix/smtpd[2927]: disconnect from
localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]

Aug  3 08:45:04 list postfix/local[2925]: 0EA3D8604E3:
to=, relay=local, delay=0.03, delays=0.01/0/0/0.01,
dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to maildir)

Aug  3 08:45:04 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: 0EA3D8604E3: removed

Aug  3 08:50:01 list postfix/pickup[2472]: AAA1E8604F5: uid=41
from=

Aug  3 08:50:01 list postfix/cleanup[2936]: AAA1E8604F5:
message-id=

Aug  3 08:50:01 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: AAA1E8604F5:
from=, size=625, nrcpt=1 (queue active)

Aug  3 08:50:01 list postfix/local[2938]: AAA1E8604F5:
to=, orig_to=, relay=local, delay=0.3,
delays=0.13/0.01/0/0.16, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command:
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman)

Aug  3 08:50:01 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: AAA1E8604F5: removed

Aug  3 08:50:04 list postfix/smtpd[2940]: connect from
localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]

Aug  3 08:50:04 list postfix/smtpd[2940]: 1C3DA8604E3:
client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]

Aug  3 08:50:04 list postfix/cleanup[2936]: 1C3DA8604E3:
message-id=

Aug  3 08:50:04 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: 1C3DA8604E3:
from=, size=1952, nrcpt=1 (queue active)

Aug  3 08:50:04 list postfix/smtpd[2940]: disconnect from
localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]

Aug  3 08:50:04 list postfix/local[2938]: 1C3DA8604E3:
to=, relay=local, delay=0.02, delays=0.01/0/0/0.01,
dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to maildir)

Aug  3 08:50:04 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: 1C3DA8604E3: removed


_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=PID23384::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:NF_BR_sync:082009

From b19141 at anl.gov  Mon Aug  3 17:18:01 2009
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Mon,  3 Aug 2009 10:18:01 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set up mailman, but no email notification
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Scott Jones <sanchiro@gmail.com>'
	dated: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 16:36:18 -0600
Message-ID: <20090803151801.98DEB175A2@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

Scott Jones <sanchiro at gmail.com> wrote:

>I finally got mailman working to the point I created 'mailman' list
>successfully. Everything has worked correctly, but despite it showing
>that mailman has sent a notice to the administrator email account,
>that email has never made it into my email inbox.
>
>What would cause that email not to correctly send out the message?
>
>Scott

You have not told us what your Mail Transport Agent is (sendmail,
Postfix, ...).  You need to look at the MTA logs to see if the mail from
Mailman is reaching the MTA.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug  3 05:11:31 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 20:11:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set up mailman, but no email notification
In-Reply-To: <d5c086b20908021536g648dbaeet2fb85dd68724dbc9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC192200908022011310953d546dd58@msapiro>

Scott Jones wrote:

>I finally got mailman working to the point I created 'mailman' list
>successfully. Everything has worked correctly, but despite it showing
>that mailman has sent a notice to the administrator email account,
>that email has never made it into my email inbox.
>
>What would cause that email not to correctly send out the message?


Mailman not running or any of the other issues discussed in the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug  3 16:43:52 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 07:43:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and group mismatch error
In-Reply-To: <BAY118-W35E6943BC4D47232BBA8A8DB0F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC192200908030743520953cbdcc8ed@msapiro>

Greg White wrote:
>
>> Mark wrote:
>
>>> Greg White wrote:
>>>
>>>To send the test message I sshd into my box as user, su - to root, and
>did:
>
>>># /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test
>
>>>Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be
>>>executed as one of the following groups:
>>>[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],
>>>but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group:
>"root".
>>>Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these groups:
>>>[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],
>>>or re-run configure providing the command line option:
>>>'--with-mail-gid=root'.
>>
>>
>> As I said in an earlier post, this means nothing. It only says that
>> root can't run the wrapper, but says nothing about Postfix running the
>> wrapper.
>
>
>
>If this means nothing then way is it displayed?  It is a worrysome message for the first time maillist admin.


It is displayed because you ran the wrapper from the command line as
root and root's group is not allowed to run the wrapper.

It means nothing because that is not how mail is delivered to Mailman.
Mail is delivered by the MTA executing the wrapper, so the only
meaningful test is to run the wrapper as the same group that the MTA
runs it.



[...]
>> How is mutt delivering mail? In your log excerpt I only see
>>
>>>Aug 1 13:21:44 list postfix/postfix-script: starting the Postfix mail
>system
>>>Aug 1 13:21:44 list postfix/master[2494]: daemon started -- version
>2.3.3, configuration /etc/postfix
>>>Aug 1 13:22:23 list Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.
>Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as one of the following
>groups: [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon], but the system's mail server
>executed the mail script as group: "root". Try tweaking the mail
>server to run the script as one of these groups: [mail, postfix, mailman,
>nobody, daemon], or re-run configure providing the command line option:
>'--with-mail-gid=root'.
>>
>> I see nothing preceding this that indicates Postfix received the mail
>> and tried to pipe it to the wrapper. I only see over two minutes later


And as I said in a follow-up post and LuKreme said in a reply, the
above log message was logged by the wrapper when you ran it by hand as
root.


>>>Aug 1 13:25:01 list postfix/pickup[2498]: C122C8604E0: uid=41 from=
>>>Aug 1 13:25:01 list postfix/cleanup[2767]: C122C8604E0: message-id=
>>>Aug 1 13:25:01 list postfix/qmgr[2499]: C122C8604E0: from=, size=625,
>nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>>>Aug 1 13:25:02 list postfix/local[2769]: C122C8604E0: to=, orig_to=,
>relay=local, delay=0.51, delays=0.25/0.05/0/0.21, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent
>>(delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman)
>>>Aug 1 13:25:02 list postfix/qmgr[2499]: C122C8604E0: removed
>>
>> Which looks like a successful delivery to me. Is Mailman running? Is
>> this message in qfiles/in? What happened to it?
>
>No there are no mailman aliases in the /etc/aliases file.  Mutt should be using the local postfix server to send the message.  I checked /etc/Muttrc and there is no setting for smtp.


And mutt is delivering to Postfix and Postfix is successfully
delivering to Mailman per the above.


>Mailman is running.  Logging in as root and doing:
>
># su mailman /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test
>
>This account is currently not available.
>
>
>
># sudo -u mailman /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test
>
>The system just sits there and does nothing.


It's reading your message from stdin which is your terminal. So no
group mismatch.


>There is only 1 account
>signed up for the mail list so it should take 10 minutes to do something. 
>It has been 10 minutes since I pressed enter and nothing has happened.  I waited 30 minutes and pressed Ctrl-C.  This is what I saw:Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/post", line 69, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/post", line 62, in main
>    inq.enqueue(sys.stdin.read(),
>KeyboardInterrupt
>
>
>How am I supposed to post to the maillist if I can't do it from root or a user
>account.  I can't login into the system as mailman:


You are successfully posting to Mailman from mutt. You could also
successfully post from the command line via

sudo -u mailman /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test < file

where file contains your email message with headers and body, or by
doing what you did and then typing the headers and body of the message
followed by control-D.

I'm not saying you don't have a delivery problem somewhere, but it is
not a group mismatch and it is not a Postfix issue. it is somewhere
beyond that. The message you posted with mutt got to Mailman's 'in'
queue. You need to start looking for what happened after that. Read
the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.




>The following is everything from the /var/log/maillog since I turn the PC on
>this morning:
>
>Aug  3 08:24:18 list postfix/postfix-script: starting the Postfix mail
>system
>Aug  3 08:24:18 list postfix/master[2468]: daemon started -- version
>2.3.3, configuration /etc/postfix
>Aug  3 08:25:02 list postfix/pickup[2472]: 38DFD8604E0: uid=41
>from=
>Aug  3 08:25:02 list postfix/cleanup[2711]: 38DFD8604E0:
>message-id=
>Aug  3 08:25:02 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: 38DFD8604E0:
>from=,
>size=625, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>Aug  3 08:25:02 list postfix/local[2713]: 38DFD8604E0:
>to=,
>orig_to=, relay=local, delay=0.56, delays=0.28/0.05/0/0.23,
>dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
>post mailman)


Above is a successful delivery of a post to the 'mailman' list.


>Aug  3 08:25:02 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: 38DFD8604E0: removed
>Aug  3 08:25:03 list postfix/smtpd[2715]: connect from
>>localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
>>Aug  3 08:25:03 list postfix/smtpd[2715]: BEB718604DD:
>>client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
>>Aug  3 08:25:03 list postfix/cleanup[2711]: BEB718604DD:
>>message-id=
>>Aug  3 08:25:03 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: BEB718604DD:
>>from=, size=1952, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>>Aug  3 08:25:03 list postfix/smtpd[2715]: disconnect from
>localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
>Aug  3 08:25:03 list postfix/local[2713]: BEB718604DD:
>to=,
>relay=local, delay=0.09, delays=0.01/0/0/0.07, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent
>(delivered to maildir)


And this looks like a successful delivery of some kind of response from
Mailman. What was in this message?

[followed by repeats of the same scenario]

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug  3 16:55:04 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 07:55:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and group mismatch error
In-Reply-To: <BAY118-W3AE2E2DD29612710448A3DB0F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC192200908030755040765cbdcc801@msapiro>

Greg White wrote:
>
>#cat /var/log/mailman/smtp
>Aug 03 08:25:03 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.101 seconds
>Aug 03 08:30:02 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.040 seconds
>Aug 03 08:35:02 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.040 seconds
>Aug 03 08:40:05 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.039 seconds
>Aug 03 08:45:04 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.042 seconds
>Aug 03 08:50:04 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.041 seconds
>Aug 03 08:55:04 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.040 seconds
>Aug 03 09:00:04 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.041 seconds
>Aug 03 09:00:04 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.052 seconds
>Aug 03 09:05:03 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.041 seconds
>Aug 03 09:10:03 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.041 seconds
>Aug 03 09:15:04 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.041 seconds
>Aug 03 09:20:04 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.041 seconds
>Aug 03 09:25:04 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.042 seconds


Mailman is delivering mail to Postfix and from your previously posted
Postfix log, Postfix is delivering it to someone's maildir, e.g.
(corresponding to the second message above)

Aug  3 08:30:02 list postfix/smtpd[2727]: connect from
localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
Aug  3 08:30:02 list postfix/smtpd[2727]: DCB7F8604DD:
client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
Aug  3 08:30:02 list postfix/cleanup[2723]: DCB7F8604DD:
message-id=
Aug  3 08:30:02 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: DCB7F8604DD:
from=, size=1952, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Aug  3 08:30:02 list postfix/smtpd[2727]: disconnect from
localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
Aug  3 08:30:02 list postfix/local[2725]: DCB7F8604DD:
to=,
relay=local, delay=0.02, delays=0.01/0.01/0/0, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent
(delivered to maildir)
Aug  3 08:30:02 list postfix/qmgr[2473]: DCB7F8604DD: removed


Perhaps you should try to find this mail. Since you've elided all the
message-id's, I can't tell if this is a delivered post or a notice
about a held message. I'm confused about that because you say there's
no vette log which indicates the post wasn't held, but if it was
delivered, there should be a post log entry, and you say there's no
post log either.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug  3 18:01:56 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 09:01:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and group mismatch error
In-Reply-To: <BAY118-W10D5CA769B2FFA97738DDDDB0F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC192200908030901560265fe3337c1@msapiro>

Greg White wrote:
>
>Since the mailman account on a centos and redhat system is setup as nologin how else would you send a post?


Via SMTP to the incoming MTA.


>I tried to post a message to the list.  I started mutt, pressed m, to: test at xyz.com, subject test, wrote this is a test :wq, pressed y to send.


And it worked. Your message was delivered to Mailman.


>If the mailman user can't login can I post to the list?


The Mailman user doesn't ever need to log in. The MTA pipes the post to
the wrapper which invokes the proper script to queue it for Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Mon Aug  3 19:42:48 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 18:42:48 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and group mismatch error
In-Reply-To: <PC192200908030755040765cbdcc801@msapiro>
References: <BAY118-W3AE2E2DD29612710448A3DB0F0@phx.gbl>
	<PC192200908030755040765cbdcc801@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20090803174248.GJ30597@amyl.org.uk>

On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 07:55:04AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Greg White wrote:
> >
> >#cat /var/log/mailman/smtp
> >Aug 03 08:25:03 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.101 seconds

[...]

> Perhaps you should try to find this mail. Since you've elided all the
> message-id's, I can't tell if this is a delivered post or a notice
> about a held message. I'm confused about that because you say there's
> no vette log which indicates the post wasn't held, but if it was
> delivered, there should be a post log entry, and you say there's no
> post log either.

[ I don't think i've seen this in the mail-exchanges so far ]

It may be useful to check the list-members of the 'mailman' list, too.
(either via list_members, or the web-interface)

Is the recipient of the list what you expect it to be?

(I'm by no means a Postfix fan)

-- 
``Jim Hacker: What appalling cynicism.''
``Sir Humphrey: We call it diplomacy, Minister.''

From cwieland at uci.edu  Mon Aug  3 20:06:46 2009
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 11:06:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] monthly password reminders
Message-ID: <9E906592-DE4B-459F-9813-CDB4BCB21024@uci.edu>

I run a server with a few hundred lists. When the monthly password  
reminders are sent they are sent from mailman-owner and so the  
bounces come back to the main mailman-bounces address. Is there a way  
to have them come from the list so they are returned to the  
individual list owners?

Con Wieland
University of California at Irvine

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug  3 21:16:44 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:16:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and group mismatch error
In-Reply-To: <20090803174248.GJ30597@amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <PC192200908031216440078da7908fa@msapiro>

Adam McGreggor wrote:

>On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 07:55:04AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Greg White wrote:
>> >
>> >#cat /var/log/mailman/smtp
>> >Aug 03 08:25:03 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.101 seconds
>
>[...]
>
>> Perhaps you should try to find this mail. Since you've elided all the
>> message-id's, I can't tell if this is a delivered post or a notice
>> about a held message. I'm confused about that because you say there's
>> no vette log which indicates the post wasn't held, but if it was
>> delivered, there should be a post log entry, and you say there's no
>> post log either.
>
>[ I don't think i've seen this in the mail-exchanges so far ]


>From the post I quote above archived at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-August/066667.html>

<quote>
8)
#cat /var/log/mailman/smtp
Aug 03 08:25:03 2009 (2622)  smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in
0.101 seconds
<snip>
 
#cat /var/log/mailman/qrunner
Aug 03 08:24:27 2009 (2617) ArchRunner qrunner started.
<snip>

The rest were empty or didn't exist.
</quote>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug  3 21:34:44 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:34:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] monthly password reminders
In-Reply-To: <9E906592-DE4B-459F-9813-CDB4BCB21024@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1922009080312344403759d3ce763@msapiro>

Con Wieland wrote:

>I run a server with a few hundred lists. When the monthly password  
>reminders are sent they are sent from mailman-owner and so the  
>bounces come back to the main mailman-bounces address. Is there a way  
>to have them come from the list so they are returned to the  
>individual list owners?


Since the reminders may be for multiple list subscriptions, they can't
come from a single list other than the site list. The alternative
would be to send an individual reminder for each subscription. I think
this would be too burdensome for people subscribed to multiple lists.

Note that bounces of password reminders should be rare unless you never
deal with them. Normally they will only occur under one of three
scenarios

1) the member has set delivery off and forgotten about the list and
then the member's address died.

2) the list is dormant.

3) the list doesn't do bounce processing or doesn't have effective
settings for bounce processing.

Under all other circumstances, normal bounce processing will remove the
member.

I recognize that dealing with these can be a burden for site admins,
especially on first upgrading from pre 2.1.11 where these bounces were
never seen and there can be a lot of them, but once they are dealt
with, the ongoing occurrence should be minor.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kremels at kreme.com  Tue Aug  4 00:34:37 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 16:34:37 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] monthly password reminders
In-Reply-To: <9E906592-DE4B-459F-9813-CDB4BCB21024@uci.edu>
References: <9E906592-DE4B-459F-9813-CDB4BCB21024@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <4BDF4DBB-8ADD-4926-8345-B914B0C6F139@kreme.com>

On 3-Aug-2009, at 12:06, Con Wieland wrote:
> I run a server with a few hundred lists. When the monthly password  
> reminders are sent they are sent from mailman-owner and so the  
> bounces come back to the main mailman-bounces address. Is there a  
> way to have them come from the list so they are returned to the  
> individual list owners?

No, because reminders are sent from mailman, not from each list.

If subscribe to several lists at one domain (one mailman install, to  
be perfectly accurate), I only get one reminder message.

I think you can have your list-owners be subscribe to the mailman list  
though.

-- 
My little brother got his arm stuck in the microwave. So my mom had
	to take him to the hospital. My grandma dropped acid this
	morning, and she freaked out. She hijacked a busload of
	penguins. So it's sort of a family crisis. Bye!


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug  4 01:06:42 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 16:06:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] monthly password reminders
In-Reply-To: <4BDF4DBB-8ADD-4926-8345-B914B0C6F139@kreme.com>
Message-ID: <PC1922009080316064204531e87adef@msapiro>

LuKreme wrote:

>
>I think you can have your list-owners be subscribe to the mailman list  
>though.


In the case of password reminder bounces, that won't help because
Password reminders come from the site list and bounces of messages
from the site list are not sent to the list just as ordinary list
bounces are not sent to the list. In the case of the site list
however, there is no automated bounce processing. Site list bounces
are sent to the addresses listed as 'owner' of the site list.

See the comments in the _dispose() method in
Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py for some information as to why this is
done.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Luke.Daly at newcastle.edu.au  Tue Aug  4 03:44:35 2009
From: Luke.Daly at newcastle.edu.au (Luke Daly)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 11:44:35 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] anyone at domain able to post
Message-ID: <4A781F23.2D70.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au>

Hi Guys

We have a list that has our network administrators on it. What we want as anything from a particular domain to get directed to the list members. Basically were not sure of an exact address but we know it will come from a particular domain. We don't want to open it up to everyone, only people from the designated domain.

Thanks in advance for your help 

Regards


Luke Daly
Systems Officer
IT Infrastructure
Newcastle University
17000
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you are not an authorised recipient of this e-mail, please reply to the sender of this e-mail indicating that you are not the intended recipient. In this case, you should not print, re-transmit to another party, store or act in reliance on this e-mail or any attachments, and should destroy all copies of them. This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may contain legally privileged information and/or copyright material of the sender or third parties. You should only re-transmit, distribute or commercialise the material if you are authorised to do so.
 

 



From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Tue Aug  4 12:11:04 2009
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:11:04 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange Wiki entry for Postfix Tuning
Message-ID: <20090804101104.GC16421@mail.incertum.net>

Hello,

I've discovered that the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/rIA9
mentions to set smtp_mx_session_limit=100. While normally, I would
reject such a suggestion as outright wrong, I noticed that this were
comments made by Barry Knowles, and you don't just ignore hints from
someone with that much experience in mailing lists.

So, what is the reason for that setting? From man 5 postconf:

,----[ man 5 postconf | less +/^smtp_mx_session_limit ]
| smtp_mx_session_limit (default: 2)
|
|     The maximal number of SMTP sessions per delivery request before
|     giving up or delivering to a fall-back relay host, or zero (no
|     limit). This restriction ignores sessions that fail to complete
|     the SMTP initial handshake (Postfix version 2.2 and earlier) or
|     that fail to complete the EHLO and TLS handshake (Postfix version
|     2.3 and later).
|
|     This feature is available in Postfix 2.1 and later.
`----

While I can certainly imagine larger sites having somewhere between
five to ten MXs, 100 seems a bit... oversized.

Any hints/insights are really appreciated.


Cheers
Stefan

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Tue Aug  4 12:51:29 2009
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:51:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange Wiki entry for Postfix Tuning
In-Reply-To: <20090804101104.GC16421@mail.incertum.net>
References: <20090804101104.GC16421@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <20090804105129.GE23901@charite.de>

* Stefan F?rster <cite+mailman-users at incertum.net>:
> Hello,
> 
> I've discovered that the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/rIA9
> mentions to set smtp_mx_session_limit=100. While normally, I would
> reject such a suggestion as outright wrong, I noticed that this were
> comments made by Barry Knowles, and you don't just ignore hints from
> someone with that much experience in mailing lists.

Bary Warsaw or Brad Knowles. According to my knowledge they haven't
married. I might be wrong though.

It's brad in our case :)

> So, what is the reason for that setting? From man 5 postconf:
> 
> ,----[ man 5 postconf | less +/^smtp_mx_session_limit ]
> | smtp_mx_session_limit (default: 2)
> |
> |     The maximal number of SMTP sessions per delivery request before
> |     giving up or delivering to a fall-back relay host, or zero (no
> |     limit). This restriction ignores sessions that fail to complete
> |     the SMTP initial handshake (Postfix version 2.2 and earlier) or
> |     that fail to complete the EHLO and TLS handshake (Postfix version
> |     2.3 and later).
> |
> |     This feature is available in Postfix 2.1 and later.
> `----
> 
> While I can certainly imagine larger sites having somewhere between
> five to ten MXs, 100 seems a bit... oversized.

maybe it tries to set a very hight threshold, thus ALWAYS using ALL
MXes?

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Tue Aug  4 13:41:01 2009
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:41:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange Wiki entry for Postfix Tuning
In-Reply-To: <20090804105129.GE23901@charite.de>
References: <20090804101104.GC16421@mail.incertum.net>
	<20090804105129.GE23901@charite.de>
Message-ID: <20090804114101.GE16421@mail.incertum.net>

* Ralf Hildebrandt <Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de>:
> Bary Warsaw or Brad Knowles. According to my knowledge they haven't
> married. I might be wrong though.

Barry, Brad, I apologize. No offense intended. Lack of coffee.


Cheers
Stefan

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Tue Aug  4 13:43:36 2009
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:43:36 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange Wiki entry for Postfix Tuning
In-Reply-To: <20090804114101.GE16421@mail.incertum.net>
References: <20090804101104.GC16421@mail.incertum.net>
	<20090804105129.GE23901@charite.de>
	<20090804114101.GE16421@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <20090804114336.GY23901@charite.de>

* Stefan F?rster <cite+mailman-users at incertum.net>:
> * Ralf Hildebrandt <Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de>:
> > Bary Warsaw or Brad Knowles. According to my knowledge they haven't
> > married. I might be wrong though.
> 
> Barry, Brad, I apologize. No offense intended. Lack of coffee.

Same here. I apologize for the cheesy joke.


-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From barry at python.org  Tue Aug  4 16:13:11 2009
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:13:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange Wiki entry for Postfix Tuning
In-Reply-To: <20090804114336.GY23901@charite.de>
References: <20090804101104.GC16421@mail.incertum.net>
	<20090804105129.GE23901@charite.de>
	<20090804114101.GE16421@mail.incertum.net>
	<20090804114336.GY23901@charite.de>
Message-ID: <4F520F2B-AD07-4CC2-962D-ADC821510CE1@python.org>

On Aug 4, 2009, at 7:43 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:

> * Stefan F?rster <cite+mailman-users at incertum.net>:
>> * Ralf Hildebrandt <Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de>:
>>> Bary Warsaw or Brad Knowles. According to my knowledge they haven't
>>> married. I might be wrong though.
>>
>> Barry, Brad, I apologize. No offense intended. Lack of coffee.
>
> Same here. I apologize for the cheesy joke.

It's okay, I'm lactose intolerant.

-Barry


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Tue Aug  4 17:47:03 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 16:47:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] anyone at domain able to post
In-Reply-To: <4A781F23.2D70.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au>
References: <4A781F23.2D70.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <20090804154703.GZ30597@amyl.org.uk>

On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 11:44:35AM +1000, Luke Daly wrote:
> Hi Guys
> 
> We have a list that has our network administrators on it. What we
> want as anything from a particular domain to get directed to the list
> members. 
>
> Basically were not sure of an exact address but we know it
> will come from a particular domain. We don't want to open it up to
> everyone, only people from the designated domain.

Looks like what you want is a regexp value/clause as 'allowed senders' or
'accept posts from non-listmembers' (off the top of my head), assuming
that you discard/reject posts from non-senders, anyhow.

The thread starting at
    <http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg51928.html>
probably explains things adequately, I'd suggest.


-- 
``Mr. Mandelson said it was an historic day when the politicians
  took charge of their own affairs.'' (sic.) (News report)

From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Aug  4 20:26:50 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:26:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate Messages
Message-ID: <auto-000113000301@mailfront2.g2host.com>

I have a problem, and don't know if there is an easy or viable 
solution.  I run a bunch of lists for an organization, over 150 
lists, about 80 percent public and 20 percent private.  Periodically 
there are messages that need to go to everyone, or almost 
everyone.  However, people belong to multiple lists so many people 
get duplicate copies of the same message.

Is there any way to send to everyone, or sub-sets of everyone?  Is it 
possible to subscribe everybody to an announce-only list, at the same 
time they subscribe to their chosen list or lists?  Not sure I want 
that approach, but an option if possible.


Dave


From b19141 at anl.gov  Tue Aug  4 21:08:03 2009
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue,  4 Aug 2009 14:08:03 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate Messages
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'David Andrews <dandrews@visi.com>'
	dated: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:26:50 -0500
Message-ID: <20090804190803.9B752175A2@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:

>I have a problem, and don't know if there is an easy or viable 
>solution.  I run a bunch of lists for an organization, over 150 
>lists, about 80 percent public and 20 percent private.  Periodically 
>there are messages that need to go to everyone, or almost 
>everyone.  However, people belong to multiple lists so many people 
>get duplicate copies of the same message.
>
>Is there any way to send to everyone, or sub-sets of everyone?  Is it 
>possible to subscribe everybody to an announce-only list, at the same 
>time they subscribe to their chosen list or lists?  Not sure I want 
>that approach, but an option if possible.

If I had to do this, I would do the following:

1) Create a new Mailman list - all-subscribers.

2) Make a list of all subscribers to all lists.  I already have
   a shell script (with awk files) that produces a list every hour
   that contains lines:

         Tue Aug  4 13:00:01 CDT 2009
         ----------
         list1 user1 at example.com
         list1 user2 at example.com
         ----------
         list2 user1 at example.com
         list2 user3 at example.com
         ----------

   I use this file to see if a given address is subscribed to any
   lists.

3) Extract the e-mail addresses from that list, pipe through "uniq",
   and save the file.  You could do special processing to remove
   certain addresses from this file.

4) Use that file to

        ./sync_members -w=no -g=no -d=no -a=no -f  FILENAME all-subscribers

   to synchronize (silently) the membership of the all-subscribers list,
   which contains all the members of all the lists.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From kremels at kreme.com  Wed Aug  5 06:43:03 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 22:43:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange Wiki entry for Postfix Tuning
In-Reply-To: <4F520F2B-AD07-4CC2-962D-ADC821510CE1@python.org>
References: <20090804101104.GC16421@mail.incertum.net>
	<20090804105129.GE23901@charite.de>
	<20090804114101.GE16421@mail.incertum.net>
	<20090804114336.GY23901@charite.de>
	<4F520F2B-AD07-4CC2-962D-ADC821510CE1@python.org>
Message-ID: <D2D14D48-A650-4BDD-9FBE-EB74B52E63F6@kreme.com>

On Aug 4, 2009, at 8:13, Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:

> It's okay, I'm lactose intolerant.


But the original question is still, I think, unanswered.

-- 
Sent from my iPhone

From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Wed Aug  5 12:23:46 2009
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:23:46 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange Wiki entry for Postfix Tuning
In-Reply-To: <20090804105129.GE23901@charite.de>
References: <20090804101104.GC16421@mail.incertum.net>
	<20090804105129.GE23901@charite.de>
Message-ID: <20090805102345.GM16421@mail.incertum.net>

* Ralf Hildebrandt <Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de>:
> * Stefan F?rster <cite+mailman-users at incertum.net>:
> > | smtp_mx_session_limit (default: 2)
> > 
> > While I can certainly imagine larger sites having somewhere between
> > five to ten MXs, 100 seems a bit... oversized.
> 
> maybe it tries to set a very hight threshold, thus ALWAYS using ALL
> MXes?

You don't have an infinite amount of smtp(8) delivery agents, and you
don't want to keep them all busy trying the 14th MX of a destination
which is most probably dead.

What you actually want to do is ensure that you try at least

floor($num_mx / 2) + 1

different hosts (hello, greylisting!). Mailman can help you in solving
this:

list_lists | awk '(NR > 1){print $1}' | \
    while read list; do
        list_members $list
   done | cut -d@ -f2 | sort -u  > /tmp/domains

num_mx=0; while read domain; do
    num_tmp=$(dig $domain mx +short | wc -l)
    if [ $num_tmp -gt $num_mx ]; then
        num_mx=$num_tmp
    fi
done < /tmp/domains
echo "Maximum number of MX entries: $num_mx"
echo "smtp_mx_session_limit should be: $((num_mx/2+1))"

In my case, this script returns "7", so smtp_mx_session_limit should
be "4". The problem with this script is, however, that it relies on
"list_lists" and "list_members" being available to a user with shell
access.

I'm running a Debian package of Mailman and I know that it is
modified, I just don't know to which extent. Perhaps someone with more
knowledge could comment on the availability of those two helper
commands in a standard Mailman installation? Perhaps they must be
executed as the Mailman user, or with some special environment.


Cheers
Stefan

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Wed Aug  5 13:28:25 2009
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:28:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange Wiki entry for Postfix Tuning
In-Reply-To: <20090805102345.GM16421@mail.incertum.net>
References: <20090804101104.GC16421@mail.incertum.net>
	<20090804105129.GE23901@charite.de>
	<20090805102345.GM16421@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <20090805112825.GS15474@charite.de>

* Stefan F?rster <cite+mailman-users at incertum.net>:

> In my case, this script returns "7", so smtp_mx_session_limit should
> be "4". The problem with this script is, however, that it relies on
> "list_lists" and "list_members" being available to a user with shell
> access.

on python.org it returns 18 and 10

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug  5 16:59:44 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 07:59:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Fwd: confirm
	c0003074d812bbe0fa6cf95465cf94cbd247fe60]
In-Reply-To: <4A794517.5080505@igroup.de>
Message-ID: <PC19220090805075944067180ab3d4b@msapiro>

Oliver Glueck wrote:
>
>I get this Email (see below) with the notice that I have
>to confirm my membership because mails couldnot delivered to
>my mailbox.
>BUT: my mailbox is ok! Some other users (not all!) on the mailing list
>info get the same notice from mailman, but all mailboxes are ok
>and I cant find any errors on the mailserver. (Any emails
>to a list or to a user will be delivered. Suddenly some emails
>not. All mailing lists are ok. Before this confirmation email
>and after this, I get emails through the list info.)
>
>What is the problem?


Your delivery has been disabled by bounce processing. Mailman has
received bounces of mail sent from this list to your address on
bounce_score_threshold days with no bounces separated by more than
bounce_info_stale_after days. You are then sent this message a total
of bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings times at intervals of
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval days, and if you don't
respond or otherwise reenable your list delivery, you will then be
removed from the list.
	
If bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is Yes, the list owner was sent a
notice including the triggering bounce message when your delivery was
disabled.
	
Check Mailman's bounce log for more information. Also check Mailman's
smtp-failure log.

If you are receiving list mail after receiving this notice, someone
re-enabled your delivery.	
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cgregory at hwcn.org  Wed Aug  5 19:11:27 2009
From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:11:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] STUPID USERS
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908051254570.18795@barton.hwcn.org>


Once before, I asked about possible solutions to problems that occur 
when people misread and/or 'reply' to mailman 'administrative' emails.
I would like to cut-n-paste a latest mailing from a list subscriber
to emphasize the problem.

I'm not asking for an 'explanation', but I *am* asking that developers of 
mailman look through the email and SEE the 'chain of logic' that has a 
user sending requests to manage their 'bird list' subscription via the 
"last address used to send them mail about it." then eventually asking me 
to help them because they missed the critical piece of info that they need 
to do their commands on a 'per list' basis.

I'm complaining that my time is WASTED over and over by these ignorant 
mistakes. Is there NO way to get a reminder notice to come FROM the 
list/list-owner, even given the obvious issue with possible multiple 
lists? I know how mailman works, but these people DON'T. Could there at
least be an 'overview' function that recognizes mail sent to 
'mailman-request' and gives them a list of commands to manage each list?

For your amusement, and to emphasize my point, here is the message
I received as mailman-owner, because user SENT their mail to 
'mailman-bounces'..... (go fig)

>From mailman-bounces at hwcn.org Wed Aug  5 09:32:50 2009
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:32:49 -0400
From: mailman-bounces at hwcn.org
To: mailman-owner at hwcn.org
Subject: Uncaught bounce notification

The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce
format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted
from it.  This mailing list has been configured to send all
unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s).

For more information see:
http://king.hwcn.org/mailman/admin/mailman/bounce

     [ Part 2: "Included Message" ]

Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 09:35:39 -0400
From: Helen <________ at bmts.com>
To: mailman-bounces at hwcn.org
Subject: Re: The results of your email commands

Could this information possibly be provided in a way that it can be 
understood ?  I would like my subscription to stop on August 09 2009 and 
resume on September 10 2009.My address is _____ at bmts.com password ____. 
Thank you H.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <mailman-bounces at hwcn.org>
To: <______ at bmts.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 10:22 PM
Subject: The results of your email commands


> The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your
> original message.
>
> - Results:
>    Ignoring non-text/plain MIME parts
>    help
>    Help for Mailman mailing list:
>
> This is email command help for version 2.1.5 of the "Mailman"
> list manager.  The following describes commands you can send to get
> information about and control your subscription to Mailman lists at
> this site.  A command can be in the subject line or in the body of the
> message.
>
> Note that much of the following can also be accomplished via the World
> Wide Web, at:
>
>    http://king.hwcn.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman
>
> In particular, you can use the Web site to have your password sent to
> your delivery address.
>
> List specific commands (subscribe, who, etc) should be sent to the
> *-request address for the particular list, e.g. for the 'mailman'
> list, use 'mailman-request at ...'.
>
> About the descriptions - words in "<>"s signify REQUIRED items and
> words in "[]" denote OPTIONAL items.  Do not include the "<>"s or
> "[]"s when you use the commands.
>
> The following commands are valid:
>
>
>    confirm <confirmation-string>
>        Confirm an action.  The confirmation-string is required and should 
> be
>        supplied by a mailback confirmation notice.
>
>    end
>        Stop processing commands.  Use this if your mail program 
> automatically
>        adds a signature file.
>
>    help
>        Print this help message.
>
>    info
>        Get information about this mailing list.
>
>    lists
>        See a list of the public mailing lists on this GNU Mailman server.
>
>    password [<oldpassword> <newpassword>] [address=<address>]
>        Retrieve or change your password.  With no arguments, this returns
>        your current password.  With arguments <oldpassword> and 
> <newpassword>
>        you can change your password.
>
>        If you're posting from an address other than your membership 
> address,
>        specify your membership address with `address=<address>' (no 
> brackets
>        around the email address, and no quotes!).  Note that in this case 
> the
>        response is always sent to the subscribed address.
>
>    set ...
>        Set or view your membership options.
>
>        Use `set help' (without the quotes) to get a more detailed list of 
> the
>        options you can change.
>
>        Use `set show' (without the quotes) to view your current option
>        settings.
>
>    subscribe [password] [digest|nodigest] [address=<address>]
>        Subscribe to this mailing list.  Your password must be given to
>        unsubscribe or change your options, but if you omit the password, 
> one
>        will be generated for you.  You may be periodically reminded of 
> your
>        password.
>
>        The next argument may be either: `nodigest' or `digest' (no 
> quotes!).
>        If you wish to subscribe an address other than the address you sent
>        this request from, you may specify `address=<address>' (no brackets
>        around the email address, and no quotes!)
>
>    unsubscribe [password] [address=<address>]
>        Unsubscribe from the mailing list.  If given, your password must 
> match
>        your current password.  If omitted, a confirmation email will be 
> sent
>        to the unsubscribing address. If you wish to unsubscribe an address
>        other than the address you sent this request from, you may specify
>        `address=<address>' (no brackets around the email address, and no
>        quotes!)
>
>    who password
>        See everyone who is on this mailing list.  The roster is limited to
>        list administrators and moderators only; you must supply the list
>        admin or moderator password to retrieve the roster.
>
>
> Commands should be sent to mailman-request at hwcn.org
>
> Questions and concerns for the attention of a person should be sent to
>
>    mailman-owner at hwcn.org
>
>    help
>    Help for Mailman mailing list:
>
> This is email command help for version 2.1.5 of the "Mailman"
> list manager.  The following describes commands you can send to get
> information about and control your subscription to Mailman lists at
> this site.  A command can be in the subject line or in the body of the
> message.
>
> Note that much of the following can also be accomplished via the World
> Wide Web, at:
>
>    http://king.hwcn.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman
>
> In particular, you can use the Web site to have your password sent to
> your delivery address.
>
> List specific commands (subscribe, who, etc) should be sent to the
> *-request address for the particular list, e.g. for the 'mailman'
> list, use 'mailman-request at ...'.
>
> About the descriptions - words in "<>"s signify REQUIRED items and
> words in "[]" denote OPTIONAL items.  Do not include the "<>"s or
> "[]"s when you use the commands.
>
> The following commands are valid:
>
>
>    confirm <confirmation-string>
>        Confirm an action.  The confirmation-string is required and should 
> be
>        supplied by a mailback confirmation notice.
>
>    end
>        Stop processing commands.  Use this if your mail program 
> automatically
>        adds a signature file.
>
>    help
>        Print this help message.
>
>    info
>        Get information about this mailing list.
>
>    lists
>        See a list of the public mailing lists on this GNU Mailman server.
>
>    password [<oldpassword> <newpassword>] [address=<address>]
>        Retrieve or change your password.  With no arguments, this returns
>        your current password.  With arguments <oldpassword> and 
> <newpassword>
>        you can change your password.
>
>        If you're posting from an address other than your membership 
> address,
>        specify your membership address with `address=<address>' (no 
> brackets
>        around the email address, and no quotes!).  Note that in this case 
> the
>        response is always sent to the subscribed address.
>
>    set ...
>        Set or view your membership options.
>
>        Use `set help' (without the quotes) to get a more detailed list of 
> the
>        options you can change.
>
>        Use `set show' (without the quotes) to view your current option
>        settings.
>
>    subscribe [password] [digest|nodigest] [address=<address>]
>        Subscribe to this mailing list.  Your password must be given to
>        unsubscribe or change your options, but if you omit the password, 
> one
>        will be generated for you.  You may be periodically reminded of 
> your
>        password.
>
>        The next argument may be either: `nodigest' or `digest' (no 
> quotes!).
>        If you wish to subscribe an address other than the address you sent
>        this request from, you may specify `address=<address>' (no brackets
>        around the email address, and no quotes!)
>
>    unsubscribe [password] [address=<address>]
>        Unsubscribe from the mailing list.  If given, your password must 
> match
>        your current password.  If omitted, a confirmation email will be 
> sent
>        to the unsubscribing address. If you wish to unsubscribe an address
>        other than the address you sent this request from, you may specify
>        `address=<address>' (no brackets around the email address, and no
>        quotes!)
>
>    who password
>        See everyone who is on this mailing list.  The roster is limited to
>        list administrators and moderators only; you must supply the list
>        admin or moderator password to retrieve the roster.
>
>
> Commands should be sent to mailman-request at hwcn.org
>
> Questions and concerns for the attention of a person should be sent to
>
>    mailman-owner at hwcn.org
>
>
> - Done.
>
>

-- end quote--

=- Charles

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Wed Aug  5 19:21:33 2009
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 19:21:33 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Are there other users? Was: STUPID USERS
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908051254570.18795@barton.hwcn.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908051254570.18795@barton.hwcn.org>
Message-ID: <20090805172133.GE9236@charite.de>

* Charles Gregory <cgregory at hwcn.org>:

> For your amusement, and to emphasize my point, here is the message
> I received as mailman-owner, because user SENT their mail to
> 'mailman-bounces'..... (go fig)

I torture them with an appropriate autodiscard + autoreply

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From cgregory at hwcn.org  Wed Aug  5 19:54:09 2009
From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:54:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Are there other users? Was: STUPID USERS
In-Reply-To: <20090805172133.GE9236@charite.de>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908051254570.18795@barton.hwcn.org>
	<20090805172133.GE9236@charite.de>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908051351350.18795@barton.hwcn.org>

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
>> For your amusement, and to emphasize my point, here is the message
>> I received as mailman-owner, because user SENT their mail to
>> 'mailman-bounces'..... (go fig)
> I torture them with an appropriate autodiscard + autoreply

Well, my form letter has to be sent manually, but it was quite 
mind-boggling to see such a complex scenario that there wasn't the 
faintest chance of them interpreting the form letter correctly.
:)

- C

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug  5 20:36:46 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:36:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] STUPID USERS
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908051254570.18795@barton.hwcn.org>
Message-ID: <PC1922009080511364608599bb09909@msapiro>

Charles Gregory wrote:
>
>Is there NO way to get a reminder notice to come FROM the 
>list/list-owner, even given the obvious issue with possible multiple 
>lists?


It's a simple change. Just send one reminder per list.

But I for one for example receive a reminder every Mailman Day from
python.org covering 11 lists. I don't want to receive 11 separate
reminders.

Given that periodic password reminders are going away in Mailman 3
anyway, I don't see an urgent need to "fix" this.


>I know how mailman works, but these people DON'T. Could there at
>least be an 'overview' function that recognizes mail sent to 
>'mailman-request' and gives them a list of commands to manage each list?


If you look carefully at the message you received and quoted, you will
see that the user first sent two 'help' commands to
mailman-request at hwcn.org, and then replied to the response saying that
it couldn't be understood. Perhaps I lack imagination, but I don't
know what I'd put in "a list of commands to manage each list" that
wouldn't be essentially what's in the response to a 'help' command, so
I don't think that would help in this case.

I could change the response to a 'help' command to be From:
'list-owner' instead of 'list-bounces', and I think I will. I suspect
it's being From: list-bounces is an artifact from Mailman 2.0 when it
was From: list-admin. But, I don't see that helping in your example.
It would only remove the 'unrecognized bounce' packaging from the
message which would still go to you as owner.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pcguy11 at live.com  Wed Aug  5 21:51:12 2009
From: pcguy11 at live.com (Greg White)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:51:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and group mismatch error
In-Reply-To: <PC192200908030901560265fe3337c1@msapiro>
References: <BAY118-W10D5CA769B2FFA97738DDDDB0F0@phx.gbl>
	<PC192200908030901560265fe3337c1@msapiro> 
Message-ID: <BAY118-W4EB1DE8002967F5CCC602DB0D0@phx.gbl>



> Mark wrote:
>> Greg White wrote:
>>
>>Since the mailman account on a centos and redhat system is setup as nologin how else would you send a post?
>
>
> Via SMTP to the incoming MTA.
>
>
>>I tried to post a message to the list. I started mutt, pressed m, to: test at xyz.com, subject test, wrote this is a test :wq, pressed y to send.
>
>
> And it worked. Your message was delivered to Mailman.
>
>
>>If the mailman user can't login can I post to the list?
>
>
> The Mailman user doesn't ever need to log in. The MTA pipes the post to
> the wrapper which invokes the proper script to queue it for Mailman.

It appears that part of my problem is that I didn't understand how to properly send a message.  I have postfix only listening on the loopback interface.  It appears like I will have to change the config so it listens on the eth0 interface.  Then I have to setup user authentication on postfix.  Finally I have to open the smtp port on the firewall.  I was hoping that I could just use the local mutt to post a message.  Does this sound about right?

Thanks,

_________________________________________________________________
Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. 
http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_express:082009

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug  5 22:03:50 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:03:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and group mismatch error
In-Reply-To: <BAY118-W4EB1DE8002967F5CCC602DB0D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC192200908051303500968f77cde7a@msapiro>

Greg White wrote:
>
>It appears that part of my problem is that I didn't understand how to properly send a message.  I have postfix only listening on the loopback interface.  It appears like I will have to change the config so it listens on the eth0 interface.  Then I have to setup user authentication on postfix.  Finally I have to open the smtp port on the firewall.  I was hoping that I could just use the local mutt to post a message.  Does this sound about right?


No. This does not sound right. Your messages from Mutt are being
delivered to Mailman with your current setup. And Mailman's replies
are being accepted and delivered by Postfix.

As long as you don't care that non-local users will not be able to
subscribe or post or send commands to Mailman via email and you don't
care that external bounces can't be delivered back to Mailman, you
don't need an MTA listening on an external interface.

Even if you do want those things, you don't need user authentication.
User authentication is onnly needed if you want to relay mail from
non-local to non-local. It is not required to accept external mail on
port 25 and deliver it locally.

I am still concerned that you don't think you are successfully posting
to Mailman from your local Mutt. You are! Look in your maildir
directory and find the messages from Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cgregory at hwcn.org  Wed Aug  5 23:15:42 2009
From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 17:15:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] STUPID USERS
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009080511364608599bb09909@msapiro>
References: <PC1922009080511364608599bb09909@msapiro>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908051705050.18795@barton.hwcn.org>

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Is there NO way to get a reminder notice to come FROM the
>> list/list-owner, even given the obvious issue with possible multiple
>> lists?
> It's a simple change. Just send one reminder per list.

How can I set that? (mm 2.1.5)

> If you look carefully at the message you received and quoted, you will
> see that the user first sent two 'help' commands to
> mailman-request at hwcn.org, and then replied to the response saying that
> it couldn't be understood. Perhaps I lack imagination, but I don't
> know what I'd put in "a list of commands to manage each list" that
> wouldn't be essentially what's in the response to a 'help' command, so
> I don't think that would help in this case.

OMG. You are RIGHT. I just presumed it wasn't in there or 'clear' 
enough cuz otherwise they'd follow instructions, right? (shake head)
F'n stupid users..... Augh.

> I could change the response to a 'help' command to be From:
> 'list-owner' instead of 'list-bounces', and I think I will. I suspect
> it's being From: list-bounces is an artifact from Mailman 2.0 when it
> was From: list-admin. But, I don't see that helping in your example.
> It would only remove the 'unrecognized bounce' packaging from the
> message which would still go to you as owner.

(nod) Agreed. I just thought the 'bounce' added a layer of humor
to the situation. Though I think to be 'interesting', perhaps the 
'from:' for such automated replies could be "mailmanhelp", such that 
anyone stupid enough to 'just click reply' will trigger an 
autoresponder keyed to that address. One that sends a doubly clear 
"you have just done something stupid" notice. :)

- Charles

From cgregory at hwcn.org  Wed Aug  5 23:25:19 2009
From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 17:25:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] STUPID USERS
In-Reply-To: <8142fbe50908051255y43ada565k1c23c839c5b2d450@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908051254570.18795@barton.hwcn.org>
	<PC1922009080511364608599bb09909@msapiro>
	<8142fbe50908051255y43ada565k1c23c839c5b2d450@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908051716580.18795@barton.hwcn.org>

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, Robert Fishel wrote:
> I am subscribed to countless lists over 6 organizations that use
> mailman one of which I run, there is no way I would want to receive a
> reminder from each list, it's painful enough now for each
> organization.

(nod) Perhaps a dash of intelligence in the notice generator, such that if 
a person is only on one list, they get the mail 'from' their list owner, 
but from the previously suggested 'trap' address if on more than one list?
Cuz really, if you are on more than one list, you've woken up to the fact 
that you are managing multiple lists, and have to *think* about how to do 
that. This problem (should) only exists for users who think of our lists 
as being 'only' the one to which they have subscribed....

- Charles

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug  6 02:44:51 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 17:44:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] STUPID USERS
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908051705050.18795@barton.hwcn.org>
Message-ID: <PC192200908051744510453bf3fe7b8@msapiro>

Charles Gregory wrote:

>On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> Is there NO way to get a reminder notice to come FROM the
>>> list/list-owner, even given the obvious issue with possible multiple
>>> lists?
>> It's a simple change. Just send one reminder per list.
>
>How can I set that? (mm 2.1.5)


The attached mailpasswds.patch.txt file contains a patch to Mailman's
cron/mailpasswds that will send individual reminders from each list
the the list's members.

It should apply directly to mailman 2.1.5's mailpasswds with only
'fuzz' in the first hunk because of the @PYTHON@ vs. /path/to/python
difference, but the resultant patched file should be good.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug  6 06:17:54 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:17:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange Wiki entry for Postfix Tuning
In-Reply-To: <20090805102345.GM16421@mail.incertum.net>
References: <20090804101104.GC16421@mail.incertum.net>	<20090804105129.GE23901@charite.de>
	<20090805102345.GM16421@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <4A7A5972.80704@msapiro.net>

Stefan F?rster wrote:
>
> list_lists | awk '(NR > 1){print $1}' | \

or

list_lists --bare | \


> I'm running a Debian package of Mailman and I know that it is
> modified, I just don't know to which extent. Perhaps someone with more
> knowledge could comment on the availability of those two helper
> commands in a standard Mailman installation? Perhaps they must be
> executed as the Mailman user, or with some special environment.


In the standard source distribution, all the command line commands
including list_lists and list_members are available in Mailman's bin/
directory and run from there without any special environment.

They do need to be run directly or via sudo by root or some user in
Mailman's group.

Is it the case in Debian that any user on a shared system can run say
list_members on any list?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Thu Aug  6 15:41:26 2009
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 15:41:26 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange Wiki entry for Postfix Tuning
In-Reply-To: <4A7A5972.80704@msapiro.net>
References: <20090804101104.GC16421@mail.incertum.net>
	<20090804105129.GE23901@charite.de>
	<20090805102345.GM16421@mail.incertum.net>
	<4A7A5972.80704@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20090806134126.GD29154@mail.incertum.net>

* Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
> Stefan F?rster wrote:
> > list_lists | awk '(NR > 1){print $1}' | \
> 
> or
> 
> list_lists --bare | \

Thank you, tbh, I didn't read list_lists manpage.

> > I'm running a Debian package of Mailman and I know that it is
> > modified, I just don't know to which extent. Perhaps someone with more
> > knowledge could comment on the availability of those two helper
> > commands in a standard Mailman installation? Perhaps they must be
> > executed as the Mailman user, or with some special environment.
> 
> 
> In the standard source distribution, all the command line commands
> including list_lists and list_members are available in Mailman's bin/
> directory and run from there without any special environment.
> 
> They do need to be run directly or via sudo by root or some user in
> Mailman's group.

That makes sense. The Debian package takes care to create symlinks to
those binaries in /usr/sbin, but it's good to know where to find those
on non-Debian systems.

> Is it the case in Debian that any user on a shared system can run say
> list_members on any list?

Since Mailman's "bin" directory has 755 permissions on Debian, every
user can attempt to run these commands. Most directories (except
private archives) in /var/lib/mailman have world read/execute
permissions, but it seems that the actual data is owned by group
"list" and only readable by group/owner. So running either
"list_lists" or "list_members <listname>" result in a EPERM traceback.


Cheers
Stefan

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug  6 16:03:14 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:03:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange Wiki entry for Postfix Tuning
In-Reply-To: <20090806134126.GD29154@mail.incertum.net>
References: <20090804101104.GC16421@mail.incertum.net>
	<20090804105129.GE23901@charite.de>
	<20090805102345.GM16421@mail.incertum.net>
	<4A7A5972.80704@msapiro.net>
	<20090806134126.GD29154@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <4A7AE2A2.1060601@msapiro.net>

Stefan F?rster wrote:
> 
> Since Mailman's "bin" directory has 755 permissions on Debian, every
> user can attempt to run these commands. Most directories (except
> private archives) in /var/lib/mailman have world read/execute
> permissions, but it seems that the actual data is owned by group
> "list" and only readable by group/owner. So running either
> "list_lists" or "list_members <listname>" result in a EPERM traceback.


It's the same in the source install. The only difference appears to be
Debian's addition of symlinks in /usr/sbin/.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Thu Aug  6 20:34:36 2009
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:34:36 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved: password header!
Message-ID: <COL105-W3CCCD847A1AA49C5BCEC5FB0A0@phx.gbl>


Dear Mailman admins,

 

I have a suggestion for you .. I'm running 42 lists for my clients, I let them use microsoft outlook to send their newletters to their customers and I do the management part .. since someone hacked into one of my lists and started posting to it using the modertor's email address (I posted a message about this before) and you suggested the : 'Approved: Password' header and I seached all over to see how to add a custom header to the damn outlook in vain .. so every day  have to approve messages for my clients which is a real pain in the act!

 

my suggestion is, before I had the honor to use outlook I had Smartermail .. they have a cool feature of approving messages with passwords is to use it in the subject line itself : "[password: PASSWORD] Subject bla bla bla"..  then it removes the password part of course ..

 

why don't you guys do the same? it sure beats adding a custom header and stuff .. because in html messages it's really hard to do that !!

 

Thanks ..

 

 

_________________________________________________________________
With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/products/photo-gallery-edit.aspx

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Aug  6 21:49:28 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 14:49:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange Wiki entry for Postfix Tuning
In-Reply-To: <20090804101104.GC16421@mail.incertum.net>
References: <20090804101104.GC16421@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <4A7B33C8.5090300@shub-internet.org>

on 8/4/09 5:11 AM, Stefan F?rster said:

> So, what is the reason for that setting? From man 5 postconf:
> 
> ,----[ man 5 postconf | less +/^smtp_mx_session_limit ]
> | smtp_mx_session_limit (default: 2)
> |
> |     The maximal number of SMTP sessions per delivery request before
> |     giving up or delivering to a fall-back relay host, or zero (no
> |     limit). This restriction ignores sessions that fail to complete
> |     the SMTP initial handshake (Postfix version 2.2 and earlier) or
> |     that fail to complete the EHLO and TLS handshake (Postfix version
> |     2.3 and later).
> |
> |     This feature is available in Postfix 2.1 and later.
> `----
> 
> While I can certainly imagine larger sites having somewhere between
> five to ten MXs, 100 seems a bit... oversized.

The way I read this, it has nothing to do with the number of MXes you 
have.  It has to do with how many SMTP delivery sessions you'll attempt 
over the same connection before you drop the connection and re-connect 
(if you have more than this number of deliveries left), and that 
re-connection may well end up going to a different MX.

This helps avoid conditions where you get locked into a particular MX 
that is slow, and that slows down all your delivery to that site, for as 
long as you have mail for that site.


But I would expect Ralf to know the answer to this question better than 
I do -- after all, it has been a number of years since I wrote that, and 
at my age, the memory starts to go.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug  6 22:59:49 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:59:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved: password header!
In-Reply-To: <COL105-W3CCCD847A1AA49C5BCEC5FB0A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC192200908061359490140294eeb7d@msapiro>

Khalil Abbas wrote:
>
>my suggestion is, before I had the honor to use outlook I had Smartermail .. they have a cool feature of approving messages with passwords is to use it in the subject line itself : "[password: PASSWORD] Subject bla bla bla"..  then it removes the password part of course ..
>
> 
>
>why don't you guys do the same? it sure beats adding a custom header and stuff .. because in html messages it's really hard to do that !!


We do. Just not in the subject.

As long as the incoming message has a text/plain part (i.e. is either a
text/plain message or a multipart/alternative message with a
text/plain alternative, we recognize and delete "Approved: passord" if
it is the first non-blank line of the body. We also attempt to delete
the line from any other body parts in which it appears, but in
pathological cases, this may fail, so test first.

If your clients insist on posting HTML only messages and can't add an
actual Approved: header to the message, then you can try patching
Mailman/Handlers/Approve.py to recognize "[Approved: password]" in the
Subject: header. The attached Approve.patch.txt file contains a patch
that might do it.

I'll consider this as a feature for Mailman 2.2

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Aug  7 04:14:19 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 11:14:19 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved: password header!
In-Reply-To: <PC192200908061359490140294eeb7d@msapiro>
References: <COL105-W3CCCD847A1AA49C5BCEC5FB0A0@phx.gbl>
	<PC192200908061359490140294eeb7d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <877hxgbcas.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > If your clients insist on posting HTML only messages and can't add an
 > actual Approved: header to the message, then you can try patching
 > Mailman/Handlers/Approve.py to recognize "[Approved: password]" in the
 > Subject: header. The attached Approve.patch.txt file contains a patch
 > that might do it.
 > 
 > I'll consider this as a feature for Mailman 2.2

I think this is unwise.  The subject header is read by everybody, and
you can't just delete it, so you have to munge it.  More complexity.
It's not so hard to add an Approved pseudo-header.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Aug  7 04:29:22 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 21:29:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved: password header!
In-Reply-To: <877hxgbcas.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <COL105-W3CCCD847A1AA49C5BCEC5FB0A0@phx.gbl>	<PC192200908061359490140294eeb7d@msapiro>
	<877hxgbcas.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4A7B9182.9040007@shub-internet.org>

on 8/6/09 9:14 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull said:

>  > I'll consider this as a feature for Mailman 2.2
> 
> I think this is unwise.  The subject header is read by everybody, and
> you can't just delete it, so you have to munge it.  More complexity.
> It's not so hard to add an Approved pseudo-header.

Some people really, really don't know what their software can do, and 
can't be taught how to make use of advanced features.  Others may be 
able to learn how to use advanced features, but they are forced to use 
software that is locked down into a configuration that they can't change.


So, the question becomes this -- at what point do you stop bending over 
backwards to try to make seriously broken MUAs (or seriously un-savvy 
MUA users) be able to have some sort of minimal functionality, and at 
what point do you decide that it's too much work or opens too large of a 
security hole?

That's not a question I can answer.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug  7 06:08:24 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 21:08:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved: password header!
In-Reply-To: <4A7B9182.9040007@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <PC192200908062108240937294eee81@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>on 8/6/09 9:14 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull said:
>
>>  > I'll consider this as a feature for Mailman 2.2
>> 
>> I think this is unwise.  The subject header is read by everybody, and
>> you can't just delete it, so you have to munge it.  More complexity.
>> It's not so hard to add an Approved pseudo-header.
>
>Some people really, really don't know what their software can do, and 
>can't be taught how to make use of advanced features.  Others may be 
>able to learn how to use advanced features, but they are forced to use 
>software that is locked down into a configuration that they can't change.
>
>
>So, the question becomes this -- at what point do you stop bending over 
>backwards to try to make seriously broken MUAs (or seriously un-savvy 
>MUA users) be able to have some sort of minimal functionality, and at 
>what point do you decide that it's too much work or opens too large of a 
>security hole?
>
>That's not a question I can answer.


But it is a good question, and I'm not sure I know the answer either.

I know from experience with users, that it isn't always easy or obvious
how to get MS Outlook/Exchange to even send a multipart/alternative
message instead of just text/html. In that case, an Approved: pseudo
header won't be found because it is only looked for in the first
text/plain part of the message.

Even when it is found, it's removal from other 'fancy' parts of a
multipart/alternative part is on a 'best effort' basis and isn't
guaranteed.

And then there's the issue of corporate mail environments that wrap
messages in disclaimers possibly adding an initial text/plain part
preceding the part with the pseudo header, thus hiding it from our
search.

Thus, the idea of allowing "[Approved: password]" in the subject header
and removing only that text from the subject has appeal because it
doesn't depend on any characteristics of the message body.

The idea is to require the square brackets so a mere "approved:" in the
subject (such as this message) doesn't trigger a match. We only match
if we find "Approve:" or "Approved:" followed by a single "word"
inside the square brackets and then we remove the brackets and their
contents.

The patch which I attached to my earlier reply does this and also deals
with RFC2047 encoded subjects and encodes the result as utf-8 if and
only if it contains non-ascii.

I'm not completely comfortable with this approach, but neither am I
completely comfortable with the pseudo header in the body of a
multipart/alternative message. I always recommend a true Approved:
header for this purpose, but I've googled more than once trying to
find how to do this with Outlook, and I haven't found a straight
forward way to do it.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From 80.lakshmi at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 21:45:25 2009
From: 80.lakshmi at gmail.com (Lakshmi)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 01:15:25 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] erroneous unsubscriptions
Message-ID: <9b79d020908051245k1c0d627ava624b337ff1699d2@mail.gmail.com>

Hi
i am the owner of a mailing list. Recently people on the list were getting
unsubscribed mysteriously. I have even disabled the bounce process.
A few hours ago i received 30 unsubscription notifications. This is a
serious error.

Can someone please suggest how to fix this problem.

Thanks
Lakshmi

-- 
Accomplishment is Enjoyment. Enjoyment is Accomplishment...
http://www.romanceeternal.org

From bobfishel at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 21:55:19 2009
From: bobfishel at gmail.com (Robert Fishel)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 15:55:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] STUPID USERS
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009080511364608599bb09909@msapiro>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908051254570.18795@barton.hwcn.org> 
	<PC1922009080511364608599bb09909@msapiro>
Message-ID: <8142fbe50908051255y43ada565k1c23c839c5b2d450@mail.gmail.com>

I agree,

I am subscribed to countless lists over 6 organizations that use
mailman one of which I run, there is no way I would want to receive a
reminder from each list, it's painful enough now for each
organization.

-Bob

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Mark Sapiro<mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Charles Gregory wrote:
>>
>>Is there NO way to get a reminder notice to come FROM the
>>list/list-owner, even given the obvious issue with possible multiple
>>lists?
>
>
> It's a simple change. Just send one reminder per list.
>
> But I for one for example receive a reminder every Mailman Day from
> python.org covering 11 lists. I don't want to receive 11 separate
> reminders.
>
> Given that periodic password reminders are going away in Mailman 3
> anyway, I don't see an urgent need to "fix" this.
>
>
>>I know how mailman works, but these people DON'T. Could there at
>>least be an 'overview' function that recognizes mail sent to
>>'mailman-request' and gives them a list of commands to manage each list?
>
>
> If you look carefully at the message you received and quoted, you will
> see that the user first sent two 'help' commands to
> mailman-request at hwcn.org, and then replied to the response saying that
> it couldn't be understood. Perhaps I lack imagination, but I don't
> know what I'd put in "a list of commands to manage each list" that
> wouldn't be essentially what's in the response to a 'help' command, so
> I don't think that would help in this case.
>
> I could change the response to a 'help' command to be From:
> 'list-owner' instead of 'list-bounces', and I think I will. I suspect
> it's being From: list-bounces is an artifact from Mailman 2.0 when it
> was From: list-admin. But, I don't see that helping in your example.
> It would only remove the 'unrecognized bounce' packaging from the
> message which would still go to you as owner.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> ? ? ? ?The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California ? ?better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bobfishel%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>

From carloswill at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 17:54:44 2009
From: carloswill at gmail.com (Carlos Williams)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:54:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MailMan For LAN Only
Message-ID: <d80f793f0908050854i8f5f980ncb2e492f123d614@mail.gmail.com>

I am wanting to implement MailMan for my company LAN. I am currently
running my email server on Postfix. I am wondering if someone can
answer these questions for me. If I install MailMan / Apache on my
mail server, will the MailMan list be visible by anyone on the web who
can access my mail server via Apache? I am worried about spammers
using MailMan to harvest valid email addresses. Even though it appears
from the reading I have done that non-members can't send to the list
w/o moderator approval, I still don't want the vulnerability of
exposing my subscribed members email addresses. Can someone please
tell me if this is possible and or how I should consider configuring
MailMan for my LAN?

Thanks for any assistance!

--
Carlos

From glueck at igroup.de  Wed Aug  5 10:38:47 2009
From: glueck at igroup.de (Oliver Glueck)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:38:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Fwd: confirm
	c0003074d812bbe0fa6cf95465cf94cbd247fe60]
Message-ID: <4A794517.5080505@igroup.de>

Hi Mark and Co.,

I get this Email (see below) with the notice that I have
to confirm my membership because mails couldnot delivered to
my mailbox.
BUT: my mailbox is ok! Some other users (not all!) on the mailing list
info get the same notice from mailman, but all mailboxes are ok
and I cant find any errors on the mailserver. (Any emails
to a list or to a user will be delivered. Suddenly some emails
not. All mailing lists are ok. Before this confirmation email
and after this, I get emails through the list info.)

What is the problem?

Thanks
Oliver

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Betreff: 	confirm c0003074d812bbe0fa6cf95465cf94cbd247fe60
Datum: 	Tue, 04 Aug 2009 09:26:00 +0200
Von: 	info-request at blablabla.com
An: 	glueck at blablabla.com



Ihre Mitgliedschaft in der Mailingliste info wurde wegen wegen
wiederholter Unzustellbarkeit Die letzte Unzustellbarkeitsmeldung von
Ihnen kam am 04-Aug-2009 vor?bergehend deaktiviert.

Sie werden so lange keine Nachrichten dieser Liste mehr erhalten, bis
Sie Ihre Mitgliedschaft wieder aktivieren. 

Unser System sendet Ihnen noch 3 weitere Mitteilungen, danach wird
Ihre Mitgliedschaft hier komplett gel?scht werden.

Um Ihre Mitgliedschaft wieder zu aktivieren, k?nnen Sie einfach auf
diese Nachricht antworten (ohne die Betreff bzw. Subject-Zeile zu
ver?ndern), oder Sie klicken auf den folgenden Link.

http://mail.blablabla.de/mailman/confirm/info/c0003074d812bbe0fa6cf95465cf94cbd247fe60


Sie k?nnen auch Ihre Mitgliedschafts-Seite besuchen:

http://mail.blablabla.de/mailman/options/info/glueck%40blablabla.com


Dort k?nnen Sie verschiedenste Einstellungen, wie den Empfang von
Nachrichtensammlungen oder Ihre E-Mailadresse, konfigurieren.

Zur Erinnerung: Ihr Passwort f?r diese Liste lautet

    raoahzki

Bei Fragen oder Problemen wenden Sie sich bitte an den Betreiber
dieser Liste, erreichbar unter:

    info-owner at blablabla.com



From ing.oscar.balladares at hotmail.com  Wed Aug  5 03:08:59 2009
From: ing.oscar.balladares at hotmail.com (Oscar Balladares)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 19:08:59 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman is not emailing to mailing list users.
Message-ID: <BAY111-W49BD50E5FC6437EDBC020BC00D0@phx.gbl>



Hi everybody! this is my first post.!!

Thank you very much, in advance.

I have a functional email server: a domain name system (bind9), Postfix + courier + virtual users (mysql).
domain name: uccleon.edu.ni;
server alias: mailserver;
host name: uccleon.edu.ni;
OS: Centos 5.2.

The email service is working properly, but I had configured mailman with another domain name (ucc.lan), and everything was ok,
now that I've changed it to "uccleon.edu.ni", mailman is not sending mails to the mailling list users. I send a mail to "modulos at uccleon.edu.ni"
but it doesn't send that message to the list users. It doesnt even appear in the "List archive"  neither in the "Pending request list".
The users are not being moderated, so they can send mails in any case.

what is ok:
It sends the message for the new created list (i.e: modulos), to the admin account.  i.e : "welcome to your new mailing list: Modulos".When a user wants to subscribes, it sends the confirmation email.When a user subscribes, it sends the welcome message.
When a user wants to unsubscribes, it sends the confirmation email.
When I type: 
$: newlist modulos
it creates a "modulos at uccleon.edu.ni" recipient address, I have that account enabled in mysql and it is working fine as an email account.

I'm thinking that if everything else is working as it should, it is possible to be a "http://localhost/mailman/admin/modulos/" configuration problem, the GUI configuration.

Last time that it worked I followed these simple instructions at http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node13.html
In short, I have to add a "MTA='Postfix'" to the mm_cfg.py file. and then make a refernce to the mailman aliases file in the "virtual_alias_maps=hash:/etc/mailman/aliases"    tag, I guess that worked for me the first time. (I have a bad memory).

This is my Postfix Main.cf file:

[root at uccleon bin]# postconf -n

alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases
debug_peer_level = 2
home_mailbox = Maildir/
html_directory = no
inet_interfaces = all

mydestination = mailserver.uccleon.edu.ni, localhost, localhost.localdomain
myhostname = uccleon.edu.ni
mynetworks = 192.168.1.0/24, 127.0.0.0/8
newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases.postfix
owner_request_special = no
proxy_read_maps = $local_recipient_maps $mydestination $virtual_alias_maps $virtual_alias_domains $virtual_mailbox_maps $virtual_mailbox_domains $relay_recipient_maps $relay_domains $canonical_maps $sender_canonical_maps $recipient_canonical_maps $relocated_maps $transport_maps $mynetworks $virtual_mailbox_limit_maps
smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, permit_sasl_authenticated, reject_unauth_destination
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
smtpd_sasl_authenticated_header = yes
smtpd_tls_cert_file = /etc/postfix/smtpd.cert
smtpd_tls_key_file = /etc/postfix/smtpd.key
smtpd_use_tls = yes
transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
virtual_alias_maps = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_forwardings.cf, mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_email2email.cf, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
virtual_create_maildirsize = yes
virtual_gid_maps = static:5000
virtual_mailbox_domains = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_domains.cf
virtual_mailbox_limit_override = yes
virtual_mailbox_maps = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_mailboxes.cf
virtual_maildir_extended = yes
virtual_uid_maps = static:5000
[root at uccleon bin]# 

The mm_cfg.py file shows:

 
from Defaults import *
import pwd, grp
MAILMAN_UID = pwd.getpwnam('mailman')[2]
MAILMAN_GID = grp.getgrnam('mailman')[2]


#from socket import *
#try:
#    fqdn = getfqdn()
#except:
#    fqdn = 'mm_cfg_has_unknown_host_domains'

#DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = fqdn
#DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = fqdn
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = "uccleon.edu.ni"
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = "uccleon.edu.ni"
# Because we've overriden the virtual hosts above add_virtualhost
# MUST be called after they have been defined.

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
MTA = 'Postfix'

MY /etc/aliases

# STANZA START: modulos

# CREATED: Sun Aug  2 12:56:50 2009

#modulos:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post modulos"    

#modulos-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin modulos"  

#modulos-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces modulos"   

#modulos-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm modulos"  

#modulos-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join modulos"   

#modulos-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave modulos"   

#modulos-owner:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner modulos"   

#modulos-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request modulos"   

#modulos-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe modulos"   

#modulos-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe modulos"  

# STANZA END: modulos

#mailman:              "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
#mailman-admin:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
#mailman-bounces:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
#mailman-confirm:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
#mailman-join:         "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
#mailman-leave:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
#mailman-owner:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
#mailman-request:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
#mailman-subscribe:    "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
#mailman-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"

MY /etc/mailman/aliases

# STANZA START: mailman
# CREATED: Tue Aug  4 17:43:23 2009
mailman:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
# STANZA END: mailman

# STANZA START: modulos
# CREATED: Tue Aug  4 17:44:09 2009
modulos:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post modulos"
modulos-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin modulos"
modulos-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces modulos"
modulos-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm modulos"
modulos-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join modulos"
modulos-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave modulos"
modulos-owner:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner modulos"
modulos-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request modulos"
modulos-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe modulos"
modulos-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe modulos"
# STANZA END: modulos


Any idea is Welcome! thanks.


_________________________________________________________________
Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy!
http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us

From jodawi at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 01:56:25 2009
From: jodawi at gmail.com (John Williams)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 16:56:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom handler applied to digest to filter
	excessive quoted text?
Message-ID: <556907c50908021656h6fdcb183m40c9d5e031b36923@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Is it possible to create a custom handler for digests only?

I want a mail list that automatically strips out duplicated quoted text in
digests, so the same quoted text doesn't appear over and over. Such a thing
doesn't appear to exist in any mailing list software, so I'm looking for the
second-best thing, which is currently software that easily allows such a
filter to be inserted.

Any other ways people handle this problem, aside from telling users to not
quote excessively?

Thanks

John Williams
jodawi at gmail.com

From john.d.williams at live.com  Mon Aug  3 21:13:07 2009
From: john.d.williams at live.com (John Williams)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:13:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom handler applied to digest to filter
	excessive quoted text?
Message-ID: <SNT105-DS23E6F698BFE2A5C3C7D43FCC0F0@phx.gbl>

Hi all,

Is it possible to create a custom handler for digests only? 

I want a mail list that automatically strips out duplicated quoted text in digests, so the same quoted text doesn't appear over and over. Such a thing doesn't appear to exist in any mailing list software, so I'm looking for the second-best thing, which is currently software that easily allows such a filter to be inserted.

Any other ways people handle this problem, aside from telling users to not quote excessively?

Thanks

-- 
John Williams
john.d.williams at live.com

From socha at eur.pl  Tue Aug  4 19:37:11 2009
From: socha at eur.pl (Robert Socha)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 19:37:11 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix2mailman interface
Message-ID: <4A7871C7.6030408@eur.pl>

Helo,

Sorry for my english. It's not my native language.

I created simple program to integrate postfix with mailman. I do that 
because none other solution was ideal for my configuration of postfix
(my postfix system use only virtual users without local recipients).

My program is writen in C language and is very simple. It's take 
mappings from cdb file (qmail cdb, tinycdb library) and run mailman binary.

For example:

Postfix transport table:

nameOfList		postfix2mailman:
nameOfList-subscribe	postfix2mailman:
nameOfList-anyaction	postfix2mailman:


postfix2mailman transport is definied in master.cf (example in source code)

postfix2mailman cdb maps (arguments MUST be separate by TAB):

nameOfList		post<TAB>	nameOfList
nameOfList-subscribe	subscribe<TAB>	nameOfList
nameOfList-action	action<TAB>	nameOfList<TAB>nextarg<TAB>more


postfix2mailman translate this configuration to mailman invocation:
	
	/path/to/mailman post nameOfList
	/path/to/mailman subscribe nameOfList
	etc...

In configuration file we can set: nice level, verbosity, mailman path 
and mappings for lists.

This program works for me for more than week and I don't notice any 
problems. Mail volume on lists is about 30000 mails per day (this are 
announce type mailing lists).

Homepage:
	http://storage.socha.it/mailman/

Maybe somoeone will find this code useful :)

Greetings

Robert Socha
-- 
rjs

From steve.wray at cwa.co.nz  Thu Aug  6 05:29:50 2009
From: steve.wray at cwa.co.nz (Steve Wray)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 15:29:50 +1200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Load testing a mailman server
Message-ID: <4A7A4E2E.9070109@cwa.co.nz>

Hi there,

we are considering deploying a mailman mailing list server.

I want to ensure that its fairly lean and that it also performs adequately.

So I'd like to do some load testing on it to measure its performance.

I'm wondering if anyone can provide any ideas, insights or warnings with 
respect to this sort of thing?

Thanks!


-- 
Please remember that an email is just like a postcard; it is not 
confidential nor private nor secure and can be read by many other people 
than the intended recipient. A postcard can be read by anyone at the mail 
sorting office and expecting what is written on it to be private and secret 
is not realistic. Please hold no higher expectation of email.

If you need to send confidential information in an email you need to use 
encryption. PGP is Pretty good for this.

From steveno at ohionet.org  Thu Aug  6 15:06:39 2009
From: steveno at ohionet.org (Steven Owley)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:06:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trying to get attachments to another partition
Message-ID: <2f6f90080908060606w5b0bf2q83125108077f208a@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

Using a soft link as a substitute for the
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/my_list_name/attachments directory,
I have tried to get my mailman installation to start putting
attachments on another partition.  This has not worked--I always get a
"permission denied" error in the log.  However, the link is accessible
and the directory it points to is owned by the proper user.

Of course the overall problem is that /var is too small for the number
of lists now running on this server, but I thought that if I
redirected the attachments I could buy more time to get the storage.
I cannot figure out why this is not working.

Thanks for your help,

Steve

From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Sun Aug  2 15:57:59 2009
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (tanstaafl at libertytrek.org)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 09:57:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman user password
In-Reply-To: <87eirud1dt.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <4A74A47C.6050402@libertytrek.org>
	<87eirud1dt.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4A759B67.9050005@libertytrek.org>

On 8/2/2009 5:13 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> It's not supposed to work.  mailman privileges should only be
> accessible by the system administrator, ie, someone who has the root
> password.

Ah, ok, that makes sense...

> It's not a problem with the password for the mailman user. :-)
> 
> The init script itself may be broken.  AFAIK, the init script should
> be invoking the set-gid binary called "mailman" or "wrapper".  This
> just cleans up the environment, changes the effective user id to
> mailman, and execs the command specified.  (There's no good reason for
> *any* mailman program to be on anybody's PATH,

Iirc, with gentoo it is only for the mailman user, so running the
command as su - mailman gets the path/prefix...

> The best thing to do at this point is to run the check_perms script
> provided with mailman.  It usually resides in $prefix/lib/mailman/bin,
> but since your installation is non-standard, you may have to search
> a bit.

I thought about doing that, but the 'authentication failure' I got in
the logs was leading me to believe it was a mailman user passwd issue,
but now, after your explanation and looking more closely at the error, I
see it wasn't having trouble with the execution of the mailman start
command, it was having trouble with the su - mailman command... man, I
hate being so blind for a sighted person... ;)

I'll check this when I get into the office in a few hours...

Thanks Stephen...

From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Sun Aug  2 17:06:04 2009
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (tanstaafl at libertytrek.org)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 11:06:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman user password
In-Reply-To: <PC19220090802070551085981dc83ce@msapiro>
References: <PC19220090802070551085981dc83ce@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4A75AB5C.50900@libertytrek.org>

On 8/2/2009, Mark Sapiro (mark at msapiro.net) wrote:
> This is the real issue. mailmanctl should always be run by root.

Hmmm... ok, thanks.

So, on linux, when an init script runs at startup, it runs as root?

> Your init script should just contain
> 
> /bin/mailmanctl -s start >/dev/null 2>&1
> 
> without the su - mailman

Ok, thanks, but I'll have to find out why the gentoo init script is
written the way it is, just to make sure I don't break something if I
change it.

Thanks Mark, your helpfulness is genuinely appreciated.

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Sun Aug  2 22:38:24 2009
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (tanstaafl at libertytrek.org)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 16:38:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman user password
In-Reply-To: <PC19220090802070551085981dc83ce@msapiro>
References: <PC19220090802070551085981dc83ce@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4A75F940.4020707@libertytrek.org>

On 8/2/2009 10:05 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> This is the real issue. mailmanctl should always be run by root. Your
> init script should just contain
> 
> /bin/mailmanctl -s start >/dev/null 2>&1
> 
> without the su - mailman

Ok, I tried this, but it did the same thing... however, I tried
something else - adding the full path to the command - and it now works:

su - mailman -c '/usr/lib64/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start' >/dev/null 2>&1

I'm assuming this is a gentoo issue, but if anyone here runs gentoo and
might know whats up with this I'd appreciate a comment.

Thanks Mark! At least it works now. :)

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Sun Aug  2 22:40:32 2009
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (tanstaafl at libertytrek.org)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 16:40:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman user password
In-Reply-To: <87eirud1dt.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <4A74A47C.6050402@libertytrek.org>
	<87eirud1dt.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4A75F9C0.3020705@libertytrek.org>

On 8/2/2009, Stephen J. Turnbull (stephen at xemacs.org) wrote:
> (There's no good reason for *any* mailman program to be on anybody's
> PATH, so yes, just having /bin/mailmanctl makes your installation
> nonstandard.)

Hmmm... Mark didn't seem to agree... he said:

> Your init script should just contain
> 
> /bin/mailmanctl -s start >/dev/null 2>&1
> 
> without the su - mailman

Or are you speaking strictly in terms of the fact that I'm on a gentoo
system?

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From measl at mfn.org  Fri Aug  7 07:26:36 2009
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 00:26:36 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Load testing a mailman server
In-Reply-To: <4A7A4E2E.9070109@cwa.co.nz>
References: <4A7A4E2E.9070109@cwa.co.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908070025110.32732@mx1.mfn.org>


On Thu, 6 Aug 2009, Steve Wray wrote:

> Hi there,
> 
> we are considering deploying a mailman mailing list server.
> 
> I want to ensure that its fairly lean and that it also performs adequately.
> 
> So I'd like to do some load testing on it to measure its performance.
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone can provide any ideas, insights or warnings with
> respect to this sort of thing?
> 
> Thanks!

Load testing is a very simple and staright forward manner, however, I 
would question the need for it unless you are dealing with lists of 
unusual size or settings (VERP comes to mind).  More data from you would 
help.

//Alif

-- 
Yours,
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin_at_mfn.org
0xpgp_key_mgmt_is_broken-dont_bother

"Never belong to any party, always oppose privileged classes and public
plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to
the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always
be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by
predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty."

Joseph Pulitzer
1907 Speech

From mihamina at gulfsat.mg  Fri Aug  7 07:48:56 2009
From: mihamina at gulfsat.mg (Rakotomandimby Mihamina)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:48:56 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Load testing a mailman server
In-Reply-To: <4A7A4E2E.9070109@cwa.co.nz>
References: <4A7A4E2E.9070109@cwa.co.nz>
Message-ID: <4A7BC048.8060509@gulfsat.mg>

08/06/2009 06:29 AM, Steve Wray:
> I'm wondering if anyone can provide any ideas, insights or warnings with
> respect to this sort of thing?

I think you should firts enquire the debian and python mailing list managers.
They could give you some statistics (CPU usage, Network used, what hardware,...)

-- 
                             Architecte Informatique:
    Administration Systeme, Recherche & Developpement
                                   + 261 32 11 401 65
Pensez a l'environnement avant d'imprimer ce message

From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Aug  7 08:09:41 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:09:41 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom handler applied to digest to
	filter	excessive quoted text?
In-Reply-To: <556907c50908021656h6fdcb183m40c9d5e031b36923@mail.gmail.com>
References: <556907c50908021656h6fdcb183m40c9d5e031b36923@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87ws5g9mu2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

John Williams writes:

 > Is it possible to create a custom handler for digests only?

Yes.  The standard pipeline contains a handler named "ToDigest" or
something like that.  You edit the pipeline either in mm_cfg.py (for
global effect) or create a local pipeline with bin/with_list (this has
some UI gotchas although once you get the pipeline actually edited and
saved it works great; feel free to remind me but I don't have time to
go into it now).

So what you do is write your handler to do its job, then chain
ToDigest's "process" function from there.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Aug  7 09:19:01 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 02:19:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Load testing a mailman server
In-Reply-To: <4A7BC048.8060509@gulfsat.mg>
References: <4A7A4E2E.9070109@cwa.co.nz> <4A7BC048.8060509@gulfsat.mg>
Message-ID: <4A7BD565.4060205@shub-internet.org>

on 8/7/09 12:48 AM, Rakotomandimby Mihamina said:

>> I'm wondering if anyone can provide any ideas, insights or warnings with
>> respect to this sort of thing?
> 
> I think you should firts enquire the debian and python mailing list 
> managers. They could give you some statistics (CPU usage, Network
> used, what hardware,...)

We've got some information in FAQ 1.15 at <http://wiki.list.org/x/NoA9> 
with regards to the largest lists that can be run with Mailman, but that 
doesn't directly address the issue of tools to do actual load testing.

Myself, I tend to use the "smtpsource" and "smtpsink" tools that Wietse 
Venema created (available as part of the standard postfix source 
installation, although perhaps not included with binary package versions 
from other sources), along with the "postal" tools written by Russ Coker 
(see <http://doc.coker.com.au/projects/postal/>).


If you're going to be doing any benchmarking or load-testing, make sure 
you read, understand, and follow all the various relevant FAQs in the 
Mailman FAQ Wiki, especially in section 6.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Fri Aug  7 09:53:10 2009
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:53:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange Wiki entry for Postfix Tuning
In-Reply-To: <4A7B33C8.5090300@shub-internet.org>
References: <20090804101104.GC16421@mail.incertum.net>
	<4A7B33C8.5090300@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <20090807075310.GE15761@charite.de>

* Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>:

> The way I read this, it has nothing to do with the number of MXes you
> have.  It has to do with how many SMTP delivery sessions you'll
> attempt over the same connection before you drop the connection and
> re-connect (if you have more than this number of deliveries left),
> and that re-connection may well end up going to a different MX.

No. That's controlled elsewhere, based on time:

smtp_connection_cache_destinations = 
smtp_connection_cache_on_demand = yes

smtp_connection_cache_time_limit = 2s
When SMTP connection caching is enabled, the amount of time that an
unused SMTP client socket is kept open before it is closed. Do not
specify larger values without permission from the remote sites. 

smtp_connection_reuse_time_limit = 300s
The amount of time during which Postfix will use an SMTP connection
repeatedly. The timer starts when the connection is initiated (i.e. it
includes the connect, greeting and helo latency, in addition to the
latencies of subsequent mail delivery transactions). 

> This helps avoid conditions where you get locked into a particular MX
> that is slow, and that slows down all your delivery to that site, for
> as long as you have mail for that site.

smtp_connection_reuse_time_limit does that:

The problem starts when one of a set of MX hosts becomes slower than
the rest. Even though SMTP clients connect to fast and slow MX hosts
with equal probability, the slow MX host ends up with more
simultaneous inbound connections than the faster MX hosts, because the
slow MX host needs more time to serve each client request.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Fri Aug  7 09:53:35 2009
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:53:35 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] erroneous unsubscriptions
In-Reply-To: <9b79d020908051245k1c0d627ava624b337ff1699d2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9b79d020908051245k1c0d627ava624b337ff1699d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090807075334.GF15761@charite.de>

* Lakshmi <80.lakshmi at gmail.com>:
> Hi
> i am the owner of a mailing list. Recently people on the list were getting
> unsubscribed mysteriously. I have even disabled the bounce process.
> A few hours ago i received 30 unsubscription notifications. This is a
> serious error.
> 
> Can someone please suggest how to fix this problem.

Look at your logs

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Aug  7 11:44:08 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 18:44:08 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman user password
In-Reply-To: <4A75F9C0.3020705@libertytrek.org>
References: <4A74A47C.6050402@libertytrek.org>
	<87eirud1dt.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<4A75F9C0.3020705@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: <87vdl09cwn.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

tanstaafl at libertytrek.org writes:

 > On 8/2/2009, Stephen J. Turnbull (stephen at xemacs.org) wrote:
 > > (There's no good reason for *any* mailman program to be on anybody's
 > > PATH, so yes, just having /bin/mailmanctl makes your installation
 > > nonstandard.)
 > 
 > Hmmm... Mark didn't seem to agree... he said:

First, if you're sure you know why Mark said what he did, consider him
authoritative.  (For future reference, Barry Warsaw and Brad Knowles
should also be considered authoritative unless they disagree.  [@Brad:
I know you like to deprecate your expertise these days, but you don't
spout off unless you do know, or at least provide appropriate
caveats.] :-)  Me?  I'm definitely of the persuasion that it is better
to be in error than in doubt. :-)

However, in this case, I was assuming that Mark simply took you at
your word that mailmanctl lives in /bin, not in something like
/usr/lib/mailman/bin (which is where it is on Debian; it is also
visible at /var/lib/mailman/bin).  My point was simply that normally
Mailman functions are invoked from CGI scripts, the MTA, or an init
script, so having the full path is not a burden.  None of the Mailman
servers I have access to have /bin/mailmanctl, so I believe it's
nonstandard (at the very least I would expect it to be in /sbin, more
likely /usr/sbin, and most likely, for the reasons mentioned, in none
of them :-).

The word "nonstandard" was not meant to be critical of your setup,
except as far as it makes our advice less accurate.

 > Or are you speaking strictly in terms of the fact that I'm on a gentoo
 > system?

No.  I do run Gentoo on my workstation, but my mailman server is on
Debian, so I don't know about the Gentoo package.  (My preference is
to run the oldest OS that can run my services, and Debian stable fits
that bill quite nicely. :-)

From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Fri Aug  7 12:35:25 2009
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (tanstaafl at libertytrek.org)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 06:35:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman user password
In-Reply-To: <87vdl09cwn.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <4A74A47C.6050402@libertytrek.org>	<87eirud1dt.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>	<4A75F9C0.3020705@libertytrek.org>
	<87vdl09cwn.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4A7C036D.2060104@libertytrek.org>

On 8/7/2009 5:44 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>>> (There's no good reason for *any* mailman program to be on anybody's
>>> PATH, so yes, just having /bin/mailmanctl makes your installation
>>> nonstandard.)

>> Hmmm... Mark didn't seem to agree... he said:

> First, if you're sure you know why Mark said what he did, consider him
> authoritative.

Heh... I know enough to know that I'm not sure of anything...

> However, in this case, I was assuming that Mark simply took you at
> your word that mailmanctl lives in /bin, not in something like
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin (which is where it is on Debian; it is also
> visible at /var/lib/mailman/bin).  My point was simply that normally
> Mailman functions are invoked from CGI scripts, the MTA, or an init
> script, so having the full path is not a burden.  None of the Mailman
> servers I have access to have /bin/mailmanctl, so I believe it's
> nonstandard (at the very least I would expect it to be in /sbin, more
> likely /usr/sbin, and most likely, for the reasons mentioned, in none
> of them :-).

In Gentoo, it lives in /usr/lib64/mailman/bin

> The word "nonstandard" was not meant to be critical of your setup,
> except as far as it makes our advice less accurate.

I know, and no offense taken... I did say 'on gentoo'... I totally
understand different distros do things differently. But I was using the
init script that gentoo installed, and no one on the gentoo forums could
figure out why it wouldn't start. Something broke during the 2.1.9 >
2.1.10 upgrade, and I've been trying to fix it ever since... well, I
took a look at it for 15 or 20 minutes, 2 or 3 times (whenever I had to
reboot) over the last 2 years, but since I could start it manually, and
hardly ever reboot, it wasn't a priority.

There's an upgrade available for 2.1.12 now, so I'll see what happens
when I upgrade this time. At least I'll know what to do if it changes
the init script back and still won't start.

> (My preference is to run the oldest OS that can run my services,

<shudder> I'm the exact opposite... ain't it grand that there's a distro
for every one out there somewhere? ;)

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Fri Aug  7 12:40:04 2009
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (tanstaafl at libertytrek.org)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 06:40:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom handler applied to digest
 to	filter	excessive quoted text?
In-Reply-To: <87ws5g9mu2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <556907c50908021656h6fdcb183m40c9d5e031b36923@mail.gmail.com>
	<87ws5g9mu2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4A7C0484.2040702@libertytrek.org>

On 8/7/2009, Stephen J. Turnbull (stephen at xemacs.org) wrote:
>> Is it possible to create a custom handler for digests only?

<snip>

>> I want a mail list that automatically strips out duplicated quoted text in
>> digests,

> Yes.

Wow, I'd be interested in this if you get it working... and I'd think
the mainline devs might be interested too.

By the way John... I'm guessing you sent your post twice becaqsue you
didn't realize that when posting from your gmail account, you won't see
your own posts? It considers the message you 'Sent' and  the one the
list sends as 'duplicates', so hides (or deletes?) the second one (from
the list). I really hate that about gmail...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From lists at ricmarques.net  Fri Aug  7 13:01:12 2009
From: lists at ricmarques.net (Ricardo Dias Marques)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:01:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email command in Mailman to get by e-mail a
	message(like ezmlm has)
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009073109483304681a4d3ab5@msapiro>
References: <aea63ba20907310904u742e22e4xe38837d9633ad640@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1922009073109483304681a4d3ab5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <aea63ba20908070401o29d4e7dcna7a630d738781514@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009, Mark Sapiro<mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> No. There are no email commands for retrieving archived messages.

Thanks for your quick reply. Is there any reason for not implementing
this functionality -OR- is it just that there are other more urgent
things to implement for Mailman first?


> The pipermail web archive has periodic pseudo-mailbox (.txt and/or
> .txt.gz) files and there is normally a global archive mailbox in the
> file archives/private/LIST.mbox/LIST.mbox that may be linked from the
> archive table of contents and can normally be retrieved via a URL like
> <http://www.example.com/mailman/private/LIST.mbox/LIST.mbox>, but
> there is no mechanism to retrieve messages from the archive via email
> commends.

Interesting. Thanks for the information!

Cheers,
Ricardo

Ricardo Dias Marques
lists AT ricmarques DOT net

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Fri Aug  7 13:46:56 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:46:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MailMan For LAN Only
In-Reply-To: <d80f793f0908050854i8f5f980ncb2e492f123d614@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d80f793f0908050854i8f5f980ncb2e492f123d614@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090807114655.GL30597@amyl.org.uk>

On Wed, Aug 05, 2009 at 11:54:44AM -0400, Carlos Williams wrote:
> I am wanting to implement MailMan for my company LAN. I am currently
> running my email server on Postfix. I am wondering if someone can
> answer these questions for me. If I install MailMan / Apache on my
> mail server, will the MailMan list be visible by anyone on the web who
> can access my mail server via Apache? 

"visible" in which regard? via Apache, it's possible to restrict
access to subnets, for example. Firewall rules can also be invoked.

(in short: depends how you set it up.)

Presumably Postfix supports some sort of ACLs, which may "help" in
keeping your list(s) to people/addresses you've explicitly
whitelisted, or something similar. Or just rely on Mailman's handling
of non-members.

> I am worried about spammers
> using MailMan to harvest valid email addresses. Even though it appears
> from the reading I have done that non-members can't send to the list
> w/o moderator approval, I still don't want the vulnerability of
> exposing my subscribed members email addresses.

restrict seeing subscribers to admins only? use "strong" passwords,
perhaps. Disable access to specific mailman scripts from non-trusted
addresses? don't have archives available to the public internet? 

> Can someone please tell me if this is possible 

Should be...

> and or how I should consider configuring MailMan for my LAN?

... although most of what you're after, as I understand it, is
not within Mailman itself, but down to webserver/firewall/MTA
configuration (well, that's how I might go about sorting out a
'private' installation)


-- 
``Have you always been revolutionary socialists?''
``No, we vote Conservative.''  (Simon Hoggart, interviewing a middle-class
                                couple at a reading of Tony Benn's speeches)

From barry at python.org  Fri Aug  7 16:19:29 2009
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:19:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved: password header!
In-Reply-To: <PC192200908062108240937294eee81@msapiro>
References: <PC192200908062108240937294eee81@msapiro>
Message-ID: <03B18B64-B9F5-4201-8E63-21DB4379FC64@python.org>

On Aug 7, 2009, at 12:08 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> The idea is to require the square brackets so a mere "approved:" in  
> the
> subject (such as this message) doesn't trigger a match. We only match
> if we find "Approve:" or "Approved:" followed by a single "word"
> inside the square brackets and then we remove the brackets and their
> contents.

As a comparison, Launchpad's code review process allows for commands  
in the body of the message.  It looks for specific commands prepended  
by a space.  I don't particularly like that approach though because  
the space can be hard to see.

Wrapping the Approve pseudo-header in brackets might be okay, though  
ideally, I think Mailman should maintain a set of OpenPGP public keys  
and do approval matching based on that.  Yes, I know that signing  
messages is problematic for a lot of people, but it would certainly be  
less ambiguous on Mailman's side.

I think anytime Mailman has to go trolling inside the body of the  
message, we're in trouble.

-Barry

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From barry at python.org  Fri Aug  7 16:33:06 2009
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:33:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman user password
In-Reply-To: <87vdl09cwn.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <4A74A47C.6050402@libertytrek.org>
	<87eirud1dt.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<4A75F9C0.3020705@libertytrek.org>
	<87vdl09cwn.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <EA23C551-79CB-4FF1-A454-C35D49353009@python.org>

I'm sorry, I missed the OP and can't at the moment check the archives...

On Aug 7, 2009, at 5:44 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> However, in this case, I was assuming that Mark simply took you at
> your word that mailmanctl lives in /bin, not in something like
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin (which is where it is on Debian; it is also
> visible at /var/lib/mailman/bin).  My point was simply that normally
> Mailman functions are invoked from CGI scripts, the MTA, or an init
> script, so having the full path is not a burden.  None of the Mailman
> servers I have access to have /bin/mailmanctl, so I believe it's
> nonstandard (at the very least I would expect it to be in /sbin, more
> likely /usr/sbin, and most likely, for the reasons mentioned, in none
> of them :-).
>
> The word "nonstandard" was not meant to be critical of your setup,
> except as far as it makes our advice less accurate.

I can't check my Gentoo or Ubuntu machines right now, but on my own  
servers, I run Mailman from source anyway :).

But in any case, I do think mailmanctl should be in sbin or  
equivalent, though most people will probably use an init.d script to  
start and stop mailman.

It kind of sucks that there are so many other Mailman command line  
scripts, which is one reason why I've always put them in a separate  
Mailman specific bin directory.  With MM3 though I intend to use a  
'subcommand' approach so that there's only one 'mailman' command.   
Think things like 'mailman listmembers foo'.  I'll probably keep  
mailmanctl separate though I haven't decided about that yet.

-Barry

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From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug  7 16:54:37 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 07:54:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] erroneous unsubscriptions
In-Reply-To: <9b79d020908051245k1c0d627ava624b337ff1699d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC192200908070754370187355816a0@msapiro>

Lakshmi wrote:

>i am the owner of a mailing list. Recently people on the list were getting
>unsubscribed mysteriously. I have even disabled the bounce process.
>A few hours ago i received 30 unsubscription notifications. This is a
>serious error.


As Ralf suggests, if you have access, look at Mailman's bounce log.

If users have had delivery disabled by bounce processing (a 'B' in the
nomail column in the admin Membership List pages), turning off bounce
processing will not prevent them from being removed after their
warnings are exhausted.

If you have access to Mailman's logs and the system mail log, look at
Mailman's bounce, smtp-failure and subscribe logs. If there are
bounces you don't think are valid, check the system mail log too. If
you don't have access to these logs, you need to be talking to the
people who administer the Mailman installation you use.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From b19141 at anl.gov  Fri Aug  7 16:59:40 2009
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Fri,  7 Aug 2009 09:59:40 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved: password header!
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Barry Warsaw <barry@python.org>'
	dated: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:19:29 -0400
Message-ID: <20090807145940.89EE9175A2@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:

>As a comparison, Launchpad's code review process allows for commands  
>in the body of the message.  It looks for specific commands prepended  
>by a space.  I don't particularly like that approach though because  
>the space can be hard to see.

Would it find a command that is at the beginning of a line (and thus
not preceeded by a space)?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Fri Aug  7 17:13:55 2009
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 15:13:55 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved: password header!
In-Reply-To: <PC192200908061359490140294eeb7d@msapiro>
References: <COL105-W3CCCD847A1AA49C5BCEC5FB0A0@phx.gbl>
	<PC192200908061359490140294eeb7d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <COL105-W37D3AFAA38070B42C95F1FB0B0@phx.gbl>


 

WOWZERS.. I never knew I'd result in such a big fuss..

 

well I'm sorry I didn't quite understand, what should I do with this file you sent me (approve.patch.txt) ?? where should I put it and what to name it and what to do with its permissions n stuff?

 

I'm sorry I'm still zero in tghis stuff..

 

Thanks ..

 


 
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:59:49 -0700
> From: mark at msapiro.net
> To: khillo100 at hotmail.com; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Approved: password header!
> 
> Khalil Abbas wrote:
> >
> >my suggestion is, before I had the honor to use outlook I had Smartermail .. they have a cool feature of approving messages with passwords is to use it in the subject line itself : "[password: PASSWORD] Subject bla bla bla".. then it removes the password part of course ..
> >
> > 
> >
> >why don't you guys do the same? it sure beats adding a custom header and stuff .. because in html messages it's really hard to do that !!
> 
> 
> We do. Just not in the subject.
> 
> As long as the incoming message has a text/plain part (i.e. is either a
> text/plain message or a multipart/alternative message with a
> text/plain alternative, we recognize and delete "Approved: passord" if
> it is the first non-blank line of the body. We also attempt to delete
> the line from any other body parts in which it appears, but in
> pathological cases, this may fail, so test first.
> 
> If your clients insist on posting HTML only messages and can't add an
> actual Approved: header to the message, then you can try patching
> Mailman/Handlers/Approve.py to recognize "[Approved: password]" in the
> Subject: header. The attached Approve.patch.txt file contains a patch
> that might do it.
> 
> I'll consider this as a feature for Mailman 2.2
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 

_________________________________________________________________
With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/products/photo-gallery-edit.aspx

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug  7 17:28:51 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:28:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom handler applied to digest
	tofilter	excessive quoted text?
In-Reply-To: <87ws5g9mu2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC192200908070828510968e176847b@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>John Williams writes:
>
> > Is it possible to create a custom handler for digests only?
>
>Yes.  The standard pipeline contains a handler named "ToDigest" or
>something like that.  You edit the pipeline either in mm_cfg.py (for
>global effect) or create a local pipeline with bin/with_list (this has
>some UI gotchas although once you get the pipeline actually edited and
>saved it works great; feel free to remind me but I don't have time to
>go into it now).


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>.


>So what you do is write your handler to do its job, then chain
>ToDigest's "process" function from there.


This may or may not work depending on whether the filtering of quotes
needs to look at more that the current message. Of course, I suppose
it could look at the list's digest.mbox for prior messages if
necessary.

However, why do this only for digests. Granted, that's where the
problem is most apparent, but I think in most cases the excessive
quotes could be trimmed from individual messages too. Every once in a
while, someone replis to something in a digest and quotes the entire
digest. Generally, these get caught on my lists for "too big", but I'd
want those quotes and less egregious ones removed from messages too.
And, if someone really needs more context for a reply, they can get it
from the archive.

I would have implemented it myself by now, but I haven't spent the time
to come up with a good algorithm for recognizing and removing
excessive quotes. Of course I could always use a gross cut approach
and make the users adapt to it ;)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug  7 17:35:28 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:35:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved: password header!
In-Reply-To: <COL105-W37D3AFAA38070B42C95F1FB0B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC192200908070835280140e1768128@msapiro>

Khalil Abbas wrote:
>
>well I'm sorry I didn't quite understand, what should I do with this file you sent me (approve.patch.txt) ?? where should I put it and what to name it and what to do with its permissions n stuff?


I probably shouldn't tell you because if you don't know how to apply a
patch, you probably shouldn't do it, but

1) make a backup copy of Mailman/Handlers/Approve.py

2) give the command

  patch /path/to/Mailman/Handlers/Approve.py < approve.patch.txt

3) restart Mailman

4) If any problems result, restore Mailman/Handlers/Approve.py from
your backup and restart Mailman


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug  7 18:02:48 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:02:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman is not emailing to mailing list users.
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-W49BD50E5FC6437EDBC020BC00D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC192200908070902480171e176815b@msapiro>

Oscar Balladares wrote:
>
>I have a functional email server: a domain name system (bind9), Postfix + courier + virtual users (mysql).
>domain name: uccleon.edu.ni;
>server alias: mailserver;
>host name: uccleon.edu.ni;
>OS: Centos 5.2.


OK


>The email service is working properly, but I had configured mailman with another domain name (ucc.lan), and everything was ok,
>now that I've changed it to "uccleon.edu.ni", mailman is not sending mails to the mailling list users. I send a mail to "modulos at uccleon.edu.ni"
>but it doesn't send that message to the list users. It doesnt even appear in the "List archive"  neither in the "Pending request list".
>The users are not being moderated, so they can send mails in any case.
>
>what is ok:
>It sends the message for the new created list (i.e: modulos), to the admin account.  i.e : "welcome to your new mailing list: Modulos".When a user wants to subscribes, it sends the confirmation email.When a user subscribes, it sends the welcome message.
>When a user wants to unsubscribes, it sends the confirmation email.
>When I type: 
>$: newlist modulos
>it creates a "modulos at uccleon.edu.ni" recipient address, I have that account enabled in mysql and it is working fine as an email account.


It appears that the issue is probably that Postfix is not delivering
the mail to Mailman. If this is not the case, see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9> for other ideas.



>I'm thinking that if everything else is working as it should, it is possible to be a "http://localhost/mailman/admin/modulos/" configuration problem, the GUI configuration.


The GUI per se has nothing to do with the flow of mail through Mailman.


>Last time that it worked I followed these simple instructions at http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node13.html
>In short, I have to add a "MTA='Postfix'" to the mm_cfg.py file. and then make a refernce to the mailman aliases file in the "virtual_alias_maps=hash:/etc/mailman/aliases"    tag, I guess that worked for me the first time. (I have a bad memory).


When you changed the domain name, did you update mm_cfg.py and run
fix_url per the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/gIA9>, and then run
Mailman's bin/genaliases to rebuild the Postfix aliases?

>This is my Postfix Main.cf file:
>
>[root at uccleon bin]# postconf -n
>
>alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
>alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases
>debug_peer_level = 2
>home_mailbox = Maildir/
>html_directory = no
>inet_interfaces = all
>
>mydestination = mailserver.uccleon.edu.ni, localhost, localhost.localdomain
>myhostname = uccleon.edu.ni
>mynetworks = 192.168.1.0/24, 127.0.0.0/8
>newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases.postfix
>owner_request_special = no
>proxy_read_maps = $local_recipient_maps $mydestination $virtual_alias_maps $virtual_alias_domains $virtual_mailbox_maps $virtual_mailbox_domains $relay_recipient_maps $relay_domains $canonical_maps $sender_canonical_maps $recipient_canonical_maps $relocated_maps $transport_maps $mynetworks $virtual_mailbox_limit_maps
>smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name
>smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, permit_sasl_authenticated, reject_unauth_destination
>smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
>smtpd_sasl_authenticated_header = yes
>smtpd_tls_cert_file = /etc/postfix/smtpd.cert
>smtpd_tls_key_file = /etc/postfix/smtpd.key
>smtpd_use_tls = yes
>transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
>unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
>virtual_alias_maps = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_forwardings.cf, mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_email2email.cf, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases


In RedHat/Centos packages, /etc/mailman/aliases is a symlink to
Mailman's data/aliases, and this is an alias_map file, not a
virtual_alias_map file.


>virtual_create_maildirsize = yes
>virtual_gid_maps = static:5000
>virtual_mailbox_domains = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_domains.cf
>virtual_mailbox_limit_override = yes
>virtual_mailbox_maps = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_mailboxes.cf
>virtual_maildir_extended = yes
>virtual_uid_maps = static:5000
>[root at uccleon bin]# 
>
>The mm_cfg.py file shows:
>
> 
>from Defaults import *
>import pwd, grp
>MAILMAN_UID = pwd.getpwnam('mailman')[2]
>MAILMAN_GID = grp.getgrnam('mailman')[2]
>
>
>#from socket import *
>#try:
>#    fqdn = getfqdn()
>#except:
>#    fqdn = 'mm_cfg_has_unknown_host_domains'
>
>#DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = fqdn
>#DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = fqdn
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = "uccleon.edu.ni"
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = "uccleon.edu.ni"
># Because we've overriden the virtual hosts above add_virtualhost
># MUST be called after they have been defined.


At this point add

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()

It's not critical, but it removes the 'wrong' entry from Defaults.py


>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>
>MY /etc/aliases
>
># STANZA START: modulos
>
># CREATED: Sun Aug  2 12:56:50 2009
>
>#modulos:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post modulos"    
>
>#modulos-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin modulos"  
>
>#modulos-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces modulos"   
>
>#modulos-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm modulos"  
>
>#modulos-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join modulos"   
>
>#modulos-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave modulos"   
>
>#modulos-owner:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner modulos"   
>
>#modulos-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request modulos"   
>
>#modulos-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe modulos"   
>
>#modulos-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe modulos"  
>
># STANZA END: modulos
>
>#mailman:              "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
>#mailman-admin:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
>#mailman-bounces:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
>#mailman-confirm:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
>#mailman-join:         "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
>#mailman-leave:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
>#mailman-owner:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
>#mailman-request:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
>#mailman-subscribe:    "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
>#mailman-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"


Irrelevant because it's all comments.

>MY /etc/mailman/aliases
>
># STANZA START: mailman
># CREATED: Tue Aug  4 17:43:23 2009
>mailman:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
>mailman-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
>mailman-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
>mailman-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
>mailman-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
>mailman-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
>mailman-owner:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
>mailman-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
>mailman-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
>mailman-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
># STANZA END: mailman
>
># STANZA START: modulos
># CREATED: Tue Aug  4 17:44:09 2009
>modulos:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post modulos"
>modulos-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin modulos"
>modulos-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces modulos"
>modulos-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm modulos"
>modulos-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join modulos"
>modulos-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave modulos"
>modulos-owner:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner modulos"
>modulos-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request modulos"
>modulos-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe modulos"
>modulos-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe modulos"
># STANZA END: modulos


Again, this file is an alias_maps file, not a virtual_alias_maps file.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug  7 18:18:20 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:18:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman user password
In-Reply-To: <87vdl09cwn.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC192200908070918200984e176846c@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>
>However, in this case, I was assuming that Mark simply took you at
>your word that mailmanctl lives in /bin,


Exactly.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug  7 18:32:23 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:32:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Load testing a mailman server
In-Reply-To: <4A7A4E2E.9070109@cwa.co.nz>
Message-ID: <PC1922009080709322308903ecc8511@msapiro>

Steve Wray wrote:
>
>So I'd like to do some load testing on it to measure its performance.
>
>I'm wondering if anyone can provide any ideas, insights or warnings with 
>respect to this sort of thing?


There is a script in the distribution - tests/fblast.py

It doesn't produce a report, but you can use it to bombard a list with
mail and then watch what happens to your system. See the docstring at
the beginning of the file for more info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug  7 18:38:35 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:38:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trying to get attachments to another partition
In-Reply-To: <2f6f90080908060606w5b0bf2q83125108077f208a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1922009080709383508903ecc851d@msapiro>

Steven Owley wrote:
>
>Using a soft link as a substitute for the
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/my_list_name/attachments directory,
>I have tried to get my mailman installation to start putting
>attachments on another partition.  This has not worked--I always get a
>"permission denied" error in the log.  However, the link is accessible
>and the directory it points to is owned by the proper user.


Is the directory it points to (and subordinates) SETGID and in
Mailman's group? For most (not quite all) Mailman files the owner is
irrelevant; it's the group that counts.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Fri Aug  7 20:10:57 2009
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (tanstaafl at libertytrek.org)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:10:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman user password
In-Reply-To: <PC192200908070918200984e176846c@msapiro>
References: <PC192200908070918200984e176846c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4A7C6E31.6070708@libertytrek.org>

On 8/7/2009, Mark Sapiro (mark at msapiro.net) wrote:
> Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>>
>> However, in this case, I was assuming that Mark simply took you at
>> your word that mailmanctl lives in /bin,

> Exactly.

Ok, but... well, I didn't exactly say that, but yes, that was what the
command in question showed.

It's been a while since I researched this, but the reasoning was that
/usr/lib64/mailman was in the path for user mailman, and the command was
executed as mailman user, so had the path, so the command only needed to
be /bin/...

Anyway, this isn't a mailman issue anymore, so I won't say any more
about it...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From barry at python.org  Sat Aug  8 00:32:36 2009
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 18:32:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved: password header!
In-Reply-To: <20090807145940.89EE9175A2@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
References: <20090807145940.89EE9175A2@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <5A516354-FF83-4865-96A9-4E5D59866F04@python.org>

On Aug 7, 2009, at 10:59 AM, Barry Finkel wrote:

> Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:
>
>> As a comparison, Launchpad's code review process allows for commands
>> in the body of the message.  It looks for specific commands prepended
>> by a space.  I don't particularly like that approach though because
>> the space can be hard to see.
>
> Would it find a command that is at the beginning of a line (and thus
> not preceeded by a space)?

Sorry, my explanation was incomplete.  Launchpad code review commands  
must begin at the start of the line, with a preceding space, e.g.

  review approve
  status approve

I think command messages must also be signed.  Also, there are only a  
limited number of email commands available.  In MM3, I plan on  
allowing for extensions via a pluggable architecture.

-Barry

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From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug  8 01:58:12 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:58:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email command in Mailman to get by e-mail a
	message(like ezmlm has)
In-Reply-To: <aea63ba20908070401o29d4e7dcna7a630d738781514@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC192200908071658120375b41fdec3@msapiro>

Ricardo Dias Marques wrote:
>
>> No. There are no email commands for retrieving archived messages.
>
>Thanks for your quick reply. Is there any reason for not implementing
>this functionality -OR- is it just that there are other more urgent
>things to implement for Mailman first?


A bit of both. Mailman's philosophy from the beginning has been to
provide web based tools and interfaces in preference to email based. 

Also, I think no one has really perceived a need for this kind of
function.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Aug  8 05:14:08 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 12:14:08 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  MailMan For LAN Only
In-Reply-To: <d80f793f0908050854i8f5f980ncb2e492f123d614@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d80f793f0908050854i8f5f980ncb2e492f123d614@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87tz0j9ev3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Carlos Williams writes:

 > I am wanting to implement MailMan for my company LAN. I am currently
 > running my email server on Postfix. I am wondering if someone can
 > answer these questions for me. If I install MailMan / Apache on my
 > mail server, will the MailMan list be visible by anyone on the web who
 > can access my mail server via Apache?

No, only to those with the admin password.  It may also be possible to
get the list of members by email, but (a) list members (or the admin)
can exclude their own addresses from that list and (b) the facility
can be turned off entirely (which it is by default AFAIK).

However, as Adam McGregor pointed out, this really isn't an issue of
Mailman security at all as you've described it so far.  It's a
question of locking down the firewall in general, the MTA, and Apache.

First, you may want to consider a separate host which runs Postfix,
Apache, and Mailman.  The only users are root, mailman, and www-data.
This is not an MX, in fact it probably shouldn't be routable at all
from outside the LAN/VPN.  I ran my (very small) Mailman lists from a
Pentium 133 MHz with 80MB of RAM running Linux until it died last
year.  Mailman per se thus can run on any hardware you can buy off the
shelf today.  Performance should not be a problem until you have lists
> 10000 members with frequent traffic; the price of the hardware will
be determined by the reliability you demand.

If you are installing a webserver on the existing mail host only to
provide the Mailman web interface, you can restrict access to Apache
at the firewall.  This implies that admins do their work, and list
members access their membership configurations, via the corporate LAN
or VPN.

Mailman restricts access to the membership list and other admin
functions to those with the admin password.  If you use a strong
password and have access via https rather than http, the worrying risk
to the admin pages is social (disgruntled admins, bribery, rootkit on
the admin's machine) rather than technical, even with access via the
public Internet.  (I still recommend restricting access to the Mailman
pages to inside the LAN/VPN, though.)

 > I am worried about spammers using MailMan to harvest valid email
 > addresses.

The main vulnerability here is the archives.  Some obfuscation of the
addresses in the messages can be done by the default archiver.  But a
better route is to restrict access to those pages (or to Apache
itself) to inside-the-LAN IP addresses.

 > Can someone please tell me if this is possible and or how I should
 > consider configuring MailMan for my LAN?

If I were you, I wouldn't worry about configuring Mailman for security
at all.  I'd configure the firewall and Apache to require strong
authorization (eg, the VPN or attached directly to the LAN) to access
Mailman admin and user pages (including the list archives) at all.  If
people need access from outside the physical LAN, they should use a
VPN.


From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Sun Aug  9 17:16:35 2009
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 15:16:35 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] web-interface password..
Message-ID: <COL105-W47F8FE63536BF32E950A1FB090@phx.gbl>


Hi, 

 

some of my lists ask for the password once and never ask again whenever I'm logged on, and some of them ask twice, once on logon and once when clicking on anything else ..most of them actually ask for the password twice then never ask again whenever I'm logged on ..

 

why's that ?

 

_________________________________________________________________
With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/products/photo-gallery-edit.aspx

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Aug  9 17:40:23 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 08:40:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] web-interface password..
In-Reply-To: <COL105-W47F8FE63536BF32E950A1FB090@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC1922009080908402300938c621ef4@msapiro>

Khalil Abbas wrote:
>
>some of my lists ask for the password once and never ask again whenever I'm logged on, and some of them ask twice, once on logon and once when clicking on anything else ..most of them actually ask for the password twice then never ask again whenever I'm logged on ..
>
> 
>
>why's that ?


Because the host name in the URL you initially go to is not the same as
the host name in the links on the page so the inital login cookie is
not returned on the subsequent click because it's for a different host.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9> and other FAQs referenced
therein for more information and how to fix it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Aug  9 19:28:51 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 12:28:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate Messages
In-Reply-To: <20090804190803.9B752175A2@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
References: <Mail from 'David Andrews <dandrews@visi.com>
	<20090804190803.9B752175A2@britaine.cis.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <auto-000111248600@mailfront1.g2host.com>

At 02:08 PM 8/4/2009, Barry Finkel wrote:
>David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>
> >I have a problem, and don't know if there is an easy or viable
> >solution.  I run a bunch of lists for an organization, over 150
> >lists, about 80 percent public and 20 percent private.  Periodically
> >there are messages that need to go to everyone, or almost
> >everyone.  However, people belong to multiple lists so many people
> >get duplicate copies of the same message.
> >
> >Is there any way to send to everyone, or sub-sets of everyone?  Is it
> >possible to subscribe everybody to an announce-only list, at the same
> >time they subscribe to their chosen list or lists?  Not sure I want
> >that approach, but an option if possible.
>
>If I had to do this, I would do the following:
>
>1) Create a new Mailman list - all-subscribers.
>
>2) Make a list of all subscribers to all lists.  I already have
>    a shell script (with awk files) that produces a list every hour
>    that contains lines:
>
>          Tue Aug  4 13:00:01 CDT 2009
>          ----------
>          list1 user1 at example.com
>          list1 user2 at example.com
>          ----------
>          list2 user1 at example.com
>          list2 user3 at example.com
>          ----------
>
>    I use this file to see if a given address is subscribed to any
>    lists.
>
>3) Extract the e-mail addresses from that list, pipe through "uniq",
>    and save the file.  You could do special processing to remove
>    certain addresses from this file.
>
>4) Use that file to
>
>         ./sync_members -w=no -g=no -d=no -a=no -f  FILENAME all-subscribers
>
>    to synchronize (silently) the membership of the all-subscribers list,
>    which contains all the members of all the lists.


This was the only response I got, and appreciated.  Is this the only 
possible approach?  I am not sure I want to subscribe people to a 
list they didn't subscribe to, although I am considering it.  Any 
other approaches -- or do I have to wait to MM3 which is who knows when.

Dave



From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Aug  9 22:29:42 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 13:29:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate Messages
In-Reply-To: <auto-000111248600@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <PC1922009080913294208902b3ad124@msapiro>

David Andrews wrote:
>
>This was the only response I got, and appreciated.  Is this the only 
>possible approach?  I am not sure I want to subscribe people to a 
>list they didn't subscribe to, although I am considering it.  Any 
>other approaches -- or do I have to wait to MM3 which is who knows when.


You can see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/TIA9>, but the approach
there is essentially the same.

The alternative is to use Mailman's regular_exclude_lists feature
(under Non-digest options) as mentioned in the above FAQ, but with
150+ lists (or even merely a dozen), this probably isn't viable.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dandrews at visi.com  Mon Aug 10 02:33:36 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 19:33:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate Messages
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009080913294208902b3ad124@msapiro>
References: <auto-000111248600@mailfront1.g2host.com>
	<PC1922009080913294208902b3ad124@msapiro>
Message-ID: <auto-000113665203@mailfront2.g2host.com>

At 03:29 PM 8/9/2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>David Andrews wrote:
> >
> >This was the only response I got, and appreciated.  Is this the only
> >possible approach?  I am not sure I want to subscribe people to a
> >list they didn't subscribe to, although I am considering it.  Any
> >other approaches -- or do I have to wait to MM3 which is who knows when.
>
>
>You can see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/TIA9>, but the approach
>there is essentially the same.
>
>The alternative is to use Mailman's regular_exclude_lists feature
>(under Non-digest options) as mentioned in the above FAQ, but with
>150+ lists (or even merely a dozen), this probably isn't viable.
>

Mark:

The FAQ says:


a better umbrella list as long as you are not concerned about digest members.

Using the above example, create the list "Threesomes" with no 
members, and in Threesomes' Non-digest options -> regular_include_lists put

ThreeBlindMice at mylists.com
ThreeBears at mylists.com
ThreeMenNaTub at mylists.com

Then, a post to "Threesomes" will be sent to the regular (nondigest) 
members of the above three lists without duplication.

Above you say this approach may not be viable for me.  Is this 
because of the work involved in my entering and updating the list of lists
in regular_include_lists , or because of something else I am not 
aware of.  If it would work for me, I am willing to do the work -- I 
am not as technical as some, and wouldn't want to mess around with 
scripts unless I have to.  This approach would also allow me to have 
several versions of the almost-all-subscribers lists, including or 
excluding certain lists.


Thanks for your help as always!

Dave



>--
>Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>signature database 4320 (20090809) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com

From jjmckay at uic.edu  Sat Aug  8 01:20:05 2009
From: jjmckay at uic.edu (Jim McKay)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 18:20:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] address problem
Message-ID: <C6A66A5B-8B60-4C97-9BFE-E61B5E3AAB75@uic.edu>

I'm using

* Mailman 2.1.9.-4.e15.i386
* Redhat 5.3.03.i386
* sendmail 8.13.8.2.el5,i386

I'm experienced with Mailman with BSD for sometime (a couple of years)  
but the first time with Redhat on a completely different server.

For this example/problem,

my host is    wall
Domain is   ss.uic.edu
so I have    wall.ss.uic.edu

Sendmail is fine and emails come and go with mail sent and received  
from user at wall.ss.uic.edu

I've used RPM to install Mailman.

I've created a list  called techies with subscribers on everything  
from in-house to gmail.

When as a subscriber I send email to techies at wall.ss.uic.edu  the mail  
is  arrives at users inboxes as being from techies at ss.uic.edu with  
"wall" left off.

On the Mailman admin page for "Techies" , under "General Options", I  
have "Hostname this list prefers for email" set to wall.ss.uic.edu and  
it still leaves off wall.

I've been through mm_config.py and sendmail.cf for days and simply  
can't find what's wrong.

I can live with it if I just want to have broadcast lists but I also  
need to have lists where people can reply.

Any suggestions or ideas.  Thank you very much.

Best wishes and many thanks for your consideration.

Jim McKay
Digital Media Specialist
University of Illinois at Chicago College of Architecture and the Arts

From jodawi at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 03:42:00 2009
From: jodawi at gmail.com (John Williams)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 18:42:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom handler applied to digest tofilter
	excessive quoted text?
In-Reply-To: <PC192200908070828510968e176847b@msapiro>
References: <87ws5g9mu2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<PC192200908070828510968e176847b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <556907c50908081842p9ed12c1sa2c06f68c6bb7599@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 3:40 AM, <tanstaafl at libertytrek.org> wrote:

> By the way John... I'm guessing you sent your post twice becaqsue you
> didn't realize that when posting from your gmail account, you won't see
> your own posts? It considers the message you 'Sent' and  the one the
> list sends as 'duplicates', so hides (or deletes?) the second one (from
> the list). I really hate that about gmail...

No...first one didn't appear when checking online archives. I sent
without being subscribed to the list, intending to check the online
archives for answers. Waited a day, decided it had been silently
discarded, then joined list and sent again. Then both showed up, of
course. :)

-- 
John Williams
jodawi at gmail.com

From magannlee at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 21:45:56 2009
From: magannlee at gmail.com (Magann Orth)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:45:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Question - who can send to the list
Message-ID: <c2d22c0f0908091245g7f930553lffe35520d5f765df@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a way to make the list only allow people who are on the list to
send to the list?
Also, how do you change the default "reply to" the list moderator?

Magann Orth

From scott at 916networks.com  Sat Aug  8 00:40:32 2009
From: scott at 916networks.com (Scott Race)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 15:40:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with some messages being scrubbed
Message-ID: <D1BF7B57DCE278498A63B829F5559CCA3783EC329D@P3PW5EX1MB01.EX1.SECURESERVER.NET>

I am getting the following message in some of our posts, no content, just:

Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/gif
Size: 1994 bytes
Desc: image003.gif
There's a link to the attachment, image003.gif, which pulls up ok, but, no content is being delivered.

The list settings have filter_content set to No.

I read in another post that scrub_nondigest might be set to Yes, but I can't find the setting for that.  How would i find it, or where is the config file that holds this setting?   I looked and greped, couldn't find....

Mailman 2.1.5.

Thanks!
Scott

From vagamente at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 10:08:26 2009
From: vagamente at gmail.com (Massimiliano "vagamente")
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:08:26 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configure mailman inside a VPS
Message-ID: <396d8930908070108x4b8249bawc53c7f9695447459@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all...

Setting up mailman/postfix inside my ubuntu 8.10 server VPS, i think i
messed up all the config files trying to make it work.

Now i think i've messed'em up too much...

Here they are, if some of you could take a look:
. /etc/apache2/sites-available/mailman.conf : http://pastebin.com/f299879f1
. /etc/postfix/main.cf : http://pastebin.com/f65f9432f
. /etc/postfix/master.cf : http://pastebin.com/f56b257d7

I must say that VPS doesn't work as mailserver 'cause the mailboxes
are directly managed by the web-hoster.

Thank all of you for your great work

Massimiliano

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 10 05:53:58 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 20:53:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] address problem
In-Reply-To: <C6A66A5B-8B60-4C97-9BFE-E61B5E3AAB75@uic.edu>
Message-ID: <PC192200908092053580546d357f79c@msapiro>

Jim McKay wrote:

>I'm using
>
>* Mailman 2.1.9.-4.e15.i386
>* Redhat 5.3.03.i386
>* sendmail 8.13.8.2.el5,i386
>
>I'm experienced with Mailman with BSD for sometime (a couple of years)  
>but the first time with Redhat on a completely different server.
>
>For this example/problem,
>
>my host is    wall
>Domain is   ss.uic.edu
>so I have    wall.ss.uic.edu
>
>Sendmail is fine and emails come and go with mail sent and received  
>from user at wall.ss.uic.edu
>
>I've used RPM to install Mailman.
>
>I've created a list  called techies with subscribers on everything  
>from in-house to gmail.
>
>When as a subscriber I send email to techies at wall.ss.uic.edu  the mail  
>is  arrives at users inboxes as being from techies at ss.uic.edu with  
>"wall" left off.
>
>On the Mailman admin page for "Techies" , under "General Options", I  
>have "Hostname this list prefers for email" set to wall.ss.uic.edu and  
>it still leaves off wall.


If host_name is wall.ss.uic.edu, then that is what Mailman is using in
outbound mail and it is an outbound MTA that is stripping off 'wall'.

Also, there appear to be no public DNS records of any kind for
wall.ss.uic.edu or ss.uic.edu either for that matter. This could be
part of the problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 10 06:05:50 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 21:05:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate Messages
In-Reply-To: <auto-000113665203@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <PC192200908092105500578d357f7b4@msapiro>

David Andrews 
>
>At 03:29 PM 8/9/2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>You can see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/TIA9>, but the approach
>>there is essentially the same.
>>
>>The alternative is to use Mailman's regular_exclude_lists feature
>>(under Non-digest options) as mentioned in the above FAQ, but with
>>150+ lists (or even merely a dozen), this probably isn't viable.
>>
>
>Mark:
>
>The FAQ says:
>
>
>a better umbrella list as long as you are not concerned about digest members.
>
>Using the above example, create the list "Threesomes" with no 
>members, and in Threesomes' Non-digest options -> regular_include_lists put
>
>ThreeBlindMice at mylists.com
>ThreeBears at mylists.com
>ThreeMenNaTub at mylists.com
>
>Then, a post to "Threesomes" will be sent to the regular (nondigest) 
>members of the above three lists without duplication.
>
>Above you say this approach may not be viable for me.  Is this 
>because of the work involved in my entering and updating the list of lists
>in regular_include_lists , or because of something else I am not 
>aware of.


Actually, I retract what I said. I didn't carefully read that part of
the FAQ (which I wrote - how quickly we forget <sigh>) and I was
thinking of using regular_exclude_lists which is a way of avoiding
duplicates when messages are cross posted to multiple lists, but which
grows in complexity as the number of lists grows. But that isn't what
you want here.


>If it would work for me, I am willing to do the work -- I 
>am not as technical as some, and wouldn't want to mess around with 
>scripts unless I have to.  This approach would also allow me to have 
>several versions of the almost-all-subscribers lists, including or 
>excluding certain lists.


Yes, it would work, and the only issues are maintaining the list of
regular_include_lists in the super-list(s) and the fact that a post to
a super list won't reach anyone who is a digest subscriber on all the
sub lists of which she is a member.

So, if the digest issue is not a concern, it should work fine.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 10 06:11:14 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 21:11:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Question - who can send to the list
In-Reply-To: <c2d22c0f0908091245g7f930553lffe35520d5f765df@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC192200908092111140281d357f667@msapiro>

Magann Orth wrote:

>Is there a way to make the list only allow people who are on the list to
>send to the list?


Set Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> generic_nonmember_action in
the web admin interface to anything other than Accept.
	


>Also, how do you change the default "reply to" the list moderator?


See the settings under "Reply-To: header munging" on the General
Options page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 10 06:30:03 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 21:30:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with some messages being scrubbed
In-Reply-To: <D1BF7B57DCE278498A63B829F5559CCA3783EC329D@P3PW5EX1MB01.EX1.SECURESERVER.NET>
Message-ID: <PC1922009080921300302818a59eb1c@msapiro>

Scott Race wrote:

>I am getting the following message in some of our posts, no content, just:
>
>Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part --------------


This is a bug in your 2.1.5 version, long since fixed.


>A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>Name: not available
>Type: image/gif
>Size: 1994 bytes
>Desc: image003.gif
>There's a link to the attachment, image003.gif, which pulls up ok, but, no content is being delivered.
>
>The list settings have filter_content set to No.


This is a scrubber issue. It is independent of content filtering except
in that if you filtered the text/html part out of the
multipart/alternative part leaving only the text/plain part, it would
probably appear OK in the archive.


>I read in another post that scrub_nondigest might be set to Yes, but I can't find the setting for that.


Because it doesn't exist in 2.1.5, and if it were set in your case, it
would just break individual messages and mime digests as well as
archives and plain digests.

>Mailman 2.1.5.


If you are saying that this happens to individual messages and not to
just plain digests and archives, then this is not 'standard' 2.1.5,
and somehow Scrubber has been inserted into GLOBAL_PIPELINE either in
Defaults.py or mm_cfg.py or in a pipeline attribute of the list.

The real solution is to upgrade to a more recent Mailman that doesn't
have this Scrubber bug.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From scott at 916networks.com  Mon Aug 10 07:54:20 2009
From: scott at 916networks.com (Scott Race)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 22:54:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with some messages being scrubbed
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009080921300302818a59eb1c@msapiro>
References: <D1BF7B57DCE278498A63B829F5559CCA3783EC329D@P3PW5EX1MB01.EX1.SECURESERVER.NET>
	<PC1922009080921300302818a59eb1c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <D1BF7B57DCE278498A63B829F5559CCA378400AC51@P3PW5EX1MB01.EX1.SECURESERVER.NET>

Thanks for confirming Mark. I had read that this was a possible bug - so good to know that an upgrade/new install will likely cure it.

Would the workaround you describe involve setting:

convert_html_to_plaintext = 1
and
filter_mime_types = [add html/text]
?

One other question about upgrade/new install - I have read that upgrading an existing installation is rather difficult and might involve downtime, so the preferred method is to bring up a new server and move the lists over.  Is that correct?

Thanks again.
Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:30 PM
To: Scott Race; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with some messages being scrubbed

Scott Race wrote:

>I am getting the following message in some of our posts, no content, just:
>
>Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part --------------


This is a bug in your 2.1.5 version, long since fixed.


>A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>Name: not available
>Type: image/gif
>Size: 1994 bytes
>Desc: image003.gif
>There's a link to the attachment, image003.gif, which pulls up ok, but, no content is being delivered.
>
>The list settings have filter_content set to No.


This is a scrubber issue. It is independent of content filtering except
in that if you filtered the text/html part out of the
multipart/alternative part leaving only the text/plain part, it would
probably appear OK in the archive.


>I read in another post that scrub_nondigest might be set to Yes, but I can't find the setting for that.


Because it doesn't exist in 2.1.5, and if it were set in your case, it
would just break individual messages and mime digests as well as
archives and plain digests.

>Mailman 2.1.5.


If you are saying that this happens to individual messages and not to
just plain digests and archives, then this is not 'standard' 2.1.5,
and somehow Scrubber has been inserted into GLOBAL_PIPELINE either in
Defaults.py or mm_cfg.py or in a pipeline attribute of the list.

The real solution is to upgrade to a more recent Mailman that doesn't
have this Scrubber bug.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 10 16:53:49 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:53:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with some messages being scrubbed
In-Reply-To: <D1BF7B57DCE278498A63B829F5559CCA378400AC51@P3PW5EX1MB01.EX1.SECURESERVER.NET>
Message-ID: <PC1922009081007534904064484f447@msapiro>

Scott Race wrote:
>
>Would the workaround you describe involve setting:
>
>convert_html_to_plaintext = 1
>and
>filter_mime_types = [add html/text]
>?


Not exactly. the workaround may be to just add text/html to
filter_mime_types, but it depends if there is anything in
pass_mime_types. If you have the default setting of

multipart/mixed
multipart/alternative
text/plain

in pass_mime types, you will already remove everything that isn't
text/plain if you just turn on content filtering. Also, in 2.1.5, even
if both filter_mime_types and pass_mime_types are empty, meaning
nothing gets removed, a multipart/alternative part will still get
replaced by it's first alternative (this is a setting -
collapse_alternatives - in later versions, but in 2.1.5 it is always
done).

Thus, to do the minimal filtering that will avoid this bug, set

filter_content = 1
filter_mime_types = []
pass_mime_types = []
convert_html_to_plaintext = 0


>One other question about upgrade/new install - I have read that upgrading an existing installation is rather difficult and might involve downtime, so the preferred method is to bring up a new server and move the lists over.  Is that correct?


Upgrading from 2.1.5 to any more recent version is easy. It is much
easier than bringing up a new server and moving lists. There are
potential caveats regarding Python versions. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/pYA9>. Other than that, it depends how your
original Mailman was installed. If from source, the upgrade process is
to run configure with the same options as before (can be found in
config.log if you still have the original) and make. Then if all went
OK, stop Mailman, backup your current installation just in case, run
make install and start Mailman. I've done this dozens of times on a
production system without problems. It only takes a few minutes.

Upgrading from a packege should also be easy, but the details depend on
the package.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Tue Aug 11 00:45:43 2009
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:45:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved: password header!
In-Reply-To: <PC192200908062108240937294eee81@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C6A5F127.453F%jwblist3@olympus.net>




On 8/6/09 9:08 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Thus, the idea of allowing "[Approved: password]" in the subject header
> and removing only that text from the subject has appeal because it
> doesn't depend on any characteristics of the message body.

Won't work in an environment in which the message arrives with a DKIM
signature including the Subject: header and when enforces valid DKIM headers
inbound. (Or for a list going to "outside" subscribers, if any of them
insist on DKIM validation.)

Of course, it's very unlikely that approved header as first line of first
text part works in that environment either.

But Mailman already (by common configuration) munges Subject: headers.

When Office 2010 public beta arrives (or before if someone here has earlier
access) it would be nice to check whether Outlook 2010 has learned a
rational way to add custom headers.

  --John



From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Tue Aug 11 06:18:06 2009
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 00:18:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Corrupted archives ...
Message-ID: <4A80F0FE.7000705@wingfoot.org>

Hullo,

I'm running mailman-2.1.12, with the htdig patches on FreeBSD 7.0

I have a list with archives that are about 10 years old. The archive
mbox size is 175M.

I was alerted by a subscriber that the August 2009 archives list 128 "No
subject" emails that "look funny."

So I looked.. sure enough they're there. And they look something like
this when I click on a single email listed in the archives:

No subject

Mon Aug 10 18:53:40 EDT 2009

    * Previous message: [Redacted] Blah...
    * Next message: No subject
    * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:27:19 PST
X-Originating-IP: [63.11.227.157]
From: "redacted" <redacted_at...>
To: redacted
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:27:19 PST
Mailing-List: contact redacted
X-Mailing-List: redacted
Precedence: bulk
List-Help: <http://www.example.com/redacted/info.html>,
  <mailto:redacted at example.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:redacted-unsubscribe at example.com>
List-Archive: <http://www.example.com/redacted/>
Reply-To: redacted
Subject: [Redacted] Redacted
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Status: RO
Content-Length: 7352
Lines: 174

(body of email starts here)

>From Redacted <redacted at u...> Wed Dec 15 00:40:19 1999
Delivered-To: redacted
Received: (listserv 1.291); by f7; 15 Dec 1999 08:43:59 -0000
Delivered-To: redacted
Date: 15 Dec 99 03:44:15 EST
From: Redacted <redacted at u...>
To: redacted
X-Mailing-List: redacted
Precedence: bulk
List-Help: <http://www.example.com/redacted/info.html>,
  <mailto:redacted at example.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:redacted-unsubscribe at example.com>
List-Archive: <http://www.example.com/redacted/>
Reply-To: redacted
Subject: [Redacted] RedactedMIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

(body of email starts here...)

(another email starts here, as above...)

(end of example)

Everything looks fine if I use mutt -f listname.mbox in the private
archives directory for the list.

Has anyone had problems like this? My GoogleFu is failing me, or at
least isn't showing me anything like this.

Thanks in advance!
--Glenn

From terri at zone12.com  Tue Aug 11 07:18:45 2009
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 01:18:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Corrupted archives ...
In-Reply-To: <4A80F0FE.7000705@wingfoot.org>
References: <4A80F0FE.7000705@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <4A80FF35.2000507@zone12.com>

Glenn Sieb wrote:
> I have a list with archives that are about 10 years old. The archive
> mbox size is 175M.
> 
> I was alerted by a subscriber that the August 2009 archives list 128 "No
> subject" emails that "look funny."
[snip]
> From: "redacted" <redacted_at...>
> To: redacted
> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:27:19 PST
> 
> (body of email starts here)
> 
>>From Redacted <redacted at u...> Wed Dec 15 00:40:19 1999
> Delivered-To: redacted

Have you tried running bin/cleanarch and then rerunning bin/arch to 
regenerate the messages?  It's possible what you're seeing could be 
caused by messed up From lines in your old mbox file (used by the 
archiver to determine the start of messages).  Mutt may just have a more 
forgiving parser.

Be warned, though, if you regenerate the entire archive, then the links 
in your archive will change (i.e. old posts that people have linked will 
no longer be in the same spot).

  Terri


From a.cappelli at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 10:00:29 2009
From: a.cappelli at gmail.com (Andrea Cappelli)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:00:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Running two list with same email prefix
Message-ID: <1249977629.13368.36.camel@vulcan>

Hi all,
I'm running a mail server with Debian Lenny, MTA is Postfix and i will
use postfix-to-mailma.py script to run list

I would set up Mailman for running mailing list with same email prefix
on different domains, obvious with different list names

For example we have ml.domain1.com and ml.domain2.net, i would like to
have

LISTADDRESS 			LISTNAME
tech at ml.domain1.com 		tech-ml.domain1.com
tech at ml.domain.2.net 		tech-ml.domain2.net

In this way i can have the same address on differente domains and
Mailman (my version is 2.1.11) can distinguish between lists because the
list name is different. The list name will be also used to access web
interface, so we have

http://ml.domain1.com/mailman/admin/tech-ml.domain1.com
http://ml.domain2.net/mailman/admin/tech-ml.domain2.net

Is possible to accomplish this task? Any idea?



From andale at excaliburworld.com  Tue Aug 11 02:43:49 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (andale at excaliburworld.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:43:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
Message-ID: <p06240813c6a66a9d5b26@[64.142.30.27]>

Hi All,

I am a list administrator for a number of mailing lists hosted on 
lists.sonic.net.  The folks at sonic are great, except they really 
don't fully understand Mailman, so I am hoping to get a few of my 
issues resolved here.

All my lists are pretty standard (aka, I don't need any help for 
them), except for one.  One of the lists was recently migrated from 
Autoshare (finally got to say goodbye to Mac OS 9, the only OS 
Autoshare runs on).  There are certain features of Autoshare that are 
awesome, but I cannot figure out how to configure Mailman to support 
these features.

In a nutshell, this list is a combination announcement list and tech 
support list, and the list contributions are modified by the list 
administrator on a regular basis (either to remove excessive text 
from previous posts, add signatures, remove profane or rude language, 
and/or remove sensitive data that is commonly posted in error on our 
list).  The way it worked on Autoshare, and they way I want it to 
work on Mailman, is like this:

All posts go directly to the moderator (not the mailman "list 
moderator", because that puts a bunch of extraneous pre-text in the 
email that I don't want to have to wade through on every post).  Upon 
acceptance of the post, modified or not, I then redirect the post to 
the actual mailing list.  Redirect means the "TO:" header remains in 
tact as the original poster, and the moderator email is the 
"envelope" sender.  Autoshare recognized the envelope sender and 
passed the post through to the list immediately.

I have been unable to recreate this configuration on Mailman, but I'm 
hoping that there is a way to do it.  I have successfully set up the 
list such that the Reply-To goes to the moderator.  This sends the 
post, in tact, with no extraneous pre-text, directly to the 
moderator.  The problems I'm having are as follows:

1. The reply-to does not seem to work for digest members.  Digest 
members are reporting that the reply-to of the digests goes to the 
list (which then creates the moderator email text before sending to 
the moderator).  How do I get the reply-to for digest members to work 
the same as non-digest?

2. For members whose email clients use buttons based upon email 
headers - specifically, list-id - they click on Reply to List and it 
goes to the wrong place.  I would either like to change the list-id 
value, or remove it entirely.  Is there a way to do that?

3. When I redirect the modified/approved post to the list, I want the 
TO field to maintain the original poster's email, and the moderator's 
email will be the envelope sender.  I would like the Mailman list to 
recognize the envelope sender to authorize immediate distribution of 
the post.  Currently, however, it holds the post for moderator 
approval.  Is there a way to do this?

4. Lastly, the web archives created by Autoshare automatically 
created clickable HTML links for all HTML URL's in posts.  The 
Mailman archives are all unclickable plain text URL's.  Note, I want 
the list to remain a plain text list, as it was on Autoshare, but I'd 
still like Mailman to build HTML code to make the links active in the 
web archive.  Is there a way to do this?


I really appreciate any help in this matter.

Bill C.

From ejs at shubes.net  Mon Aug 10 20:04:29 2009
From: ejs at shubes.net (Eric Shubert)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:04:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Users' names on roster page
Message-ID: <4A80612D.60507@shubes.net>

I would like to see the users' names (which I know are optional) on the 
List Subscribers page (http://domain/mailman/roster/list). Is there an 
option for this that I missed, or would it require a program change?
TIA
-- 
-Eric 'shubes'

From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Tue Aug 11 20:02:55 2009
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:02:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing not working
Message-ID: <1250013775.4803.26.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>

I have a list (several lists, actually) running on Mailman 2.1.11 and it
looks as if bounce processing is broken.  On the list in question, the
following are set:

bounce_processing = Yes
bounce_score_threshold = 1.0
bounce_info_stale_after = 1
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 0
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval = 7

/var/lib/mailman/logs/bounce shows many entry lines of this form, in
sets of 3 as shown below:

Aug 11 12:35:24 2009 (19017) listname: user at hotmail.com bounce score: 1.0
Aug 11 12:35:24 2009 (19017) listname: user at hotmail.com disabling due to bounce score 1.0 >= 1.0
Aug 11 12:35:24 2009 (19017) listname: user at hotmail.com deleted after exhausting notices

However, looking at the subscription roster or grepping for
user at hotmail.com using list_members indicates that the user is still
subscribed, with no nomail flag set, and no notice is sent to the list
owner.

I'm running mailman on Gentoo Linux which uses:

PREFIX          = '/usr/lib64/mailman'
VAR_PREFIX      = '/var/lib/mailman'

Does anyone have any idea how to troubleshoot this?

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | SUPPORT NETWORK NEUTRALITY
FMP Computer Services | --------------------------
512-259-1190          | Boycott Yahoo, RoadRunner, AOL
http://www.fmp.com    | and Verison


From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Wed Aug 12 04:49:33 2009
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:49:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing not working - Update
In-Reply-To: <1250013775.4803.26.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
References: <1250013775.4803.26.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
Message-ID: <1250045373.6978.9.camel@localhost.localdomain>

I restarted (twice) the qrunner suite of processes from the system
command line using the system init scripts (/etc/init.d/mailman) with
two noticeable results.

First, an egregious number of "Bounce action notifications" and "list
unsubscribe notifications" went out on bounces for lists on which I'm
listed as an owner, including the one that brought this problem to my
attention.  Some notifications date back a couple of months so this is
apparently a problem of some duration.

Second, many subscribers to the problem list received multiple copies of
the most recently queued post.  Could this be because I stopped and
restarted the qrunners several times?  Why would this cause multiple
copies to be sent?

I should also note that the bouncing subscribers were _still_ not
unsubscribed, nor was the nomail flag set for those for whom a soft
bounce was received.

All qrunner processes were (and are still) running, or at least
according to the process table.  Can these processes crash, or go
zombie?  If so, what can I do to prevent this?  If I need to restart the
qrunners, how do I avoid causing multiple copies of posts to be sent
out?

On Tue, 2009-08-11 at 13:02 -0500, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> I have a list (several lists, actually) running on Mailman 2.1.11 and it
> looks as if bounce processing is broken.  On the list in question, the
> following are set:
> 
> bounce_processing = Yes
> bounce_score_threshold = 1.0
> bounce_info_stale_after = 1
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 0
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval = 7
> 
> /var/lib/mailman/logs/bounce shows many entry lines of this form, in
> sets of 3 as shown below:
> 
> Aug 11 12:35:24 2009 (19017) listname: user at hotmail.com bounce score: 1.0
> Aug 11 12:35:24 2009 (19017) listname: user at hotmail.com disabling due to bounce score 1.0 >= 1.0
> Aug 11 12:35:24 2009 (19017) listname: user at hotmail.com deleted after exhausting notices
> 
> However, looking at the subscription roster or grepping for
> user at hotmail.com using list_members indicates that the user is still
> subscribed, with no nomail flag set, and no notice is sent to the list
> owner.
> 
> I'm running mailman on Gentoo Linux which uses:
> 
> PREFIX          = '/usr/lib64/mailman'
> VAR_PREFIX      = '/var/lib/mailman'
> 
> Does anyone have any idea how to troubleshoot this?
> 

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Never expect the people who caused a problem
FMP Computer Services |  to solve it."  - Albert Einstein
512-259-1190          |        
http://www.fmp.com    |


From measl at mfn.org  Wed Aug 12 05:18:14 2009
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:18:14 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I kill a message in the middle of being
	distributed?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908112215410.7084@mx1.mfn.org>


I just had someone post a few dozen 5mb files - since thats the list max 
size (not that anyone's ever sent even ONE of those before!) - and 
everything is clogged.  I want to clear *everything* and just come up 
empty.  I cant find this in the wiki.

Thanks!

-- 
Yours,
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin_at_mfn.org
0xpgp_key_mgmt_is_broken-dont_bother

"Never belong to any party, always oppose privileged classes and public
plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to
the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always
be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by
predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty."

Joseph Pulitzer
1907 Speech

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 12 06:11:00 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:11:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I kill a message in the middle of
	beingdistributed?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908112215410.7084@mx1.mfn.org>
Message-ID: <PC192200908112111000734d5679c5e@msapiro>

J.A. Terranson wrote:
>
>I just had someone post a few dozen 5mb files - since thats the list max 
>size (not that anyone's ever sent even ONE of those before!) - and 
>everything is clogged.  I want to clear *everything* and just come up 
>empty.  I cant find this in the wiki.

Stop Mailman.

Look at Mailman's 'in' and 'out' queues. You can examine queue entries
with bin/dumpdb or bin/show_qfiles, although you can probably identify
the offenders by size if they are there.

Remove or move aside any offending queue entries and start Mailman.

But, I suspect the messages have long since been delivered to the MTA,
and any removal will have to be done there. How to do that depends on
your MTA.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From measl at mfn.org  Wed Aug 12 06:43:31 2009
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:43:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I kill a message in the middle of
 beingdistributed?
In-Reply-To: <PC192200908112111000734d5679c5e@msapiro>
References: <PC192200908112111000734d5679c5e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908112341350.7084@mx1.mfn.org>


On Tue, 11 Aug 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Stop Mailman.

Done before I wrote.  MTA down as well.
 
> Look at Mailman's 'in' and 'out' queues.

# bin/show_qfiles ./qfiles/in
====================> ./qfiles/in
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/show_qfiles", line 95, in <module>
    main()
  File "bin/show_qfiles", line 81, in main
    fp = open(filename)
IOError: [Errno 21] Is a directory


-- 
Yours,
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin_at_mfn.org
0xpgp_key_mgmt_is_broken-dont_bother

"Never belong to any party, always oppose privileged classes and public
plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to
the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always
be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by
predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty."

Joseph Pulitzer
1907 Speech

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Aug 12 06:55:13 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:55:13 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Mailman - a few questions
In-Reply-To: <p06240813c6a66a9d5b26@[64.142.30.27]>
References: <p06240813c6a66a9d5b26@[64.142.30.27]>
Message-ID: <871vnhpr66.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

andale at excaliburworld.com writes:

 > All posts go directly to the moderator (not the mailman "list 
 > moderator", because that puts a bunch of extraneous pre-text in the 
 > email that I don't want to have to wade through on every post).  Upon 
 > acceptance of the post, modified or not, I then redirect the post to 
 > the actual mailing list.

This can be done by setting up aliases as follows (pseudo-syntax, your
mileage will vary):

foo-list:           moderator at example.com
foo-list-moderated: | mailman post foo-list

That requires modifying the mailman aliases in the MTA manually,
though.  And the moderator needs to know to send moderated posts to
foo-list-moderated, and will need software capable of editing and
resending without changing headers that the moderator doesn't want
changed.

 > Autoshare recognized the envelope sender and passed the post
 > through to the list immediately.

Recent mailman recognizes envelope sender for the "authorized
posters".  You might want to screen out cases where the From spoofs
the moderator using the spam filters because the test is "from OR
sender OR envelope sender IS IN authorized-senders".

 > This sends the post, in tact, with no extraneous pre-text, directly
 > to the moderator.

Ah, so the moderator already has an MUA that is capable of doing what
is needed.  That's a relief. :-)

 > The problems I'm having are as follows:
 > 
 > 1. The reply-to does not seem to work for digest members.

I'll leave that to someone more familiar with the code.

 > 2. For members whose email clients use buttons based upon email 
 > headers - specifically, list-id - they click on Reply to List and it 
 > goes to the wrong place.  I would either like to change the list-id 
 > value, or remove it entirely.  Is there a way to do that?

IMO it is preferable to reroute the workflow using aliases as
described above.  That will fix your digest problem too.

That said, the option you need is on the admin page, near the bottom.
Try disabling inclusion of the "List-Post" header.  If that doesn't
work, disable inclusion of the "RFC 2369" headers, too.

 > 3. I would like the Mailman list to recognize the envelope sender
 >    to authorize immediate distribution of the post.

Yes, this is possible.  There's a FAQ on this.  Somebody else will
give details shortly, I suppose.

A second option here is to use the Approved: header or pseudo-header.
Many MUAs can be set to add these automatically, YMMV.

 > 4. Lastly, the web archives created by Autoshare automatically 
 > created clickable HTML links for all HTML URL's in posts.  The 
 > Mailman archives are all unclickable plain text URL's.  Note, I want 
 > the list to remain a plain text list, as it was on Autoshare, but I'd 
 > still like Mailman to build HTML code to make the links active in the 
 > web archive.  Is there a way to do this?

I don't think Pipermail (the default archiver bundled with Mailman)
can do it at all, but it is possible to use external archivers such as
MHonArc.  This requires substantial effort and cooperation from the
list host admins, though.  There are also third-party archiving
services.  Again, see the FAQ.

Sorry not to be of more help directly, but hope it is of some help to
know that there is a source of information....




From fmouse at fmp.com  Tue Aug 11 22:59:45 2009
From: fmouse at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:59:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing not working - Update
In-Reply-To: <1250013775.4803.26.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
References: <1250013775.4803.26.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
Message-ID: <1250024385.4803.62.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>

I restarted (twice) the qrunner suite of processes from the system
command line using the system init scripts (/etc/init.d/mailman) with
two noticeable results.

First, an egregious number of "Bounce action notifications" and "list
unsubscribe notifications" went out on bounces for lists on which I'm
listed as an owner, including the one that brought this problem to my
attention.  Some notifications date back a couple of months so this is
apparently a problem of some duration.

Second, many subscribers to the problem list received multiple copies of
the most recently queued post.  Could this be because I stopped and
restarted the qrunners several times?  Why would this cause multiple
copies to be sent?

I should also note that the bouncing subscribers were _still_ not
unsubscribed, nor was the nomail flag set for those for whom a soft
bounce was received.

All qrunner processes were (and are still) running, or at least
according to the process table.  Can these processes crash?  If so, what
can I do to prevent this?  If I need to restart the qrunners, how do I
avoid causing multiple copies of posts to be sent out?

On Tue, 2009-08-11 at 13:02 -0500, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> I have a list (several lists, actually) running on Mailman 2.1.11 and it
> looks as if bounce processing is broken.  On the list in question, the
> following are set:
> 
> bounce_processing = Yes
> bounce_score_threshold = 1.0
> bounce_info_stale_after = 1
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 0
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval = 7
> 
> /var/lib/mailman/logs/bounce shows many entry lines of this form, in
> sets of 3 as shown below:
> 
> Aug 11 12:35:24 2009 (19017) listname: user at hotmail.com bounce score: 1.0
> Aug 11 12:35:24 2009 (19017) listname: user at hotmail.com disabling due to bounce score 1.0 >= 1.0
> Aug 11 12:35:24 2009 (19017) listname: user at hotmail.com deleted after exhausting notices
> 
> However, looking at the subscription roster or grepping for
> user at hotmail.com using list_members indicates that the user is still
> subscribed, with no nomail flag set, and no notice is sent to the list
> owner.
> 
> I'm running mailman on Gentoo Linux which uses:
> 
> PREFIX          = '/usr/lib64/mailman'
> VAR_PREFIX      = '/var/lib/mailman'
> 
> Does anyone have any idea how to troubleshoot this?
> 
-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Everything works if you let it"
FMP Computer Services |   (The Roadie)
512-259-1190          |
http://www.fmp.com    |


From measl at mfn.org  Wed Aug 12 07:15:18 2009
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:15:18 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fixed (never mind) WAS: How do I kill a message...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908112215410.7084@mx1.mfn.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908112215410.7084@mx1.mfn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908120013490.7084@mx1.mfn.org>


On Tue, 11 Aug 2009, J.A. Terranson wrote:

I realized the whats/wheres/hows before you could fix my deficiency :-)

only about 15% got out, but Im going to hear about it tomorrow :-(

Thanks, as always.  You guys are really great!

//Alif

-- 
Yours,
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin_at_mfn.org
0xpgp_key_mgmt_is_broken-dont_bother

"Never belong to any party, always oppose privileged classes and public
plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to
the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always
be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by
predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty."

Joseph Pulitzer
1907 Speech

From measl at mfn.org  Wed Aug 12 07:35:24 2009
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:35:24 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New,
 odd issue... WAS: Fixed (never mind) WAS: How do I kill a message...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908120013490.7084@mx1.mfn.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908112215410.7084@mx1.mfn.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0908120013490.7084@mx1.mfn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908120033380.7084@mx1.mfn.org>

yOn Wed, 12 Aug 2009, J.A. Terranson wrote:

> I realized the whats/wheres/hows before you could fix my deficiency :-)
> 
> only about 15% got out, but Im going to hear about it tomorrow :-(
> 
> Thanks, as always.  You guys are really great!
> 
> //Alif

I have four lists, yet three of them are OK, thie first is giving errors, 
but not in the error file.  Ideads>  When I browse to it it sits 
*forever*, then said Opps, we had na error! Ichedked the error file, and 
nothing...

-- 
Yours,
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin_at_mfn.org
0xpgp_key_mgmt_is_broken-dont_bother

"Never belong to any party, always oppose privileged classes and public
plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to
the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always
be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by
predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty."

Joseph Pulitzer
1907 Speech

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 12 16:05:54 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:05:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Corrupted archives ...
In-Reply-To: <4A80F0FE.7000705@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <PC19220090812070554043752ca7beb@msapiro>

Glenn Sieb wrote:
>
>I'm running mailman-2.1.12, with the htdig patches on FreeBSD 7.0
>
>I have a list with archives that are about 10 years old. The archive
>mbox size is 175M.
>
>I was alerted by a subscriber that the August 2009 archives list 128 "No
>subject" emails that "look funny."
>
>So I looked.. sure enough they're there. And they look something like
>this when I click on a single email listed in the archives:
>
>No subject
>
>Mon Aug 10 18:53:40 EDT 2009
>
>    * Previous message: [Redacted] Blah...
>    * Next message: No subject
>    * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>
>Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:27:19 PST
>X-Originating-IP: [63.11.227.157]
>From: "redacted" <redacted_at...>
>To: redacted
>Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:27:19 PST
>Mailing-List: contact redacted
>X-Mailing-List: redacted
>Precedence: bulk
>List-Help: <http://www.example.com/redacted/info.html>,
>  <mailto:redacted at example.com>
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:redacted-unsubscribe at example.com>
>List-Archive: <http://www.example.com/redacted/>
>Reply-To: redacted
>Subject: [Redacted] Redacted
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Status: RO
>Content-Length: 7352
>Lines: 174
>
>(body of email starts here)
>
>>From Redacted <redacted at u...> Wed Dec 15 00:40:19 1999
>Delivered-To: redacted
>Received: (listserv 1.291); by f7; 15 Dec 1999 08:43:59 -0000
>Delivered-To: redacted
>Date: 15 Dec 99 03:44:15 EST
>From: Redacted <redacted at u...>
>To: redacted
>X-Mailing-List: redacted
>Precedence: bulk
>List-Help: <http://www.example.com/redacted/info.html>,
>  <mailto:redacted at example.com>
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:redacted-unsubscribe at example.com>
>List-Archive: <http://www.example.com/redacted/>
>Reply-To: redacted
>Subject: [Redacted] RedactedMIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>(body of email starts here...)
>
>(another email starts here, as above...)
>
>(end of example)
>
>Everything looks fine if I use mutt -f listname.mbox in the private
>archives directory for the list.
>
>Has anyone had problems like this? My GoogleFu is failing me, or at
>least isn't showing me anything like this.


Do you see these Dec. 1999 messages when you look with Mutt?

There is a problem with a Debian patch, but the symptom is somewhat
different, and you're on FreeBSD anyway, so I don't think this is it.

It looks like someone or some script ran bin/arch on Mon Aug 10
18:53:40 EDT 2009 (and possibly at other times) with some spurious
input, but I'm not sure what that input would be. The puzzling part is
the "Previous/Next/Sorted" header which only appears in the periodic
index files.

As Terry suggests, you could run bin/cleanarch as an additional
test/correction on the listname.mbox. There may be unescaped "From "
in message bodies that didn't confuse Mutt or that you didn't notice
with Mutt, and then run bin/arch --wipe to rebuild the archive. But
also be aware as Terry says that this may renumber messages and break
saved links to archived messages.

An alternative alternative is to just remove 2009-August/,
2009-August.txt and 2009-August.txt.gz (if any) from
archives/private/listname/ and then run bin/arch (without --wipe) with
input just consisting of the Aug, 1999 portion of listname.mbox.

But the real questions are how did this happen; do the 128 "messages"
all have Mon Aug 10 18:53:40 EDT 2009 timestamps or do they have
different timestamps, and what may have been done at that/those times?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 12 17:24:50 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:24:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Running two list with same email prefix
In-Reply-To: <1249977629.13368.36.camel@vulcan>
Message-ID: <PC1922009081208245009213a32cc4b@msapiro>

Andrea Cappelli wrote:

>I'm running a mail server with Debian Lenny, MTA is Postfix and i will
>use postfix-to-mailma.py script to run list
>
>I would set up Mailman for running mailing list with same email prefix
>on different domains, obvious with different list names
>
>For example we have ml.domain1.com and ml.domain2.net, i would like to
>have
>
>LISTADDRESS 			LISTNAME
>tech at ml.domain1.com 		tech-ml.domain1.com
>tech at ml.domain.2.net 		tech-ml.domain2.net
>
>In this way i can have the same address on differente domains and
>Mailman (my version is 2.1.11) can distinguish between lists because the
>list name is different. The list name will be also used to access web
>interface, so we have
>
>http://ml.domain1.com/mailman/admin/tech-ml.domain1.com
>http://ml.domain2.net/mailman/admin/tech-ml.domain2.net
>
>Is possible to accomplish this task? Any idea?


Yes, it is possible to do this. What you describe is almost exactly
what cPanel does in their modified Mailman. There are other patches
around, but IMO, none are totally satisfactory. At least one user has
recently posted that he is working on his own implementation.

This feature, but not necessarily this implementation, will be in MM 3.

The main thing you need to do is arange for mail delivery
(postfix-to-mailman.py in your case) to deliver mail addressed to
list at example.com, list-bounces at example.com, etc. and also
list-bounces+xxx at example.com and list-confirm+xxx at example.com to the
appropriate list-example.com list.

Then the fun begins. If you want the 'correct' address in the List-*
headers, etc., that's a patch. Probably just to
MailList.getListAddress().

If you are willing to use the list-example.com names for the web
interface and elsewhere, that may be enough, but you will undoubtedly
discover other things that need to be 'fixed'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 12 17:44:16 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:44:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Users' names on roster page
In-Reply-To: <4A80612D.60507@shubes.net>
Message-ID: <PC192200908120844160468fdb2b224@msapiro>

Eric Shubert wrote:

>I would like to see the users' names (which I know are optional) on the 
>List Subscribers page (http://domain/mailman/roster/list). Is there an 
>option for this that I missed, or would it require a program change?


It's in Mailman 2.2 (not released yet). There is a 2.1 patch
(apparently reversed) at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=932383&group_id=103&atid=300103>
and the 2.2 change (slightly different) is at
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.2/revision/1034>.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 12 17:56:47 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:56:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing not working
In-Reply-To: <1250013775.4803.26.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
Message-ID: <PC192200908120856470625b4b4a7a0@msapiro>

Lindsay Haisley <fmouse-mailman at fmp.com>
   Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:02:55 -0500
     To: mailman-users at python.org
     Cc: Slim Richey <slim at ridgerunner.com>

>I have a list (several lists, actually) running on Mailman 2.1.11 and it
>looks as if bounce processing is broken.  On the list in question, the
>following are set:
>
>bounce_processing = Yes
>bounce_score_threshold = 1.0
>bounce_info_stale_after = 1
>bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 0
>bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval = 7
>
>/var/lib/mailman/logs/bounce shows many entry lines of this form, in
>sets of 3 as shown below:
>
>Aug 11 12:35:24 2009 (19017) listname: user at hotmail.com bounce score: 1.0
>Aug 11 12:35:24 2009 (19017) listname: user at hotmail.com disabling due to bounce score 1.0 >= 1.0
>Aug 11 12:35:24 2009 (19017) listname: user at hotmail.com deleted after exhausting notices
>
>However, looking at the subscription roster or grepping for
>user at hotmail.com using list_members indicates that the user is still
>subscribed, with no nomail flag set, and no notice is sent to the list
>owner.


This is a bug introduced in 2.1.11 and fixed in 2.1.12.

You should be seeing errors in Mailman's error log too.

The attached Bouncer_patch.txt will fix it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: Bouncer_patch.txt
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20090812/b82f9101/attachment.txt>

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 12 18:59:11 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:59:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I kill a message in the middle
	ofbeingdistributed?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908112341350.7084@mx1.mfn.org>
Message-ID: <PC1922009081209591107509ea62479@msapiro>

J.A. Terranson wrote:
>
># bin/show_qfiles ./qfiles/in
>====================> ./qfiles/in
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "bin/show_qfiles", line 95, in <module>
>    main()
>  File "bin/show_qfiles", line 81, in main
>    fp = open(filename)
>IOError: [Errno 21] Is a directory


bin/show_qfiles takes file arguments, not directories. You could do

bin/show_qfiles ./qfiles/in/*

but it would probably be good to do

ls ./qfiles/in/

first to verify there are files there to show.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 12 19:01:48 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:01:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New,
	odd issue... WAS: Fixed (never mind) WAS: How do I kill a message...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908120033380.7084@mx1.mfn.org>
Message-ID: <PC1922009081210014808591ba1694b@msapiro>

J.A. Terranson wrote:
>
>I have four lists, yet three of them are OK, thie first is giving errors, 
>but not in the error file.  Ideads>  When I browse to it it sits 
>*forever*, then said Opps, we had na error! Ichedked the error file, and 
>nothing...


Check for stale locks. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/noA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 12 18:41:33 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:41:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing not working - Update
In-Reply-To: <1250045373.6978.9.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC19220090812094133003130a23840@msapiro>

Lindsay Haisley wrote:

>I restarted (twice) the qrunner suite of processes from the system
>command line using the system init scripts (/etc/init.d/mailman) with
>two noticeable results.
>
>First, an egregious number of "Bounce action notifications" and "list
>unsubscribe notifications" went out on bounces for lists on which I'm
>listed as an owner, including the one that brought this problem to my
>attention.  Some notifications date back a couple of months so this is
>apparently a problem of some duration.


I would have to see the /etc/init.d/mailman script to know for sure,
but I'm guessing there is something in it that recovers old, stale
bounce-events-ppppp.pck files. These files were left behind with the
offending bounces when the 2.1.11 bug threw the exception that caused
BounceRunner to die without saving the updated list with the bouncing
member removed.

Note that this bug, addressed in my earlier reply, only occurs when
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 0.


>Second, many subscribers to the problem list received multiple copies of
>the most recently queued post.  Could this be because I stopped and
>restarted the qrunners several times?  Why would this cause multiple
>copies to be sent?


Yes, it could be. You stopped Mailman which signalled OutgoingRunner to
stop in the middle of delivering the post. If somehow OutgoingRunner
was SIGKILL'd, it would have stopped mid-delivery and when mailman
restarted, the backup out queue entry was recovered and the post was
delivered to all list members, some of whom had been delivered before.
However this is not what normally happens. It is supposed to be
SIGTERM'd and finish it's current delivery. Perhaps there's something
in the init.d script that will SIGKILL it if it doesn't stop soon
enough, or perhaps Mailman was restarted before OutgoingRunner
finished and the new OutgoingRunner 'recovered' the old runner's
backup queue entry, but this would result in everyone receiving a
duplicate unless something outbound of Mailman dropped the duplicate
message.


>I should also note that the bouncing subscribers were _still_ not
>unsubscribed, nor was the nomail flag set for those for whom a soft
>bounce was received.


This is the 2.1.11 bug addressed in my earlier reply.


>All qrunner processes were (and are still) running, or at least
>according to the process table.  Can these processes crash?  If so, what
>can I do to prevent this?  If I need to restart the qrunners, how do I
>avoid causing multiple copies of posts to be sent out?


Yes, qrunners can die. Just look at Mailman's qrunner and error logs.
Normally, when a qrunner dies, it is automatically restarted by
mailmanctl up to 10 restarts.

Duplicates are a pain, and every effort is taken to avoid or minimize
them, but if a runner dies, due to an uncaught exception, the message
is normally shunted and requires manual action to reprocess, and even
this normally doesn't result in duplicates.

Duplicates can occur when a runner is killed asynchronously by a system
crash, power failure or perhaps in your case, by your init.d script,
but normally, a simple "mailmanctl stop|restart" should just signal
the runners, and they shouldn't stop until finished with the current
task.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Wed Aug 12 20:02:42 2009
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:02:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing not working - Update
In-Reply-To: <PC19220090812094133003130a23840@msapiro>
References: <PC19220090812094133003130a23840@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1250100162.4803.95.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>

Mark, thanks for your knowledgeable and _very_ helpful post!

On Wed, 2009-08-12 at 09:41 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> >First, an egregious number of "Bounce action notifications" and "list
> >unsubscribe notifications" went out on bounces for lists on which I'm
> >listed as an owner, including the one that brought this problem to my
> >attention.  Some notifications date back a couple of months so this is
> >apparently a problem of some duration.
> 
> 
> I would have to see the /etc/init.d/mailman script to know for sure,
> but I'm guessing there is something in it that recovers old, stale
> bounce-events-ppppp.pck files. These files were left behind with the
> offending bounces when the 2.1.11 bug threw the exception that caused
> BounceRunner to die without saving the updated list with the bouncing
> member removed.

The Gentoo init script for mailman is pretty simple.  It executes, as
user 'mailman', "mailmanctl -s start", "mailmanctl stop" and "mailmanctl
restart" for the standard init script arguments of start, stop and
restart.  That's all.

> Note that this bug, addressed in my earlier reply, only occurs when
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 0.

I found a thread on the Gentoo bug reporting list which discusses
compatibility issues between Mailman 2.1.11 and Python 2.6, also
possibly 2.5 (which I'm running on these boxes).  Gentoo is distributing
mm 2.1.11 with stable as of yesterday, and 2.1.12 with unstable, but
they're apparently pushing to stabilize 2.1.12 ahead of schedule since
Python 2.6 is now stable in the distribution.  I expect this to happen

I installed Mailman 2.1.12 from Gentoo unstable and at least the problem
with non-removal of bouncing addresses seems to have gone away.  Perhaps
the qrunner processes will also be more stable.

> Duplicates can occur when a runner is killed asynchronously by a system
> crash, power failure or perhaps in your case, by your init.d script,
> but normally, a simple "mailmanctl stop|restart" should just signal
> the runners, and they shouldn't stop until finished with the current
> task.

Apparently something strange went down, since all the init.d script does
is execute mailmanctl, as noted above.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "The difference between a duck is because
FMP Computer Services |    one leg is both the same"
512-259-1190          |     - Anonymous
http://www.fmp.com    |


From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Wed Aug 12 20:30:50 2009
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:30:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing not working - Update
In-Reply-To: <1250100162.4803.95.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
References: <PC19220090812094133003130a23840@msapiro>
	<1250100162.4803.95.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
Message-ID: <1250101850.4803.98.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>

On Wed, 2009-08-12 at 13:02 -0500, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> I found a thread on the Gentoo bug reporting list which discusses
> compatibility issues between Mailman 2.1.11 and Python 2.6, also
> possibly 2.5 (which I'm running on these boxes).  Gentoo is
> distributing mm 2.1.11 with stable as of yesterday, and 2.1.12 with
> unstable, but they're apparently pushing to stabilize 2.1.12 ahead of
> schedule since Python 2.6 is now stable in the distribution.

As of today, MM 2.1.12 is in Gentoo stable.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "In an open world,    |     PGP public key
FMP Computer Services |    who needs Windows  |      available at
512-259-1190          |      or Gates"        | http://pubkeys.fmp.com
http://www.fmp.com    |                       |


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Wed Aug 12 20:55:18 2009
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:55:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple instances of Mailman on FreeBSD
Message-ID: <70C7249E-1EC4-4D00-BECE-CD30B43436B5@goldmark.org>

I'm posting this to both the mailman-users list and the freebsd-ports  
list.  I realize that not all follow-up will make it to both lists.

I would like to set up multiple instances of Mailman on a FreeBSD 7- 
STABLE system with using Postfix.  Looking at the ports Makefile, it  
appears that if I set MM_DIR=mailman/vhosts/domain-for-this-instance  
everything should work file (plus add FORCE_PACKAGE_REGISTER allow  
this second instance to be installed.)

But when I do

  % cd /usr/ports/mail/mailman
  % sudo make -DMM_DIR=mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org - 
DFORCE_PKG_REGISTER install

It just installs in the default location, /usr/local/mailman

And this paradoxical report of various settings

$ sudo make MM_DIR=mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org - 
DFORCE_PKG_REGISTER install
===>  Found saved configuration for mailman-2.1.12

You may change the following build options:
MM_USERNAME=mailman	The username of the Mailman user.
MM_USERID=91		The user ID of the Mailman user.
MM_GROUPNAME=mailman	The group to which the Mailman user will belong.
MM_GROUPID=MM_USERID	The group ID for the Mailman user.
MM_DIR=mailman		Mailman will be installed in /usr/local/mailman/vhosts/ 
lists.wilson-pta.org.
CGI_GID=www		The group name or id under which your web server executes  
CGI scripts.
IMGDIR=www/icons	Icon images will be installed in /usr/local/www/icons.


Notice the conflicting information on the line telling me about MM_DIR.


Background on the issue

As is well known to mailman users, mailman 2.X does not fully deal  
with virtual mail domains in that, say

     pta-board at lists.shepard-families.org

And

     pta-board at lists.wilson-pta.org

would have to be the same list.  That is mailman does not provide a  
separate namespace for lists in different domains.

The Wiki/FAQ at

  http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030604

hints at patches (which I can't seem to locate) and mailing list  
discussion mentions an alternative of having a separate instance of  
Mailman for each virtual domain.  This later approach seems easier if  
you don't anticipate having loads of domains.  So that is what I  
intend to do.

Cheers,

-j


-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Aug 12 21:12:44 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:12:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple instances of Mailman on FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <70C7249E-1EC4-4D00-BECE-CD30B43436B5@goldmark.org>
References: <70C7249E-1EC4-4D00-BECE-CD30B43436B5@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <4A83142C.5000903@shub-internet.org>

Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:

> I'm posting this to both the mailman-users list and the freebsd-ports 
> list.  I realize that not all follow-up will make it to both lists.
> 
> I would like to set up multiple instances of Mailman on a FreeBSD 
> 7-STABLE system with using Postfix.  Looking at the ports Makefile, it 
> appears that if I set MM_DIR=mailman/vhosts/domain-for-this-instance 
> everything should work file (plus add FORCE_PACKAGE_REGISTER allow this 
> second instance to be installed.)

Personally, I wouldn't use the ports version if you want to do multiple 
instances of Mailman.  I would install each version from our official source 
tarballs that you can download from www.list.org and ftp.gnu.org.

Alternatively, if you want to use the ports version, then I would keep it 
simple and serve only one domain.


Otherwise, I would recommend that you find the port maintainer for Mailman, 
and discuss this subject with them.  Hopefully, they would know enough about 
both sides of the problem to be able to recommend a solution or patch for you.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Wed Aug 12 21:30:28 2009
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:30:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM 2.1.12 in Gentoo stable - NOT!
In-Reply-To: <1250101850.4803.98.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
References: <PC19220090812094133003130a23840@msapiro>
	<1250100162.4803.95.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
	<1250101850.4803.98.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
Message-ID: <1250105428.4803.100.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>

On Wed, 2009-08-12 at 13:30 -0500, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> As of today, MM 2.1.12 is in Gentoo stable.

I mis-spoke.  Apparently this isn't yet the case, although I would
expect it to be so within a week or so.

Sorry ....

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Everything works if you let it"
FMP Computer Services |   (The Roadie)
512-259-1190          |
http://www.fmp.com    |


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Wed Aug 12 21:38:48 2009
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:38:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple instances of Mailman on FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <4A83142C.5000903@shub-internet.org>
References: <70C7249E-1EC4-4D00-BECE-CD30B43436B5@goldmark.org>
	<4A83142C.5000903@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <80F074FD-8286-4507-8567-D876CE291CE4@goldmark.org>

On Aug 12, 2009, at 2:12 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
>> I would like to set up multiple instances of Mailman on a FreeBSD 7- 
>> STABLE system with using Postfix.

> Personally, I wouldn't use the [FreeBSD] ports version if you want  
> to do multiple instances of Mailman.  I would install each version  
> from our official source tarballs that you can download from www.list.org 
>  and ftp.gnu.org.

The FreeBSD Ports version contains a couple of patches which might be  
useful, though some are merely cosmetic.  It also knows how to find  
the right gid and uid for working with various MTAs.  Postfix, as we  
know, is finicky, and this port really does help people get it right.

> Otherwise, I would recommend that you find the port maintainer for  
> Mailman, and discuss this subject with them.

Already on the cc-line

Anyway, what I have found is that if I manually edit the ports/mail/ 
mailman/Makefile to change

  #MM_DIR?=       mailman
  MM_DIR?=        mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org

The install works as expected, even though when I specified -DMM_DIR  
on the command line it worked for some purposes (built files contained  
the correct string in them) but not for other purposes (the files  
installed in the wrong place).  So I suspect that the "install" stage  
must re-read the Makefile.

So I do now have this other instance installed.  One thing that I (and  
others doing things this way) will have to take care of is the startup  
script, /usr/local/etc/rc.d/mailman, for the queue runner.  This  
installation did overwrite the original.  So I'm either going to have  
to manually combine these in one startup script or set up a separate  
script for each instance.  I'm sure that there will be other things to  
watch out for as well.  I hope to contribute to the Wiki on this once  
I've got everything running.

Let me just say that I am eagerly looking forward to Mailman 3.

Cheers,

-j


-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Wed Aug 12 22:41:19 2009
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:41:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple instances of Mailman on FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <E8CF168809A6F727139DF86C@utd65257.utdallas.edu>
References: <70C7249E-1EC4-4D00-BECE-CD30B43436B5@goldmark.org>
	<E8CF168809A6F727139DF86C@utd65257.utdallas.edu>
Message-ID: <9634BCBC-E295-425A-ABA3-5EAFF0385692@goldmark.org>

On Aug 12, 2009, at 3:21 PM, Paul Schmehl wrote:

> --On Wednesday, August 12, 2009 13:55:18 -0500 Jeffrey Goldberg <jeffrey at goldmark.org 
> > wrote:

>> I'm posting this to both the mailman-users list and the freebsd-ports
>> list.  I realize that not all follow-up will make it to both lists.


>> But when I do
>>
>>  % cd /usr/ports/mail/mailman
>>  % sudo make -DMM_DIR=mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org -
>> DFORCE_PKG_REGISTER install
>>
>> It just installs in the default location, /usr/local/mailman

> This could be a really stupid question (because I've never tried to  
> do what you're doing), but shouldn't the above line be:
>
> $ sudo make MM_DIR=/mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org
>
> In other words, don't you have to provide the *absolute* patch to  
> the install location?

No. Reading the Makefile it is clear that MM_DIR is relative to $PREFIX

The default setting in the Makefile is

  MM_DIR?= mailman

And later on there is a

   MAILMANDIR=     ${PREFIX}/${MM_DIR}

With MAILMANDIR being the absolute install directory.

> The problem is, I'm not exactly sure *where* you want mailman to  
> install, so it's hard to be correct without more information.

Mailman (under normal defaults) installs in various directories under

  /usr/local/mailman

The python for all of the CGIs lives in

  /usr/local/mailman/Mailman

and the programs that an administrator might run on the command line  
live in

  /usr/local/mailmain/bin

And there are various other directories for queues and logs and data  
and per list configurations and such

I want to have instances installed in

  /usr/local/mailman/vhosts/site1
  /usr/local/mailman/vhosts/site2
  /usr/local/mailman/vhosts/site3

Cheers,

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Wed Aug 12 22:56:27 2009
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:56:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple instances of Mailman on FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <200908121238.36253.mel.flynn+fbsd.ports@mailing.thruhere.net>
References: <70C7249E-1EC4-4D00-BECE-CD30B43436B5@goldmark.org>
	<20090812154047.a77a1add.wmoran@potentialtech.com>
	<200908121238.36253.mel.flynn+fbsd.ports@mailing.thruhere.net>
Message-ID: <C2726724-3BBA-49BA-A1BA-8F2D25A90241@goldmark.org>

On Aug 12, 2009, at 3:38 PM, Mel Flynn wrote:

> On Wednesday 12 August 2009 11:40:47 Bill Moran wrote:

>> Were it me, I'd add jails to the system. [...] That's obviously not  
>> the only way to get what you want, just my
>> suggestion.
>
> And mine.

Thank you and Bill for the jail suggestion.  I've never played with  
jails, as I really only have one public IP address available.

> FORCE_PKG_REGISTER abuse will hurt you sooner or later.

I am living in fear of that.

> If you must, then set PKG_DBDIR, PORT_DBDIR and PREFIX correctly.

I don't understand the Package and Port databases well enough to  
actually set them correctly, so I do suspect that I am causing trouble  
for myself this way.

> But things get much easier if you use seperate jails and a postfix  
> in mailhub mode on the main IP
> if you have only one incoming IP.

Ah.  I hadn't thought of that.  I do only have one IP.  I hadn't  
realized that I could set up private addresses on the same host.   
Would the postfix on the main IP be able to run scripts that are on  
individual jails?  If not, I'd have to set up a listening postfix in  
each jail which would accept mail forwarded to it only from the main  
IP.  For outgoing mail, mailman can talk SMTP to a "remote" mail  
server.  Another point of confusion with jails is that the HTTP  
interface for mailman would need to be on the public IP, but would  
need to access the appropriate mailman data that live within jails.

So I really think that unless I can do full jails, each with their own  
SMTP and HTTP daemons on their own public IPs, this would be very  
complicated to maintain.  But I am only guessing here as I don't  
really know what can and can't be done easily with jails.

Cheers,

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Thu Aug 13 03:46:59 2009
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:46:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix vdomains with multiple instances of mailman
Message-ID: <C99A4DB7-65EB-4B9C-AC4C-A181F829A9C7@goldmark.org>

In trying to get things like

    pta-board at one-domain.example

and

    pta-board at second-domain.example

to be distinct lists on a site that is hosting both of those domains,  
I attempted to install multiple instances of Mailman on the same  
host.  That is advice that I saw somewhere on this list.

Unfortunately, it is still not working for me.  From the web end of  
things it is actually working fine.  Within the virtual domains in the  
Apache configuration file for each domain, I point to their respective  
(and distinct) mailman installations.

But I am still having problems separating these as far as Postfix is  
concerned.

For one mailman instance, I will have in

  /usr/local/mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org/data/virtual-domains

    # STANZA START: pta-board
    # CREATED: Wed Aug 12 17:17:42 2009
    pta-board at lists.wilson-pta.org              pta-board
    pta-board-admin at lists.wilson-pta.org        pta-board-admin
    pta-board-bounces at lists.wilson-pta.org      pta-board-bounces
    pta-board-confirm at lists.wilson-pta.org      pta-board-confirm
    pta-board-join at lists.wilson-pta.org         pta-board-join

    etc.

And in

  /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-domain

   # STANZA START: pta-board
   # CREATED: Fri Mar 30 14:20:25 2007
   pta-board at lists.shepard-families.org              pta-board
   pta-board-admin at lists.shepard-families.org        pta-board-admin
   pta-board-bounces at lists.shepard-families.org      pta-board-bounces
   pta-board-confirm at lists.shepard-families.org      pta-board-confirm
   pta-board-join at lists.shepard-families.org         pta-board-join

   etc.

The problem is that right hand side of those, something like

    pta-board-confirm

with no domain at all, should sometimes go to the alias defined in

  /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

which says

   pta-board-bounces:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces  
pta-board"

But at other times, it should get delivered to the alias specified in

  /usr/local/mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org/data/aliases

which says

  pta-board-confirm:     "|/usr/local/mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson- 
pta.org/mail/mailman confirm pta-board"


Anyway, in my set up, it's always going to the first one first (which  
is listed earlier in postfix/main.cf)

Both these aliases files and both virtual-domains files are generated  
by Mailman.  So I don't see where I have scope to fix things.  I would  
like to know how people who have run multiple instances of mailman  
have managed to keep lists in different namespaces.

Cheers,

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Aug 13 05:15:03 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:15:03 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix vdomains with multiple instances of mailman
In-Reply-To: <C99A4DB7-65EB-4B9C-AC4C-A181F829A9C7@goldmark.org>
References: <C99A4DB7-65EB-4B9C-AC4C-A181F829A9C7@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <87iqgsl808.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Jeffrey Goldberg writes:

 > For one mailman instance, I will have in
 > 
 >   /usr/local/mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org/data/virtual-domains
 > 
 >     # STANZA START: pta-board
 >     # CREATED: Wed Aug 12 17:17:42 2009
 >     pta-board at lists.wilson-pta.org              pta-board

 >   /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-domain
 > 
 >    # STANZA START: pta-board
 >    # CREATED: Fri Mar 30 14:20:25 2007
 >    pta-board at lists.shepard-families.org              pta-board

I don't know Postfix well enough to tell you *how* to do it, but note
that Mailman doesn't care what the addresses you use are.  So the
bounce address, which you seem to want to be common (why? aren't the
Mailman instances separate?), can be "pta-board-bounces-common" for
all the domains and lists, while the confirm addresses can be
"pta-board-confirm-shepard-families" and "pta-board-confirm-wilson-pta"
respectively.  Or they can be "mm1" ... "mm<as-many-as-you-need>" for
that matter. ;-)

 > Anyway, in my set up, it's always going to the first one first (which  
 > is listed earlier in postfix/main.cf)

In exim, it is possible to set up multiple routers so that something
that is incoming for "lists.shepard-families.org" uses a separate
configuration in all ways from "lists.wilson-pta.org".  Maybe a
similar effect can be achieved with Postfix?

 > Both these aliases files and both virtual-domains files are generated  
 > by Mailman.  So I don't see where I have scope to fix things.  I would  
 > like to know how people who have run multiple instances of mailman  
 > have managed to keep lists in different namespaces.

By hand, my man, by hand.  I second Brad's recommendation to install
each instance of Mailman from upstream sources rather than via a
package.  You should check the patches applied by your distro to see
if there any you want, but usually they're not very useful -- mostly
they wrench Mailman's configuration into some preconceived scheme,
very often at great cost in flexibility.  (This is not a bad thing in
the context of a distro wanting to provide seamless installation, but
it could screw somebody with requirements like yours royally.)

Please note that neither the distros nor the Mailman maintainers have
a mission to support you (ie, whatever it is that keeps them doing
their work, it doesn't apply to your use case).  Their focus is on
mainstream users, which for most distros is SOHO-type installations
and personal workstations, not vhosting, and for Mailman is people
running a coherent set of mailing lists themselves.  This is a
historical thing for Mailman; Barry and Mark have long since signed on
to better support for vhosters, but practically speaking that has to
come in MM3; it would seriously destabilize MM2.  I wouldn't bet on it
changing in the distros soon though.

So the bottom line is you will have to do much of the config work by
hand for the foreseeable future, and on the one hand installing
Mailman from upstream source is tiny compared to the rest of the work
you do, and on the other makes it much easier for Mailman people who
don't know your distro to help.





From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Thu Aug 13 05:38:23 2009
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:38:23 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Corrupted archives ...
In-Reply-To: <PC19220090812070554043752ca7beb@msapiro>
References: <PC19220090812070554043752ca7beb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4A838AAF.10405@wingfoot.org>

Mark Sapiro said the following on 8/12/09 10:05 AM:
> Do you see these Dec. 1999 messages when you look with Mutt?
>   

*doublechecking* Yes. They look fine.

> It looks like someone or some script ran bin/arch on Mon Aug 10
> 18:53:40 EDT 2009 (and possibly at other times) with some spurious
> input, but I'm not sure what that input would be. The puzzling part is
> the "Previous/Next/Sorted" header which only appears in the periodic
> index files.
>   
Yup. My archives are indexed automagically by Month-Year...

> As Terry suggests, you could run bin/cleanarch as an additional
> test/correction on the listname.mbox. There may be unescaped "From "
> in message bodies that didn't confuse Mutt or that you didn't notice
> with Mutt, and then run bin/arch --wipe to rebuild the archive. But
> also be aware as Terry says that this may renumber messages and break
> saved links to archived messages.
>   

*nods* This is an instance where I may have to go through manually with
vi and fix this email-by-email. :sigh:

It will take forever, considering there are 55k or so messages in the
archive.
> An alternative alternative is to just remove 2009-August/,
> 2009-August.txt and 2009-August.txt.gz (if any) from
> archives/private/listname/ and then run bin/arch (without --wipe) with
> input just consisting of the Aug, 1999 portion of listname.mbox.
>   
Ooh. Let me try that one.
> But the real questions are how did this happen; do the 128 "messages"
> all have Mon Aug 10 18:53:40 EDT 2009 timestamps or do they have
> different timestamps, and what may have been done at that/those times?
>   
It was probably one of the times I ran arch --wipe.

And yes, they all have the same timestamp in the archives.

Let me try re-running the arch command with the 2009-August* files
removed....

Odd. I had to manually create the 2009-August directory, but the problem
is still there. :-/

(I did bin/arch (listname))

Thanks, Mark!
--Glenn



From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Thu Aug 13 16:22:17 2009
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (tanstaafl at libertytrek.org)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:22:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing not working - Update
In-Reply-To: <1250100162.4803.95.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
References: <PC19220090812094133003130a23840@msapiro>
	<1250100162.4803.95.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>
Message-ID: <4A842199.1050401@libertytrek.org>

On 8/12/2009 2:02 PM, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> The Gentoo init script for mailman is pretty simple.  It executes, as
> user 'mailman', "mailmanctl -s start", "mailmanctl stop" and "mailmanctl
> restart" for the standard init script arguments of start, stop and
> restart.  That's all.

Mine stopped working and no amount of begging on the gentoo forums
resulted in any fixes. What finally fixed it for me was to add the full
path to the mailmanctl command being issued.

http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-641573-postdays-0-postorder-asc-highlight-mailman-start-0.html

> I found a thread on the Gentoo bug reporting list which discusses
> compatibility issues between Mailman 2.1.11 and Python 2.6, also
> possibly 2.5 (which I'm running on these boxes).  Gentoo is distributing
> mm 2.1.11 with stable as of yesterday,

Thanks for the heads up about the compatibility issues, guess I'll wait
a while before updating, but...

Hmmm... I just synced, and it still shows 2.1.9-r3 as current stable.

> and 2.1.12 with unstable,

Confirmed.

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 13 16:23:17 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 07:23:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Corrupted archives ...
In-Reply-To: <4A838AAF.10405@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <PC192200908130723170984e2adf969@msapiro>

Glenn Sieb wrote:

>Mark Sapiro said the following on 8/12/09 10:05 AM:
>
>> As Terry suggests, you could run bin/cleanarch as an additional
>> test/correction on the listname.mbox. There may be unescaped "From "
>> in message bodies that didn't confuse Mutt or that you didn't notice
>> with Mutt, and then run bin/arch --wipe to rebuild the archive. But
>> also be aware as Terry says that this may renumber messages and break
>> saved links to archived messages.
>>   
>
>*nods* This is an instance where I may have to go through manually with
>vi and fix this email-by-email. :sigh:
>
>It will take forever, considering there are 55k or so messages in the
>archive.


If as you imply below, you've already run bin/arch --wipe in the recent
past, then you've already reneumbered the archive, so don't worry
about doing it again.


>> An alternative alternative is to just remove 2009-August/,
>> 2009-August.txt and 2009-August.txt.gz (if any) from
>> archives/private/listname/ and then run bin/arch (without --wipe) with
>> input just consisting of the Aug, 1999 portion of listname.mbox.
>>   
>Ooh. Let me try that one.
>> But the real questions are how did this happen; do the 128 "messages"
>> all have Mon Aug 10 18:53:40 EDT 2009 timestamps or do they have
>> different timestamps, and what may have been done at that/those times?
>>   
>It was probably one of the times I ran arch --wipe.
>
>And yes, they all have the same timestamp in the archives.
>
>Let me try re-running the arch command with the 2009-August* files
>removed....
>
>Odd. I had to manually create the 2009-August directory, but the problem
>is still there. :-/
>
>(I did bin/arch (listname))


I meant do

bin/arch (listname) /path/to/edited/mbox/containing/only/2009August.

However, if you've actually done "bin/arch --wipe (listname)" and wound
up with those strange no-subject messages in the current month, there
is either a problem with bin/arch or with the listname.mbox.

What happens if you run

 bin/cleanarch < /path/to/listname.mbox > /dev/null

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Aug 13 18:41:16 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 01:41:16 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
In-Reply-To: <p0624080bc6a92aba26b7@[64.142.30.27]>
References: <p06240813c6a66a9d5b26@[64.142.30.27]>
	<871vnhpr66.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p0624080bc6a92aba26b7@[64.142.30.27]>
Message-ID: <878whn1xar.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Bill Catambay writes:
 > At 1:55 PM +0900 on 8/12/09, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
 > 
 > 
 > >This can be done by setting up aliases as follows (pseudo-syntax, your
 > >mileage will vary):
 > >
 > >foo-list:           moderator at example.com
 > >foo-list-moderated: | mailman post foo-list
 > >
 > >That requires modifying the mailman aliases in the MTA manually,
 > >though.
 > 
 > This went over my head.  What does "MTA manually" mean?   Does that 
 > mean it cannot be done with the web interface?   Do I need to contact 
 > my ISP, or is there something I can do using my shell account access?

Working with the mail transfer agent (MTA == Postfix IIRC) cannot be
done through Mailman's web interface.  [If you have something like
cPanel it might be possible.]  To change aliases in the MTA you would
need not just shell access, but root access.  You may need help from
your ISP in that case.

 > My ISP is using Mailman 2.1.11.  Is that the latest?  I'm guessing 
 > no, since it is currently NOT recognizing the envelope sender.  This 
 > sounds like one that I'll need to contact my ISP for.

No, it is not the latest, 2.1.12 is.

Unfortunately, it looks like things don't work as you need them to,
definitely not in 2.1.11, and probably not in 2.1.12.  As far as I can
tell from the 2.1.11 code, the envelope sender *is* recognized in the
moderation module, but only as one of several possible candidates for
the *author* of the message.  And the From header will be preferred to
envelope sender for that.

Among other things, I don't think Mailman knows who the moderator(s)
is; anybody with the moderation password is a moderator.  I can think
of several approaches to make this work, but the only non-invasive one
(ie, it restricts all changes in Mailman behavior to your lists) would
require ISP intervention every time you want to change the moderator's
address.  Otherwise, there would need to be changes to some web
templates and so on.  I wouldn't like that if I were them.

 > It seems that if you change the reply-to to an explicit address, that 
 > both digest and non-digest members should have the same reply-to.

Sounds plausible but these things are complex.  As I say, somebody
more familiar with the detail needs to answer this one.

 > >That said, the option you need is on the admin page, near the bottom.
 > >Try disabling inclusion of the "List-Post" header.  If that doesn't
 > >work, disable inclusion of the "RFC 2369" headers, too.
 > 
 > I did both.  It appears to have fixed the problem (not sure which 
 > action, if not both, resolved it).

Progress ....

 > >A second option here is to use the Approved: header or pseudo-header.
 > >Many MUAs can be set to add these automatically, YMMV.
 > 
 > Could you elaborate on this?

MUA is "mail user agent", also called a "client".  Most people think
of it as "my mail program", but on this list that could mean the MUA,
the MTA, or mailman itself, so ....

Most MUAs have a fixed set of headers which you fill in as a form in a
GUI: From, To, Cc, Subject.  A powerful MUA will allow you to add
arbitrary headers.  If this is possible, then you add a header like
this:

Approved: <password>

A pseudo-header looks exactly the same, but it is placed as the very
first line of the body, before any formatted text.  Not all MUAs can
do this, either, unfortunately, if they are forwarding a formatted
(eg, HTML) mail.  In either case, Mailman automatically removes the
Approved header.

A third approach involves putting the approval in the subject.  There
was discussion of "Approved in the subject header" earlier this week
or last week, check the archives.  Mark provided a patch (that would
definitely need intervention by your ISP).  I think Mark's patch was
somewhat invasive (ie, it would affect other people's lists in the
same way, which your ISP might or might not like).  There's also a
method using a "Handler" that should work, and could be installed and
configured without affecting anyone else's lists.  It would require
intervention by the ISP both to install the handler and configure it
for you.

Both the pseudo-header and Approved in Subject are somewhat unreliable
and insecure IMO, but the advantage to Approved in Subject is that all
MUAs can do this.  "Moderator is Sender" is of course the easiest.

All of these approaches suffer from the possibility that your
moderation password could theoretically be "sniffed" on the net unless
your moderator uses an encrypted channel to send mail to the list
host.  The "Moderator is Enveloper Sender" approach is also
vulnerable, since it is easy (if you have the right tools such as a
Linux workstation, or certain "unofficial" MUAs) to spoof the envelope
sender.  I don't want to alarm you, just to give you some information
you need to compare these approaches.

 > >  > 4. Lastly, the web archives created by Autoshare automatically
 > >  > created clickable HTML links for all HTML URL's in posts.
 > >
 > >I don't think Pipermail (the default archiver bundled with Mailman)
 > >can do it at all,
 > 
 > Interestingly, the archives for *this* mailing list appears to have 
 > some decent formatted archives.  Does this list use MHonArc?

Apparently I was totally wrong.  I thought Pipermail only did that for
its own links (next message, etc), but it does seem to do it for all
URLs.  In particular, this list does use pipermail.

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 13 19:09:29 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:09:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
In-Reply-To: <878whn1xar.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC19220090813100929001568198b6c@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Bill Catambay writes:
>
> > My ISP is using Mailman 2.1.11.  Is that the latest?  I'm guessing 
> > no, since it is currently NOT recognizing the envelope sender.  This 
> > sounds like one that I'll need to contact my ISP for.
>
>No, it is not the latest, 2.1.12 is.
>
>Unfortunately, it looks like things don't work as you need them to,
>definitely not in 2.1.11, and probably not in 2.1.12.  As far as I can
>tell from the 2.1.11 code, the envelope sender *is* recognized in the
>moderation module, but only as one of several possible candidates for
>the *author* of the message.  And the From header will be preferred to
>envelope sender for that.


It's somewhat confusing and complicated, but it hasn't changed in a
long time. The way it works is that a post is considered to be from a
member if a member address is found in any of (by default, see
SENDER_HEADERS) the From: header, the envelope sender, the Reply-To:
header if any and the Sender: header if any.

If this test determines the post is from a member, the member's
'moderate' flag is checked and the post is handled accordingly. If
more than one member address is in the above set, it's the first found
in the above order that is used. This decision as to which moderate
flag to use is the only place where the ordering of the search for a
member address is significant

If the post is not from a member, then a possibly different address is
checked against *_these_nonmembers. This address is the first address
found in a search that depends on the setting of USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER.
If USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER is false (the default) the search order is
From: header, Sender: header, envelope sender. If USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER
is true, the search order is Sender: header, From: header, envelope
sender. Thus, the name USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER is really a misnomer, but
note that this only possibly affects the address used for
*_these_nonmembers checks.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From phanh at canby.k12.or.us  Thu Aug 13 20:57:35 2009
From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:57:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman error message
Message-ID: <3EEDF90E-3EC0-47AF-BCDA-FE0A6E7971F0@canby.k12.or.us>

Hello, all

Have anyone run into this message:
Received-SPF: softfail (google.com: domain of transitioning test-bounces at mailman.k12.or.us 
  does not designate 74.125.149.50 as permitted sender) client- 
ip=74.125.149.50;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=softfail (google.com:  
domain of transitioning test-bounces at mailman.k12.or.us does not  
designate 74.125.149.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=csd_staff-bounces at mailman.canby.k12.or.us
We use Exim 4.69 and Mailman 2.0.11 on Fedora 10. We just recently  
added Postini archiving service; therefore, it alters the inbound as  
well as outbound gateway.
A quick Google shows up with something about SPF and permitted sender.  
The above message seems to indicate that we need to add the 72.125.  
address into our server. Any pointer is greatly appreciated.
Thank you,

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 13 21:44:22 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:44:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman error message
In-Reply-To: <3EEDF90E-3EC0-47AF-BCDA-FE0A6E7971F0@canby.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC1922009081312442209846cadb92e@msapiro>

Hung Phan wrote:
>
>Have anyone run into this message:
>Received-SPF: softfail (google.com: domain of transitioning test-bounces at mailman.k12.or.us 
>  does not designate 74.125.149.50 as permitted sender) client- 
>ip=74.125.149.50;
>Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=softfail (google.com:  
>domain of transitioning test-bounces at mailman.k12.or.us does not  
>designate 74.125.149.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=csd_staff-bounces at mailman.canby.k12.or.us
>We use Exim 4.69 and Mailman 2.0.11 on Fedora 10. We just recently  
>added Postini archiving service; therefore, it alters the inbound as  
>well as outbound gateway.
>A quick Google shows up with something about SPF and permitted sender.  
>The above message seems to indicate that we need to add the 72.125.  
>address into our server. Any pointer is greatly appreciated.


Your mail is being delivered to recipients through postini. The spf
record for the mailman.canby.k12.or.us domain is "v=spf1 mx ~all"
which says the MX for the domain, which also is
mailman.canby.k12.or.us, is authorized to send mail from this domain
and every other server is a softfail.

You could change this record to "v=spf1 mx ip4:74.125.149.50 ~all" ore
equivalently "v=spf1 mx a:na3sys009amx210.postini.com ~all" to
authorize this particular server to send mail on your behalf, but
postini probably has several servers so you probably would want
something like
"v=spf1 mx ip4:74.125.149.50/x ~all" to authorize the range where 'x'
is the dumber of bits to consider and would have to be provided by
postini, or perhaps postini has other mechanisms for specifying all
their servers in SPF records.

See <http://www.openspf.org/>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Aug 14 04:40:41 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:40:41 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
In-Reply-To: <PC19220090813100929001568198b6c@msapiro>
References: <878whn1xar.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<PC19220090813100929001568198b6c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <877hx786dy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:
 > Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
 > 
 > >Bill Catambay writes:
 > >
 > > > My ISP is using Mailman 2.1.11.  Is that the latest?  I'm guessing 
 > > > no, since it is currently NOT recognizing the envelope sender.  This 
 > > > sounds like one that I'll need to contact my ISP for.

 > >Unfortunately, it looks like things don't work as you need them to,

NB. "As he needs them to" means that the *list moderator* be
recognized as the *envelope sender*, and the message be approved in
that case.

 > It's somewhat confusing and complicated, but it hasn't changed in a
 > long time.

And won't work for the OP, since envelope sender is always lowest
priority in the checks.

Just to summarize, since the OP characterizes himself as a "newbie".
Bottom line, a new feature is needed for his use case.

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 14 05:58:32 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:58:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
In-Reply-To: <877hx786dy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC192200908132058320906cc7fe92a@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Mark Sapiro writes:
> > Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> > 
> > >Bill Catambay writes:
> > >
> > > > My ISP is using Mailman 2.1.11.  Is that the latest?  I'm guessing 
> > > > no, since it is currently NOT recognizing the envelope sender.  This 
> > > > sounds like one that I'll need to contact my ISP for.
>
> > >Unfortunately, it looks like things don't work as you need them to,
>
>NB. "As he needs them to" means that the *list moderator* be
>recognized as the *envelope sender*, and the message be approved in
>that case.
>
> > It's somewhat confusing and complicated, but it hasn't changed in a
> > long time.
>
>And won't work for the OP, since envelope sender is always lowest
>priority in the checks.
>
>Just to summarize, since the OP characterizes himself as a "newbie".
>Bottom line, a new feature is needed for his use case.


I don't think so. Moderate.py calls the Message.get_senders() method to
get *all* the addresses from the From: header, envelope sender,
Reply-To: header and Sender: header. If any of those addresses is a
member, the post is from a member.

It is only later, after we decide it's a non-member post that Moderate
calls Message.get_sender() to get the single, first address in From:
and Sender: headers and the envelope sender to match against
*_these_nonmembers.

Thus, if the list moderator's address is the envelope sender and is a
list member, the post is a member post.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Aug 14 07:12:59 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:12:59 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
In-Reply-To: <PC192200908132058320906cc7fe92a@msapiro>
References: <877hx786dy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<PC192200908132058320906cc7fe92a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <878whnyo4k.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:
 > Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

 > >NB. "As he needs them to" means that the *list moderator* be
 > >recognized as the *envelope sender*, and the message be approved in
 > >that case.

 > >Bottom line, a new feature is needed for his use case.

 > I don't think so. Moderate.py calls the Message.get_senders() method to
 > get *all* the addresses from the From: header, envelope sender,
 > Reply-To: header and Sender: header. If any of those addresses is a
 > member, the post is from a member.

The point is that the OP's use-case is to make a decision based on
envelope sender == moderator, while preserving originator headers.  A
member check is not what he wants.

From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Aug 14 10:02:26 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:02:26 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
In-Reply-To: <p0624081ec6aaa2be4787@[64.142.30.27]>
References: <877hx786dy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<PC192200908132058320906cc7fe92a@msapiro>
	<878whnyo4k.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p0624081ec6aaa2be4787@[64.142.30.27]>
Message-ID: <8763cqzuul.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Bill Catambay writes:

 > Correct.  The From: header should always be a member of the list (but 
 > a member whose "mod" flag is turned off).   The envelope sender would 
 > be me, the moderator.

Aha.  The mod flag means that the member's posts will be held for
moderation, *not* that the member *is* a moderator.  Moderators are
identified by having the list moderator password, and in Mailman 2.1,
that is the only identification of moderators.  They need not be
members of the lists they moderate.

The list *owner* is known to Mailman by email address.  If the list
owner is also the only moderator, it would be easy to make this work
(but does require additional code not in Mailman 2.1.11 or 2.1.12
AFAICS).

[I don't understand the random moderation behavior, so I'm going to
skip it for now.]

 > What I'm really looking for is something to tell Mailman to look at 
 > envelope sender first, and if it's a privileged member (aka, "mod" is 
 > true), immediately deliver.

This a plausible design, but it simply isn't the way Mailman looks at
this.  The idea of the mod bit in Mailman is that mostly the members
should post without hindrance, but if somebody gets too obstreperous,
we flip the mod bit to slow them down for a few days.  (There's also a
mechanism to flip everybody on, or off, at once; this allows
configuring announce lists, or doing "emergency moderation" in case of
a flame war or somebody's contact list getting scarfed by a spammer.)

However, as long as "moderate everybody but me" is an acceptable usage
for you, it would be possible to abuse the mod bit this way, with a
little extra code.  (I say "abuse" because (1) it will confuse the
heck out of experienced Mailman admins trying to help you in the
future, and (2) because it may conflict with your attempts to use
other Mailman features in the future.  (2) isn't all that likely, but
we *are* talking about something outside of the design parameters.)

IMO, it would be better to use list owner in this role if that would
work for you.

 > PS: Yes, I realize that those who understand their email clients and 
 > understand how the list works would be able to spoof the envelope 
 > sender if they wanted to, but this is not a realistic concern.  In 15 
 > years of moderating this list, no one has ever done that.

The real worry is somebody getting "owned", and the rootkit sending
their contact list to a spammer.  Not that this should worry you very
much, but you should be prepared to slam on the brakes.  Here, to
protect your members, you just moderate yourself, then call
mailman-users to learn how to handle huge moderation queues, and
reconfigure to weed out the spam before it gets to Mailman. :-)


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Aug 14 10:09:54 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:09:54 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
In-Reply-To: <p06240823c6aaa8b6adbe@[64.142.30.27]>
References: <p06240813c6a66a9d5b26@[64.142.30.27]>
	<871vnhpr66.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p0624080bc6a92aba26b7@[64.142.30.27]>
	<878whn1xar.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240823c6aaa8b6adbe@[64.142.30.27]>
Message-ID: <874osazui5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Bill Catambay writes:
 > At 1:41 AM +0900 on 8/14/09, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
 > 
 > 
 > >  > >This can be done by setting up aliases as follows (pseudo-syntax, your
 > >  > >mileage will vary):
 > >  > >
 > >  > >foo-list:           moderator at example.com
 > >  > >foo-list-moderated: | mailman post foo-list

 > It does sound like something requiring my ISP involvement.  I'm sure 
 > they won't mind if it's a one-time setup and they understand what I'm 
 > requesting.  The thing is that I don't really understand what I'd be 
 > requesting, or why.

 > foo-list is the name of my mailing list, and moderator at example.com 
 > would be the moderator's email (aka, my email address).  I'm asking 
 > them to create an alias for the list name?  Or should that be the 
 > full list email address (e.g., foo-list at lists.sonic.net) ?

Yes, it is aliasing the list to you.  Everything gets forwarded to
you, you make your decisions, and send it on to the list.  If done
this way, (almost) all the Mailman filtering can be turned off.

 > What is "foo-list-moderated"?  I'm guessing "| mailman post foo-list" 
 > is some command line syntax that any server running Mailman would 
 > understand.  I can pretend to understand that (since my ISP tech 
 > support will probably understand it).

"foo-list-moderated" is where you send the mail once you've approved
it.  The best way would be if you can use an authenticated link, and
nobody can send to that address without authentication.  But that's
somewhat complex for the ISP to support.  "Security through obscurity"
should work OK, though.

 > This suggestion was in response to my leading paragraph, not any of 
 > my 4 issues,so I'm not really sure what this buys if I were to get my 
 > ISP to do it.  Was this a suggestion for how to do the redirection? 
 > (in which case, I'm already good, as I already use my email client 
 > for redirection)

I don't understand.  To what address do members send their posts?

 > Maybe there was an assumption made that people generally don't click 
 > reply to a digest (since the subject would be wrong, and the quoted 
 > text would be excessive).

Could be, but the digest feature is like 15 years old now.

Gotta run, but I think we're converging to a plan.

Steve

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 14 15:54:36 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 06:54:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
In-Reply-To: <8763cqzuul.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC19220090814065436000051a36ba4@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Bill Catambay writes:
>
> > Correct.  The From: header should always be a member of the list (but 
> > a member whose "mod" flag is turned off).   The envelope sender would 
> > be me, the moderator.
>
>Aha.  The mod flag means that the member's posts will be held for
>moderation, *not* that the member *is* a moderator.  Moderators are
>identified by having the list moderator password, and in Mailman 2.1,
>that is the only identification of moderators.  They need not be
>members of the lists they moderate.
>
>The list *owner* is known to Mailman by email address.  If the list
>owner is also the only moderator, it would be easy to make this work
>(but does require additional code not in Mailman 2.1.11 or 2.1.12
>AFAICS).


The above is not quite correct. Each list has two attributes, owner and
moderator, which are lists of email addresses, but these have nothing
to do with mail approval or roles in Mailman. See the FAQs at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/5YA9> and <http://wiki.list.org/x/WYA9>.
Basically, those owner and moderator addresses determine who receives
various notices. Owner and moderator roles are determined by knowledge
of the respective passwords.


>[I don't understand the random moderation behavior, so I'm going to
>skip it for now.]
>
> > What I'm really looking for is something to tell Mailman to look at 
> > envelope sender first, and if it's a privileged member (aka, "mod" is 
> > true), immediately deliver.


You can do this but it will require the cooperation of the Mailman
host. The cooperation part is to set 

SENDER_HEADERS = (None, 'from', 'reply-to', 'sender')

in mm_cfg.py. Putting None first will check the envelope sender before
the From: header.

Then unmoderate the authorized envelope sender(s) and moderate everyone
else.

Note that Stephen's other remarks are valid. Also, I apologize for
being slow to understand the actual requirement. I confess, I only
skimmed the OP and Stephen's original reply, and then got somewhat
lost in the details in the follow-ups.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From andale at excaliburworld.com  Thu Aug 13 04:39:02 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:39:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
In-Reply-To: <871vnhpr66.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <p06240813c6a66a9d5b26@[64.142.30.27]>
	<871vnhpr66.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p0624080bc6a92aba26b7@[64.142.30.27]>

At 1:55 PM +0900 on 8/12/09, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:


>This can be done by setting up aliases as follows (pseudo-syntax, your
>mileage will vary):
>
>foo-list:           moderator at example.com
>foo-list-moderated: | mailman post foo-list
>
>That requires modifying the mailman aliases in the MTA manually,
>though.  And the moderator needs to know to send moderated posts to
>foo-list-moderated, and will need software capable of editing and
>resending without changing headers that the moderator doesn't want
>changed.

This went over my head.  What does "MTA manually" mean?   Does that 
mean it cannot be done with the web interface?   Do I need to contact 
my ISP, or is there something I can do using my shell account access?

>  > Autoshare recognized the envelope sender and passed the post
>  > through to the list immediately.
>
>Recent mailman recognizes envelope sender for the "authorized
>posters".  You might want to screen out cases where the From spoofs
>the moderator using the spam filters because the test is "from OR
>sender OR envelope sender IS IN authorized-senders".

My ISP is using Mailman 2.1.11.  Is that the latest?  I'm guessing 
no, since it is currently NOT recognizing the envelope sender.  This 
sounds like one that I'll need to contact my ISP for.

>
>  > The problems I'm having are as follows:
>  >
>  > 1. The reply-to does not seem to work for digest members.
>
>I'll leave that to someone more familiar with the code.

It seems that if you change the reply-to to an explicit address, that 
both digest and non-digest members should have the same reply-to.  Is 
this an oversight?  Or perhaps this is something fixed in the latest 
version of Mailman?

>  > 2. For members whose email clients use buttons based upon email
>  > headers - specifically, list-id - they click on Reply to List and it
>  > goes to the wrong place.  I would either like to change the list-id
>  > value, or remove it entirely.  Is there a way to do that?
>
>IMO it is preferable to reroute the workflow using aliases as
>described above.  That will fix your digest problem too.

Hoping for some clarification on that, and I'd love to give it a try.

>That said, the option you need is on the admin page, near the bottom.
>Try disabling inclusion of the "List-Post" header.  If that doesn't
>work, disable inclusion of the "RFC 2369" headers, too.

I did both.  It appears to have fixed the problem (not sure which 
action, if not both, resolved it).

>  > 3. I would like the Mailman list to recognize the envelope sender
>  >    to authorize immediate distribution of the post.
>
>Yes, this is possible.  There's a FAQ on this.  Somebody else will
>give details shortly, I suppose.

Above you mentioned that it's already supported in the latest 
Mailman.  Is the solution you recommend here something that will work 
in the version 2.1.11?  In either case, which FAQ discusses it?  I've 
seen a few, but have yet to find something about envelope sender. 

>A second option here is to use the Approved: header or pseudo-header.
>Many MUAs can be set to add these automatically, YMMV.

Could you elaborate on this?  I don't know how to use Approved: 
header or pseudo-header (not sure what that means).  I also don't 
know what MUA stands for (sorry if I sound like a newbie... I guess I 
am).


>  > 4. Lastly, the web archives created by Autoshare automatically
>  > created clickable HTML links for all HTML URL's in posts.  The
>  > Mailman archives are all unclickable plain text URL's.  Note, I want
>  > the list to remain a plain text list, as it was on Autoshare, but I'd
>  > still like Mailman to build HTML code to make the links active in the
>  > web archive.  Is there a way to do this?
>
>I don't think Pipermail (the default archiver bundled with Mailman)
>can do it at all, but it is possible to use external archivers such as
>MHonArc.  This requires substantial effort and cooperation from the
>list host admins, though.  There are also third-party archiving
>services.  Again, see the FAQ.
>

Interestingly, the archives for *this* mailing list appears to have 
some decent formatted archives.  Does this list use MHonArc?

Thanks for your response.  I really appreciate any further 
information I can get.  I'd like to accomplish as much as I can 
before going back to sonic.net.

Bill

From andale at excaliburworld.com  Fri Aug 14 07:26:56 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:26:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
In-Reply-To: <878whnyo4k.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <877hx786dy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<PC192200908132058320906cc7fe92a@msapiro>
	<878whnyo4k.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p0624081ec6aaa2be4787@[64.142.30.27]>

At 2:12 PM +0900 on 8/14/09, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:


>Mark Sapiro writes:
>  > Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>
>  > >NB. "As he needs them to" means that the *list moderator* be
>  > >recognized as the *envelope sender*, and the message be approved in
>  > >that case.
>
>  > >Bottom line, a new feature is needed for his use case.
>
>  > I don't think so. Moderate.py calls the Message.get_senders() method to
>  > get *all* the addresses from the From: header, envelope sender,
>  > Reply-To: header and Sender: header. If any of those addresses is a
>  > member, the post is from a member.
>
>The point is that the OP's use-case is to make a decision based on
>envelope sender == moderator, while preserving originator headers.  A
>member check is not what he wants.

Correct.  The From: header should always be a member of the list (but 
a member whose "mod" flag is turned off).   The envelope sender would 
be me, the moderator.

I have noticed that about 10 to 20 percent of posts I redirect to the 
list (with me as the envelope sender) are actually getting posted 
without me having to approve them.  I'm not sure why that is.

The majority, however, are being held for approval.

What I'm really looking for is something to tell Mailman to look at 
envelope sender first, and if it's a privileged member (aka, "mod" is 
true), immediately deliver.

SIDE NOTE: I've also noticed a few posts recently (total of 3) that 
triggered an admin email asking for approval, but when I went to the 
web admin interface, there was nothing in the pending queue.  I 
actually had to send the posts a 2nd time.  This is a completely 
different issue, of course, but I thought I'd mention it in case it's 
a known issue.

Bill

PS: Yes, I realize that those who understand their email clients and 
understand how the list works would be able to spoof the envelope 
sender if they wanted to, but this is not a realistic concern.  In 15 
years of moderating this list, no one has ever done that.

From andale at excaliburworld.com  Fri Aug 14 07:30:21 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:30:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
In-Reply-To: <877hx786dy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <878whn1xar.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<PC19220090813100929001568198b6c@msapiro>
	<877hx786dy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240822c6aaa67d285a@[64.142.30.27]>

At 11:40 AM +0900 on 8/14/09, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:


>Mark Sapiro writes:
>  > Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>  >
>  > >Bill Catambay writes:
>  > >
>  > > > My ISP is using Mailman 2.1.11.  Is that the latest?  I'm guessing
>  > > > no, since it is currently NOT recognizing the envelope sender.  This
>  > > > sounds like one that I'll need to contact my ISP for.
>
>  > >Unfortunately, it looks like things don't work as you need them to,
>
>NB. "As he needs them to" means that the *list moderator* be
>recognized as the *envelope sender*, and the message be approved in
>that case.

Correct.

>  > It's somewhat confusing and complicated, but it hasn't changed in a
>  > long time.
>
>And won't work for the OP, since envelope sender is always lowest
>priority in the checks.
>
>Just to summarize, since the OP characterizes himself as a "newbie".
>Bottom line, a new feature is needed for his use case.

Just to clarify, I am a "newbie" with regards to Mailman.  I've been 
moderating mailing lists for 15 years or so.

This is sounding more and more like a feature that isn't currently supported.

Bill

From andale at excaliburworld.com  Fri Aug 14 08:14:59 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:14:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
In-Reply-To: <878whn1xar.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <p06240813c6a66a9d5b26@[64.142.30.27]>
	<871vnhpr66.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p0624080bc6a92aba26b7@[64.142.30.27]>
	<878whn1xar.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240823c6aaa8b6adbe@[64.142.30.27]>

At 1:41 AM +0900 on 8/14/09, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:


>  > >This can be done by setting up aliases as follows (pseudo-syntax, your
>  > >mileage will vary):
>  > >
>  > >foo-list:           moderator at example.com
>  > >foo-list-moderated: | mailman post foo-list
>  > >
>  > >That requires modifying the mailman aliases in the MTA manually,
>  > >though.
>  >
>  > This went over my head.  What does "MTA manually" mean?   Does that
>  > mean it cannot be done with the web interface?   Do I need to contact
>  > my ISP, or is there something I can do using my shell account access?
>
>Working with the mail transfer agent (MTA == Postfix IIRC) cannot be
>done through Mailman's web interface.  [If you have something like
>cPanel it might be possible.]  To change aliases in the MTA you would
>need not just shell access, but root access.  You may need help from
>your ISP in that case.

It does sound like something requiring my ISP involvement.  I'm sure 
they won't mind if it's a one-time setup and they understand what I'm 
requesting.  The thing is that I don't really understand what I'd be 
requesting, or why.

foo-list is the name of my mailing list, and moderator at example.com 
would be the moderator's email (aka, my email address).  I'm asking 
them to create an alias for the list name?  Or should that be the 
full list email address (e.g., foo-list at lists.sonic.net) ?

What is "foo-list-moderated"?  I'm guessing "| mailman post foo-list" 
is some command line syntax that any server running Mailman would 
understand.  I can pretend to understand that (since my ISP tech 
support will probably understand it).

This suggestion was in response to my leading paragraph, not any of 
my 4 issues,so I'm not really sure what this buys if I were to get my 
ISP to do it.  Was this a suggestion for how to do the redirection? 
(in which case, I'm already good, as I already use my email client 
for redirection)

>
>  > It seems that if you change the reply-to to an explicit address, that
>  > both digest and non-digest members should have the same reply-to.
>
>Sounds plausible but these things are complex.  As I say, somebody
>more familiar with the detail needs to answer this one.

Maybe there was an assumption made that people generally don't click 
reply to a digest (since the subject would be wrong, and the quoted 
text would be excessive).  It does happen.  For some, it's easier to 
click reply and change the subject and then trim the quoted text 
(there are a few times when they forget to do the subject change 
and/or trimming, but those would be rejected anyway).

>
>All of these approaches suffer from the possibility that your
>moderation password could theoretically be "sniffed" on the net unless
>your moderator uses an encrypted channel to send mail to the list
>host.  The "Moderator is Enveloper Sender" approach is also
>vulnerable, since it is easy (if you have the right tools such as a
>Linux workstation, or certain "unofficial" MUAs) to spoof the envelope
>sender.  I don't want to alarm you, just to give you some information
>you need to compare these approaches.

I tried this once, and I felt really really uncomfortable with it.  I 
kept looking at the To: to make sure I wasn't sending it to someone. 
The admin email says to click reply, but when I click reply, it 
addresses it to the list owner (e.g., 
foo-list-owner at lists.sonic.net), so it just comes back to me.  I'm 
not sure where it was supposed to go, but I'm also not sure I would 
feel comfortable with this method anyway.  I can picture me doing 
this some night when I'm running on 2 brain cells, and sending the 
list password to some random email.

>  > >  > 4. Lastly, the web archives created by Autoshare automatically
>  > >  > created clickable HTML links for all HTML URL's in posts.
>  > >
>  > >I don't think Pipermail (the default archiver bundled with Mailman)
>  > >can do it at all,
>  >
>  > Interestingly, the archives for *this* mailing list appears to have
>  > some decent formatted archives.  Does this list use MHonArc?
>
>Apparently I was totally wrong.  I thought Pipermail only did that for
>its own links (next message, etc), but it does seem to do it for all
>URLs.  In particular, this list does use pipermail.

Okay, this is bizarre. I just went to our web archives, and they now 
have the formatted "previous" and "next" links, as well as HTML links 
within the body.  I swear the other day I was staring at plain text. 
The footer has changed to "This archive was generated by Pipermail 
0.09 (Mailman edition)."  I looked at the footer before, and it was 
completely different (no mention of Pipermail).

[looks again]

Okay, I think I know what happened.  I clicked on the "Gzip'd Text" 
link, and when you do that, it shows the archives in plain text.  It 
seems kind of obvious now.  I guess that was one of those nights I 
was running on minimum brain cells.

Bill

From ccooper at gptours.com  Fri Aug 14 00:45:18 2009
From: ccooper at gptours.com (Cherry Cooper)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:45:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Question
Message-ID: <658ED0D02B943340A3A9ECCBD748399C01DE43C1@gptours.net>

 

 

 

Gptours mailing list administration
Membership Management... Section

 

I am trying to upload all of the email addresses we have saved for a
private mailing and can not find any instructions on how to do this

Please advise

Thanks

 

Cherry Cooper 
Chief Operating Officer 

Grand Prix Tours 
26 Corporate Plaza, Suite 150 
Newport Beach, CA 92660, USA 
Tel: +1 949 719 3350 
Fax: +1 949 719 3360 
www.gptours.com 

 


From jasonh at DataIX.net  Thu Aug 13 01:29:20 2009
From: jasonh at DataIX.net (Jason J. Hellenthal)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:29:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple instances of Mailman on FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <9634BCBC-E295-425A-ABA3-5EAFF0385692@goldmark.org>
References: <70C7249E-1EC4-4D00-BECE-CD30B43436B5@goldmark.org>
	<E8CF168809A6F727139DF86C@utd65257.utdallas.edu>
	<9634BCBC-E295-425A-ABA3-5EAFF0385692@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <20090812192920.f42cee9a.jasonh@DataIX.net>

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:41:19 -0500
Jeffrey Goldberg <jeffrey at goldmark.org> wrote:

> On Aug 12, 2009, at 3:21 PM, Paul Schmehl wrote:
> 
> > --On Wednesday, August 12, 2009 13:55:18 -0500 Jeffrey Goldberg <jeffrey at goldmark.org 
> > > wrote:
> 
> >> I'm posting this to both the mailman-users list and the freebsd-ports
> >> list.  I realize that not all follow-up will make it to both lists.
> 
> 
> >> But when I do
> >>
> >>  % cd /usr/ports/mail/mailman
> >>  % sudo make -DMM_DIR=mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org -
> >> DFORCE_PKG_REGISTER install
> >>
> >> It just installs in the default location, /usr/local/mailman
> 
> > This could be a really stupid question (because I've never tried to  
> > do what you're doing), but shouldn't the above line be:
> >
> > $ sudo make MM_DIR=/mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org
> >
> > In other words, don't you have to provide the *absolute* patch to  
> > the install location?
> 
> No. Reading the Makefile it is clear that MM_DIR is relative to $PREFIX
> 
> The default setting in the Makefile is
> 
>   MM_DIR?= mailman
> 
> And later on there is a
> 
>    MAILMANDIR=     ${PREFIX}/${MM_DIR}
> 
> With MAILMANDIR being the absolute install directory.
> 
> > The problem is, I'm not exactly sure *where* you want mailman to  
> > install, so it's hard to be correct without more information.
> 
> Mailman (under normal defaults) installs in various directories under
> 
>   /usr/local/mailman
> 
> The python for all of the CGIs lives in
> 
>   /usr/local/mailman/Mailman
> 
> and the programs that an administrator might run on the command line  
> live in
> 
>   /usr/local/mailmain/bin
> 
> And there are various other directories for queues and logs and data  
> and per list configurations and such
> 
> I want to have instances installed in
> 
>   /usr/local/mailman/vhosts/site1
>   /usr/local/mailman/vhosts/site2
>   /usr/local/mailman/vhosts/site3
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> -j
> 
> -- 
> Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/
> 

Can you not just ( cp -r /usr/local/mailman /path/to/vhost/staging ) edit some of the paths and then just host it. How many of the files are you actually required to edit ?. If this will be a continual process it might be better off to rsync your master mailman directory to all the separate vhosts obviously skipping configs and list directories and then scripting out the exact changes you need to make up creation of a new vhost.

Best regards.

:wq
-- 
Jason J. Hellenthal
+1.616.403.8065
jasonh at DataIX.net

From phardy at cellrunner.com  Fri Aug 14 06:24:37 2009
From: phardy at cellrunner.com (Paul Hardy)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:24:37 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting the Administrator's interface language to
	be different to the default language of the subscribers?
Message-ID: <F8546B221A9A490BA414BC2AD10FDCA0@bushprius>

I have spent a day looking through the Mailman documentation and searching
the archives of this mailing list.

I am administrating a list for a group of blind users who speak Japanese. A
new user's first encounter with the system must be in Japanese. Therefore,
the default_language is set to Japanese. This means the Adminstrator's
interface is also in Japanese. This is fine for the most part. However, it
needs to be in English from time to time. When it is in English, new users
will see an English-language welcome email. How can I force all new users to
Japanese, whilst being able to select the Administrator's language at will?



From pschmehl_lists at tx.rr.com  Wed Aug 12 22:21:47 2009
From: pschmehl_lists at tx.rr.com (Paul Schmehl)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:21:47 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple instances of Mailman on FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <70C7249E-1EC4-4D00-BECE-CD30B43436B5@goldmark.org>
References: <70C7249E-1EC4-4D00-BECE-CD30B43436B5@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <E8CF168809A6F727139DF86C@utd65257.utdallas.edu>

--On Wednesday, August 12, 2009 13:55:18 -0500 Jeffrey Goldberg 
<jeffrey at goldmark.org> wrote:

>
> I'm posting this to both the mailman-users list and the freebsd-ports
> list.  I realize that not all follow-up will make it to both lists.
>
> I would like to set up multiple instances of Mailman on a FreeBSD 7-
> STABLE system with using Postfix.  Looking at the ports Makefile, it
> appears that if I set MM_DIR=mailman/vhosts/domain-for-this-instance
> everything should work file (plus add FORCE_PACKAGE_REGISTER allow
> this second instance to be installed.)
>
> But when I do
>
>   % cd /usr/ports/mail/mailman
>   % sudo make -DMM_DIR=mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org -
> DFORCE_PKG_REGISTER install
>
> It just installs in the default location, /usr/local/mailman
>
> And this paradoxical report of various settings
>
> $ sudo make MM_DIR=mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org -

This could be a really stupid question (because I've never tried to do what 
you're doing), but shouldn't the above line be:

$ sudo make MM_DIR=/mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org

In other words, don't you have to provide the *absolute* patch to the install 
location?

In addition, I would think you would need to change PREFIX as well for the port 
to install where you want it to.

So, ISTM, you should be doing this:

$ sudo make PREFIX=/usr/local/mailman/vhost/lists.wilson-pta.org 
-DFORCE_PKG_REGISTER install

rather than trying to set MM_DIR.  Note you may *also* have to set MM_DIR, but 
I'm almost certain you need to set PREFIX if you want the port to install there 
instead of /usr/local/mailman.

The problem is, I'm not exactly sure *where* you want mailman to install, so 
it's hard to be correct without more information.

-- 
Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst
As if it wasn't already obvious, my opinions
are my own and not those of my employer.
*******************************************
"It is as useless to argue with those who have
renounced the use of reason as to administer
medication to the dead." Thomas Jefferson


From spawk at acm.poly.edu  Thu Aug 13 01:16:06 2009
From: spawk at acm.poly.edu (Boris Kochergin)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:16:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple instances of Mailman on FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <C2726724-3BBA-49BA-A1BA-8F2D25A90241@goldmark.org>
References: <70C7249E-1EC4-4D00-BECE-CD30B43436B5@goldmark.org>	<20090812154047.a77a1add.wmoran@potentialtech.com>	<200908121238.36253.mel.flynn+fbsd.ports@mailing.thruhere.net>
	<C2726724-3BBA-49BA-A1BA-8F2D25A90241@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <4A834D36.7040408@acm.poly.edu>

Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
> On Aug 12, 2009, at 3:38 PM, Mel Flynn wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday 12 August 2009 11:40:47 Bill Moran wrote:
>
>>> Were it me, I'd add jails to the system. [...] That's obviously not 
>>> the only way to get what you want, just my
>>> suggestion.
>>
>> And mine.
>
> Thank you and Bill for the jail suggestion.  I've never played with 
> jails, as I really only have one public IP address available.
You could assign each jail an RFC 1918 private address and perform NAT 
for them on the host system. I do this with PF and it works like a charm.

-Boris
>> FORCE_PKG_REGISTER abuse will hurt you sooner or later.
>
> I am living in fear of that.
>
>> If you must, then set PKG_DBDIR, PORT_DBDIR and PREFIX correctly.
>
> I don't understand the Package and Port databases well enough to 
> actually set them correctly, so I do suspect that I am causing trouble 
> for myself this way.
>
>> But things get much easier if you use seperate jails and a postfix in 
>> mailhub mode on the main IP
>> if you have only one incoming IP.
>
> Ah.  I hadn't thought of that.  I do only have one IP.  I hadn't 
> realized that I could set up private addresses on the same host.  
> Would the postfix on the main IP be able to run scripts that are on 
> individual jails?  If not, I'd have to set up a listening postfix in 
> each jail which would accept mail forwarded to it only from the main 
> IP.  For outgoing mail, mailman can talk SMTP to a "remote" mail 
> server.  Another point of confusion with jails is that the HTTP 
> interface for mailman would need to be on the public IP, but would 
> need to access the appropriate mailman data that live within jails.
>
> So I really think that unless I can do full jails, each with their own 
> SMTP and HTTP daemons on their own public IPs, this would be very 
> complicated to maintain.  But I am only guessing here as I don't 
> really know what can and can't be done easily with jails.
>
> Cheers,
>
> -j
>

From tbos at u.washington.edu  Thu Aug 13 16:17:10 2009
From: tbos at u.washington.edu (Teggy Maris)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 07:17:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exporting Mailman List Question
Message-ID: <6125B38E71497B40A67A8EAC5A9DB75306F61A2495@ads-mbx-02.exchange.washington.edu>

Hello,

I use mailman at the University of Washington. Has helped manage our email lists tremendously. Is there any way to export a mailman list into Excel or another program?

Thanks!

Teggy Maris
University of Washington, Human Resources
206-543-6966

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 14 19:29:07 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:29:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Question
In-Reply-To: <658ED0D02B943340A3A9ECCBD748399C01DE43C1@gptours.net>
Message-ID: <PC192200908141029070765264b68c4@msapiro>

Cherry Cooper wrote:
>
>Gptours mailing list administration
>Membership Management... Section
>
> 
>
>I am trying to upload all of the email addresses we have saved for a
>private mailing and can not find any instructions on how to do this


If you're asking how to import a file of addresses, see the Mass
Subscription page under the Membership Management... Section.

If you're asking how to format the list, see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/YoA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 14 19:34:48 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:34:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exporting Mailman List Question
In-Reply-To: <6125B38E71497B40A67A8EAC5A9DB75306F61A2495@ads-mbx-02.exchange.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <PC192200908141034480375b180bb67@msapiro>

Teggy Maris wrote:
>
>I use mailman at the University of Washington. Has helped manage our email lists tremendously. Is there any way to export a mailman list into Excel or another program?


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/aYA9>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 14 19:48:10 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:48:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting the Administrator's interface language
	tobe different to the default language of the subscribers?
In-Reply-To: <F8546B221A9A490BA414BC2AD10FDCA0@bushprius>
Message-ID: <PC1922009081410481005626724993c@msapiro>

Paul Hardy wrote:
>
>I am administrating a list for a group of blind users who speak Japanese. A
>new user's first encounter with the system must be in Japanese. Therefore,
>the default_language is set to Japanese. This means the Adminstrator's
>interface is also in Japanese. This is fine for the most part. However, it
>needs to be in English from time to time. When it is in English, new users
>will see an English-language welcome email. How can I force all new users to
>Japanese, whilst being able to select the Administrator's language at will?


If the new subscriber selects Japanese as her preferred language when
subscribing, confirmations and welcome messages should be in Japanese,
regardless of the list's default language.

There are problems with this however. Namely, there's no way to specify
a language when subscribing by email, and if the listinfo page is in
English, the Japanese speaking user may not understand she can specify
a language.

The second problem could be worked around by creating bi-lingual
listinfo templates, but there may be character set issues in this.

In order to actually force the language to Japanese for new members
regardless of the list's default language would require code
modification.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hellangel1984 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 00:24:44 2009
From: hellangel1984 at gmail.com (Angel Camacho Villan)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:24:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] disable change password
Message-ID: <fc91fbf90908141524g167bd171m5b0190c267736faf@mail.gmail.com>

hi list? somebody know
how to disable the options to change password for users?
thanks
-- 
2+2=5 dont try
  @..@
 (  ----  )     Angel Camacho Villan
( >__< )
^^  ~~ ^^

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 15 01:15:02 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:15:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] disable change password
In-Reply-To: <fc91fbf90908141524g167bd171m5b0190c267736faf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19220090814161502025072c42c7c@msapiro>

Angel Camacho Villan wrote:

>hi list? somebody know
>how to disable the options to change password for users?
>thanks


Are you trying to prevent the user from changing her own password or
prevent the list admin from changing a user's password. If the latter,
that is the default behavior in Mailman 2.1.10+ contingent on the
mm_cfg.py setting OWNERS_CAN_CHANGE_MEMBER_PASSWORDS.

So if you want to prevent list owners form changing member passwords
and your Mailman version is 2.1.10 or later, just make sure you don't
have "OWNERS_CAN_CHANGE_MEMBER_PASSWORDS = Yes" in mm_cfg.py.

Preventing this in older Mailman versions or preventing users from
changing their own passwords requires code modification.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From shop at justbrits.com  Sat Aug 15 19:21:47 2009
From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ")
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:21:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - a few questions
In-Reply-To: <PC19220090814065436000051a36ba4@msapiro>
References: <PC19220090814065436000051a36ba4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4A86EEAB.8080603@justbrits.com>

<<I confess, I only skimmed the OP and Stephen's original reply, and 
then got somewhat lost in the details in the follow-ups.>>

Mark, Stephen & Bill;

I have a serious feeling that Bill's situation is 'close' to a cPanel 
version of MM.

I poked around sonic.net and do NOT see anywhere either cPanel NOR MM
even mentioned !?!?

In all my 'provider' searching over the past couple of years one or the 
other or
both is ALWAY 'mentioned' or not.-:).

So IMHO Bill needs to tell The List not only the version of MM BUT the 
source of
install so that everybody is "playing with a FULL deck of cards".  
Right-:) ???

Ed
Stuck behind cPanel - LOL

From kop at meme.com  Sat Aug 15 20:55:04 2009
From: kop at meme.com (Karl O. Pinc)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:55:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Running two list with same email prefix
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009081208245009213a32cc4b@msapiro> (from
	mark@msapiro.net on Wed Aug 12 10:24:50 2009)
Message-ID: <1250362504.7556.1@mofo>

On 08/12/2009 10:24:50 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Andrea Cappelli wrote:
> 
> >I'm running a mail server with Debian Lenny, MTA is Postfix and i
> will
> >use postfix-to-mailma.py script to run list
> >
> >I would set up Mailman for running mailing list with same email
> prefix
> >on different domains, obvious with different list names
> >
> >For example we have ml.domain1.com and ml.domain2.net, i would like
> to
> >have
> >
> >LISTADDRESS 			LISTNAME
> >tech at ml.domain1.com 		tech-ml.domain1.com
> >tech at ml.domain.2.net 		tech-ml.domain2.net
> >
> >In this way i can have the same address on differente domains and
> >Mailman (my version is 2.1.11) can distinguish between lists because
> the
> >list name is different. The list name will be also used to access 
> web
> >interface, so we have
> >
> >http://ml.domain1.com/mailman/admin/tech-ml.domain1.com
> >http://ml.domain2.net/mailman/admin/tech-ml.domain2.net
> >
> >Is possible to accomplish this task? Any idea?
> 
> 
> Yes, it is possible to do this. What you describe is almost exactly
> what cPanel does in their modified Mailman. There are other patches
> around, but IMO, none are totally satisfactory. At least one user has
> recently posted that he is working on his own implementation.

I got it working without any patching with a small change
to postfix's configuration.

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg52616.html
> 
> This feature, but not necessarily this implementation, will be in MM
> 3.
> 
> The main thing you need to do is arange for mail delivery
> (postfix-to-mailman.py in your case) to deliver mail addressed to
> list at example.com, list-bounces at example.com, etc. and also
> list-bounces+xxx at example.com and list-confirm+xxx at example.com to the
> appropriate list-example.com list.
> 
> Then the fun begins. If you want the 'correct' address in the List-*
> headers, etc., that's a patch. Probably just to
> MailList.getListAddress().

I think the postfix rewrite rules in the above post fix this also.
I forget.  Of course when it comes to the web interface
there's lots of things that don't match up with how
things look to the email user.

Karl <kop at meme.com>
Free Software:  "You don't pay back, you pay forward."
                 -- Robert A. Heinlein


From measl at mfn.org  Mon Aug 17 04:55:44 2009
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:55:44 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Easiest way to move a list to a new domain?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908162154200.31266@mx1.mfn.org>


Greetings,

	We have a list that is likely to be changing domains, but not list 
names or IP, in the very near future.  Could you point me to a resource 
that show the best way to handle this?

Thanks!

//Alif
-- 
Yours,
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin_at_mfn.org
0xpgp_key_mgmt_is_broken-dont_bother

"Never belong to any party, always oppose privileged classes and public
plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to
the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always
be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by
predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty."

Joseph Pulitzer
1907 Speech

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 17 05:16:59 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:16:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Easiest way to move a list to a new domain?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908162154200.31266@mx1.mfn.org>
Message-ID: <PC19220090816201659053159c8e80e@msapiro>

J.A. Terranson wrote:
>
>	We have a list that is likely to be changing domains, but not list 
>names or IP, in the very near future.  Could you point me to a resource 
>that show the best way to handle this?


If the domain is already known to Mailman, just run fix_url. If not put
an add_virtualhost() in mm_cfg.py and then run fix_url. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/gIA9> and perhaps other FAQs  turned up by a
search for fix_url.

There will still be an issue in that links to the listinfo page from
the list's archive pages will have the old domain. The ones in the
overall table of contents and the current periodic indices will be
fixed automatically with the first archived post following the change,
but the older indices will not. You can edit them with a script or by
hand if there aren't too many, or you can rebuild the archive with
"bin/arch --wipe"

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From measl at mfn.org  Mon Aug 17 05:20:52 2009
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:20:52 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Easiest way to move a list to a new domain?
In-Reply-To: <PC19220090816201659053159c8e80e@msapiro>
References: <PC19220090816201659053159c8e80e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908162219550.31266@mx1.mfn.org>


On Sun, 16 Aug 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:

[Detailed directions!]

Thank you Mark!  As always, you are underpaid!

All the best,

//Alif
-- 
Yours,
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin_at_mfn.org
0xpgp_key_mgmt_is_broken-dont_bother

"Never belong to any party, always oppose privileged classes and public
plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to
the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always
be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by
predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty."

Joseph Pulitzer
1907 Speech

From a.cappelli at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 11:59:35 2009
From: a.cappelli at gmail.com (Andrea Cappelli)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 11:59:35 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Running two list with same email prefix
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009081208245009213a32cc4b@msapiro>
References: <PC1922009081208245009213a32cc4b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1250330375.14245.6.camel@vulcan>

Il giorno mer, 12/08/2009 alle 08.24 -0700, Mark Sapiro ha scritto:
> Andrea Cappelli wrote:
> This feature, but not necessarily this implementation, will be in MM 3.

Ok

> The main thing you need to do is arange for mail delivery
> (postfix-to-mailman.py in your case) to deliver mail addressed to
> list at example.com, list-bounces at example.com, etc. and also
> list-bounces+xxx at example.com and list-confirm+xxx at example.com to the
> appropriate list-example.com list.

So I have to create the list with the original name plus a unique
trailing and after create mail alias and let postfix rewrite the
destination from the alias to the real name before passing the mail to
mailman, correct?

> Then the fun begins. If you want the 'correct' address in the List-*
> headers, etc., that's a patch. Probably just to
> MailList.getListAddress().
> 
> If you are willing to use the list-example.com names for the web
> interface and elsewhere, that may be enough, but you will undoubtedly
> discover other things that need to be 'fixed'.

Thany you for the reply, I'll try and if i'll reach the goal i'll post
the solution here



From cs at clercscar.com  Mon Aug 17 19:25:28 2009
From: cs at clercscar.com (Adrean Clark)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:25:28 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Word Wrap
Message-ID: <50166.207.224.66.127.1250529928.squirrel@www.clercscar.com>

I'm still having trouble with word wrap.  I send out messages in plain
text, and I don't have the message editor enabled.  I've pasted a sample
message below.  Also notice in the first sentence of the article a > sign
was added.  It's not in the original -- where did that come from?  Thanks
for all your help.

Adrean


From:    "Clerc Scar" <clercscar at clercscar.com>

CLERC SCAR 8.1
17 August 2009

=====
Need to smile or laugh?
Check out deaf cartoons at http://www.mdaigletoons.com !
Need something to thank interpreters?
Order greeting cards at http://www.mdaigletoons.com/order.html !
Need a logo, illustration or graphic work for your business?
Check out artwork at http://www.mattdaigle.com !

All done by a deaf artist/cartoonist--Matt Daigle

=====
CHASING VISTAS 7
Melanie Bond
Words: 2,441
[Memoir]

Chapter 18
Amnicon Falls State Park

>From Little Girls Point, we headed west on U.S. Highway 2 and entered
northern Wisconsin. After two hours of driving, we passed a road sign
pointing toward Amnicon Falls State Park. On the spur of the moment, we
decided to stop and stretch our legs a bit. What a surprise it turned out
to be when we spotted not just one big waterfall but also many smaller
cascading falls! We all hurried down the steep rocky steps to stand close
to the Upper Falls and felt its misty spray and thunderous roar. It was
fascinating to watch the Amnicon River tumble downstream over many flat
layers of rock. With the sun hanging low in the sky, piercing flashes of
sunlight danced across the rippling waters like diamonds. The Amnicon
River descends 640 feet from its headwaters to Great Lake Superior. In the
past, as these rushing waters tumbled over rocky ledges, they broke off
more than 190 feet of rock exposing the Douglas Fault which is considered
to be a geologic wonder.

It had been the Ojibway Indians who had named the Amnicon River. It means
"where the fish spawn." The tannic acid-colored waters support the only
native muskie population in this region, as well as several species of
trout, salmon, walleye, and migrating steelhead.

Soon Dano pointed his finger downstream and cried out, "Mom, look the
other way! Can you see that bridge? I want to go on it! Can we?"

I turned to look and sure enough, it was there. But it wasn't just "a
bridge"--it was a 55-foot wood-covered foot bridge that spanned the Lower
Falls. What a quaint picture it was! We hurried over to the bridge and
crossed it, not realizing that we were crossing over to a little island.
This island was completely surrounded by cascading waterfalls. It was
amazing! Here, there were beautiful contrasting white birch trees and
aromatic evergreen trees. A nature trail circled around the perimeter of
this island. The three of us had fun hiking through the woods close to the
rocky cliff edges of this island.

When Dano started running up some rocks precariously close to the drop-off
ledges, Harvey shouted, "Dano, stop! You're too close to the edge! If you
had taken a fall into the rapids below, that'd be the end of you! Stay
close to us so that we can keep an eye on you!"

We all had to be careful when we rounded the steepest part of the island.
Here the trail was treacherously close to the edges. Feeling a little
winded, I spotted a nice sun-baked flat rock and suggested, "How about we
take a break and sit down for a few minutes so that I can catch my breath
and admire the views around here?"

We all plopped down on sun-warmed rocks, watched the cascading waters and
listened to its thundering rock music which seemed to soothe our souls.
Soon it was time to get moving again. We crossed back over the covered
bridge but took time to stop on the bridge and admire the views from both
sides. Looking upstream at the rocks above the Upper Falls, there was
black basalt rock over a billion years old. Looking downstream were red
sandstone believed to be 3,000 feet deep. Dano enjoyed the contrasting
color lines of black basalt rock and red sandstone and was able to collect
a tiny rock sample of each to take home with him.

Dano observed, "Mom, this is just like the black and pink sands that
wouldn't mix at Indian Lake!"

"That's right!" I exclaimed. "Isn't that interesting! What do you suppose
is the difference between these rocks and the sand at Indian Lake?"

He responded in his didactic manner, "Erosion."

That's my boy! As twilight began to fall, Harvey and I debated whether to
camp overnight in this state park. Both Dano and I were in favor of
staying here. But Harvey thought otherwise.

He stated, "I think it's best to continue driving to make up for lost time."

"What lost time?" I inquired. "Who's keeping track of time here? It's not
like we have to keep a schedule! Besides, we've had a full day already and
we're tired. So, why can't we just stay here?"

Harvey repeated himself, "I'm sorry, Mel, but I feel that we need to put
some miles on the road."

"But, Harvey!" I retorted. "I don't like driving at night! I can't see
anything! Besides, you have a hard time staying awake sometimes!"

Dano chimed in, "Dad, I agree with Mom! I want to stay here!"

Harvey had already made his mind up. It was no use trying to talk him out
of it. He was quite determined to put in some distance between Amnicon
Falls and God-knows-where-else-we-might-end-up!

If we had known then that our planned four-week trip would stretch into 12
glorious weeks, he might have reconsidered the matter. But not just now. I
thought to myself, What's one more day in the grand scheme of life?


Chapter 19
Missed Bridge Exit

Harvey was determined to leave Amnicon Falls State Park so that he could
put more miles on the road this evening. It was a short drive to the
Richard I. Bong Memorial Bridge connecting the twin port cities of
Superior, Wisconsin, and Duluth, Minnesota. Richard I. Bong was the Ace of
aces--the number one fighter pilot who flew on missions over Japan during
World War II. On this evening, we would bing-bong this bridge not once,
but twice!

The first time we crossed the Bong Bridge, we were too busy admiring the
views and not paying enough attention to road signs. It was natural to
want to look out at the beautiful St. Louis River to our left and at the
bay of Great Lake Superior to our right. What a spectacular view we caught
of the huge glowing red-orange sun rapidly sinking below the horizon on
the bay. The sun's last golden hues flashed, illuminating the white
topsails of an entire fleet of sailboats sailing on the bay. The view was
so captivating, so mesmerizing, and so peaceful that we completely missed
our exit. We never expected the exit ramp to descend below the bridge and
over the river rather than at the end of the bridge and on land.

When we reached the bottom of the bridge at Duluth, we found ourselves in
a dark and dreary ghetto-like downtown area. It appeared slummy and scary
at night. We couldn't seem to find any signs that would lead us back to
the highway that we needed to be on. Every twist and turn we took
dead-ended or went nowhere. We were stymied as to how we could find our
way out of this labyrinth. Where were the straight and narrow highways
when you needed one?

I pleaded with Harvey, "We're not getting anywhere, all we're doing is
going around in circles! Please stop and ask someone for directions!"

Harvey replied, "Mel, we'll find our way out soon, okay? Try not to panic
because I need to be able to concentrate on my driving."

But after a few more unsuccessful attempts to extricate ourselves from
this darkened city, I begged him one more time. "Harvey, please, just go
ask someone for directions! It'll save us time and all this running
around!"

Harvey responded, "All right, as soon as I can find a store or a gas
station, I'll go in and ask someone for directions."

He found a convenience store and as he jumped out of the van, I shouted
after him, "Don't forget to write the directions down!"

But, of course, he didn't write them down! He's like most men who are
often reluctant to ask for directions. Perhaps that takes all the fun out
of their hunting instinct! He soon returned to the van.

I asked, "Did you write the directions down?"

He responded, "Well, no! I didn't have a paper or a pen! It's complicated!
I can't remember everything the guy told me. Look, it's stressful driving
around in unfamiliar cities at night. I can't even read the street signs
unless I stop the car and get out! Do me a favor, try not to panic because
it only makes our situation worse. If you stress me out, I won't be able
to drive! I need you to be calm. We'll figure our way out of here, okay?"

"Okay!" I replied. "I won't say another word! I'll just close my eyes!"

And he did get us out, in a roundabout way. He caught sight of a road sign
for U.S. Highway 2 and took us back over the Bond Bridge--oops, the Bong
Bridge--to Superior, Wisconsin, even though it was facing the wrong
direction. But he had fully intended to do this so that we could retrace
our steps and figure out where we had gone wrong. He turned our van and
camper around and bing-bonged back across the bridge to Duluth, Minnesota.

He stated emphatically, "Now let's pay attention to the road signs here on
the bridge and watch for our exit sign, okay?"

Together, we watched for it carefully and there it was, our exit sign,
hanging down from the top of the bridge ironworks! And what a ride our
exit ramp turned out to be, as it looped down and around and under the
bridge, totally bypassing downtown Duluth. Thank God, we were now on our
way!


Chapter 20
The Darkest Night

Our jubilation upon leaving Duluth, Minnesota, didn't last long. For the
next treacherous 50 miles, we encountered concrete barriers, orange and
white construction barrels, orange cones and dark, unmarked rain-slicked
roads. A downpour made highway traveling extremely hazardous. I was
frightened and angry about the foolishness of driving through what turned
out to be the darkest night in Minnesota. Continuous road detours, dark
mounds of dirt piled high and roads which suddenly dropped off 3-5 inches
onto gravel roads startled and frightened us. There wasn't a single soul
in sight, not even the faintest hint of light from anywhere as the rain
continued to obscure our visibility. I felt as if we had been sucked into
a black hole along with the lights which emanated from our headlights. It
seemed as if any trace of light was swallowed up by the darkness. I was
terrified and started to panic.

Harvey stopped the car in the middle of the road to warn me, "Stop
panicking! I can't concentrate on where I'm going when you're like this! I
need you to be quiet because this is a dangerous area! I can't even see
the road five feet in front of me!"

That was exactly my point! Why were we driving?

I quieted down and said a quick prayer for our safety. Harvey drove at an
interminably slow, cautious speed. We came to a spot where he wasn't quite
sure if the dirt road here had just ended with no clearly defined detour
route to follow.

He stopped the van once again in the middle of the road and advised, "Lock
the van and don't open it up for anyone unless it's me!"

He then got out of the van to scout out the area in soaking rain until he
could figure out how the poorly marked road detour was set up. I started
worrying about all the "what ifs" anything should happen to him while he
was exposed to the elements. There was nothing I could do to help him if
he ran into any trouble. Much to my relief, he rapped on the window and I
quickly unlocked the door for him. I was glad to see him!

Dripping wet, he said, "I can't believe there aren't better road signs out
here to help guide us through this quagmire! But from what I can tell, I
think the road continues about a block or so, then turns right. Hopefully,
that'll take us back to the main highway."

And he was right. As soon as we had cleared the road construction zone,
relief poured through us. The crisis was over. At this time, we were all
hungry and tired. There was no restaurant or fast food stand for miles and
miles. This was not good! At about five minutes before 10:00 p.m., we came
to a 4-corner junction in the middle of nowhere. Harvey detected a faint
glow of light beyond the four corners. To our surprise we saw a burger
joint called Troy's. What a beautiful sight it was for sore eyes and
hungry bellies! It appeared as if the place was starting to close up for
the night.

But being as desperate as we were for some sustenance, Harvey told me,
"Mel, I've got to run in and make sure they're still opened up for
business. We can't take a chance on getting locked out!"

I watched Harvey as he quickly hurried over to the doors, found them
unlocked and went inside. That was a good sign!

He asked the servers at the counter, "Are you guys still open for
business? We haven't eaten for a long while. Perhaps we could get food to
go!"

Both servers replied, "No, no! You don't have to rush off! We'll stay open
for another half-an-hour so that you and your family can come in and sit
down, make yourselves comfortable and enjoy your meals!"

"Well, thank you!" Harvey replied. "I really appreciate that!"

He came back out to the van and told us the good news. We all hustled
inside and placed our food order. I was so grateful for the servers who
were willing to extend their hospitality an extra half hour for us. We
enjoyed our burgers, fries, onion rings, and malteds. What a glorious
grease joint it was! I imagined this joint standing in the middle of
endless corn fields though I didn't have the visual clues to tell me what
was REALLY out there!

Much to our regret, we missed out on the opportunity to visit and explore
Minnesota's many natural wonders. On this darkest of nights, Harvey drove
almost clear across the state of Minnesota. At around 11:30 p.m. with just
a few miles left to go before entering North Dakota, we finally pulled off
at a rest area and slept for a few hours in our van. It turned out to be a
chilly night and without a blanket to cover my bare legs and feet, I slept
rather fitfully trying to stay warm. In the morning, my aching knees were
rather annoyed with me!

[To be continued next week.]

=====
Melanie Bond is the moderator of several key discussion lists in the
deaf-blind community.

=====
We welcome letters to the editors in response to this piece. Send to
editor at clercscar.com. We reserve the right to edit letters for space and
clarity or not to publish a letter.

We are always open to submissions. Submit your writing, artwork, or video
to editor at clercscar.com.

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Visit our archives or bookstore at http://www.clercscar.com

Copyright 2009 by Clerc Scar. All rights reserved.






*****
Clerc Scar
Email Publication of the Signing Community
http://www.clercscar.com

From henry at blackforest.sprucemt.com  Tue Aug 18 04:31:52 2009
From: henry at blackforest.sprucemt.com (Henry Hartley)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:31:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating Lists
Message-ID: <20090818023152.GA19058@blackforest.sprucemt.com>

I have recently had a partial hard drive failure on my server. I installed CentOS 5.3 on a new hard drive and copied what I could from the old drive to the new, including, I think, everything that Mailman needs.

I can get into the web admin interface for my lists, see the various settings for them, see the archives, etc.

When I send mail to a list, however, it seems to go into a black hole. I get no response that there was a problem delivering the mail, the server's maillog shows that the message was received by the server, but the mail never seems to go out to the list. There is no message in the mailman/errors log.

Any suggestions of what to check would be most appreciated.

-- 
Henry


From Lily.Hewgley at TEXASBAR.COM  Mon Aug 17 19:27:51 2009
From: Lily.Hewgley at TEXASBAR.COM (Lily Hewgley)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:27:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] upgrade mailman
Message-ID: <36A4368CA1A6884090684A85633DB9361E7C9A13C4@auslcmail02.AUSLC.TEXASBAR.COM>

Hi.  We have version 2.1.11 and would like to upgrade, if possible.  Can you send me info and a link to your website, please.

Thanks.


Lily Hewgley
State Bar of Texas<http://www.texasbar.com/>
Web Designer - Sections
(512) 427-1423


From madannerack at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 17 19:26:32 2009
From: madannerack at yahoo.com (Dana Runkle)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:26:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about account ownership, etc.
Message-ID: <566189.44434.qm@web38107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi guys,

I am an officer in a non-profit organization that currently uses your wonderful software for mailing lists for our members, officers, programs, etc.

We've got a possible issue coming down the pike, and I am hoping someone there can give me some answers.

If something should happen to the volunteer who runs our email lists and we, the remaining officers, do not have access to the lists, what would Python need from us to prove ownership of said email lists and to transfer administrative control of all our lists to a new person?

Thanks,
Dana


      

From Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil  Mon Aug 17 20:45:38 2009
From: Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil (Hicks, Robert CTR)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:45:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 32  vs 64bit
Message-ID: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1036C02CB@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>

I am having to rebuild a mailman server. Are there any problems running mailman under a 64bit system?

Robert


From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com  Tue Aug 18 01:34:51 2009
From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:34:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installing Mailman Fails
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0908171630330.17983@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>

   I want to install Mailman here to replace majordomo for a few mail lists.
My system includes postfix-2.5.2 and httpd-2.2.12, as well as the latest
Mailman version downloaded at the end of last week.

   With the source in /usr/local/mailman I ran './configure
--with-mail-gid=postdrop --with-cgi-gid=apache' followed by 'make'. However,
when I tried 'make install' (as root) I get this:

   ...
/bin/ginstall: ./test_membership.py' and
/usr/local/mailman/tests/test_membership.py' are the same file
/bin/ginstall: ./test_message.py' and
/usr/local/mailman/tests/test_message.py' are the same file
/bin/ginstall: ./test_runners.py' and
/usr/local/mailman/tests/test_runners.py' are the same file
/bin/ginstall: ./test_safedict.py' and
/usr/local/mailman/tests/test_safedict.py' are the same file
/bin/ginstall: ./test_security_mgr.py' and
/usr/local/mailman/tests/test_security_mgr.py' are the same file
/bin/ginstall: ./test_smtp.py' and /usr/local/mailman/tests/test_smtp.py'
are the same file
/bin/ginstall: ./testall.py' and /usr/local/mailman/tests/testall.py' are
the same file
/bin/ginstall: ./EmailBase.py' and /usr/local/mailman/tests/EmailBase.py'
are the same file
/bin/ginstall: ./TestBase.py' and /usr/local/mailman/tests/TestBase.py' are
the same file
make[1]: *** [install] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory /usr/local/mailman/tests'
make: *** [doinstall] Error 2

    What do I do differently so the application installs?

Rich

From shawn.parker at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 05:04:37 2009
From: shawn.parker at gmail.com (shawn)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:04:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] exim4 + mailman on debian...unrouteable addresses?
Message-ID: <f191a5530908152004t7df0229ek7eb893ca7fd95c8f@mail.gmail.com>

i have a problem with this set up. i've searched and searched all over
and can't find a useful solution.

i have followed these documents

http://www.debian-administration.org/article/Mailman_and_Exim4
http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/140
http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html

exim4, procmail and maildir are all working fine. but, when we create
a mailman list and try to send to the list (e.g. mailman at example.com)
i receive an error saying the user/address is unrouteable?

web:~# exim4 -bt shawn at example.com
R: system_aliases for shawn at localhost
R: userforward for shawn at localhost
R: procmail for shawn at localhost
shawn at localhost
   <-- shawn at example.com
 router = procmail, transport = procmail_pipe
web:~#

but...

web:~# exim4 -bt mailman at example.com
mailman at example.com is undeliverable: Unrouteable address
web:~#

i have been banging my head against this for two days now and i can't
find anything that makes sense online?

any ideas?

do i need to add a "user" alias in each /etc/exim4/virtual/...
configuration? if i do that, then the mail delivers to what ever local
user i alias, but it won't post to the list?

From mihamina at gulfsat.mg  Tue Aug 18 09:59:18 2009
From: mihamina at gulfsat.mg (Rakotomandimby Mihamina)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:59:18 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 32  vs 64bit
In-Reply-To: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1036C02CB@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>
References: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1036C02CB@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>
Message-ID: <4A8A5F56.9040905@gulfsat.mg>

08/17/2009 09:45 PM, Hicks, Robert CTR::
> I am having to rebuild a mailman server. Are there any problems running mailman under a 64bit system?

We have no problems with 64 bit and Mailman.
~150 users subscribed.

-- 
       Architecte Informatique chez Blueline/Gulfsat:
    Administration Systeme, Recherche & Developpement
                                    +261 34 29 155 34

From mihamina at gulfsat.mg  Tue Aug 18 10:00:16 2009
From: mihamina at gulfsat.mg (Rakotomandimby Mihamina)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:00:16 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installing Mailman Fails
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0908171630330.17983@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0908171630330.17983@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
Message-ID: <4A8A5F90.7040703@gulfsat.mg>

08/18/2009 02:34 AM, Rich Shepard:
> With the source in /usr/local/mailman I ran './configure

No way to ninstall it from you OS package manager?

-- 
       Architecte Informatique chez Blueline/Gulfsat:
    Administration Systeme, Recherche & Developpement
                                    +261 34 29 155 34

From mihamina at gulfsat.mg  Tue Aug 18 10:01:35 2009
From: mihamina at gulfsat.mg (Rakotomandimby Mihamina)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:01:35 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating Lists
In-Reply-To: <20090818023152.GA19058@blackforest.sprucemt.com>
References: <20090818023152.GA19058@blackforest.sprucemt.com>
Message-ID: <4A8A5FDF.2040804@gulfsat.mg>

08/18/2009 05:31 AM, Henry Hartley:
> When I send mail to a list, however, it seems to go into a black hole. I get no response that there was a problem delivering the mail, the server's maillog shows that the message was received by the server, but the mail never seems to go out to the list. There is no message in the mailman/errors log.

/etc/aliases?
I sawa no mention of it in your post...

-- 
       Architecte Informatique chez Blueline/Gulfsat:
    Administration Systeme, Recherche & Developpement
                                    +261 34 29 155 34

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Aug 18 11:01:05 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:01:05 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Question about account ownership, etc.
In-Reply-To: <566189.44434.qm@web38107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <566189.44434.qm@web38107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <87ljlh1ooe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Dana Runkle writes:

 > If something should happen to the volunteer who runs our email
 > lists and we, the remaining officers, do not have access to the
 > lists, what would Python need from us to prove ownership of said
 > email lists and to transfer administrative control of all our lists
 > to a new person?

Neither Python nor Mailman has any relation to the data in your list.
Python provides a software development environment, and Mailman
provides mailing list management and post distribution software.  This
software is distributed under "open source" licenses, so that anybody
can download and use it without further permission from Python or
Mailman (subject to certain mild restrictions on redistribution).

However, the software actually runs on somebody else's computer, and
almost certainly, that is where your data is stored as well.  To get
access to that, you need to get access to that computer.

In many cases, the computer in question is owned and managed by an ISP
rather than as somebody's personal property.  In that case you need to
find out who the ISP is, and contact them.  ISPs are a somewhat
regulated part of the telecommunications industry, but they are
responsible primarily to the person who pays them, presumably your
volunteer.  If the lists are hosted, and data stored, on a computer
owned and operated by your volunteer, you will need to deal with that
person more or less directly.

If you don't know the ISP, anybody with a little bit of network
expertise (including most Linux or Unix users) can help you trace
posts back to the distribution point.

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Aug 18 11:04:50 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:04:50 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Installing Mailman Fails
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0908171630330.17983@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0908171630330.17983@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
Message-ID: <87k5111oi5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Rich Shepard writes:
 >    I want to install Mailman here to replace majordomo for a few mail lists.
 > My system includes postfix-2.5.2 and httpd-2.2.12, as well as the latest
 > Mailman version downloaded at the end of last week.
 > 
 >    With the source in /usr/local/mailman

Move that whole directory and all its contents to /usr/local/src/mailman.

AIUI, Mailman is not designed to be run from the source directory, and
by default it installs into /usr/local/mailman.  So you're trying to
overwrite the source with itself, usually a bad idea for a number of
reasons.

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Tue Aug 18 12:39:04 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:39:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] exim4 + mailman on debian...unrouteable
	addresses?
In-Reply-To: <f191a5530908152004t7df0229ek7eb893ca7fd95c8f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f191a5530908152004t7df0229ek7eb893ca7fd95c8f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090818103903.GV30597@amyl.org.uk>

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 10:04:37PM -0500, shawn wrote:
> i have a problem with this set up. i've searched and searched all over
> and can't find a useful solution.
> 
> i have followed these documents
> 
> http://www.debian-administration.org/article/Mailman_and_Exim4
> http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/140
> http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html
> 
> exim4, procmail and maildir are all working fine. but, when we create
> a mailman list and try to send to the list (e.g. mailman at example.com)
> i receive an error saying the user/address is unrouteable?

first of all, i'll start with a pet-hate: the travesty of split-file
configuration and Pkg-exim4.

secondly, I presume you've config'd mm_cfg.py to "MTA = None", created
the site-list, and started the Mailman runners?

> web:~# exim4 -bt mailman at example.com
> mailman at example.com is undeliverable: Unrouteable address

This is possibly where obscurating your mail domains is an hinderance.

Is example.com listed in your exim config as a mailman domain: i'd
suggest just using *one* guide, and the Exim one is probably one of
the saner approaches out there (it's what I'd use).

Are you using the "exim4-daemon-heavy", too?

Remember, the order of routers is significant, so ensure the Mailman
router's in the right place in your config file.

Is the transport set to run with the appropriate user/group for
Mailman (normally, if you've used Debian packages, this will be
'list:list')

> do i need to add a "user" alias in each /etc/exim4/virtual/...
> configuration? if i do that, then the mail delivers to what ever local
> user i alias, but it won't post to the list?

That depends on how you've set things up: if you've used Nigel's &c
guide, per exim.org, then no: it's all handled elsewhere in the
config.

It's probably worth running something like 

    "exim -C /etc/exim/configure -bV"

    ("/etc/exim4/exim4.conf" may be more appropriate for you: I've been
    known to build my own exims on debian boxes.)

to check your config files are in working order: and if you've not
HUP'd the exim daemon since fiddling with the config, that too.

If you're using a monolithic exim4.conf/configure file, shove it
somewhere, and I'll have a look at it for you.

-- 
"The lamps are going out all over Europe; we shall not 
 see them lit again in our lifetime."
     (Attrib. Edward Grey, 1914)

From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Tue Aug 18 12:50:59 2009
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (tanstaafl at libertytrek.org)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 06:50:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Word Wrap
In-Reply-To: <50166.207.224.66.127.1250529928.squirrel@www.clercscar.com>
References: <50166.207.224.66.127.1250529928.squirrel@www.clercscar.com>
Message-ID: <4A8A8793.6030900@libertytrek.org>

On 8/17/2009, Adrean Clark (cs at clercscar.com) wrote:
> Also notice in the first sentence of the article a > sign was added.
> It's not in the original -- where did that come from? Thanks for all
> your help.

Aside from the spurious '>' character (what client di you use to
compose/send it?), whats the problem? The rest looked fine to me...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 18 16:56:44 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 07:56:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Running two list with same email prefix
In-Reply-To: <1250330375.14245.6.camel@vulcan>
Message-ID: <PC192200908180756440062c6f4a06a@msapiro>

Andrea Cappelli wrote:
>
>So I have to create the list with the original name plus a unique
>trailing and after create mail alias and let postfix rewrite the
>destination from the alias to the real name before passing the mail to
>mailman, correct?


You don't want Postfix to rewrite the name. That's more complicated
than you need and not what you want anyway because it would expose the
'true' name in the To: header of outgoing posts.

What you do is the following:

For listx in domain example.com, you create the list as
listx_example.com or however you want to append domain to name to make
it unique. You also add listx at example.com to acceptable_aliases for
the listx_example.com list.

For postfix, considering only the list posting address (the others are
similar) In the normal case for the listx at example.com list you would
have a virtual_alias_maps entry like

listx at example.com   listx

and an alias_maps entry like

listx: "|/path/to/wrapper post listx"

Instead of these, you would have a virtual_alias_maps entry like

listx at example.com   listx_example.com

and an alias_maps entry like

listx_example.com: "|/path/to/wrapper post listx_example.com"

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From b19141 at anl.gov  Tue Aug 18 17:11:45 2009
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:11:45 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 32  vs 64bit
In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Hicks, Robert CTR" <Robert.L.Hicks@uscg.mil>'
	dated: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:45:38 -0400
Message-ID: <20090818151145.3C534175A2@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

"Hicks, Robert CTR" <Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil> wrote:

>I am having to rebuild a mailman server. Are there any problems running
>mailman under a 64bit system?

I run Mailman on a Linux amd64 server.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 18 17:16:05 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:16:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Word Wrap
In-Reply-To: <50166.207.224.66.127.1250529928.squirrel@www.clercscar.com>
Message-ID: <PC19220090818081605010934f889f2@msapiro>

Adrean Clark wrote:

>I'm still having trouble with word wrap.  I send out messages in plain
>text, and I don't have the message editor enabled.  I've pasted a sample
>message below.  Also notice in the first sentence of the article a > sign
>was added.  It's not in the original -- where did that come from?  Thanks
>for all your help.
[...]
>=====
>CHASING VISTAS 7
>Melanie Bond
>Words: 2,441
>[Memoir]
>
>Chapter 18
>Amnicon Falls State Park
>
>>From Little Girls Point, we headed west on U.S. Highway 2 and entered
>northern Wisconsin. After two hours of driving, we passed a road sign
[...]

Taking your second question first, lines that begin with "From " are
special message separators in many kinds of mailbox files. Thus, when
the body of a mail message contains a line that begins with "From "
various mail handling software will munge that line, most often by
placing '>' in front of it, but sometimes in quoted-printable encoded
parts, by encoding the F as =46.

In your case, this escaping of the From to >From probably was done by
your mail client or by a transfer agent before it got to Mailman, but
if is reached Mailman unescaped, Mailman would have escaped it upon
sending the message.

As far as the word wrap issue is concerned, I don't understand the
problem. If you are saying that the two lines I quote above together
with the rest of that paragraph were typed by you as one long line
without any "hard returns" and came back to you as you posted - i.e.
wrapped to about a 75 character width - all I can tell you is Mailman
didn't do that wrapping. Either the text was wrapped, probably by your
mail client, befor it got to Mailman, or it was wrapped after it left
Mailman. You should be able to see which by looking at the message in
Mailman's archive.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 18 17:22:02 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:22:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating Lists
In-Reply-To: <20090818023152.GA19058@blackforest.sprucemt.com>
Message-ID: <PC1922009081808220200008432c6c2@msapiro>

Henry Hartley wrote:
>
>When I send mail to a list, however, it seems to go into a black hole. I get no response that there was a problem delivering the mail, the server's maillog shows that the message was received by the server, but the mail never seems to go out to the list. There is no message in the mailman/errors log.


Is Mailman running (service mailman start or however you start it on
your machine)?

If that isn't the answer, see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Tue Aug 18 17:22:58 2009
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:22:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about account ownership, etc.
In-Reply-To: <566189.44434.qm@web38107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <566189.44434.qm@web38107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1B35D162-BF76-4AA2-969E-53DB1ED89972@goldmark.org>

On Aug 17, 2009, at 12:26 PM, Dana Runkle wrote:

> If something should happen to the volunteer who runs our email lists  
> and we, the remaining officers, do not have access to the lists,  
> what would Python need from us to prove ownership of said email  
> lists and to transfer administrative control of all our lists to a  
> new person?

Mailman has a "site administrator" password.  Ideally, the person who  
operates things now can just let you know what that password is.  With  
that password, you can do all of the list administration, including  
creating lists and resetting list passwords.

If you cannot get that from the current site administrator, then you  
(or someone on your behalf) needs to be able to log on (shell access)  
to the machine running Mailman.  In the mailman directory, there will  
be a subdirectory called bin.  Use the command there

   ./mmsitepass  NEW-PASSWORD

The user on the host who runs that command-line command will need to  
have appropriate privileges.  If you don't have those, you will need  
to talk to whoever (hosting company?) runs that machine.

-j



-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From b19141 at anl.gov  Tue Aug 18 17:24:35 2009
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:24:35 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Word Wrap
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'tanstaafl@libertytrek.org'
	dated: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 06:50:59 -0400
Message-ID: <20090818152435.AF946175A2@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

On 8/17/2009, Adrean Clark (cs at clercscar.com) wrote:
> Also notice in the first sentence of the article a > sign was added.
> It's not in the original -- where did that come from? Thanks for all
> your help.
>
> ...
>
> >From Little Girls Point, we headed ...

This is standard MBOX formatting rules.  The beginning of each mail
message in an mbox-formatted file has this

     From user at example.com Mon Jul 27 20:15:30 2009

The first five characters in this line are

     "From "

This separates this message from the one above it.  I do not
remember if there needs to be a null or blank line before this
separator line.  Because of this, any line in the body of the mail
that begins with "From " (note the upper-case "F") must be changed
so that the line does not get treated as an mbox-separator line.
The convention is to prefix the line with ">", as you saw.  A
blank character would have also worked.

Note that persons frequently post problems with creating/re-building
a Mailman list archive.  These problems sometimes are caused by
"From " lines that are not separators but which have not been modified
per the mbox "standard".

Also note that this is not a "word wrap" problem, as implied in the
"Subject" line.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 18 17:30:22 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:30:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] upgrade mailman
In-Reply-To: <36A4368CA1A6884090684A85633DB9361E7C9A13C4@auslcmail02.AUSLC.TEXASBAR.COM>
Message-ID: <PC192200908180830220093aabd18f3@msapiro>

Lily Hewgley wrote:

>Hi.  We have version 2.1.11 and would like to upgrade, if possible.  Can you send me info and a link to your website, please.


Start at <http://www.list.org/> or if you are running a vendor package,
see if the vendor has an upgraded package available.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From measl at mfn.org  Tue Aug 18 22:18:55 2009
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:18:55 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Odd broken link after domain move
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908181516110.24049@mx1.mfn.org>


Hi Python Mail Gurus!

	I followed the prior advice to move a list from domain.001 to 
domain.002, and except for one thing, everything appears *peefect*!

	In the [now corrected] archives, at the very bottom of the page is 
a broken link entitled:

	" More info on this list... "

This is the only link that didnt convert to the new domain.  Any way to 
fix it without vi?

Thanks again! 
//Allif
-- 
Yours,
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin_at_mfn.org
0xpgp_key_mgmt_is_broken-dont_bother

"Never belong to any party, always oppose privileged classes and public
plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to
the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always
be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by
predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty."

Joseph Pulitzer
1907 Speech

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 18 23:03:08 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:03:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Odd broken link after domain move
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908181516110.24049@mx1.mfn.org>
Message-ID: <PC1922009081814030808128ebdddb4@msapiro>

J.A. Terranson wrote:
>
>	In the [now corrected] archives, at the very bottom of the page is 
>a broken link entitled:
>
>	" More info on this list... "
>
>This is the only link that didnt convert to the new domain.  Any way to 
>fix it without vi?


Please reread the last paragraph of my earlier reply at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-August/066831.html>.
This is exactly what that attempts to address.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From fmouse at fmp.com  Tue Aug 18 23:18:54 2009
From: fmouse at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:18:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Odd broken link after domain move
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908181516110.24049@mx1.mfn.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908181516110.24049@mx1.mfn.org>
Message-ID: <1250630334.22596.25.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>

These are hard-coded into the archive files,
$VAR_PREFIX/archives/private/[listname]/[index|author|thread|subject|
date].html.  You'll need to do a search and replace on all of these in
order to fully convert the archives.

On Tue, 2009-08-18 at 15:18 -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote:
> Hi Python Mail Gurus!
> 
> 	I followed the prior advice to move a list from domain.001 to 
> domain.002, and except for one thing, everything appears *peefect*!
> 
> 	In the [now corrected] archives, at the very bottom of the page is 
> a broken link entitled:
> 
> 	" More info on this list... "
> 
> This is the only link that didnt convert to the new domain.  Any way to 
> fix it without vi?
> 
> Thanks again! 
> //Allif
-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Everything works if you let it"
FMP Computer Services |   (The Roadie)
512-259-1190          |
http://www.fmp.com    |


From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Tue Aug 18 23:19:54 2009
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:19:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Odd broken link after domain move
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908181516110.24049@mx1.mfn.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0908181516110.24049@mx1.mfn.org>
Message-ID: <1250630394.22596.26.camel@vishnu.fmp.com>

These are hard-coded into the archive files,
$VAR_PREFIX/archives/private/[listname]/[index|author|thread|subject|
date].html.  You'll need to do a search and replace on all of these in
order to fully convert the archives.

On Tue, 2009-08-18 at 15:18 -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote:
> Hi Python Mail Gurus!
> 
> 	I followed the prior advice to move a list from domain.001 to 
> domain.002, and except for one thing, everything appears *peefect*!
> 
> 	In the [now corrected] archives, at the very bottom of the page is 
> a broken link entitled:
> 
> 	" More info on this list... "
> 
> This is the only link that didnt convert to the new domain.  Any way to 
> fix it without vi?
> 
> Thanks again! 
> //Allif
-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Everything works if you let it"
FMP Computer Services |   (The Roadie)
512-259-1190          |
http://www.fmp.com    |


From jeffg at turners.com  Wed Aug 19 03:36:02 2009
From: jeffg at turners.com (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:36:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Template Question
Message-ID: <A05D18ED823F7348B124F8F9729E0D97B3DBD8@hq-srv-ex-01.turners.local>

I am moving my Mailman 2.1.12 installation from an old Mac OS X box to a
freshly installed Debian stable machine.  I am running Mailman 2.1.12
from testing.  I copied over my lists directory and seem to have a
problem with the templates.  I have some customized templates in the en
directory of each mailing list in the lists directory.  Mailman does not
seem to be using those customized templates, but using the generic ones.
I thought the ones in each mailing list directory was always the first
used?  Or is it something with the way Debian setups up Mailman?  Any
help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Jeff


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 19 04:48:58 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:48:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Template Question
In-Reply-To: <A05D18ED823F7348B124F8F9729E0D97B3DBD8@hq-srv-ex-01.turners.local>
Message-ID: <PC192200908181948580906c1ffe704@msapiro>

Jeff Grossman wrote:

>I am moving my Mailman 2.1.12 installation from an old Mac OS X box to a
>freshly installed Debian stable machine.  I am running Mailman 2.1.12
>from testing.  I copied over my lists directory and seem to have a
>problem with the templates.  I have some customized templates in the en
>directory of each mailing list in the lists directory.  Mailman does not
>seem to be using those customized templates, but using the generic ones.
>I thought the ones in each mailing list directory was always the first
>used?  Or is it something with the way Debian setups up Mailman?  Any
>help would be appreciated.


If these are 'archive' templates you definitely need to restart Mailman
after installing them as they are cached in ArchRunner. You shouldn't
need to do this for 'web' templates and probably not for 'email'
templates, but it wouldn't hurt. Also, cronpass.txt isn't associated
with a list so it doesn't work in any lists/LISTNAME/en directory,
even the site list's. If you have restarted Mailman after putting
templates in lists/LISTNAME/en, and they still aren't being picked up,
then I don't know what the problem is. I don't think it's a Debianism.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cs at clercscar.com  Tue Aug 18 19:39:51 2009
From: cs at clercscar.com (Adrean Clark)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:39:51 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Word Wrap
Message-ID: <49566.207.224.66.127.1250617191.squirrel@www.clercscar.com>


Word wrap was forced.  The text I pasted was not supposed to have line
breaks, it was supposed to fit the width of the mail program.  Plain text
usually runs the width of the screen it's on  -- that's what I want, not
forced line ends.  Hope I'm making sense.

I checked the archives and the line breaks were there.

So it must be my mail program that's causing the problem?  I tried sending
the same message from Google mail and my SquirrelMail program -- both had
the hard wrap.

Adrean




*****
Clerc Scar
Email Publication of the Signing Community
http://www.clercscar.com

From draves at bard.edu  Tue Aug 18 15:54:22 2009
From: draves at bard.edu (Richard Draves)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:54:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about account ownership, etc.
In-Reply-To: <87ljlh1ooe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <566189.44434.qm@web38107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<87ljlh1ooe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4A8AB28E.1040100@bard.edu>

I can envision where the question is coming from - because we deal with 
the same fears.

Our employees manage the lists and mailman software. Our other employees 
manage the servers and the network.

If we loose an employee with the password to mailman, how do we carry 
on? The data is 'locked' behind a now lost password. How do we reset the 
password, when the real password is gone?

Thanks!

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Dana Runkle writes:
>
>  > If something should happen to the volunteer who runs our email
>  > lists and we, the remaining officers, do not have access to the
>  > lists, what would Python need from us to prove ownership of said
>  > email lists and to transfer administrative control of all our lists
>  > to a new person?
>
> Neither Python nor Mailman has any relation to the data in your list.
> Python provides a software development environment, and Mailman
> provides mailing list management and post distribution software.  This
> software is distributed under "open source" licenses, so that anybody
> can download and use it without further permission from Python or
> Mailman (subject to certain mild restrictions on redistribution).
>
> However, the software actually runs on somebody else's computer, and
> almost certainly, that is where your data is stored as well.  To get
> access to that, you need to get access to that computer.
>
> In many cases, the computer in question is owned and managed by an ISP
> rather than as somebody's personal property.  In that case you need to
> find out who the ISP is, and contact them.  ISPs are a somewhat
> regulated part of the telecommunications industry, but they are
> responsible primarily to the person who pays them, presumably your
> volunteer.  If the lists are hosted, and data stored, on a computer
> owned and operated by your volunteer, you will need to deal with that
> person more or less directly.
>
> If you don't know the ISP, anybody with a little bit of network
> expertise (including most Linux or Unix users) can help you trace
> posts back to the distribution point.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/draves%40bard.edu
>
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>   

-- 
Have a Good day!

Dick Draves
System Administrator
Bard College

845-758-7119

Note: Bard Information Technology Services will *NEVER* request
passwords or other personal information via email.  Messages
requesting such information are fraudulent.

No trees were harmed in the sending of this message,
but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Please don't print this email unless it is absolutely critical.


From grayarea at reddagger.org  Wed Aug 19 04:29:29 2009
From: grayarea at reddagger.org (John Withers)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:29:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounces not resetting...
Message-ID: <1250648969.19592.24.camel@firefly>

Folks,

I have a problem in that user's bounces aren't resetting. The
bounce_info_stale after value seems to be being ignored. I have users
who's last bounce was in 2005 and we have sent literally thousands of
emails to them since then. Th bounce_info_stale_after value is 7. But
they are still showing 10 bounces from 2005 and prior.

Could anyone tell me why this would happen and how I might be able to
prevent it in the future?

-John Withers


From henry at blackforest.sprucemt.com  Tue Aug 18 16:36:22 2009
From: henry at blackforest.sprucemt.com (Henry Hartley)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:36:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating Lists
In-Reply-To: <4A8A5FDF.2040804@gulfsat.mg>
References: <20090818023152.GA19058@blackforest.sprucemt.com>
	<4A8A5FDF.2040804@gulfsat.mg>
Message-ID: <20090818143622.GC9620@blackforest.sprucemt.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:01:35AM +0300, Rakotomandimby Mihamina wrote:
> 08/18/2009 05:31 AM, Henry Hartley:
> >When I send mail to a list, however, it seems to go into a black hole. I 
> >get no response that there was a problem delivering the mail, the server's 
> >maillog shows that the message was received by the server, but the mail 
> >never seems to go out to the list. There is no message in the 
> >mailman/errors log.
> 
> /etc/aliases?
> I sawa no mention of it in your post...

No, I remembered that part. Aliases are set correctly.

-- 
Henry


From henry at blackforest.sprucemt.com  Tue Aug 18 20:04:14 2009
From: henry at blackforest.sprucemt.com (Henry Hartley)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:04:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating Lists
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009081808220200008432c6c2@msapiro>
References: <20090818023152.GA19058@blackforest.sprucemt.com>
	<PC1922009081808220200008432c6c2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20090818180414.GA13921@blackforest.sprucemt.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 08:22:02AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Is Mailman running (service mailman start or however you start it on
> your machine)?

See, I knew it was going to be something stupid that I forgot. I feel like an idiot. Thanks for your time.

-- 
Henry


From rob.macgregor at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 13:07:56 2009
From: rob.macgregor at gmail.com (Rob MacGregor)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:07:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Word Wrap
In-Reply-To: <50166.207.224.66.127.1250529928.squirrel@www.clercscar.com>
References: <50166.207.224.66.127.1250529928.squirrel@www.clercscar.com>
Message-ID: <43ea8d070908180407s51c0df40nb630b15ffcdb505a@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 18:25, Adrean Clark<cs at clercscar.com> wrote:
> I'm still having trouble with word wrap. ?I send out messages in plain
> text, and I don't have the message editor enabled. ?I've pasted a sample
> message below. ?Also notice in the first sentence of the article a > sign
> was added. ?It's not in the original -- where did that come from? ?Thanks
> for all your help.
<---SNIP--->
> >From Little Girls Point, we headed west on U.S. Highway 2 and entered

That's an artifact of the mail system in use.  In the very old days
that was used to avoid mail systems thinking it was another From:
header.  Some unix mail systems still escape it this way, I'm guessing
yours is one.  I'm sure you'll find it documented in one of the many
RFCs, somewhere.

As for wrapping, as you copy-and-pasted it there's no way for anybody
to say anything meaningful ;)  If you were to attach a sent message
then people may be able to say more.

-- 
                 Please keep list traffic on the list.

Rob MacGregor
      Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he
        doesn't become a monster.                  Friedrich Nietzsche

From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com  Tue Aug 18 15:04:56 2009
From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 06:04:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installing Mailman Fails
In-Reply-To: <4A8A5F90.7040703@gulfsat.mg>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0908171630330.17983@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<4A8A5F90.7040703@gulfsat.mg>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0908180604030.13888@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009, Rakotomandimby Mihamina wrote:

> No way to ninstall it from you OS package manager?

   Unfortunately, no. I looked on the SlackBuilds.org Web site but they do
not have a script for Mailman.

Rich

From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com  Tue Aug 18 15:07:57 2009
From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 06:07:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installing Mailman Fails
In-Reply-To: <87k5111oi5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0908171630330.17983@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<87k5111oi5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0908180605380.13888@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> Move that whole directory and all its contents to /usr/local/src/mailman.
>
> AIUI, Mailman is not designed to be run from the source directory, and by
> default it installs into /usr/local/mailman.  So you're trying to
> overwrite the source with itself, usually a bad idea for a number of
> reasons.

Stephen,

   OK. I was following the directions in the mailman-install.pdf. I'm
surprised no mention was made of creating /usr/local/src/ and installing
mailman there.

Thanks,

Rich

From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com  Tue Aug 18 16:56:06 2009
From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 07:56:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installing Mailman Fails
In-Reply-To: <87k5111oi5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0908171630330.17983@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<87k5111oi5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0908180751130.13888@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> Move that whole directory and all its contents to /usr/local/src/mailman.
>
> AIUI, Mailman is not designed to be run from the source directory, and by
> default it installs into /usr/local/mailman.  So you're trying to
> overwrite the source with itself, usually a bad idea for a number of
> reasons.

Stephen,

   That's amazing! The installation instructions need to be changed to
reflect this. What the step-by-step instructions should read is:

 	mkdir /usr/local/mailman
 	mkdir -p /usr/local/src/mailman

 	untar the downloaded tarball in the latter directory

 	cd /usr/local/src/mailman

 	run ./configure & make & make install in that directory.

   This puts all the necessary files in /usr/local/mailman.

   Final question on installation: can I now delete /usr/local/src/?

Thanks,

Rich

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Aug 19 08:56:19 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:56:19 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installing Mailman Fails
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0908180751130.13888@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0908171630330.17983@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<87k5111oi5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0908180751130.13888@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
Message-ID: <873a7o1ecs.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Rich Shepard writes:

 >    Final question on installation: can I now delete /usr/local/src/?

Yes, you can.  I usually don't, as source trees often contain random
bits of documentation and information that don't get copied to the
install tree.  Backup to a CD before removing would be a good compromise.

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Aug 19 09:07:17 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:07:17 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about account ownership, etc.
In-Reply-To: <4A8AB28E.1040100@bard.edu>
References: <566189.44434.qm@web38107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<87ljlh1ooe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<4A8AB28E.1040100@bard.edu>
Message-ID: <871vn81dui.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Richard Draves writes:

 > If we loose an employee with the password to mailman, how do we
 > carry on? The data is 'locked' behind a now lost password. How do
 > we reset the password, when the real password is gone?

As long as you have shell access to the mailman installation, you can
change the site password with /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mmsitepass (may be
located elsewhere depending on your installation).  That allows access
to all admin screens, from which you can do anything, including
resetting passwords.  I don't recall offhand where the various
password resetting options are.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Aug 19 09:16:12 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:16:12 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Word Wrap
In-Reply-To: <49566.207.224.66.127.1250617191.squirrel@www.clercscar.com>
References: <49566.207.224.66.127.1250617191.squirrel@www.clercscar.com>
Message-ID: <87zl9wz32b.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Adrean Clark writes:
 > 
 > Word wrap was forced.  The text I pasted was not supposed to have line
 > breaks, it was supposed to fit the width of the mail program.  Plain text
 > usually runs the width of the screen it's on  -- that's what I want, not
 > forced line ends.  Hope I'm making sense.

Are you sending *only* plain text?  I seem to recall an issue where
text could get reformatted in cases where a message had both plain and
HTML parts, and the HTML part was stripped/converted to plain text.
That was due to the external application used to convert.

Still, as Mark says AFAIK there's no code in Mailman to insert line
breaks.  It may be some other software, even a virus scanner or the
like (should not happen, but stuff like that does, sometimes), in the
mail pipeline.


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 19 16:45:08 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:45:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Word Wrap
In-Reply-To: <49566.207.224.66.127.1250617191.squirrel@www.clercscar.com>
Message-ID: <PC192200908190745080390a18df68e@msapiro>

Adrean Clark wrote:
>
>So it must be my mail program that's causing the problem?  I tried sending
>the same message from Google mail and my SquirrelMail program -- both had
>the hard wrap.


Both Google Mail and Squirrel Mail wrap messages. Look at the message
in your sent mail or sent folder. You'll see it wrapped there.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 19 16:50:30 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:50:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounces not resetting...
In-Reply-To: <1250648969.19592.24.camel@firefly>
Message-ID: <PC192200908190750300453a10406a3@msapiro>

John Withers wrote:
>
>I have a problem in that user's bounces aren't resetting. The
>bounce_info_stale after value seems to be being ignored. I have users
>who's last bounce was in 2005 and we have sent literally thousands of
>emails to them since then. Th bounce_info_stale_after value is 7. But
>they are still showing 10 bounces from 2005 and prior.
>
>Could anyone tell me why this would happen and how I might be able to
>prevent it in the future?


The stale bounce info is not reset until another bounce arrives. Thus,
old bounce info usually remains forever, but it does no harm. If a new
bounce arrives, the stale info will be forgotten and the user given a
score of 1 with the current date.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 19 17:02:49 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:02:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installing Mailman Fails
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0908180751130.13888@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
Message-ID: <PC192200908190802490281a1a5b98a@msapiro>

Rich Shepard wrote:
>
>   That's amazing! The installation instructions need to be changed to
>reflect this. What the step-by-step instructions should read is:
>
> 	mkdir /usr/local/mailman
> 	mkdir -p /usr/local/src/mailman
>
> 	untar the downloaded tarball in the latter directory
>
> 	cd /usr/local/src/mailman
>
> 	run ./configure & make & make install in that directory.
>
>   This puts all the necessary files in /usr/local/mailman.


The directory into which you unpack the tarball and in which you run
configure and make does not have to be /usr/local/src/mailman or any
specific directory. It just needs to be different from the ultimate
install directory ($prefix).

Granted, some mention of this could be made in the manual, and I'll do
that, but this is standard GNU software installation practice.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffg at turners.com  Wed Aug 19 22:59:51 2009
From: jeffg at turners.com (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:59:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Template Question
In-Reply-To: <PC192200908181948580906c1ffe704@msapiro>
References: <PC192200908181948580906c1ffe704@msapiro>
Message-ID: <690ab412564f13d6861df0e10858e8b8@turners.com>


On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:48:58 -0700, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Jeff Grossman wrote:
> 
>>I am moving my Mailman 2.1.12 installation from an old Mac OS X box to a
>>freshly installed Debian stable machine.  I am running Mailman 2.1.12
>>from testing.  I copied over my lists directory and seem to have a
>>problem with the templates.  I have some customized templates in the en
>>directory of each mailing list in the lists directory.  Mailman does not
>>seem to be using those customized templates, but using the generic ones.
>>I thought the ones in each mailing list directory was always the first
>>used?  Or is it something with the way Debian setups up Mailman?  Any
>>help would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> If these are 'archive' templates you definitely need to restart Mailman
> after installing them as they are cached in ArchRunner. You shouldn't
> need to do this for 'web' templates and probably not for 'email'
> templates, but it wouldn't hurt. Also, cronpass.txt isn't associated
> with a list so it doesn't work in any lists/LISTNAME/en directory,
> even the site list's. If you have restarted Mailman after putting
> templates in lists/LISTNAME/en, and they still aren't being picked up,
> then I don't know what the problem is. I don't think it's a Debianism.

Sorry about that, yes they are 'email' templates.  I copied over my lists
directory from the old server.  And then started Mailman.  When I send a
help command to the list, it is not using the template located under the
'en' directory under the list.  It is using the generic template.  What
steps can I do to figure out what the problem is?

Thanks,
Jeff

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 19 23:55:00 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:55:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounces not resetting...
In-Reply-To: <1250703273.19592.65.camel@firefly>
Message-ID: <PC1922009081914550007187f4fc04e@msapiro>

John Withers wrote:
>
>> The stale bounce info is not reset until another bounce arrives. Thus,
>> old bounce info usually remains forever, but it does no harm. If a new
>> bounce arrives, the stale info will be forgotten and the user given a
>> score of 1 with the current date.
>> 
>
>Hmmm, so when it says specifically "The number of days after which a
>member's bounce information is discarded, if no new bounces have been
>received in the interim." It doesn't actually mean it. It means number
>of days after which a member's bounce information is discarded if we
>happen to get another bounce. Hmmm. Not good.


It means the number of days after which a member's bounce info is
ignored. Change the word 'discarded' to ' ignored' and it is a correct
statement, at least in current Mailman.


>Ah, if only it were true that it does no harm.
>
>Following scenario: for various reasons, the bounces were set
>exceptionally high on a list: 300. Now a new administrator takes over,
>sees that things aren't as they should be. Says, hmmm, we should lower
>that into reality and lose all these dead accounts I know we are
>carrying, lowers the number to 7.
>
>Suddenly, a lot of perfectly good users get hit with disable's.
>Secondly, the behavior is baffling to the admin, because the text for
>the bounce_info_stale_after is clear that these old bounces should have
>been discarded.


That behavior is the result of a bug that was fixed in 2.1.10.
cron/disabled now resets the bounce info in this circumstance instead
of disabling the member.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 20 01:18:45 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:18:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Template Question
In-Reply-To: <690ab412564f13d6861df0e10858e8b8@turners.com>
Message-ID: <PC1922009081916184502963003da95@msapiro>

Jeff Grossman wrote:
>
>Sorry about that, yes they are 'email' templates.  I copied over my lists
>directory from the old server.  And then started Mailman.  When I send a
>help command to the list, it is not using the template located under the
>'en' directory under the list.  It is using the generic template.  What
>steps can I do to figure out what the problem is?


I have skimmed the Debian patch list at
<http://patch-tracking.debian.net/package/mailman>, and I don't see
anything there that could cause this.

Could it be ownership or permissions on lists/LISTNAME/en and/or
lists/LISTNAME/en/help.txt? That's what I'd check first. If
CommandRunner can read the template?, then I don't know what the
problem would be. Debugging it might require putting temporary logging
statements in the findtext() function in Mailman/Utils.py or attaching
strace to CommandRunner.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl  Thu Aug 20 11:39:27 2009
From: kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl (Marek Kozlowski)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:39:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + postfix = strange behaviour
Message-ID: <4A8D19CF.3060606@mini.pw.edu.pl>

:-)
I have Gentoo, Postfix and Mailman
I've configured according to 
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node13.html
The bahaviour is very strange:

- mail do my mailing list goes to ML archive -- OK

- if there are wrong adddressess (cause I have deleted some users) I got 
the error in logs:
" User unknown in local recipient table; 
from=<somelist-bounces at mydomain> to=<someuser at mydomain> "  -- OK

- I can see in logs:
" myserver postfix/local[7449]: 2DC4B2A2052: to=<somelist at mydomain>, 
relay=local, delay=0.2, delays=0.08/0/0/0.12, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent 
(delivered to command: /usr/lib64/mailman/mail/mailman post somelist)" -- OK

Everything seems OK but no mail sent to mailing list is delivered to no 
user's mailbox. What's wrong??

BEst regards,
MArek

From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Thu Aug 20 12:30:22 2009
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:30:22 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + postfix = strange behaviour
In-Reply-To: <4A8D19CF.3060606@mini.pw.edu.pl>
References: <4A8D19CF.3060606@mini.pw.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <20090820103022.GH17045@mail.incertum.net>

* Marek Kozlowski <kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl>:
> :-)
> I have Gentoo, Postfix and Mailman
> I've configured according to  
> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node13.html
> The bahaviour is very strange:
>
> - mail do my mailing list goes to ML archive -- OK
>
> - if there are wrong adddressess (cause I have deleted some users) I got  
> the error in logs:
> " User unknown in local recipient table;  
> from=<somelist-bounces at mydomain> to=<someuser at mydomain> "  -- OK
>
> - I can see in logs:
> " myserver postfix/local[7449]: 2DC4B2A2052: to=<somelist at mydomain>,  
> relay=local, delay=0.2, delays=0.08/0/0/0.12, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent  
> (delivered to command: /usr/lib64/mailman/mail/mailman post somelist)" -- 
> OK
>
> Everything seems OK but no mail sent to mailing list is delivered to no  
> user's mailbox. What's wrong??

There is a wiki entry for this at http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9 which
describes various strategies to troubleshoot this problem.

In my personal experience, this is a very helpful ressource, and
checking everything that is mentioned there has helped me often in the
past.


Cheers
Stefan

From kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl  Thu Aug 20 12:56:45 2009
From: kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl (Marek Kozlowski)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:56:45 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + postfix = strange behaviour
In-Reply-To: <20090820103022.GH17045@mail.incertum.net>
References: <4A8D19CF.3060606@mini.pw.edu.pl>
	<20090820103022.GH17045@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <4A8D2BED.4040500@mini.pw.edu.pl>

Stefan F?rster wrote:
> * Marek Kozlowski <kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl>:
>> :-)
>> I have Gentoo, Postfix and Mailman
>> I've configured according to  
>> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node13.html
>> The bahaviour is very strange:
>>
>> - mail do my mailing list goes to ML archive -- OK
>>
>> - if there are wrong adddressess (cause I have deleted some users) I got  
>> the error in logs:
>> " User unknown in local recipient table;  
>> from=<somelist-bounces at mydomain> to=<someuser at mydomain> "  -- OK
>>
>> - I can see in logs:
>> " myserver postfix/local[7449]: 2DC4B2A2052: to=<somelist at mydomain>,  
>> relay=local, delay=0.2, delays=0.08/0/0/0.12, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent  
>> (delivered to command: /usr/lib64/mailman/mail/mailman post somelist)" -- 
>> OK
>>
>> Everything seems OK but no mail sent to mailing list is delivered to no  
>> user's mailbox. What's wrong??
> 
> There is a wiki entry for this at http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9 which
> describes various strategies to troubleshoot this problem.
> 
> In my personal experience, this is a very helpful ressource, and
> checking everything that is mentioned there has helped me often in the
> past.

Didn't help.

This is a part of /var/log/mail.log . Seems *everything* is OK... but I 
got NO mail...

Best regards,
Marek

Aug 20 12:49:12 alpha amavis[11953]: (11953-14) FWD via SMTP: 
<mailman-bounces at mini.pw.edu.pl> -> 
<M.Kozlowski at alpha.mini.pw.edu.pl>,BODY=7BIT 250 2.0.0 Ok, id=11953-14, 
from MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 127EB2A203E

Aug 20 12:49:12 alpha amavis[11953]: (11953-14) Passed CLEAN, LOCAL 
[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1] <mailman-bounces at mini.pw.edu.pl> -> 
<M.Kozlowski at alpha.mini.pw.edu.pl>, Message-ID: 
<mailman.4.1250765346.7432.mailman at alpha.mini.pw.edu.pl>, mail_id: 
EHJX2SsrO7XP, Hits: -4.399, size: 4287, queued_as: 127EB2A203E, 162 ms

Aug 20 12:49:12 alpha postfix/smtp[12264]: E0A852A2021: 
to=<M.Kozlowski at alpha.mini.pw.edu.pl>, 
orig_to=<kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl>, relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:10024, 
delay=0.24, delays=0.07/0/0.01/0.16, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 
Ok, id=11953-14, from MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 
127EB2A203E)

Aug 20 12:49:12 alpha postfix/qmgr[7368]: E0A852A2021: removed

Aug 20 12:49:12 alpha amavis[11953]: (11953-14) TIMING [total 166 ms] - 
SMTP greeting: 1 (1%)1, SMTP EHLO: 0 (0%)1, SMTP pre-MAIL: 0 (0%)1, SMTP 
pre-DATA-flush: 1 (1%)2, SMTP DATA: 39 (23%)25, check_init: 0 (0%)26, 
digest_hdr: 0 (0%)26, digest_body: 0 (0%)26, gen_mail_id: 1 (0%)26, 
mime_decode: 9 (5%)32, get-file-type3: 12 (7%)39, decompose_part: 1 
(0%)39, decompose_part: 0 (0%)39, parts_decode: 0 (0%)40, check_header: 
1 (1%)40, spam-wb-list: 2 (1%)42, update_cache: 1 (0%)42, 
decide_mail_destiny: 0 (0%)42, fwd-connect: 10 (6%)48, fwd-mail-pip: 1 
(1%)49, fwd-rcpt-pip: 0 (0%)49, fwd-data-chkpnt: 0 (0%)49, write-header: 
1 (0%)50, fwd-data-contents: 0 (0%)50, fwd-end-chkpnt: 73 (44%)94, 
prepare-dsn: 1 (0%)94, main_log_entry: 7 (4%)99, update_snmp: 1 (1%)99, 
SMTP pre-response: 0 (0%)99, SMTP response: 0 (0%)100, unlink-3-files: 0 
(0%)100, rundown: 1 (0%)100

Aug 20 12:49:12 alpha postfix/local[12267]: 127EB2A203E: 
to=<kozlowsm at alpha.mini.pw.edu.pl>, 
orig_to=<M.Kozlowski at alpha.mini.pw.edu.pl>, relay=local, delay=0.15, 
delays=0.07/0/0/0.07, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to maildir)

Aug 20 12:49:12 alpha postfix/qmgr[7368]: 127EB2A203E: removed

From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Thu Aug 20 13:05:08 2009
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:05:08 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + postfix = strange behaviour
In-Reply-To: <4A8D2BED.4040500@mini.pw.edu.pl>
References: <4A8D19CF.3060606@mini.pw.edu.pl>
	<20090820103022.GH17045@mail.incertum.net>
	<4A8D2BED.4040500@mini.pw.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <20090820110508.GL17045@mail.incertum.net>

* Marek Kozlowski <kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl>:
> Stefan F?rster wrote:
>> There is a wiki entry for this at http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9 which
>> describes various strategies to troubleshoot this problem.
>>
>> In my personal experience, this is a very helpful ressource, and
>> checking everything that is mentioned there has helped me often in the
>> past.
>
> Didn't help.
>
> This is a part of /var/log/mail.log . Seems *everything* is OK... but I  
> got NO mail...
>
> Aug 20 12:49:12 alpha amavis[11953]: (11953-14) FWD via SMTP:  
> <mailman-bounces at mini.pw.edu.pl> ->  
> <M.Kozlowski at alpha.mini.pw.edu.pl>,BODY=7BIT 250 2.0.0 Ok, id=11953-14,  
> from MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 127EB2A203E

The lsit messages is reinjected to Postfix, the queue ID is
127EB2A203E.

> Aug 20 12:49:12 alpha postfix/local[12267]: 127EB2A203E:  
> to=<kozlowsm at alpha.mini.pw.edu.pl>,  
> orig_to=<M.Kozlowski at alpha.mini.pw.edu.pl>, relay=local, delay=0.15,  
> delays=0.07/0/0/0.07, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to maildir)

The message is delivered to a maildir store. I guess this is not a
Mailman problem, but a Postfix one. Perhaps you got address rewriting
wrong - is the mail really supposed to be delivered to
kozlowsm at alpha.mini.pw.edu.pl with the local(8) delivery agent? After
all, your mail address seems to be kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl, without
the "alpha" part - but I don't know your mail setup.

When using a content_filter, you should make sure that you only do
virtual address rewriting once, i.e. either the main smtpd (or the one
you use for injecting messages generated by Mailman) _or_ the smtpd
used for reinjection from amavisd-new should have set
"receive_override_options=no_address_mappings" - only one, not both of
them, preferarbly the one used for reinjection from amavisd-new.

Anyways, this is getting off-topic.


Cheers
Stefan

From kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl  Thu Aug 20 13:15:21 2009
From: kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl (Marek Kozlowski)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:15:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + postfix = strange behaviour
In-Reply-To: <20090820110508.GL17045@mail.incertum.net>
References: <4A8D19CF.3060606@mini.pw.edu.pl>	<20090820103022.GH17045@mail.incertum.net>	<4A8D2BED.4040500@mini.pw.edu.pl>
	<20090820110508.GL17045@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <4A8D3049.9070101@mini.pw.edu.pl>

:-)

> The message is delivered to a maildir store. I guess this is not a
> Mailman problem, but a Postfix one. Perhaps you got address rewriting
> wrong - is the mail really supposed to be delivered to
> kozlowsm at alpha.mini.pw.edu.pl with the local(8) delivery agent? After
> all, your mail address seems to be kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl, without
> the "alpha" part - but I don't know your mail setup.

Normal mail sent to any of the followings:

kozlowsm at alpha.mini.pw.edu.pl
M.Kozlowski at alpha.mini.pw.edu.pl
kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl
M.Kozlowski at mini.pw.edu.pl

is delivered OK!

> When using a content_filter, you should make sure that you only do
> virtual address rewriting once, i.e. either the main smtpd (or the one
> you use for injecting messages generated by Mailman) _or_ the smtpd
> used for reinjection from amavisd-new should have set
> "receive_override_options=no_address_mappings" - only one, not both of
> them, preferarbly the one used for reinjection from amavisd-new.

Could you explain more in detail?

Best reards,
/M

From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Thu Aug 20 13:21:34 2009
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:21:34 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + postfix = strange behaviour
In-Reply-To: <4A8D3049.9070101@mini.pw.edu.pl>
References: <4A8D19CF.3060606@mini.pw.edu.pl>
	<20090820103022.GH17045@mail.incertum.net>
	<4A8D2BED.4040500@mini.pw.edu.pl>
	<20090820110508.GL17045@mail.incertum.net>
	<4A8D3049.9070101@mini.pw.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <20090820112134.GO17045@mail.incertum.net>

* Marek Kozlowski <kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl>:
>> The message is delivered to a maildir store. I guess this is not a
>> Mailman problem, but a Postfix one. Perhaps you got address rewriting
>> wrong - is the mail really supposed to be delivered to
>> kozlowsm at alpha.mini.pw.edu.pl with the local(8) delivery agent? After
>> all, your mail address seems to be kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl, without
>> the "alpha" part - but I don't know your mail setup.
>
> Normal mail sent to any of the followings:
>
> kozlowsm at alpha.mini.pw.edu.pl
> M.Kozlowski at alpha.mini.pw.edu.pl
> kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl
> M.Kozlowski at mini.pw.edu.pl
>
> is delivered OK!

I couldn't possibly know that ;-)

Well, so this is now really a Postfix problem. I suggest adding "-v"
to the "local" stanza in master.cf, execute "postfix reload", send
another mail, capture the log data and ask on postfix-users.


Cheers
Stefan

From kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl  Thu Aug 20 14:58:37 2009
From: kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl (Marek Kozlowski)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:58:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + postfix = strange behaviour
In-Reply-To: <20090820112134.GO17045@mail.incertum.net>
References: <4A8D19CF.3060606@mini.pw.edu.pl>	<20090820103022.GH17045@mail.incertum.net>	<4A8D2BED.4040500@mini.pw.edu.pl>	<20090820110508.GL17045@mail.incertum.net>	<4A8D3049.9070101@mini.pw.edu.pl>
	<20090820112134.GO17045@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <4A8D487D.6010803@mini.pw.edu.pl>

:-)
Oups, I have revised the configuration and browsed the logs. Those mails 
(mentioned in logs) are mails sent to the list moderator (that's me) 
with information that there are new posts require moderation. Then I 
moderate them (accept) and then... /var/log/mail.log shows NO mailman 
activity. Any tips?
Best regards,
Marek

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 20 16:21:49 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 07:21:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + postfix = strange behaviour
In-Reply-To: <4A8D487D.6010803@mini.pw.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <PC1922009082007214907183003dc3f@msapiro>

Marek Kozlowski wrote:
>:-)
>Oups, I have revised the configuration and browsed the logs. Those mails 
>(mentioned in logs) are mails sent to the list moderator (that's me) 
>with information that there are new posts require moderation. Then I 
>moderate them (accept) and then... /var/log/mail.log shows NO mailman 
>activity. Any tips?

How do you approve the post? Web or email? If email are you including
the Approved: password header in your approval message?

Do the approved posts get to the archive?

Check all of Mailman's logs? Does the vette log show the approvals?

It could be that content filtering is removing the entire post after
approval and handling it according to filter_action.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl  Thu Aug 20 19:12:31 2009
From: kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl (Marek Kozlowski)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:12:31 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + postfix = strange behaviour
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009082007214907183003dc3f@msapiro>
References: <PC1922009082007214907183003dc3f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4A8D83FF.6070105@mini.pw.edu.pl>

:-)
> How do you approve the post? Web or email? If email are you including
> the Approved: password header in your approval message?

Via web interface.

> Do the approved posts get to the archive?
> 
> Check all of Mailman's logs? Does the vette log show the approvals?
> 
> It could be that content filtering is removing the entire post after
> approval and handling it according to filter_action.

Oups! Sorry! Didn't notice that mailman logs are in /var/lib/... :-(

error: no error messages
post: only "post to ... <nr_of_group_members> failures"
qrunner: no error messages
smtp: no error messages
smtp-failure: that's it! Lots of errors like:

"Aug 20 18:50:10 2009 (15479) delivery to someuser at mini.pw.edu.pl failed 
with code -1: Server not connected"

WTH?!?!?!

Best regards,
Marek

BTW: vette is OK.

From kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl  Thu Aug 20 19:14:56 2009
From: kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl (Marek Kozlowski)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:14:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + postfix = strange behaviour
In-Reply-To: <4A8D83FF.6070105@mini.pw.edu.pl>
References: <PC1922009082007214907183003dc3f@msapiro>
	<4A8D83FF.6070105@mini.pw.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <4A8D8490.6020205@mini.pw.edu.pl>

:-)

> smtp-failure: that's it! Lots of errors like:
> 
> "Aug 20 18:50:10 2009 (15479) delivery to someuser at mini.pw.edu.pl failed 
> with code -1: Server not connected"
> 
> WTH?!?!?!

I've found some suggestion to set SMTPPORT to 25 (it is... 0 ?) in 
mm_cfg.py. Now I have:

"Aug 20 19:11:13 2009 (21289) delivery to someuser at mini.pw.edu.pl failed 
with code -1: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')"

:-(

Best regards,
/M

From kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl  Thu Aug 20 19:25:45 2009
From: kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl (Marek Kozlowski)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:25:45 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + postfix = strange behaviour
In-Reply-To: <4A8D8490.6020205@mini.pw.edu.pl>
References: <PC1922009082007214907183003dc3f@msapiro>	<4A8D83FF.6070105@mini.pw.edu.pl>
	<4A8D8490.6020205@mini.pw.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <4A8D8719.6090505@mini.pw.edu.pl>

Marek Kozlowski wrote:
> :-)
> 
>> smtp-failure: that's it! Lots of errors like:
>>
>> "Aug 20 18:50:10 2009 (15479) delivery to someuser at mini.pw.edu.pl 
>> failed with code -1: Server not connected"
>>
>> WTH?!?!?!
> 
> I've found some suggestion to set SMTPPORT to 25 (it is... 0 ?) in 
> mm_cfg.py. Now I have:
> 
> "Aug 20 19:11:13 2009 (21289) delivery to someuser at mini.pw.edu.pl failed 
> with code -1: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')"

SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 1
(http://www.mailinglistarchive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg08741.html 
-- thanks Mark!)
helped. Still I'mnot sure why :-(

Best regards,
Marek

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 20 20:02:09 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:02:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + postfix = strange behaviour
In-Reply-To: <4A8D8719.6090505@mini.pw.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <PC19220090820110209081297f73875@msapiro>

Marek Kozlowski wrote:

>error: no error messages
>post: only "post to ... <nr_of_group_members> failures"
>qrunner: no error messages
>smtp: no error messages
>smtp-failure: that's it! Lots of errors like:

>"Aug 20 18:50:10 2009 (15479) delivery to someuser at mini.pw.edu.pl failed 
>with code -1: Server not connected"


See below:

And Marek Kozlowski wrote:

>I've found some suggestion to set SMTPPORT to 25 (it is... 0 ?) in 
>mm_cfg.py. Now I have:

>"Aug 20 19:11:13 2009 (21289) delivery to someuser at mini.pw.edu.pl failed 
>with code -1: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')"


The fact that the error changed when you set SMTPPORT = 25 rather than
the Defaults.py setting of 0 is a coincidence. There is no difference
between the two. SMTPPORT = 25 tells the python smtplib module to use
port 25 and SMTPPORT = 0 tells it to use the SMTP default port which
is 25.



And Marek Kozlowski wrote:

>SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 1
>(http://www.mailinglistarchive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg08741.html 
>-- thanks Mark!)
>helped. Still I'mnot sure why :-(


It helps because of a bug in the underlying Python smtplib. See
<http://bugs.python.org/issue5713>

Your real problem is you have addresses on your list that Postfix
thinks are undeliverable. The bug report linked above describes the
scenario.

After 20 invalid local recipients in one SMTP transaction, Postfix
disconnects with a 421 Too many errors reply, but the Python smtplib
module doesn't expect a disconnect after a 421 and gets out of sync
with Postfix.

Setting SMTP_MAX_RCPTS to any number less than 20 will avoid this
problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl  Thu Aug 20 20:12:10 2009
From: kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl (Marek Kozlowski)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:12:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + postfix = strange behaviour
In-Reply-To: <PC19220090820110209081297f73875@msapiro>
References: <PC19220090820110209081297f73875@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4A8D91FA.40201@mini.pw.edu.pl>

:-)
>> SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 1
>> (http://www.mailinglistarchive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg08741.html 
>> -- thanks Mark!)
>> helped. Still I'mnot sure why :-(
> 
> 
> It helps because of a bug in the underlying Python smtplib. See
> <http://bugs.python.org/issue5713>
> 
> Your real problem is you have addresses on your list that Postfix
> thinks are undeliverable. The bug report linked above describes the
> scenario.
> 
> After 20 invalid local recipients in one SMTP transaction, Postfix
> disconnects with a 421 Too many errors reply, but the Python smtplib
> module doesn't expect a disconnect after a 421 and gets out of sync
> with Postfix.
> 
> Setting SMTP_MAX_RCPTS to any number less than 20 will avoid this
> problem.

THANKS A LOT!!! Now it works and I do know why! Wonderful!

Best tregards,
Marek Koz?owski


From kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl  Thu Aug 20 20:31:26 2009
From: kozlowsm at mini.pw.edu.pl (Marek Kozlowski)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:31:26 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] host vs alias (CNAME) and listinfo
Message-ID: <4A8D967E.2050105@mini.pw.edu.pl>

:-)
If you compare:
http://alpha.mini.pw.edu.pl/mailman/listinfo
http://www.mini.pw.edu.pl/mailman/listinfo
you will see different public lists. The "www" is a CNAME od "alpha" so 
this is the same host. When creating a new list there is no hostname 
choice (AFAIK). In the administration panel I can't see this option too. 
What is the source of this difference?
Best ragards,
MArek


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 20 21:08:43 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:08:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] host vs alias (CNAME) and listinfo
In-Reply-To: <4A8D967E.2050105@mini.pw.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <PC19220090820120843053136cf463e@msapiro>

Marek Kozlowski wrote:

>If you compare:
>http://alpha.mini.pw.edu.pl/mailman/listinfo
>http://www.mini.pw.edu.pl/mailman/listinfo
>you will see different public lists. The "www" is a CNAME od "alpha" so 
>this is the same host. When creating a new list there is no hostname 
>choice (AFAIK). In the administration panel I can't see this option too. 
>What is the source of this difference?


See the FAQs at <http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9> and
<http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9> and perhaps others.


When creating a list from the web, the host name is the host in the URL
you used to access the create page.

When creating a list with bin/newlist, the default host name is
DEFAULT_URL_HOST, but there are options to specify another host. See
bin/newlist --help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Thu Aug 20 21:38:58 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:38:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] host vs alias (CNAME) and listinfo
In-Reply-To: <4A8D967E.2050105@mini.pw.edu.pl>
References: <4A8D967E.2050105@mini.pw.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <4A8DA652.1020700@riverviewtech.net>

On 08/20/09 13:31, Marek Kozlowski wrote:
> What is the source of this difference?

As Mark said there is an option (as I recently learned) to newlist to 
specify which domain the list belongs to.

Also remember that with web sites, you can have as many web sites hosted 
on an HTTP 1.1 server as you want because of the "Host:" header 
specifying which web site you are trying to access.



Grant. . . .

From nauyaca_1910 at yahoo.com.mx  Fri Aug 21 00:04:14 2009
From: nauyaca_1910 at yahoo.com.mx (Jose Antonio Villarreal)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:04:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to configure the confirmations in
	spanish?
Message-ID: <162059.98218.qm@web65704.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

I read that is not possible to set your subscribe confirmation in Spanish when the request is made by mail, but i have seen also, is not possible to set the unsubscribe's confirmation in Spanish even when the language's user is selected in Spanish from the Mailman administration interface.
If it is code genereted, is it difficult to change this to Spanish? 
Tanks in advance.




      Encuentra las mejores recetas en Yahoo! Cocina.                       
http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 21 02:16:11 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:16:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to configure the confirmations
	inspanish?
In-Reply-To: <162059.98218.qm@web65704.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC192200908201716110000419c5f0b@msapiro>

Jose Antonio Villarreal wrote:

>I read that is not possible to set your subscribe confirmation in Spanish when the request is made by mail,


When you subscribe by email and subscription requires confirmation, the
confirmation message is sent in the list's preferred language. Set
that to Spanish and the confirmation will be in Spanish.


>but i have seen also, is not possible to set the unsubscribe's confirmation in Spanish even when the language's user is selected in Spanish from the Mailman administration interface.


The unsubscribe confirmation is sent in the user's preferred language
if the request is sent by email. This should also be true if the
request is from the web options login page, but it seems there is a
bug in this.

I'll need to investigate this further.


>If it is code genereted, is it difficult to change this to Spanish? 
>Tanks in advance.


It should only be necessary to set the list's preferred language to
Spanish. As I said, there may be a bug in how this is handled from the
options login page, but if so, I'll fix that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 21 02:34:36 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:34:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to configure the
	confirmationsinspanish?
In-Reply-To: <PC192200908201716110000419c5f0b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1922009082017343602509870e6de@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>It should only be necessary to set the list's preferred language to
>Spanish. As I said, there may be a bug in how this is handled from the
>options login page, but if so, I'll fix that.


Actually, the confirmation sent for an unsubscribe request from the
options login page is sent in the language of that page rather than
the member's preferred language. Thus, if the list's preferred
language is Spanish or the user first selects Spanish as the language
in which to display the page, then the unsubscription confirmation
will be sent in Spanish.

However, I think this may not be the best approach. I think the options
login page should use the member's language in preference to the
language that the page is displayed in.

What do others think of this?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From nauyaca_1910 at yahoo.com.mx  Fri Aug 21 18:52:58 2009
From: nauyaca_1910 at yahoo.com.mx (Jose Antonio Villarreal)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:52:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to configure the confirmations
	inspanish?
Message-ID: <620071.65794.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Thank you, but finally i decided, to moderate the subscriptions, and i would like to change the subjects of the emails written in Spanish.

For example:
"Bienvenido a la lista de distribuci?n de...".
I would like to have "difusi?n" instead of "distribuci?n", I found the file
?
/var/lib/mailman/messages/es/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
in my server and I change the msgstr value, but i don't kow how to build the mailman.mo

#: Mailman/Deliverer.py:77
msgid "Welcome to the \"%(realname)s\" mailing list%(digmode)s"
msgstr "Bienvenido a la lista de difusi?n %(realname)s%(digmode)s"

How can i do it?



--- El jue 20-ago-09, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> escribi?:

De:: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
Asunto: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to configure the confirmations inspanish?
A: "Jose Antonio Villarreal" <nauyaca_1910 at yahoo.com.mx>
Fecha: jueves 20 de agosto de 2009, 21:21

Jose Antonio Villarreal wrote:

>Thank you!, well I changed the preferred language to Spanish, and i can change some things to Spanish:
>1. Welcome message (editing the template i can have the content in Spanish, the subject is in Spanish: "Bienvenido a las lista...")
>2. The notification when someone has been deleted from the list, the subject is in Spanish also("Se ha dado de baja..."), and I can edit the content
>etc...
>But the confirm messages received after sending a mail to
>mylist-iie-join at bla.com, or mylist-iie-leave at bla,com, their
 content are still in English.


In my tests, If the list's preferred_language is Spanish and I mail
list-join at ..., I receive a confirmation message in Spanish, and when I
confirm and confirm my language is Spanish, I receive the welcome
message in Spanish. If I am a list member and my member preferred
language is Spanish and I mail list-leave at ... I receive a confirmation
message in Spanish, and when I confirm, I receive the goodbye message
in Spanish.

I don't know why this wouldn't work the same way for you.


>I don't know if its a problem in my installation, in Debian unstable version, the default installation was in English the first time. Anyway I'll be working on.


I did all the above testing on an English language installation, and
all I did was change the test list's preferred_language to Spanish.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>? ? ? ? The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California? ? better use your sense - B. Dylan




      Encuentra las mejores recetas en Yahoo! Cocina.                       
http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 21 19:10:51 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:10:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to configure the confirmations
	inspanish?
In-Reply-To: <620071.65794.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC19220090821101051057834cca0f5@msapiro>

Jose Antonio Villarreal wrote:

>Thank you, but finally i decided, to moderate the subscriptions, and i would like to change the subjects of the emails written in Spanish.
>
>For example:
>"Bienvenido a la lista de distribuci?n de...".
>I would like to have "difusi?n" instead of "distribuci?n", I found the file
>?
>/var/lib/mailman/messages/es/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
>in my server and I change the msgstr value, but i don't kow how to build the mailman.mo
>
>#: Mailman/Deliverer.py:77
>msgid "Welcome to the \"%(realname)s\" mailing list%(digmode)s"
>msgstr "Bienvenido a la lista de difusi?n %(realname)s%(digmode)s"
>
>How can i do it?


You can build the mailman.mo file from your edited mailman.po file with
either the standard GNU msgfmt command or Mailman's bin/msgfmt.py
command.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hal at sofdev.sri.com  Fri Aug 21 22:03:41 2009
From: hal at sofdev.sri.com (Hal Huntley)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:03:41 PDT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests error
Message-ID: <CMM.0.90.4.1250885021.hal@sofdev>

I get this mailman message about digests a few times a week based on the
senddigests cron job.  Since we don't do digests on any of our mailing
lists, I've ignored it and no one has complained about not receiving
messages on any of our lists.

But in the interest of learning something and reducing the amount of email I
may get, I'd like to figure out how to make it go away.  I've deleted most
of the headers. The text of the traceback is in its entirety.  

It's probably a pretty easy fix, I'd guess.  I _could_ comment out the
cronjob entry for the senddigests, and I'm willing to do that, but it would
be more beneficial to learn a bit more of the depths of things.

It's mailman 2.1.5.

Hal Huntley
SRI International

-----
[Maybe pertinent headers:]
X-Cron-Env: <SHELL=/bin/sh>
X-Cron-Env: <HOME=/usr/lib/mailman>
X-Cron-Env: <PATH=/usr/bin:/bin>
X-Cron-Env: <LOGNAME=mailman>
X-Cron-Env: <USER=mailman>
Subject: [Mailman] Cron <mailman at host> /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list

[body of message:]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 86, in main
    mlist.send_digest_now()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 60, in send_digest_now
    ToDigest.send_digests(self, mboxfp)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in send_digests
    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 225, in send_i18n_digests
    addresses = getaddresses([oneline(msg.get('from', ''), lcset)])
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 389, in oneline
    h = make_header(decode_header(s))
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Header.py", line 113, in decode_header
    raise HeaderParseError
email.Errors.HeaderParseError
_______________________________________________
Mailman mailing list


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 21 22:44:38 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:44:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests error
In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.90.4.1250885021.hal@sofdev>
Message-ID: <PC19220090821134438048434cca08a@msapiro>

Hal Huntley wrote:

>I get this mailman message about digests a few times a week based on the
>senddigests cron job.  Since we don't do digests on any of our mailing
>lists, I've ignored it and no one has complained about not receiving
>messages on any of our lists.


If you don't "do digests" set Digest options -> digestable to No on all
your lists, and this problem can't occur. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/hYA9> for how to do this for all lists from
the command line.


>But in the interest of learning something and reducing the amount of email I
>may get, I'd like to figure out how to make it go away.  I've deleted most
>of the headers. The text of the traceback is in its entirety.  
>
>It's probably a pretty easy fix, I'd guess.  I _could_ comment out the
>cronjob entry for the senddigests, and I'm willing to do that, but it would
>be more beneficial to learn a bit more of the depths of things.
>
>It's mailman 2.1.5.
>
>Hal Huntley
>SRI International
>
>-----
>[Maybe pertinent headers:]
>X-Cron-Env: <SHELL=/bin/sh>
>X-Cron-Env: <HOME=/usr/lib/mailman>
>X-Cron-Env: <PATH=/usr/bin:/bin>
>X-Cron-Env: <LOGNAME=mailman>
>X-Cron-Env: <USER=mailman>
>Subject: [Mailman] Cron <mailman at host> /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests
>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
>Precedence: list
>
>[body of message:]
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 86, in main
>    mlist.send_digest_now()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 60, in send_digest_now
>    ToDigest.send_digests(self, mboxfp)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in send_digests
>    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 225, in send_i18n_digests
>    addresses = getaddresses([oneline(msg.get('from', ''), lcset)])
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 389, in oneline
>    h = make_header(decode_header(s))
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Header.py", line 113, in decode_header
>    raise HeaderParseError
>email.Errors.HeaderParseError


There is a lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox file for some LISTNAME that has
an invalid (unparseable) RFC2047 encoded From: header.

You need to remove this (and maybe all other) digest.mbox files. If you
don't remove it, it will eventually grow until it reaches the list's
Digest options -> digest_size_threshhold at which point every post
will attempt to send a digest and will encounter this exception, and
in Mailman as old as 2.1.5, this will effectively shut down the list.

You might also consider upgrading Mailman. Beginning with 2.1.10,
cron/senddigests handled this more gracefully and reported the
offenting list name and digest.mbox file. Also, since 2.1.6 or 2.1.7,
a defective digest.mbox won't stop list processing.
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at list.org  Sat Aug 22 00:22:51 2009
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:22:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RELEASED GNU Mailman 3.0 alpha 3 (Working Man)
Message-ID: <4ACF8ADB-583D-4E75-909A-D0A234009B76@list.org>

I am happy to announce the release of the third alpha version of  
Mailman 3, code named "Working Man".

This is primarily a preview release so that developers and other  
interested people can download the code and participate in Mailman 3's  
further development.  I believe we are on track for a final release by  
the end of the year, and your contributions of code, feedback,  
documentation, etc. will be welcome and appreciated!

Please note that this is an alpha release and as such is not ready for  
production use.

You can get the code from the Cheeseshop:

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/mailman/3.0.0a3

Mailman 3 is buildout based and requires Python 2.6.  To build it, run  
this after unpacking the tarball and cd'ing into it

% python bootstrap.py
% bin/buildout

 From there you can run the tests

% bin/test

and build the documentation

% bin/docs

Highlights in this release include the start of a REST admin server  
for integrating Mailman with external web sites, a combined bin/ 
mailman uber-command, configuration now done through ini-files using  
lazr.config, and better LMTP support.

Enjoy,
-Barry

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From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 22 00:50:16 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:50:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RELEASED GNU Mailman 3.0 alpha 3 (Working Man)
In-Reply-To: <4ACF8ADB-583D-4E75-909A-D0A234009B76@list.org>
Message-ID: <PC1922009082115501601713da83bbb@msapiro>

Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
>I am happy to announce the release of the third alpha version of  
>Mailman 3, code named "Working Man".


Way to go Barry!!

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From david.reitter at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 20:45:39 2009
From: david.reitter at gmail.com (David Reitter)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:45:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply-to munging depending on sender subscriber
	status?
Message-ID: <6AF1120D-5DAA-41F7-9B6F-AB9AB9202DFA@gmail.com>

Is it possible to configure Mailman to set the Reply-To header of a  
message depending on whether the sender is subscribed to the mailing  
list?

Rationale:

For an open mailing list set up to receive bug reports from users,  I  
would like to set

- Reply-To = sender, mailing-list  if the sender is not a subscriber
- Reply-To = mailing-list  if the sender is a subscriber

I've had a complaint from one of my collaborators that he couldn't  
filter messages correctly when they were sent directly to him rather  
than just to the list.  That's okay, and I like to keep most traffic  
on the list rather than hide it in order to publicly record the  
conversation.  At the same time, replying just to the list when I  
can't be sure that the sender will get my reply is not the right  
strategy, and since switching on the Reply-To setting, I've made that  
mistake many times.

Hence the desire to have the above option.

Thanks for your consideration.

PS.: The true problem happens on the client side, where replies that  
go to the list and the user aren't filtered correctly.  I would  
consider telling people to fix that rather than to set Reply-To if the  
above can't be done.


From grayarea at reddagger.org  Wed Aug 19 19:34:33 2009
From: grayarea at reddagger.org (John Withers)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:34:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounces not resetting...
In-Reply-To: <PC192200908190750300453a10406a3@msapiro>
References: <PC192200908190750300453a10406a3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1250703273.19592.65.camel@firefly>


> The stale bounce info is not reset until another bounce arrives. Thus,
> old bounce info usually remains forever, but it does no harm. If a new
> bounce arrives, the stale info will be forgotten and the user given a
> score of 1 with the current date.
> 

Hmmm, so when it says specifically "The number of days after which a
member's bounce information is discarded, if no new bounces have been
received in the interim." It doesn't actually mean it. It means number
of days after which a member's bounce information is discarded if we
happen to get another bounce. Hmmm. Not good.

Ah, if only it were true that it does no harm.

Following scenario: for various reasons, the bounces were set
exceptionally high on a list: 300. Now a new administrator takes over,
sees that things aren't as they should be. Says, hmmm, we should lower
that into reality and lose all these dead accounts I know we are
carrying, lowers the number to 7.

Suddenly, a lot of perfectly good users get hit with disable's.
Secondly, the behavior is baffling to the admin, because the text for
the bounce_info_stale_after is clear that these old bounces should have
been discarded.

Thanks for your knowledge here tho, that explains what I am seeing.

-John
 
> > On Wed, 2009-08-19 at 07:50 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> > John Withers wrote:
> > >
> > >I have a problem in that user's bounces aren't resetting. The
> > >bounce_info_stale after value seems to be being ignored. I have
> > users
> > >who's last bounce was in 2005 and we have sent literally thousands
> > of
> > >emails to them since then. Th bounce_info_stale_after value is 7.
> > But
> > >they are still showing 10 bounces from 2005 and prior.
> > >
> > >Could anyone tell me why this would happen and how I might be able
> > to
> > >prevent it in the future?
> > 
> > 


From groups at billnot.com  Fri Aug 21 16:03:46 2009
From: groups at billnot.com (Bill Hayles)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:03:46 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with members subscribing using the web
	interface
Message-ID: <20090821155147.7692.630E056E@billnot.com>

Hi,

I'm setting up Mailman using the package (2.1.11) supplied with OpenSuSE
11.1, using Apache as the web server (and exim as MTA, but I don't think
that's relevant).

I have a group of volunteers testing various things.

On the e-mail side, everything is fine - they can subscribe or unsubscribe
by e-mail, and send and receive messages.  I, as administrator, can use the
web interface without problem.

However, when somebody tries to subscribe on the web, when they click
"Subscribe" they get the "We're sorry, we hit a bug!" screen.

I have looked at the error log, but I don't really understand it.  I've
changed nothing in the configs except enter my hosts etc.

Here is the relevant entry from the log; I have substituted "mydomain" for
my true domain name:

Aug 21 15:56:17 2009 admin(12480): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 
admin(12480): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.11 -----] 
admin(12480): [----- Traceback ------] 
admin(12480): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(12480):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
admin(12480):     main()
admin(12480):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line 96, in main
admin(12480):     process_form(mlist, doc, cgidata, language)
admin(12480):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line 176, in process_form
admin(12480):     mlist.AddMember(userdesc, remote)
admin(12480):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 916, in AddMember
admin(12480):     raise Errors.MMSubscribeNeedsConfirmation
admin(12480): TypeError: exceptions must be classes or instances, not str
admin(12480): [----- Python Information -----] 
admin(12480): sys.version     =   2.6 (r26:66714, Feb  3 2009, 20:52:03) 
[GCC 4.3.2 [gcc-4_3-branch revision 141291]] 
admin(12480): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python 
admin(12480): sys.prefix      =   /usr 
admin(12480): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr 
admin(12480): sys.path        =   /usr 
admin(12480): sys.platform    =   linux2 
admin(12480): [----- Environment Variables -----] 
admin(12480): 	HTTP_COOKIE: testlist+admin=280200000069b66f8e4a732800000038623062656464353335353830383562313766643866633239343434666562373830363631353937 
admin(12480): 	SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.2.10 (Linux/SUSE) 
admin(12480): 	SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/subscribe 
admin(12480): 	SERVER_SIGNATURE: <address>Apache/2.2.10 (Linux/SUSE) Server at
mydomain.com Port 80</address>
admin(12480): 
admin(12480): 	REQUEST_METHOD: POST 
admin(12480): 	HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE: 300 
admin(12480): 	SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 
admin(12480): 	QUERY_STRING:  
admin(12480): 	CONTENT_LENGTH: 105 
admin(12480): 	HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7 
admin(12480): 	HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.1.2) Gecko/20090729 Firefox/3.5.2 
admin(12480): 	HTTP_CONNECTION: keep-alive 
admin(12480): 	HTTP_REFERER: http://mydomain.com/mailman/listinfo/testlist/ 
admin(12480): 	SERVER_NAME: mydomain.com 
admin(12480): 	REMOTE_ADDR: 80.35.22.107 
admin(12480): 	PATH_TRANSLATED: /srv/www/htdocs/testlist 
admin(12480): 	SERVER_PORT: 80 
admin(12480): 	SERVER_ADDR: 172.26.0.14 
admin(12480): 	DOCUMENT_ROOT: /srv/www/htdocs 
admin(12480): 	PYTHONPATH: /usr/lib/mailman 
admin(12480): 	SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/subscribe 
admin(12480): 	SERVER_ADMIN: groups at billnot.com 
admin(12480): 	HTTP_HOST: mydomain.com 
admin(12480): 	REQUEST_URI: /mailman/subscribe/testlist 
admin(12480): 	HTTP_ACCEPT: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8 
admin(12480): 	GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1 
admin(12480): 	REMOTE_PORT: 50440 
admin(12480): 	HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-gb,en;q=0.5 
admin(12480): 	CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded 
admin(12480): 	HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip,deflate 
admin(12480): 	PATH_INFO: /testlist 

-- 
'Tis far better to have snipped too much than to never 
have snipped at all. -- (author unknown)
Bill Hayles
groups at billnot.com


From info at kmosolutions.be  Fri Aug 21 13:03:53 2009
From: info at kmosolutions.be (KMO Solutions.be)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:03:53 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman download.
Message-ID: <20090821130353.7umjoc6jkg8cwgo4@webmail.kmosolutions.be>

Dear,

I can download the Milman zip, but i can't open it?
Can you make an new zip file and send it to me?


Regards,
David.

-





From martbd at optusnet.com.au  Thu Aug 20 20:56:48 2009
From: martbd at optusnet.com.au (Martin Barr-David)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 04:56:48 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reseting mailman password
Message-ID: <4A8D9C70.80507@optusnet.com.au>

I am an administrator  of an email list and lost the password to the 
admin interface what can I do please help

ANYONE, HURRY






E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.1.0.447)
Database version: 6.13090
http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor/

From mratcliff at tsl.state.tx.us  Fri Aug 21 19:28:45 2009
From: mratcliff at tsl.state.tx.us (Mark Ratcliff)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 12:28:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not automatically updating its aliases file
Message-ID: <74F440BE5406B44DA9FA6DB492320152960627@Exchange01.win2k.tsl.state.tx.us>

Hi,
I was recently tasked with setting up a new mailman server.
 
We installed mm2.1.9 via yum on a RHEL5.3 server with postfix installed.
 
varprefix=/var/lib/mailman and prefix =/usr/lib/mailman.
 
This is what I have for custom lines in my mm_cfg.py:
 
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mm server name'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mm server name'
 
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
 
MTA = 'Postfix'
VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = 0
OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = 1
 
My problem is that whenever I use the newlist command and I create a
list, it doesnt automatically update the aliases file. According to the
install documentation on the mailman website, I only had to do a few
things including adding MTA='Postfix', etc. Are there any other settings
that I need to check on in order to make sure it is working?
 
Thanks for any replies.

From nico_se at hotmail.fr  Wed Aug 19 19:49:34 2009
From: nico_se at hotmail.fr (Nicolas Seichepine)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:49:34 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Command mail interface not responding
Message-ID: <BAY117-W104782DC7C834A7D7755D8F8FE0@phx.gbl>


Hi,

I've got a problem with the command mail interface. I currently use mailman 2.1.5 and debian.

The problem is the following : the mail sent to list_name-request at domain.xx have no effect at all

- it seems that there is no delivery issues (nothing in bounce log and no delivery error mail, the alias seems to be correctly defined))
- the system was previously functionning, and I do not understand what has changed (and the script involved have not been modified)
- nothing appears in mailman/logs/error
- there is no difficulty to post on the list...

I hope somebody will have an idea...

Nicolas

_________________________________________________________________
In?dit ! Des Emotic?nes D?jant?es! Installez les dans votre Messenger !
http://www.ilovemessenger.fr/Emoticones/EmoticonesDejantees.aspx

From rob.macgregor at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 08:52:21 2009
From: rob.macgregor at gmail.com (Rob MacGregor)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:52:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Word Wrap
In-Reply-To: <49566.207.224.66.127.1250617191.squirrel@www.clercscar.com>
References: <49566.207.224.66.127.1250617191.squirrel@www.clercscar.com>
Message-ID: <43ea8d070908182352n274b55a0re3ddb26754bf3faf@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 18:39, Adrean Clark<cs at clercscar.com> wrote:
>
> Word wrap was forced. ?The text I pasted was not supposed to have line
> breaks, it was supposed to fit the width of the mail program. ?Plain text
> usually runs the width of the screen it's on ?-- that's what I want, not
> forced line ends. ?Hope I'm making sense.

For some definition of usually - yes ;)  Traditionally plain text
wraps at under 80 characters (72-78 being a fairly common maximum) and
many mail clients will support that behaviour.  What you describe is a
relatively recent change in the way plain text emails are displayed.

> I checked the archives and the line breaks were there.
>
> So it must be my mail program that's causing the problem? ?I tried sending
> the same message from Google mail and my SquirrelMail program -- both had
> the hard wrap.

Are you doing a copy-and-paste?  That'll preserve existing line wraps
and you'll get the behaviour you describe.  If you want it to flow
then you have to ensure that you enter it with line breaks only where
you want them.

Note that even if you do that, the final handling is up to the mail
client.  Some will hard wrap the lines anyway and some will flow
hard-wrapped lines.

-- 
                 Please keep list traffic on the list.

Rob MacGregor
      Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he
        doesn't become a monster.                  Friedrich Nietzsche

From Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil  Wed Aug 19 16:07:46 2009
From: Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil (Hicks, Robert CTR)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:07:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat RPM install
Message-ID: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1036FF2D8@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>

I am moving a list to a new server. I have installed everything and I am going through the Exim part of the installation manual. For a RH install, do I still need to setup the mailman_router and mailman_transport or does RH assume I will be using the /etc/aliases way (which is how the setup I am moving away from works)? There are other quirky differences between the install manual and what RH did with theirs but this is the only one I have questions about.

Thanks for any information you can give.

Bob H.



From selectperformers at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 16:20:16 2009
From: selectperformers at gmail.com (Ian Gray)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:20:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing
Message-ID: <94bded120908200720w4216d47fhe1ff9a218253425b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello.

Please be kind to me, although I have used mailman on a personal level
for some years, I have only used Mailman as offered free from our web
host. I no nothing about python and have got confused by some of the
technical language used in the archive. I can only edit Mailman
through the admin interface as it has been offered from my host
(probably on a shared server)

One of our clients wanted us to give him 4 mailing lists along side
the website we built for him. I made 2 into announce only lists (using
info I found on a blog) and two as standard mailing lists.

The client wants to receive bounces. However I am aware that mailman
usually handles these. I think he wants the member to be automatically
disabled when a bounce is received and for him to receive that.

Here is some info on the list:
Mailman v.2.1.6
I've set the same 3 email addresses (myself, client, client's wife)
for the admin and for the moderator.

Bounce Processing settings:
* Should Mailman perform automatic bounce processing? YES
* The maximum member bounce score before the member's subscription is
disabled. 0.5
* The number of days after which a member's bounce information is discarded 7
* How many Your Membership Is Disabled warnings a disabled member
should get before their address is removed from the mailing list. 0
* The number of days between sending the Your Membership Is Disabled warnings. 7
* Should Mailman send you, the list owner, any bounce messages that
failed to be detected by the bounce processor? YES
* Should Mailman notify you, the list owner, when bounces cause a
member's subscription to be disabled? YES
* Should Mailman notify you, the list owner, when bounces cause a
member to be unsubscribed? YES



I would have thought with the above settings that if a bounce is
received the subscriber would be disabled and the admin would be sent
the bounce if the email address is incorrect. However I added some
fake email addresses and sent some test emails out and nothing was
received.

I assume that all 3 admins should receive the bounce?

Hope you can help me!

Ian

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 22 02:51:52 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:51:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with members subscribing using the
	webinterface
In-Reply-To: <20090821155147.7692.630E056E@billnot.com>
Message-ID: <PC192200908211751520343e0c1e74b@msapiro>

Bill Hayles wrote:
>
>I'm setting up Mailman using the package (2.1.11) supplied with OpenSuSE
>11.1, using Apache as the web server (and exim as MTA, but I don't think
>that's relevant).
[...]
>admin(12480): [----- Python Information -----] 
>admin(12480): sys.version     =   2.6 (r26:66714, Feb  3 2009, 20:52:03) 


Mailman 2.1.11 and Python 2.6 are incompatible. Either upgrade Mailman
to 2.1.12 or downgrade Python to 2.5.x

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 22 02:56:50 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:56:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman download.
In-Reply-To: <20090821130353.7umjoc6jkg8cwgo4@webmail.kmosolutions.be>
Message-ID: <PC192200908211756500734e0c1e8d0@msapiro>

KMO Solutions.be wrote:
>
>I can download the Milman zip, but i can't open it?
>Can you make an new zip file and send it to me?


We don't distribute a zip file. The GNU Mailman project distributes
gzipped tarballs (.tgz files).

If you're really talking about a .zip file, it didn't come from us.
Contact whoever priovided it or go to
<http://www.list.org/download.html> to download our distribution.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 22 02:58:56 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:58:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reseting mailman password
In-Reply-To: <4A8D9C70.80507@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <PC192200908211758560609e0c1e859@msapiro>

Martin Barr-David wrote:

>I am an administrator  of an email list and lost the password to the 
>admin interface what can I do please help


Contact whoever is responsible for the Mailman installation you use
(your hosting provider) and ask them to set a new password for your
list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 22 03:02:13 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:02:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Command mail interface not responding
In-Reply-To: <BAY117-W104782DC7C834A7D7755D8F8FE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC192200908211802130921ce771766@msapiro>

Nicolas Seichepine wrote:
>
>I've got a problem with the command mail interface. I currently use mailman 2.1.5 and debian.
>
>The problem is the following : the mail sent to list_name-request at domain.xx have no effect at all
>
>- it seems that there is no delivery issues (nothing in bounce log and no delivery error mail, the alias seems to be correctly defined))
>- the system was previously functionning, and I do not understand what has changed (and the script involved have not been modified)
>- nothing appears in mailman/logs/error
>- there is no difficulty to post on the list...


The most likely explaination is the CommandRunner is not running. Are
the messages in qfiles/commands? Is CommandRunner running?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 22 03:07:23 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:07:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not automatically updating its aliases
	file
In-Reply-To: <74F440BE5406B44DA9FA6DB492320152960627@Exchange01.win2k.tsl.state.tx.us>
Message-ID: <PC1922009082118072302658f620fe0@msapiro>

Mark Ratcliff wrote:
> 
>We installed mm2.1.9 via yum on a RHEL5.3 server with postfix installed.
> 
>varprefix=/var/lib/mailman and prefix =/usr/lib/mailman.
> 
>This is what I have for custom lines in my mm_cfg.py:
> 
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mm server name'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mm server name'
> 
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> 
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = 0
>OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = 1
> 
>My problem is that whenever I use the newlist command and I create a
>list, it doesnt automatically update the aliases file. According to the
>install documentation on the mailman website, I only had to do a few
>things including adding MTA='Postfix', etc. Are there any other settings
>that I need to check on in order to make sure it is working?


Does newlist report any error?

Are /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases* not being updated or is the problem
that Postfix doesn't use those aliases?

See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 22 03:19:57 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:19:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat RPM install
In-Reply-To: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1036FF2D8@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>
Message-ID: <PC192200908211819570750755d22e7@msapiro>

Hicks, Robert CTR wrote:

>I am moving a list to a new server. I have installed everything and I am going through the Exim part of the installation manual. For a RH install, do I still need to setup the mailman_router and mailman_transport or does RH assume I will be using the /etc/aliases way (which is how the setup I am moving away from works)? There are other quirky differences between the install manual and what RH did with theirs but this is the only one I have questions about.


This is a question for RedHat, but if you're using exim, the best
advice I can give is set up a mailman router and transport in exim per
<http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html> and set MTA = None in
mm_cfg.py.

If you want Mailman to maintain aliases, you have to set MTA =
'Postfix' which will tell mailman to maintain aliases in its data/
directory (data/aliases) and invoke POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD to "install"
them. You would need to figure out what command or script to reference
as POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD to do this. The FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/joA9> discusses doing this for sendmail, but
if you're using exim, it's better to do it the exim way.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From thomas at ifi.uio.no  Sat Aug 22 03:04:17 2009
From: thomas at ifi.uio.no (Thomas Gramstad)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 03:04:17 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preventing postings with no Subject:?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64-L.0908220300410.32474@ben.ifi.uio.no>

How can I prevent postings with no Subject: from being
distributed via a Mailman mailing list?

Ideally there would be a way to automatically reject
the posting and return it to the sender and ask them
to post it again with a Subject:-line.

Or at least a way to have Subject:-less postings placed
in the moderation queue.

Thomas Gramstad
thomas at ifi.uio.no

From scott at 916networks.com  Sat Aug 22 03:26:28 2009
From: scott at 916networks.com (Scott Race)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:26:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not automatically updating its aliases
	file
In-Reply-To: <74F440BE5406B44DA9FA6DB492320152960627@Exchange01.win2k.tsl.state.tx.us>
References: <74F440BE5406B44DA9FA6DB492320152960627@Exchange01.win2k.tsl.state.tx.us>
Message-ID: <D1BF7B57DCE278498A63B829F5559CCA378400B6E1@P3PW5EX1MB01.EX1.SECURESERVER.NET>

Check the permissions and ownership of the aliases file (not in front of my install, but documentation tells you how it should be set - I believe on my install the group ownership is list)

Also - I believe your Postfix main.cf file needs to have an entry pointing to an additional aliases file, instead of updating the /etc/aliases file.  However, on a fresh install a few days ago (my first 2.1.11 install), I found that it's dropping the aliases file that it updates in something like /var/lib/mailman.  That was new to me, but seemed to work out of the box.

So go to your root directory and do a 

#find -name aliases

and see if you have multiple aliases files, maybe it's hanging out in the mailman install directory.

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+scott=916networks.com at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+scott=916networks.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Ratcliff
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 10:29 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not automatically updating its aliases file

Hi,
I was recently tasked with setting up a new mailman server.
 
We installed mm2.1.9 via yum on a RHEL5.3 server with postfix installed.
 
varprefix=/var/lib/mailman and prefix =/usr/lib/mailman.
 
This is what I have for custom lines in my mm_cfg.py:
 
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mm server name'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mm server name'
 
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
 
MTA = 'Postfix'
VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = 0
OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = 1
 
My problem is that whenever I use the newlist command and I create a
list, it doesnt automatically update the aliases file. According to the
install documentation on the mailman website, I only had to do a few
things including adding MTA='Postfix', etc. Are there any other settings
that I need to check on in order to make sure it is working?
 
Thanks for any replies.
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/scott%40916networks.com

Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 22 03:35:34 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:35:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing
In-Reply-To: <94bded120908200720w4216d47fhe1ff9a218253425b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1922009082118353407344b12ce40@msapiro>

Ian Gray wrote:
>
>The client wants to receive bounces. However I am aware that mailman
>usually handles these. I think he wants the member to be automatically
>disabled when a bounce is received and for him to receive that.


If this is what the client wants, See below.

>Here is some info on the list:
>Mailman v.2.1.6
>I've set the same 3 email addresses (myself, client, client's wife)
>for the admin and for the moderator.


It is redundant to add the same address as both owner and moderator. It
means that most notices will be sent with that address as RCPT twice
which depending on the MTA will at best send it once and at worst send
a duplicate.


>Bounce Processing settings:
>* Should Mailman perform automatic bounce processing? YES
>* The maximum member bounce score before the member's subscription is
>disabled. 0.5
>* The number of days after which a member's bounce information is discarded 7
>* How many Your Membership Is Disabled warnings a disabled member
>should get before their address is removed from the mailing list. 0


This is OK if you want the member to be removed from the list on the
first bounce, but if you want to merely disable delivery while the
list owner decides if the bounce is 'fatal' or not, set this greater
than 0


>* The number of days between sending the Your Membership Is Disabled warnings. 7
>* Should Mailman send you, the list owner, any bounce messages that
>failed to be detected by the bounce processor? YES
>* Should Mailman notify you, the list owner, when bounces cause a
>member's subscription to be disabled? YES
>* Should Mailman notify you, the list owner, when bounces cause a
>member to be unsubscribed? YES
>
>
>
>I would have thought with the above settings that if a bounce is
>received the subscriber would be disabled and the admin would be sent
>the bounce if the email address is incorrect. However I added some
>fake email addresses and sent some test emails out and nothing was
>received.


Actually, with those settings the bouncing subscriber will be removed
and the admins will receive both a disabled and an unsubscribed
notice. The disabled notice will have a copy of the bounce.


>I assume that all 3 admins should receive the bounce?


They should. I don't know why they don't. Are you sure the fake
addresses are not actually deliverable? It is not clear to me whether
you are hosting this web site and Mailman installation or not, but
debugging this further will probably require access to the mail log
and Mailman's logs on the server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 22 03:46:11 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:46:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preventing postings with no Subject:?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64-L.0908220300410.32474@ben.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <PC192200908211846110968b35a3f93@msapiro>

Thomas Gramstad wrote:

>How can I prevent postings with no Subject: from being
>distributed via a Mailman mailing list?
>
>Ideally there would be a way to automatically reject
>the posting and return it to the sender and ask them
>to post it again with a Subject:-line.
>
>Or at least a way to have Subject:-less postings placed
>in the moderation queue.


Use Privacy options... -> Spam filters -> header_filter_rules

You want a first rule with regexps like

^Subject:\s*$
^Subject:[[(<{\s]*no subject[])>}\s]*$

and action Reject or Hold

Then a second rule to pass all the good subjects with regexp

^Subject:

and action Accept

Finally a third rule with regexp

.

and action Reject or Hold to catch all messages without a Subject:
header at all.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 22 04:03:30 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:03:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply-to munging depending on sender
	subscriberstatus?
In-Reply-To: <6AF1120D-5DAA-41F7-9B6F-AB9AB9202DFA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC192200908211903300718b35a3eac@msapiro>

David Reitter wrote:
>
>Is it possible to configure Mailman to set the Reply-To header of a  
>message depending on whether the sender is subscribed to the mailing  
>list?


Only by modifying the code in Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 22 17:18:29 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:18:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman post not sent to email address in same
	domain
In-Reply-To: <4A8FE13E.2000702@sixwebsites.com>
Message-ID: <PC1922009082208182908121dc66289@msapiro>

Bradley Cummins, Member Manager wrote:

>After six months of positive results, I could use some help trying to 
>figure out why Mailman seems to be producing inconsistent results. 
>
>You'll see in the two postings below which were taken from the smtp log 
>that a member was dropped in the second posting.  I also looked through 
>the maillog, and found the same result there.  One email address was 
>left off of the list serve recipients. 
>
>Aug 21 17:17:22 2009 (3634) <xxx> smtp to members for 153 recips, 
>completed in 33.377 seconds
>Aug 21 18:02:16 2009 (3634) <xxx> smtp to members for 152 recips, 
>completed in 33.898 seconds
>
>The member's roster didn't change during this time. The email address in 
>question (which was left off the second posting) is part of the same 
>domain as the sender and the list serve.  It received the first email 
>which originated from another domain.


A post will be sent to all regular (non-digest) members with delivery
enabled except it will not be sent to the poster if the poster has
selected 'not metoo' and it will not be sent to any member address in
a To: or Cc: header if the member has selected 'nodups'.

If the member address that didn't receive the second post was still a
regular member with delivery enabled and was not the sender of the
second post and was not directly addressed in To: or Cc: of the second
post, check Mailman's smtp-failure log to see if there was a problem
with this delivery.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bernie at fantasyfarm.com  Mon Aug 24 17:14:24 2009
From: bernie at fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:14:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting info about bounces
Message-ID: <4A927610.30851.31D4ACF@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>

How can I figure out *WHY* a particular user's email is bouncing?   A 
member on one list, with whom I've exchanged email without a problem [and 
who successfully received the "Your membership in the mailing list has 
been disabled due to excessive bounces" messages [which, of course, 
didn't bounce..:o)]  So the question arises: why did mailman think there 
were excessive bounces?  Is there some log or something that would 
include the 'reason' info that the SMTP server sent back so I and the 
user [and their ISP] can try to figure out what the problem was?

Thanks!  /bernie\
-- 
Bernie Cosell                     Fantasy Farm Fibers
mailto:bernie at fantasyfarm.com     Pearisburg, VA
    -->  Too many people, too few sheep  <--       




From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 24 17:39:20 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:39:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting info about bounces
In-Reply-To: <4A927610.30851.31D4ACF@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
Message-ID: <PC1922009082408392001255e6566d1@msapiro>

Bernie Cosell wrote:

>How can I figure out *WHY* a particular user's email is bouncing?   A 
>member on one list, with whom I've exchanged email without a problem [and 
>who successfully received the "Your membership in the mailing list has 
>been disabled due to excessive bounces" messages [which, of course, 
>didn't bounce..:o)]  So the question arises: why did mailman think there 
>were excessive bounces?  Is there some log or something that would 
>include the 'reason' info that the SMTP server sent back so I and the 
>user [and their ISP] can try to figure out what the problem was?


The bounces, but not the reasons, are logged in Mailman's bounce log.

If Bounce processing -> bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is set to Yes, a
notice will be sent to the list owner containing the actual bounce
which triggers disabling the member's delivery.

Your system mail log may also contain information about the bounces if
the bounces originate at the local MTA.
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 24 18:42:12 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:42:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not automatically updating its aliases
	file
In-Reply-To: <74F440BE5406B44DA9FA6DB49232015296062B@Exchange01.win2k.tsl.state.tx.us>
Message-ID: <PC1922009082409421207345e65692a@msapiro>

Mark Ratcliff wrote:
> 
>Newlist doesn't report any errors.


If newlist doesn't report an error, and you have as you said MTA =
'Postfix' in mm_cfg.py, then newlist must be updating some aliases
file.


>As far as I can tell postfix sees the
>/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db just fine but when I add a new list the
>newlist command does not write the new aliases to the aliases file nor
>does it update the aliases.db file. 


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/KYCB>. It claims the aliases are
at /etc/mailman/aliases in recent RedHat. I think that this is just a
symlink to /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases or vice versa, but it's worth
a look.


>Ownership is set to mailman:mailman with group read/write perms on the
>aliases file ( I had to create this file manually ).


Have you tried running bin/genaliases? That may do something. You
shouldn't have had to create /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases. The fact
that you did says newlist is writing aliases elsewhere.


>Could this just be a bug in the RHEL5 package? I can work around this by
>just manually updating aliases, however I'd like to try to find out if
>maybe I did something wrong. 


I don't think it's a bug, but RedHat relocates many things for FHS
compliance for SELinux. I think it's just a matter of finding where
things are.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bradley at sixwebsites.com  Sat Aug 22 14:14:54 2009
From: bradley at sixwebsites.com (Bradley Cummins, Member Manager)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:14:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman post not sent to email address in same
	domain
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090204072751043790425e28@msapiro>
References: <PC187020090204072751043790425e28@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4A8FE13E.2000702@sixwebsites.com>

After six months of positive results, I could use some help trying to 
figure out why Mailman seems to be producing inconsistent results. 

You'll see in the two postings below which were taken from the smtp log 
that a member was dropped in the second posting.  I also looked through 
the maillog, and found the same result there.  One email address was 
left off of the list serve recipients. 

Aug 21 17:17:22 2009 (3634) <xxx> smtp to members for 153 recips, 
completed in 33.377 seconds
Aug 21 18:02:16 2009 (3634) <xxx> smtp to members for 152 recips, 
completed in 33.898 seconds

The member's roster didn't change during this time. The email address in 
question (which was left off the second posting) is part of the same 
domain as the sender and the list serve.  It received the first email 
which originated from another domain.

Any ideas?

Thank you greatly for your input...
bkc

From mratcliff at tsl.state.tx.us  Mon Aug 24 17:50:07 2009
From: mratcliff at tsl.state.tx.us (Mark Ratcliff)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:50:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not automatically updating its aliases
	file
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009082118072302658f620fe0@msapiro>
References: <74F440BE5406B44DA9FA6DB492320152960627@Exchange01.win2k.tsl.state.tx.us>
	<PC1922009082118072302658f620fe0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <74F440BE5406B44DA9FA6DB49232015296062B@Exchange01.win2k.tsl.state.tx.us>

 
Newlist doesn't report any errors. As far as I can tell postfix sees the
/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db just fine but when I add a new list the
newlist command does not write the new aliases to the aliases file nor
does it update the aliases.db file. 

Ownership is set to mailman:mailman with group read/write perms on the
aliases file ( I had to create this file manually ).

Could this just be a bug in the RHEL5 package? I can work around this by
just manually updating aliases, however I'd like to try to find out if
maybe I did something wrong. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 8:07 PM
To: Mark Ratcliff; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not automatically updating its
aliases file

Mark Ratcliff wrote:
> 
>We installed mm2.1.9 via yum on a RHEL5.3 server with postfix
installed.
> 
>varprefix=/var/lib/mailman and prefix =/usr/lib/mailman.
> 
>This is what I have for custom lines in my mm_cfg.py:
> 
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mm server name'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mm server name'
> 
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> 
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = 0
>OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = 1
> 
>My problem is that whenever I use the newlist command and I create a 
>list, it doesnt automatically update the aliases file. According to the

>install documentation on the mailman website, I only had to do a few 
>things including adding MTA='Postfix', etc. Are there any other 
>settings that I need to check on in order to make sure it is working?


Does newlist report any error?

Are /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases* not being updated or is the problem
that Postfix doesn't use those aliases?

See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mratcliff at tsl.state.tx.us  Mon Aug 24 18:05:14 2009
From: mratcliff at tsl.state.tx.us (Mark Ratcliff)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:05:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not automatically updating its aliases
	file
In-Reply-To: <D1BF7B57DCE278498A63B829F5559CCA378400B6E1@P3PW5EX1MB01.EX1.SECURESERVER.NET>
References: <74F440BE5406B44DA9FA6DB492320152960627@Exchange01.win2k.tsl.state.tx.us>
	<D1BF7B57DCE278498A63B829F5559CCA378400B6E1@P3PW5EX1MB01.EX1.SECURESERVER.NET>
Message-ID: <74F440BE5406B44DA9FA6DB49232015296062C@Exchange01.win2k.tsl.state.tx.us>


This worked. I was able to find where it was being written to, which was
/etc/mailman/aliases when I was expecting it to be in
/var/lib/mailman/data. All I have to do is point postfix to this
directory and all will be well.

Thanks! 

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Race [mailto:scott at 916networks.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 8:26 PM
To: Mark Ratcliff
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: Mailman not automatically updating its aliases file

Check the permissions and ownership of the aliases file (not in front of
my install, but documentation tells you how it should be set - I believe
on my install the group ownership is list)

Also - I believe your Postfix main.cf file needs to have an entry
pointing to an additional aliases file, instead of updating the
/etc/aliases file.  However, on a fresh install a few days ago (my first
2.1.11 install), I found that it's dropping the aliases file that it
updates in something like /var/lib/mailman.  That was new to me, but
seemed to work out of the box.

So go to your root directory and do a 

#find -name aliases

and see if you have multiple aliases files, maybe it's hanging out in
the mailman install directory.

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+scott=916networks.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+scott=916networks.com at python.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Ratcliff
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 10:29 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not automatically updating its aliases
file

Hi,
I was recently tasked with setting up a new mailman server.
 
We installed mm2.1.9 via yum on a RHEL5.3 server with postfix installed.
 
varprefix=/var/lib/mailman and prefix =/usr/lib/mailman.
 
This is what I have for custom lines in my mm_cfg.py:
 
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mm server name'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mm server name'
 
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
 
MTA = 'Postfix'
VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = 0
OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = 1
 
My problem is that whenever I use the newlist command and I create a
list, it doesnt automatically update the aliases file. According to the
install documentation on the mailman website, I only had to do a few
things including adding MTA='Postfix', etc. Are there any other settings
that I need to check on in order to make sure it is working?
 
Thanks for any replies.
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/scott%40916networks
.com

Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Aug 25 06:24:24 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:24:24 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman post not sent to email address in
	same	domain
In-Reply-To: <4A8FE13E.2000702@sixwebsites.com>
References: <PC187020090204072751043790425e28@msapiro>
	<4A8FE13E.2000702@sixwebsites.com>
Message-ID: <878wh834hz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Bradley Cummins, Member Manager writes:

 > You'll see in the two postings below which were taken from the smtp log 
 > that a member was dropped in the second posting.  I also looked through 
 > the maillog, and found the same result there.  One email address was 
 > left off of the list serve recipients. 

 > Any ideas?

The email address which was dropped may have been the poster or an
explicit recipient, with the appropriate "no dupes, please" flag set.
There are two of these; 'not metoo' says "don't send to me when I am
the poster," 'nodupes' "don't send to the post to me if I am in To or
Cc."


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Aug 25 14:46:20 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:46:20 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [SOLVED] Mailman post not sent to email address in
	same domain
In-Reply-To: <878wh834hz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC187020090204072751043790425e28@msapiro>
	<4A8FE13E.2000702@sixwebsites.com>
	<878wh834hz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <87vdkc12oz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Stephen J. Turnbull writes:

 > The email address which was dropped may have been the poster or an
 > explicit recipient, with the appropriate "no dupes, please" flag set.
 > There are two of these; 'not metoo' says "don't send to me when I am
 > the poster," 'nodupes' "don't send to the post to me if I am in To or
 > Cc."

The OP wrote me off-list (presumably expecting Reply-To munging) to
indicate that the omitted address was CC'd.  Figure I may as well
reply here and save a couple KB of bandwidth.

Another happy ending on Mailman-Users!

From dave at mudsite.com  Tue Aug 25 14:55:20 2009
From: dave at mudsite.com (David Walker)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:55:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuration Question: Regarding mailfilter based
	email addresses
Message-ID: <694d3fc20908250555q9778808ja9b7617cc7ed76c9@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry if the subject is not quite clear, but I have a question on
configuring mailman.  I set up a list for a group I'm apart of, and one
person uses easier to filter on email addresses.  I guess I'll jump to the
example it'll make sense then

Suppose I had an email:  person at world.com

However, for the purpose of mailman-users list I want to register my email
as: person+mmusers at world.com <person%2Bmmusers at world.com>

As we all (or at least most may) know, the +tag format described in RFC3696
(http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3696) allows for this format.  However
mailman, doesn't.  Since the "registered" user person+mmusers exists and is
all good, when person sends a message to the list it gets bounced.

So my question is: how can I configure mailman to allow person to post when
he registered as person+mmusers

Thanks!
--
Dave

From andale at excaliburworld.com  Tue Aug 25 19:29:27 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:29:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] won't let me edit the HTML
Message-ID: <p0624084cc6b9cfec126f@[64.142.30.27]>

I am trying to customize our Options page, and I want to add links to 
our main website within the page (really the only changes I am 
making).  When I try to save, I get:

"The page you saved contains suspicious HTML that could potentially 
expose your users to cross-site scripting attacks. This change has 
therefore been rejected. If you still want to make these changes, you 
must have shell access to your Mailman server."

Cross-site scripting attacks from a simple link?  I'm feeling the 
weight of big brother here.

The error page includes a link to FAQ 4.48, which displays:
Below you will find links to our Frequently Asked Questions. There 
are hundreds of entries, so they're organized into several sections: 
click on each section to view the questions for that section, or use 
the "View in Hierarchy" link to see them all listed in a tree. (you 
will need to click on the + signs to expand the tree and see all 
questions)
You may also wish to make use of the site search (in the top right 
hand corner) to find a particular error message or problem.
Labels 
extract, emails

Children (6)   Hide Children  |  View in Hierarchy
  1 Introduction - What is GNU Mailman?
  2 Help for mailing list members
  3 List administrator tasks
  4 Site administrator tasks
  5 Downloading and installing Mailman
  6 Integration issues (with mail or web servers)

Nothing obvious here on how to resolve this issue.

Anybody have the short and skinny solution for getting around this?

Thanks,
Bill

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Tue Aug 25 20:29:48 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:29:48 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuration Question: Regarding mailfilter
	based email addresses
In-Reply-To: <694d3fc20908250555q9778808ja9b7617cc7ed76c9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <694d3fc20908250555q9778808ja9b7617cc7ed76c9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090825182948.GM30597@amyl.org.uk>

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 08:55:20AM -0400, David Walker wrote:
> Since the "registered" user person+mmusers exists and is
> all good, when person sends a message to the list it gets bounced.
> 
> So my question is: how can I configure mailman to allow person to post when
> he registered as person+mmusers

I'd probably use list_members, diff, awk, and with_list as a cron'd
job.

(or list_members > file.new, diff file.new against file: if there are
changes; pass the appropriate localpart plus an appropriate wildcard
regexp [1]via awk to an outfile, and feed the outfile to with_list
assaulting 'accept_these_nonmembers', or if no changes, bail out).

I've not got anything written for that purpose, but it shouldn't take
too long to work out a quick script to do that. Saying that "it
shouldn't take too long" does assume some knowledge of scripting, and
awk, not always the friendliest ways. And, natch, does require the
abilitity to run/create cronjobs on the machine where Mailman's
installed/accessible to.

An easier option may be to wildcard accept people's domains, but that
could be rather pointless, say with non-(personal|vanity|corporate)
domains and en-masse email hosting providers (gmail, hotmail, &c)

[1] <http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg51929.html>
    may be a good starting point.
-- 
``Foot-and-mouth believed to be first virus
  unable to spread through Microsoft Outlook'' (spoof headline)

From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Tue Aug 25 20:38:17 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:38:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuration Question: Regarding mailfilter
 based	email addresses
In-Reply-To: <694d3fc20908250555q9778808ja9b7617cc7ed76c9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <694d3fc20908250555q9778808ja9b7617cc7ed76c9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A942F99.2090103@riverviewtech.net>

On 08/25/09 07:55, David Walker wrote:
> However mailman, doesn't.  Since the "registered" user person+mmusers 
> exists and is all good, when person sends a message to the list it 
> gets bounced.
> 
> So my question is: how can I configure mailman to allow person to 
> post when he registered as person+mmusers

I personally ran in to that very issue a while ago.  My (sub-optimal) 
solution was to subscribe both "person" and "person+mmusers" to the 
mailing list.  I have "person" subscribed, but set to not receive 
deliveries, for the sole purpose of recognizing when I send emails from 
"person".

I don't know if it is still the case, but last I messed with this, this 
was the only trivial solution that I found.  Since then I have done it 
multiple times on multiple different lists and it works out quite well.



Grant. . . .

From andale at excaliburworld.com  Wed Aug 26 00:30:30 2009
From: andale at excaliburworld.com (Bill Catambay)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:30:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] won't let me edit the HTML
Message-ID: <p0624085ac6ba15fd7e81@[64.142.30.27]>

I have an update on this.  I was trying to pinpoint exactly what 
"change" caused this, and as I deleted changes, starting with the 
link, I still kept getting the same rejection.  Then I just went to 
edit the page, and made no changes at all, clicked on Submit Changes, 
and it *still* gave me the rejection.  Am I missing something?


Bill


>I am trying to customize our Options page, and I want to add links 
>to our main website within the page (really the only changes I am 
>making).  When I try to save, I get:
>
>"The page you saved contains suspicious HTML that could potentially 
>expose your users to cross-site scripting attacks. This change has 
>therefore been rejected. If you still want to make these changes, 
>you must have shell access to your Mailman server."
>
>Cross-site scripting attacks from a simple link?  I'm feeling the 
>weight of big brother here.


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 26 05:57:47 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:57:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuration Question: Regarding
	mailfilterbased	email addresses
In-Reply-To: <4A942F99.2090103@riverviewtech.net>
Message-ID: <PC1922009082520574703282db02eb7@msapiro>

Grant Taylor wrote:

>On 08/25/09 07:55, David Walker wrote:
>> 
>> So my question is: how can I configure mailman to allow person to 
>> post when he registered as person+mmusers
>
>I personally ran in to that very issue a while ago.  My (sub-optimal) 
>solution was to subscribe both "person" and "person+mmusers" to the 
>mailing list.  I have "person" subscribed, but set to not receive 
>deliveries, for the sole purpose of recognizing when I send emails from 
>"person".
>
>I don't know if it is still the case, but last I messed with this, this 
>was the only trivial solution that I found.  Since then I have done it 
>multiple times on multiple different lists and it works out quite well.


That is the user based solution. The list admin based solution is to
add person at example.com or ^person(\+.*)?@example\.com to
accept_these_nonmembers.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 26 06:12:08 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:12:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] won't let me edit the HTML
In-Reply-To: <p0624085ac6ba15fd7e81@[64.142.30.27]>
Message-ID: <PC192200908252112080859e4b22563@msapiro>

Bill Catambay wrote:

>I have an update on this.  I was trying to pinpoint exactly what 
>"change" caused this, and as I deleted changes, starting with the 
>link, I still kept getting the same rejection.  Then I just went to 
>edit the page, and made no changes at all, clicked on Submit Changes, 
>and it *still* gave me the rejection.  Am I missing something?


The cause is the

    <link rel="SHORTCUT ICON" href="<mm-favicon>">

line in the base template. This was fixed in Mailman 2.1.12 by
exempting that specific link tag, but in Mailman 2.1.9 through 2.1.11,
the easiest thing is to remove the offending line from your edited
template.

See
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2164798&group_id=103&atid=100103>
for more info on this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Wed Aug 26 16:09:41 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:09:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuration Question:
 Regarding	mailfilterbased email addresses
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009082520574703282db02eb7@msapiro>
References: <PC1922009082520574703282db02eb7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4A954225.4020103@riverviewtech.net>

On 08/25/09 22:57, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> That is the user based solution.

Agreed.

> The list admin based solution is to add person at example.com or 
> ^person(\+.*)?@example\.com to accept_these_nonmembers.

I don't know if I would call that a "solution" so much as I would a (per 
user) "work around".

I would be much more interested in a per list option as to whether or 
not to honor (understand and utilize) user+detail addresses.  I would 
consider that to be a true solution.



Grant. . . .

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 26 16:40:19 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:40:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuration
	Question:Regarding	mailfilterbased email addresses
In-Reply-To: <4A954225.4020103@riverviewtech.net>
Message-ID: <PC19220090826074019043717b1f888@msapiro>

Grant Taylor wrote:

>On 08/25/09 22:57, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> The list admin based solution is to add person at example.com or 
>> ^person(\+.*)?@example\.com to accept_these_nonmembers.
>
>I don't know if I would call that a "solution" so much as I would a (per 
>user) "work around".


Yes, it is a work-around, not a true solution.


>I would be much more interested in a per list option as to whether or 
>not to honor (understand and utilize) user+detail addresses.  I would 
>consider that to be a true solution.


The OP says "the +tag format described in RFC3696
(http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3696) allows for this format." I don't
know if RFC 3696 is the intended reference, but I see nothing in that
RFC regarding the semantics of a local part containing a '+' (or a '-'
which is sometimes used for the same purpose.

Both RFC 2821 and it's successor RFC 5321 say

  Consequently, and due to a
  long history of problems when intermediate hosts have attempted to
  optimize transport by modifying them, the local-part MUST be
  interpreted and assigned semantics only by the host specified in the
  domain part of the address.

Thus, I think it is ultimately up to the user to specify what other
local parts are equivalent to that of the delivery address, and it is
not up to Mailman to guess this.

Note that Mailman 3 will make this much easier as it will have a single
user record with the ability to specify multiple addresses.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Wed Aug 26 16:51:33 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:51:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users]
 Configuration	Question:Regarding	mailfilterbased email addresses
In-Reply-To: <PC19220090826074019043717b1f888@msapiro>
References: <PC19220090826074019043717b1f888@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4A954BF5.4080000@riverviewtech.net>

On 08/26/09 09:40, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> The OP says "the +tag format described in RFC3696 
> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3696) allows for this format." I don't 
> know if RFC 3696 is the intended reference, but I see nothing in that 
> RFC regarding the semantics of a local part containing a '+' (or a 
> '-' which is sometimes used for the same purpose.

I see examples of the user+detail in RFC 3696, but like you I don't see 
any reference as to how it is to be interpreted, just that it is allowed.

> Thus, I think it is ultimately up to the user to specify what other 
> local parts are equivalent to that of the delivery address, and it is 
> not up to Mailman to guess this.

I can see how you come to that understanding.  (Further I don't have any 
problems with that understanding.)

The only thing that I see (and experience) is that it would be nice if 
Mailman did something (even if it was non-standard) to support 
user+detail format addresses.  What that /something/ is or should be, I 
have no idea.

> Note that Mailman 3 will make this much easier as it will have a 
> single user record with the ability to specify multiple addresses.

I think this will fill the bill quite nicely.



Grant. . . .

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 26 16:56:56 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:56:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuration Question: Regarding
	mailfilterbased email addresses
In-Reply-To: <694d3fc20908260725v511708f2r52ae82097604c527@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19220090826075656023494fee2e2@msapiro>

David Walker wrote:
>
>Thanks Mark.  However, as others will probably chime in, this is still a
>per-user setting.  IE I'd need to set a accept_these_nonmembers for everyone
>who uses the +tag email option.  I was thinking that there should be some
>config option that would (and if i knew python a bit better I may have
>attacked this)
>
>When mailman checks if this sender is registered, I'm assuming (sorry for
>the phpesque here):
>if (in_array($sender, $registered_users))
>
>Well before doing this check, the registered_users array could be walked
>through
>foreach($registered_user as &$user) {
>  $user = preg_replace('/(.*)+.*(@.*)/', '/$1$2/', $user);
>}


I have already given my opinion on this in another thread, but I note
that the above is not really correct. I think it's more complicated
than that. It is possible under the RFCs that the addresses
part0+part1 at example.com and part0+part2 at example.com belong to
different people.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From anebi at iguanait.com  Wed Aug 26 09:44:29 2009
From: anebi at iguanait.com (anebi at iguanait.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:44:29 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some questions about mailing list email addresses
	that messages	come from
Message-ID: <1251272669.3029.20.camel@hugo.iguanait.com>

Hi,

we have installed mailman-2.1.9-4.el5 on Centos 5.

What i notice is that when i subscribe or when i receive a message from
the mailing list all messages are send from
listname-bounce at myhostname.tld.

Why this happen? Should it send messages using aliases defined
in /etc/mailman/aliases?

When i unsubscribe from the list, from filed is also
listname-bounce at ....

What i have done wrong?

I have this configuration for this list:

moderator = []
description = 'my description'
info = 'something here'
subject_prefix = ''
anonymous_list = 1
first_strip_reply_to = 1
reply_goes_to_list = 0
reply_to_address = ''
umbrella_list = 0
umbrella_member_suffix = '-owner'
send_reminders = 0
welcome_msg = ''
send_welcome_msg = 0
goodbye_msg = ''
send_goodbye_msg = 1
admin_immed_notify = 1
admin_notify_mchanges = 0
respond_to_post_requests = 1
emergency = 0
new_member_options = 256
administrivia = 1
max_message_size = 1024
host_name = 'myhostname.domain.tld'
include_rfc2369_headers = 0
include_list_post_header = 0
max_days_to_hold = 2
preferred_language = 'en'
available_languages = ['en', 'es']
encode_ascii_prefixes = 2
nondigestable = 1
msg_header = ''
msg_footer = """_______________________________________________
%(real_name)s mailing list
%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s
%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s"""
scrub_nondigest = False
digestable = 0
digest_is_default = 0
mime_is_default_digest = 0
digest_size_threshhold = 0
digest_send_periodic = 1
digest_header = ''
digest_footer = """_______________________________________________
%(real_name)s mailing list
%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s
%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s"""
digest_volume_frequency = 1
advertised = 1
subscribe_policy = 1
unsubscribe_policy = 0
ban_list = []
private_roster = 2
obscure_addresses = 1
default_member_moderation = 1
member_moderation_action = 0
member_moderation_notice = ''
accept_these_nonmembers = []
hold_these_nonmembers = []
reject_these_nonmembers = []
discard_these_nonmembers = []
generic_nonmember_action = 3
forward_auto_discards = 0
nonmember_rejection_notice = ''
require_explicit_destination = 1
max_num_recipients = 10
header_filter_rules = []
bounce_processing = 1
bounce_score_threshold = 5.0
bounce_info_stale_after = 7
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 3
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval = 7
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner = 1
bounce_notify_owner_on_disable = 1
bounce_notify_owner_on_removal = 1
archive = 1
archive_private = 0
archive_volume_frequency = 1
nntp_host = ''
linked_newsgroup = ''
gateway_to_news = 0
gateway_to_mail = 0
news_moderation = 0
news_prefix_subject_too = 1
autorespond_postings = 0
autoresponse_postings_text = ''
autorespond_admin = 0
autoresponse_admin_text = ''
autorespond_requests = 0
autoresponse_request_text = ''
autoresponse_graceperiod = 90
filter_content = 0
pass_mime_types = """multipart/mixed
multipart/alternative
text/plain"""
filter_filename_extensions = """exe
bat
cmd
com
pif
scr
vbs
cpl"""
pass_filename_extensions = ''
collapse_alternatives = True
convert_html_to_plaintext = 1
filter_action = 0
topics_enabled = 0
topics_bodylines_limit = 5
topics = []


From dave at mudsite.com  Wed Aug 26 16:25:50 2009
From: dave at mudsite.com (David Walker)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:25:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuration Question: Regarding
	mailfilterbased email addresses
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009082520574703282db02eb7@msapiro>
References: <4A942F99.2090103@riverviewtech.net>
	<PC1922009082520574703282db02eb7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <694d3fc20908260725v511708f2r52ae82097604c527@mail.gmail.com>

>
> That is the user based solution. The list admin based solution is to
> add person at example.com or ^person(\+.*)?@example\.com to
> accept_these_nonmembers.


Thanks Mark.  However, as others will probably chime in, this is still a
per-user setting.  IE I'd need to set a accept_these_nonmembers for everyone
who uses the +tag email option.  I was thinking that there should be some
config option that would (and if i knew python a bit better I may have
attacked this)

When mailman checks if this sender is registered, I'm assuming (sorry for
the phpesque here):
if (in_array($sender, $registered_users))

Well before doing this check, the registered_users array could be walked
through
foreach($registered_user as &$user) {
  $user = preg_replace('/(.*)+.*(@.*)/', '/$1$2/', $user);
}

--
Dave

From ulf at ladb.unm.edu  Tue Aug 25 22:31:49 2009
From: ulf at ladb.unm.edu (Ulf Hofemeier)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:31:49 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM admin interface wide open
Message-ID: <4A944A35.9090904@ladb.unm.edu>

Hi,

I'm using MM 2.1.12 and am running into a problem that is rather nasty.
In my case the MM admin interface is wide open, which means that I don't
need a site admin pwd to access http://mydomain/mailman/admin/mylist. I
can click on logout and it will take me to the logout page, but simply
removing /logout from the URL will load the admin interface again.
Deleting the cookie doesn't help, closing the browser doesn't help. Oh,
yeah. The admin interface is accessible via Google as well.

*hysteric scream* HELP please! ;-)

PS. if you email me, I can provide you with the URL to my MM installation.

Thanks.
Ulf

-- 
Ulf Hofemeier
Programmer / Analyst II
Latin American and Iberian Institute
ulf at ladb.unm.edu 


From ycedres at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 14:19:46 2009
From: ycedres at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Yeray_Guti=E9rrez_Cedr=E9s?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:19:46 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatically add virtual-mailman aliases to a
	Postfix sender access list
Message-ID: <e54888080908260519w44846a51ha029fca089407d9e@mail.gmail.com>

I'm new to Mailman and I wonder if there is a proper way to
automatically add the addresses created in the virtual-mailman file
(when a new list is created) to a list for the check_sender_access
postfix restriction. For example, if I create the list "mailmantest",
the following is added to the virtual-mailman file:

# STANZA START: mailmantest
# CREATED: Wed Aug 26 11:32:36 2009
mailmantest at domain.tld              mailmantest
mailmantest-admin at domain.tld        mailmantest-admin
mailmantest-bounces at domain.tld      mailmantest-bounces
mailmantest-confirm at domain.tld      mailmantest-confirm
mailmantest-join at domain.tld         mailmantest-join
mailmantest-leave at domain.tld        mailmantest-leave
mailmantest-owner at domain.tld        mailmantest-owner
mailmantest-request at domain.tld      mailmantest-request
mailmantest-subscribe at domain.tld    mailmantest-subscribe
mailmantest-unsubscribe at domain.tld  mailmantest-unsubscribe
# STANZA END: mailmantest

In my Postfix main.cf file I have:

smtpd_sender_restrictions =
     check_sender_access hash:/etc/postfix/lists_relay,
     reject

The /etc/postfix/lists_relay file is like this:

mailmantest at domain.tld OK
mailmantest-admin at domain.tld OK
mailmantest-bounces at domain.tld OK

And so on.

I'd like those entries in the /etc/postfix/lists_relay file to be
created automatically after running "newlist mailmantest".

Regards.

From dave at dpss.bz  Wed Aug 26 23:08:50 2009
From: dave at dpss.bz (Dave Bevis)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:08:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mass change the domain name of user email addresses
Message-ID: <36E7DA3C-6AD4-41BE-A9F7-640B433C7821@dpss.bz>

Is there a script out there or a mailman command that will let me  
change the domain part of all email addresses to a different domain  
in all lists? i.e. person1 at companyA.com changes to  
person1 at companyB.com, person2 at companyA.com changes to  
person2 at companyB.com, etc. in all lists and makes the change to all  
email addresses that have a domain of companyA.com

Thanks.

Dave Bevis

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 27 01:15:38 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:15:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM admin interface wide open
In-Reply-To: <4A944A35.9090904@ladb.unm.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1922009082616153805467d9b8648@msapiro>

Ulf Hofemeier wrote:
>
>I'm using MM 2.1.12 and am running into a problem that is rather nasty.
>In my case the MM admin interface is wide open, which means that I don't
>need a site admin pwd to access http://mydomain/mailman/admin/mylist. I
>can click on logout and it will take me to the logout page, but simply
>removing /logout from the URL will load the admin interface again.
>Deleting the cookie doesn't help, closing the browser doesn't help. Oh,
>yeah. The admin interface is accessible via Google as well.


Do you allow site admin cookies and do you have one?

Logout will remove the list admin cookie, but if you allow site admin
cookies and you have logged in with the site password, logout won't
remove that cookie.

This doesn't sound like that's the issue in your case however, and it
certainly isn't normal. Is this MM 2.1.12 installed from source or
from a vendor package? If a package, which one? Any patches?

Note that it is normal for the admin login page for a public list to be
indexed in google, but google's crawlers and people coming from google
shouldn't be able to get past the login page without the password.


>PS. if you email me, I can provide you with the URL to my MM installation.


If you send it to me, I'll check it out.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 27 01:33:56 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:33:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some questions about mailing list email
	addressesthat messages	come from
In-Reply-To: <1251272669.3029.20.camel@hugo.iguanait.com>
Message-ID: <PC19220090826163356085988f72dd3@msapiro>

anebi at iguanait.com wrote:
>
>we have installed mailman-2.1.9-4.el5 on Centos 5.
>
>What i notice is that when i subscribe or when i receive a message from
>the mailing list all messages are send from
>listname-bounce at myhostname.tld.
>
>Why this happen? Should it send messages using aliases defined
>in /etc/mailman/aliases?
>
>When i unsubscribe from the list, from filed is also
>listname-bounce at ....
>
>What i have done wrong?


You have done nothing wrong. The aliases defined in
/etc/mailman/aliases are only for delivery of mail to Mailman. They
have no involvement without outgoing mail.

Messages from Mailman are normally sent with envelope from and Sender:
equal to the LISTNAME-bounces addresses so that bounces are returned
to that address and can be processed automatically.

In your case, the list is anonymous so the From: header of outgoing
posts is set to the list posting address.

The information in the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/RoA9> may also be
relevant in your case.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ulf at ladb.unm.edu  Thu Aug 27 01:32:28 2009
From: ulf at ladb.unm.edu (Ulf Hofemeier)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:32:28 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM admin interface wide open
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009082616153805467d9b8648@msapiro>
References: <PC1922009082616153805467d9b8648@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5A3E8510-BA2F-40A6-A968-2CE0E82ED080@ladb.unm.edu>

Mark,

Logout won't remove the cookie if there is one, but I doubt there is.  
ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES is set to NO. I compiled MM 2.1.12 from the  
source.
Ulf
--
Ulf Hofemeier
Programmer / Analyst II
Latin American and Iberian Institute
ulf at ladb.unm.edu





On Aug 26, 2009, at 5:15 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Ulf Hofemeier wrote:
>>
>> I'm using MM 2.1.12 and am running into a problem that is rather  
>> nasty.
>> In my case the MM admin interface is wide open, which means that I  
>> don't
>> need a site admin pwd to access http://mydomain/mailman/admin/ 
>> mylist. I
>> can click on logout and it will take me to the logout page, but  
>> simply
>> removing /logout from the URL will load the admin interface again.
>> Deleting the cookie doesn't help, closing the browser doesn't help.  
>> Oh,
>> yeah. The admin interface is accessible via Google as well.
>
>
> Do you allow site admin cookies and do you have one?
>
> Logout will remove the list admin cookie, but if you allow site admin
> cookies and you have logged in with the site password, logout won't
> remove that cookie.
>
> This doesn't sound like that's the issue in your case however, and it
> certainly isn't normal. Is this MM 2.1.12 installed from source or
> from a vendor package? If a package, which one? Any patches?
>
> Note that it is normal for the admin login page for a public list to  
> be
> indexed in google, but google's crawlers and people coming from google
> shouldn't be able to get past the login page without the password.
>
>
>> PS. if you email me, I can provide you with the URL to my MM  
>> installation.
>
>
> If you send it to me, I'll check it out.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 27 02:33:09 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:33:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM admin interface wide open
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009082616153805467d9b8648@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC192200908261733090265168fd812@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Ulf Hofemeier wrote:
>>
>>PS. if you email me, I can provide you with the URL to my MM installation.
>
>
>If you send it to me, I'll check it out.


After a little off list back and forth, Ulf wrote:

>I had no site admin password set. Setting one with mmsitepass did the  
>trick. Thank you for pointing this out. Maybe it would be worthwhile  
>to add a line of code that checks whether a site admin pass has been  
>set for future versions? I tried to find a solution for my problem on  
>your mailman-user list, but couldn't. I have a hard time believing  
>that I'm the only one who has run into this problem though.
>
>Thank you for looking into it. Great support and I appreciate it :-)


Not having ever set a site password should not cause this problem. If
the password was never set, there would be no data/adm.pw file at all
and authenticating the site password should fail.

I think this issue could only occur if at some point someone actually
set a null site password.

Still, it's worth fixing it so that a null password doesn't work. I
can't see that anyone would actually want passwordless access to the
admin interface except maybe in the case of a server that was not
exposed on the internet al all, but probably not even then.

Does anyone need to have null passwords work in Mailman?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 27 03:19:01 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:19:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatically add virtual-mailman aliases to
	aPostfix sender access list
In-Reply-To: <e54888080908260519w44846a51ha029fca089407d9e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC192200908261819010734168fd9df@msapiro>

Yeray Guti?rrez Cedr?s wrote:

>I'm new to Mailman and I wonder if there is a proper way to
>automatically add the addresses created in the virtual-mailman file
>(when a new list is created) to a list for the check_sender_access
>postfix restriction. For example, if I create the list "mailmantest",
>the following is added to the virtual-mailman file:
>
># STANZA START: mailmantest
># CREATED: Wed Aug 26 11:32:36 2009
>mailmantest at domain.tld              mailmantest
>mailmantest-admin at domain.tld        mailmantest-admin
>mailmantest-bounces at domain.tld      mailmantest-bounces
>mailmantest-confirm at domain.tld      mailmantest-confirm
>mailmantest-join at domain.tld         mailmantest-join
>mailmantest-leave at domain.tld        mailmantest-leave
>mailmantest-owner at domain.tld        mailmantest-owner
>mailmantest-request at domain.tld      mailmantest-request
>mailmantest-subscribe at domain.tld    mailmantest-subscribe
>mailmantest-unsubscribe at domain.tld  mailmantest-unsubscribe
># STANZA END: mailmantest
>
>In my Postfix main.cf file I have:
>
>smtpd_sender_restrictions =
>     check_sender_access hash:/etc/postfix/lists_relay,
>     reject
>
>The /etc/postfix/lists_relay file is like this:
>
>mailmantest at domain.tld OK
>mailmantest-admin at domain.tld OK
>mailmantest-bounces at domain.tld OK
>
>And so on.
>
>I'd like those entries in the /etc/postfix/lists_relay file to be
>created automatically after running "newlist mailmantest".


Assuming that your lists_relay is intended to whitelist outgoing
messages from Mailman, the -bounces entry should be sufficient as all
messages from Mailman are sent with envelope from SOMELIST-bounces or
mailman-bounces except in one rare circumstance, notices of
mailman-bounces bounces are sent with envelope from mailman-loop.

I see two ways you can deal with this automatically.

If you are comfortable with Python, you could modify
Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py to write a third files containing the
information you want and call postmap to update the corresponding hash
database.

Perhaps a simpler solution is to set POSTFIX_MAP_CMD which defaults to
'/usr/sbin/postmap' to point instead to a shell script which does

/usr/bin/postmap $1

followed by a sed or whatever to create the file you want by editing
the virtual-mailman file and finally by another postmap to update the
hash db.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 27 04:13:53 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:13:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mass change the domain name of user email
	addresses
In-Reply-To: <36E7DA3C-6AD4-41BE-A9F7-640B433C7821@dpss.bz>
Message-ID: <PC192200908261913530796cd91cf11@msapiro>

Dave Bevis wrote:

>Is there a script out there or a mailman command that will let me  
>change the domain part of all email addresses to a different domain  
>in all lists? i.e. person1 at companyA.com changes to  
>person1 at companyB.com, person2 at companyA.com changes to  
>person2 at companyB.com, etc. in all lists and makes the change to all  
>email addresses that have a domain of companyA.com


There is a withlist script at
<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/change_member_address.py> (mirrored at
<http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~msapiro/scripts/change_member_address.py>)
that will do exactly this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Thu Aug 27 12:59:43 2009
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:59:43 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM admin interface wide open
In-Reply-To: <PC192200908261733090265168fd812@msapiro>
References: <PC1922009082616153805467d9b8648@msapiro>
	<PC192200908261733090265168fd812@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20090827105943.GG18181@mail.incertum.net>

* Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> >Ulf Hofemeier wrote:
> >>
> >>PS. if you email me, I can provide you with the URL to my MM installation.
> >
> >
> >If you send it to me, I'll check it out.
> 
> 
> After a little off list back and forth, Ulf wrote:
> 
> >I had no site admin password set. Setting one with mmsitepass did the  
> >trick. Thank you for pointing this out. Maybe it would be worthwhile  
> >to add a line of code that checks whether a site admin pass has been  
> >set for future versions? I tried to find a solution for my problem on  
> >your mailman-user list, but couldn't. I have a hard time believing  
> >that I'm the only one who has run into this problem though.
> >
> >Thank you for looking into it. Great support and I appreciate it :-)
> 
> 
> Not having ever set a site password should not cause this problem. If
> the password was never set, there would be no data/adm.pw file at all
> and authenticating the site password should fail.
> 
> I think this issue could only occur if at some point someone actually
> set a null site password.
> 
> Still, it's worth fixing it so that a null password doesn't work. I
> can't see that anyone would actually want passwordless access to the
> admin interface except maybe in the case of a server that was not
> exposed on the internet al all, but probably not even then.
> 
> Does anyone need to have null passwords work in Mailman?

I could only think of a corporate server, where the directories
containing Mailman's admin interface are protected by e.g.
Kerberos/LDAP (i.e. Active Directory).


Cheers
Stefan

From CNulk at scu.edu  Thu Aug 27 16:30:25 2009
From: CNulk at scu.edu (C Nulk)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 07:30:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM admin interface wide open
In-Reply-To: <20090827105943.GG18181@mail.incertum.net>
References: <PC1922009082616153805467d9b8648@msapiro>	<PC192200908261733090265168fd812@msapiro>
	<20090827105943.GG18181@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <4A969881.60707@scu.edu>

I cannot think of any reason for having a null admin password.  It is
possible for corporate entities as Stefan mentions but even then
probably very rare.  If you are going to add the code to check for a
null admin password, why not add an additional check to see if a new
config option is set to yes - ALLOW_NULL_ADMIN_PWD.  The default would
be NO and for the corporate/groups/individuals that wish a null
password, they can set it to YES in mm_cfg.py.

Just a thought,
Chris

Stefan F?rster wrote:
> * Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
>   
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Ulf Hofemeier wrote:
>>>       
>>>> PS. if you email me, I can provide you with the URL to my MM installation.
>>>>         
>>> If you send it to me, I'll check it out.
>>>       
>> After a little off list back and forth, Ulf wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> I had no site admin password set. Setting one with mmsitepass did the  
>>> trick. Thank you for pointing this out. Maybe it would be worthwhile  
>>> to add a line of code that checks whether a site admin pass has been  
>>> set for future versions? I tried to find a solution for my problem on  
>>> your mailman-user list, but couldn't. I have a hard time believing  
>>> that I'm the only one who has run into this problem though.
>>>
>>> Thank you for looking into it. Great support and I appreciate it :-)
>>>       
>> Not having ever set a site password should not cause this problem. If
>> the password was never set, there would be no data/adm.pw file at all
>> and authenticating the site password should fail.
>>
>> I think this issue could only occur if at some point someone actually
>> set a null site password.
>>
>> Still, it's worth fixing it so that a null password doesn't work. I
>> can't see that anyone would actually want passwordless access to the
>> admin interface except maybe in the case of a server that was not
>> exposed on the internet al all, but probably not even then.
>>
>> Does anyone need to have null passwords work in Mailman?
>>     
>
> I could only think of a corporate server, where the directories
> containing Mailman's admin interface are protected by e.g.
> Kerberos/LDAP (i.e. Active Directory).
>
>
> Cheers
> Stefan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cnulk%40scu.edu
>
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>   

From barry at python.org  Thu Aug 27 17:12:40 2009
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:12:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM admin interface wide open
In-Reply-To: <4A969881.60707@scu.edu>
References: <PC1922009082616153805467d9b8648@msapiro>	<PC192200908261733090265168fd812@msapiro>
	<20090827105943.GG18181@mail.incertum.net> <4A969881.60707@scu.edu>
Message-ID: <65BC1002-A6E8-4892-BA23-C13632218218@python.org>

On Aug 27, 2009, at 10:30 AM, C Nulk wrote:

> I cannot think of any reason for having a null admin password.

For Mailman 2.x I completely agree.  The use cases where this would be  
needed will be solved in other ways in Mailman 3.

-Barry

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From barry at list.org  Thu Aug 27 18:05:00 2009
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:05:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sysadmin/Mailman gig
Message-ID: <7EA5CDD4-91FB-4E86-A5B0-EAB0AB564901@list.org>

A friend of mine forwarded this sysadmin/mailman gig announcement to  
me.  Apparently the Mailman component is fairly high priority.  If  
you're interested, please respond directly to them -- I have no  
connection to or vested interest in Dreamfish.

http://network.dreamfish.com/wiki/Lead_Systems_Administrator_-_Dreamfish_Service_Job

-Barry

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From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 28 18:08:46 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:08:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Very busy list says send_digests failed,
	Too many links (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908280909250.48642@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
Message-ID: <PC1922009082809084607509ef5ea9c@msapiro>

Ivan Fetch wrote:
>
>    I'm sorry to email you directly, but I believe the below email (sent 
>twice) is not making it to the mailman-users list. I just checked archives 
>and don't see the email there either. My re-post from yesterday, seems to 
>have been accepted by the python.org mail server:
>
>Aug 27 16:20:23 eros postfix/qmgr[13538]: [ID 197553 mail.info] 169B2C02B: 
>from=<ifetch at du.edu>, size=1764, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>Aug 27 16:20:29 eros postfix/smtp[17110]: [ID 197553 mail.info] 169B2C02B: 
>to=<mailman-users at python.org>, relay=mail.python.org[82.94.164.166]:25, 
>delay=6.7, delays=0.01/0/5.9/0.73, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok: 
>queued as A1B94E309)
>Aug 27 16:20:29 eros postfix/qmgr[13538]: [ID 197553 mail.info] 169B2C02B: 
>removed


I suspect you are moderated as a recent subscriber and the moderator
just hasn't approved the latest posts. This happens.


>    Have you seen the below - on the mailman-users list, or in a queue 
>somewhere?


No, I haven't seen it, but I can't see the messages waiting moderation.
But, see below for my response.


>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:19:58 -0600 (MDT)
>From: Ivan Fetch <ifetch at du.edu>
>To: mailman-users at python.org
>Subject: Very busy list says send_digests failed, Too many links
>
>Apologies - this is a re-post, but I didn't see it hit the list in about 19 
>hours.
>
>
>Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:14:00 -0600 (MDT)
>From: Ivan Fetch <ifetch at du.edu>
>To: mailman-users at python.org
>Subject: Very busy list says send_digests failed, Too many links
>
>Hello,
>
>
>    We had a list get around 30,000 messages today. Eventually, we noticed 
>emails to this list were really piling up in Mailman's "in" queue, and the 
>error log showed a lot of:
>
>Aug 26 13:44:22 2009 (9443) send_digests() failed: [Errno 31] Too many links: 
>'/mail/mailman/mailman/archives/private/list-name/attachments/20090826/9a8f3979'
>
>    I happened to get around this by setting digestable to know, but would like 
>to know how I should perhaps clean up after this. Most of the emails to this 
>list, unfortunately were the result of a run-away program sending emails. Will 
>the next digest cron job die on this many emails and attachments?


Yes, the next cron/senddigests will probably choke too unless you set
the list's digest_send_periodic to No.

The problem is in the list's lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox file.
Apparently you have a very large number of messages with attachments
and with the same Message-ID:. Scrubber is calculating the directory
in which to store attachments for this message as
/mail/mailman/mailman/archives/private/list-name/attachments/20090826/9a8f3979
(the 9a8f3979 is a hash of the Message-ID:). This directory has so
many files in it that the OS will not allow any more to be created -
thus, the error 31.

You need to either edit the lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox file and delete
all the 'bad' messages, or if you're not concerned about the digest,
just remove it. You also should remove the
archives/private/list-name/attachments/20090826/9a8f3979 directory.
That should be all the cleanup you need to do other that ensuring that
the run-away program is fixed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From anebi at iguanait.com  Thu Aug 27 10:48:29 2009
From: anebi at iguanait.com (anebi at iguanait.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:48:29 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Command line tool to disable delivering for a group
	of members
Message-ID: <1251362909.3672.4.camel@hugo.iguanait.com>

Hi,

i have a big part of users that i want to disable delivering for with
different reasons.

Is there a command line tool that i can use to do this?

I need command line tool, because i can automated it, but from screen i
need to do checking one by one.

Thanks in advanced!


From anebi at iguanait.com  Thu Aug 27 10:49:30 2009
From: anebi at iguanait.com (anebi at iguanait.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:49:30 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some questions about mailing list
	email	addressesthat messages	come from
In-Reply-To: <PC19220090826163356085988f72dd3@msapiro>
References: <PC19220090826163356085988f72dd3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1251362970.3672.6.camel@hugo.iguanait.com>

Hi, Mark.

First i want to thank you for good explanation.

Now i got it how mailman proceed with all these things that it does.

Thanks again!

On Wed, 2009-08-26 at 16:33 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> anebi at iguanait.com wrote:
> >
> >we have installed mailman-2.1.9-4.el5 on Centos 5.
> >
> >What i notice is that when i subscribe or when i receive a message from
> >the mailing list all messages are send from
> >listname-bounce at myhostname.tld.
> >
> >Why this happen? Should it send messages using aliases defined
> >in /etc/mailman/aliases?
> >
> >When i unsubscribe from the list, from filed is also
> >listname-bounce at ....
> >
> >What i have done wrong?
> 
> 
> You have done nothing wrong. The aliases defined in
> /etc/mailman/aliases are only for delivery of mail to Mailman. They
> have no involvement without outgoing mail.
> 
> Messages from Mailman are normally sent with envelope from and Sender:
> equal to the LISTNAME-bounces addresses so that bounces are returned
> to that address and can be processed automatically.
> 
> In your case, the list is anonymous so the From: header of outgoing
> posts is set to the list posting address.
> 
> The information in the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/RoA9> may also be
> relevant in your case.
> 


From ifetch at du.edu  Thu Aug 27 05:14:00 2009
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:14:00 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Very busy list says send_digests failed,
	Too many links
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908262107220.42692@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

Hello,


    We had a list get around 30,000 messages today. Eventually, we noticed 
emails to this list were really piling up in Mailman's "in" queue, and the 
error log showed a lot of:

Aug 26 13:44:22 2009 (9443) send_digests() failed: [Errno 31] Too many 
links: 
'/mail/mailman/mailman/archives/private/list-name/attachments/20090826/9a8f3979'

    I happened to get around this by setting digestable to know, but would 
like to know how I should perhaps clean up after this. Most of the emails 
to this list, unfortunately were the result of a run-away program sending 
emails. Will the next digest cron job die on this many emails and 
attachments?


Thanks a lot,

Ivan.


From ulf at ladb.unm.edu  Thu Aug 27 02:26:07 2009
From: ulf at ladb.unm.edu (Ulf Hofemeier)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:26:07 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM admin interface wide open
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009082616153805467d9b8648@msapiro>
References: <PC1922009082616153805467d9b8648@msapiro>
Message-ID: <624D9DD2-BFE3-4BAD-AB94-909A62EE41A5@ladb.unm.edu>

Folks,

It turns out the issue was that my mailman site admin password was  
null, meaning I had no site admin password set. Using bin/mmsitepass  
did solve the problem for me. Now, logout works and opening mailman/ 
admin/mylist does require a password to login.

@Mark, thank you for pointing this out for me!
Ulf
--
Ulf Hofemeier
Programmer / Analyst II
Latin American and Iberian Institute
ulf at ladb.unm.edu





On Aug 26, 2009, at 5:15 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Ulf Hofemeier wrote:
>>
>> I'm using MM 2.1.12 and am running into a problem that is rather  
>> nasty.
>> In my case the MM admin interface is wide open, which means that I  
>> don't
>> need a site admin pwd to access http://mydomain/mailman/admin/ 
>> mylist. I
>> can click on logout and it will take me to the logout page, but  
>> simply
>> removing /logout from the URL will load the admin interface again.
>> Deleting the cookie doesn't help, closing the browser doesn't help.  
>> Oh,
>> yeah. The admin interface is accessible via Google as well.
>
>
> Do you allow site admin cookies and do you have one?
>
> Logout will remove the list admin cookie, but if you allow site admin
> cookies and you have logged in with the site password, logout won't
> remove that cookie.
>
> This doesn't sound like that's the issue in your case however, and it
> certainly isn't normal. Is this MM 2.1.12 installed from source or
> from a vendor package? If a package, which one? Any patches?
>
> Note that it is normal for the admin login page for a public list to  
> be
> indexed in google, but google's crawlers and people coming from google
> shouldn't be able to get past the login page without the password.
>
>
>> PS. if you email me, I can provide you with the URL to my MM  
>> installation.
>
>
> If you send it to me, I'll check it out.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From ulf at ladb.unm.edu  Thu Aug 27 03:13:28 2009
From: ulf at ladb.unm.edu (Ulf Hofemeier)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:13:28 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM admin interface wide open
In-Reply-To: <PC192200908261733090265168fd812@msapiro>
References: <PC192200908261733090265168fd812@msapiro>
Message-ID: <A065114B-0C43-4EC7-98BB-F89BEFB70294@ladb.unm.edu>

The only scenario I can see are large organizations/corporations with  
huge IT department who have to administer mailing lists with thousands  
of subscribers. In that case it might make more sense to protect the  
admin interface through a dedicated virtual host + packet filter +  
htaccess set up, rather than having every 'admin' to type in the site  
admin password for once, or once the site admin cookie has expired. It  
would speed things up to have the interface accessible through one  
link without any barriers. I don't know if this is an applicable  
scenario or not, but IT departments with large organizations are  
probably capable to make mailman work for them.
Ulf
--
Ulf Hofemeier
Programmer / Analyst II
Latin American and Iberian Institute
ulf at ladb.unm.edu



>
> Still, it's worth fixing it so that a null password doesn't work. I
> can't see that anyone would actually want passwordless access to the
> admin interface except maybe in the case of a server that was not
> exposed on the internet al all, but probably not even then.
>
> Does anyone need to have null passwords work in Mailman?
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From ycedres at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 11:23:48 2009
From: ycedres at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Yeray_Guti=E9rrez_Cedr=E9s?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:23:48 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatically add virtual-mailman aliases to
	aPostfix sender access list
In-Reply-To: <PC192200908261819010734168fd9df@msapiro>
References: <e54888080908260519w44846a51ha029fca089407d9e@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC192200908261819010734168fd9df@msapiro>
Message-ID: <e54888080908270223m789f4a7dy7642465e153581a8@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 2:19 AM, Mark Sapiro<mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Yeray Guti?rrez Cedr?s wrote:
>
>>I'm new to Mailman and I wonder if there is a proper way to
>>automatically add the addresses created in the virtual-mailman file
>>(when a new list is created) to a list for the check_sender_access
>>postfix restriction. For example, if I create the list "mailmantest",
>>the following is added to the virtual-mailman file:
>>
>># STANZA START: mailmantest
>># CREATED: Wed Aug 26 11:32:36 2009
>>mailmantest at domain.tld ? ? ? ? ? ? ?mailmantest
>>mailmantest-admin at domain.tld ? ? ? ?mailmantest-admin
>>mailmantest-bounces at domain.tld ? ? ?mailmantest-bounces
>>mailmantest-confirm at domain.tld ? ? ?mailmantest-confirm
>>mailmantest-join at domain.tld ? ? ? ? mailmantest-join
>>mailmantest-leave at domain.tld ? ? ? ?mailmantest-leave
>>mailmantest-owner at domain.tld ? ? ? ?mailmantest-owner
>>mailmantest-request at domain.tld ? ? ?mailmantest-request
>>mailmantest-subscribe at domain.tld ? ?mailmantest-subscribe
>>mailmantest-unsubscribe at domain.tld ?mailmantest-unsubscribe
>># STANZA END: mailmantest
>>
>>In my Postfix main.cf file I have:
>>
>>smtpd_sender_restrictions =
>> ? ? check_sender_access hash:/etc/postfix/lists_relay,
>> ? ? reject
>>
>>The /etc/postfix/lists_relay file is like this:
>>
>>mailmantest at domain.tld OK
>>mailmantest-admin at domain.tld OK
>>mailmantest-bounces at domain.tld OK
>>
>>And so on.
>>
>>I'd like those entries in the /etc/postfix/lists_relay file to be
>>created automatically after running "newlist mailmantest".
>
>
> Assuming that your lists_relay is intended to whitelist outgoing
> messages from Mailman, the -bounces entry should be sufficient as all
> messages from Mailman are sent with envelope from SOMELIST-bounces or
> mailman-bounces except in one rare circumstance, notices of
> mailman-bounces bounces are sent with envelope from mailman-loop.
>



Well, we have whitelists for all the outbound mail, so does messages
from Mailman. Anything not in a check_sender_access hash will be
rejected. That's why I needed this.

> I see two ways you can deal with this automatically.
>
> If you are comfortable with Python, you could modify
> Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py to write a third files containing the
> information you want and call postmap to update the corresponding hash
> database.
>
> Perhaps a simpler solution is to set POSTFIX_MAP_CMD which defaults to
> '/usr/sbin/postmap' to point instead to a shell script which does
>
> /usr/bin/postmap $1
>
> followed by a sed or whatever to create the file you want by editing
> the virtual-mailman file and finally by another postmap to update the
> hash db.
>

Thank you very much for your tips!
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> ? ? ? ?The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California ? ?better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 28 19:06:36 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:06:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Command line tool to disable delivering for a
	groupof members
In-Reply-To: <1251362909.3672.4.camel@hugo.iguanait.com>
Message-ID: <PC19220090828100636040657058f3a@msapiro>

anebi at iguanait.com wrote:
>
>i have a big part of users that i want to disable delivering for with
>different reasons.
>
>Is there a command line tool that i can use to do this?


See <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/set_nomail.py> (mirrored at
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/set_nomail.py>).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 28 19:19:22 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:19:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Very busy list says send_digests failed,
	Too many links
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908262107220.42692@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
Message-ID: <PC1922009082810192202505266e6d0@msapiro>

Ivan Fetch wrote:
>
>    We had a list get around 30,000 messages today. Eventually, we noticed 
>emails to this list were really piling up in Mailman's "in" queue, and the 
>error log showed a lot of:
>
>Aug 26 13:44:22 2009 (9443) send_digests() failed: [Errno 31] Too many 
>links: 
>'/mail/mailman/mailman/archives/private/list-name/attachments/20090826/9a8f3979'
>
>    I happened to get around this by setting digestable to know, but would 
>like to know how I should perhaps clean up after this. Most of the emails 
>to this list, unfortunately were the result of a run-away program sending 
>emails. Will the next digest cron job die on this many emails and 
>attachments?


For the archive: this is answered at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-August/066960.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From anebi at iguanait.com  Sat Aug 29 10:14:07 2009
From: anebi at iguanait.com (anebi at iguanait.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:14:07 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Command line tool to disable delivering for
	a	groupof members
In-Reply-To: <PC19220090828100636040657058f3a@msapiro>
References: <PC19220090828100636040657058f3a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1251533647.10556.0.camel@hugo.iguanait.com>

Thanks for second time Mark! :)

That's what i was looking for.

On Fri, 2009-08-28 at 10:06 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> anebi at iguanait.com wrote:
> >
> >i have a big part of users that i want to disable delivering for with
> >different reasons.
> >
> >Is there a command line tool that i can use to do this?
> 
> 
> See <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/set_nomail.py> (mirrored at
> <http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/set_nomail.py>).
> 


From thomas at ifi.uio.no  Sun Aug 30 01:05:49 2009
From: thomas at ifi.uio.no (Thomas Gramstad)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 01:05:49 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe, not disable
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64-L.0908300058520.1947@anakin.ifi.uio.no>

How can I make Mailman unsubscribe bouncing addresses instead of
disabling them? I'm fine with the default number of days,
number of delivery attempts etc., I just want the final action by
Mailman to be unsubscribe instead of disable.

(This ought to be simple, but I've looked through the Mailman
admin web pages several times, and also tried websearches,
without being able to find it.)

Also, is there a way to unsubscribe all the disabled addresses
on a given list with one single command?

Thomas Gramstad

From jeffg at turners.com  Sun Aug 30 01:28:45 2009
From: jeffg at turners.com (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 16:28:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe, not disable
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64-L.0908300058520.1947@anakin.ifi.uio.no>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64-L.0908300058520.1947@anakin.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <28d92eeb716b369a76283902ebfbb56f@turners.com>


On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 16:05:49 -0700, "Thomas Gramstad" <thomas at ifi.uio.no>
wrote:
> How can I make Mailman unsubscribe bouncing addresses instead of
> disabling them? I'm fine with the default number of days,
> number of delivery attempts etc., I just want the final action by
> Mailman to be unsubscribe instead of disable.
> 
> (This ought to be simple, but I've looked through the Mailman
> admin web pages several times, and also tried websearches,
> without being able to find it.)

Isn't that what bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings setting does?  After this
many times of sending a you are disabled e-mail, the user is unsubscribed.

> 
> Also, is there a way to unsubscribe all the disabled addresses
> on a given list with one single command?

Not sure about that one.  But, I would imagine once you change the setting
above, it will remove the disabled addresses.

Jeff

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Aug 30 02:10:15 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:10:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe, not disable
In-Reply-To: <28d92eeb716b369a76283902ebfbb56f@turners.com>
Message-ID: <PC19220090829171015069299f6bc43@msapiro>

Jeff Grossman wrote:
>
>On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 16:05:49 -0700, "Thomas Gramstad" <thomas at ifi.uio.no>
>wrote:
>> How can I make Mailman unsubscribe bouncing addresses instead of
>> disabling them? I'm fine with the default number of days,
>> number of delivery attempts etc., I just want the final action by
>> Mailman to be unsubscribe instead of disable.
>> 
>> (This ought to be simple, but I've looked through the Mailman
>> admin web pages several times, and also tried websearches,
>> without being able to find it.)
>
>Isn't that what bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings setting does?  After this
>many times of sending a you are disabled e-mail, the user is unsubscribed.


Exactly!


>> Also, is there a way to unsubscribe all the disabled addresses
>> on a given list with one single command?
>
>Not sure about that one.  But, I would imagine once you change the setting
>above, it will remove the disabled addresses.


It won't. Once a member's delivery is disabled by bounce, the number of
remaining warnings and time of last warning are recorded in the
member's bounce info, and cron/disabled will check the interval, send
a notice, decrement the number remaining and do the unsubscribe when
the number reaches zero. Changing the list's
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings after a member's delivery is disabled
has no effect on this.

But the command to immediately unsubscribe all members with delivery
disabled by bounce is

bin/list_members --nomail=bybounce LISTNAME | bin/remove_members \
  --file=- LISTNAME

you might also want to specify --nouserack and/or --noadminack on the
remove_members command. To do this for all lists, consider

#!/bin/sh
for list in `bin/list_lists --bare` ; do
   bin/list_members --nomail=bybounce $list | bin/remove_members \
    --file=- $list
done

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From thomas at ifi.uio.no  Sun Aug 30 02:23:39 2009
From: thomas at ifi.uio.no (Thomas Gramstad)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 02:23:39 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe, not disable
In-Reply-To: <PC19220090829171015069299f6bc43@msapiro>
References: <PC19220090829171015069299f6bc43@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64-L.0908300213150.1947@anakin.ifi.uio.no>

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Jeff Grossman wrote:
> >
> >On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 16:05:49 -0700, "Thomas Gramstad" <thomas at ifi.uio.no>
> >wrote:
> >> How can I make Mailman unsubscribe bouncing addresses instead of
> >> disabling them? I'm fine with the default number of days,
> >> number of delivery attempts etc., I just want the final action by
> >> Mailman to be unsubscribe instead of disable.
> >> 
> >> (This ought to be simple, but I've looked through the Mailman
> >> admin web pages several times, and also tried websearches,
> >> without being able to find it.)
> >
> >Isn't that what bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings setting does?  After this
> >many times of sending a you are disabled e-mail, the user is unsubscribed.
> 
> 
> Exactly!
> 
> 
> >> Also, is there a way to unsubscribe all the disabled addresses
> >> on a given list with one single command?
> >
> >Not sure about that one.  But, I would imagine once you change the setting
> >above, it will remove the disabled addresses.
> 
> 
> It won't. Once a member's delivery is disabled by bounce, the number of
> remaining warnings and time of last warning are recorded in the
> member's bounce info, and cron/disabled will check the interval, send
> a notice, decrement the number remaining and do the unsubscribe when
> the number reaches zero. Changing the list's
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings after a member's delivery is disabled
> has no effect on this.
> 
> But the command to immediately unsubscribe all members with delivery
> disabled by bounce is
> 
> bin/list_members --nomail=bybounce LISTNAME | bin/remove_members \
>   --file=- LISTNAME
> 
> you might also want to specify --nouserack and/or --noadminack on the
> remove_members command. To do this for all lists, consider
> 
> #!/bin/sh
> for list in `bin/list_lists --bare` ; do
>    bin/list_members --nomail=bybounce $list | bin/remove_members \
>     --file=- $list
> done

Thanks!

Just to make sure I got the first part of the answer right:
"Disable" is not the end-station -- delivery attempts or probing
of the subscriber address will continue the defined number of
times, and if still unsuccessful, the address will finally be
unsubscribed. So the disabling will never lead to a list with a
lot of dead addresses on it. They will be unsubscribed eventually
(if they don't start working again). If that is the case, I need
not worry about unsubscribing them, and can liberally allow the
process to take its time. (Maybe speed the process up a little
for big lists.)

Thomas Gramstad

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Aug 30 02:27:26 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:27:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe, not disable
In-Reply-To: <PC19220090829171015069299f6bc43@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC19220090829172726074299f6bc80@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Jeff Grossman wrote:
>>
>>Isn't that what bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings setting does?  After this
>>many times of sending a you are disabled e-mail, the user is unsubscribed.
>
>
>Exactly!


And in case it isn't clear, setting bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings to
zero for a list will cause an immediate unsubscribe when the bounce
threshold is reached.

But, note that there is a bug in Mailman 2.1.11, 2.1.12rc1 and
2.1.12rc2 but not in 2.1.12 and not in 2.1.10 and prior that causes
bounce processing to fail when bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 0.
The attached Bouncer.patch.txt will fix that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Aug 30 02:57:29 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:57:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe, not disable
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64-L.0908300213150.1947@anakin.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <PC192200908291757290924108c6579@msapiro>

Thomas Gramstad wrote:
>
>Just to make sure I got the first part of the answer right:
>"Disable" is not the end-station -- delivery attempts or probing
>of the subscriber address will continue the defined number of
>times, and if still unsuccessful, the address will finally be
>unsubscribed. So the disabling will never lead to a list with a
>lot of dead addresses on it. They will be unsubscribed eventually
>(if they don't start working again). If that is the case, I need
>not worry about unsubscribing them, and can liberally allow the
>process to take its time. (Maybe speed the process up a little
>for big lists.)


That's more or less correct. If bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings is > 0
and cron/disabled is being run by cron, the user will be sent a total
of bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings, the first immediately and then at
intervals of bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval days. If the
user actually receives one of the warnings, she can either 'reply' or
follow a link in the message to re-enable delivery. Otherwise,
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval days after the last warning,
the user will be removed from the list.

So yes, as long as Mailman's cron jobs are running, users whose
delivery is disabled by bounce will either re-enable their own
delivery or they will be automatically removed in time.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ifetch at du.edu  Sat Aug 29 01:43:27 2009
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:43:27 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Very busy list says send_digests failed,
	Too many links (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009082809084607509ef5ea9c@msapiro>
References: <PC1922009082809084607509ef5ea9c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908281741400.48642@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

HI Mark,

    Thank you for this. We will end up deleting, since the list ownere do 
not care about digests.

    I didn't realize mailman-users was initially moderating (I never got a 
"held for moderation" reply) - it's been a while - makes sense, though., 
Thank you for clearing that up.



Ivan.


---
Ivan Fetch
University of Denver
Computer Operations, University Technology Services
303-871-3092

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Ivan Fetch wrote:
>>
>>    I'm sorry to email you directly, but I believe the below email (sent
>> twice) is not making it to the mailman-users list. I just checked archives
>> and don't see the email there either. My re-post from yesterday, seems to
>> have been accepted by the python.org mail server:
>>
>> Aug 27 16:20:23 eros postfix/qmgr[13538]: [ID 197553 mail.info] 169B2C02B:
>> from=<ifetch at du.edu>, size=1764, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>> Aug 27 16:20:29 eros postfix/smtp[17110]: [ID 197553 mail.info] 169B2C02B:
>> to=<mailman-users at python.org>, relay=mail.python.org[82.94.164.166]:25,
>> delay=6.7, delays=0.01/0/5.9/0.73, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok:
>> queued as A1B94E309)
>> Aug 27 16:20:29 eros postfix/qmgr[13538]: [ID 197553 mail.info] 169B2C02B:
>> removed
>
>
> I suspect you are moderated as a recent subscriber and the moderator
> just hasn't approved the latest posts. This happens.
>
>
>>    Have you seen the below - on the mailman-users list, or in a queue
>> somewhere?
>
>
> No, I haven't seen it, but I can't see the messages waiting moderation.
> But, see below for my response.
>
>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:19:58 -0600 (MDT)
>> From: Ivan Fetch <ifetch at du.edu>
>> To: mailman-users at python.org
>> Subject: Very busy list says send_digests failed, Too many links
>>
>> Apologies - this is a re-post, but I didn't see it hit the list in about 19
>> hours.
>>
>>
>> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:14:00 -0600 (MDT)
>> From: Ivan Fetch <ifetch at du.edu>
>> To: mailman-users at python.org
>> Subject: Very busy list says send_digests failed, Too many links
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>>    We had a list get around 30,000 messages today. Eventually, we noticed
>> emails to this list were really piling up in Mailman's "in" queue, and the
>> error log showed a lot of:
>>
>> Aug 26 13:44:22 2009 (9443) send_digests() failed: [Errno 31] Too many links:
>> '/mail/mailman/mailman/archives/private/list-name/attachments/20090826/9a8f3979'
>>
>>    I happened to get around this by setting digestable to know, but would like
>> to know how I should perhaps clean up after this. Most of the emails to this
>> list, unfortunately were the result of a run-away program sending emails. Will
>> the next digest cron job die on this many emails and attachments?
>
>
> Yes, the next cron/senddigests will probably choke too unless you set
> the list's digest_send_periodic to No.
>
> The problem is in the list's lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox file.
> Apparently you have a very large number of messages with attachments
> and with the same Message-ID:. Scrubber is calculating the directory
> in which to store attachments for this message as
> /mail/mailman/mailman/archives/private/list-name/attachments/20090826/9a8f3979
> (the 9a8f3979 is a hash of the Message-ID:). This directory has so
> many files in it that the OS will not allow any more to be created -
> thus, the error 31.
>
> You need to either edit the lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox file and delete
> all the 'bad' messages, or if you're not concerned about the digest,
> just remove it. You also should remove the
> archives/private/list-name/attachments/20090826/9a8f3979 directory.
> That should be all the cleanup you need to do other that ensuring that
> the run-away program is fixed.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From sadafco20010 at hotmail.com  Sun Aug 30 15:16:23 2009
From: sadafco20010 at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-6?Q?=D9=C8=CF=C7=E4=E4=E7_=CD=E5=CF=EA_?=)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:16:23 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] =?iso-8859-6?b?0c86IFJlOiAgVW5zdWJzY3JpYmUsIG5v?=
	=?iso-8859-6?q?t_disable?=
Message-ID: <SNT107-DS190D795DF18699A233EADB81F30@phx.gbl>



?? ??????? ?? ???? my Nokia phone
----- ??????? ???????  -----
??: Mark Sapiro
???????:  2009/08/30 3:27:26 ?
???: jeffg at turners.com; mailman-users at python.org
???????:  Re: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe, not disable

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Jeff Grossman wrote:
>>
>>Isn't that what bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings setting does?  After this
>>many times of sending a you are disabled e-mail, the user is unsubscribed.
>
>
>Exactly!


And in case it isn't clear, setting bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings to
zero for a list will cause an immediate unsubscribe when the bounce
threshold is reached.

But, note that there is a bug in Mailman 2.1.11, 2.1.12rc1 and
2.1.12rc2 but not in 2.1.12 and not in 2.1.10 and prior that causes
bounce processing to fail when bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 0.
The attached Bouncer.patch.txt will fix that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan