From dap1 at bellsouth.net Thu Jan 1 20:19:57 2009 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 14:19:57 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Distribution Sequence Confusion Message-ID: <495D175D.8030901@bellsouth.net> I am having a problem when mailman (2.1.9) tries to distribute mail. My main problem is that I do not understand what it is doing. I do not have a static IP and I have to relay outgoing mail through my ISP's server. Thus there was a lot of fudging of the configuration to make it work thanks to help from this list. When I try to send mail to a list it seems to be trying to mail it to listname-bounces at fakehost.mydomain.com. As result I get this this message from my ISP's server, not unexpectedly: 550 [PERMFAIL] destination not valid within DNS (in reply to RCPT TO command)) I don't understand why it is sending mail there instead of to the members of the list. What am I doing wrong? FWIW, this was a working system prior to upgrading my Mandriva OS to 2008.1 so lots of things were changed. I can't say what specifically so this is almost like starting from scratch even though I copied all the config files from the working system. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 258 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From dap1 at bellsouth.net Thu Jan 1 20:54:21 2009 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 14:54:21 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Relative Admin URLs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <495D1F6D.5010805@bellsouth.net> Hi Mark, Thanks. I added the patch but is there a config parameter I need to set to make it work? If not I cannot see any difference. Mark Sapiro wrote: > Dennis Putnam wrote: > >> I read some threads on producing relative URLs for the admin pages but >> it seemed like there is a bug/hole and I did not find any closure on it. >> Has that issue been resolved and if so how do I configure mailman to >> generate relative URLs rather than absolute? Thanks. >> > > > It's a bug. It has not been fixed to date, but it will be for the next > release. The following patch will fix it. > > === modified file 'Mailman/Utils.py' > --- Mailman/Utils.py 2008-12-05 23:08:41 +0000 > +++ Mailman/Utils.py 2008-12-30 00:23:28 +0000 > @@ -266,7 +266,7 @@ > fullpath = os.environ.get('SCRIPT_NAME', '') + \ > os.environ.get('PATH_INFO', '') > baseurl = urlparse.urlparse(web_page_url)[2] > - if not absolute and fullpath.endswith(baseurl): > + if not absolute and fullpath.startswith(baseurl): > # Use relative addressing > fullpath = fullpath[len(baseurl):] > i = fullpath.find('?') > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 258 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 1 23:56:45 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 14:56:45 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Relative Admin URLs In-Reply-To: <495D1F6D.5010805@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Dennis Putnam wrote: > >Thanks. I added the patch but is there a config parameter I need to set >to make it work? If not I cannot see any difference. What are you looking at? You have to look at the raw HTML (page source) delivered to the browser to see a difference. In practical terms, there's not going to be a difference in the HTTP interaction between the browser and the server. >Mark Sapiro wrote: >> >> It's a bug. It has not been fixed to date, but it will be for the next >> release. The following patch will fix it. >> >> === modified file 'Mailman/Utils.py' >> --- Mailman/Utils.py 2008-12-05 23:08:41 +0000 >> +++ Mailman/Utils.py 2008-12-30 00:23:28 +0000 >> @@ -266,7 +266,7 @@ >> fullpath =3D os.environ.get('SCRIPT_NAME', '') + \ >> os.environ.get('PATH_INFO', '') >> baseurl =3D urlparse.urlparse(web_page_url)[2] >> - if not absolute and fullpath.endswith(baseurl): >> + if not absolute and fullpath.startswith(baseurl): >> # Use relative addressing >> fullpath =3D fullpath[len(baseurl):] >> i =3D fullpath.find('?') >> >> -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 2 00:10:24 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 15:10:24 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Distribution Sequence Confusion In-Reply-To: <495D175D.8030901@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Dennis Putnam wrote: > >I am having a problem when mailman (2.1.9) tries to distribute mail. My >main problem is that I do not understand what it is doing. I do not have >a static IP and I have to relay outgoing mail through my ISP's server. >Thus there was a lot of fudging of the configuration to make it work >thanks to help from this list. When I try to send mail to a list it >seems to be trying to mail it to listname-bounces at fakehost.mydomain.com. Mailman is not sending mail to that address (SMTP RCPT TO). Mailman is sending mail with an envelope from that address (SMTP MAIL FROM). This is so bounced mail will be returned to that address for automated bounce processing. >As result I get this this message from my ISP's server, not unexpectedly: > >550 [PERMFAIL] destination not valid within DNS (in reply to RCPT TO >command)) We need more detail. What is the failing address?. are you saying that "fakehost" is the problem? If that is not in the list's host_name attribute, it is being added outside of Mailman. Is Mailman delivering directly to the ISPs MTA (SMTPHOST in mm_cfg.py) or is it delivering to a local MTA which is relaying to the ISP's MTA. It is possible that the ISP requires a valid domain in the MAIL FROM address and doesn't complain until the RCPT TO. If your Python is 2.4 or later, see the FAQ at for a way to enable low level SMTP debugging and see the actual SMTP messages in Mailman's error log. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From eperdue at comcast.net Thu Jan 1 21:00:43 2009 From: eperdue at comcast.net (Emmett Perdue) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 15:00:43 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to accept mail from a single IP / DNS name onlyfor a given list In-Reply-To: <495BDA88.3020301@riverviewtech.net> References: <495BDA88.3020301@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: Thanks everyone, the posting with a header password seemed the easiest to do so I went with that. I will read up on trying some things with sendmail to see what can be done there. On Dec 31, 2008, at 3:48 PM, Grant Taylor wrote: > On 12/31/08 12:00, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> You could set up header_filter_rules (Privacy options... -> Spam >> filters) for this list as follows: > > Eh... > > I would think that this would be easy to fool by adding a bogus > Received: header. So, IMHO this is not such a good idea. > >> However, An easier and better way to do this is to moderate Bob >> along with everyone else and have Bob post with a header >> Approved: password >> where password is the list's admin or moderator password. > > I like this better. > > > > Grant. . . . > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list > Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/eperdue%40comcast.net > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 From john at swajime.com Thu Jan 1 16:30:37 2009 From: john at swajime.com (John Wesley Simpson Hibbs) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 09:30:37 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic bounce processing; listname-bounces vs. listname-bounces+XXXX Message-ID: <1230823837.6994.76.camel@ezekiel.swajime.com> Our mailing lists had been processing bounces correctly for quite some time. For some reason though, this has stopped functioning properly. Bounces were coming back to list-bounces+XXXX, and are now coming back to list-bounces, without the XXXX. The setting "Should Mailman perform automatic bounce processing?" is set to yes. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. john What I am getting now: ==================================================================== Subject: Uncaught bounce notification From: mailman-bounces at radiolists.net To: mailman-owner at radiolists.net Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 05:03:56 -0600 Precedence: bulk X-BeenThere: mailman at radiolists.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 List-Id: mailman.radiolists.net X-List-Administrivia: yes Sender: mailman-bounces at radiolists.net Errors-To: mailman-bounces at radiolists.net The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted from it. This mailing list has been configured to send all unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s). For more information see: http://lists.radiolists.net/mailman/admin/mailman/bounce Return-Path: <> Delivered-To: 9-mailman-bounces at radiolists.net Date: 1 Jan 2009 11:03:48 -0000 From: MAILER-DAEMON at example.com To: mailman-bounces at radiolists.net Subject: failure notice This is the mail delivery agent at example.com. I was not able to deliver your message to the following addresses. : 208.77.188.166 does not like recipient. Remote host said: 550 ... User not known --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: Subject: radiolists.net mailing list memberships reminder From: mailman-owner at radiolists.net To: user at example.com Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 05:01:05 -0600 Precedence: bulk X-BeenThere: mailman at radiolists.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 List-Id: mailman.radiolists.net X-List-Administrivia: yes Sender: mailman-bounces at radiolists.net Errors-To: mailman-bounces at radiolists.net This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your radiolists.net mailing list memberships. It includes your subscription info and how to use it to change it or unsubscribe from a list. You can visit the URLs to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. In addition to the URL interfaces, you can also use email to make such changes. For more info, send a message to the '-request' address of the list (for example, mailman-request at radiolists.net) containing just the word 'help' in the message body, and an email message will be sent to you with instructions. If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to mailman-owner at radiolists.net. Thanks! Passwords for user at example.com: List Password // URL ---- -------- example_list at radiolists.net 123456 http://lists.radiolists.net/mailman/options/example-list/user% 40example.com ==================================================================== -- John Wesley Simpson Hibbs SwaJime's Cove From brad at shub-internet.org Fri Jan 2 08:27:10 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 01:27:10 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic bounce processing; listname-bounces vs. listname-bounces+XXXX In-Reply-To: <1230823837.6994.76.camel@ezekiel.swajime.com> References: <1230823837.6994.76.camel@ezekiel.swajime.com> Message-ID: <495DC1CE.8080700@shub-internet.org> on 1/1/09 9:30 AM, John Wesley Simpson Hibbs said: > Our mailing lists had been processing bounces correctly for quite some > time. > > For some reason though, this has stopped functioning properly. > > Bounces were coming back to list-bounces+XXXX, and are now coming back > to list-bounces, without the XXXX. > > The setting "Should Mailman perform automatic bounce processing?" is set > to yes. Do you run your own MTA to transmit your messages, or is that service provided by someone else. This smells to me like someone somewhere made some changes on the MTA to strip VERP-style "plus" addressing, and that may have borked your mailing lists. If you run your own mail server, check to see if there have been any recent changes made on the MTA. Check the logs of the MTA from both before the change and after the change, to see what the effect is. If you don't run your own mail server, you'll need to contact the people that do to get them to do this analysis for you. -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From measl at mfn.org Fri Jan 2 09:43:41 2009 From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 02:43:41 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejection messages Message-ID: Good Morning, If i reject a posting for exceeding size limits, the reason given will be "no reason given" if I reject using the default interface, and will only state the correct reason (too bog, please trim) if I reject from the "details" interface. This is both unintuitive and wrong: It was held for size, the first notice says it was held for size, and it is rejected for the reason held. Shouldnt the default reason (the reason for being held) be the reject reason? 2.11MM thanks! //Alif -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin_at_mfn.org 0xpgp_key_mgmt_is_broken-dont_bother "Never belong to any party, always oppose privileged classes and public plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty." Joseph Pulitzer 1907 Speech From rsk at gsp.org Fri Jan 2 16:44:58 2009 From: rsk at gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 10:44:58 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The economics of spam In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090102154458.GA28031@gsp.org> On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 10:15:43AM -0800, Jan Steinman wrote: > I would willingly pay a hundredth of a cent (or so) per email sent if it > would reduce spam to near-zero. This is a thoroughly-discredited, utterly broken idea which, unfortunately, seems to keep coming back like a bad penny. It is based on the ludicrous notion that abusers -- who have consistently demonstrated themselves to be willing to spam, hijack computer systems, purloin ASNs, craft spyware, release viruses, send junk faxes, etc. -- will, for absolutely no reason whatsoever, suddenly and magically behave honestly and pay to send mail. Please. Put a stake through the heart of this idiocy and let's not ever mention it again. ---Rsk From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 2 17:36:33 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 08:36:33 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic bounce processing; listname-bounces vs. listname-bounces+XXXX In-Reply-To: <1230823837.6994.76.camel@ezekiel.swajime.com> Message-ID: John Wesley Simpson Hibbs wrote: >Our mailing lists had been processing bounces correctly for quite some >time. > >For some reason though, this has stopped functioning properly. Did you just upgrade to Mailman 2.1.11? >Bounces were coming back to list-bounces+XXXX, and are now coming back >to list-bounces, without the XXXX. The difference is Mailman's VERP >The setting "Should Mailman perform automatic bounce processing?" is set >to yes. > >Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. > >john > >What I am getting now: > [Bounce of a Password reminder snipped.] Is it only password reminders that you are seeing as unrecognized bounces? There are two things going on now. The password reminder wasn't VERP'd because this is controlled by VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS which is a separate setting in mm_cfg.py from those that control VERPing of list messages. In 2.1.11, the VERPing of the password reminder wouldn't matter because of two things: 1) Password reminders don't come from a regular list. Since reminders may be for more that one list when the address is subscribed to more than one list, the reminder is sent from the site list (this is not new in 2.1.11). 2) Site list bounces are handled differently in 2.1.11. In the past, if something from the site list bounced, at least in some cases it was handled as an ordinary bounce of a message from the site list. In most cases, these bounces were bounces of password reminders, and the remindee is not a member of the site list anyway, so the bounce, if recognized, would be ignored. The 2.1.11 change is to forward all site list bounces to the site list owner without even trying to recognize them. However, upon looking closer, I see that this probably isn't what's going on here, because the forward to the site list owner as above is not wrapped in an "unrecognized bounce" message. I tried running that message through the current recognizers, and it is recognized, so now it looks to me as if: 1) you have an older Mailman that doesn't recognize that particular bounce, and 2) You have not set "VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes" in mm_cfg.py. Actually, It is a good thing you saw this unrecognized bounce. Had it been recognized, it would have been ignored as the user probably isn't a member of the site list. What happens in these cases is a list member sets delivery off for some reason and then forgets about the list. Then the address dies and the only mail to the address is the monthly password reminder which even if it bounces and is recognized, never removes the dead address from the list of which it is a member. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 2 18:27:17 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 09:27:17 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejection messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: J.A. Terranson wrote: > > If i reject a posting for exceeding size limits, the reason given >will be "no reason given" if I reject using the default interface, and >will only state the correct reason (too bog, please trim) if I reject from >the "details" interface. > > This is both unintuitive and wrong: It was held for size, the >first notice says it was held for size, and it is rejected for the reason >held. Shouldnt the default reason (the reason for being held) be the >reject reason? Yes, it probably should. It currently doesn't primarily because the message metadata which contains the reason is not retrieved during processing of actions from the admindb summary form. I think the reason for this is historical. I'm working on a fix. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dap1 at bellsouth.net Sat Jan 3 01:51:24 2009 From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 19:51:24 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Incoming Mail Going to Wrong List ( was: List Distribution Sequence Confusion) In-Reply-To: <495D175D.8030901@bellsouth.net> References: <495D175D.8030901@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <495EB68C.2060906@bellsouth.net> I have more information on this that explains why I was confused about the sequence of events for processing mail to a list. It is not going to listname-bounces but rather going to mailman-bounces. The message is addressed to listname at mydomain.com but winds up going to mailman at mydomain.com instead. Why is the wrong list processing the incoming mail? How do I debug this? TIA. Dennis Putnam wrote: > I am having a problem when mailman (2.1.9) tries to distribute mail. My > main problem is that I do not understand what it is doing. I do not have > a static IP and I have to relay outgoing mail through my ISP's server. > Thus there was a lot of fudging of the configuration to make it work > thanks to help from this list. When I try to send mail to a list it > seems to be trying to mail it to listname-bounces at fakehost.mydomain.com. > As result I get this this message from my ISP's server, not unexpectedly: > > 550 [PERMFAIL] destination not valid within DNS (in reply to RCPT TO > command)) > > I don't understand why it is sending mail there instead of to the > members of the list. What am I doing wrong? > > FWIW, this was a working system prior to upgrading my Mandriva OS to > 2008.1 so lots of things were changed. I can't say what specifically so > this is almost like starting from scratch even though I copied all the > config files from the working system. > > Thanks. > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 258 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 3 02:26:42 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 17:26:42 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Incoming Mail Going to Wrong List ( was: ListDistribution Sequence Confusion) In-Reply-To: <495EB68C.2060906@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Dennis Putnam wrote: > >I have more information on this that explains why I was confused about >the sequence of events for processing mail to a list. It is not going >to listname-bounces but rather going to mailman-bounces. The message is >addressed to listname at mydomain.com but winds up going to >mailman at mydomain.com instead. Why is the wrong list processing the >incoming mail? How do I debug this? TIA. How does incoming mail get to Mailman? Are you using something like DynDNS to route incoming mail to an MTA on your box? If so, look in the MTA's logs to see what it says about the misdirected message. If not, what MTA(s), Aliases, fetchmail, procmail recipes, etc. are involved? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From measl at mfn.org Sat Jan 3 04:57:31 2009 From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 21:57:31 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejection messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Jan 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Yes, it probably should. It currently doesn't primarily because the > message metadata which contains the reason is not retrieved during > processing of actions from the admindb summary form. I think the > reason for this is historical. > > I'm working on a fix. For 2.11, or 3? If for 2.11: you have my eternal gratitute: this casues more grief than you cn imagine! //Alif -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin_at_mfn.org 0xpgp_key_mgmt_is_broken-dont_bother "Never belong to any party, always oppose privileged classes and public plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty." Joseph Pulitzer 1907 Speech From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 3 05:10:28 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 20:10:28 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejection messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: J.A. Terranson wrote: > >On Fri, 2 Jan 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> Yes, it probably should. It currently doesn't primarily because the >> message metadata which contains the reason is not retrieved during >> processing of actions from the admindb summary form. I think the >> reason for this is historical. >> >> I'm working on a fix. > >For 2.11, or 3? If for 2.11: you have my eternal gratitute: this casues >more grief than you cn imagine! The fix has been committed for 2.1.12. You can get a patch at . Note that this patch changes 3 files - admindb.py, Utils.py and NEWS. The NEWS patch is only documentation of the changes and the Utils.py patch is for a different issue. Only the admindb.py patch is needed to fix this issue. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From jd-mailman-users at dybdal.dk Sat Jan 3 00:51:33 2009 From: jd-mailman-users at dybdal.dk (Jesper Dybdal) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 00:51:33 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Warnings from senddigests Message-ID: I've just installed Mailman version 2.1.11. In general, it works fine. Whenever my mailman cron job runs senddigests, I get the following warnings (on stdout or stderr, mailed to me by cron): >/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py:192: DeprecationWarning: get_type() deprecated; use get_content_type() > ctype = part.get_type(part.get_default_type()) >/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py:303: DeprecationWarning: get_type() deprecated; use get_content_type() > ctype = part.get_type() >List: jdtest: problem processing /home/mailman/lists/jdtest/digest.mbox: >iso-8859-15 The first two sounds like very minor problems in Scrubber.py. I wonder about the last one. My test list does have messages in ISO 8815-15 (that is the character set my mail client uses for a message containing the Euro sign - at least if it also contains the Danish non-usascii letters). I currently have to digest subscribers, so I don't know if this a real problem. Does Mailman perhaps simply not support ISO 8859-15? -- Jesper Dybdal, Denmark. http://www.dybdal.dk (in Danish). From jd-mailman-users at dybdal.dk Sat Jan 3 01:06:26 2009 From: jd-mailman-users at dybdal.dk (Jesper Dybdal) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 01:06:26 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch for use of Postfix VERP support Message-ID: I've just installed Mailman version 2.1.11. I was surprised to find that the standard distribution had no support for the Postfix VERP feature, which can create VERP return paths much more efficiently than when Mailman does it itself. I did find a patch for the FreeBSD port of an earlier Mailman version (at http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports-bugs/2007-October/128777.html), and changed it to match the standard 2.1.11 distribution. It seems to work fine. If anybody should be interested, I've placed the modified patch, directly usable for 2.1.11, at http://www.dybdal.dk/mailman-2.1.11-postfix-verp.patch Note that even with the patch, this feature is disabled by default; it is turned on by setting VERP_STYLE = 'Postfix'. It also needs to be allowed explicitly in the Postfix configuration (e.g., "smtpd_authorized_verp_clients=127.0.0.0/8"). I have tested the patch only with the feature turned on. -- Jesper Dybdal, Denmark. http://www.dybdal.dk (in Danish). From fil at rezo.net Sat Jan 3 16:07:20 2009 From: fil at rezo.net (Fil) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 16:07:20 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch for use of Postfix VERP support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jesper, I've done the following, with little success so far: 1) applied your patch to Mailman/Defaults.py and Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py 2) added the 2 configuration lines in Mailman/mm_cfg.py 3) restarted mailman :-) 4) added to /etc/postfixmain.cf the line smtpd_authorized_verp_clients=127.0.0.0/8 5) reloaded postfix But no luck: I still receive messages with Return-Path: a small HOWTO would be very useful. On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 1:06 AM, Jesper Dybdal wrote: > I was surprised to find that the standard distribution had no support > for the Postfix VERP feature, which can create VERP return paths much > more efficiently than when Mailman does it itself. From jd-mailman-users at dybdal.dk Sat Jan 3 16:16:52 2009 From: jd-mailman-users at dybdal.dk (Jesper Dybdal) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 16:16:52 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch for use of Postfix VERP support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Fil, On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 16:07:20 +0100, Fil wrote: >I've done the following, with little success so far: >1) applied your patch to Mailman/Defaults.py and Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py >2) added the 2 configuration lines in Mailman/mm_cfg.py >3) restarted mailman :-) >4) added to /etc/postfixmain.cf the line > smtpd_authorized_verp_clients=127.0.0.0/8 >5) reloaded postfix > >But no luck: I still receive messages with Return-Path: What you've done so far is to ensure that when and if Mailman uses VERP, it does so by asking Postfix to create the VERP return path, instead of doing it by itself (which would require it to deliver the message to Postfix once for every recipient). You also need to tell Mailman when to actually use VERP. My mm_cfg.py contains: VERP_PROBES = Yes VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes VERP_STYLE = 'Postfix' -- Jesper Dybdal, Denmark. http://www.dybdal.dk (in Danish). From fil at rezo.net Sat Jan 3 16:29:19 2009 From: fil at rezo.net (Fil) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 16:29:19 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch for use of Postfix VERP support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Jesper Dybdal wrote: > VERP_PROBES = Yes > VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes > VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes > VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 > VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes > VERP_STYLE = 'Postfix' Yay, it works, takk. One thing to note: local addresses such as mine (fil at rezo.net is defined in /etc/postfix/virtual as an alias for recifs at gmail.com) will be VERPed to test-bounces+recifs=gmail.com and not test-bounces+fil=rezo.net So I now guess we have the README file ready. Will you give it an official home and link it from the patch file? -- Fil From fil at rezo.net Sat Jan 3 16:33:52 2009 From: fil at rezo.net (Fil) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 16:33:52 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch for use of Postfix VERP support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Another difference to mention in the README is that the postfix logs will show the normal (unVERPed) addresses instead of the VERPed addresses: Jan 3 16:28:09 alan postfix/qmgr[17364]: 4754D3B05C7: from=, size=3082, nrcpt=4 (queue active) Jan 3 16:28:10 alan postfix/smtp[27894]: 4754D3B05C7: to=, orig_to=, relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[216.239.59.27]:25, delay=0.72, delays=0.11/0.02/0.14/0.45, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 OK 1230996360 t2si31343988gve.31) -- Fil From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 3 17:51:10 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 08:51:10 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Warnings from senddigests In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jesper Dybdal wrote: >I've just installed Mailman version 2.1.11. > >In general, it works fine. Given the below, I'm surprised. >Whenever my mailman cron job runs senddigests, I get the following >warnings (on stdout or stderr, mailed to me by cron): > >>/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py:192: DeprecationWarning: get_type() deprecated; use get_content_type() >> ctype = part.get_type(part.get_default_type()) >>/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py:303: DeprecationWarning: get_type() deprecated; use get_content_type() >> ctype = part.get_type() >>List: jdtest: problem processing /home/mailman/lists/jdtest/digest.mbox: >>iso-8859-15 > >The first two sounds like very minor problems in Scrubber.py. Mailman 2.1.11 is not compatible with Python 2.6. Most of the errors are deprecation warnings similar to those above and also involving hashlib. You'll probably find lots more in Mailman's error log. There are however more serious problems involving string exceptions and also incompatibilites in the email package. I'm surprised it works at all, unless this is a package that doesn't install email 2.5.8 in Mailman's pythonlib. >I wonder about the last one. My test list does have messages in ISO >8815-15 (that is the character set my mail client uses for a message >containing the Euro sign - at least if it also contains the Danish >non-usascii letters). > >I currently have to digest subscribers, so I don't know if this a real >problem. Does Mailman perhaps simply not support ISO 8859-15? Mailman supports any character set supported by the underlying Python and should not have any problems with iso-8859-15, The error message you get from senddigests is not too informative. All it says is that something in the send digest processing for the jdtest list threw an exception and the error message from the exception was 'iso-8859-15'. Thus it's pretty hard to diagnose, but you need to address the Python incompatibility first anyway, and that may solve the other problem. If you installed from source, you can rerun configure with --with-python pointing to a Python 2.4 or 2.5 and make install, or you can get the current 2.1 branch from Launchpad (bzr branch lp:mailman/stable) which is Python 2.6 compatible and install that (there will be a 2.1.12 release soon). If you installed from a package and don't want to upgrade to the latest 2.1 source from Launchpad, you will have to do whatever is necessary to make your package use an older Python. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From jd-mailman-users at dybdal.dk Sat Jan 3 18:29:06 2009 From: jd-mailman-users at dybdal.dk (Jesper Dybdal) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 18:29:06 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch for use of Postfix VERP support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: [My apologies to Fil for first sending this to him only - it was intended for the list] On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 16:29:19 +0100, Fil wrote: >One thing to note: local addresses such as mine (fil at rezo.net is >defined in /etc/postfix/virtual as an alias for recifs at gmail.com) will >be VERPed to test-bounces+recifs=gmail.com and not >test-bounces+fil=rezo.net Yes. I have discussed this on the Postfix-users mailing list during the past week, and it sounds as if that will be corrected at some time. Until it is changed in Postfix, it can be a problem if a local address bounces, because Mailman will probably not be able to determine which subscriber it was that bounced - but fortunately, local addresses do not bounce very often. >So I now guess we have the README file ready. Will you give it an >official home and link it from the patch file? I am afraid there is nothing "official" about any home I can give to anything. -- Jesper Dybdal, Denmark. http://www.dybdal.dk (in Danish). From jd-mailman-users at dybdal.dk Sat Jan 3 18:45:40 2009 From: jd-mailman-users at dybdal.dk (Jesper Dybdal) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 18:45:40 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Warnings from senddigests In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 00:51:33 +0100, I wrote: >I currently have to digest subscribers, so I don't know if this a real >problem. That should have been "*no* digest subscribers" - sorry. On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 08:51:10 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: >Mailman 2.1.11 is not compatible with Python 2.6. Most of the errors >are deprecation warnings similar to those above and also involving >hashlib. You'll probably find lots more in Mailman's error log. Now I'm confused. Why do you think I am using Python 2.6? I am actually using Python 2.4.5 (installed using the Slackware 11.0 Python package): >jesper at nuser:~$ python -V >Python 2.4.5 And yes, there are quite a few of those warnings in the error log. Mailman seems to work in general, but I haven't tried digests - which probably do not work, given the error message. But everything I've read seems to indicate that Python 2.4.5 should be fine for Mailman. I've installed Mailman straight from the 2.1.11 distribution, except for a Postfix VERP patch and some file rights changes to make it run with suexec. It runs on a Slackware 11.0 Linux with some packages upgraded from source or from Slackware upgrades. The kernel is Linux 2.6.26.2. -- Jesper Dybdal, Denmark. http://www.dybdal.dk (in Danish). From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 3 19:19:17 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:19:17 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Warnings from senddigests In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jesper Dybdal wrote: > >On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 08:51:10 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >>Mailman 2.1.11 is not compatible with Python 2.6. Most of the errors >>are deprecation warnings similar to those above and also involving >>hashlib. You'll probably find lots more in Mailman's error log. > >Now I'm confused. Why do you think I am using Python 2.6? > >I am actually using Python 2.4.5 (installed using the Slackware 11.0 >Python package): > >>jesper at nuser:~$ python -V >>Python 2.4.5 > >And yes, there are quite a few of those warnings in the error log. >Mailman seems to work in general, but I haven't tried digests - which >probably do not work, given the error message. I'm not sure about the digests problem. You could try 'bin/withlist -i' and then at the >>> prompt type unicode('abcde', 'iso-8859-15') if this prints u'abcde' Mailman is able to access the iso-8859-15 codecs and there should be no problem with iso-8859-15. If it prints LookupError: unknown encoding: iso-8859-15 There is an issue, and you could try the same test with 'python' instead of 'bin/withlist -i' to see if it's Mailman specific or a Python problem. (In either case, type control-D to the next >>> prompt to exit.) >But everything I've read seems to indicate that Python 2.4.5 should be >fine for Mailman. Yes. That's correct. >I've installed Mailman straight from the 2.1.11 distribution, except for >a Postfix VERP patch and some file rights changes to make it run with >suexec. > >It runs on a Slackware 11.0 Linux with some packages upgraded from >source or from Slackware upgrades. The kernel is Linux 2.6.26.2. Sorry. I jumped to an unwarranted assumption. I thought the deprecation warnings were from Python 2.6. Actually they probably come from the Python 2.4.5 email package which would indicate that for some reason, either the email 2.5.8 package that comes with Mailman 2.1.11 did not get installed in Mailman's pythonlib directory or for some reason, the paths.py module in Mailman's bin, cron and scripts directories is not inserting the correct path to pythonlib in sys.path. Is there a pythonlib directory in Mailman's "prefix" directory and does it contain an 'email' subdirectory? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 3 19:33:33 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:33:33 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch for use of Postfix VERP support In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jesper Dybdal wrote: > >I am afraid there is nothing "official" about any home I can give to >anything. Post the patch and a brief write-up to the tracker at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From barry at list.org Sat Jan 3 20:15:42 2009 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 14:15:42 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] ANNOUNCE: GNU Mailman 3.0a2 (Grand Designs) Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hello Mailpersons, I'm happy to announce the availability of GNU Mailman version 3.0 alpha 2, code name "Grand Designs". Of course, this is still an alpha snapshot and not suitable for production systems, however there is a lot of good functional stuff in this release that is worthy of a look. Because this is still alpha software, you can have a big influence on where the code goes from here. I'm especially interested in feedback from integrators, and I welcome your contribution. Mailman 3.0 alpha 2 should be functional enough to create mailing lists, connect them to your MTA, add and remove members, and send email to those lists. Incoming mail integration is currently only supported for Postfix via LMTP; contributions for other MTAs and incoming mechanisms are welcome. The web interface is still not functional, so for now you have to interact with Mailman via the command line. Please feel free to discuss Mailman 3 development on the mailman- developers mailing list. You can submit branches and bugs to the Launchpad bug tracker at https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman For detailed information on 3.0a2, please read docs/ALPHA.txt. This file explains how to build Mailman and run the test suite. The docs/ NEWS.txt file contains high level descriptions of what's changed since 3.0a1. Most notably are the new configuration system, the better test suite and installation process, and the new LMTP support. Mailman 3 also contains extensive doctests which explain how certain subsystems work. Please note that Python 2.6 is required. You can download the tarball either from the Cheeseshop or from Launchpad. An egg is available on the Cheeseshop. See: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/mailman/3.0.0a2 https://launchpad.net/mailman/+download for details. I hope you find this second snapshot useful and encouraging. Please participate! Enjoy, B. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAklfuV8ACgkQ2YZpQepbvXGRzACeLPvX9eeaPj4x9viw6qZqxgUA sawAn0iDsOHBMM6+RzfUJSQX9RORZTy/ =tTMG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 3 20:51:38 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 11:51:38 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.x Roadmap Message-ID: Barry has been making wonderful progress with Mailman 3.0 and has just announced the second alpha release. This may leave some of you wondering what's happening with the Mailman 2.x series, so this note is for all interested Mailman users, developers and translators to give an idea of what to expect in Mailman 2.x in the coming months. Within the next few days, I plan to release Mailman 2.1.12rc1. This release contains several minor bug fixes since 2.1.11 and is updated for compatibility with Python 2.6. It will not work with Python older than 2.4. In the absence of "show stopping" bugs, the only changes between this and the final 2.1.12 release will be translation updates. I expect to release the final by the end of January. After January, my focus will be on Mailman 2.2. This branch was originally intended to be an overhaul of Mailman's GUI, but that work is stalled and will be deferred to Mailman 2.3 or 3.0. The focus of Mailman 2.2 will be ongoing maintenance of the 2.x series and several small new features that have not been added in the 2.1 branch because of i18n considerations. I hope to be able to release a 2.2 beta before the end of March, 2009. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Jan at Bytesmiths.com Sat Jan 3 23:52:21 2009 From: Jan at Bytesmiths.com (Jan Steinman) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 14:52:21 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The economics of spam In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > From: Rich Kulawiec > > On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 10:15:43AM -0800, Jan Steinman wrote: >> I would willingly pay a hundredth of a cent (or so) per email sent >> if it >> would reduce spam to near-zero. > > This is a thoroughly-discredited, utterly broken idea... based on > the ludicrous > notion that abusers... will, for absolutely no reason > whatsoever, suddenly and magically behave honestly and pay to send > mail. No, it is based upon the idea that a system could be implemented whereby it would be impossible to avoid the payment. Or should we just admit that any crook can hack any arbitrary ATM machine, or that any mass-marketer can send paper mail without a stamp? I don't believe anyone in this discussion was relying on the ethics of voluntary payments to reduce spam. :::: If vegetarians eat only vegetables, what do humanitarians eat? :::: Jan Steinman From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 4 00:01:28 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 15:01:28 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The economics of spam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jan Steinman wrote: >> From: Rich Kulawiec >> >> On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 10:15:43AM -0800, Jan Steinman wrote: >>> I would willingly pay a hundredth of a cent (or so) per email sent >>> if it >>> would reduce spam to near-zero. >> >> This is a thoroughly-discredited, utterly broken idea... based on >> the ludicrous >> notion that abusers... will, for absolutely no reason >> whatsoever, suddenly and magically behave honestly and pay to send >> mail. > >No, it is based upon the idea that a system could be implemented >whereby it would be impossible to avoid the payment. > >Or should we just admit that any crook can hack any arbitrary ATM >machine, or that any mass-marketer can send paper mail without a stamp? That's not an apt analogy. The issue here is not whether a system can be developed that would require mail delivery to be paid for. The issue is whether the spammers can figure a way to shift the payment to someone else in the same way that they already hijack the resources of unsuspecting user's machines to enable them to send much more spam than if they actually had to pay for the hardware. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From jd-mailman-users at dybdal.dk Sun Jan 4 00:35:25 2009 From: jd-mailman-users at dybdal.dk (Jesper Dybdal) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 00:35:25 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Warnings from senddigests In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:19:17 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: >I'm not sure about the digests problem. You could try 'bin/withlist -i' >and then at the >>> prompt type > >unicode('abcde', 'iso-8859-15') > >if this prints > >u'abcde' > >Mailman is able to access the iso-8859-15 codecs and there should be no >problem with iso-8859-15. It does print "u'abcde'". Good! >I thought the deprecation >warnings were from Python 2.6. Actually they probably come from the >Python 2.4.5 email package which would indicate that for some reason, >either the email 2.5.8 package that comes with Mailman 2.1.11 did not >get installed in Mailman's pythonlib directory or for some reason, the >paths.py module in Mailman's bin, cron and scripts directories is not >inserting the correct path to pythonlib in sys.path. > >Is there a pythonlib directory in Mailman's "prefix" directory and does >it contain an 'email' subdirectory? I think you've diagnosed the problem. There is a pythonlib directory, but it is empty. I built Mailman as user "root" (knowing perfectly well that this is not the thing to do unless you choose to trust your software providers), but I ran "make install" as user "mailman" in order to ensure that the resulting files would have the correct owner. I'll have a further look at the install procedure, but if you have any idea how it could have failed, I'd really like to hear about it. -- Jesper Dybdal, Denmark. http://www.dybdal.dk (in Danish). From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 4 01:48:40 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 16:48:40 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Warnings from senddigests In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jesper Dybdal wrote: > >I think you've diagnosed the problem. There is a pythonlib directory, >but it is empty. > >I built Mailman as user "root" (knowing perfectly well that this is not >the thing to do unless you choose to trust your software providers), but >I ran "make install" as user "mailman" in order to ensure that the >resulting files would have the correct owner. This is backwards from the normal installation. It doesn't matter what user does the configure (and make if you did both make and make install), but normally, make install is run as root. Root ends up owning most everything this way, but that doesn't matter as all the directories are SETGID and everything ends up in the 'mailman' group which is what counts. >I'll have a further look at the install procedure, but if you have any >idea how it could have failed, I'd really like to hear about it. Try to cd to the misc/ subdirectory of the directory that you unpacked and configured in and run make install-packages in that directory. Note that depending on your exact C compiler, it is possible to get thousands of warnings similar to src/_koco_uhc.h:3007: warning: pointer targets in initialization differ in signedness. These are harmless, but for this reason, it is a good idea to do something like make install-packages 2>make.error.log so you can sift through the error output and find any errors that might otherwise be lost amongst those warnings. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 4 02:11:46 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 17:11:46 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] {Disarmed} Re: Automatic bounce processing; listname-bouncesvs. listname-bounces+XXXX In-Reply-To: <1231029010.19796.162.camel@ezekiel.swajime.com> Message-ID: John Wesley Simpson Hibbs wrote: > >On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 08:36 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> Is it only password reminders that you are seeing as unrecognized >> bounces? > >No... I've appended one that was not a password reminder to the end of this post. > [...] > >I just now appended (per your advise) the following to mm_cfg.py: > > VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes > VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes > VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes > >I then did "service mailman restart" and sent a test message through. >Still no +VERP in the list-bounces at . I assume you also have VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 in mm_cfg.py. That's the important one. >This is rather annoying, especially since I went to a lot of trouble >getting qmail to deliver the list-bounces+VERP to mailman in the first >place, and things were working for quite a while... [...] >>Return-Path: <> >>Delivered-To: 9-list-bounces at example.net >>Date: 20 Dec 2008 22:11:56 -0000 >>From: MAILER-DAEMON at subscriber.example.net >>To: list-bounces at example.net >>Subject: failure notice >>We're sorry. There's a problem with the e-mail address(es) you're >trying >>to send to. Please verify the address(es) and try again. If you continue >>to have problems, please contact Customer Support at (nnn) nnn-nnnn. >> >>: >>child status 100...The e-mail message could not be delivered because >>the user's mailfolder is full. >> >>--- Below this line is a copy of the message. >> >>Return-Path: >>Return-Path: >>Delivered-To: 9-list at radiolists.net >>Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:11:34 -0500 >>From: "Poster" >>To: LIST >>Subject: [LIST] _________ >>X-BeenThere: list at example.net >>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >>Precedence: list >>Reply-To: LIST >>List-Id: LIST >>Sender: list-bounces at example.net >>Errors-To: list-bounces at example.net When Mailman does the VERPing, not only the envelope sender (reflected as Return-Path:), but also the Sender: and Errors-To: headers are VERPd. Brad suggested in another reply that it is possibly some other, external MTA that is "unVERPing" the envelope. It seems unlikely that this is the case, both because it would also have to be "unVERPing" the Sender: and Errors-To:, and because I suspect that the qmail generated DSN above was generated by your own local qmail. So it looks like for some reason, Mailman is not VERPing. Assuming you do have VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 in mm_cfg.py, and it didn't somehow get lost, I don't know what would make Mailman behave this way. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From measl at mfn.org Sun Jan 4 03:23:28 2009 From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 20:23:28 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] The economics of spam In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Jan 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote: > That's not an apt analogy. The issue here is not whether a system can > be developed that would require mail delivery to be paid for. The See: http://www.hashcash.org/ //alif -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin_at_mfn.org 0xpgp_key_mgmt_is_broken-dont_bother "Never belong to any party, always oppose privileged classes and public plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty." Joseph Pulitzer 1907 Speech From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 4 03:37:21 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 18:37:21 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] {Disarmed} Re: Automatic bounceprocessing; listname-bouncesvs. listname-bounces+XXXX In-Reply-To: <1231032109.19796.172.camel@ezekiel.swajime.com> Message-ID: John Wesley Simpson Hibbs wrote: > >That was the culprit... I see my +VERP's now, although they look >somewhat different from what I remember. >Now I see my address in the VERP, where before I saw long numeric >strings. >At any rate, this looks like it's fixed now. >I'll post back when I know for sure. What you were seeing before was a VERP probe. I recommend you disable those by setting VERP_PROBES = No in mm_cfg.py. This feature was introduced in 2.1.5 and has defaulted to No since 2.1.6. With VERP_PROBES = Yes, when a user's bounce score reaches the threshold, the score is reset and the user is sent a probe message from LIST-bounces+string_of_hex_digits at ..., and the user's delivery is only disabled by bounce if the probe bounces. If for some reason, the probe bounces don't return, the user is never disabled. This usually has an adverse effect only if normal deliveries aren't VERPd and mail to the VERP like address is not properly delivered, but this is exactly why the default was changed in 2.1.6. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From b19141 at anl.gov Sun Jan 4 03:48:01 2009 From: b19141 at anl.gov (b19141 at anl.gov) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 20:48:01 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Warnings from senddigests Message-ID: <20090104024801.494EA2ADA3@atalanta.it.anl.gov> Jesper Dybdal wrote: > >I think you've diagnosed the problem. There is a pythonlib directory, >but it is empty. Note that the Debian/Ubuntu Mailman package deletes mailman/pythonlib/ Mark Sapiro replied to a posting Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:48:30 -0800: >Some additional information: > >This is mailman 2.1.8-2ubuntu2. > >The reference to the 'bug fix' is at > >in which is found > > * Make sure we don't ship /var/lib/mailman/pythonlib, should make that > go away on installations which already have it (closes: #242740). > >(I couldn't find a description of #242740). > >The above change seems to have been made some time ago, so perhaps the >issue is caused by some more recent change to the Ubuntu Python email >library. And Todd Zullinger replied Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:08:51 -0500 >That looks to be from the Debian Mailman package, which Ubuntu uses as >it's base. See the long trail here: > > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=242740 > >The short summary for the bug is "bad installation when >/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib is a symlink." > >(I've never found the Debian bugs page very easy to follow. :) I do not know how the original poster (OP) is building and installing Mailman. This removal of pythonlib is one of the reasons I decided to build my own Mailman package for Ubuntu from the SourceForge source. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From rsk at gsp.org Sun Jan 4 14:27:07 2009 From: rsk at gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 08:27:07 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The economics of spam In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090104132707.GA28652@gsp.org> On Sat, Jan 03, 2009 at 02:52:21PM -0800, Jan Steinman wrote: > No, it is based upon the idea that a system could be implemented whereby > it would be impossible to avoid the payment. It can't. This idiotic idea resurfaces periodically (see "hashcash" and other similar products of the wishful thinking of clueless newbies [1]). It is one of the very stupidest anti-spam ideas -- and there's a lot of competition for that "honor", unfortunately. [2] I suggest that you refer to the archives of the spam-l and irtf-asrg mailing lists for a quite thorough debunking of this nonsense by the most senior and experienced people working in the field. ---Rsk [1] Hashcash fails on inspection because attackers control vastly more computing resources than defenders, by several orders of magnitude. [2] Including "anti-spam" ideas which actually make the problem worse. See "C/R" and "SAV", for example. From bernie at fantasyfarm.com Sun Jan 4 15:56:33 2009 From: bernie at fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 09:56:33 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rejecting on size before content-filters Message-ID: <496087D1.28912.17A91F1B@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> Is it possible to change the testing-order so that the list size limit is tested [and generates an appropriate reject] *before* the content filters are processed? [I just ran into one that was nearly double the maximum size but got kicked out because it also ran afoul of one of the content filters, and so what I ended up doing was ignoring the content filter and putting in "message too long...etc" into the 'Reason' on my bounce screen]. tnx! /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:bernie at fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA --> Too many people, too few sheep <-- From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 4 17:18:54 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 08:18:54 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rejecting on size before content-filters In-Reply-To: <496087D1.28912.17A91F1B@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> Message-ID: Bernie Cosell wrote: >Is it possible to change the testing-order so that the list size limit is >tested [and generates an appropriate reject] *before* the content filters >are processed? This is the way it's normally done. The usual request is to do it the other way around. See, e.g., . >[I just ran into one that was nearly double the maximum >size but got kicked out because it also ran afoul of one of the content >filters, and so what I ended up doing was ignoring the content filter and >putting in "message too long...etc" into the 'Reason' on my bounce >screen]. tnx! Do you really mean "content filter" as in "Content filtering" or do you mean something else, perhaps header_filter_rules? "Content filtering" doesn't hold messages. It just removes parts, and perhaps does filter_action if it removes the entire message, but "hold' is not one of the actions. You can rearrange the pipeline similarly to the suggestion in the above referenced post so that whatever handler was responsible for this hold comes after the Hold handler which processes the message size limit amongst others. It is also possible that Hold miscalculated the size of the message. My first contribution to Mailman was a patch to Hold to take preambles and epilogues into account when computing message size. Pre 2.1.7, this wasn't done. There may be other problems in computing the size of possibly malformed messages. So, why was this message held. I.e., exactly what "content filter" did it "run afoul of"? And, if there is something strange happening, do you have a copy of the original message, perhaps in a moderator notice? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From jd-mailman-users at dybdal.dk Sun Jan 4 17:26:01 2009 From: jd-mailman-users at dybdal.dk (Jesper Dybdal) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:26:01 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Warnings from senddigests In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 16:48:40 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: >Try to cd to the misc/ subdirectory of the directory that you unpacked >and configured in and run > >make install-packages Problem found and solved: I had run "make" as root, but "make install" as "mailman", and "make install-packages", which I assume is part of "make install", needs to be able to write to files in the source directory structure where "make" was run. I had naively assumed that "make install" did nothing but copy existing files. Running "make install-packages" as root solved the problem. And in the future, I'll run "make install" as root. Thanks for your help! -- Jesper Dybdal, Denmark. http://www.dybdal.dk (in Danish). From bernie at fantasyfarm.com Sun Jan 4 17:40:56 2009 From: bernie at fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 11:40:56 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rejecting on size before content-filters In-Reply-To: References: <496087D1.28912.17A91F1B@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>, Message-ID: <4960A048.32105.1808AF76@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> On 4 Jan 2009 at 8:18, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Bernie Cosell wrote: > > >Is it possible to change the testing-order so that the list size limit is > >tested [and generates an appropriate reject] *before* the content filters > >are processed? > > > This is the way it's normally done. The usual request is to do it the > other way around. See, e.g., > . > Do you really mean "content filter" as in "Content filtering" or do you > mean something else, perhaps header_filter_rules? "Content filtering" > doesn't hold messages. It just removes parts, and perhaps does > filter_action if it removes the entire message, but "hold' is not one > of the actions. My bad.. Sorry I'm new here and I don't get the terminology right. The filter that tripped was in Privacy options/spam filters". > You can rearrange the pipeline similarly to the suggestion in the above > referenced post so that whatever handler was responsible for this hold > comes after the Hold handler which processes the message size limit > amongst others. Ah, Ok -- I see the post and I'll try to figure it out and change the order... > So, why was this message held. I.e., exactly what "content filter" did > it "run afoul of"? It was a little "spammy" by our spam filter [Barracuda]. The listmembers are *astoundingly* spam averse but [of course] I don't want to reject a lot of false positives, so what I've done is set it up so that 'vaguely spam-like' submissions are, in essence, moderated. In addition to "hold"ing on "X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: Yes" I also hold on X-Barracuda- Spam-Score: [other than zero]. This gets a LOT of false positives [a spam score of 1.2 isn't very spammy, but it *might* be spam], so I just send-em through if they're OK. BUT: if the message is too large, then I don't want to send them through, even if the message was legit. so I want the "you're too big" filter to bounce the message before the spam- filter 'holds' it for me. /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:bernie at fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA --> Too many people, too few sheep <-- From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 4 17:43:31 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 08:43:31 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Warnings from senddigests In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jesper Dybdal wrote: > >Problem found and solved: Good! It is still not clear to me if this will also fix the >List: jdtest: problem processing /home/mailman/lists/jdtest/digest.mbox: >iso-8859-15 issue. It may or may not. You can try running cron/senddigests -l jdtest manually as the mailman user to see if it's fixed. If it's not, we can try to figure out what's causing it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From bernie at fantasyfarm.com Sun Jan 4 17:47:05 2009 From: bernie at fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 11:47:05 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rejecting on size before content-filters In-Reply-To: References: <496087D1.28912.17A91F1B@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>, Message-ID: <4960A1B9.16631.180E5042@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> On 4 Jan 2009 at 8:18, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Bernie Cosell wrote: > > >Is it possible to change the testing-order so that the list size limit is > >tested [and generates an appropriate reject] *before* the content filters > >are processed? > > > This is the way it's normally done. The usual request is to do it the > other way around. See, e.g., > . I think I see what to do. Am I correct that this would work [I'm a Perl guy, and I don't know much python at the moment]: GLOBAL_PIPELINE.remove('SpamDetect') GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(GLOBAL_PIPELINE.index('Hold'), 'SpamDetect') /bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:bernie at fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA --> Too many people, too few sheep <-- From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 4 18:08:35 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 09:08:35 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rejecting on size before content-filters In-Reply-To: <4960A1B9.16631.180E5042@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> Message-ID: Bernie Cosell wrote: > >I think I see what to do. Am I correct that this would work [I'm a Perl >guy, and I don't know much python at the moment]: > >GLOBAL_PIPELINE.remove('SpamDetect') >GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(GLOBAL_PIPELINE.index('Hold'), 'SpamDetect') Not quite. First let me say for the benefit of others reading this, that in general, moving SpamDetect after Hold is not a good idea. However, in your case, as described in your immediately prior post, where all your header_filter_rules actions are 'hold' anyway, I think it's OK. The lines above won't do what you want. They will move SpamDetect to a position immediately before Hold. You want it after Hold so you want GLOBAL_PIPELINE.remove('SpamDetect') GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(GLOBAL_PIPELINE.index('Hold') + 1, 'SpamDetect') This will make the initial part of GLOBAL_PIPELINE look like [ 'Approve', 'Replybot', 'Moderate', 'Hold', 'SpamDetect', 'MimeDel', So you will do things in the following order: 1) Detect pre-approved message (Approved: password header) 2) Send any configured Auto-responder responses 3) Process member moderation and non-member actions 4) Process miscellaneous holds (including bounce_matching_headers) 5) Process header_filter_rules 6) Apply Content filtering -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From measl at mfn.org Sun Jan 4 18:15:19 2009 From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 11:15:19 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] The economics of spam In-Reply-To: <20090104132707.GA28652@gsp.org> References: <20090104132707.GA28652@gsp.org> Message-ID: > [1] Hashcash fails on inspection because attackers control vastly more > computing resources than defenders, by several orders of magnitude. The idea behind Hascash is *not* that it will *stop* the flow: it, by itself, most certainly will not. However, no successful security strategy relies on any single modality for successful coverage of any issue. Hascash is another of the various forms of tarpitting, which also does not stop anyone, but it does slow it down, and every little bit helps. I realise I may well be just another "stupid newbie" in your eyes, so please explain why something that can enforce a fixed amount of work to each and every transaction on the SENDER's side is a bad idea by itself. Currently, almost 100% of the cost of protecting yourself falls to your own machines and systems. On the scale of a modern spam run (tens of millions to hundreds of millions of emails per run) the offloading of even a minor workload onto the sender would be a significant overhead transferred to the spammer. Like everything else in the security mileiu, hascash is yet another layer. But more importantly, it is a layer than can be provably shown to affect Mallory more than it will Jane. No matter how many stolen cycles are used to bypass a hascash like scheme, those cycles still *must* be expended by the spammers resource pool. This can *only* be a Good Thing. -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin_at_mfn.org 0xpgp_key_mgmt_is_broken-dont_bother "Never belong to any party, always oppose privileged classes and public plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty." Joseph Pulitzer 1907 Speech From jd-mailman-users at dybdal.dk Sun Jan 4 18:38:48 2009 From: jd-mailman-users at dybdal.dk (Jesper Dybdal) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 18:38:48 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Warnings from senddigests In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 08:43:31 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: >It is still not clear to me if this will also fix the > >>List: jdtest: problem processing /home/mailman/lists/jdtest/digest.mbox: >>iso-8859-15 > >issue. It may or may not. You can try running > > cron/senddigests -l jdtest > >manually as the mailman user to see if it's fixed. Sorry - I forgot to mention that I had run senddigests (exactly as cron does - there are as yet no real users of any list, so testing is easy): it gave no warnings and it did send a digest to a subscriber that I had set to receive digests. The only strange thing I now notice is that even if the digest consists of messages that were all originally in iso-8859-1 encoding, the digest is in usascii, with question marks substituted for non-usascii characters. Is it necessary to use MIME digests in order to get non-usascii characters correct? Otherwise, everything seems to be fine. Again, thanks for your help. (I don't quite understand how I've been able to overlook the error messages from the original failing pythonlib installation attempt, but I must obviously somehow have overlooked them.) -- Jesper Dybdal, Denmark. http://www.dybdal.dk (in Danish). From bernie at fantasyfarm.com Sun Jan 4 18:46:51 2009 From: bernie at fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:46:51 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rejecting on size before content-filters In-Reply-To: References: <4960A1B9.16631.180E5042@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>, Message-ID: <4960AFBB.6941.18450A64@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> On 4 Jan 2009 at 9:08, Mark Sapiro wrote: > First let me say for the benefit of others reading this, that in > general, moving SpamDetect after Hold is not a good idea. However, in > your case, as described in your immediately prior post, where all your > header_filter_rules actions are 'hold' anyway, I think it's OK. > > The lines above won't do what you want. They will move SpamDetect to a > position immediately before Hold. You want it after Hold so you want > > GLOBAL_PIPELINE.remove('SpamDetect') > GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(GLOBAL_PIPELINE.index('Hold') + 1, 'SpamDetect') Another dumb newbie question: as I understand it, if I edit these into my mm_cfg.py it will affect the processing of *ALL* of the mailing lists, not just the one I want the reversed order on. That happens to be OK at the moment, but feels wrong -- is there a way to make this processing- order change *ONLY* apply to the one list at hand? Thanks!! /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:bernie at fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA --> Too many people, too few sheep <-- From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 4 19:03:53 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 10:03:53 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Warnings from senddigests In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jesper Dybdal wrote: > >The only strange thing I now notice is that even if the digest consists >of messages that were all originally in iso-8859-1 encoding, the digest >is in usascii, with question marks substituted for non-usascii >characters. Is it necessary to use MIME digests in order to get >non-usascii characters correct? The digests are prepared in the list's preferred language. This affects which masthead.txt template is used and the translation of i18n strings. It also affects the character set used for the plain format digest which is 'us-ascii' if the list's preferred language is English. If the list's preferred language is Danish, the character set used will be iso-8859-1, but of course all the non-message text will be Danish too. As you suggest, the messages in the MIME format digest are in their original character sets, so this is not an issue there. It is possible to change the character set for English to iso-8859-1, by putting add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'iso-8859-1', 'ltr') in mm_cfg.py. As far as I know, no problems result from doing this. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 4 19:11:40 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 10:11:40 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rejecting on size before content-filters In-Reply-To: <4960AFBB.6941.18450A64@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> Message-ID: Bernie Cosell wrote: > >Another dumb newbie question: as I understand it, if I edit these into my >mm_cfg.py it will affect the processing of *ALL* of the mailing lists, >not just the one I want the reversed order on. That happens to be OK at >the moment, but feels wrong -- is there a way to make this processing- >order change *ONLY* apply to the one list at hand? Your understanding is correct and yes, there is a way to modify the pipeline for a specific list. If the list object has a 'pipeline' attribute, that replaces the GLOBAL_PIPELINE for that list. See the FAQ at for ways to implement this. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rsk at gsp.org Sun Jan 4 20:48:53 2009 From: rsk at gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 14:48:53 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The economics of spam In-Reply-To: References: <20090104132707.GA28652@gsp.org> Message-ID: <20090104194853.GA1503@gsp.org> On Sun, Jan 04, 2009 at 11:15:19AM -0600, J.A. Terranson wrote: > I realise I may well be just another "stupid newbie" in your eyes, so > please explain why something that can enforce a fixed amount of work to > each and every transaction on the SENDER's side is a bad idea by itself. I've covered this in detail elsewhere, and it's not really appropriate for this list, so I'll be brief. I suggest those interested in such schemes peruse the archives of various spam-related mailing lists and newsgroups. Hashcash is an attempt to drown people who own the ocean. Spammers control, in the aggregate, several orders of magnitude more computing horsepower than anyone else. (And could, if they deemed it desirable or necessary, increase that computing pool even further.) I'm talking, of course, about the ~10e8 hijacked systems out there ("zombies") and will note in passing that this is an order-of-magnitude estimate: based on my research as well as that of others, I wouldn't be surprised if the actual number was in the 2x10e8 to 4x10e8 range. [1] The activities that these systems are currently engaged in (sending spam, hosting DNS for spamvertised web sites, hosting spamvertised web sites, harvesting email addresses, conducting DoS attacks, etc.) consume only a small fraction of their available computing capacity -- that is, the overwhelming majority is left over. There is plenty left to maintain the illusion for their former owners [2] that they actually still control these systems -- and there is certainly plenty left to deal with any additional computational burden imposed on an SMTP transaction. Note as well that each time the former owners of these systems upgrade them, their new owners acquire a free performance increase. Similarly, when they replace them, the same poor computing practices (e.g., use of inferior operating systems, careless downloading, missing or incorrect firewall configuration, etc.) that led to the compromise of the old system quite often lead to compromise of the new one, once again resulting in a free performance increase for the new -- that is, the real -- owners. Thus we see that imposing such a requirement will not impede spammers in the slightest -- while it *will* impede nearly everyone else. Note as well that in the several years since it first became clear that spammers (and other abusers) had acquired these resources, no reasons have surfaced to indicate that the problem is getting or will get any better. On the contrary, there is every reason to believe that the problem is getting steadily worse. [3] Spammers/abusers now control an essentially-unbounded pool of computing resources -- not just CPU, but memory, disk, bandwidth, etc. So all that hashcash and other similar schemes would do is burn a lot of CPU in a lot of places...for absolutely nothing. ---Rsk [1] Note that the actual number is not only unknown, but unknowable, since a system which provides no externally-visible evidence of its hijacked state will not be detected. Neither will a system which does provide such evidence, but does not provide it to a suitable detector. Note as well that there is substantial evidence which suggests that hijackers have long since learned to hold many systems in reserve against the possibility that some are lost to them; clearly, this is a basic strategic concept well within their grasp, so it would be surprising if they *didn't*. [2] If someone else can run arbitrary code of their choice on your system, it's not YOUR system any more. [3] It's not necessary to take my or anyone else's word for this. Anyone running a mail server can acquire their own sample by using passive OS fingerprinting, rDNS lookups, and spam logging in combination. From Jan at Bytesmiths.com Sun Jan 4 21:44:07 2009 From: Jan at Bytesmiths.com (Jan Steinman) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 12:44:07 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The economics of spam In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 3 Jan 09, at 18:23, J.A. Terranson wrote: > On Sat, 3 Jan 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> That's not an apt analogy. The issue here is not whether a system can >> be developed that would require mail delivery to be paid for. The > > See: http://www.hashcash.org/ So it seems one way of guaranteeing that one would only receive email that had been paid for is implemented, or at least prototyped. I'm going to look into this hashcash a bit, just out of curiosity. I was thinking more on the level of a new, incompatible SMTP standard, or possibly even at lower levels of the ISO stack -- possibly at the TCP/IP level. Or perhaps as part of IP6 protocol, coming to you Any Day Now. Perhaps I know just enough about the underpinnings of the Internet to see the possibilities, rather than the impossibilities. Sorry if my examples were impractical, but I continue to dis-believe that it would be impossible to implement a system whereby spam could be made uneconomical. :::: Never fear failure! If inevitable, embrace it! :::: :::: Jan Steinman http://www.EcoReality.org :::: From measl at mfn.org Sun Jan 4 21:56:40 2009 From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 14:56:40 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] The economics of spam In-Reply-To: <20090104194853.GA1503@gsp.org> References: <20090104132707.GA28652@gsp.org> <20090104194853.GA1503@gsp.org> Message-ID: Also myt last comment, unless a listowner somehow believes this is appropos for *this* list. You're argument boils down to "it's not wholly effective, and it's super easy for the sspammer to overwhelm, so don't bother using it". The same is true of every blocklist, blacklist, firewall, tarpit, etc., ad infinitum. Hashcash and tools like it are merely that: Tools. You should use your tools where they are most effective. if a tool does *nothing* then it's not a tool, and can be discarded. But a tool that works, just not perfectly, is what we have used to reach foreign bodies (moon, mars), build national infrastructure, etc. Layered tools always work better than unlayered tools. The fact that Mallory will always have superior firepower does not mean you do not go to war using the tools available: you simply apply these tools in an asymmetric manner. hashcash was specifically designed for asymmetric use - you can ask for anywhere from zero to infinite work from each connection,m based solely on your individual criteria. If it's a connection on a whitelist, you can ask for zero work, while also asking for highly significant (computationally speaking) work from unknown connections. Since the work is all done by the connection initiator, this scales well, and meets it's design goal of simply applying the most interference to those who have the highest likelyhood of being unwanted. To dismiss this out of hand as the work of "clueless newbies" shows a certain bias. You may not *like* the idea, but HashCash is certainly not "clueless newbie" material. Look at the people who worked on this. //Alif -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin_at_mfn.org 0xpgp_key_mgmt_is_broken-dont_bother "Never belong to any party, always oppose privileged classes and public plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty." Joseph Pulitzer 1907 Speech From rsk at gsp.org Sun Jan 4 22:21:48 2009 From: rsk at gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 16:21:48 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The economics of spam In-Reply-To: References: <20090104132707.GA28652@gsp.org> <20090104194853.GA1503@gsp.org> Message-ID: <20090104212148.GA23658@gsp.org> On Sun, Jan 04, 2009 at 02:56:40PM -0600, J.A. Terranson wrote: > You're argument boils down to "it's not wholly effective, [snip] Actually, my primary argument is that it has/would have zero effect. There's no point in deploying something that the enemy completely defeated years ago. My secondary argument, which I didn't bother to articulate here, but have gone into elsewhere, is that it may well make the spam and related abuse problem *worse*. (One of the most common mistakes made by those proposing anti-spam measures is that they presume the enemy will passively or actively accomodate those measures, despite decades of evidence suggesting that at best, such measures will encounter passive resistance, and at worse, they'll be actively subverted to suit the enemy's purposes.) ---Rsk From Jan at Bytesmiths.com Mon Jan 5 00:56:42 2009 From: Jan at Bytesmiths.com (Jan Steinman) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 15:56:42 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The economics of spam In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <69CCF3AF-B154-42AF-BCAD-472E59634B5E@Bytesmiths.com> > From: Rich Kulawiec > > On Sat, Jan 03, 2009 at 02:52:21PM -0800, Jan Steinman wrote: >> No, it is based upon the idea that a system could be implemented >> whereby >> it would be impossible to avoid the payment. > > This idiotic idea... the wishful thinking of clueless newbies... one > of the very stupidest anti-spam ideas... debunking of this nonsense... Is it really necessary to take this arrogant and abusive tone? If you are trying to convince others of your position, I fear the only thing you're convincing me of is your close-mindedness and utter unwillingness to consider different ways of thinking, and I'm afraid I tend to write off everything such people say. If you don't really care about convincing others of your position, why not just sit on your hands and let us "clueless newbies" (at least one of whom has been doing UNIX sysadmin and SMTP and TCP/IP programming for 30 years) make fools of ourselves? You haven't really explained anything -- just called people names. :::: Freedom of the commons brings ruin to all. -- Garrett Hardin :::: :::: Jan Steinman (a fossil-fuel free zone!) :::: From brad at shub-internet.org Mon Jan 5 02:16:50 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:16:50 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The economics of spam In-Reply-To: <20090104132707.GA28652@gsp.org> References: <20090104132707.GA28652@gsp.org> Message-ID: <49615F82.9050604@shub-internet.org> on 1/4/09 7:27 AM, Rich Kulawiec said: > This idiotic idea resurfaces periodically (see "hashcash" and other > similar products of the wishful thinking of clueless newbies [1]). > It is one of the very stupidest anti-spam ideas -- and there's a lot > of competition for that "honor", unfortunately. [2] Personally, I'd add SPF to that list. > I suggest that > you refer to the archives of the spam-l and irtf-asrg mailing lists > for a quite thorough debunking of this nonsense by the most senior and > experienced people working in the field. Which is where discussions regarding spam belong. Except when related to the anti-spam tools that Mailman provides, this subject is off-topic for this list. -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From brad at shub-internet.org Mon Jan 5 02:20:13 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:20:13 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The economics of spam In-Reply-To: References: <20090104132707.GA28652@gsp.org> Message-ID: <4961604D.9030706@shub-internet.org> on 1/4/09 11:15 AM, J.A. Terranson said: > Hascash is another of the various forms of tarpitting, which also does > not stop anyone, but it does slow it down, and every little bit helps. This subject is off-topic for this list. Please consult the archives of spam-l and the ASRG, and if you still have anything left to say on the subject, then post your messages on one of those lists. -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From brad at shub-internet.org Mon Jan 5 02:23:28 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:23:28 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The economics of spam In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49616110.1070809@shub-internet.org> on 1/4/09 2:44 PM, Jan Steinman said: > Perhaps I know just enough about the underpinnings of the Internet to > see the possibilities, rather than the impossibilities. Sorry if my > examples were impractical, but I continue to dis-believe that it would > be impossible to implement a system whereby spam could be made > uneconomical. This subject is off-topic for this list. Please see the archives of the spam-l and ASRG mailing lists, and if you have any further questions or issues you'd like to discuss, then post your messages to one of them. -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From abcloans05 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 3 19:41:06 2009 From: abcloans05 at yahoo.com (abcloans05 at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:41:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman mailing list members limit? Message-ID: <325706.29512.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello, I'd like to know if there's a limit on how many members I can have? I have around 2,400 members and when I send an e-mail only few get it. ? Thank you, Jen From john at swajime.com Sun Jan 4 01:30:10 2009 From: john at swajime.com (John Wesley Simpson Hibbs) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 18:30:10 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic bounce processing; listname-bounces vs. listname-bounces+XXXX In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1231029010.19796.162.camel@ezekiel.swajime.com> On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 08:36 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > John Wesley Simpson Hibbs wrote: > > >Our mailing lists had been processing bounces correctly for quite some > >time. > > > >For some reason though, this has stopped functioning properly. > > > Did you just upgrade to Mailman 2.1.11? No... we are still on 2.1.5 > Is it only password reminders that you are seeing as unrecognized > bounces? No... I've appended one that was not a password reminder to the end of this post. > There are two things going on now. The password reminder wasn't VERP'd > because this is controlled by VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS which is a > separate setting in mm_cfg.py from those that control VERPing of list > messages. I just now appended (per your advise) the following to mm_cfg.py: VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes I then did "service mailman restart" and sent a test message through. Still no +VERP in the list-bounces at . This is rather annoying, especially since I went to a lot of trouble getting qmail to deliver the list-bounces+VERP to mailman in the first place, and things were working for quite a while... Any more suggestions? john > However, upon looking closer, I see that this probably isn't what's > going on here, because the forward to the site list owner as above is > not wrapped in an "unrecognized bounce" message. > > I tried running that message through the current recognizers, and it is > recognized, so now it looks to me as if: > > 1) you have an older Mailman that doesn't recognize that particular > bounce, and > > 2) You have not set "VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes" in mm_cfg.py. > > Actually, It is a good thing you saw this unrecognized bounce. Had it > been recognized, it would have been ignored as the user probably isn't > a member of the site list. > > What happens in these cases is a list member sets delivery off for some > reason and then forgets about the list. Then the address dies and the > only mail to the address is the monthly password reminder which even > if it bounces and is recognized, never removes the dead address from > the list of which it is a member. =============== >Subject: Uncaught bounce notification >From: mailman-bounces at example.net >To: list-owner at example.net >Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:12:01 -0600 >Sender: mailman-bounces at example.net > >The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce >format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted >from it. This mailing list has been configured to send all >unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s). > >For more information see: >http://lists.example.net/mailman/admin/list/bounce > > >Return-Path: <> >Delivered-To: 9-list-bounces at example.net >Date: 20 Dec 2008 22:11:56 -0000 >From: MAILER-DAEMON at subscriber.example.net >To: list-bounces at example.net >Subject: failure notice >We're sorry. There's a problem with the e-mail address(es) you're trying >to send to. Please verify the address(es) and try again. If you continue >to have problems, please contact Customer Support at (nnn) nnn-nnnn. > >: >child status 100...The e-mail message could not be delivered because >the user's mailfolder is full. > >--- Below this line is a copy of the message. > >Return-Path: >Return-Path: >Delivered-To: 9-list at radiolists.net >Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:11:34 -0500 >From: "Poster" >To: LIST >Subject: [LIST] _________ >X-BeenThere: list at example.net >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >Reply-To: LIST >List-Id: LIST >Sender: list-bounces at example.net >Errors-To: list-bounces at example.net > From john at swajime.com Sun Jan 4 02:21:48 2009 From: john at swajime.com (John Wesley Simpson Hibbs) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 19:21:48 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] {Disarmed} Re: Automatic bounce processing; listname-bouncesvs. listname-bounces+XXXX In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1231032109.19796.172.camel@ezekiel.swajime.com> On Sat, 2009-01-03 at 17:11 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > John Wesley Simpson Hibbs wrote: > > > >I just now appended (per your advise) the following to mm_cfg.py: > > > > VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes > > VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes > > VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes > > > >I then did "service mailman restart" and sent a test message through. > >Still no +VERP in the list-bounces at . > > > I assume you also have > > VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 > > in mm_cfg.py. That's the important one. > ... > So it looks like for some reason, Mailman is not VERPing. Assuming you > do have > > VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 > > in mm_cfg.py, and it didn't somehow get lost, I don't know what would > make Mailman behave this way. > That was the culprit... I see my +VERP's now, although they look somewhat different from what I remember. Now I see my address in the VERP, where before I saw long numeric strings. At any rate, this looks like it's fixed now. I'll post back when I know for sure. Thanks very much Mark, -- John Wesley Simpson Hibbs SwaJime's Cove From brad at shub-internet.org Mon Jan 5 02:34:23 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:34:23 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman mailing list members limit? In-Reply-To: <325706.29512.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <325706.29512.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4961639F.4040806@shub-internet.org> on 1/3/09 12:41 PM, abcloans05 at yahoo.com said: > I'd like to know if there's a limit on how many members I can have? See FAQ 1.15 in the Mailman FAQ Wiki at . > I have around 2,400 members and when I send an e-mail only few get it. That sounds like a different problem. My first guess would be that your provider puts a limit on how many messages you can send per hour or per day, and that is affecting your mailing lists. In that case, you would need to talk to your provider and get them to raise or remove that limit, although doing so might require that you get an upgrade to a more expensive type of account. Alternately, you may be able to find another provider that is more accomodating. There is a more detailed set of debugging steps outlined in FAQ 4.78 in the Mailman FAQ Wiki at . -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From stephen at xemacs.org Mon Jan 5 04:36:45 2009 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:36:45 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The economics of spam In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <874p0eifua.fsf@xemacs.org> Jan Steinman writes: > Perhaps I know just enough about the underpinnings of the Internet to > see the possibilities, rather than the impossibilities. Sorry if my > examples were impractical, but I continue to dis-believe that it would > be impossible to implement a system whereby spam could be made > uneconomical. On the contrary, it's very easy to make spam uneconomical. Just make all email uneconomical. The trick is to get a clean bath without losing the baby, which may be possible, but not by any of the schemes proposed in this thread, nor a host of related ones. At the risk of incurring Brad's wrath, let me point out (I think for the second time in this thread) that policies that make it hard for unregistered parties to have mail delivered have a decidedly negative effect on GNU Mailman. Long before the spammers feel pain, many lists like this one will be long past feeling any pain. Even worse, Mailman-Users might survive, but can you really see an ISP client going to Customer Service with "Hi, I'm a member of the PASS (Physically Abused Spouses and Siblings) mailing list. Will you please let it through?" Survival of the fittest is all very well, but I don't think that the winner of the Prize for greatest contribution to society in open source (or something like that, congratulations again, Barry, Mark, Tokio, et cie.!) will be very happy about advocating measures that discriminate against use of Mailman by non-technical volunteers for charitable purposes. No clearly acceptable proposal has been made to deal with these important uses of email (to me and many others, YMMV). By the way, my day job is Practitioner of the Dismal Science, and as a professional economist I can assure you that this particular idea, while not "dumb" in my opinion, rather the reverse, has been thoroughly debunked (see other references). It is what we call an example of the "Theorem" of the Second Best: while removing one commons (or other market failure) to get a perfect market economy always makes things "better for everybody", fixing one market failure to get an economy that still has market failures "usually" makes things worse. (The phrases in quotation marks are trolls: as stated, it's not a theorem, "better for everybody" is defined in a very peculiar fashion, and "usually" is deliberately ambiguous. So don't call me on them, as stated it's just a sort of proverb that the pros need to keep in mind to avoid embarrassing themselves in front of their peers.) From pjhealy at healyville.com Mon Jan 5 07:29:35 2009 From: pjhealy at healyville.com (Patrick Healy) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 01:29:35 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Alternate Port question Message-ID: <000301c96efe$fa8b6e00$efa24a00$@com> Hi, I'm using Mailman v2.1.5. Originally lists were created using port 8181 as the default port. Later port 80 was freed up and I reset (so I thought) everything to port 80. However, whenever something is went out on the list, it still continues to show port 8181 as the port. Any thoughts on how/where to change this? Thanks! Pat Healy From fil at rezo.net Mon Jan 5 11:06:34 2009 From: fil at rezo.net (Fil) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:06:34 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch for use of Postfix VERP support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, I'm trying to document the VERP stuff, and I'm at a loss finding where scripts/bounces exploits the VERP information on bounces. scripts/bounces mentions VERP but does not actually process the info -- Fil From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 5 17:20:48 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:20:48 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Alternate Port question In-Reply-To: <000301c96efe$fa8b6e00$efa24a00$@com> Message-ID: Patrick Healy wrote: > >I'm using Mailman v2.1.5. Originally lists were created using port 8181 as >the default port. Later port 80 was freed up and I reset (so I thought) >everything to port 80. However, whenever something is went out on the list, >it still continues to show port 8181 as the port. You probably have something like DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s:8181/mailman/' in mm:cfg.py. At least that's the 'right way' to do it, but you may have something like DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.example.com:8181' instead. In either case, remove the :8181. Then you'll need to restart Mailman and update the actual web_page_url attribute of the lists which you do with fix_url. Run Mailman's bin/fix_url.py for instructions. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 5 17:28:02 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:28:02 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch for use of Postfix VERP support In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fil wrote: > >I'm trying to document the VERP stuff, and I'm at a loss finding where >scripts/bounces exploits the VERP information on bounces. >scripts/bounces mentions VERP but does not actually process the info All scripts/bounces does is queue the bounce message for BounceRunner. The actual processing of the bounce and detection of VERP is in the BounceRunner._dispose() method in Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From b19141 at anl.gov Mon Jan 5 18:33:32 2009 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:33:32 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] FAQ: How To Rename a Mailman List Message-ID: <20090105173333.1032B175E4@britaine.cis.anl.gov> I need to rename two Mailman 2.1.9 lists. The FAQ 4.70 gives explicit instructions, but it does not mention changing the /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases (location on my Unbutu system) file to reflect the new name and then running the newaliases command. Should this be added to the FAQ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 5 18:58:46 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 09:58:46 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] FAQ: How To Rename a Mailman List In-Reply-To: <20090105173333.1032B175E4@britaine.cis.anl.gov> Message-ID: Barry Finkel wrote: >I need to rename two Mailman 2.1.9 lists. The FAQ 4.70 gives >explicit instructions, but it does not mention changing the > > /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases (location on my Unbutu system) > >file to reflect the new name and then running the newaliases command. >Should this be added to the FAQ? The FAQ currently says: Finally, if your MTA uses aliases for mailman lists rather than some process that automatically understands list names from the contents of the lists/ directory, you will have to update your aliases. If you do this manually, edit your aliases to change 'oldlist' to 'newlist' (a total of 2 changes per alias for 10 aliases), and then run 'newaliases' or whatever command rebuilds your alias database. It you have Postfix/Mailman integration, just run bin/genaliases. If you think this is somehow inadequate or not prominent enough, it's a wiki. Feel free to edit it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From danm at prime.gushi.org Mon Jan 5 20:10:38 2009 From: danm at prime.gushi.org (Dan Mahoney, System Admin) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 14:10:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] repurposing the -request alias on an autogenerated aliases file? Message-ID: Here at work, we've found that mailman's "-request" alias has stomped another already-existing function (under our previous list, we used that for administrative requests, and on this particular list, that's not negotiable -- it needs to duplicate the function of xxx-owner). However, we're using automatic aliases. Is there some way to quell or suppress the creation (or re-creation) of that particular alias (for one list only), without having to go to manual aliases? That is to say, if I hand-edited both $mailman/data/aliases and aliases.db (by rebuilding it from the new aliases file) -- would mailman revert it on me the next time I created a list? -Dan Mahoney -- "Let me tell you something about regrowing your dead wife Lucy, Harry. It's probably illegal, potentially dangerous, and definitely crazy." -Harry nods- Vincent Spano, as Boris in "Creator". --------Dan Mahoney-------- Techie, Sysadmin, WebGeek Gushi on efnet/undernet IRC ICQ: 13735144 AIM: LarpGM Site: http://www.gushi.org --------------------------- From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 5 20:21:32 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:21:32 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] repurposing the -request alias on an autogeneratedaliases file? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote: > >That is to say, if I hand-edited both $mailman/data/aliases and aliases.db >(by rebuilding it from the new aliases file) -- would mailman revert it on >me the next time I created a list? No. It will only revert if you run Mailman's bin/genaliases to regenerate all the aliases. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Mon Jan 5 20:22:16 2009 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 19:22:16 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] repurposing the -request alias on an autogenerated aliases file? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090105192216.GQ18966@amyl.org.uk> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 02:10:38PM -0500, Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote: > However, we're using automatic aliases. Is there some way to quell or > suppress the creation (or re-creation) of that particular alias (for one > list only), without having to go to manual aliases? Check the order of your (MTA) routers, and add something there? It's what I do on a couple of lists, where we wanted to lazily over-ride things. And check on delivery, using your MTA's diag tools, obviously. -- ``Electronic voting is one of those things like unguarded plutonium stores in Russia: people are only calm about it because they don't know about it. The rational, informed response would be to run around in circles, howling.'' (Harry Hutton, on the 2004 Venezuelan recall referendum) From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Mon Jan 5 20:24:56 2009 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 19:24:56 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] repurposing the -request alias on an autogenerated aliases file? In-Reply-To: <20090105192216.GQ18966@amyl.org.uk> References: <20090105192216.GQ18966@amyl.org.uk> Message-ID: <20090105192456.GR18966@amyl.org.uk> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 07:22:16PM +0000, Adam McGreggor wrote: > On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 02:10:38PM -0500, Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote: > > However, we're using automatic aliases. Is there some way to quell or > > suppress the creation (or re-creation) of that particular alias (for one > > list only), without having to go to manual aliases? > > Check the order of your (MTA) routers, and add something there? It's what I > do on a couple of lists, where we wanted to lazily over-ride things. > > And check on delivery, using your MTA's diag tools, obviously. /me learns to read... From b19141 at anl.gov Mon Jan 5 20:59:58 2009 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:59:58 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] FAQ: How To Rename a Mailman List In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Mark Sapiro ' dated: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 09:58:46 -0800 Message-ID: <20090105195958.EA5D7175E4@britaine.cis.anl.gov> Barry Finkel wrote: >>I need to rename two Mailman 2.1.9 lists. The FAQ 4.70 gives >>explicit instructions, but it does not mention changing the >> >> /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases (location on my Unbutu system) >> >>file to reflect the new name and then running the newaliases command. >>Should this be added to the FAQ? And Mark Sapiro replied: >The FAQ currently says: > > Finally, if your MTA uses aliases for mailman lists rather than > some process that automatically understands list names from the > contents of the lists/ directory, you will have to update your > aliases. If you do this manually, edit your aliases to change > 'oldlist' to 'newlist' (a total of 2 changes per alias for 10 > aliases), and then run 'newaliases' or whatever command rebuilds > your alias database. It you have Postfix/Mailman integration, > just run bin/genaliases. > >If you think this is somehow inadequate or not prominent enough, it's a >wiki. Feel free to edit it. I do not know how I missed that piece. Thanks. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From khosrow.ebrahimpour at ec.gc.ca Mon Jan 5 23:12:18 2009 From: khosrow.ebrahimpour at ec.gc.ca (Khosrow Ebrahimpour) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:12:18 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unknown encoding error Message-ID: <200901051713.00573.khosrow.ebrahimpour@ec.gc.ca> Hello list, A week or so ago I ran across this problem on one of our mailing lists: A user had sent an email with an apparently bad subject line. This has caused mailman to stop delivering emails for that specific mailning list. Here's the error from the logfile: --- Jan 05 21:25:10 2009 (23055) Uncaught runner exception: unknown encoding: Re: DDS 26073 : Imap - installation d Jan 05 21:25:10 2009 (23055) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 91, in process send_digests(mlist, mboxfp) File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in send_digests send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp) File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306, in send_i18n_digests msg = scrubber(mlist, msg) File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 240, in process url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir) File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 373, in save_attachment fnext = os.path.splitext(msg.get_filename(''))[1] File "/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line 731, in get_filename return unicode(newvalue[2], newvalue[0] or 'us-ascii') LookupError: unknown encoding: Re: DDS 26073 : Imap - installation d Jan 05 21:25:10 2009 (23055) SHUNTING: 1231190705.198385+f75914e7ce7a9daf6e70914e0ed49923a47d2dd1 --- The full subject line should be: RE: DDS 26073 : Imap - installation d'application 'vacation' so I think the apostrophe is causing havoc here... I have searched mailing list and the search engines, and it looks like this error was a problem for people but has been solved in subsequent versions of mailman (we are running 2.1.5 on Debian Sarge). What I haven't been able to find out is how to purge out the offending email, and continue life as normal until we upgrade to Etch! I should say that I have tried removing the offending file from $MAILMANDIR/qfiles/shunt and running "unshunt", but nothing changed. Any suggestions are most appreciated. /Khosrow -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 6 17:36:21 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 08:36:21 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unknown encoding error In-Reply-To: <200901051713.00573.khosrow.ebrahimpour@ec.gc.ca> References: <200901051713.00573.khosrow.ebrahimpour@ec.gc.ca> Message-ID: <49638885.6010602@msapiro.net> Khosrow Ebrahimpour wrote: > > A week or so ago I ran across this problem on one of our mailing lists: A user > had sent an email with an apparently bad subject line. This has caused > mailman to stop delivering emails for that specific mailning list. Here's the > error from the logfile: > > --- > > Jan 05 21:25:10 2009 (23055) Uncaught runner exception: unknown encoding: Re: > DDS 26073 : Imap - installation d > Jan 05 21:25:10 2009 (23055) Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop > self._onefile(msg, msgdata) > File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile > keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) > File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in > _dispose > more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline) > File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in > _dopipeline > sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata) > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 91, in process > send_digests(mlist, mboxfp) > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in > send_digests > send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp) > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306, in > send_i18n_digests > msg = scrubber(mlist, msg) > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 240, in process > url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir) > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 373, in > save_attachment > fnext = os.path.splitext(msg.get_filename(''))[1] > File "/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line 731, in get_filename > return unicode(newvalue[2], newvalue[0] or 'us-ascii') > LookupError: unknown encoding: Re: DDS 26073 : Imap - installation d > > Jan 05 21:25:10 2009 (23055) SHUNTING: > 1231190705.198385+f75914e7ce7a9daf6e70914e0ed49923a47d2dd1 The message that causes this problem is not the message that is shunted. All the shunted messages are (presumably) valid messages that arrived after the issue started. The problem is that a message was posted to the list and probably delivered normally and stored in the digest.mbox file for the list. Then, eventually, the digest.mbox grew big enough that every subsequent message triggers a digest delivery on size, but the bad message in digest.mbox throws the above exception in the ToDigest handler, and the digest is not produced and the current message is shunted. > The full subject line should be: > > RE: DDS 26073 : Imap - installation d'application 'vacation' > > so I think the apostrophe is causing havoc here... Yes, it is an apostrophe that is the problem, but it is in a 'name' or 'filename' parameter of a Content-Type: or Content-Disposition: header. > I have searched mailing list and the search engines, and it looks like this > error was a problem for people but has been solved in subsequent versions of > mailman (we are running 2.1.5 on Debian Sarge). What I haven't been able to > find out is how to purge out the offending email, and continue life as normal > until we upgrade to Etch! > > I should say that I have tried removing the offending file from > $MAILMANDIR/qfiles/shunt and running "unshunt", but nothing changed. You don't want to remove the shunted files as they are not the problem, and you can't successfully unshunt until you fix the digest.mbox. You need to edit the lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox. You can edit it by hand or with an MUA like mutt for example. The offending message has an RFC 2231 enncoded 'name' or 'filename' parameter with an apostrophe in the name. It will look something like Content-Disposition: attachment; filename*0*='charset'lang'text.................................... filename*1=more............................. And text will have an apostrophe. You can simply remove those parameters (filename and/or name) or delete the entire message. You can also just delete the lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox file, but then you'd lose those messages from the digest. After fixing the digest.mbox, you can run bin/unshunt to finish processing the shunted messages. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rsk at gsp.org Tue Jan 6 22:30:15 2009 From: rsk at gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 16:30:15 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The economics of spam In-Reply-To: <69CCF3AF-B154-42AF-BCAD-472E59634B5E@Bytesmiths.com> References: <69CCF3AF-B154-42AF-BCAD-472E59634B5E@Bytesmiths.com> Message-ID: <20090106213015.GA10746@gsp.org> On Sun, Jan 04, 2009 at 03:56:42PM -0800, Jan Steinman wrote: > Is it really necessary to take this arrogant and abusive tone? Consider it exasperation at seeing this FUSSP brought up yet *again*, long after it was staked through the heart and buried at a crossroads. Please see: http://www.rhyolite.com/anti-spam/you-might-be.html#e-postage for background on and examples of FUSSPs. If you (rhetorical you) want to self-educate and to potentially apply yourself to addressing the problem, then by all means, please do. But this list isn't appropriate; I suggest joining some/all of these: spam-l (via listserv at peach.ease.lsoft.com) asrg (via asrg-request at irtf.org) spamtools (via spamtools-request at lists.abuse.net) AND reading most of their archives, especially spam-l, before attempting to promulgate your favorite tactic/strategy. (I'm not the only one with a short fuse when it comes to dealing with the same known-failed idea for the 47th time, although I will readily admit that some others show far more patience than I do. Maybe they have more -- or better -- brandy.) ---Rsk p.s. As a small courtesy, and by way of compensation, let me try to provide some minor assistance to potential future contributors by enumerating a few of the fundamental design errors that immediately doom some "anti-spam" ideas: - redefining abuse - redirecting abuse - amplifying abuse - fighting abuse with abuse - failure to consider scaling issues ("what if everyone did this?") - failure to consider adoption issues ("what if everyone didn't do this?") - failure to consider counter-measures ("what if spammers read RFCs?") - generating yet more SMTP traffic - presumption of spammer honesty/compliance/acquiescence - allowing unknown third parties to generate significant amounts of outbound traffic to destinations of their choosing - reliance on legislation and/or law enforcement - forcing effort and costs of abuse control onto third parties - drastic underestimation of spammer resources and abilities - presumption of secure network endpoints There's more, of course, but a few minutes' contemplation of these is sufficient to understand why some approaches (e.g., opt-out, SPF, C/R, SAV, BlueFrog, and yes, e-postage) are not going to work regardless of how they're implemented, and why attempts to implement them make (or would make) the spam/abuse problem considerably worse. From danm at prime.gushi.org Wed Jan 7 22:23:47 2009 From: danm at prime.gushi.org (Dan Mahoney, System Admin) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:23:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email subscription not working Message-ID: Hey all, I'm hitting a little snag. Email subscribe isn't doing anything. Postfix delivers the email to mailman, but then as far as I can tell, nothing more happens with it. Where would be the best place to debug this from a mailman perspective? Jan 7 21:05:34 lister postfix/qmgr[97071]: DDFD010E528: from=, size=2716, nrcpt=1 (queue active) Jan 7 21:05:35 lister postfix/local[38795]: DDFD010E528: to=, relay=local, delay=0.18, delays=0.01/0/0/0.17, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join testing) Jan 7 21:05:35 lister postfix/qmgr[97071]: DDFD010E528: removed And that's where it stops. The address doesn't show in any logs or anything from that point forward. Anything obvious I should be checking? Perhaps the possibility that the "to" address is getting altered in transit? Does mailman log discarded subscription messages? Is there a debug option? -Dan -- --------Dan Mahoney-------- Techie, Sysadmin, WebGeek Gushi on efnet/undernet IRC ICQ: 13735144 AIM: LarpGM Site: http://www.gushi.org --------------------------- From ljanofsk at umd.edu Thu Jan 8 02:34:34 2009 From: ljanofsk at umd.edu (ljanofsk at umd.edu) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 20:34:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listserv error Message-ID: <20090107203434.BVU26435@po2.mail.umd.edu> To whom this may concern, My fraternity is having a problem accessing our listserv membership online. I am the administrator for the group and when I go to the website to add/drop e-mail addresses, it tells me it doesn't exist. This is the first time this issue has come up and if you have any suggestions to fix this,I would greatly appreciate your help. Here is the URL that I go to: http://mail.zetapsiumd.com/mailman/admin/brothers_zetapsiumd.com Thank you for your assistance. Sincerely, Lee Janofsky From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 8 18:07:28 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 09:07:28 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listserv error In-Reply-To: <20090107203434.BVU26435@po2.mail.umd.edu> Message-ID: wrote: > >My fraternity is having a problem accessing our listserv membership online. I am the administrator for the group and when I go to the website to add/drop e-mail addresses, it tells me it doesn't exist. This is the first time this issue has come up and if you have any suggestions to fix this,I would greatly appreciate your help. > >Here is the URL that I go to: >http://mail.zetapsiumd.com/mailman/admin/brothers_zetapsiumd.com First, you are off on the wrong foot by referring to a Mailman list as a "listserv". I know that use of Listserv(r) as a generic term to refer to an email list or email list management software is ubiquitious, and I'm just pissing in the wind to fight it, but Listserv(r) is a registered trademark[1] owned by the developer of a particular email list management product, and it shouldn't be used generically. Second, The Mailman installation at mail.zetapsiumd.com appears to be cPanel. See the FAQ at . Finally, it appears that your list has been deleted. There's no way we can help you with that. You will have to talk to your hosting service. [1] -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Thu Jan 8 20:52:36 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:52:36 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing the admin login page... Message-ID: <49665984.3070801@riverviewtech.net> What file(s) would I need to edit if I wanted to customize the admin login page? I'm wanting to add an onLoad value to the BODY tag (and related name tag to the form) to the web page that is generated to automatically focus the password box so that I can go to the web page and enter the password with out touching the mouse (or tabbing). Grant. . . . From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 8 21:07:21 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:07:21 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email subscription not working In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote: >Hey all, I'm hitting a little snag. Email subscribe isn't doing anything. > >Postfix delivers the email to mailman, but then as far as I can tell, >nothing more happens with it. > >Where would be the best place to debug this from a mailman perspective? > >Jan 7 21:05:34 lister postfix/qmgr[97071]: DDFD010E528: >from=, size=2716, nrcpt=1 (queue >active) >Jan 7 21:05:35 lister postfix/local[38795]: DDFD010E528: >to=, relay=local, delay=0.18, >delays=0.01/0/0/0.17, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: >/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join testing) >Jan 7 21:05:35 lister postfix/qmgr[97071]: DDFD010E528: removed > >And that's where it stops. The address doesn't show in any logs or >anything from that point forward. The above says Postfix successfully piped the mail to the wrapper which presumably invoked the 'join' script to queue the mail in the 'commands' queue. >From there it is processed by CommandRunner. Step 1) is CommandRunner running or is the message still sitting in qfiles/commands ? >Anything obvious I should be checking? Perhaps the possibility that the >"to" address is getting altered in transit? Does mailman log discarded >subscription messages? Is there a debug option? The message got delivered to the correct address according to Postfix. Messages with precedence 'bulk', 'junk' or 'list' are discarded, but the discard is logged in Mailman's vette log with a message like Precedence: xxx message discarded by: testing-request at example.com If you have an autoresponder set for requests to this list, the message will be autoresponded to per the autoresponder settings and logged in the vette log as "replied and discard". Also look for messages in Mailman's error (and other) logs with timestamp within a few seconds of Jan 7 21:05:35. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 8 21:16:46 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:16:46 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing the admin login page... In-Reply-To: <49665984.3070801@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: Grant Taylor wrote: >What file(s) would I need to edit if I wanted to customize the admin >login page? > >I'm wanting to add an onLoad value to the BODY tag (and related name tag >to the form) to the web page that is generated to automatically focus >the password box so that I can go to the web page and enter the password >with out touching the mouse (or tabbing). The admlogin.html template. And if you're going to do it, you may also want to do the private.html template for private archive login. See the FAQ at for information on the proper places to put edited versions of these templates so they won't be overwritten in an upgrade. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Thu Jan 8 21:42:17 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:42:17 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing the admin login page... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49666529.2070109@riverviewtech.net> On 01/08/09 14:16, Mark Sapiro wrote: > The admlogin.html template. And if you're going to do it, you may also > want to do the private.html template for private archive login. Thank you. That did the trick. > See the FAQ at for information on the > proper places to put edited versions of these templates so they won't > be overwritten in an upgrade. *nod* Pursuant to that advice, I copied templates/en/admlogin.html to templates/site/en/admlogin.html and made the following changes. Note, I did not previously have the site specific files, do not make the copy if you already have custom files or you will loose your customizations. Don't forget to make sure that Mailman has permissions to the custom files and the directories they are in. - Added a the following onLoad to the page's BODY tag. onLoad="document.LoginForm.adminpw.focus()" - Added the following name to the page's FORM tag. NAME="LoginForm" Thus when the page load, it executes the onLoad JavaScript statement and sets the focus on the password input box. :) Grant. . . . P.S. Tip of the hat for the way that Mailman has split up the locations that you can make customizations. From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 9 00:30:46 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 15:30:46 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unknown encoding error In-Reply-To: <200901081723.38946.khosrow.ebrahimpour@ec.gc.ca> Message-ID: Khosrow Ebrahimpour wrote: > >A more general question. Has this issue been fixed in subsequent releases of >mailman? We are running 2.1.5 on Sarge at the moment. I suspect that we will >be seeing this error occasionally, although I'm surprised it hasn't been an >issue so far. Yes. The problem of unanticipated exceptions in digest processing stopping a list was fixed in 2.1.7. The problem of apostrophes in RFC 2231 encoded parameters was fixed in the underlying Python email library. I don't remember exactly when, but I'm pretty sure it was fixed in email 2.5.8 which has shipped with Mailman starting with 2.1.9. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From khosrow.ebrahimpour at ec.gc.ca Thu Jan 8 23:23:38 2009 From: khosrow.ebrahimpour at ec.gc.ca (Khosrow Ebrahimpour) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:23:38 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unknown encoding error In-Reply-To: <49638885.6010602@msapiro.net> References: <200901051713.00573.khosrow.ebrahimpour@ec.gc.ca> <49638885.6010602@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <200901081723.38946.khosrow.ebrahimpour@ec.gc.ca> On 6 January 2009 11:36, Mark Sapiro wrote: > You need to edit the lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox. You can edit it by hand > or with an MUA like mutt for example. > Thank you Mark. That solution worked perfectly. I modified the digest.mbox and changed only the offending attachment content-types. After running "unshunt" everything behaved nicely. A more general question. Has this issue been fixed in subsequent releases of mailman? We are running 2.1.5 on Sarge at the moment. I suspect that we will be seeing this error occasionally, although I'm surprised it hasn't been an issue so far. Cheers, Khosrow From tbraem at vub.ac.be Fri Jan 9 14:36:31 2009 From: tbraem at vub.ac.be (Thijs Braem) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 14:36:31 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] stripping attachments and sending the URL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <496752DF.1060303@vub.ac.be> Hello everybody, On http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3844 (May 1st, 2000) I read the following: "For example, there is a project contributor who has implemented a MIME attachment scanner module which can be dropped into the pipeline. This module can strip attachments from the message, post the attachments to an external archive (either the file system or a WebDAV server) and then rewrite the outgoing message to include a URL to the attachment instead of the attachment text." This is exactly the functionality I'm looking for! Does anyone have an idea where to find this module, or how this can be done otherwise? Thanks in advance, -- Thijs Braem Onderwijstechnoloog Onderwijsvernieuwing & OnderwijsServiceCentrum Vrije Universiteit Brussel Tel : +32.2629.1249 E-mail: tbraem at vub.ac.be http://osc.vub.ac.be/ -- "If you believe in freedom of speech, you believe in freedom of speech for views you don't like. Goebbels was in favor of freedom of speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're in favor of freedom of speech, that means you're in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise." -- Noam Chomsky From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 9 17:42:26 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 08:42:26 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] stripping attachments and sending the URL In-Reply-To: <496752DF.1060303@vub.ac.be> Message-ID: Thijs Braem wrote: > >On http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3844 (May 1st, 2000) I read the >following: > >"For example, there is a project contributor who has implemented a MIME >attachment scanner module which can be dropped into the pipeline. This >module can strip attachments from the message, post the attachments to >an external archive (either the file system or a WebDAV server) and then >rewrite the outgoing message to include a URL to the attachment instead >of the attachment text." > >This is exactly the functionality I'm looking for! Does anyone have an >idea where to find this module, or how this can be done otherwise? Starting with Mailman 2.1.6, there is a scrub_nondigest setting in the Non-digest options section of the web admin interface. This will cause non text/plain parts of the message to be removed and replaced by links to the archive where they are stored. You don't have a choice of where the "attachments" are stored, but otherwise this is the feature. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From brad at shub-internet.org Fri Jan 9 17:42:49 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 10:42:49 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] stripping attachments and sending the URL In-Reply-To: <496752DF.1060303@vub.ac.be> References: <496752DF.1060303@vub.ac.be> Message-ID: <49677E89.70508@shub-internet.org> Thijs Braem wrote: > "For example, there is a project contributor who has implemented a MIME > attachment scanner module which can be dropped into the pipeline. This > module can strip attachments from the message, post the attachments to > an external archive (either the file system or a WebDAV server) and then > rewrite the outgoing message to include a URL to the attachment instead > of the attachment text." > > This is exactly the functionality I'm looking for! Does anyone have an > idea where to find this module, or how this can be done otherwise? Dunno about the WebDAV part, but the rest can be done by simply enabling attachment stripping for non-digest messages. -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From danm at prime.gushi.org Fri Jan 9 18:27:56 2009 From: danm at prime.gushi.org (Dan Mahoney, System Admin) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 12:27:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email subscription not working In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Jan 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote: > >> Hey all, I'm hitting a little snag. Email subscribe isn't doing anything. >> >> Postfix delivers the email to mailman, but then as far as I can tell, >> nothing more happens with it. >> >> Where would be the best place to debug this from a mailman perspective? >> >> Jan 7 21:05:34 lister postfix/qmgr[97071]: DDFD010E528: >> from=, size=2716, nrcpt=1 (queue >> active) >> Jan 7 21:05:35 lister postfix/local[38795]: DDFD010E528: >> to=, relay=local, delay=0.18, >> delays=0.01/0/0/0.17, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: >> /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join testing) >> Jan 7 21:05:35 lister postfix/qmgr[97071]: DDFD010E528: removed >> >> And that's where it stops. The address doesn't show in any logs or >> anything from that point forward. > > > The above says Postfix successfully piped the mail to the wrapper which > presumably invoked the 'join' script to queue the mail in the > 'commands' queue. > >> From there it is processed by CommandRunner. > > Step 1) is CommandRunner running or is the message still sitting in > qfiles/commands ? I don't see a persistent process with that name, but qfiles/commands is empty. >> Anything obvious I should be checking? Perhaps the possibility that the >> "to" address is getting altered in transit? Does mailman log discarded >> subscription messages? Is there a debug option? > > > The message got delivered to the correct address according to Postfix. > > Messages with precedence 'bulk', 'junk' or 'list' are discarded, but > the discard is logged in Mailman's vette log with a message like > > Precedence: xxx message discarded by: testing-request at example.com This hasn't been logged at all. In fact a grep for the address on all logfiles gives nothing. However, see my next bit... > If you have an autoresponder set for requests to this list, the message > will be autoresponded to per the autoresponder settings and logged in > the vette log as "replied and discard". > > Also look for messages in Mailman's error (and other) logs with > timestamp within a few seconds of Jan 7 21:05:35. Oh here's something: Jan 07 21:05:05 2009 (69945) Uncaught runner exception: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower' Jan 07 21:05:05 2009 (69945) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 114, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 185, in _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 241, in _dispose res.do_command('join') File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 139, in do_command return handler.process(self, args) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py", line 74, in process if digest is None and password.lower() in ('digest', 'nodigest'): AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower' Jan 07 21:05:05 2009 (69945) SHUNTING: 1231362305.1949821+1175967c099dad2a1abd84668491378c9ec3d2f3 Jan 07 21:05:35 2009 (69945) Uncaught runner exception: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower' Jan 07 21:05:35 2009 (69945) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 114, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 185, in _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 241, in _dispose res.do_command('join') File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 139, in do_command return handler.process(self, args) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py", line 74, in process if digest is None and password.lower() in ('digest', 'nodigest'): AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower' Jan 07 21:05:35 2009 (69945) SHUNTING: 1231362335.060303+d4ab606e4d64c835df5f64f7aaff37fe61bee8e8 Jan 07 21:05:47 2009 (69945) Uncaught runner exception: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower' Jan 07 21:05:47 2009 (69945) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 114, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 185, in _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 241, in _dispose res.do_command('join') File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 139, in do_command return handler.process(self, args) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py", line 74, in process if digest is None and password.lower() in ('digest', 'nodigest'): AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower' Known bug? OS is FreeBSD, if it matters. -Dan -- "What's with the server farm down in the basement?" -Spider, Three Skulls Commons at Selden House, 4/15/00 --------Dan Mahoney-------- Techie, Sysadmin, WebGeek Gushi on efnet/undernet IRC ICQ: 13735144 AIM: LarpGM Site: http://www.gushi.org --------------------------- From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 9 18:45:45 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:45:45 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email subscription not working In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote: > >Jan 07 21:05:47 2009 (69945) Uncaught runner exception: 'NoneType' object >has no attribute 'lower' >Jan 07 21:05:47 2009 (69945) Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 114, in _oneloop > self._onefile(msg, msgdata) > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 185, in _onefile > keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 241, in >_dispose > res.do_command('join') > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 139, in >do_command > return handler.process(self, args) > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py", line 74, in >process > if digest is None and password.lower() in ('digest', 'nodigest'): >AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower' > >Known bug? Yes, it is a known bug, introduced in 2.1.10 and fixed in 2.1.11. I had a fleeting thought about that when replying previously, but neglected to mention it. The attached cmd_subscribe.patch.txt will fix it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: cmd_subscribe.patch.txt URL: From arogozin at comcast.net Sat Jan 10 16:33:08 2009 From: arogozin at comcast.net (Alex Rogozin) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 10:33:08 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving existing server to new domain name and new IP another question - broken link References: Message-ID: <0428D9D8249E4C85B1AA3A61F3B6DC0F@bpai.us> Hello List. Question - moved server with Mailman on it from one domain to another, changed ip address and physical location. Changed config files, did withlist -l -r fix_url , and everything works fine except for one little thing - the page titled with link - link still points to the old server name. Any idea where do i fix that? Mailman version 2.1.9 on Centos 5.2 Many Thanks. Alex From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 10 17:58:26 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 08:58:26 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving existing server to new domain name and newIP another question - broken link In-Reply-To: <0428D9D8249E4C85B1AA3A61F3B6DC0F@bpai.us> Message-ID: Alex Rogozin wrote: >Question - moved server with Mailman on it from one domain to another, >changed ip address and physical location. >Changed config files, did withlist -l -r fix_url , and everything works fine >except for one little thing - the page titled with >link - link still points to >the old server name. >Any idea where do i fix that? Those links are in the HTML files in the archive. Some of those files like the table of contents and the current periodic (monthly or ..) indices are rewritten as new posts arrive, and should get rewritten with the correct URL. The listinfo links in older indices and messages will not get rewritten. You have a few choices. 1) Assuming the archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox files are present and complete, rebuild the archives with bin/arch --wipe LISTNAME 2) Edit the HTML files by hand or with a script 3) Live with it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From zszalbot at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 18:02:52 2009 From: zszalbot at gmail.com (Zbigniew Szalbot) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 18:02:52 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving existing server to new domain name and newIP another question - broken link In-Reply-To: References: <0428D9D8249E4C85B1AA3A61F3B6DC0F@bpai.us> Message-ID: <94136a2c0901100902x75f4319bnb43169f1eca9cd7e@mail.gmail.com> Hello, On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 17:58, Mark Sapiro wrote: > You have a few choices. > > 1) Assuming the archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox files are > present and complete, rebuild the archives with > > bin/arch --wipe LISTNAME > > 2) Edit the HTML files by hand or with a script > > 3) Live with it. There is one more option. Assuming you still control the old domain, you can rewrite the links in .htaccess file. But only if the domain is still yours. -- Zbigniew Szalbot www.slowo.pl www.fairtrade.net.pl From roger.erens at e-s-c.biz Fri Jan 9 15:17:20 2009 From: roger.erens at e-s-c.biz (Roger Erens) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 15:17:20 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can the auto-discard notification be changed? Message-ID: <49675C70.5030700@e-s-c.biz> Hi, Sorry if what I'm asking for is already possible, but I couldn't find it in the archives. There's a setting that messages sent to a mailing-list by non-members are auto-discarded. In addition, these auto-discarded messages can still be sent to the mailing-list administrator. However, the message is only preceded by a simple "The attached message has been automatically discarded." line. It took me quite some time to figure out which application/system did the discarding (is it my anti-virus software on my PC, anti-spam software on my ISP's mail server, or ...?). Can the line that precedes the message be changed to something like "The attached message has been automatically discarded by the mailman instance that manages the mailing list . The reason it is auto-discarded is: 'Post by non-member to a members-only list'" (much more like the message when a post is being held for moderation). Maybe a nice-to-have would be the ability for a list administrator to edit such lines him/herself. Cheers, Roger From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 11 00:42:24 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:42:24 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can the auto-discard notification be changed? In-Reply-To: <49675C70.5030700@e-s-c.biz> Message-ID: Roger Erens wrote: > >Sorry if what I'm asking for is already possible, but I couldn't find it >in the archives. > >There's a setting that messages sent to a mailing-list by non-members >are auto-discarded. In addition, these auto-discarded messages can still >be sent to the mailing-list administrator. > >However, the message is only preceded by a simple > >"The attached message has been automatically discarded." > >line. It took me quite some time to figure out which application/system >did the discarding (is it my anti-virus software on my PC, anti-spam >software on my ISP's mail server, or ...?). The fact that the message was From: LISTNAME-bounces at example.com and To: LISTNAME-owner at example.com wasn't enough of a clue? :) >Can the line that precedes the message be changed to something like > >"The attached message has been automatically discarded by the mailman >instance that manages the mailing list . The reason >it is auto-discarded is: 'Post by non-member to a members-only list'" > >(much more like the message when a post is being held for moderation). > >Maybe a nice-to-have would be the ability for a list administrator to >edit such lines him/herself. Any of the above would require code modification. If you are interested in changing it, the text is in the definition of do_discard in Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 11 22:01:57 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:01:57 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.12rc1 Released In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am happy to announce the first release candidate of Mailman 2.1.12. Mailman 2.1.12 is a minor bug fix and Python 2.6 compatibility release. The minimum Python for this release is Python 2.4 and it is compatible with Python through 2.6. The previous Mailman releases are not compatible with Python 2.6. See the release notes at for more details. Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites. For more information, including download links, please see: http://www.list.org http://mailman.sf.net http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman Note to translators: The mailman.pot is up to date in this release and has been merged with the individual message catalogs. If possible, please review your translations and submit any changes before the end of January. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rich at math.missouri.edu Mon Jan 12 04:39:06 2009 From: rich at math.missouri.edu (Rich Winkel) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 21:39:06 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator access to subscription list? Message-ID: <20090112033906.GI83134@pencil.math.missouri.edu> Is there a way to grant access to a list moderator to edit the subscription list without granting full administrative access? Thanks, Rich From brad at shub-internet.org Mon Jan 12 06:12:07 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 23:12:07 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator access to subscription list? In-Reply-To: <20090112033906.GI83134@pencil.math.missouri.edu> References: <20090112033906.GI83134@pencil.math.missouri.edu> Message-ID: <496AD127.9050701@shub-internet.org> on 1/11/09 9:39 PM, Rich Winkel said: > Is there a way to grant access to a list moderator to edit the > subscription list without granting full administrative access? Not without modifying the source code or coming up with some external code to perform this function. -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Mon Jan 12 13:55:37 2009 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:55:37 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator access to subscription list? In-Reply-To: <496AD127.9050701@shub-internet.org> References: <20090112033906.GI83134@pencil.math.missouri.edu> <496AD127.9050701@shub-internet.org> Message-ID: <20090112125537.GI3369@amyl.org.uk> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 11:12:07PM -0600, Brad Knowles wrote: > on 1/11/09 9:39 PM, Rich Winkel said: > > >Is there a way to grant access to a list moderator to edit the > >subscription list without granting full administrative access? > > Not without modifying the source code or coming up with some external > code to perform this function. Unless, it gets built into Mailman 3 [0] [0] http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/msg11175.html From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 12 19:39:24 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:39:24 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.12rc1 Released In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark Sapiro wrote: >I am happy to announce the first release candidate of Mailman 2.1.12. > >Mailman 2.1.12 is a minor bug fix and Python 2.6 compatibility release. > >The minimum Python for this release is Python 2.4 and it is compatible >with Python through 2.6. The previous Mailman releases are not >compatible with Python 2.6. I have discovered a compatibility issue between Mailman 2.1.12rc1 and Python 2.4. As a result of the Python 2.6 compatibility changes, we no longer install the email 2.5.8 package in Mailman's pythonlib if Python's email version is greater. This creates a problem when Python's email is 3.0.1 which is the Python 2.4 package. There is no problem with the email 4.0.x packages in Python 2.5+. The following patch to Scrubber.py works around the incompatibility and will be included in subsequent 2.1.12 releases. === modified file 'Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py' --- Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py 2008-12-01 04:30:43 +0000 +++ Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py 2009-01-12 17:45:14 +0000 @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@ -# Copyright (C) 2001-2008 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. +# Copyright (C) 2001-2009 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. # # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or # modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License @@ -167,6 +167,9 @@ # message by a text (scrubbing). del msg['content-type'] del msg['content-transfer-encoding'] + if isinstance(charset, unicode): + # email 3.0.1 (python 2.4) doesn't like unicode + charset = charset.encode('us-ascii') msg.set_payload(text, charset) -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From hone+mailman at oak.cats.ohiou.edu Mon Jan 12 21:16:15 2009 From: hone+mailman at oak.cats.ohiou.edu (hone+mailman at oak.cats.ohiou.edu) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:16:15 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman] Mailman Query: Subscription Date (fwd) Message-ID: I received a question from one of our mailing list owners. Is there a way to see the dates of member subscriptions? If not, is there a way for the owner to receive an email when a new member joins the list? Below is the message from the owner, which may describe the question better. ------------ Forwarded Message ------------ Mailman is, in almost every respect, a vast improvement on its predecessor. As it's currently set up, though, it appears that the list admin can't see the date on which members subscribed. Those of us who have subscription as a class requirement would like to be able to see whether a member subscribes prior to some deadline. Any chance I just missed this or that our configuration could have it added? ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- Don Hone Ohio University From brad at shub-internet.org Mon Jan 12 21:55:14 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:55:14 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman] Mailman Query: Subscription Date (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <496BAE32.2000003@shub-internet.org> hone+mailman at oak.cats.ohiou.edu wrote: > I received a question from one of our mailing list owners. Is there a > way to see the dates of member subscriptions? This information is available to the site administrator through the Mailman log files on the server. > If not, is there a way for > the owner to receive an email when a new member joins the list? You can do this by turning on "admin_notify_mchanges" on the main web admin page for the list. Scroll down to the "Notifications" section in the middle of the page, and it's the next-to-last option in that section (right above the "Additional settings" section). -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From bmartin at cu3edweb.com Mon Jan 12 15:42:00 2009 From: bmartin at cu3edweb.com (Brandon Martin) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 06:42:00 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender and To Fields Message-ID: <496B56B8.80704@cu3edweb.com> Is there a way that I can remove the Sender field from the header all together? Also I was hoping that there was an option with mailman so instead of the mailing list showing in the TO: field if each person that recieves it has there email address in the TO: field so it looks like they were the only ones that received it? Thanks From cpfs at isoxford.com Mon Jan 12 17:36:36 2009 From: cpfs at isoxford.com (Chris P F. Sheppard) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:36:36 -0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customising Mailman Message-ID: Hi Everybody Having read all I can about customising web pages for Mailman, I seem to have hit a brick wall when altering the login page to the mailing list archive. The webpage in question is simply htdig.html and on our Freebsd 7.0 system can be found at the following locations: /usr/local/mailman/templates/en/htdig.html /usr/local/mailman/templates/uk/htdig.html /usr/local/share/doc/htdig/html/htdig.html First of all I added the new page to /usr/local/mailman/lists/listname/en/htdig.html as I believe you can add list specific pages here. I then restarted qrunner as suggested in the mail FAQ for changing HTML pages http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action;jsessionid=aPKvCMP52-F4EdYUk7 ?pageId=4030605 No changes were visible so I then tried changing the htdig.html in the 3 locations mentioned at the begining, restarting qrunner each time as I went but all to no avail. Is this a page that you can't alter or am I missing something. Thanks for any help Chris Sheppard From espear2000 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 12 16:53:54 2009 From: espear2000 at hotmail.com (suleiman Espear) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:53:54 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] ? your solution of the problem by mailman: having two lists with the same name .. Message-ID: Hello mailman friends! Can you tell me your experience with the problem of having two lists with the same name under different virtual domains. What was your solution of that problem, was is it a good a simple one? nice day from aachen! espear _________________________________________________________________ Drag n? drop?Get easy photo sharing with Windows Live? Photos. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/photos.aspx From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Tue Jan 13 15:12:59 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 08:12:59 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender and To Fields In-Reply-To: <496B56B8.80704@cu3edweb.com> References: <496B56B8.80704@cu3edweb.com> Message-ID: <496CA16B.8090407@riverviewtech.net> On 01/12/09 08:42, Brandon Martin wrote: > Is there a way that I can remove the Sender field from the header all > together? Also I was hoping that there was an option with mailman so > instead of the mailing list showing in the TO: field if each person that > recieves it has there email address in the TO: field so it looks like > they were the only ones that received it? I'm not sure about the Sender: header, but I know you can (partially) control the To: header with the partial and / or full personalization option. I use "full personalization" and individual list subscribers are listed in each individual message. Grant. . . . From brad at shub-internet.org Tue Jan 13 16:25:21 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 09:25:21 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender and To Fields In-Reply-To: <496B56B8.80704@cu3edweb.com> References: <496B56B8.80704@cu3edweb.com> Message-ID: <496CB261.2030504@shub-internet.org> Brandon Martin wrote: > Is there a way that I can remove the Sender field from the header all > together? Also I was hoping that there was an option with mailman so > instead of the mailing list showing in the TO: field if each person that > recieves it has there email address in the TO: field so it looks like > they were the only ones that received it? Full personalization would solve part of that problem, but there's a limit to how much you can customize the output from Mailman. See FAQ 3.18 in the Mailman FAQ Wiki at . -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From brad at shub-internet.org Tue Jan 13 16:31:41 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 09:31:41 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] ? your solution of the problem by mailman: having two lists with the same name .. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <496CB3DD.3090408@shub-internet.org> suleiman Espear wrote: > Can you tell me your experience with the problem of having two lists with > the same name under different virtual domains. What was your solution of > that problem, was is it a good a simple one? See FAQ 4.47 in the Mailman FAQ Wiki at . -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 13 17:32:49 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 08:32:49 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customising Mailman In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Chris P F. Sheppard wrote: > >Having read all I can about customising web pages for Mailman, I seem to >have hit a brick wall when altering the login page to the mailing list >archive. The webpage in question is simply htdig.html and on our Freebsd >7.0 system can be found at the following locations: > >/usr/local/mailman/templates/en/htdig.html >/usr/local/mailman/templates/uk/htdig.html >/usr/local/share/doc/htdig/html/htdig.html > >First of all I added the new page to > >/usr/local/mailman/lists/listname/en/htdig.html > >as I believe you can add list specific pages here. I then restarted >qrunner as suggested in the mail FAQ for changing HTML pages > >http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action;jsessionid=aPKvCMP52-F4EdYUk7?pageId=4030605 > >No changes were visible so I then tried changing the htdig.html in the 3 >locations mentioned at the begining, restarting qrunner each time as I >went but all to no avail. Don't do this. Putting an edited template in /usr/local/mailman/lists/listname/en/ should be enough. The problem is the htdig patch which is apparently installed in your system adds an 'htdig' cgi script to process the searches. It has it's own login template, which you edited, but unless you go to http://www.example.com/mailman/htdig/listname to log in, you are still logging in through the 'private' cgi which uses the private.html template for the login page. So you also need to make an edited versiom of the private.html template. You will also note that htdig.html resembles admlogin.html more than private.html. There are historical reasons for this, but after making an edited private.html, you may wish to copy that to htdig.html. If the htdig patch is ever incorporated in GNU Mailman, it won't use a separate template. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 13 17:37:37 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 08:37:37 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender and To Fields In-Reply-To: <496B56B8.80704@cu3edweb.com> Message-ID: Brandon Martin wrote: >Is there a way that I can remove the Sender field from the header all >together? See the FAQ at . The last paragraphs tell you how to edit the code to do this. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Jan at Bytesmiths.com Tue Jan 13 19:26:07 2009 From: Jan at Bytesmiths.com (Jan Steinman) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:26:07 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] ? your solution of the problem by mailman: having two lists with the same name .. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > From: suleiman Espear > > Can you tell me your experience with the problem of having two lists > with the same name under different virtual domains. Uhm, wait patiently for Mailman 3.0? :::: Trusting Microsoft to protect your personal information is a bit too much like hiring Michael Jackson to baby-sit your kids. -- Robert X. Cringely :::: Jan Steinman "http://www.EcoReality.org" From barry at list.org Tue Jan 13 20:00:03 2009 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:00:03 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] ? your solution of the problem by mailman: having two lists with the same name .. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0B0EF29A-C2FF-4308-8DC4-7F80F3327D88@list.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Jan 13, 2009, at 1:26 PM, Jan Steinman wrote: >> From: suleiman Espear >> >> Can you tell me your experience with the problem of having two >> lists with the same name under different virtual domains. > > Uhm, wait patiently for Mailman 3.0? Why not download and play with the alphas?! - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkls5LQACgkQ2YZpQepbvXFMCQCeNZMs+rZzFNlFjyEjTohVLjMr zd8AnihHJWyQdA+nyvm7j1eOEcdm4qmS =wl7T -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From Jan at Bytesmiths.com Tue Jan 13 20:11:04 2009 From: Jan at Bytesmiths.com (Jan Steinman) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:11:04 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] ? your solution of the problem by mailman: having two lists with the same name .. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8AA2EFF3-C00C-4F15-8C4F-A10E54C0A972@Bytesmiths.com> > From: Barry Warsaw > > On Jan 13, 2009, at 1:26 PM, Jan Steinman wrote: > >>> From: suleiman Espear >>> >>> Can you tell me your experience with the problem of having two >>> lists with the same name under different virtual domains. >> >> Uhm, wait patiently for Mailman 3.0? > > Why not download and play with the alphas?! And Bob's your uncle! (I think the original poster may not be a native speaker of Queen's English -- that's an idiom that means, "It is as simple as having a relative with a common name." :-) :::: The record is clear that left to their own devices, the automobile manufacturers lack the wisdom or the will or both to switch decisively to the production of inexpensive, compact, energy-saving cars appropriate to our present needs. -- Donald E. Weeden, 1975 :::: :::: Jan Steinman http://www.VeggieVanGogh.com :::: From rich at math.missouri.edu Tue Jan 13 21:48:51 2009 From: rich at math.missouri.edu (Rich Winkel) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:48:51 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb question Message-ID: <20090113204851.GH1239@pencil.math.missouri.edu> I'm trying to set up an umbrella list and having some unexpected behavior even after reading the faq. Ok, I have alllist-bounces at x listed as a subscriber to sublist at x, with no mail and no moderation. I have USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = Yes in my mm_cfg.py file. But when I post to alllist and the message is distributed, sublist holds the message and I receive a moderation message. What am I not getting :>? Thanks, Rich From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 13 21:59:44 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:59:44 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb question In-Reply-To: <20090113204851.GH1239@pencil.math.missouri.edu> Message-ID: Rich Winkel wrote: >I'm trying to set up an umbrella list and having some unexpected >behavior even after reading the faq. > >Ok, I have alllist-bounces at x listed as a subscriber to sublist at x, with >no mail and no moderation. I have USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = Yes in >my mm_cfg.py file. But when I post to alllist and the message is >distributed, sublist holds the message and I receive a moderation message. >What am I not getting :>? For what reason is the message held? If it is "implicit destination", go to Privacy options...Recipient filter for the sublist and either set require_explicit_destination to No or add alllist at x to acceptable_aliases. If it is not "implicit destination", what is it? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From vancleef at lostwells.net Wed Jan 14 00:35:01 2009 From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:35:01 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman installation on Solaris 10 Message-ID: <200901132335.n0DNZ1pf028066@julie.lostwells.net> I'm beginning to replace the Mailman 2.1.9 installation on Solaris 9 Sparc, which has served us very well for the last two years. The new target machines are Sun Ultra 60's, one running Solaris 10-u4 (8/07) and the other, Solaris 10-u6 (10/08). All that is on either machine is a fresh install of Solaris (full install). While I've been through the drill of building and installing both Python and Mailman on Solaris before, I have a few obsrvations and questions. I went through the Mailman web page to find a download site. Going to Sourceforge offers only 2.12.rc1 unless you click "stable" on the first screen. I was unable to download either 2.1.11 or 2.1.12 from Sourceforge. That site links to Superb Hosting, which appears to be unresponsive. I had to get the software from the alternative GNU site. Both of the Solaris installs include Python 2.4.4. Whether the Solaris build is something resembling a full build or not, I don't know, but will soon find out unless someone has checked this out before me. In the past, getting anything resembling a full build of Python on Solaris has been a labor of love (porting the build scripts), and I'd prefer not to have to build and install another version of Python. I see Mark Sapiro's mail about incompatibility between 2.1.12rc1 and Python 2.4. My production installations have to have an archive search (not part of Mailman). In the past, we've used htDig 3.1.6, which is decidedly long in tooth, particularly as it requires gcc/g++ 2.95.3 to build (will not build with gcc 3 or above). For one installation, I'll filch the already-built binaries. However, I'll reopen the question of a better (and currently-maintained) search engine. I'm aware of a mail list discussing using Mhonarc and Mnogosearch, but nothing since the last posts to that site (early 2006). Is there something newer and better, or is doing the porting work needed to use Mnogosearch the best alternative available? One issue with the current 2.1.9 installation is performance while searching archives with htDig. We currently have 5gb of archives, and archive searches are very popular with our listers. I have picked up the patches for htDig->Mailman integration for 2.1.11 and assume I'm on my own for 2.1.12, for the present. Unless somebody tells me otherwise, I'll assume that I'm the first installing 2.1.12 on Solaris 10. That will go on the later (current rev) machine. Worth noting that on Solaris 10 10/08, it appears that sun has included the Studio 12 development system, with the c compiler in /usr/bin/cc. While our old nemesis, the BSD stub /usr/bin/cc is still there, a PATH that has /usr/bin before /usr/ucb should find a working cc. The config.pck files currently on the production system are for 2.1.9. If I build 2.1.11 and 2.1.12 as fresh builds and installs (no upgrade) and later copy my 2.1.9 config.pck files into them, will Mailman detect and correct the configuration? Any notes, comments, advice greatly appreciated. Hank From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 14 03:06:58 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:06:58 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman installation on Solaris 10 In-Reply-To: <200901132335.n0DNZ1pf028066@julie.lostwells.net> Message-ID: Hank van Cleef wrote: > >I went through the Mailman web page to find a download site. Going to >Sourceforge offers only 2.12.rc1 unless you click "stable" on the >first screen. I was unable to download either 2.1.11 or 2.1.12 from >Sourceforge. That site links to Superb Hosting, which appears to be >unresponsive. I had to get the software from the alternative GNU >site. It was really slow when I just tried it, but worked eventually, You can select an alternate mirror on SF. >Both of the Solaris installs include Python 2.4.4. Whether the >Solaris build is something resembling a full build or not, I don't >know, but will soon find out unless someone has checked this out >before me. In the past, getting anything resembling a full build of >Python on Solaris has been a labor of love (porting the build >scripts), and I'd prefer not to have to build and install another >version of Python. Configure requires distutils be available. It checks that it can import distutils.errors import distutils.sysconfig and also checks for the presence of the Python.h C header file, normally in /usr/include/pythonx.x/Python.h >I see Mark Sapiro's mail about incompatibility between 2.1.12rc1 and >Python 2.4. Good. My production server is running 2.1.12rc1 and Python 2.4.3 with the addition of the one patch to Scrubber.py. It is just by coincidence that a post that triggered that problem arrived the same day I upgraded. Just lucky I guess. I plan to upgrade that server soon to Python 2.6.1. I've done everything but 'make install'. It's a good thing I didn't do it before installing 2.1.12rc1 or that issue would have lurked until you found it . >My production installations have to have an archive search (not part >of Mailman). In the past, we've used htDig 3.1.6, which is decidedly >long in tooth, particularly as it requires gcc/g++ 2.95.3 to build >(will not build with gcc 3 or above). For one installation, I'll >filch the already-built binaries. I have installed htDig from CVS with gcc 4.1.1. >However, I'll reopen the question of a better (and currently-maintained) >search engine. I'm aware of a mail list discussing using Mhonarc and >Mnogosearch, but nothing since the last posts to that site (early >2006). Is there something newer and better, or is doing the porting >work needed to use Mnogosearch the best alternative available? One >issue with the current 2.1.9 installation is performance while >searching archives with htDig. We currently have 5gb of archives, and >archive searches are very popular with our listers. > >I have picked up the patches for htDig->Mailman integration for 2.1.11 >and assume I'm on my own for 2.1.12, for the present. The patches will apply with some 'offsets' and one 'fuzz'. If you want a set that applies clean you can get them at and (mirrored at and ) There are also two other patches in that directory named 'nightly_htdig' and 'rundig' which apply after the first two and which implement updating the htDig database when possible instead of rebuilding it from scratch every time. >Unless somebody tells me otherwise, I'll assume that I'm the first >installing 2.1.12 on Solaris 10. That will go on the later (current >rev) machine. Worth noting that on Solaris 10 10/08, it appears that >sun has included the Studio 12 development system, with the c compiler >in /usr/bin/cc. While our old nemesis, the BSD stub /usr/bin/cc is >still there, a PATH that has /usr/bin before /usr/ucb should find a >working cc. > >The config.pck files currently on the production system are for 2.1.9. >If I build 2.1.11 and 2.1.12 as fresh builds and installs (no upgrade) >and later copy my 2.1.9 config.pck files into them, will Mailman >detect and correct the configuration? Yes. It will detect that they are old and convert them on the fly. In theory, it will even convert config.db files from Mailman 1.x, but I won't guarantee that that one is error free. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dennyzulfikar at gmail.com Wed Jan 14 06:39:00 2009 From: dennyzulfikar at gmail.com (Denny Zulfikar) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:39:00 +0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailbox unavailable Message-ID: Dear I am trying build mailman 2.1.11 with postfix virtual, but still got error. Creating lists are success, also invite member also success. but, if I try to reply the invitation mail or send an email to a list, it displays some errors. error on reply invitation mail: Message not sent. Server replied: Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable 550 5.1.1 : Recipient address rejected: User unknown error on send to a list (after approved by click the url on invitation mail): Message not sent. Server replied: Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable 550 5.1.1 : Recipient address rejected: User unknown please give your hand. best regards, Denny From malikhemani at gmail.com Wed Jan 14 07:26:40 2009 From: malikhemani at gmail.com (Malik Hemani) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 00:26:40 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question Message-ID: <03eb01c97611$104ad0f0$30e072d0$@com> Hello all. this is my first time and lil lost as to where to go for help. Maybe this can help me out. I imported a file in cpanel with forwarders from my old cpanel to the new cpanel. When I went to create a mailing list in new cpanel it gives me this error: Creating an email list creates multiple email forwarders and one is being used already. A forwarder already exists for alumni-admin at depsizeta.org. You must delete this forwarder before creating the list But I have checked the forwarders in cpanel and do not see anything. Looks like somewhere it already exist since I had the mailing list in my old cpanel. We are just wanting to create the same mailing list in the new cpanel hosting account. Looking at the file I imported using the restore function in cpanel this was in it.I guess I need to delete all theses forwards but don't know where to find them. alumni-admin at depsizeta.org: |/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman admin alumni_depsizeta.org alumni-bounces at depsizeta.org: |/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman bounces alumni_depsizeta.org alumni-confirm at depsizeta.org: |/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman confirm alumni_depsizeta.org alumni-join at depsizeta.org: |/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman join alumni_depsizeta.org alumni-leave at depsizeta.org: |/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman leave alumni_depsizeta.org alumni-owner at depsizeta.org: |/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman owner alumni_depsizeta.org alumni-request at depsizeta.org: |/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman request alumni_depsizeta.org alumni-subscribe at depsizeta.org: |/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe alumni_depsizeta.org alumni-unsubscribe at depsizeta.org: |/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe alumni_depsizeta.org alumni at depsizeta.org: |/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman post alumni_depsizeta.org Any help is appreciated. Malik M. Hemani 832.326.1926 From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 14 17:50:56 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 08:50:56 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question In-Reply-To: <03eb01c97611$104ad0f0$30e072d0$@com> Message-ID: Malik Hemani wrote: > >Creating an email list creates multiple email forwarders and one is being >used already. >A forwarder already exists for alumni-admin at depsizeta.org. > >You must delete this forwarder before creating the list This is all cPanel specific. See the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de Wed Jan 14 16:50:59 2009 From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:50:59 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Python 2.2 and mailman > 2.1.9 Message-ID: <9AEC38F658125F83F35E5111@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de> Hi, on our production server we (still) run Red Hat Enterprise Linux 3. The most recent version of Python there is Python 2.2.3. Currently we run Mailman 2.1.9. I've built an RPM for Mailman 2.1.11 that we were planning on installing soon. However, we installed it on a test system and found this issue: Jan 14 16:10:28 2009 (3972) Uncaught runner exception: No module named sets Jan 14 16:10:28 2009 (3972) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 150, in _dopipeline __import__(modname) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CalcRecips.py", line 41, in ? from sets import Set as set ImportError: No module named sets The relevant source is this: # Use set for sibling list recipient calculation try: set except NameError: # Python2.3 from sets import Set as set It seems as though Python >= 2.4 has "set", Python 2.3 has "Set" as an import, but Python 2.2 has neither. The sibling feature was introduced with Mailman 2.1.10, so I guess that version would have the same issue. I don't recall having read anything about that. Does nobody else use such an old Python version? Anyway, is there a workaround for 2.2 or do we have to either install a separate Python or upgrade to RHEL 5 if we want to update Mailman? I know that Mailman 2.1.12 will require Python 2.4, but I had been hoping for one last update that supports 2.2 ... Thanks, Sebastian -- Sebastian Hagedorn - Listmaster - RZKR-R1 (Geb?ude 52), Zimmer 18 Zentrum f?r angewandte Informatik - Universit?tsweiter Service RRZK Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - Tel. +49-221-478-5587 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 194 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 14 17:55:50 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 08:55:50 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailbox unavailable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Denny Zulfikar wrote: > >error on reply invitation mail: >Message not sent. Server replied: Requested action not taken: mailbox >unavailable >550 5.1.1 : Recipient address rejected: User unknown > >error on send to a list (after approved by click the url on invitation mail): >Message not sent. Server replied: Requested action not taken: mailbox >unavailable >550 5.1.1 : Recipient address rejected: User unknown You haven't installed Mailman's aliases in postfix or you haven't properly configured Mailman/Postfix integration. See . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 14 18:02:55 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:02:55 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Python 2.2 and mailman > 2.1.9 In-Reply-To: <9AEC38F658125F83F35E5111@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de> References: <9AEC38F658125F83F35E5111@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de> Message-ID: <496E1ABF.2030104@msapiro.net> Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > > Anyway, is there a workaround for 2.2 or do we have to either install a > separate Python or upgrade to RHEL 5 if we want to update Mailman? I > know that Mailman 2.1.12 will require Python 2.4, but I had been hoping > for one last update that supports 2.2 ... Mailman 2.1.10+ require Python 2.4. See the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From brian at emwd.com Wed Jan 14 18:37:04 2009 From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:37:04 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question In-Reply-To: <03eb01c97611$104ad0f0$30e072d0$@com> References: <03eb01c97611$104ad0f0$30e072d0$@com> Message-ID: <014a01c9766e$bb1a1a60$314e4f20$@com> > -----Original Message----- > From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org [mailto:mailman- > users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Malik Hemani > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 1:27 AM > To: Mailman-Users at python.org > Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question > > > > > Any help is appreciated. > > > > Malik M. Hemani > Hi Malik: Your hosting provider should be able to help you out here. The problem you are having is not a Mailman issue but cPanel. The file they need to modify is located in /etc/valiases. Brian EMWD.com From rich at math.missouri.edu Thu Jan 15 06:15:10 2009 From: rich at math.missouri.edu (Rich Winkel) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:15:10 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] max_message_size & scrubbing Message-ID: <20090115051510.GT1239@pencil.math.missouri.edu> Is the max_message_size test applied before or after attachment scrubbing? Thanks Rich From rich at math.missouri.edu Thu Jan 15 07:08:18 2009 From: rich at math.missouri.edu (Rich Winkel) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:08:18 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] max_message_size & scrubbing In-Reply-To: <20090115051510.GT1239@pencil.math.missouri.edu> References: <20090115051510.GT1239@pencil.math.missouri.edu> Message-ID: <20090115060818.GU1239@pencil.math.missouri.edu> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 11:15:10PM -0600, Rich Winkel wrote: > Is the max_message_size test applied before or after attachment > scrubbing? It seems the answer is "before" which seems kinda pointless. Is there a way to do this test after the attachments are scrubbed? Also the attachment (named "memo.pdf") was saved with extension ".obj" which I guess was a result of the generic mime-type (octet-stream). Maybe if the mime-type is octet-stream the extension should be copied from the filename? Thanks for any help! Rich From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 15 07:33:56 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:33:56 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] max_message_size & scrubbing In-Reply-To: <20090115060818.GU1239@pencil.math.missouri.edu> Message-ID: Rich Winkel wrote: >On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 11:15:10PM -0600, Rich Winkel wrote: >> Is the max_message_size test applied before or after attachment >> scrubbing? > >It seems the answer is "before" which seems kinda pointless. >Is there a way to do this test after the attachments are scrubbed? > >Also the attachment (named "memo.pdf") was saved with extension ".obj" >which I guess was a result of the generic mime-type (octet-stream). Maybe >if the mime-type is octet-stream the extension should be copied >from the filename? If you want to use the extension from the file name, set SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION = True in mm_cfg.py. You may also be interested in the SCRUBBER_DONT_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME setting. See the comments about both these in Defaults.py. If you have set the list's scrub_nondigest setting to Yes and you want the message scrubbed before checking for too big (and other miscellaneous holds), see the post at except the handler you want to move in the pipeline is 'Scrubber' instead of (or in addition to) 'MimeDel'. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dpifer at odu.edu Wed Jan 14 20:10:10 2009 From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:10:10 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue with text to Mailman list serve Message-ID: <496E3892.3000109@odu.edu> Hello, One of our list serve administrators is experiencing an issue with one of her listserves. Here is her description of the issue. She is sending text to her listserve which is a moderated list. She approves the message but as a member of the list, the email is received with 3 attachments: ATT00001.c, ATT00002.htm, and ATT00003.c. The administrator has 2 other lists and when she sends text, she receives them as text. She would like email sent as text to be received as text. I have checked the configuration settings from her 3 lists, and the difference between the 3 is the one that is having this issue is the moderated. I would not think this to be the cause of the issue. At first, the issue was reported to me that email was sent as html but was received as text so I suspected the issue to be with the Content Filtering settings. So, I checked all 3 lists and they are exactly the same. Just to inform the group, I did check the FAQ archives but have not found the issue. Also, we are using Mailman version 2.1.9. Has anyone seen this and if so, what is the resolution? Regards, Darren ODU From kaerast at newscloud.com Thu Jan 15 16:33:25 2009 From: kaerast at newscloud.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=E6rast?=) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:33:25 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] variables in msg_footer Message-ID: <20090115153325.4c425159@bennet> Hi, I'm having problems with the footers on our mailman server, the variables such as %(real_name)s are being entered as-is and not rewritten to what they should be. I have DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER set at the very bottom of /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER = """ ### To unsubscribe: 1) send blank email to: %(real_name)s-unsubscribe@%(host_name)s 2) reply to the confirmation email ### """ New lists are created with the % variables intact and not the content of them. For good measure I tried setting the msg_footer for all lists by using http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-January/055486.html All lists have the same footer: ### To unsubscribe: 1) send blank email to: %(real_name)s-unsubscribe@%(host_name)s 2) reply to the confirmation email ### Am I doing something obviously silly? Where should I be looking in order to debug this? -- Alice From malcolm.austen at weald.org.uk Thu Jan 15 10:48:41 2009 From: malcolm.austen at weald.org.uk (Malcolm Austen) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 09:48:41 -0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] max_message_size & scrubbing In-Reply-To: <20090115060818.GU1239@pencil.math.missouri.edu> References: <20090115051510.GT1239@pencil.math.missouri.edu> <20090115060818.GU1239@pencil.math.missouri.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 06:08:18 -0000, Rich Winkel wrote: > It seems the answer is "before" which seems kinda pointless. > Is there a way to do this test after the attachments are scrubbed? Personally, I prefer the present order. Taking HTML posts for example, I tell people they can post up to Xkb but that, in effect, for those who fail to post in plain text the limit is approximately X/3. My feeling is that it's better to make people think before they post rather than molly-coddle them :) regards, Malcolm. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From wqin.work at gmail.com Thu Jan 15 06:40:23 2009 From: wqin.work at gmail.com (Wei Qin) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:40:23 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman receives, archives, acks message but does not send to list Message-ID: <496ECC47.40009@gmail.com> The server was set up a year ago and has been functioning properly. But recently it no longer broadcasts to the list. The smtp log only shows the acknowledgement message, but no multi-recipient broadcasting message. Can anyone give a clue? Thanks in advance. wqin From z-el.tonkovic at chipoteka.hr Thu Jan 15 08:52:24 2009 From: z-el.tonkovic at chipoteka.hr (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Kre=B9imir_Tonkovi=E6?=) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:52:24 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web interface automation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Up to recently we run our own mailman list on an ADSL connected host, and mail delivery was routed through a smarthost - our ISP's mail server. Then our ISP imposed limits on the amount of mail we can send, and now it doesn't work very well any more. The obvious solution is to move the mailing list to a hosted solution, and our ISP offers that - it is even mailman again :-) We use the list for sending our commercial newsletter to subscribed clients. The list of subscribers is not maintained by mailman, but through personal contacts and is stored in our ERP database. So before sending the newsletter, we would generate a list of subscribers in a text file and synchronize this list with mailman using the sync_members.py script (included in mailman). Now, our ISP doesn't offer a shell account and we can't use sync_members.py on the hosted list to synchronize subscriber lists any more. Our idea is to write a script that would use the standard web interface to manage the subscribers list. Adding members with the mass-subscribe form is straightforward, but removing members by unchecking boxes in the list is a bit more complicated. Before we start working on this, have you heard of similar tools already written? Or maybe you know of better ways to do this? Regards, -- Kresimir Tonkovic From brad at shub-internet.org Thu Jan 15 17:10:45 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:10:45 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue with text to Mailman list serve In-Reply-To: <496E3892.3000109@odu.edu> References: <496E3892.3000109@odu.edu> Message-ID: <496F6005.7020400@shub-internet.org> Darren G Pifer wrote: > One of our list serve administrators is experiencing an issue with one of > her listserves. Here is her description of the issue. She is sending > text to her listserve which is a moderated list. She approves the > message but as a member of the list, the email is received with 3 > attachments: ATT00001.c, ATT00002.htm, and ATT00003.c. The > administrator has 2 other lists and when she sends text, she receives > them as text. She would like email sent as text to be received as text. The only time I've heard of anything like this is when there are different character sets being used in some of the headers or footers (sometimes space characters), thus causing the different parts of the message to be put in different MIME body parts (as described in FAQ 4.39 at ). You could try deleting all list-specific headers and footers and re-creating them, this time making sure that you don't put in any non-ASCII characters. Or maybe you've got ASCII characters in there, but there are non-ASCII characters in the submitted message, such as accented characters in someone's name or signature? Other than that, I have no idea how this kind of thing would happen. -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From brad at shub-internet.org Thu Jan 15 17:11:45 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:11:45 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman receives, archives, acks message but does not send to list In-Reply-To: <496ECC47.40009@gmail.com> References: <496ECC47.40009@gmail.com> Message-ID: <496F6041.6050006@shub-internet.org> Wei Qin wrote: > The server was set up a year ago and has been functioning properly. But > recently it no longer broadcasts to the list. The smtp log only shows > the acknowledgement message, but no multi-recipient broadcasting > message. Can anyone give a clue? Search the Mailman FAQ Wiki for "troubleshooting". -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 15 17:20:03 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:20:03 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web interface automation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <496F6233.4070101@msapiro.net> Kreaimir Tonkovi wrote: > > Our idea is to write a script that would use the standard web > interface to manage the subscribers list. Adding members with the > mass-subscribe form is straightforward, but removing members by > unchecking boxes in the list is a bit more complicated. Why can't you use the mass-remove form in the same way you'd use mass-subscribe to add members? > Before we start working on this, have you heard of similar tools > already written? Or maybe you know of better ways to do this? Without shell access, scripting the web interface is usually the best you can do. I'm not specifically aware of any existing web "sync members" scripts although they may exist. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 15 17:34:42 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:34:42 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue with text to Mailman list serve In-Reply-To: <496F6005.7020400@shub-internet.org> Message-ID: Brad Knowles wrote: >Darren G Pifer wrote: > >> One of our list serve administrators is experiencing an issue with one of >> her listserves. If it's a Listserv(r) list, why are you posting here :) (Listserv(r) is a registered trademark[1] owned by the developer of a particular email list management product, and it shouldn't be used generically.) >> Here is her description of the issue. She is sending >> text to her listserve which is a moderated list. She approves the >> message but as a member of the list, the email is received with 3 >> attachments: ATT00001.c, ATT00002.htm, and ATT00003.c. The >> administrator has 2 other lists and when she sends text, she receives >> them as text. She would like email sent as text to be received as text. > >The only time I've heard of anything like this is when there are different >character sets being used in some of the headers or footers (sometimes space >characters), thus causing the different parts of the message to be put in >different MIME body parts (as described in FAQ 4.39 at >). > >You could try deleting all list-specific headers and footers and re-creating >them, this time making sure that you don't put in any non-ASCII characters. > Or maybe you've got ASCII characters in there, but there are non-ASCII >characters in the submitted message, such as accented characters in >someone's name or signature? > >Other than that, I have no idea how this kind of thing would happen. The .htm extension on the middle "attachment" which I assume is the message body indicates she is not sending a text/plain message but rather a text/html message, and content filtering is not removing the html part or converting it to plain text. The other "attachments" are probably the msg_header and msg_footer as Brad suggests. The FAQ Brad references is the relevant one. The difference between lists may be that this is the only one that adds msg_header and msg_footer. I may not have this exactly right, but the only way to know for sure is to see a raw message from the list or at least the content of the three "attachments" [1] -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 15 17:42:29 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:42:29 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] variables in msg_footer In-Reply-To: <20090115153325.4c425159@bennet> Message-ID: K?rast wrote: > >I'm having problems with the footers on our mailman server, the >variables such as %(real_name)s are being entered as-is and not >rewritten to what they should be. > >I have DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER set at the very bottom >of /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py > >DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER = """ >### >To unsubscribe: > 1) send blank email to: %(real_name)s-unsubscribe@%(host_name)s > 2) reply to the confirmation email >### >""" > >New lists are created with the % variables intact and not the content >of them. This is correct. The replacement is done when the footer is added to the message, not when the list is created. >For good measure I tried setting the msg_footer for all lists >by using >http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-January/055486.html > >All lists have the same footer: > >### >To unsubscribe: > 1) send blank email to: %(real_name)s-unsubscribe@%(host_name)s > 2) reply to the confirmation email >### > >Am I doing something obviously silly? Where should I be looking in >order to debug this? Are you saying that %(real_name)s and %(host_name)s are not being replaced in the footer added to outgoing mail or just that they are not being replaced in the msg_footer you see in the web interface. They are not supposed to be replaced in the web interface, only in the outgoing mail. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dpifer at odu.edu Thu Jan 15 17:44:54 2009 From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:44:54 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue with text to Mailman list serve In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <496F6806.7070403@odu.edu> Mark Sapiro wrote: > Brad Knowles wrote: > > >>> One of our list serve administrators is experiencing an issue with one of >>> her listserves. >>> > > If it's a Listserv(r) list, why are you posting here :) > > (Listserv(r) is a registered trademark[1] owned by the developer of a > particular email list management product, and it shouldn't be used > generically.) > Yea, it is incorrect to use listserve but it is common amongst our users so I have assimilated to use the same terminology :( It is a Mailman list. >>> Here is her description of the issue. She is sending >>> text to her listserve which is a moderated list. She approves the >>> message but as a member of the list, the email is received with 3 >>> attachments: ATT00001.c, ATT00002.htm, and ATT00003.c. The >>> administrator has 2 other lists and when she sends text, she receives >>> them as text. She would like email sent as text to be received as text. >>> >> The only time I've heard of anything like this is when there are different >> character sets being used in some of the headers or footers (sometimes space >> characters), thus causing the different parts of the message to be put in >> different MIME body parts (as described in FAQ 4.39 at >> ). >> >> You could try deleting all list-specific headers and footers and re-creating >> them, this time making sure that you don't put in any non-ASCII characters. >> Or maybe you've got ASCII characters in there, but there are non-ASCII >> characters in the submitted message, such as accented characters in >> someone's name or signature? >> >> Other than that, I have no idea how this kind of thing would happen. >> > > The .htm extension on the middle "attachment" which I assume is the > message body indicates she is not sending a text/plain message but > rather a text/html message, and content filtering is not removing the > html part or converting it to plain text. The other "attachments" are > probably the msg_header and msg_footer as Brad suggests. The FAQ Brad > references is the relevant one. The difference between lists may be > that this is the only one that adds msg_header and msg_footer. > As Brad wrote, I found some non-ascii characters in the introduction description from the general options for the list so I removed them. I asked the list admin to send another message to the list. BTW, I asked the admin to add me as a member so I can see what is happening. > I may not have this exactly right, but the only way to know for sure is > to see a raw message from the list or at least the content of the > three "attachments" > If this does not resolve the issue, I will add the attachments in my next email to the group. Thanks, Darren ODU From brian at emwd.com Thu Jan 15 18:00:29 2009 From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:00:29 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web interface automation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <011d01c97732$c6e004d0$54a00e70$@com> > -----Original Message----- > From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org [mailto:mailman- > users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Kre?imir Tonkovic > Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 2:52 AM > To: mailman-users at python.org > Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web interface automation > > Up to recently we run our own mailman list on an ADSL connected host, > and mail delivery was routed through a smarthost - our ISP's mail > server. Then our ISP imposed limits on the amount of mail we can send, > and now it doesn't work very well any more. > > The obvious solution is to move the mailing list to a hosted solution, > and our ISP offers that - it is even mailman again :-) > > We use the list for sending our commercial newsletter to subscribed > clients. The list of subscribers is not maintained by mailman, but > through personal contacts and is stored in our ERP database. So before > sending the newsletter, we would generate a list of subscribers in a > text file and synchronize this list with mailman using the > sync_members.py script (included in mailman). > > Now, our ISP doesn't offer a shell account and we can't use > sync_members.py on the hosted list to synchronize subscriber lists any > more. Your ISP should be able to setup a cronjob for you to do this. All you would need to do is upload your txt file via FTP or some other upload method. That is what we would do if one of our mailman clients needed this. Brian EMWD.com http://www.emwd.com/mailman.html From rich at math.missouri.edu Thu Jan 15 18:24:41 2009 From: rich at math.missouri.edu (Rich Winkel) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:24:41 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] max_message_size & scrubbing In-Reply-To: References: <20090115060818.GU1239@pencil.math.missouri.edu> Message-ID: <20090115172441.GX1239@pencil.math.missouri.edu> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 10:33:56PM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > If you have set the list's scrub_nondigest setting to Yes and you want > the message scrubbed before checking for too big (and other > miscellaneous holds), see the post at > > except the handler you want to move in the pipeline is 'Scrubber' > instead of (or in addition to) 'MimeDel'. So should it should look like: GLOBAL_PIPELINE.remove('MimeDel') GLOBAL_PIPELINE.remove('Scrubber') GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(GLOBAL_PIPELINE.index('Hold'), 'Scrubber') GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(GLOBAL_PIPELINE.index('Hold'), 'MimeDel') if MimeDel is to be called before Scrubber? Thanks, Rich From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 15 19:15:38 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:15:38 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] max_message_size & scrubbing In-Reply-To: <20090115172441.GX1239@pencil.math.missouri.edu> Message-ID: Rich Winkel wrote: >On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 10:33:56PM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> If you have set the list's scrub_nondigest setting to Yes and you want >> the message scrubbed before checking for too big (and other >> miscellaneous holds), see the post at >> >> except the handler you want to move in the pipeline is 'Scrubber' >> instead of (or in addition to) 'MimeDel'. > >So should it should look like: >GLOBAL_PIPELINE.remove('MimeDel') >GLOBAL_PIPELINE.remove('Scrubber') >GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(GLOBAL_PIPELINE.index('Hold'), 'Scrubber') >GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(GLOBAL_PIPELINE.index('Hold'), 'MimeDel') >if MimeDel is to be called before Scrubber? No. The result of the above will be 'Scrubber', 'MimeDel', 'Hold' in that order. There are many ways to do this, but looking at the above, it removes 'MimeDel' and 'Scrubber' and then inserts 'Scrubber' immediately before 'Hold' and finally inserts 'MimeDel' immediately before 'Hold' which is after Scrubber (and definitely wrong - 'MimeDel' should always be before 'Scrubber'). You could fix the above by reversing the order of the inserts or by changing the second insert to GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(GLOBAL_PIPELINE.index('Scrubber'), 'MimeDel') Or, a shorter way to do the same thing is to move 'Hold' after 'Scrubber' with GLOBAL_PIPELINE.remove('Hold') GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(GLOBAL_PIPELINE.index('Scrubber') + 1, 'Hold') I have just added a FAQ on this at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dpifer at odu.edu Thu Jan 15 19:18:20 2009 From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:18:20 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue with text to Mailman list serve In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <496F7DEC.6010505@odu.edu> Mark Sapiro wrote: >>> Here is her description of the issue. She is sending >>> text to her listserve which is a moderated list. She approves the >>> message but as a member of the list, the email is received with 3 >>> attachments: ATT00001.c, ATT00002.htm, and ATT00003.c. The >>> administrator has 2 other lists and when she sends text, she receives >>> them as text. She would like email sent as text to be received as text. >>> >>> You could try deleting all list-specific headers and footers and re-creating >>> them, this time making sure that you don't put in any non-ASCII characters. >>> Or maybe you've got ASCII characters in there, but there are non-ASCII >>> characters in the submitted message, such as accented characters in >>> someone's name or signature? >>> >>> Other than that, I have no idea how this kind of thing would happen. >>> Re-creating the headers and footers did not resolve the issue. > The .htm extension on the middle "attachment" which I assume is the > message body indicates she is not sending a text/plain message but > rather a text/html message, and content filtering is not removing the > html part or converting it to plain text. The other "attachments" are > probably the msg_header and msg_footer as Brad suggests. The FAQ Brad > references is the relevant one. The difference between lists may be > that this is the only one that adds msg_header and msg_footer. > > I may not have this exactly right, but the only way to know for sure is > to see a raw message from the list or at least the content of the > three "attachments" > I have attached the files you requested, as sent to me by the list administrator. It appears to me what is happening is the list server is sending the email with 3 attachments but displays as 4 parts: there is the message header, the text version of the email, then an HTML version of the email, followed by the message footer. I see like a line separator between each part. (I use the Thunderbird mail client). This does not seem like normal behavior. If anything, there should be a minimum of 3 parts, not 4. Let me know if there is any else you need from me. Regards, Darren ODU From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 15 19:52:39 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:52:39 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue with text to Mailman list serve In-Reply-To: <496F7DEC.6010505@odu.edu> Message-ID: Darren G Pifer wrote: >I have attached the files you requested, as sent to me by the list >administrator. >It appears to me what is happening is the list server is sending the >email with >3 attachments but displays as 4 parts: there is the message header, the >text >version of the email, then an HTML version of the email, followed by the >message >footer. I see like a line separator between each part. (I use the >Thunderbird mail >client). This does not seem like normal behavior. If anything, there >should >be a minimum of 3 parts, not 4. > >Let me know if there is any else you need from me. The actual attachments didn't get to the list, but they are as Darren describes. It appears that the original message to the list is multipart/alternative with test/plain and text/html alternative parts. The three message parts in addition to the headers are the text/plain part, the text/html part and the msg_footer. Something is wrong with what is happening to this message. Normally, if a message with structure multipart/alternative text/plain text/html is sent to a list and content filtering doesn't remove eather alternative or collapse alternatives, the msg_footer will be added as a separate part and the final message will look like multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain text/html text/plain I.e. it will be converted to a multipart mixed message with two parts - part 1 being the original message parts and part 2 being the footer. In your case, it appears that the final message structure is multipart/mixed text/plain text/html text/plain instead. What Mailman version is this? What are the list's content filtering settings? What is the raw message with all headers? In Tbird, select the message and then File->Save As->File or just ctrl-S, and give it a name with a .txt extension. Then you can attach that .txt file to a list post. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dpifer at odu.edu Thu Jan 15 20:13:09 2009 From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:13:09 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue with text to Mailman list serve In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <496F8AC5.9070606@odu.edu> Mark Sapiro wrote: > Darren G Pifer wrote: > > >> I have attached the files you requested, as sent to me by the list >> administrator. >> >> >> It appears to me what is happening is the list server is sending the >> email with >> 3 attachments but displays as 4 parts: there is the message header, the >> text >> version of the email, then an HTML version of the email, followed by the >> message >> footer. I see like a line separator between each part. (I use the >> Thunderbird mail >> client). This does not seem like normal behavior. If anything, there >> should >> be a minimum of 3 parts, not 4. >> >> Let me know if there is any else you need from me. >> > > > > The actual attachments didn't get to the list, but they are as Darren > describes. > > It appears that the original message to the list is > multipart/alternative with test/plain and text/html alternative parts. > The three message parts in addition to the headers are the text/plain > part, the text/html part and the msg_footer. > > Something is wrong with what is happening to this message. Normally, if > a message with structure > > multipart/alternative > text/plain > text/html > > is sent to a list and content filtering doesn't remove eather > alternative or collapse alternatives, the msg_footer will be added as > a separate part and the final message will look like > > multipart/mixed > multipart/alternative > text/plain > text/html > text/plain > > I.e. it will be converted to a multipart mixed message with two parts - > part 1 being the original message parts and part 2 being the footer. > In your case, it appears that the final message structure is > > multipart/mixed > text/plain > text/html > text/plain > > instead. > > What Mailman version is this? > > 2.1.9 > What are the list's content filtering settings? > Should Mailman filter the content of list traffic according to the settings below? No Remove message attachments that don't have a matching content type. Leave this field blank to skip this filter test. multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain Should Mailman collapse multipart/alternative to its first part content? Yes Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text? This conversion happens after MIME attachments have been stripped. Yes Action to take when a message matches the content filtering rules. Discard The Content Filtering settings are the same across all 3 lists the admin owns but only this one is it working incorrectly. > What is the raw message with all headers? > In Tbird, select the message and then File->Save As->File or just > ctrl-S, and give it a name with a .txt extension. Then you can attach > that .txt file to a list post. > > I see that my attachments did not come across so I have attached the raw message removing only some private information. The owner forwarded to me a copy of the email sent to the list. Regards, Darren ODU From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 15 20:50:39 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:50:39 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue with text to Mailman list serve In-Reply-To: <496F8AC5.9070606@odu.edu> Message-ID: Darren G Pifer wrote: > >Mark Sapiro wrote: >> >> What Mailman version is this? >> >> >2.1.9 OK. >> What are the list's content filtering settings? >> >Should Mailman filter the content of list traffic according to the >settings below? No So content filtering is off and not involved. > >The Content Filtering settings are the same across all 3 lists the admin >owns but only this one is it working >incorrectly. OK. >> What is the raw message with all headers? >> In Tbird, select the message and then File->Save As->File or just >> ctrl-S, and give it a name with a .txt extension. Then you can attach >> that .txt file to a list post. >> >> >I see that my attachments did not come across so I have attached the raw >message >removing only some private information. The owner forwarded to me a copy of >the email sent to the list. Thanks, but the forwarded message doesn't help much. It appears to be a forward from MS Outlook of the received message. What I would need to see is the raw message. I don't know how to get that from Outlook. In Outlook Express, you can right-click the message in the message list pane and then select Properties->Details->Message Source and then select and copy the entire message source and paste it into notepad, but I have no idea if this would work in Outlook. What I can see is the part that says "Womens_Center" looks like msg_header so that both msg_header and msg_footer are added and the result should look like multipart/mixed text/plain multipart/alternative text/plain text/html text/plain It is possible that this is in fact the structure of the message and Outlook thinks that the first text/plain part is the message body and everything else is an attachment, in which case, it's realy an Outlook issue, but that wouldn't explain why the other lists are OK unless they don't have msg_header. I do have another idea. You said the difference here is the message is held for moderation and approved. Does this Mailman instance have some kind of patch that enables editing held messages before approval? If so, I think that's where the problem lies. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rick at niof.net Thu Jan 15 19:56:07 2009 From: rick at niof.net (Rick Pasotto) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:56:07 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] bccs Message-ID: <20090115185607.GB30841@niof.net> I just sent a message to two different lists, setting To: to list1 and Bcc: to list2. The second got moderated because of 'implicit address'. When I then approved it, the To: still showed list1 though the subject line got altered to include [list2]. I thought Bcc addresses would *replace* the To addresses. Do I have to actually post two different messages with different To:s? How are Bcc:s supposed to work? -- "Our fatigue is often caused not by work, but by worry, frustration and resentment." -- Dale Carnegie Rick Pasotto rick at niof.net http://www.niof.net From brad at shub-internet.org Thu Jan 15 21:16:39 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:16:39 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] bccs In-Reply-To: <20090115185607.GB30841@niof.net> References: <20090115185607.GB30841@niof.net> Message-ID: <496F99A7.8000009@shub-internet.org> Rick Pasotto wrote: > I thought Bcc addresses would *replace* the To addresses. Do I have to > actually post two different messages with different To:s? > > How are Bcc:s supposed to work? A blind-carbon-copy should never cause the contents of the "To:" or "Cc:" header to be changed. People have been making this mistake for years. If you want to actual list name to show up, you can either send plain carbon-copies to both, or send separate copies to each. -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 15 21:29:25 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:29:25 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] bccs In-Reply-To: <20090115185607.GB30841@niof.net> Message-ID: Rick Pasotto wrote: >I just sent a message to two different lists, setting To: to list1 >and Bcc: to list2. > >The second got moderated because of 'implicit address'. When I then >approved it, the To: still showed list1 though the subject line got >altered to include [list2]. > >I thought Bcc addresses would *replace* the To addresses. Do I have to >actually post two different messages with different To:s? > >How are Bcc:s supposed to work? A Bcc: is usually a feature of an MUA to allow setting an envelope recipient address that doesn't appear in a message header. By the time the message gets to a Mailman list, Mailman has no idea how or why it got there. Mailman only knows that the list address is or is not in a To: or Cc: header of the message that arrived. If the list is set to require_explicit_destination, all Mailman will do is check that the list address or an acceptable_aliases address appears in To: or Cc: and if not, hold the message. If the message is subsequently approved, it is delivered, but nothing is rewritten in To: or Cc: If your intent is to have messages sent to the list members of multiple lists with only the address of their list in To: or Cc: in order to reduce or eliminate cross posting of replies or hide the other list addresses, you have two choices: 1) send separate messages individually to the lists. 2) enable Full Personalization for the lists and send one message To: (not Cc:) all lists. Then delivered messages will be To: the recipient and will have the address of the list they come from added to Cc: to facilitate replies. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dpifer at odu.edu Thu Jan 15 22:23:25 2009 From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:23:25 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue with text to Mailman list serve In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <496FA94D.106@odu.edu> Mark Sapiro wrote: > Darren G Pifer wrote: > > >>> What is the raw message with all headers? >>> In Tbird, select the message and then File->Save As->File or just >>> ctrl-S, and give it a name with a .txt extension. Then you can attach >>> that .txt file to a list post. >>> >>> >>> >> I see that my attachments did not come across so I have attached the raw >> message >> removing only some private information. The owner forwarded to me a copy of >> the email sent to the list. >> I asked our Exchange administrator to get the message headers. Here is that information: Received: from malden.server1.odu.edu (128.82.96.118) by PARAKEET.ts.odu.edu (192.168.96.22) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.1.311.2; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:50:12 -0500 Received: from malden.server1.odu.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by malden.server1.odu.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n0FGo1O1020182 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:50:12 -0500 Received: (from defang at localhost) by malden.server1.odu.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id n0FGmUJa019787 for nouser at odu.edu; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:48:30 -0500 Received: from malden.server1.odu.edu (malden.server1.odu.edu [128.82.96.118]) by malden.server1.odu.edu (envelope-sender ) (MIMEDefang) with ESMTP id n0FGmOCp019564; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:48:30 -0500 (EST) X-Mailman-Handler: $Id: mm-handler,v 1.2 2005/09/06 14:19:26 root Exp $ Received: from jarvis.server1.odu.edu (jarvis.server1.odu.edu [128.82.96.116]) by malden.server1.odu.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n0FGfRF2017255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:41:27 -0500 Received: from macaw.ts.odu.edu (macaw.ts.odu.edu [192.168.96.21]) by jarvis.server1.odu.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n0FGfRKn006790 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:41:27 -0500 Received: from MUFASA.ts.odu.edu ([192.168.96.25]) by macaw.ts.odu.edu ([192.168.96.21]) with mapi; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:41:27 -0500 To: "'womenscenter at list.odu.edu'" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:41:26 -0500 Thread-Topic: MPOWER Peer Education Training Thread-Index: Acl3MBuMFudt3DTYR1OHocyl2DC6Og== Message-ID: <650EEA523BF3974982D019528E8F14AA41797B1079 at MUFASA.ts.odu.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: undef - DOMAIN Whitelisted (Domain list.odu.edu is whitelisted) X-CanItPRO-Stream: nouser X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 128.82.96.118 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 128.82.96.118 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 128.82.96.104 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:48:23 -0500 From: Subject: [ODU Women's Center] MPOWER Peer Education Training X-BeenThere: womenscenter at list.odu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: womenscenter at list.odu.edu List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0531434121029220416==" Sender: Errors-To: womenscenter-bounces at list.odu.edu X-Canit-Stats-ID: 111486436 - aacdcfad7cef Return-Path: womenscenter-bounces at list.odu.edu > Thanks, but the forwarded message doesn't help much. It appears to be a > forward from MS Outlook of the received message. What I would need to > see is the raw message. I don't know how to get that from Outlook. In > Outlook Express, you can right-click the message in the message list > pane and then select Properties->Details->Message Source and then > select and copy the entire message source and paste it into notepad, > but I have no idea if this would work in Outlook. > > What I can see is the part that says "Womens_Center" looks like > msg_header so that both msg_header and msg_footer are added and the > result should look like > > multipart/mixed > text/plain > multipart/alternative > text/plain > text/html > text/plain > > It is possible that this is in fact the structure of the message and > Outlook thinks that the first text/plain part is the message body and > everything else is an attachment, in which case, it's realy an Outlook > issue, but that wouldn't explain why the other lists are OK unless > they don't have msg_header. > The other 2 lists do not have message headers. The issue appears to be an issue with Outlook, in combination with the message header from the list. The Exchange administrator showed me what it looks like in Outlook and it was as I suspected: the message header "womens_center" is the message body and everything else are attachments. I am going to suggest to the administrator of this list to remove the message header. I think this will resolve this issue. > I do have another idea. You said the difference here is the message is > held for moderation and approved. Does this Mailman instance have some > kind of patch that enables editing held messages before approval? If > so, I think that's where the problem lies I have not added any patches to Mailman since it was installed. Darren From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 15 22:45:56 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:45:56 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue with text to Mailman list serve In-Reply-To: <496FA94D.106@odu.edu> Message-ID: Darren G Pifer wrote: >I asked our Exchange administrator to get the message headers. Here is >that information: Thanks, but that by itself doesn't tell me much. It does tell me that Mailman recast the message as multipart mixed, but I already knew that. I need to see the MIME structure of the entire message including all the sub-part headers, but even in the absence of that, focus on the following: Is the non-working list the only one with a msg_header as well as a msg_footer? If that is the case, try removing the msg_header completely and see if that helps. If that is not the case, does this Mailman instance have any modifications to allow editing a post from the admindb interface prior to approval? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From doug at nran.org Thu Jan 15 19:14:36 2009 From: doug at nran.org (Douglas Edwards) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:14:36 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is Not Receiving / Sending my Posts or Showing up in Archive Message-ID: <0D6337EAE3CE418BB7EC2C40CF3A1EEE@DougPC> Can someone help?? I am using mailman on a hosting package that i purchased. I set up a mailing list and was able to send posts for a while. They were going out to the list members, sending the moderator approval and showing up in the archive. Now this just stopped. I am sending the messages from Microsoft Outlook to the posting address like i did before. I'm not sure what changed? Any suggestions? Douglas F. Edwards From wqin.work at gmail.com Fri Jan 16 07:48:47 2009 From: wqin.work at gmail.com (Wei Qin) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 01:48:47 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman receives, archives, acks message but does not send to list In-Reply-To: <496F6041.6050006@shub-internet.org> References: <496ECC47.40009@gmail.com> <496F6041.6050006@shub-internet.org> Message-ID: <49702DCF.7090906@gmail.com> Brad Knowles wrote: > Wei Qin wrote: > >> The server was set up a year ago and has been functioning properly. >> But recently it no longer broadcasts to the list. The smtp log only >> shows the acknowledgement message, but no multi-recipient broadcasting >> message. Can anyone give a clue? > > Search the Mailman FAQ Wiki for "troubleshooting". > Thanks. I tried everything on the page http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/4.78+Troubleshooting-+No+mail+going+out+to+lists+members but nothing helps. Permission is correct. The qrunners and the MTA are all up and running. Log shows that it is sending out acknowledgements, auto responses, and daily digests fine, but it somehow skips sending the message itself. I tried to strace the outgoingrunner, it does the following when a message is posted. 1. opens the message file in the out folder, 2. opens config.pck, 3. opens another message file in the out folder (seems user notification) 4. opens config.pck again, 5. establish socket connection and sends a message. Apparently, it skips sending the original message file after reading config.pck. I went through the configuration options but couldn't see any option that could have turned off message delivery. What could have gone wrong? Thanks, wqin From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 16 16:37:55 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 07:37:55 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is Not Receiving / Sending my Posts orShowing up in Archive In-Reply-To: <0D6337EAE3CE418BB7EC2C40CF3A1EEE@DougPC> Message-ID: Douglas Edwards wrote: >Can someone help?? I am using mailman on a hosting package that i purchased. >I set up a mailing list and was able to send posts for a while. They were >going out to the list members, sending the moderator approval and showing up >in the archive. Now this just stopped. I am sending the messages from >Microsoft Outlook to the posting address like i did before. I'm not sure >what changed? Any suggestions? Probably one or more of Mailman's qrunners has stopped. You can see the troubleshooting FAQ at , but this is almost certainly something the hosting provider needs to fix. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 16 17:10:12 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 08:10:12 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman receives, archives, acks message but does not send to list In-Reply-To: <49702DCF.7090906@gmail.com> Message-ID: Wei Qin wrote: >Thanks. I tried everything on the page >http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/4.78+Troubleshooting-+No+mail+going+out+to+lists+members > >but nothing helps. Permission is correct. The qrunners and the MTA are >all up and running. Log shows that it is sending out acknowledgements, >auto responses, and daily digests fine, but it somehow skips sending the >message itself. Does the list have any eligible recipients? I.e. is there at least one list member who is a regular, not a digest member, who has delivery enabled, who is not in a To: or Cc: of the message unless avoid dups is not set and who is not the poster if the poster is not set to receive own posts? >I tried to strace the outgoingrunner, it does the following when a >message is posted. >1. opens the message file in the out folder, >2. opens config.pck, >3. opens another message file in the out folder (seems user notification) >4. opens config.pck again, >5. establish socket connection and sends a message. > >Apparently, it skips sending the original message file after reading >config.pck. I went through the configuration options but couldn't see >any option that could have turned off message delivery. What could have >gone wrong? Try stopping OutgoingRunner with a SIGTERM. Then send a post and look at the entries in the out queue with Mailman's bin/dumpdb. dumpdb will show two objects, the message and it's metadata. Is there an entry for the outgoing post? If so, is there anything in the 'recipients' list in the metadata. If so, the post should be sent to those addresses when OutgoingRunner is restarted. If not, either the CalcRecips handler didn't find any eligible recipients or AvoidDups removed them. The cleanest way to restart after this is to stop and then start mailman with bin/mailmanctl. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dpifer at odu.edu Fri Jan 16 19:35:35 2009 From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 13:35:35 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue with text to Mailman list serve In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4970D377.6030208@odu.edu> Hi Mark, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Darren G Pifer wrote: > >> I asked our Exchange administrator to get the message headers. Here is >> that information: >> > > Thanks, but that by itself doesn't tell me much. It does tell me that > Mailman recast the message as multipart mixed, but I already knew > that. I need to see the MIME structure of the entire message including > all the sub-part headers, but even in the absence of that, focus on > the following: > > I think I finally attached the raw message for you. Hopefully you can glean the information you need from it. > Is the non-working list the only one with a msg_header as well as a > msg_footer? If that is the case, try removing the msg_header > completely and see if that helps. > > Did that. This apparently resolved the issue as the admin owner is happy. However, I am not totally convinced that it is a mail client issue. I am seeing 4 parts in my Thunderbird mail client: plain text (header) plain text (body) html (body) plain text (footer) Why would mailman be sending plain text and html attachments? When the header is removed, my Thunderbird mail client shows the email message as plain text and one attachment, the footer. Darren ODU From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 16 20:53:04 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 11:53:04 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue with text to Mailman list serve In-Reply-To: <4970D377.6030208@odu.edu> Message-ID: Darren G Pifer wrote: > >Mark Sapiro wrote: >> >> Thanks, but that by itself doesn't tell me much. It does tell me that >> Mailman recast the message as multipart mixed, but I already knew >> that. I need to see the MIME structure of the entire message including >> all the sub-part headers, but even in the absence of that, focus on >> the following: >> >> >I think I finally attached the raw message for you. Hopefully you can glean >the information you need from it. My comments about this are below. Note to list - the attached message was removed by content filtering, but I received it in my direct copy. I have summarized the saliant points in my reply. >> Is the non-working list the only one with a msg_header as well as a >> msg_footer? If that is the case, try removing the msg_header >> completely and see if that helps. >> >> >Did that. This apparently resolved the issue as the admin owner is happy. >However, I am not totally convinced that it is a mail client issue. I >am seeing 4 parts >in my Thunderbird mail client: > >plain text (header) >plain text (body) >html (body) >plain text (footer) What you are seeing is consistent with the attached message. >Why would mailman be sending plain text and html attachments? When the >header is removed, my Thunderbird mail client shows the email message >as plain text and one attachment, the footer. Did the message below come directly to you from the list or was it forwarded to you. If it came directly from the list, I don't understand it. Note that the second through fourth parts all have headers of the form Content-Type: text/plain; name="ATT00001.c" Content-Description: ATT00001.c Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ATT00001.c"; size=1175; creation-date="Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:50:12 GMT"; modification-date="Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:50:12 GMT" Mailman did not create these headers. What appears to be going on is that this message is received from the list and opened in an MUA that identifies the first part as the message body and the remaining 3 parts as attachments. The message is then forwarded from that MUA resulting in the message you attached. In particular, the last part is the list's msg_footer, and it has part headers: Content-Type: text/plain; name="ATT00003.c" Content-Description: ATT00003.c Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ATT00003.c"; size=218; creation-date="Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:50:12 GMT"; modification-date="Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:50:12 GMT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Mailman would have created that "attachment" with only the headers Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: xxx with the possible addition of a charset parameter on the Content-Type: header, and most likely 7bit or 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding:. All the other headers and the name= parameter were added after the message left Mailman. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From b19141 at anl.gov Fri Jan 16 22:46:52 2009 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:46:52 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preserving S/MIME-Encoded Mail Message-ID: <20090116214652.7AFDA1767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> I have a collegue who is experimenting with signed mail (S/MIME). He sent me a test mail and he also sent it to a test Mailman (2.1.11) list. Here is the basic MIME header structure for the mail sent directly to me: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=SHA1; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01C97713.0AE16F40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C97713.0AE16F40 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_01C97713.0AE16F40" ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C97713.0AE16F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C97713.0AE16F40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <> ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C97713.0AE16F40-- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C97713.0AE16F40 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" <> ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C97713.0AE16F40-- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ And here is the MIME structure after Mailman has processed the mail: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4389576766350830338==" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============4389576766350830338== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=SHA1; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01C97713.0AE16F40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C97713.0AE16F40 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_01C97713.0AE16F40" ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C97713.0AE16F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C97713.0AE16F40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <> ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C97713.0AE16F40-- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C97713.0AE16F40 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" <> ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C97713.0AE16F40-- --===============4389576766350830338== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline <> --===============4389576766350830338==-- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Note that Mailman has taken the existing three-part MIME structure (plain-text body, HTML-formatted body, and digital signature) and instead of placing the list footer as a fourth part in the same MIME structure, Mailman has created a new two-part MIME structure with the original three-part MIME structure as a first part and the list footer as a second part. While this resulting structure is valid MIME-encoding (I think), the result is that the initial header lines Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=SHA1; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01C97713.0AE16F40" are not at the beginning of the MIME structure. I believe that this is causing the mail to appear as an unsigned mail message. I have just begun reading "S/MIME 3.1" RFC 3851, and my initial quick reading leads me to believe that this Content-Type: multipart/signed; header line needs to appear in the first part of the MIME headers and not within a subsidiary MIME header. Is there a reason why Mailman does not place the list footer as a fourth section in the existing MIME structure? Thanks. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Fri Jan 16 23:13:00 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:13:00 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preserving S/MIME-Encoded Mail In-Reply-To: <20090116214652.7AFDA1767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> References: <20090116214652.7AFDA1767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> Message-ID: <4971066C.6030600@riverviewtech.net> On 01/16/09 15:46, Barry Finkel wrote: > Note that Mailman has taken the existing three-part MIME structure > (plain-text body, HTML-formatted body, and digital signature) and > instead of placing the list footer as a fourth part in the same MIME > structure, Mailman has created a new two-part MIME structure with > the original three-part MIME structure as a first part and the list > footer as a second part. While this resulting structure is valid > MIME-encoding (I think), the result is that the initial header lines > are not at the beginning of the MIME structure. I believe that this > is causing the mail to appear as an unsigned mail message. I have just > begun reading "S/MIME 3.1" RFC 3851, and my initial quick reading > leads me to believe that this > > Content-Type: multipart/signed; > > header line needs to appear in the first part of the MIME headers > and not within a subsidiary MIME header. If I recall correctly, S/MIME signed messages are exactly that, signed /messages/ as in the entirety of the email (short of some headers). As such, any form of altering the message will break the S/MIME signature. > Is there a reason why Mailman does not place the list footer as a > fourth section in the existing MIME structure? Thanks. I think the more proper thing would be for something (Mailman or it's MTA interface / handler) to validate S/MIME signed messages and process them before passing them on. I think that if a message has been signed and it has been altered in transport, the fact that it failed authentication should either be noted or the entire message should be rejected out right. Which ever your preference is, I think this issue is really a larger mailing list manager conceptual issue than just something that Mailman is or is not doing. I think a similar mentality applies to S/MIME encrypted (as opposed to signed) messages too. Grant. . . . From brad at shub-internet.org Fri Jan 16 23:27:56 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:27:56 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preserving S/MIME-Encoded Mail In-Reply-To: <4971066C.6030600@riverviewtech.net> References: <20090116214652.7AFDA1767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> <4971066C.6030600@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <497109EC.8030409@shub-internet.org> Grant Taylor wrote: > I think the more proper thing would be for something (Mailman or it's > MTA interface / handler) to validate S/MIME signed messages and process > them before passing them on. Validation could be useful, but the more important issue is to have Mailman completely encapsulate signed/encrypted messages and then add whatever additional MIME bodyparts may be necessary to complete the other parts of the work it has been configured to do. This is true for DKIM, PGP/MIME, and S/MIME alike. And any other form of signed and/or encrypted message. Don't change anything at all in any of the signed/encrypted part, just treat it as an opaque object and encapsulate the whole thing. -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From rich at math.missouri.edu Fri Jan 16 23:30:52 2009 From: rich at math.missouri.edu (Rich Winkel) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:30:52 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists and scrubbed attachments Message-ID: <20090116223052.GA1239@pencil.math.missouri.edu> If someone posts an attachment to an umbrella list, will the subscribers to the sublists be able to access the umbrella attachment archive? Or should umbrella lists never use scrubbing? Thanks, Rich From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Fri Jan 16 23:27:25 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:27:25 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preserving S/MIME-Encoded Mail In-Reply-To: <497109EC.8030409@shub-internet.org> References: <20090116214652.7AFDA1767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> <4971066C.6030600@riverviewtech.net> <497109EC.8030409@shub-internet.org> Message-ID: <497109CD.6090502@riverviewtech.net> On 01/16/09 16:27, Brad Knowles wrote: > Validation could be useful, but the more important issue is to have > Mailman completely encapsulate signed/encrypted messages and then add > whatever additional MIME bodyparts may be necessary to complete the > other parts of the work it has been configured to do. > > This is true for DKIM, PGP/MIME, and S/MIME alike. And any other form > of signed and/or encrypted message. > > Don't change anything at all in any of the signed/encrypted part, just > treat it as an opaque object and encapsulate the whole thing. It sounded like that is what Mailman already did and that by doing so broke the signature. I will have to go back and re-read if it is possible to graft the existing MIME tree in to another larger MIME tree with out invalidating it. Grant. . . . From brad at shub-internet.org Fri Jan 16 23:43:42 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:43:42 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preserving S/MIME-Encoded Mail In-Reply-To: <497109CD.6090502@riverviewtech.net> References: <20090116214652.7AFDA1767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> <4971066C.6030600@riverviewtech.net> <497109EC.8030409@shub-internet.org> <497109CD.6090502@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <49710D9E.7080401@shub-internet.org> Grant Taylor wrote: >> Don't change anything at all in any of the signed/encrypted part, just >> treat it as an opaque object and encapsulate the whole thing. > > It sounded like that is what Mailman already did and that by doing so > broke the signature. I don't think it broke the signature, I think what happened is that it hasn't been encapsulated in the correct manner. > I will have to go back and re-read if it is > possible to graft the existing MIME tree in to another larger MIME tree > with out invalidating it. At the very least, you can do a message/rfc822 bodypart, and that should guarantee that the signature is not broken, assuming that there's no changes in whitespace encoding, etc.... However, I don't know how most MUAs would handle that in a signed message. A more intelligent encapsulation format should hopefully address that issue. -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From danm at prime.gushi.org Sat Jan 17 00:52:40 2009 From: danm at prime.gushi.org (Dan Mahoney, System Admin) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:52:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gratuitous "True". Message-ID: Hey all, After updating to 2.1.11 (from BSD ports, against python2.5), I'm seeing that several of my list archives have the word "True" scattered througout (at the bottoms of tables). Something like this: October 2008: [ Thread ] [ Subject ] [ Author ] True [ Date ] [ Text 556 bytes ] True It would appear that the arch command is printing something it shouldn't be (either a config variable or something else?) Anyone have any idea what could be causing this? -Dan -- [23:49:00] LarpGM: Did my little TP comment scare you off? [23:49:22] ilzarion: no, the shrieking retarded child eating people did -Feb 06, 2001, times apparent. --------Dan Mahoney-------- Techie, Sysadmin, WebGeek Gushi on efnet/undernet IRC ICQ: 13735144 AIM: LarpGM Site: http://www.gushi.org --------------------------- From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 17 03:18:13 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:18:13 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gratuitous "True". In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote: > >After updating to 2.1.11 (from BSD ports, against python2.5), I'm seeing >that several of my list archives have the word "True" scattered througout >(at the bottoms of tables). > >Something like this: > > October 2008: > > [ Thread ] > > [ Subject ] > [ Author ] >True > [ Date ] > I don't know where the "True" is coming from, but comes from Richard Barrett's archive indexer and htdig patches , so I suspect the problem is somehow related. If you installed these patches, I suggest you review what was done there. If they are part of the BSD port, I suggest you contact the packager. Note that I had a 2.1.11 installation with these patches and now have a 2.1.12rc1 installation with these patches and have never seen this, so the issue is not with the patches per se, but may be with how they were applied. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 17 03:40:09 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:40:09 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preserving S/MIME-Encoded Mail In-Reply-To: <20090116214652.7AFDA1767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> Message-ID: Barry Finkel wrote: > >Note that Mailman has taken the existing three-part MIME structure >(plain-text body, HTML-formatted body, and digital signature) and >instead of placing the list footer as a fourth part in the same MIME >structure, Mailman has created a new two-part MIME structure with >the original three-part MIME structure as a first part and the list >footer as a second part. >Is there a reason why Mailman does not place the list footer as a >fourth section in the existing MIME structure? Thanks. Mailman will add msg_header and msg_footer in one of three ways. 1) If the original message is a single text/plain part, Mailman will attempt to convert the message content and the msg_header and/or msg_footer to unicode, concatenate them and encode the result back into the original message character set resulting in a single text/plain part with the header/footer included. If this fails, go to 3. 2) If the original message is multipart/mixed add the msg_header and/or msg_footer as additional MIME parts at the beginning and/or end of the multipart/mixed message. 3) In all other cases, recast the message as multipart/mixed with msg_header if any as the first part, the entire original message structure as the next part and msg_footer if any as the last part. Note that just sticking the header and footer as additional parts into an original multipart, not_mixed message can't be arbitrarily done. Clearly, if the original is multipart/alternative, this won't work and if it is multipart/signed, it would probably break the signature anyway. In any case, the only multipart structure we know for sure we can safely insert extra parts into is multipart/mixed, so we only do it if the original is multi-part mixed. If you think this is wrong, I suggest continuing this thread on Mailman-Developers at python.org. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 17 04:32:53 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 19:32:53 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailbox unavailable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Denny Zulfikar wrote: >I am trying the manual from http://www.list.org/mailman-install/ as is. > >this is my current main.cf config : >------ >local_recipient_maps = $alias_maps $virtual_mailbox_maps unix:passwd.byname >alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases >recipient_delimiter = + >unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550 >------ If this were a Postfix list, I'd ask for the output from postconf -n >this is variable I change in /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py : Don't change anything in Defaults.py. Override settings in mm_cfg.py. See the FAQ at . >------ >DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'domain.com' >DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mail.domain.com' >MTA = 'Postfix' >POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['domain.com'] >------ Is 'domain.com' a Postfix virtual domain or is it local? I.e. is it mentioned in virtual_alias_domains or is in mydestination? If it is in virtual_alias_domains and not in mydestination, then the above is correct, but you also want virtual_alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman in main.cf. If it is a local domain (in mydestination), you do not want POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['domain.com'] in mm_cfg.py, and Defaults.py should always have POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [] in any case. >this is /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases : >------ >mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox > ># STANZA START: crews ># CREATED: Wed Jan 14 11:50:57 2009 >crews: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post crews" >crews-admin: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin crews" >crews-bounces: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces crews" >crews-confirm: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm crews" >crews-join: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join crews" >crews-leave: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave crews" >crews-owner: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner crews" >crews-request: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request crews" >crews-subscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe crews" >crews-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe crews" ># STANZA END: crews >------ > >this is "ps ax" output: >------ > >and, this is result when I try reply invitation mail : >------ >Message not sent. Server replied: > > Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable > 550 5.1.1 : Recipient address rejected: >User unknown >------ > >result from /var/log/mailog : >------ >>>> CHECKING RECIPIENT MAPS <<< >ctable_locate: leave existing entry key crews-request at domain.com >maps_find: recipient_canonical_maps: crews-request at domain.com: not found >maps_find: recipient_canonical_maps: crews-request: not found >maps_find: recipient_canonical_maps: @domain.com: not found >mail_addr_find: crews-request at domain.com -> (not found) >maps_find: canonical_maps: crews-request at domain.com: not found >maps_find: canonical_maps: crews-request: not found >maps_find: canonical_maps: @domain.com: not found >mail_addr_find: crews-request at domain.com -> (not found) >maps_find: virtual_alias_maps: crews-request at domain.com: not found >maps_find: virtual_alias_maps: crews-request: not found >maps_find: virtual_alias_maps: @domain.com: not found >mail_addr_find: crews-request at domain.com -> (not found) >dict_mysql_get_active: attempting to connect to host 127.0.0.1 >dict_mysql: successful connection to host 127.0.0.1 >dict_mysql: successful query from host 127.0.0.1 >dict_mysql_lookup: retrieved 0 rows >maps_find: virtual_mailbox_maps: crews-request at domain.com: not found >dict_mysql_get_active: found active connection to host 127.0.0.1 >dict_mysql: successful query from host 127.0.0.1 >dict_mysql_lookup: retrieved 0 rows >maps_find: virtual_mailbox_maps: crews-request: not found >dict_mysql_get_active: found active connection to host 127.0.0.1 >dict_mysql: successful query from host 127.0.0.1 >dict_mysql_lookup: retrieved 0 rows >maps_find: virtual_mailbox_maps: @domain.com: not found You will note there was no lookup in alias_maps, presumably because 'domain.com' is not local. Thus I think you need to add virtual_alias_domains = domain.com and virtual_alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman in main.cf. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 17 05:00:08 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 20:00:08 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gratuitous "True". In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark Sapiro wrote: >Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote: >> >>After updating to 2.1.11 (from BSD ports, against python2.5), I'm seeing >>that several of my list archives have the word "True" scattered througout >>(at the bottoms of tables). >> >>Something like this: >> >> October 2008: >> >> [ Thread ] >> >> [ Subject ] >> [ Author ] >>True >> [ Date ] >> > > >I don't know where the "True" is coming from, but >comes from Richard Barrett's archive indexer and htdig patches >, so I suspect the problem is >somehow related. If you installed these patches, I suggest you review >what was done there. If they are part of the BSD port, I suggest you >contact the packager. Nevermind... I took a closer look at my own archives and I see it is related to Richard's patches, but it is not the patch that's the problem. The 'True' is supposed to be "" The problem is that you have (probably in mm_cfg.py, but maybe in Defaults.py) ARCHIVE_INDEXING_ENABLE = 'True' instead of or overriding ARCHIVE_INDEXING_ENABLE = '' -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From danm at prime.gushi.org Sat Jan 17 05:35:47 2009 From: danm at prime.gushi.org (Dan Mahoney, System Admin) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 23:35:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gratuitous "True". In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Jan 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote: > I took a closer look at my own archives and I see it is related to > Richard's patches, but it is not the patch that's the problem. The > 'True' is supposed to be "" The problem is that > you have (probably in mm_cfg.py, but maybe in Defaults.py) > > ARCHIVE_INDEXING_ENABLE = 'True' > > instead of or overriding > > ARCHIVE_INDEXING_ENABLE = '' Yup, I found that -- it took me a while because of the variables, I actually had ARCHIVE_INDEXING_ENABLE=1, and I was grepping all my configs and the patches for "True". I also found a bug in his docs with at least one variable he's not documenting right. Also, can you see why one would think that these lines would be a boolean? -Dan -- "If you need web space, give him a hard drive. If you need to do something really heavy, build him a computer." -Ilzarion, late friday night --------Dan Mahoney-------- Techie, Sysadmin, WebGeek Gushi on efnet/undernet IRC ICQ: 13735144 AIM: LarpGM Site: http://www.gushi.org --------------------------- From dennyzulfikar at gmail.com Sat Jan 17 00:26:11 2009 From: dennyzulfikar at gmail.com (Denny Zulfikar) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 06:26:11 +0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailbox unavailable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am trying the manual from http://www.list.org/mailman-install/ as is. this is my current main.cf config : ------ local_recipient_maps = $alias_maps $virtual_mailbox_maps unix:passwd.byname alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases recipient_delimiter = + unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550 ------ this is variable I change in /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py : ------ DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'domain.com' DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mail.domain.com' MTA = 'Postfix' POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['domain.com'] ------ this is /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases : ------ mailman-loop: /var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox # STANZA START: crews # CREATED: Wed Jan 14 11:50:57 2009 crews: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post crews" crews-admin: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin crews" crews-bounces: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces crews" crews-confirm: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm crews" crews-join: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join crews" crews-leave: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave crews" crews-owner: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner crews" crews-request: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request crews" crews-subscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe crews" crews-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe crews" # STANZA END: crews ------ this is "ps ax" output: ------ 10486 ? S 0:00 /usr/local/sbin/courierlogger -pid=/usr/local/var/spool/authdaemon/pid -start /usr/local/libexec/courier-authlib/authdaemond 10487 ? S 0:00 /usr/local/libexec/courier-authlib/authdaemond 10489 ? S 0:00 /usr/local/libexec/courier-authlib/authdaemond 10490 ? S 0:00 /usr/local/libexec/courier-authlib/authdaemond 10491 ? S 0:00 /usr/local/libexec/courier-authlib/authdaemond 10492 ? S 0:00 /usr/local/libexec/courier-authlib/authdaemond 10493 ? S 0:00 /usr/local/libexec/courier-authlib/authdaemond 10498 ? S 0:00 /usr/local/sbin/courierlogger -pid=/var/run/imapd.pid -start -name=imapd /usr/lib/courier-imap/libexec/couriertcpd -address=0 -maxprocs=40 -maxperip=4 -nodnslookup -noidentlookup 143 /usr/lib/courier-imap/sbin/imaplogin /usr/lib/courier-imap/bin/imapd Maildir 10499 ? S 0:00 /usr/lib/courier-imap/libexec/couriertcpd -address=0 -maxprocs=40 -maxperip=4 -nodnslookup -noidentlookup 143 /usr/lib/courier-imap/sbin/imaplogin /usr/lib/courier-imap/bin/imapd Maildir 10505 ? S 0:00 /usr/local/sbin/courierlogger -pid=/var/run/imapd-ssl.pid -start -name=imapd-ssl /usr/lib/courier-imap/libexec/couriertcpd -address=0 -maxprocs=40 -maxperip=4 -nodnslookup -noidentlookup 993 /usr/lib/courier-imap/bin/couriertls -server -tcpd /usr/lib/courier-imap/sbin/imaplogin /usr/lib/courier-imap/bin/imapd Maildir 10506 ? S 0:00 /usr/lib/courier-imap/libexec/couriertcpd -address=0 -maxprocs=40 -maxperip=4 -nodnslookup -noidentlookup 993 /usr/lib/courier-imap/bin/couriertls -server -tcpd /usr/lib/courier-imap/sbin/imaplogin /usr/lib/courier-imap/bin/imapd Maildir 10511 ? S 0:00 /usr/local/sbin/courierlogger -pid=/var/run/pop3d.pid -start -name=pop3d /usr/lib/courier-imap/libexec/couriertcpd -address=0 -maxprocs=40 -maxperip=4 -nodnslookup -noidentlookup 110 /usr/lib/courier-imap/sbin/pop3login /usr/lib/courier-imap/bin/pop3d Maildir 10512 ? S 0:00 /usr/lib/courier-imap/libexec/couriertcpd -address=0 -maxprocs=40 -maxperip=4 -nodnslookup -noidentlookup 110 /usr/lib/courier-imap/sbin/pop3login /usr/lib/courier-imap/bin/pop3d Maildir 10517 ? S 0:00 /usr/local/sbin/courierlogger -pid=/var/run/pop3d-ssl.pid -start -name=pop3d-ssl /usr/lib/courier-imap/libexec/couriertcpd -address=0 -maxprocs=40 -maxperip=4 -nodnslookup -noidentlookup 995 /usr/lib/courier-imap/bin/couriertls -server -tcpd /usr/lib/courier-imap/sbin/pop3login /usr/lib/courier-imap/bin/pop3d Maildir 10518 ? S 0:00 /usr/lib/courier-imap/libexec/couriertcpd -address=0 -maxprocs=40 -maxperip=4 -nodnslookup -noidentlookup 995 /usr/lib/courier-imap/bin/couriertls -server -tcpd /usr/lib/courier-imap/sbin/pop3login /usr/lib/courier-imap/bin/pop3d Maildir 10568 ? Ss 0:00 /usr/libexec/postfix/master 10631 ? Ss 0:00 /usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start 10632 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s 10633 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s 10634 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s 10635 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s 10636 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s 10637 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s 10638 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s 10639 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s ------ and, this is result when I try reply invitation mail : ------ Message not sent. Server replied: Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable 550 5.1.1 : Recipient address rejected: User unknown ------ result from /var/log/mailog : ------ >>> CHECKING RECIPIENT MAPS <<< ctable_locate: leave existing entry key crews-request at domain.com maps_find: recipient_canonical_maps: crews-request at domain.com: not found maps_find: recipient_canonical_maps: crews-request: not found maps_find: recipient_canonical_maps: @domain.com: not found mail_addr_find: crews-request at domain.com -> (not found) maps_find: canonical_maps: crews-request at domain.com: not found maps_find: canonical_maps: crews-request: not found maps_find: canonical_maps: @domain.com: not found mail_addr_find: crews-request at domain.com -> (not found) maps_find: virtual_alias_maps: crews-request at domain.com: not found maps_find: virtual_alias_maps: crews-request: not found maps_find: virtual_alias_maps: @domain.com: not found mail_addr_find: crews-request at domain.com -> (not found) dict_mysql_get_active: attempting to connect to host 127.0.0.1 dict_mysql: successful connection to host 127.0.0.1 dict_mysql: successful query from host 127.0.0.1 dict_mysql_lookup: retrieved 0 rows maps_find: virtual_mailbox_maps: crews-request at domain.com: not found dict_mysql_get_active: found active connection to host 127.0.0.1 dict_mysql: successful query from host 127.0.0.1 dict_mysql_lookup: retrieved 0 rows maps_find: virtual_mailbox_maps: crews-request: not found dict_mysql_get_active: found active connection to host 127.0.0.1 dict_mysql: successful query from host 127.0.0.1 dict_mysql_lookup: retrieved 0 rows maps_find: virtual_mailbox_maps: @domain.com: not found mail_addr_find: crews-request at domain.com -> (not found) NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from localhost[127.0.0.1]: 550 5.1.1 : Recipient address rejected: User unknown; from= to= proto=ESMTP helo= > localhost[127.0.0.1]: 550 5.1.1 : Recipient address rejected: User unknown smtp_get: EOF ------ I am sorry have make this email not comfort to read. Thats all my problem. Maybe I miss something from these config? Anybody can give suggestions please? Thanks BR Denny On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 11:55 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Denny Zulfikar wrote: >> >>error on reply invitation mail: >>Message not sent. Server replied: Requested action not taken: mailbox >>unavailable >>550 5.1.1 : Recipient address rejected: User unknown >> >>error on send to a list (after approved by click the url on invitation mail): >>Message not sent. Server replied: Requested action not taken: mailbox >>unavailable >>550 5.1.1 : Recipient address rejected: User unknown > > > You haven't installed Mailman's aliases in postfix or you haven't > properly configured Mailman/Postfix integration. See > . > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > From shop at justbrits.com Fri Jan 16 10:42:26 2009 From: shop at justbrits.com (Ed's Shop) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 03:42:26 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is Not Receiving / Sending my Posts orShowing up in Archive In-Reply-To: <0D6337EAE3CE418BB7EC2C40CF3A1EEE@DougPC> Message-ID: <> Behind cPanel, Doug?? Ed From walter at cedarmountainsoftware.com Sat Jan 17 23:25:48 2009 From: walter at cedarmountainsoftware.com (Walter) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:25:48 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gathering additional iniformation at signup Message-ID: <007d01c978f2$8e218530$4101a8c0@karl> I have just started using Mailman and wish to add fields (user title, organization) that must be filled out upon subscription and available to the list moderator for approval. I can easily change the subscription form, adding these fields, but where do I go to modify the approval process to display them? I looked thru the archives and I'm guessing that I have to customize something in the admin pages, but where do I begin? Thanks. From wqin.work at gmail.com Fri Jan 16 19:33:13 2009 From: wqin.work at gmail.com (Wei Qin) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 13:33:13 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman receives, archives, acks message but does not send to list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4970D2E9.5060007@gmail.com> Thank you, Mark. The problem is resolved now. It was due to the selection of the "not metoo" option, and also the mysterious message loss related to gmail's inbox. wqin Mark Sapiro wrote: > Wei Qin wrote: > >> Thanks. I tried everything on the page >> http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/4.78+Troubleshooting-+No+mail+going+out+to+lists+members >> >> but nothing helps. Permission is correct. The qrunners and the MTA are >> all up and running. Log shows that it is sending out acknowledgements, >> auto responses, and daily digests fine, but it somehow skips sending the >> message itself. > > > Does the list have any eligible recipients? I.e. is there at least one > list member who is a regular, not a digest member, who has delivery > enabled, who is not in a To: or Cc: of the message unless avoid dups > is not set and who is not the poster if the poster is not set to > receive own posts? > > > >> I tried to strace the outgoingrunner, it does the following when a >> message is posted. >> 1. opens the message file in the out folder, >> 2. opens config.pck, >> 3. opens another message file in the out folder (seems user notification) >> 4. opens config.pck again, >> 5. establish socket connection and sends a message. >> >> Apparently, it skips sending the original message file after reading >> config.pck. I went through the configuration options but couldn't see >> any option that could have turned off message delivery. What could have >> gone wrong? > > > Try stopping OutgoingRunner with a SIGTERM. Then send a post and look > at the entries in the out queue with Mailman's bin/dumpdb. dumpdb will > show two objects, the message and it's metadata. Is there an entry for > the outgoing post? If so, is there anything in the 'recipients' list > in the metadata. If so, the post should be sent to those addresses > when OutgoingRunner is restarted. If not, either the CalcRecips > handler didn't find any eligible recipients or AvoidDups removed them. > > The cleanest way to restart after this is to stop and then start > mailman with bin/mailmanctl. > -- Wei Qin Assistant Professor ECE Department Boston University 8 St. Mary's Street Boston, MA 01760 (617)358-3641 From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jan 18 20:05:15 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:05:15 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gathering additional iniformation at signup In-Reply-To: <007d01c978f2$8e218530$4101a8c0@karl> Message-ID: Walter wrote: >I have just started using Mailman and wish to add fields (user title, organization) that must be filled out upon subscription and available to the list moderator for approval. I can easily change the subscription form, adding these fields, but where do I go to modify the approval process to display them? I looked thru the archives and I'm guessing that I have to customize something in the admin pages, but where do I begin? Thanks. This question is probably more appropriate for the mailman-developers at python.org list, but ... This kind of information is kept in a UserDesc instance during the subscribe process. This class is defined in Mailman/UserDesc.py and you would probably need to augment its methods to account for your new items. This class is imported in all the following modules which would at least need to be reviewed. Mailman/Cgi/admin.py Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py Mailman/ListAdmin.py Mailman/MailList.py bin/sync_members tests/test_membership.py This kind of information is also kept in the list's request.pck file for subscriptions waiting confirmation or approval. Thus, the SUBSCRIPTION request record is affected and this potentially affects the following modules. Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py Mailman/ListAdmin.py bin/update cron/checkdbs In other words, this is not a simple change. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Sun Jan 18 20:28:57 2009 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:28:57 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gathering additional iniformation at signup In-Reply-To: <007d01c978f2$8e218530$4101a8c0@karl> References: <007d01c978f2$8e218530$4101a8c0@karl> Message-ID: <20090118192857.GC3369@amyl.org.uk> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 03:25:48PM -0700, Walter wrote: > I have just started using Mailman and wish to add fields (user title, > organization) that must be filled out upon subscription and available > to the list moderator for approval. I can easily change the > subscription form, adding these fields, but where do I go to modify > the approval process to display them? I looked thru the archives and > I'm guessing that I have to customize something in the admin pages, > but where do I begin? Thanks. Setting your MUA to line-wrap would be nice. For all of what you're after, I'd be inclined to take the (extra) data, and shove it in a database somewhere. (Use something (perl, php, python, ruby...) to display the data to authenticated users, via their web browser(s).) In one set-up, I'm completely by-passing Mailman's web subscription, and handling subscriptions via some perl, MySQL, and the listname-subscribe part; it works quite well for us. -- ``DO YOU HAVE A PARTNER? By partner we mean someone you habitually lie to, apart from us.'' (application form, from the `Department of Social Scrutiny') From campbell at cnpapers.com Mon Jan 19 17:33:53 2009 From: campbell at cnpapers.com (Steve Campbell) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:33:53 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to manually get a list of passwords for all members to be sent to the administration Message-ID: <4974AB71.3010205@cnpapers.com> The subject line states the full question, but, I'd like to get a list of passwords for all the members to be sent to the administrator. I usually mass subscribe them in the form Common name so I don't have the option to insert the password and don't know them. At least I'm not aware of how to do it. Also, is there a way to add the preferred password when mass adding names? I'm running 2.1.5. Thanks Steve Campbell From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 19 20:07:55 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:07:55 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to manually get a list of passwords for allmembers to be sent to the administration In-Reply-To: <4974AB71.3010205@cnpapers.com> Message-ID: Steve Campbell wrote: >The subject line states the full question, but, > >I'd like to get a list of passwords for all the members to be sent to >the administrator. There are no existing tools to do this. The attached passwd.patch.txt file contains a patch to bin/list_members to add a "passwords" option which will display the passwords. >I usually mass subscribe them in the form > >Common name > >so I don't have the option to insert the password and don't know them. >At least I'm not aware of how to do it. > >Also, is there a way to add the preferred password when mass adding names? Not with the web admin mass subscribe. or the existing command line tools. bin/add_members could be modified to accept a password. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: passwd.patch.txt URL: From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Mon Jan 19 21:07:29 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:07:29 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to manually get a list of passwords for allmembers to be sent to the administration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4974DD81.7070803@riverviewtech.net> On 01/19/09 13:07, Mark Sapiro wrote: > The attached passwd.patch.txt file contains a patch to > bin/list_members to add a "passwords" option which will display the > passwords. Hum. I take it from the fact that the patched version of bin/list_members can display passwords that the passwords them selves are stored in reversible encryption. (I'm presuming that they are encrypted...) I do question the feasibility of this. Though if security mindedness was used, what the OP is requesting would not be possible. > Not with the web admin mass subscribe. or the existing command line > tools. Wouldn't it be possible to extend both the web interface and command line tools to be able to accept some sort of delimited string that includes the password, something like /etc/password is colon ":" delimited, or similar. Grant. . . . From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 19 21:35:45 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:35:45 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to manually get a list of passwordsfor allmembers to be sent to the administration In-Reply-To: <4974DD81.7070803@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: Grant Taylor wrote: >On 01/19/09 13:07, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> The attached passwd.patch.txt file contains a patch to >> bin/list_members to add a "passwords" option which will display the >> passwords. > >Hum. I take it from the fact that the patched version of >bin/list_members can display passwords that the passwords them selves >are stored in reversible encryption. (I'm presuming that they are >encrypted...) I do question the feasibility of this. Though if >security mindedness was used, what the OP is requesting would not be >possible. It is also possible to send a password reminder, so this should not be a surprise. And no, the member passwords are not encrypted, reversibly or otherwise. The list admin and moderator passwords are "irreversibly" encrypted. This will change in Mailman 3. All passwords will be encrypted. >> Not with the web admin mass subscribe. or the existing command line >> tools. > >Wouldn't it be possible to extend both the web interface and command >line tools to be able to accept some sort of delimited string that >includes the password, something like /etc/password is colon ":" >delimited, or similar. Of course. In fact the next sentence which you dropped from your quote said "bin/add_members could be modified to accept a password." -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From vancleef at lostwells.net Mon Jan 19 21:38:29 2009 From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:38:29 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gathering additional iniformation at signup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200901192038.n0JKcTGb014834@julie.lostwells.net> The esteemed Mark Sapiro has said: > > Walter wrote: > > >I have just started using Mailman and wish to add fields (user title, organization) that must be filled out upon subscription and available to the list moderator for approval. I can easily change the subscription form, adding these fields, but where do I go to modify the approval process to display them? I looked thru the archives and I'm guessing that I have to customize something in the admin pages, but where do I begin? Thanks. > > > This question is probably more appropriate for the > mailman-developers at python.org list, but ... > > This kind of information is kept in a UserDesc instance during the > subscribe process. This class is defined in Mailman/UserDesc.py and > you would probably need to augment its methods to account for your new > items. > > This class is imported in all the following modules which would at > least need to be reviewed. > > Mailman/Cgi/admin.py > Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py > Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py > Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py > Mailman/ListAdmin.py > Mailman/MailList.py > bin/sync_members > tests/test_membership.py > > This kind of information is also kept in the list's request.pck file > for subscriptions waiting confirmation or approval. Thus, the > SUBSCRIPTION request record is affected and this potentially affects > the following modules. > > Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py > Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py > Mailman/ListAdmin.py > bin/update > cron/checkdbs > > In other words, this is not a simple change. > I'm another Mailman admin who needs a totally non-standard subscription mechanism. Currently, all of the Mailman subscription stuff from the listinfo.html page is disabled with a custom page with a link out to a site-specific form which gets mailed back to the list admins. New subscribers get added manually through the mass subscription page. I see a couple of other people who need a similar mechanism. While our method works for us, with our low turnover, the underlying Python doesn't like our changes, but things work well enough anyway. I've given some thought to redoing things so that a custom page can link out to a non-Mailman process, then return the mail address and real name to Mailman as an approved subscription for Mailman processing. As you point out, Mark, this is probably a topic for mailman-developers. Thus far I've assumed that any work I did here would be strictly site-specific. But if there is a real need for a customized subscription mechanism beyond what is currently in Mailman, we might consider something better than local band-aids. Hank From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Mon Jan 19 21:41:38 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:41:38 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to manually get a list of passwordsfor allmembers to be sent to the administration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4974E582.3040009@riverviewtech.net> On 01/19/09 14:35, Mark Sapiro wrote: > It is also possible to send a password reminder, so this should not be > a surprise. And no, the member passwords are not encrypted, reversibly > or otherwise. The list admin and moderator passwords are > "irreversibly" encrypted. *nod* > This will change in Mailman 3. All passwords will be encrypted. Are the list admin and moderator passwords going to stay irreversible, or will they fall down to the same reversible encryption that the rest of the passwords will use? > Of course. In fact the next sentence which you dropped from your quote > said "bin/add_members could be modified to accept a password." *nod* I was referring to the ""packing of information that could possibly be used by both the command line (bin/add_members) and the web interface. I figured it would be trivial to extend one tool, but would the extension carry over to another tool. Grant. . . . From Jan at Bytesmiths.com Mon Jan 19 22:18:49 2009 From: Jan at Bytesmiths.com (Jan Steinman) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:18:49 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gathering additional iniformation at signup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <413912C2-09A3-41BB-A10B-813FB215E3DB@Bytesmiths.com> > From: Hank van Cleef > > The esteemed Mark Sapiro has said: >> >> Walter wrote: >> >>> I have just started using Mailman and wish to add fields (user >>> title, organization) that must be filled out upon subscription... >> >> In other words, this is not a simple change. > > ... I've > given some thought to redoing things so that a custom page can link > out to a non-Mailman process, then return the mail address and real > name to Mailman as an approved subscription for Mailman processing... This is not terribly difficult to do, if you have some basic HTML programming experience. One could (for example) build a POST form to gather all the information, then in the POST target file, scrape off all the extra info, stuff it in a database, then POST the name and email address to the appropriate Mailman page. I posted how to do the latter some time ago:
So just add your additional fields, then change the "action" URL to a PHP (or your web language of choice) page that gathers your info and gets it to you in your desired form, then POSTS the "fullname" and "email" fields to Mailman. And Bob's your uncle! If you don't have the skills, I would be willing to contract the solution for you. Depending on how picky you are and how much customization you want, it could be thirty minutes or thirty days of work... :-) :::: Giving society cheap, abundant energy at this point would be the equivalent of giving an idiot child a machine gun. -- Paul Ehrlich :::: :::: Jan Steinman :::: From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 19 22:24:51 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:24:51 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to manually get a list of passwords for all members to be sent to the administration In-Reply-To: <4974E582.3040009@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: Grant Taylor wrote: > >I was referring to the ""packing of information that could possibly be >used by both the command line (bin/add_members) and the web interface. >I figured it would be trivial to extend one tool, but would the >extension carry over to another tool. Good point. Unfortunately, the current implementation doesn't lend itself to that. While each tool (admin mass subscribe, bin/add_members and bin/sync_members) that does bulk adds currently uses a common function to parse the input into name and address, that function is part of the Python email library and would have to be replaced by some other, possibly Mailman specific, function to handle the password. Further, the parsing and resultant passing of the parsed values is done in the tool, not in the underlying method which adds the member, so each tool would have to be modified individually anyway. Of course, it this were to be done, there should be a common syntax for optionally adding the password information. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Mon Jan 19 23:01:31 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:01:31 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to manually get a list of passwords for all members to be sent to the administration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4974F83B.40001@riverviewtech.net> Somewhat off topic so skip this email if you want to. On 01/19/09 15:24, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Good point. Unfortunately, the current implementation doesn't lend > itself to that. While each tool (admin mass subscribe, > bin/add_members and bin/sync_members) that does bulk adds currently > uses a common function to parse the input into name and address, that > function is part of the Python email library and would have to be > replaced by some other, possibly Mailman specific, function to handle > the password. Further, the parsing and resultant passing of the > parsed values is done in the tool, not in the underlying method which > adds the member, so each tool would have to be modified individually > anyway. Ok... It is my (mis)understanding that this is one of the nice things about Object Oriented programming languages like Python in such as it is possible to have a new class inherit a parent's class and then extend it. I would think that this type of things would lend its self to this, maybe not. If it did, you would just start referencing the new extended class object rather than the one built in to Python. But seeing what I think of OO, and to some extent Python, I may be speaking out my . > Of course, it this were to be done, there should be a common syntax > for optionally adding the password information. *nod* So the question becomes, is it worth the effort to provide future functionality, something that I can't answer. Grant. . . . From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 20 00:07:56 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:07:56 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT How to manually get a list of passwords for all members to be sent to the administration In-Reply-To: <4974F83B.40001@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: Grant Taylor wrote: >Somewhat off topic so skip this email if you want to. And this reply is equally OT >Ok... It is my (mis)understanding that this is one of the nice things >about Object Oriented programming languages like Python in such as it is >possible to have a new class inherit a parent's class and then extend >it. I would think that this type of things would lend its self to this, >maybe not. If it did, you would just start referencing the new extended >class object rather than the one built in to Python. But seeing what I >think of OO, and to some extent Python, I may be speaking out my . Each of the tools imports the Python email package and calls email.Utils.getaddresses() to parse an input line into name and address. This is a utility function, not a class method, but that's really irrelevant to this issue. The issue is in the design of Mailman each of these bulk add tools parses the input and passes the result to the underlying list method to add the member. Had it been designed to pass the raw input to a single method, that method alone could be enhanced to parse out a password, but that isn't how it's done. Thus, each tool needs to be modified in some, albeit simple, way to do this. Even if the argument parsing was a class method, and a subclass was defined that extended the method, the individual tools would still have to be changed to reference the subclass and make use of the "password" result. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From stephen at xemacs.org Tue Jan 20 04:04:03 2009 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:04:03 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to manually get a list of passwords for all members to be sent to the administration In-Reply-To: <4974F83B.40001@riverviewtech.net> References: <4974F83B.40001@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <8763kaznj0.fsf@xemacs.org> Grant Taylor writes: > Ok... It is my (mis)understanding that this is one of the nice things > about Object Oriented programming languages like Python in such as it is > possible to have a new class inherit a parent's class and then extend > it. I would think that this type of things would lend its self to this, It does. However, it has to be designed in, and Mailman was originally designed in a much more friendly Internet for use by communities of friendly users. Once the code has been written, however, changing the design becomes what is called "refactoring", which requires orders of magnitude more effort because you not only have to decide what is desirable, but you must also make sure that everything that used to work continue to work, even if it wasn't part of the original design, because somebody found out how to make it do something useful. :-) This effort is sufficiently large that when it is done there is invariably a major version bump. Ie, this is what Mailman 3 is all about. In fact, changes have been made to Mailman 3 to make exactly this kind of thing easier to add in a way that is consistent from the user's (ie, the list admin in this case) perspective. I suggest you ask on Mailman Developers if your use case has been taken into account. I don't think the user database integration has proceeded very far, so now is a good time to make feature requests. (I don't speak for Barry, of course.) From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Tue Jan 20 05:19:58 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:19:58 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preserving S/MIME-Encoded Mail In-Reply-To: <49710D9E.7080401@shub-internet.org> References: <20090116214652.7AFDA1767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> <4971066C.6030600@riverviewtech.net> <497109EC.8030409@shub-internet.org> <497109CD.6090502@riverviewtech.net> <49710D9E.7080401@shub-internet.org> Message-ID: <497550EE.50804@riverviewtech.net> On 01/16/2009 04:43 PM, Brad Knowles wrote: > I don't think it broke the signature, I think what happened is that it > hasn't been encapsulated in the correct manner. *nod* > At the very least, you can do a message/rfc822 bodypart, and that should > guarantee that the signature is not broken, assuming that there's no > changes in whitespace encoding, etc.... > > However, I don't know how most MUAs would handle that in a signed > message. A more intelligent encapsulation format should hopefully > address that issue. Agreed. I'm not sure how receiving MUAs would handle this. I know that a message/rfc822 MIME body part is how messages are forwarded (as attachments) so they should be ok. At least I can forward a message as a message/rfc822 MIME body part and then later strip away everything but the contents of the message/rfc822 MIME body part and the message will then be able to be validated again. I will play with forwarding an S/MIME signed / encrypted message and let you know what my MUAs (of choice) do with the message/rfc822 MIME body part. Grant. . . . From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Tue Jan 20 05:28:08 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:28:08 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preserving S/MIME-Encoded Mail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497552D8.8010405@riverviewtech.net> On 01/16/2009 08:40 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Note that just sticking the header and footer as additional parts > into an original multipart, not_mixed message can't be arbitrarily > done. Clearly, if the original is multipart/alternative, this won't > work and if it is multipart/signed, it would probably break the > signature anyway. I completely agree. > In any case, the only multipart structure we know for sure we can > safely insert extra parts into is multipart/mixed, so we only do it > if the original is multi-part mixed. If you think this is wrong, I > suggest continuing this thread on Mailman-Developers at python.org. As nice as it would be to possibly do something else, I think that Mailman (or at least the above logic) is very sound. I would love to see another option, possibly like some alteration of text/plain and / or text/html in side of a multipart/alternative block, but then again, that is a lot of work, some of which may be extremely futile and possibly break the html code in the text/html part to a point that it completely messes up the message. Further, you should not alter one multipart/alternative and not others, so this effectively means that you don't alter any of them. Grant. . . . From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Tue Jan 20 06:12:12 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 23:12:12 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preserving S/MIME-Encoded Mail In-Reply-To: <497550EE.50804@riverviewtech.net> References: <20090116214652.7AFDA1767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> <4971066C.6030600@riverviewtech.net> <497109EC.8030409@shub-internet.org> <497109CD.6090502@riverviewtech.net> <49710D9E.7080401@shub-internet.org> <497550EE.50804@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <49755D2C.5090901@riverviewtech.net> On 1/19/2009 10:19 PM, Taylor, Grant wrote: > I will play with forwarding an S/MIME signed / encrypted message and > let you know what my MUAs (of choice) do with the message/rfc822 MIME > body part. I just sent my self an S/MIME signed message and then forwarded it as an attachment (message/rfc822). When I read the forwarded message in line (preview pane or opening the forwarding message) I can read the forwarded message, but it has no indication that the forwarded message is signed. I have to actually open the forwarded attached signed message in it's own window to have any indication if the signature is valid or not. Encrypted (as opposed to signed) messages behaved the same way. The same holds true for a forward of the forward of the original signed / encrypted message. This means that it is possible to enclose a multipart/signed message as a message/rfc822 MIME part and have it successfully display. The only problem is that the attachments them selves would have to be opened (as opposed to viewing them inline) to have any indication if the signature is valid. Thus I think that Mailman (or any thing else doing similar types of operations) should attach the original signed message as a message/rfc822 MIME part *AND* sign it's own message including a textual note that the original message had a valid signature. This way, by the fact that the message that is received is signed (thus more or less trusted) and stating that the original message had a valid signature. Further if recipients want to verify this, they can open the attached message/rfc822 MIME part and verify for them selves. At least this is how Thunderbird and Outlook Express behaves. Grant. . . . From grant.robinson at iaidq.org Mon Jan 19 12:21:14 2009 From: grant.robinson at iaidq.org (Grant Robinson [IAIDQ]) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:21:14 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change of domain for existing mailman list Message-ID: <4974622A.7050407@iaidq.org> I previously used forum at domain.org as the email address for my mailman list, set up via Cpanel. So the list is known as forum_domain.org For various reasons I changed the email service of my domain.org to Gmail with the MX records, and now forum at domain.org does not work with mailman any more Is it possible to rename the mailman folders and configuration to run in a subdomain with email address forum at forum.domain.org retaining the archive? Surely someone has changed domain names before and ported their mailman installation. We just can;t find this on the online doco or discussion forum/fora. -- --- Cheers Grant Robinson From jknowlton at vp44.com Mon Jan 19 11:52:46 2009 From: jknowlton at vp44.com (jknowlton at vp44.com) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:52:46 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doesnt deliver after server migration Message-ID: Hi all. I recently moved my mailman installation to a new server and now the lists refuse to work. Emails to the lists enter postfix and are delivered to the mailman service but won't be forwarded to the subscribers. I'm pretty sure it must be a permissions problem but I ran several times (as root and as user "list") check_perms -f and it says all is fixed. The web interface for the archives works ok. This is my error log: Jan 19 11:33:19 2009 (1838) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/lists/sottomessi/digest.mbox' Jan 19 11:33:19 2009 (1838) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 77, in process mboxfp = open(mboxfile, 'a+') IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/lists/sottomessi/digest.mbox' Jan 19 11:33:19 2009 (1838) SHUNTING: 1232361198.639926+de15be9465eda20d7e81b720ee14e85fd1ff7232 Thanks. -JK From brad at shub-internet.org Tue Jan 20 08:08:42 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 01:08:42 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change of domain for existing mailman list In-Reply-To: <4974622A.7050407@iaidq.org> References: <4974622A.7050407@iaidq.org> Message-ID: <4975787A.3000409@shub-internet.org> on 1/19/09 5:21 AM, Grant Robinson [IAIDQ] said: > I previously used forum at domain.org as the email address for my mailman > list, set up via Cpanel. FAQ 6.11 in the Mailman FAQ Wiki at explains the problems with cPanel in general. > Is it possible to rename the mailman folders and configuration to run in > a subdomain with email address forum at forum.domain.org retaining the > archive? > > Surely someone has changed domain names before and ported their mailman > installation. We just can;t find this on the online doco or discussion > forum/fora. In general, Mailman does not allow you to change the name of a list. If you want to do that, you have to create a new list with the appropriate changes, then bring over all the subscribers and delete the old list. If you are a list owner as opposed to the site administrator, you will not be able to copy over the archives of the old list. You would need the assistance of the site administrator to do that. However, cPanel made some changes to the way that lists were handled, to allow for encoding the domain name within the list name. So, they may have also made changes to the code with regards to changing list names. You would need to contact your provider or use cPanel resources (as explained in FAQ 6.11) in order to answer those cPanel-specific questions. -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 20 09:00:54 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 00:00:54 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doesnt deliver after server migration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: jknowlton at vp44.com wrote: >I'm pretty sure it must be a permissions problem but I ran several times >(as root and as user "list") check_perms -f and it says all is fixed. >The web interface for the archives works ok. It appears to be permissions on /var/lib/mailman/lists/sottomessi/digest.mbox. Prior to Mailman 2.1.12rc1 there was a bug in check_perms in that it didn't check digest.mbox files. This file must be in mailman's group and group writable. >This is my error log: > >Jan 19 11:33:19 2009 (1838) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13] >Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/lists/sottomessi/digest.mbox' >Jan 19 11:33:19 2009 (1838) Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop > self._onefile(msg, msgdata) > File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile > keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) > File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in >_dispose > more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline) > File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in >_dopipeline > sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata) > File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 77, in process > mboxfp = open(mboxfile, 'a+') >IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: >'/var/lib/mailman/lists/sottomessi/digest.mbox' > >Jan 19 11:33:19 2009 (1838) SHUNTING: >1232361198.639926+de15be9465eda20d7e81b720ee14e85fd1ff7232 -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From stephen at xemacs.org Tue Jan 20 10:46:18 2009 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:46:18 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preserving S/MIME-Encoded Mail In-Reply-To: <49755D2C.5090901@riverviewtech.net> References: <20090116214652.7AFDA1767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> <4971066C.6030600@riverviewtech.net> <497109EC.8030409@shub-internet.org> <497109CD.6090502@riverviewtech.net> <49710D9E.7080401@shub-internet.org> <497550EE.50804@riverviewtech.net> <49755D2C.5090901@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <87y6x6s42d.fsf@xemacs.org> Grant Taylor writes: > On 1/19/2009 10:19 PM, Taylor, Grant wrote: > > I will play with forwarding an S/MIME signed / encrypted message and > > let you know what my MUAs (of choice) do with the message/rfc822 MIME > > body part. This isn't really relevant to Mailman, though. MIME messages are by design recursively structured, and MUAs that claim to support S/MIME should be able to handle recursive structure. The only responsibility Mailman has or should accept is to encapsulate signed bodies verbatim so as not to break the signature. > This means that it is possible to enclose a multipart/signed message as > a message/rfc822 MIME part and have it successfully display. The only > problem is that the attachments them selves would have to be opened (as > opposed to viewing them inline) to have any indication if the signature > is valid. The user should put in an RFE for your MUA if that extra effort bothers him. If he hasn't validated the signature himself, he has to assume that it is invalid. This is not a task that can be delegated to mailing list software. > Thus I think that Mailman (or any thing else doing similar > types of operations) should attach the original signed message as a > message/rfc822 MIME part *AND* sign it's own message including a textual > note that the original message had a valid signature. Please, no. That's an open invitation to phishing. To prevent it robustly, Mailman would have to remove signatures that it can't validate, otherwise a message could be crafted to look like one that was validated by Mailman. But that is clearly the wrong thing to do, as the recipient might be able to validate signatures that Mailman cannot. From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Tue Jan 20 16:33:54 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:33:54 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preserving S/MIME-Encoded Mail In-Reply-To: <87y6x6s42d.fsf@xemacs.org> References: <20090116214652.7AFDA1767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> <4971066C.6030600@riverviewtech.net> <497109EC.8030409@shub-internet.org> <497109CD.6090502@riverviewtech.net> <49710D9E.7080401@shub-internet.org> <497550EE.50804@riverviewtech.net> <49755D2C.5090901@riverviewtech.net> <87y6x6s42d.fsf@xemacs.org> Message-ID: <4975EEE2.2010806@riverviewtech.net> On 01/20/09 03:46, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > This isn't really relevant to Mailman, though. MIME messages are by > design recursively structured, and MUAs that claim to support S/MIME > should be able to handle recursive structure. The only > responsibility Mailman has or should accept is to encapsulate signed > bodies verbatim so as not to break the signature. I'll agree with you on Mailman's responsibility. However in 10+ years of computer work I can assure you that there is quite a bit of software out there that /claims/ to do something but falls short of that claim. ;) > The user should put in an RFE for your MUA if that extra effort > bothers him. If he hasn't validated the signature himself, he has to > assume that it is invalid. This is not a task that can be delegated > to mailing list software. RFE? I also don't understand how this task (technically) can not be delegated to the mailing list software. Though I will concede that the task is very much likely out side of the scope of the mailing list software, thus unlikely to happen. > Please, no. That's an open invitation to phishing. To prevent it > robustly, Mailman would have to remove signatures that it can't > validate, otherwise a message could be crafted to look like one that > was validated by Mailman. But that is clearly the wrong thing to do, > as the recipient might be able to validate signatures that Mailman > cannot. I fail to see how this is an open invitation to phishing. Further I fail to see how Mailman (presuming it had access to OpenSSL's tool set) would not be able to validate standard S/MIME signatures. As S/MIME signatures are validated all the time by MUAs that had no prior knowledge of the public key of the sender. Encryption on the other hand requires prior knowledge. Thus I believe that it is possible for a mail handling program to take any S/MIME signed message and test the signed message to make sure that it was not altered. If you are worried about someone spoofing messages that Mailman would send, that should be simple to solve by having Mailman S/MIME sign its signatures. In my head this means that you now have verification that what Mailman sent was 1) not modified and 2) was indeed sent by Mailman. At least you have assurances that the message was sent by Mailman in so far as S/MIME can assure. (We can substitute PGP for S/MIME and still continue the discussion.) Grant. . . . From stephen at xemacs.org Tue Jan 20 18:34:22 2009 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:34:22 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preserving S/MIME-Encoded Mail In-Reply-To: <4975EEE2.2010806@riverviewtech.net> References: <20090116214652.7AFDA1767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> <4971066C.6030600@riverviewtech.net> <497109EC.8030409@shub-internet.org> <497109CD.6090502@riverviewtech.net> <49710D9E.7080401@shub-internet.org> <497550EE.50804@riverviewtech.net> <49755D2C.5090901@riverviewtech.net> <87y6x6s42d.fsf@xemacs.org> <4975EEE2.2010806@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <87d4ehhof5.fsf@xemacs.org> Grant Taylor writes: > I'll agree with you on Mailman's responsibility. However in 10+ years > of computer work I can assure you that there is quite a bit of software > out there that /claims/ to do something but falls short of that claim. ;) Sure. Why Mailman *should* make up for other software's deficiencies, when it has (like all other software) enough trouble keeping its own promises is the question. Especially in something as difficult as security. > > The user should put in an RFE for your MUA if that extra effort > > bothers him. If he hasn't validated the signature himself, he > > has to assume that it is invalid. This is not a task that can be > > delegated to mailing list software. > > RFE? Request For Enhancement. > I also don't understand how this task (technically) can not be > delegated to the mailing list software. Mailman is written in Python, Python is Turing complete, therefore any computation can be delegated to Mailman in a technical sense. :-) However, in security you assume that (a) the bad guys are indeed out to get you, and (b) that everybody except you is a bad guy until proven otherwise. That includes mailing lists. I see no reason why mailing lists would be an exception to (a) or (b), so you don't want to delegate trust if you can do the authentication yourself, which you can. > > Please, no. That's an open invitation to phishing. To prevent it > > robustly, Mailman would have to remove signatures that it can't > > validate, otherwise a message could be crafted to look like one that > > was validated by Mailman. But that is clearly the wrong thing to do, > > as the recipient might be able to validate signatures that Mailman > > cannot. > > I fail to see how this is an open invitation to phishing. Given that the recipient is capable of doing anything Mailman can, Mailman should not invite delegation of trust unless it can promise to do what the recipient wants. If trust is delegated, then there are several avenues for phishing for those recipients who chose to trust authentication by Mailman rather than doing itself, including but not limited to spoofing Mailman-validated messages and suborning the Mailman server. Why spend effort on worrying about those things when S/MIME is designed for end-to-end security anyway? > Further I fail to see how Mailman (presuming it had access to > OpenSSL's tool set) would not be able to validate standard S/MIME > signatures. As S/MIME signatures are validated all the time by > MUAs that had no prior knowledge of the public key of the sender. Oops, I probably should be saying "authentication" rather than "validation". The point is that as a guarantee of identity S/MIME signatures ultimately depend on a certification authority. It is quite possible that you and I are members of an organization with reason to trust that organization's self-certification, while we are communicating via a third-party list. Whether this is a relevant use-case, I can't say, "yes" *or "no"*. Why spend the effort to prove "no" when the recipient should be doing the verification themselves anyway? > Encryption on the other hand requires prior knowledge. Thus I > believe that it is possible for a mail handling program to take any > S/MIME signed message and test the signed message to make sure that > it was not altered. Not since it was signed. But what if the question is "who signed it?" > If you are worried about someone spoofing messages that Mailman would > send, that should be simple to solve by having Mailman S/MIME sign its > signatures. In my head this means that you now have verification that > what Mailman sent was 1) not modified and 2) was indeed sent by Mailman. Yes, but who cares whether Mailman in particular modified it or sent it? What you usually want is to know that it wasn't modified anywhere by anyone, and that it was originally sent by the purported author. From Luke.Daly at newcastle.edu.au Wed Jan 21 06:13:43 2009 From: Luke.Daly at newcastle.edu.au (Luke Daly) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:13:43 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving discarded emails to an archive somewhere Message-ID: <497749B5.2D70.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au> Hi Guys is there a way to move discarded emails to another list? I have been asked if we can retain the email's that are discarded due to not having perms to send to the list be moved to another list for archiving purposes. From aussiemax at neo.rr.com Wed Jan 21 14:47:06 2009 From: aussiemax at neo.rr.com (Melinda Gilmore) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 08:47:06 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions problems Message-ID: <001801c97bce$bf9d3440$3ed79cc0$@rr.com> I continue to get these messages when some cron jobs are running. I can see that it is a permissions problems. But I have tried everything by changing permissions and it still is having problems. This particular file that is mentioned is not there. Someone please help me figure this out. There has to be some little thing I am missing. I have compared files with others that are not getting the message and the permissions are the same. Your "cron" job on lists /usr/local/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip produced the following output: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 154, in ? main() File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 140, in main compress(f) File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 81, in compress outfp = gzip.open(txtfile+'.gz', 'wb', 6) File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/gzip.py", line 49, in open return GzipFile(filename, mode, compresslevel) File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/gzip.py", line 94, in __init__ fileobj = self.myfileobj = __builtin__.open(filename, mode or 'rb') IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mailman/2007-October.txt.gz' From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 21 17:42:41 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 08:42:41 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions problems In-Reply-To: <001801c97bce$bf9d3440$3ed79cc0$@rr.com> Message-ID: Melinda Gilmore wrote: >I continue to get these messages when some cron jobs are running. I can see >that it is a permissions problems. But I have tried everything by changing >permissions and it still is having problems. This particular file that is >mentioned is not there. So the user who's crontab ran this does not have permission to create the file. Try doing su - user where user is the user who's crontab this is, followed by touch /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mailman/2007-October.txt.gz >Someone please help me figure this out. There has >to be some little thing I am missing. I have compared files with others >that are not getting the message and the permissions are the same. > >Your "cron" job on lists >/usr/local/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip > >produced the following output: > >Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 154, in ? > main() > File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 140, in main > compress(f) > File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 81, in compress > outfp = gzip.open(txtfile+'.gz', 'wb', 6) > File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/gzip.py", line 49, in open > return GzipFile(filename, mode, compresslevel) > File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/gzip.py", line 94, in __init__ > fileobj = self.myfileobj = __builtin__.open(filename, mode or 'rb') >IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: >'/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mailman/2007-October.txt.gz' -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Wed Jan 21 18:01:09 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:01:09 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving discarded emails to an archive somewhere In-Reply-To: <497749B5.2D70.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au> References: <497749B5.2D70.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au> Message-ID: <497754D5.30703@riverviewtech.net> On 01/20/09 23:13, Luke Daly wrote: > Hi Guys is there a way to move discarded emails to another list? I > have been asked if we can retain the email's that are discarded due > to not having perms to send to the list be moved to another list for > archiving purposes. Uh... I don't know of any mechanism in Mailman, or SMTP for that matter, that will provide what you are wanting. The closest that I can think of is using something like a Procmail recipe that will attempt to deliver a message in to Mailman and then attempt to deliver the message to your ""archive if it fails to deliver the message to Mailman. I can't think of any thing else that will attempt to deliver to one location and then fall back to another if the first fails. Well, having multiple MX records will do this, but the problem is the first will accept the message and then fail, rather than failing the SMTP delivery period. I suppose someone could wright an SMTP interface in to Mailman, but that is way more trouble than Procmail. Grant. . . . From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Wed Jan 21 18:58:37 2009 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:58:37 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving discarded emails to an archive somewhere In-Reply-To: <497754D5.30703@riverviewtech.net> References: <497749B5.2D70.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au> <497754D5.30703@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <20090121175837.GF3369@amyl.org.uk> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 11:01:09AM -0600, Grant Taylor wrote: > On 01/20/09 23:13, Luke Daly wrote: > >Hi Guys is there a way to move discarded emails to another list? I > >have been asked if we can retain the emails that are discarded due > >to not having perms to send to the list be moved to another list for > >archiving purposes. > > Uh... > > I don't know of any mechanism in Mailman, or SMTP for that matter, that > will provide what you are wanting. The closest that I can think of is > using something like a Procmail recipe that will attempt to deliver a > message in to Mailman and then attempt to deliver the message to your > ""archive if it fails to deliver the message to Mailman. How about forward the mails discarded/rejected to admins option, and thence using procmail/exim sieve/whatever to handle those mails to a new mbox/mdir/$boss. (for good measure, i'd let spamassassin's reject bin end up there too, until i had time to "fix the bug") Absolutely futile exercise, in my view, though. -- ``Actually, he's a libertarian, which, as near as I can tell, is just a Republican who doesn't believe in God.'' (Sarah Vowell) From mihamina at lab.vectoris.fr Wed Jan 21 12:38:15 2009 From: mihamina at lab.vectoris.fr (Mihamina Rakotomandimby (R12y)) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:38:15 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] initial hostname Message-ID: <49770927.7050409@lab.vectoris.fr> Hi, I have a box named "phenom" on which I created a mailing list, beeeing root, via "newlist". A while after that, I changed the hostname of the box to the current one:"lab.vectoris.fr" and changed the malman config too. But now, when I look into the MTA/SMTP logs (Exim of my ISP, as smarthost), I see that an email is sent as root at phenom and is unrouteable by the MTA (obvious, he doesnt know about "phenom"). What should I hack into Mailman to get rid of that "@phenom" sending? From tboom at berkeley.edu Wed Jan 21 17:30:01 2009 From: tboom at berkeley.edu (Terry Boom) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 08:30:01 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] re-set Digest volume numbering Message-ID: <49774D89.3050001@berkeley.edu> I have searched the archives and seen the question posted frequently, but never answered. Is there a way to re-set digest numbering in Mailman? Thanks. Terry Boom From the.bates at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 20:39:31 2009 From: the.bates at gmail.com (Marion Bates) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:39:31 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email address with trailing space Message-ID: <1b22da370901211139n1aa060c1o90526813721978f@mail.gmail.com> Sorry for the antique thread bump here, but it was the top hit for my "mailman address trailing space" search, so I thought I'd contribute. ------------------------------------- Re: [Mailman-Users] Email address with trailing space Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:38:22 -0800 Trader Joe wrote: >While doing "mass subscription", I accidently put in >an extra space at the end of several email addresses >and now I'm unable to unsubscribe or remove these >email via Web tools. Anyone know how to remove these? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I had the same issue -- version 2.1.9 under Fedora Core 9. The email address had a trailing space, and attempts to delete it via the web interface resulted in nothing more than a page refresh, with the address still subscribed; the remove_members script reported "No such member" whether I passed it the address with a space, an escaped space, or no space. A later reply included a now-dead link to part of the FAQ. I looked at the archived version here: http://web.archive.org/web/20070221134632/http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.013.htp But those suggestions didn't work in my case. So I grepped the list_members output for just the "correct" part of my bad email address, and lo and behold, the problematic address looked like this: user.name at domain.com\  That's the entity code for a non-breaking space, which I imagine ended up in MM from a copy-paste from rich email. Leveraging another suggestion in this old thread, I was able to remove it but had to escape the ampersand: ./remove_members mylistname user.name at domain.com\  In case this is helpful to anyone else. Thanks, all! -- MB From Tlf1 at ccs135.com Wed Jan 21 19:46:20 2009 From: Tlf1 at ccs135.com (Tim Ferguson) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:46:20 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and SME Message-ID: <4977191C020000BD00013E34@ccs135.com> I've been attempting to install Mailman on a SME server that I created yesterday but am failing miserably. For instance, I cannot create a group AND user using "mailman" as per the documentation. I also cannot expand the mailman file. Is there any documentation on using Mailman on SME, or is a different flavor of Linux recommended? Any and all help would be appreciated. I've worked with SME for several years now, but appear to be out in left field on this one. Thanks, Tim Tim Ferguson Director of Technology Centralia City Schools Centralia, Illinois 62801 618-532-1907, Ext. 1030 From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 22 17:13:34 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:13:34 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] re-set Digest volume numbering In-Reply-To: <49774D89.3050001@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: Terry Boom wrote: >I have searched the archives and seen the question posted frequently, >but never answered. Is there a way to re-set digest numbering in >Mailman? Thanks. Use bin/withlist or bin/config_list to set the list's volume and/or next_digest_number attributes. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 22 17:41:24 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:41:24 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving discarded emails to an archive somewhere In-Reply-To: <497749B5.2D70.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au> Message-ID: Luke Daly wrote: >Hi Guys is there a way to move discarded emails to another list? I have been asked if we can retain the email's that are discarded due to not having perms to send to the list be moved to another list for archiving purposes. There is a list setting forward_auto_discards that can forward all automatically discarded non-member posts to the list owner. If discarding from the admindb web interface, there are options to forward the message and/or preserve it (it is preserved in a 'spam' queue). These are all you have without modifying code. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 22 17:49:12 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:49:12 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] initial hostname In-Reply-To: <49770927.7050409@lab.vectoris.fr> Message-ID: Mihamina Rakotomandimby (R12y) wrote: >Hi, >I have a box named "phenom" on which I created a mailing list, beeeing >root, via "newlist". > >A while after that, I changed the hostname of the box to the current >one:"lab.vectoris.fr" and changed the malman config too. > >But now, when I look into the MTA/SMTP logs (Exim of my ISP, as >smarthost), I see that an email is sent as root at phenom and is >unrouteable by the MTA (obvious, he doesnt know about "phenom"). > >What should I hack into Mailman to get rid of that "@phenom" sending? You can easily change the host name of a list via the web admin General Options page Host name this list prefers for email. (Details for host_name) Or, you can fix both host_name and the web_page_url to match your current configuration with bin/fix_url.py. bin/fix_url.py is a 'withlist' script - run it stand-alone for instructions. However, I don't understand why mail from Mailman would be sent by root at phenom in any case. All mailman mail is sent with envelope from LISTNAME-bounces at ... for some LISTNAME. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 22 17:56:15 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:56:15 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and SME In-Reply-To: <4977191C020000BD00013E34@ccs135.com> Message-ID: Tim Ferguson wrote: >I've been attempting to install Mailman on a SME server that I created yesterday but am failing miserably. For instance, I cannot create a group AND user using "mailman" as per the documentation. I also cannot expand the mailman file. Is there any documentation on using Mailman on SME, or is a different flavor of Linux recommended? As I understand it, SME is based on CentOS. If you can't do what you need through the SME interface, can you get around it and get a command shell as root? If so, that should enable you to do what you need to do. I am not aware of any documentation addressing installing Mailman on SME. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From scott at jda-networks.com Fri Jan 23 03:27:54 2009 From: scott at jda-networks.com (Scott Race) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:27:54 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the email address of a list Message-ID: <5FDF8F237C740D4B8C3A618DD2668E32030CBB2C@server.jda.local> Hello, I have successfully moved my mailman lists to a new server, thanks to lots of documentation and help from people on the list. I have one small change I want to make, and wanted to get some advice before breaking it. My virtual-mailman file has entries like this: mylistname_which_is_really_long at mydomain.net mylistname_which_is_really_long mylistname_which_is_really_long-admin at mydomain.net mylistname_which_is_really_long-admin mylistname_which_is_really_long-bounces at mydomain.net mylistname_which_is_really_long-bounces mylistname_which_is_really_long-confirm at mydomain.net mylistname_which_is_really_long-confirm mylistname_which_is_really_long-join at mydomain.net mylistname_which_is_really_long-join mylistname_which_is_really_long-leave at mydomain.net mylistname_which_is_really_long-leave mylistname_which_is_really_long-owner at mydomain.net mylistname_which_is_really_long-owner mylistname_which_is_really_long-request at mydomain.net mylistname_which_is_really_long-request I want to change "mylistname_which_is_really_long" to "mylistname". Will simply changing the listname in the virtual mailman file take care of this? I'm thinking there's another place I'll need to change this as well, but not quite sure. Thanks in advance! Scott Race From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 23 03:49:09 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:49:09 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the email address of a list In-Reply-To: <5FDF8F237C740D4B8C3A618DD2668E32030CBB2C@server.jda.local> Message-ID: Scott Race > >My virtual-mailman file has entries like this: > > > >mylistname_which_is_really_long at mydomain.net >mylistname_which_is_really_long > > >I want to change "mylistname_which_is_really_long" to "mylistname". > > > >Will simply changing the listname in the virtual mailman file take care >of this? I'm thinking there's another place I'll need to change this as >well, but not quite sure. No. It's not that simple. If you just changed mylistname_which_is_really_long at mydomain.net mylistname_which_is_really_long to mylistname at mydomain.net mylistname_which_is_really_long and similarly for the others in virtual-mailman and running postalias to update virtual-mailman.db, you could then send mail to mylistname at mydomain.net, etc. and it would be properly delivered to Mailman, but the list would still think its name was mylistname_which_is_really_long which would cause problems and confusion. The thing to do is change the list name according to the FAQ at beginning at the sentence "The following procedure (requiring full server access) will preserve everything." -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mailman at 1984.is Sun Jan 25 22:46:49 2009 From: mailman at 1984.is (Mordur Ingolfsson) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 21:46:49 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Icelandic: Digest character set problem Message-ID: <497CDDC9.2000206@1984.is> Dear list, I am running a list with mostly Icelandic users. Icelandic character set is filled with strange and exotic accents and weird caracters. My digest users get those accented characters changed to question marks, such as here: ?eir sem eru ?samm?la ?v? a? leggja ?a? ni?ur svari ?essum p?sti me? inf?ldu "nei" The ordinary subscribers to the list get the messages unchanged. What, I ask, am I to do about this? All the best, Mordur Ingolfsson From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 26 03:17:16 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:17:16 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Icelandic: Digest character set problem In-Reply-To: <497CDDC9.2000206@1984.is> Message-ID: Mordur Ingolfsson wrote: > >I am running a list with mostly Icelandic users. Icelandic character set >is filled with strange and exotic accents and weird caracters. My digest >users get those accented characters changed to question marks, such as >here: > > ?eir sem eru ?samm?la ?v? a? leggja ?a? ni?ur svari ?essum p?sti me? >inf?ldu "nei" > >The ordinary subscribers to the list get the messages unchanged. What, I >ask, am I to do about this? The best answer would be to change the list's preferred_language to Icelandic, but unfortunately, there is no Icelandic i18n for Mailman. If you or someone or some group you know is interested in translating Mailman to Icelandic, I'm sure you could get help and advice from the mailman-i18n at python.org list . The next option, assuming the list's preferred_language is English, is to change Mailman's character set for English from 'us-ascii' to 'iso-8859-1'. You (or the Mailman admin at your host) would do this by putting the line add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'iso-8859-1', 'ltr') in mm_cfg.py and restarting Mailman. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mcgredo at nps.edu Mon Jan 26 03:34:17 2009 From: mcgredo at nps.edu (Don McGregor) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:34:17 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving Lists to New Host In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm moving a list manager to a new box, and at the same time bumping up the version of mailman. I copied archives and the lists directory over, installed the 2.1.12rc1 version on top of the old 2.1.9 version. bin/list_lists shows all the old lists when run on the new box. The cgi script listinfo returns no lists for the web page at host/ mailman/listinfo--I get the default welcome page for mailman, no error message, but no mailing lists displayed. Any idea what could cause this? From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 26 05:18:31 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:18:31 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving Lists to New Host In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Don McGregor wrote: > >I'm moving a list manager to a new box, and at the same time bumping >up the version >of mailman. > >I copied archives and the lists directory over, installed the >2.1.12rc1 version on top of >the old 2.1.9 version. > >bin/list_lists shows all the old lists when run on the new box. > >The cgi script listinfo returns no lists for the web page at host/ >mailman/listinfo--I get the >default welcome page for mailman, no error message, but no mailing >lists displayed. > >Any idea what could cause this? See the FAQ at and others linked from it for information about why this is happening. Also see . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From steve at marmot.org Mon Jan 26 21:40:36 2009 From: steve at marmot.org (Steve Lindemann) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:40:36 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber only list Message-ID: <497E1FC4.1000102@marmot.org> Had something strange occur early Saturday morning. A non-subscriber managed to successfully post to two member only lists (and, of course, it was spam). The bogus sender (thelevisstoreonline at levis.rsys1.com) is not a member of these member only lists and is not in the accept_these_nonmembers filter. Other non-member posts are being caught and sent to moderation. Is there something else that I should be looking at? I checked the logs and the sender sent to 5 of our hosted lists. They were caught (per the vette log) by 3 of those lists as a non-member, but posted successfully to the other 2 lists (per smtp and post logs). I've checked the docs and faqs and haven't found a reference for something like this. I've checked all the logs and the configs (via the web interface) on the two lists that posted allowed the post. I can't find any reason for it and have to wonder if I'm checking everything. I've looked thru everything that makes sense and much that doesn't. If I had hair I'd be pulling it out! -- Steve Lindemann __ Network Administrator //\\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign Marmot Library Network, Inc. \\// against HTML/RTF email, http://www.marmot.org //\\ vCards & M$ attachments +1.970.242.3331 x116 From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Mon Jan 26 22:15:17 2009 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:15:17 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber only list In-Reply-To: <497E1FC4.1000102@marmot.org> References: <497E1FC4.1000102@marmot.org> Message-ID: <1233004518.6603.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Is it possible that the list mod or admin password got out? I believe than anyone can post to a moderated list by putting an "Approved: " header or pseudo-header in a post. On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 13:40 -0700, Steve Lindemann wrote: > Had something strange occur early Saturday morning. A non-subscriber > managed to successfully post to two member only lists (and, of course, > it was spam). > > The bogus sender (thelevisstoreonline at levis.rsys1.com) is not a member > of these member only lists and is not in the accept_these_nonmembers > filter. Other non-member posts are being caught and sent to moderation. > Is there something else that I should be looking at? > > I checked the logs and the sender sent to 5 of our hosted lists. They > were caught (per the vette log) by 3 of those lists as a non-member, but > posted successfully to the other 2 lists (per smtp and post logs). > > I've checked the docs and faqs and haven't found a reference for > something like this. I've checked all the logs and the configs (via the > web interface) on the two lists that posted allowed the post. I can't > find any reason for it and have to wonder if I'm checking everything. > I've looked thru everything that makes sense and much that doesn't. If > I had hair I'd be pulling it out! -- Lindsay Haisley | "In an open world, | PGP public key FMP Computer Services | who needs Windows | available at 512-259-1190 | or Gates" | http://pubkeys.fmp.com http://www.fmp.com | | From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 26 22:26:00 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:26:00 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber onlylist In-Reply-To: <497E1FC4.1000102@marmot.org> Message-ID: Steve Lindemann wrote: >Had something strange occur early Saturday morning. A non-subscriber >managed to successfully post to two member only lists (and, of course, >it was spam). > >The bogus sender (thelevisstoreonline at levis.rsys1.com) is not a member >of these member only lists and is not in the accept_these_nonmembers >filter. Other non-member posts are being caught and sent to moderation. > Is there something else that I should be looking at? All the headers of the spam post. In a default installation, if any of From:, Reply-To: or Sender: headers or the envelope sender as reflected in the Unix From or Return-Path: header contains a member address, the post will be deemed from that member. Find the spam posts in archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox. The headers there should reflect the original except maybe for Reply-To: if the list mungs that. If that isn't the answer, then it is possible that, as Lindsay suggests, the post contained an Approved: header with the list admin or moderator password. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From steve at marmot.org Mon Jan 26 22:34:00 2009 From: steve at marmot.org (Steve Lindemann) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:34:00 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber only list In-Reply-To: <1233004518.6603.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <497E1FC4.1000102@marmot.org> <1233004518.6603.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <497E2C48.6000704@marmot.org> Lindsay Haisley wrote: > Is it possible that the list mod or admin password got out? I believe > than anyone can post to a moderated list by putting an "Approved: > " header or pseudo-header in a post. I'm on one of the lists that accepted the message (which is how it came to my attention) and I just rechecked the message header and didn't see anything resembling that... would mailman remove it from the header for final delivery to the list members? Regardless, I'll see to getting passwords changed, thanks. -- Steve Lindemann __ Network Administrator //\\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign Marmot Library Network, Inc. \\// against HTML/RTF email, http://www.marmot.org //\\ vCards & M$ attachments +1.970.242.3331 x116 From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Mon Jan 26 22:42:31 2009 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:42:31 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber only list In-Reply-To: <497E2C48.6000704@marmot.org> References: <497E1FC4.1000102@marmot.org> <1233004518.6603.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <497E2C48.6000704@marmot.org> Message-ID: <1233006151.6603.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 14:34 -0700, Steve Lindemann wrote: > Lindsay Haisley wrote: > > Is it possible that the list mod or admin password got out? I believe > > than anyone can post to a moderated list by putting an "Approved: > > " header or pseudo-header in a post. > > I'm on one of the lists that accepted the message (which is how it came > to my attention) and I just rechecked the message header and didn't see > anything resembling that... would mailman remove it from the header for > final delivery to the list members? Yes, absolutely. Not only in the text/plain part but in every part of a multipart message in which it occurs. Otherwise it would be the equivalent of serving up your list security on a silver platter to the world and passing out carving knives :( > Regardless, I'll see to getting > passwords changed, thanks. Good idea. Check your full headers on these posts. Mark's note is probably relevant here. -- Lindsay Haisley | "The difference between | PGP public key FMP Computer Services | a duck is because one | available at 512-259-1190 | leg is both the same" | http://pubkeys.fmp.com http://www.fmp.com | - Anonymous | From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 26 22:43:51 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:43:51 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriberonly list In-Reply-To: <497E2C48.6000704@marmot.org> Message-ID: Steve Lindemann wrote: >Lindsay Haisley wrote: >> Is it possible that the list mod or admin password got out? I believe >> than anyone can post to a moderated list by putting an "Approved: >> " header or pseudo-header in a post. > >I'm on one of the lists that accepted the message (which is how it came >to my attention) and I just rechecked the message header and didn't see >anything resembling that... would mailman remove it from the header for >final delivery to the list members? Regardless, I'll see to getting >passwords changed, thanks. Yes, any Approve: or Approved: header will be removed from the post whether or not the password is valid. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Mon Jan 26 22:46:39 2009 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:46:39 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber onlylist In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1233006399.6603.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 13:26 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > If that isn't the answer, then it is possible that, as Lindsay > suggests, the post contained an Approved: header with the list admin > or moderator password. Mark's answer is probably more likely than mine. I was in the process of reading Mailman code to see exactly which headers are examined for the subscribed member address, and Mark, who probably has the code committed to memory :-) beat me to the punch. Spammers play fast and lose with addresses. It's very possible that one of your subscribers has a virally infected box which harvests email addresses on inbound email and sends them on to collection points. It's also conceivable that, given that we know that this happens regularly, there are viral engines out there, or spamming engines, that specialize in spoofing Mailman lists. Some of the stuff I see coming in that gets shoved into moderation _looks_ as if people are trying to figure out how to game the list. -- Lindsay Haisley | "The difference between | PGP public key FMP Computer Services | a duck is because one | available at 512-259-1190 | leg is both the same" | http://pubkeys.fmp.com http://www.fmp.com | - Anonymous | From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Mon Jan 26 22:44:45 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:44:45 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber onlylist In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497E2ECD.7010701@riverviewtech.net> On 01/26/09 15:26, Mark Sapiro wrote: > All the headers of the spam post. In a default installation, if any > of From:, Reply-To: or Sender: headers or the envelope sender as > reflected in the Unix From or Return-Path: header contains a member > address, the post will be deemed from that member. Can this behavior be disabled? IMHO trusting the purported From: / Reply-To: / Sender: / From / Return-Path: headers is a fairly (being nice) "less than wise" thing to do. Grant. . . . From steve at marmot.org Mon Jan 26 22:51:46 2009 From: steve at marmot.org (Steve Lindemann) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:51:46 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber only list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497E3072.2010300@marmot.org> Mark Sapiro wrote: > All the headers of the spam post. In a default installation, if any of > From:, Reply-To: or Sender: headers or the envelope sender as > reflected in the Unix From or Return-Path: header contains a member > address, the post will be deemed from that member. > > Find the spam posts in archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox. > The headers there should reflect the original except maybe for > Reply-To: if the list mungs that. > > If that isn't the answer, then it is possible that, as Lindsay > suggests, the post contained an Approved: header with the list admin > or moderator password. Rechecked the delivered message header and found the list bounces address in the Sender: and Return-Path: headers, but I thought that was normal on the delivered message. Checked the archives and found the note "An HTML attachment was scrubbed..." and a link to the html portion of the message. The rest of the message (including the header) appears to be missing from the archive. I didn't think the -bounces address was considered a member of the list... is it? -- Steve Lindemann __ Network Administrator //\\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign Marmot Library Network, Inc. \\// against HTML/RTF email, http://www.marmot.org //\\ vCards & M$ attachments +1.970.242.3331 x116 From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Mon Jan 26 22:55:07 2009 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:55:07 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber onlylist In-Reply-To: <497E2ECD.7010701@riverviewtech.net> References: <497E2ECD.7010701@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <1233006907.6603.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 15:44 -0600, Grant Taylor wrote: > On 01/26/09 15:26, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > All the headers of the spam post. In a default installation, if any > > of From:, Reply-To: or Sender: headers or the envelope sender as > > reflected in the Unix From or Return-Path: header contains a member > > address, the post will be deemed from that member. > > Can this behavior be disabled? IMHO trusting the purported From: / > Reply-To: / Sender: / From / Return-Path: headers is a fairly (being > nice) "less than wise" thing to do. This kind of defeats the purpose, by definition, of a non-moderated, subscribers-only list. This would be the equivalent of setting everyone's mod flag on, at which point it becomes a moderated list. Either you allow subscribers to post, or you don't, and given the manifest security flaws in the standards described in the email RFCs, there's really no way around this. -- Lindsay Haisley | "Everything works | PGP public key FMP Computer Services | if you let it" | available at 512-259-1190 | (The Roadie) | http://pubkeys.fmp.com http://www.fmp.com | | From steve at marmot.org Mon Jan 26 22:56:47 2009 From: steve at marmot.org (Steve Lindemann) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:56:47 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriberonly list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497E319F.6020107@marmot.org> Mark Sapiro wrote: > Steve Lindemann wrote: >> Lindsay Haisley wrote: >>> Is it possible that the list mod or admin password got out? I believe >>> than anyone can post to a moderated list by putting an "Approved: >>> " header or pseudo-header in a post. >> >> I'm on one of the lists that accepted the message (which is how it came >> to my attention) and I just rechecked the message header and didn't see >> anything resembling that... would mailman remove it from the header for >> final delivery to the list members? Regardless, I'll see to getting >> passwords changed, thanks. > > Yes, any Approve: or Approved: header will be removed from the post > whether or not the password is valid. > duh... I should have known, that only makes sense. Sounds like the Approve: or Approved header is a likely candidate. Getting those passwords fixed now. Thanks. -- Steve Lindemann __ Network Administrator //\\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign Marmot Library Network, Inc. \\// against HTML/RTF email, http://www.marmot.org //\\ vCards & M$ attachments +1.970.242.3331 x116 From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Mon Jan 26 22:59:45 2009 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:59:45 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber only list In-Reply-To: <497E3072.2010300@marmot.org> References: <497E3072.2010300@marmot.org> Message-ID: <1233007185.6603.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 14:51 -0700, Steve Lindemann wrote: > Rechecked the delivered message header and found the list bounces > address in the Sender: and Return-Path: headers, but I thought that was > normal on the delivered message. It is, if you're looking at the _distributed_ post. This is the envelope sender address which Mailman used when distributing the email, possibly a VERP address if you have this enabled. What you need to look at is the headers on the post which the list server _received_, not what it send out. > I didn't think the -bounces address was considered a member of the > list... is it? No, unless someone subscribed it. -- Lindsay Haisley | "We are all broken | PGP public key FMP Computer Services | toasters, but we | available at 512-259-1190 | still manage to make | http://www.fmp.com | toast" | | (Cheryl Dehut) | From b19141 at anl.gov Mon Jan 26 23:03:35 2009 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:03:35 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber onlylist In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Mark Sapiro ' dated: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:26:00 -0800 Message-ID: <20090126220335.1F1541767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> Steve Lindemann wrote: >Had something strange occur early Saturday morning. A non-subscriber >managed to successfully post to two member only lists (and, of course, >it was spam). > >The bogus sender (thelevisstoreonline at levis.rsys1.com) is not a member >of these member only lists and is not in the accept_these_nonmembers >filter. Other non-member posts are being caught and sent to moderation. > Is there something else that I should be looking at? We had a case last week when someone sent mail with a spoofed "From: ...." line that contained the e-mail address of the list owner. The mail was delivered to us via a SMTP mailer of an ISP, and we have in the mail headers the IP address of the sender. In this case, since the mail came from the ISP's SMTP mailer, I assume that the mail was not spam sent directly from some botnet. Due to the content of the mail, I reported it to the ISP (and have not yet gotten any reply). After the list owner sent an apology to the list, another list member said that this sort of mail is more frequent these days, especially if the e-mail address of the list owner or other members of the list is available via an Internet search. In our case, the list owner temporarily moderated his e-mail address. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 26 23:03:46 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:03:46 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriberonly list In-Reply-To: <497E3072.2010300@marmot.org> Message-ID: Steve Lindemann wrote: >Mark Sapiro wrote: >> All the headers of the spam post. In a default installation, if any of >> From:, Reply-To: or Sender: headers or the envelope sender as >> reflected in the Unix From or Return-Path: header contains a member >> address, the post will be deemed from that member. >> >> Find the spam posts in archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox. >> The headers there should reflect the original except maybe for >> Reply-To: if the list mungs that. >> >> If that isn't the answer, then it is possible that, as Lindsay >> suggests, the post contained an Approved: header with the list admin >> or moderator password. > >Rechecked the delivered message header and found the list bounces >address in the Sender: and Return-Path: headers, but I thought that was >normal on the delivered message. Right. That's why you have to look at the raw archive mbox file (not the html archive or the periodic .txt or .txt.gz file). That's the only place that will have the original envelope sender in the "From " separator and the original Sender:. >I didn't think the -bounces address was considered a member of the >list... is it? No, but that header got added in outgoing message processing. It isn't the Sender:/envelope sender that got checked for list membership. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Mon Jan 26 23:13:30 2009 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:13:30 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber onlylist In-Reply-To: <20090126220335.1F1541767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> References: <20090126220335.1F1541767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> Message-ID: <1233008010.6603.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 16:03 -0600, Barry Finkel wrote: > We had a case last week when someone sent mail with a spoofed > > "From: ...." > > line that contained the e-mail address of the list owner. Unless the list owner is also a subscriber with his/her mod flag turned off, the fact that something is posted from an owner or moderator address carries no weight with Mailman. I have to deal with this all the time with distribution-only lists which have everyone's moderator flag turned off, and the customer gets a new mail admin staffer who doesn't understand how to use the list, and even though they're listed as list owner they can't post until they subscribe and unset their mod flag (or use an Approved: pseudo-header). Extreme paranoia is the ideal starting point for good Internet security. -- Lindsay Haisley | "In an open world, | PGP public key FMP Computer Services | who needs Windows | available at 512-259-1190 | or Gates" | http://pubkeys.fmp.com http://www.fmp.com | | From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jan 26 23:16:02 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:16:02 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriberonlylist In-Reply-To: <497E2ECD.7010701@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: Grant Taylor wrote: >On 01/26/09 15:26, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> All the headers of the spam post. In a default installation, if any >> of From:, Reply-To: or Sender: headers or the envelope sender as >> reflected in the Unix From or Return-Path: header contains a member >> address, the post will be deemed from that member. > >Can this behavior be disabled? IMHO trusting the purported From: / >Reply-To: / Sender: / From / Return-Path: headers is a fairly (being >nice) "less than wise" thing to do. You can change/limit which headers are used. See SENDER_HEADERS in Defaults.py, but as has been pointed out, in most cases, you want to look at something to determine if a post is from a list member. If you're suggesting there should be further authentication of the purported sender, that would be a more difficult implementation and possibly more burdonsome than you would want for legitimate posters. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Mon Jan 26 23:16:33 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:16:33 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber onlylist In-Reply-To: <1233006907.6603.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <497E2ECD.7010701@riverviewtech.net> <1233006907.6603.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <497E3641.90302@riverviewtech.net> On 01/26/09 15:55, Lindsay Haisley wrote: > This kind of defeats the purpose, by definition, of a non-moderated, > subscribers-only list. This would be the equivalent of setting > everyone's mod flag on, at which point it becomes a moderated list. > Either you allow subscribers to post, or you don't, and given the > manifest security flaws in the standards described in the email RFCs, > there's really no way around this. I'm sorry, I did not mean to add "From:" header in to that list. I would want to ignore the "Reply-To:", "Sender:", unix From, and "Return-Path:". I see what you mean by using any of them though. Grant. . . . From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Mon Jan 26 23:18:39 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:18:39 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriberonlylist In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497E36BF.7000804@riverviewtech.net> On 01/26/09 16:16, Mark Sapiro wrote: > You can change/limit which headers are used. See SENDER_HEADERS in > Defaults.py, but as has been pointed out, in most cases, you want to > look at something to determine if a post is from a list member. I'll take a look. > If you're suggesting there should be further authentication of the > purported sender, that would be a more difficult implementation and > possibly more burdonsome than you would want for legitimate posters. I know that it is easy to spoof a lot of things in email. Hence why I was wanting to remove "Reply-To:", "Sender:", unix From, and "Return-Path:". Indeed, having posters /prove/ who they are is likely going to be difficult. Grant. . . . From steve at marmot.org Mon Jan 26 23:26:53 2009 From: steve at marmot.org (Steve Lindemann) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:26:53 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriberonly list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497E38AD.9090403@marmot.org> Mark Sapiro wrote: > > Right. That's why you have to look at the raw archive mbox file (not > the html archive or the periodic .txt or .txt.gz file). That's the > only place that will have the original envelope sender in the "From " > separator and the original Sender:. Thanks! Got it! They spoofed a legitimate list member on the Return-Path:, which also showed up on the first ("From ") message header line. The From:, Reply-To: reflected the purported spammer and there was no Sender: in the raw mbox file. The good news is that there was no Approved: or Approve: but we're changing passwords anyway. I don't suppose there's anything we can do about this other than change that particular user's email address... is there? -- Steve Lindemann __ Network Administrator //\\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign Marmot Library Network, Inc. \\// against HTML/RTF email, http://www.marmot.org //\\ vCards & M$ attachments +1.970.242.3331 x116 From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Mon Jan 26 23:38:54 2009 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:38:54 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriberonly list In-Reply-To: <497E38AD.9090403@marmot.org> References: <497E38AD.9090403@marmot.org> Message-ID: <1233009534.6603.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 15:26 -0700, Steve Lindemann wrote: > Thanks! Got it! They spoofed a legitimate list member on the > Return-Path:, which also showed up on the first ("From ") message header > line. Both of these reflect the envelope sender address used in the SMTP dialog with the mail server. > I don't suppose there's anything we can do about this other than change > that particular user's email address... is there? You can restrict the set of headers used to identify subscribers using the SENDER_HEADERS variable in mm_cfg.py, as Mark indicated. By default (in Defaults.py) this is: SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender') You can eliminate the envelope sender address from the mix by setting this simply to: SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', 'reply-to') or drop 'reply-to' if you want to be even more restrictive. -- Lindsay Haisley |"Fighting against human | PGP public key FMP Computer Services | creativity is like | available at 512-259-1190 | trying to eradicate | http://www.fmp.com | dandelions" | | (Pamela Jones) | From steve at marmot.org Mon Jan 26 23:44:35 2009 From: steve at marmot.org (Steve Lindemann) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:44:35 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber only list (SOLVED) In-Reply-To: <1233009534.6603.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <497E38AD.9090403@marmot.org> <1233009534.6603.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <497E3CD3.3090301@marmot.org> Lindsay Haisley wrote: > On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 15:26 -0700, Steve Lindemann wrote: >> Thanks! Got it! They spoofed a legitimate list member on the >> Return-Path:, which also showed up on the first ("From ") message header >> line. > > Both of these reflect the envelope sender address used in the SMTP > dialog with the mail server. > >> I don't suppose there's anything we can do about this other than change >> that particular user's email address... is there? > > You can restrict the set of headers used to identify subscribers using > the SENDER_HEADERS variable in mm_cfg.py, as Mark indicated. By default > (in Defaults.py) this is: > > SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender') > > You can eliminate the envelope sender address from the mix by setting > this simply to: > > SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', 'reply-to') > > or drop 'reply-to' if you want to be even more restrictive. > Thanks... I like that solution much more better 8^) ...too many messages going by too quickly. I skimmed Mark's message but since he was answering Grant's question I didn't read it as closely as I should have.... I'm going back now to read thru the thread more slowly. Thanks to all! -- Steve Lindemann __ Network Administrator //\\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign Marmot Library Network, Inc. \\// against HTML/RTF email, http://www.marmot.org //\\ vCards & M$ attachments +1.970.242.3331 x116 From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Mon Jan 26 23:51:40 2009 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:51:40 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber only list (SOLVED) In-Reply-To: <497E3CD3.3090301@marmot.org> References: <497E38AD.9090403@marmot.org> <1233009534.6603.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> <497E3CD3.3090301@marmot.org> Message-ID: <1233010300.6603.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 15:44 -0700, Steve Lindemann wrote: > Thanks... I like that solution much more better 8^) It's no more difficult to spoof the From header than it is to spoof the envelope sender address, but at least this way, if it happens again, you'll more easily see which header got the spam through and not have to go digging for it. -- Lindsay Haisley | "Everything works | PGP public key FMP Computer Services | if you let it" | available at 512-259-1190 | (The Roadie) | http://pubkeys.fmp.com http://www.fmp.com | | From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Mon Jan 26 23:49:37 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:49:37 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriberonly list In-Reply-To: <497E38AD.9090403@marmot.org> References: <497E38AD.9090403@marmot.org> Message-ID: <497E3E01.9040304@riverviewtech.net> On 01/26/09 16:26, Steve Lindemann wrote: > Thanks! Got it! They spoofed a legitimate list member on the > Return-Path:, which also showed up on the first ("From ") message header > line. The From:, Reply-To: reflected the purported spammer and there > was no Sender: in the raw mbox file. The good news is that there was no > Approved: or Approve: but we're changing passwords anyway. I would be willing to bet that the spoofed member is really the source of the message. I would not be at all surprised if that members computer has malware on it that sent the email (after harvesting it from the address book) via the default email client and thus the list members ISP. I think it would be worth asking the member to send an email to you (or reply to a request) and compare the headers. If the headers are almost identical, I'd ask them to run a virus and malware scanner on their computer. I'd ask even stronger if all the spam messages that came in came from that same system. Grant. . . . From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Mon Jan 26 23:49:40 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:49:40 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriberonly list In-Reply-To: <1233009534.6603.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <497E38AD.9090403@marmot.org> <1233009534.6603.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <497E3E04.2090003@riverviewtech.net> On 01/26/09 16:38, Lindsay Haisley wrote: > Both of these reflect the envelope sender address used in the SMTP > dialog with the mail server. *nod* > You can restrict the set of headers used to identify subscribers > using the SENDER_HEADERS variable in mm_cfg.py, as Mark indicated. > By default (in Defaults.py) this is: > > SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender') > > You can eliminate the envelope sender address from the mix by setting > this simply to: > > SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', 'reply-to') > > or drop 'reply-to' if you want to be even more restrictive. I like this idea much better. Is there a way that we can require some of these things (if they exist) to match each other? I.e. to require the 'from' and the 'reply-to' to match? Grant. . . . From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Mon Jan 26 23:54:39 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:54:39 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber only list (SOLVED) In-Reply-To: <1233010300.6603.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <497E38AD.9090403@marmot.org> <1233009534.6603.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> <497E3CD3.3090301@marmot.org> <1233010300.6603.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <497E3F2F.4030403@riverviewtech.net> On 01/26/09 16:51, Lindsay Haisley wrote: > It's no more difficult to spoof the From header than it is to spoof > the envelope sender address, but at least this way, if it happens > again, you'll more easily see which header got the spam through and > not have to go digging for it. I'll agree it's almost trivial to spoof either or both if you know what you are doing. However there is quite a bit of difference in the filtering of the SMTP envelope sender that is likely to exist (to some degree) along the way. It will be *VERY* difficult for me to spoof an SMTP envelope sender for Microsoft with out SPF filters (and the likes) detecting it and acting accordingly. Grant. . . . From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Tue Jan 27 00:04:24 2009 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:04:24 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriberonly list In-Reply-To: <497E3E04.2090003@riverviewtech.net> References: <497E38AD.9090403@marmot.org> <1233009534.6603.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> <497E3E04.2090003@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <1233011064.6603.56.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 16:49 -0600, Grant Taylor wrote: > Is there a way that we can require some of these things (if they exist) > to match each other? I.e. to require the 'from' and the 'reply-to' to > match? This might not be such a good idea. A "Reply-To" header is optional is generally used if a reply should be sent to some address _other_ than the specified From header address, so if it's present, it may logically not match the From header address. I'm not so sure about the Sender header, but I know that it's optional and I believe it's also used to further "fine tune" information regarding the origin of an email if it's from an organization. -- Lindsay Haisley | "The difference between | PGP public key FMP Computer Services | a duck is because one | available at 512-259-1190 | leg is both the same" | http://pubkeys.fmp.com http://www.fmp.com | - Anonymous | From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Tue Jan 27 00:07:40 2009 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:07:40 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber only list (SOLVED) In-Reply-To: <497E3F2F.4030403@riverviewtech.net> References: <497E38AD.9090403@marmot.org> <1233009534.6603.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> <497E3CD3.3090301@marmot.org> <1233010300.6603.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <497E3F2F.4030403@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <1233011260.6603.61.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 16:54 -0600, Grant Taylor wrote: > It will be *VERY* difficult for me to spoof an SMTP envelope sender for > Microsoft with out SPF filters (and the likes) detecting it and acting > accordingly. My experience with SPF is that it's not at this point widely enough deployed so that it can reliably be used as an accept/reject filtering criterion. I tried to do it at one point on my mail servers and got flack right away from customers who couldn't get their legitimate email :-( -- Lindsay Haisley | "We are all broken | PGP public key FMP Computer Services | toasters, but we | available at 512-259-1190 | still manage to make | http://www.fmp.com | toast" | | (Cheryl Dehut) | From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 27 00:12:47 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:12:47 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post toa subscriber only list (SOLVED) In-Reply-To: <1233011260.6603.61.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Lindsay Haisley wrote: > >My experience with SPF is that it's not at this point widely enough >deployed so that it can reliably be used as an accept/reject filtering >criterion. I tried to do it at one point on my mail servers and got >flack right away from customers who couldn't get their legitimate >email :-( Not to mention the additional problem of SPF being totally unable to deal with .forward and the like. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 27 00:19:04 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:19:04 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber only list In-Reply-To: <1233011064.6603.56.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Lindsay Haisley wrote: >On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 16:49 -0600, Grant Taylor wrote: >> Is there a way that we can require some of these things (if they exist) >> to match each other? I.e. to require the 'from' and the 'reply-to' to >> match? > >This might not be such a good idea. A "Reply-To" header is optional is >generally used if a reply should be sent to some address _other_ than >the specified From header address, so if it's present, it may logically >not match the From header address. I'm not so sure about the Sender >header, but I know that it's optional and I believe it's also used to >further "fine tune" information regarding the origin of an email if it's >from an organization. The intent of Sender: is along the lines of From: The Boss Sender: The Boss's Secretary About the only things that you can "normally" expect to match are From: and envelope sender, but even there, there will be legitimate mail in which they won't match. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 27 01:05:02 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:05:02 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber only list In-Reply-To: <1233006151.6603.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Lindsay Haisley wrote: >On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 14:34 -0700, Steve Lindemann wrote: >> would mailman remove it from the header for >> final delivery to the list members? > >Yes, absolutely. Not only in the text/plain part but in every part of a >multipart message in which it occurs. Otherwise it would be the >equivalent of serving up your list security on a silver platter to the >world and passing out carving knives :( As a point of clarification, if the Approved: header is a message header, it will be removed. In order to accommodate those who have difficulty adding arbitrary real headers to messages, the Approved: header can be added as a pseudo-header as the first non-blank line of the first text/plain part of the message. If it is found there, it is also looked for in and removed from other text/* parts of the message. Some caveats are: If a pseudo-header is not in the first text/plain part (e.g. the message is html only), it won't be found or removed, but presumably there was a need for the message to be pre-approved, so it won't go to the list. The removal of the pseudo-header from html and or subsequent parts is a best effort, not a guarantee. It is possible that the header will be sufficiently garbled with additional html tags or entities or other rich text artifacts, that it won't be found. The moral is if at all possible, use a real header. If you have to use a pseudo header, post a text/plain only message or remove non-text plain parts with content filtering. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Tue Jan 27 01:05:05 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 18:05:05 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post toa subscriber only list (SOLVED) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497E4FB1.2010902@riverviewtech.net> On 01/26/09 17:12, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Not to mention the additional problem of SPF being totally unable to > deal with .forward and the like. See, I believe both Lindsay's and Mark's points to be /valid/ points, but not a fault of SPF. Rather I think they (the points) are a fault of the way that people have come to use (read: abuse) email over the years. (If you would like to have a discussion about this, let me know.) Grant. . . . From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Tue Jan 27 01:07:09 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 18:07:09 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriberonly list In-Reply-To: <497E3E04.2090003@riverviewtech.net> References: <497E38AD.9090403@marmot.org> <1233009534.6603.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> <497E3E04.2090003@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <497E502D.3000703@riverviewtech.net> On 01/26/09 16:49, Taylor, Grant wrote: > Is there a way that we can require some of these things (if they exist) > to match each other? I.e. to require the 'from' and the 'reply-to' to > match? Ugh! It's been a *LONG* day. "... I.e. to require the 'from' and the 'return-path' ...". Grant. . . . From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Tue Jan 27 01:09:12 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 18:09:12 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber only list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497E50A8.2070503@riverviewtech.net> On 01/26/09 17:19, Mark Sapiro wrote: > About the only things that you can "normally" expect to match are > From: and envelope sender, but even there, there will be legitimate > mail in which they won't match. I meant the Return-Path with is the SMTP envelope sender. About the only thing that I can think of where the From: and the Return-Path: might not match is a forward or some other thing like that. However I can't see why any one would have addresses forwarding in to a mailing list. Do you have such an example handy? Grant. . . . From rich at math.missouri.edu Tue Jan 27 01:29:57 2009 From: rich at math.missouri.edu (Rich Winkel) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 18:29:57 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman screens by subscriber list before checking sender filter Message-ID: <20090127002957.GU1239@pencil.math.missouri.edu> I have a sublist of an umbrella list. A message from one of the subscribers to the sublist is being held for moderation despite being approved for the umbrella list... any quick fixes? This is mailman-2.1.10. Thanks! Rich From mailman at 1984.is Tue Jan 27 02:02:07 2009 From: mailman at 1984.is (Mordur Ingolfsson) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 01:02:07 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Icelandic: Digest character set problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497E5D0F.3090809@1984.is> Hi, thanks for your reply Mr. Sapiro. I had already tried this: ######### CODE ########### def _(s): return s add_language('en', _('English (USA)'), 'iso-8859-1') del _ ######### CODE ############ as I had found this in some mailing list archive. This does not seem to work. Neither does this: add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'iso-8859-15', 'ltr') Which I also tried. Still stumped. Thanks, Mordur Ingolfsson Mark Sapiro wrote: > Mordur Ingolfsson wrote: > >> I am running a list with mostly Icelandic users. Icelandic character set >> is filled with strange and exotic accents and weird caracters. My digest >> users get those accented characters changed to question marks, such as >> here: >> >> ?eir sem eru ?samm?la ?v? a? leggja ?a? ni?ur svari ?essum p?sti me? >> inf?ldu "nei" >> >> The ordinary subscribers to the list get the messages unchanged. What, I >> ask, am I to do about this? >> > > > The best answer would be to change the list's preferred_language to > Icelandic, but unfortunately, there is no Icelandic i18n for Mailman. > If you or someone or some group you know is interested in translating > Mailman to Icelandic, I'm sure you could get help and advice from the > mailman-i18n at python.org list > . > > The next option, assuming the list's preferred_language is English, is > to change Mailman's character set for English from 'us-ascii' to > 'iso-8859-1'. You (or the Mailman admin at your host) would do this by > putting the line > > add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'iso-8859-1', 'ltr') > > in mm_cfg.py and restarting Mailman. > > From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 27 02:31:41 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:31:41 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Icelandic: Digest character set problem In-Reply-To: <497E5D0F.3090809@1984.is> Message-ID: Mordur Ingolfsson wrote: >Hi, thanks for your reply Mr. Sapiro. I had already tried this: > > >######### CODE ########### >def _(s): > return s > >add_language('en', _('English (USA)'), 'iso-8859-1') > >del _ >######### CODE ############ > >as I had found this in some mailing list archive. This does not seem >to work. Neither does this: > >add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'iso-8859-15', 'ltr') > >Which I also tried. Those two are essentially equivalent. Did you restart Mailman after making that change in mm_cfg.py? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 27 02:41:40 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:41:40 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman screens by subscriber list before checkingsender filter In-Reply-To: <20090127002957.GU1239@pencil.math.missouri.edu> Message-ID: Rich Winkel wrote: >I have a sublist of an umbrella list. A message from one of the >subscribers to the sublist is being held for moderation despite being >approved for the umbrella list... any quick fixes? >This is mailman-2.1.10. Being held by which list? I am unable to understand from the above and subject what is occurring. If you are saying that a sub-list member is in the Umbrella list's accept_these_nonmembers, and the post is being held by the Umbrella list, what is the reason it is held. If post by nonmember, I don't know why this would be. If it is being held by another sub-list of which the poster is not a member, this is normal. If posts to the sublists from the umbrella are to be accepted without being held as non-member posts, the UMBRELLA-bounces at ... address should be a member of each sublist with delivery and password reminders disabled. If this doesn't help, please try to be more specific about exactly what is happening. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From brad at shub-internet.org Tue Jan 27 02:54:52 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 19:54:52 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber onlylist In-Reply-To: <20090126220335.1F1541767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> References: <20090126220335.1F1541767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> Message-ID: <497E696C.5030708@shub-internet.org> on 1/26/09 4:03 PM, Barry Finkel said: > We had a case last week when someone sent mail with a spoofed > > "From: ...." > > line that contained the e-mail address of the list owner. The mail > was delivered to us via a SMTP mailer of an ISP, and we have in the > mail headers the IP address of the sender. Someone tried to hit the mailman-users list like this, and forged my own e-mail address to do it. Fortunately, they got caught by our anti-spam filters and rejected, and I only found out because the bounce message was not deliverable. Oy. I have complained to the ISP in question, but the problem is that replies to that message are going to run afoul of the same anti-spam filter, so I'm probably not going to see them. I'm in the process of trying alternative methods of contact. Fortunately for me, I happen to know the guy who runs the Internet Security group at this large broadband ISP (he's a former co-worker of mine from my AOL days), and he is the primary reason why I consider this to be one of the best large ISPs around. Yes, I am going to be tightening the security on this list. -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 27 03:17:30 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 18:17:30 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman screens by subscriber list before checking sender filter In-Reply-To: <20090127015333.GW1239@pencil.math.missouri.edu> Message-ID: Rich Winkel wrote: > >Sorry, it's being held by the sublist. It's the only sublist of >which the poster is a member. She's flagged for moderation on the >sublist, but the umbrella list bounces address is listed in the >approved sender filter for the sublist. All the other sublists >distributed the email automatically. OK. Now I understand your Subject:, and yes that's the way Mailman works. It first determines if the post is from a member, and if so, if the member is moderated. It does the *_these_nonmember filters and generic_nonmember_action only after determining that the post is not from a member. Also, in this case, even if the UMBRELLA-bounces address were a member, the post would still be held, at least with the Defaults.py setting of SENDER_HEADERS, because it would check the From: header first and stop when the from was found to be a member. The real question is why is this poster moderated on the sub-list? If the intent is that her posts to the umbrella be distributed to all sub-lists without being held, why hold her post if she posts only to one sub-list? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rclemings at gmail.com Tue Jan 27 03:26:28 2009 From: rclemings at gmail.com (Russell Clemings) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 18:26:28 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriberonly list Message-ID: A low-tech fix I've used is to set "max_num_recipients" to a really low number, like 2 or 3. Anything more than that, and the post gets held for approval. Virtually every time I've seen a spam post that spoofs a member's email address, it's had more than a couple of recipients. rac > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Steve Lindemann > To: mailman-users at python.org > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:26:53 -0700 > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriberonly list > Mark Sapiro wrote: >> >> Right. That's why you have to look at the raw archive mbox file (not >> the html archive or the periodic .txt or .txt.gz file). That's the >> only place that will have the original envelope sender in the "From " >> separator and the original Sender:. > > Thanks! Got it! They spoofed a legitimate list member on the Return-Path:, which also showed up on the first ("From ") message header line. The From:, Reply-To: reflected the purported spammer and there was no Sender: in the raw mbox file. The good news is that there was no Approved: or Approve: but we're changing passwords anyway. > > I don't suppose there's anything we can do about this other than change that particular user's email address... is there? > -- > Steve Lindemann __ > Network Administrator //\\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign > Marmot Library Network, Inc. \\// against HTML/RTF email, > http://www.marmot.org //\\ vCards & M$ attachments > +1.970.242.3331 x116 From stephen at xemacs.org Tue Jan 27 03:30:17 2009 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:30:17 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber only list In-Reply-To: <497E50A8.2070503@riverviewtech.net> References: <497E50A8.2070503@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <87zlhdeb0m.fsf@xemacs.org> Grant Taylor writes: > About the only thing that I can think of where the From: and the > Return-Path: might not match is a forward or some other thing like > that. However I can't see why any one would have addresses > forwarding in to a mailing list. > > Do you have such an example handy? Sure. Anybody who uses a single host to send mail but alters their >From according to the venue (me, for example). Anybody whose MTA identifies the envelope sender as user at actual-host.example.com, but whose MUA identifies them as user at example.com in From. Anybody whose mail is handled on somebody else's account, and thus will have a Sender header (typically Return-Path will more likely point to Sender than From in that case). It would be easy to implement in something like SpamAssassin. From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 27 03:48:34 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 18:48:34 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman screens by subscriber list before checking sender filter In-Reply-To: <20090127022947.GX1239@pencil.math.missouri.edu> Message-ID: Rich Winkel wrote: > >Her umbrella posts are moderated also, I was just hoping that approving >a post for the umbrella would approve it for all the sublists as well. OK. I "get it". Here's what you could do. It's not "spoof proof", but it will accomplish what you want I think. Instead of putting the UMBRELLA-bounces address in accept_these_nonmembers of the sub-lists, make that address a member with delivery and password reminders off and unmoderated. Then put SENDER_HEADERS = (None, 'from', 'reply-to', 'sender') in mm_cfg.py and restart Mailman. This will check the envelope sender before From: when testing for a member post. You could instead put SENDER_HEADERS = ('sender', 'from', None, 'reply-to') to check Sender: before From:. Since both Sender: and the envelope sender (indicated by the None entry) are the UMBRELLA-bounces address in posts from the umbrella, they will be accepted by the sub-lists with this set up, even if From: is a nonmember or moderated member. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From brad at shub-internet.org Tue Jan 27 04:13:26 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 21:13:26 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriberonly list In-Reply-To: <497E3E01.9040304@riverviewtech.net> References: <497E38AD.9090403@marmot.org> <497E3E01.9040304@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <497E7BD6.4020801@shub-internet.org> on 1/26/09 4:49 PM, Grant Taylor said: > I would be willing to bet that the spoofed member is really the source > of the message. I would not be at all surprised if that members > computer has malware on it that sent the email (after harvesting it from > the address book) via the default email client and thus the list members > ISP. That may be typical in some cases, but I assure you that it is not the case for when someone else tried to spoof my e-mail address in posting their spam to this mailing list. > I think it would be worth asking the member to send an email to you (or > reply to a request) and compare the headers. If the headers are almost > identical, I'd ask them to run a virus and malware scanner on their > computer. I'd ask even stronger if all the spam messages that came in > came from that same system. Even if they were infected with malware, those programs could easily use a different outbound route than the normal mail sent by that person. So, such a test might turn up something interesting, but then again it doesn't prove anything if it doesn't. Don't depend too much on such tests. -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From brad at shub-internet.org Tue Jan 27 04:17:01 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 21:17:01 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post toa subscriber only list (SOLVED) In-Reply-To: <497E4FB1.2010902@riverviewtech.net> References: <497E4FB1.2010902@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <497E7CAD.3060500@shub-internet.org> on 1/26/09 6:05 PM, Grant Taylor said: > See, I believe both Lindsay's and Mark's points to be /valid/ points, > but not a fault of SPF. Rather I think they (the points) are a fault of > the way that people have come to use (read: abuse) email over the years. This is not the place to debate the relative merits or demerits of SPF. Nothing has changed materially since 2004, when I wrote the blog article at . If you want to debate the relative merits or demerits of SPF, I suggest you take that discussion to spam-l, or one of the other mailing lists where that would be appropriate. -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From brad at shub-internet.org Tue Jan 27 04:18:09 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 21:18:09 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber only list In-Reply-To: <497E50A8.2070503@riverviewtech.net> References: <497E50A8.2070503@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <497E7CF1.4000207@shub-internet.org> on 1/26/09 6:09 PM, Grant Taylor said: > I meant the Return-Path with is the SMTP envelope sender. In theory, your MTA should be putting the envelope sender address into the "Return-Path:" header, so these two should always match. If not, then you should talk to the vendor of your MTA software. -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From john_espiro at yahoo.com Tue Jan 27 05:11:30 2009 From: john_espiro at yahoo.com (john espiro) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 20:11:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] config.pck get changed back from correct values... Message-ID: <619719.5498.qm@web46005.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> On the web interface, every day, the ownership for config.ock gets changed: /var/lib/mailman/lists/MYLIST/config.pck gets set to mailman:mailman, while all other files and fodlers remain webadmin:mailman. The result is that if I try to use the web interface, I get: Bug in Mailman version 2.1.11 We're sorry, we hit a bug! Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. Once I set the *.pck file ownership to webadmin:mailman, everything works. I tried checking check_perms and it reports back that there are no errors. Any thoughts? Thanks, John From kjohnson at pcc.edu Mon Jan 26 20:43:41 2009 From: kjohnson at pcc.edu (Kirke Johnson) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:43:41 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounced addresses stays there In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200901261943.n0QJhiYn019626@mailout.pcc.edu> I have been attempting to test out the bounce processing on a test list and am confused by the results so far. We are running Mailman 2.1.9 on RHEL, installed with the OS. The test list (tsstst) has the following settings: bounce_score_threshold: 1.0 (originally 5.0) bounce_info_stale_after: 7 bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings: 0 - for immediate removal (originally 3) bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval: 7 I have sent four test messages thus far, with an invalid list member "bogus at example.org". The first two tests were on 1/22. The first one detected the bounce and issued the unsubscribe notification that "bogus at example.org has been removed from Tsstst". The member was still listed in the membership list, and did not go away when /usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled ran the next morning. The second message on the 22nd did not yield a bounce. Today (still within the 7 day warning interval), I sent two more test messages with the identical results. Running "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/list_members -n bybounce tsstst" as suggested below produces no output. Is there another way to examine the counters inside the "black box" to see what is going on? I can conceive of this process dragging on a couple more days before the original disabled_warnings threshhold of 3 is reached and the disabled cron job has a final chance to run, if that is even worth doing at this point. Thanks for your help in supporting Mailman! At 10:49 PM 12/20/2008, you wrote: >faisal anif wrote: > > > >I have the following settings: > > > >bounce_score_threshold: 2.0 > >bounce_info_stale_after: 7 > >bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings: 0 - for immediate removal > >bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval: 7 > > > >then I notice that the addresses that have delivery disabled for > bounce reason is still in the members list and not completely > removed from the list .. which is not good becasue I want them > totally removed and know the exact number of active members .. > > > >how can I do that? > > >The settings you have will do that. If you recently reduced >bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings to 0 from some other number, those >members whose delivery was disabled by bounce at the time of the >reduction will still get the number of warnings they were set to get >when their delivery was disabled before they are removed. Also, >cron/disabled has to be run in order to send the warnings and >ultimately remove the members. > >If you don't want to wait for these to be automatically removed, you >can always remove them via the admin interface or if you have command >line access, do > >bin/list_members -n bybounce LISTNAME | bin/remove_members -f - LISTNAME > >which will remove all members with delivery disabled by bounce. > >In any case any members who in the future bounce on two out of seven >days will be immediately removed. > >-- >Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, >San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > >------------------------------------------------------ >Mailman-Users mailing list >Mailman-Users at python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users >Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ >Unsubscribe: >http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/kjohnson%40pcc.edu > >Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kirke Johnson Internet: kjohnson at pcc.edu Email Administrator, TSS , Sylvania Campus http://www.pcc.edu/ Portland Community College, Portland, OR, USA (503) 977-4368 From mihamina at lab.vectoris.fr Tue Jan 27 07:28:48 2009 From: mihamina at lab.vectoris.fr (Mihamina Rakotomandimby (R12y)) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:28:48 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe a list to a list Message-ID: <497EA9A0.5040408@lab.vectoris.fr> Hi, What would be the surprising effects if I subscribe a list to a list? It's just a customer whish, and I never did it and wonder what could happen... -- Chef de projet chez Vectoris http://www.google.com/search?q=mihamina+rakotomandimby From b19141 at anl.gov Tue Jan 27 14:19:05 2009 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:19:05 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to asubscriber onlylist Message-ID: <20090127131905.94FFA1767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 16:03 -0600, Barry Finkel wrote: >> We had a case last week when someone sent mail with a spoofed >> >> "From: ...." >> >> line that contained the e-mail address of the list owner. I also wrote: >> In our case, the list owner temporarily moderated his e-mail address. And Lindsay Haisley replied: >Unless the list owner is also a subscriber with his/her mod flag turned >off, the fact that something is posted from an owner or moderator >address carries no weight with Mailman. I have to deal with this all >the time with distribution-only lists which have everyone's moderator >flag turned off, and the customer gets a new mail admin staffer who >doesn't understand how to use the list, and even though they're listed >as list owner they can't post until they subscribe and unset their mod >flag (or use an Approved: pseudo-header). The list owner is subscribed and is an active participant in the list. If the list owner had not been subscribed, he could not have temporarily moderated his e-mail address. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From mailman at 1984.is Tue Jan 27 14:16:57 2009 From: mailman at 1984.is (Mordur Ingolfsson) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:16:57 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Icelandic: Digest character set problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497F0949.4020500@1984.is> Mark Sapiro wrote: > Mordur Ingolfsson wrote: > > >> Hi, thanks for your reply Mr. Sapiro. I had already tried this: >> >> >> ######### CODE ########### >> def _(s): >> return s >> >> add_language('en', _('English (USA)'), 'iso-8859-1') >> >> del _ >> ######### CODE ############ >> >> as I had found this in some mailing list archive. This does not seem >> to work. Neither does this: >> >> add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'iso-8859-15', 'ltr') >> >> Which I also tried. >> > > > Those two are essentially equivalent. > > Did you restart Mailman after making that change in mm_cfg.py? > > Yes, I did. Adding this to mm_cfg.pydid induce some change. Before the advent of these lines some users got the accented letters in their direct, non-digest mail all garbled but this fixed that. It is only the digest mail that remains riddled with question marks. All the best, Mordur Ingolfsson From b19141 at anl.gov Tue Jan 27 15:04:07 2009 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 08:04:07 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounced addresses stays there In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Kirke Johnson ' dated: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:43:41 -0800 Message-ID: <20090127140407.559411767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> Kirke Johnson wrote: >I have been attempting to test out the bounce processing on a test >list and am confused by the results so far. We are running Mailman >2.1.9 on RHEL, installed with the OS. > >The test list (tsstst) has the following settings: > >bounce_score_threshold: 1.0 (originally 5.0) >bounce_info_stale_after: 7 >bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings: 0 - for immediate removal (originally 3) >bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval: 7 > >I have sent four test messages thus far, with an invalid list member >"bogus at example.org". The first two tests were on 1/22. The first one >detected the bounce and issued the unsubscribe notification that >"bogus at example.org has been removed from Tsstst". The member was >still listed in the membership list, and did not go away when >/usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled ran the next morning. The second >message on the 22nd did not yield a bounce. > >Today (still within the 7 day warning interval), I sent two more test >messages with the identical results. Running >"/usr/lib/mailman/bin/list_members -n bybounce tsstst" as suggested >below produces no output. > >Is there another way to examine the counters inside the "black box" >to see what is going on? I can conceive of this process dragging on a >couple more days before the original disabled_warnings threshhold of >3 is reached and the disabled cron job has a final chance to run, if >that is even worth doing at this point. Note that the bounce score will only increase once per day, no matter how many rejections there are for that address in that day. Five days with succesive bounces will result in a bounce score of 5.0, and if that is the limit, the subscriber will be set to NOMAIL. It takes an additional three weeks (default) for Mailman to send a confirmation message back to the subscriber - one per week - until the address is unsubscribed Mailman to send a confirmation message back to the subscriber - one per week - until the address is unsubscribed. There is a report that you can run. From the shell script I run every morning to report on bounces in all my Mailman 2.1.11 lists: # The get_bounce_info python source came from # # From http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/get_bounce_info.py # # via a posting to mailman-users on 05/29/2007; I installed the source # on katydid in # # /usr/lib/mailman/bin/get_bounce_info.py # # The following command will give a report for all lists. The output # has three lines for each list (as well as messages to stderr), so # any bounce information is lost in the clutter of all those lists that # have no subscribers with bounce scores greater than zero. # # /usr/sbin/withlist -a -r get_bounce_info ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Tue Jan 27 16:25:25 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:25:25 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber only list In-Reply-To: <87zlhdeb0m.fsf@xemacs.org> References: <497E50A8.2070503@riverviewtech.net> <87zlhdeb0m.fsf@xemacs.org> Message-ID: <497F2765.8080107@riverviewtech.net> On 01/26/09 20:30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Sure. Anybody who uses a single host to send mail but alters their > From according to the venue (me, for example). Anybody whose MTA > identifies the envelope sender as user at actual-host.example.com, but > whose MUA identifies them as user at example.com in From. Anybody whose > mail is handled on somebody else's account, and thus will have a > Sender header (typically Return-Path will more likely point to Sender > than From in that case). I can see how altering your From (depending on where you are sending to) could be a possibility. Though I think that the MTA sending out as @.. is a mis-configuration on the MTA's part. As far as the Sender: header, I can see that, thus I refine my statement such that either the (preferably) From: or the Sender: headers should match the SMTP envelope sender / Return-Path: header. > It would be easy to implement in something like SpamAssassin. *nod* This may be a very valid point. I wonder what it would take to add a new rule that would add a small score if things did not match like the likely should. Every little bit helps and I don't think a little bit would hurt otherwise valid messages. Grant. . . . From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Tue Jan 27 16:27:48 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:27:48 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriberonly list In-Reply-To: <497E7BD6.4020801@shub-internet.org> References: <497E38AD.9090403@marmot.org> <497E3E01.9040304@riverviewtech.net> <497E7BD6.4020801@shub-internet.org> Message-ID: <497F27F4.1080409@riverviewtech.net> On 01/26/09 21:13, Brad Knowles wrote: > Even if they were infected with malware, those programs could easily use > a different outbound route than the normal mail sent by that person. So, > such a test might turn up something interesting, but then again it > doesn't prove anything if it doesn't. Agreed. However it does make things rather nice when things do correlate like that. Or at least when the original (purported) sending host is either at the same IP, or at the very least in the same class C subnet. Grant. . . . From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 27 17:10:48 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 08:10:48 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] config.pck get changed back from correct values... In-Reply-To: <619719.5498.qm@web46005.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: john espiro wrote: >On the web interface, every day, the ownership for config.ock gets changed: > >/var/lib/mailman/lists/MYLIST/config.pck gets set to mailman:mailman, while all other files and fodlers remain webadmin:mailman. When ever the list is updated, the process creates a new, temporary file, and only after successfully updating that file does it rename it to config.pck. Thus, every time a list is updated in any way, the owner of config.pck becomes the owner of the process that did the update, in this case, the qrunners. >The result is that if I try to use the web interface, I get: > >Bug in Mailman version 2.1.11 > >We're sorry, we hit a bug! > >Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. > >Once I set the *.pck file ownership to webadmin:mailman, everything works. There is something wrong in your installation. Either the CGI wrappers (the files in Mailman's cgi-bin directory) are not group mailman and SETGID, or your web server/OS is not honoring the SETGID bit and setting the effective group of the CGI process to mailman. In short, the owner of config.pck shouldn't matter because access is supposed to be by group. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 27 17:54:25 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 08:54:25 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounced addresses stays there In-Reply-To: <200901261943.n0QJhiYn019626@mailout.pcc.edu> Message-ID: Kirke Johnson wrote: >I have been attempting to test out the bounce processing on a test >list and am confused by the results so far. We are running Mailman >2.1.9 on RHEL, installed with the OS. > >The test list (tsstst) has the following settings: > >bounce_score_threshold: 1.0 (originally 5.0) >bounce_info_stale_after: 7 >bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings: 0 - for immediate removal (originally 3) >bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval: 7 > >I have sent four test messages thus far, with an invalid list member >"bogus at example.org". The first two tests were on 1/22. The first one >detected the bounce and issued the unsubscribe notification that >"bogus at example.org has been removed from Tsstst". The member was >still listed in the membership list, and did not go away when >/usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled ran the next morning. The second >message on the 22nd did not yield a bounce. If bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings is 0, cron/disabled is not involved in removing the bouncing member. The member should be removed immediately. The fact that you received an unsubscribed notice and the subsequent message didn't yield a bounce would seem to say the bogus address was in fact removed. What "membership list" are you looking at? Could it be stale? >Today (still within the 7 day warning interval), I sent two more test >messages with the identical results. The 7 day interval is only meaningful if bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings is non-zero. Identical results? You mean the first message bounced and unsubscribed the member and the second message wasn't sent (or at least didn't bounce)? What do your MTA logs say about what was sent and what bounced? >Running >"/usr/lib/mailman/bin/list_members -n bybounce tsstst" as suggested >below produces no output. This only lists members who are still members but whose delivery is disabled by bounce. With bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 0, there should never be any. >Is there another way to examine the counters inside the "black box" >to see what is going on? I can conceive of this process dragging on a >couple more days before the original disabled_warnings threshhold of >3 is reached and the disabled cron job has a final chance to run, if >that is even worth doing at this point. If the original bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 3 is the issue, the address will still be a member with delivery disabled by bounce. It will appear as such on the web admin Membership list and will be listed by /usr/lib/mailman/bin/list_members -n bybounce tsstst What's in Mailman's logs, particularly bounce and smtp-failure. Do you by chance have VERP_PROBES = Yes (or On or True or 1) in mm_cfg.py? If so, when threshold is reached, score is reset and a VERP like probe is sent. If that doesn't bounce or if the bounce is not correctly delivered, the member will never be removed. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jan 27 19:07:39 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:07:39 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Icelandic: Digest character set problem In-Reply-To: <497F0949.4020500@1984.is> Message-ID: Mordur Ingolfsson wrote: > >Mark Sapiro wrote: >> >> Did you restart Mailman after making that change in mm_cfg.py? >> >> >Yes, I did. Adding this to mm_cfg.pydid induce some change. Before the >advent of these lines some users got the accented letters in their >direct, non-digest mail all garbled but this fixed that. It is only the >digest mail that remains riddled with question marks. Note that users may try selecting the MIME format digest rather that the plain format. Depending on their MUAs, they may prefer this. It's not a solution to the problem, but it may be an acceptable work around for some users. What Mailman version is this? If this is not a recent (2.1.9+) Mailman, that may be the problem. It may also have to do with the messages themselves if they don't specify an appropriate character set. Also, what do the messages look like in the archive? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Tue Jan 27 20:19:36 2009 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:19:36 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber only list In-Reply-To: <497F2765.8080107@riverviewtech.net> References: <497E50A8.2070503@riverviewtech.net> <87zlhdeb0m.fsf@xemacs.org> <497F2765.8080107@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <1233083977.6623.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 09:25 -0600, Grant Taylor wrote: > I can see how altering your From (depending on where you are sending to) > could be a possibility. Though I think that the MTA sending out as > @.. is a mis-configuration on the MTA's part. > As far as the Sender: header, I can see that, thus I refine my statement > such that either the (preferably) From: or the Sender: headers should > match the SMTP envelope sender / Return-Path: header. Please see Sec. 3.6 of RFC 2822 for a full discussion of various e-mail header fields and their proper uses and meanings, and RFC 2821 for a discussion of the trace fields, such as Return-Path. It is not a misconfiguration of a MTA for for the envelope sender to be of the form "@.." as long as this is a working address. Mail systems which are unable to deliver a received email are required to use the Return-Path address (the SMTP envelope sender address) to which to send DSNs and NDRs. All the header fields which we're discussing here have very precisely defined uses, and the nuances of these field definitions are, I believe, somewhat OT for this list. IMHO, it would be an error to try to force any of these fields to match one another without fully understanding their intended uses. There is, unfortunately, way too much of this sort of thing these days as people writing email management software, including some pretty big players, have played fast and lose with the RFCs and have muddied the waters for the rest of us who are trying to make the Internet email system work cleanly and reliably. -- Lindsay Haisley | "Everything works | PGP public key FMP Computer Services | if you let it" | available at 512-259-1190 | (The Roadie) | http://pubkeys.fmp.com http://www.fmp.com | | From b19141 at anl.gov Tue Jan 27 20:51:48 2009 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:51:48 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber only list In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Lindsay Haisley ' dated: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:19:36 -0600 Message-ID: <20090127195148.8303D1767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> >Please see Sec. 3.6 of RFC 2822 for a full discussion of various e-mail >header fields and their proper uses and meanings, and RFC 2821 for a >discussion of the trace fields, such as Return-Path. It is not a >misconfiguration of a MTA for for the envelope sender to be of the form >"@.." as long as this is a working address. >Mail systems which are unable to deliver a received email are required >to use the Return-Path address (the SMTP envelope sender address) to >which to send DSNs and NDRs. I was surprised to learn last week that RFC 2822 has been made obsolete by RFC 5322, and 2821 by 5321. I think that the major changes wre to clear up sections where there were differences of interpretation. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Tue Jan 27 21:04:56 2009 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:04:56 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber only list In-Reply-To: <497F2765.8080107@riverviewtech.net> References: <497E50A8.2070503@riverviewtech.net> <87zlhdeb0m.fsf@xemacs.org> <497F2765.8080107@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <1233086696.6623.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 09:25 -0600, Grant Taylor wrote: > Though I think that the MTA sending out as > @.. is a mis-configuration on the MTA's part. It should be noted as well that it's not the MTA's job to set the envelope sender address, nor is there any configuration in a proper MTA to default this address to anything in particular. This is done by the MUA (or equivalent) which engages the MTA for the purpose of sending an email, and if an envelope sender address isn't provided, the MTA will complain and refuse to continue with a session. -- Lindsay Haisley | "In an open world, | PGP public key FMP Computer Services | who needs Windows | available at 512-259-1190 | or Gates" | http://pubkeys.fmp.com http://www.fmp.com | | From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Tue Jan 27 21:11:31 2009 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:11:31 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber only list In-Reply-To: <20090127195148.8303D1767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> References: <20090127195148.8303D1767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> Message-ID: <20090127201131.GE1959@amyl.org.uk> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 01:51:48PM -0600, Barry Finkel wrote: > I was surprised to learn last week that RFC 2822 has been made > obsolete by RFC 5322, and 2821 by 5321. I think that the major > changes wre to clear up sections where there were differences of > interpretation. I saw the update/obsoletion via http://twitter.com/rfc -- ``What does it mean? It means I never have to work again.'' (Don McLean, on `American Pie', attrib.) From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Tue Jan 27 23:46:14 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:46:14 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber only list In-Reply-To: <1233083977.6623.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <497E50A8.2070503@riverviewtech.net> <87zlhdeb0m.fsf@xemacs.org> <497F2765.8080107@riverviewtech.net> <1233083977.6623.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <497F8EB6.20407@riverviewtech.net> On 01/27/09 13:19, Lindsay Haisley wrote: > It is not a misconfiguration of a MTA for for the envelope sender to > be of the form "@.." as long as this is a > working address. Agreed. I was referring to the common question on MTA support lists along the lines of "Why is sending emails out as '@..' and not '@.' like it should be?". In this case, it is indeed an MTA mis-configuration on their ends, automatically adding the (incorrect) host / domain name to uncanonical sending email addresses. Grant. . . . From gerdmoritz at googlemail.com Tue Jan 27 17:26:55 2009 From: gerdmoritz at googlemail.com (Gerd Moritz) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:26:55 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman with postfix and virtual mailbox domains Message-ID: Hello, I have a postfix server running which can handle mail for 3 domains via "virtual mailbox domains". Now I want to use mailman to offer mailinglists for those 3 domains. I read the documentation and found http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html but this seems only be relevant for "virtual alias domains" which is not what I am using. How is mailman/posfix supposed to be configured for usage with "virtual mailbox domains" ? Thanks a lot and greetings, Gerd Moritz From kjohnson at pcc.edu Tue Jan 27 19:44:41 2009 From: kjohnson at pcc.edu (Kirke Johnson) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:44:41 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounced addresses stays there In-Reply-To: References: <200901261943.n0QJhiYn019626@mailout.pcc.edu> Message-ID: <200901271844.n0RIiorT012623@mailout.pcc.edu> At 08:54 AM 1/27/2009, Mark Sapiro wrote: >Kirke Johnson wrote: (-- snip --) >If bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings is 0, cron/disabled is not involved >in removing the bouncing member. The member should be removed >immediately. The fact that you received an unsubscribed notice and the >subsequent message didn't yield a bounce would seem to say the bogus >address was in fact removed. > >What "membership list" are you looking at? Could it be stale? I have been refreshing the Membership List in the admin GUI for the list. >Identical results? You mean the first message bounced and unsubscribed >the member and the second message wasn't sent (or at least didn't >bounce)? The first message bounced and unsubscribed the member, but they did not go away. The second message did not bounce as there was already a bounce that day. (-- snip --) >Do you by chance have > >VERP_PROBES = Yes > >(or On or True or 1) in mm_cfg.py? If so, when threshold is reached, >score is reset and a VERP like probe is sent. If that doesn't bounce >or if the bounce is not correctly delivered, the member will never be >removed. YES! This was the problem - thanks!! After changing the configuration, the next test message removed the member very nicely. >-- >Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, >San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kirke Johnson Internet: kjohnson at pcc.edu Email Administrator, TSS , Sylvania Campus http://www.pcc.edu/ Portland Community College, Portland, OR, USA (503) 977-4368 From lubkin at lubkin.net Tue Jan 27 15:59:58 2009 From: lubkin at lubkin.net (David Lubkin) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:59:58 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Additional scripts and web forms Message-ID: <20090127152217.17D5A1E4002@bag.python.org> Are there Internet repositories of Mailman scripts and customization beyond what comes with the distribution? I keep having ideas for obvious capabilities that are missing, e.g., - an inverse of add_members (instead of an input file of users to add to a single list, have an input file of lists to add a single user to) - a web form that allows a user to subscribe to many lists at once, using the same settings - integrating with an existing user authentication system - when showing the list of lists, have optional columns (how many members and messages each list has, language of the list, etc.) and make the list user-sortable on any of those columns None of these are hard to just write myself, but a good lazy programmer doesn't when he can just leverage what's already been done. -- David Lubkin. From lubkin at lubkin.net Tue Jan 27 16:02:49 2009 From: lubkin at lubkin.net (David Lubkin) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:02:49 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Retaining HTML in archives Message-ID: <20090127152218.C4B4B1E4002@bag.python.org> It was easy enough to tweak settings so that messages sent in HTML are distributed to a list as HTML, including embedded images. But I'm not clear, after googling around the Mailman-Users archives and checking the FAQs, how to have the same effect when a list's archives are browsed. Where a multi-part message has both text and HTML, I want the HTML displayed when archives are browsed. When there's an embedded image, I want an tag whose linktext points into the attachments directory. -- David Lubkin. From mihamina at lab.vectoris.fr Tue Jan 27 17:40:34 2009 From: mihamina at lab.vectoris.fr (Mihamina Rakotomandimby) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 19:40:34 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe a list to a list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497F3902.1080205@lab.vectoris.fr> Mark Sapiro wrote: >> What would be the surprising effects if I subscribe a list to a list? >> It's just a customer whish, and I never did it and wonder what could >> happen... > Why do they want to do this? > There is loop protection, I meant subcribing a list to another list. I dont know why they want to, but they just want... From Tlf1 at ccs135.com Tue Jan 27 16:07:02 2009 From: Tlf1 at ccs135.com (Tim Ferguson) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:07:02 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Linux Preferred? Message-ID: <497ECE34.1AD2.00BD.0@ccs135.com> Is there a preferred flavor of Linux that Mailman seems to work and install the best with? I'm trying Ubuntu, but the apt-get feature is getting hung up on trying to find the repositories and can't, so, until I get that fixed I just thought I'd ask. Thanks for any ideas and suggestions, Tim Tim Ferguson Director of Technology Centralia City Schools Centralia, Illinois 62801 618-532-1907, Ext. 1030 From brad at shub-internet.org Wed Jan 28 08:08:24 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 01:08:24 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe a list to a list In-Reply-To: <497F3902.1080205@lab.vectoris.fr> References: <497F3902.1080205@lab.vectoris.fr> Message-ID: <49800468.2090207@shub-internet.org> on 1/27/09 10:40 AM, Mihamina Rakotomandimby said: > I meant subcribing a list to another list. > I dont know why they want to, but they just want... Umbrella lists do this, but they don't exactly work the way you would think they work, and unless you have a decent idea of what you're doing and why then you're probably not going to be too happy with the results. Just think about the issue of periodic password reminders being sent out, and automatic unsubscriptions due to bouncing, for two factors off the top of my head that need to be considered. -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From brad at shub-internet.org Wed Jan 28 08:13:15 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 01:13:15 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Linux Preferred? In-Reply-To: <497ECE34.1AD2.00BD.0@ccs135.com> References: <497ECE34.1AD2.00BD.0@ccs135.com> Message-ID: <4980058B.6090208@shub-internet.org> on 1/27/09 9:07 AM, Tim Ferguson said: > Is there a preferred flavor of Linux that Mailman seems to work and > install the best with? I'm trying Ubuntu, but the apt-get feature is > getting hung up on trying to find the repositories and can't, so, > until I get that fixed I just thought I'd ask. If you're installing from our source, then most any recent version of Linux should work fine. If you're installing from someone else's binary packages, then you are dependent on the person doing the packaging -- they have to keep up with our releases, back-port patches, etc.... On python.org, where we host all the official mailman-* mailing lists, Debian works just fine. But we run the version from our own source, and not the binary packaged version. On another site I help administer, FreeBSD works just fine. But again, I run the version from our source and not the "ports" version. Last I heard, the folks at lists.apple.com were running one of the largest Mailman mailing list servers in the world, and they were running just fine with our sources on Mac OS X Server -- not the version that Apple took and modified, and then turned around to ship to their customers. -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From stephen at xemacs.org Wed Jan 28 10:14:49 2009 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:14:49 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Additional scripts and web forms In-Reply-To: <20090127152217.17D5A1E4002@bag.python.org> References: <20090127152217.17D5A1E4002@bag.python.org> Message-ID: <87fxj3eqra.fsf@xemacs.org> David Lubkin writes: > - an inverse of add_members (instead of an input file of users > to add to a single list, have an input file of lists to add a single > user to) > > - a web form that allows a user to subscribe to many lists at once, > using the same settings > > - integrating with an existing user authentication system All of the above will be provided in Mailman 3. > - when showing the list of lists, have optional columns (how many > members and messages each list has, language of the list, etc.) > and make the list user-sortable on any of those columns Don't know about that one. The main repository of contributions beyond the distribution would be in the issue tracker. From b19141 at anl.gov Wed Jan 28 15:14:00 2009 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:14:00 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Linux Preferred? In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Tim Ferguson" ' dated: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:07:02 -0600 Message-ID: <20090128141400.207331767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> "Tim Ferguson" wrote: >Is there a preferred flavor of Linux that Mailman seems to work and >install the best with? I'm trying Ubuntu, but the apt-get feature is >getting hung up on trying to find the repositories and can't, so, until >I get that fixed I just thought I'd ask. > >Thanks for any ideas and suggestions, Note that the Debian/Ubuntu packaging of Mailman has some patches that are undocumented. And there is one patch that removes a library that is sometimes needed. That is why I used the SourceForge source and built my own Mailman 2.1.11 package that I am running in production on Ubuntu. There are lots of postings in the list archives where people are running "foreign" versions of Mailman, and limited help from the Mailman developers on this list is available. In the case of Debian/Ubuntu, I could not determine what each of the patches did, so I do not know how much the changes therein would affect the support available on this list. I did look at three security patches for Mailman, and two of the three were exactly what was in the SourceForge Mailman; one differed. And I did not look at the code in detail to see if the one that differed had the same basic correction that the SourceForge patch had. It took me a while to figure out how to build a package, but now that I know how to do it, I can give instructions to anyone who wants them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From b19141 at anl.gov Wed Jan 28 15:42:58 2009 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:42:58 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Additional scripts and web forms In-Reply-To: Mail from 'David Lubkin ' dated: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:59:58 -0500 Message-ID: <20090128144258.5B8F81767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> David Lubkin wrote: >Are there Internet repositories of Mailman scripts and customization >beyond what comes with the distribution? > >I keep having ideas for obvious capabilities that are missing, e.g., > >- an inverse of add_members (instead of an input file of users >to add to a single list, have an input file of lists to add a single >user to) > >- a web form that allows a user to subscribe to many lists at once, >using the same settings > >- integrating with an existing user authentication system > >- when showing the list of lists, have optional columns (how many >members and messages each list has, language of the list, etc.) >and make the list user-sortable on any of those columns > >None of these are hard to just write myself, but a good lazy >programmer doesn't when he can just leverage what's already >been done. The only "repository" of which I am aware is the archives of this list. A script (or basic code for one) for " an inverse of add_members" is in the archives, I believe. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From b19141 at anl.gov Wed Jan 28 16:19:38 2009 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:19:38 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscriber managed to post to a subscriber only list In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Adam McGreggor ' dated: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:11:31 +0000 Message-ID: <20090128151938.1A79C1767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 01:51:48PM -0600, Barry Finkel wrote: >> I was surprised to learn last week that RFC 2822 has been made >> obsolete by RFC 5322, and 2821 by 5321. I think that the major >> changes wre to clear up sections where there were differences of >> interpretation. and Adam McGreggor replied: >I saw the update/obsoletion via http://twitter.com/rfc I was a subscriber to the DRUMS mailing list when that group was revising RFCs 821 and 822 to produce 2821 and 2822. I do not remember having unsubscribed from that list, but I have seen no activity on that list after 2821 and 2822 were issued. So, revisions to those two RFCs caught me by surprise. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 28 16:41:56 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 07:41:56 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman with postfix and virtual mailbox domains In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Gerd Moritz wrote: >I have a postfix server running which can handle mail for 3 domains >via "virtual mailbox domains". >Now I want to use mailman to offer mailinglists for those 3 domains. >I read the documentation and found >http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html >but this seems only be relevant for "virtual alias domains" which is >not what I am using. > >How is mailman/posfix supposed to be configured for usage with >"virtual mailbox domains" ? As you have discovered, Mailman/Postfix integration with Postfix virtual domains uses virtual alias domains, not virtual mailbox domains. If you want/need to use virtual mailbox domains, I'm afraid at this point you're on your own. Mailman supports two delivery methods. The normal method is delivery to a command via a pipe using aliases or some programmatic transport in some MTAs which support it. This is not delivery to a mailbox, so virtual mailbox domains will not support this. The other method is delivery to a MAILDIR. See the comments both before and after the line "USE_MAILDIR = No" in Defaults.py. It is possible to use MAILDIR delivery for addresses in virtual mailbox maps, so you can probably set this up, but you would have to modify Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py to generate the proper maps or maintain them manually. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jan 28 17:28:32 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:28:32 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Retaining HTML in archives In-Reply-To: <20090127152218.C4B4B1E4002@bag.python.org> Message-ID: David Lubkin wrote: > >Where a multi-part message has both text and HTML, I want the >HTML displayed when archives are browsed. When there's an >embedded image, I want an tag whose linktext points >into the attachments directory. The built-in pipermail archiver won't do this. You need to use an external archiver for this kind of functionality. See the comments in Defaults.py preceeding the "ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER = 1" setting. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From vancleef at lostwells.net Wed Jan 28 18:08:23 2009 From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:08:23 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Linux Preferred? In-Reply-To: <4980058B.6090208@shub-internet.org> Message-ID: <200901281708.n0SH8NXc006624@julie.lostwells.net> The esteemed Brad Knowles has said: > > on 1/27/09 9:07 AM, Tim Ferguson said: > > > Is there a preferred flavor of Linux that Mailman seems to work and > > install the best with? I'm trying Ubuntu, but the apt-get feature is > > getting hung up on trying to find the repositories and can't, so, > > until I get that fixed I just thought I'd ask. > > If you're installing from our source, then most any recent version of > Linux should work fine. If you're installing from someone else's binary > packages, then you are dependent on the person doing the packaging -- > they have to keep up with our releases, back-port patches, etc.... > > > On python.org, where we host all the official mailman-* mailing lists, > Debian works just fine. But we run the version from our own source, and > not the binary packaged version. > I have to put in another "plug" for building Mailman from sources vs. doing a prepackaged install built by somebody else. I have just built and installed Mailman 2.1.11 and 2.1.12rc1 on Solaris 10 following the installation guide at http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/index.html If you've got an appropriate Python installed and have a compiler on the build machine, actually configuring, building, and installing the Mailman application is the easiest part of the job. The remainder are very straightforward systems administration tasks to get the mailman account set up properly and get correct permissions on everything. We also built Mailman 2.1.9 on a Debian machine a couple of years ago. Another guy did the work and had problems because he did not follow the Installation Guide completely. I was asked to audit and correct things, which involved no more than correcting group name and permissions as outlined in the Installation Guide. I have always been an advocate for building from source rather than using prepackaged as the default choice for add-on programs. Only when I trust a pre-built package (as with the sendmail and bind in the Solaris distribution) do I use a prepackaged version. Hank From jbernier at risd.edu Wed Jan 28 17:31:01 2009 From: jbernier at risd.edu (Jeff Bernier) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:31:01 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email Forwarding Service Message-ID: Does anyone know what would be a good solution for an email forwarding service? Either hosted or something we could deploy in-house. Something that would simply forward messages sent to mailboxuser at risd.edu on to an address of mailboxusers choice. Something that would be self-service? Any ideas are welcome. Regards, Jeff From b19141 at anl.gov Wed Jan 28 20:43:58 2009 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 13:43:58 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Linux Preferred? In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Hank van Cleef ' dated: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:08:23 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <20090128194358.D5FB41767D@britaine.cis.anl.gov> The esteemed Brad Knowles has said: >> >> on 1/27/09 9:07 AM, Tim Ferguson said: >> >> > Is there a preferred flavor of Linux that Mailman seems to work and >> > install the best with? I'm trying Ubuntu, but the apt-get feature is >> > getting hung up on trying to find the repositories and can't, so, >> > until I get that fixed I just thought I'd ask. >> >> If you're installing from our source, then most any recent version of >> Linux should work fine. If you're installing from someone else's binary >> packages, then you are dependent on the person doing the packaging -- >> they have to keep up with our releases, back-port patches, etc.... >> >> >> On python.org, where we host all the official mailman-* mailing lists, >> Debian works just fine. But we run the version from our own source, and >> not the binary packaged version. and Hank van Cleef replied: >I have to put in another "plug" for building Mailman from sources vs. >doing a prepackaged install built by somebody else. I have just >built and installed Mailman 2.1.11 and 2.1.12rc1 on Solaris 10 >following the installation guide at > >http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/index.html > >If you've got an appropriate Python installed and have a compiler on >the build machine, actually configuring, building, and installing the >Mailman application is the easiest part of the job. The remainder are >very straightforward systems administration tasks to get the mailman >account set up properly and get correct permissions on everything. > >We also built Mailman 2.1.9 on a Debian machine a couple of years ago. >Another guy did the work and had problems because he did not follow >the Installation Guide completely. I was asked to audit and correct >things, which involved no more than correcting group name and >permissions as outlined in the Installation Guide. > >I have always been an advocate for building from source rather than >using prepackaged as the default choice for add-on programs. Only >when I trust a pre-built package (as with the sendmail and bind in the >Solaris distribution) do I use a prepackaged version. One of the requirements from my management when I installed Mailman on Ubuntu was that all installs had to be done via packages. That is why I built the Mailman 2.1.9 and 2.1.11 packages. For other software - for example, Postfix, Apache2, Python - I could live with the Ubuntu-supplied packages. Until there is a major problem with something in the package that it takes the Ubuntu support staff too long to fix (which may never happen). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Wed Jan 28 21:43:08 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:43:08 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email Forwarding Service In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4980C35C.2030606@riverviewtech.net> On 01/28/09 10:31, Jeff Bernier wrote: > Does anyone know what would be a good solution for an email > forwarding service? Either hosted or something we could deploy > in-house. Depending on what ""features (or lack of faults) you are wanting there are quite a few things that /can/ be done. However I don't think that Mailman (as good a product as it is) is even on the list of things that can be done. Mailman is intended to re-send messages that were sent to one mailing list address out to to multiple mailing list subscribers, Where as forwarding is usually a 1 to 1 type of thing, not the 1 to many that Mailman is meant for. > Something that would simply forward messages sent to > mailboxuser at risd.edu on to an address of mailboxusers choice. > Something that would be self-service? It sounds like you are already part way down the very slippery slop with roller skates on and the wind at your back. > Any ideas are welcome. I'm not sure that the Mailman Users mailing list is the best place to discuss this. If you would like to do so off list, drop me an email directly and I'll give you my opinion on this topic. Or if others say that it's "ok" to discuss this here, we can do so. Grant. . . . From mboudreau at press.uchicago.edu Wed Jan 28 21:41:57 2009 From: mboudreau at press.uchicago.edu (Michael R Boudreau) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:41:57 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where is the template for monthly password reminders? Message-ID: Where can I find the template for the monthly password reminder email? I'd like to modify it so that it doesn't contain the password (our members object to this being sent unbidden in plain text), and so that it reminds users to make sure their subscription address matches the address from which they currently send email (ideally with a link to their personal options page so they can update). -- Michael R. Boudreau Senior Publishing Technology Analyst The University of Chicago Press 1427 E. 60th Street Chicago, IL 60637 (773) 753-3298? ? fax: (773) 753-3383 From listadmin at none.org.uk Wed Jan 28 23:31:22 2009 From: listadmin at none.org.uk (James Kemp) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 22:31:22 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Linux Preferred? In-Reply-To: <497ECE34.1AD2.00BD.0@ccs135.com> References: <497ECE34.1AD2.00BD.0@ccs135.com> Message-ID: Someone known as Tim Ferguson scribed the following at 09:07:02 on Tue, 27 Jan 2009, allegedly: >Is there a preferred flavor of Linux that Mailman seems to work and >install the best with? I'm trying Ubuntu, but the apt-get feature is >getting hung up on trying to find the repositories and can't, so, until >I get that fixed I just thought I'd ask. I've got mine on Ubuntu (8.10, with postfix & apache). All from use of apt-get. One thing I have noticed, shortly after upgrading to 8.10, was that my repositories stopped working properly and I needed to replace the contents of the file. If that's the case for you ubuntuforums will sort you out with all the info required. -- James Kemp see Alexander at http://www.ajkemp.org/gallery/ or my games at http://www.full-moon.info/ From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 29 00:59:09 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:59:09 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where is the template for monthly passwordreminders? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Michael R Boudreau wrote: >Where can I find the template for the monthly password reminder email? See the FAQ at . The template name is cronpass.txt >I'd like to modify it so that it doesn't contain the password (our members >object to this being sent unbidden in plain text), and so that it reminds >users to make sure their subscription address matches the address from which >they currently send email (ideally with a link to their personal options >page so they can update). You can add the reminder, but you can't remove the passwords by modifying the template because the lists/passwords are added following the text built from the template. To remove the passwords, you'd need to modify the code in Mailman's cron/mailpasswds script. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From stephen at xemacs.org Thu Jan 29 01:27:42 2009 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:27:42 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email Forwarding Service In-Reply-To: <4980C35C.2030606@riverviewtech.net> References: <4980C35C.2030606@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <87eiyndkht.fsf@xemacs.org> Grant Taylor writes: > On 01/28/09 10:31, Jeff Bernier wrote: > > Does anyone know what would be a good solution for an email > > forwarding service? > I'm not sure that the Mailman Users mailing list is the best place to > discuss this. It's not. Since deploying in-house is mentioned as an option, you could just use the forwarding options of $MTA_DEVIL_YOU_KNOW, supported by some scripting and/or suid voodoo as necessary. I would suggest the support channels of $MTA_DEVIL_YOU_KNOW as a better place to ask. They would also be the likely place where people who build such applications (if there any exist, I don't know) would gather to request features, bug fixes, and general advice. AFAIK Python has no "MTA management" modules, although you might try the Cheeseshop (PyPI or whatever it's called nowadays) if implementation language is what led you to Mailman. From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Thu Jan 29 04:34:54 2009 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:34:54 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Linux Preferred? In-Reply-To: <497ECE34.1AD2.00BD.0@ccs135.com> References: <497ECE34.1AD2.00BD.0@ccs135.com> Message-ID: <1233200094.6681.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 09:07 -0600, Tim Ferguson wrote: > Is there a preferred flavor of Linux that Mailman seems to work and > install the best with? I'm trying Ubuntu, but the apt-get feature is > getting hung up on trying to find the repositories and can't, so, > until I get that fixed I just thought I'd ask. I'm running Mailman on two servers which are running Gentoo Linux, and everything works just fine. Basically, any distribution worth its salt should be OK. Almost by definition a "Linux distribution" is (among other things) an open source support network. Any package or build which becomes part of the official distribution is, by virtue of its inclusion in the distribution, configured to 'just work'. If it doesn't work, you, or someone, has already, or will soon file a bug against the package and the maintainer of the package will fix it. That's the way these things work. The requirements for running Mailman aren't particularly strenuous - Python, a few libraries, a standard Linux FSH, and perhaps one or two other pretty standard things. Any dependencies should be handled by the distribution's package management system, which is SOP for all Linux distributions. -- Lindsay Haisley | "In an open world, | PGP public key FMP Computer Services | who needs Windows | available at 512-259-1190 | or Gates" | http://pubkeys.fmp.com http://www.fmp.com | | From ephraim at cse.huji.ac.il Wed Jan 28 15:25:09 2009 From: ephraim at cse.huji.ac.il (Ephraim Silverberg) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:25:09 +0200 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] ValueError: unsupported format character [Hebrew Options Page] Message-ID: We allow our Mailman users to choose between English and Hebrew. When one of our users tried to access the "options" page of the list, he received: Bug in Mailman version 2.1.11 We're sorry, we hit a bug! Looking in the logs I found that the ``bottom line'' was the error: ValueError: unsupported format character '\xd7' (0xffffffd7) at index 139 Full log attached. Any ideas? Thanks, Ephraim ___________________________________________________________________________ Ephraim Silverberg, CSE System Group, Phone number: 972-2-6585521 Hebrew University, Jerusalem, Israel. Fax number: 972-2-5617723 WWW: http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~ephraim E-mail: ephraim at cse.huji.ac.il -------------- next part -------------- Jan 28 15:31:08 2009 admin(7066): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ admin(7066): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.11 -----] admin(7066): [----- Traceback ------] admin(7066): Traceback (most recent call last): admin(7066): File "/cs/share/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main admin(7066): main() admin(7066): File "/cs/share/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/options.py", line 255, in main admin(7066): loginpage(mlist, doc, user, language) admin(7066): File "/cs/share/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/options.py", line 886, in loginpage admin(7066): """)]) admin(7066): File "/cs/share/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py", line 90, in _ admin(7066): return tns % dict admin(7066): ValueError: unsupported format character '?' (0xffffffd7) at index 139 admin(7066): [----- Python Information -----] admin(7066): sys.version = 2.5.1 (r251:54863, Dec 21 2007, 11:25:20) [GCC 4.2.1 20070719 [FreeBSD]] admin(7066): sys.executable = /usr/local/bin/python admin(7066): sys.prefix = /usr/local admin(7066): sys.exec_prefix = /usr/local admin(7066): sys.path = /usr/local admin(7066): sys.platform = freebsd7 admin(7066): [----- Environment Variables -----] admin(7066): HTTP_REFERER: http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il admin(7066): SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.2.8 (FreeBSD) mod_ssl/2.2.8 OpenSSL/0.9.8e DAV/2 PHP/5.2.6 with Suhosin-Patch SVN/1.4.6 mod_perl/2.0.3 Perl/v5.8.8 admin(7066): SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/options admin(7066): SERVER_SIGNATURE: admin(7066): REQUEST_METHOD: POST admin(7066): HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE: 300 admin(7066): SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 admin(7066): QUERY_STRING: admin(7066): CONTENT_LENGTH: 172 admin(7066): HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET: windows-1255,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7 admin(7066): HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; he-IL; rv:1.9.0.4) Gecko/2008112309 Iceweasel/3.0.4 (Debian-3.0.4-1) admin(7066): HTTP_CONNECTION: keep-alive admin(7066): SERVER_NAME: mailman.cs.huji.ac.il admin(7066): REMOTE_ADDR: 62.90.10.53 admin(7066): PATH_TRANSLATED: /linux-il admin(7066): SERVER_PORT: 80 admin(7066): SERVER_ADDR: 132.65.16.113 admin(7066): DOCUMENT_ROOT: / admin(7066): PYTHONPATH: /cs/share/mailman admin(7066): SCRIPT_FILENAME: /cs/share/mailman/cgi-bin/options admin(7066): SERVER_ADMIN: webmaster at cs.huji.ac.il admin(7066): HTTP_HOST: mailman.cs.huji.ac.il admin(7066): REQUEST_URI: /mailman/options/linux-il admin(7066): HTTP_ACCEPT: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8 admin(7066): GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1 admin(7066): REMOTE_PORT: 34189 admin(7066): HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: he,en-US;q=0.7,en;q=0.3 admin(7066): CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded admin(7066): HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip,deflate admin(7066): UNIQUE_ID: @-cfw4RBEFMAABuKpeMAAAAQ admin(7066): PATH_INFO: /linux-il Jan 28 15:32:18 2009 admin(7244): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ admin(7244): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.11 -----] admin(7244): [----- Traceback ------] admin(7244): Traceback (most recent call last): admin(7244): File "/cs/share/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main admin(7244): main() admin(7244): File "/cs/share/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/options.py", line 255, in main admin(7244): loginpage(mlist, doc, user, language) admin(7244): File "/cs/share/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/options.py", line 886, in loginpage admin(7244): """)]) admin(7244): File "/cs/share/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py", line 90, in _ admin(7244): return tns % dict admin(7244): ValueError: unsupported format character '?' (0xffffffd7) at index 139 admin(7244): [----- Python Information -----] admin(7244): sys.version = 2.5.1 (r251:54863, Dec 21 2007, 11:25:20) [GCC 4.2.1 20070719 [FreeBSD]] admin(7244): sys.executable = /usr/local/bin/python admin(7244): sys.prefix = /usr/local admin(7244): sys.exec_prefix = /usr/local admin(7244): sys.path = /usr/local admin(7244): sys.platform = freebsd7 admin(7244): [----- Environment Variables -----] admin(7244): HTTP_REFERER: http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/options/linux-il admin(7244): SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.2.8 (FreeBSD) mod_ssl/2.2.8 OpenSSL/0.9.8e DAV/2 PHP/5.2.6 with Suhosin-Patch SVN/1.4.6 mod_perl/2.0.3 Perl/v5.8.8 admin(7244): SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/options admin(7244): SERVER_SIGNATURE: admin(7244): REQUEST_METHOD: POST admin(7244): HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE: 300 admin(7244): SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 admin(7244): QUERY_STRING: admin(7244): CONTENT_LENGTH: 75 admin(7244): HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET: windows-1255,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7 admin(7244): HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; he-IL; rv:1.9.0.4) Gecko/2008112309 Iceweasel/3.0.4 (Debian-3.0.4-1) admin(7244): HTTP_CONNECTION: keep-alive admin(7244): SERVER_NAME: mailman.cs.huji.ac.il admin(7244): REMOTE_ADDR: 62.90.10.53 admin(7244): PATH_TRANSLATED: /linux-il admin(7244): SERVER_PORT: 80 admin(7244): SERVER_ADDR: 132.65.16.113 admin(7244): DOCUMENT_ROOT: / admin(7244): PYTHONPATH: /cs/share/mailman admin(7244): SCRIPT_FILENAME: /cs/share/mailman/cgi-bin/options admin(7244): SERVER_ADMIN: webmaster at cs.huji.ac.il admin(7244): HTTP_HOST: mailman.cs.huji.ac.il admin(7244): REQUEST_URI: /mailman/options/linux-il admin(7244): HTTP_ACCEPT: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8 admin(7244): GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1 admin(7244): REMOTE_PORT: 34006 admin(7244): HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: he,en-US;q=0.7,en;q=0.3 admin(7244): CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded admin(7244): HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip,deflate admin(7244): UNIQUE_ID: ACc43YRBEFMAABwR3bIAAAAF admin(7244): PATH_INFO: /linux-il From gerdmoritz at googlemail.com Thu Jan 29 02:54:41 2009 From: gerdmoritz at googlemail.com (Gerd Moritz) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 02:54:41 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman with postfix and virtual mailbox domains In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have found kind of a solution which is not very elegant but gets the job done. I now use "transport_maps" in postfix with regular expressions like /^(mylist|mylist-.*)@mydomain\.net$/ mailman: In mm_cfg.py for now I set "MTA=None" but maybe I can edit /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py so that it will update my "virtual-mailbox-maps". Right now I manually edit "virtual-mailbox-maps" with regexp like /^(mylist|mylist-.*)@mydomain\.net$/ 1 so that my SMTP accepts mails to my lists. From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 29 16:32:13 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 07:32:13 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] ValueError: unsupported format character [HebrewOptions Page] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ephraim Silverberg wrote: > >Looking in the logs I found that the ``bottom line'' was the error: > > ValueError: unsupported format character '\xd7' (0xffffffd7) at index 139 > >Full log attached. There is an error in the Hebrew message catalog. The attached patch will at least fix the error. To apply the patch in an installed Mailman, you can apply it to the installed messages/he/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po file. Then you must rebuild the binary messages/he/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo file which you can do with either Mailman's bin/msgfmt.py or the OS msgfmt command if you have it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: Hebrew.patch.txt URL: From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 29 17:20:29 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 08:20:29 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] config.pck get changed back from correct values... In-Reply-To: <132327.49555.qm@web46010.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: john espiro wrote: > >so... >1.) How do I tell if the CGI wrappers are SETID? bin/check_perms should check this, but the following [mark at sbh16 ~]$ ls -l ~mailman/cgi-bin/ total 208 -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 15989 Jan 11 11:16 admin -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 15993 Jan 11 11:16 admindb -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 15993 Jan 11 11:16 confirm -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 15993 Jan 11 11:16 create -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 15997 Jan 11 11:16 edithtml -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 15989 Jan 11 11:16 htdig -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 15997 Jan 11 11:16 listinfo -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 15997 Jan 11 11:16 mmsearch -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 15993 Jan 11 11:16 options -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 15993 Jan 11 11:16 private -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 15993 Jan 11 11:16 rmlist -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 15993 Jan 11 11:16 roster -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 15997 Jan 11 11:16 subscribe [mark at sbh16 ~]$ shows the SETGID bit as the 's' in -rwxr-sr-x >To get everything to work properly, the files need to be set as webadmin:mailman. Which should not be necessary. owner shouldn't matter. Only group matters in a properly configured Mailman installation. >or, how do I tell #2 (webserver/OS not honoring SETGID)? If the files in cgi-bin have permissions as above, and the subdirectories of lists/ have group and permissions like [mark at sbh16 ~]$ ls -l lists/ total 28 drwxrwsr-x 3 root mailman 4096 Jan 29 03:30 century-announce drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 Jan 29 03:30 gpc-century drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 Jan 29 03:30 gpc-talk drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 Jan 29 03:30 gpc-test drwxrwsr-x 2 apache mailman 4096 Jan 29 03:30 gpc-website drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 Jan 29 08:00 mailman drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 Jan 29 03:30 wed_ride [mark at sbh16 ~]$ then the web interface should work. >I am running APache, if that helps. Are you running Apache with suEXEC? If so, you will probably have issues because the suEXEC security strategy is in conflict with Mailman's security strategy. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Jan at Bytesmiths.com Thu Jan 29 18:33:12 2009 From: Jan at Bytesmiths.com (Jan Steinman) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:33:12 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List-to-list email? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry if this is a FAQ -- I have done a bit of searching first. How can I allow one list to send mail to another list? I have the sending list mentioned as a non-list authorized sender to the receiving list, but it always queues it up for admin approval. :::: "We need a revolution." :::: "Keep saying that, and we'll need a lawyer, assuming they let us have one." :::: Jan Steinman http://www.VeggieVanGogh.com From jbernier at risd.edu Thu Jan 29 18:38:36 2009 From: jbernier at risd.edu (Jeff Bernier) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:38:36 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Version Message-ID: I have inherited a Mailman list manager system, and I am currently trying to establish a regular backup for this system, as well as move a couple of lists over to it from an older system which is being retired. This new system is a Mac OS X Server running 10.5.4, Mailman 2.1.9, and Python 2.5.1. I am a newbie to Mailman and have a few questions: What version of Mailman is recommended ? Am I good with 2.1.9? Are there any issues with moving lists from 2.1.5 running on a G4? Thanks a bunch, Jeff Jeff Bernier Rhode Island School of Design 401.454.6168 From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 29 18:58:31 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:58:31 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Version In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jeff Bernier wrote: >I have inherited a Mailman list manager system, and I am currently trying to establish a regular backup for this system, as well as move a couple of lists over to it from an older system which is being retired. This new system is a Mac OS X Server running 10.5.4, Mailman 2.1.9, and Python 2.5.1. > >I am a newbie to Mailman and have a few questions: > >What version of Mailman is recommended ? Am I good with 2.1.9? There are a number of enhancements and bug fixes in later releases. See and decide for yourself. >Are there any issues with moving lists from 2.1.5 running on a G4? There shouldn't be. See the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jan 29 19:07:53 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:07:53 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List-to-list email? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jan Steinman wrote: >Sorry if this is a FAQ -- I have done a bit of searching first. > >How can I allow one list to send mail to another list? I have the >sending list mentioned as a non-list authorized sender to the >receiving list, but it always queues it up for admin approval. What address is the "non-list authorized sender". It needs to be the LISTNAME-bounces or possibly the VERPd LISTNAME-bounces address, and even this will only work if USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = Yes in mm_cfg.py. Otherwise, you have to make the address a member (with delivery and password reminders disabled). If the message is being held on the receiving list for "implicit destination" you have to add the address of the sending list to acceptable_aliases of the receiving list. If the above doesn't explain it, what is the reason the message is held? Search the FAQ at for "umbrella". -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Thu Jan 29 19:08:06 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:08:06 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List-to-list email? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4981F086.2090703@riverviewtech.net> On 01/29/09 11:33, Jan Steinman wrote: > How can I allow one list to send mail to another list? I have the > sending list mentioned as a non-list authorized sender to the receiving > list, but it always queues it up for admin approval. What happens if you add the sending list as a subscriber to the receiving list. You will likely want to disable delivery to the sending list as a subscriber of the receiving list. Have you looked in to umbrella lists? Depending on what you are doing, this may be applicable here too. Grant. . . . From arogozin at comcast.net Fri Jan 30 02:04:49 2009 From: arogozin at comcast.net (Alex) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:04:49 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Linux Preferred? References: <497ECE34.1AD2.00BD.0@ccs135.com> Message-ID: <73052A8CD65D4E48845CC6B87A1BC0DE@fester> I had an excellent experience in installing Centos 5.2 yum provided rpm of mailman, took me a while to figure out that i had to turn off selinux for archiving to work properly thou. Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Ferguson" To: "Mail Users" Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 10:07 AM Subject: [Mailman-Users] Linux Preferred? > Is there a preferred flavor of Linux that Mailman seems to work and > install the best with? I'm trying Ubuntu, but the apt-get feature is > getting hung up on trying to find the repositories and can't, so, until I > get that fixed I just thought I'd ask. > > Thanks for any ideas and suggestions, > > Tim > > > > Tim Ferguson > Director of Technology > Centralia City Schools > Centralia, Illinois 62801 > 618-532-1907, Ext. 1030 > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list > Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/arogozin%40comcast.net > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 From jbernier at risd.edu Fri Jan 30 16:59:06 2009 From: jbernier at risd.edu (Jeff Bernier) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:59:06 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving a List Message-ID: I am retiring an older system running Mailman, and I would like to move one of its lists to our shiny new server. I have seen instructions posted for moving all lists from one system to another, but I want to move just one list to the new server already running other lists. Can someone tell me how this is done? I have no real experience working with Mailman... so go easy on me. I am running mailman 2.1.9 on a Mac X Server v10.5.4. Thank you for any help you can offer. -Jeff From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Fri Jan 30 17:14:46 2009 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:14:46 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving a List In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090130161445.GB1959@amyl.org.uk> On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 10:59:06AM -0500, Jeff Bernier wrote: > I am retiring an older system running Mailman, and I would like to > move one of its lists to our shiny new server. I have seen > instructions posted for moving all lists from one system to another, > but I want to move just one list to the new server already running > other lists. > > Can someone tell me how this is done? I have no real experience > working with Mailman... so go easy on me. There's a FAQ entry or two on this, but the short of it is to copy the data from $OLD_SERVER to $NEW_SERVER, and then fix-up. I've not noticed anything too odd between slight versions, although it's something to look out for. For copying, I tend to use rsync. As for fix-up, fix_url and sorting out archives (if applicable) should be done. Perhaps also redirects (http & email) on $OLD_SERVER to $NEW_SERVER. -- ``Any person who knowingly causes a nuclear weapon test explosion or any other nuclear explosion is guilty of an offence....'' (Nuclear Explosions Act, 1998) From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 30 17:47:40 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 08:47:40 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving a List In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jeff Bernier wrote: >I am retiring an older system running Mailman, and I would like to move one of its lists to our shiny new server. I have seen instructions posted for moving all lists from one system to another, but I want to move just one list to the new server already running other lists. > >Can someone tell me how this is done? I have no real experience working with Mailman... so go easy on me. To move a Mailman 2.1.x list from ones server to another running the same or later Mailman, move the lists/LISTNAME/config.pck file to the new server. Create the lists/LISTNAME/ directory with the same ownership and permissions as the other lists/* directories. Run bin/withlist -l -r fix_url LISTNAME to fix the host_name and web_page_url of the list for the new server. Move the archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file from the old server. Create the archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/ directory with the same ownership and permissions as the other archives/private/*.mbox/ directories. Run bin/.arch --wipe LISTNAME to build the pipermail archive. This assumes you have no held messages or pending requests for the list on the old server. If you do have these, it is best to deal with them on the old server before moving. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From jbernier at risd.edu Fri Jan 30 17:52:26 2009 From: jbernier at risd.edu (Jeff Bernier) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:52:26 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving a List Message-ID: Thanks for the reply Adam. I have seen those FAQs, and they instruct on moving ALL lists. I have just one list to move. I am able to go into the mailman/lists and mailman/archives directories and pull out just the objects belonging to the list I want to move... but when I look in the mailman/data directory, I cannot identify any files or directories relating to my ONE list. I am concerned that if I copy the entire contents of mailman/data to the new server, I will break something. Part of my problem is my lack of working knowledge with Mailman. Any additional advice or instructions is greatly appreciated. -Jeff >>> On 1/30/2009 at 11:14 AM, Adam McGreggor wrote: On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 10:59:06AM -0500, Jeff Bernier wrote: > I am retiring an older system running Mailman, and I would like to > move one of its lists to our shiny new server. I have seen > instructions posted for moving all lists from one system to another, > but I want to move just one list to the new server already running > other lists. > > Can someone tell me how this is done? I have no real experience > working with Mailman... so go easy on me. There's a FAQ entry or two on this, but the short of it is to copy the data from $OLD_SERVER to $NEW_SERVER, and then fix-up. I've not noticed anything too odd between slight versions, although it's something to look out for. For copying, I tend to use rsync. As for fix-up, fix_url and sorting out archives (if applicable) should be done. Perhaps also redirects (http & email) on $OLD_SERVER to $NEW_SERVER. -- ``Any person who knowingly causes a nuclear weapon test explosion or any other nuclear explosion is guilty of an offence....'' (Nuclear Explosions Act, 1998) From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 30 18:07:41 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:07:41 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving a List In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jeff Bernier wrote: >... but when I look in the mailman/data directory, I cannot identify any files or directories relating to my ONE list. I am concerned that if I copy the entire contents of mailman/data to the new server, I will break something. Don't copy anything from mailman/data. The only things there that might be relevant to your list are held messages (heldmsg-listname-nn.pck files) which are best to deal with before moving, and maybe aliases if you have Postfix integration. I forgot to mention aliases in my prior reply, but depending on the MTA on the new server, you may need to create aliases for the new list. If you have Postfix integration, just run 'bin/genaliases' after moving the list. If your aliases are manual, you'll have to manually add aliases for the moved list. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Fri Jan 30 20:11:20 2009 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 13:11:20 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving a List In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1233342680.2290.12.camel@vishnu.fmp.com> On Fri, 2009-01-30 at 11:52 -0500, Jeff Bernier wrote: > I have seen those FAQs, and they instruct on moving ALL lists. I have > just one list to move. I am able to go into the mailman/lists and > mailman/archives directories and pull out just the objects belonging > to the list I want to move... but when I look in the mailman/data > directory, I cannot identify any files or directories relating to my > ONE list. I am concerned that if I copy the entire contents of > mailman/data to the new server, I will break something. Here are the scripts I use. DON'T use these as-is, just read code to understand the procedure. This script gets run on as root on the box from which the list is being moved: #!/bin/sh if [ "$1" = "" ]; then echo 'Usage: tar_list.sh ' exit fi if [ ! -e /var/lib/mailman/lists/$1 ]; then echo "$1: No such list!" exit fi mkdir /tmp/$1 cd /var/lib/mailman/lists/ echo Creating $1_list.tar.gz .... tar -czvf $1_list.tar.gz $1 mv $1_list.tar.gz /tmp/$1 cd /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/ echo Creating $1_archive.tar.gz .... tar -czvf $1_archive.tar.gz $1 mv $1_archive.tar.gz /tmp/$1 echo Creating $1_archive_mbox.tar.gz .... tar -czvf $1_archive_mbox.tar.gz $1.mbox mv $1_archive_mbox.tar.gz /tmp/$1 if [ -L /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/$1 ]; then touch /tmp/$1/$1_archive_is_public fi ----------------------- This script gets run as user mailman on the receiving box: #!/bin/sh if [ "$1" = "" ]; then echo 'Usage: untar_list.sh ' exit fi cd ~/tmp/ echo "Give root password on remote system ..." scp root at shanti-vpn.fmp.com:/tmp/$1/* . cd /var/lib/mailman/lists/ echo "" echo "Creating list $1 ..." tar -xzvpf ~/tmp/$1_list.tar.gz cd /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/ echo "" echo "Creating archive for $1 ..." tar -xzvpf ~/tmp/$1_archive.tar.gz echo "Creating archive mbox for $1 ..." tar -xzvpf ~/tmp/$1_archive_mbox.tar.gz if [ -e ~/tmp/$1_archive_is_public ]; then ln -s /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/$1 /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/$1 fi echo"" echo "If no errors, delete files in ~/tmp and delete /tmp/$1 directory on remote system" --------------------------- If you're using an older version of mailman on either system which puts things under /usr/local/mailman then you'll need to make allowances for this in the paths. Note that the tarball containing the list to be moved contains a zero-length file, _archive_is_public which is just a flag file to direct the script on the receiving side to create the appropriate symlink for public archives. These scripts work fine for me, and I've used them successfully, with minor variations, on two different major moves. -- Lindsay Haisley | "The difference between | PGP public key FMP Computer Services | a duck is that one leg | available at 512-259-1190 | is both the same" | http://pubkeys.fmp.com http://www.fmp.com | - Anonymous | From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Fri Jan 30 20:31:52 2009 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 13:31:52 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and the Courier MTA Message-ID: <1233343912.2290.27.camel@vishnu.fmp.com> Over the past few years I've several times submitted courier-to-mailman.py to various Mailman forums in the hopes that it might be helpful enough to make it into the contrib section of the Mailman source tree. This is basically a modification and update of the qmail-to-mailman.py script (which is perhaps now obsolete since qmail, as an MTA, is largely abandoned and unsupported these days), and provides list-independent support for interfacing the Courier MTA with mailman lists. I don't know whether this contribution has been seen and rejected, or gone unnoticed, or if Courier is considered to be such a minority MTA that it's not worth considering, or what. I run Courier on both of FMP's mail servers, along with Mailman, and this script works very nicely on both of them. If the Mailman devs have seen this and decided not to include it I'll forget about it, or offer it only to the Courier user community. Once again, though, if it would be useful and possibly worth distributing with Mailman, I'll re-submit it if someone will tell me where to post it. -- Lindsay Haisley | "Everything works | Accredited FMP Computer Services | if you let it" | by the 512-259-1190 | (The Roadie) | Austin Better http://www.fmp.com | | Business Bureau From brad at shub-internet.org Fri Jan 30 20:35:40 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 13:35:40 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and the Courier MTA In-Reply-To: <1233343912.2290.27.camel@vishnu.fmp.com> References: <1233343912.2290.27.camel@vishnu.fmp.com> Message-ID: <4983568C.9000706@shub-internet.org> Lindsay Haisley wrote: > I don't know whether this contribution has been seen and rejected, or > gone unnoticed, or if Courier is considered to be such a minority MTA > that it's not worth considering, or what. Sorry, I think I'm the one who dropped the ball on that. ;-( > I run Courier on both of FMP's mail servers, along with Mailman, and > this script works very nicely on both of them. If the Mailman devs have > seen this and decided not to include it I'll forget about it, or offer > it only to the Courier user community. Once again, though, if it would > be useful and possibly worth distributing with Mailman, I'll re-submit > it if someone will tell me where to post it. I think it would be a valuable contribution, and now that we've mostly switched away from sourceforge, the correct place to post that is on launchpad at . Mark would be the one to take it from there and put it into the contrib/ directory. -- Brad Knowles If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks From ali-savas at gmx.de Fri Jan 30 10:03:39 2009 From: ali-savas at gmx.de (Ali Savas) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:03:39 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Introduction and Question Message-ID: Hello, my name is Ali and I am 23 Years old. I am totly blind since my birth. I'm a trainee as a specialist for application development in Marburg, Germany. I want to configure Mailman on my virtual server. I have installed Mailman on Debian 4.0 etch. I configured Mailman too, but Mailman can send E-Mails and I not. Is there a step by step documentation for installing and configuring Mailman in German? Thanks. Ali From john_espiro at yahoo.com Thu Jan 29 11:46:17 2009 From: john_espiro at yahoo.com (john espiro) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 02:46:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] config.pck get changed back from correct values... Message-ID: <771679.83586.qm@web46008.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi Mark - My apologies for the direct reply. I didn't see that Yahoo stripped out the correct reply to address. Thanks for this: There is something wrong in your installation. Either the CGI wrappers (the files in Mailman's cgi-bin directory) are not group mailman and SETGID, or your web server/OS is not honoring the SETGID bit and setting the effective group of the CGI process to mailman. so... 1.) How do I tell if the CGI wrappers are SETID? To get everything to work properly, the files need to be set as webadmin:mailman. or, how do I tell #2 (webserver/OS not honoring SETGID)? I am running APache, if that helps. Thanks... From john_espiro at yahoo.com Fri Jan 30 07:42:31 2009 From: john_espiro at yahoo.com (john espiro) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:42:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] config.pck get changed back from correct values... References: Message-ID: <116231.61143.qm@web46005.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> OK - cgi-bin folder has the SETGID bit set correctly. The only thign I need to do to make it work, is to set the config.pck file to webadmin:mailman, otherwise I get the following in the error log: admin(17440): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/lists/MYLIST/config.pck' BUT Apache is running with suexec. Is there a way to get mailman to work with Apache suexec? John ________________________________ Which should not be necessary. owner shouldn't matter. Only group matters in a properly configured Mailman installation. If the files in cgi-bin have permissions as above, and the subdirectories of lists/ have group and permissions like [mark at sbh16 ~]$ ls -l lists/ total 28 drwxrwsr-x 3 root mailman 4096 Jan 29 03:30 century-announce drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 Jan 29 03:30 gpc-century then the web interface should work. >I am running APache, if that helps. Are you running Apache with suEXEC? If so, you will probably have issues because the suEXEC security strategy is in conflict with Mailman's security strategy. From pmoss4 at csc.com Fri Jan 30 15:46:53 2009 From: pmoss4 at csc.com (Patricia A Moss) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:46:53 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Domainname changing Message-ID: I am running mailman 2.1.5 on a RedHat Linux, version 4.0, server. The IP Address and domainname, of the server, are going to change and I wanted to know is there was a script or set of instructions for making similar changes within mailman. I see that the archives will be affected by the domainname. I am not sure as to what else may be affected and how to avoid a problem. I found this article "3.4. How do I move a list to a different server/Mailman installation." in the FAQ. It seems like it pertains to my situation, but I wanted to make sure that I didn't miss anything else. Thanks. PATI MOSS System Engineer Sr. Professional CSC This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. From Tlf1 at ccs135.com Thu Jan 29 18:17:43 2009 From: Tlf1 at ccs135.com (Tim Ferguson) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:17:43 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Re: Linux Preferred? Message-ID: <49819057020000BD0001405C@ccs135.com> I'm sorry, Hank, didn't mean to send it directly to you. And thank you for your help. Tim >>> On 1/29/2009 at 10:49 AM, Hank van Cleef wrote: The esteemed Tim Ferguson has said: > > Hmmm, a couple of questions. Has anyone tried Mailman with SuSE Linux? = > We are a Novell shop here having added a couple of Windows Servers only in = > the last couple of years. And I run DansGuardian on an IPCop box to = > filter our Internet access as required. Used an E-Smith box first. =20 > > I downloaded the documentation from your web site, but as you say, with = > the Linux versions I've been trying it on, the configuration steps do not = > always work as I'd hoped, especially on SME, a version that a neighboring = > school district tech person got up and running and now delivers e-mails = > and text messages to parents that sign-up for the service. This is my = > goal. We prefer to let the parents sign-up on their own rather than = > making phone calls to everyone as several of the popular alerting packages = > do. Also, this leaves the burden on them to keep their information = > updated. And, but having a different list for each school, we can = > customize some of those messages since each school/age level has it's own = > needs.=20 > > Thanks,=20 > > Tim=20 > > > >>> On 1/28/2009 at 11:08 AM, Hank van Cleef = > wrote: > Hello Tim: You may not be aware of it, but your response was mailed to me, and not to the mailman-user's list. The questions you are asking are questions I shouldn't try to answer. My primary platforms are Sun Solaris, and I run a locally-modified version of Mailman. Setting the distro Mailman up on a Solaris system is fairly easy, but the intentions of the developers in the installation manual have to be interpreted for Solaris. I'm not at all familiar with details of any Linux implementation, so answers to your questions would have to come from the mail list. Hank From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 30 23:07:04 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 14:07:04 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] config.pck get changed back from correctvalues... In-Reply-To: <116231.61143.qm@web46005.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: john espiro wrote: >BUT Apache is running with suexec. > >Is there a way to get mailman to work with Apache suexec? Set the group to mailman in the Apache SuexecUserGroup directive. This may create group mismatch errors for the wrappers. See the FAQ at . If so, you'll have to deal with those in some other way than changing the Apache group. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 30 23:18:13 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 14:18:13 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Domainname changing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Patricia A Moss wrote: >I am running mailman 2.1.5 on a RedHat Linux, version 4.0, server. >The IP Address and domainname, of the server, are going to change and I >wanted to know is there was a script or set of instructions for making >similar changes within mailman. I see that the archives will be affected >by the domainname. I am not sure as to what else may be affected and how >to avoid a problem. > >I found this article "3.4. How do I move a list to a different >server/Mailman installation." in the FAQ. It seems like it pertains to my >situation, but I wanted to make sure that I didn't miss anything else. Actually, that FAQ is more about moving lists from one server to another. For changing domain names, "4.29. Where can I change a list or the default URL used for the web interface?" is more relevant. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jan 30 23:53:26 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 14:53:26 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and the Courier MTA In-Reply-To: <4983568C.9000706@shub-internet.org> Message-ID: Brad Knowles wrote: > >I think it would be a valuable contribution, and now that we've mostly >switched away from sourceforge, the correct place to post that is on >launchpad at . > >Mark would be the one to take it from there and put it into the contrib/ >directory. Brad is correct. If you post it in the bug tracker on launchpad or even just point me to a current version posted somewhere, I'll get it in contrib/ in the distribution. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Sat Jan 31 00:16:08 2009 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:16:08 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and the Courier MTA In-Reply-To: <4983568C.9000706@shub-internet.org> References: <1233343912.2290.27.camel@vishnu.fmp.com> <4983568C.9000706@shub-internet.org> Message-ID: <1233357368.2290.52.camel@vishnu.fmp.com> On Fri, 2009-01-30 at 13:35 -0600, Brad Knowles wrote: > Lindsay Haisley wrote: > > > I don't know whether this contribution has been seen and rejected, or > > gone unnoticed, or if Courier is considered to be such a minority MTA > > that it's not worth considering, or what. > > Sorry, I think I'm the one who dropped the ball on that. ;-( > > > I run Courier on both of FMP's mail servers, along with Mailman, and > > this script works very nicely on both of them. If the Mailman devs have > > seen this and decided not to include it I'll forget about it, or offer > > it only to the Courier user community. Once again, though, if it would > > be useful and possibly worth distributing with Mailman, I'll re-submit > > it if someone will tell me where to post it. > > I think it would be a valuable contribution, and now that we've mostly > switched away from sourceforge, the correct place to post that is on > launchpad at . > > Mark would be the one to take it from there and put it into the contrib/ > directory. I posted it on the launchpad site as a bug report with an attachment. This looked like probably the best way to submit it. Apologies, Mark, if there was some other way I was supposed to do it. -- Lindsay Haisley | "It is better to bite | PGP public key FMP Computer Services | a single cannibal than | available at 512-259-1190 | to curse the doggies" | http://pubkeys.fmp.com http://www.fmp.com | -- John Day | From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 31 00:30:31 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:30:31 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and the Courier MTA In-Reply-To: <1233357368.2290.52.camel@vishnu.fmp.com> Message-ID: Lindsay Haisley wrote: > >I posted it on the launchpad site as a bug report with an attachment. >This looked like probably the best way to submit it. Apologies, Mark, >if there was some other way I was supposed to do it. That's perfect. Thanks. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Sat Jan 31 00:42:31 2009 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:42:31 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and the Courier MTA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1233358951.2290.55.camel@vishnu.fmp.com> On Fri, 2009-01-30 at 15:30 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Lindsay Haisley wrote: > > > >I posted it on the launchpad site as a bug report with an attachment. > >This looked like probably the best way to submit it. Apologies, Mark, > >if there was some other way I was supposed to do it. > > > That's perfect. Thanks. I'm also on the courier-users list and I'll let them know that it'll be coming soon. -- Lindsay Haisley | "The difference between | PGP public key FMP Computer Services | a duck is that one leg | available at 512-259-1190 | is both the same" | http://pubkeys.fmp.com http://www.fmp.com | - Anonymous | From vish.vishvanath at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 01:48:57 2009 From: vish.vishvanath at gmail.com (Vish Vishvanath) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 00:48:57 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom key/values in auto-responses Message-ID: <34D89BEB-4459-43B0-974F-91EB3A928F19@gmail.com> Hi all, Running my second install of Mailman, going well, v 2.1.11 on BSD 7.0, and wondering how to add custom key into welcome messages. Essentially, I need to add a download link into the welcome emailer, but it needs to have the email of the recipient inserted into it - it's a one-time expiring download thank you (of my photographs, actually.) Seems non-trivial - anyone else ever tried to do this? Best Vish, London, UK -- From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 31 16:56:12 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 07:56:12 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom key/values in auto-responses In-Reply-To: <34D89BEB-4459-43B0-974F-91EB3A928F19@gmail.com> Message-ID: Vish Vishvanath wrote: > >Running my second install of Mailman, going well, v 2.1.11 on BSD 7.0, >and wondering how to add custom key into welcome messages. >Essentially, I need to add a download link into the welcome emailer, >but it needs to have the email of the recipient inserted into it - >it's a one-time expiring download thank you (of my photographs, >actually.) The welcome message is built from the subscribeack.txt template which can be edited via the web admin "Edit the public HTML pages and text files" link or according to the information in the FAQ at . Normally, the only replacements available for a template without modifying the code that uses it are the ones used in the base template, but in this case, there is an additional %(user)s replacement available which will receive the user's email address. If you actually wanted to add a custom key/value for this template, you'd have to modify the code in the definition of the SendSubscribeAck() method in Mailman/Deliverer.py. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jan 31 19:29:55 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 10:29:55 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Introduction and Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ali Savas wrote: > >I want to configure Mailman on my virtual server. I have installed Mailman >on Debian 4.0 etch. I configured Mailman too, but Mailman can send E-Mails >and I not. Is there a step by step documentation for installing and >configuring Mailman in German? Thanks. I'm not aware of any German language installation documentation. If I understand you correctly, Mailman is sending things like subscription confirmations and other notices, but attempts to post or otherwise send mail to Mailman fail. If this is the case, there is some issue with your MTA setup or possibly DNS. Have you installed aliases for your Mailman lists? Is there an A record and/or an MX record pointing to an A record in DNS for your server name? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From jason at dixongroup.net Sat Jan 31 23:59:27 2009 From: jason at dixongroup.net (Jason Dixon) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 17:59:27 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman url points to localhost after ProxyPass Message-ID: <20090131225927.GJ4966@dixongroup.net> To help Mailman work within the default OpenBSD httpd chroot, I have requests for /mailman/ doing a ProxyPass to apache2 running on localhost. This works great for everything except url's like /admin/ and /listinfo/. Everything below this works fine (e.g. /admin/foo). So if I load http://www.dixongroup.net/mailman/admin/, it gives me results for lists on 127.0.0.1 instead of the hostname. But all of the lists themselves work fine. And list_lists reports everything correctly as you'd expect. Has anyone overcome this? Obviously, the desired effect would be that Mailman uses HTTP_HOST. I've messed around with UseCanonicalName on both Apache instances but could not get the desired effect. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks, -- Jason Dixon DixonGroup Consulting http://www.dixongroup.net/ From Tlf1 at ccs135.com Sat Jan 31 21:30:01 2009 From: Tlf1 at ccs135.com (Tim Ferguson) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 14:30:01 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Authorization problem Message-ID: <49846069020000BD00014120@ccs135.com> I've just set up our first Mailman and when trying to create a new mailing list, other than the initial list, I'm receiving the message: Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists I'm stumped as the only password I've entered so far is the site administrator's password. Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tim