From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de Mon Jun 1 00:37:16 2009 From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 00:37:16 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors on mailman startup In-Reply-To: <68779e050905291413s6b8d8ba2p3d81993a86320ef9@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A20487F.3040707@zuka.net> <68779e050905291413s6b8d8ba2p3d81993a86320ef9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090531223716.GL8827@charite.de> * Malveeka Tewari : > I installed mailman on localhost using the following instructions on > http://systers.org/systers-soc/doku.php/step_by_step_system_installation_-_production > > But on starting mailman I get an error: > Site-list is missing: mailman-admin > > Can anyone help me here? Create the required list mailman-admin -- Ralf Hildebrandt Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12200 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jun 1 00:46:12 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 15:46:12 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman administraive interface does not store data In-Reply-To: <200905311851.03760.eggert.ehmke@ftv-spandau.de> Message-ID: Eggert Ehmke (FTV) wrote: > >I already run a Mailman list on my server that works fine. Now I set up a >second list on another virtual domain. All looks fine, aliases and >virtual-mailman are configured, the apache is configured. I can access the >list administration but cannot change the general options. When I enter data >in the general options and press Submit, the old options are displayed again. >What makes things bad, I don't see any related error messages, also not in >apache log files. How to track this down? See the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jun 1 00:48:23 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 15:48:23 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding already existing mail lists to/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases In-Reply-To: <4A21E2CA.6060004@enabled.com> Message-ID: Noah Garrett Wallach wrote: > >okay there is a warning to not manually edit the >/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases file. how do I add already existing mail >lists that I am migrating from another server to an existing >/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases file? Run Mailman's bin/genaliases (shall I repeat that 3 times?) -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jun 1 00:53:16 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 15:53:16 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman does not respond to my email. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Cory Walker wrote: > >I've been having trouble with my main email (this is not it). Whenever I try >to post a message to a mailman mailing list with it, nothing happens. I >can't confirm subscriptions or post. Obviously, this email works fine with >any mailman server. With my main email, I've tried multiple clients >(evolution, thunderbird). None of them work. This has only happened since a >few months ago. I know this problem isn't unique to a certain list, because >it happens on this mailing list and all of my other projects. I have even >tried using Comcast's web interface, so I know it is not the way I've set my >client up. You seem to have eliminated every variable except the address itself. It might help us to help you if you told us what that is (or at least the local part). -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jun 1 00:57:10 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 15:57:10 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman does not respond to my email. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark Sapiro wrote: >Cory Walker wrote: >> >>I've been having trouble with my main email (this is not it). Whenever I try >>to post a message to a mailman mailing list with it, nothing happens. I >>can't confirm subscriptions or post. Obviously, this email works fine with >>any mailman server. With my main email, I've tried multiple clients >>(evolution, thunderbird). None of them work. This has only happened since a >>few months ago. I know this problem isn't unique to a certain list, because >>it happens on this mailing list and all of my other projects. I have even >>tried using Comcast's web interface, so I know it is not the way I've set my >>client up. > > >You seem to have eliminated every variable except the address itself. >It might help us to help you if you told us what that is (or at least >the local part). Are you sure that the issue is Mailman not receiving or ignoring your mail and not you ignoring Mailman's responses? Does this address receive other peopls list posts? Do your posts appear in the list's archive? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jun 1 01:13:52 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 16:13:52 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email address cannot post to a specific mailing list In-Reply-To: <4A22C00C.4000606@comcast.net> Message-ID: Cory Walker wrote: > >I've been having trouble using this email address to post to my projects >mailing list, linux4nano-dev at gna.org. No matter what I do, my emails >never go through. I am subscribed, and I have also tried resubscribing. >Obviously, I can use it to post to other lists. I've tried using another >email and it works fine. Does anyone know what's wrong? See my second reply in the "Mailman does not respond to my email." thread at . Also note that Comcast's email service went through significant changes in the last few months. Check your Comcast email preferences - filters in particular - and look in your Comcast Spam folder. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From kremels at kreme.com Mon Jun 1 01:26:38 2009 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 17:26:38 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying Entire Membership List In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 31-May-2009, at 15:48, Mark Sapiro wrote: > So now your Membership List for that list will be all on one page > until > it exceeds 5000 members at which point it will be in alphabetical > chunks. Well, I set it to 100, not 5000 :) Is there anyway to have it never ever use the new (well, not new anymore, I suppose) alphabetic chunks no matter what? I'd much prefer 100 per page, for as many pages as it takes. -- Nothing gold can stay -- Robert Frost Stay gold -- Johnny Cade From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jun 1 03:23:27 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 18:23:27 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying Entire Membership List In-Reply-To: Message-ID: LuKreme wrote: > >Is there anyway to have it never ever use the new (well, not new >anymore, I suppose) alphabetic chunks no matter what? I'd much prefer >100 per page, for as many pages as it takes. It's been an RFE for some time . I understand that for lists of one or two hundred members, it might be desirable to show two to four pages of 50, but with thousands of members, the alphabetic chunks may be preferred. You're welcome to submit a patch. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From kremels at kreme.com Mon Jun 1 09:49:31 2009 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 01:49:31 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying Entire Membership List In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <243BFA94-BCD1-4826-B98D-0A81393763FB@kreme.com> On 31-May-2009, at 19:23, Mark Sapiro wrote: > LuKreme wrote: >> Is there anyway to have it never ever use the new (well, not new >> anymore, I suppose) alphabetic chunks no matter what? I'd much >> prefer >> 100 per page, for as many pages as it takes. > > > It's been an RFE for some time > . > > I understand that for lists of one or two hundred members, it might be > desirable to show two to four pages of 50, but with thousands of > members, the alphabetic chunks may be preferred. Yep, I can see that for lists of thousands of users it might be useful. But really, that's a tiny minority of lists. Most mailing lists are from a couple of dozen to a couple of hundred users. It seems like a tiered 'chunk size' might be useful. (Under 500 users, use x users per page, over 500 use alphabetics pages). Or, probably the best solution, given a list of say 198 users and a chunk-size of 50, display the pages like this: A-Fr Fu-Le Li-Ru Sa-Za (50) (50) (50) (48) assuming that users include adam at example.com and fred at example.com and Fungar at example.com and lee at example.com and linus at example.com and rugrat at example.com and sandy at example.com and zang at example.com. > You're welcome to submit a patch. Ah, well, yeah. That might be realistic if 1) I was a real programmer instead of just a dabbler and 2) I spoke python. -- Beware of the Leopard! From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jun 1 16:48:44 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 07:48:44 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install question - was: Errors on mailman startup In-Reply-To: <68779e050906010554s66f6e360kbd72f4e310fec4f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Malveeka Tewari wrote: > >I trying to run mailman on my own laptop. >I have been able to install mailman and it's running (i can view the mailman >start up pages) > >I have specified the DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_HOST to be my laptop's >ip addresses in mm_cfg.py > >But am not able to send/recieve mails >I am also not able to create new lists. >(When trying to create new lists, I get an error: *Unknown virtual host ) >* >Is there something wrong with my postfix installation or with the mm_cfg.py >values? Did you mean DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST? Note that these should be defined as domain names, not IP addresses. IP addresses may work in some contexts, but if you don't have a domain name, you will have problems sending and receiving mail. Note these are generic problems with mail, and not specific to Mailman. In order to be able to send mail reliably, you need a non-generic domain name with a fixed IP address and a rDNS pointing from that IP to the domain name. Without these, you will find your mail blocked by many services. After defining DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST in mm_cfg.py, you need VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() to remove the Defaults.py values from the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary, and add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) to add the new values. Can you send mail from your laptop through the local Postfix? E.g., with Postfix's 'sendmail' command. Can your laptop receive any mail at all, e.g. for a local user? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From admin2 at enabled.com Mon Jun 1 17:36:54 2009 From: admin2 at enabled.com (admin2) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 08:36:54 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] list member address parsing question Message-ID: <4A23F596.4030602@enabled.com> Hi list, Somebody suggested me ask the mailman folks this question. My google official account username is but I have verified and activated another email address "sample at domain2.com" . I am able to originate email with "sample at domain2.com" in the "from" email but mailman still rejects the message claiming "Sorry, only subscribers may post." Mailman thinks I am not a member of the list and is considering me "blah at domain.com" even though I can see in the bounce that "sample at domain2.com" is in the From portion of the header. The SMTP header of the bounce claims "Received-SPF: pass", "Return-Path: ", and "Sender: " When I send the same mail through a domain I administer the email "sample at domain2.com" is properly identified. Is there anything more I can configure to appease mailman's legitimacy checking? Cheers, noah From cgregory at hwcn.org Mon Jun 1 17:53:24 2009 From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 11:53:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying Entire Membership List In-Reply-To: <243BFA94-BCD1-4826-B98D-0A81393763FB@kreme.com> References: <243BFA94-BCD1-4826-B98D-0A81393763FB@kreme.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Jun 2009, LuKreme wrote: >> It's been an RFE for some time >> . >> I understand that for lists of one or two hundred members, it might be >> desirable to show two to four pages of 50, but with thousands of >> members, the alphabetic chunks may be preferred. Rather than limit the display to addresses beginning with the specified letter, why not just have the listing *start* at the specified letter, but continue to the end of the full list of members? If I select 'P' the list would start at 'P' and continue with 'Q' and 'R' up to 50 per page, and if I click the 'next' link, it would just keep going to the end of the list... Is there some efficiency to limiting the display to one letter of the alphabet? - C From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jun 1 20:44:41 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 11:44:41 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] list member address parsing question In-Reply-To: <4A23F596.4030602@enabled.com> Message-ID: admin2 wrote: > >Somebody suggested me ask the mailman folks this question. > >My google official account username is but I have >verified and activated another email address "sample at domain2.com" . I >am able to originate email with "sample at domain2.com" in the "from" email >but mailman still rejects the message claiming "Sorry, only subscribers >may post." Is the address sample at domain2.com a member of the list? >Mailman thinks I am not a member of the list and is >considering me "blah at domain.com" even though I can see in the bounce >that "sample at domain2.com" is in the From portion of the header. I do not understand the above. Which of these addresses are members of the list. Mailman only goes by the exact email address. E.g. even if userx at example.com is a list member, userx at mail.example.com is not. >The >SMTP header of the bounce claims "Received-SPF: pass", "Return-Path: >", and "Sender: " > >When I send the same mail through a domain I administer the email >"sample at domain2.com" is properly identified. > >Is there anything more I can configure to appease mailman's legitimacy >checking? As I said, I can't diagnose the issue without knowing what addresses are list members. The following is in Defaults.py # Membership tests for posting purposes are usually performed by looking at a # set of headers, passing the test if any of their values match a member of # the list. Headers are checked in the order given in this variable. The # value None means use the From_ (envelope sender) header. Field names are # case insensitive. SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender') If this is unchanged in mm_cfg.py, a post will be considered to be from a list member if any of From:, the envelope sender (Return-Path:), Reply-To: or Sender: (in that order) contain an exact member address. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jun 1 21:16:43 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:16:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install question - was: Errors on mailman startup In-Reply-To: <68779e050906011123m1a26bd36g85e409fc2f8f7372@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Malveeka Tewari wrote: > >Yes I meant DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.. Sorry about that > >Postfix seems to be working fine.. >I am able to send and recieve mails to the local users > >I do not have a fixed IP address. Is there anywhere I can get a free domain >name for my laptop fr sometime ( 1 week or so) so that I can test my mailman >setup on my laptop? You could check out . I am not recommending either for or against using such a service, just pointing it out. >Since don't have any FQDN for my laptop, If I want to run mailman on my >laptop what should i give the value of DEFAULT_URL_HOST and >DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST ? You can use an IP address for testing purposes if you add it to the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary as I indicated in my prefious reply., but you can't actually run a real list in this way. Note also that even with a domain name as provided by dyndns or equivalent, many ISPs will not accept mail from such a domain. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jun 1 22:51:28 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 13:51:28 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying Entire Membership List In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Charles Gregory wrote: > >Rather than limit the display to addresses beginning with the specified >letter, why not just have the listing *start* at the specified letter, >but continue to the end of the full list of members? If I select 'P' >the list would start at 'P' and continue with 'Q' and 'R' up to 50 per >page, and if I click the 'next' link, it would just keep going to the end >of the list... Is there some efficiency to limiting the display to one >letter of the alphabet? The Mailman web interface is being totally reimplemented for Mailman 3.0. I have no interest in making these kinds of changes before that. If someone does a good implementation of this, I'm happy to look at it and possibly pick it up, but I'm not going to do it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From gordon at tft-bbs.co.uk Mon Jun 1 20:52:46 2009 From: gordon at tft-bbs.co.uk (Gordon Smith) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 19:52:46 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domains for Mailing Lists in MailMan Message-ID: Hello I found this E-Mail address on the MailMan homepage and decided to contact you as I don't seem to be able to locate the information I need elsewhere. To explain my circumstance. I am a visually impaired person, trying to get to grips with administrating a mail server under Apple Mac OS X 10.5.7 (Leopard) server. I need to host mailing lists under virtual domains hosted on our server but can't see quite how this is accomplished. Is there anywhere I can obtain this information as Apple's documentation on this subject seems poor from what I've seen. I really do apologise for any inconvenience I may cause you by contacting you - but if you could point me to the relevant information pages as to how to accomplish virtual domain list configuration under Apple's server platform I'd be very grateful. As a blind person this information is not always easy for me to locate. Thank you in advance for any help. Gordon From malveeka at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 14:54:25 2009 From: malveeka at gmail.com (Malveeka Tewari) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 14:54:25 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install question - was: Errors on mailman startup In-Reply-To: <68779e050905291511x16579a53k631d8e6c3b68c4be@mail.gmail.com> References: <68779e050905291441o4701afcnf6b3d6c42e228d9b@mail.gmail.com> <68779e050905291511x16579a53k631d8e6c3b68c4be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <68779e050906010554s66f6e360kbd72f4e310fec4f7@mail.gmail.com> Hi I trying to run mailman on my own laptop. I have been able to install mailman and it's running (i can view the mailman start up pages) I have specified the DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_HOST to be my laptop's ip addresses in mm_cfg.py But am not able to send/recieve mails I am also not able to create new lists. (When trying to create new lists, I get an error: *Unknown virtual host ) * Is there something wrong with my postfix installation or with the mm_cfg.py values? On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 12:11 AM, Malveeka Tewari wrote: > Thanks a lot! > Now atleast my mailman is running > > Malveeka > > > On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 11:50 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> Malveeka Tewari wrote: >> > >> >I tried creating a newlist using bin/newlist >> > >> >It asked me for an email address and password which I enetered but I got >> an >> >error >> >Illegal list name: mailman-admin at localhost >> >> >> The instructions you are following are no good. DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and >> DEFAULT_URL_HOST and the host names you supply to configure have to be >> fully qualified domain names. 'localhost' won't work. >> >> -- >> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, >> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan >> >> > From malveeka at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 20:23:57 2009 From: malveeka at gmail.com (Malveeka Tewari) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 20:23:57 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install question - was: Errors on mailman startup In-Reply-To: References: <68779e050906010554s66f6e360kbd72f4e310fec4f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <68779e050906011123m1a26bd36g85e409fc2f8f7372@mail.gmail.com> Hi Mark Yes I meant DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.. Sorry about that Postfix seems to be working fine.. I am able to send and recieve mails to the local users I do not have a fixed IP address. Is there anywhere I can get a free domain name for my laptop fr sometime ( 1 week or so) so that I can test my mailman setup on my laptop? Since don't have any FQDN for my laptop, If I want to run mailman on my laptop what should i give the value of DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST ? On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 4:48 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Malveeka Tewari wrote: > > > >I trying to run mailman on my own laptop. > >I have been able to install mailman and it's running (i can view the > mailman > >start up pages) > > > >I have specified the DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_HOST to be my > laptop's > >ip addresses in mm_cfg.py > > > >But am not able to send/recieve mails > >I am also not able to create new lists. > >(When trying to create new lists, I get an error: *Unknown virtual host ) > >* > >Is there something wrong with my postfix installation or with the > mm_cfg.py > >values? > > > Did you mean DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST? > > Note that these should be defined as domain names, not IP addresses. IP > addresses may work in some contexts, but if you don't have a domain > name, you will have problems sending and receiving mail. Note these > are generic problems with mail, and not specific to Mailman. > > In order to be able to send mail reliably, you need a non-generic > domain name with a fixed IP address and a rDNS pointing from that IP > to the domain name. Without these, you will find your mail blocked by > many services. > > After defining DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST in mm_cfg.py, > you need > > VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() > > to remove the Defaults.py values from the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary, and > > add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) > > to add the new values. > > Can you send mail from your laptop through the local Postfix? E.g., > with Postfix's 'sendmail' command. > > Can your laptop receive any mail at all, e.g. for a local user? > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > From rich at edj.net Mon Jun 1 20:39:19 2009 From: rich at edj.net (rich at edj.net) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 12:39:19 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not delivering to local users Message-ID: <20090601123919.82t90ium3xoogcsw@edj.net> I have Fedora 10 running postfix-2.5.6-1.fc10.i386 and mailman-2.1.11-5.fc10.i386. I can send and recieve email fine. Mailman recieves all emails fine but only sends to remote users but not all remote users. Recipients on the local machine do not recieve any emails from mailman. I would like to figure out how to fix this. My settings are basically unchanged from an older Fedora 6 system. smtp-failure is full of entries like this: Jun 01 12:30:34 2009 (1059) delivery to user1 at gxxx.xx failed with code -1: please run connect() first Jun 01 12:30:34 2009 (1059) delivery to user2 at xxxxxxx.com failed with code -1: (111, 'Connection refused') My mm_cfg.py: DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'domain.net' DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'domain.net' MTA = 'Postfix' POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [''] VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) My postfix.cf: command_directory = /usr/sbin daemon_directory = /usr/libexec/postfix inet_interfaces = all unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550 debug_peer_level = 2 debugger_command = PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin xxgdb $daemon_directory/$process_name $process_id & sleep 5 newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases.postfix mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq.postfix setgid_group = postdrop html_directory = no myhostname = domain.net mydomain = domain.net myorigin = $mydomain mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8, xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain message_size_limit = 209715200 local_recipient_maps = proxy:unix:passwd.byname $alias_maps smtp_helo_required= yes disable_vrfy_command = yes virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual, hash:/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases smtpd_recipient_restrictions = reject_non_fqdn_recipient, reject_unknown_recipient_domain, permit_mynetworks, check_client_access hash:/etc/postfix/pop-before-smtp, reject_unauth_destination, permit smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes content_filter = smtp-amavis:[127.0.0.1]:10024 mailbox_command = /usr/bin/procmail mailbox_size_limit = 1197152000 allow_untrusted_routing = no readme_directory = no sample_directory = /etc/postfix sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail manpage_directory = /usr/local/man queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix mail_owner = postfix From kremels at kreme.com Tue Jun 2 18:31:39 2009 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 10:31:39 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] name 'mailman' is not defined Message-ID: <367B96A8-88FD-455C-BE58-10BCFC445E5C@kreme.com> After getting everything working and walking away from the computer for the weekend+Monday I am seeing this in the logs: (Command died with status 1: "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post hgt- school". Command output: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/ usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 32, in from Mailman import mm_cfg File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py", line 57, in add_virtualhost(mailman.covisp.net, mail.covisp.net) NameError: name 'mailman' is not defined ) mm_cfg.py has: VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() add_virtualhost(mailman.covisp.net, mail.covisp.net) -- Amazingly Beautiful Creatures Dancing Excites the Forest Glade, in my Heart how I do Jump like the Kudo Listen to the Music so Nice the Organ Plays. Quietly Rests the Sleepy Tiger Under the Vine tree at the Water's side and X marks the spot 'neath the Yellow moon where the Zulu king and I did hide. From kjohnson at pcc.edu Tue Jun 2 19:02:27 2009 From: kjohnson at pcc.edu (Kirke Johnson) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 10:02:27 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I enforce secure admin passwords? Message-ID: <200906021702.n52H2uxK009505@mailout.pcc.edu> I am concerned that list owners can put insecure admin passwords on their lists. My testing suggests that short passwords are accepted as well as alpha-only. The only control I have found is the length of admin passwords generated by Mailman. I have not located anything else that would enforce even minimal password security. Am I missing something here? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kirke Johnson Internet: kjohnson at pcc.edu Email Administrator, TSS , Sylvania Campus http://www.pcc.edu/ Portland Community College, Portland, OR, USA (503) 977-4368 From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jun 3 03:21:38 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 18:21:38 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] name 'mailman' is not defined In-Reply-To: <367B96A8-88FD-455C-BE58-10BCFC445E5C@kreme.com> Message-ID: LuKreme wrote: >After getting everything working and walking away from the computer >for the weekend+Monday I am seeing this in the logs: > >(Command died with status 1: "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post hgt- >school". Command output: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/ >usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 32, in from Mailman >import mm_cfg File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py", line 57, >in add_virtualhost(mailman.covisp.net, mail.covisp.net) >NameError: name 'mailman' is not defined ) > >mm_cfg.py has: >VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() >add_virtualhost(mailman.covisp.net, mail.covisp.net) I don't think you could have successfully started Mailman (bin/mailmanctl start or however you start it) with this error. Or perhaps Mailman was already running and you neglected to restart after making the mm_cfg.py changes. What I told you to put in mm_cfg.py was DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mailman.covisp.net' DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mail.covisp.net' VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) If you don't have the first two of those lines, add them. If you just neglected to mention them, OK. If you would rather put the values in the add_virtualhost() line, that's OK, but since they are values, they have to be quoted as add_virtualhost('mailman.covisp.net', 'mail.covisp.net') -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From stephen at xemacs.org Wed Jun 3 03:48:13 2009 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 10:48:13 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I enforce secure admin passwords? In-Reply-To: <200906021702.n52H2uxK009505@mailout.pcc.edu> References: <200906021702.n52H2uxK009505@mailout.pcc.edu> Message-ID: <877hzuhyua.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Kirke Johnson writes: > I am concerned that list owners can put insecure admin passwords on > their lists. My testing suggests that short passwords are accepted as > well as alpha-only. The only control I have found is the length of > admin passwords generated by Mailman. I have not located anything > else that would enforce even minimal password security. > > Am I missing something here? No, except that there are other security issues with all Mailman passwords. Specifically, that these transactions are conducted over unencrypted channels anyway. I think the passwords are also stored in clear on the server (those of the list members are, since they appear in monthly reminders) but I could be wrong about that. It would be easy to add checks, I suppose, but you'd have to decide what checks you want. I don't think it would be much more difficult to add the concept of a user-supplied checker. Dealing with the link and storage security issues would be more complex. You'll have to wait for Mark to speak up to find out if there are any plans in 2.2. For Mailman 3, I suspect this is all still pretty much up in the air. Check the wiki and maybe post a feature request to Mailman-Developers. I suggest posting a feature request to the tracker in any case so the suggestion won't get lost. From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jun 3 03:45:21 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 18:45:21 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I enforce secure admin passwords? In-Reply-To: <200906021702.n52H2uxK009505@mailout.pcc.edu> Message-ID: Kirke Johnson wrote: >I am concerned that list owners can put insecure admin passwords on >their lists. My testing suggests that short passwords are accepted as >well as alpha-only. The only control I have found is the length of >admin passwords generated by Mailman. I have not located anything >else that would enforce even minimal password security. > >Am I missing something here? No. There are no controls in Mailman governing what is or isn't an acceptable password. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jun 3 04:09:42 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 19:09:42 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I enforce secure admin passwords? In-Reply-To: <877hzuhyua.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > >I think the passwords are also stored in >clear on the server (those of the list members are, since they appear >in monthly reminders) but I could be wrong about that. In Mailman 2.x, user passwords are stored in the clear, but list admin and moderator and site passwords are stored encrypted. In Mailman 3, all passwords will be stored as encrypted values and reminders will go away. There will be an on demand reset mechanism for user passwords. >It would be easy to add checks, I suppose, but you'd have to decide >what checks you want. I don't think it would be much more difficult >to add the concept of a user-supplied checker. Dealing with the link >and storage security issues would be more complex. You'll have to >wait for Mark to speak up to find out if there are any plans in 2.2. There is no plan to change the way passwords are stored for Mailman 2.2. It is not difficult to secure communications, i.e. to make Mailman generated URLs be https and to redirect http to https in the web server. Adding a hook to a user supplied password checker could be done in 2.2. I'll take a look at this idea. How about a default checker that just checks for minimum length defined in Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py, but overridable by the site. or maybe an mm_cfg.CheckPassword() function defined in Defaults.py as def CheckPassword(pwd): if len(pwd) > 0: return True else: return False Then the site can redefine this in mm_cfg.py to do anything they want. I think this should probably apply only to list and site passwords in MM 2.2. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From kremels at kreme.com Wed Jun 3 04:37:16 2009 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 20:37:16 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] name 'mailman' is not defined In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2-Jun-2009, at 19:21, Mark Sapiro wrote: > If you would rather put the values in the add_virtualhost() line, > that's OK, but since they are values, they have to be quoted as > > add_virtualhost('mailman.covisp.net', 'mail.covisp.net') Ah-hah! thanks, that was it. -- Mom: There was more than one lobster present at the birth of Jesus? Daughter: Duh. From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jun 3 05:35:49 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 20:35:49 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not delivering to local users In-Reply-To: <20090601123919.82t90ium3xoogcsw@edj.net> Message-ID: rich at edj.net wrote: >I have Fedora 10 running postfix-2.5.6-1.fc10.i386 and >mailman-2.1.11-5.fc10.i386. And Python >= 2.4.x I hope. >I can send and recieve email fine. Mailman recieves all emails fine >but only sends to remote users but not all remote users. Recipients on >the local machine do not recieve any emails from mailman. I would like >to figure out how to fix this. My settings are basically unchanged >from an older Fedora 6 system. smtp-failure is full of entries like >this: > >Jun 01 12:30:34 2009 (1059) delivery to user1 at gxxx.xx failed with code >-1: please run connect() first >Jun 01 12:30:34 2009 (1059) delivery to user2 at xxxxxxx.com failed with >code -1: (111, 'Connection refused') The first of the above two messages could be due to a bug in the Python smtplib module (and no, Python 2.4.x doesn't fix it, that's for the next thing). See . This may be the reason for all your smtp-failure issues. If not, you can get more information about these errors if your Python is 2.4.x or newer. See the FAQ at for how to do this. In any case, it seems likely, both from your description and from the smtp-failure log that postfix thinks your local users (or at least many of them) are invalid. >mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain I confess I am not at all sure about this, but I have mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost It may help to add an unqualified localhost to the list. What does Postfix (maillog) say about the local addresses? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From stephen at xemacs.org Wed Jun 3 07:14:31 2009 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 14:14:31 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I enforce secure admin passwords? In-Reply-To: References: <877hzuhyua.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <87y6s9hpag.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Mark Sapiro writes: > Adding a hook to a user supplied password checker could be done in 2.2. > I'll take a look at this idea. How about a default checker that just > checks for minimum length defined in Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py, but > overridable by the site. or maybe an mm_cfg.CheckPassword() function > defined in Defaults.py as > > def CheckPassword(pwd): > if len(pwd) > 0: > return True > else: > return False > > Then the site can redefine this in mm_cfg.py to do anything they want. It occurs to me that this API is going to make it hard to provide help to users. Maybe CheckPassword's API should be to raise an InvalidPasswordError with an appropriate reason, or alternatively to return a false value if nothing is wrong with the password, otherwise return a list of reasons it is invalid (ie, return 'reasons' in the example below). So I'd like to be able to do import re letter_re = re.compile("[a-zA-Z]") digit_re = re.compile("[0-9]") minimum_admin_password_length = 8 def MyCheckPassword(pwd): # require passwords to contain letters and digits reasons = [] if not re.search(letter_re,pwd): reasons.append("your password did not contain a letter") if not re.search(digit_re,pwd): reasons.append("your password did not contain a digit") if len(pwd) < minimum_admin_password_length: reasons.append("your password was not at least %d characters long" % \ (minimum_admin_password_length,)) if reasons: raise InvalidPasswordError(reasons) CheckPassword = MyCheckPassword > I think this should probably apply only to list and site passwords in > MM 2.2. Agreed. From fermat at rigel.deusto.es Wed Jun 3 12:39:56 2009 From: fermat at rigel.deusto.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Alvaro_Ur=EDa?=) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 12:39:56 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] i18n: admin/mod environment vs. user environment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A2652FC.7010205@rigel.deusto.es> Hi again, El 05/28/09 19:28, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Yes. This appears to be a bug. The code looks like it's trying to do > the right thing, but it fails. I'll see if I can fix it. Do you want me to open a bug report at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/ Best regards, Alvaro. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 260 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jun 3 17:12:24 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 08:12:24 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] i18n: admin/mod environment vs. user environment In-Reply-To: <4A2652FC.7010205@rigel.deusto.es> Message-ID: Alvaro Ur?a wrote: > >El 05/28/09 19:28, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> Yes. This appears to be a bug. The code looks like it's trying to do >> the right thing, but it fails. I'll see if I can fix it. > >Do you want me to open a bug report at: >https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/ Yes, that would be good. I have already worked up a preliminary patch, but doing this completely correctly and consistently is tricky without a major refactoring of the code. Every exception has two associated messages - the "hold reason" and the default "reject reason". I have ensured that the hold reason, which is displayed in the admindb interface and in the emails to the admin are in the list's language and the hold reason in the message sent to the user is in the user's language. The default reject reason will display in the admindb detail interface in the user's language because there's no way with the current design to get it sent to the user in the user's language in all cases. The other issue is if the user follows the "cancel" link in the user notice, the reason displayed on the confirmation page is in the list's language. Again, the current design doesn't allow this to be in a language different from what's displayed on the admindb pages and in the summary notices mailed to the admin. I hope this partial solution will be acceptable. It is not perfect, but I think it addresses the most common issues. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From kjohnson at pcc.edu Wed Jun 3 23:33:32 2009 From: kjohnson at pcc.edu (Kirke Johnson) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 14:33:32 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I enforce secure admin passwords? In-Reply-To: <877hzuhyua.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <200906021702.n52H2uxK009505@mailout.pcc.edu> <877hzuhyua.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <200906032133.n53LXiUN030238@mailout.pcc.edu> We took care of the clear text transmissions, I believe. One of the first things we did with Mailman was to make sure all web activity uses https. Similarly, we use SSL for email server authentication and mail transfer security. What is bothering me is list owners who want to use their initials or the list name as list owner passwords. I feel like kind of a sitting duck when we can't see the passwords they have chosen and have no way to enforce decent choices. Thanks for your interest and thoughts as to how Mailman might be enhanced in this area! At 06:48 PM 6/2/2009, you wrote: >Kirke Johnson writes: > > > I am concerned that list owners can put insecure admin passwords on > > their lists. My testing suggests that short passwords are accepted as > > well as alpha-only. The only control I have found is the length of > > admin passwords generated by Mailman. I have not located anything > > else that would enforce even minimal password security. > > > > Am I missing something here? > >No, except that there are other security issues with all Mailman >passwords. Specifically, that these transactions are conducted over >unencrypted channels anyway. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kirke Johnson Internet: kjohnson at pcc.edu Email Administrator, TSS , Sylvania Campus http://www.pcc.edu/ Portland Community College, Portland, OR, USA (503) 977-4368 From chris-barnes at tamu.edu Wed Jun 3 23:37:52 2009 From: chris-barnes at tamu.edu (Chris Barnes) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 16:37:52 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive toast - how to rebuild Message-ID: <4A26ED30.2050306@tamu.edu> The archive directory (the entire thing) of our mailman install is toast. The funny thing is, I really don't care about any of the archive files. But, without the archive directory structure there, Mailman seems to be confused. Is there a way to get Mailman to simply begin a new archive for every list? Preferably in a directory of my choosing (ie. in /home/mailman/archives/ rather than in /var/lib/mailman/archives/)? -- Chris Barnes AOL IM: CNBarnes chris-barnes at tamu.edu Yahoo IM: chrisnbarnes Computer Systems Manager MSN IM: chris at txbarnes.com Department of Physics ph: 979-845-7801 Texas A&M University fax: 979-845-2590 From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jun 4 00:27:39 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 15:27:39 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive toast - how to rebuild In-Reply-To: <4A26ED30.2050306@tamu.edu> Message-ID: Chris Barnes wrote: >The archive directory (the entire thing) of our mailman install is >toast. The funny thing is, I really don't care about any of the archive >files. > >But, without the archive directory structure there, Mailman seems to be >confused. > >Is there a way to get Mailman to simply begin a new archive for every >list? Preferably in a directory of my choosing (ie. in >/home/mailman/archives/ rather than in /var/lib/mailman/archives/)? The paths to the private and public archives directories are set by the definitions of PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR and PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR. These are set in Defaults.py with PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR = os.path.join(VAR_PREFIX, 'archives', 'public') PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR = os.path.join(VAR_PREFIX, 'archives', 'private') but can be overridden in mm_cfg.py with say PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR = '/home/mailman/archives/public' PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR = '/home/mailman/archives/private' These paths will need to exist with appropriate group and mode - Mailman's group for all three and mode 2775 for archives and archives/public and mode 2771 for archives/private. In addition you need the directories /home/mailman/archives/private/LISTNAME/ and /home/mailman/archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/ with Mailman's group and mode 2775 for each list. I'm not sure if you need the file /home/mailman/archives/private/LISTNAME/index.html or not. I don't think so, and it will be overwritten with the first post anyway. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Thu Jun 4 01:11:59 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 18:11:59 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I enforce secure admin passwords? In-Reply-To: <200906032133.n53LXiUN030238@mailout.pcc.edu> References: <200906021702.n52H2uxK009505@mailout.pcc.edu> <877hzuhyua.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <200906032133.n53LXiUN030238@mailout.pcc.edu> Message-ID: <4A27033F.20904@riverviewtech.net> On 6/3/2009 4:33 PM, Kirke Johnson wrote: > What is bothering me is list owners who want to use their initials or > the list name as list owner passwords. I feel like kind of a sitting > duck when we can't see the passwords they have chosen and have no way to > enforce decent choices. It should be a lot easier to test to see if the password (clear text or encrypted) matches known values as compared to testing to see if it's an other wise good password. (No dictionary is needed to check against.) Grant. . . . From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jun 4 01:51:59 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:51:59 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I enforce secure admin passwords? In-Reply-To: <4A27033F.20904@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: Grant Taylor wrote: >On 6/3/2009 4:33 PM, Kirke Johnson wrote: >> What is bothering me is list owners who want to use their initials or >> the list name as list owner passwords. I feel like kind of a sitting >> duck when we can't see the passwords they have chosen and have no way to >> enforce decent choices. > >It should be a lot easier to test to see if the password (clear text or >encrypted) matches known values as compared to testing to see if it's an >other wise good password. (No dictionary is needed to check against.) What known values? List name, yes, but the list owner's name, initials, whatever are not known to Mailman - only her email address. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jun 4 02:31:04 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 17:31:04 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I enforce secure admin passwords? In-Reply-To: <87y6s9hpag.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > >It occurs to me that this API is going to make it hard to provide help >to users. Maybe CheckPassword's API should be to raise an >InvalidPasswordError with an appropriate reason, or alternatively to >return a false value if nothing is wrong with the password, otherwise >return a list of reasons it is invalid (ie, return 'reasons' in the >example below). Thank you Stephen. Your API is clearly better than mine. I appreciate the help. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From stephen at xemacs.org Thu Jun 4 04:06:48 2009 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 11:06:48 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I enforce secure admin passwords? In-Reply-To: References: <87y6s9hpag.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <87oct4hhvr.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Mark Sapiro writes: > Thank you Stephen. Your API is clearly better than mine. I appreciate > the help. No problem! I will try to get back in touch with the code base; maybe I can actually contribute a patch .... From claire.laing at topalbertadoctors.org Wed Jun 3 22:11:53 2009 From: claire.laing at topalbertadoctors.org (Claire L Laing) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 14:11:53 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Message-ID: Hi, Our program has been using your program for a couple of years now. Because we didn't have our own website, we were able to use our local university's site to set up the groups. We recently got our own website through Host Papa, and decided to create our own mailing list instead. It began three weeks ago, and although we didn't have problems before, we are having most of the email bounce back. Is there someone who can help us with this? Claire Laing Communication Designer Toward Optimized Practice CMA Alberta House 12230 106 Ave NW Edmonton, AB?? T5N 3Z1 780.732.3367? or? 1.866.505.3302 claire.laing at TOPalbertadoctors.org www.TOPalbertadoctors.org From detlef.brendle at canoo.com Tue Jun 2 18:54:22 2009 From: detlef.brendle at canoo.com (Detlef Brendle) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 18:54:22 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman data access In-Reply-To: <1743748443.80761243961573181.JavaMail.root@nelson.canoo.com> Message-ID: <1043193082.80781243961662597.JavaMail.root@nelson.canoo.com> Hello Mailman users, this might not be the right way of asking questions - but maybe I can get an answer to my question. I was searching and searching with google for a possibility to access the mailman data with a programatic interface. This would allow me to write a client in Java and access my mailman managed mails and present them in a neat User interface. I have seen in the mailman docu that a programatic interface exist (4.09 Mailman bin commands) but I dont know how to handle them in my case. Let me draw an example here: - my mailing list is running on http://mydomain.com/mailman/private/mailingList/ - now I want to search (via http or any other access method) for all entries - I should also be possible to search by keywords ( i.e. threads by a userId, threads by title..) Does anybody know a similar project or has anybody done this before ? thanks for you help, detlef From JGray at somervillema.gov Tue Jun 2 17:27:37 2009 From: JGray at somervillema.gov (Julie Gray) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 11:27:37 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions about Mailman Message-ID: <05E737CD9BF1C7479D7F1A4A881272EB01F0723D@exchange.somerville.ma.us> Hello, I am working with the government of Somerville, Massachusetts in order to determine an appropriate email list hosting service. I have a few questions about the Mailman server which are not answered on your website. Is there a way to link Mailman to a blog to send automatic updates? Or is this a service that is not offered? Is there an option to include a sign-up box on our website? Or must users go to the mailman homepage to subscribe to one of our lists? I look forward to hearing from you as soon as possible. This information is critical to our decision making process. Thank you, Julie Gray Somerstat City of Somerville From malveeka at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 19:35:49 2009 From: malveeka at gmail.com (Malveeka Tewari) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 19:35:49 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install question - was: Errors on mailman startup In-Reply-To: References: <68779e050906011123m1a26bd36g85e409fc2f8f7372@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <68779e050906031035w455eb476q21bf83d03846e495@mail.gmail.com> Now I have managed to get mailman working correctly but for one small problem. Users can subscribe to a list, confrm the subcription, create new lists. But they can't post to the list. I think I need to fix my postfix settings. I am able to send mails to local users and also to other Internet mail accounts but can only receive local mails but not from external mail accounts. Can you please tell me how to fix this? Thanks Malveeka On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 9:16 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Malveeka Tewari wrote: > > > >Yes I meant DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.. Sorry about that > > > >Postfix seems to be working fine.. > >I am able to send and recieve mails to the local users > > > >I do not have a fixed IP address. Is there anywhere I can get a free > domain > >name for my laptop fr sometime ( 1 week or so) so that I can test my > mailman > >setup on my laptop? > > > You could check out . I am > not recommending either for or against using such a service, just > pointing it out. > > > >Since don't have any FQDN for my laptop, If I want to run mailman on my > >laptop what should i give the value of DEFAULT_URL_HOST and > >DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST ? > > > You can use an IP address for testing purposes if you add it to the > VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary as I indicated in my prefious reply., but you > can't actually run a real list in this way. > > Note also that even with a domain name as provided by dyndns or > equivalent, many ISPs will not accept mail from such a domain. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > From Stephen.Plumpton at actionforblindpeople.org.uk Tue Jun 2 16:47:01 2009 From: Stephen.Plumpton at actionforblindpeople.org.uk (Stephen Plumpton) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 15:47:01 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject) Message-ID: <0548D251AFD78348A566B74D932BF0D8D90CDC@SRV47_EXCHCL.afbp.org> Hi there I would like to create a list for blind people to use to discuss IT related queries. How do I start a list off and how do people subscribe. Do I need to instal mailman on a Unix based machine as the first step? Or can a windows machine be used. Thank you Stephen Plumpton Stephen N. Plumpton Action for Blind People North West Team Technology Officer Tel: 0151 298 3222 The Gateway Centre 71 London Road Liverpool L3 8HY Action for Blind People is an expert national organisation, ensuring blind and partially sighted people get practical support in all aspects of their lives. In April 2009 Action for Blind People became an associate charity of RNIB, in an innovative partnership combining regional service delivery across England. This partnership enables both organisations to share skills and deliver services in line with the UK Vision Strategy. For more information phone us on our National Freephone Helpline 0800 915 4666 or visit our fully accessible website. www.actionforblindpeople.org.uk . Registered Charity no: 205913 (England and Wales) SC040050 (Scotland) P Grow a tree, plant seeds. From t.munk at hvcc.edu Tue Jun 2 18:01:48 2009 From: t.munk at hvcc.edu (Terrence P. Munk) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 12:01:48 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list support Message-ID: Good day My name is Terry Munk and I manage the website for a small lake assoc. in upstate New York. Members have asked about the possibility of our having a mailing list set up to send out information to our membership. Our current host does not offer this service. We are a 501 C 3 not for Profit organization. My question is can you tell me if there is someplace out there where we can create a mailing list? I am a novice at the mailing list so I could very easily be using the wrong terms, not too sure. What I am looking for is to create a list that our membership could subscribe and unsubscribe to through a secure web site that we could send out a monthly newsletter through and occasional other items. Our current address is ny-glenlake.org . I try to keep this information as up to date as possible on our web site; however we have members who for various reasons are able to get e-mail but not look at web sites. Thank you in advance for any assistance that you might be able to provide. Terry Munk webmaster at ny-glenlake.org From zhang.zhengquan at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 19:50:01 2009 From: zhang.zhengquan at gmail.com (Zhengquan Zhang) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 12:50:01 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating hundreds of lists to another host Message-ID: <20090603175001.GA25466@m364d1.ece.northwestern.edu> Hi mailman list, Since our list server is getting old and dying, I plan to migrate list service to another host. mailman is working with a postfix setup. the migration will be temporary and once I setup a new server for the list I will move the lists back. My question is, how Can I minimize list downtime and allow for users to use the lists without any feeling the service has been moved to another host? for example, the hostname is different for the temporary host and others? I am clueless asto how to do this. Thanks for any pointers and enlightenments, -- Zhengquan From brian at emwd.com Thu Jun 4 12:52:15 2009 From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 06:52:15 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <007401c9e502$87940590$96bc10b0$@com> > My question is can you tell me if there > is > someplace out there where we can create a mailing list? I am a novice > at > the mailing list so I could very easily be using the wrong terms, not > too > sure. What I am looking for is to create a list that our membership > could > subscribe and unsubscribe to through a secure web site that we could > send > out a monthly newsletter through and occasional other items. Our > current > address is ny-glenlake.org . I try to > keep > this information as up to date as possible on our web site; however we > have > members who for various reasons are able to get e-mail but not look at > web > sites. > > Thank you in advance for any assistance that you might be able to > provide. > > Terry Munk > > webmaster at ny-glenlake.org > Hi Terry: I would like to take the time to invite you to check out our mailman services. I believe our service is exactly what you are looking for. You can get more information about our mailman list hosting at http://www.emwd.com/mailman.html. Feel free to contact me off list if you need more information. Have a great week. :^) Regards, Brian Carpenter EMWD.com -------------------------------------------------------- http://blog.emwd.com/ Curious comments from a web hosting techie From barry at list.org Thu Jun 4 14:17:49 2009 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 08:17:49 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman data access In-Reply-To: <1043193082.80781243961662597.JavaMail.root@nelson.canoo.com> References: <1043193082.80781243961662597.JavaMail.root@nelson.canoo.com> Message-ID: On Jun 2, 2009, at 12:54 PM, Detlef Brendle wrote: > I was searching and searching with google for a possibility to > access the mailman data with a programatic interface. > > This would allow me to write a client in Java and access my mailman > managed mails and present them in a neat User interface. You'll really want to start looking at Mailman 3. Two things will help you. First, all the data is kept (by default) in a SQLite database. Other RDBMs will be easily possible and it's conceivable that other backends could be written as well. Second, you will have complete administrative access to the running Mailman engine through a RESTful interface. This work is only now being fleshed out. There's minimal code in the tree for that now and it's the major focus of the work I'm doing now. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 832 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Thu Jun 4 15:04:51 2009 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 14:04:51 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions about Mailman In-Reply-To: <05E737CD9BF1C7479D7F1A4A881272EB01F0723D@exchange.somerville.ma.us> References: <05E737CD9BF1C7479D7F1A4A881272EB01F0723D@exchange.somerville.ma.us> Message-ID: <20090604130450.GM7408@amyl.org.uk> On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 11:27:37AM -0400, Julie Gray wrote: > Is there a way to link Mailman to a blog to send automatic updates? > Or is this a service that is not offered? Not, afaik, out of the box, however, it shouldn't be too difficult to whip up a curl/diff/plain-textize -> mail script, where the action of the script is to mail the list. (or be lazy, and use feedburner, and an account that has posting rights to the list). Your blog platform may support a "notify" gizmo, in which case you *could* use the list address as that to recieve those notifications. > Is there an option to include a sign-up box on our website? Or must > users go to the mailman homepage to subscribe to one of our lists? Yes. There's providing an example of how to so do that. -- Yorkshire Water has been deluged by a flood of complaints following its poor handling of the drought (BBC news) From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Thu Jun 4 15:09:39 2009 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 14:09:39 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions about Mailman In-Reply-To: <20090604130450.GM7408@amyl.org.uk> References: <05E737CD9BF1C7479D7F1A4A881272EB01F0723D@exchange.somerville.ma.us> <20090604130450.GM7408@amyl.org.uk> Message-ID: <20090604130939.GN7408@amyl.org.uk> On Thu, Jun 04, 2009 at 02:04:51PM +0100, Adam McGreggor wrote: > On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 11:27:37AM -0400, Julie Gray wrote: > > Is there a way to link Mailman to a blog to send automatic updates? > > Or is this a service that is not offered? > > Not, afaik, out of the box, however, it shouldn't be too difficult to > whip up a curl/diff/plain-textize -> mail script, where the action of > the script is to mail the list. (or just pull new content from the blog's database, as the message body, and use the blog title for the subject: line (which is what I've got set-up in one place)) -- If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. (Galbraith) From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Thu Jun 4 16:22:13 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 09:22:13 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions about Mailman In-Reply-To: <05E737CD9BF1C7479D7F1A4A881272EB01F0723D@exchange.somerville.ma.us> References: <05E737CD9BF1C7479D7F1A4A881272EB01F0723D@exchange.somerville.ma.us> Message-ID: <4A27D895.1040802@riverviewtech.net> On 06/02/09 10:27, Julie Gray wrote: > Is there a way to link Mailman to a blog to send automatic updates? > Or is this a service that is not offered? Not as such. However you could have Mailman send messages to something else that will do the updates for you. A couple of options come to mind. 1) Add a (moderated) subscriber that is a utility account that will accept emails from the Mailman mailing list and extract the data and update your blog from that. 2) Configure your Mailman mailing list to gateway messages to a NNTP newsgroup / news server and then configure something on your blog to reference the said newsgroup / news server. You might have better luck if you use things the other way around, in such as your blog sends messages to your Mailman mailing list and then have Mailman distribute the messages to your subscribers. Grant. . . . From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jun 4 16:46:47 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 07:46:47 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Claire L Laing wrote: > >Our program has been using your program for a couple of years now. Because we didn't have our own website, we were able to use our local university's >site to set up the groups. We recently got our own website through Host Papa, and decided to create our own mailing list instead. It began three weeks >ago, and although we didn't have problems before, we are having most of the email bounce back. Is there someone who can help us with this? This list can help, but we need more information. Also, we can be of most help if you installed Mailman on your hosted web server. If Mailman is provided by the Host Papa, you may not have access to all the information we might need, and may have to work through the host. But for a start, When you say "we are having most of the email bounce back", do you mean that members are being disabled by Mailman's bounce processing or attempted posts are being rejected or what? What do the bounce notifications, whatever they are, say? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Thu Jun 4 19:43:06 2009 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 18:43:06 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating hundreds of lists to another host In-Reply-To: <20090603175001.GA25466@m364d1.ece.northwestern.edu> References: <20090603175001.GA25466@m364d1.ece.northwestern.edu> Message-ID: <20090604174306.GU7408@amyl.org.uk> On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 12:50:01PM -0500, Zhengquan Zhang wrote: > Hi mailman list, > > Since our list server is getting old and dying, I plan to migrate list > service to another host. > > mailman is working with a postfix setup. the migration will be temporary > and once I setup a new server for the list I will move the lists back. > > My question is, how Can I minimize list downtime and allow for users to > use the lists without any feeling the service has been moved to another > host? for example, the hostname is different for the temporary host and > others? I am clueless asto how to do this. So, ideally, you want to get something quick and dirty working for a few hours, whilst you commission and build/do final config of a new server? Two (and an half) ideas spring to mind: (a) rsync the mailman & mta configs over to $TEMPBOX, adjust Mailman default configs, fix-up URIs/mail addresses, set forwarding of Mailman addresses on $OLDMTA to $TEMPBOX, fix-up $HTTPD to proxy out Mailman stuff (vaguely) (b) Switch-off/disable (list)-mail on $OLDHOST, and rely on secondaries until $NEWHOST is ready... (c) Make your MTA just bounce back to listmembers, posting to your list addresses (listmembers, sort, uniq), saying something like "Down for maint, try again in a couple of hours/check the status pages". As I gather, $NEWHOST will be a replacement (with the same hostname, ip addy, services &c) to $OLDHOST. There's a bit of effort (even scripted) in doing (a), and it'll need to be undone/reversed when you bring $NEWHOST up. I'm a lazy sysadmin, so would probably go down (b) route. I might shove something out for info, (c), but depends how pressed for time I was/how long the move/build would take. And I would have most of the new-machine built/config'd, so it would just be a case of downing, changing network settings, and bringing the new-machine up; should be <30mins; then however long to copy over Mailman's data/archives. -- ``What is a committee? A group of the unwilling, picked from the unfit, to do the unnecessary.'' (Richard Harkness) From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jun 4 19:57:23 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 10:57:23 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <0548D251AFD78348A566B74D932BF0D8D90CDC@SRV47_EXCHCL.afbp.org> Message-ID: Stephen Plumpton wrote: > >I would like to create a list for blind people to use to discuss IT >related queries. How do I start a list off and how do people subscribe. > > > >Do I need to instal mailman on a Unix based machine as the first step? >Or can a windows machine be used. It is possible to run Mailman, Apache and an MTA under Cygwin on Windows, but I don't recommend it. Some *nix OS is better. You might also consider a hosted service. See for some possibilities. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jun 5 18:55:14 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 09:55:14 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domains for Mailing Lists in MailMan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A294DF2.3080303@msapiro.net> Gordon Smith wrote: > > To explain my circumstance. I am a visually impaired person, trying to > get to grips with administrating a mail server under Apple Mac OS X > 10.5.7 (Leopard) server. > > I need to host mailing lists under virtual domains hosted on our server > but can't see quite how this is accomplished. > > Is there anywhere I can obtain this information as Apple's documentation > on this subject seems poor from what I've seen. Gordon, Unfortunately, our documentation of virtual hosts with Mailman is probably no better than Apple's. Also, I'm not sure how accessible it is to a visually impaired person. Finally, most of us know nothing about Apple's GUI for Mailman. We are familiar only with our own web interface and configuration methods. That said, virtual hosting within Mailman is pretty simple. Mailman keeps a web host and an email host for each list, so list's can have email addresses and or web addresses in different domains. There is one possibly major restriction. List names must be globally unique within an installation. Within Mailman, there is very little configuration for virtual hosts. There is a DEFAULT_URL_HOST and a corresponding DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST. Beyond that, you add additional hosts with entries like add_virtualhost('www.example.com', 'mail.example.com') in mm_cfg.py for each host. The purpose of this is primarily so when you go to a URL like http://www.example.com/mailman/create to create a list, it gets created with the corresponding email host. There is also a bit more configuration if Postfix is your MTA to make Postfix integration work with virtual domains. This is described in section 6.1 of the installation manual at . The rest is in the MTA, and possibly the web server, although (assuming Apache) if the Mailman specific Alias, ScriptAlias and Directory settings are in a global section of the configuration, the web server will probably work OK without change. Most of the documentation we have is in the above referenced installation manual and the FAQ at Please don't hesitate to post any followup questions to . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rhelwig at flls.org Thu Jun 4 17:52:06 2009 From: rhelwig at flls.org (Rex Helwig) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:52:06 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question on the Sender Filter Message-ID: <00c801c9e52c$69ab5e50$3d021af0$@org> I am trying to allow the members of one of our other lists to be able to post to another list without being a member. I have tried several permutations of the list address but haven't found one that works. Our current version is 2.1.11. The list I moderate is sc at polarisusersgroup.org and I would like to allow the members of the all at polarisusersgroup.org to post to it. I have tried @all, ^@all, @all at polarisusersgroup.org, ^@all at polarisusersgroup.org , all at polarisusersgroup.org without any success. How should I enter the all list to get this to function? Thanks, Rex Sc Mailing list Configuration Help accept_these_nonmembers Option accept_these_nonmembers (privacy): List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted. Postings from any of these non-members will be automatically accepted with no further moderation applied. Add member addresses one per line; start the line with a ^ character to designate a regular expression match. A line consisting of the @ character followed by a list name specifies another Mailman list in this installation, all of whose member addresses will be accepted for this list. Top of Form Bottom of Form Rex Rex R. Helwig Computer Network Services Manager Finger Lakes Library System 119 E. Green St. Ithaca, NY 14850 (607)273-4074 x40 mailto:rhelwig at flls.org http://www.flls.org From zhang.zhengquan at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 22:33:29 2009 From: zhang.zhengquan at gmail.com (Zhengquan Zhang) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 15:33:29 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating hundreds of lists to another host In-Reply-To: <20090604174306.GU7408@amyl.org.uk> References: <20090603175001.GA25466@m364d1.ece.northwestern.edu> <20090604174306.GU7408@amyl.org.uk> Message-ID: <20090604203329.GB19909@m364d1.ece.northwestern.edu> On Thu, Jun 04, 2009 at 06:43:06PM +0100, Adam McGreggor wrote: > On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 12:50:01PM -0500, Zhengquan Zhang wrote: > > Hi mailman list, > > > > Since our list server is getting old and dying, I plan to migrate list > > service to another host. > > > > mailman is working with a postfix setup. the migration will be temporary > > and once I setup a new server for the list I will move the lists back. > > > > My question is, how Can I minimize list downtime and allow for users to > > use the lists without any feeling the service has been moved to another > > host? for example, the hostname is different for the temporary host and > > others? I am clueless asto how to do this. > > So, ideally, you want to get something quick and dirty working for a > few hours, whilst you commission and build/do final config of a new > server? Well, it is not a few hours, the old server still has other services running, so I will gradually migrate all services seemlessly to the temporary server and at the same time build a new server and get things back to the new server. > > Two (and an half) ideas spring to mind: > (a) rsync the mailman & mta configs over to $TEMPBOX, adjust > Mailman default configs, fix-up URIs/mail addresses, > set forwarding of Mailman addresses on $OLDMTA to $TEMPBOX, > fix-up $HTTPD to proxy out Mailman stuff (vaguely) > (b) Switch-off/disable (list)-mail on $OLDHOST, and rely on > secondaries until $NEWHOST is ready... > (c) Make your MTA just bounce back to listmembers, posting to your > list addresses (listmembers, sort, uniq), saying something > like "Down for maint, try again in a couple of hours/check the > status pages". > > As I gather, $NEWHOST will be a replacement (with the same > hostname, ip addy, services &c) to $OLDHOST. > > There's a bit of effort (even scripted) in doing (a), and it'll > need to be undone/reversed when you bring $NEWHOST up. I'm a lazy > sysadmin, so would probably go down (b) route. I might shove something > out for info, (c), but depends how pressed for time I was/how long the > move/build would take. So it seems harder than I expected to really have the list services migrate to another host seamlessly. I will do more searching of the mailman-user archives. > > And I would have most of the new-machine built/config'd, so it would > just be a case of downing, changing network settings, and bringing the > new-machine up; should be <30mins; then however long to copy over > Mailman's data/archives. Thanks for your help, -- Zhengquan From repsons at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 11:06:39 2009 From: repsons at gmail.com (=?utf-8?q?K=C4=81rlis_Repsons?=) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 09:06:39 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderated subscription? Message-ID: <200906050906.39854.repsons@gmail.com> Hello there, somebody please tell me, how can I make a list subscription moderated, so only approved people can post, but no moderation is required then? k. From rob.macgregor at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 16:32:42 2009 From: rob.macgregor at gmail.com (Rob MacGregor) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 15:32:42 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43ea8d070906040732y1a6803faw16372d35bd754cd4@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 21:11, Claire L Laing wrote: > > Hi, > > Our program has been using your program for a couple of years now. Because we didn't have our own website, we were able to use our local university's > site to set up the groups. We recently got our own website through Host Papa, and decided to create our own mailing list instead. It began three weeks > ago, and although we didn't have problems before, we are having most of the email bounce back. Is there someone who can help us with this? Probably many people, but as you've posted nothing technical about the problem, nobody right now ;) Can you post a sample bounce message. -- Please keep list traffic on the list. Rob MacGregor Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he doesn't become a monster. Friedrich Nietzsche From bernie at fantasyfarm.com Sat Jun 6 00:30:25 2009 From: bernie at fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 18:30:25 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting a reason in a reject Message-ID: <4A296441.21618.69AC680@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> I'm clearly confused and doing something stupid wrong. I periodically go to the admin panel and deal with the 'defer'ed messages. Usually I start with "discard all messages marked defer" and then go through and either reject or accept the ones that aren't spam. My problem is that in the display it correctly lists the *reason* why the message got trapped, but when I just set 'reject' and tell it to go "do it", the reject message ends up looking like: -------------------- Subject: Request to mailing list XXX rejected Date: Jun 5, 2009 10:23 AM Your request to the XXX mailing list Posting of your message titled "Whatever" has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the following reason for rejecting your request: "No reason given" -------------------- A double question: 1) why didn't it give as the reason the reason that was *there* (in this case, non-member submission to a restricted list), and 2) if it doesn't do that automatically, where can I put in a reason -- I don't see a spot in the web form for putting *in* a reason. Thanks! /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:bernie at fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA --> Too many people, too few sheep <-- From shop at justbrits.com Sat Jun 6 05:18:53 2009 From: shop at justbrits.com (Ed's Shop) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 22:18:53 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting a reason in a reject In-Reply-To: <4A296441.21618.69AC680@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Bernie Cosell [mailto:bernie at fantasyfarm.com] Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 5:30 PM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting a reason in a reject I'm clearly confused and doing something stupid wrong. I periodically go to the admin panel and deal with the 'defer'ed messages. Usually I start with "discard all messages marked defer" and then go through and either reject or accept the ones that aren't spam. My problem is that in the display it correctly lists the *reason* why the message got trapped, but when I just set 'reject' and tell it to go "do it", the reject message ends up looking like: -------------------- Subject: Request to mailing list XXX rejected Date: Jun 5, 2009 10:23 AM Your request to the XXX mailing list Posting of your message titled "Whatever" has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the following reason for rejecting your request: "No reason given" -------------------- A double question: 1) why didn't it give as the reason the reason that was *there* (in this case, non-member submission to a restricted list), and 2) if it doesn't do that automatically, where can I put in a reason -- I don't see a spot in the web form for putting *in* a reason. Thanks! /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers mailto:bernie at fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA --> Too many people, too few sheep <-- ------------------------------------------------------ Bernie, as I just tried your "test", am I correct that you have a cPanel install of MM (reason I ask is that the reply you got IS exactly what I got with several Lists of mine) ??? Ed Please visit MY site at: www.justbrits.com From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jun 6 07:46:39 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 22:46:39 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting a reason in a reject In-Reply-To: <4A296441.21618.69AC680@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> Message-ID: Bernie Cosell wrote: >I'm clearly confused and doing something stupid wrong. I periodically go >to the admin panel and deal with the 'defer'ed messages. Usually I start >with "discard all messages marked defer" and then go through and either >reject or accept the ones that aren't spam. My problem is that in the >display it correctly lists the *reason* why the message got trapped, but >when I just set 'reject' and tell it to go "do it", the reject message >ends up looking like: Each specific hold has both a "reason" and a "rejection notice" The reason is what is displayed in the admindb (and elswhere) as the reason why the post was held, and the rejection notice is the default rejection notice. If you actually click the message # in the summary listing of all held messages, you will go to a detail page where the rejection notice is filled in by default and you can edit it, but if you reject a message from the summary page, you get the generic "no reason given" message. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jun 6 07:32:51 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 22:32:51 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question on the Sender Filter In-Reply-To: <00c801c9e52c$69ab5e50$3d021af0$@org> Message-ID: Rex Helwig wrote: >I am trying to allow the members of one of our other lists to be able to >post to another list without being a member. I have tried several >permutations of the list address but haven't found one that works. Our >current version is 2.1.11. The list I moderate is sc at polarisusersgroup.org >and I would like to allow the members of the all at polarisusersgroup.org to >post to it. I have tried @all, ^@all, @all at polarisusersgroup.org, >^@all at polarisusersgroup.org , >all at polarisusersgroup.org without any success. How should I enter the all >list to get this to function? @all is the correct syntax. Why is the post held? Is the reason 'Post by non-member to a members-only list'? If not, then it is held for something not having to do with list membership. If so, is the the From: (or possibly Sender: if USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER is set to Yes in mm_cfg.py) address the exact address that's a member of list1? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jun 6 08:03:47 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 23:03:47 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderated subscription? In-Reply-To: <200906050906.39854.repsons@gmail.com> Message-ID: Karlis Repsons wrote: >Hello there, >somebody please tell me, how can I make a list subscription moderated, so only >approved people can post, but no moderation is required then? Set Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> default_member_moderation to Yes Under Membership Management... -> Membership List -> Additional Member Tasks -> Set everyone's moderation bit, including those members not currently visible, select On and click set. Then on the Membership List, uncheck the "mod" box for those you want to allow to post without moderation, but be aware that these addresses can be easily spoofed. See the FAQ at for a better way. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dunkel at calamus.net Sun Jun 7 11:37:50 2009 From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 11:37:50 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to set up notifications for Membership Management? Message-ID: <4A2B8A6E.7060707@calamus.net> I cannot find out how I can figure the following default settings: Membership Management: - Mass Subscription: - Send welcome messages to new subscribees? (Yes) - Send notifications of new subscriptions to the list owner? (Yes) - Mass Removal: - Send unsubscription acknowledgement to the user? (Yes) - Send notifications to the list owner? (No) Whatever I set up (e.g. in "General Options"), I cannot set this configuration. Is it possible anyhow? Thanks in advance for your help. :-) --UlfDunkel From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jun 7 15:46:59 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 06:46:59 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to set up notifications for MembershipManagement? In-Reply-To: <4A2B8A6E.7060707@calamus.net> Message-ID: Ulf Dunkel wrote: >I cannot find out how I can figure the following default settings: > >Membership Management: >- Mass Subscription: > - Send welcome messages to new subscribees? (Yes) Defaults to the list setting General Otions -> Notifications -> send_welcome_msg > - Send notifications of new subscriptions to the list owner? (Yes) Defaults to the list setting General Otions -> Notifications -> admin_notify_mchanges >- Mass Removal: > - Send unsubscription acknowledgement to the user? (Yes) Defaults to No > - Send notifications to the list owner? (No) Defaults to the list setting General Otions -> Notifications -> admin_notify_mchanges >Whatever I set up (e.g. in "General Options"), I cannot set this >configuration. Is it possible anyhow? It is only possible by modifying the code in the mass_subscribe() and mass_remove() definitions in Mailman/Cgi/admin.py. Without modification, the user notification for Mass Removal always defaults to No and the owner notifications for Mass Subscription and Mass Removal default to the same setting. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From terri at zone12.com Sun Jun 7 17:05:03 2009 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 11:05:03 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to set up notifications for MembershipManagement? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A2BD71F.4080501@zone12.com> Mark Sapiro wrote: > Ulf Dunkel wrote: >> Whatever I set up (e.g. in "General Options"), I cannot set this >> configuration. Is it possible anyhow? > It is only possible by modifying the code in the mass_subscribe() and > mass_remove() definitions in Mailman/Cgi/admin.py. Without > modification, the user notification for Mass Removal always defaults > to No and the owner notifications for Mass Subscription and Mass > Removal default to the same setting. If you're just looking for a personal fix, it would be fairly easy to make a bookmarklet or greasemonkey script which set these defaults in your browser. Terri From malveeka at gmail.com Sun Jun 7 19:14:20 2009 From: malveeka at gmail.com (Malveeka Tewari) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 19:14:20 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] openID enabled mailman Message-ID: <68779e050906071014s65115496ncf94b2c675efccb9@mail.gmail.com> Hi I am working on implementing openID server for the mailman setup I am running. I have started using mailman only recently and need help/feedback on my approach. We want to provide the list users an option whether or not to have enable openID. On the "" page, the users will see an option for 1. Enable/Disable openID login for your subscription 2. Sign in with existing openID login for your subscription *1. Enable/Disable openID login for your subscription* *account* For enabling and diabling the openID feature, the users login their subscribed accounts as they do now for changing any of the subcription options. On this page if they enable the openID feature, they recieve an automated reply with their openID identifier. The password for the openID identifier is the same as that for the subscription accounts. If they change their subscription passwords, their openID password gets changed too. *2. Sign in with existing openID login* The user gets redirected to a page where it enters it's openID identifer and the password and can now manage its account settings with the openID identifier. This authentication and further logging, modification of subscription configurations will be handled by the openID server. As I understand, the *changes that need to be made to the existing mailman code* include the following: Changing the MemberAdaptor.py and UserDesc.py for including information whether or not openID identifier is enabled for a paricular user. Propogating changes made to openID-identified-accounts to the subscription configurations. Changing the webpage interfaces for provinding and allowing users to access these options I want to know if there's already an openID enabled version of mailman available And what files would I need to make changes to include openID support in mailman Thanks Malveeka From hansen at rc.org Sun Jun 7 22:17:52 2009 From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 13:17:52 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirmation messages are rejected Message-ID: Hi all, Several users have now complained to me that their address change confirmation messsages get rejected as follows (an example): ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: <women-bounces at mail.rc.org> Date: 2009/6/7 Subject: The results of your email commands To: user_name at gmail.com The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your original message. - Results: Ignoring non-text/plain MIME parts Invalid confirmation string. Note that confirmation strings expire approximately 3 days after the initial subscription request. If your confirmation has expired, please try to re-submit your original request or message. - Unprocessed: confirm ffc239cae5b91c5b2f50ec283ab33f0e1550544d - Done. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: User Name <user_name at gmail.com> To: women-request at mail.rc.org Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 21:38:58 +0200 Subject: confirm ffc239cae5b91c5b2f50ec283ab33f0e1550544d confirm ffc239cae5b91c5b2f50ec283ab33f 0e1550544d I searched the wiki for similar complaints, but did not find one, sorry. Mailman 2.1.9 (MacOS 10.5.6). Thanks, Allan -- Allan Hansen P.O Box 2423 Cypress, CA 90630 U.S.A. hansen at rc.org +1-714-875-8870 From brad at shub-internet.org Sun Jun 7 23:08:42 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 16:08:42 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] openID enabled mailman In-Reply-To: <68779e050906071014s65115496ncf94b2c675efccb9@mail.gmail.com> References: <68779e050906071014s65115496ncf94b2c675efccb9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A2C2C5A.9080709@shub-internet.org> on 6/7/09 12:14 PM, Malveeka Tewari said: > I want to know if there's already an openID enabled version of > mailman available And what files would I need to make changes to > include openID support in mailman The OpenID project uses Mailman themselves, and they have hacked it to allow OpenID logins. They even shared with us the code that they have. I took a look at trying to bring this into the main codebase, and I was not able to figure out how to do that -- when they put in OpenID, they broke everything else, and I could never figure out how to get the two to co-exist at the same time. IMO, this may be a better question to ask on their mailing lists, or to ask the people who maintain their mailing lists. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jun 8 02:33:35 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 17:33:35 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirmation messages are rejected In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Allan Hansen wrote: > >Several users have now complained to me that their address change >confirmation messsages get rejected as follows (an example): > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: <women-bounces at mail.rc.org> >Date: 2009/6/7 >Subject: The results of your email commands >To: user_name at gmail.com > > >The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your >original message. > >- Results: > Ignoring non-text/plain MIME parts > > Invalid confirmation string. Note that confirmation strings expire >approximately 3 days after the initial subscription request. If your >confirmation has expired, please try to re-submit your original request or >message. > >- Unprocessed: > confirm ffc239cae5b91c5b2f50ec283ab33f0e1550544d > >- Done. > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: User Name <user_name at gmail.com> >To: women-request at mail.rc.org >Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 21:38:58 +0200 >Subject: confirm ffc239cae5b91c5b2f50ec283ab33f0e1550544d >confirm ffc239cae5b91c5b2f50ec283ab33f >0e1550544d There are two confirmation commands in the above message. One in the subject and one in the body. While the one in the body is wrapped above, it appears it was not and was therefore OK in the original email. Have you verified that the confirmation was in fact submitted before it expired? Have you verified that the address change was not confirmed and the address wasn't changed? The above response is a normal response to a confirmation like the above if the confirmation was either expired or previously processed by web or email. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From hansen at rc.org Mon Jun 8 03:04:37 2009 From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 18:04:37 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirmation messages are rejected In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you, Mark. You are a priceless resource for this community. Yes, the confirmation was submitted on the same day it was created. No, the address change had not happened when the user got the message. I also checked the system date on the server and it is correct. Allan At 5:33 PM -0700 6/7/09, Mark Sapiro wrote: >Allan Hansen wrote: >> >>Several users have now complained to me that their address change >>confirmation messsages get rejected as follows (an example): >> >>---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>From: <women-bounces at mail.rc.org> >>Date: 2009/6/7 >>Subject: The results of your email commands >>To: user_name at gmail.com >> >> >>The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your >>original message. >> >>- Results: >> Ignoring non-text/plain MIME parts >> >> Invalid confirmation string. Note that confirmation strings expire >>approximately 3 days after the initial subscription request. If your >>confirmation has expired, please try to re-submit your original request or >>message. >> >>- Unprocessed: >> confirm ffc239cae5b91c5b2f50ec283ab33f0e1550544d >> >>- Done. >> >> >>---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>From: User Name <user_name at gmail.com> >>To: women-request at mail.rc.org >>Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 21:38:58 +0200 >>Subject: confirm ffc239cae5b91c5b2f50ec283ab33f0e1550544d >>confirm ffc239cae5b91c5b2f50ec283ab33f >>0e1550544d > > >There are two confirmation commands in the above message. One in the >subject and one in the body. While the one in the body is wrapped >above, it appears it was not and was therefore OK in the original >email. > >Have you verified that the confirmation was in fact submitted before it >expired? > >Have you verified that the address change was not confirmed and the >address wasn't changed? > >The above response is a normal response to a confirmation like the >above if the confirmation was either expired or previously processed >by web or email. > >-- >Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, >San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -- Allan Hansen P.O Box 2423 Cypress, CA 90630 U.S.A. hansen at rc.org +1-714-875-8870 From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jun 8 03:46:45 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 18:46:45 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirmation messages are rejected In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Allan Hansen wrote: > >Yes, the confirmation was submitted on the same day it was created. >No, the address change had not happened when the user got the message. >I also checked the system date on the server and it is correct. Did you verify that the address change has not happened? I know you say "the address change had not happened when the user got the message", but how do you know? did you verify that the old address was still on the admin Membership List and the new was not? If you have command-line access to the server, the script at will list the pending requests, and may help you see what's there. I don't think it's possible that the request didn't actually get pended if the confirmation was sent, but you can look. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dunkel at calamus.net Mon Jun 8 08:10:33 2009 From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 08:10:33 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to set up notifications for MembershipManagement? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A2CAB59.1080109@calamus.net> Hi Mark. >> - Send notifications of new subscriptions to the list owner? (Yes) > > Defaults to the list setting General Otions -> Notifications -> > admin_notify_mchanges >> - Send notifications to the list owner? (No) > > Defaults to the list setting General Otions -> Notifications -> > admin_notify_mchanges > It is only possible by modifying the code in the mass_subscribe() and > mass_remove() definitions in Mailman/Cgi/admin.py. Without > modification, the user notification for Mass Removal always defaults > to No and the owner notifications for Mass Subscription and Mass > Removal default to the same setting. So wouldn't it be a good idea to introduce separate settings for both welcome and goodbye events, e.g. - admin_notify_subscribes - admin_notify_unsubscribes Should I write a feature request for this? --UlfDunkel From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jun 9 20:23:44 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 11:23:44 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to set up notifications forMembershipManagement? In-Reply-To: <4A2CAB59.1080109@calamus.net> Message-ID: Ulf Dunkel wrote: > >So wouldn't it be a good idea to introduce separate settings for both >welcome and goodbye events, e.g. >- admin_notify_subscribes >- admin_notify_unsubscribes Mailman already has too many settings and options. I don't think it is a good idea to add more, unless there is a clear demand. I think (no evidence - just a guess) that as many people would think this should be one option as would think it should be two. >Should I write a feature request for this? You are of course welcome to submit an RFE, but unless there is a large, positive response, you probably won't see it implemented. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From CNulk at scu.edu Wed Jun 10 00:47:45 2009 From: CNulk at scu.edu (Chris Nulk) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:47:45 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to set up notificationsforMembershipManagement? In-Reply-To: References: <4A2CAB59.1080109@calamus.net> Message-ID: <4A2E8423.C780.0050.0@scu.edu> I am not asking for nor suggesting any changes but it might be easier for Ulf (if he is doing the mods) to use a bit mask. Have the admin notify option use the following bits for differentiating between the subscribes and unsubscribes: 0x00: no notifications 0x01: notify subscribes 0x10: notify unsubscribes 0x11: notify both In the code instead of looking for a yes/no/true/false, look for the appropriate bit. Just my take (FWIW), chris >>> Mark Sapiro Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:23 AM >>> Ulf Dunkel wrote: > >So wouldn't it be a good idea to introduce separate settings for both >welcome and goodbye events, e.g. >- admin_notify_subscribes >- admin_notify_unsubscribes Mailman already has too many settings and options. I don't think it is a good idea to add more, unless there is a clear demand. I think (no evidence - just a guess) that as many people would think this should be one option as would think it should be two. >Should I write a feature request for this? You are of course welcome to submit an RFE, but unless there is a large, positive response, you probably won't see it implemented. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail ( http://www.mail/ )-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cnulk%40scu.edu Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 From list at webpaving.com Thu Jun 11 23:27:49 2009 From: list at webpaving.com (Steven Bonisteel) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:27:49 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling quoting of original messages sent to "request" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090611212810.C55421B56E7@relay11.relay.iad.mlsrvr.com> Spammer sends message to a Mailman list's 'request' address using his real target's e-mail address in 'From:' Mailman responds with: "The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your original message ... " ... and then faithfully reproduces the spammer's original payload and sends to the target. How can I disable the quoting of the original messages in responses from the 'request' address? SRB -- Steve Bonisteel The Web Paving Company Ltd. / Kingston, Ontario Phone: 613-531-0479 / Cell: 613-484-3196 ICQ: 321181636 MSN/AIM/YAHOO: "webpaving" From terri at zone12.com Thu Jun 11 23:52:27 2009 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:52:27 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling quoting of original messages sent to "request" In-Reply-To: <20090611212810.C55421B56E7@relay11.relay.iad.mlsrvr.com> References: <20090611212810.C55421B56E7@relay11.relay.iad.mlsrvr.com> Message-ID: <4A317C9B.7050405@zone12.com> Steven Bonisteel wrote: > Spammer sends message to a Mailman list's 'request' address using his real target's e-mail address in 'From:' > > Mailman responds with: > > "The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your original message ... " > > ... and then faithfully reproduces the spammer's original payload and sends to the target. > > How can I disable the quoting of the original messages in responses from the 'request' address? Are you sure you want to just disable the quoting? I know the spams are obnoxious, but at least right now your users can tell that the spammer is the culprit. If you take that part out, then they may assume your installation of mailman is at fault, or that they somehow sent something out, which could be even more confusing than just receiving the spam copy is. That said, if you want more info on controlling this sort of thing, you might want to do a search for "mailman" and "backscatter" -- there was some discussion on this a while back that might have useful suggestions for your particular problem. Terri From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jun 12 00:56:24 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:56:24 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling quoting of original messages sent to"request" In-Reply-To: <20090611212810.C55421B56E7@relay11.relay.iad.mlsrvr.com> Message-ID: Steven Bonisteel wrote: > >Spammer sends message to a Mailman list's 'request' address using his real target's e-mail address in 'From:' > >Mailman responds with: > >"The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your original message ... " > >... and then faithfully reproduces the spammer's original payload and sends to the target. We are painfully aware of Mailman's backscatter issues (the above is only one), and there will be changes to address this in Mailman 2.2. >How can I disable the quoting of the original messages in responses from the 'request' address? In Mailman 2.1.x, only by modifying the the Results.send_response() method in Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py. If you want to do this, post that fact, and I can suggest a patch. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From list at webpaving.com Fri Jun 12 04:05:39 2009 From: list at webpaving.com (Steven Bonisteel) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:05:39 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling quoting of original messages sent to "request" In-Reply-To: References: <20090611212810.C55421B56E7@relay11.relay.iad.mlsrvr.com> Message-ID: <20090612122315.4536E5C00E0@relay5.relay.iad.emailsrvr.com> Thanks, Terri Oda and Mark Sapiro for the responses. The pointer to CommandRunner.py allowed me to quash the copied input for now. (I had to do something, as the issue was getting our server into CBL and so largely hobbling all our lists.) But I agree with Terri that the result is not ideal -- and probably confusing -- for legitimate users of the request address. We are lucky (I guess) in that we have an otherwise tightly controlled, custom front end for subscriber management and that the only time *most* legitimate users interact with the 'request' address is when Replying to a subscription confirmation. (And that may be the step where a cc: of the original message is least informative.) Regards, Steven At 06:56 PM 6/11/2009, Mark Sapiro wrote: >In Mailman 2.1.x, only by modifying the the Results.send_response() >method in Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py. If you want to do this, post >that fact, and I can suggest a patch. At 05:52 PM 6/11/2009, Terri Oda wrote: >Are you sure you want to just disable the quoting? I know the spams are obnoxious, but at least right now your users can tell that the spammer is the culprit. If you take that part out, then they may assume your installation of mailman is at fault, or that they somehow sent something out, which could be even more confusing than just receiving the spam copy is. -- Steve Bonisteel The Web Paving Company Ltd. / Kingston, Ontario Phone: 613-531-0479 / Cell: 613-484-3196 ICQ: 321181636 MSN/AIM/YAHOO: "webpaving" From dave at dpss.bz Fri Jun 12 16:45:34 2009 From: dave at dpss.bz (Dave Bevis) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 09:45:34 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing off but still receiving bounce messages Message-ID: <798FB017-07C6-42DC-8367-9348536E7FC5@dpss.bz> I have a list set up that the membership changes on the fly. When an email is sent out, the current list is removed and a new list is uploaded. I have turned bounce processing off but I am still receiving bounce messages. Is there a way to turn bounce processing off completely for a particular list? Mac os x server Mailman 2.1.4 Thanks. Dave From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jun 12 17:10:26 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:10:26 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing off but still receiving bounce messages In-Reply-To: <798FB017-07C6-42DC-8367-9348536E7FC5@dpss.bz> Message-ID: Dave Bevis wrote: >I have a list set up that the membership changes on the fly. When an >email is sent out, the current list is removed and a new list is >uploaded. I have turned bounce processing off but I am still >receiving bounce messages. Is there a way to turn bounce processing >off completely for a particular list? > >Mac os x server Mailman 2.1.4 If bounce processing is Off for listname, any message sent to listname-bounces at ... is ignored. If you are seeing bounces, either some broken MTA/MDA is returning them to other than the envelope sender or this is an Apple issue. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From alexx187 at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 14:07:54 2009 From: alexx187 at gmail.com (Alexx) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 15:07:54 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve all held? Message-ID: <8c96b1070906080507v102c499bodc8f5646610589f6@mail.gmail.com> Hi list-ees, After googling and searching the list archives, haven't been able to find an answer to: how could I approve all messeages (around hundred of'em) held for moderation due to one reason or another? I could manually approve some of them with "confirm in subject and approved:password message", but there are PLENTY of old ones held for more than 3 days in queue. I suppose it has to be done via /bin/withlist and a script, or is there another solution? TIA, Alexei. From duane at duanewinner.net Tue Jun 9 17:33:11 2009 From: duane at duanewinner.net (Duane Winner) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 11:33:11 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration to new server, new domain name Message-ID: <93532fbc0906090833i4bf63b7ey80952546f429e12f@mail.gmail.com> Hello, Can anybody point me to a document or explain to me what is necessary to complete these steps? We have a mailman server hosted on a FreeBSD box and need to migrate it an Ubuntu box and change domain names on all the lists. We have several dozen lists, all under the "foo.org" domain. We need to change "foo.org" to "bar.org" The current "mail.foo.org" server on FreeBSD is getting long in the tooth, and we need to move anyway to Ubuntu. So I need to set up a new Ubuntu server w/ Postfix, Mailman and Apache and call this server "mail.bar.org" and this will be the MX server for "bar.org". For each *@foo.org list, I need to move it to the new server, and it's archives to mail.bar.org and that list will be called *@bar.org But I also want to be able to protect users with forwarding.....if they still send mail to their old respective *@foo.org list, how do I configure to foward and process to the new *@bar.org list? Thanks in advance for any links, docs, or advice. DW From jrspam-lists at web-dreamer.de Sat Jun 6 18:15:16 2009 From: jrspam-lists at web-dreamer.de (Joe) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 18:15:16 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with mail robot -request Message-ID: <4A2A9614.4090606@web-dreamer.de> Dear Mailman-Users and Team, i am using mailman for a long time now and like for once to say thanks for the good work! A while ago we migrated the server and the lists. It comes that i recognized a problem. A mail to the mail robot mylist-request at mylist.domain goes straight to the moderation-queue and the user got a bounce that the mail is held for approval. Even when the moderator approves the mail - it is published to the list and not to the mail-robot. My first idea was that the migrated lists are buggy - but the same behaviour occurs after creating a new list. We are using virtualhosts and postfix as a mta. Any Ideas howto debug or which steps to take to get this problem solved are highly appreciated? Joe From Mark.McCord at us.army.mil Mon Jun 8 19:38:23 2009 From: Mark.McCord at us.army.mil (McCord, Mark C Mr CIV USA) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 12:38:23 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Move systems (UNCLASSIFIED) Message-ID: Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE I have mailman with postfix running on a 32-bit RHEL 5 system. I need to move it to a new 64-bit system. Is there a way to do so without losing the data, configurations, etc I already have? I have some Linux experience, but this my first foray into managing a list server (or any type of mail server). Mark Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE From mitchell.gore at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 17:11:30 2009 From: mitchell.gore at gmail.com (Mitch Gore) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 10:11:30 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] issues with having www on address Message-ID: Hi, I have my mailman set up and its working. I have one small issue left. If i goto http://mysite.com/mailman/admin/ I see all my lists. but if i goto http://www.mysite.com/mailman/admin i see all but 2 lists. In my mm_cfg.conf file I have: DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.mysite.com' DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'info.mysite.com' removing the www from the default url host doesnt seem to fix anything. is there a way i am suppose to handle these differant URL's? Thanks, -- Mitchell From patrickturnbull at btinternet.com Wed Jun 10 20:07:12 2009 From: patrickturnbull at btinternet.com (patrick ) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:07:12 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help please? Message-ID: I am using mailman to run a mail list members at saparweb.com The problem is that list members using xxxxx at hotmail addresses do not receive the messages, not even in their spam folders? Any suggestions please? Patrick From qwerty at opticalcomm.co.uk Sat Jun 6 13:40:19 2009 From: qwerty at opticalcomm.co.uk (Steve) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 12:40:19 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member list Message-ID: <4A2A55A3.3090806@opticalcomm.co.uk> Hi, I would need your advice... I am doing some tests at the moment. What I want to do, is to be able to "invite" or to make "subscribe" some people, in order to send them some newsletters. However, I do wish that ONLY the moderators and the administrator can send newsletters. None of the members should be able to send newsletters. - How can I disable it ? Instead of letting them sending emails and waiting for approval, I would prefer that this will be rejected automatically, without rejecting the admin and moderators Can I setup the system like this ? Thanks From repsons at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 15:41:03 2009 From: repsons at gmail.com (=?utf-8?q?K=C4=81rlis_Repsons?=) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 13:41:03 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] gmail marks mailman confirmation mail as spam... Message-ID: <200906081341.03500.repsons@gmail.com> Hi, maybe you have some recipe for making gmail treat confirmation mails as non-spam? It just throws mail "confirm e8492f19d7c336341050..". -- K?rlis Repsons -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From rickmorrison at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 22:54:07 2009 From: rickmorrison at gmail.com (Rick Morrison) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 16:54:07 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + virtualenv Message-ID: <90db063b0906081354y2541f645g77caf1617cd087@mail.gmail.com> I've been tasked with upgrading an existing Mailman installation to a new version while maintaining some patches we've previously made to the base setup. All this is to happen on a VPS hosted machine while the existing mailing list continues to run as-is. I'm considering doing a side-by-side install of a new version of Mailman under virtualenv, then porting over the changes, and then finally switching over once testing is done. Anyone out there have any experience running Mailman in virtualenv? Any known minefields to avoid? Thanks, Rick From Ross.Spencer at nationalarchives.gsi.gov.uk Wed Jun 10 14:34:45 2009 From: Ross.Spencer at nationalarchives.gsi.gov.uk (Spencer, Ross) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:34:45 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] requesting copies of previous messages on a mailman list Message-ID: <88A6AFA61447AC4AB9F280FC6747F90815E54A20@na-exch1.in.tna.local> ** Protective Marking : NOT PROTECTIVELY MARKED ** Hi, I am an administrator of a mailman mailing list. I am struggling to find any documentation on how to request a copy of a previously posted message using mailman. i.e. for new users to reply to existing threads. Is it anywhere in your documentation, can you point me in the right direction? Thanks, Ross Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- National Archives Disclaimer This email message (and attachments) may contain information that is confidential to The National Archives. If you are not the intended recipient you cannot use, distribute or copy the message or attachments. In such a case, please notify the sender by return email immediately and erase all copies of the message and attachments. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message and attachments that do not relate to the official business of The National Archives are neither given nor endorsed by it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From stja_sjam at yahoo.co.uk Sat Jun 6 13:12:15 2009 From: stja_sjam at yahoo.co.uk (Steve James) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 12:12:15 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question of adminstration Message-ID: <4A2A4F0F.10602@yahoo.co.uk> Hi, Sorry guys to bother you, but I cannot find anywhere the answer to my question I am doing some tests at the moment. What I want to do, is to create a mailing list, in order to send newsletters BUT Only the administrator and the moderator can send newsletters I don't want that the members in the list, can send any info, via our newsletter If they send any email, I would like to reject automatically the email. ( but not from the moderator or the Admin ) Thanks From brad at shub-internet.org Fri Jun 12 19:28:38 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 12:28:38 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve all held? In-Reply-To: <8c96b1070906080507v102c499bodc8f5646610589f6@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c96b1070906080507v102c499bodc8f5646610589f6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A329046.1090301@shub-internet.org> Alexx wrote: > After googling and searching the list archives, haven't been able to > find an answer to: > how could I approve all messeages (around hundred of'em) held for > moderation due to one reason or another? So far as I know, there is no method for doing this. You can discard all messages that are held for moderation, but there's no "approve all messages" option. You could always hack the source code yourself to add such a feature, if you were so inclined. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jun 12 19:33:42 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:33:42 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve all held? In-Reply-To: <8c96b1070906080507v102c499bodc8f5646610589f6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Alexx wrote: > > how could I approve all messeages (around hundred of'em) held for >moderation due to one reason or another? I could manually approve some >of them with "confirm in subject and approved:password message", but >there are PLENTY of old ones held for more than 3 days in queue. > >I suppose it has to be done via /bin/withlist and a script, or is >there another solution? Assuming the admindb web interface is working, you could go there and approve the posts. Otherwise, you can modify bin/discard to approve the posts rather than discard them. See for some information on the usage of bin/discard. If you look at the bin/discard script, near the end you will see mlist.HandleRequest(id, mm_cfg.DISCARD, '', False, False, '') (actually indented more than above). If you change mm_cfg.DISCARD to mm_cfg.APPROVE, the script will approve held posts rather than discard them. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jun 12 19:41:26 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:41:26 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with mail robot -request In-Reply-To: <4A2A9614.4090606@web-dreamer.de> Message-ID: Joe wrote: > > A while ago we migrated the server and the lists. It comes that i >recognized a problem. A mail to the mail robot >mylist-request at mylist.domain goes straight to the moderation-queue and >the user got a bounce that the mail is held for approval. Even when the >moderator approves the mail - it is published to the list and not to the >mail-robot. Mail to the LIST-request address should never be hels for approval unless it it also sent to the LIST posting address. >My first idea was that the migrated lists are buggy - but the same >behaviour occurs after creating a new list. > >We are using virtualhosts and postfix as a mta. I seems that possibly you have recipient_delimiter = - in Postfix's main.cf, but that alonoe should not cause this as the alias for LIST-request should override the '-' recipient delimiter in this case, so you apparently have a problem with your Mailman aliases and/or virtual maps too. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jun 12 19:57:18 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:57:18 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration to new server, new domain name In-Reply-To: <93532fbc0906090833i4bf63b7ey80952546f429e12f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Duane Winner wrote: > >Can anybody point me to a document or explain to me what is necessary to >complete these steps? > >We have a mailman server hosted on a FreeBSD box and need to migrate it an >Ubuntu box and change domain names on all the lists. > >We have several dozen lists, all under the "foo.org" domain. We need to >change "foo.org" to "bar.org" > >The current "mail.foo.org" server on FreeBSD is getting long in the tooth, >and we need to move anyway to Ubuntu. So I need to set up a new Ubuntu >server w/ Postfix, Mailman and Apache and call this server "mail.bar.org" >and this will be the MX server for "bar.org". > >For each *@foo.org list, I need to move it to the new server, and it's >archives to mail.bar.org and that list will be called *@bar.org This is covered in the FAQ at . >But I also want to be able to protect users with forwarding.....if they >still send mail to their old respective *@foo.org list, how do I configure >to foward and process to the new *@bar.org list? You need to congigure the MX MTA for foo.org with aliases or whatever to forward LIST at foo.org mail to LIST at bar.org for each list. In mailman, you probably want to set LIST at foo.org in Privacy options... -> Recipient filters -> acceptable_aliases for each LIST at bar.org list, although this isn't strictly necessary because current code will accept LIST at foo.org as an explicit destination for LIST at bar.org for backwards compatibility reasons. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jun 12 20:01:32 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 11:01:32 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member list In-Reply-To: <4A2A55A3.3090806@opticalcomm.co.uk> Message-ID: Steve wrote: > >I am doing some tests at the moment. >What I want to do, is to be able to "invite" or to make "subscribe" some >people, in order to send them some newsletters. > >However, I do wish that ONLY the moderators and the administrator can >send newsletters. None of the members should be able to send newsletters. >- How can I disable it ? See the FAQ at . >Instead of letting them sending emails and waiting for approval, I would >prefer that this will be rejected automatically, without rejecting the >admin and moderators Yes. This is covered in the FAQ, but note that the secure way to do this is to leave everyone moderated and post with an Approved: header as also mentioned in the FAQ. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jun 12 20:17:16 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 11:17:16 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] issues with having www on address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mitch Gore wrote: > >I have my mailman set up and its working. I have one small issue left. > >If i goto http://mysite.com/mailman/admin/ I see all my lists. > >but if i goto http://www.mysite.com/mailman/admin i see all but 2 lists. This is because all but two of your lists are "in" the www.mysite.com domain and the other two are "in" the mysite.com domain. The fact that the www.mysite.com lists appear on the mysite.com overview is actually a bug >In my mm_cfg.conf file I have: > >DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.mysite.com' >DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'info.mysite.com' > >removing the www from the default url host doesnt seem to fix anything. is >there a way i am suppose to handle these differant URL's? To understand why changing mm_cfg.py alone is not effective, see the FAQ at . In your case, if you have only the two domains and want to see all lists on the overview regardless of which URL you use, set VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off in mm_cfg.py. Otherwise, the above referenced FAQ explains hou to run fix_url to put all lists in the DEFAULT_URL_HOST domain. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From terri at zone12.com Fri Jun 12 20:20:01 2009 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:20:01 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve all held? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A329C51.9040900@zone12.com> Mark Sapiro wrote: > Alexx wrote: >> how could I approve all messeages (around hundred of'em) held for >> moderation due to one reason or another? I could manually approve some >> of them with "confirm in subject and approved:password message", but >> there are PLENTY of old ones held for more than 3 days in queue. >> >> I suppose it has to be done via /bin/withlist and a script, or is >> there another solution? > Assuming the admindb web interface is working, you could go there and > approve the posts. And if you want a script to work with that, here's one I wrote for greasemonkey (a firefox add-on that lets you script parts of your interface). You'll have to alter the @include line so it contains your own site address. This would probably work better as a bookmarklet, if someone wants to convert it. You'll still have to click "submit" yourself (which gives you a chance to review if you want) but it will move all the defaults to be "accept" // ==UserScript== // @name Approve all Mailman posts // @description Terri Oda's lazy way to approve all postings // @namespace http://terri.zone12.com // @include http://mailman.linuxchix.org/mailman/admindb/* // ==/UserScript== var inputs = document.getElementsByTagName("input"); for (var i=0; i < inputs.length; i++){ if(inputs[i].type == 'radio' && inputs[i].name.indexOf("senderaction-") == 0 && inputs[i].value == 1){ inputs[i].checked = true; } } // End script From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jun 12 20:30:50 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 11:30:50 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help please? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: patrick wrote: > >The problem is that list members using xxxxx at hotmail addresses do not >receive the messages, not even in their spam folders? Hotmail (Windows Live Mail) is discarding messages from your server. This is something that you or the server admins will have to deal with Microsoft to fix. See , and note the middle paragraph under Sender services, tools, and issue submission which says If your e-mail complies with our service guidelines and you are still experiencing e-mail delivery problems that are not addressed in our FAQ, click here to contact support. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Scott.1Jones at ge.com Fri Jun 12 19:26:32 2009 From: Scott.1Jones at ge.com (Jones, Scott (GE Money, consultant)) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 13:26:32 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Who kicked the gate loose? Message-ID: Whence cometh the sudden flood of posts? Scott From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jun 12 20:39:24 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 11:39:24 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Move systems (UNCLASSIFIED) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: McCord, Mark C Mr CIV USA wrote: > >Classification: UNCLASSIFIED >Caveats: NONE > >I have mailman with postfix running on a 32-bit RHEL 5 system. I need to >move it to a new 64-bit system. Is there a way to do so without losing the >data, configurations, etc I already have? I have some Linux experience, >but this my first foray into managing a list server (or any type of mail >server). If you are currently running the RedHat rpm package, see the FAQ at for where to find things. What you need to do is install Mailman on the new server. Do not create any lists other than possibly the 'mailman' site list. Move the contents of the lists/ and archives/private/ directories (except maybe for the 'mailman/' and 'mailman.mbox/' directories) from the old server to the new. If the domain name isn't changing, that's all you need to do. If the domain is changing, see the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jun 12 20:42:35 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 11:42:35 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Who kicked the gate loose? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jones, Scott (GE Money, consultant) wrote: >Whence cometh the sudden flood of posts? New members are moderated by default. Sometimes the moderator (who isn't me) is attending to other parts of his life and isn't able to approve posts for a few days. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From terri at zone12.com Fri Jun 12 20:45:21 2009 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:45:21 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve all held? In-Reply-To: <4A329C51.9040900@zone12.com> References: <4A329C51.9040900@zone12.com> Message-ID: <4A32A241.7000203@zone12.com> Terri Oda wrote: > Mark Sapiro wrote: >> Alexx wrote: >>> how could I approve all messeages (around hundred of'em) held for >>> moderation due to one reason or another? I could manually approve some >>> of them with "confirm in subject and approved:password message", but >>> there are PLENTY of old ones held for more than 3 days in queue. >>> >>> I suppose it has to be done via /bin/withlist and a script, or is >>> there another solution? Here's a bookmarklet version of the script I posted earlier. Just bookmark this stupidly long string and then when you're viewing your admin page, click the bookmark to move every box over to "Accept" -- should simplify the task some. javascript:function%20approveAll(){var%20inputs=document.getElementsByTagName("input");for(var%20i=0;i Message-ID: Steve James wrote: > >What I want to do, is to create a mailing list, in order to send >newsletters >BUT Only the administrator and the moderator can send newsletters >I don't want that the members in the list, can send any info, via our >newsletter > >If they send any email, I would like to reject automatically the email. >( but not from the moderator or the Admin ) Answered in another thread at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Fri Jun 12 20:56:52 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 13:56:52 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] requesting copies of previous messages on a mailman list In-Reply-To: <88A6AFA61447AC4AB9F280FC6747F90815E54A20@na-exch1.in.tna.local> References: <88A6AFA61447AC4AB9F280FC6747F90815E54A20@na-exch1.in.tna.local> Message-ID: <4A32A4F4.8020107@riverviewtech.net> On 06/10/09 07:34, Spencer, Ross wrote: > I am an administrator of a mailman mailing list. I am struggling to > find any documentation on how to request a copy of a previously > posted message using mailman. I'm not aware of any ability in Mailman that will allow you make a request for a previously posted message. In fact, I believe that Mailman simply (in effect) splits / explodes any given message and re-sends it on to multiple recipients, with one of the recipients being an archive. To the best of my knowledge the archive simply appends the message to an mbox file (or similar) for later view via the web interface. I do not believe there is any concept of retrieving a given message out of the archive. Grant. . . . From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jun 12 21:08:33 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 12:08:33 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] requesting copies of previous messages on a mailmanlist In-Reply-To: <88A6AFA61447AC4AB9F280FC6747F90815E54A20@na-exch1.in.tna.local> Message-ID: Spencer, Ross wrote: >** Protective Marking : NOT PROTECTIVELY MARKED ** > >I am an administrator of a mailman mailing list. I am struggling to find >any documentation on how to request a copy of a previously posted >message using mailman. > > > >i.e. for new users to reply to existing threads. Does your list have archives? If so, and if the ARCHIVER_OBSCURES_EMAILADDRS setting has it's default value of Yes, the poster's address in the archived message is a mailto: link to the list with appropriate Subject= and In-Reply-To= query fragments for replying. There is an issue in that in Mailman versions prior to 2.1.10, there was a bug in that the In-Reply-To was the Message-ID of the prior post in thread if any rather than the current post. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jun 12 21:45:25 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 12:45:25 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] gmail marks mailman confirmation mail as spam... In-Reply-To: <200906081341.03500.repsons@gmail.com> References: <200906081341.03500.repsons@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A32B055.4080205@msapiro.net> K?lis Repsons wrote: > Hi, > maybe you have some recipe for making gmail treat confirmation mails as > non-spam? It just throws mail "confirm e8492f19d7c336341050..". Confirmations are sent with Precedence: bulk which may be part of the problem, but I just tested a confirmation to a gmail.com address and it went to the inbox. As far as I know, I have no special spam whitelisting in effect on this gmail account. The one thing that might be different is the server I sent this from has VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes in mm_cfg.py which changes the subject from confirm 6e4cfe0ab337729574b1a643a231569ef0ef59ab to Your confirmation is required to join the LISTNAME mailing list and the From: from LISTNAME-request at example.com to LISTNAME-confirm+6e4cfe0ab337729574b1a643a231569ef0ef59ab at example.com So you might try setting VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes if your MTA can properly deliver to an address such as above. That may help. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From kremels at kreme.com Fri Jun 12 22:12:17 2009 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:12:17 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administrivia Message-ID: <29A551D1-118A-4394-B39B-3E8F9B10ED96@kreme.com> I have Administrivia turned on for a list, but people keep sending subscribe requests to the list address (because they are morons, I guess, I send them the subscribe address). Anyway, the administrivia setting does not pick up these messages and I end up with them in the admin queue and end up manually adding them to the subscribers list and purging the message. Can I get administrivia to process subscribe request? message will come in with the single word subject of "subscribe" sometimes with a single word body of "subscribe" or sometimes no body. The help says" Administrivia tests will check postings to see whether it's really meant as an administrative request (like subscribe, unsubscribe, etc), and will add it to the the administrative requests queue, notifying the administrator of the new request, in the process. but at least on my system, this doesn't seem to happen. -- Q: Does anyone know how many LOCs were in the Space Shuttle' codebase? A: 45. It was written in perl (paraphrased Slashdot discussion) From brad at fineby.me.uk Fri Jun 12 22:32:51 2009 From: brad at fineby.me.uk (Brad Rogers) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:32:51 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administrivia In-Reply-To: <29A551D1-118A-4394-B39B-3E8F9B10ED96@kreme.com> References: <29A551D1-118A-4394-B39B-3E8F9B10ED96@kreme.com> Message-ID: <20090612213251.12442f4d@abydos.stargate.org.uk> On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:12:17 -0600 LuKreme wrote: Hello LuKreme, > The help says" Administrivia tests will check postings to see whether > it's really meant as an administrative request (like subscribe, > unsubscribe, etc), and will add it to the the administrative requests > queue, notifying the administrator of the new request, in the process. > but at least on my system, this doesn't seem to happen. I asked a very similar question a few months back, and got a very comprehensive answer from Mark Sapiro. In my case, it was that the people attempting to (un)subscribe were sending their requests with a plain text *and* an HTML part. The combination of the two parts added up to far more than the allowed number of lines for a message to be treated as administrivia, s was passed on to the list processing software, which promptly strips the HTML part, leaving just the one word message that arrived at the list. Is it possible that the same thing is happening on your list? -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" This is the fifty first state of the USA Heartland - The The -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 489 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brad at python.org Sat Jun 13 00:10:23 2009 From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:10:23 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Who kicked the gate loose? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A32D24F.2050908@python.org> Jones, Scott (GE Money, consultant) wrote: > Whence cometh the sudden flood of posts? I have been remiss in my duties as moderator for this list, and today I finally got the chance to try to catch up. I'll try to stay more current in the future. -- Brad Knowles Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jun 13 00:11:30 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:11:30 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administrivia In-Reply-To: <20090612213251.12442f4d@abydos.stargate.org.uk> Message-ID: Brad Rogers wrote: > >On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:12:17 -0600 >LuKreme wrote: > >Hello LuKreme, > >> The help says" Administrivia tests will check postings to see whether =20 >> it's really meant as an administrative request (like subscribe, =20 >> unsubscribe, etc), and will add it to the the administrative requests =20 >> queue, notifying the administrator of the new request, in the process. >> but at least on my system, this doesn't seem to happen. > >I asked a very similar question a few months back, and got a very >comprehensive answer from Mark Sapiro. Which can be found at >In my case, it was that the people attempting to (un)subscribe were >sending their requests with a plain text *and* an HTML part. The >combination of the two parts added up to far more than the allowed >number of lines for a message to be treated as administrivia, s was >passed on to the list processing software, which promptly strips the >HTML part, leaving just the one word message that arrived at the list. > >Is it possible that the same thing is happening on your list? Note that for the above scenario, you can rearrange the pipeline to put MimeDel before Hold so that both administrivia and "too big" checks are done after content filtering. To do this, put # # Put MimeDel ahead of Hold so "too big" is based on content filtered # message. # GLOBAL_PIPELINE.remove('MimeDel') GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(GLOBAL_PIPELINE.index('Hold'), 'MimeDel') in mm_cfg.py. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From ek at onlinecorp.com Fri Jun 12 21:43:40 2009 From: ek at onlinecorp.com (Elliott Kayne) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:43:40 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sending to the list Message-ID: <00bc01c9eb96$162735e0$4275a1a0$@com> I have been using your program for a while, and just realized no one is getting my emails when I send to the list?? I just ran some tests to my yahoo account and I am not getting it? When I send to my list, I get one, but non of my subscribers seem to be getting my emails? WHY How do I send to them? Thanks Online Corporation of America Hosting, Site Design, Application Development ========================================= Sales:1-570-686-2300 http://www.OnlineCorp.com ========================================= QUICKCART.COM ADVANCED E-COMMERCE SHOPPING SYSTEM http://www.QuickCart.com ========================================= AAA HOST --- $5 Hosting PHP, MYSQL, OS-Commerce, PHP MYSQL http://www.aaahost.com ========================================= From zhang.zhengquan at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 19:50:38 2009 From: zhang.zhengquan at gmail.com (Zhengquan Zhang) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 12:50:38 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration to new server, new domain name In-Reply-To: <93532fbc0906090833i4bf63b7ey80952546f429e12f@mail.gmail.com> References: <93532fbc0906090833i4bf63b7ey80952546f429e12f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090612175038.GA17492@m364d1.ece.northwestern.edu> On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 11:33:11AM -0400, Duane Winner wrote: > Hello, > > Can anybody point me to a document or explain to me what is necessary to > complete these steps? I am in the same position and hope somebody can point to a link to a step by step tutorial or something like that. -- Zhengquan From stephen at xemacs.org Sat Jun 13 12:03:53 2009 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 19:03:53 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] openID enabled mailman In-Reply-To: <68779e050906071014s65115496ncf94b2c675efccb9@mail.gmail.com> References: <68779e050906071014s65115496ncf94b2c675efccb9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87iqj0wiuu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Malveeka Tewari writes: > 2. Sign in with existing openID login for your subscription > > *1. Enable/Disable openID login for your subscription* *account* > For enabling and diabling the openID feature, the users login their > subscribed accounts as they do now for changing any of the subcription > options. > On this page if they enable the openID feature, they recieve an automated > reply with their openID identifier. > > The password for the openID identifier is the same as that for the > subscription accounts. If they change their subscription passwords, their > openID password gets changed too. I don't understand what you're trying to do. The whole point of open ID is delegating authorization to a third party. If you want, you can provide that service as well, but once you've enabled OpenID, you shouldn't need a password for Mailman. In fact, the Mailman password should be disabled, as it is certainly less secure than OpenID at this point in time. > I want to know if there's already an openID enabled version of > mailman available The OpenID project has OpenID-enabled Mailman lists, but according to Brad Knowles in the process of adapting Mailman to OpenID they broke a lot of other features, and integrating their changes is non-trivial. From malveeka at gmail.com Sat Jun 13 12:43:26 2009 From: malveeka at gmail.com (Malveeka Tewari) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 12:43:26 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] openID enabled mailman In-Reply-To: <87iqj0wiuu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <68779e050906071014s65115496ncf94b2c675efccb9@mail.gmail.com> <87iqj0wiuu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <68779e050906130343q5ba71fa4r87b5c43f3a438aaf@mail.gmail.com> Hi Stephen Thanks for your reply. W want to implement the OpenID Provider for the mailman set up we are running on our servers. The idea is to use OpenID with mailman to provide single sign on for our other user accounts like our wiki etc. Our focus is on providing Single Sign On but we do not want to delegate authentication to a third party. Hence we want to implement OpenID provider for our Mailman service. and OpenID relying party for our wiki etc. Now for the OpenID provider we may choose to have new passwords or use the mailman passwords. For ease of users, we want to use the mailman passwords for the OpenID provider. I hope I have conveyed what I am trying to do. I will be thankful for any suggestions Thanks Malveeka On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Malveeka Tewari writes: > > > 2. Sign in with existing openID login for your subscription > > > > *1. Enable/Disable openID login for your subscription* *account* > > For enabling and diabling the openID feature, the users login their > > subscribed accounts as they do now for changing any of the subcription > > options. > > On this page if they enable the openID feature, they recieve an > automated > > reply with their openID identifier. > > > > The password for the openID identifier is the same as that for the > > subscription accounts. If they change their subscription passwords, > their > > openID password gets changed too. > > I don't understand what you're trying to do. The whole point of open > ID is delegating authorization to a third party. If you want, you can > provide that service as well, but once you've enabled OpenID, you > shouldn't need a password for Mailman. In fact, the Mailman password > should be disabled, as it is certainly less secure than OpenID at this > point in time. > > > I want to know if there's already an openID enabled version of > > mailman available > > The OpenID project has OpenID-enabled Mailman lists, but according to > Brad Knowles in the process of adapting Mailman to OpenID they broke a > lot of other features, and integrating their changes is non-trivial. > From stephen at xemacs.org Sat Jun 13 13:37:51 2009 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:37:51 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] openID enabled mailman In-Reply-To: <68779e050906130343q5ba71fa4r87b5c43f3a438aaf@mail.gmail.com> References: <68779e050906071014s65115496ncf94b2c675efccb9@mail.gmail.com> <87iqj0wiuu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <68779e050906130343q5ba71fa4r87b5c43f3a438aaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87hbykwei8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Malveeka Tewari writes: > Our focus is on providing Single Sign On but we do not want to delegate > authentication to a third party. Hence we want to implement OpenID provider > for our Mailman service. I don't think this is a good idea. Mailman is designed to deliver single messages to multiple parties, which it does very well, and to manage member lists, which it does tolerably well for many purposes. It is not designed to keep secrets. You may not now particularly care, but it could be very annoying later if you decide you want more security and need to switch your system. Better to put your provider in a separate place from Mailman, and have Mailman rely on and trust only your provider. You could do them on the same host if necessary but in the long run you might want to have the provider on a dedicated host, depending on how serious you become about security. > and OpenID relying partyOD for our wiki etc. > > Now for the OpenID provider we may choose to have new passwords or use the > mailman passwords. For ease of users, we want to use the mailman passwords > for the OpenID provider. Again, Mailman is not very secure. In the default configuration, passwords are mailed out in cleartext over non-secure channels (and even so-called secure mail is pretty tricky -- it's much easier to secure a web application). The passwords are also stored in the clear. This means that if you want to set up OpenID for existing users by transferring their passwords, it should be possible (I don't know how offhand, though). I don't recommend that, either. Normally, people don't care that much as there's not much damage that can be done via a mailing list, except spamming, and most lists have additional defenses against that. But you plan to rely on these passwords to secure multiple services, making the value of cracking one that much higher. I would ask my own users to set new passwords in this situation. Of course, all these issues depend on a lot of factors. You may have better security than the default for the Internet in place, or much more careful users, etc. From mark at msapiro.net Sat Jun 13 16:08:41 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 07:08:41 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sending to the list In-Reply-To: <00bc01c9eb96$162735e0$4275a1a0$@com> Message-ID: Elliott Kayne wrote: > >When I send to my list, I get one, but non of my subscribers seem to be >getting my emails? Assuming your list is properly set up and the members are regular (non-digest) members and their delivery is not disabled, Mailman should be sending posts to them. What is the message you receive? Is it your post or a notice of some kind possibly containing your post? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From malveeka at gmail.com Sat Jun 13 16:16:15 2009 From: malveeka at gmail.com (Malveeka Tewari) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 16:16:15 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] openID enabled mailman In-Reply-To: <4A2C2C5A.9080709@shub-internet.org> References: <68779e050906071014s65115496ncf94b2c675efccb9@mail.gmail.com> <4A2C2C5A.9080709@shub-internet.org> Message-ID: <68779e050906130716g2efc888cu1b219ce7de10c7e7@mail.gmail.com> Hi Brad, Can I also take a look at the code that the OpenID folks sent you? It'll be great if you can send me any pointers to that code. I asked on their mailing lists too but haven't received any promising response. Looking at the code might give me an idea about how to start implementing openID support fr the mailman setup I am running, Thanks Malveeka On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Brad Knowles wrote: > on 6/7/09 12:14 PM, Malveeka Tewari said: > > I want to know if there's already an openID enabled version of >> mailman available And what files would I need to make changes to >> include openID support in mailman >> > > The OpenID project uses Mailman themselves, and they have hacked it to > allow OpenID logins. They even shared with us the code that they have. I > took a look at trying to bring this into the main codebase, and I was not > able to figure out how to do that -- when they put in OpenID, they broke > everything else, and I could never figure out how to get the two to co-exist > at the same time. > > IMO, this may be a better question to ask on their mailing lists, or to ask > the people who maintain their mailing lists. > > -- > Brad Knowles > LinkedIn Profile: > From kremels at kreme.com Sat Jun 13 18:22:47 2009 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 10:22:47 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administrivia In-Reply-To: <20090612213251.12442f4d@abydos.stargate.org.uk> References: <29A551D1-118A-4394-B39B-3E8F9B10ED96@kreme.com> <20090612213251.12442f4d@abydos.stargate.org.uk> Message-ID: <1A96C0A5-7F88-4975-9ED8-6DF739E6D0CC@kreme.com> On 12-Jun-2009, at 14:32, Brad Rogers wrote: > In my case, it was that the people attempting to (un)subscribe were > sending their requests with a plain text *and* an HTML part. The > combination of the two parts added up to far more than the allowed > number of lines for a message to be treated as administrivia, s was > passed on to the list processing software, which promptly strips the > HTML part, leaving just the one word message that arrived at the list. > > Is it possible that the same thing is happening on your list? Yeah, that sounds likely. I'll check on that 'fix' Mark posted. -- Rule #5: Get Kirsten Dunst Wet From brad at shub-internet.org Sat Jun 13 19:25:08 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 12:25:08 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] openID enabled mailman In-Reply-To: <68779e050906130716g2efc888cu1b219ce7de10c7e7@mail.gmail.com> References: <68779e050906071014s65115496ncf94b2c675efccb9@mail.gmail.com> <4A2C2C5A.9080709@shub-internet.org> <68779e050906130716g2efc888cu1b219ce7de10c7e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A33E0F4.7020508@shub-internet.org> on 6/13/09 9:16 AM, Malveeka Tewari said: > Can I also take a look at the code that the OpenID folks sent you? > It'll be great if you can send me any pointers to that code. > I asked on their mailing lists too but haven't received any promising > response. They never made any attempt to build an OpenID provider in Mailman. All they did was hack in some OpenID Relyer code, and in the process they broke any other kind of authentication. Mailman is the wrong place to put an OpenID provider. That needs to go somewhere else, and then you can put in code that allows Mailman to be an OpenID Relyer. > Looking at the code might give me an idea about how to start implementing > openID support fr the mailman setup I am running, I really don't think so. They and you seem to have very different ideas as to where the OpenID provider code should go. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jun 14 17:12:54 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 08:12:54 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] gmail marks mailman confirmation mail as spam... In-Reply-To: <200906141148.43933.repsons@gmail.com> References: <200906081341.03500.repsons@gmail.com> <4A32B055.4080205@msapiro.net> <200906141148.43933.repsons@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A351376.8070902@msapiro.net> K?rlis Repsons wrote: > On Friday 12 June 2009 19:45:25 you wrote: >> >> The one thing that might be different is the server I sent this from has >> >> VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes > I set in that way, but still its in spam folder... Strange, how could your > message get into the inbox, do we have different configs, you've forgot about > some "not spam" marking or what else? There are various things that could be different. My server publishes SPF records. That may make a difference. My server may have a better reputation with Google/gmail than yours. See the FAQ at . This is something you'll have to pursue with Google/gmail. > And there is one more thing bothering me: look there: > http://www.trikata.com/pipermail/test/2009-June/thread.html > same word "nog?d?t" was posted in all of the cases, where those terrible > characters appear! Maybe you know whats wrong? The string "=?utf-8?q?_nog=C4=81d=C4=81t?=" is an RFC2047 encoding of the string " nog?d?t" The actual raw header in your archive (at least for one of these) contains three RFC 2047 encoded pieces. The first is "=?utf-8?q?skatamies=2C_cik_ilgi_google_m=C4=93=C4=A3ina_=3D?=" and decodes to "skatamies, cik ilgi google m??ina =". The second is "=?utf-8?b?P3V0Zi04P3E/X25vZz1DND04MWQ9QzQ9ODF0Pz0sIGthZCBuZXZhci4u?=" and decodes to "?utf-8?q?_nog=C4=81d=C4=81t?=, kad nevar..". The last is "=?utf-8?q?=2E?=" and decodes to "." If I had to guess, I'd say that the original subject got mis-folded by something and the initial "=" of "=?utf-8?q?_nog=C4=81d=C4=81t?=" got separated from the rest by a line continuation, and then the remaining "?utf-8?q?_nog=C4=81d=C4=81t?=" was treated as text rather than an endoded string The problem may be with the MUA that composed the mail or it may be with Mailman's adding the subject_prefix. I think I'd need to see the raw message as sent to the list to know for sure. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jun 14 19:12:22 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 10:12:22 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Garbled headers - was: gmail marks mailman confirmation mail as spam... In-Reply-To: <4A351376.8070902@msapiro.net> References: <200906081341.03500.repsons@gmail.com> <4A32B055.4080205@msapiro.net> <200906141148.43933.repsons@gmail.com> <4A351376.8070902@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <4A352F76.4020309@msapiro.net> Mark Sapiro wrote: > > The problem may be with the MUA that composed the mail or it may be with > Mailman's adding the subject_prefix. I think I'd need to see the raw > message as sent to the list to know for sure. K?rlis forwarded an email to me off list. It's salient feature is the subject header Subject: skatamies, cik ilgi google =?utf-8?q?m=C4=93=C4=A3ina?= =?utf-8?q?_nog=C4=81d=C4=81t?=, kad nevar... which is wrapped here but was all one line in the original. I have verified that there is a problem in the underlying Python email package with headers containing multiple RFC 2047 encoded words whether or not they are separated by non-encoded text. It appears the only the first encoded word is properly decoded resulting in garbled headers in the archive and digests and in messages too if the subject is prefixed. I will follow up when I know more. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jun 14 19:39:32 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 10:39:32 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Garbled headers - was: gmail marks mailman confirmation mail as spam... In-Reply-To: <200906141718.07047.repsons@gmail.com> References: <200906081341.03500.repsons@gmail.com> <4A351376.8070902@msapiro.net> <4A352F76.4020309@msapiro.net> <200906141718.07047.repsons@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A3535D4.507@msapiro.net> K?rlis Repsons wrote: > On Sunday 14 June 2009 17:12:22 you wrote: >> K?rlis forwarded an email to me off list. It's salient feature is the >> subject header >> >> Subject: skatamies, cik ilgi google =?utf-8?q?m=C4=93=C4=A3ina?= >> =?utf-8?q?_nog=C4=81d=C4=81t?=, kad nevar... >> >> which is wrapped here but was all one line in the original. I have >> verified that there is a problem in the underlying Python email package >> with headers containing multiple RFC 2047 encoded words whether or not >> they are separated by non-encoded text. Actually, the problem is not multiple encoded words. It is the fact that Python's email.header.decode_header() function doesn't recognize an RFC 2047 encoded word as such if the trailing "?=" is not followed by whitespace or the end of the string - here it is followed by a ",". I think this is a bug in decode_header(), but I won't have time to look further at this until tomorrow. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From repsons at gmail.com Sun Jun 14 13:48:43 2009 From: repsons at gmail.com (=?utf-8?q?K=C4=81rlis_Repsons?=) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:48:43 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] gmail marks mailman confirmation mail as spam... In-Reply-To: <4A32B055.4080205@msapiro.net> References: <200906081341.03500.repsons@gmail.com> <4A32B055.4080205@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <200906141148.43933.repsons@gmail.com> On Friday 12 June 2009 19:45:25 you wrote: > K?lis Repsons wrote: > > Hi, > > maybe you have some recipe for making gmail treat confirmation mails as > > non-spam? It just throws mail "confirm e8492f19d7c336341050..". > > Confirmations are sent with > > Precedence: bulk > > which may be part of the problem, but I just tested a confirmation to a > gmail.com address and it went to the inbox. As far as I know, I have no > special spam whitelisting in effect on this gmail account. > > The one thing that might be different is the server I sent this from has > > VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes I set in that way, but still its in spam folder... Strange, how could your message get into the inbox, do we have different configs, you've forgot about some "not spam" marking or what else? And there is one more thing bothering me: look there: http://www.trikata.com/pipermail/test/2009-June/thread.html same word "nog?d?t" was posted in all of the cases, where those terrible characters appear! Maybe you know whats wrong? -- K?rlis Repsons -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From repsons at gmail.com Sun Jun 14 19:18:06 2009 From: repsons at gmail.com (=?utf-8?q?K=C4=81rlis_Repsons?=) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:18:06 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Garbled headers - was: gmail marks mailman confirmation mail as spam... In-Reply-To: <4A352F76.4020309@msapiro.net> References: <200906081341.03500.repsons@gmail.com> <4A351376.8070902@msapiro.net> <4A352F76.4020309@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <200906141718.07047.repsons@gmail.com> On Sunday 14 June 2009 17:12:22 you wrote: > Mark Sapiro wrote: > > The problem may be with the MUA that composed the mail or it may be with > > Mailman's adding the subject_prefix. I think I'd need to see the raw > > message as sent to the list to know for sure. > > K?rlis forwarded an email to me off list. It's salient feature is the > subject header > > Subject: skatamies, cik ilgi google =?utf-8?q?m=C4=93=C4=A3ina?= > =?utf-8?q?_nog=C4=81d=C4=81t?=, kad nevar... > > which is wrapped here but was all one line in the original. I have > verified that there is a problem in the underlying Python email package > with headers containing multiple RFC 2047 encoded words whether or not > they are separated by non-encoded text. > > It appears the only the first encoded word is properly decoded resulting > in garbled headers in the archive and digests and in messages too if > the subject is prefixed. I will follow up when I know more. Thank you for your interest, I'll be waiting. -- K?rlis Repsons -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jun 15 04:36:24 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:36:24 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Garbled headers - was: gmail marks mailman confirmation mail as spam... In-Reply-To: <4A3535D4.507@msapiro.net> References: <200906081341.03500.repsons@gmail.com> <4A351376.8070902@msapiro.net> <4A352F76.4020309@msapiro.net> <200906141718.07047.repsons@gmail.com> <4A3535D4.507@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <4A35B3A8.8080609@msapiro.net> Mark Sapiro wrote: > K?rlis Repsons wrote: >> On Sunday 14 June 2009 17:12:22 you wrote: > >>> K?rlis forwarded an email to me off list. It's salient feature is the >>> subject header >>> >>> Subject: skatamies, cik ilgi google =?utf-8?q?m=C4=93=C4=A3ina?= >>> =?utf-8?q?_nog=C4=81d=C4=81t?=, kad nevar... >>> >>> which is wrapped here but was all one line in the original. I have >>> verified that there is a problem in the underlying Python email package >>> with headers containing multiple RFC 2047 encoded words whether or not >>> they are separated by non-encoded text. > > > Actually, the problem is not multiple encoded words. It is the fact that > Python's email.header.decode_header() function doesn't recognize an RFC > 2047 encoded word as such if the trailing "?=" is not followed by > whitespace or the end of the string - here it is followed by a ",". > > I think this is a bug in decode_header(), but I won't have time to look > further at this until tomorrow. I think there is a minor bug in decode_header() in that it won't recognize a RFC 2047 encoded word in a comment if the encoded word is not separated by whitespace from the ")" that terminates the comment. However, this is the only place where an encoded word need not be followed by whitespace or the end of the header. The Subject: header above is non-compliant in two respects. It is too long. RFC 2047 section 2 says in part: While there is no limit to the length of a multiple-line header field, each line of a header field that contains one or more 'encoded-word's is limited to 76 characters. However, decode_header will accept it anyway and do the right thing. The real problem is item (1) in section 5 of the RFC says in part: Ordinary ASCII text and 'encoded-word's may appear together in the same header field. However, an 'encoded-word' that appears in a header field defined as '*text' MUST be separated from any adjacent 'encoded-word' or 'text' by 'linear-white-space'. The header above does not comply with this. Instead of being Subject: skatamies, cik ilgi google =?utf-8?q?m=C4=93=C4=A3ina?= =?utf-8?q?_nog=C4=81d=C4=81t?=, kad nevar... (all on one line), it should be Subject: skatamies, cik ilgi google =?utf-8?q?m=C4=93=C4=A3ina?= =?utf-8?q?_nog=C4=81d=C4=81t,?= kad nevar... I.e., it should be folded so no part is longer than 76 characters, but more importantly for this, the "," near the end should be part of the encoded word rather than following the "?=" with no intervening whitespace. This is a problem with the MUA (mail client) that encoded the Subject: header in the first place. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From stephen at xemacs.org Mon Jun 15 05:47:12 2009 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:47:12 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Garbled headers - was: gmail marks mailman confirmation mail as spam... In-Reply-To: <4A35B3A8.8080609@msapiro.net> References: <200906081341.03500.repsons@gmail.com> <4A351376.8070902@msapiro.net> <4A352F76.4020309@msapiro.net> <200906141718.07047.repsons@gmail.com> <4A3535D4.507@msapiro.net> <4A35B3A8.8080609@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <871vpmcg5b.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Mark Sapiro writes: > I think there is a minor bug in decode_header() in that it won't > recognize a RFC 2047 encoded word in a comment if the encoded word is > not separated by whitespace from the ")" that terminates the comment. > However, this is the only place where an encoded word need not be > followed by whitespace or the end of the header. Indeed that's a bug. I gather that you're saying that this bug is not the cause of the OP's problem, though? > The Subject: header above is non-compliant in two respects. It is too > long. [...] However, decode_header will accept it anyway and do > the right thing. As it should, according to the Postel Principle. Anyway, IIRC the length limit is a SHOULD NOT, not a MUST NOT, right? > real problem is item (1) in section 5 of the RFC says in part: > > Ordinary ASCII text and 'encoded-word's may appear together in the > same header field. However, an 'encoded-word' that appears in a > header field defined as '*text' MUST be separated from any adjacent > 'encoded-word' or 'text' by 'linear-white-space'. > > The header above does not comply with this. Agreed, but I think that by default[1] email should try to parse this header as the user intended it. It's not like encoded-words are that easy to confuse with intended text; it's unlikely that changing 'linear-white-space' above to 'linear-white-space or specials' would harm anyone. > This is a problem with the MUA (mail client) that encoded the Subject: > header in the first place. Agreed, but I think following the Postel Principle here is likely to do less harm than adhering strictly to the RFC. That said, I'm not in a position to contribute code, and this is a pretty invasive change, so the user is unlikely to see a version of Mailman that handles this any time soon. They are likely to have more luck switching clients. Footnotes: [1] Ie, there should be an option to be strict. From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jun 15 19:17:09 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 10:17:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Garbled headers - was: gmail marks mailman confirmation mail as spam... In-Reply-To: <871vpmcg5b.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <200906081341.03500.repsons@gmail.com> <4A351376.8070902@msapiro.net> <4A352F76.4020309@msapiro.net> <200906141718.07047.repsons@gmail.com> <4A3535D4.507@msapiro.net> <4A35B3A8.8080609@msapiro.net> <871vpmcg5b.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <4A368215.5080002@msapiro.net> I am trying to move this thread to email-sig at python.org since the underlying issue is in the email package. Further, since as of Mailman 2.1.12, we no longer install a Mailman specific version of the email package, it really has to be addressed in the email package. Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Mark Sapiro writes: > > > I think there is a minor bug in decode_header() in that it won't > > recognize a RFC 2047 encoded word in a comment if the encoded word is > > not separated by whitespace from the ")" that terminates the comment. > > However, this is the only place where an encoded word need not be > > followed by whitespace or the end of the header. > > Indeed that's a bug. I gather that you're saying that this bug is not > the cause of the OP's problem, though? Correct. > > The Subject: header above is non-compliant in two respects. It is too > > long. [...] However, decode_header will accept it anyway and do > > the right thing. > > As it should, according to the Postel Principle. Anyway, IIRC the > length limit is a SHOULD NOT, not a MUST NOT, right? The RFC (8|28|53)22 limits are MUST BE <= 998 and SHOULD BE <= 78. RFC 2047 seems to want to impose stricter limits on encoded words, but unfortunately does not use the defined terms MUST and SHOULD. Section 2 says in part: An 'encoded-word' may not be more than 75 characters long, including 'charset', 'encoding', 'encoded-text', and delimiters. If it is desirable to encode more text than will fit in an 'encoded-word' of 75 characters, multiple 'encoded-word's (separated by CRLF SPACE) may be used. While there is no limit to the length of a multiple-line header field, each line of a header field that contains one or more 'encoded-word's is limited to 76 characters. so it is not clear whether these are 'recommendations' or 'requirements'. In any case, email.header.decode_header() is not enforcing any limits so we are being generous in what we accept in this respect. > > real problem is item (1) in section 5 of the RFC says in part: > > > > Ordinary ASCII text and 'encoded-word's may appear together in the > > same header field. However, an 'encoded-word' that appears in a > > header field defined as '*text' MUST be separated from any adjacent > > 'encoded-word' or 'text' by 'linear-white-space'. > > > > The header above does not comply with this. > > Agreed, but I think that by default[1] email should try to parse this > header as the user intended it. It's not like encoded-words are that > easy to confuse with intended text; it's unlikely that changing > 'linear-white-space' above to 'linear-white-space or specials' would > harm anyone. I fully agree. There is a regexp (ecre) in email/header.py that ends with the lookahead assertion "(?=[ \t]|$)". Even in "strict mode", I think the lookahead needs to accept ")" as well as space and tab, but I think by default, it should just be removed. > > This is a problem with the MUA (mail client) that encoded the Subject: > > header in the first place. > > Agreed, but I think following the Postel Principle here is likely to > do less harm than adhering strictly to the RFC. I agree here too, and note that some MUAs (all three I tried including mutt and Thunderbird) decode the original header as intended. > That said, I'm not in a position to contribute code, and this is a > pretty invasive change, so the user is unlikely to see a version of > Mailman that handles this any time soon. They are likely to have more > luck switching clients. > > Footnotes: > [1] Ie, there should be an option to be strict. > > -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From nabble at bryanharrison.com Mon Jun 15 06:18:05 2009 From: nabble at bryanharrison.com (rbryanh) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domains for Mailing Lists in MailMan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <24028643.post@talk.nabble.com> Gordon, I happened to come across your post while trying to accomplish exactly the same thing: mailman virtual domains under OS X Server 10.5.7. Fun, isn't it? I've taken the step of downloading and installing the standard, current mailman distribution today, and have successfully compiled a configuration that mimics Apple's various installation locations. Now let's see if I can get it to run, or accomplish anything useful. Right now it's startup endless respawns, with no useful error messages in any log I can find. But perhaps we can assist each other. I'm expert on neither Postfix nor Mailman, but may have to become one by the end of the week. -Bryan -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Virtual-Domains-for-Mailing-Lists-in-MailMan-tp23826232p24028643.html Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jun 16 01:09:59 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:09:59 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domains for Mailing Lists in MailMan In-Reply-To: <24028643.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: rbryanh wrote: > >I've taken the step of downloading and installing the standard, current >mailman distribution today, and have successfully compiled a configuration >that mimics Apple's various installation locations. See the FAQ at for information on installing a standard Mailman distribution on Mac OS X. >Now let's see if I can get it to run, or accomplish anything useful. Right >now it's startup endless respawns, with no useful error messages in any log >I can find. Mailman's logs are in the logs/ directory in the 'var-prefix' directory. There should be useful messages in the 'error' and 'qrunner' logs. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jun 16 02:38:07 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:38:07 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domains for Mailing Lists in MailMan In-Reply-To: <987CD7E4-C0C1-425A-BC4D-B438C793003E@bryanharrison.com> Message-ID: Bryan Harrison wrote: >P.S. "error" is empty, and "qrunner" says > >Jun 15 16:01:12 2009 (7287) BounceRunner qrunner started. >Jun 15 16:01:13 2009 (7293) RetryRunner qrunner started. >Jun 15 16:01:13 2009 (7288) CommandRunner qrunner started. >Jun 15 16:01:13 2009 (7292) VirginRunner qrunner started. >Jun 15 16:01:13 2009 (7286) ArchRunner qrunner started. >Jun 15 16:01:13 2009 (7290) NewsRunner qrunner started. >Jun 15 16:01:13 2009 (7289) IncomingRunner qrunner started. >Jun 15 16:01:13 2009 (7291) OutgoingRunner qrunner started. This doesn't look like "Right now it's startup endless respawns" to me. What did you mean by that? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From jeffrey at goldmark.org Tue Jun 16 05:22:39 2009 From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 22:22:39 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I enforce secure admin passwords? In-Reply-To: <200906032133.n53LXiUN030238@mailout.pcc.edu> References: <200906021702.n52H2uxK009505@mailout.pcc.edu> <877hzuhyua.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <200906032133.n53LXiUN030238@mailout.pcc.edu> Message-ID: <26DE927A-22AA-4F58-A9BD-3B00D72AFAEB@goldmark.org> On Jun 3, 2009, at 4:33 PM, Kirke Johnson wrote: > What is bothering me is list owners who want to use their initials > or the list name as list owner passwords. I feel like kind of a > sitting duck when we can't see the passwords they have chosen and > have no way to enforce decent choices. This isn't a mailman problem as you well know. And I don't think that the solution is to have mailman test for weak passwords. The real, long term solution is to encourage people to use good password management systems. The best password management system I've seen is sadly OS X only: 1Password. But there are also the password management systems built into web browsers, which are better than nothing. -j -- Jeffrey Goldberg http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/ From barry at list.org Wed Jun 17 13:13:46 2009 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:13:46 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] openID enabled mailman In-Reply-To: <4A33E0F4.7020508@shub-internet.org> References: <68779e050906071014s65115496ncf94b2c675efccb9@mail.gmail.com> <4A2C2C5A.9080709@shub-internet.org> <68779e050906130716g2efc888cu1b219ce7de10c7e7@mail.gmail.com> <4A33E0F4.7020508@shub-internet.org> Message-ID: <7725B8CE-9039-426F-972B-23749ED86087@list.org> On Jun 13, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Brad Knowles wrote: > Mailman is the wrong place to put an OpenID provider. That needs to > go somewhere else, and then you can put in code that allows Mailman > to be an OpenID Relyer. Well put, and I could not agree more. What would be very helpful would be adding the necessary support to Mailman 2.2 and 3 so that it can be a relying party, and perhaps we can finally deprecate or kill off the stupid user passwords. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 832 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bryan at bryanharrison.com Tue Jun 16 01:51:48 2009 From: bryan at bryanharrison.com (Bryan Harrison) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:51:48 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domains for Mailing Lists in MailMan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <987CD7E4-C0C1-425A-BC4D-B438C793003E@bryanharrison.com> P.S. "error" is empty, and "qrunner" says Jun 15 16:01:12 2009 (7287) BounceRunner qrunner started. Jun 15 16:01:13 2009 (7293) RetryRunner qrunner started. Jun 15 16:01:13 2009 (7288) CommandRunner qrunner started. Jun 15 16:01:13 2009 (7292) VirginRunner qrunner started. Jun 15 16:01:13 2009 (7286) ArchRunner qrunner started. Jun 15 16:01:13 2009 (7290) NewsRunner qrunner started. Jun 15 16:01:13 2009 (7289) IncomingRunner qrunner started. Jun 15 16:01:13 2009 (7291) OutgoingRunner qrunner started. From bryan at bryanharrison.com Tue Jun 16 01:50:19 2009 From: bryan at bryanharrison.com (Bryan Harrison) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:50:19 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domains for Mailing Lists in MailMan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mark, Thank you. I've found the resources you recommended helpful, but am stymied nonetheless. I'm bright but not expert with Postfix or Mailman, and have been butting my head against this for days. As a test, I'm trying to install mailman on the server gilded- bat.laughingboot.net, and create functioning lists mailman at laughingboot.net and galaxy at gurgitate.org. Virtual domains are humming along nicely in both Apache and Postfix. Mailman's processes run and I can browse the interface site, but all my tests now bounce with: <"|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman post galaxy"@gilded- bat.laughingboot.net>: data format error. Command output: |/usr/share/mailman/mail/ mailman post galaxy: Bad protocol If you're feeling particularly saintly, I've P.S.'d install_mailman.sh below ? the very rough script I'm using to install and configure mailman. Relevant lines from main.cf are virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual,hash:/var/mailman/data/ aliases,hash:/var/mailman/data/virtual-mailman virtual_mailbox_domains = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual_domains mm_cfg.pys looks like this: # Include Defaults: from Defaults import * # Site-specific overrides: MTA = 'Postfix' DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'laughingboot.net' DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'gilded-bat.laughingboot.net' add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) add_virtualhost('gurgitate.org', 'gurgitate.org') POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = 'gurgitate.org' DEFAULT_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE = 10000 # KB I'm running OS X Server 10.5.7. I'll burn an SUV to the Gods on your behalf if you care to help me out. Best regards, Bryan # !/bin/tcsh # INSTALL MAILMAN TEST # Last Updated: 2009-06-15 # Assumes prior installation of Xcode. serveradmin stop mail /usr/share/mailman/bin/mailmanctl stop rm -Rf /var/mailman/* rm -Rf /usr/share/mailman/* mkdir -p -m ug=rwx,o=rx /var/mailman mkdir -p -m a+rx,g+ws /usr/share/mailman chown _mailman:_mailman /var/mailman chown _mailman:_mailman /usr/share/mailman chmod -R 2777 /var/mailman chmod -R 2777 /usr/share/mailman mkdir -p /Library/TemporaryItems cd /Library/TemporaryItems curl -O http://superb-west.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/mailman/mailman-2.1.12.tgz tar -xzf mailman-2.1.12.tgz cd mailman-2.1.12 # Pick One, anyone, none of them work: # ./configure --prefix=/usr/share/mailman --with-var-prefix=/var/ mailman --with-username=_mailman --with-groupname=_mailman --with-cgi- gid=_www # ./configure --prefix=/usr/share/mailman --with-var-prefix=/var/ mailman --with-username=_mailman --with-groupname=_mailman --with-mail- gid=_mailman --with-cgi-gid=_www --without-permcheck ./configure --prefix=/usr/share/mailman --with-var-prefix=/var/mailman --with-username=_mailman --with-groupname=_mailman --with-mail- gid=_postfix --with-cgi-gid=_www --without-permcheck make make install chown _www:_mailman /var/mailman/archives/private chmod o-r-x /var/mailman/archives/private touch /var/mailman/data/aliases touch /var/mailman/data/virtual-mailman scp #copy mm_cfg.py from where I'm working on it to its proper home. /usr/share/mailman/bin/newlist -q mailman bryan at laughingboot.net mypassword /usr/share/mailman/bin/config_list -i /var/mailman/data/sitelist.cfg mailman /usr/share/mailman/bin/newlist -q galaxy bryan at gurgitate.org mypassword /usr/share/mailman/bin/config_list -i /var/mailman/data/sitelist.cfg galaxy /usr/share/mailman/bin/withlist -l -r fix_url galaxy -- urlhost=gurgitate.org cd /usr/share/mailman/bin ./genaliases serveradmin start mail ./mailmanctl -s start ./check_perms -f rm -R /Library/TemporaryItems/ From bryan at bryanharrison.com Wed Jun 17 02:05:56 2009 From: bryan at bryanharrison.com (Bryan Harrison) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:05:56 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domains for Mailing Lists in MailMan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65C5FA05-7EC0-4E28-B822-E9444894D580@bryanharrison.com> Mark, Oooh! Aaah! Happy dance! It works. Thanks for being so generous with your expertise. Cleaning up my fuzzy ideas has been a pleasure. A minor puzzle, just in case you're interested: You'll be unsurprised that I found virtual_mailbox_domains and virtual_alias_domains will fight over any domain common to both. Since OS X Server is dependent on virtual_mailbox_domains , I did my usual blind monkey try-this-and-that and discovered it works fine without virtual_alias_domains. I won't pretend to understand, but am wondering if I've created something that will be less than robust. And one more question, if you don't mind: In addition to hosting lists for virtual domains, I need to host listname at the address listname at laughingboot.net on the server gilded- bat.laughingboot.net. Is this sufficient? # mm_dfg.py # 2009-06-16 # Include Defaults: from Defaults import * # Site-specific overrides: MTA = 'Postfix' DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'laughingboot.net' DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'gilded-bat.laughingboot.net' VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) add_virtualhost('gurgitate.org', 'gurgitate.org') POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = 'gurgitate.org' DEFAULT_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE = 10000 # KB I've read that I need to do this as well? # /etc/postfix/virtual # 2009-06-09 laughingboot.net IGNORE @laughingboot.net @mail.laughingboot.net ?but feel like a cargo cult member worshipping a ball point pen when I look at it. Of course gilded-bat.laughingboot.net needs to continue to handle non-mailing list mail for laughingboot.net as well. Thanks again, Bryan From gordie at stcloudstate.edu Wed Jun 17 23:32:18 2009 From: gordie at stcloudstate.edu (Schmitt, Gordon A.) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:32:18 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.9 incorrectly holding messages for "Reason: Message has implicit destination" Message-ID: We had been using mailman 2.1.5 installed on Redhat Enterprise v3.n for several years . A few months ago, we installed a new Redhat system for our mailing list server, Redhat Enterprise Linux Server release 5.3 (Tikanga) which has Mailman 2.1.9 installed. I followed various instructions on migrating the mailing lists and everything seemed to be working just fine. However, within the past few weeks we noticed that some users sending to their favorite lists are having a lot of trouble with their messages being held as: "Reason: Message has implicit destination" . Many users do not have this happen. I have been investigating and testing and I can not figure out why. Our main campus mail system is Exchange 2007. They have put the address in the correct place, i.e. The To: or CC: fields. We create exchange contacts for each mailing list that forwards the message to the mailing list server, e.g. listname at stcloudstate.edu forwards to listname at lserver.stcloudstate.edu and there was never any problems for the past several years before our upgrade. Below is the header info from a message that is being held that should have passed through. Can anyone think of what is causing this behavior for certain messages? One person mentioned that it happenes when he did a reply-all to a message and it worked after creatomg a new message. I do not know if this could be related because I tried doing this and all my messages went through fine. I may have to experiment more with what email client software the messages are being sent from, I mostly use Entourage on a Mac. The majority of campus use Outlook on some version of Windows. Thanks for any help Gordon Schmitt St. Cloud State University Return-Path: <joesmoe at stcloudstate.edu> X-Original-To: listname at lserver.stcloudstate.edu Delivered-To: listname at lserver.stcloudstate.edu Received: from excserver1.campus.stcloudstate.edu (excserver1.campus.stcloudstate.edu [199.17.15.89]) by lists.stcloudstate.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66C9E97745 for <listname at lserver.stcloudstate.edu>; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:55:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from excserver2.campus.stcloudstate.edu ([199.17.15.82]) by excserver1.campus.stcloudstate.edu ([199.17.15.89]) with mapi; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:55:26 -0500 From: "Smoe, Joe A." <joesmoe at stcloudstate.edu> To: "Olagunju, Am O." <alguein at stcloudstate.edu>, "listname at stcloudstate.edu" <IMCEAEX-_O=SCSU_OU=First+20Administrative+20Group_cn=Recipients_cn=listname at stcloudstate.edu> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:55:25 -0500 Subject: RE: Remedial education requires joint partnerships Thread-Topic: Remedial education requires joint partnerships Thread-Index: Acnulm1RBSQvD3MvQeSh+5ZrkDCZkgA6JTO3 Message-ID: <3D401A37AB144C40AF0D9BE440596A7F12EA6C84EF at excserver2.campus.stcloudstate.edu> References: <16EEB76BD19BC343A7E6E591A3A4B82712E41B3061 at excserver2.campus.stcloudstate.edu> In-Reply-To: <16EEB76BD19BC343A7E6E591A3A4B82712E41B3061 at excserver2.campus.stcloudstate.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_004_3D401A37AB144C40AF0D9BE440596A7F12EA6C84EFSCSU80campuss_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 From jaclyn at treeoflifestudio.org Wed Jun 17 21:06:47 2009 From: jaclyn at treeoflifestudio.org (Jaclyn) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:06:47 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] email list Message-ID: <27D79D81-5D64-4242-B00D-7437453F9741@treeoflifestudio.org> Hi, I was with a small business that used mail-man to organize our email list. We had a web guy (a friend who was paid in trade) who set this up and was in charge of our website. He got swamped with paid work and basically left us at the altar (stranded!) He no longer really offered help on how to get access to our website. Thankfully we still have access to our mail man email list. Recently this small business has changed hands and now it's just me in charge of the email list. We'd like to continue using mailman but I'm afraid that since we didn't set it up and aren't on any pay schedule with the site, that it will get taken out from under us. The mailing list is called likewater-news mailing list, and was set up by Bruce Weber. We are now called the Tree of Life instead of Like Water. We'd really like to keep using it so any advice you have would be great! Thanks a lot. Jaclyn Morrow The Tree of Life Cultural Arts Studio 734 433 0697 6065 Sibley Rd, Chelsea MI 48118 www.treeeoflifestudio.org From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Jun 17 08:37:30 2009 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:37:30 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domain not quite working on HTTP (but fine on SMTP) Message-ID: <20090617063729.GR26092@linuxmafia.com> Greetings, good people. Problem summary: After server rebuild, virtual hosts work for SMTP, but Mailman's Web pages are appearing for the main host only and _not_ the virtual host. Details: I've had Mailman running on Debian (serving up mailing lists for both "linuxmafia.com" and "lists.linuxgazette.net") since, oh, God was a teenager, but a power spike destroyed my somewhat antique hardware in April. I hastily deployed Debian "lenny" 5.0 on a spare box the same day, and then copied back down my latest backup data and madly worked to recreate the prior config. That data restore including dropping back into place the former entire /var/lib/mailman/lists/ tree (mailing list definitions), the /var/lib/mailman/archives/ tree, etc. (As noted below, this data restore was correct to the extent of making Mailman able to handle both domains' mailing lists correctly concerning SMTP operation, and linuxmafia.com's mailing lists concerning Mailman Web pages.) Relevant package versions: :r! dpkg -l | egrep 'mailman|apache2-mpm-prefork|exim4-base' ii apache2-mpm-prefork 2.2.8-1 Traditional model for Apache HTTPD ii exim4-base 4.69-9 support files for all Exim MTA (v4) packages ii mailman 1:2.1.10~b3-1 Powerful, web-based mailing list manager Things are oddly different from Pleistocene times when I did the job before (not a complaint!). After some fussing about concerning exim4/mailman integration, I stumbled on details about POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS and its use even with non-Postfix MTAs. (I put the required plumbing into /etc/exim4/conf.d/*. It works.) I did read the Debian folks' /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Exim4.Debian , which includes in part: Here's a way to integrate mailman with Exim4 that will automatically play nice with mailman's virtual domains support and VERP. It does not require dedicating domain(s) to mailman. Configure your Mailman (in /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py) with: MTA = 'Postfix' POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/bin/true' POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = 'chgrp Debian-exim' and list all your Mailman domains in "POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS". Please note that the chgrp command above will not work when creating a list in the web interface: the user www-data will not be allowed to do this. You can circumvent this problem by creating new lists with the 'newlist' command line command or using instead: POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = 'chmod o+r' This will allow local users (with shell access to the list server) to see the list of all Mailman mailing lists, but not much more. I also noted what appeared to be good advice at http://files.technomage.net/postfix_mailman.txt -- and, consequently, completed Exim integration by running /var/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases, and, lo! /var/lib/mailman/data/{aliases|virtual-mailman} came into existence, and Exim stopped generating errors. More important, the Exim/Mailman jointly [re-]started processing mail for the mailing lists within both domains. Life was good. Almost. There remains the matter of Mailman's Web pages: Those for domain linuxmafia.com are present. (See: http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/) Those for domain lists.linuxgazette.net are not. See: http://lists.linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/ -- as you'll notice, Apache2 does recognise the domain. The Apache document root for that location, /var/www/gazette, has an .htaccess file in it, as follows: # cat /var/www/gazette/.htaccess redirect 301 /index.html http://lists.linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/ If I mv .htaccess to .htacces-save for diagnostic purposes, I _do_ see the contents of /var/www/gazette/ in my browser, so this is not an Apache vhost problem. Here is what I imagine is the relevant part of my current /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py : # Default domain for email addresses of newly created MLs DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'linuxmafia.com' #------------------------------------------------------------- # Default host for web interface of newly created MLs DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'linuxmafia.com' #------------------------------------------------------------- # Required when setting any of its arguments. add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) add_virtualhost('lists.linuxgazette.net', 'lists.linuxgazette.net') [...] # Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains, but be sure to # see /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Debian first. # MTA='Postfix' MTA = 'Postfix' POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/bin/true' POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = 'chgrp Debian-exim' POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['linuxmafia.com', 'lists.linuxgazette.net'] VIRTUAL_HOSTS = {'lists.linuxgazette.net':'lists.linuxgazette.net'} VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = 1 Here is what I imagine is the relevant part of my current /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Default.py: #### # Virtual domains ##### # Set up your virtual host mappings here. This is primarily used for the # thru-the-web list creation, so its effects are currently fairly limited. # Use add_virtualhost() call to add new mappings. The keys are strings as # determined by Utils.get_domain(), the values are as appropriate for # DEFAULT_HOST_NAME. VIRTUAL_HOSTS = {'lists.linuxgazette.net':'lists.linuxgazette.net'} # When set to Yes, the listinfo and admin overviews of lists on the machine # will be confined to only those lists whose web_page_url configuration option # host is included within the URL by which the page is visited - only those # "on the virtual host". When set to No, all advertised (i.e. public) lists # are included in the overview. VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = On # Helper function; use this in your mm_cfg.py files. If optional emailhost is # omitted it defaults to urlhost with the first name stripped off, e.g. # # add_virtualhost('www.dom.ain') # VIRTUAL_HOST['www.dom.ain'] # ==> 'dom.ain' # def add_virtualhost(urlhost, emailhost=None): DOT = '.' if emailhost is None: emailhost = DOT.join(urlhost.split(DOT)[1:]) VIRTUAL_HOSTS[urlhost.lower()] = emailhost.lower() # And set the default add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) add_virtualhost('lists.linuxgazette.net', 'lists.linuxgazette.net') # Note that you will want to run bin/fix_url.py to change the domain of an # existing list. bin/fix_url.py must be run within the bin/withlist script, # like so: bin/withlist -l -r bin/fix_url.py [...] # MTA should name a module in Mailman/MTA which provides the MTA specific # functionality for creating and removing lists. Some MTAs like Exim can be # configured to automatically recognize new lists, in which case the MTA # variable should be set to None. Use 'Manual' to print new aliases to # standard out (or send an email to the site list owner) for manual twiddling # of an /etc/aliases style file. Use 'Postfix' if you are using the Postfix # MTA -- but then also see POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS. # MTA = 'Manual' MTA = 'Postfix' # If you set MTA='Postfix', then you also want to set the following variable, # depending on whether you're using virtual domains in Postfix, and which # style of virtual domain you're using. Set this to the empty list if you're # not using virtual domains in Postfix, or if you're using Sendmail-style # virtual domains (where all addresses are visible in all domains). If you're # using Postfix-style virtual domains, where aliases should only show up in # the virtual domain, set this variable to the list of host_name values to # write separate virtual entries for. I.e. if you run dom1.ain, dom2.ain, and # dom3.ain, but only dom2 and dom3 are virtual, set this variable to the list # ['dom2.ain', 'dom3.ain']. Matches are done against the host_name attribute # of the mailing lists. See the Postfix section of the installation manual # for details. #POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [] POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['linuxmafia.com', 'lists.linuxgazette.net' qrunner has been HUPed (many times) since setting the above config, but no go. What am I so far missing, in getting Mailman to serve up Web pages for the lists.linuxgazette.net mailing lists? Thanks. -- Cheers, Notice: The value of your Hofstadter's Constant Rick Moen (the average amount of time you spend each month rick at linuxmafia.com thinking about Hofstadter's Constant) has just McQ! (4x80) been adjusted upwards. From sgruver at cis.ctc.edu Tue Jun 16 17:05:37 2009 From: sgruver at cis.ctc.edu (Gruver, Sandi) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:05:37 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments renamed in archives Message-ID: <2937FEC6C48A2444A185846F547A35DA0720A5E326@london.CISI.ctc.edu> I have this line in the mm_cfg.py file: SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION = True, but attachments (.pdf) are being renamed to .obj. Can you please give a big hint as to what do I need to do to fix this? Thank you, S. Gruver Unix System Administrator SBCTC-IT Bellevue, WA 98004 425.803.9753 fax 425.803.9752 sgruver at cis.ctc.edu From brad at shub-internet.org Thu Jun 18 07:09:22 2009 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 00:09:22 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] email list In-Reply-To: <27D79D81-5D64-4242-B00D-7437453F9741@treeoflifestudio.org> References: <27D79D81-5D64-4242-B00D-7437453F9741@treeoflifestudio.org> Message-ID: <4A39CC02.9010809@shub-internet.org> on 6/17/09 2:06 PM, Jaclyn said: > The mailing list is called likewater-news mailing list, and was set up > by Bruce Weber. We are now called the Tree of Life instead of Like > Water. We'd really like to keep using it so any advice you have would > be great! Thanks a lot. In your situation, what I would recommend is to find a reputable service provider that specializes in Mailman and Mailman-hosted mailing lists, and have them work with you to get your lists moved over to their services. There are several such providers on this list, and I'm sure that they will be more than happy to speak up here or to contact you directly. If you want any more specific advice, please let me know. -- Brad Knowles LinkedIn Profile: From brian at emwd.com Thu Jun 18 07:34:30 2009 From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:34:30 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] email list In-Reply-To: <27D79D81-5D64-4242-B00D-7437453F9741@treeoflifestudio.org> References: <27D79D81-5D64-4242-B00D-7437453F9741@treeoflifestudio.org> Message-ID: <03f301c9efd6$75a383e0$60ea8ba0$@com> > Hi, > I was with a small business that used mail-man to organize our email > list. We had a web guy (a friend who was paid in trade) who set this > up and was in charge of our website. He got swamped with paid work > and basically left us at the altar (stranded!) He no longer really > offered help on how to get access to our website. Thankfully we still > have access to our mail man email list. Recently this small business > has changed hands and now it's just me in charge of the email list. > We'd like to continue using mailman but I'm afraid that since we > didn't set it up and aren't on any pay schedule with the site, that it > will get taken out from under us. > > The mailing list is called likewater-news mailing list, and was set up > by Bruce Weber. We are now called the Tree of Life instead of Like > Water. We'd really like to keep using it so any advice you have would > be great! Thanks a lot. > Jaclyn Morrow > > The Tree of Life Cultural Arts Studio > 734 433 0697 > 6065 Sibley Rd, Chelsea MI 48118 > www.treeeoflifestudio.org > > Hi Jaclyn: My recommendation is to move your list to another hosting provider. You can check us out at http://www.emwd.com/mailman.html. Also there is a list of mailman friendly providers at http://wiki.list.org/display/COM/Mailman+hosting+services. We can help you migrate your list and archives to our services if you decide to move your list to our services. Have a great week. :^) Regards, Brian Carpenter EMWD.com From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Thu Jun 18 11:25:51 2009 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:25:51 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domain not quite working on HTTP (but fine on SMTP) In-Reply-To: <20090617063729.GR26092@linuxmafia.com> References: <20090617063729.GR26092@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20090618092551.GJ12458@amyl.org.uk> On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 11:37:30PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > Greetings, good people. Problem summary: After server rebuild, > virtual hosts work for SMTP, but Mailman's Web pages are appearing > for the main host only and _not_ the virtual host. [...] > After some fussing about concerning exim4/mailman integration, I > stumbled on details about POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS and its use even > with non-Postfix MTAs. (I put the required plumbing into > /etc/exim4/conf.d/*. It works.) I did read the Debian folks' > /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Exim4.Debian , which includes in part: I would not touch that. Even with the travesty that is Pkg-exim4, I still use something along the lines (pretty much) of that per > Here's a way to integrate mailman with Exim4 that will automatically > play nice with mailman's virtual domains support and VERP. It does not > require dedicating domain(s) to mailman. My kludges don't care about subdomains/"list only" domains. > http://files.technomage.net/postfix_mailman.txt -- and, consequently, > completed Exim integration by running /var/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases, > and, lo! /var/lib/mailman/data/{aliases|virtual-mailman} came into > existence, and Exim stopped generating errors. More important, the > Exim/Mailman jointly [re-]started processing mail for the mailing lists > within both domains. Life was good. Almost. IMO, life's waaay too short to genaliases. the configs in Nigel's doc makes that a thing of the past (it's probably worth noting, I am a lazy sysadmin, and i automate as much as possible, and just couldn't make sense of Postfix when i inherited a box with postfix as its MTA: that got changed). > There remains the matter of Mailman's Web pages: Those for domain > linuxmafia.com are present. (See: http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/) > Those for domain lists.linuxgazette.net are not. See: > http://lists.linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/ -- as you'll notice, > Apache2 does recognise the domain. The Apache document root for that > location, /var/www/gazette, has an .htaccess file in it, as follows: > > # cat /var/www/gazette/.htaccess > redirect 301 /index.html > http://lists.linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/ that 404's for me: have you got the Mailman Apache stanzas set-up in lists.linuxgazette.net's vhost config? I've not had issues using ServerAlias directives, fwiw. [...] You may need a 'clear' clause before the line below: search the archives of this list for discussions/thoughts/advice thereto. > VIRTUAL_HOSTS = {'lists.linuxgazette.net':'lists.linuxgazette.net'} [...] > MTA = 'Postfix' I'd change that, as you're using Exim. HTH -- "We used to quip that "password" is the most common password. Now it's "password1." Who said users haven't learned anything about security?" (Bruce Schneier, December 2006) From b19141 at anl.gov Thu Jun 18 16:17:21 2009 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:17:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.9 incorrectly holding messages for "Reason: Message has implicit destination" In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Schmitt, Gordon A." ' dated: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:32:18 -0500 Message-ID: <20090618141722.1C6B517600@britaine.cis.anl.gov> "Schmitt, Gordon A." wrote: >We had been using mailman 2.1.5 installed on Redhat Enterprise v3.n for >several years . A few months ago, we installed a new Redhat system for >our mailing list server, Redhat Enterprise Linux Server release 5.3 >(Tikanga) which has Mailman 2.1.9 installed. I followed various >instructions on migrating the mailing lists and everything seemed to be >working just fine. However, within the past few weeks we noticed that >some users sending to their favorite lists are having a lot of trouble >with their messages being held as: "Reason: Message has implicit >destination" . Many users do not have this happen. I have been >investigating and testing and I can not figure out why. Our main campus >mail system is Exchange 2007. They have put the address in the correct >place, i.e. The To: or CC: fields. > >We create exchange contacts for each mailing list that forwards the >message to the mailing list server, e.g. listname at stcloudstate.edu >forwards to listname at lserver.stcloudstate.edu and there was never any >problems for the past several years before our upgrade. Below is the >header info from a message that is being held that should have passed >through. Can anyone think of what is causing this behavior for certain >messages? One person mentioned that it happenes when he did a >reply-all to a message and it worked after creatomg a new message. I >do not know if this could be related because I tried doing this and all >my messages went through fine. I may have to experiment more with what >email client software the messages are being sent from, I mostly use >Entourage on a Mac. The majority of campus use Outlook on some version >of Windows. Have you set listname at stcloudstate.edu as an acceptable_alias for listname at lserver.stcloudstate.edu via o Privacy options... o Recipient filters If not, then Mailman does not know that the shorter name is actually an acceptable name for the real list name. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jun 18 18:50:15 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:50:15 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.9 incorrectly holding messages for"Reason: Message has implicit destination" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Schmitt, Gordon A. wrote: > Below is the header info from a message that is being held that should have passed through. Can anyone think of what is causing this behavior for certain messages? One person mentioned that it happenes when he did a reply-all to a message and it worked after creatomg a new message. I do not know if this could be related because I tried doing this and all my messages went through fine. I may have to experiment more with what email client software the messages are being sent from, I mostly use Entourage on a Mac. The majority of campus use Outlook on some version of Windows. [...] >To: "Olagunju, Am O." <alguein at stcloudstate.edu>, > "listname at stcloudstate.edu" > <IMCEAEX-_O=SCSU_OU=First+20Administrative+20Group_cn=Recipients_cn=listname at stcloudstate.edu> Are the HTML entities (", < and >) actually in the message header or are they artifacts from some web copy/paste operation? Even assuming those are just an artifact, the above header is To: "Olagunju, Am O." , "listname at stcloudstate.edu" What is all that "IMCEAEX-_O=SCSU_OU=First+20Administrative+20Group_cn=Recipients_cn=" prepended to "listname" If that is what the To: header actially looked like, that's the problem. I would not be surprised to find that Outlook did something to the address in the To: header of the reply that could cause this, but I haven't heard of it. In another reply, Barry Finkel suggests adding listname at stcloudstate.edu to acceptable_aliases for the listname at lserver.stcloudstate.edu list. While this is a good idea, it will not solve the problem in this case, because as a deprecated, backwards compatibility feature, Mailman 2.1.x will accept any address as the list address if the list name matches even if the domains don't. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jun 18 19:09:19 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:09:19 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments renamed in archives In-Reply-To: <2937FEC6C48A2444A185846F547A35DA0720A5E326@london.CISI.ctc.edu> Message-ID: Gruver, Sandi wrote: >I have this line in the mm_cfg.py file: >SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION = True, but attachments (.pdf) are being renamed to .obj. > >Can you please give a big hint as to what do I need to do to fix this? Do the MIME headers of the attachment have a Content-Disposition: header with a filename= or name= parameter with the .pdf extension. If so, Scrubber should use it. Even if not, Scrubber will normally guess '.pdf' for the extension if the Content-Type is application/pdf. The fact that the attachment is saved with a .obj extension indicates the sending MUA may be giving it MIME type application/octet-stream rather than application/pdf, and not giving it a filename. To say more, we would need the actual MIME headers from the attachment. You can find these in the archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jun 18 19:36:47 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:36:47 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domain not quite working on HTTP (but fineon SMTP) In-Reply-To: <20090617063729.GR26092@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: Rick Moen wrote: > >There remains the matter of Mailman's Web pages: Those for domain >linuxmafia.com are present. (See: http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/) >Those for domain lists.linuxgazette.net are not. See: >http://lists.linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/ -- as you'll notice, >Apache2 does recognise the domain. The Apache document root for that >location, /var/www/gazette, has an .htaccess file in it, as follows: > > # cat /var/www/gazette/.htaccess > redirect 301 /index.html > http://lists.linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/ > >If I mv .htaccess to .htacces-save for diagnostic purposes, I _do_ >see the contents of /var/www/gazette/ in my browser, so this is not >an Apache vhost problem. Yes it is. 'listinfo' is a CGI. You need a ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/" (or whatever the correct path is) in your httpd.conf where it will apply to the lists.linuxgazette.net host. I.e. it needs to be in the VirtualHost block for each host with lists or it needs to be outside of the virtual hosts section so it applies globally. >Here is what I imagine is the relevant part of my current >/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py : > > # Default domain for email addresses of newly created MLs > DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'linuxmafia.com' > #------------------------------------------------------------- > # Default host for web interface of newly created MLs > DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'linuxmafia.com' > #------------------------------------------------------------- > # Required when setting any of its arguments. > add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) > add_virtualhost('lists.linuxgazette.net', 'lists.linuxgazette.net') >[...] This looks good, but is not relevant to your issue, at least not until you fix Apache so that http://lists.linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/ gets you to the Mailman listinfo CGI. > # Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains, but be sure to > # see /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Debian first. > # MTA='Postfix' > MTA = 'Postfix' > POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/bin/true' > POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = 'chgrp Debian-exim' > POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['linuxmafia.com', 'lists.linuxgazette.net'] > VIRTUAL_HOSTS = {'lists.linuxgazette.net':'lists.linuxgazette.net'} Get rid of the above line. It undoes everything you did with add_virtualhost directives above. > VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = 1 > > >Here is what I imagine is the relevant part of my current >/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Default.py: > > #### > # Virtual domains > ##### > > # Set up your virtual host mappings here. This is primarily used for the > # thru-the-web list creation, so its effects are currently fairly limited. > # Use add_virtualhost() call to add new mappings. The keys are strings as > # determined by Utils.get_domain(), the values are as appropriate for > # DEFAULT_HOST_NAME. > VIRTUAL_HOSTS = {'lists.linuxgazette.net':'lists.linuxgazette.net'} Where did this come from. If you put it there, you shouldn't be changing Defaults.py at all. If it's part of the Debian package, I don't know what to say. [...] > # MTA = 'Manual' > MTA = 'Postfix' > [...] > #POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [] > POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['linuxmafia.com', 'lists.linuxgazette.net' DON'T CHANGE Defaults.py Make all your changes in mm_cfg.py. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jun 18 20:59:48 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 11:59:48 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.9 incorrectly holding messagesfor"Reason: Message has implicit destination" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Schmitt, Gordon A. wrote: > >The text '.."listname at stcloudstate.edu"..' is copied from Mailman's Message Headers textbox of a held message and that is exactly how it appears in that textbox. Yeah, That's Mailman being overprotective against XSS attacks. The HTML entities are seen in the text box in the admindb interface, but the received message contains the actual characters, so that's not the problem. >The "IMCEAEX-_O=SCSU_OU=First+20Administrative+20Group_cn=Recipients_cn=" comes from the exchange server. It seems to show up that why for held moderated messages too(that pass through without problems). If you're saying you see this in messages held for some other reason (moderated member), and those messages pass through OK after approval, that means nothing. Moderation and non-member tests are done first followed by administrivia and "too many recipients" before "implicit destination. Once approved, a held message will not be held again for any reason. Thus, a message that meets the test for "implicit destination" can be held for "moderated member", "non-member post", "administrivia" or "too big", and if approved will then go to the list. If that string is the problem, you could try adding to acceptable_aliases ^.*listname@(lserver\.)?stcloudstate\.edu$ (a regexp that matches anything ending in listname at stcloudstate.edu or listname at lserver.stcloudstate.edu) or if the last "=" is always there ^(.*=)?listname@(lserver\.)?stcloudstate\.edu$ which will match listname at stcloudstate.edu or listname at lserver.stcloudstate.edu possibly preceded with anything ending in "=". >I found out from another user today that it happens to them when they reply of forward a message to listname at stcloudstate.edu, but not if they create a new message. This is the second person that has informed me of this behavior. I plan to visit his office and observe what his Outlook is doing. Also, have him Cc or Bcc you on an original message and a reply/forward so you can see what the To: and Cc: headers look like in the two cases. [...] >Are there any log files worth looking at, or additional mailman logging that I can setup that might be helpful? The only logging is Mailman's Vette log, and that doesn't show anything that isn't already in the admindb interface. >Do you think the HTML entities could be causing the problem? Or more likely the ? Do either of these contain characters that would cause Mailman to not match "listname at stcloudstate.edu" even though it is in the string? The test is a match against the whole address so the only way to ignore the leading junk is with a regexp in acceptable_aliases such as the ones above that explicitly skips stuff at the beginning. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From khillo100 at hotmail.com Thu Jun 18 22:31:32 2009 From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:31:32 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] clear messages held for moderation .. Message-ID: hello .. is there a way to delete all the messages that are held for moderation via command prompt i.e. SSH ?? thanks .. _________________________________________________________________ Drag n? drop?Get easy photo sharing with Windows Live? Photos. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/photos.aspx From terri at zone12.com Thu Jun 18 23:57:38 2009 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:57:38 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] clear messages held for moderation .. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A3AB852.1090602@zone12.com> Khalil Abbas wrote: > is there a way to delete all the messages that are held for moderation via command prompt i.e. SSH ?? The short answer is use bin/discard See the FAQ entry at http://wiki.list.org/x/nIA9 for more details. Terri From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jun 19 00:30:48 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 15:30:48 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domains for Mailing Lists in MailMan In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bryan Harrison wrote: > >I've found the resources you recommended helpful, but am stymied >nonetheless. I'm bright but not expert with Postfix or Mailman, and >have been butting my head against this for days. > >As a test, I'm trying to install mailman on the server gilded- >bat.laughingboot.net, and create functioning lists mailman at laughingboot.net > and galaxy at gurgitate.org. Virtual domains are humming along nicely >in both Apache and Postfix. > >Mailman's processes run and I can browse the interface site, but all >my tests now bounce with: > ><"|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman post galaxy"@gilded- >bat.laughingboot.net>: > data format error. Command output: |/usr/share/mailman/mail/ >mailman post > galaxy: Bad protocol See below >If you're feeling particularly saintly, I've P.S.'d install_mailman.sh >below ? the very rough script I'm using to install and configure >mailman. > >Relevant lines from main.cf are > >virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual,hash:/var/mailman/data/ >aliases,hash:/var/mailman/data/virtual-mailman The entry "hash:/var/mailman/data/aliases" should be in alias_maps, not virtual_alias_maps. >virtual_mailbox_domains = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual_domains Your Mailman domains should be virtual_alias_domains. virtual_mailbox_domains can't deliver properly to Mailman aliases. >mm_cfg.pys looks like this: > ># Include Defaults: > >from Defaults import * > ># Site-specific overrides: > >MTA = 'Postfix' >DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'laughingboot.net' >DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'gilded-bat.laughingboot.net' Probably not absolutely necessary, but put VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() here to remove the add_virtualhosts entry from Defaults.py. >add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) >add_virtualhost('gurgitate.org', 'gurgitate.org') >POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = 'gurgitate.org' >DEFAULT_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE = 10000 # KB > >I'm running OS X Server 10.5.7. > >I'll burn an SUV to the Gods on your behalf if you care to help me out. > >Best regards, >Bryan > > ># !/bin/tcsh ># INSTALL MAILMAN TEST ># Last Updated: 2009-06-15 ># Assumes prior installation of Xcode. > >serveradmin stop mail >/usr/share/mailman/bin/mailmanctl stop > >rm -Rf /var/mailman/* >rm -Rf /usr/share/mailman/* >mkdir -p -m ug=rwx,o=rx /var/mailman >mkdir -p -m a+rx,g+ws /usr/share/mailman >chown _mailman:_mailman /var/mailman >chown _mailman:_mailman /usr/share/mailman >chmod -R 2777 /var/mailman >chmod -R 2777 /usr/share/mailman These are a bit permissive - should be 2775. > >mkdir -p /Library/TemporaryItems >cd /Library/TemporaryItems > >curl -O http://superb-west.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/mailman/mailman-2.1.12.tgz >tar -xzf mailman-2.1.12.tgz >cd mailman-2.1.12 > ># Pick One, anyone, none of them work: > ># ./configure --prefix=/usr/share/mailman --with-var-prefix=/var/ >mailman --with-username=_mailman --with-groupname=_mailman --with-cgi- >gid=_www ># ./configure --prefix=/usr/share/mailman --with-var-prefix=/var/ >mailman --with-username=_mailman --with-groupname=_mailman --with-mail- >gid=_mailman --with-cgi-gid=_www --without-permcheck The one above should be correct. With Postfix integration, the "mail-gid" is the primary group of the owner of /var/mailman/data/aliases.db which should be _mailman. It shouldn't need --without-permcheck >./configure --prefix=/usr/share/mailman --with-var-prefix=/var/mailman >--with-username=_mailman --with-groupname=_mailman --with-mail- >gid=_postfix --with-cgi-gid=_www --without-permcheck > >make >make install > >chown _www:_mailman /var/mailman/archives/private >chmod o-r-x /var/mailman/archives/private >touch /var/mailman/data/aliases >touch /var/mailman/data/virtual-mailman The above two touch shouldn't be needed. >scp #copy mm_cfg.py from where I'm working on it to its proper home. > >/usr/share/mailman/bin/newlist -q mailman bryan at laughingboot.net >mypassword >/usr/share/mailman/bin/config_list -i /var/mailman/data/sitelist.cfg >mailman > >/usr/share/mailman/bin/newlist -q galaxy bryan at gurgitate.org mypassword >/usr/share/mailman/bin/config_list -i /var/mailman/data/sitelist.cfg >galaxy /var/mailman/data/sitelist.cfg is only intended for the site list named 'mailman' (unless you set something different for MAILMAN_SITE_LISTin mm_cfg.py). You need something like /usr/share/mailman/bin/newlist -q mailman bryan at gurgitate.org mypassword /usr/share/mailman/bin/config_list -i /var/mailman/data/sitelist.cfg mailman Yo don't want the config_list for other lists. >/usr/share/mailman/bin/withlist -l -r fix_url galaxy -- >urlhost=gurgitate.org Instead of the above, just create it with /usr/share/mailman/bin/newlist -q -u gurgitate.org galaxy bryan at gurgitate.org mypassword >cd /usr/share/mailman/bin >./genaliases If you create the lists in the proper domain with newlist, you don't need genaliases at this point. >serveradmin start mail >./mailmanctl -s start >./check_perms -f Do the check_perms before the mailmanctl start >rm -R /Library/TemporaryItems/ > -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jun 19 01:04:42 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 16:04:42 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domains for Mailing Lists in MailMan In-Reply-To: <65C5FA05-7EC0-4E28-B822-E9444894D580@bryanharrison.com> Message-ID: Bryan Harrison > >A minor puzzle, just in case you're interested: > >You'll be unsurprised that I found virtual_mailbox_domains and >virtual_alias_domains will fight over any domain common to both. >Since OS X Server is dependent on virtual_mailbox_domains , I did my >usual blind monkey try-this-and-that and discovered it works fine >without virtual_alias_domains. I won't pretend to understand, but am >wondering if I've created something that will be less than robust. I'm far from a Postfix expert, and I'm not sure what's going on in your case. My understanding is that with virtual_mailbox_domains, mail to such a domain is always delivered to a mailbox or mail directory, and aliases such as those which pipe the mail to a mailman wrapper do not apply. So, I'm not sure what you have that enables this mail to be delivered to Mailman. >And one more question, if you don't mind: > >In addition to hosting lists for virtual domains, I need to host >listname at the address listname at laughingboot.net on the server gilded- >bat.laughingboot.net. Is this sufficient? > ># mm_dfg.py ># 2009-06-16 > ># Include Defaults: > >from Defaults import * > ># Site-specific overrides: > >MTA = 'Postfix' >DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'laughingboot.net' >DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'gilded-bat.laughingboot.net' >VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() >add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) >add_virtualhost('gurgitate.org', 'gurgitate.org') >POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = 'gurgitate.org' The above is sufficient and (almost) correct if laughingboot.net is a local (non-virtual) domain as far as Postfix is concerned. Yhe last line should be POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['gurgitate.org'] POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS is a list even if it has only one entry. >DEFAULT_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE = 10000 # KB > >I've read that I need to do this as well... > ># /etc/postfix/virtual ># 2009-06-09 > >laughingboot.net IGNORE >@laughingboot.net @mail.laughingboot.net > >...but feel like a cargo cult member worshipping a ball point pen when I >look at it. Of course gilded-bat.laughingboot.net needs to continue >to handle non-mailing list mail for laughingboot.net as well. If /etc/postfix/virtual is a virtual_alias_maps file, the first line above says laughingboot.net is a virtual_alias_domain and is not required if laughingboot.net is listed explicitly in virtual_alias_domains in main.cf. The second line says all mail to the domain laughingboot.net should be routed to mail.laughingboot.net. If it is a virtual_mailbox_maps file, The first line may work analogously, but I'm not sure and the second line specifies a mailbox name to which to deliver laughingboot.net mail. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From bryan at bryanharrison.com Fri Jun 19 02:11:52 2009 From: bryan at bryanharrison.com (Bryan Harrison) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:11:52 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs OSX vs launchd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1DCE4BC5-CA96-4B5C-92D9-89EA775E4E9C@bryanharrison.com> I've built and installed Mailman 2.12 from current source code and have it running just fine under OS X Server 10.5.7, with on exception, which is not properly speaking a Mailman problem at all. If I start Mailman from the CLI, using /usr/share/mailman/bin/ mailmanctl -s start, all is well. If I allow launchd to start it using the following Launch Daemon? Label org.list.mailmanctl OnDemand Program /usr/share/mailman/bin/mailmanctl ProgramArguments mailmanctl -s start ServiceIPC ?I get an endless succession of? Jun 18 16:50:26 org.list.mailmanctl[1697]: Starting Mailman's master qrunner. Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl[1697]): Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 1698 PPID 1 Python Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling respawn: Will start in 9 seconds ?complete with dawn-of-the-dead respawning processes. I configured Mailman to replicate OSXS's default locations, and it runs fine. It doesn't even break Server Admin, aside from my use of virtual domains which ServerAdmin can't handle. The only difference between my org.list.mailmanctl.plist and Apple's is my verb *start*, as opposed to Apple's *startf*. I'm baffled by *startf*, which is not supported by mailman and does nothing, either in the CLI or in org.list.mailmanctl.plist. Obviously this isn't fatal and there are even other ways to insure an automatic startup, but I use launchd for such things, Apple more or less deprecates other approaches, and it drives me nuts not to understand what's going on. Speak, oh voices of wisdom! -Bryan From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com Fri Jun 19 02:22:02 2009 From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:22:02 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs OSX vs launchd In-Reply-To: <1DCE4BC5-CA96-4B5C-92D9-89EA775E4E9C@bryanharrison.com> Message-ID: On 6/18/09 7:11 PM, Bryan Harrison at bryan at bryanharrison.com wrote: > I've built and installed Mailman 2.12 from current source code and > have it running just fine under OS X Server 10.5.7, with on exception, > which is not properly speaking a Mailman problem at all. > > If I start Mailman from the CLI, using /usr/share/mailman/bin/ > mailmanctl -s start, all is well. > > If I allow launchd to start it > ?I get an endless succession of? > > Jun 18 16:50:26 org.list.mailmanctl[1697]: Starting Mailman's master > qrunner. > Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl[1697]): > Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 1698 PPID 1 Python > Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling > respawn: Will start in 9 seconds Known issue, no idea why. I've been running Mailman on Client OS X since the Tiger days. As soon as I upgraded to Leopard, I started seeing this happen intermittently. I have a launchd plist almost identical to yours. It is intermittent for me. Probably happens about 1 in 3 boots. I try to remember to check that it's running after reboots. If not, I have a cron job that runs hourly to check for the proper number of qrunners and send me e-mail if any or all are missing. -- Larry Stone lstone19 at stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ From alexx at renam.md Thu Jun 18 15:53:14 2009 From: alexx at renam.md (Alexei Altuhov) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 16:53:14 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve all held? In-Reply-To: <4A32A241.7000203@zone12.com> References: <4A329C51.9040900@zone12.com> <4A32A241.7000203@zone12.com> Message-ID: <4A3A46CA.2030407@renam.md> Terri Oda ?????: > Terri Oda wrote: >> Mark Sapiro wrote: >>> Alexx wrote: >>>> how could I approve all messeages (around hundred of'em) held for >>>> moderation due to one reason or another? I could manually approve some >>>> of them with "confirm in subject and approved:password message", but >>>> there are PLENTY of old ones held for more than 3 days in queue. >>>> >>>> I suppose it has to be done via /bin/withlist and a script, or is >>>> there another solution? > > Here's a bookmarklet version of the script I posted earlier. Just > bookmark this stupidly long string and then when you're viewing your > admin page, click the bookmark to move every box over to "Accept" -- > should simplify the task some. > > > > javascript:function%20approveAll(){var%20inputs=document.getElementsByTagName("input");for(var%20i=0;i > > > I expect the stupidly long string is going to get line-wrapped, so > you'll probably need to stick it back together. I've only tested it in > Firefox 3, but it's pretty basic JavaScript so it will likely work in > other browsers. > > > Terri Thanks, Terri! And sorry for not replying right away. Unfortunately I don't have access to the web interface, because of the Group mismatch error. So currently this leaves me with the command line administration only. So, thanks again, will use your advice once I transfer mailman web interface onto the other server. Cheers, Alexei. From bret at riiplay.tv Fri Jun 19 12:17:37 2009 From: bret at riiplay.tv (Bret Conkin) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 03:17:37 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] password access for fundfindr Media Message-ID: <03ca01c9f0c7$2b91e6b0$82b5b410$@tv> Hi , We lost our network admin guy awhile back and have been unable to figure out how to access the passwords to manage our lists. Despite our requests, he has been uncooperative. http://lists.fundfindr.com/mailman/listinfo/team I am hoping there is a way to reset the passwords. I am getting these messages but cannot approve without password. Can you suggest anything? As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the following mailing list posting: List: Team at fundfindr.com From: info at fundfindr.com Subject: Hot Events - Internet Marketing Conference and Exit Strategy Workshop Reason: Post by non-member to a members-only list At your convenience, visit: http://lists.fundfindr.com/mailman/admindb/team to approve or deny the request. Warmest regards, Bret Conkin CEO, riiPlay Evangelist Angel Forum's Exit Strategy Workshop - Now Playing at Riiplay.tv e: bret at riiplay.tv p: 604.250.9666 www.riiplay.tv Follow riiPlay.tv on twitter Blog: fundfindr.tv www.fundfindr.com From Enza at cdlawyers.org Thu Jun 18 21:17:10 2009 From: Enza at cdlawyers.org (Canadian Defence Lawyers - Enza) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 15:17:10 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List serv issue Message-ID: Hello, I'm hoping you can help me. We run a list serve through Mailman and some of our recent emails have this message: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/cdllawyers/attachments/20090617/95e1752f/attachment-0001.html Can you explain what this is, why it's happening and what we can do to prevent the scrubbing of future emails? Thanks so much Ms. Enza Del Cogliano Canadian Defence Lawyers 830-40 University Avenue Toronto, ON M5J 1T1 T.416.340.9859 enza at cdlawyers.org P From gordie at stcloudstate.edu Thu Jun 18 19:18:45 2009 From: gordie at stcloudstate.edu (Schmitt, Gordon A.) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:18:45 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.9 incorrectly holding messages for"Reason: Message has implicit destination" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for you response. The text '.."listname at stcloudstate.edu"..' is copied from Mailman's Message Headers textbox of a held message and that is exactly how it appears in that textbox. The "IMCEAEX-_O=SCSU_OU=First+20Administrative+20Group_cn=Recipients_cn=" comes from the exchange server. It seems to show up that why for held moderated messages too(that pass through without problems). I found out from another user today that it happens to them when they reply of forward a message to listname at stcloudstate.edu, but not if they create a new message. This is the second person that has informed me of this behavior. I plan to visit his office and observe what his Outlook is doing. I already tried adding the listname at stcloudstate.edu as an acceptable alias (in fact I did it for all of our lists) and thought I had solved the problem but found out the next day that the same users were still having the same problem. Are there any log files worth looking at, or additional mailman logging that I can setup that might be helpful? Do you think the HTML entities could be causing the problem? Or more likely the ? Do either of these contain characters that would cause Mailman to not match "listname at stcloudstate.edu" even though it is in the string? Thanks again Gordon Schmitt St. Cloud State University On 6/18/09 11:50 AM, "Mark Sapiro" wrote: Schmitt, Gordon A. wrote: > Below is the header info from a message that is being held that should have passed through. Can anyone think of what is causing this behavior for certain messages? One person mentioned that it happenes when he did a reply-all to a message and it worked after creatomg a new message. I do not know if this could be related because I tried doing this and all my messages went through fine. I may have to experiment more with what email client software the messages are being sent from, I mostly use Entourage on a Mac. The majority of campus use Outlook on some version of Windows. [...] >To: "Olagunju, Am O." <alguein at stcloudstate.edu>, > "listname at stcloudstate.edu" > <IMCEAEX-_O=SCSU_OU=First+20Administrative+20Group_cn=Recipients_cn=listname at stcloudstate.edu> Are the HTML entities (", < and >) actually in the message header or are they artifacts from some web copy/paste operation? Even assuming those are just an artifact, the above header is To: "Olagunju, Am O." , "listname at stcloudstate.edu" What is all that "IMCEAEX-_O=SCSU_OU=First+20Administrative+20Group_cn=Recipients_cn=" prepended to "listname" If that is what the To: header actially looked like, that's the problem. I would not be surprised to find that Outlook did something to the address in the To: header of the reply that could cause this, but I haven't heard of it. In another reply, Barry Finkel suggests adding listname at stcloudstate.edu to acceptable_aliases for the listname at lserver.stcloudstate.edu list. While this is a good idea, it will not solve the problem in this case, because as a deprecated, backwards compatibility feature, Mailman 2.1.x will accept any address as the list address if the list name matches even if the domains don't. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -- Gordon Schmitt System Administrator/Programmer LRTS/ITS MC 204 St. Cloud State University Gordie _at_ stcloudstate.edu 320-308-4838 From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Jun 18 19:25:27 2009 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:25:27 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domain not quite working on HTTP (but fine on SMTP) In-Reply-To: <20090618092551.GJ12458@amyl.org.uk> References: <20090617063729.GR26092@linuxmafia.com> <20090618092551.GJ12458@amyl.org.uk> Message-ID: <20090618172527.GA6724@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Adam McGreggor (adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk): > > # cat /var/www/gazette/.htaccess > > redirect 301 /index.html > > http://lists.linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/ > > that 404's for me: have you got the Mailman Apache stanzas set-up in > lists.linuxgazette.net's vhost config? I've not had issues using > ServerAlias directives, fwiw. Um, that's not 404, you're being 301-redirected by the .htaccess file to a URL that _is_ 404 on account of Mailman not providing the virthost there. Here, let's temporarily disable the .htaccess file, and see: # cd /var/www/gazette/ linuxmafia:/var/www/gazette# mv .htaccess .htaccess-save linuxmafia:/var/www/gazette# touch HELLO-WORLD You'll please note that http://lists.linuxgazette.net/ (and http://lists.linuxgazette.net/HELLO-WORLD ) are not, in fact, 404. But anyway, since you ask, here's the relevant excerpt from the Apache config: DocumentRoot /var/www/gazette Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks AllowOverride All Order allow,deny Allow from all > I would not touch that. Even with the travesty that is Pkg-exim4, I > still use something along the lines (pretty much) of that per > You know, that is very likely what I did in the prior incarnation of my machine, and I'd certainly consider doing it again -- but being very careful, because this is a production system. I'm glad to go with anything that works: Trying first what the package maintainers and Debian people recommend seemed worthwhile. In any event, the current setup is just one small problem (http on the virthost) away from 100% success, so maybe it can be debugged. Also, since Exim-Mailman integration is working fine, and it's Mailman's virthost communication with Apache that's broken, I'm not sure switching to the admittedly far more elegant approach of http://exim.org/howto/mailman21.html would address my current problem. > You may need a 'clear' clause before the line below: search the > archives of this list for discussions/thoughts/advice thereto. > > > VIRTUAL_HOSTS = {'lists.linuxgazette.net':'lists.linuxgazette.net'} > [...] Thanks. I'll try that. (After restarting qrunning:) Nope. That didn't do it. > > MTA = 'Postfix' > > I'd change that, as you're using Exim. I don't believe that's really right. The keyword "Postfix" in that context just means "use Postfix-style domain semantics", which are not in any way Postfix-specific but are just a particular way of dealing with aliases, if I understand correctly. From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Jun 18 20:47:57 2009 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 11:47:57 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domain not quite working on HTTP (but fine on SMTP) In-Reply-To: References: <20090617063729.GR26092@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20090618184757.GC6724@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Mark Sapiro (mark at msapiro.net): > Yes it is. 'listinfo' is a CGI. You need a > ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/" The Apache conf has: ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/ I didn't harp on that in either of my posts because I _had_ pointed out that the Mailman Web pages _do work_ for the default host -- and also invited people to have a look at http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo and subpages thereof, if they had any doubts. -=but=-, the above ScriptAlias was neatly tucked into the stanza for the default host. And: > (or whatever the correct path is) in your httpd.conf where it will > apply to the lists.linuxgazette.net host. I.e. it needs to be in the > VirtualHost block for each host with lists or it needs to be outside > of the virtual hosts section so it applies globally. That was it! Fixed, now. Damn. Bear in mind, I've just had a forced transition from Apache 1.3.x to Apache2 (on account of sudden destruction of the old box), so my excuse is that Debian's Apache2 conffile setup is rather different from what I was used to. Thank you, Mark. And thank you, good gentleman all. -- Cheers, Notice: The value of your Hofstadter's Constant Rick Moen (the average amount of time you spend each month rick at linuxmafia.com thinking about Hofstadter's Constant) has just McQ! (4x80) been adjusted upwards. From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jun 19 18:03:37 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:03:37 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve all held? In-Reply-To: <4A3A46CA.2030407@renam.md> Message-ID: Alexei Altuhov wrote: > >Unfortunately I don't have access to the web interface, because of the >Group mismatch error. We can help you fix that. How did you install Mailman? From our source or from a vendors package? Give us the details, and we'll try to help. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jun 19 18:10:56 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:10:56 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] password access for fundfindr Media In-Reply-To: <03ca01c9f0c7$2b91e6b0$82b5b410$@tv> Message-ID: Bret Conkin wrote: > >We lost our network admin guy awhile back and have been unable to figure out >how to access the passwords to manage our lists. Despite our requests, he >has been uncooperative. > > > >http://lists.fundfindr.com/mailman/listinfo/team > > > >I am hoping there is a way to reset the passwords. I am getting these >messages but cannot approve without password. Can you suggest anything? If this is your Mailman installation (i.e., installed on a server to which you have shell or command line access), you can reset the passwords for your lists with Mailman's bin/change_pw command. If you don't have this level of access, you wilol need to work through the provider that hosts your Mailman installation. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jun 19 18:23:09 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:23:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List serv issue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Canadian Defence Lawyers - Enza wrote: > >I'm hoping you can help me. We run a list serve through Mailman Listserv (and by extension, list serve) is not a generic term. It is a registered trademark that belongs to a Mailman competitor. See . >and some >of our recent emails have this message: > > > >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >URL: >/pipermail/cdllawyers/attachments/20090617/95e1752f/attachment-0001.html > > > >Can you explain what this is, why it's happening and what we can do to >prevent the scrubbing of future emails? This will always be the case for messages in the list's archive and for 'plain text' format digests. If you are seeing this in individual messages from the list and/or in 'MIME' format digests, you need to set scrub_nondigest to No. You will find this setting on the web list admin "Non-digest options" page. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From barry at list.org Sat Jun 20 00:35:06 2009 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 18:35:06 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] password access for fundfindr Media In-Reply-To: <03ca01c9f0c7$2b91e6b0$82b5b410$@tv> References: <03ca01c9f0c7$2b91e6b0$82b5b410$@tv> Message-ID: On Jun 19, 2009, at 6:17 AM, Bret Conkin wrote: > Hi , > We lost our network admin guy awhile back and have been unable to > figure out how to access the passwords to manage our lists. Despite > our requests, he has been uncooperative. > > http://lists.fundfindr.com/mailman/listinfo/team > > I am hoping there is a way to reset the passwords. I am getting > these messages but cannot approve without password. Can you suggest > anything? > > As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the > following mailing list posting: > > List: Team at fundfindr.com > From: info at fundfindr.com > Subject: Hot Events - Internet Marketing Conference and Exit > Strategy Workshop > Reason: Post by non-member to a members-only list > > At your convenience, visit: > > http://lists.fundfindr.com/mailman/admindb/team > > to approve or deny the request. Hi Bret, You'll need to have shell access to the Mailman machine, but then you can reset your list password with the site password. Please see this FAQ entry: http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030543 -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 832 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From khillo100 at hotmail.com Sat Jun 20 19:29:17 2009 From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 17:29:17 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List size vs. server memory .. and moderation via command prompt.. Message-ID: Dear mailman guys .. 2 questions: 1- does the list members affect the server's memory ? I mean, is it better to split the list to 3 small lists for example rather than put all the members in one big list? 2- is there a way to remove the moderation flag from a certain member via SSH command prompt ?? Thanks .. _________________________________________________________________ More than messages?check out the rest of the Windows Live?. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/ From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jun 21 04:03:17 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 19:03:17 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List size vs. server memory .. and moderation via command prompt.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Khalil Abbas wrote: > >1- does the list members affect the server's memory ? I mean, is it better to split the list to 3 small lists for example rather than put all the members in one big list? In Mailman 2.1.x, from the point of view of total memory used by the qrunners, it makes negligible difference. Each qrunner maintains a cache of instantiated list objects. List objects are supposed to be freed when no longer in use, but there is a self reference that effectively locks them permanently in the cache so the cache in the runner grows until it has one instance of every list. For other purposes such as command line tools and web CGIs, smaller lists would use less memory, but these processes are transient. This all assumes you are using the default MemberAdaptor. If you are using, e.g, a MySQL or LDAP MemberAdaptor, it would depend on how the MemberAdaptor handles the member list. >2- is there a way to remove the moderation flag from a certain member via SSH command prompt ?? See (mirrored at ). -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jun 22 18:25:31 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 09:25:31 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve all held? In-Reply-To: <4A3F7639.1080004@renam.md> References: <4A3F7639.1080004@renam.md> Message-ID: <4A3FB07B.6010600@msapiro.net> ??????? ??????? wrote: > Mark Sapiro wrote: >> Alexei Altuhov wrote: >> >>> Unfortunately I don't have access to the web interface, because of the >>> Group mismatch error. >>> >> >> >> We can help you fix that. How did you install Mailman? From our source >> or from a vendors package? >> >> Give us the details, and we'll try to help. >> >> > Mailman has been installed by one of our admins from the repository, as > usual. This seems to say you installed someone's package from a package repository as opposed to installing from our source. > The thing is, that he has installed Asterix afterwards and as I > understood from now on all cgi scripts are run from the asterix group > rather than the mailman one. > > Is it possible to change that or divide, which cgi scripts will be > executed from the mailman group and which ones from the mailman - I > couldn't figure out by myself and that left me with the command line > administration. If you installed from source, the way to fix this is to re-run configure with the addition of the option "--with-cgi-gid=asterix" and then run "make install". The alternative is to configure the web server (is this Asterix?) to run the Mailman CGI wrappers as the group they expect, but I gather this is not possible in your case. Most packaged versions of Mailman have a way to tell the CGI wrappers what group to expect, but how you do that is specific to the package. You need to ask the packager. I.e., if this is a RedHat or CentOS rpm, ask on a RedHat list or see other RedHat support resources; if Debian or Ubuntu, check those support resources, etc. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From hal at sofdev.sri.com Mon Jun 22 23:23:03 2009 From: hal at sofdev.sri.com (Hal Huntley) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:23:03 PDT Subject: [Mailman-Users] footers and members of the list Message-ID: We have a request from a list administrator asking if he can have the all the members of the list listed in the footer of the message. This list is under Mailman 2.1.9. This isn't a "personalization" listing with just the name of the member subscribing. He wants all the messages going out to have all the list members in the footer. Is there a variable that can handle that? Or must the list maintainer just add the names by hand? He may be content with just names or email addresses. Regards, Hal Huntley SRI International From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jun 23 00:30:49 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:30:49 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] footers and members of the list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hal Huntley wrote: >We have a request from a list administrator asking if he can have the all >the members of the list listed in the footer of the message. This list is >under Mailman 2.1.9. > >This isn't a "personalization" listing with just the name of the member >subscribing. He wants all the messages going out to have all the list >members in the footer. > >Is there a variable that can handle that? Or must the list maintainer just >add the names by hand? He may be content with just names or email >addresses. No, there is no variable that can handle that, but one could easily put a link to the list's roster page in the footer which I think would be much better than putting everyone's address in which raises serious privacy concerns should such a message be forwarded off list. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From alexx at renam.md Mon Jun 22 14:16:57 2009 From: alexx at renam.md (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdC10Lkg0JDQu9GC0YPRhdC+0LI=?=) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:16:57 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve all held? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A3F7639.1080004@renam.md> Mark Sapiro wrote: > Alexei Altuhov wrote: > >> Unfortunately I don't have access to the web interface, because of the >> Group mismatch error. >> > > > We can help you fix that. How did you install Mailman? From our source > or from a vendors package? > > Give us the details, and we'll try to help. > > Mailman has been installed by one of our admins from the repository, as usual. The thing is, that he has installed Asterix afterwards and as I understood from now on all cgi scripts are run from the asterix group rather than the mailman one. Is it possible to change that or divide, which cgi scripts will be executed from the mailman group and which ones from the mailman - I couldn't figure out by myself and that left me with the command line administration. So, if you need more details in order to resolve this, I'd be happy to provide it! Thanks for trying to help, Alexei. From hal at sofdev.sri.com Tue Jun 23 01:12:38 2009 From: hal at sofdev.sri.com (Hal Huntley) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:12:38 PDT Subject: [Mailman-Users] footers and members of the list In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:30:49 -0700 Message-ID: > Hal Huntley wrote: > > >We have a request from a list administrator asking if he can have the all > >the members of the list listed in the footer of the message. This list is > >under Mailman 2.1.9. > > > >This isn't a "personalization" listing with just the name of the member > >subscribing. He wants all the messages going out to have all the list > >members in the footer. > > > >Is there a variable that can handle that? Or must the list maintainer just > >add the names by hand? He may be content with just names or email > >addresses. > > > No, there is no variable that can handle that, but one could easily put > a link to the list's roster page in the footer which I think would be > much better than putting everyone's address in which raises serious > privacy concerns should such a message be forwarded off list. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list > Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/hal%40sofdev.sri.com > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > === Mark, Thank you for that information. I gave that URL idea a try and if I happened to be logged in as a list administrator for a list, I got a list of members. I also tried getting a roster by going to a ".../mailman/roster/" of a list I am a member of but was not logged in. I got an "authentication failed." error message. Since one needs to be a member of the list to see the members, that makes sense. One could set the URL to point to the ".../listinfo/" page where the person could enter their email address and password to get the list members, but I think the list admininstrator wants something a bit easier to get the names. I will share your thoughts with the list administrator about not wanting to do that anyway due to privacy concerns. Excellent point. Hal From antonio.piu at gmail.com Sat Jun 20 02:11:04 2009 From: antonio.piu at gmail.com (Antonio Piu) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 02:11:04 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] free Mailman hosting Message-ID: Hi all! Does anybody know some free Mailman hosting services? I could not find anything. Thank you for your help. Antonio From devguy78 at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 09:45:40 2009 From: devguy78 at gmail.com (Dev Guy) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 11:45:40 +0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Internal 500 Error (Ubuntu jaunty / Mailman 2.1.12 / Python 2.6.2) Message-ID: Hi, I've tried to look this up on the lists, forums, etc. but have failed to find anything that resolves this issue, so forgive me if I have missed a solution mentioned elsewhere. I have recently upgraded my Ubuntu distribution to Jaunty. This upgrade included an upgrade on Mailman, Python and Apache2. I'm currently running the following versions: ii apache2 2.2.11-2ubuntu2.1 Apache HTTP Server metapackage ii apache2-mpm-prefork 2.2.11-2ubuntu2.1 Apache HTTP Server - traditional non-threade ii python2.6 2.6.2-0ubuntu1 An interactive high-level object-oriented la ii listadmin 2.40-2.2 command line mailman moderator queue manipul ii mailman 1:2.1.12-1 Powerful, web-based mailing list manager I have looked through the logs, but nothing seems to indicate anything special, aside from the expressive line: ---- Premature end of script headers: admin ---- In my Apache2 error log file (turned logging to 'debug' level). Running the 'admin' or 'listinfo' scripts from the shell gives me this: ---- # ./listinfo Content-type: text/html Bug in Mailman version 2.1.12

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.12

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. ----- I ran 'check_perms' and while there were errors it found, they were all fixed. This had no effect on the problem. Mailman appears to be operational otherwise. Emails are sent and received without issues. I can admin the site using the 'listadmin' tools. However, the web interface is completely broken. What am I missing? Thanks! Derek Morrison From rprichard at freedomforum.org Tue Jun 23 00:35:44 2009 From: rprichard at freedomforum.org (Ralph Prichard) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:35:44 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman repetitively trying to drop addresses Message-ID: <191B385ADADDFE45A6B58FA92F8CF8D0310243@exch2003.freedomforum.org> We imported about 1000 addresses from an old mailing list into a new Mailman list, and we were hoping Mailman's bounce processing would start removing any addresses that are clearly no longer valid. This is old info; if we've got a bad address, we just want it dropped without any further resuscitation efforts. Here are our bounce processing settings: bounce_processing = Yes bounce_score_threshold = 3.0 bounce_info_stale_after = 21 bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 0 bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval = 7 bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner = Yes bounce_notify_owner_on_disable = Yes bounce_notify_owner_on_removal = Yes These settings have been adjusted a few times, but not by any radical amount. I'm sure I also inadvertantly dropped the "bounce_score_threshold" from 3.5 to 3.0 while the latest message was still being distributed. However, the previous message exhibited the same problematic behavior I'm seeing today, and the values were all left alone during that period. After messages went out that resulted in bounce scores over the threshold, there were a couple of issues... 1) Mailman tried to send a notification to the bad addresses indicating that they've been dropped from the mailing list. It does so despite the fact that "send_goodbye_msg" is set to "no". So my first question is almost identical to this one: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-August/052688.html Does anyone know how to get the bounce processing system to respect the "send_goodbye_msg" value, while still sending the moderators/list owners notification that an address has been dropped? 2) Mailman tried to drop 2 addresses (out of an apparent list of 55 bad addresses) over and over again, until after 10 attempts, when the BounceRunner stopped. (Nothing at all seemed to happen to the other 53 addresses.) The first notification that the list owners received regarding the drop attempts referenced the actual message that a list member sent. But the next 10 notifications referred to the fact that the "You have been unsubscribed from the 'somelist' mailing list" messages were _also_ bouncing. (Which is another reason I'd like to suppress those messages from ever being sent in the first place.) But back to the failure to drop the address... There are the 11 restarts shown in the qrunner log file: Excerpt from /var/log/mailman/qrunner: ====================================== Jun 22 14:58:16 2009 (2047) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid: 2073, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] Jun 22 14:58:16 2009 (4880) BounceRunner qrunner started. Jun 22 15:13:16 2009 (2047) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid: 4880, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] Jun 22 15:13:16 2009 (5102) BounceRunner qrunner started. ...7 more occurrences removed (each BounceRunner startup has a different PID, if that's what the number in the bracket represents)... Jun 22 17:13:18 2009 (2047) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid: 5522, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] Jun 22 17:13:18 2009 (5574) BounceRunner qrunner started. Jun 22 17:28:18 2009 (2047) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid: 5574, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] Jun 22 17:28:18 2009 (2047) Qrunner BounceRunner reached maximum restart limit of 10, not restarting. There appears to be more interesting information in other files in /var/log/mailman. I'll include one excerpt from the "errors" file below. If anyone thinks the other information would be handy, please let me know and I'll try to trim it down a bit before sending a copy along. Excerpt from /var/log/mailman/error: ==================================== Jun 22 17:28:18 2009 qrunner(5574): Traceback (most recent call last): Jun 22 17:28:18 2009 qrunner(5574): File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in Jun 22 17:28:18 2009 qrunner(5574): main() Jun 22 17:28:18 2009 qrunner(5574): File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main Jun 22 17:28:18 2009 qrunner(5574): qrunner.run() Jun 22 17:28:18 2009 qrunner(5574): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 88, in run Jun 22 17:28:18 2009 qrunner(5574): self._cleanup() Jun 22 17:28:18 2009 qrunner(5574): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 263, in _cleanup Jun 22 17:28:18 2009 qrunner(5574): BounceMixin._cleanup(self) Jun 22 17:28:18 2009 qrunner(5574): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 137, in _cleanup Jun 22 17:28:18 2009 qrunner(5574): self._register_bounces() Jun 22 17:28:18 2009 qrunner(5574): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 125, in _register_bounces Jun 22 17:28:18 2009 qrunner(5574): mlist.registerBounce(addr, msg, day=day) Jun 22 17:28:18 2009 qrunner(5574): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 167, in registerBounce Jun 22 17:28:18 2009 qrunner(5574): self.setBounceInfo(member, info) Jun 22 17:28:18 2009 qrunner(5574): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 362, in setBounceInfo Jun 22 17:28:18 2009 qrunner(5574): self.__assertIsMember(member) Jun 22 17:28:18 2009 qrunner(5574): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 114, in __assertIsMember Jun 22 17:28:18 2009 qrunner(5574): raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member Jun 22 17:28:18 2009 qrunner(5574): Mailman.Errors . NotAMemberError : userA at hotmail.example.com Checking via the web interface for the list, "userA at hotmail.example.com" definitely is still a list member. Why can't Mailman drop the address? Every 15 minutes -- according to the bounce log and the messages to the list owners and moderators -- it thinks it's trying. Has anyone seen this before? Ralph From web at farmproject.org Sun Jun 21 03:19:11 2009 From: web at farmproject.org (Benjamin Lotto) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 21:19:11 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to deal with qfiles/bad/*.psv? Message-ID: <50D09780-3CEF-402E-8992-802DB8335AA0@farmproject.org> I've been using mailman for several years and have recently moved to a new machine. Something funny happened, and I had a lot of files built up in the qfiles/* directories. I restarted mailman with mailmanctl -s -q start and move everything was cleared out. There are six .psv files in qfiles/bad and I have no idea what to do with them. I've been poking around the web and various documentation and can't figure it out. Help, please? Using Mailman version: 2.1.12 Many thanks, -Ben From brian at emwd.com Tue Jun 23 01:30:00 2009 From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:30:00 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] free Mailman hosting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006101c9f391$5e3d4150$1ab7c3f0$@com> No you but you can check us out at http://www.emwd.com/mailman.html. Our prices start out at $4 per month per list. Have a great week. :^) Regards, Brian Carpenter EMWD.com -------------------------------------------------------- http://blog.emwd.com/ Curious comments from a web hosting techie > -----Original Message----- > From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org [mailto:mailman- > users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Piu > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 8:11 PM > To: mailman-users at python.org > Subject: [Mailman-Users] free Mailman hosting > > Hi all! > Does anybody know some free Mailman hosting services? > I could not find anything. > > Thank you for your help. > > Antonio > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list > Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman- > users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman- > users/brian%40emwd.com > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jun 23 02:24:43 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:24:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to deal with qfiles/bad/*.psv? In-Reply-To: <50D09780-3CEF-402E-8992-802DB8335AA0@farmproject.org> Message-ID: Benjamin Lotto wrote: >I've been using mailman for several years and have recently moved to a >new machine. Something funny happened, and I had a lot of files built >up in the qfiles/* directories. I restarted mailman with > >mailmanctl -s -q start > >and move everything was cleared out. There are six .psv files in >qfiles/bad and I have no idea what to do with them. I've been poking >around the web and various documentation and can't figure it out. >Help, please? > >Using Mailman version: 2.1.12 This is a recent Mailman feature. In older Mailman, when a runner encountered an exception in dequeueing a message, the fact was logged and the message discarded. Now, depending on settings, it may be saved as a .psv file in qfiles/bad/ See the comments in Defaults.py for the settings QRUNNER_SAVE_BAD_MESSAGES, BAD_SHUNT_STALE_AFTER and BAD_SHUNT_ARCHIVE_DIRECTORY. With default settings, assuming you've got a 2.1.12 Mailman crontab, these files are removed after 7 days. You can look at them with bin/dumpdb -p to see what's in them assuming they can be unpickled at all. There are also messages in Mailman's error log saying why they are there. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jun 23 02:48:08 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:48:08 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman repetitively trying to drop addresses In-Reply-To: <191B385ADADDFE45A6B58FA92F8CF8D0310243@exch2003.freedomforum.org> Message-ID: Ralph Prichard wrote: > >We imported about 1000 addresses from an old mailing list into a new >Mailman list, and we were hoping Mailman's bounce processing would start >removing any addresses that are clearly no longer valid. This is old >info; if we've got a bad address, we just want it dropped without any >further resuscitation efforts. Here are our bounce processing settings: > >bounce_processing = Yes >bounce_score_threshold = 3.0 >bounce_info_stale_after = 21 >bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 0 >bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval = 7 >bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner = Yes >bounce_notify_owner_on_disable = Yes >bounce_notify_owner_on_removal = Yes > >These settings have been adjusted a few times, but not by any radical >amount. I'm sure I also inadvertantly dropped the >"bounce_score_threshold" from 3.5 to 3.0 while the latest message was >still being distributed. However, the previous message exhibited the >same problematic behavior I'm seeing today, and the values were all left >alone during that period. > > >After messages went out that resulted in bounce scores over the >threshold, there were a couple of issues... > > >1) Mailman tried to send a notification to the bad addresses indicating >that they've been dropped from the mailing list. It does so despite the >fact that "send_goodbye_msg" is set to "no". So my first question is >almost identical to this one: > >http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-August/052688.html > >Does anyone know how to get the bounce processing system to respect the >"send_goodbye_msg" value, while still sending the moderators/list owners >notification that an address has been dropped? You can modify the code. In the definition of the sendNextNotification() method, see self.ApprovedDeleteMember( member, 'disabled address', admin_notif=self.bounce_notify_owner_on_removal, userack=1) and change userack=1 to userack=0 if you want no notice or to userack=None (or just remove it) to use the list's send_goodbye_msg setting. However, what's the harm? If the address is truly undeliverable, it's just one more residual bounce. If not, the user may possibly notified of a problem. >2) Mailman tried to drop 2 addresses (out of an apparent list of 55 bad >addresses) over and over again, until after 10 attempts, when the >BounceRunner stopped. (Nothing at all seemed to happen to the other 53 >addresses.) The first notification that the list owners received >regarding the drop attempts referenced the actual message that a list >member sent. But the next 10 notifications referred to the fact that >the "You have been unsubscribed from the 'somelist' mailing list" >messages were _also_ bouncing. (Which is another reason I'd like to >suppress those messages from ever being sent in the first place.) > This is a bug in Mailman 2.1.11 that is fixed in 2.1.12 (it only occurs if bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings is 0). The attached patch.txt file contains a patch to Bouncer.py that will fix it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: patch.txt URL: From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jun 23 02:55:53 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:55:53 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] footers and members of the list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hal Huntley wrote: > >Thank you for that information. I gave that URL idea a try and if I >happened to be logged in as a list administrator for a list, I got a list of >members. I also tried getting a roster by going to a >".../mailman/roster/" of a list I am a member of but was not >logged in. I got an "authentication failed." error message. Since one >needs to be a member of the list to see the members, that makes sense. Yeah, I always forget about that. I think if you go to a members only page without being logged in, you should get a login page and then be directed back to the original after login. It works that way for private archives (and the admin and admindb interfaces) and the user specific options page, but not for the roster. Gets me every time :( -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jun 23 03:10:33 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:10:33 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Internal 500 Error (Ubuntu jaunty / Mailman 2.1.12/ Python 2.6.2) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dev Guy wrote: >Hi, >I've tried to look this up on the lists, forums, etc. but have failed to >find anything that resolves this issue, so forgive me if I have missed a >solution mentioned elsewhere. > >I have recently upgraded my Ubuntu distribution to Jaunty. This upgrade >included an upgrade on Mailman, Python and Apache2. > >I'm currently running the following versions: > >ii apache2 2.2.11-2ubuntu2.1 > Apache HTTP Server metapackage >ii apache2-mpm-prefork 2.2.11-2ubuntu2.1 > Apache HTTP Server - traditional non-threade >ii python2.6 2.6.2-0ubuntu1 > An interactive high-level object-oriented la >ii listadmin 2.40-2.2 > command line mailman moderator queue manipul >ii mailman 1:2.1.12-1 > Powerful, web-based mailing list manager > >I have looked through the logs, but nothing seems to indicate anything >special, aside from the expressive line: > >---- >Premature end of script headers: admin >---- > >In my Apache2 error log file (turned logging to 'debug' level). > >Running the 'admin' or 'listinfo' scripts from the shell gives me this: > >---- ># ./listinfo >Content-type: text/html > >Bug in Mailman version 2.1.12 >

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.12

>

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

> >

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this >problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been >explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the >Mailman error logs. >----- > >I ran 'check_perms' and while there were errors it found, they were all >fixed. This had no effect on the problem. Mailman appears to be operational >otherwise. Emails are sent and received without issues. I can admin the site >using the 'listadmin' tools. However, the web interface is completely >broken. > >What am I missing? The OP and I had a conversation on the #mailman channel at freenode. We determined that he could successfully run sudo -u www-data /bin/sh -c "PATH_INFO=;export PATH_INFO;HTTP_HOST=www.example.com;export HTTP_HOST;REQUEST_METHOD=GET;export REQUEST_METHOD; /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo" (with appropriate changes to host and path) from the command line and the listinfo CGI would produce appropriate output, so the problem is apparently some issue with the way apache is (or isn't) invoking the CGI. The OP says suEXEC is not involved, and I had no other ideas. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From shop at justbrits.com Tue Jun 23 03:07:53 2009 From: shop at justbrits.com (Ed's Shop) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:07:53 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] free Mailman hosting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <> Keep in mind Antonio, you get EXACTLY what you 'pay' for!! Ed Please visit MY site at: www.justbrits.com From devguy78 at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 07:40:32 2009 From: devguy78 at gmail.com (Dev Guy) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:40:32 +0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Internal 500 Error (Ubuntu jaunty / Mailman 2.1.12/ Python 2.6.2) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:10 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > The OP and I had a conversation on the #mailman channel at freenode. We > determined that he could successfully run > > sudo -u www-data /bin/sh -c "PATH_INFO=;export > PATH_INFO;HTTP_HOST=www.example.com;export > HTTP_HOST;REQUEST_METHOD=GET;export REQUEST_METHOD; > /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo" > > (with appropriate changes to host and path) from the command line and > the listinfo CGI would produce appropriate output, so the problem is > apparently some issue with the way apache is (or isn't) invoking the > CGI. The OP says suEXEC is not involved, and I had no other ideas. > I spent some time with Apache guys and they said the way the script is being executed doesn't tell us everything and that I should simply run it without setting up environments, etc. When I do, I get the same result (500 internal error). I tried setting up ScriptLog to see what is going on, but since it's a binary, it doesn't produce any logs out of it. I ran 'ldd' on 'listinfo' and 'admin', etc. to see if I'm missing any libraries, which I am not. I'm just stuck here. Derek From alexx at renam.md Tue Jun 23 08:18:06 2009 From: alexx at renam.md (Alexei Altuhov) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:18:06 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approve all held? In-Reply-To: <4A3FB07B.6010600@msapiro.net> References: <4A3F7639.1080004@renam.md> <4A3FB07B.6010600@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <4A40739E.1060107@renam.md> Mark Sapiro ?????: > ??????? ??????? wrote: >> Mark Sapiro wrote: >>> Alexei Altuhov wrote: >>> >>>> Unfortunately I don't have access to the web interface, because of the >>>> Group mismatch error. >>>> >>> >>> We can help you fix that. How did you install Mailman? From our source >>> or from a vendors package? >>> >>> Give us the details, and we'll try to help. >>> >>> >> Mailman has been installed by one of our admins from the repository, as >> usual. > > > This seems to say you installed someone's package from a package > repository as opposed to installing from our source. > > >> The thing is, that he has installed Asterix afterwards and as I >> understood from now on all cgi scripts are run from the asterix group >> rather than the mailman one. >> >> Is it possible to change that or divide, which cgi scripts will be >> executed from the mailman group and which ones from the mailman - I >> couldn't figure out by myself and that left me with the command line >> administration. > > > If you installed from source, the way to fix this is to re-run configure > with the addition of the option "--with-cgi-gid=asterix" and then run > "make install". The alternative is to configure the web server (is this > Asterix?) to run the Mailman CGI wrappers as the group they expect, but > I gather this is not possible in your case. > > Most packaged versions of Mailman have a way to tell the CGI wrappers > what group to expect, but how you do that is specific to the package. > You need to ask the packager. I.e., if this is a RedHat or CentOS rpm, > ask on a RedHat list or see other RedHat support resources; if Debian or > Ubuntu, check those support resources, etc. > Sorry for misspelling the name of the SW: it's Asterisk, open source PBX. And the web server is Apache 2.x. I learned from the beginning, that if Mailman is installed from source it would have been easier to cope with the group mismatch problem, but... Admin installed Mailman from the RHEL rpm, so, thanks for the pointer, I'll try to find answers from that community. (I knew it's good I subscribed to CentOS list earlier! =) ) Thanks again, all the best, Alexei. From incib at itu.edu.tr Tue Jun 23 14:42:27 2009 From: incib at itu.edu.tr (=?iso-8859-9?Q?Burcu_=DDnci?=) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:42:27 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sender filter-hold and reject nonmember problem Message-ID: <459934610525534B9E602257704C429663929E22@cmiex2.cmi.itu.edu.tr> Hi , I have hold_these_nonmembers set for some domains for example from .edu addresses and also i have addresses in discard_these_nonmembers list. my problem is when an address in discard list with .edu post an email it is hold for moderation so my hold filter overrides the discard filter. is it normal or is there a way to change its order Thanks, Burcu ?nci From incib at itu.edu.tr Tue Jun 23 14:42:28 2009 From: incib at itu.edu.tr (=?iso-8859-9?Q?Burcu_=DDnci?=) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:42:28 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] want to slow down the post of server In-Reply-To: <004001c90c26$cb1c9b70$6155d250$@edu.tr> References: <200808311513.m7VFDaAF029330@firat.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr> <004001c90c26$cb1c9b70$6155d250$@edu.tr> Message-ID: <0c1501c9f400$178d8de0$46a8a9a0$@edu.tr> Burcu ?nci ?T? Bilgi ??lem Daire Ba?kanl??? Sistem Destek Grubu Tel: 0 212 285 39 30 -----Original Message----- From: mailman-users-bounces+incib=itu.edu.tr at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+incib=itu.edu.tr at python.org] On Behalf Of Burcu ?nci Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 2:35 PM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: [Mailman-Users] want to slow down the post of server hi, i have a list about 36000 member in same domain.when i want to post an email and approve it there is not any problem in mailman server and gateways. but when it start to delivered to my sendmail server,my server load incresase so much and it stop to work properly. what can i do for this problem,i think about to slow down mailman's post, will it work? Thanks, Burcu ?nci ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/incib%40itu.edu.tr Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jun 23 17:14:53 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:14:53 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Internal 500 Error (Ubuntu jaunty / Mailman2.1.12/ Python 2.6.2) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dev Guy wrote: >On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:10 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> >> The OP and I had a conversation on the #mailman channel at freenode. We >> determined that he could successfully run >> >> sudo -u www-data /bin/sh -c "PATH_INFO=;export >> PATH_INFO;HTTP_HOST=www.example.com;export >> HTTP_HOST;REQUEST_METHOD=GET;export REQUEST_METHOD; >> /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo" >> >> (with appropriate changes to host and path) from the command line and >> the listinfo CGI would produce appropriate output, so the problem is >> apparently some issue with the way apache is (or isn't) invoking the >> CGI. The OP says suEXEC is not involved, and I had no other ideas. >> > >I spent some time with Apache guys and they said the way the script is being >executed doesn't tell us everything and that I should simply run it without >setting up environments, etc. When I do, I get the same result (500 internal >error). What are you trying to say here? It seems you are saying that if you run sudo -u www-data /bin/sh -c "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo" or equivalent, you get a 500 server error, but that makes no sense as Apache isn't even involved in that. >I tried setting up ScriptLog to see what is going on, but since it's a >binary, it doesn't produce any logs out of it. I ran 'ldd' on 'listinfo' and >'admin', etc. to see if I'm missing any libraries, which I am not. > >I'm just stuck here. Put the following script in your mailman/cgi-bin/ directory with name 'printenv' and mode 755 (rwxr-xr-x) -------------------------cut here------------------- #!/usr/bin/python import os def printenv(): for n,v in os.environ.items(): print '%s: %s
' % (n,v) def generateFormDocument(): print 'Content-type: text/html' print print 'Print Environment' printenv() print ' ' if (__name__=='__main__'): generateFormDocument() -------------------------cut here------------------- and then visit your equivalent of http://www.example.com/mailman/printenv (i.e. the same URL you'd use to visit the admin or listinfo pages but with 'admin' or 'listinfo' replaced with 'printenv'. It should print the environment variables passed by Apache to the CGI. What does happen? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jun 23 17:58:54 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:58:54 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sender filter-hold and reject nonmember problem In-Reply-To: <459934610525534B9E602257704C429663929E22@cmiex2.cmi.itu.edu.tr> References: <459934610525534B9E602257704C429663929E22@cmiex2.cmi.itu.edu.tr> Message-ID: <4A40FBBE.9030700@msapiro.net> Burcu 0nci wrote: > Hi , > > I have hold_these_nonmembers set for some domains for example from > .edu addresses and also i have addresses in discard_these_nonmembers > list. > > my problem is when an address in discard list with .edu post an email > it is hold for moderation so my hold filter overrides the discard > filter. > > is it normal or is there a way to change its order This is normal. The *_these_nonmembers tests are done in the order they are listed in the web GUI (accept, hold, reject, discard). The first match applies. If no match, generic_nonmember_action applies. Changing this would require modifying the code in Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jun 23 18:04:03 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:04:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] want to slow down the post of server In-Reply-To: <0c1501c9f400$178d8de0$46a8a9a0$@edu.tr> References: <200808311513.m7VFDaAF029330@firat.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr> <004001c90c26$cb1c9b70$6155d250$@edu.tr> <0c1501c9f400$178d8de0$46a8a9a0$@edu.tr> Message-ID: <4A40FCF3.8020304@msapiro.net> Burcu 0nci wrote: > > i have a list about 36000 member in same domain.when i want to post an > email > and approve it there is not any problem in mailman server and gateways. > but > when it start to delivered to my sendmail server,my server load incresase > so > much and it stop to work properly. > what can i do for this problem,i think about to slow down mailman's post, > will it work? Mailman has no controls for this. This needs to be addressed in sendmail. See the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From drew.tenenholz at isid.org Tue Jun 23 19:24:05 2009 From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:24:05 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender address domain expanded - posts rejected by privacy options Message-ID: Dear fountain of Mailman knowledge -- Something strange is happening on a Mailman 2.1.9 installation that is being run for me. I wonder if it makes sense to any of you out there. We are running a closed list, which severely restricts who is allowed to post and subscribe. This is mostly for an internal discussion about a post before it is sent to the announce-only (parallel) list. One newly added user is having trouble posting. I believe Mailman may be doing something I didn't expect, and we've been able to compensate for it, but I'd like to know if I'm going crazy or not. I've set up the poster with a series of email account settings as follows: user at subsidiary.org is an alias on the subsidiary.org mail server that simply points to userfirst.userlast at isid.org. There is no mailbox for this user on the subsidiary.org server. They have a real email account on the mail server "isid.org" which they can access via both POP and webmail. When they send mail from the webmail system, their account settings for the 'From:' and 'Reply-To:' addresses are user at subsidiary.org. If I send a message directly to myself from their account, the From and Reply-To addresses are correct. When the message arrives at Mailman 2.1.9, the From address has dramatically changed into user at fullMX.record.expanded.edu What gives! To be complete, there really is a server at fullMX.record.expanded.edu which handles mail (not for this user), but I don't know where/why Mailman should be doing some sort of lookup and replace the "@subsidiary.org" with the full MX name. So, we updated the Privacy>Sender Filters (and General>Moderators) had to include this address and everything is working. The real question is why did this happen? Is it expected? Has it been changed in later versions? If there is a FAQ or something to tell me how this works, I'd love to read it. Thanks in Advance, Drew Tenenholz From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jun 23 20:01:24 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:01:24 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender address domain expanded - posts rejected byprivacy options In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Drew Tenenholz wrote: > >One newly added user is having trouble posting. I believe Mailman >may be doing something I didn't expect, and we've been able to >compensate for it, but I'd like to know if I'm going crazy or not. >I've set up the poster with a series of email account settings as >follows: > >user at subsidiary.org is an alias on the subsidiary.org mail server >that simply points to userfirst.userlast at isid.org. There is no >mailbox for this user on the subsidiary.org server. They have a real >email account on the mail server "isid.org" which they can access via >both POP and webmail. > >When they send mail from the webmail system, their account settings >for the 'From:' and 'Reply-To:' addresses are user at subsidiary.org. > >If I send a message directly to myself from their account, the From >and Reply-To addresses are correct. > >When the message arrives at Mailman 2.1.9, the From address has >dramatically changed into user at fullMX.record.expanded.edu What gives! > >To be complete, there really is a server at >fullMX.record.expanded.edu which handles mail (not for this user), The user isn't the issue. Does this MX handle mail for the Mailman list? >but I don't know where/why Mailman should be doing some sort of >lookup and replace the "@subsidiary.org" with the full MX name. So, >we updated the Privacy>Sender Filters (and General>Moderators) had to >include this address and everything is working. Why do you think it's Mailman that's rewriting the From:? I assure you Mailman is not doing it. >The real question is why did this happen? Is it expected? Has it >been changed in later versions? If there is a FAQ or something to >tell me how this works, I'd love to read it. This has nothing at all to do with Mailman. Some MUA/MTA/MDA in the delivery path from the user to the mailman server is doing this. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From awidom at nystla.org Wed Jun 24 16:06:12 2009 From: awidom at nystla.org (Amanda Widom) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:06:12 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question Message-ID: <200906241406.n5OE67qa003020@mail.nystla.org> Hi, The organization I work for has a mailman account and I have encountered a problem. We have a list called "RG List" of all of our members and I have been unsubscribing people that request to be taken off. The problem is when an en email is sent to rglist at nystla.org those unsubscribed people are still being sent emails. How can I fix this? Thanks! Amanda Widom Membership Coordinator New York State Trial Lawyers Association 132 Nassau Street New York, NY 10038 Phone: 212-349-5890 ext.319 Fax: 212-608-2310 www.NYSTLA.org From grickert at coldstorage.com Wed Jun 24 15:47:43 2009 From: grickert at coldstorage.com (Gerrat Rickert) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:47:43 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outlook Indenting messages Message-ID: Recently, and in the past, when posting to a python mailing list (not this one specifically), my message has been indented and placed under the last message (of a completely unrelated post). -ie. it looks like I've hijacked a thread. I didn't however - I created a brand new email message (from scratch) and sent it to the list. Any ideas on how or why it would appear like I was responding to a completely unrelated post? (there was actually nothing I could even find in common on my subject line and the subject of the post where my message appeared indented under.) After reading the FAQ, and searching the archives, I couldn't find anything related to this, so I'll ask here. I would like to determine if this is a mailman-related issue in general, something specific with some mailman-run mailing lists that I post to, or a problem specifically related to our Outlook or Outlook Exchange setup. (...I was hoping for a different answer than the obvious "don't use Outlook") ...maybe, If I'm lucky, this message will hijack a thread, and the answer will be obvious to "the-powers-that-be". Thanks for any help Gerrat From sergiomarques at luso3d.pt Wed Jun 24 13:03:37 2009 From: sergiomarques at luso3d.pt (=?iso-8859-1?Q?S=E9rgio_Marques?=) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:03:37 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] =?iso-8859-1?q?some_commands_does=B4t_works?= Message-ID: <689BA9478DA04AE3A4457D5559958B4A@3D> hi, when i send an email with set delivery off or set delivery on the mailman send me a bound email please say me how can i solve de trouble? S?rgio Marques From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jun 25 17:40:53 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:40:53 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question In-Reply-To: <200906241406.n5OE67qa003020@mail.nystla.org> Message-ID: Amanda Widom wrote: > >The organization I work for has a mailman account and I have encountered a >problem. We have a list called "RG List" of all of our members and I have >been unsubscribing people that request to be taken off. The problem is when >an en email is sent to rglist at nystla.org those unsubscribed people are still >being sent emails. How can I fix this? Exactly what Mailman version is this? Look on the bottom left of pages of the web admin or admindb interface. Exactly how do you unsubscribe people? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jun 25 17:56:10 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:56:10 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outlook Indenting messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Gerrat Rickert wrote: >Recently, and in the past, when posting to a python mailing list (not >this one specifically), my message has been indented and placed under >the last message (of a completely unrelated post). >-ie. it looks like I've hijacked a thread. I assume you are talking about your message in the pipermail archive. If so, can you point at one such in the archives of a list? If you're talking about threading in your own MUA (mail client) that doesn't appear that way in the archive, then I don't think we can help. >I didn't however - I created a brand new email message (from scratch) >and sent it to the list. >Any ideas on how or why it would appear like I was responding to a >completely unrelated post? (there was actually nothing I could even >find in common on my subject line and the subject of the post where my >message appeared indented under.) Threading in the pipermail archive has nothing to do with the Subject: header. It is based on In-Reply-To: and/or References: headers. >After reading the FAQ, and searching the archives, I couldn't find >anything related to this, so I'll ask here. >I would like to determine if this is a mailman-related issue in general, >something specific with some mailman-run mailing lists that I post to, >or a problem specifically related to our Outlook or Outlook Exchange >setup. >(...I was hoping for a different answer than the obvious "don't use >Outlook") I'm not aware of any such issue in Mailman. >...maybe, If I'm lucky, this message will hijack a thread, and the >answer will be obvious to "the-powers-that-be". Sorry, not in the list archive anyway. If there is an example in a public archive, please point to it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jun 25 18:01:42 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:01:42 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] =?iso-8859-1?q?some_commands_does=B4t_works?= In-Reply-To: <689BA9478DA04AE3A4457D5559958B4A@3D> References: <689BA9478DA04AE3A4457D5559958B4A@3D> Message-ID: <4A439F66.6050901@msapiro.net> S?rgio Marques wrote: > hi, when i send an email with set delivery off or set delivery on the > mailman send me a bound email please say me how can i solve de > trouble? See the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jun 25 21:00:32 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:00:32 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outlook Indenting messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Gerrat Rickert wrote: >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] >>Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:56 AM >>To: Gerrat Rickert; mailman-users at python.org >>Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Outlook Indenting messages >> >>Gerrat Rickert wrote: >> >>>Recently, and in the past, when posting to a python mailing list (not >>>this one specifically), my message has been indented and placed under >>>the last message (of a completely unrelated post). >>>-ie. it looks like I've hijacked a thread. >> >> >>I assume you are talking about your message in the pipermail archive. >>If so, can you point at one such in the archives of a list? > > >Yes, this message: >http://twistedmatrix.com/pipermail/twisted-python/2009-June/019859.html I see the incorrect threading of the above message in the index . I also see other threading anomalies in the same index. I downloaded the twisted-python.mbox/twisted-python.mbox file from twistedmatrix.com and built the May and June archive from it in a test 2.1.9 Mailman. For example at the end of I see --------------------------------------------------------------- # [Twisted-Python] untwisting twistd Jared Gisin + [Twisted-Python] untwisting twistd Phil Christensen + [Twisted-Python] untwisting twistd glyph at divmod.com + [Twisted-Python] untwisting twistd Phil Christensen * [Twisted-Python] untwisting twistd Alex Clemesha o [Twisted-Python] untwisting twistd Jared Gisin + [Twisted-Python] untwisting twistd Phil Christensen + [Twisted-Python] untwisting twistd Johan Rydberg # [Twisted-Python] twisted.web2 only can serve one connection at the same time when using scgi? Chris # [Twisted-Python] Fwd: SerialPort.loseConnection() in Win32, workaround biziap biziap * [Twisted-Python] Twisted Trial Gerrat Rickert o [Twisted-Python] Twisted Trial glyph at divmod.com + [Twisted-Python] Twisted Trial Gerrat Rickert # [Twisted-Python] adbapi and multiple queries in single transaction. Vishal Shetye + [Twisted-Python] adbapi and multiple queries in single transaction. Phil Christensen # [Twisted-Python] adbapi and multiple queries in single Vishal Shetye # [Twisted-Python] [ANN] Foolscap-0.4.2 released Brian Warner # [Twisted-Python] How to disable XMLRPC logging Dustin Land * [Twisted-Python] How to disable XMLRPC logging Jean-Paul Calderone --------------------------------------------------------------- and in the archive I built from the .mbox --------------------------------------------------------------- # [Twisted-Python] untwisting twistd Jared Gisin * [Twisted-Python] untwisting twistd Phil Christensen o [Twisted-Python] untwisting twistd glyph at divmod.com + [Twisted-Python] untwisting twistd Phil Christensen * [Twisted-Python] untwisting twistd Alex Clemesha o [Twisted-Python] untwisting twistd Jared Gisin + [Twisted-Python] untwisting twistd Phil Christensen * [Twisted-Python] untwisting twistd Johan Rydberg # [Twisted-Python] twisted.web2 only can serve one connection at the same time when using scgi? Chris # [Twisted-Python] Fwd: SerialPort.loseConnection() in Win32, workaround biziap biziap # [Twisted-Python] Twisted Trial Gerrat Rickert * [Twisted-Python] Twisted Trial glyph at divmod.com o [Twisted-Python] Twisted Trial Gerrat Rickert # [Twisted-Python] adbapi and multiple queries in single transaction. Vishal Shetye * [Twisted-Python] adbapi and multiple queries in single transaction. Phil Christensen # [Twisted-Python] adbapi and multiple queries in single Vishal Shetye # [Twisted-Python] [ANN] Foolscap-0.4.2 released Brian Warner # [Twisted-Python] How to disable XMLRPC logging Dustin Land * [Twisted-Python] How to disable XMLRPC logging Jean-Paul Calderone --------------------------------------------------------------- You can see in the twistedmatrix.com index two cases where the second post in a thread is indented to level 3 instead of level 1 which is clearly wrong. You can also see that in the archive I built, your thread starts at level 0 as it should. Also note that this apparently has nothing to do with Outlook.. There is a similarly indented post in early June - [Twisted-Python] Application Design help - Concurrent but not Protocols based. Senthil Kumaran and the posting MUA in that case was Mutt. Also see where the only two posts (spam) are both indented to level 1. Does this occur only on twistedmatrix.com lists? There is clearly something wrong with the archiving process on that site, but I can't duplicate it in a stock 2.1.9 environment. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mwhipple at purdue.edu Thu Jun 25 15:11:51 2009 From: mwhipple at purdue.edu (Whipple, Michelle M) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:11:51 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] new listserv Message-ID: <24E8B3EAFA77144C885BAB64D682A8EA05C73941@EXCH06.purdue.lcl> Hello, How do I go about setting up a new listserv for Purdue Group Exercise participants? Thank you, Michelle M. Whipple Coordinator, Fitness & Wellness Programming Purdue University Recreational Sports Center 355 N. Martin Jischke Drive West Lafayette, IN 47907-2030 Office: 765.496.6234 Fax: 765.496.1163 mwhipple at purdue.edu www.purdue.edu/recsports From grickert at coldstorage.com Thu Jun 25 19:26:43 2009 From: grickert at coldstorage.com (Gerrat Rickert) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:26:43 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outlook Indenting messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] >Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:56 AM >To: Gerrat Rickert; mailman-users at python.org >Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Outlook Indenting messages > >Gerrat Rickert wrote: > >>Recently, and in the past, when posting to a python mailing list (not >>this one specifically), my message has been indented and placed under >>the last message (of a completely unrelated post). >>-ie. it looks like I've hijacked a thread. > > >I assume you are talking about your message in the pipermail archive. >If so, can you point at one such in the archives of a list? Yes, this message: http://twistedmatrix.com/pipermail/twisted-python/2009-June/019859.html Thanks, Gerrat From mgordon at bren.ucsb.edu Thu Jun 25 20:08:25 2009 From: mgordon at bren.ucsb.edu (Maria Gordon) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:08:25 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Close a list Message-ID: Hi, Mailman Contact. Please could you tell me how to close a list. Thanks. Maria Gordon Office Manager Program on Governance for Sustainable Development Bren Hall 4526 Bren School of Environmental Science & Management University of California, Santa Barbara Santa Barbara, CA 93106-5131 USA Hours: Mon 9:30am - 1:30pm; Tues 9am - 5pm; Thurs 9am - 5pm Ph: +(805)893-8437 Fax: +(805)893-7064 http://www.gsdprogram.org/ http://www.bren.ucsb.edu/ From grickert at coldstorage.com Thu Jun 25 21:17:20 2009 From: grickert at coldstorage.com (Gerrat Rickert) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:17:20 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outlook Indenting messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] >Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 3:01 PM >To: Gerrat Rickert; mailman-users at python.org >Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Outlook Indenting messages > >Gerrat Rickert wrote: > >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] >>>Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:56 AM >>>To: Gerrat Rickert; mailman-users at python.org >>>Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Outlook Indenting messages >>> >>>Gerrat Rickert wrote: >>> >>>>Recently, and in the past, when posting to a python mailing list (not >>>>this one specifically), my message has been indented and placed under >>>>the last message (of a completely unrelated post). >>>>-ie. it looks like I've hijacked a thread. >>> >>> >>>I assume you are talking about your message in the pipermail archive. >>>If so, can you point at one such in the archives of a list? >> >> >>Yes, this message: >>http://twistedmatrix.com/pipermail/twisted-python/2009-June/019859.htm l > > >I see the incorrect threading of the above message in the index >. I also >see other threading anomalies in the same index. > >I downloaded the twisted-python.mbox/twisted-python.mbox file from >twistedmatrix.com and built the May and June archive from it in a test >2.1.9 Mailman. For example at the end of > I see >--------------------------------------------------------------- > >You can see in the twistedmatrix.com index two cases where the second >post in a thread is indented to level 3 instead of level 1 which is >clearly wrong. You can also see that in the archive I built, your >thread starts at level 0 as it should. > >Also note that this apparently has nothing to do with Outlook.. There >is a similarly indented post in early June - > >[Twisted-Python] Application Design help - Concurrent but not Protocols >based. Senthil Kumaran > >and the posting MUA in that case was Mutt. > >Also see > >where the only two posts (spam) are both indented to level 1. > >Does this occur only on twistedmatrix.com lists? There is clearly >something wrong with the archiving process on that site, but I can't >duplicate it in a stock 2.1.9 environment. Thanks for your detailed investigation, Mark. I may have misremembered how a previous posting of mine was mis-indented (...postings were from a few years back, and it may have just been that my replies were shown at the top level instead of indented - I believe this may have been an old bug with Outlook specifically). I don't have any other examples from other mailing lists, so let's assume it's just the twistedmatrix.com list for now. I'll forward this thread to their mailing list administrator to investigate. Thanks again for your help. Regards, Gerrat From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jun 26 00:34:58 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:34:58 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] new listserv In-Reply-To: <24E8B3EAFA77144C885BAB64D682A8EA05C73941@EXCH06.purdue.lcl> Message-ID: Whipple, Michelle M wrote: > >How do I go about setting up a new listserv for Purdue Group Exercise >participants? If you really want to set up a Listserv(r) mailing list, you're really in the wrong place, but even if you want to set up a Mailman mailing list, you probably want to talk to someone who administers Mailman at Purdue. This list can't help you with that specifically. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jun 26 00:39:44 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:39:44 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Close a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Maria Gordon wrote: > >Please could you tell me how to close a list. You need to talk to someone who administers Mailman at UCSB. If there is not a "Delete this mailing list" link on the list's admin web pages, and there usually isn't, only the Mailman site administrators can delete lists. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Fri Jun 26 05:28:37 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:28:37 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outlook Indenting messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A444065.2010601@riverviewtech.net> Gerrat Rickert wrote: > I may have misremembered how a previous posting of mine was > mis-indented (...postings were from a few years back, and it may have > just been that my replies were shown at the top level instead of > indented - I believe this may have been an old bug with Outlook > specifically). I don't know if it is related or not, but I have noticed a similar problem with my Mail <-> News gateway (included with Mailman). Specifically messages that I reply to the mailing list seem to loose the message ID of the immediate parent message and what should look like this: - first message + second message + third message Often - first message + second message + third message I have attributed this to the fact that Mailman either munges or out and out replaces the Message-ID. However, none of this is a hijacked thread as the Gerrat indicated. Grant. . . . From beta at admilon.net Fri Jun 26 13:22:13 2009 From: beta at admilon.net (Matthias Schmidt) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 20:22:13 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs OSX vs launchd In-Reply-To: References: <1DCE4BC5-CA96-4B5C-92D9-89EA775E4E9C@bryanharrison.com> Message-ID: <20090626112213.1991393157@mail.admilon.net> Am/On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:22:02 -0500 schrieb/wrote Larry Stone: >On 6/18/09 7:11 PM, Bryan Harrison at bryan at bryanharrison.com wrote: > >> I've built and installed Mailman 2.12 from current source code and >> have it running just fine under OS X Server 10.5.7, with on exception, >> which is not properly speaking a Mailman problem at all. >> >> If I start Mailman from the CLI, using /usr/share/mailman/bin/ >> mailmanctl -s start, all is well. >> >> If I allow launchd to start it >> SI get an endless succession ofS >> >> Jun 18 16:50:26 org.list.mailmanctl[1697]: Starting Mailman's master >> qrunner. >> Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl[1697]): >> Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 1698 PPID 1 Python >> Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling >> respawn: Will start in 9 seconds > >Known issue, no idea why. I've been running Mailman on Client OS X since the >Tiger days. As soon as I upgraded to Leopard, I started seeing this happen >intermittently. I have a launchd plist almost identical to yours. > >It is intermittent for me. Probably happens about 1 in 3 boots. I try to >remember to check that it's running after reboots. If not, I have a cron job >that runs hourly to check for the proper number of qrunners and send me >e-mail if any or all are missing. I have the same issue as Bryan (and my plist looks simular) and find this in my logs, when I start mailman via launchd, if I start it by CLI, I don't see this issue: Jun 26 20:16:29 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40673]: The master qrunner lock could not be acquired because it appears as if another Jun 26 20:16:29 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40673]: master qrunner is already running. Jun 26 20:16:29 myMac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling respawn: Will start in 9 seconds Jun 26 20:16:41 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40675]: The master qrunner lock could not be acquired because it appears as if another Jun 26 20:16:41 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40675]: master qrunner is already running. Jun 26 20:16:41 myMac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling respawn: Will start in 8 seconds Jun 26 20:16:52 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40680]: The master qrunner lock could not be acquired because it appears as if another Jun 26 20:16:52 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40680]: master qrunner is already running. Jun 26 20:16:52 myMac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling respawn: Will start in 8 seconds Jun 26 20:17:02 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40757]: The master qrunner lock could not be acquired because it appears as if another Jun 26 20:17:02 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40757]: master qrunner is already running. Jun 26 20:17:03 myMac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling respawn: Will start in 8 seconds Jun 26 20:17:13 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40760]: The master qrunner lock could not be acquired because it appears as if another Jun 26 20:17:13 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40760]: master qrunner is already running. Jun 26 20:17:13 myMac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling respawn: Will start in 8 seconds But I have this issue always on a 10.5.7 PPC-Server ..... So what would be the alternative? cheers, Matthias From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com Fri Jun 26 14:17:04 2009 From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:17:04 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs OSX vs launchd In-Reply-To: <20090626112213.1991393157@mail.admilon.net> Message-ID: On 6/26/09 6:22 AM, Matthias Schmidt at beta at admilon.net wrote: > Am/On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:22:02 -0500 schrieb/wrote Larry Stone: > >> On 6/18/09 7:11 PM, Bryan Harrison at bryan at bryanharrison.com wrote: >> >>> I've built and installed Mailman 2.12 from current source code and >>> have it running just fine under OS X Server 10.5.7, with on exception, >>> which is not properly speaking a Mailman problem at all. >>> >>> If I start Mailman from the CLI, using /usr/share/mailman/bin/ >>> mailmanctl -s start, all is well. >>> >>> If I allow launchd to start it >>> SI get an endless succession ofS >>> >>> Jun 18 16:50:26 org.list.mailmanctl[1697]: Starting Mailman's master >>> qrunner. >>> Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl[1697]): >>> Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 1698 PPID 1 Python >>> Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling >>> respawn: Will start in 9 seconds >> >> Known issue, no idea why. I've been running Mailman on Client OS X since the >> Tiger days. As soon as I upgraded to Leopard, I started seeing this happen >> intermittently. I have a launchd plist almost identical to yours. >> >> It is intermittent for me. Probably happens about 1 in 3 boots. I try to >> remember to check that it's running after reboots. If not, I have a cron job >> that runs hourly to check for the proper number of qrunners and send me >> e-mail if any or all are missing. > > I have the same issue as Bryan (and my plist looks simular) and find > this in my logs, when I start mailman via launchd, if I start it by CLI, > I don't see this issue: > > Jun 26 20:16:29 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40673]: The master qrunner > lock could not be acquired because it appears as if another > Jun 26 20:16:29 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40673]: master qrunner is > already running. > Jun 26 20:16:29 myMac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): > Throttling respawn: Will start in 9 seconds > Jun 26 20:16:41 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40675]: The master qrunner > lock could not be acquired because it appears as if another > Jun 26 20:16:41 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40675]: master qrunner is > already running. > Jun 26 20:16:41 myMac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): > Throttling respawn: Will start in 8 seconds > Jun 26 20:16:52 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40680]: The master qrunner > lock could not be acquired because it appears as if another > Jun 26 20:16:52 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40680]: master qrunner is > already running. > Jun 26 20:16:52 myMac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): > Throttling respawn: Will start in 8 seconds > Jun 26 20:17:02 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40757]: The master qrunner > lock could not be acquired because it appears as if another > Jun 26 20:17:02 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40757]: master qrunner is > already running. > Jun 26 20:17:03 myMac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): > Throttling respawn: Will start in 8 seconds > Jun 26 20:17:13 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40760]: The master qrunner > lock could not be acquired because it appears as if another > Jun 26 20:17:13 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40760]: master qrunner is > already running. > Jun 26 20:17:13 myMac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): > Throttling respawn: Will start in 8 seconds This is not the same issue as Bryan and I have. The log entries you have posted indicate that you are trying to start Mailman twice (the issue Bryan and I have is Mailman dying with the "stray process" message). Perhaps you have two different launchd scripts that try to to start Mailman. Launchd looks in both /System/Library/LaunchDaemons and /Library/LaunchDaemons. The former is supposed to be for Apple provided scripts with the latter for user/3rd party application scripts. My "mailman.plist" is in /Library/LaunchDaemons but you should check both and grep for mailmanctl. -- Larry Stone lstone19 at stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de Fri Jun 26 13:49:57 2009 From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:49:57 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs OSX vs launchd In-Reply-To: <20090626112213.1991393157@mail.admilon.net> References: <1DCE4BC5-CA96-4B5C-92D9-89EA775E4E9C@bryanharrison.com> <20090626112213.1991393157@mail.admilon.net> Message-ID: --On 26. Juni 2009 20:22:13 +0900 Matthias Schmidt wrote: > Am/On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:22:02 -0500 schrieb/wrote Larry Stone: > >> On 6/18/09 7:11 PM, Bryan Harrison at bryan at bryanharrison.com wrote: >> >>> I've built and installed Mailman 2.12 from current source code and >>> have it running just fine under OS X Server 10.5.7, with on exception, >>> which is not properly speaking a Mailman problem at all. >>> >>> If I start Mailman from the CLI, using /usr/share/mailman/bin/ >>> mailmanctl -s start, all is well. >>> >>> If I allow launchd to start it >>> SI get an endless succession ofS >>> >>> Jun 18 16:50:26 org.list.mailmanctl[1697]: Starting Mailman's master >>> qrunner. >>> Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl[1697]): >>> Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 1698 PPID 1 Python >>> Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling >>> respawn: Will start in 9 seconds The reason this happens is that launchd expects the processes it launches to stick around. They must not daemonize. But mailmanctl terminates after it has started the runners. I assume that Apple modified their own distribution of Mailman so that mailmanctl behaves differently. I'd suggest comparing the two. -- .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Geb?ude 52), Zimmer 18.:. .:.Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK).:. .:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ? +49-221-478-5587.:. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 194 bytes Desc: not available URL: From barry at list.org Fri Jun 26 15:33:21 2009 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:33:21 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs OSX vs launchd In-Reply-To: References: <1DCE4BC5-CA96-4B5C-92D9-89EA775E4E9C@bryanharrison.com> <20090626112213.1991393157@mail.admilon.net> Message-ID: On Jun 26, 2009, at 7:49 AM, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > The reason this happens is that launchd expects the processes it > launches to stick around. They must not daemonize. But mailmanctl > terminates after it has started the runners. I assume that Apple > modified their own distribution of Mailman so that mailmanctl > behaves differently. I'd suggest comparing the two. FWIW in MM3, the two functions of mailmanctl have been split into two separate scripts. bin/master is the master queue runner watcher script and it does not daemonize. bin/mailmanctl is simply the control interface to master and it does daemonize. There may not be too much Mailman3-ish about the new scripts so it could be backported (though it probably requires Python 2.6 or possibly 2.5). -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 832 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From beta at admilon.net Fri Jun 26 16:05:30 2009 From: beta at admilon.net (Matthias Schmidt) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:05:30 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs OSX vs launchd In-Reply-To: References: <1DCE4BC5-CA96-4B5C-92D9-89EA775E4E9C@bryanharrison.com> <20090626112213.1991393157@mail.admilon.net> Message-ID: <20090626140530.1133364820@mail.admilon.net> Am/On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:49:57 +0200 schrieb/wrote Sebastian Hagedorn: >--On 26. Juni 2009 20:22:13 +0900 Matthias Schmidt wrote: > >> Am/On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:22:02 -0500 schrieb/wrote Larry Stone: >> >>> On 6/18/09 7:11 PM, Bryan Harrison at bryan at bryanharrison.com wrote: >>> >>>> I've built and installed Mailman 2.12 from current source code and >>>> have it running just fine under OS X Server 10.5.7, with on exception, >>>> which is not properly speaking a Mailman problem at all. >>>> >>>> If I start Mailman from the CLI, using /usr/share/mailman/bin/ >>>> mailmanctl -s start, all is well. >>>> >>>> If I allow launchd to start it >>>> SI get an endless succession ofS >>>> >>>> Jun 18 16:50:26 org.list.mailmanctl[1697]: Starting Mailman's master >>>> qrunner. >>>> Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl[1697]): >>>> Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 1698 PPID 1 Python >>>> Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling >>>> respawn: Will start in 9 seconds > >The reason this happens is that launchd expects the processes it launches >to stick around. They must not daemonize. But mailmanctl terminates after >it has started the runners. I assume that Apple modified their own >distribution of Mailman so that mailmanctl behaves differently. I'd suggest >comparing the two. thanks, that was the information I missed and it also explains why Apple uses -startf in the plist, which is not documented for mailman. I meanwhile found out, that the voodoo here is to use mailmanctl from the original Apple distribution. cheers, Matthias From drew.tenenholz at isid.org Fri Jun 26 16:07:08 2009 From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:07:08 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs OSX vs launchd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Larry & Bryan -- If it helps you at all, I saw the same problems with launchd on my Mailman 2.1.11 install on Mac OS X Server 10.5.5 when we migrated that machine to 10.5 from 10.4. We abandoned launchd in favor of the older /Library/StartupItems/ method and have had no problems since then. I know that we'll have to replace this with launchd at some point, so please keep us informed if you find true solution to the problem. Drew Tenenholz From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jun 26 17:18:48 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 08:18:48 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outlook Indenting messages In-Reply-To: <4A444065.2010601@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: Grant Taylor wrote: >Gerrat Rickert wrote: >> I may have misremembered how a previous posting of mine was >> mis-indented (...postings were from a few years back, and it may have >> just been that my replies were shown at the top level instead of >> indented - I believe this may have been an old bug with Outlook >> specifically). > >I don't know if it is related or not, but I have noticed a similar >problem with my Mail <-> News gateway (included with Mailman). >Specifically messages that I reply to the mailing list seem to loose the >message ID of the immediate parent message and what should look like this: > > - first message > + second message > + third message > >Often > > - first message > + second message > + third message > >I have attributed this to the fact that Mailman either munges or out and >out replaces the Message-ID. I think this is unrelated to any of Gerrat's issues. Mailman does replace the Message-ID header in messages gated from a list to usenet. The reason for this is if a message is cross-posted to two Mailman lists, both of which gateway to usenet groups, the messages will be separately gated to the nntp server, and if they have the same Message-ID, the nntp server will ignore the second one it receives. This can lead to the issue above because messages posted to a list will have one Message-ID in the list archive and a different Message-ID on usenet. Suppose 'second message' above is a reply to 'first message' from the list. Its In-Reply-To: and References: headers reference the list Message-ID of 'first message and it is properly threaded in the list archive. Then 'third message' is a usenet reply to 'second message'. Since it is a usenet reply, its In-Reply-To: references the usenet Message-ID of 'second message' which is unknown to the list archive. Its References: header will reference the usnet Message-ID of 'second message' and the list Message-ID of 'first message' from the References: header of 'second message'. Thus, when it gets archived, it is threaded as a reply to 'first message' since that is the only referenced Message-ID known to the archiver. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com Fri Jun 26 18:06:40 2009 From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:06:40 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs OSX vs launchd In-Reply-To: References: <1DCE4BC5-CA96-4B5C-92D9-89EA775E4E9C@bryanharrison.com> <20090626112213.1991393157@mail.admilon.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Jun 2009, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: >>> On 6/18/09 7:11 PM, Bryan Harrison at bryan at bryanharrison.com wrote: >>> >>>> If I allow launchd to start it >>>> SI get an endless succession ofS >>>> >>>> Jun 18 16:50:26 org.list.mailmanctl[1697]: Starting Mailman's master >>>> qrunner. >>>> Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl[1697]): >>>> Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 1698 PPID 1 Python >>>> Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling >>>> respawn: Will start in 9 seconds I just caught that Bryan notes that he receives an "endless succession" of those messages where as I see one and that's it. Comparing our launchd .plist files, I see a few differences: Bryan: OnDemand Me: OnDemand RunAtLoad Bryan does not have RunAtLoad but the default is false. I think this is why he sees the "endless succession" and I don't. Wiht RunAtLoad but OnDemand set true, my system tries once at startup and that's it. Bryan, due to OnDemand being false (meaning keep it running continuously), keeps trying. Another difference (but I think making no difference is: Bryan: Program /usr/share/mailman/bin/mailmanctl ProgramArguments mailmanctl -s start Me: ProgramArguments /Applications/Mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start I don't have a Program key. I don't think this is relevant as I specify the full path in ProgramArguments which Bryan does not need to do since he specified the path in Program. > The reason this happens is that launchd expects the processes it > launches to stick around. They must not daemonize. But mailmanctl > terminates after it has started the runners. I assume that Apple > modified their own distribution of Mailman so that mailmanctl behaves > differently. I'd suggest comparing the two. I'm not so sure. It worked fine for me under Tiger (client). Drew reports the same thing with OS X Server - worked fine under Tiger (10.4.x) and then the same problems as the rest of us with Leopard. Also, I can't say I agree that launchd expects the program to stick around. With it the way I have it set (RunAtLoad true and OnDemand true), it makes one attempt at startup and does not care after that whether it started or not. I'll note that I also have Clam-AV's daemon (clamd) starting the same way and it seems to work OK but some of the technical issues of launching daemon with launchd are beyond me. However, the launchd.plist(5) man page says: EXPECTATIONS Daemons or agents managed by launchd are expected to behave certain ways. A daemon or agent launched by launchd MUST NOT do the following in the process directly launched by launchd: o fork(2) and have the parent process exit(3) or _exit(2). o Call daemon(3) A daemon or agent launched by launchd SHOULD NOT do the following as a part of their startup initialization: Setup the user ID or group ID. o Setup the working directory. o chroot(2) o setsid(2) o Close "stray" file descriptors. o Change stdio(3) to /dev/null. o Setup resource limits with setrusage(2). o Setup priority with setpriority(2). o Ignore the SIGTERM signal. A daemon or agent launched by launchd SHOULD: o Launch on demand given criteria specified in the XML property list. More information can be found in launch(3). o Catch the SIGTERM signal. I'll leave it to those better into the technical end of things to interpret that relative to what mailmanctl does. -- Larry Stone lstone19 at stonejongleux.com From beta at admilon.net Sat Jun 27 13:50:45 2009 From: beta at admilon.net (Matthias Schmidt) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 20:50:45 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs OSX vs launchd In-Reply-To: References: <1DCE4BC5-CA96-4B5C-92D9-89EA775E4E9C@bryanharrison.com> <20090626112213.1991393157@mail.admilon.net> Message-ID: <20090627115045.535699183@mail.admilon.net> Am/On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:06:40 -0500 schrieb/wrote Larry Stone: >On Fri, 26 Jun 2009, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > >>>> On 6/18/09 7:11 PM, Bryan Harrison at bryan at bryanharrison.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> If I allow launchd to start it >>>>> SI get an endless succession ofS >>>>> >>>>> Jun 18 16:50:26 org.list.mailmanctl[1697]: Starting Mailman's master >>>>> qrunner. >>>>> Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl[1697]): >>>>> Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 1698 PPID 1 Python >>>>> Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling >>>>> respawn: Will start in 9 seconds > >I just caught that Bryan notes that he receives an "endless succession" of >those messages where as I see one and that's it. > >Comparing our launchd .plist files, I see a few differences: >Bryan: > OnDemand > >Me: > OnDemand > > RunAtLoad > Larry, you are my hero, thanks! That looks like working :-) cheers, Matthias From khillo100 at hotmail.com Sun Jun 28 19:28:13 2009 From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:28:13 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam Filters .. Message-ID: if I want all messages to my list to be discarded and not shown in the pending moderator requests except for only one email address which I'm using to send to the list .. how can I do that thru spam filters ?? Thanks .. _________________________________________________________________ Drag n? drop?Get easy photo sharing with Windows Live? Photos. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/photos.aspx From malcolm.austen at weald.org.uk Sun Jun 28 21:20:39 2009 From: malcolm.austen at weald.org.uk (Malcolm Austen) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:20:39 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam Filters .. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:28:13 +0100, Khalil Abbas wrote: > if I want all messages to my list to be discarded and not shown in the > pending moderator requests except for only one email address which I'm > using to send to the list .. how can I do that thru spam filters ?? Why do you want to use the spam filtering? I think it would be easier to set all member posts to be discarded and for you to post from a non-member address that is given permission to post. If you really want to do it with the spam filters, you need two. The first must accept your messages and the second must discard everything. regards, Malcolm. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From kwz-mm at commpartners.com Mon Jun 29 00:34:02 2009 From: kwz-mm at commpartners.com (Karl Zander) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:34:02 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detecting Autoresponders Message-ID: Is there something specific Mailman is looking for to detect autoreponders, like Out of Office messages? We had an incident this weekend with an autoresponder sending an out of office message over and over and over....to a list. This particular autoresponder is not known to be broken. Its worked well in the past with Mailman. I note the header of the message from the autoresponder contains X-Autogenerated: Reply But I am not sure what Mailman looks at when trying to determine what is an out of office or other automatic message. --Karl From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jun 29 03:15:11 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:15:11 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detecting Autoresponders In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Karl Zander wrote: >Is there something specific Mailman is looking for to detect autoreponders, like Out of Office messages? We had an incident this weekend with an autoresponder sending an out of office message over and over and over....to a list. > [...] > >But I am not sure what Mailman looks at when trying to determine what is an out of office or other automatic message. As far as posting to a list is concerned, Mailman is looking for an X-BeenThere: header with the list address. It does look at a Precedence: header and will not process commands from or autorespond to Precedence 'bulk', 'junk' or 'list' messages, but it will forward them to the list if they aren't held, rejected or discarded for some other reason. It doesn't specifically try to identify autoresponses. I would say the autoresponder is broken if it is responding repeatedly to the same address on behalf of the same recipient. I would also say it's broken it it responds to the list for an individual message (not a digest) unless the list is anonymous and puts the list address in the From: of delevered posts. Finally, this is probably more controversial, but I think it's broken if it can't identify its own autoresponses from Message-ID: or something else and not respond to one of its own messages. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Mon Jun 29 07:27:22 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:27:22 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detecting Autoresponders In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A4850BA.6080606@riverviewtech.net> On 6/28/2009 8:15 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > I would say the autoresponder is broken if it is responding > repeatedly to the same address on behalf of the same recipient. I > would also say it's broken it it responds to the list for an > individual message (not a digest) unless the list is anonymous and > puts the list address in the From: of delevered posts. Finally, this > is probably more controversial, but I think it's broken if it can't > identify its own autoresponses from Message-ID: or something else and > not respond to one of its own messages. I *REALLY* /wish/ that was the case. I've got an end user that has set up an Out of Office (a.k.a. OoO) auto-reply in Outlook that is replying to every frigging message that comes in. OoO auto responders usually reply to the From: (header) address of messages as they have on concept of the SMTP envelope sender. So if the mailing list either sets the From: or Reply-To: header, that's where the OoO replies will go. I have seen more than a few OoO auto-responders that generate a completely new message to the From: / Reply-To: address with out any form of identification as to who it is replying to. In my opinion, OoO auto responders are probably some of the worst things in email. I've been in an environment where two OoO auto responders were battling with each other and generated almost 100,000 messages over a weekend. Grant. . . . From beta at admilon.net Mon Jun 29 07:47:21 2009 From: beta at admilon.net (Matthias Schmidt) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:47:21 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detecting Autoresponders In-Reply-To: <4A4850BA.6080606@riverviewtech.net> References: <4A4850BA.6080606@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <20090629054721.285427400@mail.admilon.net> Am/On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:27:22 -0500 schrieb/wrote Grant Taylor: >On 6/28/2009 8:15 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> I would say the autoresponder is broken if it is responding >> repeatedly to the same address on behalf of the same recipient. I >> would also say it's broken it it responds to the list for an >> individual message (not a digest) unless the list is anonymous and >> puts the list address in the From: of delevered posts. Finally, this >> is probably more controversial, but I think it's broken if it can't >> identify its own autoresponses from Message-ID: or something else and >> not respond to one of its own messages. > >I *REALLY* /wish/ that was the case. I've got an end user that has set >up an Out of Office (a.k.a. OoO) auto-reply in Outlook that is replying >to every frigging message that comes in. > >OoO auto responders usually reply to the From: (header) address of >messages as they have on concept of the SMTP envelope sender. So if the >mailing list either sets the From: or Reply-To: header, that's where the >OoO replies will go. > >I have seen more than a few OoO auto-responders that generate a >completely new message to the From: / Reply-To: address with out any >form of identification as to who it is replying to. > >In my opinion, OoO auto responders are probably some of the worst things >in email. I've been in an environment where two OoO auto responders >were battling with each other and generated almost 100,000 messages over >a weekend. we immediately ban people sending autoresponses to a list. We've put that in our list rules. Basically it's up to the list participant to set up his/her autoresponder to not reply to any list messages. Probably one could set up a filter or something to catch most of the autoresponses and filter them out. cheers, Matthias From brad at fineby.me.uk Mon Jun 29 11:39:41 2009 From: brad at fineby.me.uk (Brad Rogers) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:39:41 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detecting Autoresponders In-Reply-To: <4A4850BA.6080606@riverviewtech.net> References: <4A4850BA.6080606@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <20090629103941.62bed373@abydos.stargate.org.uk> On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:27:22 -0500 Grant Taylor wrote: Hello Grant, > OoO auto responders usually reply to the From: (header) address of > messages as they have on concept of the SMTP envelope sender. So if Like Matthias, I ban users that use auto-responders. No amount of begging, apologising or offering me money(0) has, so far, got any of the offenders back on my lists. (0) Okay, so no-one has /actually/ offered me money, but I live in hope. :-) -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" A friend of a friend he got beaten I Predict A Riot - Kaiser Chiefs -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 489 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Mon Jun 29 12:37:03 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 05:37:03 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detecting Autoresponders In-Reply-To: <20090629103941.62bed373@abydos.stargate.org.uk> References: <4A4850BA.6080606@riverviewtech.net> <20090629103941.62bed373@abydos.stargate.org.uk> Message-ID: <4A48994F.1020100@riverviewtech.net> Brad Rogers wrote: > Hello Grant, Hi. > Like Matthias, I ban users that use auto-responders. No amount of > begging, apologising or offering me money(0) has, so far, got any of > the offenders back on my lists. Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing with you about banning people. Rather I was commenting on the p*@s poor implementations of OoO auto responders that I've run across. > (0) Okay, so no-one has /actually/ offered me money, but I live in > hope. :-) I'll hoist a glass to that hope. Grant. . . . From barry at list.org Mon Jun 29 15:10:26 2009 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:10:26 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detecting Autoresponders In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jun 28, 2009, at 6:34 PM, Karl Zander wrote: > Is there something specific Mailman is looking for to detect > autoreponders, like Out of Office messages? We had an incident this > weekend with an autoresponder sending an out of office message over > and over and over....to a list. > > This particular autoresponder is not known to be broken. Its worked > well in the past with Mailman. If it's replying to message with a Precedence: header (and any value) it's broken. > I note the header of the message from the autoresponder contains > > X-Autogenerated: Reply Can anybody find a reference for the semantics of X-Autogenerated? I'd be willing to add a rule for this but I'd need to find a reference. Note too my Replybot program for an automatic email reply system done right. :) -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 832 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwz-mm at commpartners.com Mon Jun 29 21:04:26 2009 From: kwz-mm at commpartners.com (Karl Zander) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:04:26 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detecting Autoresponders In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:15:11 -0700 Mark Sapiro wrote: > >As far as posting to a list is concerned, Mailman is looking for an >X-BeenThere: header with the list address. It does look at a >Precedence: header and will not process commands from or autorespond >to Precedence 'bulk', 'junk' or 'list' messages, but it will forward >them to the list if they aren't held, rejected or discarded for some >other reason. It doesn't specifically try to identify autoresponses. I think I found out what happened. The mailserver has a built in rule that people can enable for out of office messages. That rule knows how to deal with lists. It actually checks that the message header does not contain any of the following fields: Precedence: bulk Precedence: junk Precedence: list X-List* X-Mirror* X-Auto* X-Mailing-List and will not auto respond if it does. However, the built in rule only responds once to a message and tracks the address so it does not send the out of office again. Well, staff did not like that. So another rule was created that responded to every message with the out of office. That rule did not do any of the Precedence checks and quite happily created the loop. The servers built in autoresponder is not broken, but the other rule is. Thanks everyone for your input. --Karl From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Tue Jun 30 03:46:09 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:46:09 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detecting Autoresponders In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A496E61.9040309@riverviewtech.net> On 6/29/2009 8:10 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > Can anybody find a reference for the semantics of X-Autogenerated? I'd > be willing to add a rule for this but I'd need to find a reference. Take a look at section 5, "The Auto-Submitted header field" of RFC 3834. (http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3834.txt). I think you are meaning the "Auto-Submitted:" header and the "auto-generated" value. Grant. . . . From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Tue Jun 30 03:47:26 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:47:26 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detecting Autoresponders In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A496EAE.5090707@riverviewtech.net> (Sorry, forgot to include this.) On 6/29/2009 8:10 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > If it's replying to message with a Precedence: header (and any value) > it's broken. You may want to take a look at section 3.9, "Quality information" of RFC 2076 (http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2076.txt). Grant. . . . From barry at python.org Tue Jun 30 03:51:22 2009 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:51:22 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detecting Autoresponders In-Reply-To: <4A496E61.9040309@riverviewtech.net> References: <4A496E61.9040309@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <2AE38EAC-12B7-4494-A808-4B8C7F27653A@python.org> On Jun 29, 2009, at 9:46 PM, Grant Taylor wrote: > On 6/29/2009 8:10 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: >> Can anybody find a reference for the semantics of X-Autogenerated? >> I'd be willing to add a rule for this but I'd need to find a >> reference. > > Take a look at section 5, "The Auto-Submitted header field" of RFC > 3834. (http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3834.txt). > > I think you are meaning the "Auto-Submitted:" header and the "auto- > generated" value. Thanks. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 832 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From barry at python.org Tue Jun 30 03:52:24 2009 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:52:24 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detecting Autoresponders In-Reply-To: <4A496EAE.5090707@riverviewtech.net> References: <4A496EAE.5090707@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: On Jun 29, 2009, at 9:47 PM, Grant Taylor wrote: > (Sorry, forgot to include this.) > > On 6/29/2009 8:10 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: >> If it's replying to message with a Precedence: header (and any >> value) it's broken. > > You may want to take a look at section 3.9, "Quality information" of > RFC 2076 (http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2076.txt). Sure, Precedence may be discouraged, but it's pretty common practice. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 832 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Tue Jun 30 05:20:40 2009 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:20:40 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detecting Autoresponders In-Reply-To: <2AE38EAC-12B7-4494-A808-4B8C7F27653A@python.org> References: <4A496E61.9040309@riverviewtech.net> <2AE38EAC-12B7-4494-A808-4B8C7F27653A@python.org> Message-ID: <4A498488.20103@riverviewtech.net> On 6/29/2009 8:51 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > Thanks. You are welcome. Most things are documented if you know where to look. ;) Grant. . . . From stephen at xemacs.org Tue Jun 30 05:32:48 2009 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:32:48 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detecting Autoresponders In-Reply-To: References: <4A496EAE.5090707@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <87ocs6wg4f.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Barry Warsaw writes: > On Jun 29, 2009, at 9:47 PM, Grant Taylor wrote: > > > (Sorry, forgot to include this.) > > > > On 6/29/2009 8:10 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > >> If it's replying to message with a Precedence: header (and any > >> value) it's broken. > > > > You may want to take a look at section 3.9, "Quality information" of > > RFC 2076 (http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2076.txt). > > Sure, Precedence may be discouraged, but it's pretty common practice. Amusingly enough, the most recent update of 2076 (see http://people.dsv.su.se/~jpalme/ietf/mail-headers/mail-headers.html) remarks that "more problems with Precedence" were added in its changes documentation. :-)