From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar  1 02:29:40 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 17:29:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one list not sending to members
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0902271058420.441@volt.txcorp.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200902281729400031e33cec07@msapiro>

Anne M. Hammond wrote:
>
>smtp:
>
>Feb 27 00:54:41 2009 (16639) 
><BB5CEB80-5EDE-4520-BA7E-CE770B365B1C at lab.gov> smtp to extremeintegration 
>for 2 recips, completed in 0.165 seconds
>
>(I understand this to mean that there are 2 recipients, not the 20 
>list members.)
>
>When I look at /var/log/maillog, there is a message to me and the sender:


So the list finds only 2 eligible recipients for the message because
the other 18 members are subscribed to the digest or have delivery
disabled or possibly because of regular_exclude_lists if this list has
any configured.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar  1 02:49:43 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 17:49:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password sends
In-Reply-To: <20090228182036.67E2E5F5B1@friskymail-a1.g.dreamhost.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009022817494305316b96787e@msapiro>

Michael Welch wrote:

>What is supposed to happen when a non-listmember tries to get a password reminder from the member options page?
>
>I tried it myself after trying to figure out if a member was using the wrong email address, and the web page said, "A reminder of your password has been emailed to you."
>
>But nothing ever arrived. I tried this with two different non-subscribed addresses that do not have spam filters on them. I do not have access to logs to answer more questions, this is a DreamHost implementation.


The issue is your list's membership is not public, so we can't reveal
that the person requesting the reminder is not a member or this could
be used to fish for list membership. Granted the message should be
better (i.e. more ambiguous about whether the reminder is actually
sent), but the bottom line is if the address is a non-member, no
reminder is sent.


>I also discovered that one of my four lists doesn't even send out the passwords to subscribed members after saying the reminders were sent. I tried this on my own subscribed name and it failed. If folks can tell me what might be wrong here as well, I will pass it on to DreamHost tech support which has been quite responsive in the past.


Reminders are supposed to work for subscribed members. I don't know why
they wouldn't. As a debug technique, you could temporarily set

Who can view subscription list?
(Details for private_roster)

on the Privacy options... -> Subscription rules page to Anyone and
request a reminder. Then you should get either "A reminder of your
password has been emailed to you." or "No such member: <address>". You
will get the latter if for some reason Mailman thinks <address> is not
a list member. If you get the former, A reminder should be sent, and I
have no idea why it wouldn't be.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ed at corcorans.org  Sun Mar  1 00:10:05 2009
From: ed at corcorans.org (Ed Corcoran)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:10:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying Entire Membership List
Message-ID: <49A9C44D.3060209@corcorans.org>

I have 1869 members on my mailing list. My Membership List only displays 152 of them -- 150 in 
blocks of 50 (as per my Chunk Size) and a 4th page with only 2.

I have added and subtracted members with no problem, and when I send a message it apparently goes to 
everyone, but I can only see the 152 in the listing.

A number of those I added since then I marked NO to both

 >Send welcome messages to new subscribees?
 >Send notifications of new subscriptions to the list owner?

Does that mean the list didn't even add to itself??

What do I have to do to get all the members to show up on the Membership List??

Ed Corcoran


From glueck at igroup.de  Sun Mar  1 14:31:38 2009
From: glueck at igroup.de (=?iso-8859-1?q?=4f=6c=69=76=65=72=20=47=6c=fc=63=6b?=)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 14:31:38 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error: Unknown virtual host: short-servername
Message-ID: <200903011331.n21DVcK5006398@post.webmailer.de>

Hi,

ok, my mm_cfg.py looks as yours below.
And after bin/withlist ....
I get still the "Error: Unknown virtual host: short-servername"
if I want to create a list with the web administration.

I think, my web configuration is ok, mailman.conf in /etc/apache2/conf.d :
ScriptAlias /mailman/       /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
Alias   /pipermail/     /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
<Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/">
        AddDefaultCharset Off
</Directory>

Whats wrong?
Now, I want to try to create a list on the command line...
It works from the command line!
And I can modify the list with the web. But not create.
Now, I will check the list emails.... cu later again ...
------------------
It seems like the following should work

MTA = 'Postfix'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'short-servername.intern.company.de'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'company.com'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear ()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST , DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST )
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['company.com']

as long as you always access the web interface via
http://short-servername.intern.company.de/... URLs, but these URLs
will also be visible in the headers of list posts unless you set
include_rfc2369_headers to No.



From glueck at igroup.de  Sun Mar  1 15:40:36 2009
From: glueck at igroup.de (=?iso-8859-1?q?=4f=6c=69=76=65=72=20=47=6c=fc=63=6b?=)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 15:40:36 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] It works! :-)
Message-ID: <200903011440.n21Eeamw026760@post.webmailer.de>

Hi,

after a reboot,
- create with web gui works
- mails delivered !!

Fine. :-)

Now I have to configure some email templates...

Thanks a lot !!!!!!!!!!
Oliver

----- original Nachricht --------

Betreff: Error: Unknown virtual host: short-servername
Gesendet: So, 01. Mrz 2009
Von: Oliver Gl?ck

Hi,

ok, my mm_cfg.py looks as yours below.
And after bin/withlist ....
I get still the "Error: Unknown virtual host: short-servername"
if I want to create a list with the web administration.

I think, my web configuration is ok, mailman.conf in /etc/apache2/conf.d :
ScriptAlias /mailman/       /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
Alias   /pipermail/     /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
<Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/">
        AddDefaultCharset Off
</Directory>

Whats wrong?
Now, I want to try to create a list on the command line...
It works from the command line!
And I can modify the list with the web. But not create.
Now, I will check the list emails.... cu later again ...
------------------
It seems like the following should work

MTA = 'Postfix'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'short-servername.intern.company.de'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'company.com'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear ()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST , DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST )
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['company.com']

as long as you always access the web interface via
http://short-servername.intern.company.de/... URLs, but these URLs
will also be visible in the headers of list posts unless you set
include_rfc2369_headers to No.




--- original Nachricht Ende ----

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar  1 16:22:28 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 07:22:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying Entire Membership List
In-Reply-To: <49A9C44D.3060209@corcorans.org>
Message-ID: <PC187020090301072228057864568f1e@msapiro>

Ed Corcoran wrote:

>I have 1869 members on my mailing list.


How do you know ?


>My Membership List only displays 152 of them -- 150 in 
>blocks of 50 (as per my Chunk Size) and a 4th page with only 2.


What Mailman version is this and where are you seeing these members?

This is not the way the Membership Management... -> Membership List
page in recent Mailman works. If there are more than
admin_member_chunksize members, the list is broken into pages by the
first character of the email address. Prior to 2.1.12 there was a bug
that wouldn't show the pages for addresses beginning with a
non-alphanumeric, but that's unlikely to affect more than a few of
your members.


>I have added and subtracted members with no problem, and when I send a message it apparently goes to 
>everyone, but I can only see the 152 in the listing.
>
>A number of those I added since then I marked NO to both
>
> >Send welcome messages to new subscribees?
> >Send notifications of new subscriptions to the list owner?
>
>Does that mean the list didn't even add to itself??


No.


>What do I have to do to get all the members to show up on the Membership List??


They should be there. If members are hidden, they may not show up on
the "roster" page depending on Mailman version and how you
authenticated, but all members should be on the Membership
Management... -> Membership List pages in any case.

What does the heading of this table look like? It should be something
similar to

                415 members total, 16 shown
[A]  B  C  D  E  F  G  H  I  J  K  L  M  N  O  P  R  S  T  V  W  Z


You aren't by chance seeing only the 152 "A"s (or whatever's first) and
never looking at the other letters/digits?

If there are more than admin_member_chunksize memners in one "letter",
there will be links at the bottom of the table to see the other
members within that "letter" but you still have to click the other
letters to see the other members.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar  1 16:36:30 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 07:36:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Extract list members from unaccessible domain
In-Reply-To: <F3330111A1B9BB479FEE51E5F89966100100B2A7@errol.admin.bis-school.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020090301073630035962b56605@msapiro>

Singbartl, Thomas wrote:

>due to my own  stupidity I lost my domain as it expired and someone else grabbed it immediately.
>I have one particular mailing list, that I want to recover and move it to my new domain. I only need email adresses.
>I already contacted my provider who hosts mailman, but with no backend access for me. They send me the zipped folder of that list, which is pretty useless. 


I don't know for sure what they sent you, but if it is the contents of
lists/LISTNAME, it has what you need. lists/LISTNAME/config.pck has
everything Mailman knows about that list except for archives. The
problem is you need a working Mailman installation to use it.

You could just run something like

  strings config.pck

and edit the output of that to get email addresses.


>I read 3.62. How do I extract a list of my list's members (subscribers)? of the FAQ, but this only works if the domain still exists. 
>What do I have to tell my provider to send me to get the e-mail adresses (the list still exists and is configured on their server).


You could ask them to send you the output from Mailman's

 bin/list_members -f -p listname

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Sun Mar  1 20:05:55 2009
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 13:05:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying Entire Membership List
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090301072228057864568f1e@msapiro>
References: <PC187020090301072228057864568f1e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1235934355.6854.2.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Sun, 2009-03-01 at 07:22 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> You aren't by chance seeing only the 152 "A"s (or whatever's first) and
> never looking at the other letters/digits?

Definitive count of list members:

  sudo su - mailman
  list_members <listname> |wc -l

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "The difference between |     PGP public key
FMP Computer Services |  a duck is because one  |      available at
512-259-1190          |  leg is both the same"  | http://pubkeys.fmp.com
http://www.fmp.com    |       - Anonymous       |


From noc at iem.at  Mon Mar  2 12:04:14 2009
From: noc at iem.at (IEM - network operating center (IOhannes m zmoelnig))
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:04:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to change the List-ID (RFC2919)
Message-ID: <49ABBD2E.50400@iem.at>

hi all.

after moving a mailinglist from one domain to another, i was wondering 
how i can keep the old List-ID (according to RFC2919 the List-ID (or the 
address-part therein) should not change, even if the list-address changes)

i have found an open bug-report regarding this:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/266142

but no solution. is there one? preferrably without having to hack the 
sources :-)


fgmasdr
IOhannes


-- 
IEM - network operation center
mailto:noc at iem.at

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  2 16:31:46 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 07:31:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to change the List-ID (RFC2919)
In-Reply-To: <49ABBD2E.50400@iem.at>
Message-ID: <PC187020090302073146056297ba7fe0@msapiro>

IEM - network operating center (IOhannes m zmoelnig) wrote:
>
>after moving a mailinglist from one domain to another, i was wondering 
>how i can keep the old List-ID (according to RFC2919 the List-ID (or the 
>address-part therein) should not change, even if the list-address changes)


Correct. It SHOULD not change, but it MAY. It is not desirable, but it
is permissible.


>i have found an open bug-report regarding this:
>https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/266142
>
>but no solution. is there one? preferrably without having to hack the 
>sources :-)


The only solution that doesn't involve hacking code is to not change
the host_name of the list, but since the host_name is the domain that
is exposed in all list email addresses, that is clearly not a
practical solution.

Otherwise, you'd need to modify Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py in some
way.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From noc at iem.at  Mon Mar  2 17:17:23 2009
From: noc at iem.at (IEM - network operating center (IOhannes m zmoelnig))
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:17:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to change the List-ID (RFC2919)
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090302073146056297ba7fe0@msapiro>
References: <PC187020090302073146056297ba7fe0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49AC0693.60300@iem.at>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> The only solution that doesn't involve hacking code is to not change
> the host_name of the list, but since the host_name is the domain that
> is exposed in all list email addresses, that is clearly not a
> practical solution.

are there any plans to allow an administrator to set the List-ID in 
future versions of Mailman?

i would love to see that.
(that is, it would be sufficient for me to be able to set the listid 
(address) part of it)

> 
> Otherwise, you'd need to modify Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py in some
> way.
> 

this is a somewhat unpractical, esp. since (i guess) many people install 
mailman via a package-manager and want to stay up-to-date with respect 
to bug-fixes,...; hacking the (pre-packaged) code is always a nightmare 
in such situations....
however, iirc there was a custom hook support....(?)

mfga,.sdr
IOhannes



-- 
IEM - network operation center
mailto:noc at iem.at

From barry at list.org  Mon Mar  2 17:19:56 2009
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:19:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to change the List-ID (RFC2919)
In-Reply-To: <49AC0693.60300@iem.at>
References: <PC187020090302073146056297ba7fe0@msapiro> <49AC0693.60300@iem.at>
Message-ID: <73A6C04A-D12C-42E3-A8DD-A22D2A93C4AB@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mar 2, 2009, at 11:17 AM, IEM - network operating center (IOhannes  
m zmoelnig) wrote:

> are there any plans to allow an administrator to set the List-ID in  
> future versions of Mailman?

It's not out of the realm of possibility for MM3.  It seems to me on  
the order of browser ID hacking.

Barry

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From rpyne at kinfolk.org  Mon Mar  2 17:58:47 2009
From: rpyne at kinfolk.org (rpyne at kinfolk.org)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 09:58:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception: unknown encoding:
	us-ascii
Message-ID: <49ABADD7.6016.47A13EF@rpyne.kinfolk.org>

Please help! Since upgrading to Mailman 2.1.12 and Python 2.6.1, my 
error log is filling up with messages like this and virtually no 
messages are moving through my mailing lists. Based on a search of 
the archives, I removed ALL digest.mbox files and ran unshunt. No 
messages moved and the errors continue.

Mar 02 09:51:11 2009 (30278) SHUNTING: 
1236010837.317246+dbe24d8d98f7ad6b16fdd98b1f18ae69b6a225e7
Mar 02 09:51:11 2009 (30278) Uncaught runner exception: unknown 
encoding: us-ascii
Mar 02 09:51:11 2009 (30278) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in 
_dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in 
_dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 111, in 
process
    g.flatten(p)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 84, in flatten
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 116, in _write
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 84, in 
_write_headers
    Generator._write_headers(self, msg)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 150, in 
_write_headers
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 26, in 
_is8bitstring
LookupError: unknown encoding: us-ascii


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  2 18:10:33 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:10:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception: unknown
	encoding:us-ascii
In-Reply-To: <49ABADD7.6016.47A13EF@rpyne.kinfolk.org>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903020910330500023aefd5@msapiro>

rpyne at kinfolk.org wrote:

>Please help! Since upgrading to Mailman 2.1.12 and Python 2.6.1, my 
>error log is filling up with messages like this and virtually no 
>messages are moving through my mailing lists. Based on a search of 
>the archives, I removed ALL digest.mbox files and ran unshunt. No 
>messages moved and the errors continue.
>
>Mar 02 09:51:11 2009 (30278) SHUNTING: 
>1236010837.317246+dbe24d8d98f7ad6b16fdd98b1f18ae69b6a225e7
>Mar 02 09:51:11 2009 (30278) Uncaught runner exception: unknown 
>encoding: us-ascii
>Mar 02 09:51:11 2009 (30278) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in 
>_dispose
>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in 
>_dopipeline
>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 111, in 
>process
>    g.flatten(p)
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 84, in flatten
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 116, in _write
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 84, in 
>_write_headers
>    Generator._write_headers(self, msg)
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 150, in 
>_write_headers
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 26, in 
>_is8bitstring
>LookupError: unknown encoding: us-ascii


You say you have Python 2.6.1, but your Python email library seems to
be python2.5.

Did you upgrade Python after installing Mailman?

It appears your installation may not be completely consistent. What
Python version is invoked by a "python" command.

You may need to rerun Mailman's configure and make install.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ed at corcorans.org  Sun Mar  1 23:52:46 2009
From: ed at corcorans.org (Ed Corcoran)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 15:52:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying Entire Membership List
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090301072228057864568f1e@msapiro>
References: <PC187020090301072228057864568f1e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49AB11BE.7030908@corcorans.org>

Hi Mark,

> What Mailman version is this...

Not sure as it is supplied by my host at hostgo.com

> You aren't by chance seeing only the 152 "A"s (or whatever's first) ...

AHH! That was exactly the problem. So there really was no problem, just cockpit error.

Thanks a bunch.

Ed Corcoran

From pmoss4 at csc.com  Mon Mar  2 17:11:01 2009
From: pmoss4 at csc.com (Patricia A Moss)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:11:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not sending email or posting to archive.
In-Reply-To: <OFFB3F7812.DA9880CA-ON8525754E.0050642A-8525754E.00513186@LocalDomain>
Message-ID: <OF6DAB7CF4.6F71BA36-ON8525756D.0058720F-8525756D.0058EACA@csc.com>

Mailman is currently not sending email and not posting to the archives. We 
moved the server, that hosts the mailman application, to a new network. 
This required that our email relay server also be changed. I am wondering 
if there is something in the mailman config that needs to be updated. 
I sent a test email directly from the server and that was successful, but 
if I try to post to the list I get nothing.  Thanks.


PATI MOSS
System Engineer Sr. Professional
CSC

This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in 
delivery. 
NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to 
any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement 
or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such 
purpose.



Patricia A Moss/GIS/CSC 
01/30/2009 09:46 AM

To
mailman-users at python.org
cc

Subject
Domainname changing





I am running mailman 2.1.5 on a RedHat Linux, version 4.0, server.
The IP Address and domainname, of the server, are going to change and I 
wanted to know is there was a script or set of instructions for making 
similar changes within mailman.  I see that the archives will be affected 
by the domainname.  I am not sure as to what else may be affected and how 
to avoid a problem.

I found this article "3.4. How do I move a list to a different 
server/Mailman installation." in the FAQ.  It seems like it pertains to my 
situation, but I wanted to make sure that I didn't miss anything else. 
Thanks.


PATI MOSS
System Engineer Sr. Professional
CSC



This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in 
delivery. 
NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to 
any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement 
or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such 
purpose.

From mwelch at redwoodalliance.org  Mon Mar  2 18:20:01 2009
From: mwelch at redwoodalliance.org (Michael Welch)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 09:20:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password sends
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009022817494305316b96787e@msapiro>
References: <20090228182036.67E2E5F5B1@friskymail-a1.g.dreamhost.com>
	<PC18702009022817494305316b96787e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20090302172141.30CEA5F561@friskymail-a1.g.dreamhost.com>



Mark Sapiro wrote at 05:49 PM 2/28/2009:
 
>>What is supposed to happen when a non-listmember tries to get a password reminder from the member options page?
>>
>>I tried it myself after trying to figure out if a member was using the wrong email address, and the web page said, "A reminder of your password has been emailed to you."
>
>The issue is your list's membership is not public, so we can't reveal
>that the person requesting the reminder is not a member or this could
>be used to fish for list membership. Granted the message should be
>better (i.e. more ambiguous about whether the reminder is actually
>sent), but the bottom line is if the address is a non-member, no
>reminder is sent.

Thanks, Mark. I hope the message can change in some future version.

>>I also discovered that one of my four lists doesn't even send out the passwords to subscribed members after saying the reminders were sent. I tried this on my own subscribed name and it failed. If folks can tell me what might be wrong here as well, I will pass it on to DreamHost tech support which has been quite responsive in the past.
>
>
>Reminders are supposed to work for subscribed members. I don't know why
>they wouldn't. As a debug technique, you could temporarily set

I hit up DreamHost support on this, and they said they changed a setting, and that if it still did not work I would need to give them temporary Admin access to the list so they could check on things. I tried a reminder, and they still were not working.

I went to the Admin pages and reviewed carefully all the settings (again), and discovered that umbrella_list was set to Yes. I set it to No, and the reminders began working. I suppose that setting could have been at Yes all along, but I didn't think so.


- - - - - - - - - - - -
Michael Welch, volunteer
Redwood Alliance
PO Box 293
Arcata, CA 95518
707-822-7884
mwelch at redwoodalliance.org
www.redwoodalliance.org


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Mar  2 18:28:12 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 02:28:12 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to change the List-ID (RFC2919)
In-Reply-To: <73A6C04A-D12C-42E3-A8DD-A22D2A93C4AB@list.org>
References: <PC187020090302073146056297ba7fe0@msapiro> <49AC0693.60300@iem.at>
	<73A6C04A-D12C-42E3-A8DD-A22D2A93C4AB@list.org>
Message-ID: <87vdqral77.fsf@xemacs.org>

Barry Warsaw writes:
 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
 > Hash: SHA1
 > 
 > On Mar 2, 2009, at 11:17 AM, IEM - network operating center (IOhannes  
 > m zmoelnig) wrote:
 > 
 > > are there any plans to allow an administrator to set the List-ID in  
 > > future versions of Mailman?
 > 
 > It's not out of the realm of possibility for MM3.  It seems to me on  
 > the order of browser ID hacking.

?  Isn't it as simple as adding a rfc2919-list-id attribute to the
list object, and defaulting it to what we compute for it today?

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  2 18:34:10 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:34:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password sends
In-Reply-To: <20090302172141.30CEA5F561@friskymail-a1.g.dreamhost.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009030209341004532a7c044f@msapiro>

Michael Welch wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro wrote at 05:49 PM 2/28/2009:
> 
>>The issue is your list's membership is not public, so we can't reveal
>>that the person requesting the reminder is not a member or this could
>>be used to fish for list membership. Granted the message should be
>>better (i.e. more ambiguous about whether the reminder is actually
>>sent), but the bottom line is if the address is a non-member, no
>>reminder is sent.
>
>Thanks, Mark. I hope the message can change in some future version.


It will change in 2.2

>I went to the Admin pages and reviewed carefully all the settings (again), and discovered that umbrella_list was set to Yes. I set it to No, and the reminders began working. I suppose that setting could have been at Yes all along, but I didn't think so.


It probably was on all along or at least since you noticesd you weren't
getting reminders. I forgot about that as a potential issue with
reminders. It causes the reminder for user at example.com to be sent to
user-xxx at example.com (where -xxx is -owner or whatever
umbrella_member_suffix is set to). How that gets delivered or whether
it gets delivered at all depends on the specific MTA/MDA configuration
for user at example.com.
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at list.org  Mon Mar  2 18:35:38 2009
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:35:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to change the List-ID (RFC2919)
In-Reply-To: <87vdqral77.fsf@xemacs.org>
References: <PC187020090302073146056297ba7fe0@msapiro> <49AC0693.60300@iem.at>
	<73A6C04A-D12C-42E3-A8DD-A22D2A93C4AB@list.org>
	<87vdqral77.fsf@xemacs.org>
Message-ID: <D7FDD78D-9272-4A94-82C8-68E30293F8D6@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mar 2, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>> It's not out of the realm of possibility for MM3.  It seems to me on
>> the order of browser ID hacking.
>
> ?  Isn't it as simple as adding a rfc2919-list-id attribute to the
> list object, and defaulting it to what we compute for it today?

Yep, and exposing it in the u/i.

What I meant was, it kind of feels like masquerading.

Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin)

iEYEARECAAYFAkmsGOoACgkQ2YZpQepbvXHZnACfcsCBR7lJ8XALVaz02vUN9lTL
33sAoISpjSiD7Sz9Zvl0ni+km5H5k4DE
=a+ps
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  2 18:39:41 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:39:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not sending email or posting to archive.
In-Reply-To: <OF6DAB7CF4.6F71BA36-ON8525756D.0058720F-8525756D.0058EACA@csc.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903020939410781ef22b1b6@msapiro>

Patricia A Moss wrote:

>Mailman is currently not sending email and not posting to the archives. We 
>moved the server, that hosts the mailman application, to a new network. 
>This required that our email relay server also be changed. I am wondering 
>if there is something in the mailman config that needs to be updated. 


I can't say without knowing more specifics about exactly how mail used
to be delivered to Mailman and how it is now (or at least is supposed
to be, since it seems like posts aren't getting to Mailman at all.


>I sent a test email directly from the server and that was successful, 


You mean you sent an outgoing mail from the server or you sent a post
to a list from the server?


>but 
>if I try to post to the list I get nothing.  Thanks.


What happens to that mail? What do the logs for each MTA it passes
through say about it?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rpyne at kinfolk.org  Mon Mar  2 18:52:53 2009
From: rpyne at kinfolk.org (rpyne at kinfolk.org)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 10:52:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception: unknown
	encoding:us-ascii
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903020910330500023aefd5@msapiro>
References: <49ABADD7.6016.47A13EF@rpyne.kinfolk.org>,
	<PC1870200903020910330500023aefd5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49ABBA85.16368.4AB9A57@rpyne.kinfolk.org>



On 2 Mar 2009 at 9:10, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> rpyne at kinfolk.org wrote:
> 
> >Please help! Since upgrading to Mailman 2.1.12 and Python 2.6.1, my
> >error log is filling up with messages like this and virtually no
> >messages are moving through my mailing lists. Based on a search of
> >the archives, I removed ALL digest.mbox files and ran unshunt. No
> >messages moved and the errors continue.
> >
> >Mar 02 09:51:11 2009 (30278) SHUNTING: 
> >1236010837.317246+dbe24d8d98f7ad6b16fdd98b1f18ae69b6a225e7
> >Mar 02 09:51:11 2009 (30278) Uncaught runner exception: unknown
> >encoding: us-ascii Mar 02 09:51:11 2009 (30278) Traceback (most
> >recent call last):
> >  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop
> >    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
> >  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
> >    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in 
> >_dispose
> >    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
> >  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in 
> >_dopipeline
> >    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 111, in 
> >process
> >    g.flatten(p)
> >  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 84, in flatten
> >  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 116, in _write
> >  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 84, in 
> >_write_headers
> >    Generator._write_headers(self, msg)
> >  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 150, in 
> >_write_headers
> >  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 26, in 
> >_is8bitstring
> >LookupError: unknown encoding: us-ascii
> 
> 
> You say you have Python 2.6.1, but your Python email library seems to
> be python2.5.
> 
> Did you upgrade Python after installing Mailman?
> 
> It appears your installation may not be completely consistent. What
> Python version is invoked by a "python" command.
> 
> You may need to rerun Mailman's configure and make install.

 # python
Python 2.6.1 (r261:67515, Feb 28 2009, 15:18:21)
[GCC 4.2.4] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more 
information.


I re-ran the configure and install of mailman, ran unshunt and the 
errors still show using python 2.5:

Mar 02 10:39:45 2009 (30280) SHUNTING: 
1236015583.0520451+8058beae403d3fbac5f2571929549c19e2125acd
Mar 02 10:39:53 2009 (30278) Uncaught runner exception: unknown 
encoding: us-ascii
Mar 02 10:39:53 2009 (30278) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in 
_dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in 
_dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 111, in 
process
    g.flatten(p)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 84, in flatten
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 109, in _write
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 135, in 
_dispatch
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 201, in 
_handle_multipart
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 84, in flatten
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 116, in _write
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 84, in 
_write_headers
    Generator._write_headers(self, msg)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 150, in 
_write_headers
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 26, in 
_is8bitstring
LookupError: unknown encoding: us-ascii

Mar 02 10:39:54 2009 (30278) SHUNTING: 
1236014500.0552149+8a7b01ddc869ad3d723ffcadca4644d72858e68b
Mar 02 10:39:54 2009 (30278) Failed to unlink/preserve backup file: 
/var/mailman/qfiles/in/1236014500.0552149+5aed32c1bfbe6e4ac85c02c35185
46e179e37b02.bak



From Tlf1 at ccs135.com  Mon Mar  2 19:21:17 2009
From: Tlf1 at ccs135.com (Tim Ferguson)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:21:17 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No incoming mail
Message-ID: <49ABCF3D020000BD00014A05@mail.ccs135.com>


I have a system that I just set up and mail, such as subscribe notifications and list  creations are going out but mail isn't making it in.  I get a "server is down" error reply.  Although postfix is up, where might the "catch" be? 

Thanks for any ideas or suggestions, 

Tim 

Tim Ferguson
Director of Technology
Centralia City Schools
Centralia, Illinois 62801
618-532-1907, Ext. 1030





From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  2 19:24:23 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 10:24:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception:
	unknownencoding:us-ascii
In-Reply-To: <49ABBA85.16368.4AB9A57@rpyne.kinfolk.org>
Message-ID: <PC187020090302102423085911a8a932@msapiro>

rpyne at kinfolk.org wrote:
>
> # python
>Python 2.6.1 (r261:67515, Feb 28 2009, 15:18:21)
>[GCC 4.2.4] on linux2
>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more 
>information.
>
>
>I re-ran the configure and install of mailman, ran unshunt and the 
>errors still show using python 2.5:


What does config.log show for your configure command line and for
things like the following:

configure:1714: checking for --with-python
configure:1726: result: no
configure:1733: checking for python
configure:1751: found /usr/bin/python
configure:1764: result: /usr/bin/python
configure:1774: checking Python interpreter
configure:1792: result: /usr/bin/python
configure:1796: checking Python version
configure:1829: result: 2.6.1
configure:1833: checking Python's email package
configure:1866: result: ok

(the first several lines after

## ----------- ##
## Core tests. ##
## ----------- ##


>Mar 02 10:39:45 2009 (30280) SHUNTING: 
>1236015583.0520451+8058beae403d3fbac5f2571929549c19e2125acd
>Mar 02 10:39:53 2009 (30278) Uncaught runner exception: unknown 
>encoding: us-ascii
>Mar 02 10:39:53 2009 (30278) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in 
>_dispose
>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in 
>_dopipeline
>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 111, in 
>process
>    g.flatten(p)
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 84, in flatten
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 109, in _write
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 135, in 
>_dispatch
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 201, in 
>_handle_multipart
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 84, in flatten
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 116, in _write
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 84, in 
>_write_headers
>    Generator._write_headers(self, msg)
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 150, in 
>_write_headers
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 26, in 
>_is8bitstring
>LookupError: unknown encoding: us-ascii
>
>Mar 02 10:39:54 2009 (30278) SHUNTING: 
>1236014500.0552149+8a7b01ddc869ad3d723ffcadca4644d72858e68b


Are you also getting many errors like the following?

>Mar 02 10:39:54 2009 (30278) Failed to unlink/preserve backup file: 
>/var/mailman/qfiles/in/1236014500.0552149+5aed32c1bfbe6e4ac85c02c35185
>46e179e37b02.bak

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  2 19:28:33 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 10:28:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No incoming mail
In-Reply-To: <49ABCF3D020000BD00014A05@mail.ccs135.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020090302102833071811a8a8af@msapiro>

Tim Ferguson wrote:
>
>I have a system that I just set up and mail, such as subscribe notifications and list  creations are going out but mail isn't making it in.  I get a "server is down" error reply.  Although postfix is up, where might the "catch" be? 


Where do you see this? Is this in a DSN (bounce notice) returned to you?

The catch appears to be somewhere in delivery of mail to Mailman before
it actually gets to Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  2 19:38:23 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 10:38:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to change the List-ID (RFC2919)
In-Reply-To: <49AC0693.60300@iem.at>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903021038230375ece5bb0e@msapiro>

IEM - network operating center (IOhannes m zmoelnig) wrote:
>
>this is a somewhat unpractical, esp. since (i guess) many people install 
>mailman via a package-manager and want to stay up-to-date with respect 
>to bug-fixes,...; hacking the (pre-packaged) code is always a nightmare 
>in such situations....
>however, iirc there was a custom hook support....(?)


Yes, you could make a custom handler <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9> and
add it to the pipeline after CookHeaders to change the List-ID: header.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rpyne at kinfolk.org  Mon Mar  2 20:27:59 2009
From: rpyne at kinfolk.org (rpyne at kinfolk.org)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:27:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception:
	unknownencoding:us-ascii
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090302102423085911a8a932@msapiro>
References: <49ABBA85.16368.4AB9A57@rpyne.kinfolk.org>,
	<PC187020090302102423085911a8a932@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49ABD0CF.7060.502AC13@rpyne.kinfolk.org>



On 2 Mar 2009 at 10:24, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> rpyne at kinfolk.org wrote:
> >
> > # python
> >Python 2.6.1 (r261:67515, Feb 28 2009, 15:18:21)
> >[GCC 4.2.4] on linux2
> >Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more 
> >information.
> >
> >
> >I re-ran the configure and install of mailman, ran unshunt and the
> >errors still show using python 2.5:
> 
> 
> What does config.log show for your configure command line and for
> things like the following:
> 
> configure:1714: checking for --with-python
> configure:1726: result: no
> configure:1733: checking for python
> configure:1751: found /usr/bin/python
> configure:1764: result: /usr/bin/python
> configure:1774: checking Python interpreter
> configure:1792: result: /usr/bin/python
> configure:1796: checking Python version
> configure:1829: result: 2.6.1
> configure:1833: checking Python's email package
> configure:1866: result: ok
> 
> (the first several lines after
> 
> ## ----------- ##
> ## Core tests. ##
> ## ----------- ##


configure:1714: checking for --with-python
configure:1726: result: /usr/bin/python
configure:1774: checking Python interpreter
configure:1792: result: /usr/bin/python
configure:1796: checking Python version
configure:1829: result: 2.6.1
configure:1833: checking Python's email package
configure:1866: result: ok
configure:1872: checking that Python has a working distutils
configure:1921: result: yes
configure:1969: checking for a BSD-compatible install
configure:2025: result: /usr/bin/install -c
configure:2036: checking whether make sets $(MAKE)

> 
> 
> >Mar 02 10:39:45 2009 (30280) SHUNTING: 
> >1236015583.0520451+8058beae403d3fbac5f2571929549c19e2125acd
> >Mar 02 10:39:53 2009 (30278) Uncaught runner exception: unknown
> >encoding: us-ascii Mar 02 10:39:53 2009 (30278) Traceback (most
> >recent call last):
> >  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop
> >    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
> >  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
> >    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in 
> >_dispose
> >    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
> >  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in 
> >_dopipeline
> >    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 111, in 
> >process
> >    g.flatten(p)
> >  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 84, in flatten
> >  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 109, in _write
> >  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 135, in 
> >_dispatch
> >  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 201, in 
> >_handle_multipart
> >  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 84, in flatten
> >  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 116, in _write
> >  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 84, in 
> >_write_headers
> >    Generator._write_headers(self, msg)
> >  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 150, in 
> >_write_headers
> >  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/generator.py", line 26, in 
> >_is8bitstring
> >LookupError: unknown encoding: us-ascii
> >
> >Mar 02 10:39:54 2009 (30278) SHUNTING: 
> >1236014500.0552149+8a7b01ddc869ad3d723ffcadca4644d72858e68b
> 
> 
> Are you also getting many errors like the following?
> 
> >Mar 02 10:39:54 2009 (30278) Failed to unlink/preserve backup file:
> >/var/mailman/qfiles/in/1236014500.0552149+5aed32c1bfbe6e4ac85c02c3518
> >5 46e179e37b02.bak

Yes:

Mar 02 11:23:49 2009 (13849) Skipping and preserving unparseable 
message: 1236014500.0552149+80fb5a8a97a8d0c248a1d845d2d05094c2a5fa49
Mar 02 11:23:49 2009 (13849) Failed to unlink/preserve backup file: 
/var/mailman/qfiles/out/1236014500.0552149+80fb5a8a97a8d0c248a1d845d2d
05094c2a5fa49.bak

Since the only thing on the server that is (intentionally) using 
Python, I deleted the /lib/python2.5 and /usr/lib/python2.5 
directories and have reinstalled Python, reinstalled Mailman and 
rebooted the server.

It appears to have cleared things up as I ran unshunt and now all of 
the qfiles except bad are empty and several previously shunted emails 
are delivering.

Thanks.




From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  2 20:55:57 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:55:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception:
	unknownencoding:us-ascii
In-Reply-To: <49ABD0CF.7060.502AC13@rpyne.kinfolk.org>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903021155570546fd5e141b@msapiro>

rpyne at kinfolk.org wrote:
>
>On 2 Mar 2009 at 10:24, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> 
>> Are you also getting many errors like the following?
>> 
>> >Mar 02 10:39:54 2009 (30278) Failed to unlink/preserve backup file:
>> >/var/mailman/qfiles/in/1236014500.0552149+5aed32c1bfbe6e4ac85c02c3518
>> >5 46e179e37b02.bak
>
>Yes:
>
>Mar 02 11:23:49 2009 (13849) Skipping and preserving unparseable 
>message: 1236014500.0552149+80fb5a8a97a8d0c248a1d845d2d05094c2a5fa49
>Mar 02 11:23:49 2009 (13849) Failed to unlink/preserve backup file: 
>/var/mailman/qfiles/out/1236014500.0552149+80fb5a8a97a8d0c248a1d845d2d
>05094c2a5fa49.bak


Unfortunately, I neglected to put the actual error in the above log
message - one more thing for 2.2 :)

This seems to say there is an error in trying to move the .bak backup
queue entry for the unparseable message to a .psv entry in the
qfiles/bad queue. I don't know why.


>Since the only thing on the server that is (intentionally) using 
>Python, I deleted the /lib/python2.5 and /usr/lib/python2.5 
>directories and have reinstalled Python, reinstalled Mailman and 
>rebooted the server.
>
>It appears to have cleared things up as I ran unshunt and now all of 
>the qfiles except bad are empty and several previously shunted emails 
>are delivering.


Well, perhaps we'll never understand fully what the issues were, but
I'm glad it's OK now.

Those .psv files in qfiles/bad are the unparseable messages. Almost
certainly, they are spam in a malformed MIME message. if you're
curious, you can examine them with 'bin/dumpdb -p'.

With default settings, they will be discarded by cron/cull_bad_shunt
after 7 days.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From savoy at uleth.ca  Mon Mar  2 23:15:30 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 15:15:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Tricky admin_immed_notify problem
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200902261602190640381d97d3@msapiro>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42A97@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<PC1870200902261602190640381d97d3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42C37@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>

>> Jim Savoy wrote:

>> Reading this reminded me that I have a similar problem. All of our
lists
>> are set by default to be admin_immed_notify=yes, but the list owners
only
>> get a message when something new arrives (that is put on hold). They
>> never get a daily reminder about the queued-up stuff. Is this a known
problem
>> for v2.1.5 (we will be upgrading to v2.1.12 this summer). I have no
idea how
>> long this has been going on, and only remembered it because I own one
of the
>> lists and realized that I only get the one warning.

>Mark Shapiro wrote:

>The daily summary is sent by cron/checkdbs.

>Does mailman have a crontab? Does it have an entry to run cron/checkdbs
daily? Is crond running?


Hi Mark,

   The answers to your questions are: yes, yes & yes. But I don't think
the person
who installed Mailman many years ago ever did the "crontab -u mailman
crontab.in"
bit, so I just did it now. First I commented out everything in that
crontab.in file
except the checkdbs line, and set that to run immediately. It worked
like a charm
and sent out hundreds of reminders to all list owners.

  I am not all that familiar with cron. Is that "crontab -u mailman
crontab.in"
something you need to run every time you reboot the system? Or does it
add something
to /etc/cron.d or /etc/cron.daily or /etc/crontab? (I don't see anything
new in those).

  But I noticed that many of the reminders it sent out, pointing people
to the
admindb page were blank (ie there is nothing pending). So I'm not sure
what that
means. There aren't that many .pck files in /mailman/data and I am not
sure where
else it is pulling that false information from. The next run is set for
8:00 am
tomorrow, but I might have to put it on hold until I find out why there
are so many
bogus warnings going out. If someone was to clear out a bunch of pending
requests
from the mailman/data directory just by deleting them, instead of doing
it properly
with the admindb web interface, would that cause this problem? If so,
can I remedy
this somehow? Any pointers would be helpful. I don't fully understand
all of the
workings of Mailman (like many of the others on this list - I just sort
of babysit it
and we've never had too many problems). Thanks!



From savoy at uleth.ca  Mon Mar  2 23:27:57 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 15:27:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Tricky admin_immed_notify problem
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42C37@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42A97@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca><PC1870200902261602190640381d97d3@msapiro>
	<366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42C37@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42C3E@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>


Jim Savoy wrote:

>  I am not all that familiar with cron. Is that "crontab -u mailman
>crontab.in" something you need to run every time you reboot the system?
>Or does it add something to /etc/cron.d or /etc/cron.daily or
/etc/crontab?
>(I don't see anything new in those).

Jim Savoy answers himself:

Before I get blasted with RTFMs, I did just read the manpage for
crontab,
and it says that each user may maintain their own separate crontabs, so
I have now deduced that the command I ran activated that. I am still not
sure
if I am supposed to run that every time we reboot or if it's permanent
(and
if I change crontab.in (to comment out tomorrow's 8:00 am run, for
instance)
do I have to execute that command again?). Thanks.



From savoy at uleth.ca  Tue Mar  3 00:12:09 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:12:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Tricky admin_immed_notify problem
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42C3E@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42A97@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca><PC1870200902261602190640381d97d3@msapiro><366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42C37@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42C3E@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42C4C@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>

I think I have my phantom requests (eg the "-1 request(s) pending")
question
answered. Googling it I see that Mark provided a fix, but also said that
by
going to that admin page once should clear it. That may save me from
manually
having to fix hundreds of lists. 


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar  3 01:38:28 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:38:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Tricky admin_immed_notify problem
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42C37@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903021638280875f3789907@msapiro>

Savoy, Jim wrote:
>
>   The answers to your questions are: yes, yes & yes. But I don't think
>the person
>who installed Mailman many years ago ever did the "crontab -u mailman
>crontab.in"
>bit, so I just did it now. First I commented out everything in that
>crontab.in file
>except the checkdbs line, and set that to run immediately. It worked
>like a charm
>and sent out hundreds of reminders to all list owners.
>
>  I am not all that familiar with cron. Is that "crontab -u mailman
>crontab.in"
>something you need to run every time you reboot the system? Or does it
>add something
>to /etc/cron.d or /etc/cron.daily or /etc/crontab? (I don't see anything
>new in those).


As you discovered it puts the commands from crontab.in into the mailman
user's crontab which is likely /var/spool/cron/mailman. It stays there
across boots.

This is the correct place for the mailman crontab. The ones in cron.d
are a slightly different format.

But note, that almost all the jobs in crontab.in should be run. They
all have a function and the only one you can safely ignore is
gate_news if you aren't running any lists with a news->mail gateway.

For the others, you need to at least read the comments in crontab.in
and understand what the job does before deciding not to run it.


>  But I noticed that many of the reminders it sent out, pointing people
>to the
>admindb page were blank (ie there is nothing pending).


Presumably these are the "-1 requests" ones you refer to later.

This issue only existed with lists that were migrated from pre 2.1.5 to
2.1.5 and only exists in 2.1.5.

Yes, visiting the list's admindb page should fix it, but that needs to
be done for each list with the problem.

I have just created a withlist script you can run to fix all the
problem lists. See <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/fix_minus_one.py>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Mar  3 03:23:42 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 11:23:42 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to change the List-ID (RFC2919)
In-Reply-To: <D7FDD78D-9272-4A94-82C8-68E30293F8D6@list.org>
References: <PC187020090302073146056297ba7fe0@msapiro> <49AC0693.60300@iem.at>
	<73A6C04A-D12C-42E3-A8DD-A22D2A93C4AB@list.org>
	<87vdqral77.fsf@xemacs.org>
	<D7FDD78D-9272-4A94-82C8-68E30293F8D6@list.org>
Message-ID: <87sklv9wep.fsf@xemacs.org>

Barry Warsaw writes:
 > On Mar 2, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

 > >> It's not out of the realm of possibility for MM3.  It seems to me on
 > >> the order of browser ID hacking.
 > >
 > > ?  Isn't it as simple as adding a rfc2919-list-id attribute to the
 > > list object, and defaulting it to what we compute for it today?
 > 
 > Yep, and exposing it in the u/i.
 > 
 > What I meant was, it kind of feels like masquerading.

I disagree.  The identity of a list is what it is, and shouldn't
change because the server changes.  The issue here arises because in
Mailman 2.1, lists have no sense of their own identity<wink>, and rely
on their association with a server to derive an identity.  So by
providing this feature we're not hiding ID to placate the outside
world, we're *exposing* ID to improve reliability.

While Mark is correct that the RFC says "SHOULD", and so it's optional
if tools like Mailman find the implementation painful, I would say
this is a MUST for MM3, and deserves consideration as a SHOULD for
MM2.2.

It's not obvious that it even needs be exposed in the UI for MM2.
Moving servers is something that requires intervention by somebody
with root access, so command-line configuration is sufficient for MM2,
I think.

AFAIK there are no tools out there that depend on continuity of
List-Id (except user filters, and even those may continue to work by
and large if they match on the mailbox rather than the full ID), so I
wouldn't call it "urgent", even for MM3.


From barry at list.org  Tue Mar  3 05:40:03 2009
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 23:40:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to change the List-ID (RFC2919)
In-Reply-To: <87sklv9wep.fsf@xemacs.org>
References: <PC187020090302073146056297ba7fe0@msapiro> <49AC0693.60300@iem.at>
	<73A6C04A-D12C-42E3-A8DD-A22D2A93C4AB@list.org>
	<87vdqral77.fsf@xemacs.org>
	<D7FDD78D-9272-4A94-82C8-68E30293F8D6@list.org>
	<87sklv9wep.fsf@xemacs.org>
Message-ID: <782FB77D-D84D-47D8-8480-CDC1EDBC07C9@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mar 2, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> I disagree.  The identity of a list is what it is, and shouldn't
> change because the server changes.  The issue here arises because in
> Mailman 2.1, lists have no sense of their own identity<wink>, and rely
> on their association with a server to derive an identity.  So by
> providing this feature we're not hiding ID to placate the outside
> world, we're *exposing* ID to improve reliability.
>
> While Mark is correct that the RFC says "SHOULD", and so it's optional
> if tools like Mailman find the implementation painful, I would say
> this is a MUST for MM3, and deserves consideration as a SHOULD for
> MM2.2.
>
> It's not obvious that it even needs be exposed in the UI for MM2.
> Moving servers is something that requires intervention by somebody
> with root access, so command-line configuration is sufficient for MM2,
> I think.
>
> AFAIK there are no tools out there that depend on continuity of
> List-Id (except user filters, and even those may continue to work by
> and large if they match on the mailbox rather than the full ID), so I
> wouldn't call it "urgent", even for MM3.

What I'm saying is that the RFC states "While it is perfectly  
acceptable for a list identifier to be completely independent of the  
domain name of the host machine servicing the mailing list, the owner  
of a mailing list MUST NOT generate list identifiers in any domain  
namespace for which they do not have authority."

So, if you're moving a list from one domain to another, and you want  
to keep your old List-ID, you must still control the old domain.  If  
not, then ISTM you MUST change the List-ID.  In certain environments,  
I think you can trust the list admins to get this right, but in others  
you might trust only the site administrators.  So how much control do  
you give to list admins?

The core question is whether /someone/ should be able to (easily) set  
the List-ID, and I think we agree the answer to that is "yes".  You  
state that command-line configuration would be fine for MM2, and I  
agree with that too. :)  I still think the posting address makes for a  
fine default value (well, s/@/./ of course).

Barry

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a3gAn2DxEwPge+X6+r/ZI200f/y6GUoq
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From noc at iem.at  Tue Mar  3 10:43:36 2009
From: noc at iem.at (IEM - network operating center (IOhannes m zmoelnig))
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:43:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to change the List-ID (RFC2919)
In-Reply-To: <782FB77D-D84D-47D8-8480-CDC1EDBC07C9@list.org>
References: <PC187020090302073146056297ba7fe0@msapiro> <49AC0693.60300@iem.at>
	<73A6C04A-D12C-42E3-A8DD-A22D2A93C4AB@list.org>
	<87vdqral77.fsf@xemacs.org>
	<D7FDD78D-9272-4A94-82C8-68E30293F8D6@list.org>
	<87sklv9wep.fsf@xemacs.org>
	<782FB77D-D84D-47D8-8480-CDC1EDBC07C9@list.org>
Message-ID: <49ACFBC8.7030800@iem.at>

Barry Warsaw wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

> 
> The core question is whether /someone/ should be able to (easily) set 
> the List-ID, and I think we agree the answer to that is "yes".  You 
> state that command-line configuration would be fine for MM2, and I agree 
> with that too. :)  I still think the posting address makes for a fine 
> default value (well, s/@/./ of course).

i agree wholeheartily with all of the above.
and i do want this feature :-)


fgamsdr
IOhannes


-- 
IEM - network operation center
mailto:noc at iem.at

From glueck at igroup.de  Tue Mar  3 11:10:36 2009
From: glueck at igroup.de (Oliver Glueck)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 11:10:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Forbidden
Message-ID: <49AD021C.6040706@igroup.de>

Hi,

if I click on the archive of a list, I get this error:

Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /pipermail/about-ox/ on this server.

But bin/check_perms says, that everything is ok.
It is an apache problem?


/usr/local/mailman# ls -al archives/private/
insgesamt 56
drwxrws--- 14 root     mailman 4096 2009-03-03 10:30 .
drwxrwsr-x  4 root     mailman 4096 2009-02-27 17:54 ..
drwxrwsr-x  5 www-data mailman 4096 2009-03-02 03:27 about-ox
drwxrwsr-x  2 www-data mailman 4096 2009-03-01 15:21 about-ox.mbox  

Apache2, mailman.conf:
ScriptAlias /mailman/       /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
Alias   /pipermail/     /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
<Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/">
        AddDefaultCharset Off
</Directory>

Thanks,
Oliver

From glueck at igroup.de  Tue Mar  3 11:14:21 2009
From: glueck at igroup.de (Oliver Glueck)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 11:14:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [bulk]:  Forbidden
In-Reply-To: <49AD021C.6040706@igroup.de>
References: <49AD021C.6040706@igroup.de>
Message-ID: <49AD02FD.6060200@igroup.de>

/usr/local/mailman/archives/public# ls -al
insgesamt 8
drwxrwsr-x 2 root     mailman 4096 2009-03-03 10:30 .
drwxrwsr-x 4 root     mailman 4096 2009-02-27 17:54 ..
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root     mailman   44 2009-03-01 14:26 about-ox -> 
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/about-ox

Oliver Glueck schrieb:
> Hi,
>
> if I click on the archive of a list, I get this error:
>
> Forbidden
>
> You don't have permission to access /pipermail/about-ox/ on this server.
>
> But bin/check_perms says, that everything is ok.
> It is an apache problem?
>
>
> /usr/local/mailman# ls -al archives/private/
> insgesamt 56
> drwxrws--- 14 root     mailman 4096 2009-03-03 10:30 .
> drwxrwsr-x  4 root     mailman 4096 2009-02-27 17:54 ..
> drwxrwsr-x  5 www-data mailman 4096 2009-03-02 03:27 about-ox
> drwxrwsr-x  2 www-data mailman 4096 2009-03-01 15:21 about-ox.mbox 
> Apache2, mailman.conf:
> ScriptAlias /mailman/       /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
> Alias   /pipermail/     /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
> <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/">
>        AddDefaultCharset Off
> </Directory>
>
> Thanks,
> Oliver
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/glueck%40igroup.de
>
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9

From arimo at iki.fi  Tue Mar  3 11:38:42 2009
From: arimo at iki.fi (Ari Moisio)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 12:38:42 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Forbidden
In-Reply-To: <49AD021C.6040706@igroup.de>
References: <49AD021C.6040706@igroup.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0903031237410.10818@arimo.local>

Hi

  It looks like Apache issue. Look for Apache's  access and error logs.



-- 
mr. M01510 & guide Loadstone-GPS


On Tue, 3 Mar 2009, Oliver Glueck wrote:

> Hi,
>
> if I click on the archive of a list, I get this error:
>
> Forbidden
>
> You don't have permission to access /pipermail/about-ox/ on this server.
>
> But bin/check_perms says, that everything is ok.
> It is an apache problem?
>
>
> /usr/local/mailman# ls -al archives/private/
> insgesamt 56
> drwxrws--- 14 root     mailman 4096 2009-03-03 10:30 .
> drwxrwsr-x  4 root     mailman 4096 2009-02-27 17:54 ..
> drwxrwsr-x  5 www-data mailman 4096 2009-03-02 03:27 about-ox
> drwxrwsr-x  2 www-data mailman 4096 2009-03-01 15:21 about-ox.mbox 
> Apache2, mailman.conf:
> ScriptAlias /mailman/       /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
> Alias   /pipermail/     /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
> <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/">
>       AddDefaultCharset Off
> </Directory>
>
> Thanks,
> Oliver
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/arimo%40iki.fi
>
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>

From glueck at igroup.de  Tue Mar  3 12:30:02 2009
From: glueck at igroup.de (Oliver Glueck)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 12:30:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Forbidden
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0903031237410.10818@arimo.local>
References: <49AD021C.6040706@igroup.de>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0903031237410.10818@arimo.local>
Message-ID: <49AD14BA.7000902@igroup.de>

Hi,

"Symbolic link not allowed or link target not accessible: 
/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/about-ox.."

But I added:
<Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/">
-->   Options +FollowSymLinks  <---
        AddDefaultCharset Off
</Directory>

What else?


Ari Moisio schrieb:
> Hi
>
>  It looks like Apache issue. Look for Apache's  access and error logs.
>
>
>

From barry at list.org  Tue Mar  3 16:17:41 2009
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 10:17:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to change the List-ID (RFC2919)
In-Reply-To: <49ACFBC8.7030800@iem.at>
References: <PC187020090302073146056297ba7fe0@msapiro> <49AC0693.60300@iem.at>
	<73A6C04A-D12C-42E3-A8DD-A22D2A93C4AB@list.org>
	<87vdqral77.fsf@xemacs.org>
	<D7FDD78D-9272-4A94-82C8-68E30293F8D6@list.org>
	<87sklv9wep.fsf@xemacs.org>
	<782FB77D-D84D-47D8-8480-CDC1EDBC07C9@list.org>
	<49ACFBC8.7030800@iem.at>
Message-ID: <ED9341D8-6BA7-4FB2-86F4-A828D89F11AF@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mar 3, 2009, at 4:43 AM, IEM - network operating center (IOhannes m  
zmoelnig) wrote:

> Barry Warsaw wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>> The core question is whether /someone/ should be able to (easily)  
>> set the List-ID, and I think we agree the answer to that is "yes".   
>> You state that command-line configuration would be fine for MM2,  
>> and I agree with that too. :)  I still think the posting address  
>> makes for a fine default value (well, s/@/./ of course).
>
> i agree wholeheartily with all of the above.
> and i do want this feature :-)

It's now in the Mailman 3 trunk. :)

Barry

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From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar  3 16:23:48 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 07:23:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Forbidden
In-Reply-To: <49AD021C.6040706@igroup.de>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903030723480656dbf4cc40@msapiro>

Oliver Glueck wrote:
>
>But bin/check_perms says, that everything is ok.
>It is an apache problem?
>
>
>/usr/local/mailman# ls -al archives/private/
>insgesamt 56
>drwxrws--- 14 root     mailman 4096 2009-03-03 10:30 .


The archives/private/ directory must be either 'drwxrws--x' or owned by
the web server user. See the warning box at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node9.html>.

You may have received this from check_perms

Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
 This could allow other users on your system to read private archives.
 If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
 installation manual on how to fix this.

And just set o-x without consulting the installation manual.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From savoy at uleth.ca  Tue Mar  3 17:53:22 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 09:53:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Tricky admin_immed_notify problem
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903021638280875f3789907@msapiro>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42C37@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<PC1870200903021638280875f3789907@msapiro>
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42C91@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>


>>Jim Savoy wrote:

>>  I am not all that familiar with cron. Is that "crontab -u mailman
>>crontab.in" something you need to run every time you reboot the
system?
>>Or does it add something to /etc/cron.d or /etc/cron.daily or
/etc/crontab?
>>(I don't see anything new in those).

>Mark Sapiro wrote:

>As you discovered it puts the commands from crontab.in into the mailman
>user's crontab which is likely /var/spool/cron/mailman. It stays there
>across boots.

>This is the correct place for the mailman crontab. The ones in cron.d
are a slightly different format.

Got it. And yes, there is an entry now in /var/spool/cron for mailman.

>But note, that almost all the jobs in crontab.in should be run. They
all have a function and the only one you can safely ignore is
gate_news if you aren't running any lists with a news->mail gateway.

I will run more of them eventually. Since we hadn't run any of these
in years (ever, in fact) I thought it might be a bad idea to "release
the
hounds" all at once. The madness that took place with the "-1 pending
requests"
confirmed that. By the way - thanks for your excellent script. Saved me
and
the owners the hassle of fixing the minus-one problem (243 lists were in
that
state and they are all fixed now!).

>For the others, you need to at least read the comments in crontab.in
and understand what the job does before deciding not to run it.

I will probably leave the gateway news stuff out forever. And also the
password
reminder thing, as we don't want to bombard our students with more info
(most
of our 900+ lists are NOT opt-in, and most are read-only, and we rotate
thousands
of different users through these lists each semester, without their
knowledge).
I probably won't run the "disabled users" reminder either, for the same
reason
as above.

So that just leaves two more things to run via cron: digests and archive
gzipping.
I will run the digests thing next and if that goes smoothly, unleash the
archive gzipping. 

>This issue only existed with lists that were migrated from pre 2.1.5 to
2.1.5 and only exists in 2.1.5.

Precisely our situation. Thanks.

 - jim -


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar  3 18:27:49 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 09:27:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Tricky admin_immed_notify problem
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42C91@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <PC18702009030309274901560116208d@msapiro>

Savoy, Jim wrote:
>
>>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>For the others, you need to at least read the comments in crontab.in
>and understand what the job does before deciding not to run it.
>
>I will probably leave the gateway news stuff out forever. And also the
>password
>reminder thing, as we don't want to bombard our students with more info
>(most
>of our 900+ lists are NOT opt-in, and most are read-only, and we rotate
>thousands
>of different users through these lists each semester, without their
>knowledge).


Fair enough, although the sending of reminders is a list option. You
can set

DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = No

in mm_cfg.py and see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/MIBp> for the
easy way to set send_reminders to No for existing lists, and then you
could set send_reminders to Yes for those few lists where it might be
useful.

>I probably won't run the "disabled users" reminder either, for the same
>reason
>as above.


This has a side effect which may not be important in your environment.
If bounce processing is enabled for a list and
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings is set > 0, when a user's bounce
score reaches the threshold, the users delivery is disabled by bounce
and the first notice is sent. From there the entire process of sending
subsequent notices and removing bouncing members from the list is don
by cron/disabled, so if you have bounce processing is enabled for a
list and bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings is set > 0 and you don't run
cron/disabled, the members who have been disabled by bounce will never
be removed.


>So that just leaves two more things to run via cron: digests and archive
>gzipping.
>I will run the digests thing next and if that goes smoothly, unleash the
>archive gzipping. 


Actually, gzipping of the archive is the one I don't run. It doesn't
save any space because the monthly .txt files are still kept as well
as the .txt.gz files, but the .txt.gz file will be served in
preference to the .txt file if it exists, even if it is up to a day
old.

The only thing you save is maybe some bandwidth in serving the file,
but the web server may be gunzipping the file and serving the plain
text anyway, so maybe you save nothing.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From savoy at uleth.ca  Tue Mar  3 21:13:39 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 13:13:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Tricky admin_immed_notify problem
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009030309274901560116208d@msapiro>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42C91@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<PC18702009030309274901560116208d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42CEE@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>

>> Jim Savoy wrote:

>>I will probably leave the gateway news stuff out forever. And also the
>>password reminder thing, as we don't want to bombard our students with
>>more info...

> Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Fair enough, although the sending of reminders is a list option. You
can set

>DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = No

Yep - that is the default we have set for all lists, so passwords have
to be found by the user themselves (through the links in their email)
or by sending me mail.

So I guess the downside to not running that cron job is that if an owner
changed that setting, nothing would happen as far as a monthly reminder
goes.


>>I probably won't run the "disabled users" reminder either, for the
same
>>reason as above.


>This has a side effect which may not be important in your environment.
>If bounce processing is enabled for a list and
>bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings is set > 0, when a user's bounce
>score reaches the threshold, the users delivery is disabled by bounce
>and the first notice is sent. From there the entire process of sending
>subsequent notices and removing bouncing members from the list is don
>by cron/disabled, so if you have bounce processing is enabled for a
>list and bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings is set > 0 and you don't run
>cron/disabled, the members who have been disabled by bounce will never
>be removed.

I see. OK I will add this one in a bit later on to clean up some of
these
lists. Some of our more ancient lists that are not updated by cron (and
have most likely been abandoned) have nothing but bad addresses
subscribed
to them. Now I know why!



>>So that just leaves two more things to run via cron: digests and
archive
>>gzipping. I will run the digests thing next and if that goes smoothly,
unleash the
>>archive gzipping. 

>Actually, gzipping of the archive is the one I don't run.

I won't either then (!). I was only considering running that to save
space
anyway, but I can probably free up lots of archive space by deleting
some
abandoned lists.

Thanks Mark.

 - jim -


From savoy at uleth.ca  Tue Mar  3 21:20:00 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 13:20:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New crontab query: senddigests
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42CF2@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>

Hi all,

 

   I started a new thread for this as it no longer applies to cron, but

rather digests.

 

I just ran the senddigests cron option (again, for the first time ever)

but it didn't seem to do anything. I can't really understand what it
does anyway

(from the description given). All of our lists allow users to select the
digest

option ("digestable=yes"), and the digests are sent out when the 30k
threshold is

reached ("digest_size_threshold=30"). The next option asks if a digest
should be

sent out DAILY when the threshold isn't reached
("digest_send_periodic=yes").

 

So that is how all of our lists have been set all this time, and the
digest mails

seem to have been working, despite not having run anything in crontab.

 

The crontab entry for senddigests says:

 

# Noon, mail digests for lists that do periodic as well as threshhold
delivery.

0 12 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /mail/mailman/cron/senddigests

 

 

Not sure what this does differently, other than maybe force the digests
to go out

at noon, rather than the vague "DAILY" option from above. Can anyone
share any

light? I just ran it and nothing seemed to happen.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar  3 22:30:59 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 13:30:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New crontab query: senddigests
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42CF2@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <PC187020090303133059010902ccee68@msapiro>

Savoy, Jim wrote:
>
>All of our lists allow users to select the
>digest
>
>option ("digestable=yes"), and the digests are sent out when the 30k
>threshold is
>
>reached ("digest_size_threshold=30"). The next option asks if a digest
>should be
>
>sent out DAILY when the threshold isn't reached
>("digest_send_periodic=yes").
>
> 
>
>So that is how all of our lists have been set all this time, and the
>digest mails
>
>seem to have been working, despite not having run anything in crontab.


The digest messages are accumulated for a list in a mbox format file
lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox. When a new message arrives and is added to
digest.mbox and the size of digest.mbox is now greater than the list's
digest_size_threshold, a digest is sent at that time for that list,
and the digest.mbox is removed.

So, digests based on digest_size_threshold will work whether or not
cron/senddigests is run.


>The crontab entry for senddigests says:
>
> 
>
># Noon, mail digests for lists that do periodic as well as threshhold
>delivery.
>
>0 12 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /mail/mailman/cron/senddigests
>
> 
>
> 
>
>Not sure what this does differently, other than maybe force the digests
>to go out
>
>at noon, rather than the vague "DAILY" option from above. Can anyone
>share any
>
>light? I just ran it and nothing seemed to happen.


Running cron/senddigests will send a digest for any list which has a
digest.mbox file and for which digest_send_periodic=yes regardless of
how big the digest is. So, if you ran it and nothing happened, there
were no such lists. This seems unlikely. Are you sure no digests were
sent?

And yes, running it at noon daily forces the periodic digests at noon,
but you can chose another time. I prefer mine to go over night so I
run cron/senddigests daily at 03:30.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From savoy at uleth.ca  Tue Mar  3 23:53:00 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 15:53:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New crontab query: senddigests
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090303133059010902ccee68@msapiro>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42CF2@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<PC187020090303133059010902ccee68@msapiro>
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42D33@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>


>Mark Sapiro wrote:

>The digest messages are accumulated for a list in a mbox format file
>lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox. When a new message arrives and is added to
>digest.mbox and the size of digest.mbox is now greater than the list's
>digest_size_threshold, a digest is sent at that time for that list,
>and the digest.mbox is removed.

>So, digests based on digest_size_threshold will work whether or not
cron/senddigests is run.

Right. I'm with you so far.

>Running cron/senddigests will send a digest for any list which has a
>digest.mbox file and for which digest_send_periodic=yes regardless of
>how big the digest is.

This is where we part ways.

Without the senddigests cron job, isn't the above statement also true
anyway? Because the digest_sent_periodic=yes setting also doesn't care
if the digest.mbox is over 30K. It just sends out a message "daily"
(what
time, I do not know) whenever a digest.mbox exists.

So my question was: Is the only reason you run the cron job in the first
place,
Is to force that "daily" run to a specific time (eg noon)? I say this
because I
have never ran that cron job, but I'm pretty sure everyone gets their
digests
anyway.


> So, if you ran it and nothing happened, there were no such lists. This
seems
>unlikely. Are you sure no digests were sent?

I guess it's possible no digest.mboxes exist. There aren't that many
digest
users here.

>And yes, running it at noon daily forces the periodic digests at noon,
>but you can chose another time. I prefer mine to go over night so I
>run cron/senddigests daily at 03:30.

I will probably set it up to run at 3:00 am as well. I just ran it at
12:48
today so I could watch it (do nothing (!)).

I suppose I should change the setting that sends a digest if it exceeds
30K
too (change it to 1000K or something, so that people never get more than
one
digest-per-day), and just use the cron job to send once a day,
regardless of size,
at 3:00. I just am not clear on why I need a cronjob to do that, unless
its
only purpose is to force a specific time.

 - jim -



From savoy at uleth.ca  Wed Mar  4 00:03:32 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 16:03:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New crontab query: senddigests
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090303133059010902ccee68@msapiro>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42CF2@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<PC187020090303133059010902ccee68@msapiro>
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42D37@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>


>Mark Sapiro wrote:

>The digest messages are accumulated for a list in a mbox format file
>lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox. When a new message arrives and is added to
>digest.mbox and the size of digest.mbox is now greater than the list's
>digest_size_threshold, a digest is sent at that time for that list,
>and the digest.mbox is removed.


Hmmm. Removed huh? Maybe our digesting situation isn't so healthy
afterall.
I just did a recursive listing of the /lists directory and there are
quite
a few digest.mboxes in there! A lot of them have really old dates on
them,
and NONE of them is over 30K. So I think the problem we have here is
that
our digests ONLY go out when the digest.mbox exceeds 30K, and not
"daily,
regardless of size". Maybe that's where the senddigests cron job kicks
in.

That still doesn't explain why they are all still there and nothing was
delivered when I ran the cron job at 12:48 today...






From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  4 00:06:55 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 15:06:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New crontab query: senddigests
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42D33@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <PC187020090303150655023434ff0ba1@msapiro>

Savoy, Jim wrote:
>
>>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>Running cron/senddigests will send a digest for any list which has a
>>digest.mbox file and for which digest_send_periodic=yes regardless of
>>how big the digest is.
>
>This is where we part ways.
>
>Without the senddigests cron job, isn't the above statement also true
>anyway?


No.


>Because the digest_sent_periodic=yes setting also doesn't care
>if the digest.mbox is over 30K. It just sends out a message "daily"
>(what
>time, I do not know) whenever a digest.mbox exists.


It relies on cron/senddigests being run in order to do this and "daily"
is whenever cron/senddigests runs and could be "twice daily" or "Mon,
Wed and Fri" or whatever depending on when cron/senddigests runs.


>So my question was: Is the only reason you run the cron job in the first
>place,
>Is to force that "daily" run to a specific time (eg noon)? I say this
>because I
>have never ran that cron job, but I'm pretty sure everyone gets their
>digests
>anyway.


Either they were only getting digests when the size threshold was
reached, or if they were getting them daily at a specific time, then
something was running cron/senddigests at that time.


>> So, if you ran it and nothing happened, there were no such lists. This
>seems
>>unlikely. Are you sure no digests were sent?
>
>I guess it's possible no digest.mboxes exist. There aren't that many
>digest
>users here.
>
>>And yes, running it at noon daily forces the periodic digests at noon,
>>but you can chose another time. I prefer mine to go over night so I
>>run cron/senddigests daily at 03:30.
>
>I will probably set it up to run at 3:00 am as well. I just ran it at
>12:48
>today so I could watch it (do nothing (!)).
>
>I suppose I should change the setting that sends a digest if it exceeds
>30K
>too (change it to 1000K or something, so that people never get more than
>one
>digest-per-day), and just use the cron job to send once a day,
>regardless of size,
>at 3:00. I just am not clear on why I need a cronjob to do that, unless
>its
>only purpose is to force a specific time.


You need the cron job because nothing else in Mailman sends digests
periodically. The only other mechanism sends a digest when the list's
digest.mbox exceeds a certain size, which may not happen for weeks on
a low traffic list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  4 00:09:25 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 15:09:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New crontab query: senddigests
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42D37@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <PC187020090303150925084334ff0de4@msapiro>

Savoy, Jim wrote:
>
>>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>The digest messages are accumulated for a list in a mbox format file
>>lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox. When a new message arrives and is added to
>>digest.mbox and the size of digest.mbox is now greater than the list's
>>digest_size_threshold, a digest is sent at that time for that list,
>>and the digest.mbox is removed.
>
>
>Hmmm. Removed huh? Maybe our digesting situation isn't so healthy
>afterall.
>I just did a recursive listing of the /lists directory and there are
>quite
>a few digest.mboxes in there! A lot of them have really old dates on
>them,
>and NONE of them is over 30K. So I think the problem we have here is
>that
>our digests ONLY go out when the digest.mbox exceeds 30K, and not
>"daily,
>regardless of size". Maybe that's where the senddigests cron job kicks
>in.


Right.


>That still doesn't explain why they are all still there and nothing was
>delivered when I ran the cron job at 12:48 today...


Are you sure digest_send_periodic is set to Yes for those lists that
have old digest.mbox files?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From savoy at uleth.ca  Wed Mar  4 00:25:58 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 16:25:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New crontab query: senddigests
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090303150655023434ff0ba1@msapiro>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42D33@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<PC187020090303150655023434ff0ba1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42D3C@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>


>Mark Sapiro wrote:

>You need the cron job because nothing else in Mailman sends digests
>periodically. The only other mechanism sends a digest when the list's
>digest.mbox exceeds a certain size, which may not happen for weeks on
>a low traffic list.


Ok I understand 100% now. The only reason I kept telling you that I am
"pretty sure" people are getting their digests, is because I went to
someone's
office once and saw that they had some digests in their inbox.

And I personally forced one of my own tests lists to get a 30K
digest.mbox
so I could see what a digest delivery looked like.

In looking over my recursive listing closely, I see that there are 501
total digest.mboxes out there (!). All of them are 30K or under.


>>That still doesn't explain why they are all still there and nothing
was 
>>delivered when I ran the cron job at 12:48 today...

>Are you sure digest_send_periodic is set to Yes for those lists that
have
>old digest.mbox files?

Absolutely. That is the default we set up and I just checked a bunch of
lists to verify it.

I did check out a couple of the lists that had outstanding digest.mboxes
and found that they didn't have any subscribers with the digest option
checked
(as I said, very few of our users know about and use this feature) so
perhaps
nothing was delivered today because there was just nothing to be
delivered.
I take it a digest.mobx is created regardless of whether or not a list
has
any members using that option. So perhaps everything is fine and
starting this
daily senddigests cron job will be a seamless transition.

Thanks!

 - jim -






From Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au  Wed Mar  4 00:35:37 2009
From: Alan.Rubin at nt.gov.au (Alan Rubin)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 09:05:37 +0930
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SOP for notifying list owners
Message-ID: <C3732E0A9E242D46A2B2C0CDC1F7134C490AC5@emdpb-e1.prod.main.ntgov>

Hello,

Just curious if the community has a Standard Operating Procedure for
list administrators to notify list owners when there are changes to the
Mailman installation.  Maybe like a list of list owners? 

Regards,

Alan Rubin
Technician Unix
DCS Midrange Services
Phone: +61 (08) 8999 5111
Fax:      +61 (08) 8999 7493
e-Mail: alan.rubin at nt.gov.au
 

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  4 02:07:36 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 17:07:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New crontab query: senddigests
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42D3C@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <PC18702009030317073607814a0b0631@msapiro>

Savoy, Jim wrote:
>
>>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>In looking over my recursive listing closely, I see that there are 501
>total digest.mboxes out there (!). All of them are 30K or under.
>
>
>>>That still doesn't explain why they are all still there and nothing
>was 
>>>delivered when I ran the cron job at 12:48 today...
>
>>Are you sure digest_send_periodic is set to Yes for those lists that
>have
>>old digest.mbox files?
>
>Absolutely. That is the default we set up and I just checked a bunch of
>lists to verify it.
>
>I did check out a couple of the lists that had outstanding digest.mboxes
>and found that they didn't have any subscribers with the digest option
>checked
>(as I said, very few of our users know about and use this feature) so
>perhaps
>nothing was delivered today because there was just nothing to be
>delivered.


But, assuming this is a more or less standard Mailman (2.1.5), even if
no one is subscribed to the digest, when cron/senddigests runs, the
digests should still be prepared and the digest.mbox unlinked, even if
there are ultimately no recipients. The only thing that affects this
is if the list's digestable setting is No, and all this does is keep
from creating the digest.mbox in the first place.

Are there any Mailman error log entries from when senddigests ran? Did
you run it from cron or by hand. If by hand, did you run it as
'mailman' and did it produce any output? If from cron, and it produced
any output, the output was probably mailed to 'mailman' which is
probably the 'mailman' list, and where does it go from there?

Note: it is a good idea to put a MAILTO= at the beginning of Mailman's
crontab to direct any mailed output to a good place. There is normally
only mailed output if something goes wrong.


>I take it a digest.mobx is created regardless of whether or not a list
>has
>any members using that option. So perhaps everything is fine and
>starting this
>daily senddigests cron job will be a seamless transition.


Correct, but even if there are no digest members, the digest.mbox will
be unlinked when cron/senddigests successfully runs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  4 02:30:10 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 17:30:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SOP for notifying list owners
In-Reply-To: <C3732E0A9E242D46A2B2C0CDC1F7134C490AC5@emdpb-e1.prod.main.ntgov>
Message-ID: <PC18702009030317301005794a0b054d@msapiro>

Alan Rubin wrote:
>
>Just curious if the community has a Standard Operating Procedure for
>list administrators to notify list owners when there are changes to the
>Mailman installation.  Maybe like a list of list owners? 


Other people may have other ideas. I'm not aware of any Best Current
Practice for this, but what I would do is use bin/list_owners to get
an unduplicated list of all the owners and mail to that list (as To:
or Bcc: recipients). You can use the '-m' option to include moderators.

If this is a 'large' list, you could easily make a Mailman list and
pipe the output of bin/list_owners into bin/sync_members to keep the
list current.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Wed Mar  4 02:46:51 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 01:46:51 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SOP for notifying list owners
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009030317301005794a0b054d@msapiro>
References: <C3732E0A9E242D46A2B2C0CDC1F7134C490AC5@emdpb-e1.prod.main.ntgov>
	<PC18702009030317301005794a0b054d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20090304014651.GW6339@amyl.org.uk>

On Tue, Mar 03, 2009 at 05:30:10PM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Alan Rubin wrote:
> >
> >Just curious if the community has a Standard Operating Procedure for
> >list administrators to notify list owners when there are changes to the
> >Mailman installation.  Maybe like a list of list owners? 
> 
> 
> Other people may have other ideas. I'm not aware of any Best Current
> Practice for this, but what I would do is use bin/list_owners to get
> an unduplicated list of all the owners and mail to that list (as To:
> or Bcc: recipients). You can use the '-m' option to include moderators.

I tend to daily/hourly cron "list_owners > /etc/mail/mailman-owners"
and have an exim alias generated from that, e.g., 
	"listowners 	:include:/etc/mail/mailman-owners"

If I wanted to always include some other addresses (e.g, my RT queue,
my sysadmin's list, my syschanges list), stash those addresses in a
file, and cat 'em in after list_owners has done its business: others may
combine their "always" alias and list_owners output to generate another
alias for mailing 
(e.g.:
       list-change-notify:	foo, baa, baz at example.com
       listowners:		:include:/etc/mail/mailman-owners
       list-change:		list-change-notify, listowners
)

Typically, cron-generated (from scripts/database lookups) files *don't*
get included in my revision systems.

-- 
``The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one
  persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress
  depends on the unreasonable man.'' (George Bernard Shaw)

From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Wed Mar  4 03:47:53 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 20:47:53 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SOP for notifying list owners
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009030317301005794a0b054d@msapiro>
References: <PC18702009030317301005794a0b054d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49ADEBD9.5090107@riverviewtech.net>

On 3/3/2009 7:30 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> If this is a 'large' list, you could easily make a Mailman list and 
> pipe the output of bin/list_owners into bin/sync_members to keep the 
> list current.

Might this be an idea for a ""virtual (dynamic) list that is a list of 
all the list owners?  Say something for a future version of Mailman?



Grant. . . .

From evan at kgnu.org  Tue Mar  3 23:17:10 2009
From: evan at kgnu.org (Evan Perkins)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 15:17:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new-to-the-list question
Message-ID: <49ADAC66.4030003@kgnu.org>

I searched the archives, but couldn't find this question answered there. 
  Is there a way, as the list admin for a number of Mailman-run email 
lists, to find if someone is subscribed to multiple lists?

Thanks,
Evan
-- 
-----
Evan Perkins
Operations Director
KGNU Community Radio
88.5 FM Boulder, 1390 AM Denver
4700 Walnut St.
Boulder, CO 80301-2548
streaming online at http://www.kgnu.org
303.449.4885/800.737.3030 (Colorado only)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
OK ... so if the Jacksonville Jaguars are known as the "Jags" and the 
Tampa Bay Buccaneers are known as the "Bucs", what does that make the 
Tennessee Titans? -- George Carlin

From mitchell.gore at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 01:54:59 2009
From: mitchell.gore at gmail.com (Mitch Gore)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 18:54:59 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New User - Cant send to new list
Message-ID: <addc01320903031654w69fb7689m9de53a49d1150e93@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am trying to set up a mailman server and having some real difficulties.

Details:
Using CentOS 5.2
MTA = Postfix

I have postfix working, i can log into my user and send and receive
messages.  I then installed mailman and started configuring based on
this page:

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showpost.php?p=453178&postcount=2

I created a list named test. Now, i logged into the web interface and
added some users, all seemed well.

Then from my postfix mailbox (who is a member/admin) i sent a message
to the list.

I get this bounce back:

<test at xxxxxx.org>: Command died with status 6:
    "/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman  test mailman". Command output: Illegal
    command: test

>From my research it appears I have some issue with postfix and mailman
but im not sure.  Can you please help?

Thanks,

-- 
Mitchell

From sam at medicarebeauty.com  Thu Mar  5 09:15:40 2009
From: sam at medicarebeauty.com (Wissam Yamout)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 00:15:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [listname]-bounce@mydomain.com ON BEHALF HELP!!!!!
Message-ID: <003b01c99d6a$93ba8ae0$bb2fa0a0$@com>

Dear Sir,

 

Whenever an email is sent to my list I get this : [listname]-bounce at mydomain.com ON BEHALF [email]  in the mail header

 

Is there a way to get rid of this and put just [email].

 

Plus how can anyone send emails to the list without the process of approving and confirming and stuff I just need visitors to my website to be able to send emails to info at mydomain.com and I want my employees to get these email. I don?t want the confirmation part and approval part by the visitor.

 

How can I do that?

 

Thank you

Sam

 


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Wed Mar  4 14:48:44 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 13:48:44 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new-to-the-list question
In-Reply-To: <49ADAC66.4030003@kgnu.org>
References: <49ADAC66.4030003@kgnu.org>
Message-ID: <20090304134843.GX6339@amyl.org.uk>

On Tue, Mar 03, 2009 at 03:17:10PM -0700, Evan Perkins wrote:
> I searched the archives, but couldn't find this question answered there. 
>  Is there a way, as the list admin for a number of Mailman-run email 
> lists, to find if someone is subscribed to multiple lists?

find_member(8)?

(assuming all the lists are on the same machine/instance)

-- 
``What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter as if he were a man, but if
  he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?''
  (Richard Feynman)

From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Wed Mar  4 14:25:23 2009
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:25:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discard mystery
Message-ID: <6574CE6D6D1A5141E03BE9DC@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>

Hi,

we're running Mailman 2.1.9 and can't upgrade because our Python is too 
old. Today we had an issue with a message that was sent by our secretary to 
our staff list. Her message kept being discarded by Mailman and I can't 
find the reason. The list in question has all filter settings either turned 
off or set to "Hold". She sends messages to that list regularly and there 
haven't been problems like that before. She *does* use Outlook 11 as MUA 
and sends her messages as HTML (with multipart/alternative), both of which 
I frown upon, but the MIME filter is off and it's never been a problem 
before. All I can find in the logs are these lines:

Mar 04 12:27:07 2009 (20263) Message discarded, msgid: 
<000301c99cbc$262fa090$2c515f86 at ad.unikoeln.de>
Mar 04 13:43:43 2009 (20263) Message discarded, msgid: 
<000601c99cc6$d94b05c0$2c515f86 at ad.unikoeln.de>
Mar 04 13:50:59 2009 (20263) Message discarded, msgid: 
<000001c99cc7$dd85d3d0$2c515f86 at ad.unikoeln.de>
Mar 04 13:56:34 2009 (20263) Message discarded, msgid: 
<000001c99cc7$401fca60$2c515f86 at ad.unikoeln.de>

That's the same message, resent over and over to no avail. I had her send 
it to me privately and it arrived OK.

Is there any way to figure out why Mailman discarded it? Its content is 
innocuous, so I'd be willing to redirect it to Mark or whoever might be 
interested in investigating this ...
-- 
     .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Geb?ude 52), Zimmer 18.:.
                 .:.Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK).:.
.:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ? +49-221-478-5587.:.
                   .:.:.:.Skype: shagedorn.:.:.:.
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From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Wed Mar  4 14:56:03 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 13:56:03 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [listname]-bounce@mydomain.com ON BEHALF
	HELP!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <003b01c99d6a$93ba8ae0$bb2fa0a0$@com>
References: <003b01c99d6a$93ba8ae0$bb2fa0a0$@com>
Message-ID: <20090304135603.GY6339@amyl.org.uk>

On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 12:15:40AM -0800, Wissam Yamout wrote:
> Whenever an email is sent to my list I get this :
> [listname]-bounce at mydomain.com ON BEHALF [email]  in the mail header
> 
> Is there a way to get rid of this and put just [email].

ISTR it's an Outlook "feature", this seems plausible, given:

    Message-ID: <003b01c99d6a$93ba8ae0$bb2fa0a0$@com>
    X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0

 -- so changing your MUA (not in itself a bad idea...) may help.

There are a couple of things in the list-archive (istr) detailing this.

> Plus how can anyone send emails to the list without the process of
> approving and confirming and stuff I just need visitors to my website
> to be able to send emails to info at mydomain.com 

I'd imagine the option that's holding mail is generic_nonmember_action

> and I want my employees to get these email. I don?t want the 
> confirmation part and approval part by the visitor.

Why not just use a standard multi-member email alias, or perhaps, if
it's for support stuff, RT [0]?

[0] http://bestpractical.com/rt

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  4 15:01:12 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 06:01:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new-to-the-list question
In-Reply-To: <20090304134843.GX6339@amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <PC18702009030406011203903e3b34d2@msapiro>

Adam McGreggor 

>On Tue, Mar 03, 2009 at 03:17:10PM -0700, Evan Perkins wrote:
>> I searched the archives, but couldn't find this question answered there. 
>>  Is there a way, as the list admin for a number of Mailman-run email 
>> lists, to find if someone is subscribed to multiple lists?
>
>find_member(8)?


Yes, bin/find_member will do it, but it requires shell access. For a
list admin without such access, the answer is no. The user can list
all her subscriptions on the same host (domain) from the her options
page, but a list admin is not allowed.

An admin of multiple lists can check the membership lists of each list,
but that's all.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  4 15:06:53 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 06:06:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [listname]-bounce@mydomain.com ON BEHALF
	HELP!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <003b01c99d6a$93ba8ae0$bb2fa0a0$@com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009030406065302033e186ec0@msapiro>

Wissam Yamout wrote:
>
>Whenever an email is sent to my list I get this : [listname]-bounce at mydomain.com ON BEHALF [email]  in the mail header
>
> 
>
>Is there a way to get rid of this and put just [email].


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/RoA9>.


>Plus how can anyone send emails to the list without the process of approving and confirming and stuff I just need visitors to my website to be able to send emails to info at mydomain.com and I want my employees to get these email. I don?t want the confirmation part and approval part by the visitor.
>
> 
>
>How can I do that?


As Adam indicates, set Privacy options... -> Sender filters ->
generic_nonmember_action to Accept.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  4 15:12:13 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 06:12:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New User - Cant send to new list
In-Reply-To: <addc01320903031654w69fb7689m9de53a49d1150e93@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009030406121301259836f20a@msapiro>

Mitch Gore wrote:
>
>I am trying to set up a mailman server and having some real difficulties.
>
>Details:
>Using CentOS 5.2
>MTA = Postfix
>
>I have postfix working, i can log into my user and send and receive
>messages.  I then installed mailman and started configuring based on
>this page:
>
>http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showpost.php?p=453178&postcount=2
>
>I created a list named test. Now, i logged into the web interface and
>added some users, all seemed well.
>
>Then from my postfix mailbox (who is a member/admin) i sent a message
>to the list.
>
>I get this bounce back:
>
><test at xxxxxx.org>: Command died with status 6:
>    "/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman  test mailman". Command output: Illegal
>    command: test
>
>>From my research it appears I have some issue with postfix and mailman
>but im not sure.  Can you please help?


Your aliases are wrong. You have

test: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman  test mailman"

That should be

test: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test"

You can avoid dealing with manual aliases all together by following
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  4 15:32:52 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 06:32:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discard mystery
In-Reply-To: <6574CE6D6D1A5141E03BE9DC@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
References: <6574CE6D6D1A5141E03BE9DC@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
Message-ID: <49AE9114.1040803@msapiro.net>

Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:
> 
> we're running Mailman 2.1.9 and can't upgrade because our Python is too
> old. Today we had an issue with a message that was sent by our secretary
> to our staff list. Her message kept being discarded by Mailman and I
> can't find the reason. The list in question has all filter settings
> either turned off or set to "Hold". She sends messages to that list
> regularly and there haven't been problems like that before. She *does*
> use Outlook 11 as MUA and sends her messages as HTML (with
> multipart/alternative), both of which I frown upon, but the MIME filter
> is off and it's never been a problem before. All I can find in the logs
> are these lines:
> 
> Mar 04 12:27:07 2009 (20263) Message discarded, msgid:
> <000301c99cbc$262fa090$2c515f86 at ad.unikoeln.de>
> Mar 04 13:43:43 2009 (20263) Message discarded, msgid:
> <000601c99cc6$d94b05c0$2c515f86 at ad.unikoeln.de>
> Mar 04 13:50:59 2009 (20263) Message discarded, msgid:
> <000001c99cc7$dd85d3d0$2c515f86 at ad.unikoeln.de>
> Mar 04 13:56:34 2009 (20263) Message discarded, msgid:
> <000001c99cc7$401fca60$2c515f86 at ad.unikoeln.de>


One thing that could be doing this given what you've said is if
Non-digest options -> scrub_nondigest is Yes, the message is HTML only
(not multipart/alternative) and ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER = 0

Another possibility is header_filter_rules with a Discard action.


> That's the same message, resent over and over to no avail. I had her
> send it to me privately and it arrived OK.
> 
> Is there any way to figure out why Mailman discarded it? Its content is
> innocuous, so I'd be willing to redirect it to Mark or whoever might be
> interested in investigating this ...

If the above is not the answer, send me the raw message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de  Wed Mar  4 15:44:01 2009
From: Hagedorn at uni-koeln.de (Sebastian Hagedorn)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 15:44:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discard mystery
In-Reply-To: <49AE9114.1040803@msapiro.net>
References: <6574CE6D6D1A5141E03BE9DC@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
	<49AE9114.1040803@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <25804AC74F8974B1E5876D96@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>

--On 4. M?rz 2009 06:32:52 -0800 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> One thing that could be doing this given what you've said is if
> Non-digest options -> scrub_nondigest is Yes,

It's not.

> the message is HTML only
> (not multipart/alternative)

It's not.

> and ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER = 0

It's not.

> Another possibility is header_filter_rules with a Discard action.

Nope: header_filter_rules = []

>> Is there any way to figure out why Mailman discarded it? Its content is
>> innocuous, so I'd be willing to redirect it to Mark or whoever might be
>> interested in investigating this ...
>
> If the above is not the answer, send me the raw message.

Will do.

Thanks, Sebastian
-- 
     .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - RZKR-R1 (Geb?ude 52), Zimmer 18.:.
                 .:.Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK).:.
.:.Universit?t zu K?ln / Cologne University - ? +49-221-478-5587.:.
                   .:.:.:.Skype: shagedorn.:.:.:.
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From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  4 16:22:19 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 07:22:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New User - Cant send to new list
In-Reply-To: <addc01320903040702n7e086c7y3d6a2e7e7d6fa50b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903040722190296c1d8a7fb@msapiro>

Mitch Gore wrote:
>
>Basically I am creating a list with 30,000 or so members to my prof
>organization.  I want the list owner to be able to send email to the
>list but not other members.  If a member reply i want it to goto a
>separate info at domain.com mailbox.  I cant seem to find these settings.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/3YA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  4 17:22:31 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 08:22:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discard mystery SOLVED
In-Reply-To: <25804AC74F8974B1E5876D96@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
References: <6574CE6D6D1A5141E03BE9DC@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>	<49AE9114.1040803@msapiro.net>
	<25804AC74F8974B1E5876D96@tyrion.rrz.uni-koeln.de>
Message-ID: <49AEAAC7.5020009@msapiro.net>

Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:
> --On 4. M?rz 2009 06:32:52 -0800 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>>
>> If the above is not the answer, send me the raw message.
> 
> Will do.


It turns out the message was some kind of edit of a prior list message
and when it was sent to the list, it still contained Mailman's original
X-BeenThere: header for the list causing it to be discarded as a
'looping mail'

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From savoy at uleth.ca  Wed Mar  4 18:59:01 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:59:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New crontab query: senddigests
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009030317073607814a0b0631@msapiro>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42D3C@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<PC18702009030317073607814a0b0631@msapiro>
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42DAF@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>


>>Jim Savoy wrote:

>>I did check out a couple of the lists that had outstanding 
>>digest.mboxes and found that they didn't have any subscribers with the

>>digest option checked.


>Mark Sapiro wrote:

>But, assuming this is a more or less standard Mailman (2.1.5), even if 
>no one is subscribed to the digest, when cron/senddigests runs, the 
>digests should still be prepared and the digest.mbox unlinked, even if 
>there are ultimately no recipients. The only thing that affects this is

>if the list's digestable setting is No, and all this does is keep from 
>creating the digest.mbox in the first place.

All of our lists are digestable (that's the default). I did run one of
your
scripts once-upon-a-time to see how many digest members we had, and
there
were a few dozen.

Unfortunately, I'm still in the state that the only time a digest goes
out
is when it exceeds 30K in size.


>Did you run it from cron or by hand. If by hand, did you run it as
'mailman' and did it produce any output? If from cron, and it produced
any
output, the output was probably mailed to 'mailman' which is probably
the
'mailman' list, and where does it go from there?

Ran it by cron. I don't see any activity at all when it runs (when I ran
the checkdbs program, python lead the way when I did a "top", but
nothing
seems to happen when I run senddigests).

There was also no output sent to the mailman mailing list (I am the
owner
and only subscriber on that list, and it accepts mail from anyone).

Nothing in the Mailman logs either.

>Note: it is a good idea to put a MAILTO= at the beginning of Mailman's
crontab to direct any mailed output to a good place. There is normally
only mailed output if something goes wrong.

Can you give me the exact syntax of that Mark? I am not sure what you
mean
or how I would do that. I did a man on "cron" but don't see anything
there
about MAILTO. Thanks.

 - jim -



From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  4 19:28:28 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:28:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New crontab query: senddigests
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42DAF@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <PC187020090304102828078191f85f69@msapiro>

Savoy, Jim wrote:
>
>Ran it by cron. I don't see any activity at all when it runs (when I ran
>the checkdbs program, python lead the way when I did a "top", but
>nothing
>seems to happen when I run senddigests).


Try

su mailman
cron/senddigests

It probably won't be any different, but it's worth a try. If it does
nothing, what is the contents of the cron/senddigests script. There
appears to be something wrong with it. You could compare it to
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/annotate/419/cron/senddigests>
to see if you have any modifications.


>There was also no output sent to the mailman mailing list (I am the
>owner
>and only subscriber on that list, and it accepts mail from anyone).
>
>Nothing in the Mailman logs either.
>
>>Note: it is a good idea to put a MAILTO= at the beginning of Mailman's
>crontab to direct any mailed output to a good place. There is normally
>only mailed output if something goes wrong.
>
>Can you give me the exact syntax of that Mark? I am not sure what you
>mean
>or how I would do that. I did a man on "cron" but don't see anything
>there
>about MAILTO. Thanks.

You can set environment variables in a crontab via

VARIABLE = value

(whitespace around "=" is optional). See "man 5 crontab". By default,
cron mails any output to the 'owner' of the crontab, but if you set
MAILTO, e.g.

MAILTO=user at example.com

or

MAILTO=localuser

any output will go there.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From savoy at uleth.ca  Wed Mar  4 19:46:58 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 11:46:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New crontab query: senddigests
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090304102828078191f85f69@msapiro>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42DAF@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<PC187020090304102828078191f85f69@msapiro>
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42DBD@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>

>Mark Sapiro wrote:

Thanks for the MAILTO info.

>Try

>su mailman
>cron/senddigests


Boom. That worked. All (but 3) of the 501 digest.mboxes are gone
now and I got a delivery from the list I am a digest member of.
It ran rather quickly too (1 minute flat).

If/when we resolve this, I guess I'll have to start a new thread on
why those 3 didn't go away.  :-)

So obviously, this has something to do with this being run from cron.
You would think all of it would fail though (the checkdbs stuff runs
fine from cron).

>It probably won't be any different, but it's worth a try. If it does
nothing, what is the contents of the cron/senddigests script. There
appears to be something wrong with it. You could compare it to
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/annotate/419/cr
on/senddigests>
to see if you have any modifications.

These were identical.


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  4 20:06:02 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 11:06:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New crontab query: senddigests
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42DBD@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <PC187020090304110602082838fd0dbe@msapiro>

Savoy, Jim wrote:
>
>If/when we resolve this, I guess I'll have to start a new thread on
>why those 3 didn't go away.  :-)


Are they for lists that had a post arrive during or immediately after
the time the digest was sent? In other words do they just contain
messages waiting for the next digest?


>So obviously, this has something to do with this being run from cron.
>You would think all of it would fail though (the checkdbs stuff runs
>fine from cron).


What does "crontab -u mailman -l" show?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From savoy at uleth.ca  Wed Mar  4 20:06:54 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 12:06:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New crontab query: senddigests
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42DBD@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42DAF@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca><PC187020090304102828078191f85f69@msapiro>
	<366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42DBD@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42DC5@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Try

>su mailman
>cron/senddigests


Since we are trying to troubleshoot a very mysterious problem, I should
include all of the information I have. When I ran senddigest by hand (as
user mailman), I did get a warning:

[mailman cron]$ ./senddigests 
/mail/mailman/pythonlib/korean/c/euc_kr.py:24: RuntimeWarning: Python C
API version mismatch for module _koco: This Python has API version 1012,
module _koco has version 1011.
  import _koco


It carried on anyway after that, but perhaps that is what causes cron to
fail.
As I said, when it is run by cron, I don't see anything when I do a
"top" and
there doesn't seem to by any activity at all, so perhaps it's instantly
failing
because of this Python koco warning. I didn't get anything mailed to me
when I
added the MAILTO though...

 - jim -


From savoy at uleth.ca  Wed Mar  4 20:24:57 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 12:24:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New crontab query: senddigests
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090304110602082838fd0dbe@msapiro>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42DBD@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<PC187020090304110602082838fd0dbe@msapiro>
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42DC9@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>

>> Jim Savoy wrote:

>>So obviously, this has something to do with this being run from cron.
>>You would think all of it would fail though (the checkdbs stuff runs
>>fine from cron).

Hmmm - the above may not be true. Checkdbs did not run this morning.

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>What does "crontab -u mailman -l" show?

I think you nailed it. This is different from cron/crontab.in. The
latest
changes I made are not reflected. So am I supposed to do the:

   cd mailman/cron
   crontab -u mailman crontab.in

every time I make a change to the crontab.in file? I believe that was
the
very first question I asked when I started this thread. :-)

 - jim -


From Tim.Bell at Sun.COM  Wed Mar  4 20:15:09 2009
From: Tim.Bell at Sun.COM (Tim Bell)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 11:15:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New crontab query: senddigests
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42DC5@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42DAF@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<PC187020090304102828078191f85f69@msapiro>
	<366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42DBD@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42DC5@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <49AED33D.2070600@sun.com>

Savoy, Jim wrote:
> I didn't get anything mailed to me when I added the MAILTO though...

Divide and conquer.  First get a dead simple cron job working, maybe one 
that runs every few minutes and does something like:

   date >> /tmp/foo-cron; echo "done"

Once that is working and you are receiving cron notification emails and 
cron logs to look at, then work on getting a cron entry for the 
senddigests job running.

HTH - Tim

From savoy at uleth.ca  Wed Mar  4 20:36:00 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 12:36:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New crontab query: senddigests
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090304110602082838fd0dbe@msapiro>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42DBD@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<PC187020090304110602082838fd0dbe@msapiro>
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42DCC@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>

>>Savoy, Jim wrote:

>>If/when we resolve this, I guess I'll have to start a new thread on
>>why those 3 didn't go away.  :-)

>Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Are they for lists that had a post arrive during or immediately after
>the time the digest was sent? In other words do they just contain
>messages waiting for the next digest?

Two of them yes, but the other two no. I will deal with this later and
Start a new thread if they don't go out tomorrow.

>What does "crontab -u mailman -l" show?

I re-ran the "crontab -u mailman crontab.in" and my changes have been
reflected. The old edit-the-source-code-and-forget-to-recompile problem!

All is well now. Thanks for your patience.



From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  4 22:19:03 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 13:19:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New crontab query: senddigests
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42DC5@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903041319030546054a8ca5@msapiro>

Savoy, Jim wrote:
>
>Since we are trying to troubleshoot a very mysterious problem, I should
>include all of the information I have. When I ran senddigest by hand (as
>user mailman), I did get a warning:
>
>[mailman cron]$ ./senddigests 
>/mail/mailman/pythonlib/korean/c/euc_kr.py:24: RuntimeWarning: Python C
>API version mismatch for module _koco: This Python has API version 1012,
>module _koco has version 1011.
>  import _koco


That says Python has been updated since Mailman was last installed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  4 22:31:24 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 13:31:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New crontab query: senddigests
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42DC9@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903041331240843efc08563@msapiro>

Savoy, Jim wrote:
>
>I think you nailed it. This is different from cron/crontab.in. The
>latest
>changes I made are not reflected. So am I supposed to do the:
>
>   cd mailman/cron
>   crontab -u mailman crontab.in
>
>every time I make a change to the crontab.in file? I believe that was
>the
>very first question I asked when I started this thread. :-)


Yes, it was one of the first questions you asked, and it went
unanswered, but now you know.

Mailman's crontab is /var/spool/cron/mailman.

crontab -u mailman crontab.in

copies crontab.in to /var/spool/cron/mailman, but creates no other link
between them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  4 22:33:04 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 13:33:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New crontab query: senddigests
In-Reply-To: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42DCC@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903041333040218efc082de@msapiro>

Savoy, Jim wrote:
>
>>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>Are they for lists that had a post arrive during or immediately after
>>the time the digest was sent? In other words do they just contain
>>messages waiting for the next digest?
>
>Two of them yes, but the other two no. I will deal with this later and
>Start a new thread if they don't go out tomorrow.

For the two old ones, be sure to check the list's digest_send_periodic
setting.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From savoy at uleth.ca  Wed Mar  4 22:53:59 2009
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Savoy, Jim)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 14:53:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New crontab query: senddigests
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903041333040218efc082de@msapiro>
References: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42DCC@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>
	<PC1870200903041333040218efc082de@msapiro>
Message-ID: <366860B666E21241A76B26156DC56E0BD42DFD@EXCHCL2.uleth.ca>


>>Savoy, Jim wrote:

>>Two of them yes, but the other two no.

>Mark Sapiro wrote:

>For the two old ones, be sure to check the list's digest_send_periodic
setting.

Right. That was the difference. They are the only two that say NO to
this query.

Thanks for everything, Mark.


From scott at fyrenice.com  Thu Mar  5 03:29:30 2009
From: scott at fyrenice.com (Dr. Scott S. Jones)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 19:29:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] access from a corporate network environment
Message-ID: <20090305022929.GA21071@comcast.net>

Is there any way to enable my mailman installation so that I can access it
as admin from behind a corporate firewall? 

Scott

-- 
"Outside of a dog a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read."
- Groucho
			
				

Sandy Chiropractic Office		Dr. Scott S. Jones

V: 801.566.5428				MAILING ADDRESS
F: 801.858.9300				PO Box 1154
E: scott at fyrenice.com			Sandy, Utah 84091-1154

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Mar  5 07:05:15 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 15:05:15 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  access from a corporate network environment
In-Reply-To: <20090305022929.GA21071@comcast.net>
References: <20090305022929.GA21071@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <87r61c8pyc.fsf@xemacs.org>

Dr. Scott S. Jones writes:

 > Is there any way to enable my mailman installation so that I can access it
 > as admin from behind a corporate firewall? 

That depends on what the firewall firewalls.  Try accessing the admin
page from behind the firewall.  If it works, you're golden.  If not,
you're going to have to talk to the firewall admin and find out
whether that's OK with them.  If it's not, you'll be in heap big
trouble if they find you masquerading Mailman as some other protocol,
most likely.


From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Thu Mar  5 08:37:03 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 01:37:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] access from a corporate network environment
In-Reply-To: <20090305022929.GA21071@comcast.net>
References: <20090305022929.GA21071@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <49AF811F.9060702@riverviewtech.net>

On 3/4/2009 8:29 PM, Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote:
> Is there any way to enable my mailman installation so that I can 
> access it as admin from behind a corporate firewall?

Which is behind (inside) the firewall, you or Mailman?

Just to confirm, you are wanting to access the Mailman administrative 
web page(s) and not the SMTP server that is hosting the Mailman email 
addresses, correct?

Either way Stephen is right, you will most likely need the blessing of 
the firewall admin(s).



Grant. . . .

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Thu Mar  5 16:12:05 2009
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 08:12:05 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trapping a post with a blank Subject:
Message-ID: <200903051512.n25FC5Zw027584@julie.lostwells.net>

How can I catch a post sent to the list that has nothing in the
Subject: field?

It is the first post in a thread that I need to catch.  Mailman adds
(no subject) before distributing the post, and I can trap all the
responses.  But evidently that is added after the incoming post
headers are scanned.

I've tried several strings in the spam filter, but I don't get
reliable results.  I don't know what various MUA's actually put in
that field, but a simple \n seems to provoke a lot of false trapping
on Windows browsers that are actually sending subject line contents.

Hank



From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar  5 17:59:28 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 08:59:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trapping a post with a blank Subject:
In-Reply-To: <200903051512.n25FC5Zw027584@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903050859280156445ea1f8@msapiro>

Hank van Cleef wrote:
>
>I've tried several strings in the spam filter, but I don't get
>reliable results.


Have you tried

^Subject:\s*$

That should get the ones with an empty subject, but in order to get the
ones with no subject header at all, you need a series of three rules.
The first with regexp as above and action Hold, The second with regexp

^Subject:

and action Accept to pass all the rest of the posts with Subject:
headers and the third with a regexp like "." or "^" (without the
quotes) and action Hold to hold the remaining messages that have no
Subject: header.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From espear2000 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  5 15:50:45 2009
From: espear2000 at hotmail.com (Sulie Espear)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 15:50:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rich-Text emails
Message-ID: <BLU115-W176F40F0018FFAF98B18E0DDA40@phx.gbl>


 

Hello people! Is't possible to send and receive rich-text formatted emails with mailman version 2.1.9? filter_content option is set to No.  I tried to sent an email with some cutting of an excel table from an excel sheet, the email format befor sending it by outlook to the list was set to rich-text, and this email was saved in the archive BUT NEVER RECEIVED any list member!

The email in the archive is converted  into text, the cutting of the excel table was converted into simple text. Is it not possible to get rich-text emails sent by mailman?

Thank you! Have a nice day!

Espear

_________________________________________________________________
More than messages?check out the rest of the Windows Live?.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/

From mitchell.gore at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 16:02:26 2009
From: mitchell.gore at gmail.com (Mitch Gore)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 09:02:26 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New User - Cant send to new list
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009030406121301259836f20a@msapiro>
References: <addc01320903031654w69fb7689m9de53a49d1150e93@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC18702009030406121301259836f20a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <addc01320903040702n7e086c7y3d6a2e7e7d6fa50b@mail.gmail.com>

> Your aliases are wrong. You have
>
> test: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman ?test mailman"
>
> That should be
>
> test: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test"
>
> You can avoid dealing with manual aliases all together by following
> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html>.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> ? ? ? ?The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California ? ?better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

Thanks, Mark!

That was spot on.  I have found that article but last night was
getting frustrated cause I couldnt follow them (aliases and aliases.db
were actually in /etc/mailman)

This morning i got up fresh and walked right through them.

So now that the list is working I need to configure it for my needs.
I have added members and that is working.

Basically I am creating a list with 30,000 or so members to my prof
organization.  I want the list owner to be able to send email to the
list but not other members.  If a member reply i want it to goto a
separate info at domain.com mailbox.  I cant seem to find these settings.

Thanks,
-- 
Mitchell

From mrkimmosley at gmail.com  Thu Mar  5 16:09:52 2009
From: mrkimmosley at gmail.com (Kim Mosley)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 09:09:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Googlegroups vs mailman
Message-ID: <ab1e63aa0903050709y5786d0acja195befa9871382f@mail.gmail.com>

I'd like to hear some opinions of using mailman vs. using GoogleGroups for a
list of 500 people.

Thanks,

Kim

From sam at medicarebeauty.com  Fri Mar  6 11:30:44 2009
From: sam at medicarebeauty.com (Wissam Yamout)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 02:30:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [listname]-bounce@mydomain.com ON BEHALF
	HELP!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <20090304135603.GY6339@amyl.org.uk>
References: <003b01c99d6a$93ba8ae0$bb2fa0a0$@com>
	<20090304135603.GY6339@amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <002101c99e46$9e9dc990$dbd95cb0$@com>

Yes for support purposes.
I set (generic_nonmember_action) to accept now I we get all info emails but I also still get emails like this : 
5 info moderator request(s) waiting
mailman-bounces at host274.hostmonster.com; on behalf of; info-bounces at medicarebeauty.com
	

-----Original Message-----
From: adam mcgreggor [mailto:adam at tanqueray.amyl.org.uk] On Behalf Of Adam McGreggor
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 5:56 AM
To: Wissam Yamout
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] [listname]-bounce at mydomain.com ON BEHALF HELP!!!!!

On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 12:15:40AM -0800, Wissam Yamout wrote:
> Whenever an email is sent to my list I get this :
> [listname]-bounce at mydomain.com ON BEHALF [email]  in the mail header
> 
> Is there a way to get rid of this and put just [email].

ISTR it's an Outlook "feature", this seems plausible, given:

    Message-ID: <003b01c99d6a$93ba8ae0$bb2fa0a0$@com>
    X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0

 -- so changing your MUA (not in itself a bad idea...) may help.

There are a couple of things in the list-archive (istr) detailing this.

> Plus how can anyone send emails to the list without the process of
> approving and confirming and stuff I just need visitors to my website
> to be able to send emails to info at mydomain.com 

I'd imagine the option that's holding mail is generic_nonmember_action

> and I want my employees to get these email. I don?t want the 
> confirmation part and approval part by the visitor.

Why not just use a standard multi-member email alias, or perhaps, if
it's for support stuff, RT [0]?

[0] http://bestpractical.com/rt


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar  5 20:11:51 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 11:11:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [listname]-bounce@mydomain.com ON
	BEHALFHELP!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <002101c99e46$9e9dc990$dbd95cb0$@com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009030511115100936f8e7490@msapiro>

Wissam Yamout wrote:

>Yes for support purposes.
>I set (generic_nonmember_action) to accept now I we get all info emails but I also still get emails like this : 
>5 info moderator request(s) waiting
>mailman-bounces at host274.hostmonster.com; on behalf of; info-bounces at medicarebeauty.com


Go to the admindb web interface which should be linked from the above
mail and deal with the outstanding requests.

If you're asking why are new messages still being held, the "reasons"
are shown both in the email notice and on the admindb page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar  5 20:27:03 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 11:27:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rich-Text emails
In-Reply-To: <BLU115-W176F40F0018FFAF98B18E0DDA40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC18702009030511270306874bbae9b2@msapiro>

Sulie Espear wrote:
>
>Hello people! Is't possible to send and receive rich-text formatted emails with mailman version 2.1.9? filter_content option is set to No.  I tried to sent an email with some cutting of an excel table from an excel sheet, the email format befor sending it by outlook to the list was set to rich-text, and this email was saved in the archive BUT NEVER RECEIVED any list member!
>
>The email in the archive is converted  into text, the cutting of the excel table was converted into simple text. Is it not possible to get rich-text emails sent by mailman?
>


If the post is in the archive, it should have been sent to the list
members. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9> for
troubleshooting.

If the lists Content filtering -> filter_content is No, and Non-digest
options -> scrub_nondigest is No, messages should be sent to the
non-digest list members without alteration by Mailman.

As far as the mail in the archive being "simple text", the pipermail
archive page only contains the plain text parts of the message, but
there should be hyperlinks to the non-plain text parts.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From parturi at bairesweb.com  Thu Mar  5 21:17:22 2009
From: parturi at bairesweb.com (Pablo Arturi)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 17:17:22 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Googlegroups vs mailman
References: <ab1e63aa0903050709y5786d0acja195befa9871382f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F36F2F360B46485A9CC654862B208263@pla>

>I'd like to hear some opinions of using mailman vs. using GoogleGroups for 
>a
>list of 500 people.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Kim

I'm using mailman for 2 years now and I have never had a problem with it. 
For a list with about 5k members and growing.
Easy to setup, easy to manage, ease to use.

Regards,
Pablo 


From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Thu Mar  5 20:45:55 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 13:45:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Googlegroups vs mailman
In-Reply-To: <ab1e63aa0903050709y5786d0acja195befa9871382f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ab1e63aa0903050709y5786d0acja195befa9871382f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49B02BF3.3080903@riverviewtech.net>

On 03/05/09 09:09, Kim Mosley wrote:
> I'd like to hear some opinions of using mailman vs. using 
> GoogleGroups for a list of 500 people.

Here are a few points to think about.

  - Do you want to send the email from a domain / address that you / 
your company uses and / or is responsible for?  (Branding)

  - Do you want to have the ability / responsibility to manage things 
your self or would you rather someone else have it?

  - Do you want to rely on a 3rd party for your communications or would 
you rather keep it in house?



Grant. . . .

From opensource at unixoses.com  Thu Mar  5 20:32:44 2009
From: opensource at unixoses.com (Paul)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:32:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Googlegroups vs mailman
In-Reply-To: <ab1e63aa0903050709y5786d0acja195befa9871382f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ab1e63aa0903050709y5786d0acja195befa9871382f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3912.64.27.180.29.1236281564.squirrel@outsideventure.com>

mailman rocks if you know linux and run your own server.  With anything
else, you are at their mercy.


On Thu, March 5, 2009 10:09 am, Kim Mosley wrote:
> I'd like to hear some opinions of using mailman vs. using GoogleGroups for
> a
> list of 500 people.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kim
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/opensource%40unixoses.com
>
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>



From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Fri Mar  6 03:59:00 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 02:59:00 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Googlegroups vs mailman
In-Reply-To: <ab1e63aa0903050709y5786d0acja195befa9871382f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ab1e63aa0903050709y5786d0acja195befa9871382f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090306025900.GR6339@amyl.org.uk>

On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 09:09:52AM -0600, Kim Mosley wrote:
> I'd like to hear some opinions of using mailman vs. using GoogleGroups for a
> list of 500 people.

With Mailman, all one needs is an email address that works: no need to
create a google-account or whatever they're called this week.

If in the UK/EU (and your machines in in the UK/EU) one doesn't have to
worry oneself with data-transfers out of the UK/EU, too.

In trouble-shooting, in theory, one has access to Mailman & MTA logs.

(and, my own experience, config'ing a Mailman list is *so* much easier
(and obvious). Particulary when trying to get a code-repo commit
messages...)

-- 
``To do each day two things one dislikes is a precept I have followed
  scrupulously: every day I have got up and I have gone to bed.''
  (W Somerset Maugham)

From johnj at external.umass.edu  Fri Mar  6 22:28:44 2009
From: johnj at external.umass.edu (John Jackson)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 16:28:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nesting lists, and other things
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0903061615320.1536@blueman>

Hi Everyone! :)

What's the correct way (if any) to nest Mailman lists?

Is it correct practice to subscribe email addresses from the local 
host's alias file to the same host's Mailman lists?

Are there any suggested ways to expand on the Description information 
displayed on the http://xxx.yyy.zzz.edu/mailman/listinfo/ page, without 
actually sticking all that information into the list's field for that 
(since that's what's also used to form the list's 'Sender's Proper Name' 
in messages that go out from it?

I tried looking for documemtation for Mailman 2.1 but the references I've 
found so far indicate it's still being worked on.  I imagine those docs 
would be where I'd otherwise go to dig into these questions.  Thanks for 
everyone's help.  Mark Sapiro was an exceptional help to me with my last 
question! :)

-John

_________________________________________________________________________
Home: 413-549-7524   Work: 413-545-4326   Cell: 413-530-5445  Amherst, MA
Email: johnj at external.umass.edu  Web: http://www.umass.edu/rso/outingclub

From mrclark219 at gmail.com  Thu Mar  5 22:03:08 2009
From: mrclark219 at gmail.com (Thomas Clark)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 13:03:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Config problems
Message-ID: <1443f7ff0903051303x73af2aebm382f01cf23bf1425@mail.gmail.com>

Hey guys my name is Thomas Clark and I am having trouble setting up mailman
on my Linux Gentoo server.  I have emerged it and set up the mm_cfg.py file,
the problem is that the website that you visit to to join the group is on a
different server then were we want the actual mail to go. I was wondering
how we could get the Post-fix to communicate with both servers so that the
emails are delivered.

Thanks,

Thomas Clark

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Sat Mar  7 02:24:31 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 01:24:31 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Config problems
In-Reply-To: <1443f7ff0903051303x73af2aebm382f01cf23bf1425@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1443f7ff0903051303x73af2aebm382f01cf23bf1425@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090307012431.GE6339@amyl.org.uk>

On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 01:03:08PM -0800, Thomas Clark wrote:
> Hey guys my name is Thomas Clark and I am having trouble setting up mailman
> on my Linux Gentoo server.  I have emerged it and set up the mm_cfg.py file,
> the problem is that the website that you visit to to join the group is on a
> different server then were we want the actual mail to go. I was wondering
> how we could get the Post-fix to communicate with both servers so that the
> emails are delivered.

I'd use ProxyPass and ProxyPassReverse to syphon the web-interfaces from
URL_HOST to EMAIL_HOST. (Refer to the Apache docs for the details, if
you need them.)

Is that do-able in your instance?

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar  7 03:01:44 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 18:01:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nesting lists, and other things
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0903061615320.1536@blueman>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903061801440015c28736bb@msapiro>

John Jackson wrote:
>
>What's the correct way (if any) to nest Mailman lists?


Mailman has a concept of an Umbrella List. This is a list whose members
are other lists. Setting a list to be an Umbrella List actually only
says that password reminders for the lists members
(member at example.com) will be sent to member-owner at example.com (or what
ever suffix you specify as umbrella_member_suffix).

In many cases, Umbrella lists are not very satisfactory. Search the FAQ
at <http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3> for umbrella.


>Is it correct practice to subscribe email addresses from the local 
>host's alias file to the same host's Mailman lists?


It shouldn't be a problem in itself.


>Are there any suggested ways to expand on the Description information 
>displayed on the http://xxx.yyy.zzz.edu/mailman/listinfo/ page, without 
>actually sticking all that information into the list's field for that 
>(since that's what's also used to form the list's 'Sender's Proper Name' 
>in messages that go out from it?


No. But you can add as much as you want to the "About listname" section
of the list specific listinfo page by putting the information in the
list's "info" attribute.  You can also edit the template for the list
specific page via the admin GUI, but the overview is built from code,
not from a template, so it isn't conveniently changed.


>I tried looking for documemtation for Mailman 2.1 but the references I've 
>found so far indicate it's still being worked on.  I imagine those docs 
>would be where I'd otherwise go to dig into these questions.


That and the FAQ and the archives of this list. And yes, the list
owner's manual for Mailman 2.1 is still incomplete.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar  7 03:24:05 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 18:24:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Config problems
In-Reply-To: <20090307012431.GE6339@amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903061824050156571a7de1@msapiro>

Adam McGreggor wrote:

>On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 01:03:08PM -0800, Thomas Clark wrote:
>> Hey guys my name is Thomas Clark and I am having trouble setting up mailman
>> on my Linux Gentoo server.  I have emerged it and set up the mm_cfg.py file,
>> the problem is that the website that you visit to to join the group is on a
>> different server then were we want the actual mail to go. I was wondering
>> how we could get the Post-fix to communicate with both servers so that the
>> emails are delivered.
>
>I'd use ProxyPass and ProxyPassReverse to syphon the web-interfaces from
>URL_HOST to EMAIL_HOST. (Refer to the Apache docs for the details, if
>you need them.)
>
>Is that do-able in your instance?


You need to have a web server that has access to the Mailman
installation either directly or via something like NFS, but as Adam
suggests, this does not have to be the same web server that is visible
to the outside world.

As far as mail from Mailman (outgoing) is concerned, you can specify
any SMTP server via the SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT settings in mm_cfg.py.
For mail to Mailman (incoming) it helps to have an MTA on the Mailman
machine, but this can get Mailman's mail via relay from another MX or
via something like fetchmail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Sun Mar  8 11:05:30 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 05:05:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Config problems
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903061824050156571a7de1@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200903061824050156571a7de1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49B3986A.7000808@riverviewtech.net>

On 3/6/2009 8:24 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> You need to have a web server that has access to the Mailman 
> installation either directly or via something like NFS, but as Adam 
> suggests, this does not have to be the same web server that is 
> visible to the outside world.

If you would like some help configuring either Apache or Squid as a 
reverse proxy, just ask and I'll be happy to help.

> As far as mail from Mailman (outgoing) is concerned, you can specify 
> any SMTP server via the SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT settings in mm_cfg.py. 
>  For mail to Mailman (incoming) it helps to have an MTA on the Mailman 
> machine, but this can get Mailman's mail via relay from another MX or 
> via something like fetchmail.

Using (something like) fetchmail will work, however there will be a 
delay in between fetching cycles.  I would recommend that you have an 
actual SMTP server running on the Mailman system.

As far as routing email to Mailman you can still have your MX records go 
to your email server which can then relay the email over to the Mailman 
server.  This way the Mailman server can be completely internal and not 
have any thing directly exposed to the internet.  In fact, if both the 
reverse proxying and SMTP relaying are used, about the only thing that 
would have to be exposed is the Mailman admin pages, which are passing 
through a proxy, thus it will be very hard to attack.



Grant. . . .

From marshall at cliffhanger.com  Sun Mar  8 16:29:21 2009
From: marshall at cliffhanger.com (Dale & Lora Marshall)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 10:29:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about mailing lists and domain names
Message-ID: <49B3E451.2030306@cliffhanger.com>


Mailman folks -

I'm not really sure how to ask the question or even look up the answer 
in the FAQs or on Google.

I have a new Mailman installation and it seems to be working fine if I 
send email to "list at www.domain.com" but not if I send email to 
"list at domain.com".  I am using Sendmail on Fedora 10 (and name-based 
virtual hosts under Apache).  If I send to the domain without the "www" 
nothing shows up in maillog but if I send to "www" then everything shows 
up.

I have added both formats of the domain name to the 
/etc/mail/relay-domains and /etc/mail/local-host-names.  The aliases are 
set up in a separate file and Sendmail has been changed to be able to 
read that file.

I'd appreciate any information you can provide.

Thanks.

- Dale

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Dale & Lora Marshall                    Internet Marketing Services
http://www.SpottedDragon.com/           http://www.internet-ms.com
marshall at cliffhanger.com                dalem at internet-ms.com
                                        loram at internet-ms.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


From s_angelov at filibeto.org  Sat Mar  7 21:11:32 2009
From: s_angelov at filibeto.org (Stoyan Angelov)
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 22:11:32 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] decoding unicode error
Message-ID: <49B2D4F4.4000201@filibeto.org>

hi all,


recently i migrated my mailman lists to a new machine and at the same 
time i upgraded to the latest version available at that time - 2.1.12rc2 
(from 2.1.1).
with the new version i am getting lots of error messages in the error 
log and lots of shunted messages, additionally digest are not being send:

Feb 23 13:51:15 2009 (13445) Uncaught runner exception: decoding Unicode 
is not supported
Feb 23 13:51:15 2009 (13445) Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop
     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in 
_dispose
     mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in 
ArchiveMail
     h.processUnixMailbox(f)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 578, in 
processUnixMailbox
     a = self._makeArticle(m, self.sequence)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 681, in 
_makeArticle
     mlist=self.maillist)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 305, in 
__init__
     charset = message.get_content_charset(cset_out)
   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/email/Message.py", line 800, in 
get_content_charset
     charset = unicode(charset, 'us-ascii').encode('us-ascii')
TypeError: decoding Unicode is not supported

Feb 23 13:51:15 2009 (13445) SHUNTING: 
1235389873.7168031+42c59b683b80525145619a256cf0bc745edd3aa7
Feb 23 14:00:29 2009 (13448) send_digests() failed: decoding Unicode is 
not supported

i found that the above problem was fixed in the final 2.1.12 version 
(https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/328353) so i upgraded my 
mailman installation to 2.1.12.

after the upgrade i ran the senddigests script manually but i still get 
the following error:

$ /usr/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests
List: sgd-users: problem processing 
/usr/local/mailman/lists/xxx-users/digest.mbox:
decoding Unicode is not supported
List: sunray-users: problem processing 
/usr/local/mailman/lists/yyy-users/digest.mbox:
decoding Unicode is not supported

i am using opensolaris snv_10 (x64) and python 2.4.4.

any help will be greatly appreciated!


greetings,

Stoyan Angelov








From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  9 17:01:45 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:01:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] decoding unicode error
In-Reply-To: <49B2D4F4.4000201@filibeto.org>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903090901450437cc5693a2@msapiro>

Stoyan Angelov wrote:
>
>recently i migrated my mailman lists to a new machine and at the same 
>time i upgraded to the latest version available at that time - 2.1.12rc2 
>(from 2.1.1).

Note: the OP also reported this problem in comments to
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/328353> and it is being
worked there.


>with the new version i am getting lots of error messages in the error 
>log and lots of shunted messages, additionally digest are not being send:
>
>Feb 23 13:51:15 2009 (13445) Uncaught runner exception: decoding Unicode 
>is not supported
>Feb 23 13:51:15 2009 (13445) Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop
>     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
>     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in 
>_dispose
>     mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in 
>ArchiveMail
>     h.processUnixMailbox(f)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 578, in 
>processUnixMailbox
>     a = self._makeArticle(m, self.sequence)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 681, in 
>_makeArticle
>     mlist=self.maillist)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 305, in 
>__init__
>     charset = message.get_content_charset(cset_out)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/email/Message.py", line 800, in 
>get_content_charset
>     charset = unicode(charset, 'us-ascii').encode('us-ascii')
>TypeError: decoding Unicode is not supported
>
>Feb 23 13:51:15 2009 (13445) SHUNTING: 
>1235389873.7168031+42c59b683b80525145619a256cf0bc745edd3aa7
>Feb 23 14:00:29 2009 (13448) send_digests() failed: decoding Unicode is 
>not supported


The shunted messages are for the archive. They are apparently delivered
OK to the non-digest list members. Once the underlying issue is
resolved, they can be unshunted and they will be archived.


>i found that the above problem was fixed in the final 2.1.12 version 
>(https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/328353) so i upgraded my 
>mailman installation to 2.1.12.


Actually, the fix in 2.1.12 was for a somewhat different manifestation
of this issue.


>after the upgrade i ran the senddigests script manually but i still get 
>the following error:
>
>$ /usr/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests
>List: sgd-users: problem processing 
>/usr/local/mailman/lists/xxx-users/digest.mbox:
>decoding Unicode is not supported
>List: sunray-users: problem processing 
>/usr/local/mailman/lists/yyy-users/digest.mbox:
>decoding Unicode is not supported
>
>i am using opensolaris snv_10 (x64) and python 2.4.4.


See the bug report for more information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  9 17:13:23 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:13:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about mailing lists and domain names
In-Reply-To: <49B3E451.2030306@cliffhanger.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009030909132308758361b202@msapiro>

Dale & Lora Marshall wrote:
>
>I have a new Mailman installation and it seems to be working fine if I 
>send email to "list at www.domain.com" but not if I send email to 
>"list at domain.com".  I am using Sendmail on Fedora 10 (and name-based 
>virtual hosts under Apache).  If I send to the domain without the "www" 
>nothing shows up in maillog but if I send to "www" then everything shows 
>up.


This is apparently a DNS issue. What are the MX and A records for the
two domains?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jbernier at risd.edu  Tue Mar 10 17:57:36 2009
From: jbernier at risd.edu (Jeff Bernier)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:57:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shunt Queue and Mailman logging
Message-ID: <s9b663d3.089@risd.edu>

Hello,
 
I have a couple of newbie questions...
 
I 've noticed several files in my shunt folder. when I run show_qfiles, I see that they are messages to one of my lists. I have contacted the list owner/moderator, and this person tells me messages to the list are going out just fine... although I do not see any recent messages in the list archive.
 
A quick search tells me to look at my Mailman log to see why these messages were put in the Shunt Queue. I cannot find my Mailman log. There does not appear to be any such file.
 
My questions are:
 
How can I get at my log file, or setup logging for Mailman?
Are these messages being put into shunt possibly because of a file permissions problem?
What should I do with the files in shunt?
 
Running Mailman 2.1.9 on OSX 10.5.4
 
Any and all help is appreciated.
-Jeff
 
 
"It does not require many words to speak the truth." - Chief Joseph, Great Nez Perce Indian Chief 

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 10 18:08:40 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:08:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shunt Queue and Mailman logging
In-Reply-To: <s9b663d3.089@risd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC18702009031010084004530a4c482d@msapiro>

Jeff Bernier wrote:
> 
>I 've noticed several files in my shunt folder. when I run show_qfiles, I see that they are messages to one of my lists. I have contacted the list owner/moderator, and this person tells me messages to the list are going out just fine... although I do not see any recent messages in the list archive.



So the messages were probably shunted during archiving. If you examine
the queue entries with bin/dumpdb instead of bin/show_qfiles, you will
see the metadata as the second object and the 'whichq' attribute will
tell you which queue and hence which Runner shunted the message.


>A quick search tells me to look at my Mailman log to see why these messages were put in the Shunt Queue. I cannot find my Mailman log. There does not appear to be any such file.


The same directory that contains bin/* and qfiles/* probably contains
logs/*. Look there for the 'error' log. If it isn't there, it might be
in /var/log/mailman/.


>My questions are:
> 
>How can I get at my log file, or setup logging for Mailman?


See above.


>Are these messages being put into shunt possibly because of a file permissions problem?


Possibly. You need to see the errors.


>What should I do with the files in shunt?


After fixing the underlying problem, run bin/unshunt.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jbernier at risd.edu  Tue Mar 10 19:11:21 2009
From: jbernier at risd.edu (Jeff Bernier)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:11:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shunt Queue and Mailman logging
Message-ID: <s9b67512.006@risd.edu>

Thank you Mark for your help.
 
I found my Mailman logs, and discovered that in fact the problem was due to permissions. A few of the files in shunt were messages to a list that no longer exists. I deleted these out manually, corrected the file permissions, then ran unshunt. The archive now shows the messages I mentioned in my original message below.
 
I did however, notice that after I change permissions (I'm doing this from a Windows SCP tool), my changes don't appear to "stick". I'm logging in as root.
 
Should I be changing permissions another way?
What should be the file and directory permissions in the Archives structure?

-Jeff
 

>>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 3/10/2009 1:08 PM >>>
Jeff Bernier wrote:
> 
>I 've noticed several files in my shunt folder. when I run show_qfiles, I see that they are messages to one of my lists. I have contacted the list owner/moderator, and this person tells me messages to the list are going out just fine... although I do not see any recent messages in the list archive.



So the messages were probably shunted during archiving. If you examine
the queue entries with bin/dumpdb instead of bin/show_qfiles, you will
see the metadata as the second object and the 'whichq' attribute will
tell you which queue and hence which Runner shunted the message.


>A quick search tells me to look at my Mailman log to see why these messages were put in the Shunt Queue. I cannot find my Mailman log. There does not appear to be any such file.


The same directory that contains bin/* and qfiles/* probably contains
logs/*. Look there for the 'error' log. If it isn't there, it might be
in /var/log/mailman/.


>My questions are:
> 
>How can I get at my log file, or setup logging for Mailman?


See above.


>Are these messages being put into shunt possibly because of a file permissions problem?


Possibly. You need to see the errors.


>What should I do with the files in shunt?


After fixing the underlying problem, run bin/unshunt.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 10 19:48:14 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:48:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shunt Queue and Mailman logging
In-Reply-To: <s9b67512.005@risd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903101148140984bdcf71a6@msapiro>

Jeff Bernier wrote:
> 
>I did however, notice that after I change permissions (I'm doing this from a Windows SCP tool), my changes don't appear to "stick". I'm logging in as root.
> 
>Should I be changing permissions another way?
>What should be the file and directory permissions in the Archives structure?

The archives/private and archives/public directories should be either

drwxrws--x 16 root mailman 4096 Jan 18 08:27 private
drwxrwsr-x  2 root mailman 4096 Dec  3 13:08 public

or

drwxrws--- 16 xxxx mailman 4096 Jan 18 08:27 private
drwxrwsr-x  2 root mailman 4096 Dec  3 13:08 public

Where xxxx is the web server user. I.e. archives/private must be
searchable by the web server for public archives to be accessible.
Other than xxx in case 2 above, owner doesn't matter, but group should
be Mailman's group.

The contents of archives/public are all symlinks.

within archives/private, everything should be Mailman's group, all
directories should be 'drwxrwsr-x' and all files should be
'-rw-rw-r--' with the exception that pipermail.pck, database and
database/* do not have 'other' permissions.

As far as permissions not sticking, there are some things about this
with Mac OS X in the archives of this list. See for example
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-July/037903.html>
and
<http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org++inurl%3Amailman-users+%22permission+denied%22+mac+os>,
although that may not be relevant for Mac OS X 10.5.4 as it is mostly
about older versions.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From alex at zodiac.dnsalias.org  Wed Mar 11 09:36:07 2009
From: alex at zodiac.dnsalias.org (Alexander Gran)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:36:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman digest archiving and lurker
Message-ID: <200903110936.07318.alex@zodiac.dnsalias.org>

Hi,

I'm using lurker to make the web archive for a mailman mailing list.
However mailman now uses wrong links in plain-text-digest for attachments,
e.g.:
https://hostname/lurker/list/news.html/attachments/20090304/be6930bd/attachment.png 

That results in a 404, as lurker has a different mean of providing the 
attachments. Any idea how to still use the mailman archiver for that.

regards
Alex

-- 
Dipl.-Inform. Alexander Gran 
Ludwigsallee 101  52062 Aachen  Germany
M: +49(0)163/5598933  Encrypted Mails welcome.
Steuernummer 201/5141/5848 Ust-IdNr.: DE259069010
PGP-Key at http://www.grans.eu/misc/pgpkey.asc | Key-ID: 0x6D7DD291



From Andre.Begoc at ensieta.fr  Tue Mar 10 13:19:31 2009
From: Andre.Begoc at ensieta.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_BEGOC?=)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:19:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aliases-revaliases mailman Postfix
Message-ID: <OFFBC28DC4.B576AA3B-ONC1257575.003818F5-C1257575.0043B48F@ensieta.loc>

Hi,
I'm using aliases and reverse aliases (revaliases) with postfix & mailman, 
ex :
In /etc/postfix/aliases, i have :
Firstname.Lastname:lastnafi     (lastnafi is the classic unix login)

In /etc/postfix/revaliases, i have :
lastnafi Firstname.Lastname

aliases.db is created with : postalias aliases
revaliases.db is created with : postmap revaliases

My students subscribe at mailman list with their login (ie : 
lastnafi at domain.com). When they send a message to list, they are : "not 
subscribed" , because they are subscribed with : 
Firstname.Lastname at domain.com

How can i force mailman to use, independently : lastnafi at domain.com and/or 
: Firstname.Lastname at domain.com
Thank you

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 11 16:05:41 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 08:05:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman digest archiving and lurker
In-Reply-To: <200903110936.07318.alex@zodiac.dnsalias.org>
Message-ID: <PC187020090311080541010936153716@msapiro>

Alexander Gran wrote:
>
>I'm using lurker to make the web archive for a mailman mailing list.
>However mailman now uses wrong links in plain-text-digest for attachments,
>e.g.:
>https://hostname/lurker/list/news.html/attachments/20090304/be6930bd/attachment.png 
>
>That results in a 404, as lurker has a different mean of providing the 
>attachments. Any idea how to still use the mailman archiver for that.


You could put a redirect in your web server to redirect
https://hostname/lurker/list/news.html/attachments/ to
https://hostname/pipermail/list/attachments/ or whatever the correct
URL is.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Wed Mar 11 16:22:13 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:22:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aliases-revaliases mailman Postfix
In-Reply-To: <OFFBC28DC4.B576AA3B-ONC1257575.003818F5-C1257575.0043B48F@ensieta.loc>
References: <OFFBC28DC4.B576AA3B-ONC1257575.003818F5-C1257575.0043B48F@ensieta.loc>
Message-ID: <49B7D725.1000706@riverviewtech.net>

On 03/10/09 07:19, Andr? BEGOC wrote:
> My students subscribe at mailman list with their login (ie: 
> lastnafi at domain.com). When they send a message to list, they are: 
> "not subscribed", because they are subscribed with 
> Firstname.Lastname at domain.com

Hum...

> How can i force mailman to use, independently lastnafi at domain.com 
> and/or Firstname.Lastname at domain.com

I don't believe this is a Mailman issue, rather an MTA (Postfix) issue. 
  I.e. Postfix is not translating between username email addresses and 
pretty (for humans) email addresses before delivery to Mailman.

If you are wanting to know how to have subscribers be subscribed with 
two addresses, simply subscribe both addresses and set one to not 
receive delivery.  This way the subscribers receive email where you / 
they want to while still being subscribed members with the other 
address, thus allowing them to post.



Grant. . . .

From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Wed Mar 11 16:33:04 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:33:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman digest archiving and lurker
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090311080541010936153716@msapiro>
References: <PC187020090311080541010936153716@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49B7D9B0.7050300@riverviewtech.net>

On 03/11/09 10:05, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> You could put a redirect in your web server to redirect 
> https://hostname/lurker/list/news.html/attachments/ to 
> https://hostname/pipermail/list/attachments/ or whatever the correct 
> URL is.

This is a viable work around.

But, is there a way to correct the actual problem of the wrong URL 
rather than having to work around the problem?



Grant. . . .

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 11 16:36:03 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 08:36:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aliases-revaliases mailman Postfix
In-Reply-To: <OFFBC28DC4.B576AA3B-ONC1257575.003818F5-C1257575.0043B48F@ensieta.loc>
Message-ID: <PC187020090311083603062570b993f4@msapiro>

Andr? BEGOC wrote:
>
>My students subscribe at mailman list with their login (ie : 
>lastnafi at domain.com). When they send a message to list, they are : "not 
>subscribed" , because they are subscribed with : 
>Firstname.Lastname at domain.com


Presumably, they are subscribing via email and postfix is rewriting the
address before delivering the mail to Mailman. If the student
subscribes via the web, I don't think the rewrite will occur, but that
still doesn't address the problem of accepting BOTH addresses.


>How can i force mailman to use, independently : lastnafi at domain.com and/or 
>: Firstname.Lastname at domain.com


You could modify Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py to consult your postfix
maps for the alternate address before deciding that a post is from a
non-member.

Alternatively, you could run some external process to get a membership
list, look up the alternate addresses and add those to
accept_these_nonmembers or as Grant suggests, subscribe them with mail
delivery disabled. bin/list_members, bin/add_members, and the scripts
at <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/non_members> and
<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/set_nomail.py> may help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 11 16:54:04 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 08:54:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman digest archiving and lurker
In-Reply-To: <49B7D9B0.7050300@riverviewtech.net>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903110854040421c05cfa69@msapiro>

Grant Taylor wrote:
>
>But, is there a way to correct the actual problem of the wrong URL 
>rather than having to work around the problem?


Scrubber builds the URL from PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL which is also used to
build URLs pointing to the actual archive, so one or the other will be
wrong.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 12 01:43:52 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:43:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman digest archiving and lurker
In-Reply-To: <200903111658.03217.alex@zodiac.dnsalias.org>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903111743520234955dc09e@msapiro>

Alexander Gran wrote:

>
>Am Mittwoch 11 M?rz 2009 16:05:41 schrieb Mark Sapiro:
>> Alexander Gran wrote:
>> >That results in a 404, as lurker has a different mean of providing the
>> >attachments. Any idea how to still use the mailman archiver for that.
>>
>> You could put a redirect in your web server to redirect
>> https://hostname/lurker/list/news.html/attachments/ to
>> https://hostname/pipermail/list/attachments/ or whatever the correct
>
>The thing is, that there are no attachments in the mailman folder any more:
>mail:/var/lib/mailman/archives/news/attachments# l 2009*
>ls: 2009*: No such file or directory
>Therefore a redirect won't work.


What if anything have you set in mm_cfg.py for PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR
and PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR. That's where Scrubber will try to store
the attachments. It either succeeds or it encounters an error which
would be reported in Mailman's error log and would probably prevent
the digest from being sent so presumably, Scrubber is succeeding.

Once you know where the attachments are, you can presumably put
whatever is necessary in the web server to get to them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 12 16:38:27 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:38:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman digest archiving and lurker
In-Reply-To: <200903111658.03217.alex@zodiac.dnsalias.org>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903120838270234c953cb05@msapiro>

Alexander Gran wrote:
>
>The thing is, that there are no attachments in the mailman folder any more:
>mail:/var/lib/mailman/archives/news/attachments# l 2009*
>ls: 2009*: No such file or directory
>Therefore a redirect won't work.


Try /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/news/attachments

or whatever the list name (news?) is.

Also /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/news/, but that should just be a
symlink to /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/news/.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From alex at zodiac.dnsalias.org  Wed Mar 11 16:58:03 2009
From: alex at zodiac.dnsalias.org (Alexander Gran)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:58:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman digest archiving and lurker
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090311080541010936153716@msapiro>
References: <PC187020090311080541010936153716@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200903111658.03217.alex@zodiac.dnsalias.org>


Am Mittwoch 11 M?rz 2009 16:05:41 schrieb Mark Sapiro:
> Alexander Gran wrote:
> >That results in a 404, as lurker has a different mean of providing the
> >attachments. Any idea how to still use the mailman archiver for that.
>
> You could put a redirect in your web server to redirect
> https://hostname/lurker/list/news.html/attachments/ to
> https://hostname/pipermail/list/attachments/ or whatever the correct

The thing is, that there are no attachments in the mailman folder any more:
mail:/var/lib/mailman/archives/news/attachments# l 2009*
ls: 2009*: No such file or directory
Therefore a redirect won't work.

regards
Alex
-- 
Dipl.-Inform. Alexander Gran 
Ludwigsallee 101  52062 Aachen  Germany
M: +49(0)163/5598933  Encrypted Mails welcome.
Steuernummer 201/5141/5848 Ust-IdNr.: DE259069010
PGP-Key at http://www.grans.eu/misc/pgpkey.asc | Key-ID: 0x6D7DD291

From alex at zodiac.dnsalias.org  Thu Mar 12 09:22:13 2009
From: alex at zodiac.dnsalias.org (Alexander Gran)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:22:13 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman digest archiving and lurker
Message-ID: <200903120922.13747.alex@zodiac.dnsalias.org>

Am Donnerstag 12 M?rz 2009 01:43:52 schrieb Mark Sapiro:
> What if anything have you set in mm_cfg.py for PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR
> and PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR. That's where Scrubber will try to store
> the attachments. It either succeeds or it encounters an error which
> would be reported in Mailman's error log and would probably prevent
> the digest from being sent so presumably, Scrubber is succeeding.

These are not set:
mail:/etc/mailman# /usr/sbin/config_list -o - news | grep FILE_DIR
mail:/etc/mailman#

No errors in mailman log.

regards
Alex

-- 
Dipl.-Inform. Alexander Gran 
Ludwigsallee 101  52062 Aachen  Germany
M: +49(0)163/5598933  Encrypted Mails welcome.
Steuernummer 201/5141/5848 Ust-IdNr.: DE259069010
PGP-Key at http://www.grans.eu/misc/pgpkey.asc | Key-ID: 0x6D7DD291


From dunkel at calamus.net  Thu Mar 12 14:20:13 2009
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:20:13 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listinfo shows wrong lists
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903111743520234955dc09e@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200903111743520234955dc09e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49B90C0D.5030802@calamus.net>

Hi there.

I wonder if I ran into a bug with listinfo. I use several Mailman lists 
in several domains which really work fine so far.

But when you take a look at this listinfo page:
	http://calamus.net/mailman/listinfo

you will see that it also lists all mailing lists which belong to 
icalamus.net by mistake.

I wonder if listinfo does a simple strpos() or stuff (didn't find or 
check the relevant sources) which would explain why "icalamus.net" is 
also shown when "calamus.net" should be listed.

Should I file a bug?

Best regards,
Ulf Dunkel

From alex at zodiac.dnsalias.org  Thu Mar 12 17:27:23 2009
From: alex at zodiac.dnsalias.org (Alexander Gran)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:27:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman digest archiving and lurker
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903120838270234c953cb05@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200903120838270234c953cb05@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200903121727.23455.alex@zodiac.dnsalias.org>

Am Donnerstag 12 M?rz 2009 16:38:27 schrieb Mark Sapiro:
> Try /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/news/attachments



Ok, that works with a symlink. It's a kludge, but thanks :)



regards
Alex



-- 
Dipl.-Inform. Alexander Gran 
Ludwigsallee 101  52062 Aachen  Germany
M: +49(0)163/5598933  Encrypted Mails welcome.
Steuernummer 201/5141/5848 Ust-IdNr.: DE259069010
PGP-Key at http://www.grans.eu/misc/pgpkey.asc | Key-ID: 0x6D7DD291

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 12 18:02:40 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 10:02:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listinfo shows wrong lists
In-Reply-To: <49B90C0D.5030802@calamus.net>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903121002400640104cf168@msapiro>

Ulf Dunkel wrote:
>
>I wonder if I ran into a bug with listinfo. I use several Mailman lists 
>in several domains which really work fine so far.
>
>But when you take a look at this listinfo page:
>	http://calamus.net/mailman/listinfo
>
>you will see that it also lists all mailing lists which belong to 
>icalamus.net by mistake.
>
>I wonder if listinfo does a simple strpos() or stuff (didn't find or 
>check the relevant sources) which would explain why "icalamus.net" is 
>also shown when "calamus.net" should be listed.


Well, it's Python, not PHP, but essentially, yes. It checks if the
current host name is a substring of the web_page_url attribute of a
list to decide whether to show that list.


>Should I file a bug?


Yes. <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 13 00:57:39 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:57:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Config problems
In-Reply-To: <1443f7ff0903110835y516aae49w6764b49c169076c4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020090312165739004636bc0e95@msapiro>

>First off I want to say thanks for all your help. Mark has the right idea,
>we have the mailman installation up and running and accessible from the web
>server.  We also have email going from mailman through the email server
>succesfully.  The problem arises when email (posts, etc) comes back, which
>we want to go through the email server to reduce load on the web server, but
>needs to go to mailman's lists, which are only known to the web server since
>that's where the mailman installation exists. Would the fetchmail or using a
>relay help us in this case, because what is happening is that mail is coming
>into the mail server and bouncing back because postfix is trying to send the
>email to the mailman processing program, which does not exist on the email
>server?  We could setup an MTA on the web server, but we were hoping to
>avoid that in order to have a complete separation of the two servers.  The
>web server only has a simple sendmail install for sending outgoing mail for
>things like cron jobs.


There are various ways to do this. If I were doing it, I would
configure the sendmail on the mailman box to listen on some port other
than 25, say xxxx.

Then you need to put the Mailman aliases in /etc/aliases on the Mailman
box. Let's call this mm.example.com.

On the main mail server that receives mail for say LIST at example.com, I
think all you need to do is put entries like

LIST at example.com  smtp:[mm.example.com]:xxxx
LIST-bounces at example.com  smtp:[mm.example.com]:xxxx
etc.

for each list in postfix's transport table (/etc/postfix/transport) and
run postmap to update it, but I've never actually done this, so I'm
not certain. You may also need a

transport_maps =

in main.cf pointing to the table.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dunkel at calamus.net  Fri Mar 13 09:50:01 2009
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 09:50:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listinfo shows wrong lists
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903121002400640104cf168@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200903121002400640104cf168@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49BA1E39.9040005@calamus.net>

> Well, it's Python, not PHP, but essentially, yes. It checks if the
> current host name is a substring of the web_page_url attribute of a
> list to decide whether to show that list.
> 
>> Should I file a bug?
> 
> Yes. <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman>

Done: Bug #342162 reported by Ulf Dunkel.

From hamaryns at googlemail.com  Thu Mar 12 22:16:39 2009
From: hamaryns at googlemail.com (Hendrik Maryns)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:16:39 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change the text at the bottom of sent mails
Message-ID: <49B97BB7.7020807@googlemail.com>

Hi all,

I searched the net, but didn?t find an answer to this question. Btw, the
FAQ seems to be messed up.

My question is the following: under the mails I get from my list, I see
the following text:

Mitarbeiter mailing list
Mitarbeiter at weltladen-tuebingen.de
http://mailman.biohostnet.de/mailman/listinfo/mitarbeiter

The links are fine, but the first line bothers me: nowhere in the admin
area did I find a place to change this, and in German, it is just plain
wrong.  Did I overlook something?

Cheers, H.
-- 
Opgepast | Achtung | Attention
adressen gewijzigd!
Adressen ge?ndert!
adresses changed!

Hendrik Maryns
Biesingerstra?e 5
D-72070 T?bingen
+491753353494
hamaryns at googlemail.com
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/


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From ted at frohling.org  Fri Mar 13 14:53:52 2009
From: ted at frohling.org (Ted Frohling)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 06:53:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] uncaught bounce notification
Message-ID: <49BA6570.9030305@frohling.org>

I'm getting an uncaught bounce notification from a particular user on
one of my mailing lists.  In a message in the archives, one respondent
said they could look at the message, but would need the original
email.  I'm using mailman 2.1.9 and postfix as the mta.  I can't figure
out where I would find the original message.  I've looked in the
usual places and neither mailman nor postfix is keeping the original
message around.  At least that I have found.  So where to look, or
what to turn on so the message is saved for the future so I have a
chance to determine why the message is not being understood by the
mailman bounce processor.

thanks,

ted

-- 
     Ted Frohling (TF30-ARIN)                                520.749.1379
     www.frohling.org                             ted-at-frohling-dot-org
     Change the world one loan at a time - visit Kiva.org to find out how

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 13 16:04:14 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:04:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change the text at the bottom of sent
	mails
In-Reply-To: <49B97BB7.7020807@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903130804130984286bbd65@msapiro>

Hendrik Maryns wrote:
>
>Btw, the
>FAQ seems to be messed up.


Please be more specific about what is wrong with the FAQ so we can fix
it.


>My question is the following: under the mails I get from my list, I see
>the following text:
>
>Mitarbeiter mailing list
>Mitarbeiter at weltladen-tuebingen.de
>http://mailman.biohostnet.de/mailman/listinfo/mitarbeiter
>
>The links are fine, but the first line bothers me: nowhere in the admin
>area did I find a place to change this, and in German, it is just plain
>wrong.  Did I overlook something?


These are on the web admin interface. Non-digest options
(Non-Digest-Optionen) -> msg_footer for individual messages and Digest
options (Optionen f?r Nachrichtensammlungen) -> digest_footer for
digests.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 13 16:31:30 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:31:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] uncaught bounce notification
In-Reply-To: <49BA6570.9030305@frohling.org>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903130831300484d564efc2@msapiro>

Ted Frohling wrote:

>I'm getting an uncaught bounce notification from a particular user on
>one of my mailing lists.  In a message in the archives, one respondent
>said they could look at the message, but would need the original
>email.  I'm using mailman 2.1.9 and postfix as the mta.  I can't figure
>out where I would find the original message.


The original "uncaught bounce notification" email that you received,
not the original email that bounced.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From b19141 at anl.gov  Fri Mar 13 16:33:57 2009
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 10:33:57 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] uncaught bounce notification
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Ted Frohling <ted@frohling.org>'
	dated: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 06:53:52 -0700
Message-ID: <20090313153357.65BFC17447@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

Ted Frohling <ted at frohling.org> wrote:

>I'm getting an uncaught bounce notification from a particular user on
>one of my mailing lists.  In a message in the archives, one respondent
>said they could look at the message, but would need the original
>email.  I'm using mailman 2.1.9 and postfix as the mta.  I can't figure
>out where I would find the original message.  I've looked in the
>usual places and neither mailman nor postfix is keeping the original
>message around.  At least that I have found.  So where to look, or
>what to turn on so the message is saved for the future so I have a
>chance to determine why the message is not being understood by the
>mailman bounce processor.

You would need to look at the archives mbox file on the Mailman machine.
On my Ubuntu machine the archives are in

     /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox

That mbox file has the mail messages with all of the RFC 5322 mail
headers.  Viewing the archives via the web interface will not show
all of the mail headers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From lida_mail at 163.com  Sat Mar 14 09:25:22 2009
From: lida_mail at 163.com (Daniel.Li)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:25:22 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't show received mail on Mailman Archives
Message-ID: <1237019122.8508.15.camel@daniel-laptop>

Dear List,

Now I have change my OS to ubuntu 8.04.2, originally Fedora 5.
I have met a problem. I did install the mailman "successfully".

Now, I can subscribe the maillist, mailman mailed me passcode, confirm
mails. And I can send e-mail to maillist address.

It seems OK, but I found that I never receive the mail from mailman and
can't find mails I have sent before, which is too say that mailman
archives is empty.

I checked my mail log, I found my server did received my mail. But I
didn't know where to check now.

Any hint is well appreciated, thanks.

-- 
Daniel.Li <lida_mail at 163.com>
PALFocus (http://palfocus.oicp.net)



From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 14 15:53:30 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 07:53:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't show received mail on Mailman Archives
In-Reply-To: <1237019122.8508.15.camel@daniel-laptop>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903140753300484b173bc02@msapiro>

Daniel.Li wrote:
>
>Now, I can subscribe the maillist, mailman mailed me passcode, confirm
>mails. And I can send e-mail to maillist address.
>
>It seems OK, but I found that I never receive the mail from mailman and
>can't find mails I have sent before, which is too say that mailman
>archives is empty.
>
>I checked my mail log, I found my server did received my mail. But I
>didn't know where to check now.


What does the mail log say was done with the mail? Was it piped to
Mailman?

Also see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 15 00:57:00 2009
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 23:57:00 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Broken Pipe
Message-ID: <COL105-W79D59C3DD6E680BBB2742DFB9D0@phx.gbl>


hi,

 

I've created a simple shell script to count members in my 3 lists :

 

******

./list_members list1 | wc -l
./list_members list2 | wc -l
./list_members list3 | wc -l

******

and I keep getting this error:

 

*****

wc: invalid option -- 
Try `wc --help' for more information.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./list_members", line 286, in ?
    main()
  File "./list_members", line 264, in main
    print >> fp, formataddr((safe(name), addr))
IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe
****

 

when copying and pasting the 3 lines in my SSH window they work fine .. but when running the script I get these errors!

 

it was working before but recently I formatted the drive and reinstalled the system: Centos5 ..

 

please help

 

 

 

_________________________________________________________________
News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now!
http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 15 01:10:53 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:10:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Broken Pipe
In-Reply-To: <COL105-W79D59C3DD6E680BBB2742DFB9D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC18702009031417105306870c3979e4@msapiro>

Khalil Abbas wrote:
>
>I've created a simple shell script to count members in my 3 lists :
>
> 
>
>******
>
>./list_members list1 | wc -l
>./list_members list2 | wc -l
>./list_members list3 | wc -l
>
>******
>
>and I keep getting this error:
>
> 
>
>*****
>
>wc: invalid option -- 
>Try `wc --help' for more information.
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "./list_members", line 286, in ?
>    main()
>  File "./list_members", line 264, in main
>    print >> fp, formataddr((safe(name), addr))
>IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe
>****


This is a Unix question, not a Mailman question, but the answer is
remove the trailing <CR>s from the lines of your script. They are
confusing the shell into thinking there is another, empty argument at
the end of the line. I.e.

ex /path/to/script
set ff=unix
w
q


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From james at thereidsonline.com  Sun Mar 15 07:00:08 2009
From: james at thereidsonline.com (James Reid)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 17:00:08 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why does this happen???
Message-ID: <000f01c9a533$4daa2080$e8fe6180$@com>

Hi Everyone,

 

Can someone please explain why I have a small number of users who
occasionally send message to mylist-bounces at domain.com instead of to the
correct address mylist at domain.com ?

 

I suspect that it is to do with the email client that they are using and
whether they are replying or reply-to-all, but don't see it happening often
enough to be able to figure it out (I'd like to add something to the sign-on
message for the group to give people more info on how to avoid this
problem).

 

Thanks!

 

James.


From terri at zone12.com  Sun Mar 15 07:11:04 2009
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 02:11:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why does this happen???
In-Reply-To: <000f01c9a533$4daa2080$e8fe6180$@com>
References: <000f01c9a533$4daa2080$e8fe6180$@com>
Message-ID: <49BC9BF8.90708@zone12.com>

James Reid wrote:
> Can someone please explain why I have a small number of users who
> occasionally send message to mylist-bounces at domain.com instead of to the
> correct address mylist at domain.com ?
> 
> I suspect that it is to do with the email client that they are using and
> whether they are replying or reply-to-all, but don't see it happening often
> enough to be able to figure it out (I'd like to add something to the sign-on
> message for the group to give people more info on how to avoid this
> problem).


I'm pretty sure this is an Outlook behaviour, probably related to this:

http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/From+field+displayed+by+Microsoft+Outlook

There may be other clients that do it too, but I'm pretty sure that was 
the culprit the last time this happened with one of my lists.

  Terri

From jules at cafecancun.com  Fri Mar 13 18:58:27 2009
From: jules at cafecancun.com (Jules Siegel)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:58:27 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing forwarder and restarting list
Message-ID: <49BA9EC3.2090909@cafecancun.com>

Borneo-l at ikanlundu.com, a mailman list, quit sending out or archiving 
messages. The hosting service sysop reinstalled it and got this message:
> Creating an email list creates multiple email forwarders and one is 
> being used already.
>
> A forwarder already exists for borneo-l-admin at ikanlundu.com.
>
> You must delete this forwarder before creating the list
As far as I know, there are no forwarders, but maybe I am not looking in 
the right places. Despite this, the list began working again. It has 
since stopped and been restarted a couple of times. It's now down again.

Any ideas about fixing this will be appreciated.

-- 
JULES SIEGEL Apdo. 1764, 77501-Cancun, Q. Roo, Mexico
http://www.cafecancun.com/bookarts

Newsroom-l, news and issues for journalists
http://www.newsroom-l.net/


From linuxadmins at pugmarks.com  Sun Mar 15 03:45:38 2009
From: linuxadmins at pugmarks.com (PM Linux Admins)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 08:15:38 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need Mailman List Analysis
Message-ID: <42b801c9a518$21de6170$4b0a0a0a@pugseat37>

Hello All,

Is there any thing like  Mailman List Analysis, that can give delivery reports on the basis of each mailing list for example number of successful / failure / deferred / bounced / queued deliveries per mailing list.

I googled about this and found following, but my requirement is a bit wider

http://mailman.studentaffairs.duke.edu/analysis/


With Best Regards,
Ajay Kajla

From rnickel at scea.com  Fri Mar 13 19:28:02 2009
From: rnickel at scea.com (Robert Nickel)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:28:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How-to suppress replies to mail sent to
	list-subscribe@...
Message-ID: <20090313182802.GK4183@coinelement.989studios.com>

I've got a mailman server running that I want to allow self-service for
subscription requests but don't need to let them know that I received the
email to act on.  My users simply consider such mail to be noise.

I would like the work flow to be:

1) User sends email to list-subscribe address.
2) Normal admin mail is sent to list owner/moderator
3) User subscription is validated
4) User starts receiving list email

The way that it's currently happening is that in between 1 and 2, they get an
email request like the following:

    The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your
    original message.

    Results:
      Your subscription request has been forwarded to the list administrator


That's what I would like to stop.

I'm running 2.1.9.

Thanks,
--Robert

From b19141 at anl.gov  Sun Mar 15 14:55:52 2009
From: b19141 at anl.gov (b19141 at anl.gov)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 08:55:52 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why does this happen???
Message-ID: <20090315135552.81DD72AE44@atalanta.it.anl.gov>

"James Reid" <james at thereidsonline.com> wrote:
>Hi Everyone,

>Can someone please explain why I have a small number of users who
>occasionally send message to mylist-bounces at domain.com instead of to the
>correct address mylist at domain.com ?
>
>I suspect that it is to do with the email client that they are using
>and whether they are replying or reply-to-all, but don't see it
>happening often enough to be able to figure it out (I'd like to add
>something to the sign-on message for the group to give people more info
>on how to avoid this problem).

There is a problem with the BlackBerry software.  A "reply-all"
from a BlackBerry user will be sent to the list and the -bounces
address. This is one case of which I am aware.  I have seen this
occur (not from a BlackBerry "reply-all", I believe), but the
one sender whom I hace contacted has not responded to my e-mails.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 15 16:08:57 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 08:08:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing forwarder and restarting list
In-Reply-To: <49BA9EC3.2090909@cafecancun.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020090315080857004688c35ee7@msapiro>

Jules Siegel wrote:

>Borneo-l at ikanlundu.com, a mailman list, quit sending out or archiving 
>messages. The hosting service sysop reinstalled it and got this message:
>> Creating an email list creates multiple email forwarders and one is 
>> being used already.
>>
>> A forwarder already exists for borneo-l-admin at ikanlundu.com.
>>
>> You must delete this forwarder before creating the list
>As far as I know, there are no forwarders, but maybe I am not looking in 
>the right places. Despite this, the list began working again. It has 
>since stopped and been restarted a couple of times. It's now down again.


I think the "forwarder" language is a cPanel thing, but it may be Plesk
or some other control panel. GNU Mailman as we distribute it has no
such thing. See the FAQs at <http://wiki.list.org/x/sYA9> and
<http://wiki.list.org/x/tIA9> for more about cPanel and Plesk.

Also, you may find the general troubleshooting information at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9> to be helpful.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 15 16:31:54 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 08:31:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How-to suppress replies to mail sent
	tolist-subscribe@...
In-Reply-To: <20090313182802.GK4183@coinelement.989studios.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009031508315404538f08b87b@msapiro>

Robert Nickel wrote:

>I've got a mailman server running that I want to allow self-service for
>subscription requests but don't need to let them know that I received the
>email to act on.  My users simply consider such mail to be noise.
>
>I would like the work flow to be:
>
>1) User sends email to list-subscribe address.
>2) Normal admin mail is sent to list owner/moderator
>3) User subscription is validated
>4) User starts receiving list email
>
>The way that it's currently happening is that in between 1 and 2, they get an
>email request like the following:
>
>    The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your
>    original message.
>
>    Results:
>      Your subscription request has been forwarded to the list administrator


If you have the ability to modify the code, you can modify
Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py as follows. Almost at the end, you
will see

    except Errors.MMNeedApproval:
        res.results.append(_("""\
Your subscription request has been forwarded to the list administrator
at %(listowner)s for review."""))
    else:
        # Everything is a-ok

change this to

    except Errors.MMNeedApproval:
        res.respond = 0
    else:
        # Everything is a-ok

I.e., remove the res.results... and the next two lines and replace them
with the res.respond = 0 line. Maintain the indentation exactly as
shown and don't use tabs.

If you don't have access to make this change, then the only other
approach is to have the users send their subscribe requests directly
to the list-owner address and the owner can add them via admin mass
subscribe.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Mon Mar 16 00:45:03 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 23:45:03 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need Mailman List Analysis
In-Reply-To: <42b801c9a518$21de6170$4b0a0a0a@pugseat37>
References: <42b801c9a518$21de6170$4b0a0a0a@pugseat37>
Message-ID: <20090315234503.GI4537@amyl.org.uk>

On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 08:15:38AM +0530, PM Linux Admins wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> Is there any thing like  Mailman List Analysis, that can give delivery
> reports on the basis of each mailing list for example number of
> successful / failure / deferred / bounced / queued deliveries per
> mailing list.

Shouldn't be too difficult to pull from the logfiles. ISTR having once 
whipped up something dirty for giving me some log-stats. What you're
asking for is nothing some grep/awk can't handle. It should be quite
trivial thence to pipe out to email/a text-file/web-page (or even
gnuplot for graphs)

I'm lazy, and find MailListStat (on the archived mbox) does what I want.
Admitedly, I do have archiving set on all my lists.

From dunkel at calamus.net  Mon Mar 16 08:09:44 2009
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:09:44 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How-to suppress replies to mail
	sent	tolist-subscribe@...
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009031508315404538f08b87b@msapiro>
References: <PC18702009031508315404538f08b87b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49BDFB38.9010007@calamus.net>

Hi Robert and Mark.

Doesn't the "respond_to_post_requests" (to be found in the [General 
Options] page of the admin interface) do the trick?

---snip---
Send mail to poster when their posting is held for approval?
(Edit respond_to_post_requests)
(*) No  ( ) Yes
---snap---

Just my two cents,
Ulf Dunkel

From lida_mail at 163.com  Mon Mar 16 13:47:31 2009
From: lida_mail at 163.com (Daniel.Li)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:47:31 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't show received mail on Mailman Archives
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903140753300484b173bc02@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200903140753300484b173bc02@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1237207651.8038.39.camel@daniel-laptop>

On Sat, 2009-03-14 at 07:53 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: 
> Daniel.Li wrote:
> >
> >Now, I can subscribe the maillist, mailman mailed me passcode, confirm
> >mails. And I can send e-mail to maillist address.
> >
> >It seems OK, but I found that I never receive the mail from mailman and
> >can't find mails I have sent before, which is too say that mailman
> >archives is empty.
> >
> >I checked my mail log, I found my server did received my mail. But I
> >didn't know where to check now.
> 
> 
> What does the mail log say was done with the mail? 

I'm using Postfix Mail Server 2.5.1 now.
I use webmin to check mailman account, and found that all mails, I have
sent before, are in the mailbox, which was NOT piped to Mailman.

> Was it piped to
> Mailman?

Well, did u mean configurations in httpd.conf?

I have added this in /etc/apache2/httpd.conf 

> ScriptAlias /mailman/ /var/www/mailman/cgi-bin/
> <Directory /var/www/mailman/cgi-bin/>
>     AllowOverride None
>     Options ExecCGI
>     Order allow,deny
>     Allow from all
> </Directory>
> 
> 
> Alias /pipermail/ /var/www/mailman/archives/public/
> <Directory /var/www/mailman/archives/public>
>     Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
>     AllowOverride None
>     Order allow,deny
>     Allow from all
> </Directory>
> 
> # Uncomment the following line, replacing www.example.com with your
> server's
> # name, to redirect queries to /mailman to the listinfo page
> (recommended).




> 
> Also see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.
Thanks for this link, yeah, it must be something wrong here.

Step 1:
I have checked ~mailman/bin/check_perms, and found some permission
issue. So I use sudo to correct these problems, until I got 

> $ sudo bin/check_perms 
> No problems found

After this, I have found that
http://palfocus.oicp.net/pipermail/mailman/ is forbidden, 403 error.


Step 2:
$ ps auxww| grep mailmanctl |grep -v grep
<blank>
$ ps auxww | egrep 'p[y]thon'
<blank>

So I just run following commands to get qrunner running.
$ sudo bin/mailmanctl start
Starting Mailman's master qrunner.
daniel at palfocus:/var/www/mailman$ ps auxww | egrep 'p[y]thon'
mailman  20440  0.0  1.8  10180  4816 ?        Ss   20:23
0:00 /usr/bin/python bin/mailmanctl start
mailman  20441  0.2  2.5   9832  6516 ?        S    20:23
0:00 /usr/bin/python /var/www/mailman/bin/qrunner
--runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  20442  0.2  2.5   9864  6536 ?        S    20:23
0:00 /usr/bin/python /var/www/mailman/bin/qrunner
--runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  20443  0.2  2.5   9808  6500 ?        S    20:23
0:00 /usr/bin/python /var/www/mailman/bin/qrunner
--runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  20444  0.2  2.5   9820  6516 ?        S    20:23
0:00 /usr/bin/python /var/www/mailman/bin/qrunner
--runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  20445  0.2  2.5   9808  6552 ?        S    20:23
0:00 /usr/bin/python /var/www/mailman/bin/qrunner
--runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  20446  0.2  2.7   9864  6916 ?        S    20:23
0:00 /usr/bin/python /var/www/mailman/bin/qrunner
--runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  20447  0.2  2.6   9832  6720 ?        S    20:23
0:00 /usr/bin/python /var/www/mailman/bin/qrunner
--runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  20448  0.2  2.5   9836  6520 ?        S    20:23
0:00 /usr/bin/python /var/www/mailman/bin/qrunner
--runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s

Step 3: It seems correct
$ grep mailman /etc/aliases
## mailman mailing list
#mailman:              "|/var/www/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
#mailman-admin:        "|/var/www/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
#mailman-bounces:      "|/var/www/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
#mailman-confirm:      "|/var/www/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
#mailman-join:         "|/var/www/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
#mailman-leave:        "|/var/www/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
#mailman-owner:        "|/var/www/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
#mailman-request:      "|/var/www/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
#mailman-subscribe:    "|/var/www/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe
mailman"
#mailman-unsubscribe:  "|/var/www/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe
mailman"

Step 4: It seems OK.
$ ls -l ./locks
total 8
-rw-rw-r-- 2 mailman mailman 61 2009-03-18 02:23 master-qrunner
-rw-rw-r-- 2 mailman mailman 61 2009-03-18 02:23
master-qrunner.palfocus.oicp.net.20440


Step 5:
$ ps aux |grep 20440 |grep -v grep
mailman  20440  0.0  1.8  10180  4816 ?        Ss   20:23
0:00 /usr/bin/python bin/mailmanctl start


Well, I'm NOT expert on this. I think I can just find some easy
problems. So I put all steps that I have done here.
But After this, the problem still exists.

Please help me on this. Any hint or advice is mostly appreciated. So I
can just follow instructions to find out what's wrong with the server.


I use sendmail and Fedora 5 last time. But I have found that it is
different this time.


> 
-- 
Daniel.Li <lida_mail at 163.com>
PALFocus (http://palfocus.oicp.net)



From bcanty at apsa.org  Mon Mar 16 16:05:45 2009
From: bcanty at apsa.org (Brian Canty)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:05:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Poster not Receiving Postings
Message-ID: <6B3A7025196C1A49AABB0E6C80AD5AE2D25485@apsaserv.APSA.local>

Not sure if anyone has been experiencing the same problem.  I have a
poster who uses a gmail account to post and he is not getting a copy of
the posting?  Any suggestions in trying to resolve this would be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks.


Brian Canty
Manager Computer Information Services
American Psychoanalytic Association
212-752-0450 x17



From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Mar 16 16:06:47 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:06:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Poster not Receiving Postings
In-Reply-To: <6B3A7025196C1A49AABB0E6C80AD5AE2D25485@apsaserv.APSA.local>
References: <6B3A7025196C1A49AABB0E6C80AD5AE2D25485@apsaserv.APSA.local>
Message-ID: <49BE6B07.5040106@shub-internet.org>

Brian Canty wrote:

> Not sure if anyone has been experiencing the same problem.  I have a
> poster who uses a gmail account to post and he is not getting a copy of
> the posting?  Any suggestions in trying to resolve this would be greatly
> appreciated.

That's a known problem with gmail.  There's something about this in the FAQ 
Wiki, but I don't remember exactly where.

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From terri at zone12.com  Mon Mar 16 16:09:29 2009
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:09:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Poster not Receiving Postings
In-Reply-To: <49BE6B07.5040106@shub-internet.org>
References: <6B3A7025196C1A49AABB0E6C80AD5AE2D25485@apsaserv.APSA.local>
	<49BE6B07.5040106@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <49BE6BA9.8090504@zone12.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> Brian Canty wrote:
> 
>> Not sure if anyone has been experiencing the same problem.  I have a
>> poster who uses a gmail account to post and he is not getting a copy of
>> the posting?  Any suggestions in trying to resolve this would be greatly
>> appreciated.
> 
> That's a known problem with gmail.  There's something about this in the 
> FAQ Wiki, but I don't remember exactly where.
> 

It's here: http://wiki.list.org/x/2IA9

(I just searched for gmail)

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Mon Mar 16 16:13:40 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:13:40 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Poster not Receiving Postings
In-Reply-To: <49BE6B07.5040106@shub-internet.org>
References: <6B3A7025196C1A49AABB0E6C80AD5AE2D25485@apsaserv.APSA.local>
	<49BE6B07.5040106@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <20090316151340.GL4537@amyl.org.uk>

On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:06:47AM -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:
> Brian Canty wrote:
> 
> >Not sure if anyone has been experiencing the same problem.  I have a
> >poster who uses a gmail account to post and he is not getting a copy of
> >the posting?  Any suggestions in trying to resolve this would be greatly
> >appreciated.
> 
> That's a known problem with gmail.  There's something about this in the FAQ 
> Wiki, but I don't remember exactly where.

http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=6588&query=mailing+list+&topic=0&type=f
is the google help response.

(yes, it *is* in my bookmarks)

-- 
``There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to make
  it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies and the other is to
  make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies.'' (C. Hoare)

From Tim.Bell at Sun.COM  Mon Mar 16 16:13:50 2009
From: Tim.Bell at Sun.COM (Tim Bell)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:13:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Poster not Receiving Postings
In-Reply-To: <49BE6B07.5040106@shub-internet.org>
References: <6B3A7025196C1A49AABB0E6C80AD5AE2D25485@apsaserv.APSA.local>
	<49BE6B07.5040106@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <49BE6CAE.6020606@sun.com>

> Brian Canty wrote:

>> poster who uses a gmail account to post and he is not getting a copy of
>> the posting?  Any suggestions in trying to resolve this would be greatly
>> appreciated.

Ask your gmail users to look in their Sent Mail or All Mail for the 
message.  gmail is 'helping' your users by automatically filing the 
message they just sent.

> That's a known problem with gmail.  There's something about this in the 
> FAQ Wiki, but I don't remember exactly where.

 
http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/I+use+Gmail-Googlemail%2C+but+I+can%27t+tell+if+any+of+my+messages+have+been+posted+to+the+list

HTH - Tim

From pindoramalinux at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 16:23:56 2009
From: pindoramalinux at gmail.com (Richardson Lima)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:23:56 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman web interface not answered
Message-ID: <ca9792a20903160823x3b342bdftdb7d9d3161b47a1c@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

I installed mailman 2.1.9-7 on a web server , but a few months after
installing the web interface is not responding to mouse click.
Is there a script (python or perl) to manipulate the list of messages per
list (release or remove) ?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richardson Lima [ HACHID ]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From fil at rezo.net  Mon Mar 16 16:41:54 2009
From: fil at rezo.net (Fil)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:41:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Poster not Receiving Postings
In-Reply-To: <49BE6B07.5040106@shub-internet.org>
References: <6B3A7025196C1A49AABB0E6C80AD5AE2D25485@apsaserv.APSA.local>
	<49BE6B07.5040106@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <bfc33ad70903160841u1e2d2a6at52dbbc273daf0bf0@mail.gmail.com>

> That's a known problem with gmail.

Some of us appreciate the feature of non-duplication based on Message-Id.

-- Fil

From noc at iem.at  Mon Mar 16 16:58:26 2009
From: noc at iem.at (IEM - network operating center (IOhannes m zmoelnig))
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:58:26 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird archive "thread" view
Message-ID: <49BE7722.1090006@iem.at>

hi.

a user of one of my mailinglists noted that the thread-view of my 
mailing-list archives has become weird in the last months: basically new 
threads are sometimes subthreads of unrelated threads.
while there is always the chance, that users will just hijack a thread, 
i am pretty sure that this did not happen in various other cases (i 
looked at the headers of the mails coming in through the list, and they 
did not refer to any other mails)

an example thread-page would be:
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2009-03/thread.html
(at the end of the page between "[PD] Simultaneous Computation" and 
"[PD] change samplerate locally", the archive started 5 new threads, but 
there really are 9 threads)

any ideas where this comes from?

and, btw, is there a reason why the max thread-depth seems to be 4?

i have recently upgraded from Mailman-2.1.9 to 2.1.11, but the problem 
exists (at least) with mails generated with 2.1.9.

and all this is on debian.


fmgar
IOhannes

-- 
IEM - network operation center
mailto:noc at iem.at

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 16 17:11:28 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:11:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't show received mail on Mailman Archives
In-Reply-To: <1237207651.8038.39.camel@daniel-laptop>
Message-ID: <PC18702009031609112801253b90cbd9@msapiro>

Daniel.Li wrote:
>
>I'm using Postfix Mail Server 2.5.1 now.
>I use webmin to check mailman account, and found that all mails, I have
>sent before, are in the mailbox, which was NOT piped to Mailman.


You need aliases for your MTA of the form

LIST:  "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman post LIST"
LIST-bounces:  "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LIST"
etc.

for each list.

With Postfix, see <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html> for
information on setting this up for automatic generation of aliases.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 16 17:20:05 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:20:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman web interface not answered
In-Reply-To: <ca9792a20903160823x3b342bdftdb7d9d3161b47a1c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009031609200505623b90cd77@msapiro>

Richardson Lima wrote:
>
>I installed mailman 2.1.9-7 on a web server , but a few months after
>installing the web interface is not responding to mouse click.
>Is there a script (python or perl) to manipulate the list of messages per
>list (release or remove) ?

Mailman's bin/discard script can be used to delete held messages. There
is no corresponding script to accept them.

If you set admin_immed_notify to Yes, the admin will receive email
notification of each held message and can accept or discard them by
email.

I suggest the most practical thing for you to do is fix the issue with
your browser/web server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From noc at iem.at  Mon Mar 16 17:22:43 2009
From: noc at iem.at (IEM - network operating center (IOhannes m zmoelnig))
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:22:43 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mmarch mbox-splitting weird...
Message-ID: <49BE7CD3.7010608@iem.at>

hi.

i recently upgraded my mailing list server from debian etch to lenny, 
which included an upgrade from mailman 2.1.9 to 2.1.11;

due to some local hackery this somewhat broke my mailing list archives 
(the hackery only makes monthly archives available as e.g. 2009-03 
rather than 2009-March or 2009-Maerz or whatever).
i fixed my hacks, but in order to get the archives right i ran
"mmarch --wipe ...", and found myself suprised that this did not produce 
the desired results: the new archives seemed to contain some more emails 
than the original ones, all of them having "No subject" and appearing in 
the current archive directory.

it turned out that these new emails where parts of old emails.

the problem seems to be within the parsing of the mbox file: at some (to 
me) arbitrary points, Mailbox.py would decide that the mail has finished 
and start a new one; since the new one had no proper header, it ended up 
as "No subject" (and no author information).

i did not get any error messages during building of the archives.
(else i would have thought of out-of-memory problems or similar)


i noticed that this "bug" (or whatever it is) might have been available 
for quite some time: after some searching of my original archives, i 
fould at least one similar case when i rebuild the entire archive in 
2006-03 (where part of an email from 2003 (or so) ended up in my 2006-03 
folder with "No subject")

any ideas?


my archives are rather big by now (i think); e.g. one list has about 
68000 emails archived; rebuilding the archives with the renumbering as 
found above somehow breaks the entire archive; fixing it manually is no 
real option :-(

fgmasdr
IOhannes




-- 
IEM - network operation center
mailto:noc at iem.at

From beauj at cisco.com  Mon Mar 16 17:40:45 2009
From: beauj at cisco.com (Beau James)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:40:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Poster not Receiving Postings
Message-ID: <200903161640.n2GGejEG019176@cisco.com>

--> > That's a known problem with gmail.
--> 
--> Some of us appreciate the feature of non-duplication based on Message-Id.

And many of us do not.

At the very least, it should be a gmail behavior that is configurable
by each user account.  Not a "mother knows what's best" global behavior.

Beau

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 16 18:00:57 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:00:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird archive "thread" view
In-Reply-To: <49BE7722.1090006@iem.at>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903161000570531418aa5cc@msapiro>

IEM - network operating center (IOhannes m zmoelnig) wrote:
>
>a user of one of my mailinglists noted that the thread-view of my 
>mailing-list archives has become weird in the last months: basically new 
>threads are sometimes subthreads of unrelated threads.
>while there is always the chance, that users will just hijack a thread, 
>i am pretty sure that this did not happen in various other cases (i 
>looked at the headers of the mails coming in through the list, and they 
>did not refer to any other mails)


Look at the messages in archives/private/pd-list.mbox/pd-list.mbox. The
archives are threaded by message-id in References: and/or In-Reply-To:

If messages are threaded without one of those headers referencing a
prior message in the thread, then there is a problem with pipermail,
but if the header is there, it is a problem with the user or the
user's MUA.


>and, btw, is there a reason why the max thread-depth seems to be 4?


It's only the display depth that's limited to 4 to keep the page from
growing too wide.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 16 18:12:47 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:12:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mmarch mbox-splitting weird...
In-Reply-To: <49BE7CD3.7010608@iem.at>
Message-ID: <PC187020090316101247071855044c3d@msapiro>

IEM - network operating center (IOhannes m zmoelnig) wrote:
>
>i fixed my hacks, but in order to get the archives right i ran
>"mmarch --wipe ...", and found myself suprised that this did not produce 
>the desired results: the new archives seemed to contain some more emails 
>than the original ones, all of them having "No subject" and appearing in 
>the current archive directory.
>
>it turned out that these new emails where parts of old emails.
>
>the problem seems to be within the parsing of the mbox file: at some (to 
>me) arbitrary points, Mailbox.py would decide that the mail has finished 
>and start a new one; since the new one had no proper header, it ended up 
>as "No subject" (and no author information).


This is a well known issue. If a message body contains a line beginning
with "From ", bin/arch takes that as a message separator. Very old
Mailman didn't escape the From lines in the body.

You need to first clean your .mbox files with Mailman's bin/cleanarch
or some other process to escape the "From " lines that aren't message
separators.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Mar 16 18:48:57 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 02:48:57 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  mmarch mbox-splitting weird...
In-Reply-To: <49BE7CD3.7010608@iem.at>
References: <49BE7CD3.7010608@iem.at>
Message-ID: <87prgh73zq.fsf@xemacs.org>

IEM - network operating center (IOhannes m zmoelnig) writes:

 > i noticed that this "bug" (or whatever it is) might have been available 
 > for quite some time: after some searching of my original archives,

Most likely all the "new" messages start with the word "From".

It turns out that the only portable way to parse Unix mailboxes into
messages is to treat an empty line followed by a line starting with
the word "From" as a message separator.  For that reason, most Unix
mailers "stuff" that word whenever encountered in the body by
prefixing it with ">".  If your mail system doesn't do that, you get
the effect you've seen.

I believe that there's an option to mmarch to fix up this problem (or
maybe a separate utlity).


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 16 18:50:24 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:50:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.12 - Python 2.4.[456] incompatibility
Message-ID: <49BE9160.9020805@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

There is an internal inconsistency in the 3.0.2 email package that
shipped with Python 2.4.4 through 2.4.6. This has to do with the
Charset.Charset() constructor setting input_charset to a unicode which
then causes TypeError: decoding Unicode is not supported exceptions in
other parts of the email package. This problem does not seem to occur
with email 3.0.1 and Python 2.4.[123].

This (along with other stuff) is discussed in the bug report at
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/328353> and there is a patch
for email/Charset.py at
<http://launchpadlibrarian.net/23670138/Charset.py.patch>

At this point, the best advice seems to be use Python 2.5 or 2.6 with
Mailman 2.1.12.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)

iD8DBQFJvpFfVVuXXpU7hpMRAt1PAKDJ6BY84Fx271paX1m4BrtUikMFvQCePbyg
8xyRMCTeV2GB5v0ZZhjCf7E=
=ji8z
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 16 20:50:33 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:50:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird archive "thread" view
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903161000570531418aa5cc@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200903161000570531418aa5cc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49BEAD89.1080909@msapiro.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> IEM - network operating center (IOhannes m zmoelnig) wrote:
>>
>>a user of one of my mailinglists noted that the thread-view of my 
>>mailing-list archives has become weird in the last months: basically new 
>>threads are sometimes subthreads of unrelated threads.
>>while there is always the chance, that users will just hijack a thread, 
>>i am pretty sure that this did not happen in various other cases (i 
>>looked at the headers of the mails coming in through the list, and they 
>>did not refer to any other mails)
> 
> 
> Look at the messages in archives/private/pd-list.mbox/pd-list.mbox. The
> archives are threaded by message-id in References: and/or In-Reply-To:
> 
> If messages are threaded without one of those headers referencing a
> prior message in the thread, then there is a problem with pipermail,
> but if the header is there, it is a problem with the user or the
> user's MUA.


I wasn't sure, but I see that the References: and In-Reply-To: headers
are kept in the periodic .txt files so I looked at
<http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2009-03.txt> and I see
that as you say, there are messages that don't have any References: or
In-Reply-To: header that are still threaded with other messages.

However, I have not seen this elsewhere with 2.1.9 or 2.1.11. Do you
suppose it could be related to your date hack?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mwelch at redwoodalliance.org  Tue Mar 17 00:20:39 2009
From: mwelch at redwoodalliance.org (Michael Welch)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:20:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request
Message-ID: <20090316232052.A6E811810AF@friskymail-a3.g.dreamhost.com>

I would love to see some way of putting someone on moderation when I add or invite them via Mass Subscriptions (which for me is normally one at a time anyway).

Elsewise, I have to stay on top of their subscription notification and get to the Membership List page before they have a chance to post.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
Michael Welch, volunteer
Redwood Alliance
PO Box 293
Arcata, CA 95518
707-822-7884
mwelch at redwoodalliance.org
www.redwoodalliance.org


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Tue Mar 17 00:33:19 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 23:33:19 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request
In-Reply-To: <20090316232052.A6E811810AF@friskymail-a3.g.dreamhost.com>
References: <20090316232052.A6E811810AF@friskymail-a3.g.dreamhost.com>
Message-ID: <20090316233318.GV4537@amyl.org.uk>

On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 04:20:39PM -0700, Michael Welch wrote:
> I would love to see some way of putting someone on moderation when I
> add or invite them via Mass Subscriptions (which for me is normally
> one at a time anyway).

have you used the default_member_moderation (privacy/sender) setting?

-- 
``Bernard: It's another of those irregular verbs. I hold 
  confidential briefings, you leak, he's been charged 
  under section 2A of the Official Secrets Act. ''

From mwelch at redwoodalliance.org  Tue Mar 17 00:59:09 2009
From: mwelch at redwoodalliance.org (Michael Welch)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:59:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request
In-Reply-To: <20090316233318.GV4537@amyl.org.uk>
References: <20090316232052.A6E811810AF@friskymail-a3.g.dreamhost.com>
	<20090316233318.GV4537@amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <20090317000016.47DEF121DCE@friskymail-a4.g.dreamhost.com>

Hi Adam.

Ahh, a workaround. Change the default setting, add the member, then change it back. 

Unfortunately, one has to wait until after the new member has confirmed before changing the default moderation settng back.

Need to tie a string around my finger.

Adam McGreggor wrote at 04:33 PM 3/16/2009:
 
>On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 04:20:39PM -0700, Michael Welch wrote:
>> I would love to see some way of putting someone on moderation when I
>> add or invite them via Mass Subscriptions (which for me is normally
>> one at a time anyway).
>
>have you used the default_member_moderation (privacy/sender) setting?


- - - - - - - - - - - -
Michael Welch, volunteer
Redwood Alliance
PO Box 293
Arcata, CA 95518
707-822-7884
mwelch at redwoodalliance.org
www.redwoodalliance.org


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 17 01:27:21 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:27:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request
In-Reply-To: <20090317000016.47DEF121DCE@friskymail-a4.g.dreamhost.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009031617272108754776ab40@msapiro>

Michael Welch wrote:
>
>Ahh, a workaround. Change the default setting, add the member, then change it back. 
>
>Unfortunately, one has to wait until after the new member has confirmed before changing the default moderation settng back.


I don't get it. Why would you want to moderate new members you invite
and not moderate new members who subscribe themselves? If anything,
this seems just backwards.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mwelch at redwoodalliance.org  Tue Mar 17 01:45:53 2009
From: mwelch at redwoodalliance.org (Michael Welch)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:45:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009031617272108754776ab40@msapiro>
References: <20090317000016.47DEF121DCE@friskymail-a4.g.dreamhost.com>
	<PC18702009031617272108754776ab40@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20090317004606.AFE37121DB8@friskymail-a4.g.dreamhost.com>



Mark Sapiro wrote at 05:27 PM 3/16/2009:
 
>Michael Welch wrote:
>>
>>Ahh, a workaround. Change the default setting, add the member, then change it back. 
>>
>>Unfortunately, one has to wait until after the new member has confirmed before changing the default moderation settng back.
>
>I don't get it. Why would you want to moderate new members you invite
>and not moderate new members who subscribe themselves? If anything,
>this seems just backwards.

Fair enough question. One actual and one theoretical answer.

The actual case that just occurred was that a known off-topic poster from another related list wants to join the list in question. The list in question has no public component, so subscription requests beyond personal invitation are rare.

Further, sometimes I can just tell from an email address or a stated reason for  wanting to join that the person might be a spammer. On a Yahoo Group I manage, approximately 10-15% of the signups fit the categories of potential spammers or likely off-topic posters.

Lyris has a great feature that puts new members on moderation until they have had x number of unrejected posts. I really like that idea.


- - - - - - - - - - - -
Michael Welch, volunteer
Redwood Alliance
PO Box 293
Arcata, CA 95518
707-822-7884
mwelch at redwoodalliance.org
www.redwoodalliance.org


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 17 01:57:55 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:57:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request
In-Reply-To: <20090317004606.AFE37121DB8@friskymail-a4.g.dreamhost.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009031617575504533c9254fc@msapiro>

Michael Welch wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro wrote at 05:27 PM 3/16/2009:
> 
>>Michael Welch wrote:
>>>
>>>Ahh, a workaround. Change the default setting, add the member, then change it back. 
>>>
>>>Unfortunately, one has to wait until after the new member has confirmed before changing the default moderation settng back.
>>
>>I don't get it. Why would you want to moderate new members you invite
>>and not moderate new members who subscribe themselves? If anything,
>>this seems just backwards.
>
>Fair enough question. One actual and one theoretical answer.
>
>The actual case that just occurred was that a known off-topic poster from another related list wants to join the list in question. The list in question has no public component, so subscription requests beyond personal invitation are rare.

So what you really want is in some (unusual) cases but not all (normal
cases) to be able to send an invitation that when accepted will result
in a moderated member.

As far as a direct add is concerned, the easiest is add the member and
then set her moderated from the membership list.

I don't know if adding a 'moderate' flag to invitations is really of
general interest.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From james at thereidsonline.com  Tue Mar 17 03:51:09 2009
From: james at thereidsonline.com (James Reid)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:51:09 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009031617575504533c9254fc@msapiro>
References: <PC18702009031617575504533c9254fc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <54203.203.35.82.136.1237258269.squirrel@secure.reidware.net>

Hi Everyone,

For what it is worth... I'd like to be able to have all the options that
are available in the user management screen available in the bulk
subscription screen.

I operate a list which is closed to anyone except by personal invite, so
pretty much use the bulk subscribe option for all of my subscriptions.

A large number of my subscribers come are older in age, and typically are
quite timid to do anything more than send and receive emails.  The result
is that they generally email me to advise of changes to their
subscriptions + email addresses of others who want to join the list - it
would be far easier to both "add" the new user and "configure" all from
the bulk subscription page.

Personally, I'd also like to move away from calling this option "bulk
subscriptions" - adding subscribers one-at-a-time is not "bulk"!!!

Regards,
James.

> Michael Welch wrote:
>>
>>Mark Sapiro wrote at 05:27 PM 3/16/2009:
>>
>>>Michael Welch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Ahh, a workaround. Change the default setting, add the member, then
>>>> change it back.
>>>>
>>>>Unfortunately, one has to wait until after the new member has confirmed
>>>> before changing the default moderation settng back.
>>>
>>>I don't get it. Why would you want to moderate new members you invite
>>>and not moderate new members who subscribe themselves? If anything,
>>>this seems just backwards.
>>
>>Fair enough question. One actual and one theoretical answer.
>>
>>The actual case that just occurred was that a known off-topic poster from
>> another related list wants to join the list in question. The list in
>> question has no public component, so subscription requests beyond
>> personal invitation are rare.
>
> So what you really want is in some (unusual) cases but not all (normal
> cases) to be able to send an invitation that when accepted will result
> in a moderated member.
>
> As far as a direct add is concerned, the easiest is add the member and
> then set her moderated from the membership list.
>
> I don't know if adding a 'moderate' flag to invitations is really of
> general interest.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/james%40thereidsonline.com
>
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>



From mwelch at redwoodalliance.org  Tue Mar 17 04:32:20 2009
From: mwelch at redwoodalliance.org (Michael Welch)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:32:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009031617575504533c9254fc@msapiro>
References: <20090317004606.AFE37121DB8@friskymail-a4.g.dreamhost.com>
	<PC18702009031617575504533c9254fc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20090317044416.AA1535F5A9@friskymail-a1.g.dreamhost.com>



Mark Sapiro wrote at 05:57 PM 3/16/2009:
 
>I don't know if adding a 'moderate' flag to invitations is really of general interest.

Hi Mark. I am not sure either, but I know that I have wished for it more than once. I know that Mailman cannot be everything to everyone.

I think that more universal would be the feature of new subscribers being put on moderation with a set number of approved posts until moderation is automatically removed.  

- - - - - - - - - - - -
Michael Welch, volunteer
Redwood Alliance
PO Box 293
Arcata, CA 95518
707-822-7884
mwelch at redwoodalliance.org
www.redwoodalliance.org


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Mar 17 10:08:20 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:08:20 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request
In-Reply-To: <20090317044416.AA1535F5A9@friskymail-a1.g.dreamhost.com>
References: <20090317004606.AFE37121DB8@friskymail-a4.g.dreamhost.com>
	<PC18702009031617575504533c9254fc@msapiro>
	<20090317044416.AA1535F5A9@friskymail-a1.g.dreamhost.com>
Message-ID: <87eiww7bzv.fsf@xemacs.org>

Michael Welch writes:

 > Mark Sapiro wrote at 05:57 PM 3/16/2009:
 >  
 > >I don't know if adding a 'moderate' flag to invitations is really
 > >of general interest.
 > 
 > Hi Mark. I am not sure either, but I know that I have wished for it
 > more than once. I know that Mailman cannot be everything to
 > everyone.

I think James's suggestion is good: combine the user config stuff
(currently only used to set defaults) with the manual subscription
screen.  I would add a checkbox "Make these settings default".  Either
way, the settings would apply to all subscriptions entered on that
instance of the screen.  (If no new subscriptions, it would just set
the defaults.)

From noc at iem.at  Tue Mar 17 10:13:08 2009
From: noc at iem.at (IEM - network operating center (IOhannes m zmoelnig))
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:13:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird archive "thread" view
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903161000570531418aa5cc@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200903161000570531418aa5cc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49BF69A4.9040109@iem.at>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> IEM - network operating center (IOhannes m zmoelnig) wrote:
>> a user of one of my mailinglists noted that the thread-view of my 
>> mailing-list archives has become weird in the last months: basically new 
>> threads are sometimes subthreads of unrelated threads.
>> while there is always the chance, that users will just hijack a thread, 
>> i am pretty sure that this did not happen in various other cases (i 
>> looked at the headers of the mails coming in through the list, and they 
>> did not refer to any other mails)
> 
> 
> Look at the messages in archives/private/pd-list.mbox/pd-list.mbox. The
> archives are threaded by message-id in References: and/or In-Reply-To:
> 
> If messages are threaded without one of those headers referencing a
> prior message in the thread, then there is a problem with pipermail,
> but if the header is there, it is a problem with the user or the
> user's MUA.

as you have already noticed the problem seems to be somewhere else.
the references are correct within the mbox file.


one thing that might be related to this is: if a thread was started in 
an earlier archive-volume, the thread continuation will be indented as 
if it was in the same archive-volume.
e.g. a thread starts late january and by february it has reached a depth 
of 4.
in the archives for february, it will thus start with a thread-depth 4, 
making it _appear_ as if it was part of another thread (which by chance 
might have had depth 3.
it might be a good idea to somehow make thread boundaries visible with 
some more explicit technique than indentation.


my own hackery _might_ be related in a weird way: after the upgrade from 
2.1.9(patched) to 2.1.11 the archiver stopped working alltogether (since 
i added a new archive-type "month00" rather than replacing "month"); so 
some mails have not been archived at all; which might make up for the 
weird threading (e.g. if the initial mail of a thread had not been 
archived, the next mail would start at level 2; again making it appear 
as if it was a follow-up to something unrelated)

in any case i am attaching my hackery...


>> and, btw, is there a reason why the max thread-depth seems to be 4?
> 
> 
> It's only the display depth that's limited to 4 to keep the page from
> growing too wide.


is this settable somewhere in a configuration file?
i found THREADLEVELS in Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py, but no relation 
to mm_cfg.
(even though i have a hacked version of mailman, i prefer to keep the 
number of hacks minimal :-))


gmasd
IOhannes



-- 
IEM - network operation center
mailto:noc at iem.at

From noc at iem.at  Tue Mar 17 10:42:25 2009
From: noc at iem.at (IEM - network operating center (IOhannes m zmoelnig))
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:42:25 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mmarch mbox-splitting weird...
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090316101247071855044c3d@msapiro>
References: <PC187020090316101247071855044c3d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49BF7081.6010106@iem.at>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> You need to first clean your .mbox files with Mailman's bin/cleanarch
> or some other process to escape the "From " lines that aren't message
> separators.


ah thanks, that will hopefully do the trick.


however, this leaves me with one remaining problem:
rebuilding the archives will rename several tenthousands of emails.
while our archives do have a search functionality, this will still break 
links to most archived emails.

how would i rebuild only the last month of an archive?

and: is there a way to rebuld an archive in a "sandbox"; that is: can i 
somehow specify the destination directory of the archive-building 
process? (so i can rebuild the entire archive till it fits my needs and 
only then swap it with the current one)


fgmasdr
IOhannes



-- 
IEM - network operation center
mailto:noc at iem.at

From lida_mail at 163.com  Tue Mar 17 12:00:02 2009
From: lida_mail at 163.com (Daniel.Li)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:00:02 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't show received mail on Mailman Archives
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009031609112801253b90cbd9@msapiro>
References: <PC18702009031609112801253b90cbd9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1237287602.6756.1.camel@daniel-laptop>

On Mon, 2009-03-16 at 09:11 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: 
> Daniel.Li wrote:
> >
> >I'm using Postfix Mail Server 2.5.1 now.
> >I use webmin to check mailman account, and found that all mails, I have
> >sent before, are in the mailbox, which was NOT piped to Mailman.
> 
> 
> You need aliases for your MTA of the form
> 
> LIST:  "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman post LIST"
> LIST-bounces:  "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LIST"
> etc.
> 
> for each list.
> 
> With Postfix, see <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html> for
> information on setting this up for automatic generation of aliases.

Yes Sir. That's the root cause for my problem. 
After configured properly, it works :) 
> 
-- 
Daniel.Li <lida_mail at 163.com>
PALFocus (http://palfocus.oicp.net)



From Scott.1Jones at ge.com  Tue Mar 17 15:07:21 2009
From: Scott.1Jones at ge.com (Jones, Scott (GE Money, consultant))
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:07:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up mailman on ubuntu 8.10 / desktop and
	server
Message-ID: <A72D33814AF8C34789CF947E425CD8180A5EF095@ALPMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>

I recently attempted to set up Mailman on my ubuntu machine. I have been
running several lists on an older machine running etch, which has worked
fine, but when attempting the install on 8.10 desktop, I kept running
into errors and roadblocks. Is it just me or are there issues and
workarounds required for 8.10 installation and operation? 

Scott


From James.Kemp at ips.gsi.gov.uk  Tue Mar 17 15:44:34 2009
From: James.Kemp at ips.gsi.gov.uk (Kemp James)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:44:34 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up mailman on ubuntu 8.10 / desktop
 andserver
In-Reply-To: <A72D33814AF8C34789CF947E425CD8180A5EF095@ALPMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
References: <A72D33814AF8C34789CF947E425CD8180A5EF095@ALPMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
Message-ID: <ECC41EE8F8763E48BAE34DC9F6C4D4FD9F954E@belexh001.ukps.ho>

From: mailman-users at python.org On Behalf Of Jones, Scott (GE Money,
consultant)  
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 2:07 PM
> 
> I recently attempted to set up Mailman on my ubuntu machine. 
> I have been running several lists on an older machine running 
> etch, which has worked fine, but when attempting the install 
> on 8.10 desktop, I kept running into errors and roadblocks. 
> Is it just me or are there issues and workarounds required 
> for 8.10 installation and operation? 

I've got 8.10 and mailman is working just fine. That said, I installed
it originally on 7.04 and have been through three distro upgrades (with
a fourth coming imminently). I did have some teething problems, but
resolved them by reading through the documentation. 

My setup is postfix, apache2 and mailman from the ubuntu packages. If
interested I am willing to share my (anonymised) config files. 


-- 
James Kemp

All views expressed in this e-mail are my personal views and not those
of my employer. 

**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses.

**********************************************************************


The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet virus scanning service supplied by Cable&Wireless in partnership with MessageLabs. (CCTM Certificate Number 2007/11/0032.) On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus free.
Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes.

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 17 17:25:43 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:25:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mmarch mbox-splitting weird...
In-Reply-To: <49BF7081.6010106@iem.at>
Message-ID: <PC18702009031709254308595d7dc246@msapiro>

IEM - network operating center (IOhannes m zmoelnig) wrote:
>
>however, this leaves me with one remaining problem:
>rebuilding the archives will rename several tenthousands of emails.
>while our archives do have a search functionality, this will still break 
>links to most archived emails.


This is a known issue with rebuilding old archives. You may find that
fixing the .mbox solves this because you will no longer be assigning
message numbers to spurious partial messages, but probably this won't
completely solve the problem.


>how would i rebuild only the last month of an archive?


This is only a suggestion to try. I haven't actually tried it.

0) backup everything
1) remove all the archives/private/LISTNAME/* files and directories for
the last month
2) remove all the archives/private/LISTNAME/database/* files for the
last month.
3) consider removing the archives/private/LISTNAME/attachments/*
directories for the last month, but don't do it if you are concerned
about attachments scrubbed from the plain digest as you will break
those links.
4) using bin/withlist, unpickle the the
archives/private/LISTNAME/pipermail.pck data, and update 'archive',
'archivedate', 'archives', 'firstdate', 'lastdate', 'sequence' and
'size' to make it look like the last message in the archive is the
last message for the prior month, and pickle it back.
5) copy the last months messages from
archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox to a separate file.
6) run bin/arch without the --wipe option and with the separate last
month's .mbox as input.


>and: is there a way to rebuld an archive in a "sandbox"; that is: can i 
>somehow specify the destination directory of the archive-building 
>process? (so i can rebuild the entire archive till it fits my needs and 
>only then swap it with the current one)


This is probably more practical. Just create another Mailman instance
with a different prefix and copy the lists/ and archives/private/
directories to this second instance.


You could probably also do it by putting

PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR = '/some/path'

in mm_cfg.py in your current installation, but this is risky. It
probably won't affect the running qrunners as long as they don't
restart for any reason, but it will affect any web or command line
accesses so you wouldn't want to do it unless you stopped web access
to Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 17 18:16:01 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:16:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird archive "thread" view
In-Reply-To: <49BF69A4.9040109@iem.at>
Message-ID: <PC18702009031710160101563d938e1d@msapiro>

IEM - network operating center (IOhannes m zmoelnig) wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>> If messages are threaded without one of those headers referencing a
>> prior message in the thread, then there is a problem with pipermail,
>> but if the header is there, it is a problem with the user or the
>> user's MUA.
>
>as you have already noticed the problem seems to be somewhere else.
>the references are correct within the mbox file.
>
>
>one thing that might be related to this is: if a thread was started in 
>an earlier archive-volume, the thread continuation will be indented as 
>if it was in the same archive-volume.
>e.g. a thread starts late january and by february it has reached a depth 
>of 4.
>in the archives for february, it will thus start with a thread-depth 4, 
>making it _appear_ as if it was part of another thread (which by chance 
>might have had depth 3.
>it might be a good idea to somehow make thread boundaries visible with 
>some more explicit technique than indentation.


The 'initial' indentation of a continued thread in a new month is
almost certainly related to your patches. It doesn't occur with
unpatched pipermail.

See for example the posts

# [Mailman-Users] one list not sending to members   Mark Sapiro
# [Mailman-Users] password sends   Mark Sapiro 

at the beginning of
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-March/thread.html>.
Both of these are replies to February posts.


>my own hackery _might_ be related in a weird way: after the upgrade from 
>2.1.9(patched) to 2.1.11 the archiver stopped working alltogether (since 
>i added a new archive-type "month00" rather than replacing "month"); so 
>some mails have not been archived at all; which might make up for the 
>weird threading (e.g. if the initial mail of a thread had not been 
>archived, the next mail would start at level 2; again making it appear 
>as if it was a follow-up to something unrelated)
>
>in any case i am attaching my hackery...
>
>
>>> and, btw, is there a reason why the max thread-depth seems to be 4?
>> 
>> 
>> It's only the display depth that's limited to 4 to keep the page from
>> growing too wide.
>
>
>is this settable somewhere in a configuration file?
>i found THREADLEVELS in Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py, but no relation 
>to mm_cfg.
>(even though i have a hacked version of mailman, i prefer to keep the 
>number of hacks minimal :-))


No, it is not settable in mm_cfg.py. Also, no one wants to touch or
even think about pipermail. It is too convoluted. It is not the least
surprising that your changes may have had unintended consequences.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From fatkinson at mishmash.com  Sun Mar 15 15:50:46 2009
From: fatkinson at mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 07:50:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Greetings and Question
Message-ID: <001201c9a57d$6ced35f0$c800000a@mishmash>

Hello, 

    I have been running a number of Mailman lists.  

    I would like to know if there is a simple way to download the entire list membership showing both each user's name and email address.  

    Regards, 




                                                                Fred 

From rnickel at scea.com  Mon Mar 16 07:16:13 2009
From: rnickel at scea.com (Robert Nickel)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 23:16:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why does this happen???
In-Reply-To: <000f01c9a533$4daa2080$e8fe6180$@com>
References: <000f01c9a533$4daa2080$e8fe6180$@com>
Message-ID: <20090316061613.GX4183@coinelement.989studios.com>

On 2009.03.15 17:00:08 +1100, James Reid wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Can someone please explain why I have a small number of users who
> occasionally send message to mylist-bounces at domain.com instead of to the
> correct address mylist at domain.com ?
> 
> I suspect that it is to do with the email client that they are using and
> whether they are replying or reply-to-all, but don't see it happening often
> enough to be able to figure it out (I'd like to add something to the sign-on
> message for the group to give people more info on how to avoid this
> problem).

This is a reply-to-all artifact.  It gets caught by the bounce processor and
is not understood as a normal bounce message and gets forwarded on to you.

Nothing is wrong with mailman, some user education could help but it will
never go away totally unless you wish to completely disable unrecognized
bounce messages which is a bad thing.

HTH,
  --Robert

From rnickel at scea.com  Mon Mar 16 17:19:13 2009
From: rnickel at scea.com (Robert Nickel)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:19:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How-to suppress replies to mail
	sent	tolist-subscribe@...
In-Reply-To: <49BDFB38.9010007@calamus.net>
References: <PC18702009031508315404538f08b87b@msapiro>
	<49BDFB38.9010007@calamus.net>
Message-ID: <20090316161913.GC4946@coinelement.989studios.com>

On 2009.03.16 08:09:44 +0100, Ulf Dunkel wrote:
> Hi Robert and Mark.
>
> Doesn't the "respond_to_post_requests" (to be found in the [General  
> Options] page of the admin interface) do the trick?
>
> ---snip---
> Send mail to poster when their posting is held for approval?
> (Edit respond_to_post_requests)
> (*) No  ( ) Yes
> ---snap---
>
> Just my two cents,

I understood this to mean that a reply would be sent when the list is being
moderated and their post is held for approval.

--Robert

From rnickel at scea.com  Mon Mar 16 18:00:55 2009
From: rnickel at scea.com (Robert Nickel)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:00:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to create an "open" mailing list for new
	posts...
Message-ID: <20090316170055.GF4946@coinelement.989studios.com>

I apologize if I'm missing and FAQ on this one.

I'm trying to set a list to accept all new posts without any further actions.
Subscribers will add themselves to the list as usual but others will only
occasionally post to the list and I don't want to have to moderate all of the
posts from non-member addresses.

Thanks,
--Robert

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 17 21:55:43 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:55:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Greetings and Question
In-Reply-To: <001201c9a57d$6ced35f0$c800000a@mishmash>
Message-ID: <PC187020090317135543025076ea3a25@msapiro>

Fred Atkinson wrote:
>
>    I would like to know if there is a simple way to download the entire list membership showing both each user's name and email address.  


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/aYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 17 22:02:14 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:02:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to create an "open" mailing list for
	newposts...
In-Reply-To: <20090316170055.GF4946@coinelement.989studios.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020090317140214042176ea3ab3@msapiro>

Robert Nickel wrote:
>
>I'm trying to set a list to accept all new posts without any further actions.
>Subscribers will add themselves to the list as usual but others will only
>occasionally post to the list and I don't want to have to moderate all of the
>posts from non-member addresses.


Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> generic_nonmember_action

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dunkel at calamus.net  Wed Mar 18 08:13:22 2009
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:13:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Greetings and Question
In-Reply-To: <001201c9a57d$6ced35f0$c800000a@mishmash>
References: <001201c9a57d$6ced35f0$c800000a@mishmash>
Message-ID: <49C09F12.8060703@calamus.net>

> I would like to know if there is a simple way to download the entire list membership showing both each user's name and email address.  

Short answer: yes. ;-)

Longer answer: mailto:<listname>-request at domain.tld who <password>

HTH, Ulf Dunkel

From hamaryns at googlemail.com  Wed Mar 18 09:59:17 2009
From: hamaryns at googlemail.com (Hendrik Maryns)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:59:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change the text at the bottom of sent
 mails
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903130804130984286bbd65@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200903130804130984286bbd65@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49C0B7E5.4080008@googlemail.com>

Op 13-03-09 16:04 heeft Mark Sapiro als volgt van zich laten horen:
> Hendrik Maryns wrote:
>> Btw, the
>> FAQ seems to be messed up.
> 
> 
> Please be more specific about what is wrong with the FAQ so we can fix
> it.
> 
> 
>> My question is the following: under the mails I get from my list, I see
>> the following text:
>>
>> Mitarbeiter mailing list
>> Mitarbeiter at weltladen-tuebingen.de
>> http://mailman.biohostnet.de/mailman/listinfo/mitarbeiter
>>
>> The links are fine, but the first line bothers me: nowhere in the admin
>> area did I find a place to change this, and in German, it is just plain
>> wrong.  Did I overlook something?
> 
> 
> These are on the web admin interface. Non-digest options
> (Non-Digest-Optionen) -> msg_footer for individual messages and Digest
> options (Optionen f?r Nachrichtensammlungen) -> digest_footer for
> digests.

Thanks, that was it.  The default text is rather cryptic, and therefore
I hadn?t seen.

Cheers, H.
-- 
Opgepast | Achtung | Attention
adressen gewijzigd!
Adressen ge?ndert!
adresses changed!

Hendrik Maryns
Biesingerstra?e 5
D-72070 T?bingen
+491753353494
hamaryns at googlemail.com
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/


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From hamaryns at googlemail.com  Wed Mar 18 10:04:21 2009
From: hamaryns at googlemail.com (Hendrik Maryns)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:04:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change the text at the bottom of sent
 mails
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903130804130984286bbd65@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200903130804130984286bbd65@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49C0B915.5020201@googlemail.com>

Op 13-03-09 16:04 heeft Mark Sapiro als volgt van zich laten horen:
> Hendrik Maryns wrote:
>> Btw, the
>> FAQ seems to be messed up.
> 
> 
> Please be more specific about what is wrong with the FAQ so we can fix
> it.

For a starters, the bottom of the Digest has

Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Which redirects to

http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Frequently+Asked+Questions

Then, I?ve seen that this latter site has expanded over the last days,
which is of course great.

But I think the layout is quite confusing, with that Labels thing coming
on top.  That should be at the bottom.  Also, it says ?They're organized
into several sections: click on each section to view the questions for
that section, or use the "View in Hierarchy" link to see them all listed
in a tree.? which is simply not true.

And I had expected more and more specific questions.

Cheers, H.
-- 
Opgepast | Achtung | Attention
adressen gewijzigd!
Adressen ge?ndert!
adresses changed!

Hendrik Maryns
Biesingerstra?e 5
D-72070 T?bingen
+491753353494
hamaryns at googlemail.com
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/


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From fil at rezo.net  Wed Mar 18 14:05:34 2009
From: fil at rezo.net (Fil)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:05:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Greetings and Question
In-Reply-To: <49C09F12.8060703@calamus.net>
References: <001201c9a57d$6ced35f0$c800000a@mishmash>
	<49C09F12.8060703@calamus.net>
Message-ID: <bfc33ad70903180605u3e8bd7fdybbe19c97ba7f1f30@mail.gmail.com>

> Longer answer: mailto:<listname>-request at domain.tld who <password>

Apparently this doesn't work with the site password


-- Fil

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Mar 18 15:47:37 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:47:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Greetings and Question
In-Reply-To: <bfc33ad70903180605u3e8bd7fdybbe19c97ba7f1f30@mail.gmail.com>
References: <001201c9a57d$6ced35f0$c800000a@mishmash>	<49C09F12.8060703@calamus.net>
	<bfc33ad70903180605u3e8bd7fdybbe19c97ba7f1f30@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49C10989.30501@shub-internet.org>

Fil wrote:

>> Longer answer: mailto:<listname>-request at domain.tld who <password>
> 
> Apparently this doesn't work with the site password

And it doesn't show anyone who has had their subscription hidden.

If you want a complete canonical list, the only way is via the command line 
tool "list_members".

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Mar 18 15:54:54 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:54:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Greetings and Question
In-Reply-To: <49C10989.30501@shub-internet.org>
References: <001201c9a57d$6ced35f0$c800000a@mishmash>	<49C09F12.8060703@calamus.net>
	<bfc33ad70903180605u3e8bd7fdybbe19c97ba7f1f30@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C10989.30501@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <49C10B3E.9060304@shub-internet.org>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>>> Longer answer: mailto:<listname>-request at domain.tld who <password>
>>
>> Apparently this doesn't work with the site password
> 
> And it doesn't show anyone who has had their subscription hidden.
> 
> If you want a complete canonical list, the only way is via the command 
> line tool "list_members".

Actually, I take that back.  There are ways to script this from the web 
interface (STFFW -- search the fine FAQ Wiki), but there aren't any other 
native built-in tools that Mailman provides to give you a complete list of 
all subscribers.

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Mar 18 15:57:11 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:57:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change the text at the bottom of sent
 mails
In-Reply-To: <49C0B915.5020201@googlemail.com>
References: <PC1870200903130804130984286bbd65@msapiro>
	<49C0B915.5020201@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <49C10BC7.6010505@shub-internet.org>

Hendrik Maryns wrote:

> And I had expected more and more specific questions.

What is there today is the result of questions that we have accumulated over 
the years, but obviously we can't put anything into the FAQ if people don't 
ask the questions, and if other people don't take those questions (and their 
answers) and put them in.

If there are any specific questions you can think of that should be there, 
then please feel free to contribute them and provide the appropriate answers.

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 18 16:16:59 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:16:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Greetings and Question
In-Reply-To: <49C10989.30501@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903180816590906c5f4ba05@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>Fil wrote:
>
>>> Longer answer: mailto:<listname>-request at domain.tld who <password>
>> 
>> Apparently this doesn't work with the site password


This is intentional to discourage sending the plain text site password
in an email.


>And it doesn't show anyone who has had their subscription hidden.


As of 2.1.10, if authentication is with the list admin or moderator
password, hidden members are shown. The same is true for the web
roster.

The following are the help messages for who depending on whether the
roster is public, members only or admin only.


PUBLICHELP = _("""
    who
        See the non-hidden members of this mailing list.
    who password
        See everyone who is on this mailing list. The password is the
        list's admin or moderator password.
""")

MEMBERSONLYHELP = _("""
    who password [address=<address>]
        See the non-hidden members of this mailing list.  The roster is
        limited to list members only, and you must supply your
membership
        password to retrieve it.  If you're posting from an address
other
        than your membership address, specify your membership address
with
        `address=<address>' (no brackets around the email address, and
no
        quotes!). If you provide the list's admin or moderator password,
        hidden members will be included.
""")

ADMINONLYHELP = _("""
    who password
        See everyone who is on this mailing list.  The roster is
limited to
        list administrators and moderators only; you must supply the
list
        admin or moderator password to retrieve the roster.
""")



-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 18 16:30:17 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:30:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FAQ issues - was: How to change the text at the
	bottom of sentmails
In-Reply-To: <49C0B915.5020201@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903180830170578d8f82013@msapiro>

Hendrik Maryns wrote:
>
>For a starters, the bottom of the Digest has
>
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>
>Which redirects to
>
>http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Frequently+Asked+Questions


The msg_footer has the current, short URL <http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3>

Brad - can you check and fix the digest_footer on the mailman lists.


>Then, I've seen that this latter site has expanded over the last days,
>which is of course great.
>
>But I think the layout is quite confusing, with that Labels thing coming
>on top.  That should be at the bottom.


Unfortunately, I think this is a Confluence thing over which we have no
control.


>Also, it says "They're organized
>into several sections: click on each section to view the questions for
>that section, or use the "View in Hierarchy" link to see them all listed
>in a tree." which is simply not true.


What's not true? It works for me.


>And I had expected more and more specific questions.


As Brad has already noted, it's a community driven wiki. We try to get
common questions answered there, but I'm sure there are gaps. You can
help. If you ask a question on this list that you think is a FAQ that
isn't in the wiki, when you get the answer, add it to the wiki.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Tlf1 at ccs135.com  Wed Mar 18 19:24:42 2009
From: Tlf1 at ccs135.com (Tim Ferguson)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:24:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Incoming mail No
Message-ID: <49C0F61A020000BD00014ED6@mail.ccs135.com>


I've been tied up with other things and not been able to work on it, but I still can't use Mailman to send out posts because inbound traffic doesn't make it back to mailman.   Thus, users register but their verification doesn't get "verified", etc. 

When I attempt to send a post to mailman, my GroupWise (8) GWIA sends me an e-mail that completion of the e-mail has been delayed because the  server (Linux) is down, which it isn't.  This message repeats about every fifteen minutes or so. 

Since I've not worked with a Linux mail server before, what is the procedure, what software do I need, to send and receive e-mail using the Linux server as a regular user just to make sure mail is coming and going or to see where it might be hanging up?  For install, will Thunderbird work, and, if so, how does it need to be configured?  I realize this is very elementary, but it isn't cooperating like Novell's GroupWise or Microsoft's Exchange server. 

Thank you! 

Tim 
Tim Ferguson
Director of Technology
Centralia City Schools
Centralia, Illinois 62801
618-532-1907, Ext. 1030





From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Wed Mar 18 20:04:58 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:04:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Incoming mail No
In-Reply-To: <49C0F61A020000BD00014ED6@mail.ccs135.com>
References: <49C0F61A020000BD00014ED6@mail.ccs135.com>
Message-ID: <49C145DA.5000500@riverviewtech.net>

On 03/18/09 13:24, Tim Ferguson wrote:
> When I attempt to send a post to mailman, my GroupWise (8) GWIA sends 
> me an e-mail that completion of the e-mail has been delayed because 
> the  server (Linux) is down, which it isn't.  This message repeats 
> about every fifteen minutes or so.

Hum.  This makes me believe that GWIA is not able to route email to the 
MTA, Postfix (guessing based on previous post), running on the Linux host.

What (sub)domain are you using for your Mailman mailing lists?  I.e. are 
your mailing lists part of your ccs135.com domain as in 
mailing_list at ccs135.com or are they part of a sub-domain as in 
mailing_list at sub_domain.ccs135.com?

If you are using a sub-domain, do you have GWIA configured to route said 
sub domain to your Linux host?

> Since I've not worked with a Linux mail server before, what is the 
> procedure, what software do I need, to send and receive e-mail using 
> the Linux server as a regular user just to make sure mail is coming 
> and going or to see where it might be hanging up?  For install, will 
> Thunderbird work, and, if so, how does it need to be configured?  I 
> realize this is very elementary, but it isn't cooperating like 
> Novell's GroupWise or Microsoft's Exchange server.

To start with, make sure that root on the Linux host can send it's self 
mail.  I typically do something like

    'ls' | mail -s "Testing..." root

Note the single quotes around ls to turn off all formatting that may 
mess with the email.

If that does work, try the same type of thing but sending the email to 
an address on the box with the full domain name on it.  I.e.

    'ls' | mail -s "Testing..." root at example.net

If that works, try sending the email to somewhere non local to the system.

These all check "sending" of email, thus testing to make sure that your 
MTA is installed, functional, and running.  If the above tests pass, 
then your problem likely is with routing email back in to the system.

If you can, please give more details about your install as they will 
help in further diagnosing what is going on.



Grant. . . .

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Mar 18 23:04:48 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:04:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FAQ issues - was: How to change the text at the
 bottom of sentmails
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903180830170578d8f82013@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200903180830170578d8f82013@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49C17000.50404@shub-internet.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Hendrik Maryns wrote:
>> For a starters, the bottom of the Digest has
>>
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>>
>> Which redirects to
>>
>> http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Frequently+Asked+Questions
> 
> 
> The msg_footer has the current, short URL <http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3>
> 
> Brad - can you check and fix the digest_footer on the mailman lists.

Fixed.  Thanks!

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From CNulk at scu.edu  Tue Mar 17 22:22:59 2009
From: CNulk at scu.edu (Chris Nulk)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:22:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] LDAP and case-sensitive memberlist
Message-ID: <49BFB241.C780.0050.0@scu.edu>

Hello all,

I have recently set up Mailman v2.1.19 and added the LDAPMemberAdaptor I picked up from

>> See
>> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=871062&group_id=103&atid=300103>.
>> 

I did check the FAQ and search the list for the LDAP stuff.  I configured it as per the docs and it works fine.  When I look at the member list (via Mailman's web interface), all the email addresses are there with proper capitalization (it is how it is defined in our LDAP and I CANNOT change the LDAP entries).

The problem is when anyone sends to the list, their posts are held for moderation because they are not a member of the list.  I have looked at the detailed message source on the moderator's page to view the message source.  It shows the sender's email address with the correct capitalization.  However, Mailman appears to be comparing a lowercase version of the sender's email address to the properly capitalized member list derived from the LDAPMemberAdapter.

Is there a way to force the comparison to be case-insensitive?  Or, modify the LDAPMemberAdaptor to lowercase all the email addresses?

Or, should I subscribe to the Mailman Developers list and repost there?

Thank you for your consideration,

Chris



From ephraim at cse.huji.ac.il  Wed Mar 18 10:42:09 2009
From: ephraim at cse.huji.ac.il (Ephraim Silverberg)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:42:09 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Self-Approval against From Forgeries
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7794.1237367060.11745.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.7794.1237367060.11745.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0903181133240.6799@control.cs.huji.ac.il>

[ Apologies if this has been discussed before -- I couldn't find any mention ]
[ of it in the FAQ.                                                          ]

Certain lists of ours are sensitive and, hence, the members of the list
want to ensure that messages are not sent to the list by an outsider
that forges the From line of a valid list member.

In our previous listserver, there was a "self-approval" mechanism for
such lists -- i.e. when a message arrive purportedly from list member X,
the message would be held and a confirmation request would be sent back
to the address of X requesting that he reply to the confirmation message
if he indeed was the author of the original message.  Only after the
confirmation-reply was received, the original message was sent off to
the entire list.

How can I implement such a self-approval mechanism in Mailman 2.1.11?
___________________________________________________________________________
Ephraim Silverberg, CSE System Group,        Phone number:    972-2-6585521
Hebrew University, Jerusalem, Israel.        Fax number:      972-2-5617723
WWW: http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~ephraim       E-mail: ephraim at cse.huji.ac.il

From harold at uga.edu  Wed Mar 18 04:17:13 2009
From: harold at uga.edu (Harold Pritchett)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 23:17:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving mailman to a new server.
Message-ID: <49C067B9.3080300@uga.edu>

I have read everything I can find about moving mailman lists to a new server.
It all seems so simple...

My case SHOULD be even simpler.

I'm moving from a Fedora 8 linux server to a Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5, both
are the 64 bit versions.  Fedora system is an AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core
Processor 4600+.  The RHEL system is an Intel(R) Xeon(R) QUAD CPU E5405 @ 2.00GHz

After this, it gets pretty similar.  Both installs are the standard RPM installs.
In both cases, mailman directory is /usr/lib/mailman.  Data directory is
/opt/mailman.  This is a symbolic link from /var/lib/mailman.

[root at lists /]# ls -Fla /var/lib/mailman
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12 Feb 23  2008 /var/lib/mailman -> /opt/mailman/

I created a new mailman list on the new server.  I then tarred up the entire
/opt/mailman tree on the old server and restored it on the new server.

On the new server:
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/list_lists now shows ALL 31 of the lists.
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/list_members listname will show the subscribers to any of
the 31 lists.  I can run the command "mail test-l" and the mail is sent to the
test-l list on this server.

My problem:

The web interface only shows the one list I manually created on this server.
Nothing else.

Any ideas???

Help!!!

Harold

From webmaster at rcbitsolutions.com  Tue Mar 17 23:46:09 2009
From: webmaster at rcbitsolutions.com (RCB I.T. Solutions Webmaster)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:46:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Support for Attachments?
Message-ID: <000001c9a752$2bb81150$832833f0$@com>

We are looking into using Mailman to manage out mailing list but one key
necessity is the mailing list must support attachments, and we should be
able to restrict attachments so only certain types of files can be sent
though the mailing list.  Is Mailman capable of this? 

 

 


From webmaster at rcbitsolutions.com  Wed Mar 18 02:06:31 2009
From: webmaster at rcbitsolutions.com (RCB I.T. Solutions Webmaster)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:06:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searchable Archive
Message-ID: <000501c9a765$c7fe7f50$57fb7df0$@com>

What would be the best way to create a searchable archive of all messages on
my server?  Is there a script that works with mailman that does this that
you could recommend? My users will need to search the archive occasionally
and view the mail contents and download any attached files that mailman lets
though.

 

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 19 01:02:55 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:02:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving mailman to a new server.
In-Reply-To: <49C067B9.3080300@uga.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903181702550375aa2b65ee@msapiro>

Harold Pritchett wrote:
>
>My problem:
>
>The web interface only shows the one list I manually created on this server.
>Nothing else.


See FAQ 4.62 at <http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9> and also FAQ 4.29 which
is linked from it for the background.

The short answer is run fix_url.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 19 01:04:27 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:04:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Support for Attachments?
In-Reply-To: <000001c9a752$2bb81150$832833f0$@com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903181704270671aa2b66fa@msapiro>

RCB I.T. Solutions Webmaster wrote:

>We are looking into using Mailman to manage out mailing list but one key
>necessity is the mailing list must support attachments, and we should be
>able to restrict attachments so only certain types of files can be sent
>though the mailing list.  Is Mailman capable of this? 


Yes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Wed Mar 18 01:15:58 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:15:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Self-Approval against From Forgeries
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0903181133240.6799@control.cs.huji.ac.il>
References: <mailman.7794.1237367060.11745.mailman-users@python.org>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0903181133240.6799@control.cs.huji.ac.il>
Message-ID: <49C03D3E.8090801@riverviewtech.net>

Ephraim Silverberg wrote:
> Certain lists of ours are sensitive and, hence, the members of the 
> list want to ensure that messages are not sent to the list by an 
> outsider that forges the From line of a valid list member.

Ok...

Question:  Why not look in to implementing (and requesting that members
do too or provide an alternate email for this purpose) something like
SPF and / or Domain Keys.  If you run either or both filters and your
subscribers publish records, it will be very difficult for messages to
be spoofed.

> In our previous listserver, there was a "self-approval" mechanism for 
> such lists -- i.e. when a message arrive purportedly from list member 
> X, the message would be held and a confirmation request would be sent 
> back to the address of X requesting that he reply to the confirmation 
> message if he indeed was the author of the original message.  Only 
> after the confirmation-reply was received, the original message was 
> sent off to the entire list.

Interesting concept.  It sounds a bit like challenge / response that
never remembers beyond the message in question.

> How can I implement such a self-approval mechanism in Mailman 2.1.11?

I don't believe there is any thing like that in Mailman.  The closest
thing that comes to mind would be some sort of moderation that requires
approval and having the moderator email address by dynamic to the
purported sender of the message(s) in question.



Grant. . . .

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 19 01:32:32 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:32:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] LDAP and case-sensitive memberlist
In-Reply-To: <49BFB241.C780.0050.0@scu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC18702009031817323207506136840e@msapiro>



----- Original Message ---------------

Subject: [Mailman-Users] LDAP and case-sensitive memberlist
   From: "Chris Nulk" <CNulk at scu.edu>
   Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:22:59 -0700
     To: <mailman-users at python.org>

>Hello all,
>
>I have recently set up Mailman v2.1.19 and added the LDAPMemberAdaptor I picked up from
>
>>> See
>>> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=871062&group_id=103&atid=300103>.
>>> 
>
>I did check the FAQ and search the list for the LDAP stuff.  I configured it as per the docs and it works fine.  When I look at the member list (via Mailman's web interface), all the email addresses are there with proper capitalization (it is how it is defined in our LDAP and I CANNOT change the LDAP entries).
>
>The problem is when anyone sends to the list, their posts are held for moderation because they are not a member of the list.  I have looked at the detailed message source on the moderator's page to view the message source.  It shows the sender's email address with the correct capitalization.  However, Mailman appears to be comparing a lowercase version of the sender's email address to the properly capitalized member list derived from the LDAPMemberAdapter.
>
>Is there a way to force the comparison to be case-insensitive?  Or, modify the LDAPMemberAdaptor to lowercase all the email addresses?


This particular member adaptor assumes all email addresses in the LDAP
database are lower case. Mailman itself has the concept of a "case
preserved email" (CPE) and a "lower case email" (LCE) It uses the LCE
as the key to look up a CPE or to verify if an LCE is a member. The
member adaptor you are using doesn't distinguish between LCE and CPE
and it only works if the email addresses in the LDAP database are
lower case.

In order to fix it, you would first need to have a way of finding the
correct record in the LDAP database given only the LCE as a key. Since
the member adaptor seems (via its __ldap_load_members() method) to
keep all the list member emails in memory anyway, you could augment
that method to build another dictionary with LCE as key and CPE as
data and use that.

Then you would need to modify the member adaptor to do what it's
supposed to do. It seems to preserve the doc strings which define what
the methods should do. You'd just need to make them do that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 19 01:42:02 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:42:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Self-Approval against From Forgeries
In-Reply-To: <49C03D3E.8090801@riverviewtech.net>
Message-ID: <PC187020090318174202001561368111@msapiro>

Grant Taylor wrote:

>Ephraim Silverberg wrote:
>
>> How can I implement such a self-approval mechanism in Mailman 2.1.11?
>
>I don't believe there is any thing like that in Mailman.  The closest
>thing that comes to mind would be some sort of moderation that requires
>approval and having the moderator email address by dynamic to the
>purported sender of the message(s) in question.


Actually, Mailman is pretty close already. If you moderate everyone and
set respond_to_post_requests to yes, each post will be held and the
user will get an email with a confirmation token. The thing that's
lacking is this confirmation only allows the user to cancel the post
or continue to wait for moderator approval, but you could modify the
confirmation process to allow the user to approve the post if the
reason it is held is moderation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Thu Mar 19 02:16:39 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 01:16:39 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Self-Approval against From Forgeries
In-Reply-To: <49C03D3E.8090801@riverviewtech.net>
References: <mailman.7794.1237367060.11745.mailman-users@python.org>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0903181133240.6799@control.cs.huji.ac.il>
	<49C03D3E.8090801@riverviewtech.net>
Message-ID: <20090319011636.GB4537@amyl.org.uk>

On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 07:15:58PM -0500, Grant Taylor wrote:
> Ephraim Silverberg wrote:
> > Certain lists of ours are sensitive and, hence, the members of the 
> > list want to ensure that messages are not sent to the list by an 
> > outsider that forges the From line of a valid list member.
> 
> Ok...
> 
> Question:  Why not look in to implementing (and requesting that members
> do too or provide an alternate email for this purpose) something like
> SPF and / or Domain Keys.  If you run either or both filters and your
> subscribers publish records, it will be very difficult for messages to
> be spoofed.

Or, perhaps, just use gpg/pgp.

(I'm not a fan of SPF)

-- 
``Nothing says `unprofessional job' like wrinkles in duct tape.''
  (seen on the Internet)

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 19 02:49:31 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 18:49:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving mailman to a new server.
In-Reply-To: <49C1A021.1000903@uga.edu>
Message-ID: <PC18702009031818493104210f58ef84@msapiro>

Harold Pritchett wrote:
>
>Thanks...  An even shorter answer is VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off
>
>I'm not using virtual hosts.


But you still need to run fix_url because otherwise you will be
exposing URLs with the old host name, and if your Mailman version is
pre 2.1.12 (the first version in which relative web page URLs actually
worked), all the links on the web interface and the POST actions will
still point to the old host.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 19 02:57:45 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 18:57:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searchable Archive
In-Reply-To: <000501c9a765$c7fe7f50$57fb7df0$@com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903181857450093ea22a68a@msapiro>

RCB I.T. Solutions Webmaster wrote:

>What would be the best way to create a searchable archive of all messages on
>my server?  Is there a script that works with mailman that does this that
>you could recommend? My users will need to search the archive occasionally
>and view the mail contents and download any attached files that mailman lets
>though.


Most everything we know is in the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/MoA9>.

Personally, I use ht://Dig in conjunction with Richard Barrett's
patches to put a search form on the archive Table of Contents and
integrate with ht://Dig.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Tlf1 at ccs135.com  Thu Mar 19 03:17:50 2009
From: Tlf1 at ccs135.com (Tim Ferguson)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:17:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Incoming Mail No
Message-ID: <49C164FE020000BD00014F21@mail.ccs135.com>


This is the message I continue to receive when trying to send a post to the list..... 

Tim


Tim Ferguson
Director of Technology
Centralia City Schools
Centralia, Illinois 62801
618-532-1907, Ext. 1030




>>> On 3/18/2009 at  9:14 PM, CCS135_D.GWIA.GATEWAY wrote:



The message that you sent has been delayed.

The reason given for the delay:
450 Host down (hearye.ccs135.com)

Information about your message:
Subject: Special Announcement
GroupWise Message Id: 49C1AA79.72D:189:6866
Message log tag: 1135103
Number of send attempts: 1
Time of initial send attempt: 03-18-09 21:14:37

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 19 03:26:13 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 19:26:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Incoming Mail No
In-Reply-To: <49C164FE020000BD00014F21@mail.ccs135.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009031819261301250f43fcca@msapiro>

Tim Ferguson wrote:
>
>This is the message I continue to receive when trying to send a post to the list..... 
>
>Tim
>
>
>Tim Ferguson
>Director of Technology
>Centralia City Schools
>Centralia, Illinois 62801
>618-532-1907, Ext. 1030
>
>
>
>
>>>> On 3/18/2009 at  9:14 PM, CCS135_D.GWIA.GATEWAY wrote:
>
>
>
>The message that you sent has been delayed.
>
>The reason given for the delay:
>450 Host down (hearye.ccs135.com)


There is nothing listening on port 25 at hearye.ccs135.com. Do you have
an MTA running on that machine? Is it configured to listen on port 25?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Wed Mar 18 03:28:21 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:28:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Incoming Mail No
In-Reply-To: <49C164FE020000BD00014F21@mail.ccs135.com>
References: <49C164FE020000BD00014F21@mail.ccs135.com>
Message-ID: <49C05C45.50800@riverviewtech.net>

Tim Ferguson wrote:
> This is the message I continue to receive when trying to send a post 
> to the list.....

I don't know if you have a firewall in between the Hearye and the world
or not, but form the internets (and I believe GWIA's) perspective Hearye
is not listing to port 25 on it's 209.174.197.37 IP.

Please make sure that Postfix is configured to bind to port 25 on
209.174.197.37.



Grant. . . .

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Mar 19 04:49:18 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 12:49:18 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Incoming Mail No
In-Reply-To: <49C164FE020000BD00014F21@mail.ccs135.com>
References: <49C164FE020000BD00014F21@mail.ccs135.com>
Message-ID: <87ocvy5g01.fsf@xemacs.org>

Tim Ferguson writes:

 > This is the message I continue to receive when trying to send a
 > post to the list.....

 > The message that you sent has been delayed.
 > 
 > The reason given for the delay:
 > 450 Host down (hearye.ccs135.com)

This looks highly unlikely to be a Mailman problem, nor an MTA
problem.  If Mailman were broken, the post would bounce back ("no such
mailbox" or the like) or just disappear (and you would eventually find
it in Mailman's queue).

If the MTA were down, you'd get "connection refused".  If it were
broken, the post would just disappear, to be found in the MTA's queue.

Start by checking for a network problem.  Is the host plugged in to
the network?  Is its IP address the one that DNS assigns to hearye?
Is that interface "up"?  Is there a route from the GroupWise host to
the Linux host?  Is it correct?  What about firewalls?  Many
organizations have firewalls that filter port 25 to all but a few
registered MXes.

BTW, this is not the place to get additional help until you have
confirmed that Mailman is visible to the world outside of the Linux
host.  For general network problems and Linux advice, I strongly
recommend getting in touch with your local Linux Users Group (or Unix
or *BSD Users Group).  LUG members are by and large happy to provide
concrete advice, and (if your organization permits) even free hands-on
diagnosis at off hours (well, not quite free, usual fee is pizza and
beer ;-).


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 19 05:20:15 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:20:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving mailman to a new server.
In-Reply-To: <49C1C448.8000206@uga.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903182120150218eb707029@msapiro>

Harold Pritchett wrote:
>
>This is strange.  Setting VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW works.  Running fix_url
>doesn't.  Here's the output of withlist -l -r fix_url test-l -v
>
>> [root at calserv bin]# ./withlist -l -r fix_url test-l -v
>> Importing fix_url...
>> Running fix_url.fix_url()...
>> Loading list test-l (locked)
>> Setting web_page_url to: http://calserv.calconnect.org/mailman/
>> Setting host_name to: calserv.calconnect.org
>> Saving list
>> Finalizing
>> [root at calserv bin]# 
>
>and it still doesn't show up in the web list of lists...



It will if you go to http://calserv.calconnect.org/mailman/listinfo

>Here's the active part of my mm_cfg.py:
>
>> # Default to using the FQDN of machine mailman is running on.
>> # If this is not correct for your installation delete the following 5
>> # lines that acquire the FQDN and manually edit the hosts instead.
>> 
>> DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'xxx.yyy.org'
>> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'xxx.yyy.org'
>> 
>> # Because we've overriden the virtual hosts above add_virtualhost
>> # MUST be called after they have been defined.
>> 
>> VIRTUAL_HOSTS = {}


No No No !!!

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()

Otherwise what happens is mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOSTS becomes this new, empty
dictionary, but


>> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)


add_virtualhost() which was defined in Defaults.py adds to
Defaults.VIRTUAL_HOST and that is no longer the same as
mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOSTS.


>The linux "hostname" command returns the same name (xxx.yyy.org)
>
>Is there some way to actually display the names that mailman thinks
>are the host names and to dump the internal names within the lists?


bin/withlist LISTNAME
...
...
>>> from Mailman import mm_cfg
>>> mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOSTS
(display of dictionary)
>>> m.web_page_url
(display of list's web_page_url attribute)
>>>     control-D to quit


>Could this be a problem with SELINUX??
>
>Harold
>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Wed Mar 18 05:34:50 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 23:34:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Incoming Mail No
In-Reply-To: <87ocvy5g01.fsf@xemacs.org>
References: <49C164FE020000BD00014F21@mail.ccs135.com>
	<87ocvy5g01.fsf@xemacs.org>
Message-ID: <49C079EA.60809@riverviewtech.net>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> If the MTA were down, you'd get "connection refused".  If it were 
> broken, the post would just disappear, to be found in the MTA's 
> queue.

After sending some emails back and forth with the OP, including some
from the Linux / Mailman host in question, I believe the problem to be a
mis-configuration with the OP's MTA.

It appears (according to headers) as if the OP is using fetchmail to
pull messages out of a POP3 mail box on the GroupWise system and then
injecting them via SMTP to the Linux / Mailman host.  Postfix is then
performing some expansion and messing up the delivery (hence the
bounce(s) that I have received) and bouncing messages.

As such I can be sure that Postfix is running on the Linux / Mailman
host and that it knows how to send messages out to the world.

I can also be sure that based on the contents of the DSN

   <mailman at localhost.ccs135.com> (expanded from <mailman at localhost>)

That something, likely Postfix, is not configured properly on the Linux
/ Maiman host.

> Start by checking for a network problem.  Is the host plugged in to 
> the network?  Is its IP address the one that DNS assigns to hearye? 
>  Is that interface "up"?  Is there a route from the GroupWise host to 
> the Linux host?  Is it correct?  What about firewalls?  Many 
> organizations have firewalls that filter port 25 to all but a few 
> registered MXes.

There may or may not be a firewall between the Linux / Mailman host, but
seeing as how the OP is using fetchmail to retrieve messages from
GroupWise, it does not really matter if the world can reach the Linux /
Mailman host in question or not.

Though, for email to function, there really does need to be an email
server that is willing to accept email for the addresses that the Linux
/ Mailman host is sending out as.  In this case, GroupWise is doing just
fine.

> BTW, this is not the place to get additional help until you have 
> confirmed that Mailman is visible to the world outside of the Linux 
> host.  For general network problems and Linux advice, I strongly 
> recommend getting in touch with your local Linux Users Group (or Unix 
> or *BSD Users Group).  LUG members are by and large happy to provide 
> concrete advice, and (if your organization permits) even free 
> hands-on diagnosis at off hours (well, not quite free, usual fee is 
> pizza and beer ;-).

Agreed.



Grant. . . .

From harold at uga.edu  Thu Mar 19 02:30:09 2009
From: harold at uga.edu (Harold Pritchett)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:30:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving mailman to a new server.
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903181702550375aa2b65ee@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200903181702550375aa2b65ee@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49C1A021.1000903@uga.edu>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Harold Pritchett wrote:
>> My problem:
>>
>> The web interface only shows the one list I manually created on this server.
>> Nothing else.
> 
> 
> See FAQ 4.62 at <http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9> and also FAQ 4.29 which
> is linked from it for the background.
> 
> The short answer is run fix_url.

Thanks...  An even shorter answer is VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off

I'm not using virtual hosts.

Harold

From harold at uga.edu  Thu Mar 19 05:04:24 2009
From: harold at uga.edu (Harold Pritchett)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 00:04:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving mailman to a new server.
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009031818493104210f58ef84@msapiro>
References: <PC18702009031818493104210f58ef84@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49C1C448.8000206@uga.edu>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Harold Pritchett wrote:
>> Thanks...  An even shorter answer is VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off
>>
>> I'm not using virtual hosts.
> 
> 
> But you still need to run fix_url because otherwise you will be
> exposing URLs with the old host name, and if your Mailman version is
> pre 2.1.12 (the first version in which relative web page URLs actually
> worked), all the links on the web interface and the POST actions will
> still point to the old host.

This is strange.  Setting VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW works.  Running fix_url
doesn't.  Here's the output of withlist -l -r fix_url test-l -v

> [root at calserv bin]# ./withlist -l -r fix_url test-l -v
> Importing fix_url...
> Running fix_url.fix_url()...
> Loading list test-l (locked)
> Setting web_page_url to: http://calserv.calconnect.org/mailman/
> Setting host_name to: calserv.calconnect.org
> Saving list
> Finalizing
> [root at calserv bin]# 

and it still doesn't show up in the web list of lists...

Here's the active part of my mm_cfg.py:

> # Default to using the FQDN of machine mailman is running on.
> # If this is not correct for your installation delete the following 5
> # lines that acquire the FQDN and manually edit the hosts instead.
> 
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'xxx.yyy.org'
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'xxx.yyy.org'
> 
> # Because we've overriden the virtual hosts above add_virtualhost
> # MUST be called after they have been defined.
> 
> VIRTUAL_HOSTS = {}
> 
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

The linux "hostname" command returns the same name (xxx.yyy.org)

Is there some way to actually display the names that mailman thinks
are the host names and to dump the internal names within the lists?

Could this be a problem with SELINUX??

Harold



From kaerast at qvox.org  Thu Mar 19 12:05:50 2009
From: kaerast at qvox.org (=?UTF-8?Q?K=C3=A6rast?=)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 11:05:50 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Self-Approval against From Forgeries
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0903181133240.6799@control.cs.huji.ac.il>
References: <mailman.7794.1237367060.11745.mailman-users@python.org>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0903181133240.6799@control.cs.huji.ac.il>
Message-ID: <20090319110550.1361d6ee@bennet>

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:42:09 +0200 (IST)
Ephraim Silverberg <ephraim at cse.huji.ac.il> wrote:

> Certain lists of ours are sensitive and, hence, the members of the
> list want to ensure that messages are not sent to the list by an
> outsider that forges the From line of a valid list member.
> 

Actually, there is another option which I'm surprised hasn't been
mentioned yet.  If the list is sensitive then presumably everybody on
the list is trusted enough to have the password, in which case you
could just get people posting to the list to include an approved
header or the line Approved: [password] in the first line.

Mark wrote:

> If you are trying to send a post to the list which might otherwise be
> held, you can also include an Approved: line as the first body line.
> In this case, it is trickier, because the message will go to the list
> and if it is multipart/alternative with an html part, the Approved:
> line won't be removed from the html part. So you have to set OE before
> composing the message to send plain text. This is Tools->Options->Send
> tab, Mail Sending Format - Plain Text. You also have to follow the
> Approved: line with a blank line because current Mailman versions
> remove both the Approved: line and the first remaining line.

-- 
Alice

From harold at uga.edu  Thu Mar 19 15:05:51 2009
From: harold at uga.edu (Harold Pritchett)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:05:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving mailman to a new server.
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903182120150218eb707029@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200903182120150218eb707029@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49C2513F.6090100@uga.edu>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Harold Pritchett wrote:
>> This is strange.  Setting VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW works.  Running fix_url
>> doesn't.  Here's the output of withlist -l -r fix_url test-l -v
>>
>>> [root at calserv bin]# ./withlist -l -r fix_url test-l -v
>>> Importing fix_url...
>>> Running fix_url.fix_url()...
>>> Loading list test-l (locked)
>>> Setting web_page_url to: http://calserv.calconnect.org/mailman/
>>> Setting host_name to: calserv.calconnect.org
>>> Saving list
>>> Finalizing
>>> [root at calserv bin]# 
>> and it still doesn't show up in the web list of lists...
> 
> 
> 
> It will if you go to http://calserv.calconnect.org/mailman/listinfo

No, it didn't.  However, I went ahead and ran fix_url on ALL of my lists
and now all of them except the test-l list do show up in on the listinfo
page.

Now for the completely stupid part...  The test-l list is a hidden list and
should not appear on the listinfo page!!!!!  Sound of hand hitting forehead!
Doh!!!

Sorry for all of the confusion.  I totally forgot that that list was different
from the rest.

Harold

From roberto.gherardi at gmail.com  Thu Mar 19 15:16:00 2009
From: roberto.gherardi at gmail.com (Roberto Gherardi de Candei)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:16:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe and unsubscribe notification
Message-ID: <584954160903190716o4c5bb435p63ebc9178f71a85a@mail.gmail.com>

Hy,

I have to put behind a mailman portal, how can I prevent the confirmation of
mailman and immediately put the users?

Many thanks

-- 
RGdC

From lida_mail at 163.com  Thu Mar 19 15:56:24 2009
From: lida_mail at 163.com (Daniel.Li)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 22:56:24 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to gzip archives?
Message-ID: <1237474584.8590.3.camel@daniel-laptop>

Dear List,

I have checked http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Frequently+Asked
+Questions,  and I didn't find any clue on gzip the archives.
Cause Downloadable version is TXT. see
http://palfocus.oicp.net/pipermail/mailman/ 

How can I configure this TXT to gzip ro bz2 format?

Any hint or link will be mostly appreciated. Thanks.

-- 
Daniel.Li <lida_mail at 163.com>
PALFocus (http://palfocus.oicp.net)



From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Thu Mar 19 17:00:00 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 11:00:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to gzip archives?
In-Reply-To: <1237474584.8590.3.camel@daniel-laptop>
References: <1237474584.8590.3.camel@daniel-laptop>
Message-ID: <49C26C00.6000503@riverviewtech.net>

On 03/19/09 09:56, Daniel.Li wrote:
> How can I configure this TXT to gzip ro bz2 format?

I don't know how your list archiver (Pipermail or otherwise) will 
interact with it, but you should simply be able to go in an periodically 
gzip the files.  Apache natively supports serving up gziped content to 
clients, but I don't know about bzip2.

However I would question if the reclaimed space is worth the effort as 
you will be putting extra load on your server(s) and given the costs of 
drive space these days...



Grant. . . .

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 19 17:21:52 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 09:21:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to gzip archives?
In-Reply-To: <1237474584.8590.3.camel@daniel-laptop>
Message-ID: <PC187020090319092152025012a946ee@msapiro>

Daniel.Li wrote:
>
>I have checked http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Frequently+Asked
>+Questions,  and I didn't find any clue on gzip the archives.
>Cause Downloadable version is TXT. see
>http://palfocus.oicp.net/pipermail/mailman/ 
>
>How can I configure this TXT to gzip ro bz2 format?


Are you running Mailman's cron jobs? The suggested crontab contains

# At 3:27am every night, regenerate the gzip'd archive file.  Only
# turn this on if the internal archiver is used and
# GZIP_ARCHIVE_TXT_FILES is false in mm_cfg.py
27 3 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /cygdrive/f/test-mailman/cron/nightly_gzip


Or, with extra overhead, you can set

GZIP_ARCHIVE_TXT_FILES = Yes

in mm_cfg.py to gzip the .txt file after every post.

Note however that either of these is a waste, at least the way Mailman
does it. Mailman keeps both the .txt and the .txt.gz files so if you
gzip the .txt files, you actually use more space than if you just keep
the .txt files. The only potential savings is bandwidth when a user
retrieves the .txt.gz file, but this is minimal and in some cases, the
web server will expand the file before serving it anyway.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Thu Mar 19 17:19:27 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 11:19:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to gzip archives?
In-Reply-To: <49C26C00.6000503@riverviewtech.net>
References: <1237474584.8590.3.camel@daniel-laptop>
	<49C26C00.6000503@riverviewtech.net>
Message-ID: <49C2708F.5010805@riverviewtech.net>

On 03/19/09 11:00, Taylor, Grant wrote:
> However I would question if the reclaimed space is worth the effort as 
> you will be putting extra load on your server(s) and given the costs of 
> drive space these days...

I guess if you use a compression mechanism that HTTP supports (I think 
GZip is one) *AND* the client supports it you /may/ be able to send the 
compressed contents to the end user and have their user agent decompress 
the contents.  However all of these things have to be in place for this 
bandwidth savings to happen and if it doesn't, there is the added load 
on the processor.



Grant. . . .

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 19 17:26:01 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 09:26:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe and unsubscribe notification
In-Reply-To: <584954160903190716o4c5bb435p63ebc9178f71a85a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020090319092601089012a9493b@msapiro>

Roberto Gherardi de Candei wrote:
>
>I have to put behind a mailman portal, how can I prevent the confirmation of
>mailman and immediately put the users?


Set

ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = Yes

in mm_cfg.py and then Privacy options... -> Subscription rules - >
subscribe_policy will offer that option.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hamaryns at googlemail.com  Thu Mar 19 17:50:22 2009
From: hamaryns at googlemail.com (Hendrik Maryns)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 17:50:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FAQ issues - was: How to change the text at the
 bottom of sentmails
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903180830170578d8f82013@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200903180830170578d8f82013@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49C277CE.4090904@googlemail.com>

Op 18-03-09 16:30 heeft Mark Sapiro als volgt van zich laten horen:
> Hendrik Maryns wrote:
>> Also, it says "They're organized
>> into several sections: click on each section to view the questions for
>> that section, or use the "View in Hierarchy" link to see them all listed
>> in a tree." which is simply not true.
> 
> 
> What's not true? It works for me.

Ah, now it all makes sense: those links are section headers.  Simply
looking at the page gives the impression there are only 6 questions
answered.  Confluence really is confusing here.

I apologize for the confusion, but maybe, to prevent other people
overlooking, you could mention that one should click one of the links to
get to the detailed answers.  It says ?They're organized into several
sections: click on each section to view the questions for that section?,
but I didn?t understand the links under ?Children? where supposed to be
those sections.  It is Confluence which makes life hard.  So maybe you
could rephrase this like ?They're organized into several sections: click
on each section (below the ?Children? header) to view the questions for
that section?

Cheers, H.

-- 
Opgepast | Achtung | Attention
adressen gewijzigd!
Adressen ge?ndert!
adresses changed!

Hendrik Maryns
Biesingerstra?e 5
D-72070 T?bingen
+491753353494
hamaryns at googlemail.com
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/


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From jbernier at risd.edu  Thu Mar 19 17:51:55 2009
From: jbernier at risd.edu (Jeff Bernier)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 12:51:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] File/directory permissions in Mailman
In-Reply-To: <49AFE9600200000A000367E0@risd.edu>
References: <49AFE9600200000A000367E0@risd.edu>
Message-ID: <49C23FEB.7696.00CA.3@risd.edu>

When I run the check_perms command, I get the following result:

Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
         This could allow other users on your system to read private archives.
         If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
         installation manual on how to fix this.

I correct this, but If I come back and run the command again, say, after restarting the Mailman server, the warning reappears.

In addition to this, as new messages are archived and their associated files and directories are created, I see results like the example below if I again run the check_perms command:

directory permissions must be 02775: /private/var/mailman/archives/private/list-name/attachments/20090319

Running check_perms -f fixes it, but the very next time a message is archived, this permissions error condition occurs again.
I am using a graphical SSH utility called WinSCP to make these changes. Could this be part of my problem?

Mailman 2.1.9 on Mac OS X Server 10.5.6

Any help is appreciated.

-Jeff 




Jeff Bernier
eMail Administrator
Office of Information Technology
Rhode Island School of Design
401.454.6168

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 19 18:10:52 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:10:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] File/directory permissions in Mailman
In-Reply-To: <49C23FEB.7696.00CA.3@risd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC18702009031910105206095b9e2b95@msapiro>

Jeff Bernier wrote:

>When I run the check_perms command, I get the following result:
>
>Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
>         This could allow other users on your system to read private archives.
>         If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
>         installation manual on how to fix this.
>
>I correct this, but If I come back and run the command again, say, after restarting the Mailman server, the warning reappears.


Do not "correct" this without reading and understanding the warning at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node9.html>.


>In addition to this, as new messages are archived and their associated files and directories are created, I see results like the example below if I again run the check_perms command:
>
>directory permissions must be 02775: /private/var/mailman/archives/private/list-name/attachments/20090319


And what are the permissions on the newly created directories before
you change them?

Is the /private/var/mailman/archives/private/list-name/attachments/
directory SETGID?


>Running check_perms -f fixes it, but the very next time a message is archived, this permissions error condition occurs again.
>I am using a graphical SSH utility called WinSCP to make these changes. Could this be part of my problem?


Could be, but probably not. If you are actually interacting with a
shell, it shouldn't matter how you got there.


>Mailman 2.1.9 on Mac OS X Server 10.5.6


Did you install this Mailman from source, or is it Apple's Mailman. If
it is Apple's, you may need to go there for help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 19 21:04:12 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:04:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] LDAP and case-sensitive memberlist
In-Reply-To: <49C272E4.4040002@scu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC187020090319130412064077d6b80c@msapiro>

C Nulk wrote:
>
>Is there anyway to modify the member adaptor to make sure everything it
>stores in memory is lowercase when it loads via __ldap_load_members()?
>And when it comes to the checking if an address is member, convert it to
>lowercase prior to checking?  Since everything should be in lowercase,
>it should find if an address is a member or not.
>
>Alternatively, if you, or anyone else, would like to take this offline
>and help me make the changes, I will do changes and testing and once
>working, post the code back to the list.


You could try the following. I haven't studied the member adaptor in
detail to be certain it will work, but I think it's worth a try.

In the definition of __ldap_load_members(self), you will see these two
lines

            for maddr in attrs['mail']:
                self.__member_map[maddr.strip()] = mail


They are indented with tabs which is not good, but it will be OK as
long as you preserve the existing tabs. I have replaced the tabs with
some spaces for this email, but what you need to do is just insert the
string '.lower()' in the second line so it becomes

                self.__member_map[maddr.strip().lower()] = mail

without changing the tabbing.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lida_mail at 163.com  Fri Mar 20 01:00:35 2009
From: lida_mail at 163.com (Daniel.Li)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 08:00:35 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to gzip archives?
In-Reply-To: <49C2708F.5010805@riverviewtech.net>
References: <1237474584.8590.3.camel@daniel-laptop>
	<49C26C00.6000503@riverviewtech.net>
	<49C2708F.5010805@riverviewtech.net>
Message-ID: <1237507235.8590.33.camel@daniel-laptop>

On Thu, 2009-03-19 at 11:19 -0500, Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 03/19/09 11:00, Taylor, Grant wrote:
> > However I would question if the reclaimed space is worth the effort as 
> > you will be putting extra load on your server(s) and given the costs of 
> > drive space these days...
> 
> I guess if you use a compression mechanism that HTTP supports (I think 
> GZip is one) *AND* the client supports it you /may/ be able to send the 
> compressed contents to the end user and have their user agent decompress 
> the contents.  However all of these things have to be in place for this 
> bandwidth savings to happen and if it doesn't, there is the added load 
> on the processor.

Yeah, cause bandwidth is limited to 1Mbit/s. 

And as u said, it is worth to add load on processor. I'm NOT sure how to
estimate how much bandwidth can be freed from this option.

My case:
1) I don't have many mail list users right now.
2) main bandwidth is occupied by FTP/http/Git,CVS repositoy.
3) There are 5 laptop, accessing internet with this router.

Any suggestion on this gzip option? Should I use this option right now?
> 
> 
> 
> Grant. . . .
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lida_mail%40163.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
-- 
Daniel.Li <lida_mail at 163.com>
PALFocus (http://palfocus.oicp.net)



From lida_mail at 163.com  Fri Mar 20 01:07:20 2009
From: lida_mail at 163.com (Daniel.Li)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 08:07:20 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to gzip archives?
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090319092152025012a946ee@msapiro>
References: <PC187020090319092152025012a946ee@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1237507640.8590.39.camel@daniel-laptop>

On Thu, 2009-03-19 at 09:21 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Are you running Mailman's cron jobs? The suggested crontab contains
> 
> # At 3:27am every night, regenerate the gzip'd archive file.  Only
> # turn this on if the internal archiver is used and
> # GZIP_ARCHIVE_TXT_FILES is false in mm_cfg.py
> 27 3 * * * /usr/bin/python
> -S /cygdrive/f/test-mailman/cron/nightly_gzip
> 
> 
> Or, with extra overhead, you can set
> 
> GZIP_ARCHIVE_TXT_FILES = Yes
> 
> in mm_cfg.py to gzip the .txt file after every post.
> 
> Note however that either of these is a waste, at least the way Mailman
> does it. Mailman keeps both the .txt and the .txt.gz files so if you
> gzip the .txt files, you actually use more space than if you just keep
> the .txt files. The only potential savings is bandwidth when a user
> retrieves the .txt.gz file, but this is minimal and in some cases, the
> web server will expand the file before serving it anyway.

Hmm... I have mailed another mail which gives my scenario. I paster here
FYI.

As Grant Taylor said, there is a leverage. And from above explanation, I
have to figure out how much bandwidth we could save if we have large
list users.
Let take 1000 user for example, how can I estimate the bandwidth I
saved?

> My case:
> 1) I don't have many mail list users right now.
> 2) main bandwidth is occupied by FTP/http/Git,CVS repositoy.
> 3) There are 5 laptop, accessing internet with this router.
-- 
Daniel.Li <lida_mail at 163.com>
PALFocus (http://palfocus.oicp.net)



From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Fri Mar 20 01:30:00 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:30:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to gzip archives?
In-Reply-To: <1237507640.8590.39.camel@daniel-laptop>
References: <PC187020090319092152025012a946ee@msapiro>
	<1237507640.8590.39.camel@daniel-laptop>
Message-ID: <49C2E388.8070200@riverviewtech.net>

On 3/19/2009 7:07 PM, Daniel.Li wrote:
> Let take 1000 user for example, how can I estimate the bandwidth I 
> saved?

Remember that the web server's use of compression will only effect the 
amount of bandwidth saved by transferring a compressed verses 
uncompressed copy of the archive when someone goes and views the 
archive.  I don't think you will see much of (if any) gain at all when 
actually sending email.



Grant. . . .

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 20 02:10:33 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:10:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to gzip archives?
In-Reply-To: <1237507640.8590.39.camel@daniel-laptop>
Message-ID: <PC18702009031918103301717c74d78c@msapiro>

Daniel.Li wrote:
>
>As Grant Taylor said, there is a leverage. And from above explanation, I
>have to figure out how much bandwidth we could save if we have large
>list users.
>Let take 1000 user for example, how can I estimate the bandwidth I
>saved?


First you have to estimate how many users will actually download any
.txt or .txt.gz file. Some users will never visit the archive. Of the
rest, the vast majority of accesses will be for the various HTML table
of contents, index and message files.

As an example, on my largest list (about 400 members) over the last
month there were 5714 web accesses of archive pages for that list. 11
of these (<0.2%) were for .txt files.

In other words, you aren't going to save much. You would be much much
better off using mod_deflate (in apache) to compress all data sent to
clients that request it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Fri Mar 20 02:48:25 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 20:48:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to gzip archives?
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009031918103301717c74d78c@msapiro>
References: <PC18702009031918103301717c74d78c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49C2F5E9.70205@riverviewtech.net>

On 3/19/2009 8:10 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> In other words, you aren't going to save much. You would be much much 
> better off using mod_deflate (in apache) to compress all data sent to 
> clients that request it.

I'm thinking that this may be what the OP was really after even if he 
accidentally stumbled on the fact that Apache can decompress contents 
from disk.



Grant. . . .

From hamaryns at googlemail.com  Fri Mar 20 09:12:48 2009
From: hamaryns at googlemail.com (Hendrik Maryns)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:12:48 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-ASCII signs in welcome text
Message-ID: <49C35000.6060509@googlemail.com>

Dear all,

I just started a new mailing list with Mailman.  The welcome_msg is in
German and contains ???.  Then I subscribed myself to the list and got
the following:

Hall&#246;chen, Beitr&#228;ge erw&#252;nscht, aber &#252;bertreibt es
nicht, ne.

Furthermore, if I know log into the admin area, it gives the same text,
that is, with all non-ASCII replaced by entities!

Another bug to file?!

H.
-- 
Opgepast | Achtung | Attention
adressen gewijzigd!
Adressen ge?ndert!
adresses changed!

Hendrik Maryns
Biesingerstra?e 5
D-72070 T?bingen
+491753353494
hamaryns at googlemail.com
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/


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From lida_mail at 163.com  Fri Mar 20 12:18:52 2009
From: lida_mail at 163.com (Daniel.Li)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:18:52 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to gzip archives?
In-Reply-To: <49C2F5E9.70205@riverviewtech.net>
References: <PC18702009031918103301717c74d78c@msapiro>
	<49C2F5E9.70205@riverviewtech.net>
Message-ID: <1237547932.6861.18.camel@daniel-laptop>

On Thu, 2009-03-19 at 20:48 -0500, Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 3/19/2009 8:10 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> > In other words, you aren't going to save much. You would be much much 
> > better off using mod_deflate (in apache) to compress all data sent to 
> > clients that request it.
> 
> I'm thinking that this may be what the OP was really after even if he 
> accidentally stumbled on the fact that Apache can decompress contents 
> from disk.

I think mod_deflate is a good way to start.

I plan to use some software to moniter the bandwidth and check the real
usage of the server. And then do some optimization. Well, Let's wait and
see.

Then, I think it'll be much more reasonable to act on those collected
data. 

Thanks :)
> 
> 
> 
> Grant. . . .
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lida_mail%40163.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
-- 
Daniel.Li <lida_mail at 163.com>
PALFocus (http://palfocus.oicp.net)



From CNulk at scu.edu  Thu Mar 19 17:29:24 2009
From: CNulk at scu.edu (C Nulk)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 09:29:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] LDAP and case-sensitive memberlist
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009031817323207506136840e@msapiro>
References: <PC18702009031817323207506136840e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49C272E4.4040002@scu.edu>



Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message ---------------
> 
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] LDAP and case-sensitive memberlist
>    From: "Chris Nulk" <CNulk at scu.edu>
>    Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:22:59 -0700
>      To: <mailman-users at python.org>
> 
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I have recently set up Mailman v2.1.19 and added the LDAPMemberAdaptor I picked up from
>>
>>>> See
>>>> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=871062&group_id=103&atid=300103>.
>>>>
>> I did check the FAQ and search the list for the LDAP stuff.  I configured it as per the docs and it works fine.  When I look at the member list (via Mailman's web interface), all the email addresses are there with proper capitalization (it is how it is defined in our LDAP and I CANNOT change the LDAP entries).
>>
>> The problem is when anyone sends to the list, their posts are held for moderation because they are not a member of the list.  I have looked at the detailed message source on the moderator's page to view the message source.  It shows the sender's email address with the correct capitalization.  However, Mailman appears to be comparing a lowercase version of the sender's email address to the properly capitalized member list derived from the LDAPMemberAdapter.
>>
>> Is there a way to force the comparison to be case-insensitive?  Or, modify the LDAPMemberAdaptor to lowercase all the email addresses?
> 

Thank you for replying Mark.

> 
> This particular member adaptor assumes all email addresses in the LDAP
> database are lower case. Mailman itself has the concept of a "case
> preserved email" (CPE) and a "lower case email" (LCE) It uses the LCE
> as the key to look up a CPE or to verify if an LCE is a member. The
> member adaptor you are using doesn't distinguish between LCE and CPE
> and it only works if the email addresses in the LDAP database are
> lower case.

That Mailman understands CPE is great.
That the adaptor only works if email addresses in the LDAP database are
lower case is not great.

I have no way of changing how the email addresses are represented in the
LDAP database.  I have spoken with the administrator about making the
change but it is not possible without disrupting everyone's email.

> 
> In order to fix it, you would first need to have a way of finding the
> correct record in the LDAP database given only the LCE as a key. Since
> the member adaptor seems (via its __ldap_load_members() method) to
> keep all the list member emails in memory anyway, you could augment
> that method to build another dictionary with LCE as key and CPE as
> data and use that.

Okay.  I know enough Python to break things.  I know, I have done it.
My knowledge of Python consists of, well, zero.

> 
> Then you would need to modify the member adaptor to do what it's
> supposed to do. It seems to preserve the doc strings which define what
> the methods should do. You'd just need to make them do that.
> 

Is there anyway to modify the member adaptor to make sure everything it
stores in memory is lowercase when it loads via __ldap_load_members()?
And when it comes to the checking if an address is member, convert it to
lowercase prior to checking?  Since everything should be in lowercase,
it should find if an address is a member or not.

Alternatively, if you, or anyone else, would like to take this offline
and help me make the changes, I will do changes and testing and once
working, post the code back to the list.

Thank you,
Chris

From michael at wa7skg.com  Thu Mar 19 17:08:24 2009
From: michael at wa7skg.com (michael at wa7skg.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 12:08:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hosted mail vs Mailman
Message-ID: <1523935.430031237478904347.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>

Please forgive my very basic noob question.  I just want to be sure I understand this correctly.

I have an email address with an email provider on a completely separate host and system.

I want to use Mailman with this address.  Does Mailman, in essence, act as a email client, receiving an email just like any other client (Thunderbird, Mutt, etc.) would, act appropriately on it and send out the response to a generated list?

Therefore, I could have Mailman run on a separate web host or whatever, and it would use the email address just fine?

With my email service, I can create email boxes and that is about it.  I can't do anything else on the server side.

With my webhosting service, I can do pretty much anything web accessed, but I cannot run an email server.

Thanks for your patience with the new guy.

Michael

From brian at emwd.com  Fri Mar 20 16:50:35 2009
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:50:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hosted mail vs Mailman
In-Reply-To: <1523935.430031237478904347.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
References: <1523935.430031237478904347.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
Message-ID: <036001c9a973$9da15920$d8e40b60$@com>

> Please forgive my very basic noob question.  I just want to be sure I
> understand this correctly.
> 
> I have an email address with an email provider on a completely separate
> host and system.
> 
> I want to use Mailman with this address.  Does Mailman, in essence, act
> as a email client, receiving an email just like any other client
> (Thunderbird, Mutt, etc.) would, act appropriately on it and send out
> the response to a generated list?
> 
> Therefore, I could have Mailman run on a separate web host or whatever,
> and it would use the email address just fine?
> 
> With my email service, I can create email boxes and that is about it.
> I can't do anything else on the server side.
> 
> With my webhosting service, I can do pretty much anything web accessed,
> but I cannot run an email server.
> 
> Thanks for your patience with the new guy.
> 
> Michael
> ------------------------------------------------------

Hi Michael:

Mailman requires a unique host name and the list address, which is an e-mail
address that is used by Mailman, uses this unique host name. So you cannot
use domainexample.com for e-mail on one server and mailman on another
server. However you can use a sub-domain with mailman such as
list.domainexample.com and have your hosting provider or domain registrant
create an A record for the sub-domain and point it to the mailman server. We
do this all the time for our own mailman clients.

You might want to check our mailman services out at
http://emwd.com/mailman.html if you are interested in this type of setup.

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"


From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Fri Mar 20 16:54:11 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:54:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hosted mail vs Mailman
In-Reply-To: <1523935.430031237478904347.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
References: <1523935.430031237478904347.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
Message-ID: <49C3BC23.7060009@riverviewtech.net>

On 03/19/09 11:08, michael at wa7skg.com wrote:
> Please forgive my very basic noob question.  I just want to be sure I 
> understand this correctly.

That's what lists like this one are for.

> I have an email address with an email provider on a completely 
> separate host and system.

Ok...

> I want to use Mailman with this address.  Does Mailman, in essence, 
> act as a email client, receiving an email just like any other client 
> (Thunderbird, Mutt, etc.) would, act appropriately on it and send out 
> the response to a generated list?

No Mailman its self is not an email (POP3) client.

> Therefore, I could have Mailman run on a separate web host or 
> whatever, and it would use the email address just fine?

If you add something like fetchmail to the mix, yes you can do what you 
are wanting to do.

Fetchmail will act as the "email client" and then pass the messages that 
it downloads (POP3) in to Mailman for processing.

> With my email service, I can create email boxes and that is about it. 
>  I can't do anything else on the server side.

Ok.  I don't see this being a problem.

You may end up having fetchmail pull from different mail boxes for 
different Mailman mailing lists.

Considering this you may want to add another piece to the puzzle, namely 
Procmail.  Procmail will allow you to take the email retrieved via 
fetchmail and act on it differently depending on what is in the message 
(To: address).

Using fetchmail -> procmail -> Mailman you could easily have one set of 
configs on your server that will function on multiple mailboxes / 
Mailman mailing lists.

> With my webhosting service, I can do pretty much anything web 
> accessed, but I cannot run an email server.

*nod*

> Thanks for your patience with the new guy.

n/p



Grant. . . .

From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Fri Mar 20 16:59:11 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:59:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hosted mail vs Mailman
In-Reply-To: <036001c9a973$9da15920$d8e40b60$@com>
References: <1523935.430031237478904347.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
	<036001c9a973$9da15920$d8e40b60$@com>
Message-ID: <49C3BD4F.7090305@riverviewtech.net>

On 03/20/09 10:50, Brian Carpenter wrote:
> Mailman requires a unique host name and the list address, which is an 
> e-mail address that is used by Mailman, uses this unique host name. 
> So you cannot use domainexample.com for e-mail on one server and 
> mailman on another server. However you can use a sub-domain with 
> mailman such as list.domainexample.com and have your hosting provider 
> or domain registrant create an A record for the sub-domain and point 
> it to the mailman server. We do this all the time for our own mailman 
> clients.

I completely agree if you are wanting to use SMTP to deliver directly to 
the host running Mailman.

However as the OP indicated, he can't run an SMTP server on his Mailman 
host.

> You might want to check our mailman services out at 
> http://emwd.com/mailman.html if you are interested in this type of 
> setup.

*nod*

Using a ""hosted Mailman is an option too.



Grant. . . .

From cacities at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 21:10:30 2009
From: cacities at gmail.com (The League CA Cities)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:10:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <7c7532580903201310w31717f84oa1c49d5911399121@mail.gmail.com>

please unsubscribe this address. Thank you

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 21 20:03:26 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 12:03:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-ASCII signs in welcome text
In-Reply-To: <49C35000.6060509@googlemail.com>
References: <49C35000.6060509@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <49C539FE.2050309@msapiro.net>

Hendrik Maryns wrote:
> 
> I just started a new mailing list with Mailman.  The welcome_msg is in
> German and contains ???.  Then I subscribed myself to the list and got
> the following:
> 
> Hall&#246;chen, Beitr&#228;ge erw&#252;nscht, aber &#252;bertreibt es
> nicht, ne.


What is the list's preferred language? If it is English (or if it was
English when you set the welcome_msg), this is expected because
Mailman's character set for English is us-ascii and the page you're
posting from was sent with charset=us-ascii so your browser sends the
non-ascii characters as numeric html entities.

If the list's preferred language is German, whose charset is iso-8859-1,
when you set the welcome_msg, this should not happen.


> Furthermore, if I know log into the admin area, it gives the same text,
> that is, with all non-ASCII replaced by entities!


The reason you see the numeric HTML entities rather that the browser's
rendering of them is over-protective escaping of the '&' in the HTML
entity, but in this case, that's actually appropriate because the
ultimate use of this message is in a plain text email where the HTML
entities won't be rendered as characters anyway.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From deisner at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 18:30:49 2009
From: deisner at gmail.com (David Eisner)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:30:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the "<listname>-bounces" address
Message-ID: <5ef8ba410903201030x33767586n9473a532f7c302ad@mail.gmail.com>

Background:

   PHB: "I don?t like this ?bounces? in the header .. I think it makes
people nervous"

So I've been asked to change this somehow.  Would it be possible to
change the bounce address used for Sender: from
"foo-bounces at domain.org" to "foo-noreply at domain.org" or something
similar? I've looked through the configuration settings for the list
but don't see where this would be changed.  Is it hard-coded?

Thanks.

-David

P.S.  I think this would be less of an issue for the PHB if the
Outlook GUI made the "Sender" header less prominent than the "From"
header (as Thunderbird, and Google do, e.g.) in the message display.

From mezofi111 at t-online.hu  Fri Mar 20 20:30:33 2009
From: mezofi111 at t-online.hu (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Mez=F5fi_Istv=E1n?=)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 20:30:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Send data to list
Message-ID: <49C3EED9.5000201@t-online.hu>

Hy!

I have a simple form. Include email and name inputs.
I would like send data to mailman database when visitor send my form.
What can I do?

Thanks.
Istv?n Mez?fi
Hungary


From mitchell.gore at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 22:44:40 2009
From: mitchell.gore at gmail.com (Mitch Gore)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:44:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Import list of users
Message-ID: <addc01320903201444s31247a8bw361446a5b30a7782@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am working on building a mailman server that send out newsletters.  We
have a backend SQL database that holds all of our members info.

What I want to know is how would i go about automatically via a cron job run
a query that pulls the current member list into mailman and updates the
appropriate list.

I can handle writing the SQL query to pull the email but have no idea how to
get that into mailman.  Where does Mailman save its lists?  Any help in
scritping would be helpfull.

Thanks,
Mitchell

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Mar 21 22:23:40 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:23:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the "<listname>-bounces" address
In-Reply-To: <5ef8ba410903201030x33767586n9473a532f7c302ad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5ef8ba410903201030x33767586n9473a532f7c302ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49C55ADC.1070804@shub-internet.org>

on 3/20/09 12:30 PM, David Eisner said:

> So I've been asked to change this somehow.  Would it be possible to
> change the bounce address used for Sender: from
> "foo-bounces at domain.org" to "foo-noreply at domain.org" or something
> similar? I've looked through the configuration settings for the list
> but don't see where this would be changed.  Is it hard-coded?

Yes, it's hard-coded.

> P.S.  I think this would be less of an issue for the PHB if the
> Outlook GUI made the "Sender" header less prominent than the "From"
> header (as Thunderbird, and Google do, e.g.) in the message display.

FAQ 2.3 at <http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewinfo.action?pageId=4030534> 
makes this point very clear.  We are doing things the correct way, the 
problem is that Microsoft is screwing things up.  There's no way we can 
force Microsoft to do things correctly, so unless you want to modify the 
source code then this is just something that you have to live with.

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Mar 21 22:26:02 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:26:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Send data to list
In-Reply-To: <49C3EED9.5000201@t-online.hu>
References: <49C3EED9.5000201@t-online.hu>
Message-ID: <49C55B6A.3070803@shub-internet.org>

on 3/20/09 2:30 PM, Mez?fi Istv?n said:

> I have a simple form. Include email and name inputs.
> I would like send data to mailman database when visitor send my form.
> What can I do?

The current version of Mailman does not have a proper database.  There 
is some information about a user that is stored in binary format in a 
Python "pickle" file, but that's not a proper database.  Mailman3 will 
be able to properly interact with real databases on the back-end, but 
even there you won't really have any hooks that you can use to put 
additional information into the database.

If you have additional information you want to track, you need to keep 
this in a system that is outside of Mailman, and develop your own 
methods to keep those two systems in sync.

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Mar 21 22:27:42 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:27:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Import list of users
In-Reply-To: <addc01320903201444s31247a8bw361446a5b30a7782@mail.gmail.com>
References: <addc01320903201444s31247a8bw361446a5b30a7782@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49C55BCE.2040603@shub-internet.org>

on 3/20/09 4:44 PM, Mitch Gore said:

> What I want to know is how would i go about automatically via a cron job run
> a query that pulls the current member list into mailman and updates the
> appropriate list.
> 
> I can handle writing the SQL query to pull the email but have no idea how to
> get that into mailman.  Where does Mailman save its lists?  Any help in
> scritping would be helpfull.

See FAQ 4.09 at <http://wiki.list.org/x/z4A9>.

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 21 22:41:01 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:41:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Send data to list
In-Reply-To: <49C3EED9.5000201@t-online.hu>
References: <49C3EED9.5000201@t-online.hu>
Message-ID: <49C55EED.6050108@msapiro.net>

MezQfi Istv?n wrote:
> 
> I have a simple form. Include email and name inputs.
> I would like send data to mailman database when visitor send my form.
> What can I do?


If you mean you want to use your own form to subscribe people to your
list, see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/hIA9>.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 21 23:00:49 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:00:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the "<listname>-bounces" address
In-Reply-To: <49C55ADC.1070804@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903211500490968b5cbed39@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>on 3/20/09 12:30 PM, David Eisner said:
>
>> So I've been asked to change this somehow.  Would it be possible to
>> change the bounce address used for Sender: from
>> "foo-bounces at domain.org" to "foo-noreply at domain.org" or something
>> similar? I've looked through the configuration settings for the list
>> but don't see where this would be changed.  Is it hard-coded?
>
>Yes, it's hard-coded.
>
>> P.S.  I think this would be less of an issue for the PHB if the
>> Outlook GUI made the "Sender" header less prominent than the "From"
>> header (as Thunderbird, and Google do, e.g.) in the message display.
>
>FAQ 2.3 at <http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewinfo.action?pageId=4030534> 
>makes this point very clear.  We are doing things the correct way, the 
>problem is that Microsoft is screwing things up.  There's no way we can 
>force Microsoft to do things correctly, so unless you want to modify the 
>source code then this is just something that you have to live with.


For Mailman 2.2, I am considering changing the Sender: header from the
LIST-bounces address to the LIST posting address. As discussed in the
FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/RoA9>, I think this is in the spirit of
RFC2822/RFC5322.

However, I am nervous about this. There are potential problems with
non-compliant/brain-dead software that might inappropriately direct
bounces or out of office/vacation messages to the Sender: where they
might end up on the list.

I think that bounces aren't of great concern as I think there are few
MTAs that return bounces to other than the envelope sender, and even
if an MTA returns a bounce to Sender: it likely won't be From: a list
member.

I'm more concerned about out of office/vacation messages.

I would like to hear from anyone who as actually made this change
(putting the list posting address in Sender:). If you have done this,
do you notice an increase in these kinds of messages reaching the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Mar 22 00:56:29 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:56:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the "<listname>-bounces" address
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903211500490968b5cbed39@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200903211500490968b5cbed39@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49C57EAD.4030708@shub-internet.org>

on 3/21/09 5:00 PM, Mark Sapiro said:

> For Mailman 2.2, I am considering changing the Sender: header from the
> LIST-bounces address to the LIST posting address. As discussed in the
> FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/RoA9>, I think this is in the spirit of
> RFC2822/RFC5322.

If you do create an option to let list admins control this setting, I 
would recommend making it default to not available unless explicitly 
allowed by the site admin, and then default to off unless explicitly 
changed by the list admin.

Then I think you want to create some additional loop-control mechanisms 
to help defend the list against dain-bramaged mail systems.  You should 
also test "reply-to-all" functionality with that kind of setting.  You 
could definitely get at least duplicates that way.


I don't have any direct experience with doing this sort of thing in 
Mailman, because the option has never been available (short of modifying 
the code), and I didn't feel it was necessary.

But this concept really does make me cringe.  I'd want to see it heavily 
tested before released.

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Mar 22 07:48:44 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 15:48:44 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the "<listname>-bounces" address
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903211500490968b5cbed39@msapiro>
References: <49C55ADC.1070804@shub-internet.org>
	<PC1870200903211500490968b5cbed39@msapiro>
Message-ID: <873ad66oj7.fsf@xemacs.org>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > For Mailman 2.2, I am considering changing the Sender: header from the
 > LIST-bounces address to the LIST posting address.

IMO the list-post address is semantically inappropriate.  The sender
header is the mailbox of the agent that injected the message and
presumably would want to know about problems.  That's not the list
membership.

I think a better idea is to use a less geeky name like LIST-admin for
the bounce recipient.  That's already taken, you might say, but in
fact I think it works.  This has several advantages IMO:

1.  If the recipient's MTA uses a standard bounce format, it will work
    as it does today, with automatic delivery disabling, etc.
2.  Other bounces will go to a responsible party who can deal with
    them.  This could be combined with the usual moderator flow, with
    an additional button "reply with list-help" along with the current
    defer/accept/reject/discard.  (Yes, I know that for some lists
    this could be a burden.)
3.  On broken MUAs it reads correctly: "From LIST-admin at example.com on
    behalf of author at net.invalid".
4.  Recipients whose MUAs CC the sender can be automatically disabled,
    too!  (Maybe that's not a great idea for corporate MLs where
    people are using Blackberrys and other such common offenders, but
    I often wish I could!)


From dnewman at networktest.com  Sun Mar 22 03:02:33 2009
From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 19:02:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding a list to a virtual domain
Message-ID: <49C59C39.70307@networktest.com>

Greetings. I have a mailserver running OpenBSD 4.4, Postfix 2.5.3 and
Mailman 2.1.0. The machine hosts multiple virtual domains and Mailman
already hosts several mailing lists in one of these domains.

This evening I tried creating a new list but posts from a subscriber to
the new list bounce with the message "User unknown in virtual mailbox
table."

AFAICT Mailman is set up to work with Postfix virtual domains as
described in sections 6.1 and 6.2 of the Mailman docs. Mailman runs fine
for other lists in this domain on this host.

I did notice that the virtual-mailman file was not updated when I
created the list at 18:37:

root at mail:data# pwd
/usr/local/mailman/data
root at mail:data# ls -l
total 164
-rw-r-----  1 root     mailman     41 Apr 19  2008 adm.pw
-rw-rw----  1 root     mailman   7596 Mar 21 18:37 aliases
-rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman  65536 Mar 21 18:37 aliases.db
-rw-r-----  1 root     mailman     41 Apr 19  2008 creator.pw
-rw-r--r--  1 root     mailman     10 Apr 22  2008 last_mailman_version
-rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman      6 Feb 19 02:53 master-qrunner.pid
-rw-r--r--  1 root     mailman  14114 Jun 21  2008 sitelist.cfg
-rw-rw----  1 root     mailman   5077 Mar 21 18:33 virtual-mailman
-rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman  65536 Mar 21 18:37 virtual-mailman.db

Not that aliases, aliases.db and virtual-mailman.db all got updated when
I created the new list but virtual-mailman did not. I've tried
restarting apache, postfix and Mailman, but no joy.

I've also pasted lines from the end of mm_cfg.py below.

Thanks in advance for clues as to what's missing here.

dn



from mm_cfg.py (with the domain name scrubbed out):

MTA = 'Postfix'
MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mydomain.tld'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mydomain.tld'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'
IMAGE_LOGOS = '/icons/'
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postmap'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [ 'mydomain.tld' ]
VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes
VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = Yes
VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1
OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
add_virtualhost('mydomain.tld', 'mail.mydomain.tld')


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Mar 23 00:05:29 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:05:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding a list to a virtual domain
In-Reply-To: <49C59C39.70307@networktest.com>
References: <49C59C39.70307@networktest.com>
Message-ID: <49C6C439.8060408@shub-internet.org>

on 3/21/09 9:02 PM, David Newman said:

> Greetings. I have a mailserver running OpenBSD 4.4, Postfix 2.5.3 and
> Mailman 2.1.0. The machine hosts multiple virtual domains and Mailman
> already hosts several mailing lists in one of these domains.

When I got my start with Mailman over five years ago, the current 
version was 2.1.5.  I hope you mean that you're using 2.1.10 or 
something like that, and not 2.1.0.

I'm sorry, I wish I could help with the actual problem, but this really 
stuck out for me.

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 23 00:30:17 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:30:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding a list to a virtual domain
In-Reply-To: <49C59C39.70307@networktest.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020090322163017064065190f11@msapiro>

David Newman wrote:
>
>This evening I tried creating a new list but posts from a subscriber to
>the new list bounce with the message "User unknown in virtual mailbox
>table."
>
>AFAICT Mailman is set up to work with Postfix virtual domains as
>described in sections 6.1 and 6.2 of the Mailman docs. Mailman runs fine
>for other lists in this domain on this host.
>
>I did notice that the virtual-mailman file was not updated when I
>created the list at 18:37:


That probably means that the host whose name is the host_name attribute
of the new list is not in the mm_cfg.py POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
list.


>I've also pasted lines from the end of mm_cfg.py below.
>
>Thanks in advance for clues as to what's missing here.
>
>dn
>
>
>
>from mm_cfg.py (with the domain name scrubbed out):
>
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mydomain.tld'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mydomain.tld'
>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
>PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'
>IMAGE_LOGOS = '/icons/'
>POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postalias'
>POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postmap'
>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [ 'mydomain.tld' ]
>VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes
>VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
>VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = Yes
>VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes
>VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1
>OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
>add_virtualhost('mydomain.tld', 'mail.mydomain.tld')


I need more information to tell you exactly how to fix this, but let me
give you an example of how this should be set up with two virtual
hosts with host1's web host = web.example.com and email host =
mail.example.com and host2's web host = web.example.net and email host
= mail.example.net and both mail.example.com and mail.example.net
being Postfix virtual domains and host1 being the one with the
majority of lists.

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mail.example.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'web.example.com'
# above could be the .net domains. It makes now difference other than
# these are the default domains for bin/newlist and some other things.
#
# Clear the Defaults.py VIRTUAL_HOSTS entry
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
#
# Add the defaults
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
# and the other(s)
add_virtualhost('web.example.net', 'mail.example.net')
#
# Update virtual-mailman for lists in both domains
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['mail.example.com', 'mail.example.net']

The other things you have in mm_cfg.py not specifically mentioned are
OK as is.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 23 02:02:16 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:02:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the "<listname>-bounces" address
In-Reply-To: <873ad66oj7.fsf@xemacs.org>
Message-ID: <PC187020090322180216065665190f20@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Mark Sapiro writes:
>
> > For Mailman 2.2, I am considering changing the Sender: header from the
> > LIST-bounces address to the LIST posting address.
>
>IMO the list-post address is semantically inappropriate.  The sender
>header is the mailbox of the agent that injected the message and
>presumably would want to know about problems.  That's not the list
>membership.


That's a good point, even though current RFCs (RFC3464, RFC3834) say
that DSNs and and other automatic responses should go to the envelope
sender of the original message, not the Sender: address.


>I think a better idea is to use a less geeky name like LIST-admin for
>the bounce recipient.  That's already taken, you might say, but in
>fact I think it works.  This has several advantages IMO:


Actually, in Mailman 2.1.x, LIST-admin is a deprecated synonym for
LIST-bounces so we could just put LIST-admin in the Sender: header
(and "undeprecate" it) and nothing would change except

>3.  On broken MUAs it reads correctly: "From LIST-admin at example.com on
>    behalf of author at net.invalid".


I'm not sure I understand the following:

>4.  Recipients whose MUAs CC the sender can be automatically disabled,
>    too!  (Maybe that's not a great idea for corporate MLs where
>    people are using Blackberrys and other such common offenders, but
>    I often wish I could!)

Presumably, a CCd post would not be recognizable as a DSN, so whether
it was sent to LIST-admin, LIST-bounces or LIST-owner, it would end up
going to the human owners/moderators at least if
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner is Yes.

However, if the Sender: were VERP like as in
LIST-admin+rcpt=example.net at list.example.com, the return could be
recognized, but I think that defeats the purpose of having a non-geeky
Sender:.

If the issue would truly be resolved or at least mitigated by having
the Sender: be LIST-admin at list.example.com instead of
LIST-bounces at list.example.com, that's a really easy change that
wouldn't have any unintended side effects.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Mar 23 04:32:56 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 22:32:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the "<listname>-bounces" address
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090322180216065665190f20@msapiro>
References: <PC187020090322180216065665190f20@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49C702E8.6070209@shub-internet.org>

on 3/22/09 8:02 PM, Mark Sapiro said:

> If the issue would truly be resolved or at least mitigated by having
> the Sender: be LIST-admin at list.example.com instead of
> LIST-bounces at list.example.com, that's a really easy change that
> wouldn't have any unintended side effects.

One thing I would want to make sure of is that we don't make a forced 
unilateral change.  Give people the option of changing which header is 
used and how, but default to whatever the current behaviour is.  Maybe 
even hide it behind a site-wide setting that is turned off by default.

I filter all my mail by several different criteria, one of which is the 
value of the Sender: header.  It would be a royal pain to be forced to 
go in and change all my filters, just because the value of the Sender: 
header changed with an upgrade.

As one of the guys who is primarily responsible for the mailing lists 
used by thousands and thousands of people world-wide here on python.org, 
I would be strongly opposed to doing any kind of upgrade that would 
force that kind of behavior.  And it would be a real shame if we 
couldn't eat our own dogfood with regards to Mailman.

-- 
Brad Knowles
<brad at shub-internet.org>        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Mar 23 08:39:01 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:39:01 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the "<listname>-bounces" address
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090322180216065665190f20@msapiro>
References: <873ad66oj7.fsf@xemacs.org>
	<PC187020090322180216065665190f20@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87bprshene.fsf@xemacs.org>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > That's a good point, even though current RFCs (RFC3464, RFC3834) say
 > that DSNs and and other automatic responses should go to the envelope
 > sender of the original message, not the Sender: address.

Of course, but that's a side issue.  Sender is an originator, list
post refers to the recipients.

 > I'm not sure I understand the following:
 > 
 > >4.  Recipients whose MUAs CC the sender can be automatically disabled,
 > >    too!

It's a bad joke, just ignore it.

 > If the issue would truly be resolved or at least mitigated by having
 > the Sender: be LIST-admin at list.example.com instead of
 > LIST-bounces at list.example.com, that's a really easy change that
 > wouldn't have any unintended side effects.

I think PHBs would definitely be more comfortable with that than with
the "-bounces" variant.  But I agree with Brad that *any* change can
break things in mail, because it's all visible to and usable by
Spamassassin and Procmail among others.


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 23 15:44:18 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 07:44:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding a list to a virtual domain
In-Reply-To: <49C70745.50700@networktest.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009032307441806716b9678f1@msapiro>

David Newman wrote:
>
>I didn't have these two lines:
>
>VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>
>but adding them and restarting apache and mailman, deleting and
>recreating the list didn't resolve the original error.


That won't help if your representation of what you have is accurate.
You show

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mydomain.tld'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mydomain.tld'
add_virtualhost('mydomain.tld', 'mail.mydomain.tld')

make that

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mydomain.tld'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mydomain.tld'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

You now have a VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary with one entry with both key
and value = 'mydomain.tld'. Then

add_virtualhost('mydomain.tld', 'mail.mydomain.tld')

replaces that entry with one with key 'mydomain.tld' and value
'mail.mydomain.tld'. Every virtual host has to have a unique web host
because that's the key to look up the corresponding email host.

Also, if your list has email host 'mail.mydomain.tld', no
virtual-mailman entries will be created for it because

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [ 'mydomain.tld' ]

says only create virtual-mailman entries for lists with email host
'mydomain.tld'.


>You mentioned you'd need more info -- what else do you need?


I need to know the web and email domains for all the domains that have
lists - not necessarily the real domain names, but some representation
of them. I need to know which of these are virtual domains to Postfix.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jbernier at risd.edu  Mon Mar 23 15:44:28 2009
From: jbernier at risd.edu (Jeff Bernier)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:44:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error Creating List
Message-ID: <s9c76824.073@risd.edu>

Hi All,
 
When attempting to create a list from Mailman's web interface, I get:
 
Error: Unknown virtual host: lists.risd.edu
 
I can create lists at the command line just fine.
 
How can I correct this?
 

From jbernier at risd.edu  Mon Mar 23 15:54:58 2009
From: jbernier at risd.edu (Jeff Bernier)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:54:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error Creating List - additional info
Message-ID: <s9c76aa5.023@risd.edu>

I should have included this in my message. When crating a list from the command line, The list creates ok, but I see this message just after I enter the initial list password:
 
postalias: warning: /private/var/mailman/data/aliases.db: duplicate entry: "dm-admin"

From dnewman at networktest.com  Mon Mar 23 04:51:33 2009
From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 20:51:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding a list to a virtual domain
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090322163017064065190f11@msapiro>
References: <PC187020090322163017064065190f11@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49C70745.50700@networktest.com>

On 3/22/09 4:30 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> David Newman wrote:
>> This evening I tried creating a new list but posts from a subscriber to
>> the new list bounce with the message "User unknown in virtual mailbox
>> table."
>>
>> AFAICT Mailman is set up to work with Postfix virtual domains as
>> described in sections 6.1 and 6.2 of the Mailman docs. Mailman runs fine
>> for other lists in this domain on this host.
>>
>> I did notice that the virtual-mailman file was not updated when I
>> created the list at 18:37:
> 
> 
> That probably means that the host whose name is the host_name attribute
> of the new list is not in the mm_cfg.py POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
> list.

Nope, that wasn't it. host_name was set to mydomain.tld, as per the
mm_cfg.py below.

> 
> 
>> I've also pasted lines from the end of mm_cfg.py below.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for clues as to what's missing here.
>>
>> dn
>>
>>
>>
>>from mm_cfg.py (with the domain name scrubbed out):
>> MTA = 'Postfix'
>> MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'
>> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mydomain.tld'
>> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mydomain.tld'
>> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
>> PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'
>> IMAGE_LOGOS = '/icons/'
>> POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postalias'
>> POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postmap'
>> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [ 'mydomain.tld' ]
>> VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes
>> VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
>> VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = Yes
>> VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes
>> VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1
>> OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
>> add_virtualhost('mydomain.tld', 'mail.mydomain.tld')
> 
> 
> I need more information to tell you exactly how to fix this, but let me
> give you an example of how this should be set up with two virtual
> hosts with host1's web host = web.example.com and email host =
> mail.example.com and host2's web host = web.example.net and email host
> = mail.example.net and both mail.example.com and mail.example.net
> being Postfix virtual domains and host1 being the one with the
> majority of lists.
> 
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mail.example.com'
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'web.example.com'
> # above could be the .net domains. It makes now difference other than
> # these are the default domains for bin/newlist and some other things.
> #
> # Clear the Defaults.py VIRTUAL_HOSTS entry
> VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
> #
> # Add the defaults
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> # and the other(s)
> add_virtualhost('web.example.net', 'mail.example.net')
> #
> # Update virtual-mailman for lists in both domains
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['mail.example.com', 'mail.example.net']

I didn't have these two lines:

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

but adding them and restarting apache and mailman, deleting and
recreating the list didn't resolve the original error.

You mentioned you'd need more info -- what else do you need?

Many thanks.

dn

ps.

On 3/22/09 4:05 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:
>
> I hope you mean that you're using 2.1.10 or
> something like that, and not 2.1.0.

Yes, sorry I meant 2.1.10


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 23 16:47:51 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 08:47:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error Creating List
In-Reply-To: <s9c76824.073@risd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC18702009032308475100318a1ebb12@msapiro>

Jeff Bernier wrote:
> 
>When attempting to create a list from Mailman's web interface, I get:
> 
>Error: Unknown virtual host: lists.risd.edu


See the FAQs at <http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9> and
<http://wiki.list.org/x/8YA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 23 16:54:49 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 08:54:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error Creating List - additional info
In-Reply-To: <s9c76aa5.023@risd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC187020090323085449048455aba3d5@msapiro>

Jeff Bernier wrote:

>I should have included this in my message. When crating a list from the command line, The list creates ok, but I see this message just after I enter the initial list password:
> 
>postalias: warning: /private/var/mailman/data/aliases.db: duplicate entry: "dm-admin"


For some reason, there are duplicate aliases for "dm-admin" in
/private/var/mailman/data/aliases.

This can be fixed by rebuilding the aliases from scratch by running

bin/genaliases

If you think that Mailman itself created the duplicate entry and you
never edited /private/var/mailman/data/aliases by hand, then post a
copy of the file before running genaliases, and I'll try to figure out
what might have happened.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jbernier at risd.edu  Mon Mar 23 18:02:48 2009
From: jbernier at risd.edu (Jeff Bernier)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:02:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error Creating List - additional info
Message-ID: <s9c78898.057@risd.edu>

Thank you Mark for your help explaining this. Great stuff!
 
Jeff

>>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 3/23/2009 12:48 PM >>>
Jeff,

I see the problem. you have two lists named "dm" and "dm-admin", but
LISTNAME-admin is one of the aliases created for every LISTNAME.

Thus, you get

dm-admin:       "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman admin dm"

as the -admin address for the "dm" list and you get

dm-admin:             "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman post dm-admin"

as the posting address for the "dm-admin" list and these are duplicate
aliases.

As long as the aliases are in the order that they are, there is no
problem (except for the postfix warning) because the second replaces
the first and dm-admin works to post to the dm-admin list and there
should never be any mail to the -admin address of the "dm" list anyway
as that is a deprecated address.

If you had a list named "dm-bounces" or "dm-confirm" or "dm-request" or
"dm-owner", etc. that would be a problem.

In general, you should avoid list names that end in -admin, -bounces,
-confirm, -join, -leave, -owner, -request, -subscribe and -unsubscribe
for this reason.

To be safe in this case, you could remove the line

dm-admin:       "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman admin dm"

from the "dm" list aliases. That will get ride of the warning and will
ensure that the alias that's effective will be the "dm-admin" posting
address, but if you ever run bin/genaliases, it will come back.

In the future, consider naming a list like this xx-admins to avoid this
kind of conflict.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jbernier at risd.edu  Mon Mar 23 18:56:08 2009
From: jbernier at risd.edu (Jeff Bernier)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:56:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error Creating List
Message-ID: <s9c79511.090@risd.edu>

Those docs are all very confusing to me... I still don't see how to fix this. My mm_cfg.py file has the following section:
 
##################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
MTA = 'Postfix'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'hostname.risd.edu'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'hostname.risd.edu'
It looks correct to me. I know I'm missing something though.
I need Mailman for dummies.

>>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 3/23/2009 11:47 AM >>>
Jeff Bernier wrote:
> 
>When attempting to create a list from Mailman's web interface, I get:
> 
>Error: Unknown virtual host: lists.risd.edu


See the FAQs at <http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9> and
<http://wiki.list.org/x/8YA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 23 19:10:02 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:10:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error Creating List
In-Reply-To: <s9c79511.090@risd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC18702009032311100206402379a142@msapiro>

Jeff Bernier wrote:

>Those docs are all very confusing to me... I still don't see how to fix this. My mm_cfg.py file has the following section:
> 
>##################################################
># Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'hostname.risd.edu'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'hostname.risd.edu'

If the above are actually required - i.e., if they are different from
what's in Defaults.py - then you also need

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

following the above.

Then you also need

add_virtualhost('webdomain', 'emaildomain')

for each other web domain you support.


>>When attempting to create a list from Mailman's web interface, I get:
>> 
>>Error: Unknown virtual host: lists.risd.edu


This is telling you that lists.risd.edu (the host in the URL that you
went to for the create page) is not a key in the VIRTUAL_HOSTS
dictionary - i.e. it is not the first argument to some
add_virtualhost().

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dnewman at networktest.com  Mon Mar 23 19:15:52 2009
From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:15:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding a list to a virtual domain
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009032307441806716b9678f1@msapiro>
References: <PC18702009032307441806716b9678f1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49C7D1D8.5020009@networktest.com>

On 3/23/09 7:44 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> David Newman wrote:
>> I didn't have these two lines:
>>
>> VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
>> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>>
>> but adding them and restarting apache and mailman, deleting and
>> recreating the list didn't resolve the original error.
> 
> 
> That won't help if your representation of what you have is accurate.
> You show
> 
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mydomain.tld'
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mydomain.tld'
> add_virtualhost('mydomain.tld', 'mail.mydomain.tld')
> 
> make that
> 
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mydomain.tld'
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mydomain.tld'
> VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> 
> You now have a VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary with one entry with both key
> and value = 'mydomain.tld'. Then
> 
> add_virtualhost('mydomain.tld', 'mail.mydomain.tld')
> 
> replaces that entry with one with key 'mydomain.tld' and value
> 'mail.mydomain.tld'. Every virtual host has to have a unique web host
> because that's the key to look up the corresponding email host.

Ahhh, I see. I missed the part where one add_virtualhost directive's
key/value pair replaces another's. Thanks.

> Also, if your list has email host 'mail.mydomain.tld', no
> virtual-mailman entries will be created for it because
> 
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [ 'mydomain.tld' ]
> 
> says only create virtual-mailman entries for lists with email host
> 'mydomain.tld'.

I've just set everything for simply 'mydomain.tld' (I'm only using one
virtual domain at the moment, though that will change in the future),
and all is good now. My mm_cfg.py additions are pasted below.

Thanks again for your help.

dn

MTA = 'Postfix'
MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mydomain.tld'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mydomain.tld'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
add_virtualhost('mydomain.tld', 'mydomain.tld')
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'
IMAGE_LOGOS = '/icons/'
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postmap'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [ 'mydomain.tld', 'mydomain.tld' ]
VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes
VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = Yes
VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1
OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes

> 
> 
>> You mentioned you'd need more info -- what else do you need?
> 
> 
> I need to know the web and email domains for all the domains that have
> lists - not necessarily the real domain names, but some representation
> of them. I need to know which of these are virtual domains to Postfix.
> 


From jbernier at risd.edu  Mon Mar 23 19:34:22 2009
From: jbernier at risd.edu (Jeff Bernier)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 14:34:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error Creating List
Message-ID: <s9c79e00.074@risd.edu>

Once again Mark, Thank you. Adding the two lines you mentioned fixed it.
 
As I'm getting acquainted with Mailman, I'm trying to pay close attention to the how-tos, fixes, and workings of things. Maybe some day I'll be a help to a newbie.
 
-Jeff

Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> 3/23/2009 2:10 PM >>>
Jeff Bernier wrote:

>Those docs are all very confusing to me... I still don't see how to fix this. My mm_cfg.py file has the following section:
> 
>##################################################
># Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'hostname.risd.edu'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'hostname.risd.edu'

If the above are actually required - i.e., if they are different from
what's in Defaults.py - then you also need

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

following the above.

Then you also need

add_virtualhost('webdomain', 'emaildomain')

for each other web domain you support.


>>When attempting to create a list from Mailman's web interface, I get:
>> 
>>Error: Unknown virtual host: lists.risd.edu


This is telling you that lists.risd.edu (the host in the URL that you
went to for the create page) is not a key in the VIRTUAL_HOSTS
dictionary - i.e. it is not the first argument to some
add_virtualhost().

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 23 20:40:00 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:40:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the "<listname>-bounces" address
In-Reply-To: <49C702E8.6070209@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <PC18702009032312400007818a7ff0cd@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>One thing I would want to make sure of is that we don't make a forced 
>unilateral change.  Give people the option of changing which header is 
>used and how, but default to whatever the current behaviour is.  Maybe 
>even hide it behind a site-wide setting that is turned off by default.
>
>I filter all my mail by several different criteria, one of which is the 
>value of the Sender: header.  It would be a royal pain to be forced to 
>go in and change all my filters, just because the value of the Sender: 
>header changed with an upgrade.


I hear you Brad. I had not considered user's filtering on the Sender
header, but your points are well made. There are always unintended
consequences ;)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 23 20:50:09 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:50:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the "<listname>-bounces" address
In-Reply-To: <5ef8ba410903231233q52fdabf6l122ea8a356a37f17@mail.gmail.com>
References: <873ad66oj7.fsf@xemacs.org>	
	<PC187020090322180216065665190f20@msapiro>
	<87bprshene.fsf@xemacs.org>
	<5ef8ba410903231233q52fdabf6l122ea8a356a37f17@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49C7E7F1.2050202@msapiro.net>

David Eisner wrote:
> 
> I realize changes like this shouldn't be taken lightly and can have
> far reaching consequences, but this sounds like something we could
> live with here for the time being, i.e. Sender: getting set to the
> "-admin" address instead of the "-bounces" address.
> 
> Does this look acceptable (followed by a 'mailmanctl restart')?
> 
> $ diff -u Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py.orig
> Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py
> --- Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py.orig 2009-03-23 14:53:31.893203000 -0400
> +++ Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py      2009-03-23 15:15:19.419853000 -0400
> @@ -357,7 +357,8 @@
>      # Errors-To while new ones will at worst ignore the header.
>      del msg['sender']
>      del msg['errors-to']
> -    msg['Sender'] = envsender
> +    # msg['Sender'] = envsender
> +    msg['Sender'] = mlist.getListAddress('admin')
>      msg['Errors-To'] = envsender
>      # Get the plain, flattened text of the message, sans unixfrom
>      msgtext = msg.as_string()


Yes. That's exactly the patch that's required.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From deisner at gmail.com  Mon Mar 23 20:33:21 2009
From: deisner at gmail.com (David Eisner)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:33:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the "<listname>-bounces" address
In-Reply-To: <87bprshene.fsf@xemacs.org>
References: <873ad66oj7.fsf@xemacs.org>
	<PC187020090322180216065665190f20@msapiro> <87bprshene.fsf@xemacs.org>
Message-ID: <5ef8ba410903231233q52fdabf6l122ea8a356a37f17@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 3:39 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
> I think PHBs would definitely be more comfortable with that than with
> the "-bounces" variant. ?But I agree with Brad that *any* change can

I realize changes like this shouldn't be taken lightly and can have
far reaching consequences, but this sounds like something we could
live with here for the time being, i.e. Sender: getting set to the
"-admin" address instead of the "-bounces" address.

Does this look acceptable (followed by a 'mailmanctl restart')?

$ diff -u Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py.orig
Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py
--- Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py.orig 2009-03-23 14:53:31.893203000 -0400
+++ Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py      2009-03-23 15:15:19.419853000 -0400
@@ -357,7 +357,8 @@
     # Errors-To while new ones will at worst ignore the header.
     del msg['sender']
     del msg['errors-to']
-    msg['Sender'] = envsender
+    # msg['Sender'] = envsender
+    msg['Sender'] = mlist.getListAddress('admin')
     msg['Errors-To'] = envsender
     # Get the plain, flattened text of the message, sans unixfrom
     msgtext = msg.as_string()

-David

-- 
David Eisner     http://cradle.brokenglass.com

From elhijo.mgl at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 13:57:46 2009
From: elhijo.mgl at gmail.com (David LEROUX)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:57:46 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing lists user management delegation
Message-ID: <49C8D8CA.2000206@gmail.com>

Hi all,
I'm a new mailman's user, it seems to be very useful for us at our company
I'm just looking for a way to delegate mailing list users management to 
someone else, that should not access to all mailing list's parameters
Is there a way to do that ?
It could be in administrative tasks but I'm afraid it's not...
Any help would be welcomed
Thanks to dev's work
Have a nice day

-- 
David Leroux

Mac Guff Ligne
6 rue dela cavalerie
75015 Paris

01.53.58.46.46 poste 310


From maxime.carron at uperto.com  Tue Mar 24 10:39:51 2009
From: maxime.carron at uperto.com (Maxime Carron)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 10:39:51 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Supporting *private* search in private archives
	with namazu
Message-ID: <1237887591.6077.16.camel@uperto04.uperto.int.uperto.int>

Hi there,

I installed mailman and namazu (on Debian 5).
Everything works well for public archives.

My main problem now is supporting authentication and acces control for
namazu researchs in private archives.
I want to allow research in <my-ml>'s archives only if mailman allow
<USER> to browse the archive.

Anyone did that already?
Eventually, does anyone know a good howto/examples to use
SecurityManager.py (provided in /var/lib/mailman/Mailman in mailman's
debian package).

Thank you.

Max


From mrclark219 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 23 18:30:33 2009
From: mrclark219 at gmail.com (Thomas Clark)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:30:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List problems
Message-ID: <1443f7ff0903231030w35bdf372h61276dae5b28fe5f@mail.gmail.com>

Hey guys,

My name is Thomas Clark and I am using mailman to run my mailing list off
of.  The problem that I have encountered is that a redirection problem with
my lists.  How do I set it up so that I can control where the mail is sent,
because as of now my moderators are getting error messages saying that the
site doesn't exist?  Any idea?

Thanks,

-- 
Mr. Thomas C. Clark

From pindoramalinux at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 17:15:14 2009
From: pindoramalinux at gmail.com (Richardson Lima)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:15:14 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Python or Perl Script for manage the administrative
	requests for mailling list
Message-ID: <ca9792a20903240915l4073850aqb754724414d311eb@mail.gmail.com>

Dear ALL,

What is the procedure for use Python or Perl Script for  manage the
administrative requests for mailling list,i need mark the options  Accept or
Reject action to take on all these held messages.

[] ' s


-- 
-----------------------------------------------
Richardson Lima
http://antnet.wordpress.com
http://securityfusion.sourceforge.net
(Security Fusion intrusion detection system)

Position:  Security System Administrator
Location:  Networking and Telecommuncations Research Group
Federal University of Pernambuco
Informatics Center, Brazil

P.O. Box: 7851, ZIP: 50732-970
Phone: +55-81-2126-8954 Fax:+55-81-2126-8955
Gsm Mobile: +55 81 88725173

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Tue Mar 24 17:26:26 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:26:26 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Python or Perl Script for manage the
	administrative requests for mailling list
In-Reply-To: <ca9792a20903240915l4073850aqb754724414d311eb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ca9792a20903240915l4073850aqb754724414d311eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090324162626.GW4537@amyl.org.uk>

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 01:15:14PM -0300, Richardson Lima wrote:
> Dear ALL,
> 
> What is the procedure for use Python or Perl Script for  manage the
> administrative requests for mailling list,i need mark the options  Accept or
> Reject action to take on all these held messages.
> 
> [] ' s

http://wiki.list.org/x/aIA9 : I sometimes use listadmin, refered to
therein. RTSC?

-- 
``Vote Labour -- Sleep Tory''
  (unofficial slogan of Oswald Mosley)

From pindoramalinux at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 17:12:19 2009
From: pindoramalinux at gmail.com (Richardson Lima)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:12:19 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Script for manage the administrative requests for
	mailling list
Message-ID: <ca9792a20903240912x75dbc3cl8bc260aa4dcd0a8@mail.gmail.com>

Dear ALL,

What is the procedure for use Python or Perl Script for  manage the
administrative requests for mailling list,i need mark the options  Accept or
Reject action to take on all these held messages.

[] ' s

-- 
-- 
===================================================
Richardson Lima [ HACHID ]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Web:  www.webdrops.co.cc
Skype: richardsonpindoramalinux
msn: richardson at hachid.com
Curriculum:
http://webdrops.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/curriculum-vitae-public.pdf
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fun??o: Administrador de Sistemas / Unix Network Security [ GPRT-UFPE - CIn
 ]
L?der do Grupo de usu?rio OpenBSD-pe: http://openbsd-pe.codigolivre.org.br
Membro do CInLUG: www.cinlug-br.org
===================================================

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 24 18:16:50 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 10:16:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List problems
In-Reply-To: <1443f7ff0903231030w35bdf372h61276dae5b28fe5f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903241016500468c5cb6fc6@msapiro>

Thomas Clark wrote:
>
>My name is Thomas Clark and I am using mailman to run my mailing list off
>of.  The problem that I have encountered is that a redirection problem with
>my lists.  How do I set it up so that I can control where the mail is sent,
>because as of now my moderators are getting error messages saying that the
>site doesn't exist?  Any idea?


Are you saying you have invalid/undeliverable addresses subscribed to
your lists? I suggest you configure automated bounce processing via
each list's web admin interface Bounce processing page so that these
addresses are automatically removed.

You can also use the command line bin/config_list tool to set bounce
processing options for several lists. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/MIBp>.

In order to keep invalid addresses from getting on lists in the first
place, set Privacy options... -> Subscription rules ->
subscribe_policy to Confirm and don't use mass subscribe to add
members.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 24 18:21:46 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 10:21:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing lists user management delegation
In-Reply-To: <49C8D8CA.2000206@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903241021460281c5cb6f07@msapiro>

David LEROUX wrote:

>I'm just looking for a way to delegate mailing list users management to 
>someone else, that should not access to all mailing list's parameters
>Is there a way to do that ?

Not with current Mailman. You can set a moderator password to allow
people to approve/reject/discard held posts and/or subscription
requests, but not to admin the list, but there is no restricted
"member management only" access.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Tlf1 at ccs135.com  Tue Mar 24 21:08:05 2009
From: Tlf1 at ccs135.com (Tim Ferguson)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:08:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Well,
	it appears I'm making progress in getting e-mail to the	 mailman
	server, the question now is what does t
Message-ID: <49C8F755020000BD000150E1@mail.ccs135.com>


Well, it appears I'm making progress  in getting e-mail to the mailman server, the question now is what does the error listed below mean?  This is in response to a reply I sent to verify a subscription. 

Remote host said: 550 <mailman-request at hearye.ccs135.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table 

Thank you! 

Tim 

Tim Ferguson
Director of Technology
Centralia City Schools
Centralia, Illinois 62801
618-532-1907, Ext. 1030





From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 24 21:30:21 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:30:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Well,
	it appears I'm making progress in getting e-mail to the	
	mailmanserver, the question now is what does t
In-Reply-To: <49C8F755020000BD000150E1@mail.ccs135.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903241330210125c5cb6e52@msapiro>

Tim Ferguson wrote:
>
>Remote host said: 550 <mailman-request at hearye.ccs135.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table 


It means the Mailman machine's MTA doesn't have aliases for Mailman.

If this is Postfix, set up Postfix integration per
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html> and then run
Mailman's bin/genailiases to update the aliases.

If this is sendmail, run bin/genaliases to get a list of required
aliases for /etc/aliases, or see step 6 of the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/B4Au>.

(and please keep any replies on the list)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From phanh at canby.k12.or.us  Wed Mar 25 00:45:39 2009
From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:45:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe confirmation message not send
Message-ID: <23C89CFC-0DB7-4D04-9F0D-44A85A020A8D@canby.k12.or.us>

Hi all,

Got an outstanding issue with Mailman 2.1.9 included with Apple  
Leopard server 10.5.6: suddenly the subscribe confirmation messages  
never send out anymore.

Here is a little cut & paste out of the error log:
Mar 23 22:46:23 2009 admin(6944): /usr/share/mailman/Mailman/ 
MailList.py:907: DeprecationWarning: raising a string exception is  
deprecated
   raise Errors.MMSubscribeNeedsConfirmation
Mar 24 15:49:45 2009 admin(4503): /usr/share/mailman/Mailman/ 
MailList.py:907: DeprecationWarning: raising a string exception is  
deprecated
   raise Errors.MMSubscribeNeedsConfirmation

Here is the qrunner log:
Mar 23 22:59:44 2009 (192) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
Mar 23 22:59:44 2009 (190) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Mar 23 22:59:44 2009 (189) CommandRunner qrunner started.
Mar 23 22:59:44 2009 (186) ArchRunner qrunner started.
Mar 23 22:59:44 2009 (194) RetryRunner qrunner started.
Mar 23 22:59:44 2009 (187) BounceRunner qrunner started.
Mar 23 22:59:44 2009 (191) NewsRunner qrunner started.
Mar 23 22:59:44 2009 (193) VirginRunner qrunner started.

Here is the subscribe log:
Mar 23 16:54:51 2009 (5065) school1_parents: pending Hung Phan <phanh at canbysd.org 
 >
Mar 23 16:56:23 2009 (5112) school2_parents: pending Hung Phan <phanh at canbysd.org 
 >
Mar 23 16:57:22 2009 (5133) school2_parents: pending Hung Phan <phanh at canbysd.org 
 >
Mar 23 16:59:52 2009 (5175) school2_parents: pending Hung Phan <phanh at canbysd.org 
 >
Mar 23 17:02:25 2009 (5238) school3_parents: pending Hung Phan <phanh at canbysd.org 
 >
Mar 24 15:49:45 2009 (4503) school4_parents: pending Hung Phan <phanh at canby.org 
 >

Here is a portion of vette log:
Mar 23 16:52:28 2009 (5008) school1: held subscription request from phanh at canbysd.org
Mar 23 17:00:26 2009 (5197) school3: held subscription request from phanh at canbysd.org

Seems like everything is posted at the correct log but no confirmation  
message is sent out. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 25 01:35:42 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:35:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe confirmation message not send
In-Reply-To: <23C89CFC-0DB7-4D04-9F0D-44A85A020A8D@canby.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903241735420296f06e0552@msapiro>

Hung Phan wrote:
>
>Here is a little cut & paste out of the error log:
>Mar 23 22:46:23 2009 admin(6944): /usr/share/mailman/Mailman/ 
>MailList.py:907: DeprecationWarning: raising a string exception is  
>deprecated
>   raise Errors.MMSubscribeNeedsConfirmation
>Mar 24 15:49:45 2009 admin(4503): /usr/share/mailman/Mailman/ 
>MailList.py:907: DeprecationWarning: raising a string exception is  
>deprecated
>   raise Errors.MMSubscribeNeedsConfirmation


Did you just upgrade Python to 2.6.x? If you're going to use Python
2.6.x, you need Mailman 2.1.12.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/pYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jbernier at risd.edu  Wed Mar 25 15:09:33 2009
From: jbernier at risd.edu (Jeff Bernier)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 10:09:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing Archived items from a list
Message-ID: <s9ca02f9.005@risd.edu>

Hello,
 
What is the easiest was to selectively remove archived messages from a list?
 
I don't want to purge it completely, just remove some items.
 
Thanks,
Jeff

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 25 15:23:18 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 07:23:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing Archived items from a list
In-Reply-To: <s9ca02f9.005@risd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC187020090325072318032890b7cdda@msapiro>

Jeff Bernier wrote:
> 
>What is the easiest was to selectively remove archived messages from a list?


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/2YA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Wed Mar 25 15:30:00 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:30:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing Archived items from a list
In-Reply-To: <s9ca02f9.005@risd.edu>
References: <s9ca02f9.005@risd.edu>
Message-ID: <49CA3FE8.6070809@riverviewtech.net>

On 03/25/09 09:09, Jeff Bernier wrote:
> What is the easiest was to selectively remove archived messages from 
> a list?
> 
> I don't want to purge it completely, just remove some items.

Some may prefer to use a email client of some sort to edit the actual 
.mbox file rather than doing it by hand with a text editor.

Don't forget to update the archive after the fact.



Grant. . . .

From phanh at canby.k12.or.us  Wed Mar 25 16:53:49 2009
From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 08:53:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe confirmation message not send
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903241735420296f06e0552@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200903241735420296f06e0552@msapiro>
Message-ID: <011E6613-957E-4F82-816D-E05D05C17CCF@canby.k12.or.us>

Python version is 2.5.
Weird thing is that unsubscribe message send out but not the confirm  
message. The lists are set to confirm.

Thanks,



On Mar 24, 2009, at 5:35 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Hung Phan wrote:
>>
>> Here is a little cut & paste out of the error log:
>> Mar 23 22:46:23 2009 admin(6944): /usr/share/mailman/Mailman/
>> MailList.py:907: DeprecationWarning: raising a string exception is
>> deprecated
>>  raise Errors.MMSubscribeNeedsConfirmation
>> Mar 24 15:49:45 2009 admin(4503): /usr/share/mailman/Mailman/
>> MailList.py:907: DeprecationWarning: raising a string exception is
>> deprecated
>>  raise Errors.MMSubscribeNeedsConfirmation
>
>
> Did you just upgrade Python to 2.6.x? If you're going to use Python
> 2.6.x, you need Mailman 2.1.12.
>
> See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/pYA9>.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

Hung Phan
Network Specialist
Canby School District
1859 S Township
Canby, OR 97013
503-266-0010


From elhijo.mgl at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 17:07:32 2009
From: elhijo.mgl at gmail.com (David LEROUX)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:07:32 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing lists user management delegation
In-Reply-To: <1237910401.6077.40.camel@uperto04.uperto.int.uperto.int>
References: <49C8D8CA.2000206@gmail.com>
	<1237910401.6077.40.camel@uperto04.uperto.int.uperto.int>
Message-ID: <49C90544.1030608@gmail.com>



Maxime Carron wrote:
> Le mardi 24 mars 2009 ? 13:57 +0100, David LEROUX a ?crit :
>   
>> Hi all,
>> I'm a new mailman's user, it seems to be very useful for us at our company
>> I'm just looking for a way to delegate mailing list users management to 
>> someone else, that should not access to all mailing list's parameters
>> Is there a way to do that ?
>> It could be in administrative tasks but I'm afraid it's not...
>> Any help would be welcomed
>> Thanks to dev's work
>> Have a nice day
>>
>>     
>
> Every list has its own password.
> You only need to give the list's password to the person you want to
> manage this list.
>
> Use 'mmsitepass' to set a global password for you/the admin
>
> Max
>
>   

Yes I know that each list have it's own password, but if you have a 
password for a list, you can change all the list's options
I want that some person can only add/remove users to mailing list and 
nothing more

-- 
David Leroux

Mac Guff Ligne
6 rue dela cavalerie
75015 Paris

01.53.58.46.46 poste 310


From elhijo.mgl at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 13:51:00 2009
From: elhijo.mgl at gmail.com (David LEROUX)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:51:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing lists user management delegation
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903241021460281c5cb6f07@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200903241021460281c5cb6f07@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49CA28B4.90903@gmail.com>



Mark Sapiro wrote:
> David LEROUX wrote:
>
>   
>> I'm just looking for a way to delegate mailing list users management to 
>> someone else, that should not access to all mailing list's parameters
>> Is there a way to do that ?
>>     
>
> Not with current Mailman. You can set a moderator password to allow
> people to approve/reject/discard held posts and/or subscription
> requests, but not to admin the list, but there is no restricted
> "member management only" access.
>
>   
That's what I thought, just wanna make sure
May be in a future version ? ;)

-- 
David Leroux

Mac Guff Ligne
6 rue dela cavalerie
75015 Paris

01.53.58.46.46 poste 310


From ncollins at stjamesumc.com  Tue Mar 24 16:01:46 2009
From: ncollins at stjamesumc.com (Nyrobi Collins)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 10:01:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribers Receiving Multiple Emails
Message-ID: <84300AC28C6248AB9A038AC5CBCB1427@gb090971>

We are having an issue with subscribers receiving three of the same emails
every time I send an email.  It doesn't happen to every subscriber, but
those who get multiples always get three.
 
Any suggestions for how to eliminate this?

From webwitchcraft at webwitchcraft.com  Wed Mar 25 21:58:37 2009
From: webwitchcraft at webwitchcraft.com (Web Witchcraft)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 14:58:37 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message footers as "inline attachment"
Message-ID: <7874F36AC23E47749E2CE0E8E2FC9137@gregsrocket>

A few months back our mailman listserv started showing up with an occasional
short message sent out to the list members who receive individual messages
that had the usual message footers attached as an "inline attachment" rather
than including it in the body of the message. It went on this way for months
with only an occasional rare message showing the footers as an inline
attachment but it gradually got worse until NOW someone complained about it
and when I started looking I realized that 9 out of 10 of our messages now
show the footers as an attachment to the message email rather than being in
the body of the email. 

The odd thing is that it happens for MOST users but some members seem to be
immune to the issue. A scan through my two message private archives for this
list shows that some list members don't seem to EVER have the problem while
MOST list members do...

I'm completely baffled here. For the LIFE of me I can't figure out what
would cause this to happen. Yet it clearly IS happening. 

Can anyone here offer a suggestion as to what the cause of this strange
behavior may be and how to correct it?

Thanks!


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 26 04:05:49 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:05:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe confirmation message not send
In-Reply-To: <011E6613-957E-4F82-816D-E05D05C17CCF@canby.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903252005490218907f5ccb@msapiro>

Hung Phan wrote:

>Python version is 2.5.

And did that change recently?

And did you read the FAQ that I referenced that says Mailman 2.1.9
doesn't work with Python 2.5 either (I don't recall exactly what the
issues are, but the deprecation warning on string exceptions is one of
them).


>Weird thing is that unsubscribe message send out but not the confirm  
>message. The lists are set to confirm.


Is there anything in Mailman's error log besides the deprecation
warnings you posted earlier?

What's in Mailman's smtp and smtp-failure logs with timestamps near
those of the 'pending' messages from the subscribe log?

>
>On Mar 24, 2009, at 5:35 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/pYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From terri at zone12.com  Thu Mar 26 04:12:21 2009
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:12:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message footers as "inline attachment"
In-Reply-To: <7874F36AC23E47749E2CE0E8E2FC9137@gregsrocket>
References: <7874F36AC23E47749E2CE0E8E2FC9137@gregsrocket>
Message-ID: <49CAF295.10908@zone12.com>

Web Witchcraft wrote:
> A few months back our mailman listserv started showing up with an occasional
> short message sent out to the list members who receive individual messages
> that had the usual message footers attached as an "inline attachment" rather
> than including it in the body of the message.

This is related to the MIME type of the message being sent, common when 
messages are sent as HTML.  Check out section 4.39 of the FAQ:

http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9

Cutting and pasting, it sounds like your options are:

  1. Configure Mailman to remove the msg_header/msg_footer
  2. Configure Mailman to strip all HTML and MIME formatting and send 
out all messages as text-only (text/plain)
  3. Get everyone to change the MUA they use to one that is more 
HTML/MIME-aware
  4. Live with the problem

I use #2, personally, although it sometimes causes formatting weirdness.

  Terri

From brian at emwd.com  Thu Mar 26 15:39:38 2009
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 10:39:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange bounce removal issue
Message-ID: <00d601c9ae20$b281b040$178510c0$@com>

Hey Mailman Users,

I have a strange issue affecting a client's mailing list. It seems the
mailman server is repeatedly removing an e-mail address due to excessive
bounces. I see this in the subscribe log file:

Mar 22 20:38:04 2009 (26386) listname_list.domain.com: deleted
email at verizon.net; disabled address
Mar 22 20:38:04 2009 (26386) listname_list.domain.com: email at verizon.net
auto-unsubscribed [reason: BYBOUNCE]
Mar 22 20:53:06 2009 (24019) listname_list.domain.com: deleted
email at verizon.net; disabled address
Mar 22 20:53:06 2009 (24019) listname_list.domain.com: email at verizon.net
auto-unsubscribed [reason: BYBOUNCE]
Mar 22 21:08:08 2009 (29528) listname_list.domain.com: deleted
email at verizon.net; disabled address
Mar 22 21:08:08 2009 (29528) listname_list.domain.com: email at verizon.net
auto-unsubscribed [reason: BYBOUNCE]
Mar 22 21:23:10 2009 (1713) listname_list.domain.com: deleted
email at verizon.net; disabled address
Mar 22 21:23:10 2009 (1713) listname_list.domain.com: email at verizon.net
auto-unsubscribed [reason: BYBOUNCE]
Mar 22 21:38:11 2009 (5212) listname_list.domain.com: deleted
email at verizon.net; disabled address
Mar 22 21:38:11 2009 (5212) listname_list.domain.com: email at verizon.net
auto-unsubscribed [reason: BYBOUNCE]
Mar 22 21:53:13 2009 (7199) listname_list.domain.com: deleted
email at verizon.net; disabled address
Mar 22 21:53:13 2009 (7199) listname_list.domain.com: email at verizon.net
auto-unsubscribed [reason: BYBOUNCE]
Mar 22 22:08:14 2009 (10748) listname_list.domain.com: deleted
email at verizon.net; disabled address

These entries actually go on for about 3 days, and seem to occur in the late
evening/ early morning hours. Since the administrator of the list is
notified when a member is removed due to bounces, he keeps receiving
repeated notices regarding the same e-mail address.

This issue does effect different e-mail address but the same list and it is
very random. I have not received any reports from my other clients, just
this particular one.

I really could use some assistance in troubleshooting this. Thanks!

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"



From dnewman at networktest.com  Thu Mar 26 15:59:04 2009
From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 07:59:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] some messages missing from archive
Message-ID: <49CB9838.40507@networktest.com>

Mailman 2.1.10 on OpenBSD 4.4 with Postfix 2.5.3

Checked the FAQ and searched Google but didn't see anything that
directly addressed this:

Most messages make it into the archives but a few do not. I've pasted
below a sample of a message that didn't make it to the archive. I
suspect that it might be related to Postfix's message handling but am
not sure what's missing from the offending messages.

Thanks in advance for clues on debugging this.

dn

((addresses, domains and IP addresses anonymized))

Return-Path: <user at example.com>
X-Original-To: myname at mydomain.tld
Delivered-To: myname at mydomain.tld
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by mail.mydomain.tld (Postfix) with ESMTP id 616F15B3159
	for <myname at mydomain.tld>; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:16:21 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at localdomain
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.671
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.671 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31
	tests=[AWL=-0.929, BAYES_20=-0.74, SPF_PASS=-0.001]
Received: from mail.mydomain.tld ([127.0.0.1])
	by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id kkMkBnOO63bs for <myname at mydomain.tld>;
	Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:16:19 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx.otherdomain.net (blackhelicopters.otherdomain.net
[666.1.2.3])
	by mail.mydomain.tld (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BDC15B3157
	for <myname at mydomain.tld>; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:16:19 -0800 (PST)
Received: from elvis.example.net (dsl1-2-3.yetanotherdomain.net [1.2.3.666])
	(Authenticated sender: someuser at example.com)
	by mx.otherdomain.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A02D196841
	for <myname at mydomain.tld>; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:16:18 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <23A25183-7F35-4D19-B528-53C0A6D4F73B at example.com>
From: someuser example <someuser at example.com>
To: myname <myname at mydomain.tld>
In-Reply-To: <4969A68C.8000900 at mydomain.tld>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3)
Subject: Re: [myname members] Message size limits (was: (no subject))
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:16:17 -0800
References: <0089FC87E3644D2895590076717851F9 at Wizardry>
<52F0A1B1F834C54DB1C0CF32182D6E9B03D7B307 at sagan.aperio.int>
<4969A68C.8000900 at mydomain.tld>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3)

On Jan 10, 2009, at 11:58 AM, myname wrote:

> With due respect, I think it's a lousy idea

+1

-someuser


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 26 16:02:11 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:02:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange bounce removal issue
In-Reply-To: <00d601c9ae20$b281b040$178510c0$@com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009032608021106871349f7fa@msapiro>

Brian Carpenter wrote:
>
>I have a strange issue affecting a client's mailing list. It seems the
>mailman server is repeatedly removing an e-mail address due to excessive
>bounces. I see this in the subscribe log file:
>
>Mar 22 20:38:04 2009 (26386) listname_list.domain.com: deleted
>email at verizon.net; disabled address
>Mar 22 20:38:04 2009 (26386) listname_list.domain.com: email at verizon.net
>auto-unsubscribed [reason: BYBOUNCE]
>Mar 22 20:53:06 2009 (24019) listname_list.domain.com: deleted
>email at verizon.net; disabled address
>Mar 22 20:53:06 2009 (24019) listname_list.domain.com: email at verizon.net
>auto-unsubscribed [reason: BYBOUNCE]
>Mar 22 21:08:08 2009 (29528) listname_list.domain.com: deleted
>email at verizon.net; disabled address
>Mar 22 21:08:08 2009 (29528) listname_list.domain.com: email at verizon.net
>auto-unsubscribed [reason: BYBOUNCE]
>Mar 22 21:23:10 2009 (1713) listname_list.domain.com: deleted
>email at verizon.net; disabled address
>Mar 22 21:23:10 2009 (1713) listname_list.domain.com: email at verizon.net
>auto-unsubscribed [reason: BYBOUNCE]
>Mar 22 21:38:11 2009 (5212) listname_list.domain.com: deleted
>email at verizon.net; disabled address
>Mar 22 21:38:11 2009 (5212) listname_list.domain.com: email at verizon.net
>auto-unsubscribed [reason: BYBOUNCE]
>Mar 22 21:53:13 2009 (7199) listname_list.domain.com: deleted
>email at verizon.net; disabled address
>Mar 22 21:53:13 2009 (7199) listname_list.domain.com: email at verizon.net
>auto-unsubscribed [reason: BYBOUNCE]
>Mar 22 22:08:14 2009 (10748) listname_list.domain.com: deleted
>email at verizon.net; disabled address
>
>These entries actually go on for about 3 days, and seem to occur in the late
>evening/ early morning hours. Since the administrator of the list is
>notified when a member is removed due to bounces, he keeps receiving
>repeated notices regarding the same e-mail address.


First of all, his bounce proccessing is too strict. He has
bounce_score_threshold <= 1 and bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 0
so the member is removed on the first bounce.

There also appears to be some kind of SMTP delivery problem causing
intermittent bounces. Check your MTA logs and Mailman's smtp-failure
log to see if you can determine what's happening.

The puzzle is how does the same address keep getting re-subscribed so
it can be unsubscribed again.

One curious thing about the above subscribe log entries: they occur at
15 minute intervals, which is normal for BounceRunner bounce queue
processing, but each one has a different PID. Could it be that
BounceRunner is dying and restarting each time? Check Mailman's error
and qrunner logs. Maybe what I say about settings above isn't it at
all. Maybe there are people at the threshold, and some processing
glitch which prevents the runner from saving the list after the
unsubscribe.
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 26 16:05:12 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:05:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] some messages missing from archive
In-Reply-To: <49CB9838.40507@networktest.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903260805120062a15f6b8a@msapiro>

David Newman wrote:
>
>Most messages make it into the archives but a few do not. I've pasted
>below a sample of a message that didn't make it to the archive. I
>suspect that it might be related to Postfix's message handling but am
>not sure what's missing from the offending messages.


The message below wasn't posted to the list. It is an off-list reply to
you only.


>((addresses, domains and IP addresses anonymized))
>
>Return-Path: <user at example.com>
>X-Original-To: myname at mydomain.tld
>Delivered-To: myname at mydomain.tld
>Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
>	by mail.mydomain.tld (Postfix) with ESMTP id 616F15B3159
>	for <myname at mydomain.tld>; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:16:21 -0800 (PST)
>X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at localdomain
>X-Spam-Flag: NO
>X-Spam-Score: -1.671
>X-Spam-Level:
>X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.671 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31
>	tests=[AWL=-0.929, BAYES_20=-0.74, SPF_PASS=-0.001]
>Received: from mail.mydomain.tld ([127.0.0.1])
>	by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
>	with ESMTP id kkMkBnOO63bs for <myname at mydomain.tld>;
>	Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:16:19 -0800 (PST)
>Received: from mx.otherdomain.net (blackhelicopters.otherdomain.net
>[666.1.2.3])
>	by mail.mydomain.tld (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BDC15B3157
>	for <myname at mydomain.tld>; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:16:19 -0800 (PST)
>Received: from elvis.example.net (dsl1-2-3.yetanotherdomain.net [1.2.3.666])
>	(Authenticated sender: someuser at example.com)
>	by mx.otherdomain.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A02D196841
>	for <myname at mydomain.tld>; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:16:18 -0800 (PST)
>Message-Id: <23A25183-7F35-4D19-B528-53C0A6D4F73B at example.com>
>From: someuser example <someuser at example.com>
>To: myname <myname at mydomain.tld>
>In-Reply-To: <4969A68C.8000900 at mydomain.tld>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3)
>Subject: Re: [myname members] Message size limits (was: (no subject))
>Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:16:17 -0800
>References: <0089FC87E3644D2895590076717851F9 at Wizardry>
><52F0A1B1F834C54DB1C0CF32182D6E9B03D7B307 at sagan.aperio.int>
><4969A68C.8000900 at mydomain.tld>
>X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3)
>
>On Jan 10, 2009, at 11:58 AM, myname wrote:
>
>> With due respect, I think it's a lousy idea
>
>+1
>
>-someuser
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mark%40msapiro.net
>
>Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 26 17:22:27 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:22:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribers Receiving Multiple Emails
In-Reply-To: <84300AC28C6248AB9A038AC5CBCB1427@gb090971>
Message-ID: <PC187020090326092227043781603090@msapiro>

Nyrobi Collins wrote:

>We are having an issue with subscribers receiving three of the same emails
>every time I send an email.  It doesn't happen to every subscriber, but
>those who get multiples always get three.
> 
>Any suggestions for how to eliminate this?


Unless the affected people are actually on the list 3 times with 3
different addresses or on 3 different lists which all get the same
post, this is almost certainly not a Mailman issue.

This is sometimes caused by rules in the user's MUA (client) filing the
same message in multiple places. Otherwise it is probably some glitch
in SMTP delivery somewhere.

The first step is to compare the chain of Received: headers in each of
the 3 message copies. Where they diverge is where the duplication
occurred.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brian at emwd.com  Thu Mar 26 20:00:15 2009
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 15:00:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange bounce removal issue
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009032608021106871349f7fa@msapiro>
References: <00d601c9ae20$b281b040$178510c0$@com>
	<PC18702009032608021106871349f7fa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <017b01c9ae45$1ac40440$504c0cc0$@com>

> all, his bounce proccessing is too strict. He has
> bounce_score_threshold <= 1 and bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 0
> so the member is removed on the first bounce.

Thanks for the reply Mark. I checked the bounce settings and the
bounce_score_threshold is set to 5 and bounce warnings set to 0.

> 
> There also appears to be some kind of SMTP delivery problem causing
> intermittent bounces. Check your MTA logs and Mailman's smtp-failure
> log to see if you can determine what's happening.

I checked the log file and the 2 e-mail addresses that this issue occurred
with are both non-existing e-mail accounts according to the exim_mainlog
file.

> 
> The puzzle is how does the same address keep getting re-subscribed so
> it can be unsubscribed again.

See that is the mystery.

> 
> One curious thing about the above subscribe log entries: they occur at
> 15 minute intervals, which is normal for BounceRunner bounce queue
> processing, but each one has a different PID. Could it be that
> BounceRunner is dying and restarting each time? Check Mailman's error
> and qrunner logs. Maybe what I say about settings above isn't it at
> all. Maybe there are people at the threshold, and some processing
> glitch which prevents the runner from saving the list after the
> unsubscribe.

I will look at those and see if I can dig up anything.

Thanks again.

Regards,
Brian
--------------------------------------
EMWD.com -  'Powered by Techies'
Blog.emwd.com - "Curious comments from a web hosting techie"


From dnewman at networktest.com  Thu Mar 26 21:57:56 2009
From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 13:57:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] some messages missing from archive
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903260805120062a15f6b8a@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200903260805120062a15f6b8a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49CBEC54.6080208@networktest.com>

On 3/26/09 8:05 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> David Newman wrote:
>> Most messages make it into the archives but a few do not. I've pasted
>> below a sample of a message that didn't make it to the archive. I
>> suspect that it might be related to Postfix's message handling but am
>> not sure what's missing from the offending messages.
> 
> 
> The message below wasn't posted to the list. It is an off-list reply to
> you only.
> 

Well, that will teach me not to post before finishing morning coffee. Sorry.

Here's another message that actually was cc:'d to a list but didn't make
it into the archives. This subscriber is a frequent poster and other
messages of his exist in the archives.

It's HTML mail but then so is all this subscriber's other mail.

Thanks again for any clues on what caused this not to get archived.

dn


((addresses, domains and IP addresses anonymized))


Return-Path: <members-bounces+user=example.org at example.org>
X-Original-To: user at example.org
Delivered-To: user at example.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by mail.example.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F3335B31A7
	for <user at example.org>; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:54:21 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.example.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.597
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.597 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31
	tests=[AWL=0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001]
Received: from mail.example.org ([127.0.0.1])
	by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id UqCM5fJ2cnnr for <user at example.org>;
	Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:54:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail.example.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by mail.example.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99DB35B3221
	for <user at example.org>; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:53:02 -0700 (PDT)
X-Original-To: members at example.org
Delivered-To: members at mail.example.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by mail.example.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF2CE5B31A5
	for <members at example.org>; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:52:36 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.example.org
Received: from mail.example.org ([127.0.0.1])
	by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id xitN3rRm3SCk for <members at example.org>;
	Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:52:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from obfuscatedhost.hotmail.com (obfuscatedhost.hotmail.com
	[666.1.2.3])
	by mail.example.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6F295B3161
	for <members at example.org>; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:52:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from COL113-W22 ([65.55.34.200]) by obfuscatedhost.hotmail.com
	with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959);
	Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:52:29 -0700
Message-ID: <COL113-W22FAD79423AE3666EAAE42CC900 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
	boundary="_188a48b0-e5ed-4ad3-9ca7-309c67e769c9_"
X-Originating-IP: [98.149.111.105]
From: George Washington <gw at msn.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:52:29 -0700
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <2868DBC10E894FC7B7CF953D5BCAF832 at Wizardry>
References: <2868DBC10E894FC7B7CF953D5BCAF832 at Wizardry>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Mar 2009 04:52:29.0023 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[7FF8E6F0:01C9AD05]
Subject: [members] the subject of my message '09
X-BeenThere: members at example.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10
Precedence: list
Cc: user member list <members at example.org>
List-Id: user member list <members.example.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://mail.example.org/mailman/options/members>,
	<mailto:members-request at example.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mail.example.org/mailman/private/members>
List-Post: <mailto:members at example.org>
List-Help: <mailto:members-request at example.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://mail.example.org/mailman/listinfo/members>,
	<mailto:members-request at example.org?subject=subscribe>
To: user webmaster <user at example.org>
Sender: members-bounces+user=example.org at example.org
Errors-To: members-bounces+user=example.org at example.org

--_188a48b0-e5ed-4ad3-9ca7-309c67e769c9_
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="_aa51c9db-94e9-48fd-aa05-1cba2e9cab37_"

--_aa51c9db-94e9-48fd-aa05-1cba2e9cab37_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



((message text omitted))

--_aa51c9db-94e9-48fd-aa05-1cba2e9cab37_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


<html>
<head>
<style>
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px=3B
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 10pt=3B
font-family:Verdana
}
</style>
</head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'>

((html version omitted))


</body>
</html>=

--_aa51c9db-94e9-48fd-aa05-1cba2e9cab37_--

--_188a48b0-e5ed-4ad3-9ca7-309c67e769c9_
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ATT00000"

X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCm1lbWJlcnMg
bWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQptZW1iZXJzQGN2Y2Jpa2Uub3JnDQpodHRwczovL21haWwuY3ZjYmlrZS5v
cmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9tZW1iZXJzDQo=

--_188a48b0-e5ed-4ad3-9ca7-309c67e769c9_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

_______________________________________________
members mailing list
members at example.org
https://mail.example.org/mailman/listinfo/members

--_188a48b0-e5ed-4ad3-9ca7-309c67e769c9_--

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 26 22:49:14 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 14:49:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] some messages missing from archive
In-Reply-To: <49CBEC54.6080208@networktest.com>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903261449140593c82ff39f@msapiro>

David Newman wrote:
>
>Here's another message that actually was cc:'d to a list but didn't make
>it into the archives. This subscriber is a frequent poster and other
>messages of his exist in the archives.
>
>It's HTML mail but then so is all this subscriber's other mail.
>
>Thanks again for any clues on what caused this not to get archived.
>
>dn


OK. This one came from the list. There are only a few reasons why a
particular post would not be archived, assuming archiving is working
in general.

1) There could be something in this particular post that throws an
exception in ArchRunner. This is unlikely, but check Mailman's error
log to be sure.

2) If a post contains an "X-Archive: No" or an "X_No_Archive:" header,
it won't be archived. This doesn't seem to be the case here.

3) If the post's Message-ID is the same as that of an already archived
post, it will be in the LISTNAME.mbox file, but it won't be in the
pipermail archive. grep Mailman's post log for this post's Message-ID

grep "<COL113-W22FAD79423AE3666EAAE42CC900 at phx.gbl>" /path/to/logs/post

and see if there is more than one post with this Message-ID (don't
forget to check rotated logs as well if any). You can also see if this
post in in archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox which will
tell you that Mailman tried to archive it. Note that two different
messages should never have the same Message-ID, but ...



>((addresses, domains and IP addresses anonymized))
>
>
>Return-Path: <members-bounces+user=example.org at example.org>
>X-Original-To: user at example.org
>Delivered-To: user at example.org
>Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
>	by mail.example.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F3335B31A7
>	for <user at example.org>; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:54:21 -0700 (PDT)
>X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.example.org
>X-Spam-Flag: NO
>X-Spam-Score: -2.597
>X-Spam-Level:
>X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.597 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31
>	tests=[AWL=0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001]
>Received: from mail.example.org ([127.0.0.1])
>	by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
>	with ESMTP id UqCM5fJ2cnnr for <user at example.org>;
>	Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:54:20 -0700 (PDT)
>Received: from mail.example.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
>	by mail.example.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99DB35B3221
>	for <user at example.org>; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:53:02 -0700 (PDT)
>X-Original-To: members at example.org
>Delivered-To: members at mail.example.org
>Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
>	by mail.example.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF2CE5B31A5
>	for <members at example.org>; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:52:36 -0700 (PDT)
>X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.example.org
>Received: from mail.example.org ([127.0.0.1])
>	by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
>	with ESMTP id xitN3rRm3SCk for <members at example.org>;
>	Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:52:33 -0700 (PDT)
>Received: from obfuscatedhost.hotmail.com (obfuscatedhost.hotmail.com
>	[666.1.2.3])
>	by mail.example.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6F295B3161
>	for <members at example.org>; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:52:33 -0700 (PDT)
>Received: from COL113-W22 ([65.55.34.200]) by obfuscatedhost.hotmail.com
>	with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959);
>	Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:52:29 -0700
>Message-ID: <COL113-W22FAD79423AE3666EAAE42CC900 at phx.gbl>
>Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
>	boundary="_188a48b0-e5ed-4ad3-9ca7-309c67e769c9_"
>X-Originating-IP: [98.149.111.105]
>From: George Washington <gw at msn.com>
>Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:52:29 -0700
>Importance: Normal
>In-Reply-To: <2868DBC10E894FC7B7CF953D5BCAF832 at Wizardry>
>References: <2868DBC10E894FC7B7CF953D5BCAF832 at Wizardry>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Mar 2009 04:52:29.0023 (UTC)
>	FILETIME=[7FF8E6F0:01C9AD05]
>Subject: [members] the subject of my message '09
>X-BeenThere: members at example.org
>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10
>Precedence: list
>Cc: user member list <members at example.org>
>List-Id: user member list <members.example.org>
>List-Unsubscribe: <https://mail.example.org/mailman/options/members>,
>	<mailto:members-request at example.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>List-Archive: <https://mail.example.org/mailman/private/members>
>List-Post: <mailto:members at example.org>
>List-Help: <mailto:members-request at example.org?subject=help>
>List-Subscribe: <https://mail.example.org/mailman/listinfo/members>,
>	<mailto:members-request at example.org?subject=subscribe>
>To: user webmaster <user at example.org>
>Sender: members-bounces+user=example.org at example.org
>Errors-To: members-bounces+user=example.org at example.org
>
<body snipped>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dnewman at networktest.com  Fri Mar 27 06:30:16 2009
From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 22:30:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] some messages missing from archive
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903261449140593c82ff39f@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200903261449140593c82ff39f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49CC6468.4010606@networktest.com>

On 3/26/09 2:49 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>  There are only a few reasons why a
> particular post would not be archived, assuming archiving is working
> in general.

Archiving is working in general.

> 
> 1) There could be something in this particular post that throws an
> exception in ArchRunner. This is unlikely, but check Mailman's error
> log to be sure.
> 
> 2) If a post contains an "X-Archive: No" or an "X_No_Archive:" header,
> it won't be archived. This doesn't seem to be the case here.
> 
> 3) If the post's Message-ID is the same as that of an already archived
> post, it will be in the LISTNAME.mbox file, but it won't be in the
> pipermail archive. grep Mailman's post log for this post's Message-ID
> 
> grep "<COL113-W22FAD79423AE3666EAAE42CC900 at phx.gbl>" /path/to/logs/post
> 
> and see if there is more than one post with this Message-ID (don't
> forget to check rotated logs as well if any).

Went 0 for 3 on these.

> You can also see if this
> post in in archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox which will
> tell you that Mailman tried to archive it. Note that two different
> messages should never have the same Message-ID, but ...

And the message is the LISTNAME.mbox file.

Another post from this same subscriber today also failed to make it into
the archive. Any other places to check?

Many thanks

dn


> 
> 
> 
>> ((addresses, domains and IP addresses anonymized))
>>
>>
>> Return-Path: <members-bounces+user=example.org at example.org>
>> X-Original-To: user at example.org
>> Delivered-To: user at example.org
>> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
>> 	by mail.example.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F3335B31A7
>> 	for <user at example.org>; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:54:21 -0700 (PDT)
>> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.example.org
>> X-Spam-Flag: NO
>> X-Spam-Score: -2.597
>> X-Spam-Level:
>> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.597 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31
>> 	tests=[AWL=0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001]
>> Received: from mail.example.org ([127.0.0.1])
>> 	by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
>> 	with ESMTP id UqCM5fJ2cnnr for <user at example.org>;
>> 	Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:54:20 -0700 (PDT)
>> Received: from mail.example.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
>> 	by mail.example.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99DB35B3221
>> 	for <user at example.org>; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:53:02 -0700 (PDT)
>> X-Original-To: members at example.org
>> Delivered-To: members at mail.example.org
>> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
>> 	by mail.example.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF2CE5B31A5
>> 	for <members at example.org>; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:52:36 -0700 (PDT)
>> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.example.org
>> Received: from mail.example.org ([127.0.0.1])
>> 	by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
>> 	with ESMTP id xitN3rRm3SCk for <members at example.org>;
>> 	Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:52:33 -0700 (PDT)
>> Received: from obfuscatedhost.hotmail.com (obfuscatedhost.hotmail.com
>> 	[666.1.2.3])
>> 	by mail.example.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6F295B3161
>> 	for <members at example.org>; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:52:33 -0700 (PDT)
>> Received: from COL113-W22 ([65.55.34.200]) by obfuscatedhost.hotmail.com
>> 	with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959);
>> 	Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:52:29 -0700
>> Message-ID: <COL113-W22FAD79423AE3666EAAE42CC900 at phx.gbl>
>> Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
>> 	boundary="_188a48b0-e5ed-4ad3-9ca7-309c67e769c9_"
>> X-Originating-IP: [98.149.111.105]
>> From: George Washington <gw at msn.com>
>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:52:29 -0700
>> Importance: Normal
>> In-Reply-To: <2868DBC10E894FC7B7CF953D5BCAF832 at Wizardry>
>> References: <2868DBC10E894FC7B7CF953D5BCAF832 at Wizardry>
>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Mar 2009 04:52:29.0023 (UTC)
>> 	FILETIME=[7FF8E6F0:01C9AD05]
>> Subject: [members] the subject of my message '09
>> X-BeenThere: members at example.org
>> X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10
>> Precedence: list
>> Cc: user member list <members at example.org>
>> List-Id: user member list <members.example.org>
>> List-Unsubscribe: <https://mail.example.org/mailman/options/members>,
>> 	<mailto:members-request at example.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>> List-Archive: <https://mail.example.org/mailman/private/members>
>> List-Post: <mailto:members at example.org>
>> List-Help: <mailto:members-request at example.org?subject=help>
>> List-Subscribe: <https://mail.example.org/mailman/listinfo/members>,
>> 	<mailto:members-request at example.org?subject=subscribe>
>> To: user webmaster <user at example.org>
>> Sender: members-bounces+user=example.org at example.org
>> Errors-To: members-bounces+user=example.org at example.org
>>
> <body snipped>
> 


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 27 17:07:44 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:07:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] some messages missing from archive
In-Reply-To: <49CC6468.4010606@networktest.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009032709074402653f3c5535@msapiro>

David Newman wrote:

>On 3/26/09 2:49 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> You can also see if this
>> post in in archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox which will
>> tell you that Mailman tried to archive it. Note that two different
>> messages should never have the same Message-ID, but ...
>
>And the message is the LISTNAME.mbox file.
>
>Another post from this same subscriber today also failed to make it into
>the archive. Any other places to check?


You can look in the archives/private/LISTNAME/yyyy-mmmm.txt file and
see if it is there. In fact you can do

>  grep "COL113-W22FAD79423AE3666EAAE42CC900 at phx.gbl" archives/private/LISTNAME/*.txt

And see if you can find it in any month's .txt file.

The archiving code first appends the message to the LISTNAME.mbox file
and then adds it to the pipermail archive which includes the periodic
.txt file. If the message gets as far as being appended to
LISTNAME.mbox, only a processing exception (which should be logged) or
the message-id already existing in the archive should prevent it's
being added.

In fact, you could grep the LISTNAME.mbox for the message-id to see if
there's a duplicate there.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From drew.tenenholz at isid.org  Fri Mar 27 20:37:14 2009
From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 15:37:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives and International Character Sets (Mailman
	2.1.11)
Message-ID: <p06240841c5f2d83020eb@[192.168.209.10]>

Guys --

I have a problem with the monthly archives from Mailman 2.1.11 (using 
Pipermail 0.09 [default]) and wonder if there is any help available. 
I've read several FAQs, but no luck in understanding the problem yet.

The list is a announce-only type in Russian (Cyrillic), but the 
default language is set to English (so I can read the admin pages and 
complete the necessary tasks).  As I believe Mark mentioned before, 
this means that the messages themselves (sent by the Russian 
Moderator team using Outlook Express or webmail and either 
windows-1251 or KOI8-R encondings) arrive at Mailman and are 
distributed in email as with their original encodings.  However, the 
mailman archive in this configuration seems to save the messages as 
HTML entity codes which display fine in the Mailman archive as single 
messages, but are unreadable once they get to the monthly archive 
(all "?????").

1) What can be done to get the monthly archive in a readable format?
2) Is there any way to correct the existing monthly archives?

Thanks in Advance (and have a good weekend),
Drew Tenenholz

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 27 21:09:09 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:09:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives and International Character Sets
	(Mailman2.1.11)
In-Reply-To: <p06240841c5f2d83020eb@[192.168.209.10]>
Message-ID: <PC187020090327130909056295174efb@msapiro>

Drew Tenenholz wrote:
>
>The list is a announce-only type in Russian (Cyrillic), but the 
>default language is set to English (so I can read the admin pages and 
>complete the necessary tasks).  As I believe Mark mentioned before, 
>this means that the messages themselves (sent by the Russian 
>Moderator team using Outlook Express or webmail and either 
>windows-1251 or KOI8-R encondings) arrive at Mailman and are 
>distributed in email as with their original encodings.  However, the 
>mailman archive in this configuration seems to save the messages as 
>HTML entity codes which display fine in the Mailman archive as single 
>messages, but are unreadable once they get to the monthly archive 
>(all "?????").


By monthly archive, I assume you mean the .txt and/or .txt.gz files. Is
that correct?


>1) What can be done to get the monthly archive in a readable format?


Either set the list's preferred language to Russian (and navigate
through the admin pages by position), or set Mailman's character set
for English to UTF-8 by putting the following line in mm_cfg.py.

add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'utf-8', 'ltr')


>2) Is there any way to correct the existing monthly archives?


The messages in the cumulative
archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file are all in their
original charset and encoding, so if you do 1), you can then rebuild
the archive with bin/arch --wipe and that will rebuild the .txt files
with the new charset.

One thing to be aware of though is that although the monthly .txt files
look like .mbox files, they don't contain complete message headers. In
particular, even though the character set may now be utf-8 or koi8-r,
there are no content-type or other headers in the file to so indicate.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ricardo at americasnet.com  Fri Mar 27 03:16:53 2009
From: ricardo at americasnet.com (Ricardo Kleemann)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 19:16:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem,
	list prefix suddenly stopped being inserted
Message-ID: <7D5B99AFBE7C43D6B6651C4E02296CEC@ricardolaptop>

Hi,

I have a number of lists running and they worked fine with the subject prefix for each list.

Suddenly all the distributed messages are no longer showing the subject prefix and I don't understand what could be causing this. 

I'm not sure how to debug it, I don't see any evident errors and the only issue I see is related to the subject.

Thanks
Ricardo

From sdagostino at tropotel.net  Thu Mar 26 16:39:21 2009
From: sdagostino at tropotel.net (Salvatore D'Agostino)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:39:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce updating
Message-ID: <49CBA1A9.2080508@tropotel.net>

Hi all,

I have a question about the mailman bounce procedure. Is it possible to 
obtain a list of bounces that were removed from the list due to a high 
"score"? Essentially what I want to do is create a list of members that 
were removed from the list due to bounces and present that list to the 
list owner. Is there a built in function that can do it, or is there a 
way I can do it manually? If this question has already been addressed in 
the FAQ, I apologize, I might have missed it (there were a lot of 
topics). If you can just point me in the right direction in that case, I 
would be very grateful.

Cheers,

Sam

From ulf at openlane.com  Thu Mar 26 09:30:09 2009
From: ulf at openlane.com (Ulf Zimmermann)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:30:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admindb just ending with premature end of script,
	no error message
Message-ID: <867B874CEC2101449E81092D4B3DB7B48589B5@msmpk02.corp.autc.com>

Our mailman/data directory has a bunch of heldmsg- files.  One of the lists has over 5,000 currently. Whenever we try to access "Tend to pending administration requests" it never returns. Apache error log shows just:

[Thu Mar 26 01:17:25 2009] [error] [client 172.18.42.241] Premature end of script headers: admindb, referer: http://XXXXXX/mailman/admin/XXXX/privacy/sender

An strace of the python scripts/driver admindb shows it first scanning all the messages in data/heldmsg-* (gettimeofday, stat64, write and unlink, mmap2) followed by a whole lot of just mmap calls (mmap2 and munmap). It finally gets a SIGTERM and closes out with:

munmap(0x9eadc000, 9416704)             = 0
mmap2(NULL, 9424896, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x9d8e3000
munmap(0x9e1e0000, 9420800)             = 0
mmap2(NULL, 9428992, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x9cfe5000
--- SIGTERM (Terminated) @ 0 (0) ---
rt_sigaction(SIGTERM, NULL, {0x19b68a, [], SA_RESTORER, 0xdf2898}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGTERM, {0x19b68a, [], SA_RESTORER, 0xc37898}, NULL, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGTERM, NULL, {0x19b68a, [], SA_RESTORER, 0xc37898}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGTERM, {0x19b68a, [], SA_RESTORER, 0xdf2898}, NULL, 8) = 0
sigreturn()                             = ? (mask now [])
gettimeofday({1238052580, 873374}, NULL) = 0
utimes("/var/lock/mailman/XXXX.lock.ml.autc.com.4472.0", {1238070580, 873373}) = 0
stat64("/var/lock/mailman/XXXX.lock", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0664, st_size=47, ...}) = 0
open("/var/lock/mailman/XXXX.lock", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 5
fstat64(5, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0664, st_size=47, ...}) = 0
fstat64(5, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0664, st_size=47, ...}) = 0
_llseek(5, 0, [0], SEEK_CUR)            = 0
fstat64(5, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0664, st_size=47, ...}) = 0
mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x9cfe4000
_llseek(5, 0, [0], SEEK_CUR)            = 0
read(5, "/var/lock/mailman/XXXX.lock.ml."..., 4096) = 47
read(5, "", 4096)                       = 0
close(5)                                = 0
munmap(0x9cfe4000, 4096)                = 0
unlink("/var/lock/mailman/XXXX.lock")  = 0
unlink("/var/lock/mailman/XXXX.lock.ml.autc.com.4472.0") = 0
munmap(0x9cfe5000, 9428992)             = 0
gettimeofday({1238052580, 901556}, NULL) = 0
utimes("/var/lock/mailman/XXXX.lock.ml.autc.com.4472.0", {1238070580, 901556}) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
stat64("/var/lock/mailman/XXXX.lock", 0xbff59360) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
unlink("/var/lock/mailman/XXXX.lock.ml.autc.com.4472.0") = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
munmap(0x9d8e3000, 9424896)             = 0
close(3)                                = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGINT, NULL, {0x19b68a, [], SA_RESTORER, 0xdf2898}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGINT, {SIG_DFL}, NULL, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGTERM, NULL, {0x19b68a, [], SA_RESTORER, 0xdf2898}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGTERM, {SIG_DFL}, NULL, 8) = 0
munmap(0xb71d5000, 397312)              = 0
gettimeofday({1238052581, 296099}, NULL) = 0
utimes("/var/lock/mailman/XXXX.lock.ml.autc.com.4472.0", {1238070581, 296098}) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
stat64("/var/lock/mailman/XXXX.lock", 0xbff59350) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
unlink("/var/lock/mailman/XXXX.lock.ml.autc.com.4472.0") = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
close(4)                                = 0
brk(0x9401000)                          = 0x9401000
futex(0x809c740, FUTEX_WAKE, 1)         = 0
futex(0x809a248, FUTEX_WAKE, 1)         = 0
futex(0x80935b0, FUTEX_WAKE, 1)         = 0
futex(0x808c198, FUTEX_WAKE, 1)         = 0
futex(0x808c198, FUTEX_WAKE, 1)         = 0
futex(0x808c198, FUTEX_WAKE, 1)         = 0
exit_group(0)                           = ?

I have tried to move all the heldmsg- away for this list, but even then it never comes back.

Anyone have an idea how to fix this?

System is RedHat EL4 with 2.1.5.1-34.rhel4.3, which isn't the latest but still.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 28 01:34:34 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:34:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admindb just ending with premature end of
	script, no error message
In-Reply-To: <867B874CEC2101449E81092D4B3DB7B48589B5@msmpk02.corp.autc.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009032717343407963f3c573e@msapiro>

Ulf Zimmermann wrote:

>Our mailman/data directory has a bunch of heldmsg- files.  One of the lists has over 5,000 currently. Whenever we try to access "Tend to pending administration requests" it never returns. Apache error log shows just:
>
>[Thu Mar 26 01:17:25 2009] [error] [client 172.18.42.241] Premature end of script headers: admindb, referer: http://XXXXXX/mailman/admin/XXXX/privacy/sender
<snip>


Because Apache kills it before it can build the admindb summary page.


>I have tried to move all the heldmsg- away for this list, but even then it never comes back.


Because that's not where the problem is. The problem is the number of
held messages in the request.pck.


>Anyone have an idea how to fix this?


If you still have the held messages, put them back and remove them with
Mailman's bin/discard per the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/nIA9>.

If you don't have the held messages, just remove the
lists/LISTNAME/request.pck file, but this will also lose any held
(un)subscriptions waiting approval.


>System is RedHat EL4 with 2.1.5.1-34.rhel4.3, which isn't the latest but still.


Too bad. If it were Mailman 2.1.6 or later, you could just set the
list's max_days_to_hold and cron/checkdbs would take care of it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 28 02:11:40 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 18:11:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem,
	list prefix suddenly stopped being inserted
In-Reply-To: <7D5B99AFBE7C43D6B6651C4E02296CEC@ricardolaptop>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903271811400515faae10ab@msapiro>

Ricardo Kleemann wrote:
>
>I have a number of lists running and they worked fine with the subject prefix for each list.
>
>Suddenly all the distributed messages are no longer showing the subject prefix and I don't understand what could be causing this. 
>
>I'm not sure how to debug it, I don't see any evident errors and the only issue I see is related to the subject.


Something changed. Did you upgrade Python? Did you upgrade Mailman? Did
the subject_prefix change? Did the list's preferred_language change?

If the supject prefixing process encounters a ValueError or
UnicodeError becayse the subject is not properly RFC2047 encoded or
the subject_prefix contains characters outside the character set of
the list's preferred language, prefixing will silently fail.

If you still can't figure it out, post the following information

The list's preferred_language.
The exact contents of the list's subject_prefix.
The full, raw headers of a message from the list.

and we will try to help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 28 02:16:38 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 18:16:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce updating
In-Reply-To: <49CBA1A9.2080508@tropotel.net>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903271816380937fdaaf18f@msapiro>

Salvatore D'Agostino wrote:
>
>I have a question about the mailman bounce procedure. Is it possible to 
>obtain a list of bounces that were removed from the list due to a high 
>"score"? Essentially what I want to do is create a list of members that 
>were removed from the list due to bounces and present that list to the 
>list owner. Is there a built in function that can do it, or is there a 
>way I can do it manually? If this question has already been addressed in 
>the FAQ, I apologize, I might have missed it (there were a lot of 
>topics). If you can just point me in the right direction in that case, I 
>would be very grateful.


The easiest way to do this would be to create some script to sumarize
this information from Mailman's bounce log.

You can obtain a list of members whose delivery has been disabled by
bounce processing who haven't yet been removed from the list with
Mailman's

  bin/list_members --nomail=bybounce LISTNAME

but this won't get those whove already been removed. You have to get
that from the bounce or subscribe logs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Mar 28 07:40:24 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 15:40:24 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives and International Character
	Sets	(Mailman2.1.11)
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090327130909056295174efb@msapiro>
References: <p06240841c5f2d83020eb@[192.168.209.10]>
	<PC187020090327130909056295174efb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <877i2axi93.fsf@xemacs.org>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'utf-8', 'ltr')

Shouldn't this probably be default by now?  I'm usually pretty
hesitant to mess with existing defaults, but as I understand this
there's actually corrupt data in the .txt files.  This can be a real
headache for people using cPanel or whatever, right?

 > One thing to be aware of though is that although the monthly .txt files
 > look like .mbox files, they don't contain complete message headers. In
 > particular, even though the character set may now be utf-8 or koi8-r,
 > there are no content-type or other headers in the file to so
 > indicate.

"Bad Pipermail!  Baad, baaad Pipermail!"  Or am I missing something?
Shouldn't the .txt files have a simple text/plain;charset=WHATEVER
MIME Content-Type?




From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 28 16:23:36 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 08:23:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives and International Character
	Sets(Mailman2.1.11)
In-Reply-To: <877i2axi93.fsf@xemacs.org>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903280823360078f07e7fb2@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Mark Sapiro writes:
>
> > add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'utf-8', 'ltr')
>
>Shouldn't this probably be default by now?


Yes, it should. But, we have superstitious beliefs that something
unintended will be broken by this. Yet, I continue to suggest it as a
workaround, and I've never recieved a report of a problem, so I will
at least test it as default for Mailman 2.2.


> > One thing to be aware of though is that although the monthly .txt files
> > look like .mbox files, they don't contain complete message headers. In
> > particular, even though the character set may now be utf-8 or koi8-r,
> > there are no content-type or other headers in the file to so
> > indicate.
>
>"Bad Pipermail!  Baad, baaad Pipermail!"  Or am I missing something?
>Shouldn't the .txt files have a simple text/plain;charset=WHATEVER
>MIME Content-Type?


The issue is the .txt files for public archives are served directly by
the web browser, not through a Mailman CGI, so it's entirely up to the
web browser to specify the charset.

We could put a Content-Type: at the head of the file, but in most
cases, this would just be served as part of the text. Still, it would
be useful information for the recipient, so I will look at that too.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at list.org  Sat Mar 28 17:05:37 2009
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 11:05:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives and International Character
	Sets(Mailman2.1.11)
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903280823360078f07e7fb2@msapiro>
References: <PC1870200903280823360078f07e7fb2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <D4F2718A-B6B4-4A8B-A8D6-A043497E4FA5@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mar 28, 2009, at 10:23 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>
>> Mark Sapiro writes:
>>
>>> add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'utf-8', 'ltr')
>>
>> Shouldn't this probably be default by now?
>
>
> Yes, it should. But, we have superstitious beliefs that something
> unintended will be broken by this. Yet, I continue to suggest it as a
> workaround, and I've never recieved a report of a problem, so I will
> at least test it as default for Mailman 2.2.

+1 for making this the default in 2.2 (and 3.0).  I do have concerns  
about changing this in 2.1 just because it's /potentially/ risky and  
we should be ultra-conservative with the 2.1 tree.

BARRY

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=h1s4
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From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Mar 28 18:50:19 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 02:50:19 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives and International
	Character	Sets(Mailman2.1.11)
In-Reply-To: <D4F2718A-B6B4-4A8B-A8D6-A043497E4FA5@list.org>
References: <PC1870200903280823360078f07e7fb2@msapiro>
	<D4F2718A-B6B4-4A8B-A8D6-A043497E4FA5@list.org>
Message-ID: <87skkxwn8k.fsf@xemacs.org>

Barry Warsaw writes:
 > On Mar 28, 2009, at 10:23 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

 > > Yes, it should. But, we have superstitious beliefs that something
 > > unintended will be broken by [setting the default encoding to
 > > UTF-8].

Oh, me too! The Ghost of Charsets Past will undoubtedly rise up to
remind us of our sins. ;-)

 > we should be ultra-conservative with the 2.1 tree.

Yes indeed.  But that shouldn't be a constraint for 2.2 and definitely
not for 3.0.

From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Sun Mar 29 10:43:26 2009
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 10:43:26 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives and International
	Character	Sets(Mailman2.1.11)
In-Reply-To: <PC1870200903280823360078f07e7fb2@msapiro>
References: <877i2axi93.fsf@xemacs.org>
	<PC1870200903280823360078f07e7fb2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20090329084326.GG521@mail.incertum.net>

* Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> 
>> Mark Sapiro writes:
>> 
>>> add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'utf-8', 'ltr')
>> 
>> Shouldn't this probably be default by now?
> 
> 
> Yes, it should. But, we have superstitious beliefs that something
> unintended will be broken by this. Yet, I continue to suggest it as a
> workaround, and I've never recieved a report of a problem, so I will
> at least test it as default for Mailman 2.2.

If changing a language definition like that, doesn't that mean one
will have to change the various predefined template files, all message
codes for that language and after that recreate the archive files?


Ciao
Stefan
-- 
Stefan F?rster     http://www.incertum.net/     Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9
"The brain is a wonderful organ. It starts working the moment you get up in
the morning, and does not stop until you get into the office."
    -- Robert Frost (1874-1963)

From turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp  Sun Mar 29 16:10:26 2009
From: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 23:10:26 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives and
	International	Character	Sets(Mailman2.1.11)
In-Reply-To: <20090329084326.GG521@mail.incertum.net>
References: <877i2axi93.fsf@xemacs.org>
	<PC1870200903280823360078f07e7fb2@msapiro>
	<20090329084326.GG521@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <87myb4whbh.fsf@xemacs.org>

Stefan F?rster writes:

 > If changing a language definition like that, doesn't that mean one
 > will have to change the various predefined template files, all message
 > codes for that language and after that recreate the archive files?

Normally, yes.  But this is *English*.  It's reasonably likely that
the template files etc. are already 100% ASCII, encoded in ASCII, and
thus encoded in UTF-8.

Recreating the archive files, yes.  But they're most likely currently
broken anyway.

From dnewman at networktest.com  Mon Mar 30 06:47:00 2009
From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 21:47:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] some messages missing from archive
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009032709074402653f3c5535@msapiro>
References: <PC18702009032709074402653f3c5535@msapiro>
Message-ID: <49D04EC4.40606@networktest.com>

On 3/27/09 9:07 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> David Newman wrote:
> 
>> On 3/26/09 2:49 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>> You can also see if this
>>> post in in archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox which will
>>> tell you that Mailman tried to archive it. Note that two different
>>> messages should never have the same Message-ID, but ...
>> And the message is the LISTNAME.mbox file.
>>
>> Another post from this same subscriber today also failed to make it into
>> the archive. Any other places to check?
> 
> 
> You can look in the archives/private/LISTNAME/yyyy-mmmm.txt file and
> see if it is there. In fact you can do
> 
>>  grep "COL113-W22FAD79423AE3666EAAE42CC900 at phx.gbl" archives/private/LISTNAME/*.txt
> 
> And see if you can find it in any month's .txt file.
> 
> The archiving code first appends the message to the LISTNAME.mbox file
> and then adds it to the pipermail archive which includes the periodic
> .txt file. If the message gets as far as being appended to
> LISTNAME.mbox, only a processing exception (which should be logged) or
> the message-id already existing in the archive should prevent it's
> being added.
> 
> In fact, you could grep the LISTNAME.mbox for the message-id to see if
> there's a duplicate there.

Pilot error. This poster's messages are in the archive, just not where I
expected them to be in the threaded display. Possibly this is because
the poster replied to some other message and just changed the subject,
but in any event the messages are there.

Thanks/sorry

dn


From dnovotny at redhat.com  Mon Mar 30 15:20:20 2009
From: dnovotny at redhat.com (Daniel Novotny)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 09:20:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List-Archive URL for private archives broken
In-Reply-To: <2085162387.717631238419164469.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <1104235667.717751238419220790.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com>

hello,

the mail header List-Archive for private archives does not work,
because the URL does not contain the trailing slash:

The private lists are handled by CGI /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/private which can
not handle the URL without the trailing slash properly

in Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py there is in fact a code, which
removes the slash from the URL you send in this header:
what is the purpose of this? 

a quick patch is not to remove the slash, when the archive is private:
I send the patch in the attachment

or maybe the slash-removing code can be removed entirely, but
I am not sure what it was originally for...

regards,

 Daniel Novotny

From dnovotny at redhat.com  Mon Mar 30 15:52:25 2009
From: dnovotny at redhat.com (Daniel Novotny)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 09:52:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List-Archive URL for private archives broken - the
	patch
In-Reply-To: <1104235667.717751238419220790.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <1100878671.720801238421145454.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com>

hello,

somehow, the patch in the attachment did not appear in the mailing list, sending
it here as plaintext:

diff -up mailman-2.1.12/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py.privurl mailman-2.1.12/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py
--- mailman-2.1.12/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py.privurl	2009-03-30 15:03:58.000000000 +0200
+++ mailman-2.1.12/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py	2009-03-30 15:06:45.000000000 +0200
@@ -215,7 +215,7 @@ def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
         # Add this header if we're archiving
         if mlist.archive:
             archiveurl = mlist.GetBaseArchiveURL()
-            if archiveurl.endswith('/'):
+            if archiveurl.endswith('/') and archiveurl.find("private") == -1:
                 archiveurl = archiveurl[:-1]
             headers['List-Archive'] = '<%s>' % archiveurl
     # First we delete any pre-existing headers because the RFC permits only

From cacities at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 19:56:09 2009
From: cacities at gmail.com (The League CA Cities)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 10:56:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] please remove from list
Message-ID: <7c7532580903301056t1897b112s1493d152809277cf@mail.gmail.com>

hello

please remove this email address from the list.
thank you

Doug

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 31 00:31:34 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 15:31:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List-Archive URL for private archives broken
In-Reply-To: <1104235667.717751238419220790.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009033015313403122ccf6f1a@msapiro>

Daniel Novotny wrote:
>
>the mail header List-Archive for private archives does not work,
>because the URL does not contain the trailing slash:
>
>The private lists are handled by CGI /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/private which can
>not handle the URL without the trailing slash properly
>
>in Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py there is in fact a code, which
>removes the slash from the URL you send in this header:
>what is the purpose of this? 


I don't know. It's been there since the beginning of Mailman 2.1, but I
don't know why.


>a quick patch is not to remove the slash, when the archive is private:
>I send the patch in the attachment
>
>or maybe the slash-removing code can be removed entirely, but
>I am not sure what it was originally for...


Neither am I sure what it was for. It doesn't matter much either way
for the public 'pipermail' URLs because the browser knows whether it
is serving a file or an index document and informs the browser, but it
does matter for private URLs.

In fact, I have a bigger problem with users typing archive URLs without
the slash, so I have in Apache

RewriteEngine on
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_URI}  ![.][^/]+$
RewriteRule ^/mailman/(private/.*[^/])$ http://%{HTTP_HOST}/mailman/$1/
 [L,R]

to append a slash to the end of any /mailman/private/* url that doesn't
end with a slash or a file extension.

At present, there are no more 2.1.x releases planned, but I'll stop
removing the slash for 2.2.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 31 00:33:26 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 15:33:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List-Archive URL for private archives broken -
	thepatch
In-Reply-To: <1100878671.720801238421145454.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <PC18702009033015332609842ccf71b2@msapiro>

Daniel Novotny wrote:
>
>somehow, the patch in the attachment did not appear in the mailing list, sending
>it here as plaintext:


This list's content filtering removes attachments which have MIME types
other than text/plain.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 31 00:43:06 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 15:43:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List-Archive URL for private archives broken
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009033015313403122ccf6f1a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903301543060546a104afe8@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>Neither am I sure what it was for. It doesn't matter much either way
>for the public 'pipermail' URLs because the browser knows whether it
>is serving a file or an index document and informs the browser, but it
>does matter for private URLs.


That should have been "... the web server knows ..."

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jumper99 at gmx.de  Tue Mar 31 16:31:57 2009
From: jumper99 at gmx.de (Helmut Schneider)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 16:31:57 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] To-Do-list admin
Message-ID: <8CECC51D8BD94DAE900CFE24E394C6C3@vpe.de>

Hi,

I set up a new mailman instance (2.1.11). I remeber that when I created new 
lists a mail was sent to the admin describing what he needs to add to 
/etc/aliases to make the new list work. Currently I do not recieve that 
email at the new installation. Did I forget to check a box?

Thanks, Helmut 


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 31 16:51:57 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 07:51:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] To-Do-list admin
In-Reply-To: <8CECC51D8BD94DAE900CFE24E394C6C3@vpe.de>
Message-ID: <PC18702009033107515707968e375f15@msapiro>

Helmut Schneider wrote:
>
>I set up a new mailman instance (2.1.11). I remeber that when I created new 
>lists a mail was sent to the admin describing what he needs to add to 
>/etc/aliases to make the new list work. Currently I do not recieve that 
>email at the new installation. Did I forget to check a box?


It depends on how you create the list. If you create a list from the
web or via bin/newlist without the "-q" option, the admin should be
notified.

Is Mailman running?

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 31 17:04:49 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 08:04:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] To-Do-list admin
In-Reply-To: <PC18702009033107515707968e375f15@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1870200903310804490406d9378e87@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Helmut Schneider wrote:
>>
>>I set up a new mailman instance (2.1.11). I remeber that when I created new 
>>lists a mail was sent to the admin describing what he needs to add to 
>>/etc/aliases to make the new list work. Currently I do not recieve that 
>>email at the new installation. Did I forget to check a box?
>
>
>It depends on how you create the list. If you create a list from the
>web or via bin/newlist without the "-q" option, the admin should be
>notified.
>
>Is Mailman running?
>
>See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.


In the above reply, I overlooked the fact that you were talking about
the aliases email to the owner of the site list ('mailman-owner').
This is only sent if you haven't changed the default MTA = 'Manual'
setting. If you have set MTA in mm_cfg.py to other than 'Manual', the
aliases mail will not be sent.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From CNulk at scu.edu  Tue Mar 31 22:57:31 2009
From: CNulk at scu.edu (Chris Nulk)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 13:57:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] LDAP and case-sensitive memberlist - UPDATE
Message-ID: <49D22148.C780.0050.0@scu.edu>

Hello all,

Earlier this month, I asked about an issue I was having with the LDAPMembership adaptor and case-sensitivity.  Mark Sapiro most graciously helped me with the problem including making several changes to the LDAPMemberships.py file.  Mark was an outstanding help and resource for myself, knowing as little as I do of Python.

While somewhat documented in the file, I will mention some of the changes here.

1. __members is now a dictionary keyed by LCE with CPE as the values (straight from what Mark told me :) )

2. the getMemberName() method returns None if the member has no 'cn' value.

3. I added several additional fields (which we use here) to be retrieved from the LDAP database - GivenName, PreferredName, sn, and FullName.   GivenName and sn should probably common to most LDAP databases since they generally refer to a person's given/first name and their surname/lastname.  PreferredName and FullName may not be generally available.  PreferredName is what a person prefers to be called (i.e.  Jim instead of James).  FullName is simply the Given/First name and the Surname/lastname.

4. To help support 3. above, new mm_cfg.py settings were created - LDAP_DEFAULT_GIVENNAME, LDAP_NAME_SEPARATOR, and LDAP_SURNAME_FIRST.   These settings only apply to the 'displayable' name (__member_names).
   LDAP_DEFAULT_GIVENNAME allows you to provide a default givenname for an entry without one defined (say 'Unknown') [Default value = ''].  
   LDAP_NAME_SEPARATOR allows you to specify what string of characters you want to use to separate the Given/Preferred name from the Surname/Lastname.  [Default value = ''].
   LDAP_SURNAME_FIRST allows you to specify whether the surname/lastname or the given/preferred name should be first.  [Default value = 0/False].

   When building the value for __member_names, the code first checks for 'sn'.  If found, it then checks 'preferredname', 'givenname', and LDAP_DEFAULT_NAME in order and uses the first available choice.  With both a preferred/given name and a surname/lastname, the __member_names is built according to LDAP_NAME_SEPARATOR and LDAP_SURNAME_FIRST settings.  If 'sn' is not found, then 'fullname' is checked and used if available.  If 'fullname' is not available, then 'cn' is checked and used if available.  Otherwise None is returned.

Those are the basics to the changes.

I am attaching the latest version of LDAPMemberships.py to this message.  It should be text/plain but who knows.  If the attachment is stripped and several ask for the file, I will repost with the file included in the message (if allowed by the moderator).

Thanks to all that help,

Chris


From cihany at metu.edu.tr  Mon Mar 30 15:20:05 2009
From: cihany at metu.edu.tr (Cihan Yildirim-Yucel)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 16:20:05 +0300 (WET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Password reminder on private archive login page
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.58.0903301619450.1704098@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>


Hi;

Can I put the password reminder on private archive login page? So that,
list members who want to see the archive, but do not remember their
passwords, can quickly learn their passwords. Otherwise, password
reminder is too hard to find using the links on general list info page..

Does anyone know how to do it?

Thanks in advance.
____________________
Cihan YILDIRIM-YUCEL

From sdagostino at tropotel.net  Tue Mar 31 18:59:19 2009
From: sdagostino at tropotel.net (Salvatore D'Agostino)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 12:59:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to set default list settings
Message-ID: <49D24BE7.3050106@tropotel.net>

Does anyone know where I can set the default settings for all newly 
created lists so that I won't have to always log in to the website each 
time and set them individually?

Thanks in advance =)

Sam