From chuck at blazingfun.com Fri May 1 03:00:11 2009 From: chuck at blazingfun.com (Charles Rosenberg) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:00:11 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Target individual list member with sub-addressing when sending? In-Reply-To: <49F9DE38.2010205@riverviewtech.net> References: <01a301c9c7c8$90cb77d0$b2626770$@com> <49F87523.7010105@riverviewtech.net><026d01c9c92c$b3533ad0$19f9b070$@com> <49F9DE38.2010205@riverviewtech.net> Message-ID: <200BFB19B458424EBD35527ECEA862DF@Zeus> Thanks again for the reply. They have given me some ideas to think about to make it all more streamlined. Please forgive me again for not making something clear enough in my previous reply. Grant wrote: >> 1. Create the "main" list, austrailia at lists.domain.com as an umbrella >> list. >> 2. Create an individual mailing list address for each member we want to >> get e-mail. i.e. KenYamaguchi at lists.domain.com, >> JoeTanaka at lists.domain.com, etc. and have each individual mailing list >> have only one subscriber, namely the person we want getting our e-mails. > > I don't think you will want to create a separate list for each subscriber, > that would be way over kill. The reason for giving each member a separate, individual mailing list is precisely how I was thinking of sending a mail to the "subscriber" "directly" all the while sanitzing the "designated poster's" address. I explain more below. > >> 3. Subscribe each of the "individual" mailing lists to the umbrella >> list. > > Yes. > >> 4. Continue to rewrite the mail headers to show the "designated posters" >> messages as coming from the "reply-to" address. I am already rewriting mail headers in Postfix so that ALL mail going out to the mail list, (austrailia at lists.domain.com) through Postfix(AFTER it has been processed by Mailman) shows as coming from reply-to-austrailia at domain.com As I mentioned before, using ONLY the built-in Mailman support for redirecting all replies to a specific address doesn't work for me because most of the people involved will be getting the messages on their cell phone. The cell phones here don't seem to understand the "Reply-to: " part of e-mail headers. Thus, I have to completely rewrite the headers. (Not smartphones. Japan has had cell-phone e-mail in common use for about 8-10 years now. Ask anyone in Japan for their e-mail address and they won't give you a computer-based one, but the one for their cell phone) >> 5. Configure Postfix to rewrite the from headers on the replies to the >> "reply-to" address so the "designated poster" automatically sees the >> associated "individual" mailing list for that list member. i.e. Postfix >> will rewrite kyamaguchi at docomo.ne.jp --> KenYamaguchi at lists.domain.com >> when kyamaguchi at docomo.ne.jp replies to the "reply-to" address. > > I'm thinking that Mailman may be able to do what you are wanting to do > after all. That is /IF/ we are very careful with what we do. I'm sorry that I wasn't clear with this step. What this step implies is that Postfix ALSO knows which subscriber is associated with which individual list. Postfix will check any mail coming in to the "reply-to" address and then rewrite the incoming message headers with the associated individual mailing list for that subscriber. Example: Mr. Ken Yamaguchi is a subscriber and he replies to the "reply-to" address. His cell-phone e-mail address will show up in the message's From portion when it hits the Postfix mail server. Before delivering the message on to the "designated poster" via the "reply-to" address, Postfix rewrites Mr. Ken Yamaguchi's message's From header to be that of the individual Mailman list address that was created specifically for him. Now, the message is ready to be sent off to the "designated poster" with the "updated/new" From address which is the Mailman list associated with just him- KenYamaguchi at lists.domain.com >> 6. Once the "designated poster" gets the reply, she only has to hit her >> "reply" button to reply to the reply which should go to the "individual" >> mailing list.(e.g. KenYamaguchi at lists.domain.com) > > Ok... > > Can the "designated poser" reply (from his/her ""public address) directly > to the recipient that replied to the original post? Yes, because of step 7 below, which is where I wasn't clear enough before and I apologize for. >> 7. Configure Postfix to then rewrite our "reply-to-the-reply" header to >> strip out our "designated poster's" address and replace it with the >> "reply-to" address we want all replies to go to. i.e. [From: >> designatedpostersaddress at softbank.ne.jp] --> [From: >> reply-to-address at domain.com] > > Ok. Here is where Postfix has to pull its weight again. Now, after 5 above, our "designated poster" has a message from Mr. Ken Yamaguchi, but with a From: address that goes to his individual Mailman list, NOT his direct e-mail address. When our designated poster hits "REPLY" and sends a message, of course the message will initially contain our "designated poster's" real e-mail address. That is ok because once the message gets to Postfix, before passing the message on to Mailman, Postfix will rewrite the From: headers on THIS e-mail too to change it from the "designated poster's" email address to that of the "reply-to" address. Once the From is rewritten with the "updated/new" address(the "reply-to" address) Postfix hands the now sanitized message off to Mailman which will do what is necessary to get the message to Mr. Ken Yamaguchi. The "individual" mailing list address is key to this. It forces the returning messages from the "designated poster" to go through the server where it can be sanitized. After thinking about this, since the "designated poster's" address gets sanitized in the beginning anyways, setting up the Postfix rewrite rule in step 4 carefully would also sanitize the "designated poster's" address at this step too without too much work. Either way I guess. Anways... > Now let me lay out what's in my head: ... > - Create a "reply" list. I like the idea of a "reply" list. I might see if that would work better than just an address. > 5) The "reply" list will send the message on to all designated posters > unmodified. This will allow the designated posters to see the real email > address of the subscriber which they can reply to. See above about this. Actually, what I was thinking was that Postfix WOULD modify the messages. > 6) This is where my I'm stuck. How to have replies from the designated > poster be sanitized and sent back to the subscriber that is replying. I > wonder if a two way anonymizer would help here. I hope that my explanation above is much clearer this time. Sorry about the confusion. You are right. This is the point that causes the problems. That is why I was thinking of having ALL messages go through the Mailman/Postfix server by using "individual" mailing list addresses for EACH subscriber. If I can make ALL messages go through the server, then I can rewrite what I need to to make sure the subscribers don't know the "designated posters'" addresses. As a side benefit, not necessary at all, this way the "designated posters" also won't see the subscribers' direct e-mail addresses. What do people think? To me this seems like it will work, but I can't be sure until I try it out. > I will do some more thinking about ways to allow the original posters to > reply to replies that come in to the "reply" list from subscribers while > hiding the original posters address. Thank you very much for taking the time to think and help me out about this. Even just having someone to bounce the ideas off of is a big help for me getting this all worked out. I appreciate it. Charles From warlord at MIT.EDU Fri May 1 17:46:23 2009 From: warlord at MIT.EDU (Derek Atkins) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 11:46:23 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue with bounce processing after upgrade to Fedora 10 Message-ID: Hi I recently migrated some mailing lists from a Fedora 7 system to a new system running Fedora 10. Ever since the migration I've received a ton of bounce messages into my personal email due to bounced mailing-list reminder messages. The bounce messages look pretty normal to me (an example is available at ) so I don't understand why it's winding up in my personal inbox. The sendmail log looks okay, up until it sends the message to me. Notice that the message does get into the 'mailman bounces mailman' input queue, but I don't see anything at that time in the mailman bounces log file. Is this a misconfigured mailman? Misconfigured sendmail? A bug? I searched the FAQ but didn't see anything like this. Thanks for any help, -derek [root at code ~]# grep n419JLKo020547 /var/log/maillog May 1 05:19:21 code sendmail[20547]: n419JLKo020547: from=, size=1598, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1] May 1 05:19:21 code sendmail[20547]: n419JLKo020547: Milter add: header: X-Scanned-By: milter-sender/0.55.730 (code.gnucash.org [204.107.200.65]); Fri, 01 May 2009 05:19:21 -0400 May 1 05:19:23 code sendmail[20552]: n419JLKo020547: to=, delay=00:00:02, xdelay=00:00:02, mailer=esmtp, pri=121598, relay=mailin-01.mx.aol.com. [205.188.156.248], dsn=5.1.1, stat=User unknown May 1 05:19:24 code sendmail[20552]: n419JLKo020547: n419JOKo020552: DSN: User unknown [root at code ~]# grep n419JOKo020552 /var/log/maillog May 1 05:19:24 code sendmail[20552]: n419JLKo020547: n419JOKo020552: DSN: User unknown May 1 05:19:24 code sendmail[20552]: n419JOKo020552: to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman", ctladdr= (8/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=32920, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent May 1 05:22:28 code sendmail[23558]: n419MSMH023558: from=, size=3655, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200905010919.n419JOKo020552 at code.gnucash.org>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1] [root at code ~]# grep n419MSMH023558 /var/log/maillog May 1 05:22:28 code sendmail[23558]: n419MSMH023558: from=, size=3655, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200905010919.n419JOKo020552 at code.gnucash.org>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1] May 1 05:22:28 code sendmail[23558]: n419MSMH023558: Milter add: header: X-Scanned-By: milter-sender/0.55.730 (code.gnucash.org [204.107.200.65]); Fri, 01 May 2009 05:22:28 -0400 May 1 05:22:29 code sendmail[23563]: n419MSMH023558: to=, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=esmtp, pri=123655, relay=w92-130-barracuda-1.mit.edu. [18.7.21.220], dsn=4.0.0, stat=Deferred: 421 too many connections May 1 07:35:32 code sendmail[28794]: n419MSMH023558: to=, delay=02:13:04, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, pri=213655, relay=m24-004-barracuda-3.mit.edu. [18.7.7.114], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as 366DA1A100B8) -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available From jrc at clshost.com Fri May 1 18:18:08 2009 From: jrc at clshost.com (J.R. Constance) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:18:08 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] No Admin Notification Message-ID: I am having a problem with one of my lists where the administrators are not being notified of posts awaiting approval. This list is set right now to "Emergency moderation" so all posts are being held, but neither I nor the other administrator are receiving notifications of held messages. Any ideas on what the problem might be? I actually think it's a problem with a corrupt config.pck but not sure how I might go about even testing that. Thanks, J.R. J.R. Constance Rodric Consulting, LLC jrc at rodricon.com http://www.clinical-laboratory-consulting.com Phone: 720.339.3646 From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Fri May 1 18:47:37 2009 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 17:47:37 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] No Admin Notification In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090501164737.GS2270@amyl.org.uk> On Fri, May 01, 2009 at 10:18:08AM -0600, J.R. Constance wrote: > I am having a problem with one of my lists where the administrators > are not being notified of posts awaiting approval. This list is set > right now to "Emergency moderation" so all posts are being held, but > neither I nor the other administrator are receiving notifications of > held messages. > > Any ideas on what the problem might be? What do your logs say (Mailman, and MTA)? Are the addresses in -owner set properly (and deliverable?) -- ``If the media object to a judgment or sentencing decision, we suggest they focus their efforts on persuading the Government to rectify the legal and policy framework.'' (Lords' Select Committee on Constitution: Eleventh Report) From cgregory at hwcn.org Fri May 1 18:44:24 2009 From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 12:44:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] No Admin Notification In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 1 May 2009, J.R. Constance wrote: > I am having a problem with one of my lists where the administrators are not > being notified of posts awaiting approval. This list is set right now to > "Emergency moderation" so all posts are being held, but neither I nor the > other administrator are receiving notifications of held messages. > Any ideas on what the problem might be? I actually think it's a problem with > a corrupt config.pck but not sure how I might go about even testing that. On my CentOS 4 machine I found a strange 'quirk' that stopped mail to list owners. I had to hard-code the alias in /etc/aliases for list-owner to point to the real owner e-mail, rather than let mailman handle the redirection. Give that a try. - Charles From jrc at clshost.com Fri May 1 18:53:00 2009 From: jrc at clshost.com (J.R. Constance) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:53:00 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] No Admin Notification In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <726B389B-38DC-4D2D-A8E9-8F34ECD42692@clshost.com> I should mention that I have about thirty lists all running off this same mailman installation/domain and none of the other lists are having this problem, so it is something unique to this list. I also need to mention that this is a cPanel Mailman installation, but since all of the other lists are working I am assuming that it has nothing to do with cPanel. J.R. On May 1, 2009, at 10:44 AM, Charles Gregory wrote: > On Fri, 1 May 2009, J.R. Constance wrote: >> I am having a problem with one of my lists where the administrators >> are not being notified of posts awaiting approval. This list is set >> right now to "Emergency moderation" so all posts are being held, >> but neither I nor the other administrator are receiving >> notifications of held messages. >> Any ideas on what the problem might be? I actually think it's a >> problem with a corrupt config.pck but not sure how I might go about >> even testing that. > > On my CentOS 4 machine I found a strange 'quirk' that stopped mail > to list owners. I had to hard-code the alias in /etc/aliases for > list-owner to point to the real owner e-mail, rather than let > mailman handle the redirection. Give that a try. > > - Charles > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list > Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jrc%40clshost.com > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 From drew.tenenholz at isid.org Fri May 1 20:43:56 2009 From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 14:43:56 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Line Wrapping - on/off by list. Message-ID: Folks -- I have a request to change the line-wrapping for Mailman on some lists but not others. Is it possible? I have looked at the FAQ and list help and found articles and which make it clear that the line-wrapping can be changed via the parameter 'raw' when calling the functions findtext() and maketext() in /mailman/Mailman/Utils.py. It seems to me that setting raw='true' works on ALL lists served, not a specific list. It also seems that it is easily possible to change line-wrapping on a language-by-language basis. Is there a way to make this work on a list-by-list basis? I'm not a python expert, but since python is quasi-human-readable, it seems to me that I should be able to specify which list(s) I want to wrap and which ones not. Any ideas on how to go about doing that? -- Drew Tenenholz From stephen at xemacs.org Sat May 2 06:31:02 2009 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 13:31:02 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue with bounce processing after upgrade to Fedora 10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87presi0s9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Derek Atkins writes: > The sendmail log looks okay, up until it sends the message to me. > Notice that the message does get into the 'mailman bounces mailman' > input queue, but I don't see anything at that time in the mailman > bounces log file. I would guess that "warlord" (or "mailman-owner") is the target of the mailman-loop address. So there's a loop somewhere, probably in the "mailman-bounces" address. If you've set your list owners to the mailman list or something like that, this might happen, I dunno. In our Mailman installation, the mailman-loop address is directed to a file rather than a person. Maybe Mailman changed policy in this regard at some point, and the new generated config directs to the owner rather than a file? Or perhaps Fedora, if you're using the Fedora configured Mailman. From john at virginiamountains.com Fri May 1 20:56:01 2009 From: john at virginiamountains.com (John Webb) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 14:56:01 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Robots Tag Message-ID: <1241204165_108889@mail1.swva.net> I am still confused about the source of the Meta Tag META NAME=robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow" . Our archive indexes have the "noindex,follow" tag, but the pages for each message have "index, nofollow". We want our archives to be available for unrestricted spidering and indexing throughout all of the pages. What do we need to do to enable the correct tag in our html? What exactly does the follow or nofollow part of it do? On a different topic.... I see several threads and methods concerning the use of search engines for searching the archives. What would be the most simple way for us to add a way for users to search for keywords in our archives? Thanks. John Webb From mail at mikealrhughes.com Fri May 1 21:37:55 2009 From: mail at mikealrhughes.com (Mike Hughes) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 14:37:55 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Message-ID: I have a mailing list that has been running under Mailman. Another fellow has been hosting the mailing list for me. I would like to begin doing so myself. I have a computer available for the task. What Linux version will work best? What will I need to do to set up mailman? Mike Hughes - Minister ? Wilmington church of Christ -- P.O. Box 278 303 N. 1st Street Wilmington, IL 60481 Web: www.mikealrhughes.com E-mail: mail at mikealrhughes.com Mobile: (815) 545-6497 AIM/iChat ID: im2macmike Wilmington, IL Podcasts - The Bible Says Wilmington Sermons Owner Bible Matters List Mikeal R. Hughes's Facebook profile New Forum address: http://www.network54.com/Forum/602460 Join Bible Matters Group for forum at - http://www.network54.com/Group/158452 Blog: http://biblestruths.blogspot.com/ (OS X is like a jungle no Gates, no Windows, and a Leopard inside.) Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely. The contents of this email are personal and private. Please do not forward this communication, in whole or in part, to anyone without my express consent. From Marcos.Breguez at dhl.com Fri May 1 20:23:24 2009 From: Marcos.Breguez at dhl.com (Marcos Breguez (DHL US)) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 11:23:24 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to prevent users from making changes to (their) DLs Message-ID: <55A715C1BCD6DD43B8DA81B5B986FD10568A5F@PHXDCEX005.phx-dc.dhl.com> We want to take a snapshot of all lists and members in Mailman. So how can we prevent the current lists from being changed while being functional? Thanks. From soundwreck at gmail.com Fri May 1 00:28:07 2009 From: soundwreck at gmail.com (Renee) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:28:07 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] alternative to setgid Message-ID: <392c2d540904301528v6b3476aevd896e8b583c876b3@mail.gmail.com> I've set up a new mailman installation on a new Solaris 10 server. I am attempting to share out the mailman directory via NFS to another Solaris 10 server running apache for web maintenance purposes. Theoretically, this should work, but I'm getting the dreaded "setuid execution not allowed" error on my web server when I try to go to /mailman/listinfo or /mailman/admin. I have determined that mailman is being NFS mounted on the web server with the nosuid option and I can't for the life of me figure out how to make it mount with the suid option set.. So.. I'm wondering if there is a way around the whole setgid permission deal with mailman? I am not sure I really understand why it needs to be setgid and what would be the consequences of doing something alternative? And, if I were to remove the setgid bits, how would I set the permissions appropriately for both best security and accessibility? Also, if anyone has any thoughts about the NFS problem, I'd appreciate the input. I feel like I'm overlooking something simple as I have another NFS server that exports suid no problem, but I can't see the differences between the way the two servers are set up. Thanks, Renee From webbs at swva.net Fri May 1 23:17:14 2009 From: webbs at swva.net (John Webb) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 17:17:14 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Robot Tag Message-ID: <1241212639_65885@mail2.swva.net> I am still confused about the source of the Meta Tag META NAME=robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow" . Our archive indexes have the "noindex,follow" tag, but the pages for each message have "index, nofollow". We want our archives to be available for unrestricted spidering and indexing throughout all of the pages. What do we need to do to enable the correct tag in our html? What exactly does the follow or nofollow part of it do? On a different topic.... I see several threads and methods concerning the use of search engines for searching the archives. What would be the most simple way for us to add a way for users to search for keywords in our archives? Thanks. John Webb From brad at fineby.me.uk Sat May 2 09:29:56 2009 From: brad at fineby.me.uk (Brad Rogers) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 08:29:56 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Robots Tag In-Reply-To: <1241204165_108889@mail1.swva.net> References: <1241204165_108889@mail1.swva.net> Message-ID: <20090502082956.29d470b0@abydos.stargate.org.uk> On Fri, 01 May 2009 14:56:01 -0400 John Webb wrote: Hello John, > What exactly does the follow or nofollow part of it do? (no)follow tells spiders whether or not to follow links on your page. Of course, it applies *only* to your page, so the link can still be arrived at from external pages. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" If you ain't sticking your knives in me, you will be eventually Monsoon - Robbie Williams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hamaryns at googlemail.com Sat May 2 12:00:39 2009 From: hamaryns at googlemail.com (Hendrik Maryns) Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 12:00:39 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-ASCII signs in welcome text In-Reply-To: <49C539FE.2050309@msapiro.net> References: <49C35000.6060509@googlemail.com> <49C539FE.2050309@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <49FC19C7.2020501@googlemail.com> Op 21-03-09 20:03 heeft Mark Sapiro als volgt van zich laten horen: > Hendrik Maryns wrote: >> I just started a new mailing list with Mailman. The welcome_msg is in >> German and contains ???. Then I subscribed myself to the list and got >> the following: >> >> Hallöchen, Beiträge erwünscht, aber übertreibt es >> nicht, ne. > > > What is the list's preferred language? If it is English (or if it was > English when you set the welcome_msg), this is expected because > Mailman's character set for English is us-ascii and the page you're > posting from was sent with charset=us-ascii so your browser sends the > non-ascii characters as numeric html entities. > > If the list's preferred language is German, whose charset is iso-8859-1, > when you set the welcome_msg, this should not happen. Indeed. The problem is that Mailman assumes a list is English by default. If I create a new list, I start editing its settings. What you see first, is the welcome message etc. Only afterwards, I click through to the language settings and change it to German. This causes the problem. So a useful RFE would be to either not assume English, or to ask for the language at setup (or at first administrator login, since often a sysadmin will create the list and then hand it over to the list admin). Also, I noticed it is not possible to *remove* English as a list language. I do not see why. I certainly don?t need it in my lists. >> Furthermore, if I know log into the admin area, it gives the same text, >> that is, with all non-ASCII replaced by entities! > > > The reason you see the numeric HTML entities rather that the browser's > rendering of them is over-protective escaping of the '&' in the HTML > entity, but in this case, that's actually appropriate because the > ultimate use of this message is in a plain text email where the HTML > entities won't be rendered as characters anyway. Yes. Caution is good, but isn?t this exaggerated? H. -- Opgepast | Achtung | Attention adressen gewijzigd! Adressen ge?ndert! adresses changed! Hendrik Maryns Biesingerstra?e 5 D-72070 T?bingen +4970717783365 hamaryns at googlemail.com http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 257 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From stephen at xemacs.org Sun May 3 02:21:15 2009 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 09:21:15 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-ASCII signs in welcome text In-Reply-To: <49FC19C7.2020501@googlemail.com> References: <49C35000.6060509@googlemail.com> <49C539FE.2050309@msapiro.net> <49FC19C7.2020501@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <87hc03hw90.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Hendrik Maryns writes: > Yes. Caution is good, but isn?t this exaggerated? No. It's not just your systems that are at risk. Mine are, too. Remember, almost all of these measures are taken because someone has demonstrated a similar exploit, and most exploits are not done for their own sake, but rather to achieve a platform for cracking more systems. Of course, if you're a security expert and know what risks are present, and are sure they don't apply to your system, Mailman is open source, you can change it. If that sounds like too much work, don't you see that probably means you don't really have enough resources to change the settings and still be secure? On the other hand, systems and their environments are infinitely variable. The Mailman developers can not know enough about your system to make those decisions, either. From jeffrey at goldmark.org Sun May 3 04:44:42 2009 From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 21:44:42 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On May 1, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Mike Hughes wrote: > I have a mailing list that has been running under Mailman. Another > fellow has been hosting the mailing list for me. I would like to > begin doing so myself. I have a computer available for the task. > What Linux version will work best? Use whatever version of Linux (or other Unix) you are most comfortable administering. Because it will be an Internet facing server, you (or someone) will have to keep up with security updates. Note that you can run Mailman on OS X, which you appear to have some familiarity with. Any modern Unix-like system will do, but choose something that you will be able to maintain. > What will I need to do to set up mailman? You personally or someone else working with you will need to understand mail transport and what it means to be running a machine that receives and sends mail to the Internet. With apologies for sounding patronizing, but the fact that you asked the question above makes me doubt that you currently have that understanding. But that's okay as long as you are willing to learn. But there is much more to learn than just installing and configuring a couple of software packages. Getting your DNS records configured so that your mailserver doesn't look like a source of spam takes work and thought. This stuff is great fun to learn, but have someone close at hand who you can consult with and who can look over your shoulder and offer advice. If your question was what other packages does mailman depend on, that information is in the installation guide. But basically you will need Apache (other webservers will work, but all of the examples that you'll see for things use Apache), python, an MTA, (I use postfix; I like exim a whole lot, and sendmail remains very popular). cron (or on OS X, launchd.). You will probably want to have spam filtering as well, SpamAssassin is a popular choice. If you want to add virus checking of mail, then something like clamav is a good choice. Your server will need A static public IP address. Proper DNS PTR and A records (getting the proper PTR records can be a frustrating experience). DNS MX record Best wishes, -j -- Jeffrey Goldberg http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/ From turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp Sun May 3 08:06:20 2009 From: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 15:06:20 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87bpqaiuub.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Jeffrey Goldberg writes: > On May 1, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Mike Hughes wrote: > > > I have a mailing list that has been running under Mailman. Another > > fellow has been hosting the mailing list for me. I would like to > > begin doing so myself. I have a computer available for the task. > > What Linux version will work best? > > Use whatever version of Linux (or other Unix) you are most comfortable > administering. Because it will be an Internet facing server, you (or > someone) will have to keep up with security updates. Note that you > can run Mailman on OS X, which you appear to have some familiarity > with. Any modern Unix-like system will do, but choose something that > you will be able to maintain. Note that most "modern Unix-like systems" provide a Mailman package. However, they all make changes to its configuration. If you have a user group for your system of choice, and know that some of the members run Mailman from the package, you should consider using the system's package. It will "fit in" to the system better, in some sense. However, generic resources like the Mailman INSTALL document will not apply to your setup in that case, so you do become dependent on help from those specialized to the system you use. OTOH, if you expect that you will be getting most help from this list and random friends off the 'net, you probably should install Mailman from source. It's not hard, there's an excellent FAQ, and a couple dozen people giving pretty much 24x7 coverage on this list. The MTA should be installed from the system's package. I find both sendmail and exim to be arcane. Postfix is plenty powerful and relatively straightforward to configure. (All three are excellent products, of course.) All are available for your OS of choice. > Your server will need > > A static public IP address. > Proper DNS PTR and A records (getting the proper PTR records can be > a frustrating experience). > DNS MX record What he said. Also, you may need to open some doors to the server through your firewall, ports 80 (for the web interfaces) and 25 (SMTP, for mail). From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Sun May 3 15:19:20 2009 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 14:19:20 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman In-Reply-To: <87bpqaiuub.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87bpqaiuub.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20090503131919.GU2270@amyl.org.uk> On Sun, May 03, 2009 at 03:06:20PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > The MTA should be installed from the system's package. I find both > sendmail and exim to be arcane. If you're planning on using Debian and Exim, note that the packagers of Pkg-exim4 really have done some rather "strange" things to it (or as I usually put it "really fucked up a perfectly fine MTA, compared with the BSD packagers"), so do read the readmes, although, if you've got the inclination, I'd suggest steering clear of pkg-exim4, and compiling your own. Rolling out your own exim4.conf/config file may help alieviate some of (what I'd call) the muppetry, but still there are other "brokennesses", which can often be fixed by adding things to the "Debian-exim" group, and set-gid'ing. (we all have our prejudices, and preferences: I just really hate what the Debian packagers have done). -- ``... it was not appropriate for the jury to make a statistical evaluation of separate items of evidence by applying mathematical formulae such as the Bayes Theorem, as such an exercise would encroach upon the jury's task of weighing up all the evidence together.'' (R v. Adams) From vancleef at lostwells.net Sun May 3 19:27:25 2009 From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 11:27:25 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200905031727.n43HRPUv026588@julie.lostwells.net> The esteemed Mike Hughes has said: > > I have a mailing list that has been running under Mailman. Another > fellow has been hosting the mailing list for me. I would like to begin > doing so myself. I have a computer available for the task. What Linux > version will work best? What will I need to do to set up mailman? > > > Mike Hughes - Minister ??? > Wilmington church of Christ > I think you need answers to two questions here, and the first is more significant than the second. 1. Are you prepared to set up what is essentially an in-house ISP connected directly to the Internet backbone? 2. Can you do Unix/Linux system administration from the command line? As to which Linux system is best, I'd say that there are several that are, in the end, about equal. As I recall, several of them offer an already-compiled mailman package which you can install. You will also need a Python, a Mail Transfer Agent (Postfix, Qmail, sendmail), an Apache WEB server, and should have at least a local caching DNS server (bind) in addition to Mailman. Services you will need from an upstream internet backbone provider are: 1. At least one fixed IP with an unfiltered feed both ways for at least ports 25 (SMTP mail) and 80 (Web). 2. Registered domain name with DNS A, MX, and PTR records for your IP. Your upstream feed will have to set up the PTR record. You'll need to set up local security. A bare as-installed Linux/Unix system on the Internet backbone is like parking a new Mercedes in Chicago, unlocked, with the keys in it. Easiest solution is to use a hardware firewall between your Linux box and the backbone feed. A major factor in your setup will be dealing with spam mail, which is primarily done in firewall and MTA configuration. You'll also need to consider hardware availability and reliability, and failure recovery. That means having backup resources. Now, to give you a ferinstance, I run an independent Mailman server as a post-retirement "hobby" site from a bedroom in my house. The primary server is a Sun SPARC running Solaris, connected to the backbone through a Fortigate 60 firewall. MTA is sendmail, Web server is Apache and I have a caching DNS on the same box, using program resourced that come in the Solaris distribution. My Python and Mailman installation are local builds from (locally modified) source. Traffic is about 150 e-mails/day to 1500 users. I've been online with this setup for about three years. For backup, I take daily incremental backups onto tape, and have a second Sun box with the same setup which gets refreshed weekly, so that it can be brought online in minutes if the primary server fails. My upstream feed provider is a small local outfit. It's a plus for them to have a pro-adminstered Solaris site on their net, so getting IP's, PTR records, and an unfiltered feed was pretty straightforward and quick. Your Mileage May Vary on that one. I did have to pass what was essentially an employment interview on my administration skills. I figure on spending about an hour a day reading logs, looking for trouble, doing list administration, etc. That's ongoing overhead; any time spent upgrading hardware or software, diagnosing and solving problems, etc. is additional. Hank From b19141 at anl.gov Sun May 3 22:29:16 2009 From: b19141 at anl.gov (b19141 at anl.gov) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 15:29:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Message-ID: <20090503202916.82C112ADC3@atalanta.it.anl.gov> There has been some discussion (that I will not quote) about various linux Mailman packages. I built a 2.1.12 package for Ubuntu based on the SourceForge source and the Debian/Ubuntu 2.1.9 package. At that time there were too many Debian patches that were undocumented. Last week I decided to look at the Ubuntu 2.1.12 package for the "jaunty" release, and I found fewer patches. The patch log file mentioned that all of the patches had been reviewed by Mark Sapiro, so I assume that the remaining patches are needed to fix bugs. I assume that Mark has these remaining patches and will include them in the next release of Mailman. I have not yet finished reviewing the patches, but the ones I have reviewed look to me like fixes for bugs. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From edward.harvey at lyricsemiconductor.com Mon May 4 19:40:24 2009 From: edward.harvey at lyricsemiconductor.com (Edward Ned Harvey) Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 13:40:24 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests more than once a day ... What determines it? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Nevermind. I don?t know how I didn?t see this before ... I literally started systematically Ctrl-F?ing every page of my mailman admin page, and even got so far as looking at the non-digest options, before I saw the digest options page. (smacks self in forehead) Thanks anyway, ttyl. On 5/4/09 1:36 PM, "Edward Harvey" wrote: > I?m aware ?If you turn digest mode on, you'll get posts bundled together > (usually one per day but possibly more on busy lists)? > > But one of my users (the CEO) just asked me ? and forwarded messages - he got > a separate digest for each email that went to a list, at 11:33am, 11:38am, and > 11:45am today. This seems excessive, so I?d like to know ... > > Under what circumstances will a digest be created more than daily? Is it > configurable? From edward.harvey at lyricsemiconductor.com Mon May 4 19:36:56 2009 From: edward.harvey at lyricsemiconductor.com (Edward Ned Harvey) Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 13:36:56 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests more than once a day ... What determines it? Message-ID: I?m aware ?If you turn digest mode on, you'll get posts bundled together (usually one per day but possibly more on busy lists)? But one of my users (the CEO) just asked me ? and forwarded messages - he got a separate digest for each email that went to a list, at 11:33am, 11:38am, and 11:45am today. This seems excessive, so I?d like to know ... Under what circumstances will a digest be created more than daily? Is it configurable? From mark at msapiro.net Mon May 4 20:22:52 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 11:22:52 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Robot Tag In-Reply-To: <1241212639_65885@mail2.swva.net> Message-ID: John Webb wrote: >I am still confused about the source of the Meta Tag META >NAME=robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow" . Our archive indexes have the >"noindex,follow" tag, but the pages for each message have "index, nofollow". >We want our archives to be available for unrestricted spidering and >indexing throughout all of the pages. What do we need to do to enable >the correct tag in our html? >What exactly does the follow or nofollow part of it do? The tags that are there are the appropriate ones. Brad Rogers has explained (no)follow, but the idea is that when searching for keywords, you don't want to hit words in subjects on the index pages; you want to hit the posts themselves, so the index pages have noindex,follow to not index that page but to follow the links to the actual posts. The posts themselves have index,nofollow so that they are indexed, but links within them to other posts or to external sites are not followed. If you feel these are not appropriate, you can always change or remove them by editing the archidxhead.html, archtoc.html, archtocnombox.html and article.html templates . >On a different topic.... I see several threads and methods concerning >the use of search engines for searching the archives. What would be >the most simple way for us to add a way for users to search for >keywords in our archives? The following form will submit a Google search for the entered words restricted to the public archive for LISTNAME at the site lists.example.com
This could be added to the appropriate templates, e.g. archidxhead.html, archtoc.html and archtocnombox.html. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon May 4 20:30:12 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 11:30:12 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] email interface question -- list of mailing listsyou own In-Reply-To: <002701c9c9d2$c7fd2120$57f76360$@edu> Message-ID: Tom Gerhardt wrote: >Is there an email command to get the names of mailing lists you own? No. >Is there an email command to get the names and owner names of mailing lists >on our system? No, but there are command line tools bin/list_lists, bin/list_admins and bin/list_owners. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon May 4 20:53:56 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 11:53:56 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to prevent users from making changes to (their)DLs In-Reply-To: <55A715C1BCD6DD43B8DA81B5B986FD10568A5F@PHXDCEX005.phx-dc.dhl.com> Message-ID: Marcos Breguez wrote: >We want to take a snapshot of all lists and members in Mailman. >So how can we prevent the current lists from being changed while being >functional? You can't. If Mailman (mailmanctl) and/or the web server are running, lists can be changed. If you want a guaranteed stable snapshot, you have to stop your web server or at least reload it with a config that doesn't include the Mailman CGI aliases (ScriptAlias in apache) and stop Mailman while you take the snapshot. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From beauj at cisco.com Mon May 4 21:56:13 2009 From: beauj at cisco.com (Beau James) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 12:56:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email commands to "-requests" Message-ID: <200905041956.n44JuDHF014178@cisco.com> Mailman version 2.1.11 on a hosted service ... As far as I can tell by experimentation, the email admin commands (such as "who" to get a membership list) work only when they are in the subject line of the request. The command is not recognized in the body of the message, even if it is the only content in the body of the message and even if there is no subject line in the message. Is this the intended behavior? I'm setting up a cron job to "backup" my mailing list membership rosters, because I do not have access to the Mailman commandline tools on the hosting server. I'd prefer not to put the owner/moderator password in the "Subject:" line, if possible. Granted, putting the password in the message body is not terribly secure. But subject lines get logged by transit MTAs, at least some of the time; message bodies rarely get logged. (As an aside: the "emailed command in message body" works with MajorDomo.) Thanks, Beau From mark at msapiro.net Mon May 4 22:11:41 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 13:11:41 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email commands to "-requests" In-Reply-To: <200905041956.n44JuDHF014178@cisco.com> Message-ID: Beau James wrote: >Mailman version 2.1.11 on a hosted service ... > >As far as I can tell by experimentation, the email admin commands >(such as "who" to get a membership list) work only when they are in >the subject line of the request. The command is not recognized >in the body of the message, even if it is the only content in the >body of the message and even if there is no subject line in the message. > >Is this the intended behavior? No. Commands should be recognized in the message body provided that they are in a text/plain message part and they are not preceded by a non-blank, non-command. If you are not seeing the commands at all in the processed or ignored sections of the report, you are probably sending them in an HTML only message or your hosting provider has disabled commands in the body somehow. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon May 4 22:24:16 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 13:24:16 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] No Admin Notification In-Reply-To: Message-ID: J.R. Constance wrote: >I am having a problem with one of my lists where the administrators >are not being notified of posts awaiting approval. This list is set >right now to "Emergency moderation" so all posts are being held, but >neither I nor the other administrator are receiving notifications of >held messages. List admins are intentionally not notified of holds for emergency moderation. The doc string from the Emergency.py handler - """Put an emergency hold on all messages otherwise approved. No notices are sent to either the sender or the list owner for emergency holds. I think they'd be too obnoxious. """ -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon May 4 22:37:25 2009 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 13:37:25 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Line Wrapping - on/off by list. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Drew Tenenholz wrote: > >I have a request to change the line-wrapping for Mailman on some >lists but not others. Is it possible? > >I have looked at the FAQ and list help and found articles > >and > >which make it clear that the line-wrapping can be changed via the >parameter 'raw' when calling the functions findtext() and maketext() >in /mailman/Mailman/Utils.py. > >It seems to me that setting raw='true' works on ALL lists served, not >a specific list. It also seems that it is easily possible to change >line-wrapping on a language-by-language basis. Is there a way to >make this work on a list-by-list basis? I'm not a python expert, but >since python is quasi-human-readable, it seems to me that I should be >able to specify which list(s) I want to wrap and which ones not. > >Any ideas on how to go about doing that? Please be more specific about what it is you're asking. The functions findtext() and maketext() in /mailman/Mailman/Utils.py only have to do with retrieving and formatting actual template text. They have nothing to do with the wrapping of message text in posts, digests or archives. The FAQ comments you reference above have to do with adding style information for the 
 tag in archive articles by editing the
archive.html template. If this is what you're after, then yes, you can
make list specific templates, e.g. lists/LISTNAME/en/article.html.

Note that if you do change the article.html template to add style info
for a list or lists, you need to then rebuild the archive with
bin/arch --wipe for it to be effective for existing posts in the
archive.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May  4 23:13:21 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 14:13:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue with bounce processing after upgrade
	toFedora 10
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Derek Atkins wrote:
>
>I recently migrated some mailing lists from a Fedora 7 system to a new
>system running Fedora 10.  Ever since the migration I've received a ton
>of bounce messages into my personal email due to bounced mailing-list
>reminder messages.  The bounce messages look pretty normal to me (an
>example is available at ) so I
>don't understand why it's winding up in my personal inbox.


See the post at

for why this is happening and what to do about it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rnickel at scea.com  Mon May  4 23:22:21 2009
From: rnickel at scea.com (Robert Nickel)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 14:22:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email interface question -- list of
	mailing	listsyou own
In-Reply-To: 
References: <002701c9c9d2$c7fd2120$57f76360$@edu>
	
Message-ID: <20090504212221.GX18367@coinelement.989studios.com>

On 2009.05.04 11:30:12 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
[...]
> >Is there an email command to get the names and owner names of mailing lists
> >on our system?
> 
> 
> No, but there are command line tools bin/list_lists, bin/list_admins
> and bin/list_owners.

A little more help:

  for list in $(/path/to/mailman/bin/list_lists -b -a); do 
    echo -n "${i}: "
    echo $(/path/to/mailman/bin/list_owners ${i});
  done

Which will give you output like:

  list: 
  list2: 
  ...

Hope that helps.

--Robert

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May  5 00:44:55 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 15:44:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] alternative to setgid
In-Reply-To: <392c2d540904301528v6b3476aevd896e8b583c876b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Renee wrote:

>I've set up a new mailman installation on a new Solaris 10 server.  I am
>attempting to share out the mailman directory via NFS to another Solaris 10
>server running apache for web maintenance purposes.  Theoretically, this
>should work, but I'm getting the dreaded "setuid execution not allowed"
>error on my web server when I try to go to /mailman/listinfo or
>/mailman/admin.  I have determined that mailman is being NFS mounted on the
>web server with the nosuid option and I can't for the life of me figure out
>how to make it mount with the suid option set..


I don't know the answer to that, but my guess is that it will be easier
to find this answer than to work around it.


>So.. I'm wondering if there is a way around the whole setgid permission deal
>with mailman?  I am not sure I really understand why it needs to be setgid
>and what would be the consequences of doing something alternative?


The CGI wrappers are SETGID because Mailman's security model is
entirely based on everything running with effective group 'mailman'
and that group having permissions.


>And, if
>I were to remove the setgid bits, how would I set the permissions
>appropriately for both best security and accessibility?


You might be able to 'mount' the NFS mailman tree on the web server
with the setuid= or setgid= option on the mount command to set the
user or group of the tree to be that of the web server. That way the
web server would be able to read and write the Mailman tree, but there
probably would be issues preventing this from working.

I.e., the first thing I forsee is when the web admin interface updates
a list, there is actually a creation of a config.pck.tmp.host.pid
followed by renames of config.pck to config.pck.last and
config.pck.tmp.host.pid to config.pck. Thus, the new config.pck might
wind up with user:group of the web server rendering it unusable by the
queue runners on the "mail" machine.

Even if it worked, you would open the possibility of the web server
having access to Mailman files without going through Mailman CGIs,
thus opening security holes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue May  5 07:16:49 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 00:16:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] alternative to setgid
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <49FFCBC1.5000406@shub-internet.org>

on 5/4/09 5:44 PM, Mark Sapiro said:

>>                  I have determined that mailman is being NFS mounted on the
>> web server with the nosuid option and I can't for the life of me figure out
>> how to make it mount with the suid option set..
> 
> I don't know the answer to that, but my guess is that it will be easier
> to find this answer than to work around it.

That should be pretty simple.  Just remove the "nosuid" option from the 
list of mount options.

If there is no "nosuid" option in your list of mount options, then the 
filesystem is being exported as "nosuid" by the fileserver, and you'll 
have to talk to the administrator of the fileserver to see if they will 
change that for you.

-- 
Brad Knowles
        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From malcolm.austen at weald.org.uk  Mon May  4 20:20:38 2009
From: malcolm.austen at weald.org.uk (Malcolm Austen)
Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 19:20:38 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests more than once a day ... What
 determines it?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 04 May 2009 18:36:56 +0100, Edward Ned Harvey  
 wrote:

> Under what circumstances will a digest be created more than daily?

If an individual message is large enough to trigger a digest.

> Is it configurable?

Yes, in the 'Digest Options' of the list-admin interface.

reegards, Malcolm.

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

From tom at tilmant.com  Mon May  4 03:34:18 2009
From: tom at tilmant.com (Tom Tilmant)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 18:34:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman appends hostname to some address on mail
	list
Message-ID: <000001c9cc58$736afeb0$5a40fc10$@com>

I have been using mailman for several years with my current VPS provider.
About a month ago I started getting complaints from users that they were not
receiving e-mails. I have a spam problem with the server about the same time
and contribute most of the undeliverable because of that. But the complaints
became more frequent and I was able to give my service provider to provide
me with the log files and I started to notice that when I sent an e-mail out
to a mailing list say "parents at DOMIAN.com", that some of the log entries in
the mail log would show the following:

 

2009-05-03 13:27:54 [20088] 1M0iHw-0005Dq-2U => person1 at pacbell.net
F= P= R=lookuphost
T=remote_smtp S=4894 H=pbimail2.prodigy.net [207.115.21.23]:25 C="250 2.0.0
n43KRqOE012511 Message accepted for delivery" QT=2s DT=2s

 

Which would deliver just fine while others would say:

 

2009-05-03 16:12:52 [20088] H=localhost (myhost.DOMAIN.com)
[127.0.0.1]:45816 I=[127.0.0.1]:25 F=
temporarily rejected RCPT : Could not complete sender
verify

 

Which of course were not deliverable but we're all part of the same mailing
list. Has anybody seen this and what is the fix? My current environment is
that I'm using a hosted VPS with Cpanel and don't have root access. My
service provider claims not to support mailman any longer all through its
still part of the Cpanel install.  My version of Cpanel is 11.24.4-RELEASE
and it appears that my mailman version is version 2.1.11.cp3.  I'm trying to
get a grasp on the exact issue so that I can provide my service provider
with a way of fixing it and not request root access which then I lose all
support from them. 

 

I appreciate any help in advance.


From webbs at swva.net  Sat May  2 22:53:26 2009
From: webbs at swva.net (John Webb)
Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 16:53:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Robots Tag
In-Reply-To: <20090502082956.29d470b0@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
References: <1241204165_108889@mail1.swva.net>
	<20090502082956.29d470b0@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
Message-ID: <1241297613_67039@mail2.swva.net>

Thanks Brad. Any idea what I need to do to get index/follow into my 
archives html?

John

At 03:29 AM 5/2/2009, you wrote:
>Hello John,
>
> > What exactly does the follow or nofollow part of it do?
>
>(no)follow tells spiders whether or not to follow links on your page.  Of
>course, it applies *only* to your page, so the link can still be arrived
>at from external pages.




From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue May  5 08:29:51 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 01:29:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman appends hostname to some address on
 mail list
In-Reply-To: <000001c9cc58$736afeb0$5a40fc10$@com>
References: <000001c9cc58$736afeb0$5a40fc10$@com>
Message-ID: <49FFDCDF.5050609@shub-internet.org>

on 5/3/09 8:34 PM, Tom Tilmant said:

> 2009-05-03 13:27:54 [20088] 1M0iHw-0005Dq-2U => person1 at pacbell.net
> F= P= R=lookuphost
> T=remote_smtp S=4894 H=pbimail2.prodigy.net [207.115.21.23]:25 C="250 2.0.0
> n43KRqOE012511 Message accepted for delivery" QT=2s DT=2s

That looks like qmail.  I'm not sure there are many people on this list 
who know anything about qmail.

> 2009-05-03 16:12:52 [20088] H=localhost (myhost.DOMAIN.com)
> [127.0.0.1]:45816 I=[127.0.0.1]:25 F=
> temporarily rejected RCPT : Could not complete sender
> verify

Looks like they tried to do Sender Address Verification, which is a 
really bad idea (see ).

Regardless, they are configured to do SAV, and your system didn't verify 
that address as valid (which is not uncommon for qmail, IIRC), so your 
message failed to be accepted.  There's not much you can do about this, 
unless you can get the recipient system to stop doing SAV, or you can 
fix your qmail installation to actually validate those addresses.

Like I said, I don't know that there's anyone here who understands much 
about qmail.

>                                                                      My
> service provider claims not to support mailman any longer all through its
> still part of the Cpanel install.

IMO, if you're using cPanel, and your service provider is no longer 
providing support for the system you're using, then you've got the wrong 
service provider.

There are some service providers that are active on this mailing list, 
and I'm sure one or more of them would be more than happy to talk to you 
about your requirements and whether or not they could help you move your 
services to a different system where you can actually get the support 
you should be getting.

-- 
Brad Knowles
        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From brad at fineby.me.uk  Tue May  5 13:49:48 2009
From: brad at fineby.me.uk (Brad Rogers)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 12:49:48 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Robots Tag
In-Reply-To: <1241297613_67039@mail2.swva.net>
References: <1241204165_108889@mail1.swva.net>
	<20090502082956.29d470b0@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
	<1241297613_67039@mail2.swva.net>
Message-ID: <20090505124948.27463980@abydos.stargate.org.uk>

On Sat, 02 May 2009 16:53:26 -0400
John Webb  wrote:

Hello John,

> Thanks Brad. Any idea what I need to do to get index/follow into my 

You're welcome.

> archives html?

Mark has answered that.  Which is great, 'coz I had no idea where to
look!   :-)

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"

I'd hate to look into those eyes and see an ounce of pain
Sweet Child O'Mine - Guns 'N' Roses
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From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May  5 17:19:42 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 08:19:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman appends hostname to some address on
	maillist
In-Reply-To: <000001c9cc58$736afeb0$5a40fc10$@com>
Message-ID: 

Tom Tilmant wrote:

>I have been using mailman for several years with my current VPS provider.
>About a month ago I started getting complaints from users that they were not
>receiving e-mails. I have a spam problem with the server about the same time
>and contribute most of the undeliverable because of that. But the complaints
>became more frequent and I was able to give my service provider to provide
>me with the log files and I started to notice that when I sent an e-mail out
>to a mailing list say "parents at DOMIAN.com", that some of the log entries in
>the mail log would show the following:
>
> 
>
>2009-05-03 13:27:54 [20088] 1M0iHw-0005Dq-2U => person1 at pacbell.net
>F= P= R=lookuphost
>T=remote_smtp S=4894 H=pbimail2.prodigy.net [207.115.21.23]:25 C="250 2.0.0
>n43KRqOE012511 Message accepted for delivery" QT=2s DT=2s


This looks like a normal message delivery from the 'parents' list to
person1 at pacbell.net


>Which would deliver just fine while others would say:
>
> 
>
>2009-05-03 16:12:52 [20088] H=localhost (myhost.DOMAIN.com)
>[127.0.0.1]:45816 I=[127.0.0.1]:25 F=
>temporarily rejected RCPT : Could not complete sender
>verify


This message is from the site list, not the 'parents' list. Such
messages are normally notices to list owners/moderators. If
person2 at sbcglobal.net is not an owner/moderator of some list and is
only a member of the 'parents' list, then I don't offhand know what's
happening.


>Which of course were not deliverable but we're all part of the same mailing
>list. Has anybody seen this and what is the fix? My current environment is
>that I'm using a hosted VPS with Cpanel and don't have root access.


Do you have access to Mailman's logs? If so, what's in the smtp and
smtp-failure logs? See the FAQ at  for a
discussion of why our ability to help is limited in this situation,
and for info on the location of files in a cPanel installation.

If you think the problem is the 'myhost' in
mailman-bounces at myhost.DOMAIN.com as opposed to the absence of
'myhost' in parents-bounces at DOMIAN.com, you may be able to fix that if
you have command line access to Mailman. You would need to run
'fix_url' on the 'mailman' list. In a normal, non-cPanel installation,
I think all that would be required is

cd path/to/mailman
bin/withlist -l -r fix_url mailman

Even simpler, if you can access the web admin interface for the
'mailman' list, you will probably find that host_name near the bottom
of the General Options page is set to myhost.DOMAIN.com and you can
simply change that to DOMAIN.com.


> My
>service provider claims not to support mailman any longer all through its
>still part of the Cpanel install.  My version of Cpanel is 11.24.4-RELEASE
>and it appears that my mailman version is version 2.1.11.cp3.  I'm trying to
>get a grasp on the exact issue so that I can provide my service provider
>with a way of fixing it and not request root access which then I lose all
>support from them. 


You can give them the above information, but as Brad already said, they
already aren't supporting you, at least as far as Mailman is concerned.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May  5 19:05:11 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 10:05:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Robots Tag
In-Reply-To: <1241297613_67039@mail2.swva.net>
Message-ID: 

John Webb wrote:

>Thanks Brad. Any idea what I need to do to get index/follow into my 
>archives html?


See the FAQ at .

More specifically, assuming you're only concerned about English
language, find Mailman's templates/ directory.

Create templates/site/ and templates/site/en/ (these should be mode
drwxrwsr-x and group mailman).

Copy templates/en/article.html to templates/site/en/article.html.

Edit the META tag in templates/site/en/article.html.

If you have non-English language lists, do the same for the other
languages.

Stop Mailman.

Backup archives.

Rebuild archives - e.g.

#! /bin/sh
cd /path/to/mailman
for list in `bin/list_lists --bare` ; do
  bin/arch --wipe $list
done

Start Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May  5 19:10:33 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 10:10:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests more than once a day ... Whatdetermines
	it?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Malcolm Austen wrote:

>On Mon, 04 May 2009 18:36:56 +0100, Edward Ned Harvey  
> wrote:
>
>> Under what circumstances will a digest be created more than daily?
>
>If an individual message is large enough to trigger a digest.


More precisely, if a message arrives which when added to all the prior,
not-yet-digested messages, results in a pending digest greater than
digest_size_threshhold.

Thus, a digest can be triggered by a single large message or by a
number of smaller messages.	

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May  5 20:02:07 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 11:02:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-ASCII signs in welcome text
In-Reply-To: <49FC19C7.2020501@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: 

Hendrik Maryns wrote:
>
>Indeed.  The problem is that Mailman assumes a list is English by
>default.  If I create a new list, I start editing its settings.  What
>you see first, is the welcome message etc.  Only afterwards, I click
>through to the language settings and change it to German.  This causes
>the problem.
>
>So a useful RFE would be to either not assume English, or to ask for the
>language at setup (or at first administrator login, since often a
>sysadmin will create the list and then hand it over to the list admin).


It's already there - see the documentation for DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE
in Defaults.py.

Set

DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'de'

in mm_cfg.py and lists will be created with German as their
preferred_language.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May  5 21:38:13 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 12:38:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman
In-Reply-To: <20090503202916.82C112ADC3@atalanta.it.anl.gov>
Message-ID: 

Barry S. Finkel wrote:

>There has been some discussion (that I will not quote) about various
>linux Mailman packages.  I built a 2.1.12 package for Ubuntu based on
>the SourceForge source and the Debian/Ubuntu 2.1.9 package.  At that
>time there were too many Debian patches that were undocumented.
>Last week I decided to look at the Ubuntu 2.1.12 package for the
>"jaunty" release, and I found fewer patches.  The patch log file
>mentioned that all of the patches had been reviewed by Mark Sapiro,
>so I assume that the remaining patches are needed to fix bugs.  I
>assume that Mark has these remaining patches and will include them in
>the next release of Mailman.  I have not yet finished reviewing the
>patches, but the ones I have reviewed look to me like fixes for bugs.


Yes, I did look at the 2.1.11 Debian patch set and send some comments
back to Debian.

I have just looked briefly at the 2.1.12 patch set at
. (Note
that these URLs are unstable - if this one doesn't work, go to
 and find the current link
in the mailman entry.)

A number of these patches address Debian specific packaging issues and
are not relevant in a generic install from source.

A very few address possible bugs that are obscure and which I didn't
have time to investigate thoroughly before the 2.1.12 release.

At least 1 patch is wrong.

is intended to fix the bug . The bug
report is valid, but the patch doesn't fix it. The patch moves the
wrong thing in the templates.

Some of these patches (including a corrected
64_correct_html_nesting.patch) have already been comitted on the 2.2
branch. Others may be put in 2.2 prior to release, but many of them
simply aren't relevant to the source distribution.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mailinglisten at wbock.de  Thu May  7 00:13:25 2009
From: mailinglisten at wbock.de (Wolfgang Bock)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 00:13:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + apache2
Message-ID: 



hello,

I am getting confused with configurating mailman + apache2 with
virtual-domains.

With the command "newlist mailman at domain.de" the list "mailman" will be
build and I am getting a mail to listmaster at domain.de confirming the new
established list.

Calling the mentoned link in this mail:
http://domain.de/mailman/admin/mailman the result is "The requested URL
/mailman/admin/mailman was not found on this server."

My second problem is: if I am creating another new list, the web-form opens
at www.otherdomain.de/mailman/create. But it should bei opended at
http://otherdomain.de/mailman/create, as defined in mm_cfg.py 

Filling the form results to "unknown virtual host: www.otherdomain.de

Attemting again step by step, everything seems to be ok. Calling
www.otherdomain.de leads to the correct apache-directory and calling
http://otherdomain.de leads to the default-website.

Something remains misconfigured but I don't know why and where.

Any ideas? Can anyone help?

Regards


Wolfgang 

****************************************
> wolfgang bock
> wolfgang.bock at wbock.de
*************************** ;-) ********



From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May  7 02:27:46 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 17:27:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + apache2
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Wolfgang Bock wrote:
>
>I am getting confused with configurating mailman + apache2 with
>virtual-domains.
>
>With the command "newlist mailman at domain.de" the list "mailman" will be
>build and I am getting a mail to listmaster at domain.de confirming the new
>established list.
>
>Calling the mentoned link in this mail:
>http://domain.de/mailman/admin/mailman the result is "The requested URL
>/mailman/admin/mailman was not found on this server."


Do you have a Mailman ScriptAlias in httpd.conf either where it will
apply to all virtual hosts or inside the VirtualHost block for this
host?


>My second problem is: if I am creating another new list, the web-form opens
>at www.otherdomain.de/mailman/create. But it should bei opended at
>http://otherdomain.de/mailman/create, as defined in mm_cfg.py 


Either you are going to the admin overview page on which you find this
link via http://www.otherdomain.de/mailman/admin or DEFAULT_URL_HOST
is www.otherdomain.de.


>Filling the form results to "unknown virtual host: www.otherdomain.de
>
>Attemting again step by step, everything seems to be ok. Calling
>www.otherdomain.de leads to the correct apache-directory and calling
>http://otherdomain.de leads to the default-website.


I don't understand what you are saying here?


>Something remains misconfigured but I don't know why and where.


See the FAQs at ,
 and .

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bob001 at gmail.com  Thu May  7 06:15:09 2009
From: bob001 at gmail.com (bob 001)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 21:15:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help for mailto: in footer.
Message-ID: <29be4f4d0905062115h49ad5387wa7087b1a56ed6309@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Experts,
I am just trying to use mailto: facility.

It seems from last two lines of Jim Tittsler's response here :-
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg32666.html that it
is possible.

Can someone please help? Following text in footer is not working and appears
broken when it reaches to yahoo and/or gmail.

mailto:%(list_name)s@
%(host_name)s?subject=unsubscribe&body=unsubscribe %(user_password)s

Kindly suggest, this is very important for us.

TIA
- Bob

From lie at acer.edu.au  Thu May  7 07:42:45 2009
From: lie at acer.edu.au (Lie, Jafaruddin)
Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 15:42:45 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + Postfix - Too Many Connections
Message-ID: 

This is not strictly a mailman issue, but I would assume some people here
would have encountered this issue.

We sent out mailing lists to schools here in Australia, and recently we've
been getting "Too Many Connections #421" errors from them. Mails destined to
gmail or hotmail are OK.

We're not trying to spam them (we have put links to unsubscribe, etc) but
since the same mail server hosts emails for almost all the school domains,
it's not liking us. I've set postfix variable of
default_destination_recipient_limit to 15, still not liking it.

Any suggestions on rate-limiting on Postfix / mailman??


------------------------------------------------
Please consider the environment before you print


From dunkel at calamus.net  Thu May  7 10:23:32 2009
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 10:23:32 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + apache2
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A029A84.2070101@calamus.net>

Hello Wolfgang.

> I am getting confused with configurating mailman + apache2 with
> virtual-domains.
[...]
> Any ideas? Can anyone help?

Get familiar with the entries for default and virtual hosts in your 
mm_cfg.py.

Here is an example of how it might work with your virtual domains:

----- snip -----
DEFAULT_URL_HOST    = 'yourdomain.tld'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST  = 'yourdomain.tld'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
HOME_PAGE           = 'index.php'

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST,DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
add_virtualhost('yourdomain.tld','yourdomain.tld')
add_virtualhost('anotherdomain.tld','anotherdomain.tld')
add_virtualhost('yetanother.tld','yetanother.tld')
----- snap -----

Afterwards, you might want to run fix_url, like described here:
http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030616

HTH, Ulf Dunkel

From kaerast at qvox.org  Thu May  7 10:38:56 2009
From: kaerast at qvox.org (Alice Kaerast)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 09:38:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + Postfix - Too Many Connections
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20090507093856.0ec8298a@thinkcentre.tiscali.co.uk>

On Thu, 07 May 2009 15:42:45 +1000
"Lie, Jafaruddin"  wrote:

> This is not strictly a mailman issue, but I would assume some people
> here would have encountered this issue.
> 
> We sent out mailing lists to schools here in Australia, and recently
> we've been getting "Too Many Connections #421" errors from them.
> Mails destined to gmail or hotmail are OK.
> 
> We're not trying to spam them (we have put links to unsubscribe, etc)
> but since the same mail server hosts emails for almost all the school
> domains, it's not liking us. I've set postfix variable of
> default_destination_recipient_limit to 15, still not liking it.
> 
> Any suggestions on rate-limiting on Postfix / mailman??

It's horrible trying to debug things like this, working out what their
limit is and then sticking to it.  Try asking them what limits they are
imposing (or search Google to see if anybody else has researched it)
and then set them.

It isn't Mailman you want to be looking at, it is Postfix.  I'm not a
Postfix expert but  has lots of
settings you could be looking at such as
default_destination_concurrency_limit,
default_destination_recipient_limit, default_recipient_limit.

See also

if you want to be limiting for just a handful of destinations.

-- 
Alice

From jaco at kroon.co.za  Thu May  7 11:15:29 2009
From: jaco at kroon.co.za (Jaco Kroon)
Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 11:15:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + Postfix - Too Many Connections
In-Reply-To: <20090507093856.0ec8298a@thinkcentre.tiscali.co.uk>
References: 
	<20090507093856.0ec8298a@thinkcentre.tiscali.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4A02A6B1.8000101@kroon.co.za>

Alice Kaerast wrote:
> On Thu, 07 May 2009 15:42:45 +1000
> "Lie, Jafaruddin"  wrote:
> 
>> This is not strictly a mailman issue, but I would assume some people
>> here would have encountered this issue.
>>
>> We sent out mailing lists to schools here in Australia, and recently
>> we've been getting "Too Many Connections #421" errors from them.
>> Mails destined to gmail or hotmail are OK.
>>
>> We're not trying to spam them (we have put links to unsubscribe, etc)
>> but since the same mail server hosts emails for almost all the school
>> domains, it's not liking us. I've set postfix variable of
>> default_destination_recipient_limit to 15, still not liking it.
>>
>> Any suggestions on rate-limiting on Postfix / mailman??

Try working around this when your upstream gives 550 errors for rate 
limiting :p.

Anyway, the way to do concurrency limiting on exim (just so we have it 
in the archives) is to add serialize=* in your transport.  rate limiting 
isn't that easy and waiting for the 4xx error is probably the easiest, 
just set your retry rules to retry every 15 minutes continually.

Either way, Too Many Connections sounds like concurrency to me, not rate 
limiting.

Jaco

From hamaryns at googlemail.com  Thu May  7 12:24:56 2009
From: hamaryns at googlemail.com (Hendrik Maryns)
Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 12:24:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-ASCII signs in welcome text
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A02B6F8.20804@googlemail.com>

Op 05-05-09 20:02 heeft Mark Sapiro als volgt van zich laten horen:
> Hendrik Maryns wrote:
>> Indeed.  The problem is that Mailman assumes a list is English by
>> default.  If I create a new list, I start editing its settings.  What
>> you see first, is the welcome message etc.  Only afterwards, I click
>> through to the language settings and change it to German.  This causes
>> the problem.
>>
>> So a useful RFE would be to either not assume English, or to ask for the
>> language at setup (or at first administrator login, since often a
>> sysadmin will create the list and then hand it over to the list admin).
> 
> 
> It's already there - see the documentation for DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE
> in Defaults.py.
> 
> Set
> 
> DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'de'
> 
> in mm_cfg.py and lists will be created with German as their
> preferred_language.

I?ll mention this to the server administration, thanks!

H.
-- 
Opgepast | Achtung | Attention
adressen gewijzigd!
Adressen ge?ndert!
adresses changed!

Hendrik Maryns
Biesingerstra?e 5
D-72070 T?bingen
+4970717783365
hamaryns at googlemail.com
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/


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From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May  7 17:36:42 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 08:36:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help for mailto: in footer.
In-Reply-To: <29be4f4d0905062115h49ad5387wa7087b1a56ed6309@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

bob 001 wrote:
>
>Can someone please help? Following text in footer is not working and appears
>broken when it reaches to yahoo and/or gmail.
>
>mailto:%(list_name)s@
>%(host_name)s?subject=unsubscribe&body=unsubscribe %(user_password)s


First of all, it is a very bad idea to put the user's password in this
footer. User's are very careless about not removing footers and
signatures from replies and forwards of messages. With a footer as
above, you will have users posting their passwords back to the list.
Even if it is an announce only list, they will still forward their
passwords elsewhere.

Second, the address to which to send the unsubscribe command is
%(list_name)s-request@%(host_name)s, not %(list_name)s@%(host_name)s.

Third, the footer is always in a text/plain part so URIs are not
necessarily recognized as such or rendered as "clickable" by various
MUAs (mail clients). There's little you can do about that, but putting
the URI in <> brackets may help. E.g.
.

Also, simply mailing to the -leave or -unsubscribe address will also
work. E.g., .

Further, It is redundant to put and unsubscribe command in both the
subject and the body of a message to -request. Both will be processed,
and the first will result in a confirmation request email even if the
second succeeds. If you really insist on including the users password,
and you want it in the body and not the subject, I suggest
.
Note the %%20. The % is doubled so Mailman's interpolation will convert
it to a single %, and you need %20 instead of a space because space
will terminate the URI.

Finally, note that %(user_password)s only works if the list is
personalized.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May  7 17:45:05 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 08:45:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help for mailto: in footer.
In-Reply-To: <29be4f4d0905070815q76df1814o958fe53ea95fd262@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

bob 001 wrote:
>
>Tried this one too..
>
>Unsubscribe

and it just remains like this in incoming email (nothing changes or gets
converted and appears exactly as above in email)

Is there any way to get this functionality by customization? If so, kindly
suggest exact steps that too..

Appreciate all  the help.

TIA
- Bob.

On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 9:15 PM, bob 001  wrote:

> Hi Experts,
> I am just trying to use mailto: facility.
>
> It seems from last two lines of Jim Tittsler's response here :-
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg32666.html that it
> is possible.
>
> Can someone please help? Following text in footer is not working and
> appears broken when it reaches to yahoo and/or gmail.
>
> mailto:%(list_name)s@
> %(host_name)s?subject=unsubscribe&body=unsubscribe %(user_password)s
>
> Kindly suggest, this is very important for us.
>
> TIA
> - Bob
>
>

From cgregory at hwcn.org  Thu May  7 21:19:27 2009
From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 15:19:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [mm] Re:  Help for mailto: in footer.
In-Reply-To: <29be4f4d0905070815q76df1814o958fe53ea95fd262@mail.gmail.com>
References: <29be4f4d0905062115h49ad5387wa7087b1a56ed6309@mail.gmail.com>
	<29be4f4d0905070815q76df1814o958fe53ea95fd262@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 7 May 2009, bob 001 wrote:
>  list of mount options.
>
> If there is no "nosuid" option in your list of mount options, then the
> filesystem is being exported as "nosuid" by the fileserver, and you'll have
> to talk to the administrator of the fileserver to see if they will change
> that for you.
>
> --
> Brad Knowles
>         If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
> LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
>     http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks
>

From tom at tilmant.com  Tue May  5 20:16:17 2009
From: tom at tilmant.com (Tom Tilmant)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 11:16:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman appends hostname to some address on
	mail list
In-Reply-To: <49FFDCDF.5050609@shub-internet.org>
References: <000001c9cc58$736afeb0$5a40fc10$@com>
	<49FFDCDF.5050609@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <00d001c9cdad$978daad0$c6a90070$@com>

It seems the problem has been resolved by the service provider.  It appears
that the host name of the server was not in the /etc/localdomains as
required by mailman.  They made the adjustment and the problems have gone
away.

I appreciate everybody's input.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at shub-internet.org] 
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 11:30 PM
To: Tom Tilmant
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman appends hostname to some address on
mail list

on 5/3/09 8:34 PM, Tom Tilmant said:

> 2009-05-03 13:27:54 [20088] 1M0iHw-0005Dq-2U => person1 at pacbell.net
> F= P= R=lookuphost
> T=remote_smtp S=4894 H=pbimail2.prodigy.net [207.115.21.23]:25 C="250
2.0.0
> n43KRqOE012511 Message accepted for delivery" QT=2s DT=2s

That looks like qmail.  I'm not sure there are many people on this list 
who know anything about qmail.

> 2009-05-03 16:12:52 [20088] H=localhost (myhost.DOMAIN.com)
> [127.0.0.1]:45816 I=[127.0.0.1]:25 F=
> temporarily rejected RCPT : Could not complete
sender
> verify

Looks like they tried to do Sender Address Verification, which is a 
really bad idea (see ).

Regardless, they are configured to do SAV, and your system didn't verify 
that address as valid (which is not uncommon for qmail, IIRC), so your 
message failed to be accepted.  There's not much you can do about this, 
unless you can get the recipient system to stop doing SAV, or you can 
fix your qmail installation to actually validate those addresses.

Like I said, I don't know that there's anyone here who understands much 
about qmail.

>                                                                      My
> service provider claims not to support mailman any longer all through its
> still part of the Cpanel install.

IMO, if you're using cPanel, and your service provider is no longer 
providing support for the system you're using, then you've got the wrong 
service provider.

There are some service providers that are active on this mailing list, 
and I'm sure one or more of them would be more than happy to talk to you 
about your requirements and whether or not they could help you move your 
services to a different system where you can actually get the support 
you should be getting.

-- 
Brad Knowles
        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks



From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri May  8 08:10:41 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 01:10:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML in messages. How?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A03CCE1.1050000@shub-internet.org>

on 5/7/09 11:42 AM, Denis Yurashkou said:

> Anybody tried to send HTML-messages with Mailman?
> How can I send message with HTML, that will be read as HTML, neither as text
> nor as attachment?

Mailman is not a content generation system.  It is a content filtering 
and distribution system.  So, if you generate your content in HTML, and 
you do not have Mailman configured to strip or convert HTML, then that 
will be passed through to the recipients.

-- 
Brad Knowles
        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri May  8 08:12:17 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 01:12:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not receiving/sending mails
In-Reply-To: <94b8398e0905050850j1efdbe78k58cbf5818ec10def@mail.gmail.com>
References: <94b8398e0905050850j1efdbe78k58cbf5818ec10def@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A03CD41.1030200@shub-internet.org>

on 5/5/09 10:50 AM, kanika vats said:

> I think my mailman can not recieve or send mails .I have performed
> everything given in the installation guide but still facing such problems.
> Can anyone  tell me what is going wrong in my case?

Have you consulted FAQ 4.78 at ?

-- 
Brad Knowles
        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri May  8 08:14:27 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 01:14:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch: Preserve Content-Transfer-Encoding when
 adding footer or scrubbing
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A03CDC3.9070706@shub-internet.org>

on 5/5/09 12:44 PM, Petr Hroudn? said:

> Please find the patches attached/scrubbed. Let me know your opinion about this.

Yup, they were scrubbed alright.  ;-)

Seriously, discussions regarding patches to Mailman should be had on the 
mailman-developers list, and it would probably be a good idea to upload 
patches first to the tracker.

However, we do greatly appreciate your effort in producing these 
patches, and this is a discussion that I think the developers would love 
to continue to have with you.  Thanks!

-- 
Brad Knowles
        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri May  8 08:16:42 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 01:16:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question and help
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A03CE4A.9050107@shub-internet.org>

on 5/6/09 2:06 PM, Rodger Johnson said:

> configure: error: no acceptable cc found in $PATH

You don't have a C compiler available in your path.  You need to find 
out where the C compiler is and tell the configure script how to get to 
it, or if there is no C compiler on the system then you need to have one 
installed.

> When I run 'make' i get the following:
> 
> [Rodger:~/mailman/mailman-2.1.9] rodgerjo% make
> make: Command not found.

Looks like you don't have "make" installed either.  Both are developers 
tools, and not typically installed in certain distributions, especially 
when you go for just the "base" install, as opposed to the full 
"everything-including-the-kitchen-sink" install.

-- 
Brad Knowles
        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri May  8 08:17:35 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 01:17:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman appends hostname to some address
 on	mail list
In-Reply-To: <00d001c9cdad$978daad0$c6a90070$@com>
References: <000001c9cc58$736afeb0$5a40fc10$@com>	<49FFDCDF.5050609@shub-internet.org>
	<00d001c9cdad$978daad0$c6a90070$@com>
Message-ID: <4A03CE7F.5080006@shub-internet.org>

on 5/5/09 1:16 PM, Tom Tilmant said:

> It seems the problem has been resolved by the service provider.  It appears
> that the host name of the server was not in the /etc/localdomains as
> required by mailman.  They made the adjustment and the problems have gone
> away.

Mailman doesn't require this file, but perhaps your MTA does.  I am glad 
to hear that they were able to fix your problem for you.

-- 
Brad Knowles
        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May  8 17:48:42 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 08:48:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch: Preserve Content-Transfer-Encoding
	whenadding footer or scrubbing
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Petr Hroudn? wrote:
>
>The attached patches try to fix the behaviour by preserving original
>Content-Transfer-Encoding even when adding header/footer or scrubbing.
>I believe adding of footer should be as non-intrusive as possible, so
>keeping the original Content-Transfer-Encoding is as important as
>keeping e.g. format=flowed which is being done already.
>
>Please find the patches attached/scrubbed. Let me know your opinion about this.


The patches were removed by content filtering because they were not
attached with content-type text/plain, however I assume they are the
same as in the bug report at
.

For those patches, I don't see the need for any patch to Scrubber,
since what I think your patch will do is encode the "Attachment
Scrubbed" message with the encoding of the scrubbed attachment. I
don't think that's either appropriate or what you want. The scrubbed
attachment itself is decoded.

The Decorate patch is interesting. I may have some questions, but I'll
post those to the bug report when I have time to work on it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May  8 17:54:10 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 08:54:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to empty emails pending...
In-Reply-To: <23401411.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: 

steve2009 wrote:
>
>I made some test with Mailman.. more or less OK, I am still receiving some
>approval emails,everyday
>That was for testing purposes 
>
>- How can I empty Mailman sending these emails ?
>- Where are located these emails ? ( before being sent )


Follow the link in the reminder email to the admindb web interface and
discard the messages, or see the FAQ at .

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May  8 19:00:42 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 10:00:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch: Preserve
	Content-Transfer-Encodingwhenadding footer or scrubbing
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>For those patches, I don't see the need for any patch to Scrubber,
>since what I think your patch will do is encode the "Attachment
>Scrubbed" message with the encoding of the scrubbed attachment. I
>don't think that's either appropriate or what you want. The scrubbed
>attachment itself is decoded.


I withdraw the above comment. I didn't look closely enough at the
Scrubber patch. It does seem that the patch will make the encoding of
the flattened, scrubbed message equal to that of the first text/plain
part of the original message or None.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bob001 at gmail.com  Fri May  8 22:53:44 2009
From: bob001 at gmail.com (bob 001)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 13:53:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [mm] Re:  Help for mailto: in footer.
In-Reply-To: 
References: <29be4f4d0905062115h49ad5387wa7087b1a56ed6309@mail.gmail.com>
	<29be4f4d0905070815q76df1814o958fe53ea95fd262@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <29be4f4d0905081353s7d446455m2e6a270e1979ee5b@mail.gmail.com>

Resp..all,
Thanks so much for all assistance. This was very helpful. Followed the
advice from Mark and removed p/w stuff from email.

Bye now :)
- Bob.

On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Charles Gregory  wrote:

> On Thu, 7 May 2009, bob 001 wrote:
>
>>         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Sun May 10 03:28:26 2009
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 20:28:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman passwords
In-Reply-To: <1241905887.7397.19.camel@gimli.petrovitsch.priv.at>
References: <29be4f4d0905091251x32340959l7fc138fd9be5bd74@mail.gmail.com>
	<1241905887.7397.19.camel@gimli.petrovitsch.priv.at>
Message-ID: <9F942696-2038-4C6A-B00D-5DC22CC5DA29@goldmark.org>

On May 9, 2009, at 4:51 PM, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:

> - Depending on the security situation of your laptop/desktop/..., most
>  browsers allow you to let them remember the password for you. So
>  you have to really enter it only the first time.

Everyone who is concerned about security should be very strongly  
encouraging users to use good password management systems.  If a user  
doesn't switch between browsers and clients than the password  
management systems in most browsers is good enough.  For other users,  
other solutions are needed.  On the Mac, I'm a very big fan of  
1password which works as a plug-in for several browsers, is set up for  
smart syncing of your keychain across systems and has a number of  
other very well thought out design elements.  I've not really looked  
at password management systems for other platforms, but I'm sure that  
there must be some good ones out there.

Bringing this back to discussion of mailman, mailman helps illustrate  
exactly why a good password management system is needed.  Mailman  
passwords are low value, low security.  That is, there really isn't  
too much damage that can be done with a password compromise (thus "low  
value").  Also they get sent around in unencrypted email and typically  
are used on unencrypted HTTP connections.  Thus they are relatively  
easy to get at.

But more most users they are very infrequently used.  Thus, they are  
extremely unlikely to be remembered unless stored on the users system  
(reminder emails).  But because they are unlikely to be remembered, if  
users do set them, then it is very likely that users will use a  
password scheme that is predictable.

That is they will either use the same password that they use on more  
high value systems, or they will use a variant of such a password.   
That is, they might use "mm-sekret" for mailman and "ba-sekret" for  
their Bank of America account.  But mailman systems shouldn't be asked  
to treat your password as your banking password, but only as your  
mailman password.

A good password management system means that your individual passwords  
are not things that any human needs to remember. This frees them up to  
be both strong individually and independent of each other, so that the  
compromise of one of your passwords doesn't expose any of your others.

In my instructions to users, I added some explanation about these low  
security passwords

  http://lists.shepard-families.org/#sec-passwd



-j


-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From measl at mfn.org  Mon May 11 04:35:57 2009
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 21:35:57 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error I couldnt find in archives
Message-ID: 


Good Evening,

	I just finished (well, I guess *almost finished*) a mailman build 
(2.1.12), and all seems well - except for a cron output which is being 
seen as a mailman moderation request.  The crucial message at the end of 
the traceback is:

IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/home/mailman/lists/spam-l/config.pck'

which makes no sense, as the list is in use with subscribers, and seems 
fine except for this.

My only additional data would be that this was a *very* difficult build 
this time (I dont know why, it just was); and that the domain in use were 
different from the machine's original domain (ie I had to force a mailman 
onto a place it didnt belong.  A temporary fix to an emergency (and I had 
no extra hardware at the colo).

Thoughts appreciated.

//Alif
-- 
Yours,
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin_at_mfn.org
0xpgp_key_mgmt_is_broken-dont_bother

"Never belong to any party, always oppose privileged classes and public
plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to
the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always
be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by
predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty."

Joseph Pulitzer
1907 Speech

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 11 15:49:03 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 06:49:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error I couldnt find in archives
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

J.A. Terranson wrote:
>
>	I just finished (well, I guess *almost finished*) a mailman build 
>(2.1.12), and all seems well - except for a cron output which is being 
>seen as a mailman moderation request.


Because the cron is run by 'mailman' so the output is mailed to
'mailman' which is delivered to the list. If you want it to go
elsewhere, put

MAILTO=user at example.com

or whatever address you want at the beginning of Mailman's crontab.

>The crucial message at the end of 
>the traceback is:
>
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/home/mailman/lists/spam-l/config.pck'
>
>which makes no sense, as the list is in use with subscribers, and seems 
>fine except for this.


Is the 'mailman' user in the 'mailman' group?

Are permissions on /usr/home/mailman/lists/spam-l drwxrwsr-x and group
mailman?

Are permissions on /usr/home/mailman/lists/spam-l/config.pck -rw-rw----
and group mailman?

Did you run bin/check_perms?

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dave at dpss.bz  Mon May 11 20:41:29 2009
From: dave at dpss.bz (Dave Bevis)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 13:41:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't Delete List Member
Message-ID: <44D4029D-1B71-4C3F-A1E6-D2707D2DD707@dpss.bz>

I have tried everything I know to do including deleting just the  
member, cloning the member and removing all the members from the list  
and I cannot remove this member and it causes any messages to this  
list to be shunted. Info below when I tried removing member from the  
web based interface.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Dave Bevis
dave at dpss.bz



IBug in Mailman version 2.1.4

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a  
copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description  
of what happened. Thanks!
Traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/share/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
     main()
   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 198, in main
     show_results(mlist, doc, category, subcat, cgidata)
   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 498, in  
show_results
     form.AddItem(membership_options(mlist, subcat, cgidata, doc, form))
   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 974, in  
membership_options
     names = filter(None, [mlist.getMemberName(s) for s in members])
   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line  
131, in getMemberName
     self.__assertIsMember(member)
   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line  
113, in __assertIsMember
     raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
NotAMemberError: hpeoples at mail.HamiltonTN.gov



Python information:

Variable	Value
sys.version	2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple  
Computer, Inc. build 1495)]
sys.executable	/usr/bin/python
sys.prefix	/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3
sys.exec_prefix	/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3
sys.path	/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3
sys.platform	darwin



From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 11 22:39:29 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 13:39:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't Delete List Member
In-Reply-To: <44D4029D-1B71-4C3F-A1E6-D2707D2DD707@dpss.bz>
Message-ID: 

Dave Bevis wrote:

>I have tried everything I know to do including deleting just the  
>member, cloning the member and removing all the members from the list  
>and I cannot remove this member and it causes any messages to this  
>list to be shunted. Info below when I tried removing member from the  
>web based interface.
>
>Any help would be greatly appreciated.


See below.


>IBug in Mailman version 2.1.4
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a  
>copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description  
>of what happened. Thanks!
>Traceback:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/share/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
>     main()
>   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 198, in main
>     show_results(mlist, doc, category, subcat, cgidata)
>   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 498, in  
>show_results
>     form.AddItem(membership_options(mlist, subcat, cgidata, doc, form))
>   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 974, in  
>membership_options
>     names = filter(None, [mlist.getMemberName(s) for s in members])
>   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line  
>131, in getMemberName
>     self.__assertIsMember(member)
>   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line  
>113, in __assertIsMember
>     raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
>NotAMemberError: hpeoples at mail.HamiltonTN.gov


The problem is that a bug which has subsequently been fixed has allowed
a user's email address to be stored with a lower-case local part and a
mixed case domain. This confuses Mailman's membership tests.

See the end of the FAQ at  which will
point you to a script that will fix this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From measl at mfn.org  Tue May 12 04:05:25 2009
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 21:05:25 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] footers question
Message-ID: 

Greetings,

Sorry for asking what is likely s stupid question, but...

I see the variables available for me to play with at 
http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030561 , but I don't 
see where to put them.  I vaguely recall there was a page that gets copied 
with the alterations wanted, but was unable to find it in the howtos or 
archives. One of the main things we want to addd is a double dash ("--"), 
does this present any special issues for MM, or is it just text?

Thanks!
//Alif
-- 
Yours,
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin_at_mfn.org
0xpgp_key_mgmt_is_broken-dont_bother

"Never belong to any party, always oppose privileged classes and public
plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to
the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always
be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by
predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty."

Joseph Pulitzer
1907 Speech

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 12 04:43:50 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 19:43:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] footers question
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

J.A. Terransonwrote:
>
>I see the variables available for me to play with at 
>http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030561 , but I don't 
>see where to put them.  I vaguely recall there was a page that gets copied 
>with the alterations wanted, but was unable to find it in the howtos or 
>archives. One of the main things we want to addd is a double dash ("--"), 
>does this present any special issues for MM, or is it just text?


You put them inside %(...)s in the footer itself as in the default
footer and the example at the bottom of the FAQ page.

Also, if you want to use a double dash as a signature separator, it is
dash dash space ("-- "), not just two dashes, but note that there is a
bug in Mailman 2.1.10 and 2.1.11 (fixed in 2.1.12) that would remove
the trailing space from a "-- " line in the footer.

The only caveat about footers (and headers) other than the above is if
you want a literal "%" in the footer, you must double it ("%%") in
msg_footer.

Also note that there are additional variables available if the list is
personalized. See the "(Details for msg_footer)" link in the admin ->
Non-digest options section.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From faye at pamp.no  Fri May  8 18:54:48 2009
From: faye at pamp.no (Andreas Faye-Lund)
Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 18:54:48 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cant make changes to lists
Message-ID: <4A0463D8.5010203@pamp.no>

Hi

I have a serious problem with my mailman. When I try to make changes in 
the admin pages, the system just rejects any changes without any error 
messages. (Have checked for error messages in the apache and mailman logs).
The lists works for sending messages, but i cant add any users. Error 
appeared  after I changed the domain of the lists. 

From fzanluca at hotmail.com  Sun May 10 02:59:50 2009
From: fzanluca at hotmail.com (Filipe Daros)
Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 17:59:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Mailing list + message filter problem
Message-ID: <23461467.post@talk.nabble.com>


Does anyone know how to set up a Mailing list and make it accept e-mails from
anyone and also accept email from a forwarding rule within the same domain? 
For example: My main e-mail address is test at test.com and I created a list:
list at test.com. I also created a message filter that forwards any e-mail sent
to test at test.com and has the word "hello" on it's subject to the list
list at test.com. 

I tried changing generic_nonmember_action to accept but it still would hold
the emails sent with that subject and the messages get held with the reason:
"Message has implicit destination".

So again I tried changing require_explicit_destination to NO. But now when I
send emails with that specific word on it's subject the e-mails seem to
disappear.

Hope I was clear in my explanation and someone could help me.


Thank you!

Filipe.
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Mailing-list-%2B-message-filter-problem-tp23461467p23461467.html
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From nigel at headingley.org  Sat May  9 18:54:42 2009
From: nigel at headingley.org (nigel white)
Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 17:54:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] some mailing list members not getting emails
Message-ID: <4A05B552.5040800@headingley.org>

Dear friends

Some of my Mailman mailing list members are not getting the emails that 
the other members are receiving. Do you have any idea what could be 
involved here, and where I should look for the source of the issue?

I have 3 Mailman mailing lists - 'Activists' has 98 members and gets 
about 10 messages/week, 'Chat' has 194 members and gets about 2 
messages/week, 'Triangle' has 129 members and gets about 20 
messages/week. In addition I have 2 other lists that are too sleepy to 
mention.

Could it be something to do with spam blacklists? Very occasionally one 
of the messages arrives tagged as ***SPAM*** so something, somewhere, is 
making a guess that it was spam. I have searched for the domain name 
headingley.org and the shared IP address 195.216.196.131 on some 
blacklist searches but it doesn't show up.

In one case of a couple, who are both members, one receives some 
messages that the other does not and visa versa. One is @ntlworld.com 
and the other is @yahoo.co.uk.

In another case of a couple, who are both members, one received a 
message which the other did not. Both are @btinternet.com.

Its hard to say how prevalent this problem is as none of my punters know 
about messages which they are not receiving.

Any ideas of how I can trace the fault?

Many thanks
Nigel
-- 
Headingley Community web site
www.headingley.org

From petr.hroudny at gmail.com  Fri May  8 08:27:59 2009
From: petr.hroudny at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Petr_Hroudn=C3=BD?=)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 08:27:59 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch: Preserve Content-Transfer-Encoding when
	adding footer or scrubbing
In-Reply-To: <4A03CDC3.9070706@shub-internet.org>
References: 
	<4A03CDC3.9070706@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: 

2009/5/8 Brad Knowles :
> on 5/5/09 12:44 PM, Petr Hroudn? said:
>
>> Please find the patches attached/scrubbed. Let me know your opinion about
>> this.
>
> Yup, they were scrubbed alright. ?;-)
>
> Seriously, discussions regarding patches to Mailman should be had on the
> mailman-developers list, and it would probably be a good idea to upload
> patches first to the tracker.

I actually did it yesterday and attached the patches here:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/373083
MM changes content-transfer-encoding when adding footer/scrubbing

> However, we do greatly appreciate your effort in producing these patches,
> and this is a discussion that I think the developers would love to continue
> to have with you. ?Thanks!

Thanks, I'm looking forward to any comments either on the tracker or
the developers list.

Regards, Petr

From petr.hroudny at gmail.com  Fri May  8 19:56:48 2009
From: petr.hroudny at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Petr_Hroudn=C3=BD?=)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 19:56:48 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch: Preserve
	Content-Transfer-Encodingwhenadding footer or scrubbing
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

2009/5/8 Mark Sapiro :
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>For those patches, I don't see the need for any patch to Scrubber,
>>since what I think your patch will do is encode the "Attachment
>>Scrubbed" message with the encoding of the scrubbed attachment. I
>>don't think that's either appropriate or what you want. The scrubbed
>>attachment itself is decoded.
>
>
> I withdraw the above comment. I didn't look closely enough at the
> Scrubber patch. It does seem that the patch will make the encoding of
> the flattened, scrubbed message equal to that of the first text/plain
> part of the original message or None.

Yes that's exactly the idea. Scrubber already takes the charset and
RFC3676 parameters from the first text/plain part, so I made the patch
to take transfer-encoding from it as well.  Without the patches, mailman
always sets content-transfer-encoding of the flattened message according
to Python's default (e.g. base64 for UTF-8). After patching it will preserve
the sender's choice: QP / BASE64 / 8bit (None).

Regards, Petr

From terri at zone12.com  Tue May 12 08:39:16 2009
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 02:39:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cant make changes to lists
In-Reply-To: <4A0463D8.5010203@pamp.no>
References: <4A0463D8.5010203@pamp.no>
Message-ID: <4A091994.3000603@zone12.com>

Andreas Faye-Lund wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I have a serious problem with my mailman. When I try to make changes in 
> the admin pages, the system just rejects any changes without any error 
> messages. (Have checked for error messages in the apache and mailman logs).
> The lists works for sending messages, but i cant add any users. Error 
> appeared  after I changed the domain of the lists. 

Are you accessing the list through the new domain?

Do the lists know that their web domain has changed?

Do you have any sort of redirect set up for that domain?

It is almost certainly related to the change in domain.  Here's an FAQ 
link with the most probable causes and fixes:

http://wiki.list.org/x/ioA9

(There's a bunch of links there, follow the ones that seem most 
applicable to your situation!)

  Terri

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue May 12 10:27:15 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 17:27:15 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  some mailing list members not getting emails
In-Reply-To: <4A05B552.5040800@headingley.org>
References: <4A05B552.5040800@headingley.org>
Message-ID: <87d4ae20bg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

nigel white writes:

 > Some of my Mailman mailing list members are not getting the emails
 > that the other members are receiving. Do you have any idea what
 > could be involved here, and where I should look for the source of
 > the issue?

Mail is a very complex system, many things could be involved.

"Tracing", rather than guessing what the problem is, is the best way
to go about it.  First, check the Mailman logs (bounce, smtp,
smtp-failure are the obvious candidates).  Try to correlate events
with the addresses you know are valid but not receiving some posts.
Then you want to look at the SMTP logs for your MTA.  If nothing is
amiss there, it's quite possibly spam filtering at the remote host,
and your users will have to complain to their ISPs in most cases.
Some large ISPs have special staff to deal with this kind of problem,
though.

See also the FAQ which has at least a couple of entries dealing with
apparent non-delivery.

From bernie at fantasyfarm.com  Tue May 12 14:27:45 2009
From: bernie at fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 08:27:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discarding defers from the command line
Message-ID: <4A093301.12865.190185AC@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>

Is there a command-line way to "discard all messags marked defer"?
  /Bernie\

-- 
Bernie Cosell                     Fantasy Farm Fibers
mailto:bernie at fantasyfarm.com     Pearisburg, VA
    -->  Too many people, too few sheep  <--       




From b19141 at anl.gov  Tue May 12 16:10:11 2009
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 09:10:11 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list + message filter problem
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Filipe Daros '
	dated: Sat, 9 May 2009 17:59:50 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <20090512141011.B81E7175EF@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

Filipe Daros  wrote:

>Does anyone know how to set up a Mailing list and make it accept
>e-mails from anyone and also accept email from a forwarding rule within
>the same domain?  For example: My main e-mail address is test at test.com
>and I created a list:  list at test.com. I also created a message filter
>that forwards any e-mail sent to test at test.com and has the word "hello"
>on it's subject to the list list at test.com.
>
>I tried changing generic_nonmember_action to accept but it still would
>hold the emails sent with that subject and the messages get held with
>the reason:  "Message has implicit destination".
>
>So again I tried changing require_explicit_destination to NO. But now
>when I send emails with that specific word on it's subject the e-mails
>seem to disappear.
>
>Hope I was clear in my explanation and someone could help me.

What I would do is make

     test at test.com

an acceptible_alias for

     list at test.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Tue May 12 16:33:57 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 15:33:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] some mailing list members not getting emails
In-Reply-To: <4A05B552.5040800@headingley.org>
References: <4A05B552.5040800@headingley.org>
Message-ID: <20090512143355.GL21158@amyl.org.uk>

On Sat, May 09, 2009 at 05:54:42PM +0100, nigel white wrote:
> In one case of a couple, who are both members, one receives some 
> messages that the other does not and visa versa. One is @ntlworld.com 
> and the other is @yahoo.co.uk.
> 
> In another case of a couple, who are both members, one received a 
> message which the other did not. Both are @btinternet.com.

Both yahoo.co.uk and btinternet.com mail runs through much of the same
mail infrastructure.

There are issues relating to this, that have caused the various "us"es
that I do stuff for, immense problems.

(to the extent we went on the name-and-shame approach on Twitter, in one
case. That got responses)

Try changing the retry times & queue-lengths in your MTA for
yahoo/btinternet/btopenworld &c, perhaps. If you don't know how to do
that, RTFM/(Search, and then, if necessary, ask the appropriate lists.

    

    
may be of interest, if you use Exim.

-- 
If you see a long line of rats streaming off of a ship, the correct
assumption is not `Gosh, I bet that's a real nice boat now that those
rats are gone.' (Mike Sphar)

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Tue May 12 16:21:10 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 15:21:10 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discarding defers from the command line
In-Reply-To: <4A093301.12865.190185AC@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
References: <4A093301.12865.190185AC@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
Message-ID: <20090512142109.GK21158@amyl.org.uk>

On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 08:27:45AM -0400, Bernie Cosell wrote:
> Is there a command-line way to "discard all messags marked defer"?

listadmin, perhaps?

q.v., 

-- 
If all else fails, immortality can always
be assured by spectacular error.  (Galbraith)

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 13 02:58:30 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 17:58:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discarding defers from the command line
In-Reply-To: <20090512142109.GK21158@amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: 

Adam McGreggor wrote:

>On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 08:27:45AM -0400, Bernie Cosell wrote:
>> Is there a command-line way to "discard all messags marked defer"?
>
>listadmin, perhaps?
>
>q.v., 


Actually a FAQ more specific to this question is
.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dayfuaim at gmail.com  Tue May 12 16:07:18 2009
From: dayfuaim at gmail.com (Denis Yurashkou)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 18:07:18 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple users' properties set/unset
Message-ID: 

Hello All!

Do you know any way to set/unset properties of subscribers such as "Receive
as text"?
We have 2500+ users... and... you understand... )

-- 
with Best regards,
Denis A. Yurashkou

From fil at rezo.net  Wed May 13 10:55:52 2009
From: fil at rezo.net (Fil)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 10:55:52 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch for use of Postfix VERP support
In-Reply-To: 
References:  
	 
	
	 
	
Message-ID: 

Hi,

the VERP system is good to detect bounces, but it has issues when lots
of subscribers are on the same server:

(delivery temporarily suspended: connect to
smtp.xxxx.xxx.xxx[xxxxxxxxx]: Connection timed out)
(host mx01.xxxx.xxx[xxxxx] refused to talk to me: 421 4.3.2 Connection
rate limit exceeded.)

As the emails are sent one by one the connection rate to these systems
can get very high, and we get delayed.

Ideas?

-- Fil

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 13 16:01:01 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 07:01:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple users' properties set/unset
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Denis Yurashkou wrote:
>
>Do you know any way to set/unset properties of subscribers such as "Receive
>as text"?
>We have 2500+ users... and... you understand... )


Go to  and look at the scripts
set_*.py for examples.

In particular, the script set_mod.py can be changed to (un)set any
option by changing the single occurrence of mm_cfg.Moderate to the bit
you want. See the "Bitfield for user options" section of Defaults.py
for the symbolic names of the options.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed May 13 17:40:28 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 08:40:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list + message filter problem
In-Reply-To: <23461467.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: 

Filipe Daros wrote:
>
>For example: My main e-mail address is test at test.com and I created a list:
>list at test.com. I also created a message filter that forwards any e-mail sent
>to test at test.com and has the word "hello" on it's subject to the list
>list at test.com. 
>
>I tried changing generic_nonmember_action to accept but it still would hold
>the emails sent with that subject and the messages get held with the reason:
>"Message has implicit destination".
>
>So again I tried changing require_explicit_destination to NO. But now when I
>send emails with that specific word on it's subject the e-mails seem to
>disappear.


If I understand correctly, the problem is with the 'list at test.com' list
and the 'test at test.com' list works as expected.

Also, if I understand, you have a process external to Mailman the sees
a post to 'test at test.com' with 'hello' in the subject and forwards it
to 'list at test.com', and these posts were being held for "implicit
destination" by the 'list at test.com' list. You then set
require_explicit_destination to NO on 'list at test.com' which is one way
to avoid the "implicit destination" hold, and now the posts forwarded
to 'list at test.com' just "disappear".

Do they appear in the archives of 'list at test.com'?

Does 'list at test.com' have any eligible recipients (non-digest members
with delivery enabled and in some cases not an explicit addressee and
not the poster).

What's in Mailman's vette log.

See items 7, 8 and 9 in the FAQ at  for
other possibilities.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu May 14 01:17:55 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 18:17:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch for use of Postfix VERP support
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
		
	
	
Message-ID: <4A0B5523.3060006@shub-internet.org>

Fil wrote:

> As the emails are sent one by one the connection rate to these systems
> can get very high, and we get delayed.
> 
> Ideas?

Having postfix do your VERP'ing for you isn't going to help.  Mailman needs 
to know what VERP was used going out, so that it can match that when the 
bounce comes back in.  Even if you could patch Mailman so that it would 
automatically understand the postfix-style VERP and properly apply that, it 
still wouldn't help you.

Delivering larger amounts of messages from Mailman to postfix and then 
having postfix do the VERP'ing isn't going to keep your delivery rates to 
remote sites at a lower level -- if anything, it's going to increase it.


This is a postfix problem.  Find the sites that cause the problems, and set 
up separate queues for them, with different parallelism and 
re-queueing/re-try schedules.

-- 
Brad Knowles
        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 14 02:33:51 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 17:33:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list + message filter problem
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Filipe Zanluca Dar?s wrote:
>
>The address test at test.com is not a list. It is just a pop3 email account.
>
>They do appear in the archives at list at test.com!
>
>> Does 'list at test.com' have any eligible recipients (non-digest members
>> with delivery enabled and in some cases not an explicit addressee and
>> not the poster).
>
>Did not understand what you mean by that. But since I did not add any addresses I am guessing no.


So there is no problem. The post was delivered to the list, accepted,
archived and resent to all zero of the list members. Once there are
some members, they will get it too.

If your confusion is that you think the list owner should have received
something, that is an incorrect thought. The list owner is not a list
member unless explicitly added as a member and therefore does not
receive copies of normal posts just by being the owner.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 14 17:15:55 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 08:15:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list + message filter problem
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Filipe Zanluca Dar?s wrote:
>
>I had set myself as a member. I thought you meant otherwise.
>
>I receive mails sent directly to the list, but not when messages get redirected by the filter.


If the message is archived, and the list is otherwise working, then
Mailman has attempted the send the message to all the non-digest list
members with the following exceptions:

Any list member who has "nodups" set and whose address appears in To:
or Cc: of the message will not be sent a copy.

The poster (From: address) will not get a copy if the poster has "not
metoo" set.

If the list has topics defined and a member has subscribed to one or
more topics and the message matches an unsubscribed topic or no topic
if the member has not elected to receive 'non-matching' posts, the
member will not be sent a copy.

The poster will also not see a copy if the poster uses gmail/googlemail
- see .

If you are not receiving the post, and you are a non-digest member who
doesn't fall into one of the above categories, then I don't know what
the problem might be. If the problem is not one of the above, download
the raw archive from a URL like
 and find
a direct message that you did receive and a redirected message that
you didn't receive, and try to find some difference in the headers
that might explain this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rick at niof.net  Thu May 14 20:04:56 2009
From: rick at niof.net (Rick Pasotto)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 14:04:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about 'Content filtered message
	notification'
Message-ID: <20090514180456.GA1408@niof.net>

One of my mailing lists rejected a message today and I don't understand
why. The contents of the mailman message are:

  I 1                 [text/plain, 7bit, us-ascii, 0.2K]
  I 2 Got a call from SBOE today             [message/rfc822, 7bit, 14K]
  I 3   >                   [multipa/related, 7bit, 12K]
  I 4     >             [multipa/alternativ, 7bit, 3.6K]
  I 5       >       [text/plain, quoted, us-ascii, 1.2K]
  I 6       >        [text/html, quoted, us-ascii, 1.9K]
  I 7     >12758269.jpg                       [image/jpeg, base64, 8.8K]

filter_content is 'yes'
filter_mime_types is blank
pass_mime_types is: multipart/mixed, multipart/alternative, text/plain
filter_filename_extensions is exe, bat, cmd, com, pif, scr, vbs, cpl
pass_filename_extensions is blank
collapse_alternatives is 'yes'
convert_html_to_plaintext is 'yes'
for filter_action is 'Forward to List Owner'

Why was this message rejected?

(using 1:2.1.11-11 on debian)

-- 
"The ability to talk well is to a man what cutting and polishing are to
 the rough diamond. The grinding does not add anything to the diamond. It
 merely reveals its wealth." -- Orison S Marden
    Rick Pasotto    rick at niof.net    http://www.niof.net

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 14 21:04:59 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 12:04:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about 'Content filtered message
	notification'
In-Reply-To: <20090514180456.GA1408@niof.net>
Message-ID: 

Rick Pasotto wrote

>One of my mailing lists rejected a message today and I don't understand
>why. The contents of the mailman message are:
>
>  I 1                 [text/plain, 7bit, us-ascii, 0.2K]
>  I 2 Got a call from SBOE today             [message/rfc822, 7bit, 14K]
>  I 3   >                   [multipa/related, 7bit, 12K]
>  I 4     >             [multipa/alternativ, 7bit, 3.6K]
>  I 5       >       [text/plain, quoted, us-ascii, 1.2K]
>  I 6       >        [text/html, quoted, us-ascii, 1.9K]
>  I 7     >12758269.jpg                       [image/jpeg, base64, 8.8K]
>
>filter_content is 'yes'
>filter_mime_types is blank
>pass_mime_types is: multipart/mixed, multipart/alternative, text/plain
>filter_filename_extensions is exe, bat, cmd, com, pif, scr, vbs, cpl
>pass_filename_extensions is blank
>collapse_alternatives is 'yes'
>convert_html_to_plaintext is 'yes'
>for filter_action is 'Forward to List Owner'
>
>Why was this message rejected?


I don't know. If in fact the message Mailman saw was as described,
content filtering should have removed the message/rfc822 part (and all
its subparts - parts 2 through 7) but left part 1.

Is the structure above the message sent to the list, or is it the
'Content filtered message notification' you (the list owner) received
from content filtering?

If the latter, then the original message was essentially parts 3
through 7, and it was filtered because you don't accept
multipart/related.

If you don't accept a particular multipart type, that part and all its
sub-parts are filtered regardless of the types of the subparts. If you
want to accept any text/plain part regardless of where it appears in
the message hierarchy, set pass_mime_types to "multipart, text/plain"

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 15 02:32:15 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 17:32:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about 'Content filtered message
	notification'
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Rick Pasotto wrote
>
>>One of my mailing lists rejected a message today and I don't understand
>>why. The contents of the mailman message are:
>>
>>  I 1                 [text/plain, 7bit, us-ascii, 0.2K]
>>  I 2 Got a call from SBOE today             [message/rfc822, 7bit, 14K]
>>  I 3   >                   [multipa/related, 7bit, 12K]
>>  I 4     >             [multipa/alternativ, 7bit, 3.6K]
>>  I 5       >       [text/plain, quoted, us-ascii, 1.2K]
>>  I 6       >        [text/html, quoted, us-ascii, 1.9K]
>>  I 7     >12758269.jpg                       [image/jpeg, base64, 8.8K]
>>
[...]
>If the latter, then the original message was essentially parts 3
>through 7, and it was filtered because you don't accept
>multipart/related.

As an aside to the original question, I think the MIME structure

multipart/related
    multipart/alternative
        text/plain
        text/html
    image/jpeg

is fundamentally wrong since the image/jpeg part is related to the
text/html part and not to the multipart/alternative part. I think the
proper MIME structure for this message is

multipart/alternative
    text/plain
    multipart/related
        text/html
        image/jpeg

i.e., the message consists of two alternative parts, one of which is
text/plain and the other is text/html with an image.

That said, I have seen the former structure often, notably I think with
"stationery" from Microsoft MUAs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 15 02:58:51 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 17:58:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch for use of Postfix VERP support
In-Reply-To: <4A0B5523.3060006@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: 

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>This is a postfix problem.  Find the sites that cause the problems, and set 
>up separate queues for them, with different parallelism and 
>re-queueing/re-try schedules.


Brad,

Normally, I would defer to you for all things MTA as your knowledge and
experience in this area are far greater than mine, but I have been
under the impression that if an MTA has two or more messages to
deliver to the the same remote MX, that it can and perhaps will
deliver them in one SMTP session as follows

connect
HELO (or EHLO)
MAIL FROM
RCPT TO
DATA
.
MAIL FROM
RCPT TO
DATA
.
...
QUIT

I.e., each message will be sent with a separate MAIL FROM, RCPT TO and
DATA, but more than one message will be sent within a single connect,
HELO, QUIT session.

If this is actually done (or can be done) by Postfix, it might help
Fil, since the complaint in Fil's post was

(host mx01.xxxx.xxx[xxxxx] refused to talk to me: 421 4.3.2 Connection
rate limit exceeded.)

in response to a connect request. Thus, if more messages could be sent
over one connection, that would reduce the connection rate even though
it wouldn't reduce the message rate.

Also, I think from earlier messages in this thread
(
et seq) that Fil is already successfully using Postfix VERPing with
Mailman, so the only question here is can Postfix be convinced to send
multiple messages to the same MX over a single connection.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri May 15 07:14:31 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 14:14:31 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about 'Content filtered
	message	notification'
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <87hbzneymg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > As an aside to the original question, I think the MIME structure
 > 
 > multipart/related
 >     multipart/alternative
 >         text/plain
 >         text/html
 >     image/jpeg
 > 
 > is fundamentally wrong since the image/jpeg part is related to the
 > text/html part and not to the multipart/alternative part.

I don't think you can say that in general, though.  "Here's a picture
of my new baby!" with a nice inline display for the HTML subpart, and
presented by the MUA as an attachment for people who are momentarily
restricted to text-only, seems like a common application.

 > That said, I have seen the former structure often, notably I think with
 > "stationery" from Microsoft MUAs.

That's definitely wrong, though, if the image is part of the HTML
stationery.



From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri May 15 07:40:22 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 00:40:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch for use of Postfix VERP support
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A0D0046.10002@shub-internet.org>

on 5/14/09 7:58 PM, Mark Sapiro said:

> Normally, I would defer to you for all things MTA as your knowledge and
> experience in this area are far greater than mine, but I have been
> under the impression that if an MTA has two or more messages to
> deliver to the the same remote MX, that it can and perhaps will
> deliver them in one SMTP session as follows

My understanding is that the issue here isn't so much the single SMTP 
connection, which may or may not get re-used, depending on the queueing 
strategy of the sender.

If you want to increase your efficiency in this area, then you make sure 
that your submission actually just puts the message into the queue in 
deferred mode and doesn't make an immediate delivery attempt, and of 
course you turn off all spam and other access control checks on the 
outbound side, since you should have already done all those on inbound. 
  You then allow later queue runs to come along and pick that up, along 
with any other messages bound for that destination.

I think we cover this in the various "performance" articles in the FAQ Wiki.


My understanding is that the issue here is whether or not the VERP'ed 
format will be understood and usable by Mailman if there is a bounce, 
and how many unique messages will be delivered, as opposed to how many 
connections will be created to deliver the messages.

-- 
Brad Knowles
        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From rick at niof.net  Fri May 15 13:46:57 2009
From: rick at niof.net (Rick Pasotto)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 07:46:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about 'Content filtered
	message	notification'
In-Reply-To: <87hbzneymg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: 
	
	<87hbzneymg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20090515114657.GD32234@niof.net>

On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 02:14:31PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Mark Sapiro writes:
> 
>  > As an aside to the original question, I think the MIME structure
>  > 
>  > multipart/related
>  >     multipart/alternative
>  >         text/plain
>  >         text/html
>  >     image/jpeg
>  > 
>  > is fundamentally wrong since the image/jpeg part is related to the
>  > text/html part and not to the multipart/alternative part.
> 
> I don't think you can say that in general, though.  "Here's a picture
> of my new baby!" with a nice inline display for the HTML subpart, and
> presented by the MUA as an attachment for people who are momentarily
> restricted to text-only, seems like a common application.
> 
>  > That said, I have seen the former structure often, notably I think
>  > with "stationery" from Microsoft MUAs.
> 
> That's definitely wrong, though, if the image is part of the HTML
> stationery.

In this case, the image was the company logo. I think that would count
as part of the stationery.

-- 
"Remember happiness doesn't depend upon who you are or what you have; it
 depends solely on what you think." -- Dale Carnegie
    Rick Pasotto    rick at niof.net    http://www.niof.net

From measl at mfn.org  Fri May 15 17:36:46 2009
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:36:46 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM-2.1.12 Bug (non critical)
Message-ID: 

Greetings.

a subscriber of the "tagged" form:

	lists_s+spaml at example.com

does not get found on the subscriber search box.  It works fine, and is 
seen on the "L" subscribers page, but it cannot be found via search 
(likely special characters).

FYI :-)

//Alif

-- 
Yours,
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin_at_mfn.org
0xpgp_key_mgmt_is_broken-dont_bother

"Never belong to any party, always oppose privileged classes and public
plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to
the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always
be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by
predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty."

Joseph Pulitzer
1907 Speech

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 15 18:26:43 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 09:26:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM-2.1.12 Bug (non critical)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

J.A. Terranson wrote:
>
>a subscriber of the "tagged" form:
>
>	lists_s+spaml at example.com
>
>does not get found on the subscriber search box.  It works fine, and is 
>seen on the "L" subscribers page, but it cannot be found via search 
>(likely special characters).


This is not a bug.

The entry in the search box is a regular expression and '+' has a
special meaning in regular expressions. Searching for "lists_s+spaml"
says find all members whose address contains "lists_" followed by 1 or
more "s" (s+) followed by "spaml"

If you want to find a literal "+" you have to escape it as in
"lists_s\+spaml".

Follow the "(help)" link next to "Find member" for more info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From measl at mfn.org  Fri May 15 18:37:59 2009
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 11:37:59 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM-2.1.12 Bug (non critical)
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 


On Fri, 15 May 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> >a subscriber of the "tagged" form:
> >
> >	lists_s+spaml at example.com
> >
> >does not get found on the subscriber search box.  It works fine, and is 
> >seen on the "L" subscribers page, but it cannot be found via search 
> >(likely special characters).
> 
> 
> This is not a bug.

OK, it's poor documentation then.  if the search box is a regex and not a 
straight search, it should be clearly marked as such.  The instance of "+" 
showing up in mailing lists is, as you know, very high, due to the "+ 
delimiter being used to "tag" mail.  A blank search box that says "find 
member" should be able to take the members actual signed on address.  If 
it can't because it's a regex and requires special care, that should be 
noted *on the box*.

> > The entry in the search box is a regular expression and '+' has a 
> special meaning in regular expressions.

It also has a special meaning in email: mailman is an email management 
platform: it should anticipate this common use form of the delimiter, or 
warn people that they need to use regex rules to accomplish what is 
presented as a simple text search.

//Alif

-- 
Yours,
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin_at_mfn.org
0xpgp_key_mgmt_is_broken-dont_bother

"Never belong to any party, always oppose privileged classes and public
plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to
the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always
be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by
predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty."

Joseph Pulitzer
1907 Speech

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 15 19:26:45 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:26:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM-2.1.12 Bug (non critical)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

J.A. Terranson wrote:
>
>On Fri, 15 May 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> >a subscriber of the "tagged" form:
>> >
>> >	lists_s+spaml at example.com
>> >
>> >does not get found on the subscriber search box.  It works fine, and is 
>> >seen on the "L" subscribers page, but it cannot be found via search 
>> >(likely special characters).
>> 
>> 
>> This is not a bug.
>
>OK, it's poor documentation then.  if the search box is a regex and not a 
>straight search, it should be clearly marked as such.

The page currently says "Find member (help):" followed by a text box
and a "Search..." button. The "(help)" is a link to a page documenting
Python regular expressions.

Please let me know specifically what you would like to see instead.
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From measl at mfn.org  Fri May 15 19:32:58 2009
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 12:32:58 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM-2.1.12 Bug (non critical)
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 


On Fri, 15 May 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> J.A. Terranson wrote:
> >
> >On Fri, 15 May 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >
> >> >a subscriber of the "tagged" form:
> >> >
> >> >	lists_s+spaml at example.com
> >> >
> >> >does not get found on the subscriber search box.  It works fine, and is 
> >> >seen on the "L" subscribers page, but it cannot be found via search 
> >> >(likely special characters).
> >> 
> >> 
> >> This is not a bug.
> >
> >OK, it's poor documentation then.  if the search box is a regex and not a 
> >straight search, it should be clearly marked as such.
> 
> The page currently says "Find member (help):" followed by a text box
> and a "Search..." button. The "(help)" is a link to a page documenting
> Python regular expressions.
> 
> Please let me know specifically what you would like to see instead.

Really, I'd prefer a button to select from regex or text search.  That 
aside, a note at the top of the box stating this is *not* a text search, 
see "help" for more informatoin on how to search" or something like that.

Its just very counterintuitive to have a box that says search for members, 
and to be unable to insert a members actual address and get a hit.

Thanks!

//Alif

-- 
Yours,
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin_at_mfn.org
0xpgp_key_mgmt_is_broken-dont_bother

"Never belong to any party, always oppose privileged classes and public
plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to
the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always
be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by
predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty."

Joseph Pulitzer
1907 Speech

From cgregory at hwcn.org  Fri May 15 19:51:54 2009
From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 13:51:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting messages from archive....
Message-ID: 


Has anyone ever developed a point-n-click tool to delete
a message from an archive, preferably by just eliminating the 
From/To/Subject and body, but leaving the links intact, with
a placeholder message that says "message content removed", etc?

I found lots of FAQ's and posts on the 'manual' way to do it.
Just surprised there were no references to a quick-n-easy tool....

It would be really nice if this could integrate with the
mailman admin pages, so that list owners could manage their own
archives.... Alternately, an e-mail control (which I could key to 
sender address) would suffice.

- Charles

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 15 20:40:38 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 11:40:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting messages from archive....
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Charles Gregory wrote:
>
>Has anyone ever developed a point-n-click tool to delete
>a message from an archive, preferably by just eliminating the 
>From/To/Subject and body, but leaving the links intact, with
>a placeholder message that says "message content removed", etc?


Not as far as I know.


>I found lots of FAQ's and posts on the 'manual' way to do it.
>Just surprised there were no references to a quick-n-easy tool....
>
>It would be really nice if this could integrate with the
>mailman admin pages, so that list owners could manage their own
>archives.... Alternately, an e-mail control (which I could key to 
>sender address) would suffice.


One issue is the tool wouldn't be so simple. You can't just edit the
HTML article because if that's all you do, the content will return if
you ever rebuilt the archive. The content is in 3 or 4 places - the
LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox raw archive, the HTML article, the
periodic .txt file and the periodic .txt.gz file if any.

The cleanest way to do it is to edit the LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox
and rebuild the pipermail archive, but that is an expensive process
and can have unintended side effects.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cpz at tuunq.com  Fri May 15 20:48:12 2009
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 11:48:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM-2.1.12 Bug (non critical)
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A0DB8EC.7010208@tuunq.com>

J.A. Terranson wrote:
> On Fri, 15 May 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Please let me know specifically what you would like to see instead.

> Really, I'd prefer a button to select from regex or text search.  That 
> aside, a note at the top of the box stating this is *not* a text search, 
> see "help" for more informatoin on how to search" or something like that.
> 
> Its just very counterintuitive to have a box that says search for members, 
> and to be unable to insert a members actual address and get a hit.


I've run into this with countless applications- the programmer uses a 
regexp since it's so powerful, but the user expects to enter "zba*" 
and get everything starting with "zba". Ditto on not finding something 
you can see in a listing.  Remember that while many list admins are 
either programmers or system managers, many are just users, and 
wouldn't know a regexp if it bit them.

IMHO, some options (in order of my desirability)...
radio buttons to select regexp or glob behavior (default to glob?)
text around the box that says "it's a regexp"
make the search use a glob

If I had the time at the moment, I'd think about developing a patch 
for this, but I don't, so I won't.

 > On Fri, 15 May 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 > The page currently says "Find member (help):" followed by a text box
 > and a "Search..." button. The "(help)" is a link to a page documenting
 > Python regular expressions.

However, the average user -knows- that "zba*" should match "zbang". 
They don't think they need any help.

z!

From barry at list.org  Fri May 15 21:51:25 2009
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 15:51:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM-2.1.12 Bug (non critical)
In-Reply-To: <4A0DB8EC.7010208@tuunq.com>
References: 
	
	<4A0DB8EC.7010208@tuunq.com>
Message-ID: 

On May 15, 2009, at 2:48 PM, Carl Zwanzig wrote:

> I've run into this with countless applications- the programmer uses  
> a regexp since it's so powerful, but the user expects to enter  
> "zba*" and get everything starting with "zba". Ditto on not finding  
> something you can see in a listing.  Remember that while many list  
> admins are either programmers or system managers, many are just  
> users, and wouldn't know a regexp if it bit them.
>
> IMHO, some options (in order of my desirability)...
> radio buttons to select regexp or glob behavior (default to glob?)
> text around the box that says "it's a regexp"
> make the search use a glob

I tend to agree that "normal" users think of globs instead of  
regexps.  Unfortunately, there's no good non-filesystem glob module in  
Python that I know of.  Ideally, there'd be a module that translates  
globs to regexps.  That might not be too hard.

-Barry

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From tmz at pobox.com  Fri May 15 22:16:42 2009
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 16:16:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM-2.1.12 Bug (non critical)
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	<4A0DB8EC.7010208@tuunq.com>
	
Message-ID: <20090515201642.GW4433@inocybe.localdomain>

Barry Warsaw wrote:
> I tend to agree that "normal" users think of globs instead of
> regexps.  Unfortunately, there's no good non-filesystem glob module
> in Python that I know of.  Ideally, there'd be a module that
> translates globs to regexps.  That might not be too hard.

Would fnmatch.translate work?

http://docs.python.org/library/fnmatch.html#fnmatch.translate

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
User, n.: The word computer professionals use when they mean "idiot."
    -- Dave Barry

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From barry at list.org  Fri May 15 22:35:56 2009
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 16:35:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM-2.1.12 Bug (non critical)
In-Reply-To: <20090515201642.GW4433@inocybe.localdomain>
References: 
	
	<4A0DB8EC.7010208@tuunq.com>
	
	<20090515201642.GW4433@inocybe.localdomain>
Message-ID: 

On May 15, 2009, at 4:16 PM, Todd Zullinger wrote:

> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9Barry Warsaw wrote:
>> I tend to agree that "normal" users think of globs instead of
>> regexps.  Unfortunately, there's no good non-filesystem glob module
>> in Python that I know of.  Ideally, there'd be a module that
>> translates globs to regexps.  That might not be too hard.
>
> Would fnmatch.translate work?
>
> http://docs.python.org/library/fnmatch.html#fnmatch.translate

Indeed!  Nice find.
-Barry

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From cgregory at hwcn.org  Fri May 15 22:45:57 2009
From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 16:45:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [mm] Deleting messages from archive....
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 15 May 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> One issue is the tool wouldn't be so simple. You can't just edit the
> HTML article because if that's all you do, the content will return if
> you ever rebuilt the archive. The content is in 3 or 4 places - the
> LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox raw archive, the HTML article, the
> periodic .txt file and the periodic .txt.gz file if any.

(nod) And for what I want, it would have to edit each of those spots,
to avoid any link-breaking due to numbering issues....

> The cleanest way to do it is to edit the LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox
> and rebuild the pipermail archive, but that is an expensive process
> and can have unintended side effects.

As noted in the (excellent) FAQ's, this disturbs external links.
So I'm going for the nitty-gritty version....

- Charles

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Fri May 15 23:04:54 2009
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 23:04:54 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting messages from archive....
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <20090515210454.GC27487@charite.de>

* Mark Sapiro :
> Charles Gregory wrote:
> >
> >Has anyone ever developed a point-n-click tool to delete
> >a message from an archive, preferably by just eliminating the 
> >From/To/Subject and body, but leaving the links intact, with
> >a placeholder message that says "message content removed", etc?
> 
> 
> Not as far as I know.

It would totally rule. Especially on python.org, where people regret
posting their full name because "employers tend to google them", and
then come running to us, asking "Please remove my name".

Fucktards.

But I like the idea of such a function.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12200 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de

From barry at list.org  Fri May 15 23:12:23 2009
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 17:12:23 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting messages from archive....
In-Reply-To: <20090515210454.GC27487@charite.de>
References: 
	
	<20090515210454.GC27487@charite.de>
Message-ID: <63C063C4-9362-4352-B7FB-E90A0E7D7044@list.org>

On May 15, 2009, at 5:04 PM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:

> * Mark Sapiro :
>> Charles Gregory wrote:
>>>
>>> Has anyone ever developed a point-n-click tool to delete
>>> a message from an archive, preferably by just eliminating the
>>> From/To/Subject and body, but leaving the links intact, with
>>> a placeholder message that says "message content removed", etc?
>>
>>
>> Not as far as I know.
>
> It would totally rule. Especially on python.org, where people regret
> posting their full name because "employers tend to google them", and
> then come running to us, asking "Please remove my name".
>
> Fucktards.
>
> But I like the idea of such a function.

I've long thought that all archives should be vended dynamically  
rather than statically,  of course with a cache to improve performance  
as necessary.  This would allow you to do lots of interesting things,  
such as add links dynamically (e.g. "bug 12345" pointing to your bug  
tracker), or on-the-fly modification of archive style or anti-spam  
obfuscation, with the proper cache invalidation.

This would also allow you to "delete" a message from the archive, by  
laying down a marker that causes the program to instead return a "not  
available" or cleansed message without affecting the underlying data.

-Barry

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From measl at mfn.org  Sat May 16 02:02:34 2009
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 19:02:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM-2.1.12 Bug (non critical)
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	<4A0DB8EC.7010208@tuunq.com>
	
Message-ID: 


On Fri, 15 May 2009, Barry Warsaw wrote:

> > IMHO, some options (in order of my desirability)...
> > radio buttons to select regexp or glob behavior (default to glob?)
> > text around the box that says "it's a regexp"
> > make the search use a glob
> 
> I tend to agree that "normal" users think of globs instead of regexps.
> Unfortunately, there's no good non-filesystem glob module in Python that I
> know of.  Ideally, there'd be a module that translates globs to regexps.  That
> might not be too hard.

I'd even be OK with regex, as long as it was clear up front that this 
iwhat we were dealing with.  Simply a note in the box?

> 
> -Barry
> 

-- 
Yours,
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin_at_mfn.org
0xpgp_key_mgmt_is_broken-dont_bother

"Never belong to any party, always oppose privileged classes and public
plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to
the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always
be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by
predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty."

Joseph Pulitzer
1907 Speech

From measl at mfn.org  Sat May 16 02:48:00 2009
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 19:48:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Operational Question
Message-ID: 

Greetings, Redux. :-)

	I have a long running MM with three public lists in it.  One of 
them is archived, and two of them are not.  i noticed today that the 
*non-archived* lists have attachments stored (gigs of them) under:
 
~mailman/logs/archives.old//attachments///attachment.html

It doesnt appear for every day, but it appears to be for every day that 
had attachments.

Is this normal?  I dont have this stuff for the archived list, which has 
all archives and looks fine.  I'm flubbered.  I think this is the missing 
question to the Great Disappearing Disk Space Question as well: it's 
volume fits perfectly.

Where did I miss this in the FAQ?
Thanks!
-- 
Yours,
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin_at_mfn.org
0xpgp_key_mgmt_is_broken-dont_bother

"Never belong to any party, always oppose privileged classes and public
plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to
the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always
be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by
predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty."

Joseph Pulitzer
1907 Speech

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May 16 03:09:48 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 18:09:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Operational Question
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

J.A. Terranson wrote:
>
>	I have a long running MM with three public lists in it.  One of 
>them is archived, and two of them are not.  i noticed today that the 
>*non-archived* lists have attachments stored (gigs of them) under:
> 
>~mailman/logs/archives.old//attachments///attachment.html
>
>It doesnt appear for every day, but it appears to be for every day that 
>had attachments.
>
>Is this normal?


Yes. These are the attachments (or html parts) that were scrubbed from
the plain text digest and stored and replaced by links to the content
in the digest. The only way to avoid this is to set the list(s)
digestable attribute to No.


>I dont have this stuff for the archived list, which has 
>all archives and looks fine.


I don't know why you wouldn't have it for the archived list unless the
archived list also has content filtering that removes all the
attachments and html parts. In fact, for archived lists there are
normally two copies of every scrubbed part - one scrubbed from the
digest and one scrubbed from the archived message - unless
scrub_nondigest is Yes in which case the attachments/html parts are
scrubbed only once before the message is delivered/digested/archived.


>I'm flubbered.  I think this is the missing 
>question to the Great Disappearing Disk Space Question as well: it's 
>volume fits perfectly.
>
>Where did I miss this in the FAQ?


I don't think it's in the FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From measl at mfn.org  Sat May 16 03:24:02 2009
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 20:24:02 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Operational Question
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 


On Fri, 15 May 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> J.A. Terranson wrote:
> >
> >	I have a long running MM with three public lists in it.  One of 
> >them is archived, and two of them are not.  i noticed today that the 
> >*non-archived* lists have attachments stored (gigs of them) under:
> > 
> >~mailman/logs/archives.old//attachments///attachment.html
> >
> >It doesnt appear for every day, but it appears to be for every day that 
> >had attachments.
> >
> >Is this normal?
> 
> 
> Yes. These are the attachments (or html parts) that were scrubbed from
> the plain text digest and stored and replaced by links to the content
> in the digest. The only way to avoid this is to set the list(s)
> digestable attribute to No.

Am i safe setting to off and then deleting this garbage?

-- 
Yours,
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin_at_mfn.org
0xpgp_key_mgmt_is_broken-dont_bother

"Never belong to any party, always oppose privileged classes and public
plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to
the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always
be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by
predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty."

Joseph Pulitzer
1907 Speech

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May 16 04:09:40 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 19:09:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Operational Question
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

J.A. Terranson wrote:
>
>On Fri, 15 May 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>> Yes. These are the attachments (or html parts) that were scrubbed from
>> the plain text digest and stored and replaced by links to the content
>> in the digest. The only way to avoid this is to set the list(s)
>> digestable attribute to No.
>
>Am i safe setting to off and then deleting this garbage?


You can delete any of it at any time. The worst that happens is someone
has saved a digest with a link that no longer works. If you actually
have no digest members, this is not a problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From measl at mfn.org  Sat May 16 04:31:27 2009
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 21:31:27 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Operational Question
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 


On Fri, 15 May 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> >Am i safe setting to off and then deleting this garbage?
> 
> 
> You can delete any of it at any time. The worst that happens is someone
> has saved a digest with a link that no longer works. If you actually
> have no digest members, this is not a problem.

Interesting question: Since I dont save archives, CAN i have digest 
members?

-- 
Yours,
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin_at_mfn.org
0xpgp_key_mgmt_is_broken-dont_bother

"Never belong to any party, always oppose privileged classes and public
plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to
the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always
be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by
predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty."

Joseph Pulitzer
1907 Speech

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May 16 05:36:24 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 20:36:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Operational Question
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

J.A. Terranson wrote:
>
>On Fri, 15 May 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> >Am i safe setting to off and then deleting this garbage?
>> 
>> 
>> You can delete any of it at any time. The worst that happens is someone
>> has saved a digest with a link that no longer works. If you actually
>> have no digest members, this is not a problem.
>
>Interesting question: Since I dont save archives, CAN i have digest 
>members?


Sure you can.

The Digest options -> digestable setting controls whether you can have
digest members. It has nothing to do with archiving or archives other
than the fact that if your list is digestable and if content filtering
allows other than text/plain content, that non-text/plain content (and
even text/plain content with unknown character set) will be removed
from the 'plain' format digest as it is built, whether or not it
actually has any recipients, and stored in the
archives/private/LISTNAME/attachments/ tree and replaced by a link to
the stored content.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat May 16 09:42:55 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 16:42:55 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting messages from archive....
In-Reply-To: <63C063C4-9362-4352-B7FB-E90A0E7D7044@list.org>
References: 
	
	<20090515210454.GC27487@charite.de>
	<63C063C4-9362-4352-B7FB-E90A0E7D7044@list.org>
Message-ID: <87y6sxebnk.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Removing mailman-developers because I'm not talking about implementation.

Barry Warsaw writes:

 > I've long thought that all archives should be vended dynamically  
 > rather than statically,  of course with a cache to improve performance  
 > as necessary.

I think it's a great option.  But first Mailman would have to support
archives, which it doesn't, really.  pipermail is fine for small
projects and some larger projects that are willing to put up with its
limitations, but it's pretty creaky.  Anything else (eg MHonArc) is
"you do it yourself, see the tracker".

IMO, trying to support archiving is mission creep the project should
avoid, except for providing hooks to make it easier to use 3rd party
archivers.

N.B.  That doesn't mean Barry and Mark shouldn't contribute to
archivers, if they want to.


From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Sat May 16 12:50:28 2009
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=)
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 12:50:28 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch for use of Postfix VERP support
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20090516105027.GN4804@mail.incertum.net>

* Jesper Dybdal  wrote:
> If anybody should be interested, I've placed the modified patch,
> directly usable for 2.1.11, at
> http://www.dybdal.dk/mailman-2.1.11-postfix-verp.patch

Uh oh. I remember that patch, I've even tested it (German:
http://www.incertum.net/archives/307-Postfix,-Mailman-und-XVERP.html),
but it was incomplete (I found that out only weeks after I had written
that test).

I don't remember any specific details, but there were definitely
problems with double VERP'ifying. Something with the monthly
reminders. Whatever you do, don't simply go live with this one,
perform more testing first: Password reminders, monthly membership
reminders, moderation messages, reject messages and so on.

Don't get me wrong, being able to reduce the number of queue files
created can be a major performance increase on busy servers, the above
patch just doesn't cut it.


Cheers
Stefan
-- 
Stefan F?rster     http://www.incertum.net/     Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9

From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Sat May 16 12:54:58 2009
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=)
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 12:54:58 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + Postfix - Too Many Connections
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20090516105457.GO4804@mail.incertum.net>

* "Lie, Jafaruddin"  wrote:
> We sent out mailing lists to schools here in Australia, and recently we've
> been getting "Too Many Connections #421" errors from them. Mails destined to
> gmail or hotmail are OK.

Not really a mailman problem, have a look at:

http://www.postfix.org/QSHAPE_README.html#backlog


Ciao
Stefan
-- 
Stefan F?rster     http://www.incertum.net/     Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9
Eher h?lt der Mensch das Feuer im Munde als ein Geheimnis.
- Petronius

From barry at list.org  Sat May 16 16:49:07 2009
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 10:49:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting messages from archive....
In-Reply-To: <87y6sxebnk.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: 
	
	<20090515210454.GC27487@charite.de>
	<63C063C4-9362-4352-B7FB-E90A0E7D7044@list.org>
	<87y6sxebnk.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <2CFBA2B0-4F23-4983-8212-821F637B607C@list.org>

On May 16, 2009, at 3:42 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> Removing mailman-developers because I'm not talking about  
> implementation.
>
> Barry Warsaw writes:
>
>> I've long thought that all archives should be vended dynamically
>> rather than statically,  of course with a cache to improve  
>> performance
>> as necessary.
>
> I think it's a great option.  But first Mailman would have to support
> archives, which it doesn't, really.  pipermail is fine for small
> projects and some larger projects that are willing to put up with its
> limitations, but it's pretty creaky.  Anything else (eg MHonArc) is
> "you do it yourself, see the tracker".
>
> IMO, trying to support archiving is mission creep the project should
> avoid, except for providing hooks to make it easier to use 3rd party
> archivers.

Mailman 3 makes it very easy to add archivers.  I already have  
implementations of hooks for Pipermail, MHonArc, and mail- 
archives.com.  They're not mutually exclusive btw.

>
> N.B.  That doesn't mean Barry and Mark shouldn't contribute to
> archivers, if they want to.

I've long thought that Pipermail should be split off from Mailman as a  
project, perhaps still bundled in whatever sumo distribution we  
provide.  It would be very cool if a group of people worked together  
to make Pipermail not suck.

-Barry

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From bernie at fantasyfarm.com  Sat May 16 16:57:43 2009
From: bernie at fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell)
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 10:57:43 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discarding defers from the command line
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20090512142109.GK21158@amyl.org.uk>,
	
Message-ID: <4A0E9C27.3527.2E2439FE@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>

On 12 May 2009 at 17:58, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> >On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 08:27:45AM -0400, Bernie Cosell wrote:
> >> Is there a command-line way to "discard all messags marked defer"?
> 
> Actually a FAQ more specific to this question is
> .

I've been pushing on this some, to no avail at the moment.  The simple 
part was finding the data directory, the wiki isn't exactly correct: on 
our install, at least, the data directory is in /var/lib/mailman.  Since 
it seems to be constructed from VAR_PREFIX I'd guess that on most setups 
it'd be in a different place than ~mailman.

What I'm running into now is that the command-line pgm has to be run as 
user 'mailman' and I can't do that [at least not very easily].  I tried 
setting discard to be setgid, but that seems not to work, so I guess this 
is a followon question: is there a way to make python scripts run 
setuid/setgid?  [basically, my situation is that I can only get to the 
mail server logged in as me, NOT logged in as mailman] -- I suppose I 
could always write a setgid Perl one-liner to run the Python discard..:o)

  /Bernie\

-- 
Bernie Cosell                     Fantasy Farm Fibers
mailto:bernie at fantasyfarm.com     Pearisburg, VA
    -->  Too many people, too few sheep  <--       




From cgregory at hwcn.org  Sat May 16 17:33:24 2009
From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory)
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 11:33:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [mm] Deleting messages from archive....
In-Reply-To: <20090515210454.GC27487@charite.de>
References: 
	
	<20090515210454.GC27487@charite.de>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 15 May 2009, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
>> >Has anyone ever developed a point-n-click tool to delete
>> >a message from an archive, preferably by just eliminating the 
>> >From/To/Subject and body, but leaving the links intact, with
>> >a placeholder message that says "message content removed", etc?
> It would totally rule. Especially on python.org, where people regret
> posting their full name because "employers tend to google them", and
> then come running to us, asking "Please remove my name".

Not withstanding your opinion of people who do this (which I cannot 
entirely disagree with - grin) you have brough to mind a number of 
scenarios where it might be beneficial to be able to quickly edit a
message, rather than delete it completely. For instance, someone posts a 
message with someone else's (unapproved) web link. The link needs to be 
removed, but the rest of the posting can stay as it is....

As I think about this more deeply, I realize there are serious programming 
considerations. For example, the mesage subject appears in the pages that 
'index' the archive, as well as in the 'previous' and 'next' links of 
neighboring messages, sometimes not even in the same week/directory....
I think if we permit editing of the subject it will have to, by default, 
change ALL references to that subject in all messages, just to keep things 
simple.... Presumably the only time a subject would be changed would be if 
it is offensive/abusive, so you would *want* to change alll of them. If 
some moron posts messages under the wrong subject, that is life on the 
list. We're not fixing that..... LOL

Of course, there are some ethical issues to visit. Any editor should be 
certain to insert a disclaimer in the message body which says "THIS 
MESSAGE HAS BEEN EDITED BY LIST ADMINS SUBSEQUENT TO POSTING", just so
that original authors do not feel they've been misrepresented, etc, etc.

I can presume that if someone is comfortable with regenerating their 
archive from the mbox at ANY time, they wouldn't mind editing it for 
occasions like these. So I'm going to presume that this utility that is 
forming in my mind is for people who have already decided that they will 
*never* regenerate their archives from mboxes. Numbering and links will 
always be preserved.... So we need only be concerned with a utility that 
will updates the html and txt archives...

- Charles

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May 16 18:00:15 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 09:00:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discarding defers from the command line
In-Reply-To: <4A0E9C27.3527.2E2439FE@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
Message-ID: 

Bernie Cosell wrote:

>On 12 May 2009 at 17:58, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> >On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 08:27:45AM -0400, Bernie Cosell wrote:
>> >> Is there a command-line way to "discard all messags marked defer"?
>> 
>> Actually a FAQ more specific to this question is
>> .
>
>I've been pushing on this some, to no avail at the moment.  The simple 
>part was finding the data directory, the wiki isn't exactly correct: on 
>our install, at least, the data directory is in /var/lib/mailman.  Since 
>it seems to be constructed from VAR_PREFIX I'd guess that on most setups 
>it'd be in a different place than ~mailman.


I added a note to the FAQ about this.


>What I'm running into now is that the command-line pgm has to be run as 
>user 'mailman' and I can't do that [at least not very easily].  I tried 
>setting discard to be setgid, but that seems not to work,


SETGID only works for binary executables. It doesn't work for scripts
of any kind.

Can you add yourself to the 'mailman' group? That should be sufficient.


>so I guess this 
>is a followon question: is there a way to make python scripts run 
>setuid/setgid?  [basically, my situation is that I can only get to the 
>mail server logged in as me, NOT logged in as mailman] -- I suppose I 
>could always write a setgid Perl one-liner to run the Python discard..:o)


It won't work with Perl either. It has to be a binary executable. Thats
the reason for all the compiled SETGID wrappers in mailman's cgi-bin/
and mail/ directories.

It seems you are able to get some kind of privileges on the mail server
if you are able to make mailman files SETGID. Can you run sudo? Can
you run newgrp to set your logged in group to 'mailman'?

The attached members.c.txt file is the source of a wrapper I use (the
executable is SETGID mailman) to allow apache (php scripts) to execute
certain mailman commands. If all else fails, you could strip the
command check logic or add discard to the array of allowed commands
and use it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From cgregory at hwcn.org  Sat May 16 18:03:50 2009
From: cgregory at hwcn.org (Charles Gregory)
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 12:03:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting messages from archive....
In-Reply-To: <2CFBA2B0-4F23-4983-8212-821F637B607C@list.org>
References: 
	
	<20090515210454.GC27487@charite.de>
	<63C063C4-9362-4352-B7FB-E90A0E7D7044@list.org>
	<87y6sxebnk.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<2CFBA2B0-4F23-4983-8212-821F637B607C@list.org>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 16 May 2009, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> I've long thought that Pipermail should be split off from Mailman as a 
> project, perhaps still bundled in whatever sumo distribution we provide. 
> It would be very cool if a group of people worked together to make 
> Pipermail not suck.

As a side note, is there a limit to how large the archive mbox can grow?
I've got several years in an archive now, and its pushing past 64MB...
Am I going to hit a limit soon? (CentOS 4, if that matters)

- Charles

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May 16 18:18:38 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 09:18:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting messages from archive....
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Charles Gregory wrote:
>
>As a side note, is there a limit to how large the archive mbox can grow?
>I've got several years in an archive now, and its pushing past 64MB...
>Am I going to hit a limit soon? (CentOS 4, if that matters)


Many older *nix OSs limit files to 2GB (32 bit integer). Newer OS
versions don't have this limit. Mailman imposes no limit beyond those
of your OS and available storage.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat May 16 23:28:10 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 16:28:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discarding defers from the command line
In-Reply-To: <4A0E9C27.3527.2E2439FE@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
References: <20090512142109.GK21158@amyl.org.uk>,
	
	<4A0E9C27.3527.2E2439FE@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>
Message-ID: <4A0F2FEA.5040003@shub-internet.org>

on 5/16/09 9:57 AM, Bernie Cosell said:

> I've been pushing on this some, to no avail at the moment.  The simple 
> part was finding the data directory, the wiki isn't exactly correct: on 
> our install, at least, the data directory is in /var/lib/mailman.

Then you're using a version of Mailman that was provided as part of a 
binary package from some other source, and not our canonical source-only 
distribution of Mailman.

That's not necessarily a problem, but you do need to keep in mind that 
all our documentation and FAQs are written to the only standard we have, 
which is the original source code that we provide.  We can't control 
what anyone else does with whatever they provide, nor can we write their 
documentation for them.

-- 
Brad Knowles
        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From bryan_humphreys at corkcity.ie  Sun May 17 13:41:19 2009
From: bryan_humphreys at corkcity.ie (Bryan Humphreys)
Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 12:41:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fetchmail with Mailman
Message-ID: <000701c9d6e4$65edd44e$0504230a@corkcity.local>



From carloswill at gmail.com  Fri May 15 03:45:33 2009
From: carloswill at gmail.com (Carlos Williams)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 21:45:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installation On Separate Server Plausible?
Message-ID: 

I am being told that my Postfix email server can no longer run Apache
on the same physical server. The management has decided for specific
reasons that Apache can only be installed and configured on the web
server, not the mail server. The mail server will simply run Postfix /
Dovecot.

This will force me to move web mail (RoundCube) & MailMan to my web
server! My question is can I have MailMan function from scratch (no
data needs to be migrated to the new install) from my web server and
work?

My mail and web server are on the same LAN and same network/subnet,
just separate servers. They don't want IT to manage several instances
of the same application on different servers, in this case Apache.

Thanks for any input!

- Carlos

From dnewman at networktest.com  Thu May 14 07:06:06 2009
From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 22:06:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] shunting after "decoding Unicode is not supported"
Message-ID: <4A0BA6BE.20007@networktest.com>

Mailman 2.1.12

Had a server crash. Built a new server, compiled MM 2.1.12 from source
and restored the lists, data, and archives from a backup.

Messages are going to the list but most aren't getting archived, with
errors like the one pasted below.

This has come up before:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-May/057100.html

I'm wary about screwing up the digests, so two questions:

1. Is there any way of clearing this error without renaming/moving the
digest?

2. If I do move the digest, will the messages that didn't get archived
then make it into the archive? Or will archiving work only for those
messages from that point forward?

Many thanks

dn




May 13 21:37:17 2009 (16245) Uncaught runner exception: decoding Unicode
is not
supported
May 13 21:37:17 2009 (16245) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in
_dispose
    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in
ArchiveMa
il
    h.processUnixMailbox(f)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 578, in
processU
nixMailbox
    a = self._makeArticle(m, self.sequence)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 684, in
_makeArt
icle
    mlist=self.maillist)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 308, in
__init__
    charset = message.get_content_charset(cset_out)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/email/Message.py", line 800, in
get_content_cha
rset
    charset = unicode(charset, 'us-ascii').encode('us-ascii')
TypeError: decoding Unicode is not supported

May 13 21:37:17 2009 (16245) SHUNTING:
1242275836.745697+2fd3997d48268b501123514


From dnewman at networktest.com  Fri May 15 05:58:41 2009
From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 20:58:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] shunting after "decoding Unicode is not
	supported"
In-Reply-To: <4A0BA6BE.20007@networktest.com>
References: <4A0BA6BE.20007@networktest.com>
Message-ID: <4A0CE871.1070401@networktest.com>

On 5/13/09 10:06 PM, David Newman wrote:
> Mailman 2.1.12
> 
> Had a server crash. Built a new server, compiled MM 2.1.12 from source
> and restored the lists, data, and archives from a backup.
> 
> Messages are going to the list but most aren't getting archived, with
> errors like the one pasted below.
> 
> This has come up before:
> 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-May/057100.html
> 
> I'm wary about screwing up the digests, so two questions:
> 
> 1. Is there any way of clearing this error without renaming/moving the
> digest?
> 
> 2. If I do move the digest, will the messages that didn't get archived
> then make it into the archive? Or will archiving work only for those
> messages from that point forward?
> 
> Many thanks

Sorry for replying to my own email, but I've noticed it's only HTML
email that produces this error, and doesn't go into the archives.

How to remedy (without clobbering the digest, that is)?

Thanks again

dn


> 
> dn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> May 13 21:37:17 2009 (16245) Uncaught runner exception: decoding Unicode
> is not
> supported
> May 13 21:37:17 2009 (16245) Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop
>     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile
>     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in
> _dispose
>     mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in
> ArchiveMa
> il
>     h.processUnixMailbox(f)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 578, in
> processU
> nixMailbox
>     a = self._makeArticle(m, self.sequence)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 684, in
> _makeArt
> icle
>     mlist=self.maillist)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 308, in
> __init__
>     charset = message.get_content_charset(cset_out)
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/email/Message.py", line 800, in
> get_content_cha
> rset
>     charset = unicode(charset, 'us-ascii').encode('us-ascii')
> TypeError: decoding Unicode is not supported
> 
> May 13 21:37:17 2009 (16245) SHUNTING:
> 1242275836.745697+2fd3997d48268b501123514
> 
> 


From fzanluca at hotmail.com  Thu May 14 01:59:11 2009
From: fzanluca at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Filipe_Zanluca_Dar=F3s?=)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 23:59:11 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list + message filter problem
In-Reply-To: 
References: <23461467.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
Message-ID: 


The address test at test.com is not a list. It is just a pop3 email account.

They do appear in the archives at list at test.com!

> Does 'list at test.com' have any eligible recipients (non-digest members
> with delivery enabled and in some cases not an explicit addressee and
> not the poster).

Did not understand what you mean by that. But since I did not add any addresses I am guessing no.

> What's in Mailman's vette log.

I have no access to shell in server. I was not the one who installed Mailman. The administrator of that shell account does not know how to solve my problem so I looked for help myself.


Thank you!

Filipe.

> Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 08:40:28 -0700
> From: mark at msapiro.net
> To: fzanluca at hotmail.com; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users]  Mailing list + message filter problem
> 
> Filipe Daros wrote:
> >
> >For example: My main e-mail address is test at test.com and I created a list:
> >list at test.com. I also created a message filter that forwards any e-mail sent
> >to test at test.com and has the word "hello" on it's subject to the list
> >list at test.com. 
> >
> >I tried changing generic_nonmember_action to accept but it still would hold
> >the emails sent with that subject and the messages get held with the reason:
> >"Message has implicit destination".
> >
> >So again I tried changing require_explicit_destination to NO. But now when I
> >send emails with that specific word on it's subject the e-mails seem to
> >disappear.
> 
> 
> If I understand correctly, the problem is with the 'list at test.com' list
> and the 'test at test.com' list works as expected.
> 
> Also, if I understand, you have a process external to Mailman the sees
> a post to 'test at test.com' with 'hello' in the subject and forwards it
> to 'list at test.com', and these posts were being held for "implicit
> destination" by the 'list at test.com' list. You then set
> require_explicit_destination to NO on 'list at test.com' which is one way
> to avoid the "implicit destination" hold, and now the posts forwarded
> to 'list at test.com' just "disappear".
> 
> Do they appear in the archives of 'list at test.com'?
> 
> Does 'list at test.com' have any eligible recipients (non-digest members
> with delivery enabled and in some cases not an explicit addressee and
> not the poster).
> 
> What's in Mailman's vette log.
> 
> See items 7, 8 and 9 in the FAQ at  for
> other possibilities.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 

_________________________________________________________________
Conhe?a os novos produtos Windows Live! Clique aqui.
http://www.windowslive.com.br

From fzanluca at hotmail.com  Thu May 14 02:58:50 2009
From: fzanluca at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Filipe_Zanluca_Dar=F3s?=)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 00:58:50 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list + message filter problem
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 


I had set myself as a member. I thought you meant otherwise.

I receive mails sent directly to the list, but not when messages get redirected by the filter.


> Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 17:33:51 -0700
> From: mark at msapiro.net
> To: fzanluca at hotmail.com; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users]  Mailing list + message filter problem
> 
> Filipe Zanluca Dar?s wrote:
> >
> >The address test at test.com is not a list. It is just a pop3 email account.
> >
> >They do appear in the archives at list at test.com!
> >
> >> Does 'list at test.com' have any eligible recipients (non-digest members
> >> with delivery enabled and in some cases not an explicit addressee and
> >> not the poster).
> >
> >Did not understand what you mean by that. But since I did not add any addresses I am guessing no.
> 
> 
> So there is no problem. The post was delivered to the list, accepted,
> archived and resent to all zero of the list members. Once there are
> some members, they will get it too.
> 
> If your confusion is that you think the list owner should have received
> something, that is an incorrect thought. The list owner is not a list
> member unless explicitly added as a member and therefore does not
> receive copies of normal posts just by being the owner.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 

_________________________________________________________________
Emoticons e Winks super diferentes para o Messenger. Baixe agora, ? gr?tis!
http://specials.br.msn.com/ilovemessenger/pacotes.aspx

From kremels at kreme.com  Thu May 14 20:12:44 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 12:12:44 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailman install
Message-ID: <45170EED-8227-4767-806D-D0FB669C6FB0@kreme.com>

I have had mailman running for many years now, and have updated it  
semi regularly over the years (currently 2.1.9).

A few days ago, I tried to post a message to a list I host and got:

Command died with
    status 4: "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post listname". Command  
output:
    No such file or directory

I went in and tried to look at the install, but everything appeared to  
be fine. So I tried to reinstall via portupgrade mailman.

After the upgrade completed, I got this error:

  Command died with
    status 2: "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post gfamily". Command  
output:
    Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to  
be
    executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed  
the mail
    script as group "nobody".

This is odd since my current install of mailman has permissions like  
this:


So I tried
$ export MM_USERNAME=nobody
$ export MM_GROUPNAME=nobody
$ export MM_USERID=65534

and made sure that in pkgtools.conf I had

'mail/mailman' => 'WITH_MAIL_GID=nobody',

and ran the port install again, only to get the same error. At each  
step I ran bin/check_perms and nothing was wrong.

Finally I just went into my backups and restored /usr/local/mailman  
with a cp -rp and now everything works (except ports thinks I have  
version 2.1.11)

So, for future reference, what SHOULD I have done?  And does anyone  
know how to tell ports I have 2.1.9 instead of 2.1.11?

-- 
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons for you are crunchy and
	taste good with ketchup


From kremels at kreme.com  Thu May 14 20:14:41 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 12:14:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailman install
Message-ID: <9CC76263-3EB1-4ABF-BE4B-0294A167BBF2@kreme.com>

[oops, left something out]

This is odd since my current install of mailman has permissions like  
this:

  8 -rwxr-xr-x  1 root    mailman   7622 Jun  8  2007 add_members
  6 -rwxr-xr-x  1 root    mailman   6008 Jun  8  2007 arch
  4 -rwxr-xr-x  1 root    mailman   2569 Jun  8  2007 b4b5-archfix

mailman was compiled on my system with GID mailman, but trying to  
setup 2.1.11 with the same build options fails, so assuming I upgrade  
at some point, how do I get this to work?

-- 
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons for you are crunchy and
	taste good with ketchup


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon May 18 02:19:53 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 19:19:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installation On Separate Server Plausible?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A10A9A9.5030604@shub-internet.org>

on 5/14/09 8:45 PM, Carlos Williams said:

> I am being told that my Postfix email server can no longer run Apache
> on the same physical server. The management has decided for specific
> reasons that Apache can only be installed and configured on the web
> server, not the mail server. The mail server will simply run Postfix /
> Dovecot.

You can certainly configure Mailman to use your new mail-only server as 
the external mail interface to the world, but I think you're going to 
need to have some sort of mail server running on the web server machine, 
even if that mail server is not otherwise externally accessible.  The 
reason is because of the way that messages are handed off to Mailman -- 
via e-mail.

The only other solution I can see is to have your mail server and web 
server both mount and share the same file storage, so that the mail 
server can provide the message input to Mailman (as well as the 
archiving, mailing the messages back out to the subscribers, etc...), 
and the web server can provide the WebUI for interacting with Mailman.


However, neither of these is an easy configuration to set up or 
maintain, at least not relative to the typical method.  I think we've 
got some pointers on doing this kind of thing in the FAQ and in the 
archives of this list, but there may be some details which are not clear 
to you and will need further clarification.

> This will force me to move web mail (RoundCube) & MailMan to my web
> server! My question is can I have MailMan function from scratch (no
> data needs to be migrated to the new install) from my web server and
> work?

You still need access to the data.  You can't just install a web server 
on another machine and expect it to magically have all the data.  And 
you still need to provide some way to update that data, and you still 
need some way to provide e-mail input and output to that system.

There are a few ways to solve these issues, but each has a different set 
of trade-offs, etc....

-- 
Brad Knowles
        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Mon May 18 02:43:36 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 01:43:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installation On Separate Server Plausible?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20090518004336.GM1427@amyl.org.uk>

On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 09:45:33PM -0400, Carlos Williams wrote:
> I am being told that my Postfix email server can no longer run Apache
> on the same physical server. The management has decided for specific
> reasons that Apache can only be installed and configured on the web
> server, not the mail server. The mail server will simply run Postfix /
> Dovecot.

*tongue in cheek* use another httpd/web-server?

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 18 02:49:03 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 17:49:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] shunting after "decoding Unicode is
	notsupported"
In-Reply-To: <4A0CE871.1070401@networktest.com>
Message-ID: 

David Newman wrote:

>On 5/13/09 10:06 PM, David Newman wrote:
>> Mailman 2.1.12
>> 
>> Had a server crash. Built a new server, compiled MM 2.1.12 from source
>> and restored the lists, data, and archives from a backup.
>> 
>> Messages are going to the list but most aren't getting archived, with
>> errors like the one pasted below.
>> 
>> This has come up before:
>> 
>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-May/057100.html
>> 
>> I'm wary about screwing up the digests, so two questions:


The above issue is the same exception, but it's a totally different
cause.


>> 1. Is there any way of clearing this error without renaming/moving the
>> digest?
>> 
>> 2. If I do move the digest, will the messages that didn't get archived
>> then make it into the archive? Or will archiving work only for those
>> messages from that point forward?


This one has to be fixed in a different way. It has nothing to do with
digests.


>Sorry for replying to my own email, but I've noticed it's only HTML
>email that produces this error, and doesn't go into the archives.
>
>How to remedy (without clobbering the digest, that is)?


This is a known incompatibility between Mailman 2.1.12 and the Python
email 3.0.2 package. email 3.0.2 is part of Python 2.4.4 through
2.4.6, and these are the only Python versions that have this problem
with Mailman 2.1.12.

There is a long thread about this in the bug report at
 which also contains a
patch to (in your case) /usr/local/lib/python2.4/email/Charset.py.

There is also an Update - March 2009: about this near the bottom of the
FAQ at  which contains a direct link to
the Charset.py patch.

You could upgrade Python to 2.5.x or 2.6.x to fix this, but the easiest
fix is to apply the patch to /usr/local/lib/python2.4/email/Charset.py
and restart Mailman. Then you can run bin/unshunt to process the
shunted messages to the archive.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 18 02:58:55 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 17:58:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installation On Separate Server Plausible?
In-Reply-To: <4A10A9A9.5030604@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: 

Brad Knowles wrote:

>on 5/14/09 8:45 PM, Carlos Williams said:
>
>> I am being told that my Postfix email server can no longer run Apache
>> on the same physical server. The management has decided for specific
>> reasons that Apache can only be installed and configured on the web
>> server, not the mail server. The mail server will simply run Postfix /
>> Dovecot.
>
>You can certainly configure Mailman to use your new mail-only server as 
>the external mail interface to the world, but I think you're going to 
>need to have some sort of mail server running on the web server machine, 
>even if that mail server is not otherwise externally accessible.  The 
>reason is because of the way that messages are handed off to Mailman -- 
>via e-mail.


This is the best solution. I.e., run Postfix (or another MTA) on the
new Mailman/webserver and use aliases or whatever on the primary MX to
relay list mail to Mailman.

You can also do this step by having list mail delivered to mailboxes on
the primary MX and then moving the mail via pop3/imap from the
mailboxes to Mailman with fetchmail or similar, although that may be
more difficult to configure.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dnewman at networktest.com  Mon May 18 03:03:59 2009
From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman)
Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 18:03:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] shunting after "decoding Unicode is
	notsupported"
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A10B3FF.7000004@networktest.com>

On 5/17/09 5:49 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> David Newman wrote:
> 
>> On 5/13/09 10:06 PM, David Newman wrote:
>>> Mailman 2.1.12
>>>
>>> Had a server crash. Built a new server, compiled MM 2.1.12 from source
>>> and restored the lists, data, and archives from a backup.
>>>
>>> Messages are going to the list but most aren't getting archived, with
>>> errors like the one pasted below.
>>>
>>> This has come up before:
>>>
>>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-May/057100.html
>>>
>>> I'm wary about screwing up the digests, so two questions:
> 
> 
> The above issue is the same exception, but it's a totally different
> cause.
> 
> 
>>> 1. Is there any way of clearing this error without renaming/moving the
>>> digest?
>>>
>>> 2. If I do move the digest, will the messages that didn't get archived
>>> then make it into the archive? Or will archiving work only for those
>>> messages from that point forward?
> 
> 
> This one has to be fixed in a different way. It has nothing to do with
> digests.
> 
> 
>> Sorry for replying to my own email, but I've noticed it's only HTML
>> email that produces this error, and doesn't go into the archives.
>>
>> How to remedy (without clobbering the digest, that is)?
> 
> 
> This is a known incompatibility between Mailman 2.1.12 and the Python
> email 3.0.2 package. email 3.0.2 is part of Python 2.4.4 through
> 2.4.6, and these are the only Python versions that have this problem
> with Mailman 2.1.12.
> 
> There is a long thread about this in the bug report at
>  which also contains a
> patch to (in your case) /usr/local/lib/python2.4/email/Charset.py.
> 
> There is also an Update - March 2009: about this near the bottom of the
> FAQ at  which contains a direct link to
> the Charset.py patch.
> 
> You could upgrade Python to 2.5.x or 2.6.x to fix this, but the easiest
> fix is to apply the patch to /usr/local/lib/python2.4/email/Charset.py
> and restart Mailman. Then you can run bin/unshunt to process the
> shunted messages to the archive.

Thanks, Mark. Upgrading Python and running unshunt (which previously I
didn't know about) appears to have made this archive whole. Thanks again.

dn



> 


From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Mon May 18 03:15:32 2009
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 01:15:32 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] emails are not being sent
Message-ID: 


Hi fellas ..

I have a list of 15000 subscribers .. and everything was working fine till like 2 weeks ago, when sending to the list and checking the mail statistics.. I find out that the outgoing emails are only 9000!! I used to check the logs and all the 15000 were being sent successfully .. but now it's 9000 only and people has been complaining that they are not recieving my messages..

the list has no members with "no mail" option .. and no one has been automatically removed due to the bounce options..

what could be the problem?

Thanks ..

_________________________________________________________________
Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites. 
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/events.aspx

From admin2 at enabled.com  Mon May 18 03:11:54 2009
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 18:11:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman mali list already created
Message-ID: <4A10B5DA.7030705@enabled.com>



Hi there,

I am migrating my old mailman system.   mailman thinks the mailman mail 
list is not created although it is as identified correctly by the 
newlist program.  What is going on here?

root at enabled:/usr/local/mailman# /etc/init.d/mailman start
  * Site list for mailman (usually named mailman) missing.
  * Please create it; until then, mailman will refuse to start.
root at enabled:/usr/local/mailman# bin/newlist mailman
Create a new, unpopulated mailing list.

Usage: bin/newlist [options] [listname [listadmin-addr [admin-password]]]

Options:

     -l language
     --language=language
         Make the list's preferred language `language', which must be a two
         letter language code.

     -u urlhost
     --urlhost=urlhost
         Gives the list's web interface host name.

     -e emailhost
     --emailhost=emailhost
         Gives the list's email domain name.

     -q/--quiet
         Normally the administrator is notified by email (after a 
prompt) that
         their list has been created.  This option suppresses the prompt and
         notification.

     -h/--help
         Print this help text and exit.

You can specify as many of the arguments as you want on the command line:
you will be prompted for the missing ones.

Every Mailman list has two parameters which define the default host name for
outgoing email, and the default URL for all web interfaces.  When you
configured Mailman, certain defaults were calculated, but if you are running
multiple virtual Mailman sites, then the defaults may not be appropriate for
the list you are creating.

You also specify the domain to create your new list in by typing the command
like so:

     newlist --urlhost=www.mydom.ain mylist

where `www.mydom.ain' should be the base hostname for the URL to this 
virtual
hosts's lists.  E.g. with this setting people will view the general list
overviews at http://www.mydom.ain/mailman/listinfo.  Also, www.mydom.ain
should be a key in the VIRTUAL_HOSTS mapping in mm_cfg.py/Defaults.py if
the email hostname to be automatically determined.

If you want the email hostname to be different from the one looked up by the
VIRTUAL_HOSTS or if urlhost is not registered in VIRTUAL_HOSTS, you can 
specify
`emailhost' like so:

     newlist --urlhost=www.mydom.ain --emailhost=mydom.ain mylist

where `mydom.ain' is the mail domain name. If you don't specify 
emailhost but
urlhost is not in the virtual host list, then mm_cfg.DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST will
be used for the email interface.

For backward compatibility, you can also specify the domain to create your
new list in by spelling the listname like so:

     mylist at www.mydom.ain

where www.mydom.ain is used for `urlhost' but it will also be used for
`emailhost' if it is not found in the virtual host table. Note that
'--urlhost' and '--emailhost' have precedence to this notation.

If you spell the list name as just `mylist', then the email hostname will be
taken from DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and the url will be taken from DEFAULT_URL (as
defined in your Defaults.py file or overridden by settings in mm_cfg.py).

Note that listnames are forced to lowercase.

List already exists: mailman


From james at thereidsonline.com  Mon May 18 03:02:57 2009
From: james at thereidsonline.com (James Reid)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 11:02:57 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installation On Separate Server Plausible?
In-Reply-To: <4A10A9A9.5030604@shub-internet.org>
References: 
	<4A10A9A9.5030604@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <63814.203.35.82.133.1242608577.squirrel@secure.reidware.net>

Hi Brad,

Is this something that would become *easier* if it were done using the
MYSQL plugin that is floating around?

Thanks!
James.

> on 5/14/09 8:45 PM, Carlos Williams said:
>
>> I am being told that my Postfix email server can no longer run Apache
>> on the same physical server. The management has decided for specific
>> reasons that Apache can only be installed and configured on the web
>> server, not the mail server. The mail server will simply run Postfix /
>> Dovecot.
>
> You can certainly configure Mailman to use your new mail-only server as
> the external mail interface to the world, but I think you're going to
> need to have some sort of mail server running on the web server machine,
> even if that mail server is not otherwise externally accessible.  The
> reason is because of the way that messages are handed off to Mailman --
> via e-mail.
>
> The only other solution I can see is to have your mail server and web
> server both mount and share the same file storage, so that the mail
> server can provide the message input to Mailman (as well as the
> archiving, mailing the messages back out to the subscribers, etc...),
> and the web server can provide the WebUI for interacting with Mailman.
>
>
> However, neither of these is an easy configuration to set up or
> maintain, at least not relative to the typical method.  I think we've
> got some pointers on doing this kind of thing in the FAQ and in the
> archives of this list, but there may be some details which are not clear
> to you and will need further clarification.
>
>> This will force me to move web mail (RoundCube) & MailMan to my web
>> server! My question is can I have MailMan function from scratch (no
>> data needs to be migrated to the new install) from my web server and
>> work?
>
> You still need access to the data.  You can't just install a web server
> on another machine and expect it to magically have all the data.  And
> you still need to provide some way to update that data, and you still
> need some way to provide e-mail input and output to that system.
>
> There are a few ways to solve these issues, but each has a different set
> of trade-offs, etc....
>
> --
> Brad Knowles
>         If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
> LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
>     http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/james%40thereidsonline.com
>
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>



From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 18 03:29:20 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 18:29:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailman install
In-Reply-To: <45170EED-8227-4767-806D-D0FB669C6FB0@kreme.com>
Message-ID: 

LuKreme wrote:
>
>A few days ago, I tried to post a message to a list I host and got:
>
>Command died with
>    status 4: "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post listname". Command  
>output:
>    No such file or directory


status 4 means the execve that runs python returned. The "no such file
or directory" can refer to either /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman or
to the path to Python that the mail wrapper is using.


>I went in and tried to look at the install, but everything appeared to  
>be fine. So I tried to reinstall via portupgrade mailman.
>
>After the upgrade completed, I got this error:
>
>  Command died with
>    status 2: "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post gfamily". Command  
>output:
>    Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to  
>be
>    executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed  
>the mail
>    script as group "nobody".
>
>This is odd since my current install of mailman has permissions like  
>this:


See the FAQ at  to understand more about
this error.


>So I tried
>$ export MM_USERNAME=nobody
>$ export MM_GROUPNAME=nobody
>$ export MM_USERID=65534
>
>and made sure that in pkgtools.conf I had
>
>'mail/mailman' => 'WITH_MAIL_GID=nobody',
>
>and ran the port install again, only to get the same error. At each  
>step I ran bin/check_perms and nothing was wrong.


I can't help you much with all this package specific stuff. You might
be better off asking for help using resources specific to the package
you are installing.

My guess is that the 'WITH_MAIL_GID=nobody' change should have fixed
the group mismatch problem, particularly if the prior setting was
'WITH_MAIL_GID=mailman'. Possibly the environment changes messed this
up somehow.


>Finally I just went into my backups and restored /usr/local/mailman  
>with a cp -rp and now everything works (except ports thinks I have  
>version 2.1.11)
>
>So, for future reference, what SHOULD I have done?  And does anyone  
>know how to tell ports I have 2.1.9 instead of 2.1.11?


If you have a file named last_mailman_version in Mailman's data/
directory, it probably has contents

0x2010bf0

If so, change the contents to

0x20109f0

I don't know what you SHOULD have done to fix the original problem,
since I don't know what the underlying cause was.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 18 04:10:54 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 19:10:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman mali list already created
In-Reply-To: <4A10B5DA.7030705@enabled.com>
Message-ID: 

Noah wrote:
>
>I am migrating my old mailman system.   mailman thinks the mailman mail 
>list is not created although it is as identified correctly by the 
>newlist program.  What is going on here?


What is/are the settings for MAILMAN_SITE_LIST in Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py?

The Defaults.py setting should be

MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'

Is it changed or overridden in mm_cfg.py?

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 18 04:20:10 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 19:20:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] emails are not being sent
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Khalil Abbas wrote:
>
>I have a list of 15000 subscribers .. and everything was working fine till like 2 weeks ago, when sending to the list and checking the mail statistics.. I find out that the outgoing emails are only 9000!! I used to check the logs and all the 15000 were being sent successfully .. but now it's 9000 only and people has been complaining that they are not recieving my messages..


Assuming that

bin/list_members -n LISTNAME | wc -l

reports zero, and

bin/list_members -d LISTNAME | wc -l

reports zero, and

bin/list_members -r LISTNAME | wc -l

reports 15,000

and Mailman's smtp log reports something like

May 17 13:00:37 2009 (7605)  smtp to LISTNAME for 9000
recips, completed in xx.xxx seconds

check Mailman's smtp-failure log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 18 04:22:41 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 19:22:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installation On Separate Server Plausible?
In-Reply-To: <63814.203.35.82.133.1242608577.squirrel@secure.reidware.net>
Message-ID: 

James Reid wrote:
>
>Is this something that would become *easier* if it were done using the
>MYSQL plugin that is floating around?


If by "MYSQL plugin", you mean a MySQL Member Adaptor, then no. That
has only to do with list membership. It has nothing to do with
delivery of mail to Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon May 18 05:18:57 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 12:18:57 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installation On Separate Server Plausible?
In-Reply-To: <4A10A9A9.5030604@shub-internet.org>
References: 
	<4A10A9A9.5030604@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <87fxf3droe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > You can certainly configure Mailman to use your new mail-only server as 
 > the external mail interface to the world, but I think you're going to 
 > need to have some sort of mail server running on the web server machine, 
 > 
 > The only other solution I can see is to have your mail server and web 
 > server both mount and share the same file storage,
 > 
 > However, neither of these is an easy configuration to set up or 
 > maintain, at least not relative to the typical method.

Setting up a webhost MTA to talk only to the mail server host is much
easier than setting up a networked filesystem, and far more robust in
my experience.  Even if you already have networked file systems in
place, the requirements placed by mail servers, webservers, and local
users on the networked file system are rather different, and unless
you're already managing all of those on the networked file system,
trying to tune and maintain the networked file system is going to cost
way more in admin time and system down time than the internal-only MTA
on the webhost.  (But listen to Brad and Mark, not me, if they say
something different.)


From kremels at kreme.com  Mon May 18 07:09:03 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 23:09:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailman install
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <45AB8531-F150-4F63-B80E-337340AC1CBB@kreme.com>

On 17-May-2009, at 19:29, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>   status 4: "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post listname". Command
>> output:
>>   No such file or directory
>
> status 4 means the execve that runs python returned. The "no such file
> or directory" can refer to either /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman or
> to the path to Python that the mail wrapper is using.

Very odd, the path was there, the executable was there, permissions  
where right, and python appeared to be running. I certainly didn't do  
anything to change python's settings either before or after.

> See the FAQ at  to understand more about
> this error.

My confusion about the error is that mailman has ALWAYS been setu for  
uid/gid mailman, and has been for years and years.

> If you have a file named last_mailman_version in Mailman's data/
> directory, it probably has contents
>
> 0x2010bf0
>
> If so, change the contents to
>
> 0x20109f0

That file has the right info, it's just the ports DB that is off since  
I replaced the install from backups 'behind its back'.

-- 
What are you, Ghouls? There are no dead students here. This week.


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 18 16:35:55 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 07:35:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailman install
In-Reply-To: <45AB8531-F150-4F63-B80E-337340AC1CBB@kreme.com>
Message-ID: 

LuKreme wrote:

>On 17-May-2009, at 19:29, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> See the FAQ at  to understand more about
>> this error.
>
>My confusion about the error is that mailman has ALWAYS been setu for  
>uid/gid mailman, and has been for years and years.


Yes, and the mail/mailman wrapper is group mailman and SETGID so that
the pipe invoked by the MTA actually runs as effective group mailman
and has appropriate access. However, the MTA invokes the pipe as some
user:group determined by the MTA which may or may not be mailman.

In order to provide some security against just anyone with shell access
being able to run the wrapper from the command line, upon invocation
the wrapper checks the original group with which the MTA invoked the
wrapper, and if it is not the group the wrapper expects, the wrapper
issues the group mismatch error. This is all explained in more detail
in the FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kremels at kreme.com  Mon May 18 16:56:48 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 08:56:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailman install
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 18-May-2009, at 08:35, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> In order to provide some security against just anyone with shell  
> access
> being able to run the wrapper from the command line, upon invocation
> the wrapper checks the original group with which the MTA invoked the
> wrapper, and if it is not the group the wrapper expects, the wrapper
> issues the group mismatch error. This is all explained in more detail
> in the FAQ.

Yes, but the MTA did not change. Recompiling mailman via ports with  
the same options it had been compiled with before failed  
(WITH_MAIL_GID=mailman). Restoring from backup (which files are gid  
mailman) worked. Same permissions on the mailman executable:

14 -rwxr-sr-x  1 root  mailman  13661 Jun  8  2007 mail/mailman


-- 
There is a road, no simple highway, between the dawn
	and the dark of night


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 18 18:09:54 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 09:09:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailman install
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

LuKreme wrote:
>
>Yes, but the MTA did not change. Recompiling mailman via ports with  
>the same options it had been compiled with before failed  
>(WITH_MAIL_GID=mailman). Restoring from backup (which files are gid  
>mailman) worked. Same permissions on the mailman executable:


And the group mismatch error you reported at the start of this thread
said

  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group
  "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script
  as group "nobody".

Indicating that yes, the wrapper was compiled WITH_MAIL_GID=mailman,
but it should have been compiled WITH_MAIL_GID=nobody.

This has nothing to do with the gid of the files. It has to do only
with the gid with which the MTA invokes the wrapper.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dnewman at networktest.com  Mon May 18 23:27:18 2009
From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 14:27:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] phantom subscription requests
Message-ID: <4A11D2B6.5020405@networktest.com>

Mailman 2.1.12 on OpenBSD 4.5

Don't know if this is a coincidence, but ever since rebuilding a Mailman
server that crashed last week and restoring the lists from archives, the
site admin address has received a few dozen bogus subscription requests
to lists on that server.

This is odd, in that I'm site admin and have not sent any such requests.
>From the little bit of spot checking I've done, the requests appear to
come mostly from machines in RIPE space in Europe.

Is anyone else seeing this? What measures, if any, can a site admin take
to block bogus subscription requests?

thanks

dn



From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 19 00:04:52 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 15:04:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] phantom subscription requests
In-Reply-To: <4A11D2B6.5020405@networktest.com>
Message-ID: 

David Newman wrote:
>
>Don't know if this is a coincidence, but ever since rebuilding a Mailman
>server that crashed last week and restoring the lists from archives, the
>site admin address has received a few dozen bogus subscription requests
>to lists on that server.


These can result from spam to the LIST-subscribe and/or LIST-join
addresses. Check your MTA logs to see if that's where the requests are
coming from.


>This is odd, in that I'm site admin and have not sent any such requests.
>>From the little bit of spot checking I've done, the requests appear to
>come mostly from machines in RIPE space in Europe.
>
>Is anyone else seeing this? What measures, if any, can a site admin take
>to block bogus subscription requests?


Short of disabling the -subscribe and -join addresses, you can't stop
the requests, but you can use subscribe_policy to mitigate the impact.
If it is spam, requests won't be confirmed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From admin2 at enabled.com  Tue May 19 00:41:33 2009
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 15:41:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman mali list already created
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A11E41D.4000601@enabled.com>

Hi Mark,

I have the MAILMAN_SITE_LIST only defined in the Defaults.py program so 
I am unclear what is the problem.  any other clues?


root at enabled:/usr/local/mailman/Mailman# grep MAILMAN_SITE_LIST Defaults.py
MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'
root at enabled:/usr/local/mailman/Mailman# grep MAILMAN_SITE_LIST mm_cfg.py
root at enabled:/usr/local/mailman/Mailman#


Cheers,

Noah



Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Noah wrote:
>> I am migrating my old mailman system.   mailman thinks the mailman mail 
>> list is not created although it is as identified correctly by the 
>> newlist program.  What is going on here?
> 
> 
> What is/are the settings for MAILMAN_SITE_LIST in Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py?
> 
> The Defaults.py setting should be
> 
> MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'
> 
> Is it changed or overridden in mm_cfg.py?
> 


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 19 01:30:01 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 16:30:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman mali list already created
In-Reply-To: <4A11E41D.4000601@enabled.com>
Message-ID: 

Noah wrote:
>
>I have the MAILMAN_SITE_LIST only defined in the Defaults.py program so 
>I am unclear what is the problem.  any other clues?
>
>
>root at enabled:/usr/local/mailman/Mailman# grep MAILMAN_SITE_LIST Defaults.py
>MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'
>root at enabled:/usr/local/mailman/Mailman# grep MAILMAN_SITE_LIST mm_cfg.py
>root at enabled:/usr/local/mailman/Mailman#


My best guess at this point is that the mailmanctl being run by
/etc/init.d/mailman is not the one in the /usr/local/mailman/bin/
directory. 

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From admin2 at enabled.com  Tue May 19 01:41:55 2009
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 16:41:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman mali list already created
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A11F243.2040603@enabled.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Noah wrote:
>> I have the MAILMAN_SITE_LIST only defined in the Defaults.py program so 
>> I am unclear what is the problem.  any other clues?
>>
>>
>> root at enabled:/usr/local/mailman/Mailman# grep MAILMAN_SITE_LIST Defaults.py
>> MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'
>> root at enabled:/usr/local/mailman/Mailman# grep MAILMAN_SITE_LIST mm_cfg.py
>> root at enabled:/usr/local/mailman/Mailman#
> 
> 
> My best guess at this point is that the mailmanctl being run by
> /etc/init.d/mailman is not the one in the /usr/local/mailman/bin/
> directory. 
> 
okay Mark that is the right answer - thanks!


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue May 19 07:25:56 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 00:25:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman mali list already created
In-Reply-To: <4A11E41D.4000601@enabled.com>
References: 
	<4A11E41D.4000601@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <4A1242E4.7030102@shub-internet.org>

on 5/18/09 5:41 PM, Noah said:

> I have the MAILMAN_SITE_LIST only defined in the Defaults.py program so 
> I am unclear what is the problem.  any other clues?

Anything you put in Defaults.py will get wiped out by the next upgrade. 
  If you want anything to survive into the next upgrade, you need to put 
that into mm_cfg.py instead.

-- 
Brad Knowles
        If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile:                 my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
    http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks

From manuel.vacelet at gmail.com  Tue May 19 16:11:12 2009
From: manuel.vacelet at gmail.com (Manuel Vacelet)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 16:11:12 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator request(s) waiting but ... nothing to
	moderate
Message-ID: 

Hello,

One of my list admin is asked to moderate pending emails on daily
basis with a mail like:
> The listname at lists.server.com mailing list has 2
> request(s) waiting for your consideration at:
>
>	https://lists.server.com/mailman/admindb/listname
>	
> Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of
> pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.

But when he goes on the given url there is nothing to validate just
the following message:
> Database Updated...
> listname Administrative Database
> There are no pending requests. Click here to reload this page.

but the day after, the very same message is still sent by mailman.

Any idea of what happens ?

Manuel

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 19 16:45:44 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 07:45:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator request(s) waiting but ... nothing
	tomoderate
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Manuel Vacelet wrote:
>
>One of my list admin is asked to moderate pending emails on daily
>basis with a mail like:
>> The listname at lists.server.com mailing list has 2
>> request(s) waiting for your consideration at:
>>
>>	https://lists.server.com/mailman/admindb/listname
>>	
>> Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of
>> pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.
>
>But when he goes on the given url there is nothing to validate just
>the following message:
>> Database Updated...
>> listname Administrative Database
>> There are no pending requests. Click here to reload this page.
>
>but the day after, the very same message is still sent by mailman.


The reason for this is ALWAYS that the notices are sent from a
different Mailman instance. There is some test, backup or incompletely
uninstalled Mailman installation that is sending these messages.

It may be on the same server as the production Mailman or another
backup, test or 'migration' server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 19 17:04:47 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 08:04:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator request(s) waiting but ...
	nothingtomoderate
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>The reason for this is ALWAYS that the notices are sent from a
>different Mailman instance.


I have just added FAQ  addressing this
question.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From manuel.vacelet at gmail.com  Wed May 20 13:18:09 2009
From: manuel.vacelet at gmail.com (Manuel Vacelet)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 13:18:09 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator request(s) waiting but ...
	nothingtomoderate
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>The reason for this is ALWAYS that the notices are sent from a
>>different Mailman instance.
>
>
> I have just added FAQ  addressing this
> question.

Hello Mark,

Thank you for the answer, it helped me to found that a (badly)
archived  version of the mailling list server was running on a server
where it wasn't supposed to be!

Thanks,
Apologize for the noise,
Manuel

From bcanty at apsa.org  Thu May 21 18:20:10 2009
From: bcanty at apsa.org (Brian Canty)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 12:20:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Invite Message
Message-ID: <6B3A7025196C1A49AABB0E6C80AD5AE2D2581B@apsaserv.APSA.local>

Does anyone know where I can locate the invite message?  I would like to
change it and can not find it.

Thanks.


Brian Canty
Manager Computer Information Services
American Psychoanalytic Association
212-752-0450 x17



From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 21 20:42:41 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 11:42:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Invite Message
In-Reply-To: <6B3A7025196C1A49AABB0E6C80AD5AE2D2581B@apsaserv.APSA.local>
Message-ID: 

Brian Canty wrote:

>Does anyone know where I can locate the invite message?  I would like to
>change it and can not find it.


See  the FAQ at . The template name is
invite.txt.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bob at scshop.com  Wed May 20 21:23:46 2009
From: bob at scshop.com (Acoshi)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 12:23:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Delayed Mailman Email Notifications
Message-ID: <23622231.post@talk.nabble.com>


I have created a mailman mailing list and enabled email notifications.

But when ever someone responses to the list it take more than 12 hours for
me to receive an email notification of their list response. Even though it
only takes a few moments to receive the notification the  "Pending
Moderation Request section" 

I am not sure if its mailman that causes the delay in email notifications,
my ISP's server, or my mail program.

FYI: I am using MacMail and Thunderbird for my mail programs.
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Delayed-Mailman-Email-Notifications-tp23622231p23622231.html
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From carloswill at gmail.com  Mon May 18 04:57:06 2009
From: carloswill at gmail.com (Carlos Williams)
Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 22:57:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install MailMan On Separate Server?
Message-ID: 

I asked this a week ago and did not hear anything back and I don't
know if the message reached the list so I am re-sending this.

Can someone please tell me if I am able to configure Mailman
installation on a web server that is separate from my Postfix (mail)
server?

From James.Millsap at chicagobooth.edu  Thu May 21 15:57:03 2009
From: James.Millsap at chicagobooth.edu (Millsap, James )
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 08:57:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unmoderated list member recieving msgs,
	but unable to post to the list
Message-ID: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D703C61D6D@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu>

Hello,

 

Have not been able to find anything on this.  Bit of a strange one.  I
have a list with about thirty members. One member has reported that he
cannot post to the list, ever though he was able to a few months ago.  I
investigated, and he was not moderated , nor were members disallowed
from posting.  I removed, and re-subscribed him, deleted and re-created
the list without effect.  He sends a msg, I can follow it in the MTA
being delivered to our mailman server.  On the mailman server there is
no log or acknowledgement of a msg being sent.  I then moderated the
list and his msg was waiting for moderation.  I released it to the list,
and it disappeared.  No delivery, no error.  Kind of stumped.  We have
hundreds of lists, with thousands of msgs being posted .  Not sure what
the deal is with this one list/user.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

James Millsap

Computing Services

University of Chicago Booth School of Business

5807 South Woodlawn Avenue 

Chicago, IL 60637

(773)702-7955

 


From ldonoso at cert.inteco.es  Tue May 19 13:19:52 2009
From: ldonoso at cert.inteco.es (Luis Antonio Donoso de Dio)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 13:19:52 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maintain bounce info but no deactivate user
Message-ID: <4A1295D8.7010809@cert.inteco.es>

Hello everybody,

I'd like to maintain the bounce stadistics about users but only for
information proposals, I don't want mailman automatically deactivate
users when the threshold is achieved.

I'd tried this solutions:
    - Set bounce_processing to No: no bounce information is saved in
logs neither database.
    - Set bounce_score_threshold to 0: users a deactivated with the
first bounced e-mail.

I'd set a big bounce_score_threshold, but Is there a smarter solution?

Thanks in advance,
Luis

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 21 21:22:16 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 12:22:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install MailMan On Separate Server?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Carlos Williams wrote:

>I asked this a week ago and did not hear anything back and I don't
>know if the message reached the list so I am re-sending this.


Check the archives.

There are seven messages in the thread you started at

or
.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hone+mailman at oak.cats.ohiou.edu  Thu May 21 21:19:30 2009
From: hone+mailman at oak.cats.ohiou.edu (hone+mailman at oak.cats.ohiou.edu)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 15:19:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delayed Mailman Email Notifications
In-Reply-To: <23622231.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <23622231.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: 

Acoshi,

It sounds like your subscription may be set to digest. If that is not the 
case, you may want to post the full message headers of the delivered 
message, or at least the Received: lines.

--On Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:23 PM -0700 Acoshi  wrote:

>
> I have created a mailman mailing list and enabled email notifications.
>
> But when ever someone responses to the list it take more than 12 hours for
> me to receive an email notification of their list response. Even though it
> only takes a few moments to receive the notification the  "Pending
> Moderation Request section"
>
> I am not sure if its mailman that causes the delay in email notifications,
> my ISP's server, or my mail program.
>
> FYI: I am using MacMail and Thunderbird for my mail programs.
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Delayed-Mailman-Email-Notifications-tp23622231p2362
> 2231.html Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/hone%2Bmailman%40oak
> .cats.ohiou.edu
>
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9



Don Hone

Ohio University

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 21 21:34:22 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 12:34:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unmoderated list member recieving msgs,
	but unable to post to the list
In-Reply-To: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D703C61D6D@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: 

Millsap, James wrote:
>
>Have not been able to find anything on this.  Bit of a strange one.  I
>have a list with about thirty members. One member has reported that he
>cannot post to the list, ever though he was able to a few months ago.  I
>investigated, and he was not moderated , nor were members disallowed
>from posting.  I removed, and re-subscribed him, deleted and re-created
>the list without effect.  He sends a msg, I can follow it in the MTA
>being delivered to our mailman server.  On the mailman server there is
>no log or acknowledgement of a msg being sent.  I then moderated the
>list and his msg was waiting for moderation.  I released it to the list,
>and it disappeared.  No delivery, no error.  Kind of stumped.  We have
>hundreds of lists, with thousands of msgs being posted .  Not sure what
>the deal is with this one list/user.


There is nothing left of his message after content filtering. If
filter_action is Reject, he will receive a notice, if Discard, Forward
or Preserve, there will be a 'discarded' entry in the vette log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lie at acer.edu.au  Fri May 22 01:51:57 2009
From: lie at acer.edu.au (Lie, Jafaruddin)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 09:51:57 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalised Distribution List?
Message-ID: 

Hi gang
We have a list that we use as a one-way (distribution) list.
I was asked whether it is possible to craft an email that has personalised
name sent out through one email. For example, a single email sent out to the
list, but mailman adds the name of the users from the list into the mail.

Not sure if it is possible, I don't think it is without a lot of mucking
around. I am happy to be proven wrong though :)

Jafaruddin Lie
System Engineer

Australian Council for Educational Research
19 Prospect Hill Road, Camberwell VIC 3124

t: 03 9277 5599
f: 03 9277 5500
m: 0401 736 979
e: lie at acer.edu.au

http://www.acer.edu.au
-- 



------------------------------------------------
Please consider the environment before you print


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 22 04:17:13 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 19:17:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalised Distribution List?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Lie, Jafaruddin wrote:

>We have a list that we use as a one-way (distribution) list.
>I was asked whether it is possible to craft an email that has personalised
>name sent out through one email. For example, a single email sent out to the
>list, but mailman adds the name of the users from the list into the mail.


If you set Non-digest options - personalize to Yes or Full, you can use
%(user_name)s as a replacement in msg_header and msg_footer.
Additionally, if personalize is Full, Mailman will put the recipient's
name and address in the To: header of the message.

If you don't see the personalize setting on Non-digest options, you
need to put

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes

in mm_cfg.py to enable it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri May 22 05:50:04 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 12:50:04 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unmoderated list member recieving msgs,
	but unable to post to the list
In-Reply-To: 
References: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D703C61D6D@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu>
	
Message-ID: <87bpplg5jn.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > There is nothing left of his message after content filtering.

Which at a guess means he was posting in HTML only, and your list is
set to filter HTML.  If that is the case, it is strongly recommended
that you teach your member to set his mail client to post in plain
text (with or without HTML).

I admit that part of this recommendation is due to a strong preference
for plain text formats on my part (in agreement with most of the
people who provide good advice on this list).  However, you should
also consider that from the point of view of the Mailman software HTML
mail is *very* complex (it is very hard to parse because many widely
used mail clients produce non-standard HTML, and even standard HTML
may contain many constructs that Mailman cannot possibly deal with
because they're private extensions), and therefore many features of
Mailman's processing become unavailable to you, or worse, silently
corrupt messages in transit.

In short, allowing HTML posts on your mailing lists is asking for
trouble.  I don't guarantee you'll get it, but lots of people allowing
HTML have received a visit from Mr. Murphy.


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Fri May 22 06:33:35 2009
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 23:33:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unmoderated list member recieving msgs,
	but unable to post to the list
In-Reply-To: <87bpplg5jn.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D703C61D6D@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu>
	
	<87bpplg5jn.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: 

On May 21, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> Mark Sapiro writes:
>
>> There is nothing left of his message after content filtering.
>
> Which at a guess means he was posting in HTML only, and your list is
> set to filter HTML.  If that is the case, it is strongly recommended
> that you teach your member to set his mail client to post in plain
> text (with or without HTML).

Depending on what is meant by "nothing", I've seen something like this  
happen another way.  Some clients will create a multipart/alternative  
message with a text/plain alternate and a text/html alternate.  But  
these clients will just put a note in the text/plain part that says  
roughly, "read the HTML part".

So with normal stripping of the text/html alternative all that comes  
through is a text/plain message that says "read the other part".  This  
naturally confuses list members, although I consider mailman's  
behavior absolutely correct.  The originating client is lying when it  
claims that it's produced a multipart/alternative message.

And naturally I concur with what I've snipped of your message,  
encouraging people to send only text/plain email.

Anyway, the OP should have the user cc the list administrator with  
their next posting attempt.  That way, you can examine the structure  
of the message that got submitted.

-j


-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri May 22 17:14:45 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 00:14:45 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unmoderated list member recieving msgs,
 but unable to post to the list
In-Reply-To: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D703C624EE@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu>
References: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D703C61D6D@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu>
	
	<87bpplg5jn.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	
	<07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D703C624EE@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <87skixdva2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Millsap, James  writes:

 > Text/html is allowed.

Hm.  One possiblity is that his messages are getting shunted because
they are ill-formed enough to cause Mailman to throw an error.  Look
in mailman/qfiles/shunt (you'll need shell access, and to actually
read the files and find out who sent them etc there you use
mailman/bin/show_qfiles).  The typical reason is illegal characters in
the headers, but there may be others.

Or maybe something else is not allowed.  The most certain way to find
out what happened is to look in "mailman/logs/vette", I guess.

You could also double-check the settings for filters.  Maybe his
address is getting caught by a new spam filter.  Maybe your list is
set to discard multipart/ messages for some unusual
 that your member's MUA has suddenly started to use.

You could temporarily set any filter that currently says "discard" to
reject, and then he should get a rejection notice that explains why
his post was rejected.

 > I even added his address to the list administrators.

That's irrelevant.  As far as list posting goes, administrators get no
special treatment.

 > The only logging I get is when I set his moderation bit.

Well, it's getting to Mailman, at least you've confirmed that.

Do the moderated and approved messages get posted to the list?

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 22 17:50:20 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 08:50:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unmoderated list member recieving msgs,
	but unable to post to the list
In-Reply-To: <87skixdva2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: 

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Millsap, James  writes:
>
> > The only logging I get is when I set his moderation bit.
>
>Well, it's getting to Mailman, at least you've confirmed that.
>
>Do the moderated and approved messages get posted to the list?


He said not in the OP. Note that once the moderated post is approved,
there shouldn't be anything preventing it's delivery that wouldn't
write either a vette or error log entry.

What Mailman version is this? Is it an unmodified installation?

Does the post get archived (I would assume not, but I have to ask)?

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From acornhp at yahoo.com  Thu May 21 23:59:48 2009
From: acornhp at yahoo.com (Aaron Marcavitch)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 14:59:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! "Stuck Messages"
Message-ID: <349068.9080.qm@web36806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Hi folks,

Brand new here.  I have reviewed the troubleshooting and I think I am just not sophisticated to understand the answers.  

We have a list of about 600.  I have been working hard to delete our bouncing members.  However, when I do a BIG delete session, no messages show up in the "approval" section.  I have the list on emergency moderation because we were having problems adjusting to our switch over from our old system.  When I didn't delete emails for a few days it worked fine.  Now its going on 12 days since our last email showed up for my approval.

I know I am doing something wrong - I just can't figure out what....

I did try to find this answer and I kept on running up on VERP and MTA - but I have NO idea what that means.  I am only using the web interface for approval, so I am very unsophisticated about how this works....

Thanks in advance for advice.
Aaron

--------
http://www.marcavitch.com


      

From James.Millsap at chicagobooth.edu  Fri May 22 14:59:14 2009
From: James.Millsap at chicagobooth.edu (Millsap, James )
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 07:59:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unmoderated list member recieving msgs,
 but unable to post to the list
In-Reply-To: 
References: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D703C61D6D@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu>
	
	<87bpplg5jn.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	
Message-ID: <07A371D457B501478C1DB3C3DE8372D703C624EE@GSBHEX2V.gsb.uchicago.edu>

Text/html is allowed.  I even added his address to the list
administrators.  The only logging I get is when I set his moderation
bit.  

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+james.millsap=chicagobooth.edu at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+james.millsap=chicagobooth.edu at python.org]
On Behalf Of Jeffrey Goldberg
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 11:34 PM
To: Stephen J. Turnbull
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Unmoderated list member recieving msgs,but
unable to post to the list

On May 21, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> Mark Sapiro writes:
>
>> There is nothing left of his message after content filtering.
>
> Which at a guess means he was posting in HTML only, and your list is
> set to filter HTML.  If that is the case, it is strongly recommended
> that you teach your member to set his mail client to post in plain
> text (with or without HTML).

Depending on what is meant by "nothing", I've seen something like this  
happen another way.  Some clients will create a multipart/alternative  
message with a text/plain alternate and a text/html alternate.  But  
these clients will just put a note in the text/plain part that says  
roughly, "read the HTML part".

So with normal stripping of the text/html alternative all that comes  
through is a text/plain message that says "read the other part".  This  
naturally confuses list members, although I consider mailman's  
behavior absolutely correct.  The originating client is lying when it  
claims that it's produced a multipart/alternative message.

And naturally I concur with what I've snipped of your message,  
encouraging people to send only text/plain email.

Anyway, the OP should have the user cc the list administrator with  
their next posting attempt.  That way, you can examine the structure  
of the message that got submitted.

-j


-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/james.millsap%40chi
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Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9

From Mario at infokeep.com.br  Fri May 22 15:48:24 2009
From: Mario at infokeep.com.br (Infokeep - Mario Sergio)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 10:48:24 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto confirmation
Message-ID: 

Hi list,

 

When I send a message for my list, I'd like to receive the an email with
reading confirmation. I marked this options in my outlook. 

 

In menu Tools, Options:

 

Request reading confirmation

 

All people of my list receive my email but no confirmation was send to
me.

 

Is this possible? 

 

Regards,

MSC


From rking at mro.nmt.edu  Fri May 22 20:56:28 2009
From: rking at mro.nmt.edu (Ron King)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 12:56:28 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] BASH list renaming script
Message-ID: <4A16F55C.9060201@mro.nmt.edu>

I work with academics, who seem to find perverse joy in needing to 
reorganize everything at least once a year.  I wanted to post this 
somewhere before I lose it.  The script renames a list from the command 
line, without having to do anything from the web GUI.  It has always 
worked for me. 

Instructions:
Stop mail service. # add this to the script so you don't need to 
remember to do it
./rename_list.sh oldListName NewListName  # the names are usually all 
lowercase, JIC you get file/list not found errors.
Start mail service. # add this to the script so you don't need to 
remember to do it

rename_list.sh contents:
#!/bin/bash
OLD=$1
NEW=$2
#service zimbra stop # zimbra being our mail program
service mailman stop
test -a /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/${NEW} && echo "*** That 
mailing list name already exists. *** "
mv /var/lib/mailman/lists/${OLD} /var/lib/mailman/lists/${NEW}
mv /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/${OLD} 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/${NEW}
mv /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/${OLD}.mbox 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/${NEW}.mbox
mv /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/${NEW}.mbox/${OLD}.mbox 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/${NEW}.mbox/${NEW}.mbox
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/arch --wipe ${NEW}
echo "real_name = '$NEW'" > temp.txt
echo "subject_prefix = '[$NEW]'" >> temp.txt
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/config_list -i temp.txt $NEW
rm temp.txt -f
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases
service mailman start
#service zimbra start

-- 
Ron King
IT Manager
Magdalena Ridge Observatory - New Mexico Tech
101 East Rd - Socorro, NM 87501
575-835-5772 phone - 878-835-6807 fax
rking at mro.nmt.edu


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May 24 18:41:07 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 09:41:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto confirmation
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Infokeep - Mario Sergio wrote:
>
>All people of my list receive my email but no confirmation was send to
>me.


Mailman attempts to remove headers such as Return-Receipt-To:,
Disposition-Notification-To: and X-Confirm-Reading-To: from the
outgoing messages it sends. There are several reasons for this:

Many people are annoyed by these requests and set their MUAs to ignore
them, so they are not reliable.

Someone might inadvertently request return receipts on a post to a very
large list and then have to deal with a large number of replies.

Return receipts could be used to fish for membership on a list with a
restricted roster.

This removal can only be changed by modifying the Cleanse.py handler
that does the removal.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May 24 18:56:35 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 09:56:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! "Stuck Messages"
In-Reply-To: <349068.9080.qm@web36806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

Aaron Marcavitch wrote:
>
>We have a list of about 600.  I have been working hard to delete our bouncing members.  However, when I do a BIG delete session, no messages show up in the "approval" section.


I don't understand. First of all, why not just let Mailman's bounce
processing take care of removing bouncing members?

But, in any case, removing members should have nothing to do with
message approval, so I don't understand what the problem is. Can you
give more specific detail?


>I have the list on emergency moderation because we were having problems adjusting to our switch over from our old system.  When I didn't delete emails for a few days it worked fine.  Now its going on 12 days since our last email showed up for my approval.


If you mean there are no messages in the admindb interface, then
perhaps there have been no posts.

If you mean you haven't been getting notices of messages as they are
held, this is expected. Individual notices are not sent for
'emergency' holds.


>I know I am doing something wrong - I just can't figure out what....


Nor can I from the information you provided. Please try to provide more
specific detail about the actual problem, although it seems that this
may be something that will have to be addressed by the admins of the
Mailman installation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May 24 21:48:21 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 12:48:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! "Stuck Messages"
In-Reply-To: <654527.62477.qm@web36804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

Aaron Marcavitch wrote:
>
>Lets focus on the primary problem. I have personally sent emails to the system and I know others have as well - but there are none that are in the admin approval section of the web interface.  They last time I approved any emails was 14 days ago - even though many have been sent there.
>
>The only reason I can figure out that these messages are not coming up from approval is because I deleted several emails.  I went ahead and deleted them because....well, because I'm new with Mailman and didn't know that they would be deleted after a while....


I don't think your deleting members from the list has anything to do
with the problem.


>I have now turned off emergency moderation to see if that does anything.


OK


>I just dont know if there is some setting that is causing these emails to not come through....I would be glad to have some expert out there help us out to look over our settings.


For posts from list members, there are very few things that could cause
this. It would have to be something like a moderated member (not
emergency, but the individual member) together with Privacy options...
-> Sender filters -> member_moderation_action set to Discard or a
message that has all its content removed by Content filtering together
with filter_action being Discard or Preserve (you wouldn't see the
preserved messages).	

If list members are sending posts to the list and they are not
appearing in the admindb interface for the list with emergency
moderation on, there is likely something wrong with the Mailman
installation itself which has nothing to do specifically with your
list.

In any case, you should be able to send a message with Subject: help to
the LISTNAME-request at ... address and receive a "results of your email
commands" reply. If you try that and don't get the reply, the Mailman
installation itself isn't working.

Things which could be wrong are discussed in the FAQ at
, but for the most part, these are not
things that an individual list owner can deal with.


>Our Mailman installation is on Jumpline.com


Depending on what your exact hosting arrangement is with Jumpline.com,
this may be something that only Jumpline support can deal with. That
would be the case with "Shared Web Hosting" and probably also with
"VDS Web Hosting" and possibly also even with"VPS Web Hosting"
depending on who actually manages the VPS.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From shop at justbrits.com  Mon May 25 00:21:19 2009
From: shop at justbrits.com (Ed's Shop)
Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 17:21:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! "Stuck Messages"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Mark:

<>

Had a couple free minutes and checked out "Jumpline.com" 
with the following [and expected -:) ] results:


Powered by
Parallels Plesk & cPanel


Ed
Please visit MY site at:		www.justbrits.com


From admin2 at enabled.com  Mon May 25 01:15:22 2009
From: admin2 at enabled.com (admin2)
Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 16:15:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] check_perms failing: No such file or directory:
	'/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/maillist'
Message-ID: <4A19D50A.7070905@enabled.com>

Hi there,

I am not clear why check_perms are failing.  The error claims 
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/maillist' directory does not exist. 
but an 'ls' reveals it does.



/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/maillist bad group (has: mailman, 
expected list) (fixing)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "./check_perms", line 380, in 
     checkall()
   File "./check_perms", line 196, in checkall
     os.path.walk(d, checkwalk, STATE)
   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/posixpath.py", line 298, in walk
     walk(name, func, arg)
   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/posixpath.py", line 298, in walk
     walk(name, func, arg)
   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/posixpath.py", line 290, in walk
     func(arg, top, names)
   File "./check_perms", line 124, in checkwalk
     os.chown(path, -1, MAILMAN_GID)
OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/maillist'
root at enabled:/var/lib/mailman/bin# ls -l 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/maillist
lrwxrwxrwx 1 80 mailman 44 Dec 13  2005 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/maillist -> 
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/maillist
root at enabled:/var/lib/mailman/bin# ls -l 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/maillist
total 456
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman list   4096 Jan  1  2006 2005-December
-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list  27928 Jan  1  2006 2005-December.txt
-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list  10038 Jan  2  2006 2005-December.txt.gz
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman list   4096 Apr  5  2006 2006-April
-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list    604 Apr  5  2006 2006-April.txt
-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list    464 Apr  6  2006 2006-April.txt.gz
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman list   4096 Aug  8  2006 2006-August
-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list   4084 Aug  8  2006 2006-August.txt
-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list   2218 Aug  9  2006 2006-August.txt.gz
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman list   4096 Feb 28  2006 2006-February
-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list 160434 Feb 28  2006 2006-February.txt
-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list  48348 Mar  1  2006 2006-February.txt.gz
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman list   4096 Jan 18  2006 2006-January
-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list  55258 Jan 18  2006 2006-January.txt
-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list  19536 Jan 19  2006 2006-January.txt.gz
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman list   4096 Jun 26  2006 2006-June
-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list   7472 Jun 26  2006 2006-June.txt
-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list   3327 Jun 27  2006 2006-June.txt.gz
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman list   4096 Mar 20  2006 2006-March
-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list  27910 Mar 20  2006 2006-March.txt
-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list   7689 Mar 21  2006 2006-March.txt.gz
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman list   4096 May  2  2006 2006-May
-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list   6626 May  2  2006 2006-May.txt
-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list   3241 May  3  2006 2006-May.txt.gz
drwxrwsr-x 34 mailman list   4096 Jun 26  2006 attachments
drwxrws---  2 mailman list   4096 Aug  8  2006 database
-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list   4013 Aug  8  2006 index.html
-rw-r-----  1 mailman list    992 Aug  8  2006 pipermail.pck

# python -V
Python 2.5.2

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 25 02:01:18 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 17:01:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] check_perms failing: No such file or
	directory:'/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/maillist'
In-Reply-To: <4A19D50A.7070905@enabled.com>
Message-ID: 

admin2 wrote:
>
>I am not clear why check_perms are failing.  The error claims 
>'/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/maillist' directory does not exist. 
>but an 'ls' reveals it does.
>root at enabled:/var/lib/mailman/bin# ls -l 
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/maillist
>lrwxrwxrwx 1 80 mailman 44 Dec 13  2005 
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/maillist -> 
>/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/maillist


/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/maillist is a symlink possibly left
over from some other install or ???.

In any case it points to /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/maillist -
not to /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/maillist

Either Mailman is mis-configured with PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR naming
the wrong path, although it's hard to see how that wouldn't create
other havoc, or the symlink is just wrong and should be removed.


>root at enabled:/var/lib/mailman/bin# ls -l 
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/maillist
>total 456
>drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman list   4096 Jan  1  2006 2005-December
>-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list  27928 Jan  1  2006 2005-December.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list  10038 Jan  2  2006 2005-December.txt.gz
>drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman list   4096 Apr  5  2006 2006-April
>-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list    604 Apr  5  2006 2006-April.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list    464 Apr  6  2006 2006-April.txt.gz
>drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman list   4096 Aug  8  2006 2006-August
>-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list   4084 Aug  8  2006 2006-August.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list   2218 Aug  9  2006 2006-August.txt.gz
>drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman list   4096 Feb 28  2006 2006-February
>-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list 160434 Feb 28  2006 2006-February.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list  48348 Mar  1  2006 2006-February.txt.gz
>drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman list   4096 Jan 18  2006 2006-January
>-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list  55258 Jan 18  2006 2006-January.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list  19536 Jan 19  2006 2006-January.txt.gz
>drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman list   4096 Jun 26  2006 2006-June
>-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list   7472 Jun 26  2006 2006-June.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list   3327 Jun 27  2006 2006-June.txt.gz
>drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman list   4096 Mar 20  2006 2006-March
>-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list  27910 Mar 20  2006 2006-March.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list   7689 Mar 21  2006 2006-March.txt.gz
>drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman list   4096 May  2  2006 2006-May
>-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list   6626 May  2  2006 2006-May.txt
>-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list   3241 May  3  2006 2006-May.txt.gz
>drwxrwsr-x 34 mailman list   4096 Jun 26  2006 attachments
>drwxrws---  2 mailman list   4096 Aug  8  2006 database
>-rw-r--r--  1 mailman list   4013 Aug  8  2006 index.html
>-rw-r-----  1 mailman list    992 Aug  8  2006 pipermail.pck

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From admin2 at enabled.com  Mon May 25 08:02:20 2009
From: admin2 at enabled.com (admin2)
Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 23:02:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] check_perms does not fix permissions
Message-ID: <4A1A346C.3020007@enabled.com>

Hi,


okay I am running check_perms with the -f switch and find that the same 
Problems occur over and over.  Why are they not getting fixed?  I am 
running check_perms as root.


Problems found: 1283
Re-run as list (or root) with -f flag to fix

From dunkel at calamus.net  Mon May 25 12:03:00 2009
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 12:03:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to unshunt?
Message-ID: <4A1A6CD4.8070003@calamus.net>

I recently changed my Mailman 2.1.9 installation to use and support 
Unicode. I cannot update to a newer Mailman version as long as my Debian 
Etch hasn't been upgraded to the current Debian version, as I have been 
told by my ISP.

I have found various error reports in /var/log/mailman/error and fixed 
everything to have a usable Mailman again. But there are still many 
shunted emails in /qfiles/retry/, /qfiles/shunt/ and /qfiles/virgin/.

When I try

$ /var/lib/mailman/bin/unshunt
$ -bash: unshunt: command not known

What am I doing wrong? When I try

$ /var/lib/mailman/bin/python unshunt

it simply returns to the prompt after a while, without having proceeded 
the shunted files, as far as I can see. Is my "unshunt" kind of damaged? 
Do I miss some files?

Thanks in advance for any help,
--UlfDunkel

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 25 16:58:35 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 07:58:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to unshunt?
In-Reply-To: <4A1A6CD4.8070003@calamus.net>
Message-ID: 

Ulf Dunkel wrote:
>
>I have found various error reports in /var/log/mailman/error and fixed 
>everything to have a usable Mailman again. But there are still many 
>shunted emails in /qfiles/retry/, /qfiles/shunt/ and /qfiles/virgin/.


The files in qfiles/retry/ and qfiles/virgin/ are not shunted. If they
are *.pck files, they should be processed normally by RetryRunner and
VirginRunner respectively if those runners are running. If they are
*.bak files, they are 'backup' queue entries that were possibly left
behind if the runner died while processing a message. If so, they
should be reprocessed the next time the runner starts.


>When I try
>
>$ /var/lib/mailman/bin/unshunt
>$ -bash: unshunt: command not known


Does /var/lib/mailman/bin/unshunt exist and is it executable (mode
-rwxr-xr-x)?


>What am I doing wrong? When I try
>
>$ /var/lib/mailman/bin/python unshunt


Do you really have a python in /var/lib/mailman/bin or did you perhaps
mean

$ python /var/lib/mailman/bin/unshunt


>it simply returns to the prompt after a while, without having proceeded 
>the shunted files, as far as I can see. Is my "unshunt" kind of damaged? 


Unshunt will process *.bak and *.pck files in qfiles/shunt/ first
renaming the .bak files to .pck and then attempting to restore the
.pck files to their original queue. For any .pck files it can't
requeue, it should print a "Cannot unshunt message xxxxx, skipping"
message and leave that file as a .bak in the shunt/ queue.

You can look at these files with bin/dumpdb -p to see the message and
the metadata. Each file should contain two objects, the message and
the metadata. The metadata should have a 'whichq' attribute indicating
which queue to put it in.

Is it possible that the messages are being unshunted and then throwing
exceptions in processing and being shunted again?

What do mailman's error and smtp-failure (for retry) logs say?

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 25 17:04:39 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 08:04:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] check_perms does not fix permissions
In-Reply-To: <4A1A346C.3020007@enabled.com>
Message-ID: 

admin2 wrote:
>
>okay I am running check_perms with the -f switch and find that the same 
>Problems occur over and over.  Why are they not getting fixed?  I am 
>running check_perms as root.
>
>
>Problems found: 1283
>Re-run as list (or root) with -f flag to fix


The most likely explanation is there are directories in Mailman's tree
that are symlinks. check_perms looks at the permissions of the link
itself (generally rwxrwxrwx) and complain's about those. Then when it
tries to fix them, it is the permissions of the target that are
changed, and the link still has the permissions check_perms doesn't
like.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dunkel at calamus.net  Mon May 25 18:02:30 2009
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 18:02:30 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to unshunt?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A1AC116.2020806@calamus.net>

Hi Mark.

> The files in qfiles/retry/ and qfiles/virgin/ are not shunted. If they
> are *.pck files, they should be processed normally by RetryRunner and
> VirginRunner respectively if those runners are running. If they are
> *.bak files, they are 'backup' queue entries that were possibly left
> behind if the runner died while processing a message. If so, they
> should be reprocessed the next time the runner starts.

/qfiles/retry/ contains *.pck files.
/qfiles/virgin/ contains one *.pck.tmp file only.


> Does /var/lib/mailman/bin/unshunt exist and is it executable (mode
> -rwxr-xr-x)?

Yes, it exists there physically (no link or stuff) and is executable 
with mode -rwxr-xr-x.


>> What am I doing wrong? When I try
>>
>> $ /var/lib/mailman/bin/python unshunt
> 
> 
> Do you really have a python in /var/lib/mailman/bin or did you perhaps
> mean
> 
> $ python /var/lib/mailman/bin/unshunt

Yepp, of course I meant the latter. Sorry.


> Unshunt will process *.bak and *.pck files in qfiles/shunt/ first
> renaming the .bak files to .pck and then attempting to restore the
> .pck files to their original queue. For any .pck files it can't
> requeue, it should print a "Cannot unshunt message xxxxx, skipping"
> message and leave that file as a .bak in the shunt/ queue.

Sorry, but it doesn't print anything and simply quits. Afterwards, all 
existing .pck files in the shunt/ folder have been updated to the 
current date+time. That seems to be all. :-o

> You can look at these files with bin/dumpdb -p to see the message and
> the metadata. Each file should contain two objects, the message and
> the metadata. The metadata should have a 'whichq' attribute indicating
> which queue to put it in.

I can see these data for all files, seem to be fine.


> Is it possible that the messages are being unshunted and then throwing
> exceptions in processing and being shunted again?
> 
> What do mailman's error and smtp-failure (for retry) logs say?

error says:
---snip---
[...]
May 25 17:57:06 2009 (5320) Uncaught runner exception: 'utf8' codec 
can't decode bytes in position 30-35: unsupported Unicode code range
May 25 17:57:06 2009 (5320) Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/VirginRunner.py", line 38, in 
_dispose
     return IncomingRunner._dispose(self, mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in 
_dispose
     more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in 
_dopipeline
     sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 188, in 
process
     i18ndesc = uheader(mlist, mlist.description, 'List-Id', maxlinelen=998)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 65, in 
uheader
     return Header(s, charset, maxlinelen, header_name, continuation_ws)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Header.py", line 188, in __init__
     self.append(s, charset, errors)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Header.py", line 272, in append
     ustr = unicode(s, incodec, errors)
UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode bytes in position 30-35: 
unsupported Unicode code range

May 25 17:57:06 2009 (5320) SHUNTING: 
1243264080.014122+b4e9af652fe7695880609b2edfb94ed8841bbfb3
---snap---


smtp-failure says:
----- snip -----
[...]
May 25 17:56:38 2009 (5319) All recipients refused: 
{'udo_discussion-owner at lists.udo-open-source.org': (451, 'Temporary 
local problem - please try later')}, msg
May 25 17:56:38 2009 (5319) delivery to 
udo_discussion-owner at lists.udo-open-source.org failed with code 451: 
Temporary local problem - please try later
----- snap -----

What the heck should I do? I have no idea where else I should search for 
"wrong" utf8 stuff and what "Temporary local problem" means.

As always, Mark: I really appreciate your help. :-)

--UlfDunkel

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 25 18:46:57 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 09:46:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to unshunt?
In-Reply-To: <4A1AC116.2020806@calamus.net>
Message-ID: 

Ulf Dunkel wrote:
>
>/qfiles/retry/ contains *.pck files.


Which are messages that have "retryable" delivery problems which should
be retried at intervals (default 15 minutes) for some period (default
5 days) or until they are delivered. There should be smtp-failure log
entries for the failed deliveries.


>/qfiles/virgin/ contains one *.pck.tmp file only.


This is a Mailman generated message that never got fully queued because
the process queueing it died.


>> Does /var/lib/mailman/bin/unshunt exist and is it executable (mode
>> -rwxr-xr-x)?
>
>Yes, it exists there physically (no link or stuff) and is executable 
>with mode -rwxr-xr-x.


Then the #! first line points at a non-existent python, or if it says
"#! @PYTHON@", this is a file that has not been configured by
Mailman's configure - i.e it is a file unpacked from the tarball and
not processed through configure and make.


>>> What am I doing wrong? When I try
>>>
>>> $ /var/lib/mailman/bin/python unshunt
>> 
>> 
>> Do you really have a python in /var/lib/mailman/bin or did you perhaps
>> mean
>> 
>> $ python /var/lib/mailman/bin/unshunt
>
>Yepp, of course I meant the latter. Sorry.
>
>
>> Unshunt will process *.bak and *.pck files in qfiles/shunt/ first
>> renaming the .bak files to .pck and then attempting to restore the
>> .pck files to their original queue. For any .pck files it can't
>> requeue, it should print a "Cannot unshunt message xxxxx, skipping"
>> message and leave that file as a .bak in the shunt/ queue.
>
>Sorry, but it doesn't print anything and simply quits. Afterwards, all 
>existing .pck files in the shunt/ folder have been updated to the 
>current date+time. That seems to be all. :-o


Which indicates they were unshunted, processed and encountered the same
exception as before and were shunted again.


>> You can look at these files with bin/dumpdb -p to see the message and
>> the metadata. Each file should contain two objects, the message and
>> the metadata. The metadata should have a 'whichq' attribute indicating
>> which queue to put it in.
>
>I can see these data for all files, seem to be fine.
>
>
>> Is it possible that the messages are being unshunted and then throwing
>> exceptions in processing and being shunted again?
>> 
>> What do mailman's error and smtp-failure (for retry) logs say?
>
>error says:
>---snip---
>[...]
>May 25 17:57:06 2009 (5320) Uncaught runner exception: 'utf8' codec 
>can't decode bytes in position 30-35: unsupported Unicode code range
>May 25 17:57:06 2009 (5320) Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
>     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
>     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/VirginRunner.py", line 38, in 
>_dispose
>     return IncomingRunner._dispose(self, mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in 
>_dispose
>     more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in 
>_dopipeline
>     sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 188, in 
>process
>     i18ndesc = uheader(mlist, mlist.description, 'List-Id', maxlinelen=998)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 65, in 
>uheader
>     return Header(s, charset, maxlinelen, header_name, continuation_ws)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Header.py", line 188, in __init__
>     self.append(s, charset, errors)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Header.py", line 272, in append
>     ustr = unicode(s, incodec, errors)
>UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode bytes in position 30-35: 
>unsupported Unicode code range
>
>May 25 17:57:06 2009 (5320) SHUNTING: 
>1243264080.014122+b4e9af652fe7695880609b2edfb94ed8841bbfb3
>---snap---
>
>
>smtp-failure says:
>----- snip -----
>[...]
>May 25 17:56:38 2009 (5319) All recipients refused: 
>{'udo_discussion-owner at lists.udo-open-source.org': (451, 'Temporary 
>local problem - please try later')}, msg
>May 25 17:56:38 2009 (5319) delivery to 
>udo_discussion-owner at lists.udo-open-source.org failed with code 451: 
>Temporary local problem - please try later
>----- snap -----
>
>What the heck should I do? I have no idea where else I should search for 
>"wrong" utf8 stuff and what "Temporary local problem" means.


The "Temporary local problem" message is reported by your MTA to
Mailman. Check the MTA's logs which may have more information.

Regarding the utf8 issue, your OP says "I recently changed my Mailman
2.1.9 installation to use and support Unicode." The error occurs when
CookHeaders is trying to encode the list's 'description' for the
List-ID header. I suspect that the charset for the list's preferred
language is now utf-8, but the list's description is still iso-8859-1
or whatever and thus contains non utf-8 codes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dunkel at calamus.net  Mon May 25 19:53:25 2009
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 19:53:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to unshunt?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A1ADB15.70707@calamus.net>

Hi Mark.

>>> Does /var/lib/mailman/bin/unshunt exist and is it executable (mode
>>> -rwxr-xr-x)?
>> Yes, it exists there physically (no link or stuff) and is executable 
>> with mode -rwxr-xr-x.
> 
> 
> Then the #! first line points at a non-existent python, or if it says
> "#! @PYTHON@", this is a file that has not been configured by
> Mailman's configure - i.e it is a file unpacked from the tarball and
> not processed through configure and make.

The first line reads like this:
----- snip -----
#! /usr/bin/python
----- snap -----

... and of course /usr/bin/python exists, but is a link to 
/usr/bin/python2.4 - is this okay?


> The "Temporary local problem" message is reported by your MTA to
> Mailman. Check the MTA's logs which may have more information.

This looks rather strange to me (identical in exim4/mainlog and 
exim4/rejectlog):
----- snip -----
2009-05-25 17:56:38 H=localhost (calamus.calamus.net) [127.0.0.1] 
F= temporarily 
rejected RCPT : remote 
host address is the local host
----- snap -----

I have really NO IDEA what this means and how I can fix it. ;-)
Both domains (calamus.net and udo-open-source.org) are on my server.


> Regarding the utf8 issue, your OP says "I recently changed my Mailman
> 2.1.9 installation to use and support Unicode." The error occurs when
> CookHeaders is trying to encode the list's 'description' for the
> List-ID header. I suspect that the charset for the list's preferred
> language is now utf-8, but the list's description is still iso-8859-1
> or whatever and thus contains non utf-8 codes.

Thank you. I'll check these ...

PS: By the way: Checking the .pck contents, I see much SPAM stuff. Would 
it be okay to simply delete those .pck files and concentrate on my own 
messages in both the /retry/ and /shunt/ folders?

--UlfDunkel

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 25 20:45:57 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 11:45:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to unshunt?
In-Reply-To: <4A1ADB15.70707@calamus.net>
Message-ID: 

Ulf Dunkel wrote:
>
>>>> Does /var/lib/mailman/bin/unshunt exist and is it executable (mode
>>>> -rwxr-xr-x)?
>>> Yes, it exists there physically (no link or stuff) and is executable 
>>> with mode -rwxr-xr-x.
>> 
>> 
>> Then the #! first line points at a non-existent python, or if it says
>> "#! @PYTHON@", this is a file that has not been configured by
>> Mailman's configure - i.e it is a file unpacked from the tarball and
>> not processed through configure and make.
>
>The first line reads like this:
>----- snip -----
>#! /usr/bin/python
>----- snap -----
>
>... and of course /usr/bin/python exists, but is a link to 
>/usr/bin/python2.4 - is this okay?


It should be. I am now out of ideas as to why bash would report

$ /var/lib/mailman/bin/unshunt
$ -bash: unshunt: command not known

Although that doesn't seem to be an exact copy/paste of the command and
response.


>> The "Temporary local problem" message is reported by your MTA to
>> Mailman. Check the MTA's logs which may have more information.
>
>This looks rather strange to me (identical in exim4/mainlog and 
>exim4/rejectlog):
>----- snip -----
>2009-05-25 17:56:38 H=localhost (calamus.calamus.net) [127.0.0.1] 
>F= temporarily 
>rejected RCPT : remote 
>host address is the local host
>----- snap -----
>
>I have really NO IDEA what this means and how I can fix it. ;-)
>Both domains (calamus.net and udo-open-source.org) are on my server.


This is an exim configuration question.
 may help.

Is lists.udo-open-source.org in the "domainlist local_domains" list in
exim.conf?


>> Regarding the utf8 issue, your OP says "I recently changed my Mailman
>> 2.1.9 installation to use and support Unicode." The error occurs when
>> CookHeaders is trying to encode the list's 'description' for the
>> List-ID header. I suspect that the charset for the list's preferred
>> language is now utf-8, but the list's description is still iso-8859-1
>> or whatever and thus contains non utf-8 codes.
>
>Thank you. I'll check these ...
>
>PS: By the way: Checking the .pck contents, I see much SPAM stuff. Would 
>it be okay to simply delete those .pck files and concentrate on my own 
>messages in both the /retry/ and /shunt/ folders?


Yes. Just delete them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Mon May 25 22:01:37 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 21:01:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] check_perms does not fix permissions
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A1A346C.3020007@enabled.com>
	
Message-ID: <20090525200137.GD2053@amyl.org.uk>

On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 08:04:39AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >Problems found: 1283
> >Re-run as list (or root) with -f flag to fix
> 
> The most likely explanation is there are directories in Mailman's tree
> that are symlinks. check_perms looks at the permissions of the link
> itself (generally rwxrwxrwx) and complain's about those. Then when it
> tries to fix them, it is the permissions of the target that are
> changed, and the link still has the permissions check_perms doesn't
> like.

FWIW, I've certainly noticed that (symlinks) to be the case with the
Debian packaged versions of Mailman.

(I've still not had a chance to build the Umbungo version of 2.1.12 I
was going to, but had I, I probably would have tried a fix for
that/this issue, someway or another. It's an annoyance to me.)

Saying that, I'd not expect there to be 1283 problems...

-- 
``Burnham's ideas appear in `1984', more or less
  unchanged by their passage through Orwell.''
  (Phil Edwards on oligarchical collectivism)

From admin2 at enabled.com  Mon May 25 23:50:35 2009
From: admin2 at enabled.com (admin2)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 14:50:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] correcting archive URLs
Message-ID: <4A1B12AB.40203@enabled.com>

Hi there,

I have Migrating a mail list from one Host to another host.  I see that 
the archives have URL pointers to domain1.com .  I no longer own 
domain1.com and would like to replace domain1.com with domain2.com

is there an application already written to do that?


Here is what I see in the archives.

--- snip ---

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
http://lists.domain1.com/pipermail/listname/attachments/20060928/79676479/attachment.htm 




--- snip ----


Cheers,

Noah

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 26 01:04:10 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 16:04:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] correcting archive URLs
In-Reply-To: <4A1B12AB.40203@enabled.com>
Message-ID: 

admin2 wrote:
>
>I have Migrating a mail list from one Host to another host.  I see that 
>the archives have URL pointers to domain1.com .  I no longer own 
>domain1.com and would like to replace domain1.com with domain2.com
>
>is there an application already written to do that?


bin/arch --wipe LISTNAME

However, it is a good idea to first run

bin/cleanarch --dry-run < archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox

to check for unescaped "From " lines in message bodies.

See

bin/arch --help

and

bin/cleanarch --help


>Here is what I see in the archives.
>
>--- snip ---
>
>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>URL: 
>http://lists.domain1.com/pipermail/listname/attachments/20060928/79676479/attachment.htm 


Assuming the the list's scrub_nondigest setting is No, so that this
html part was scrubbed for the archive and not scrubbed from the
original message, then these links will be fixed as will the "more
information about this list" links.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dunkel at calamus.net  Tue May 26 09:18:05 2009
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 09:18:05 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to unshunt?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A1B97AD.5090106@calamus.net>

Hello Mark.

> It should be. I am now out of ideas as to why bash would report
> 
> $ /var/lib/mailman/bin/unshunt
> $ -bash: unshunt: command not known
> 
> Although that doesn't seem to be an exact copy/paste of the command and
> response.

The litteral console output was:

----- snip -----
calamus:~# cd /var/lib/mailman/bin/
calamus:/var/lib/mailman/bin# unshunt
-bash: unshunt: command not found
calamus:/var/lib/mailman/bin#
----- snap -----


>> ----- snip -----
>> 2009-05-25 17:56:38 H=localhost (calamus.calamus.net) [127.0.0.1] 
>> F= temporarily 
>> rejected RCPT : remote 
>> host address is the local host
>> ----- snap -----
>>
>> I have really NO IDEA what this means and how I can fix it. ;-)
>> Both domains (calamus.net and udo-open-source.org) are on my server.
> 
> 
> This is an exim configuration question.
>  may help.
> 
> Is lists.udo-open-source.org in the "domainlist local_domains" list in
> exim.conf?

Oh, it was only defined in Apache's virtual domains. Thank you for 
pointing me to this. I fixed it now.


>> PS: By the way: Checking the .pck contents, I see much SPAM stuff. Would 
>> it be okay to simply delete those .pck files and concentrate on my own 
>> messages in both the /retry/ and /shunt/ folders?
> 
> 
> Yes. Just delete them.

Everything seems to run fine again. Thanks a bunch.

--UlfDunkel

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue May 26 09:40:03 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 16:40:03 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to unshunt?
In-Reply-To: <4A1B97AD.5090106@calamus.net>
References: 
	<4A1B97AD.5090106@calamus.net>
Message-ID: <87r5yccnxo.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Ulf Dunkel writes:

 > The litteral console output was:
 > 
 > ----- snip -----
 > calamus:~# cd /var/lib/mailman/bin/
 > calamus:/var/lib/mailman/bin# unshunt
 > -bash: unshunt: command not found
 > calamus:/var/lib/mailman/bin#
 > ----- snap -----

On Unix, for various reasons, the current directory is normally *not*
in the search path for commands.  You need to prefix the command name
with the directory name (for current directory, you can abbreviate
that to "./") like this:

calamus:/var/lib/mailman/bin# ./unshunt 


From dunkel at calamus.net  Tue May 26 10:28:37 2009
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 10:28:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to unshunt?
In-Reply-To: <87r5yccnxo.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: 	<4A1B97AD.5090106@calamus.net>
	<87r5yccnxo.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4A1BA835.9060303@calamus.net>

Hi Stephen.

> On Unix, for various reasons, the current directory is normally *not*
> in the search path for commands.  You need to prefix the command name
> with the directory name (for current directory, you can abbreviate
> that to "./") like this:
> 
> calamus:/var/lib/mailman/bin# ./unshunt 

Cool - thank you for pointing me to this. Works fine. I just wonder why 
various other executables in the mailman/bin folder are executed without 
this trick, but this one doesn't.

U se
N erd's
I ntelligence
X ternal

From admin2 at enabled.com  Tue May 26 11:54:14 2009
From: admin2 at enabled.com (admin2)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 02:54:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] correcting archive URLs
Message-ID: <4A1BBC46.20109@enabled.com>

Hi there,

I have Migrating a mail list from one Host to another host.  I see that
the archives have URL pointers to domain1.com .  I no longer own
domain1.com and would like to replace domain1.com with domain2.com

is there an application already written to do that?


Here is what I see in the archives.

--- snip ---

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.domain1.com/pipermail/listname/attachments/20060928/79676479/attachment.htm 





--- snip ----


Cheers,

Noah

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 26 16:28:26 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 07:28:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] correcting archive URLs
In-Reply-To: <4A1BBC46.20109@enabled.com>
Message-ID: 

admin2 wrote:
>
>I have Migrating a mail list from one Host to another host.  I see that
>the archives have URL pointers to domain1.com .  I no longer own
>domain1.com and would like to replace domain1.com with domain2.com


Answered yesterday
.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From acornhp at yahoo.com  Sun May 24 21:14:56 2009
From: acornhp at yahoo.com (Aaron Marcavitch)
Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 12:14:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! "Stuck Messages"
Message-ID: <654527.62477.qm@web36804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Sorry - I know I am explaining it badly.

It may be that there is a fallacy here - and I am trying to make a connection that isn't there.

Lets focus on the primary problem. I have personally sent emails to the system and I know others have as well - but there are none that are in the admin approval section of the web interface.  They last time I approved any emails was 14 days ago - even though many have been sent there.

The only reason I can figure out that these messages are not coming up from approval is because I deleted several emails.  I went ahead and deleted them because....well, because I'm new with Mailman and didn't know that they would be deleted after a while....

I have now turned off emergency moderation to see if that does anything.

I just dont know if there is some setting that is causing these emails to not come through....I would be glad to have some expert out there help us out to look over our settings.

Our Mailman installation is on Jumpline.com

Aaron
Vernacular Architecture Forum E-List Manager

--------
http://www.marcavitch.com


--- On Sun, 5/24/09, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> From: Mark Sapiro 
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Help! "Stuck Messages"
> To: "Aaron Marcavitch" , mailman-users at python.org
> Date: Sunday, May 24, 2009, 11:56 AM
> Aaron Marcavitch wrote:
> >
> >We have a list of about 600.? I have been working
> hard to delete our bouncing members.? However, when I
> do a BIG delete session, no messages show up in the
> "approval" section.
> 
> 
> I don't understand. First of all, why not just let
> Mailman's bounce
> processing take care of removing bouncing members?
> 
> But, in any case, removing members should have nothing to
> do with
> message approval, so I don't understand what the problem
> is. Can you
> give more specific detail?
> 
> 
> >I have the list on emergency moderation because we were
> having problems adjusting to our switch over from our old
> system.? When I didn't delete emails for a few days it
> worked fine.? Now its going on 12 days since our last
> email showed up for my approval.
> 
> 
> If you mean there are no messages in the admindb interface,
> then
> perhaps there have been no posts.
> 
> If you mean you haven't been getting notices of messages as
> they are
> held, this is expected. Individual notices are not sent
> for
> 'emergency' holds.
> 
> 
> >I know I am doing something wrong - I just can't figure
> out what....
> 
> 
> Nor can I from the information you provided. Please try to
> provide more
> specific detail about the actual problem, although it seems
> that this
> may be something that will have to be addressed by the
> admins of the
> Mailman installation.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro ?
> ? ? ? The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California? ? better use
> your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 


      

From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Mon May 25 16:10:42 2009
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 10:10:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Odd Behavior
Message-ID: <4A1AA6E2.9010701@bellsouth.net>

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 258 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: 

From Mario at infokeep.com.br  Mon May 25 14:42:03 2009
From: Mario at infokeep.com.br (Infokeep - Mario Sergio)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 09:42:03 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RES:  Auto confirmation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Mark,

I looked the Cleanse.py file and I found something like this:

    # Some headers can be used to fish for membership
    del msg['return-receipt-to']
    del msg['disposition-notification-to']
    del msg['x-confirm-reading-to']

In this case, Do I need only comment this lines? Or I need to remove the
"del" string in these lines?

Thanks for all!

---
MSC

-----Mensagem original-----
De: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Enviada em: domingo, 24 de maio de 2009 13:41
Para: Infokeep - Mario Sergio; mailman-users at python.org
Assunto: Re: [Mailman-Users] Auto confirmation

Infokeep - Mario Sergio wrote:
>
>All people of my list receive my email but no confirmation was send to
>me.


Mailman attempts to remove headers such as Return-Receipt-To:,
Disposition-Notification-To: and X-Confirm-Reading-To: from the
outgoing messages it sends. There are several reasons for this:

Many people are annoyed by these requests and set their MUAs to ignore
them, so they are not reliable.

Someone might inadvertently request return receipts on a post to a very
large list and then have to deal with a large number of replies.

Return receipts could be used to fish for membership on a list with a
restricted roster.

This removal can only be changed by modifying the Cleanse.py handler
that does the removal.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From repsons at gmail.com  Mon May 25 10:46:32 2009
From: repsons at gmail.com (=?utf-8?q?K=C4=81rlis_Repsons?=)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 08:46:32 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How list archive is stored internally?
Message-ID: <200905250846.32971.repsons@gmail.com>

Hello!
I would like to ask you a couple of questions:
1. How list's mail archive is stored internally and, so, how can it be later 
copied over to a new server, say, after an upgrade?
2. Is there some way to use a fixed http link to the latest mail archive 
(current month or last N messages)?

Thanks and please cc to my address too!
K?rlis

From sean0920 at gmail.com  Tue May 26 14:12:33 2009
From: sean0920 at gmail.com (Sean)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 20:12:33 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about the "Group mismatch error" when
	updating mailman service
Message-ID: 

Dear all

I have a strange question for creating a new list after updating mailman
server.

Currently, I had updated my mailman server to a new machine.
(mailman-2.1.5_2 -> mailman-2.1.9_5)
My server is FreeBSD 7.0, Postfix + mailman 2.1.9_5

And I translate the lists and archives on old machine to new machine.
I called these lists "old lists". The old lists can work correctly on the
new machine.

Now I create a new list by bin/newlist, but it got a error when I send mail
to this new list which is
" "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post eos". Command output: Group mismatch
   error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group
   "nobody", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group
   "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group
   "nobody", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
   `--with-mail-gid=mailman'."

So I reinstall mailman server with --with-mail-gid=mailman setting.
Then the new list can work correctly.

But the other question happened. "Group mismatch error" happeded on the old
lists which is
" "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post xip". Command output: Group mismatch
   error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group
   "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group
   "nobody".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group
   "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
   `--with-mail-gid=nobody' "

Now I'm confused at this situation because I didn't change the system's mail
server. But it shows that the system's mail server executed the mail script
as group "mailman" and "nobody" after I reinstalled. Why?
How can I solve this question? Can anyone give me any idea?

Thanks a lot!!!

Best Regards,
Sean

From henry at dotrose.com  Tue May 26 15:57:51 2009
From: henry at dotrose.com (Henry Hartley)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 09:57:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dealing with spam
Message-ID: <4A1BF55F.9000606@dotrose.com>

I have a few small, private lists managed with Mailman. For the most 
part, I don't have problems with spam, probably aided by the fact that 
they are both small and private. Lately, however, on one list (about two 
dozen addresses) I'm getting spam that has valid users as the From: 
address. My first thought was that the users' machines were being used 
as spam bots but at least one uses my server as it's mail server and 
these messages are coming from other servers. So, it seems that their 
address is being spoofed and being used to sent mail to the list (even 
though it isn't advertised).

For the most part, messages are coming with implicit destination so I 
can simply discard them but occasionally they come directly to the list 
and are not filtered. I have two questions:

1) What is the best practice approach to dealing with these messages? I 
have simply been discarding them. If I reject them, will that send a 
response back that might make an automated sender drop my list address 
from their list as a non-working address? Or is that wishful thinking?

2) Is there some way to automatically reject or discard mail with 
implicit destination rather than holding it for moderation? The users of 
this particular list do not (ever) intentionally use an implicit 
destination so I wouldn't mind just automating that. There doesn't seem 
to be a setting on the Recipient Filters page of Privacy options.

Thanks.

-- 
Henry

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 26 18:18:21 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 09:18:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How list archive is stored internally?
In-Reply-To: <200905250846.32971.repsons@gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Karlis Repsons wrote:

>Hello!
>I would like to ask you a couple of questions:
>1. How list's mail archive is stored internally and, so, how can it be later 
>copied over to a new server, say, after an upgrade?


In a default installation there is a cumulative mailbox at
archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox which contains all
archived messages. The Mailman command line tool bin/arch can be used
to rebuild the pipermail archive from this file.


>2. Is there some way to use a fixed http link to the latest mail archive 
>(current month or last N messages)?


Make a symlink to the current month's archive and update it monthly
with a cron.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 26 18:22:32 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 09:22:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RES:  Auto confirmation
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Infokeep - Mario Sergio wrote:
>
>I looked the Cleanse.py file and I found something like this:
>
>    # Some headers can be used to fish for membership
>    del msg['return-receipt-to']
>    del msg['disposition-notification-to']
>    del msg['x-confirm-reading-to']
>
>In this case, Do I need only comment this lines? Or I need to remove the
>"del" string in these lines?


If you're sure you want to do this is spite of the fact that you will
get unreliable information from it and you will annoy at least some of
your list members, you can either comment the lines or remove them
entirely.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 26 18:30:43 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 09:30:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about the "Group mismatch error"
	whenupdating mailman service
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Sean wrote:
>
>I have a strange question for creating a new list after updating mailman
>server.
>
>Currently, I had updated my mailman server to a new machine.
>(mailman-2.1.5_2 -> mailman-2.1.9_5)
>My server is FreeBSD 7.0, Postfix + mailman 2.1.9_5
>
>And I translate the lists and archives on old machine to new machine.
>I called these lists "old lists". The old lists can work correctly on the
>new machine.
>
>Now I create a new list by bin/newlist, but it got a error when I send mail
>to this new list which is
>" "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post eos". Command output: Group mismatch
>   error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group
>   "nobody", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group
>   "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group
>   "nobody", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
>   `--with-mail-gid=mailman'."
>
>So I reinstall mailman server with --with-mail-gid=mailman setting.
>Then the new list can work correctly.
>
>But the other question happened. "Group mismatch error" happeded on the old
>lists which is
>" "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post xip". Command output: Group mismatch
>   error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group
>   "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group
>   "nobody".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group
>   "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
>   `--with-mail-gid=nobody' "
>
>Now I'm confused at this situation because I didn't change the system's mail
>server. But it shows that the system's mail server executed the mail script
>as group "mailman" and "nobody" after I reinstalled. Why?
>How can I solve this question? Can anyone give me any idea?


You are using Postfix and all your Mailman aliases are not in the same
file. Postfix runs the pipe for an alias as the user (and that user's
primary group) that owns the aliases.db file in which it finds the
alias.

Your old list aliases are in a .db file that's owned by 'nobody' (or
probably root) and your new list alaises are in a .db file that's
owned by 'mailman'.

If you have Mailman/Postfix integration, remove all the old aliases
from whatever file they're in and run Mailman's bin/genaliases to
generate all the aliases for all lists in the new file.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From drew.tenenholz at isid.org  Tue May 26 20:37:03 2009
From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 14:37:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Renaming a List
Message-ID: 

Folks --

I'm thinking of changing the name of one of my lists and have read 
through the FAQ 4.70 
 which 
says the basic tasks are:

  mv lists/oldlist lists/newlist
  mv archives/private/oldlist archives/private/newlist
  mv archives/private/oldlist.mbox archives/private/newlist.mbox
  mv archives/private/newlist.mbox/oldlist.mbox 
archives/private/newlist.mbox/newlist.mbox

as well as rebuilding the archives.

Is there any reason I cannot use cp (copy) or ditto (copy with 
identical permissions) instead of mv (move) as a first step, confirm 
the 'new' list is working, and then go back and run bin/rmlist?  I'm 
a bit paranoid about the setup, and would like to be able to make 
non-catastrophic mistakes.

If so, any opinions on whether to use cp versus ditto?

Thanks,
Drew Tenenholz

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue May 26 21:01:45 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 12:01:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Renaming a List
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Drew Tenenholz wrote:
>
>I'm thinking of changing the name of one of my lists and have read 
>through the FAQ 4.70 
> which 
>says the basic tasks are:
>
>  mv lists/oldlist lists/newlist
>  mv archives/private/oldlist archives/private/newlist
>  mv archives/private/oldlist.mbox archives/private/newlist.mbox
>  mv archives/private/newlist.mbox/oldlist.mbox 
>archives/private/newlist.mbox/newlist.mbox
>
>as well as rebuilding the archives.
>
>Is there any reason I cannot use cp (copy) or ditto (copy with 
>identical permissions) instead of mv (move) as a first step,


You can replace the first 3 'mv' with 'cp -a' if you'd rather.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Tue May 26 22:00:46 2009
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=B6rster?=)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 22:00:46 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to unshunt?
In-Reply-To: <4A1BA835.9060303@calamus.net>
References: 
	<4A1B97AD.5090106@calamus.net>
	<87r5yccnxo.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<4A1BA835.9060303@calamus.net>
Message-ID: <20090526200046.GV4103@mail.incertum.net>

* Ulf Dunkel  wrote:
> 
>> On Unix, for various reasons, the current directory is normally *not*
>> in the search path for commands.  You need to prefix the command name
>> with the directory name (for current directory, you can abbreviate
>> that to "./") like this:
>> 
>> calamus:/var/lib/mailman/bin# ./unshunt 
> 
> Cool - thank you for pointing me to this. Works fine. I just wonder why
> various other executables in the mailman/bin folder are executed without

This is getting way offtopic, but a quick

type command

follwed if needed by

ls -l $(which command)

where "command" is one of the binaries you can execute (i.e. without a
leading "./" in mailman/bin) will probably enlighten you :-)


Ciao
Stefan
-- 
Stefan F?rster     http://www.incertum.net/     Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9

From drew.tenenholz at isid.org  Wed May 27 00:13:14 2009
From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 18:13:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Renaming a List
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

At 12:01 PM -0700 5/26/09, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>You can replace the first 3 'mv' with 'cp -a' if you'd rather.

Thanks, I've got the work done now.

I'm on Max OS X, so the command for copying turns out to be:
cp -ipRV  for:
i  allow user input in cases of duplicate file names
p to preserve user/group/ACL permissions, creation & modification timestamps
R to traverse the directory & subtrees
v for verbose mode to tell me what it is copying

When copying the archives, I might almost have preferred NOT to get a 
listing to every file copied, but it didn't take all that long.  The 
same can be said of the Mailman command:

bin/arch --wipe

where I think I might have also wanted to add the -quiet option as well.

I also ran bin/genaliases as Ron King suggested.  I didn't use his 
very clear bash script, since I had to figure out all of my Apple 
paths anyway, but I did use it as a step-by-step guide in parallel to 
the steps listed in FAQ 4.70.

Right now, all seems good, I have set the oldlist to emergency 
moderation until the posters of this announce-only list catch up to 
the change.  We'll go through various tests before completely 
removing the list.

-- Drew Tenenholz

From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net  Wed May 27 03:37:33 2009
From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 20:37:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dealing with spam
In-Reply-To: <4A1BF55F.9000606@dotrose.com>
References: <4A1BF55F.9000606@dotrose.com>
Message-ID: <4A1C995D.6030400@riverviewtech.net>

On 5/26/2009 8:57 AM, Henry Hartley wrote:
> 1) What is the best practice approach to dealing with these messages? I 
> have simply been discarding them. If I reject them, will that send a 
> response back that might make an automated sender drop my list address 
> from their list as a non-working address? Or is that wishful thinking?

These issues are mostly larger than Mailman and more SMTP related than 
any thing else.  As such, traditional SMTP anti-spam solutions are 
probably the best fix here.

The first things that come to mind are

  - SPF
  - Domain Keys
  - Something like Sendmail's "protected recipients" or comparable.

> 2) Is there some way to automatically reject or discard mail with 
> implicit destination rather than holding it for moderation? The users of 
> this particular list do not (ever) intentionally use an implicit 
> destination so I wouldn't mind just automating that. There doesn't seem 
> to be a setting on the Recipient Filters page of Privacy options.

I don't think that Mailman currently does this, but I'm betting that 
others can come up with a way to make it do it.



Grant. . . .

From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Wed May 27 06:31:27 2009
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 23:31:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about the "Group mismatch error" when
	updating mailman service
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <87622E07-16C8-4515-9E8A-910998D5E75C@goldmark.org>

On May 26, 2009, at 7:12 AM, Sean wrote:

> Currently, I had updated my mailman server to a new machine.
> (mailman-2.1.5_2 -> mailman-2.1.9_5)
> My server is FreeBSD 7.0, Postfix + mailman 2.1.9_5

> Now I create a new list by bin/newlist, but it got a error when I  
> send mail
> to this new list which is
> " "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post eos". Command output: Group  
> mismatch
>   error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as  
> group
>   "nobody", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as  
> group
>   "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group
>   "nobody", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
>   `--with-mail-gid=mailman'."
>
> So I reinstall mailman server with --with-mail-gid=mailman setting.
> Then the new list can work correctly.

Since you appear to be building mailman from ports/mail/mailman, do a

  cd /usr/ports/mail/mailman
  make config

And then set the MTA option to POSTFIX,

Then just

   make install

or use portupgrade or your favorite ports management tool.

Setting the POSTFIX option for building the port will build mailman  
correctly to run with the correct owner and group settings needed for  
postfix FreeBSD.

> But the other question happened. "Group mismatch error" happeded on  
> the old
> lists which is
> " "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post xip". Command output: Group  
> mismatch
>   error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as  
> group
>   "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script  
> as group
>   "nobody".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group
>   "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
>   `--with-mail-gid=nobody' "

After you have reinstalled mailman with all the proper group and  
ownerships (the port Makefile really does do it correctly), then in

  cd /usr/local/mailman/bin
  ./check_perms
  ./check_perms -f

Cheers,

-j


-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed May 27 09:00:53 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 16:00:53 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Dealing with spam
In-Reply-To: <4A1BF55F.9000606@dotrose.com>
References: <4A1BF55F.9000606@dotrose.com>
Message-ID: <87octfc9ne.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Henry Hartley writes:

 > 1) What is the best practice approach to dealing with these messages? I 
 > have simply been discarding them. If I reject them, will that send a 
 > response back that might make an automated sender drop my list address 
 > from their list as a non-working address? Or is that wishful thinking?

It's mostly wishful thinking.  While there are "high-quality" spammers
who cull their lists of non-existent addresses, they do this offline,
not based on the results of a spew.  Getting thousands or millions of
rejections would slow down their spew.

 > 2) Is there some way to automatically reject or discard mail with 
 > implicit destination rather than holding it for moderation?

You could have a second to last rule in Privacy > Spam Filters that
*accepts* if your list name is present in a To or CC header, and a
last rule that *discards* everything (I think that a regexp that
consists of a single dot "." can be used for this purpose).

I agree there should be an easier way to do this, but I don't know
what it is.

From D.Q.A.Theobald at swansea.ac.uk  Wed May 27 09:38:08 2009
From: D.Q.A.Theobald at swansea.ac.uk (Damion Theobald)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 08:38:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Sibling lists
Message-ID: <000001c9de9e$14d237d0$3e76a770$@q.a.theobald@swansea.ac.uk>

Hi,

 

Could anyone be of help in the setting up of mailman sibling lists.

 

I currently have the below setup

 

Parent list       Sibling list

Staff             staff-info

                  All-info

 

Non-staff         non-staff-info

                  All-info

 

This all works correctly except when a e-mail is sent to both the staff and
non-staff parent lists. It results in the people on 'All-info' list
receiving duplicate e-mails. I have tried adding the staff list into the
regular_exclude_lists in the 'non-staff' list but this does not work

 

Any help would be most appreciated.

 

Regards

Damion            

 


From jfrizzel at bates.edu  Tue May 26 23:23:58 2009
From: jfrizzel at bates.edu (Jane Frizzell)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 17:23:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will Mailman inform a sender of a bounced message
	that it was approved?
Message-ID: <4A1C5DEE.7090801@bates.edu>

Hello,
Is there a feature in Mail Man that would notify the sender of a 
message, when it bounces for moderation, to be informed when it is 
cleared by the moderator?  This person is not a member of the list so 
could not tell if it is eventually delivered.

Thanks.  Jane.

-- 
Jane Frizzell		Network Services Administrator
Bates College Information and Library Services
jfrizzel at bates.edu	786-6457	110 Russell St


From mailman-owner at rx7-world.net  Wed May 27 19:07:02 2009
From: mailman-owner at rx7-world.net (John)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 10:07:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! "Stuck Messages"
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A1D7336.9020807@rx7-world.net>

I have a similar problem... I use a Virtual Dedicated server to host several
domains with a number of Mailman lists on them. Every so often the traffic on
the Mailman lists drops to a trickle or stops. Bounce volume and regular email
is usually unaffected. I've given up trying to debug it, I just reboot the
server and the flood-gates open. Sometimes the easiest solution/work-around is
brute force...  :-/

John


From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Wed May 27 20:23:58 2009
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 18:23:58 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] my mailman has been hacked !!
Message-ID: 


HELP!!

 

one of my lists has been hacked.. all members are moderated, except my own email address (my at email.com) which I use to post to the list ..

 

someone sent from my address to the list and all my subscribers has recieved a damn virus as an attachment!!  but the 'From' name is not me, which means that the sender didn't use my email to send but used a kind of open-relayed server or something .. 

 

please help what should I do ???

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out!
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009

From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Wed May 27 23:43:44 2009
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 16:43:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] my mailman has been hacked !!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On May 27, 2009, at 1:23 PM, Khalil Abbas wrote:

> all members are moderated, except my own email address  
> (my at email.com) which I use to post to the list ..

> someone sent from my address


> the 'From' name is not me,

Please clarify.  Did the From line contain your email address (my at email.com 
) or not?  You seem to be saying two different things.

If, as I suspect, someone is merely forging your address to post to  
the list, there are two things that you can do (I would recommend that  
you do (1) as an immediate and temporary measure, until you can get  
(2) in place).

(1) Moderate even your own postings, so that your list moderator  
password is required to post, even if "from" your own address.

(2) Improve the spam/virus filtering on your mailserver.  A forged  
message from an open relay containing a virus should have been stopped  
by your mail system long before it reached mailman.

Cheers,

-j



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Thu May 28 01:18:20 2009
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 08:18:20 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Sibling lists
In-Reply-To: <000001c9de9e$14d237d0$3e76a770$@q.a.theobald@swansea.ac.uk>
References: <000001c9de9e$14d237d0$3e76a770$@q.a.theobald@swansea.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <4A1DCA3C.4040508@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

> I currently have the below setup
> 
> Parent list       Sibling list
> 
> Staff             staff-info
> 
>                   All-info
> 
>  
> 
> Non-staff         non-staff-info
> 
>                   All-info
> 
> This all works correctly except when a e-mail is sent to both the staff and
> non-staff parent lists. It results in the people on 'All-info' list
> receiving duplicate e-mails. I have tried adding the staff list into the
> regular_exclude_lists in the 'non-staff' list but this does not work

Exclude/include is done if the list address appears explicitly on the
To:/Cc: headers.  You should write 'staff-info' and 'non-staff-info' in
the regular_exclude_lists of 'All-info' and send a message
'To:staff-info,non-staff-info,All-info' to avoid duplicates.



-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 28 01:39:28 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 16:39:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] my mailman has been hacked !!
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:

>On May 27, 2009, at 1:23 PM, Khalil Abbas wrote:
>
>> all members are moderated, except my own email address  
>> (my at email.com) which I use to post to the list ..
>
>> someone sent from my address
>
>
>> the 'From' name is not me,
>
>Please clarify.  Did the From line contain your email address (my at email.com 
>) or not?  You seem to be saying two different things.
>
>If, as I suspect, someone is merely forging your address to post to  
>the list, there are two things that you can do (I would recommend that  
>you do (1) as an immediate and temporary measure, until you can get  
>(2) in place).
>
>(1) Moderate even your own postings, so that your list moderator  
>password is required to post, even if "from" your own address.
>
>(2) Improve the spam/virus filtering on your mailserver.  A forged  
>message from an open relay containing a virus should have been stopped  
>by your mail system long before it reached mailman.


Two comments in addition to the above good advice.

1) Almost anyone can spoof your address in the From: of an email. This
does not require an open relay server or anything fancy. Almost any
MUA can do it.

2) That is why for announce lists we recommend moderating everyone and
if you want to avoid moderation when posting, use an Approved: header
to bypass moderation. See the FAQs at 
and .

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu May 28 05:35:49 2009
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 22:35:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will Mailman inform a sender of a bounced
 message that it was approved?
In-Reply-To: <4A1C5DEE.7090801@bates.edu>
References: <4A1C5DEE.7090801@bates.edu>
Message-ID: <4A1E0695.9020901@shub-internet.org>

on 5/26/09 4:23 PM, Jane Frizzell said:

> Is there a feature in Mail Man that would notify the sender of a 
> message, when it bounces for moderation, to be informed when it is 
> cleared by the moderator?  This person is not a member of the list so 
> could not tell if it is eventually delivered.

The standard version of Mailman can be configured to inform the sender 
that their message is being held for moderation, but there is no method 
I know of to configure it to notify the sender when the message has been 
released.

I don't know what kind of source-code level modifications might be 
necessary to make that happen.

-- 
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

From dap1 at bellsouth.net  Wed May 27 22:29:42 2009
From: dap1 at bellsouth.net (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 16:29:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Odd Behavior
Message-ID: <4A1DA2B6.8010801@bellsouth.net>

I'm not sure this is really a Mailman issue but at this point, I don't
know where else to start. The problem stems from email to the root user.
I have an alias set (postfix) to send mail for root to my administrator
address. If it matters this address is in a different domain so the form
of the alias is administrator at myotherdomain.com. Also, FWIW, this seems
to have started when I upgraded from Mandriva 2007 to 2008.2.

What is happening, is that mail to root is somehow being routed through
Mailman. Each time something is sent to root, the following error email
is generated:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the mail system at host home.mydomain.com.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.

                   The mail system

<"mailman-loop:/var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox"@home.mydomain.com>
    (expanded from ): unknown user:
    "mailman-loop:/var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox"

<"mailman:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"@home.mydomain.com>
    (expanded from ): unknown user:
    "mailman:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"

<"mailman-admin:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin
    mailman"@home.mydomain.com> (expanded from ): unknown user:
    "mailman-admin:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"

<"mailman-bounces:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces
    mailman"@home.mydomain.com> (expanded from ): unknown user:
    "mailman-bounces:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"

<"mailman-confirm:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm
    mailman"@home.mydomain.com> (expanded from ): unknown user:
    "mailman-confirm:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"

<"mailman-join:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"@home.mydomain.com>
    (expanded from ): unknown user:
    "mailman-join:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"

<"mailman-leave:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave
    mailman"@home.mydomain.com> (expanded from ): unknown user:
    "mailman-leave:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"

<"mailman-owner:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner
    mailman"@home.mydomain.com> (expanded from ): unknown user:
    "mailman-owner:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"

<"mailman-request:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request
    mailman"@home.mydomain.com> (expanded from ): unknown user:
    "mailman-request:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"

<"mailman-subscribe:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe
    mailman"@home.mydomain.com> (expanded from ): unknown user:
    "mailman-subscribe:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"

<"mailman-unsubscribe:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe
    mailman"@home.mydomain.com> (expanded from ): unknown user:
    "mailman-unsubscribe:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"

.
.
.

Reporting-MTA: dns; home.mydomain.com
X-Postfix-Queue-ID: C0B9C85073
X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; root at home.mydomain.com
Arrival-Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 04:11:19 -0400 (EDT)

Final-Recipient: rfc822; "mailman-loop:/var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox"@home.mydomain.com
Original-Recipient: rfc822; root
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; unknown user:
    "mailman-loop:/var/lib/mailman/data/owner-bounces.mbox"

Final-Recipient: rfc822; "mailman:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"@home.mydomain.com
Original-Recipient: rfc822; root
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; unknown user:
    "mailman:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"

Final-Recipient: rfc822; "mailman-admin:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"@home.mydomain.com
Original-Recipient: rfc822; root
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; unknown user:
    "mailman-admin:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"

Final-Recipient: rfc822; "mailman-bounces:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"@home.mydomain.com
Original-Recipient: rfc822; root
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; unknown user:
    "mailman-bounces:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"

Final-Recipient: rfc822; "mailman-confirm:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"@home.mydomain.com
Original-Recipient: rfc822; root
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; unknown user:
    "mailman-confirm:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"

Final-Recipient: rfc822; "mailman-join:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"@home.mydomain.com
Original-Recipient: rfc822; root
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; unknown user:
    "mailman-join:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"

Final-Recipient: rfc822; "mailman-leave:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"@home.mydomain.com
Original-Recipient: rfc822; root
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; unknown user:
    "mailman-leave:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"

Final-Recipient: rfc822; "mailman-owner:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"@home.mydomain.com
Original-Recipient: rfc822; root
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; unknown user:
    "mailman-owner:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"

Final-Recipient: rfc822; "mailman-request:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"@home.mydomain.com
Original-Recipient: rfc822; root
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; unknown user:
    "mailman-request:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"

Final-Recipient: rfc822; "mailman-subscribe:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"@home.mydomain.com
Original-Recipient: rfc822; root
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; unknown user:
    "mailman-subscribe:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"

Final-Recipient: rfc822; "mailman-unsubscribe:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"@home.mydomain.com
Original-Recipient: rfc822; root
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; unknown user:
    "mailman-unsubscribe:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"

.
.
.
Subject:
Cron  nice -n 19 run-parts --report /etc/cron.daily
From:
root at home.mydomain.com (Cron Daemon)
Date:
Mon, 25 May 2009 04:02:01 -0400 (EDT)

To:
root at home.mydomain.com


/etc/cron.daily/msec:
diff: /var/log/security/chkrootkit.today: No such file or directory


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This continues for every mailing list on the host. I should note that
all the mailing lists seem to otherwise be functioning properly. Is
there something in my Mailman configuration that can intercept all mail
(outgoing?) and try to process it or is something else going on? Any
help trying to figure this out would be greatly appreciated.


From feescude at cs.ucsd.edu  Thu May 28 01:11:37 2009
From: feescude at cs.ucsd.edu (Ferdinand Escudero)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 16:11:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-Member filter Notations
Message-ID: <4A1DC8A9.3030207@cs.ucsd.edu>

In Mailman 2.1.5
Under Privacy Options|Senders Filters  non-member filters.. are regular 
expressions case sensitive ?

-- 
Ferdinand Escudero
Systems Administrator
University of California San Diego
Computer Science and Engineering
Phone:858 822-6561
email:ferdie at ucsd.edu


From rob.macgregor at gmail.com  Wed May 27 20:41:15 2009
From: rob.macgregor at gmail.com (Rob MacGregor)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 19:41:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] my mailman has been hacked !!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <43ea8d070905271141g7aa02203x20f4259effba75b8@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 19:23, Khalil Abbas  wrote:
>
> HELP!!
>
> one of my lists has been hacked.. all members are moderated, except my own email address (my at email.com) which I use to post to the list ..
>
> someone sent from my address to the list and all my subscribers has recieved a damn virus as an attachment!! ?but the 'From' name is not me, which means that the sender didn't use my email to send but used a kind of open-relayed server or something ..
>
> please help what should I do ???

Look at the headers and work out what really happened.

Forging email addresses is trivial.  It is the work of a few seconds
to send an email with somebody else's email address.  You can mitigate
somewhat by using SPF and DKIM, but it does require that everybody
checks your SPF and DKIM records - not everybody does.

-- 
                 Please keep list traffic on the list.

Rob MacGregor
      Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he
        doesn't become a monster.                  Friedrich Nietzsche

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Thu May 28 14:40:56 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 13:40:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will Mailman inform a sender of a bounced
	message that it was approved?
In-Reply-To: <4A1E0695.9020901@shub-internet.org>
References: <4A1C5DEE.7090801@bates.edu> <4A1E0695.9020901@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <20090528124055.GB1330@amyl.org.uk>

On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 10:35:49PM -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:
> on 5/26/09 4:23 PM, Jane Frizzell said:
> 
> >Is there a feature in Mail Man that would notify the sender of a 
> >message, when it bounces for moderation, to be informed when it is 
> >cleared by the moderator?  This person is not a member of the list so 
> >could not tell if it is eventually delivered.
> 
> The standard version of Mailman can be configured to inform the sender 
> that their message is being held for moderation, but there is no method 
> I know of to configure it to notify the sender when the message has been 
> released.

My view is that if people are posting to the list, they should
subscribe to the list.

(yes, I am miserable.)

Ergo, I'd not see any need for code modification.

-- 
``Mr. Mandelson said it was an historic day when the politicians
  took charge of their own affairs.'' (sic.) (News report)

From rclemings at gmail.com  Thu May 28 16:16:59 2009
From: rclemings at gmail.com (Russell Clemings)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 07:16:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] my mailman has been hacked !!
Message-ID: 

In addition to the earlier suggestions:

1. Turn on content filtering -- the default settings should remove most if
not all dangerous attachments.

2. Under general settings, set the maximum message size as small as
possible. This not only blocks a lot of viruses but on a discussion list it
prevents people from quoting an entire digest when replaying.

But for broadcast lists, the suggestion about moderating everybody should do
the trick. I just keep emergency moderation (also on general options page)
on at all times for those lists.

rac



> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Rob MacGregor 
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 19:41:15 +0100
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] my mailman has been hacked !!
> On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 19:23, Khalil Abbas  wrote:
> >
> > HELP!!
> >
> > one of my lists has been hacked.. all members are moderated, except my
> own email address (my at email.com) which I use to post to the list ..
> >
> > someone sent from my address to the list and all my subscribers has
> recieved a damn virus as an attachment!!  but the 'From' name is not me,
> which means that the sender didn't use my email to send but used a kind of
> open-relayed server or something ..
> >
> > please help what should I do ???
>
> Look at the headers and work out what really happened.
>
> Forging email addresses is trivial.  It is the work of a few seconds
> to send an email with somebody else's email address.  You can mitigate
> somewhat by using SPF and DKIM, but it does require that everybody
> checks your SPF and DKIM records - not everybody does.
>
> --
>                 Please keep list traffic on the list.
>
> Rob MacGregor
>      Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he
>        doesn't become a monster.                  Friedrich Nietzsche
>
>
>

From fermat at rigel.deusto.es  Thu May 28 15:59:14 2009
From: fermat at rigel.deusto.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Alvaro_Ur=EDa?=)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 15:59:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] i18n: admin/mod environment vs. user environment
Message-ID: <4A1E98B2.6040906@rigel.deusto.es>

Hi!

Today, I've run across a curious issue with Mailman and its i18n.

The story goes like this:
1) We have a list where you can choose between 3 languages: A, B and C

2) The list is configured to use language A as default, and has a
max_message_size = 10kB

3) One subscriber uses language B and sends a message bigger than 10kB,
so it gets held (and gets a notice translated to language B)

4) Moderator gets a notice in language A (the default of the list, as I
said), but the reason is translated into language B (user's default).
This reason is also in language B in the Web interface (admindb).

Is that how it should work? Shouldn't be all the information (including
the reason) for the moderator in the default language of the list (in
this case, in language A)?

Thank you.

Regards,
  Alvaro.

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From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 28 16:28:04 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 07:28:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-Member filter Notations
In-Reply-To: <4A1DC8A9.3030207@cs.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: 

Ferdinand Escudero wrote:

>In Mailman 2.1.5
>Under Privacy Options|Senders Filters  non-member filters.. are regular 
>expressions case sensitive ?


No. They are compiled with re.IGNORECASE.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 28 17:43:25 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 08:43:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will Mailman inform a sender of a
	bouncedmessage that it was approved?
In-Reply-To: <20090528124055.GB1330@amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: 

Adam McGreggor wrote:

>On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 10:35:49PM -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:
>> on 5/26/09 4:23 PM, Jane Frizzell said:
>> 
>> >Is there a feature in Mail Man that would notify the sender of a 
>> >message, when it bounces for moderation, to be informed when it is 
>> >cleared by the moderator?  This person is not a member of the list so 
>> >could not tell if it is eventually delivered.
>> 
>> The standard version of Mailman can be configured to inform the sender 
>> that their message is being held for moderation, but there is no method 
>> I know of to configure it to notify the sender when the message has been 
>> released.
>
>My view is that if people are posting to the list, they should
>subscribe to the list.


It's not often that simple. Sometimes people will cross post or Cc: non
list members, and then a non-member replies to all including your list.

What I do on lists I moderate is I never approve non-member posts, but
sometimes, if a post is relevant, I will forward the message from the
"held message" notice to the list. I may edit the forwarded message.
If I think it is important that the sender know her message went to
the list, I Cc: her on the forward, and depending on circumstances, I
may add a Reply-To: to the sender.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From admin2 at enabled.com  Thu May 28 18:23:29 2009
From: admin2 at enabled.com (admin2)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 09:23:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating from sendmail site to postfix site
Message-ID: <4A1EBA81.4070305@enabled.com>

Hi there,

I am migrating mailman from a freebsd server running sendmail to an 
ubuntu server running postfix.  Could somebody please send me a decent 
link that explains the postfix/mailman configuration?

I am getting relaying denied messages on the postfix side.

Cheers,

Noah

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 28 18:23:45 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 09:23:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Odd Behavior
In-Reply-To: <4A1DA2B6.8010801@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: 

Dennis Putnam wrote:

>I'm not sure this is really a Mailman issue but at this point, I don't
>know where else to start. The problem stems from email to the root user.
>I have an alias set (postfix) to send mail for root to my administrator
>address. If it matters this address is in a different domain so the form
>of the alias is administrator at myotherdomain.com. Also, FWIW, this seems
>to have started when I upgraded from Mandriva 2007 to 2008.2.
>
>What is happening, is that mail to root is somehow being routed through
>Mailman. Each time something is sent to root, the following error email
>is generated:

[...]

>Final-Recipient: rfc822; "mailman:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"@home.mydomain.com
>Original-Recipient: rfc822; root
>Action: failed
>Status: 5.1.1
>Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; unknown user:
>    "mailman:|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"

[...]


This seems to be a Postfix configuration issue. I don't know what's
actually happening, but somehow Postfix is taking the entire set of
Mailman aliases as forwarding addresses for this mail.

Somehow the 'root' address is expanding into XXX at home.mydomain.com
where XXX is each entire line from the Mailman aliases file.


>This continues for every mailing list on the host. I should note that
>all the mailing lists seem to otherwise be functioning properly. Is
>there something in my Mailman configuration that can intercept all mail
>(outgoing?) and try to process it or is something else going on? Any
>help trying to figure this out would be greatly appreciated.


This has nothing to do with Mailman. It is Postfix. Somehow Postfix is
expanding the 'root' address by taking Mailmans entire data/aliases
(or aliases.db) as a list of addresses in the home.mydomain.com domain.

This is really OT for this list, but if you post the output from
"postconf -n" (or send it to me off list) I'll look.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 28 18:44:34 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 09:44:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating from sendmail site to postfix site
In-Reply-To: <4A1EBA81.4070305@enabled.com>
Message-ID: 

admin2 wrote:
>
>I am migrating mailman from a freebsd server running sendmail to an 
>ubuntu server running postfix.  Could somebody please send me a decent 
>link that explains the postfix/mailman configuration?
>
>I am getting relaying denied messages on the postfix side.

Outgoing or incoming?

Is your sending IP in my_networks?

For Mailman specific information see
.

For the rest see .

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From admin2 at enabled.com  Thu May 28 19:11:07 2009
From: admin2 at enabled.com (admin2)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 10:11:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating from sendmail site to postfix site
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A1EC5AB.9010204@enabled.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> admin2 wrote:
>> I am migrating mailman from a freebsd server running sendmail to an 
>> ubuntu server running postfix.  Could somebody please send me a decent 
>> link that explains the postfix/mailman configuration?
>>
>> I am getting relaying denied messages on the postfix side.
> 
> Outgoing or incoming?
> 
> Is your sending IP in my_networks?
> 
> For Mailman specific information see
> .
> 
> For the rest see .
> 

Mark,

I am getting mail loops with postfix. here is my configuration.  I dont 
have @domain.com @mail.domain.com configured in my /etc/postfix/virtual 
file.  what do I do in the case of the configuration below?


myorigin = /etc/mailname
myhostname = domain.com
mydomain = domain.com
mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain $mydomain

root at domain:/etc/postfix# cat /etc/mailname
domain.com

# cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1     localhost localhost.localdomain
128.110.253.66     domain.com

# hostname
domain.com




From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 28 19:28:21 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 10:28:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] i18n: admin/mod environment vs. user environment
In-Reply-To: <4A1E98B2.6040906@rigel.deusto.es>
Message-ID: 

Alvaro Ur?a wrote:
>
>Today, I've run across a curious issue with Mailman and its i18n.
>
>The story goes like this:
>1) We have a list where you can choose between 3 languages: A, B and C
>
>2) The list is configured to use language A as default, and has a
>max_message_size = 10kB
>
>3) One subscriber uses language B and sends a message bigger than 10kB,
>so it gets held (and gets a notice translated to language B)
>
>4) Moderator gets a notice in language A (the default of the list, as I
>said), but the reason is translated into language B (user's default).
>This reason is also in language B in the Web interface (admindb).
>
>Is that how it should work? Shouldn't be all the information (including
>the reason) for the moderator in the default language of the list (in
>this case, in language A)?


Yes. This appears to be a bug. The code looks like it's trying to do
the right thing, but it fails. I'll see if I can fix it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 28 19:49:10 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 10:49:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating from sendmail site to postfix site
In-Reply-To: <4A1EC5AB.9010204@enabled.com>
Message-ID: 

admin2 
>
>I am getting mail loops with postfix.


Incoming or outgoing? Can you send mail from the box with the sendmail
command?

What specifically are the postfix log entries for the looping mail?

>here is my configuration.  I dont 
>have @domain.com @mail.domain.com configured in my /etc/postfix/virtual 
>file.  what do I do in the case of the configuration below?
>
>
>myorigin = /etc/mailname

This setting is a domain name, not a file.

>myhostname = domain.com
>mydomain = domain.com
>mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain $mydomain
>
>root at domain:/etc/postfix# cat /etc/mailname
>domain.com
>
># cat /etc/hosts
>127.0.0.1     localhost localhost.localdomain
>128.110.253.66     domain.com
>
># hostname
>domain.com


Did you look at  and
the subordinate ?

That's what you need to do for Mailman/Postfix integration for
automatic maintenance of list aliases. If you want to do aliases
manually like sendmail, You don't need to do anything to a working
Postfix config except maybe

recipient_delimiter = +

for Mailman's VERP like options.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From submit at zuka.net  Thu May 28 20:43:38 2009
From: submit at zuka.net (Dave Filchak)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 14:43:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors on mailman startup
Message-ID: <4A1EDB5A.7020201@zuka.net>

My ISP had a major power outage a while back and I realized that mailman 
was no longer running. When trying to start it again, I am getting the 
following errors:

/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start
Starting Mailman's master qrunner.
[root at ebony ~]# Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
    qrunner.run()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
    filecnt = self._oneloop()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in 
dequeue
    fp = open(filename)
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
'/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/out/1243356180.407516+c6c334592170b450a79140940b2a3ba17d3b962a.pck'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
    qrunner.run()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
    filecnt = self._oneloop()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in 
dequeue
    fp = open(filename)
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
'/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/out/1243535478.4113281+cdfdfd56b6ebc1b658ed9c772038562cb6090a8f.pck'

When we tried to send a message to the list ... it does not get sent. 
Anyone have any idea about what might be going on?

Dave

From admin2 at enabled.com  Thu May 28 21:15:16 2009
From: admin2 at enabled.com (admin2)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 12:15:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] icons not seen
Message-ID: <4A1EE2C4.2010101@enabled.com>

Okay I give up.  how can I figure out why my icons are not seen via apache.

# ls -l /var/lib/mailman/icons/
total 24
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  945 Mar  6  2008 PythonPowered.png
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3049 Mar  6  2008 gnu-head-tiny.jpg
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6150 Mar  6  2008 mailman-large.jpg
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2022 Mar  6  2008 mailman.jpg
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  281 Mar  6  2008 mm-icon.png


Here is the config:


         ServerAdmin webmaster at domain.com
         ServerName lists.domain.com
         ServerAlias www.lists.domain.com w.lists.domain.com
         ServerAlias ww.lists.domain.com wwww.lists.domain.com

         DocumentRoot /var/www

         ScriptAlias /mailman /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
         Alias /pipermail /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
         Alias /icons /var/lib/mailman/icons/

         Redirect permanent /index.html 
http://lists.domain.com/mailman/listinfo/

         RewriteEngine on
         RewriteCond %{REQUEST_METHOD} !^(GET|POST|HEAD)$
         RewriteRule .* - [F]

         ErrorLog /var/log/apache2/error.log

         # Possible values include: debug, info, notice, warn, error, crit,
         # alert, emerg.
         LogLevel warn

         CustomLog /var/log/apache2/access.log combined
         ServerSignature On

     Alias /doc/ "/usr/share/doc/"
     
         Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
         AllowOverride None
         Order deny,allow
         Deny from all
         Allow from 127.0.0.0/255.0.0.0 ::1/128
     



From terri at zone12.com  Thu May 28 21:19:33 2009
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 15:19:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will Mailman inform a sender of a
 bounced	message that it was approved?
In-Reply-To: <20090528124055.GB1330@amyl.org.uk>
References: <4A1C5DEE.7090801@bates.edu> <4A1E0695.9020901@shub-internet.org>
	<20090528124055.GB1330@amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <4A1EE3C5.8090102@zone12.com>

Adam McGreggor wrote:
> On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 10:35:49PM -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:
>> on 5/26/09 4:23 PM, Jane Frizzell said:
>>> Is there a feature in Mail Man that would notify the sender of a 
>>> message, when it bounces for moderation, to be informed when it is 
>>> cleared by the moderator?  This person is not a member of the list so 
>>> could not tell if it is eventually delivered.
>> The standard version of Mailman can be configured to inform the sender 
>> that their message is being held for moderation, but there is no method 
>> I know of to configure it to notify the sender when the message has been 
>> released.
> 
> My view is that if people are posting to the list, they should
> subscribe to the list.

There are cases where posters have no need or desire to subscribe to the 
list.  For example, I moderate a job posting list where we screen 
postings for our members.  Most people posting jobs aren't seeking them! 
  It'd be a bit silly to expect hr/recruiting folk to subscribe.

In our case, I believe they can just check when their post went through 
because the archives are public, but I'm sure they'd prefer the email 
rather than having to check back a day later!

  Terri

From admin2 at enabled.com  Thu May 28 21:28:34 2009
From: admin2 at enabled.com (admin2)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 12:28:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admin link wrong when migrating to new server
Message-ID: <4A1EE5E2.4070100@enabled.com>

Hi there,

I am migrating from a freeBSD machine to an ubuntu machine and the ports 
have different default locations and so on.

on the ubuntu machine I find that mailman resides in

/var/lib/mailman

the cgi-bin is /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin

the link from the main page to the admin page is messed up for every 
virtual site.  Is there a configuration place to fix this or what is the 
appropriate way to fix the problem?

so if I place the URL  http://lists.domain.com
in my browser I am redirected to http://lists.domain.com/mailman/listinfo/

then I click the "the list admin overview page" and get sent to the 
wrong link that results in a page not found error:
http://lists.domain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin

when the link should be:
http://lists.domain.com/mailman/admin

help please.

Cheers,

Noah

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 28 22:51:26 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 13:51:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors on mailman startup
In-Reply-To: <4A1EDB5A.7020201@zuka.net>
Message-ID: 

Dave Filchak wrote:

>My ISP had a major power outage a while back and I realized that mailman 
>was no longer running. When trying to start it again, I am getting the 
>following errors:
>
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start
>Starting Mailman's master qrunner.
>[root at ebony ~]# Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
>    qrunner.run()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
>    filecnt = self._oneloop()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
>    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in 
>dequeue
>    fp = open(filename)
>IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
>'/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/out/1243356180.407516+c6c334592170b450a79140940b2a3ba17d3b962a.pck'
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
>    qrunner.run()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
>    filecnt = self._oneloop()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
>    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in 
>dequeue
>    fp = open(filename)
>IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
>'/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/out/1243535478.4113281+cdfdfd56b6ebc1b658ed9c772038562cb6090a8f.pck'
>
>When we tried to send a message to the list ... it does not get sent. 
>Anyone have any idea about what might be going on?


See the FAQ at . If you go through the
steps in that FAQ and still have a problem, see
.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 28 23:11:14 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 14:11:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admin link wrong when migrating to new server
In-Reply-To: <4A1EE5E2.4070100@enabled.com>
Message-ID: 

admin2 wrote:
>
>so if I place the URL  http://lists.domain.com
>in my browser I am redirected to http://lists.domain.com/mailman/listinfo/
>
>then I click the "the list admin overview page" and get sent to the 
>wrong link that results in a page not found error:
>http://lists.domain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin
>
>when the link should be:
>http://lists.domain.com/mailman/admin


The scenario you describe indicates you may have

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/cgi-bin/'

in mm_cfg.py. Make sure that this is defined as

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'


in Defaults.py and not overridden in mm_cfg.py (or just put the latter
definition in mm_cfg.py).

If you also have problems with links on the list's admin pages, you
will need to fix the individual lists with fix_url after correcting
the configuration. See the FAQ at .

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu May 28 23:20:43 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 14:20:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] icons not seen
In-Reply-To: <4A1EE2C4.2010101@enabled.com>
Message-ID: 

admin2 wrote:

>Okay I give up.  how can I figure out why my icons are not seen via apache.
>
># ls -l /var/lib/mailman/icons/
>total 24
>-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  945 Mar  6  2008 PythonPowered.png
>-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3049 Mar  6  2008 gnu-head-tiny.jpg
>-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6150 Mar  6  2008 mailman-large.jpg
>-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2022 Mar  6  2008 mailman.jpg
>-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  281 Mar  6  2008 mm-icon.png
>
>
>Here is the config:
>
>
>         ServerAdmin webmaster at domain.com
>         ServerName lists.domain.com
>         ServerAlias www.lists.domain.com w.lists.domain.com
>         ServerAlias ww.lists.domain.com wwww.lists.domain.com
>
>         DocumentRoot /var/www
>
>         ScriptAlias /mailman /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
>         Alias /pipermail /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
>         Alias /icons /var/lib/mailman/icons/


Normally, Alias and ScriptAlias entries should have either both entries
or neither entry terminated with a slash. E.g.

         Alias /icons /var/lib/mailman/icons
or
         Alias /icons/ /var/lib/mailman/icons/

but I don't think that's the actual problem here. Do you have something
other than

IMAGE_LOGOS = '/icons/'

in mm_cfg.py?

Also, while it isn't necessary, a common way to do this is do eliminate
the Alias for icons and just copy the Mailman icons to (in your case)
/var/www/icons/


[...]

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From submit at zuka.net  Fri May 29 01:43:31 2009
From: submit at zuka.net (Dave Filchak)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 19:43:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors on mailman startup
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A1F21A3.4060408@zuka.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Dave Filchak wrote:
>
>   
>> My ISP had a major power outage a while back and I realized that mailman 
>> was no longer running. When trying to start it again, I am getting the 
>> following errors:
>>
>> /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start
>> Starting Mailman's master qrunner.
>> [root at ebony ~]# Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
>>    main()
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
>>    qrunner.run()
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
>>    filecnt = self._oneloop()
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
>>    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in 
>> dequeue
>>    fp = open(filename)
>> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
>> '/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/out/1243356180.407516+c6c334592170b450a79140940b2a3ba17d3b962a.pck'
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
>>    main()
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
>>    qrunner.run()
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
>>    filecnt = self._oneloop()
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
>>    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in 
>> dequeue
>>    fp = open(filename)
>> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
>> '/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/out/1243535478.4113281+cdfdfd56b6ebc1b658ed9c772038562cb6090a8f.pck'
>>
>> When we tried to send a message to the list ... it does not get sent. 
>> Anyone have any idea about what might be going on?
>>     
>
>
> See the FAQ at . If you go through the
> steps in that FAQ and still have a problem, see
> .
>
>   
Well .. this worked to get rid of the errors ... thank you. However, 
while I see no errors in the maillog, emails sent to mailman get 
delivered TO mailman but the emails are not forwarded to the list users. 
I have restarted mailman and run the cron job manually but still 
nothing. However, I tried to send an email from the command line and did 
not receive that either. I am using Sendmail with MailScanner but mail 
looks like it is being processed in the logs.

ps aux | grep sendmail gives me:

 ps aux | grep sendmail
root     16749  0.0  0.2  9128 3632 ?        S    19:24   0:00 sendmail: 
server 189.27.106.155.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br [189.27.106.155] cmd 
read                                                              
root     17070  0.0  0.1  9384 3100 ?        Ss   19:28   0:00 sendmail: 
accepting 
connections                                                                                                                 

smmsp    17074  0.0  0.1  7388 2564 ?        Ss   19:28   0:00 sendmail: 
Queue runner at 00:15:00 for /var/spool/clientmqueue                 
root     17079  0.0  0.1  7560 2680 ?        Ss   19:28   0:00 sendmail: 
Queue runner at 00:15:00 for /var/spool/mqueue      
root     17569  0.0  0.2  9864 3588 ?        S    19:39   0:00 sendmail: 
server pool-96-241-183-254.washdc.fios.verizon.net [96.241.183.254] cmd 
read                                                         
root     17633  0.0  0.0  4708  692 pts/2    R+   19:40   0:00 grep sendmail

ps aux | grep MailScanner
root     17106  0.0  1.4 27608 22028 ?       Ss   19:28   0:00 
MailScanner: master waiting for children, sleeping
root     17107  0.2  2.1 40812 32752 ?       S    19:28   0:02 
MailScanner: waiting for messages
root     17126  0.2  2.1 41020 33028 ?       S    19:28   0:02 
MailScanner: waiting for messages
root     17131  0.2  2.1 41016 33068 ?       S    19:28   0:02 
MailScanner: waiting for messages
root     17681  0.0  0.0  5104  712 pts/2    R+   19:42   0:00 grep 
MailScanner

Seems good though not sure about the line "root     17106  0.0  1.4 
27608 22028 ?       Ss   19:28   0:00 MailScanner: master waiting for 
children, sleeping"

Dave



From submit at zuka.net  Fri May 29 02:50:56 2009
From: submit at zuka.net (Dave Filchak)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 20:50:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors on mailman startup
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A1F3170.2000605@zuka.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Dave Filchak wrote:
>
>   
>> My ISP had a major power outage a while back and I realized that mailman 
>> was no longer running. When trying to start it again, I am getting the 
>> following errors:
>>
>> /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start
>> Starting Mailman's master qrunner.
>> [root at ebony ~]# Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
>>    main()
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
>>    qrunner.run()
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
>>    filecnt = self._oneloop()
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
>>    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in 
>> dequeue
>>    fp = open(filename)
>> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
>> '/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/out/1243356180.407516+c6c334592170b450a79140940b2a3ba17d3b962a.pck'
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
>>    main()
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
>>    qrunner.run()
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
>>    filecnt = self._oneloop()
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
>>    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in 
>> dequeue
>>    fp = open(filename)
>> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
>> '/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/out/1243535478.4113281+cdfdfd56b6ebc1b658ed9c772038562cb6090a8f.pck'
>>
>> When we tried to send a message to the list ... it does not get sent. 
>> Anyone have any idea about what might be going on?
>>     
>
>
> See the FAQ at . If you go through the
> steps in that FAQ and still have a problem, see
> .
>
>   
I have found the following in the smtp-failure logs:

failed with code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')

I have tons of these. I Googled this and one of the issues appears to be 
not having search my.domain in my resolv.conf file. I have added this 
but I still cannot get mailman to deliver any mail. Would really 
appreciate it if anyone has any other ideas about this.

Dave

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 29 03:12:31 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 18:12:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors on mailman startup
In-Reply-To: <4A1F3170.2000605@zuka.net>
Message-ID: 

Dave Filchak wrote:
>  
>I have found the following in the smtp-failure logs:
>
>failed with code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
>
>I have tons of these. I Googled this and one of the issues appears to be 
>not having search my.domain in my resolv.conf file. I have added this 
>but I still cannot get mailman to deliver any mail. Would really 
>appreciate it if anyone has any other ideas about this.


So the problem is that Outgoing Runner can't send mail, so all the
outgong mail gets put in the retry queue and gets periodically
retried, but continues to fail.

There are two FAQs with information about this.
 and . Thes,
together with some archived posts they link to give some information
and debugging techniques. The resolv.conf addition worked in one case,
but it is not the only thing that can cause this nor the only solution.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri May 29 03:25:40 2009
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 10:25:40 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will Mailman inform a sender of a
 bounced	message that it was approved?
In-Reply-To: <4A1EE3C5.8090102@zone12.com>
References: <4A1C5DEE.7090801@bates.edu> <4A1E0695.9020901@shub-internet.org>
	<20090528124055.GB1330@amyl.org.uk> <4A1EE3C5.8090102@zone12.com>
Message-ID: <87hbz4d7jf.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Terri Oda writes:

 > In our case, I believe they can just check when their post went through 
 > because the archives are public, but I'm sure they'd prefer the email 
 > rather than having to check back a day later!

Well, since we already have a 'metoo' option, it should not be hard to
flip the logic to 'mineonly'.

It's not obvious to me that is a good solution, but it should work
easily into 2.x.

From acornhp at yahoo.com  Thu May 28 17:14:17 2009
From: acornhp at yahoo.com (Aaron Marcavitch)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 08:14:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! "Stuck Messages"
Message-ID: <787542.57731.qm@web36804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


And that - ladies and gentlemen - did it.  Nothing like a quick hit to the side of a machine to make it act right.

Aaron

--------
http://www.marcavitch.com


--- On Wed, 5/27/09, John  wrote:

> From: John 
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Help! "Stuck Messages"
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 12:07 PM
> I have a similar problem... I use a
> Virtual Dedicated server to host several
> domains with a number of Mailman lists on them. Every so
> often the traffic on
> the Mailman lists drops to a trickle or stops. Bounce
> volume and regular email
> is usually unaffected. I've given up trying to debug it, I
> just reboot the
> server and the flood-gates open. Sometimes the easiest
> solution/work-around is
> brute force...? :-/
> 
> John
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/acornhp%40yahoo.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> 


      

From tim.park.mt at gmail.com  Thu May 28 20:21:16 2009
From: tim.park.mt at gmail.com (Timothy Park)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 13:21:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce notifications.
Message-ID: <1b7776860905281121p18064fddtccce1b9b8b90bab9@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I'm sorry in advance if I'm not understanding Mailman's bounce notification
process, but here's my issue:  I've noticed that when a message bounces,
there are no notications to list owners.  I only stumbled upon this error
when we created a mailing list for a small group of developers, and one
wasn't receiving any email due to a problem with his mail server.  I had no
idea until he told me that he wasn't receiving our messages about a week
into the project.  When I checked Mailman's bounce log
(/var/log/mailmain/bounce), the erorr was there, and his bounce score was
1.0.  Is this the normal action of Mailman's bounce system? That is, to hold
off notifying the list owner of a bounce until the bounce score passes the
defined threshold?  If so, is there any way I can force bounce errors to be
delivered?  I tried disabling bounce processing, but that seems to just
discard bounced messages without a notification.  Some of our mailing lists
are "mission critical" where one person not receiving a message could be a
big deal, so if mailman could let us know when there is a delivery failure,
that would be wonderful (we wouldn't mind the extra email).  Thanks for your
help!


Tim

From rich at edj.net  Fri May 29 00:13:50 2009
From: rich at edj.net (rich at edj.net)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 16:13:50 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No mail delivery.
Message-ID: <20090528161350.xos7ozhk0jggskc0@edj.net>

I've upgraded to the newest mailman from the fedora 10 repos. Followed
the guide for post fix integration  
 and
the subordinate 
Restarted both postfix and mailman. I can create lists but the mail
never seem to get out of the system. I get no errrors in maillog. I
see:
May 28 15:51:15 domain sendmail[8213]: n4SLoxEf008213:  
to=list2 at domain.net, ctladdr=rich at domain.net (503/503),  
delay=00:00:16, xdelay=00:00:05, mailer=relay, pri=30496,  
relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as  
3654013308C5)
May 28 15:51:15 domain amavis[7348]: (07348-17) Passed CLEAN, LOCAL  
[127.0.0.1] [97.122.225.33]  ->  
, Message-ID:  
<20090528155059.9z3w6gqbooxwg0kk at domain.net>, mail_id: yAX77SL-Up+g,  
Hits: -1.666, size: 907, queued_as: C1ED713308C4, 591 ms
May 28 15:51:15 domain postfix/smtp[8074]: 3654013308C5:  
to=, orig_to=,  
relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:10024, delay=0.69, delays=0.08/0/0.05/0.56,  
dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as C1ED713308C4)
May 28 15:51:16 domain postfix/local[8232]: C1ED713308C4:  
to=, relay=local, delay=0.57,  
delays=0.06/0.03/0/0.49, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command:  
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post list2)

and nothing in error for mailman. Where is the mail going? Regular  
email can be sent and recieved fine.


From Mario at infokeep.com.br  Thu May 28 21:29:59 2009
From: Mario at infokeep.com.br (Infokeep - Mario Sergio)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 16:29:59 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RES:  Auto confirmation
References: 
Message-ID: 

Thanks Mark.
 
I did comment these lines and works perfect. 
 
Thanks again for all help.
 
---
MSC

________________________________

From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Tue 5/26/2009 1:22 PM
To: Infokeep - Mario Sergio; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] RES: Auto confirmation



Infokeep - Mario Sergio wrote:
>
>I looked the Cleanse.py file and I found something like this:
>
>    # Some headers can be used to fish for membership
>    del msg['return-receipt-to']
>    del msg['disposition-notification-to']
>    del msg['x-confirm-reading-to']
>
>In this case, Do I need only comment this lines? Or I need to remove the
>"del" string in these lines?


If you're sure you want to do this is spite of the fact that you will
get unreliable information from it and you will annoy at least some of
your list members, you can either comment the lines or remove them
entirely.

--
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From jcolbert at value.net  Thu May 28 07:49:17 2009
From: jcolbert at value.net (John Colbert)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 22:49:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Repeating calendar entries
Message-ID: 

I want to sending emails with repeating calendar entries into a mailman
text-only community list.  Any suggestions or experience with this idea?
Seems like an obvious thing but Yahoo and Google calendars produce messages
with loads of extra stuff and I just want text that I have more control
over.

thanks in advance, John

From submit at zuka.net  Fri May 29 07:01:51 2009
From: submit at zuka.net (Dave Filchak)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 01:01:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors on mailman startup
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A1F6C3F.9030902@zuka.net>

Well .. I have ran through most of the FAQs and the debugging techniques 
listed in them and all SEEMS like it is functioning correctly. I have 
also upgraded Mailman to 2.1.8 from 2.1.6 and I still have the exact 
same problem. After upgrading, I didn't run the debugging stuff again so 
I will try it again but I honestly do not think that it will help me.

Dave

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Dave Filchak wrote:
>   
>>  
>> I have found the following in the smtp-failure logs:
>>
>> failed with code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
>>
>> I have tons of these. I Googled this and one of the issues appears to be 
>> not having search my.domain in my resolv.conf file. I have added this 
>> but I still cannot get mailman to deliver any mail. Would really 
>> appreciate it if anyone has any other ideas about this.
>>     
>
>
> So the problem is that Outgoing Runner can't send mail, so all the
> outgong mail gets put in the retry queue and gets periodically
> retried, but continues to fail.
>
> There are two FAQs with information about this.
>  and . Thes,
> together with some archived posts they link to give some information
> and debugging techniques. The resolv.conf addition worked in one case,
> but it is not the only thing that can cause this nor the only solution.
>
>   


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 29 16:18:38 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 07:18:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce notifications.
In-Reply-To: <1b7776860905281121p18064fddtccce1b9b8b90bab9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Timothy Park wrote:
>
>I'm sorry in advance if I'm not understanding Mailman's bounce notification
>process, but here's my issue:  I've noticed that when a message bounces,
>there are no notications to list owners.  I only stumbled upon this error
>when we created a mailing list for a small group of developers, and one
>wasn't receiving any email due to a problem with his mail server.  I had no
>idea until he told me that he wasn't receiving our messages about a week
>into the project.  When I checked Mailman's bounce log
>(/var/log/mailmain/bounce), the erorr was there, and his bounce score was
>1.0.  Is this the normal action of Mailman's bounce system? That is, to hold
>off notifying the list owner of a bounce until the bounce score passes the
>defined threshold?  If so, is there any way I can force bounce errors to be
>delivered?  I tried disabling bounce processing, but that seems to just
>discard bounced messages without a notification.  Some of our mailing lists
>are "mission critical" where one person not receiving a message could be a
>big deal, so if mailman could let us know when there is a delivery failure,
>that would be wonderful (we wouldn't mind the extra email).  Thanks for your
>help!


Your observations are correct and that's the way bounce processing is
designed to work.

If you want to be notified of every bounce, you have a few choices:

1) Be sure bounce_processing is Yes and bounce_notify_owner_on_disable
is Yes, and set bounce_score_threshold <= 1.0. This will cause a
notice to be sent to the list owner containing the bounce message on
the first bounce. The downside is the member's delivery will also be
disabled, and the owner will then need to re-enable it, unless the
address is truly undeliverable.

2) Change the alias for LISTNAME-bounces to deliver to "owner" instead
of "bounces". This will direct all bounces to the owner, but requires
delivery to Mailman to be via alias and to be truly effective requires
aliases to not be automatically generated.

3) Create a cron to run a few times a day and go through the bounce log
looking for entries like

May 28 05:06:04 2009 (12757) LISTNAME: user at example.com bounce score:
	
with timestamp > than the last run and mail a notice to LISTNAME-owner.

4) Modify the code to do what you want.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 29 16:22:08 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 07:22:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No mail delivery.
In-Reply-To: <20090528161350.xos7ozhk0jggskc0@edj.net>
Message-ID: 

rich at edj.net wrote:

[...]
>May 28 15:51:16 domain postfix/local[8232]: C1ED713308C4:  
>to=, relay=local, delay=0.57,  
>delays=0.06/0.03/0/0.49, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command:  
>/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post list2)
>
>and nothing in error for mailman. Where is the mail going? Regular  
>email can be sent and recieved fine.


Is Mailman running?

See the FAQ at .

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From zhang.zhengquan at gmail.com  Fri May 29 15:36:42 2009
From: zhang.zhengquan at gmail.com (Zhengquan Zhang)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 08:36:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] howto rebuild the html files from mbox?
Message-ID: <20090529133642.GA5105@m364d1.ece.northwestern.edu>

Hello mailman list,

drwxrwsr-x   2 apache  mailman  84K Oct 20  2004 2002/
-rw-rw-r--   1 apache  mailman 451M Sep 30  2007 2002.txt
drwxrwsr-x   2 apache  mailman  28K Oct 20  2004 2003/
-rw-rw-r--   1 apache  mailman  11M Oct 20  2004 2003.txt
drwxrwsr-x   2 apache  mailman  44K Dec 30  2004 2004/
-rw-rw-r--   1 apache  mailman 4.1M Dec 30  2004 2004.txt
drwxrwsr-x   2 apache  mailman 8.0K Dec 21  2005 2005/
-rw-rw-r--   1 apache  mailman 421K Dec 21  2005 2005.txt
drwxrwsr-x   2 apache  mailman 4.0K Oct 31  2006 2006/
-rw-rw-r--   1 apache  mailman  68K Oct 31  2006 2006.txt
drwxrwsr-x   2 apache  mailman 4.0K Dec 29  2007 2007/
-rw-rw-r--   1 apache  mailman  35K Dec 29  2007 2007.txt
drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman mailman 4.0K May 28 16:05 2009/
-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman mailman 2.1K May 28 16:05 2009.txt
drwxrwsr-x 307 apache  mailman 8.0K May 27 14:22 attachments/
drwxrws---   2 apache  mailman 4.0K May 28 16:05 database/
-rw-rw-rw-   1 apache  mailman 4.9K May 28 16:05 index.html
-rw-rw----   1 apache  mailman  936 May 28 16:05 pipermail.pck

I just found that one list we manage has failed to generate the
individual html file for the web archive since 2008, I did the
check_perms yesterday and got it working again. the problem is the 2008
folder is still missing but fortunately we have the mbox file intact.

-rw-rw-r-- 1 apache mailman 162M May 28 16:05 admin.mbox

I checked and found all messages from 2008 and 2009 are in it.

my question is how to regenerate the 2008 and 2009 folder and the txt
files from the mbox file?

Thanks a lot,
-- 
Zhengquan


From Georgina at enar-eu.org  Fri May 29 14:35:07 2009
From: Georgina at enar-eu.org (Georgina Siklossy)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 14:35:07 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman list
Message-ID: <730DB3189BFE6D478051E7C38F174DEA183E4B@sbsserver.ENAR-EU.local>

Hello,

 

We have a problem with our 'mailman' list http://listserv.enar-eu.org/mailman/admindb/board+subs

I would like to accept for the mailing list that are still pending but every time I want to do so, I come onto a page which says: 

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.8b1

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. 

Could you please solve the problem?

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

Best regards,

 

Georgina Siklossy

Communication and Press Officer

ENAR, European Network Against Racism

43 Rue de la Charit?

B-1210 Brussels

Tel: +32 (0)2 229 35 77

Fax: +32 (0)2 229 35 75

Email: georgina at enar-eu.org  

 

Visit ENAR's website @ www.enar-eu.org  

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 29 16:39:28 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 07:39:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors on mailman startup
In-Reply-To: <4A1F6C3F.9030902@zuka.net>
Message-ID: 

Dave Filchak wrote:

>Well .. I have ran through most of the FAQs and the debugging techniques 
>listed in them and all SEEMS like it is functioning correctly. I have 
>also upgraded Mailman to 2.1.8 from 2.1.6 and I still have the exact 
>same problem. After upgrading, I didn't run the debugging stuff again so 
>I will try it again but I honestly do not think that it will help me.


The exception occurs in the Python smtplib and is independent of the
Mailman version.

Did you actually do the test described in the post at

(linked from the FAQ) as the Mailman user?

Did you actually try to send mail as described in the post at

(linked from the FAQ) as the Mailman user?

If you did those as the Mailman user and they didn't show any error,
then I can't explain why it fails when OutgoingRunner does the exact
same thing.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 29 16:42:53 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 07:42:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] howto rebuild the html files from mbox?
In-Reply-To: <20090529133642.GA5105@m364d1.ece.northwestern.edu>
Message-ID: 

Zhengquan Zhang wrote:
>
>I just found that one list we manage has failed to generate the
>individual html file for the web archive since 2008, I did the
>check_perms yesterday and got it working again. the problem is the 2008
>folder is still missing but fortunately we have the mbox file intact.
>
>-rw-rw-r-- 1 apache mailman 162M May 28 16:05 admin.mbox
>
>I checked and found all messages from 2008 and 2009 are in it.
>
>my question is how to regenerate the 2008 and 2009 folder and the txt
>files from the mbox file?

bin/mailmanctl stop
bin/arch --wipe admin
bin/mailmanctl start

See bin/arch --help and bin/cleanarch --help for more information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 29 16:48:47 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 07:48:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman list
In-Reply-To: <730DB3189BFE6D478051E7C38F174DEA183E4B@sbsserver.ENAR-EU.local>
Message-ID: 

Georgina Siklossy wrote:
>
>We have a problem with our 'mailman' list http://listserv.enar-eu.org/mailman/admindb/board+subs
>
>I would like to accept for the mailing list that are still pending but every time I want to do so, I come onto a page which says: 
>
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.8b1
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. 
>
>Could you please solve the problem?


First of all, this is the first beta release of Mailman 2.1.8. It would
be advisable to update to a final release. The current release is
2.1.12.

As far as the Bug is concerned, we need to see the full traceback from
Mailman's error log to be able to help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Fri May 29 16:50:54 2009
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 15:50:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman list
In-Reply-To: <730DB3189BFE6D478051E7C38F174DEA183E4B@sbsserver.ENAR-EU.local>
References: <730DB3189BFE6D478051E7C38F174DEA183E4B@sbsserver.ENAR-EU.local>
Message-ID: <20090529145054.GB1976@amyl.org.uk>

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 02:35:07PM +0200, Georgina Siklossy wrote:
> We have a problem with our 'mailman' list
> http://listserv.enar-eu.org/mailman/admindb/board+subs
>
> I would like to accept for the mailing list that are still pending
> but every time I want to do so, I come onto a page which says: 
> 
> Bug in Mailman version 2.1.8b1
> 
> We're sorry, we hit a bug!
> 
> Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing
> of traceback and other system information has been explicitly
> inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman
> error logs. 

So, have you asked the site's webmaster/list-manager to extract the
information from the error logs?

Without that info, we/he's not going to get very far.

Armed with the trackback, we may be able to help a bit more, or the
same error may be in this list's archive.

-- 
``What is a committee?  A group of the unwilling,
  picked from the unfit, to do the unnecessary.''  (Richard Harkness)

From submit at zuka.net  Fri May 29 18:28:24 2009
From: submit at zuka.net (Dave Filchak)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 12:28:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors on mailman startup
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A200D28.6090204@zuka.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Dave Filchak wrote:
>
>   
>> Well .. I have ran through most of the FAQs and the debugging techniques 
>> listed in them and all SEEMS like it is functioning correctly. I have 
>> also upgraded Mailman to 2.1.8 from 2.1.6 and I still have the exact 
>> same problem. After upgrading, I didn't run the debugging stuff again so 
>> I will try it again but I honestly do not think that it will help me.
>>     
>
>
> The exception occurs in the Python smtplib and is independent of the
> Mailman version.
>
> Did you actually do the test described in the post at
> 
> (linked from the FAQ) as the Mailman user?
>   
Yes. This test was fine.
> Did you actually try to send mail as described in the post at
> 
> (linked from the FAQ) as the Mailman user?
>   
This worked as well although, as I mention below, I am not logged in a 
mailman as mailman has no login shell and no password. Do I need to 
create one for mailman and try it again?
> If you did those as the Mailman user and they didn't show any error,
> then I can't explain why it fails when OutgoingRunner does the exact
> same thing.
>
>   
Did not do them as the mailman user but as another user (not root). User 
mailman has no login shell (/sbin/nologin) Should mailman need a login 
shell and passwd? It never has before and mailman was working. Again, 
there was a UPS failure at my ISP and the servers lost power abruptly so 
something might have happened then. But everything else is working, 
including regular mail.

Dave


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 29 19:48:53 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 10:48:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors on mailman startup
In-Reply-To: <4A200D28.6090204@zuka.net>
Message-ID: 

Dave Filchak wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> Did you actually do the test described in the post at
>> 
>> (linked from the FAQ) as the Mailman user?
>>   
>Yes. This test was fine.
>> Did you actually try to send mail as described in the post at
>> 
>> (linked from the FAQ) as the Mailman user?
>>   
>This worked as well although, as I mention below, I am not logged in a 
>mailman as mailman has no login shell and no password. Do I need to 
>create one for mailman and try it again?
>> If you did those as the Mailman user and they didn't show any error,
>> then I can't explain why it fails when OutgoingRunner does the exact
>> same thing.
>>
>>   
>Did not do them as the mailman user but as another user (not root). User 
>mailman has no login shell (/sbin/nologin) Should mailman need a login 
>shell and passwd? It never has before and mailman was working. Again, 
>there was a UPS failure at my ISP and the servers lost power abruptly so 
>something might have happened then. But everything else is working, 
>including regular mail.


No. Mailman doesn't need a login shell or a password. You should be
able to do, e.g.

sudo -u mailman /bin/bash

in order to get a command shell running as mailman or

sudo -u mailman python

to get a python interpreter.

It seems there is a permissions issue somewhere that is preventing
mailman from accessing something. Make sure /etc/hosts and
/etc/resolve.conf are world readable. If that isn't it, try to narrow
it down by running the tests as mailman using sudo as above.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From submit at zuka.net  Fri May 29 22:41:35 2009
From: submit at zuka.net (Dave Filchak)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 16:41:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors on mailman startup
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A20487F.3040707@zuka.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Dave Filchak wrote:
>
>   
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>     
>>> Did you actually do the test described in the post at
>>> 
>>> (linked from the FAQ) as the Mailman user?
>>>   
>>>       
>> Yes. This test was fine.
>>     
>>> Did you actually try to send mail as described in the post at
>>> 
>>> (linked from the FAQ) as the Mailman user?
>>>   
>>>       
>> This worked as well although, as I mention below, I am not logged in a 
>> mailman as mailman has no login shell and no password. Do I need to 
>> create one for mailman and try it again?
>>     
>>> If you did those as the Mailman user and they didn't show any error,
>>> then I can't explain why it fails when OutgoingRunner does the exact
>>> same thing.
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>> Did not do them as the mailman user but as another user (not root). User 
>> mailman has no login shell (/sbin/nologin) Should mailman need a login 
>> shell and passwd? It never has before and mailman was working. Again, 
>> there was a UPS failure at my ISP and the servers lost power abruptly so 
>> something might have happened then. But everything else is working, 
>> including regular mail.
>>     
>
>
> No. Mailman doesn't need a login shell or a password. You should be
> able to do, e.g.
>
> sudo -u mailman /bin/bash
>
> in order to get a command shell running as mailman or
>
> sudo -u mailman python
>
> to get a python interpreter.
>
> It seems there is a permissions issue somewhere that is preventing
> mailman from accessing something. Make sure /etc/hosts and
> /etc/resolve.conf are world readable. If that isn't it, try to narrow
> it down by running the tests as mailman using sudo as above.
>
>   
OK .. ran both tests as mailman. First one was fine. Second one, while 
it shown no errors initially, I only received the email that was sent as 
a rcpt (secondary email address). The To: email address did not get 
delivered. The smtp-failure logs do not show a specific error for that 
email transaction but it still shows a ton of the same errors, i.e.:

May 29 16:21:04 2009 (6489) Low level smtp error: (-2, 'Name or service 
not known'), msgid: 
May 29 16:21:04 2009 (6489) delivery to someone at domain.org failed with 
code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')

Both /etc/resolv.conf and /etc/hosts are world readable. I am truly stumped.

Dave



From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 29 23:14:13 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 14:14:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors on mailman startup
In-Reply-To: <4A20487F.3040707@zuka.net>
Message-ID: 

Dave Filchak wrote:
>>   
>OK .. ran both tests as mailman. First one was fine. Second one, while 
>it shown no errors initially, I only received the email that was sent as 
>a rcpt (secondary email address). The To: email address did not get 
>delivered. The smtp-failure logs do not show a specific error for that 
>email transaction but it still shows a ton of the same errors, i.e.:
>
>May 29 16:21:04 2009 (6489) Low level smtp error: (-2, 'Name or service 
>not known'), msgid: 
>May 29 16:21:04 2009 (6489) delivery to someone at domain.org failed with 
>code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
>
>Both /etc/resolv.conf and /etc/hosts are world readable. I am truly stumped.


That example won't deliver to any addresses in the message headers. 
Also, it won't log any errors. Error will be written to Python's
stderr (normally the terminal). It sends to the addresses in the rcpts
list as those are the only addresses communicated via SMTP. I.e., the
envelope is sent to the rcpts regardless of what the message inside
the envelope says.

OK. I'm stumped too. Check the definitions of SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT in
Defaults.py and possible overrides in mm_cfg.py to make sure they are
'localhost' and 0 respectively.

Also, another thing that occurred to me at one point which I don't
think makes any difference and which looked OK in your prior post of
'ps' output, but make sure that a sendmail process didn't start on
it's own after the power failure.

chkconfig --list sendmail

or however you set these things on your system should show sendmail is
off at all run levels. sendmail should only be run by MailScanner.

If your python is 2.4.x or later, you can use the technique described
in the FAQ at  to obtain debugging info
from Python's smtplib. The extra information will be written to
Mailman's error log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 29 23:28:52 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 14:28:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install question - was: Errors on mailman
	startup
In-Reply-To: <68779e050905291413s6b8d8ba2p3d81993a86320ef9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Malveeka Tewari wrote:
>
>I installed mailman on localhost using the following instructions on
>http://systers.org/systers-soc/doku.php/step_by_step_system_installation_-_production
>
>But on starting mailman I get an error:
>Site-list is missing: mailman-admin
>
>Can anyone help me here?


Please do not hijack existing threads for new topics. Post an original
message, not a reply.

The instructions you reference above are old. They reference mailman
2.1.10. The current version is 2.1.12. They are also incomplete
because they don't mention creating the site list.

The error message you got says you didn't create the site list, which
is normally named 'mailman', not 'mailman-admin', but in your case you
have declared its name to be mailman-admin by putting

MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman-admin'

in mm_cfg.py.

Our installation manual is in the tarball and also at
. See section 8.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri May 29 23:50:51 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 14:50:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install question - was: Errors on mailman
	startup
In-Reply-To: <68779e050905291441o4701afcnf6b3d6c42e228d9b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Malveeka Tewari wrote:
>
>I tried creating a newlist using bin/newlist
>
>It asked me for an email address and password which I enetered but I got an
>error
>Illegal list name: mailman-admin at localhost


The instructions you are following are no good. DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and
DEFAULT_URL_HOST and the host names you supply to configure have to be
fully qualified domain names. 'localhost' won't work.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From submit at zuka.net  Sat May 30 04:25:56 2009
From: submit at zuka.net (Dave Filchak)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 22:25:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 63, Issue 53
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A209934.7020409@zuka.net>

> 
>>>   
>>>       
>> OK .. ran both tests as mailman. First one was fine. Second one, while 
>> it shown no errors initially, I only received the email that was sent as 
>> a rcpt (secondary email address). The To: email address did not get 
>> delivered. The smtp-failure logs do not show a specific error for that 
>> email transaction but it still shows a ton of the same errors, i.e.:
>>
>> May 29 16:21:04 2009 (6489) Low level smtp error: (-2, 'Name or service 
>> not known'), msgid: 
>> May 29 16:21:04 2009 (6489) delivery to someone at domain.org failed with 
>> code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
>>
>> Both /etc/resolv.conf and /etc/hosts are world readable. I am truly stumped.
>>     
>
>
> That example won't deliver to any addresses in the message headers. 
> Also, it won't log any errors. Error will be written to Python's
> stderr (normally the terminal). It sends to the addresses in the rcpts
> list as those are the only addresses communicated via SMTP. I.e., the
> envelope is sent to the rcpts regardless of what the message inside
> the envelope says.
>
> OK. I'm stumped too. Check the definitions of SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT in
> Defaults.py and possible overrides in mm_cfg.py to make sure they are
> 'localhost' and 0 respectively.
>   
OK .. well maybe something here. In Defaults.py SMTPHOST is set to 
'localhost' In mm_cfg.py, it is set to the actual public IP of the server.
> Also, another thing that occurred to me at one point which I don't
> think makes any difference and which looked OK in your prior post of
> 'ps' output, but make sure that a sendmail process didn't start on
> it's own after the power failure.
>
> chkconfig --list sendmail
>
> or however you set these things on your system should show sendmail is
> off at all run levels. sendmail should only be run by MailScanner.
>   
sendmail is turned off at all levels.
> If your python is 2.4.x or later, you can use the technique described
> in the FAQ at  to obtain debugging info
> from Python's smtplib. The extra information will be written to
> Mailman's error log.
>   
No such luck. This is an older system running the latest available for 
this system (2.3.4)

I am going to change mm_cfg.py to match Defaults.py or I guess I could 
just comment it out?

Dave


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May 30 04:58:33 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 19:58:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 63, Issue 53
In-Reply-To: <4A209934.7020409@zuka.net>
Message-ID: 

Dave Filchak 
>>   
>OK .. well maybe something here. In Defaults.py SMTPHOST is set to 
>'localhost' In mm_cfg.py, it is set to the actual public IP of the server.


I'm fairly sure if you just remove the SMTPHOST = 'xx.xx.xx.xx' from
mm_cfg.py and restart Mailman, it will work.

I'm also fairly sure that if you set SMTPHOST to the IP instead of
localhost in the tests that they will fail.

Of course, none of this will explain why it quit after the power
outage, but I'm pretty sure the difference is a DNS issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From submit at zuka.net  Sat May 30 05:03:24 2009
From: submit at zuka.net (Dave Filchak)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 23:03:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 63, Issue 53
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A20A1FC.5020306@zuka.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Dave Filchak 
>   
>>>   
>>>       
>> OK .. well maybe something here. In Defaults.py SMTPHOST is set to 
>> 'localhost' In mm_cfg.py, it is set to the actual public IP of the server.
>>     
>
>
> I'm fairly sure if you just remove the SMTPHOST = 'xx.xx.xx.xx' from
> mm_cfg.py and restart Mailman, it will work.
>
> I'm also fairly sure that if you set SMTPHOST to the IP instead of
> localhost in the tests that they will fail.
>
> Of course, none of this will explain why it quit after the power
> outage, but I'm pretty sure the difference is a DNS issue.
>
>   
Yup ... just sent a test email to a test list we have set up and it 
seems to be working. It is so weird though ... there is really no way I 
can think of that these would change even after an unscheduled abrupt 
shutdown like we had. And the thing is, this server was up and running 
for two years before that and running mailman with no issues. It is like 
a ghost in the machine. Very crazy!!

I wan to thank you for hanging in there with me. I really do appreciate it.

Dave

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May 30 05:26:34 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 20:26:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 63, Issue 53
In-Reply-To: <4A20A1FC.5020306@zuka.net>
Message-ID: 

Dave Filchak wrote:
>>   
>Yup ... just sent a test email to a test list we have set up and it 
>seems to be working. It is so weird though ... there is really no way I 
>can think of that these would change even after an unscheduled abrupt 
>shutdown like we had. And the thing is, this server was up and running 
>for two years before that and running mailman with no issues. It is like 
>a ghost in the machine. Very crazy!!


That could explain this. It happens all the time. People make changes
to things which are only effective following a restart of some kind,
but they don't do the restart. Then along comes an unplanned outage
and reboot and all of a sudden things are broken because of changes
that were made and forgotten months before.


>I wan to thank you for hanging in there with me. I really do appreciate it.


You're welcome.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kremels at kreme.com  Sat May 30 20:19:32 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 12:19:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin Password?
Message-ID: 

Where is the site administrators password set in the mailman config?

"You must have the proper authorization to create new mailing lists.  
Each site should have a list creator's password, which you can enter  
in the field at the bottom. Note that the site administrator's  
password can also be used for authentication. "

-- 
Heisenberg's only uncertainty was what pub to vomit in next and
	Jung fancied Freud's mother too. -- Jared Earle


From kremels at kreme.com  Sat May 30 20:29:59 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 12:29:59 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creating a new list fails
Message-ID: <2579B604-2A4D-41A0-95D4-32FDBCF5E383@kreme.com>


$ bin/newlist -l en --urlhost=mailman.covisp.net --emailhost=kreme.com hgt-school at kreme.com 
  kreme at kreme.com
Initial hgt-school password:
Create a new, unpopulated mailing list.

Usage: bin/newlist [options] [listname [listadmin-addr [admin- 
password]]]

[ bunch of stuff]

Illegal list name: hgt-school at akane

(akane is the hostname of the local machine.  I have existing lists at http://mailman.covisp.net/mailman/admin 
  but none are public)

-- 
No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one
	of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May 30 20:42:04 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 11:42:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin Password?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

LuKreme wrote:

>Where is the site administrators password set in the mailman config?


bin/mmsitepass --help

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May 30 20:53:56 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 11:53:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creating a new list fails
In-Reply-To: <2579B604-2A4D-41A0-95D4-32FDBCF5E383@kreme.com>
Message-ID: 

LuKreme wrote:
>
>$ bin/newlist -l en --urlhost=mailman.covisp.net --emailhost=kreme.com hgt-school at kreme.com 
>  kreme at kreme.com
>Initial hgt-school password:
>Create a new, unpopulated mailing list.
>
>Usage: bin/newlist [options] [listname [listadmin-addr [admin- 
>password]]]
>
>[ bunch of stuff]
>
>Illegal list name: hgt-school at akane


The short answer is DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST must be a fully qualified doman
name.

The underlying issue is the MailList.Create() method as called by
bin/newlist validates the list name by checking that
LISTNAME at DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST is a valid email address. This check in
turn requires at least one dot '.' in the domain part.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From admin2 at enabled.com  Sat May 30 21:52:11 2009
From: admin2 at enabled.com (admin2)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 12:52:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about postfix aliases file and postfix
 virtual file and local delivery
Message-ID: <4A218E6B.1090002@enabled.com>

Hi there,

I have a question about changing the default behavior of postfix.  As 
current configuration stands I need to add a mailman maillist hosted by 
virtual hosts/domains I need to add the to list entries to the /var/lib/ 
mailman/data/aliases file and also the /etc/postfix/virtual file

Is there any way to get postfix to deliver mail to a virutal 
domain/hosted email, such as a mailman maillist, if it is found in the 
/var/lib/ mailman/data/aliases file but does not appear in the 
/etc/postfix/virtual file?

What about allowing postfix to deliver Incoming mail if an user and/or 
maillist address is a local user but does not appear in the 
/etc/postfix/virtual file?

Cheers,

Noah

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May 30 22:13:55 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 13:13:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about postfix aliases file and
	postfixvirtual file and local delivery
In-Reply-To: <4A218E6B.1090002@enabled.com>
Message-ID: 

admin2 wrote:
>
>I have a question about changing the default behavior of postfix.  As 
>current configuration stands I need to add a mailman maillist hosted by 
>virtual hosts/domains I need to add the to list entries to the /var/lib/ 
>mailman/data/aliases file and also the /etc/postfix/virtual file


Or configure Mailman/Postfix integration for virtual domains so that
mailman will automatically maintain virtual maps in
/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman as it currently does aliases.

See  although
it is a bit out of date on the Postfix side.


>Is there any way to get postfix to deliver mail to a virutal 
>domain/hosted email, such as a mailman maillist, if it is found in the 
>/var/lib/ mailman/data/aliases file but does not appear in the 
>/etc/postfix/virtual file?


Only by adding the domain to mydestination in Postfix, thus making it a
local domain.


>What about allowing postfix to deliver Incoming mail if an user and/or 
>maillist address is a local user but does not appear in the 
>/etc/postfix/virtual file?


In order to do that, it has to ba a local domain as far as Postfix is
concerned.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kremels at kreme.com  Sat May 30 22:55:44 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 14:55:44 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creating a new list fails
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 30-May-2009, at 12:53, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> LuKreme wrote:
>>
>> $ bin/newlist -l en --urlhost=mailman.covisp.net -- 
>> emailhost=kreme.com hgt-school at kreme.com
>> kreme at kreme.com
>> Initial hgt-school password:
>> Create a new, unpopulated mailing list.
>>
>> Usage: bin/newlist [options] [listname [listadmin-addr [admin-
>> password]]]
>>
>> [ bunch of stuff]
>>
>> Illegal list name: hgt-school at akane
>
> The short answer is DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST must be a fully qualified doman
> name.

kreme.com _IS_ a fqdn.  Or are we talking about a setting somwhere  
else?  I do have several lists up and running, but they were all  
created years ago and have been pretty much left alone. If I trey to  
create a list via the web interface I get a different error:

Error: Unknown virtual host: mailman.covisp.net

> The underlying issue is the MailList.Create() method as called by
> bin/newlist validates the list name by checking that
> LISTNAME at DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST is a valid email address.

So I need to create the listname aliases before the list is created?

> This check in
> turn requires at least one dot '.' in the domain part.

I which domain part?  My mm_cfg.py is very simple:

###############################################
# Here's where we get the distributed defaults.

from Defaults import *

##################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.

VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes
VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes
VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1
ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE = 100
OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
ADMINDB_PAGE_TEXT_LIMIT = 4096
OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes
HOLD_MESSAGES_AS_PICKLES = No

-- 
The person on the other side was a young woman. Very obviously a
	young woman. There was no possible way that she could have been
	mistaken for a young man in any language, especially Braille.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May 30 23:15:52 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 14:15:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creating a new list fails
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

LuKreme 
   Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 14:55:44 -0600
     To: mailman-users at python.org

>On 30-May-2009, at 12:53, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> LuKreme wrote:
>>>
>>> $ bin/newlist -l en --urlhost=mailman.covisp.net -- 
>>> emailhost=kreme.com hgt-school at kreme.com
>>> kreme at kreme.com
>>> Initial hgt-school password:
>>> Create a new, unpopulated mailing list.
>>>
>>> Usage: bin/newlist [options] [listname [listadmin-addr [admin-
>>> password]]]
>>>
>>> [ bunch of stuff]
>>>
>>> Illegal list name: hgt-school at akane
>>
>> The short answer is DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST must be a fully qualified doman
>> name.
>
>kreme.com _IS_ a fqdn.  Or are we talking about a setting somwhere  
>else?  


Yes, and this is really a bug in newlist in that you supplied an email
host, but it didn't put it in the initial Create() method call, so
create uses DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST (from Defaults.py or mm_cfg.py) as the
domain to validate the list posting address. This setting is

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'akane'.


>I do have several lists up and running, but they were all  
>created years ago and have been pretty much left alone. If I trey to  
>create a list via the web interface I get a different error:
>
>Error: Unknown virtual host: mailman.covisp.net


This is because you went to the create page via a URL with hostname
mailman.covisp.net, and that name is not in your VIRTUAL_HOSTS
dictionary. See below.


>> The underlying issue is the MailList.Create() method as called by
>> bin/newlist validates the list name by checking that
>> LISTNAME at DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST is a valid email address.
>
>So I need to create the listname aliases before the list is created?


No. the check is for 'syntactically valid', not 'deliverable'


>> This check in
>> turn requires at least one dot '.' in the domain part.
>
>I which domain part?  My mm_cfg.py is very simple:
>
>###############################################
># Here's where we get the distributed defaults.
>
>from Defaults import *
>
>##################################################
># Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
>
>VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes
>VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes
>VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
>VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1
>ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE = 100
>OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
>ADMINDB_PAGE_TEXT_LIMIT = 4096
>OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes
>HOLD_MESSAGES_AS_PICKLES = No


You also want (guessing based on above)

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mailman.covisp.net'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'kreme.com'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

because the Defaults.py entries for these are not correct, and possibly
more add_virtualhost('www.example.com', 'example.com') entries if you
have other domains.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kremels at kreme.com  Sat May 30 23:27:09 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 15:27:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creating a new list fails
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <22CBC77E-C7F5-41E0-AF05-B24795059BE3@kreme.com>

On 30-May-2009, at 14:55, LuKreme wrote:
> I which domain part?  My mm_cfg.py is very simple:


OK, I fixed this by editing Defaults.py

-- 
The most perfidious way of harming a cause consists of defending
	it deliberately with faulty arguments.


From kremels at kreme.com  Sat May 30 23:29:05 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 15:29:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creating a new list fails
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On 30-May-2009, at 14:55, LuKreme wrote:
> I which domain part?  My mm_cfg.py is very simple:


I managed to fix this by editing Defaults.py

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mail.covisp.net'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mailman.covisp.net'

Everything seems to work as it did before. Yay!

(both values were set to 'akane' before, which is an alias for the  
machine)

-- 
MEGAHAL: within my penguin lies a torrid story of hate and love.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat May 30 23:42:13 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 14:42:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creating a new list fails
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

LuKreme wrote:
>
>I managed to fix this by editing Defaults.py
>
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mail.covisp.net'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mailman.covisp.net'


See the FAQ at  for why you should make
this change in mm_cfg.py, not Defaults.py.

It's a bit more complicated in this case than just adding the above two
lines to mm_cfg.py (although that would suffice for the newlist issue)
because those settings are used in an additional definition in
Defaults.py so you also need

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()

to undo what was done in Defaults.py, and

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

to redo it with the correct values.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Sat May 30 23:59:50 2009
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 21:59:50 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] my mailman has been hacked !!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 


 

Ok I have a set of problems here.. 

 

First, posting to the list using Approved: header as the first line of the message body did not work becasue I'm sending formatted messages using Microsoft outlook with tables n stuff ..

 

Second, I tried the following: keep an email address as non moderated to be able to post to the list and in General options, I turned the option : 

 

Hide the sender of a message, replacing it with the list address  = YES

 

this way hackers n spammers won't know which address is allowed to post but now the subscribers are recieving From: listname at mydomain.com and not from: 'My web site's Name' which is annoying.. 

 

Third, I can't afford to turn everyone's moderation bit on even my own address and then approve the messages using the web interface for 2 reasons:

 

1- I have 7 lists which is a real pain to log into each one of them and approve the messages..

2- I'm afraid to approve one of the tens of spam and members messages by mistake ..

 

what's the advice??

 

Thanks ..


 
> Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 16:39:28 -0700
> From: mark at msapiro.net
> To: jeffrey at goldmark.org; khillo100 at hotmail.com
> CC: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] my mailman has been hacked !!
> 
> Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
> 
> >On May 27, 2009, at 1:23 PM, Khalil Abbas wrote:
> >
> >> all members are moderated, except my own email address 
> >> (my at email.com) which I use to post to the list ..
> >
> >> someone sent from my address
> >
> >
> >> the 'From' name is not me,
> >
> >Please clarify. Did the From line contain your email address (my at email.com 
> >) or not? You seem to be saying two different things.
> >
> >If, as I suspect, someone is merely forging your address to post to 
> >the list, there are two things that you can do (I would recommend that 
> >you do (1) as an immediate and temporary measure, until you can get 
> >(2) in place).
> >
> >(1) Moderate even your own postings, so that your list moderator 
> >password is required to post, even if "from" your own address.
> >
> >(2) Improve the spam/virus filtering on your mailserver. A forged 
> >message from an open relay containing a virus should have been stopped 
> >by your mail system long before it reached mailman.
> 
> 
> Two comments in addition to the above good advice.
> 
> 1) Almost anyone can spoof your address in the From: of an email. This
> does not require an open relay server or anything fancy. Almost any
> MUA can do it.
> 
> 2) That is why for announce lists we recommend moderating everyone and
> if you want to avoid moderation when posting, use an Approved: header
> to bypass moderation. See the FAQs at 
> and .
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro  The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out!
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May 31 00:25:31 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 15:25:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] my mailman has been hacked !!
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Khalil Abbas wrote:
>
>First, posting to the list using Approved: header as the first line of the message body did not work becasue I'm sending formatted messages using Microsoft outlook with tables n stuff ..


If you post a multipart/alternative message with a text/plain and a
text/html part, the first line Approved: header should work although
its removal from the HTML part isn't 100% guaranteed.

Also, I can';t tell you how to do it in MS Outlook, but many MUAs have
a mechanism for adding true headers to the mail.

Try 


>Second, I tried the following: keep an email address as non moderated to be able to post to the list and in General options, I turned the option : 
>
> 
>
>Hide the sender of a message, replacing it with the list address  = YES
>
> 
>
>this way hackers n spammers won't know which address is allowed to post but now the subscribers are recieving From: listname at mydomain.com and not from: 'My web site's Name' which is annoying.. 


And it won't stop the spammers anyway. The spammers may have just been
lucky in spoofing your address, and even if you assume the got your
list address and posting address from spyware on one of your member's
computers, they have it.


>Third, I can't afford to turn everyone's moderation bit on even my own address and then approve the messages using the web interface for 2 reasons:
>
> 
>
>1- I have 7 lists which is a real pain to log into each one of them and approve the messages..
>
>2- I'm afraid to approve one of the tens of spam and members messages by mistake ..
>
> 
>
>what's the advice??


We gave you the advice. Post with an Approved: header or an Approved:
first line in a multipart/alternative message. You can do it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kremels at kreme.com  Sun May 31 22:18:58 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 14:18:58 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying Entire Membership List
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 1-Mar-2009, at 08:22, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> This is not the way the Membership Management... -> Membership List
> page in recent Mailman works. If there are more than
> admin_member_chunksize members, the list is broken into pages by the
> first character of the email address.


I have a list with 32 users and I get this (annoying) display instead  
of just a list of users. As far as I could tell, there is no default  
value for this, and if it is unset, even one users causes this display.

I have

mm_cfg.py:ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE = 100
mm_cfg.py:DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE = 100

(The first value did nothing so I tried the second as well)

But am still getting the initial letter display in the membership  
screen "33 members total, 1 shown".

Is there some way to disable this completely?  I want a display that  
shows the first 50 users (or 25, or 100, or whatever I set) on the  
first screen, then the next chunk on the next screen, &c. This initial  
letter thing is wretched.

-- 
I laugh in the face of danger. Then I hide until it goes away.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May 31 23:15:15 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 14:15:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying Entire Membership List
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

LuKreme wrote:
>
>
>I have a list with 32 users and I get this (annoying) display instead  
>of just a list of users. As far as I could tell, there is no default  
>value for this, and if it is unset, even one users causes this display.


What does the above mean?


>I have
>
>mm_cfg.py:ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE = 100


As you notice, this does nothing.


>mm_cfg.py:DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE = 100
>
>(The first value did nothing so I tried the second as well)


The second sets the default value for the admin_member_chunksize
attribute of a newly created list.


>But am still getting the initial letter display in the membership  
>screen "33 members total, 1 shown".
>
>Is there some way to disable this completely?  I want a display that  
>shows the first 50 users (or 25, or 100, or whatever I set) on the  
>first screen, then the next chunk on the next screen, &c. This initial  
>letter thing is wretched.


Recent versions of Mailman allow you to set admin_member_chunksize on
the list's General Options page. If your Mailman doesn't support this,
you need to use bin/withlist or bin/config_list to set it. E.g.,

#!/bin/sh
f=`mktemp`
echo "admin_member_chunksize = 5000" > $f
bin/config_list -i $f LISTNAME
rm $f

(don't try to set it to 0, it will break the Membership List page).

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kremels at kreme.com  Sun May 31 23:35:46 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 15:35:46 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying Entire Membership List
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <53110E79-FE47-4E4D-B89F-4FB85A43ED3E@kreme.com>

On 31-May-2009, at 15:15, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> #!/bin/sh
> f=`mktemp`
> echo "admin_member_chunksize = 5000" > $f
> bin/config_list -i $f LISTNAME
> rm $f


this got me:

usage: mktemp [-d] [-q] [-t prefix] [-u] template ...
        mktemp [-d] [-q] [-u] -t prefix

I did this manually and got:

Non-standard property restored: admin_member_chunksize

is that an error or a success?


-- 
Two, Four, Six, Eight! Time to Transubstantiate!


From kremels at kreme.com  Sun May 31 23:41:13 2009
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 15:41:13 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creating a new list fails
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 30-May-2009, at 15:42, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> See the FAQ at  for why you should make
> this change in mm_cfg.py, not Defaults.py.


OK, but the settings in Defaults.py were from 2007, when the machine  
was named 'akane' and it had an alias as 'mail'. Now the machine is  
named mail and 'akane' is just a DNS alias. I went ahead and added the  
lines to mm_cfg.py so they won't get blow away, but don't see any  
reason to restore the lines in Defaults.py as it will be overwritten  
when I finally get around to updating.


-- 
Love seekest only self to please, To bind another to its delight
	Joys in	another's loss of ease And builds a hell in Heaven's
	despite!


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May 31 23:48:05 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 14:48:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying Entire Membership List
In-Reply-To: <53110E79-FE47-4E4D-B89F-4FB85A43ED3E@kreme.com>
Message-ID: 

LuKreme wrote:

>On 31-May-2009, at 15:15, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> #!/bin/sh
>> f=`mktemp`
>> echo "admin_member_chunksize = 5000" > $f
>> bin/config_list -i $f LISTNAME
>> rm $f
>
>
>this got me:
>
>usage: mktemp [-d] [-q] [-t prefix] [-u] template ...
>        mktemp [-d] [-q] [-u] -t prefix


Sorry, my mktemp doesn't require a 'template'.


>I did this manually and got:
>
>Non-standard property restored: admin_member_chunksize
>
>is that an error or a success?


That is a success, it means that admin_member_chunksize is a list
attribute but is not in the GUI.

So now your Membership List for that list will be all on one page until
it exceeds 5000 members at which point it will be in alphabetical
chunks.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May 31 23:57:03 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 14:57:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creating a new list fails
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

LuKreme wrote:

>On 30-May-2009, at 15:42, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> See the FAQ at  for why you should make
>> this change in mm_cfg.py, not Defaults.py.
>
>
>OK, but the settings in Defaults.py were from 2007, when the machine  
>was named 'akane' and it had an alias as 'mail'. Now the machine is  
>named mail and 'akane' is just a DNS alias. I went ahead and added the  
>lines to mm_cfg.py so they won't get blow away, but don't see any  
>reason to restore the lines in Defaults.py as it will be overwritten  
>when I finally get around to updating.


That's fine. You now have the correct settings in mm_cfg.py so it
doesn't matter what's in Defaults.py for these. What will be in
Defaults.py after an upgrade depends on how you upgrade. If you
upgrade from our source, you set these things in Defaults.py with the
--with-urlhost= and --with-mailhost= options to configure.

-- 
Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cwalker32 at gmail.com  Sun May 31 20:26:11 2009
From: cwalker32 at gmail.com (Cory Walker)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 14:26:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman does not respond to my email.
Message-ID: 

Hello!

I've been having trouble with my main email (this is not it). Whenever I try
to post a message to a mailman mailing list with it, nothing happens. I
can't confirm subscriptions or post. Obviously, this email works fine with
any mailman server. With my main email, I've tried multiple clients
(evolution, thunderbird). None of them work. This has only happened since a
few months ago. I know this problem isn't unique to a certain list, because
it happens on this mailing list and all of my other projects.

Thanks in advance - Cory

From cwalker32 at gmail.com  Sun May 31 20:49:15 2009
From: cwalker32 at gmail.com (Cory Walker)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 14:49:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman does not respond to my email.
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Hello!

I've been having trouble with my main email (this is not it). Whenever I try
to post a message to a mailman mailing list with it, nothing happens. I
can't confirm subscriptions or post. Obviously, this email works fine with
any mailman server. With my main email, I've tried multiple clients
(evolution, thunderbird). None of them work. This has only happened since a
few months ago. I know this problem isn't unique to a certain list, because
it happens on this mailing list and all of my other projects. I have even
tried using Comcast's web interface, so I know it is not the way I've set my
client up.

Thanks in advance - Cory

From eggert.ehmke at ftv-spandau.de  Sun May 31 18:51:03 2009
From: eggert.ehmke at ftv-spandau.de (Eggert Ehmke (FTV))
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 18:51:03 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman administraive interface does not store data
Message-ID: <200905311851.03760.eggert.ehmke@ftv-spandau.de>

Hello,

I already run a Mailman list on my server that works fine. Now I set up a 
second list on another virtual domain. All looks fine, aliases and 
virtual-mailman are configured, the apache is configured. I can access the 
list administration but cannot change the general options. When I enter data 
in the general options and press Submit, the old options are displayed again. 
What makes things bad, I don't see any related error messages, also not in 
apache log files. How to track this down?
Chris

From lala32 at comcast.net  Sun May 31 19:36:12 2009
From: lala32 at comcast.net (Cory Walker)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 13:36:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email address cannot post to a specific mailing list
Message-ID: <4A22C00C.4000606@comcast.net>

Hello!

I've been having trouble using this email address to post to my projects 
mailing list, linux4nano-dev at gna.org. No matter what I do, my emails 
never go through. I am subscribed, and I have also tried resubscribing. 
Obviously, I can use it to post to other lists. I've tried using another 
email and it works fine. Does anyone know what's wrong?

Thanks in advance, Cory

From malveeka at gmail.com  Fri May 29 23:13:39 2009
From: malveeka at gmail.com (Malveeka Tewari)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 23:13:39 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors on mailman startup
In-Reply-To: <4A20487F.3040707@zuka.net>
References: 
	<4A20487F.3040707@zuka.net>
Message-ID: <68779e050905291413s6b8d8ba2p3d81993a86320ef9@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

I installed mailman on localhost using the following instructions on
http://systers.org/systers-soc/doku.php/step_by_step_system_installation_-_production

But on starting mailman I get an error:
Site-list is missing: mailman-admin

Can anyone help me here?

Thanks
Malveeka

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 10:41 PM, Dave Filchak  wrote:

> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Dave Filchak wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Did you actually do the test described in the post at
>>>> 
>>>> (linked from the FAQ) as the Mailman user?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Yes. This test was fine.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Did you actually try to send mail as described in the post at
>>>> 
>>>> (linked from the FAQ) as the Mailman user?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> This worked as well although, as I mention below, I am not logged in a
>>> mailman as mailman has no login shell and no password. Do I need to create
>>> one for mailman and try it again?
>>>
>>>
>>>> If you did those as the Mailman user and they didn't show any error,
>>>> then I can't explain why it fails when OutgoingRunner does the exact
>>>> same thing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Did not do them as the mailman user but as another user (not root). User
>>> mailman has no login shell (/sbin/nologin) Should mailman need a login shell
>>> and passwd? It never has before and mailman was working. Again, there was a
>>> UPS failure at my ISP and the servers lost power abruptly so something might
>>> have happened then. But everything else is working, including regular mail.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> No. Mailman doesn't need a login shell or a password. You should be
>> able to do, e.g.
>>
>> sudo -u mailman /bin/bash
>>
>> in order to get a command shell running as mailman or
>>
>> sudo -u mailman python
>>
>> to get a python interpreter.
>>
>> It seems there is a permissions issue somewhere that is preventing
>> mailman from accessing something. Make sure /etc/hosts and
>> /etc/resolve.conf are world readable. If that isn't it, try to narrow
>> it down by running the tests as mailman using sudo as above.
>>
>>
>>
> OK .. ran both tests as mailman. First one was fine. Second one, while it
> shown no errors initially, I only received the email that was sent as a rcpt
> (secondary email address). The To: email address did not get delivered. The
> smtp-failure logs do not show a specific error for that email transaction
> but it still shows a ton of the same errors, i.e.:
>
> May 29 16:21:04 2009 (6489) Low level smtp error: (-2, 'Name or service not
> known'), msgid: 
> May 29 16:21:04 2009 (6489) delivery to someone at domain.org failed with
> code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
>
> Both /etc/resolv.conf and /etc/hosts are world readable. I am truly
> stumped.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/malveeka%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>

From malveeka at gmail.com  Fri May 29 23:41:01 2009
From: malveeka at gmail.com (Malveeka Tewari)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 23:41:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install question - was: Errors on mailman
	startup
In-Reply-To: 
References: <68779e050905291413s6b8d8ba2p3d81993a86320ef9@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <68779e050905291441o4701afcnf6b3d6c42e228d9b@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry for replying in an already running thread.
Will not happen again.

I tried creating a newlist using bin/newlist

It asked me for an email address and password which I enetered but I got an
error
Illegal list name: mailman-admin at localhost


On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> Malveeka Tewari wrote:
> >
> >I installed mailman on localhost using the following instructions on
> >
> http://systers.org/systers-soc/doku.php/step_by_step_system_installation_-_production
> >
> >But on starting mailman I get an error:
> >Site-list is missing: mailman-admin
> >
> >Can anyone help me here?
>
>
> Please do not hijack existing threads for new topics. Post an original
> message, not a reply.
>
> The instructions you reference above are old. They reference mailman
> 2.1.10. The current version is 2.1.12. They are also incomplete
> because they don't mention creating the site list.
>
> The error message you got says you didn't create the site list, which
> is normally named 'mailman', not 'mailman-admin', but in your case you
> have declared its name to be mailman-admin by putting
>
> MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman-admin'
>
> in mm_cfg.py.
>
> Our installation manual is in the tarball and also at
> . See section 8.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From malveeka at gmail.com  Sat May 30 00:11:29 2009
From: malveeka at gmail.com (Malveeka Tewari)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 00:11:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install question - was: Errors on mailman
	startup
In-Reply-To: 
References: <68779e050905291441o4701afcnf6b3d6c42e228d9b@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <68779e050905291511x16579a53k631d8e6c3b68c4be@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks a lot!
Now atleast my mailman is running

Malveeka

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 11:50 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> Malveeka Tewari wrote:
> >
> >I tried creating a newlist using bin/newlist
> >
> >It asked me for an email address and password which I enetered but I got
> an
> >error
> >Illegal list name: mailman-admin at localhost
>
>
> The instructions you are following are no good. DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST and the host names you supply to configure have to be
> fully qualified domain names. 'localhost' won't work.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro         The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From zhang.zhengquan at gmail.com  Fri May 29 16:48:45 2009
From: zhang.zhengquan at gmail.com (Zhengquan Zhang)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 09:48:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] howto rebuild the html files from mbox?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20090529133642.GA5105@m364d1.ece.northwestern.edu>
	
Message-ID: <20090529144845.GA5539@m364d1.ece.northwestern.edu>

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 07:42:53AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Zhengquan Zhang wrote:
> >
> >I just found that one list we manage has failed to generate the
> >individual html file for the web archive since 2008, I did the
> >check_perms yesterday and got it working again. the problem is the 2008
> >folder is still missing but fortunately we have the mbox file intact.
> >
> >-rw-rw-r-- 1 apache mailman 162M May 28 16:05 admin.mbox
> >
> >I checked and found all messages from 2008 and 2009 are in it.
> >
> >my question is how to regenerate the 2008 and 2009 folder and the txt
> >files from the mbox file?
> 
> bin/mailmanctl stop
> bin/arch --wipe admin
> bin/mailmanctl start
> 
> See bin/arch --help and bin/cleanarch --help for more information.

Thanks a lot Mark,

-- 
Zhengquan


From tim.park.mt at gmail.com  Fri May 29 22:16:48 2009
From: tim.park.mt at gmail.com (Timothy Park)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 15:16:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce notifications.
In-Reply-To: 
References: <1b7776860905281121p18064fddtccce1b9b8b90bab9@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <1b7776860905291316l9d603bfh737d8207d6651a3c@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you very much Mark.  I'm sure that we'll be able to enact one of
those options.


Sincerely,

Tim

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
> Timothy Park wrote:
>>
>>I'm sorry in advance if I'm not understanding Mailman's bounce notification
>>process, but here's my issue: ?I've noticed that when a message bounces,
>>there are no notications to list owners. ?I only stumbled upon this error
>>when we created a mailing list for a small group of developers, and one
>>wasn't receiving any email due to a problem with his mail server. ?I had no
>>idea until he told me that he wasn't receiving our messages about a week
>>into the project. ?When I checked Mailman's bounce log
>>(/var/log/mailmain/bounce), the erorr was there, and his bounce score was
>>1.0. ?Is this the normal action of Mailman's bounce system? That is, to hold
>>off notifying the list owner of a bounce until the bounce score passes the
>>defined threshold? ?If so, is there any way I can force bounce errors to be
>>delivered? ?I tried disabling bounce processing, but that seems to just
>>discard bounced messages without a notification. ?Some of our mailing lists
>>are "mission critical" where one person not receiving a message could be a
>>big deal, so if mailman could let us know when there is a delivery failure,
>>that would be wonderful (we wouldn't mind the extra email). ?Thanks for your
>>help!
>
>
> Your observations are correct and that's the way bounce processing is
> designed to work.
>
> If you want to be notified of every bounce, you have a few choices:
>
> 1) Be sure bounce_processing is Yes and bounce_notify_owner_on_disable
> is Yes, and set bounce_score_threshold <= 1.0. This will cause a
> notice to be sent to the list owner containing the bounce message on
> the first bounce. The downside is the member's delivery will also be
> disabled, and the owner will then need to re-enable it, unless the
> address is truly undeliverable.
>
> 2) Change the alias for LISTNAME-bounces to deliver to "owner" instead
> of "bounces". This will direct all bounces to the owner, but requires
> delivery to Mailman to be via alias and to be truly effective requires
> aliases to not be automatically generated.
>
> 3) Create a cron to run a few times a day and go through the bounce log
> looking for entries like
>
> May 28 05:06:04 2009 (12757) LISTNAME: user at example.com bounce score:
>
> with timestamp > than the last run and mail a notice to LISTNAME-owner.
>
> 4) Modify the code to do what you want.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro  ? ? ? ?The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California ? ?better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From zhang.zhengquan at gmail.com  Sat May 30 05:18:38 2009
From: zhang.zhengquan at gmail.com (zhang zhengquan)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 22:18:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] howto rebuild the html files from mbox?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20090529133642.GA5105@m364d1.ece.northwestern.edu> 
	
Message-ID: <128a87f00905292018i7172aafcn82378ec52eb33c11@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks a lot Mark,
It helped me out,

Regards,
Zhengquan

2009/5/29 Mark Sapiro :
> Zhengquan Zhang wrote:
>>
>>I just found that one list we manage has failed to generate the
>>individual html file for the web archive since 2008, I did the
>>check_perms yesterday and got it working again. the problem is the 2008
>>folder is still missing but fortunately we have the mbox file intact.
>>
>>-rw-rw-r-- 1 apache mailman 162M May 28 16:05 admin.mbox
>>
>>I checked and found all messages from 2008 and 2009 are in it.
>>
>>my question is how to regenerate the 2008 and 2009 folder and the txt
>>files from the mbox file?
>
> bin/mailmanctl stop
> bin/arch --wipe admin
> bin/mailmanctl start
>
> See bin/arch --help and bin/cleanarch --help for more information.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro  ? ? ? ?The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California ? ?better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>



-- 
Zhengquan

From noah at enabled.com  Sun May 31 03:52:10 2009
From: noah at enabled.com (Noah Garrett Wallach)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 18:52:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding already existing mail lists to
	/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
Message-ID: <4A21E2CA.6060004@enabled.com>

Hi,

okay there is a warning to not manually edit the 
/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases file.  how do I add already existing mail 
lists that I am migrating from another server to an existing 
/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases file?

Cheers,

Noah

From noah at enabled.com  Sun May 31 19:02:34 2009
From: noah at enabled.com (Noah Garrett Wallach)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 10:02:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding already existing mail lists to
	/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
Message-ID: <4A22B82A.9010409@enabled.com>

Hi,

okay there is a warning to not manually edit the
/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases file.  how do I add already existing mail
lists that I am migrating from another server to an existing
/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases file?

Cheers,

Noah

From noah at enabled.com  Sun May 31 19:03:10 2009
From: noah at enabled.com (Noah Garrett Wallach)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 10:03:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding already existing mail lists to
	/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
Message-ID: <4A22B84E.5020908@enabled.com>

Hi,

okay there is a warning to not manually edit the
/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases file.  how do I add already existing mail
lists that I am migrating from another server to an existing
/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases file using the auto-add technique that 
would be similar to adding a new list from scratch.

Cheers,

Noah