From pennguin at mac.com Thu Apr 1 16:29:19 2010 From: pennguin at mac.com (Rob) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 10:29:19 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site password not functioning Message-ID: Good morning, While dealing with a flood of returned mails generated by the monthly password reminders sent out today, I noticed that my site admin password no longer functions correctly. Mailman accepts the password, and I can make changes to records, but if I attempt, for instance, to view a user record and choose the 'List my other subscriptions' button, I get the "The list administrator may not view the other subscriptions for this user." error. I know this worked previously, but I don't know what changed. So far I have changed the site password using mmsitepass, run check_perms -f until there are no permissions errors, and restarted mailman, none of which changed the behavior. This is Mailman 2.1.13 running on Mac OS X server 10.5.8 Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. -Rob From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com Thu Apr 1 17:54:30 2010 From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 10:54:30 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site password not functioning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Apr 2010, Rob wrote: > Good morning, > > While dealing with a flood of returned mails generated by the monthly > password reminders sent out today, I noticed that my site admin password > no longer functions correctly. Mailman accepts the password, and I can > make changes to records, but if I attempt, for instance, to view a user > record and choose the 'List my other subscriptions' button, I get the > "The list administrator may not view the other subscriptions for this > user." error. > > I know this worked previously, but I don't know what changed. > ... > This is Mailman 2.1.13 running on Mac OS X server 10.5.8 Did you install from sources or are you running the version Apple provides with OS X Server? If the latter, what probably changed is Apple updating you to 2.1.13 in the Security Update that came out last week (I'm assuming you must have installed that already). The Release Notes for the update say it upgraded Mailman. Apple's idea of security vulnerabilities can sometimes be considered as being the way you want to use a product is not the way they think you should be using it. Like every Security Update on OS X Client reconfiguring Postfix so that it does not listen to the outside world. Their idea is you don't run a full-blown mail server on Client so listening to the outside world is a vulnerability while for those of who do want the full-blown server, it's a feature. :-( (make note to self, make backup copies of the Postfix config files before installing the update this weekend). -- Larry Stone lstone19 at stonejongleux.com From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Thu Apr 1 18:11:43 2010 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 17:11:43 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site password not functioning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100401161143.GI2886@amyl.org.uk> On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 10:54:30AM -0500, Larry Stone wrote: > make backup copies of the Postfix config files before installing the > update this weekend). My configs are in subversion (migrated from RCS). Very useful for undoing those 'helpful' changes installers like to make. More "hip" kids might use git, or another (d)VCS. -- ``The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.'' (George Bernard Shaw) From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 1 18:23:28 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 09:23:28 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site password not functioning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Rob wrote: > >While dealing with a flood of returned mails generated by the monthly password reminders sent out today, I noticed that my site admin password no longer functions correctly. Mailman accepts the password, and I can make changes to records, but if I attempt, for instance, to view a user record and choose the 'List my other subscriptions' button, I get the "The list administrator may not view the other subscriptions for this user." error. > >I know this worked previously, but I don't know what changed. > >So far I have changed the site password using mmsitepass, run check_perms -f until there are no permissions errors, and restarted mailman, none of which changed the behavior. > >This is Mailman 2.1.13 running on Mac OS X server 10.5.8 If you just upgraded Mailman, this was changed in 2.1.7. If that is not the explaination, it is probably that you don't have ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = Yes in mm_cfg.py. Be sure and read the documentation in Defaults.py before changing this. Also, if you have upgraded, see the FAQ at . And finally, the bounced reminder should list all the user's subscriptions. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From pennguin at mac.com Thu Apr 1 21:54:39 2010 From: pennguin at mac.com (Rob) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 15:54:39 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site password not functioning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3BE99DE9-486E-49C9-9057-6FF97D581CE2@mac.com> On Apr 1, 2010, at 12:23 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Rob wrote: >> >> While dealing with a flood of returned mails generated by the monthly password reminders sent out today, I noticed that my site admin password no longer functions correctly. Mailman accepts the password, and I can make changes to records, but if I attempt, for instance, to view a user record and choose the 'List my other subscriptions' button, I get the "The list administrator may not view the other subscriptions for this user." error. >> >> I know this worked previously, but I don't know what changed. >> >> So far I have changed the site password using mmsitepass, run check_perms -f until there are no permissions errors, and restarted mailman, none of which changed the behavior. >> >> This is Mailman 2.1.13 running on Mac OS X server 10.5.8 > > > If you just upgraded Mailman, this was changed in 2.1.7. > > If that is not the explaination, it is probably that you don't have > > ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = Yes > > in mm_cfg.py. Be sure and read the documentation in Defaults.py before > changing this. > > Also, if you have upgraded, see the FAQ at > . > > And finally, the bounced reminder should list all the user's > subscriptions. Thanks. I have not recently upgraded or changed Mailman, though there was a recent Apple security update, and I'm not sure if it could have included a Mailman upgrade within it. The apparently huge number of expired addresses which bounced to the -owner address today suggests (based on my understanding of the wiki article you referenced) that there must have been an upgrade included. I added ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = Yes to mm_cfg.py and restarted mailman, but the behavior persists, or else I am not understanding the new behavior of the site admin password. Essentially I use the site admin password to quickly traverse multiple list config options without having to enter the list password for each list, delete users from multiple lists, or change their passwords for them. And, yes, the bounced reminder did list all of the user's subscriptions. Thanks for your help. -Rob From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 1 22:20:39 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 13:20:39 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site password not functioning In-Reply-To: <3BE99DE9-486E-49C9-9057-6FF97D581CE2@mac.com> Message-ID: Rob wrote: > >Thanks. I have not recently upgraded or changed Mailman, though there was a recent Apple security update, and I'm not sure if it could have included a Mailman upgrade within it. The apparently huge number of expired addresses which bounced to the -owner address today suggests (based on my understanding of the wiki article you referenced) that there must have been an upgrade included. According to the reply at , there was. >I added ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = Yes to mm_cfg.py and restarted mailman, but the behavior persists, or else I am not understanding the new behavior of the site admin password. Essentially I use the site admin password to quickly traverse multiple list config options without having to enter the list password for each list, delete users from multiple lists, or change their passwords for them. Did you stop and restart your browser or clear the relevant cookies from the browser? (an admin logout should suffice). If ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = No (the default), when you authenticate with the site password, you get a cookie that says you are authenticated as the list admin, not as the site admin. Thus, you can't do global actions on the user options page and you can't go to another list's admin pages without logging in there. If ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = Yes and you are authenticated as the site admin and you still can't list a users other subscriptions, I think this must be an Apple specific feature/bug. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From pennguin at mac.com Fri Apr 2 00:14:18 2010 From: pennguin at mac.com (Rob) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 18:14:18 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site password not functioning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mark, Thanks, I get Mailman posts as a digest so I hadn't yet received the other reply. I tried quitting the browser and restarting several times, and also deleted cookies manually, but the problem persists. I will do some more digging and let you know what I come up with. Thanks again. -Rob McLear On Apr 1, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Rob wrote: >> >> Thanks. I have not recently upgraded or changed Mailman, though there was a recent Apple security update, and I'm not sure if it could have included a Mailman upgrade within it. The apparently huge number of expired addresses which bounced to the -owner address today suggests (based on my understanding of the wiki article you referenced) that there must have been an upgrade included. > > > According to the reply at > , > there was. > > >> I added ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = Yes to mm_cfg.py and restarted mailman, but the behavior persists, or else I am not understanding the new behavior of the site admin password. Essentially I use the site admin password to quickly traverse multiple list config options without having to enter the list password for each list, delete users from multiple lists, or change their passwords for them. > > > Did you stop and restart your browser or clear the relevant cookies > from the browser? (an admin logout should suffice). > > If ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = No (the default), when you authenticate > with the site password, you get a cookie that says you are > authenticated as the list admin, not as the site admin. Thus, you > can't do global actions on the user options page and you can't go to > another list's admin pages without logging in there. > > If ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = Yes and you are authenticated as the site > admin and you still can't list a users other subscriptions, I think > this must be an Apple specific feature/bug. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > From mark at msapiro.net Fri Apr 2 00:51:33 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 15:51:33 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site password not functioning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Rob wrote: > >I tried quitting the browser and restarting several times, and also deleted cookies manually, but the problem persists. I will do some more digging and let you know what I come up with. Key question #1 is are the cookies named 'listname-admin' or 'site'? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From pennguin at mac.com Fri Apr 2 01:54:50 2010 From: pennguin at mac.com (Rob) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:54:50 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site password not functioning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Apr 1, 2010, at 6:51 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Rob wrote: >> >> I tried quitting the browser and restarting several times, and also deleted cookies manually, but the problem persists. I will do some more digging and let you know what I come up with. > > > Key question #1 is are the cookies named 'listname-admin' or 'site'? > > -- They are named listname+admin Is there any way to determine whether my mailman installation is reading the lines from my mm_cfg.py correctly? -Rob From mark at msapiro.net Fri Apr 2 02:08:28 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 17:08:28 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site password not functioning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Rob wrote: >On Apr 1, 2010, at 6:51 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> Rob wrote: >>> >>> I tried quitting the browser and restarting several times, and also deleted cookies manually, but the problem persists. I will do some more digging and let you know what I come up with. >> >> >> Key question #1 is are the cookies named 'listname-admin' or 'site'? >> >> -- > >They are named listname+admin > >Is there any way to determine whether my mailman installation is reading the lines from my mm_cfg.py correctly? Here's one way. [mark at sbh16 ~]$ /path/to/bin/withlist -i No list name supplied. Python 2.4.3 (#1, Sep 3 2009, 15:37:12) [GCC 4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-46)] on linux2 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. (InteractiveConsole) >>> from Mailman import mm_cfg >>> mm_cfg.ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES False >>> [mark at sbh16 ~]$ You type the command with the correct path to Mailman's bin/withlist. Then you type the two lines after the '>>>' prompts. In your case, the response should be True or 1. At the third prompt, type control-D. Another clue is whether the timestamp on mm_cfg.pyc is more recent than that on mm_cfg.py, although this isn't always definitive due to possible permission issues. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From pennguin at mac.com Fri Apr 2 04:19:24 2010 From: pennguin at mac.com (Rob) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 22:19:24 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site password not functioning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>> >> >> They are named listname+admin >> >> Is there any way to determine whether my mailman installation is reading the lines from my mm_cfg.py correctly? > > > Here's one way. > > [mark at sbh16 ~]$ /path/to/bin/withlist -i > No list name supplied. > Python 2.4.3 (#1, Sep 3 2009, 15:37:12) > [GCC 4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-46)] on linux2 > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. > (InteractiveConsole) >>>> from Mailman import mm_cfg >>>> mm_cfg.ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES > False >>>> > [mark at sbh16 ~]$ > > > You type the command with the correct path to Mailman's bin/withlist. > Then you type the two lines after the '>>>' prompts. In your case, the > response should be True or 1. At the third prompt, type control-D. > > Another clue is whether the timestamp on mm_cfg.pyc is more recent than > that on mm_cfg.py, although this isn't always definitive due to > possible permission issues. >From the withlist command I got a False response. I checked the timestamps as you suggested and found that mm_cfg.pyc had a timestamp from yesterday, likely when I ran the update. However, mm_cfg.py was last changed in 2008, which I know is incorrect since I edited it today. So, "locate mm_cfg.py" and sure enough there are two separate mailman folders; /usr/share/mailman and /usr/local/mailman . Yes indeed, I had edited the wrong file. Don't know where the duplicate came from, I think this server was upgraded from OS X Server 10.3, perhaps there was an old installation. Long story short, edited the correct copy of mm_cfg.py and restarted, all works well again. Thanks so much for your help. -Rob From dimkar at thessaloniki.gr Fri Apr 2 07:35:37 2010 From: dimkar at thessaloniki.gr (=?ISO-8859-7?Q?=C4=E7=EC=DE=F4=F1=E9=EF=F2_=CA=E1=F1=E1=F0=E9=F0=DD?= =?ISO-8859-7?Q?=F1=E7=F2?=) Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2010 08:35:37 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is the best way to avoid fake senders? Message-ID: <4BB58229.9030602@thessaloniki.gr> Hi all, I am investigating ways how to avoid any fake senders trying to get through and approach my recipients. I concluded the following a) use envelope_sender to figure out the sender b) moderate all posts Waiting for your suggestions Thanks in advance Dimitrios From fil at rezo.net Fri Apr 2 09:54:38 2010 From: fil at rezo.net (Fil) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 09:54:38 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is the best way to avoid fake senders? In-Reply-To: <4BB58229.9030602@thessaloniki.gr> References: <4BB58229.9030602@thessaloniki.gr> Message-ID: > I am investigating ways how to avoid any fake senders trying to get through > and approach my recipients. > a) use envelope_sender to figure out the sender might not work in some cases (e.g. I write this email from a GMail account with a rezo.net address) > b) moderate all posts What I do is route the list at server address to me, and use Bcc: list-post at server when I send my emails. I also have moderation on, just in case. -- Fil From mrowe at mojain.com Fri Apr 2 01:11:49 2010 From: mrowe at mojain.com (Michael Rowe) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 10:11:49 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 in production Message-ID: Is anyone using Mailman 3.0 in production? Would I be completely insane to try? The reason I ask is that I'm about to start building a hosted mailing list service based on Mailman. My idea is to wrap all the complexity and configurability of Mailman in a simple web app that non-technical people can easily use. The new API features in 3.0 would be ideal for this, of course. I don't expect to have anything for broad release for some months (I'm doing this as a side project), so it's likely (hopeful?) that 3.0 will be released in time, but I would like to run production lists much sooner than that. They would be small in number and narrow in features, but would still need to work reliably. It just seems a shame to do this with 2.x, when most of the work I'd have to do (interfacing the web app with Mailman scripts) would be totally different in 3.0... -- Michael Rowe From mark at msapiro.net Fri Apr 2 20:38:47 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2010 11:38:47 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is the best way to avoid fake senders? In-Reply-To: <4BB58229.9030602@thessaloniki.gr> References: <4BB58229.9030602@thessaloniki.gr> Message-ID: <4BB639B7.9090101@msapiro.net> On 4/1/2010 10:35 PM, ????????? ??????????? wrote: > > I am investigating ways how to avoid any fake senders trying to get > through and approach my recipients. > > I concluded the following > a) use envelope_sender to figure out the sender If you're thinking of the mm_cfg.py setting USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = Yes, it probably doesn't do what you think. It controls the search order for the Mailman.Message.Message.get_sender() method. If USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = No, the order is From: header, Sender: header, envelope sender, and if USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = Yes, the order is Sender: header, From: header, envelope sender. In the case of most spam messages, there will be no Sender: header, so get_sender() will return the address in the From: header regardless of the USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER setting. However, the main thing is that the get_sender() method is not what is used to determine if a post is from a list member. It is used to determine the sender to match against *_these_nonmembers, but only after the post is determined to be not from a member. Determining if a post is from a list member is done by calling the Mailman.Message.Message.get_senders() method (note get_senders, not get_sender) and checking each address in the returned list until either a member address is found or the list is exhausted. The addresses returned by get_senders() are controled by the setting of SENDER_HEADERS which defaults to ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender') which means return the addresses from (in this order) the From: header the envelope sender the Reply-To: header the Sender: header. If any of those is a list member, the post is determined to be from that member. Thus, if you want only to test the envelope sender for list membership, you would need to put SENDER_HEADERS = (None,) in mm_cfg.py, but even this may not help, as spammers spoof envelope senders too. Also, it makes it difficult for list members to post from alternate addresses by including Reply-To: their member address. > b) moderate all posts Is this a discussion list or a one-way, announce type list? If it's an announce type list, moderate everyone and post using an Approved: header. See the FAQ at for more detail. If this is a discussion list and spammers are spoofing member addresses in order to post, there's not much you can do in Mailman. Moderating everyone works, but it is a burden for moderators. The best approach is to have effective spam filtering ahead of Mailman. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From jc at enexus.com Sat Apr 3 02:37:42 2010 From: jc at enexus.com (John) Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2010 17:37:42 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] reply-to options Message-ID: <692FAB630F4C4317A937DDE36B38B823@JohnVaio> OK I've checked the FAQ's and archives but can't find an answer to this dilemma. Actually I'm suppressed because I can't imagine I'm the only user that has had this issue. So here it is. List members desire to be able to "reply-to" the list when answering a post by clicking their email client's "reply" button but at the same time see the original posters "from" address in the post. I have tried all types of configuration of the General Options "Reply-To: header mugging" but to no avail. Can a "from" and "reply-to" both be in the header? John From mark at msapiro.net Sat Apr 3 05:03:46 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2010 20:03:46 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] reply-to options In-Reply-To: <692FAB630F4C4317A937DDE36B38B823@JohnVaio> References: <692FAB630F4C4317A937DDE36B38B823@JohnVaio> Message-ID: <4BB6B012.3040809@msapiro.net> On 4/2/2010 5:37 PM, John wrote: > > So here it is. List members desire to be able to "reply-to" the list > when answering a post by clicking their email client's "reply" button > but at the same time see the original posters "from" address in the > post. I have tried all types of configuration of the General Options > "Reply-To: header mugging" but to no avail. Can a "from" and > "reply-to" both be in the header? Yes. I really don't want to start another "reply to munging considered (harmful/useful)" debate, so all I will say is go to your list's General Options page and follow the "(Details for reply_goes_to_list)" link and read the page and as much as you want of the articles linked from the page. To answer your question, to make replies go to the list, set reply_goes_to_list to "This list", and if you want to totally disregard where the poster thought a reply should go, also set first_strip_reply_to to Yes. If you have tried this, and it doesn't do what you want, then I don't understand what you want. Personally, I prefer lists that do not mung reply to, and I tend to "reply all" even with MUAs that have a "reply list" function, because I don't in general know that the poster is even a list member, and even if the poster is a list member, she may be a digest member and appreciate getting a more timely response. Others have different opinions. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From stephen at xemacs.org Sat Apr 3 06:58:43 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2010 13:58:43 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] reply-to options In-Reply-To: <692FAB630F4C4317A937DDE36B38B823@JohnVaio> References: <692FAB630F4C4317A937DDE36B38B823@JohnVaio> Message-ID: <8739zdqgho.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> John writes: > So here it is. List members desire to be able to "reply-to" the > list when answering a post by clicking their email client's "reply" > button but at the same time see the original posters "from" address > in the post. It would help if you explained precisely what you tried, and what the users are seeing that is inappropriate. You don't say whether any of the methods you tried allowed the users to reply to list as desired or not. My only guess is that the real problem is that your users are using one of the Outlook family of (broken, non-conforming) MUAs, which helpfully stuff the contents of the (real) "Sender" header field into the (displayed) "From" line. There's a FAQ about that. IOW, the inappropriate header display quite possibly has everything to do with users' software, and nothing to do with the Reply-To setting. > I have tried all types of configuration of the General Options > "Reply-To: header mugging" but to no avail. Can a "from" and > "reply-to" both be in the header? Yes. That is exactly why the Reply-To header was designed: so that the apparent author can be different from the mailbox to which replies are directed. It all works quite well[1] ... if you don't use Microsoft software. Not much you can do about what your users use, but there you go. Footnotes: [1] There are undesirable aspects to it; if you hang out on Mailman lists much you'll find that most of us don't like it very much. But doing without it is hard in environments where most of your users use poorly designed, poorly implemented, and unfixable-because-proprietary software. Gmail isn't much better than Outlook. :-) From dimkar at thessaloniki.gr Sat Apr 3 07:57:26 2010 From: dimkar at thessaloniki.gr (=?UTF-8?B?zpTOt868zq7PhM+BzrnOv8+CIM6azrHPgc6xz4DOuc+Azq3Pgc63z4I=?=) Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2010 08:57:26 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is the best way to avoid fake senders? In-Reply-To: <4BB639B7.9090101@msapiro.net> References: <4BB58229.9030602@thessaloniki.gr> <4BB639B7.9090101@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <4BB6D8C6.2010609@thessaloniki.gr> O/H Mark Sapiro ??????: > On 4/1/2010 10:35 PM, ????????? ??????????? wrote: > >> I am investigating ways how to avoid any fake senders trying to get >> through and approach my recipients. >> >> I concluded the following >> a) use envelope_sender to figure out the sender >> > > > If you're thinking of the mm_cfg.py setting USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = Yes, > it probably doesn't do what you think. It controls the search order for > the Mailman.Message.Message.get_sender() method. If USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER > = No, the order is From: header, Sender: header, envelope sender, and if > USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = Yes, the order is Sender: header, From: header, > envelope sender. > > In the case of most spam messages, there will be no Sender: header, so > get_sender() will return the address in the From: header regardless of > the USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER setting. > > However, the main thing is that the get_sender() method is not what is > used to determine if a post is from a list member. It is used to > determine the sender to match against *_these_nonmembers, but only after > the post is determined to be not from a member. > > Determining if a post is from a list member is done by calling the > Mailman.Message.Message.get_senders() method (note get_senders, not > get_sender) and checking each address in the returned list until either > a member address is found or the list is exhausted. The addresses > returned by get_senders() are controled by the setting of SENDER_HEADERS > which defaults to ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender') which means > return the addresses from (in this order) > the From: header > the envelope sender > the Reply-To: header > the Sender: header. > If any of those is a list member, the post is determined to be from that > member. Thus, if you want only to test the envelope sender for list > membership, you would need to put > > SENDER_HEADERS = (None,) > > in mm_cfg.py, but even this may not help, as spammers spoof envelope > senders too. Also, it makes it difficult for list members to post from > alternate addresses by including Reply-To: their member address. > > > >> b) moderate all posts >> > > > Is this a discussion list or a one-way, announce type list? If it's an > announce type list, moderate everyone and post using an Approved: > header. See the FAQ at for more detail. > > If this is a discussion list and spammers are spoofing member addresses > in order to post, there's not much you can do in Mailman. Moderating > everyone works, but it is a burden for moderators. The best approach is > to have effective spam filtering ahead of Mailman. > > Thanks Mark. This reply will help a lot of people. Are there any other ways including maybe the MTA (eg. Postfix) or other techniques such as client certificates that can add an extra layer of security against fake senders, who are not only spammers but also malicious users. thanks Dimitrios From jc at enexus.com Sun Apr 4 03:12:03 2010 From: jc at enexus.com (John) Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2010 18:12:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] reply-to thread Message-ID: I want to thank Mark and Steven for their reply's. Steven I do believe this may be an Outlook issue, but to clear up my post for Mark here's further explanation. I currently have reply_goes_to "the list" and strip_reply_to set to "no". With this setting both the non-digest and digest show "from" as the list not the original sender (in Outlook or MS mail, don't know about others). With this setting member replies to the post by selecting either "reply" or "reply all" will direct a response back to the list which members like because they do not have to copy/paste the list address in the "to" field. However, members would also like to see the original poster's email address also in the header. Now I understand I can set reply_goes_to to "poster" and the original poster's address will show as "from" BUT if members simply hit "reply" the response goes to the poster and not the list. Members must cut the posters address and paste the list's in the "to" or "cc" field. This seems to be what Steven and Mark have done with the cc field. Now, is there a configuration of the reply_goes_to and strip_reply_to fields on the General Options that will give list members the best of both worlds? Thanks John From mark at msapiro.net Sun Apr 4 03:48:19 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2010 18:48:19 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] reply-to thread In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BB7EFE3.7020402@msapiro.net> On 4/3/2010 6:12 PM, John wrote: > I want to thank Mark and Steven for their reply's. Steven I do > believe this may be an Outlook issue, but to clear up my post for > Mark here's further explanation. I currently have reply_goes_to "the > list" and strip_reply_to set to "no". With this setting both the > non-digest and digest show "from" as the list not the original sender > (in Outlook or MS mail, don't know about others). Digest's are a whole different story. The digest contains messages from perhaps several posters (a digest with a single post is normally a rare exception). The digest is not From: any of them. it is a message from the list containing those several posts. The Reply-To: munging that is configured for a list has no effect on digests. It only affects individual messages. > With this setting > member replies to the post by selecting either "reply" or "reply all" > will direct a response back to the list which members like because > they do not have to copy/paste the list address in the "to" field. > However, members would also like to see the original poster's email > address also in the header. Now I understand I can set reply_goes_to > to "poster" and the original poster's address will show as "from" Not in a digest. > BUT > if members simply hit "reply" the response goes to the poster and not > the list. Members must cut the posters address and paste the list's > in the "to" or "cc" field. This seems to be what Steven and Mark > have done with the cc field. Actually, the mailman-users list does not mung Reply-To: and Stephen and I just "reply-all". > Now, is there a configuration of the > reply_goes_to and strip_reply_to fields on the General Options that > will give list members the best of both worlds? Digests will always be From: the list-request address with Reply-To: the list posting address and Sender: the list-bounces address. That's the way digest's work. A list member can select the MIME format digest, and then the digest will be a MIME multipart/digest message, and the individual messages will be message/rfc822 parts within the multipart digest, and depending on the user's MUA (mail client), the user may be able to open an individual message from the digest and reply to it just as if it had been received as an individual message from the list. This individual message will be From: the poster and with your settings above will have Reply-To: containing the poster's original if any plus the list posting address. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sun Apr 4 04:20:52 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2010 19:20:52 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] reply-to thread In-Reply-To: <4BB7EFE3.7020402@msapiro.net> References: <4BB7EFE3.7020402@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <4BB7F784.1080507@msapiro.net> On 4/3/2010 6:48 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 4/3/2010 6:12 PM, John wrote: >> With this setting both the >> non-digest and digest show "from" as the list not the original sender >> (in Outlook or MS mail, don't know about others). Sorry. I totally missed the "non-digest" above. The non-digest mail has the list as From: because you have General Options -> anonymous_list set to Yes. You want No. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From johnlist at gulfbridge.net Sun Apr 4 16:22:08 2010 From: johnlist at gulfbridge.net (John List) Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 10:22:08 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filter to discard facebook invitations Message-ID: <4BB8A090.6020901@gulfbridge.net> Why doesn't the following discard_these_nonmembers filter work for facebook invitations: ^[!@]*@facebookmail.com -John From mark at msapiro.net Sun Apr 4 17:34:16 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 08:34:16 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filter to discard facebook invitations In-Reply-To: <4BB8A090.6020901@gulfbridge.net> Message-ID: John List wrote: >Why doesn't the following discard_these_nonmembers filter work for >facebook invitations: > >^[!@]*@facebookmail.com Because while it is a valid Python regexp , it doesn't say what you mean. The correct way to say what I think you mean by that is ^[^@]*@facebookmail.com I.e. [^@] matches anything which is not '@'; [!@] matches just '!' or '@'. However, I would use ^.*[@.]facebookmail\.com$ to match any address in the facebookmail.com domain or a sub-domain or ^.*@facebookmail\.com$ to match addresses in only the facebookmail.com domain. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From elaine.ashton at oracle.com Sun Apr 4 17:54:59 2010 From: elaine.ashton at oracle.com (Elaine Ashton) Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 11:54:59 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filter to discard facebook invitations In-Reply-To: <4BB8A090.6020901@gulfbridge.net> References: <4BB8A090.6020901@gulfbridge.net> Message-ID: On Apr 4, 2010, at 10:22 AM, John List wrote: > Why doesn't the following discard_these_nonmembers filter work for facebook invitations: > > ^[!@]*@facebookmail.com In addition to what Mark has already pointed out, I thought I would add that the python regex documentation ( http://docs.python.org/library/re.html#re-syntax ) has a helpful routine for debugging regexen right on the command-line, e.g. Python 2.6.4 (r264:75706, Feb 14 2010, 14:03:47) [C] on sunos5 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> import re >>> def displaymatch(match): ... if match is None: ... return None ... return '' % (match.group(), match.groups()) ... >>> valid = re.compile(r"^[!@]*@facebookmail.com") >>> displaymatch(valid.match("foobar at facebookmail.com")) >>> displaymatch(valid.match("foo!bar at facebookmail.com")) >>> displaymatch(valid.match("!foo!bar at facebookmail.com")) >>> displaymatch(valid.match("@facebookmail.com")) "" >>> displaymatch(valid.match("!@facebookmail.com")) "" >>> valid = re.compile(r"^.*[@.]facebookmail\.com") >>> displaymatch(valid.match("foobar at facebookmail.com")) "" >>> displaymatch(valid.match("foobar at bar.facebookmail.com")) "" I always find it handy since I like to be sure that I'm not matching more (or less) than I bargained for. :) e. From measl at mfn.org Mon Apr 5 07:40:44 2010 From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 00:40:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] [MM2x] Monthly Reminders not going out. Message-ID: Is there a page for troubleshooting this functionality you can refer me to? Thanks! //Alif From mark at msapiro.net Mon Apr 5 16:01:21 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 07:01:21 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] [MM2x] Monthly Reminders not going out. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: J.A. Terranson wrote: > >Is there a page for troubleshooting this functionality you can refer me >to? I don't think so, but the process is very simple. Reminders are sent from Mailman's cron/mailpasswds. Make sure this is in Mailman's crontab and that crond is running. Also see where errors from Mailman's crons are sent. If there is no MAILTO= in the crontab, they are probably sent to the Mailman user which often ends up being delivered to the site list and perhaps being discarded as a non-member post. You can run cron/mailpasswds by hand as the mailman user and see if that works (you can run it for a single list; run "cron/mailpasswds --help" for details). -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From ms419 at freezone.co.uk Tue Apr 6 00:13:23 2010 From: ms419 at freezone.co.uk (Jack Bates) Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 15:13:23 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] public and private messages in the same archive? Message-ID: <1270505603.10905.50.camel@selene> How can I make some messages in a Mailman list archive public, and others private? or what is the closest I can get to this behaviour? I'm setting up mailman at my housing coop, http://campcoop.com/ We're a small group and historically we've no tradition of online communication - so I wanna keep any friction or overhead to a minimum There are many benefits to working in the open and having public list archives - I'd like to encourage this - but there are some messages which, for good reason, members don't want publicly archived To minimize friction, I don't want to confuse members with membership in two mailing lists: one with public archives and one with private archives Is there any way to make some messages public and others private, in the same list archive? It's OK for all messages' subjects to be public in the archive index, so long as following the link to view private messages requires a password One thought was to make -private at campcoop.com an alias of @campcoop.com, then have a cron job periodically crawl the archive and regenerate .htaccess files to require passwords to access any messages sent to -private at campcoop.com From mark at msapiro.net Tue Apr 6 02:19:12 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 17:19:12 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] public and private messages in the same archive? In-Reply-To: <1270505603.10905.50.camel@selene> Message-ID: Jack Bates wrote: > >Is there any way to make some messages public and others private, in the >same list archive? > >It's OK for all messages' subjects to be public in the archive index, so >long as following the link to view private messages requires a password > >One thought was to make -private at campcoop.com an alias of >@campcoop.com, then have a cron job periodically crawl the >archive and regenerate .htaccess files to require passwords to access >any messages sent to -private at campcoop.com You can't do it with .htaccess files because you will have both 'public' and 'private' messages in the same directory and the .htaccess file will apply to all of them. The only way I can think of to do this is to make the archive private and modify Mailman/Cgi/private.py to not require authentication to see the indices for this list or to serve those messages which it somehow identifies as 'public' (or make a separate CGI to do this). I suppose another way would be to have a public archive, but remove the world read permission from the private message's html files. This would be cumbersome though because one would access the archive via the 'pipermail' URL and then get a '402 Forbidden' when attempting to access a private message, and then one would have to use the 'private' URL to access a private message. If I were a list member in this case, I would just always use the 'private' URL and avoid the issue. You could probably do the permission removal with something based on the template in the FAQ at . Do you really think in practice that it will be important to allow non-list-members access to the archive? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dimkar at thessaloniki.gr Tue Apr 6 12:29:14 2010 From: dimkar at thessaloniki.gr (Dimitrios Karapiperis) Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 13:29:14 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Postfix Best practices to avoid fake senders Message-ID: <4BBB0CFA.4030502@thessaloniki.gr> Hi all! I am still investigating ways how to eliminate the danger on malicious postings on a moderated list (announce-only - newsletter) by forged sender or From addresses. Except from the moderation, are there any ways on the MTA side (postfix) asssting on this situation? thanks in advance Dimitrios From mark at msapiro.net Tue Apr 6 15:58:44 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 06:58:44 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Postfix Best practices to avoid fakesenders In-Reply-To: <4BBB0CFA.4030502@thessaloniki.gr> Message-ID: Dimitrios Karapiperis wrote: > >I am still investigating ways how to eliminate the danger on malicious >postings on a moderated list (announce-only - newsletter) by >forged sender or From addresses. > >Except from the moderation, >are there any ways on the MTA side (postfix) asssting on this situation? I don't know about the MTA side, but since this is an announce list, on the Mailman side just moderate everyone and post using an Approved: header. See the FAQ at . The Approved: header contains either the list admin or list moderator password and can also be the first line of the first text/plain part of the message, however in the latter case, if the message is multipart/alternative, removal of the Approved line from the fancy text part is on a best effort basis and is not absolutely guaranteed, so the true header is preferred. Also see the FAQ at for more suggestions about announcement lists. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From ton at oosterhoff.nu Tue Apr 6 11:41:27 2010 From: ton at oosterhoff.nu (Ton Oosterhoff) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 11:41:27 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] hide admin email from listinfo page Message-ID: <000301cad56d$540e8630$fc2b9290$@nu> On a mailing lists public listinfo page I read three lines in the footer: list run by administrative interface (requires authorization) Overview of all mailing lists My question is about the email address. is there any way to prevent this admin email address from showing up on this page? The email is sent to -owner, but the actual text shows the real admin's email address. From mark at msapiro.net Tue Apr 6 17:16:34 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 08:16:34 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] hide admin email from listinfo page In-Reply-To: <000301cad56d$540e8630$fc2b9290$@nu> Message-ID: Ton Oosterhoff wrote: >On a mailing lists public listinfo page I read three lines in the footer: > > > > list run by > > administrative interface (requires authorization) > >Overview of all mailing lists > > > >My question is about the email address. is there any way to prevent this >admin email address from showing up on this page? The email is sent to >-owner, but the actual text shows the real admin's email address. Without patching source code, there are a couple of options. You can go to the admin "Edit the public HTML pages and text files" link and edit the "General list information page" and remove the tag from the end of the body. This will remove the entire footer. You can then add whatever HTML you like in its place. The other option is to put addresses only in moderator, not in owner. Then no address will be displayed in the "run by" line. The down side of this is that moderators do not receive all list owner notifications. They do receive mail to listname-owner and most notices, but they do not receive unrecognized bounce notices. I don't *think* there are any other owner messages not sent to moderators, but I'm not certain. Don't be tempted to put the -owner address in owner. This will cause a mail loop. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From elaine.ashton at oracle.com Tue Apr 6 17:38:51 2010 From: elaine.ashton at oracle.com (Elaine Ashton) Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 11:38:51 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] hide admin email from listinfo page In-Reply-To: <000301cad56d$540e8630$fc2b9290$@nu> References: <000301cad56d$540e8630$fc2b9290$@nu> Message-ID: <0DA78019-ED98-48B9-935A-56D795161CC1@oracle.com> On Apr 6, 2010, at 5:41 AM, Ton Oosterhoff wrote: > On a mailing lists public listinfo page I read three lines in the footer: > > list run by > administrative interface (requires authorization) > Overview of all mailing lists > > My question is about the email address. is there any way to prevent this > admin email address from showing up on this page? The email is sent to > -owner, but the actual text shows the real admin's email address. I've done this as our listinfo pages were getting mined for the owner addresses and then, working on the supposition that the owner is also a subscribed address, spammers would spoof email to the lists using those addresses with some measure of success. If you patch HTMLFormatter.py with: class HTMLFormatter: def GetMailmanFooter(self): - ownertext = COMMASPACE.join([Utils.ObscureEmail(a, 1) - for a in self.owner]) + ownertext = Utils.ObscureEmail(self.GetOwnerEmail()) You'll see listname-owner--at--domain instead of the real owners' address which you can see an example of at http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/advocacy-discuss e. From dag at wieers.com Wed Apr 7 14:37:37 2010 From: dag at wieers.com (Dag Wieers) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 14:37:37 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Approved: header Message-ID: Hi, For the RPMforge project (and for various other organizations) I set up subversion to use svn-mailer to send out commits to a mailinglist. Since we have been getting our vast amount of spam targetting this list as well (using forged email addresses) I today looked at the Approved: header, which is a way for Mailman to authorize certain posts without moderation. http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030685 However svn-mailer only allows to add custom headers prepended with "X-" according to RFC 2822. And today that caused me to publicize our Mailman password to the list by accident while testing ;-) http://opensource.perlig.de/svnmailer/doc-1.0/#groups-custom-header Which leaves us two options if we want to be able to make Mailman and svn-mailer work together for the Approved: header. - Allow svn-mailer to add custom headers without prepending with "X-", so that we can add the Approved: header using the configuration file. - Make Mailman accept X-Approved: as well as Approved: headers. To be honest, I see a benefit in both solutions and my preference would be to accept each of these modifications in both svn-mailer and Mailman. For myself, I patched svn-mailer to not prepend "X-", but I prefer a solution that is accepted by upstream for others. Kind regards, -- -- dag wieers, dag at wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- [Any errors in spelling, tact or fact are transmission errors] From lamsgael at gmail.com Tue Apr 6 17:23:00 2010 From: lamsgael at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ga=C3=ABl_Lams?=) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 17:23:00 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages being archived but suddenly stop being sent Message-ID: Hi all I've mailman 2.1.13 and postfix configured to use a reg-exp with mappings between virtual alias domain recipient addresses and local recipient addresses with the "classical": # mandatory /^(postmaster|root|abuse)@lists\.mydomain\.org$/ $1 at mydomain.net # aliases /^(.+)-(subscribe|on)@(lists\.mydomain\.org)$/ $1-join@$3 /^(.+)-(unsubscribe|off)@(lists\.mydomain\.org)$/ $1-leave@$3 # commands /^(.+)-(post|admin|request|owner|join|leave|confirm|bounces)@(lists\.)?mydomain\.org$/ mailman_$2+$1 # lists (command -post) /^([-a-zA-Z0-9_]+)@lists\.mydomain\.org$/ mailman_post+$1 This server has been running since a few months. New mailing lists have been added recently and it happens that emails sent to these lists are accepted by postfix, transferred to mailman ("delivered to command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post $EXTENSION"), they are archived (they appear on the web-based mailman's archive) but then nothing happen. I don't find any errors on neither the postfix nor the mailman logs. I did try to send an email on a older mailing list and I got the same problem: postfix accepts the message, gives it to mailman, email appears on the web-based archive, but then it's not sent to the members of the mailing lists. I'm quite baffled by this problem and would appreciate any pointer. Kind regards, Ga?l From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 8 02:09:45 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 17:09:45 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Approved: header In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dag Wieers wrote: > > - Make Mailman accept X-Approved: as well as Approved: headers. > >To be honest, I see a benefit in both solutions and my preference would be >to accept each of these modifications in both svn-mailer and Mailman. > >For myself, I patched svn-mailer to not prepend "X-", but I prefer a >solution that is accepted by upstream for others. It appears that while the Approved: header is standard in Usenet for posting to moderated groups, it's use for email and email lists has never been standardized (RFC 2076, Sec 3.4). Thus, your point is well taken. I will change Mailman to accept X-Approved:. It would help our bookkeeping if you would file a bug report at http://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 8 02:24:00 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 17:24:00 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages being archived but suddenly stop being sent In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ga?l Lams wrote: > >This server has been running since a few months. >New mailing lists have been added recently and it happens that emails sent >to these lists are accepted by postfix, transferred to mailman ("delivered >to command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post $EXTENSION"), they are >archived (they appear on the web-based mailman's archive) but then nothing >happen. >I don't find any errors on neither the postfix nor the mailman logs. > >I did try to send an email on a older mailing list and I got the same >problem: postfix accepts the message, gives it to mailman, email appears on >the web-based archive, but then it's not sent to the members of the mailing >lists. > >I'm quite baffled by this problem and would appreciate any pointer. Are there entries for the messages in Mailman's 'smtp' and 'post' logs? Presumably, there are not entries in Mailman's 'smtp-failure' log since you say "I don't find any errors on neither the postfix nor the mailman logs" There are a few possibilities. The first that comes to mind is OutgoingRunner is not running and the messages are still queued in Mailman's out/ queue (this could be /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/out/, /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out/. /var/spool/mailman/out/ or elsewhere depending on how Mailman was installed). The basic FAQ for troubleshooting this issue is at . For your specific symptoms, see item 13. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Mike.Bean at Cartouche.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 7 20:00:52 2010 From: Mike.Bean at Cartouche.demon.co.uk (Mike Bean) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 19:00:52 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML, Rich Text, Embedded and Attached Files and Images Message-ID: I want to install a mail server on my photographic club's web site to allow all members to send questions announcements etc. to all other members using HTML, Rich Text and Plain text format e-mails and allow embedded and attached files and images (although I accept there may be issues with Outlook user). I will want to manage the registration of all users none of whom will be allowed to self-administer their accounts. Is this practical with Mailman and are there downsides. Mike From barry at list.org Thu Apr 8 03:32:10 2010 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 21:32:10 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Approved: header In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100407213210.6db539c1@heresy> On Apr 07, 2010, at 05:09 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >It appears that while the Approved: header is standard in Usenet for >posting to moderated groups, it's use for email and email lists has >never been standardized (RFC 2076, Sec 3.4). Thus, your point is well >taken. I will change Mailman to accept X-Approved:. It would help our >bookkeeping if you would file a bug report at >http://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman. I concur. https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/557750 -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 8 05:04:33 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 20:04:33 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML, Rich Text, Embedded and Attached Files and Images In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mike Bean wrote: > >I want to install a mail server on my photographic club's web site to allow >all members to send questions announcements etc. to all other members using >HTML, Rich Text and Plain text format e-mails and allow embedded and >attached files and images (although I accept there may be issues with >Outlook user). I will want to manage the registration of all users none of >whom will be allowed to self-administer their accounts. > >Is this practical with Mailman and are there downsides. Mailman's content filtering (removal of undesired MIME types/attachments) is tunable and optional, so if you want to accept and deliver mail as posted, it's not a problem. Mailman can add a header and/or footer to delivered posts. If the original message is multipart or not plain text, these are added as separate MIME parts which can confuse some MUAs, but they too are optional. You can set a list for "subscription requires owner approval". Then if you subscribe members through the admin mass subscribe interface and either don't send a list welcome message or modify the welcome template to not include the user's password or option setting link, which can be done through the list admin interface, and turn off monthly password reminders for the list, you can have almost complete control. You can also turn off the RFC 2369 List-* headers if you think they reveal too much. A user who is knowledgeable about Mailman will still be able to go to the user options page (unless you disable it, but you may want to be able to use it as the list admin) and request a password reminder and use it to set her own list options, but this is unlikely to happen in practice. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From lamsgael at gmail.com Thu Apr 8 09:15:50 2010 From: lamsgael at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ga=C3=ABl_Lams?=) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 09:15:50 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages being archived but suddenly stop being sent In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mark, For the answer. Are there entries for the messages in Mailman's 'smtp' and 'post' logs? > Presumably, there are not entries in Mailman's 'smtp-failure' log > since you say "I don't find any errors on neither the postfix nor the > mailman logs" > > There are a few possibilities. The first that comes to mind is > OutgoingRunner is not running and the messages are still queued in > Mailman's out/ queue (this could be /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/out/, > /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out/. /var/spool/mailman/out/ or elsewhere > depending on how Mailman was installed). > Actually the emails finally went out, it just takes them a few hours (probably more last week) to be processed. Regarding mailman's queue, I still have to read the documentation to understand how it works because I remember checking this queue but didn't see a lot of files. Is it that, if I send an email to a list with 11000 members, only one file is created there? As it seems now to be a tuning problem, I started having a look at the mailman's wiki page on performance tuning. Reference is made there to QRUNNER_LOCK_LIFETIME, QRUNNER_PROCESS_LIFETIME, and QRUNNER_MAX_MESSAGES. I did a grep on my mailman's installation but did not find them (I've mailman 2.1.13). Knowing that I host +/- 50 mailing lists, most of them small (3'/40 users) but a few with between 2000 and 11700 users, I'm trying to understand what I can do to improve the tuning. I will also have a look later at postfix's configuration (I will anyway have to do something there because both yahoo and hotmail are slowing us, temporarily refusing the connection) but the fact is that these emails I was waiting for were not in postfix's queue. Kind regards, Ga?l From dan at prowebassociates.com Thu Apr 8 16:30:02 2010 From: dan at prowebassociates.com (Dan Young) Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 10:30:02 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] no list info in cc Message-ID: <4BBDE86A.9010308@prowebassociates.com> I have mailman set up so we can send our group newsletters. The users should never post, just receive info from us. I have it set so they are shown in the To: and my e-mail (sender) is the From:. But mailman is putting the list address in the cc . Is there anyway to alter mailman so it does not include the list address anywhere (bouces or whatever). I want it to appear like I just sent it directly to them. All is great except the cc. Thanks, Dan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 8 18:28:41 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 09:28:41 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] no list info in cc In-Reply-To: <4BBDE86A.9010308@prowebassociates.com> Message-ID: Dan Young wrote: > >I have mailman set up so we can send our group newsletters. >The users should never post, just receive info from us. >I have it set so they are shown in the To: and my e-mail (sender) >is the From:. But mailman is putting the list address in the cc . >Is there anyway to alter mailman so it does not include the list address >anywhere (bouces or whatever). I want it to appear like I just sent it >directly to them. All is great except the cc. That depends on what you mean by alter. If you mean configuration setting, then no. If you mean by patching source code, then yes, you can patch Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py to not add the list address to Cc: for fully personalized lists. You can also change or omit the Sender: and Errors-To: headers in Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py, See the FAQ at . Note that you can also change the actual envelope sender, but if you do, automated bounce processing will not work. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil Thu Apr 8 19:34:20 2010 From: Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil (Hicks, Robert CTR) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 13:34:20 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] UPPER CASE URLs Message-ID: http://my.server.com/MAILMAN/LISTINFO/LIST-GROUP --> goes nowhere but http://my.server.com/mailman/listinfo/list-group --> goes where it should I don't see a redirect anywhere that I can find. Bob From pokui at infocom.co.ug Thu Apr 8 20:06:05 2010 From: pokui at infocom.co.ug (Patrick Okui) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 21:06:05 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] UPPER CASE URLs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8 Apr, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Hicks, Robert CTR wrote: > http://my.server.com/MAILMAN/LISTINFO/LIST-GROUP --> goes nowhere > > but > > http://my.server.com/mailman/listinfo/list-group --> goes where it > should > > I don't see a redirect anywhere that I can find. This is an apache/web server question (I don't think IIS is case sensitive, if it is please correct me). If I'm right in my first assumption about your web server, then check mod_speling as a way to have this go to the same place in either case. http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_speling.html for version 2.0 and your favourite package manager to handle installation for your flavour of OS. The other option is to play with mod_rewrite rules (again check httpd.apache.org). -- patrick From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 8 20:53:46 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 11:53:46 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages being archived but suddenly stop being sent In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BBE263A.2020403@msapiro.net> On 4/8/2010 12:15 AM, Ga?l Lams wrote: > > Actually the emails finally went out, it just takes them a few hours > (probably more last week) to be processed. Regarding mailman's queue, I > still have to read the documentation to understand how it works because I > remember checking this queue but didn't see a lot of files. Is it that, if I > send an email to a list with 11000 members, only one file is created there? Yes. There is only one file per post in the out/ queue regardless of the number of recipients. You can tell when the queue is seriously backlogged from the 'smtp' log. A "normal" log looks like Apr 08 07:47:05 2010 (20026) smtp to list for 209 recips, completed in 4.658 seconds Apr 08 08:00:03 2010 (20026) smtp to list for 1 recips, completed in 0.020 seconds Apr 08 08:00:09 2010 (20026) smtp to list for 1 recips, completed in 0.018 seconds Apr 08 08:30:50 2010 (20026) smtp to list for 206 recips, completed in 4.661 seconds Apr 08 09:45:13 2010 (20026) smtp to list for 206 recips, completed in 4.107 seconds Apr 08 11:06:37 2010 (20026) smtp to list for 209 recips, completed in 4.489 seconds Apr 08 11:09:55 2010 (20026) smtp to list for 209 recips, completed in 4.009 seconds Note that we are delivering on the order of 45 to 50 recipients per second (with full Mailman VERP so a separate SMTP transaction per recipient) and the queue is not backlogged. With a backlogged queue, each entry has a timestamp which is equal to the previous entry's timestamp plus this entry's processing time so there's no idle time between entries. > As it seems now to be a tuning problem, I started having a look at the > mailman's wiki page on performance tuning. Reference is made there to > QRUNNER_LOCK_LIFETIME, QRUNNER_PROCESS_LIFETIME, and QRUNNER_MAX_MESSAGES. I > did a grep on my mailman's installation but did not find them (I've mailman > 2.1.13). Those were Mailman 2.0.x settings. > Knowing that I host +/- 50 mailing lists, most of them small > (3'/40 users) but a few with between 2000 and 11700 users, I'm trying to > understand what I can do to improve the tuning. > > I will also have a look later at postfix's configuration (I will anyway have > to do something there because both yahoo and hotmail are slowing us, > temporarily refusing the connection) but the fact is that these emails I was > waiting for were not in postfix's queue. The Postfix tuning FAQ at may help. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil Thu Apr 8 21:08:46 2010 From: Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil (Hicks, Robert CTR) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 15:08:46 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] UPPER CASE URLs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just in case...there are idiots like me out there. In the virtual host section I appended the following: RewriteEngine On RewriteOptions Inherit RewriteMap lower int:tolower RewriteRule [A-Z] ${lower:%{REQUEST_URI}} [R=301,L] Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Bob -----Original Message----- From: pokui at infocom.co.ug [mailto:pokui at infocom.co.ug] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 2:06 PM To: Hicks, Robert CTR Cc: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] UPPER CASE URLs On 8 Apr, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Hicks, Robert CTR wrote: > http://my.server.com/MAILMAN/LISTINFO/LIST-GROUP --> goes nowhere > > but > > http://my.server.com/mailman/listinfo/list-group --> goes where it > should > > I don't see a redirect anywhere that I can find. This is an apache/web server question (I don't think IIS is case sensitive, if it is please correct me). If I'm right in my first assumption about your web server, then check mod_speling as a way to have this go to the same place in either case. http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_speling.html for version 2.0 and your favourite package manager to handle installation for your flavour of OS. The other option is to play with mod_rewrite rules (again check httpd.apache.org). -- patrick From barry at list.org Thu Apr 8 23:44:13 2010 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 17:44:13 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Logo contest voting is open! Message-ID: <20100408174413.06155797@heresy> Hello everyone. Earlier this year, we announced the contest for a new GNU Mailman logo. We received over 30 entries from many talented artists, and we thank all of them for their generous contribution. The Mailman Steering Committee has narrowed the selection down to 5 finalists, and we have identified a decent free internet voting site. With that, I'd like to announce the opening of the community driven poll for the new GNU Mailman logo! Vote here: http://bit.ly/cUpAA2 The poll will remain open until Friday May 7, 2010 at 2200 UTC. Please participate by ranking the logos from most favorite (1) to least favorite (5). While the voting software will prevent double votes, I have confidence that this community will also be good citizens and play fairly. You will have to enable JavaScript to properly interact with the voting site. GNU Mailman is free software so of course you may forward this announcement to other interested mailing lists. We invite anyone in the free software and open source communities to participate in the vote. Thanks again to all of our great artists, and to you for your continued support. If you have any questions, please do ask. Cheers, -Barry (on behalf of the GNU Mailman Steering Committee) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bibekshrestha at gmail.com Fri Apr 9 09:10:45 2010 From: bibekshrestha at gmail.com (Bibek Shrestha) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 12:55:45 +0545 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hooking to listen for new mails? Message-ID: How can a 3rd party application listen to new incoming mails in mailman? Can this be done? Right now, I'm more thinking into adding a route in our local exim but a direct integration with mailman would be better. Has anything as such been done? -- Bibek Shrestha bibekshrestha at gmail dot com Blog: http://bibekshrestha.com.np Twitter: http://twitter.com/bibstha From mark at msapiro.net Fri Apr 9 16:50:01 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 07:50:01 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hooking to listen for new mails? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bibek Shrestha wrote: >How can a 3rd party application listen to new incoming mails in mailman? >Can this be done? > >Right now, I'm more thinking into adding a route in our local exim but >a direct integration with mailman would be better. >Has anything as such been done? It depends whether you want *all* mail to mailman or just list posts. If you want all mail including mail to -bounces, -owner -request, -subscribe, etc., I think doing it in your exim router is the best option. If you want only mail to list posting addresses, you can do it easily in Mailman with a custom handler. See the FAQ at . If this is an archiving application, see the Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py settings PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From b19141 at anl.gov Fri Apr 9 17:13:15 2010 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 10:13:15 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmbers Regular Expression Message-ID: <20100409151315.7114C30AFC@britaine.cis.anl.gov> I have a question about regular expressions and accept_these_nonmembers. If I want any address in anl.gov or example.com to be able to post, is this correct for the accept_these_nonmembers box? ^.*anl\.gov ^.*example\.com Do I need a "$" at the end of each regular expression? Thanks. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 240, Room 5.B.8 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From mark at msapiro.net Fri Apr 9 17:27:12 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 08:27:12 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmbers Regular Expression In-Reply-To: <20100409151315.7114C30AFC@britaine.cis.anl.gov> Message-ID: Barry Finkel wrote: >I have a question about regular expressions and >accept_these_nonmembers. If I want any address in > > anl.gov >or > example.com > >to be able to post, is this correct for the accept_these_nonmembers box? > > ^.*anl\.gov > ^.*example\.com > >Do I need a "$" at the end of each regular expression? No, you don't need a '$', but consider that "^.*anl\.gov" will not only match all the addresses you want to match but also addresses such as manl.governance at spammer.invalid spammer at zanl.gov and spammer at anl.gov.cc. I suggest either ^.*[@.]anl\.gov$ if you want to also accept sub domains like mail.anl.gov or ^.*@anl\.gov$ if you don't. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de Fri Apr 9 18:46:53 2010 From: mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de (Mailman Admin Universitaet Konstanz) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 18:46:53 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change bounce_score_threshold value? Message-ID: <20100409184653.13516ouxqjou08ot@webmail.uni-konstanz.de> Hi all, we have about 300 lists. We would like to change the bounce_score_threshold value in all existing lists. How could we do it automatically? Next, is it possible to set another default value for the new lists? Thank you! Kind regards, Milda From mark at msapiro.net Fri Apr 9 19:09:44 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 10:09:44 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change bounce_score_threshold value? In-Reply-To: <20100409184653.13516ouxqjou08ot@webmail.uni-konstanz.de> Message-ID: Mailman Admin Universitaet Konstanz wrote: > >we have about 300 lists. We would like to change the >bounce_score_threshold value in all existing lists. How could we do it >automatically? See the FAQ at >Next, is it possible to set another default value for the new lists? >Thank you! Set DEFAULT_BOUNCE_SCORE_THRESHOLD = whatever in mm_cfg/py. See the ##### # Bounce processing defaults. ##### section in Defaults.py -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From stylusstudio at gmail.com Fri Apr 9 22:54:00 2010 From: stylusstudio at gmail.com (Stylus Studio) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 21:54:00 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] -Hi- Message-ID: http://sandbox.schwartzie.com/Tgc8IjbQPK.htm From stumpie1 at sbcglobal.net Sat Apr 10 05:45:28 2010 From: stumpie1 at sbcglobal.net (Stumpie) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 20:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly Announcement Message-ID: <445305.18877.qm@web80607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'd like to send out a monthly announcement reminding users that they are on a list and to remind them of some list etiquette.? I want to do this automatically.? I've looked at the FAQ, but I can't find a way to do this. TIA for help. Paul From mark at msapiro.net Sat Apr 10 06:22:34 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 21:22:34 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly Announcement In-Reply-To: <445305.18877.qm@web80607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <445305.18877.qm@web80607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4BBFFD0A.9010600@msapiro.net> On 4/9/2010 8:45 PM, Stumpie wrote: > I'd like to send out a monthly announcement reminding users that they > are on a list and to remind them of some list etiquette. I want to > do this automatically. I've looked at the FAQ, but I can't find a > way to do this. If you have access to the host server or any server, set up a cron to mail the list once a month with whatever message you want. If you don't have access to a server that reliably runs cron jobs, you might be able to set up something in some web calendar to mail a reminder to your list of some monthly recurring event. I think the hard part of that would be to get the mail to contain the appropriate message, but it might be doable. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From ddewey at cyberthugs.com Sat Apr 10 19:14:38 2010 From: ddewey at cyberthugs.com (Dave Dewey) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 13:14:38 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly Announcement In-Reply-To: <4BBFFD0A.9010600@msapiro.net> References: <445305.18877.qm@web80607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4BBFFD0A.9010600@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <20100410171438.GA20544@huntingcow.cyberthugs.com> Quoting Mark Sapiro (mark at msapiro.net): > On 4/9/2010 8:45 PM, Stumpie wrote: > > I'd like to send out a monthly announcement reminding users that they > > are on a list and to remind them of some list etiquette. I want to > > do this automatically. I've looked at the FAQ, but I can't find a > > way to do this. > > > If you have access to the host server or any server, set up a cron to > mail the list once a month with whatever message you want. This is how I do it for my lists in cron: 00 12 1 * * /usr/bin/mutt LIST at DOMAIN.COM -s 'Monthly List Instructions' < ~/LIST.mailman.txt That all goes on one line, and the LIST.mailman.txt file contains the message you want to send. Mine uses Mutt to send the mail, but there are many other ways/tools to accomplish this. dd From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Sun Apr 11 14:58:13 2010 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 15:58:13 +0300 (IDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving lists Message-ID: Hello, I'm aware of the FAQ entry on this topic.. Hopefully what I'm about to ask isn't really covered there, I don't think it is. I have someone moving their lists off our server which runs regular Mailman to a server running Mailman under CPanel. Since it's a Mailman variant, I'm a bit reluctant to just copy stuff en mass over there, not that I'd be installing it anyway. On the other hand, the list has 679 members, 37 of whom are on digest and 46 of whom have delivery disabled (10 by bounce). Also, the configuration is a bit complicated. So I'm not exactly sure how or if I can do anything to aid migration of the list, particularly since there's no way from the web to subscribe a batch of people to digest or to nomail. Any thoughts? This needs to happen in a few days and I need to start telling peple how I'm going to manage this. Geoff. From mark at msapiro.net Sun Apr 11 18:39:09 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 09:39:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving lists In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Geoff Shang wrote: > >I have someone moving their lists off our server which runs regular >Mailman to a server running Mailman under CPanel. Since it's a Mailman >variant, I'm a bit reluctant to just copy stuff en mass over there, not >that I'd be installing it anyway. On the other hand, the list has 679 >members, 37 of whom are on digest and 46 of whom have delivery disabled >(10 by bounce). Also, the configuration is a bit complicated. > >So I'm not exactly sure how or if I can do anything to aid migration of >the list, particularly since there's no way from the web to subscribe a >batch of people to digest or to nomail. > >Any thoughts? This needs to happen in a few days and I need to start >telling peple how I'm going to manage this. I will assume the people on the cPanel side have shell access to the server. If not, there's not much that can be done. Based on my limited knowledge of how cPanel does things, I would do the following. Note that I have never done this and it may or may not work. 1) Create a list the cPanel way on cPanel. it should have the same name as the existing list which I'll call listname, and create it in the appropriate domain which I'll call example.com. This will result in cPanel creating a directory named (I think) /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/lists/listname_example.com/ This directory will contain at least a file named config.pck 2) Move the config.pck in step 1) aside and replace it with the lists/listname/config.pck from your server. 3) Step 1 should also have created a directory named (I think) /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/archives/private/listname_example.com.mbox/ which I think will be empty. Put the /archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file from your server in this directory. I'm not sure whether it's name should be listname_example.com.mbox or listname.mbox. In fact I'm not sure of any of the names, but you should be able to adjust them as required by looking at other lists. Also, make sure ownership and permissions are consistent with other lists. 4) Here's where it gets tricky. I'm assuming that the command line tools will be in /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/ and that they will work. This assumption may be overly optimistic. Perhaps these next steps should be tested before you begin. cd to /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman and do bin/dumpdb on the config.pck you moved aside in step 2. Look at the values for the following attributes: host_name real_name web_page_url I expect these will be 'example.com', 'Listname', and 'http://example.com/mailman/' respectively. The real question will be if there is some other list attribute whose value is 'listname_example.com'. I suspect not, but if there is, for discussion let's say its name is xxx. Now we hope withlist works. Do bin/withlist -l listname_example.com Hopefully this will respond Loading list listname_example.com (locked) The variable `m' is the test MailList instance >>> Then at the >>> prompts type >>> m.hostname = 'example.com' >>> m.web_page_url = 'http://example.com/mailman/' or what ever the actual values were from dumpdb. If the value of real_name differed from 'listname' only in case, you don't need to change it. You can change it later if desired in the web UI. If you want to be sure, type >>> m.real_name which will respond with what this was on your host which is probably what is wanted, i.e. something which differs only in case from 'listname'. If there was some xxx attribute with a value 'listname_example.com', type >>> m.xxx = 'listname_example.com' or whatever is appropriate to match the cPanel config.pck. Finally type >>> m.Save() and then control-D at the succeeding prompt and withlist should respond >>> Unlocking (but not saving) list: listname_example.com Finalizing Note that if the only changes required are host_name and web_page_url, you should be able to replace the entire withlist interaction with bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname -u example.com but that adds another unknown, potentially buggy piece to the process. 5) For the archives, you should be able to do bin/arch --wipe listname_example.com but here again we have the problem that cPanel's patches are incomplete and only address those things they expect to be used so the above command may not work. If it fails, you could try bin/arch --wipe listname_example.com path/to/listname.mbox where path/to/listname.mbox is an absolute or relative path to the file you created at step 3. If possible please report or get a report on how this all goes. Inquiring minds want to know. If you have problems, or if you just want to do the cPanel Mailman user community a favor, get a tarball containing the Mailman/, bin/, cron/ and scripts/ directories from /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/ and send it to me. This contains only code and generic Mailman information except perhaps for Mailman/mm_cfg.py which I would like to see, but which can be anonymized. The purpose of this is to see cPanel's mods to be able to know more precisely what they are doing. Under the GPL v2 which is the licence that applies to GNU Mailman, cPanel Mailman is a derived work and I don't believe cPanel's mods "can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in themselves", thus cPanel Mailman can be redistributed under the GPL. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Sun Apr 11 20:08:47 2010 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 21:08:47 +0300 (IDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving lists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Apr 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote: > I will assume the people on the cPanel side have shell access to the > server. If not, there's not much that can be done. Wow, that's quite a daunting list of things to do. I'm not sure the admin at the hosting provider will be game to try this, but I will ask. The amount of work it will save *if* it works will be considerable, particularly given that there are also some members on moderation and some not (which I forgot to mention in my previous message). Thanks for this. Geoff. From stephen at xemacs.org Mon Apr 12 03:24:36 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 10:24:36 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving lists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87mxx94g4r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Geoff Shang writes: > On Sun, 11 Apr 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > > I will assume the people on the cPanel side have shell access to the > > server. If not, there's not much that can be done. > > Wow, that's quite a daunting list of things to do. It's actually not as bad as it looks. Mark wrote an assembler language level description of where to get the data you'll need, and what to do with it. I'm not saying it's easy; it will be painstaking work. But a relatively small amount of it! Definitely I encourage you and the new provider to cooperate on this; it is much more likely to get everything right than the obvious alternative manual procedure. From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Mon Apr 12 10:09:26 2010 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:09:26 +0300 (IDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving lists In-Reply-To: <87mxx94g4r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87mxx94g4r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Apr 2010, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > It's actually not as bad as it looks. Mark wrote an assembler > language level description of where to get the data you'll need, and > what to do with it. Oh I'm not particularly daunted by it, especially after rereading it a couple of times. But it's probably daunting for the owner of the small-time hosting company involved. Anyway, the customer has put me in direct contact with him so I'll see what we can get done. Geoff. From Ted.Fitzpatrick at dof.ca.gov Tue Apr 13 00:47:36 2010 From: Ted.Fitzpatrick at dof.ca.gov (Fitzpatrick, Ted) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:47:36 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email from Listname Message-ID: <4868C7E43C828B43BD87AAB46798C37403F029856D@MAILBOX-CCR-1.DOF.FINANCE> Hi, A hacker recently broadcast email to a discussion list by setting the "from:" header to be the name of the list, e.g., listname at emaildomainname.ca.gov What's the best way to resolve this issue? If I block incoming email from this address, will that interfere with Mailman's normal operations? Thanks, Ted From mark at msapiro.net Tue Apr 13 01:08:09 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 16:08:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email from Listname In-Reply-To: <4868C7E43C828B43BD87AAB46798C37403F029856D@MAILBOX-CCR-1.DOF.FINANCE> Message-ID: Fitzpatrick, Ted wrote: > >A hacker recently broadcast email to a discussion list by setting the "from:" header to be the name of the list, e.g., listname at emaildomainname.ca.gov > >What's the best way to resolve this issue? If I block incoming email from this address, will that interfere with Mailman's normal operations? The real question is why was this message accepted? What is the list setting for generic_nonmember_action? What is in accept_these_nonmembers? The listname itself should not be a member of the list, thus a post From: listname would normally be a non-member post unless there was also a Reply-To: or Sender: header with a list member address or the envelope sender address was a list member. Find the message in Mailman's archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file. This will show you the original envelope sender in the "From " separator. Assuming the list is not anonymous, it will also have the original Sender: header if any and if the list doesn't mung Reply-To: it will have the original Reply-To: if any. Hopefully that information will enable you to see why the post was accepted. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mail at leeunderwood.org Tue Apr 13 21:43:12 2010 From: mail at leeunderwood.org (Lee Underwood) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 15:43:12 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribing from Web site Message-ID: <20100413154312.6a1570f6@leeunderwood.org> I have used the subscription form shown at http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030596 but I don't want to have our visitors go to the "subscription results" page at our mailing list provider (which is different from our Web host provider). Is it possible to either change a Mailman setting so that the "results" page is on our Web site; OR how would I go about having the "subscription results" page appear in a popup so the visitors will stay on our site? I'm thinking that maybe I could use the format of our Web site for the results page. That way people could use the navigation back to our site and would not really notice the difference, except for the domain name. I'm a bit new at this so I appreciate any patience. Lee Underwood http://leeunderwood.org/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/LeeUnderwood2 http://twitter.com/Lee_Underwood From mark at msapiro.net Wed Apr 14 16:06:10 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 07:06:10 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribing from Web site In-Reply-To: <20100413154312.6a1570f6@leeunderwood.org> Message-ID: Lee Underwood wrote: >I have used the subscription form shown at http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030596 but I don't want to have our visitors go to the "subscription results" page at our mailing list provider (which is different from our Web host provider). Is it possible to either change a Mailman setting so that the "results" page is on our Web site; OR how would I go about having the "subscription results" page appear in a popup so the visitors will stay on our site? > >I'm thinking that maybe I could use the format of our Web site for the results page. That way people could use the navigation back to our site and would not really notice the difference, except for the domain name. You can edit the results page by going to the list admin "Edit the public HTML pages and text files" link. The only restriction is you can't add any javascript or other script type actions. Since you are using a hosted Mailman, you can't really make other Mailman changes that would affect this. What you can do is make your subscribe form post to a PHP script that would do the subscribe and receive the result andf format that for the user. See the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Ted.Fitzpatrick at dof.ca.gov Wed Apr 14 18:55:04 2010 From: Ted.Fitzpatrick at dof.ca.gov (Fitzpatrick, Ted) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 09:55:04 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email from Listname In-Reply-To: References: <4868C7E43C828B43BD87AAB46798C37403F029856D@MAILBOX-CCR-1.DOF.FINANCE> Message-ID: <4868C7E43C828B43BD87AAB46798C37403F030620B@MAILBOX-CCR-1.DOF.FINANCE> Thank you, Mark. Even though this list is set to be anonymous, I was able to obtain the original sender's email address from the mbox file, as you suggested. It appears that a hacker spoofed a legitimate member email. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 4:08 PM To: Fitzpatrick, Ted; mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Email from Listname Fitzpatrick, Ted wrote: > >A hacker recently broadcast email to a discussion list by setting the "from:" header to be the name of the list, e.g., listname at emaildomainname.ca.gov > >What's the best way to resolve this issue? If I block incoming email from this address, will that interfere with Mailman's normal operations? The real question is why was this message accepted? What is the list setting for generic_nonmember_action? What is in accept_these_nonmembers? The listname itself should not be a member of the list, thus a post From: listname would normally be a non-member post unless there was also a Reply-To: or Sender: header with a list member address or the envelope sender address was a list member. Find the message in Mailman's archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file. This will show you the original envelope sender in the "From " separator. Assuming the list is not anonymous, it will also have the original Sender: header if any and if the list doesn't mung Reply-To: it will have the original Reply-To: if any. Hopefully that information will enable you to see why the post was accepted. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From jeff at taupro.com Wed Apr 14 15:34:53 2010 From: jeff at taupro.com (Jeff Rush) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 08:34:53 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Frustration with set-gid Message-ID: <4BC5C47D.6040109@taupro.com> I'm wrestling with getting $prefix/mail/mailman to run as user 'mailman' under Gentoo Linux and can't see what I'm doing wrong. When running it manually (for debugging my setup): # mail/mailman post dfwPython Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group "root". # bin/check_perms No problems found The executable in question has permissions/ownership: # ls -l mail/ total 12 -r-xr-sr-x 1 root mailman 9664 2010-04-13 23:56 mailman and I wrote a tiny C pgm that just prints out the real/eff uid/gid as a sanity check. It has the exact same permissions/ownership: # ls -l printid -r-xr-sr-x 1 root mailman 7106 2010-04-14 08:13 printid # ./printid Real UID = 0 Effective UID = 0 Real GID = 0 Effective GID = 280 where 280 is the correct GID for group 'mailman', so the set-gid mechanism is working, just not with the mail/mailman executable. This is with mailman-2.1.13 under Linux 2.6.31. What am I overlooking? The mailman package is built from the standard Gentoo Linux distribution, not something I cobbled together. -Jeff From rikr_ at hotmail.com Thu Apr 15 12:34:18 2010 From: rikr_ at hotmail.com (Ricardo F) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:34:18 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automate request admin - moderator request(s) waiting Message-ID: Hello, I receive emails every time one person send an email to the list: The name at name.com mailing list has 2 request(s) waiting for your consideration at: http://name.com/.... Please attend to this at your earliest convenience. This notice of pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily. An the subject: "moderator request(s) waiting" How can i accept all this emails automatically? Thanks. _________________________________________________________________ ?Citas! ?Ligues! ?Salimos? ?C?mo es tu pareja ideal? B?scala en el sitio n?1? ?Reg?strate ya! http://contactos.es.msn.com/?mtcmk=015352 From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 15 19:53:35 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 10:53:35 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving lists In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Geoff Shang wrote: > >See attached. > >I've not yet tried the procedure, so hopefully you'll have looked at it if >I run into trouble. Either way I'll give you a blow-by-blow account of >how it goes. I have looked at the cPanel 2.1.12cp3 code and made a diff to the 2.1.12 base, and it is surprisingly small. Basically cPanel Mailman is Mailman. In particular, config.pck files are the same (there are no additional list attributes) and the file structure within the /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman PREFIX directory seems completely unchanged. As far as I can see, the only significant cPanel changes have to do with listname munging so that lists of the same name can exist in different domains, and most of this appears to be accomplished with their own list creation process and their own Exim router and transport for Mailman lists. I don't have the code for either of these, but it is easy to see how they work. Basically, when cPanel creates a list named listname in the example.com domain, it actually creates a Mailman list named listname_example.com in the example.com domain. The web interface reflects this in that every web URL is of the form http://example.com/mailman/XXX/listname_example.com. Other than that, the web interface is completely standard. Also, with the exception of a minor mod to newlist, and the addition of a --noarchives option to check_perms, the bin/ commands are unchanged and should all work provided the listname_example.com form of the listname is used. The only really significant changes to Mailman itself are mods to the getListAddress() and HasExplicitDest() list methods to account for the fact that the email addresses exposed and used for the listname_example.com list are listname at example.com, etc. rather than listname_example.com at example.com. A similar mod is missing from the CalcRecips handler which is why sibling lists have do be defined using the listname_example.com at example.com address form and work only in a limited way because addresses in To: or Cc: are not of that form. The above, together with some Exim stuff so that mail to the listname at example.com, etc. addresses is delivered to the listname_example.com list is apparently all there is. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From clarkp at mtmary.edu Thu Apr 15 17:50:40 2010 From: clarkp at mtmary.edu (Peter Clark) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 10:50:40 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Relay recipient not found. Message-ID: <4BC735D0.1060601@mtmary.edu> Hello, I apologize if this is trivial but I am not sure how really ask this question and as such I am struggling to google for an answer. I used to have one mail server (in/out bound smtp and imap). I now have an inbound AV/Spam gateway, an imap server (with postfix doing local delivery via lmtp) and an outbound smtp server, for a total of 3 boxes. My instance of mailman is currently installed on the outbound smtp server (maybe this location was a mistake). My problem is that people send to the "staff" list and that leaves the out-smtp, hits the AV/Spam gateway and dies due to "staff" not being a real address (relay_recipient not found). I am not sure if I need to devise a way that the gateway expands the mailman aliases during relay-recipient checks or if I need to try to get the "staff" alias to send to the actual addresses on the outbound side. I have myself a bit confused by this so again, I am sorry that my question is not very clear. Any help with this would be appreciated. From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 15 21:07:26 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:07:26 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Frustration with set-gid In-Reply-To: <4BC5C47D.6040109@taupro.com> Message-ID: Jeff Rush wrote: >I'm wrestling with getting $prefix/mail/mailman to run as user 'mailman' >under Gentoo Linux and can't see what I'm doing wrong. > >When running it manually (for debugging my setup): > > # mail/mailman post dfwPython > Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail > wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but > the system's mail server executed the mail script as > group "root". You are not supposed to run it manually. It is supposed to be run only by the MTA as the expected group, in this case 'mailman' If you insist, you can test it by running sudo -u mailman mail/mailman post dfwPython >What am I overlooking? The mailman package is built from the standard >Gentoo Linux distribution, not something I cobbled together. See the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 15 21:16:04 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:16:04 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automate request admin - moderator request(s)waiting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ricardo F wrote: >An the subject: "moderator request(s) waiting" >How can i accept all this emails automatically? It depends why the messages are being held. If the reason is "post to moderated list", go to the admin Privacy options... -> Sender filters page and set default_member_moderation to No and "Submit Your Changes". Then go to Membership Management..., scroll dowm to Additional Member Tasks # Set everyone's moderation bit, including those members not currently visible and select "off" and press "Set" If the reason is "post by non-member...", and you want to accept non-member posts, go to Privacy options... -> Sender filters and set generic_nonmember_action to Accept. If the reason is something else, what is it? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Thu Apr 15 22:35:07 2010 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 23:35:07 +0300 (IDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving lists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Apr 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Basically cPanel Mailman is Mailman. In particular, config.pck files > are the same (there are no additional list attributes) and the file > structure within the /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman PREFIX > directory seems completely unchanged. So does this mean any changes to the instructions you send the other day? Geoff. From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 15 22:54:15 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 13:54:15 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving lists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BC77CF7.1080703@msapiro.net> On 4/15/2010 1:35 PM, Geoff Shang wrote: > > So does this mean any changes to the instructions you send the other > day? The steps I sent the other day are OK as is, but some uncertainty is removed. Here are some notes. > 1) Create a list the cPanel way on cPanel. it should have the same name > as the existing list which I'll call listname, and create it in the > appropriate domain which I'll call example.com. > > This will result in cPanel creating a directory named (I think) > /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/lists/listname_example.com/ This > directory will contain at least a file named config.pck OK > 2) Move the config.pck in step 1) aside and replace it with the > lists/listname/config.pck from your server. OK > 3) Step 1 should also have created a directory named (I think) > /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/archives/private/listname_example.com.mbox/ > which I think will be empty. Put the > /archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file from your server in > this directory. I'm not sure whether it's name should be > listname_example.com.mbox or listname.mbox. In fact I'm not sure of > any of the names, but you should be able to adjust them as required by > looking at other lists. Also, make sure ownership and permissions are > consistent with other lists. The file name will be listname_example.com.mbox, the same as the directory. > 4) Here's where it gets tricky. I'm assuming that the command line > tools will be in /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/ and that they > will work. This assumption may be overly optimistic. Perhaps these > next steps should be tested before you begin. They are there and they should work. > cd to /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman and do bin/dumpdb on the > config.pck you moved aside in step 2. Look at the values for the > following attributes: > > host_name > real_name > web_page_url > > I expect these will be 'example.com', 'Listname', and > 'http://example.com/mailman/' respectively. The real question will be > if there is some other list attribute whose value is > 'listname_example.com'. I suspect not, but if there is, for discussion > let's say its name is xxx. > > Now we hope withlist works. Do > > bin/withlist -l listname_example.com > > Hopefully this will respond > > Loading list listname_example.com (locked) > The variable `m' is the test MailList instance >>>> > > Then at the >>> prompts type > >>>> m.hostname = 'example.com' >>>> m.web_page_url = 'http://example.com/mailman/' > > or what ever the actual values were from dumpdb. If the value of > real_name differed from 'listname' only in case, you don't need to > change it. You can change it later if desired in the web UI. If you > want to be sure, type > >>>> m.real_name > > which will respond with what this was on your host which is probably > what is wanted, i.e. something which differs only in case from > 'listname'. > > If there was some xxx attribute with a value 'listname_example.com', > type > >>>> m.xxx = 'listname_example.com' > > or whatever is appropriate to match the cPanel config.pck. Finally type > >>>> m.Save() > > and then control-D at the succeeding prompt and withlist should respond > >>>> > Unlocking (but not saving) list: listname_example.com > Finalizing > > Note that if the only changes required are host_name and web_page_url, > you should be able to replace the entire withlist interaction with > > bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname -u example.com > > but that adds another unknown, potentially buggy piece to the process. This entire step should be OK to just do bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname_example.com -u example.com without worrying about the dumpdb or the interactive withlist. > 5) For the archives, you should be able to do > > bin/arch --wipe listname_example.com Which should work without having to specify the path to the .mbox. > but here again we have the problem that cPanel's patches are incomplete > and only address those things they expect to be used so the above > command may not work. If it fails, you could try > > bin/arch --wipe listname_example.com path/to/listname.mbox > > where path/to/listname.mbox is an absolute or relative path to the file > you created at step 3. > Basically, the whole process is the same as the non cPanel case. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rikr_ at hotmail.com Fri Apr 16 10:14:22 2010 From: rikr_ at hotmail.com (Ricardo F) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 10:14:22 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automate request admin - moderator request(s)waiting In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Hello, I don't have the mailman in English, but the reason is something like this: "The message is not addressed explicitly to the list" Thanks > Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:16:04 -0700 > From: mark at msapiro.net > To: rikr_ at hotmail.com; mailman-users at python.org > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Automate request admin - moderator request(s)waiting > > Ricardo F wrote: > > >An the subject: "moderator request(s) waiting" > >How can i accept all this emails automatically? > > > It depends why the messages are being held. If the reason is "post to > moderated list", go to the admin Privacy options... -> Sender filters > page and set default_member_moderation to No and "Submit Your > Changes". Then go to Membership Management..., scroll dowm to > > Additional Member Tasks > > # Set everyone's moderation bit, including those members not currently > visible > > and select "off" and press "Set" > > If the reason is "post by non-member...", and you want to accept > non-member posts, go to Privacy options... -> Sender filters and set > generic_nonmember_action to Accept. > > If the reason is something else, what is it? > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _________________________________________________________________ Recibe un SMS de tu Hotmail vayas donde vayas. ?Date de alta! http://home.mobile.live.com/MobileAttach.mvc/?mkt=es-es From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Fri Apr 16 14:31:41 2010 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 15:31:41 +0300 (IDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving lists In-Reply-To: <4BC77CF7.1080703@msapiro.net> References: <4BC77CF7.1080703@msapiro.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Apr 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote: > The steps I sent the other day are OK as is, but some uncertainty is > removed. Just to report that, so far as I can tell, everything went as expected. There was no reference to the domain in the config.pck file, so I could just run the withlist command as given. No commands generated any errors or warnings that I could see, and all seems to work just fine (at least on the web interface). Thanks so much for your help with this. Geoff. From dennison.williams at gmail.com Fri Apr 16 08:08:38 2010 From: dennison.williams at gmail.com (Dennison Williams) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 23:08:38 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domain list disclosure and list email link issue Message-ID: <4BC7FEE6.9040204@gmail.com> Hello all!, I spent most of the day wrestling mailman and postfix into a multi site installation and now I have it working, except there are a few issues I am still trying to work out. The first is that even though I have "VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Yes" in my Mailman/mm_cfg.py file I am still able to disclose other lists on other domains through the url: http:///mailman/listinfo/. There must be a another way around this, if not it should be considered a minor security flaw. Can anyone point me in the right direction for preventing this? The second issue is that all emails from the list are coming with links from the wrong domain. How can I get these links to reflect the domain that the lists are for? Thanks in advance. -Dennis From mark at msapiro.net Fri Apr 16 17:19:36 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 08:19:36 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domain list disclosure and list email linkissue In-Reply-To: <4BC7FEE6.9040204@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dennison Williams wrote: > >The first is that even though I have "VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Yes" in >my Mailman/mm_cfg.py file I am still able to disclose other lists on >other domains through the url: >http:///mailman/listinfo/. >There must be a another way around this, if not it should be considered >a minor security flaw. Can anyone point me in the right direction for >preventing this? VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW controls what it's name implies, i.e. what lists appear on the listinfo and admin overview page. It is true, that by trying URLs such as you give above, that one could confirm the existence of a list in another domain and find its domain name from its listinfo page. If this is really a security issue for you, there are two choices. 1) Modify all the Mailman/Cgi/*.py modules along the lines of the attached listinfo.patch.txt, or 2) Install a separate Mailman instance for each domain. >The second issue is that all emails from the list are coming with links >from the wrong domain. How can I get these links to reflect the domain >that the lists are for? Web links or email links? If the web links are wrong, the lists must also appear on the wrong listinfo overview page. In any case, make sure every host has a correct add_virtualhost('hosts.web.domain', 'hosts.email.domain') in mm_cfg.py. Then run Mailman's bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname -u web.host.for.this.list for every list. This will fix both web and email domains. Or, if the problem is only email domains, you can go to the web admin General Options page for every list and set the correct host_name attribute near the bottom of the page. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: listinfo.patch.txt URL: From mark at msapiro.net Fri Apr 16 17:34:24 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 08:34:24 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automate request admin - moderatorrequest(s)waiting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ricardo F wrote: > > I don't have the mailman in English, but the reason is something like this: >"The message is not addressed explicitly to the list" The list posting address does not appear in To: or Cc: of the post. Either the users are sending posts to the list via Bcc: or some other method which does not include the list address in To: or Cc: or they are sending to an alias which forwards to the list. Go to the list admin Privacy options... -> Recipient filters page, and for the first case, set require_explicit_destination to No. For the second case, you can do the same, or add the address to which the posts are actually sent to acceptable_aliases. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dennison.williams at gmail.com Fri Apr 16 20:01:19 2010 From: dennison.williams at gmail.com (Dennison Williams) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 11:01:19 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domain list disclosure and list email linkissue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BC8A5EF.8060108@gmail.com> Thanks for your prompt response and your work on mailman. Mark Sapiro wrote: > Dennison Williams wrote: > >> The first is that even though I have "VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Yes" in >> my Mailman/mm_cfg.py file I am still able to disclose other lists on >> other domains through the url: >> http:///mailman/listinfo/. >> There must be a another way around this, if not it should be considered >> a minor security flaw. Can anyone point me in the right direction for >> preventing this? >> > > > VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW controls what it's name implies, i.e. what lists > appear on the listinfo and admin overview page. It is true, that by > trying URLs such as you give above, that one could confirm the > existence of a list in another domain and find its domain name from > its listinfo page. If this is really a security issue for you, there > are two choices. > > 1) Modify all the Mailman/Cgi/*.py modules along the lines of the > attached listinfo.patch.txt, or > > 2) Install a separate Mailman instance for each domain. > > > OK. I think the proper method for this installation is separate mailman installations. >> The second issue is that all emails from the list are coming with links >> > >from the wrong domain. How can I get these links to reflect the domain > >> that the lists are for? >> > > > Web links or email links? If the web links are wrong, the lists must > also appear on the wrong listinfo overview page. In any case, make > sure every host has a correct > > add_virtualhost('hosts.web.domain', 'hosts.email.domain') > > in mm_cfg.py. Then run Mailman's > > bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname -u web.host.for.this.list > > for every list. This will fix both web and email domains. Or, if the > problem is only email domains, you can go to the web admin General > Options page for every list and set the correct host_name attribute > near the bottom of the page. > The issue was the link supplied in the bottom of emails from lists. Your advise partially helped me fix it. The pointer to use seperate email domains though is the solution that will properly solve this for me. Thanks again. From kmccann at cruciverb.com Sat Apr 17 17:56:11 2010 From: kmccann at cruciverb.com (Kevin McCann) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 11:56:11 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests not getting sent Message-ID: Hello, I recently upgraded to the latest 2.X release of Mailman. Ever since, my digest users have not been receiving their emails. Can't see anything in the Mailman logfiles that indicates a problem. Is there a command to try to manually send the digest, and if I can do so, where might I watch for issues? It has been a long time since I've done any Mailman admin stuff. Thanks, Kevin From mark at msapiro.net Sat Apr 17 18:35:21 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 09:35:21 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests not getting sent In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Kevin McCann wrote: > >I recently upgraded to the latest 2.X release of Mailman. Ever since, my >digest users have not been receiving their emails. Can't see anything in >the Mailman logfiles that indicates a problem. Is there a command to try >to manually send the digest, and if I can do so, where might I watch for >issues? It has been a long time since I've done any Mailman admin stuff. Mailman's cron/senddigests is what sends digests. You can run it manually (give the --help option to see options) as root or any user in Mailman's group. If run manually, it should report problems to the terminal. Also, check Mailman's crontab and the system cron logs to see that the crontab is properly installed and it's cron jobs are being run, and see the FAQ at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From listadmin at none.org.uk Sat Apr 17 23:23:51 2010 From: listadmin at none.org.uk (James Kemp) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 22:23:51 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught Runner Exception Message-ID: <4BCA26E7.300@none.org.uk> I'm running mailman 2.1.13 on Ubuntu 9.10 out of the Ubuntu repositories. Mail server is postfix and I also have Apache and spamassassin on the same box, again all from the ubuntu repositories. Over the last couple of weeks I've noticed that a number of legitimate e-mails have failed to be delivered. All of these have been shunted and an error like the one repeated below is written to the error log. I've been through the mailman FAQ, the launchpad documentation and bugs for the ubuntu maintained package and googled a bit. I'm none the wiser about how to fix this problem. 2558 is the pid of the incoming runner, Apr 17 21:22:28 2010 (2558) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer Apr 17 21:22:28 2010 (2558) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline) File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamAssassin.py", line 76, in process score, symbols = check_message(mlist, str(msg)) File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamAssassin.py", line 62, in check_message res = connection.check(spamd.SYMBOLS, message) File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/spamd.py", line 122, in check response = fp.readline() File "/usr/lib/python2.6/socket.py", line 406, in readline data = self._sock.recv(self._rbufsize) error: [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer Apr 17 21:22:28 2010 (2558) SHUNTING: 1271535747.4608049+d7d9c4e9e3ba323d632e260659b522bcbd48eacd -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From mark at msapiro.net Sun Apr 18 00:33:30 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 15:33:30 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught Runner Exception In-Reply-To: <4BCA26E7.300@none.org.uk> Message-ID: James Kemp wrote: > >Over the last couple of weeks I've noticed that a number of legitimate >e-mails have failed to be delivered. All of these have been shunted and >an error like the one repeated below is written to the error log. [...] >Apr 17 21:22:28 2010 (2558) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 104] >Connection reset by peer [...] > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in >_dopipeline > sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata) > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamAssassin.py", line 76, in >process > score, symbols = check_message(mlist, str(msg)) > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamAssassin.py", line 62, in >check_message > res = connection.check(spamd.SYMBOLS, message) > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/spamd.py", line 122, in check > response = fp.readline() > File "/usr/lib/python2.6/socket.py", line 406, in readline > data = self._sock.recv(self._rbufsize) >error: [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer It appears that you (or someone) has installed the Spamassassin.py/spamd.py custom handler from and included it in the GLOBAL_PIPELINE or a lists' pipeline. The "Connection reset by peer" error is occurring while spamd.py is waiting for a response from the spamd daemon. I suspect this is occurring because of a time out. Prior to SA 3.3, there was no limit on how long spamd could take to process a message. If there were DNS issues with RBL lookups for example, there could be very long delays. SA 3.3 has introduced a 300 second time limit, after which it just returns what it found plus a hit on the TIME_LIMIT_EXCEEDED rule. See . If you have SA 3.3, you could configure a shorter time_limit and see if that helps. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sun Apr 18 02:43:58 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 17:43:58 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught Runner Exception In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BCA55CE.5050309@msapiro.net> Mark Sapiro wrote: > It appears that you (or someone) has installed the > Spamassassin.py/spamd.py custom handler from > and included it in > the GLOBAL_PIPELINE or a lists' pipeline. Actually, on closer inspection, I think the most current Spamassassin.py/spamd.py code is at . I have added a patch to spamd in comment # 23 of the report which I think will prevent shunting of the message when this exception occurs, and just log a one-line error log entry instead. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From listadmin at none.org.uk Sun Apr 18 23:26:56 2010 From: listadmin at none.org.uk (James Kemp) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 22:26:56 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught Runner Exception In-Reply-To: <4BCA55CE.5050309@msapiro.net> References: <4BCA55CE.5050309@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <4BCB7920.2020208@none.org.uk> On 18/04/10 01:43, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> It appears that you (or someone) has installed the >> Spamassassin.py/spamd.py custom handler from >> and included it in >> the GLOBAL_PIPELINE or a lists' pipeline. > > Actually, on closer inspection, I think the most current > Spamassassin.py/spamd.py code is at > . > > I have added a patch to spamd in comment # 23 of the report which I > think will prevent shunting of the message when this exception occurs, > and just log a one-line error log entry instead. > Thanks for the help, especially on a Saturday evening! Patch sorted it all out, getting one line logs for the spamassassin timeouts, but at least the legit messages are getting delivered. -- James Kemp my games at http://www.full-moon.info/ From djmikec at djmikec.net Sun Apr 18 18:43:57 2010 From: djmikec at djmikec.net (Michael Capelle) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 11:43:57 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating a site wide admin password Message-ID: <3E4C1D64242546FAAB57898B6F96C6CE@computer1> hello i am an administrator for mailman list on a domain. is there a way to make a site wide admin password? if so, how? From dawn at etoilestudio.com Sat Apr 17 20:39:25 2010 From: dawn at etoilestudio.com (Dawn Gangi) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 14:39:25 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sending a newsletter in HTML code format? Message-ID: <000c01cade5d$4e8f9d40$ebaed7c0$@com> When using mailman to send out a newsletter how does one submit the newletter in HTML code format to be mailed: do you upload the file in HTML code format from directly within mailman and if so I can't find where and how to do this?? I was told that I should send the file in HTML code format from my outlook e-mail to an administrator e-mail that we had assigned and then I go into mailman and accept it. The only problem is that if I send it form outlook in html code format how does the file get uploaded to not display the codes?? Thx, Dawn Dawn M. Gangi, M.D. jpegetoile Etoile Cosmetic Medicine Studio 6 East Main Street Mendham, NJ 07869 973-668-9106 From mark at msapiro.net Mon Apr 19 02:09:23 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 17:09:23 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating a site wide admin password In-Reply-To: <3E4C1D64242546FAAB57898B6F96C6CE@computer1> Message-ID: Michael Capelle wrote: >i am an administrator for mailman list on a domain. >is there a way to make a site wide admin password? >if so, how? With Mailman's command line tool bin/mmsitepass. Give the command "bin/mmsitepass --help" for more information. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon Apr 19 02:16:56 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 17:16:56 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] sending a newsletter in HTML code format? In-Reply-To: <000c01cade5d$4e8f9d40$ebaed7c0$@com> Message-ID: Dawn Gangi wrote: > >When using mailman to send out a newsletter how does one submit the >newletter in HTML code format to be mailed: do you upload the file in HTML >code format from directly within mailman and if so I can't find where and >how to do this?? I was told that I should send the file in HTML code format >from my outlook e-mail to an administrator e-mail that we had assigned and >then I go into mailman and accept it. The only problem is that if I send it >form outlook in html code format how does the file get uploaded to not >display the codes?? Thx, Dawn See the FAQ at for advice on setting up a newsletter type list. For your question, as long as the list's content filtering is turned off, you can just email your newsletter to the list posting address the same as if you were mailing it individually. If your concern is that when you go to the admindb interface to approve the message, you see what looks like raw HTML in the message body, that is just the way it is rendered in the admindb interface. When you accept it, it will be delivered just as if you had sent it directly to the recipients. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From bluria at gmail.com Mon Apr 19 15:25:25 2010 From: bluria at gmail.com (Brian Luria) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 09:25:25 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, SPAM (Spamassassin) and Plesk Message-ID: I have a dedicated server (purchased through godaddy, don't cringe) The server is running Red Hat Fedora Core 8 Control Panel is Plesk 9.2.3 Deluxe Pack I am computer savvy but limited experience with Linux, let alone a linux server. The server has a mailman installation on it. I am trying to configure SPAM protection. I have Spamassassin installed and enabled on the server What I am having difficulty with is finding documentation on interfacing with the Spamassassin installation via the Plesk control panel. There are some minor settings under SPAM filtering, however I cannot figure out where the messages would go if they are tagged as SPAM or any sort of approval que. I have VERY limited exposure to running commands off of terminal but am willing to try. Anyone with experience with this sort of setup - or other advice on how they set a similar server up to prevent SPAM - advice greatly appreciated. From mark at msapiro.net Mon Apr 19 16:06:12 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 07:06:12 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, SPAM (Spamassassin) and Plesk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Brian Luria wrote: > >The server has a mailman installation on it. I am trying to configure SPAM >protection. I have Spamassassin installed and enabled on the server > >What I am having difficulty with is finding documentation on interfacing >with the Spamassassin installation via the Plesk control panel. There are >some minor settings under SPAM filtering, however I cannot figure out where >the messages would go if they are tagged as SPAM or any sort of approval >que. Spamassassin doesn't do that. See . SpamAssassin adds headers to the message and possibly tags the Subject: Examples of added headers are X-Spam-Status: Yes X-Spam-Level: ****** Within Mailman, you can use header_filter_rules to detect and act on these headers. For example, to discard messages with SA scores >= 10 and hold the remaing messages with scores >=5, you would use a rule with regexp ^x-spam-level:\s*\*{10,} and action Discard, and a rule with regexp ^x-spam-level:\s*\*{5,9}(\s|$) and action Hold. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dennis_gray at democratsabroad.org Tue Apr 20 08:41:51 2010 From: dennis_gray at democratsabroad.org (Dennis M. Gray) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 16:41:51 +1000 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can variables be used in the body of an email? Message-ID: <39942.143.119.160.27.1271745711.squirrel@members.democratsabroad.org> I understand how to use variables in the header/footer of mails but is it possible to use variables in the body of an email? From cim2009 at malme.co.uk Tue Apr 20 11:14:05 2010 From: cim2009 at malme.co.uk (Chris Malme) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 10:14:05 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with inappropriate breaks in messages Message-ID: <4BCD705D.5010000@malme.co.uk> Hi all, Newbie here. I have recently moved a list over to Mailman running under Plesk on a VPS. The version of Mailman that I currently have access to is 2.1.9. I had a mbox file to import from my old mail-list system. Originally, I had some problems - the mbox file was large (7 years of archives) and some messages had a literal "\nFrom ", which cause the archiver to break the messages inappropriately. For the moment, I escaped these incidents with a >, although that now means that ">From " appears in the archive, but I thought it was better than having a corrupted archive, and I could rebuild at a later date when I fully understood how Mailman copes with this. However, I have very quickly discovered that if a post to the list contains - in the actual message text - a newline (a single newline, not a double) followed by the word From, Mailman interprets that as a new message and breaks the message at that point, creating a fragment message with no subject line. Note that this is not just the archive - this actually affects messages being sent to the subscribers - i.e. a message containing a newline followed by "From " will be split in two before going out. This really surprised me, as it is not at all unlikely that sometime or other someone will post "From " at the start of a line! Is this a known bug (I did search, and couldn't spot anything), and is it fixed in other versions? Or do I have a rogue version of Mailman installed on my VPS? The behaviour is consistent and repeatable. Regards Chris From cim2009 at malme.co.uk Tue Apr 20 11:33:51 2010 From: cim2009 at malme.co.uk (Chris Malme) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 10:33:51 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with inappropriate breaks in messages In-Reply-To: <4BCD705D.5010000@malme.co.uk> References: <4BCD705D.5010000@malme.co.uk> Message-ID: <4BCD74FF.2030302@malme.co.uk> Further to my earlier post. > Note that this is not just the archive - this actually affects messages > being sent to the subscribers - i.e. a message containing a newline followed > by "From " will be split in two before going out. Further testing shows that this is incorrect. The problem affects only the archive, not the mail-list messages going to the subscribers. However, the archive problem is repeatable. Any instance in the message text of "From " following a single newline is interpreted as a new message. From rikr_ at hotmail.com Mon Apr 19 11:54:16 2010 From: rikr_ at hotmail.com (Ricardo F) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:54:16 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automate request admin - moderatorrequest(s)waiting In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Thanks, Was this, I resolved the problem. Regards. > Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 08:34:24 -0700 > From: mark at msapiro.net > To: rikr_ at hotmail.com; mailman-users at python.org > Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Automate request admin - moderatorrequest(s)waiting > > Ricardo F wrote: > > > > I don't have the mailman in English, but the reason is something like this: > >"The message is not addressed explicitly to the list" > > > The list posting address does not appear in To: or Cc: of the post. > Either the users are sending posts to the list via Bcc: or some other > method which does not include the list address in To: or Cc: or they > are sending to an alias which forwards to the list. > > Go to the list admin Privacy options... -> Recipient filters page, and > for the first case, set require_explicit_destination to No. For the > second case, you can do the same, or add the address to which the > posts are actually sent to acceptable_aliases. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _________________________________________________________________ Recibe un SMS de tu Hotmail vayas donde vayas. ?Date de alta! http://home.mobile.live.com/MobileAttach.mvc/?mkt=es-es From mark at msapiro.net Tue Apr 20 17:06:25 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 08:06:25 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can variables be used in the body of an email? In-Reply-To: <39942.143.119.160.27.1271745711.squirrel@members.democratsabroad.org> Message-ID: Dennis M. Gray wrote: >I understand how to use variables in the header/footer of mails but is it >possible to use variables in the body of an email? Not in standard Mailman. You could implement a custom handler (see ) to do the substitutions in the message body, but short of something like that, Mailman won't do it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From terri at zone12.com Tue Apr 20 17:24:06 2010 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 11:24:06 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with inappropriate breaks in messages In-Reply-To: <4BCD74FF.2030302@malme.co.uk> References: <4BCD705D.5010000@malme.co.uk> <4BCD74FF.2030302@malme.co.uk> Message-ID: <4BCDC716.3040908@zone12.com> There's a program in bin called "cleanarch" that can be run on your archive to fix this problem. It cleans up the offending From lines from older mbox files so that you can run arch again and generate correct html versions of the archives. Terri Chris Malme wrote: > Further to my earlier post. > >> Note that this is not just the archive - this actually affects messages >> being sent to the subscribers - i.e. a message containing a newline followed >> by "From " will be split in two before going out. > > Further testing shows that this is incorrect. The problem affects only the > archive, not the mail-list messages going to the subscribers. > > However, the archive problem is repeatable. Any instance in the message text > of "From " following a single newline is interpreted as a new message. > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/terri%40zone12.com > From mark at msapiro.net Tue Apr 20 17:26:39 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 08:26:39 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with inappropriate breaks in messages In-Reply-To: <4BCD74FF.2030302@malme.co.uk> Message-ID: Chris Malme wrote: > >Further testing shows that this is incorrect. The problem affects only the >archive, not the mail-list messages going to the subscribers. > >However, the archive problem is repeatable. Any instance in the message text >of "From " following a single newline is interpreted as a new message. What Mailman version is this? This was a bug at one time, but it was fixed years ago. There was a change in this area between 2.1.12 and 2.1.13, but that change only affected outgoing messages, not archives or digests. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue Apr 20 17:42:22 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 08:42:22 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with inappropriate breaks in messages In-Reply-To: <4BCDC716.3040908@zone12.com> Message-ID: Terri Oda wrote: >There's a program in bin called "cleanarch" that can be run on your >archive to fix this problem. It cleans up the offending From lines from >older mbox files so that you can run arch again and generate correct >html versions of the archives. Terri is correct. cleanarch will escape the unescaped From_ lines in the .mbox, but it seems you have done that yourself in some way, and the issue is with new messages. So the question is why is this happening with new messages? Again, what Mailman version is this? Also note that escaping From_ by preceding it with '>' is the accepted way to deal with this. Many MUAs will do it before sending the message and MDAs will do it too before delivering a message. It is unusual to be able to pass a From_ through email from end to end without it being escaped to >From_ somewhere between source and destination. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue Apr 20 19:14:32 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 10:14:32 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with inappropriate breaks in messages In-Reply-To: <4BCDD685.5050906@malme.co.uk> Message-ID: Chris Malme wrote: > >That is correct, I did it manually (or rather, with a quick script I wrote), >preceding each message text line that begins with a "From " with a ">". This >enabled the mbox to be imported into the Mailman Archive without splitting >messages as it did when I first tried it. However, those "From " lines that >I manually escaped are showing clearly in the Archive *with* the escape >character - i.e. as ">From". That is the normal way of dealing with messages containing From_ in the message body. It's not just Mailman or pipermail, and it's problematic to unescape them for display, because while the escaping is normal, there is no standard for escaping/unescaping so when you see >From_ in a message, you don't know if it is an escaped From_, a quoted From_ or a literal >From_. >Furthermore any new emails to the list that >have a newline/From in the message text are archiving incorrectly. > >> So the question is why is this happening with new messages? Again, what >> Mailman version is this? > >Sorry, I should have stated earlier. This is Mailman version 2.1.9, which is >the version that the folk who support my VPS (using Plesk) have rolled out. The issue with unescaped From_ in the body causing archive corruption was fixed long before Mailman 2.1.9 >To go to a more recent version is not impossible, but not trivial for me (a >Linux VPS newbie), so I wanted to see if it was the solution before rolling >my sleeves up. You shouldn't need to. Mailman 2.1.9 should not have this problem. >> Also note that escaping From_ by preceding it with '>' is the accepted >> way to deal with this. Many MUAs will do it before sending the message >> and MDAs will do it too before delivering a message. It is unusual to >> be able to pass a From_ through email from end to end without it being >> escaped to >From_ somewhere between source and destination. > >That is what is puzzling me. I am able to send an email from Thunderbird >through my VPS's mail server and see it go straight into the archive >unescaped, splitting into multiple messages at every incidence of >newline/From. I can also do it from Gmail. It doesn't happen with every MUA/MTA/MDA, but for example, I just sent such a message from Tbird 3.0.3 via Exim on localhost to a mailbox on localhost, and the From_ was unescaped in Tbird's Sent folder, but it was escaped in the recipient mailbox. >I have a Test list set up that I am happy for anyone to access, if it might >shed any light on the matter. The Test list does not have the imported >archive, but it demonstrates the same behaviour regarding new messages. > >I'm happy to post the list URL if that is appropriate. I believe you, so I don't think I need to see the test list. The question is why isn't Mailman escaping the From_ when it archives and sends the message. It actually relies on the Python email library to do this, but Mailman 2.1.9 should install its own version of the email package in Mailman's pythonlib/ directory, and this should always escape From_ lines when converting an email.Message.Message object to text. Why it doesn't is the question. Also curious is that I think you said the problem occurs with "text\nFrom " in the body, but not with "text\n\nFrom ". If I understood that correctly, that is really strange. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From prateek.govila at bluecoat.com Tue Apr 20 17:56:52 2010 From: prateek.govila at bluecoat.com (Govila, Prateek) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 08:56:52 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Welcome to the "Mailman-Users" mailing list (Digest mode) References: Message-ID: mailman version 2.1.11. I have created a mailing list "prat" I am able to send a mail to to prat at domainname.com but not able to send mail to prat-request at domain.com. please suggest. ________________________________ From: mailman-users-bounces+prateek.govila=bluecoat.com at python.org on behalf of mailman-users-request at python.org Sent: Tue 4/20/2010 8:47 AM To: Govila, Prateek Subject: Welcome to the "Mailman-Users" mailing list (Digest mode) Welcome to the Mailman-Users at python.org mailing list! Don't forget to check out the Mailman FAQ Wiki at: http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Frequently+Asked+Questions and the searchable archives at http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Posts from new subscribers will go through a human moderation process for the first few posts. Once you demonstrate that you are a real human being, you have read and understood the instructions, and are not just trying to spam the list, your moderation bit should be cleared. Also note that all posts made to the list will be publicly archived. In order to protect the integrity of the list archives, we do not routinely agree to remove or obscure posts that are in the archives. We only do this in exceptional circumstances such as if someone has posted personal/private information about someone else, or an obviously private e-mail has accidentally been posted to the list. The Mailman Security Policy is detailed in FAQ 1.27 at . Before posting any messages to this mailing list, please make sure that you have read and understood this policy. To post to this list, send your email to: mailman-users at python.org General information about the mailing list is at: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your subscription page at: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/prateek.govila%40bluecoat.com You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to: Mailman-Users-request at python.org with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. You must know your password to change your options (including changing the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: prateek123 Normally, Mailman will remind you of your python.org mailing list passwords once every month, although you can disable this if you prefer. This reminder will also include instructions on how to unsubscribe or change your account options. There is also a button on your options page that will email your current password to you. From cherry at stanford.edu Tue Apr 20 22:28:14 2010 From: cherry at stanford.edu (Mike Cherry) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 13:28:14 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up config.pck Message-ID: Is there a utility / script that will allow me to clean up very large config.pck files? I have a couple lists that receive huge amounts of spam. My problem is the saved bounced information is never removed. I've got a couple config.pck files that are >15M. The size of these files is slowing down the delivery of message as it needs to be read over and over as messages are processed. -Mike From mark at msapiro.net Wed Apr 21 06:24:42 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:24:42 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Welcome to the "Mailman-Users" mailing list(Digest mode) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Govila, Prateek wrote: > >I have created a mailing list "prat" >I am able to send a mail to to prat at domainname.com but not able to send mail to prat-request at domain.com. What is your MTA? Does it use aliases to deliver to Mailman? If so, have you installed all 10 aliases for the prat list including the prat-request alias? Also note, you should change your mailman-users at python.org password now that you have exposed it to the entire world. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Apr 21 06:43:18 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:43:18 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up config.pck In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mike Cherry wrote: >Is there a utility / script that will allow me to clean up very large config.pck files? I have a couple lists that receive huge amounts of spam. My problem is the saved bounced information is never removed. I've got a couple config.pck files that are >15M. The size of these files is slowing down the delivery of message as it needs to be read over and over as messages are processed. Are you sure that the issue is saved bounce info? Spam should not cause bounce info to be saved. Unrecognized bounces (spam sent to the list-bounces address) does not store bounce info. Have you run Mailman's bin/dumpdb on the config.pck files to verify that the size is due to stale bounce info? If you have a 15MB config.pck, that would be the expected size for a list of some tens of thousands of members. If your list has significantly fewer members than that, then I am really curious to know what is in it. Anyway, yes there is a script. See (mirrored at ). This withlist script will remove all bounce info for non-members (there should never be any, but ...) and will also remove stale bounce info for list members. It will not remove non-stale bounce info, and it will not remove bounce info for a member with delivery disabled by bounce, as that is still used to control the notices and eventual removal of the member by cron/disabled. Let us know how this works for you. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From cim2009 at malme.co.uk Wed Apr 21 11:35:09 2010 From: cim2009 at malme.co.uk (Chris Malme) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 10:35:09 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with inappropriate breaks in messages In-Reply-To: <4BCD74FF.2030302@malme.co.uk> References: <4BCD705D.5010000@malme.co.uk> <4BCD74FF.2030302@malme.co.uk> Message-ID: <4BCEC6CD.50307@malme.co.uk> On 20/04/2010 18:14, Mark Sapiro wrote: > That is the normal way of dealing with messages containing From_ in the > message body. It's not just Mailman or pipermail, and it's problematic > to unescape them for display, because while the escaping is normal, > there is no standard for escaping/unescaping so when you see >From_ in > a message, you don't know if it is an escaped From_, a quoted From_ or > a literal >From_. OK - that is different behaviour from the software I had been using, but if that is how it works, then I am happy - I was more concerned that it was an indication my installation might be broken than anything else. I take your point about not knowing which it is, but in my experience, a quoted From_ is most usually >_From_ not >From_, and I had been happy to take a potential hit on the exceptions to this, as they would be far less common than the escaped From_. But this is fairly unimportant, compared to the other problem of archive corruption. > The issue with unescaped From_ in the body causing archive corruption > was fixed long before Mailman 2.1.9 >> To go to a more recent version is not impossible, but not trivial for me >> (a Linux VPS newbie), so I wanted to see if it was the solution before >> rolling my sleeves up. > > You shouldn't need to. Mailman 2.1.9 should not have this problem. OK - that means the weirdness in my specific system, not in Mailman. Not ideal, but at least I have narrowed things down a bit. > I believe you, so I don't think I need to see the test list. The > question is why isn't Mailman escaping the From_ when it archives and > sends the message. > > It actually relies on the Python email library to do this, but Mailman > 2.1.9 should install its own version of the email package in Mailman's > pythonlib/ directory, and this should always escape From_ lines when > converting an email.Message.Message object to text. Why it doesn't is > the question. > > Also curious is that I think you said the problem occurs with > "text\nFrom " in the body, but not with "text\n\nFrom ". If I > understood that correctly, that is really strange. Ah, no, it is happening with both "text\nFrom " and "text\n\nFrom ". It's just that I encountered "text\nFrom " very early on. (the mail-list is primarily about songwriting, which means we get lyrics posted to the list. Hence there is a higher than normal chance that you will get new lines starting with capitals.) Anyway, many thanks for your help. While it hasn't resolved my immediate problem, it has told me what it isn't, which is a great help. I'll go away and have a fiddle. I am actually tempted to reinstall 2.1.9 myself from scratch, which should have less issues regarding support than going to a new version. Originally, my VPS was supposed to have Mailman (not sure what version), but I had no access to it via Plesk (this is before I knew how to configure it direct). The VPS support then said they had upgraded it, which seemed to fix the problem. I can't help but wonder if they did a botched job of it. First thing to check is if Mailman's pythonlib/ directory, which you mention exists. If I get anywhere, I will let you know! Chris From cim2009 at malme.co.uk Wed Apr 21 14:38:30 2010 From: cim2009 at malme.co.uk (Chris Malme) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 13:38:30 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with inappropriate breaks in messages Message-ID: <4BCEF1C6.1010201@malme.co.uk> Based on the comments received here, I have gone back and had another look at this, and discovered I was wrong on a number of important issues. Apologies for this, but I am (obviously) new to Mailman, and didn't completely realise what I was seeing, the first time. This time, having looked at the actual mbox file held in the Archive folder, I can see that incidents of "\nFrom " in the message body of new messages have been received correctly escaped by a ">"; and the mbox file clearly has them marked as >From_ lines. So that is all good. However, the Pipermail Archive does consistently split messages whenever a message-body "\nFrom " occurs, as I described earlier, with the second part being attributed to "bogus at does.not.exist.com". I've found that if I then run arch on the list (using the mbox file) the Archive is created correctly, without this splitting, although any subsequent messages with a message-body "\nFrom " cause further split messages. So it looks like my problem is with the dynamic creation of the Pipermail Archive, rather than the generation from the mbox file. I haven't yet pinned down what script/process is responsible for this. This suggests a perfectly acceptable "quick fix" of a daily cron job running Arch on the list, but I will look into this further when I get time. Many thanks for your help, which pointed me in the right direction. Chris From mark at msapiro.net Wed Apr 21 16:48:48 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 07:48:48 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with inappropriate breaks in messages In-Reply-To: <4BCEF1C6.1010201@malme.co.uk> Message-ID: Chris Malme wrote: > >However, the Pipermail Archive does consistently split messages whenever a >message-body "\nFrom " occurs, as I described earlier, with the second part >being attributed to "bogus at does.not.exist.com". > [...] > >So it looks like my problem is with the dynamic creation of the Pipermail >Archive, rather than the generation from the mbox file. I haven't yet pinned >down what script/process is responsible for this. A word of caution. The archiver is a tangled web of subclasses and overridden methods and is quite difficult to follow. That said, I suspect the underlying OS here is Debian/Ubuntu and Mailman is the Debian/Ubuntu package which has patches in this area which are causing this. The patch is to fix . The 2.1.9 patch is at (if that URL doesn't work, go to and navigate from there - the direct URL is not stable and changes every time there is a package update). I don't specifically recall if this patch causes your problem or not, but I'm pretty sure it does. I think you can fix it by finding the added code around line 200 of Mailman/Message.py and changing g = Generator(fp) to g = Generator(fp, mangle_from_=True) I have installed a refactored version of this patch upstream as of Mailman 2.1.13 which doesn't have this problem. If you're interested, I can provide more detail on this, but I think the above change will fix your problem. It will also cause From_ to be escaped in outgoing non-digest messages (it is already escaped in digests) which may be an esthetic issue for some recipients, but for others, it will have been escaped anyway by an MTA/MDA in the delivery path. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From cim2009 at malme.co.uk Wed Apr 21 17:12:49 2010 From: cim2009 at malme.co.uk (Chris Malme) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 16:12:49 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with inappropriate breaks in messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BCF15F1.1040906@malme.co.uk> What a star! Thanks Mark, I will take a look at it later today. Yes, it is Debian/Ubuntu - I must learn to specify this things from the start. Chris From b19141 at anl.gov Wed Apr 21 18:28:25 2010 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 11:28:25 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with inappropriate breaks in messages In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Mark Sapiro ' dated: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 07:48:48 -0700 Message-ID: <20100421162825.7DB0B406BA@britaine.cis.anl.gov> Mark Sapiro wrote: >That said, I suspect the underlying OS here is Debian/Ubuntu and >Mailman is the Debian/Ubuntu package which has patches in this area >which are causing this. As I have written on this forum before, the Debian/Ubuntu package for Mailman has a large number of patches. One I know is definitely wrong. Most of the others had no documentation, so I could not determine what the patch was doing. For three security patches, two matched the SourceForge source, and one did not. As I could not determine exactly what I would be running, I decided to build my own Mailman package from the SourceForge source. The only patch I kept was one that places file in proper libraries for Ubuntu/Debian. I can provide details for anyone who is interested. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 240, Room 5.B.8 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From cherry at stanford.edu Wed Apr 21 18:31:53 2010 From: cherry at stanford.edu (Mike Cherry) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 09:31:53 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up config.pck Message-ID: <47EB03D4-734B-4B6E-8F54-9AD96E2D2A95@stanford.edu> Mark, Of course you were right the size of my config.pck was not because of the bounce information. The with script did remove some old bounce info but not much. In looking at the dumpdb txt I see the issue is with the hold_and_cmd_autoresponses. The size of the file does not correlate with the number of subscribers rather the amount of spam the list recieves. list 1; config.pck size 16M, 1.2M hold_and_cmd_autoresponses addresses, 113 subscribers list 2; config.pck size 13M, 1.0M hold_and_cmd_autoresponses addresses, 584 subscribers list 3; config.pck size 1.1M, 80K hold_and_cmd_autoresponses addresses, 62 subscribers I'm assuming that 1.2 million addresses in hold_and_cmd_autoresponses might be keeping the file large? I am assuming that my problem is with the size of the file as lists with smaller config.pck files release locks quicker and the web admin interface starts much much faster. In Defaults.pk I have MAX_AUTORESPONSES_PER_DAY = 10. -Mike From mark at msapiro.net Wed Apr 21 19:52:20 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 10:52:20 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up config.pck In-Reply-To: <47EB03D4-734B-4B6E-8F54-9AD96E2D2A95@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Mike Cherry wrote: > >In looking at the dumpdb txt I see the issue is with the hold_and_cmd_autoresponses. The size of the file does not correlate with the number of subscribers rather the amount of spam the list recieves. > >list 1; config.pck size 16M, 1.2M hold_and_cmd_autoresponses addresses, 113 subscribers > >list 2; config.pck size 13M, 1.0M hold_and_cmd_autoresponses addresses, 584 subscribers > >list 3; config.pck size 1.1M, 80K hold_and_cmd_autoresponses addresses, 62 subscribers > > >I'm assuming that 1.2 million addresses in hold_and_cmd_autoresponses might be keeping the file large? I am assuming that my problem is with the size of the file as lists with smaller config.pck files release locks quicker and the web admin interface starts much much faster. > >In Defaults.pk I have MAX_AUTORESPONSES_PER_DAY = 10. Your assumptions are more or less correct, but is cron/checkdbs running? It should be deleting all but the current day's hold_and_cmd_autoresponses entries from every config.pck every time it runs. If you're getting spam to a list from a million addresses a day, you really do have a spam problem :( So I'm guessing that cron/checkdbs is not running or something is going wrong with that process. See the FAQ at which may be relevant. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From cherry at stanford.edu Wed Apr 21 21:25:13 2010 From: cherry at stanford.edu (Mike Cherry) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 12:25:13 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up config.pck In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9D695A39-C618-4C58-A0E6-1990DF6ED4AF@stanford.edu> Mark, Thanks the cron/checkdbs script had not been added to the crontab. Running that script resulted in list1's config.pck shrinking to just 40K. Cheers, Mike On Apr 21, 2010, at 10:52 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Mike Cherry wrote: >> >> In looking at the dumpdb txt I see the issue is with the hold_and_cmd_autoresponses. The size of the file does not correlate with the number of subscribers rather the amount of spam the list recieves. >> >> list 1; config.pck size 16M, 1.2M hold_and_cmd_autoresponses addresses, 113 subscribers >> >> list 2; config.pck size 13M, 1.0M hold_and_cmd_autoresponses addresses, 584 subscribers >> >> list 3; config.pck size 1.1M, 80K hold_and_cmd_autoresponses addresses, 62 subscribers >> >> >> I'm assuming that 1.2 million addresses in hold_and_cmd_autoresponses might be keeping the file large? I am assuming that my problem is with the size of the file as lists with smaller config.pck files release locks quicker and the web admin interface starts much much faster. >> >> In Defaults.pk I have MAX_AUTORESPONSES_PER_DAY = 10. > > > Your assumptions are more or less correct, but is cron/checkdbs > running? It should be deleting all but the current day's > hold_and_cmd_autoresponses entries from every config.pck every time it > runs. > > If you're getting spam to a list from a million addresses a day, you > really do have a spam problem :( > > So I'm guessing that cron/checkdbs is not running or something is going > wrong with that process. See the FAQ at > which may be relevant. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From bluria at gmail.com Wed Apr 21 23:18:42 2010 From: bluria at gmail.com (Brian Luria) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 17:18:42 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List all users on one page Message-ID: Is there a way to force all users to be listed on one page, versus having to click through the alphabetical letters? -- Brian J. Luria DVM, DACVIM Bluepearl Veterinary Partners Florida Veterinary Specialists Tampa: (813) 933-8944 Clearwater: (727) 572-0132 Brandon: (813) 571-3303 www.bluepearlvet.com From mark at msapiro.net Wed Apr 21 23:29:13 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 14:29:13 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List all users on one page In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Brian Luria wrote: >Is there a way to force all users to be listed on one page, versus having to >click through the alphabetical letters? If your Mailman version is 2.1.10 or later, set admin_member_chunksize on the list's General Options page to a number greater than the number of list members. For older versions, set it with bin/withlist or bin/config_list. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From bluria at gmail.com Thu Apr 22 04:34:12 2010 From: bluria at gmail.com (Brian Luria) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 22:34:12 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List all users on one page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you. Looks like I have 2.1.9 - (have to look at upgrading) Where is the best place for me to start understanding terminal commands like you list there. I am honestly not even sure where to start. I am only used to the web based interface. On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Brian Luria wrote: > > >Is there a way to force all users to be listed on one page, versus having > to > >click through the alphabetical letters? > > > If your Mailman version is 2.1.10 or later, set admin_member_chunksize > on the list's General Options page to a number greater than the number > of list members. > > For older versions, set it with bin/withlist or bin/config_list. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > -- Brian J. Luria DVM, DACVIM Bluepearl Veterinary Partners Florida Veterinary Specialists Tampa: (813) 933-8944 Clearwater: (727) 572-0132 Brandon: (813) 571-3303 www.bluepearlvet.com From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 22 05:08:56 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 20:08:56 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List all users on one page In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Brian Luria > >Where is the best place for me to start understanding terminal commands like >you list there. I am honestly not even sure where to start. I am only used >to the web based interface. The FAQ at lists the commands and what they do. Each command has a --help option that gives the usage and options for the command. The two most useful commands for manipulating non GUI things or things for all lists at once are bin/withlist and bin/config_list. Withlist can run Python scripts against one or all lists and can invoke an interactive Python interpreter with a list instance that can be examined and changed interactively, but this requires both Python knowledge and some knowledge of Mailman internals. bin/config_list is more "friendly". For example, in this case you would just create a file containing the single line admin_member_chunksize = 100 or whatever number you need, and run bin/config_list --inputfile /path/to/above/file listname -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de Thu Apr 22 09:10:09 2010 From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 09:10:09 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problem: Some URLs are wrong Message-ID: <20100422071009.GD16179@charite.de> Today I created a new list, and all over a sudden, some (not all!) links are wrong. E.g. the archive link on the admin page points to http://charite.de/mailman/private/gyn-online-tumorkonferenz/ instead of http://mailman.charite.de/mailman/private/gyn-online-tumorkonferenz/ Same for the held message: http://charite.de/mailman/admindb/gyn-online-tumorkonferenz?sender=dza%40alcedis.de instead of http://mailman.charite.de/mailman/admindb/gyn-online-tumorkonferenz?sender=dza%40alcedis.de Why is that? There were NO mailman updates or changes at all... Which setting (global or list specific) is responsible for these? -- Ralf Hildebrandt Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de Thu Apr 22 09:31:10 2010 From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 09:31:10 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problem: Some URLs are wrong In-Reply-To: <20100422071009.GD16179@charite.de> References: <20100422071009.GD16179@charite.de> Message-ID: <20100422073110.GH16179@charite.de> * Ralf Hildebrandt : > Today I created a new list, and all over a sudden, some (not all!) > links are wrong. > > E.g. the archive link on the admin page points to > http://charite.de/mailman/private/gyn-online-tumorkonferenz/ > instead of > http://mailman.charite.de/mailman/private/gyn-online-tumorkonferenz/ > > Same for the held message: > http://charite.de/mailman/admindb/gyn-online-tumorkonferenz?sender=dza%40alcedis.de > instead of > http://mailman.charite.de/mailman/admindb/gyn-online-tumorkonferenz?sender=dza%40alcedis.de > > Why is that? There were NO mailman updates or changes at all... Which > setting (global or list specific) is responsible for these? I created the list using: newlist gyn-online-tumorkonferenz at charite.de instead of newlist gyn-online-tumorkonferenz *facepalm* -- Ralf Hildebrandt Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de From stephen at xemacs.org Thu Apr 22 10:40:46 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:40:46 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problem: Some URLs are wrong In-Reply-To: <20100422073110.GH16179@charite.de> References: <20100422071009.GD16179@charite.de> <20100422073110.GH16179@charite.de> Message-ID: <87ljcflw1d.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Ralf Hildebrandt writes: > I created the list using: > > newlist gyn-online-tumorkonferenz at charite.de > instead of > newlist gyn-online-tumorkonferenz > > *facepalm* For Mailman 2, I suppose so ;-), but virtual hosting is proposed as a feature of Mailman 3. If the admin has already configured "charite.de" as a virtual domain, I would think newlist gyn-online-tumorkonferenz at charite.de is a very natural way to specify list and virtual host at the same time. From clarkp at mtmary.edu Thu Apr 22 18:32:50 2010 From: clarkp at mtmary.edu (Peter Clark) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 11:32:50 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman port Message-ID: <4BD07A32.2080903@mtmary.edu> Hello, I tried to install the mailman port (FreeBSD 8.0-RELEASE-p2 amd64) this morning and it bombs out during the install phase: Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/TopicMgr.py ... Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/UserDesc.py ... Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py ... Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Version.py ... Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/__init__.py ... Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py ... Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py ... Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ... *** Signal 11 Stop in /usr/ports/mail/mailman/work/mailman-2.1.12. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/mail/mailman. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/mail/mailman. the only corresponding thing I see in the logs is: Apr 22 11:18:51 greed kernel: pid 38872 (python2.6), uid 0: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) Any thoughts on what to look at to correct this? Thank you, Peter From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 22 19:24:39 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 10:24:39 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman port In-Reply-To: <4BD07A32.2080903@mtmary.edu> Message-ID: Peter Clark wrote: > >I tried to install the mailman port (FreeBSD 8.0-RELEASE-p2 amd64) this >morning and it bombs out during the install phase: > > >Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/TopicMgr.py ... >Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/UserDesc.py ... >Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py ... >Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Version.py ... >Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/__init__.py ... >Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py ... >Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py ... >Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ... >*** Signal 11 > >Stop in /usr/ports/mail/mailman/work/mailman-2.1.12. >*** Error code 1 > >Stop in /usr/ports/mail/mailman. >*** Error code 1 > >Stop in /usr/ports/mail/mailman. > > > >the only corresponding thing I see in the logs is: >Apr 22 11:18:51 greed kernel: pid 38872 (python2.6), uid 0: exited on >signal 11 (core dumped) > > >Any thoughts on what to look at to correct this? This is a FreeBSD packaging question, not a Mailman question. Signal 11 usually is a segmentation fault. Python shouldn't be seg faulting when trying to compile anything. I would guess it is a problem with the Python installation somehow or some kind of packaging incompatibility. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Thu Apr 22 19:35:14 2010 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 12:35:14 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman port In-Reply-To: <4BD07A32.2080903@mtmary.edu> References: <4BD07A32.2080903@mtmary.edu> Message-ID: <1271957714.10600.63.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 11:32 -0500, Peter Clark wrote: > > Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/TopicMgr.py ... > Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/UserDesc.py ... > Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py ... > Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Version.py ... > Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/__init__.py ... > Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py ... > Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py ... > Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ... > *** Signal 11 Isn't Signal 11 generally an indication of a hardware (e.g. memory) failure? -- Lindsay Haisley | "Never expect the people who caused a problem FMP Computer Services | to solve it." - Albert Einstein 512-259-1190 | http://www.fmp.com | From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Thu Apr 22 21:04:28 2010 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:04:28 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman port In-Reply-To: <1271957714.10600.63.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4BD07A32.2080903@mtmary.edu> <1271957714.10600.63.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4BD09DBC.8060804@riverviewtech.net> On 04/22/10 12:35, Lindsay Haisley wrote: > Isn't Signal 11 generally an indication of a hardware (e.g. memory) > failure? I don't think it's an indication of hardware failure so much as hardware failure is one of the things that can cause a program to dump its core. Grant. . . . From stephen at xemacs.org Fri Apr 23 05:52:29 2010 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 12:52:29 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman port In-Reply-To: <1271957714.10600.63.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4BD07A32.2080903@mtmary.edu> <1271957714.10600.63.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <87y6gex1tu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Lindsay Haisley writes: > Isn't Signal 11 generally an indication of a hardware (e.g. memory) > failure? No. This is what Windows calls a "general protection fault", and it means that you've attempted to access memory that the operating system thinks you shouldn't. Possibly the most common low-level cause is dereferencing a NULL pointer, but overruns of dynamically allocated buffers and randomized pointers are also frequently observed. High-level causes include program bugs, requesting that the compiler do inappropriate optimizations, buggy compilers, and linking to buggy libraries. Either way, it's not a Mailman bug. Python (like many other high-level languages) promises to be safe, and not be crashable. It does quite well at that (I don't think I've ever observed a released Python to crash because of a bug in code written by the Python developers for Python), but it can't make promises for aggressively optimized distributions, for libraries, or for compilers. From cim2009 at malme.co.uk Sat Apr 24 14:12:22 2010 From: cim2009 at malme.co.uk (Chris Malme) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 13:12:22 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Inappropriate nesting of threads. In-Reply-To: <4BCF15F1.1040906@malme.co.uk> References: <4BCF15F1.1040906@malme.co.uk> Message-ID: <4BD2E026.5000908@malme.co.uk> Regarding my earlier query, regarding archive messages breaking, due to to in message "\nFrom " text; I am pleased to say that Mark's suggestion worked a treat, and fixed that archive woe. Many thanks. However, it uncovered another problem, less serious, but fascinating. One of my users uses a mail client that creates MessageIDs containing the character "-". As far as I can tell, this is completely legit. I've discovered that for every "-" in the MessageID, that message is moved one place across in the nesting of threads. As his MessageID can contain up to 5 "-" characters, this means any thread he participates in gets messed up somewhat. Looking Mailman/Archive/pipermail.py, I can see lines such as article.threadKey = parent.threadKey + article.date + '/' + article.msgid + '-' and self.write_threadindex_entry(article, artkey.count('-') - 1) which suggests the dash is being used as a delimiter/flag in Pipermail, but I haven't looked into it in any detail, yet. Before I do so, or begin to experiment, I thought I would ask if this is a known problem with a existing solution? I did do a quick search of the archive, but couldn't find anything obvious. If there isn't an existing fix, I might try something basic, like a global replacement of "'-'" for "'~'" in pipermail.py and just see what it does. As before, running Mailman 2.1.9/Pipermail 0.09 on Debian/Ubuntu, running Plesk. Chris From cim2009 at malme.co.uk Sat Apr 24 14:15:07 2010 From: cim2009 at malme.co.uk (Chris Malme) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 13:15:07 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Inappropriate nesting of threads. In-Reply-To: <4BD2E026.5000908@malme.co.uk> References: <4BCF15F1.1040906@malme.co.uk> <4BD2E026.5000908@malme.co.uk> Message-ID: <4BD2E0CB.8090306@malme.co.uk> By the way, the mail client in question is Apple Mail 2.1, and I have confirmed that this is normal behaviour for it. From mark at msapiro.net Sat Apr 24 16:20:46 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 07:20:46 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Inappropriate nesting of threads. In-Reply-To: <4BD2E026.5000908@malme.co.uk> Message-ID: Chris Malme wrote: > >I've discovered that for every "-" in the MessageID, that message is moved >one place across in the nesting of threads. As his MessageID can contain up >to 5 "-" characters, this means any thread he participates in gets messed up >somewhat. Good work. It took me quite a bit of effort to figure that one out, even after I knew which bad Debian patch caused it. [...] >Before I do so, or begin to experiment, I thought I would ask if this is a >known problem with a existing solution? It is a known problem caused by another bad Debian patch. See some of the gory details in the post at and related posts. The cure is to replace the debian patch with the one at . (That URL is currently returning "internal server error". This is generally a temporary Launchpad condition which will correct itself. If you can't get the patch, let me know and I'll send it.) The bad Debian patch takes statements similar to myThreadKey = parent.threadKey + article.date + '-' in five places in pipermail.py and replaces "article.date + '-'" with "article.date + '/' + article.msgid + '-'". The correct fix is to replace "article.date + '/' + article.msgid + '-'" in the Debian patch with "article.date + '.' + str(article.sequence) + '-'". Or, you can go to and look at the 5 groups of one or two lines marked revision 1186. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From kremels at kreme.com Sat Apr 24 19:20:06 2010 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:20:06 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The Dreaded Group Mismatch Error Message-ID: I tried to send a message to a low-traffic announce-list which failed: Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group "nobody". Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "mailman", or re-run configure, providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=nobody'. So I go to the /usr/ports/mail/mailman/ directory to build mailman 'by hand' so to speak: $ export MM_USERNAME=nobody $ export MM_GROUPNAME=nobody $ export MM_USERID=65534 $ make install ===> Installing for mailman-2.1.12 ===> mailman-2.1.12 depends on file: /usr/local/bin/python2.5 - found ---> Starting install script: ---> Using existing group "nobody" ---> Using existing user "nobody" ---> Using existing Mailman directory (/usr/local/mailman) (There may be existing active mailing lists - this installation will attempt to preserve them.) ===> Generating temporary packing list etc etc $ /usr/local/etc/rc.d/mailman start $ Try to send another message, and I get the exact same error. Apr 24 09:26:44 mail Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group "nobody". Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "mailman", or re-run configure, providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=nobody'. Now /etc/postfix/aliases.db (where all the aliases for mailman have been since at least 2004) is owned by root, and man 8 local says: When those files are owned by the superuser, delivery is made with the rights specified with the default_privs configuration parameter. and the default for default_privs is nobody, which is what postfix is doing. So, if mailman is built as above using group and user nobody why is it claiming it expected the wrapper to be run as mailman? As far as I can tell, postfix is doing what it is supposed to, but mailman somewhere has a user mailman in it that it thinks should be being used. Where this is and why I cannot figure out. All the mailman processes are running as 'nobody' So, I went and grabbed the source and read up on ~/src/mailman-2.1.13 $ ./configure --with-username=nobody --with-mail-gid=nobody --with-group-name=nobody configure: WARNING: you should use --build, --host, --target checking for --with-python... no checking for python... /usr/local/bin/python checking Python interpreter... /usr/local/bin/python checking Python version... 2.5.5 checking Python's email package... ok checking Japanese codecs... ok checking Korean codecs... ok checking that Python has a working distutils... yes checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes checking for true... /usr/bin/true checking for --without-gcc... no checking for gcc... gcc checking for C compiler default output file name... a.out checking whether the C compiler works... yes checking whether we are cross compiling... no checking for suffix of executables... checking for suffix of object files... o checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes checking whether gcc accepts -g... yes checking for gcc option to accept ISO C89... none needed checking whether #! works in shell scripts... yes checking for --with-var-prefix... no checking for --with-permcheck... yes checking for --with-username... mailman checking for user name "mailman"... okay checking for --with-groupname... mailman checking for group name "mailman"... okay ... it completely ignores the flags (this is 2.1.13 downloaded a today from ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/mailman-2.1.13.tgz ). and even if you try to make at that point, there is no Makefile so, now what? What portion of mailman is expecting a gid of mailman? Since mailman seems to be totally insistent on running as mailman, I wen ahead and split the aliases out into a separate file and gave them the right permissions $ chown mailman /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases.db In the manual it say: Run the bin/genaliases script to initialize your aliases file. % cd /usr/local/mailman % bin/genaliases Make sure that the owner of the data/aliases and data/aliases.db file is mailman, that the group owner for those files is mailman, or whatever user and group you used in the configure command, and that both files are group writable: However, when I run bin/genaliases I get: To finish creating your mailing list, you must edit your /etc/aliases (or equivalent) file by adding the following lines, and possibly running the `newaliases' program: followed by a list of all the aliases. There are no files in data/ named anything like alias /usr/local/mailman $ ls -ls data/ total 20 2 -rw-r----- 1 root nobody 41 May 30 2009 adm.pw 2 -rw-r--r-- 1 root nobody 10 Apr 24 10:30 last_mailman_version 2 -rw-rw---- 1 nobody nobody 6 Apr 24 10:36 master-qrunner.pid 14 -rw-r--r-- 1 root nobody 14100 Apr 24 10:32 sitelist.cfg But I created one, ran postalias on it, changed the permissions as noted above, and it STILL fails with the same error. -- Anybody who tells me what happens to me after I'm dead is either a liar or a fool because they DON'T KNOW --Stephen Fry From mark at msapiro.net Sat Apr 24 21:15:15 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 12:15:15 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The Dreaded Group Mismatch Error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: LuKreme wrote: >I tried to send a message to a low-traffic announce-list which failed: Are other lists working? >Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group "nobody". Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "mailman", or re-run configure, providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=nobody'. > >So I go to the /usr/ports/mail/mailman/ directory to build mailman 'by hand' so to speak: > > $ export MM_USERNAME=nobody > $ export MM_GROUPNAME=nobody > $ export MM_USERID=65534 > $ make install >===> Installing for mailman-2.1.12 >===> mailman-2.1.12 depends on file: /usr/local/bin/python2.5 - found >---> Starting install script: >---> Using existing group "nobody" >---> Using existing user "nobody" >---> Using existing Mailman directory (/usr/local/mailman) > (There may be existing active mailing lists - this installation will > attempt to preserve them.) >===> Generating temporary packing list > > >etc etc Which may or may not have any effect on this depending on how your package installation works. > $ /usr/local/etc/rc.d/mailman start > $ > >Try to send another message, and I get the exact same error. > >Apr 24 09:26:44 mail Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group "nobody". Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "mailman", or re-run configure, providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=nobody'. > >Now /etc/postfix/aliases.db (where all the aliases for mailman have been since at least 2004) is owned by root, and man 8 local says: > > When those files are > owned by the superuser, delivery is made with the rights specified with > the default_privs configuration parameter. > >and the default for default_privs is nobody, which is what postfix is doing. > >So, if mailman is built as above using group and user nobody why is it claiming it expected the wrapper to be run as mailman? Ask your packager. >As far as I can tell, postfix is doing what it is supposed to, but mailman somewhere has a user mailman in it that it thinks should be being used. Where this is and why I cannot figure out. > >All the mailman processes are running as 'nobody' Which pretty much defeats Mailman's security model. >So, I went and grabbed the source and read up on > >~/src/mailman-2.1.13 $ ./configure --with-username=nobody --with-mail-gid=nobody --with-group-name=nobody >configure: WARNING: you should use --build, --host, --target This is very strange. When I run the above command in a freshly unpacked 2.1.13 tarball directory (with 2.5 python), I get: [msapiro at msapiro ...2.1.13/mailman-2.1.13]$ ./configure --with-username=nobody --with-mail-gid=nobody --with-group-name=nobody configure: WARNING: unrecognized options: --with-group-name Because it's spelled --with-groupname checking for --with-python... no ... >checking for --with-python... no >checking for python... /usr/local/bin/python >checking Python interpreter... /usr/local/bin/python >checking Python version... 2.5.5 >checking Python's email package... ok >checking Japanese codecs... ok >checking Korean codecs... ok >checking that Python has a working distutils... yes >checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c >checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes >checking for true... /usr/bin/true >checking for --without-gcc... no >checking for gcc... gcc >checking for C compiler default output file name... a.out >checking whether the C compiler works... yes >checking whether we are cross compiling... no >checking for suffix of executables... >checking for suffix of object files... o >checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes >checking whether gcc accepts -g... yes >checking for gcc option to accept ISO C89... none needed >checking whether #! works in shell scripts... yes >checking for --with-var-prefix... no >checking for --with-permcheck... yes >checking for --with-username... mailman >checking for user name "mailman"... okay >checking for --with-groupname... mailman >checking for group name "mailman"... okay >... > >it completely ignores the flags (this is 2.1.13 downloaded a today from ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/mailman-2.1.13.tgz ). Well, it ignores --with-group-name because it's misspelled, but it should issue a warning about that. Could there be something in your environment that's affecting this? Or your shell? What shell is invoked by /bin/sh? >and even if you try to make at that point, there is no Makefile Are you saying configure completes and makes a config.status and runs that and there is no Makefile after that? Really strange... >so, now what? What portion of mailman is expecting a gid of mailman? Since mailman seems to be totally insistent on running as mailman, I wen ahead and split the aliases out into a separate file and gave them the right permissions > > $ chown mailman /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases.db > >In the manual it say: > >Run the bin/genaliases script to initialize your aliases file. > % cd /usr/local/mailman > % bin/genaliases > > >Make sure that the owner of the data/aliases and data/aliases.db file is mailman, that the group owner for those files is mailman, or whatever user and group you used in the configure command, and that both files are group writable: > >However, when I run bin/genaliases I get: > >To finish creating your mailing list, you must edit your /etc/aliases (or >equivalent) file by adding the following lines, and possibly running the >`newaliases' program: > >followed by a list of all the aliases. Because you don't have MTA= 'Postfix' in mm_cfg.py. >There are no files in data/ named anything like alias > > /usr/local/mailman $ ls -ls data/ >total 20 > 2 -rw-r----- 1 root nobody 41 May 30 2009 adm.pw > 2 -rw-r--r-- 1 root nobody 10 Apr 24 10:30 last_mailman_version > 2 -rw-rw---- 1 nobody nobody 6 Apr 24 10:36 master-qrunner.pid >14 -rw-r--r-- 1 root nobody 14100 Apr 24 10:32 sitelist.cfg > >But I created one, ran postalias on it, changed the permissions as noted above, and it STILL fails with the same error. Maybe because you still have aliases in /etc/postfix/aliases.db which is what is being used by postfix unless you added hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases to Postfix alias_maps ahead of hash:/etc/postfix/aliases. Note that the expected group (mailman) is compiled into the mailman/mail/mailman wrapper (from configure's --with-mail-gid) in standard Mailman. I don't know how to set it in your package. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From kremels at kreme.com Sat Apr 24 22:27:29 2010 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 14:27:29 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The Dreaded Group Mismatch Error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 24-Apr-2010, at 13:15, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > LuKreme wrote: > >> I tried to send a message to a low-traffic announce-list which failed: > > Are other lists working? No, everything is dead. > [Let's just ignore anything having to do with the ports package, I'm trying to get the source tarball to work] >> So, I went and grabbed the source and read up on >> >> ~/src/mailman-2.1.13 $ ./configure --with-username=nobody --with-mail-gid=nobody --with-group-name=nobody >> configure: WARNING: you should use --build, --host, --target > > > This is very strange. When I run the above command in a freshly > unpacked 2.1.13 tarball directory (with 2.5 python), I get: > > [msapiro at msapiro ...2.1.13/mailman-2.1.13]$ ./configure > --with-username=nobody --with-mail-gid=nobody --with-group-name=nobody > configure: WARNING: unrecognized options: --with-group-name > > Because it's spelled --with-groupname Yeah, I don't get that. # python --version Python 2.5.5 # bash --version GNU bash, version 4.0.35(0)-release (i386-portbld-freebsd6.2) Copyright (C) 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc. License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later This is free software; you are free to change and redistribute it. There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. # > checking for --with-python... no > No idea, python is certainly installed. > Could there be something in your environment that's affecting this? Or > your shell? What shell is invoked by /bin/sh? running straight bash, nothing set in my environment. In fact, I tried to compile it just now with su root (no .profile or .bashrc active at all). >> and even if you try to make at that point, there is no Makefile > > > Are you saying configure completes and makes a config.status and runs > that and there is no Makefile after that? Really strange? Yes, exactly. I've downloaded the tarball twice now. > Note that the expected group (mailman) is compiled into the > mailman/mail/mailman wrapper (from configure's --with-mail-gid) in > standard Mailman. I don't know how to set it in your package. I keep trying to get it to work properly with the mailman user and group but it is not playing nice. I would prefer, of course, to have this all working properly (with uid and gid of mailman) but working -at all- would be better. I'm going to try and recompile the port with mailman/mailman and split the aliases out into the data/aliases file, set those perms, re-postalias all the files, wave a fresh chicken bone over the server, and hope for the best. -- Eyes the shady night has shut/Cannot see the record cut And silence sounds no worse than cheers/After earth has stopped the ears. From mark at msapiro.net Sat Apr 24 23:04:07 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 14:04:07 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The Dreaded Group Mismatch Error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: LuKreme wrote: >> configure: WARNING: unrecognized options: --with-group-name >> >> Because it's spelled --with-groupname > > >Yeah, I don't get that. And you do get another warning that I don't get. ??? ># python --version >Python 2.5.5 ># bash --version >GNU bash, version 4.0.35(0)-release (i386-portbld-freebsd6.2) >Copyright (C) 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc. >License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later > >This is free software; you are free to change and redistribute it. >There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. ># > >> checking for --with-python... no > > >No idea, python is certainly installed. That only means you didn't specify --with-python. The next lines checking for python... /usr/local/bin/python checking Python interpreter... /usr/local/bin/python checking Python version... 2.5.5 say it found your python OK. >> Could there be something in your environment that's affecting this? Or >> your shell? What shell is invoked by /bin/sh? > >running straight bash, nothing set in my environment. In fact, I tried to compile it just now with su root (no .profile or .bashrc active at all). > >>> and even if you try to make at that point, there is no Makefile >> >> >> Are you saying configure completes and makes a config.status and runs >> that and there is no Makefile after that? Really strange=85 > >Yes, exactly. Very strange. >I've downloaded the tarball twice now. You could try running autoconf to generate a new configure from configure.in. There might be some idiosyncrasy between the packaged configure and what, I don't know. >> Note that the expected group (mailman) is compiled into the >> mailman/mail/mailman wrapper (from configure's --with-mail-gid) in >> standard Mailman. I don't know how to set it in your package. > >I keep trying to get it to work properly with the mailman user and group but it is not playing nice. I would prefer, of course, to have this all working properly (with uid and gid of mailman) but working -at all- would be better. If the aliases are found in an aliases.db file whose owner (not group) is 'mailman', Postfix will invoke the wrapper as the mailman user:group. I am truly puzzled as to why the configure in the tarball apparently isn't working correctly. Also, You said you first saw this when you attempted to post to a low-traffic announce-list. Were other lists working at that time? >I'm going to try and recompile the port with mailman/mailman and split the aliases out into the data/aliases file, set those perms, re-postalias all the files, wave a fresh chicken bone over the server, and hope for the best. OK -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From shop at justbrits.com Sun Apr 25 05:23:30 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 22:23:30 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The Dreaded Group Mismatch Error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BD3B5B2.3070308@justbrits.com> LuKreme.... << wave a fresh chicken bone over the server >> You WILL have FAR better 'luck' with a fresh [sic] turkey bone !! I thought "everybody" knew THAT !!! Tsk, tsk !!! Ed PS: !! From kremels at kreme.com Sun Apr 25 16:17:58 2010 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 08:17:58 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The Dreaded Group Mismatch Error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Apr 24, 2010, at 14:27, LuKreme wrote: > wave a fresh chicken bone over the server All hail the power of the chicken bone. (it's working again, Woot) From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Mon Apr 26 18:47:40 2010 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:47:40 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The Dreaded Group Mismatch Error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1272300461.6792.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2010-04-24 at 11:20 -0600, LuKreme wrote: > $ export MM_USERNAME=nobody > $ export MM_GROUPNAME=nobody > $ export MM_USERID=65534 > $ make install If you're truly building "by hand" you're missing an essential step here, maybe two. Assuming you're cd'd to your build directory, make clean ./configure ... --with-mail-gid=nobody ... etc. make; make install I'm not entirely sure of the difference between the --with-groupname and --with-group-gid, both of which accept a name but have different functions. I do know that for my server distribution (gentoo Linux) it's essential that the environment setting which controls the --with-mail-gid configuration setting match the mail group which the MTA runs as. I've run into this problem often when I've upgraded Mailman and if I forget to make this adjustment I get exactly the same error, and the fix is the same every time. In my case my MTA runs as group "mail" and Mailman has to be configured thusly. -- Lindsay Haisley | "Humor will get you through times of no humor FMP Computer Services | better than no humor will get you through 512-259-1190 | times of humor." http://www.fmp.com | - Butch Hancock From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com Mon Apr 26 18:58:22 2010 From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:58:22 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The Dreaded Group Mismatch Error In-Reply-To: <1272300461.6792.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1272300461.6792.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1272301103.6792.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2010-04-26 at 11:47 -0500, Lindsay Haisley wrote: > I do know that for my server distribution (gentoo Linux) > it's essential that the environment setting which controls the > --with-mail-gid configuration setting match the mail group which the MTA > runs as. I should maybe point out that gentoo Linux is a source-based distribution so that nearly every package installation is built from source before it's installed. Various build parameters can be controlled by setting environment variables at build time in gentoo, but in the absence of a complete configure/make/make install build cycle (as in installing a pre-compiled package), setting environment variables is generally only effective at run-time. -- Lindsay Haisley |"Fighting against human creativity is like trying FMP Computer Services | to eradicate dandelions" 512-259-1190 | http://www.fmp.com | - Pamela Jones of Groklaw From mark at msapiro.net Mon Apr 26 19:23:45 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 10:23:45 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] The Dreaded Group Mismatch Error In-Reply-To: <1272300461.6792.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1272300461.6792.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4BD5CC21.9020905@msapiro.net> On 4/26/2010 9:47 AM, Lindsay Haisley wrote: > > I'm not entirely sure of the difference between the --with-groupname and > --with-group-gid, both of which accept a name but have different > functions. I do know that for my server distribution (gentoo Linux) > it's essential that the environment setting which controls the > --with-mail-gid configuration setting match the mail group which the MTA > runs as. --with-groupname set's Mailman's group. This is the group of the files and directories in Mailman's file tree, and is the group that is able to run mailman's bin commands successfully and access Mailman's Python api. It is the group the qrunners run as. Because you don't want to give the web server user/group and the MTA user/group the ability to access this stuff directly for security reasons, the web server and MTA access Mailman through compiled SETGID wrappers that set the effective GID to Mailman's group (as set by --with-groupname). As an additional security check, these wrappers are compiled to expect to be invoked by a particular group and will issue the group mismatch error if invoked by some other group. The expected MTA group is set by --with-mail-gid and the expected web server group by --with-cgi-gid. See the FAQ at for more. The FAQ refers to Mailman's group as 'mailman' which is the default, but can be changed by the --with-groupname option to configure. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From lee_d at aps.edu Tue Apr 27 16:29:26 2010 From: lee_d at aps.edu (Lee, Davis H) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 08:29:26 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Thank you -- Help with migration Message-ID: <79008F36E457BD4DAA0BBAD3C79E49F9095033D0@EX02.aps.edu.actd> TIA, Please help me resolve what I hope is fairly simple permissions error. If need be, I can restore the VM to a state prior to the noted file transfers. Goal: Migrate from Mac OSX.4.11 to Ubuntu 9.04 (on VMware). Steps: Build Ubuntu server with Postfix, Amavisd, Spammassasin, & Mailman. Rsync files over with the following commands. Did not use option a because mailman/list owner had different names & numerical IDs. sudo rsync -rlptDvz /var/mailman/lists root at 209.XXX.XXX.XX:/var/lib/mailman/ data archive Results: Bug in Mailman version 2.1.12 We're sorry, we hit a bug! Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. Logs (also attached): sudo more /var/log/mailman/error Apr 26 13:36:10 2010 admin(1508): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ admin(1508): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.12 -----] admin(1508): [----- Traceback ------] admin(1508): Traceback (most recent call last): admin(1508): File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main admin(1508): main() admin(1508): File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 65, in main admin(1508): admin_overview() admin(1508): File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 232, in admin_overview admin(1508): mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0) admin(1508): File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__ admin(1508): self.Load() admin(1508): File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 638, in Load admin(1508): dict, e = self.__load(file) admin(1508): File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 604, in __load admin(1508): fp = open(dbfile) admin(1508): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/lists/21ctp/config.pck' admin(1508): [----- Python Information -----] admin(1508): sys.version = 2.6.4 (r264:75706, Dec 7 2009, 18:43:55) [GCC 4.4.1] admin(1508): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python admin(1508): sys.prefix = /usr admin(1508): sys.exec_prefix = /usr admin(1508): sys.path = /usr admin(1508): sys.platform = linux2 admin(1508): [----- Environment Variables -----] admin(1508): SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.2.12 (Ubuntu) admin(1508): SCRIPT_NAME: /cgi-bin/mailman/admin admin(1508): SERVER_SIGNATURE:
Apache/2.2.12 (Ubuntu) Server at 209.XXX.XXX.XXX Port 80
admin(1508): admin(1508): REQUEST_METHOD: GET admin(1508): SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 admin(1508): QUERY_STRING: admin(1508): HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 6.0; SV1; SLCC1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; In foPath.2; OfficeLiveConnector.1.3; OfficeLivePatch.0.0; .NET CLR 3.0.30729) admin(1508): HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive admin(1508): SERVER_NAME: 209.XXX.XXX.XXX admin(1508): REMOTE_ADDR: 192.168.151.102 admin(1508): SERVER_PORT: 80 admin(1508): SERVER_ADDR: 209.XXX.XXX.XXX admin(1508): DOCUMENT_ROOT: /var/www admin(1508): PYTHONPATH: /var/lib/mailman admin(1508): SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/admin admin(1508): SERVER_ADMIN: webmaster at localhost admin(1508): HTTP_HOST: 209.XXX.XXX.XXX admin(1508): HTTP_UA_CPU: x86 admin(1508): REQUEST_URI: /cgi-bin/mailman/admin admin(1508): HTTP_ACCEPT: image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg, application/x-ms-application, application/vnd.ms-xpsdocument, application/x aml+xml, application/x-ms-xbap, application/x-shockwave-flash, application/vnd.ms-excel, application/vnd.ms-powerpoint, application/msword, */* admin(1508): GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1 admin(1508): REMOTE_PORT: 49276 admin(1508): HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us admin(1508): HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate Apr 26 13:36:40 2010 admin(1509): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ admin(1509): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.12 -----] | | | | core at lists:~$ core at lists:~$ core at lists:~$ core at lists:~$ ls -al /var/lib/mailman/lists/21ctp/ total 28 drwxrwxr-x 2 root list 4096 2010-04-26 13:31 . drwxrwsr-x 40 root list 4096 2010-04-13 11:02 .. -rw-rw---- 1 root root 5400 2010-04-26 13:31 config.pck -rw-rw---- 1 root root 4917 2010-04-26 12:00 config.pck.last -rw-rw-r-- 1 root root 24 2009-12-09 08:07 request.pck Thank you, Davis Lee WAN Administrator Albuquerque Public Schools 505 830 6870 From tygrrrnelson at gmail.com Tue Apr 27 19:14:14 2010 From: tygrrrnelson at gmail.com (Ty Nelson) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:14:14 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Simple, yet over my head multiple domain problem Message-ID: Greetings Geniuses... I have mailman 2.1.11 running with postfix, and it's absolutely great. I love it. The problem is...I'm going to be honest when I say I'm definitely below average intelligence with this sort of thing. I don't know how to make it so I can have more than one domain on my mailman install. I have all the domains pointing to the correct IP address, so the interface works on each domain. I can change the hostname in my main.cffile to whatever domain I want to work at that instant, and it works-but I don't know how I can have 5 domains that work at the same time. I can only get them to work one at a time. I understand that these files must be changed: main.cf mm_cfg.py (something involving virtual hosts????) But I've looked everywhere on the internet and I can't find a step by step guide for (idiots) if you will on what I need to do to what file word for word. Basically, how can I make: domain1.info domain2.info domain3.info domain4.info domain5.info all work at the same time. I know this forum is for advanced issues in general, been on it for quite sometime. So I apologize for filling your inbox with such a silly question. I am so grateful for your assistance. Thank you, Tyler From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com Wed Apr 28 15:56:33 2010 From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 08:56:33 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs OSX vs launchd In-Reply-To: References: <1DCE4BC5-CA96-4B5C-92D9-89EA775E4E9C@bryanharrison.com> <20090626112213.1991393157@mail.admilon.net> Message-ID: I know, I'm reopening a ten month old thread. But I think I have a good workaround. On Fri, 26 Jun 2009, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > --On 26. Juni 2009 20:22:13 +0900 Matthias Schmidt wrote: > >> Am/On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:22:02 -0500 schrieb/wrote Larry Stone: >> >>> On 6/18/09 7:11 PM, Bryan Harrison at bryan at bryanharrison.com wrote: >>> >>>> I've built and installed Mailman 2.12 from current source code and >>>> have it running just fine under OS X Server 10.5.7, with on exception, >>>> which is not properly speaking a Mailman problem at all. >>>> >>>> If I start Mailman from the CLI, using /usr/share/mailman/bin/ >>>> mailmanctl -s start, all is well. >>>> >>>> If I allow launchd to start it >>>> SI get an endless succession ofS >>>> >>>> Jun 18 16:50:26 org.list.mailmanctl[1697]: Starting Mailman's master >>>> qrunner. >>>> Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl[1697]): >>>> Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 1698 PPID 1 Python >>>> Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling >>>> respawn: Will start in 9 seconds > > The reason this happens is that launchd expects the processes it launches to > stick around. They must not daemonize. But mailmanctl terminates after it has > started the runners. I assume that Apple modified their own distribution of > Mailman so that mailmanctl behaves differently. I'd suggest comparing the > two. I've been playing around with Mailman on a 10.6 (Snow Leopard) machine. It's for testing right now (at the next refresh of Mac Minis or iMacs, I plan to buy one to replace my PPC iMac that is currently my everything server - for now I'm testing on my laptop, the only Intel Mac I currently have). So I found that unlike on the PPC iMac, where Mailman starts OK after about 75% of the boots, on the laptop, it consistently died. No "stray process" system.log message but perhaps that's a 10.5/10.6 difference. But I did see that the lock files were being created in $mailman_prefix/locks. So what's different? Well, the laptop is a lot faster. Factor? I think so. I know almost nothing about the internals of forking processes and daemonizing but if I have it right, when 'mailmanctl start' is run, it forks a second copy which daemonizes. Meanwhile, the first copy of mailmanctl exits. My guess is that the first copy was exiting and the process terminating before the second copy had performed whatever magic it does to deamonize and run on its own. My workaround, which appears to work so far, is to have launchd, rather than run mailmanctl directly (via a .plist in /Library/LaunchDaemons), instead run a script in root's home directory that runs mailmanctl, then sleeps for one second before exiting: #!/bin/sh /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start sleep 1 -- Larry Stone lstone19 at stonejongleux.com From mark at msapiro.net Wed Apr 28 16:34:16 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 07:34:16 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Thank you -- Help with migration In-Reply-To: <79008F36E457BD4DAA0BBAD3C79E49F9095033D0@EX02.aps.edu.actd> Message-ID: Lee, Davis H wrote: > >admin(1508): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: >'/var/lib/mailman/lists/21ctp/config.pck' [...] >core at lists:~$ ls -al /var/lib/mailman/lists/21ctp/ > >total 28 > >drwxrwxr-x 2 root list 4096 2010-04-26 13:31 . > >drwxrwsr-x 40 root list 4096 2010-04-13 11:02 .. > >-rw-rw---- 1 root root 5400 2010-04-26 13:31 config.pck > >-rw-rw---- 1 root root 4917 2010-04-26 12:00 config.pck.last > >-rw-rw-r-- 1 root root 24 2009-12-09 08:07 request.pck The files in the lists/listname/ directory need to be Mailman's group - 'list' in your case. The lists/listname directories need to be SETGID - i.e. mode 2775, not 0775. sudo /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms -f (if I have the path right) should fix all of this. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Apr 28 17:23:43 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 08:23:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs OSX vs launchd In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Larry Stone wrote: > >I know almost nothing about the internals of forking processes and >daemonizing but if I have it right, when 'mailmanctl start' is run, it >forks a second copy which daemonizes. Meanwhile, the first copy of >mailmanctl exits. My guess is that the first copy was exiting and the >process terminating before the second copy had performed whatever magic it >does to deamonize and run on its own. It probably has nothing to do with this, but through Mailman 2.1.13, mailmanctl forks the eventual daemon with file descriptors for stdin, stdout and stderr, possibly attached to the terminal. Normally, the only symptom is if you start Mailman in a terminal session and then log out, the session doesn't completely close until you physically disconnect, but this may have an effect on your situation. I do have an Intel iMac amongst several other machines, but I know essentially nothing about launchd. Anyway, there is a patch to mailmanctl at which probably won't make a difference to your case, but might. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Apr 28 17:39:30 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 08:39:30 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Simple, yet over my head multiple domain problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ty Nelson wrote: >I don't know how to make it so I can have more than one domain on my mailman >install. I have all the domains pointing to the correct IP address, so the >interface works on each domain. I can change the hostname in my >main.cffile to whatever domain I want to work at that instant, and it >works-but I >don't know how I can have 5 domains that work at the same time. I can only >get them to work one at a time. >I understand that these files must be changed: >main.cf >mm_cfg.py >(something involving virtual hosts????) > >But I've looked everywhere on the internet and I can't find a step by step >guide for (idiots) if you will on what I need to do to what file word for >word. > >Basically, >how can I make: >domain1.info >domain2.info >domain3.info >domain4.info >domain5.info > >all work at the same time. > >I know this forum is for advanced issues in general, been on it for quite >sometime. So I apologize for filling your inbox with such a silly question. This list is for any and all Mailman users. No apologies required. If I understand correctly, the easiest solution is to make all the domains local in Postfix. I.e. in main.cf, if for example you have myhostname = domain1.info you could put mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost, domain2.info, domain3.info, domain4.info, domain5.info Then, assuming you have aliases for all the lists, this should work. In any case, you should also have in mm_cfg.py (assuming the web domain corresponding to the email domain domain1.info is www.domain.info) add_virtualhost(www.domain1.info, domain1.info) add_virtualhost(www.domain2.info, domain2.info) add_virtualhost(www.domain3.info, domain3.info) add_virtualhost(www.domain4.info, domain4.info) add_virtualhost(www.domain5.info, domain5.info) This is to facilitate creating lists in the proper domain from the web. If you want some of these domains to be "virtual" in Postfix, it's a bit more involved. If you let us know exactly what the requirement is, we can help with that too. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From tygrrrnelson at gmail.com Wed Apr 28 18:01:08 2010 From: tygrrrnelson at gmail.com (Ty Nelson) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 09:01:08 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Simple, yet over my head multiple domain problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mark, That solved it! Not only are you really smart, you're nice too. That always makes my day better. Thanks for taking the time to answer the question. That was so easy and simple to do-but somehow when I get inside mailman I have this horrible fear of breaking it. (I've done that a few times). Thanks again! -Ty On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 8:39 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Ty Nelson wrote: > > >I don't know how to make it so I can have more than one domain on my > mailman > >install. I have all the domains pointing to the correct IP address, so > the > >interface works on each domain. I can change the hostname in my > >main.cffile to whatever domain I want to work at that instant, and it > >works-but I > >don't know how I can have 5 domains that work at the same time. I can > only > >get them to work one at a time. > >I understand that these files must be changed: > >main.cf > >mm_cfg.py > >(something involving virtual hosts????) > > > >But I've looked everywhere on the internet and I can't find a step by step > >guide for (idiots) if you will on what I need to do to what file word for > >word. > > > >Basically, > >how can I make: > >domain1.info > >domain2.info > >domain3.info > >domain4.info > >domain5.info > > > >all work at the same time. > > > >I know this forum is for advanced issues in general, been on it for quite > >sometime. So I apologize for filling your inbox with such a silly > question. > > > This list is for any and all Mailman users. No apologies required. > > If I understand correctly, the easiest solution is to make all the > domains local in Postfix. I.e. in main.cf, if for example you have > > myhostname = domain1.info > > you could put > > mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost, > domain2.info, domain3.info, domain4.info, domain5.info > > > Then, assuming you have aliases for all the lists, this should work. > > > In any case, you should also have in mm_cfg.py (assuming the web domain > corresponding to the email domain domain1.info is www.domain.info) > > add_virtualhost(www.domain1.info, domain1.info) > add_virtualhost(www.domain2.info, domain2.info) > add_virtualhost(www.domain3.info, domain3.info) > add_virtualhost(www.domain4.info, domain4.info) > add_virtualhost(www.domain5.info, domain5.info) > > This is to facilitate creating lists in the proper domain from the web. > > If you want some of these domains to be "virtual" in Postfix, it's a > bit more involved. If you let us know exactly what the requirement is, > we can help with that too. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com Thu Apr 29 05:17:14 2010 From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 22:17:14 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Snow Leoparrd (MacOS X 10.6) CLIENT installation steps for Mailman Message-ID: In September 2004, I posted on this topic with instructions for installing mailman on the client version of MacOS X 10.3 (Panther). Later, I updated it for OS X 10.4 (Tiger) as well as notes (but not full instructions) for OS X 10.5 (Leopard). Just recently, I did a test installation on my 10.6 (Snow Leopard) laptop in anticipation of a new desktop to become my new server later this year. In all cases, these were the CLIENT version of Mac OS X (Mac OS X Server comes with a bastardized version of Mailman). So here, once again for purposes of getting it in the archives, are my instructions for installing mailman on MacOS X 10.6.x. With this version, I've made some changes to bring the mailman home directory in line with Mailman "standards" (i.e. using /usr/local/mailman instead of /Applications/mailman), improved the system startup procedure, and some other miscellaneous cleanup. ========= Snow Leopard (MacOS X 10.6) installation steps for Mailman This document is based on my experience installing Mailman 2.1.4 on MacOS X 10.3 (Panther) and subsequently upgrading to Tiger (Mac OS X 10.4) and to mailman 2.1.6 and now to Snow Leopard (Mac OS X 10.6) with mailman 2.1.13. It is largely based on Kathleen Webb's document on installing Mailman and Sendmail on MacOS X 10.2 (Jaguar) () which contains some information on tools that can be useful that will not be repeated here. This guide assumes that you have Postfix (which comes with Snow Leopard) already configured and operating, that you have the built-in web server running (if not, enable it by going to the Sharing pane of System Preferences and turning on Web Sharing), and that you are familiar with the Unix shell and basic text editing from the shell (vi or emacs). It is intended to help you get Mailman installed. It does not deal with actually using Mailman as there are plenty of other sources of help for that. This is based on a new install on a Snow Leopard system that has never had Mailman on it before. Questions are best asked through the mailman-users mailing list. ======================================== Step 1) Collect all the things you need. a) You need to download and decompress the Mailman software. (The installation instructions are in step 3.) Download the software from: http://www.list.org/ Download the latest 2.1.x.tgz which is a gzip compressed tar file (.tgz). Just leave it for now and we'll expand it later. b) You need to be an administrator of your computer. If you do not have administrator privileges, you will not be able to do this. c) Python comes pre-installed on your computer. It is already functioning and ready for use by Mailman. (To verify you have Python, open the Terminal application. at the % prompt, type: sudo Python -V and then hit the enter/return key. You'll be prompted for your password. When you enter it, the terminal will respond with the Python version. d) Apache web server software comes pre-installed on your computer and has already been configured and is running. e) Postfix is already installed on your computer but is not running by default. You will need to get Postfix configured and started but how to do that is beyond the scope of this document. An excellent way of getting Postfix up and running, along with a POP and IMAP server, is with MailServe Snow . Note that MailServe Snow is not free - as all the underlying software is freely available, you're paying for the configuration and installation tool, not the underlying software. f) You may need to know how to get into hidden subdirectories. In the Finder, use the Go menu and choose Go to Folder. Type in the path to the hidden folder you need to open. g) You may need to know how to make a new user. You use the System Preferences application [from the Apple menu]. Use the Accounts panel in the System section. h) You need to install the Developer Tools that came with your Snow Leopard disks or several of the steps won't work. ======================================== >From this point on, we will do everything in Terminal and as root. So open Terminal and then become root by typing 'sudo su'. You will be prompted for your password and then get a # as a prompt. Step 2) Verify the user and group needed to run Mailman. All versions of OS X since at least Panther have come with the needed users and groups already created. We will be using _mailman for mailman and _www for the webserver. To verify they're there, type 'grep _mailman /etc/group' and 'grep _mailman /etc/passwd. Both should return one line starting with _mailman:*:78:. If they do, they exist. You can repeat that with _www and the number you see should be 70. Assuming all of the above is there, we're good to go. ======================================== Step 3) Create a folder for mailman in the finder. a) You can choose where to create the folder. I chose to follow the Mailman "standard" and put it in /usr/local. These instructions assume that is where you create the new folder. To create the folder, type: mkdir -p /usr/local/mailman Then "change directory" to it: cd /usr/local/mailman b) Copy the downloaded compressed tar file (e.g. mailman-2.1.13.tgz) to the directory we just created and then uncompress and untar it. The command below assumes that compressed tar file was downloaded into your Downloads folder. cp ~/Downloads/mailman-2.1.13.tgz . (yes, that's a space and a dot on the end of the command) tar xvzf mailman-2.1.13.tgz c) Set the proper ownership and permissions on the mailman directory: chown _mailman:_mailman /usr/local/mailman chmod a+rw,g+ws /usr/local/mailman d) Change directory in to the Mailman source directory. Assuming the you are using the mailman-2.1.13 version, type: cd /usr/local/mailman/mailman-2.1.13 e) Build Mailman: ./configure --prefix=/usr/local/mailman --with-cgi-gid=_www --with-mail-gid=_mailman f) A whole bunch of lines of code will scroll through the Terminal window. When it finishes, in the Terminal window, type: make install cd /usr/local/mailman sudo bin/check_perms -f sudo bin/check_perms -f (Repeat the check_perms until no errors are reported. If you end up with problems later, this whole step is probably where the problem will come from. Permissions are important to Mailman.) g) Set the Mailman site password: /usr/local/mailman/bin/mmsitepass xxxx [Replace xxxx with the password you want to use as the master password to the mailman application.] ======================================== Step 4) Set up your web server to serve the Mailman web pages for subscribing and administrating the mailing list. a) Change directory to the apache2 configuration directory (Apache2 is the webserver): cd /etc/apache2/ b) Edit httpd.conf with your favorite Terminal text editor such as vi or emacs). For instance, for vi, type: vi httpd.conf Add these lines to the file: ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/ Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/ Options FollowSymLinks c) Save the file and exit the editor. d) Copy the images used for the mailman web pages to where Apache expects them. In Terminal: cp /usr/local/mailman/icons/* /usr/share/httpd/icons e) Next we need to add the cron jobs that mailman needs to any existing root cron jobs. If there are no existing root cron jobs, you can just do: crontab /usr/local/mailman/cron/crontab.in However, if there are existing root cron jobs, then we need to append to it. One way way to do that is: crontab ?l | cat - /usr/local/mailman/crontab.in | crontab ? (note that this outputs the existing cron jobs, concatenated the mailman jobs to it, and the saves it as a new crontab. Make sure you have the command right or you risk losing your old jobs. You might want to backup the old jobs first with 'crontab -l > crontab.backup'). You can then edit the crontab with 'crontab -e'. You may want to comment out the gate news to mail job if you aren't doing that. ======================================== Step 5) Configure Postfix to support a separate Mailman alias file. a) Edit your Postix configuration file (possibly /etc/postfix/main.cf or if you used MailServe Snow as I mentioned above, then it's /usr/local/cutedge/postfix/etc/main.cf - you can also do this through the MailServe Snow application and add this as a custom Postfix setting) and add: alias_maps=hash:/etc/postfix/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases b) Reload postfix with: postfix reload ======================================== Step 6) Configure Mailman a) We need to let Mailman know we're using Postfix. Using you favorite means of text editing, open /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py and add below the line that says "# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.": MTA = "Postfix" ======================================== Step 7) Create your site-wide mailing list (mailman). Read the instructions in INSTALL in your mailman source directory (/Applications/Mailman/Mailman-2.1.13). In short, in the Terminal application, type: cd /usr/local/mailman bin/newlist mailman bin/config_list -i data/sitelist.cfg mailman ======================================== Step 8) Configure your system to start Mailman when it is booted. This has been a little tricky since Leopard came out so rather than have launchd start Mailman directly, we will have it run a script we put in root's home directory that does it a way I've found more reliable (by waiting one second after issuing the command to start mailman before it exits): a) In Terminal, change directory to /var/root/: cd /var/root b) Using your favorite text editor (vi, emacs, or whatever), create the file start_mailman.sh. For instance, with vi, type: vi mailman_start.sh And enter the lines: #!/bin/sh /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start sleep 1 Save and exit. c) Change permissions to make it executable: chmod 755 start_mailman.sh d) Create the Mailman startup preference file: cd /Library/LaunchDaemons touch mailman.plist c) Using your favorite method of text editing, add the following content to mailman.plist: Disabled Label mailman OnDemand ProgramArguments /var/root/start_mailman.sh ServiceIPC RunAtLoad d) Verify the file ownership and permissions: ls -l You should see one of the lines saying something like: -rw-r--r-- 5 root wheel 170 12 May 11:21 mailman.plist e) If the permissions (rw-r--r--) are not correct, type: chmod 644 mailman.plist f) If the owner (root) or group (wheel) is not correct, type: chown root:wheel mailman.plist g) Go into launchctl and enable Mailman. This should also cause it to start immediately. launchctl load -w mailman.plist (the -w is very important. The Disabled attribute in the .plist is no longer used. Instead, Disabled status for all launchd plists is stored in /var/db/laubchd.db/com.apple.launchd/overrides.plist and is set/unset by the -w on the launchctl load/unload commands. Yes, it does seems needlessly complicated). Mailman should have started. To verify, open Terminal and type: ps -efw | grep python You should see a bunch of lines like this: 78 1099 1 0 0:00.01 ?? 0:00.01 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start 78 1101 1099 0 0:08.38 ?? 0:18.67 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s 78 1102 1099 0 0:07.29 ?? 0:17.57 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s 78 1103 1099 0 0:08.46 ?? 0:18.83 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s 78 1104 1099 0 0:08.14 ?? 0:18.16 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s 78 1105 1099 0 0:07.92 ?? 0:17.73 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s 78 1107 1099 0 0:07.72 ?? 0:18.54 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s 78 1108 1099 0 0:07.80 ?? 0:17.66 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s 78 1109 1099 0 0:00.07 ?? 0:00.19 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s 0 15583 15537 0 0:00.00 ttys000 0:00.00 grep pyth (The numbers will vary. The important thing is that you see the qrunner processes.) ======================================== Step 9) Enjoy! At this point, mailman should be ready to use. Read the documentation in your source directory for instructions on setting up your mailing lists. -- Larry Stone lstone19 at stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ From andy at strugglers.net Wed Apr 28 16:47:00 2010 From: andy at strugglers.net (Andy Smith) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:47:00 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to view bounce mails Message-ID: <20100428144700.GZ6557@bitfolk.com> Hi, On one of my lists a couple of subscribers have been receiving bounce mails. I can see the bounce mails arriving in the MTA logs, and Mailman does log this fact in the bounce log, but I'm wondering about the best way to debug this. I could of course leave the subscribers to work out why they're bouncing and eventually being unsubscribed, but I'd like to see the content of the bounces to see if there is any common problem. I can't see an option for Mailman to copy bounces to list or site admin, only the option for it to forward unrecognised bounces. These bounces are being recognised, but I'd still like to see their content. Is there a good way besides copying the list's bounces address to me? Cheers, Andy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From etorres at dap.es Thu Apr 29 11:42:14 2010 From: etorres at dap.es (Esteban Torres Rodriguez) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 11:42:14 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implement umbrella list on Mailman 2.1.9 Message-ID: <4BD95476.80304@dap.es> Is it possible to implement umbrella lists Mailman 2.1.9? Do I need to run some patch? I have postfix-2.3.3, mailman 2.1.9, RHEL 5.3 bye. From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 29 18:35:30 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 09:35:30 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to view bounce mails In-Reply-To: <20100428144700.GZ6557@bitfolk.com> Message-ID: Andy Smith wrote: > >I can't see an option for Mailman to copy bounces to list or site >admin, only the option for it to forward unrecognised bounces. These >bounces are being recognised, but I'd still like to see their >content. > >Is there a good way besides copying the list's bounces address to >me? No. If you have bounce_notify_owner_on_disable set to Yes, the disable notice will contain a copy of the triggering bounce, but other than that, the actual bounce messages are not available in Mailman so if you want to see them all, copying the list's bounces address to yourself is what you need to do. Either that or hack the code to do a "forward every bounce" function. Note however that some bounces will be reported by your own outgoing MTA and information about those will be in the MTA logs. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Thu Apr 29 18:39:40 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 09:39:40 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implement umbrella list on Mailman 2.1.9 In-Reply-To: <4BD95476.80304@dap.es> Message-ID: Esteban Torres Rodriguez wrote: >Is it possible to implement umbrella lists Mailman 2.1.9? Mailman's umbrella list feature, warts and all, is available in Mailman 2.1.9. Search the FAQ at for "umbrella" for more information. >Do I need to run some patch? No. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From terri at zone12.com Fri Apr 30 05:53:11 2010 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 23:53:11 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Snow Leoparrd (MacOS X 10.6) CLIENT installation steps for Mailman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BDA5427.9040204@zone12.com> Thanks Larry! I've linked your once again excellent post into the Mac OS FAQ on the wiki: http://wiki.list.org/x/O4A9 Terri From etorres at dap.es Fri Apr 30 07:55:51 2010 From: etorres at dap.es (Esteban Torres Rodriguez) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 07:55:51 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implement umbrella list on Mailman 2.1.9 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BDA70E7.6030505@dap.es> Mark Sapiro wrote: > Esteban Torres Rodriguez wrote: > > >> Is it possible to implement umbrella lists Mailman 2.1.9? >> > > > Mailman's umbrella list feature, warts and all, is available in Mailman > 2.1.9. Search the FAQ at for "umbrella" > for more information. > > > >> Do I need to run some patch? >> > > > No. > > "warts and all" What do you mean? I have read the FAQ, but not what you mean. From Robert.Schwartz at itt.com Thu Apr 29 20:26:29 2010 From: Robert.Schwartz at itt.com (Schwartz, Robert - IS) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 13:26:29 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all Message-ID: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D407A92@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com> Does anyone know a way to block a reply to all? I would like my users to not be able to reply to all to post a message. If the want to post a message, they should post it not just reply to a previous message. ________________________________ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Corporation. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de Fri Apr 30 16:23:49 2010 From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 16:23:49 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all In-Reply-To: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D407A92@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com> References: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D407A92@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com> Message-ID: <20100430142349.GF20176@charite.de> * Schwartz, Robert - IS : > Does anyone know a way to block a reply to all? I would like my users > to not be able to reply to all to post a message. If the want to post > a message, they should post it not just reply to a previous message. Set the reply-to: to something wrong :) -- Ralf Hildebrandt Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de From mark at msapiro.net Fri Apr 30 16:23:49 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 07:23:49 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implement umbrella list on Mailman 2.1.9 In-Reply-To: <4BDA70E7.6030505@dap.es> Message-ID: Esteban Torres Rodriguez wrote: >Mark Sapiro wrote: >> >"warts and all" > >What do you mean? I have read the FAQ, but not what you mean. Quoting from dictionary.com wart [...] 3. any unattractive detrimental feature or aspect: /The biography presents the full story of the prime minister's political career, warts and all/. In this case, the unattractiveness is if a list is set as an umbrella with other lists as members, and there are people who are members of multiple sub-lists, they will receive duplicates of posts to the umbrella, one for each sub-list of which they are a member. Also, if you set a list to be an umbrella (General Options -> umbrella_list = Yes), the only thing that does is assume that all members of that list are other lists so that administrative notices such as password reminders from that list for a member whose address is sublist at example.com will be sent to sublist-owner at example.com so there can be issues with lists which have both individuals and other lists as members. That is what I meant by "warts and all". -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Fri Apr 30 17:20:19 2010 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 10:20:19 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all In-Reply-To: <20100430142349.GF20176@charite.de> References: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D407A92@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com> <20100430142349.GF20176@charite.de> Message-ID: <4BDAF533.10306@riverviewtech.net> On 04/30/10 09:23, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote: > Set the reply-to: to something wrong :) That will not work. Reply-to-All will reply to the incorrect Reply-To as well as all other senders. There is also a possibility that a spam filter will detect that the Reply-To is invalid and will consider the message spam. Reply-to-All is an end user application function that Mailman its self has no control over. A better question would be where does the OP want replies to go? Make Reply-To reflect that location. Grant. . . . From gtaylor at riverviewtech.net Fri Apr 30 17:52:38 2010 From: gtaylor at riverviewtech.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 10:52:38 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all In-Reply-To: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D407A92@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com> References: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D407A92@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com> Message-ID: <4BDAFCC6.4000102@riverviewtech.net> On 04/29/10 13:26, Schwartz, Robert - IS wrote: > Does anyone know a way to block a reply to all? To directly answer your question (and for the benefit of others searching the archives) I think the best that you will be able to do is to filter messages based on the existence of the standard reply headers ("References:" and "In-Reply-To:") and reject the message(s). Grant. . . . From cpz at tuunq.com Fri Apr 30 17:25:33 2010 From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 08:25:33 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all In-Reply-To: <20100430142349.GF20176@charite.de> References: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D407A92@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com> <20100430142349.GF20176@charite.de> Message-ID: <4BDAF66D.2060105@tuunq.com> On 4/30/2010 7:23 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote: > * Schwartz, Robert - IS: > >> Does anyone know a way to block a reply to all? I would like my users >> to not be able to reply to all to post a message. If the want to post >> a message, they should post it not just reply to a previous message. > > Set the reply-to: to something wrong :) Kinda defeats the purpose of replying at all. Robert- Why?? Most mailing lists are a conversation (of sorts). You say one thing and I say something relevant to that (like this). Almost all messaging happens like that (email, web fora, chat systems, SMS, etc). Do you want to prevent two-way conversation, force every message to me a "new" message, or what? Also, reply-all is a MUA function, not an MTA function, so changing the behavior of Mailman is kind of a band-aid solution. (That aside, you could look at the subject for a "Re:" or similar tag, but that's not reliable. You could look for mailman's X-BeenThere or X-Mailman-Version headers, which would be better... OTOH, these will prevent -all- replies that go to the list, not just reply-all.) z! From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de Fri Apr 30 18:17:51 2010 From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 18:17:51 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all In-Reply-To: <4BDAF66D.2060105@tuunq.com> References: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D407A92@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com> <20100430142349.GF20176@charite.de> <4BDAF66D.2060105@tuunq.com> Message-ID: <20100430161751.GD18400@charite.de> * Carl Zwanzig : > On 4/30/2010 7:23 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote: > >* Schwartz, Robert - IS: > > > >>Does anyone know a way to block a reply to all? I would like my users > >>to not be able to reply to all to post a message. If the want to post > >>a message, they should post it not just reply to a previous message. > > > >Set the reply-to: to something wrong :) > > Kinda defeats the purpose of replying at all. It was not my idea! -- Ralf Hildebrandt Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de From Robert.Schwartz at itt.com Fri Apr 30 17:47:51 2010 From: Robert.Schwartz at itt.com (Schwartz, Robert - IS) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 10:47:51 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] get list of users Message-ID: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D48B10F@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com> How can you get a list of all user's and addresses exported to .csv or .xls from the web. Robert P. Schwartz CAS, Inc. A wholly owned subsidiary of ITT Corporation 100 Quality Circle Huntsville, AL 35806 Phone: 256.922.4203 Fax: 256.922.4243 E-mail: robert.schwartz at itt.com ________________________________ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Corporation. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. From mark at msapiro.net Fri Apr 30 18:43:43 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 09:43:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] get list of users In-Reply-To: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D48B10F@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com> Message-ID: Schwartz, Robert - IS wrote: >How can you get a list of all user's and addresses exported to .csv or .xls from the web. See the FAQ at which, among other things will point you to the script at which runs on your workstation and can generate a .csv from the web admin interface. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From lee_d at aps.edu Fri Apr 30 18:48:47 2010 From: lee_d at aps.edu (Lee, Davis H) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 10:48:47 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Thank you -- Help with migration In-Reply-To: References: <79008F36E457BD4DAA0BBAD3C79E49F9095033D0@EX02.aps.edu.actd> Message-ID: <79008F36E457BD4DAA0BBAD3C79E49F90962D310@EX02.aps.edu.actd> Thank you! *********************************************************************** -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 8:34 AM To: Lee, Davis H; mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Thank you -- Help with migration The files in the lists/listname/ directory need to be Mailman's group - 'list' in your case. The lists/listname directories need to be SETGID - i.e. mode 2775, not 0775. sudo /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms -f (if I have the path right) should fix all of this. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan *********************************************************************** Two more questions. QUESTION ONE: Checkperms doesn't change the group owner on the symlinks under /var/lib/mailman (I get the message below no matter how many times I run checkperms -f). Should I chgrp -h on those symlinks? core at lists:~$ core at lists:~$ core at lists:~$ sudo /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms -f /var/lib/mailman/locks bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing) /var/lib/mailman/Mailman bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing) /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing) /var/lib/mailman/bin bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing) /var/lib/mailman/templates bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing) /var/lib/mailman/icons bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing) /var/lib/mailman/logs bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing) /var/lib/mailman/mail bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing) /var/lib/mailman/cron bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing) /var/lib/mailman/scripts bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing) core at lists:/var/lib/mailman$ ls -al | more total 36 drwxrwsr-x 8 root list 4096 2010-04-13 10:08 . drwxr-xr-x 33 root root 4096 2010-04-13 10:08 .. drwxrwsr-x 4 root list 4096 2005-03-20 16:17 archives lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 2010-04-13 10:08 bin -> /usr/lib/mailman/bin lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 2010-04-13 10:08 cgi-bin -> /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 2010-04-13 10:08 cron -> /usr/lib/mailman/cron drwxrwsr-x 2 root list 4096 2010-04-26 11:35 data lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 25 2010-04-13 10:08 icons -> /usr/share/images/mailman drwxrwsr-x 40 root list 4096 2010-04-13 11:02 lists lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 17 2010-04-13 10:08 locks -> /var/lock/mailman lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16 2010-04-13 10:08 logs -> /var/log/mailman lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 2010-04-13 10:08 mail -> /usr/lib/mailman/mail lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 2010-04-13 10:08 Mailman -> /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman drwxrwsr-x 37 root list 4096 2010-04-13 10:08 messages drwxrwsr-x 11 list list 4096 2010-04-13 10:27 qfiles lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 2010-04-13 10:08 scripts -> /usr/lib/mailman/scripts drwxrwsr-x 2 root list 4096 2009-06-01 05:35 spam lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12 2010-04-13 10:08 templates -> /etc/mailman -rw-r--r-- 1 root list 11 2009-06-01 05:36 .version core at lists:/var/lib/mailman$ core at lists:/var/lib/mailman$ ls -al /usr/lib/mailman/ | more total 36 drwxr-xr-x 7 root list 4096 2010-04-13 10:08 . drwxr-xr-x 60 root root 12288 2010-04-26 08:47 .. drwxr-xr-x 2 root list 4096 2010-04-13 10:08 bin drwxr-xr-x 2 root list 4096 2010-04-13 10:08 cron drwxr-xr-x 2 root list 4096 2010-04-13 10:08 mail drwxr-xr-x 11 root list 4096 2010-04-13 11:43 Mailman drwxr-xr-x 2 root list 4096 2010-04-13 10:08 scripts QUESTION TWO: Postfix is not starting (see below). How can I fix this? core at lists:/var/lib/mailman$ core at lists:/var/lib/mailman$ core at lists:/var/lib/mailman$ sudo tail /var/log/mail.log Apr 30 10:39:03 lists postfix/master[1404]: warning: /usr/lib/postfix/smtpd: bad command startup -- throttling Apr 30 10:40:03 lists postfix/smtpd[1845]: fatal: open database /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db: Invalid argument Apr 30 10:40:04 lists postfix/master[1404]: warning: process /usr/lib/postfix/smtpd pid 1845 exit status 1 Apr 30 10:40:04 lists postfix/master[1404]: warning: /usr/lib/postfix/smtpd: bad command startup -- throttling Apr 30 10:41:04 lists postfix/smtpd[1848]: fatal: open database /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db: Invalid argument Apr 30 10:41:05 lists postfix/master[1404]: warning: process /usr/lib/postfix/smtpd pid 1848 exit status 1 Apr 30 10:41:05 lists postfix/master[1404]: warning: /usr/lib/postfix/smtpd: bad command startup -- throttling Apr 30 10:42:05 lists postfix/smtpd[1851]: fatal: open database /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db: Invalid argument Apr 30 10:42:06 lists postfix/master[1404]: warning: process /usr/lib/postfix/smtpd pid 1851 exit status 1 Apr 30 10:42:06 lists postfix/master[1404]: warning: /usr/lib/postfix/smtpd: bad command startup -- throttling core at lists:/var/lib/mailman$ Thank you, Davis Lee WAN Administrator Albuquerque Public Schools 505 830 6870 From mark at msapiro.net Fri Apr 30 19:37:45 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 10:37:45 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Thank you -- Help with migration In-Reply-To: <79008F36E457BD4DAA0BBAD3C79E49F90962D310@EX02.aps.edu.actd> Message-ID: Lee, Davis H wrote: > >Two more questions. > >QUESTION ONE: Checkperms doesn't change the group owner on the symlinks >under /var/lib/mailman (I get the message below no matter how many times >I run checkperms -f). > > Should I chgrp -h on those symlinks? You can, if it works in your OS (some OSs won't change ownership of symlinks at all), and it may get rid of the check_perms messages, but it doesn't really matter. check_perms doesn't deal well with symlinks, it complains about the symlink, but fixes the target, but it is only the target mode and permissions that are relevant anyway. >QUESTION TWO: > >Postfix is not starting (see below). > >How can I fix this? > >core at lists:/var/lib/mailman$ sudo tail /var/log/mail.log >Apr 30 10:39:03 lists postfix/master[1404]: warning: >/usr/lib/postfix/smtpd: bad command startup -- throttling >Apr 30 10:40:03 lists postfix/smtpd[1845]: fatal: open database >/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db: Invalid argument >Apr 30 10:40:04 lists postfix/master[1404]: warning: process >/usr/lib/postfix/smtpd pid 1845 exit status 1 Apparently you have hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases in Postfix main.cf alias_maps list. This is good, but either the aliases.db doesn't exist or is corrupt. You need to be sure you have MTA = 'Postfix' in mm_cfg.py, and also that the Defaults.py setting POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias' points to where postalias actually is and if it doesn't, put POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/correct/path/to/postalias' in mm_cfg.py. Then run Mailman's bin/genaliases to make sure that /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases and /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db are correct and in sync. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From barry at list.org Fri Apr 30 19:42:35 2010 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 13:42:35 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Snow Leoparrd (MacOS X 10.6) CLIENT installation steps for Mailman In-Reply-To: <4BDA5427.9040204@zone12.com> References: <4BDA5427.9040204@zone12.com> Message-ID: <20100430134235.2b5413b5@heresy> On Apr 29, 2010, at 11:53 PM, Terri Oda wrote: >Thanks Larry! > >I've linked your once again excellent post into the Mac OS FAQ on the wiki: > >http://wiki.list.org/x/O4A9 Thanks Terri. I've also asked Larry to submit a bug report against mailman-administrivia so that we can update the docs. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: not available URL: From terri at zone12.com Fri Apr 30 20:03:26 2010 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 14:03:26 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all In-Reply-To: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D407A92@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com> References: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D407A92@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com> Message-ID: <4BDB1B6E.6070807@zone12.com> Schwartz, Robert - IS wrote: > Does anyone know a way to block a reply to all? I would like my users to not be able to reply to all to post a message. If the want to post a message, they should post it not just reply to a previous message. As others have said, I'm not sure this is a good idea, unless your goal is to annoy your users and impede communication. But one thing that would have the side-effect of blocking a reply-to-all is changing the list settings so that the list only accepts mails if there is exactly one recipient. You can do this under Privacy Options -> Recipient Filters Set "Ceiling on acceptable number of recipients for a posting." to 1 Then anyone hitting reply-to-all will get a message saying that their message is held because there are too many recipients, since any reply-to-all will include both the sender address and the list address. Terri From b19141 at anl.gov Fri Apr 30 20:41:32 2010 From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 13:41:32 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Terri Oda ' dated: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 14:03:26 -0400 Message-ID: <20100430184132.C8C8B40161@britaine.cis.anl.gov> >You can do this under Privacy Options -> Recipient Filters >Set "Ceiling on acceptable number of recipients for a posting." to 1 > >Then anyone hitting reply-to-all will get a message saying that their >message is held because there are too many recipients, since any >reply-to-all will include both the sender address and the list address. But if someome sends mail to the list, and has an extra recipient in the "To:" or "Cc:", the mail will also be held. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry S. Finkel Computing and Information Systems Division Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277 9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601 Building 240, Room 5.B.8 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994 From lee_d at aps.edu Fri Apr 30 22:18:16 2010 From: lee_d at aps.edu (Lee, Davis H) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 14:18:16 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] cgi in URLs Message-ID: <79008F36E457BD4DAA0BBAD3C79E49F90962D41C@EX02.aps.edu.actd> IIUC, In migrating from OS X to Ubuntu, my old URLs, listed on all the links on all the pages brought over, had addresses without /cgi-bin/, like this: http://lists.aps.edu/mailman/admin The new install expects the /cgi-bin/, like this: http://lists.aps.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/admin What's the best way to fix this? Thank you, Davis Lee WAN Administrator Albuquerque Public Schools 505 830 6870 From mark at msapiro.net Fri Apr 30 23:08:53 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 14:08:53 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] cgi in URLs In-Reply-To: <79008F36E457BD4DAA0BBAD3C79E49F90962D41C@EX02.aps.edu.actd> Message-ID: Lee, Davis H wrote: > >In migrating from OS X to Ubuntu, my old URLs, listed on all the links >on all the pages brought over, had addresses without /cgi-bin/, like >this: > >http://lists.aps.edu/mailman/admin > >The new install expects the /cgi-bin/, like this: > >http://lists.aps.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/admin > >What's the best way to fix this? If your web server is Apache, it has something in its configuration like ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/mailman/ "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/" Change that or its equivalent in your web server to ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/" You will then also find that either mm_cfg.py or Defaults.py contains DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/' If it's in mm_cfg.py, change it, or if it's in Defaults.py, override it in mm_cfg.py so you have in mm_cfg.py DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/' You will then need to run fix_url to update the web_page_url attribute for existing lists (see the FAQ at ). -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From terri at zone12.com Fri Apr 30 23:09:29 2010 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 17:09:29 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] cgi in URLs In-Reply-To: <79008F36E457BD4DAA0BBAD3C79E49F90962D41C@EX02.aps.edu.actd> References: <79008F36E457BD4DAA0BBAD3C79E49F90962D41C@EX02.aps.edu.actd> Message-ID: <4BDB4709.2010607@zone12.com> Lee, Davis H wrote: > In migrating from OS X to Ubuntu, my old URLs, listed on all the links > on all the pages brought over, had addresses without /cgi-bin/, > > What's the best way to fix this? There's a withlist script in $mailman/bin called "fixurl.py" -- you'll need to run it on lists to give them the appropriate new URLs. Assuming the new system is already set up with the new style of URL as the default, bin/withlist -l -r fix_url LISTNAME should do the trick (since it defaults to the, uh, default) Terri From mark at msapiro.net Fri Apr 30 23:17:03 2010 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 14:17:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] cgi in URLs In-Reply-To: <4BDB4709.2010607@zone12.com> Message-ID: Terri Oda wrote: >Lee, Davis H wrote: > > In migrating from OS X to Ubuntu, my old URLs, listed on all the links > > on all the pages brought over, had addresses without /cgi-bin/, > > > > What's the best way to fix this? > > >There's a withlist script in $mailman/bin called "fixurl.py" -- you'll >need to run it on lists to give them the appropriate new URLs. Assuming >the new system is already set up with the new style of URL as the default, > >bin/withlist -l -r fix_url LISTNAME > >should do the trick (since it defaults to the, uh, default) Upon rereading your the question, I see Terri's answer rather than mine is probably the one you were looking for. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Robert.Schwartz at itt.com Fri Apr 30 18:36:33 2010 From: Robert.Schwartz at itt.com (Schwartz, Robert - IS) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 11:36:33 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all Message-ID: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D48B224@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com> Grant suggested: To directly answer your question (and for the benefit of others searching the archives) I think the best that you will be able to do is to filter messages based on the existence of the standard reply headers ("References:" and "In-Reply-To:") and reject the message(s). Does anyone know how to do this: Where would you setup this filter? I can't find it in the General Options or Content Filtering. Robert ________________________________ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Corporation. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. From Robert.Schwartz at itt.com Fri Apr 30 18:53:19 2010 From: Robert.Schwartz at itt.com (Schwartz, Robert - IS) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 11:53:19 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] get list of users In-Reply-To: References: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D48B10F@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com> Message-ID: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D48B26C@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com> I do not know how to do this from a cmd prompt. The usage says: Usage: %(PROGRAM)s [options] hostname listname password Do I do this from a cmd prompt. What would be the syntax for my site? -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 11:44 AM To: Schwartz, Robert - IS; mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] get list of users Schwartz, Robert - IS wrote: >How can you get a list of all user's and addresses exported to .csv or .xls from the web. See the FAQ at which, among other things will point you to the script at which runs on your workstation and can generate a .csv from the web admin interface. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Corporation. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. From Robert.Schwartz at itt.com Fri Apr 30 20:01:28 2010 From: Robert.Schwartz at itt.com (Schwartz, Robert - IS) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 13:01:28 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List all users on one page Message-ID: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D48B3BA@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com> This is the same question I have. I don't know how to use to script in Windows XP. I only use to web to get to my mail. Nothing is saved on my system. Re: [Mailman-Users] List all users on one page Mark Sapiro Wed, 21 Apr 2010 20:10:41 -0700 Brian Luria > >Where is the best place for me to start understanding terminal commands like >you list there. I am honestly not even sure where to start. I am only used >to the web based interface. The FAQ at lists the commands and what they do. Each command has a --help option that gives the usage and options for the command. The two most useful commands for manipulating non GUI things or things for all lists at once are bin/withlist and bin/config_list. Withlist can run Python scripts against one or all lists and can invoke an interactive Python interpreter with a list instance that can be examined and changed interactively, but this requires both Python knowledge and some knowledge of Mailman internals. bin/config_list is more "friendly". For example, in this case you would just create a file containing the single line admin_member_chunksize = 100 or whatever number you need, and run bin/config_list --inputfile /path/to/above/file listname ________________________________ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Corporation. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. From Robert.Schwartz at itt.com Fri Apr 30 20:22:49 2010 From: Robert.Schwartz at itt.com (Schwartz, Robert - IS) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 13:22:49 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all In-Reply-To: <4BDB1B6E.6070807@zone12.com> References: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D407A92@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com> <4BDB1B6E.6070807@zone12.com> Message-ID: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D48B440@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com> That didn't work because the first message sent will go to yourself and the mailing list which will be blocked. If you tell it not to send it to yourself, the first message will send. If you try to reply to all to this message it will also be sent because the reply to will only have the member list. Robert P. Schwartz CAS, Inc. A wholly owned subsidiary of ITT Corporation 100 Quality Circle Huntsville, AL 35806 Phone: 256.922.4203 Fax: 256.922.4243 E-mail: robert.schwartz at itt.com -----Original Message----- From: mailman-users-bounces+robert.schwartz=itt.com at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+robert.schwartz=itt.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Terri Oda Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 1:03 PM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all Schwartz, Robert - IS wrote: > Does anyone know a way to block a reply to all? I would like my users to not be able to reply to all to post a message. If the want to post a message, they should post it not just reply to a previous message. As others have said, I'm not sure this is a good idea, unless your goal is to annoy your users and impede communication. But one thing that would have the side-effect of blocking a reply-to-all is changing the list settings so that the list only accepts mails if there is exactly one recipient. You can do this under Privacy Options -> Recipient Filters Set "Ceiling on acceptable number of recipients for a posting." to 1 Then anyone hitting reply-to-all will get a message saying that their message is held because there are too many recipients, since any reply-to-all will include both the sender address and the list address. Terri ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/robert.schwartz%40itt.com This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Corporation. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. From Robert.Schwartz at itt.com Fri Apr 30 20:27:56 2010 From: Robert.Schwartz at itt.com (Schwartz, Robert - IS) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 13:27:56 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all In-Reply-To: <4BDB1B6E.6070807@zone12.com> References: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D407A92@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com> <4BDB1B6E.6070807@zone12.com> Message-ID: <9C7E541FA0F3AE45A8ADF7FEC67BC97F026D48B464@01HSVMX09-MB1.aes.de.ittind.com> Maybe I can put a message at the top of every mail being send "Do not do a reply all". How do you do this? Robert P. Schwartz Schwartz, Robert - IS wrote: > Does anyone know a way to block a reply to all? I would like my users to not be able to reply to all to post a message. If the want to post a message, they should post it not just reply to a previous message. As others have said, I'm not sure this is a good idea, unless your goal is to annoy your users and impede communication. But one thing that would have the side-effect of blocking a reply-to-all is changing the list settings so that the list only accepts mails if there is exactly one recipient. You can do this under Privacy Options -> Recipient Filters Set "Ceiling on acceptable number of recipients for a posting." to 1 Then anyone hitting reply-to-all will get a message saying that their message is held because there are too many recipients, since any reply-to-all will include both the sender address and the list address. Terri ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/robert.schwartz%40itt.com This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Corporation. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail.