From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jul  1 03:12:15 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 18:12:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] using email to subscribe and unsubscribe users
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTil_cN9gD0Gaq2f_mssDR4E2SAfZW8CqjpNGP0Ox@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimd9gZi_VzkW6abw3Meatb52ocOf-1yeGeTv2D5@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC19520100630080940062596890059@msapiro>
	<AANLkTil_cN9gD0Gaq2f_mssDR4E2SAfZW8CqjpNGP0Ox@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C2BEB6F.1080306@msapiro.net>

On 6/30/2010 10:50 AM, Adam Parker, OD wrote:
> ok, looks like Gmail was blocking because I had a forward going to my
> address from my address.  Removing the confirmation allowed me to get
> the approval email.  One question: how do I stop this email from going
> to the admin? (these emails will be automated so the admin need not see
> the following
> 
>     The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your
>     original message.



You got that message because subscribe_policy was Require approval. If
subscribe_policy is either Confirm or Confirm and approve, no "results
of your email commands" message will be sent. Only the confirmation
request will be sent.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jul  1 03:26:41 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 18:26:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] using email to subscribe and unsubscribe users
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinaFw1fFvdiKuH55dbxyUd5vfuUDkNenZA5NtxX@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimd9gZi_VzkW6abw3Meatb52ocOf-1yeGeTv2D5@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC19520100630080940062596890059@msapiro>
	<AANLkTil_cN9gD0Gaq2f_mssDR4E2SAfZW8CqjpNGP0Ox@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinaFw1fFvdiKuH55dbxyUd5vfuUDkNenZA5NtxX@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C2BEED1.6090205@msapiro.net>

On 6/30/2010 10:55 AM, Adam Parker, OD wrote:
> one more question: can I add something to the subscribe email that will
> auto-approve members so I don't have to do it?


No.


> I want some sort of
> security on the list, but if I'm sending the subscribe, then I don't
> want to have to go into the backend and approve them as well


If you're interested in security from spammers, e.g., you could consider
not requiring subscription approval and setting
default_member_moderation to Yes so that new member posts are moderated
until you are familiar with the poster, at which point you can
unmoderate the poster in the process of approving a post.

If you are interested in maintaining the privacy of your list, this
won't help.

I don't know what ability you have in your hosted cPanel environment to
process email or why you are using email to subscribe people, but the
FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/uIA9> may help.

If you need to subscribe people by email and have enough control over
how email is processed, you might be able to set up an email address
which would receive your subscription email and invoke the web interface
per the above FAQ and it's linked articles to send an invitation to the
intended subscribee. Then when the subscribee accepts the invitation, no
approval is required even if it would be for a normal subscription.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adamparkerod at gmail.com  Thu Jul  1 03:33:29 2010
From: adamparkerod at gmail.com (Adam Parker, OD)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 21:33:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] using email to subscribe and unsubscribe users
In-Reply-To: <4C2BEED1.6090205@msapiro.net>
References: <AANLkTimd9gZi_VzkW6abw3Meatb52ocOf-1yeGeTv2D5@mail.gmail.com> 
	<PC19520100630080940062596890059@msapiro>
	<AANLkTil_cN9gD0Gaq2f_mssDR4E2SAfZW8CqjpNGP0Ox@mail.gmail.com> 
	<AANLkTinaFw1fFvdiKuH55dbxyUd5vfuUDkNenZA5NtxX@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4C2BEED1.6090205@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikiJzOcQr4XeJXslOuHAPh8lkg-zG6-aG-c5NMf@mail.gmail.com>

I am using Joomla for a website and my client wants members to be able to
subscribe and unsubacribe from the website.  I have a bridge that does this,
but it doesn't know when people expire from the website to delete them from
Mailman.  One of the tools at my disposal is to send an email when someone
expires as a website member - it sends an email to list-request with the
email to unsubscribe.  So, I don't have to do anything when they do not pay
websit dues - it just removes them automatically.  We decided to let users
manually subscribe via the website and then they are auto-deleted via the
email when they expire.  Thanks for the help.


On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 9:26 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 6/30/2010 10:55 AM, Adam Parker, OD wrote:
> > one more question: can I add something to the subscribe email that will
> > auto-approve members so I don't have to do it?
>
>
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jul  1 06:26:47 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 21:26:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Processing and User Notifications
In-Reply-To: <W769828001178741277908947@webmail6>
Message-ID: <PC1952010063021264705155aa8cd72@msapiro>

Ian Prietz wrote:
>
>We have a Mailman service that is hosted. I previously asked a question re: Bounce notifications. Mark indirectly suggested that I change my bounce processing score to <=1. I think what I am going to do for initial testing is set the bounce score to .5. That way I will be notified of pretty much any instance that something comes up.
>
>Then after kinks get worked out, I can raise it to 1, so then I am only notified of hard bounces.
>
>1. Does that sound like a good idea or a good place to start?


Actually, documentation notwithstanding, Mailman doesn't distinguish
hard and soft bounces for scoring purposes. Bounces are considered
permanent or temporary based on how they are reported in the DSN. For
an RFC 3464 compliant DSN, a bounce is scored 1 point if it's action
starts with 'fail' and 0 otherwise.

For errors reported directly during Mailman's SMTP, a 5xx status is a
bounce, and a 4xx status is retried.


>2. Would a hard bounce be something from a server like "Undeliverable due to File Attachment Limit exceeded" or "Unknown User"?


Anything that says the message wasn't delivered is a score = 1 bounce
(if it is recognized).


>3. What type of bounce would a "Too many recipients as this time" or "Delivery Delay" messages be? Soft or Hard?


Generally, 'delay' type DSNs are ignored by Mailman and not considered
bounces at all.


>4. Is there a way to keep a subscriber from being notified when their account is disabled? Like should I set the Membership Disabled message to 0 so they are just removed and I am notified that way? I am trying to do as much behind the scenes without them being notified and worrying about what happened.


You can set bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings to 0 and set
send_goodbye_message to no, but consider that if the address is truly
undeliverable, the user won't receive any notices anyway, and if not,
you might want them to know there is a problem.


>5. How can I simulate a bounce to test this out. I tried adding a bogus email address from our domain to the list, and it seemed to make delivery to the other recipients take longer, and I don't remember that email address' bounce score raising any higher. I at least expected to get a "User does not exist" message.


That depends in part on your MTA. Also, what is a bogus email address?
If you want a truly bogus address, see RFC 2606. I suggest
user at xxx.invalid.

Assuming the domain is truly non-existent, the MTA may verify it during
SMTP with Mailman and return either a 4xx or 5xx status depending on
MTA configuration (domain verification during SMTP with Mailman is not
recommended for performance reasons). In this case, a 5xx status will
be scored as a bounce and a 4xx status will be retried by Mailman at
(default) 1 hour intervals for (default) 5 days after which Mailman
just gives up and does not score it as a bounce.

 
>As I said before, I want to be notified of any problems to begin with to see if I need to contact any administrators in case our domain is blocked. And then, once these kinks have been worked out, I would like to just receive FAILURES or ERRORS.


Basically, anything that results in the message not being delivered
(except endless retry of 4xx SMTP status) will result in a bounce. If
you want to see every such bounce, you need to be sure that at least
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner and
bounce_notify_owner_on_disable are set to Yes and
bounce_score_threshold is <= 1.0.

As I said, as far as Mailman is concerned pretty much anything that
results in a 'bounce' is a FAILURE or ERROR. DSNs which say
effectively "I haven't delivered your mail yet, but I'm still trying"
or DSNs which say "I successfully delivered your mail" (if any MTA
actually sends those) are ignored. Anything else says "I didn't
deliver your mail" and is a bounce scored as 1.0, regardless of
whether it says "the address is totally non-existent" or "the mailbox
was over quota" or "the receiving MX was off line" or any other reason.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jul  1 06:46:29 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 21:46:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachment
In-Reply-To: <90649.79948.qm@web82302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201006302146290593f777c12e@msapiro>

Brent Barrett wrote:

>After posting messages, subscribers receive a txt attachment showing the name of list and list url
>
>It is not needed and how can I turn off this feature


This is the msg_footer. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9>
for why this occurs and what you can do about it.

If as you say, you don't want the footer, go to the list's admin
Non-digest options page and clear the msg_footer box and Submit Your
Changes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil  Thu Jul  1 15:12:22 2010
From: Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil (Hicks, Robert CTR)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 09:12:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] plain text passwords
Message-ID: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1055427EE@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>

Occasionally I get the user that goes off the deep end about sending a password in an email. Is there a blurb somewhere that I can give them to explain the situation?

Bob


From bob at bobforthejob.com  Thu Jul  1 15:33:00 2010
From: bob at bobforthejob.com (Bob Fishel)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 09:33:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] plain text passwords
In-Reply-To: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1055427EE@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>
References: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1055427EE@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikmeL0BuFJtsKLKMaQNgqyAnKT7MpyKcMMfSBMk@mail.gmail.com>

I have a note on my signup page that says something to the effect of
"don't use an important password as it is occasionally mailed back to
you in cleartext" In fact I think it is standard...

On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Hicks, Robert CTR
<Robert.L.Hicks at uscg.mil> wrote:
> Occasionally I get the user that goes off the deep end about sending a password in an email. Is there a blurb somewhere that I can give them to explain the situation?
>
> Bob
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bobfishel%40gmail.com
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jul  1 15:39:11 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 06:39:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] plain text passwords
In-Reply-To: <E2F4A8FFBEBA9145AB316E4A4F283BE1055427EE@emo-exmb-m-202.main.ads.uscg.mil>
Message-ID: <PC195201007010639110046f6e0cff9@msapiro>

Hicks, Robert CTR wrote:

>Occasionally I get the user that goes off the deep end about sending a password in an email. Is there a blurb somewhere that I can give them to explain the situation?


You could refer them to the user's manual section at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node15.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jul  1 15:41:47 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 06:41:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] plain text passwords
In-Reply-To: <PC195201007010639110046f6e0cff9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC195201007010641470156cda42d4b@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Hicks, Robert CTR wrote:
>
>>Occasionally I get the user that goes off the deep end about sending a password in an email. Is there a blurb somewhere that I can give them to explain the situation?
>
>
>You could refer them to the user's manual section at
><http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node15.html>.


And I meant to add FYI, that plain text passwords and reminders are
going away in Mailman 3.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jul  1 18:33:47 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 09:33:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Few questions and details
In-Reply-To: <4C2AD8E2.9010409@jonitoyryla.eu>
References: <4C29A62F.2050003@jonitoyryla.eu> <4C2A0235.3010806@msapiro.net>
	<4C2AD8E2.9010409@jonitoyryla.eu>
Message-ID: <4C2CC36B.5010303@msapiro.net>

On 6/29/2010 10:40 PM, Joni T?yryl? wrote:

> The "Welcome" text font is smaller in admin- page.
> 
> If you compare:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/admin


Yes I see that now. Thanks.


> Also, admin page has brackets around an email while listinfo has not ;)


The two messages "(Send questions and comments to mailman at example.com.)"
on the admin overview and "If you are having trouble using the lists,
please contact mailman at grizz.org." on the listinfo overview are
different messages with different context. It is appropriate for the
admin overview message to be parenthetical and the listinfo overview
message to not be.

Further, removing the parentheses from the admin message or adding them
to the listinfo message changes the i18n message string and breaks 36
existing translations (or 35 not counting the Finnish translation you
are working on.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From umarzuki at gmail.com  Thu Jul  1 19:07:58 2010
From: umarzuki at gmail.com (Umarzuki Mochlis)
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 01:07:58 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] allow non-subscribed users to send email
In-Reply-To: <PC195201006290654450390d617e773@msapiro>
References: <AANLkTil0owjd555KFOQud2z0iqGB0chT6VEHBfAwWGaH@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195201006290654450390d617e773@msapiro>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim22adkdi-2-xzUJzvRZxFgAzP-XTQeX4cSkTiW@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/29/10, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
> Umarzuki Mochlis wrote:
>
> >I know this is so not what mailing list admin normally should allow but it
> >has been asked for and the one asked worries more about complains such as
> >"why this person do not have permission to send to this list" etc. Anyway,
> >how do i allow anyone valid mail address to a list?
>
>
>
> Go to the list admin web interface Privacy options... -> Sender filters
> page and set generic_nonmember_action to Accept.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
Regards,

Umarzuki Mochlis
http://debmal.my

From subads at gmail.com  Fri Jul  2 00:04:52 2010
From: subads at gmail.com (c cc)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 17:04:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unable to remove email address
Message-ID: <AANLkTimLsf3u599aE7DpJKr63_EpoIENNWTGkXyZrXqZ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

In membership list, we noticed one of our subscriber's email address
showing two email addresses. And when I tried to unsubscribe that
particular email address, it was giving me the following message:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Error Unsubscribing:
 .example at examplee.com example at example.com --Not subscribed.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does anyone know how to remove this type of email address? Thanks!

Charles

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jul  2 01:27:55 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 16:27:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unable to remove email address
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimLsf3u599aE7DpJKr63_EpoIENNWTGkXyZrXqZ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010070116275500463005ba65@msapiro>

c cc wrote:
>
>In membership list, we noticed one of our subscriber's email address
>showing two email addresses. And when I tried to unsubscribe that
>particular email address, it was giving me the following message:
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Error Unsubscribing:
> .example at examplee.com example at example.com --Not subscribed.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Does anyone know how to remove this type of email address? Thanks!


Is this really an email address ".example at examplee.com
example at example.com" or is it an address of "example at example.com" with
a real name of ".example at examplee.com"?

If the former, see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/UIA9>.

If the latter, just go to the list's admin Membership Management... ->
Membership List pages and edit the real name.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From troy.campbell at fedex.com  Fri Jul  2 01:23:30 2010
From: troy.campbell at fedex.com (Troy Campbell)
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 17:23:30 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem sending emails out
Message-ID: <4C2D2372.8000901@fedex.com>

The issue I'm having is that my mailman server is no
longer sending email out.  There was an issue with it
earlier in the day where VCS shut it down because of
the disk set monitor script was not completing.

I'm running:
    mailman-2.1.9-4.el5

This was working up till today.  I did some googling and
there are qrunner processes running:
[root at request1 mailman]# ps -ef | grep qrunner
mailman  13235 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:01 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  13236 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  13237 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  13238 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  13239 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  13240 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  13241 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:01 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  13242 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s

check_perms says everything is ok

crond is running

mailmanctl is running

I'm running postfix 2.3.3

Any help is much appreciated!

Troy

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jul  2 02:09:18 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 17:09:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem sending emails out
In-Reply-To: <4C2D2372.8000901@fedex.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520100701170918031259909d8a@msapiro>

Troy Campbell wrote:

>The issue I'm having is that my mailman server is no
>longer sending email out.  There was an issue with it
>earlier in the day where VCS shut it down because of
>the disk set monitor script was not completing.
>
>I'm running:
>    mailman-2.1.9-4.el5
>
>This was working up till today.  I did some googling and
>there are qrunner processes running:
>[root at request1 mailman]# ps -ef | grep qrunner
>mailman  13235 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:01 /usr/bin/python 
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman  13236 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman  13237 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman  13238 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman  13239 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman  13240 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman  13241 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:01 /usr/bin/python 
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman  13242 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s


Good.


>check_perms says everything is ok


Good


>crond is running


Irrelevant for non-digest mail delivery with Mailman 2.1.x


>mailmanctl is running


Good.


>I'm running postfix 2.3.3
>
>Any help is much appreciated!


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

What's in Mailman's queues (/var/spool/mailman/* in RHEL)?

What's in Mailman's logs, particularly smtp, smtp-failure and error?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From troy.campbell at fedex.com  Fri Jul  2 18:29:31 2010
From: troy.campbell at fedex.com (Troy Campbell)
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 11:29:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem sending emails out
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100701170918031259909d8a@msapiro>
References: <4C2D2372.8000901@fedex.com>
	<PC19520100701170918031259909d8a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <DC897A477FBE034FA867FAE8BEEC39E106E977F1@MEMEXCH07V.corp.ds.fedex.com>

Things magically started working after about an hour and a half so it
must have been something else this time.  Anyway, much appreciate your
timely reponse!

Regards,
Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 6:09 PM
To: Troy Campbell; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Problem sending emails out

Troy Campbell wrote:

>The issue I'm having is that my mailman server is no
>longer sending email out.  There was an issue with it
>earlier in the day where VCS shut it down because of
>the disk set monitor script was not completing.
>
>I'm running:
>    mailman-2.1.9-4.el5
>
>This was working up till today.  I did some googling and
>there are qrunner processes running:
>[root at request1 mailman]# ps -ef | grep qrunner
>mailman  13235 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:01 /usr/bin/python 
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman  13236 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman  13237 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman  13238 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman  13239 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman  13240 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman  13241 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:01 /usr/bin/python 
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman  13242 13231  0 16:26 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s


Good.


>check_perms says everything is ok


Good


>crond is running


Irrelevant for non-digest mail delivery with Mailman 2.1.x


>mailmanctl is running


Good.


>I'm running postfix 2.3.3
>
>Any help is much appreciated!


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

What's in Mailman's queues (/var/spool/mailman/* in RHEL)?

What's in Mailman's logs, particularly smtp, smtp-failure and error?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mj at mjw.se  Sun Jul  4 02:53:03 2010
From: mj at mjw.se (mattias jonsson)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 02:53:03 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] The aliases file
Message-ID: <002a01cb1b13$41f11bc0$3f16e255@mj>

How to generate the /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases file?
I tryedtouch /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases 
Work but no mailman info in the file


From rob at colorist.org  Sun Jul  4 00:43:39 2010
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 15:43:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] quote-trimming handler
Message-ID: <2B859855-3EB6-4FFE-8A51-2C6F03DFE919@colorist.org>

I would be very interested in hearing of various mechanisms for trimming over-quoting, including a hold on replies that match some kind of regexp.  I know about M. Sapiro's posting at 
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-April/061227.html
which refers me (in the bottom link) to the FAQ _in toto_, but if there's a more pointed location or recent thread, I'd like to know.

Before I started running Mailman a decade or two ago, I used SmartList, for which I wrote and contributed a quote-aware filter.  I would be interested in contributing this work to Mailman if it hasn't already been done, or superseded by other concerns.

thank you in advance.
Rob

--
Rob Lingelbach
rob at colorist.org


From karthik.vasanth at gmail.com  Sun Jul  4 03:17:22 2010
From: karthik.vasanth at gmail.com (V Karthik)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 06:47:22 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help for mailman
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimOu-U9_hs_R9n58Gx95KxsoGaULFFXjoBVenEp@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimOu-U9_hs_R9n58Gx95KxsoGaULFFXjoBVenEp@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimUPgJeOmI_snq-XYspa9OiGk3_bOOlsgx_YSVX@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,


I have already searched for this problem in the FAQ but i am not getting any
solution. Please help by replying to karthik.vasanth at gmail.com

I have created a new mailing list in mailman by using newlist command. Also
i have added that in aliases file.

When i type "list_lists" command, the newly created list is visible.

But if i check i the URL in web browser, the newly created list is not
visible. Please help me how to bring that newly created list in the webpage.

Thanks in advance.


-- 
Best Regards,

V.Karthik





-- 
Best Regards,

V.Karthik

From karthik.vasanth at gmail.com  Sun Jul  4 16:13:29 2010
From: karthik.vasanth at gmail.com (V Karthik)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 19:43:29 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help for mailman
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimOu-U9_hs_R9n58Gx95KxsoGaULFFXjoBVenEp@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimOu-U9_hs_R9n58Gx95KxsoGaULFFXjoBVenEp@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTilGs55rvt-cJA0MrW4E_elPKHaKUcqQkHfo3MQC@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I have tried many ways to post my query in this list. I am getting auto
response saying this is not valid.
Please some one give me the solution or please tell me the correct way o
posting the query.


I have created a new mailing list in mailman by using newlist command. Also
i have added that in aliases file.

When i type "list_lists" command, the newly created list is visible.

But if i check i the URL in web browser, the newly created list is not
visible. Please help me how to bring that newly created list in the webpage.

Thanks in advance.


-- 
Best Regards,

V.Karthik





-- 
Best Regards,

V.Karthik

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jul  4 16:32:10 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 07:32:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help for mailman
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTilGs55rvt-cJA0MrW4E_elPKHaKUcqQkHfo3MQC@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201007040732100296f0cdc272@msapiro>

V Karthik wrote:
>
>I have tried many ways to post my query in this list. I am getting auto
>response saying this is not valid.
>Please some one give me the solution or please tell me the correct way o
>posting the query.


Send your post to mailman-users at python.org. Your initial posts to this
address were delayed because 1) you hadn't joined the list, and 2)
after you joined the list your initial post(s) are moderated to ensure
you are not just going to spam the list.

Also see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/2IA9> regarding why you do
not see your own posts in Gmail.



>I have created a new mailing list in mailman by using newlist command. Also
>i have added that in aliases file.
>
>When i type "list_lists" command, the newly created list is visible.
>
>But if i check i the URL in web browser, the newly created list is not
>visible. Please help me how to bring that newly created list in the webpage.


The list is not visible on overview pages because either the list's
Privacy options... -> Subscription rules -> advertised setting is No
or the host name in the list's web_page_url attribute doesn't match
the host in the URL you use to visit the overview page.

See
  bin/newlist --help
  bin/fix_url.py
  the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9>
  possibly other FAQ articles.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jul  4 16:46:19 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 07:46:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] The aliases file
In-Reply-To: <002a01cb1b13$41f11bc0$3f16e255@mj>
Message-ID: <PC195201007040746190468a7cfb7e7@msapiro>

mattias jonsson wrote:

>How to generate the /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases file?
>I tryedtouch /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases 
>Work but no mailman info in the file


The data/aliases file is only generated if you set

MTA = 'Postfix'

in mm_cfg.py. Once that is set, you can run Mailman's bin/genaliases to
populate it from existing lists. See
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-integration.html>.

If you are not using Postfix as your MTA, see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/joA9> and the other posts and FAQs linked from
there.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jul  4 16:55:04 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 07:55:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] quote-trimming handler
In-Reply-To: <2B859855-3EB6-4FFE-8A51-2C6F03DFE919@colorist.org>
Message-ID: <PC1952010070407550404378836d2f9@msapiro>

Rob Lingelbach wrote:

>I would be very interested in hearing of various mechanisms for trimming over-quoting, including a hold on replies that match some kind of regexp.  I know about M. Sapiro's posting at 
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-April/061227.html
>which refers me (in the bottom link) to the FAQ _in toto_, but if there's a more pointed location or recent thread, I'd like to know.


Actually, that FAQ link used to go to the specific article which is now
at <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9> before the FAQ was moved.

That FAQ discusses how to install custom handlers to do these kinds of
things.


>Before I started running Mailman a decade or two ago, I used SmartList, for which I wrote and contributed a quote-aware filter.  I would be interested in contributing this work to Mailman if it hasn't already been done, or superseded by other concerns.


I too would be interested if this is done using Python or if it can be
refactored for Python.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dunkel at calamus.net  Mon Jul  5 11:29:07 2010
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 11:29:07 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.13 and Unicode
Message-ID: <4C31A5E3.2060505@calamus.net>

I wonder if there is any simple way to have my Mailman 2.1.13 strings 
set to Unicode (UTF-8).

I have seen that the Mailman 3.0 announcements even talk about an end to 
the "Unicode story", but as I am no early starter and am glad to finally 
have 2.1.13 running fine here, I would like to get some advice what to 
do to have the Mailman interfaces in Unicode, finally.

Thank you in advance for your hints,
Ulf Dunkel

From rob at colorist.org  Mon Jul  5 07:34:45 2010
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 22:34:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] quote-trimming handler
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010070407550404378836d2f9@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010070407550404378836d2f9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <2DADA25B-9679-45A7-9A2E-859B9D2F3AD2@colorist.org>


On Jul 4, 2010, 

> Actually, that FAQ link used to go to the specific article which is now
> at <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9> before the FAQ was moved.
> 
> That FAQ discusses how to install custom handlers to do these kinds of
> things.

Thank you, I'll see if I can work up an understanding of it.

procmail recipes for enabling rejection :

http://www.animalgenome.org/SmartList/contrib/reject_garbage.txt

the specific recipe for rejecting a message with overquoting was this one below.  The weighting of quoted versus non-quoted lines, represented by the numbers 20 and -10, was arrived at by trial and error, and as I recall, was fairly lenient toward quoting so as not to make too many subscribers complain.  Looks like I was pedantic enough in text of the rejection message.  Also, today the quoting is done with some form of rich text at times, is it not?
 

-----cut here----

# mine (rob <a> colorist.org , 1998)
:0 hBHw
*  20^1 ^>
* -10^1 ^[^>]
    {
        :0c
        | formail -i "Subject: ***quote REJECT engaged"| $SENDMAIL -oi $maintainer

        :0
        | quotereject -attach
    }

case $function in
  -attach)
    ($formail -i"From: $listreq" -rtA"X-Loop: $listaddr" < $tmprequest ;\
     $echo "Your mail to the mailinglist has been intercepted and"
     $echo "is being returned to you because it it appears to the list server"
     $echo "to contain an excessive amount of quoted material."
     $echo "Brief quoting is fine, but please quote only for context."
     $echo "Do not quote other messages in their entirety, or quote"
     $echo "message headers or signature files.  "
     $echo " "
     $echo "...excessive quoting is a waste of resources."
     $echo "If you feel that you've edited your message adequately but"
     $echo "it was still returned to you, you can appeal to the administator,"
     $echo "rob <a> colorist.org"
     $echo " "
     $echo "[message follows]"
     $echo " "; cat $tmprequest)\
     | $SENDMAIL $sendmailOPT $sender
    shift ;;
esac

-----cut here-----

Rob
--
Rob Lingelbach
rob at colorist.org


From marc.celier at gmx.fr  Mon Jul  5 13:56:27 2010
From: marc.celier at gmx.fr (marc celier)
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 13:56:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] full list of members
Message-ID: <20100705115859.127730@gmx.com>

?Hi guys,

I had a quick view on the faq but could not see an answer for what I'm trying to do, apologies if this has been asked before.

How can I see the list of all members in only one page, currently all members are listed in alpabetical order A, B,C .... I have to click on a letter to see those whose name start with a specific letter.

maybe a regular expression can help, but don't know how to do it. I have admin right to the server GUI, but not in CLI.

Would appreciate someone to help me.

thanks in advance.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jul  5 15:59:25 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 06:59:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] full list of members
In-Reply-To: <20100705115859.127730@gmx.com>
References: <20100705115859.127730@gmx.com>
Message-ID: <4C31E53D.1040402@msapiro.net>

On 7/5/2010 4:56 AM, marc celier wrote:
> 
> I had a quick view on the faq but could not see an answer for what
> I'm trying to do, apologies if this has been asked before.
> 
> How can I see the list of all members in only one page, currently all
> members are listed in alpabetical order A, B,C .... I have to click
> on a letter to see those whose name start with a specific letter.


The FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/aYA9> says in part:

    *  Visit the admin Membership Management...->Membership List pages
one by one and copy/paste/edit the results. (Since 2.1.10, you can set
admin_member_chunksize on the General Options page to a number larger
than the number of list members to see the whole Membership List on one
page - not recommended for large lists.)


> maybe a regular expression can help, but don't know how to do it. I
> have admin right to the server GUI, but not in CLI.


If your Mailman version is 2.1.10 or newer, set admin_member_chunksize
on the list's General Options page > the number of list members. Prior
to 2.1.10, it is not possible to set admin_member_chunksize via the GUI.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jul  5 16:45:06 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 07:45:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.13 and Unicode
In-Reply-To: <4C31A5E3.2060505@calamus.net>
Message-ID: <PC1952010070507450604682fa7b69a@msapiro>

Ulf Dunkel wrote:

>I wonder if there is any simple way to have my Mailman 2.1.13 strings 
>set to Unicode (UTF-8).


For English language lists, it should be as simple as putting

add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'utf-8', 'ltr')

in mm_cfg.py. This has not been done in the distribution for
superstitious reasons. Note that the i18n call _('English (USA)')
that's in Defaults.py has been intentionally omitted above. You don't
want it in the mm_cfg.py context.

For another language which is not already utf-8, e.g. German, in
addition to putting

add_language('de', 'German', 'utf-8', 'ltr')

in mm_cfg.py, you also need to transliterate the message catalog and
templates to from iso-8859-1 to utf-8. I.e. you need to do something
like

#!/bin/sh
cd $prefix
temp=mktemp
for file in `ls templates/de` ; do
  iconv -f iso-8859-1 -t utf-8 -o $temp templates/de/$file
  cp $temp templates/de/$file
done
cd messages/de/LC_MESSAGES
iconv -f iso-8859-1 -t utf-8 mailman.po | \
  sed '/^"Content-Type:/s/charset=.*\\n/charset=utf-8\\n/ > $temp
cp $temp mailman.po
msgfmt -o mailman.mo mailman.po

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rclemings at gmail.com  Mon Jul  5 19:34:22 2010
From: rclemings at gmail.com (Russell Clemings)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 10:34:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] filtering based on message content
Message-ID: <AANLkTikia-bKsacTW4zbHjX6NjRQBFQRMi6SDqQdWG2y@mail.gmail.com>

I've had a request from the boss to filter incoming messages to some of our
lists based on the message content. Specifically, the request is to hold all
messages containing the third of George Carlin's seven words (and presumably
by extension also the sixth), which a couple of our subscribers seem to find
suitable for use in any context.

My first thought, not contradicted by a quick FAQ search, was that there's
no way Mailman can do this on its own, at least without hacking core,
because it's not scanning the whole message. My second thought was that Spam
Assassin could be set to flag the offending messages; Mailman is already set
to hold messages that have the spam flag set. But that seems like kind of a
kludge.

Actually, I take that back. My first thought was to just ban the offenders.
But that's not going to fly.

Any other ideas?

rac

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jul  5 20:16:08 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:16:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] filtering based on message content
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikia-bKsacTW4zbHjX6NjRQBFQRMi6SDqQdWG2y@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201007051116080718c322b296@msapiro>

Russell Clemings wrote:

>I've had a request from the boss to filter incoming messages to some of our
>lists based on the message content. Specifically, the request is to hold all
>messages containing the third of George Carlin's seven words (and presumably
>by extension also the sixth), which a couple of our subscribers seem to find
>suitable for use in any context.
>
>My first thought, not contradicted by a quick FAQ search, was that there's
>no way Mailman can do this on its own, at least without hacking core,
>because it's not scanning the whole message.


Yes, and no depending on what you mean by "hacking core" (or is that
"hacking code"?).

The relevant FAQ is <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>.

The handler could be as simple as

import re
from Mailman import Errors
from Mailman.Handlers.Hold import hold_for_approval

class BadWords(Errors.HoldMessage):
    reason = 'Message has bad words'
    rejection = 'Your message has contains forbidden words.'

BADWORDS = re.compile(r'(\W|^)word3(\W|$)|(\W|^)word6(\W|$)', re.I)

def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
    for part in msg.walk():
        if part.is_multipart():
            continue
        if BADWORDS.search(part.get_payload(decode=True)):
            hold_for_approval(mlist, msg, msgdata, BadWords)



>My second thought was that Spam
>Assassin could be set to flag the offending messages; Mailman is already set
>to hold messages that have the spam flag set. But that seems like kind of a
>kludge.


Perhaps, but it is probably easier to manage.


>Actually, I take that back. My first thought was to just ban the offenders.
>But that's not going to fly.


Too bad.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jul  5 20:43:22 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:43:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] quote-trimming handler
In-Reply-To: <2DADA25B-9679-45A7-9A2E-859B9D2F3AD2@colorist.org>
Message-ID: <PC1952010070511432203595824e73d@msapiro>

Rob Lingelbach wrote:
>
>the specific recipe for rejecting a message with overquoting was this one below.  The weighting of quoted versus non-quoted lines, represented by the numbers 20 and -10, was arrived at by trial and error, and as I recall, was fairly lenient toward quoting so as not to make too many subscribers complain.  Looks like I was pedantic enough in text of the rejection message.  Also, today the quoting is done with some form of rich text at times, is it not?
> 
>
>-----cut here----
>
># mine (rob <a> colorist.org , 1998)
>:0 hBHw
>*  20^1 ^>
>* -10^1 ^[^>]


The attached Quoting.py is a handler which could be installed per the
FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9> to do essentially what it says in
its docstring.

If I understand your procmail conditions , they would correspond
roughly to RATIO = 0.5 in the attached, i.e. quoted lines >= 0.5 *
unquoted lines, but not exactly because yours includes the message
headers which presumably would all be unquoted.

Also, the attached handler holds the message rather than rejects it,
although it could easily be changed to reject.

A proper implementation would make this hold/reject/discard decision a
list setting as well as making the ratio and the regexp for a quoted
line list settings too.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jul  5 20:50:31 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:50:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] quote-trimming handler
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010070511432203595824e73d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1952010070511503105155824e7e2@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>The attached Quoting.py ...


This time, it's really attached (renamed Quoting.py.txt to get through
content filtering)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: Quoting.py.txt
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100705/7d09f152/attachment.txt>

From rob at colorist.org  Mon Jul  5 21:02:03 2010
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 12:02:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] quote-trimming handler
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010070511503105155824e7e2@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010070511503105155824e7e2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <89A21845-7262-4E9C-AD42-F5E4A6A5A75E@colorist.org>


On Jul 5, 2010, at 11:50 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> This time, it's really attached (renamed Quoting.py.txt to get through
> content filtering)

This will be a lot of fun to look at and implement.  Holding the message is a much better option than a rejection.  And now I know how to sneak suitable attachments through Mailman.

--
Rob Lingelbach
rob at colorist.org


From daniel at degu.cl  Tue Jul  6 20:04:03 2010
From: daniel at degu.cl (Daniel Hernandez)
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 14:04:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] some users recive email but they can't send
In-Reply-To: <8A17F10FEBA5C841956578C5AD9027D31418A4@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>
References: <87vd91tuc9.wl%daniel@degu.cl>
	<8A17F10FEBA5C841956578C5AD9027D31418A4@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <87d3v0a3n0.wl%daniel@degu.cl>

Thanks, Steff.

At Wed, 30 Jun 2010 14:29:12 +0100,
Steff Watkins wrote:
> 
> > Remote host said: 554 <chile-datos at mail.degu.cl>: Relay access denied
> 
> Second thought on this (still not a Mailman problem, OK?)
> 
> Has the user concerned setup their mail client to correctly authenticate
> with the mail server?
> 
> It could be that their mail client is using the correct transmission
> path but when trying to negotiate with the mailserver it has not been
> setup to properly authenticate them with that mailserver.
> 
> As such, the email would be from an "unauthorised user" and so would be
> bounced back.
> 
> Again, this is mainly an anti-spam measure.
> 
> Regards,
> S Watkins
> ---------------
> Steff Watkins    Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD
> Systems programmer   Email: s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk 
> Systems Team    Phone: +44 (0)20 7942 6000 opt 2
> ========
> Many were increasingly of the opinion that they'd all made a big mistake
> in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that
> even the trees had been a bad move, and that no one should ever have
> left the oceans. - HHGTTG
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/daniel%40degu.cl

From geraud.guibert at free.fr  Tue Jul  6 17:02:37 2010
From: geraud.guibert at free.fr (geraud.guibert at free.fr)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 17:02:37 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] many shunted messages
In-Reply-To: <399709314.7197651278428548542.JavaMail.root@zimbra20-e3.priv.proxad.net>
Message-ID: <425795095.7197751278428557303.JavaMail.root@zimbra20-e3.priv.proxad.net>

hello everyone,

got many shunted messages in the mailman qfiles with
most of them that indicate 
'listname': 'list1' OR 'list2' ... 'listN',
'tolist': 1,
'whichq' /.../qfiles/archive

as far as i understand it, doesn't this means that the 
corresponding mails are in error due to archiving process/mailqueue ?!

on the other way, all the impacted lists are not eligible to archive (desactived)
:-(

isn't there any trouble in my situation ?
or i must certainly have missed something
;-)

sincerelly yours

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jul  7 16:34:19 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 07:34:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] many shunted messages
In-Reply-To: <425795095.7197751278428557303.JavaMail.root@zimbra20-e3.priv.proxad.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201007070734190031ca4d06b2@msapiro>

geraud.guibert at free.fr wrote:
>
>got many shunted messages in the mailman qfiles with
>most of them that indicate 
>'listname': 'list1' OR 'list2' ... 'listN',
>'tolist': 1,
>'whichq' /.../qfiles/archive
>
>as far as i understand it, doesn't this means that the 
>corresponding mails are in error due to archiving process/mailqueue ?!


Yes, the whichq value says the messages were shunted during processing
by ArchRunner.


>on the other way, all the impacted lists are not eligible to archive (desactived)
>:-(


Strange because if the list's 'archive' setting is No, the ToArchive
handler in the incoming pipeline will not queue the message in the
archive queue in the first place.


>isn't there any trouble in my situation ?
>or i must certainly have missed something
>;-)


What is in Mailman's error log corresponding to the times these
messages were shunted?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mary.y.wang at boeing.com  Wed Jul  7 18:54:13 2010
From: mary.y.wang at boeing.com (Wang, Mary Y)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 09:54:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allow anyone to post to a mailing list
Message-ID: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC0458B16288@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>

Hi,

I'd like to have it setup so that anyone can post to my mailing list (he/she does not need to be subscriber).  How do I do that?

Thanks
Mary






From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Wed Jul  7 20:24:09 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 21:24:09 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allow anyone to post to a mailing list
In-Reply-To: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC0458B16288@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>
References: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC0458B16288@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1007072120140.4580@data.home>

On Wed, 7 Jul 2010, Wang, Mary Y wrote:

> I'd like to have it setup so that anyone can post to my mailing list 
> (he/she does not need to be subscriber).  How do I do that?

The first thing you need to do is set the default non-member action to 
accept.  (see Privacty Settings/Sender Filters)

If you truly want to let everything through, you will also want to set the 
maximum message size (in General options) to 0 (i.e. unlimited), and not 
require the list name to be in the To or Cc field of the message (see 
privacty/recipient filters).   you may also want to set the max number of 
recipients to something high.

These are the sorts of things I did when I set up an a mailing list to act 
like an Email address for general enquiries.

Geoff.


From lists at viplist.us  Wed Jul  7 20:57:38 2010
From: lists at viplist.us (Lists)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 11:57:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to change the template files
Message-ID: <2FBE166D1B3A43249AAD66030E7CF2FB@Server1>

So instead of the ones being text to make them html?  I have a client 
asking and I cannot find a way to do that.  Ideas?

Example, the verify.txt, subscribeack.txt,  etc. into verify.html and 
subscribeack.html.  They are processed them as and that is not what I 
want.

From adamparkerod at gmail.com  Wed Jul  7 21:23:31 2010
From: adamparkerod at gmail.com (Adam Parker, OD)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:23:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admin address have to be a member?
Message-ID: <AANLkTimLaB_MvKu3h7gfIGWeipO4UBR7DmhJJiviea4Z@mail.gmail.com>

does the admin address have to be a member?  will the emails get moderated
if it's not in the membership list?

-- 
Adam

From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Wed Jul  7 21:37:41 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 22:37:41 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admin address have to be a member?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimLaB_MvKu3h7gfIGWeipO4UBR7DmhJJiviea4Z@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimLaB_MvKu3h7gfIGWeipO4UBR7DmhJJiviea4Z@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1007072234420.4580@data.home>

On Wed, 7 Jul 2010, Adam Parker, OD wrote:

> does the admin address have to be a member?

No.

> will the emails get moderated if it's not in the membership list?

If you mean "Will a list admin be moderated when posting to the list if 
they are not a member of that list", then this will depend on how 
non-member postings are configured.   A person who is not a member of the 
list is treated as a non-member, regardless of whether or not they are a 
list owner or moderator.

You can set the list to allow posts from list administrators without them 
being members by adding them to the list of addresses whose messages will 
be automatically accepted.  See Privacy/Sender Filters.

Geoff.


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jul  8 00:08:42 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:08:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to change the template files
In-Reply-To: <2FBE166D1B3A43249AAD66030E7CF2FB@Server1>
Message-ID: <PC19520100707150842057860f6a6ac@msapiro>

Lists wrote:

>So instead of the ones being text to make them html?  I have a client 
>asking and I cannot find a way to do that.  Ideas?
>
>Example, the verify.txt, subscribeack.txt,  etc. into verify.html and 
>subscribeack.html.  They are processed them as and that is not what I 
>want.


You would need to modify the source code to do this.

Without modifying code, if you create a list or domain or even a site
modified template per the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9> and
name it verify.html or subscribeack.html, it will simply not be found
and the default template will be used.

If you create an edited list or domain or site template named
verify.txt or subscribeack.txt and containing HTML, it will still be
sent in a plain text email message so will appear as the raw HTML, not
rendered.

You would need to modify the code that uses the template to create a
message with MIME Content-Type: text/html, as well as creating the
HTML template.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lists at viplist.us  Thu Jul  8 11:06:44 2010
From: lists at viplist.us (lists at viplist.us)
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 02:06:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to change the template files
Message-ID: <20100708.090644.125.1@SERVER1>

It looks like each file that calls a txt file would have to be changed, or 
is there somewhere that I can globally change the

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 

to iso-8859-1?  I know I would then have to change all text files that are 
emailed (after figuring out which ones are emailed and which ones are 
simply includes.)

I tried changing the selection in Defaults.py  for English to iso-8859-1, 
but that did not do it.

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
To: "Lists" <lists at viplist.us>, <mailman-users at python.org>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:08:42 -0700
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to change the template files

> Lists wrote:
> 
> >So instead of the ones being text to make them html?  I have a client 
> >asking and I cannot find a way to do that.  Ideas?
> >
> >Example, the verify.txt, subscribeack.txt,  etc. into verify.html and 
> >subscribeack.html.  They are processed them as and that is not what I 
> >want.
> 
> 
> You would need to modify the source code to do this.
> 
> Without modifying code, if you create a list or domain or even a site
> modified template per the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9> and
> name it verify.html or subscribeack.html, it will simply not be found
> and the default template will be used.
> 
> If you create an edited list or domain or site template named
> verify.txt or subscribeack.txt and containing HTML, it will still be
> sent in a plain text email message so will appear as the raw HTML, not
> rendered.
> 
> You would need to modify the code that uses the template to create a
> message with MIME Content-Type: text/html, as well as creating the
> HTML template.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 

From ifetch at du.edu  Thu Jul  8 12:33:44 2010
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 04:33:44 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Storing list admin password in LDAP, or unencrypted?
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1007080421100.73256@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

Hello,

    We would like to integrate Mailman with a spam quarantine system. List 
admin(s) will need to login to manage quarantined messages, and we would 
like this login to use the list admin password. I'd like some feedback on 
the best way to accomplish this, with Mailman.


    I can think of two ways to accomplish this -

    1. Mailman consults LDAP for the list admin password, and is able to 
also set that password (for the web UI and the change_pw script). Mailing 
lists are already defined in LDAP for our MTAs.

    2. The Mailman list admin passwords are stored in an unencrypted form, 
which we regularly sync to LDAP, for the quarantine system to use.


    IT seems like option 2 would be simpler in terms of code, although less 
ideal (because the password wouldn't be encrypted).


    Which method (or is there a third way?) is going to make the most sense 
for seamless integration with Mailman?


Thanks,

Ivan.

From francwalter at gmx.de  Thu Jul  8 00:21:36 2010
From: francwalter at gmx.de (franc walter)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 00:21:36 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual
	mailbox table
Message-ID: <16db7iu73t50r.dlg@news.7fw.de>

Hello,

having a virtual server with ubuntu 8.04 i installed with aptitude mailman
(2.1.9-9u) with postfix, following:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Mailman

As admin, i can sign in new mailinglist-users, but if i mail to:

Mailman-request at example.org (where example.org is my domain)

i get a bounce-mail:

Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual mailbox table

Same thing if i mail to mailman at example.org.
Sure, i didn't create in my domain in postfix a user "mailman-request" or
"mailman", because i thought this is what my installation and configuration
in postfix checks out.

What is wrong?
Does anybody could give me a hint?

Thank you,

: franc

From joonho at a9.com  Wed Jul  7 22:16:06 2010
From: joonho at a9.com (Syn, Joonho)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 13:16:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newlist command does not have the -o option
Message-ID: <3837F094-6981-459C-A56E-7957DA4FAF2F@a9.com>

I'm running version 2.1.9 installed via rpm on rhel5 and noticed that my newlist command does not have the -o or --ouput=[filename] option.  I've seen this command used many times by people on the mailing list.  Anyone know where it went and how I can get a newlist script with the -o option?

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jul  8 17:16:50 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 08:16:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newlist command does not have the -o option
In-Reply-To: <3837F094-6981-459C-A56E-7957DA4FAF2F@a9.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201007080816500312bfac452a@msapiro>

Syn, Joonho wrote:

>I'm running version 2.1.9 installed via rpm on rhel5 and noticed that my newlist command does not have the -o or --ouput=[filename] option.  I've seen this command used many times by people on the mailing list.  Anyone know where it went and how I can get a newlist script with the -o option?


newlist has never had a -o/--outputfile option. Perhaps you are
thinking of config_list.

If you are trying to capture aliases printed by newlist, just redirect
the output with "> filename".

If you are trying to suppress the "Hit enter to notify LIST owner..."
prompt, use the -q/--quiet option.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jul  8 17:37:45 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 08:37:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
	virtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <16db7iu73t50r.dlg@news.7fw.de>
Message-ID: <PC195201007080837450718dd03c6bb@msapiro>

franc walter <francwalter at gmx.de> wrote:
>
>having a virtual server with ubuntu 8.04 i installed with aptitude mailman
>(2.1.9-9u) with postfix, following:
>
>https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Mailman
>
>As admin, i can sign in new mailinglist-users, but if i mail to:
>
>Mailman-request at example.org (where example.org is my domain)
>
>i get a bounce-mail:
>
>Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual mailbox table
>
>Same thing if i mail to mailman at example.org.
>Sure, i didn't create in my domain in postfix a user "mailman-request" or
>"mailman", because i thought this is what my installation and configuration
>in postfix checks out.
>
>What is wrong?
>Does anybody could give me a hint?


You don't create users or mailboxes for Mailman's list addresses. This
is handled by alias_maps, virtual_alias_domains, and
virtual_alias_maps in Postfix, or, since this is Debian/Ubuntu,
possibly by postfix_to_mailman.py.

If you are following the Postfix section of
<https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Mailman>, you have left something
out, possibly you didn't add

lists.example.com      mailman:

to the Postfix transport table, or possibly you are not mailing to the
lists.example.com domain.

See the installation Manual at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html> and/or the
Debian/Ubuntu specic documentation.

You may also find the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/ZoCj> relevant.

In order for this list to be of more help, we need more information
including

the contents of mm_cfg.py
the output of postconf -n

and possibly additional Postfix information such as the contents of or
at least anything to do with Mailman from master.cf and the Postfix
transport table.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jul  8 18:05:09 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:05:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to change the template files
In-Reply-To: <20100708.090644.125.1@SERVER1>
Message-ID: <PC195201007080905090500bfac45bd@msapiro>

lists at viplist.us wrote:

>It looks like each file that calls a txt file would have to be changed, or 
>is there somewhere that I can globally change the
>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 
>
>to iso-8859-1?  I know I would then have to change all text files that are 
>emailed (after figuring out which ones are emailed and which ones are 
>simply includes.)


Why would you need to change any templates? the 'en' ones are all
us-ascii which is a proper subset of iso-8859-1.


>I tried changing the selection in Defaults.py  for English to iso-8859-1, 
>but that did not do it.


It seems you've changed the question from "how do I put HTML into .txt
templates" to "how do I change the character set of Mailman generated
list mail".

>From this, I gather that the real issue you are trying to address is
inclusion of non-ascii characters in templates.

If that is the case, changing the character set for 'en' from us-ascii
to iso-8859-1 or utf-8 should work provided the non-ascii characters
in the templates are encoded in the same (iso-8859-1 or utf-8)
encoding.

It is best not to change this in Defaults.py, but rather override it in
mm_cfg.py (see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/fIA9>) with a line

add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'iso-8859-1', 'ltr')

(and the omission of the i18n _() around 'English (USA)' is
intentional).

As to why this didn't seem to work when you changed Defaults.py, did
you restart Mailman after the change?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mary.y.wang at boeing.com  Thu Jul  8 18:58:27 2010
From: mary.y.wang at boeing.com (Wang, Mary Y)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:58:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allow anyone to post to a mailing list
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1007072120140.4580@data.home>
References: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC0458B16288@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007072120140.4580@data.home>
Message-ID: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC0458B165DD@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>

Thanks for the info.  I did what you recommended.
Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is defined.
(Details for generic_nonmember_action)  - I Set to 'Accept'
and 
should messages from non-members, which are automatically discarded, be forwarded to the list moderator?
(Edit forward_auto_discards) - I set to 'No'

But still received this error:

"Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Message has implicit destination"

Am I missing something here?  

Thanks
Mary



-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Shang [mailto:geoff at QuiteLikely.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 11:24 AM
To: Wang, Mary Y
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Allow anyone to post to a mailing list

On Wed, 7 Jul 2010, Wang, Mary Y wrote:

> I'd like to have it setup so that anyone can post to my mailing list 
> (he/she does not need to be subscriber).  How do I do that?

The first thing you need to do is set the default non-member action to accept.  (see Privacty Settings/Sender Filters)

If you truly want to let everything through, you will also want to set the maximum message size (in General options) to 0 (i.e. unlimited), and not require the list name to be in the To or Cc field of the message (see 
privacty/recipient filters).   you may also want to set the max number of 
recipients to something high.

These are the sorts of things I did when I set up an a mailing list to act like an Email address for general enquiries.

Geoff.


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Thu Jul  8 19:13:24 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 20:13:24 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allow anyone to post to a mailing list
In-Reply-To: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC0458B165DD@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>
References: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC0458B16288@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007072120140.4580@data.home>
	<FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC0458B165DD@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1007082010500.4580@data.home>

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Wang, Mary Y wrote:

> The reason it is being held:
>
>    Message has implicit destination"
>
> Am I missing something here?

This is being caused by the item I mentioned in recipient filters which 
tells Mailman to reject messages that don't include the list address in 
the To or Cc field.  The option is called require_explicit_destination and 
should be set to No.

Geoff.


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Thu Jul  8 19:18:25 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 20:18:25 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
 virtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <PC195201007080837450718dd03c6bb@msapiro>
References: <PC195201007080837450718dd03c6bb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1007082016320.4580@data.home>

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> You don't create users or mailboxes for Mailman's list addresses. This
> is handled by alias_maps, virtual_alias_domains, and
> virtual_alias_maps in Postfix, or, since this is Debian/Ubuntu,
> possibly by postfix_to_mailman.py.

Having set up Mailman on 3 separate systems, 2 Debian and 1 Ubuntu, I can 
personally recommend not using postfix2mailman.  I understand it's not 
recommended, and there really seems to be no reason to use it.  The alias 
maps way seems a lot easier to understand in my opinion.  I just followed 
the installation manual and did just fine.

Geoff.


From francwalter at gmx.de  Thu Jul  8 19:22:15 2010
From: francwalter at gmx.de (franc walter)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 19:22:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
	virtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <PC195201007080837450718dd03c6bb@msapiro>
References: <PC195201007080837450718dd03c6bb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1kw1zpu0qn421$.dlg@news.7fw.de>

Am Thu, 8 Jul 2010 08:37:45 -0700 schriebst du:

> You don't create users or mailboxes for Mailman's list addresses. This
> is handled by alias_maps, virtual_alias_domains, and
> virtual_alias_maps in Postfix, or, since this is Debian/Ubuntu,
> possibly by postfix_to_mailman.py.

> If you are following the Postfix section of
> <https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Mailman>, you have left something
> out, possibly you didn't add

> lists.example.com      mailman:

> to the Postfix transport table, or possibly you are not mailing to the
> lists.example.com domain.


I have exatcly this in the file /etc/postfix/transport and i have the
db-file transport.db nearby.

But i don't send to mailman at lists.example.com but to mailman at example.com,
like described in the mailman-welcome-mail.
Is this wrong?



> In order for this list to be of more help, we need more information
> including

> the contents of mm_cfg.py



My mm_cfg.py:


# -*- python -*-




"""This is the module which takes your site-specific settings.

>From a raw distribution it should be copied to mm_cfg.py.  If you
already have an mm_cfg.py, be careful to add in only the new settings
you want.  The complete set of distributed defaults, with annotation,
are in ./Defaults.  In mm_cfg, override only those you want to
change, after the

  from Defaults import *

line (see below).

Note that these are just default settings - many can be overridden via the
admin and user interfaces on a per-list or per-user basis.

Note also that some of the settings are resolved against the active list
setting by using the value as a format string against the
list-instance-object's dictionary - see the distributed value of
DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER for an example."""


#######################################################
#    Here's where we get the distributed defaults.    #

from Defaults import *

##############################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific configuration below, in mm_cfg.py . #
# See Defaults.py for explanations of the values.            #

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# The name of the list Mailman uses to send password reminders
# and similar. Don't change if you want mailman-owner to be
# a valid local part.
MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# If you change these, you have to configure your http server
# accordingly (Alias and ScriptAlias directives in most httpds)
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'
PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/cgi-bin/mailman/private'
IMAGE_LOGOS         = '/images/mailman/'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default domain for email addresses of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'example.org'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default host for web interface of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'example.org'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Required when setting any of its arguments.
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# The default language for this server.
DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Iirc this was used in pre 2.1, leave it for now
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER    = 0              # Still used?

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Unset send_reminders on newly created lists
DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment this if you configured your MTA such that it
# automatically recognizes newly created lists.
# (see /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Exim4.Debian)
# MTA=None   # Misnomer, suppresses alias output on newlist

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains, but be sure to
# see /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Debian first.

# fcw: 2010-07-06 Postfix
MTA='Postfix'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment if you want to filter mail with SpamAssassin. For
# more information please visit this website:
# http://www.jamesh.id.au/articles/mailman-spamassassin/
# GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')

# Note - if you're looking for something that is imported from mm_cfg, but
you
# didn't find it above, it's probably in
/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py.

DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'de'




> the output of postconf -n



root at example:~# postconf -n
alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
append_dot_mydomain = no
biff = no
broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
config_directory = /etc/postfix
content_filter = smtp-amavis:[127.0.0.1]:10024
mailbox_command = procmail -a "$EXTENSION"
mailbox_size_limit = 0
mydestination = mail.example.org, www.example.org, lists.example.org,
localhost.example.org, localhost
mynetworks =
myorigin = /etc/mailname
readme_directory = no
receive_override_options = no_address_mappings
recipient_delimiter = +
smtp_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtp_scache
smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name (Ubuntu)
smtpd_hard_error_limit = 10
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks permit_sasl_authenticated
reject_unauth_destination reject_unauth_pipelining check_recipient_access
hash:/etc/postfix/roleaccount_exceptions check_client_access
hash:/etc/postfix/rbl_client_exceptions check_policy_service
inet:127.0.0.1:60000
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
smtpd_sasl_path = private/auth
smtpd_sasl_type = dovecot
smtpd_soft_error_limit = 8
smtpd_tls_auth_only = yes
smtpd_tls_cert_file = /etc/apache2/ssl/servercert.pem
smtpd_tls_key_file = /etc/apache2/ssl/serverkey.pem
smtpd_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtpd_scache
smtpd_use_tls = yes
virtual_alias_maps =
mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-alias-maps.cf,mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-email2email.cf
virtual_gid_maps = static:5000
virtual_mailbox_domains =
mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-mailbox-domains.cf
virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-mailbox-maps.cf
virtual_transport = dovecot
virtual_uid_maps = static:5000





> and possibly additional Postfix information such as the contents of or
> at least anything to do with Mailman from master.cf


My Postfix - master.cf:


#
# Postfix master process configuration file.  For details on the format
# of the file, see the master(5) manual page (command: "man 5 master").
#
# Do not forget to execute "postfix reload" after editing this file.
#
# ==========================================================================
# service type  private unpriv  chroot  wakeup  maxproc command + args
#               (yes)   (yes)   (yes)   (never) (100)
# ==========================================================================
smtp      inet  n       -       -       -       -       smtpd
#submission inet n       -       -       -       -       smtpd
#  -o smtpd_tls_security_level=encrypt
#  -o smtpd_sasl_auth_enable=yes
#  -o smtpd_client_restrictions=permit_sasl_authenticated,reject
#  -o milter_macro_daemon_name=ORIGINATING

smtps     inet  n       -       -       -       -       smtpd
  -o smtpd_tls_wrappermode=yes
  -o smtpd_sasl_auth_enable=yes
  -o smtpd_client_restrictions=permit_sasl_authenticated,reject
  -o milter_macro_daemon_name=ORIGINATING
#628      inet  n       -       -       -       -       qmqpd

pickup    fifo  n       -       -       60      1       pickup
 -o content_filter=
 -o receive_override_options=no_header_body_checks
cleanup   unix  n       -       -       -       0       cleanup
qmgr      fifo  n       -       n       300     1       qmgr
#qmgr     fifo  n       -       -       300     1       oqmgr
tlsmgr    unix  -       -       -       1000?   1       tlsmgr
rewrite   unix  -       -       -       -       -       trivial-rewrite
bounce    unix  -       -       -       -       0       bounce
defer     unix  -       -       -       -       0       bounce
trace     unix  -       -       -       -       0       bounce
verify    unix  -       -       -       -       1       verify
flush     unix  n       -       -       1000?   0       flush
proxymap  unix  -       -       n       -       -       proxymap
proxywrite unix -       -       n       -       1       proxymap
smtp      unix  -       -       -       -       -       smtp
# When relaying mail as backup MX, disable fallback_relay to avoid MX loops
relay     unix  -       -       -       -       -       smtp
	-o smtp_fallback_relay=
#       -o smtp_helo_timeout=5 -o smtp_connect_timeout=5
showq     unix  n       -       -       -       -       showq
error     unix  -       -       -       -       -       error
retry     unix  -       -       -       -       -       error
discard   unix  -       -       -       -       -       discard
local     unix  -       n       n       -       -       local
virtual   unix  -       n       n       -       -       virtual
lmtp      unix  -       -       -       -       -       lmtp
anvil     unix  -       -       -       -       1       anvil
scache    unix  -       -       -       -       1       scache
#
# ====================================================================
# Interfaces to non-Postfix software. Be sure to examine the manual
# pages of the non-Postfix software to find out what options it wants.
#
# Many of the following services use the Postfix pipe(8) delivery
# agent.  See the pipe(8) man page for information about ${recipient}
# and other message envelope options.
# ====================================================================
#
# maildrop. See the Postfix MAILDROP_README file for details.
# Also specify in main.cf: maildrop_destination_recipient_limit=1
#
maildrop  unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
  flags=DRhu user=vmail argv=/usr/bin/maildrop -d ${recipient}
#
# See the Postfix UUCP_README file for configuration details.
#
uucp      unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
  flags=Fqhu user=uucp argv=uux -r -n -z -a$sender - $nexthop!rmail
($recipient)
#
# Other external delivery methods.
#
ifmail    unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
  flags=F user=ftn argv=/usr/lib/ifmail/ifmail -r $nexthop ($recipient)
bsmtp     unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
  flags=Fq. user=bsmtp argv=/usr/lib/bsmtp/bsmtp -t$nexthop -f$sender
$recipient
scalemail-backend unix	-	n	n	-	2	pipe
  flags=R user=scalemail argv=/usr/lib/scalemail/bin/scalemail-store
${nexthop} ${user} ${extension}
mailman   unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
  flags=FR user=list argv=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py
  ${nexthop} ${user}
dovecot   unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
  flags=DRhu user=vmail:vmail argv=/usr/lib/dovecot/deliver -d ${recipient}

smtp-amavis unix -      -       -     -       2  smtp
    -o smtp_data_done_timeout=1200
    -o smtp_send_xforward_command=yes
    -o disable_dns_lookups=yes
    -o max_use=20

127.0.0.1:10025 inet n  -       -     -       -  smtpd
   -o content_filter=
   -o local_recipient_maps=
   -o relay_recipient_maps=
   -o smtpd_restriction_classes=
   -o smtpd_delay_reject=no
   -o smtpd_client_restrictions=permit_mynetworks,reject
   -o smtpd_helo_restrictions=
   -o smtpd_sender_restrictions=
   -o smtpd_recipient_restrictions=permit_mynetworks,reject
   -o smtpd_data_restrictions=reject_unauth_pipelining
   -o smtpd_end_of_data_restrictions=
   -o mynetworks=127.0.0.0/8
   -o smtpd_error_sleep_time=0
   -o smtpd_soft_error_limit=1001
   -o smtpd_hard_error_limit=1000
   -o smtpd_client_connection_count_limit=0
   -o smtpd_client_connection_rate_limit=0
   -o
receive_override_options=no_header_body_checks,no_unknown_recipient_checks
#   -o local_header_rewrite_clients=




Thank you very much for reply!

: franc walter

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jul  8 19:29:29 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 10:29:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Storing list admin password in LDAP,
	or unencrypted?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1007080421100.73256@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
Message-ID: <PC195201007081029290968dee378e5@msapiro>

Ivan Fetch wrote:
>
>    We would like to integrate Mailman with a spam quarantine system. List 
>admin(s) will need to login to manage quarantined messages, and we would 
>like this login to use the list admin password. I'd like some feedback on 
>the best way to accomplish this, with Mailman.
>
>
>    I can think of two ways to accomplish this -
>
>    1. Mailman consults LDAP for the list admin password, and is able to 
>also set that password (for the web UI and the change_pw script). Mailing 
>lists are already defined in LDAP for our MTAs.
>
>    2. The Mailman list admin passwords are stored in an unencrypted form, 
>which we regularly sync to LDAP, for the quarantine system to use.
>
>
>    IT seems like option 2 would be simpler in terms of code, although less 
>ideal (because the password wouldn't be encrypted).
>
>
>    Which method (or is there a third way?) is going to make the most sense 
>for seamless integration with Mailman?


I suggest a third method.

Do not change Mailman at all.

Periodically, via cron and/or on demand, retrieve the list's 'password'
attribute from lists/listname/config.pck. This can be done with a
Python program using the Mailman API to instantiate the list and get
the password, or it could be done with a withlist script whose process
was simply

def get_list_pw(mlist):
    print mlist.password

or it could be done, e.g., by

/path/to/bin/dumpdb /path/to/lists/$listname/config.pck | \
   grep \'password\' | sed -e s'/^.*: .//' -e 's/.,$//'

This is the encrypted password. Store that in LDAP and have your
quarantine system validate a password by encrypting it using Mailman's
algorithm (a 40-hex-digit representation of a SHA1 hash of the
plaintext) and comparing that to the list's encrypted password.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From francwalter at gmx.de  Thu Jul  8 19:45:36 2010
From: francwalter at gmx.de (franc walter)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 19:45:36 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
	virtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1007082016320.4580@data.home>
References: <PC195201007080837450718dd03c6bb@msapiro>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007082016320.4580@data.home>
Message-ID: <1i86bdol95oxd.dlg@news.7fw.de>

Am Thu, 8 Jul 2010 20:18:25 +0300 (IDT) schriebst du:

>  I can
> personally recommend not using postfix2mailman.  I understand it's not
> recommended, and there really seems to be no reason to use it.  The alias
> maps way seems a lot easier to understand in my opinion.  I just followed
> the installation manual and did just fine.

I am very confused now. Could you indicate me the doc where you followed the
installation?

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jul  8 19:50:13 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 10:50:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown
	invirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <1kw1zpu0qn421$.dlg@news.7fw.de>
Message-ID: <PC1952010070810501303753827ce04@msapiro>

franc walter wrote:
>
>But i don't send to mailman at lists.example.com but to mailman at example.com,
>like described in the mailman-welcome-mail.
>Is this wrong?
[...]
>
>#-------------------------------------------------------------
># Default domain for email addresses of newly created MLs
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'example.org'


If you want to use postfix-to-mailman.py as you have set it up, the
above needs to be

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.example.com'

(the exact domain in your

lists.example.com      mailman:

entry in /etc/postfix/transport)

If you change that and then run

/path/to/mailman/bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url

The address in the welcome message will be mailman at lists.example.com.

If this is not the domain you want for email, I suggest you forget
postfix-to-mailman.py and set up Mailman/Postfix integration as
discussed at <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html>


[..]
>#-------------------------------------------------------------
># Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains, but be sure to
># see /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Debian first.
>
># fcw: 2010-07-06 Postfix
>MTA='Postfix'


This is irrelevant if you are using postfix-to-mailman.py


[...]


I think your postconf -n and master.cf are OK for postfix-to-mailman.py
as long as you mail to lists @lists.example.com (and change
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and run fix_url so your lists know this).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jul  8 20:01:13 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:01:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown
	invirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <1i86bdol95oxd.dlg@news.7fw.de>
Message-ID: <PC195201007081101130218d6e9e6a7@msapiro>

franc walter wrote:
>
>I am very confused now. Could you indicate me the doc where you followed the
>installation?


I think all you need should be at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html> and the first
subsection 6.1.1.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Thu Jul  8 20:06:09 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 21:06:09 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
 virtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <1i86bdol95oxd.dlg@news.7fw.de>
References: <PC195201007080837450718dd03c6bb@msapiro>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007082016320.4580@data.home>
	<1i86bdol95oxd.dlg@news.7fw.de>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1007082055330.4580@data.home>

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, franc walter wrote:

> I am very confused now. Could you indicate me the doc where you followed the
> installation?

The installation guide can be found at http://list.org/site.html

The specific sections on Postfix can be found at 
http://list.org/mailman-install/node12.html

However I recommend reading through the whole thing because it's very easy 
to skip out important things in a package-based system like Debian/Ubuntu 
where things are done for you.

A couple of things to note:

1.  The Mailman user under Debian/Ubuntu is list.

2.  The alias and virtual-mailman files will be in /var/lib/mailman/data

IMHO, the section concerning virtual domains is more confusing than it 
needs to be, so feel free to ask if you get confused.

Geoff.


> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/geoff%40quitelikely.com
>

From francwalter at gmx.de  Thu Jul  8 20:06:56 2010
From: francwalter at gmx.de (franc walter)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 20:06:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown
	invirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <PC195201007081101130218d6e9e6a7@msapiro>
References: <PC195201007081101130218d6e9e6a7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <16p7qj5z2rk9u$.dlg@news.7fw.de>

Am Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:01:13 -0700 schriebst du:

> I think all you need should be at
> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html> and the first
> subsection 6.1.1.


OK, i think i won't use this postfix2mailman and do it like you propose.

I will tell later if it works, thank you very much till yet!!!

yours, franc

From mary.y.wang at boeing.com  Thu Jul  8 21:00:10 2010
From: mary.y.wang at boeing.com (Wang, Mary Y)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 12:00:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allow anyone to post to a mailing list
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1007082010500.4580@data.home>
References: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC0458B16288@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.bo
	eing.com> <alpine.DEB.1.10.1007072120140.4580@data.home>
	<FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC0458B165DD@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007082010500.4580@data.home>
Message-ID: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC0458B16691@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>

Thanks Geoff.
That worked.

Mary 



-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Shang [mailto:geoff at QuiteLikely.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 10:13 AM
To: Wang, Mary Y
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Allow anyone to post to a mailing list

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Wang, Mary Y wrote:

> The reason it is being held:
>
>    Message has implicit destination"
>
> Am I missing something here?

This is being caused by the item I mentioned in recipient filters which tells Mailman to reject messages that don't include the list address in the To or Cc field.  The option is called require_explicit_destination and should be set to No.

Geoff.


From dan at danshow.com  Thu Jul  8 18:31:44 2010
From: dan at danshow.com (Dan Sherbondy)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:31:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 25,000 unsubscribes in one hour
Message-ID: <01b101cb1ebb$0dce4290$020aa8c0@PC01>

Over a month ago I used mailman for a 100,000 mailing.
 
Yesterday, in a 4 hour span, I received 25,000 unsubscribe notifications
such as "lupetherealtor at yahoo.com has been removed from TopCARealtors"

I normally received 100 unsubscribes per mailing so I think something is
wrong and dont want to remove these people from my list unless they
really unsubscribed.

Is the unsubscribe notice used for bad addresses as well as
unsubscribes?

Any other thoughts?

 

Thanks,

Dan


From van_178 at yahoo.co.in  Thu Jul  8 18:52:54 2010
From: van_178 at yahoo.co.in (Varoun P)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 22:22:54 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom mailman webpages
Message-ID: <297280.69223.qm@web94706.mail.in2.yahoo.com>

Greetings,
I'm customizing all user facing webpages on a new mailman site. I've copied over templates (listinfo.html, subscribe.html, options.html...) from $prefix/templates/en/ to $prefix/lists/<list-name>/en/ and have edited them to get the required effect. The one page thats giving me trouble is the "Confirm subscription request" page that users visit to confirm their subscription once they receive the verify email. Searching the archives leads me to believe that the way to customize this page is to edit $prefix/Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py directly. Is there another way to customize this page, I would prefer not to edit this file directly if possible.
thanks in advance,
-- varoun



From eli at barzilay.org  Thu Jul  8 21:42:26 2010
From: eli at barzilay.org (Eli Barzilay)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 15:42:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Custom mailman webpages
In-Reply-To: <297280.69223.qm@web94706.mail.in2.yahoo.com>
References: <297280.69223.qm@web94706.mail.in2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <19510.10786.125328.544600@winooski.ccs.neu.edu>

On Jul  8, Varoun P wrote:
> Greetings,
> I'm customizing all user facing webpages on a new mailman site. I've
> copied over templates (listinfo.html, subscribe.html,
> options.html...) from $prefix/templates/en/ to
> $prefix/lists/<list-name>/en/ and have edited them to get the
> required effect. The one page thats giving me trouble is the
> "Confirm subscription request" page that users visit to confirm
> their subscription once they receive the verify email. Searching the
> archives leads me to believe that the way to customize this page is
> to edit $prefix/Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py directly. Is there another
> way to customize this page, I would prefer not to edit this file
> directly if possible.

I knew this sounded familiar -- I recently ran into exactly the same
thing, and below is Mark's reply -- which is possibly the one you've
seen.  (FWIW, I just gave up on those pages...)


Mark Sapiro wrote:

| Eli Barzilay wrote:
| 
| >I was looking at the "Confirm subscription request" and "Subscription
| >request confirmed" pages -- there's no way to customize them too,
| >right?  Is there at least some way to have my own header used?
| >(Without that, having a very customized look means that these pages
| >stick like a sore thumb...)
| 
| 
| Those pages are built dynamically by Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py. No
| templates are involved.
| 
| See the Format() method in the Document class in Mailman/htmlformat.py.
| It should be clear how to modify that to add css and/or a heading to
| all generated pages.


-- 
          ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x)))          Eli Barzilay:
                    http://barzilay.org/                   Maze is Life!

From dan at danshow.com  Thu Jul  8 21:43:59 2010
From: dan at danshow.com (Dan Sherbondy)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 12:43:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 25,000 unsubscribes in 4 hrs
Message-ID: <025201cb1ed5$e98e1020$020aa8c0@PC01>

Over a month ago I used mailman for a 100,000 mailing.
 
Yesterday, in a 4 hour span, I received 25,000 unsubscribe notifications
such as "lupetherealtor at yahoo.com has been removed from TopCARealtors"

I normally received 100 unsubscribes per mailing so I think something is
wrong and dont want to remove these people from my list unless they
really unsubscribed.

Is the unsubscribe notice used for bad addresses as well as
unsubscribes?

Any other thoughts?

 

Thanks,

Dan at danshow.com


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Thu Jul  8 22:03:31 2010
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 22:03:31 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 25,000 unsubscribes in 4 hrs
In-Reply-To: <025201cb1ed5$e98e1020$020aa8c0@PC01>
References: <025201cb1ed5$e98e1020$020aa8c0@PC01>
Message-ID: <20100708200331.GC2967@charite.de>

* Dan Sherbondy <dan at danshow.com>:
> Over a month ago I used mailman for a 100,000 mailing.
>  
> Yesterday, in a 4 hour span, I received 25,000 unsubscribe notifications
> such as "lupetherealtor at yahoo.com has been removed from TopCARealtors"

So 1/4 of the addresses was bad.

> I normally received 100 unsubscribes per mailing so I think something is
> wrong and dont want to remove these people from my list unless they
> really unsubscribed.
> 
> Is the unsubscribe notice used for bad addresses as well as
> unsubscribes?

Yes. So I guess what you're seeing is just the bad addresses.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From jferrai at us.ibm.com  Thu Jul  8 20:22:11 2010
From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 12:22:11 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AUTO: Jon Ferraiolo is on vacation on Thursday July
	8 (returning 07/09/2010)
Message-ID: <OF14E89D4E.E0F6DAB9-ON8725775A.0064E86E-8725775A.0064E86E@us.ibm.com>



I am out of the office until 07/09/2010.




Note: This is an automated response to your message  "Mailman-Users Digest,
Vol 77, Issue 11" sent on 7/8/10 10:58:43.

This is the only notification you will receive while this person is away.

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Jul  8 23:20:46 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 14:20:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 25,000 unsubscribes in one hour
In-Reply-To: <01b101cb1ebb$0dce4290$020aa8c0@PC01>
Message-ID: <PC195201007081420460734bfac46cc@msapiro>

Dan Sherbondy wrote:

>Over a month ago I used mailman for a 100,000 mailing.
> 
>Yesterday, in a 4 hour span, I received 25,000 unsubscribe notifications
>such as "lupetherealtor at yahoo.com has been removed from TopCARealtors"
>
>I normally received 100 unsubscribes per mailing so I think something is
>wrong and dont want to remove these people from my list unless they
>really unsubscribed.
>
>Is the unsubscribe notice used for bad addresses as well as
>unsubscribes?


Yes. When a member is unsubscribed by automated bounce processind, the
same message is sent to the list owner if
bounce_notify_owner_on_removal is Yes.

Also, if bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is Yes, there will be a notice
to the list owner containing the  triggering bounce at the time the
member's delivery is disabled which may or may bot be the same as the
time the member is removed depending on the setting of
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings.
	
So these may have been legitimate bounce unsubscribes or they may have
been bounce unsubscribes due to some abnormal mail delivery failure or
they may be something else.

It's hard to say anything more without seeing the list's Bounce
processing settings, Mailman's bounce log and perhaps MTA logs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From francwalter at gmx.de  Fri Jul  9 12:26:55 2010
From: francwalter at gmx.de (franc walter)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 12:26:55 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown
	invirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010070817193308282db0309d@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010070817193308282db0309d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <wmtetiny88l7.dlg@news.7fw.de>

Am Thu, 8 Jul 2010 17:19:33 -0700 schriebst du:

> I'm not sure what you are saying.

I just noticed that the path is different. It is the packager, like you
said.


> I.e in the case of the Debian/Ubuntu package,

>  --prefix=/usr/lib/mailman
>  --with-var-prefix=/var/lib/mailman

OK, i guess i just have to be careful to doublecheck the right paths.

Next difference to Ubuntu is the username, i read in:
http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-integration.html

"Make sure that the owner of the data/aliases and data/aliases.db file is
mailman, that the group owner for those files is mailman, or whatever user
and group you used in the configure command, and that both files are group
writable:

        % su
        % chown mailman:mailman data/aliases*
        % chmod g+w data/aliases*
"

Ubuntu uses "list" and not "mailman". I hope this is not a problem.


I thought if the packager (Ubuntu in my case) make such a package available,
i just have to install it and all is well, but it is not like this.
I have spent many hours till yet to make this work and still it is not
running.
Now i struggle with the virtual domains:

http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html

From francwalter at gmx.de  Fri Jul  9 12:43:35 2010
From: francwalter at gmx.de (franc walter)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 12:43:35 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
	virtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1007082055330.4580@data.home>
References: <PC195201007080837450718dd03c6bb@msapiro>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007082016320.4580@data.home>
	<1i86bdol95oxd.dlg@news.7fw.de>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007082055330.4580@data.home>
Message-ID: <1djs6eo2piim2$.dlg@news.7fw.de>

Am Thu, 8 Jul 2010 21:06:09 +0300 (IDT) schriebst du:

> A couple of things to note:
> 1.  The Mailman user under Debian/Ubuntu is list.
> 2.  The alias and virtual-mailman files will be in /var/lib/mailman/data

OK, thanks.

> IMHO, the section concerning virtual domains is more confusing than it
> needs to be, so feel free to ask if you get confused.

Oh yes, this is not clear to me. I don't understand where the file:

/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

should come from. Have i to build it?

I changed my postfix-main.cf from:

virtual_alias_maps =
mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-alias-maps.cf,mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-email2email.cf

to:

virtual_alias_maps =
mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-alias-maps.cf,mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-email2email.cf,hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

(i use mysql and no db-files for the virtual-domains) but then Postfix won't
run, because this file doesn't exist.

And i put into my mm_cfg.py this (i restartet mailman and postfix after):

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['example.org', 'example2.org']

because i have those two domains and want to run mailman with both. I think
it is wrong but i don't understand why.
I have read the doc (6.1.2) ten times, but my view doesn't change.
Could you give me a hint?

From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Fri Jul  9 15:34:36 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:34:36 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
 virtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <1djs6eo2piim2$.dlg@news.7fw.de>
References: <PC195201007080837450718dd03c6bb@msapiro>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007082016320.4580@data.home>
	<1i86bdol95oxd.dlg@news.7fw.de>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007082055330.4580@data.home>
	<1djs6eo2piim2$.dlg@news.7fw.de>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1007091628100.4580@data.home>

On Fri, 9 Jul 2010, franc walter wrote:

> Oh yes, this is not clear to me. I don't understand where the file:
>
> /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>
> should come from. Have i to build it?

This is built by the /usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases script, providing you 
have Mailman configured correctly.

> I changed my postfix-main.cf from:
>
> virtual_alias_maps =
> mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-alias-maps.cf,mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-email2email.cf
>
> to:
>
> virtual_alias_maps =
> mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-alias-maps.cf,mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-email2email.cf,hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

This looks right to me.

> And i put into my mm_cfg.py this (i restartet mailman and postfix after):
>
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['example.org', 'example2.org']

This also looks right.  Try running genaliases.

Geoff.


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Fri Jul  9 15:39:38 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:39:38 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown
 invirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <wmtetiny88l7.dlg@news.7fw.de>
References: <PC1952010070817193308282db0309d@msapiro>
	<wmtetiny88l7.dlg@news.7fw.de>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1007091636070.4580@data.home>

On Fri, 9 Jul 2010, franc walter wrote:

>        % chown mailman:mailman data/aliases*
>        % chmod g+w data/aliases*
> "
>
> Ubuntu uses "list" and not "mailman". I hope this is not a problem.

You will need to chown these files as list.list or at least root.list.

> I thought if the packager (Ubuntu in my case) make such a package available,
> i just have to install it and all is well, but it is not like this.

This is why I recommended reading the entire manual, skiping only the 
sections which are obviously irrelevant.

For example, the manual will tell you about check_perms.  This script is 
very useful, and good to run at various points during your setup to make 
sure that everyone is happy.

Geoff.


From francwalter at gmx.de  Fri Jul  9 17:11:07 2010
From: francwalter at gmx.de (franc walter)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 17:11:07 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
	virtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1007091628100.4580@data.home>
References: <PC195201007080837450718dd03c6bb@msapiro>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007082016320.4580@data.home>
	<1i86bdol95oxd.dlg@news.7fw.de>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007082055330.4580@data.home>
	<1djs6eo2piim2$.dlg@news.7fw.de>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007091628100.4580@data.home>
Message-ID: <1njx21vvqg7gw.dlg@news.7fw.de>

Am Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:34:36 +0300 (IDT) schriebst du:

> This also looks right.  Try running genaliases.

If i run

/usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases

in:

/var/lib/mailman/data/

all i get is aliases and aliases.db, but no virtual-mailman and
virtual-mailman.db

Im my mm_cfg.py i have

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['example.org', 'example2.org']

Do i need more?

Another problem is, that i don't know where to put

virtual-alias.domain anything

From francwalter at gmx.de  Fri Jul  9 18:12:22 2010
From: francwalter at gmx.de (franc walter)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 18:12:22 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
	virtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1007091854260.4580@data.home>
References: <PC195201007080837450718dd03c6bb@msapiro>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007082016320.4580@data.home>
	<1i86bdol95oxd.dlg@news.7fw.de>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007082055330.4580@data.home>
	<1djs6eo2piim2$.dlg@news.7fw.de>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007091628100.4580@data.home>
	<uk5ohhwcxve0$.dlg@news.7fw.de>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007091854260.4580@data.home>
Message-ID: <1jy5trno003o4$.dlg@news.7fw.de>

Am Fri, 9 Jul 2010 19:02:13 +0300 (IDT) schriebst du:

> Do you have "mta=postfix"?

Yes.

> If you're unable to Email outside yoru domain then this seems to be a
> Postfix issue, not a Mailman.  As the docs say, you should probably make
> sure your virtual domains are working properly before trying to bolt
> Mailman into place.

This is solved. It was either relay_domains where i put lists.example.org or
mynetworks, which was empty and i put my IP/32 and 127.0.0.1/8
Now all members get mails from the list.

But now i have the problem, that i want to create another list with another
virtual domain (example2.org), which is running on the same server.

I guess this is only possible with this setting to get this
virtual-mailman.db, but i don't know how to continue..

From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Fri Jul  9 18:22:30 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 19:22:30 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
 virtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <146p9f3cmoh0l.dlg@news.7fw.de>
References: <PC195201007080837450718dd03c6bb@msapiro>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007082016320.4580@data.home>
	<1i86bdol95oxd.dlg@news.7fw.de>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007082055330.4580@data.home>
	<1djs6eo2piim2$.dlg@news.7fw.de>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007091628100.4580@data.home>
	<uk5ohhwcxve0$.dlg@news.7fw.de>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007091854260.4580@data.home>
	<146p9f3cmoh0l.dlg@news.7fw.de>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1007091921280.4580@data.home>

On Fri, 9 Jul 2010, franc walter wrote:

> But now i have the problem, that i want to create another list with another
> virtual domain (example2.org), which is running on the same server.
>
> I guess this is only possible with this setting to get this
> virtual-mailman.db, but i don't know how to continue..

Can you post your mm_cfg.py file as it is now?

Geoff.


From francwalter at gmx.de  Fri Jul  9 18:45:35 2010
From: francwalter at gmx.de (franc walter)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 18:45:35 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
	virtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1007091921280.4580@data.home>
References: <PC195201007080837450718dd03c6bb@msapiro>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007082016320.4580@data.home>
	<1i86bdol95oxd.dlg@news.7fw.de>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007082055330.4580@data.home>
	<1djs6eo2piim2$.dlg@news.7fw.de>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007091628100.4580@data.home>
	<uk5ohhwcxve0$.dlg@news.7fw.de>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007091854260.4580@data.home>
	<146p9f3cmoh0l.dlg@news.7fw.de>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007091921280.4580@data.home>
Message-ID: <fj8irr3lxc7$.dlg@news.7fw.de>

Am Fri, 9 Jul 2010 19:22:30 +0300 (IDT) schriebst du:

> Can you post your mm_cfg.py file as it is now?

My mm_cfg.py:


# -*- python -*-


"""This is the module which takes your site-specific settings.

>From a raw distribution it should be copied to mm_cfg.py.  If you
already have an mm_cfg.py, be careful to add in only the new settings
you want.  The complete set of distributed defaults, with annotation,
are in ./Defaults.  In mm_cfg, override only those you want to
change, after the

  from Defaults import *

line (see below).

Note that these are just default settings - many can be overridden via the
admin and user interfaces on a per-list or per-user basis.

Note also that some of the settings are resolved against the active list
setting by using the value as a format string against the
list-instance-object's dictionary - see the distributed value of
DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER for an example."""


from Defaults import *


MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'


DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'

PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/cgi-bin/mailman/private'

IMAGE_LOGOS         = '/images/mailman/'

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.example.org'

DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'example.org'

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en'

USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER    = 0              # Still used?

DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0

MTA='Postfix'

DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'de'

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['example.org', 'example2.de']

From lists at viplist.us  Fri Jul  9 22:01:02 2010
From: lists at viplist.us (lists at viplist.us)
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 13:01:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 25,000 unsubscribes in one hour
Message-ID: <20100709.200102.156.1@SERVER1>

Easiest wasy to check, is to send a message to one of the addresses from 
the same domain, i.e. Yahoo email to Yahoo email.  If real bounce, Yahoo 
will give you that message immediately.  Same with Hotmail, AOL, etc.


----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
To: dan at danshow.com, <mailman-users at python.org>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 14:20:46 -0700
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] 25,000 unsubscribes in one hour

> Dan Sherbondy wrote:
> 
> >Over a month ago I used mailman for a 100,000 mailing.
> > 
> >Yesterday, in a 4 hour span, I received 25,000 unsubscribe notifications
> >such as "lupetherealtor at yahoo.com has been removed from TopCARealtors"
> >
> >I normally received 100 unsubscribes per mailing so I think something is
> >wrong and dont want to remove these people from my list unless they
> >really unsubscribed.
> >
> >Is the unsubscribe notice used for bad addresses as well as
> >unsubscribes?
> 
> 
> Yes. When a member is unsubscribed by automated bounce processind, the
> same message is sent to the list owner if
> bounce_notify_owner_on_removal is Yes.
> 
> Also, if bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is Yes, there will be a notice
> to the list owner containing the  triggering bounce at the time the
> member's delivery is disabled which may or may bot be the same as the
> time the member is removed depending on the setting of
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings.
> 	
> So these may have been legitimate bounce unsubscribes or they may have
> been bounce unsubscribes due to some abnormal mail delivery failure or
> they may be something else.
> 
> It's hard to say anything more without seeing the list's Bounce
> processing settings, Mailman's bounce log and perhaps MTA logs.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lists%40viplist.us
> 

From ifetch at du.edu  Fri Jul  9 22:04:21 2010
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:04:21 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Storing list admin password in LDAP,
 or unencrypted?
In-Reply-To: <PC195201007081029290968dee378e5@msapiro>
References: <PC195201007081029290968dee378e5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1007081614090.73256@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

Hello,

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Ivan Fetch wrote:
>>
>>    We would like to integrate Mailman with a spam quarantine system. List
>> admin(s) will need to login to manage quarantined messages, and we would
>> like this login to use the list admin password. I'd like some feedback on
>> the best way to accomplish this, with Mailman.
>>
>>
>>    I can think of two ways to accomplish this -
>>
>>    1. Mailman consults LDAP for the list admin password, and is able to
>> also set that password (for the web UI and the change_pw script). Mailing
>> lists are already defined in LDAP for our MTAs.
>>
>>    2. The Mailman list admin passwords are stored in an unencrypted form,
>> which we regularly sync to LDAP, for the quarantine system to use.
>>
>>
>>    IT seems like option 2 would be simpler in terms of code, although less
>> ideal (because the password wouldn't be encrypted).
>>
>>
>>    Which method (or is there a third way?) is going to make the most sense
>> for seamless integration with Mailman?
>
>
> I suggest a third method.
>
> Do not change Mailman at all.
>
> Periodically, via cron and/or on demand, retrieve the list's 'password'
> attribute from lists/listname/config.pck. This can be done with a
> Python program using the Mailman API to instantiate the list and get
> the password, or it could be done with a withlist script whose process
> was simply
>
> def get_list_pw(mlist):
>    print mlist.password
>
> or it could be done, e.g., by
>
> /path/to/bin/dumpdb /path/to/lists/$listname/config.pck | \
>   grep \'password\' | sed -e s'/^.*: .//' -e 's/.,$//'
>
> This is the encrypted password. Store that in LDAP and have your
> quarantine system validate a password by encrypting it using Mailman's
> algorithm (a 40-hex-digit representation of a SHA1 hash of the
> plaintext) and comparing that to the list's encrypted password.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


    Great - makes very good sense, thank you. We have tested this by 
getting the list's admin password, removing the hexification (with 
binascii.unhexlify) which leaves the password in SHA1 digest form, then 
base64 encoding the password, and putting it into LDAP.


    How much difference in eficiency is there, between runnig dumpdb vs. 
using python code to only get a list's password? I know dumpdb is doing 
more (because it dumps the entire pck), but is it going to be enough to matter?

    The script we'll write, will probably run every 5 minutes, iterating 
through all lists, and setting password attributes in LDAP for passwords 
which have changed. I'd like to have minimal impact on Mailman (RE: using 
dumpdb).


- Ivan


From lists at viplist.us  Fri Jul  9 22:12:34 2010
From: lists at viplist.us (lists at viplist.us)
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 13:12:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to change the template files
Message-ID: <20100709.201234.078.2@SERVER1>

I did restart Mailman, but I neglected to make sure all qrunners were 
stopped.

I just want to be alble to send graphics inline, so it looks like this will 
work.  I will try and change in low peak usage.

Thanks.



----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
To: lists at viplist.us, mailman-users at python.org
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:05:09 -0700
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to change the template files

> lists at viplist.us wrote:
> 
> >It looks like each file that calls a txt file would have to be changed, 
or 
> >is there somewhere that I can globally change the
> >
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 
> >
> >to iso-8859-1?  I know I would then have to change all text files that 
are 
> >emailed (after figuring out which ones are emailed and which ones are 
> >simply includes.)
> 
> 
> Why would you need to change any templates? the 'en' ones are all
> us-ascii which is a proper subset of iso-8859-1.
> 
> 
> >I tried changing the selection in Defaults.py  for English to 
iso-8859-1, 
> >but that did not do it.
> 
> 
> It seems you've changed the question from "how do I put HTML into .txt
> templates" to "how do I change the character set of Mailman generated
> list mail".
> 
> From this, I gather that the real issue you are trying to address is
> inclusion of non-ascii characters in templates.
> 
> If that is the case, changing the character set for 'en' from us-ascii
> to iso-8859-1 or utf-8 should work provided the non-ascii characters
> in the templates are encoded in the same (iso-8859-1 or utf-8)
> encoding.
> 
> It is best not to change this in Defaults.py, but rather override it in
> mm_cfg.py (see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/fIA9>) with a line
> 
> add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'iso-8859-1', 'ltr')
> 
> (and the omission of the i18n _() around 'English (USA)' is
> intentional).
> 
> As to why this didn't seem to work when you changed Defaults.py, did
> you restart Mailman after the change?
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 

From lists at viplist.us  Fri Jul  9 23:26:38 2010
From: lists at viplist.us (lists at viplist.us)
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:26:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to change the template files
Message-ID: <20100709.212638.546.3@SERVER1>

I changed, restarted, but cannot send html email.  It shows up all as html 
coding.

What my clients want to do is to be able to send a html email, for the 
welcome email, the confirmation email, the help email, etc.

----- Original Message -----
From: lists at viplist.us
To: "Mark Sapiro" <mark at msapiro.net>,  mailman-users at python.org
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 13:12:34 -0700
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to change the template files

> I did restart Mailman, but I neglected to make sure all qrunners were 
> stopped.
> 
> I just want to be alble to send graphics inline, so it looks like this 
will 
> work.  I will try and change in low peak usage.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
> To: lists at viplist.us, mailman-users at python.org
> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:05:09 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to change the template files
> 
> > lists at viplist.us wrote:
> > 
> > >It looks like each file that calls a txt file would have to be 
changed, 
> or 
> > >is there somewhere that I can globally change the
> > >
> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 
> > >
> > >to iso-8859-1?  I know I would then have to change all text files that 
> are 
> > >emailed (after figuring out which ones are emailed and which ones are 
> > >simply includes.)
> > 
> > 
> > Why would you need to change any templates? the 'en' ones are all
> > us-ascii which is a proper subset of iso-8859-1.
> > 
> > 
> > >I tried changing the selection in Defaults.py  for English to 
> iso-8859-1, 
> > >but that did not do it.
> > 
> > 
> > It seems you've changed the question from "how do I put HTML into .txt
> > templates" to "how do I change the character set of Mailman generated
> > list mail".
> > 
> > From this, I gather that the real issue you are trying to address is
> > inclusion of non-ascii characters in templates.
> > 
> > If that is the case, changing the character set for 'en' from us-ascii
> > to iso-8859-1 or utf-8 should work provided the non-ascii characters
> > in the templates are encoded in the same (iso-8859-1 or utf-8)
> > encoding.
> > 
> > It is best not to change this in Defaults.py, but rather override it in
> > mm_cfg.py (see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/fIA9>) with a line
> > 
> > add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'iso-8859-1', 'ltr')
> > 
> > (and the omission of the i18n _() around 'English (USA)' is
> > intentional).
> > 
> > As to why this didn't seem to work when you changed Defaults.py, did
> > you restart Mailman after the change?
> > 
> > -- 
> > Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> > San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> > 
> > 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lists%40viplist.us
> 

From webmaster at pacificcoastcruzer.com  Thu Jul  8 22:34:31 2010
From: webmaster at pacificcoastcruzer.com (Webmaster)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 16:34:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not sending emails
Message-ID: <114190247.174941.1278621271524.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxusltgw06.schlund.de>

I used this method to install mailmain on my centos 5?server, apache, php and
postifx.
http://www.kholix.com/wiki/index.php/Howto_install_mailman_on_postfix_mta_server
?
When I created the list the administrator received the e-mail the list was
created.
?
Then subscribed to the new list with a different e-mail and again received the
confirmation e-mail.
?
Then I sent an e-mail to test at lists.example.com [mailto:test at lists.example.com]
as the administrator and nothing happens. No bounce back, no e-mail sent,
nothing archived it's like it just go out to no man?s land.
?
I have to admit I suck and Linux?so please?try to keep it simple.

?

Jesse Gifford
Webmaster
www.PacificCoastCruzer.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jul 10 03:20:25 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 18:20:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown
	invirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <fj8irr3lxc7$.dlg@news.7fw.de>
Message-ID: <PC195201007091820250275699060ec@msapiro>

franc walter wrote:

>Am Fri, 9 Jul 2010 19:22:30 +0300 (IDT) schriebst du:
>
>> Can you post your mm_cfg.py file as it is now?
>
>My mm_cfg.py:
[...]
>MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'
>
>
>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'
>
>PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/cgi-bin/mailman/private'
>
>IMAGE_LOGOS         = '/images/mailman/'
>
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.example.org'
>
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'example.org'
>
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>
>DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en'
>
>USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER    = 0              # Still used?
>
>DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0
>
>MTA='Postfix'
>
>DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'de'
>
>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['example.org', 'example2.de']



You have only set one host. The default host has web domain
'example.org' and email domain 'lists.example.org'.

The only lists for which Mailman will create virtual-mailman entries
are those whose email domain is 'example.org' or 'example2.de'.

At a minimum, you want to put something like

add_virtualhost('www.example2.de', 'example2.de')

following the add_virtualhost() for the default domains. Then you could
create a list in the example2.de domain either by going to
<http://www.example2.de/mailman/cgi-bin/create> or via "bin/newlist -u
www.example2.de" and the list will be created with email domain (the
list's host_name attribute) example2.de and virtual mappings for the
list will be created in data/virtual-mailman (because example2.de is
in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS.

As it is, your lists are created with email host (host_name) =
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.example.org' which is not in
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS, so no virtual-mailman entries.

Do you really want the default lists to have URLs like
<http://example.org/mailman/cgi-bin/...> and email addresses like
list at lists.example.org? If this is the reverse of what you want, you
need to reverse your settings for DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and
DEFAULT_URL_HOST.

If you make changes, you will probably need to run fix_url to change
the existing lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jul 10 03:24:32 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 18:24:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User
	unknowninvirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <wmtetiny88l7.dlg@news.7fw.de>
Message-ID: <PC195201007091824320322b15e6722@msapiro>

franc walter wrote:
>
>I thought if the packager (Ubuntu in my case) make such a package available,
>i just have to install it and all is well, but it is not like this.
>I have spent many hours till yet to make this work and still it is not
>running.


I agree that that's how it should work, or at least if it is not an
install and it works situation, the packager should provide the
necessary documentation of what needs to be done.

But, these are not things over which the upstream provider has any
control.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jul 10 03:47:18 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 18:47:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to change the template files
In-Reply-To: <20100709.212638.546.3@SERVER1>
Message-ID: <PC195201007091847180744440a183a@msapiro>

lists at viplist.us wrote:

>I changed, restarted, but cannot send html email.  It shows up all as html 
>coding.


Right. See my original reply in this thread at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-July/069877.html>.


>What my clients want to do is to be able to send a html email, for the 
>welcome email, the confirmation email, the help email, etc.


And that requires source code modification as I noted in the above
referenced reply.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jul 10 05:03:52 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 20:03:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not sending emails
In-Reply-To: <114190247.174941.1278621271524.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxusltgw06.schlund.de>
References: <114190247.174941.1278621271524.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxusltgw06.schlund.de>
Message-ID: <4C37E318.20605@msapiro.net>

On 7/8/2010 1:34 PM, Webmaster wrote:
> I used this method to install mailmain on my centos 5 server, apache,
> php and postifx. 
> http://www.kholix.com/wiki/index.php/Howto_install_mailman_on_postfix_mta_server


Which tells you to use the third party postfix-to-mailman.py module for
mail delivery to Mailman, and which appears to be defective[1].


>  When I created the list the administrator received the e-mail the
> list was created.
> 
> Then subscribed to the new list with a different e-mail and again
> received the confirmation e-mail.


So outgoing mail from Mailman works. This of course does not involve
postfix-to-mailman.py.


> Then I sent an e-mail to test at lists.example.com
> as the administrator and nothing
> happens. No bounce back, no e-mail sent, nothing archived it's like
> it just go out to no man?s land.
> 
> I have to admit I suck and Linux so please try to keep it simple.


Looks in your Postfix log (/var/log/maillog, or wherever it is) and find
out what Postfix did with the message. If it successfully delivered it
via the 'mailman' relay/transport, it should have been queued in
Mailman's in/ queue (/var/spool/mailman/in in CentOS/RHEL). If not, the
Postfix log should give you a clue. Note, it must have been delivered
via the 'mailman' relay/transport. Any other delivery, e.g. to a
mailbox, won't work and indicates that Postfix' transport table doesn't
contain the

If it got successfully queued, see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9> (only items 1, 2b, 6b, 7, 8 and 9 are
potentially relevant to your situation).


[1] Your referenced howto appears to omit a crucial piece. You must add

lists.example.com   mailman:

to /etc/postfix/transport and then run 'postmap /etc/postfix/transport'.

Also, the postfix-to-mailman.py it tells you to use is broken for
current RHEL/CentOS because it assumes you can set a single MailmanHome
directory which contains both the lists/ directory and the mail/mailman
wrapper, but in current RHEL/CentOS these are /var/lib/mailman/lists and
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman respectively.

Finally, it does mention

    *  Let do piping on postfix in order to deliver mailman lists.

mailman      unix   -       n       n       -       -       pipe
 flags=FR user=mailman:mailman
argv=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py ${nexthop} ${mailbox}

but it doesn't say where (master.cf) to put that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jul 10 06:34:24 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 21:34:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Storing list admin password in LDAP,
	orunencrypted?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1007081614090.73256@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
Message-ID: <PC19520100709213424044742ba8557@msapiro>

Ivan Fetch wrote:
>
>    How much difference in eficiency is there, between runnig dumpdb vs. 
>using python code to only get a list's password? I know dumpdb is doing 
>more (because it dumps the entire pck), but is it going to be enough to matter?


I don't think it's enough to worry about. If anything, bin/dumpdb does
less work to read the config.pck and unpickle the list object than any
Mailman process which actually instantiates the list. In return, it
does extra to format and print the output, but I don't think there
will be enough difference to matter.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From francwalter at gmx.de  Sat Jul 10 12:00:06 2010
From: francwalter at gmx.de (franc walter)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:00:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown
	invirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <PC195201007091820250275699060ec@msapiro>
References: <PC195201007091820250275699060ec@msapiro>
Message-ID: <sowjl3kcvjx4$.dlg@news.7fw.de>

On Fri, 9 Jul 2010 18:20:25 -0700 you wrote:


> You have only set one host. The default host has web domain
> 'example.org' and email domain 'lists.example.org'.

> The only lists for which Mailman will create virtual-mailman entries
> are those whose email domain is 'example.org' or 'example2.de'.

> At a minimum, you want to put something like

> add_virtualhost('www.example2.de', 'example2.de')

> following the add_virtualhost() for the default domains.



OK, again, if I have 3 virtual domains on it:

example1.org
example2.org
example3.org

and i want to have for each domain a separate list:

list1 on example1.org
list2 on example2.org
list3 on example3.org

The emailhost of each of those lists should be like

lists.example1.org
lists.example2.org
lists.example3.org


So is this the right setting:


POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['example1.org', 'example2.org',
'example3.org']

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
add_virtualhost('example1.org', 'lists.example1.org')
add_virtualhost('example2.org', 'lists.example2.org')
add_virtualhost('example3.org', 'lists.example3.org')

?

In Postfix i put:

alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases,hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
relay_domains = lists.example1.org,lists.example2.org,lists.example3.org
mydestination = lists.example1.org, lists.example2.org, lists.example3.org,
example1.org, example2.org, example3.org, localhost
virtual_alias_maps =
mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-alias-maps.cf,mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-email2email.cf,hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

is this right?

I wonder if i want to add a new virtual domain, now i have to change a lot
in mm_cfg.py (mailman) and also in main.cf (postfix).
And only then i can run:

newlist --urlhost=example4.org --emailhost=lists.example4.org list4

This seems to me much too complicated that i think there must be still many
things i didn't get or i set wrong.

I think my main problem is, that my origin language is NOT english and i
probably just don't understand some important things when i read the doc.
And there is NO german doc for mailman.



: franc


From francwalter at gmx.de  Sat Jul 10 12:37:31 2010
From: francwalter at gmx.de (franc walter)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:37:31 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown
	invirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <PC195201007091820250275699060ec@msapiro>
References: <PC195201007091820250275699060ec@msapiro>
Message-ID: <7p3ozmqvfqq6$.dlg@news.7fw.de>

Am Fri, 9 Jul 2010 18:20:25 -0700 schriebst du:

> Then you could
> create a list in the example2.de domain either by going to
> <http://www.example2.de/mailman/cgi-bin/create>

1. If i want to create a list, there is another mystery, the "List creator's
password", which i never had given. If i look into the doc in:

http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node45.html

they send me to (7):

http://www.list.org/mailman-install/customizing.html#customizing

where there is no mention at all about this. So i had to set it myself with
"mmsitepass".

By the way, it is not .../mailman/cgi-bin but .../cgi-bin/mailman.

3. When i create the new list i get:

"Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9
We're sorry, we hit a bug!
Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but
the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs."


But with list_lists i can see that the list was created (without
notification mail).

Is this true? A "bug" in Mailman?

In the error log of mailman i find:

Jul 10 12:07:37 2010 (5257) command failed: /usr/sbin/postmap
/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman (status: 1, Operation not permitted)
Jul 10 12:07:37 2010 admin(5257):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(5257): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -----]
admin(5257): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(5257): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(5257):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 110, in run_main
admin(5257):     main()
admin(5257):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 56, in
main
admin(5257):     process_request(doc, cgidata)
admin(5257):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 238, in
process_request
admin(5257):     sys.modules[modname].create(mlist, cgi=1)
admin(5257):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232, in
create
admin(5257):     _update_maps()
admin(5257):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 60, in
_update_maps
admin(5257):     raise RuntimeError, msg % (vcmd, status, errstr)
admin(5257): RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postmap
/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman (status: 1, Operation not permitted)
admin(5257): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(5257): sys.version     =   2.5.2 (r252:60911, Jan 20 2010, 21:48:48)
[GCC 4.2.4 (Ubuntu 4.2.4-1ubuntu3)]
admin(5257): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python
admin(5257): sys.prefix      =   /usr
admin(5257): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
admin(5257): sys.path        =   /usr
admin(5257): sys.platform    =   linux2
admin(5257): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(5257): 	HTTP_COOKIE: ...
...


But the rights of virtual-mailman seem ok:

ls -l /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
-rw-rw---- 1 www-data list 1,6K 2010-07-10 12:07 virtual-mailman


But anyway, i can create lists with newlist, i don't need the webinterface,
so this is not a big problem.



From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Sat Jul 10 13:23:59 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 14:23:59 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown
 invirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <7p3ozmqvfqq6$.dlg@news.7fw.de>
References: <PC195201007091820250275699060ec@msapiro>
	<7p3ozmqvfqq6$.dlg@news.7fw.de>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1007101418010.4580@data.home>

On Sat, 10 Jul 2010, franc walter wrote:

> 1. If i want to create a list, there is another mystery, the "List creator's
> password", which i never had given. If i look into the doc in:
>
> http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node45.html
>
> they send me to (7):
>
> http://www.list.org/mailman-install/customizing.html#customizing
>
> where there is no mention at all about this. So i had to set it myself with
> "mmsitepass".

You're right.  They should have sent you to section 12 - 
http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node44.html

You'd have already read this if you'd read the manual in sequence.

> 3. When i create the new list i get:
>
> "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9
> We're sorry, we hit a bug!
> Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
> traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but
> the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs."
>
>
> But with list_lists i can see that the list was created (without
> notification mail).
>
> Is this true? A "bug" in Mailman?

Not in this case.

> In the error log of mailman i find:
>
> Jul 10 12:07:37 2010 (5257) command failed: /usr/sbin/postmap
> /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman (status: 1, Operation not permitted)

Looks like a permissions problem.

> But the rights of virtual-mailman seem ok:
>
> ls -l /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
> -rw-rw---- 1 www-data list 1,6K 2010-07-10 12:07 virtual-mailman

What about the permissions on /var/lib/mailman/data ?  Postmap may not be 
able to write the output file.

Geoff.


From francwalter at gmx.de  Sat Jul 10 14:51:07 2010
From: francwalter at gmx.de (franc walter)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 14:51:07 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown
	invirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1007101418010.4580@data.home>
References: <PC195201007091820250275699060ec@msapiro>
	<7p3ozmqvfqq6$.dlg@news.7fw.de>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.1007101418010.4580@data.home>
Message-ID: <1pmlpdteogcz1.dlg@news.7fw.de>

Am Sat, 10 Jul 2010 14:23:59 +0300 (IDT) schriebst du:

> What about the permissions on /var/lib/mailman/data ?  Postmap may not be
> able to write the output file.

That's it.
I put 777 on data and virtual-mailman* and now i can create a list.
Thank you for this hint and your patience!

But i still have problems:

When i create a mailinglist on example2.org "test" and if i mail to this
list, every member should get this mail. But without any error in the logs,
this mail just gets swallowed by postfix:

This is what i read in mail.log of postfix:

Jul 10 14:20:07 example postfix/local[7899]: 62BFB6D0EC00A:
to=<mailman at lists.example.org>, relay=local, delay=0.14,
delays=0.01/0.01/0/0.13, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command:
/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman)
Jul 10 14:20:07 example postfix/qmgr[32331]: 62BFB6D0EC00A: removed


Jul 10 14:04:52 example postfix/pipe[3852]: 38D176D0EC008:
to=<test at example.org>, orig_to=<test at lists.example2.de>, relay=dovecot,
delay=0.02, delays=0.01/0/0/0.01, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered via
dovecot service)
Jul 10 14:04:52 example postfix/qmgr[32331]: 38D176D0EC008: removed



instead of given to the command it is given to <test at example.org>

What could be wrong here?



From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jul 10 16:47:52 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 07:47:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User
	unknowninvirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <sowjl3kcvjx4$.dlg@news.7fw.de>
Message-ID: <PC1952010071007475203900962acfa@msapiro>

franc walter wrote:
>
>OK, again, if I have 3 virtual domains on it:
>
>example1.org
>example2.org
>example3.org
>
>and i want to have for each domain a separate list:
>
>list1 on example1.org
>list2 on example2.org
>list3 on example3.org
>
>The emailhost of each of those lists should be like
>
>lists.example1.org
>lists.example2.org
>lists.example3.org
>
>
>So is this the right setting:
>
>
>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['example1.org', 'example2.org',
>'example3.org']
>
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>add_virtualhost('example1.org', 'lists.example1.org')
>add_virtualhost('example2.org', 'lists.example2.org')
>add_virtualhost('example3.org', 'lists.example3.org')


No. For the above situation you need

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.example1.org',
    'lists.example2.org', 'lists.example3.org']

The POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS are email domains, not web domains.


>In Postfix i put:
>
>alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases,hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
>relay_domains = lists.example1.org,lists.example2.org,lists.example3.org
>mydestination = lists.example1.org, lists.example2.org, lists.example3.org,
>example1.org, example2.org, example3.org, localhost


lists.example1.org,, etc are virtual_alias_domains, not relay_domains.
Also, it they are in my_destination, they ar not Postfix virtual
domains at all, they are local domains to Postfix.

You need to decide which they are. Either they are in
virtual_alias_domains and not in my_destination, in which case, they
also need to be in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS and you need the
,hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman below, or they are in
my-destination and not in virtual_alias_domains, in which case, they
do not need to be in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS and you do not need
the ,hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman below



>virtual_alias_maps =
>mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-alias-maps.cf,mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-email2email.cf,hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>
>is this right?
>
>I wonder if i want to add a new virtual domain, now i have to change a lot
>in mm_cfg.py (mailman) and also in main.cf (postfix).
>And only then i can run:
>
>newlist --urlhost=example4.org --emailhost=lists.example4.org list4
>
>This seems to me much too complicated that i think there must be still many
>things i didn't get or i set wrong.


It's only a bit mor complicated than necessary. You do have to add the
lists.example4.org domain to virtual_alias_domains in main.cf and you
do need the

add_virtualhost('example4.org', 'lists.example4.org') in mm_cfg.py as
well as adding 'lists.example4.org' to POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS.
You also probably need to add the example4.org virtual host to the web
server, or if they are local to Postfix, you just have to add
lists.example4.org to my_destination and add the
add_virtualhost('example4.org', 'lists.example4.org') to mm_cfg.py,

but your bin/newlist can be just

newlist --urlhost=example4.org  list4

because newlist will look up the email host from the url host in the
dictionary that's updated with add_virtualhost.

Also, you could create the list from the web via

http://example4.org/cgi-bin/mailman/create


>I think my main problem is, that my origin language is NOT english and i
>probably just don't understand some important things when i read the doc.
>And there is NO german doc for mailman.


Perhaps you could contact the maintainers of the German translation
(see <http://wiki.list.org/x/Pw>) and ask them to volunteer to create
some.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jul 10 17:09:45 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 08:09:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User
	unknowninvirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <1pmlpdteogcz1.dlg@news.7fw.de>
Message-ID: <PC195201007100809450015776694fc@msapiro>

franc walter wrote:
>
>When i create a mailinglist on example2.org "test" and if i mail to this
>list, every member should get this mail. But without any error in the logs,
>this mail just gets swallowed by postfix:
>
>This is what i read in mail.log of postfix:
>
>Jul 10 14:20:07 example postfix/local[7899]: 62BFB6D0EC00A:
>to=<mailman at lists.example.org>, relay=local, delay=0.14,
>delays=0.01/0.01/0/0.13, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command:
>/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman)
>Jul 10 14:20:07 example postfix/qmgr[32331]: 62BFB6D0EC00A: removed


Note the above says you are delivering directly to a local domain and
not via virtual_alias_maps. If this mail doesn't get processed by
Mailman, it is because you haven't started the Mailman service
(mailmanctl which in turn starts the qrunners)


>Jul 10 14:04:52 example postfix/pipe[3852]: 38D176D0EC008:
>to=<test at example.org>, orig_to=<test at lists.example2.de>, relay=dovecot,
>delay=0.02, delays=0.01/0/0/0.01, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered via
>dovecot service)
>Jul 10 14:04:52 example postfix/qmgr[32331]: 38D176D0EC008: removed
>
>instead of given to the command it is given to <test at example.org>


This mail is originally to test at lists.example2.de and is mapped by
virtual_alias_maps to the local address 'test' to which Postfix
appends its cannonical hostname. Thus the mail is mapped to
test at example.org which is handled by the Dovecot LDA and not by
Postfix' local delivery, thus the 'test' alias in data/aliases is not
used.

If you want to use the Dovecot LDA in this way, The easiest thing for
you to do is to not use Postfix virtual domains at all. Just add your
lists.examplen.org domains only to my_destination in main-cf and
remove the ,hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman from
virtual_alias_maps. Then you can also remove
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS from mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Sat Jul 10 17:20:15 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 18:20:15 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User unknown
 invirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <sowjl3kcvjx4$.dlg@news.7fw.de>
References: <PC195201007091820250275699060ec@msapiro>
	<sowjl3kcvjx4$.dlg@news.7fw.de>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1007101429380.4580@data.home>

On Sat, 10 Jul 2010, franc walter wrote:

> OK, again, if I have 3 virtual domains on it:
>
> example1.org
> example2.org
> example3.org
>
> and i want to have for each domain a separate list:
>
> list1 on example1.org
> list2 on example2.org
> list3 on example3.org
>
> The emailhost of each of those lists should be like
>
> lists.example1.org
> lists.example2.org
> lists.example3.org

Do you want the Email addresses for your lists to be 
<listname>@lists.example1.org, <listname>@lists.example2.org, etc?  This 
is what I think you're saying.

> So is this the right setting:
>
>
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['example1.org', 'example2.org',
> 'example3.org']

If what I've written above is indeed what you want, then the 
postfix_style_virtual_domains will need to include the "list." part, as 
these are the Email host part of the adress.

> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> add_virtualhost('example1.org', 'lists.example1.org')
> add_virtualhost('example2.org', 'lists.example2.org')
> add_virtualhost('example3.org', 'lists.example3.org')

This sets the Email address to be <listname>@lists.example1.org (etc) and 
the web URL to be http://example1.org/...  Again, is this what you want?

> In Postfix i put:
>
> relay_domains = lists.example1.org,lists.example2.org,lists.example3.org

You won't want this.  Relay_domains, as I understand them, are domains for 
which you *relay* mail, not domains you actually host on this host.

> mydestination = lists.example1.org, lists.example2.org, lists.example3.org,
> example1.org, example2.org, example3.org, localhost

Again, you probably don't want your domains in mydestination if they're 
virtual.

> I wonder if i want to add a new virtual domain, now i have to change a lot
> in mm_cfg.py (mailman) and also in main.cf (postfix).

All I have to do when adding a domain is add it to our database via 
postfixadmin, then edit mm_cfg.py and add a call to add_virtualhost() and 
also add it to POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS.  Pretty simple.

> newlist --urlhost=example4.org --emailhost=lists.example4.org list4

If you have the add_virtual_host items in mm_cfg.py, you should be able to 
just do:

newlist list4 at lists.example4.org

though I admit to usually using --urlhost and --emailhost anyway just to 
be sure.

HTH,
Geoff.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jul 10 17:59:40 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 08:59:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User
	unknowninvirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1007101429380.4580@data.home>
Message-ID: <PC1952010071008594008439c6c7673@msapiro>

Geoff Shang wrote:

>On Sat, 10 Jul 2010, franc walter wrote:
>
>> newlist --urlhost=example4.org --emailhost=lists.example4.org list4
>
>If you have the add_virtual_host items in mm_cfg.py, you should be able to 
>just do:
>
>newlist list4 at lists.example4.org

The above is not correct. In this deprecated newlist usage, the domain
to the right of the '@' is the url host, not the email host so the
equivalent to Franc's command is

newlist list4 at example4.org

assuming the add_virtualhost('example4.org ', 'lists.example4.org ')
exists to map the urlhost to the email host.

But, this usage is deprecated and shouldn't be relied on.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Sat Jul 10 18:20:34 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 19:20:34 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User
 unknowninvirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010071008594008439c6c7673@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010071008594008439c6c7673@msapiro>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1007101916350.4580@data.home>

On Sat, 10 Jul 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>> newlist list4 at lists.example4.org
>
> The above is not correct. In this deprecated newlist usage, the domain
> to the right of the '@' is the url host, not the email host so the
> equivalent to Franc's command is
>
> newlist list4 at example4.org

huh!  Well how's that for counter-intuitive.

Still, that's what I get for not checking.

Geoff.


From francwalter at gmx.de  Sat Jul 10 18:45:09 2010
From: francwalter at gmx.de (franc walter)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 18:45:09 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User
	unknowninvirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <PC195201007100809450015776694fc@msapiro>
References: <PC195201007100809450015776694fc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <sbz68i2zk0ap.dlg@news.7fw.de>

Am Sat, 10 Jul 2010 08:09:45 -0700 schriebst du:

>> Jul 10 14:04:52 example postfix/pipe[3852]: 38D176D0EC008:
>> to=<test at example.org>, orig_to=<test at lists.example2.de>, relay=dovecot,
>> delay=0.02, delays=0.01/0/0/0.01, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered via
>> dovecot service)
>> Jul 10 14:04:52 example postfix/qmgr[32331]: 38D176D0EC008: removed

>> instead of given to the command it is given to <test at example.org>

> This mail is originally to test at lists.example2.de and is mapped by
> virtual_alias_maps to the local address 'test' to which Postfix
> appends its cannonical hostname. Thus the mail is mapped to
> test at example.org which is handled by the Dovecot LDA and not by
> Postfix' local delivery, thus the 'test' alias in data/aliases is not
> used.

But why???

I have many email-addresses with somename at exampleN.org and NONE of them is
given to somename at example.org!


And i have in data/aliases INDEED an entry:

test:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test"

So why is "test" not given to this command like the other list-email?

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jul 10 18:47:04 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 09:47:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected:
	Userunknowninvirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1007101916350.4580@data.home>
Message-ID: <PC195201007100947040265ddd5c4cd@msapiro>

Geoff Shang wrote:
>
>huh!  Well how's that for counter-intuitive.


That's why it's deprecated in favor of the -u option :)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From francwalter at gmx.de  Sat Jul 10 18:49:59 2010
From: francwalter at gmx.de (franc walter)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 18:49:59 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User
	unknowninvirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010071007475203900962acfa@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010071007475203900962acfa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <s9bcnyfj4ka4$.dlg@news.7fw.de>

Am Sat, 10 Jul 2010 07:47:52 -0700 schriebst du:


>> relay_domains = lists.example1.org,lists.example2.org,lists.example3.org


> lists.example1.org,, etc are virtual_alias_domains, not relay_domains.
> Also, it they are in my_destination, they ar not Postfix virtual
> domains at all, they are local domains to Postfix.


If i remove the lists.example1.org from relay_domains and i send a mail to
the list from an email-address which is NOT on the server, i just get a
bounce:

/Remote_host_said:_554_5.7.1_<test at lists.example1.org>:
_Relay_access_denied/Giving_up_on_1.2.3.4./

And if i put it back, it is not bounced.


So please tell me how i can avoid this bounce without putting
lists.example1.org in relay_domains in main.cf of postfix.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jul 10 19:02:00 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 10:02:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected:
	Userunknowninvirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <sbz68i2zk0ap.dlg@news.7fw.de>
Message-ID: <PC1952010071010020006569b16b490@msapiro>

franc walter wrote:

>Am Sat, 10 Jul 2010 08:09:45 -0700 schriebst du:
>
>> This mail is originally to test at lists.example2.de and is mapped by
>> virtual_alias_maps to the local address 'test' to which Postfix
>> appends its cannonical hostname. Thus the mail is mapped to
>> test at example.org which is handled by the Dovecot LDA and not by
>> Postfix' local delivery, thus the 'test' alias in data/aliases is not
>> used.
>
>But why???


Because in your Postfix transport maps you have an entry that says mail
to the example.org domain is handled by the Dovecot LDA, and the
Dovecot LDA doesn't consult Postfix' alias_maps.


>I have many email-addresses with somename at exampleN.org and NONE of them is
>given to somename at example.org!


Because you don't have any virtual_alias_maps of the form

somename at exampleN.org  somename


>And i have in data/aliases INDEED an entry:
>
>test:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test"
>
>So why is "test" not given to this command like the other list-email?


Because it is delivered via Dovecot and Dovecot doesn't consult
alias_maps.

There are at least three ways to fix this. I already gave you the
easiest one at the end of my reply at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-July/069926.html>

The second way is to stop using the Dovecot LDA, and the third way is
to download Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py from
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/files/head:/Mailman/MTA/>
and replace yours with the downloaded one and add

VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN ='some.nondovecot.local.domain'

to mm_cfg.py and run genaliases.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From francwalter at gmx.de  Sat Jul 10 19:05:16 2010
From: francwalter at gmx.de (franc walter)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 19:05:16 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected: User
	unknowninvirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <PC195201007100809450015776694fc@msapiro>
References: <PC195201007100809450015776694fc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <18vbapnqgpu96.dlg@news.7fw.de>

Am Sat, 10 Jul 2010 08:09:45 -0700 schriebst du:

> This mail is originally to test at lists.example2.de and is mapped by
> virtual_alias_maps to the local address 'test' to which Postfix
> appends its cannonical hostname. Thus the mail is mapped to
> test at example.org

So if i use a list called like the email-name of somebody in the example.org
domain, this means HE will get the mails for the list???
Very funny.

This is so confusing and there is no light.

Since several days i try to get this to work where i initially thought it is
a work of 1 or 2 hours.

Without your help i would have given up much earlier, but it seems that i
have to give up anyway...
I just don't understand you and you don't understand me.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jul 10 19:09:53 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 10:09:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected:
	Userunknowninvirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <s9bcnyfj4ka4$.dlg@news.7fw.de>
Message-ID: <PC1952010071010095309060854fdbf@msapiro>

franc walter wrote:

>Am Sat, 10 Jul 2010 07:47:52 -0700 schriebst du:
>
>
>>> relay_domains = lists.example1.org,lists.example2.org,lists.example3.org
>
>
>> lists.example1.org,, etc are virtual_alias_domains, not relay_domains.
>> Also, it they are in my_destination, they ar not Postfix virtual
>> domains at all, they are local domains to Postfix.
>
>
>If i remove the lists.example1.org from relay_domains and i send a mail to
>the list from an email-address which is NOT on the server, i just get a
>bounce:
>
>/Remote_host_said:_554_5.7.1_<test at lists.example1.org>:
>_Relay_access_denied/Giving_up_on_1.2.3.4./
>
>And if i put it back, it is not bounced.
>
>
>So please tell me how i can avoid this bounce without putting
>lists.example1.org in relay_domains in main.cf of postfix.


Put lists.example1.org in my_destination.

Or put lists.example1.org in virtual_alias_domains and do all the
virtual_alias_maps stuff.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jul 10 19:27:46 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 10:27:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected:
	Userunknowninvirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <18vbapnqgpu96.dlg@news.7fw.de>
Message-ID: <PC1952010071010274608437c89a1b9@msapiro>

franc walter wrote:

>Am Sat, 10 Jul 2010 08:09:45 -0700 schriebst du:
>
>> This mail is originally to test at lists.example2.de and is mapped by
>> virtual_alias_maps to the local address 'test' to which Postfix
>> appends its cannonical hostname. Thus the mail is mapped to
>> test at example.org
>
>So if i use a list called like the email-name of somebody in the example.org
>domain, this means HE will get the mails for the list???
>Very funny.


Yes, there are naming restrictions and in the default configurations, a
list may not have the same name as a local user. There are at least
two ways to avoid this conflict. One is by using postfix-to-mailman.py
and a single, dedicated domain for all list mail.

There are also things that can be done between Mailman and Postfix, but
they can be complex depending on your exact requirements.


>This is so confusing and there is no light.
>
>Since several days i try to get this to work where i initially thought it is
>a work of 1 or 2 hours.
>
>Without your help i would have given up much earlier, but it seems that i
>have to give up anyway...
>I just don't understand you and you don't understand me.


The simple, straight forward ways to do this have the following
restrictions.

If you use postfix-to-mailman.py all lists have a single, dedicated
email domain.

If you use Mailman/Postfix integration, you don't need a single domain
for list mail, but all list names must still be globally unique and
different from the name of any local user.

There are ways around these restrictions, but they are more
complicated, and in order to discuss them, I'd need to know what the
requirements are.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From francwalter at gmx.de  Sat Jul 10 19:39:28 2010
From: francwalter at gmx.de (franc walter)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 19:39:28 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address rejected:
	Userunknowninvirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010071010020006569b16b490@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010071010020006569b16b490@msapiro>
Message-ID: <b8u3o5n0wxq4.dlg@news.7fw.de>

Am Sat, 10 Jul 2010 10:02:00 -0700 schriebst du:

> and the third way is
> to download Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py from
> <http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/files/head:/Mailman/MTA/>
> and replace yours with the downloaded one and add

> VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN ='some.nondovecot.local.domain'

Ok, i downloaded this Postfix.py and put it to:

/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py

i put in my mm_cfg.py:

VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN ='lists.example2.org'

at the end and restarted postfix and mailman.

Now if i send from

friend at outside.org

to:

testlist at lists.example2.org

i get the bounce from Mailer-Daemon:

...
The mail system

<testlist at lists.example2.org>: unknown user: "testlist"

I hope you didn't think that i want to have any mail-address in dovecot with
testlist at lists.example2.org. I just want to have an distributing tool, a
mailinglist.



I feel so terribly silly by posting about 20 times and still beeing so far
away from a working mailman.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jul 10 19:50:59 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 10:50:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address
	rejected:Userunknowninvirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <b8u3o5n0wxq4.dlg@news.7fw.de>
Message-ID: <PC1952010071010505903287192e743@msapiro>

franc walter wrote:

>Am Sat, 10 Jul 2010 10:02:00 -0700 schriebst du:
>
>> and the third way is
>> to download Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py from
>> <http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/files/head:/Mailman/MTA/>
>> and replace yours with the downloaded one and add
>
>> VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN ='some.nondovecot.local.domain'
>
>Ok, i downloaded this Postfix.py and put it to:
>
>/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py
>
>i put in my mm_cfg.py:
>
>VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN ='lists.example2.org'
>
>at the end and restarted postfix and mailman.


And did you run genaliases?


>Now if i send from
>
>friend at outside.org
>
>to:
>
>testlist at lists.example2.org
>
>i get the bounce from Mailer-Daemon:
>
>...
>The mail system
>
><testlist at lists.example2.org>: unknown user: "testlist"
>
>I hope you didn't think that i want to have any mail-address in dovecot with
>testlist at lists.example2.org. I just want to have an distributing tool, a
>mailinglist.


No. You do not want any list addresses and domains in Dovecot.

With the above, all your lists will be mapped to the lists.example2.org
domain which must be local.

lists.example2.org needs to be in my_destination in main.cf and not in
virtual_alias_domains or in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS. All the
other list email domains need to be in both virtual_alias_domains and
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS, and data/virtual-mailman needs to be
referenced in virtual_alias_maps.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffg at turners.com  Sat Jul 10 22:01:56 2010
From: jeffg at turners.com (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 13:01:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella List
Message-ID: <AF87697EE8281446AEF1E87ED4F040E9286136@hq-srv-ex-01.turners.local>

I have two umbrella lists.  When a bounce gets received it doesn't do
anything because the users are not subscribed to the umbrella list.  Is
there a way for me to set the umbrella lists up so all bounce messages
are forwarded to my e-mail so I can make sure the bad e-mail addresses
get removed?

 

I am running Mailman version 2.1.12.

 

Thanks,

Jeff


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jul 10 22:51:39 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 13:51:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella List
In-Reply-To: <AF87697EE8281446AEF1E87ED4F040E9286136@hq-srv-ex-01.turners.local>
Message-ID: <PC195201007101351390359d84e2e8e@msapiro>

Jeff Grossman wrote:

>I have two umbrella lists.  When a bounce gets received it doesn't do
>anything because the users are not subscribed to the umbrella list.  Is
>there a way for me to set the umbrella lists up so all bounce messages
>are forwarded to my e-mail so I can make sure the bad e-mail addresses
>get removed?


Are these traditional umbrella lists where the sub-lists are members of
the umbrella, or are they 'regular include lists'?

If the former, messages to the users should be coming from the
sub-lists and bounces should be handled correctly.

If the latter, the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/TIA9> which discusses
this method points out that bounce processing doesn't work for
sub-list members. As to what you can do about it, if you have access
to the list's aliases, and if the 'umbrella' lists have no members,
you can change the alias for the 'umbrella-bounces' list to deliver to
you (or to 'umbrella-owner') so you can handle the bounces manually.

The fact that the FAQ says "Note however, that currently (Mailman
2.1.12) bounce processing won't work in this case ..." would seem to
imply that I intended to make it work in some future release, and I
may yet do so.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From francwalter at gmx.de  Sun Jul 11 01:27:38 2010
From: francwalter at gmx.de (franc walter)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 01:27:38 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient address
	rejected:Userunknowninvirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010071010505903287192e743@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010071010505903287192e743@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1mgo89q0y21tv$.dlg@news.7fw.de>

Am Sat, 10 Jul 2010 10:50:59 -0700 schriebst du:

> With the above, all your lists will be mapped to the lists.example2.org
> domain which must be local.

> lists.example2.org needs to be in my_destination in main.cf and not in
> virtual_alias_domains or in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS. All the
> other list email domains need to be in both virtual_alias_domains and
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS, and data/virtual-mailman needs to be
> referenced in virtual_alias_maps.

???

Which "all the other list email domains" ???
Why to put them to virtual_alias_domains etc. if it is not working?

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jul 11 02:09:32 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:09:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient
	addressrejected:Userunknowninvirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <1mgo89q0y21tv$.dlg@news.7fw.de>
Message-ID: <PC19520100710170932039092326766@msapiro>

franc walter wrote:

>Am Sat, 10 Jul 2010 10:50:59 -0700 schriebst du:
>
>> With the above, all your lists will be mapped to the lists.example2.org
>> domain which must be local.
>
>> lists.example2.org needs to be in my_destination in main.cf and not in
>> virtual_alias_domains or in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS. All the
>> other list email domains need to be in both virtual_alias_domains and
>> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS, and data/virtual-mailman needs to be
>> referenced in virtual_alias_maps.
>
>???
>
>Which "all the other list email domains" ???
>Why to put them to virtual_alias_domains etc. if it is not working?


virtual_alias_maps mappings map an address like
some_address at some.virtual.domain to another address. Your original
virtual-mailman mappings were of the form

list-address at virtual.domain  list-address

This didn't work for you because Postfix assumes that a bare
list-address is in the mydomain domain, but mail to mydomain is being
delivered via the Dovecot LDA which doesn't consult alias_maps, so the
mail to list-address was not piped to Mailman.

I suggested you could try the Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py from the head of
the 2.1 development branch because it can append a domain to the right
hand side of the mappings in virtual-mailman. This domain is set in
mm_cfg.py as VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN. I probably should have
pointed you to the documentation of POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS and
VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN in the branch as well, but I have
attached it here as doc.txt

You chose to set VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN to lists.example2.org.
Given that choice, I told you that you had to configure
lists.example2.org as local in postfix. The other domains,
lists.example1.org, lists.example3.org, lists.example4.org, etc. could
still be Postfix virtual domains and virtual-mailman will map, e.g.

list-address at lists.example1.org  list-address at lists.example2.org

for local delivery.

I would not have set

VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'lists.example2.org'

I probably would have set

VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'localhost'

and left all your lists.examplen.org domains virtual, but you didn't
ask me, You just reported what you'd done and asked me how to fix it
so I suggested the first fix that came to my mind.

Here's a simple view of how this works if properly configured.

For a list in a virtual domain in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS,
Mailman generates virtual-mailman mappings from list addresses in the
virtual domain to local addresses delivered by Postfix' local delivery
(not Dovecot). Postfix' local delivery consults alias_maps including
Mailman's aliases and these map the local addresses to the appropriate
pipe to Mailman.


If this isn't clear to you, perhaps some of the documentation at
<http://de.postfix.org/> will help.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From jeffg at turners.com  Sun Jul 11 16:49:21 2010
From: jeffg at turners.com (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 07:49:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella List
In-Reply-To: <PC195201007101351390359d84e2e8e@msapiro>
References: <PC195201007101351390359d84e2e8e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1d3e722c919bf10e997eb938c10d852c@turners.com>


On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 13:51:39 -0700, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Jeff Grossman wrote:
> 
>>I have two umbrella lists.  When a bounce gets received it doesn't do
>>anything because the users are not subscribed to the umbrella list.  Is
>>there a way for me to set the umbrella lists up so all bounce messages
>>are forwarded to my e-mail so I can make sure the bad e-mail addresses
>>get removed?
> 
> 
> Are these traditional umbrella lists where the sub-lists are members of
> the umbrella, or are they 'regular include lists'?
> 
> If the former, messages to the users should be coming from the
> sub-lists and bounces should be handled correctly.
> 
> If the latter, the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/TIA9> which discusses
> this method points out that bounce processing doesn't work for
> sub-list members. As to what you can do about it, if you have access
> to the list's aliases, and if the 'umbrella' lists have no members,
> you can change the alias for the 'umbrella-bounces' list to deliver to
> you (or to 'umbrella-owner') so you can handle the bounces manually.
> 
> The fact that the FAQ says "Note however, that currently (Mailman
> 2.1.12) bounce processing won't work in this case ..." would seem to
> imply that I intended to make it work in some future release, and I
> may yet do so.

Thank you Mark.  It is the latter method and I have changed the aliases to
point to my e-mail account.  This should work out just fine for what I am
after.

Jeff

From rclemings at gmail.com  Sun Jul 11 18:25:08 2010
From: rclemings at gmail.com (Russell Clemings)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 09:25:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] filtering based on message content
In-Reply-To: <PC195201007051116080718c322b296@msapiro>
References: <AANLkTikia-bKsacTW4zbHjX6NjRQBFQRMi6SDqQdWG2y@mail.gmail.com> 
	<PC195201007051116080718c322b296@msapiro>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin9D5ZwuKT6EXbCf1c5hqeyjn5CdYTFZtQKYMbc@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks. For the archives, this appears to work on a list named "testlist"
...

new file Mailman/Handlers/MyHandler.py:

import re
from Mailman import Errors
from Mailman.Handlers.Hold import hold_for_approval

class BadWords(Errors.HoldMessage):
   reason = 'Message has bad words'
   rejection = 'Your message contains forbidden words.'

BADWORDS = re.compile(r'(\W|^)word3(\W|$)|(\W|^)word6(\W|$)', re.I)

def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
   for part in msg.walk():
       if part.is_multipart():
           continue
       if BADWORDS.search(part.get_payload(decode=True)):
           hold_for_approval(mlist, msg, msgdata, BadWords)



new file lists/testlist/extend.py:

import copy
from Mailman import mm_cfg
def extend(mlist):
  mlist.pipeline = copy.copy(mm_cfg.GLOBAL_PIPELINE)
  # The next line inserts MyHandler ahead of Moderate.
  mlist.pipeline.insert(mlist.pipeline.index('Moderate'), 'MyHandler')

rac

On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Russell Clemings wrote:
>
> >I've had a request from the boss to filter incoming messages to some of
> our
> >lists based on the message content. Specifically, the request is to hold
> all
> >messages containing the third of George Carlin's seven words (and
> presumably
> >by extension also the sixth), which a couple of our subscribers seem to
> find
> >suitable for use in any context.
> >
> >My first thought, not contradicted by a quick FAQ search, was that there's
> >no way Mailman can do this on its own, at least without hacking core,
> >because it's not scanning the whole message.
>
>
> Yes, and no depending on what you mean by "hacking core" (or is that
> "hacking code"?).
>
> The relevant FAQ is <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>.
>
> The handler could be as simple as
>
> import re
> from Mailman import Errors
> from Mailman.Handlers.Hold import hold_for_approval
>
> class BadWords(Errors.HoldMessage):
>    reason = 'Message has bad words'
>    rejection = 'Your message has contains forbidden words.'
>
> BADWORDS = re.compile(r'(\W|^)word3(\W|$)|(\W|^)word6(\W|$)', re.I)
>
> def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
>    for part in msg.walk():
>        if part.is_multipart():
>            continue
>        if BADWORDS.search(part.get_payload(decode=True)):
>            hold_for_approval(mlist, msg, msgdata, BadWords)
>
>
>
> >My second thought was that Spam
> >Assassin could be set to flag the offending messages; Mailman is already
> set
> >to hold messages that have the spam flag set. But that seems like kind of
> a
> >kludge.
>
>
> Perhaps, but it is probably easier to manage.
>
>
> >Actually, I take that back. My first thought was to just ban the
> offenders.
> >But that's not going to fly.
>
>
> Too bad.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
============================================
Russell Clemings
<russell at clemings.com>
National Association of Science Writers cybrarian:
<cybrarian at nasw.org>
============================================

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jul 11 19:02:17 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 10:02:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] filtering based on message content
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin9D5ZwuKT6EXbCf1c5hqeyjn5CdYTFZtQKYMbc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520100711100217028168f07b2a@msapiro>

Russell Clemings wrote:
>
>Thanks. For the archives, this appears to work on a list named "testlist"
>...


Cool!


[...]
>new file lists/testlist/extend.py:
>
>import copy
>from Mailman import mm_cfg
>def extend(mlist):
>  mlist.pipeline = copy.copy(mm_cfg.GLOBAL_PIPELINE)
>  # The next line inserts MyHandler ahead of Moderate.
>  mlist.pipeline.insert(mlist.pipeline.index('Moderate'), 'MyHandler')


Perhaps you have thought this through and want this handler before
Moderate, but I would put it after with either

  mlist.pipeline.insert(mlist.pipeline.index('Moderate')+1, 'MyHandler')

or

  mlist.pipeline.insert(mlist.pipeline.index('Hold'), 'MyHandler')

My thinking is that with MyHandler before Moderate, a non-member post
can be held for 'bad words' before list membership is checked. Then if
the moderator decides the bad words hold is a false positive or should
be passed anyway, she may approve the post without realizing it's from
a non-member. The approved post will then bypass membership checks.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rclemings at gmail.com  Mon Jul 12 02:06:20 2010
From: rclemings at gmail.com (Russell Clemings)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 17:06:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] filtering based on message content
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100711100217028168f07b2a@msapiro>
References: <AANLkTin9D5ZwuKT6EXbCf1c5hqeyjn5CdYTFZtQKYMbc@mail.gmail.com> 
	<PC19520100711100217028168f07b2a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim-deUrYt7xMTa5b9o2j2S9XzRUCiEPWLxyxTp0@mail.gmail.com>

That makes sense; I'll change it.

One other question: Is there an easy way to make it fire on parts of words
as well as whole words? For example, I might want to catch "dig," "digger,"
"digging," etc. (Not to mention "motherdigger.")

And to answer your earlier question, my reference to "hacking core" simply
reflects the fact that I've been spend way too much time with Drupal lately.

rac

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Russell Clemings wrote:
> >
> >Thanks. For the archives, this appears to work on a list named "testlist"
> >...
>
>
> Cool!
>
>
> [...]
> >new file lists/testlist/extend.py:
> >
> >import copy
> >from Mailman import mm_cfg
> >def extend(mlist):
> >  mlist.pipeline = copy.copy(mm_cfg.GLOBAL_PIPELINE)
> >  # The next line inserts MyHandler ahead of Moderate.
> >  mlist.pipeline.insert(mlist.pipeline.index('Moderate'), 'MyHandler')
>
>
> Perhaps you have thought this through and want this handler before
> Moderate, but I would put it after with either
>
>  mlist.pipeline.insert(mlist.pipeline.index('Moderate')+1, 'MyHandler')
>
> or
>
>  mlist.pipeline.insert(mlist.pipeline.index('Hold'), 'MyHandler')
>
> My thinking is that with MyHandler before Moderate, a non-member post
> can be held for 'bad words' before list membership is checked. Then if
> the moderator decides the bad words hold is a false positive or should
> be passed anyway, she may approve the post without realizing it's from
> a non-member. The approved post will then bypass membership checks.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jul 12 03:11:58 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 18:11:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] filtering based on message content
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim-deUrYt7xMTa5b9o2j2S9XzRUCiEPWLxyxTp0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010071118115807657192e8f7@msapiro>

Russell Clemings wrote:
>
>One other question: Is there an easy way to make it fire on parts of words
>as well as whole words? For example, I might want to catch "dig," "digger,"
>"digging," etc. (Not to mention "motherdigger.")



You can do pretty much any matching you want. For example

  \b(mother)?dig(ger|ging)?\b

would match 'motherdig', 'motherdigger', 'motherdigging', 'dig',
'digger' or 'digging', but it wouldn't match 'diggery' because the \b
at the end of the regexp says "there must be a word boundary here"
where a word boundary is the begining or end of the line or a
transition from the set of letters, digits and underscore to something
else, whereas

  \b(mother)?dig(ger\B*|ging)?\b

would also match 'diggery' and 'diggers'. It gets somewhat tricky. You
could just match 'dig' regardless of what follows or precedes it with
the regexp

  dig

but then you also match 'digest', 'indigent' and so forth. I know that
'dig' isn't actually the word you're targeting, but the same problem
exists with most simple words.

See <http://docs.python.org/library/re.html#regular-expression-syntax>
or perhaps <http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596528126/>.

The original expression I gave you

BADWORDS = re.compile(r'(\W|^)word3(\W|$)|(\W|^)word6(\W|$)', re.I)

is a bit more complicated than it needs to be because (\W|^) and (\W|$)
could just as well be \b. Using the 'verbose' mode of regular
expressions that allows you to insert white space for readability, you
could have something like

BADWORDS = re.compile(r"""\bword3\b |
                          \bword6\b |
                          \b(mother)?dig(ger\B*|ging)\b
                        """, re.IGNORECASE | re.VERBOSE)

Then later you could decide to add \b(mother)?diggingest\b with minimal
editing like

BADWORDS = re.compile(r"""\bword3\b |
                          \bword6\b |
                          \b(mother)?diggingest\b |
                          \b(mother)?dig(ger\B*|ging)\b
                        """, re.IGNORECASE | re.VERBOSE)

Another way to do this is like

WORDLIST = [r'\bword3\b',
            r'\bword6\b',
            r'\b(mother)?diggingest\b',
            r'\b(mother)?dig(ger\B*|ging)\b',
           ]
BADWORDS = re.compile('|'.join(WORDLIST), re.IGNORECASE)

This just makes a list of simple regexps and then joins them with '|'
for the compiled re. In this case, re.VERBOSE isn't needed as we
introduce no insignificant white space.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From francwalter at gmx.de  Mon Jul 12 13:22:47 2010
From: francwalter at gmx.de (franc walter)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:22:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipient
	addressrejected:Userunknowninvirtualmailbox table
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100710170932039092326766@msapiro>
References: <PC19520100710170932039092326766@msapiro>
Message-ID: <179m3mhqq7fjw.dlg@news.7fw.de>

On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:09:32 -0700 you wrote:


> If this isn't clear to you, perhaps some of the documentation at
> <http://de.postfix.org/> will help.


So after all i did it like suggested earlier and without any
virtual_alias_maps.

I put in main.cf under mydestination all my virtual domains:

mydestination = lists.example2.org, lists.example2.org, lists.example3.org,
, ..., lists.examplen.org

and

alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases,hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases

and this is all. No virtual_alias_maps from mailman and no
VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN or POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS

Very simple and it is working.

The main reason why i didn't get it in one or two hours (or even in 10
Minutes) is, that i don't know much about Postfix.
Now i ordered a Book (in german) to read carefully about this and all this
virtual domain stuff.

I am closing this thread for myself now with a big "Thank you" to you both,
Mark and Geoff.
You were very patiently and helpful many, many times.

Lot of regards,

frank

From mailmanu-20100705 at billmail.scconsult.com  Sun Jul 11 19:56:29 2010
From: mailmanu-20100705 at billmail.scconsult.com (mailmanu-20100705 at billmail.scconsult.com)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 13:56:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Untangling an unruly jungle of lists
Message-ID: <4C3A05CD.6050005@billmail.scconsult.com>

I have been tasked with cleaning up a collection of 23 lists running on 
Mailman that have been administered and moderated by a customer's 
non-technical staff for some time (> 2 years) without much training or 
assistance. At the top of my task list is the elimination of duplicate 
messages, which appear to be happening through two mechanisms:

1. Manually sending one message to multiple lists which have overlapping 
memberships.
2. A misnamed "all-lists" announcement list whose membership included a 
dozen of the other lists (with overlapping memberships) plus a handful of 
individual users who also were subscribed to those lists.

It has been many years and versions since I've worked with Mailman in any 
significant way, so I feel like I need a sanity check on my repair plans.

I have started with what seems to me to be the obvious first step to address 
(2). I have removed all of the other lists as members of "all-lists" and 
added their addresses to regular_include_lists instead, and since all of the 
direct subscribers wee in one or more of the sub-lists, I've removed them as 
well. This has left me with 4 questions:

1. Am I correct in my understanding that regular_include_lists does a 
de-duplication of the aggregate of all included lists?

2. Are the direct subscribers to the parent list included in the 
de-duplication? In other words: could I have left the direct subscribers in 
place without causing duplicates?

3. Since regular_include_lists is part of the non-digest settings, what 
exactly does a member of one or more of the included lists who is set to 
digest mode get when the parent list is mailed?

4. Are there non-obvious aspects of the regular_include_lists feature that I 
should be aware of, i.e. anything that argues in favor of using a script to 
assemble and de-dupe a membership list for it instead?

To handle the mailings to arbitrary sets of overlapping lists, I gather that 
regular_exclude_lists is the tool to use, but I am not sure exactly how to 
build the configuration. I have a set of 21 lists that have some users in 
common with 2-17 others members of that set. To evade the complexity of that 
setup, I'm starting with a set of 4 that the customer has cited as 
particularly problematic, and I think what I need to do to get 
cross-mailings to arbitrary combinations of them de-duped I need something 
like these regular_exclude_lists:

list1: list2, list3, list4
list2: list3, list4
list3: list4
list4: (empty)

So, if I really want to de-dupe arbitrary cross-mailings between all 21 
lists that have common members, I'd have to put lists 2-21 in for list1, 
3-21 for list2, etc., and if the customer wants a new list that might 
overlap, it would need to get all of the existing lists in its 
regular_exclude_lists.  Ugh. The questions I have about this:

1. Is that config correct?

2. Is there any useful basis for ordering the 4 lists I am making siblings? 
Should I make the biggest one list1 and the shortest list4 or should I order 
them based on the degree of overlap  or something else?

3. Does setting regular_exclude_lists have any effect on how lists are 
handled as members of another list's regular_include_lists?

4. Has anyone devised an easier and less fragile approach? Maybe for Mailman 
3? What I'd like most is a simple setting to have Mailman look at each 
message for other lists in the same domain or handled by the same server and 
work out the de-dupe cascade itself as needed.

More broadly and philosophically, I am curious about how others handle 
similar list jungles. My first instinct is to decree that there shall be a 
sane hierarchy of parent lists with regular_include_lists such that there 
shall be no need to cross-post, but that seems a bit unrealistic at this 
point. Any helpful clues?


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jul 13 16:53:24 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 07:53:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Untangling an unruly jungle of lists
In-Reply-To: <4C3A05CD.6050005@billmail.scconsult.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201007130753240421f2fe077d@msapiro>

mailmanu-20100705 at billmail.scconsult.com wrote:
>This has left me with 4 questions:
>
>1. Am I correct in my understanding that regular_include_lists does a 
>de-duplication of the aggregate of all included lists?


Yes.


>2. Are the direct subscribers to the parent list included in the 
>de-duplication? In other words: could I have left the direct subscribers in 
>place without causing duplicates?


Yes.


>3. Since regular_include_lists is part of the non-digest settings, what 
>exactly does a member of one or more of the included lists who is set to 
>digest mode get when the parent list is mailed?


Nothing.


>4. Are there non-obvious aspects of the regular_include_lists feature that I 
>should be aware of, i.e. anything that argues in favor of using a script to 
>assemble and de-dupe a membership list for it instead?


Bounce processing currently doesn't work for members of the included
lists if a post from the the parent list to a member of an included
list bounces. This is fixed for 2.1.14 and the fix is committed at
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/revision/1250>.

As I answer above, digest members of included lists don't receive a
message at all. However if someone is a digest member of one included
list and a regular member of another included list, she will receive a
copy of a post to the parent.


>To handle the mailings to arbitrary sets of overlapping lists, I gather that 
>regular_exclude_lists is the tool to use, but I am not sure exactly how to 
>build the configuration. I have a set of 21 lists that have some users in 
>common with 2-17 others members of that set. To evade the complexity of that 
>setup, I'm starting with a set of 4 that the customer has cited as 
>particularly problematic, and I think what I need to do to get 
>cross-mailings to arbitrary combinations of them de-duped I need something 
>like these regular_exclude_lists:
>
>list1: list2, list3, list4
>list2: list3, list4
>list3: list4
>list4: (empty)


I think that is correct.


>So, if I really want to de-dupe arbitrary cross-mailings between all 21 
>lists that have common members, I'd have to put lists 2-21 in for list1, 
>3-21 for list2, etc., and if the customer wants a new list that might 
>overlap, it would need to get all of the existing lists in its 
>regular_exclude_lists.  Ugh. The questions I have about this:
>
>1. Is that config correct?


Yes, I think so.


>2. Is there any useful basis for ordering the 4 lists I am making siblings? 
>Should I make the biggest one list1 and the shortest list4 or should I order 
>them based on the degree of overlap  or something else?


I don't think it matters in any significant way. However, the addition
of a list is simplified if you add it to the "top" as that won't
require changing the other lists.


>3. Does setting regular_exclude_lists have any effect on how lists are 
>handled as members of another list's regular_include_lists?


No.


>4. Has anyone devised an easier and less fragile approach? Maybe for Mailman 
>3? What I'd like most is a simple setting to have Mailman look at each 
>message for other lists in the same domain or handled by the same server and 
>work out the de-dupe cascade itself as needed.
>
>More broadly and philosophically, I am curious about how others handle 
>similar list jungles. My first instinct is to decree that there shall be a 
>sane hierarchy of parent lists with regular_include_lists such that there 
>shall be no need to cross-post, but that seems a bit unrealistic at this 
>point. Any helpful clues?


I have an installation where there is a large, general list and a few
smaller, more specific lists. I have the more specific lists in
regular_exclude_lists of the general lists.

This generally works OK, but there are some issues.

One person who is a member of multiple lists wants the duplicates. The
solution here was to subscribe to the different lists with 'variant'
addresses. This may not work for MM 3 depending on how this feature is
implemented there.

A more serious problem is when list1 excludes list2 and someone who is
a member of only list1, does a 'reply all' to a cross-posted message
and this reply is rejected by list2 as a non-member post. In this case
members of both list1 and list2 do not receive the reply. They don't
receive it from list1 because they are members of list2 and they don't
receive it from list2 because it was rejected by list2. For this
reason, I implemented a setting "regular_exclude_ignore, Ignore
regular_exlude_lists of which the poster is not a member." This
doesn't address other possible reasons why a post might not be
accepted by list2, but it does address the most common one, although
it can result in duplicates if the non-member post is actually
accepted by list2.

This setting is not implemented on the 2.1 branch for i18n reasons, but
it is available on the branch at
<https://code.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.2> which is
essentially the 2.1 branch with the addition of a few features that
won't be in 2.1, mostly for i18n reasons.
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Sat Jul 17 11:21:18 2010
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 09:21:18 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] move list to another domain
Message-ID: <COL105-W204CE5FB0F834B3919DB7EFBBD0@phx.gbl>


Hi,

 

I have several lists on doimain1.com on the server.. I added a new account with a different domain name (Domain2) on the same server.. how can I move the lists to the new domain and delete the old one? is it simply by chaging the 'Host name this list prefers for email' option in General settings ??

 

Thanks..
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection.
https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969

From pc2a at pi4cc.nl  Sat Jul 17 14:45:41 2010
From: pc2a at pi4cc.nl (Peter)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 14:45:41 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Icons
Message-ID: <4C41A5F5.8060605@pi4cc.nl>

Hi

I have Debian (stable) running with Apache 2.2.9 and Mailmain 2.1.11
I can't see the Icons at the footer
I looked at the FAQ 
http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030628
But this old information

A search tells that Apache icons are at /usr/share/apache2/icons
The mailman icons are at /usr/share/images/mailman

A copy of the mailman icons to the Apache2 dir doesn't show the images 
at the footer.

What is the solution?

Peter

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jul 17 15:36:15 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 06:36:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] move list to another domain
In-Reply-To: <COL105-W204CE5FB0F834B3919DB7EFBBD0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC195201007170636150265d594f318@msapiro>

Khalil Abbas wrote:
>
>
>I have several lists on doimain1.com on the server.. I added a new account
>with a different domain name (Domain2) on the same server.. how can I move
>the lists to the new domain and delete the old one? is it simply by chaging
>the 'Host name this list prefers for email' option in General settings ??


That will change the email domain but not the web domain. To do the
complete job, See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/gIA9> and don't
forget the section "Existing versus new lists".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Sat Jul 17 15:40:12 2010
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 14:40:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Icons
In-Reply-To: <4C41A5F5.8060605@pi4cc.nl>
References: <4C41A5F5.8060605@pi4cc.nl>
Message-ID: <20100717134012.GR28385@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 02:45:41PM +0200, Peter wrote:
> Hi
>
> I have Debian (stable) running with Apache 2.2.9 and Mailmain 2.1.11
> I can't see the Icons at the footer
>
> A search tells that Apache icons are at /usr/share/apache2/icons
> The mailman icons are at /usr/share/images/mailman
>
> A copy of the mailman icons to the Apache2 dir doesn't show the images  
> at the footer.
>
> What is the solution?

*A* solution is to Include /etc/mailman/apache.conf, or bastardize it to
suit your needs (the latter I do)

Pertinently,

    # Logos:
    Alias /images/mailman/ /usr/share/images/mailman/

is what you're probably looking for.

(and note the settings in mm_cfg.py for IMAGE_LOGOS)

Remember to 'graceful' Apache after making changes to the apache
config, and restarting Mailman after making changes there.

-- 
The computer is only a tool. Unfortunately, so is the user.
 (seen on the internet)

From dave.lists at nathanson.org  Sun Jul 18 04:10:46 2010
From: dave.lists at nathanson.org (Dave Nathanson)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 19:10:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Scrubbing attachments only if over size limit -
	Umbrella list
Message-ID: <7BE07D4F-E303-4E94-82F7-F62D6E8DB60C@nathanson.org>

I've spent almost 2 whole days reading the MailMan FAQ, Googleing and  
testing theories/methods with a set of test-lists. I am using MailMan  
2.1.12 installed at DreamHost.com. I do not have root access. Although  
I can ssh into the server, I'm not good at writing shell scripts.  
Sorry if this looks long or wordy, I'm trying to give enough info to  
get some help.

What I am trying to do is allow list members to post plain text, or  
html messages, and attachments up to a set size. Any attachments  
larger than that size, I'd like to be scrubbed and a link url inserted  
so the list members don't have to download some stupid cat video just  
to unclog their mail delivery, but those who love cat videos can just  
click the link and get it.

I understand the attachment scrubbing feature. It is useful. But it  
will only scrub ALL messages not just those over a certain size. And  
it takes out the html that people are using so much more than they  
used to. Ideally, I would love to have the attachment scrubbing  
feature operate only on messages larger than a certain size. That  
would solve my entire problem.

One of the lists I admin includes decidedly non-technical people who  
think nothing of forwarding 12 mb attachments. They don't understand  
why this is not allowed, and I'm getting tired of explaining it again.  
These same people are not interested (or capable) of uploading their  
large attachment to a server and emailing a link to the list. So I'm  
trying to help them, but without relaying huge attachments to the list.

So after much reading, I got the idea of using an umbrella list set to  
scrub attachments to give users the option of sending their huge  
attachments and it will auto-generate a link. Lovely. But I'm not  
having success in implementation. Perhaps you can help me with this.

I made 2 MailMan lists:

* regular_list  (restricted by size less than 2 mb). Has membership.
* big_list (no size restriction), set to scrub attachments. No  
members, should send to/from the members of the regular list. Set to  
be an umbrella list.

THEORY:
The way I expect this to work is the list member will send his huge  
attachment to the regular_list, it bounces back, and tells him to try  
sending it to the big_list instead. This ought to scrub the  
attachment, leaving a URL instead, and lets the msg continue to the  
regular_list where it will now be well under the size restriction and  
pass through to all the members of regular_list.

Am I on track?
I just want 2 lists, with the exact same membership list, one to scrub  
attachments, and the other to reject oversize attachments. Both should  
only accept postings from list members.

The problem is that the regular_list is not accepting messages  
addressed to the big_list. I searched the list archives and found some  
interesting info, but maybe I've read so much that I can't see or  
think straight anymore. I read the articles:
3.5. What is an Umbrella list - and why doesn't it do what I want?
3.69. How do I set up an umbrella list?

But I have not been successful in getting the umbrella list concept to  
work.

What is the trick? Is this possible? Is there a better way? What needs  
to be typed where?

Thanks,
  Dave


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jul 18 16:19:23 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 07:19:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Scrubbing attachments only if over size limit
	-Umbrella list
In-Reply-To: <7BE07D4F-E303-4E94-82F7-F62D6E8DB60C@nathanson.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201007180719230312812af4cf@msapiro>

Dave Nathanson wrote:
>
>I made 2 MailMan lists:
>
>* regular_list  (restricted by size less than 2 mb). Has membership.
>* big_list (no size restriction), set to scrub attachments. No  
>members, should send to/from the members of the regular list. Set to  
>be an umbrella list.
>
>THEORY:
>The way I expect this to work is the list member will send his huge  
>attachment to the regular_list, it bounces back, and tells him to try  
>sending it to the big_list instead. This ought to scrub the  
>attachment, leaving a URL instead, and lets the msg continue to the  
>regular_list where it will now be well under the size restriction and  
>pass through to all the members of regular_list.
>
>Am I on track?


Yes.


>I just want 2 lists, with the exact same membership list, one to scrub  
>attachments, and the other to reject oversize attachments. Both should  
>only accept postings from list members.
>
>The problem is that the regular_list is not accepting messages  
>addressed to the big_list.


Why? If they are held for "implicit destination", you need to put the
big_list address in Privacy options... -> Recipient filters ->
acceptable_aliases or turn off require_explicit_destination on the
same page. This is covered in FAQ 3.69. If they are held for some
other reason, what is the reason.


Also, do both lists actually have the same membership (presumably with
delivery disabled for the big_list members) or do you have
'@regular_list' in accept_these_nonmembers of big_list?

If the latter, that is fine, and you should be able to have the
umbrella work the way you want with only regular_list as an actual
member.

If you are actually syncing the membership of big_list with
regular_list (which you can do easily with a shell script if you have
permission), and you don't mind having big_list posts come to the
members from big_list, you could forget the umbrella idea and have
big_list deliver directly to the members?

To sync the membership you can use the pipe

 bin/list_members -f regular_list | bin/sync_members -f - big_list

The problem with this is that new digest members of regular_list become
regular members of big_list

You'd probably actually want to add "-w=no -g=no" to the sync_members
options too. See "bin/list_members --help" and "bin/sync_members
--help"

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mary.y.wang at boeing.com  Mon Jul 19 19:03:06 2010
From: mary.y.wang at boeing.com (Wang, Mary Y)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:03:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to configure Mailman to receive/send
 Outlook encrypted email messages?
Message-ID: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC0458B6A0CF@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>

Hi,
Is it possible to configure Mailman to receive/send Outlook encrypted email messages?


Thanks
Mary



From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jul 19 19:40:49 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:40:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to configure Mailman to
	receive/sendOutlook encrypted email messages?
In-Reply-To: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC0458B6A0CF@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201007191040490109d24e665e@msapiro>

Wang, Mary Y wrote:

>Is it possible to configure Mailman to receive/send Outlook encrypted email messages?


If you mean to decrypt an incoming message encrypted with a list's key
and then to re-encrypt each outgoing message with the recipient's key,
no such capability exists in the standard distribution, but there is a
patch at <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558189> which may be
of interest to you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From etorres at dap.es  Tue Jul 20 09:49:25 2010
From: etorres at dap.es (Esteban Torres)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 09:49:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delivery limitation there users?
Message-ID: <20100720094925.71eeaa8a.etorres@dap.es>


I have configured a list of 150 members and everything works fine.

Now I want to create another list with 1885 members. I have to change something in the configuration of mailman?

There is some limitation in the default configuration of mailman to deliver as many members?

In the configuration of postfix I have:

smtpd_recipient_limit = 2700

I must be careful with anything?


Thanks

From odhiambo at gmail.com  Tue Jul 20 10:58:56 2010
From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:58:56 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delivery limitation there users?
In-Reply-To: <20100720094925.71eeaa8a.etorres@dap.es>
References: <20100720094925.71eeaa8a.etorres@dap.es>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikgci4bDUBQFbLPVPVN5XJovnahIOqDQF4sz8XP@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Esteban Torres <etorres at dap.es> wrote:
>
> I have configured a list of 150 members and everything works fine.
>
> Now I want to create another list with 1885 members. I have to change something in the configuration of mailman?
>
> There is some limitation in the default configuration of mailman to deliver as many members?

None.

>
> In the configuration of postfix I have:
>
> smtpd_recipient_limit = 2700
>
> I must be careful with anything?
>

Just postfix side is what you need to check. Mailman by default
doesn't have limits imposed on SMTP connections, IIRC.

For Mailman, you can also tune the following variables in mm_cfg.py:

SMTP_MAX_RCPTS
SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION

Check Defaults.py for what they do.


-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254733744121/+254722743223
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"If you have nothing good to say about someone, just shut up!."
? ? ? ? ? ? ?? -- Lucky Dube

From etorres at dap.es  Tue Jul 20 11:21:17 2010
From: etorres at dap.es (Esteban Torres)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:21:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delivery limitation there users?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikgci4bDUBQFbLPVPVN5XJovnahIOqDQF4sz8XP@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100720094925.71eeaa8a.etorres@dap.es>
	<AANLkTikgci4bDUBQFbLPVPVN5XJovnahIOqDQF4sz8XP@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100720112117.00aaa4a5.etorres@dap.es>

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:58:56 +0300
Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Esteban Torres <etorres at dap.es> wrote:
> >
> > I have configured a list of 150 members and everything works fine.
> >
> > Now I want to create another list with 1885 members. I have to change something in the configuration of mailman?
> >
> > There is some limitation in the default configuration of mailman to deliver as many members?
> 
> None.
> 
> >
> > In the configuration of postfix I have:
> >
> > smtpd_recipient_limit = 2700
> >
> > I must be careful with anything?
> >
> 
> Just postfix side is what you need to check. Mailman by default
> doesn't have limits imposed on SMTP connections, IIRC.
> 
> For Mailman, you can also tune the following variables in mm_cfg.py:
> 
> SMTP_MAX_RCPTS
> SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION
> 
> Check Defaults.py for what they do.

My Defaults.py:

SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500
SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION = 0

configure SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 2700?

Thanks.

> 
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
> Nairobi,KE
> +254733744121/+254722743223
> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
> "If you have nothing good to say about someone, just shut up!."
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? -- Lucky Dube



From odhiambo at gmail.com  Tue Jul 20 11:28:40 2010
From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 12:28:40 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delivery limitation there users?
In-Reply-To: <20100720112117.00aaa4a5.etorres@dap.es>
References: <20100720094925.71eeaa8a.etorres@dap.es>
	<AANLkTikgci4bDUBQFbLPVPVN5XJovnahIOqDQF4sz8XP@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20100720112117.00aaa4a5.etorres@dap.es>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimv-u_TWBLfYQ23dGfhNxQbxqr-EeCIRxZdzcU5@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Esteban Torres <etorres at dap.es> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:58:56 +0300
> Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Esteban Torres <etorres at dap.es> wrote:
>> >
>> > I have configured a list of 150 members and everything works fine.
>> >
>> > Now I want to create another list with 1885 members. I have to change something in the configuration of mailman?
>> >
>> > There is some limitation in the default configuration of mailman to deliver as many members?
>>
>> None.
>>
>> >
>> > In the configuration of postfix I have:
>> >
>> > smtpd_recipient_limit = 2700
>> >
>> > I must be careful with anything?
>> >
>>
>> Just postfix side is what you need to check. Mailman by default
>> doesn't have limits imposed on SMTP connections, IIRC.
>>
>> For Mailman, you can also tune the following variables in mm_cfg.py:
>>
>> SMTP_MAX_RCPTS
>> SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION
>>
>> Check Defaults.py for what they do.
>
> My Defaults.py:
>
> SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500
> SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION = 0
>
> configure SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 2700?

I think you can leave it as it is or just bump it a bit. Leaving it as
it is means Mailman will do 6 runs for your list. If you make it 900,
then three runs. However, I think 6 runs is still fine. The comments
in Defaults.py don't say what is the time interval between the
transactions. I wish it said.

-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254733744121/+254722743223
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"If you have nothing good to say about someone, just shut up!."
? ? ? ? ? ? ?? -- Lucky Dube

From brian at emwd.com  Tue Jul 20 12:46:33 2010
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 06:46:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Encoding Error in Mailman
Message-ID: <001d01cb27f8$d37edb30$7a7c9190$@com>

Hi All:

Hope everyone is having a nice summer.

Yesterday I had a UK client have two messages from two different posters
shunted for the following reason:

Jul 19 05:24:03 2010 (28056) Uncaught runner exception: windows-1252
Jul 19 05:24:03 2010 (28056) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line
120, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line
191, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/OutgoingRunner.py",
line 74, in _dispose
    self._func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py",
line 132, in process
    Decorate.process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Decorate.py",
line 133, in process
    msg.set_payload(payload, newcset)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/email/Message.py", line 218, in set_payload
    self.set_charset(charset)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/email/Message.py", line 242, in set_charset
    raise TypeError(charset)
TypeError: windows-1252

Jul 19 05:46:50 2010 (28056) Uncaught runner exception: iso-8859-1
Jul 19 05:46:50 2010 (28056) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line
120, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line
191, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/OutgoingRunner.py",
line 74, in _dispose
    self._func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py",
line 132, in process
    Decorate.process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Decorate.py",
line 133, in process
    msg.set_payload(payload, newcset)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/email/Message.py", line 218, in set_payload
    self.set_charset(charset)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/email/Message.py", line 242, in set_charset
    raise TypeError(charset)
TypeError: iso-8859-1

Looking at the error log, the above type of error message is VERY rare
however it is strange that I had two of these show up within a close time of
each other. The question that I have is does the above error message
indicate a problem going on with the mailman server or was there an issue
going on with the posters' email formatting?

Thanks for any insight into this problem.

Regards,
Brian Carpenter
EMWD.com

--------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.emwd.com/
Curious comments from a web hosting techie



From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jul 20 16:16:12 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 07:16:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delivery limitation there users?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimv-u_TWBLfYQ23dGfhNxQbxqr-EeCIRxZdzcU5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100720094925.71eeaa8a.etorres@dap.es>	<AANLkTikgci4bDUBQFbLPVPVN5XJovnahIOqDQF4sz8XP@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100720112117.00aaa4a5.etorres@dap.es>
	<AANLkTimv-u_TWBLfYQ23dGfhNxQbxqr-EeCIRxZdzcU5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C45AFAC.8060908@msapiro.net>

On 7/20/2010 2:28 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Esteban Torres <etorres at dap.es> wrote:
>>
>> configure SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 2700?
> 
> I think you can leave it as it is or just bump it a bit. Leaving it as
> it is means Mailman will do 6 runs for your list. If you make it 900,
> then three runs. However, I think 6 runs is still fine. The comments
> in Defaults.py don't say what is the time interval between the
> transactions. I wish it said.


Don't increase SMTP_MAX_RCPTS. 500 is way big enough. You won't gain
anything by making it larger.

As far as time between transactions is concerned, There is no
intentional time delay. Mailman delivers to the MTA as fast as the MTA
responds.

Mailman breaks the recipient list into chunks which are never bigger
than SMTP_MAX_RCPTS, but may be smaller because it also chunks by top
level domain. If there are settings like VERP or personalization, the
chunks may be only one recipient each. It then opens a connection to the
MTA and delivers one chunk per transaction as fast as the MTA responds.
If SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION is > 0 and less than the number of
chunks, it will close and re-open the connection after that many
transactions, and finally will close the connection when done.

Since each transaction sends the entire message body, there is a
performance advantage to having more recipients per chunk, and thus
fewer chunks/transactions, but beyond a chunk size of well under 100,
there is negligible gain.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jul 20 16:44:51 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 07:44:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Encoding Error in Mailman
In-Reply-To: <001d01cb27f8$d37edb30$7a7c9190$@com>
Message-ID: <PC195201007200744510546f42aa595@msapiro>

Brian Carpenter wrote:
>
>Yesterday I had a UK client have two messages from two different posters
>shunted for the following reason:
>
>Jul 19 05:24:03 2010 (28056) Uncaught runner exception: windows-1252
>Jul 19 05:24:03 2010 (28056) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line
>120, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line
>191, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/OutgoingRunner.py",
>line 74, in _dispose
>    self._func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py",
>line 132, in process
>    Decorate.process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Decorate.py",
>line 133, in process
>    msg.set_payload(payload, newcset)
>  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/email/Message.py", line 218, in set_payload
>    self.set_charset(charset)
>  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/email/Message.py", line 242, in set_charset
>    raise TypeError(charset)
>TypeError: windows-1252
[...]
>
>Looking at the error log, the above type of error message is VERY rare
>however it is strange that I had two of these show up within a close time of
>each other. The question that I have is does the above error message
>indicate a problem going on with the mailman server or was there an issue
>going on with the posters' email formatting?


There is a bug in certain versions of the Python email package. This
TypeError occurs because in the call to set_charset, the argument in
this case is a unicode u'windows-1252' instead of a string
'windows-1252'.

See the bug report at <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/328353>,
particularly the patch at comment #11 which I think will fix this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From aepstein at fmams.org.il  Wed Jul 21 11:12:05 2010
From: aepstein at fmams.org.il (Alison Epstein)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:12:05 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is Mailman right for us?
Message-ID: <8635A824-E253-48F6-922A-ABF3F5564E45@fmams.org.il>

Hello,

We're considering using Mailman for our organization's listservs. But  
I'm having trouble finding a demo to try or some screen snapshots so  
that I can even determine if this is the right software for us.

I need something for our discussion lists. (We also have announce-only  
lists.)

The discussion lists ideally would have an archive that is accessible.

Also, some of our lists need to have the ability to have multiple  
"moderators / posters" who may or may not be list subscribers. For  
instance, we have staff in Jerusalem & Chicago. We have mailing lists  
for each office, but all staff members can post to either list. For  
example: A Jerusalem staff member can send a message that only the  
Chicago staff will receive.

Can you point me to a demo to try or a good place to find these answers?

Thanks so much in advance,
Alison Epstein


----------------------------------

Sign up for The Melton Israel Seminar - The Ultimate On-Site Learning  
Experience

Alison Epstein
FMAMS web-content coordinator
aepstein at fmams.org.il

416-638-2475 North American VoIP phone
815-346-2644 North American fax
052-569-7945 Israeli cell phone
(08) 946-1472 Israeli land line
skype: alitraeps

Summer Israel Time (GMT+3)



From mboudreau at press.uchicago.edu  Wed Jul 21 17:23:02 2010
From: mboudreau at press.uchicago.edu (Michael R Boudreau)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:23:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Merging two lists
In-Reply-To: <PC187020090128155909076589a84c06@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C86C7B06.85AE%mboudrea@uchicago.edu>

Hi all,

I need to merge List A into List B. My plan is to run list_members on both lists and use the Unix 'uniq' tool to find the members of List A who are not already in List B. Then I'll use the web interface's mass subscription page to add the members from List A to List B.

Following that, I'll run rmlist on List A without deleting its archives.

However, ideally I'd like to make the archives of Lists A and B available in one place to all the members of the new expanded List B.

Any suggestions?


--
Michael R. Boudreau
Senior Publishing Technology Analyst
The University of Chicago Press
1427 E. 60th Street
Chicago, IL 60637
(773) 753-3298  fax: (773) 753-3383


From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Wed Jul 21 17:40:56 2010
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:40:56 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is Mailman right for us?
In-Reply-To: <8635A824-E253-48F6-922A-ABF3F5564E45@fmams.org.il>
References: <8635A824-E253-48F6-922A-ABF3F5564E45@fmams.org.il>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.64.1007211035250.71495@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010, Alison Epstein wrote:

> We're considering using Mailman for our organization's listservs. But I'm

I'll save Mark the trouble of dealing with this part. Listserv (capital L) 
is the trademarked name of a "competing" mailing list managment product. 
It is not a generic term for a mailing list or mailing list management 
software. The word should generally not be used on this list.

> having trouble finding a demo to try or some screen snapshots so that I can 
> even determine if this is the right software for us.
>
> I need something for our discussion lists. (We also have announce-only 
> lists.)
>
> The discussion lists ideally would have an archive that is accessible.
>
> Also, some of our lists need to have the ability to have multiple "moderators 
> / posters" who may or may not be list subscribers. For instance, we have 
> staff in Jerusalem & Chicago. We have mailing lists for each office, but all 
> staff members can post to either list. For example: A Jerusalem staff member 
> can send a message that only the Chicago staff will receive.
>
> Can you point me to a demo to try or a good place to find these answers?

Mailman can do all that. There is no demo version because Mailman is a 
free product. Install it and see if it does what you need it to do.

The FAQ (a link to it is at the bottom of every message on this list) can 
answer a lot of your questions including some HOW-TOs and installation 
guides.

-- Larry Stone
    lstone19 at stonejongleux.com

From athomps at adf.org  Wed Jul 21 17:52:56 2010
From: athomps at adf.org (Anthony R. Thompson)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:52:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is Mailman right for us?
Message-ID: <4C4717D8.70006@adf.org>

On 7/21/2010 5:12 AM, Alison Epstein wrote:
> We're considering using Mailman for our organization's listservs. But 
> I'm having trouble finding a demo to try or some screen snapshots so 
> that I can even determine if this is the right software for us.
> 
> I need something for our discussion lists. (We also have announce-only 
> lists.)
> 
> The discussion lists ideally would have an archive that is accessible.
> 
> Also, some of our lists need to have the ability to have multiple 
> "moderators / posters" who may or may not be list subscribers. For 
> instance, we have staff in Jerusalem & Chicago. We have mailing lists 
> for each office, but all staff members can post to either list. For 
> example: A Jerusalem staff member can send a message that only the 
> Chicago staff will receive.

Alison, I can say that Mailman can do what you describe (I'm sure others
can too :)

I just converted 71 lists (a few announcement lists and the rest
discussion) from Listserv to Mailman and so far everything went smoothly.

(If you're doing a similar conversion you can see some documentation I
wrote on this at http://blog.anthonyrthompson.com/listserv-to-mailman/)

Our biggest announcement list has about 1500 people on it and a few of
our bigger discussion lists have between 500 and 1000 people on them.

Yes Mailman comes with archives built in.  If you want to enable
searching you'll have to do that as an add on but there's documentation
out there on doing that (a lot of people, my org included, use swish).

I don't know if I can set up a demo for you, or if there are screen
shots, but if no one else knows of anything I might be able to do some
screenshots for you if you contact me offlist about what you'd want to see.

~Anthony


From brian at emwd.com  Wed Jul 21 17:55:13 2010
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:55:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is Mailman right for us?
In-Reply-To: <8635A824-E253-48F6-922A-ABF3F5564E45@fmams.org.il>
References: <8635A824-E253-48F6-922A-ABF3F5564E45@fmams.org.il>
Message-ID: <012001cb28ed$1c5b3250$551196f0$@com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-
> bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Alison Epstein
> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 5:12 AM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is Mailman right for us?
> 
> Hello,
> 
> We're considering using Mailman for our organization's listservs. But
> I'm having trouble finding a demo to try or some screen snapshots so
> that I can even determine if this is the right software for us.
> 
> I need something for our discussion lists. (We also have announce-only
> lists.)
> 
> The discussion lists ideally would have an archive that is accessible.
> 
> Also, some of our lists need to have the ability to have multiple
> "moderators / posters" who may or may not be list subscribers. For
> instance, we have staff in Jerusalem & Chicago. We have mailing lists
> for each office, but all staff members can post to either list. For
> example: A Jerusalem staff member can send a message that only the
> Chicago staff will receive.
> 
> Can you point me to a demo to try or a good place to find these answers?
> 
> Thanks so much in advance,
> Alison Epstein
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------
> 
> Sign up for The Melton Israel Seminar - The Ultimate On-Site Learning
> Experience
> 
> Alison Epstein
> FMAMS web-content coordinator
> aepstein at fmams.org.il

Hi Alison:

Mailman includes archiving that can be set for public or private viewing.
You can also setup non-members to have the ability to post to a list that
they are not a member of. Mailman also supports multiple moderators.

We have some screenshots of mailman setup at
http://www.emwd.com/mailman_screenshots/.

I am not sure if you are planning on setting this up in-house but I would
like to invite you to view our mailman service at
http://www.emwd.com/mailman.html. Please let me know if we can be of service
to your organization. If you would like we could setup a demo list for you
to try out.

Have a great day.

Regards,
Brian Carpenter
EMWD.com
Mailmanhost.com



From athomps at adf.org  Wed Jul 21 18:11:32 2010
From: athomps at adf.org (Anthony R. Thompson)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:11:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Merging two lists
In-Reply-To: <C86C7B06.85AE%mboudrea@uchicago.edu>
References: <C86C7B06.85AE%mboudrea@uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <4C471C34.5030600@adf.org>

On 7/21/2010 11:23 AM, Michael R Boudreau wrote:
> I need to merge List A into List B. My plan is to run list_members
> on both lists and use the Unix 'uniq' tool to find the members of
> List A who are not already in List B. Then I'll use the web
> interface's mass subscription page to add the members from List A
> to List B.

Depending on how lazy you want to be, I'm guessing you might be able to 
just take the member list from List A and mass subscribe it to List B.

I think Mailman would just complain about the people who are already 
subscribed to List B and then process the rest.  Though I haven't tried 
this.

I tried playing around with uniq (and two dummy files) and it might do 
what you want but the results weren't intuitive to me.

I hacked together a script a few years ago to compare two files and say 
which lines are just in file A, just in file B, or in both; it's at 
http://blog.anthonyrthompson.com/listserv-to-mailman/code/utils/filecomplines

> Following that, I'll run rmlist on List A without deleting its archives.
> However, ideally I'd like to make the archives of Lists A and B available
> in one place to all the members of the new expanded List B.

If it was me, I'd just remove all the subscribers from List A, add a 
dummy subscriber account set with delivery off and mod on, and then give 
out the dummy account and its password to the folks on List B for 
archive access.

~Anthony


From cpz at tuunq.com  Wed Jul 21 17:42:21 2010
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 08:42:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is Mailman right for us?
In-Reply-To: <8635A824-E253-48F6-922A-ABF3F5564E45@fmams.org.il>
References: <8635A824-E253-48F6-922A-ABF3F5564E45@fmams.org.il>
Message-ID: <4C47155D.5040704@tuunq.com>

On 7/21/2010 2:12 AM, Alison Epstein wrote:
> We're considering using Mailman for our organization's listservs. But I'm
> having trouble finding a demo to try or some screen snapshots so that I can
> even determine if this is the right software for us.

There is no demo, but since it's free, all you have to do is download and 
install it.  Also "listserv" is a trademark of another mailing list manager 
(MLM), please don't use it to generically refer to a mailing list.

> I need something for our discussion lists. (We also have announce-only lists.)
> The discussion lists ideally would have an archive that is accessible.
> Also, some of our lists need to have the ability to have multiple
> "moderators / posters" who may or may not be list subscribers.
Got all that.

Check out the FAQ for some of these answers-
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3

z!

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jul 21 18:18:34 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:18:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Merging two lists
In-Reply-To: <C86C7B06.85AE%mboudrea@uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <PC195201007210918340250a12c15dc@msapiro>

Michael R Boudreau wrote:
>
>I need to merge List A into List B. My plan is to run list_members on both lists and use the Unix 'uniq' tool to find the members of List A who are not already in List B. Then I'll use the web interface's mass subscription page to add the members from List A to List B.


Or you could just concatenate the List A and List B list_members output
and use that as input to bin/sync_members ListB.

See bin/sync_members --help for usage. Note if you use '-f' on
list_members for List A, the real names will be added too.


>Following that, I'll run rmlist on List A without deleting its archives.
>
>However, ideally I'd like to make the archives of Lists A and B available in one place to all the members of the new expanded List B.


Concatenate the archives/private/lista.mbox/lista.mbox and
archives/private/listb.mbox/listb.mbox files to make a new combined
archives/private/listb.mbox/listb.mbox and then run

 bin/arch --wipe listb

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From aepstein at fmams.org.il  Thu Jul 22 07:49:57 2010
From: aepstein at fmams.org.il (Alison Epstein)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:49:57 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is Mailman right for us?
In-Reply-To: <8635A824-E253-48F6-922A-ABF3F5564E45@fmams.org.il>
References: <8635A824-E253-48F6-922A-ABF3F5564E45@fmams.org.il>
Message-ID: <55337712-1B8D-4025-9F0F-7C9AA3904987@fmams.org.il>

Wow!

Thanks to everyone who wrote back. I found the responses very helpful,  
and it sounds like it could be workable for our needs.

Thanks again everyone, and I'm sure I'll be back with more questions.

Alison

P.S. I normally spell it list-serv, but was feeling lazy yesterday, so  
I skipped the hyphen. Just curious: What "generic" name do people on  
this list-serv use for "Frisbee"?

----------------------------------

Sign up for The Melton Israel Seminar - The Ultimate On-Site Learning  
Experience

Alison Epstein
FMAMS web-content coordinator
aepstein at fmams.org.il

416-638-2475 North American VoIP phone
815-346-2644 North American fax
052-569-7945 Israeli cell phone
(08) 946-1472 Israeli land line
skype: alitraeps

Summer Israel Time (GMT+3)


On 21-Jul-10, at 12:12 PM, Alison Epstein wrote:

> Hello,
>
> We're considering using Mailman for our organization's listservs.  
> But I'm having trouble finding a demo to try or some screen  
> snapshots so that I can even determine if this is the right software  
> for us.
>
> I need something for our discussion lists. (We also have announce- 
> only lists.)
>
> The discussion lists ideally would have an archive that is accessible.
>
> Also, some of our lists need to have the ability to have multiple  
> "moderators / posters" who may or may not be list subscribers. For  
> instance, we have staff in Jerusalem & Chicago. We have mailing  
> lists for each office, but all staff members can post to either  
> list. For example: A Jerusalem staff member can send a message that  
> only the Chicago staff will receive.
>
> Can you point me to a demo to try or a good place to find these  
> answers?
>
> Thanks so much in advance,
> Alison Epstein
>
>
> ----------------------------------
>
> Sign up for The Melton Israel Seminar - The Ultimate On-Site  
> Learning Experience
>
> Alison Epstein
> FMAMS web-content coordinator
> aepstein at fmams.org.il
>
> 416-638-2475 North American VoIP phone
> 815-346-2644 North American fax
> 052-569-7945 Israeli cell phone
> (08) 946-1472 Israeli land line
> skype: alitraeps
>
> Summer Israel Time (GMT+3)
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/aepstein%40fmams.org.il
>


From barry at list.org  Thu Jul 22 18:19:17 2010
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:19:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Icons
In-Reply-To: <20100717134012.GR28385@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
References: <4C41A5F5.8060605@pi4cc.nl>
	<20100717134012.GR28385@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <20100722181917.69193def@snowdog>

On Jul 17, 2010, at 02:40 PM, Adam McGreggor wrote:

>    # Logos:
>    Alias /images/mailman/ /usr/share/images/mailman/

For Ubuntu 10.04 (haven't checked Debian), it looks like this is a better
alias:

Alias /doc/mailman/images/ /usr/share/images/mailman/

-Barry
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From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jul 23 03:35:02 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:35:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is Mailman right for us?
In-Reply-To: <55337712-1B8D-4025-9F0F-7C9AA3904987@fmams.org.il>
Message-ID: <PC1952010072218350202501635f43c@msapiro>

Alison Epstein wrote:
>
>P.S. I normally spell it list-serv, but was feeling lazy yesterday, so  
>I skipped the hyphen. Just curious: What "generic" name do people on  
>this list-serv use for "Frisbee"?


See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+is+not+Listserv> for why we
care.

If we made "flying discs" in competition with Wham-o we might be
concerned about the generic name, but we don't so we aren't.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From chadrebuck at gmail.com  Thu Jul 22 22:53:06 2010
From: chadrebuck at gmail.com (Chad Rebuck)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:53:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] upgrading from version 2.1.9 to latest available
	version
Message-ID: <AANLkTim4-jkk9FF7x5QiVcx8_SHJSknqwA-KCE4_Mg3u@mail.gmail.com>

I realized today that the unsubscribe via web page feature of version 2.1.9
is not working for my list.  Maybe it is a known bug or something that just
doesn't work for my site due to previous upgrades.

The list is very low volume so upgrading it has not been a priority.  I
would like to understand how much effort is involved in upgrading from
version 2.1.9 to the latest available.

I am running fedora 5 if that matters.

Thank you.
Chad

From mjuarez at sourismini.com  Wed Jul 21 17:21:11 2010
From: mjuarez at sourismini.com (Mauricio Juarez)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:21:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with MAILMAN list password
Message-ID: <4C471067.7060607@sourismini.com>

Hi,

- I use mailman to administrate my email lists

- I need absolutely change the Admin Lists password

- I used the command: change_pw in my /bin Mailman directory, all was 
OK, I can use my new password for all the lists but

My old password work too, do you know why? I change the root password 
too ( the same) but doesnt work, now the old password and the new one 
worked Help plz

Mauricio


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jul 23 04:50:37 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:50:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with MAILMAN list password
In-Reply-To: <4C471067.7060607@sourismini.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010072219503703433d09c3bc@msapiro>

Mauricio Juarez wrote:
>
>- I need absolutely change the Admin Lists password
>
>- I used the command: change_pw in my /bin Mailman directory, all was 
>OK, I can use my new password for all the lists but
>
>My old password work too, do you know why? I change the root password 
>too ( the same) but doesnt work, now the old password and the new one 
>worked Help plz


I suspect you changed the password and then logged in with the new
password and then tried the old password, but you already had the
cookie from the successful login so the old password appeared to work.

Try the old password in a brand new browser session.

The other possibility is that the old password is the site password set
by bin/mmsitepass. Did you change that too?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jul 23 04:58:24 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:58:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] upgrading from version 2.1.9 to latest
	availableversion
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim4-jkk9FF7x5QiVcx8_SHJSknqwA-KCE4_Mg3u@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010072219582407033d09c517@msapiro>

Chad Rebuck wrote:

>I realized today that the unsubscribe via web page feature of version 2.1.9
>is not working for my list.  Maybe it is a known bug or something that just
>doesn't work for my site due to previous upgrades.


In what way does it not work? Are you talking about the unsubscribe
check box on the list admin Membership List page or the unsubscribe
from the user options login page or the unsubscribe from the user
options page after login?

What happens when you try to do it?

>The list is very low volume so upgrading it has not been a priority.  I
>would like to understand how much effort is involved in upgrading from
>version 2.1.9 to the latest available.
>
>I am running fedora 5 if that matters.


If you installed 2.1.9 from RPM, it is rather intricate to upgrade to a
non-RedHat RPM version because of RedHat's modifications to support
FHS.

An RPM upgrade should be very simple if there is a post 2.1.9 fedora
RPM.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Jul 23 05:05:18 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 12:05:18 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Help with MAILMAN list password
In-Reply-To: <4C471067.7060607@sourismini.com>
References: <4C471067.7060607@sourismini.com>
Message-ID: <87d3ueyk29.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mauricio Juarez writes:
 > Hi,
 > 
 > - I use mailman to administrate my email lists
 > 
 > - I need absolutely change the Admin Lists password
 > 
 > - I used the command: change_pw in my /bin Mailman directory, all was 
 > OK, I can use my new password for all the lists but
 > 
 > My old password work too, do you know why? I change the root password 
 > too ( the same) but doesnt work, now the old password and the new one 
 > worked Help plz

There are three levels of password:

moderator:   May approve or reject posts.  Cannot access list config.
list admin:  May access and change list config, and moderate.
site admin:  May create and remove lists, change config, and moderate.

change_pw only affects the site admin password.  To change list admin
and moderator passwords, you must operate on each list.  In the web
interface, there is a Passwords section of the interface where you can
change those.

If you have a lot of lists, you may want to use a script.  See
http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=6914096.

From athomps at adf.org  Fri Jul 23 05:11:21 2010
From: athomps at adf.org (Anthony R. Thompson)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 23:11:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with MAILMAN list password
In-Reply-To: <4C471067.7060607@sourismini.com>
References: <4C471067.7060607@sourismini.com>
Message-ID: <4C490859.8030800@adf.org>

On 7/21/2010 11:21 AM, Mauricio Juarez wrote:
> - I use mailman to administrate my email lists
> - I need absolutely change the Admin Lists password
> - I used the command: change_pw in my /bin Mailman directory, all was 
> My old password work too, do you know why? I change the root password 
> too ( the same) but doesnt work, now the old password and the new one 
> worked Help plz

Mauricio, the confusion may come from the fact that there might be as 
many as three "passwords" involved here:

1) The password for the entire Mailman site installation (which you may 
not even have if you didn't install Mailman yourself; this is set with 
the mmsitepass command line program)

2) The password for the list itself (which is set when the list is 
created or later with change_pw as you wrote)

3) The passwords for the list owners if they're subscribed to the list.

The confusion arises, I think, because Mailman actually accepts all of 
the above in terms of logging into the admin web interface for a list. 
So you might have changed one but not another, and it's still accepting 
the "old" password because of that.

If this doesn't help, do you remember the commands you used?  (sanitize 
the password of course, i.e., don't post real passwords on this list)

I only ask because some of your terminology is a little bit ambiguous. 
For example:

* "I use mailman to administrate my email lists" - how many lists are 
you talking about?  How many did you run change_pw for (or did you use 
the --all option for all lists at once)?  How many are exhibiting the 
confusing "accept old password" behavior?

* You said your old password works too - where is it that it "works"; do 
you mean logging into the web admin interface for the list (and is this 
the case for one list or multiple lists)?

* Similarly, when you said "I need absolutely change the Admin Lists 
password", what is it that you're trying to protect, the ability to log 
into the admin interface? (such as 
http://yourdomain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/listname or 
http://yourdomain.com/mailman/admin/listname)

I can think of some Python code you could run at the command line to see 
which password is which, but how comfortable would you be with the Unix 
shell to run test Python code there?

hope this helps,
Anthony


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jul 23 05:35:49 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:35:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with MAILMAN list password
In-Reply-To: <4C490859.8030800@adf.org>
References: <4C471067.7060607@sourismini.com> <4C490859.8030800@adf.org>
Message-ID: <4C490E15.2030909@msapiro.net>

On 7/22/2010 8:11 PM, Anthony R. Thompson wrote:
> On 7/21/2010 11:21 AM, Mauricio Juarez wrote:
>> - I use mailman to administrate my email lists
>> - I need absolutely change the Admin Lists password
>> - I used the command: change_pw in my /bin Mailman directory, all was
>> My old password work too, do you know why? I change the root password
>> too ( the same) but doesnt work, now the old password and the new one
>> worked Help plz
> 
> Mauricio, the confusion may come from the fact that there might be as
> many as three "passwords" involved here:
> 
> 1) The password for the entire Mailman site installation (which you may
> not even have if you didn't install Mailman yourself; this is set with
> the mmsitepass command line program)
> 
> 2) The password for the list itself (which is set when the list is
> created or later with change_pw as you wrote)


Stephen confused mmsitepass and change_pw in his reply. The above is
correct.


> 3) The passwords for the list owners if they're subscribed to the list.
> 
> The confusion arises, I think, because Mailman actually accepts all of
> the above in terms of logging into the admin web interface for a list.


No. Mailman will not accept the owner's list member password (if
different from the list admin and site admin passwords) for logging in
to the admin web interface.

Also, as Stephen notes there is also a list moderator password which
allows access to the list's admindb page but not the admin pages. There
is no command line too so set the moderator password. it is set/changed
via the list's admin Passwords page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From chadrebuck at gmail.com  Fri Jul 23 06:48:40 2010
From: chadrebuck at gmail.com (Chad Rebuck)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 00:48:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] upgrading from version 2.1.9 to latest
	availableversion
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010072219582407033d09c517@msapiro>
References: <AANLkTim4-jkk9FF7x5QiVcx8_SHJSknqwA-KCE4_Mg3u@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1952010072219582407033d09c517@msapiro>
Message-ID: <AANLkTilPS1oAJ0JLHRqK9g96R13Tfsj0VQemD6xdBKt8@mail.gmail.com>

Mark, thanks for the reply

it does appear mailman was installed by rpm.  if there is no rpm available
to upgrade would it be difficult to upgrade to 2.1.13 or should I go to
3.something?  I found the pages a little confusing on what the latest
version really is.  What version would be recommended to upgrade to?

details on the inability to unsubscribe:

the unsubscribe using the checkbox on the admin page does work.

the unsubscribe via email does work as well.

It is the unsubscribe on this page that does not work

http://mail.a2-16v.com/mailman/listinfo/a2-16v-list

<http://mail.a2-16v.com/mailman/listinfo/a2-16v-list>For a test I registered
a new email then tried to unsubscribe using this page above.   I would
receive an email with subject of "mailman privacy alert" and a body such as,
"an attempt was made to subscribe your address to the mailing list ....  you
are already subscribed to the list."

Feel free to attempt to duplicate the trouble by subscribing to the list and
trying to unsubscribe using this method.


On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 10:58 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Chad Rebuck wrote:
>
> >I realized today that the unsubscribe via web page feature of version
> 2.1.9
> >is nhttp://mail.a2-16v.com/mailman/listinfo/a2-16v-listot working for my
> list.  Maybe it is a known bug or something that just
> >doesn't work for my site due to previous upgrades.
>
>
> In what way does it not work? Are you talking about the unsubscribe
> check box on the list admin Membership List page or the unsubscribe
> from the user options login page or the unsubscribe from the user
> options page after login?
>
> What happens when you try to do it?
>
> >The list is very low volume so upgrading it has not been a priority.  I
> >would like to understand how much effort is involved in upgrading from
> >version 2.1.9 to the latest available.
> >
> >I am running fedora 5 if that matters.
>
>
> If you installed 2.1.9 from RPM, it is rather intricate to upgrade to a
> non-RedHat RPM version because of RedHat's modifications to support
> FHS.
>
> An RPM upgrade should be very simple if there is a post 2.1.9 fedora
> RPM.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jul 23 17:38:02 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 08:38:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] upgrading from version 2.1.9 to latest
	availableversion
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTilPS1oAJ0JLHRqK9g96R13Tfsj0VQemD6xdBKt8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201007230838020718302ba590@msapiro>

Chad Rebuck wrote:
>
>it does appear mailman was installed by rpm.  if there is no rpm available
>to upgrade would it be difficult to upgrade to 2.1.13 or should I go to
>3.something?  I found the pages a little confusing on what the latest
>version really is.  What version would be recommended to upgrade to?


MM 3 is still in alpha exposure. It is not ready to be run in
production, and I think, there is not yet a clear migration path for
MM 2.1 lists.

The latest released version to upgrade to is 2.1.13 although there will
be a 2.1.14 release currently targeted for late Sept.

In order to update a RedHat RPM release from source, there are three
possible paths.

Path 1 is to modify the patch at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2004-October/017343.html>
for the current source release, and then run configure with the
appropriate path locations to match your current RPM installation.

Path 2 is to install Mailman from source as a separate installation in
a non-conflicting location, and then move your lists and archives from
the old installation to the new.

Path 3 is to configure Mailman with --prefix=/usr/lib/mailman and
--with-var-prefix=/var/lib/mailman which may more or less work.

If you have SELinux enabled, both paths 2 and 3 will create SELinux
issues.

However, I think upgrading will not affect the following issue which
appears to be a misedited listinfo.html template for the list.


>details on the inability to unsubscribe:
>
>the unsubscribe using the checkbox on the admin page does work.


Good.


>the unsubscribe via email does work as well.


Good.


>It is the unsubscribe on this page that does not work
>
>http://mail.a2-16v.com/mailman/listinfo/a2-16v-list
>
>For a test I registered
>a new email then tried to unsubscribe using this page above.   I would
>receive an email with subject of "mailman privacy alert" and a body such as,
>"an attempt was made to subscribe your address to the mailing list ....  you
>are already subscribed to the list."


Someone has edited the listinfo page template for this list and broken
it. It looks like the portion of this template at the end, which in
the base template is

	<MM-Options-Form-Start>
	<MM-Editing-Options>
		<MM-Form-End>
      </td>
    </tr>
  </table>
<MM-Mailman-Footer>
</BODY>
</HTML>


Has been changed and "<MM-Options-Form-Start>" has been replaced by
"<MM-Subscribe-Form-Start>".

I can't tell for sure what the change was as I only see the page
generated from the template and not the template itself, but it is
something along these lines.

Go to the list admin interface and follow the "Edit the public HTML
pages and text files" link and then the "General list information
page" link and you will see and be able to fix the template.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From chadrebuck at gmail.com  Fri Jul 23 18:09:05 2010
From: chadrebuck at gmail.com (Chad Rebuck)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 12:09:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] upgrading from version 2.1.9 to latest
	availableversion
In-Reply-To: <PC195201007230838020718302ba590@msapiro>
References: <AANLkTilPS1oAJ0JLHRqK9g96R13Tfsj0VQemD6xdBKt8@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195201007230838020718302ba590@msapiro>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimOFGRvtnga8Y42hNeRKwf4Xch-Gb=8Kr62JXsg@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you very much for the reply about upgrade options.  The suggested fix
for the unsubscribe issue worked perfectly.

Chad

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Chad Rebuck wrote:
> >
> >it does appear mailman was installed by rpm.  if there is no rpm available
> >to upgrade would it be difficult to upgrade to 2.1.13 or should I go to
> >3.something?  I found the pages a little confusing on what the latest
> >version really is.  What version would be recommended to upgrade to?
>
>
> MM 3 is still in alpha exposure. It is not ready to be run in
> production, and I think, there is not yet a clear migration path for
> MM 2.1 lists.
>
> The latest released version to upgrade to is 2.1.13 although there will
> be a 2.1.14 release currently targeted for late Sept.
>
> In order to update a RedHat RPM release from source, there are three
> possible paths.
>
> Path 1 is to modify the patch at
> <
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2004-October/017343.html
> >
> for the current source release, and then run configure with the
> appropriate path locations to match your current RPM installation.
>
> Path 2 is to install Mailman from source as a separate installation in
> a non-conflicting location, and then move your lists and archives from
> the old installation to the new.
>
> Path 3 is to configure Mailman with --prefix=/usr/lib/mailman and
> --with-var-prefix=/var/lib/mailman which may more or less work.
>
> If you have SELinux enabled, both paths 2 and 3 will create SELinux
> issues.
>
> However, I think upgrading will not affect the following issue which
> appears to be a misedited listinfo.html template for the list.
>
>
> >details on the inability to unsubscribe:
> >
> >the unsubscribe using the checkbox on the admin page does work.
>
>
> Good.
>
>
> >the unsubscribe via email does work as well.
>
>
> Good.
>
>
> >It is the unsubscribe on this page that does not work
> >
> >http://mail.a2-16v.com/mailman/listinfo/a2-16v-list
> >
> >For a test I registered
> >a new email then tried to unsubscribe using this page above.   I would
> >receive an email with subject of "mailman privacy alert" and a body such
> as,
> >"an attempt was made to subscribe your address to the mailing list ....
>  you
> >are already subscribed to the list."
>
>
> Someone has edited the listinfo page template for this list and broken
> it. It looks like the portion of this template at the end, which in
> the base template is
>
>        <MM-Options-Form-Start>
>        <MM-Editing-Options>
>                <MM-Form-End>
>      </td>
>    </tr>
>  </table>
> <MM-Mailman-Footer>
> </BODY>
> </HTML>
>
>
> Has been changed and "<MM-Options-Form-Start>" has been replaced by
> "<MM-Subscribe-Form-Start>".
>
> I can't tell for sure what the change was as I only see the page
> generated from the template and not the template itself, but it is
> something along these lines.
>
> Go to the list admin interface and follow the "Edit the public HTML
> pages and text files" link and then the "General list information
> page" link and you will see and be able to fix the template.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jul 26 19:09:58 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:09:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with MAILMAN list password
In-Reply-To: <4C4DA77B.7060803@sourismini.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201007261009580515d792513d@msapiro>

Mauricio Juarez wrote:
>
>Thank you for your help but:
>
>1. I changed the password fot the entire Mailman site with mmsitepass
>2. I changed again all lists admin password with change_pw command line, 
>I receive the new password by email without problem
>3. I changed in each list Admin Website the moderator and admin 
>password, in http:/mydomain/mailman/admin/LISTNAME and the Password 
>option, only mailman list i can not (* see explication above)


It is not necessary to change the admin password via the web site as it
should have already been changed via change_pw.


>Now I can used the new password, but the old password work too :(, I 
>tried different browsers


Have you tried starting a new browser session and logging in with the
old password without first logging in with the new password?


>_*EXPLICATION mailman list- I want to know sometime:
>_
>I can not make changes in my MAILMAN LIST 
>http://mydomain/mailman/admin/mailman
>
>mydomain = mail.example.com
>
>And the Mailman list is configure with example.com in the host 
>configuration, so I can go in  
>http://mail.example.com/mailman/admin/mailman if I write the correct 
>dmain, but I can not save a change, because the page 
>http://example.com/mailman/admin/mailman doesnt exist, so I thing my 
>problem of password is linked with that because is the only password 
>list taht I can not change in the site.  Do you know how I can change 
>the host example.com by mail.example.com in a command line? I can not 
>change in the admin mailman website, because I can not save


  bin/withlist -l -r fix_url mailman -u mail.example.com


>So if I change the linked host example.com by mail.example.com in th 
>mailman list, maybe I can try to change the password in this list too 
>and my problem with the old password it is going to disappear


No. This at most will only affect the 'mailman' list, not any other
list, but if you changed the 'mailman' list password with change_pw,
it is already changed.

Exactly what Mailman version is this?

Note that prior to Mailman 2.1.13, you could set an empty site or list
password and that would allow logging in without a password. This is
fixed in Mailman 2.1.13.

Also note that in any Mailman 2.1.x version, only two passwords can be
successfully used to access a list's admin interface. These are the
site password set by bin/mmsitepass and the list admin password set by
bin/change_py or via the web list admin Passwords page. You can
disable the site password by removing Mailman's data/adm.pw file and
then only the single list admin password should work.

If this is not happening in your case, I can't explain why without more
information, but as I said, in any case, there should be at most 2
passwords that will work for accessing a list's web admin interface,
the site password and the list's admin password. Neither of these can
have multiple values.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From athomps at adf.org  Tue Jul 27 07:32:09 2010
From: athomps at adf.org (Anthony R. Thompson)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 01:32:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with MAILMAN list password
In-Reply-To: <4C4DA77B.7060803@sourismini.com>
References: <4C471067.7060607@sourismini.com> <4C490859.8030800@adf.org>
	<4C490E15.2030909@msapiro.net> <4C4DA77B.7060803@sourismini.com>
Message-ID: <4C4E6F59.5050904@adf.org>

On 7/26/2010 11:19 AM, Mauricio Juarez wrote:
> Thank you for your help but:
> 1. I changed the password fot the entire Mailman site with mmsitepass
> 2. I changed again all lists admin password with change_pw command line, 
> I receive the new password by email without problem
> 3. I changed in each list Admin Website the moderator and admin 
> password, in http:/mydomain/mailman/admin/LISTNAME and the Password 
> option, only mailman list i can not (* see explication above)

Mauricio, I wrote a script to test a given password to see if it matches 
the site admin password, the list password for the given list, and the 
moderator password for the same list.

If you want to try it out, you can download it from 
http://blog.anthonyrthompson.com/listserv-to-mailman/code/utils/which_pw
(you'll need to change its permissions of course: chmod +rx which_pw)
The usage is: which_pw listname passwordtotest

(If your mailman files aren't in /usr/lib/mailman you'll need to modify 
the sys.path.append line in that file.)

I also modified a copy of change_pw to allow for changing the moderator 
password from the command line.  If you want or need to do that, it's at
http://blog.anthonyrthompson.com/listserv-to-mailman/code/utils/change_mod_pw

(same stuff about chmod and /usr/lib/mailman applies as with which_pw)

In addition to the stuff Mark wrote, I'd ask, did you install Mailman on 
the server or was it someone else?

I ask because it's possible that maybe the "mailman" list which you 
mentioned having problems with, is managed differently from other lists?

We have a managed server and after I set up all our "real" lists I went 
and deleted the "mailman" list thinking it was just a test/stub list. 
Good thing I mentioned doing that in passing to our server admin, who 
restored it and told me that it was an important special-purpose list.

Also, to find your Mailman version you can do bin/version (that's 
ultra-basic but I didn't know it until recently myself :)

Anyway, hope this helps,
Anthony


From mjuarez at sourismini.com  Mon Jul 26 17:19:23 2010
From: mjuarez at sourismini.com (Mauricio Juarez)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 11:19:23 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with MAILMAN list password
In-Reply-To: <4C490E15.2030909@msapiro.net>
References: <4C471067.7060607@sourismini.com> <4C490859.8030800@adf.org>
	<4C490E15.2030909@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4C4DA77B.7060803@sourismini.com>

Thank you for your help but:

1. I changed the password fot the entire Mailman site with mmsitepass
2. I changed again all lists admin password with change_pw command line, 
I receive the new password by email without problem
3. I changed in each list Admin Website the moderator and admin 
password, in http:/mydomain/mailman/admin/LISTNAME and the Password 
option, only mailman list i can not (* see explication above)

Now I can used the new password, but the old password work too :(, I 
tried different browsers

_*EXPLICATION mailman list- I want to know sometime:
_
I can not make changes in my MAILMAN LIST 
http://mydomain/mailman/admin/mailman

mydomain = mail.example.com

And the Mailman list is configure with example.com in the host 
configuration, so I can go in  
http://mail.example.com/mailman/admin/mailman if I write the correct 
dmain, but I can not save a change, because the page 
http://example.com/mailman/admin/mailman doesnt exist, so I thing my 
problem of password is linked with that because is the only password 
list taht I can not change in the site.  Do you know how I can change 
the host example.com by mail.example.com in a command line? I can not 
change in the admin mailman website, because I can not save

So if I change the linked host example.com by mail.example.com in th 
mailman list, maybe I can try to change the password in this list too 
and my problem with the old password it is going to disappear


txs for your help


Le 2010-07-22 23:35, Mark Sapiro a ?crit :
> On 7/22/2010 8:11 PM, Anthony R. Thompson wrote:
>    
>> On 7/21/2010 11:21 AM, Mauricio Juarez wrote:
>>      
>>> - I use mailman to administrate my email lists
>>> - I need absolutely change the Admin Lists password
>>> - I used the command: change_pw in my /bin Mailman directory, all was
>>> My old password work too, do you know why? I change the root password
>>> too ( the same) but doesnt work, now the old password and the new one
>>> worked Help plz
>>>        
>> Mauricio, the confusion may come from the fact that there might be as
>> many as three "passwords" involved here:
>>
>> 1) The password for the entire Mailman site installation (which you may
>> not even have if you didn't install Mailman yourself; this is set with
>> the mmsitepass command line program)
>>
>> 2) The password for the list itself (which is set when the list is
>> created or later with change_pw as you wrote)
>>      
>
> Stephen confused mmsitepass and change_pw in his reply. The above is
> correct.
>
>
>    
>> 3) The passwords for the list owners if they're subscribed to the list.
>>
>> The confusion arises, I think, because Mailman actually accepts all of
>> the above in terms of logging into the admin web interface for a list.
>>      
>
> No. Mailman will not accept the owner's list member password (if
> different from the list admin and site admin passwords) for logging in
> to the admin web interface.
>
> Also, as Stephen notes there is also a list moderator password which
> allows access to the list's admindb page but not the admin pages. There
> is no command line too so set the moderator password. it is set/changed
> via the list's admin Passwords page.
>
>    

From sandeep.y143 at yahoo.co.in  Tue Jul 27 14:27:13 2010
From: sandeep.y143 at yahoo.co.in (sandeep kumar)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:57:13 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem regarding creating mailing list
In-Reply-To: <mailman.42.1280224808.785.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <370539.69148.qm@web137302.mail.in.yahoo.com>

1.While creating a mailing list through command line, the owner of the list creator does get any mail regarding creation of mailisg list? .
What is the procedure actually to create the mailing list , does the owner requires any privelages .

2. While creating mailing list through web interface using
http://domain name/mailman/create , it asks for list creater password , 
We reset the password of admin and list creator password using mmsitepass
but the password which is reset is not accepted in the interface . 

Is there any procedure to update passwords or any other way to create mailing list



From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jul 27 17:36:26 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 08:36:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem regarding creating mailing list
In-Reply-To: <370539.69148.qm@web137302.mail.in.yahoo.com>
References: <370539.69148.qm@web137302.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4C4EFCFA.40709@msapiro.net>

On 7/27/2010 5:27 AM, sandeep kumar wrote:
> 1.While creating a mailing list through command line, the owner of
> the list creator does get any mail regarding creation of mailisg list
> . What is the procedure actually to create the mailing list , does
> the owner requires any privelages .


If you create a list via bin/newlist, the list owner address should
receive an emailed notice provided the '-q' option is not given to
newlist, and provided Mailman (mailmanctl and the qrunners) is running.

If the qrunners are not running, the notice will be queued and will be
sent when Mailman is started.

The list owner is only an email address. Nothing is required of it other
than it be valid. The person running bin/newlist itself must be either
root or a member of Mailman's group.


> 2. While creating mailing list through web interface using 
> http://domain name/mailman/create , it asks for list creater password
> , We reset the password of admin and list creator password using
> mmsitepass but the password which is reset is not accepted in the
> interface .


What is the exact error? Are you certain you are giving the creator
password or site admin password exactly as set by mmsitepass?


> Is there any procedure to update passwords or any other way to create
> mailing list


Lists are created either via the web create or bin/newlist.

The site admin and/or list creator passwords are set/changed with
bin/mmsitepass.

List admin and moderator passwords can be set/changed via the list's web
admin interface. List admin passwords can also be changed via bin/change_pw.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mary.y.wang at boeing.com  Tue Jul 27 19:48:26 2010
From: mary.y.wang at boeing.com (Wang, Mary Y)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 10:48:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Only allow @company.com to Subscribe and Only allow
 certain email addresses to post
Message-ID: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC0458BB103A@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>

Hi,

I've two questions.
How do I configure a Mailman list to do the following?
(1) Only allow @company.com to subscribe a Mailman list
(2) Only allow certain email addresses to post

Thanks in advance.
Mary



From joonho at a9.com  Tue Jul 27 20:24:23 2010
From: joonho at a9.com (Syn, Joonho)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:24:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] updates to Namazu FAQ entry?
Message-ID: <2152D754-FF2A-4624-97F3-7EB01648281D@a9.com>

Hi,
found the Namazu FAQ here

http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030581

Was wondering if there are any updates to FAQ as it seemed to leave a couple issues unresolved, specifically regarding automatic indexing using a cron job and also hacking in a search box.  Have Namazu and mailman been integrated a bit better by now?

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Tue Jul 27 20:24:47 2010
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:24:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem regarding creating mailing list
In-Reply-To: <370539.69148.qm@web137302.mail.in.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.42.1280224808.785.mailman-users@python.org>
	<370539.69148.qm@web137302.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100727182447.GC28385@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 05:57:13PM +0530, sandeep kumar wrote:

> does the owner requires any privelages .

You'll need to be able to write to the appropriate directories, and
probably have a sane umask.

(In my case, I interact with Mailman from a user account which is a
member of the 'list' or 'mailman' groups (so I don't need to su), and
has a umask of 0002. YMMV.)

-- 
``Bernard: It's another of those irregular verbs. I hold 
  confidential briefings, you leak, he's been charged 
  under section 2A of the Official Secrets Act. ''

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jul 27 20:44:26 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:44:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Only allow @company.com to Subscribe and Only
	allowcertain email addresses to post
In-Reply-To: <FA20D4C4FEBFD148B1C0CB09913825FC0458BB103A@XCH-SW-06V.sw.nos.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201007271144260984435bedb2@msapiro>

Wang, Mary Y wrote:
>
>I've two questions.
>How do I configure a Mailman list to do the following?
>(1) Only allow @company.com to subscribe a Mailman list


Add the following regexp to Privacy options... -> Subscription rules ->
ban_list

^[^@]+@(?!company\.com$)

If you want to accept subdomain addresses such as user at xyz.company.com,
make the regexp

^[^@]+@(?!(.*\.)?company\.com$)


>(2) Only allow certain email addresses to post


1. Set Membership Management... -> Membership
Listdefault_member_moderation to Yes.

2. Set everyone's moderate bit On at Membership Management... ->
Membership List - Additional Member Tasks.

You can leave the list like that and set a moderator password and tell
the approved posters to post by including a header

Approved: moderator_password

in their posts. This is the "spoof proof" method - only people who know
this password can post without moderation.

If you don't want to do that, you can uncheck the "mod" box in
Membership Management... -> Membership List for those list members who
are allowed to post, and if any non-members are allowed to post, add
their addresses to Privacy options... -> Sender filters ->
accept_these_nonmembers.

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/3YA9> for more.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jul 27 20:48:54 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:48:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] updates to Namazu FAQ entry?
In-Reply-To: <2152D754-FF2A-4624-97F3-7EB01648281D@a9.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010072711485407186bb6c9c4@msapiro>

Syn, Joonho wrote:

>found the Namazu FAQ here
>
>http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030581
>
>Was wondering if there are any updates to FAQ as it seemed to leave a couple issues unresolved, specifically regarding automatic indexing using a cron job and also hacking in a search box.  Have Namazu and mailman been integrated a bit better by now?


There are possibly users who've done more and have possibly posted
information elsewhere on the web, but the above FAQ and the archives
of this list are all we have.


If you find anything, let us know so we can update the FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From sandeep.y143 at yahoo.co.in  Wed Jul 28 14:29:11 2010
From: sandeep.y143 at yahoo.co.in (sandeep kumar)
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:59:11 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regarding Creation of mailing list
In-Reply-To: <mailman.32.1280311206.16791.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <46835.61015.qm@web137318.mail.in.yahoo.com>


I have changed password of list creator password using mmsitepass

dcis:/var/mailman/bin # ./mmsitepass
New site password: 
Again to confirm password: 
Password changed.
dcis:/var/mailman/bin # ./mmsitepass -c
New list creator password: 
Again to confirm password: 
Password changed.
dcis:/var/mailman/bin # 

This was the error i have got when using the password which was change by above

Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists




From sandeep.y143 at yahoo.co.in  Wed Jul 28 14:34:17 2010
From: sandeep.y143 at yahoo.co.in (sandeep kumar)
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:04:17 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue regarding login account
In-Reply-To: <mailman.32.1280311206.16791.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <751316.13133.qm@web137320.mail.in.yahoo.com>

When login an account i get an error



ERROR:
ERROR: Connection dropped by IMAP server.

Query: SELECT "INBOX"


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jul 28 16:16:44 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:16:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issue regarding login account
In-Reply-To: <751316.13133.qm@web137320.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201007280716440015fb10f27b@msapiro>

sandeep kumar wrote:

>When login an account i get an error
>
>
>
>ERROR:
>ERROR: Connection dropped by IMAP server.
>
>Query: SELECT "INBOX"


This has nothing to do with Mailman. It is between your MUA (mail
client) and the IMAP server on the host.

If you think this is a Mailman issue, please describe in detail what
you do to "login an account".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Jul 28 16:38:06 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:38:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regarding Creation of mailing list
In-Reply-To: <46835.61015.qm@web137318.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201007280738060109af451173@msapiro>

sandeep kumar wrote:

>
>I have changed password of list creator password using mmsitepass
>
>dcis:/var/mailman/bin # ./mmsitepass
>New site password: 
>Again to confirm password: 
>Password changed.
>dcis:/var/mailman/bin # ./mmsitepass -c
>New list creator password: 
>Again to confirm password: 
>Password changed.
>dcis:/var/mailman/bin # 
>
>This was the error i have got when using the password which was change by above
>
>Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists


This is between your web browser and the web server on the host or
between the web server and Mailman.

Find the section in the script Mailman/Cgi/create.py that says

    # The authorization password must be non-empty, and it must match
either
    # the list creation password or the site admin password
    ok = 0
    if auth:
        ok = Utils.check_global_password(auth, 0)
        if not ok:
            ok = Utils.check_global_password(auth)
    if not ok:
        request_creation(
            doc, cgidata,
            _('You are not authorized to create new mailing lists'))
        return

Change the line

            _('You are not authorized to create new mailing lists'))

to

            _('Authorization failed. auth = %(auth)r'))

That will then show you the creator password that Mailman is seeing and
you can verify that it is or is not what you entered.

Also, it is possible that if the password contains non-ascii
characters, that there are character set conversion issues. The
password should not contain other than the 95 printable us-ascii
characters and must not begin or end with spaces.
-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From sandeep.y143 at yahoo.co.in  Thu Jul 29 08:55:48 2010
From: sandeep.y143 at yahoo.co.in (sandeep kumar)
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:55:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unable to post messages to my list
In-Reply-To: <mailman.32.1280311206.16791.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <705164.76672.qm@web137301.mail.in.yahoo.com>

i have created a list with the following command in the command line

/etc/newlist mtech-cs-2010 anil_moogala at dcis.uohyd.ernet.in password

and then i have added the aliases to the /etc/aliases file...

then i got a mail in my mail box saying

The mailing list `mtech-cs-2010' has just been created for you.  The
following is some basic information about your mailing list.

Your mailing list password is:

    *****

You need this password to configure your mailing list.  You also need
it to handle administrative requests, such as approving mail if you
choose to run a moderated list.

You can configure your mailing list at the following web page:

    http://dcis.uohyd.ernet.in/mailman/admin/mtech-cs-2010

The web page for users of your mailing list is: 

    http://dcis.uohyd.ernet.in/mailman/listinfo/mtech-cs-2010

You can even customize these web pages from the list configuration
page.  However, you do need to know HTML to be able to do this.

There is also an email-based interface for users (not administrators)
of your list; you can get info about using it by sending a message
with just the word `help' as subject or in the body, to:

    mtech-cs-2010-request at dcis.uohyd.ernet.in

To unsubscribe a user: from the mailing list 'listinfo' web page,
click on or enter the user's email address as if you were that user.
Where that user would put in their password to unsubscribe, put in
your admin password.  You can also use your password to change
member's options, including digestification, delivery disabling, etc.

Please address all questions to mailman-admin at dcis.uohyd.ernet.in.
---

when i try to view my list in the interface, it is giving a message 

No such list mtech-cs-2010

i then added few members to the list using /bin/add_members -r s mtech-cs-2010

s is the file containing list of mail ids

it gave the following 

dcis:/var/mailman/bin # ./add_members -r s mtech-cs-2010
/var/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py:469: DeprecationWarning: raising a string exception is deprecated
? raise quickexit
Subscribed: sandeep at dcis.uohyd.ernet.in
Subscribed: anil_moogala at dcis.uohyd.ernet.in

a welcome message is sent to the members subscribed.

when i try to post a message to the list i have created, it gave me a 


Returned mail: see transcript for details
The original message was received at Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:23:34 +0530
from localhost [127.0.0.1]

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mtech-cs-2010"
    (reason: 1)
    (expanded from: <mtech-cs-2010 at dcis.uohyd.ernet.in>)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
post script, list not found: mtech-cs-2010


554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1


                      


From kremels at kreme.com  Thu Jul 29 09:45:43 2010
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 01:45:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Test messages
Message-ID: <4809AC4D-90E4-4927-AF65-E4AF37C3871E@kreme.com>

I may have asked this before, but if so I can't find it in my archives.

Is there a way to send a test message to a list without it being sent out to the entire list? Something like a ping that only replies to you?

I have a list I host for a friend that is very sporadic. When active it can get 100 posts a day, but those days come infrequently.

Sometimes he's concerned that posts are getting lost (it's happened in the past that some configuration muckup has borked the list) and he'd like to be able to check that the list is ok.

-- 
"A thousand years ago we thought the world was a bowl. Five hundred
years ago we knew it was a globe. Today we know it is flat and round
carried through space on the back of a turtle. Don't you wonder what
shape it will turn out to be tomorrow?" [Lord Vetinari]  --The Truth


From malcolm.austen at weald.org.uk  Thu Jul 29 10:32:03 2010
From: malcolm.austen at weald.org.uk (Malcolm Austen)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:32:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Test messages
In-Reply-To: <4809AC4D-90E4-4927-AF65-E4AF37C3871E@kreme.com>
References: <4809AC4D-90E4-4927-AF65-E4AF37C3871E@kreme.com>
Message-ID: <op.vgljbpa3g14ka7@oucs-hue.oucs.ox.ac.uk>

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 08:45:43 +0100, LuKreme <kremels at kreme.com> wrote:

> I may have asked this before, but if so I can't find it in my archives.
>
> Is there a way to send a test message to a list without it being sent  
> out to the entire list? Something like a ping that only replies to you?
>
> I have a list I host for a friend that is very sporadic. When active it  
> can get 100 posts a day, but those days come infrequently.
>
> Sometimes he's concerned that posts are getting lost (it's happened in  
> the past that some configuration muckup has borked the list) and he'd  
> like to be able to check that the list is ok.

I habitually configure lists with spam filter entries of the form:

      ^Subject:.*test.*

Other entries contain the words 'spam', 'virus' and 'digest'. Then, if you  
only want to test the process to the list, all you need do is put 'test'  
into the subject line.

You could, of course, apply emergency moderation for the duration of the  
test!

I'm sure there are other options (I don't have back-end shell access to my  
lists) that involve stopping the outgoing mail and archive handlers.

= Malcolm.

-- 
Malcolm Austen, Oxfordshire, England

From etorres at dap.es  Thu Jul 29 12:33:13 2010
From: etorres at dap.es (Esteban Torres)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:33:13 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] limitation in name of the account between the mail
 client and mailman?
Message-ID: <20100729123313.cbd43443.etorres@dap.es>



RHEL 5.3
postfix-2.3.3
mailman-2.1.9


I have a problem with the mail client (thunderbird and Outlook Express). When sending an email to the list from the mail client and the client has set the name of the big personal information does not commands. I get this error:

July 29 11:53:10 2010 (29 383) All recipients Refused: ('=? Iso-8859-1? Q? Administrative = f3n_of_system_and_configurati? =': (550, '5 .1.1 <=? Iso-8859-1? q? administrative = f3n_of_system_and_configurati? =>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in relay recipient table ')), msgid: <mailman.70.1280397189.29381.support_tec at test.es>
July 29 11:53:10 2010 (29 383) delivery to =? Iso-8859-1? Q? Administrative = f3n_of_system_and_configurati? = Failed with code 550: 5.1.1 <=? Iso-8859-1? Q? Administrative = f3n_of_system_and_configurati ? =>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in relay recipient table


If I send from squirrelmail works fine.

If the name of the account of the personal information I set it up shorter length also works perfect.

Is there any length limitation in name of the account between the mail client and mailman?


From s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk  Thu Jul 29 13:12:52 2010
From: s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk (Steff Watkins)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:12:52 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Test messages
In-Reply-To: <op.vgljbpa3g14ka7@oucs-hue.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <8A17F10FEBA5C841956578C5AD9027D3D59C9D@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+s.watkins=nhm.ac.uk at python.org 
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+s.watkins=nhm.ac.uk at python.org] 
> On Behalf Of Malcolm Austen

> I habitually configure lists with spam filter entries of the form:
> 
>       ^Subject:.*test.*
> 
> Other entries contain the words 'spam', 'virus' and 'digest'. 
> Then, if you only want to test the process to the list, all 
> you need do is put 'test'  
> into the subject line.
> 
> You could, of course, apply emergency moderation for the 
> duration of the test!
> 
> I'm sure there are other options (I don't have back-end shell 
> access to my
> lists) that involve stopping the outgoing mail and archive handlers.
> 
> = Malcolm.

I'm not too sure how useful this would be for testing "end-to-end"
throughput. When I was a little green about the gills (or greener than I
am now) wrt. Mailman I had a problem with an intermittently
"unresponsive" list. I looked at most things I could think of but
couldn't find the problem.

Eventually the penny dropped and I "realised" that those pesky 'runner'
processes had something to do with something in particular the Incoming
and Outgoing runner. Sure enough my process list showed that the
Incoming runner was there but the Outgoing runner would "die". (I fixed
that issue, it was something to do with directory ownerships). End
result, email came into the list and then just sat there.

Anyway, if you had a spam rule then surely that'd be great for testing
the message coming into the list at which point it'd be blocked (as
spam) but it wouldn't test whether the message would be mailed
out/forwarded to the list members.

I'm showing a bit of interest in this request as I'd like to know if
there is a way of doing just this, sending a test email to an
established list that only list admin and/or myself would recive to
check the list is running fine.

One thought/idea I've had is to have a "test" list which has only my
work email address, an offsite email address and maybe one or two of my
colleagues (for verification purposes), lock it right down so that only
the members can use it, add the "Me too" tag so that we'd receive any
emails we sent to the list and use that to check that the mailman
service is functional. Does that sound a valid way of doing it, too much
effort FWIW or missing the point as it wouldn't test a particular list
just the mailman service?

Regards,
Steff
 ---------------
Steff Watkins				Natural History Museum, Cromwell
Road, London, SW7 5BD
Systems programmer			Email: s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk 
Systems Team				Phone: +44 (0)20 7942 6000 opt 2
========
Many were increasingly of the opinion that they'd all made a big mistake
in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that
even the trees had been a bad move, and that no one should ever have
left the oceans. - HHGTTG


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Jul 29 13:39:53 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:39:53 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Test messages
In-Reply-To: <8A17F10FEBA5C841956578C5AD9027D3D59C9D@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>
References: <op.vgljbpa3g14ka7@oucs-hue.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<8A17F10FEBA5C841956578C5AD9027D3D59C9D@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <87r5imtt2u.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Steff Watkins writes:

 > One thought/idea I've had is to have a "test" list which has only my
 > work email address, an offsite email address and maybe one or two of my
 > colleagues (for verification purposes), lock it right down so that only
 > the members can use it, add the "Me too" tag so that we'd receive any
 > emails we sent to the list and use that to check that the mailman
 > service is functional. Does that sound a valid way of doing it, too much
 > effort FWIW or missing the point as it wouldn't test a particular list
 > just the mailman service?

This is precisely what I do.

It is possible, but unlikely, that a particular list would have a
problem.  For example, it could have something to do with the size of
the list, such as recipient MTAs not liking too many RCPT TOs on a
single message, or a fascist (message-dropping) throttle at your ISP.

But the outgoing runner doesn't care what the list is, and neither
does the MTA, so the test list *is* a valid test, especially for the
(fairly common, as Mailman failures go) failure case of a runner going
down.  At least you can rule that out.


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Thu Jul 29 14:20:39 2010
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:20:39 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Test messages
In-Reply-To: <8A17F10FEBA5C841956578C5AD9027D3D59C9D@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>
References: <op.vgljbpa3g14ka7@oucs-hue.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
	<8A17F10FEBA5C841956578C5AD9027D3D59C9D@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20100729122039.GV28385@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 12:12:52PM +0100, Steff Watkins wrote:
> One thought/idea I've had is to have a "test" list which has only my
> work email address, an offsite email address and maybe one or two of my
> colleagues (for verification purposes), lock it right down so that only
> the members can use it, add the "Me too" tag so that we'd receive any
> emails we sent to the list and use that to check that the mailman
> service is functional. 

That might be one way; although useful for those of us not on some
tuppence ha'penny shoe-string "ISP" who believe in limiting the amount
of mail transmissions (and where the punter may not know of those
limits).

Of course, MTA problems may also exist, which that approach wouldn't
examine (nor do I see mention of testing the web interfaces work).

*brainfart*
Perhaps a Mailman-admin's 'test suite' might be useful? And
presumably have the option to run (gah!) via the web-admin interface,
as well as the command line

> Does that sound a valid way of doing it, too much
> effort FWIW or missing the point as it wouldn't test a particular list
> just the mailman service?

using config_list on a "troublesome" list, a spot of sed/withlist, and
config_list on a new list, may be one way to transfer the list
settings over; possibly followed by remove_members -a and add_members;
all of that could be made into a two arguements "clonelist" script.

This doesn't, of course, help, if Mailman's not running -- never rule
out (or forget about) the obvious -- nor, say if there's a lack of
disk-space.

I can't remember what, if anything, was decided about test lists in
MM3. 

I'll be waiting for MM3, before I start fiddling with trending Mailman
in Nagios; for now, my "last posts" script/output does the job well
enough (and I am a lazy sysadmin) for me.

-- 
``What is a committee?  A group of the unwilling,
  picked from the unfit, to do the unnecessary.''  (Richard Harkness)

From aepstein at fmams.org.il  Thu Jul 29 14:32:48 2010
From: aepstein at fmams.org.il (Alison Epstein)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:32:48 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Someone to install Mailman?
Message-ID: <2578828F-AB40-435B-A9A2-27DCDD502BC8@fmams.org.il>

Is there anyone out there who does freelance installations of Mailman?

And if so, how much do you charge an hour and how much time do you  
estimate it would take to install and get me started?

Thanks,
Alison

----------------------------------

Sign up for The Melton Israel Seminar - The Ultimate On-Site Learning  
Experience

Alison Epstein
FMAMS web-content coordinator
aepstein at fmams.org.il

416-638-2475 North American VoIP phone
815-346-2644 North American fax
052-569-7945 Israeli cell phone
(08) 946-1472 Israeli land line
skype: alitraeps

Summer Israel Time (GMT+3)



From sgruver at sbctc.edu  Thu Jul 29 22:23:16 2010
From: sgruver at sbctc.edu (Sandi Gruver)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:23:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] about address format
Message-ID: <C9DAB68D699F2D44AEBE47706B75E6E7225B9B2F3C@exch-2.sbctc2.local>

A list member wants to change her subscriptions from @xxx.edu to @mail.xxx.edu.
She is unable to do so globally, received this message:
> Bad email address provided Member name successfully changed.

Later she unsubscribed from a different list and on attempting to re-subscribe with the new address (@mail.xxx.edu) she got this error:
The email address you supplied is not valid. (E.g. it must contain an`@'.)

Any suggestions for this type of mail address?  (Didn't find anything helpful in the archives)
... and, yes I can manually subscribe her.
 

Thank you,

Sandi Gruver
Unix System Administrator
SBCTC-ITD
1300 Quince Street SE
Olympia, WA 98504
360.704.1019



From tolo8888 at yandex.ru  Thu Jul 29 16:29:42 2010
From: tolo8888 at yandex.ru (=?koi8-r?B?9M/My9XOz9cg59LJx8/Syco=?=)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 18:29:42 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Someone to install Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <2578828F-AB40-435B-A9A2-27DCDD502BC8@fmams.org.il>
References: <2578828F-AB40-435B-A9A2-27DCDD502BC8@fmams.org.il>
Message-ID: <3861280413782@web100.yandex.ru>

At the moment I am compelled to install Mailman,
so Mailman I have on FreeBSD 6.2 does not accept messages (list "test") from users - 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/usr/local/mailmam/mail/mailman post test"
    (reason: 127)
 ----- Transcript of session follows -----
/usr/local/mailmam/mail/mailman: not found
554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 127
--------------------------------------------------------------
It's as in the case  with-mail-gid is not established: "Group mismatch error. Mailman expected ..as group "mailnull", but the mail server to run the script as group "wheel"..." ;
The message arises on the screen after command #/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post test

command "make -V CONFIGURE_ARGS " in  /usr/ports/mail/mailman  gives out " with-mail-gid=mailnull"

Thanks for help...


29.07.10, 16:32, "Alison Epstein" <aepstein at fmams.org.il>:

> Is there anyone out there who does freelance installations of Mailman?
>  
>  And if so, how much do you charge an hour and how much time do you  
>  estimate it would take to install and get me started?
>  
>  Thanks,
>  Alison
>  
>  ----------------------------------
>  
>  Sign up for The Melton Israel Seminar - The Ultimate On-Site Learning  
>  Experience
>  
>  Alison Epstein
>  FMAMS web-content coordinator
>  aepstein at fmams.org.il
>  
>  416-638-2475 North American VoIP phone
>  815-346-2644 North American fax
>  052-569-7945 Israeli cell phone
>  (08) 946-1472 Israeli land line
>  skype: alitraeps
>  
>  Summer Israel Time (GMT+3)
>  
>  
>  ------------------------------------------------------
>  Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>  Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>  Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>  Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>  Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/tolo8888%40yandex.ru
>  
>  

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jul 30 03:45:29 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 18:45:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unable to post messages to my list
In-Reply-To: <705164.76672.qm@web137301.mail.in.yahoo.com>
References: <705164.76672.qm@web137301.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4C522EB9.9070206@msapiro.net>

On 7/28/2010 11:55 PM, sandeep kumar wrote:
> i have created a list with the following command in the command line
> 
> /etc/newlist mtech-cs-2010 anil_moogala at dcis.uohyd.ernet.in password
> 
> and then i have added the aliases to the /etc/aliases file...
> 
> then i got a mail in my mail box saying
> 
> The mailing list `mtech-cs-2010' has just been created for you. 
[...]
> ---
> 
> when i try to view my list in the interface, it is giving a message 
> 
> No such list mtech-cs-2010


See my reply to your off list message.

Everything points to two Mailman installations. All the command line
stuff you are doing is with a Mailman installation that is not the same
as the one accessed via the web.

Check the ScriptAlias for mailman in the web server and see where it points.


> i then added few members to the list using /bin/add_members -r s mtech-cs-2010
> 
> s is the file containing list of mail ids
> 
> it gave the following 
> 
> dcis:/var/mailman/bin # ./add_members -r s mtech-cs-2010
> /var/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py:469: DeprecationWarning: raising a string exception is deprecated
>   raise quickexit


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/pYA9> for information about which
Mailman versions are compatible with which Python versions.


> Subscribed: sandeep at dcis.uohyd.ernet.in
> Subscribed: anil_moogala at dcis.uohyd.ernet.in
> 
> a welcome message is sent to the members subscribed.
> 
> when i try to post a message to the list i have created, it gave me a 
> 
> 
> Returned mail: see transcript for details
> The original message was received at Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:23:34 +0530
> from localhost [127.0.0.1]
> 
>    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mtech-cs-2010"
>     (reason: 1)
>     (expanded from: <mtech-cs-2010 at dcis.uohyd.ernet.in>)
> 
>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> post script, list not found: mtech-cs-2010


Your Mailman instalation in /usr/lib/mailman is not the same Mailman
installation as the one in /var/mailman. These appear to be two
different installations. You are creating lists with
/var/mailman/bin/newlist, etc. and your web server and your aliases
point to the installation in /usr/lib/mailman which is not the same
Mailman instance.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jul 30 05:48:29 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:48:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] limitation in name of the account between the
 mail client and mailman?
In-Reply-To: <20100729123313.cbd43443.etorres@dap.es>
References: <20100729123313.cbd43443.etorres@dap.es>
Message-ID: <4C524B8D.6070103@msapiro.net>

On 7/29/2010 3:33 AM, Esteban Torres wrote:
> 
> 
> RHEL 5.3 postfix-2.3.3 mailman-2.1.9
> 
> 
> I have a problem with the mail client (thunderbird and Outlook
> Express). When sending an email to the list from the mail client and
> the client has set the name of the big personal information does not
> commands. I get this error:
> 
> July 29 11:53:10 2010 (29 383) All recipients Refused: ('=?
> Iso-8859-1? Q? Administrative = f3n_of_system_and_configurati? =':
> (550, '5 .1.1 <=? Iso-8859-1? q? administrative =
> f3n_of_system_and_configurati? =>: Recipient address rejected: User
> unknown in relay recipient table ')), msgid:
> <mailman.70.1280397189.29381.support_tec at test.es> July 29 11:53:10
> 2010 (29 383) delivery to =? Iso-8859-1? Q? Administrative =
> f3n_of_system_and_configurati? = Failed with code 550: 5.1.1 <=?
> Iso-8859-1? Q? Administrative = f3n_of_system_and_configurati ? =>:
> Recipient address rejected: User unknown in relay recipient table


The client is trying to send to the address "Administrative?n of system
and configurati" instead of some address like "listname at example.com"

This is strictly a mail client issue. It has nothing to do with Mailman
as far as I can see.


I do not understand what "the client has set the name of the big
personal information does not commands" means, but perhaps this has
something to do with it.

> If I send from squirrelmail works fine.
> 
> If the name of the account of the personal information I set it up
> shorter length also works perfect.
> 
> Is there any length limitation in name of the account between the
> mail client and mailman?


Are you saying the list name is "Administrative?n of system and
configurati..."?  If so, the list name can't contain spaces, but there
is no Mailman limitation on the length of the listname.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jul 30 06:06:08 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 21:06:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Someone to install Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <3861280413782@web100.yandex.ru>
References: <2578828F-AB40-435B-A9A2-27DCDD502BC8@fmams.org.il>
	<3861280413782@web100.yandex.ru>
Message-ID: <4C524FB0.30907@msapiro.net>

Please don't hijack threads. Post new topics as a new post, not as a
reply to an unrelated message.


On 7/29/2010 7:29 AM, ???????? ???????? wrote:
> At the moment I am compelled to install Mailman,
> so Mailman I have on FreeBSD 6.2 does not accept messages (list "test") from users - 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> "|/usr/local/mailmam/mail/mailman post test"
>     (reason: 127)
>  ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> /usr/local/mailmam/mail/mailman: not found
> 554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 127
> --------------------------------------------------------------


Your aliases or whatever your MTA uses to deliver mail to Mailman
do/does not point to the correct location for the mail/mailman wrapper.
This says the MTA is trying to pipe the mail to
/usr/local/mailmam/mail/mailman, and that file is not found.


> It's as in the case  with-mail-gid is not established: "Group mismatch error. Mailman expected ..as group "mailnull", but the mail server to run the script as group "wheel"..." ;
> The message arises on the screen after command #/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post test
> 
> command "make -V CONFIGURE_ARGS " in  /usr/ports/mail/mailman  gives out " with-mail-gid=mailnull"


This is a separate issue from the one above. It says that your Mailman
has been configured to expect the mailman/mail/mailman wrapper to be
invoked by the some process running as group 'mailnull', but the MTA is
invoking it as group 'wheel'.

You can see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/tYA9> for a more detailed
explanation, but how to fix it is a FreeBSD packaging question.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jul 30 06:30:18 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 21:30:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] about address format
In-Reply-To: <C9DAB68D699F2D44AEBE47706B75E6E7225B9B2F3C@exch-2.sbctc2.local>
Message-ID: <PC195201007292130180734d42b65b0@msapiro>

Sandi Gruver wrote:

>A list member wants to change her subscriptions from @xxx.edu to @mail.xxx.edu.
>She is unable to do so globally, received this message:
>> Bad email address provided Member name successfully changed.


There should be no reason why Mailman would not accept an address of
the form username at mail.xxx.edu for a global or individual list address
change from the user's options page.


>Later she unsubscribed from a different list and on attempting to re-subscribe with the new address (@mail.xxx.edu) she got this error:
>The email address you supplied is not valid. (E.g. it must contain an`@'.)


I'm only guessing here, but it seems she is not actually providing an
email address of the form username at mail.xxx.edu. She is providing an
invalid address which is syntactically invalid for some reason other
than the domain's being mail.xxx.edu.


>Any suggestions for this type of mail address?  (Didn't find anything helpful in the archives)
>... and, yes I can manually subscribe her.


And can you subscribe her mail.xxx.edu address using the methods that
she is using (subscribe from the list's listinfo page)?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From etorres at dap.es  Fri Jul 30 08:57:12 2010
From: etorres at dap.es (Esteban Torres)
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 08:57:12 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] limitation in name of the account between the
 mail client and mailman?
In-Reply-To: <4C524B8D.6070103@msapiro.net>
References: <20100729123313.cbd43443.etorres@dap.es>
	<4C524B8D.6070103@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20100730085712.f91e420b.etorres@dap.es>

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:48:29 -0700
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 7/29/2010 3:33 AM, Esteban Torres wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > RHEL 5.3 postfix-2.3.3 mailman-2.1.9
> > 
> > 
> > I have a problem with the mail client (thunderbird and Outlook
> > Express). When sending an email to the list from the mail client and
> > the client has set the name of the big personal information does not
> > commands. I get this error:
> > 
> > July 29 11:53:10 2010 (29 383) All recipients Refused: ('=?
> > Iso-8859-1? Q? Administrative = f3n_of_system_and_configurati? =':
> > (550, '5 .1.1 <=? Iso-8859-1? q? administrative =
> > f3n_of_system_and_configurati? =>: Recipient address rejected: User
> > unknown in relay recipient table ')), msgid:
> > <mailman.70.1280397189.29381.support_tec at test.es> July 29 11:53:10
> > 2010 (29 383) delivery to =? Iso-8859-1? Q? Administrative =
> > f3n_of_system_and_configurati? = Failed with code 550: 5.1.1 <=?
> > Iso-8859-1? Q? Administrative = f3n_of_system_and_configurati ? =>:
> > Recipient address rejected: User unknown in relay recipient table
> 
> 
> The client is trying to send to the address "Administrative?n of system
> and configurati" instead of some address like "listname at example.com"
> 
> This is strictly a mail client issue. It has nothing to do with Mailman
> as far as I can see.
> 
> 
> I do not understand what "the client has set the name of the big
> personal information does not commands" means, but perhaps this has
> something to do with it.
> 
> > If I send from squirrelmail works fine.
> > 
> > If the name of the account of the personal information I set it up
> > shorter length also works perfect.
> > 
> > Is there any length limitation in name of the account between the
> > mail client and mailman?
> 
> 
> Are you saying the list name is "Administrative?n of system and
> configurati..."?  If so, the list name can't contain spaces, but there
> is no Mailman limitation on the length of the listname.

The problem is:

Send mail to the list allusers at domain.com from a mail account that is admsistinf at domain.com.

Admsist at dap.es account is configured in Thunderbird with the option name as Management Information Systems (which in your account would be Mark Sapiro).

This works from squirrelmail, but since thunderbird fails.

However, if I set the name shorter, for example, systems management. Squirrelmail works both as thunderbird.

Also, tell you that this only occurs when a list command, as if I send a personal email from admsist at domain.com (named as Management of Information Systems) user1 at domain.com another user, it works fine.

Control occurs only when a mailing list.


> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 

        


From Geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Fri Jul 30 09:38:12 2010
From: Geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:38:12 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Someone to install Mailman?
References: <2578828F-AB40-435B-A9A2-27DCDD502BC8@fmams.org.il>
	<3861280413782@web100.yandex.ru>
Message-ID: <DE50D1D1D29340729BDFF3D54F1A9CF3@home>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "???????? ????????" <tolo8888 at yandex.ru>

----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/usr/local/mailmam/mail/mailman post test"
    (reason: 127)

Presumably this should be /usr/local/mailman, not /usr/local/mailmam.

Geoff.


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jul 30 17:16:59 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 08:16:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] limitation in name of the account between the
 mail client and mailman?
In-Reply-To: <20100730085712.f91e420b.etorres@dap.es>
References: <20100729123313.cbd43443.etorres@dap.es>	<4C524B8D.6070103@msapiro.net>
	<20100730085712.f91e420b.etorres@dap.es>
Message-ID: <4C52ECEB.9090005@msapiro.net>

On 7/29/2010 11:57 PM, Esteban Torres wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:48:29 -0700
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 7/29/2010 3:33 AM, Esteban Torres wrote:
>>>
>>> I get this error:
>>>
>>> July 29 11:53:10 2010 (29 383) All recipients Refused: ('=?
>>> Iso-8859-1? Q? Administrative = f3n_of_system_and_configurati? =':
[...]
>> The client is trying to send to the address "Administrative?n of system
>> and configurati" instead of some address like "listname at example.com"

[...]
> 
> The problem is:
> 
> Send mail to the list allusers at domain.com from a mail account that is admsistinf at domain.com.
> 
> Admsist at dap.es account is configured in Thunderbird with the option name as Management Information Systems (which in your account would be Mark Sapiro).
> 
> This works from squirrelmail, but since thunderbird fails.
> 
> However, if I set the name shorter, for example, systems management. Squirrelmail works both as thunderbird.
> 
> Also, tell you that this only occurs when a list command, as if I send a personal email from admsist at domain.com (named as Management of Information Systems) user1 at domain.com another user, it works fine.


Actually, I woke up last night thinking about this, and I realized what
is apparently happening.

This appears to be a Thunderbird bug, although you say it is also
occurring in Outlook Express so it may have something to do with the way
clients send mail from this computer.

I'm guessing this only occurs if you 'reply' to a list mail and not if
you generate an original mail to the list, but I could be wrong on that.

I think what happens is the original message has some header such as

Reply-To: Administrative?n of system and configurati?n <xx at example.com>

Because this header contains non ascii characters, it is RFC 2047
encoded as follows:

Reply-To: =?iso8859-1?Q?Administrative=f3n_of_system_and_configurati?=
 =?iso8859-1?Q?=f3n?= <xx at example.com>

Note that the "real name" is encoded as two encoded words, the second of
which is on a continuation line. This is because of the RFC 2047
requirement that "each line of a header field that contains one or more
'encoded-word's is limited to 76 characters".

Now, I think the problem occurs because the MUA (Thunderbird) does not
correctly RFC 2047 decode the header and extract the correct address,
but just takes the first part of the encoded value as the address.

In any case, This would appear to be strictly a client problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan