From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Mon Mar  1 06:11:14 2010
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan Foerster)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 06:11:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possibly OT: VERP to plussed addresses
Message-ID: <20100301051114.GA30905@mail.incertum.net>

I have noticed that Mailman seems to be capable to correctly parse
bounces that come from a plussed address. Example: I'm subscribed to
this list with

cite+mailman-users at example.net

so the sender address looks like this:

mailman-users-bounces+cite+mailman-users=example.net at python.org

While it's very nice that this is working - _why_ does it work? Does
Mailman simply start at the leftmost "+"?

Oh, and BTW: Happy "1st of a month", python.org listmasters! Enjoy your
bounces ;-)


Stefan

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  1 06:34:22 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 21:34:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possibly OT: VERP to plussed addresses
In-Reply-To: <20100301051114.GA30905@mail.incertum.net>
References: <20100301051114.GA30905@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <4B8B51DE.2090802@msapiro.net>

On 2/28/2010 9:11 PM, Stefan Foerster wrote:
> I have noticed that Mailman seems to be capable to correctly parse
> bounces that come from a plussed address. Example: I'm subscribed to
> this list with
> 
> cite+mailman-users at example.net
> 
> so the sender address looks like this:
> 
> mailman-users-bounces+cite+mailman-users=example.net at python.org
> 
> While it's very nice that this is working - _why_ does it work? Does
> Mailman simply start at the leftmost "+"?


The short answer is yes. For the long answer, see the definitions of
VERP_FORMAT and VERP_REGEXP in Defaults.py.


> Oh, and BTW: Happy "1st of a month", python.org listmasters! Enjoy your
> bounces ;-)


And a Happy Mailman Day to you too ;).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kremels at kreme.com  Mon Mar  1 07:27:29 2010
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 23:27:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possibly OT: VERP to plussed addresses
In-Reply-To: <4B8B51DE.2090802@msapiro.net>
References: <20100301051114.GA30905@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B8B51DE.2090802@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4B8B5E51.9050902@kreme.com>

On 28-Feb-10 22:34, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> And a Happy Mailman Day to you too;).

Sweet, does this mean I get the day off work?

-- 
And there were all the stars, looking remarkably like powered diamonds 
spilled on black velvet, the stars that lured and ultimately called the 
boldest towards them... --Colour of Magic

From aryanet at gmail.com  Mon Mar  1 15:03:00 2010
From: aryanet at gmail.com (Arya Mazaheri)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 17:33:00 +0330
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to reply to messages posted on mailman!!!
Message-ID: <c74b40f51003010603k7dd6bb7ubbb320cb755e4a83@mail.gmail.com>

Hello
I want to reply to a message that already posted on a mailing list
(mailman). but I don't know how? would you mind giving me a solution?

Best Regards
Arya Mazaheri

From dieterknopf at googlemail.com  Mon Mar  1 05:35:49 2010
From: dieterknopf at googlemail.com (Dieter Knopf)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 05:35:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman without Apache or webinterface on another
	Webserver (Debian)
Message-ID: <cd7460c21002282035m3e8cd2f8oba45696f23d5449b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

i use different servers for mail / web and because of that i can't use
mailman _with_ apache on the same server.

Is there any way to install the interface on another webserver?
Is there a debian-package without apache2-dependence?


Thanks

From jeremyc_15 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  1 06:55:49 2010
From: jeremyc_15 at hotmail.com (jeremy croft)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 21:55:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachment problems
Message-ID: <COL105-W94E42E4B69D83082E0F64FB3C0@phx.gbl>


I have a list serve with you and for some reason we can no longer send attachments through. Can you please help me to fix this issue? Thank you.Jeremy 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  1 16:11:30 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 07:11:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to reply to messages posted on mailman!!!
In-Reply-To: <c74b40f51003010603k7dd6bb7ubbb320cb755e4a83@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201003010711300125e330301b@msapiro>

Arya Mazaheri wrote:

>I want to reply to a message that already posted on a mailing list
>(mailman). but I don't know how? would you mind giving me a solution?


Go to the message in the list's archive and click the poster's (munged)
address. This should open your default MUA ready for your reply.

If you want to quote text, you have to copy/paste.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  1 16:23:16 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 07:23:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachment problems
In-Reply-To: <COL105-W94E42E4B69D83082E0F64FB3C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC1952010030107231607509a32273e@msapiro>

jeremy croft wrote:

>
>I have a list serve with you and for some reason we can no longer send attachments through. Can you please help me to fix this issue? Thank you.Jeremy 		 	   		  


You do not have a "list serv" [1] with us. We are the GNU Mailman
project, not LSoft.

You may have a Mailman list using our software, but it is not "with us"
unless it's address is @python.org.

Your issue, if it is a Mailman list, is with the list's content
filtering options. If you are not the list owner, you need to contact
the list owner at an address like listname-owner at listdomain where
listname at listdomain is the list's posting address and -owner is
literally that.

If you are the list owner, you need to adjust your list's Content
filtering settings (or turn of filter_content) in the list's web admin
interface to do what you want.



[1] Please do not refer to Mailman lists as 'listservs'. Listserv(r) is
a registered trademark[2] owned by the developer of a particular email
list management product, and it shouldn't be used generically.

My personal interest in this is not to protect the Listserv(r)
trademark, but rather to avoid confusing Listserv(r) email list
management software with any other email list management software
including GNU Mailman of which I am a developer.

[2] <http://www.lsoft.com/corporate/trademark.asp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jrc at clshost.com  Mon Mar  1 16:23:18 2010
From: jrc at clshost.com (J.R. Constance)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 10:23:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexplained unsubscribes of yahoo.com email
	addresses
Message-ID: <C838F650-100A-46AF-916D-0B0E12DC1D0B@clshost.com>

I run a few Mailman mailing lists (2.1.12cp3 - 42 lists with 500 subscribers max on each list) for a professional association that I belong to. Over the last three days I have had a series of unexplained unsubscribes from one of the lists, and almost all of the unsubscribed email addresses are yahoo.com addresses. None of the admins has done a mass removal, so is there any way for me to determine why these email addresses were unsubscribed? Anything in the log files?

This is the only list that I am seeing this on.

Thanks,

J.R.


J.R. Constance
Rodric Consulting, LLC
jrc at rodricon.com
Phone:  720.339.3646






From brian at emwd.com  Mon Mar  1 17:08:14 2010
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 11:08:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexplained unsubscribes of yahoo.com
	email	addresses
In-Reply-To: <C838F650-100A-46AF-916D-0B0E12DC1D0B@clshost.com>
References: <C838F650-100A-46AF-916D-0B0E12DC1D0B@clshost.com>
Message-ID: <014e01cab959$672498c0$356dca40$@com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org [mailto:mailman-
> users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of J.R. Constance
> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 10:23 AM
> To: Mailman Users
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexplained unsubscribes of yahoo.com email
> addresses
> 
> I run a few Mailman mailing lists (2.1.12cp3 - 42 lists with 500
> subscribers max on each list) for a professional association that I
> belong to. Over the last three days I have had a series of unexplained
> unsubscribes from one of the lists, and almost all of the unsubscribed
> email addresses are yahoo.com addresses. None of the admins has done a
> mass removal, so is there any way for me to determine why these email
> addresses were unsubscribed? Anything in the log files?
> 
> This is the only list that I am seeing this on.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> J.R.
> 
> 
> J.R. Constance
> Rodric Consulting, LLC
> jrc at rodricon.com
> Phone:  720.339.3646
> 

You can check your mail log to see if you are seeing a high number of Yahoo!
deferrals. If so then those deferrals may be behind those unsubscribes,
especially if they have been unsubscribed due to excessive bounces. Checking
the mailman/logs/subscribe log should show you the reason behind these
recent unsubscribes.

Brian
http://mailmanhost.com



From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Mon Mar  1 17:11:14 2010
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 16:11:14 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexplained unsubscribes of yahoo.com
	email	addresses
In-Reply-To: <C838F650-100A-46AF-916D-0B0E12DC1D0B@clshost.com>
References: <C838F650-100A-46AF-916D-0B0E12DC1D0B@clshost.com>
Message-ID: <20100301161114.GL2936@amyl.org.uk>

On Mon, Mar 01, 2010 at 10:23:18AM -0500, J.R. Constance wrote:
> almost all of the unsubscribed email addresses are yahoo.com
> addresses. 

Do you have 'special' retry conditions for Yahoo-hosted domains, in
your MTA?

If not, you may want something, q.v., exim-users' archive (and
probably elsewhere, too), for some background/suggestions.


-- 
"A traitor may betray himself and do good that he does not intend"
    -- J. R. R. Tolkien

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  1 17:11:09 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 08:11:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexplained unsubscribes of yahoo.com
	emailaddresses
In-Reply-To: <C838F650-100A-46AF-916D-0B0E12DC1D0B@clshost.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520100301081109059310f7681a@msapiro>

J.R. Constance wrote:

>I run a few Mailman mailing lists (2.1.12cp3 - 42 lists with 500 subscribers max on each list) for a professional association that I belong to. Over the last three days I have had a series of unexplained unsubscribes from one of the lists, and almost all of the unsubscribed email addresses are yahoo.com addresses. None of the admins has done a mass removal, so is there any way for me to determine why these email addresses were unsubscribed? Anything in the log files?


Check Mailman's bounce and subscribe logs.

This could be a result Yahoo rejecting mail from your server and
tighter bounce processing settings or more posts to the affected list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Mar  1 17:14:13 2010
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 17:14:13 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexplained unsubscribes of yahoo.com email
 addresses
In-Reply-To: <014e01cab959$672498c0$356dca40$@com>
References: <C838F650-100A-46AF-916D-0B0E12DC1D0B@clshost.com>
	<014e01cab959$672498c0$356dca40$@com>
Message-ID: <20100301161413.GJ20095@charite.de>

* Brian Carpenter <brian at emwd.com>:

> You can check your mail log to see if you are seeing a high number of Yahoo!
> deferrals. If so then those deferrals may be behind those unsubscribes,
> especially if they have been unsubscribed due to excessive bounces. Checking
> the mailman/logs/subscribe log should show you the reason behind these
> recent unsubscribes.

Stuff like:

Mar 01 09:00:01 2010 (14075) bangpypers: deleted yogeshhkxxxxx at gmail.com; disabled address
Mar 01 09:00:01 2010 (14075) bangpypers: yogeshhkxxxxx at gmail.com auto-unsubscribed [reason: BYBOUNCE]
Mar 01 09:00:02 2010 (14075) pycon-av: smccxxxx at pbpost.com auto-unsubscribed [reason: BYBOUNCE]

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  1 17:24:10 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 08:24:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexplained unsubscribes of
	yahoo.comemail	addresses
In-Reply-To: <014e01cab959$672498c0$356dca40$@com>
Message-ID: <PC19520100301082410010937371437@msapiro>

Brian Carpenter wrote:
>
>You can check your mail log to see if you are seeing a high number of Yahoo!
>deferrals. If so then those deferrals may be behind those unsubscribes,


Yahoo deferrals should not cause this. The message should be simply
queued and retried in the MTA with no notification to Mailman. Even a
"delayed" message to Mailman (e.g., your message hasn't been delivered
for 4 hours - will keep trying) should not result in a bounce, and in
my experience, Yahoo always ultimately accepts the message before the
MTA gives up and returns failure to Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jrc at clshost.com  Mon Mar  1 17:32:15 2010
From: jrc at clshost.com (J.R. Constance)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 11:32:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexplained unsubscribes of yahoo.com email
	addresses
In-Reply-To: <20100301161413.GJ20095@charite.de>
References: <C838F650-100A-46AF-916D-0B0E12DC1D0B@clshost.com>
	<014e01cab959$672498c0$356dca40$@com>
	<20100301161413.GJ20095@charite.de>
Message-ID: <E919EA84-9560-469E-B8C4-4D5C6AE6F3F3@clshost.com>

Thanks to all. I appreciate the quick responses.

Subscribe log says:  [reason: BYBOUNCE]

and Bounce log says:  deleted after exhausting notices

I was surprised at these unsubscribes because it has been almost 4 weeks since any messages have gone out to this list, and I had removed any queued mail from the queue server several weeks ago.

J.R.

On Mar 1, 2010, at 11:14 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:

> * Brian Carpenter <brian at emwd.com>:
> 
>> You can check your mail log to see if you are seeing a high number of Yahoo!
>> deferrals. If so then those deferrals may be behind those unsubscribes,
>> especially if they have been unsubscribed due to excessive bounces. Checking
>> the mailman/logs/subscribe log should show you the reason behind these
>> recent unsubscribes.
> 
> Stuff like:
> 
> Mar 01 09:00:01 2010 (14075) bangpypers: deleted yogeshhkxxxxx at gmail.com; disabled address
> Mar 01 09:00:01 2010 (14075) bangpypers: yogeshhkxxxxx at gmail.com auto-unsubscribed [reason: BYBOUNCE]
> Mar 01 09:00:02 2010 (14075) pycon-av: smccxxxx at pbpost.com auto-unsubscribed [reason: BYBOUNCE]
> 
> -- 
> Ralf Hildebrandt
>  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
>  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
>  Campus Benjamin Franklin
>  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
>  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
>  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
> 	    
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jrc%40clshost.com


From brian at emwd.com  Mon Mar  1 17:34:30 2010
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 11:34:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexplained unsubscribes of
	yahoo.comemail	addresses
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100301082410010937371437@msapiro>
References: <014e01cab959$672498c0$356dca40$@com>
	<PC19520100301082410010937371437@msapiro>
Message-ID: <015201cab95d$12974100$37c5c300$@com>

> my experience, Yahoo always ultimately accepts the message before the
> MTA gives up and returns failure to Mailman.

We have a server where this problem is happening and in the case of this
particular server (being solely used by a single non-profit organization)
Yahoo is being VERY persistent in delaying their messages and they are
seeing Yahoo.com addresses being unsubsribed. We are in the process of
working with Yahoo in trying to get this server whitelisted with them.

Brian
http://mailmanhost.com



From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  1 17:41:19 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 08:41:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman without Apache or webinterface on
	anotherWebserver (Debian)
In-Reply-To: <cd7460c21002282035m3e8cd2f8oba45696f23d5449b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520100301084119023410f766bd@msapiro>

Dieter Knopf wrote:
>
>i use different servers for mail / web and because of that i can't use
>mailman _with_ apache on the same server.
>
>Is there any way to install the interface on another webserver?


Only by using NFS or another shared file system.

Your choices are:

1) Install Mailman on the mail server and use only email user
interfaces and command line admin tools. If you want web archives,
they can be handled by "external archivers". Or, install apache on the
mail server for Mailman only.

2) Install Mailman on the web server. outgoing mail to the mail server
is no problem. Incoming mail can be handled by fetchmail/procmail from
the mail server or an MTA on the web server for Mailman only with
relay from the mail server.


>Is there a debian-package without apache2-dependence?


I doubt it, but you can always install Mailman from source.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  1 17:58:47 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 08:58:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexplained unsubscribes of yahoo.com email
	addresses
In-Reply-To: <015201cab95d$12974100$37c5c300$@com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010030108584705939a3226c0@msapiro>

Brian Carpenter wrote:
>
>We have a server where this problem is happening and in the case of this
>particular server (being solely used by a single non-profit organization)
>Yahoo is being VERY persistent in delaying their messages and they are
>seeing Yahoo.com addresses being unsubsribed. We are in the process of
>working with Yahoo in trying to get this server whitelisted with them.


Very persistent as in delaying for more than 5 days, or is your MTA's
retry period shorter than that?

I'm sure you know what's happening in your case; maybe I'm just lucky,
but I think my Yahoo deferrals/retries always succeed within way less
than 24 hours.

<rant>
I think Yahoo is wrong in this. If the deferrals are a form of
greylisting, there's no point in deferring more than once. One delayed
retry proves the sending MTA is going to retry and subsequent
deferrals are pointless. On the other hand, if they're never going to
accept the mail, they should reject it outright with a 5xx. The only
result from deferring multiple times and then accepting is to cause
problems for their users resulting from delayed mail and to waste
network resources with all the unnecessary retries.
</rant>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  1 18:08:20 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 09:08:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexplained unsubscribes of yahoo.com
	emailaddresses
In-Reply-To: <E919EA84-9560-469E-B8C4-4D5C6AE6F3F3@clshost.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201003010908200796b15e68f0@msapiro>

J.R. Constance wrote:
>
>I was surprised at these unsubscribes because it has been almost 4 weeks since any messages have gone out to this list, and I had removed any queued mail from the queue server several weeks ago.


The bouncing member's delivery is disabled by bounce processing and if
requested a notice of the disable with the triggering bounce attached
is sent to the list owner. From that point forward, the process is
totally controlled by cron/disabled. Posts or the lack thereof are
irrelevant. If the member's delivery is not re-enabled manually by the
member or a list admin, the member will be unsubscribed after
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings times
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval days (default 21).

Thus, when a member is unsubscribed by bounce processing this normally
occurs weeks after the member's delivery was disabled.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brian at emwd.com  Mon Mar  1 18:08:33 2010
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 12:08:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexplained unsubscribes of yahoo.com email
	addresses
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010030108584705939a3226c0@msapiro>
References: <015201cab95d$12974100$37c5c300$@com>
	<PC1952010030108584705939a3226c0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <015701cab961$d48717f0$7d9547d0$@com>

> Brian Carpenter wrote:
> >
> >We have a server where this problem is happening and in the case of
> this
> >particular server (being solely used by a single non-profit
> organization)
> >Yahoo is being VERY persistent in delaying their messages and they are
> >seeing Yahoo.com addresses being unsubsribed. We are in the process of
> >working with Yahoo in trying to get this server whitelisted with them.
> 
> 
> Very persistent as in delaying for more than 5 days, or is your MTA's
> retry period shorter than that?
> 
> I'm sure you know what's happening in your case; maybe I'm just lucky,
> but I think my Yahoo deferrals/retries always succeed within way less
> than 24 hours.
> 
> <rant>
> I think Yahoo is wrong in this. If the deferrals are a form of
> greylisting, there's no point in deferring more than once. One delayed
> retry proves the sending MTA is going to retry and subsequent
> deferrals are pointless. On the other hand, if they're never going to
> accept the mail, they should reject it outright with a 5xx. The only
> result from deferring multiple times and then accepting is to cause
> problems for their users resulting from delayed mail and to waste
> network resources with all the unnecessary retries.
> </rant>
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

For cPanel servers the default is 4 days which is what we use. For this
particular client, they have over a hundred active discussion mailing lists.
They are small lists in regards to members but they are active and the mail
queue just keeps filling up due to Yahoo! terrible deferral policies.

Totally agree with your rant. Right on target.

Regards,
Brian Carpenter
http://mailmanhost.com


From jrc at clshost.com  Mon Mar  1 18:24:20 2010
From: jrc at clshost.com (J.R. Constance)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 12:24:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexplained unsubscribes of yahoo.com
	emailaddresses
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003010908200796b15e68f0@msapiro>
References: <PC195201003010908200796b15e68f0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <76D70940-2AF9-4D3B-9D55-35F21F9F90BD@clshost.com>

Thanks Mark.

As I looked back through the Bounce log I can see the history for what you describe below; multiple bounce notifications, account disabled after ~2 weeks, then account unsubscribed after another two weeks.

Is there another log that would show the response(s) from yahoo.com, either a deferral or rejection?

On Mar 1, 2010, at 12:08 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> J.R. Constance wrote:
>> 
>> I was surprised at these unsubscribes because it has been almost 4 weeks since any messages have gone out to this list, and I had removed any queued mail from the queue server several weeks ago.
> 
> 
> The bouncing member's delivery is disabled by bounce processing and if
> requested a notice of the disable with the triggering bounce attached
> is sent to the list owner. From that point forward, the process is
> totally controlled by cron/disabled. Posts or the lack thereof are
> irrelevant. If the member's delivery is not re-enabled manually by the
> member or a list admin, the member will be unsubscribed after
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings times
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval days (default 21).
> 
> Thus, when a member is unsubscribed by bounce processing this normally
> occurs weeks after the member's delivery was disabled.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 


From dnewman at networktest.com  Mon Mar  1 18:50:23 2010
From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 09:50:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one-click subscription
In-Reply-To: <4B8B51DE.2090802@msapiro.net>
References: <20100301051114.GA30905@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B8B51DE.2090802@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4B8BFE5F.60807@networktest.com>

For a read-only announcement list, I'm looking for a way to set up
"one-click subscription" where a user enters an email in a form on a web
page and gets subscribed right away, with no confirmation needed.

Thanks in advance for clues on setting this up with MM, Apache and postfix.

Apologies in advance if this has been asked before. I didn't see
anything specific in the FAQ or in a quick check of the archives.

dn



From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  1 18:52:30 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 09:52:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexplained unsubscribes of
	yahoo.comemailaddresses
In-Reply-To: <76D70940-2AF9-4D3B-9D55-35F21F9F90BD@clshost.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010030109523002349a322548@msapiro>

J.R. Constance wrote:
>
>As I looked back through the Bounce log I can see the history for what you describe below; multiple bounce notifications, account disabled after ~2 weeks, then account unsubscribed after another two weeks.
>
>Is there another log that would show the response(s) from yahoo.com, either a deferral or rejection?


Your MTA's logs will have some information. Note that the actual bounce
delivered to Mailman may have occurred up to 15 minutes prior to the
entry in Mailman's bounce log because Mailman queues bounces and
processes them in batches.

Also, you will probably find in your MTA logs that there was some
delivery attempted to Yahoo which was rejected by Yahoo with a reason
shown in the log and this was followed by your MTA sending a DSN to
the listname-bounces address. In this case, you have Yahoo's response
in your MTA's log.

You may find however that the DSN sent to the listname-bounces address
came from Yahoo. In this case, the only way to know the reason is to
see the actual DSN which is not logged anywhere. If the list's
bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is Yes, it was sent to the list
owner(s) when the disable occurred, but it isn't logged.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Mon Mar  1 19:24:42 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 20:24:42 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one-click subscription
In-Reply-To: <4B8BFE5F.60807@networktest.com>
References: <20100301051114.GA30905@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B8B51DE.2090802@msapiro.net> <4B8BFE5F.60807@networktest.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1003012017020.2721@data.home>

On Mon, 1 Mar 2010, David Newman wrote:

> For a read-only announcement list, I'm looking for a way to set up
> "one-click subscription" where a user enters an email in a form on a web
> page and gets subscribed right away, with no confirmation needed.

Note that you're going to open yorself up to the problem of people being 
gratuitously subscribed to your list.  That's why we have double opt-in.

There's a disturbing trend these days of people reporting mailing lists as 
spam to their providers instead of unsubscribing.  This can get you 
blacklisted.  It happens enough with lists that people actually 
voluntarily subscribed to, it's going to  be a lot worse if you get people 
being randomly subscribed without their consent.

Geoff.


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  1 19:34:20 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 10:34:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one-click subscription
In-Reply-To: <4B8BFE5F.60807@networktest.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201003011034200281aef7466d@msapiro>

David Newman wrote:

>For a read-only announcement list, I'm looking for a way to set up
>"one-click subscription" where a user enters an email in a form on a web
>page and gets subscribed right away, with no confirmation needed.


This is not a good idea. It allows anyone to subscribe anyone else to
your list without the subscribed person's knowledge or consent. Do you
really want to do this?


If you do, there are two ways.

You can set

ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = Yes

in mm_cfg.py and then set the list's Privacy options... -> Subscription
rules -> subscribe_policy to None, and create your subscribe form per
the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/hIA9>.

Or, you can create a web page that either invokes curl or wget or posts
it's own data to the admin CGI as outlined in posts linked from the
FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/uIA9>.


However, if what you want is for people to be able to subscribe without
further interaction on their part, you might consider just setting
subscribe_policy to Approve and having subscriptions approved by an
admin or moderator. This isn't much better, but at least it allows the
admin to detect a suspicious pattern.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dnewman at networktest.com  Mon Mar  1 20:28:49 2010
From: dnewman at networktest.com (David Newman)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 11:28:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one-click subscription
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003011034200281aef7466d@msapiro>
References: <PC195201003011034200281aef7466d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B8C1571.9050602@networktest.com>

On 3/1/10 10:34 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> David Newman wrote:
> 
>> For a read-only announcement list, I'm looking for a way to set up
>> "one-click subscription" where a user enters an email in a form on a web
>> page and gets subscribed right away, with no confirmation needed.
> 
> 
> This is not a good idea. It allows anyone to subscribe anyone else to
> your list without the subscribed person's knowledge or consent. Do you
> really want to do this?
> 
> 
> If you do, there are two ways.
> 
> You can set
> 
> ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = Yes
> 
> in mm_cfg.py and then set the list's Privacy options... -> Subscription
> rules -> subscribe_policy to None, and create your subscribe form per
> the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/hIA9>.
> 
> Or, you can create a web page that either invokes curl or wget or posts
> it's own data to the admin CGI as outlined in posts linked from the
> FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/uIA9>.
> 
> 
> However, if what you want is for people to be able to subscribe without
> further interaction on their part, you might consider just setting
> subscribe_policy to Approve and having subscriptions approved by an
> admin or moderator. This isn't much better, but at least it allows the
> admin to detect a suspicious pattern.

OK, thanks. Thinking about this some more, it does seem like an
excellent way to subscribe users who never asked to hear from us. I'll
recommend to our team that we at least get confirmation before proceeding.

dn




From terri at zone12.com  Mon Mar  1 21:29:56 2010
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 15:29:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one-click subscription
In-Reply-To: <4B8C1571.9050602@networktest.com>
References: <PC195201003011034200281aef7466d@msapiro>
	<4B8C1571.9050602@networktest.com>
Message-ID: <4B8C23C4.4000609@zone12.com>

David Newman wrote:
> On 3/1/10 10:34 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> David Newman wrote:
>>> For a read-only announcement list, I'm looking for a way to set up
>>> "one-click subscription" where a user enters an email in a form on a web
>>> page and gets subscribed right away, with no confirmation needed.
>> This is not a good idea. It allows anyone to subscribe anyone else to
>> your list without the subscribed person's knowledge or consent. Do you
>> really want to do this?
> OK, thanks. Thinking about this some more, it does seem like an
> excellent way to subscribe users who never asked to hear from us. I'll
> recommend to our team that we at least get confirmation before proceeding.

Also, you should note that in some places anti-spam laws make it illegal 
to operate mailing lists that only require one-click subscription.  My 
slightly fuzzy memory says the laws surrounding this were most strict in 
Germany, but I wouldn't be surprised if other countries require 
confirmation before someone can be put on a mailing list.

  Terri

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Mon Mar  1 21:36:09 2010
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 13:36:09 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexplained unsubscribes of yahoo.com email
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010030108584705939a3226c0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <201003012036.o21Ka9gK004496@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Mark Sapiro has said:
> 
> Very persistent as in delaying for more than 5 days, or is your MTA's
> retry period shorter than that?
> 
> I'm sure you know what's happening in your case; maybe I'm just lucky,
> but I think my Yahoo deferrals/retries always succeed within way less
> than 24 hours.
> 
> <rant>
> I think Yahoo is wrong in this. If the deferrals are a form of
> greylisting, there's no point in deferring more than once. One delayed
> retry proves the sending MTA is going to retry and subsequent
> deferrals are pointless. On the other hand, if they're never going to
> accept the mail, they should reject it outright with a 5xx. The only
> result from deferring multiple times and then accepting is to cause
> problems for their users resulting from delayed mail and to waste
> network resources with all the unnecessary retries.
> </rant>
> 
I recognize this pattern in dealing with several of the large
recipient sites.  Can't recall now, but I think yahoo, hotmail, and
verizon all pulled this stunt, and what's happening is not obvious to
the Mailman admin who does not have access to sender site logs.
I'm using sendmail as MTA, so this scenario is what happens with
sendmail.

Rather than bounce the mail with a 5.x.x DSN the recipient site defers
with a 4.x.x DSN.  Mailman, as an MUA, receives notices sent to
listname-bounces that the mail is being deferred, but unless Mailman
is set to deliver those messages to the admin, they vanish.  

The MTA has a timeout (sendmail default is 5 days, I reset to 3) after
which it discards mail from the queue and sends a bounce message,
which gets processed.  After receiving bounces for N days, Mailman 
sets the address nomail-by-bounce.  It becomes obvious to the Mailman
admin when the bounce processor sends the bounce notices.  Generally,
the bounce reminders also get blocked by deferral, so Mailman
unsubscribes the acount after the waiting period.

To put the frosting on the cake, the recipient doesn't get the "you've
been unsubscribed" message, either.

In a couple of cases, the bounce messages sent to the sendmail log 
will start having http links in the message.  Only the site
administrator who is reading the MTA logs gets to see that, and it's
sporadic---not every deferral message has that included.  The link is
generally to a URL for getting the sender site whitelisted with the
big mail operation.

Needless to say, the whole thing is pretty invisible to both a Mailman
administrator and the recipients.  In the meantime, the MTA queues get
filled up, the addresses get retried at regular intervals.  Consider 5
days of deferrals before the first bounces to Mailman, three more for
Mailman to set the user nomail, then three more weeks to the
unsubscribe.  And of course, the days of deferrals and retries make
the mail list look like a spam generator.

We're set up here to discard unrecognized bounce messages (that
address is a prime spam target), but to get bounce and unsubscribe
notices.  

Hank


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  1 22:27:08 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 13:27:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexplained unsubscribes of yahoo.com email
In-Reply-To: <201003012036.o21Ka9gK004496@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201003011327080375b15e673f@msapiro>

Hank van Cleef wrote:
>
>Rather than bounce the mail with a 5.x.x DSN the recipient site defers
>with a 4.x.x DSN.  Mailman, as an MUA, receives notices sent to
>listname-bounces that the mail is being deferred, but unless Mailman
>is set to deliver those messages to the admin, they vanish.  


If it is a 4.x.x delayed message, and Mailman recognizes it, it is
ignored. There is no setting to deliver it to anyone, unless it is
unrecognized.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at list.org  Tue Mar  2 03:40:26 2010
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 21:40:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Announce] New Logo Contest for 2010
In-Reply-To: <20100115100711.5e690a0a@freewill>
References: <20100115100711.5e690a0a@freewill>
Message-ID: <20100301214026.24dc8cd6@freewill.wooz.org>

On Jan 15, 2010, at 10:07 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:

>Our current GNU Mailman logos were designed by the Dragon De Monsyne many
>years ago.  They have served us exceedingly well, but with the coming of
>Mailman 3, we've decided it's time our logos got a face lift.  So we're
>opening up a new logo contest to the Mailman and GNU communities.  We invite
>your creative and inspiring designs!
>
>Details of the contest and submission guidelines are available here:
>
>http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/NewLogo
>
>Submissions will be open until February 28, 2010, and is open to everyone, so
>feel free to forward this announcement.  Please contact the Mailman Steering
>Committee at mailman-cabal at python.org with any questions.

Due to some confusion about posting permissions, we've decided to keep the
logo contest open for two more weeks.  We've got a number of really good ones,
but your chance at fame is not yet past.

We'll close the contest on Monday March 15 at 2200 UTC (don't forget DST in
the US starts on March 14).

Just to clarify: if you still want to submit a logo, you need to create an
account on wiki.list.org and send us (mailman-cabal at python.org) your wiki user
id so that we can enable your write access.  Sorry for the convolution but
that's the price of spam reduction.

Cheers,
-Barry

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 835 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100301/0d1b47ea/attachment.pgp>

From barry at list.org  Tue Mar  2 04:24:24 2010
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 22:24:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wiki scheduled downtime
Message-ID: <20100301222424.09684da6@freewill.wooz.org>

Just a quick announcement to let you know that wiki.list.org is scheduled to
be off-line for upgrades starting at 2200 UTC on Friday, March 19, 2010.
Total downtime is not known, as they will be upgrading us to the latest
version and it's a big upgrade.

Cheers,
-Barry

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 835 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100301/792bf8b0/attachment.pgp>

From kremels at kreme.com  Tue Mar  2 07:37:14 2010
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 23:37:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one-click subscription
In-Reply-To: <4B8BFE5F.60807@networktest.com>
References: <20100301051114.GA30905@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B8B51DE.2090802@msapiro.net> <4B8BFE5F.60807@networktest.com>
Message-ID: <9AF3BBC2-1776-4C22-81F9-AA79F6E01869@kreme.com>

On 1-Mar-2010, at 10:50, David Newman wrote:
> 
> For a read-only announcement list, I'm looking for a way to set up
> "one-click subscription" where a user enters an email in a form on a web
> page and gets subscribed right away, with no confirmation needed.

Please let me know the domain(s) these lists will be hosted on so I can add them to my local blacklist.

-- 
The voice of the majority is no proof of justice.


From kremels at kreme.com  Tue Mar  2 07:43:40 2010
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 23:43:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexplained unsubscribes of yahoo.com email
	addresses
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010030108584705939a3226c0@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010030108584705939a3226c0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <74CF9832-A6E4-4D7F-81AE-A93411E9301A@kreme.com>

On 1-Mar-2010, at 09:58, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> I think Yahoo is wrong in this.

Oh yeah, there's no question at all that Yahoo has their proverbial head up their backsides.

But they are a large enough gorilla that they don't have to care.

I am happy to say that I've convinced many people to switch from Yahoo to another mail service simply by showing them logs of the crap yahoo pulls.


-- 
"As God as my witness, I though turkeys could fly," Arthur Carlson,
	WKRP in Cincinnati


From cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  Tue Mar  2 12:41:35 2010
From: cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com (Cedric Jeanneret)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 12:41:35 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <4B880FB1.4080804@msapiro.net>
References: <20100225152716.65d658c4@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<PC195201002251708060671e1865d25@msapiro>
	<20100226132029.7afa688f@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<4B880FB1.4080804@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20100302124135.3a765745@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:15:13 -0800
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 2/26/2010 4:20 AM, Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
> > On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:08:06 -0800 Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
> > wrote:
> > 
> >> Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> I'm trying to create a xapian[1] indexer for our mailing list. As
> >>> mailman is written in Python and there are python bindings for
> >>> xapian, I guess I can maybe create a plugin for that. My first
> >>> question is : is there already such a thing ? I searched on the
> >>> net, but nothing appeared My second one : can we create a plugin
> >>> for mailman, if so, where should I go to have some doc ? seems
> >>> there's nothing in the wiki
> >>> (http://wiki.list.org/dosearchsite.action?searchQuery.queryString=plugin&searchQuery.spaceKey=conf_all)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 
> Just to explain why I'd like to do that: we already have a xapian search
> engine in here, indexing a fileserver, request tracker queues and
> moinmoin wikis... so we'd like to aggregate all our stuff in one app for
> searching.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> This will be quite doable with Mailman 3 which is still in
> >> development.
> >> 
> >> There are problems trying to do this in Mailman 2.1.x. There is a 
> >> plugin capability of sorts in the form of custom handlers that can
> >> be added to the incoming message processing pipeline. See the FAQ
> >> at <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>. However, archiving is
> >> asynchronous with incoming message processing, so it is not
> >> possible for a custom handler to know the URL that will ultimately
> >> retrieve the message from the archive.
> >> 
> >> A different approach which might be workable is to use the 
> >> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER hooks. If
> >> you set
> >> 
> >> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/path/to/script.py' 
> >> PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/path/to/script.py'
> >> 
> >> in mm_cfg.py, then that script will be invoked do do the archiving.
> >> The script in turn could invoke the standard pipermail archiving
> >> process and then invoke xapian to index the archived message.
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > Hello again,
> > 
> > Just one question : what do mlist, msg, msgdata stand for ? As I read
> > I've to create my module and define a "process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> > inside it, I'd like to know what are those objects. I discovered that
> > mlist stands for a Mailman.MailList.MailList('list-name'), but for
> > the others, it's a bit hard to find...
> 
> 
> Only custom handlers need to define process(mlist, msg, msgdata). That
> is the entry point to the handler and three objects are passed
> 
> mlist is the Mailman.MailList.MailList() instance for the current list
> 
> msg is a Mailman.Message.Message() (subclass of email.Message.Message)
>     instance for the current message
> 
> msgdata is a dictionary of the message metadata accumulated so far.
> 
> The important thing is these are passed in as arguments to the handler
> process() function.
> 
> In your case, you are defining a module which is going to be invoked
> like the following.
> 
> Suppose that
> 
> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/path/to/myarch.py %(hostname)s %listname)s'
> 
> It will be invoked in a pipe similar to
> 
> cat raw_message | /path/to/myarch.py HOST LIST
> 
> i.e. the command string with %(hostname)s and %listname)s replaced by
> the actual host name and list name of the list will be invoked and the
> message piped to it.
> 
> So, it could begin something like:
> 
> #!python
> import sys
> sys.path.insert(0, 'path/to/mailman/bin')
> # The above line can be skipped if myarch.py is in Mailman's
> # bin directory.
> import paths
> 
> import email
> from Mailman import MailList
> from Mailman import Message
> 
> msg = email.message_from_file(sys.stdin, Message.Message)
> mlist = MailList.MailList(sys.argv[1], lock=True)
> 
> 
> At this point, you have a list object (locked) and a message object. You
> might think you could just do
> 
> mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
> 
> to archive the mail to the listname.mbox file and the pipermail archive,
> but that wouldn't quite work because that method would re-invoke the
> external archiver. Also, you don't need to worry about the listname.mbox
> file because the ArchiveMail() method already did that before invoking
> the external archiver, so what you would need is
> 
> from Mailman.Archiver import HyperArch
> from cStringIO import StringIO
> f = StringIO(str(msg))
> h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(mlist)
> h.processUnixMailbox(f)
> h.close()
> f.close()
> 
> Which is what the ArchiveMail() method would do. Now you still have the
> mlist and msg objects, and you need to save and unlock the list at some
> point
> 
> mlist.Save()
> mlist.Unlock()
> 
> and the message is now in the pipermail archive and can be indexed.
> 

Hello again,

I'm having some troubles with my code. According to what Mark said, I've done this :

#!/usr/bin/env python
import sys
sys.path.insert(0,'/usr/lib/mailman')

import syslog

syslog.syslog('begin script')

import email
from Mailman import MailList
from Mailman import Message
## archive part
from Mailman.Archiver import HyperArch
from cStringIO import StringIO

maillist = sys.argv[2]
hostname = sys.argv[1]

msg = email.message_from_file(sys.stdin, Message.Message)
syslog.syslog(maillist)

mlist = MailList.MailList(maillist, lock=True)

syslog.syslog('processing archiver')
## let archive it
f = StringIO(str(msg))
h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(mlist)
h.processUnixMailbox(f)
h.close()
f.close()
mlist.Save()
mlist.Unlock()

mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)

syslog.syslog('processing indexer')
### coming soon

syslog.syslog('exiting - all ok')
sys.exit(0)

"syslog" is for debug purpose only.

And if I send an email on my ML, I have this kind of error:

Mar 02 12:38:33 2010 (28380) toto.lock lifetime has expired, breaking
Mar 02 12:38:33 2010 (28380)   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 250, in <module>
Mar 02 12:38:33 2010 (28380)     run_main()
Mar 02 12:38:33 2010 (28380)   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 110, in run_main
Mar 02 12:38:33 2010 (28380)     main()
Mar 02 12:38:33 2010 (28380)   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 167, in main
Mar 02 12:38:33 2010 (28380)     mlist.Lock()
Mar 02 12:38:33 2010 (28380)   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 161, in Lock
Mar 02 12:38:33 2010 (28380)     self.__lock.lock(timeout)
Mar 02 12:38:33 2010 (28380)   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 306, in lock
Mar 02 12:38:33 2010 (28380)     important=True)
Mar 02 12:38:33 2010 (28380)   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 416, in __writelog
Mar 02 12:38:33 2010 (28380)     traceback.print_stack(file=logf)

This block is spamming my /var/log/mailman/locks

It seems I have a problem with the lockfile... 

Any idea ?

Thank you!



-- 
C?dric Jeanneret                 |  System Administrator
021 619 10 32                    |  Camptocamp SA
cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  |  PSE-A / EPFL
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 197 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100302/fdb10c74/attachment.pgp>

From Marco.vanKammen at springer.com  Tue Mar  2 13:33:00 2010
From: Marco.vanKammen at springer.com (Kammen van, Marco, Springer SBM NL)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 13:33:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outlook Vote Buttons vs Mailman
Message-ID: <E0102EFB6FBB574BBF3EA287E822ADCB0BC2E4@SENLDOGO0144.springer-sbm.com>

Dear List, 

 

I had a interesting case today where a user didn't see the Voting
buttons in a E-mail where other colleagues did.

When doing some digging this user got the mail via a Mailman list...

 

Is it correct to assume that as soon as a message leaves the Exchange
system and is processed by another mailer with Mailman, that voting
buttons created in Outlook are cut off?

If so are there any known solutions for this?

 

Thanks!  

 

- 

Marco van Kammen
Springer Science+Business Media
System Manager & Postmaster 

- 

van Godewijckstraat 30 | 3311 GX
Office Number: 05E21 
Dordrecht | The Netherlands 

-  

tel 

 +31(78)6576446

fax 

 +31(78)6576302

- 

www.springeronline.com <http://www.springeronline.com>  
www.springer.com <http://www.springer.com/> 

- 

 

 


From cpz at tuunq.com  Tue Mar  2 18:59:18 2010
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 09:59:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outlook Vote Buttons vs Mailman
In-Reply-To: <E0102EFB6FBB574BBF3EA287E822ADCB0BC2E4@SENLDOGO0144.springer-sbm.com>
References: <E0102EFB6FBB574BBF3EA287E822ADCB0BC2E4@SENLDOGO0144.springer-sbm.com>
Message-ID: <4B8D51F6.8070707@tuunq.com>

On 3/2/2010 4:33 AM, Kammen van, Marco, Springer SBM NL wrote:
> Is it correct to assume that as soon as a message leaves the Exchange
> system and is processed by another mailer with Mailman, that voting
> buttons created in Outlook are cut off?

If the voting buttons are implemented with html (or other scripting) and 
anything in the processing chain strips html/etc, then they're gone. Could 
be mailman, could be the recipient's mail reader, could be something else.

> If so are there any known solutions for this?
Either don't, or more selectively, scrub html. Or, don't use Outlook 
(someone has to say it).

It's also possible that the use in question has certain display 'features' 
disabled, and that prevented the voting buttons from appearing.  (For 
example, I have my email set up to never display html email unless I 
specifically ask for it.)

z!

From rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov  Tue Mar  2 19:22:22 2010
From: rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov (Rosenbaum, Larry M.)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 13:22:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suppressing "To post a message" on listinfo page
Message-ID: <43C68785C2728049AF86B0ECB240A15113724FDA29@EXCHMB.ornl.gov>

The listinfo page for every list has a line that says:

"To post a message to all the list members, send email to" followed by the email address.  This may be confusing for announce-only lists where members aren't allowed to post.  Is there an option to suppress this text on a per-list basis?  If not, I'd like to suggest it as a feature request.

Thanks,
Larry

From thomas at ifi.uio.no  Tue Mar  2 17:41:13 2010
From: thomas at ifi.uio.no (Thomas Gramstad)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 17:41:13 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wildcard syntax for spam-filtering?
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1003021737080.31960@ben.ifi.uio.no>

I want to add a spam filter rule that automatically deletes all
mail from all subdomains of com.br. I have tried the syntaxes
from: .*@com.br
and
from: .*@*.com.br ,
but neither seems to work.

Thomas Gramstad

From mkawada at redhat.com  Tue Mar  2 09:21:02 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:21:02 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments are unexpectedly re-created.
Message-ID: <4B8CCA6E.9050305@redhat.com>

Dear list,

I am kind of new to use mailman on administrative, so if this is
an known issue I'm sorry. I would very much appreciate it if you
would kindly answer my questions.

Firtst of all, one of my customer wanted to delete attachments to
make more disk spaces on the server. The server's disk resource
was getting full because the size of the directory for attachments
was very big. So the customer did the following works first.

Digest options -> Disabled(Digestable 'NO')
Archiving options -> Disabled(Archive 'NO')

Secondly, after the above, the customer deleted directories located
under the following directory such as 20091201, 20091202 and so on.

/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/<list name>/attachments/<date>

# rm -rf 20091201,20091202,.....
 
Finaly, the customer got the "Digest options" and "Archiving options"
back to enabled as follows.

Digest options -> Enabled(Digestable 'YES')
Archiving options -> Enabled(Archive 'YES')

With this operations, the directories under attachments directory
were deleted and the disk space is now enough, however, by unknown
timing, directories that are named with past's date, which were
manually deleted, are re-created automatically. And in that 
directories, it seems that the same attachment files are repeatly
created.

One thing that I realized to stop this weird action is to disable
both "Digest options" and "Archiving options". Once those options
are disabled, no more unexpected attachment files would be created
under that directory. 

To know what was going on to the mailman server at that moment
(in the meantime of the unexpected action), I asked the customer
for logs such as error log in /var/log/mailman direcoty, and 
in the error log, I saw the following errors regarding "send_digests".

---
xxx xx xx:xx:xx 2010 (2129) send_digests() failed: EUC-JP decoding error:
invalid character ......
xxx xx xx:xx:xx 2010 (2129) send_digests() failed: EUC-JP decoding error:
invalid character ......
xxx xx xx:xx:xx 2010 (2129) send_digests() failed: EUC-JP decoding error:
invalid character ......
---

I have not yet been sure if these errors are related to the cuase,
but it seems that "send_digests()" appearently fails and retries
repeatly.

My questions this time are as follows.

1.Why are attachment files re-created? Is it a normal action whenever
  "Digest options" and "Archiving options" are available?

2.If the answer for the question 1 is "NO", what could be the cause?
  The fail of send_digests() is it?

3.Does the send_digests() repeat(retry) if the action fails?

4.Is there anything else that should be done after deleting attachments
   manually to avoid being suffered this weird behavior?


---Environment---
OS:RHEL5
postfix-2.3.3-2.1.el5_2
mailman-2.1.9-4.el5

Any comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Sincerely,


-- 
-------------------
Masaharu Kawada
Associate Technical Support Engineer
Red Hat K K
Ebisu Neonato 5F
1-18 Ebisu 4-chome, Shibuya-ku
Tokyo 150-0013, Japan
Direct: +81-3-5798-8482


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar  2 20:34:25 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 11:34:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <20100302124135.3a765745@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
References: <20100225152716.65d658c4@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	<PC195201002251708060671e1865d25@msapiro>	<20100226132029.7afa688f@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	<4B880FB1.4080804@msapiro.net>
	<20100302124135.3a765745@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
Message-ID: <4B8D6841.5040809@msapiro.net>

On 3/2/2010 3:41 AM, Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:15:13 -0800
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>>
>> At this point, you have a list object (locked) and a message object. You
>> might think you could just do
>>
>> mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
>>
>> to archive the mail to the listname.mbox file and the pipermail archive,
>> but that wouldn't quite work because that method would re-invoke the
>> external archiver. Also, you don't need to worry about the listname.mbox
>> file because the ArchiveMail() method already did that before invoking
>> the external archiver, so what you would need is
>>
>> from Mailman.Archiver import HyperArch
>> from cStringIO import StringIO
>> f = StringIO(str(msg))
>> h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(mlist)
>> h.processUnixMailbox(f)
>> h.close()
>> f.close()
>>
>> Which is what the ArchiveMail() method would do. Now you still have the
>> mlist and msg objects, and you need to save and unlock the list at some
>> point
>>
>> mlist.Save()
>> mlist.Unlock()
>>
>> and the message is now in the pipermail archive and can be indexed.
>>
> 
> Hello again,
> 
> I'm having some troubles with my code. According to what Mark said, I've done this :
> 
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> import sys
> sys.path.insert(0,'/usr/lib/mailman')
> 
> import syslog
> 
> syslog.syslog('begin script')
> 
> import email
> from Mailman import MailList
> from Mailman import Message
> ## archive part
> from Mailman.Archiver import HyperArch
> from cStringIO import StringIO
> 
> maillist = sys.argv[2]
> hostname = sys.argv[1]
> 
> msg = email.message_from_file(sys.stdin, Message.Message)
> syslog.syslog(maillist)
> 
> mlist = MailList.MailList(maillist, lock=True)
> 
> syslog.syslog('processing archiver')
> ## let archive it
> f = StringIO(str(msg))
> h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(mlist)
> h.processUnixMailbox(f)
> h.close()
> f.close()
> mlist.Save()
> mlist.Unlock()
> 
> mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)


Here is one problem. Remove the above line. As I tried to say above you
can't do this. The lines above from "f = StringIO(str(msg))" through
"f.close()" archive the message. When you call mlist.ArchiveMail(msg),
it reinvokes your external archiver in an endless loop.

You need to remove the mlist.ArchiveMail(msg).

The locking problem is something else. The external archiver is called
with the list locked, thus when we try to instantiate the list 'locked',
we have a deadlock. Thus, you never saw the loop because of the deadlock.

The good news is we don't have to pass a locked list instance to
HyperArch.HyperArchive() as it uses a special archiver lock.

So, replace

mlist = MailList.MailList(maillist, lock=True)

with

mlist = MailList.MailList(maillist, lock=False)

and remove the "mlist.Unlock()" as your instance isn't locked, and
ArchRunner will unlock its list instance when you exit.


> syslog.syslog('processing indexer')
> ### coming soon
> 
> syslog.syslog('exiting - all ok')
> sys.exit(0)
> 
> "syslog" is for debug purpose only.
> 
> And if I send an email on my ML, I have this kind of error:
> 
> Mar 02 12:38:33 2010 (28380) toto.lock lifetime has expired, breaking


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar  2 20:57:55 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 11:57:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suppressing "To post a message" on listinfo page
In-Reply-To: <43C68785C2728049AF86B0ECB240A15113724FDA29@EXCHMB.ornl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC195201003021157550046b0e2f565@msapiro>

Rosenbaum, Larry M. wrote:

>The listinfo page for every list has a line that says:
>
>"To post a message to all the list members, send email to" followed by the email address.  This may be confusing for announce-only lists where members aren't allowed to post.  Is there an option to suppress this text on a per-list basis?  If not, I'd like to suggest it as a feature request.


Yes. See the (just updated) "How to create a customized welcome message
and listinfo page that avoids mentioning how to post to the list:"
section in the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/3YA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar  2 21:28:18 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 12:28:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wildcard syntax for spam-filtering?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1003021737080.31960@ben.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <PC1952010030212281802038be07f5d@msapiro>

Thomas Gramstad wrote:

>I want to add a spam filter rule that automatically deletes all
>mail from all subdomains of com.br. I have tried the syntaxes
>from: .*@com.br
>and
>from: .*@*.com.br ,
>but neither seems to work.


I'm not sure why the first one doesn't 'work'. it will match

From: me at com.br
From: you at com.brassworks.org
Subject: asking about From: headers and @comobravo

and lots of others. The second is even more liberal if it's not a typo.

Try

  ^From:.*[@.]com\.br($|>)

See <http://docs.python.org/library/re.html#regular-expression-syntax>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar  2 22:22:21 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 13:22:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments are unexpectedly re-created.
In-Reply-To: <4B8CCA6E.9050305@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201003021322210703c1249bd4@msapiro>

Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>
>Firtst of all, one of my customer wanted to delete attachments to
>make more disk spaces on the server. The server's disk resource
>was getting full because the size of the directory for attachments
>was very big. So the customer did the following works first.
>
>Digest options -> Disabled(Digestable 'NO')
>Archiving options -> Disabled(Archive 'NO')
>
>Secondly, after the above, the customer deleted directories located
>under the following directory such as 20091201, 20091202 and so on.
>
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/<list name>/attachments/<date>
>
># rm -rf 20091201,20091202,.....
> 
>Finaly, the customer got the "Digest options" and "Archiving options"
>back to enabled as follows.
>
>Digest options -> Enabled(Digestable 'YES')
>Archiving options -> Enabled(Archive 'YES')


There was no need to turn off digestable and archive if they were only
going to be turned on again.


>With this operations, the directories under attachments directory
>were deleted and the disk space is now enough, however, by unknown
>timing, directories that are named with past's date, which were
>manually deleted, are re-created automatically. And in that 
>directories, it seems that the same attachment files are repeatly
>created.
>
>One thing that I realized to stop this weird action is to disable
>both "Digest options" and "Archiving options". Once those options
>are disabled, no more unexpected attachment files would be created
>under that directory. 
>
>To know what was going on to the mailman server at that moment
>(in the meantime of the unexpected action), I asked the customer
>for logs such as error log in /var/log/mailman direcoty, and 
>in the error log, I saw the following errors regarding "send_digests".
>
>---
>xxx xx xx:xx:xx 2010 (2129) send_digests() failed: EUC-JP decoding error:
>invalid character ......
>xxx xx xx:xx:xx 2010 (2129) send_digests() failed: EUC-JP decoding error:
>invalid character ......
>xxx xx xx:xx:xx 2010 (2129) send_digests() failed: EUC-JP decoding error:
>invalid character ......
>---
>
>I have not yet been sure if these errors are related to the cuase,
>but it seems that "send_digests()" appearently fails and retries
>repeatly.


Yes, I think this is the problem. Somewhere in the
lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox file there is a bad message that causes
this error. Every time there is a post to the list, A digest is
triggered because of the size of the digest.mbox. The mbox is
processed and attachments are scrubbed (from the 'plain' digest) and
stored up to the point of the exception which aborts the process until
the next time, but each time those attachments prior to the bad
message get stored again.


>My questions this time are as follows.
>
>1.Why are attachment files re-created? Is it a normal action whenever
>  "Digest options" and "Archiving options" are available?


Non text/plain MIME parts and text/plain MIME parts with unknown
character set are removed and stored aside and replaced by links in
both the archive and the plain format digest. Thus there normally are
two copies of each in the archive.

In your case, the same messages in the digest.mbox are processed
repeatedly causing the attachments to accumulate.


>2.If the answer for the question 1 is "NO", what could be the cause?
>  The fail of send_digests() is it?
>
>3.Does the send_digests() repeat(retry) if the action fails?
>
>4.Is there anything else that should be done after deleting attachments
>   manually to avoid being suffered this weird behavior?



The underlying cause is a message in the lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox
file with a body or sub part with declared as charset=EUC-JP with an
invalid character or something related.

Removing or moving aside the lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox or finding the
bad message and removing it from the file should also fix this.

I consider this behavior to be a bug. I'll look into fixing it. I think
what I'll need to do is just move the digest.mbox aside and log an
error message. It would be better if I could just bypass the bad
message, but that may be difficult.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  3 02:45:14 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:45:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments are unexpectedly re-created.
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003021322210703c1249bd4@msapiro>
References: <PC195201003021322210703c1249bd4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B8DBF2A.2080406@msapiro.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
> I consider this behavior to be a bug. I'll look into fixing it. I think
> what I'll need to do is just move the digest.mbox aside and log an
> error message. It would be better if I could just bypass the bad
> message, but that may be difficult.


I have created a bug report for this at
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/531081>.

I still have a couple of issues. Unfortunately, when we catch the
exception that aborts the digest, we don't log a traceback, so I don't
really know what went wrong. If possible I would like to get a copy of
the offending digest.mbox to see if the actual problem is one of a
couple of bugs in Scrubber.py that have already been fixed since 2.1.9.
If it is possible to get your customer to send it to me off list, I
promise to treat it with complete confidentiality and destroy it when
I'm done.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mkawada at redhat.com  Wed Mar  3 02:57:40 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 10:57:40 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments are unexpectedly re-created.
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003021322210703c1249bd4@msapiro>
References: <PC195201003021322210703c1249bd4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B8DC214.9090305@redhat.com>

Mark-san,

Thank you very much for your help.

 >There was no need to turn off digestable and archive if they were only
 >going to be turned on again.

I did some research and found information that it is necessary to disable
those options if you want to delete attachments manually, otherwise 
something
unclaim might happen. However, even if you delete attachments, no need 
to turn
off those?

 >Removing or moving aside the lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox or finding the
 >bad message and removing it from the file should also fix this.

Yes, this is what I asked the customer for doing, but I am wondering that
even if I could find the bad message and delete it, how can I reject it to
be sent all the time. I mean what if the same happens again? My guessing
for this behavior is that it is necessary to removing or moving aside the
digest.mbox whenever bad message is in that mbox as long as the digestable
options turned on. Is my guessing correct?

I appreciated your help!

Best Regards,

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>   
>> Firtst of all, one of my customer wanted to delete attachments to
>> make more disk spaces on the server. The server's disk resource
>> was getting full because the size of the directory for attachments
>> was very big. So the customer did the following works first.
>>
>> Digest options -> Disabled(Digestable 'NO')
>> Archiving options -> Disabled(Archive 'NO')
>>
>> Secondly, after the above, the customer deleted directories located
>> under the following directory such as 20091201, 20091202 and so on.
>>
>> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/<list name>/attachments/<date>
>>
>> # rm -rf 20091201,20091202,.....
>>
>> Finaly, the customer got the "Digest options" and "Archiving options"
>> back to enabled as follows.
>>
>> Digest options -> Enabled(Digestable 'YES')
>> Archiving options -> Enabled(Archive 'YES')
>>     
>
>
> There was no need to turn off digestable and archive if they were only
> going to be turned on again.
>
>
>   
>> With this operations, the directories under attachments directory
>> were deleted and the disk space is now enough, however, by unknown
>> timing, directories that are named with past's date, which were
>> manually deleted, are re-created automatically. And in that 
>> directories, it seems that the same attachment files are repeatly
>> created.
>>
>> One thing that I realized to stop this weird action is to disable
>> both "Digest options" and "Archiving options". Once those options
>> are disabled, no more unexpected attachment files would be created
>> under that directory. 
>>
>> To know what was going on to the mailman server at that moment
>> (in the meantime of the unexpected action), I asked the customer
>> for logs such as error log in /var/log/mailman direcoty, and 
>> in the error log, I saw the following errors regarding "send_digests".
>>
>> ---
>> xxx xx xx:xx:xx 2010 (2129) send_digests() failed: EUC-JP decoding error:
>> invalid character ......
>> xxx xx xx:xx:xx 2010 (2129) send_digests() failed: EUC-JP decoding error:
>> invalid character ......
>> xxx xx xx:xx:xx 2010 (2129) send_digests() failed: EUC-JP decoding error:
>> invalid character ......
>> ---
>>
>> I have not yet been sure if these errors are related to the cuase,
>> but it seems that "send_digests()" appearently fails and retries
>> repeatly.
>>     
>
>
> Yes, I think this is the problem. Somewhere in the
> lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox file there is a bad message that causes
> this error. Every time there is a post to the list, A digest is
> triggered because of the size of the digest.mbox. The mbox is
> processed and attachments are scrubbed (from the 'plain' digest) and
> stored up to the point of the exception which aborts the process until
> the next time, but each time those attachments prior to the bad
> message get stored again.
>
>
>   
>> My questions this time are as follows.
>>
>> 1.Why are attachment files re-created? Is it a normal action whenever
>>  "Digest options" and "Archiving options" are available?
>>     
>
>
> Non text/plain MIME parts and text/plain MIME parts with unknown
> character set are removed and stored aside and replaced by links in
> both the archive and the plain format digest. Thus there normally are
> two copies of each in the archive.
>
> In your case, the same messages in the digest.mbox are processed
> repeatedly causing the attachments to accumulate.
>
>
>   
>> 2.If the answer for the question 1 is "NO", what could be the cause?
>>  The fail of send_digests() is it?
>>
>> 3.Does the send_digests() repeat(retry) if the action fails?
>>
>> 4.Is there anything else that should be done after deleting attachments
>>   manually to avoid being suffered this weird behavior?
>>     
>
>
>
> The underlying cause is a message in the lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox
> file with a body or sub part with declared as charset=EUC-JP with an
> invalid character or something related.
>
> Removing or moving aside the lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox or finding the
> bad message and removing it from the file should also fix this.
>
> I consider this behavior to be a bug. I'll look into fixing it. I think
> what I'll need to do is just move the digest.mbox aside and log an
> error message. It would be better if I could just bypass the bad
> message, but that may be difficult.
>
>   


-- 
-------------------
Masaharu Kawada
Associate Technical Support Engineer
Red Hat K K
Ebisu Neonato 5F
1-18 Ebisu 4-chome, Shibuya-ku
Tokyo 150-0013, Japan
Direct: +81-3-5798-8482


From mkawada at redhat.com  Wed Mar  3 03:07:08 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 11:07:08 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments are unexpectedly re-created.
In-Reply-To: <4B8DBF2A.2080406@msapiro.net>
References: <PC195201003021322210703c1249bd4@msapiro>
	<4B8DBF2A.2080406@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4B8DC44C.6030703@redhat.com>

Mark-san,

Thank you very much for your help.

I will try to get all of the digest.mbox located on under lists/LISTNAME/
from the customer. Though it might be difficult since digest.mbox consists
confidential information for the customer. I will update as soon as I 
get the
result from the customer.

Best Regards,

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>   
>> I consider this behavior to be a bug. I'll look into fixing it. I think
>> what I'll need to do is just move the digest.mbox aside and log an
>> error message. It would be better if I could just bypass the bad
>> message, but that may be difficult.
>>     
>
>
> I have created a bug report for this at
> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/531081>.
>
> I still have a couple of issues. Unfortunately, when we catch the
> exception that aborts the digest, we don't log a traceback, so I don't
> really know what went wrong. If possible I would like to get a copy of
> the offending digest.mbox to see if the actual problem is one of a
> couple of bugs in Scrubber.py that have already been fixed since 2.1.9.
> If it is possible to get your customer to send it to me off list, I
> promise to treat it with complete confidentiality and destroy it when
> I'm done.
>
>   


-- 
-------------------
Masaharu Kawada
Associate Technical Support Engineer
Red Hat K K
Ebisu Neonato 5F
1-18 Ebisu 4-chome, Shibuya-ku
Tokyo 150-0013, Japan
Direct: +81-3-5798-8482


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  3 03:35:37 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 18:35:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments are unexpectedly re-created.
In-Reply-To: <4B8DC214.9090305@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010030218353708754f6aa750@msapiro>

Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>
> >There was no need to turn off digestable and archive if they were only
> >going to be turned on again.
>
>I did some research and found information that it is necessary to disable
>those options if you want to delete attachments manually, otherwise 
>something
>unclaim might happen. However, even if you delete attachments, no need 
>to turn
>off those?


I suppose that something unexpected could happen if you removed one of
the attachment directories while it was in the process of being
written, so what you did was safest.


> >Removing or moving aside the lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox or finding the
> >bad message and removing it from the file should also fix this.
>
>Yes, this is what I asked the customer for doing, but I am wondering that
>even if I could find the bad message and delete it, how can I reject it to
>be sent all the time. I mean what if the same happens again? My guessing
>for this behavior is that it is necessary to removing or moving aside the
>digest.mbox whenever bad message is in that mbox as long as the digestable
>options turned on. Is my guessing correct?


It is my thought that when an exception occurs in this process, that I
would produce a traceback as well as the existing log message and also
move the digest.mbox aside and log that action too.

However, I'm not convinced that the problem in this case is not due to
a Scrubber.py bug that either has already been fixed since 2.1.9 or
could be fixed, thus avoiding the issue. That's why I would like to
get the offending digest.mbox if possible.

In any case, the attached ToDigest.patch.txt contains a patch to
Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py. If your customer can install that patch
(just apply the patch to the file and restart mailman), we can at
least get a traceback from the exception which may help pinpoint the
problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: ToDigest.patch.txt
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100302/cb497743/attachment-0001.txt>

From mkawada at redhat.com  Wed Mar  3 03:46:00 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 11:46:00 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments are unexpectedly re-created.
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003021322210703c1249bd4@msapiro>
References: <PC195201003021322210703c1249bd4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B8DCD68.70909@redhat.com>

Mark-san,

I am sorry that I would like to know one more thing about
digestable in advance.

>>---
>>xxx xx xx:xx:xx 2010 (2129) send_digests() failed: EUC-JP decoding error:
>>invalid character ......
>>xxx xx xx:xx:xx 2010 (2129) send_digests() failed: EUC-JP decoding error:
>>invalid character ......
>>xxx xx xx:xx:xx 2010 (2129) send_digests() failed: EUC-JP decoding error:
>>invalid character ......
>>---

 >Yes, I think this is the problem. Somewhere in the
 >lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox file there is a bad message that causes
 >this error.

It seems that the operation of the "send_digests()" starts via corn
at noon(12:00) every day. However, re-creation attachment files
problem happens even other time(not only at noon but also other time),
so the "send_digests()" operation seems to be done sometime
except at the specified time of cron. If my understanding is right,
the "send_digests()" operation repeats(retries) sevral times after
the fail of its first action. On this matter, what I would like to know
is that what the interval of the retry, and how many time does it
repeat.

Could you please let me know if you know about this.

Best Regards,

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>   
>> Firtst of all, one of my customer wanted to delete attachments to
>> make more disk spaces on the server. The server's disk resource
>> was getting full because the size of the directory for attachments
>> was very big. So the customer did the following works first.
>>
>> Digest options -> Disabled(Digestable 'NO')
>> Archiving options -> Disabled(Archive 'NO')
>>
>> Secondly, after the above, the customer deleted directories located
>> under the following directory such as 20091201, 20091202 and so on.
>>
>> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/<list name>/attachments/<date>
>>
>> # rm -rf 20091201,20091202,.....
>>
>> Finaly, the customer got the "Digest options" and "Archiving options"
>> back to enabled as follows.
>>
>> Digest options -> Enabled(Digestable 'YES')
>> Archiving options -> Enabled(Archive 'YES')
>>     
>
>
> There was no need to turn off digestable and archive if they were only
> going to be turned on again.
>
>
>   
>> With this operations, the directories under attachments directory
>> were deleted and the disk space is now enough, however, by unknown
>> timing, directories that are named with past's date, which were
>> manually deleted, are re-created automatically. And in that 
>> directories, it seems that the same attachment files are repeatly
>> created.
>>
>> One thing that I realized to stop this weird action is to disable
>> both "Digest options" and "Archiving options". Once those options
>> are disabled, no more unexpected attachment files would be created
>> under that directory. 
>>
>> To know what was going on to the mailman server at that moment
>> (in the meantime of the unexpected action), I asked the customer
>> for logs such as error log in /var/log/mailman direcoty, and 
>> in the error log, I saw the following errors regarding "send_digests".
>>
>> ---
>> xxx xx xx:xx:xx 2010 (2129) send_digests() failed: EUC-JP decoding error:
>> invalid character ......
>> xxx xx xx:xx:xx 2010 (2129) send_digests() failed: EUC-JP decoding error:
>> invalid character ......
>> xxx xx xx:xx:xx 2010 (2129) send_digests() failed: EUC-JP decoding error:
>> invalid character ......
>> ---
>>
>> I have not yet been sure if these errors are related to the cuase,
>> but it seems that "send_digests()" appearently fails and retries
>> repeatly.
>>     
>
>
> Yes, I think this is the problem. Somewhere in the
> lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox file there is a bad message that causes
> this error. Every time there is a post to the list, A digest is
> triggered because of the size of the digest.mbox. The mbox is
> processed and attachments are scrubbed (from the 'plain' digest) and
> stored up to the point of the exception which aborts the process until
> the next time, but each time those attachments prior to the bad
> message get stored again.
>
>
>   
>> My questions this time are as follows.
>>
>> 1.Why are attachment files re-created? Is it a normal action whenever
>>  "Digest options" and "Archiving options" are available?
>>     
>
>
> Non text/plain MIME parts and text/plain MIME parts with unknown
> character set are removed and stored aside and replaced by links in
> both the archive and the plain format digest. Thus there normally are
> two copies of each in the archive.
>
> In your case, the same messages in the digest.mbox are processed
> repeatedly causing the attachments to accumulate.
>
>
>   
>> 2.If the answer for the question 1 is "NO", what could be the cause?
>>  The fail of send_digests() is it?
>>
>> 3.Does the send_digests() repeat(retry) if the action fails?
>>
>> 4.Is there anything else that should be done after deleting attachments
>>   manually to avoid being suffered this weird behavior?
>>     
>
>
>
> The underlying cause is a message in the lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox
> file with a body or sub part with declared as charset=EUC-JP with an
> invalid character or something related.
>
> Removing or moving aside the lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox or finding the
> bad message and removing it from the file should also fix this.
>
> I consider this behavior to be a bug. I'll look into fixing it. I think
> what I'll need to do is just move the digest.mbox aside and log an
> error message. It would be better if I could just bypass the bad
> message, but that may be difficult.
>
>   


-- 
-------------------
Masaharu Kawada
Associate Technical Support Engineer
Red Hat K K
Ebisu Neonato 5F
1-18 Ebisu 4-chome, Shibuya-ku
Tokyo 150-0013, Japan
Direct: +81-3-5798-8482


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  3 04:55:18 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 19:55:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments are unexpectedly re-created.
In-Reply-To: <4B8DCD68.70909@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201003021955180640bcf10b12@msapiro>

Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>
>I am sorry that I would like to know one more thing about
>digestable in advance.
>
>>>---
>>>xxx xx xx:xx:xx 2010 (2129) send_digests() failed: EUC-JP decoding error:
>>>invalid character ......
>>>xxx xx xx:xx:xx 2010 (2129) send_digests() failed: EUC-JP decoding error:
>>>invalid character ......
>>>xxx xx xx:xx:xx 2010 (2129) send_digests() failed: EUC-JP decoding error:
>>>invalid character ......
>>>---
>
> >Yes, I think this is the problem. Somewhere in the
> >lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox file there is a bad message that causes
> >this error.
>
>It seems that the operation of the "send_digests()" starts via corn
>at noon(12:00) every day. However, re-creation attachment files
>problem happens even other time(not only at noon but also other time),
>so the "send_digests()" operation seems to be done sometime
>except at the specified time of cron. If my understanding is right,
>the "send_digests()" operation repeats(retries) sevral times after
>the fail of its first action. On this matter, what I would like to know
>is that what the interval of the retry, and how many time does it
>repeat.


cron/senddigests runs every day at noon and is responsible for the
exception that happens at noon or just thereafter.

There are no retries per se. The list has a setting
digest_size_threshhold (on its Digest options page). When a post
arrives that makes the digest.mbox bigger than digest_size_threshhold,
a digest is triggered immediately. In this case, the digest.mbox is
bigger than digest_size_threshhold and the digest is never
successfully produced so every post to the list tries to send a digest
and causes the exception to be triggered again. Thus, all the other
logged exceptions are the result of a post to the list triggering the
digest process.

If there were no posts to the list, the process would only run once a
day.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mkawada at redhat.com  Wed Mar  3 05:41:14 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 13:41:14 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments are unexpectedly re-created.
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003021955180640bcf10b12@msapiro>
References: <PC195201003021955180640bcf10b12@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B8DE86A.40109@redhat.com>

Mark-san,

Thank you very much for your respose.

>There are no retries per se. The list has a setting
>digest_size_threshhold (on its Digest options page). When a post
>arrives that makes the digest.mbox bigger than digest_size_threshhold,
>a digest is triggered immediately. In this case, the digest.mbox is
>bigger than digest_size_threshhold and the digest is never
>successfully produced so every post to the list tries to send a digest
>and causes the exception to be triggered again. Thus, all the other
>logged exceptions are the result of a post to the list triggering the
>digest process.
>
>If there were no posts to the list, the process would only run once a
>day.

So, it doesn't matter if the senddigest fais or not, there are no 
retries. And,
senddigest via cron runs only once a day at noon. However, whenever
messages posted to the list, send_digest() will called based on the size of
digest_size_threshhold, and try to send digest mails. But in my customer's
case, every time message comes to the list, digest process(send_digest())
fails due to the bad message in the digest.mbox. This is the cause of the
error message in /var/log/mailman/error repeatly appear.  Is my 
understanding
right?

Thanks!

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>   
>> I am sorry that I would like to know one more thing about
>> digestable in advance.
>>
>>     
>>>> ---
>>>> xxx xx xx:xx:xx 2010 (2129) send_digests() failed: EUC-JP decoding error:
>>>> invalid character ......
>>>> xxx xx xx:xx:xx 2010 (2129) send_digests() failed: EUC-JP decoding error:
>>>> invalid character ......
>>>> xxx xx xx:xx:xx 2010 (2129) send_digests() failed: EUC-JP decoding error:
>>>> invalid character ......
>>>> ---
>>>>         
>>> Yes, I think this is the problem. Somewhere in the
>>> lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox file there is a bad message that causes
>>> this error.
>>>       
>> It seems that the operation of the "send_digests()" starts via corn
>> at noon(12:00) every day. However, re-creation attachment files
>> problem happens even other time(not only at noon but also other time),
>> so the "send_digests()" operation seems to be done sometime
>> except at the specified time of cron. If my understanding is right,
>> the "send_digests()" operation repeats(retries) sevral times after
>> the fail of its first action. On this matter, what I would like to know
>> is that what the interval of the retry, and how many time does it
>> repeat.
>>     
>
>
> cron/senddigests runs every day at noon and is responsible for the
> exception that happens at noon or just thereafter.
>
> There are no retries per se. The list has a setting
> digest_size_threshhold (on its Digest options page). When a post
> arrives that makes the digest.mbox bigger than digest_size_threshhold,
> a digest is triggered immediately. In this case, the digest.mbox is
> bigger than digest_size_threshhold and the digest is never
> successfully produced so every post to the list tries to send a digest
> and causes the exception to be triggered again. Thus, all the other
> logged exceptions are the result of a post to the list triggering the
> digest process.
>
> If there were no posts to the list, the process would only run once a
> day.
>
>   


-- 
-------------------
Masaharu Kawada
Associate Technical Support Engineer
Red Hat K K
Ebisu Neonato 5F
1-18 Ebisu 4-chome, Shibuya-ku
Tokyo 150-0013, Japan
Direct: +81-3-5798-8482


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  3 05:44:43 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 20:44:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments are unexpectedly re-created.
In-Reply-To: <4B8DE86A.40109@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010030220444304537fb4e7b0@msapiro>

Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>
>So, it doesn't matter if the senddigest fais or not, there are no 
>retries. And,
>senddigest via cron runs only once a day at noon. However, whenever
>messages posted to the list, send_digest() will called based on the size of
>digest_size_threshhold, and try to send digest mails. But in my customer's
>case, every time message comes to the list, digest process(send_digest())
>fails due to the bad message in the digest.mbox. This is the cause of the
>error message in /var/log/mailman/error repeatly appear.  Is my 
>understanding
>right?


Yes, that is exactly correct.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mkawada at redhat.com  Wed Mar  3 07:25:24 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 15:25:24 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments are unexpectedly re-created.
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010030220444304537fb4e7b0@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010030220444304537fb4e7b0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B8E00D4.80701@redhat.com>

Mark-san,

Thank you very much for your response. I was kind of misunderstanding
about what the send_digest() does before, but I now got better knowledge
on it because of your explanations for me. I very much appreciate it!!

I have asked the customer for providing the digest.mbox(s) to us and waited
for the reply , so once I get the result, I will update it with replying 
to this mail.

Best Regards,

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>   
>> So, it doesn't matter if the senddigest fais or not, there are no 
>> retries. And,
>> senddigest via cron runs only once a day at noon. However, whenever
>> messages posted to the list, send_digest() will called based on the size of
>> digest_size_threshhold, and try to send digest mails. But in my customer's
>> case, every time message comes to the list, digest process(send_digest())
>> fails due to the bad message in the digest.mbox. This is the cause of the
>> error message in /var/log/mailman/error repeatly appear.  Is my 
>> understanding
>> right?
>>     
>
>
> Yes, that is exactly correct.
>
>   


-- 
-------------------
Masaharu Kawada
Associate Technical Support Engineer
Red Hat K K
Ebisu Neonato 5F
1-18 Ebisu 4-chome, Shibuya-ku
Tokyo 150-0013, Japan
Direct: +81-3-5798-8482


From cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  Wed Mar  3 08:02:59 2010
From: cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com (Cedric Jeanneret)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 08:02:59 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <4B8D6841.5040809@msapiro.net>
References: <20100225152716.65d658c4@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<PC195201002251708060671e1865d25@msapiro>
	<20100226132029.7afa688f@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<4B880FB1.4080804@msapiro.net>
	<20100302124135.3a765745@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<4B8D6841.5040809@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20100303080259.1666cc7e@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>

On Tue, 02 Mar 2010 11:34:25 -0800
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 3/2/2010 3:41 AM, Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
> > On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:15:13 -0800
> > Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> At this point, you have a list object (locked) and a message object. You
> >> might think you could just do
> >>
> >> mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
> >>
> >> to archive the mail to the listname.mbox file and the pipermail archive,
> >> but that wouldn't quite work because that method would re-invoke the
> >> external archiver. Also, you don't need to worry about the listname.mbox
> >> file because the ArchiveMail() method already did that before invoking
> >> the external archiver, so what you would need is
> >>
> >> from Mailman.Archiver import HyperArch
> >> from cStringIO import StringIO
> >> f = StringIO(str(msg))
> >> h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(mlist)
> >> h.processUnixMailbox(f)
> >> h.close()
> >> f.close()
> >>
> >> Which is what the ArchiveMail() method would do. Now you still have the
> >> mlist and msg objects, and you need to save and unlock the list at some
> >> point
> >>
> >> mlist.Save()
> >> mlist.Unlock()
> >>
> >> and the message is now in the pipermail archive and can be indexed.
> >>
> > 
> > Hello again,
> > 
> > I'm having some troubles with my code. According to what Mark said, I've done this :
> > 
> > #!/usr/bin/env python
> > import sys
> > sys.path.insert(0,'/usr/lib/mailman')
> > 
> > import syslog
> > 
> > syslog.syslog('begin script')
> > 
> > import email
> > from Mailman import MailList
> > from Mailman import Message
> > ## archive part
> > from Mailman.Archiver import HyperArch
> > from cStringIO import StringIO
> > 
> > maillist = sys.argv[2]
> > hostname = sys.argv[1]
> > 
> > msg = email.message_from_file(sys.stdin, Message.Message)
> > syslog.syslog(maillist)
> > 
> > mlist = MailList.MailList(maillist, lock=True)
> > 
> > syslog.syslog('processing archiver')
> > ## let archive it
> > f = StringIO(str(msg))
> > h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(mlist)
> > h.processUnixMailbox(f)
> > h.close()
> > f.close()
> > mlist.Save()
> > mlist.Unlock()
> > 
> > mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
> 
> 
> Here is one problem. Remove the above line. As I tried to say above you
> can't do this. The lines above from "f = StringIO(str(msg))" through
> "f.close()" archive the message. When you call mlist.ArchiveMail(msg),
> it reinvokes your external archiver in an endless loop.
> 
> You need to remove the mlist.ArchiveMail(msg).
> 
> The locking problem is something else. The external archiver is called
> with the list locked, thus when we try to instantiate the list 'locked',
> we have a deadlock. Thus, you never saw the loop because of the deadlock.
> 
> The good news is we don't have to pass a locked list instance to
> HyperArch.HyperArchive() as it uses a special archiver lock.
> 
> So, replace
> 
> mlist = MailList.MailList(maillist, lock=True)
> 
> with
> 
> mlist = MailList.MailList(maillist, lock=False)
> 
> and remove the "mlist.Unlock()" as your instance isn't locked, and
> ArchRunner will unlock its list instance when you exit.
> 
> 
> > syslog.syslog('processing indexer')
> > ### coming soon
> > 
> > syslog.syslog('exiting - all ok')
> > sys.exit(0)
> > 
> > "syslog" is for debug purpose only.
> > 
> > And if I send an email on my ML, I have this kind of error:
> > 
> > Mar 02 12:38:33 2010 (28380) toto.lock lifetime has expired, breaking
> 
> 

Woops, right. it was commented out in my code. For now, I'm pocking around with some other problems, such as my external archiver returns a non-zero status. It seems to crash with the
h.processUnixMailbox(f)
Is there any way to have a backtrace of python errors (i.e. testing it through the shell)? I guess I can write a file with all email content, included headers, and pipe it in my file. Right ?

Thank you!

C.


-- 
C?dric Jeanneret                 |  System Administrator
021 619 10 32                    |  Camptocamp SA
cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  |  PSE-A / EPFL
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 197 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100303/65edea27/attachment-0001.pgp>

From mkawada at redhat.com  Wed Mar  3 08:54:44 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 16:54:44 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments are unexpectedly re-created.
In-Reply-To: <4B8E00D4.80701@redhat.com>
References: <PC1952010030220444304537fb4e7b0@msapiro>
	<4B8E00D4.80701@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <4B8E15C4.3080403@redhat.com>

Hi Mark-san,

I got a reply from the customer, but it was not possbile for the customer
to provide the whole digest.mbox to us due to their policy.  However,
sevral parts of the error log and digest.mbox's content have been provided.
As for the error messages, please see the attachment.  And as for the
digest.mbox which might be the problematic one, I see lots of messages look
like below.

----
 ESC$B?7%"%s%A%&%$%k%9=8Cf4IM}%7%9%F%`ESC(B
 2009/11/07(7:25:58)
 ESC$B%&%$%k%9$,8+$D$+$j$^$7$?ESC(B (ESC$B4m81ESC(B)
 Trojan.Pandex
 A32Z02V (A32G29V)(MG740762)
 (UPS Delivery Problem>>inv.zip>>inv.exe)
 ESC$BMW5a=hM}"*%/%j!<%K%s%0ESC(B
 ESC$B<B:]=hM}"*:o=|$K$h$C$F%/%j!<%K%s%0$7$^$7$?ESC(B
----

I know that I got just a few information to investigate, but can you be
able to guess what the cause of this is?

Thanks in advance,

Best Regards,

Masaharu Kawada wrote:
> Mark-san,
>
> Thank you very much for your response. I was kind of misunderstanding
> about what the send_digest() does before, but I now got better knowledge
> on it because of your explanations for me. I very much appreciate it!!
>
> I have asked the customer for providing the digest.mbox(s) to us and waited
> for the reply , so once I get the result, I will update it with replying 
> to this mail.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>   
>> Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> So, it doesn't matter if the senddigest fais or not, there are no 
>>> retries. And,
>>> senddigest via cron runs only once a day at noon. However, whenever
>>> messages posted to the list, send_digest() will called based on the size of
>>> digest_size_threshhold, and try to send digest mails. But in my customer's
>>> case, every time message comes to the list, digest process(send_digest())
>>> fails due to the bad message in the digest.mbox. This is the cause of the
>>> error message in /var/log/mailman/error repeatly appear.  Is my 
>>> understanding
>>> right?
>>>     
>>>       
>> Yes, that is exactly correct.
>>
>>   
>>     
>
>
>   


-- 
-------------------
Masaharu Kawada
Associate Technical Support Engineer
Red Hat K K
Ebisu Neonato 5F
1-18 Ebisu 4-chome, Shibuya-ku
Tokyo 150-0013, Japan
Direct: +81-3-5798-8482

-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: error.20100208
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100303/8b752516/attachment.ksh>

From cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  Wed Mar  3 09:57:26 2010
From: cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com (Cedric Jeanneret)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 09:57:26 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <4B8D6841.5040809@msapiro.net>
References: <20100225152716.65d658c4@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<PC195201002251708060671e1865d25@msapiro>
	<20100226132029.7afa688f@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<4B880FB1.4080804@msapiro.net>
	<20100302124135.3a765745@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<4B8D6841.5040809@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20100303095726.37f59c8c@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>

On Tue, 02 Mar 2010 11:34:25 -0800
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 3/2/2010 3:41 AM, Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
> > On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:15:13 -0800
> > Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> At this point, you have a list object (locked) and a message object. You
> >> might think you could just do
> >>
> >> mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
> >>
> >> to archive the mail to the listname.mbox file and the pipermail archive,
> >> but that wouldn't quite work because that method would re-invoke the
> >> external archiver. Also, you don't need to worry about the listname.mbox
> >> file because the ArchiveMail() method already did that before invoking
> >> the external archiver, so what you would need is
> >>
> >> from Mailman.Archiver import HyperArch
> >> from cStringIO import StringIO
> >> f = StringIO(str(msg))
> >> h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(mlist)
> >> h.processUnixMailbox(f)
> >> h.close()
> >> f.close()
> >>
> >> Which is what the ArchiveMail() method would do. Now you still have the
> >> mlist and msg objects, and you need to save and unlock the list at some
> >> point
> >>
> >> mlist.Save()
> >> mlist.Unlock()
> >>
> >> and the message is now in the pipermail archive and can be indexed.
> >>
> > 
> > Hello again,
> > 
> > I'm having some troubles with my code. According to what Mark said, I've done this :
> > 
> > #!/usr/bin/env python
> > import sys
> > sys.path.insert(0,'/usr/lib/mailman')
> > 
> > import syslog
> > 
> > syslog.syslog('begin script')
> > 
> > import email
> > from Mailman import MailList
> > from Mailman import Message
> > ## archive part
> > from Mailman.Archiver import HyperArch
> > from cStringIO import StringIO
> > 
> > maillist = sys.argv[2]
> > hostname = sys.argv[1]
> > 
> > msg = email.message_from_file(sys.stdin, Message.Message)
> > syslog.syslog(maillist)
> > 
> > mlist = MailList.MailList(maillist, lock=True)
> > 
> > syslog.syslog('processing archiver')
> > ## let archive it
> > f = StringIO(str(msg))
> > h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(mlist)
> > h.processUnixMailbox(f)
> > h.close()
> > f.close()
> > mlist.Save()
> > mlist.Unlock()
> > 
> > mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
> 
> 
> Here is one problem. Remove the above line. As I tried to say above you
> can't do this. The lines above from "f = StringIO(str(msg))" through
> "f.close()" archive the message. When you call mlist.ArchiveMail(msg),
> it reinvokes your external archiver in an endless loop.
> 
> You need to remove the mlist.ArchiveMail(msg).
> 
> The locking problem is something else. The external archiver is called
> with the list locked, thus when we try to instantiate the list 'locked',
> we have a deadlock. Thus, you never saw the loop because of the deadlock.
> 
> The good news is we don't have to pass a locked list instance to
> HyperArch.HyperArchive() as it uses a special archiver lock.
> 
> So, replace
> 
> mlist = MailList.MailList(maillist, lock=True)
> 
> with
> 
> mlist = MailList.MailList(maillist, lock=False)
> 
> and remove the "mlist.Unlock()" as your instance isn't locked, and
> ArchRunner will unlock its list instance when you exit.
> 
> 
> > syslog.syslog('processing indexer')
> > ### coming soon
> > 
> > syslog.syslog('exiting - all ok')
> > sys.exit(0)
> > 
> > "syslog" is for debug purpose only.
> > 
> > And if I send an email on my ML, I have this kind of error:
> > 
> > Mar 02 12:38:33 2010 (28380) toto.lock lifetime has expired, breaking
> 
> 

Hmm, it seems it crashes in pipermail.py, in function processUnixMailbox:
we have a
pos = input.tell() on line 564, but unfortunately "input" does NOT have any "tell()" method...
It returns a "41" status.

-- 
C?dric Jeanneret                 |  System Administrator
021 619 10 32                    |  Camptocamp SA
cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  |  PSE-A / EPFL

From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Wed Mar  3 10:18:39 2010
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 18:18:39 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments are unexpectedly re-created.
In-Reply-To: <4B8E15C4.3080403@redhat.com>
References: <PC1952010030220444304537fb4e7b0@msapiro>	<4B8E00D4.80701@redhat.com>
	<4B8E15C4.3080403@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <4B8E296F.7060808@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

(10/03/03 16:54), Masaharu Kawada wrote:
> Hi Mark-san,
> 
> I got a reply from the customer, but it was not possbile for the customer
> to provide the whole digest.mbox to us due to their policy.  However,
> sevral parts of the error log and digest.mbox's content have been provided.
> As for the error messages, please see the attachment.  And as for the
> digest.mbox which might be the problematic one, I see lots of messages look
> like below.
> 

Hi, Kawada san,

The problem is that the Japanese mail users/MUA developers use CP-932
charset as Shift-JIS and its derivatives (ISO-2022-JP/EUC-JP).  CP-932
contains more (extended) characters than Shift-JIS while Python codec is
strict on the latter.  The characters like circled numbers fail to be
decoded in unicode and cause error.

Similar errors are reported in Japanese Mailman users, like the thread
starting from:
http://mm.tkikuchi.net/pipermail/mmjp-users/2009-February/002487.html

A workaround is to patch charset.py in Python email library as:

--- Lib/email/charset.py	2009-09-22 08:59:56.000000000 +0900
+++ Lib/email/charset.py.orig	2009-09-22 08:58:36.000000000 +0900
@@ -264,8 +264,7 @@
     def convert(self, s):
         """Convert a string from the input_codec to the output_codec."""
         if self.input_codec != self.output_codec:
-            return unicode(s, self.input_codec, 'replace'
-                     ).encode(self.output_codec, 'replace')
+            return unicode(s, self.input_codec).encode(self.output_codec)
         else:
             return s



-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/

From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Wed Mar  3 10:29:15 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 11:29:15 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling list archiving
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1003031127300.2721@data.home>

Hi,

We've got an archive taking up a fair amount of space, but much of the 
traffic on that list is transient and doesn't need to be archived.  So 
we've decided to stop archiving it and to remove existing archives.

Apart from turning off archiving in the list configuration and removing 
the public and private archive directories, is there anything else I need 
to do?

Cheers,
Geoff.


From mkawada at redhat.com  Wed Mar  3 10:33:03 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 18:33:03 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments are unexpectedly re-created.
In-Reply-To: <4B8E296F.7060808@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <PC1952010030220444304537fb4e7b0@msapiro>	<4B8E00D4.80701@redhat.com>
	<4B8E15C4.3080403@redhat.com> <4B8E296F.7060808@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4B8E2CCF.7080808@redhat.com>

Hello kikuchi-san,

Thank you for your response with a precious information.
Since I am a beginner for mailman, any comments/suggestions
such as this kind of thing are very helpful for me. Including
what Mark-san have been doing for me and you have done
for me as well, I really appreciate the cooperation from  this list.

As for the problem on my question, I will look into the infomation
that you just gave me, and later on I will compare my customer's
with one posted in that thread you provided.

Thanks a lot!

Best Regards,

Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> (10/03/03 16:54), Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>   
>> Hi Mark-san,
>>
>> I got a reply from the customer, but it was not possbile for the customer
>> to provide the whole digest.mbox to us due to their policy.  However,
>> sevral parts of the error log and digest.mbox's content have been provided.
>> As for the error messages, please see the attachment.  And as for the
>> digest.mbox which might be the problematic one, I see lots of messages look
>> like below.
>>
>>     
>
> Hi, Kawada san,
>
> The problem is that the Japanese mail users/MUA developers use CP-932
> charset as Shift-JIS and its derivatives (ISO-2022-JP/EUC-JP).  CP-932
> contains more (extended) characters than Shift-JIS while Python codec is
> strict on the latter.  The characters like circled numbers fail to be
> decoded in unicode and cause error.
>
> Similar errors are reported in Japanese Mailman users, like the thread
> starting from:
> http://mm.tkikuchi.net/pipermail/mmjp-users/2009-February/002487.html
>
> A workaround is to patch charset.py in Python email library as:
>
> --- Lib/email/charset.py	2009-09-22 08:59:56.000000000 +0900
> +++ Lib/email/charset.py.orig	2009-09-22 08:58:36.000000000 +0900
> @@ -264,8 +264,7 @@
>      def convert(self, s):
>          """Convert a string from the input_codec to the output_codec."""
>          if self.input_codec != self.output_codec:
> -            return unicode(s, self.input_codec, 'replace'
> -                     ).encode(self.output_codec, 'replace')
> +            return unicode(s, self.input_codec).encode(self.output_codec)
>          else:
>              return s
>
>
>
>   


-- 
-------------------
Masaharu Kawada
Associate Technical Support Engineer
Red Hat K K
Ebisu Neonato 5F
1-18 Ebisu 4-chome, Shibuya-ku
Tokyo 150-0013, Japan
Direct: +81-3-5798-8482


From roberto.gherardi at gmail.com  Wed Mar  3 10:52:35 2010
From: roberto.gherardi at gmail.com (Roberto Gherardi de Candei)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 10:52:35 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsuscribe problem
Message-ID: <584954161003030152r2ce814b3o661d1fc304dbdc15@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

I'm an admin of newsletters, by email I delete users without entering the
password in the subject and without arrivals cancellation confirmation to
users

I do this?


many thanks

-- 
RGdC

From mkawada at redhat.com  Wed Mar  3 11:07:01 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 19:07:01 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments are unexpectedly re-created.
In-Reply-To: <4B8E2CCF.7080808@redhat.com>
References: <PC1952010030220444304537fb4e7b0@msapiro>	<4B8E00D4.80701@redhat.com>	<4B8E15C4.3080403@redhat.com>
	<4B8E296F.7060808@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <4B8E2CCF.7080808@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <4B8E34C5.7020308@redhat.com>

Hello Kikuchi-san,

As far as I checked the error messages and compared with each one,
The problem of my customer's seems to be almost the same as one
posted to the thread written in the last Kikuchi-san's email.

There is one thing that I wonder, is that if the charset.py is done with
that patch, what the current digest.mbox exsisted under lists/<listname>
are supposed to be? Do they need to be deleted or not? My point on
this is that once the patch is done, is there nothing else to do to fix this
problem?

Thanks in advance,

Best Regards,

Masaharu Kawada wrote:
> Hello kikuchi-san,
>
> Thank you for your response with a precious information.
> Since I am a beginner for mailman, any comments/suggestions
> such as this kind of thing are very helpful for me. Including
> what Mark-san have been doing for me and you have done
> for me as well, I really appreciate the cooperation from  this list.
>
> As for the problem on my question, I will look into the infomation
> that you just gave me, and later on I will compare my customer's
> with one posted in that thread you provided.
>
> Thanks a lot!
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
>   
>> (10/03/03 16:54), Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> Hi Mark-san,
>>>
>>> I got a reply from the customer, but it was not possbile for the customer
>>> to provide the whole digest.mbox to us due to their policy.  However,
>>> sevral parts of the error log and digest.mbox's content have been provided.
>>> As for the error messages, please see the attachment.  And as for the
>>> digest.mbox which might be the problematic one, I see lots of messages look
>>> like below.
>>>
>>>     
>>>       
>> Hi, Kawada san,
>>
>> The problem is that the Japanese mail users/MUA developers use CP-932
>> charset as Shift-JIS and its derivatives (ISO-2022-JP/EUC-JP).  CP-932
>> contains more (extended) characters than Shift-JIS while Python codec is
>> strict on the latter.  The characters like circled numbers fail to be
>> decoded in unicode and cause error.
>>
>> Similar errors are reported in Japanese Mailman users, like the thread
>> starting from:
>> http://mm.tkikuchi.net/pipermail/mmjp-users/2009-February/002487.html
>>
>> A workaround is to patch charset.py in Python email library as:
>>
>> --- Lib/email/charset.py	2009-09-22 08:59:56.000000000 +0900
>> +++ Lib/email/charset.py.orig	2009-09-22 08:58:36.000000000 +0900
>> @@ -264,8 +264,7 @@
>>      def convert(self, s):
>>          """Convert a string from the input_codec to the output_codec."""
>>          if self.input_codec != self.output_codec:
>> -            return unicode(s, self.input_codec, 'replace'
>> -                     ).encode(self.output_codec, 'replace')
>> +            return unicode(s, self.input_codec).encode(self.output_codec)
>>          else:
>>              return s
>>
>>
>>
>>   
>>     
>
>
>   


-- 
-------------------
Masaharu Kawada
Associate Technical Support Engineer
Red Hat K K
Ebisu Neonato 5F
1-18 Ebisu 4-chome, Shibuya-ku
Tokyo 150-0013, Japan
Direct: +81-3-5798-8482


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  3 16:33:24 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 07:33:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <20100303080259.1666cc7e@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
References: <20100225152716.65d658c4@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	<PC195201002251708060671e1865d25@msapiro>	<20100226132029.7afa688f@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	<4B880FB1.4080804@msapiro.net>	<20100302124135.3a765745@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	<4B8D6841.5040809@msapiro.net>
	<20100303080259.1666cc7e@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
Message-ID: <4B8E8144.60007@msapiro.net>

On 3/2/2010 11:02 PM, Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
> 
> Woops, right. it was commented out in my code. For now, I'm pocking
> around with some other problems, such as my external archiver returns
> a non-zero status. It seems to crash with the 
> h.processUnixMailbox(f) Is there any way to have a backtrace of
> python errors (i.e. testing it through the shell)? I guess I can
> write a file with all email content, included headers, and pipe it in
> my file. Right ?


There are several choices.

You could try adding '&>filename' to your external archiver command
string. That will probably work

You can do as you suggest above.

You can replace your "import syslog" with

from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog
from Mailman.Logging.Utils import LogStdErr

and add

LogStdErr('debug', 'mailmanctl', manual_reprime=0)

and change your syslog.syslog('debug text') statements to

syslog('debug', 'debug text')

This will write all stderr output plus your 'debug text' entries to a
log named debug in Mailman's logs directory. (You can name the log
anything you want. It will be created if it doesn't exist.)

I see you've gotten further. I'll respond to that post.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  3 16:44:54 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 07:44:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <20100303095726.37f59c8c@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
References: <20100225152716.65d658c4@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	<PC195201002251708060671e1865d25@msapiro>	<20100226132029.7afa688f@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	<4B880FB1.4080804@msapiro.net>	<20100302124135.3a765745@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	<4B8D6841.5040809@msapiro.net>
	<20100303095726.37f59c8c@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
Message-ID: <4B8E83F6.5050701@msapiro.net>

On 3/3/2010 12:57 AM, Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Mar 2010 11:34:25 -0800
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 3/2/2010 3:41 AM, Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
[...]
>>> from cStringIO import StringIO
[...]
>>> f = StringIO(str(msg))
>>> h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(mlist)
>>> h.processUnixMailbox(f)
[...]
> 
> Hmm, it seems it crashes in pipermail.py, in function processUnixMailbox:
> we have a
> pos = input.tell() on line 564, but unfortunately "input" does NOT have any "tell()" method...
> It returns a "41" status.


Something is strange. The input object in 'pos = input.tell()' is the
StringIO instance you passed as 'f', and StringIO objects do have a tell
method. Also, the above code snippet is exactly what the builtin
archiver uses, and I tested it and it worked for me.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  3 17:58:57 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 08:58:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments are unexpectedly re-created.
In-Reply-To: <4B8E34C5.7020308@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201003030858570218689fa193@msapiro>

Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>
>There is one thing that I wonder, is that if the charset.py is done with
>that patch, what the current digest.mbox exsisted under lists/<listname>
>are supposed to be? Do they need to be deleted or not? My point on
>this is that once the patch is done, is there nothing else to do to fix this
>problem?


That is correct. Assuming the underlying issue is fixed by the patch,
all you need to do is apply the patch to the Python email library
charset.py module (probably at
/usr/lib/pythonx.x/lib/email/charset.py) and restart Mailman. Then the
next time the digest is triggered, it will be sent with all messages
and no more errors.

If you apply the patch and restart Mailman and the errors continue,
then they are caused by something else.

Note that the patch:

--- Lib/email/charset.py	2009-09-22 08:59:56.000000000 +0900
+++ Lib/email/charset.py.orig	2009-09-22 08:58:36.000000000 +0900
@@ -264,8 +264,7 @@
     def convert(self, s):
         """Convert a string from the input_codec to the
output_codec."""
         if self.input_codec != self.output_codec:
-            return unicode(s, self.input_codec, 'replace'
-                     ).encode(self.output_codec, 'replace')
+            return unicode(s,
self.input_codec).encode(self.output_codec)
         else:
             return s

is reversed. The '+' is the original code and the '-' is the new code.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  3 18:13:47 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 09:13:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling list archiving
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1003031127300.2721@data.home>
Message-ID: <PC195201003030913470796689fa3cb@msapiro>

Geoff Shang wrote:
>
>We've got an archive taking up a fair amount of space, but much of the 
>traffic on that list is transient and doesn't need to be archived.  So 
>we've decided to stop archiving it and to remove existing archives.
>
>Apart from turning off archiving in the list configuration and removing 
>the public and private archive directories, is there anything else I need 
>to do?


No, but I would set the archive up like a new list with no messages.

I.e. remove the archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file, but
keep the archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/ directory, and remove
everything from the archives/private/LISTNAME/ directory and add a
archives/private/LISTNAME/index.html file with a page that says the
list doesn't archive.

Leave the archives/public/LISTNAME* symlink(s) alone.

This is because there is code which is executed every time a list
object is saved which checks whether the list's archive is private or
public and removes or creates the archives/public/LISTNAME* symlink(s)
accordingly. This code executes even if archiving is turned off for a
list. It only doesn't execute if archiving is disabled for the site
with

ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = -1

in mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  Wed Mar  3 18:20:03 2010
From: cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com (=?UTF-8?Q?C=C3=A9dric_Jeanneret?=)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 18:20:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <4B8E83F6.5050701@msapiro.net>
References: <20100225152716.65d658c4@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<PC195201002251708060671e1865d25@msapiro>
	<20100226132029.7afa688f@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<4B880FB1.4080804@msapiro.net>
	<20100302124135.3a765745@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<4B8D6841.5040809@msapiro.net>
	<20100303095726.37f59c8c@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<4B8E83F6.5050701@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <7f569b521003030920y6d09cab9od671ca8b174239d8@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> On 3/3/2010 12:57 AM, Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
>> On Tue, 02 Mar 2010 11:34:25 -0800
>> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/2/2010 3:41 AM, Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
> [...]
>>>> from cStringIO import StringIO
> [...]
>>>> f = StringIO(str(msg))
>>>> h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(mlist)
>>>> h.processUnixMailbox(f)
> [...]
>>
>> Hmm, it seems it crashes in pipermail.py, in function processUnixMailbox:
>> we have a
>> pos = input.tell() on line 564, but unfortunately "input" does NOT have any "tell()" method...
>> It returns a "41" status.
>
>
> Something is strange. The input object in 'pos = input.tell()' is the
> StringIO instance you passed as 'f', and StringIO objects do have a tell
> method. Also, the above code snippet is exactly what the builtin
> archiver uses, and I tested it and it worked for me.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> ? ? ? ?The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California ? ?better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

Maybe a python version? What is really strange is that it works inside
the archiver.... I tried to NOT use email.message_from_file (so use
directly StringIO on sys.stdin), and it worked fine. In fact, the
error was that "Message doesn't have "tell()" method"...

Another error was really annoying : ALL worked. almost. I couldn't do
my mlist.Save(), as there was an error for the lockfile.

I did :
mlist = MailList.MailList('toto', lock=False)
# other code
mlist.Save()

-> crashed. After poking into MailList code, I saw that it refreshes
the lockfile. Commenting out this line made it work again.... more or
less : message was in mbox, but wasn't in pipermail archives....

Poking on the Net, I found this post
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg47499.html you
answered some months (well, years) ago. I tried this way :
applying the patch, so that it uses mailman internal archiver, and it
calls my indexer right after.
That's not really clean, it's not really a portable way, but it works.
The fact that I have to patch a file from mailman package annoy me a
bit, but... I didn't have any success with the ways you showed me :(


To be honnest, maybe I'll try to put a handler (like XapianIndexer.py)
for this. As I saw how to debug my scripts (thank you for the tip), I
guess it would be the best way, instead of patching a code (which will
be overriden on the next update).

Or maybe there's a variable in mm_config (or defaults) which tell
mailman to call a script after archiving ? I didn't see such a thing,
I guess that's the role a the GLOBAL_PIPELINE and its handlers
chain...


Thank you for the time you spend on my problem.

Best regards,

C.

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  3 18:25:08 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 09:25:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsuscribe problem
In-Reply-To: <584954161003030152r2ce814b3o661d1fc304dbdc15@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520100303092508040606d2dc5e@msapiro>

Roberto Gherardi de Candei wrote:
>
>I'm an admin of newsletters, by email I delete users without entering the
>password in the subject and without arrivals cancellation confirmation to
>users
>
>I do this?


In order to unsubscribe a user by email without confirmation the users
list password must be in the command as in

  unsubscribe password address=user at example.com

This command could be the first line of the body rather than the
Subject: header, but it must include the user's list password to avoid
confirmation. Otherwise, anyone could unsubscribe someone else without
their knowledge.

You can avoid confirmation by setting the list's Privacy options... ->
Subscription rules -> unsubscribe_policy to Yes, but then an admin or
moderator would need to approve the unsubscribe before it will be
effective.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  3 19:04:31 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 10:04:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <7f569b521003030920y6d09cab9od671ca8b174239d8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100225152716.65d658c4@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	
	<PC195201002251708060671e1865d25@msapiro>	
	<20100226132029.7afa688f@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	
	<4B880FB1.4080804@msapiro.net>	
	<20100302124135.3a765745@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	
	<4B8D6841.5040809@msapiro.net>	
	<20100303095726.37f59c8c@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	
	<4B8E83F6.5050701@msapiro.net>
	<7f569b521003030920y6d09cab9od671ca8b174239d8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B8EA4AF.9010904@msapiro.net>

On 3/3/2010 9:20 AM, C?dric Jeanneret wrote:
> 
> Maybe a python version? What is really strange is that it works inside
> the archiver.... I tried to NOT use email.message_from_file (so use
> directly StringIO on sys.stdin), and it worked fine. In fact, the
> error was that "Message doesn't have "tell()" method"...


Which says you are passing a Message object, not a StringIO or file
object. I considered at one point just passing sys.stdin directly, but
that won't work because sys.stdin does not have seek() or tell() methods.


> Another error was really annoying : ALL worked. almost. I couldn't do
> my mlist.Save(), as there was an error for the lockfile.
> 
> I did :
> mlist = MailList.MailList('toto', lock=False)
> # other code
> mlist.Save()


Right. I overlooked the fact that you can't Save() an unlocked list.
But, I don't think you need to. I don't think the archiver actually
updates your list instance in it's processing, so you should be OK if
you just remove the Save() from your code.


> -> crashed. After poking into MailList code, I saw that it refreshes
> the lockfile. Commenting out this line made it work again.... more or
> less : message was in mbox, but wasn't in pipermail archives....


Don't do that. It won't work anyway because the locked list object in
ArchRunner will be saved after you're done and will undo any changes you
made to your list object. But, as I say, you shouldn't need to save your
list object. It is only passed to the HyperArch.HyperArchive()
constructor so the archiver knows where to find the archive. I don't
think it is updated.


> Poking on the Net, I found this post
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg47499.html you
> answered some months (well, years) ago. I tried this way :
> applying the patch, so that it uses mailman internal archiver, and it
> calls my indexer right after.
> That's not really clean, it's not really a portable way, but it works.
> The fact that I have to patch a file from mailman package annoy me a
> bit, but... I didn't have any success with the ways you showed me :(
> 
> 
> To be honnest, maybe I'll try to put a handler (like XapianIndexer.py)
> for this. As I saw how to debug my scripts (thank you for the tip), I
> guess it would be the best way, instead of patching a code (which will
> be overriden on the next update).
> 
> Or maybe there's a variable in mm_config (or defaults) which tell
> mailman to call a script after archiving ? I didn't see such a thing,
> I guess that's the role a the GLOBAL_PIPELINE and its handlers
> chain...

As I tried to point out in my initial reply
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-February/068900.html>,
that won't work.

The pipeline includes ToArchive which only queues the message in the
archive queue for ArchRunner. Then IncomingRunner continues processing
the pipeline. When it gets to your handler, there's no guarantee that
ArchRunner has yet archived the message so how do you index something
that may not yet even be there.

We were almost there with the external archiver method. Let's try to
make that work.

What do you have now in the external archiver code and in the
PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER strings and what
is the problem?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From khillo100 at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  3 21:04:11 2010
From: khillo100 at hotmail.com (Khalil Abbas)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 20:04:11 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] what's going on ???
Message-ID: <COL105-W4959A816B8DDEA51A63C98FB3A0@phx.gbl>


hi,

 

I have 2 lists on the same server containing 40,000 subscribers, 20,000 in each list ..

 

I've been getting hundreds of complaints from people that they're not getting any mail from the lists.. I checked the lists and found that LIST1 has only 574 members!! while the other list (LIST2) has not changed.. I re-uploaded the list from backup and after sometime it gets down to 500+ subscribers!! then I switched subscribers between the lists and now LIST2 is having he 500 subscribers and LIST1 hasn't changed !! knowing that ALL addresses in the lists are valid! 

 

please help!

 

 

Thanks..

 

 

 
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar  3 22:43:31 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 13:43:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] what's going on ???
In-Reply-To: <COL105-W4959A816B8DDEA51A63C98FB3A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC1952010030313433106874980e88e@msapiro>

Khalil Abbas wrote:
>
>I've been getting hundreds of complaints from people that they're not getting any mail from the lists.. I checked the lists and found that LIST1 has only 574 members!! while the other list (LIST2) has not changed.. I re-uploaded the list from backup and after sometime it gets down to 500+ subscribers!! then I switched subscribers between the lists and now LIST2 is having he 500 subscribers and LIST1 hasn't changed !! knowing that ALL addresses in the lists are valid! 


I suspect that bounce processing is deleting members. Check Mailman's
bounce, subscribe and smtp-failure logs.

I also suspect your server is blacklisted and recipient servers are
rejecting all your mail. Check your outgoing MTA's logs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Wed Mar  3 23:04:20 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 00:04:20 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] what's going on ???
In-Reply-To: <COL105-W4959A816B8DDEA51A63C98FB3A0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL105-W4959A816B8DDEA51A63C98FB3A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1003032359520.2721@data.home>

On Wed, 3 Mar 2010, Khalil Abbas wrote:

> I've been getting hundreds of complaints from people that they're not 
> getting any mail from the lists.. I checked the lists and found that 
> LIST1 has only 574 members!! while the other list (LIST2) has not 
> changed..

My guess is that one or more mail providers are bouncing your messages.

If you've got access to your mail server logs you can check them.  If you 
don't, you can set Mailman to send you a copy of any bounce messages, 
though be careful as if 97.5% of your list is being bounced off then your 
inbox might get swamped.

Geoff.


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Thu Mar  4 00:22:55 2010
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 08:22:55 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments are unexpectedly re-created.
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003030858570218689fa193@msapiro>
References: <PC195201003030858570218689fa193@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B8EEF4F.9020703@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

(10/03/04 1:58), Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>>
>> There is one thing that I wonder, is that if the charset.py is done with
>> that patch, what the current digest.mbox exsisted under lists/<listname>
>> are supposed to be? Do they need to be deleted or not? My point on
>> this is that once the patch is done, is there nothing else to do to fix this
>> problem?
> 
> 
> That is correct. Assuming the underlying issue is fixed by the patch,
> all you need to do is apply the patch to the Python email library
> charset.py module (probably at
> /usr/lib/pythonx.x/lib/email/charset.py) and restart Mailman. Then the
> next time the digest is triggered, it will be sent with all messages
> and no more errors.
> 
> If you apply the patch and restart Mailman and the errors continue,
> then they are caused by something else.

In addition, you should have a lot of shunted messages in qfiles/shunt.
 They are safely deleted.

> 
> Note that the patch:
> 
> --- Lib/email/charset.py	2009-09-22 08:59:56.000000000 +0900
> +++ Lib/email/charset.py.orig	2009-09-22 08:58:36.000000000 +0900
> @@ -264,8 +264,7 @@
>      def convert(self, s):
>          """Convert a string from the input_codec to the
> output_codec."""
>          if self.input_codec != self.output_codec:
> -            return unicode(s, self.input_codec, 'replace'
> -                     ).encode(self.output_codec, 'replace')
> +            return unicode(s,
> self.input_codec).encode(self.output_codec)
>          else:
>              return s
> 
> is reversed. The '+' is the original code and the '-' is the new code.
> 

Yes.  Thanks Mark.


-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/

From mkawada at redhat.com  Thu Mar  4 03:47:59 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 11:47:59 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments are unexpectedly re-created.
In-Reply-To: <4B8EEF4F.9020703@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <PC195201003030858570218689fa193@msapiro>
	<4B8EEF4F.9020703@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4B8F1F5F.5010008@redhat.com>

Hi Mark-san, Kikuchi-san,

Thank you very much for your help.

Just to make sure, about the patch, is it just need to be modified in the
way you mentioned? Which means that it should be look like below.

# vi  /usr/lib/python2.4/email/Charset.py

---<Before modifying>---
    243     def convert(self, s):
    244         """Convert a string from the input_codec to the 
output_codec."""
    245         if self.input_codec <> self.output_codec:
    246             return unicode(s, 
self.input_codec).encode(self.output_codec)
    247         else:
    248             return s

---<After modifying>---
    243     def convert(self, s):
    244         """Convert a string from the input_codec to the 
output_codec."""
    245         if self.input_codec != self.output_codec:
    246             return unicode(s, self.input_codec, 
'replace').encode(self.output_codec, 'replace')
    247             return unicode(s, 
self.input_codec).encode(self.output_codec)
    248         else:
    249             return s

Best Regards,

Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> Hi,
>
> (10/03/04 1:58), Mark Sapiro wrote:
>   
>> Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>>     
>>> There is one thing that I wonder, is that if the charset.py is done with
>>> that patch, what the current digest.mbox exsisted under lists/<listname>
>>> are supposed to be? Do they need to be deleted or not? My point on
>>> this is that once the patch is done, is there nothing else to do to fix this
>>> problem?
>>>       
>> That is correct. Assuming the underlying issue is fixed by the patch,
>> all you need to do is apply the patch to the Python email library
>> charset.py module (probably at
>> /usr/lib/pythonx.x/lib/email/charset.py) and restart Mailman. Then the
>> next time the digest is triggered, it will be sent with all messages
>> and no more errors.
>>
>> If you apply the patch and restart Mailman and the errors continue,
>> then they are caused by something else.
>>     
>
> In addition, you should have a lot of shunted messages in qfiles/shunt.
>  They are safely deleted.
>
>   
>> Note that the patch:
>>
>> --- Lib/email/charset.py	2009-09-22 08:59:56.000000000 +0900
>> +++ Lib/email/charset.py.orig	2009-09-22 08:58:36.000000000 +0900
>> @@ -264,8 +264,7 @@
>>      def convert(self, s):
>>          """Convert a string from the input_codec to the
>> output_codec."""
>>          if self.input_codec != self.output_codec:
>> -            return unicode(s, self.input_codec, 'replace'
>> -                     ).encode(self.output_codec, 'replace')
>> +            return unicode(s,
>> self.input_codec).encode(self.output_codec)
>>          else:
>>              return s
>>
>> is reversed. The '+' is the original code and the '-' is the new code.
>>
>>     
>
> Yes.  Thanks Mark.
>
>
>   


-- 
-------------------
Masaharu Kawada
Associate Technical Support Engineer
Red Hat K K
Ebisu Neonato 5F
1-18 Ebisu 4-chome, Shibuya-ku
Tokyo 150-0013, Japan
Direct: +81-3-5798-8482


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Thu Mar  4 03:57:26 2010
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 11:57:26 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments are unexpectedly re-created.
In-Reply-To: <4B8F1F5F.5010008@redhat.com>
References: <PC195201003030858570218689fa193@msapiro>	<4B8EEF4F.9020703@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
	<4B8F1F5F.5010008@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <4B8F2196.1060101@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

(10/03/04 11:47), Masaharu Kawada wrote:
> Hi Mark-san, Kikuchi-san,
> 
> Thank you very much for your help.
> 
> Just to make sure, about the patch, is it just need to be modified in the
> way you mentioned? Which means that it should be look like below.

Yes, its OK.

> 
> # vi  /usr/lib/python2.4/email/Charset.py
> 
> ---<Before modifying>---
>    243     def convert(self, s):
>    244         """Convert a string from the input_codec to the
> output_codec."""
>    245         if self.input_codec <> self.output_codec:
>    246             return unicode(s,
> self.input_codec).encode(self.output_codec)
>    247         else:
>    248             return s
> 
> ---<After modifying>---
>    243     def convert(self, s):
>    244         """Convert a string from the input_codec to the
> output_codec."""
>    245         if self.input_codec != self.output_codec:
>    246             return unicode(s, self.input_codec,
> 'replace').encode(self.output_codec, 'replace')
>    247             return unicode(s,
> self.input_codec).encode(self.output_codec)
>    248         else:
>    249             return s
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> (10/03/04 1:58), Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>  
>>> Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>>>    
>>>> There is one thing that I wonder, is that if the charset.py is done
>>>> with
>>>> that patch, what the current digest.mbox exsisted under
>>>> lists/<listname>
>>>> are supposed to be? Do they need to be deleted or not? My point on
>>>> this is that once the patch is done, is there nothing else to do to
>>>> fix this
>>>> problem?
>>>>       
>>> That is correct. Assuming the underlying issue is fixed by the patch,
>>> all you need to do is apply the patch to the Python email library
>>> charset.py module (probably at
>>> /usr/lib/pythonx.x/lib/email/charset.py) and restart Mailman. Then the
>>> next time the digest is triggered, it will be sent with all messages
>>> and no more errors.
>>>
>>> If you apply the patch and restart Mailman and the errors continue,
>>> then they are caused by something else.
>>>     
>>
>> In addition, you should have a lot of shunted messages in qfiles/shunt.
>>  They are safely deleted.
>>
>>  
>>> Note that the patch:
>>>
>>> --- Lib/email/charset.py    2009-09-22 08:59:56.000000000 +0900
>>> +++ Lib/email/charset.py.orig    2009-09-22 08:58:36.000000000 +0900
>>> @@ -264,8 +264,7 @@
>>>      def convert(self, s):
>>>          """Convert a string from the input_codec to the
>>> output_codec."""
>>>          if self.input_codec != self.output_codec:
>>> -            return unicode(s, self.input_codec, 'replace'
>>> -                     ).encode(self.output_codec, 'replace')
>>> +            return unicode(s,
>>> self.input_codec).encode(self.output_codec)
>>>          else:
>>>              return s
>>>
>>> is reversed. The '+' is the original code and the '-' is the new code.
>>>
>>>     
>>
>> Yes.  Thanks Mark.
>>
>>
>>   
> 
> 


-- 
Tokio Kikuchi tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/

From mkawada at redhat.com  Thu Mar  4 04:57:00 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 12:57:00 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments are unexpectedly re-created.
In-Reply-To: <4B8F2196.1060101@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <PC195201003030858570218689fa193@msapiro>	<4B8EEF4F.9020703@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>	<4B8F1F5F.5010008@redhat.com>
	<4B8F2196.1060101@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4B8F2F8C.1060806@redhat.com>

Kikuchi-san, Mark-san,

I will ask the customer to consider patching it.

Thanks a million!!!

Best Regards,

Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> (10/03/04 11:47), Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>   
>> Hi Mark-san, Kikuchi-san,
>>
>> Thank you very much for your help.
>>
>> Just to make sure, about the patch, is it just need to be modified in the
>> way you mentioned? Which means that it should be look like below.
>>     
>
> Yes, its OK.
>
>   
>> # vi  /usr/lib/python2.4/email/Charset.py
>>
>> ---<Before modifying>---
>>    243     def convert(self, s):
>>    244         """Convert a string from the input_codec to the
>> output_codec."""
>>    245         if self.input_codec <> self.output_codec:
>>    246             return unicode(s,
>> self.input_codec).encode(self.output_codec)
>>    247         else:
>>    248             return s
>>
>> ---<After modifying>---
>>    243     def convert(self, s):
>>    244         """Convert a string from the input_codec to the
>> output_codec."""
>>    245         if self.input_codec != self.output_codec:
>>    246             return unicode(s, self.input_codec,
>> 'replace').encode(self.output_codec, 'replace')
>>    247             return unicode(s,
>> self.input_codec).encode(self.output_codec)
>>    248         else:
>>    249             return s
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
>>     
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> (10/03/04 1:58), Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>>  
>>>       
>>>> Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>>>>    
>>>>         
>>>>> There is one thing that I wonder, is that if the charset.py is done
>>>>> with
>>>>> that patch, what the current digest.mbox exsisted under
>>>>> lists/<listname>
>>>>> are supposed to be? Do they need to be deleted or not? My point on
>>>>> this is that once the patch is done, is there nothing else to do to
>>>>> fix this
>>>>> problem?
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>>>> That is correct. Assuming the underlying issue is fixed by the patch,
>>>> all you need to do is apply the patch to the Python email library
>>>> charset.py module (probably at
>>>> /usr/lib/pythonx.x/lib/email/charset.py) and restart Mailman. Then the
>>>> next time the digest is triggered, it will be sent with all messages
>>>> and no more errors.
>>>>
>>>> If you apply the patch and restart Mailman and the errors continue,
>>>> then they are caused by something else.
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>> In addition, you should have a lot of shunted messages in qfiles/shunt.
>>>  They are safely deleted.
>>>
>>>  
>>>       
>>>> Note that the patch:
>>>>
>>>> --- Lib/email/charset.py    2009-09-22 08:59:56.000000000 +0900
>>>> +++ Lib/email/charset.py.orig    2009-09-22 08:58:36.000000000 +0900
>>>> @@ -264,8 +264,7 @@
>>>>      def convert(self, s):
>>>>          """Convert a string from the input_codec to the
>>>> output_codec."""
>>>>          if self.input_codec != self.output_codec:
>>>> -            return unicode(s, self.input_codec, 'replace'
>>>> -                     ).encode(self.output_codec, 'replace')
>>>> +            return unicode(s,
>>>> self.input_codec).encode(self.output_codec)
>>>>          else:
>>>>              return s
>>>>
>>>> is reversed. The '+' is the original code and the '-' is the new code.
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>> Yes.  Thanks Mark.
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>>     
>
>
>   


-- 
-------------------
Masaharu Kawada
Associate Technical Support Engineer
Red Hat K K
Ebisu Neonato 5F
1-18 Ebisu 4-chome, Shibuya-ku
Tokyo 150-0013, Japan
Direct: +81-3-5798-8482


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar  4 05:15:04 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 20:15:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments are unexpectedly re-created.
In-Reply-To: <4B8F2F8C.1060806@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201003032015040093d7c61d61@msapiro>

Masaharu Kawada wrote:

>Kikuchi-san, Mark-san,
>
>I will ask the customer to consider patching it.
>
>Thanks a million!!!
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
>> (10/03/04 11:47), Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>>   
>>> Hi Mark-san, Kikuchi-san,
>>>
>>> Thank you very much for your help.
>>>
>>> Just to make sure, about the patch, is it just need to be modified in the
>>> way you mentioned? Which means that it should be look like below.
>>>     
>>
>> Yes, its OK.
>>
>>   
>>> # vi  /usr/lib/python2.4/email/Charset.py
>>>
>>> ---<Before modifying>---
>>>    243     def convert(self, s):
>>>    244         """Convert a string from the input_codec to the output_codec."""
>>>    245         if self.input_codec <> self.output_codec:
>>>    246             return unicode(s, self.input_codec).encode(self.output_codec)
>>>    247         else:
>>>    248             return s
>>>
>>> ---<After modifying>---
>>>    243     def convert(self, s):
>>>    244         """Convert a string from the input_codec to the
>>> output_codec."""
>>>    245         if self.input_codec != self.output_codec:
>>>    246             return unicode(s, self.input_codec,
>>> 'replace').encode(self.output_codec, 'replace')
>>>    247             return unicode(s,
>>> self.input_codec).encode(self.output_codec)
>>>    248         else:
>>>    249             return s
>>>


Actually, that's not quite right. It should be

>>> ---<After modifying>---
>>>    243     def convert(self, s):
>>>    244         """Convert a string from the input_codec to the output_codec."""
>>>    245         if self.input_codec != self.output_codec:
>>>    246             return unicode(s, self.input_codec, 'replace'
>>>    247                      ).encode(self.output_codec, 'replace')
>>>    248         else:
>>>    249             return s


The exact line numbers will depend on the Python version.

Although, what you have would work because the first return at line 246
is correct although it is all on one line and the second return at
line 246 which is the problem will never be reached.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  Thu Mar  4 07:43:07 2010
From: cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com (Cedric Jeanneret)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 07:43:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <4B8EA4AF.9010904@msapiro.net>
References: <20100225152716.65d658c4@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<PC195201002251708060671e1865d25@msapiro>
	<20100226132029.7afa688f@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<4B880FB1.4080804@msapiro.net>
	<20100302124135.3a765745@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<4B8D6841.5040809@msapiro.net>
	<20100303095726.37f59c8c@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<4B8E83F6.5050701@msapiro.net>
	<7f569b521003030920y6d09cab9od671ca8b174239d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8EA4AF.9010904@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20100304074307.4e68cd41@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>

On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 10:04:31 -0800
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 3/3/2010 9:20 AM, C?dric Jeanneret wrote:
> > 
> > Maybe a python version? What is really strange is that it works inside
> > the archiver.... I tried to NOT use email.message_from_file (so use
> > directly StringIO on sys.stdin), and it worked fine. In fact, the
> > error was that "Message doesn't have "tell()" method"...
> 
> 
> Which says you are passing a Message object, not a StringIO or file
> object. I considered at one point just passing sys.stdin directly, but
> that won't work because sys.stdin does not have seek() or tell() methods.
> 
> 
> > Another error was really annoying : ALL worked. almost. I couldn't do
> > my mlist.Save(), as there was an error for the lockfile.
> > 
> > I did :
> > mlist = MailList.MailList('toto', lock=False)
> > # other code
> > mlist.Save()
> 
> 
> Right. I overlooked the fact that you can't Save() an unlocked list.
> But, I don't think you need to. I don't think the archiver actually
> updates your list instance in it's processing, so you should be OK if
> you just remove the Save() from your code.
> 
> 
> > -> crashed. After poking into MailList code, I saw that it refreshes
> > the lockfile. Commenting out this line made it work again.... more or
> > less : message was in mbox, but wasn't in pipermail archives....
> 
> 
> Don't do that. It won't work anyway because the locked list object in
> ArchRunner will be saved after you're done and will undo any changes you
> made to your list object. But, as I say, you shouldn't need to save your
> list object. It is only passed to the HyperArch.HyperArchive()
> constructor so the archiver knows where to find the archive. I don't
> think it is updated.
> 
> 
> > Poking on the Net, I found this post
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg47499.html you
> > answered some months (well, years) ago. I tried this way :
> > applying the patch, so that it uses mailman internal archiver, and it
> > calls my indexer right after.
> > That's not really clean, it's not really a portable way, but it works.
> > The fact that I have to patch a file from mailman package annoy me a
> > bit, but... I didn't have any success with the ways you showed me :(
> > 
> > 
> > To be honnest, maybe I'll try to put a handler (like XapianIndexer.py)
> > for this. As I saw how to debug my scripts (thank you for the tip), I
> > guess it would be the best way, instead of patching a code (which will
> > be overriden on the next update).
> > 
> > Or maybe there's a variable in mm_config (or defaults) which tell
> > mailman to call a script after archiving ? I didn't see such a thing,
> > I guess that's the role a the GLOBAL_PIPELINE and its handlers
> > chain...
> 
> As I tried to point out in my initial reply
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-February/068900.html>,
> that won't work.
> 
> The pipeline includes ToArchive which only queues the message in the
> archive queue for ArchRunner. Then IncomingRunner continues processing
> the pipeline. When it gets to your handler, there's no guarantee that
> ArchRunner has yet archived the message so how do you index something
> that may not yet even be there.
> 
> We were almost there with the external archiver method. Let's try to
> make that work.
> 
> What do you have now in the external archiver code and in the
> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER strings and what
> is the problem?
> 

Hello again,

First of all, I want to thank you for the time you spend on my case. I really appreciate.

Now, for my code:
I attached the latest (buggy) version of my archive-and-index.py script. I've done a rollback to the way you told me, so that we won't go in all directions.
You'll find anotther attachment : debug file I added in this way :
PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/root/archive-and-index.py %(hostname)s %(listname)s &>/var/log/mailman/archiver'

It seems that the Message.Message stays, even if we create a new StringIO variable... weird.
Just in case :
python --version
Python 2.5.2

Maybe there's a problem with this version... ? If so, it will be a "little" problem, as it's the lenny version.

I'll keep on trying, and keep you updated as soon as I have some new things.

Thanks again.

Best regards,

C.


-- 
C?dric Jeanneret                 |  System Administrator
021 619 10 32                    |  Camptocamp SA
cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  |  PSE-A / EPFL
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 197 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100304/a167001b/attachment.pgp>

From cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  Thu Mar  4 13:23:02 2010
From: cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com (Cedric Jeanneret)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 13:23:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <4B8EA4AF.9010904@msapiro.net>
References: <20100225152716.65d658c4@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<PC195201002251708060671e1865d25@msapiro>
	<20100226132029.7afa688f@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<4B880FB1.4080804@msapiro.net>
	<20100302124135.3a765745@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<4B8D6841.5040809@msapiro.net>
	<20100303095726.37f59c8c@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<4B8E83F6.5050701@msapiro.net>
	<7f569b521003030920y6d09cab9od671ca8b174239d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8EA4AF.9010904@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20100304132302.3aba6ef9@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>

On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 10:04:31 -0800
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 3/3/2010 9:20 AM, C?dric Jeanneret wrote:
> > 
> > Maybe a python version? What is really strange is that it works inside
> > the archiver.... I tried to NOT use email.message_from_file (so use
> > directly StringIO on sys.stdin), and it worked fine. In fact, the
> > error was that "Message doesn't have "tell()" method"...
> 
> 
> Which says you are passing a Message object, not a StringIO or file
> object. I considered at one point just passing sys.stdin directly, but
> that won't work because sys.stdin does not have seek() or tell() methods.
> 
> 
> > Another error was really annoying : ALL worked. almost. I couldn't do
> > my mlist.Save(), as there was an error for the lockfile.
> > 
> > I did :
> > mlist = MailList.MailList('toto', lock=False)
> > # other code
> > mlist.Save()
> 
> 
> Right. I overlooked the fact that you can't Save() an unlocked list.
> But, I don't think you need to. I don't think the archiver actually
> updates your list instance in it's processing, so you should be OK if
> you just remove the Save() from your code.
> 
> 
> > -> crashed. After poking into MailList code, I saw that it refreshes
> > the lockfile. Commenting out this line made it work again.... more or
> > less : message was in mbox, but wasn't in pipermail archives....
> 
> 
> Don't do that. It won't work anyway because the locked list object in
> ArchRunner will be saved after you're done and will undo any changes you
> made to your list object. But, as I say, you shouldn't need to save your
> list object. It is only passed to the HyperArch.HyperArchive()
> constructor so the archiver knows where to find the archive. I don't
> think it is updated.
> 
> 
> > Poking on the Net, I found this post
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg47499.html you
> > answered some months (well, years) ago. I tried this way :
> > applying the patch, so that it uses mailman internal archiver, and it
> > calls my indexer right after.
> > That's not really clean, it's not really a portable way, but it works.
> > The fact that I have to patch a file from mailman package annoy me a
> > bit, but... I didn't have any success with the ways you showed me :(
> > 
> > 
> > To be honnest, maybe I'll try to put a handler (like XapianIndexer.py)
> > for this. As I saw how to debug my scripts (thank you for the tip), I
> > guess it would be the best way, instead of patching a code (which will
> > be overriden on the next update).
> > 
> > Or maybe there's a variable in mm_config (or defaults) which tell
> > mailman to call a script after archiving ? I didn't see such a thing,
> > I guess that's the role a the GLOBAL_PIPELINE and its handlers
> > chain...
> 
> As I tried to point out in my initial reply
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-February/068900.html>,
> that won't work.
> 
> The pipeline includes ToArchive which only queues the message in the
> archive queue for ArchRunner. Then IncomingRunner continues processing
> the pipeline. When it gets to your handler, there's no guarantee that
> ArchRunner has yet archived the message so how do you index something
> that may not yet even be there.
> 
> We were almost there with the external archiver method. Let's try to
> make that work.
> 
> What do you have now in the external archiver code and in the
> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER strings and what
> is the problem?
> 

Hello again !

I think I found what's the problem is :
the script works now, but as I write my own archiver, it doesn't do the pipermail part (i.e. update mails in archive)... I thought that this code :

mlist = MailList.MailList(maillist, lock=False)
msg = email.message_from_file(sys.stdin, Message.Message)
f = StringIO(str(sys.stdin))
h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(mlist)
h.processUnixMailbox(f)
f.close()

did all, but after reading a bit of code, it doesn't exactly. It saves to .mbox file, right ?

I tried to find where it does the pipermail stuff, but it's a bit complicated [I'm not so at ease with Python].

Any clue ?

Thank you

-- 
C?dric Jeanneret                 |  System Administrator
021 619 10 32                    |  Camptocamp SA
cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  |  PSE-A / EPFL
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 197 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100304/938e890c/attachment.pgp>

From cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  Thu Mar  4 13:46:26 2010
From: cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com (Cedric Jeanneret)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 13:46:26 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <4B8EA4AF.9010904@msapiro.net>
References: <20100225152716.65d658c4@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<PC195201002251708060671e1865d25@msapiro>
	<20100226132029.7afa688f@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<4B880FB1.4080804@msapiro.net>
	<20100302124135.3a765745@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<4B8D6841.5040809@msapiro.net>
	<20100303095726.37f59c8c@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<4B8E83F6.5050701@msapiro.net>
	<7f569b521003030920y6d09cab9od671ca8b174239d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8EA4AF.9010904@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20100304134626.1c1db19a@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>

On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 10:04:31 -0800
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 3/3/2010 9:20 AM, C?dric Jeanneret wrote:
> > 
> > Maybe a python version? What is really strange is that it works inside
> > the archiver.... I tried to NOT use email.message_from_file (so use
> > directly StringIO on sys.stdin), and it worked fine. In fact, the
> > error was that "Message doesn't have "tell()" method"...
> 
> 
> Which says you are passing a Message object, not a StringIO or file
> object. I considered at one point just passing sys.stdin directly, but
> that won't work because sys.stdin does not have seek() or tell() methods.
> 
> 
> > Another error was really annoying : ALL worked. almost. I couldn't do
> > my mlist.Save(), as there was an error for the lockfile.
> > 
> > I did :
> > mlist = MailList.MailList('toto', lock=False)
> > # other code
> > mlist.Save()
> 
> 
> Right. I overlooked the fact that you can't Save() an unlocked list.
> But, I don't think you need to. I don't think the archiver actually
> updates your list instance in it's processing, so you should be OK if
> you just remove the Save() from your code.
> 
> 
> > -> crashed. After poking into MailList code, I saw that it refreshes
> > the lockfile. Commenting out this line made it work again.... more or
> > less : message was in mbox, but wasn't in pipermail archives....
> 
> 
> Don't do that. It won't work anyway because the locked list object in
> ArchRunner will be saved after you're done and will undo any changes you
> made to your list object. But, as I say, you shouldn't need to save your
> list object. It is only passed to the HyperArch.HyperArchive()
> constructor so the archiver knows where to find the archive. I don't
> think it is updated.
> 
> 
> > Poking on the Net, I found this post
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg47499.html you
> > answered some months (well, years) ago. I tried this way :
> > applying the patch, so that it uses mailman internal archiver, and it
> > calls my indexer right after.
> > That's not really clean, it's not really a portable way, but it works.
> > The fact that I have to patch a file from mailman package annoy me a
> > bit, but... I didn't have any success with the ways you showed me :(
> > 
> > 
> > To be honnest, maybe I'll try to put a handler (like XapianIndexer.py)
> > for this. As I saw how to debug my scripts (thank you for the tip), I
> > guess it would be the best way, instead of patching a code (which will
> > be overriden on the next update).
> > 
> > Or maybe there's a variable in mm_config (or defaults) which tell
> > mailman to call a script after archiving ? I didn't see such a thing,
> > I guess that's the role a the GLOBAL_PIPELINE and its handlers
> > chain...
> 
> As I tried to point out in my initial reply
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-February/068900.html>,
> that won't work.
> 
> The pipeline includes ToArchive which only queues the message in the
> archive queue for ArchRunner. Then IncomingRunner continues processing
> the pipeline. When it gets to your handler, there's no guarantee that
> ArchRunner has yet archived the message so how do you index something
> that may not yet even be there.
> 
> We were almost there with the external archiver method. Let's try to
> make that work.
> 
> What do you have now in the external archiver code and in the
> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER strings and what
> is the problem?
> 

uho, found it !!
mailman/bin/arch toto

I guess that's all :))

-- 
C?dric Jeanneret                 |  System Administrator
021 619 10 32                    |  Camptocamp SA
cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  |  PSE-A / EPFL
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 197 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100304/072bdd73/attachment.pgp>

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar  4 15:49:54 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 06:49:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <20100304132302.3aba6ef9@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
References: <20100225152716.65d658c4@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	<PC195201002251708060671e1865d25@msapiro>	<20100226132029.7afa688f@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	<4B880FB1.4080804@msapiro.net>	<20100302124135.3a765745@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	<4B8D6841.5040809@msapiro.net>	<20100303095726.37f59c8c@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	<4B8E83F6.5050701@msapiro.net>	<7f569b521003030920y6d09cab9od671ca8b174239d8@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8EA4AF.9010904@msapiro.net>
	<20100304132302.3aba6ef9@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
Message-ID: <4B8FC892.8010004@msapiro.net>

On 3/4/2010 4:23 AM, Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
> 
> I think I found what's the problem is : the script works now, but as
> I write my own archiver, it doesn't do the pipermail part (i.e.
> update mails in archive)... I thought that this code :
> 
> mlist = MailList.MailList(maillist, lock=False)
> msg = email.message_from_file(sys.stdin, Message.Message)
> f = StringIO(str(sys.stdin))
> h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(mlist) 
> h.processUnixMailbox(f)
> f.close()
> 
> did all, but after reading a bit of code, it doesn't exactly. It
> saves to .mbox file, right ?


No. It doesn't save to the .mbox file. If you look at the ArchiveMail()
method in Mailman/Archivers/Archiver.py. it first saves to the .mbox by
doing

        if mm_cfg.ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX in (1, 2):
            self.__archive_to_mbox(msg)

Then it either calls the external archiver or executes essentially the
above to archive the mail in the pipermail archive.

What you are missing is

h.close()

and that's why it doesn't work.


> I tried to find where it does the pipermail stuff, but it's a bit
> complicated [I'm not so at ease with Python].


Yes, the archiver is very convoluted because classes are subclassed and
methods overridden all over. Don't feel bad. I've been looking at it for
years and still only barely understand it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar  4 15:59:26 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 06:59:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <20100304134626.1c1db19a@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
References: <20100225152716.65d658c4@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	<PC195201002251708060671e1865d25@msapiro>	<20100226132029.7afa688f@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	<4B880FB1.4080804@msapiro.net>	<20100302124135.3a765745@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	<4B8D6841.5040809@msapiro.net>	<20100303095726.37f59c8c@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	<4B8E83F6.5050701@msapiro.net>	<7f569b521003030920y6d09cab9od671ca8b174239d8@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8EA4AF.9010904@msapiro.net>
	<20100304134626.1c1db19a@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
Message-ID: <4B8FCACE.7040504@msapiro.net>

On 3/4/2010 4:46 AM, Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
> 
> uho, found it !!
> mailman/bin/arch toto
> 
> I guess that's all :))


You may or may not be able to use bin/arch, but you can't use it in
conjunction with an external archiver because of list locking. If you
call bin/arch from your external archiver and wait for it to return, you
will have a deadlock, and if you don't wait, it won't run until after
your external archiver finishes.

I.e., an external archiver command like

'|/path/bin/arch $(listname)s;/path/myscript.py $(listname)s'

creates a deadlock, and one like

'|/path/bin/arch $(listname)s&/path/myscript.py $(listname)s'

doesn't work because myscript.py has to complete before bin/arch can
obtain the list lock.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  Thu Mar  4 16:10:56 2010
From: cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com (Cedric Jeanneret)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 16:10:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <4B8FC892.8010004@msapiro.net>
References: <20100225152716.65d658c4@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<PC195201002251708060671e1865d25@msapiro>
	<20100226132029.7afa688f@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<4B880FB1.4080804@msapiro.net>
	<20100302124135.3a765745@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<4B8D6841.5040809@msapiro.net>
	<20100303095726.37f59c8c@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<4B8E83F6.5050701@msapiro.net>
	<7f569b521003030920y6d09cab9od671ca8b174239d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8EA4AF.9010904@msapiro.net>
	<20100304132302.3aba6ef9@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<4B8FC892.8010004@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20100304161056.69742d33@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>

On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 06:49:54 -0800
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 3/4/2010 4:23 AM, Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
> > 
> > I think I found what's the problem is : the script works now, but as
> > I write my own archiver, it doesn't do the pipermail part (i.e.
> > update mails in archive)... I thought that this code :
> > 
> > mlist = MailList.MailList(maillist, lock=False)
> > msg = email.message_from_file(sys.stdin, Message.Message)
> > f = StringIO(str(sys.stdin))
> > h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(mlist) 
> > h.processUnixMailbox(f)
> > f.close()
> > 
> > did all, but after reading a bit of code, it doesn't exactly. It
> > saves to .mbox file, right ?
> 
> 
> No. It doesn't save to the .mbox file. If you look at the ArchiveMail()
> method in Mailman/Archivers/Archiver.py. it first saves to the .mbox by
> doing
> 
>         if mm_cfg.ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX in (1, 2):
>             self.__archive_to_mbox(msg)
> 
> Then it either calls the external archiver or executes essentially the
> above to archive the mail in the pipermail archive.
> 
> What you are missing is
> 
> h.close()
> 
> and that's why it doesn't work.
> 
> 
> > I tried to find where it does the pipermail stuff, but it's a bit
> > complicated [I'm not so at ease with Python].
> 
> 
> Yes, the archiver is very convoluted because classes are subclassed and
> methods overridden all over. Don't feel bad. I've been looking at it for
> years and still only barely understand it.
> 

hmmm, I use the h.close() a bit after (I catche its latest ID so that I ca build the direct URL for my indexer). But for now, I guess I'm done.
I've opened a bug (didn't figure where I could put my stuff) on launchpad: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/531942
It contains my scripts, and some informations on how to use them.

Indeed, "arch" script uses locks. I copied it, removed the lock stuff, and used this version. All work fine now.

I'm happy I could understand a bit (well... very little bit) how mailman works.

Thanks again !


-- 
C?dric Jeanneret                 |  System Administrator
021 619 10 32                    |  Camptocamp SA
cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  |  PSE-A / EPFL
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 197 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100304/3813ab96/attachment-0001.pgp>

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar  4 16:20:15 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 07:20:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <20100304161056.69742d33@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
References: <20100225152716.65d658c4@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	<PC195201002251708060671e1865d25@msapiro>	<20100226132029.7afa688f@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	<4B880FB1.4080804@msapiro.net>	<20100302124135.3a765745@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	<4B8D6841.5040809@msapiro.net>	<20100303095726.37f59c8c@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	<4B8E83F6.5050701@msapiro.net>	<7f569b521003030920y6d09cab9od671ca8b174239d8@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8EA4AF.9010904@msapiro.net>	<20100304132302.3aba6ef9@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>	<4B8FC892.8010004@msapiro.net>
	<20100304161056.69742d33@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
Message-ID: <4B8FCFAF.7020909@msapiro.net>

On 3/4/2010 7:10 AM, Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
> 
> hmmm, I use the h.close() a bit after (I catche its latest ID so that
> I ca build the direct URL for my indexer). But for now, I guess I'm
> done. I've opened a bug (didn't figure where I could put my stuff) on
> launchpad: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/531942 It contains
> my scripts, and some informations on how to use them.


I've seen your "bug" in the tracker. It's too bad Launchpad calls
everything a bug, but that's the right place.


> Indeed, "arch" script uses locks. I copied it, removed the lock
> stuff, and used this version. All work fine now.


I will have some comments after I look at this more. I think there is
redundant stuff, but I'll comment further after I look in detail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rberta at cla-net.org  Wed Mar  3 20:44:31 2010
From: rberta at cla-net.org (Richard Berta)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 11:44:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Limitations
Message-ID: <152E00EF42DF1545A27D092797DC2C35A734A5638B@EXVMBX003-6.exch003intermedia.net>

Hello,

Our Association currently uses your mailing list program (Mailman), and I'm not familiar with it's limitations ie how big of a mailing list we can have.

We're looking to start a new listserv with 3,000+ names, can the current system handle something of that size?  I could not locate this info on your website, so all apologies if it's up there...

I'd appreciate your help!

Thanks,

Richard Berta
Membership, Marketing & Communications Director
California Library Association
950 Glenn Drive, Suite 150
Folsom, CA 95630
916.233.3298 p
916.932.2209 f

Follow CLA on Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Folsom-CA/California-Library-Association/87228833792> and Twitter<http://twitter.com/callibassoc>!

From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Thu Mar  4 17:36:20 2010
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 10:36:20 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Limitations
In-Reply-To: <152E00EF42DF1545A27D092797DC2C35A734A5638B@EXVMBX003-6.exch003intermedia.net>
References: <152E00EF42DF1545A27D092797DC2C35A734A5638B@EXVMBX003-6.exch003intermedia.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.64.1003041032300.62777@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Wed, 3 Mar 2010, Richard Berta wrote:

> We're looking to start a new listserv

Listserv is not a synonym for mailing list. Rather, it is the trademarked 
name for a competing brand of mailing list management software. Please do 
not use "listserv" in connection with GNU Mailman.

> with 3,000+ names, can the current 
> system handle something of that size?

Mailman can easily handle a list of that size. If you are to have an 
issue, it will be with your computer's resources (memory, disk space, 
etc.) and/or Internet bandwidth.

-- Larry Stone
    lstone19 at stonejongleux.com

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Thu Mar  4 18:29:45 2010
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 10:29:45 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems regenerating archives from mbox files
Message-ID: <201003041729.o24HTjus018532@julie.lostwells.net>

I'm trying to rebuild the Pipermail archives for a list.  The archive
base runs from 1998 to present, about 25,000 mails/year.  The mbox
files are segmented by year.  What documentation there is for the
bin/arch utility appears to be in its --help printout and in the
Python code.  

Thus far, it appears that we've gotten a complete build, but have
problems with year 2002.  About 250 posts have their headers archived
properly, but without the message text.  That text is archived as 
"no subject" on the date arch was run.  I've done a quick check, just
to idenfity the problem period, and so see what's in the mbox files
for the affected posts.  The posts themselves look correct, and I 
haven't spotted (yet) something in common such as one MUA being used
for the original posts.  Anyway, research proceeds.  I'm using the elm
mailreader as a check and diagnostic program on the assumption that if
elm will read the mail, arch should be able to.  Also using vi to
examine the files.

Qhuestion number one, of course, is why is arch behaving this way?
This is affectingn one year's mbox file's builds.  That mbox (year
2002) was generated under Mailman, and I think it was an early 2.x rev
that was replaced over New Year's 2003.  

Question: Does the --wipe option delete all the archives, or does it
see what period the selected mbox covers?  I've assumed it's all
archives, so doing an incremental rebuild will require storing
anything previously build elsewhere?

Question: Is there a way to do an incremental rebuild and have it
replace already-built archives for a given time period?  Or is that a
manual rm job?

Other things being equal, my plan of attack right now is to set up 
an empty archive directory, do incremental builds in it, then move
each increment to a backup directory, clean out the build directory,
and do the next increment.  When all increments are built clean, I
can then move the backup to production.  If there's a better way,
I'm all ears.

Hank


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar  4 18:50:57 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 09:50:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems regenerating archives from mbox files
In-Reply-To: <201003041729.o24HTjus018532@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <PC1952010030409505705003aee61ed@msapiro>

Hank van Cleef wrote:
>
>Thus far, it appears that we've gotten a complete build, but have
>problems with year 2002.  About 250 posts have their headers archived
>properly, but without the message text.  That text is archived as 
>"no subject" on the date arch was run.  I've done a quick check, just
>to idenfity the problem period, and so see what's in the mbox files
>for the affected posts.


This is a symptom of unescaped From_ lines in the bodies of the
messages. Run bin/cleanarch against this .mbox


>Qhuestion number one, of course, is why is arch behaving this way?


See above


>This is affectingn one year's mbox file's builds.  That mbox (year
>2002) was generated under Mailman, and I think it was an early 2.x rev
>that was replaced over New Year's 2003.  
>
>Question: Does the --wipe option delete all the archives, or does it
>see what period the selected mbox covers?  I've assumed it's all
>archives, so doing an incremental rebuild will require storing
>anything previously build elsewhere?


--wipe removes the entire archive. To do an incremental build, you
specify --wipe on only the first bin/arch command.


>Question: Is there a way to do an incremental rebuild and have it
>replace already-built archives for a given time period?  Or is that a
>manual rm job?


It's a manual rm, but easy enough unless there are some to remove and
some to keep in the same volume (month).


>Other things being equal, my plan of attack right now is to set up 
>an empty archive directory, do incremental builds in it, then move
>each increment to a backup directory, clean out the build directory,
>and do the next increment.  When all increments are built clean, I
>can then move the backup to production.  If there's a better way,
>I'm all ears.


This is a bad idea. It will work, but if you have messages for the same
volume in two increments, there will be a conflict.

Just do bin/arch --wipe with the first increment and then bin/arch
without the --wipe for the succeeding increments. After each
increment, check and if the archive is OK, copy the entire archive to
the backup. If it's not OK, restore the previous backup and fix what's
wrong with that increment's .mbox.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From clay.beyer at nkadd.org  Thu Mar  4 21:25:16 2010
From: clay.beyer at nkadd.org (Beyer, Clay)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 15:25:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission Denied errors
Message-ID: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7AC0@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>

Hello Everyone, 

 

I am getting some permission denied errors that is causing about 2000
messages to appear in my mailbox, not sure what is going on. My
check_perms seems to run fine and fix all permissions, so looking for
any additional help. The error:

 

IOErro: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/var/lib/mailman/locks/gate_news.lock.NKADDWEB.4363.0'

 

Some additional info...

/var/lib/mailman/locks is a symlink to /var/lock/mailman which has
uid:gid of root:lists

 

Thanks for any help!

 

ClayB

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar  4 21:53:34 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 12:53:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission Denied errors
In-Reply-To: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7AC0@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201003041253340625f5336853@msapiro>

Beyer, Clay
>
>IOErro: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/var/lib/mailman/locks/gate_news.lock.NKADDWEB.4363.0'


Presumably this is from the emailed output of cron/gate_news which runs
every 5 minutes and mails you this message.

Was there a traceback. It would say exactly what was being attempted
that there was not permission for.

The problem is the user the cron runs as does not have permission to
create the file or create a hard link to it.

This could be permissions or SELinux or some other security policy
manager.


>Some additional info...
>
>/var/lib/mailman/locks is a symlink to /var/lock/mailman which has
>uid:gid of root:lists


and are the permissions on /var/lock/mailman drwxrwsr-w check_perms may
have trouble because it gets confused by symlinks, but presumably
they're OK or Mailman would be completely broken.

So I'm guessing it's the cron user or a security policy manager.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From clay.beyer at nkadd.org  Thu Mar  4 22:18:30 2010
From: clay.beyer at nkadd.org (Beyer, Clay)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 16:18:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission Denied errors
References: <PC195201003041253340625f5336853@msapiro>
Message-ID: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7AC3@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>

Beyer, Clay
>>
>>IOErro: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>>'/var/lib/mailman/locks/gate_news.lock.NKADDWEB.4363.0'


>Presumably this is from the emailed output of cron/gate_news which runs
>every 5 minutes and mails you this message.

>Was there a traceback. It would say exactly what was being attempted
>that there was not permission for.

>The problem is the user the cron runs as does not have permission to
>create the file or create a hard link to it.

>This could be permissions or SELinux or some other security policy
>manager.

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/var/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 284, in <module> main()
File "/var/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 259, in main
lock.lock(timeout=0.5)
File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 243, in lock
self.__write()
File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write fp =
open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')

IOError: [Error 13] Permission denied:
'/var/lib/mailman/locks/gate_news.lock.NKADDWEB.4363.0'

That is the traceback.

>Some additional info...
>
>/var/lib/mailman/locks is a symlink to /var/lock/mailman which has
>uid:gid of root:lists


>and are the permissions on /var/lock/mailman drwxrwsr-w check_perms may
>have trouble because it gets confused by symlinks, but presumably
>they're OK or Mailman would be completely broken.

>So I'm guessing it's the cron user or a security policy manager.

The permissions of /var/lock/mailman are as you stated.

How do I make the cron user (im too much of a newbie for this to be a
policy manager ;)) able to write to the directory, I'm not very fluent
messing with users, yet...

Thanks,
ClayB

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar  4 22:33:54 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 13:33:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission Denied errors
In-Reply-To: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7AC3@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>
Message-ID: <PC1952010030413335404373aee61ab@msapiro>

Beyer, Clay wrote:
>
>How do I make the cron user (im too much of a newbie for this to be a
>policy manager ;)) able to write to the directory, I'm not very fluent
>messing with users, yet...


Mailman's crontab should be installed so it either belongs to the
mailman user (which I think is 'list' in your case) or runs as the
mailman user. I.e. it should be in /var/spool/cron/list or if it is in
/etc/cron.d/ (e.g. /etc/cron.d/mailman), it should have a field in
between the 5 date/time fields and the command containing 'list'.

So where is Mailman's crontab?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rberta at cla-net.org  Thu Mar  4 20:31:56 2010
From: rberta at cla-net.org (Richard Berta)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 11:31:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Limitations
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSX.4.64.1003041032300.62777@albion.stonejongleux.com>
References: <152E00EF42DF1545A27D092797DC2C35A734A5638B@EXVMBX003-6.exch003intermedia.net>,
	<Pine.OSX.4.64.1003041032300.62777@albion.stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <152E00EF42DF1545A27D092797DC2C35A734A563B2@EXVMBX003-6.exch003intermedia.net>

Thank you, Larry, for the helpful information as well as a quick response!

Richard Berta
Membership, Marketing & Communications Director
California Library Association
950 Glenn Drive, Suite 150
Folsom, CA 95630
916.233.3298 p
916.932.2209 f

Follow CLA on Facebook and Twitter!
________________________________________
From: Larry Stone [lstone19 at stonejongleux.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:36 AM
To: Richard Berta
Cc: mailman-users at python.org; hollym at cla-net.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] List Limitations

On Wed, 3 Mar 2010, Richard Berta wrote:

> We're looking to start a new listserv

Listserv is not a synonym for mailing list. Rather, it is the trademarked
name for a competing brand of mailing list management software. Please do
not use "listserv" in connection with GNU Mailman.

> with 3,000+ names, can the current
> system handle something of that size?

Mailman can easily handle a list of that size. If you are to have an
issue, it will be with your computer's resources (memory, disk space,
etc.) and/or Internet bandwidth.

-- Larry Stone
    lstone19 at stonejongleux.com

From reyart_s at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  4 22:08:22 2010
From: reyart_s at hotmail.com (rey art)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 22:08:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman admin question
Message-ID: <SNT119-W420BD32F3771A109C35633EA390@phx.gbl>


Dear Sr.

I Have admin user of mine mailman list. I want to know if may be possible using web admin page, delete old post. I Want to delete or modify some old post bye web:

http://mylist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/my-list-name/

may be possible?? the only way is command line? for me, now it is no possible.

Thak you

 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
?Te gustar?a tener Hotmail en tu m?vil Movistar? ?Es gratis!
http://serviciosmoviles.es.msn.com/hotmail/movistar-particulares.aspx

From mitch at jewishpartisans.org  Thu Mar  4 18:01:13 2010
From: mitch at jewishpartisans.org (Mitch Braff)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 09:01:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with authorizing...
Message-ID: <AC0FD951-3813-4388-8F46-2B82A472A0DA@jewishpartisans.org>

Every time someone from our listserv sends an email to the list we  
have to authorize the request. What is the setting to let ALL users on  
the list send email without getting authorization form the admin?  
Can't find it.

Thank you.

-Mitch


Mitch Braff
Executive Director
Jewish Partisan Educational Foundation
2107 Van Ness Avenue
Suite 302
San Francisco, CA 94109
(tel) 415.563.2244
(fax) 415.563.2442
mitch at jewishpartisans.org
http://www.jewishpartisans.org
Blog - http://www.jewishpartisans.org/blog
Facebook - http://www.jewishpartisans.org/facebook






From rtanner at linfield.edu  Thu Mar  4 19:08:06 2010
From: rtanner at linfield.edu (Rob Tanner)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 10:08:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Waiting moderator requests not found
Message-ID: <C7B53707.3A526%rtanner@linfield.edu>

Hi,

I just upgraded from version 2.1.9 to 2.1.13 to hopefully solve a couple of
problems, and the upgrade solved all but one.  The moderator of one of the
lists gets email that tells him there are two requests pending, but when he
clicks on the link to go to the administrative database the message is
?There are no requests pending?.   Since this issue was also in 2.1.9, I?m
assuming it?s not a software bug but rather a configuration error of some
kind, but I have no idea what that might be.

Can anyone offer me ome useful advice?

Thanks,
Rob



Rob Tanner
UNIX Services Manager
Linfield College, McMinnville Oregon




From clay.beyer at nkadd.org  Thu Mar  4 22:42:40 2010
From: clay.beyer at nkadd.org (Beyer, Clay)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 16:42:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission Denied errors
References: <PC1952010030413335404373aee61ab@msapiro>
Message-ID: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7AC4@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>

-rw------- 1 mailman crontab  /var/spool/cron/crontabs/mailman
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root /etc/cron.d/maiman

Those are the two places you mentioned.

Thanks,
ClayB


Beyer, Clay wrote:
>
>How do I make the cron user (im too much of a newbie for this to be a
>policy manager ;)) able to write to the directory, I'm not very fluent
>messing with users, yet...


Mailman's crontab should be installed so it either belongs to the
mailman user (which I think is 'list' in your case) or runs as the
mailman user. I.e. it should be in /var/spool/cron/list or if it is in
/etc/cron.d/ (e.g. /etc/cron.d/mailman), it should have a field in
between the 5 date/time fields and the command containing 'list'.

So where is Mailman's crontab?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar  4 22:51:30 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 13:51:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman admin question
In-Reply-To: <SNT119-W420BD32F3771A109C35633EA390@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT119-W420BD32F3771A109C35633EA390@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4B902B62.60503@msapiro.net>

On 3/4/2010 1:08 PM, rey art wrote:
> 
> I Have admin user of mine mailman list. I want to know if may be
> possible using web admin page, delete old post. I Want to delete or
> modify some old post bye web:


There is no web facility for modifying messages in Mailman's archive.

It has to be done as in the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/2YA9> which
requires command line access to the server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar  4 22:57:23 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 13:57:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission Denied errors
In-Reply-To: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7AC4@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>
Message-ID: <PC1952010030413572302813aee60f0@msapiro>

Beyer, Claywrote:

>-rw------- 1 mailman crontab  /var/spool/cron/crontabs/mailman
>-rw-r--r-- 1 root root /etc/cron.d/maiman
>
>Those are the two places you mentioned.


So I'm just guessing, but I suspect that the crontab in
/etc/cron.d/mailman (?) is correct and is running successfully and the
one in /var/spool/cron/crontabs/mailman is causing the problems
because it runs as user 'mailman' and not as user 'list'.

I think your problem will be solved if you just

 rm /var/spool/cron/crontabs/mailman

but I can't say for sure without seeing the contents of both files and
also knowing what groups the 'mailman' user is in.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar  4 23:02:04 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 14:02:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Waiting moderator requests not found
In-Reply-To: <C7B53707.3A526%rtanner@linfield.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1952010030414020406253aee6235@msapiro>

Rob Tanner wrote:
>
>I just upgraded from version 2.1.9 to 2.1.13 to hopefully solve a couple of
>problems, and the upgrade solved all but one.  The moderator of one of the
>lists gets email that tells him there are two requests pending, but when he
>clicks on the link to go to the administrative database the message is
>"There are no requests pending".   Since this issue was also in 2.1.9, =
>I'm
>assuming it's not a software bug but rather a configuration error of some
>kind, but I have no idea what that might be.


The 2 moderator requests waiting message does not come from the mailman
installation you just upgraded. It comes from a different test, demo,
backup, whatever installation on the same or another server.

First look at the Received: headers of the message to see where it
originates. Then find the Mailman installation that's sending it and
remove the installation or the list or at least remove its crontab.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar  4 23:05:14 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 14:05:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with authorizing...
In-Reply-To: <AC0FD951-3813-4388-8F46-2B82A472A0DA@jewishpartisans.org>
Message-ID: <PC1952010030414051409213aee6367@msapiro>

Mitch Braff wrote:

>Every time someone from our listserv sends an email to the list we  
>have to authorize the request. What is the setting to let ALL users on  
>the list send email without getting authorization form the admin?  
>Can't find it.


If you really have a "listserv"[1], you've come to the wrong place.

If this is a Mailman list, what is the reason given for holding the
message?



[1] Please do not refer to Mailman lists as 'listservs'. Listserv(r) is
a registered trademark[2] owned by the developer of a particular email
list management product, and it shouldn't be used generically.

My personal interest in this is not to protect the Listserv(r)
trademark, but rather to avoid confusing Listserv(r) email list
management software with any other email list management software
including GNU Mailman of which I am a developer.

[2] <http://www.lsoft.com/corporate/trademark.asp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Mario at infokeep.com.br  Thu Mar  4 21:58:20 2010
From: Mario at infokeep.com.br (Infokeep - Mario Sergio)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 17:58:20 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] owner in a list
Message-ID: <57D96F60FED8DC4C9390C011ECF4EDA86183E5B6C2@keepmail.intranet.infokeep>

Hi list,

I have a mailman installed and its work fine. I have a question about the owner list.

I created a test at domain.com list and defined three owners:

user1 at domain.com
user2 at domain.com
otherlist at domain.com

This otherlist is in my mailman.

But, when I do some actions, like remove a member, or add a new member, the email is delivery only user1 and user2. The owner "otherlist" don't receive the email. This config is possible? Or I can't put a list like owner?

Regards.
MS

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar  5 00:00:24 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 15:00:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] owner in a list
In-Reply-To: <57D96F60FED8DC4C9390C011ECF4EDA86183E5B6C2@keepmail.intranet.infokeep>
Message-ID: <PC195201003041500240234c287e6c2@msapiro>

Infokeep - Mario Sergio wrote:
>
>I created a test at domain.com list and defined three owners:
>
>user1 at domain.com
>user2 at domain.com
>otherlist at domain.com
>
>This otherlist is in my mailman.
>
>But, when I do some actions, like remove a member, or add a new member, the email is delivery only user1 and user2. The owner "otherlist" don't receive the email. This config is possible? Or I can't put a list like owner?


It should work. There are several possible reasons why it isn't in your
case. The message could be held, rejected or discarded as a non-member
post by the 'otherlist'. The message could be held for 'implicit
destination' by 'otherlist'.

Check Mailman's vette log to see what's happening to the message to
'otherlist' and possibly adjust accept_these_nonmembers or
acceptable_aliases of 'otherlist' as needed.

Note that if you want anyone's mail to firstlist-owner to be delivered
to otherlist without being held, you will need to set
generic_nonmember_action to Accept for 'otherlist'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From clay.beyer at nkadd.org  Fri Mar  5 15:05:12 2010
From: clay.beyer at nkadd.org (Beyer, Clay)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 09:05:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission Denied errors
References: <PC1952010030413572302813aee60f0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7AC6@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:mark at msapiro.net]
> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 4:57 PM
> To: Beyer, Clay; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Permission Denied errors
> 
> Beyer, Claywrote:
> 
> >-rw------- 1 mailman crontab  /var/spool/cron/crontabs/mailman
> >-rw-r--r-- 1 root root /etc/cron.d/maiman
> >
> >Those are the two places you mentioned.
> 
> 
> So I'm just guessing, but I suspect that the crontab in
> /etc/cron.d/mailman (?) is correct and is running successfully and the
> one in /var/spool/cron/crontabs/mailman is causing the problems
> because it runs as user 'mailman' and not as user 'list'.
> 
> I think your problem will be solved if you just
> 
>  rm /var/spool/cron/crontabs/mailman
> 
> but I can't say for sure without seeing the contents of both files and
> also knowing what groups the 'mailman' user is in.

The mailman user belongs only to the group daemon

The contents of both files...

/etc/cron.d/mailman
# At 8AM every day, mail reminders to admins as to pending requests.
# They are less likely to ignore these reminders if they're mailed
# early in the morning, but of course, this is local time... ;)
0 8 * * * list [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs ] &&
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs
#
# At 9AM, send notifications to disabled members that are due to be
# reminded to re-enable their accounts.
0 9 * * * list [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled ] &&
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled
#
# Noon, mail digests for lists that do periodic as well as threshold
delivery.
0 12 * * * list [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests ] &&
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests
#
# 5 AM on the first of each month, mail out password reminders.
0 5 1 * * list [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds ] &&
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds
#
# Every 5 mins, try to gate news to mail.  You can comment this one out
# if you don't want to allow gating, or don't have any going on right
now,
# or want to exclusively use a callback strategy instead of polling.
# */5 * * * * list [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news ] &&
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news
#
# At 3:27am every night, regenerate the gzip'd archive file.  Only
# turn this on if the internal archiver is used and
# GZIP_ARCHIVE_TXT_FILES is false in mm_cfg.py
27 3 * * * list [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip ] &&
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip

/var/spool/cron/crontabs/mailman
# DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE - edit the master and reinstall.
# (crontab.in installed on Tue Feb 23 14:58:29 2010)
# (Cron version -- $Id: crontab.c,v 2.13 1994/01/17 03:20:37 vixie Exp
$)
# At 8AM every day, mail reminders to admins as to pending requests.
# They are less likely to ignore these reminders if they're mailed
# early in the morning, but of course, this is local time... ;)
0 8 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /var/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs
#
# At 9AM, send notifications to disabled members that are due to be
# reminded to re-enable their accounts.
0 9 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /var/lib/mailman/cron/disabled
#
# Noon, mail digests for lists that do periodic as well as threshhold
delivery.
0 12 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /var/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests
#
# 5 AM on the first of each month, mail out password reminders.
0 5 1 * * /usr/bin/python -S /var/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds
#
# Every 5 mins, try to gate news to mail.  You can comment this one out
# if you don't want to allow gating, or don't have any going on right
now,
# or want to exclusively use a callback strategy instead of polling.
0,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55 * * * * /usr/bin/python -S
/var/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news
#
# At 3:27am every night, regenerate the gzip'd archive file.  Only
# turn this on if the internal archiver is used and
# GZIP_ARCHIVE_TXT_FILES is false in mm_cfg.py
27 3 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /var/lib/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip
#
# At 4:30AM daily, cull old entries from the 'bad' and 'shunt' queues.
30 4 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /var/lib/mailman/cron/cull_bad_shunt

What I did was as you suggested, I did a rm
/var/spool/cron/crontabs/mailman

I also went into the /etc/cron.d/mailman file and uncommented the
gate_news line that was commented out. After about an hour, I have not
received an mail with error messages. Problem solved, unless of course,
something I did isn't correct.

Thanks for all your help Mark, really appreciated.

ClayB

> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar  5 16:33:05 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 07:33:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission Denied errors
In-Reply-To: <9A815880CDB22B468A53072B2347A006022B7AC6@nkaddexch.nkadd.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201003050733050468d5a6e159@msapiro>

Beyer, Clay wrote:
>
>The mailman user belongs only to the group daemon


And therefor can't successfully run Mailman's cron jobs because they
need to be run in the 'list' group.


>The contents of both files...
>
>/etc/cron.d/mailman
># At 8AM every day, mail reminders to admins as to pending requests.
># They are less likely to ignore these reminders if they're mailed
># early in the morning, but of course, this is local time... ;)
>0 8 * * * list [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs ] &&
>/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs


This is a 'system' crontab (/etc/cron.d/*) so the 6th field is the user
it runs as which in this case is 'list' which is correct.


[...]
># Every 5 mins, try to gate news to mail.  You can comment this one out
># if you don't want to allow gating, or don't have any going on right
>now,
># or want to exclusively use a callback strategy instead of polling.
># */5 * * * * list [ -x /usr/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news ] &&
>/usr/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news
[...]


>/var/spool/cron/crontabs/mailman
># DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE - edit the master and reinstall.
># (crontab.in installed on Tue Feb 23 14:58:29 2010)
># (Cron version -- $Id: crontab.c,v 2.13 1994/01/17 03:20:37 vixie Exp
>$)
># At 8AM every day, mail reminders to admins as to pending requests.
># They are less likely to ignore these reminders if they're mailed
># early in the morning, but of course, this is local time... ;)
>0 8 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /var/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs
[...]


This is the 'mailman' users crontab which runs as 'mailman'. I think
everything in this crontab will fail. You probably got other failure
emails such as one from checkdbs at 8:00 a.m., but they were
overwhelmed by the gate_news ones every 5 minutes and were unnoticed.


>What I did was as you suggested, I did a rm
>/var/spool/cron/crontabs/mailman


That is correct.


>I also went into the /etc/cron.d/mailman file and uncommented the
>gate_news line that was commented out. After about an hour, I have not
>received an mail with error messages. Problem solved, unless of course,
>something I did isn't correct.


Uncommenting gate_news in /etc/cron.d/mailman doesn't matter much.
Unless you have lists that actually use the Mailman/Usenet gateway to
retrieve messages from Usenet, this cron that runs every 5 minutes
doesn't do anything and isn't needed, but it doesn't cost much to
determine that it has nothing to do unless you have multiple lists
with multiple thousands of members (it has to instantiate every list
to determine that that list's 'gateway_to_mail' attribute is False),
and it does serve as a check every 5 minutes that every list's
persistent state file (config.pck) is still useable.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Sat Mar  6 18:07:55 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 19:07:55 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman bug or browser behaviour?
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1003061901200.2721@data.home>

Hi,

I've noticed an odd thing but am not sure if it's Mailman (2.1.11) or my 
browser (Lynx 2.8.7dev.9) which is at fault.

I've noticed that if I go to pending Moderator requests and approve a 
message from a particular user, if I leave the resulting page open which 
says "Click here to reload this page" and another message from that user 
comes through which requires approval, if I click to reload the page, the 
message is automatically approved and I'm told there are no pending 
requests.

I wondered if perhaps someone else was clearing the queue at the same 
time, but I've seen this several times now so I'm confident that it's 
either Mailman or my browser that's to blame here.

Cheers,
Geoff.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar  6 19:13:23 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 10:13:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman bug or browser behaviour?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1003061901200.2721@data.home>
Message-ID: <PC19520100306101323050087346d0b@msapiro>

Geoff Shang wrote:
>
>I've noticed that if I go to pending Moderator requests and approve a 
>message from a particular user, if I leave the resulting page open which 
>says "Click here to reload this page" and another message from that user 
>comes through which requires approval, if I click to reload the page, the 
>message is automatically approved and I'm told there are no pending 
>requests.


I think it is a bug, but I don't think the scenario is exactly as you
describe.

I think the second message from the same user arrives after you go to
the pending requests page but before you submit the approval.

Then you submit the approval from the summary page which is an approval
for all messages from that user, and the second message gets the same
action as the one you saw.

If this is the case, you can avoid the problem by clicking the number
next to the Subject:, or clicking the "view all messages from
<address>" link to get the message detailed view and approve the
message(s) from there.

The underlying problem is that the data posted from the summary page
says "apply the selected action to all messages from this user" rather
than "apply the selected action to all messages from this user that
were displayed on the page".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar  6 23:12:37 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 14:12:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman bug or browser behaviour?
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100306101323050087346d0b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC195201003061412370375ee4a50dc@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>The underlying problem is that the data posted from the summary page
>says "apply the selected action to all messages from this user" rather
>than "apply the selected action to all messages from this user that
>were displayed on the page".


I have reported this at
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/533468> and the fix is
committed at
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/revision/1227>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pokui at infocom.co.ug  Sun Mar  7 21:01:36 2010
From: pokui at infocom.co.ug (Patrick Okui)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 23:01:36 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fixing shunted messages
Message-ID: <5C6E3AC6-FBD2-4A88-92B7-A82930AB7906@infocom.co.ug>

Hi all,

I'm running the mailman that ships with opensuse 11.2 - running /usr/ 
lib/mailman/bin/version gives:

Using Mailman version: 2.1.11

I have lots of email to my mailing lists stuck in the shunt queue (and  
no, they aren't delivered). According to http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030704 
  and searches of the archives, it is to do with mailman not managing  
to run one of the processes on the email.

The tracebacks for these emails follows - could someone give me a clue  
on why the queue runner and the archiver claim the messages have no  
"get_type" ?

Running unshunt doesn't deliver the messages, it just logs more such  
tracebacks.

--
patrick

Mar 07 22:52:07 2010 (23634) SHUNTING:  
1267989214.492028+f0d7863592a47b2376a3ed8719376f68600b8709
Mar 07 22:52:07 2010 (23634) uncaught archiver exception at filepos: 0
Mar 07 22:52:07 2010 (23634) Uncaught runner exception: Message  
instance has no attribute 'get_type'
Mar 07 22:52:07 2010 (23634) Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in  
_oneloop
     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in  
_onefile
     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in  
_dispose
     mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in  
ArchiveMail
     h.processUnixMailbox(f)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 564, in  
processUnixMailbox
     m = mbox.next()
   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/mailbox.py", line 1955, in next
     return self.factory(_PartialFile(self.fp, start, stop))
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 89, in scrubber
     return mailbox.scrub(msg)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 109, in scrub
     return self._scrubber(self._mlist, msg)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 192, in  
process
     ctype = part.get_type(part.get_default_type())
AttributeError: Message instance has no attribute 'get_type'

Mar 07 22:52:07 2010 (23634) SHUNTING:  
1267990733.944869+e78b99c1915ce48434e1c8f2de4928bf18000659
Mar 07 22:52:07 2010 (23634) uncaught archiver exception at filepos: 0
Mar 07 22:52:07 2010 (23634) Uncaught runner exception: Message  
instance has no attribute 'get_type'
Mar 07 22:52:07 2010 (23634) Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in  
_oneloop
     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in  
_onefile
     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in  
_dispose
     mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in  
ArchiveMail
     h.processUnixMailbox(f)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 564, in  
processUnixMailbox
     m = mbox.next()
   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/mailbox.py", line 1955, in next
     return self.factory(_PartialFile(self.fp, start, stop))
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 89, in scrubber
     return mailbox.scrub(msg)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 109, in scrub
     return self._scrubber(self._mlist, msg)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 192, in  
process
     ctype = part.get_type(part.get_default_type())
AttributeError: Message instance has no attribute 'get_type'


From pokui at infocom.co.ug  Sun Mar  7 21:37:31 2010
From: pokui at infocom.co.ug (Patrick Okui)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 23:37:31 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fixing shunted messages
In-Reply-To: <5C6E3AC6-FBD2-4A88-92B7-A82930AB7906@infocom.co.ug>
References: <5C6E3AC6-FBD2-4A88-92B7-A82930AB7906@infocom.co.ug>
Message-ID: <04CDAA1D-D9F0-4D20-BAA7-82CC0DB5714D@infocom.co.ug>


On 7 Mar, 2010, at 11:01 PM, Patrick Okui wrote:

> AttributeError: Message instance has no attribute 'get_type'

hmm.. /usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib is empty -- that could do it no?

pop:/usr/lib/mailman # rpm -ql mailman | grep pythonlib
/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib
pop:/usr/lib/mailman #

I'm guessing this is an opensuse issue, unless someone here has  
figured out what they did with the pythonlib.

--
patrick

From lucio at sulweb.org  Sun Mar  7 17:19:18 2010
From: lucio at sulweb.org (Lucio Crusca)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 17:19:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange -owner behavior?
Message-ID: <201003071719.18655.lucio@sulweb.org>

Hello all,

I've a mailman setup on a Debian lenny system which runs a few mailing lists. 
All seems to work (more or less) except one that does not work at all 
("linux08", but, once upon a time, that one used to work). The MTA is postfix 
backed by a mysql database. The situation:

1. No message seems to go through the list "linux08"
2. Other lists mostly work, but I don't get the messages for the list owner, 
although my email is configured in the relevant field in the control panels
3. The owner address is hosted on the same server where the lists are
4. The same owner address is my usual email address that otherwise does work 
ok.
5. /var/log/mailman/smtp-failure reports continuos failures for every list 
owner, e.g.:


Mar 04 19:42:48 2010 (3140) All recipients refused: {'linux08-
owner at lists.virtual-bit.com': (550, '5.1.1 <linux08-owner at lists.virtual-
bit.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual mailbox 
table')}, msgid: <mailman.126.1267728167.3138.linux08 at lists.virtual-bit.com>
Mar 04 19:42:48 2010 (3140) delivery to linux08-owner at lists.virtual-bit.com 
failed with code 550: 5.1.1 <linux08-owner at lists.virtual-bit.com>: Recipient 
address rejected: User unknown in virtual mailbox table

I understand that mailman is trying to send messages to the address 

linux08-owner at lists.virtual-bit.com

but that address does not exist. The fact is that I do not want it to exist, 
because I've configured my usual email address in the list owner field of the 
list control panel. Why mailman sends to that address instead of mine?

Thanks in advance,
Lucio.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  8 01:04:48 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 16:04:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fixing shunted messages
In-Reply-To: <5C6E3AC6-FBD2-4A88-92B7-A82930AB7906@infocom.co.ug>
Message-ID: <PC195201003071604480687f5a35b5f@msapiro>

Patrick Okui wrote:
>
>I'm running the mailman that ships with opensuse 11.2 - running /usr/ 
>lib/mailman/bin/version gives:
>
>Using Mailman version: 2.1.11
>
>I have lots of email to my mailing lists stuck in the shunt queue (and  
>no, they aren't delivered). According to http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030704 
>  and searches of the archives, it is to do with mailman not managing  
>to run one of the processes on the email.
>
>The tracebacks for these emails follows - could someone give me a clue  
>on why the queue runner and the archiver claim the messages have no  
>"get_type" ?


Because Mailman 2.1.11 is incompatible with python 2.6 in the first
place. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/pYA9>. Also, Mailman
2.1.11 should be using the email 2.5.8 package from Mailman's
pythonlib directory and it doesn't appear to be doing that either.


>Running unshunt doesn't deliver the messages, it just logs more such  
>tracebacks.


Because all unshunt does is reque the message in the original queue.
Until you fix the underlying problem that causes the messages to be
shunted in the first place, processing will throw the same exception
and shunt the message again.



>
>Mar 07 22:52:07 2010 (23634) SHUNTING:  
>1267989214.492028+f0d7863592a47b2376a3ed8719376f68600b8709
>Mar 07 22:52:07 2010 (23634) uncaught archiver exception at filepos: 0
>Mar 07 22:52:07 2010 (23634) Uncaught runner exception: Message  
>instance has no attribute 'get_type'
>Mar 07 22:52:07 2010 (23634) Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 120, in  
>_oneloop
>     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 191, in  
>_onefile
>     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in  
>_dispose
>     mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in  
>ArchiveMail
>     h.processUnixMailbox(f)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 564, in  
>processUnixMailbox
>     m = mbox.next()
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/mailbox.py", line 1955, in next
>     return self.factory(_PartialFile(self.fp, start, stop))
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 89, in scrubber
>     return mailbox.scrub(msg)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 109, in scrub
>     return self._scrubber(self._mlist, msg)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 192, in  
>process
>     ctype = part.get_type(part.get_default_type())
>AttributeError: Message instance has no attribute 'get_type'

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  8 01:08:18 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 16:08:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fixing shunted messages
In-Reply-To: <04CDAA1D-D9F0-4D20-BAA7-82CC0DB5714D@infocom.co.ug>
Message-ID: <PC195201003071608180890aca550cc@msapiro>

Patrick Okui wrote:
>
>On 7 Mar, 2010, at 11:01 PM, Patrick Okui wrote:
>
>> AttributeError: Message instance has no attribute 'get_type'
>
>hmm.. /usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib is empty -- that could do it no?
>
>pop:/usr/lib/mailman # rpm -ql mailman | grep pythonlib
>/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib
>pop:/usr/lib/mailman #
>
>I'm guessing this is an opensuse issue, unless someone here has  
>figured out what they did with the pythonlib.


Yes, it does appear to be a packaging issue. As I said in my other
reply, with Mailman 2.1.11, not only do you need the email package in
pythonlib, you also can't use Python later than 2.5.x. The first
Mailman release compatible woth Python 2.6.x is Mailman 2.1.12.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  8 01:15:25 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 16:15:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange -owner behavior?
In-Reply-To: <201003071719.18655.lucio@sulweb.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201003071615250484aa11bcfd@msapiro>

Lucio Crusca wrote:
>
>I've a mailman setup on a Debian lenny system which runs a few mailing lists. 
>All seems to work (more or less) except one that does not work at all 
>("linux08", but, once upon a time, that one used to work). The MTA is postfix 
>backed by a mysql database. The situation:
>
>1. No message seems to go through the list "linux08"


What happens to those messages?


[...]
>I understand that mailman is trying to send messages to the address 
>
>linux08-owner at lists.virtual-bit.com
>
>but that address does not exist. The fact is that I do not want it to exist, 
>because I've configured my usual email address in the list owner field of the 
>list control panel. Why mailman sends to that address instead of mine?


Because that's the way Mailman works. Many owner notifications are sent
in two steps. Mailman creates the notice and sends it to the
LIST-owner address. It is then received there and resent to the actual
'owner' and 'moderator' addresses.

Thus, the the LIST-owner addresses MUST work and MUST deliver to
"|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman oener LIST".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mkawada at redhat.com  Mon Mar  8 05:39:30 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2010 13:39:30 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unclaimed action of mailman
Message-ID: <4B947F82.4000605@redhat.com>

Dear list,

I have a question about what mailman does when the following
log appears into /var/log/maillog.

---/var/log/maillog---
Feb 15 12:00:04 xxx postfix/pickup[6279]: 244811C805C: uid=41 from=<mailman>
Feb 15 12:00:04 xxx postfix/cleanup[21529]: 244811C805C:
message-id=<20100215030004.244811C805C at example.com>
Feb 15 12:00:04 xxx postfix/qmgr[20068]: 244811C805C:
from=<mailman at example.com>, size=1728, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Feb 15 12:00:04 xxx postfix/local[21232]: 244811C805C:
to=<mailman at example.com>, orig_to=<mailman>, relay=local, delay=0.17,
delays=0.05/0/0/0.12, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command:
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman)

At the moment the above messages logged, nothing is operated
(no mail send to mailman at example.com from mailman at example.com manually),
however, this message happens at the almost same time every noon
as follows.


---/var/log/mailman/vette---
Feb 15 12:00:04 2010 (2129) Mailman post from root at rexample.com held,
message-id=<20100215030004.244811C805C at example.com>: Post by non-member
to a members-only list
Feb 16 12:00:05 2010 (2129) Mailman post from root at example.com held,
message-id=<20100216030004.69E7A1C8064 at example.com>: Post by non-member
to a members-only list
Feb 17 12:00:04 2010 (2129) Mailman post from root at example.com held,
message-id=<20100217030004.50F4C1C806A at example.com>: Post by non-member
to a members-only list
Feb 18 12:00:05 2010 (2129) Mailman post from root at example.com held,
message-id=<20100218030004.723801C806A at example.com>: Post by non-member
to a members-only list

---</etc/cron.d/mailman>---
0 12 * * * mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests
0,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55 * * * * mailman
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news


---</etc/mailman/aliease>---
# STANZA START: mailman
# CREATED: Mon Jan 25 16:48:18 2010
mailman: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"

According to the time of the log, it seems that this is related to either
of the cron jobs specified in /etc/cron.d/mailman(senddigests of ate_news).
But I dont get what is exactly going on nor what kind of mail send to
the mailman at example.com(how can I verify it?).

Could anyone in this list provide comments/suggestions please?

-Environment
OS:RHEL5
postfix-2.3.3-2.1.el5_2
mailman-2.1.9-4.el5


Sincerely,

-- 
-------------------
Masaharu Kawada



From pokui at infocom.co.ug  Mon Mar  8 09:24:31 2010
From: pokui at infocom.co.ug (Patrick Okui)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 11:24:31 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fixing shunted messages
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003071608180890aca550cc@msapiro>
References: <PC195201003071608180890aca550cc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <9A2BD699-4904-46F4-B6F9-B0343C577E98@infocom.co.ug>


On 8 Mar, 2010, at 3:08 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Patrick Okui wrote:
>>
>> On 7 Mar, 2010, at 11:01 PM, Patrick Okui wrote:
>>
>>> AttributeError: Message instance has no attribute 'get_type'
>>
>> hmm.. /usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib is empty -- that could do it no?
>>
>> pop:/usr/lib/mailman # rpm -ql mailman | grep pythonlib
>> /usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib
>> pop:/usr/lib/mailman #
>>
>> I'm guessing this is an opensuse issue, unless someone here has
>> figured out what they did with the pythonlib.
>
>
> Yes, it does appear to be a packaging issue. As I said in my other
> reply, with Mailman 2.1.11, not only do you need the email package in
> pythonlib, you also can't use Python later than 2.5.x. The first
> Mailman release compatible woth Python 2.6.x is Mailman 2.1.12.


Thank you for your help, I was able to fix this by downloading a patch  
from SuSE that basically renames the relevant get_type etc functions  
to those that will work with python2.6. Downgrading to 2.4 broke a few  
other things so I'll leave it as is and plan for the upgrade to 2.1.13.

Thanks again,

Patrick.

From b19141 at anl.gov  Mon Mar  8 14:52:22 2010
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Mon,  8 Mar 2010 07:52:22 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fixing shunted messages
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net>'
	dated: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 16:08:18 -0800
Message-ID: <20100308135222.8647217517@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

Patrick Okui wrote:
>
>On 7 Mar, 2010, at 11:01 PM, Patrick Okui wrote:
>
>> AttributeError: Message instance has no attribute 'get_type'
>
>hmm.. /usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib is empty -- that could do it no?
>
>pop:/usr/lib/mailman # rpm -ql mailman | grep pythonlib
>/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib
>pop:/usr/lib/mailman #
>
>I'm guessing this is an opensuse issue, unless someone here has  
>figured out what they did with the pythonlib.

I am not familiar with the opensuse distribution packaging, but, as
has been discussed here in the past, the Debian/Ubuntu packaging
removes pythonlib, as there once was a problem where a customer had
a symbolic link to pythonlib, and the Debian fix (incorrect) was to
remove pythonlib.  That is one reason why I build my own package for
Mailman on Ubuntu.  From a debian/rules file:

     rmdir debian/$(package)/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 240, Room 5.B.8             Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  8 15:57:13 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 06:57:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unclaimed action of mailman
In-Reply-To: <4B947F82.4000605@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201003080657130843c2870258@msapiro>

Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>
>I have a question about what mailman does when the following
>log appears into /var/log/maillog.
>
>---/var/log/maillog---
>Feb 15 12:00:04 xxx postfix/pickup[6279]: 244811C805C: uid=41 from=<mailman>
>Feb 15 12:00:04 xxx postfix/cleanup[21529]: 244811C805C:
>message-id=<20100215030004.244811C805C at example.com>
>Feb 15 12:00:04 xxx postfix/qmgr[20068]: 244811C805C:
>from=<mailman at example.com>, size=1728, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>Feb 15 12:00:04 xxx postfix/local[21232]: 244811C805C:
>to=<mailman at example.com>, orig_to=<mailman>, relay=local, delay=0.17,
>delays=0.05/0/0/0.12, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command:
>/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman)


A post is delivered to the list named 'mailman'.


>At the moment the above messages logged, nothing is operated
>(no mail send to mailman at example.com from mailman at example.com manually),
>however, this message happens at the almost same time every noon
>as follows.
>
>
>---/var/log/mailman/vette---
>Feb 15 12:00:04 2010 (2129) Mailman post from root at rexample.com held,
>message-id=<20100215030004.244811C805C at example.com>: Post by non-member
>to a members-only list


And that post is held because it is from a non-list-member and the list
is configured to hold non-member posts.

Go to the admindb interface for the 'mailman' list and see what the
posts are.

They are undoubtedly notifications of a cron error from
cron/senddigests caused be the same issue as as discussed in the
thread at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-March/068962.html>.

If no one knows the admin or moderator password to log in to the
'mailman' admindb interface, see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/T4A9>.

Note that the 'mailman' list should be configured to accept non-member
posts for this and other reasons, or at least, the mailman crontab
should have a MAILTO= directive to direct error output to a person.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From phanh at canby.k12.or.us  Mon Mar  8 19:33:27 2010
From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 10:33:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member receives rejected message but message goes
	through
Message-ID: <5E22B5BB-6814-4E07-9AF0-D5D432771738@canby.k12.or.us>

Hello,

We have a moderated list with 325 members. The list is set to reject  
post from moderated members with a custom rejected message. A member  
is set to allow sending. Every time this person send message through  
the list, it kicks back a rejected message to the user but the message  
goes through. The reject message that the user receive is generic from  
Mailman.

You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has
been automatically rejected.  If you think that your messages are
being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner.

We double-check and the user doesn't have the mod option checked. The  
user is also enlisted in "List of non-member addresses whose postings  
should be automatically accepted."

Where can we find the file that keep the user mod setting? Has anyone  
experience this issue? Solution?

Thank you very much for your advice,

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  8 20:08:36 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 11:08:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member receives rejected message but message
	goesthrough
In-Reply-To: <5E22B5BB-6814-4E07-9AF0-D5D432771738@canby.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC1952010030811083606711579d203@msapiro>

Hung Phan wrote:
>
>We have a moderated list with 325 members. The list is set to reject  
>post from moderated members with a custom rejected message. A member  
>is set to allow sending. Every time this person send message through  
>the list, it kicks back a rejected message to the user but the message  
>goes through. The reject message that the user receive is generic from  
>Mailman.


Look in Mailman's vette log and find all the entries relevant to this
user's post. If after that, you still don't know what's happening,
post the vette log messages here,


>We double-check and the user doesn't have the mod option checked. The  
>user is also enlisted in "List of non-member addresses whose postings  
>should be automatically accepted."


If the user is a list member, moderated or not, putting the user's
address in any of *_these_nonmembers is irrelevant because those apply
only to addresses which aren't list members.


>Where can we find the file that keep the user mod setting? Has anyone  
>experience this issue? Solution?


The file is lists/LISTNAME/config.pck. You can look at it with
bin/dumpdb, but I guarantee that you won't find anything there that
contradicts what the list's admin Membership List shows you. The mod
bit is the 2^7 (128) bit in the user's value in the user_options
dictionary.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jd.henderson at duke.edu  Mon Mar  8 19:28:00 2010
From: jd.henderson at duke.edu (John D Henderson)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 13:28:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] odd situation with admin page timeout
Message-ID: <OFD2F9BDCC.1647D703-ON852576E0.00652F94-852576E0.006571BC@notes.duke.edu>

I am having an issue with the admin page of one of my mailing lists
timing out.

The :
http://servername/mailman/admin/serverinfo

mailing list is timing out when trying to display this page.  All my
other admin pages come up fine and clean.

Any direction you can point me into to correct this?
I am pulling my hair out on this.

Thanks.


????`??,??,????`??,??,????`?

JD Henderson
Sr. IT Analyst
CALGB Information Systems
Duke University - Durham, NC
jd.henderson at duke.edu
Office: (919) 668-9314
Fax: (919) 668-9320

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar  8 21:41:54 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 12:41:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] odd situation with admin page timeout
In-Reply-To: <OFD2F9BDCC.1647D703-ON852576E0.00652F94-852576E0.006571BC@notes.duke.edu>
Message-ID: <PC195201003081241540187e4a5aaf1@msapiro>

John D Henderson wrote:

>I am having an issue with the admin page of one of my mailing lists
>timing out.
>
>The :
>http://servername/mailman/admin/serverinfo
>
>mailing list is timing out when trying to display this page.  All my
>other admin pages come up fine and clean.


There is probably a stale lock for the list. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/noA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mkawada at redhat.com  Tue Mar  9 04:29:28 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 12:29:28 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unclaimed action of mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003080657130843c2870258@msapiro>
References: <PC195201003080657130843c2870258@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B95C098.8030709@redhat.com>

Mark-san,

Thank you very much for your response.

One thing to make sure, do you mean that a non-list-member is the 
mailman user?
And the list of the administrator is the mailman user as well?

Best Regards,

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>   
>> I have a question about what mailman does when the following
>> log appears into /var/log/maillog.
>>
>> ---/var/log/maillog---
>> Feb 15 12:00:04 xxx postfix/pickup[6279]: 244811C805C: uid=41 from=<mailman>
>> Feb 15 12:00:04 xxx postfix/cleanup[21529]: 244811C805C:
>> message-id=<20100215030004.244811C805C at example.com>
>> Feb 15 12:00:04 xxx postfix/qmgr[20068]: 244811C805C:
>> from=<mailman at example.com>, size=1728, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>> Feb 15 12:00:04 xxx postfix/local[21232]: 244811C805C:
>> to=<mailman at example.com>, orig_to=<mailman>, relay=local, delay=0.17,
>> delays=0.05/0/0/0.12, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command:
>> /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman)
>>     
>
>
> A post is delivered to the list named 'mailman'.
>
>
>   
>> At the moment the above messages logged, nothing is operated
>> (no mail send to mailman at example.com from mailman at example.com manually),
>> however, this message happens at the almost same time every noon
>> as follows.
>>
>>
>> ---/var/log/mailman/vette---
>> Feb 15 12:00:04 2010 (2129) Mailman post from root at rexample.com held,
>> message-id=<20100215030004.244811C805C at example.com>: Post by non-member
>> to a members-only list
>>     
>
>
> And that post is held because it is from a non-list-member and the list
> is configured to hold non-member posts.
>
> Go to the admindb interface for the 'mailman' list and see what the
> posts are.
>
> They are undoubtedly notifications of a cron error from
> cron/senddigests caused be the same issue as as discussed in the
> thread at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-March/068962.html>.
>
> If no one knows the admin or moderator password to log in to the
> 'mailman' admindb interface, see the FAQ at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/T4A9>.
>
> Note that the 'mailman' list should be configured to accept non-member
> posts for this and other reasons, or at least, the mailman crontab
> should have a MAILTO= directive to direct error output to a person.
>
>   



From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar  9 16:16:33 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 07:16:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unclaimed action of mailman
In-Reply-To: <4B95C098.8030709@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201003090716330250ee29f69b@msapiro>

Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>
>One thing to make sure, do you mean that a non-list-member is the 
>mailman user?


Yes and no. The sender of the post is not a member of the list. Mailman
looks at more than one thing when determining if the sender is a
member. In this case, what Mailman looks at is the From: header which
according to the vette log is root at example.com and also at the
envelope sender which according to the Postfix log is
mailman at example.com, so neither of those addresses are list members
and if either one was a member, the post would be handled as if from
that member.


>And the list of the administrator is the mailman user as well?


The list administrator is whatever address(es) is/are in the 'owner'
attribute of the list. I have no idea what, if any, these might be.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jason.kania at rogers.com  Tue Mar  9 07:05:21 2010
From: jason.kania at rogers.com (Jason Kania)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 22:05:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing URL used by main CGI executables
Message-ID: <678396.68271.qm@web88103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hello,

I have spent the better part of the evening searching for an answer but to no avail. The problem that I am having is in trying to set the URL for the main CGI executables after a server move.

If I navigate to the URL http://www.mydomain.com/mailman/listinfo, I get a complete list of lists.

However, if I navigate to http://list.mydomain.com/mailman/listinfo, the output indicates that there are no lists on the server. This domain is a virtual server in Apache.

All of the lists have the domain list.mydomain.com in them so they don't need to change. They can all be accessed with a URL starting with list.mydomain .com. Its only the CGI executables like admin, listinfo etc that are using incorrect information for the lists.

Unfortunately, I only see configuration that is intended for list management so I am not sure how to set the URL for the master list of lists.

Jason

From cwieland at uci.edu  Tue Mar  9 18:10:55 2010
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:10:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digests don't show unicode well
Message-ID: <8317238F-0736-44BE-8F0F-09B2CF981939@uci.edu>

Hello all,

I'm a little out of my realm here. I have a greek list that is  
experiencing the following issue:

some text in UTF-8 when it is in digest - or maybe any format.  Also,  
some web addresses are now in non-latin characters.  Any advice for  
how to deal with this problem?  I know when I sent the latest message  
in question it was readable from and on a wireless-connected iPod  
Touch, but on other occasions I've just seen question marks rather  
than the Greek letters that were sent. An example follows at the end.

> cannot read any
> unicode (UTF-8) text that appears in messages. This is
> almost certainly
> a problem in the way the listserver handles messages. In
> particular, it
> does not seem to respect the "Content-Type" tag in the
> message header,
> which is correctly set to utf-8, as you can see from the
> example below.
>
> So far the problem was "just" with being unable to read
> unicode text
> written by list contributors. Now, with greek sites
> beginning to use
> greek letters as part of their URLs (such as your skai.gr
> link below),
> the problem is expanding.
>
> Is there a way to make the listserver respect the
> charset="utf-8"
> setting?
>
>
>
>
> ----- Forwarded message from mgsa-l-request at uci.edu
> -----
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 08:41:25 -0800 (PST)
> From: Roland Moore <rolandmo at pacbell.net>
> Subject: [MGSA-L] Fwd: [??? ?? ???????? ?????? ??? ?????
> ????...
> To: "mgsa-l at uci.edu"
> <mgsa-l at uci.edu>
> Message-ID: <862206.6317.qm at web180311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> http://www.skai.gr/articles/news/ 
> views/???????????????????????????????/
>
> I was asked to forward the foregoing to the list, to
> represent another point of view. -Roland
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/ 
> 20100307/fb970285/attachment-0001.html

Con Wieland
Office of Information Technology
University of California at Irvine

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar  9 18:35:11 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:35:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing URL used by main CGI executables
In-Reply-To: <678396.68271.qm@web88103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201003090935110687de8029fa@msapiro>

Jason Kania wrote:
>
>If I navigate to the URL http://www.mydomain.com/mailman/listinfo, I get a complete list of lists.
>
>However, if I navigate to http://list.mydomain.com/mailman/listinfo, the output indicates that there are no lists on the server. This domain is a virtual server in Apache.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From aba at westmont.edu  Tue Mar  9 19:39:19 2010
From: aba at westmont.edu (Anne Anderson)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 10:39:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message rejected by admin got sent out after sender
	replied to rejection notice
Message-ID: <3ebf3e3f1003091039t7cf4696gf59abd9368cf1de2@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, Mailman experts!

Hello, Mailman experts!

We have a mystery going on here at Westmont College... the admin for one of
our lists rejected a message sent by a student, and when the student replied
in some way to the rejection notice, the message that was being held got
sent out.

This has happened twice now (with the same list) and I can't figure out how
it could happen.

Can anyone think of how this may have happened, and what I can do to make
sure it doesn't happen again?

We are running 2.1.9 on Linux SLES 10.

Thanks!

Anne
-- 
Anne Anderson
Web Application Developer / Database Manager
Information Technology
Westmont College

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar  9 21:17:39 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 12:17:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digests don't show unicode well
In-Reply-To: <8317238F-0736-44BE-8F0F-09B2CF981939@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC195201003091217390312aff350df@msapiro>

Con Wieland wrote:
>
>I'm a little out of my realm here. I have a greek list that is  
>experiencing the following issue:
>
>some text in UTF-8 when it is in digest - or maybe any format.  Also,  
>some web addresses are now in non-latin characters.  Any advice for  
>how to deal with this problem?  I know when I sent the latest message  
>in question it was readable from and on a wireless-connected iPod  
>Touch, but on other occasions I've just seen question marks rather  
>than the Greek letters that were sent. An example follows at the end.


The example at the end is from a 'plain' format digest. The messages in
the plain format digest, while they still show the original
Content-Type: header, are all coerced to the character set of the
list's preferred language which is us-ascii for English and that is
probably what the list's language is since there is currently no Greek
language support.


>> cannot read any
>> unicode (UTF-8) text that appears in messages. This is
>> almost certainly
>> a problem in the way the listserver handles messages. In
>> particular, it
>> does not seem to respect the "Content-Type" tag in the
>> message header,
>> which is correctly set to utf-8, as you can see from the
>> example below.


In the MIME format digest, each message is a separate MIME part, and
the Content-Type: header from the original message is replicated in
the message part's headers, so this should not be an issue with MIME
digests.


>> So far the problem was "just" with being unable to read
>> unicode text
>> written by list contributors. Now, with greek sites
>> beginning to use
>> greek letters as part of their URLs (such as your skai.gr
>> link below),
>> the problem is expanding.
>>
>> Is there a way to make the listserver respect the
>> charset="utf-8"
>> setting?


It does. It knows the message is utf-8 encoded and it knows the plain
format digest is us-ascii so it does the best it can, which isn't very
good in this case.

The user's should try subscribing to the MIME digest and see if that
helps. If it does, set the list's default digest format to MIME for
new subscribers.

Other options include changing the character set for English in Mailman
to utf-8, or creating a Greek i18n for Mailman with an appropriate
character set and setting the list's language to Greek.

You can do the former by putting

add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'utf-8', 'ltr')

in mm_cfg.py, but this will have possibly undesirable side effects such
as base64 encoding the plain digest, parts of the MIME digest, and
most mailman generated notices from the list. It might be better to
use 'iso-8859-1', but that won't help much with Greek, but you
probably don't want iso-8859-7 because this is a global setting.

If you (or maybe some students) want to do a Greek i18n, I'll help with
the mechanical details.


>> ----- Forwarded message from mgsa-l-request at uci.edu
>> -----
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 08:41:25 -0800 (PST)
>> From: Roland Moore <rolandmo at pacbell.net>
>> Subject: [MGSA-L] Fwd: [??? ?? ???????? ?????? ??? ?????
>> ????...
>> To: "mgsa-l at uci.edu"
>> <mgsa-l at uci.edu>
>> Message-ID: <862206.6317.qm at web180311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> http://www.skai.gr/articles/news/ 
>> views/???????????????????????????????/
>>
>> I was asked to forward the foregoing to the list, to
>> represent another point of view. -Roland
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/ 
>> 20100307/fb970285/attachment-0001.html



-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar  9 22:00:34 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 13:00:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message rejected by admin got sent out after
	senderreplied to rejection notice
In-Reply-To: <3ebf3e3f1003091039t7cf4696gf59abd9368cf1de2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201003091300340000fc0aa862@msapiro>

Anne Anderson wrote:
>
>We have a mystery going on here at Westmont College... the admin for one of
>our lists rejected a message sent by a student, and when the student replied
>in some way to the rejection notice, the message that was being held got
>sent out.
>
>This has happened twice now (with the same list) and I can't figure out how
>it could happen.
>
>Can anyone think of how this may have happened, and what I can do to make
>sure it doesn't happen again?


First, check Mailman's vette log to see what it says about these
messages. Is the Message-ID of the held message the same as the
message ultimately sent to the list? Does the log show the reject?

Second, assuming the list has archives, find the messages in the
archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox and see if the envelope
sender (the address in the From separator at the start of the message
headers) spoofs an authorized poster.

Note that if the original message was actually rejected by the admin,
that message is gone and can't be later delivered to the list. This
doesn't mean it couldn't be reposted, just that the actual message
that was rejected couldn't have also been delivered to the list.

Also, is it possible the admin is confused? I.e., the post was rejected
and the student replied to the rejection, which reply was delivered to
listname-owner, and the admin only thinks it went to the whole list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From phanh at canby.k12.or.us  Wed Mar 10 00:23:05 2010
From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 15:23:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member receives rejected message but message
	goesthrough
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010030811083606711579d203@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010030811083606711579d203@msapiro>
Message-ID: <2D980216-62A2-4E50-852E-84AC37F27ADD@canby.k12.or.us>

Thank you, Mark

Here is the vette log for the most recent 3 days

Mar 07 00:44:22 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
Mar 07 02:11:49 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
Mar 07 02:23:29 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
Mar 07 07:42:36 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
Mar 07 12:18:14 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
Mar 07 12:51:27 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
Mar 07 23:12:35 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
Mar 07 23:18:09 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
Mar 07 23:22:21 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
Mar 08 09:04:04 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
Mar 08 16:55:13 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
Mar 08 17:32:15 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
Mar 08 19:17:24 2010 (2371) CHS_parents post from no- 
replyvixyc at ccu.edu held, message-id=<B41139DF.CBEF8711 at ccu.edu>: Post  
by non-member to a members-only list
Mar 09 00:40:12 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
Mar 09 01:25:22 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
Mar 09 02:49:22 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
Mar 09 07:25:57 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
Mar 09 07:54:43 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a


Here is the post log for that particular post:
Mar 08 09:57:08 2010 (2373) post to csd_certified from calla at canby.k12.or.us 
, size=5515, message-id=<b8eadc911003080954r17a73e92iec9a1bb4f1cbc396 at mail.gmail.com 
 >, success




On Mar 8, 2010, at 11:08 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Hung Phan wrote:
>>
>> We have a moderated list with 325 members. The list is set to reject
>> post from moderated members with a custom rejected message. A member
>> is set to allow sending. Every time this person send message through
>> the list, it kicks back a rejected message to the user but the  
>> message
>> goes through. The reject message that the user receive is generic  
>> from
>> Mailman.
>
>
> Look in Mailman's vette log and find all the entries relevant to this
> user's post. If after that, you still don't know what's happening,
> post the vette log messages here,
>
>
>> We double-check and the user doesn't have the mod option checked. The
>> user is also enlisted in "List of non-member addresses whose postings
>> should be automatically accepted."
>
>
> If the user is a list member, moderated or not, putting the user's
> address in any of *_these_nonmembers is irrelevant because those apply
> only to addresses which aren't list members.
>
>
>> Where can we find the file that keep the user mod setting? Has anyone
>> experience this issue? Solution?
>
>
> The file is lists/LISTNAME/config.pck. You can look at it with
> bin/dumpdb, but I guarantee that you won't find anything there that
> contradicts what the list's admin Membership List shows you. The mod
> bit is the 2^7 (128) bit in the user's value in the user_options
> dictionary.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 10 01:42:19 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 16:42:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member receives rejected message but message
	goesthrough
In-Reply-To: <2D980216-62A2-4E50-852E-84AC37F27ADD@canby.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC195201003091642190000dc0d4213@msapiro>

Hung Phan wrote:
>
>Here is the vette log for the most recent 3 days
>
>Mar 07 00:44:22 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>Mar 07 02:11:49 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>Mar 07 02:23:29 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>Mar 07 07:42:36 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>Mar 07 12:18:14 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>Mar 07 12:51:27 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>Mar 07 23:12:35 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>Mar 07 23:18:09 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>Mar 07 23:22:21 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>Mar 08 09:04:04 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>Mar 08 16:55:13 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>Mar 08 17:32:15 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>Mar 08 19:17:24 2010 (2371) CHS_parents post from no- 
>replyvixyc at ccu.edu held, message-id=<B41139DF.CBEF8711 at ccu.edu>: Post  
>by non-member to a members-only list
>Mar 09 00:40:12 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>Mar 09 01:25:22 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>Mar 09 02:49:22 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>Mar 09 07:25:57 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>Mar 09 07:54:43 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>
>
>Here is the post log for that particular post:
>Mar 08 09:57:08 2010 (2373) post to csd_certified from calla at canby.k12.or.us 
>, size=5515, message-id=<b8eadc911003080954r17a73e92iec9a1bb4f1cbc396 at mail.gmail.com 
> >, success


So there was no 'reject' in the vette log, so the reject message the
poster received wasn't a reject of the post, at least not from this
list/installation.

A couple of other possibilities come to mind.

Possibly another list in another installation is a member of this list
and that list is rejecting the post.

Possibly this list has Auto-responder -> autorespond_postings set to
Yes, and autoresponse_postings_text contains the text the user
receives.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mkawada at redhat.com  Wed Mar 10 04:25:51 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 12:25:51 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unclaimed action of mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003090716330250ee29f69b@msapiro>
References: <PC195201003090716330250ee29f69b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B97113F.3050707@redhat.com>

Mark-san,

Thank you very much for your response.

I got better understanding on what the non-list-member is.

Best Regards,

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>   
>> One thing to make sure, do you mean that a non-list-member is the 
>> mailman user?
>>     
>
>
> Yes and no. The sender of the post is not a member of the list. Mailman
> looks at more than one thing when determining if the sender is a
> member. In this case, what Mailman looks at is the From: header which
> according to the vette log is root at example.com and also at the
> envelope sender which according to the Postfix log is
> mailman at example.com, so neither of those addresses are list members
> and if either one was a member, the post would be handled as if from
> that member.
>
>
>   
>> And the list of the administrator is the mailman user as well?
>>     
>
>
> The list administrator is whatever address(es) is/are in the 'owner'
> attribute of the list. I have no idea what, if any, these might be.
>
>   


From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Wed Mar 10 05:51:09 2010
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan Foerster)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 05:51:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <4B81A00F.7040702@msapiro.net>
References: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>
	<20100220182713.GF28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B804374.8070003@msapiro.net>
	<20100220205607.GG28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B8053D1.2070406@msapiro.net>
	<20100220221032.GI28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<20100221101520.GK28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B81A00F.7040702@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20100310045109.GA26770@mail.incertum.net>

* Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
> On 2/21/2010 2:15 AM, Stefan Foerster wrote:
> > 
> > Bad news. I was not able to reproduce the problem on a VM, using
> > backups from the day the problem first occured. And worse, this night,
> > while I slept a troubled, disturbed sleep, dreaming of SMTP dialogues,
> > the list roster changed (one new member)- and the problem is gone.
> 
> Since I couldn't understand what possibly caused the problem in the
> first place, I'm not totally surprised.

Good news (kinda) - another list on that server just started to slow
down, and this time, it is a very unimportant and small list (472
members, 466 of them have mail delivery enabled), so I can take all
the time in the world to try and debug this issue.

[instructions for list duplication /SMTP redirection]
> Unfortunately, I don't have any good ideas as to how to proceed from
> there, even if this does duplicate the problem, but Barry indicated he
> has a couple of ideas.

Well, unfortunately, this doesn't reproduce the problem. Neither does
stopping Mailman and copying every single file to another server.
However, restarting Mailman (something I don't do very often) does
_not_ solve the problem, either.

Do you think I can drop Barry a PM off-list and ask him for further
advice if he doesn't read this? I'm really interested in debugging
this, and as I said, this time I really don't care about the list
delivery being slow.


Stefan

From jason.kania at rogers.com  Wed Mar 10 15:28:36 2010
From: jason.kania at rogers.com (Jason Kania)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 06:28:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing URL used by main CGI executables
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003090935110687de8029fa@msapiro>
References: <PC195201003090935110687de8029fa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <152402.73891.qm@web88106.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I have seen that help page before and my configuration at the end of mm_cfg.py looks as follows:
...
from Defaults import *

##################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'list-mydomain-com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'list-mydomain-com'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST,DEFAULT_URL_HOST)
VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = On

Any other ideas?




________________________________
From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
To: Jason Kania <jason.kania at rogers.com>; mailman-users at python.org
Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 12:35:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Changing URL used by main CGI executables

Jason Kania wrote:
>
>If I navigate to the URL http://www.mydomain.com/mailman/listinfo, I get a complete list of lists.
>
>However, if I navigate to http://list.mydomain.com/mailman/listinfo, the output indicates that there are no lists on the server. This domain is a virtual server in Apache.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From manuel at kissoyan.com.ar  Wed Mar 10 03:35:55 2010
From: manuel at kissoyan.com.ar (Manuel Kissoyan)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 23:35:55 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] recreate the archive index file in a mailing list
Message-ID: <4B97058B.4030701@kissoyan.com.ar>

Hi guys,

I had a problem with the index.html file in a mailing list and i need to 
re-create it. Is there any command to do this?

Thanx in advance!

Manuel



From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 10 15:39:18 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 06:39:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing URL used by main CGI executables
In-Reply-To: <152402.73891.qm@web88106.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201003100639180015af821c61@msapiro>

Jason Kania wrote:

>I have seen that help page before and my configuration at the end of mm_cfg.py looks as follows:
>...
>from Defaults import *
>
>##################################################
># Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'list-mydomain-com'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'list-mydomain-com'
>VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST,DEFAULT_URL_HOST)
>VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = On
>
>Any other ideas?


I hope your actual settings for DEFAULT_*_HOST have dots (.) and not
hyphens (-).

Sorry. I should have referred you to the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9> as well.

If for some reason, you can't run fix_url to change the host name in
the list's web_page_url, set VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 10 15:44:48 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 06:44:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] recreate the archive index file in a mailing
	list
In-Reply-To: <4B97058B.4030701@kissoyan.com.ar>
Message-ID: <PC195201003100644480718af821f3e@msapiro>

Manuel Kissoyan wrote:
>
>I had a problem with the index.html file in a mailing list and i need to 
>re-create it. Is there any command to do this?


If the archive is otherwise intact and complete, the next archived post
to the list should recreate the index.html.

If the problem goes deeper than that, Mailman's

  bin/arch --wipe LISTNAME

will rebuild the archive as long as you have an intact
archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 10 16:11:28 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:11:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <20100310045109.GA26770@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <PC19520100310071128090640ac3666@msapiro>

Stefan Foerster wrote:

>* Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
>
>[instructions for list duplication /SMTP redirection]
>> Unfortunately, I don't have any good ideas as to how to proceed from
>> there, even if this does duplicate the problem, but Barry indicated he
>> has a couple of ideas.
>
>Well, unfortunately, this doesn't reproduce the problem. Neither does
>stopping Mailman and copying every single file to another server.
>However, restarting Mailman (something I don't do very often) does
>_not_ solve the problem, either.


Can you update/upgrade or simply reinstall Python on this server? The
delays you observed _must_ be occurring in the Python interpreter
itself, but this seems _impossible_ since the interpreter shouldn't be
affected by which list or a change in list membership.

I wonder if there could somehow be some interaction through the file
system.


>Do you think I can drop Barry a PM off-list and ask him for further
>advice if he doesn't read this? I'm really interested in debugging
>this, and as I said, this time I really don't care about the list
>delivery being slow.


Barry is often on the #mailman irc channel at freenode.net. It might be
best to ping him there.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mkawada at redhat.com  Thu Mar 11 07:07:34 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 15:07:34 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unclaimed action of mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003090716330250ee29f69b@msapiro>
References: <PC195201003090716330250ee29f69b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B9888A6.9040600@redhat.com>

Mark-san,

I'm very sorry to keep asking you on this, but could you please let
me know one more thing?

Since the mail is sent to mailman at example.com from mailman at example.com,
there should be that mail in any places such as /var/spool/mail/mailman,
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman.mbox/mailman.mbox and so on I 
guess.
But there is nether of them. How can I find that mail?

Sincerely,

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>   
>> One thing to make sure, do you mean that a non-list-member is the 
>> mailman user?
>>     
>
>
> Yes and no. The sender of the post is not a member of the list. Mailman
> looks at more than one thing when determining if the sender is a
> member. In this case, what Mailman looks at is the From: header which
> according to the vette log is root at example.com and also at the
> envelope sender which according to the Postfix log is
> mailman at example.com, so neither of those addresses are list members
> and if either one was a member, the post would be handled as if from
> that member.
>
>
>   
>> And the list of the administrator is the mailman user as well?
>>     
>
>
> The list administrator is whatever address(es) is/are in the 'owner'
> attribute of the list. I have no idea what, if any, these might be.
>
>   


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 11 15:37:03 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 06:37:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unclaimed action of mailman
In-Reply-To: <4B9888A6.9040600@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201003110637030578509aab45@msapiro>

Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>
>Since the mail is sent to mailman at example.com from mailman at example.com,
>there should be that mail in any places such as /var/spool/mail/mailman,


It is not in /var/spool/mail/mailman becaise the mailman list post
alias takes precedence and poosts it to the mailman list.



>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman.mbox/mailman.mbox and so on I 
>guess.


It is not in the mailman list's archives because it is held for
approval as a post from a non-member and is still waiting approval.


>But there is nether of them. How can I find that mail?


The messages should be visible in the admindb web interface for the
mailman list.

There should also be a large number of files in mailman's data/
directory with names like heldmsg-mailman-nnn.pck. Each of these
contains one held message. Also, depending on list settings, there may
be so many of these that the admindb CGI times out before it can
generate the summary page. In that case, you have to remove some, but
don't just rm them.

To view the contents of one of these, use Mailman's bin/dumpdb tool. To
remove one, use Mailman's bin/discard tool. To remove them all, see
the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/nIA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From nigel at headingley.org  Wed Mar 10 22:03:06 2010
From: nigel at headingley.org (nigel white)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:03:06 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] good web hosting company for Mailman?
Message-ID: <4B98090A.6000405@headingley.org>

My hosting company have just put a ceiling on the number of emails our 
domain can post in an hour = 100. This is hopeless for us, as one email 
sent to a list with 98 members = 98 emails, in their book. Consequently 
loads of my emails are being discarded by the server and my punters are 
cross.

Another drawback of my host, for Mailman admin, is that Mailman can only 
be installed via CPanel. Also SSH terminal access is not permitted. Its 
all very limiting.

Which hosts are good for Mailman? Who do you folks use? I have a 
preference for small UK companies, but any efficient and good value 
suggestions are welcome.

Best wishes
Nigel

-- 
Headingley Community web site
www.headingley.org

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Thu Mar 11 16:23:37 2010
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 15:23:37 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] good web hosting company for Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <4B98090A.6000405@headingley.org>
References: <4B98090A.6000405@headingley.org>
Message-ID: <20100311152337.GH2886@amyl.org.uk>

On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 09:03:06PM +0000, nigel white wrote:
> My hosting company have just put a ceiling on the number of emails our  
> domain can post in an hour = 100. This is hopeless for us, as one email  
> sent to a list with 98 members = 98 emails, in their book. Consequently  
> loads of my emails are being discarded by the server and my punters are  
> cross.

Move providers to someone who can sort your needs.

> Another drawback of my host, for Mailman admin, is that Mailman can only  
> be installed via CPanel. Also SSH terminal access is not permitted. Its  
> all very limiting.

Are you a (wannabe) sysadmin?

> Which hosts are good for Mailman? Who do you folks use? I have a  
> preference for small UK companies, but any efficient and good value  
> suggestions are welcome.

I run my own boxes, some hosted with Mythic Beasts (in Cambridge),
some elsewhere.

Mythic offer shell-accounts (which may be all you need), with
Mailman offerings as add-ons. See
    http://mythic-beasts.com/pricelist.html 
(they also have a referral scheme...).

(or you might find one of their VPSes sufficient for your needs;
although on a recent look, Bytemark offer more bits-for-your-bucks.)

<work_hat>I keep meaning to splinter-out and set-up a
mail-done-properly-but-cheaply-in-the-uk service</work_hat>

-- 
``Treason doth ne'er prosper / And what is the reason?
  If treason should prosper / None dare call it treason.''
  (Glorious-Revolution-era ditty)

From brian at emwd.com  Thu Mar 11 16:26:37 2010
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:26:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] good web hosting company for Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <4B98090A.6000405@headingley.org>
References: <4B98090A.6000405@headingley.org>
Message-ID: <00f001cac12f$3f4412d0$bdcc3870$@com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org [mailto:mailman-
> users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of nigel white
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:03 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] good web hosting company for Mailman?
> 
> My hosting company have just put a ceiling on the number of emails our
> domain can post in an hour = 100. This is hopeless for us, as one email
> sent to a list with 98 members = 98 emails, in their book. Consequently
> loads of my emails are being discarded by the server and my punters are
> cross.
> 
> Another drawback of my host, for Mailman admin, is that Mailman can
> only
> be installed via CPanel. Also SSH terminal access is not permitted. Its
> all very limiting.
> 
> Which hosts are good for Mailman? Who do you folks use? I have a
> preference for small UK companies, but any efficient and good value
> suggestions are welcome.
> 
> Best wishes
> Nigel
> 
> --
> Headingley Community web site
> www.headingley.org

Hi Nigel:

You can view a list of friendly mailman hosts at
http://wiki.list.org/display/COM/Mailman+hosting+services.

I will also invite you to take a look at our services at
http://mailmanhost.com. We impose no sending limits on any of our mailman
clients. Though we are an American company, we are seeing a large influx of
UK clients to our services. 

> Also SSH terminal access is not permitted. Its
> all very limiting.

The only way you will gain access to the backend of Mailman is to have root
access to the server and this can only be accomplished via a VPS or
dedicated server. Having ssh access on a shared hosting account will still
not allow you to access the scripts that are contained in the
mailmaninstallation/bin/ directory. However most end users of mailman do not
need access to these scripts. At least that has been our experience.

Feel free to contact me off list if you additional questions.

Brian
Mailmanhost.com



From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Thu Mar 11 17:09:23 2010
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 16:09:23 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sibling lists (and other lists as list-members)
Message-ID: <20100311160923.GI2886@amyl.org.uk>

This is almost certainly down to my ineptitude, with this "new"
feature, but I'm wondering if any of you folks can help.

I've got three (relevant) lists, all on the same machine/domain,
(Mailman 2.1.11; Python 2.5.2): 

    nowhere-crew 
    nowhere-leads 
    norg.bored

nowhere-crew(@lists.goingnowhere.org) has
    <nowhere-leads at lists.goingnowhere.org> 
and
    <norg.bored at lists.goingnowhere.org> 

as non-digest list-members (along with its own 'ordinary' (well, as
ordinary as euroburners get) list-members): I want both of those two
lists(members) to receive mails sent to nowhere-crew (that bit works).

What I don't want is for copies of the mail sent to nowhere-crew
to be sent (twice/thrice) where an email address is on either/both of
the other two lists.

It seems to me that putting:
    nowhere-leads at lists.goingnowhere.org
    norg.bored at lists.goingnowhere.org
in 
    regular_exclude_lists 

should work. That's my understanding of things from past-list posts,
and the little note on the wiki.

Except it's not quite working. I'm still getting the message twice
(thrice), when sent.

I'm a wee bit out of ideas, and can't work out what I've done wrong.

Nothing odd in the (abbreviated) headers, that I wouldn't have
expected, either:
    
(I've foo.example.org'd the Message-ID, but they are consistent)

    From nowhere-crew-bounces at lists.goingnowhere.org Thu Mar 11 15:24:18 2010
    To: Nowhere Crew Folks <nowhere-crew at lists.goingnowhere.org> 
    Envelope-to: adam at amyl.org.uk
    Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 15:23:06 -0000
    Subject: [nowhere-crew] March 15th deadline for newsletter
    Message-ID: <821BAAE0543DA54584B9B8BC6702DBD17C7830 at foo.example.org>
    List-Id: Nowhere Crew Folks <nowhere-crew.lists.goingnowhere.org>
    X-BeenThere: nowhere-crew at lists.goingnowhere.org

and

    From nowhere-leads-bounces at lists.goingnowhere.org Thu Mar 11 15:24:03 2010
    To: Nowhere Crew Folks <nowhere-crew at lists.goingnowhere.org>
    Envelope-to: adam at amyl.org.uk
    Message-ID: <821BAAE0543DA54584B9B8BC6702DBD17C7830 at foo.example.org>
    List-Id: Nowhere Leads' list <nowhere-leads.lists.goingnowhere.org>
    X-BeenThere: nowhere-crew at lists.goingnowhere.org
    X-BeenThere: nowhere-leads at lists.goingnowhere.org

I imagine I've made a very simple mistake, somewhere. Could someone
with more clue in this area (Sibling lists) help me out.

Thanks, as ever,

a

-- 
``We are not knocking down doors at four in the morning with people
  booted and suited in riot gear. Most of the removals occur around
  half-five, half-six, seven in the morning.''
    (Tony McNulty denies reports of `dawn raids' on asylum seekers)

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 11 17:41:02 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:41:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sibling lists (and other lists as list-members)
In-Reply-To: <20100311160923.GI2886@amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <PC195201003110841020265510c7d8b@msapiro>

Adam McGreggor wrote:
>
>I've got three (relevant) lists, all on the same machine/domain,
>(Mailman 2.1.11; Python 2.5.2): 
>
>    nowhere-crew 
>    nowhere-leads 
>    norg.bored
>
>nowhere-crew(@lists.goingnowhere.org) has
>    <nowhere-leads at lists.goingnowhere.org> 
>and
>    <norg.bored at lists.goingnowhere.org> 
>
>as non-digest list-members (along with its own 'ordinary' (well, as
>ordinary as euroburners get) list-members): I want both of those two
>lists(members) to receive mails sent to nowhere-crew (that bit works).
>
>What I don't want is for copies of the mail sent to nowhere-crew
>to be sent (twice/thrice) where an email address is on either/both of
>the other two lists.
>
>It seems to me that putting:
>    nowhere-leads at lists.goingnowhere.org
>    norg.bored at lists.goingnowhere.org
>in 
>    regular_exclude_lists 
>
>should work. That's my understanding of things from past-list posts,
>and the little note on the wiki.
>
>Except it's not quite working. I'm still getting the message twice
>(thrice), when sent.


Because that's not the way to do it. Putting, e.g.
nowhere-leads at lists.goingnowhere.org in regular_exclude_lists of
nowhere-crew has no effect unless nowhere-leads at lists.goingnowhere.org
is in a To: or Cc: header of the post to nowhere-crew. That is not the
case here.

To use sibling lists, what you want is to remove the two sublists as
members of nowhere-crew and instead add them to regular_include_lists.
This will then add the regular (non-digest) members of the sub-lists
to the recipient list of the post to nowhere-crew, as long as the
sub-lists are not addressed in To: or Cc: of the post.

The caveat here is only regular members of the sublists will receive
the post (if they aren't members of nowhere-crew). Digest members of
the sub-lists who aren't members of nowhere-crew will not get the post
at all.

Also, people who are members of only a sub-list will receive the post
from nowhere-crew, not from the list of which they are a member. This
may or may not be a concern.

The upside is no duplicates, and no worries about administrative
messages/password reminders from nowhere-crew being posted to the
sublists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Thu Mar 11 18:10:35 2010
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:10:35 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sibling lists (and other lists as list-members)
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003110841020265510c7d8b@msapiro>
References: <20100311160923.GI2886@amyl.org.uk>
	<PC195201003110841020265510c7d8b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20100311171035.GK2886@amyl.org.uk>

On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 08:41:02AM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Adam McGreggor wrote:
> >It seems to me that putting:
> >    nowhere-leads at lists.goingnowhere.org
> >    norg.bored at lists.goingnowhere.org
> >in 
> >    regular_exclude_lists 
> >
> >should work. That's my understanding of things from past-list posts,
> >and the little note on the wiki.
> >
> >Except it's not quite working. I'm still getting the message twice
> >(thrice), when sent.
> 
> Because that's not the way to do it. Putting, e.g.
> nowhere-leads at lists.goingnowhere.org in regular_exclude_lists of
> nowhere-crew has no effect unless nowhere-leads at lists.goingnowhere.org
> is in a To: or Cc: header of the post to nowhere-crew. That is not the
> case here.

We used to suffer from cross-posting: I think that might have been
where I was getting confused, too.

> To use sibling lists, what you want is to remove the two sublists as
> members of nowhere-crew and instead add them to regular_include_lists.
> This will then add the regular (non-digest) members of the sub-lists
> to the recipient list of the post to nowhere-crew, as long as the
> sub-lists are not addressed in To: or Cc: of the post.

Thanks for the explanation & advice. I've done that, now, so will see
what happens next time someone posts (I hate test messages sent to
live-lists (and am too lazy to whizz up a testing trio)).


> The caveat here is only regular members of the sublists will receive
> the post (if they aren't members of nowhere-crew). Digest members of
> the sub-lists who aren't members of nowhere-crew will not get the post
> at all.

Your http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/set_nodigest.py was very useful :)

-- 
"I only can properly enjoy carol services if I am having an
  illicit affair with someone in the congregation. Why is this?
  Perhaps because they are essentially pagan, not Christian, celebrations."
  (Alan Clark's 'Diaries')

From manuel at kissoyan.com.ar  Thu Mar 11 18:10:29 2010
From: manuel at kissoyan.com.ar (Manuel Kissoyan)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:10:29 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] recreate the archive index file in a mailing
 list
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003100644480718af821f3e@msapiro>
References: <PC195201003100644480718af821f3e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B992405.2070809@kissoyan.com.ar>

Thanx very much Mark!



On 10/03/2010 11:44 a.m., Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Manuel Kissoyan wrote:
>    
>> I had a problem with the index.html file in a mailing list and i need to
>> re-create it. Is there any command to do this?
>>      
>
> If the archive is otherwise intact and complete, the next archived post
> to the list should recreate the index.html.
>
> If the problem goes deeper than that, Mailman's
>
>    bin/arch --wipe LISTNAME
>
> will rebuild the archive as long as you have an intact
> archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file.
>
>    

From phanh at canby.k12.or.us  Thu Mar 11 20:16:06 2010
From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:16:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member receives rejected message but message
	goesthrough
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003091642190000dc0d4213@msapiro>
References: <PC195201003091642190000dc0d4213@msapiro>
Message-ID: <998F934D-E3C4-455E-B9EB-F59A120813BD@canby.k12.or.us>

> A couple of other possibilities come to mind.
>
> Possibly another list in another installation is a member of this list
> and that list is rejecting the post.
We don't utilize umbrella list. Is that what you thinking of?
>
> Possibly this list has Auto-responder -> autorespond_postings set to
> Yes, and autoresponse_postings_text contains the text the user
> receives.
The autorepond_postings is set to No and no text for  
autoreponse_postings



On Mar 9, 2010, at 4:42 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Hung Phan wrote:
>>
>> Here is the vette log for the most recent 3 days
>>
>> Mar 07 00:44:22 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>> Mar 07 02:11:49 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>> Mar 07 02:23:29 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>> Mar 07 07:42:36 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>> Mar 07 12:18:14 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>> Mar 07 12:51:27 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>> Mar 07 23:12:35 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>> Mar 07 23:18:09 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>> Mar 07 23:22:21 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>> Mar 08 09:04:04 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>> Mar 08 16:55:13 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>> Mar 08 17:32:15 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>> Mar 08 19:17:24 2010 (2371) CHS_parents post from no-
>> replyvixyc at ccu.edu held, message-id=<B41139DF.CBEF8711 at ccu.edu>: Post
>> by non-member to a members-only list
>> Mar 09 00:40:12 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>> Mar 09 01:25:22 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>> Mar 09 02:49:22 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>> Mar 09 07:25:57 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>> Mar 09 07:54:43 2010 (2371) Message discarded, msgid: n/a
>>
>>
>> Here is the post log for that particular post:
>> Mar 08 09:57:08 2010 (2373) post to csd_certified from calla at canby.k12.or.us
>> , size=5515, message-id=<b8eadc911003080954r17a73e92iec9a1bb4f1cbc396 at mail.gmail.com
>>> , success
>
>
> So there was no 'reject' in the vette log, so the reject message the
> poster received wasn't a reject of the post, at least not from this
> list/installation.
>
> A couple of other possibilities come to mind.
>
> Possibly another list in another installation is a member of this list
> and that list is rejecting the post.
>
> Possibly this list has Auto-responder -> autorespond_postings set to
> Yes, and autoresponse_postings_text contains the text the user
> receives.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 11 20:36:38 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:36:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member receives rejected message but message
	goesthrough
In-Reply-To: <998F934D-E3C4-455E-B9EB-F59A120813BD@canby.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC195201003111136380125bad9a1a3@msapiro>

Hung Phan wrote:
>>
>> Possibly another list in another installation is a member of this list
>> and that list is rejecting the post.
>We don't utilize umbrella list. Is that what you thinking of?


Yes and no. Unless you absolutely control your list membership, someone
could subscribe an address to your list which is actually, directly or
via an alias or forwarder, the posting address of another list.

Examine the rejection notice including all headers. from what
list/server does it originate? Look at Received: and X-BeenThere:
headers.

I won't say absolutely that it's not possible, but I don't think
Mailman can send a "rejected" notice without logging it in the vette
log, and if it does, it's a bug, and I'd like to know how it's
happening so I can fix it. I also don't think Mailman can 'reject' a
post and then have the same post (not a duplicate) accepted for the
list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mkawada at redhat.com  Fri Mar 12 06:46:31 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:46:31 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unclaimed action of mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003110637030578509aab45@msapiro>
References: <PC195201003110637030578509aab45@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B99D537.8000308@redhat.com>

Hello Mark-san,

Thank you very much for your response.

>The messages should be visible in the admindb web interface for the
>mailman list.

Are the messages you mention that emails which sent to mailman at example.com?
Could you please let me make sure that the admindb web interface is a page 
titled like "Mailman mailing list Administration General Options Section",
and the mail sent to mailman at example.com can be visible in somewhere on that
page. Is this correct? If so I would like to know exactly where that emails are. 
"Tend to pending moderator requests"?

>There should also be a large number of files in mailman's data/
>directory with names like heldmsg-mailman-nnn.pck. Each of these
>contains one held message. Also, depending on list settings, there may
>be so many of these that the admindb CGI times out before it can
>generate the summary page. In that case, you have to remove some, but
>don't just rm them.

I will verify if such files are existed in mailman's data/ directory.

On the other hand, is it possible to know/find where that emails are, if I
get the output of dumpdb command executing against lists/mailman/config.pck?


Best Regards,


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>   
>> Since the mail is sent to mailman at example.com from mailman at example.com,
>> there should be that mail in any places such as /var/spool/mail/mailman,
>>     
>
>
> It is not in /var/spool/mail/mailman becaise the mailman list post
> alias takes precedence and poosts it to the mailman list.
>
>
>
>   
>> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman.mbox/mailman.mbox and so on I 
>> guess.
>>     
>
>
> It is not in the mailman list's archives because it is held for
> approval as a post from a non-member and is still waiting approval.
>
>
>   
>> But there is nether of them. How can I find that mail?
>>     
>
>
> The messages should be visible in the admindb web interface for the
> mailman list.
>
> There should also be a large number of files in mailman's data/
> directory with names like heldmsg-mailman-nnn.pck. Each of these
> contains one held message. Also, depending on list settings, there may
> be so many of these that the admindb CGI times out before it can
> generate the summary page. In that case, you have to remove some, but
> don't just rm them.
>
> To view the contents of one of these, use Mailman's bin/dumpdb tool. To
> remove one, use Mailman's bin/discard tool. To remove them all, see
> the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/nIA9>.
>
>   

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 12 07:03:05 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 22:03:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unclaimed action of mailman
In-Reply-To: <4B99D537.8000308@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520100311220305050025dcfbf9@msapiro>

Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>
>>The messages should be visible in the admindb web interface for the
>>mailman list.
>
>Are the messages you mention that emails which sent to mailman at example.com?
>Could you please let me make sure that the admindb web interface is a page 
>titled like "Mailman mailing list Administration General Options Section",
>and the mail sent to mailman at example.com can be visible in somewhere on that
>page. Is this correct? If so I would like to know exactly where that emails are. 
>"Tend to pending moderator requests"?


The page titled "Mailman mailing list Administration General Options
Section" is part of the mailman list's admin (not admindb) interface.
The admindb interface is the page linked via the "Tend to pending
moderator requests" link on the admin pages.

The admin pages have URLs that look like
http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/mailman/...

The admindb interface is http://www.example.com/mailman/admindb/mailman


>>There should also be a large number of files in mailman's data/
>>directory with names like heldmsg-mailman-nnn.pck. Each of these
>>contains one held message. Also, depending on list settings, there may
>>be so many of these that the admindb CGI times out before it can
>>generate the summary page. In that case, you have to remove some, but
>>don't just rm them.
>
>I will verify if such files are existed in mailman's data/ directory.
>
>On the other hand, is it possible to know/find where that emails are, if I
>get the output of dumpdb command executing against lists/mailman/config.pck?


No. There is nothing in the config.pck that tells you anything about
held messages. Information about the messages is in
lists/mailman/request.pck, but this is the same information that will
be presented much more readably on the admindb page

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mkawada at redhat.com  Fri Mar 12 07:13:35 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 15:13:35 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unclaimed action of mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100311220305050025dcfbf9@msapiro>
References: <PC19520100311220305050025dcfbf9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B99DB8F.8040401@redhat.com>

Mark-san,

Thank you very much for your quick response.

I totally understood, and I should have been more careful about
what exactly the admindb is. Thanks a million!

Sincerely,

>   
>>> The messages should be visible in the admindb web interface for the
>>> mailman list.
>>>       
>> Are the messages you mention that emails which sent to mailman at example.com?
>> Could you please let me make sure that the admindb web interface is a page 
>> titled like "Mailman mailing list Administration General Options Section",
>> and the mail sent to mailman at example.com can be visible in somewhere on that
>> page. Is this correct? If so I would like to know exactly where that emails are. 
>> "Tend to pending moderator requests"?
>>     
>
>
> The page titled "Mailman mailing list Administration General Options
> Section" is part of the mailman list's admin (not admindb) interface.
> The admindb interface is the page linked via the "Tend to pending
> moderator requests" link on the admin pages.
>
> The admin pages have URLs that look like
> http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/mailman/...
>
> The admindb interface is http://www.example.com/mailman/admindb/mailman
>
>
>   
>>> There should also be a large number of files in mailman's data/
>>> directory with names like heldmsg-mailman-nnn.pck. Each of these
>>> contains one held message. Also, depending on list settings, there may
>>> be so many of these that the admindb CGI times out before it can
>>> generate the summary page. In that case, you have to remove some, but
>>> don't just rm them.
>>>       
>> I will verify if such files are existed in mailman's data/ directory.
>>
>> On the other hand, is it possible to know/find where that emails are, if I
>> get the output of dumpdb command executing against lists/mailman/config.pck?
>>     
>
>
> No. There is nothing in the config.pck that tells you anything about
> held messages. Information about the messages is in
> lists/mailman/request.pck, but this is the same information that will
> be presented much more readably on the admindb page
>
>   


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Fri Mar 12 14:22:16 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 15:22:16 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman chewing up resources
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1003121515340.2721@data.home>

Hello,

We run a VPS running Debian with Mailman 2.1.11 and Postfix.  Python is 
2.5.2.

Up until a couple of weeks ago, we were running a number of quite small 
mailing lists (max 200 members) with no problems.  But then we imported 
the subscriber list of a list that we'd moved from Yahoogroups that 
contained 800+ members, and that's when the trouble started.

This list not only has 800 or so members, but it's a fairly active list.

We also have quite a number of deferred messages from Yahoo in the queue, 
but that's a different story.  We've just implemented DKIM, hopefully that 
will help sort that one out.

The problem we're seeing is that if the list gets any way busy, the memory 
usage of the python process that runs Mailman skyrockets, dragging the 
system to a crawl.

We're a little clueless as to how to debug this further, so any help would 
be appreciated.

Geoff.


From yahoo at zone-page.com  Fri Mar 12 14:17:33 2010
From: yahoo at zone-page.com (Zone Page)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 08:17:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footers As Attachments
Message-ID: <4B9A3EED.6070505@zone-page.com>

I've been using Mailman for a long time for several small lists that I
maintain. There are two configuration issues that I still do not
understand. First, messages sent to participants have the footer as an
attachment. The only way I could get rid of the attachment was to delete
the footer text. The messages on this list have the footer, and it is
not showing up as an attachment, so I am doing something wrong.

The other question has to do with bounce processing. When I load a new
list of email addresses, how can I check for bad ones other than wait
until there are enough bounces within a period of time to unsubscribe?
It would be very helpful to be able to designate an email address to
which ALL bounces are sent. Can that be done?

Thanks!


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 12 17:01:38 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 08:01:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footers As Attachments
In-Reply-To: <4B9A3EED.6070505@zone-page.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201003120801380843e712d031@msapiro>

Zone Page wrote:

>I've been using Mailman for a long time for several small lists that I
>maintain. There are two configuration issues that I still do not
>understand. First, messages sent to participants have the footer as an
>attachment. The only way I could get rid of the attachment was to delete
>the footer text. The messages on this list have the footer, and it is
>not showing up as an attachment, so I am doing something wrong.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9>

The footers are not (usually) separate MIME parts on this list because
people tend to post plain text, and this list uses Mailman's content
filtering to remove non plain text parts from posts so the footers can
be added to the simple plain text message body.


>The other question has to do with bounce processing. When I load a new
>list of email addresses, how can I check for bad ones other than wait
>until there are enough bounces within a period of time to unsubscribe?
>It would be very helpful to be able to designate an email address to
>which ALL bounces are sent. Can that be done?


When you "load a new list of email addresses", invite the list rather
than subscribing it. Problem solved.

There already is an address to which all bounces are sent. It is
LISTNAME-bounces at ... If you have control over the MTA that delivers
this mail, you can deliver it anywhere you want. You can also set the
bounce processing threshold score to 1 to disable delivery and notify
the admin upon the first bounce.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 12 17:26:57 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 08:26:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman chewing up resources
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1003121515340.2721@data.home>
Message-ID: <PC19520100312082657012504afdc36@msapiro>

Geoff Shang wrote:
>
>The problem we're seeing is that if the list gets any way busy, the memory 
>usage of the python process that runs Mailman skyrockets, dragging the 
>system to a crawl.


Which Python process? mailmanctl should not be affected. Beyond that,
there are 8 qrunner processes. Are they all affected, or just one or
two?


>We're a little clueless as to how to debug this further, so any help would 
>be appreciated.


There is an issue that affects memory usage in the qrunners. They keep
a cache of list objects in memory to reduce disk IO. The cache is
supposed to free the space used by a list object when there are no
more references to that object, but it turns out there is a
self-reference in the list objects, so the cache simply grows until it
holds a copy of each list.

There are other issues in that large messages can cause the runners
that handle it to grow, and Python's memory management is such that
Python itself never gives freed memory back to the OS. Memory can be
freed within Python and it will be available for reuse within that
process, but it is not given back to the OS.

I recommend disabling the list cache within the qrunners. This was done
for the now defunct 2.2 branch, but has not been done on the 2.1
branch.

The attached Runner.patch.txt file contains a patch to do this. I
suggest you try the patch and see if that helps.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: Runner.patch.txt
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100312/24957034/attachment.txt>

From yahoo at zone-page.com  Fri Mar 12 18:34:01 2010
From: yahoo at zone-page.com (Zone Page)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 12:34:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footers As Attachments
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003120801380843e712d031@msapiro>
References: <PC195201003120801380843e712d031@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B9A7B09.1080704@zone-page.com>

On 3/12/2010 11:01 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Zone Page wrote:
>> I've been using Mailman for a long time for several small lists that I
>> maintain. There are two configuration issues that I still do not
>> understand. First, messages sent to participants have the footer as an
>> attachment. The only way I could get rid of the attachment was to delete
>> the footer text. The messages on this list have the footer, and it is
>> not showing up as an attachment, so I am doing something wrong.
> See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9>
>   

I already read that article, but it's over my head.

> The footers are not (usually) separate MIME parts on this list because
> people tend to post plain text, and this list uses Mailman's content
> filtering to remove non plain text parts from posts so the footers can
> be added to the simple plain text message body.

Is that Option 2?


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 12 19:07:39 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 10:07:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footers As Attachments
In-Reply-To: <4B9A7B09.1080704@zone-page.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201003121007390014eb6be5f5@msapiro>

Zone Page wrote:

>On 3/12/2010 11:01 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> The footers are not (usually) separate MIME parts on this list because
>> people tend to post plain text, and this list uses Mailman's content
>> filtering to remove non plain text parts from posts so the footers can
>> be added to the simple plain text message body.
>
>Is that Option 2?


Yes, that's option 2.

Note, if your list is an announcement type of list, and you want to
post HTML (rich text), you can always remove the list's msg_footer and
just include the equivalent at the bottom of your posts.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From yahoo at zone-page.com  Fri Mar 12 20:14:41 2010
From: yahoo at zone-page.com (Zone Page)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:14:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footers As Attachments
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003121007390014eb6be5f5@msapiro>
References: <PC195201003121007390014eb6be5f5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B9A92A1.8060204@zone-page.com>

On 3/12/2010 1:07 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Zone Page wrote:
>   
>> On 3/12/2010 11:01 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> The footers are not (usually) separate MIME parts on this list because
>>> people tend to post plain text, and this list uses Mailman's content
>>> filtering to remove non plain text parts from posts so the footers can
>>> be added to the simple plain text message body.
>>>       
>> Is that Option 2?
>>     
> Yes, that's option 2.
>
> Note, if your list is an announcement type of list, and you want to
> post HTML (rich text), you can always remove the list's msg_footer and
> just include the equivalent at the bottom of your posts.
>   

The page says, "Choosing option #2 from the above list is quite a bit
more difficult to configure than you may think it is. Even if you can
get the system to do this, the result would most likely be quite a bit
more drastic than you think." So, how do I configure my list this way?


From dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net  Fri Mar 12 20:02:17 2010
From: dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net (Dennis Carr)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 11:02:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not departing
Message-ID: <20100312110217.79a46f01.dennisthetiger@chez-vrolet.net>

I have a number of messages stuck between qfiles/retry and qfiles/out,
and for about a week or so, messages have been departing very
sporadically.

Checking logs/error, I noticed a glitch in parser.py, which I stuck up
on a pastebin, here:

http://pastebin.ca/1835827

I'm running Debian Etch (old stable) on the server, current version of
mailman from the repository (2.1.9-7), kernel 2.6.18-5-686.

Any idea what's going on per the pastebin?

-Dennis Carr

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 12 20:51:31 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 11:51:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footers As Attachments
In-Reply-To: <4B9A92A1.8060204@zone-page.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201003121151310654ff23582d@msapiro>

Zone Page wrote:
>
>The page says, "Choosing option #2 from the above list is quite a bit
>more difficult to configure than you may think it is. Even if you can
>get the system to do this, the result would most likely be quite a bit
>more drastic than you think." So, how do I configure my list this way?

Here's one suggestion.

filter_content: Yes

filter_mime_types: empty

pass_mime_types:
  multipart
  message/rfc822
  text/plain
  text/html

filter_filename_extensions: default (it doesn't matter much with the
   above in pass_mime_types)

pass_filename_extensions: empty

collapse_alternatives: Yes

convert_html_to_plaintext: Yes

This will ensure only plain text is delivered to the list and will
accept essentially all text/plain parts of a message and in addition
will accept HTML that is not a multipart/alternative sub-part and use
an external command (defaults to lynx) to convert the HTML to plain
text.

It will break or remove signatures from some signed mail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 12 21:01:58 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 12:01:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not departing
In-Reply-To: <20100312110217.79a46f01.dennisthetiger@chez-vrolet.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201003121201580576ff2357fa@msapiro>

Dennis Carr wrote:

>I have a number of messages stuck between qfiles/retry and qfiles/out,
>and for about a week or so, messages have been departing very
>sporadically.
>
>Checking logs/error, I noticed a glitch in parser.py, which I stuck up
>on a pastebin, here:
>
>http://pastebin.ca/1835827


That has nothing to do with outgoing mail in out/ or retry/. It is a
message that had defective MIME structure as indicated. It was
possibly truncated somewhere along the delivery path to Mailman, but
more likely was just spam with a defective MIME structure. It was
queued in qfiles/in/ by the MTA and the exception occurred when
IncomingRunner picked it up from the in/ queue and tried to parse it
into an email.Message.Message instance for processing.

As it says, that message was ignored.


As far as the retries and slow delivery are concerned, look at
Mailman's smtp-failure log for the reason the messages are queued for
retry.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net  Fri Mar 12 22:37:32 2010
From: dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net (Dennis Carr)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 13:37:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not departing
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003121201580576ff2357fa@msapiro>
References: <20100312110217.79a46f01.dennisthetiger@chez-vrolet.net>
	<PC195201003121201580576ff2357fa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20100312133732.99f9e742.dennisthetiger@chez-vrolet.net>

On Fri, 12 Mar 2010 12:01:58 -0800
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Dennis Carr wrote:
> 
> >I have a number of messages stuck between qfiles/retry and
> >qfiles/out, and for about a week or so, messages have been departing
> >very sporadically.
> >
> >Checking logs/error, I noticed a glitch in parser.py, which I stuck
> >up on a pastebin, here:
> >
> >http://pastebin.ca/1835827
> 
> 
> That has nothing to do with outgoing mail in out/ or retry/. It is a
> message that had defective MIME structure as indicated. It was
> possibly truncated somewhere along the delivery path to Mailman, but
> more likely was just spam with a defective MIME structure. It was
> queued in qfiles/in/ by the MTA and the exception occurred when
> IncomingRunner picked it up from the in/ queue and tried to parse it
> into an email.Message.Message instance for processing.
> 
> As it says, that message was ignored.
> 
> 
> As far as the retries and slow delivery are concerned, look at
> Mailman's smtp-failure log for the reason the messages are queued for
> retry.

OK, here's what I found:

Mar 12 10:08:11 2010 (31200) delivery to xelloss at slayers.org failed
with code 45 0: 4.1.2 <xxx at slayers.org>: Recipient address
rejected: Domain not found

I've found similar messages with xxx at fanfic.net at the end.  Certainly
mailman should be running these as bounces?

Moreover, I should note that many of the users are not getting
messages, and in logs/smtp, I see messages such as this:

Mar 12 13:32:35 2010 (31200)
<905831dc1003100904u3451a9b7kbc405d64f96d9b39 at mail.gmail.com> smtp to
ffml for 2 recips, completed in 60.504 seconds

(Note that this is normally right around 1,000 recips.)

Semi-related message from logs/post:

Mar 12 13:35:37 2010 (31200) post to ffml from
dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net, size=1444,
message-id=<Pine.LNX.4.64.1003121020550.31541 at kimba.chez-vrolet.net>, 2
failures

In short, what's up, and how to fix this?

-Dennis

From b19141 at anl.gov  Fri Mar 12 23:03:52 2010
From: b19141 at anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 16:03:52 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not departing
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Dennis Carr <dennisthetiger@chez-vrolet.net>'
	dated: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 13:37:32 -0800
Message-ID: <20100312220353.0483717517@britaine.cis.anl.gov>

>OK, here's what I found:
>
>Mar 12 10:08:11 2010 (31200) delivery to xelloss at slayers.org failed
>with code 45 0: 4.1.2 <xxx at slayers.org>: Recipient address
>rejected: Domain not found
>
>I've found similar messages with xxx at fanfic.net at the end.  Certainly
>mailman should be running these as bounces?

Note that the SMTP error code is "450", which is a retryable error;
it is not a permanent error.  The domain

     slayers.org

may be one that does not exist, or it may be that at the time the mail
is queued, the relevant name servers are offline or misconfigured
so that the MTA cannot tell if the domain really exists.  The MTA and
Mailman cannot be sure.  In this case, the MTA will keep trying for the
"queue length" time in its configuration file.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 240, Room 5.B.8             Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 12 23:10:37 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:10:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not departing
In-Reply-To: <20100312133732.99f9e742.dennisthetiger@chez-vrolet.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201003121410370639c0ff3fe4@msapiro>

Dennis Carr wrote:
>
>OK, here's what I found:
>
>Mar 12 10:08:11 2010 (31200) delivery to xelloss at slayers.org failed
>with code 45 0: 4.1.2 <xxx at slayers.org>: Recipient address
>rejected: Domain not found
>
>I've found similar messages with xxx at fanfic.net at the end.  Certainly
>mailman should be running these as bounces?


It would if your MTA returned a 5xx status instead of a 450.


>Moreover, I should note that many of the users are not getting
>messages, and in logs/smtp, I see messages such as this:
>
>Mar 12 13:32:35 2010 (31200)
><905831dc1003100904u3451a9b7kbc405d64f96d9b39 at mail.gmail.com> smtp to
>ffml for 2 recips, completed in 60.504 seconds
>
>(Note that this is normally right around 1,000 recips.)
>
>Semi-related message from logs/post:
>
>Mar 12 13:35:37 2010 (31200) post to ffml from
>dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net, size=1444,
>message-id=<Pine.LNX.4.64.1003121020550.31541 at kimba.chez-vrolet.net>, 2
>failures
>
>In short, what's up, and how to fix this?


If this started, what changed in your MTA configuration? Or your DNS?

What is apparently happening is you are getting failurs and the message
is queued for retry and there may be a couple of addresses that get
accepted.

I suspect a DNS issue with the MTA's lookups of the recipient domains.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From wynand at vodamail.co.za  Fri Mar 12 20:31:08 2010
From: wynand at vodamail.co.za (Wynand Louw)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 21:31:08 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail to all users
Message-ID: <008e01cac21a$9167d600$b4378200$@co.za>

Hi

 

I am fairly new to mailman, and have a weekly newsletter that I send out.

 

How can I know if the mail is send to all the users, because I have my one
email address on the list but does not receive the mail that I send to the
list.

 

Thanks

 

Wynand Louw


From mrb at ciclops.org  Fri Mar 12 19:20:11 2010
From: mrb at ciclops.org (Michael Belanger)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 11:20:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 3rd party email unsubscribe request fails
Message-ID: <1268418011.22055.146.camel@localhost>

Folks,
I have recently set up Mailman version 2.1.13.  Everything works as
expected except for the email form I use on my website to unsubscribe
folks.  

It takes and email address submission and composes an email to 
listname-request at listserv.mydomain.org   with body of:

unsubscribe address=submitted at email.adr
end

apache gets an email response from mailman as follows:
...


The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your
original message.

- Results:
    Usage:
    
    unsubscribe [password] [address=<address>]
        Unsubscribe from the mailing list.  If given, your password must
match
        your current password.  If omitted, a confirmation email will be
sent
        to the unsubscribing address. If you wish to unsubscribe an
address
        other than the address you sent this request from, you may
specify
        `address=<address>' (no brackets around the email address, and
no
        quotes!)


- Unprocessed:
    unsubscribe address=example at yahoo.com
    end

- Done.


I have a similar form for subscribe requests that works as expected.  my
webserver sends the requests as apache at mydomain.org.  It is not an
admin, moderator, or list member of the list I am trying to modify.  

Is there something wrong with apache at mydomain.org sending the
unsubscribe request?  As I understand it, if the request is sent w/o
password, the user must confirm the request -- which is exactly what I
want.  

Regards,




-- 
                              -- Michael
____________________________________________________
Y! darthwonka               
                                      --- - - __o    
                                       --   _ \<,_   
                                           (_)/ (_)  

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
                                               - Thomas A. Edison


From webmaster at artabase.net  Sat Mar 13 02:24:14 2010
From: webmaster at artabase.net (Artabase)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 12:24:14 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remove / Strip Sender Signature Question
Message-ID: <4B9AE93E.4010001@artabase.net>

Hi All

I searched archives and checked faq but couldn't find this, apologies if
I'm keyword 'tarded this morning.

Is it possible to strip the Sender Signature?

Our lists are subscribed to some other lists, and we're having problems
with members unsubscribing us from those lists instead of unsubbing from
ours.

Thanks in advance, any help appreciated,

moose

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 13 04:15:10 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:15:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail to all users
In-Reply-To: <008e01cac21a$9167d600$b4378200$@co.za>
Message-ID: <PC1952010031219151001542748b124@msapiro>


Wynand Louw wrote:
>
>How can I know if the mail is send to all the users, because I have my one
>email address on the list but does not receive the mail that I send to the
>list.


Unless you have "not metoo" checked in your entry in the admin
Membership Management... -> Membership List pages, you should receive
your own posts to the list.

The answer to your question though is in general, you can't.

If you have enabled bounce processing and you have sufficient access,
you can see if there are bounces recorded in Mailman's bounce log, and
you can check the outgoing MTA's log to see if the messages were
successfully delivered to the recipient's incoming mail servers, but
ifen that is no guarantee that the message was delivered to the
recipient's mailbox.

If you have an address subscribed to the list that should receive the
mail, and it does, you can be reasonably confident that the mail was
sent to all eligible recipients, but you can't know that it was
received by all.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 13 04:28:38 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:28:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 3rd party email unsubscribe request fails
In-Reply-To: <1268418011.22055.146.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC1952010031219283801709aebae90@msapiro>

Michael Belanger wrote:

>I have recently set up Mailman version 2.1.13.  Everything works as
>expected except for the email form I use on my website to unsubscribe
>folks.  
>
>It takes and email address submission and composes an email to 
>listname-request at listserv.mydomain.org   with body of:
>
>unsubscribe address=submitted at email.adr
>end
>
>apache gets an email response from mailman as follows:
>...
>
>
>The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your
>original message.
>
>- Results:
>    Usage:
>    
>    unsubscribe [password] [address=<address>]
>        Unsubscribe from the mailing list.  If given, your password must
>match
>        your current password.  If omitted, a confirmation email will be
>sent
>        to the unsubscribing address. If you wish to unsubscribe an
>address
>        other than the address you sent this request from, you may
>specify
>        `address=<address>' (no brackets around the email address, and
>no
>        quotes!)
>
>
>- Unprocessed:
>    unsubscribe address=example at yahoo.com
>    end


This was solved on the #mailman irc channel after the post was
submitted, but before it was approved.

The "unsubscribe address=example at yahoo.com" command in the message body
was unprocessed because there was an invalid command in the subject.

The subject was "Remove from my email List" and remove is a synonym for
unsubscribe, so the subject looked like an unsubscribe command with
syntax errors and produced the Usage: message for 'unsubscribe'.

Emails to the -request address can contain commands in the Subject:
header. UnVERPed confirmations in particular work this way. Thus, if
the Subject is not intended to be a command, it must not begin with
any of the following email command words:

confirm
echo
end
help
info
join
leave
lists
password
remove
set
stop
subscribe
unsubscribe
who

or it will be interpreted as a command and if it contains an error,
will abort processing of the actual command(s).


-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 13 04:56:10 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:56:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remove / Strip Sender Signature Question
In-Reply-To: <4B9AE93E.4010001@artabase.net>
Message-ID: <PC1952010031219561002328051f7f2@msapiro>

Artabase wrote:
>
>I searched archives and checked faq but couldn't find this, apologies if
>I'm keyword 'tarded this morning.
>
>Is it possible to strip the Sender Signature?


What is the sender signature?


>Our lists are subscribed to some other lists, and we're having problems
>with members unsubscribing us from those lists instead of unsubbing from
>ours.


Do you mean that your list is subscribed to some other list, and the
other list adds a footer similar to the following:

>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/yourlist%40yourdomain


and then members of your list see that footer, follow the Unsubscribe
link, request unsubscription, and then receive the confirmation (sent
to your list) and confirm the unsubscribe?

If that's what you mean, you have a couple of choices. Mailman has no
facility for removing that footer from the post to your list, but you
can add your own footer with a message something like

DO NOT USE THE ABOVE LINK TO UNSUBSCRIBE!
To unsubscribe from this list, go to http://... or send a blank email
to yourlist-unsubscribe at yourdomain.

Or you could add header_filter_rules to your list with regexps like

^subject:\s*confirm [0-9a-f]{32}\s*$
^from:.*-confirm\+[0-9a-f]{32}@

and an action of Discard to prevent the confirmations from reaching
your list.

Of course someone with intent to unsubscribe your list from the remote
list could always request a password reminder from the remote list
which would be posted to your list, and then use the password to
unsubscribe without confirmation.

You could add

^subject:\s*[^\s@]+@[^\s]+\s+mailing list reminder\s*$

to the regexps above to stop the password reminders too.


If the above is not the scenario that you are encountering, then please
be more specific about exactly what it is.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From unpublishednumber at gmail.com  Sat Mar 13 15:20:11 2010
From: unpublishednumber at gmail.com (LexIcon)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 09:20:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Mailman Archives page not updating
Message-ID: <4B9B9F1B.4030905@nc2600.org>

In regards to previous list message 
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-February/060593.html ...

I am entering "arch" in the /bin directory (/usr/lib/mailman/bin on a 
CentOS server), but the archive does not rebuild, and I only get the 
message "i686" back.

I tried using "cleanarch" but I get the error message "bash: cleanarch: 
command not found"

I also get "bash: mailmanctl: command not found"

Typing "ls", I can see all of the files are present, so I'm not sure 
what is going wrong.

- Lex

From gordon at tft-bbs.co.uk  Sun Mar 14 08:22:12 2010
From: gordon at tft-bbs.co.uk (Gordon Smith)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 07:22:12 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Error
Message-ID: <27463E24-A108-4D80-87BC-6CCD1736269B@tft-bbs.co.uk>

Hi

Really sorry to bother you guys; I'm sure you're busy with lots of development issues.

I'm just hoping you might be able to help with a problem with our Mailman configuration, even though it's not standard Mailman.

We're running Mailman under Mac OSX Server 10.6.2.  For the most part, it runs incredibly well and I'm more than happy with it.

However, we're having a problem which nobody seems to be able to resolve and we cannot find out from anybody at Apple how to fix.

We have a mailing list configured which, at one time, was set to require confirmation and approval on subscriptions.  We changed that policy to just 'confirm', but it seems that when we made the change, a pending confirmation was waiting to be processed.

Now, we're getting admin messages to the moderator and list owner's address daily telling us that this confirmation is outstanding.

When we try clicking on the link and tending to the request by selecting reject, we get the message:

"We hit a bug!  Please inform the webmaster and look in the error log", or words to that effect.

However, there doesn't seem to be anything in the err file pertaining to this.  So what I'm asking is whether there is a way to clear this, as it must be cached somewhere I think.

Also, subsequent subscription requests from the email address concerned are being ignored by Mailman which, I think, is part of the same problem.

Thanks in advance, and may I just say also thanks for producing such an accessible web-based list manager.  We use screen-readers to interface with our computers and MailMan is very user-friendly from our point of view.  Descriptions for everything, very well written and explained interactive help.  Great job.

Gordon



From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 14 15:41:28 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 07:41:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Archives page not updating
In-Reply-To: <4B9B9F1B.4030905@nc2600.org>
Message-ID: <PC1952010031407412804379716aad1@msapiro>

LexIcon wrote:

>I am entering "arch" in the /bin directory (/usr/lib/mailman/bin on a 
>CentOS server), but the archive does not rebuild, and I only get the 
>message "i686" back.
>
>I tried using "cleanarch" but I get the error message "bash: cleanarch: 
>command not found"
>
>I also get "bash: mailmanctl: command not found"
>
>Typing "ls", I can see all of the files are present, so I'm not sure 
>what is going wrong.


Neither '/usr/lib/mailman/bin' or '.' is in your path so you need to
type

./arch
./cleanarch
./mailmanctl

etc.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From terri at zone12.com  Sun Mar 14 15:44:43 2010
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 10:44:43 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Archives page not updating
In-Reply-To: <4B9B9F1B.4030905@nc2600.org>
References: <4B9B9F1B.4030905@nc2600.org>
Message-ID: <4B9CF65B.6000100@zone12.com>

You're using the wrong arch; there's an arch command that tells you your 
machine's architecture (i.e. i686).

What you'll want to do is go into /usr/lib/mailman/bin and execute

./arch

and similarly for cleanarch

./cleanarch

from there to make sure that you're executing the right thing.  Or you 
can use the whole path (/usr/lib/mailman/bin/arch) to ensure that you're 
running the command you want to be running.

(This is happening because your machine (sensibly) doesn't look for 
executables in the current path.  I'm sure there's a nice tutorial as to 
why and how to work like this if you're curious.)

LexIcon wrote:
> In regards to previous list message 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-February/060593.html 
> ...
> 
> I am entering "arch" in the /bin directory (/usr/lib/mailman/bin on a 
> CentOS server), but the archive does not rebuild, and I only get the 
> message "i686" back.
> 
> I tried using "cleanarch" but I get the error message "bash: cleanarch: 
> command not found"
> 
> I also get "bash: mailmanctl: command not found"
> 
> Typing "ls", I can see all of the files are present, so I'm not sure 
> what is going wrong.
> 
> - Lex
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/terri%40zone12.com
> 

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 14 15:56:22 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 07:56:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Error
In-Reply-To: <27463E24-A108-4D80-87BC-6CCD1736269B@tft-bbs.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1952010031407562200783a4ae5a4@msapiro>

Gordon Smith wrote:
>
>We're running Mailman under Mac OSX Server 10.6.2.  For the most part, it runs incredibly well and I'm more than happy with it.
>
>However, we're having a problem which nobody seems to be able to resolve and we cannot find out from anybody at Apple how to fix.
>
>We have a mailing list configured which, at one time, was set to require confirmation and approval on subscriptions.  We changed that policy to just 'confirm', but it seems that when we made the change, a pending confirmation was waiting to be processed.
>
>Now, we're getting admin messages to the moderator and list owner's address daily telling us that this confirmation is outstanding.
>
>When we try clicking on the link and tending to the request by selecting reject, we get the message:
>
>"We hit a bug!  Please inform the webmaster and look in the error log", or words to that effect.
>
>However, there doesn't seem to be anything in the err file pertaining to this.  So what I'm asking is whether there is a way to clear this, as it must be cached somewhere I think.


What 'err' file. Are you looking in Mailman's 'error' log?


>Also, subsequent subscription requests from the email address concerned are being ignored by Mailman which, I think, is part of the same problem.


I'm not sure about that, but you can start by just removing Mailman's
lists/LISTNAME/request.pck file. If there are other admindb requests
for this list, handle them first. That will get rid of the daily
notices, and the file will be recreated when needed.

Then if there are still problems with new subscriptions, we'll have to
investigate that. There may be an issue with the
lists/LISTNAME/pending.pck file.

What is the issue. Do confirmations not get sent, or do they fail when
attempting to confirm?

If the latter, have you tried confirming by both web and email?

There is a script at <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_pending>
which will list the pending confirmations which may help.


>Thanks in advance, and may I just say also thanks for producing such an accessible web-based list manager.  We use screen-readers to interface with our computers and MailMan is very user-friendly from our point of view.  Descriptions for everything, very well written and explained interactive help.  Great job.


Thank you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From unpublishednumber at gmail.com  Sun Mar 14 22:13:59 2010
From: unpublishednumber at gmail.com (LexIcon)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 17:13:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Archives page not updating
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010031407412804379716aad1@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010031407412804379716aad1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B9D5197.6080009@nc2600.org>


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> LexIcon wrote:
>
>   
>> I am entering "arch" in the /bin directory (/usr/lib/mailman/bin on a 
>> CentOS server), but the archive does not rebuild, and I only get the 
>> message "i686" back.
>>
>> I tried using "cleanarch" but I get the error message "bash: cleanarch: 
>> command not found"
>>
>> I also get "bash: mailmanctl: command not found"
>>
>> Typing "ls", I can see all of the files are present, so I'm not sure 
>> what is going wrong.
>>     
>
>
> Neither '/usr/lib/mailman/bin' or '.' is in your path so you need to
> type
>
> ./arch
> ./cleanarch
> ./mailmanctl
>
> etc.
>
>   

Thanks for the response. I actually started just using the full path 
names, but that's a helpful shortcut.

Ok, so I ran...

//usr/lib/mailman/bin///checkperms -f/

... and it fixed a bunch of issues... the current result is "No problems 
found" ... and now and I'm running...

//usr/lib/mailman/bin/arch listname//
/
... which processes a bunch of stuff, but the archive still does not 
update past 2008. When I look at the log, it is only processing archives 
though June 2008, even though it's a fairly active list and has had as 
many as 25 posts a day in the last few weeks.

Running...

/./check_db -a/

... I get results for all lists that look like...

/[root@[domain] bin]# ./check_db -av
List: mailman
   /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck: okay
   /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck.last: okay
    [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
'/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.db'
    [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
'/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.db.last'/

... and now I'm really not sure what to try next. I also tried "arch 
--wipe" with no change in results and "cleanarch" which just spits back 
instructions and doesn't seem to run any operations. I'm not sure I have 
the cleanarch syntax right, nor do I really understand its function.

... With everything I've tried, it rebuilds the archives, but does not 
incorporate recent posts.

Lists started since the server move seem to archive new messages without 
issue.

- Lex

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 14 23:53:24 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:53:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Archives page not updating
In-Reply-To: <4B9D5197.6080009@nc2600.org>
Message-ID: <PC1952010031415532405939716ab69@msapiro>

LexIcon wrote:

>Ok, so I ran...
>
>//usr/lib/mailman/bin///checkperms -f/
>
>... and it fixed a bunch of issues... the current result is "No problems 
>found" ... and now and I'm running...
>
>//usr/lib/mailman/bin/arch listname//
>/
>... which processes a bunch of stuff, but the archive still does not 
>update past 2008. When I look at the log, it is only processing archives 
>though June 2008, even though it's a fairly active list and has had as 
>many as 25 posts a day in the last few weeks.


First, if you are trying to rebuild the entire archive, you should be
specifying --wipr ti bin/arch, BUT first verify that the
archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox has the complete archive.

It seems that it may not.


>Running...
>
>/./check_db -a/
>
>... I get results for all lists that look like...
>
>/[root@[domain] bin]# ./check_db -av
>List: mailman
>   /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck: okay
>   /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck.last: okay
>    [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
>'/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.db'
>    [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
>'/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.db.last'/


That is a normal result.


>... and now I'm really not sure what to try next. I also tried "arch 
>--wipe" with no change in results and "cleanarch" which just spits back 
>instructions and doesn't seem to run any operations. I'm not sure I have 
>the cleanarch syntax right, nor do I really understand its function.
>
>... With everything I've tried, it rebuilds the archives, but does not 
>incorporate recent posts.


Then the recent posts are probably not in the
archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file, perhaps because of
some permissions error. If that is the reason, they are probably all
shunted and in the shunt queue. If so, you will find error messages
and tracebacks in Mailman's error log and running bin/unshunt will
probably archive the messages assuming the permissions or whatever
issue has been fixed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 15 01:38:16 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 17:38:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <4B8FCACE.7040504@msapiro.net>
References: <4B8FCACE.7040504@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4B9D8178.4090809@msapiro.net>

To follow up on this thread, there is now a FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/RAKJ> which contains an attached template,
Ext_Arch.py, which can be used as an external archiver and which will
add the message to the pipermail archive, and then call a stub function
with arguments of the list name, host name, the URL to the just archived
message, the file system path to the just archived message and the
message object. The stub can be coded to call a search indexer or do
other things one may wish to do with the archived message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From unpublishednumber at gmail.com  Mon Mar 15 01:53:19 2010
From: unpublishednumber at gmail.com (LexIcon)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 20:53:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Archives page not updating
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010031415532405939716ab69@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010031415532405939716ab69@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4B9D84FF.1070706@nc2600.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Then the recent posts are probably not in the
> archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file, perhaps because of
> some permissions error. If that is the reason, they are probably all
> shunted and in the shunt queue. If so, you will find error messages
> and tracebacks in Mailman's error log and running bin/unshunt will
> probably archive the messages assuming the permissions or whatever
> issue has been fixed.

Ah! I was relying on check_perms and did not look directly at the error 
logs.

Ok, so I ran...

chown -hR mailman private/

... and changed the owner of everything in there to the mailman user. I 
then ran...

./unshunt

... which took a long time to process, and then I ran...

./arch listname

... which did not seem to have resolved the issue, so I ran...

[root at domain bin]# ./arch --wipe listname 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox

... which resulted in ...

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./arch", line 200, in ?
    main()
  File "./arch", line 177, in main
    shutil.rmtree(mlist.archive_dir())
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/shutil.py", line 155, in rmtree
    onerror(os.listdir, path, sys.exc_info())
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/shutil.py", line 153, in rmtree
    names = os.listdir(path)
OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname'

... and I checked the error logs again and found...

Feb 20 21:37:10 2010 (9826) Archive file access failure:
        /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox 
[Errno 13] Permission denied: 
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox'
Feb 20 21:37:10 2010 (9826) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13] 
Permission denied: 
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox'
Feb 20 21:37:10 2010 (9826) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose
    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 200, in 
ArchiveMail
    self.__archive_to_mbox(msg)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 169, in 
__archive_to_mbox
    mbox = self.__archive_file(afn)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 157, in 
__archive_file
    return Mailbox.Mailbox(open(afn, 'a+'))
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox'

Feb 20 21:37:10 2010 (9826) SHUNTING: 
1266730628.7653761+286a6674cf078ace752aad7c7525dadae0f85338

... so I'm still not getting anywhere.

- Lex

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 15 02:48:27 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 18:48:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Archives page not updating
In-Reply-To: <4B9D84FF.1070706@nc2600.org>
Message-ID: <PC19520100314184827050043ea9dcf@msapiro>

LexIcon wrote:
>
>Ok, so I ran...
>
>chown -hR mailman private/
>
>... and changed the owner of everything in there to the mailman user. I 
>then ran...



What you really want is

chgrp -R mailman private/


>./unshunt
>
>... which took a long time to process, and then I ran...
>
>./arch listname
>
>... which did not seem to have resolved the issue, so I ran...
>
>[root at domain bin]# ./arch --wipe listname 
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox
>
>... which resulted in ...
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "./arch", line 200, in ?
>    main()
>  File "./arch", line 177, in main
>    shutil.rmtree(mlist.archive_dir())
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/shutil.py", line 155, in rmtree
>    onerror(os.listdir, path, sys.exc_info())
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/shutil.py", line 153, in rmtree
>    names = os.listdir(path)
>OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
>'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname'


So there are now no 'listname' archives at all as they were probably
removed by a prior "bin/arch --wipe".


>... and I checked the error logs again and found...
>
>Feb 20 21:37:10 2010 (9826) Archive file access failure:
>        /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox 
>[Errno 13] Permission denied: 
>'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox'
>Feb 20 21:37:10 2010 (9826) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13] 
>Permission denied: 
>'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox'
>Feb 20 21:37:10 2010 (9826) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose
>    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 200, in 
>ArchiveMail
>    self.__archive_to_mbox(msg)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 169, in 
>__archive_to_mbox
>    mbox = self.__archive_file(afn)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 157, in 
>__archive_file
>    return Mailbox.Mailbox(open(afn, 'a+'))
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 
>'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox'
>
>Feb 20 21:37:10 2010 (9826) SHUNTING: 
>1266730628.7653761+286a6674cf078ace752aad7c7525dadae0f85338


So fix the group and permissions on
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox and
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox

chgrp -R mailman /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox

chmod 2775 /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox

chmod 0664 /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox


Then run unshunt again and this time check for errors and reshunted
messages before continuing.

Then run "bin/arch --wipe listname"

It would be a good idea to stop mailman  before doing all this, and
then start it when done.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From troy.campbell at fedex.com  Mon Mar 15 03:17:26 2010
From: troy.campbell at fedex.com (Troy Campbell)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:17:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrated lists getting firefox error,
	and new name not original list name
Message-ID: <DC897A477FBE034FA867FAE8BEEC39E1051A7289@MEMEXCH07V.corp.ds.fedex.com>

Hello,

I just migrated some lists from a server called
mailman.rmtc.fedex.com to a new server called
mailman2.rmtc.fedex.com (both running
2.1.9) and configuring things to try to keep the
lists the original @mailman.rmtc.fedex.com name
and I'm running into two issues. 

First I've started getting the following error in firefox
on Mailman pages where I try to add a user or create
a list using the web pages:

"Although this page is encrypted, the information you have entered is to be sent over an unencrypted connection and could easily be read by a third party.  Are you sure you want to continue sending this information?"

Then when I hit "Continue" nothing happens, it's
like I hit "Cancel".  The workaround is to use the
command line to do the function (such as add a member).

I modified this in mm_cfg.py on mailman2 (after
migrating) to:

fqdn = 'mailman.rmtc.fedex.com'

so as to have everything stay
@mailman.rmtc.fedex.com in the name.

Also I'm rewriting http to https URLs however I was
doing that on the original server and not getting this
error.

After creating a newlist I see this:

# withlist -l troytest
Loading list troytest (locked)
The variable `m' is the troytest MailList instance
>>> m.getListAddress('admin')
'troytest-admin at mailman.rmtc.fedex.com'
>>> m.getListAddress()
'troytest at mailman.rmtc.fedex.com'

which seems to be what I want (not mailman2...).

I was going to try running the withlist...fix_url command
on all the lists I brought over but thought I should wait/see
as the issue seems to be related more to the "fqdn"
not taking effect?

Secondly when I send an email using a test list I also get
@mailman2.rmtc.fedex.com as the email address rather
than @mailman.rmtc.fedex.com?

Any help with either issue appreciated!

Troy

From bcummings at clublinks.com.au  Mon Mar 15 02:47:22 2010
From: bcummings at clublinks.com.au (Ben Cummings)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:47:22 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exim / Mailman No Longer Working
Message-ID: <7BDCDB52CC6EC948B0C5B40CB3F71A1F03D08A54@CLSHEX01.clublinks.com.au>

Hello,

I am having some difficulty getting Mailman to work with Exim after a
recent upgrade of the email software that we run. The configuration for
exim has remained, as has the configuration for mailman. This *was*
working, but is not after the update.

The error message i get in the Exim log:

2010-03-15 12:25:47 1Nqz3z-0001P7-EL <= <removed> H=<removed> [removed]
P=esmtp S=12847
id=7BDCDB52CC6EC948B0C5B40CB3F71A1F03D08A47 at CLSHEX01.<removed>
2010-03-15 12:25:47 1Nqz3z-0001P7-EL unable to set gid=41 or uid=41
(euid=3000): local delivery to <removed> transport=mailman_transport
2010-03-15 12:25:47 1Nqz3z-0001P7-EL failed to read delivery status for
<removed> from delivery subprocess
2010-03-15 12:25:47 1Nqz3z-0001P7-EL pipe transport process returned
non-zero status 0x0100: exit code 1
2010-03-15 12:25:47 1Nqz3z-0001P7-EL == <removed> R=mailman_router
T=mailman_transport defer (-1)
2010-03-15 12:25:47 1Nqz3z-0001P7-EL Frozen

Extract from /etc/passwd:

mailman:x:41:41:GNU Mailing List Manager:/usr/lib/mailman:/sbin/nologin
atmail:x:3000:3000::/home/atmail:/bin/bash

Directory listing for /usr/lib/mailman:

drwxrwsr-x  2 root mailman  4096 Jan 26 11:58 bin
drwxrwsr-x  2 root mailman  4096 Jan 27 04:02 cgi-bin
drwxrwsr-x  2 root mailman  4096 Jan 26 11:58 cron
drwxrwsr-x  2 root mailman  4096 Jan 26 11:58 icons
drwxrwsr-x  2 root mailman  4096 Jan 27 04:02 mail
drwxrwsr-x 11 root mailman  4096 Feb  8 17:03 Mailman
drwxrwsr-x 34 root mailman  4096 Jan 26 11:58 messages
drwxrwsr-x  6 root mailman  4096 Jan 26 11:58 pythonlib
drwxrwsr-x  2 root mailman  4096 Jan 26 11:58 scripts
drwxrwsr-x 35 root mailman  4096 Jan 26 11:58 templates
drwxrwsr-x  4 root mailman  4096 Jan 26 11:58 tests

Directory listing for exim:

lrwxrwxrwx  1 atmail apache      11 Mar 10 23:15 exim -> exim-4.69-1
-rwsr-xr-x  1 atmail apache 1102871 Mar 10 23:15 exim-4.69-1


I'm sure i'm missing something really simple....but i just can't see
what it is...

Any help would be much appreciated.

Regards,

Ben

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 15 04:11:36 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 20:11:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrated lists getting firefox error,
	and new name not original list name
In-Reply-To: <DC897A477FBE034FA867FAE8BEEC39E1051A7289@MEMEXCH07V.corp.ds.fedex.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520100314201136009343ea9c41@msapiro>

Troy Campbell wrote:
>
>I just migrated some lists from a server called
>mailman.rmtc.fedex.com to a new server called
>mailman2.rmtc.fedex.com (both running
>2.1.9) and configuring things to try to keep the
>lists the original @mailman.rmtc.fedex.com name
>and I'm running into two issues. 
>
>First I've started getting the following error in firefox
>on Mailman pages where I try to add a user or create
>a list using the web pages:
>
>"Although this page is encrypted, the information you have entered is to be sent over an unencrypted connection and could easily be read by a third party.  Are you sure you want to continue sending this information?"


Do you intend to be using SSL and https URLs. If so, see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/7oA9>. You need an https scheme in
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN when you run fix_url.


>Then when I hit "Continue" nothing happens, it's
>like I hit "Cancel".  The workaround is to use the
>command line to do the function (such as add a member).


The post URLs on the web interface probably still point to the old
server because you haven't updated the web_page_url attributes of the
moved lists with fix_url.


>I modified this in mm_cfg.py on mailman2 (after
>migrating) to:
>
>fqdn = 'mailman.rmtc.fedex.com'
>
>so as to have everything stay
>@mailman.rmtc.fedex.com in the name.
>
>Also I'm rewriting http to https URLs however I was
>doing that on the original server and not getting this
>error.


It depends how you do it. See the above referenced FAQ and also the FAQ
at <http://wiki.list.org/x/ioA9>.


>After creating a newlist I see this:
>
># withlist -l troytest
>Loading list troytest (locked)
>The variable `m' is the troytest MailList instance
>>>> m.getListAddress('admin')
>'troytest-admin at mailman.rmtc.fedex.com'
>>>> m.getListAddress()
>'troytest at mailman.rmtc.fedex.com'
>
>which seems to be what I want (not mailman2...).
>
>I was going to try running the withlist...fix_url command
>on all the lists I brought over but thought I should wait/see
>as the issue seems to be related more to the "fqdn"
>not taking effect?


That's what fix_url is for. See the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9>.


>Secondly when I send an email using a test list I also get
>@mailman2.rmtc.fedex.com as the email address rather
>than @mailman.rmtc.fedex.com?


Get it where? If you mean in things like the List-* headers and the
Sender:, fix_url will fix that too if DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and
DEFAULT_URL_HOST are properly set or you can just change a list's
host_name on General Options.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 15 04:24:13 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 20:24:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exim / Mailman No Longer Working
In-Reply-To: <7BDCDB52CC6EC948B0C5B40CB3F71A1F03D08A54@CLSHEX01.clublinks.com.au>
Message-ID: <PC19520100314202413053143ea9de0@msapiro>

Ben Cummingswrote:
>
>I am having some difficulty getting Mailman to work with Exim after a
>recent upgrade of the email software that we run. The configuration for
>exim has remained, as has the configuration for mailman. This *was*
>working, but is not after the update.
>
>The error message i get in the Exim log:
>
>2010-03-15 12:25:47 1Nqz3z-0001P7-EL <= <removed> H=<removed> [removed]
>P=esmtp S=12847
>id=7BDCDB52CC6EC948B0C5B40CB3F71A1F03D08A47 at CLSHEX01.<removed>
>2010-03-15 12:25:47 1Nqz3z-0001P7-EL unable to set gid=41 or uid=41
>(euid=3000): local delivery to <removed> transport=mailman_transport
>2010-03-15 12:25:47 1Nqz3z-0001P7-EL failed to read delivery status for
><removed> from delivery subprocess
>2010-03-15 12:25:47 1Nqz3z-0001P7-EL pipe transport process returned
>non-zero status 0x0100: exit code 1
>2010-03-15 12:25:47 1Nqz3z-0001P7-EL == <removed> R=mailman_router
>T=mailman_transport defer (-1)
>2010-03-15 12:25:47 1Nqz3z-0001P7-EL Frozen


Exim's attempt to pipe the mail to the mailman/mail/mailman wrapper is
failing with status 1 which means there's some basic error in the
command like the wrapper isn't executable or Exim is not pointing at
the right place.

Check the definition of the 'command' in the mailman-transport
definition in the Exim configuration. The actual wrapper location may
be defined in a macro.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From troy.campbell at fedex.com  Mon Mar 15 05:21:24 2010
From: troy.campbell at fedex.com (Troy Campbell)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 22:21:24 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrated lists getting firefox error,
 and new name not original list name
Message-ID: <4B9DB5C4.7080404@fedex.com>


> 
> 
>>Secondly when I send an email using a test list I also get
>>@mailman2.rmtc.fedex.com as the email address rather
>>than @mailman.rmtc.fedex.com?
> 
> 
> Get it where? If you mean in things like the List-* headers and the
> Sender:, fix_url will fix that too if DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST are properly set or you can just change a list's
> host_name on General Options.
> 
Sorry I was unclear Mark.  When I email to the lists that I moved over
I'm getting this in the sender address: listname at mailman2.rmtc.fedex.com
rather than listname at mailman.rmtc.fedex.com.  I tried doing the
  withlist -l -r fix_url listname
but that didn't seem to have an effect?
I also tried
  withlist -l -a -r fix_url
which seemed to run pretty quick considering all the lists and the time
it took to do just one so I don't know if I ran it right?

Regards,
Troy

> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lucio at sulweb.org  Mon Mar 15 08:16:00 2010
From: lucio at sulweb.org (Lucio Crusca)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:16:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] not receiveng moderator notifications
Message-ID: <201003150816.00208.lucio@sulweb.org>

Hello everybody,

I'm new here, hope not posting dumb questions.

I've a mailman/debian lenny running a few lists. For some of those lists I 
don't receive the moderator notifications from mailman, such as when there's a 
pending message to accept or reject. Other lists on the same server with the 
same moderator address configured do work instead. Can you help me track down 
the problem please?

Thanks in advace
Lucio.

From lucio at sulweb.org  Mon Mar 15 08:21:33 2010
From: lucio at sulweb.org (Lucio Crusca)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:21:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] not receiveng moderator notifications
In-Reply-To: <201003150816.00208.lucio@sulweb.org>
References: <201003150816.00208.lucio@sulweb.org>
Message-ID: <201003150821.33261.lucio@sulweb.org>

In data luned? 15 marzo 2010 08:16:00, Lucio Crusca ha scritto:
> I've a mailman/debian lenny running a few lists...

Sorry, please ignore my post, I've just realized I had already started a 
thread on this subject and I prefer going on with that one.

From cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  Mon Mar 15 10:10:53 2010
From: cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com (Cedric Jeanneret)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 10:10:53 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <4B9D8178.4090809@msapiro.net>
References: <4B8FCACE.7040504@msapiro.net>
	<4B9D8178.4090809@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20100315101053.4ddfc794@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>

On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 17:38:16 -0700
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> To follow up on this thread, there is now a FAQ at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/RAKJ> which contains an attached template,
> Ext_Arch.py, which can be used as an external archiver and which will
> add the message to the pipermail archive, and then call a stub function
> with arguments of the list name, host name, the URL to the just archived
> message, the file system path to the just archived message and the
> message object. The stub can be coded to call a search indexer or do
> other things one may wish to do with the archived message.
> 

Hello Mark,

It just works like a magic!. Thank you so much!

Maybe we should delete my ""bug" on launchpad, or directly link it to your FAQ page ?

I just added my code in the function, and now it indexes, and archives correctly.

Thanks again!

See you

C.

-- 
C?dric Jeanneret                 |  System Administrator
021 619 10 32                    |  Camptocamp SA
cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  |  PSE-A / EPFL
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 197 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100315/c2cac460/attachment.pgp>

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 15 16:09:26 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:09:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrated lists getting firefox error,
	and newname not original list name
In-Reply-To: <4B9DB5C4.7080404@fedex.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010031508092603909716aaa0@msapiro>

Troy Campbell wrote:
>> 
>Sorry I was unclear Mark.  When I email to the lists that I moved over
>I'm getting this in the sender address: listname at mailman2.rmtc.fedex.com
>rather than listname at mailman.rmtc.fedex.com.  I tried doing the
>  withlist -l -r fix_url listname
>but that didn't seem to have an effect?
>I also tried
>  withlist -l -a -r fix_url
>which seemed to run pretty quick considering all the lists and the time
>it took to do just one so I don't know if I ran it right?


Most of the time is probably 'start-up'. did it print 'loading list'
messages for each list?

I still do not know what you mean by 'sender address'. Mailman doesn't
use the list posting address in either the envelope sender
(Return-Path:) or the Sender: header, it uses the listname-bounces at ...
address.

However, it is possible the MTA is rewriting the domain in some
addresses. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/uYA9>.

Is your web interface now working?

If you need to follow up with either of these, please post specifically
what you have in mm_cfg.py and what your DNS configuration is.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Mar 15 17:40:46 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:40:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <20100315101053.4ddfc794@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201003150940460125fe64842b@msapiro>

Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
>
>Maybe we should delete my ""bug" on launchpad, or directly link it to your FAQ page ?
>
>I just added my code in the function, and now it indexes, and archives correctly.


I suggest you just delete the two existing attachments and attach your
current code with a note that it is based on the template in the FAQ.

That way the xappy/Xapian code will be available there if others wish
to use it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mmestnik at nagios.com  Mon Mar 15 21:12:37 2010
From: mmestnik at nagios.com (Mike Mestnik)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 15:12:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail mm-handler deployment.
Message-ID: <4B9E94B5.8040905@nagios.com>

Hello,
  I'd like to share with every one that I just deployed mailman using
the contributed mm-handler and that I had some issues working with the
default sendmail configuration that I plan to bring to the sendmail
developers.

  If there are any other comments or questions on this configuration I'd
be glad to hear them.

This configuration does work for me.

-- 
Mike Mestnik
Technical Team
___
Nagios Enterprises, LLC
Email:  mmestnik at nagios.com
Web:    www.nagios.com


From cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com  Tue Mar 16 09:04:02 2010
From: cedric.jeanneret at camptocamp.com (=?UTF-8?Q?C=C3=A9dric_Jeanneret?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:04:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Indexing mail right after delivery
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003150940460125fe64842b@msapiro>
References: <20100315101053.4ddfc794@saya.wrk.lsn.camptocamp.com>
	<PC195201003150940460125fe64842b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <7f569b521003160104g365f90cch2c3512901ed74b1d@mail.gmail.com>

Done for launchpad. thanks again!

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 5:40 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
>>
>>Maybe we should delete my ""bug" on launchpad, or directly link it to your FAQ page ?
>>
>>I just added my code in the function, and now it indexes, and archives correctly.
>
>
> I suggest you just delete the two existing attachments and attach your
> current code with a note that it is based on the template in the FAQ.
>
> That way the xappy/Xapian code will be available there if others wish
> to use it.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> ? ? ? ?The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California ? ?better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From lucio at sulweb.org  Tue Mar 16 09:17:22 2010
From: lucio at sulweb.org (Lucio Crusca)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:17:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] available lists in a single page
Message-ID: <201003160917.22760.lucio@sulweb.org>

Hello *,

my mailman hosts 8 lists, but only 6 are shown in this available lists page:

http://vps.virtual-bit.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo

One of the missing two shows up here:

http://lists.virtual-bit.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo

and the last one is here

http://sulweb.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo

Those 3 names are CNAMEs for the same server. Is there a way to have all of 
the lists managed by the same mailman shown in a single page?


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 16 16:22:48 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:22:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] available lists in a single page
In-Reply-To: <201003160917.22760.lucio@sulweb.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201003160822480406c4640406@msapiro>

Lucio Crusca wrote:
>
>my mailman hosts 8 lists, but only 6 are shown in this available lists page:
>
>http://vps.virtual-bit.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo
>
>One of the missing two shows up here:
>
>http://lists.virtual-bit.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo
>
>and the last one is here
>
>http://sulweb.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo
>
>Those 3 names are CNAMEs for the same server. Is there a way to have all of 
>the lists managed by the same mailman shown in a single page?


Set

VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off

in mm_cfg.py. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mmestnik at nagios.com  Tue Mar 16 18:18:08 2010
From: mmestnik at nagios.com (Mike Mestnik)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 12:18:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail mm-handler deployment.
In-Reply-To: <4B9E94B5.8040905@nagios.com>
References: <4B9E94B5.8040905@nagios.com>
Message-ID: <4B9FBD50.1060206@nagios.com>

Mike Mestnik wrote:
> Hello,
>   I'd like to share with every one that I just deployed mailman using
> the contributed mm-handler and that I had some issues working with the
> default sendmail configuration that I plan to bring to the sendmail
> developers.
> 
>   If there are any other comments or questions on this configuration I'd
> be glad to hear them.
> 
> This configuration does work for me.
> 
I spoke with sendmail-2010(Claus Assmann) and was given a new idea as to
how to set these options.  This is what was pointed out for CentOS54:

define(`LOCAL_MAILER_FLAGS', `rhqSu')
MODIFY_MAILER_FLAGS(`LOCAL', `-sAw5:/|@q')
define(`LOCAL_MAILER_PATH',
`/usr/share/doc/mailman-2.1.9/contrib/mm-handler, U=mailman:mail')
define(`LOCAL_MAILER_ARGS', `mm-handler $h $u')
define(`LOCAL_MAILER_DSN_DIAGNOSTIC_CODE', `DNS/RFC822/SMTP')
MAILER(`local', )dnl

#!/bin/sh
chmod ug+x /usr/share/doc/mailman-2.1.9/contrib/mm-handler*
chown root:mail /usr/share/doc/mailman-2.1.9/contrib/mm-handler*

I'm unsure still what all of these options do, but I'm told that these
options will generate a Mlocal that matches what I'm using.

I hope this helps future sendmail users.

-- 
Mike Mestnik
Technical Team
___
Nagios Enterprises, LLC
Email:  mmestnik at nagios.com
Web:    www.nagios.com


From webmaster at artabase.net  Tue Mar 16 23:29:52 2010
From: webmaster at artabase.net (Artabase)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 09:29:52 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remove / Strip Sender Signature Question
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010031219561002328051f7f2@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010031219561002328051f7f2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4BA00660.7040601@artabase.net>

Hi Mark

Thanks so much for your detailed and perceptive response. You got
everything on the mark and I haven't tried it yet but I believe your
regexp is what I'm looking for.

Many thanks for taking the time to respond to my query.

Rebecca


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Artabase wrote:
>   
>> I searched archives and checked faq but couldn't find this, apologies if
>> I'm keyword 'tarded this morning.
>>
>> Is it possible to strip the Sender Signature?
>>     
>
>
> What is the sender signature?
>
>
>   
>> Our lists are subscribed to some other lists, and we're having problems
>> with members unsubscribing us from those lists instead of unsubbing from
>> ours.
>>     
>
>
> Do you mean that your list is subscribed to some other list, and the
> other list adds a footer similar to the following:
>
>   
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/yourlist%40yourdomain
>>     
>
>
> and then members of your list see that footer, follow the Unsubscribe
> link, request unsubscription, and then receive the confirmation (sent
> to your list) and confirm the unsubscribe?
>
> If that's what you mean, you have a couple of choices. Mailman has no
> facility for removing that footer from the post to your list, but you
> can add your own footer with a message something like
>
> DO NOT USE THE ABOVE LINK TO UNSUBSCRIBE!
> To unsubscribe from this list, go to http://... or send a blank email
> to yourlist-unsubscribe at yourdomain.
>
> Or you could add header_filter_rules to your list with regexps like
>
> ^subject:\s*confirm [0-9a-f]{32}\s*$
> ^from:.*-confirm\+[0-9a-f]{32}@
>
> and an action of Discard to prevent the confirmations from reaching
> your list.
>
> Of course someone with intent to unsubscribe your list from the remote
> list could always request a password reminder from the remote list
> which would be posted to your list, and then use the password to
> unsubscribe without confirmation.
>
> You could add
>
> ^subject:\s*[^\s@]+@[^\s]+\s+mailing list reminder\s*$
>
> to the regexps above to stop the password reminders too.
>
>
> If the above is not the scenario that you are encountering, then please
> be more specific about exactly what it is.
>
>   

From mdorian6 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 16 18:07:28 2010
From: mdorian6 at gmail.com (Michael)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:07:28 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman
Message-ID: <28258AE86B79416E8D5DBA3094839C3C@ChananPC>

Hi There

Please help with the following problem.



with mailman I need to send a mail to the name of the mailing list, but its not going to the email on the list, I sent a mail to the list name for example, testlist at canit.co.za but im not getting the mail, do i need to send it from a specifiv account? what must i do?

thanks chanan

From brian at emwd.com  Wed Mar 17 00:12:33 2010
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:12:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman
In-Reply-To: <28258AE86B79416E8D5DBA3094839C3C@ChananPC>
References: <28258AE86B79416E8D5DBA3094839C3C@ChananPC>
Message-ID: <01c601cac55e$2a8509c0$7f8f1d40$@com>

> Hi There
> 
> Please help with the following problem.
> 
> 
> 
> with mailman I need to send a mail to the name of the mailing list, but
> its not going to the email on the list, I sent a mail to the list name
> for example, testlist at canit.co.za but im not getting the mail, do i
> need to send it from a specifiv account? what must i do?
> 
> thanks chanan

This depends on your list settings. Here are some of the common reasons why
mail doesn't reach a list when coming from a certain e-mail addres:

1. You are posting from a non-member e-mail address
2. You are posting from a moderated member's e-mail address and you have
your list configured to discard messages from moderated members.

I would check your list settings and make sure the e-mail address you are
posting from is either setup as an administrator or moderator or if you want
it subscribed as a member, make sure your moderation bit is set to off for
that particular address.

Regards,
Brian Carpenter
Mailmanhost.com
EMWD.com



From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 17 00:13:19 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:13:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman
In-Reply-To: <28258AE86B79416E8D5DBA3094839C3C@ChananPC>
Message-ID: <PC195201003161613190390915b1ed9@msapiro>

Michael wrote:
>
>with mailman I need to send a mail to the name of the mailing list, but its not going to the email on the list, I sent a mail to the list name for example, testlist at canit.co.za but im not getting the mail, do i need to send it from a specifiv account? what must i do?


Gmail users will not receive copies of their own posts to lists. This
is a Gmail "feature". See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/2IA9>.

If this does not explain what's going on, see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mkawada at redhat.com  Wed Mar 17 01:42:10 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 09:42:10 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unclaimed action of mailman
In-Reply-To: <4B99DB8F.8040401@redhat.com>
References: <PC19520100311220305050025dcfbf9@msapiro>
	<4B99DB8F.8040401@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <4BA02562.8090804@redhat.com>

Hi Mark-san,

I found that there are many of files named like heldmsg-mailman-nnn.pck
in mailman's data/ directory. These are the notification mails that would be
sent to mailman at example.com when senddigests by cron fails, aren't they?

The reason why these emails sent to mailman at example.com is that is because
the senddigests fails, and the reason why these emails keep staying in that
directory(/data) is that they are all sent from non-list-member(root or 
mailman),
so can not be sent to the  mailing list(mailman mailing list this time) 
without
permission(pendding, accept, reject, discard). Is my understanding right?

Best Regards,

Masaharu Kawada wrote:
> Mark-san,
>
> Thank you very much for your quick response.
>
> I totally understood, and I should have been more careful about
> what exactly the admindb is. Thanks a million!
>
> Sincerely,
>
>   
>>   
>>     
>>>> The messages should be visible in the admindb web interface for the
>>>> mailman list.
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> Are the messages you mention that emails which sent to mailman at example.com?
>>> Could you please let me make sure that the admindb web interface is a page 
>>> titled like "Mailman mailing list Administration General Options Section",
>>> and the mail sent to mailman at example.com can be visible in somewhere on that
>>> page. Is this correct? If so I would like to know exactly where that emails are. 
>>> "Tend to pending moderator requests"?
>>>     
>>>       
>> The page titled "Mailman mailing list Administration General Options
>> Section" is part of the mailman list's admin (not admindb) interface.
>> The admindb interface is the page linked via the "Tend to pending
>> moderator requests" link on the admin pages.
>>
>> The admin pages have URLs that look like
>> http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/mailman/...
>>
>> The admindb interface is http://www.example.com/mailman/admindb/mailman
>>
>>
>>   
>>     
>>>> There should also be a large number of files in mailman's data/
>>>> directory with names like heldmsg-mailman-nnn.pck. Each of these
>>>> contains one held message. Also, depending on list settings, there may
>>>> be so many of these that the admindb CGI times out before it can
>>>> generate the summary page. In that case, you have to remove some, but
>>>> don't just rm them.
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> I will verify if such files are existed in mailman's data/ directory.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, is it possible to know/find where that emails are, if I
>>> get the output of dumpdb command executing against lists/mailman/config.pck?
>>>     
>>>       
>> No. There is nothing in the config.pck that tells you anything about
>> held messages. Information about the messages is in
>> lists/mailman/request.pck, but this is the same information that will
>> be presented much more readably on the admindb page
>>
>>   
>>     
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mkawada%40redhat.com
>   


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 17 01:49:40 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 17:49:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unclaimed action of mailman
In-Reply-To: <4BA02562.8090804@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010031617494005936a30e839@msapiro>

Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>
>I found that there are many of files named like heldmsg-mailman-nnn.pck
>in mailman's data/ directory. These are the notification mails that would be
>sent to mailman at example.com when senddigests by cron fails, aren't they?


Certainly the ones with timstamps about 12:00 on each day are, but
there could be others.


>The reason why these emails sent to mailman at example.com is that is because
>the senddigests fails, and the reason why these emails keep staying in that
>directory(/data) is that they are all sent from non-list-member(root or 
>mailman),
>so can not be sent to the  mailing list(mailman mailing list this time) 
>without
>permission(pendding, accept, reject, discard). Is my understanding right?


Yes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mkawada at redhat.com  Wed Mar 17 03:33:23 2010
From: mkawada at redhat.com (Masaharu Kawada)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 11:33:23 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unclaimed action of mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010031617494005936a30e839@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010031617494005936a30e839@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4BA03F73.40507@redhat.com>

Hi Mark-san,

Thank you very much for your response. I really appreciate it.

Best Regards,

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>   
>> I found that there are many of files named like heldmsg-mailman-nnn.pck
>> in mailman's data/ directory. These are the notification mails that would be
>> sent to mailman at example.com when senddigests by cron fails, aren't they?
>>     
>
>
> Certainly the ones with timstamps about 12:00 on each day are, but
> there could be others.
>
>
>   
>> The reason why these emails sent to mailman at example.com is that is because
>> the senddigests fails, and the reason why these emails keep staying in that
>> directory(/data) is that they are all sent from non-list-member(root or 
>> mailman),
>> so can not be sent to the  mailing list(mailman mailing list this time) 
>> without
>> permission(pendding, accept, reject, discard). Is my understanding right?
>>     
>
>
> Yes.
>
>   


From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Wed Mar 17 15:47:42 2010
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 16:47:42 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman chewing up resources
In-Reply-To: <PC19520100312082657012504afdc36@msapiro>
References: <PC19520100312082657012504afdc36@msapiro>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1003171639440.2721@data.home>

On Fri, 12 Mar 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> There is an issue that affects memory usage in the qrunners. They keep
> a cache of list objects in memory to reduce disk IO. The cache is
> supposed to free the space used by a list object when there are no
> more references to that object, but it turns out there is a
> self-reference in the list objects, so the cache simply grows until it
> holds a copy of each list.
>
> There are other issues in that large messages can cause the runners
> that handle it to grow, and Python's memory management is such that
> Python itself never gives freed memory back to the OS. Memory can be
> freed within Python and it will be available for reuse within that
> process, but it is not given back to the OS.
>
> I recommend disabling the list cache within the qrunners. This was done
> for the now defunct 2.2 branch, but has not been done on the 2.1
> branch.
>
> The attached Runner.patch.txt file contains a patch to do this. I
> suggest you try the patch and see if that helps.

Thanks for this.

I patched Mailman/Queue/Runner.py and the patch applied cleanly.  I even 
checked that the patch had applied.

I stopped and restarted Mailman.

But Runner.pyc wasn't updated.

I deleted Runner.pyc in order to make sure that the old one wasn't being 
used, but 17 hours on, Runner.pyc hasn't been recreated.

The system seems to be running fine from what I've seen, but I'm curious 
to know if the file I'm patched is in fact being used at all.

Geoff.


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 17 16:37:58 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 08:37:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman chewing up resources
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1003171639440.2721@data.home>
Message-ID: <PC195201003170837580718cca50408@msapiro>

Geoff Shang wrote:
>
>I patched Mailman/Queue/Runner.py and the patch applied cleanly.  I even 
>checked that the patch had applied.
>
>I stopped and restarted Mailman.
>
>But Runner.pyc wasn't updated.
>
>I deleted Runner.pyc in order to make sure that the old one wasn't being 
>used, but 17 hours on, Runner.pyc hasn't been recreated.
>
>The system seems to be running fine from what I've seen, but I'm curious 
>to know if the file I'm patched is in fact being used at all.


Assuming the file you patched is in the Mailman/Queue/ directory that
is actually being used by Mailman, You are getting the patched module.

This is a permissions issue. The qrunners do not have permission to
write Mailman/Queue/Runner.pyc. When Runner is imported, Python
detects that Runner.py is newer than Runner.pyc (or there is no
Runner.pyc) and loads and compiles Runner.py. It then attempts to
write Runner.pyc, but if it fails, it just goes on.

The Mailman/Queue/ directory should be Mailman's group, group writable
and SETGID, and all the files should be Mailman's group and group
writable.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at list.org  Thu Mar 18 15:25:38 2010
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:25:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
In-Reply-To: <20100310045109.GA26770@mail.incertum.net>
References: <20100220122123.GB28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B80159B.7060308@msapiro.net>
	<20100220182713.GF28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B804374.8070003@msapiro.net>
	<20100220205607.GG28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B8053D1.2070406@msapiro.net>
	<20100220221032.GI28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<20100221101520.GK28326@mail.incertum.net>
	<4B81A00F.7040702@msapiro.net>
	<20100310045109.GA26770@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <20100318102538.266ea86e@heresy>

On Mar 10, 2010, at 05:51 AM, Stefan Foerster wrote:

>Good news (kinda) - another list on that server just started to slow
>down, and this time, it is a very unimportant and small list (472
>members, 466 of them have mail delivery enabled), so I can take all
>the time in the world to try and debug this issue.

I agree with Mark that this sounds like a problem with the Python interpreter.
I just don't see what could be causing Mailman to slow down.  I think if you
want to continue to debug this, it will involve hacking SMTPDirect.py or
replacing it with a simpler but instrumented handler for the list in question.
Do you want to go down that route?  (Installing say Python 2.6.5 and
rebuilding Mailman might be an easier first step.)

>Do you think I can drop Barry a PM off-list and ask him for further
>advice if he doesn't read this? I'm really interested in debugging
>this, and as I said, this time I really don't care about the list
>delivery being slow.

I read this list, but usually just skim it and sometimes it can take a long
while to respond.

-Barry
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 836 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100318/27cd6891/attachment.pgp>

From krisj at signa-tek.com  Wed Mar 17 15:26:16 2010
From: krisj at signa-tek.com (Kris Johnson)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 08:26:16 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery Error
Message-ID: <000301cac5dd$cfdea640$6f9bf2c0$@com>

When a bounce occurs due to a bad email address, all my list members receive
an email stating "Delivery Error, Your message was not delivered
successfully." Then the original message is repeated.  Can I configure
mailman to only send this message to the administrator or not send the
message at all?  I am using version 2.14.12.cp3 inside cpanel.


From thomas.hartwig at gmail.com  Wed Mar 17 22:53:34 2010
From: thomas.hartwig at gmail.com (Thomas Hartwig)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:53:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discard notification problem
Message-ID: <4BA14F5E.9050700@gmail.com>

I am running some lists with mailman and I have made real good
experience. The problem which occurs now occasionally is that sometimes
messages become discarded silently. The "vette" log contains very small
information once a message is discarded. The discarding seems to happen
preferable with freemailer accounts like web.de or freenet located here
in germany.
My core problem is that the sender (which is subscribed or white listed)
is not notified by the discarding. Ok - this is what discarding means
actually, but I am wondering if there is a possibility to avoid
discarding in general or to get known why it happened. I have
investigated already some time in this issue but I am afraid I am a
little bit confused and lost in the code. So I have following questions:

1. Is there a global option to prefer rejecting over discarding?
2. Is there some kind of extended logging available to see the reasons
of discarding?
3. Is there a global option to get notified by discards?

Thanks
Thomas


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 18 16:12:45 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 08:12:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery Error
In-Reply-To: <000301cac5dd$cfdea640$6f9bf2c0$@com>
Message-ID: <PC195201003180812450640fd44472d@msapiro>

Kris Johnson wrote:

>When a bounce occurs due to a bad email address, all my list members receive
>an email stating "Delivery Error, Your message was not delivered
>successfully." Then the original message is repeated.  Can I configure
>mailman to only send this message to the administrator or not send the
>message at all?  I am using version 2.14.12.cp3 inside cpanel.


First see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/sYA9>.

That said, this should not be happening. Mailman should be sending
messages with Sender: and Errors-To: headers and most importantly
envelope from (Return-Path:) the LISTNAME-bounces at domain address. MTAs
should be sending Delivery Status Notifications (DSNs) to the envelope
from address. This should not go to the list.

Is your list anonymous. I.e. is anonymous_list on the General Options
page set to Yes causing posts to be sent out From: the list address?
Some broken MTAs will return DSNs to the From: address. This is wrong,
but there is nothing you can do about it other than set anonymous_list
to no.

Also, an MTA should not be sending a DSN From: the original recipient
address or any address other than something like mailer-daemon or
postmaster. These should be non-members and if you Hold non-member
posts, they should not go to the list without moderator approval
(Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> generic_nonmember_action =
Hold).

If you post one of the actual "Delivery Error" messages here, we may be
able to say more, but if there is some Mailman issue involved, it will
most likely have to be dealt with by your hosting provider.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 18 16:34:55 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 08:34:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discard notification problem
In-Reply-To: <4BA14F5E.9050700@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201003180834550453fd44467c@msapiro>

Thomas Hartwig wrote:
>
>1. Is there a global option to prefer rejecting over discarding?


No, but there are a few list settings.


>2. Is there some kind of extended logging available to see the reasons
>of discarding?


Not without hacking the code.


>3. Is there a global option to get notified by discards?


No.


There are only a few reasons why posts are 'silently' discarded. The
most likely one in your case is Content filtering - filter_content is
Yes and filter_action is discard. Set that to Hold.

Other possible reasons include:

The poster is a non-member listed in Privacy options... -> Sender
filters -> discard_these_nonmembers.

The poster is a non-member and Privacy options... -> Sender filters ->
generic_nonmember_action is discard.

Non-digest options - scrub_nondigest is Yes, the message's
Content-Type: is text/html and ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER is set to 0 in
mm_cfg.py.

The message matches a Privacy options... -> Spam filters ->
header_filter_rules rule with Discard action.

Note that if you want to see these things, it is much preferable to set
the action to Hold rather than Reject, at least for the non-member and
header_filter_rules actions. If you reject those, you are going to be
reflecting spam to innocent, forged From: addresses.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From unpublishednumber at gmail.com  Thu Mar 18 17:39:52 2010
From: unpublishednumber at gmail.com (LexIcon)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 12:39:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Archives page not updating
In-Reply-To: <PC1952010031415532405939716ab69@msapiro>
References: <PC1952010031415532405939716ab69@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4BA25758.60403@nc2600.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Then the recent posts are probably not in the
> archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox file, perhaps because of
> some permissions error. If that is the reason, they are probably all
> shunted and in the shunt queue. If so, you will find error messages
> and tracebacks in Mailman's error log and running bin/unshunt will
> probably archive the messages assuming the permissions or whatever
> issue has been fixed.

Ah! I was relying on check_perms and did not look directly at the error
logs.

Ok, so I ran...

chown -hR mailman private/

... and changed the owner of everything in there to the mailman user. I
then ran...

./unshunt

... which took a long time to process, and then I ran...

./arch listname

... which did not seem to have resolved the issue, so I ran...

[root at domain bin]# ./arch --wipe listname
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox

... which resulted in ...

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./arch", line 200, in ?
    main()
  File "./arch", line 177, in main
    shutil.rmtree(mlist.archive_dir())
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/shutil.py", line 155, in rmtree
    onerror(os.listdir, path, sys.exc_info())
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/shutil.py", line 153, in rmtree
    names = os.listdir(path)
OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname'

... and I checked the error logs again and found...

Feb 20 21:37:10 2010 (9826) Archive file access failure:
        /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox
[Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox'
Feb 20 21:37:10 2010 (9826) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13]
Permission denied:
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox'
Feb 20 21:37:10 2010 (9826) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose
    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 200, in
ArchiveMail
    self.__archive_to_mbox(msg)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 169, in
__archive_to_mbox
    mbox = self.__archive_file(afn)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 157, in
__archive_file
    return Mailbox.Mailbox(open(afn, 'a+'))
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox'

Feb 20 21:37:10 2010 (9826) SHUNTING:
1266730628.7653761+286a6674cf078ace752aad7c7525dadae0f85338

... so no March errors, and I'm still not getting anywhere.

- Lex


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 18 18:15:17 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:15:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Archives page not updating
In-Reply-To: <4BA25758.60403@nc2600.org>
Message-ID: <PC1952010031810151709064ca7089b@msapiro>

LexIcon wrote:

[...]
>... so no March errors, and I'm still not getting anywhere.


That appears to be almost an exact repost of
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-March/069102.html>
which was answered at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-March/069103.html>.

Did you see the answer?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lyn0927 at aol.com  Thu Mar 18 20:02:50 2010
From: lyn0927 at aol.com (lyn0927 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 15:02:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: help
In-Reply-To: <20100318083421.1da09017@heresy>
References: <8CC94656CA29957-3CAC-53DB@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com>
	<20100318083421.1da09017@heresy>
Message-ID: <8CC94E4BD76A2FD-D08-D243@Webmail-d108.sysops.aol.com>


 

 Please see the below message.  I need to figure out how to do this asap...

Thank you.


 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Warsaw <barry at list.org>
To: lyn0927 at aol.com
Sent: Thu, Mar 18, 2010 8:34 am
Subject: Re: help


On Mar 17, 2010, at 11:51 PM, lyn0927 at aol.com wrote:

>I just signed up for mailman.  When I use the "invite" section the following 
comes in the subject line.  Below is a sample:
>
>confirm 913c4d195a2fe17b131f4bdc2a5ac5247904cea1
>
>How can I change this to be something like "Makenzie is inviting you to her 
newsletter"???
>
>I need to do this right away...thanks.I am afraid that something like is in the 
subject line now will just get ignored.

This is a pretty standard confirmation message.  It's format allows people to
just hit "reply" in order to confirm their subscription.  It's not easily
changed without hacking the source code.  If you're interested in pursuing
that route, please contact mailman-users at python.org.

Cheers,
-Barry

 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 853 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100318/cb6f9b31/attachment.pgp>

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 19 15:42:40 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 07:42:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: help
In-Reply-To: <8CC94E4BD76A2FD-D08-D243@Webmail-d108.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC94656CA29957-3CAC-53DB@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com>	<20100318083421.1da09017@heresy>
	<8CC94E4BD76A2FD-D08-D243@Webmail-d108.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4BA38D60.1050105@msapiro.net>

On 3/18/2010 12:02 PM, lyn0927 at aol.com wrote:
> 
>> I just signed up for mailman.  When I use the "invite" section the following 
> comes in the subject line.  Below is a sample:
>>
>> confirm 913c4d195a2fe17b131f4bdc2a5ac5247904cea1
>>
>> How can I change this to be something like "Makenzie is inviting you to her 
> newsletter"???
>>
>> I need to do this right away...thanks.I am afraid that something like is in the 
> subject line now will just get ignored.


The way to do this is discussed in the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/kIA9>. It requires that you have access to the
Mailman system configuration on the server or that you can get your
hosting provider to do it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From drew.tenenholz at isid.org  Fri Mar 19 22:49:00 2010
From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:49:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Real or Fake Mailman message?
Message-ID: <p06240874c7c99ec7fd45@[192.168.201.53]>

Folks --

Is the following message a REAL mailman message?  I'm leaning towards 
yes, but then I'm going to know what to do about it....

It seems to be coming from a testing list that I use only rarely, and 
haven't touched in a long time.  The message is pretty much coming 
daily now.  I'm the only subscriber/owner/moderator though, and there 
is nothing the moderation queue.  I can't find anything with this 
subject line in the wiki.

-- Drew Tenenholz

At 3:15 PM -0500 3/12/10, mailman-owner at myserver.org wrote:
>X-Original-To: mailman-bounces at myserver.org
>Delivered-To: mailman-bounces at myserver.org
>Subject: Last autoresponse notification for today
>From: mailman-owner at myserver.org
>To: mailman-bounces at myserver.org
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 21:37:52 -0500
>X-BeenThere: mailman at myserver.org
>List-Id: ISID Mailman Testing List <mailman.myserver.org>
>X-ProMED-Id: 20100311.110389
>Sender: mailman-loop at myserver.org
>
>We have received a message from your address
>`mailman-bounces at promed.isid.org' requesting an automated response
>from the Mailman at promed.isid.org mailing list.  We have seen 10 such
>messages from you today.  In order to avoid problems such as mail
>loops between email robots, we will not be sending you any further
>email responses today.  Please try again tomorrow.
>
>If you believe this message is in error, or if you have any questions,
>please contact the list owner at mailman-owner at promed.isid.org.

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 19 23:58:42 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:58:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Real or Fake Mailman message?
In-Reply-To: <p06240874c7c99ec7fd45@[192.168.201.53]>
Message-ID: <PC19520100319155842077877a697b4@msapiro>

Drew Tenenholz wrote:
>
>Is the following message a REAL mailman message?  I'm leaning towards 
>yes, but then I'm going to know what to do about it....


Yes it is. It is based on the nomoretoday.txt template and it is sent
when some kind of autoresponse would have been sent, but we've already
sent MAX_AUTORESPONSES_PER_DAY to that user in this day.

Autoresponses are things like 'your post is held' notifications and all
the messages configured in the Auto-responder Section of the admin
interface.


>It seems to be coming from a testing list that I use only rarely, and 
>haven't touched in a long time.  The message is pretty much coming 
>daily now.  I'm the only subscriber/owner/moderator though, and there 
>is nothing the moderation queue.  I can't find anything with this 
>subject line in the wiki.
>
>-- Drew Tenenholz
>
>At 3:15 PM -0500 3/12/10, mailman-owner at myserver.org wrote:
>>X-Original-To: mailman-bounces at myserver.org
>>Delivered-To: mailman-bounces at myserver.org
>>Subject: Last autoresponse notification for today
>>From: mailman-owner at myserver.org
>>To: mailman-bounces at myserver.org
>>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 21:37:52 -0500
>>X-BeenThere: mailman at myserver.org
>>List-Id: ISID Mailman Testing List <mailman.myserver.org>
>>X-ProMED-Id: 20100311.110389
>>Sender: mailman-loop at myserver.org
>>
>>We have received a message from your address
>>`mailman-bounces at promed.isid.org' requesting an automated response
>>from the Mailman at promed.isid.org mailing list.  We have seen 10 such
>>messages from you today.  In order to avoid problems such as mail
>>loops between email robots, we will not be sending you any further
>>email responses today.  Please try again tomorrow.
>>
>>If you believe this message is in error, or if you have any questions,
>>please contact the list owner at mailman-owner at promed.isid.org.


I think you have an address loop somewhere in the configuration of your
mailman at promed.isid.org site list. That is the list that is involved.
Or, possibly it's an undeliverable address in owner or moderator of
that list.

If 'myserver.org' is not 'promed.isid.org', then check the host_name on
the General Options page of the mailman list, and if it's not
'promed.isid.org', then the message may originate on another server.
Look at the Received: headers.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From U.Baumbach at web.de  Fri Mar 19 18:57:07 2010
From: U.Baumbach at web.de (Uwe Baumbach)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:57:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuration Change Log for list owner actions?
Message-ID: <4BA3BAF3.9080801@web.de>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi there,

has mailman any log or other mechanism to store changes in list
configuration by list owners?

Are there suggestions how to achive this with add-ons?

Our goal is to support admin group members to follow actions of the
others... or at least (as an site admin) to respond to their questions
in critical situations.

THX.

Uwe (Baumbach)
U.Baumbach at web.de

- -- 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAkujuvMACgkQFEbayCH8zXn0OwCeNrXG+uimbLYBwNchntHJd1JV
mtUAoNlRhofWvLHng7dCxRWIkPLQRYhf
=+Kik
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 20 16:12:52 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 08:12:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuration Change Log for list owner actions?
In-Reply-To: <4BA3BAF3.9080801@web.de>
Message-ID: <PC1952010032008125209849047e10c@msapiro>

Uwe Baumbach wrote:
>
>has mailman any log or other mechanism to store changes in list
>configuration by list owners?


No. (except that obviously, it does save the changed configuration, but
it doesn't track the changes)


>Are there suggestions how to achive this with add-ons?
>
>Our goal is to support admin group members to follow actions of the
>others... or at least (as an site admin) to respond to their questions
>in critical situations.


Before any changes are made, do

 bin/dumpdb lists/LISTNAME/config.pck > base_config

Then do

 bin/dumpdb lists/LISTNAME/config.pck | diff -u base_config -

to see changes.

Or possibly capture the http POST transactions to the list admin web
page in your web server or on the wire.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rajeeth_007 at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 20 17:32:13 2010
From: rajeeth_007 at hotmail.com (Rajeeth S)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:32:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] need help
Message-ID: <BAY116-W1402DFD3AEE887690C5808C2290@phx.gbl>


Hey I created a mailing list.  The list automaticaly sent a welcome message to my clients.  (i didn't want this)  this is the default setting.  I think this should be changed in the future versions of mailman. 

Is there a way to cancel these welcome messages before my clients see them.?

Thank You
Raj.
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Take your contacts everywhere
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712959

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 21 16:18:05 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 08:18:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] need help
In-Reply-To: <BAY116-W1402DFD3AEE887690C5808C2290@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC19520100321081805098434a2de9d@msapiro>

Rajeeth S wrote:
>
>Hey I created a mailing list.  The list automaticaly sent a welcome message to my clients.  (i didn't want this)  this is the default setting.  I think this should be changed in the future versions of mailman. 


I think it is the appropriate default.


>Is there a way to cancel these welcome messages before my clients see them.?


Why do you not want your clients to get the welcome message? If you
think the message is inappropriate, you can edit the template via the
list admin GUI "Edit the public HTML pages and text files" link.

And yes, I assume you are using the admin Mass Subscription page to add
members. There is a "Send welcome messages to new subscribees?" radio
button on that page.

If you mean "cancel" the ones already sent, no, you can't do that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at list.org  Mon Mar 22 20:31:21 2010
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:31:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Temporary wiki.list.org outage
Message-ID: <20100322153121.452e56e7@heresy>

Hi folks,

wiki.list.org may experience some short-term outages as the fine folks at
Contegix attempt to upgrade our instance.  They originally tried to do it over
the weekend, but had some troubles and now want to attempt it again during
weekday hours.

Thanks,
-Barry
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 836 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100322/c6f6d43f/attachment.pgp>

From mark at bish.net  Mon Mar 22 18:05:27 2010
From: mark at bish.net (Mark Bishop)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 13:05:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PDFs in .mht file
Message-ID: <20100322130527.gor4e13ms0oksok8@www.bish.net>

We send pdfs as attachments to a mailman listserv and our PDFs get  
scrubbed and saved as .mht attachments.  However, we have tried  
opening the .mht and all we see in the MIME email is the ASCII dump of  
the pdf attachments and the correct Content-Type: application/pdf.

I've tried the unmht extension in Firefox, as well as IE7 but we  
cannot recover the PDFs.  Am I mangling the scrubber config or doing  
something incorrectly?

From anne.lavin at gmail.com  Mon Mar 22 18:43:03 2010
From: anne.lavin at gmail.com (Anne LaVin)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 13:43:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] put a list user into automated bounce processing
 from the command line?
Message-ID: <4BA7AC27.3000709@gmail.com>

Hey, mailman gang - longtime listener, first-time caller, here.

I run a whole bunch of mailman lists (several hundred; and they're on
a private server on which I have full root access as needed, yay) and
have automatic bounce processing turned on for pretty much all the
lists.  And, mostly, it works beautifully.

But every now and then I get a list member whose deliveries start (and
keep) bouncing, but whose mail host sends unrecognizable bounces.

I would very much like to find a way (command-line is fine) to start
those list members' accounts off into the automated bounce processing
system somehow; in other words, I want to change their status to
"nomail-because-of-bounces" and I want the rest of the automated
system to know that that account is now starting down the path to
account removal and act accordingly, without requiring further action
from me, just as it would have if the bounces had been processed by
the system in the first place.

(If I change the user's status via the web interface as admin, they
get "nomail-because-of-admin" status and then they just sit around on
the lists forever, or I have to remember sometime later to remove
them, and that's just annoying.  So please don't suggest that route, I
can always do that if nothing else works!)

I think I can figure out enough Python (Python newbie, would prefer to
stay that way, thank you, I have enough stuff cluttering up my brain
already) to do something using "withlist" to change an account to the
"nomail-because-of-bounces" state, but I don't know where to look or
what to do to get the automated bounce thingy to notice them.  (I am
assuming that there must be more state associated with the user than
just their nomail status, as there's the whole date-related logic of
how many times they've been contacted, did a response fail to come
back to the system's messages, etc.  I just don't know where all of
that state lives, and/or whether I can get at it from the outside,
somehow.)

I tried to find stuff in the list archives about this, but so far have
failed (I have lousy search karma.)  Surely someone else has this
problem and has come up with a way to do something like this?

Thanks for any pointers,

Anne

From davids at netfriends.com  Mon Mar 22 18:08:29 2010
From: davids at netfriends.com (David Scarborough)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 13:08:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MailMan product question
Message-ID: <32F567756BC6D24F994CBCCA92EB828402101C5B@RAVINE.netfriends.com>

Hi,

 

We have an organization with a need for a mailing list manager.  Their
desire is to have something that allows them to enter a contact name and
a contact email address.  Most systems we have reviewed only show email
addresses so deciphering who is actually on the list is impossible.  I
realize that users can subscribe/unsubscribe by email but this is not
what they need. Does Mailman manage lists with contact name AND email
address?  I could not tell easily from the product information.

 

Thanks!

 

All the best,

David

 

David Scarborough  
Net Friends, Inc * SciMed Solutions, Inc * 327 W Main St * Durham, NC
27701
Ph 919-680-3763 * Fax 919-680-3377 * eFax 866-329-0644 
www.netfriends.com <http://www.netfriends.com/>
www.scimedsolutions.com <http://www.scimedsolutions.com/> 

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 23 15:34:32 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 07:34:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MailMan product question
In-Reply-To: <32F567756BC6D24F994CBCCA92EB828402101C5B@RAVINE.netfriends.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201003230734320875e45560cb@msapiro>

David Scarborough wrote:
>
>We have an organization with a need for a mailing list manager.  Their
>desire is to have something that allows them to enter a contact name and
>a contact email address.  Most systems we have reviewed only show email
>addresses so deciphering who is actually on the list is impossible.  I
>realize that users can subscribe/unsubscribe by email but this is not
>what they need. Does Mailman manage lists with contact name AND email
>address?  I could not tell easily from the product information.


Mailman keeps the "real name" and email address for each list member.
See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/YoA9>.

However, Mailman does very little with this name. It is displayed
various places, but we would need to know more detail about why you
want Mailman to track the name to be able to say if Mailman does what
you want.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Mar 23 16:00:09 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 00:00:09 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  MailMan product question
In-Reply-To: <32F567756BC6D24F994CBCCA92EB828402101C5B@RAVINE.netfriends.com>
References: <32F567756BC6D24F994CBCCA92EB828402101C5B@RAVINE.netfriends.com>
Message-ID: <87wrx3gk1y.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

David Scarborough writes:

 > Does Mailman manage lists with contact name AND email address?  I
 > could not tell easily from the product information.

Mostly, yes.  It is possible to associate a full name with an email
address in a Mailman list.  For example, when doing a "mass subscribe"
you can enter subscriber information in the form

    J. Valued Member <j.v.member at his.place.net>

and both the name and the address are displayed in the membership list
interface.  It is also possible to enter the name into the membership
in various other ways, and I believe that Mailman will pick out the
name from the "From" header field in by-email subscriptions, if it is
present.

However, name information is "second class": subscribers are ordered
by address, not by name.  Getting access to a list sorted by name is
not terribly hard if you have any system admin experience at all, but
it's not yet trivial, and it does require direct login access to the
Mailman host, with appropriate level of privilege.  Also, there is no
way to enforce entry of a name with new subscriber's address.

Mailman 3 will make fulfilling this kind of requirement much easier,
but it's still several months from being production-ready.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Mar 23 16:06:54 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 00:06:54 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] put a list user into automated bounce processing
 from the command line?
In-Reply-To: <4BA7AC27.3000709@gmail.com>
References: <4BA7AC27.3000709@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87vdcngjqp.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Anne LaVin writes:

 > But every now and then I get a list member whose deliveries start (and
 > keep) bouncing, but whose mail host sends unrecognizable bounces.
 > 
 > I would very much like to find a way (command-line is fine) to start
 > those list members' accounts off into the automated bounce processing
 > system somehow; in other words, I want to change their status to
 > "nomail-because-of-bounces" and I want the rest of the automated
 > system to know that that account is now starting down the path to
 > account removal and act accordingly, without requiring further action
 > from me, just as it would have if the bounces had been processed by
 > the system in the first place.

This is probably not feasible, as you have stated it.  If the bounce
is not recognized the first time around, it won't be recognized the
next time, either.  In other words, you know such a bounce when you
see one, but Mailman doesn't -- it needs your help.  So you can't just
start the process; you have to help Mailman out on every unrecognized
bounce.

What needs to be done is to teach Mailman to recognize the previously
unrecognizable. :-)  I don't know how to do it myself, so I think your
best bet is to file a bug with the unrecognized bounces so that they
can become recognized.


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 23 16:46:12 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 08:46:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] put a list user into automated bounce
	processingfrom the command line?
In-Reply-To: <87vdcngjqp.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC195201003230846120593105b309d@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Anne LaVin writes:
>
> > But every now and then I get a list member whose deliveries start (and
> > keep) bouncing, but whose mail host sends unrecognizable bounces.
> > 
> > I would very much like to find a way (command-line is fine) to start
> > those list members' accounts off into the automated bounce processing
> > system somehow; in other words, I want to change their status to
> > "nomail-because-of-bounces" and I want the rest of the automated
> > system to know that that account is now starting down the path to
> > account removal and act accordingly, without requiring further action
> > from me, just as it would have if the bounces had been processed by
> > the system in the first place.
>
>This is probably not feasible, as you have stated it.


Actually, it is if I understand correctly. See the script at
<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/set_nomail.py> (mirrored at
<http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~msapiro/scripts/set_nomail.py>).

If you set a member to "no mail by bounce" with this script, they will
then be send the normal bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings messages at
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval and eventually be removed.

However, if you do as Stephen suggests and file a bug with the
unrecognized bounce attached or just send it to me, I'll try to
recognize it in the next release.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Mar 23 17:07:32 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:07:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PDFs in .mht file
In-Reply-To: <20100322130527.gor4e13ms0oksok8@www.bish.net>
Message-ID: <PC1952010032309073206254b1c64d1@msapiro>

Mark Bishop wrote:

>We send pdfs as attachments to a mailman listserv and our PDFs get  
>scrubbed and saved as .mht attachments.  However, we have tried  
>opening the .mht and all we see in the MIME email is the ASCII dump of  
>the pdf attachments and the correct Content-Type: application/pdf.


Mailman is not Listserv[1].

I'm not sure from your description, but it seems that what is happening
is the PDF is embedded in or attached to an HTML part and the entire
HTML part is being sanitized and saved as a .mht attachment. If this
is the case, the problem is because the HTML is sanitized so what you
see in your browser is the raw HTML rather than the rendered HTML.
This is controlled by the Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py setting
ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER, but changing this to allow unescaped HTML in
the archive is not recommended for reasons explained in the
documention in Defaults.py.


>I've tried the unmht extension in Firefox, as well as IE7 but we  
>cannot recover the PDFs.  Am I mangling the scrubber config or doing  
>something incorrectly?


Something is not right, because the application/pdf part should be
separately stored with its own attachment link with a .pdf extension.

I can't say what the problem might be without knowing the Mailman
version and whether you filter content and if so, what the content
filtering settings are and probably without seeing the actual email.

Also, what is the text accompanying the link to the saved attachment?

And, is the list's scrub_nondigest set to Yes so that this affects all
messages?


[1] Please do not refer to Mailman lists as 'listservs'. Listserv(r) is
a registered trademark[2] owned by the developer of a particular email
list management product, and it shouldn't be used generically.

My personal interest in this is not to protect the Listserv(r)
trademark, but rather to avoid confusing Listserv(r) email list
management software with any other email list management software
including GNU Mailman of which I am a developer.

[2] <http://www.lsoft.com/corporate/trademark.asp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From thomas at ifi.uio.no  Tue Mar 23 21:10:56 2010
From: thomas at ifi.uio.no (Thomas Gramstad)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 21:10:56 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Forward to Facebook page and/or RSS feed?
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1003232106220.22970@leia.ifi.uio.no>

I have an announcement list where I would like to forward all
postings to a Facebook fan page. Is that possible?

Facebook fan pages have the possibility to incorporate RSS feeds,
so a more general question is, is is possible to feed a Mailman
mailing list into/as an RSS feed?

If that's not possible, is there another way to automatically
forward messages from a Mailman list to a Facebook fan page?

Thomas Gramstad
thomas at ifi.uio.no

From Rick.French at Kawartha.Biz  Tue Mar 23 20:46:46 2010
From: Rick.French at Kawartha.Biz (Rick.French)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 15:46:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] suggestion?
Message-ID: <F9DC8D5202274A10A9283E1723D3CBC8@LENOVO57E8EDEA>

Good Afternoon

 

Your software was recommended as a solution for my requirements. I am a
Realtor and I would like to be able to send out mass emails to the folks
that have asked to be kept up-to-date. I have tried to send to my list once
but apparently it was viewed as spam and most of the mail came back to me.
Your software was suggested as a package that would assist the handling of
the task. I did download it but it will not work with the windows s/w that I
use as my op system. 

 

Do you have any recommendations that might assist??

 

REALLY appreciate!!

 

Kind Regards

 

Rick French

 


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Mar 24 06:18:56 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 14:18:56 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  suggestion?
In-Reply-To: <F9DC8D5202274A10A9283E1723D3CBC8@LENOVO57E8EDEA>
References: <F9DC8D5202274A10A9283E1723D3CBC8@LENOVO57E8EDEA>
Message-ID: <87r5naguv3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Rick.French writes:

 > Your software was suggested as a package that would assist the
 > handling of the task. I did download it but it will not work with
 > the windows s/w that I use as my op system.

There are many ISPs/hosting providers that offer Mailman as a service.
There is a good chance that one you already use does provide it, and
if not, competent providers for the level of service you describe are
available at reasonable prices (10s of dollars per month).  However,
make sure the provider actually supports the product; many install a
host management system (cPanel and Plesk are common), and leave the
rest up to you.  This is not a good situation for a business to be in.

Note that Mailman by itself is not a customer relations management
package.  While many people successfully use it for announcements, as
you would like to, it is primarily designed for users to subscribe and
unsubscribe themselves.  While this has its attractions in your use
case, you may also someday want to use the data gathered for other
purposes (eg, figuring what kinds of subscribers actually use your
services; what kinds have the highest satisfaction rate; etc).
Mailman provides no support for that kind of thing.  The data
associated with subscribers is extremely limited: name, email address,
and Mailman-related options (many of which would be irrelevant for an
announce list like yours).  Also, Mailman provides no built-in support
for periodic mailings or forms, nor linkage of mailings to other
databases.

I suggest you do a web search for "customer relations management" as
well as investigating Mailman providers.


From hmasterson at modwest.com  Wed Mar 24 20:14:33 2010
From: hmasterson at modwest.com (Heather Masterson)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:14:33 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem sending one email to multiple lists
Message-ID: <4BAA6499.2060605@modwest.com>

Hi,

I have a customer that uses Mailman on their VPS (Virtual Private 
Server) running the Plesk Control Panel.  After a recent upgrade of 
Plesk, they can no longer send a single email to multiple lists.  
Supposedly, this worked prior to the upgrade.

For example, if they send a message to list1 at domain.com and 'CC' 
list2 at domain.com, only list1 recipients receive the email.  I was able 
to reproduce this behavior on a test VPS we have available here at our 
office.  I'm able to send to each test list individually but when I send 
to one list and 'CC' the other,  I only receive emails from the first list.

The mail server logs show the initial email going out to both list 
addresses so I'm not sure why one is being "dropped" after reaching 
mailman.   I experimented with the Mailman Privacy Options | Recipient 
Filters and set "Must posts have list named in destination (to, cc) 
field (or be among the acceptable alias names, specified below)? " to No 
for both of my test lists, but this didn't help resolve the issue. 
<http://lists.geekchk.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/test2-list/?VARHELP=privacy/recipient/require_explicit_destination>
I'd really appreciate any suggestions! 

-- 
Heather Masterson
Modwest Support Team
support at modwest.com
http://modwest.com/help/



From R.Gillman at nerc.ac.uk  Wed Mar 24 16:08:32 2010
From: R.Gillman at nerc.ac.uk (Richard Gillman)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:08:32 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman sends to smarthost not to list
Message-ID: <4BAA2AF0.8020400@nerc.ac.uk>

I'm having difficulty getting mailman with sendmail to work on a RedHat 
5 box.

First, I check that sendmail's prog mailer is working. I add an alias

test: "|/bin/logger -i -p local3.info test"

to my aliases file, restart sendmail, and send test an email

Mar 24 14:26:06 wwwtest sendmail[12555]: o2OEQ6Bi012555: from=root, 
size=48, class=0, nrcpts=1, 
msgid=<201003241426.o2OEQ6Bi012555 at wwwtest.xxx.uk>, relay=root at localhost

Mar 24 14:26:06 wwwtest sendmail[12556]: o2OEQ6AN012556: 
from=<root at wwwtest.xxx.uk>, size=358, class=0, nrcpts=1, 
msgid=<201003241426.o2OEQ6Bi012555 at wwwtest.xxx.uk>, proto=ESMTP, 
daemon=MTA, relay=localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]Mar 24 14:26:06 
wwwtest sendmail[12555]: o2OEQ6Bi012555: to=test at wwwtest.xxx.uk, 
ctladdr=root (0/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, 
pri=30048, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent 
(o2OEQ6AN012556 Message accepted for delivery)

Mar 24 14:26:06 wwwtest sendmail[12557]: o2OEQ6AN012556: 
to="|/bin/logger -i -p local3.info test", ctladdr=<test at wwwtest.xxx.uk> 
(51/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=30599, 
dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


Syslog contains

Mar 24 14:26:06 wwwtest logger[12558]: test

So it worked.


/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py contains

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = "wwwtest.xxx.uk"

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = "wwwtest.xxx.uk"

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'

#add_virtualhost('wwwtest.xxx.uk')

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

[root at wwwtest mail]#


I've a mailman list set up, with a few members, and the appropriate 
aliases are there.


mail -s test mailman at wwwtest.xxx.uk


/var/log/maillog contains


Mar 24 14:27:13 wwwtest sendmail[12565]: o2OERDl0012565: from=root, 
size=51, class=0, nrcpts=1, 
msgid=<201003241427.o2OERDl0012565 at wwwtest.xxx.uk>, relay=root at localhost

Mar 24 14:27:13 wwwtest sendmail[12566]: o2OERDDM012566: 
from=<root at wwwtest.xxx.uk>, size=364, class=0, nrcpts=1, 
msgid=<201003241427.o2OERDl0012565 at wwwtest.xxx.uk>, proto=ESMTP, 
daemon=MTA, relay=localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]Mar 24 14:27:13 
wwwtest sendmail[12565]: o2OERDl0012565: to=mailman at wwwtest.xxx.uk, 
ctladdr=root (0/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, 
pri=30051, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent 
(o2OERDDM012566 Message accepted for delivery)

Mar 24 14:27:13 wwwtest sendmail[12567]: o2OERDDM012566: 
to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman", 
ctladdr=<mailman at wwwtest.xxx.uk> (51/0), delay=00:00:00, 
xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=30608, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


Now things go wrong, mailman (or sendmail) forwards the mail to the site 
relay, mercury, which rejects it, user unknown. I _think_ it is mailman 
forwarding the mail because if it were sendmail, there would be a log 
entry of sendmail talking to the site relay.


Mar 24 14:27:14 wwwtest sendmail[12569]: o2OEREo5012569: 
from=<mailman-bounces at mercury.xxx.uk>, size=1084, class=-60, nrcpts=1, 
msgid=<mailman.6.1269440833.27154.mailman at mercury.xxx.uk>, proto=ESMTP, 
daemon=MTA, relay=localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]

Mar 24 14:27:14 wwwtest sendmail[12570]: o2OEREo5012569: 
to=<root at wwwtest.xxx.uk>, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=local, 
pri=139300, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

Mar 24 14:27:14 wwwtest sendmail[12572]: o2OERET3012572: 
from=<mailman-bounces at mercury.xxx.uk>, size=2625, class=-60, nrcpts=1, 
msgid=<mailman.8.1269440833.27154.mailman at mercury.xxx.uk>, proto=ESMTP, 
daemon=MTA, relay=localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]

Mar 24 14:27:14 wwwtest sendmail[12574]: o2OERET3012572: 
to=<mailman-owner at mercury.xxx.uk>, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, 
mailer=relay, pri=230625, relay=mercury.xxx.uk. [xxx.xxx.240.183], 
dsn=5.1.1, stat=User unknown

Mar 24 14:27:14 wwwtest sendmail[12574]: o2OERET3012572: o2OERET3012574: 
DSN: User unknown

Mar 24 14:27:14 wwwtest sendmail[12574]: o2OERET3012574: 
to=<mailman-bounces at mercury.xxx.uk>, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, 
mailer=relay, pri=30000, relay=mercury.xxx.uk. [xxx.xxx.240.183], 
dsn=5.1.1, stat=User unknown

Mar 24 14:27:14 wwwtest sendmail[12574]: o2OERET3012574: o2OERET4012574: 
return to sender: User unknown

Mar 24 14:27:14 wwwtest sendmail[12574]: o2OERET4012574: to=root, 
delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=local, pri=30000, dsn=2.0.0, 
stat=Sent


This appears in the relay logs at the same time.


Mar 24 14:27:14 mercury sendmail[19882]: o2OEREiM019882: 
<mailman-owner at mercury.xxx.uk>... User unknown

Mar 24 14:27:14 mercury sendmail[19882]: o2OEREiM019882: 
from=<mailman-bounces at mercury.xxx.uk>, size=2851, class=0, nrcpts=0, 
proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=wwwtest [xxx.xxx.240.139]

Mar 24 14:27:14 mercury sendmail[19882]: o2OEREiO019882: 
<mailman-bounces at mercury.xxx.uk>... User unknown

Mar 24 14:27:14 mercury sendmail[19882]: o2OEREiO019882: from=<>, 
size=0, class=0, nrcpts=0, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=wwwtest 
[xxx.xxx.240.139]


the site relay is configured in sendmail.cf in the DS parameter (smart 
host).


Anyone got an idea of what I'm doing wrong?


tia, Dick

-- 
Richard Gillman
IST UNIX Systems Group, Maclean Building, Wallingford OX10 8BB
Tel: 01491 - 692 339
Fax: 01491 - 692 424


From ricardobarbosams at yahoo.com.br  Thu Mar 25 04:14:37 2010
From: ricardobarbosams at yahoo.com.br (Ricardo Barbosa)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 23:14:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem migration mailman
Message-ID: <4BAAD51D.7020502@yahoo.com.br>

Hi

I am configuring migrating from one server postfix with courier to a 
server with postfix and dovecot. I'm also trying to migrate the mailman 
who currently works in the postfix server I have the following 
configuration:

myhostname = mail.dominio.com
mydomain = dominio.com
myorigin = $mydomain
mydestination = localhost, $myhostname
relayhost =
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8, 192.168.0.0/16 10.1.4.0/24 201.90.175.48/28, 
10.0.0.0/24
mailbox_size_limit = 0
recipient_delimiter = +
inet_interfaces = all

# for mailman
owner_request_special = no
recipient_delimiter = +
alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases

virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_forwardings.cf, 
mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_email2email.cf, 
hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
virtual_mailbox_domains = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_domains.cf
virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_mailboxes.cf
virtual_transport = dovecot
virtual_mailbox_base = /mnt/maildir
virtual_uid_maps = static:1001
virtual_gid_maps = static:1001

I copied the directories of the mailman date, archives and lists the 
current server to the new facility and issued the following commands

# cd /var/lib/mailman
# bin/genaliases
# bin/withlist -a -l -r fix_url

with that lists the current server appear in the web interface and 
command execution "bin/list_lists" but when I try to send an email to 
the list in the logs of postfix and get a bounce message "user unknown"

Att.


__________________________________________________
Fa?a liga??es para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger 
http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ 


From pam at gatheringwaters.org  Wed Mar 24 20:11:52 2010
From: pam at gatheringwaters.org (Pam Foster Felt)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 14:11:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] tech question
Message-ID: <20100324193621.73393FDAA@mail.python.org>

Hi there,

We use your great list serve software to run a list that's 
valued.  We are changing our email host (to Google Apps) and recently 
changed the MS record associated with our domain name, 
gatheringwaters.org.  Do I need to do anything to our mailman acct 
and list serve to ensure it will still work?

Thanks,
Pam

Pam Foster Felt
Outreach Director
Gathering Waters Conservancy
211 S. Paterson, Suite 270
Madison, WI 53703
608-251-9131x11
pam at gatheringwaters.org

We help people protect the places that make Wisconsin special.

P.S. What are you doing this weekend?  Get Outside! Visit 
www.gatheringwaters.org/parade for a list of land trust field trips 
and work days.

P.P.S.  Be a Fan! Join us on facebook for fun updates about Wisconsin 
land conservation.

From connie at flisign.com  Wed Mar 24 19:06:17 2010
From: connie at flisign.com (Connie)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 11:06:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List-Serv for Nonprofit
Message-ID: <000001cacb7c$b4096be0$1c1c43a0$@com>

To Whom It May Concern:

 

My name is Connie Lewsadder and I am on the steering committee for the

Josephine County Nonprofit Network. The network supports nonprofits that

sign up with us. We provide seminars and networking meetings for the
nonprofits.

We have about 85 nonprofit e-mails and when one has a message or an
announcement,

it is sent out to the network by me.

 

We have been in existence now for almost 2 years and we know the time has
come for

a list-serv. People have directed me to your website. Is there anyway you
could accommodate 

us on this?

 

Thank You.Connie

 

Connie Lewsadder

Assistant to Hyla Lipson

Fiberoptic Lighting, Inc.

950 S.E. M Street

Grants Pass, OR  97526

PH: (541) 476-6900

(800) 543-2533  FAX: (541) 476-0796

 <mailto:connie at flisign.com> connie at flisign.com

 

 Company Website:

 <http://www.flisign.com> www.flisign.com

 

Fiberoptic Lighting, Inc. is

HUBZone Certified.

 

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 25 15:28:32 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 07:28:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem sending one email to multiple lists
In-Reply-To: <4BAA6499.2060605@modwest.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201003250728320421126b7485@msapiro>

Heather Masterson wrote:
>
>The mail server logs show the initial email going out to both list 
>addresses so I'm not sure why one is being "dropped" after reaching 
>mailman.   I experimented with the Mailman Privacy Options | Recipient 
>Filters and set "Must posts have list named in destination (to, cc) 
>field (or be among the acceptable alias names, specified below)? " to No 
>for both of my test lists, but this didn't help resolve the issue. 
><http://lists.geekchk.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/test2-list/?VARHELP=privacy/recipient/require_explicit_destination>
>I'd really appreciate any suggestions! 


require_explicit_destination only comes into play if the list not in
To: or Cc: which is not the case here. Have you tried putting both
list addresses in To:? I assume you've checked and the message is not
held for approval by the Cc: list.

Based on your description, I think this must be a new Plesk Mailman
feature or bug. Please see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/tIA9>.

You might also check Mailman's vette log to see if anything is logged
about these messages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at list.org  Thu Mar 25 15:46:04 2010
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 10:46:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wiki scheduled downtime
In-Reply-To: <20100301222424.09684da6@freewill.wooz.org>
References: <20100301222424.09684da6@freewill.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <20100325104604.4a1ab3bb@heresy>

On Mar 01, 2010, at 10:24 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:

>Just a quick announcement to let you know that wiki.list.org is scheduled to
>be off-line for upgrades starting at 2200 UTC on Friday, March 19, 2010.
>Total downtime is not known, as they will be upgrading us to the latest
>version and it's a big upgrade.

Our hosting provider thinks they may have solved the problems we were having
with the last upgrade, so they are going to try again.  Currently scheduled
for 2000 UTC today, please expect outages of up to one hour.

-Barry
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 836 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100325/9375a143/attachment.pgp>

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 25 15:56:43 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 07:56:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman sends to smarthost not to list
In-Reply-To: <4BAA2AF0.8020400@nerc.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC195201003250756430671997b0b4a@msapiro>

Richard Gillman wrote:
>
>Now things go wrong, mailman (or sendmail) forwards the mail to the site 
>relay, mercury, which rejects it, user unknown. I _think_ it is mailman 
>forwarding the mail because if it were sendmail, there would be a log 
>entry of sendmail talking to the site relay.
>
>
>Mar 24 14:27:14 wwwtest sendmail[12569]: o2OEREo5012569: 
>from=<mailman-bounces at mercury.xxx.uk>, size=1084, class=-60, nrcpts=1, 
>msgid=<mailman.6.1269440833.27154.mailman at mercury.xxx.uk>, proto=ESMTP, 
>daemon=MTA, relay=localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]


Mailman delivers the message by SMTP to the server listening at the
host and port defined by SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT. You haven't changed
the defaults in mm_cfg.py, so they are

SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
SMTPPORT = 0                                      # default from smtplib

(SMTPPORT = 0 tells smtplib to use the standard SMTP port - 25)

So as indicated by the above message, Mailman is delivering to your
local sendmail.


>Mar 24 14:27:14 wwwtest sendmail[12570]: o2OEREo5012569: 
>to=<root at wwwtest.xxx.uk>, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=local, 
>pri=139300, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


Which appears to deliver locally to root at wwwtest.xxx.uk.


>Mar 24 14:27:14 wwwtest sendmail[12572]: o2OERET3012572: 
>from=<mailman-bounces at mercury.xxx.uk>, size=2625, class=-60, nrcpts=1, 
>msgid=<mailman.8.1269440833.27154.mailman at mercury.xxx.uk>, proto=ESMTP, 
>daemon=MTA, relay=localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]
>
>Mar 24 14:27:14 wwwtest sendmail[12574]: o2OERET3012572: 
>to=<mailman-owner at mercury.xxx.uk>, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, 
>mailer=relay, pri=230625, relay=mercury.xxx.uk. [xxx.xxx.240.183], 
>dsn=5.1.1, stat=User unknown
>
>Mar 24 14:27:14 wwwtest sendmail[12574]: o2OERET3012572: o2OERET3012574: 
>DSN: User unknown


The above is a separate message from Mailman to
mailman-owner at mercury.xxx.uk which bounces for "User unknown". Do you
have an alias

mailman-owner: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"



>Mar 24 14:27:14 wwwtest sendmail[12574]: o2OERET3012574: 
>to=<mailman-bounces at mercury.xxx.uk>, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, 
>mailer=relay, pri=30000, relay=mercury.xxx.uk. [xxx.xxx.240.183], 
>dsn=5.1.1, stat=User unknown
>
>Mar 24 14:27:14 wwwtest sendmail[12574]: o2OERET3012574: o2OERET4012574: 
>return to sender: User unknown
>
>Mar 24 14:27:14 wwwtest sendmail[12574]: o2OERET4012574: to=root, 
>delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=local, pri=30000, dsn=2.0.0, 
>stat=Sent


And here it appears that the DSN bounced too and was sent to root
instead. Do you have an alias

mailman-bounces: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"


>This appears in the relay logs at the same time.
>
>
>Mar 24 14:27:14 mercury sendmail[19882]: o2OEREiM019882: 
><mailman-owner at mercury.xxx.uk>... User unknown
>
>Mar 24 14:27:14 mercury sendmail[19882]: o2OEREiM019882: 
>from=<mailman-bounces at mercury.xxx.uk>, size=2851, class=0, nrcpts=0, 
>proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=wwwtest [xxx.xxx.240.139]
>
>Mar 24 14:27:14 mercury sendmail[19882]: o2OEREiO019882: 
><mailman-bounces at mercury.xxx.uk>... User unknown
>
>Mar 24 14:27:14 mercury sendmail[19882]: o2OEREiO019882: from=<>, 
>size=0, class=0, nrcpts=0, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=wwwtest 
>[xxx.xxx.240.139]
>
>
>the site relay is configured in sendmail.cf in the DS parameter (smart 
>host).
>
>
>Anyone got an idea of what I'm doing wrong?


Do you have a full set of 10 aliases for each list

LIST:             "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post LIST"
LIST-admin:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin LIST"
LIST-bounces:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LIST"
LIST-confirm:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm LIST"
LIST-join:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join LIST"
LIST-leave:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave LIST"
LIST-owner:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner LIST"
LIST-request:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request LIST"
LIST-subscribe:   "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe LIST"
LIST-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe LIST"

It is also curious that all your outgoing messages have mailman
generated message IDs indicating they are not the original post with
Message-ID: <201003241427.o2OERDl0012565 at wwwtest.xxx.uk> but rather
they are Mailman notices of some kind.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 25 16:10:14 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 08:10:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem migration mailman
In-Reply-To: <4BAAD51D.7020502@yahoo.com.br>
Message-ID: <PC195201003250810140015997b089d@msapiro>

Ricardo Barbosa wrote:
>
>I am configuring migrating from one server postfix with courier to a
>server with postfix and dovecot. I'm also trying to migrate the mailman
>who currently works in the postfix server I have the following
>configuration:


courier/dovecot should make no difference:


[...]
>alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
>
>virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_forwardings.cf,
>mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_email2email.cf,
>hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>virtual_mailbox_domains = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_domains.cf
>virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_mailboxes.cf
>virtual_transport = dovecot
>virtual_mailbox_base = /mnt/maildir
>virtual_uid_maps = static:1001
>virtual_gid_maps = static:1001


Did this configuration work on the old server? It appears to be missing

virtual_alias_domains for the Mailman domains.


>I copied the directories of the mailman date, archives and lists the
>current server to the new facility and issued the following commands
>
># cd /var/lib/mailman
># bin/genaliases
># bin/withlist -a -l -r fix_url


If you have multiple virtual hosts, the above withlist/fix_url is not
appropriate as it will put every list in the
DEFAULT_URL_HOST/DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST domain. Also, whatever fix_url is
necessary needs to be done before genaliases.


>with that lists the current server appear in the web interface and
>command execution "bin/list_lists" but when I try to send an email to
>the list in the logs of postfix and get a bounce message "user unknown"


If you need more help, post the contents of mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 25 16:47:22 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 08:47:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List-Serv for Nonprofit
In-Reply-To: <000001cacb7c$b4096be0$1c1c43a0$@com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010032508472209842c84d42e@msapiro>

Connie wrote:
>
>My name is Connie Lewsadder and I am on the steering committee for the
>
>Josephine County Nonprofit Network. The network supports nonprofits that
>
>sign up with us. We provide seminars and networking meetings for the
>nonprofits.
>
>We have about 85 nonprofit e-mails and when one has a message or an
>announcement,
>
>it is sent out to the network by me.
>
> 
>
>We have been in existence now for almost 2 years and we know the time has
>come for
>
>a list-serv. People have directed me to your website. Is there anyway you
>could accommodate 
>
>us on this?


Mailman is not Listserv[1]

Please see our wiki page at <http://wiki.list.org/x/Hg> for some
Mailman hosting services.


[1] Please do not refer to Mailman lists as 'listservs'. Listserv(r) is
a registered trademark[2] owned  by the developer of a particular
email list management product, and it shouldn't be used  generically.

My personal interest in this is not to protect the Listserv(r)
trademark, but rather to avoid  confusing Listserv(r) email list
management software with any other email list management software 
including GNU Mailman of which I am a developer.

[2] <http://www.lsoft.com/corporate/trademark.asp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 25 17:16:42 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 09:16:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] tech question
In-Reply-To: <20100324193621.73393FDAA@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201003250916420109a9f40fd7@msapiro>

Pam Foster Felt wrote:
>
>We use your great list serve software to run a list that's 
>valued.  We are changing our email host (to Google Apps) and recently 
>changed the MS record associated with our domain name, 
>gatheringwaters.org.  Do I need to do anything to our mailman acct 
>and list serve to ensure it will still work?


Mailman is not Listserv[1]


The MX record in DNS for gatheringwaters.org mow goes to Google. This
is a problem. You will have to arrange somehow for the list mail to be
relayed back to the Mailman server.

If your lists are hosted by your old host, you may have to continue
that hosting arrangement, possibly with a new domain such as
lists.gatheringwaters.org.



[1] Please do not refer to Mailman lists as 'listservs'. Listserv(r) is
a registered trademark[2]  owned by the developer of a particular
email list management product, and it shouldn't be used  generically.

My personal interest in this is not to protect the Listserv(r)
trademark, but rather to avoid  confusing Listserv(r) email list
management software with any other email list management software 
including GNU Mailman of which I am a developer.

[2] <http://www.lsoft.com/corporate/trademark.asp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Dawn.CMLybrandCo at cfl.rr.com  Thu Mar 25 16:01:54 2010
From: Dawn.CMLybrandCo at cfl.rr.com (Dawn, C M Lybrand & Co.)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 11:01:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with setting up listserve?
Message-ID: <4BAB7AE2.7090603@cfl.rr.com>

Hello,

I have extensive experience using a listserve, but I've never been 
involved in the technical aspects of setting one up. I have now been 
"volunteered" for this task in a non-profit community organization and I 
am the only one who has ever even heard of a listserve there, so I got 
elected to figure out how to set one up. I assume that I would need some 
server space somewhere to do this, but beyond that I get a bit lost. 
Could you please point me in the right direction? I'm not a techie, but 
I would really like to learn how to do this. Are there free hosts out 
there for non-profit community organizations? Is there anyone who might 
be willing to help me get started? Our organization is called Canal 
Street Historic District -- we are trying to revitalize the downtown of 
our small, Florida city. This is no easy task when it's much easier for 
developers to simply move west of town and plop down a big box store!

I would greatly appreciate any help you could give me.

Dawn Moore

-- 
C M Lybrand & Co., LLC 

728 Canal Street 

New Smyrna Beach, FL 32168-6803 

Phone(386) 428-2315 

Fax  (386) 426-0335 

CIRCULAR 230 DISCLOSURE - To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, unless specifically indicated otherwise, any tax advice contained in this communication (or in any attachment) was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (1) avoiding tax related penalties or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax related transaction or matter addressed in this communication. 

CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION - This communication contains information that may be confidential and privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. You are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, printing, or copying of such communication by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply email (or by collect telephone call to 386-428-2315) and delete the communication.


From terri at zone12.com  Thu Mar 25 20:04:10 2010
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:04:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with setting up listserve?
In-Reply-To: <4BAB7AE2.7090603@cfl.rr.com>
References: <4BAB7AE2.7090603@cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <4BABB3AA.2030104@zone12.com>

Dawn, C M Lybrand & Co. wrote:
> I have extensive experience using a listserve, but I've never been 
> involved in the technical aspects of setting one up. I have now been 
> "volunteered" for this task in a non-profit community organization and I 
> am the only one who has ever even heard of a listserve there, so I got 
> elected to figure out how to set one up. I assume that I would need some 
> server space somewhere to do this, but beyond that I get a bit lost. 
> Could you please point me in the right direction? I'm not a techie, but 
> I would really like to learn how to do this. Are there free hosts out 
> there for non-profit community organizations? Is there anyone who might 
> be willing to help me get started? Our organization is called Canal 
> Street Historic District -- we are trying to revitalize the downtown of 
> our small, Florida city. This is no easy task when it's much easier for 
> developers to simply move west of town and plop down a big box store!

First off, "listserv" is a registered trademark for another product. 
Mailman is not listserv.

If you're looking for someone else to do the mailman hosting for you, 
there's a list of Mailman hosting services here: <http://wiki.list.org/x/Hg>

But if you're willing to host it yourself, you definitely can learn how 
to do it.  You'll need access to a server where you can set up the 
software, and you should be able to just follow the instructions in the 
installation manual:

http://list.org/mailman-install/index.html

From ricardobarbosams at yahoo.com.br  Thu Mar 25 20:30:08 2010
From: ricardobarbosams at yahoo.com.br (Ricardo Barbosa)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 12:30:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem migration mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003250810140015997b089d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <757598.26393.qm@web46302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

following my main.cf file server in production

------------------- main.cf --------------------------
myorigin = /etc/mailname
? myhostname = mail.dominio.com
? mydestination = localhost, localhost.localdomain, mail.dominio.com, dominio.com
? best_mx_transport = virtual
? relayhost = 
? mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8, 192.168.0.0/16 10.1.4.0/24
? 
? smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name
? bounce_template_file = /etc/postfix/bounce.cf
? biff = no
? append_dot_mydomain = no
? smtpd_use_tls = no
? inet_interfaces = all
? alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
? alias_database =
? 
? # Para mailman
? owner_request_special = no
? 
? virtual_alias_domains = 
? virtual_alias_maps = ??? proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_forwardings.cf,
? ??? ??? ??? mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_email2email.cf,
? ??? ??? ??? hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
? virtual_mailbox_domains = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_domains.cf
? virtual_mailbox_maps = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_mailboxes.cf
? transport_maps = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_transports.cf
? virtual_mailbox_limit_maps = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual_mailbox_limit_maps.cf
? virtual_mailbox_base = /mnt/maildir
? virtual_uid_maps = static:1000
? virtual_gid_maps = static:1000
? virtual_create_maildirsize = yes
? virtual_mailbox_extended = yes
? virtual_mailbox_limit_override = yes
? virtual_mailbox_limit_inbox = yes
? virtual_mailbox_lock = fcntl, dotlock
? virtual_maildir_limit_message = "Caixa de e-mail lotada."
? virtual_overquota_bounce = yes
? ? 
? home_mailbox = Maildir/
? message_size_limit =5000000
? recipient_delimiter = +
? maildrop_destination_recipient_limit = 1
? smtpd_sasl_local_domain = $mydomain
? smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
? broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
? 
? smtp_destination_recipient_limit = 100
? 
? smtpd_recipient_restrictions =??? permit_mynetworks, 
? ??? ??? ??? ??? permit_sasl_authenticated,
????? ??? ??? ??? permit
? 
? smtp_generic_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/generic


--------------- mm_cfg.py ----------------------------
"""This is the module which takes your site-specific settings.
>From a raw distribution it should be copied to mm_cfg.py.? If you
already have an mm_cfg.py, be careful to add in only the new settings
you want.? The complete set of distributed defaults, with annotation,
are in ./Defaults.? In mm_cfg, override only those you want to
change, after the
? from Defaults import *
line (see below).
Note that these are just default settings - many can be overridden via the
admin and user interfaces on a per-list or per-user basis.
Note also that some of the settings are resolved against the active list
setting by using the value as a format string against the
list-instance-object's dictionary - see the distributed value of
DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER for an example."""
from Defaults import *
MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'
PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/cgi-bin/mailman/private'
IMAGE_LOGOS???????? = '/images/mailman/'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'dominio.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST?? = 'mail.dominio.com'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'pt_BR'
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER??? = 0????????????? # Still used?
DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0
MTA='Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['dominio.com']
OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes
DEFAULT_ARCHIVE = Off


Att.



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Veja quais s?o os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 25 20:49:51 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 12:49:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem migration mailman
In-Reply-To: <757598.26393.qm@web46302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <757598.26393.qm@web46302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4BABBE5F.80001@msapiro.net>

On 3/25/2010 12:30 PM, Ricardo Barbosa wrote:
> following my main.cf file server in production


Generally, the output from "postconf -n" is preferable to posting the
entire main.cf.


[...]
>   virtual_alias_domains =


This needs to be

virtual_alias_domains = dominio.com

If that conflicts with virtual_mailbox_domains, you'll have to find some
other way to handle this, perhaps by taking this question to one of the
lists at <http://www.postfix.org/lists.html>, possibly
<http://listas.softwarelivre.org/mailman/listinfo/postfix-br/>

[...]
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'dominio.com'
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'mail.dominio.com'
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
[...]
> MTA='Postfix'
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['dominio.com']


These settings look good.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Mar 26 02:09:19 2010
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 10:09:19 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with setting up listserve?
In-Reply-To: <4BABB3AA.2030104@zone12.com>
References: <4BAB7AE2.7090603@cfl.rr.com>
	<4BABB3AA.2030104@zone12.com>
Message-ID: <87r5n7ga80.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Terri Oda writes:

 > If you're looking for someone else to do the mailman hosting for
 > you, there's a list of Mailman hosting services here:
 > <http://wiki.list.org/x/Hg>

Other things being equal, this is probably the route you should go if
you only want a mailing list.  I know that to a nonprofit even $10 a
month adds up, but it's worth far more than that in time and
reliability if you get real support.  One hint is to get the names of
some of the tech support people, and then check to see if they
participate in this list (mailman-users) or (even better?) the
developers' list (mailman-devel).  (IIRC, EMWD -- on the list above --
is one such; there may be others.  This is not an endorsement of EMWD,
just the facts, ma'am. ;-)

 > But if you're willing to host it yourself, you definitely can learn how 
 > to do it.  You'll need access to a server where you can set up the 
 > software, and you should be able to just follow the instructions in the 
 > installation manual:
 > 
 > http://list.org/mailman-install/index.html

This is not hard, as Terri says.  But there are a lot of issues that
come with running your own lists.  It can be a time sink; on the other
hand, it can also provide some basic experience that will serve you
very well when you decide to expand your web presence, even if you do
go with a hosting service.

From dunkel at calamus.net  Fri Mar 26 20:35:22 2010
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 20:35:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to install Mailman 2.1.13 on Debian Lenny
Message-ID: <4BAD0C7A.7010104@calamus.net>

Hi Mark Sapiro, hi folks.

I have asked my ISP to update my Debian Etch server to Debian Lenny to 
be able and use a higher version of Mailman (and other stuff). It's done 
now, but "aptitude install mailman" or "apt-get install mailman" won't 
give me more than v2.1.11.

After the Debian update, all not-English Mailman web pages on my server 
looked rather ugly because they still (or again) use the ISO-8859-x 
encodings instead of UTF-8.

I hoped to get at least Mailman v2.1.12 with the Debian update which 
brings better German localized files - but my ISP now informed me that 
this is kind of a restriction in the Debian philosophy which does not 
always support the current packages of applications.

They asked me to install Mailman v2.1.13 "manually" because this doesn't 
seem to be possible with apt-get right now.

Because I have not installed a single app myself without the help of the 
package manager aptitude, I am kind of stuck.

Can you give me a little howto?

PS: Yes, I would like to update to v2.1.13 first, then fix the UTF-8 
issue afterwards.

Best regards,
Ulf Dunkel

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Fri Mar 26 21:19:33 2010
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 20:19:33 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to install Mailman 2.1.13 on Debian Lenny
In-Reply-To: <4BAD0C7A.7010104@calamus.net>
References: <4BAD0C7A.7010104@calamus.net>
Message-ID: <20100326201933.GD2886@amyl.org.uk>

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 08:35:22PM +0100, Ulf Dunkel wrote:
> now, but "aptitude install mailman" or "apt-get install mailman" won't  
> give me more than v2.1.11.

You might find using the Squeeze or Sid versions
    http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=mailman
work. However, the usual caution applies of mixing versions.

I think a couple of people have used those, per this list's archive --
it might be worth searching for "backports" in the archive, or some
keywords around "debian" "2.1.13" or so-on.

> I hoped to get at least Mailman v2.1.12 with the Debian update which  
> brings better German localized files - but my ISP now informed me that  
> this is kind of a restriction in the Debian philosophy which does not  
> always support the current packages of applications.

I've usually found it to be a case of how busy the packager/maintainer is.

> They asked me to install Mailman v2.1.13 "manually" because this doesn't  
> seem to be possible with apt-get right now.

That's an option, too. Although it's something to remember to
maintain.

> Because I have not installed a single app myself without the help of the  
> package manager aptitude, I am kind of stuck.

"apt-cache search mailman"

> Can you give me a little howto?

Debian has good documentation. See also
    http://www.debian-administration.org 
for example.

-- 
``Fog In Channel: Continent Cut Off'' 
  (urban-legend newspaper headline, c. 1905)

From terri at zone12.com  Fri Mar 26 21:21:06 2010
From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 16:21:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to install Mailman 2.1.13 on Debian Lenny
In-Reply-To: <4BAD0C7A.7010104@calamus.net>
References: <4BAD0C7A.7010104@calamus.net>
Message-ID: <4BAD1732.8080001@zone12.com>



Ulf Dunkel wrote:
> They asked me to install Mailman v2.1.13 "manually" because this doesn't 
> seem to be possible with apt-get right now.
> 
> Because I have not installed a single app myself without the help of the 
> package manager aptitude, I am kind of stuck.
> 
> Can you give me a little howto?

There's one on list.org: http://list.org/mailman-install/index.html

It may not seem little from that table of contents, but the sections 
mostly quite short and simple.  I think it's bundled with the source, 
and you can get it in a few other formats if you prefer:

http://list.org/site.html

  Terri


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 27 03:05:33 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 19:05:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to install Mailman 2.1.13 on Debian Lenny
In-Reply-To: <4BAD1732.8080001@zone12.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201003261905330036bf405945@msapiro>

Terri Oda wrote:
>
>Ulf Dunkel wrote:
>> They asked me to install Mailman v2.1.13 "manually" because this doesn't 
>> seem to be possible with apt-get right now.
>> 
>> Because I have not installed a single app myself without the help of the 
>> package manager aptitude, I am kind of stuck.
>> 
>> Can you give me a little howto?
>
>There's one on list.org: http://list.org/mailman-install/index.html
>
>It may not seem little from that table of contents, but the sections 
>mostly quite short and simple.  I think it's bundled with the source, 
>and you can get it in a few other formats if you prefer:
>
>http://list.org/site.html


Terri is correct about Mailman not being particularly difficult to
install, but there are some caveats for upgrading a Debian
installation from source. When you run configure, you will probably
want to specify

  --prefix=/usr/lib/mailman --with-var-prefix=/var/lib/mailman
--with-username=list --with-groupname=list

You probably also need to specify --with-cgi-gid= and -with-mail-gid=.
These are respectively the group with which the web server invokes
CGIs (maybe www-data?) and the group with which the mail server will
invoke the wrapper, although Debian normally uses
postfix_to_mailman.py, but I think the group is important. Debian
patches the wrappers to accept any group with numerical gid < 100, but
without that patch, you need to get it right.

You might also look at other Debian patches at
<http://patch-tracker.debian.org/package/mailman>. In particular,
those Defaults.py.in patches in "01_defaults.debian.patch" are things
you probably want in mm_cfg.py to keep doing things the Debian way.

The alternative is to do a default source install per the manual and
then move your lists per the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/2oA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Sat Mar 27 03:44:39 2010
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan Foerster)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 03:44:39 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to install Mailman 2.1.13 on Debian Lenny
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003261905330036bf405945@msapiro>
References: <4BAD1732.8080001@zone12.com>
	<PC195201003261905330036bf405945@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20100327024438.GB15310@mail.incertum.net>

* Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
> >Ulf Dunkel wrote:
> >> They asked me to install Mailman v2.1.13 "manually" because this doesn't 
> >> seem to be possible with apt-get right now.
> >> 
> >> Because I have not installed a single app myself without the help of the 
> >> package manager aptitude, I am kind of stuck.
> >> 
> >> Can you give me a little howto?
[...]
> You might also look at other Debian patches at
> <http://patch-tracker.debian.org/package/mailman>. In particular,
> those Defaults.py.in patches in "01_defaults.debian.patch" are things
> you probably want in mm_cfg.py to keep doing things the Debian way.

I backported 2.1.13 to stable, pending upload at
http://debian.incertum.net/ within the next ten minutes.


Cheers
Stefan

From sandy at bmdmi.org  Fri Mar 26 18:55:36 2010
From: sandy at bmdmi.org (Sandy Cheves)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 12:55:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP
Message-ID: <000c01cacd0d$8d1c9510$a755bf30$@org>

Dear Friends,

 

I am a new user of Mailman and would like to print a list of our
subscribers.  I am told it is not possible and that I can only manually make
a list by going to each letter of the alphabet and write down the
information on each entry.  Surely there is a way to print a complete list
of subscribers.  How is that done?

 

Thanks a bunch.

 

In Christ siempre,

Sandy

S.P.(Sandy) Cheves  Missionary

Baptist Medical & Dental Mission International

11 Plaza Dr.

Hattiesburg, MS 39402

Phone: 601-544-3586

E-Mail:  <mailto:sandy at bmdmi.org> sandy at bmdmi.org 

Website:  <http://www.bmdmi.org> www.bmdmi.org

IN HONDURAS

Apartado Postal 10

Guaimaca, F.M. Honduras C.A.

Phone: 011-504-769-4134 (Hospital)

Cell: 011-504-9751-8153

   

 

 


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Mar 27 16:18:40 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 08:18:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP
In-Reply-To: <000c01cacd0d$8d1c9510$a755bf30$@org>
Message-ID: <PC195201003270818400703854fa0e7@msapiro>

Sandy Cheves wrote:
>
>I am a new user of Mailman and would like to print a list of our
>subscribers.  I am told it is not possible and that I can only manually make
>a list by going to each letter of the alphabet and write down the
>information on each entry.  Surely there is a way to print a complete list
>of subscribers.  How is that done?


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/aYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dunkel at calamus.net  Sun Mar 28 12:04:43 2010
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 12:04:43 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to install Mailman 2.1.13 on Debian Lenny
In-Reply-To: <20100327024438.GB15310@mail.incertum.net>
References: <4BAD1732.8080001@zone12.com>
	<PC195201003261905330036bf405945@msapiro>
	<20100327024438.GB15310@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <4BAF29BB.9030603@calamus.net>

Hi Stefan.

On 27.03.2010 03:44, Stefan Foerster wrote:
> * Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:
>>> Ulf Dunkel wrote:
>>>> They asked me to install Mailman v2.1.13 "manually" because this doesn't 
>>>> seem to be possible with apt-get right now.
>>>>
>>>> Because I have not installed a single app myself without the help of the 
>>>> package manager aptitude, I am kind of stuck.
>>>>
>>>> Can you give me a little howto?
> [...]
>> You might also look at other Debian patches at
>> <http://patch-tracker.debian.org/package/mailman>. In particular,
>> those Defaults.py.in patches in "01_defaults.debian.patch" are things
>> you probably want in mm_cfg.py to keep doing things the Debian way.
> 
> I backported 2.1.13 to stable, pending upload at
> http://debian.incertum.net/ within the next ten minutes.

Your backport helped me to easily install Mailman 2.1.13.

Well, now I'm still stuck with iso-8859-1 encoded interface pages, but 
that will have to wait until tomorrow. SUNDAY break. ;-)

TY

From bibekshrestha at gmail.com  Sun Mar 28 07:19:11 2010
From: bibekshrestha at gmail.com (Bibek Shrestha)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 11:04:11 +0545
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Autosubscribe email address
Message-ID: <868f3a741003272219y17244638rf521d55d6ce33a7@mail.gmail.com>

We're programmatically generating mailing lists
list1 at example.com list2 at example.com

We've also creating new email addresses
user1 at domain.com, user2 at domain.com

How is it possible to subscribe user1 at domain.com to list1 at example.com

Currently, i'm looking into send commands to list1-request at example.com with
  subscribe password nodigest address=user1 at domain.com

This however sends back a confirmation request, how can i subscribe
only the autogenerated user1 at domain.com without confirmation?
The rest of the normal users would still have to confirm before they
are subscribed.
--
Bibek Shrestha
bibekshrestha at gmail dot com
Blog: http://bibekshrestha.com.np
Twitter: http://twitter.com/bibstha

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar 28 16:20:28 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 07:20:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Autosubscribe email address
In-Reply-To: <868f3a741003272219y17244638rf521d55d6ce33a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952010032807202800005c469c1c@msapiro>

Bibek Shrestha wrote:

>We're programmatically generating mailing lists
>list1 at example.com list2 at example.com
>
>We've also creating new email addresses
>user1 at domain.com, user2 at domain.com
>
>How is it possible to subscribe user1 at domain.com to list1 at example.com


Presumably, you can run commands on the server. If so, see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/z4A9>. Look particularly at add_members and
sync_members.


>Currently, i'm looking into send commands to list1-request at example.com with
>  subscribe password nodigest address=user1 at domain.com
>
>This however sends back a confirmation request, how can i subscribe
>only the autogenerated user1 at domain.com without confirmation?
>The rest of the normal users would still have to confirm before they
>are subscribed.


If you don't have command access to the server (how are you creating
lists and users?), see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/uIA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Sun Mar 28 16:51:15 2010
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:51:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Autosubscribe email address
In-Reply-To: <868f3a741003272219y17244638rf521d55d6ce33a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <868f3a741003272219y17244638rf521d55d6ce33a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100328145114.GG2886@amyl.org.uk>

On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 11:04:11AM +0545, Bibek Shrestha wrote:
> We're programmatically generating mailing lists
> list1 at example.com list2 at example.com
> 
> We've also creating new email addresses
> user1 at domain.com, user2 at domain.com
> 
> How is it possible to subscribe user1 at domain.com to list1 at example.com
> 
> Currently, i'm looking into send commands to list1-request at example.com with
>   subscribe password nodigest address=user1 at domain.com
> 
> This however sends back a confirmation request, how can i subscribe
> only the autogenerated user1 at domain.com without confirmation?

add_members.

Or script something that takes advantage of the common parts (in your
example, the numeral), to create the list, and handle the
subscription:

 == untested ==
    #!/bin/sh
    set -e
    passwd=`apg -n1`
    newlist list${1} listadmin at example.com ${passwd}
    cat "user${1}@domain.com" > subscr
    add_members -r subscr list${1}
    rm subscr

as something quick and dirty. The assumptions are that urlhost and
emailhost settings will be fine, otherwise, specify them, with their
respective options. 

Create that as a script, and run it with the common variable (e.g. 1)
as its only arguement.

-- 
``In Lent she ate onion soup and gave up drink; but
  otherwise she must have drunk the maximum compatible
  with survival and sanity.''
  (Telegraph Obit of Jennifer Paterson, one of the 'Two Fat Ladies')

From dunkel at calamus.net  Mon Mar 29 07:04:43 2010
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 07:04:43 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Autosubscribe email address
In-Reply-To: <868f3a741003272219y17244638rf521d55d6ce33a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <868f3a741003272219y17244638rf521d55d6ce33a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BB034EB.7030304@calamus.net>

Hi Bibek.

On 28.03.2010 07:19, Bibek Shrestha wrote:
> We're programmatically generating mailing lists
> list1 at example.com list2 at example.com
> 
> We've also creating new email addresses
> user1 at domain.com, user2 at domain.com
> 
> How is it possible to subscribe user1 at domain.com to list1 at example.com
> 
> Currently, i'm looking into send commands to list1-request at example.com with
>   subscribe password nodigest address=user1 at domain.com
> 
> This however sends back a confirmation request, how can i subscribe
> only the autogenerated user1 at domain.com without confirmation?
> The rest of the normal users would still have to confirm before they
> are subscribed.

So you might want to set the relevant "Privacy options" to something 
like: subscribe_policy = "Require approval". See the mailing list's 
/privacy page for details.

HTH, Ulf Dunkel

From bibekshrestha at gmail.com  Sun Mar 28 19:49:55 2010
From: bibekshrestha at gmail.com (Bibek Shrestha)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 23:34:55 +0545
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Autosubscribe email address
In-Reply-To: <20100328145114.GG2886@amyl.org.uk>
References: <868f3a741003272219y17244638rf521d55d6ce33a7@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20100328145114.GG2886@amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <868f3a741003281049x63c6081dv1bc6978944e0647f@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks,
add_members is what i will be using for the moment.
Waiting for version 3.0 as I assume the REST api will allow this?

Cheers
--
Bibek Shrestha
bibekshrestha at gmail dot com
Blog: http://bibekshrestha.com.np
Twitter: http://twitter.com/bibstha



On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Adam McGreggor
<adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk> wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 11:04:11AM +0545, Bibek Shrestha wrote:
>> We're programmatically generating mailing lists
>> list1 at example.com list2 at example.com
>>
>> We've also creating new email addresses
>> user1 at domain.com, user2 at domain.com
>>
>> How is it possible to subscribe user1 at domain.com to list1 at example.com
>>
>> Currently, i'm looking into send commands to list1-request at example.com with
>> ? subscribe password nodigest address=user1 at domain.com
>>
>> This however sends back a confirmation request, how can i subscribe
>> only the autogenerated user1 at domain.com without confirmation?
>
> add_members.
>
> Or script something that takes advantage of the common parts (in your
> example, the numeral), to create the list, and handle the
> subscription:
>
> ?== untested ==
> ? ?#!/bin/sh
> ? ?set -e
> ? ?passwd=`apg -n1`
> ? ?newlist list${1} listadmin at example.com ${passwd}
> ? ?cat "user${1}@domain.com" > subscr
> ? ?add_members -r subscr list${1}
> ? ?rm subscr
>
> as something quick and dirty. The assumptions are that urlhost and
> emailhost settings will be fine, otherwise, specify them, with their
> respective options.
>
> Create that as a script, and run it with the common variable (e.g. 1)
> as its only arguement.
>
> --
> ``In Lent she ate onion soup and gave up drink; but
> ?otherwise she must have drunk the maximum compatible
> ?with survival and sanity.''
> ?(Telegraph Obit of Jennifer Paterson, one of the 'Two Fat Ladies')
>

From dimkar at thessaloniki.gr  Wed Mar 31 14:44:58 2010
From: dimkar at thessaloniki.gr (Dimitrios Karapiperis)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:44:58 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe from all mailing lists
Message-ID: <4BB343CA.9060700@thessaloniki.gr>

Hello

is there any way to unsubsctibe a user from all the mailing lists on a host?

I am utilizing Mialman's web scripts through my php files and I make any 
subscriptions and deletions
( I don't like the idea to execute shell scripts through php)

version
mailman-2.1.9-4.el5



Thanks in advance
Dimitrios Karapiperis



From dennis_gray at democratsabroad.org  Wed Mar 31 06:17:06 2010
From: dennis_gray at democratsabroad.org (Ozyank)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 21:17:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Mailman does not create a mailbox
Message-ID: <28091290.post@talk.nabble.com>


I am a newbie to Mailman so I hope that I am just omitting something very
basis. I have created new Mailman list and attempted to send mail to the
list. Unfortunately, the mail is bounced because there is no mailbox on the
mail server for the newly created list.

There are other working lists on the same server but I do not see a mailbox
or alias for those lists, unless I am looking in the wrong place.

Can anyone help?
-- 
View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Mailman-does-not-create-a-mailbox-tp28091290p28091290.html
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Wed Mar 31 15:52:36 2010
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:52:36 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe from all mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <4BB343CA.9060700@thessaloniki.gr>
References: <4BB343CA.9060700@thessaloniki.gr>
Message-ID: <20100331135236.GY26598@charite.de>

* Dimitrios Karapiperis <dimkar at thessaloniki.gr>:
> Hello
> 
> is there any way to unsubsctibe a user from all the mailing lists on a host?

Yes:
bin/remove_members --fromall dimkar at thessaloniki.gr

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 31 16:09:09 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:09:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman does not create a mailbox
In-Reply-To: <28091290.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520100331070909018715e36684@msapiro>

Ozyank wrote:
>
>There are other working lists on the same server but I do not see a mailbox
>or alias for those lists, unless I am looking in the wrong place.


Mailman list mail is not delivered to a mailbox. It is delivered by the
MTA to a wrapper program which invokes a script to queue the mail in
the appropriate Mailman queue.

Whether this is done via aliases or programatically depends on the
specific MTA and how it is set up. If Mailman is properly configured
and manual installation of aliases is required, bin/newlist will print
a list of the required aliases when it creates the list, and the web
create interface will mail a list of the required aliases to the owner
of the site (mailman) list.

So, what is the MTA, and what if anything is the setting for MTA in
mm_cfg.py?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 31 16:17:39 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:17:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe from all mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <4BB343CA.9060700@thessaloniki.gr>
Message-ID: <PC195201003310717390578f4ef79e9@msapiro>

Dimitrios Karapiperis wrote:
>
>is there any way to unsubsctibe a user from all the mailing lists on a host?
>
>I am utilizing Mialman's web scripts through my php files and I make any 
>subscriptions and deletions
>( I don't like the idea to execute shell scripts through php)


There is no way in Mailman 2.1 to unsubscribe a user from all lists via
the web interface.

Ralf has already replied with the appropriate remove_members command.
See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/uIA9> for more info on invoking
Mailman's commands from PHP, but if you don't want to do that, you
can't do what you want unless you can independently determine which
lists the user is a member of, or even what lists exist on the host.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Wed Mar 31 17:44:53 2010
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan Foerster)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 17:44:53 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribing on ARF reports
Message-ID: <20100331154453.GE25659@mail.incertum.net>

The subject pretty much sums it up: How do I unsubscribe morons^Wusers that
report list mail as spam instead of unsubscribing, causing ARF reports
from their mail service providers?

I know the python.org listmasters have some working Python scripts to
do that stuff (it's mentioned in Ralf's/Patrick's deliverability
slides), do you guys share?


Cheers
Stefan

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Wed Mar 31 17:49:37 2010
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 17:49:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribing on ARF reports
In-Reply-To: <20100331154453.GE25659@mail.incertum.net>
References: <20100331154453.GE25659@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <20100331154937.GH26598@charite.de>

* Stefan Foerster <cite+mailman-users at incertum.net>:
> The subject pretty much sums it up: How do I unsubscribe morons^Wusers that
> report list mail as spam instead of unsubscribing, causing ARF reports
> from their mail service providers?

Just do it :)

> I know the python.org listmasters have some working Python scripts to
> do that stuff (it's mentioned in Ralf's/Patrick's deliverability
> slides), do you guys share?

No scripts. It's merely reading the ARF

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From cite+mailman-users at incertum.net  Wed Mar 31 17:50:42 2010
From: cite+mailman-users at incertum.net (Stefan Foerster)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 17:50:42 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribing on ARF reports
In-Reply-To: <20100331154937.GH26598@charite.de>
References: <20100331154453.GE25659@mail.incertum.net>
	<20100331154937.GH26598@charite.de>
Message-ID: <20100331155042.GF25659@mail.incertum.net>

* Ralf Hildebrandt <Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de>:
> * Stefan Foerster <cite+mailman-users at incertum.net>:
> > I know the python.org listmasters have some working Python scripts to
> > do that stuff (it's mentioned in Ralf's/Patrick's deliverability
> > slides), do you guys share?
> 
> No scripts. It's merely reading the ARF

WTF?!? That must be a pretty low volume of ARFs.


arf arf
Stefan

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Wed Mar 31 18:01:01 2010
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 18:01:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribing on ARF reports
In-Reply-To: <20100331155042.GF25659@mail.incertum.net>
References: <20100331154453.GE25659@mail.incertum.net>
	<20100331154937.GH26598@charite.de>
	<20100331155042.GF25659@mail.incertum.net>
Message-ID: <20100331160101.GI26598@charite.de>

> > > I know the python.org listmasters have some working Python scripts to
> > > do that stuff (it's mentioned in Ralf's/Patrick's deliverability
> > > slides), do you guys share?
> > 
> > No scripts. It's merely reading the ARF
> 
> WTF?!? That must be a pretty low volume of ARFs.

Yep.
maybe two per week.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From dimkar at thessaloniki.gr  Wed Mar 31 18:32:13 2010
From: dimkar at thessaloniki.gr (=?UTF-8?B?zpTOt868zq7PhM+BzrnOv8+CIM6azrHPgc6xz4DOuc+Azq3Pgc63z4I=?=)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:32:13 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe from all mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <PC195201003310717390578f4ef79e9@msapiro>
References: <PC195201003310717390578f4ef79e9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4BB3790D.5020103@thessaloniki.gr>

O/H Mark Sapiro ??????:
> Dimitrios Karapiperis wrote:
>   
>> is there any way to unsubsctibe a user from all the mailing lists on a host?
>>
>> I am utilizing Mialman's web scripts through my php files and I make any 
>> subscriptions and deletions
>> ( I don't like the idea to execute shell scripts through php)
>>     
>
>
> There is no way in Mailman 2.1 to unsubscribe a user from all lists via
> the web interface.
>
> Ralf has already replied with the appropriate remove_members command.
> See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/uIA9> for more info on invoking
> Mailman's commands from PHP, but if you don't want to do that, you
> can't do what you want unless you can independently determine which
> lists the user is a member of, or even what lists exist on the host.
>
>   

Thanks Mark.

The unsubscribe from all lists feature exist on newer versions than 2.1.9?

Are there any rpms?

thanks again
Dimitrios

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 31 19:00:07 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:00:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe from all mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <4BB3790D.5020103@thessaloniki.gr>
References: <PC195201003310717390578f4ef79e9@msapiro>
	<4BB3790D.5020103@thessaloniki.gr>
Message-ID: <4BB37F97.6050702@msapiro.net>

On 3/31/2010 9:32 AM, ????????? ??????????? wrote:
> 
> The unsubscribe from all lists feature exist on newer versions than 2.1.9?


No.

Mailman 3 has a REST web interface that may support this, but MM 3 is
still in alpha development. There won't be anything in the web interface
for any Mailman 2.1.x release.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dimkar at thessaloniki.gr  Wed Mar 31 19:10:53 2010
From: dimkar at thessaloniki.gr (=?ISO-8859-7?Q?=C4=E7=EC=DE=F4=F1=E9=EF=F2_=CA=E1=F1=E1=F0=E9=F0=DD?= =?ISO-8859-7?Q?=F1=E7=F2?=)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:10:53 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe from all mailing lists
Message-ID: <4BB3821D.9080708@thessaloniki.gr>

Ralf pointed out the --fromall option on shell's remove_members script.


On the remove_members help it mentions

--nouserack
   -n  Don't send the user acknowledgements.  If not specified, the list
       default value is used.

Which is this default value ?


On remove_members --fromall ,.,. it did not send out any ack to the 
unsubscribed user but it did send to the administrator as defined by the 
mailing list option.

thanks
Dimitrios

From pokui at infocom.co.ug  Wed Mar 31 19:24:52 2010
From: pokui at infocom.co.ug (Patrick Okui)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:24:52 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe from all mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <4BB3821D.9080708@thessaloniki.gr>
References: <4BB3821D.9080708@thessaloniki.gr>
Message-ID: <C9B6FE74-525D-4CF4-B5F9-40DC79E680E9@infocom.co.ug>


On 31 Mar, 2010, at 8:10 PM, ????????? ???????????  
wrote:

> On the remove_members help it mentions
>
> --nouserack
>  -n  Don't send the user acknowledgements.  If not specified, the list
>      default value is used.
>
> Which is this default value ?

The one set in the list configuration.

--
patrick

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Mar 31 22:12:25 2010
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 13:12:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe from all mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <C9B6FE74-525D-4CF4-B5F9-40DC79E680E9@infocom.co.ug>
References: <4BB3821D.9080708@thessaloniki.gr>
	<C9B6FE74-525D-4CF4-B5F9-40DC79E680E9@infocom.co.ug>
Message-ID: <4BB3ACA9.6050702@msapiro.net>

On 3/31/2010 10:24 AM, Patrick Okui wrote:
> 
> On 31 Mar, 2010, at 8:10 PM, ????????? ??????????? wrote:
> 
>> On the remove_members help it mentions
>>
>> --nouserack
>>  -n  Don't send the user acknowledgements.  If not specified, the list
>>      default value is used.
>>
>> Which is this default value ?
> 
> The one set in the list configuration.


More specifically, the send_goodbye_msg setting on the list's General
Options page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan