From reks at iiap.res.in  Mon Aug  1 16:21:25 2011
From: reks at iiap.res.in (Rekhesh Mohan)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 19:51:25 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on freeBSD 8.2: getgrgid error
In-Reply-To: <CAAdA2WMzzooR0xyVMMhFBpFvJcm1umEJvg5_wfFFJU+2xeYjfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201108010157.10387.reks@iiap.res.in>
	<CAAdA2WMzzooR0xyVMMhFBpFvJcm1umEJvg5_wfFFJU+2xeYjfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201108011951.26092.reks@iiap.res.in>


On 01/08/2011 Odhiambo Washington wrote
> What is the output of this command on your system:
> 
> grep www /etc/group

Here is the output:

[root at foo ~]# grep www /etc/group
www:*:80:www
[root at foo ~]# 

Thanks! 

--R

> 
> On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 23:27, Rekhesh Mohan <reks at iiap.res.in> wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> > I've been fiddling with mailman 2.1.14 (from freebsd ports) on free
> > BSD 8.2. Everything seems to be fine so far except for the web
> > based stuff. I get the following error when I try to access the
> > page:
> > 
> > http://this.great.site/mailman/listinfo
> > 
> > -------<error>--------
> > Mailman CGI error!!!
> > 
> > The Mailman CGI wrapper encountered a fatal error. This entry is
> > being stored in your syslog:
> > Failure to find group name for GID 80.  Mailman
> > expected the CGI wrapper to be executed as group
> > "www", but the system's web server executed the
> > wrapper as GID 80 for which the name could not be
> > found.  Try adding GID 80 to your system as "www",
> > or tweak your web server to run the wrapper as group
> > "www".
> > -------</error>---------
> > 
> > This system has a www user and gid is 80 (group = www). In the
> > first attempt, I let freebsd choose its own configure-arguments
> > and later I tried it myself. Error remained the same.
> > 
> > AFAIK, src/common.c is checking the GID with getgid() followed by
> > getgrgid(). Now, my machine uses blowfish instead of md5 for
> > passwd. getgid() is returning 80 - which is fine since i have
> > gid(www) = 80 on my system. However, getgrgid(gid) returns null
> > :-|  I gave up my fight at that point and decided to ask for help
> > :)
> > 
> > I tried to figure out the behaviour of these functions with a small
> > test code: getgrgid() returns gr_passwd = * for blowfish, and
> > gr_passwd = x for md5. Is that an issue with mailman or am I
> > making mistakes somewhere else in the installation? My apache
> > config is given below (I followed the steps in installation doc.)
> > 
> > Thanks in advance..!
> > 
> > ---------<apache-config4mailman>----------------
> > ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"
> > Alias /pipermail/ "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/"
> > 
> > <Directory "/usr/local/mailman">
> > 
> >   Options FollowSymLinks ExecCGI
> >   AllowOverride None
> >   Order allow,deny
> >   Allow from all
> > 
> > </Directory>
> > 
> > RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$
> > http://this.great.site/mailman/listinfo/
> > ---------</apache-config4mailman>----------------
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> > Searchable Archives:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> > Unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/odhiambo%40gma
> > il.com


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug  1 17:01:50 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 08:01:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on freeBSD 8.2: getgrgid error
In-Reply-To: <201108010157.10387.reks@iiap.res.in>
Message-ID: <PC19520110801080150009956739495@Notebook-09>

Rekhesh Mohan wrote:
>
>AFAIK, src/common.c is checking the GID with getgid() followed by 
>getgrgid(). Now, my machine uses blowfish instead of md5 for passwd. 
>getgid() is returning 80 - which is fine since i have gid(www) = 80 on my 
>system. However, getgrgid(gid) returns null :-|  I gave up my fight at 
>that point and decided to ask for help :)


This appears to be a C library/OS issue that has nothing to do with
Mailman. getgrgid(gid) should return a struct group for the group
whose ID is gid. This structure should contain the information which
is a representation of the fields in the /etc/groups record for that
gid. If gid is valid, the return from getgrgid(gid) should not be null.


>I tried to figure out the behaviour of these functions with a small test 
>code: getgrgid() returns gr_passwd = * for blowfish, and gr_passwd = x 
>for md5. Is that an issue with mailman or am I making mistakes somewhere 
>else in the installation?


Mailman only cares about getgrgid()->gr_name.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lorenzo at coronati.com  Mon Aug  1 20:30:53 2011
From: lorenzo at coronati.com (Lorenzo Coronati)
Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2011 20:30:53 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman problem with exim
In-Reply-To: <PC1952011073006572500143affb827@Notebook-09>
References: <PC1952011073006572500143affb827@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <4E36F0DD.8080205@coronati.com>

On 30/07/2011 15:57, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Note that if you installed Mailman from a RedHat/CentOS rpm, most
> examples on the web won't work because the mail wrapper mail/mailman
> and the lists/ directory are not in the same MM_HOME directory. I.e.
> the wrapper is /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman and the list directory is
> /var/lib/mailman/lists/.
>
You got it Mark!
I didn't think to check those paths, and in fact they were wrong.
The error in the log was misleading me, nothing to do with virtual users 
and mysql...
I should have started with the simplest things...
Thanks a lot, I hope this thread can be useful to CentOS users.
Lorenzo


From dunkel at calamus.net  Mon Aug  1 23:48:37 2011
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2011 23:48:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I use /usr/sbin/postmap myself to update
	virtual-mailman.db?
Message-ID: <4E371F35.6050201@calamus.net>

Hi Mark,

I have moved my domains to a new server and have copied many mailing 
lists from the old server to the new one instead of creating them on the 
new server one by one.

Now I see that the virtual-mailman file isn't updated for these simply 
copied mailing lists, but only for newly created ones. The file warns me 
to edit it myself, but rather have it auto-updated from the 
virtual-mailman.db file.

If I have understood the process correctly, every time when I create a 
new mailing list, Mailman will add the relevant data to the 
virtual-mailman.db and run /usr/sbin/postmap to have the virtual-mailman 
file updated for Postfix.

Can I do this myself on the Server console? I would really like to avoid 
having to create all these mailing lists again ...

And - yes, they are all properly shown by list_lists and can be used in 
either way, but still not via the email interface.

Any help is appreciated, as always.

---Ulf Dunkel

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug  2 01:03:37 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 16:03:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I use /usr/sbin/postmap myself to
	updatevirtual-mailman.db?
In-Reply-To: <4E371F35.6050201@calamus.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201108011603370215058dbcfc@Notebook-09>

Ulf Dunkel wrote:
>
>Now I see that the virtual-mailman file isn't updated for these simply 
>copied mailing lists, but only for newly created ones. The file warns me 
>to edit it myself, but rather have it auto-updated from the 
>virtual-mailman.db file.


Actually, that's not what the warning means. See below.


>If I have understood the process correctly, every time when I create a 
>new mailing list, Mailman will add the relevant data to the 
>virtual-mailman.db and run /usr/sbin/postmap to have the virtual-mailman 
>file updated for Postfix.


That's backwards. Mailman adds the relevant data to the virtual-mailman
file and then runs /usr/sbin/postmap to update the virtual-mailman.db
file from virtual-mailman. When you put something like
hash:/path/to/data/virtual-mailman in your Postfix config, that tells
Postfix to consult the corresponding /path/to/data/virtual-mailman.db
database and to generate warnings in its log if the
/path/to/data/virtual-mailman.db is not at least as new as
/path/to/data/virtual-mailman


>Can I do this myself on the Server console? I would really like to avoid 
>having to create all these mailing lists again ...


What you want to run is Mailman's bin/genaliases which will completely
rebuild data/aliases and data/virtual-mailman based on the lists in
the installation including those you added by copying and run the
relevant postalias and postmap commands to update the .db files.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tom.browder at gmail.com  Tue Aug  2 13:31:33 2011
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 06:31:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman error: Forbidden: You don't have
 permission to access /pipermail/grads/ on this server [SOLVED]
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz_HJ2ehhMV0J5x7r_qVNpoPCbcQZr8ojzdyLTUDveZhPg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 13:08, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Tom Browder wrote:
...
>>However, I, as a list user, cannot get access to the archives for a
>>list. ?When I try to look at the archives through the link on the
>>Welcome message I get the following:
>>
>> ?Forbidden
>>
>> ?You don't have permission to access /pipermail/grads/ on this server.
>>
>>I tried changing the example line in the mailman.conf ?file from:
>>
>> ?Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
...
>>I have searched this list for "pipermail" but see no similar problem.
>>
>>I'm sure I've missed a note somewhere but I'm not sure how to proceed.
>> The mailman docs talk about permissions and the mailman user but
>>Ubuntu installs all mailman files with root:list ownership which seems
>>to work for all else. ?All the directories under /var/lib/mailman have
>>these permissions:
>>
>> ?drwxrwsr-x ?4 root list
>
> If that includes /var/lib/mailman/archives/private, then that's OK.
> Otherwise note that /var/lib/mailman/archives/private must be o+x or
> must have user:group xxx:list where xxx is the user that the web
> server uses to access files.

Aha, I missed the fine details of one important directory: the
archives/private directory did not have these permissions:

  drwxrwsr-x  4 root list

Instead it had these:

  drwxrws---  4 root list

As root I excuted

  chmod o+xr private

and now all works as advertised!

Thanks a heap, Mark.  I shall file a bug with Ubuntu.

Best regards.

-Tom

Thomas M. Browder, Jr.
Niceville, Florida
USA

From reks at iiap.res.in  Tue Aug  2 14:42:44 2011
From: reks at iiap.res.in (Rekhesh Mohan)
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 18:12:44 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on freeBSD 8.2: getgrgid error
In-Reply-To: <PC19520110801080150009956739495@Notebook-09>
References: <PC19520110801080150009956739495@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <201108021812.44683.reks@iiap.res.in>


On 01/08/2011 Mark wrote
> Rekhesh Mohan wrote:
> >AFAIK, src/common.c is checking the GID with getgid() followed by
> >getgrgid(). Now, my machine uses blowfish instead of md5 for passwd.
> >getgid() is returning 80 - which is fine since i have gid(www) = 80
> >on my system. However, getgrgid(gid) returns null :-|  I gave up my
> >fight at that point and decided to ask for help :)
> 
> This appears to be a C library/OS issue that has nothing to do with
> Mailman. getgrgid(gid) should return a struct group for the group
> whose ID is gid. This structure should contain the information which
> is a representation of the fields in the /etc/groups record for that
> gid. If gid is valid, the return from getgrgid(gid) should not be
> null.

You are probably right. It may be an issue in C library/OS. I will try 
and discuss this in freeBSD lists. 


 
> >I tried to figure out the behaviour of these functions with a small
> >test code: getgrgid() returns gr_passwd = * for blowfish, and
> >gr_passwd = x for md5. Is that an issue with mailman or am I making
> >mistakes somewhere else in the installation?
> 
> Mailman only cares about getgrgid()->gr_name.

Now here is something that spoiled my sleep: I wrote a small test 
program to call getgrgid(), and it prints getgrgid()->gr_name = www. 
When I added a print statement inside common.c, I get 
getgrgid()->gr_name = null (it goes to http error log, since http 
headers are not defined at this stage of the code).

Anyways, thanks again for your help..

--R

From tom.browder at gmail.com  Tue Aug  2 16:00:26 2011
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 09:00:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman error: Forbidden: You don't have
 permission to access /pipermail/grads/ on this server [SOLVED]
In-Reply-To: <CAFMGiz_HJ2ehhMV0J5x7r_qVNpoPCbcQZr8ojzdyLTUDveZhPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFMGiz_HJ2ehhMV0J5x7r_qVNpoPCbcQZr8ojzdyLTUDveZhPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz8M=P2Pzj=779QG4S-3VY+XKfkQeURiNTM_qChfSnn0+Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 06:31, Tom Browder <tom.browder at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 13:08, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>> Tom Browder wrote:
> ...
>>>However, I, as a list user, cannot get access to the archives for a
>>>list. ?When I try to look at the archives through the link on the
>>>Welcome message I get the following:
>>>
>>> ?Forbidden
>>>
>>> ?You don't have permission to access /pipermail/grads/ on this server.
>>>
>>>I tried changing the example line in the mailman.conf ?file from:
>>>
>>> ?Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
> ...
>>>I have searched this list for "pipermail" but see no similar problem.
>>>
>>>I'm sure I've missed a note somewhere but I'm not sure how to proceed.
>>> The mailman docs talk about permissions and the mailman user but
>>>Ubuntu installs all mailman files with root:list ownership which seems
>>>to work for all else. ?All the directories under /var/lib/mailman have
>>>these permissions:
>>>
>>> ?drwxrwsr-x ?4 root list
>>
>> If that includes /var/lib/mailman/archives/private, then that's OK.
>> Otherwise note that /var/lib/mailman/archives/private must be o+x or
>> must have user:group xxx:list where xxx is the user that the web
>> server uses to access files.
>
> Aha, I missed the fine details of one important directory: the
> archives/private directory did not have these permissions:
>
> ?drwxrwsr-x ?4 root list
>
> Instead it had these:
>
> ?drwxrws--- ?4 root list
>
> As root I excuted
>
> ?chmod o+xr private
>
> and now all works as advertised!
>
> Thanks a heap, Mark. ?I shall file a bug with Ubuntu.

This is already listed in Ubuntu bugs as number #543148.

I added a comment about my situation.

Best regards,

-Tom

Thomas M. Browder, Jr.
Niceville, Florida
USA

From dunkel at calamus.net  Tue Aug  2 16:37:47 2011
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 16:37:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I use /usr/sbin/postmap myself to
	updatevirtual-mailman.db?
In-Reply-To: <PC195201108011603370215058dbcfc@Notebook-09>
References: <PC195201108011603370215058dbcfc@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <4E380BBB.60504@calamus.net>

Hi Mark.

> What you want to run is Mailman's bin/genaliases which will completely
> rebuild data/aliases and data/virtual-mailman based on the lists in
> the installation including those you added by copying and run the
> relevant postalias and postmap commands to update the .db files.

Excellent! That worked for me. :-)

Thank you so much,
---Ulf Dunkel

From tom.browder at gmail.com  Tue Aug  2 17:30:01 2011
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 10:30:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two questions ref virtual hosts and mailman
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz8ZAcX5auKL1Es_YUS2pLKNYcDB=F6EXBV2MSm_vN=w9Q@mail.gmail.com>

Question 1:
=========

Current situation:
------------------------

I have now pretty much a working solution for this situation (postfix
and mailman installed with Ubuntu packages on 64-bit 10.04 LTS (Lucid
Lynx) :

  1 server
  1 "real" domain: realdomain.com
  2 virtual domains: virtual-1.org
                            virtual-2.org

All are accessed successfully through SSL/TLS (https).

Desired situation:
------------------------

I can get new lists at the virtual domains okay, but here's what I
would like to do: change the mailing list virtual domains to:

  2 virtual domains: lists.virtual-1.org # this is my default domain for mailman
                            lists.virtual-2.org

BUT present the lists to the users as, say, info at virtual-1.org

I had some mixed success early on, but other problems intervened.  Now
that the other problems have been solved, I want to blow everything
away and start over but only if the "Desired situation" is feasible:

Question 2:
=========

Can I also do this on the real domain:

Create a new subdomain and mailing lists:

  lists.realdomain.com <= let postfix and mailman handle this as a
virtual domain

And also as desired for "Question 1,"

  BUT present the lists to the users as, say, news at realdomain.com

Best regards,

-Tom

Thomas M. Browder, Jr.
Niceville, Florida
USA

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug  2 22:36:50 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 13:36:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on freeBSD 8.2: getgrgid error
In-Reply-To: <201108021812.44683.reks@iiap.res.in>
Message-ID: <PC19520110802133650002129afb847@Notebook-09>

Rekhesh Mohan wrote:
>
>Now here is something that spoiled my sleep: I wrote a small test 
>program to call getgrgid(), and it prints getgrgid()->gr_name = www. 
>When I added a print statement inside common.c, I get 
>getgrgid()->gr_name = null (it goes to http error log, since http 
>headers are not defined at this stage of the code).


What are the permissions on /etc/group? Is it world readable?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug  2 23:37:24 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 14:37:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two questions ref virtual hosts and mailman
In-Reply-To: <CAFMGiz8ZAcX5auKL1Es_YUS2pLKNYcDB=F6EXBV2MSm_vN=w9Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952011080214372404829fa851fa@Notebook-09>

Tom Browder wrote:

>Question 1:
>=========
>
>Current situation:
>------------------------
>
>I have now pretty much a working solution for this situation (postfix
>and mailman installed with Ubuntu packages on 64-bit 10.04 LTS (Lucid
>Lynx) :
>
>  1 server
>  1 "real" domain: realdomain.com
>  2 virtual domains: virtual-1.org
>                            virtual-2.org
>
>All are accessed successfully through SSL/TLS (https).
>
>Desired situation:
>------------------------
>
>I can get new lists at the virtual domains okay, but here's what I
>would like to do: change the mailing list virtual domains to:
>
>  2 virtual domains: lists.virtual-1.org # this is my default domain for mailman
>                            lists.virtual-2.org
>
>BUT present the lists to the users as, say, info at virtual-1.org


Every list has two attributes, a web_page_url with a host name of the
web domain and a host_name which is the name of the email domain. so,
yes, you can do what you want.

In mm_cfg.py you want

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.virtual-1.org'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'virtual-1.org'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
add_virtualhost('lists.virtual-2.org', 'virtual-2.org')

and only if you are using Mailman/Postfix integration

MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['virtual-1.org', 'virtual-2.org']

If you are using postfix_to_mailman.py, you want

MTA = None

and you want both virtual-1.org and virtual-2.org mapped to the mailman
transport in transport_maps, but this won't work if you have real
users with addresses @virtual-1.org or @virtual-2.org

See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9> for more info.

After making those mm_cfg.py changes, run fix_url as follows

For lists in the virtual-1.org domain (DEFAULT_*_HOST), run

  bin/withlist -l -r fix_url LISTNAME

For lists in the virtual-2.org domain, run

  bin/withlist -l -r fix_url LISTNAME -u lists.virtual-2.org

Following that, if you are using Mailman/Postfix integration, run

  bin/genaliases

to rebuild data/mailman* and data/virtual-mailman*.

>I had some mixed success early on, but other problems intervened.  Now
>that the other problems have been solved, I want to blow everything
>away and start over but only if the "Desired situation" is feasible:
>
>Question 2:
>=========
>
>Can I also do this on the real domain:
>
>Create a new subdomain and mailing lists:
>
>  lists.realdomain.com <= let postfix and mailman handle this as a
>virtual domain
>
>And also as desired for "Question 1,"
>
>  BUT present the lists to the users as, say, news at realdomain.com


Just add another

add_virtualhost('lists.realdomain.com', 'realdomain.com')

in mm_cfg.py and treat this like the others, except if realdomain.com
is local in Postfix and has real users, you can't use
postfix_to_mailman.py[1], and you don't add 'realdomain.com' to the
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS list.

[1] You really can still use postfix_to_mailman.py, but you can't
simply put "realdomain.com: mailman" in your transport_maps table. You
have to do things like

somelist at realdomain.com: mailman
somelist-bounces at realdomain.com: mailman
somelist-confirm at realdomain.com: mailman
(etc)

for all 10 addresses for each realdomain.com list at which point, you
are much better off using regular Mailman/Postfix integration.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tom.browder at gmail.com  Wed Aug  3 00:05:11 2011
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 17:05:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two questions ref virtual hosts and mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC1952011080214372404829fa851fa@Notebook-09>
References: <CAFMGiz8ZAcX5auKL1Es_YUS2pLKNYcDB=F6EXBV2MSm_vN=w9Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1952011080214372404829fa851fa@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz8PmOJRLV8a+FA+YgSj6xb4GgrrD3p21hqSOJjnbas1Uw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 16:37, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Tom Browder wrote:
>
>>Question 1:
>>=========
>>
>>Current situation:
>>------------------------
...
(detailed and helpful answers...)

Thanks, Mark!  I'm going to jump in again!

By the way, I have a Perl script and module I use to destroy and regen
the lists easily while testing if anyone is interested.

Best regards,

-Tom

Thomas M. Browder, Jr.
Niceville, Florida
USA

From reks at iiap.res.in  Wed Aug  3 08:23:00 2011
From: reks at iiap.res.in (Rekhesh Mohan)
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 11:53:00 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on freeBSD 8.2: getgrgid error
In-Reply-To: <PC19520110802133650002129afb847@Notebook-09>
References: <PC19520110802133650002129afb847@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <201108031153.00247.reks@iiap.res.in>

On Wednesday, August 03, 2011 02:06:50 AM Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Rekhesh Mohan wrote:
> >Now here is something that spoiled my sleep: I wrote a small test
> >program to call getgrgid(), and it prints getgrgid()->gr_name = www.
> >When I added a print statement inside common.c, I get
> >getgrgid()->gr_name = null (it goes to http error log, since http
> >headers are not defined at this stage of the code).
> 
> What are the permissions on /etc/group? Is it world readable?


Yes. They are world readable. By the way, I'm making some progress here 
:)

I can now confirm that issue is with system/OS security and not with 
mailman. getgrgid()->gr_name returns meaningful value only if a member 
of "wheel" group calls it. I added my apache-user "www" to wheel group 
(his primary group is still www) and mailman is happy - web interface is 
working. I am not sure about the security implications of apache user 
being a member of wheel group. 

Need to check if this is the default behaviour of freeBSD 8.2. I am 
searching for a machine where I can try a fresh and clean install of 
freeBSD + mailman. Please let me know If anyone here has a mailman 
working on freeBSD 8.2

--R

From mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de  Wed Aug  3 10:22:23 2011
From: mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de (Mailman Admin)
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 10:22:23 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on freeBSD 8.2: getgrgid error
In-Reply-To: <201108031153.00247.reks@iiap.res.in>
References: <PC19520110802133650002129afb847@Notebook-09>
	<201108031153.00247.reks@iiap.res.in>
Message-ID: <4E39053F.2040109@uni-konstanz.de>

Hello Rekhesh Mohan


On 08/03/2011 08:23 AM, Rekhesh Mohan wrote:
> 
> I can now confirm that issue is with system/OS security and not with 
> mailman. getgrgid()->gr_name returns meaningful value only if a member 
> of "wheel" group calls it. I added my apache-user "www" to wheel group 
> (his primary group is still www) and mailman is happy - web interface is 
> working. I am not sure about the security implications of apache user 
> being a member of wheel group. 
> 

The wheel group is the group for all admins not named root!

You never should give the apache user admin privileges.
If someone breaks into your apache she can overtake your whole machine
at once.

I don't know freeBSD. Does it use something like SELinux?


Kind regards,
Christian Mack

From reks at iiap.res.in  Wed Aug  3 14:08:17 2011
From: reks at iiap.res.in (Rekhesh Mohan)
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 17:38:17 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on freeBSD 8.2: getgrgid error
In-Reply-To: <4E39053F.2040109@uni-konstanz.de>
References: <PC19520110802133650002129afb847@Notebook-09>
	<201108031153.00247.reks@iiap.res.in>
	<4E39053F.2040109@uni-konstanz.de>
Message-ID: <201108031738.17707.reks@iiap.res.in>

On Wednesday, August 03, 2011 01:52:23 PM Mailman Admin wrote:
> Hello Rekhesh Mohan
> 
> On 08/03/2011 08:23 AM, Rekhesh Mohan wrote:
> > I can now confirm that issue is with system/OS security and not
> > with mailman. getgrgid()->gr_name returns meaningful value only if
> > a member of "wheel" group calls it. I added my apache-user "www"
> > to wheel group (his primary group is still www) and mailman is
> > happy - web interface is working. I am not sure about the security
> > implications of apache user being a member of wheel group.
> 
> The wheel group is the group for all admins not named root!
> 
> You never should give the apache user admin privileges.
> If someone breaks into your apache she can overtake your whole
> machine at once.
> 
> I don't know freeBSD. Does it use something like SELinux?


Hi Christian,

Sure :) I have already pulled out the www from wheel. That was one of 
the many things I have been trying out to understand the issue. 

I am new to freeBSD - There is nothing like selinux.. but it has some 
kernel security level setting, which is disabled on my system. 

Thanks!

--R

From raposo at ipb.pt  Wed Aug  3 00:53:39 2011
From: raposo at ipb.pt (Eduardo Costa)
Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 23:53:39 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about moderation
Message-ID: <4E387FF3.7020106@ipb.pt>


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi everyone,

It is possible and how, in a list with multiple moderators to check
which of the moderators moderated message?

Best Regards

- -- 
......................................
 Eduardo Costa    
......................................
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.14 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJOOH/zAAoJEM0PA7cQuGW6SQUIAKHzPTFhdVQK/os3VH1nm9lJ
/i0u8h0p+0/fivJDbnp1duAtTEwWmKV0ACchQ7/E8p2pbO02OR/gO/F/q0V7UGW7
jbd3j4Wiu3fO4DnzyJNh6bpjP02s0gxfkTbabCjEYBfUm4z5PgTkm93U188OmZPI
17sqYdEpKtHeEKSzOPObpaQoRGJH9w24XWI4WYiN6aRNh8ncRfmhWGnQ03Eb+36N
hXGodrljNiVcsaxxVoetcxp3UK27IWlCs2cDiBij37xCTA1GMNk1L+bOMJvbuAik
R6zvPHQ6zBOfQGB9JTzd75xdJ/u8QFxEf2FztZJvpz6ol1lLCQKncyp1P4I10x0=
=sw+o
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug  3 15:31:30 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 06:31:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about moderation
In-Reply-To: <4E387FF3.7020106@ipb.pt>
Message-ID: <PC1952011080306313004888ad9be06@Notebook-09>

Eduardo Costa wrote:
>
>It is possible and how, in a list with multiple moderators to check
>which of the moderators moderated message?


Not within Mailman, but Mailman's vette log will have a time stamp, and
using that you can check your MTA's logs for who sent the
approve/discard message if it was sent by email or the web server's
logs for the IP address of the POST transaction if the moderation was
via the web.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From danny at puterakembara.org  Thu Aug  4 12:31:19 2011
From: danny at puterakembara.org (Danny Hendrawan)
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 20:31:19 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to include https on approval notification email
Message-ID: <4E3A74F7.2010206@puterakembara.org>

Hello,

I have a moderated list and on the approval notification email (see below)
I'd like to access my mailman admin interface by using a secured /ssl 
connection ; how or where to change

http://mydomain.com/mailman/admindb/list_mydomain.com

to become

https://mydomain.com/mailman/admindb/list_mydomain.com


Thanks,
Danny

=====================
as list administrator, your authorization is requested for the
following mailing list posting:

     List:list at mydomain.com
     From:member at gmail.com
     Subject: Re: [mylist] bla bla bla
     Reason:  Post to moderated list

At your convenience, visit:

     http://mydomain.com/mailman/admindb/list_mydomain.com

to approve or deny the request.
======================



From reks at iiap.res.in  Thu Aug  4 13:12:53 2011
From: reks at iiap.res.in (Rekhesh Mohan)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:42:53 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on freeBSD 8.2: getgrgid error [solved]
In-Reply-To: <PC19520110802133650002129afb847@Notebook-09>
References: <PC19520110802133650002129afb847@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <201108041642.53748.reks@iiap.res.in>


On 03/08/2011 Mark wrote
> Rekhesh Mohan wrote:
> >Now here is something that spoiled my sleep: I wrote a small test
> >program to call getgrgid(), and it prints getgrgid()->gr_name = www.
> >When I added a print statement inside common.c, I get
> >getgrgid()->gr_name = null (it goes to http error log, since http
> >headers are not defined at this stage of the code).
> 
> What are the permissions on /etc/group? Is it world readable?


Hi people,

Issue is solved, after some help from freebsd-hackers list. /etc had 750
permissions. I was too busy looking into /etc and forgot to look above
the directory (or probably I'm growing too old for this kind of stuff)
 :)

Thanks again, everyone..!

--R

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug  4 16:00:09 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 07:00:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to include https on approval notification
	email
In-Reply-To: <4E3A74F7.2010206@puterakembara.org>
Message-ID: <PC1952011080407000908260f8fd343@Notebook-09>

Danny Hendrawan wrote:
>
>I have a moderated list and on the approval notification email (see below)
>I'd like to access my mailman admin interface by using a secured /ssl 
>connection ; how or where to change
>
>http://mydomain.com/mailman/admindb/list_mydomain.com
>
>to become
>
>https://mydomain.com/mailman/admindb/list_mydomain.com


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/7oA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tom.browder at gmail.com  Fri Aug  5 23:18:16 2011
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 16:18:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two questions ref virtual hosts and mailman
 [SOLVED (so far)]
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz9-Z94E-WzDP9aknL04ibsBXcPXGb58Zp-iNob6=54Tag@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 14:55, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> On 8/5/2011 8:07 AM, Tom Browder wrote:
>
>> In my /etc/postfix/main.cf I have this:
>> ? relay_domains = virtual-1.org, virtual-2.org
>
>
> I am not a Postfix expert, but I'll tell you what I think. If that
> doesn't solve the problem, you may need to go to a Postfix list.
>
> I know the postfix-to-mailman.py documentation says to put your list
> domains in relay_domains, but I think that's wrong. I don't think it
> normally hurts as long as you haven't specified relay_recipient_maps in
> main.cf, but if you have, then if your list domains are in
> relay_domains, all your list addresses need to be in
> relay_recipient_maps tables. That appears to be the source of your
> current problem.
>
> Bottom line: remove the above relay_domains entry.

Thanks, Mark, I'll try that--I have to say that the docs are somewhat
confusing--especially postfix...

Hm, didn't work--uncommented the change and experimenting a little...

Aha, I think all works now.  What I did was comment out this line in
/etc/postfix/main.cf:

#relay_recipient_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

After a postfix reload I'm reading foreing subscribers on the
list...and no errors noticed yet on  the real host.

Best regards, and thanks again for your help.

Happy mailing all!

-Tom

From tom.browder at gmail.com  Sat Aug  6 00:11:31 2011
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 17:11:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How is the subscriber's name used?
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz9cQ8iPfUwmSxspcyrw_9B3bMPeBEvpYDfB+euNF3KSdQ@mail.gmail.com>

I think I have a working mailing list, and I just "mass" subscribed a
dozen of my friends to take a spin.  When I subscribed them I put
their real names in the mass subscription list like this:

blitz12345 at gmailcom (Real Name)

The Real Name shows on the admin's subscriber list, but not in the
subscribers list available to the subscribers.  Two questions:

1.  What is the Real Name used for?
2.  Can it be shown on the public subscribers list?

Thanks,

-Tom

USAFA, CS-24, Class of 1965
Niceville, Florida, USA

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug  6 00:56:13 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 15:56:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two questions ref virtual hosts and
	mailman[SOLVED (so far)]
In-Reply-To: <CAFMGiz9-Z94E-WzDP9aknL04ibsBXcPXGb58Zp-iNob6=54Tag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952011080515561307638506ff08@Notebook-09>

Tom Browder wrote:
>
>Aha, I think all works now.  What I did was comment out this line in
>/etc/postfix/main.cf:
>
>#relay_recipient_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman


OK. That's one more issue with the package you're using and its use of
postfix-to-mailman.py. In order for the above relay_recipient_maps to
work as apparently intended, you would need to have

MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['virtual-1.org', 'virtual-2.org']

in mm_cfg.py so that Mailman will actually generate the
/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman(.db) files for Postfix to use as
relay_recipient_maps, but this would still be an incomplete solution
because the "postmaster" and "abuse" and other 'special' addresses
that postfix-to-mailman.py recognizes will not be included in
virtual-mailman, and thus those addresses in the list domains will be
rejected by Postfix.

Also, I fail to understand why a packager would configure Mailman to
uses postfix-to-mailman.py but still require half or more of standard
Mailman/Postfix integration to work as configured.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tom.browder at gmail.com  Sat Aug  6 01:09:06 2011
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 18:09:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two questions ref virtual hosts and
 mailman[SOLVED (so far)]
In-Reply-To: <PC1952011080515561307638506ff08@Notebook-09>
References: <CAFMGiz9-Z94E-WzDP9aknL04ibsBXcPXGb58Zp-iNob6=54Tag@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1952011080515561307638506ff08@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz-Rxxr=Qe2x3Ypg3qYftXhFhDHzvtz4Hb6gSEJaoCe8sA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 17:56, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Tom Browder wrote:
>>
>>Aha, I think all works now. ?What I did was comment out this line in
>>/etc/postfix/main.cf:
>>
>>#relay_recipient_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

Hm, but now I'm having problems because when I reply to a message from
list posters it has their personal e-mail address in the header like
this example:

Billy Bob billy.bowlegs at gmail.com via virtual-1.org

I have my list configure so it is (by default) supposed to hide
personal addresses.

Maybe something else is amiss.

-Tom

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug  6 01:14:34 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 16:14:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How is the subscriber's name used?
In-Reply-To: <CAFMGiz9cQ8iPfUwmSxspcyrw_9B3bMPeBEvpYDfB+euNF3KSdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952011080516143404998506fe15@Notebook-09>

Tom Browder wrote:
>
>The Real Name shows on the admin's subscriber list, but not in the
>subscribers list available to the subscribers.  Two questions:
>
>1.  What is the Real Name used for?


It is displayed in the web admin membership list and the results of the
email 'who' command. It is also included in the To: header of messages
if the list is fully personalized.


>2.  Can it be shown on the public subscribers list?


See the change to HTMLFormatter.py at
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.2/revision/1034>
and the report at <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/266754>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug  6 01:23:22 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 16:23:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two questions ref virtual hosts
	andmailman[SOLVED (so far)]
In-Reply-To: <CAFMGiz-Rxxr=Qe2x3Ypg3qYftXhFhDHzvtz4Hb6gSEJaoCe8sA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952011080516232205718506fe51@Notebook-09>

Tom Browder wrote:
>
>Hm, but now I'm having problems because when I reply


Using what MUA?


>to a message from
>list posters it has their personal e-mail address in the header like
>this example:
>
>Billy Bob billy.bowlegs at gmail.com via virtual-1.org
>
>I have my list configure so it is (by default) supposed to hide
>personal addresses.


Configured how? The list setting

anonymous_list = Yes

or

ARCHIVER_OBSCURES_EMAILADDRS = Yes

or something else?

What are the actual raw headers in the message you receive from the
list?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tom.browder at gmail.com  Sat Aug  6 02:41:29 2011
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 19:41:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two questions ref virtual hosts
 andmailman[SOLVED (so far)]
In-Reply-To: <PC1952011080516232205718506fe51@Notebook-09>
References: <CAFMGiz-Rxxr=Qe2x3Ypg3qYftXhFhDHzvtz4Hb6gSEJaoCe8sA@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1952011080516232205718506fe51@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz88pKAwqiTmucM8a_Td4gHbgATq+CBCkKKoQZ7n4bNCTA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 18:23, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Tom Browder wrote:
>>
>>Hm, but now I'm having problems because when I reply
...
> Using what MUA?

gmail

>>to a message from
>>list posters it has their personal e-mail address in the header like
>>this example:
>>
>>Billy Bob billy.bowlegs at gmail.com via virtual-1.org
>>
>>I have my list configure so it is (by default) supposed to hide
>>personal addresses.
>
>
> Configured how? The list setting
>
> anonymous_list = Yes

No, this:

Show member addresses so they're not directly recognizable as email addresses?
(Details for obscure_addresses)   No Yes    <== [Yes selected]

***And this may be part of my understanding--this setting:

Where are replies to list messages directed? Poster is strongly
recommended for most mailing lists.  [it iset to POSTER]

I now see that that is what this list does--I'm not used to that on
other mailing lists.
	
I've looked at both arguments for "munging" reply-to and I agree with
the dissenter and will change the setting to THIS LIST.

Shouldn't that do the trick?

> What are the actual raw headers in the message you receive from the
> list?

This is what my gmail shows:

from	Jerry Pipinich jpipinich at yahoo.com via usafa-1965.org
sender-time	Sent at 17:31 (GMT-07:00). Current time there: 5:36 PM. ?
to	graytags at usafa-1965.org
date	Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 17:31
subject	[Graytags] USAFA '65
mailing list	graytags.usafa-1965.org Filter messages from this mailing list
mailed-by	usafa-1965.org
unsubscribe	Unsubscribe from this mailing-list

I'll see if I can find the actual ones sent from my postfix host if
that's not good enough.

Best,

-Tom

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug  6 03:08:10 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 18:08:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two questions ref virtual hosts
 andmailman[SOLVED (so far)]
In-Reply-To: <CAFMGiz88pKAwqiTmucM8a_Td4gHbgATq+CBCkKKoQZ7n4bNCTA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFMGiz-Rxxr=Qe2x3Ypg3qYftXhFhDHzvtz4Hb6gSEJaoCe8sA@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1952011080516232205718506fe51@Notebook-09>
	<CAFMGiz88pKAwqiTmucM8a_Td4gHbgATq+CBCkKKoQZ7n4bNCTA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E3C93FA.6080204@msapiro.net>

On 8/5/2011 5:41 PM, Tom Browder wrote:
> 
> No, this:
> 
> Show member addresses so they're not directly recognizable as email addresses?
> (Details for obscure_addresses)   No Yes    <== [Yes selected]


That setting affects only how addresses are displayed on the list's
roster web page.


> ***And this may be part of my understanding--this setting:
> 
> Where are replies to list messages directed? Poster is strongly
> recommended for most mailing lists.  [it iset to POSTER]
> 
> I now see that that is what this list does--I'm not used to that on
> other mailing lists.
> 	
> I've looked at both arguments for "munging" reply-to and I agree with
> the dissenter and will change the setting to THIS LIST.
> 
> Shouldn't that do the trick?


That will add a Reply-To: header (or add to an existing Reply-To: if
first_strip_reply_to is No) with the list posting address.


>> What are the actual raw headers in the message you receive from the
>> list?
> 
> This is what my gmail shows:
> 
> from	Jerry Pipinich jpipinich at yahoo.com via usafa-1965.org
> sender-time	Sent at 17:31 (GMT-07:00). Current time there: 5:36 PM. ?
> to	graytags at usafa-1965.org
> date	Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 17:31
> subject	[Graytags] USAFA '65
> mailing list	graytags.usafa-1965.org Filter messages from this mailing list
> mailed-by	usafa-1965.org
> unsubscribe	Unsubscribe from this mailing-list


Is that from clicking the down arrow next to "Reply" in the gmail
message display window and selecting "show original"? If not, what is
the From: header when you do that?

If so, then Postfix is rewriting the From: header. "Why" is a Postfix
question. If we can help with that, we'd at least need to see the output
from "postconf -n", but I would recommend getting rid of
postfix-to-mailman.py and just using standard Mailman/Postfix integration.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tom.browder at gmail.com  Sat Aug  6 04:54:14 2011
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 21:54:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How is the subscriber's name used?
In-Reply-To: <PC1952011080516143404998506fe15@Notebook-09>
References: <CAFMGiz9cQ8iPfUwmSxspcyrw_9B3bMPeBEvpYDfB+euNF3KSdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1952011080516143404998506fe15@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz_Q69WAn2Hv+Ubcb-S+rF3F5K-en6YcEZ4vj7yBkfQUAg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 18:14, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Tom Browder wrote:
...
>>1. ?What is the Real Name used for?
...
>>2. ?Can it be shown on the public subscribers list?
...
> See the change to HTMLFormatter.py at
> <http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.2/revision/1034>

I applied the patch and it works nicely!  I may add some more formatting later:

  go through subscriber and list get the max length of e-mail names on the list
  add to each subscriber e-mail name spaces to extend to the max
e-mail name spaces
  add desired extra space for clear separation from the e-mail
  append the "real name" (possibly without parens)

Thanks, Mark.

Best,

-Tom

From tom.browder at gmail.com  Sat Aug  6 05:04:22 2011
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 22:04:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two questions ref virtual hosts and
 mailman[SOLVED (so far)]
In-Reply-To: <CAFMGiz-Rxxr=Qe2x3Ypg3qYftXhFhDHzvtz4Hb6gSEJaoCe8sA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFMGiz9-Z94E-WzDP9aknL04ibsBXcPXGb58Zp-iNob6=54Tag@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1952011080515561307638506ff08@Notebook-09>
	<CAFMGiz-Rxxr=Qe2x3Ypg3qYftXhFhDHzvtz4Hb6gSEJaoCe8sA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz9mC=-JVRBg3esemm9vxfgwdcc=9HVZEo2yO9paH4CHrw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 18:09, Tom Browder <tom.browder at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 17:56, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>> Tom Browder wrote:
...
> Hm, but now I'm having problems because when I reply to a message from
> list posters it has their personal e-mail address in the header like
> this example:
>
> Billy Bob billy.bowlegs at gmail.com via virtual-1.org

I now have the headers looking as I expected.  I did it by changing
the list default setting here:

General options:
----------------------

Where are replies to list messages directed? Poster is strongly
recommended for most mailing lists.

[default is POSTER, I set it to THIS LIST]

So my list is looking the way I expect it to, and recipients are
seeing the same.

Tomorrow I try out a new read-only site.

Best regards, and thanks for your patience, Mark.

-Tom

USAFA, CS-24, Class of 1965
Niceville, Florida, USA

From informatica at actiu.net  Sat Aug  6 09:30:07 2011
From: informatica at actiu.net (Narcis Garcia - GiLUG)
Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2011 09:30:07 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How is the subscriber's name used?
In-Reply-To: <PC1952011080516143404998506fe15@Notebook-09>
References: <PC1952011080516143404998506fe15@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <4E3CED7F.4070008@actiu.net>

I put the names as in mail clients:

Real Name <address at example.com>

But I wish to appear the real names in the From: field when the 
subscriber writes to the list (replace the original real name by the 
subscribed one)


Al 06/08/11 01:14, En/na Mark Sapiro ha escrit:
> Tom Browder wrote:
>>
>> The Real Name shows on the admin's subscriber list, but not in the
>> subscribers list available to the subscribers.  Two questions:
>>
>> 1.  What is the Real Name used for?
>
>
> It is displayed in the web admin membership list and the results of the
> email 'who' command. It is also included in the To: header of messages
> if the list is fully personalized.
>
>
>> 2.  Can it be shown on the public subscribers list?
>
>
> See the change to HTMLFormatter.py at
> <http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.2/revision/1034>
> and the report at<https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/266754>
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug  6 16:58:14 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 07:58:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How is the subscriber's name used?
In-Reply-To: <4E3CED7F.4070008@actiu.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201108060758140013321c3c1b@Notebook-09>

Narcis Garcia - GiLUG wrote:

>I put the names as in mail clients:
>
>Real Name <address at example.com>
>
>But I wish to appear the real names in the From: field when the 
>subscriber writes to the list (replace the original real name by the 
>subscribed one)


You can do this with a custom handler <http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>.

Also see the thread "private lists with real name signatures" which
starts at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-May/069566.html>
and is revisited at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2011-January/071066.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rl6 at shinyblue.net  Sun Aug  7 00:57:22 2011
From: rl6 at shinyblue.net (Rich Lott)
Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2011 23:57:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] exim says 'unrouteable' on new list
Message-ID: <4E3DC6D2.4030102@shinyblue.net>

Hi

I have exim4 and mailman running successfully on my server. I have a 
working list that runs at somelistname at artfulrobot.com and a working web 
admin iface. All good.

But now I want to set up a new list under a subdomain for another 
client. This list name does not clash with my other list, and it is does 
not clash with a username on the server.

I set it up with this command

$ newlist -e maybe.artfulrobot.com -u artfulrobot.com community

I used the web iface to mass subscribe my own email address, and I got a 
"welcome" message. But when I try to send to the list, it bounces back.

Nb. I can email someotheruser at maybe.artfulrobot.com and receive it at 
someotheruser's normal user account.

I looked at the output from this command:
$ exim4 -d -bt community at maybe.artfulrobot.com

to see why it was failing. Output below.

Basically, it seems that mm has not registered 
community at maybe.artfulrobot.com in data/virtual-mailman.

I've read lots of postings, docs etc. but gotten nowhere. I've tried 
fiddling with /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py, adding things like:

MTA=None (and MTA='None')

add_virtualhost('maybe.artfulrobot.com','maybe.artfulrobot.com' )

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [ 'artfulrobot.com', 
'maybe.artfulrobot.com']

Each change I've restarted MM. Tried and got the unrouteable error again.

Can anyone help?! thanks...

Rich



--------> mailman_router router <--------
local_part=community domain=maybe.artfulrobot.com
checking domains
cached yes match for +local_domains
cached lookup data = NULL
maybe.artfulrobot.com in "+local_domains"? yes (matched "+local_domains" 
- cached)
checking require_files
file check: /var/lib/mailman/lists/$local_part/config.pck
expanded file: /var/lib/mailman/lists/community/config.pck
stat() yielded 0
checking "condition"
search_open: lsearch "/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman"
search_find: file="/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman"
   key="community at maybe.artfulrobot.com" partial=-1 affix=NULL starflags=0
LRU list:
   :/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
   :/etc/aliases
   End
internal_search_find: file="/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman"
   type=lsearch key="community at maybe.artfulrobot.com"
file lookup required for community at maybe.artfulrobot.com
   in /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
lookup failed
mailman_router router skipped: condition failure
no more routers
search_tidyup called
 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Exim pid=2959 terminating with rc=2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Sun Aug  7 15:22:01 2011
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 14:22:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] exim says 'unrouteable' on new list
In-Reply-To: <4E3DC6D2.4030102@shinyblue.net>
References: <4E3DC6D2.4030102@shinyblue.net>
Message-ID: <20110807132201.GG12921@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Sat, Aug 06, 2011 at 11:57:22PM +0100, Rich Lott wrote:
> Hi
>
> I have exim4 and mailman running successfully on my server. I have a  
> working list that runs at somelistname at artfulrobot.com and a working web  
> admin iface. All good.
>
> I looked at the output from this command:
> $ exim4 -d -bt community at maybe.artfulrobot.com
>
> to see why it was failing. Output below.
>
> Basically, it seems that mm has not registered  
> community at maybe.artfulrobot.com in data/virtual-mailman.

Your debug message states:

> file lookup required for community at maybe.artfulrobot.com
>   in /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
> lookup failed

Is that correct? (i.e., does /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman...)
exist?

> I've read lots of postings, docs etc. but gotten nowhere. I've tried  
> fiddling with /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py, adding things like:

For Exim and Mailman, I'd use the canonical document:
    
    http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html

and that alone.

> MTA=None (and MTA='None')
>
> add_virtualhost('maybe.artfulrobot.com','maybe.artfulrobot.com' )
>
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [ 'artfulrobot.com',  
> 'maybe.artfulrobot.com']

I'd not bother with that sort of thing. Just use the tried-and-tested 

    http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html

> Each change I've restarted MM. Tried and got the unrouteable error again.

If you're fiddling with Exim that probably needs HUPing.


-- 
"Well, you didn't design your beard too well, did you? You really
 must try better with your beard." 
    -- DoE to a fashion designer

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Aug  7 15:29:51 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 06:29:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] exim says 'unrouteable' on new list
In-Reply-To: <4E3DC6D2.4030102@shinyblue.net>
Message-ID: <PC1952011080706295100701e08f079@Notebook-09>

Rich Lott wrote:
>
>I have exim4 and mailman running successfully on my server. I have a 
>working list that runs at somelistname at artfulrobot.com and a working web 
>admin iface. All good.
>
>But now I want to set up a new list under a subdomain for another 
>client. This list name does not clash with my other list, and it is does 
>not clash with a username on the server.
>
>I set it up with this command
>
>$ newlist -e maybe.artfulrobot.com -u artfulrobot.com community
>
>I used the web iface to mass subscribe my own email address, and I got a 
>"welcome" message. But when I try to send to the list, it bounces back.
>
>Nb. I can email someotheruser at maybe.artfulrobot.com and receive it at 
>someotheruser's normal user account.
>
>I looked at the output from this command:
>$ exim4 -d -bt community at maybe.artfulrobot.com
>
>to see why it was failing. Output below.
>
>Basically, it seems that mm has not registered 
>community at maybe.artfulrobot.com in data/virtual-mailman.


I don't know how you are routing and delivering Mailman's incoming mail
in Exim, but you are apparently not following the recommended method
described at <http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html>.

If you rely on data/virtual-mailman, you need to have the following in
mm_cfg.py.

MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [..., 'maybe.artfulrobot.com']

where ... is your other list email domain(s) that you presumably had
since it was working.


>I've read lots of postings, docs etc. but gotten nowhere. I've tried 
>fiddling with /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py, adding things like:
>
>MTA=None (and MTA='None')


It's MTA = None, not 'None', but as I said above you want MTA =
'Postfix'.


>add_virtualhost('maybe.artfulrobot.com','maybe.artfulrobot.com' )

This should be

add_virtualhost('artfulrobot.com', 'maybe.artfulrobot.com')

unless you already have another add_virtualhost with artfulrobot.com
(or DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'artfulrobot.com') as the url host. If that is
the case, it is probably best to omit this add_virtualhost and have

VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off

instead.

>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [ 'artfulrobot.com', 
>'maybe.artfulrobot.com']


And you do want this.


>Each change I've restarted MM. Tried and got the unrouteable error again.


Because restarting Mailman doesn't change anything. You need to run
Mailman's bin/genaliases to rebuild virtual-mailman after adding
'maybe.artfulrobot.com' to POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS.

See below for more.


>Can anyone help?! thanks...
>
>Rich
>
>
>
>--------> mailman_router router <--------
>local_part=community domain=maybe.artfulrobot.com
>checking domains
>cached yes match for +local_domains
>cached lookup data = NULL
>maybe.artfulrobot.com in "+local_domains"? yes (matched "+local_domains" 
>- cached)
>checking require_files
>file check: /var/lib/mailman/lists/$local_part/config.pck
>expanded file: /var/lib/mailman/lists/community/config.pck
>stat() yielded 0


It appears you are using something like the router described at
<http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html>, but you have this extra
condition below requiring virtual-mailman. I suggest you remove that
from your Exim mailman router and follow the recommendations in the
howto.


>checking "condition"
>search_open: lsearch "/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman"
>search_find: file="/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman"
>   key="community at maybe.artfulrobot.com" partial=-1 affix=NULL starflags=0
>LRU list:
>   :/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>   :/etc/aliases
>   End
>internal_search_find: file="/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman"
>   type=lsearch key="community at maybe.artfulrobot.com"
>file lookup required for community at maybe.artfulrobot.com
>   in /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>lookup failed
>mailman_router router skipped: condition failure
>no more routers
>search_tidyup called
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Exim pid=2959 terminating with rc=2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rl6 at shinyblue.net  Mon Aug  8 00:12:27 2011
From: rl6 at shinyblue.net (Rich)
Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2011 23:12:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] exim says 'unrouteable' on new list [SOLVED]
In-Reply-To: <4E3DC6D2.4030102@shinyblue.net>
References: <4E3DC6D2.4030102@shinyblue.net>
Message-ID: <4E3F0DCB.5040002@shinyblue.net>

Thanks Adam and Mark for your responses. I'm always amazed at the 
generosity of the open source community and I do appreciate it.


After about 4 hours fiddling I'd managed to find a fix. I think the main 
thing I was missing was that you have to run genaliases in order to 
update the lookup file.

I had read http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html but not found it 
particularly enlightening, esp. the exim section. I had read a lot more, 
too. Just search this list for "virutal domain" and you'll see how many 
others have problems too, and I read through lots of those!

In the end I found /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Exim4.Debian.gz which 
was most helpful.

For the benefit of anyone reading this, I have learnt:

1. in mm_config, it says postfix but it means exim too. Unfortunate 
lexical obfuscation ;-)

2. virtual domains look like quite a hassle with postfix, but with exim 
they're easy as long as your lists all have unique names, regardless of 
their domain (or you have to run 2 installs of mm)

3. running genaliases is needed to update existing lists.

4. beyond the instructions in README.Exim4.Debian I added a line
     add_virtualhost('my.virt.host.com','my.virt.host.com')
     for each virtualhost. I'm not sure this is needed once it's listed 
in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
     but I'm not going to try to break it now I've finally got it working!

5. Exim +debconf rocks: debconf effortlessly ensured I avoided the 
pitfalls that seem so common from reports elsewhere on MTA config, and 
exim -d -bt some at email.address.com bends over backwards to tell you what 
it's doing.


Happy at last.

Good luck to everyone else!

Rich




On 06/08/11 23:57, Rich Lott wrote:
> Hi
>
> I have exim4 and mailman running successfully on my server. I have a 
> working list that runs at somelistname at artfulrobot.com and a working 
> web admin iface. All good.
>
> But now I want to set up a new list under a subdomain for another 
> client. This list name does not clash with my other list, and it is 
> does not clash with a username on the server.
>
> I set it up with this command
>
> $ newlist -e maybe.artfulrobot.com -u artfulrobot.com community
>
> I used the web iface to mass subscribe my own email address, and I got 
> a "welcome" message. But when I try to send to the list, it bounces back.
>
> Nb. I can email someotheruser at maybe.artfulrobot.com and receive it at 
> someotheruser's normal user account.
>
> I looked at the output from this command:
> $ exim4 -d -bt community at maybe.artfulrobot.com
>
> to see why it was failing. Output below.
>
> Basically, it seems that mm has not registered 
> community at maybe.artfulrobot.com in data/virtual-mailman.
>
> I've read lots of postings, docs etc. but gotten nowhere. I've tried 
> fiddling with /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py, adding things like:
>
> MTA=None (and MTA='None')
>
> add_virtualhost('maybe.artfulrobot.com','maybe.artfulrobot.com' )
>
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [ 'artfulrobot.com', 
> 'maybe.artfulrobot.com']
>
> Each change I've restarted MM. Tried and got the unrouteable error again.
>
> Can anyone help?! thanks...
>
> Rich
>
>
>
> --------> mailman_router router <--------
> local_part=community domain=maybe.artfulrobot.com
> checking domains
> cached yes match for +local_domains
> cached lookup data = NULL
> maybe.artfulrobot.com in "+local_domains"? yes (matched 
> "+local_domains" - cached)
> checking require_files
> file check: /var/lib/mailman/lists/$local_part/config.pck
> expanded file: /var/lib/mailman/lists/community/config.pck
> stat() yielded 0
> checking "condition"
> search_open: lsearch "/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman"
> search_find: file="/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman"
>   key="community at maybe.artfulrobot.com" partial=-1 affix=NULL starflags=0
> LRU list:
>   :/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>   :/etc/aliases
>   End
> internal_search_find: file="/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman"
>   type=lsearch key="community at maybe.artfulrobot.com"
> file lookup required for community at maybe.artfulrobot.com
>   in /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
> lookup failed
> mailman_router router skipped: condition failure
> no more routers
> search_tidyup called
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Exim pid=2959 terminating with rc=2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rl6%40shinyblue.net


From chadrebuck at gmail.com  Sun Aug  7 21:29:58 2011
From: chadrebuck at gmail.com (Chad Rebuck)
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 15:29:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "No subject" archive entries found after arch
Message-ID: <CA+V5SC8hC1Zv63wqTFf7UOSOQEehApQmFXW0c-OQnrDo+d4T6w@mail.gmail.com>

I'm moving my list to a new server.  Generating the archive html pages
from the mbox file caused 26 messages with "No subject" to show up on
the Aug 2011 archive page.  Most of the posts that make up these
entries are in the mbox file with a date of 2002 or 2003.  The html
files are incomplete and contain only fragments of the original
message.  I didn't notice anything obviously wrong with the mbox
content in the few messages I tracked down.  Any suggestions on what
to look for?

/usr/lib/mailman/bin/arch a2-16v-list

here is the output of the Aug 2011 html page :

Messages sorted by: [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
More info on this list...
Starting: Mon Aug 1 07:08:50 CDT 2011
Ending: Sun Aug 7 13:52:35 CDT 2011
Messages: 29

[a2-16v-list] initial start problems   Eric Gambon
[a2-16v-list] initial start problems   Steven Arguello
[a2-16v-list] initial start problems   Eric Gambon
No subject
No subject
No subject
No subject
No subject
No subject

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug  8 08:48:54 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 23:48:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "No subject" archive entries found after arch
In-Reply-To: <CA+V5SC8hC1Zv63wqTFf7UOSOQEehApQmFXW0c-OQnrDo+d4T6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201108072348540421cea3a05b@MSAPIRO>

Chad Rebuck wrote:

>I'm moving my list to a new server.  Generating the archive html pages
>from the mbox file caused 26 messages with "No subject" to show up on
>the Aug 2011 archive page.  Most of the posts that make up these
>entries are in the mbox file with a date of 2002 or 2003.  The html
>files are incomplete and contain only fragments of the original
>message.  I didn't notice anything obviously wrong with the mbox
>content in the few messages I tracked down.  Any suggestions on what
>to look for?


Your archives/private/a2-16v-list.mbox/a2-16v-list.mbox file contains
unescaped "From " lines in message bodies.

Use /usr/lib/mailman/bin/cleanarch to find and fix these. Run

/usr/lib/mailman/bin/cleanarch --help for more information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug  8 08:44:15 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 23:44:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] exim says 'unrouteable' on new list [SOLVED]
In-Reply-To: <4E3F0DCB.5040002@shinyblue.net>
Message-ID: <PC195201108072344150781cea3a19c@MSAPIRO>

Rich wrote:
>
>After about 4 hours fiddling I'd managed to find a fix. I think the main 
>thing I was missing was that you have to run genaliases in order to 
>update the lookup file.


The reason you needed to run genaliases is that you created the list
before adding its domain to POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS. Had you
added the domain to POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS before creating the
list, you wouldn't have needed to run genaliases.


>I had read http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html but not found it 
>particularly enlightening, esp. the exim section.


If your exim router were configured as this howto suggests, you could
have MTA = None in mm_cfg.py, and you wouldn't need virtual-mailman
(or POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS), and new lists would just work.


>I had read a lot more, 
>too. Just search this list for "virutal domain" and you'll see how many 
>others have problems too, and I read through lots of those!
>
>In the end I found /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Exim4.Debian.gz which 
>was most helpful.
>
>For the benefit of anyone reading this, I have learnt:
>
>1. in mm_config, it says postfix but it means exim too. Unfortunate 
>lexical obfuscation ;-)


Only because you are apparently doing things the Debian way instead of
the recommended way.


>2. virtual domains look like quite a hassle with postfix, but with exim 
>they're easy as long as your lists all have unique names, regardless of 
>their domain (or you have to run 2 installs of mm)


And you are configuring Exim so that you need to do all the Postfix
hassle which is unnecessary if you do it the recommended way.


>3. running genaliases is needed to update existing lists.


If you are relying on MTA = 'Postfix' and POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
and you create the list before updating POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS,
this is correct.


>4. beyond the instructions in README.Exim4.Debian I added a line
>     add_virtualhost('my.virt.host.com','my.virt.host.com')
>     for each virtualhost. I'm not sure this is needed once it's listed 
>in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
>     but I'm not going to try to break it now I've finally got it working!


add_virtualhost directives have nothing directly to do with
virtual-mailman. They provide a Python dictionary mapping from 'web
host' to 'email host'. This is used to determine the email domain for
a created list when creating it from the web or via newlist without
specifying an email host. Also see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rl6 at shinyblue.net  Mon Aug  8 10:44:41 2011
From: rl6 at shinyblue.net (Rich Lott)
Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 09:44:41 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] exim says 'unrouteable' on new list [SOLVED]
In-Reply-To: <PC195201108072344150781cea3a19c@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201108072344150781cea3a19c@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4E3FA1F9.3070608@shinyblue.net>

Thanks for patient explanations.

I've changed my config to the Mailman Official Way, because it seems 
slightly cleaner than Debian's  (only have to edit exim config to add a 
new sub domain). Seems to be working...

Many thanks,

Rich.


On 08/08/11 07:44, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Rich wrote:
>> After about 4 hours fiddling I'd managed to find a fix. I think the main
>> thing I was missing was that you have to run genaliases in order to
>> update the lookup file.
>
> The reason you needed to run genaliases is that you created the list
> before adding its domain to POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS. Had you
> added the domain to POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS before creating the
> list, you wouldn't have needed to run genaliases.
>
>
>> I had read http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html but not found it
>> particularly enlightening, esp. the exim section.
>
> If your exim router were configured as this howto suggests, you could
> have MTA = None in mm_cfg.py, and you wouldn't need virtual-mailman
> (or POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS), and new lists would just work.
>
>
>> I had read a lot more,
>> too. Just search this list for "virutal domain" and you'll see how many
>> others have problems too, and I read through lots of those!
>>
>> In the end I found /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Exim4.Debian.gz which
>> was most helpful.
>>
>> For the benefit of anyone reading this, I have learnt:
>>
>> 1. in mm_config, it says postfix but it means exim too. Unfortunate
>> lexical obfuscation ;-)
>
> Only because you are apparently doing things the Debian way instead of
> the recommended way.
>
>
>> 2. virtual domains look like quite a hassle with postfix, but with exim
>> they're easy as long as your lists all have unique names, regardless of
>> their domain (or you have to run 2 installs of mm)
>
> And you are configuring Exim so that you need to do all the Postfix
> hassle which is unnecessary if you do it the recommended way.
>
>
>> 3. running genaliases is needed to update existing lists.
>
> If you are relying on MTA = 'Postfix' and POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
> and you create the list before updating POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS,
> this is correct.
>
>
>> 4. beyond the instructions in README.Exim4.Debian I added a line
>>      add_virtualhost('my.virt.host.com','my.virt.host.com')
>>      for each virtualhost. I'm not sure this is needed once it's listed
>> in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
>>      but I'm not going to try to break it now I've finally got it working!
>
> add_virtualhost directives have nothing directly to do with
> virtual-mailman. They provide a Python dictionary mapping from 'web
> host' to 'email host'. This is used to determine the email domain for
> a created list when creating it from the web or via newlist without
> specifying an email host. Also see the FAQ at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/lYA9>.
>


From chadrebuck at gmail.com  Tue Aug  9 04:19:31 2011
From: chadrebuck at gmail.com (Chad Rebuck)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 22:19:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "No subject" archive entries found after arch
In-Reply-To: <PC195201108072348540421cea3a05b@MSAPIRO>
References: <CA+V5SC8hC1Zv63wqTFf7UOSOQEehApQmFXW0c-OQnrDo+d4T6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195201108072348540421cea3a05b@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CA+V5SC9PALEUi4piWPANR4zPbihH49Tr2A238V1sJDTOfMbYwQ@mail.gmail.com>

That worked perfectly.  I've also located a handful of mbox files from
when the list was using a different domain and a different listserv
application.  Is there a way to import these multiple mbox list
archive messages into my mail archive?

I also may experiment a little with the arch behavior on a newly
created list for test purposes.


On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 2:48 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Chad Rebuck wrote:
>
>>I'm moving my list to a new server. ?Generating the archive html pages
>>from the mbox file caused 26 messages with "No subject" to show up on
>>the Aug 2011 archive page. ?Most of the posts that make up these
>>entries are in the mbox file with a date of 2002 or 2003. ?The html
>>files are incomplete and contain only fragments of the original
>>message. ?I didn't notice anything obviously wrong with the mbox
>>content in the few messages I tracked down. ?Any suggestions on what
>>to look for?
>
>
> Your archives/private/a2-16v-list.mbox/a2-16v-list.mbox file contains
> unescaped "From " lines in message bodies.
>
> Use /usr/lib/mailman/bin/cleanarch to find and fix these. Run
>
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/cleanarch --help for more information.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> ? ? ? ?The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California ? ?better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug  9 05:05:34 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 20:05:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "No subject" archive entries found after arch
In-Reply-To: <CA+V5SC9PALEUi4piWPANR4zPbihH49Tr2A238V1sJDTOfMbYwQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201108082005340687ff84c551@MSAPIRO>

Chad Rebuck wrote:

>That worked perfectly.  I've also located a handful of mbox files from
>when the list was using a different domain and a different listserv
>application.  Is there a way to import these multiple mbox list
>archive messages into my mail archive?


bin/arch --wipe listname [/path/to/mbox]

will initialize the archive with the messages in /path/to/mbox or the
default archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox if no path is
given.

Without the --wipe option, the messages in the mbox will be added to
the archive.

So you can maintain the separate mbox files and initialize the archive
from one and add the rest. If you do that, it is best to process the
default archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox last so that if
you ever rebuild the archive, you can process the files in the same
order and maintain the message numbers in the archive.

Or, you can simply concatenate the mbox files into a single, large
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file and then run

bin/arch --wipe listname.

Having done this myself both ways multiple times, I prefer the latter
method.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Tue Aug  9 20:21:46 2011
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 19:21:46 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] exim says 'unrouteable' on new list [SOLVED]
In-Reply-To: <4E3FA1F9.3070608@shinyblue.net>
References: <PC195201108072344150781cea3a19c@MSAPIRO>
	<4E3FA1F9.3070608@shinyblue.net>
Message-ID: <20110809182146.GI12921@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Mon, Aug 08, 2011 at 09:44:41AM +0100, Rich Lott wrote:
> Thanks for patient explanations.

That'll be Mark ;o)

> I've changed my config to the Mailman Official Way, because it seems  
> slightly cleaner than Debian's  (only have to edit exim config to add a  
> new sub domain). Seems to be working...

Debian Exim (pkg-exim4), can, almost, be made to work like Proper Exim
should, with a monolithic exim4.conf file, and a few tweaks to
/etc/{default,init.d}/exim4.

I can't remember where my patches are, but they're not in The Usual
Place, annoyingly. 


-- 
The trouble with the rat race is that, even if 
you win, you're still a rat

From ECHASE at providence.edu  Wed Aug  3 20:35:53 2011
From: ECHASE at providence.edu (Chase, Edward)
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 18:35:53 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User management via email?
Message-ID: <FD2FA876163F574AAAC45BD1A43961F72B67DE74@DAG01.providence.col>

Hello mailman-users,

I'm currently moving my organization's announcement mailing lists onto GNU-Mailman, in the past I've been able to script an email message to send to our mailing list software to subscribe an address to a list as part of my user creation process.

I thought that I had done this task as part of my initial testing, but I cannot find that I documented that at all.  My Google-fu is coming up very empty on the subject.  I've found a number of people asking the same question with few replies.  The best I found was a *dated* web page that states that user management is only possible via the web interface.

Is it possible to do user management via email at this time?

Thanks.


---
Edward Chase
Information Technology Department
Providence College


From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Wed Aug 10 03:00:57 2011
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 21:00:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User management via email?
In-Reply-To: <FD2FA876163F574AAAC45BD1A43961F72B67DE74@DAG01.providence.col>
References: <FD2FA876163F574AAAC45BD1A43961F72B67DE74@DAG01.providence.col>
Message-ID: <4E41D849.70201@wingfoot.org>

On 8/3/11 2:35 PM, Chase, Edward wrote:
> I thought that I had done this task as part of my initial testing,
> but I cannot find that I documented that at all.  My Google-fu is
> coming up very empty on the subject.  I've found a number of people
> asking the same question with few replies.  The best I found was a
> *dated* web page that states that user management is only possible
> via the web interface.
> 
> Is it possible to do user management via email at this time?
> 

Have you checked into $LOCALBASE/mailman/bin/add_members? You could
probably wrap a script around it easily enough.

usage:

/usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members
Add members to a list from the command line.

Usage:
    add_members [options] listname

Options:

    --regular-members-file=file
    -r file
        A file containing addresses of the members to be added, one
        address per line.  This list of people become non-digest
        members.  If file is `-', read addresses from stdin.  Note that
        -n/--non-digest-members-file are deprecated synonyms for this
option.

    --digest-members-file=file
    -d file
        Similar to above, but these people become digest members.

    --welcome-msg=<y|n>
    -w <y|n>
        Set whether or not to send the list members a welcome message,
        overriding whatever the list's `send_welcome_msg' setting is.

    --admin-notify=<y|n>
    -a <y|n>
        Set whether or not to send the list administrators a notification on
        the success/failure of these subscriptions, overriding whatever the
        list's `admin_notify_mchanges' setting is.

    --help
    -h
        Print this help message and exit.

    listname
        The name of the Mailman list you are adding members to.  It must
        already exist.

You must supply at least one of -r and -d options.  At most one of the
files can be `-'.

Best,
--Glenn

From ECHASE at providence.edu  Wed Aug 10 15:52:11 2011
From: ECHASE at providence.edu (Chase, Edward)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 13:52:11 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User management via email?
In-Reply-To: <4E41D849.70201@wingfoot.org>
References: <FD2FA876163F574AAAC45BD1A43961F72B67DE74@DAG01.providence.col>
	<4E41D849.70201@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <FD2FA876163F574AAAC45BD1A43961F72B68C46A@DAG01.providence.col>

Not exactly what I was hoping for unfortunately.  My user creation scripts are Powershell running in a Windows environment.  I was hoping to fire off an email to Mailman to subscribe the new user to the appropriate campus announcement list.  Maybe I'll get a bit creative and have the Powershell scripts create files to SCP over to the Mailman box and then use "add_members" via a cron job.

Thanks.

Edward Chase
Providence College
Information Technology



From: Glenn Sieb [mailto:ges+lists at wingfoot.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 9:01 PM
To: Chase, Edward; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] User management via email?

Have you checked into $LOCALBASE/mailman/bin/add_members? You could probably wrap a script around it easily enough.

usage:

/usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members
Add members to a list from the command line.

Usage:
    add_members [options] listname

Options:

    --regular-members-file=file
    -r file
        A file containing addresses of the members to be added, one
        address per line.  This list of people become non-digest
        members.  If file is `-', read addresses from stdin.  Note that
        -n/--non-digest-members-file are deprecated synonyms for this option.

    --digest-members-file=file
    -d file
        Similar to above, but these people become digest members.

    --welcome-msg=<y|n>
    -w <y|n>
        Set whether or not to send the list members a welcome message,
        overriding whatever the list's `send_welcome_msg' setting is.

    --admin-notify=<y|n>
    -a <y|n>
        Set whether or not to send the list administrators a notification on
        the success/failure of these subscriptions, overriding whatever the
        list's `admin_notify_mchanges' setting is.

    --help
    -h
        Print this help message and exit.

    listname
        The name of the Mailman list you are adding members to.  It must
        already exist.

You must supply at least one of -r and -d options.  At most one of the files can be `-'.

Best,
--Glenn

On 8/3/11 2:35 PM, Chase, Edward wrote:
> I thought that I had done this task as part of my initial testing, but 
> I cannot find that I documented that at all.  My Google-fu is coming 
> up very empty on the subject.  I've found a number of people asking 
> the same question with few replies.  The best I found was a
> *dated* web page that states that user management is only possible via 
> the web interface.
> 
> Is it possible to do user management via email at this time?
> 




From rclemings at gmail.com  Wed Aug 10 16:18:29 2011
From: rclemings at gmail.com (Russell Clemings)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 07:18:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and drupal
Message-ID: <CAN7RX0axbZnJtVSird9+NhcdD7ms2Rgfz1LpfV=t2u1rPuVkzg@mail.gmail.com>

I have a Drupal site and a number of Mailman lists (cPanel flavor) on
the same server and would like to set things up so users can
subscribe/unsubscribe and manage their subscriptions via the Drupal
site.

There appears to be an appropriate set of Drupal modules for that:
http://drupal.org/project/mailman_manager
http://drupal.org/node/195527 (user mailman register)
http://drupal.org/project/mailman_groups (maybe)

Can anyone out there vouch for them, or warn me away from them, or
suggest a better alternative?

The main user complaint I want to deal with is the fact that they now
have separate logins and passwords for the two systems. I also want to
use Drupal organic groups as the list archives, which I think I can do
by having a Drupal mailhandler mailbox subscribed to the lists. Not
sure how I will restrict access to the archives, however. Advice
welcome on that too.

From mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de  Wed Aug 10 16:24:36 2011
From: mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de (Mailman Admin)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 16:24:36 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User management via email?
In-Reply-To: <4E41D849.70201@wingfoot.org>
References: <FD2FA876163F574AAAC45BD1A43961F72B67DE74@DAG01.providence.col>
	<4E41D849.70201@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <4E4294A4.9090603@uni-konstanz.de>

Hi Glenn Sieb


On 08/10/2011 03:00 AM, Glenn Sieb wrote:
> On 8/3/11 2:35 PM, Chase, Edward wrote:
>> I thought that I had done this task as part of my initial testing,
>> but I cannot find that I documented that at all.  My Google-fu is
>> coming up very empty on the subject.  I've found a number of people
>> asking the same question with few replies.  The best I found was a
>> *dated* web page that states that user management is only possible
>> via the web interface.
>>
>> Is it possible to do user management via email at this time?
>>

Not user management, but you can subscribe via email.

You have to send a mail with FROM: set to the address you want to
subscribe, TO: set to listname-request at servername.domain and Subject set
to subscribe.

The used address will get a confirmation request.
On responding to that request it gets subscribed.


Perhaps this is sufficient for you.


Kind regards,
Christian Mack

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 10 16:40:41 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 07:40:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User management via email?
In-Reply-To: <FD2FA876163F574AAAC45BD1A43961F72B68C46A@DAG01.providence.col>
Message-ID: <PC195201108100740410515375d84ec@MSAPIRO>

Chase, Edward wrote:

>Not exactly what I was hoping for unfortunately.  My user creation scripts are Powershell running in a Windows environment.  I was hoping to fire off an email to Mailman to subscribe the new user to the appropriate campus announcement list.  Maybe I'll get a bit creative and have the Powershell scripts create files to SCP over to the Mailman box and then use "add_members" via a cron job.


You can send an email subscribe command for an arbitrary address:

 subscribe [password] [digest|nodigest] [address=<address>]
     Subscribe to this mailing list.  Your password must be given to
     unsubscribe or change your options, but if you omit the
     password, one will be generated for you.  You may be
     periodically reminded of your password.

     The next argument may be either: `nodigest' or `digest' (no
     quotes!). If you wish to subscribe an address other than the
     address you sent this request from, you may specify
     `address=<address>' (no brackets around the email address, and
     no quotes!)

or just spoof the From: in an email to the list-subscribe address.

However, either of these methods will probably require confirmation by
the user or approval by the admin or both depending on the list's
subscribe_policy.

The wrapper idea that Glen suggests may be simpler than you realize.
See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/uIA9> for a sample wrapper
designed to be called from a web server PHP or other script, but this
could be modified to work from an email piped to it via a .forward
file for example.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tom.browder at gmail.com  Wed Aug 10 20:15:32 2011
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 13:15:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] More virtual hosts woes: mail to
 listname-request@domain.org bounces with loop back
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz8VS-FW2U7NPGiA3zwqSAy494uq5HXS1xM5auxok9xz6Q@mail.gmail.com>

I had success on most fronts as discussed on the thread:

  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2011-August/072029.html

However, one of my testers tried to use the e-mail help request system
and got a bounce.  I just tried it and got the same thing.

I e-mailed "graytags-request at usafa-1965.org" (and also to
"graytags-request at lists.usafa-1965.org") and received this:

=====================>
This is the mail system at host vh1.mygnus.com.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.

                  The mail system

<Graytags-request at usafa-1965.org>: mail for usafa-1965.org loops back to myself

Final-Recipient: rfc822; Graytags-request at usafa-1965.org
Original-Recipient: rfc822;Graytags-request at usafa-1965.org
Action: failed
Status: 5.4.6
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; mail for usafa-1965.org loops back to myself

<=====================




-Tom

USAFA, CS-24, Class of 1965
Niceville, Florida, USA

From jbrownfirst at gmail.com  Wed Aug 10 08:46:22 2011
From: jbrownfirst at gmail.com (James Brown)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 06:46:22 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot to make work mailman correctly
Message-ID: <4E42293E.7080400@gmail.com>

I have a vds under Free-BSD-8.1-STABLE which I use for maintaining of
public sites and etc.
Under that vds I have a mailing system which consits from an exim-4.76
which receives and sends emails to/from local mail users and
dovecot-1.2.17 which lets get receiving post to email-clients.
I want to set up the Mailman for maintaining post lists.
Firstly, created subdomain 'list.somename.name' in my bind-settings. It
works correctly.
Then, after installing the Mailman from ports, I set up my Apache to
work with it. My Apache wokrs correctly too.
Then I checked and changed my exim configuration file and etc and tested
list verification command with the next result:
>  exim -bt news at list.somename.name
> Address rewritten as: news at list.somename.name
> news at list.somename.name
>     <-- news at list.somename.name
>     <-- news at list.somename.name
>     <-- news at list.somename.name
>   router = localuser, transport = local_delivery


Further I created a site-wide mailing list and a mailing list as in
described in /usr/local/share/doc/mailman/mailman-install.txt but it is
not works well.
It is possible to subscribe to list throwgh the web-form, it is possible
to receive emails after that for subsribing confirmation to local email
users which I tried to subsribe, is is possible to confirm subscription
through the web but not through email and it is impossible to receive
emails from list and to see the archive sending to list throupgh the web.

With accordance to the above I have some questions:
1) What I do wrong?
2) Where is I need to indicate aliases after creating the new list - in
/etc/aliases (which is a symbolic link to /etc/mail/aliases in FreeBSD)
or in /usr/local/etc/exim/aliases?
3) Does it need to create in the /usr/local/etc/exim/passwd email-users
such as maillistname at list.somename.name or not?
I don't read any about it in
/usr/local/share/doc/mailman/mailman-install.txt and here
http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html and firstly I did not create 'em.
I had the next exim logs that time:

> H=mail.somename.name [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] sender verify fail for <news-bounces at list.somename.name>: all relevant MX records point to non-existent hosts
> H=mail.somename.name [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] F=<news-bounces at list.somename.name> rejected RCPT <mailman-owner at list.somename.name>: Sender verify failed
> H=mail.somename.name [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] sender verify fail for <news-bounces at list.somename.name>: all relevant MX records point to non-existent hosts
>  H=mail.somename.name [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] F=<news-bounces at list.somename.name> rejected RCPT <adm at somename.name>: Sender verify failed
> H=router45-readme.domainname1.net ([0.0.0.0]) [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] F=<adm at somename.name> rejected RCPT <mailman-request at list.somename.name>: all relevant MX records point to non-existent hosts

4) If I need to create an email user for lists in
/usr/local/etc/exim/passwd, how I can indicate to the Mailman its
password for authentificaton? Or what I need to do instead?
5) If I need to create an email user for lists in
/usr/local/etc/exim/passwd, what is home directory of it I need to indicate?
As I think, I need to indicate one of the directories existing in
/usr/local/mailman/archives, probably
/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/nameoflist?
I created public list named "news" through the web-form, but it was
created the next symbolic link:
> ls -l /usr/local/mailman/archives/public
>> lrwxr-xr-x  1 mailman  mailman   news -> /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/news
not a directory.
So I have the next too:
> ls -l /usr/local/mailman/archives/private
> total 8
> drwxrwsr-x  2 root     mailman  512  mailman
> drwxrwsr-x  2 root     mailman  512  mailman.mbox
> drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman  mailman  512  news
> drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman  mailman  512  news.mbox

When I tried to indicate it as the email user "news" home directory in
/usr/local/etc/exim/passwd and when I tried to indicate
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/news or
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/news.mbox as it, after sending an
email to the list I had the next exim logs:

> 1Qqh5b-0001Qz-Kx == news at list.somename.name (news at list.somename.name, news at list.somename.name) <news at list.somename.name> R=localuser T=local_delivery defer (13): Permission denied: while creating mailbox /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/news.mbox/mbox
>  1Qqh5b-0001Qz-Kx == news at list.somename.name (news at list.somename.name, news at list.somename.name) <news at list.somename.name> R=localuser T=local_delivery defer (-52): Retry time not yet reached

6) As I use an email system for my usual needs consists from exim +
dovecot, do I need to include the dovecot in working with my Mailman
email list by any method?

The current configuration file of my exim attached.


Yours,

                                         James

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From bill at flanagan-consulting.com  Wed Aug 10 18:56:13 2011
From: bill at flanagan-consulting.com (William Flanagan)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 12:56:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I convert all subscribers to non-digest at once?
Message-ID: <4E42B82D.1040709@flanagan-consulting.com>

After loading 2,200 addresses and configuring mailman, I see that the 
subscribers are all checked for digest delivery.  Since this is a 
distribution-only list, I need them to be non-digest.  However, I don't 
see a control for that, nor anything on the topic in the wiki or email 
archive.  Please tell me I don't have to recreate the list and how to 
remove the digest check marks in the user management list.
Thanks.
Bill

From wf at flanagan-consulting.com  Thu Aug 11 01:29:04 2011
From: wf at flanagan-consulting.com (WFlanagan)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 19:29:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SOLVED:  Digest bit unset
Message-ID: <4E431440.8090508@flanagan-consulting.com>

Realized that I could unsub all list members using the files from which 
I had loaded them.  This did not change the extensive configurations 
made previously.  Changed the selection of "Digest" to "Regular" and 
reloaded addresses.

regards.


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 11 19:01:19 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 10:01:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot to make work mailman correctly
In-Reply-To: <4E42293E.7080400@gmail.com>
References: <4E42293E.7080400@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E440ADF.2020705@msapiro.net>

On 8/9/2011 11:46 PM, James Brown wrote:
> I have a vds under Free-BSD-8.1-STABLE which I use for maintaining of
> public sites and etc.
> Under that vds I have a mailing system which consits from an exim-4.76
> which receives and sends emails to/from local mail users and
> dovecot-1.2.17 which lets get receiving post to email-clients.
> I want to set up the Mailman for maintaining post lists.
> Firstly, created subdomain 'list.somename.name' in my bind-settings. It
> works correctly.
> Then, after installing the Mailman from ports, I set up my Apache to
> work with it. My Apache wokrs correctly too.
> Then I checked and changed my exim configuration file and etc and tested
> list verification command with the next result:
>>  exim -bt news at list.somename.name
>> Address rewritten as: news at list.somename.name
>> news at list.somename.name
>>     <-- news at list.somename.name
>>     <-- news at list.somename.name
>>     <-- news at list.somename.name
>>   router = localuser, transport = local_delivery


For some reason, your 'mailman' router is not meeting all it's
conditions and Exim is proceeding to 'localuser'. Is your definition

MAILMAN_HOME=/usr/local/mailman

correct? I.e. are your lists in the directory /usr/local/mailman/lists?


> Further I created a site-wide mailing list and a mailing list as in
> described in /usr/local/share/doc/mailman/mailman-install.txt but it is
> not works well.
> It is possible to subscribe to list throwgh the web-form, it is possible
> to receive emails after that for subsribing confirmation to local email
> users which I tried to subsribe, is is possible to confirm subscription
> through the web but not through email


Because email to mailman doesn't work as above.


> and it is impossible to receive
> emails from list and to see the archive sending to list throupgh the web.


Presumably this is again because mail TO the list is not received by
Mailman.


> With accordance to the above I have some questions:
> 1) What I do wrong?


For some reason, Exim is not routing list mail per the 'mailman' router.
The only thing I see is that the "require_files =
MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck" is not satisfied, presumably
because MAILMAN_HOME is not defined to the correct path.


> 2) Where is I need to indicate aliases after creating the new list - in
> /etc/aliases (which is a symbolic link to /etc/mail/aliases in FreeBSD)
> or in /usr/local/etc/exim/aliases?


You don't need aliases.  List mail should be handled by the 'mailmen'
router and the 'mailman' transport.


> 3) Does it need to create in the /usr/local/etc/exim/passwd email-users
> such as maillistname at list.somename.name or not?


No.


> I don't read any about it in
> /usr/local/share/doc/mailman/mailman-install.txt and here
> http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html and firstly I did not create 'em.
> I had the next exim logs that time:
> 
>> H=mail.somename.name [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] sender verify fail for <news-bounces at list.somename.name>: all relevant MX records point to non-existent hosts
>> H=mail.somename.name [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] F=<news-bounces at list.somename.name> rejected RCPT <mailman-owner at list.somename.name>: Sender verify failed
>> H=mail.somename.name [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] sender verify fail for <news-bounces at list.somename.name>: all relevant MX records point to non-existent hosts
>>  H=mail.somename.name [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] F=<news-bounces at list.somename.name> rejected RCPT <adm at somename.name>: Sender verify failed
>> H=router45-readme.domainname1.net ([0.0.0.0]) [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] F=<adm at somename.name> rejected RCPT <mailman-request at list.somename.name>: all relevant MX records point to non-existent hosts


The sender verify errors are a different issue. It appears that your
list domain (list.somename.name) is not in

domainlist local_domains = lsearch;/usr/local/etc/exim/domains

so is not considered a local domain.


> 4) If I need to create an email user for lists in
> /usr/local/etc/exim/passwd, how I can indicate to the Mailman its
> password for authentificaton? Or what I need to do instead?


You don't need local users for Mailman.


> 5) If I need to create an email user for lists in
> /usr/local/etc/exim/passwd, what is home directory of it I need to indicate?


You don't need this.


> As I think, I need to indicate one of the directories existing in
> /usr/local/mailman/archives, probably
> /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/nameoflist?
> I created public list named "news" through the web-form, but it was
> created the next symbolic link:
>> ls -l /usr/local/mailman/archives/public
>>> lrwxr-xr-x  1 mailman  mailman   news -> /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/news
> not a directory.


The symlink is correct.


> So I have the next too:
>> ls -l /usr/local/mailman/archives/private
>> total 8
>> drwxrwsr-x  2 root     mailman  512  mailman
>> drwxrwsr-x  2 root     mailman  512  mailman.mbox
>> drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman  mailman  512  news
>> drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman  mailman  512  news.mbox


This looks correct.


> When I tried to indicate it as the email user "news" home directory in
> /usr/local/etc/exim/passwd and when I tried to indicate
> /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/news or
> /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/news.mbox as it, after sending an
> email to the list I had the next exim logs:
> 
>> 1Qqh5b-0001Qz-Kx == news at list.somename.name (news at list.somename.name, news at list.somename.name) <news at list.somename.name> R=localuser T=local_delivery defer (13): Permission denied: while creating mailbox /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/news.mbox/mbox
>>  1Qqh5b-0001Qz-Kx == news at list.somename.name (news at list.somename.name, news at list.somename.name) <news at list.somename.name> R=localuser T=local_delivery defer (-52): Retry time not yet reached


This is all because the mail is not using the 'mailman' router. Fix that
problem and everything should work.


> 6) As I use an email system for my usual needs consists from exim +
> dovecot, do I need to include the dovecot in working with my Mailman
> email list by any method?


No.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 11 19:50:54 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 10:50:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] More virtual hosts woes: mail
	tolistname-request@domain.org bounces with loop back
In-Reply-To: <CAFMGiz8VS-FW2U7NPGiA3zwqSAy494uq5HXS1xM5auxok9xz6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC19520110811105054067124a76895@MSAPIRO>

Tom Browder wrote:
>
>However, one of my testers tried to use the e-mail help request system
>and got a bounce.  I just tried it and got the same thing.
>
>I e-mailed "graytags-request at usafa-1965.org" (and also to
>"graytags-request at lists.usafa-1965.org") and received this:
[...]
><Graytags-request at usafa-1965.org>: mail for usafa-1965.org loops back to myself


There is some issue with the graytags-request entries in
data/virtual-mailman. What are they?

Or, there is some conflict in Postfix regarding the graytags-request
address.

If either lists.usafa-1965.org or usafa-1965.org is a local domain
(i.e. in Postfix mydestination) mail to that domain should work. If
they are both virtual-domains, the list's host_name should be in
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS, and only that domain should be used for
list mail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dmacedo at gmail.com  Thu Aug 11 21:01:18 2011
From: dmacedo at gmail.com (Douglas D. J. de Macedo)
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 16:01:18 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User Management
Message-ID: <CALJTtBFFHdmSpC+pPq=e7wsJNseDjz-GsUSFKQkB8FdQp5q9ig@mail.gmail.com>

Hi people,

I would like to know more about user management on Mailman system.

My problem is that I have more than 50 lists and every time time that one of
the users go out of the company I have to go one per one list removing this
user. And the other way, when a new person get a job here I have to sign
their email list per list ..

So there are some tool to help me?

Thanks in advance.

Doug

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Fri Aug 12 17:12:21 2011
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 16:12:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User Management
In-Reply-To: <CALJTtBFFHdmSpC+pPq=e7wsJNseDjz-GsUSFKQkB8FdQp5q9ig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALJTtBFFHdmSpC+pPq=e7wsJNseDjz-GsUSFKQkB8FdQp5q9ig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110812151221.GL12921@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 04:01:18PM -0300, Douglas D. J. de Macedo wrote:
> My problem is that I have more than 50 lists and every time time that one of
> the users go out of the company I have to go one per one list removing this
> user.

remove_members ?

(-a is useful)

> And the other way, when a new person get a job here I have to sign
> their email list per list ..

list_lists | while read L; do add_members -r /path/to/file ${L}; done

might do the trick.


-- 
"Like any Englishman armed with a cricket bat, he was doomed to fail."
    -- Guy Ladenburg (prosecuting counsel, comments on Paul Kelleher's
        first attempt to behead a statue of Margaret Thatcher)

From pennguin at mac.com  Fri Aug 12 17:01:08 2011
From: pennguin at mac.com (Rob McLear)
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 11:01:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User Management
In-Reply-To: <CALJTtBFFHdmSpC+pPq=e7wsJNseDjz-GsUSFKQkB8FdQp5q9ig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALJTtBFFHdmSpC+pPq=e7wsJNseDjz-GsUSFKQkB8FdQp5q9ig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FBB94E6E-C678-4C63-9913-B0AC36802B86@mac.com>

I don't have a solution for adding new users easily, but removing them is easy from the command line:

./remove_members --fromall john at gmail.com

-Rob

On Aug 11, 2011, at 3:01 PM, Douglas D. J. de Macedo wrote:

> Hi people,
> 
> I would like to know more about user management on Mailman system.
> 
> My problem is that I have more than 50 lists and every time time that one of
> the users go out of the company I have to go one per one list removing this
> user. And the other way, when a new person get a job here I have to sign
> their email list per list ..
> 
> So there are some tool to help me?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Doug
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pennguin%40mac.com


From ifetch at du.edu  Sun Aug 14 09:09:14 2011
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 01:09:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman throughput
Message-ID: <32A2A2BA-EE39-410A-A011-E993F4DB84E9@du.edu>

Hello,

I am trying to gage the capability of a Mailman virtual machine, which we will be moving our lists to. I'd like to do my best to size and tune this VM, and it's Postfix and Mailman installation, before putting it in production, and potentially having to troubleshoot and tune in a hurry.

What is a reasonable / realistic way to benchmark a Mailman installation? Are there details of other similarly sized instlalations and throughput numbers which I can compare?

We have 1300 mailing lists, and average 68000 posts to lists per day. We have lists as large as 7000 subscribers, but I'd say that the average size of a list is 500 subscribers (this number is a rough guess, based on some crunching of Mailman logs).

THe new VM will receive messages for mailing lists using Postfix. Mailman hands off to a separate box to deliver to list recipients. So Postfix on the Mailman VM will not be busy trying to deliver to subscribers.

I am sending some test messages through the VM, but don't know whether this is useful or pointless, in telling me how capable the VM is.

The VM processed 10000 messages in an hour and 10 minutes. The messages went to two lists, one with 25 recipients and the other with 500 recipients. The VM (Linux) peaked at a load average of 4 (2 VCPUs), and was using 800Mb of it's 2G ERAM for IO caching. I could add more resources, but it doesn't look like they would get used.

Initially (maybe for the first 15-20 minutes) the Postfix queue had to catch up submitting messages to Mailman. After that, qfiles/in was empty, and the work which remained was to process qfiles/out and SMTP the outbound messages to the relay. I raised SMTP_MAX_RCPTS from 500 to 1000, but this did not seem to make a difference.

SO I may be able to tune Postfix handing off to Mailman, as well as Mailman handing off to the SMTP relay. Any suggestoins here?


The current Mailman box runs SOlaris / Sparc. The Mailman processes use 1.2G of memory, and CPU (this is a Sunfire 880, 4 Ultrasparc III procs) hovers around 5%.


Thanks,

Ivan.























.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Aug 14 19:39:57 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 10:39:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman throughput
In-Reply-To: <32A2A2BA-EE39-410A-A011-E993F4DB84E9@du.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1952011081410395703751693fa30@MSAPIRO>

Ivan Fetch wrote:
>
>What is a reasonable / realistic way to benchmark a Mailman installation? Are there details of other similarly sized instlalations and throughput numbers which I can compare?


I don't have any data for a comparable size installation. The benchmark
test you describe seems reasonable to me.

See below for some comments.


>I am sending some test messages through the VM, but don't know whether this is useful or pointless, in telling me how capable the VM is.


It seems this should be useful.


>The VM processed 10000 messages in an hour and 10 minutes. The messages went to two lists, one with 25 recipients and the other with 500 recipients. The VM (Linux) peaked at a load average of 4 (2 VCPUs), and was using 800Mb of it's 2G ERAM for IO caching. I could add more resources, but it doesn't look like they would get used.
>
>Initially (maybe for the first 15-20 minutes) the Postfix queue had to catch up submitting messages to Mailman. After that, qfiles/in was empty, and the work which remained was to process qfiles/out and SMTP the outbound messages to the relay. I raised SMTP_MAX_RCPTS from 500 to 1000, but this did not seem to make a difference.


There are several things going on.

1) Processing mail through Postfix to Mailman. This is almost entirely
Postfix. Delivery is piping the message to the mail wrapper which
involves very little Mailman processing - only making a queue entry
and storing it in qfiles/in. Any tuning would have to be in Postfix,
but I don't know what would be applicable beyond ensuring Postfix has
enough resources do do the job.

2) Mailman's IncommingRunner picking up the message from qfiles/in,
processing in through the pipeline and queuing the result in
qfiles/out and qfiles/archive. Also if the list is digestable, the
message will be added to the list's digest.mbox and possibly a digest
will be triggered on size.

3) Mailman's ArchRunner picking up the message from qfiles/archive and
adding it to the list's archive.

4) Mailman's OutgoingRunner picking up the message from qfiles/out and
delivering it to the outgoing MTA.


>SO I may be able to tune Postfix handing off to Mailman, as well as Mailman handing off to the SMTP relay. Any suggestoins here?


It seems the major hurdle is in processing the 'out' queue. It is
possible to slice OutgoingRunner to provide some parallelism in this
process and that may speed things up, but I suspect that a lot of the
time is in network communications between OutgoingRunner and the
remote Postfix and that slicing OutgoingRunner may not help much, but
it would be worth rerunning your benchmark with 2 or 4 outgoing runner
slices to see if it helps.

Your raising of SMTP_MAX_RCPTS from 500 to 1000 would not have any
effect because your larger list had only 500 members so no outgoing
message had more than 500 recipients. Even if this were not the case,
I don't think raising SMTP_MAX_RCPTS would make much difference.
Messages are sent via SMTP transactions which look like

MAIL FROM ...
  reply
RCPT TO ...
  reply
RCPT TO ...
  reply
... repeated for each recipient
DATA
  reply
<message text>
  reply

If SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500, and there are a total of 500 recipients, the
above is done once with 500 recipients. If SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 50, the
above would be done 10 times with 50 recipients per transaction which
would result in 9 additional MAIL FROM, DATA and <message text>
interactions, but I don't think this would add significantly to the
processing time.

There are some MTA tuning tips in the FAQ
<http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3>, but some are only applicable to Mailman
2.0 so be careful.

The main outgoing MTA performance killer is doing DNS verification on
recipient domains during SMTP from Mailman. This should be avoided.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ifetch at du.edu  Sun Aug 14 22:39:03 2011
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 14:39:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman throughput
In-Reply-To: <PC1952011081410395703751693fa30@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC1952011081410395703751693fa30@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <F98566AC-968B-48D1-8138-7C5F2B46D7D0@du.edu>

Hello,

THanks Mark, I appreciate this. MOre below:

On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:39 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> It seems the major hurdle is in processing the 'out' queue. It is
> possible to slice OutgoingRunner to provide some parallelism in this
> process and that may speed things up, but I suspect that a lot of the
> time is in network communications between OutgoingRunner and the
> remote Postfix and that slicing OutgoingRunner may not help much, but
> it would be worth rerunning your benchmark with 2 or 4 outgoing runner
> slices to see if it helps.
> 
BY slicing, do you mean setting MAX_DELIVERY_THREADS in mm_cfg.py (restarting Mailman of course)? I did this, with values of 2 and 4, and if it made a difference for my smaller benchmark of 5000 messages, to one list of 25 recipients, it was only seconds of improvement.


> There are some MTA tuning tips in the FAQ
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3>, but some are only applicable to Mailman
> 2.0 so be careful.
> 
The only thing I can think of which may help, given that Mailman's Postfix is not delivering to subscribers, is to adjust concurrency or backoff settings for the local delivery agent, which is piping messages into Mailman's post script. I'm not sure whether Postfix still uses the backoff algorythm, when using local and pipe though.


> The main outgoing MTA performance killer is doing DNS verification on
> recipient domains during SMTP from Mailman. This should be avoided.

Using a local DNS cache cut my 5000 messages to a 25 recipient list, from 10 minutes down to 8 & 1/2 minutes. Even avoiding looking up the same hand full of hosts over and over again, helps.


I have to amend my earlier statement about our receiving 68000 posts per day - I was not careful enough when mining the post log; a lot of the posts are Mailman retrying delivery for tempfailed subscribers. So we do not see 68000 distinct posts, but we are doing a lot of redelivery attempts. Apparently we need to tune bounce processing for lists - this can be challenging to get right, and seems to require individual attention per list. I suppose I could have Mailman retry delivery less often, and if we have something like an outage of our own relays, I just trigger a retry by restarting the queue runners.


Thanks,

Ivan.























.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 15 00:15:55 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 15:15:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman throughput
In-Reply-To: <F98566AC-968B-48D1-8138-7C5F2B46D7D0@du.edu>
References: <PC1952011081410395703751693fa30@MSAPIRO>
	<F98566AC-968B-48D1-8138-7C5F2B46D7D0@du.edu>
Message-ID: <4E48491B.4070703@msapiro.net>

On 8/14/2011 1:39 PM, Ivan Fetch wrote:
> 
> On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:39 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> It seems the major hurdle is in processing the 'out' queue. It is
>> possible to slice OutgoingRunner to provide some parallelism in this
>> process and that may speed things up, but I suspect that a lot of the
>> time is in network communications between OutgoingRunner and the
>> remote Postfix and that slicing OutgoingRunner may not help much, but
>> it would be worth rerunning your benchmark with 2 or 4 outgoing runner
>> slices to see if it helps.
>>
> BY slicing, do you mean setting MAX_DELIVERY_THREADS in mm_cfg.py (restarting Mailman of course)? I did this, with values of 2 and 4, and if it made a difference for my smaller benchmark of 5000 messages, to one list of 25 recipients, it was only seconds of improvement.


No. Threaded delivery in SMTPDirect.py was an experimental feature in
Mailman 2.0. It was never implemented for Mailman 2.1 although the
setting and its documentation were not removed from Defaults.py. Setting
this in mm_cfg.py has no effect. Any difference would be due to random
variation or other factors.

What I meant was to put something like

try:
    QRUNNERS.remove(('OutgoingRunner', 1))
    QRUNNERS.append(('OutgoingRunner', 2))
except ValueError:
    pass

in mm_cfg.py and restart Mailman. The above will cause Mailman to start
two copies of OutgoingRunner with each processing half of the hashed
queue space. See the

#####
# Qrunner defaults
#####

section in Defaults.py for more info.


[...]
> I have to amend my earlier statement about our receiving 68000 posts per day - I was not careful enough when mining the post log; a lot of the posts are Mailman retrying delivery for tempfailed subscribers. So we do not see 68000 distinct posts, but we are doing a lot of redelivery attempts. Apparently we need to tune bounce processing for lists - this can be challenging to get right, and seems to require individual attention per list. I suppose I could have Mailman retry delivery less often, and if we have something like an outage of our own relays, I just trigger a retry by restarting the queue runners.


Just FYI, bounce processing never sees the retries until such time as
Mailman's retry processing gives up on the delivery (default after 5 days).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ifetch at du.edu  Mon Aug 15 01:25:52 2011
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 17:25:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman throughput
In-Reply-To: <4E48491B.4070703@msapiro.net>
References: <PC1952011081410395703751693fa30@MSAPIRO>
	<F98566AC-968B-48D1-8138-7C5F2B46D7D0@du.edu>
	<4E48491B.4070703@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <A9514FC0-662C-4D2F-8CA8-05AE2F9F6B08@du.edu>

Hello,

On Aug 14, 2011, at 4:15 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> No. Threaded delivery in SMTPDirect.py was an experimental feature in
> Mailman 2.0. It was never implemented for Mailman 2.1 although the
> setting and its documentation were not removed from Defaults.py. Setting
> this in mm_cfg.py has no effect. Any difference would be due to random
> variation or other factors.
> 
> What I meant was to put something like
> 
> try:
>    QRUNNERS.remove(('OutgoingRunner', 1))
>    QRUNNERS.append(('OutgoingRunner', 2))
> except ValueError:
>    pass
> 
> in mm_cfg.py and restart Mailman. The above will cause Mailman to start
> two copies of OutgoingRunner with each processing half of the hashed
> queue space. See the
> 
> #####
> # Qrunner defaults
> #####
> 
> section in Defaults.py for more info.
> 


Ok, I did this, and verified that more outgoing processes were started (in the qrunnenr log, and with ps). Testing 5000 messages to a list with 25 recipients took:
8 & 1/2 minutes with 1 outgoing slice
5 & 1/2 minutes with 2 slices
exactly 5 minutes with 4 slices.

I noticed that the incoming qrunner was using 10% CPU (according to the pcpu column of ps) even after qfiles/in was empty, and after all 5000 messages were processed. I wonder what the incoming runner is doing - any ideas there?


> Just FYI, bounce processing never sees the retries until such time as
> Mailman's retry processing gives up on the delivery (default after 5 days).

OK, this just means that a message which is tempfailing will have to get retried for 5 days, before normal bounce processing rules can (potentially) act on it. I suspect a lot of these addresses are our own accounts which are tempfailing because they are disabled, in some sort of transition, or have broken LDAP records - I will look at smtp-failure some more.

Thanks,

Ivan.























.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 15 02:03:44 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 17:03:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman throughput
In-Reply-To: <A9514FC0-662C-4D2F-8CA8-05AE2F9F6B08@du.edu>
References: <PC1952011081410395703751693fa30@MSAPIRO>
	<F98566AC-968B-48D1-8138-7C5F2B46D7D0@du.edu>
	<4E48491B.4070703@msapiro.net>
	<A9514FC0-662C-4D2F-8CA8-05AE2F9F6B08@du.edu>
Message-ID: <4E486260.1090200@msapiro.net>

On 8/14/2011 4:25 PM, Ivan Fetch wrote:
> 
> I noticed that the incoming qrunner was using 10% CPU (according to the pcpu column of ps) even after qfiles/in was empty, and after all 5000 messages were processed. I wonder what the incoming runner is doing - any ideas there?


If I am not mistaken, pcpu is an average, not a current value. I.e., it
is total CPU time divided by elapsed time since process initiation for
the given process. What does %CPU from 'top' tell you?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Aug 15 04:44:18 2011
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 21:44:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman throughput
In-Reply-To: <F98566AC-968B-48D1-8138-7C5F2B46D7D0@du.edu>
References: <PC1952011081410395703751693fa30@MSAPIRO>
	<F98566AC-968B-48D1-8138-7C5F2B46D7D0@du.edu>
Message-ID: <4E488802.3000107@shub-internet.org>

On 08/14/2011 03:39 PM, Ivan Fetch wrote:

>> There are some MTA tuning tips in the FAQ
>> <http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3>, but some are only applicable to Mailman
>> 2.0 so be careful.

The majority of the MTA tuning tips that I know of should be applicable 
to most any mailing list manager, since they are oriented towards 
helping the MTA better deal with large amounts of outgoing mail, and 
optimizing certain types of behaviors that are common with most mailing 
lists.

But I'll have to re-fresh my memory of what is written there.

>> The main outgoing MTA performance killer is doing DNS verification on
>> recipient domains during SMTP from Mailman. This should be avoided.
>
> Using a local DNS cache cut my 5000 messages to a 25 recipient list,
> from 10 minutes down to 8& 1/2 minutes. Even avoiding looking up the
> same hand full of hosts over and over again, helps.

Generally speaking, if there are any real-time queries being done by 
your MTA, you want those done against the message as it comes into your 
mail system the first time -- this includes checking black lists, 
checking content, or anything else.

You want to run a separate instance of your MTA for handling your 
outbound mail and it should listen only to a special port on the 
127.0.0.1 "loopback" interface where Mailman can speak directly to it, 
and that special instance should have pretty much all DNS queries and 
real-time checks turned off.  After all, those things should have been 
done when the message was checked on inbound and shouldn't need to be 
checked again on outbound.

> I have to amend my earlier statement about our receiving 68000 posts
> per day - I was not careful enough when mining the post log; a lot of
> the posts are Mailman retrying delivery for tempfailed subscribers. So
> we do not see 68000 distinct posts, but we are doing a lot of redelivery
> attempts. Apparently we need to tune bounce processing for lists - this
> can be challenging to get right, and seems to require individual
> attention per list. I suppose I could have Mailman retry delivery less
> often, and if we have something like an outage of our own relays, I just
> trigger a retry by restarting the queue runners.

If Mailman is dealing with tempfails, then you've done something wrong. 
  The MTA should be blindly accepting whatever Mailman has to send, and 
then the MTA should be dealing with tempfails -- it's one step closer to 
wherever the problem might be, and it's more likely to be tuned for that 
kind of behaviour.

For example, most modern MTAs give you the ability to set up separate 
queues for given outbound targets, which are kept apart from all the 
other regular mail being handled.  This way you can set up "local" 
queues in your MTA that may have different resource handling rules or 
different retry algorithms, as compared to queues to external sites that 
might be known for being troublesome.

We were doing this kind of thing at AOL back in the mid-90s, and this 
has only gotten easier since.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From ifetch at du.edu  Mon Aug 15 06:24:38 2011
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 22:24:38 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman throughput
In-Reply-To: <4E488802.3000107@shub-internet.org>
References: <PC1952011081410395703751693fa30@MSAPIRO>
	<F98566AC-968B-48D1-8138-7C5F2B46D7D0@du.edu>
	<4E488802.3000107@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <162BEBBA-83D6-4877-8F20-60ECCEA7B67C@du.edu>

Hi Brad,

On Aug 14, 2011, at 8:44 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> The majority of the MTA tuning tips that I know of should be applicable 
> to most any mailing list manager, since they are oriented towards 
> helping the MTA better deal with large amounts of outgoing mail, and 
> optimizing certain types of behaviors that are common with most mailing 
> lists.
> 
> But I'll have to re-fresh my memory of what is written there.
> 

> Generally speaking, if there are any real-time queries being done by 
> your MTA, you want those done against the message as it comes into your 
> mail system the first time -- this includes checking black lists, 
> checking content, or anything else.
> 
> You want to run a separate instance of your MTA for handling your 
> outbound mail and it should listen only to a special port on the 
> 127.0.0.1 "loopback" interface where Mailman can speak directly to it, 
> and that special instance should have pretty much all DNS queries and 
> real-time checks turned off.  After all, those things should have been 
> done when the message was checked on inbound and shouldn't need to be 
> checked again on outbound.
> 
Brad, I think we are already accomplishing a lot of this minimalism, since the MTA on the Mailman VM is only accepting the message via SMTP, then handing it off to Mailman via the Postfix aliases. The spam and other checks are done before hand, by another upstream gateway MTA. That gateway then hands mailing list messages off to the Mailman box.

> 
> If Mailman is dealing with tempfails, then you've done something wrong. 
>  The MTA should be blindly accepting whatever Mailman has to send, and 
> then the MTA should be dealing with tempfails -- it's one step closer to 
> wherever the problem might be, and it's more likely to be tuned for that 
> kind of behaviour.
> 
> For example, most modern MTAs give you the ability to set up separate 
> queues for given outbound targets, which are kept apart from all the 
> other regular mail being handled.  This way you can set up "local" 
> queues in your MTA that may have different resource handling rules or 
> different retry algorithms, as compared to queues to external sites that 
> might be known for being troublesome.
> 
> We were doing this kind of thing at AOL back in the mid-90s, and this 
> has only gotten easier since.


This is true for subscribers which are not part of our organization - the MTA which Mailman relays to accepts the messages, and then deals with any delivery issues. However, accounts for which this MTA is the final destination, will tempfail under certain conditions, like mismatched attributes in an LDAP record, or an issue with the mailstore.

For better or worse, we are moving a lot of our mailboxes to mail forwards over the next few months - this will move the rest of these tempfails out of Mailman's SMTP / retry queue, and into the downstream relay (where they belong).


Thanks,

Ivan.























.

From ifetch at du.edu  Mon Aug 15 06:12:05 2011
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 22:12:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Are Mailman's files sparse?
Message-ID: <210755A8-0BC7-48BD-816D-59DB060C3882@du.edu>

Hello,

As part of copying our Mailman data from one box to another, I wanted to verify: are any of Mailman's data files, sparse, E.G> the .pck files and other files in the data directory?

It looks to me like the answer to this is no.

Thanks,

Ivan.
























.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Aug 15 09:49:33 2011
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 02:49:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman throughput
In-Reply-To: <162BEBBA-83D6-4877-8F20-60ECCEA7B67C@du.edu>
References: <PC1952011081410395703751693fa30@MSAPIRO>
	<F98566AC-968B-48D1-8138-7C5F2B46D7D0@du.edu>
	<4E488802.3000107@shub-internet.org>
	<162BEBBA-83D6-4877-8F20-60ECCEA7B67C@du.edu>
Message-ID: <4E48CF8D.6090200@shub-internet.org>

On 08/14/2011 11:24 PM, Ivan Fetch wrote:

> Brad, I think we are already accomplishing a lot of this minimalism,
> since the MTA on the Mailman VM is only accepting the message via SMTP,
> then handing it off to Mailman via the Postfix aliases. The spam and
> other checks are done before hand, by another upstream gateway MTA. That
> gateway then hands mailing list messages off to the Mailman box.

You're talking about inbound, and how you have outsourced many of these 
kinds of checks to other boxes.  That's fine as far as it goes, but I 
was talking about *outbound*, from Mailman to the world of recipients.


You are likely to have a certain number of messages coming into your 
system which will require a certain amount of processing to scan them 
for viruses and spam, etc....

However, on outbound, you will presumably have this same number of 
messages multiplied by the number of recipients.

If that's an average of ten recipients per list, then you have a factor 
of ten increase in the amount of work done to scan those messages for 
viruses and spam -- and since all those messages are largely identical 
in those regards, that's all wasted work, and therefore that's all work 
that you want to avoid to the greatest degree possible.

As you scale up to thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, 
etc... numbers of recipients, the more work you can avoid doing on the 
outbound side, the better.

> This is true for subscribers which are not part of our organization
> -  the MTA which Mailman relays to accepts the messages, and then deals
> with any delivery issues. However, accounts for which this MTA is the
> final destination, will tempfail under certain conditions, like
> mismatched attributes in an LDAP record, or an issue with the mailstore.

And those are precisely the circumstances under which the MTA should not 
be handing a tempfail condition back to Mailman.  It should go ahead and 
blindly accept those messages and accept responsibility for them, and 
then it should deal with those tempfail cases internally.

Mailman is really, really bad at handling large queues for all the same 
reasons that MTAs from twenty years ago were bad at handling large 
queues -- they're largely single threaded, disk bound, and use a single 
outbound directory for all file locking and message queueing, which 
means that they are absolutely decimated when it comes to having to scan 
a linear linked list on disk when trying to store the next file or pull 
up the next file.

Modern MTAs are fully multi-threaded, they keep their active queue in 
memory as opposed to putting them on disk, and they hash the disk queues 
for inactive messages over a large distributed set of directories so if 
one process is working on the files in a given directory then the odds 
are vanishingly small that any other process would be blocked waiting on 
the lock for that directory.


You wouldn't put a Model-T Ford into a Formula-1 race today, and 
likewise you should not be depending on ancient queueing methods as your 
bottleneck for handling all your outgoing mail.

Or, if you have no choice but to depend on them at all, then you should 
minimize your dependence on them as much as you possibly can.

> For better or worse, we are moving a lot of our mailboxes to mail
> forwards over the next few months - this will move the rest of these
> tempfails out of Mailman's SMTP / retry queue, and into the downstream
> relay (where they belong).

 From Mailman's perspective, your local MTA *IS* the downstream relay, 
and it should not be causing these kinds of loads to be put on Mailman.

Pull as much of the queueing as possible out of Mailman and put it into 
your local MTA.  From there, it becomes an MTA problem, and it doesn't 
matter to Mailman whether the mailboxes are local or remote.


I say all this as a specialist in designing and building large-scale 
mail systems (such as AOL), a long-term member of the Mailman project, 
and a member of the postmaster team for python.org where all the 
official Mailman mailing lists are hosted -- using Mailman.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Aug 15 10:39:48 2011
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 03:39:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman throughput
In-Reply-To: <4E48CF8D.6090200@shub-internet.org>
References: <PC1952011081410395703751693fa30@MSAPIRO>
	<F98566AC-968B-48D1-8138-7C5F2B46D7D0@du.edu>
	<4E488802.3000107@shub-internet.org>
	<162BEBBA-83D6-4877-8F20-60ECCEA7B67C@du.edu>
	<4E48CF8D.6090200@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <4E48DB54.7040107@shub-internet.org>

On 08/15/2011 02:49 AM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> You're talking about inbound, and how you have outsourced many of these
> kinds of checks to other boxes. That's fine as far as it goes, but I was
> talking about *outbound*, from Mailman to the world of recipients.
>
>
> You are likely to have a certain number of messages coming into your
> system which will require a certain amount of processing to scan them
> for viruses and spam, etc....
>
> However, on outbound, you will presumably have this same number of
> messages multiplied by the number of recipients.

I just thought of an analogy that I think will be very useful here. 
Input and output are two related, but very different processes -- both 
for computers as well as humans.  Having a pee is a different process 
from drinking a beer -- related, but still different.

Generally speaking, you want to think about mixing your inputs and your 
outputs -- and this gets more and more important as you scale up.  A 
single person who pees in the Colorado River is not going to materially 
impact the water quality of the downstream communities, but if an entire 
city were to dump untreated sewage into the river on an ongoing basis, 
that would be a different matter.


Likewise with e-mail, what works well for you as a small site is 
probably going to be something that you find doesn't necessarily work so 
well as you get bigger and bigger.  Mixing your inputs and outputs is 
one of those factors.

For example, when processing incoming e-mail, you want to apply one set 
of rules for handling viruses, but you want to apply a different set for 
outbound mail.  In both cases, you want to notify the internal person at 
your site about the situation and let them work on how to deal with the 
issue, but they are the recipient on inbound and they are the sender on 
outbound -- so you can't take a simple "always notify the sender" or 
"always notify the recipient" policy.

If you have performance complaints, then you have to look at where your 
bottlenecks are and what those bottlenecks do to you.  Eliminate the 
biggest bottlenecks first, then work on the next one.  If cost is a 
factor, then try to find big bottlenecks that you can fix that won't 
cost as much money, and keep working on eliminating those key 
bottlenecks as you find whatever the new issue is.  Again, mixing inputs 
and outputs tends to be one of those key bottlenecks, both overall and 
with regards to return-on-investment.


In the case of Mailman, we can reasonably guarantee that we follow the 
GIGO principle -- Garbage In, Garbage Out.  If you can keep the inbound 
flow of e-mail clean, then there's nothing that Mailman does that should 
make the outbound flow dirty again, so you can safely by-pass all the 
checks that you would normally make at the MTA level for outbound mail 
from Mailman.

At least, as far as your local MTA is concerned, you can eliminate all 
those checks.  If the checks are done at your edge, then changes to your 
local MTA won't have any impact on whether or not that work is done and 
how much it costs you, but at least you can avoid causing unnecessary 
additional load on Mailman itself.


Of course, the nature of mailing lists means that Mailman will multiply 
by orders of magnitude the amount of work to be done on outbound as 
compared to inbound, so if you can eliminate any of those unnecessary 
checks then that will tend to be a huge win overall with regards to both 
performance and monetary cost -- you won't have to devote so much money 
and resources to building a larger system to handle the flow, if you can 
make sure that the Mailman part of that flow is already clean and 
therefore doesn't need to be re-checked.



So, the general rules are don't mix the inputs and outputs, especially 
as you scale up.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From jbrownfirst at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 14:08:03 2011
From: jbrownfirst at gmail.com (James Brown)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:08:03 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot to make work mailman correctly
In-Reply-To: <4E440ADF.2020705@msapiro.net>
References: <4E42293E.7080400@gmail.com> <4E440ADF.2020705@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4E490C23.1090200@gmail.com>

On 11.08.2011 17:01, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 8/9/2011 11:46 PM, James Brown wrote:
>> I have a vds under Free-BSD-8.1-STABLE which I use for maintaining of
>> public sites and etc.
>> Under that vds I have a mailing system which consits from an exim-4.76
>> which receives and sends emails to/from local mail users and
>> dovecot-1.2.17 which lets get receiving post to email-clients.
>> I want to set up the Mailman for maintaining post lists.
>> Firstly, created subdomain 'list.somename.name' in my bind-settings. It
>> works correctly.
>> Then, after installing the Mailman from ports, I set up my Apache to
>> work with it. My Apache wokrs correctly too.
>> Then I checked and changed my exim configuration file and etc and tested
>> list verification command with the next result:
>>>  exim -bt news at list.somename.name
>>> Address rewritten as: news at list.somename.name
>>> news at list.somename.name
>>>     <-- news at list.somename.name
>>>     <-- news at list.somename.name
>>>     <-- news at list.somename.name
>>>   router = localuser, transport = local_delivery
> 
> 
> For some reason, your 'mailman' router is not meeting all it's
> conditions and Exim is proceeding to 'localuser'. 

I found what was wrong in my exim configuration and now I have the next:
>  exim -bt news at list.somename.name
> Address rewritten as: news at list.somename.name
> news at list.somename.name
>     <-- news at list.somename.name
>     <-- news at list.somename.name
>   router = mailman, transport = mailman


Is your definition
> 
> MAILMAN_HOME=/usr/local/mailman
> 
> correct? I.e. are your lists in the directory /usr/local/mailman/lists?
> 
Yes, it is. That is a configuration creating when installing the Mailman
on the FreeBSD system from ports.
Maybe it needs to me to install the Mailman from sources into home
directory?
> 
>> Further I created a site-wide mailing list and a mailing list as in
>> described in /usr/local/share/doc/mailman/mailman-install.txt but it is
>> not works well.
>> It is possible to subscribe to list throwgh the web-form, it is possible
>> to receive emails after that for subsribing confirmation to local email
>> users which I tried to subsribe, is is possible to confirm subscription
>> through the web but not through email
> 
> 
> Because email to mailman doesn't work as above.
> 
I improve the above but now I have the next:
>  1QsvUg-0004Bz-06 <= adm at somename.name H=hostname ([0.0.0.0]) [76.11.218.145] P=esmtpsa X=TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256 A=plain:adm at somename.name S=744 id=4E49050B.5050201 at somename.name from <adm at somename.name> for news at list.somename.name
>  1QsvUg-0004Bz-06 ** news at list.somename.name (news at list.somename.name) <news at list.somename.name> R=mailman T=mailman: Child process of mailman transport returned 2 from command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
>  1QsvUg-0004Bz-06 Completed

The subscribes receives the next emails:
> This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
> 
> A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
> recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:
> 
>   news at list.somename.name
>     local delivery failed


So, there are neither emails in the list (through e-mail) nor in the
web-archive.
> 
>> and it is impossible to receive
>> emails from list and to see the archive sending to list throupgh the web.
> 
> 
> Presumably this is again because mail TO the list is not received by
> Mailman.
> 
> 
>> With accordance to the above I have some questions:
>> 1) What I do wrong?
> 
> 
> For some reason, Exim is not routing list mail per the 'mailman' router.
> The only thing I see is that the "require_files =
> MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck" is not satisfied, presumably
> because MAILMAN_HOME is not defined to the correct path.
> 
ls -l /usr/local/mailman
total 36
drwxrwsr-x  11 root  mailman  1536  8 ??? 16:50 Mailman
drwxrwsr-x   4 root  mailman   512  8 ??? 12:09 archives
drwxrwsr-x   2 root  mailman  1024  8 ??? 12:09 bin
drwxrwsr-x   2 root  mailman   512  8 ??? 12:09 cgi-bin
drwxrwsr-x   2 root  mailman   512  8 ??? 12:09 cron
drwxrwsr-x   2 root  mailman   512 10 ??? 09:36 data
drwxrwsr-x   2 root  mailman   512  8 ??? 12:09 icons
drwxrwsr-x   4 root  mailman   512  8 ??? 12:45 lists
drwxrwsr-x   2 root  mailman   512 15 ??? 12:00 locks
drwxrwsr-x   2 root  mailman   512 13 ??? 07:30 logs
drwxrwsr-x   2 root  mailman   512  8 ??? 12:56 mail
drwxrwsr-x  38 root  mailman   512  8 ??? 12:09 messages
drwxrwsr-x   2 root  mailman   512  8 ??? 12:09 pythonlib
drwxrwsr-x  11 root  mailman   512  8 ??? 12:26 qfiles
drwxrwsr-x   2 root  mailman   512  8 ??? 12:09 scripts
drwxrwsr-x   2 root  mailman   512  8 ??? 12:09 spam
drwxrwsr-x  39 root  mailman   512  8 ??? 12:09 templates
drwxrwsr-x   4 root  mailman   512  8 ??? 12:09 tests

pkg_info -L mailman-2.1.14_5

Information for mailman-2.1.14_5:

Files:
/usr/local/www/icons/PythonPowered.png
/usr/local/www/icons/mailman.jpg
/usr/local/www/icons/mm-icon.png
/usr/local/www/icons/powerlogo.gif
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.pyc
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.pyc
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.pyc
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/__init__.py
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/__init__.pyc
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.pyc
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Autoresponder.py
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Autoresponder.pyc
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.pyc
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/AOL.pyc
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/AOL.py
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/BouncerAPI.py
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/BouncerAPI.pyc
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/Caiwireless.py
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/Caiwireless.pyc

and etc.
Is it wrong?
> 
>> 2) Where is I need to indicate aliases after creating the new list - in
>> /etc/aliases (which is a symbolic link to /etc/mail/aliases in FreeBSD)
>> or in /usr/local/etc/exim/aliases?
> 
> 
> You don't need aliases.  List mail should be handled by the 'mailmen'
> router and the 'mailman' transport.
> 
I.e. I don't need create aliases which indicates by mailman after
creating lists such the next:
"The mailing list `news' has been created via the through-the-web
interface.  In order to complete the activation of this mailing list, the
proper /etc/aliases (or equivalent) file must be updated.  The program
`newaliases' may also have to be run.

Here are the entries for the /etc/aliases file:

news:              "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post news"
news-admin:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin news"
news-bounces:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces news"
news-confirm:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm news"
news-join:         "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join news"
news-leave:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave news"
news-owner:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner news"
news-request:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request news"
news-subscribe:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe news"
news-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe news""


> 
>> 3) Does it need to create in the /usr/local/etc/exim/passwd email-users
>> such as maillistname at list.somename.name or not?
> 
> 
> No.
> 
Very thanks for information, I have deleted those users.
> 
>> I don't read any about it in
>> /usr/local/share/doc/mailman/mailman-install.txt and here
>> http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html and firstly I did not create 'em.
>> I had the next exim logs that time:
>>
>>> H=mail.somename.name [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] sender verify fail for <news-bounces at list.somename.name>: all relevant MX records point to non-existent hosts
>>> H=mail.somename.name [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] F=<news-bounces at list.somename.name> rejected RCPT <mailman-owner at list.somename.name>: Sender verify failed
>>> H=mail.somename.name [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] sender verify fail for <news-bounces at list.somename.name>: all relevant MX records point to non-existent hosts
>>>  H=mail.somename.name [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] F=<news-bounces at list.somename.name> rejected RCPT <adm at somename.name>: Sender verify failed
>>> H=router45-readme.domainname1.net ([0.0.0.0]) [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] F=<adm at somename.name> rejected RCPT <mailman-request at list.somename.name>: all relevant MX records point to non-existent hosts
> 
> 
> The sender verify errors are a different issue. It appears that your
> list domain (list.somename.name) is not in
> 
> domainlist local_domains = lsearch;/usr/local/etc/exim/domains
> 
> so is not considered a local domain.
> 
But my list domain indicated there (the second line):
$cat domains
somename.name:somename.name:adm at somename.name:no
list.somename.name:list.somename.name:adm at somename.name:no
Maybe it needs to use another syntax than for the main email domain (the
first line)?

> 
>> 4) If I need to create an email user for lists in
>> /usr/local/etc/exim/passwd, how I can indicate to the Mailman its
>> password for authentificaton? Or what I need to do instead?
> 
> 
> You don't need local users for Mailman.
> 
> 
>> 5) If I need to create an email user for lists in
>> /usr/local/etc/exim/passwd, what is home directory of it I need to indicate?
> 
> 
> You don't need this.
> 
Thanks
> 
>> As I think, I need to indicate one of the directories existing in
>> /usr/local/mailman/archives, probably
>> /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/nameoflist?
>> I created public list named "news" through the web-form, but it was
>> created the next symbolic link:
>>> ls -l /usr/local/mailman/archives/public
>>>> lrwxr-xr-x  1 mailman  mailman   news -> /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/news
>> not a directory.
> 
> 
> The symlink is correct.
> 
> 
>> So I have the next too:
>>> ls -l /usr/local/mailman/archives/private
>>> total 8
>>> drwxrwsr-x  2 root     mailman  512  mailman
>>> drwxrwsr-x  2 root     mailman  512  mailman.mbox
>>> drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman  mailman  512  news
>>> drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman  mailman  512  news.mbox
> 
> 
> This looks correct.
> 
> 
>> When I tried to indicate it as the email user "news" home directory in
>> /usr/local/etc/exim/passwd and when I tried to indicate
>> /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/news or
>> /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/news.mbox as it, after sending an
>> email to the list I had the next exim logs:
>>
>>> 1Qqh5b-0001Qz-Kx == news at list.somename.name (news at list.somename.name, news at list.somename.name) <news at list.somename.name> R=localuser T=local_delivery defer (13): Permission denied: while creating mailbox /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/news.mbox/mbox
>>>  1Qqh5b-0001Qz-Kx == news at list.somename.name (news at list.somename.name, news at list.somename.name) <news at list.somename.name> R=localuser T=local_delivery defer (-52): Retry time not yet reached
> 
> 
> This is all because the mail is not using the 'mailman' router. Fix that
> problem and everything should work.
> 
But now, after fixing, it have new errors (see above).
> 
>> 6) As I use an email system for my usual needs consists from exim +
>> dovecot, do I need to include the dovecot in working with my Mailman
>> email list by any method?
> 
> 
> No.
> 
Thanks

From barry at python.org  Mon Aug 15 15:45:01 2011
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 09:45:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Are Mailman's files sparse?
In-Reply-To: <210755A8-0BC7-48BD-816D-59DB060C3882@du.edu>
References: <210755A8-0BC7-48BD-816D-59DB060C3882@du.edu>
Message-ID: <20110815094501.3ff1b945@resist.wooz.org>

On Aug 14, 2011, at 10:12 PM, Ivan Fetch wrote:

>As part of copying our Mailman data from one box to another, I wanted to
>verify: are any of Mailman's data files, sparse, E.G> the .pck files and
>other files in the data directory?
>
>It looks to me like the answer to this is no.

Correct.
-Barry

From ifetch at du.edu  Mon Aug 15 19:23:01 2011
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 11:23:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman throughput
In-Reply-To: <4E48CF8D.6090200@shub-internet.org>
References: <PC1952011081410395703751693fa30@MSAPIRO>
	<F98566AC-968B-48D1-8138-7C5F2B46D7D0@du.edu>
	<4E488802.3000107@shub-internet.org>
	<162BEBBA-83D6-4877-8F20-60ECCEA7B67C@du.edu>
	<4E48CF8D.6090200@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <1C5037E2-8120-4445-BB9A-5FDC05EC963B@du.edu>

Hi Brad,

On Aug 15, 2011, at 1:49 AM, Brad Knowles wrote:

On 08/14/2011 11:24 PM, Ivan Fetch wrote:

Brad, I think we are already accomplishing a lot of this minimalism,
since the MTA on the Mailman VM is only accepting the message via SMTP,
then handing it off to Mailman via the Postfix aliases. The spam and
other checks are done before hand, by another upstream gateway MTA. That
gateway then hands mailing list messages off to the Mailman box.

You're talking about inbound, and how you have outsourced many of these
kinds of checks to other boxes.  That's fine as far as it goes, but I
was talking about *outbound*, from Mailman to the world of recipients.


You are likely to have a certain number of messages coming into your
system which will require a certain amount of processing to scan them
for viruses and spam, etc....

However, on outbound, you will presumably have this same number of
messages multiplied by the number of recipients.

If that's an average of ten recipients per list, then you have a factor
of ten increase in the amount of work done to scan those messages for
viruses and spam -- and since all those messages are largely identical
in those regards, that's all wasted work, and therefore that's all work
that you want to avoid to the greatest degree possible.

As you scale up to thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands,
etc... numbers of recipients, the more work you can avoid doing on the
outbound side, the better.


OK - now we're on the same page. :) The MTA which Mailman relays to, does not repeat processes like virus / spam scanning. We are re-working our gateways and relays over the next few months, to further separate out these roles. E.G. Quarantine of spam will be handled before a message hits Mailman, not after the message has been exploded to list subscribers.



This is true for subscribers which are not part of our organization
-  the MTA which Mailman relays to accepts the messages, and then deals
with any delivery issues. However, accounts for which this MTA is the
final destination, will tempfail under certain conditions, like
mismatched attributes in an LDAP record, or an issue with the mailstore.

And those are precisely the circumstances under which the MTA should not
be handing a tempfail condition back to Mailman.  It should go ahead and
blindly accept those messages and accept responsibility for them, and
then it should deal with those tempfail cases internally.

We are definitely moving to this (MTA will accept what ever Mailman gives it). For the next few months, we will have some local accounts tempfailing, until we get off of Sun IMS or JSMS or what ever the product is named today. Part of why the relayis tempfailing, is because we hapen to be using a relay which is also a mailstore.



Mailman is really, really bad at handling large queues for all the same
reasons that MTAs from twenty years ago were bad at handling large
queues -- they're largely single threaded, disk bound, and use a single
outbound directory for all file locking and message queueing, which
means that they are absolutely decimated when it comes to having to scan
a linear linked list on disk when trying to store the next file or pull
up the next file.

Modern MTAs are fully multi-threaded, they keep their active queue in
memory as opposed to putting them on disk, and they hash the disk queues
for inactive messages over a large distributed set of directories so if
one process is working on the files in a given directory then the odds
are vanishingly small that any other process would be blocked waiting on
the lock for that directory.

AH, good to know RE: Mailman queueing. SO, the only reason why things should be in qfiles/retry, woudl be something like a relay being unavailable.


For better or worse, we are moving a lot of our mailboxes to mail
forwards over the next few months - this will move the rest of these
tempfails out of Mailman's SMTP / retry queue, and into the downstream
relay (where they belong).

From Mailman's perspective, your local MTA *IS* the downstream relay,
and it should not be causing these kinds of loads to be put on Mailman.

Pull as much of the queueing as possible out of Mailman and put it into
your local MTA.  From there, it becomes an MTA problem, and it doesn't
matter to Mailman whether the mailboxes are local or remote.

WHen you say "local MTA" you don't mean strictly local to the Mailman box right? I believe you mean local as in a separate relay box.


I say all this as a specialist in designing and building large-scale
mail systems (such as AOL), a long-term member of the Mailman project,
and a member of the postmaster team for python.org<http://python.org> where all the
official Mailman mailing lists are hosted -- using Mailman.


Thanks Brad, for your time on this, and your later analogy RE: input and output.

- Ivan























.

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 16 00:16:50 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 15:16:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot to make work mailman correctly
In-Reply-To: <4E490C23.1090200@gmail.com>
References: <4E42293E.7080400@gmail.com> <4E440ADF.2020705@msapiro.net>
	<4E490C23.1090200@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E499AD2.2060404@msapiro.net>

On 8/15/2011 5:08 AM, James Brown wrote:
> On 11.08.2011 17:01, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> For some reason, your 'mailman' router is not meeting all it's
>> conditions and Exim is proceeding to 'localuser'. 
> 
> I found what was wrong in my exim configuration and now I have the next:
>>  exim -bt news at list.somename.name
>> Address rewritten as: news at list.somename.name
>> news at list.somename.name
>>     <-- news at list.somename.name
>>     <-- news at list.somename.name
>>   router = mailman, transport = mailman


OK. This is now good.


[...]
>>
> I improve the above but now I have the next:
>>  1QsvUg-0004Bz-06 <= adm at somename.name H=hostname ([0.0.0.0]) [76.11.218.145] P=esmtpsa X=TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256 A=plain:adm at somename.name S=744 id=4E49050B.5050201 at somename.name from <adm at somename.name> for news at list.somename.name
>>  1QsvUg-0004Bz-06 ** news at list.somename.name (news at list.somename.name) <news at list.somename.name> R=mailman T=mailman: Child process of mailman transport returned 2 from command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
>>  1QsvUg-0004Bz-06 Completed


Status 2 from the /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman command is a group
mismatch error. Your Exim configuration definition of the 'mailman'
transport contains the line

  group = MAILMAN_GROUP

and this is defined by the macro

  MAILMAN_GROUP=mailman

This group, 'mailman', does not match the expected group compiled into
(or configured in by some FreeBSD magic) the
/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman wrapper.

The command wrote a helpful error message to stderr explaining what
group invoked it and what group it expected, but Exim neither logged it
nor reported it to the user.

To see this message, run the command

  sudo -u mailman /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post

This will produce a message like

Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
wrapper script to be executed as group "xxxx", but
the system's mail server executed the mail script as
group "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
script as group "xxxx", or re-run configure,
providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mailman'.

This will tell you the expected group which I have indicated as xxxx.
Then you can either change the definition in Exim to

  MAILMAN_GROUP=xxxx

or perform what ever FreeBSD magic will change the wrapper's expected
group to mailman.


> The subscribes receives the next emails:
>> This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
>>
>> A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
>> recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:
>>
>>   news at list.somename.name
>>     local delivery failed
> 
> 
> So, there are neither emails in the list (through e-mail) nor in the
> web-archive.
>>
>>> and it is impossible to receive
>>> emails from list and to see the archive sending to list throupgh the web.
>>
>>
>> Presumably this is again because mail TO the list is not received by
>> Mailman.
>>
>>
>>> With accordance to the above I have some questions:
>>> 1) What I do wrong?
>>
>>
>> For some reason, Exim is not routing list mail per the 'mailman' router.
>> The only thing I see is that the "require_files =
>> MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck" is not satisfied, presumably
>> because MAILMAN_HOME is not defined to the correct path.
>>
> ls -l /usr/local/mailman
> total 36
[...]
> drwxrwsr-x   4 root  mailman   512  8 ??? 12:45 lists
[...]
> 
> and etc.
> Is it wrong?


Whatever was wrong was fixed by whatever you did to make Exim invoke the
'mailman' router for list mail. You need do nothing more.


>>
>>> 2) Where is I need to indicate aliases after creating the new list - in
>>> /etc/aliases (which is a symbolic link to /etc/mail/aliases in FreeBSD)
>>> or in /usr/local/etc/exim/aliases?
>>
>>
>> You don't need aliases.  List mail should be handled by the 'mailmen'
>> router and the 'mailman' transport.
>>
> I.e. I don't need create aliases which indicates by mailman after
> creating lists such the next:
> "The mailing list `news' has been created via the through-the-web
> interface.  In order to complete the activation of this mailing list, the
> proper /etc/aliases (or equivalent) file must be updated.  The program
> `newaliases' may also have to be run.
> 
> Here are the entries for the /etc/aliases file:
> 
> news:              "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post news"
> news-admin:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin news"
> news-bounces:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces news"
> news-confirm:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm news"
> news-join:         "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join news"
> news-leave:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave news"
> news-owner:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner news"
> news-request:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request news"
> news-subscribe:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe news"
> news-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe news""


You get this message because you have not put

MTA = None

in mm_cfg.py. You can either put that line in mm_cfg.py or ignore the
message about aliases when you create a list.


[...]
>>> I don't read any about it in
>>> /usr/local/share/doc/mailman/mailman-install.txt and here
>>> http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html and firstly I did not create 'em.
>>> I had the next exim logs that time:
>>>
>>>> H=mail.somename.name [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] sender verify fail for <news-bounces at list.somename.name>: all relevant MX records point to non-existent hosts
>>>> H=mail.somename.name [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] F=<news-bounces at list.somename.name> rejected RCPT <mailman-owner at list.somename.name>: Sender verify failed
>>>> H=mail.somename.name [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] sender verify fail for <news-bounces at list.somename.name>: all relevant MX records point to non-existent hosts
>>>>  H=mail.somename.name [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] F=<news-bounces at list.somename.name> rejected RCPT <adm at somename.name>: Sender verify failed
>>>> H=router45-readme.domainname1.net ([0.0.0.0]) [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] F=<adm at somename.name> rejected RCPT <mailman-request at list.somename.name>: all relevant MX records point to non-existent hosts
>>
>>
>> The sender verify errors are a different issue. It appears that your
>> list domain (list.somename.name) is not in
>>
>> domainlist local_domains = lsearch;/usr/local/etc/exim/domains
>>
>> so is not considered a local domain.
>>
> But my list domain indicated there (the second line):
> $cat domains
> somename.name:somename.name:adm at somename.name:no
> list.somename.name:list.somename.name:adm at somename.name:no
> Maybe it needs to use another syntax than for the main email domain (the
> first line)?


I'm not sure why you were getting the "Sender verify failed" error, but
that too is apparently already fixed as it is not now occurring.

It looks to me as if the only remaining things are to put

MTA = None

in mm_cfg.py and to fix the group mismatch error.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From informatica at actiu.net  Tue Aug 16 09:35:55 2011
From: informatica at actiu.net (Narcis Garcia - GiLUG)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 09:35:55 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User Management
In-Reply-To: <CALJTtBFFHdmSpC+pPq=e7wsJNseDjz-GsUSFKQkB8FdQp5q9ig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALJTtBFFHdmSpC+pPq=e7wsJNseDjz-GsUSFKQkB8FdQp5q9ig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E4A1DDB.2080305@actiu.net>

*Y*ou can run this command in the server:

for CurrentList in $(list_lists --bare) ; do echo "somebody at example.net" 
| add_members -r - $CurrentList ; done

(see /add_members/ manual page for more details, and also /remove_members/)


Al 11/08/11 21:01, En/na Douglas D. J. de Macedo ha escrit:
> Hi people,
>
> I would like to know more about user management on Mailman system.
>
> My problem is that I have more than 50 lists and every time time that one of
> the users go out of the company I have to go one per one list removing this
> user. And the other way, when a new person get a job here I have to sign
> their email list per list ..
>
> So there are some tool to help me?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Doug
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/informatica%40actiu.net

From dumpsterdiver at tonyakay.com  Mon Aug 15 23:36:30 2011
From: dumpsterdiver at tonyakay.com (dumpsterdiver)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 17:36:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] stagger send
Message-ID: <753A12A0-7C39-4C44-8CC5-764D10AC3E8D@tonyakay.com>

Hi, my hosting service just let me know that I have exceeded their allowable emails per hours send limit.  They suggested I use a mailing list that can stagger my sends.  Does Mail Man do this and how?  I'd love to continue using this platform.  Thanks!



From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 16 19:28:27 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 10:28:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] stagger send
In-Reply-To: <753A12A0-7C39-4C44-8CC5-764D10AC3E8D@tonyakay.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201108161028270687ad44688a@MSAPIRO>

dumpsterdiver wrote:

>Hi, my hosting service just let me know that I have exceeded their allowable emails per hours send limit.  They suggested I use a mailing list that can stagger my sends.  Does Mail Man do this and how?  I'd love to continue using this platform.  Thanks!


There is no way in standard Mailman to throttle or stagger delivery,
but there is a patch in the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/j4A9> that
could be installed by your hosting provider in it's Mailman to limit
delivery from Mailman to a predetermined maximum number of messages
per given time period.

This patch may not be satisfactory for a hosting provider situation
because it would apply globally to the entire Mailman installation
rather than "per user", but they might be willing to consider it.

On the other hand, if you are exceeding their limit because you have
more than the limit subscribers to your list, and one post results in
sending over the limit, you might be able to convince them that while
a single post exceeds your limit for that hour, you only post once a
day, or twice a week or ... so your average rate is still way less
than the limit so they shouldn't penalize you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ECHASE at providence.edu  Wed Aug 17 03:21:32 2011
From: ECHASE at providence.edu (Chase, Edward)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 01:21:32 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email address subscribed to many annoucement lists
 but only recieves one copy on an annoucement sent to multiple lists
Message-ID: <FD2FA876163F574AAAC45BD1A43961F72B6ADEF1@DAG02.providence.col>

Hi there,

The long subject pretty much states my issue.  I have an email address that is subscribed to many moderated announcement lists in my organization.  If a message is sent to more than one list, I only receive the first copy that gets approved.

I've found section 7.2 in the user documentation in the wiki (http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+2.1+Members+Manual#Mailman2.1MembersManual-7.2HowcanIavoidgettingduplicatemessages%3F%28duplicatesoption%29) but am not sure this is applies to this situation.  It's not like these emails are being sent to both me and the list address.  They are being sent to list1, list2, list3, and list4.  I happen to be on all of them for monitoring purposes.  I'm sure there are others within my organization that are on more than one of these lists.  We have administrators that like to see that their message has gone out to all the student announcement lists.

Your feedback is most appreciated.

Thanks.

Edward Chase
Providence College
Information Technology


From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Wed Aug 17 03:51:54 2011
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 21:51:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email address subscribed to many annoucement
 lists but only recieves one copy on an annoucement sent to multiple lists
In-Reply-To: <FD2FA876163F574AAAC45BD1A43961F72B6ADEF1@DAG02.providence.col>
References: <FD2FA876163F574AAAC45BD1A43961F72B6ADEF1@DAG02.providence.col>
Message-ID: <4E4B1EBA.9020002@Damon-Family.org>

On 8/16/11 9:21 PM, Chase, Edward wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> The long subject pretty much states my issue.  I have an email address that is subscribed to many moderated announcement lists in my organization.  If a message is sent to more than one list, I only receive the first copy that gets approved.
>
> I've found section 7.2 in the user documentation in the wiki (http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+2.1+Members+Manual#Mailman2.1MembersManual-7.2HowcanIavoidgettingduplicatemessages%3F%28duplicatesoption%29) but am not sure this is applies to this situation.  It's not like these emails are being sent to both me and the list address.  They are being sent to list1, list2, list3, and list4.  I happen to be on all of them for monitoring purposes.  I'm sure there are others within my organization that are on more than one of these lists.  We have administrators that like to see that their message has gone out to all the student announcement lists.
>
> Your feedback is most appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Edward Chase
> Providence College
> Information Technology
>
Could the address be a gmail address? Gmail looks at message-Ids and
automatically removes duplicates, and the same initial email to multiple
lists, will all have the same message-id.

-- 
Richard Damon


From rclemings at gmail.com  Wed Aug 17 04:22:59 2011
From: rclemings at gmail.com (Russell Clemings)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 19:22:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email address subscribed to many annoucement
 lists but only recieves one copy on an annoucement sent to multiple lists
In-Reply-To: <4E4B1EBA.9020002@Damon-Family.org>
References: <FD2FA876163F574AAAC45BD1A43961F72B6ADEF1@DAG02.providence.col>
	<4E4B1EBA.9020002@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID: <CAN7RX0ZWad1Pq7J_GwWy99MP+Cet7JxxLQRdFi1PC49_42oUOA@mail.gmail.com>

Entering something in the non-digest options/sibling
lists/regular_exclude_lists box on the list admin page could also
cause this behavior, I believe.

rac

On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 6:51 PM, Richard Damon <Richard at damon-family.org> wrote:
> On 8/16/11 9:21 PM, Chase, Edward wrote:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> The long subject pretty much states my issue. ?I have an email address that is subscribed to many moderated announcement lists in my organization. ?If a message is sent to more than one list, I only receive the first copy that gets approved.
>>
>> I've found section 7.2 in the user documentation in the wiki (http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+2.1+Members+Manual#Mailman2.1MembersManual-7.2HowcanIavoidgettingduplicatemessages%3F%28duplicatesoption%29) but am not sure this is applies to this situation. ?It's not like these emails are being sent to both me and the list address. ?They are being sent to list1, list2, list3, and list4. ?I happen to be on all of them for monitoring purposes. ?I'm sure there are others within my organization that are on more than one of these lists. ?We have administrators that like to see that their message has gone out to all the student announcement lists.
>>
>> Your feedback is most appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Edward Chase
>> Providence College
>> Information Technology
>>
> Could the address be a gmail address? Gmail looks at message-Ids and
> automatically removes duplicates, and the same initial email to multiple
> lists, will all have the same message-id.
>
> --
> Richard Damon
>

From ECHASE at providence.edu  Wed Aug 17 05:39:48 2011
From: ECHASE at providence.edu (Chase, Edward)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 03:39:48 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email address subscribed to many annoucement
 lists but only recieves one copy on an annoucement sent to multiple lists
In-Reply-To: <4E4B1EBA.9020002@Damon-Family.org>
References: <FD2FA876163F574AAAC45BD1A43961F72B6ADEF1@DAG02.providence.col>
	<4E4B1EBA.9020002@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID: <FD2FA876163F574AAAC45BD1A43961F72B6ADF42@DAG02.providence.col>


-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+echase=providence.edu at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+echase=providence.edu at python.org] On Behalf Of Richard Damon
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 9:52 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Email address subscribed to many annoucement lists but only recieves one copy on an annoucement sent to multiple lists

On 8/16/11 9:21 PM, Chase, Edward wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> The long subject pretty much states my issue.  I have an email address that is subscribed to many moderated announcement lists in my organization.  If a message is sent to more than one list, I only receive the first copy that gets approved.
>
> I've found section 7.2 in the user documentation in the wiki (http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+2.1+Members+Manual#Mailman2.1MembersManual-7.2HowcanIavoidgettingduplicatemessages%3F%28duplicatesoption%29) but am not sure this is applies to this situation.  It's not like these emails are being sent to both me and the list address.  They are being sent to list1, list2, list3, and list4.  I happen to be on all of them for monitoring purposes.  I'm sure there are others within my organization that are on more than one of these lists.  We have administrators that like to see that their message has gone out to all the student announcement lists.
>
> Your feedback is most appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Edward Chase
> Providence College
> Information Technology
>


From: Richard Damon
Could the address be a gmail address? Gmail looks at message-Ids and automatically removes duplicates, and the same initial email to multiple lists, will all have the same message-id.



No, not Gmail.  My address is in-house Exchange and my test "student" account is Microsoft Live at edu which I would assume is a really, really big Exchange system.  So might this not be a GNU-Mailman behavior ?



From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 17 06:15:50 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 21:15:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email address subscribed to many annoucement
 lists but only recieves one copy on an annoucement sent to multiple lists
In-Reply-To: <FD2FA876163F574AAAC45BD1A43961F72B6ADEF1@DAG02.providence.col>
References: <FD2FA876163F574AAAC45BD1A43961F72B6ADEF1@DAG02.providence.col>
Message-ID: <4E4B4076.8010408@msapiro.net>

On 8/16/2011 6:21 PM, Chase, Edward wrote:
> 
> The long subject pretty much states my issue.  I have an email
> address that is subscribed to many moderated announcement lists in my
> organization.  If a message is sent to more than one list, I only
> receive the first copy that gets approved.


Are some lists in Non-digest options -> regular_exclude_lists of other
lists? If so, e.g. if list2 is in list1's regular_exclude_lists, you
won't ever receive a copy from list1 since you are a member of list2.

However, it doesn't sound like this is the case because if it were, the
order of message approval wouldn't matter.

It seems much more likely that Mailman is sending a copy from each list
and some MTA or MDA between Mailman and you or your own MUA is
discarding all the subsequent copies after the first because they have
the same Message-ID as the first.


> I've found section 7.2 in the user documentation in the wiki
> (http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+2.1+Members+Manual#Mailman2.1MembersManual-7.2HowcanIavoidgettingduplicatemessages%3F%28duplicatesoption%29)
> but am not sure this is applies to this situation.  It's not like
> these emails are being sent to both me and the list address.  They
> are being sent to list1, list2, list3, and list4.  I happen to be on
> all of them for monitoring purposes.


You are correct that that does not apply in this situation. The only
Mailman thing that might apply is regular_exclude_lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 17 06:56:32 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 21:56:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email address subscribed to many
	annoucementlists but only recieves one copy on an annoucement
	sent to multiple lists
In-Reply-To: <FD2FA876163F574AAAC45BD1A43961F72B6ADF42@DAG02.providence.col>
Message-ID: <PC195201108162156320031cbf81cbf@MSAPIRO>

Chase, Edward wrote:
>
>No, not Gmail.  My address is in-house Exchange and my test "student" account is Microsoft Live at edu which I would assume is a really, really big Exchange system.  So might this not be a GNU-Mailman behavior ?


I'm still betting on something downstream from Mailman. You could
verify this by checking the outging MTA logs on the Mailman server.
You should see all four messages from list1-bounces at ...,
list2-bounces at ..., etc. being delivered to the MX for your test
address.

If you don't have access to those logs or to someone who does, you
could do a test by sending a test message to your test address
directly and to a local address with a .forward to the test address.
I'm betting that in this test, the test address will see only one copy.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From malcolm.austen at weald.org.uk  Wed Aug 17 10:16:23 2011
From: malcolm.austen at weald.org.uk (Malcolm Austen)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 09:16:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email address subscribed to many annoucement
 lists but only recieves one copy on an annoucement sent to multiple lists
In-Reply-To: <FD2FA876163F574AAAC45BD1A43961F72B6ADF42@DAG02.providence.col>
References: <FD2FA876163F574AAAC45BD1A43961F72B6ADEF1@DAG02.providence.col>
	<4E4B1EBA.9020002@Damon-Family.org>
	<FD2FA876163F574AAAC45BD1A43961F72B6ADF42@DAG02.providence.col>
Message-ID: <op.v0cmllfyg14ka7@oucs-hue.oucs.ox.ac.uk>

On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 04:39:48 +0100, Chase, Edward <ECHASE at providence.edu>  
wrote:

> No, not Gmail.  My address is in-house Exchange and my test "student"  
> account is Microsoft Live at edu which I would assume is a really, really  
> big Exchange system.  So might this not be a GNU-Mailman behavior ?

Exchange has essentially the same issue as Gmail although I think I heard  
that imminent/future versions may behave differently.

As far as I'm aware, the only difference is that Gmail attaches the  
message-ID to the sent copy and so discards all incoming copies whereas  
Exchange does not attach a message-ID to the sent copy and so you see the  
first incoming copy, but not subsequent ones.

= Malcolm.

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

From dunkel at calamus.net  Wed Aug 17 10:31:29 2011
From: dunkel at calamus.net (Ulf Dunkel)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 10:31:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User Management
In-Reply-To: <CALJTtBFFHdmSpC+pPq=e7wsJNseDjz-GsUSFKQkB8FdQp5q9ig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALJTtBFFHdmSpC+pPq=e7wsJNseDjz-GsUSFKQkB8FdQp5q9ig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E4B7C61.6020300@calamus.net>

If you'd like to do this in a web interface, you may want to set up a 
cron job which files all list members periodically and gets analyzed by 
a PHP form in a browser, like we do here:

http://www.dsd.net/news/news_abo.php?lan=en

- - - - -

Am 11.08.2011 21:01, schrieb Douglas D. J. de Macedo:
> Hi people,
>
> I would like to know more about user management on Mailman system.
>
> My problem is that I have more than 50 lists and every time time that one of
> the users go out of the company I have to go one per one list removing this
> user. And the other way, when a new person get a job here I have to sign
> their email list per list ..
>
> So there are some tool to help me?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Doug
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dunkel%40calamus.net
>

-- 
Bis bald / See you soon / A bient?t / Tot ziens / ?is revido

invers Software, Inh. Ulf Dunkel
dunkel at calamus.net - www.calamus.net

Pflichtangaben gem. ? 37a HGB:
Sitz des Unternehmens: DE-49624 L?ningen

From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Thu Aug 18 04:04:24 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 02:04:24 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Resetting bounce scores globally
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E403C502795@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi,

Is there a way to reset all ppls bounces in all lists?  

Ive tried withlist -a -r reset_bounce

but no joy

regards

Steven Jones


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Thu Aug 18 04:13:22 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 02:13:22 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman talking on ipv6 loopback
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E403C502FBB@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi,

I just upgrade Mailman but for some reason it seems to be talking to postfix on ::1 and postfix does a relay deny....For mailman is this normal?  Or do I have a misconfiguration?

regards

Steven Jones

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Aug 18 06:15:29 2011
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:15:29 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  mailman talking on ipv6 loopback
In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E403C502FBB@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E403C502FBB@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <87vctvl5i6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Steven Jones writes:

 > I just upgrade Mailman but for some reason it seems to be talking
 > to postfix on ::1 and postfix does a relay deny....For mailman is
 > this normal?  Or do I have a misconfiguration?

I gather that you had a working Mailman installation that stopped
working on upgrade.  If it formerly worked with Mailman talking on
IPv4 loopback, and now it doesn't because it's on IPv6, then Postfix
is probably misconfigured.  You need to tell it that IPv6 loopback is
just as much "localhost" as IPv4 loopback is.

Otherwise, you need to provide more information.


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 18 06:55:17 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 21:55:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Resetting bounce scores globally
In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E403C502795@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <PC195201108172155170765fe3b630e@MSAPIRO>

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>Is there a way to reset all ppls bounces in all lists?  
>
>Ive tried withlist -a -r reset_bounce
>
>but no joy


Did you first download and install per its docstring
<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/reset_bounce.py> (mirrored at
<http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~msapiro/scripts/reset_bounce.py>)?

If not, do so. If so, what specifically was the result from

  withlist -a -r reset_bounce

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jbarnes at ccsuvt.org  Thu Aug 18 15:49:49 2011
From: jbarnes at ccsuvt.org (Jack Barnes)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 09:49:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing mail flow problem
Message-ID: <CAHoTCRSRNTPBzbGe+qf=EJ834TXsycph0LVfXqD29jg4ba0Fvg@mail.gmail.com>

I have setup mailman as our school districts list server.  For email, we use
Google and our domain is ccsuvt.org.  The listserv is a subdomain named
lists.ccsuvt.org.  The problem that we are experiencing is that outgoing
email is going to Google that returns a message that there is no user with
that name.

At the same time, if I am a member of the list, I can send a posting to the
list and all of the recipients receive it if they have an account with
Google no matter what the domain (xxxxx at ccsuvt.org or xxxxx at gmail.com.

I must be missing something but I can't figure out why outgoing mail is even
going to Google.  We are using Postfix so is it a setting in Postfix?  Is it
a setting in our Google account?

Thanks for any help you could provide.

Jack W. Barnes, CNE
Head Network Administrator
CCSU
jbarnes at ccsuvt.org
Office 802-857-7000
Ext. 1039
Cell 802-318-0976
Fax 802-879-8197

CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION. THIS MESSAGE MAY NOT BE FORWARDED.

The information contained in this communication, including any attachments,
is confidential,constitutes privileged communication, and is intended only for the use of the addressee.
This message may not be forwarded without prior consent from the sender.
The information in this e-mail is also protected by the rights afforded under Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA)
and school district policies.
Any unauthorized use, forwarding, distribution,disclosure, printing or copying is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately at 802-857-7000 x1234
or return e-mail,and delete any copies of this message immediately.
Any inadvertent disclosure of this communication shall not compromise the confidential nature of the communication.

From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Fri Aug 19 02:02:55 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 00:02:55 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Resetting bounce scores globally
In-Reply-To: <PC195201108172155170765fe3b630e@MSAPIRO>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E403C502795@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<PC195201108172155170765fe3b630e@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E403C503D84@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi,

Is there a way to scan my 440 lists and look for lists with no subscribers?  it seems my localhost ipv6 problem has caused at least one list to be emptied of all subscribers by the bounce processing.....so I have had to re-populate it.

After that is there a way to extract all the subscribers off the old lists server and inject them back into the new lists on the new lists server?

regards

Steven Jones

Technical Specialist - Linux RHCE

Victoria University, Wellington, NZ

0064 4 463 6272

________________________________________
From: Mark Sapiro [mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2011 4:55 p.m.
To: Steven Jones; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Resetting bounce scores globally

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>Is there a way to reset all ppls bounces in all lists?
>
>Ive tried withlist -a -r reset_bounce
>
>but no joy


Did you first download and install per its docstring
<http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/reset_bounce.py> (mirrored at
<http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~msapiro/scripts/reset_bounce.py>)?

If not, do so. If so, what specifically was the result from

  withlist -a -r reset_bounce

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 19 02:40:10 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 17:40:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for lists with no members. Repopulsting
	lists. was: Resetting bounce scores globally
In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E403C503D84@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <PC195201108181740100593e4d7e01b@MSAPIRO>

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>Is there a way to scan my 440 lists and look for lists with no subscribers?  it seems my localhost ipv6 problem has caused at least one list to be emptied of all subscribers by the bounce processing.....so I have had to re-populate it.


I don't know why this is a reply to my reply in the "Resetting bounce
scores globally" thread, and did you resolve that?

Anyway, there are various ways you could accomplish this. You could
create a shell script along the lines of

#!/bin/sh
for list in `bin/list_lists --bare`
do if ! (bin/list_members $list | grep @ > /dev/null); then
  echo $list: no members
  fi
done

Or you could create a withlist script like

def find_empty(mlist):
    if len(mlist.getMembers()) == 0:
        print "%s has no members" % mlist.real_name

save it as bin/find_empty.py and run

bin/withlist -a -r find_empty


>After that is there a way to extract all the subscribers off the old lists server and inject them back into the new lists on the new lists server?


Why not just copy the lists/LISTNAME/config.pck from the old server to
the new. Or if for some reason you don't want to do that, you could
copy it to lists/dummy_list/config.pck on the new server and then run

  bin/list_members dummy_list

with the desired list_members options.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Fri Aug 19 02:50:22 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 00:50:22 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for lists with no members. Repopulsting
 lists. was: Resetting bounce scores globally
In-Reply-To: <PC195201108181740100593e4d7e01b@MSAPIRO>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E403C503D84@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<PC195201108181740100593e4d7e01b@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E403C503DA8@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi,

Because its related to the same event....

"config.pck", because I didnt know that......

I think sometimes developers/coders dont realise lesser mortals cant code to their standards, and in my case virtually not at all...

regards

Steven Jones


________________________________________
From: Mark Sapiro [mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Friday, 19 August 2011 12:40 p.m.
To: Steven Jones; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Looking for lists with no members. Repopulsting lists. was: Resetting bounce scores globally

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>Is there a way to scan my 440 lists and look for lists with no subscribers?  it seems my localhost ipv6 problem has caused at least one list to be emptied of all subscribers by the bounce processing.....so I have had to re-populate it.


I don't know why this is a reply to my reply in the "Resetting bounce
scores globally" thread, and did you resolve that?

Anyway, there are various ways you could accomplish this. You could
create a shell script along the lines of

#!/bin/sh
for list in `bin/list_lists --bare`
do if ! (bin/list_members $list | grep @ > /dev/null); then
  echo $list: no members
  fi
done

Or you could create a withlist script like

def find_empty(mlist):
    if len(mlist.getMembers()) == 0:
        print "%s has no members" % mlist.real_name

save it as bin/find_empty.py and run

bin/withlist -a -r find_empty


>After that is there a way to extract all the subscribers off the old lists server and inject them back into the new lists on the new lists server?


Why not just copy the lists/LISTNAME/config.pck from the old server to
the new. Or if for some reason you don't want to do that, you could
copy it to lists/dummy_list/config.pck on the new server and then run

  bin/list_members dummy_list

with the desired list_members options.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 19 03:18:32 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 18:18:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for lists with no members.
	Repopulstinglists. was: Resetting bounce scores globally
In-Reply-To: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E403C503DA8@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <PC195201108181818320640304f5360@MSAPIRO>

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>Because its related to the same event....


But you still haven't said if you still have a problem with
reset_bounce or what the resolution was.


>"config.pck", because I didnt know that......


Sorry. The process of moving lists between servers has been discussed
many times on this list and in the FAQ. I assumed you might have seen
some of that.


>I think sometimes developers/coders dont realise lesser mortals cant code to their standards, and in my case virtually not at all...


I'm sure that sometimes that's true of me, but if you look at my posts
in the archives of this list, I think you'll find that I usually bend
over backwords to explain things patiently, clearly and understandably.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Fri Aug 19 04:25:40 2011
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 02:25:40 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for lists with no members.
 Repopulstinglists. was: Resetting bounce scores globally
In-Reply-To: <PC195201108181818320640304f5360@MSAPIRO>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E403C503DA8@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>,
	<PC195201108181818320640304f5360@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E403C503E0B@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi,

"But you still haven't said if you still have a problem with
reset_bounce or what the resolution was. "

I had  read this from googling but I didnt understand what it actually meant and the stuff I found was 2007 etc and seemed to conflict with newer....hadnt sussed it out.

Ive had several level1s this morning so ive not progressed this as yet, however only one list has complained and another one lost its members so i had to fix that first the rest seem OK....but I need to do a health check somehow.......

Moving lists, yes I followed how to move a list, took your docs and made it "almost me proof" but didnt take on / notice the components and what they do....

Coding for me is like looking at say french, I dont understand a word of it...its a blind spot of mine....in some ways that's good as I'd be asked to code all day if I could....and I hate doing it.

regards

Steven Jones



________________________________________
From: Mark Sapiro [mark at msapiro.net]
Sent: Friday, 19 August 2011 1:18 p.m.
To: Steven Jones; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Looking for lists with no members. Repopulstinglists. was: Resetting bounce scores globally

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>Because its related to the same event....


But you still haven't said if you still have a problem with
reset_bounce or what the resolution was.


>"config.pck", because I didnt know that......


Sorry. The process of moving lists between servers has been discussed
many times on this list and in the FAQ. I assumed you might have seen
some of that.


>I think sometimes developers/coders dont realise lesser mortals cant code to their standards, and in my case virtually not at all...


I'm sure that sometimes that's true of me, but if you look at my posts
in the archives of this list, I think you'll find that I usually bend
over backwords to explain things patiently, clearly and understandably.

--
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk  Fri Aug 19 11:38:54 2011
From: s.watkins at nhm.ac.uk (Steff Watkins)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 10:38:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for lists with no members.
	Repopulstinglists. was: Resetting bounce scores globally
In-Reply-To: <PC195201108181740100593e4d7e01b@MSAPIRO>
References: <833D8E48405E064EBC54C84EC6B36E403C503D84@STAWINCOX10MBX1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	<PC195201108181740100593e4d7e01b@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <8A17F10FEBA5C841956578C5AD9027D301C9210D@HOMER.nhm.ac.uk>

> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 1:40 AM
> To: Steven Jones; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Looking for lists with no 
> members. Repopulstinglists. was: Resetting bounce scores globally
> 
> Steven Jones wrote:
> >
> >Is there a way to scan my 440 lists and look for lists with 
> no subscribers?  it seems my localhost ipv6 problem has 
> caused at least one list to be emptied of all subscribers by 
> the bounce processing.....so I have had to re-populate it.

In the great spirit of "Me too!"-ism, here's my offering of a little
script I use with my local mailman setup:

=====
#!/usr/bin/perl
$MAILMAN_BASEDIR='/usr/local/mailman';
open(FOO,"$MAILMAN_BASEDIR/bin/list_lists -b |");
while ($line=<FOO>) {
 chomp($line);
 print("==> $line: ");
 chomp($line);
 open(FO1,"$MAILMAN_BASEDIR/bin/list_members $line|");
  @Members=<FO1>;
 close(FO1);
 $Count=$#Members+1;
 print("$Count\n");
}
close(FOO);
=====

Save it as a text file, chmod it +x, check that the perl call points to
the right place and $MAILMAN_BASEDIR likewise.

Pretty pedestrian, not very pretty output but it works.

Steff
-----

From ianprietz at usf.edu  Fri Aug 19 15:36:44 2011
From: ianprietz at usf.edu (Prietz, Ian)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 09:36:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribers accessing private list archives
Message-ID: <BC57F141763A94499D9BD0D8191FD3D747BF2E8A38@USFMAIL2.forest.usf.edu>

Hi,

I help manage a series of mailing lists. It is currently configured for me to manually subscribe users. We do not offer the subscribers the opportunity to manage their own subscription...they are required to be a part of this list. We do not have passwords setup for subscribers, so they do not have to do the periodic password updates.

I also have the lists setup to privately archive.

I am looking for a way to give subscribers a generic password that would authenticate them to be able to view the archives (so they can revisit any past messages). Note, I do not want them to be able to access their subscriber settings to be able to unsubscribe themselves. I would almost like to just have everyone be given a generic password (that I could give out upon request), so they can view the private archives. That's all.

Any ideas? Our Mailman access is restricted just to accessing our mailing lists administration pages on the web. Our service is hosted...I do not have direct access to the server.

Thanks,

Ian

From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Fri Aug 19 16:26:31 2011
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 17:26:31 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribers accessing private list archives
In-Reply-To: <BC57F141763A94499D9BD0D8191FD3D747BF2E8A38@USFMAIL2.forest.usf.edu>
References: <BC57F141763A94499D9BD0D8191FD3D747BF2E8A38@USFMAIL2.forest.usf.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1108191718350.2151@data.home>

On Fri, 19 Aug 2011, Prietz, Ian wrote:

> I am looking for a way to give subscribers a generic password that would 
> authenticate them to be able to view the archives (so they can revisit 
> any past messages). Note, I do not want them to be able to access their 
> subscriber settings to be able to unsubscribe themselves. I would almost 
> like to just have everyone be given a generic password (that I could 
> give out upon request), so they can view the private archives. That's 
> all.

I would set the archives to be public, but require authentication through 
the webserver for this area of the site.  If you can use .htaccess files, 
you might be able to require that a password be entered to access 
/pipermail/<listname> under your domain.

since I admin my own servers, I don't know how easy this would be to do, 
but someone here would.

Geoff.




From ennis at nmcourts.gov  Thu Aug 18 17:57:43 2011
From: ennis at nmcourts.gov (Ennis Ibarra)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 09:57:43 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing mail flow problem
In-Reply-To: <CAHoTCRSRNTPBzbGe+qf=EJ834TXsycph0LVfXqD29jg4ba0Fvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1476035681.130654.1313683063308.JavaMail.root@mail.nmcourts.gov>

What is your nslookup querying your MX record? 

nslookup 
set q=MX 
ccsuvt.org 

What do you get? 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jack Barnes" <jbarnes at ccsuvt.org> 
To: mailman-users at python.org 
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 7:49:49 AM 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing mail flow problem 

I have setup mailman as our school districts list server. For email, we use 
Google and our domain is ccsuvt.org. The listserv is a subdomain named 
lists.ccsuvt.org. The problem that we are experiencing is that outgoing 
email is going to Google that returns a message that there is no user with 
that name. 

At the same time, if I am a member of the list, I can send a posting to the 
list and all of the recipients receive it if they have an account with 
Google no matter what the domain (xxxxx at ccsuvt.org or xxxxx at gmail.com. 

I must be missing something but I can't figure out why outgoing mail is even 
going to Google. We are using Postfix so is it a setting in Postfix? Is it 
a setting in our Google account? 

Thanks for any help you could provide. 

Jack W. Barnes, CNE 
Head Network Administrator 
CCSU 
jbarnes at ccsuvt.org 
Office 802-857-7000 
Ext. 1039 
Cell 802-318-0976 
Fax 802-879-8197 

CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION. THIS MESSAGE MAY NOT BE FORWARDED. 

The information contained in this communication, including any attachments, 
is confidential,constitutes privileged communication, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. 
This message may not be forwarded without prior consent from the sender. 
The information in this e-mail is also protected by the rights afforded under Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) 
and school district policies. 
Any unauthorized use, forwarding, distribution,disclosure, printing or copying is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. 
If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately at 802-857-7000 x1234 
or return e-mail,and delete any copies of this message immediately. 
Any inadvertent disclosure of this communication shall not compromise the confidential nature of the communication. 
------------------------------------------------------ 
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users 
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ 
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ennis%40nmcourts.gov 

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 19 17:43:34 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 08:43:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing mail flow problem
In-Reply-To: <CAHoTCRSRNTPBzbGe+qf=EJ834TXsycph0LVfXqD29jg4ba0Fvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201108190843340187136ae59d@MSAPIRO>

Jack Barnes wrote:

>I have setup mailman as our school districts list server.  For email, we use
>Google and our domain is ccsuvt.org.  The listserv is a subdomain named
>lists.ccsuvt.org.


Please see <http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+is+not+Listserv>.


>The problem that we are experiencing is that outgoing
>email is going to Google that returns a message that there is no user with
>that name.


What is your Mailman setting for SMTPHOST? Is it the default
'localhost' or have you overridden it in mm_cfg.py?


>At the same time, if I am a member of the list, I can send a posting to the
>list and all of the recipients receive it if they have an account with
>Google no matter what the domain (xxxxx at ccsuvt.org or xxxxx at gmail.com.
>
>I must be missing something but I can't figure out why outgoing mail is even
>going to Google.  We are using Postfix so is it a setting in Postfix?  Is it
>a setting in our Google account?


Either SMTPHOST is set to a Google server in mm_cfg.py or it is
Postfix. What is the output from 'postconf -n'?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 19 18:14:01 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 09:14:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribers accessing private list archives
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1108191718350.2151@data.home>
Message-ID: <PC195201108190914010015d1fecc90@MSAPIRO>

Geoff Shang wrote:

>On Fri, 19 Aug 2011, Prietz, Ian wrote:
>
>> I am looking for a way to give subscribers a generic password that would 
>> authenticate them to be able to view the archives (so they can revisit 
>> any past messages). Note, I do not want them to be able to access their 
>> subscriber settings to be able to unsubscribe themselves. I would almost 
>> like to just have everyone be given a generic password (that I could 
>> give out upon request), so they can view the private archives. That's 
>> all.
>
>I would set the archives to be public, but require authentication through 
>the webserver for this area of the site.  If you can use .htaccess files, 
>you might be able to require that a password be entered to access 
>/pipermail/<listname> under your domain.
>
>since I admin my own servers, I don't know how easy this would be to do, 
>but someone here would.


This is a good idea, but since the OP's Mailman is hosted and the OP
doesn't have access to the host server, it would require that the host
admins install the .htaccess files and maintain the 'htpasswd' files
for authentication. They may be willing to do this as the .htaccess
files could be installed per list as
archives/private/LISTNAME/.htaccess. This also requires that the
archives/private/LISTNAME/ directories be directly or indirectly
"AllowOverride AuthConfig".

Another possibility is that since all users have a password whether
they know it or not, you could set the password to a known generic
value for all users. I wouldn't advise this however, as it would allow
any user to access any other user's options with the same password.

That raises another question. Since this is a hosted Mailman, I would
assume it is pretty "vanilla" so presumably, you prevent users from
unsubscribing by setting unsubscribe_policy to Yes, otherwise they
could easily unsubscribe by email, but how do you prevent them from
requesting a password reminder from the options login page and then
using it to login and change their options, e.g. set mail delivery off.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Fri Aug 19 21:22:54 2011
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 15:22:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for lists with no members.
 Repopulstinglists. was: Resetting bounce scores globally
In-Reply-To: <PC195201108181818320640304f5360@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201108181818320640304f5360@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4E4EB80E.2040703@libertytrek.org>

On 2011-08-18 9:18 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>> I think sometimes developers/coders dont realise lesser mortals
>> cant code to their standards, and in my case virtually not at all...

> I'm sure that sometimes that's true of me, but if you look at my posts
> in the archives of this list, I think you'll find that I usually bend
> over backwords to explain things patiently, clearly and understandably.

An incredibly loud understatement... ;)

Mark, you are hands down the *most* patient, knowledgeable *and*
articulate person I've ever encountered on any support list.

Thanks for all that you do!

From jbarnes at ccsuvt.org  Fri Aug 19 22:10:08 2011
From: jbarnes at ccsuvt.org (Jack Barnes)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 16:10:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing mail flow problem
In-Reply-To: <PC195201108190843340187136ae59d@MSAPIRO>
References: <CAHoTCRSRNTPBzbGe+qf=EJ834TXsycph0LVfXqD29jg4ba0Fvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195201108190843340187136ae59d@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CAHoTCRRq2fcoVfTeVnwTUZyAMFPATvuqF-ci47BmtutGG=mc_A@mail.gmail.com>

See Below


On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> Jack Barnes wrote:
>
> >I have setup mailman as our school districts list server.  For email, we
> use
> >Google and our domain is ccsuvt.org.  The listserv is a subdomain named
> >lists.ccsuvt.org.
>
>
> Please see <http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+is+not+Listserv>.
>
>
> >The problem that we are experiencing is that outgoing
> >email is going to Google that returns a message that there is no user with
> >that name.
>
>
> What is your Mailman setting for SMTPHOST? Is it the default
> 'localhost' or have you overridden it in mm_cfg.py?
>

*Postfix *

>
>
> >At the same time, if I am a member of the list, I can send a posting to
> the
> >list and all of the recipients receive it if they have an account with
> >Google no matter what the domain (xxxxx at ccsuvt.org or xxxxx at gmail.com.
> >
> >I must be missing something but I can't figure out why outgoing mail is
> even
> >going to Google.  We are using Postfix so is it a setting in Postfix?  Is
> it
> >a setting in our Google account?
>
>
> Either SMTPHOST is set to a Google server in mm_cfg.py or it is
> Postfix. What is the output from 'postconf -n'?
>


> *]# postconf -n *
>
> *alias_database = hash:/etc/mailman/aliases *
>
> *alias_maps = hash:/etc/mailman/aliases *
>
> *command_directory = /usr/sbin *
>
> *config_directory = /etc/postfix *
>
> *daemon_directory = /usr/libexec/postfix *
>
> *debug_peer_level = 2 *
>
> *default_destination_concurrency_limit = 5 *
>
> *html_directory = no *
>
> *inet_interfaces = $myhostname, localhost *
>
> *mail_owner = postfix *
>
> *mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq.postfix *
>
> *manpage_directory = /usr/share/man *
>
> *mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost *
>
> *myhostname = lists.ccsuvt.org *
>
> *newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases.postfix *
>
> *queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix *
>
> *readme_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.3.3/README_FILES *
>
> *relay_destination_concurrency_limit = 1 *
>
> *relayhost = [smtp.gmail.com]:587 *
>
> *sample_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.3.3/samples *
>
> *sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail.postfix *
>
> *setgid_group = postdrop *
>
> *smtp_connection_cache_destinations = smtp.gmail.com *
>
> *smtp_sasl_auth_enable = yes *
>
> *smtp_sasl_password_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/sasl_passwd *
>
> *smtp_sasl_security_options = noanonymous *
>
> *smtp_sasl_tls_security_options = noanonymous *
>
> *smtp_tls_cert_file = /etc/postfix/postfixclient.pem *
>
> *smtp_tls_enforce_peername = no *
>
> *smtp_tls_key_file = /etc/postfix/postfixclient.key *
>
> *smtp_tls_note_starttls_offer = yes *
>
> *smtp_tls_scert_verifydepth = 5 *
>
> *smtp_use_tls = yes *
>
> *smtpd_tls_ask_ccert = yes *
>
> *smtpd_tls_req_ccert = no *
>
> *soft_bounce = yes *
>
> *tls_random_source = dev:/dev/urandom *
>
> *unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550 *
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> Jack W. Barnes, CNE
Head Network Administrator
CCSU
jbarnes at ccsuvt.org
Office 802-857-7000
Ext. 1039
Cell 802-318-0976
Fax 802-879-8197

CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION. THIS MESSAGE MAY NOT BE FORWARDED.

The information contained in this communication, including any attachments,
is confidential,constitutes privileged communication, and is intended only for the use of the addressee.
This message may not be forwarded without prior consent from the sender.
The information in this e-mail is also protected by the rights afforded under Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA)
and school district policies.
Any unauthorized use, forwarding, distribution,disclosure, printing or copying is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately at 802-857-7000 x1234
or return e-mail,and delete any copies of this message immediately.
Any inadvertent disclosure of this communication shall not compromise the confidential nature of the communication.

From Brian.D.Atkins at uscg.mil  Fri Aug 19 21:51:17 2011
From: Brian.D.Atkins at uscg.mil (Atkins, Brian CTR)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 15:51:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creating a list for announcements only
Message-ID: <4C28A2A176D4DF409D9DAB23460F10D20E780827@emo-exmb-m-201.main.ads.uscg.mil>

I'm trying to create a list so that 1 member and a select group of non-members can send out announcements with the replies coming back to the poster and limit the amount of email that the moderator/poster receives. I also want to have the ability to have members send to the list but messages go to a specific person rather than the list. 

I should note that the primary poster is also a moderator, so he receives 2 e-mails for every reply, one for the actual reply and another from mailman telling him he has a post that is moderated.

So what I want is:

Announcement:
Poster => List 

Reply:
Member => Poster

New message:
Member => Authorized recipient


What I'm getting is:

Announcement:
Poster => List

Reply:
Member => Poster
Admin message => Moderator

New message:
Member => Held for moderation
Admin message => Moderator

Thanks,

Brian 


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 20 01:24:16 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 16:24:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing mail flow problem
In-Reply-To: <CAHoTCRRq2fcoVfTeVnwTUZyAMFPATvuqF-ci47BmtutGG=mc_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201108191624160781c0e94add@MSAPIRO>

Jack Barnes wrote:
>
>> *]# postconf -n *
>>
[...]
>>
>> *relayhost = [smtp.gmail.com]:587 *


The above tells Postfix to relay all non-local mail via smtp.gmail.com.
It appears that Postfix is configured to authenticate to
smtp.gmail.com (see below), but it seems that authentication is
failing so that server will only accept mail for its local users.

You could remove the above and let Postfix deliver directly to the
recipient MX servers, but presumably you don't want to do that.



[...]
>>
>> *smtp_sasl_auth_enable = yes *
>>
>> *smtp_sasl_password_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/sasl_passwd *
>>
>> *smtp_sasl_security_options = noanonymous *


Here you may want

smtp_sasl_security_options = noanonymous, noplaintext

to prevent plaintext passwords being sent over unencrypted connections.


>> *smtp_sasl_tls_security_options = noanonymous *


The above smtp_sasl_* settings all look OK. Do you have an entry of the
form

[smtp.gmail.com]:587    valid_user:valid_password

in /etc/postfix/sasl_passwd and have you run postmap to update
/etc/postfix/sasl_passwd.db?

If so, I don't know what the problem is. Do you see any "SASL
authentication failure:" messages in the postfix log
(/var/log/maillog?).

Also, see <http://www.postfix.org/SASL_README.html#client_sasl>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 20 01:50:59 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 16:50:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creating a list for announcements only
In-Reply-To: <4C28A2A176D4DF409D9DAB23460F10D20E780827@emo-exmb-m-201.main.ads.uscg.mil>
Message-ID: <PC195201108191650590015565cb14a@MSAPIRO>

Atkins, Brian CTR wrote:

>I'm trying to create a list so that 1 member and a select group of non-members can send out announcements with the replies coming back to the poster and limit the amount of email that the moderator/poster receives. I also want to have the ability to have members send to the list but messages go to a specific person rather than the list. 


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/3YA9>. That should get you at
least close to what you want.


>I should note that the primary poster is also a moderator, so he receives 2 e-mails for every reply, one for the actual reply and another from mailman telling him he has a post that is moderated.
>
>So what I want is:
>
>Announcement:
>Poster => List 
>
>Reply:
>Member => Poster
>
>New message:
>Member => Authorized recipient


This is the tricky part. See below.


>
>What I'm getting is:
>
>Announcement:
>Poster => List
>
>Reply:
>Member => Poster
>Admin message => Moderator

If you set member_moderation_action to Reject or Discard, you won't get
a held message or notice to the moderator.

If you set first_strip_reply_to to Yes, reply_goes_to_list to Explicit
address and reply_to_address as desired, you can get most replies to
go to reply_to_address. This won't be the poster in all cases, but may
be acceptable.

If you rely on users to just "reply", either reply_goes_to_list =
Poster or reply_goes_to_list = Explicit address will be fine. The
problem comes when they "reply all" because that will include the list.


>New message:
>Member => Held for moderation
>Admin message => Moderator


There is no way to send this message to a specific person. What you can
do is described in the FAQ, namely set member_moderation_action to
Reject and set member_moderation_notice to text explaining that the
message should be sent to "Authorized recipient". However, this may
impact the Reply: case

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 20 01:57:20 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 16:57:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for lists with no members.Repopulsting
	lists. was: Resetting bounce scores globally
In-Reply-To: <4E4EB80E.2040703@libertytrek.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201108191657200875eeb3e93f@MSAPIRO>

Tanstaafl wrote:
>
>Mark, you are hands down the *most* patient, knowledgeable *and*
>articulate person I've ever encountered on any support list.
>
>Thanks for all that you do!


Even if I occasionally misspell words (backwords vs backwards) and
often make typos (Repopulsting vs Repopulating) :)

Thanks for the feedback.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Sat Aug 20 03:41:26 2011
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 21:41:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribers accessing private list archives
In-Reply-To: <BC57F141763A94499D9BD0D8191FD3D747BF2E8A38@USFMAIL2.forest.usf.edu>
References: <BC57F141763A94499D9BD0D8191FD3D747BF2E8A38@USFMAIL2.forest.usf.edu>
Message-ID: <4E4F10C5.5020307@Damon-Family.org>

On 8/19/11 9:36 AM, Prietz, Ian wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I help manage a series of mailing lists. It is currently configured for me to manually subscribe users. We do not offer the subscribers the opportunity to manage their own subscription...they are required to be a part of this list. We do not have passwords setup for subscribers, so they do not have to do the periodic password updates.
>
> I also have the lists setup to privately archive.
>
> I am looking for a way to give subscribers a generic password that would authenticate them to be able to view the archives (so they can revisit any past messages). Note, I do not want them to be able to access their subscriber settings to be able to unsubscribe themselves. I would almost like to just have everyone be given a generic password (that I could give out upon request), so they can view the private archives. That's all.
>
> Any ideas? Our Mailman access is restricted just to accessing our mailing lists administration pages on the web. Our service is hosted...I do not have direct access to the server.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ian
Perhaps you could create a dummy subscription that you give people the 
information for. That way you could give people the password for that 
subscription. Just need to watch to make sure no one plays with its 
settings.

Also, they are still able to unsubscribe themselves, as they can get an 
unsubscription message sent to their email and then use it to confirm 
the unsubscription.

Mailman is setup to allow people to unsubscribe (and a hosted service 
isn't going to let you change that), if you want to not allow this, your 
best bet is with social/political rules with appropriate penalties for 
violations.

-- 
Richard Damon


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 20 06:24:03 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 21:24:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribers accessing private list archives
In-Reply-To: <4E4F10C5.5020307@Damon-Family.org>
References: <BC57F141763A94499D9BD0D8191FD3D747BF2E8A38@USFMAIL2.forest.usf.edu>
	<4E4F10C5.5020307@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID: <4E4F36E3.1090707@msapiro.net>

On 8/19/11 6:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:

> Perhaps you could create a dummy subscription that you give people the
> information for. That way you could give people the password for that
> subscription. Just need to watch to make sure no one plays with its
> settings.


And the email address, but this is a much better idea than giving
everyone the same "generic" password which I suggested but advised
against in my reply at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2011-August/072108.html>.


> Also, they are still able to unsubscribe themselves, as they can get an
> unsubscription message sent to their email and then use it to confirm
> the unsubscription.


But as I implied at least in the reply referenced above, if you set the
list's unsubscribe_policy to Yes, even a users confirmed unsubscribe is
not effective until approved by an admin/moderator so this can be used
to prevent users from unsubscribing, but you can't prevent a user from
getting an on-demand password reminder and logging in to her options
page and setting "no mail".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Sat Aug 20 16:52:30 2011
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 10:52:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribers accessing private list archives
In-Reply-To: <4E4F36E3.1090707@msapiro.net>
References: <BC57F141763A94499D9BD0D8191FD3D747BF2E8A38@USFMAIL2.forest.usf.edu>
	<4E4F10C5.5020307@Damon-Family.org> <4E4F36E3.1090707@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4E4FCA2E.1000509@Damon-Family.org>

On 8/20/11 12:24 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> But as I implied at least in the reply referenced above, if you set 
> the list's unsubscribe_policy to Yes, even a users confirmed 
> unsubscribe is not effective until approved by an admin/moderator so 
> this can be used to prevent users from unsubscribing, but you can't 
> prevent a user from getting an on-demand password reminder and logging 
> in to her options page and setting "no mail". 

A bigger problem is that even if you can force the list to send mail to 
the user, the user can still black list the mail if they really don't 
want to see it, and there is nothing you can do unless you are also 
being their MSP. And the problem with them blacklisting you is that for 
some MSPs that can affect their spam filters and others (who want to get 
your message) my find it being blocked by spam filters.

This is part of the reason such a policy doesn't work. Forcing someone 
to receive messages just doesn't work, there needs to be enough value in 
them that the people want to get them.

-- 
Richard Damon


From lubkin at lubkin.net  Sat Aug 20 17:13:50 2011
From: lubkin at lubkin.net (David Lubkin)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 11:13:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Completely read-only list
Message-ID: <3Rh4wt3SKDzNDq@mail.python.org>

I've moved and renamed a set of lists. Not everyone reads their
email, though, so occasionally people try to post to the old names
off the old domain name. For now, I want to retain the old lists
as is, in case I need to back out of the move.

I've set up autorespond text to tell posters that a list has moved,
but their postings still go through to the old list that way. If I set
everyone's moderation bit (or enable the emergency moderation
flag), I still have to manually reject or discard postings.

The answer would seem to be a filter that matches on all postings
and rejects them with my autorespond text. Is there anything
simpler I could do?

I've checked the archives, and all the answers are about lists
that are *mostly* read-only, not entirely.

A truly read-only list has other utility. There are a few extinct
lists I'd like to host archives for. Mailman provides the framework
for controlling who can access the archives and for generating
the browsing pages.

For that use case, since I don't need an explanation sent to a
would-be poster, I think the simplest solution is removing the
list from the mail aliases file.

I'm using 2.1.12, for no reason other than that it's working fine
and I haven't had a compelling reason to upgrade yet.


-- David.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Aug 21 02:59:19 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 17:59:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Completely read-only list
In-Reply-To: <3Rh4wt3SKDzNDq@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC195201108201759190515a8db8896@MSAPIRO>

David Lubkin wrote:
>
>I've set up autorespond text to tell posters that a list has moved,
>but their postings still go through to the old list that way. If I set
>everyone's moderation bit (or enable the emergency moderation
>flag), I still have to manually reject or discard postings.
>
>The answer would seem to be a filter that matches on all postings
>and rejects them with my autorespond text. Is there anything
>simpler I could do?


Set everyones moderation bit. Do not set emergency moderation.

Go to Privacy options... -> Sender filters and set
member_moderation_action to Reject and put your message text in
member_moderation_notice.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lubkin at lubkin.net  Sun Aug 21 03:29:40 2011
From: lubkin at lubkin.net (David Lubkin)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 21:29:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Completely read-only list
In-Reply-To: <PC195201108201759190515a8db8896@MSAPIRO>
References: <3Rh4wt3SKDzNDq@mail.python.org>
	<PC195201108201759190515a8db8896@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <3RhL5s3Sx6zNHH@mail.python.org>

Mark wrote:

>Set everyones moderation bit. Do not set emergency moderation.
>
>Go to Privacy options... -> Sender filters and set
>member_moderation_action to Reject and put your message text in
>member_moderation_notice.

Why, yes, that's perfect. Thank you, Bill and Mark. Can't think why I
didn't spot member_moderation_*. Now all I have to do is use withlist
to change the rest of the lists.


-- David.


From noah-list at enabled.com  Sun Aug 21 18:01:23 2011
From: noah-list at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:01:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] check_perms -f not working
Message-ID: <4E512BD3.9030103@enabled.com>

hi there,

I run check_perms with the -f switch and the program runs the program 
claims it found 100 problems and asks to run the program again.  Next 
time I run it 100 problems are still found.  So I did some research to 
figure out what the problems are.

$ sudo ./check_perms -f
/var/lib/mailman/cron bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/Mailman bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/mail bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/icons bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/bin bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/templates bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/scripts bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/logs bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)

in some cases there are links to another directory.  Does this seem normal?

$ ls -l /var/lib/mailman/cron
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 Mar  8 02:20 /var/lib/mailman/cron -> 
/usr/lib/mailman/cron

/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/<list-name>/2004-April/index.html bad 
group (has: mailman, expected list) (fixing)

in some cases there are links to another file.  Does this seem normal?

# ls -l /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/<list-name>/2004-April/index.html
lrwxrwxrwx 1 mailman mailman 11 Jul 30  2010 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/<list-name>/2004-April/index.html -> 
thread.html


also I am getting the following error when visiting the archives page 
for certain lists.  What is a good way to fix this issue?

--- snip ---

Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /pipermail/<list-name>/ on this server.

--- snip ---

# ls -ld *
drwxrws--- 109 www-data list 4096 Jan 27  2011 private
drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman  list 4096 Jan 27  2011 public
# ls -ld <mail-list>.mbox/
drwxrwsr-x 2 80 list 4096 Oct  6  2008 <mail-list>.mbox/

Cheers

From lubkin at lubkin.net  Sun Aug 21 18:28:35 2011
From: lubkin at lubkin.net (David Lubkin)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 12:28:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Completely read-only list
In-Reply-To: <3RhL5s3Sx6zNHH@mail.python.org>
References: <3Rh4wt3SKDzNDq@mail.python.org>
	<PC195201108201759190515a8db8896@MSAPIRO>
	<3RhL5s3Sx6zNHH@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3Rhk346Mv8zMsn@mail.python.org>

Mark wrote:

>>Set everyones moderation bit. Do not set emergency moderation.
>>
>>Go to Privacy options... -> Sender filters and set
>>member_moderation_action to Reject and put your message text in
>>member_moderation_notice.

I replied:

>Why, yes, that's perfect. Thank you, Bill and Mark. Can't think why I
>didn't spot member_moderation_*. Now all I have to do is use withlist
>to change the rest of the lists.

Actually, it's not perfect. Emergency moderation seems better than
setting everyone's moderation bit.

Setting everyone's moderation bit either requires manually visiting
each admin page (for ~75 lists) or writing a more complicated script
to achieve what that does. Worse, it loses the record of who was set to
moderation before this, making it much more cumbersome to undo.

Is there any reason you're counseling against emergency moderation?


-- David.


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 22 03:13:38 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:13:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Completely read-only list
In-Reply-To: <3Rhk346Mv8zMsn@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1952011082118133804685c68f1fa@MSAPIRO>

David Lubkin wrote:
>
>Actually, it's not perfect. Emergency moderation seems better than
>setting everyone's moderation bit.
>
>Setting everyone's moderation bit either requires manually visiting
>each admin page (for ~75 lists) or writing a more complicated script
>to achieve what that does. Worse, it loses the record of who was set to
>moderation before this, making it much more cumbersome to undo.
>
>Is there any reason you're counseling against emergency moderation?


Yes. Emergency moderation is totally separate from member moderation.
It is an unconditional hold without notice to the admin/moderator. It
does not look at member_moderation_action or member_moderation_notice.

There is a script at <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/set_mod.py>
(mirrored at <http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~msapiro/scripts/set_mod.py>)
which can be installed as bin/set_mod.py and run via

  bin/withlist -a -r set_mod -- --set --all

To set all members moderated in all lists.

There is also a script at <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_mod.py>
(mirrored at <http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~msapiro/scripts/list_mod.py>)
which you could run first to list who was moderated before hand.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lubkin at lubkin.net  Mon Aug 22 03:37:52 2011
From: lubkin at lubkin.net (David Lubkin)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 21:37:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Completely read-only list
In-Reply-To: <PC1952011082118133804685c68f1fa@MSAPIRO>
References: <3Rhk346Mv8zMsn@mail.python.org>
	<PC1952011082118133804685c68f1fa@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <3RhyFr2zm4zNJn@mail.python.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Yes. Emergency moderation is totally separate from member moderation.
>It is an unconditional hold without notice to the admin/moderator. It
>does not look at member_moderation_action or member_moderation_notice.

Gotcha.

>There is a script at <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/set_mod.py>
         :
>There is also a script at <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_mod.py>
>(mirrored at <http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~msapiro/scripts/list_mod.py>)

Excellent. Thanks again. Your scripts all look pretty straight-forward,
but no reason to write the code when you've already written, debugged,
and documented it.


-- David.


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 22 03:53:53 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:53:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] check_perms -f not working
In-Reply-To: <4E512BD3.9030103@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952011082118535302819356f48e@MSAPIRO>

Noah wrote:
>
>I run check_perms with the -f switch and the program runs the program 
>claims it found 100 problems and asks to run the program again.  Next 
>time I run it 100 problems are still found.  So I did some research to 
>figure out what the problems are.
>
>$ sudo ./check_perms -f
>/var/lib/mailman/cron bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>/var/lib/mailman/Mailman bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>/var/lib/mailman/mail bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>/var/lib/mailman/icons bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>/var/lib/mailman/bin bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>/var/lib/mailman/templates bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>/var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>/var/lib/mailman/scripts bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>/var/lib/mailman/logs bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib bad group (has: root, expected list) (fixing)
>
>in some cases there are links to another directory.  Does this seem normal?
>
>$ ls -l /var/lib/mailman/cron
>lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 Mar  8 02:20 /var/lib/mailman/cron -> 
>/usr/lib/mailman/cron


This is because you have installed some vendors packaged Mailman that
sets prefix to /var/lib/mailman but then symlinks all the immutable
directories in /var/lib/mailman/ to the corresponding
/usr/lib/mailman/ directory, and maybe /var/lib/mailman/logs to
/var/log/mailman.

This is "normal" for your package, but it confuses check_perms because
check_perms sees the group of the link which is actually irrelevant
and then "fixes" the group of the target which is what counts. So,
check_perms has done its job, but the next time it is run, it still
sees the bad group on the link and complains again. You can ignore
these complaints.


>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/<list-name>/2004-April/index.html bad 
>group (has: mailman, expected list) (fixing)
>
>in some cases there are links to another file.  Does this seem normal?
>
># ls -l /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/<list-name>/2004-April/index.html
>lrwxrwxrwx 1 mailman mailman 11 Jul 30  2010 
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/<list-name>/2004-April/index.html -> 
>thread.html


No. This symlink is normal, but normally in your case the
/var/lib/mailman/ directory and all subordinate directories are group
'list' and SETGID so everything in that hierarchy is group 'list'.

It appears that maybe you ported archives from another installation
whose Mailman group was 'mailman' and not 'list'. Now you have all
these symlinks from index.html to thread.html with the wrong group,
and it is difficult at best to change the owner:group of an existing
symlink. You can ignore the complaint from check_perms and leave
things as they are, or you could create a shell script to go through
the archives/private hierarchy and remove all the
archives/private/<list-name>/<period>/index.html -> thread.html
symlinks and recreate them which should give them group 'list' because
the archives/private/<list-name>/<period>/ directories are SETGID, or
if you are sure that all your <list-name>.mbox files are complete and
don't have unescaped "From " lines, you could run something like

#!/bin/sh
for list in `bin/list_lists --bare`; do
    bin/arch --wipe $list
done

to rebuild the HTML archives for all lists.


>also I am getting the following error when visiting the archives page 
>for certain lists.  What is a good way to fix this issue?
>
>--- snip ---
>
>Forbidden
>
>You don't have permission to access /pipermail/<list-name>/ on this server.
>
>--- snip ---
>
># ls -ld *
>drwxrws--- 109 www-data list 4096 Jan 27  2011 private
>drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman  list 4096 Jan 27  2011 public
># ls -ld <mail-list>.mbox/
>drwxrwsr-x 2 80 list 4096 Oct  6  2008 <mail-list>.mbox/


Assuming your web server runs CGI processes as user www-data, the above
owner:group and permissions are correct. The problem may be that in
your apache config, the directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public is
not Option +FollowSymlinks. The other possibility is the web server
runs CGIs as some other user in which case that user needs to own
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private or /var/lib/mailman/archives/private
needs to be o+x.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ifetch at du.edu  Mon Aug 22 07:28:09 2011
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 23:28:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Memory usage climbs for 3rd and 4th outgoing
	qrunner process
Message-ID: <BBABDB3C-8F0B-4141-87D5-55789AC91751@du.edu>

Hello,

I am curious what would cause an outgoing queue runner process to increase in memory usage, when Mailman is idle?

I am running 4 outgoing qrunner slices, using this in mm_cfg.py:

try:
   QRUNNERS.remove(('OutgoingRunner', 1))
   QRUNNERS.append(('OutgoingRunner', 4))
except ValueError:
   pass


I've noticed that the first two processes use 20 MB of memory, the third has climbed to 29MB, and the fourth has climbed to 200Mb - over the past two days.

Even when Mailman is idle and not processing messages, the memory usage for the fourth outgoing runner process remains at 200Mb and continues to rise.

Last week, after running this way for 3 days, this 4th process was using 800 Mb of memory - at the time, Mailman runners were restarted (although Mailman was idle, and would handle messages quickly). WE may be at that point again tomorrow - I'd like to gather what info I can about this process before it runs away.


Here is what these look like right now:

# ps -ax -o pmem -o size -o args |sort -n |tail
Warning: bad syntax, perhaps a bogus '-'? See /usr/share/doc/procps-3.2.8/FAQ
 0.9 184936 /usr/sbin/named -u named
 1.2 20712 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
 1.3 23032 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
 1.3 25164 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
 1.4 25400 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:1:4 -s
 1.7 31936 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
 2.1 41292 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:2:4 -s
 2.2 42612 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
 2.9 55456 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:4 -s
10.1 205020 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:3:4 -


Thanks,

Ivan.























.

From Brian.D.Atkins at uscg.mil  Mon Aug 22 13:02:45 2011
From: Brian.D.Atkins at uscg.mil (Atkins, Brian CTR)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 07:02:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creating a list for announcements only
In-Reply-To: <PC195201108191650590015565cb14a@MSAPIRO>
References: <4C28A2A176D4DF409D9DAB23460F10D20E780827@emo-exmb-m-201.main.ads.uscg.mil>
	<PC195201108191650590015565cb14a@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4C28A2A176D4DF409D9DAB23460F10D20E7C9ABB@emo-exmb-m-201.main.ads.uscg.mil>

Thank you, Mark. This is very, very close to what I need. I appreciate the quick and concise reply.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: mark at msapiro.net [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 7:51 PM
To: Atkins, Brian CTR; Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Creating a list for announcements only

Atkins, Brian CTR wrote:

>I'm trying to create a list so that 1 member and a select group of non-members can send out announcements with the replies coming back to the poster and limit the amount of email that the moderator/poster receives. I also want to have the ability to have members send to the list but messages go to a specific person rather than the list. 


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/3YA9>. That should get you at
least close to what you want.


>I should note that the primary poster is also a moderator, so he receives 2 e-mails for every reply, one for the actual reply and another from mailman telling him he has a post that is moderated.
>
>So what I want is:
>
>Announcement:
>Poster => List 
>
>Reply:
>Member => Poster
>
>New message:
>Member => Authorized recipient


This is the tricky part. See below.


>
>What I'm getting is:
>
>Announcement:
>Poster => List
>
>Reply:
>Member => Poster
>Admin message => Moderator

If you set member_moderation_action to Reject or Discard, you won't get
a held message or notice to the moderator.

If you set first_strip_reply_to to Yes, reply_goes_to_list to Explicit
address and reply_to_address as desired, you can get most replies to
go to reply_to_address. This won't be the poster in all cases, but may
be acceptable.

If you rely on users to just "reply", either reply_goes_to_list =
Poster or reply_goes_to_list = Explicit address will be fine. The
problem comes when they "reply all" because that will include the list.


>New message:
>Member => Held for moderation
>Admin message => Moderator


There is no way to send this message to a specific person. What you can
do is described in the FAQ, namely set member_moderation_action to
Reject and set member_moderation_notice to text explaining that the
message should be sent to "Authorized recipient". However, this may
impact the Reply: case

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org  Mon Aug 22 13:07:44 2011
From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 07:07:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for lists with no members.Repopulsting
 lists. was: Resetting bounce scores globally
In-Reply-To: <PC195201108191657200875eeb3e93f@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC195201108191657200875eeb3e93f@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <4E523880.9020107@libertytrek.org>

On 2011-08-19 7:57 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> Even if I occasionally misspell words (backwords vs backwards) and
> often make typos (Repopulsting vs Repopulating) :)

Oh, that just reminds us all that you are indeed human, not an alien
overlord... ;)

From Brian.D.Atkins at uscg.mil  Mon Aug 22 16:50:25 2011
From: Brian.D.Atkins at uscg.mil (Atkins, Brian CTR)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 10:50:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creating a list for announcements only
References: <4C28A2A176D4DF409D9DAB23460F10D20E780827@emo-exmb-m-201.main.ads.uscg.mil>
	<PC195201108191650590015565cb14a@MSAPIRO> 
Message-ID: <4C28A2A176D4DF409D9DAB23460F10D20E7CA2B2@emo-exmb-m-201.main.ads.uscg.mil>

OK, I'm very close and have made many of the changes suggested both by Mark and from the FAQ. I have one last item I'm having trouble with. I have an explicit reply to address in place. If I set the member_moderation_action to 'discard', will the person/people in the explicit reply to header still get a copy of the message? What about 'reject'?

Thanks,

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Atkins, Brian CTR 
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 7:03 AM
To: 'mark at msapiro.net'; Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Creating a list for announcements only

Thank you, Mark. This is very, very close to what I need. I appreciate the quick and concise reply.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: mark at msapiro.net [mailto:mark at msapiro.net] 
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 7:51 PM
To: Atkins, Brian CTR; Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Creating a list for announcements only

Atkins, Brian CTR wrote:

>I'm trying to create a list so that 1 member and a select group of non-members can send out announcements with the replies coming back to the poster and limit the amount of email that the moderator/poster receives. I also want to have the ability to have members send to the list but messages go to a specific person rather than the list. 


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/3YA9>. That should get you at
least close to what you want.


>I should note that the primary poster is also a moderator, so he receives 2 e-mails for every reply, one for the actual reply and another from mailman telling him he has a post that is moderated.
>
>So what I want is:
>
>Announcement:
>Poster => List 
>
>Reply:
>Member => Poster
>
>New message:
>Member => Authorized recipient


This is the tricky part. See below.


>
>What I'm getting is:
>
>Announcement:
>Poster => List
>
>Reply:
>Member => Poster
>Admin message => Moderator

If you set member_moderation_action to Reject or Discard, you won't get
a held message or notice to the moderator.

If you set first_strip_reply_to to Yes, reply_goes_to_list to Explicit
address and reply_to_address as desired, you can get most replies to
go to reply_to_address. This won't be the poster in all cases, but may
be acceptable.

If you rely on users to just "reply", either reply_goes_to_list =
Poster or reply_goes_to_list = Explicit address will be fine. The
problem comes when they "reply all" because that will include the list.


>New message:
>Member => Held for moderation
>Admin message => Moderator


There is no way to send this message to a specific person. What you can
do is described in the FAQ, namely set member_moderation_action to
Reject and set member_moderation_notice to text explaining that the
message should be sent to "Authorized recipient". However, this may
impact the Reply: case

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 23 02:58:30 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 17:58:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creating a list for announcements only
In-Reply-To: <4C28A2A176D4DF409D9DAB23460F10D20E7CA2B2@emo-exmb-m-201.main.ads.uscg.mil>
Message-ID: <PC195201108221758300406faa7ea34@MSAPIRO>

Atkins, Brian CTR wrote:

>OK, I'm very close and have made many of the changes suggested both by Mark and from the FAQ. I have one last item I'm having trouble with. I have an explicit reply to address in place. If I set the member_moderation_action to 'discard', will the person/people in the explicit reply to header still get a copy of the message? What about 'reject'?


Mailman will not send a copy of the post it received and discarded or
rejected, but if the post is a reply or reply-all to some other list
post it will probably be addressed to the explicit reply to address
placed by Mailman in the Reply-To: header of the post to which this is
a reply.

Basically, You are suggesting to the user's MUA that replies to posts
from the list should be sent to the explicit reply to address, but how
this reply is actually addressed depends on the repliers MUA, whether
the replier said 'reply', 'reply all' or 'reply list' (if available)
and whether or how the replier edited the recipients of the message.
All these things are beyond the control of Mailman and you.

In short, if this is an original post to the list from a moderated
member, it will be rejected or discarded by Mailman and the only
Mailman notice will be to the poster (containing
member_moderation_notice) in the case of reject.

If this is a reply to a list post, it will probably be addressed only
to the explicit reply to address or to that address and the list or to
the list only depending on how the reply was generated.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 23 03:42:36 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 18:42:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Memory usage climbs for 3rd and 4th
	outgoingqrunner process
In-Reply-To: <BBABDB3C-8F0B-4141-87D5-55789AC91751@du.edu>
Message-ID: <PC19520110822184236003199484e43@MSAPIRO>

Ivan Fetch wrote:
>
>I am curious what would cause an outgoing queue runner process to increase in memory usage, when Mailman is idle?


[...]
>
>Even when Mailman is idle and not processing messages, the memory usage for the fourth outgoing runner process remains at 200Mb and continues to rise.
>
>Last week, after running this way for 3 days, this 4th process was using 800 Mb of memory - at the time, Mailman runners were restarted (although Mailman was idle, and would handle messages quickly). WE may be at that point again tomorrow - I'd like to gather what info I can about this process before it runs away.


I can almost guarantee it won't run away. Eventually it will reach a
point where every list object is cached and a maximum sized message
has been handled, and it will stop growing. Eventually, all 4
OutgoingRunners will reach this size (unless this size is due to
processing an anomalously large message, but that doesn't appear to be
the case here as large messages also affect IncomingRunner).

There are threads on this in the archives. Some relevant ones are at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-December/059332.html>,
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-July/062359.html>
and
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-March/069075.html>.

In particular, see the post at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-March/069078.html>
which includes a patch to disable list caching in the qrunners if you
want to try that, but I suggest you first just wait, and I predict the
memory growth will slow and eventually stop and it won't impact
performance because at any given time most of the memory is inactive
and will be swapped out if needed for other processes.

Also, you can add up all the sizes of the lists/*/config.pck files to
get a very rough idea of how much things may grow.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kibsmoses at gmail.com  Mon Aug 22 18:29:55 2011
From: kibsmoses at gmail.com (kibirango moses)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 19:29:55 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing pending requests in mailman database i.e no
	pending requests
Message-ID: <CACqiGiiAtQ5BW7K=opbVe81e2bxAo4UNh8thas4sJcn6=OEdrg@mail.gmail.com>

Hullo Users;
The administrator/moderator of the list gets a message saying that
there is a post pending approval. However, when he logs in and clicks
"Tend to pending moderator requests" there is nothing there. Basically
we keep getting "pending" notices but the queue is empty. It had been
working and no settings were changed.

When a message is sent to a mailing list there are no pending requests
but if sent to a list and some members of the list have the moderation
bit set as off they receive the message .

I am using mailman 2.1.13 on slackware linux 13

How can i solve this?
thanx in advance

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 23 04:41:29 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 19:41:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing pending requests in mailman database
	i.e nopending requests
In-Reply-To: <CACqiGiiAtQ5BW7K=opbVe81e2bxAo4UNh8thas4sJcn6=OEdrg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952011082219412902185183dff7@MSAPIRO>

kibirango moses wrote:

>The administrator/moderator of the list gets a message saying that
>there is a post pending approval. However, when he logs in and clicks
>"Tend to pending moderator requests" there is nothing there. Basically
>we keep getting "pending" notices but the queue is empty. It had been
>working and no settings were changed.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/EoCE>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cappelen at ponderosaca.com  Tue Aug 23 04:27:20 2011
From: cappelen at ponderosaca.com (Carl Cappelen)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 19:27:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setup options
Message-ID: <4E531008.6020604@ponderosaca.com>

First time using Mailman (ver. 2.1.14) as administrator.

Trying to set up all options, what I am looking for, if possible is:
When a subscriber receives a message, would like his reply to go back
to the list sever and also to show (e-mail) address of the sender.
This way most reply's go back to the list server, however if recipient
wants to, he send a message to the directly originator of the message.

TIA
Carl,

From ECHASE at providence.edu  Tue Aug 23 17:19:55 2011
From: ECHASE at providence.edu (Chase, Edward)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 15:19:55 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setup options
Message-ID: <FD2FA876163F574AAAC45BD1A43961F72B6B87AA@DAG02.providence.col>

Under General Options,

Set "Hide the sender" option to "No".  I think this is the default.

Set "Where are the replies directed" option to "This list".

That should do it.  Pretty straight forward.  It probably took you more time to find, subscribe, and send to the mailman-users lists than it would have to figure out these settings.

Good luck with your setup.



-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+echase=providence.edu at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+echase=providence.edu at python.org] On Behalf Of Carl Cappelen
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 10:27 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setup options

First time using Mailman (ver. 2.1.14) as administrator.

Trying to set up all options, what I am looking for, if possible is:
When a subscriber receives a message, would like his reply to go back to the list sever and also to show (e-mail) address of the sender.
This way most reply's go back to the list server, however if recipient wants to, he send a message to the directly originator of the message.

TIA
Carl, 

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 23 17:44:00 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 08:44:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setup options
In-Reply-To: <4E531008.6020604@ponderosaca.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952011082308440006870ab955af@MSAPIRO>

Carl Cappelen wrote:

>First time using Mailman (ver. 2.1.14) as administrator.
>
>Trying to set up all options, what I am looking for, if possible is:
>When a subscriber receives a message, would like his reply to go back
>to the list sever and also to show (e-mail) address of the sender.
>This way most reply's go back to the list server, however if recipient
>wants to, he send a message to the directly originator of the message.


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/44A9>.

Note that if you accept the "as shipped" defaults of anonymous_list =
No, first_strip_reply_to = No and reply_goes_to_list = Poster, the
recipient of a list post can 'reply' to the poster 'reply all' to the
poster and the list and 'reply list' (if offered by her MUA) to the
list only. Other settings make it more difficult to reply to the
poster only.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cappelen at ponderosaca.com  Tue Aug 23 23:56:09 2011
From: cappelen at ponderosaca.com (Carl Cappelen)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 14:56:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setup options
In-Reply-To: <FD2FA876163F574AAAC45BD1A43961F72B6B87AA@DAG02.providence.col>
References: <FD2FA876163F574AAAC45BD1A43961F72B6B87AA@DAG02.providence.col>
Message-ID: <4E5421F9.8040400@ponderosaca.com>

Edward,

That was just what I was looking for and thanks.

Carl,

On 8/23/2011 8:19 AM, Chase, Edward wrote:
> Under General Options,
>
> Set "Hide the sender" option to "No".  I think this is the default.
>
> Set "Where are the replies directed" option to "This list".
>
> That should do it.  Pretty straight forward.  It probably took you more time to find, subscribe, and send to the mailman-users lists than it would have to figure out these settings.
>
> Good luck with your setup.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+echase=providence.edu at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+echase=providence.edu at python.org] On Behalf Of Carl Cappelen
> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 10:27 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] setup options
>
> First time using Mailman (ver. 2.1.14) as administrator.
>
> Trying to set up all options, what I am looking for, if possible is:
> When a subscriber receives a message, would like his reply to go back to the list sever and also to show (e-mail) address of the sender.
> This way most reply's go back to the list server, however if recipient wants to, he send a message to the directly originator of the message.
>
> TIA
> Carl,
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cappelen%40ponderosaca.com
>
>
>


From yugendra.r.guvvala at ttu.edu  Wed Aug 24 10:12:37 2011
From: yugendra.r.guvvala at ttu.edu (Guvvala, Yugendra R)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 03:12:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail to different domains
Message-ID: <8D036864-6F36-4FAE-A298-B6C585A9AE3B@ttu.edu>

Hi, 

I have installed mailman 2.1.13, Postfix, on UBUNTU 10.10,


i did both the installations through apt-get, i am facing 2 issues right now.


1) i can send mails to the users or add users who belong to the domain of our mailing list but we want o go across domains and also add people belonging to standard emails like Gmail, yahoo and also from other institutions. how can i do that.


2) when ever i add a new list i get an email with list of aliases i need to add on the server and i tried to update /etc/aliases automatically using the procedure specified in the link below but was unsuccessful how to fix it.


link : http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-integration.html



Thanks,
Yugendra R. Guvvala
Ph.D. Student
Dept. Of Computer Science
Texas Tech University
Lubbock, TX 79409-3104
e-mail: yugendra.r.guvvala at ttu.edu
Ph:  806-773-4464, 424-222-YUGI(9844)
www.myweb.ttu.edu/yguvvala


From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 24 19:34:35 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 10:34:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail to different domains
In-Reply-To: <8D036864-6F36-4FAE-A298-B6C585A9AE3B@ttu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC19520110824103435023499abe34d@MSAPIRO>

Guvvala, Yugendra R wrote:
>
>I have installed mailman 2.1.13, Postfix, on UBUNTU 10.10,
>
>
>i did both the installations through apt-get, i am facing 2 issues right now.


When you install third party packages, your primary support resource
should be the packager. The packager knows what's in the package and
how it should be configured. We on mailman-users at python.org don't
always know these things.


>1) i can send mails to the users or add users who belong to the domain of our mailing list but we want o go across domains and also add people belonging to standard emails like Gmail, yahoo and also from other institutions. how can i do that.


Configure your Postfix to be able to send to foreign domains. In order
to tell you more, we'd need to know what is in the Postfix logs from
an attempt to mail to a foreign domain and possibly see the output
from "postconf -n".


>2) when ever i add a new list i get an email with list of aliases i need to add on the server and i tried to update /etc/aliases automatically using the procedure specified in the link below but was unsuccessful how to fix it.
>
>
>link : http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-integration.html


Debian/Ubuntu packages often use postfix_to_mailman.py (yet another
third party module) to deliver to Mailman. Is this the case in your
configuration? If so, Add "MTA = None" to mm_cfg.py to stop getting
messages about aliases which aren't required.

If in fact you are using aliases for delivery to Mailman, what exactly
did you do. What changes did you make to mm_cfg.py and Postfix's
main.cf? What is now in mm_cfg.py? What is the output from "postconf
-n"? What exactly is "unsuccessful"? I.e., what happens when you try
to mail to a list? What does Postfix log?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ifetch at du.edu  Thu Aug 25 04:59:18 2011
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 20:59:18 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Memory usage climbs for 3rd and 4th
 outgoingqrunner process
In-Reply-To: <PC19520110822184236003199484e43@MSAPIRO>
References: <PC19520110822184236003199484e43@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <30A2CE03-861E-4C9E-93A9-8385BF54F9F7@du.edu>

Hi Mark,

On Aug 22, 2011, at 7:42 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Ivan Fetch wrote:
>> 
>> I am curious what would cause an outgoing queue runner process to increase in memory usage, when Mailman is idle?
> 
> 
> [...]
>> 
>> Even when Mailman is idle and not processing messages, the memory usage for the fourth outgoing runner process remains at 200Mb and continues to rise.
>> 
>> Last week, after running this way for 3 days, this 4th process was using 800 Mb of memory - at the time, Mailman runners were restarted (although Mailman was idle, and would handle messages quickly). WE may be at that point again tomorrow - I'd like to gather what info I can about this process before it runs away.
> 
> 
> I can almost guarantee it won't run away. Eventually it will reach a
> point where every list object is cached and a maximum sized message
> has been handled, and it will stop growing. Eventually, all 4
> OutgoingRunners will reach this size (unless this size is due to
> processing an anomalously large message, but that doesn't appear to be
> the case here as large messages also affect IncomingRunner).
> 
> There are threads on this in the archives. Some relevant ones are at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-December/059332.html>,
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-July/062359.html>
> and
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-March/069075.html>.
> 
> In particular, see the post at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-March/069078.html>
> which includes a patch to disable list caching in the qrunners if you
> want to try that, but I suggest you first just wait, and I predict the
> memory growth will slow and eventually stop and it won't impact
> performance because at any given time most of the memory is inactive
> and will be swapped out if needed for other processes.
> 

I've let things run, and although there is still some growth, the box has not hit 97% (of 2Gb) memory usage like it did once before. 

# ps -Umailman -o pmem -o size -o args |sort -n
%MEM    SZ COMMAND
 0.2  7388 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start
 0.4  7408 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
 0.8 12740 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
 1.3 23032 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
 1.3 24872 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
 2.4 48280 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
 2.6 50060 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:4 -s
 3.4 67028 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:1:4 -s
 3.6 70140 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
 3.8 84208 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
 6.6 133052 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:2:4 -s
10.1 205020 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:3:4 -s


You mentioned large messages causing similar behavior, but also impacting the incomingrunner. How would I tell whether that is the case?


> Also, you can add up all the sizes of the lists/*/config.pck files to
> get a very rough idea of how much things may grow.

This came out to 32Mb, for 1360 lists.


Thanks,

Ivan.























.

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 25 07:48:01 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 22:48:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Memory usage climbs for 3rd and 4th outgoing
 qrunner process
In-Reply-To: <30A2CE03-861E-4C9E-93A9-8385BF54F9F7@du.edu>
References: <PC19520110822184236003199484e43@MSAPIRO>
	<30A2CE03-861E-4C9E-93A9-8385BF54F9F7@du.edu>
Message-ID: <4E55E211.7020108@msapiro.net>

On 8/24/2011 7:59 PM, Ivan Fetch wrote:
> 
> I've let things run, and although there is still some growth, the box has not hit 97% (of 2Gb) memory usage like it did once before. 


But the question is when the box is at 97% memory utilization, how much
of that memory is actually needed vs. inactive pages that are memory
resident simply because no other process actually needs the memory.


> # ps -Umailman -o pmem -o size -o args |sort -n
> %MEM    SZ COMMAND
>  0.2  7388 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start
>  0.4  7408 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
>  0.8 12740 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
>  1.3 23032 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
>  1.3 24872 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
>  2.4 48280 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
>  2.6 50060 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:4 -s
>  3.4 67028 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:1:4 -s
>  3.6 70140 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
>  3.8 84208 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
>  6.6 133052 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:2:4 -s
> 10.1 205020 /usr/bin/python /mail/mailman/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:3:4 -s
> 
> 
> You mentioned large messages causing similar behavior, but also impacting the incomingrunner. How would I tell whether that is the case?


A large message is queued for Mailman and the queue entry is at least as
large as the raw message. When the message is processed, each runner
that handles it winds up with the entire message in memory and thus must
grow large enough to hold the message.

What I was saying is that in a situation like that above, it would not
be the case that slices 2 or 3 of OutgoingRunner grew to 133 and 205 MB
respectively because of large messages because those messages would have
passed through IncomingRunner and it would have grown comparably large.

>> Also, you can add up all the sizes of the lists/*/config.pck files to
>> get a very rough idea of how much things may grow.
> 
> This came out to 32Mb, for 1360 lists.


The implication of this is that if you leave things long enough,
eventually all the runners will grow to > 32 MB. Four have already, one
is significantly larger which says that I don't really know how to
calculate/explain all the memory usage, but the aggregate size of all
the list objects is definitely a lower bound on how big the qrunners
will grow.

If you find that this is a real problem, you can try the patch at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20100312/24957034/attachment.txt>
which removes the qrunner list cache. But, I don't think this is
actually necessary because even though they are large, most of the
memory will be swapped out for long periods if it is needed by other
processes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Thu Aug 25 09:13:34 2011
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 09:13:34 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman, yahoo! and DKIM signatures
Message-ID: <20110825071334.GB14113@charite.de>

Situation:
==========

A user from charite.de is using the R-project mailinglist (mailman) to
ask a valid question about the R-Project

All our mails are DKIM signed.

Now a list member of the R-project mailinglist at Yahoo! uses the "This
is Spam" button to report the mail as unwanted, and subsequently I (as
postmaster for Charite) receive a spam complaint.

Problem:
========

Yahoo! seems to "trust" the DKIM header and thus indentifies
charite.de as sender, but in fact it's the R-project mailinglist which
distributed the mail.

I would very much prefer *THEM* to receive the "spam"-complaints, since
there's nothing *I* can do (e.g. like unsubscribing the miscreants from the
R-project mailinglist).

So, shouldn't mailman strip existing DKIM headers before distributing
the mail?

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 25 19:12:21 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 10:12:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman, yahoo! and DKIM signatures
In-Reply-To: <20110825071334.GB14113@charite.de>
References: <20110825071334.GB14113@charite.de>
Message-ID: <4E568275.5090306@msapiro.net>

On 8/25/2011 12:13 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
> Situation:
> ==========
> 
> A user from charite.de is using the R-project mailinglist (mailman) to
> ask a valid question about the R-Project
> 
> All our mails are DKIM signed.
> 
> Now a list member of the R-project mailinglist at Yahoo! uses the "This
> is Spam" button to report the mail as unwanted, and subsequently I (as
> postmaster for Charite) receive a spam complaint.
> 
> Problem:
> ========
> 
> Yahoo! seems to "trust" the DKIM header and thus indentifies
> charite.de as sender, but in fact it's the R-project mailinglist which
> distributed the mail.
> 
> I would very much prefer *THEM* to receive the "spam"-complaints, since
> there's nothing *I* can do (e.g. like unsubscribing the miscreants from the
> R-project mailinglist).
> 
> So, shouldn't mailman strip existing DKIM headers before distributing
> the mail?


This is controversial. See
<http://www.google.com/search?q=site:mail.python.org+inurl:mailman-developers+dkim>,
in particular, the thread beginning at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2007-February/019346.html>.
Beginning with Mailman 2.1.7, Mailman unconditionally removed DKIM and
domainkey signature headers from incoming posts. Then, due to the
controversy, beginning with 2.1.10 there is a Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py
setting REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS which controls this and which defaults to No.

I understand that this doesn't help your situation, and trying to
convince all the potential operators of Mailman installations that host
lists that your users might mail to might be even more
frustrating/futile than trying to get Yahoo to do the right thing, but
based on past discussions, it seemed that defaulting Mailman's DKIM
signature removal to No was the right thing for Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From nstupinski at gmail.com  Thu Aug 25 16:13:07 2011
From: nstupinski at gmail.com (Nicoli Stupinski)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 10:13:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Welcome message sent to wrong email address
Message-ID: <CACyhm5qBjN6t7y5fQtZBuJvt82CMAEzLAo=xVM0_OOs=4SHHUA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm running Mailman 2.1.11. I know it's old and I do plan on updating in the
near future but in the meanwhile...

I have send_welcome_msg set to yes.

When some subscribes, the welcome message is not sent to
JoeUser at gmail.combut instead sent to
JoeUser-owner at gmail.com, which of course never gets delivered.

Is there a patch or workaround for this?   (I tried searching the archives
but but had too many false finds)

Thanks,
Nic
**

From kumardhruv88 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 25 11:26:01 2011
From: kumardhruv88 at gmail.com (dhruv kumar)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 14:56:01 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on windows?
Message-ID: <CAJ8YrPVmku28rArweOY8q9zrdEv454abjjsKg37XMyC80Lg96Q@mail.gmail.com>

hi.
I need to install mailman in my windows machine. can I do that?

From NIKkurer at yandex.ru  Thu Aug 25 10:29:32 2011
From: NIKkurer at yandex.ru (NIKKurer)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 12:29:32 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrate mailman to new server
Message-ID: <239101314260972@web127.yandex.ru>

Hello,
I have old mail server (rabbit.mydomain.com) and new mail server (newbie.mydomain.com). I need to migrate mailman from old to new server.
I used the instructions found in this mailing list:

1. Copied all of /var/lib/mailman/lists/ from the old server to the new
one.
2. Fixed the permissions with "chown -R mailman:mailman
/var/lib/mailman/lists/"
3. Fixed the urls for the new one with "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -l -r
fix_url [listname]"
for each list.  (Only necessary if the new server has a different domain
name than the old one - one time I was moving from xcski.com to
list.xcski.com and the other time I was keeping the same list.xcski.com
url.)
4. Copied all /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/*mbox/*mbox to the new
server.
5. Fixed the permissions with "chown -R mailman:mailman
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private"
6. Regenerated the archives using "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/arch [listname]"
for each list.  Note that if your archives are big, this process can
consume all the memory in your system and then some, so you may have to
split the mbox files up and regenerate the list archives in peices or use
the "--start" and "--end" options to arch.

But coming on http://newbie.domain.com/mailman I get to http://rabbit.domain.com/mailman/listinfo

Could you help me resolve this problem?

-- 
Best regards
Alex Trifonov

From jbarnes at ccsuvt.org  Thu Aug 25 21:54:42 2011
From: jbarnes at ccsuvt.org (Jack Barnes)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 15:54:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription without confirmation or approval.
Message-ID: <CAHoTCRQ+m_wN_m_uPjPYROYxK2=85qDWX2cncCL3dyaMuV_+Mg@mail.gmail.com>

We want to have users subscribe to a list but we don't want to require
approval or confirmation.  Under privacy options there isn't an option for
this.  These lists are outgoing only for the most part, and these are lists
for school classes so we don't expect to have strangers subscribing.   Is
there a way to override the privicy options?

If not, is there a way to edit the confirmation and remove the reply option
so they are forced to go to the confirmation url?

Thanks,

Jack W. Barnes, CNE
Head Network Administrator
CCSU
jbarnes at ccsuvt.org
Office 802-857-7000
Ext. 1039
Cell 802-318-0976
Fax 802-879-8197

CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION. THIS MESSAGE MAY NOT BE FORWARDED.

The information contained in this communication, including any attachments,
is confidential,constitutes privileged communication, and is intended only for the use of the addressee.
This message may not be forwarded without prior consent from the sender.
The information in this e-mail is also protected by the rights afforded under Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA)
and school district policies.
Any unauthorized use, forwarding, distribution,disclosure, printing or copying is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately at 802-857-7000 x1234
or return e-mail,and delete any copies of this message immediately.
Any inadvertent disclosure of this communication shall not compromise the confidential nature of the communication.

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 25 21:56:09 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 12:56:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Welcome message sent to wrong email address
In-Reply-To: <CACyhm5qBjN6t7y5fQtZBuJvt82CMAEzLAo=xVM0_OOs=4SHHUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201108251256090062915b1d87@MSAPIRO>

Nicoli Stupinski wrote:
>
>When some subscribes, the welcome message is not sent to
>JoeUser at gmail.combut instead sent to
>JoeUser-owner at gmail.com, which of course never gets delivered.
>
>Is there a patch or workaround for this?   (I tried searching the archives
>but but had too many false finds)


Go to the web list admin General Options page and set umbrella_list to
No.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 25 22:03:37 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 13:03:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrate mailman to new server
In-Reply-To: <239101314260972@web127.yandex.ru>
Message-ID: <PC195201108251303370734ff5f09c3@MSAPIRO>

NIKKurer wrote:
>
>But coming on http://newbie.domain.com/mailman I get to http://rabbit.domain.com/mailman/listinfo
>
>Could you help me resolve this problem?


Look at your web server's configuration file(s). You probably have
something like

RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$  http://rabbit.domain.com/mailman/listinfo

This should be

RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$  /mailman/listinfo

instead.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 25 22:17:16 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 13:17:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on windows?
In-Reply-To: <CAJ8YrPVmku28rArweOY8q9zrdEv454abjjsKg37XMyC80Lg96Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201108251317160875816ed1bb@MSAPIRO>

dhruv kumar wrote:

>I need to install mailman in my windows machine. can I do that?


It's possible but not easy. There is a FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/oYA9> that discusses one way to do it.

In addition to Mailman, you also need a web server (Apache, IIS, etc.)
and an MTA (e.g. Exim). Also, if you are going to send mail directly
from your Windows machine, You need a fixed IP and full circle DNS
(See <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward-confirmed_reverse_DNS>) as
a minimum in order to keep many ISPs from blocking your mail.

Also you need to be concerned about security. I run a Windows box with
Cygwin and Exim full time, and I can run Mailman and Apache as needed
for testing, but I would never consider exposing a web server on a
Windows box to the internet for more that brief periods.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Aug 25 22:26:17 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 13:26:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription without confirmation or approval.
In-Reply-To: <CAHoTCRQ+m_wN_m_uPjPYROYxK2=85qDWX2cncCL3dyaMuV_+Mg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952011082513261701404b6cc91d@MSAPIRO>

Jack Barnes wrote:

>We want to have users subscribe to a list but we don't want to require
>approval or confirmation.


If you set

ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = Yes

in mm_cfg.py, you will be offered a 'None' choice under Privacy
options... -> Subscription rules -> subscribe_policy which will do
what you want.

You can also set

DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 0

to make that the default choice for new lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mailman at veggiechinese.net  Thu Aug 25 22:33:39 2011
From: mailman at veggiechinese.net (William Yardley)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 13:33:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription without confirmation or approval.
In-Reply-To: <CAHoTCRQ+m_wN_m_uPjPYROYxK2=85qDWX2cncCL3dyaMuV_+Mg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHoTCRQ+m_wN_m_uPjPYROYxK2=85qDWX2cncCL3dyaMuV_+Mg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110825203338.GB27688@mitch.veggiechinese.net>

On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 03:54:42PM -0400, Jack Barnes wrote:

> We want to have users subscribe to a list but we don't want to require
> approval or confirmation.  Under privacy options there isn't an option for
> this.  These lists are outgoing only for the most part, and these are lists
> for school classes so we don't expect to have strangers subscribing.   Is
> there a way to override the privicy options?

If you use the bulk subscribe options (from the web interface and / or
CLI), you can override both the confirmation requirement and the
notification.

w


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Fri Aug 26 08:53:54 2011
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 08:53:54 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman, yahoo! and DKIM signatures
In-Reply-To: <4E568275.5090306@msapiro.net>
References: <20110825071334.GB14113@charite.de> <4E568275.5090306@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20110826065354.GC23290@charite.de>

* Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:

> This is controversial. See
> <http://www.google.com/search?q=site:mail.python.org+inurl:mailman-developers+dkim>,
> in particular, the thread beginning at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2007-February/019346.html>.
> Beginning with Mailman 2.1.7, Mailman unconditionally removed DKIM and
> domainkey signature headers from incoming posts. Then, due to the
> controversy, beginning with 2.1.10 there is a Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py
> setting REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS which controls this and which defaults to No.
> 
> I understand that this doesn't help your situation, and trying to
> convince all the potential operators of Mailman installations that host
> lists that your users might mail to might be even more
> frustrating/futile than trying to get Yahoo to do the right thing, but
> based on past discussions, it seemed that defaulting Mailman's DKIM
> signature removal to No was the right thing for Mailman.

Well, it's good to hear somebody put some thought into this :)

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From kumardhruv88 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 26 13:10:28 2011
From: kumardhruv88 at gmail.com (dhruv kumar)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 16:40:28 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on windows?
In-Reply-To: <PC195201108251317160875816ed1bb@MSAPIRO>
References: <CAJ8YrPVmku28rArweOY8q9zrdEv454abjjsKg37XMyC80Lg96Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195201108251317160875816ed1bb@MSAPIRO>
Message-ID: <CAJ8YrPXP-kB5ZMDbMJRv9nQ_WF+rE3NCk603jiQ19PDS3wyUXg@mail.gmail.com>

hello,
I have a windows xp machine. the wiki discusses about windows 2000.
any another idea?

From kumardhruv88 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 26 16:38:08 2011
From: kumardhruv88 at gmail.com (dhruv kumar)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 20:08:08 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on windows?
In-Reply-To: <20110826143504.GC12921@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
References: <CAJ8YrPVmku28rArweOY8q9zrdEv454abjjsKg37XMyC80Lg96Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195201108251317160875816ed1bb@MSAPIRO>
	<CAJ8YrPXP-kB5ZMDbMJRv9nQ_WF+rE3NCk603jiQ19PDS3wyUXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110826143504.GC12921@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
Message-ID: <CAJ8YrPX+EpDZ5dGhyycehgd2dAO=AruWWHVnsf39EVnkcz0BAQ@mail.gmail.com>

I not aford vm-wear

From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk  Fri Aug 26 16:35:04 2011
From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 15:35:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on windows?
In-Reply-To: <CAJ8YrPXP-kB5ZMDbMJRv9nQ_WF+rE3NCk603jiQ19PDS3wyUXg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ8YrPVmku28rArweOY8q9zrdEv454abjjsKg37XMyC80Lg96Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195201108251317160875816ed1bb@MSAPIRO>
	<CAJ8YrPXP-kB5ZMDbMJRv9nQ_WF+rE3NCk603jiQ19PDS3wyUXg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110826143504.GC12921@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 04:40:28PM +0530, dhruv kumar wrote:
> hello,
> I have a windows xp machine. the wiki discusses about windows 2000.

Try it out, and report back with your experiences?

> any another idea?

VirtualBox / VMWare?

-- 
"Minister if you are going to promote women just because they're the
 best person for the job you're going to provoke a lot of resentment
 throughout the whole of the civil service!" 
    -- Humphrey Appelby, 'Yes Minister'

From informatica at actiu.net  Fri Aug 26 17:11:29 2011
From: informatica at actiu.net (Narcis Garcia - GiLUG)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 17:11:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on windows?
In-Reply-To: <CAJ8YrPX+EpDZ5dGhyycehgd2dAO=AruWWHVnsf39EVnkcz0BAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ8YrPVmku28rArweOY8q9zrdEv454abjjsKg37XMyC80Lg96Q@mail.gmail.com>	<PC195201108251317160875816ed1bb@MSAPIRO>	<CAJ8YrPXP-kB5ZMDbMJRv9nQ_WF+rE3NCk603jiQ19PDS3wyUXg@mail.gmail.com>	<20110826143504.GC12921@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
	<CAJ8YrPX+EpDZ5dGhyycehgd2dAO=AruWWHVnsf39EVnkcz0BAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E57B7A1.5030206@actiu.net>

On Microsoft Windows you can use the recommended Microsoft Virtual PC to 
have a virtual machine running a GNU/Linux system, where to place a 
Mailman installation.



Al 26/08/11 16:38, En/na dhruv kumar ha escrit:
> I not aford vm-wear
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/informatica%40actiu.net

From kumardhruv88 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 27 03:49:32 2011
From: kumardhruv88 at gmail.com (dhruv kumar)
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 07:19:32 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on windows?
In-Reply-To: <4E57B7A1.5030206@actiu.net>
References: <CAJ8YrPVmku28rArweOY8q9zrdEv454abjjsKg37XMyC80Lg96Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195201108251317160875816ed1bb@MSAPIRO>
	<CAJ8YrPXP-kB5ZMDbMJRv9nQ_WF+rE3NCk603jiQ19PDS3wyUXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110826143504.GC12921@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
	<CAJ8YrPX+EpDZ5dGhyycehgd2dAO=AruWWHVnsf39EVnkcz0BAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E57B7A1.5030206@actiu.net>
Message-ID: <CAJ8YrPUKgb_wGxVBP=Diui2r4Jd=ZJz+nPyKp8pUfcuRRmfZ8g@mail.gmail.com>

that is free?

On 8/26/11, Narcis Garcia - GiLUG <informatica at actiu.net> wrote:
> On Microsoft Windows you can use the recommended Microsoft Virtual PC to
> have a virtual machine running a GNU/Linux system, where to place a
> Mailman installation.
>
>
>
> Al 26/08/11 16:38, En/na dhruv kumar ha escrit:
>> I not aford vm-wear
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>> Searchable Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/informatica%40actiu.net
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/kumardhruv88%40gmail.com
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 27 04:21:53 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 19:21:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on windows?
In-Reply-To: <CAJ8YrPUKgb_wGxVBP=Diui2r4Jd=ZJz+nPyKp8pUfcuRRmfZ8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ8YrPVmku28rArweOY8q9zrdEv454abjjsKg37XMyC80Lg96Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195201108251317160875816ed1bb@MSAPIRO>
	<CAJ8YrPXP-kB5ZMDbMJRv9nQ_WF+rE3NCk603jiQ19PDS3wyUXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110826143504.GC12921@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
	<CAJ8YrPX+EpDZ5dGhyycehgd2dAO=AruWWHVnsf39EVnkcz0BAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E57B7A1.5030206@actiu.net>
	<CAJ8YrPUKgb_wGxVBP=Diui2r4Jd=ZJz+nPyKp8pUfcuRRmfZ8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E5854C1.3020802@msapiro.net>

On 8/26/2011 6:49 PM, dhruv kumar wrote:
> that is free?
> 
> On 8/26/11, Narcis Garcia - GiLUG <informatica at actiu.net> wrote:
>> On Microsoft Windows you can use the recommended Microsoft Virtual PC to
>> have a virtual machine running a GNU/Linux system, where to place a
>> Mailman installation.


Yes, it's free. See
<http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/support/virtual-pc-2007.aspx>
for the version appropriate for Windows XP.

Also note that while the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/oYA9> refers to
Windows 2000, it is applicable to any version of Windows that can run
Cygwin <http://www.cygwin.com/>. Also, the Windows box I referred to in
my reply at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2011-August/072150.html>
is Windows XP, SP3 running Cygwin with Cygwin packages for Apache and
Exim, and Python and Mailman installed from source although the Cygwin
packageed Python should be fine.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From informatica at actiu.net  Sat Aug 27 08:24:18 2011
From: informatica at actiu.net (Narcis Garcia - GiLUG)
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 08:24:18 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on windows?
In-Reply-To: <4E5854C1.3020802@msapiro.net>
References: <CAJ8YrPVmku28rArweOY8q9zrdEv454abjjsKg37XMyC80Lg96Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC195201108251317160875816ed1bb@MSAPIRO>
	<CAJ8YrPXP-kB5ZMDbMJRv9nQ_WF+rE3NCk603jiQ19PDS3wyUXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110826143504.GC12921@hendricks.amyl.org.uk>
	<CAJ8YrPX+EpDZ5dGhyycehgd2dAO=AruWWHVnsf39EVnkcz0BAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E57B7A1.5030206@actiu.net>
	<CAJ8YrPUKgb_wGxVBP=Diui2r4Jd=ZJz+nPyKp8pUfcuRRmfZ8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E5854C1.3020802@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4E588D92.3060509@actiu.net>

You are also free to buy the products and to accept their terms and 
conditions without knowing the consequences.

Of course is a better situation to run GNU/Linux in a host, at full 
performance, without viruses, and with wider freedom and control.


Al 27/08/11 04:21, En/na Mark Sapiro ha escrit:
> On 8/26/2011 6:49 PM, dhruv kumar wrote:
>> that is free?
>>
>> On 8/26/11, Narcis Garcia - GiLUG<informatica at actiu.net>  wrote:
>>> On Microsoft Windows you can use the recommended Microsoft Virtual PC to
>>> have a virtual machine running a GNU/Linux system, where to place a
>>> Mailman installation.
>
>
> Yes, it's free. See
> <http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/support/virtual-pc-2007.aspx>
> for the version appropriate for Windows XP.
>
> Also note that while the FAQ at<http://wiki.list.org/x/oYA9>  refers to
> Windows 2000, it is applicable to any version of Windows that can run
> Cygwin<http://www.cygwin.com/>. Also, the Windows box I referred to in
> my reply at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2011-August/072150.html>
> is Windows XP, SP3 running Cygwin with Cygwin packages for Apache and
> Exim, and Python and Mailman installed from source although the Cygwin
> packageed Python should be fine.
>

From sako.eaton at gmail.com  Fri Aug 26 16:12:33 2011
From: sako.eaton at gmail.com (S. Patrick Eaton)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 23:12:33 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests stop being sent after a few days if the
 Mailman interface is changed to Japanese
Message-ID: <CAEkPYA=aLXrJU3K2_Xnp3ZjXKTxoMEccMg6_m1GDjF8FhqMBZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, everyone.

I'm a long-time user of Mailman, but a first-time poster here. Please
go easy on me while I get my bearings, okay?

I am running a Mailman list for a group of translators who work with
the Japanese language (translating either into Japanese or from
Japanese into another language), and because most of the subscribers
are native speakers of either Japanese or English (although there are
speakers of other languages as well) most of the messages posted to
this list are in either of those languages, and often they mix both
languages in the same message.

I've been having a number of problems with the distribution of digest
messages that I am hoping someone here can help me with.

The first is that, unless the Mailman administrative interface is
changed to Japanese, any Japanese characters included in digest
messages get changed into question mark characters when the digest is
sent out, even if those characters appeared correctly in the message
that was sent out to non-digest subscribers. If the interface is
changed to Japanese, this does not occur; Japanese characters then
appear in the digests the way they should.

This, however, inevitably runs into another problem: When the
interface is changed to Japanese, the distribution of digests
continues for a while, but inevitably it stops at some point and does
not resume until the interface is changed back to English, at which
point all of the messages that had not been distributed in digests
since the last digest was sent get included in the next digest
message, which can be quite massive if the digests have not been
getting sent out regularly for a while.

I've looked through some of the digest-related bugs recorded at
Launchpad, and these give me the impression that this sort of problem
(if not this exact issue) is not entirely unknown to the developers,
and there may even be a solution of some sort already, but I have not
yet found it.

If my understanding of the problem is correct, it seems like some
non-standard characters that are included in some inbound messages
cause problems for the process handling the digests, which for some
reason does not recover if it encounters such problems, unless it is
somehow manually reset (such as when the interface language changes,
as described above). I know that most of the messages sent to the list
are encoded as either UTF-8 or ISO-2022-JP, but I don't really know
which characters might be causing the digests to get clogged up.

I have encountered this very same problem in two Mailman
installations, one running Mailman 2.1.9 and another running Mailman
2.1.12, on two entirely separate hosted environments, so I am
reasonably sure that the problem is specific to Mailman and not to
installation or environment-related issues.

If anyone has any advice or suggestions (in either English or
Japanese!) that might help me solve this problem, I would be very glad
to hear them. Although this is the first time I have posted to this
list about this, it is a problem that has been occurring for quite
some time, so it would be a great relief to be able to get it
resolved.

With many thanks in advance for your time and consideration,

Patrick Eaton

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Aug 27 19:52:02 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 10:52:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests stop being sent after a few days if
	theMailman interface is changed to Japanese
In-Reply-To: <CAEkPYA=aLXrJU3K2_Xnp3ZjXKTxoMEccMg6_m1GDjF8FhqMBZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201108271052020578ca6cdbc4@MSAPIRO>

S. Patrick Eaton wroye:
>
>I've been having a number of problems with the distribution of digest
>messages that I am hoping someone here can help me with.
>
>The first is that, unless the Mailman administrative interface is
>changed to Japanese, any Japanese characters included in digest
>messages get changed into question mark characters when the digest is
>sent out, even if those characters appeared correctly in the message
>that was sent out to non-digest subscribers. If the interface is
>changed to Japanese, this does not occur; Japanese characters then
>appear in the digests the way they should.


This occurs with 'plain' format digests because they are produced in
the character set of the list's language which for English is
us-ascii. It does not occur with the MIME format digest because in
that digest, the individual messages are separate MIME parts that
retain the original character set and encoding.

You could try setting the digest members' digest format to MIME
(uncheck plain in Membership Management... -> Membership List for
digest members and set Digest options -> mime_is_default_digest to
MIME so new members get MIME digests by default.

This may or may not be satisfactory for any particular digest member
depending on the member's MUA. Some MUAs including those on smart
phones do not handle MIME format digests well.


>This, however, inevitably runs into another problem: When the
>interface is changed to Japanese, the distribution of digests
>continues for a while, but inevitably it stops at some point and does
>not resume until the interface is changed back to English, at which
>point all of the messages that had not been distributed in digests
>since the last digest was sent get included in the next digest
>message, which can be quite massive if the digests have not been
>getting sent out regularly for a while.
>
[...]
>
>I have encountered this very same problem in two Mailman
>installations, one running Mailman 2.1.9 and another running Mailman
>2.1.12, on two entirely separate hosted environments, so I am
>reasonably sure that the problem is specific to Mailman and not to
>installation or environment-related issues.


There should be a message in Mailman's error log saying "send_digests()
failed:" with a specific exception. Beginning with Mailman 2.1.14, a
traceback from the exception is also logged.

The exception itself occurs because there is some message among those
accumulated for the digest (in the lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox file)
that is causing some exception to be thrown in processing the messages
for the digest. It is not possible to say what the problem is without
seeing the exception and the offending message or digest.mbox.

This problem used to also stop list delivery when the digest.mbox
reached the threshold size that would trigger a digest, but that bug
has been fixed. However,your situation is more difficult. Ideally,
Mailman would just remove the offending message from the digest and
store it aside somewhere, but doing this is not straightforward,and it
currently isn't done, so what happens is the exception aborts the
digest processing, but the digest.mbox is unchanged, so the exception
continues each time there is an attempt to produce a digest.

In your situation, the exception depends on the list's language so
changing the language allows a digest to be produced and the
digest.mbox removed so the problem doesn't recur even if you change
the language back until another offending message arrives.

If you are able to report the exception from the error log, please do.
Also, if you are able and willing to send me (off list) a copy of an
offending lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox file or put it on the web
somewhere and post or send me a link, I will try to find just what it
is about certain messages that causes this.

A possible avoidance is to change Mailman's character set for English
from us-ascii to utf-8 and leave the list's language set to English.
To do this, you would add the line

add_language('en', 'English (USA)', 'utf-8')

to mm_cfg.py. You could possibly also avoid this by changing Mailman's
character set for Japanese from euc-jp to utf-8, but this is more
difficult as it also requires transliterating the Japanese templates
and message catalog.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tokio.kikuchi at gmail.com  Sun Aug 28 01:29:18 2011
From: tokio.kikuchi at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?6I+K5Zyw5pmC5aSr?=)
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 08:29:18 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests stop being sent after a few days if the
 Mailman interface is changed to Japanese
In-Reply-To: <CAEkPYA=aLXrJU3K2_Xnp3ZjXKTxoMEccMg6_m1GDjF8FhqMBZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEkPYA=aLXrJU3K2_Xnp3ZjXKTxoMEccMg6_m1GDjF8FhqMBZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E597DCE.4060308@gmail.com>

Hello,

> If anyone has any advice or suggestions (in either English or
> Japanese!) that might help me solve this problem, I would be very glad
> to hear them. Although this is the first time I have posted to this
> list about this, it is a problem that has been occurring for quite
> some time, so it would be a great relief to be able to get it
> resolved.

Will you please read the summary of problems when mailman is used in
Japanese environment:
http://www.python.jp/doc/contrib/mailman/siteadmin.html#id21

The problem lies in that while the Japanese characters which are usable
in computers are expanding and most Japanese are using them with
extended JIS (iso-2022-jp) code system but the IANA standard for
iso-2022-jp has stopped at 1980's and Python codec is strict on IANA.

The best solution I believe is to upgrade your mailman to Japanese
adapted mailman and enable 'iso2022jpfix' in mm_cfg.py.
http://www.python.jp/doc/contrib/mailman/releases.html

Regards,

-- 
Tokio Kikuch, tokio.kikuchi at gmail.com tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp

From tokio.kikuchi at gmail.com  Mon Aug 29 04:56:21 2011
From: tokio.kikuchi at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?6I+K5Zyw5pmC5aSr?=)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 11:56:21 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests stop being sent after a few days if the
 Mailman interface is changed to Japanese
In-Reply-To: <CAEkPYA=_=gBB1q8V_52z-_8XQJD8eZFbYhh2zn_5Wpc_ntN8Qw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEkPYA=aLXrJU3K2_Xnp3ZjXKTxoMEccMg6_m1GDjF8FhqMBZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E597DCE.4060308@gmail.com>
	<CAEkPYA=_=gBB1q8V_52z-_8XQJD8eZFbYhh2zn_5Wpc_ntN8Qw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E5AFFD5.2060701@gmail.com>

Hi,

(11/08/28 16:18), S. Patrick Eaton wrote:
> Mark, Kikuchi-san,
>
> Thank you both for the very thorough and helpful responses!
>
> I think the approach would be the one that Kikuchi-san describes, but
> it seems like that might involve making changes that our host might
> not want to make (particularly if it will affect their other users). I
> will check with them and see what they can do for us in that area.
>
> If it turns out that they are unable to upgrade to the
> Japanese-enabled version, would changing the character set for English
> to UTF-8 be enough to prevent this problem from occurring? I suspect
> that might be a bit easier for our host to agree to.

In that case, you should apply the second option which hack the mailman
or system supplied email/charset.py.  In this case you should watch the
mailman or system upgrade because it will revert the hack.

>
> Thanks again for the suggestions!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Patrick Eaton
>


-- 
???? tokio.kikuchi at gmail.com
2011/3/31 ???? ???? ????????
(????????) tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp

From dandrews at visi.com  Mon Aug 29 02:24:16 2011
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 19:24:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RSS Feeds
Message-ID: <auto-000026127008@mailfront3.g2host.com>

Is there a way to add RSS feeds to Mailman lists?



Dave


From r.nix at mcnixgolf.com  Sun Aug 28 23:43:55 2011
From: r.nix at mcnixgolf.com (Roy - McNix)
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 17:43:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searchable by topic Arvhives for Mailman
Message-ID: <E0F4CA4484514738994B665C0FBCFFFB@HomeOfficePC>

I am currently using Googlegroups and want to move my group to Mailman. The only thing holding me back is the lack of a good Archive that is searchable by topic or key word. Does anyone have any suggestions what to use to allow my group to do research on old posts with a good easy to search archive?

Thanks

Roy

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 29 06:15:58 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 21:15:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searchable by topic Arvhives for Mailman
In-Reply-To: <E0F4CA4484514738994B665C0FBCFFFB@HomeOfficePC>
References: <E0F4CA4484514738994B665C0FBCFFFB@HomeOfficePC>
Message-ID: <4E5B127E.7000103@msapiro.net>

On 8/28/11 2:43 PM, Roy - McNix wrote:
> I am currently using Googlegroups and want to move my group to
> Mailman. The only thing holding me back is the lack of a good Archive
> that is searchable by topic or key word. Does anyone have any
> suggestions what to use to allow my group to do research on old posts
> with a good easy to search archive?


See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/MoA9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    Better use your sense - B. Dylan

From sven at 0x80.io  Mon Aug 29 14:15:57 2011
From: sven at 0x80.io (Sven Reissmann)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 14:15:57 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hide Senders IP-Adress (not Email-Adress) when
	sending mail to list
Message-ID: <4E5B82FD.4080300@0x80.io>

Hi,

I am trying to find a solution for filtering the first-senders ip/host
information out of an email header. (I am running mailman with postfix).

I am already doing the anonymization when sending mail for "normal"
users by setting smtpd_sasl_authenticated_header=yes and then using
header_checks to replace the part of the header where the users ip
address can be found with 127.0.0.1.

For mailman I found the anonymous list option, that will hide the
email-address of the original sender but not his ip address. What I want
to do is leaving the senders email-address in the header but hide the
ip-address (or replace it by the list servers address).

[The reason for this (in case this raises questions) are the data
retention efforts of germany and other countries.]

So my questions would be:

- Is there a possibility for mailman itself to replace the senders
address by lets say the mailservers address (IP not Mail).

- If not, is there a possibility to add any extra header information
(like the Authenticated-Header i mentioned before) by mailman? I would
need some unique string inside the header that can be addressed by my
rexular expression.

Thanks in advance,
Sven.

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From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Aug 29 17:50:00 2011
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 17:50:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hide Senders IP-Adress (not Email-Adress) when
 sending mail to list
In-Reply-To: <4E5B82FD.4080300@0x80.io>
References: <4E5B82FD.4080300@0x80.io>
Message-ID: <20110829155000.GF23927@charite.de>

> I am trying to find a solution for filtering the first-senders ip/host
> information out of an email header. (I am running mailman with postfix).

The very first? E.g. the IP of the dialup the user is sending from?

> I am already doing the anonymization when sending mail for "normal"
> users by setting smtpd_sasl_authenticated_header=yes and then using
> header_checks to replace the part of the header where the users ip
> address can be found with 127.0.0.1.

OK. Why not do the same for the other users?

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
	    

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Aug 29 19:12:16 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 10:12:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hide Senders IP-Adress (not Email-Adress)
	whensending mail to list
In-Reply-To: <4E5B82FD.4080300@0x80.io>
Message-ID: <PC1952011082910121606566f1ce860@MSAPIRO>

Sven Reissmann wrote:
>
>For mailman I found the anonymous list option, that will hide the
>email-address of the original sender but not his ip address.


What Mailman version is this? Beginning with Mailman 2.1.13, all the
Received: headers are removed and some others in addition to the
original anonymized set are removed or munged. I realize this is not
what you say you want, but I think that currently, all header
information that could possibly even partially identify the poster is
removed from posts to anonymous lists.


>What I want
>to do is leaving the senders email-address in the header but hide the
>ip-address (or replace it by the list servers address).
>
>[The reason for this (in case this raises questions) are the data
>retention efforts of germany and other countries.]
>
>So my questions would be:
>
>- Is there a possibility for mailman itself to replace the senders
>address by lets say the mailservers address (IP not Mail).


Mailman could easily do this with a custom handler. See
<http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From sven at 0x80.io  Mon Aug 29 19:32:20 2011
From: sven at 0x80.io (Sven Reissmann)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 19:32:20 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hide Senders IP-Adress (not Email-Adress) when
 sending mail to list
In-Reply-To: <20110829155000.GF23927@charite.de>
References: <4E5B82FD.4080300@0x80.io> <20110829155000.GF23927@charite.de>
Message-ID: <4E5BCD24.7030609@0x80.io>

Hi,

Am 29.08.2011 17:50, schrieb Ralf Hildebrandt:
>> I am trying to find a solution for filtering the first-senders ip/host
>> information out of an email header. (I am running mailman with postfix).
> 
> The very first? E.g. the IP of the dialup the user is sending from?
> 

exactly.

>> I am already doing the anonymization when sending mail for "normal"
>> users by setting smtpd_sasl_authenticated_header=yes and then using
>> header_checks to replace the part of the header where the users ip
>> address can be found with 127.0.0.1.
> 
> OK. Why not do the same for the other users?
> 

Right.. I'm sorry, I kind of missed the point here. I didn't understood
the meaning of Authenticated-Header exactly. Thought that there is none
for mailing lists as users don't authenticate "with passwords".
I am now using nearly the same regexp as i do for imap users. I got the
regexp from the web and modified it slightly. So far it seems to work
without any issues. I poste it here in case anyone is interested. (If
anyone sees problems or cases where it wouldn't work, please let me know :))


/^Received: from (.* \([-._[:alnum:]]+
\[[.[:digit:]]{7,15}\]\)).*?([[:space:]]+).*\(Authenticated sender:
([^)]+)\).*by (mx\.server\.net) \(([^)]+)\) with (E?SMTPS?A?) id
([A-F[:digit:]]+)(.*)/
  REPLACE Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost
[127.0.0.1])$2(Authenticated sender: $3)${2}with $6 id $7 $8


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From iacopo at dodici12.com  Tue Aug 30 11:34:40 2011
From: iacopo at dodici12.com (Iacopo Torrini)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 18:34:40 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachment problem
Message-ID: <4E5CAEB0.8010009@dodici12.com>

Hi everybody,

I am using mailman 2.1.10 and I think this is really a godsent 
application, stable and reliable.

I am experiencing a problem though and I am not sure if it has to do 
with the mail server or if it a mailman bug. I cannot remember exactly 
when it started, so it is difficult to determine the cause.

In all the mailing lists I am running if somebody sends the mail with an 
attachment, the mail disappears. It is not rejected nor bounced, it 
seems like it went thru but nothing happens.

If I sent a mail w/attachment from a NOTregistered mail, I receive the 
bounce message (both user and admin) and the mail is there, waiting for 
approval with its attachment. Once I approve the mail/new user, the mail 
disappears. It does not even leave track in the progressive numbering in 
the subject. Desaparecido.

I tried to:
1) to disable the content filtering (yes, I always kept it disabled)
2) enable the filtering but erase all file extensions
3) set maximum mail size to 0
4) set maximum mail size to 50000 (attachment was 30K)

Still no luck...

Mails without attachments are just fine.

I would appreciate any advice!!!
thanks in advance//

iacopo

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Aug 30 18:51:26 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 09:51:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachment problem
In-Reply-To: <4E5CAEB0.8010009@dodici12.com>
Message-ID: <PC1952011083009512602502aa3df94@MSAPIRO>

Iacopo Torrini wrote:
>
>In all the mailing lists I am running if somebody sends the mail with an 
>attachment, the mail disappears. It is not rejected nor bounced, it 
>seems like it went thru but nothing happens.
>
>If I sent a mail w/attachment from a NOTregistered mail, I receive the 
>bounce message (both user and admin) and the mail is there, waiting for 
>approval with its attachment. Once I approve the mail/new user, the mail 
>disappears. It does not even leave track in the progressive numbering in 
>the subject. Desaparecido.


So something is happening in the processing pipeline after the
'Moderate' handler which holds non-member posts. What is in Mailman's
logs - particularly 'error' and 'vette'?


>I tried to:
>1) to disable the content filtering (yes, I always kept it disabled)
>2) enable the filtering but erase all file extensions
>3) set maximum mail size to 0
>4) set maximum mail size to 50000 (attachment was 30K)


A programmed discard will produce a "Message discarded, msgid: ..."
message in the vette log. The only ones that occur after Moderate are
in Scrubber and MimeDel. Since this occurs with content filtering off,
it's not MimeDel. It's not likely to be Scrubber either since
Scrubber's discard only occurs with single part HTML messages, not
with messages with attachments.

This leaves some exception occurring in processing messages with
attachments. This shoud produce an error message and traceback in the
error log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From klemen at humerca.com  Wed Aug 31 11:05:04 2011
From: klemen at humerca.com (Klemen Humerca)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 11:05:04 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + mysql
Message-ID: <4E5DF940.2090605@humerca.com>

Hello.

I'm trying to make Mailman to work with Mysql database. I followed this 
instructions: http://goo.gl/QkTso and in mail log this is the last line:

postfix/local[13381]: AA4B9B38235: to=<clani at xxxxx.xx>, relay=local, 
delay=0.39, delays=0.02/0.04/0/0.34, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered 
to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post clani)

But emails are not send to list members. If I change it back to "file 
based db" (remove extend.py) mails are delivered.

I'm using Mailman version 2.1.9 on CentOS. There is nothing in the 
Mailman logs. I can see that queries in mysql are executed and I also 
tested connection to Mysql from python. Everything works, just mails are 
not send to members.

Can someone help me please?


-- 

Klemen Humerca
[www.humerca.com|klemen at humerca.com]

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Aug 31 20:07:26 2011
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 11:07:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + mysql
In-Reply-To: <4E5DF940.2090605@humerca.com>
Message-ID: <PC195201108311107260419b9acb5bd@Notebook-09>

Klemen Humerca wrote:
>
>But emails are not send to list members. If I change it back to "file 
>based db" (remove extend.py) mails are delivered.
>
>I'm using Mailman version 2.1.9 on CentOS. There is nothing in the 
>Mailman logs. I can see that queries in mysql are executed and I also 
>tested connection to Mysql from python. Everything works, just mails are 
>not send to members.


Do you mean the web admin interface works and lists members with the
extend.py file in place?

If there is nothing in the logs, you aren't looking at the right logs.
If this is the RedHat RPM packaged Mailman, logs are in
/var/log/mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From klemen at humerca.com  Wed Aug 31 21:15:38 2011
From: klemen at humerca.com (Klemen Humerca)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 21:15:38 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + mysql
In-Reply-To: <PC195201108311107260419b9acb5bd@Notebook-09>
References: <PC195201108311107260419b9acb5bd@Notebook-09>
Message-ID: <4E5E885A.3040502@humerca.com>

Yes, web admin interface works and extend.py is in the place 
(/var/lib/mailman/lists/list-name). And I've been checking logs in 
/var/log/mailman. I've added this line to mm_cfg.py:

MYSQL_MEMBER_DB_VERBOSE = "4"

and I've found this in error log:

Aug 31 13:03:14 2011 (16396) Uncaught runner exception: (1064, "You have 
an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your 
MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'TYPE=MyISAM' at 
line 24")
Aug 31 13:03:14 2011 (16396) Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 113, in _oneloop
     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 151, in _onefile
     mlist = self._open_list(listname)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 196, in _open_list
     mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=False)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 125, in __init__
     func(self)
   File "/var/lib/mailman/lists/clani/extend.py", line 6, in extend
     list._memberadaptor = MysqlMemberships(list)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MysqlMemberships.py", line 92, in __init__
     message = "MysqlMemberships " \
   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/MySQLdb/cursors.py", line 163, 
in execute
     self.errorhandler(self, exc, value)
   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/MySQLdb/connections.py", line 
35, in defaulterrorhandler
     raise errorclass, errorvalue
ProgrammingError: (1064, "You have an error in your SQL syntax; check 
the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right 
syntax to use near 'TYPE=MyISAM' at line 24")

Aug 31 13:03:14 2011 (16396) SHUNTING: 
1314788594.28422+2ce0db1b09dddbc0a14b8eaa0701fa568dcd9196
Aug 31 13:03:14 2011 qrunner(16396): Exception  
exceptions.AttributeError :  "MysqlMemberships instance has no attribute 
'conn'"  in <bound method MysqlMemberships.__del__ of 
<Mailman.MysqlMemberships.MysqlMemberships instance at 0x9e07d0c>>  ignored

It looks like there is something wrong in MysqlMemberships.py file? I've 
checked the file but there is not 'TYPE=MyISAM' in it....

Klemen Humerca

( klemen at humerca.com | www.humerca.com)


Dne 31.8.2011 20:07, pi?e Mark Sapiro:
> Klemen Humerca wrote:
>> But emails are not send to list members. If I change it back to "file
>> based db" (remove extend.py) mails are delivered.
>>
>> I'm using Mailman version 2.1.9 on CentOS. There is nothing in the
>> Mailman logs. I can see that queries in mysql are executed and I also
>> tested connection to Mysql from python. Everything works, just mails are
>> not send to members.
>
> Do you mean the web admin interface works and lists members with the
> extend.py file in place?
>
> If there is nothing in the logs, you aren't looking at the right logs.
> If this is the RedHat RPM packaged Mailman, logs are in
> /var/log/mailman.
>