[Mailman-Users] control mail distribution ..

Khalil Abbas khillo100 at hotmail.com
Mon Jan 24 08:35:52 CET 2011

ah yes, these to list owner notices I guess are unsubscribe notices.. for I 
turned on the "Should Mailman notify you, the list owner, when bounces cause 
a member to be unsubscribed?" to yes.. I tried to send test messages to 
these addresses, most of them are real subscribers that got kicked off and 
received my test messages, and some returned back for different reasons like 
mailbox full and mailbox has been closed and stuff like that ..

checking some random files in the /var/spool/mailman/bounces/*.pck I found :

This is the qmail-send program at ______________.\nI\'m afraid I wasn\'t 
able to deliver your message to the following addresses.\nThis is a 
permanent error; I\'ve given up. Sorry it didn\'t work out.\n\n<___________ 
(hotmail.fr address) >:\nConnected to but sender was 
rejected.\nRemote host said: 421 RP-001 Unfortunately, some messages from 
____________ weren\'t sent. Please try again. We have limits for how many 
messages can be sent per hour and per day. You can also refer to 
http://mail.live.com/mail/troubleshooting.aspx#errors.\nI\'m not going to 
try again; this message has been in the queue too long.

checking the error code 421 RP-001 on hotmail I found:

The mail server IP connecting to Windows Live Hotmail server has exceeded 
the rate limit allowed. Reason for rate limitation is related to IP/domain 
reputation. If you are not an email/network admin please contact your 
Email/Internet Service Provider for help.

so it is a rate limit no?

what can be done about this? it says something about ip/domain reputation, 
is it my domain's reputation or my service provider's relay server's 


-----Original Message----- 
From: Mark Sapiro
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 3:14 AM
To: Khalil Abbas ; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] control mail distribution ..

halil Abbas wrote:

>I also forgot to mention something.. I'm managing 57 lists on 18 servers..
>some are small lists and some are huge but the thing in common is that they
>all send a single message to their lists per day.. but I have put my own
>email address (khillo100 at hotmail dot com) in all of the 57 lists.. and
>everyday I receive between 30 and 40 emails from the lists but never 57!
>another thing in common is that all 18 servers never send directly, they go
>thru the same relay server ..

I agree that mails are getting bounced/dropped, but I can't begin to
guess why without seeing actual bounce messages and/or logs from the
relay server and/or logs from your local MTA if you use a local MTA
between Mailman and the relay server.

You may need to talk to the operators of the relay. I know you did and
they told you to rate limit your sending, but do they know that is the
problem, or is that a non-response?

If in fact you do have a local MTA which Mailman delivers to and which
then relays to the relay server, you can investigate rate limiting
there as discussed in the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/j4A9> to
which you have been previously referred.

Let us see some actual bounce messages. We know there are some because
bounce processing is removing subscribers, so what do they look like?

Also, have you followed up on my following suggestion to verify that
all the owner addresses are deliverable. I.e., what happened to the
nearly 3000 notices from BounceRunner that were indicated in the smtp
log you sent me.

>I also looked more closely at the smtp log you sent earlier. There are a
>huge number of mailman generated notices that originate from
>BounceRunner. All lists appear affected. I think these are unrecognized
>bounce notifications. I have suggested before that there may be a large
>amount of spam being sent to the LIST-bounces addresses, but there may
>also be a mail loop of some kind. I suggest that you make sure that each
>list's (including the 'mailman' list) owner attribute contains only
>deliverable addresses and that none of the LIST-* addresses are among
>them. Similarly, if there are any moderator addresses, they must be
>deliverable and must not include any LIST-* addresses and shouldn't
>duplicate any owner addresses for the same list.
>Also try sending an email to the LIST-owner addresses to verify such
>mail is received.

Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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